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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD - 2 OCTOBER 2013 VOL. 40 NO. 7

Wednesday, 2nd October, 2013.

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o'clock p.m.

 

PRAYERS

(MR. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR. SPEAKER

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, can you take your seat. I will be making a special announcement tomorrow concerning what the eyes have seen.

SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES

MR. SPEAKER: May I request and remind hon. members to please switch off their cellphones before business commences.

APPOINTMENT TO THE STANDING RULES AND ORDERS COMMITTEE

MR. SPEAKER: I would like to inform the House that pursuant to Section 151 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, Parliament must appoint a Committee to be known as the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. In line with the provisions of Section 151 (2) (c) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, His Excellency, the President Cde. R. G. Mugabe has appointed the following to be the members of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders:

Hon. P. A. Chinamasa, Minister of Finance and Economic Planning); Hon. Dr. S. T. Sekeramayi, Minister of Defence; Hon. S.G.G. Nyoni, Minister of Small Enterprises and Co-operative Development.

Pursuant to Section 151 Subsection (2) (d) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, Hon. E.D. Mnangagwa has been appointed as the Leader of Government business in Parliament.

In line with Sections 151 Subsection (2) (e) and Section 151 Subsection (2) (f) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, MDC has made the following appointments to the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders:- Hon. T. Khupe, Leader of the Opposition in each House. Hon. I. Gonese, Chief Whip in the National Assembly. Hon. S. Mlotshwa, Chief Whip in the Senate. We are still awaiting other members to be appointed to the Committee in terms of Section 151, Subsection (2) (h) and Section 151, Subsection (2) (i) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.

PROHIBITION OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES DURING SITTINGS OF PARLIAMENT

MR. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that the Members' bar will, with immediate effect not serve any alcoholic beverages during the sittings of the House. -[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- only soft drinks will be served.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR. CHIBAYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Information, Hon. Mandiwanzira. It has been reported in the media that your Ministry intends to spy on citizens' conversations on cell phones and also on internet. Is this not violating our own Constitution on the freedom of association? I thank you.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (MR. MANDIWANZIRA): Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you very much. The Hon. Member of Parliament is somewhat ill informed about the functions of the Ministry of Information, Media and Broadcasting Services. We have no jurisdiction whatsoever on the issues that he has highlighted.

DR. LABODE: Mr. Speaker Sir, my question goes to the Deputy Minister for Health and Child Care. I would like to know what is the Government's plan on Kusile Hospital in Bulawayo? The Hospital was built about ten years ago and it is still non-functional.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (DR. CHIMEDZA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. member, let me inform you that it is not only Kusile Hospital that is not functioning well. There are other facilities that are also not functioning well, and it has been a result of a lot of issues and bigger among them being sanctions and because of the issue of sanctions, even the then Minister of Health failed to get Kusile to work. But, let me pleasantly inform you that we have plans to resuscitate all these institutions and it is going to happen in the shortest possible time. So you are going to be happy. We are working on it diligently. Thank you.

MR. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. In the absence of the Minister of Finance, my question is directed to the Leader of the House. Hon. Minister, the money market is getting tighter with banks failing to lend money to current and prospective business people. Can you explain to the House, what the Government is doing to alleviate the problem of cash in this country?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (MR. MNANGAGWA): I thank the hon. member for asking that pertinent question. What you say is true. We are doing our best to correct what the former Minister was unable to correct. Above all, the incidences of sanctions which we have been talking about, these are some of the results of the sanctions that that side of the House called for. I thank you.

MR. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would want to know from you Sir, if I am allowed to ask Hon. Ministers all at once in their different ministries or I have to do it one by one?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, when I say order Hon. Member, you sit down. Can you please ask your question?

MR. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question goes to the Minister of Mines. I want to know what Government policy is regarding the people whose land has been designated for mining, regarding compensation….

An hon. member having passed between Mr. Speaker and the hon. member holding the floor.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, there is an hon. member who has broken a rule. You do not cross in between the hon. member standing and the Chair. Hon. member can you proceed?

MR. NDUNA: I want to ask the Minister of Mines what Government policy is regarding people whose land would have been designated for mining purposes. I say this because in my part of the constituency …

MR. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Nduna, you preface your question first. You cannot preface the question after.

MR. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I apologise, I will preface first. -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]_

MR. SPEAKER: Order, can you give him an ear? Can you carry on?

MR. NDUNA: I want to ask the Minister of Mines, what is Government policy regarding the people whose land would have been designated for mining purposes?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (MR. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank the hon. member for that question and say to him that, there are two pieces of legislation that apply to the situation that you are referring to - that is the Land Act and the Mines and Minerals Act.

The current situation is that, the Mines and Minerals Act predominates over the Land Act. It has created the problems that we have where if somebody wants to prospect for minerals, they will come on the basis of the Mines and Minerals Act, and start doing their work whether it is prospecting, which is hunting for minerals or it is mining and so on and so forth. We have then seen the discord between the farmer and the miner and have said, as of the current situation, we have told our Commissioners in the various areas to ensure that there is a good working rapport between the miners. Yes, the miner has the right to go and prospect for gold, chrome or whatever it is but he must go to the Mining Commissioner to seek his assistance to talk to the agriculturalist or the land owner in terms of agriculture so that there are good relations between the two of them.

So, that has not resolved the problem completely and it is one of those things that you will see when we start bringing the Mines and Minerals Act for discussion in Parliament. I hope that the outcome at the end of that discussion will ensure that there is a good relationship between the agriculturalist and the miner. Thank you.

MR. CHIMANIKIRE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Information. Currently, there are reports that ZBC workers are on hunger strike because of non-payment of salaries over a period of five months. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy as regards collective bargaining in your parastatal, ZBC and what interventions have you put in place as to what is going on right now?

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (MR. MANDIWANZIRA): Thank your Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank Hon. Chimanikire for asking that question. Obviously, the hon. member is very concerned about the situation that has affected the employees of the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation (ZBC).

I would like to assure him that the Ministry of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services is equally concerned about the developments at the national broadcaster. I must hasten to add that we have had no representation from the ZBC Board, Management or the employees on what exactly is going on. We have taken note, based on the reports that have come out in the newspaper, but we do not necessarily believe that everything has been said.

We are very concerned as a Ministry and are engaging with all the parastatals under the Ministry to understand what is going on. At this particular juncture, we are trying to establish the state of affairs at ZBC as well as at other parastatals that fall under the Ministry. I can assure the House and the hon. member that as soon as we have all the issues on our finger tips and have come to grips with them, we will certainly inform the House.

I would like to assure him and the entire House, Hon. Speaker Sir, that we will do everything possible to ensure that our national broadcaster and its employees and management are working in harmony and that it is dispensing its duty as a national broadcaster.

MR. MAHLANGU: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. What is the Government policy towards embarking on a mining exploration to ascertain the quantity of minerals that the country possesses to avoid speculation?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (MR. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker, a very relevant question from the hon. member. One of the things that we need to do is, we have said that we are a very rich country but when we are asked the question, how rich are you? We are not able to say, we are rich to this extent in terms of gold, platinum or any other mineral for that matter.

I think that it is important for us to ensure that the Ministry's Department of Geology is strengthened to ensure that the entire country is explored, so that we know the quantities of inferred established mineral content and be able to say when we go out there to look for investors; we will say, this is the amount of chrome that we have and we want to establish a project of this magnitude. For as long as we do not do that, we will not be able to engage in serious business either with ourselves or with international partners. So, thank you for that question.

MR. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines. Hon. Minister, it is no secret, the ZMDC saga, the matter is not before the Courts so it is not sub judice. What are you doing as a Minister to institute an independent probe to ensure that we deal with corruption in this country?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (MR. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you to the hon. member for that question. We recognise the need to deal with corruption and there are many things that we are trying to do to ensure that there is no corruption.

One of the things that we are doing is, when you have Claims out there, people go out and prospect and they now want to apply for claims because the system is not sufficiently documented and because there is a possibility of certain documentation not being made available that is taken advantage of. You have a situation where mistakes are made and you get double allocations on the same claims and that results in litigation. This is where we come from when we get that litigation.

What we are trying to do is to put in place a system called the Cadastre System which basically divides the whole country into boxes. We get our addresses from those boxes and we are able to say this claim is between these points on the map. Once you put it on the computer you cannot allocate that claim to anybody else because the computer will say it has already been allocated. We hope that will deal with the first level of corruption.

The second level of corruption arises out of disputes between people who have gone into a joint venture partnership. With my experience from the Zimbabwe Investment Centre that has been there since time immemorial; people go into a joint venture with foreign partners and they disagree somewhere down the line and they start wanting because sometimes it is greed and sometimes it is just wanting to take over. They now want to take over what they will have built together.

Those are difficult situations to deal with. The particular saga that you were referring to which involves ZMDC and a Ghanaian investor, I have instructed that we get as much information as possible. Unfortunately, the team that I have asked to speak to the various involved people has not yet been able to get the Ghanaian partner and you are aware that the Ghanaian partner is in fact the complainant and he is supposed to come to complain. We will make efforts to ensure that the situation is resolved so that mining continues to happen.

I want to assure this House that this country cannot succeed until and unless we deal seriously with the issue of corruption - [HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear]. As the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, working together with our colleagues in the system, we are determined to ensure that the issue of corruption is dealt with. You heard the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe speak openly, candidly and in a very strong way that we do not tolerate corruption and that is what we are going to do.

MR. MADZIMURE : The reason why the Ghanaian partner might be difficult to find is that he has already been threatened with arrest if he comes to Zimbabwe. Are you going to ensure that, that partner will safely come to Zimbabwe and is not threatened?

MR. CHIDHAKWA : The question is not a policy question. It is not the policy of the Zimbabwe Government, including the Ministry of Home Affairs under which the Zimbabwe Republic Police reports to, to bar people from coming to Zimbabwe. We will ensure that whoever is barring if there is any such thing, that it does not happen. It does not stop us from talking to the various parties that are involved but certainly it is not our policy to have people barred out of coming particularly when these people have got their investments in Zimbabwe.

MS. CHIRISA : In the absence of the Minister of Transport, my question is directed to the Leader of the House. Does the Plumtree to Forbes Boarder Post road have a timeframe because it has been going on and on. There is a lot of traffic on this particular road?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (MR. MNANGAGWA ): I thank the hon. member for asking that question of concern to her constituency or area of concern. Indeed, the issue of whether the road has concerns or problems, is an issue which you should write down so that the minister will be able to go and investigate those allegations and come back with an answer.

MR. HARITATOS : My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. I am very much concerned that the price of gold is going down and a lot of mines are closing down, what is the Ministry and the Government doing about it?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (MR. CHIDHAKWA ): The hon. member speaks from a point of knowledge. It is true that the price of gold has come down to US$1300 and it is also true that some of our mines are doing a cost-per-ounce of US$1750 to US$1800 in some cases. When you look at that situation it tells us that we need to do much more to reduce the cost of production particularly of gold and other minerals as well.

When you ask the question what is feeding into the cost - obviously the issue of power and domestic costs come into play. The issue of power is what we have identified as one of the things that we must look after. In power, it is not just the cost of power, but it is also the quality of that power because it goes and comes back. When it goes, the mines are flooded and when the mines are flooded, the cost of pushing out the water pushes up your cost of production. It is important for us to deal with the issues of power.

We have had the occasion to meet the Minister of Energy and the Minister of Finance to discuss exactly that point and what we need to do in respect of gold. I am sure that the recommendations and proposals will be made public as soon as Cabinet looks at those proposals. The gold sector is an important sector especially when you look at the small scale sector. From a contribution of very little gold, now they contribute 11 tonnes of gold to this country. The question is much bigger than that. It goes on to say, are we able to capture all that gold into our system so that it is refined at Fidelity Printers and it is exported from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. These are all questions that we must ask and questions that we must deal with as a matter of urgency. I assure you that we will deal with them. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

MS. D. SIBANDA: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. When will Anjin and Mbada Diamonds resume the relocation of the families in the Chiadzwa area as promised in 2010?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (MR. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I do not think that I will be able to give you a full response right now. I have not yet had the occasion to go onto the ground to see what is there. I am aware that between Anjin and Mbada Diamonds, over 500 houses were built. In my capacity, in my previous life as Deputy Minister of State Enterprises and Pararastatals, we had an occasion to go and see the houses that were built by these two companies. We also saw the houses that were built by other companies. I thought that the process, particularly by Anjin and Mbada Diamonds, had been completed unless there are other people who may not have been included in the first exercise that needed to be included in the second exercise. What I am aware of is that they have done something. I will be going there and at that point, I will be able to tell you and confirm that the programme had been completed. Thank you.

*MR. CHINOTIMBA: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I have got two questions… -[HON. MEMEBRS: Inaudible interjections]-

*MR. SPEAKER: Order, Order, hon. member. You are allowed to ask one question.

*MR. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Minister, is it legal that when Members of Parliament get into the House, they stand up for two or three people? Even the Speaker when he gets in the House, even me too? -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible

interjections ]-

*MR. SPEAKER: Your question has been heard. The reply to your question will be addressed tomorrow.

MRS. MUZUNGU-MASAITI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to…

MR. HLONGWANE having entertained a call in the House.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, one of the announcements I made as we started business, I said, we must switch off our cell phones. Hon. Hlongwane was entertaining a call in this hon. House. I therefore request the Serjeant-At-Arms to escort him out of the House?

MR. HLONGWANE was consequently escorted out of the House by the Serjeant-At-Arms.

MRS. MUZUNGU-MASAITI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Considering the economic hardships that the people of Zimbabwe are currently going through, is it now Government policy that students with parents who would have failed to pay school fees before schools open, are chased away from attending lessons on the first day of opening schools without giving them a grace period to pay the school fees?

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCAITON (MR. DOKORA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I wish to start by thanking the hon. member for asking the question. On a second score, I also wish to thank the member for acknowledging, in her question, the hardships that have affected education in this country. As the hon. member and others here would be familiar, the hardships are consequences of sanctions. It is important Mr. Speaker that the cost of education in this country, while we attempt to hold it at the lowest level as possible, we still expect the generality of our population to contribute to its sustenance. Those vulnerable groups in our communities such as orphans, child-headed families and so on, we expect that the Government, the basic education assistance module BEAM would come in. Mr. Speaker, both the BEAM scheme as well as the family incomes of the parents in our communities of school going age pupils do not always measure up at the beginning of each term. Therefore, I enjoin every parent who has had difficulties in meeting the levies to engage the school heads and make arrangements for part payments of their obligations to the school institutions. I thank you.

Oral Answers to Questions without notice were interrupted by MR. SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 34 .

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: I -o6e that Order of the Day Number 1 "e stood over until the rest of the Orders are disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

ATTACK ON THE WESTGATE MALL IN NAIROBI

MR. G MOYO: I move the motion standing in my name that this House:-

RECALLS attacks by the!terrorist group Al-Shabaab on Westgate Mall in Nairobi, Ken}a;

DEEPYLY SADDENED by dhe death of sixty-two people and one hundred and seventy-five people who(sustained injuries as a result of this terrorist attack;

NOW, THEREFORE condemns The at|ack on vhe"Westgate Mall in Nairobi, Kenia and Express its condolencms to the families who lost thdir loveä ones and our solidarity wit( t`e people of Kenya at this trying time.

MR. CROSS: I wecond.

MR. G. MOYO: Mr. Specker$Sir, may I draw the attention of this august Ho5se to!the recent Killings in Naarobi, Kenya on the 21st September, 2013. May I implore Mr. Speaker Sir, this House to convey a message of solidarity, to convey a message of condolence, to pay a tribute of honour and courage to the innocent lives, to the defenceless citizens, to women and children in the heart of Africa, in East Africa, in Kenya. I move this motion because Mr. Speaker Sir, Africa has been pricked. The conscience of Africa has been pricked.

Mr. Speaker, over seventy people, defenceless citizens were massacred, brutalised in cowardly attacks and over 170 people were wounded. This House should pass and convey a message of condolence to the families of the deceased and to our fellow Parliamentarians in Kenya who are seized with this matter. Mr. Speaker, I am alive to the sensibilities of this subject but I think we have a duty as Zimbabweans, as Pan Africans to condemn in strongest terms the attacks whether in dictionaries or in whatever corpus.

We need to condemn the perpetrators of the callous, cruel and criminal acts. We need to condemn the merchants and interlocutors of these acts. According to media reports, Al Shabaab is implicated. I have no empirical evidence and I am not suggesting that I am aware that it was Al Shabaab or Al Qaeda but whoever was responsible, I think as Zimbabweans, as Pan Africans we should condemn this.

One of the survivors is a son of Zimbabwe. I read his story which is recounted on the Southern Eye of 28th September, 2013. A Mr. Norman Siluwa who hails from Lobengula, Bulawayo, if you read his story, how he survived, you will agree with me that as this House, we should condemn the cruel acts that took place. Acts of terrorism should not be allowed. I am not talking about terrorism with reference to our heroes who were fighting against colonialism under apartheid, I am talking about terrorism as defined - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order, may I ask the hon. member to aver the correct nomenclature unless if he is making an allegation of the nomenclature 'terrorist'.

MR. G. MOYO: I was saying Mr. Speaker; I am referring to terrorism as defined by the Algiers Convention of 1999 where the African Union came up with a protocol which defines what terrorism is according to the Convention on Prevention and Combating of Terrorism of 1999. Terrorism is an act of killing innocent people, that precludes our war veterans, that precludes freedom fighters - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order, order! Is there a point of order?

MS. ZINDI: Yes please Mr. Speaker, a point of order!

MR. SPEAKER: Yes.

MS. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for recognising me. I am reacting to Hon. Moyo's connotation or definition and the implication on that term - terrorist - when he refers that 'including' if I am to quote his words - [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections].

MR. ZWIZWAI: Precluding, chirungu. You will be in the newspaper that haugoni chirungu, Advocate vazvinzwa kuti haugoni chirungu, fambai nema dictionary.

MR. SPEAKER: With all due respect Hon. Zindi, perhaps the diction of the Hon. Moyo might not have caught your ears. He meant exactly what you are trying to correct - [AN HON MEMBER: Masanctions!] - so there is no point of order - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections].

MS. ZINDI: Thank you - [AN HON MEMBER: You do not contest against the Speaker]. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Chibaya! Hon. Chibaya! Yes, you wanted to say something?

MS ZINDI: Yes Mr. Speaker, thank you for recognising me once again. My apologies for having not gotten the word as you have corrected me. Thank you for that but, all I want to remind the House is that it is an emotional issue and possibly this is - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections].

MR. ZWIZWAI: Chigara pasi do not contest. Mave kuzofamba muchiti MDC iparty yevarungu manjenokuti chirungu chawandisa muParliament.

MS. ZINDI: Mr. Speaker I am of the opinion that I should make it very loud and clear - [AN HON MEMBER: Kutii?] - and certainly whoever is heckling me, they are here as a result of war veterans and it is an emotional issue - [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections].

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Moyo please.

MR. G. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.

MR SPEAKER: Order, can you allow him to speak.

MR. G. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I was only referring to a Pan African definition which is shared by all Africans in the mainland of Africa and in the diaspora. Pan Africanists all share on the definition of terrorism as defined in the Convention on Prevention and Combating of Terrorism (Algius Convention) of 1999. Article 1(3a) and Article 3 defines what terrorism is. It does not at all - our nationalist leaders, when they met, they would not in any way undermine the work that has been done in decolonising Africa, not at all and I am not in any way insinuating that. All I am saying is that; we are precluding - [HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear].

MR. SPEAKER: Order.

MR. G. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, may I continue to say, what happened between the 21st of September and the 24th of September at the Westgate Shopping Mall in Kenya was really bad. One of the Pan Africanist sons, one of the doyens of Africanism, Professor Kofi Anowa was also brutalised; a person who has worked in the literal world to message the challenges of Africa against the Euro- American imperatives. He has done that. That is the person who also lost his life and I think this House should convey that message.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I was listening to the reports on how these people were killed. Mr. Speaker, if these reports are anything to go by Mr. Speaker Sir, most of the people had their eyes removed before they were killed, had their nose plucked out before they were killed and had their balls gushed out by pliers before they were killed. Some of them, according to the reports were hanged on hooks in the ceilings, which means people were tortured, innocent blood. People were tortured before they were killed.

Children were found in fridges with knives still stuck on their bodies and I think this House needs to condemn that and condemn it in no uncertain terms, the impact of this kind of terrorism against humanity, against the conscience of Africa, and against everybody who cares. For Kenya, I am sure we are aware that Kenya is a country that strives among others on tourism. With this kind of brutalisation, its economy is going to suffer and yet the second decade of the 21st century should be a decade of development, a decade of transformation, a decade of Africa, but we have these kind of criminal acts taking place and I think that should be condemned.

In fact, Zimbabwe is not free. When Kenya is in trouble, Zimbabwe is not free. No African country is free. More so, with Kenya, after the discovery of oil, much more gas around the off-coasts of the Indian Ocean from Chiputa up to Mozambique, we have serious problems and some of you are aware that the most wanted woman, the so called White Widow, is reported to have been in South Africa which is just next door. This is the kind of a person who is implicated in these callous criminal and cruel acts of barbarism. Therefore as Zimbabweans, I think it is important and as Parliamentarians, I think it is important to stand shoulder to shoulder with our colleagues in Kenya, to cry with them, to mourn with them and send messages of solidarity. I am sure, that in the Bible; from the Bible to the Koran, the shedding of innocent blood is diabolic, is luciferical and it should not be accepted at all and I am sure this House is going to accept that and I hope Mr. Speaker Sir, in our country and in this Parliament, we are not going to have any innocent blood shed during this time around. I thank you.

MR. CROSS: It is going to be a pleasure working under you for the next 5-years. I have enjoyed your interventions so far and I enjoyed your opening remarks at the seminar, I thought they were very worthwhile.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to second this motion because I think it is important for us as a country to stand with the people of Kenya at this particular point in time. I think Kenyans have shown us an example of how to work together. I think that the example of unity of purpose and the reaction to this disaster has been an example to the whole of Africa. It is important for us to stand and share our condolences with the people of Kenya and I hope that as a result of this motion, those condolences will be expressed by you to the Kenyan Ambassador as soon as possible.

In addition to that, it is important for us to stand in solidarity with the people of Kenya. We must recognise that what happened in Kenya can happen to any of us. We must also recognise that the only way we can really defend our freedoms is by constant vigilance. We must not think, Mr. Speaker Sir, that we are immune to this kind of activity. We could be subjected to similar attacks of a similar nature at any time. The price of freedom is vigilance and that has been true throughout the history.

We need, Mr. Speaker Sir, a special unit of the armed forces to be trained to deal with emergencies such as this. I would like, in addition to that, to ask our security agencies to increase their vigilance. I think experience in the last decade in the world has shown us that such vigilance is in the interest of everybody. This is not a partisan issue and I would hope that this motion today, will be accepted by this House on a non-partisan basis and our entire condolences can be conveyed to the people of Kenya.

MS. CHIMENE: Mr. Speaker, I would have wanted to debate in English as has been requested by those who are friendly with the whites. I will debate in Shona because I represent people in the rural areas. The motion that has been moved here Mr. Speaker, is a very good motion because it is a motion that makes us reflect as a country. I want to thank the hon. member who has moved this motion and the hon. member who seconded. It is sorrowful to be in bereavement. It is painful, especially when it involves terrorist attacks.

It makes us reflect back. I am a daughter of Makoni, where my grandfather, Mr. Chingaira also died in the same manner and up to today, his head is outside the country. The people there know that they have someone's head whose body is buried in Zimbabwe. I want to thank those who moved this motion. We mourn together with the people of Kenya because it really pains us to think of having a war. These are just the signs of war.

Here, where we work and stay, we have a sculpture of Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi. They did not commit suicide. They were murdered for their own country just like what happened in Kenya where people were murdered for the resources of their country. We look at South Africa, the school children in Soweto also died in a similar manner. It is not an issue that we can joke about but it is an issue that needs us to reflect, each one of us where we are seated.

At Nyadzonia, there are so many thousands of people who were also murdered in cold blood. At Chimoio, there are also hundreds and hundreds of people who were murdered in cold blood. Same as at the Freedom Camp, there are also thousands and thousands of those who were murdered for their country. Even here in this country, Gukurahundi that is being mentioned here, it is because of what is happening in Kenya. They are those who think that they can take the country backwards so that we have conflict in this country. The reason why we have conflicts is because among us blacks, there are those who think that the blood that was shed is not enough as yet.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say that we heard that in Kenya more than hundred people died. We went to Chibondo in 2011 and exhumed bodies and buried them in a proper manner. There was a mass grave and there were 843 bodies of people who were reburied. As we speak, on Saturday, there is a place in Rusape at the Heroes' Acre which was known as the Butcher where 115 people of Zimbabwe were killed whilst fighting for their country and these will be buried this Saturday. …

MR. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Matangira, can you hold your own and control yourself.

* MS. CHIMENE: I am saying that now we are going to re-bury those who were buried long back. I want this House to mourn together with those in Kenya and at the same time mourn those here in Zimbabwe. My concern is that, what happened in Kenya can also happen here in future because no one knows who is responsible and why it is being done and I request that the security forces, through the service chiefs that security and the defence forces should be strengthened. They should be prepared so that we do not allow that. Mr. Speaker Sir, we look at the issue of the office of ZANU PF that was burnt, if there were people there, they would have perished like what happened in Kenya. We are requesting that we should mourn with those people in Kenya with hope. We are going to send our condolences as children of Zimbabwe. As War Veterans, we know the pain that is associated with war.

We are asking ourselves, is war going to come back? We are going to be seated but with fear that are we not the ones who are going to be burnt here in Parliament or in the areas where we are going to be. Mr. Speaker Sir, I request that this House, as we debate this motion, we should know that this incident has blood in it and it takes our memory back to the war time. It brings a lot of anger as Hon. Zindi has said. I thank you.

*MS. MABUWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank you for this opportunity you gave to me. I would like to add my voice to Hon. Moyo's contribution on the motion of terrorism in Kenya. Whilst we mourn, we should not accuse each other of witchcraft but we should just pay our condolences. Accusing each other of witchcraft is not ideal especially if they are mere accusations. This is an issue that I think we should consider when sending our condolences. I heard some speakers saying that we are speaking as Africans and Pan Africans. So, I was thinking that since we have the President of America, a gallant son of Kenya where all this terrorism is taking place; we can take this opportunity to remind him to take action where there is an incident like what has happened. He must know how his leadership will affect back home.

In African tradition, he must go and pay condolences when such incidences occur. Is it going to affect someone when you just point out the witch, if he or she is the one that has been accused? This is the issue we should look at when we send the message of condolence.

I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

MR. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me this opportunity to debate this very important issue. Firstly, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. G. Moyo and the seconder, Hon. E. Cross. Indeed, Mr. Speaker Sir, the scourge of terrorism, worldwide, knows no age, knows no clan and knows no race. The tragedy in Kenya from the 21st to the 24th of September took everyone by surprise because on African soil, we did not expect our fellow Africans to behave in the manner that they did. Indeed terrorism is not only a threat to world order but it is also a threat to the security of Africa as a whole.

In Africa, we have various organisations either on the pretext of religion or thriving on the confusion as is in Somalia of a country that has gone without a Government for over 25 years. Various groups take advantage and embark on errands like what happened at Westgate in Kenya. Yes, I would like to second what has been said by Hon. Moyo that Kenya does thrive on tourism and against the background of the just ended UNWTO Conference in Victoria Falls; this comes as a very sad development.

Mr. Speaker Sir, we read every day and watch on our various communication mediums what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan but it does seem like the chickens have come home to roost. Within the protocols of SADC and AU, are provisions where Africa in advance did condemn such acts and indeed, I would like to add my voice to those who condemn such acts as what happened in Nairobi.

Zimbabwe, as the last speaker has urged, should be vigilant inasmuch as we were vigilant when we apprehended those coup plotters who were trying to pass through Harare. If that kind of vigilance is maintained Mr. Speaker Sir, because terrorism knows no borders and does not make an appointment. Therefore, we need to be ready to deal with it as and when it arises. With those words Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to propose that this House put its signatures on condolences to be delivered to the Kenyan Embassy in Harare in solidarity with those who suffered from these dastardly acts in Nairobi. I thank you.

MS. ZINDI : Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to support the mover and the seconder of this motion and I share my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims. While I am sharing my sympathy with the families of the victims, I have a number of questions to pause. Reading in the newspapers, we hear of Al-Shabaab, Al-Qaeda, global terrorism and the 'white widow' who is of British origin is linked somehow, though I cannot confirm but according to the Press reports, the lady is linked. She is an ex-wife of a former British soldier, also linked to one of a Priest, if I may call him, well known for spreading hatred speeches in the papers. Once deported from Britain to Jamaica and the same Moslem Priest having met with the 'white widow' in South Africa and the lady being at the centre or being linked to this Nairobi Westgate terrorist attack in Kenya. The questions that I would like to pose for example;- to me it seems like it is a spider's web. Why am I saying so? In one of the press reports, Cameroon and Obama were mentioned as targets in their personal capacities. This is related to the same terrorist attack that took place in Nairobi at the Westgate Mall. You would ask yourself a question and say why would Cameroon and Obama be made targets and be linked to the Westgate attack that took place in Nairobi?

Again another thought is; somehow, this is bitterness which is now being expressed because these individuals I have just mentioned, as I am reading in the papers; they are of British origin linked with Americans, Al-Qaeda and Al-Shabaab whose main base is Somalia. We know Somalia has been in anarchy; anarchy has been the order of the day in Somalia. Does it mean that the so-called powerful nations if they really wanted to restore order in Somalia should we not be having order in Somalia? Are we not seeing a situation; the same so called powerful nations exploiting the situation? They create disorder in order to exploit. Really do we have a mind of saying we need to save the people of Somalia? We have seen Kenyans going into Somalia trying to restore order in that country. Is it not now that Somalia or the Al-Shabaab is now coming to attack the Kenyans because they are trying to take a step to try and restore order in Somalia? This is a question.

Reading again in the press, I hear that MI6 which is the British Intelligence; they passed information to South Africa where this 'white widow' flew into South Africa using a different name. I think the second name was Webb, with passports clandestinely produced; how? One does not know but she got those passports for herself and her two daughters. They flew into South Africa while South Africa had already received information that this lady should be monitored but we hear that the lady was there. She even got a job; racked a debt of close to US$10 000 and she could not pay back that debt. She disappeared. But for all that time she was there unmonitored while information is readily available that this lady is one of the wanted women in the world; she is dangerous but nobody squirmed about it. Now, the question is; is it deliberate? Is it well connected to the nations who are also facilitating all these acts of terrorism? I think it is a question for all of us to understand where we are headed.

On that note, I heard the seconder of the motion actually raising the issue of us as Zimbabwe to be vigilant. Yes, we will be vigilant and always be vigilant, but I think it is yesterday or two days ago, I was reading in the press again where Botswana was cleansing itself, saying that it halted a possible civil war in Zimbabwe at the time of the 2008 election dispute. Then you ask yourself a question; halting a civil war? Who would have wanted to go to war? With who? We Zimbabweans? You ask yourself a question; why would Botswana want to cleanse itself immediately after this attack in Kenya?

Therefore, I am saying; the bugging which is a new measure that has been taken by the Government in order to have data on all telephones, emails, you name it. It is the right move -[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- the Government has taken this move because it is one step ahead in terms of being vigilant. If anything takes place, we know we have got the data and we know who has been communicating with whom on what subject. We are able to get that information.

I know that there is an outrage out there to say that is getting into people's privacy and it is not supposed to be like that. But for me, because of the kind of the world that we are living in today, that is the right move. We are not the only country that has enacted such an instrument. The United States and Britain itself have enacted such instruments. Two or three months ago, there was an uproar; the British trying to conceal the information of how they have put all these gadgets and what have you in the Middle East in order for them to be snooping on information in the Middle East to safeguard their interest and they defended themselves.

So why would we not do the same thing if they are doing it? South Africa did it but for some unknown reason, they had to reverse that decision. Possibly, they just made a statement to say they have repealed that decision but possibly, they are still implementing that decision.

In seconding this motion, I would also want to bring it to the attention of this House that it is really a noble move that has been taken by the movers. Again, a question again arises - as Hon. Chimene has mentioned earlier on about the Chibondo, the Butcher;- they sing so much about Gukurahundi -[AN HON. MEMBER: Who?]- the MDC. They sing so much about the Gukurahundi -[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- I am not condoning it, all I am saying is; why would we not see MDC-T Members of Parliament in here as they are heckling me to have taken a similar step:- symphathising with the Chibondo, Rusape Butcher, Nyadzonya, Freedom Camp -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! Carry on.

MS. ZINDI: Symphathising with Tembwe, Tete, Chimoio, Morogoro, Nachingwea, Zambia and all the bases out there where we left a whole lot of comrades out there. It is a question.

MR. MAHLANGU: On a point of order. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order is that the hon. member is out of order. She must stick to the motion. The issues that she is mentioning, if she wants those issues to be debated Mr. Speaker Sir, -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Can I be protected Mr. Speaker Sir?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, may the hon. member please make a brief point of order?

MR. MAHLANGU: Mr. Speaker Sir, the hon. member is out of order. The issues that she is mentioning are not part of this motion. If she wants to move other motions, then we debate them here, she has that right to do so. I thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member, will you carry on?

MS. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for protecting me. When the point of order was raised, I was mentioning the issue of MDC-T hon. members here heckling me for having mentioned that they have been on the forefront of moving a motion in order to sympathise with Kenyans which I am not saying …

MR. SPEAKER: Order, hon. member, do not repeat yourself. I think the point has been made. Please carry on.

MS. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. In conclusion Mr. Speaker, I would like to also point out that it is important that I raise the issue of us as ZANU PF Members of Parliament, we are demonstrating our maturity in the sense that the MDC-T Members of Parliament are raising their motions and here we are, for a good cause, supporting their motion. Likewise, we would also like to see them responding to the Presidential Speech and we will never stop schooling them by the way because …

MR. SPEAKER: Order, hon. member, please use Parliamentary language.

MS. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I withdraw the word 'schooling'.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.

MS. ZINDI: Anyway, as I was concluding, we are showing or demonstrating our maturity, we would also want in return to see the same kind of maturity from MDC-T Members of Parliament by having to respond to the Presidential Speech. Issues raised in the Presidential Speech, are issues of the nation and to do with the wellbeing of also the members or their constituencies which chose them or elected them to be in this House. Therefore, they need to respond. I thank you Mr. Speaker.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR. SPEAKER

PARKING OF VEHICLES IN THIRD STREET

CAR PARK

MR. SPEAKER: I hope this should be the last announcement I make concerning parking in Third Street Car Park and if hon. members do not park cars properly, we will have them clamped and uplifted by appropriate vehicles. Accordingly, there is a Ford vehicle, registration number - ACY 3102, and another - ADA 3075. Can those vehicles please be removed and parked properly? The debate shall continue.

MS. KHUMALO: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and once again congratulations for taking over the hot seat. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the mover and the seconder of this motion.

What happened at Westgate Mall in Kenya is unacceptable to anybody, whether in Africa or the world over. It is sad Mr. Speaker that we are talking of people who come to a country to kill its citizens and refer this atrocity to the colonisers who came to take away our country and lead us the way that they wanted. It is a mockery of us standing up today talking about how our colonizers brutalised us, when we are talking of individuals who want to destabilise other countries for their own benefit and at the end of the day; the people that suffer are the citizens of that country.

Mr. Speaker Sir, there is the mention of the Gukurahundi. There is a difference between physical pain and emotional pain. When it comes to physical pain, you can forget about it the moment the pain goes away. But, when it comes to emotional pain, no one takes away that pain.

With our colonisers, the brutality was of white against the black and for Gukurahundi, it was black against black. It was our own kith and kin that killed defenseless pregnant women whose tummies were slit open, the foetus removed Mr. Speaker Sir, and that foetus was mashed to pulp. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, we cannot compare the issue of Gukurahundi to what happened to the Westgate Mall. Not at all. We are here talking about what happened in Kenya. If there is anything that happened amongst us as kith and kin, it is something else. -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, can you give the hon. member an ear and please dwell on the motion. Thank you.

MS. KHUMALO: On the issue of terrorism, Mr. Speaker Sir, whether we want it or not, that is the game of late. What is important now is, what are we going to do to protect our people? Kenya was -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

MR. SPEAKER: Order, the hon. member is simply saying, that type of terrorism is rampant. Understand her. Thank you.

*MS. KHUMALO: Mr. Speaker Sir, maybe I will be better understood if I speak in Shona. Unfortunately, I am Ndebele, when I speak in Ndebele no one will understand what I am saying.

+ But, anyway, I will go to my mother tongue. The terrorism happening in Africa is like cancer that is eating into our society and it will destroy all of us if we are not serious about what is happening. Talking about what happened in Kenya, we need to ensure that we take swift measures in comforting those that were hurt due to the incident in Kenya. We must understand that, we need to console each other as Africans because noone other than ourselves can console each other because what happens to one person can also happen to the other.

We should encourage leaders of this House to go to the Kenyan Embassy and endorse their signatures in the book of condolences. There is also the question of who did such a horrendous act in Kenya? What is important right now is that, we need to be on the lookout in as far as having the knowledge of who did such a thing so that we give a helping hand to the Kenyans.

It is unclear as to how they get into any particular country with the passports that they obtained under unclear circumstances. We need to advocate for the Organisation of African Unity (OAU) and SADC come up with a communique condemning this act in their strongest terms.

I also want to speak on the examples in what happened in Kenya. I heard a particular hon. member speaking about Chimoio, I will also go back to speak about the Gukurahundi. The perpetrators of Gukurahundi need to know that we need to speak about it not as MDC- T members but as citizens of Zimbabwe who were affected by this atrocity. As we speak, there are people that still do not have Birth Certificates because of Gukurahundi. As we speak, there are people that were not properly buried yet people are worried about those that perished during the liberation war but then they are not worried about those that perished during the Gukurahundi era.

Mr. Speaker, we need to be very fair. The people that died during the Gukurahundi also have to be properly buried. As we speak, our children went to South Africa and people are claiming that they are not educated yet these are some of the survivors of the effects of the Gukurahundi - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. members, may you allow the hon. member to finish her debate.

+MS. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The problem that we have in this House is that when others speak of their liberation war heroes, it is acceptable but when we speak of our own - it becomes an issue.

Mr. Speaker Sir, what happened during the Gukurahundi, will never be acceptable, as we speak we have children that are suffering because of it. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -

+MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. member, I think your point has been made. May you revert to the motion please.

+MS. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will revert to the Kenya incident - what happened in Kenya could happen to us as well one day. I would like to encourage this august House to unite and express profound sorrow on what happened to the Kenyans. We need to work together with the Kenyan Government such that when they investigate as to what happened, it will be good as Zimbabweans to send our team of experts to go and assist the Kenyans in finding out what exactly happened. This will also help us should such an incident happen to us, we will come up with solutions to help the citizens of Zimbabwe.

Mr. Speaker, there is the issue of Al Qaeda. People say there is Central, Eastern and Southern Africa but I say that Africa is one and the time has come for us to be the united state of Africa. If we do work together, they will come and do whatever they want and it will be the citizens of Africa that will suffer.

In conclusion, I would like to say that it is easy to blame another person because when blaming someone, you use one finger to point at them. You need to remember that there are three fingers that will be pointing at you. We need to remember to question ourselves if we are blameless.

*MRS. MASHONGANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am deeply touched by the motion on the Kenyan incident. I am very much saddened by the callous murder of innocent souls and it makes me because when we look at the families who have suffered such a loss, we will find that the Americans are also involved in this issue. When we remember some of the problems we went through in the past, we believe that blood is still flowing in Zimbabwe to date. I say this because there are some black Zimbabweans who were buried in a standing position which is against our culture which says the dead should lie down or that somebody should not be killed whilst standing.

We were told that these people faced a terrible death in that they were stabbed with knives and were put in the refrigerators. This brings our memories back to the past. Personally, I was really crying and wondering as to why as Zimbabweans we do not take note of what happened to our freedom fighters who were innocent souls, who died in the liberation struggle to remove us from the shackles of oppression. We now live in the land of milk and honey, peace with ourselves and souls because of their sacrifice. I believe the British and the Americans still want to continue oppressing us. I support the previous speaker who said that we should be vigilant in Zimbabwe. We do not understand whether this will come to an end and whether it is going to end in Kenya.

We recall that Mbuya Nehanda once said that her bones shall rise. I recall that as a result of the loss of these families in Kenya who are still in mourning, if as blacks we were to speak with one voice and as Zimbabweans, we speak with one voice as we mourn the Kenyans, we are allowed to face or to recall the problems that we have experienced.

Even if you were to go to a funeral, if it is a male who has passed on, I will go there to mourn and recall the loss of my own husband and this is due to a previous experience. I am also allowed whenever my friend's mother has passed on, who might be in this august House if I were to go and commiserate with the bereaved, I would also recall my own mother.

If such an incident were to remind us that in Zimbabwe we still have families that are still grieving over the loss of their relatives whose death they did not experience. Others are still gathering their bones or their remains. I believe that as a result of this motion that has been raised by one of us, as an august House we could even come up with a resolution that Parliament bus could leave this august building with all of us from different political parties going to see the mass graves in Mozambique.

I am of the view that at times if we were to have a common purpose, there is need for us as hon members to be forced into going it together and none of us should be left behind to places like Chimoio, Nyadzonia, Tembwe, Base One and Zambia.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (DR CHIMEDZA) : I would like to acknowledge the mover of the motion and the seconder. I would like to agree with them on the callousness of the act in Kenya and I am sure heartfelt condolences go to all the Kenyans. The zeal with which the colleagues have shown in condemning this is admirable. This is what can happen if you engage in things like the security sector reform - [HON MEMBERS: Hear Hear].

We have heard a lot of hon members from the opposite side being very vocal about us reforming our security sector, the same sector that has managed to stop this callousness. We hope this realisation that things like this can happen to you if you tamper with your security sector. We hope all of us are to be focused and to leave the security sector reform debate alone.

There are different types of terrorism and the worst one of all of them that does not discriminate on whether you are a woman, pregnant, young or old - the worst form of terrorism is sanctions. These sanctions, we hope the same emotions that the hon members displayed here, the same condemnation will be visited on the sanctions. The same revulsion that you have shown, should be shown against economic sanctions that have killed women and are killing sick people in hospitals. The numbers are much more than what has happened in Kenya - are dying every day and are continuing to die every day.

We are glad that the colleagues have realised that terrorism is bad and this particular terrorism of sanctions is even worse. We hope we will be together in condemning this.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (DR CHIMEDZA) : I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 3rd October, 2013.

MR. SPEAKER: I am advised that item Number 3, on the Order Paper, which was moved by Hon. S.S. Nkomo and seconded by Hon. Mpariwa, be deferred because the hon. members are not in the House.

MOTION

DETERIORATION OF THE HEALTH DELIVERY SYSTEM IN ZIMBABWE

Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Health Sector in Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (MR. MUDARIKWA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 3 October, 2013.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (MR. MUDARIKWA), the House adjourned at Nineteen Minutes to Five o'clock p.m.

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National Assembly Hansard Vol. 40 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD - 2 OCTOBER 2013 VOL. 40 NO. 7