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Wednesday, 20th September, 2017

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.


(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)



          THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of a delegation from the Consultative National Assembly of the Islamic Republic of Iran. You are most welcome –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

          HON. MLILO: I rise on a point of privilege with your indulgence. Yesterday during our sitting at around this time, you made an announcement to the effect that the documentation on the Constituency Development Fund was going to be distributed to all our pigeon holes. I see even now today we still have not yet received such documentation. Some have received and some have not - [HON.MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]. I am coming from my pigeon hole and I did not find it. As such it is my prayer that you extend the - [HON. ZWIZWAI: The Speaker is a man of his words. We got everything.] -

          THE HON SPEAKER: Hon. Mlilo, I am not sure when you actually checked in your pigeon hole but if it is not there – [HON. MLILO: There’s nothing.] – when the Chair is speaking please do not respond. I am explaining to you that the Clerk of Parliament will make sure that you have got a copy. Thank you.

          HON. GONESE: On a point of order.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: On what?

          HON. GONESE: On an important matter relating to leave of absence of Hon. Ministers. As a matter of procedure Mr. Speaker you normally announce the names of those Hon. Ministers who have sought the indulgence of the Chair to be excused from attending this session. Today you had called for Questions Without Notice before the intervention by the Hon. Mlilo and I just wish to bring it to your attention that we were still waiting to be appraised of the names of those Ministers. We know that there are Ministers who are not here and we do not believe that all of them are with His Excellency in New York. We just want to be informed of those who have accompanied the President and those who have otherwise sought leave of absence and thereafter we can then proceed accordingly.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: The list is being compiled and I agree with you.


          *HON. MAPIKI: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. What is Government’s policy regarding agents who are charging 35% on Ecocash withdrawals? Secondly, what is Government going to do with regards to people who are selling cash at 35% through bank transfers?

          *THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question. My request is that may he please write this question down so that I can have enough time to make a thorough research and give a comprehensive report. The reason why I am asking him to put that in writing is because he talked about accessing cash through Ecocash and therefore I need to be given detailed information so that I can give the nation Government’s position regarding that.

          Now regarding the illegal disbursement of cash by cash barons, I can tell this august House that there are some individuals who have been apprehended by the Reserve Bank for the illegal disbursements of cash.

          *HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question is that, is there a policy right now which outlaws this practice because we need to put strict laws which will lead to the conviction and incarceration of offenders involved in  money laundering.  As yet, we do not have a mandatory prison term for these people involved in money laundering.  What we only have are banking rules which punish such offenders. 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  The Rules and Orders are very clear.  You allow the Hon. Minister to respond and if you have supplementary questions, you rise and shall be recognised.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - Can we have order.  Hon. Minister, can you complete your response.

          *HON. CHINAMASA:  I was saying that we do not yet have promulgation that whosoever is convicted of money laundering should be convicted but as of now, we are drafting an amendment Bill so that whoever is convicted of money laundering should have a mandatory prison term.  However, suffice to say, we are looking at the Banking Act which allows the Reserve Bank to impose penalties on offenders.  So far, we have had some organisations which have been convicted and penalised using this banking law.  

          *HON. ZIYAMBI:  I am grateful for the response by the Minister but what I would like to assure the Minister is that, whatever rule you may put in place or even mandatory incarceration which you have already done in the past, has been of no use as people continue to carry out money laundering.  I am making a preamble so that when I then ask my question I will be understood.  When we talk about money laundering, it has been done through many ways even in the banks.  When you want to go abroad, they say come and deposit some cash with us so that we can allocate you some foreign currency.  So, I am appealing to the Minister to work on this ruling.  We were told that the bond notes were equivalent to the US$ but when we want to go abroad we are told to bring cash yet we have money in the bank.  Why should I deposit some more cash when I already have money in the bank?  So my question is based on the question asked by Hon Mapiki.  Not only are the people selling money in the streets but the bankers are also falling into that category.  Banks are into money laundering yet the Minister is saying that banks are not selling money but when you want to travel abroad you are asked to deposit cash into your account so that you get foreign currency.  In other words, they are encouraging us to go onto the street to get money to deposit into our accounts. 

          *HON. CHINAMASA:  Let me elaborate on what is being said by Hon. Ziyambi.  I did not deny that there is money laundering but I have never been part and parcel of this money laundering business. 

          HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  My point of order arises from the answers that are coming from the Minister.  He seems to indicate that he does not know what is taking place in the sector in which he is in charge.  I just wanted to find out if the Hon Minister is still responsible for finance and whether he is still staying in this country to the extent that he does not know what is happening in the sector in which he is in charge?

          HON. CHINAMASA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, please let me clarify the position.  We receive reports and so, I cannot be a witness to an illegal sale, but we receive the reports through the Central Bank.  People are reporting a lot of banks as well as individuals who are flouting the law.  They report to the department which supervises the commercial banks and there are some commercial banks which have been penalised for that sort of thing.  There are some bank managers who have also been caught violating the law but I cannot stand here and say that I am a witness to an illegal sale of foreign currency because I am not.  Therefore, the point I want to make is that anybody who has knowledge of any transactions which are illegal are entitled to report to the Central Bank which has authority to pursue and investigate the matters.

          *HON. CHIBAYA:  If we move around our banks in the country, we see lots of queues of people wanting to withdraw money yet if you go to Road Port, you will see people indulging in money laundering.  These people have trunks full of money and yet we have never seen them being arrested or being questioned.  How did they manage to accumulate such funds when banks have nothing to give to depositors?

          HON. CHINAMASA:  These matters come under the authority of the Central Bank and I will refer the matters to them for action.  – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

          THE HON SPEAKER:  Order, order. Hon. Members, it is very clear that this is a burning issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] -  May I suggest that Hon. Mapiki brings in a motion which will allow everybody to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I have not finished.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order. Hon. Chibaya, please cool down. Hon. Minister, please proceed and make your suggestion.

HON. CHINAMASA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I was going to suggest that I do a Ministerial Statement instead. – [HON. MEMBERS: Tomorrow!] – I am not available tomorrow but next week – [HON. MEMBERS: Where are you going?] –

          HON. MUNENGAMI:  Thank you Hon. Speaker. In the Hon. Minister’s Ministerial Statement, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – In his Ministerial Statement, may the Hon. Minister also include some of the things that we feel should be addressed.

          For example, firstly the Hon. Minister said that no one would be forced on the use of the bond notes – that was the first issue.  Then the second issue, the bond notes will be trading one is to one with the United States Dollar (1:1).  The third issue relates to the $200 million Afrexim Bank; now we hear that they have borrowed I think $300 million.  The last issue is, the Hon. Minister promised to appoint an independent body that was going to supervise the issuance of the bond notes but that has not been done up to now.  So, if he can include all those things.

          Lastly, the Reserve Bank Governor promised to resign if the issue of the bond notes failed and it has failed.  If the Hon. Minister could include some of those issues in his Ministerial Statement then at least we will be answered.  I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – - [HON. MARIDADI:  And also tell us where Russell Goreraza got the $2million to buy his two cars from!] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Maridadi – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, I will not allow disorder here.  Hon. Maridadi, you have to be recognised.  You are a very seasoned Member of Parliament, yes and you have to be recognised. – [HON. MARIDADI:  I am sorry Mr. Speaker.] – Alright. – [AN HON. MEMBER:  Are you going to give him a chance to speak Mr. Speaker?] – No, his point has been made.

          HON. DR. KHUPE:  My question is directed to the Leader of the House who is also the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Mnangagwa.

          Voter registration has just begun and in the absence of the 3 200 registration kits which were initially supposed to be procured,  only 400 kits have been distributed to 63 polling stations resulting in the process being very slow.  When are the 3 200 kits going to be procured?  Why is it that Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) has not yet disclosed the other 10 000 voter registration centres apart from the 63 as per the agreement?  I thank you.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA):  Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank the question asked by the Hon. Member which would afford every single Hon. Member in the House to know what is happening as well as the country at large would know the facts.

          I personally do not have and would have to ask the Chairperson of ZEC, to provide the statistics which you seek to know because it is not a question of policy but a question of administrative fact which requires me to present facts as they stand.  I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order. The Hon. Vice President said he will make a detailed statement with all the facts once he has conferred with ZEC.  So the supplementary question does not arise. Hon. Zindi!

          HON. GONESE:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker. It is more on a policy issue so that he includes those issues in his statement.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  I am recognising her - please, yes!

          HON. DR. KHUPE:  Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think voter registration is very important and I appreciate the response by the Hon. Vice President.

          I want to add so that when he brings in his response, at least he is going to include some of these issues.  Voter registration Mr. Speaker, is very slow and if you look at Remembrance Drive Polling Station in Mbare, the ZEC officials announced that they will only register 72 people today. Again, when the Chinese company was demonstrating their equipment, it took them four minutes to register one person but look at what happened.  It took the President about 25 minutes to be registered; it took our own Secretary-General Mwonzora about 22 minutes to be registered and it took Hon. S.K. Moyo 18 minutes to be registered. Many other people have been registering and it has been taking them more than 20 minutes.  So, I think it is important that when the Hon. Vice President comes to the House, he has responses on why this process is very slow.  I thank you.

          HON. ZINDI:  My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.  I need to find out from the Hon. Minister, the justification of charges of $30.00 on each Point of Sale (POS) in all businesses that are using the swipe system in terms of payments. What is the justification for that $30.00 per month being charged by banks to all retailers who are using those POS machines, if it is not exploitation? I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order, may I seek your indulgence Hon. Zindi, that the question you raised be included in the written response by the Hon. Minister?

          HON. ZINDI:  With all due respect Hon. Speaker, I am of the opinion that it is a completely different question all together because this is related to charges.  The previous question by Hon. Mapiki is something that was related with black market and trading of currency.  In other words, the formal banking system has been taken out of the banks onto the streets, which is different from the issue that I am raising.  I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  So you request that you be answered?  Hon. Minister.

          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  I thank the Hon. Member for her question; but to say that it requires a specific investigation,  I am not aware of what the Hon. Member is mentioning – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not a banker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – the relationship – I will need to find out Mr. Speaker Sir, the relationship between the banker and the customer.  What is the customer being charged for in respect of the US$30 every month?

Hon. Zindi having approached the Chair.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order.  I will allow Hon. Zindi to show you what she is talking about.

Hon. Zindi explained some issues to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, (Hon. Chinamasa)

HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very clear that this is a matter that requires investigation.  She says that a particular bank, which I will not mention has been charging US$30 for the point of sale machines.  That is a relationship between the bank and the customer and I will need to find out what exactly the charge is about. I can speculate and I do not want to speculate.  For instance, I do not know the cost of the point of sale machines, I do not know the contractual relationship when the bank supplies the point of sale machines, whether they are recovering the cost of the point of sale machine, we do not know.  So, I will need to investigate and I ask the Hon. Member to put the question in writing.

HON. ZINDI: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  With your indulgence, I am of the opinion that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, with the support of the Reserve Bank, guide commercial banks in terms of how much charges they should transact with their clients.  Therefore, when we are raising these policy issues, it is intended to actually give direction to these commercial banks in terms of the charges they should actually be charging their clients which does not border on exploitation.  For example, if it is renting, if you have 10 machines, 10 times 30 every month, over and above the other charges one has to pay.  What business can you do in that kind of environment?

THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary question?

HON. ZINDI: I am saying, in terms of the response by the Minister, we need a directive as he previously did, to cut down on charges which are being levied to clients.  This was done when we raised these issues.   The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, when we raised these issues, it came in and the Ministry also came in, in terms of supporting the clients or the clientele base being levied very high charges by banks.  Banks in this environment are reporting super profits.  Where are they getting the money from?

THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary question?

HON. ZINDI: My question Hon. Speaker, I repeat.  We want intervention in terms of policy direction to cut on the charges. Period.

HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have promised to look into this matter.  The bank and its charges have been mentioned.  I will inquire in respect of what service; US$30 is being deducted every month.  I cannot give the answer now.  I do not know whether it is a repayment of a loan, I do not know – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

 THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.  May I revert to the point of Privilege raised by Hon. Gonese.  The list that I have now is Hon. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Damasane, Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development; Hon. Matangaidze, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services; Hon. Mumbengegwi, Minister of Foreign Affairs; Hon. Bimha, Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. Undenge, Minister of Energy and Power Development and Hon. Mombeshora, Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement.

HON. GONESE: Just a follow up on your response.  Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir, for giving us that information.  My follow up as a point of clarification relates to what we are going to do as an institution in respect of those ministers who have not been mentioned on the list that you have read to us and are not here in this august House.  As you recall, last week, His Excellence alluded to the fact that ministers have got to take their responsibilities seriously and that they have to attend Parliament.  My question is, the time has come for us to do something in relation to those ministers who are not in attendance and who have not sought the leave of your office.

THE HON. SPEAKER: I will ask the Clerk of Parliament to draw up the list and from there, the list will be brought into the House and the House will determine the way forward in terms of our Standing Orders.

HON. ADV. CHAMISA: On a point of order.

THE HON. SPEAKER: But on what basis?

HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you very much.  Just on that aspect Hon. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER: But I have made a ruling already.

HON. ADV. CHAMISA: It is not the ruling that I am challenging, that is why I said point of order Hon. Speaker.  It has to do with the ministers you have said are not in this House.  It is just a point I wanted to know.  Is it that they have accompanied the President – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member please, we shall get the list and the due process shall follow.  If it means establishing  -  [Hon. Chamisa having remained standing]please sit down, can you kindly sit down [ HON. ADV. CHAMISA: I will sit down Hon. Speaker.] – I have not finished talking.  The due process Hon. Chamisa is that, we establish an appropriate committee on Standing Rules and Orders and then they will be summoned accordingly.  Thank you.

HON. MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy regarding assistance given to cattle farmers whose cattle have been affected by foot and mouth disease, bearing in mind that some are resorting to traditional methods of treatment?

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Before you answer Hon. Minister, I have also received an apology from Hon. Vice President Mphoko.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE (LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Diseases like anthrax, foot and mouth and rabies are diseases that are financed by the State in terms of taking care of them. What has happened with foot and mouth is - we have discovered that we will not be able to deal with foot and mouth through vaccinations alone; hence our desire to put in some policies to restrict movement of cattle, particularly in districts affected by foot and mouth. Foot and mouth has been caused mainly by illegal movement of cattle. We have always had movement permits that anybody who want to move cattle, before he does that, he must seek permission from the Veterinary Department to check whether in actual fact it is allowed to move cattle from one district to another district. So, it has not been happening.

          The problem that we have faced now is the fact that we have buffaloes roaming around all over the country than ever before because of the resettled people who are near the conservancies and because of that, we now have a problem. What has happened is that we have now been assisted with more than nearly half a million doses of vaccines and we think that will go a long way in mitigating the spread of it, not the outbreak. Measures that we have put in place is we think that we would be able to deal with foot and mouth by way of restricting the movement of cattle from one district to another district, and that is what we have done.

          There is no Government assistance that is given to a farmer whose cattle have been affected by foot and mouth. Nine out of ten, it does not mean that when cattle have been affected by foot and mouth, they die. They do not die in most cases. Therefore, if you leave the cattle for the time being and you do not move them, the disease might subside for a while but the clinical signs of the disease will remain in the said cattle. That is what we have done. Thank you very much.

          *HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is that the foot and mouth disease has affected areas like Chipinge. She has talked about the buffaloes and I am saying the vaccination which is being done is not the solution to this problem because buffaloes are moving out of their secluded places because there are no fences. What is Government policy, especially looking at the Ministry which is responsible for wildlife? Have you put your heads together so that we take some measures to erect the fencing which was removed when we were working on our land redistribution? We need to erect fences and protect these buffaloes from moving out of the conservatives.

          *HON. ZHANDA: I thank the Hon. Member for that question because I am working hand in hand with the Minister of Environment, Hon. Muchinguri.   We held meetings with farmers in Chiredzi and we were advocating for the re-erection of fences and cutting off these conservatives. The other problem we face is that when we are in this area, this time of the season where we do not have enough pastures, we observed that the farmers cut up the fences so that animals can access grazing land in these conservatives and this is a very big national problem. The rule says an area which is a conservancy which has buffaloes should have double fences so that they do not break through.

          If the farmers fail to put this double fencing, Government policy says these animals should be moved to some areas where they cannot be a menace. At times if need be, these buffaloes can also be put to rest but the first solution is for these areas to be fenced so that the buffalos do not mix in the same grazing land with the cattle. We realised that when we have a double fence, these two animals do not meet in the grazing land. We are saying in the Command Livestock agriculture programme, we are going to put aside some cash so that we erect fences in areas which will separate what we call red zones and clean zones.

          Let me inform this august House that we will never be able to eradicate foot and mouth. We can only control it but never terminate it forever because as long as we have the carrier, the buffaloes - this disease will always be with us. We are working planned vaccinations in some selected areas but this should depend on whether we have enough cash for the vaccinations. When we are vaccinating cattle against foot and mouth, we have two vaccines, one which is vaccinated at the beginning of the month and towards the end of the month, these cattle receive another booster vaccination.

People should know that maybe this is just theory and practically it is not. We have noticed that some farmers are reluctant to bring their cattle for the second vaccine, as a result, there is going to be the spread of this disease. This is because if they do not come for the second vaccination, it means they are the carriers of this foot and mouth disease. The foot and mouth disease is disturbing the marketing process of our beef - even to international markets, hence we have to be careful.  

*HON. MANGAMI: My supplementary question regarding this vaccination on foot and mouth is can any farmer easily access this medication? When a beast has died of foot and mouth, is the meat safe for human consumption?

*HON. ZHANDA: Thank you Hon. Mangami for the question. The foot and mouth vaccine is imported and we can only get it from Botswana at the Botswana Vaccine Institute. This is a project which was embarked on by the SADC countries. When we talk of foot and mouth disease, it is found in different strains or types, hence this vaccine is not one size fits all. It is only targeted at a particular area, hence if a farmer wants to purchase this vaccine, we can allow that person to go and purchase it in Botswana but they do not vaccinate as individuals, but we send experts from our Ministry to carry out the vaccination.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  We continue to receive apologies from Ministers – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -  So, I think we will continue to receive them even after the Question Time.  Those names will be included on the list.  Here, we have Hon. Mandiwanzira; we have received his apology.

          * HON. ZHANDA:  I will now respond to the question on whether a beast which has died of foot and mouth can be consumed by human beings.  Any animal which dies on natural causes or foot and mouth, people are not allowed to consume that meat.  It should be thrown away or burnt out.

          HON. MHONA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.  What is the Government policy in place relating to the alignment of the Presidential Speech delivered traditionally in English across the country on the Independence, Heroes and Defence Forces Days to our vernacular languages as enunciated in our supreme Constitution, Section 6(1).  Thank you.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHINGOSHO):  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his pertinent question.  However, I would want to point out that the question is not strictly directed or has to do with the Ministry of Local Government as such.  Thank you very much – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order!  Order Hon. Members! I am calling for order.  Can we have order in the House?  Hon. Minister, since the Ministry of Local Government is the one which organizes all those functions, I think you have got to see how you can solve that problem and not to just leave an Hon. Member with a question which is not answered. 

          HON. MUZONDIWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Leader of the House.  May I know what the Government policy is regarding the issue of those people who are known as ‘tsikamutanda’ who are witch hunters going around rural areas accusing people of witchcraft.  They charge them some cattle and take those cattle from villagers who are in the rural areas.  Thank you.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MNANGAGWA):  Madam Speaker, it is unlawful for those persons called ‘tsikamutanda’ to do what they do.  It is unlawful to go around doing witchcraft hunting or something.  It is not lawful.  The Ministry of Home Affairs which is responsible for law and order should arrest such people.  We do not allow such unlawful activities to prevail.  These matters have been reported at Executive level and directive has been given to the Ministry of Home Affairs to suppress and arrest those who practice what the ‘tsikamutandas’ do.  I thank you.

          HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, Hon. Chinamasa.  We see the prices of commodities going up at a very high rate.  If we look at sugar, rice, flour and green soap, the price for rice has increased from $1.80 to $2.63, flour from $1.71 to $2.10, brown sugar from $1.85 to $1.95.  What policy has Government put in place to control inflation since we see this happening nowadays?  Thank you. 

          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Thank you very much.  I thank the Hon. Member for his question.  I think the question will be dealt with more comprehensively under my Ministerial Statement because it covers very much the issues of inflation.  However, I must say that as at end of August this year, inflation is at 0.14% and we anticipate that maybe by the end of the year, it will be around 2 to 3%, which still remains the lowest inflation within the SADC region – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – I prefer that I address these issues more comprehensively in the Ministerial Statement that I will give.  Thank you.

*HON. SARUWAKA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Hon. Acting President, Hon. Mnangagwa.  I want to understand Government policy in terms of the banning of second hand clothes which we have heard that MPs are now getting.  So, we want to know whether the law is still in place on the banning of second hand clothes in line with protecting our industries.  Thank you.

*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA):  Thank you Madam President.  If I heard the question clearly, he is saying that there are clothes that are being given to MPs.  I have not been given those clothes.  He also asked about the banning of second hand clothes.  I do not know whether that law is in place.  I think I should go and find out whether we have a law that second hand clothes are not to be worn by other people because he wants to know what is Government policy. I do not know what the law says concerning that, that if clothes have been worn by someone, they should not be worn by another one. I do not know whether I heard your question properly.

*HON. SARUWAKA:  Let me clarify the question.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order.  If you have a supplementary or something to say, you make sure that the Chair knows, not to just stand up and start talking.

*HON. SARUWAKA:  Acting President, Hon. Gumbo do not disturb the Acting President.  My question is, there is a law which was brought in here by Hon. Chinamasa in terms of banning second hand clothes, in line with protecting the local clothing industry so that children here get jobs, but now the First Lady is giving people second hand clothes at State House.  Is it not contradicting the law of banning of second hand clothes?

*HON. E. D. MNANGAGWA:  I think now it is clear. I thought you were just asking whether we have that law in place.  I was not given anything so I did not know.  I can ask from other Hon. Ministers here, Hon. Chinamasa, Hon. Mabuwa to assist me in explaining the issues.  All the people that you mentioned are here, so I think the law, as I have articulated, still stands.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  So maybe you can redirect your question.

*HON. SARUWAKA:  If you allow me I would like to redirect my question to Hon. Chinamasa on the position of Government, with the assistance of Hon. Mabuwa.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam Speaker.  The position is that we do not prohibit the importation of second hand clothes, but we charge very heavy duty to discourage people from importing second hand clothes.  This is intended to protect local clothing industries.  That is the position, but there are people who smuggle and if they are caught by ZIMRA or by law enforcement agencies, that cargo will be confiscated.  That is the position I know.  The other aspect, I am not privy to the issues.

*HON. S. CHIDHAKWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank Hon. Chinamasa for his response.  He says that things that people smuggle are confiscated by the Government because last time, we heard that these things are the ones that are taken by the First Lady and given to people.  We do not know where these things are taken to because we have never heard of any auction taking place.  When it is cars, we hear that there are auctions taking place.  So, we want to know when these clothes are confiscated at the borders, where are they taken to. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  That is a new question – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -  Order!  Listen Hon. Members, that is the duty of the Chair.  The question which has been asked by Hon. Chidhakwa is not from the original question because the question asked was, is it now allowed.  It is now different.  We do not want to be diverted.

HON. MLISWA:  My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.  There is a shortage of foreign currency and any foreign currency which is to leave the country has got to be prioritised.  I would like to know whether the money that was used by the First Lady to buy a house in South Africa and equally the money used by Russel Goreraza to buy cars outside the country was priority and did it also have foreign exchange approval?

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Madam Speaker, I cannot comment on allegations which I am not aware of.  These are transactions outside Government.  Yes, they are transactions, if they happened at all and I cannot comment.  You need to ask those you allege have done so.

HON. MLISWA:  I think we need to be consistent.  We cannot have Ministers ducking and diving.  This is very clear.  Most of the questions asked in this House come through various forms.  The first family has not denied that they bought a house.  There has been no official statement from the first family saying that.  It is very clear that unless, Minister, you are able to tell us that you will look into it and you will come back to us and answer the question– [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]- is it an offshore account or is it not an offshore account.  The house was confiscated by the African Forum People.  The evidence is there.  Minister, I can furnish you if you want, with more information that it is not more than one house which has been bought by the first family.  They have equally a house in South Africa.  Is the money offshore or is the money coming from here because we have a foreign currency crisis in the country – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – He must respond. The Minister cannot duck and dive to protect corruption.  This House must uphold the Constitution and must hold everybody accountable; the First Lady has been extravagant.  The US$1.4 million which was used to buy a ring, it was also out of foreign currency in this country. We have been too quiet. He must answer …– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order! There is a point of order.

          *HON. MAHOKA: On a point of order. The Hon. Member is naming somebody who is not a Member of this House.  Someone who is not a Member of this House should not be named because they cannot come to answer to those allegations and should not be included in our debates. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Hon. Minister responded. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –  Hon. Mliswa, please let us give each other a chance to explain. 

          HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I am prepared to give evidence to the Minister regarding the fact that the First Lady bought a house; that Goreraza bought the cars.  If I furnish him with the evidence, will he answer?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is fine, if you will give him.  – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, we have agreed with Hon. Mliswa that he will bring in all the evidence, then the Minister will be able to respond.

          *HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  Minister, we are now approaching the rain season and we have not seen any physical development in the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway which was launched by the President some time back.  When is the road going to be constructed?

          *THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank Hon. Mashayamombe for… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members! Hon. Mliswa please! What is this now?

HON. DR. GUMBO: I would like to thank Hon. Mashayamombe for that question concerning work on the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway, which was officially launched by the President on 18th May, 2017.  When roads are being constructed, it does not mean that when we launch the work, the following morning you will find work in progress. 

There is a lot of ground work that needs to be done.  I once gave a Ministerial Statement that on 4th July, people will be working on the road. Engineers were on the ground doing the work on that date until now. I think Hon. Members have read in the newspapers that we need surveyors for the job, that is looking at our target of 40%. The company we engaged is Geiger.  They got about 82 names of surveyors from Zimbabwe and they only chose six.  They have finished working from Skyline to Beatrice, which is the first phase and is in Hon. Mashayamombe’s Constituency Beatrice to Chivhu is the second phase.  Third phase is from Chivhu to Mvuma. Mvuma to Masvingo is another phase, Masvingo to Rutenga is another and then Rutenga to Beitbridge.

As I am speaking, the engineers are on the ground doing the work.  Surveyors will start work and then designers will follow.  They do all the preliminaries before the actual work starts.  Yes, we are approaching the rain season but we are supposed to do what is supposed to be done so that our work will be done properly.

In the coming weeks, you will see other people coming in, starting from Beitbridge coming here.  When they start, you will find that there will be a lot of progress.  Thank you.

*HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My supplementary question to the Minister is, will he explain clearly why we have a launch first before we have a survey.  I come from Chitungwiza; some 20 years ago there was a launch of a railway line project from Chitungwiza to Harare which never came to pass.  Which is the correct procedure? What starts -, is it the feasibility or the launch or the launch then the feasibility study?

*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Hon. Sithole for that question.  The policy is that we should start with the launch because we are now starting that programme.  After launching, we will then go through other processes until we go to the actual work.  Some of these processes are difficult to explain in vernacular.

*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thank the Hon. Minister for explaining the policy position on all the questions.  My question is - Minister, we have observed that we have had a launch of some projects and after some time we forget about them.  For example, Tokwe-Mkhorsi was launched long back. We had almost forgotten about it was then completed on time.

On the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway, what time factor would you give for Parliament to expect results so that when the project is carried we will be assured that a feasibility study has been done?  What should we tell the road users that the road will be completed by this time so that whenever problems are faced in completing the project, we are able to say the Government has failed and we need a new Government which may face that challenge head on?

*HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker for the supplementary question raised by Hon. Chamisa.  We have had times whereby a project has been launched and may take time to complete. Looking at the road in question, it was launched in February, 2017. We need to know that. We have to take time so that we complete that road. The agreement which was signed regarding this road is that it should be completed in three years.  What this means is that the length of the road is divided amongst the tender winners so that each winner will work on a section of the road and when it is past three years, that road should be complete.  I thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.



1.    HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House when the 4 500 jobs will be available to the Youths of Gokwe Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering five hundred youths per ward through youth officers.

          HON.WADYAJENA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker. May you compel the Minister to come to Parliament please?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Just like what we do to other Ministers.

          HON. WADYAJENA:  He does not even come over here.  We do not even know him.  I have got questions for the past three months.  The constituency is waiting Madam Speaker ….

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, would you please take your seat?

HON. WADYAJENA:  But I am just saying the constituency is waiting….

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Take your seat!  Take your seat!

HON. WADYAJENA:  Thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Members who are walking out, may you please do that quietly.



        THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA) presented the Public Entities Corporate Governance Bill [H.B.5, 2017]

Bill read the first time.

Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.



          HON. GONESE: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on the Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

          HON. MUNENGAMI:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.



   THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Madam Speaker, I move the motion in my name that the Land Commission Bill (H.B. 2B, 2016) which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).

          HON. MAONDERA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I have no problem in reinstating these motions, particularly to do with Bills. But some of these motions or Bills have been reinstated from previous sessions.  My plea to Ministers is that once they have introduced their Bills, can we please be conclusive so that we do not continue to reinstate and reinstate. 

Out of four hundred and something pieces of legislation to be aligned with the Constitution, there has been slow speed.  So, if they can conclude these Bills so that by the end of this Session of the Eighth Parliament, everything will be in order.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):  Point taken but that is not the case with this Bill.

Motion put and agreed to.




          THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): I move the motion standing in my name that the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Bill (H.B.2, 2017) which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).

Motion put and agreed to.

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO) [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members if you want to chat, there is a lobby room outside, not in this Chamber.

          Motion put and agreed to.



          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHINGOSHO):   Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the Shop Licences Amendment Bill H.B. 10, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).

          Motion put and agreed to.



          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):   Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the ZEP-RE (Membership of Zimbabwe Branch Office) [H.B. 9A, 2016] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament, be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).

          Motion put and agreed to.



          THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA):   Mr. Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name, that the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill [H.B, 19, 2015] which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which the Bill had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 161(1).

          Motion put and agreed to.



          Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

          Question again proposed.

          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVEOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th September, 2017.

          On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the House adjourned at Thee Minutes past Four o’ clock p.m.


National Assembly Hansard NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 20 SEPTEMBER 2017 VOL 44 NO 03