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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 14 JUNE 2017 VOL 43 NO 69

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PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 14th June, 2017

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

          HON. GONESE:  On a point of order Madam Speaker. There are housekeeping issues Madam Speaker. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What housekeeping issues?

          HON. GONESE:  As you know Madam Speaker, when we start Question Time, you inform us of the Ministers who have sought your leave.  Those are the housekeeping issues I am talking about so that we know which Ministers have been officially granted leave of absence.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I am being informed that someone has gone to collect the list from the administration office. 

          HON. MANGAMI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development – [HON. CHIBAYA:  Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Chibaya, what are you saying, what is wrong with you? 

          HON. MANGAMI:  What is Government policy regarding the mining claims which are under utilised?

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker.  The policy is that all claims, if possible, should be mined.  If there are claims that are idle, then members of the public are free to apply for those claims.  If they belong to companies that are not willing to release them, please engage the Ministry of Mines so that we assist you to utilise those claims.  Thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I am appealing to Hon. Members to listen when the Ministers are giving answers because there are mines all over which are lying idle so the answer will help every Hon. Member.

          *HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  What measures are in place to ensure that the youth can mine on such claims which are lying idle so that as a country we can continue having 3% royalties which can lead to us to getting better remuneration?  

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  You have repeated the same question Hon. Nduna.  He has advised you what to do as regards to the mines that are not being utilised, so you may not bring the same question.

          HON. MUDARIKWA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce.  Hon. Minister, can you inform the House on the progress and challenges the nation is facing on Bureau Veritas that is pre-inspection?  Thank you.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA):  I want to thank the Hon. Member for that pertinent question regarding the pre-inspection that is currently obtaining.  As we contracted Bureau Veritas - you will be aware that there is a Bill that was pronounced by the Head of State when we opened the 8th Parliament.  One of the 14 Bills was touching the issues of quality control.   While the Ministry is still in the process and at an advanced stage of coming up with the Bill to be tabled before Parliament, we contracted a company called Bureau Veritas  to do pre-inspection for all specified products that are destined here in Zimbabwe in a bid to already put into effect, the quality control systems.  This experience has seen us grow from what I could say teething problems to graduation, but not yet completely graduated.

          The experiences that we have had with Bureau Veritas include delays in clearances, communication with the implementers who are ZIMRA at our border post.  Be that as it may, we already have a hotline through e-mails and through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce where we attend to issues as they come.  The other bottleneck that we experience is that there are some products that we think should not be inspected all the time.  I will give an example of the inspection on the importation for items such as generators, once these are inspected and issued with a certificate, it has come to our knowledge that this should be done once to those companies that are supplying to avoid reputation where it is not necessary.  I thank you.

          *HON. ZEMURA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Ministry of Home Affairs.  What is Government policy concerning buildings that have been constructed in districts and most of them are just lying idle with some even being stolen.  In Murewa there are some offices for Birth registration that have not been completed in terms of construction.

*THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  You have not been clear Hon. Member.  What did you say is being destroyed?

*HON. ZEMURA:  Well, I am saying Government buildings are getting dilapidated because they are constructed in the district areas.  We do have offices for the Ministry of Home Affairs where people acquire their birth certificates from.  People are being soaked in rain.  They were constructed a long time ago by the Ian Smith regime.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. MGUNI):  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The buildings maintenance is under the Department of Public Works.  If they can complete those buildings, we will move our staff from those ancient buildings to the new ones.  I thank you.

*THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I believe you have understood the response, Hon. Member.  Please direct the question to the appropriate Minister.

+HON. MASUKU:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce.  What is Government doing in regard to reviving the industry in Bulawayo?  May I be informed as to when Government is going to come into the revival of industry in Bulawayo?  I thank you.

+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA):  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question in regards to the revival of industry in Bulawayo.  Let me say that it is important that the country should know that yes, we are not just looking at Bulawayo, but the entire country.  What is important is that Bulawayo, as we know, is the industrial hub of Zimbabwe.  What we are doing, as we planned to do just after our promotion at the trade fair this year, was to ensure that we see investors focus on Bulawayo.

As we speak right now, there are certain companies that are there in Bulawayo that have been revived.  I can give you an example such as Datlabs.  In 2013, when we inaugurated our focus on Bulawayo, Datlabs was operating at 18%, but at present, they are now operating at 78%.  We have other textile industries that have been revived, but that is not sufficient.  What I ask is that as the people are listening, those people in Bulawayo, if there are any projects that they have, they should try and ensure that as they do these businesses, they should approach us because we have certain funds that are there, that have been set aside for the revival of industries, especially those that benefit or come from Statutory Instrument Number 64 of 2016. 

If you come, you will be able to access the funding that has been set aside for the revival of such industries.  May I appeal that as I speak, Bulawayo has been designated as a special economic zone and we are focusing our minds and accept that Bulawayo should be looked at specifically, with a view to revive its industry.  I thank you.

HON. WATSON:  Could the Minister tell us what the delay is in implementing Special Economic Zones?

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order.  Can we have order in the House so that the Minister understands what is being said? 

HON. WATSON:  In the spirit of developing industry in Bulawayo and answering Hon. Masuku’s question, could the Minister please inform us what the delay is in implementing Special Economic Zones, especially for Bulawayo?  Thank you.

HON. MABUWA:  Regarding the programming of the role out of the Special Economic Zones, I would like to say that the Special Economic Zones Act or the programme itself does not contain only the implementation of manufacturing concerns.  It concerns other Ministries or other sectors such that it is being overseen by the Ministry responsible for investment promotion and macro economic development framework.  So, as the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, we are part of the whole role out strategy, the manufacturing concerns in Bulawayo will benefit out of this.

The programme is still with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Ministry responsible for Micro-Economic Development Framework, but as far as we are concerned, we are already ready and a framework will be announced by those responsible Ministries and then we will play our own part, as the Minis try of Industry and Commerce.  I thank you.

HON. MLISWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My supplementary question is on the resuscitation of industry.  It seems it is only targeted to Bulawayo.  What is Government’s position on other industries?  For example, in Norton we have got industries too which need to be resuscitated like the Central African Batteries which equally can enjoy from Statutory Instrument Number 64.  In terms of the money that they are going to avail, how much money is there to resuscitate these industries?

HON. MABUWA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I know that I used a vernacular language that might not be privy to all of us, but in my introduction when I responded in Ndebele, I said we look at the entire nation, but I am going to focus on Bulawayo as the question has come, as I was really questioned about Bulawayo, but as the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, we are looking at the entire country.  I am now perhaps going to withhold what I can say about Norton because the next person will stand up and say what about the next town and so forth and so on, but I think it is the right of Members of Parliament to know what is happening in their own constituencies regarding the industries and our offices are open. 

Now that Norton has been exemplified and you said that this was the last follow up question, I will touch a little bit on industries that we have resuscitated in Norton which include horticulture and the value addition of fruits that are being manufactured in Bulawayo.  There has been a more than US$10 million investment in Bulawayo that was invested by Schweppes and then the batteries manufacturing – we have a battery manufacturing, rightfully as indicated by the Hon. Member. Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016 - the batteries manufacturers have benefited out of that and we have already resuscitated companies here.  If the one which is based in Norton is not yet benefiting out of the resuscitated companies that are enjoying the supply of batteries in here. They can come in, see us and we discuss what their problem is regarding the reasons they are not manufacturing the batteries here in Zimbabwe.  I thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  There is a Land Cruiser ABE-3460, sticker number 0268 should be removed on the Speaker’s parking bay in the car park.  Hon. Mliswa, please go and remove your vehicle – [HON. MLISWA:  I am sorry.  I thought the Speaker is at the PB today.] -  Do you become the Speaker when the Speaker is at the PB?

*HON. CHISOROCHENGWE:  My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs.  What is Government policy with regards to police officers that are abusing people who would have given complaints?

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. MGUNI):  The police has – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, can we have order. 

HON. MGUNI: The police have to give good service to the nation.  That is why they have got various departments like the Liaison Committees, Crime, Special Investigations, Law and Order and so on.  When a person comes, there is a procedure that the police should receive you, get your complaint and forward it to the people who must actually give that service, listen to the complaint and make follow ups.  The complainant has the right to follow up into a higher step.  Let us say it is a district, if it is not done correctly, you have got the right to go to the province.  If they are failing, you can reach the national level.

*HON. MAHOKA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.  What is Government policy as regards the issue of mining permits because once people have paid for these permits they are not accessing the mining permits within a short space of time.  They are waiting for about a year.  What measures are you going to take to ensure that the process does not take a long time?

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO):  Mining permits have to go through four offices for signatures which are at provincial level, Mining Affairs Board, responsible Minister and then the President’s office.  Those that are signed at provincial level should be quickly processed within a short space of time.  For those that come to the Mining Affairs Board, it meets once in two months but if there are a lot of permits to be processed, it may take a longer period.  Those that go to the Minister coming from the Mining Affairs Board, the Mining Board will have recommended to the Minister that the permits be issued, the others may have been turned down and these may take longer.  Those that have to be signed at the President’s office also take time because they have to go through Cabinet.  There are few documents that go to the President’s Office and these pertain to strategic minerals but they should not take a long time.

*HON. MAHOKA:  Hon. Deputy Minister, you have answered the question but you have not stated the stipulated period.  Is it a year or three months because it is taking us a year for such papers to be processed?  How long does this process take?

*HON. F. MOYO:  It will be difficult for me to state the period because it varies from one province to another.  If one were to send their papers to Mashonaland East which is not endowed with minerals, it will take about a month.  If it goes to Mashonaland West Province, Matabeleland South or Midlands, it can take three to four months.

In our department, we also have transport challenges and this might cause delays in going to the ground with surveyors to peg the mines.  As a result of that, we will be able to timeously issue these permits.  We have few surveyors and few vehicles.  Although we are facing these problems at the moment, it should not take you more than a year to have the permit processed.

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  As a Ministry, how much time do you think this process should take?

*HON. F. MOYO:  We envisage that permits that are processed at provincial level must not exceed three months.  I would like Hon. Members to understand what happens during other processes. Once an application has been made to get a mining permit, one has to wait for a month to ensure that there is no one who has an objection to the claim that you would want so that the interested parties can also raise their objection.  So it is also taken into account when an application is pending.  If you have your own surveyors and those that are on the ground, you should peg and put notices that show that you would want to prospect on the particular mining area.

*HON. NDUNA:  For those whose delays have been caused by your departments, they will not be denied permits; what measures have you put in place to ensure that these people are not victimised or arrested by the police whilst they are waiting for their permits to be processed?

*HON. F. MOYO:  If papers have not been processed and you have no permit to mine, you should not go to the ground and start mining – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Nduna, have you heard the response?

HON. NDUNA:  Yes maam.

HON. CHAKONA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services.  In her absence, I will direct the question to the Deputy Minister.  I would like to know Government policy – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]-

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can we have order please.

HON. CHAKONA: I would like to know Government policy with regards to drought relief food.  When is the Ministry going to stop or is it continuing distributing drought relief food?  – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order! Please let us give the Minister a chance to respond.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thank Hon. Chakona for that question – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjection.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Zwizwai, please.

          HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Madam Speaker, the food mitigation programme was in four parts.  There is the first part which deals with vulnerable people.  That programme will always be ongoing because that is dependent on the current registers which are there and for as long as vulnerable people will always be there.  So, it is a social protection net which is there.  The second mitigation was targeted towards the drought situation that was coming through.  Now that we are expecting a bumper harvest, that position has since changed; we ceased that programme last month.  We are now working on the new ZIMVAC assessment/livelihood assessment to see that the people who had good harvest and people who did not have good harvest, we see the assistance if at all it is required that we can come up with. 

          Other programmes like the school feeding programmes are ongoing and assisting the vulnerable in general but the generality of the people who had been affected by the drought, that has stopped Madam Speaker.

          HON. S. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker

          Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having passed through the Chair and the member speaking.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga.

          HON. S. CHIDAKWA:  I would like the Minister to clarify who are vulnerable people because three quarters of our people are now vulnerable since they are not employed.  I thank you.

          HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Madam Speaker, vulnerable people come in four categories.  The first category is the elderly, the aged.  The second category is the chronically ill, we have the disabled on that classification and we have child headed families under the vulnerable sector.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *HON. ADV. CHAMISA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My supplementary question is - as I was in my communal home, I saw elderly women working for food for work projects.  They were filling gulleys and others were cutting down trees.  Is this not slavery for the aged? - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You have heard my question?  Is this permissible in terms of our Constitution? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.  Sometimes we waste a lot of time making a lot of noise and it deprives a lot of members from asking questions. 

          *HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister as a supplementary concerning the elderly aged between 65 or even 70 years.  Is that within the rights enshrined in the Constitution because the elderly should be given these rights that are in the Constitution?  Are we not violating the Constitution and are we not being cruel to the elderly?  Is this not slavery in our own country?  I want to understand what Government policy is because it is quite painful for the elderly to work in Government or community programmes.  I thank you.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, your question is not emanating from the original question.

          HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is on the part of the vulnerable – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, can we have order please.  The first question had to do with the vulnerable, the elderly that were cutting down trees and those that are aged and are at work.  That is not emanating from the original question.

          *HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Please, do not be concerned Madam Speaker.

          *HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thank Hon. Chamisa for his question, a Pastor and an Advocate – [HON. ZWIZWAI: We are not in church too.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Zwizwai, I do not want to send you out, that is too much.  I think you must behave yourself as a Member of Parliament.

          *HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE:  The duty of selecting the vulnerable members of the community is entrusted with the community.  When we come up with food for work programmes, it is people who are able-bodied who can work.  The elderly would have been screened by ward, district and provincial committees who then put these people in categories that certain persons are able to work and others not.

          The committee includes the elders in the communities, church elders, the traditional healers and Social Welfare officers meet and decide on those that are able to work and those that are unable to do so.  As a result, some of these people will be placed on food for work programmes.  If Hon. Chamisa has people who are working who are not capable of working, you should inform us so that we can rectify that anomaly in order that the member cannot be on food for work.  I thank you.

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My point of order is, I seek the Hon. Minister to clarify whether as Government policy, old age as a group of vulnerable people is defined by age or it is left open for the communities to determine looking at the physical aspect of the individual.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is what he was explaining.

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, I think in terms of the law Hon. Speaker, there should be an age limit that defines a person’s old age.  So, we want the Hon. Minister to clarify that point.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is another way of bringing in a supplementary question. I had said that was the last supplementary.  You can bring it as a separate question that will be fine.

          *HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  I would like to find out what intervention you are going to come up with as a result of buses that are killing people on the roads.  In April, we lost a number of people when a bus caught fire.  This month, there was the Nyamakate bus disaster. What measures is Government putting in place as regards the transport sector, buses in particular?         

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADANHA): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member who has just asked a very important question, Hon. Nyamupinga.  Let me start by conveying my deepest condolences to the bereaved – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Wanga usati waita namanje?] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, I want to send you out today.

HON. MADANHA: I also wish all the injured….

*HON. NYAMUPINGA: On a point of order.  Madam Speaker, I asked my question in Shona.

*HON. MADANHA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  First and foremost, I would like to thank Hon. Nyamupinga for her question, which is pertinent.  I would want to express my condolences to those who lost their relatives in this accident.  Those in hospital; I wish them a speedy recovery.

Madam Speaker, the issue of road accidents is painful to everyone.  As Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, we are deeply concerned that we had such serious accidents within a short space of time.  Firstly, some accidents are caused by the condition of the vehicle.  Secondly, accidents can be caused by the poor condition of the road.  We have just experienced incessant rains and we have a lot of potholes - that may cause accidents.  However, the most contributory factor to accidents is human error. 

We have the Vehicle Inspection Department which inspects all the vehicles that are on the roads.  In terms of the roads themselves, I believe all Hon. Members are seeing the work that we are doing to ensure that we repair these roads by patching potholes.  We had a programme which was officiated by the President of this country since all our roads were in a state of disaster.  We embarked on a pothole filling exercise and we are now on the second phase to properly construct these roads so that we have good roads, which might reduce accidents.

Since I earlier on pointed out that our major problem is that the drivers are flouting the road rules.  If you make reference to the bus that was involved in this fatal accident, we had reports that the driver could have been excessively speeding.  There are also reports that there was a tyre burst.  Yes, accidents occur; it is true that we may not have zero percent in terms of accidents - but we can minimise the number of accidents occurring.  As Government, we would want all drivers to be competently trained and should have proper documentation, because some of these drivers have fraudulently acquired their drivers’ licences. 

As Government, we are mostly concerned about what happens once there is an accident; those that die and those that are injured.  We understand that most of these people are uninsured.  The ambulances and fire brigade are reluctant to respond because they are afraid of the expenses because they may not be paid for services.  When one is injured, they would go to hospital.  They will need drugs and the like, but who will pay for that because most of these people do not have medical aid cover.  This is the greatest challenge that we are facing as a Ministry at present.

Since last week we have been going round all the  provinces, dealing with the issue of the Road Accidents Fund, which is a programme we are saying as a country let us see how best we can assist the people if they are involved in an accident.  It is a plan that we intend to come up with.  As Government we would ensure that we look into the condition of the roads, human error, drivers’ licencing issues as there are allegations that some of these drivers are not properly licenced.  I thank you.

Almost all Hon. Members having stood to pose supplementary questions.

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order.  The first supplementary question should come from the person who asked the question.

*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Here we are talking about an old lady who is from the communal areas.  We are talking of an old lady who is not insured, who was on a journey and was involved in an accident and unfortunately died.  What policy does Government have in place?  A lot of women died in that bus disaster at Nyamakate.  We understand that most women have extended families whom they look after.  What is Government policy regarding such incidences? We only hear that Government provides coffins worth $200, for each of the victims.

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe they are still looking into such issues.  May you bring to this House what you would have found so that we can see how they can deal with the issues – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Member, you have to behave yourself. 

  HON. MLISWA: On a point of order.  Madam Speaker, this case is a national disaster.  It is only proper, in the interest of time that the Ministry concerned issues a statement, thereafter Hon. Members can ask questions.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think I support what Hon. Mliswa is saying because we are going to spend the whole afternoon talking about this issue.  Hon. Minister, I think you have to go and prepare that Ministerial Statement concerning the Hon. Member.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, can we have order?

HON. CHIRISA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is, as he gives his Ministerial Statement, Government gave assistance, was the bus insured?  We want to find out what the issue is.  Secondly,...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Those are the same issues that will be incorporated in the Statement. 

HON. CHIMWAMUROMBE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Hon. Made...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Made is not in the House Hon. Member.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development, Hon. Fred Moyo.  My question is – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order in the House.

HON. HOLDER:  What is Government policy regarding the chrome claims that are being distributed from the Ministry of Ministry of Mines?  What policy have they put in place to distribute these chrome claims evenly?

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO):  Thank you very much for the question.  The policy for distribution of claims is that Government acquired 50 percent of claims that were being held by private companies.  We are going to distribute those based on claims given to smelters, claims given to the generality of our citizens and claims that will be retained by Government.  On claims given to citizens, they are going to be broken into groups of individuals such as women, youths as well as special groups.  Special groups involve the disabled as well as war veterans.  That is the policy at the moment.

HON. PHIRI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I heard the Deputy Minister saying, we are going to but there are people right now on the ground.  Has the programme started or it is going to start, because there are people right now who have claimed all over the place.  I thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is the question Hon. Phiri?

HON. PHIRI:  I am saying, I heard the Minister saying we are going to start but there are people who are on the ground now.

HON. F. MOYO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  There are people who are on the ground now because they were already working on claims.  They will stay on those claims until we officially give them their certificates.  The distribution is only starting today going forward but those who are on claims because they had tributes, they were already working there and will stay on the ground.  Those who have positioned themselves unofficially will be removed from the ground that they have occupied illegally.

HON. HOLDER:  The Minister has mentioned that the programme has started today.  We want to find out whether payments are being made to individuals or they are made to the Ministry of Mines directly because unscrupulous people are collecting money from the people.  Are they from the Ministry or not?  [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKR:  Hon. Members, we want to hear what the Hon. Member is saying.  Hon. Murai, what is your problem?

HON. F. MOYO:  I am sorry Madam Speaker, I did not get the question quite well.

HON. HOLDER:  Madam Speaker, I heard the Minister saying that the programme is starting today and what I want to find out is, payments are being claimed by the people who claim to be from the Ministry of Mines, is it legal.  Are these people that are on the ground, collecting money from people from the Ministry of Mines or they are unscrupulous people that have opened offices and are asking individuals to pay for these claims?  There is going to be disaster as far as I see it.

HON. F. MOYO:  All claims will be issued from head office from the Ministry in Harare.  Anybody who is being given claims on the ground at provinces - paying money, it is illegal and I am not sure who is doing it.  All claims will be issued from the Ministry’s Headquarters and certificates are then sent to provinces.  Nobody should be paying for claims from the provinces.

*HON. KAUNDIKIZA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Minister Dokora.  In the rural areas, there are secondary schools that are doing agriculture but they do not have teachers to instruct those subjects.  What is Government policy as regards staffing in such institutions?  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA):  Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  The Government policy is that we should have teachers in schools who instruct in such subjects in our country.   I thank you.

HON. MURAI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My supplementary question is that, Hon. Minister, in primary schools, according to the new curriculum, Agriculture as a subject has become examinable yet there are no teachers, textbooks and other resources to that effect.  How are we going to do it when we do not have these in place? 

HON. DR. DOKORA: Madam Speaker, it is true what the Hon. Member has stated that agriculture has become part of the new curriculum of our nation from Grade Three onwards. It is also pertinent to note that it is not a case that is universal, that there are no teachers who are able to undertake that task. We have in the past indicated that the deployment of teachers we are making now relates to the specialisation that the teachers did go through during their college days. Further, we have collaboration with the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that there is wholesome and holistic treatment of this area of the new curriculum. I thank the Hon. Member for the concern he has expressed.

*HON. KAUNDIKIZA: Madam Speaker, whilst the Minister has responded but I am saying at times the situation is better in the urban areas. In rural areas, we do not have such teachers. The children do not have anyone to instruct them. What is Government’s policy with regards to that issue?

*HON. DR. DOKORA: Once again, I thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. I am saying that Government’s position is that we are not responsible for staffing of teachers. We do not invite them and say we will pay them – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There is the employer who should authorise me to employ. I should have the number of teachers that I require. Since last year, I have been requesting for a specific number of teachers, 7 000 in particular, but there is a Government policy that I will be given 2 300 initially. I am waiting for the 2 300 to be released by the employer, the Public Service Commission. I am still waiting for such a decision to happen. I thank you.

*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The problem that I have Hon. Speaker is that the answer that has been given by the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora is as if his Ministry is in South Africa and the Ministry that does the hiring of people is in Mozambique or South Africa. They are both Cabinet Ministers. How do you introduce subjects before you know how you are going to acquire the teachers for the particular subjects?

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I  have understood Hon. Dr. Dokora’s response. He is merely saying you are posing the question to the wrong person. He is not responsible for the recruitment of teachers. If the Minister …

*HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that before the Minister introduces a subject, he should talk to the people that hire and those that release the funds so as to ensure that he is allowed to hire and that there will be funding. After such discussions, then he can introduce a subject. It is like saying I will impregnate you and you will have five children before proposing. Put the first things first. Propose to the woman and she must accept your proposal, and then get married and the rest is history.

*HON. DR. DOKORA: What Hon. Maridadi is now saying about proposals and children is not pertinent as regards our present circumstances that I should first have the funding and the teachers – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I was listening when you were posing your question Hon. Member. Allow me the chance to answer you in full. So, once all these things have been put in place and there is 100% preparation, then we should start the ball rolling. As I respond to the question, may I pose a question? Would anyone go to work so that they will only think about everything that needs to be done at the workplace when they are at home before they go to work? Even this country …

HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The long and short of it is that the Hon. Member’s supplementary question is whether there is cohesion and coherence in governance when the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education comes up with certain policies to introduce a new curriculum, subjects and so forth. Is there that cohesion within Cabinet itself so that there is complementarity in the sense that the Ministry responsible for employment of civil servants is aware so that they make adequate provisions for the teachers to be employed and that is the question which requires an answer?  The Hon. Minister is hedging and fudging, and trying to avoid the question. That is what the nation wants to know whether there is that cohesion in Cabinet. I think it is important for that to be responded to for the benefit of the nation.

*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: My question goes to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. In your new curriculum for Primary and Secondary Education, you said beginning 2018, there will be ‘O’ and ‘A’ Level examinations that will take into consideration course work up until the last examination. How are the people that are supplementing their subjects going to be assessed.  Will they not be able to write examinations?  I thank you.

          *THE MINISTER OF PRPIMAARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA):  Thank you so much Madam Speaker and I thank Hon. Chinanzvavana for such an important question which I will use to give an explanation to bolster what came up during the time we met with the Members of Parliament at a workshop.  Those new curricula are the ones that are going to start the issue of continuous assessments based on a weekly basis and the outcomes. 

The idea is that this continuous assessment should be used but it depends on the weight that is going to be given to each specific subject which may vary.  As they write their final examination, part of the course work will also be used but those that are not being continuously assessed are not going to be affected.  They will simply go and write their examination and the same thing would happen the following year without the issue of course work.  So, they are free to keep on supplementing until they obtain the required subjects.  I thank you.

          *HON. NDUNA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education.  Yes, we have understood about the issue of examinations - what measures have you put in place for headmasters and schools not to withhold examinations of pupils who would not have paid their school fees so that the school children can continue with their education?  I thank you.

          *HON. DR. DOKORA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I thank the Member who has posed the question as a supplementary.  As a Ministry, we expect that there will be two years in which people can pay for examination fees.  For primary level, they will start in Grade 6 and in secondary level; they will start paying their examination fees in Form 3 so that when they write their examinations, they will not be owing the examination board.  That is the first point.

          Secondly, we are pioneers or we first said in 2013 that the person should not be disadvantaged and we urged parents to have payment plans with their schools.  There is no free education and parents should be disabused from that notion.  As a Ministry, we urge parents to pay the necessary levies to our schools so that the teachers can work well with their children.  That will also help the children to write their examinations without any burden.  We should not get to a stage where the child has completed his or her education but they have not yet fully paid for their levy.  Why are we in such a position?  I thank you.

          *HON. MLISWA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Sport and Recreation.  First and foremost, congratulations for the win by the warriors but in terms of the national policy, I congratulate him for coming with that.  What does it say as regards the sponsorship of the national team?  At one time there was Mr. Chivhayo and now there is Mr. Magaya.  Bearing in mind that Prophet Magaya raises funds from the church, if the people do not go to church, what lasting solution have you put in place to the funding of the national team?  I thank you.

          *THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON. HLONGWANE):  Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you Hon. Mliswa for the question that you have posed.  Government policy is that Government funds the national teams but we encourage the corporate sector who would like to be associated with sport to also come in.  Because of our economy, there are various corporates which come in various forms and we would want to thank them for coming forward to ensure that sports progresses.

We find it even in our constituencies that business people are also involved to ensure that sports continue going forward.  ZIFA has a relationship with Mr. Magaya where the national team is accommodated in very good premises and we are quite grateful.  There is no problem.  This is not a contradiction to Government policy that Government funds national teams.  Where there is private capital to assist, we accept that. I thank you.

          *HON. MLISWA:  My question is about sustainability.  If Mr. Magaya were to wake up angry and chase them away from his good hotel,  that will disturb the preparations of the players in terms of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation.  What should be done is - we also heard that he has taken Mr. Pasuwa’s motor vehicle.  It has been repossessed.  Is there a written contract or a concept that is used or a contract that says for five years, he is going to be supporting the national team so that the players remain motivated and they will continue winning?  I thank you.

          *HON. HLONGWANE:  My response is that it is not only Mr. Magaya but even a corporate company can be angry.  On the issue of sustainability in that regard, I agree with Hon. Mliswa.  It should be situated in the contract.  There is a difference between a donation and a sponsorship.  A sponsorship simply means that the organisation has agreed to put money in sport because of the values of the organisation and what is being done in sport.  There is a matching of values which is sponsorship.  If there is a sponsorship deal, it will be signed or deduced into by a contract because those that are giving their money expect certain things to be done.  We will urge ZIFA to ensure that there may be a contract with Mr. Magaya, that we will accept and we have no problems with that.  I thank you.

          *HON. WADYAJENA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  We want to ask the Minister of Sport and Recreation that, since Mr. Magaya gives money to football supporters, why is he forcing these players to go and pray in his church and they are given anointed oils and anointing waters and so forth.  How does this happen?  Is it part of the sponsorship package or these are the conditions of the sponsorship package or they are hoodwinking the players?  I thank you. - [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):  Order, order.  Hon. Mutseyami, you are an Hon. Member and if you are happy, do not use your legs.  Do you clap with your legs – no, do not do that.

HON. MUTSEYAMI: I never did that.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  You do not use your legs to clap.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Mr. Speaker Sir, no, I did not do that.  It is not...

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, you sit down.  I was watching you.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  No, no.  You saw it wrongly.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, I may ask you to go out.  I was watching you.

HON:  MUTSEYAMI:  For what reason?

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  You were making noise.

*THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON. HLONGWANE):  Hon. Speaker Sir, our Constitution says there is freedom of worship.  Each member has a right to worship whatever they believe in.  Players said they were not forced to go and worship in Mr. Magaya’s church.  That allegation which has been raised by the Hon. Member needs to be investigated.  If there is any coercion and if there is such coercion, we will look into it and see what steps could be taken in line with our Constitution, but what we know is that they voluntarily went there.  Every Zimbabwean has a right to freedom of worship.

*HON. WADYAJENA:  Mr. Speaker, he did not properly respond to the question because in the newspapers, the coach Mr. Mapeza said he ran away and Mr. Magaya said he would withdraw the support.  It would mean that he left and he could not go there after the team had won.  I want them to investigate on such issues – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, order please.

*HON. CHIBAYA:  Thank you very much Mr. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni.  Minister Mzembi was concerned by the issue of road blocks and that it is doing a disservice to tourism.  What are you doing as a Ministry to ensure that you remove the numerous road blocks so that it will not disturb the tourism sector?  I thank you.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. MGUNI):  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  Two weeks ago, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe chaired a meeting that resolved how to bring down road blocks.  Therefore, we went down to get a plan on how to bring them down.  Last week, I articulated in this Parliament correctly to say, it is not easy to balance good quality service versus compliance because we need not to loosen our security while we provide services.  Therefore, we have now got a standing document that will reduce road blocks. 

However, as the question was raised previously here, we need VID to come to the integration of the new system so that police can use the gadgets just to capture and quickly read and allow the vehicles to move faster than we do now.  At the moment, we are compelled to do a lot of work in a road block to check the fitness of a vehicle which is the VID’s responsibility, to check whether the licences are valid which is RMT responsibility and to check whether the drivers are travelling well.  If it is integrated, we can even calculate as police the time the driver left and the time the driver arrived at the road block; calculate the speed using a computer and then it will be free flow for the tourists.  I thank you Mr. Speaker.

*HON. ENG. MUDZURI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, Hon. Members.

*HON. ENG. MUDZURI:  My supplementary question to the Minister is with regards to the reduction of the number of road blocks.  What is your policy as regards to court judgements that the police should always have a Form 265 and should not force people to pay spot fines?  What have you done concerning the issue of having the Form 265 so that the people can be able to be ticketed?  What are you doing to reduce this issue of spot fines in a time when people are having difficulties in having hard cash from the bank?

HON. MGUNI:  There are gadgets...

THE TEPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister, are you quite clear with the question?

HON. MGUNI:  Yes, thank you Mr. Speaker.  Presently 500 gadgets which will actually raise the invoices have been deployed into the country, into traffic stations because we will never see a manually written invoice because it is only what he is articulating that is giving us a problem.  Also, we are eradicating corruption where that machine must detect the system, the offence and actually eject an invoice which is corresponding with the offence, not from a human error or a human’s mind.  This is where we are shifting now. 

However, if there is a system that the court says we must not do, we have also the right to go and oppose that system.  Why - because we have got reasons why we want to use a system that will maintain POSA in this country.  At the moment, we opposed that because we want to use a system which will control vehicles.  We cannot just allow anything that is intruding to our security to be implemented.  We have to balance it for the country.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, order.

*HON. ENG. MUDZURI:  My supplementary question is that whilst you want to come up with these new measures, the courts have come up with judgements that if a person has no spot fine, he should be given a Form 265 and they proceed.  At ten road blocks you are stopped for indicators and asked to pay a fine of US$10 when there is no Form 265.  After you have gone past, you are being asked to pay monies that are not being receipted.  We are saying, put that form into use so that if I do not have the money, I could even go to court.  Once you have put these measures that you are talking about, then you can bring in your gadgets that can then test these issues.

HON. MGUNI:  Hon. Speaker Sir, when I ended my answer I said if something has been ruled in court and we see that it is compromising our security systems, we have the right to oppose.  However, let me explain this, I stood up to explain to the Hon. Member – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Now, let him explain Hon. Members.  You raised a question and you are now talking.

HON. MGUNI:  Let me articulate correctly to him.  Number one, remember I mentioned here that the registration of our vehicles in Zimbabwe needs to be integrated and computerised.  Most of the people that are stopped at road blocks for fines – you will find that the driver does not have a licence; the car he is driving is not his and the owner is not known.  If you let that person to go and pay at a police station, how will he pay?  He is not known.  The address and vehicle do not correspond.  You cannot be always doing what he wants.  We need to enforce the law and see that the person pays – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order.  Order please!  Order!  Order. 

          HON. ZWIZWAI:  I move that the time for questions without Notice be extended.

          HON. KWARAMBA:  I object.

          HON. MUNENGAMI:  On a point of order…

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, resume your seat!  Hon. Members, a ruling was made here on these points of order and I am not going to entertain any point of order.   

*HON. MUNENGAMI:  With all due respect, I am not disputing what you have ruled but we have a problem in this Parliament that there are Members that contribute for the sake of wanting to be seen to have been speaking and objecting to meaningful debates or questions.

If we were to ask the Honourable who objected why she has objected – she does not have a valid reason on why she has objected.  It is high time that something is done because there is no reason for the objection.  Where are we going? We should be doing something in order to develop our country.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  You have made your point. Please take your seat?

*HON. MUNENGAMI:  What is the reason for her objection?  We should be serious with our work – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  You are talking and I am talking.  Enough is enough.  Do not stretch me too much, otherwise I will send you out.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

HON. GONESE:  Mr. Speaker, if you notice, question number 1 was deferred from the 15th of March and as you are aware, when it comes to written questions, they can give answers to their colleagues or Deputy Ministers who can respond on behalf of the Minister of Finance. It is unlike questions without notice on policy but it is not acceptable on written questions because we are now in June; almost three months down the line and we have got a question which is continuously being deferred  –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  You may continue.

HON. GONESE:  My point is, when it comes to written questions, answers can be given to colleagues or other Ministers.  I have already given examples of other Ministers who were here in Parliament who can be furnished by Ministry officials with the written responses.  I submit that it is not acceptable to have a situation where a question is continuously being deferred in circumstances where colleagues can respond on their behalf. 

 I want this to be noted by the Chair so that the relevant Minister is advised to take heed of what I have said so that this august House and the people of Zimbabwe are afforded the opportunity to know the answers to important questions which would have been posed by Members of Parliament. 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Gonese.  That is a point taken.  We will liaise with the Minister.  This has been on the Order Paper for too long – since March.  I am sure something will be done next week.  

HON. MAJOME:  On a point of privilege, I am surprised that the Order Paper indicates that question 8 has been deferred since 3 May.  In my recollection, it has been actually longer than that and I also rise to express concern at the way that Ministers are not bothering to come.  I therefore seek your assistance in getting Ministers to answer these questions. 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Majome.  That is a point taken too.

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

DOUBLE ALLOCATIONS OF FARMS

20. HON. CHIWA asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement:

a)   to explain how the Ministry would manage the double allocations of farms in cases where original owners who were once evicted from the farms have since been given permission to return to their original farms which are already occupied following the administrative court’s ruling that the Minister does not have powers to withdraw offer letters.

b)    further explain to the House what other pieces of land such farmers are entitled to considering that this is now a second withdrawal.

c)    to explain how the Government would manage the investors’ confidence as the administrative court ruling would effectively reverse the agreement and investment surety that was reached at the Bi – National Conference between Zimbabwe and South Africa in November, 2016.

       THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA):  a) The administrative court’s judgment in the case of Lowveld Sugarcane Association was to the effect that the Minister has no powers to withdraw an offer letter in terms of the Agricultural Land Settlement Act [Chapter 20:01].  However, that decision was in our view erroneous as there have been numerous High Court judgments that state that the Minister of Lands can withdraw offer letters in terms of the offer letter itself.  The process is administrative.  As a result, an appeal has been noted in the Supreme Court against the judgment.  The Minister of Lands is the one that administers the Agricultural Land Settlement Act as well as the gazetted Lands Consequential Provisions Act [Chapter 20:28] which provides for offer letters.  In any event, the judgment will not lead to double allocations as the former owners who were evicted and complied with such evictions are stopped by law.  The judgment does not apply retrospectively.

       b)   I would respectfully refer you to the answer I gave above.  Be that as it may, the said farmers are not entitled to any alternative land as their offer letters were lawfully withdrawn.  There is therefore no second withdrawal to talk about.

           c)   As I have stated above, the judgment of the administrative court has since been appealed against.  However, investor confidence will remain as the move to actually withdraw the offer letters of the beneficiaries was necessitated as a result of the Bi-national Conference between Zimbabwe and South Africa.  Our investors will therefore be re-assured by the Zimbabwean Government’s action in withdrawing the said offer letters.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HON. MATUKE:  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2 to 5 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

HON. GONESE:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON. RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Five Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.

 

 

 

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National Assembly Hansard NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 14 JUNE 2017 VOL 43 NO 69