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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 16 NOVEMBER 2016 VOL 43 NO 12

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday16th November, 2016

The National Assembly met at a Quarter- past Two o’clock p.m.

 PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

THE HON. SPEAKER’S RULING

ALLEGED DEATH THREATS RECEIVED BY MDC –T MEMBERS

          THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that subsequent to Hon. Chamisa’s submission on alleged death threats received by the MDC-T Members of Parliament, the Chair rules that there exists a prima face case of contempt of Parliament in the alleged threats and that the matter be referred to a Privileges Committee to be appointed by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders (SRO), in line with Standing Order Number 24.

          Accordingly, the Committee on SRO resolved to appoint the following members to the Privileges Committee:-

Hon. Chief Charumbira –Chairperson; Hon. Mpariwa, Hon. Ziyambi, Hon. Chimanikire, Hon. Chakona and Hon. Mlilo.  The Committee on SRO further approved the following terms of reference for the Privileges Committee.

(i)                          To investigate the source of the alleged threatening

 messages;

(ii)                       To determine whether the said messages directly or indirectly

over influence constitute contempt of Parliament and;

(iii)                    Make appropriate recommendations and report to the House

 by 31st March, 2017.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER

EXTENSION OF REPORTING PERIOD –CHARLES KUWAZA

THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to further inform the House that the Committee on SRO has granted an extension of the reporting period for the Privileges Committee dealing with Mr. Charles Kuwaza’s case, from the initial deadline of 31st October, 2016 to 28th February, 2017.

MATTER OF PRIVILEGE

DISRUPTIONS OF PUBLIC HEARINGS

        HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I want to raise a matter of privilege in terms of Standing Order, Rule Number 68, paragraph (d) and in terms of Rule Number 69.  I rise to bring to your attention some very unparliamentary behaviour that occurred during public hearings of a petition on elections that was submitted to the House.  I rise because it is extremely unusual and dangerous for Members of Parliament to be attacked while they are conducting Parliamentary business. 

        I say this because I was personally injured in Mutare by attacks and my colleagues in my Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs were also attacked.  We also experienced disruptions in Mutare, Mutoko and Bulawayo.  In terms of the Privileges and Immunities Act of Parliament, as a Member of Parliament, and my colleague Members of Parliament are entitled to be protected by the laws of Zimbabwe and not be subjected to harm or threats of harm while they are conducting Parliamentary business.  There are also members of staff of Parliament who are also in that regard threatened.

        I realise that it is a trend that appears to be increasing; that appears to be continuing unabated.  In Mutare, in particular in Dangamvura, we were attacked by members of public that were trying to stop the hearing and I was injured on my left wrist by members of the public who came and tried to seize from me written submissions from the public that were trying to rob me of those submissions.  As a Member of this august House, I personally find it unacceptable that I should be subjected to such harm for conducting my national duty and for something that I was voted for by the people of Harare West and also appointed by this august House to conduct business, as well as a member of the Committee.

        I say this because in terms of Section 141 of the Constitution, this Parliament now has a constitutional obligation to make its proceedings accessible to the public.  In Mutare, there was a member of the public who was deaf and who had taken the trouble of bringing a sign language interpreter to proceed with the hearings.  Mr. Speaker Sir, because of the disruptions, violence  and the attacks on myself and Hon. Members, particularly Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga  and Hon. Gonese, and also resulting in Hon. Katsiru having to intervene to rescue Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga  and shepherd her out of the room the Committee will never know what that person who was deaf and who took the trouble to provide interpretation services that Parliament cannot provide, up to now I worry as the Chairperson, I do not know whether they are safe.  We will not ever know what they had come to tell the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee to do.

        I rise also Mr. Speaker Sir, because I am particularly disconcerted because there appears to Members of this august House who appear to be involved in this violence and disruptions that are occurring at public hearings that are conducted in terms of the Constitution and Standing Rules and Orders. 

I want to submit a motion that you cause an investigation to be conducted into the disruptions that are increasingly happening at public hearings of the august House, in particular to find out if there are any Hon. Members who are indeed involved in organising rowdiness, causing disruption and bringing Members of Parliament such as myself, colleagues and members of staff under danger.  Some of these were reported, for instance at Dangamvura Police Station.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to believe that this august House must indeed investigate such conduct so that this Parliament takes itself seriously, does not cause harm to its reputation and its processes and does not endanger Members of the august House and staff.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I made the following observations; Firstly, because this was a serious matter, it was incumbent upon the Chairperson of that Committee to give the Speaker a detailed report, also indicating what action was taken to report the matter to the police. 

Secondly, this notice could have been given yesterday when the House resumed sitting.  I would want to discourage Members from bringing notices during question time as it eats into time for questions.  Today is question time and Members must be given that opportunity to ask questions. 

Thirdly, I made a public pronouncement during the pre-budget seminar and condemned that behaviour without getting any details, except that there was some prima facie evidence that what you raised now was in fact true.  So, I look forward to a detailed report and appropriate action will be taken accordingly. 

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

HON. NDUNA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.  What is Government policy relating to mining houses and mines that traffic and traverse the roads in the places where they mine mineral resources without rehabilitation, resuscitation and rejuvenation of the road and the infrastructure that they would have plundered, destroyed and put into disrepair, which infrastructure would have been in a good state when they start mining?

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO):  The Hon. Member refers to the impact of mining equipment, specifically haulage trucks, I believe; but I am not sure whether these trucks will be confined to the mining houses’ area of jurisdiction, which is their claims or leases or whether it is equipment that is in fact moving from a mining site to another site with processing plants.  Either way, if it is within their concession area, we still expect them to maintain the road infrastructure that they are using but that will not be necessarily a public road.  The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, in liaison with the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate would have the responsibility of ensuring that the mining houses are operating in a sustainable manner.  If the trucks are however crossing public roads, then it becomes an issue that is inter-ministerial and we would expect that the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development and my Ministry would have to work together to ensure that the miners remain responsible citizens operating in a sustainable manner.  It would have been good to have a specific case in point so that we then look at it and try and assist the Hon. Member’s concerns.

HON. NDUNA:  I want to thank the Minister for the elaborate answer.  Is there anything that can be done immediately to make sure that these miners rehabilitate, as you have alluded to, the infrastructure that they are destroying in their quest to mine the minerals, in particular, gold.

HON. F. MOYO:  The policy, as I have earlier on alluded to is that all these businesses must operate in a sustainable manner.  In other words, we expect them to abide by standards and if these standards are deviated from, please report the cases so that it can be corrected.

HON. HOLDER:  I want to direct my question to the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. - [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, can you please lower your voices so that we can follow the questions.

          HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I wanted to direct my question to the Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development.  What is the Government’s policy regarding DDF tractors which are supposed to be ploughing for people and are not operational?  Has Government put any mechanisms or new policy in place in order for DDF to operate?

          THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE):  I want to thank the Hon. Member for raising the question on DDF tractors.  The Hon. Member has asked a very important question.  Indeed, there are plans by Government to assist DDF repair the tractors so that first and foremost, they assist in land preparation in the communal areas and A1 areas.  Thank you Mr. Speaker.

          HON. HOLDER:  Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Minister was answering but the House was a bit noisy.  We could not hear anything.  Can he please repeat it?  Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  In the interest of time, the Hon. Member is asked to read the Hansard tomorrow – [Laughter.] –

          *HON. ZWIZWAI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am asking the question which I asked previously which was directed to Hon. Minister Chombo.  The Acting Minister during the sitting was Hon. Mpofu.  My question is the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) has indicated that we do not have a voters’ roll for the 2018 period.  Hence, we are going to embark on the new biometric voters’ roll.  In this case, what will happen to people who are in the rural areas and high density areas?  They are people who are impoverished to such an extent that they cannot travel to registration centres to acquire lost identity documents.  Therefore as a Ministry, what are you doing in order for you to have mobile registration stations?  I also want to know whether the registration of voters has been included in the 2016/17 Budget.

          THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. CHOMBO):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to respond to the question raised by the Hon. Member.  This is a follow up to the report given by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission in preparation for the registration of voters during 2018.  As a Ministry and working through the Registrar General’s office, we will work hard and be prepared to give Zimbabwean citizens who apply for documentation to get those documents.  This will enable them to register as voters if they attain the legal age of majority. 

          At the moment, I may not be in a position to talk about mobile registration.  However, what I know is on an annual basis we have people who would want to acquire these national documents but have problems in travelling long distances to acquire the documents.  Hence, we have mobile registration exercise which will go to the people in their various districts so that they can access the documents.  Therefore, I will assure Hon. Zwizwai that any citizen of Zimbabwe who wants to acquire these documents in preparation for registering as a voter will be able to do so.  The plans are at an advanced stage.  Thank you. 

          *HON. ZWIZWAI:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I thank the Minister for giving the response.  As a follow up question, Hon. Minister have you made any provisions for supplementing the acquisition of these documents by people in high density areas or rural areas?  This is because they are supposed to pay $10 for the lost documents.  According to the Constitution, every Zimbabwean has a right to vote but some of the people may not be able to acquire the documents as they may not have the $10 registration fees.  What is Government policy regarding support for these people?  We are appealing to the Government so that they may waiver the payment of $10 to acquire a lost document, either a National Identity card or a birth certificate.

          HON. CHOMBO:  It is an administrative issue and something that we can really consider and see what reduction we can cause.  However, I want to urge all persons to really look after their registration documents because they can fall in wrong hands and be abused by criminal elements within our society.  It is also sometimes very unfair that you get a registration document today, lose it next week and then get another one for free.  I think let us be fair.  Let us encourage our people to keep important documents carefully. However, I will also take into consideration that maybe $10 is too high, and that we should consider reducing it.  Thank you.

          *HON. CHAMISA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am directing my question to Hon. Minister Chombo, regarding registration for voters.  Section 67 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe says, “Every Zimbabwean has a right to vote in a free and fair election.”  We also have another section which talks about the legal age of majority.  I am saying, now that we have this advanced technology in communication, is it not possible for the Ministry to make automatic registration for people who attain the legal age of majority which is 18? When somebody attains this age, there is an automatic registration of the person in the voters’ roll so that we avoid problems faced by people in travelling long distances to go and stand in queues to acquire national identity cards and birth certificates. Does the Government have any problems in implementing this technological solution?

          HON. CHOMBO:  I would want to thank the Hon. Member for his very brilliant question.  ZRP, Registrar’s office are some of the Departments in Government that are highly computerised.  These are some of the options that they are looking at basically how best to do it.  Once we make progress, we will inform this august House how this is going to work.  Thank you.

          HON. MUKUPE:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Firstly, I want to congratulate the Government of Zimbabwe on clearing the IMF debt arrears – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - My question is directed to the Minister of Welfare Services for War Veterans, War Collaborators, Former Political Detainees and Restrictees.  There was an alarming report in one of the tabloids which seems to allude that the war veterans were demanding half a million dollars each.  What is Government policy in terms of the financial welfare of the war veterans?  I thank you.

          THE MINISTER OF WELFARE SERVICES FOR WAR VETERANS, WAR COLLABORATORS, FORMER POLITICAL DETAINEES AND RESTRICTEES (HON. T DUBE):   Hon. Speaker Sir, I appreciate the question that has been raised.  I also read that in the newspapers but the truth is that you do not have to worry about what everybody says or thinks, it is neither a policy nor anything established.  It is just that somebody dreamt that way.  You do not have to take the issue seriously.  Thank you.

          HON. GONESE:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I think that the Hon. Minister should take this House seriously. I think the question was what is the Government policy regarding the welfare of war veterans.  I believe that he should now respond to that question.  That was simply a preamble as to what the newspaper reported were the demands of war veterans.  The question is very clear and straightforward.  I think that the Minister is doing an injustice and a disservice to the people of Zimbabwe by deciding not to respond to the question which to me is straightforward and simply.  He should simply tell us the Government policy regarding the welfare of the men and women who fought for the liberation of this country.  Can the Minister respond to the question?

          HON. DUBE:  I think it is common knowledge to all of us here that the Constitution makes it explicitly clear that Government has a duty to make sure that the war veterans get their welfare benefits which include monthly pensions, medical treatment - if there is need, as well as school fees for their children.  However, the question of the US$500 000 each has never been an issue.  It has never been a Government policy.  I believe this august House is consulted before we work out the amount of monies that must be dispatched to the war veterans as pensions.  In our normal senses, we do not think that a person can vote for a US$500 000.  That is why I did not take it seriously. 

          However, it is the duty of the Government to make sure that the welfare of the war veterans iscatered for.  The problems arise when Treasury encountered problems in raising these funds.  For instance, recently, we have been having a shortfall of school fees for almost two terms.  I am told that Treasury has not been able to raise fees for these children.  Treasury will pay the school fees when resources are made available, it is not like Treasury does not want to pay but the money is just not there.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

          +HON. NDEBELE:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  We are now talking about the benefits which are to be given to freedom fighters.  They are supposed to receive some compensation and we realise that since 2009, they are now being given an amount of U$73 per month.  This is regardless of the degree of injury, for example somebody has 1% and the other one 100%.  We know that the compensation is given on a sliding scale according to the degree of injuries.  This also depends on the rank which was held by the freedom fighter during the liberation war.  Hence, we are saying what is Government policy regarding the compensation on the injuries of our freedom fighters? 

          +HON. DUBE:  Hon. Speaker Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to respond to this question.  Let me say from the outset, my Ministry is not responsible for assessing the injuries to the freedom fighters.  They were assessed by doctors and they gave the percentages.  These doctors at times may give somebody 10% or 50%, depending on the injuries and they will be paid accordingly.  Of course we have had some doctors who are very unfaithful and untruthful who would certify that a freedom fighter has 100% degree of injury and yet that person will be moving and doing their everyday chores.  What we are doing now is to ask for a reassessment of these war veterans so that they receive compensation according to their injuries.

          +HON. NDEBELE:  Mr. Speaker Sir, my question was not responded to. 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, please sit down.

          HON. DUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir, let me repeat, the compensation for a war veteran who was injured in war commensurate with the damages.  If you have a war veteran who has lost sight, it is up to the examining doctor to state the percentage regarding that. If a war veteran lost a limb, it will be up to the assessing doctor who assesses the damage and therefore, that will determine the compensation that person should receive.

          +THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Minister. The question raised by the Hon. Member is that the compensation received by the war veterans is that they are given equal amounts regardless of the percentage of damages suffered by the war veteran.

          HON. T. J. DUBE: Hon. Speaker, this is false this is untrue. War veterans do not receive equal amounts. They are paid compensation according to the damages as examined by the doctors. There is no uniform payment. What this Hon. Member is saying is a creation of the figment of his own imagination. I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: I have not recognised you. Order, the Standing Orders are very clear. You do not start speaking before you are recognised. Now I am not allowing any supplementary question. If the Hon. Member has got information to that extent -[AN. HON. MEMBER: Which the Minister …]- Order. The Hon. Member should ask a written question with all details of those members who have different injuries, but are paid the same. So, let it come next week under Written Questions.

          HON. KHUPE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. In his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of the House Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. Monday was World Diabetes Day and October was Breast Cancer Awareness month. It is indisputable Mr. Speaker Sir, that these two are rising epidemics. They have become more fatal than HIV. There are 1.5 million in this country with diabetes. Cervical cancer is number 1 killer followed by breast cancer. What is Government policy in ensuring that they are screening facilities for diabetes and for all the cancers because early detection of diabetes and early detection of all the cancers saves lives? At the same time, what is Government doing in ensuring that diabetes treatment and cancer treatment is available, it is affordable and it is accessible? Right now, people are paying $30.00 every month for diabetes treatment and cancer, I will not even say because it is chemotherapy and goes up to $3 500.00 per cycle. What is Government doing in ensuring that there are screening facilities and in also ensuring that cancer and diabetes treatment are affordable, available and accessible? I thank you.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am very grateful to the Hon. Member for teaching me all what she has said because I was totally ignorant about everything that you have said. This is not my field, it is a technical area in the medical field. I am very glad that I will take up the matter with the relevant authorities who may know what is happening in that field.

In fact, I feel very proud that you think I know medical issues. – [Laughter.]-

*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am directing my question to the Minister of Mines. Now that we talk about the artisanal  miners and they seem to be bringing more gold to the Government, what is Government policy regarding the formalization of these artisanal miners so that they will not be  doing their businesses and fighting against the law enforcement agencies? What is Fidelity Printers and Refineries doing to follow these artisanal miners wherever they are doing their mining and buy their gold at the mines?

*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Government policy regarding artisanal miners is that Government should give assistance to these miners. There are three stages which have been taken to rectify this anomaly. The first one is that these artisanal miners should be protected by the laws so that when they work they will not be afraid of the law enforcement agencies. We now have to realign these laws. We also want to talk about the law regarding gold. What we also encourage these artisanal miners is that whatever gold they get, they should sell it to the State through Fidelity Printers and Refineries. The second aspect is that we need to re-tool these artisanal miners.  We have set aside $20 million so that the artisanal miners can start re-tooling and mechanizing their processes. The fund will be disbursed from this week and it is being distributed by Fidelity.

The requirements for accessing this funding has been put across for them to understand. It is Government wish that the $20 million should afford the artisanal miners to double their gold output. The third aspect is that when these artisanal miners have received, what is the support given to them by the Government. They should be given more information on their operations and hence we are moving our offices from the central places to the provinces and districts so that they are accessed easily by these artisanal miners. The only problem on decentralization is finance hence the steps taken by the Government to support the artisanal miners  so that they mine legally, access the funds and get information on mining which will protect their production and safety. I thank you.

*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Regarding the fund which has been set aside for these artisanal miners, we are being told that you need to have collateral so that you can access this amount. Some of the conditions that are set down for accessing this fund can be so prohibitive that these artisanal miners cannot access the funds.  Mr. Speaker Sir, we have received information that these artisanal miners are not accessing these funds because of the collateral which is needed for accessing the funds hence in the past few days we have held meetings regarding the collateral with these artisanal miners.  We aim at reducing the requirements so that it will be easy for the artisanal miners to access these services. 

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary regarding artisanal miners is that Hon. Moyo, we know of...

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister Moyo, tarisai kuno.

-         [Laughter.] -

HON. MAPIKI:  Hon. Minister Moyo has chosen to keep some of the parastatal boards....

Hon. Mliswa having stood up.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, I have not recognised you.  Hon. Member, can you proceed with your question.

HON. MAPIKI:  Is it true that your Ministry has decided to keep some of the boards chaired by your Ministry directly?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order.  That supplementary question does not arise.  It is not connected at all. 

*HON. PARADZA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is, what steps has Government taken to ensure that Fidelity Printers have money so that miners can sell their produce to them?  In my constituency, I advised artisanal miners to sell their gold to Fidelity Printers.  Unfortunately, there is no money and these artisanal miners are forced to sell to other unscrupulous dealers.

HON. F. MOYO:  I thank the Hon. Member for the question that has been asked.  As a Ministry, we always target the amount of gold we want to sell.  We then set aside some funds which are commensurate with the gold that we want.  At the moment, we are putting aside $10 million which we are supposed to circulate throughout the country so that we can buy all the gold from the artisanal miners.  As a matter of fact, whenever there is an upsurge in the production of gold, Fidelity Printers should be informed so that more funds are put up to enable us to buy all the gold from the artisanal miners.

+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA:  I am directing my question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Minister Dr. Dokora.  May you please explain the Government policy regarding teachers who are indulging in sexual activities or marriages with learners?

 *THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  The Hon. Member has asked a pertinent and emotional question regarding teachers involved in love affairs with learners, especially male teachers involved in sexual activities with their learners.  Government policy is very clear.  If a learner is below the set age and is taken for sexual activities by a teacher, regardless of the sex of the teacher, either male or female, the punishment is still the same.  The Criminal Evidence Act deals with such activities.  The responsible staff member is convicted regarding that.  We have had instances whereby people talk about improper association of the teacher and the student.  As a Ministry, we are trying to de-mystify the act of improper association and we want to check whether it will also regards the sexual activities between these two people who are not supposed to indulge in love affairs.  We also have people who say nobody should be convicted until they have gone before trial.  Some of them have to go through the Public Service Commission to ascertain the authenticity of such allegations and establish a prima facie case.  I thank you.

+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA:  I kindly ask the Minister to make a clear explanation.  What has been said is that, we have some teachers who indulge in sexual activities with underage girl learners.  What happens is that some of these teachers then go to the parents and pay lobola.  Once the parents have accepted the lobola, such an act seems to be legalised.  What is Government policy regarding marriage with underage learners who then pay lobola?

*HON. DR. DOKORA:  I hope I have understood what has been said by the Hon. Member.  What I know is that there is a law which was enacted recently which says, any child who is below 18 should not be legally married regardless of the condition.  As far as we are concerned as Zimbabwe, this does not involve only Members of Parliament, teachers or business people but anybody in Zimbabwe who marries an underage person in Zimbabwe, should be convicted under this Act. 

What I am asking the Hon. Member is that if she has a case which she can bring out, may she please write it down so that we make investigations in my Ministry, the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services to establish whether there is a prima facie case and as a Ministry, we will then prosecute.

          +HON. TOFFA: Thank you Hon Speaker for giving me the opportunity to ask the Minister on this question because it is a supplementary.  Minister, I have heard your response regarding the marriage of under aged children.  Now, you as the protector of the learners, through your Ministry, do you have a programme which has to educate these learners so that they are not abused in the schools or in those places?  What is your policy regarding the protection of the children at school?

          HON. DR. DOKORA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question raised.  May I also emphasise to this august House that as a Ministry, we are looking after the 4, 2 million learners in this country.  We are guarding them heavily and we know that they should be protected, that is why in any learning institution, we have the head of the school and the deputy.  Besides that, in every school, we have an official who is referred to as the counsellor, who does counselling services to the learners.  This is done in confidence because some learners may not open up in a class room.  So, the counsellor will then talk to this youngster in confidence and in private and the learner or the child will open up.  We have realised that in some instances some of the issues raised by the learners during the counselling sessions; some people are arrested in the homes because they would have abused the children at home and the kids have nowhere to go, so they bring the matter up during the counselling sessions.  Therefore, I have to thank the Hon. Member and inform this august House that as a Ministry, we believe that every learner should have the integrity in the school environment. Thank you.

          HON. DR. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement.  Minister, can you enlighten us as to what is Government policy as regards the sugar plantations in the low-veld, taking note of the economic impact of any disruptive activities in that regard.  Thank you.

          THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking that question.  Let me say that we do not have a clear policy on plantations and specifically mentioning the sugar estates which are considered to be agro-industry.  Of late, we have just been relying on directives

THE Minister of Home Affairs having stood up to leave the Chamber.

– [HON. MEMBER: Haa gara pasi, toda kubvunza mibvunzo.]-

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.

HON. DR. MOMBESHORA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Currently, the policy is that we do not settle people on plantations, whatever form of plantations, including sugar plantations as requested by the Hon. Member.  However, currently we are also working on a national land policy which will then clarify the Government policy on those plantations including forests, citrus estates and sugar estates. I thank you.

          HON. SHUMBA: I would like the Minister to be specific on issues that have a direct impact on the economic performance of our country, more specifically in the lowveld as regards the plantations; whether he is cognisance of such plantations that are affected by, let us say BIPA agreements.  What is the consequence of lack of clarity in that regard?

          HON. DR. MOMBESHORA: As I have said, we are working on a national land policy which will clarify issues on all those plantations.  I think the Hon. Member has raised another issue concerning BIPA protected properties.  The policy is that if any BIPA protected properties are acquired by Government, they are set rules and regulations concerning compensation for that land which are stipulated in the Constitution on Section 295.  So, currently we are not taking BIPA properties because it has got the economic impact on Government since Government has no money to pay promptly the compensation for both land and improvements.  Thank you.

          HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  My question is going to be directed to the Minister of Home Affairs but due to the fact that he has gone out, I will now refer it to the Leader of the House.  The Minister had confirmed that spot fines are illegal, so I wanted to find out if there is any Government policy which has been put in place so that the same issue of spot fines does not haunt the members of the public.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): The Hon. Member states that she understands the Minister of Home Affairs has clarified the issue of spot fines that they are not lawful.  Now, she is asking whether we have some alternative to implementing something to replace what is not lawful.  No, we do not.

          HON. CHAMISA: My supplementary question is directed to the Vice President of the Republic, Hon. Mnangagwa. We have heard what you have said about spot fines but my question has to do with the aspect of numerous roadblocks. It has almost become a total nuisance to the point of disturbing…

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the original question was on spot fines.  Now, you are talking of roadblocks.

          HON. CHAMISA: Spot fines at roadblocks…

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we talk about the spot fines only not the general roadblocks. 

          HON. CHAMISA: Let me zero in on the issue of spot fines to please your expectation.  Madam Speaker, we have seen numerous spot fines being made at various roadblocks – [Laughter.]- On that account, I would want to know from the Vice President on behalf of Government what we are doing to make sure that we do away with not just spot fines, but also the issue of multiplicity of roadblocks, particularly in the context of their potential of interfering with freedom of movement. Also with the advent of ICTs, why do we not remove our police officers from the roads and put digital cameras on the roads so that we do not unnecessarily have our police details manning roadblocks unnecessarily so that you end up with a situation where you have roads that are free in terms of flow of transport and the human personnel, Hon. Vice President.

           HON. MNANGAGWA: The issue of roadblocks is lawful. I think the question the Hon. Member is concerned with is the intensity of roadblocks, that is administrative and not policy. Thank you Hon. Member. – [HON. MEMEBRS: Laughter.]-

          HON. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Leader of the House, since you are saying there are no policy measures put in place with regards to spot fines, are you going to place the swipe machines or the ‘point of sale’ on the roadblocks or are you going to encourage the eco-cash? Which is which because there is a cash crisis?

          HON. MNANGAGWA: The question of the mode of payment cannot be an issue of policy but an issue of efficient administration. If your proposal is going to be adopted well and good, if not, bad luck.

          HON. MHONA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Public Service,...

          Hon. Minister Kasukuwere and Hon. Mliswa having been chatting.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister Kasukuwere and Hon. Mliswa.

          HON. MHONA: Once again thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Hon. Minister, is there Government policy in place that prohibits child labour and exploitative practices by the employers in the provision of services that are inappropriate for the child’s age and places the child at risk, the well-being, education and mental health with regards to Section 81(1) paragraph (e) of our Constitution. Thank you.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam Speaker. The Hon. Member raises an issue of grave concern. The Children’s Act is very clear on child labour. It is a criminal offence for anybody to be utilising children for labour. I ask the Hon. Member to give us specific examples where they exist and we will certainly take it up as a Ministry because it is criminal to do that.

          HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Cooperative Development. What is Government policy regarding the formalisation of SMEs who do not have identity documents yet it is a prerequisite by our banks?

THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES AND COOPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON. NYONI): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The Government policy is that all SMEs must have relevant documentation. We cannot formalise them without the legal documents that Government requires for people to be registered formally. So, if there are people like that, we would encourage them to go and get whatever documentation is needed. We will then facilitate them to formalise in any way they choose to. Let me just add that we have done a study throughout the country and a report is being written and such issues if they surface, we will assist our SMEs to solve those problems so that they are facilitated to formalise. I thank you.

HON. MUNENGANI: Thank you Hon. Minister. Indeed like what you rightly say that the Government policy is not allowing those without proper documentation to access loans. Still, those with proper documentation are failing to access loans in banks. I am talking about the SMEs from Glen View Complex whom you once promised that you will come and help them in terms of building their shelters but unfortunately, as we speak right now, they have managed to go to banks and the banks refuse to give them access to loans? What is your comment about that Hon. Minister?

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you are particularising between the issues of the SMEs. If you have an issue with the Minister, you can go to her office or bring this question in a written form so that she replies and gives you researched information.

HON. MUNENGAMI: No, it was a follow-up on the issue which she had agreed that the Government is not allowing those without proper identification to get loans. But, unfortunately even those with proper identification particulars are not being allowed to get loans by the banks. That was the issue which I wanted to ask her.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is what I have said that please put it in writing so that she gives you full researched information.

*HON. MUNENGAMI: Maita henyu Speaker. Ngavachiuya kuGlen View.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER

MEETING OF CHAIRPERSONS OF COMMITTEES

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that all Hon. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development and Chairpersons of Committees are invited to a meeting on the 2017 National Budget Priorities tomorrow the 17th November, 2016 at 0930 hours in the Senate Chamber.

HON CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Madam Chair. My question is directed to the Leader of the House, the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa. Hon. Vice President, what is the Government policy ...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mashayamombe, can you talk to those who are closer to you.

HON. CHIBAYA: What is Government policy in a situation where police disrupt a lawful gathering cleared by the Courts of Law? I thank you.

THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, where a gathering is lawful and it is being disrupted, it means those who are disrupting it are doing an unlawful act because the gathering is lawful. You then need to have a particular incident which can be investigated to show why a lawful gathering was disrupted when it is lawfully allowed to take place.  So, you will need a specific issue which will be looked into and facts laid bare in the House, I thank you.

          HON. CHIBAYA:  Thank you very much Madam Speaker and the Hon. Vice President.  I am referring to a situation in Zvishavane where our MDC rally was disrupted by the police despite the fact that we had a court order which was served to the police.

          HON. MNANGAGWA:  I cannot expand on my explanation.  This is a specific issue which would require why that happened.  If the Hon. Member is asking whether it is Government policy to disrupt a lawful gathering, I am informing the Hon. Member that that is not Government policy.  If such an incident happened, then you need to ask that specific question to the specific ministry.  They will do the investigations and lay the facts on the table.

          HON. PHIRI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, in his absence - the Deputy Minister.  I want to thank the Government for availing land to local authorities...

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Come to the question Hon. Member please.

          HON. PHIRI: I need to commend the Government for that.  My question is what is Government policy on former farm workers who are affected by the expansion of local authorities, towns or cities?

          THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE): Thank you Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Phiri for his question.  The question would have been answered by the Minister of Lands.  However, I can only clarify in so far as saying, when cities or towns - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Members, if you make such noise the questioner is at the back, he wants to hear what is being said by the Minister.

          HON. KASUKUWERE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I was only trying to clarify that the process goes like this.  If town councils or city authorities require land to expand, what they normally do is we will gazette the new boundaries and those people in those farms who will be affected, the responsibilities lies with the Minister of Lands.  We will apply for the land from the Minister of Lands and he will hand over to us but the resettlement of the inhabitants of those areas is the responsibility of the Minister of Lands.  I thank you.

          *HON. MPARIWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I am directing my question to the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, who is also the Leader of the House, Hon. Mnangagwa.  We have noticed that there are a lot of people who are in queues, day in day out, waiting to access their finances from the banks.  We noticed that some of these people put up in the verandas and this is a derailment of the agricultural programme by the State.  What is Government policy regarding access to cash? Not only that, also the protection of these people and their social welfare so that they can be assisted in their times of need because these people should go back to their homes instead of staying in towns.

          *THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA):  Thank you Madam Speaker to say the least, I feel more hurt than what the Hon. Members is expressing because every time I see these people in the queues, the old women, old men and ‘others people’, it hurts me greatly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          *THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I also heard that Hon. Vice President.  It was a slip of the tongue because a human being is a human being.

          *HON. MNANGAGWA: As I stated before it is my wish that Government should take timely steps so that we do away with this liquidity crunch.  In order for us to access funds there are four ways which we have to use.  The first one is that we have people who would have exported their goods and then receive payments, that is when we can get our money.  The second way of accessing cash is through Foreign Direct Investment, where we have foreigners coming in to establish businesses in Zimbabwe and in that way we can have money.  The third aspect is that we have friends and relatives who are in the diaspora who will think of their homes and know that home is best and hence they send money, in that way Zimbabwe will be able to get money.  The fourth aspect of getting money is that the Government should get lines of credit bilaterally or multilaterally. 

You cannot get money into the country through any other means besides these four stated instances, regardless of how much infrastructure we may construct, regardless of the roads, rail and air system; regardless of the accommodation and offices.  This will not earn us any funds but these four state ways Zimbabwe can get money and we need to improve on these aspects.  As a result, we sit down as people of Zimbabwe.  I know we have said we sit down and have these discussions in this august House.  If you were absent, well that is another way but as a country as the policy markers of Zimbabwe, we said we can conquer this cash shortage through the introduction of bond notes. 

          *HON. CHAMISA:  Madam Speaker I have been touched by the words stated by the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  The question which has been asked by Hon. Mpariwa is we are not talking about the amount which we do not have but we are talking about the available cash in Zimbabwe. When we are talking about money, we are talking about money which has been invested or banked in financial institution such as banks.  We are not talking about money which is earned by the country through foreign direct investments or getting from the diaspora.  People have banked their money in these financial institutions but they cannot access that money.  What has happened to that money?  People go to the banks because they will have banked with those institutions.

*THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT (HON. MNANGAGWA):  I clearly understand what the Hon. Member is saying.  First and foremost, I am the leader of the House and the second aspect is that I have heard financial institutions saying when money is banked and then put into circulation some of the notes are torn, hence they want to disburse clean and intact banknotes and not tattered notes.  Also when we have received money through the four ways which I stated, that is the money which is used by Government and business people to go and import goods for the smooth running of the country.  

As Government, we also access the money that you bank for the development of the country.  So, we are saying the economy of the country is based on the available resources and at the moment we have inadequate financial support.  Stemming from that, we have great thinkers who have suggested that as Zimbabwe, we should not use FDI to buy things like matohwe but to introduce a new monetary system such as the bond notes, which are supported by US$200 million, which will never be exported but used in the country only.  Therefore we will not run short of money. 

Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.

HON. GONESE:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.  In connection with Standing Order Number 63, as read with Standing Order Number 68 (d), Standing Order Number 63 is in relation to the attendance and accountability of Vice Presidents and Ministers, as read with the provisions of Section 107 of our Constitution.  In terms of Standing Order Number 63, it is clear that any Minister who is unable to attend the sittings of Parliament must have an application.  The point which I am making is in terms of Standing Order Number 68(d), which is a matter of privilege for a Member of Parliament. 

Madam Speaker, the Hon. Minister of Home Affairs who was in this august House, Hon. Chombo got here at 14:15hrs and some of us had questions which were directed to his Ministry.  When he left his seat, this was recorded by the cameras.  I am one of the Members who rushed to him and indicated that I had questions which I wanted to pose to him. The Hon. Minister assured me that he was only going to the bathroom for a few minutes and would come back.  That was more than 30 minutes ago. 

It is my respectful submission that when Hon. Ministers and Hon. Vice Presidents come to Parliament, they are obligated in terms of the provisions of both our supreme law, which is our Constitution and our Standing Orders in terms of Standing Order Number 63 to be present in the House.  I believe that the Hon. Minister who was in this august House in running away from questions which I pointed out to him and from other Hon. Members shows total disdain and contempt for this august House.  That behaviour must not and should not be tolerated.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Point noted Hon. Member.  It is only that the reason which was given to you by the Minister is different from what he gave me. He told me he was going to South Africa this afternoon on business.  However, since all the Vice Presidents are here, I think they are going to help us by talking to our Hon Members of the Executive, so that they attend to the questions in this House.  This is going to be looked into.

HON. CHAMISA:  Thank you Madam Speaker; that is a very important ruling you have made.  Can I also kindly ask our Hon, Vice Presidents to also advise Ministers that we are tempted as Parliament to now invoke the Contempt of Parliament Provisions.  We will make them pay whenever they do not come.  – [HON. KASUKUWERE: Haaa.]- Do not say haaa Hon. Kasukuwere because we will deal with you. - [laughter.] -

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, Hon. Member, address the Chair.

HON. CHAMISA:  My apologies Madam.

                   THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):  On a point of order Madam Speaker.  I am being threatened by the Hon. Member and I need your protection.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I think the Hon. Member has withdrawn his statement.  I told him to address the Chair as he is supposed to address the Chair and not the Minister.

HON. CHAMISA:  Thank you Madam Chair.  It is very important for our Ministers to give value to Parliament.  That is what makes our Parliamentary democracy work.  So, it is not a threat but just a kind warning and kind request to the Executive to take Parliament seriously.  I thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Member.  I think our Hon Vice Presidents and the Leader of the House are going to take note of that. 

HON. ANELE NDEBELE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  Last month we requested that the Minister of Social Welfare gives a Ministerial Statement on the serious matter, a matter of national concern, that of partisan food distribution.  I noticed the Speaker then erred in inviting her to give that Statement at her convenience.  Apparently, her convenience will never come.  We are still awaiting that Ministerial Statement.  I therefore request that since she has gone beyond seven days, which in my view is a reasonable time period, could you then give her specific time to give us that …

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):  On a point of order – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Deputy Minister, could you please wait.  Order, Hon. Members!

          HON. NDEBELE:  I also pardon him for that junior ministerial action – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Member.  You are addressing the Chair; you are not supposed to address other Hon. Members here.

          HON. NDEBELE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I invite you to make a determination as to when the Minister can address us as well as the nation because this thing is still happening out there.  Our people are being denied food.  Thank you Madam Speaker.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I felt the Hon. Deputy Minister had something to say concerning that Ministerial Statement but I think the Minister is prepared to bring in that Ministerial Statement.  It is not something that can be brought without researched information.  She should bring something that is well researched here.  Anyway, I may ask the Deputy Minister, maybe he has some information – [AN HON. MEMBER:  Haana zvaanoziva.] – How can you say that?  I am recognizing the Deputy Minister.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE):  Thank you Madam Speaker.  In fact, you are on point.  The Minister is currently not available in the country so there is no way you can expect her to make a presentation when she is not available – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order! Order Hon. Members.  Now I cannot hear what he is saying.  Are you able to reply to what he is saying?  I want to hear what he is saying.

          HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE:  Madam Speaker, we are working on the report and indeed, it will be submitted in this House. 

          HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Thank you.  I have got a point of order but basically it has to do with clarity from the Hon. Deputy Minister. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I think we are going back to Questions Without Notice.

          HON. MUTSEYAMI:  No, it is not a question.  The last time we were here Madam Speaker, the Minister clearly put to the House that any Hon. Member can invite her to a programme in his or her constituency whereby she will attend to the people and distribute food at that function.  Hon. Saruwaka of Mutasa Central invited the Hon. Minister, through a letter and went there physically as well.  The Minister accepted the invitation to attend the rally in Mutasa Central, Ward 10 at a business centre.  I was there to witness such a big task being done by a Minister in the Republic of Zimbabwe at an MDC – T function; a Government Minister distributing food.  However, the Minister did not attend.  At the venue, the Hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Saruwaka actually phoned in the morning and she insinuated to the fact that she would make provisions for someone to attend on her behalf but it never happened.  Is it contempt of Parliament or it is something to do with contempt of confidence to the nation of the Republic of Zimbabwe?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I hear what you are saying.  I think I will use this office to talk to the Minister about that promise she made which she could not fulfill.  Also, with the help of the Leader of the House who is here, he will talk to the Ministers.  If they promise something to the Members of Parliament, I think they should meet their promises.

          Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

TITLE DEEDS FOR BUDIRIRO HOUSING COOPERATIVES

          3.  HON. MACHINGAUTA asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development to state when members of the following Housing Co-operatives in Budiriro would get title deeds:

a)    High Glen Housing Co-operative;

b)   Kutamburira Housing Co-perative;

c)    Z.R.P Housing Co-operative;

d)   Ngungunyani Housing Co-operative and

e)    Goshen Consortium.

THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON. NYONI):  Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question.  Housing co-operatives are registered with the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development.  The Ministry provides for the formation, registration, regulation, management and dissolution of co-operatives in terms or accordance with the Co-operative Societies Act, Chapter 24:05 in line with Government policy of providing low cost accommodation to its citizenry.

Title deeds are issued by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and Urban Development through local authorities in their respective areas upon fulfillment of the stipulated requirements.

Housing co-operatives are legal entities which after the registration exercise, attain a high degree of independence and autonomy in decision making in their day to day activities.  That is to say, they can apply for land from local authorities, private land developers or from private land owners of their own choice.  After they have been allocated or acquired the land, co-operatives are required to follow local authorities’ by-laws, rules and regulations that govern land development in a particular area before they are issued with title deeds.  I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

*HON. MACHINGAUTA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  When I submitted my question, it was directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Then my question was taken to the Ministry of SMEs, headed by Hon. Nyoni.  Therefore, I kindly ask Hon. Minister Nyoni to give me a response on the condition regarding the co-operatives, I want to know their status.  May she please explain the situation on the ground because, if need be, I may direct my question to Hon. Kasukuwere.  Mr. Speaker Sir, when we talk of co-operatives, we are talking of poor people who want to earn something especially when you look at even the names of the co-operatives; we have Kutamburira and the Z.R.P.  This is made up of people who cannot make it on their own  hence, they establish these cooperatives so that they can put up for their families. 

          Mr. Speaker Sir, what bothers me is that we have  Ministries which cannot make decisions and are playing cat and mouse game with these co-operatives.  Why should it take such a long time when we are talking of a Government which has all the policies set up and now people are suffering with no accommodation, may you please be decisive?

          +THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON. NYONI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I want to thank the Hon. Member.  I would want him to go back to the co-operatives …

          *HON. MACHINGAUTA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  I understand Ndebele but I am not very fluent, if possible, can the Hon. Minister answer in English or in Shona.  

          HON. NYONI: Mr. Speaker Sir, can he ask the person sitting next to him to interpret for him, I also want to explain clearly as much as he did. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to ask the Hon. Member to go back and check because for him to talk about these co-operatives in Parliament, it means that he has talked to them.  He is the one who  knows if they want title deeds or whether they do not.  If he could go and advise them as I have done to him.  Thank you. 

          HON. MACHINGAUTA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I will go and collect the information and give that information to the Hon. Minister.

LIST OF BENEFICIARIES FROM FUNDS AVAILED BY THE MINISTRY IN KADOMA CONSTITUENCY

4.  HON. PHIRI asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Cooperative Development to avail the list of individuals or groups of people who have benefited from funds availed by the Ministry in Kadoma Central Constituency.

          THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON. NYONI): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question.  The Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development avails funding to SMEs mainly through its financing arm, the Small and Medium Enterprises Development Cooperation (SMEDCO). 

          Under the Ministry’s Revolving Fund for the period 2009 to 2015, a total of USD $4 395 000  was released by Treasury.  The bulk of this amount (80%) was released in 2010 and 2011. 

          The breakdown of the disbursement is given below;

          AMOUNT RELEASED FROM TREASURY

         

Year

Amount released ($)

2009

  150 000

2010

2 000 000

2011

1 500 000

2012

   200 000

2013

   395 000

2014

Nil

2015

150 000

Total released

4 395 000

 

 Out of the country’s ten provinces, for the period 2010 to 2014, an average of 5.2% of the fund was disbursed to Mashonaland West, the province in which Kadoma Central Constituency falls under. 

Percentage of Disbursements by Province

 

2010

2011

2012

2013

2014

Mash Central

5.97%

3.21%

10.40%

20.62%

23.49%

Bulawayo

17.19%

19.39%

3.41%

11.27%

3.41%

Matebeleland North

4.78%

1.60%

3.59%

0.99%

0

Matebeleland South

10.63%

0.80%

5.02%

3.08%

0

Midlands

13.82%

2.56%

11.12%

13.07%

7.67%

Harare

20.51%

37.82%

30.49%

22.59%

16.89%

Mashonaland East

1.16%

3.21%

14.81%

2.44%

5.39%

Mashonaland West

7.75%

6.09%

6.81%

2.98%

2.56%

Masvingo

11.53%

16.03%

3.95%

12.91%

22.14%

Manicaland

6.60%

9.29%

10.40%

10.04%

18.45%

 

Of these beneficiaries, Kadoma Central benefitted to the tune of $12 500 which was distributed to one co-operative and three private business enterprises as given in  the schedule below.

2010 – 2014 Kadoma Central Beneficiaries Disbursements

Name of Project

Nature of operations

Project Address

Name of Principal Director or Sole Trader

Loan amount

Purposes

Tinzweiwo Transport Coop

Transport

453 Tembwe Rd. Industrial Area. Kadoma

Tiriwaribu Motsi

$5 000

Working Capital

Arkbum Engineering

Engineering

6677, Light Industry, Rimuka

Kadoma

Josephat Chomweya

$5 000

Working Capital

Buy OxTrading

Butchery

Head office, Butchery, Waverly Shopping Centre,

Kadoma

Flenkon Sibanda

$1 500

Working Capital

Precious Manyeruke

General Dealer

Pearchway

Kadoma

Precious Manyeruke

$1 000

Working capital

 

          I thank you.

          HON. PHIRI:  I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the answer. However, what mechanisms are you putting in place to make sure that the monies that are disbursed do not go to places like Harare and Bulawayo.  Talking of Kadoma, for the past three to four years from what you have just mentioned, only US$12 000  was disbursed  and yet these SMEs are where the majority of our people are employed.

          HON. NYONI:  That is a very important question and a very important concern.  My Ministry is very concerned also. We would like to reach every SME in the country with the resources but the reason why I started by outlining what Treasury has given us, is for the Hon. Member to understand that it is not about not reaching Kadoma, it is about not having enough resources to stretch to everyone in the country.  At least he is very lucky that he got $12 000.  There are other constituencies that have not been able to get anything and even provinces.  For instance in 2013 and 2014, Matebeleland North and South had a zero disbursement because there is no money.  I would like to persuade this House to put pressure on Treasury to recapitalise SEDCO so that we can make funds available to the Constituencies. I thank you.

          +HON. TOFFA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister, what procedure they are using because there are many people in Bulawayo especially women who say that they have never seen anyone from Bulawayo who has received this help. What happens is that women are called to Mhlahlandlela for these meetings and they are taught about how to get assistance. However, when they go to those various places, they are not assisted.

          Therefore, they are pleading with you Hon. Minister, that there be a certain procedure and that there is transparency such that those people who get assistance may know that they are really from Bulawayo. As it is today, I got a message from a women who is in Mahatshula who said that as a person who is representing us, please go and speak to the Minister and ask her to come and talk to us and also to let us know which procedure they follow to make sure that we are also attended to as the people from Bulawayo.

          +HON. NYONI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. That is not true that the people from Bulawayo have not received any of the funds. However, Hon. Member, may be those that you work with are the ones who have not received any funds. I would like to remind the Hon. Member that last year we launched a fund that is from CBZ worth $10 million that was launched in Bulawayo. The fund was launched by Vice President Hon. Mphoko and even hon. members were invited. CBZ explained to the people how this money could be given to the people.

          It is therefore, our responsibility for people to go to CBZ. There is $10 million countrywide that is supposed to assist women. We are determined to come and meet up with the women if there are issues that they need to talk to us about, if there are businesses that they are doing and they need our assistance. I thank you. 

INDO ZIMBABWE PROJECT IN WARD 21 CHITUGWIZA

          5. HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development

(a) to state the nature of owners of the Indo Zimbabwe project which is in ward 21 in Chitungwiza Town,

(b) provide a list of projects they are implementing in ward 21 in Chitungwiza Town and any other by the Ministry;

(c) explain why the local leadership were not consulted with regards to the projects, in particular, the councillor and the Member of Parliament.

THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES AND COOPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON. NYONI): Thank you Hon. Member for that question. (a) The Indo-Zimbabwe project in Ward 21 is owned by the Ministry and is operated by the SMEDCO on behalf of the Ministry. The Ministry and SMEDCO have an MOU to that effect.

(b) The Ministry has no other specific projects in Ward 21 beside the Iindo-Zim, but the Ministry is currently working on resuscitating Chitungwiza Garment Factory which is in Unit A. The Garment Centre building will be renovated, and supplied with new equipment worth US$50 000.00 to set up a cotton to clothing Incubation Centre to benefit SMEs in Chitugwiza.

(c) The Ministry leases this Garment Centre building from Chitungwiza Council and the Ministry has been working with the council.

CONSTRUCTION CHIGWAGWA SECONDARY SCHOOL

6. HON. MAVENYENGWA asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education when the Ministry is going to give authority to construct Chigwagwa Secondary School in Zaka since the Community and local Member of Parliament have already mobilised material for the first block. 

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Hon. Member, for that question. Chigwagwa Secondary School has challenges of viability. There is only one feeder primary school which is Chigwagwa Primary. Other secondary schools within a 7 km radius are: Muchimwi and Pamutevhure.

The first proposed site for the school met challenges of displacing some of the villagers who had been legally settled. The Department of Physical Planning is working together with the local authority to identify a suitable site for the school before authority to establish and construct the school can be granted.

Background information

The last discussion on the issue was in 2014. The Rural District Council has remained quiet indicating that they have failed to identify a suitable site. Other secondary schools in the vicinity have low enrolment figures. Pamutevhure has 300 learners while Mutimwi has less than 400 learners also.

PERMITS FOR A1 FARMERS IN ZVIMBA EAST

15. HON. MUKWANGWARIWA asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to state when the people on the farms in Zvimba East will get their A1 permits considering that they have been occupying the farms since 2000 and are now being evicted willy nilly by A2 farmers:

(a) Ward 20 at Mapinga-Beatrice Farm;

(b) Ward 26 at Boldwin Farm, Little England Farm, Mede Farm and New Lands; and

(c) Ward 35 at Amalinda Farm and Warwick Farm.

THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESEETLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. May I start by thanking Hon. Mukwangwariwa for asking this question? The law provides that only holders of A2 offer letter, A1 permit or 99 Year Lease have the lawful authority to occupy, use and posses acquired State Land and those who occupy the same land without the above papers are illegally occupying the farms and should be evicted.

Most of the people who occupied the farms during the fast track land reform were issued with offer letters and permits and only a few were left out but we are in the process of regularising however, there are a number of people who illegally settled in the farms without lawful authority disguised as fast track settlers and these have not been given lawful offer letters and will not be given the same. They should vacate the farms and apply for agricultural land through their District Lands Committees.  I shall proceed to address the farms which you enquired over as follows:

1.    Beatrice Farm which is at Mapinga, this was allocated to 62 A1 farmers and they are 30 illegal settlers who should vacate the same.

2.    Boldwin Farm has 15 A2 farmers and there is no record of any illegal farmer on that farm.

3.     Little England has 50 A2 farmers and 150 illegal settlers who should vacate the farm and apply for farms at the Districts Land Committee. The illegal settlers on this farm have been evicted a number of times, but they keep on going back to the farm fully cognisant that they are in illegal occupation of the farm.

4.    Mede Farm has 9 A2 farmers with 440 illegal settlers who should vacate the same.

5.    Newlands Farm is a mixed model which has 68 A2 farmers and 12 A2 farmers. There are 46 illegal settlers who should vacate that farm.

6.    Amalinda and Warwick Farms have 10 A1 and 2 A2 farmers respectively.

The farms are adjacent to Lake Chivero and a decision was taken by Government to allocate the same to A2 farmers after an Environmental Assessment Report recommended that farms be allocated to few people as a means to protect the lake and to promote environmental conservation.  All legitimate fast track error settlers will be relocated by the State to other farms.  Thank you.

*HON. NDUNA:  Thank you Minister for the answer.  I want to touch on policy and on the resettling of people who have settled themselves illegally.  What is happening is that, the A1 who were promised offer letters are still on the farms that they were allocated in 2000.....

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):  Hon. Member, are you referring to this particular question?

HON. NDUNA:  The policy part of it that he touched on. 

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  I thought you are also mentioning particular farms now which may be difficult for him to answer.

HON. NDUNA:  I want to touch on the policy part concerning a situation where the A1 farmers on the land, then somebody comes from Harare with an A2 offer letter which supersedes and covers the A1 offer letters and A1 operatives that are resident in those areas.  What happens in such a scenario?

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, I may allow you to proceed but this does not refer to the question that has been asked.  Hon. Minister, if you are kind enough, you can respond to that.

HON. DR. MOMBESHORA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Whereas his question is not very clear because it touches on specific issues and if there are any specific issues, I would encourage him to tell us the specific issues.  In general, where there has been a re-plan, like I have mentioned, the district lands committees are supposed to inform those A1 farmers that it has been re-planned to an A2.  If it is properly re-planned, it means those A1 farmers who are being displaced will be re-located by the district lands committees.  We must also be careful that some people will come with fake offer letters and say they are now the legally settled persons.  Therefore, case by case issues must be looked into thoroughly.

*HON. MUKWANGWARIWA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Like what the Minister has said, does it mean that these people are supposed to be prosecuted due to trespassing?  What used to happen is that, the Ministry would go on the ground and find out how many legal settlers are there before they issue out offer letters.  What is happening now is that those who have access to the high offices are the ones who get offer letters without the knowledge of people earmarked to be resettled there. 

Also the Constitution says that, the duty of the Government is to remove illegal settlers and settle them on other areas instead of throwing them into the roads.  Right now, we are in the farming season and what will happen to those people because they have to engage in farming.  They did not resettle themselves illegally but they were promised. 

  HON. DR. MOMBESHORA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, let me say to the Hon. Member, we have done a thorough investigation on the farms that he has mentioned.  Like I mentioned, on one of the farms, the illegal settlers have been evicted several times and keep on coming back.  So, we do not want to encourage illegal settlements.  Those people who have settled themselves illegally, should go back where they came from and they should apply.  We will not encourage lawlessness, but for those who were promised and are now supposed to be moved, we have said the Government, through the district lands committees will allocate them somewhere.  If there is a specific case where those who had been promised to be moved by Government are being thrown into the streets, let us know so that we can intervene.  Thank you.

OPERATION OF KADOMA DISTRICT REGISTRAR OFFICES

19.  HON. PHIRI asked the Minister of Home Affairs to indicate when the Kadoma District Registrar Offices would start operating.

THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBERSHORA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO):  I have been asked by the Minister of Home Affairs to read the responses on his behalf.  All Public Sector Investment Programmes (PSIP) in the Registrar General’s Department are wholly funded by Treasury.  Construction of Kadoma District Registry was halted due to the harsh economic environment.  Construction will however, resume as soon as funds are made available by Treasury.

PLANS TO EXPEDITE THE GRANTING OF CITIZENSHIP TO ‘ALIENS’

20.   HON. PHIRI asked the Minister of Home Affairs to state the plans the Ministry has put in place to expedite the granting of citizenship to ‘aliens’ especially those who cannot afford travelling to Provincial Offices.

THE MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MOMBERSHORA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO):  The Ministry has made submissions to Government for amendments of certain provisions of the Constitution of Zimbabwe regarding the Citizenship Law.  As such, we therefore await the said amendments to the Constitution.

*HON. NDUNA:  Are there other plans in place for payment for someone who wants to upgrade from alien to citizenship?  Our people are not able to change from alien to citizenship because they do not have the resources to do that and they end up being internally dispensed citizens or people.

HON. DR. MOMBERSHORA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I have taken note of the question.  I am not able to answer it but will relay it to the responsible Minister.

HON. TOFFA:  If the Hon. Minister could also take note of my supplementary question.  There are people that have been aliens for a long time and are now adults and have no birth certificates.  Can the Minister make arrangements for these people because they are now stateless and have nowhere to go.  They need to feel that they are part of the citizens of Zimbabwe.  Thank you.

          HON. CHAMISA: Since the substantive Minister is not around but we have the surrogate Minister, are you also able to take this information to the Minister that Government’s have moved.  Why can we not activate a data based Government, or an evidence based Government so that we are able to have a citizen’s roll calibrating the various segments of our population.  It is very possible.  Then you will be able to address the issue that has been raised by Hon. Phiri, you will then be able to know the number of citizens who belong to what is called the alien voter population.  It is very easy and simple.  I have always offered my services Hon. Speaker that I was once a Minister, I am ready to go back into Government and assist just for two months so that we solve some of these issues.  Thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES IN SILOBELA

          21. HON. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to state when the Ministry will construct the following bridges:

(i) Bridge at Gweru River between Python Ward 21 and Samoza 15 in Silobela and

          (ii) Vungu River to Langton Farm Bridge

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADANHA): Mr. Speaker Sir, the bridge being mentioned is not under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  It is under DDF or Rural District Council who will be engaged so that they advise us of their plans

          Vungu River to Langton Farm Bridge – the bridge in question is under DDF or Rural District Council and not the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  They will again be engaged so that they advise us of their plans.  Thank you.

          HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order! Hon. Minister, you said these bridges are not under the Ministry but it is common knowledge that ZINARA is collecting all the revenue which is supposed to be collected by those authorities, be it DDF or Rural District Council.  So, I think it is in the best interest of the Minister to respond because they are the ones through ZINARA who are collecting the revenue.

          HON. MADANHA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. ZINARA is an entity, a parastatal which is under our purview.  The job of ZINARA is to collect road funds for further distribution to all road entities.  Let me make it very clear that in this country we have got four road entities which operate independently and separately.  These four road entities are the Department of roads which is directly under our Ministry; the Rural District Council which is under Local Government; the DDF and Urban Councils also under Ministry of Local Government. 

          All the four entities receive funding from ZINARA but they operate independently.  So, I cannot speak on behalf of DDF or the Rural District Council.  I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF KWEKWE TO NKAYI HIGHWAY AND GOBO TO MKHUHLANE ROAD

          22. HON. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House what plans are in place to construct the following roads:

          (I) Kwekwe to Nkayi

          (II) Gobo to Mkhuhlane road-Python

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADANHA): Mr. Speaker Sir, Kwekwe-Nkayi road is a secondary road linking the Harare-Bulawayo road to the Bulawayo-Victoria Falls road.  In addition to serving local communities, the road provides a shorter route to Victoria Falls, which is a major tourist centre.  The Kwekwe to Nkayi section is 93.6 km.

          The first 36,7km of the road is a narrow matt constructed before independence and the rest is gravel which was graded recently.  This road was earmarked for upgrading to a surfaced/tarred standard in 1999, but funding to do this has not been available.  There are proposals to construct the road under a Private Public Partnership (PPP) initiative.

          Gobo-Mkhuhlane Road – Mr. Speaker Sir, the road being mentioned is not under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transport and infrastructural Development.  It could be under DDF or Rural District Council who will be engaged to advise of their plans. Thank you.

          HON. GABBUZA: The Minister mentioned that it is being proposed to be constructed under a PPP but my recollection is that this is one of the roads that were advertised to be constructed under a PPP.  Could be the Minister be in a position to update us of what happened after that advert, were there no takers, what is the current position?

          HON. MADANHA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  The Hon. Member has answered the question.  Definitely, we have not found any takers for this PPP.  Sometimes you cannot get funding, it is not easy, it is not just walking in the streets and get a financier.  So, we are still looking for a potential financier.  We have the hope that we will eventually get one.  I thank you.

          HON. NDUNA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I will preface my supplementary as follows: - in this road that we are speaking about, I was also a contractor back in the 2000.  However, this road is infested with mining houses and mines of multinationals.  I will touch on four of them that are Jena Mine, Queens Mine, Esabella and Sandboy Mine.  What plans does the Ministry have in order to be imbedded or to be in consultation with these miners who are utilizing this Kwekwe-Nkayi road for their own benefit, extracting our God given mineral recourses to plough back some of the output or some of the gross takings to the infrastructure development because this road has been in a derelict state for a very long time.

          HON. MADANHA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think it is common knowledge that as a Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure Development, we do not have the funds to work on the road. So the way forward as of now and something that we have already experimented and we have got results to show, is partnership which is mutually beneficial to all parties involved. This can be engaging the private companies together with us the Public Sector so that we can do the road.

It is common knowledge that as a Ministry, we are interested in the secure and safe movement of goods and services and the private sector is the one which produces products which should be moved from point A to point B and it is to their interest also that they should partner with the Government to build roads.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, we have got examples like the Plumtree-Harare-Mutare Road which was build under PPP and we also have the Chiredzi Airport which was also built under PPP. So this is the way forward as of now. When we want to look for funds, we have to market ourselves so that we can get private partners to finance the works. I thank you.

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

RELEASE OF SUSPECTS IN CUSTODY

16.  HON. CROSS asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

a)                To state if it is Government policy to allow senior members of the Executive arm of the  State to order the release of suspects arrested on criminal charges from Police custody;

 (b)    To state whether the two Executives released from Police Custody in Avondale, Harare under the instruction of the Acting President have been rearrested and  if they are being prosecuted by the National Prosecuting Authority ;

(c)     To report whether any kind of force was used during the release and if so to state what action  the Ministry is taking  to ensure that the Vice President responsible for this incident, apologises to the Nation as a whole for his actions and to the Police in particular; and

 

(d)     To state whether any physical injuries to the Police Officers on Duty were sustained during the incident and to inform the House whether the Vice President would be required to pay compensation to the Officers affected.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO):  The suspects referred to in this question were brought to police holding cells by the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission and the police only provided detention facilities.  As a result of this Government has asked CGP to look at the matter and will give this august House the answer in due course. 

POLICE BASE FOR NTINGWE IN SILOBELA

17.  HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House when Ntigwe in the Silobela Constituency will have a Police Base considering incidents of stock theft and violence in the area which have resulted in people living in fear.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO):  The Ministry wants a police base to be established in the Silobela Constituency but the issue of funds is delaying the project.  When funds become available, the Constituency will be considered.  I also urge members to assist in any way possible to raise funds or donations that will enable a proper police base to be established.

VEHICLE FOR SILOBELA POLICE

18.  HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to state when the Silobela Police would have a vehicle allocated to enable Police Officers to effectively execute their mandate.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON. DR. CHOMBO):  The new defender vehicle that was allocated to Silobela Police Station was involved in a road accident four months ago and is currently undergoing repairs at Police Bulawayo Regional Workshop.  The vehicle will be back at the station soon once all the repairs have been completed.

          Questions with notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.

FIRST READING

PUBLIC PROCUREMENT AND DISPOSAL OF PUBLIC ASSETS BILL [H.B. 5, 2016]

          THE MNISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA) presented the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Bill [H. B. 5, 2016]

          Bill read the first time.

          Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.

FIRST READING

ZEP-RE (MEMBERSHIP OF ZIMBABWE AND BRANCH OFFICE AGREEMENT) BILL [H. B. 9, 2016]

THE MNISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA) presented the ZEP-REP (Membership of Zimbabwe and Branch Office Agreement) Bill [H. B. 9, 2016].

Bill read the first time.

          Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.

On the motion of THE MNISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MADE), the House adjourned at Ten Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.

 

National Assembly Hansard Vol. 43 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 16 NOVEMBER 2016 VOL 43 NO 12