You are here:Home>National Assembly Hansard>Vol. 38>NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD - 5 JUNE 2012 VOL. 38 NO. 36

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD - 5 JUNE 2012 VOL. 38 NO. 36

Tuesday, 5th June, 2012.

The House of Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O'clock p.m.

 

PRAYERS

(MR. SPEAKER in the Chair)

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

THE MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Mr. Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1, 2 and 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS

Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

Question again proposed.

*MRS. MATAMISA : Thank you Mr. Speaker, I would like to deliberate on the issue which has been brought before this House by His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe, Mr. Mugabe. I would like to give thanks to His Excellency particularly on his concern that we should all be non violent. He articulated on the issue that, as leaders we should play a pivotal role in displaying good behavioural tenets to those we lead in terms of abhorring violence. I stand here with a heavy heart as we mourn the recent death of our hero, Mr. Cephas who passed away in Mudzi after a cold blooded murder.

It is very painful Mr. Speaker, that an old man met his death through being stoned by people who feel that he was supporting a different political party from their preference. It is even more painful to note that such events implicate hon. members who are in this House. We are leaders of the people, who should lead by example. I was away and when I came back, I read in the press that an hon. member, Hon. Acquelina Katsande had witnessed this sad incident about how the deceased met his death. If this were true, because she is attributed to have said that the MDC was overpowered by ZANU PF and that is how the now deceased died. This means that if we witness such incidences as leaders of the people and fail to stop such incidences, it means that as leaders we will have failed in our duty to lead our people.

I am quite disturbed because I have just seen Hon. Kachepa walk in, he is one of the persons who is said to have been at the meeting. I will not implicate him save to say that he is one of the leaders who was at this meeting. Even if an incident is attributed to have been caused by the youth, I say, it is the leader who will have incited them. The youth only fulfill what their leader will have asked them to do. I would want to say that, in Kadoma there is a constituency called Muzvezve, it was part of my constituency Rio Tinto. We were at a funeral wake for a young man last month, he died in Muzvezve river, whilst fishing. He was attacked by a crocodile and we never recovered his remains. In our culture, our elders say 'he who plays by the river, dies by the crocodile.' I would like to remind our colleagues who are being implicated in the violent murder of innocent people that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. I would like to warn people of this type of behavior that one day, the youth that they are teaching or urging to kill, will one day turn against them and they will meet the same fate. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is surprising that when we discuss such serious issues about violence, other hon. members trivialise this matter. President Mugabe said that there should be tolerance to divergent political views. As a result, JOMIC was set up so that it could resolve differences among people with divergent political views. A ministry of National Healing was created with a view to resolve differences amicably. It was created so that the people of Zimbabwe will act in common purpose, and that peace prevails. Members on the other side of this House are on record as clamouring for elections daily. How can you call for elections when you have started killing us? Are you saying that we are now in an election mode? That is why some of you are trivialising the importance of the constitution and that we should hold a plebiscite with the current constitution. I would like to inform this august House that if it is the issue of elections, MDC has long since been ready for this, to the extent that if you were to call for them at midnight, we will be ready to participate. We are ready for an election any time of the day. What we are against is a blood bath of an election where our members are abducted, murdered and are not free to express their views. I say no to such a bloodbath election. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is only God who knows when one should die. Mr. Speaker, it is abhorrent for one to be followed to a meeting and be killed. We should show each other the way that we should follow henceforth. What is bad is bad, we should be open and condemn it. This will act as a deterrent. I say if an hon. member has been implicated in such a case, that hon. member is no longer fit to be a member of this august House. I implore the police, as a professional police force, to meticulously carry out their duties because failure to do that will be tantamount to asking the MDC to go and arrest the culprits. For, indeed, we will go and bring them to book because that is the way it is. We do not assault people, we will simply go out there, arrest them and bring them before a competent court of law, because we cannot take the law into our own hands. As the MDC, we say that whoever is responsible for violence in our party should be severely punished together with their backers or sponsors. I certainly believe that those youth that were arrested if properly investigated, will reveal their backers. The truth on the matter is that hon. members were present, the same hon. members should be arrested and answer their case. I am perturbed by the fact that a woman hon. member is being implicated in this case. If it were a man, society would have understood it since women are associated more with witchcraft than violence while men are associated with murder. If a woman is implicated in murder, it means that she is now dangerous and society will be taken aback by such conduct from a woman. We urge the law to take its own course. Currently we are writing a constitution, they are clamouring for the retention of the death sentence, the death penalty should be applied indiscriminately, even to hon. members once they have been convicted of murder.

Lastly, I pay my respects to the deceased who untimely met his death due to a brutal murder. He was an old man who wanted to emancipate himself and became a member of the MDC which is led by Hon. Tsvangirai, whose life was cut short by murderers. -[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection]- Do not talk to me, you are a murderer as well. Mr. Speaker sir, I would like to thank you for affording me this opportunity to deplore violence because if I do not condemn violence, this country will be inhabitable with people taking the law into their own hands as they commit rape, murder, kidnap and abduct. This should come to an end. JOMIC is not for MDC but for the GPA. It was agreed and we came up with the GPA, to then terrorise one another should end. I thank you.

*MR KAY: I am sorry that I stood to speak in this House late. I want to thank the people of Marondera for electing me to represent them in this House. I want to pass my condolence message to the Bakaimani and Betera families who lost a father and a child from their families. These people where taken in 2008 during broad day light by people who are known. Until today, these people have not been found.

What is surprising is that the people who took them are known and their names are known, but none was arrested or even questioned. Some say those are the issues of ruling but others say that is the way politics is played. I refuse such arguments. The country that I know called Zimbabwe does not like such kind of things, and politics is not bad, but the people themselves. The truth is that if we do not come out clear to each other, the problems in this country will persist.

This House in my view has all the knowledge. We have got farmers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, businessmen, teachers, and the contributions made can be very helpful. What is giving me a headache is what is causing us to fail and not to have a good living. What is causing us to fail to develop this country. That is what also caused me to rise and debate late because everyone who should rise in this House should rise and leave a mark that will help the other. I do not understand what is causing us to fail. I stood to contribute late because of the way we live in this country. I do not understand what is causing our underdevelopment and I was trying to find out. That is the reason that caused me to stand up to contribute late. Every person that rises in this House must leave something that is helpful to the people.

Because of my failure to answer the question about what is it that is making us fail to develop and to solve our societal problems, I decided to rise to contribute late. Mr. Speaker, what strengthens this House and that helps in assemblies is the divergence of views and accepting how others view things. There are others, whatever the case, who do not want to learn. What I can say, and I feel can help, is that I believe that with the little anomaly I have made, and because of me, the country is now where it is. Believing that fault, I give myself power to deal with my problem.

In this House, what happens most is giving each other faults. There are some who say country A or country B caused our problems here, while some are saying Western countries caused these problems. Some say the Eastern countries have caused these problems. Some are saying colonialism caused our problems whilst others are saying Neo-colonialism is the cause. Some say the leaders of this country are the ones who are now lost. Other people say the masses of this nation are the ones who are lost and they do not understand. In all that, we will never go anywhere if we are giving each other faults.

My plea Mr. Speaker is that if I have a case that is known in this country, it has to be exposed and that is when in this House, we will start to solve our problems, forgiving each other and planning what can help the nation. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

MR. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order in the House.

MR. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the President of this nation, Mr. Robert Mugabe for the Speech he made. He said we have to unite, work as one House, and work as one nation, as one family so that as sons and daughters of this land we can prosper. On the speech that was given by the President and what Hon. Zhuwao said when he raised this motion, he said we should respect and thank the words of the leader. That we can achieve through changing our behaviors and through maintaining peace in the country.

However, Hon. Speaker, I did not know that among us as we live in this nation, we have nharadada, nhunzvatunzva, nhundiramatsime, nyanya who do not want us to have good living. They want to live through eating people's blood. Those who want to maintain their political positions through killing other people, who want our country to be going down as they live through eating other people's blood. I did not know that nhundiramatsime idzinharadada idzi tinadzo in this House of Assembly. From the way I know, I hear Hon. Mujuru our Vice President saying, we want to encourage women so that we can have 50/50 participation in the House of Assembly in this country. The Deputy Prime-Minister, Ms. Thokozani Khupe also tells us the same words that we are supposed to have 50/50 gender composition in Parliament.

We know that mothers are the people we respect. We say if you give birth to a woman, give birth to the nation. They are the people we respect. I was surprised to hear words from some of the women. If these are lies, I want Hon. Katsande to confirm that. She has to refute the words she said. She said what happened to the person who died in Mutoko is that she fell from a vehicle. Those kinds of words pain me. Standing here as I am, I am a victim of violence. I know the danger of violence and how it disturbs our societies. Violence is bad and that is why the President said that. Even the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister always speak about that, saying if we want to develop our nation, we have to do it peacefully. Now if you are a woman and the one standing on top of the mountain to say someone fell from a vehicle, I do not understand. Hon. Kachepa is my friend and we are friends. He once told me that the house that he is staying was once stoned at night, but today I am saying to him how can acts of violence occur within your constituency? Hon. Kachepa it is being said that your car was used to carry the people who were involved in the violent attack. It pains me. If this story is not true we want Hon. Kachepa and Hon. Katsande to clear their names. If they do not do so we will continue to call them murderers because we do not want such people in this august House. This is Parliament and we stand for the ordinary Zimbabwean. If we the leaders are causing violence then what kind of leaders are we? These two hon. members never speak here in Parliament, so, is their job to murder when they cannot even speak in this House? How did they become Members of Parliament if they cannot speak?

I hear that Hon. Kachepa is using his late brothers' name. His real name is Trust and not Newton. His brother Newton passed away during the war. He is using his brothers' name to make people believe that he took part in the liberation struggle. I was there during the liberation struggle, but that does not mean that I can go and murder. It pains me that when we were talking about violence perpetrated against the MDC party some hon. members present here today, I shall not give their names, said that we deserved it. I want to tell them that today it may have happened to the MDC but tomorrow it will be your family. How would you feel? The murdered man was 67 years old. Let us learn to live together in peace so that our country can move forward.

We are thankful that the police arrested those involved but they have not finished their job as some of the perpetrators are walking free. Let me give you examples like in Glenview where a police officer was murdered. The accused persons are still in remand after a year and their case has not yet been heard in the courts. The second example is that which occurred in Shamva involving police officers. After three days they were arrested and on the fourth day they were released on US$50 bail. How can murderers be given a bail of US$50 and now in Mudzi North there is another case. We want to see how long the accused people will be in jail. Will they not be in jail for only three days before they are released? We want the police to do their job properly. If the President had been present here today even he would have said that his party no longer wants these people to be in the party. They have no right to be in Parliament. If I could move a motion I would move a motion that these two people be suspended from attending Parliament until it is found out that they were not directly involved in the violence. I thank you, Mr. Speaker.

*MR. RARADZA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak on such an issue. It is true that any case of murder is painful. It does not matter who would be responsible for the murder. His Excellency, the President, always speaks out against violence. We are all against violence. Those that perpetrate violence should be brought to book. Let us not talk as if we do not know where we are coming from and where we are going because our leaders are against violence. So let us unite on this issue of denouncing violence.

*MRS. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I also want to add my voice on the issue of violence that was also mentioned by the Head of State Comrade R. G. Mugabe. Comrade Mugabe emphasised that violence should not be tolerated at all. I think that we, as Members of Parliament should also emulate and understand what the leaders of the country say. No one wants violence, the country does not want violence and the leaders do not want violence. Whoever engages in violence, Judas and Satan should face the consequences. That is the only solution; it should not matter where violence has taken place.

Violence is not for ZANU PF or MDC but it is for the individual. If people are saying no to violence even us as women have made an agreement that amongst women we do not want to hear of violence because we are the ones who gave birth to those children. We are the ones who carry them for nine months, so what Cde. R G Mugabe is always saying is we should be seen to be listening as well. He talks of non violent behavior day and night, even at rallies, that is what he talks of first.

Whoever engages in violence should not look for someone or something to hide behind. If you engage in violence, you should end it as an individual. We want to urge our police force that they are doing a good job by arresting those who engage in violence but we should not blame the police that they are the ones who free the perpetrators of violence from jail. Every person has a right, in the event of being arrested, to engage a lawyer, if the law finds it necessary for your case to be dealt with whilst on bail. That is a judicial ruling on you, the perpetrator and has nothing to do with the police. So, let us not blame the police for something they do not have control over. The ZRP is very efficient and effective. They arrest the perpetrator and they do not have any judicial powers to preside over a case. I stood up to say that violence in this country has been condemned and even the insane do not want violence.

The war that we engaged in since 1975 was enough and we now have our independence as the black majority. Therefore there is no reason for us to fight. If the Head of State denounces violence, who are you to perpetrate violence? Thank you Mr. Speaker.

ENG. MUDZURI : Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to join my colleagues in condemning violence in any form in this country as was pronounced by the President in his speech. We, as Parliamentarians must look at violence not only on the Mudzi case, which is the latest which you were talking about, but all the violence that has been perpetrated against our people. I want to applaud the opposition members for realizing that violence should be condemned in whatever form it comes to us.

If we look at violence, some of it is not just perpetrated by individuals. Violence, which we are not condemning, is also state sponsored violence which I would like to appeal to the Executive to ensure that there is no state sponsored violence which exists in this country.

There are people in this country who work within the security forces, who are afraid of performing their duties in their professional senses because they are afraid of leaving their jobs. There are sentiments by certain security forces which are tantamount to violence in other forms by refusing certain people to run this country if they win an election. That is violence in its own form. We cannot condone that kind of violence.

We have seen violence being perpetrated against even members of the armed forces like vaMujuru. That was serious violence when he was burnt to nothing and as a nation, as Parliamentarians and as the Executive, we must condemn violence in every form. Today, we have several organs which are looking at violence and that shows that the worst enemy in this country is violence.

We have the reconciliation group being led by the Vice President Nkomo, Mrs. Holland and Mr. Mzila Ndlovu. That organ alone shows that we have behaved in a violent manner for too long and it is part of the GPA that we never allow violence to be in existence, whether it is election time or not; hence, we want to appeal to all of us including the Executive to ensure that we now have a zero tolerance to violence in whatever programme we are engaging in. Soon, we are likely to go for elections in the next coming year and when we go for elections, I do not think any one of us wants to represent a person through the use of violence. You would not want to represent a nation through the use of violence, through eliminating someone and using the youths, enticing them to be killers and then they grow up burdened by that problem of being murderers for the rest of their lives. We cannot create soldiers of violence in a nation which we want to build.

There is also commercial crime which is being committed and we must stop that violence in the commercial circles. There is a lot of pilferages which are tantamount to violence, to the general population of the country and we must stop all that so that we prosper as a nation.

I want to say every one of us must not work to win an election alone but we must work so that we ensure that our people entrust us with their lives and we leave a legacy for the generations to come.

*MRS. NYAMUPINGA: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to support other female hon. members who are opposing violence. Violence is the reason why women do not like to participate in politics. Perpetrators of violence must be punished so that it will send a warning to would-be perpetrators of violence. We are hearing names of these perpetrators of violence, and we have done our workshops as women caucus to see what can be done so that we encourage women to come into politics. Women must launch a campaign to end violence; we were touched by the story of a 67 year old who perished in violence. It is a pity that people of such ages should die in violence. As women, we are urging the police to investigate such cases and to bring the perpetrators to book.

In prisons, there are a lot of people who committed no crime, but are there because the police did not do their duties properly. Police must investigate such cases properly. We are very touched to learn that there are some women who are involved in cases of violence; it shows that we as women's caucus have failed. We must know so that we can put such shameless behavior to an end. We are here in this Parliament to help each other and to debate issues for the good governance of our country. I thank you Mr. Speaker.

MR. MADZIMURE : Thank you Mr. Speaker, I was here in this house when the President delivered his speech and when he got to the issue of violence he even asked us to say after him 'no violence', and it was when he had recalled what had happened in 2008. The speech that came from the President was a sobering speech that covered all the issues which must pre-occupy us as members of Parliament. He talked about a number of Bills which had to be brought before this House and it is said that up to now we do not have any Bills. If there is going to be one session we have not delivered in terms of its legislative responsibility it is going to be the 7th Parliament of Zimbabwe, not because we are not prepared to debate the Bills which should be laid for the good governance of our people, it is because the Executive is letting us down.

There are several pieces of legislation that need to be reviewed Mr. Speaker. It is true that we have Bills like Public Order and Security Act (POSA), that piece of legislation has not helped the people of Zimbabwe but it has helped a group of individuals who think that their survival is dependent on patronage and this group of people cannot convince anyone that they are worthy to be the leaders they claim to be. Hon. Gonese did a splendid job to sponsor a private members Bill which was passed through this Parliament, unfortunately it is facing a tough time in the Senate, not because the amendments were not good, but because there is another issue of patronage which is causing all these problems in that Senate.

Mr. Speaker when we look at POSA, it is a matter of concern how the police use this piece of legislation. Are they using it to promote peace in this country or it is being used to make sure that any descenting voice is crushed? The UN Ambassador on Human Rights Mrs. Pillay was in this country, and she listened to people talking and she also even read some of the issues in the newspapers. She concluded by saying that Zimbabwe is not as it claims to be, a democracy. There was an issue which was raised by Hon. Munengami regarding the selective application of the law. There are pieces of legislation to make sure that the police deal with issues of crime and violence, but it has been used selectively to the extent that we have 29 people in prison all being accused of killing one man. It has been a year and we are going into the second year but nothing has happened. In Shamva, a person was killed by law enforcements agents, but they are out on US$50 bail, that is the gravity of the matter. Who in his proper sense can understand why 29 people are languishing in remand prison. Some of these people were in church when this incidence occurred. The other person was attending to his wife who had had a miscarriage, it is known, it is documented and the names of the people are there at some institutions. The police know it, even the courts know that. Our courts are also to blame as far as some of these things are concerned.

Mr. Speaker, the President talked about the economy. This is another form of violence against our people. We claim to be one of the richest countries in the world but Zimbabwe cannot compare with Switzerland. What do we have to show when we say we are the richest countries in the world. What do we have to show that we are rich in mineral resources like platinum and diamonds. Let us not talk about diamonds anymore because it is a private property. It is other people's property and not Zimbabwean property. I say so because the Treasury is not getting anything from these natural resources.

The President also talked about peace. It is sad for a political party to think that it is doing a favour to its leadership. When President Mugabe went to Angola, the people of ZANU PF in Mudzi prepared a bomb which they handed over to him and his aides which he could not drop until he got to Angola and he came back with the same bomb. The President could not speak in Angola. There was a corpse waiting to be buried, it was very clear that his party was involved. I wonder whether the people of Mudzi are still as primitive as we were so many years ago. Mr. Magura was killed in a gruesome act of murder. We viewed his body and imagine, the attendants had to stitch a corpse to try and make sure that the face looks like a human being. Imagine, people stoning a 67 year old until he dies and even have the audacity to open his mouth and pour sand into his mouth. This is a primitive way of killing people. We are talking of young people who are doing this, young legislators. If God blesses them with many years, they will live up to 90 or so years. That crime will not die a natural death.

This is not the first murder, David Chimukoko has several dockets. In 2008, he did things which were unimaginable. They went to a woman in her 40s and beat her up. She tried to protect herself from the beating with her right hand and they broke the right hand. She tried to use the other hand and they also broke the left hand. They struck her head with an iron bar. She had a broken leg and 8 stitches. We visited that woman together with the Prime Minister. Another man was also beaten and his hands were tied and they poured cow dung into his mouth and dumped him in the bush close to a kraal. On the second day, a cow came across that person and it jumped. A kid who was nearby saw the cow jump and alerted the elders that there could be something. He was found 24 hours after he was dumped there. These things are documented. If the screens were working, we would be able to play the videos which narrate exactly what happened. So, when we talk about the International Criminal Court, the issue of justice, I think one day there will be a judgement day. Some of these people who are doing this are too young. For them to think that there will never be change which will enable the people of Zimbabwe to drag them before the courts is a fallacy. There is nothing that does not change in life. I was in Mozambique attending the ruling party's meeting, unfortunately my colleagues from ZANU PF were not there. In the region people are starting to realise that you cannot stop change. Zambia was represented by PF, not UNIP anymore. In Botswana there you now have problems of factionalism as well. People are starting to question how things are being done, they are starting to look back and say, are we doing the right things.

The issue of depending on the security sector to protect a party will also come to an end. I do not blame every soldier because of some of the speeches which we hear. On the contrary, most of the soldiers are saying they are professional people. One of the Major Generals in the army made a speech and said that there can only be one party that is ZANU PF. Four weeks down the line, a person was killed. What does this tell us? We are calling for elections, yes, that is what we fought for. Tongogara used to say we fought for one man one vote, let us allow our people to exercise that right. We cannot say we were fighting Smith saying we want one man one vote. There comes a black man and says one man one vote but that vote to me - (laughter) - I am sorry for President Mugabe for presiding over young people who do not even understand what the liberation war was all about. He is being forced to defend the indefensible. You are giving him a burden, imagine talking to young people. The majority of the people in SADC are all young, young to be his children and he goes all the way to Angola knowing very well that you have killed a person. You want him to go and convince SADC that we want elections. How does he defend it? So Mr. Speaker, it is so sad, there is no country that can prosper under this environment.

MR. MAVIMA: I would like to add a few words to the Presidential Speech in particular reference to the issue relating to violence. If you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, peace and security are the basic fundamentals required in life and ranked as the most important in our lives. Now when peace and security are threatened by violence, it disturbs the whole moral fibre of society. Violence is a deadly and very divisive element of society and it must be eradicated forthwith. We cannot sit here as parliamentarians, as citizens of Zimbabwe and condone violence of any nature. I would like to see this Parliament create an organ possibly called Parliamentarians against Violence because very soon we would be going into elections. Most of us will be fighting each other. I hope we will be fighting each other intellectually and with what we can deliver as opposed to fighting each other with violence.

There is no alternative to peace and it does not matter who perpetrates that violence. We as parliamentarians, as citizens of Zimbabwe must condemn it as it is. We must allow the police, the security forces to do their job and to do it thoroughly until those that are guilty are found and jailed. Mr. Speaker Sir, if you plant a bed of roses, you must be able to lie on it. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

MS. A. NDHLOVU: Thank Mr. Speaker Sir. Allow me to add my voice to the motion on the Presidential Speech. Let me start by thanking Hon. Zhuwao for moving the motion and secondly thank His Excellency the President and Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces Cde. R. G. Mugabe for such a wonderful speech which seeks to bring the nation together. Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand here very saddened, saddened I am Mr. Speaker because we see violence eruption once more in our country particularly in Mudzi, Mashonaland East.

Mr. Speaker Sir, His Excellency in his speech was very clear and I quote. He said, "as we forge ahead, let us continue to exert our energy in fostering unity, peace, development and equality of opportunity of all our people. Rather than amplify our differences, let us find strength in diversity guided by the firm conviction that we are the sole guidance of our independence and sovereignty. I therefore wish to urge you as Members of Parliament and leaders in our own right to preach the message of national healing, reconciliation amongst our people. Let us therefore, in unison, say no to violence in all its manifestations."

Mr. Speaker Sir and hon. members, His Excellency was very clear and it is only fair that we as leaders in this country take heed of His Excellency's call for tolerance and non-violence. I condemn violence Mr. Speaker Sir, of all forms at all levels and it does not matter who perpetrates it. Whoever perpetrates violence, justice has to take its course. Mr. Speaker Sir, as said by the previous speakers, the youth are the major victims of violence and I stand here to speak against violence because the young people some of them are sent to do it. Some of them do it on their own, but we need, as Members of Parliament, to lead by example and speak against violence not only in this august House, but even back in our constituencies and in the provinces where we come from.

Mr. Speaker Sir, I always say that the right to democracy is one of the benefits that came with independence and that right to democracy manifests itself through the ballot box. So whoever takes part in violence before doing or after an election Mr. Speaker Sir, seeks to reverse the gains of the struggle and such an individual is nothing but an enemy of the people. Such an individual Mr. Speaker Sir is nothing but an enemy of our independence and sovereignty. Such an individual Mr. Speaker Sir, is an enemy to the territorial integrity of this nation and Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand here to denounce violence and I want to say that whoever did the things that were said were done, must face the wrath of the law.

I want to thank the security forces for being very effective and I want to urge them to do a good job and say to whoever did it, the long arm of the law will catch up with them. Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand against violence this afternoon because women are the major recipients of violence; be it domestic, political or whatever form. I want to say that as leaders, the reconciliation and tolerance that His Excellency spoke about should not only be in this House. We are able to tell one another that we should be able Mr. Speaker Sir, to take it down to the people that we lead right down to the cell level, to the ward level in this country so that the country is governable.

We do not want anarchy Mr. Speaker Sir, and I want to stand here and add my voice and say that I for one am a victim of violence. Apparently it is so sad it was perpetrated on me by a member of this august House but I thank God I survived. Mr. Speaker Sir, as I strongly condemn violence, I want to congratulate JOMIC on the statement that it made yesterday condemning violence, but we want to see results in the province where it was done. Munhu anenge aita nyaya yake ngaaipedze ega.

So I want to thank and congratulate the members of JOMIC on a job well done and probably also encourage the organ on National Healing. I do not think it is doing enough because tolerance at the grassroots level is still very impossible if it is non-existent. So, I want to urge organ on National Healing to tighten up their boots and be like JOMIC it must decentralize right to the ward level so that tolerance levels are higher Mr. Speaker Sir.

Mr. Speaker, I want to add by quoting Galatians 6: Vs 7, which says, "be not be deceived for God cannot be fooled for whatever a man sows that he shall reap. Musanyengerwe, Mwari haasekwi. Whatever a man sows that he shall reap. So I want to say we do not know who did it like what Hon. Mushonga always say, Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but we want all those who are implicated that the course of justice be allowed to take its course. Should they be found guilty, Mr. Speaker Sir, I think the laws of this country, the judicial laws are very clear with regards to what should happen to them, but I want to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity and once again speak against violence in the strongest terms possible.

I would want to urge all the young people in this country to be able to tolerate one another. We differ politically, religiously etc, but the challenges that we face as young people are the same and we have more that unify us than that which divides us. So Mr. Speaker, thank you once again and Pasi ne violence.

*MS. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, let me take this opportunity to debate in support of the Presidential Speech which was brought to this House by President Robert Mugabe. It touches on the issues of peace, unity and the development of our nation. Today, let me talk about peace and unity, these issues are not being respected in our country. Let me remind the hon. members, especially ZANU PF members who used to defend themselves by pretending that they were not aware of violence and they ask questions as to whether this actually happened. I believe most of them now realise that violence took place especially those who are being implicated as perpetrators. Let me remind them of what happened in Gokwe concerning the issue of Moses Chokuda who was murdered and his burial caused problems. What I like about this issue is that Governor Machaya, who is a ZANU PF member had his son involved in murdering Moses Chokuda. They came out and requested to pay in order to appease the spirit and it was clear that ZANU PF was at fault and was involved in the murder of Moses Chokuda.

I also want to mention an issue that occurred in Mudzi. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my heart is pained concerning the name of the hon. member in this House Hon. Katsande. Let me say that I am burdened to give evidence on what I know about where she comes from. Let me remind those from ZANU PF to remind their fellow colleagues because as we speak in this House, the Chair Lady of MDC-T, which is a party headed by Morgan Richard Tsvangirai, since 2008, has not managed to go back to her home area where she built together with her family because of Hon. Katsande. Hon. Katsande and her child have a name in Mudzi, George Katsande. If you happen to go to Mudzi, her name and the child's name are always mentioned, which means that she is someone who is deeply rooted in violence. Even her appearance tallies with her violent nature.

As I stand here, I am a member of the Women's Caucus and I do not think I will be able to attend a meeting or a workshop as long as Hon. Katsande is present. If we are ideal women of Zimbabwe who want to build the nation, Hon. Katsande should not attend the Women's Caucus because she does not know what a woman stands for until she denounces violence. When I look at this situation I realise that this woman - some say that if one has not given birth, she does not know the pain that one experiences but this woman gave birth but what she does and what is expected of a woman are worlds apart. I was happy to hear one of the speakers say that we as members of the Women's Caucus we have a problem of increasing representation in politics because of the fear of violence. Let me say that if Hon. Katsande is still a member of Women's Caucus, we are saying no to her membership until she denounces violence.

Let me go on to the issue of the late Mr. Magura, to those who viewed the body, I feel sorry for Hon. Kachepa and Hon. Katsande. If you hear them talking, they say he fell, let me tell that if they had been there and looked at the body of Mr. Magura, your heart would bleed. His face was stoned and if one has done that, can we say that person is normal or you will be under the influence of mbanje. Let me remind this august House that most times when we speak we should know what to say and when to stop. If you go to Mudzi you will see that even when you get into a shop, there are those who close shops when they realise that those who have arrived are from MDC because of Hon. Katsande. Because they know that once she hears MDC members bought from that shop, they will be in big trouble.

Let me look at the issue of the security forces (ZRP), we want to thank the police who have worked hard, but let me say they have not completed the job because there are some who are still walking scot free - let me say that there is a man named Solomon Madzore. Madzore was arrested but was not in Glen View on that particular day. He had nothing to do with the murder of the policeman, but until today, he is still behind bars. What of Hon. Katsande and Hon. Kachepa who had their cars on the ground, who actually confess this is what happened, what are they still doing outside prison? We will only rest when these people are behind bars.

I want to end up by saying when the sun rises, what is left is for it to set. In Mudzi at the present moment, when I look at Hon. Kachepa's Constituency, they can confess that their winning was as a result of a few votes. There are four MDC councillors and three ZANU PF councilors, which means that this constituency has MDC and ZANU PF members. But if Hon. Kachepa and Hon. Katsande can not reflect on the results that there are more MDC members than ZANU PF, it is something else.

Let people make their own decision as to which party they want, not to use violence. So we are saying in this august House these honourables are dishonourables. There is no reason why we should continue calling you honourables because it reflects negatively in this august House. For that reason, I also say to Hon. Katsande, before I sit down that if I reflect on her background, one as a widow, it means that your husband passed on, what of Mrs. Magura, who actually cooked for her husband who was going to attend a rally to hear about the politics of the day from his party. Before she prepared supper, she heard that her husband had been murdered by ZANU PF supporters. How would you feel if your husband was to die in that manner, being stoned to death, would God deliver you from this act. I urge you hon. members to know God. Thank you Madam Speaker.

*MR. NDAMBAKUWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have decided to debate - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - ...

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon. members. Hon. Ndambakuwa you may stand up and debate.

*MR. NDAMBAKUWA : Thank you Madam Speaker. I would want to say that President Mugabe urged us to be peaceful, united and love one another. Some of the things that he urges us are now practicable because today we are now sharing accommodation in hotels as members of ZANU PF and MDC. We are able to discuss and we play football as members of the same team and these are some of the things that we are being urged to do. As leaders, we urge each other to continue behaving in this manner. The violence that we hear being perpetrated should be condemned because at one time we thought that if you were provoked, the only way to reiterate was by use of a knobkerrie. We have learnt that it does not profit anything because the persons who assaulted you when you were in grade one, you will never forget about them, they will become your number one enemy. Assaulting a person does not change one's mind so this will not help our country. Our country can only prosper if people work together and love one another.

I would like to say in Magunje Constituency, we have always abhorred violence. My constituency neighbour, that of Hon. Chambati, we are in-laws, therefore none of our respective supporters can attack each other because the two of us are related. Hence in English they say blood is thicker than water. This is what President Mugabe advocates for. If all of us were to heed our President's call, Zimbabwe will become a prosperous nation, but we must walk our talk. We have Hobho Makota, whose homestead was burnt on the 27th of June, 2010 and his baby child was burnt in the process. The houses were set on fire by Bhudhe Themba of Mukonori who wanted Jesus Muwunde of MDC who lives at St Boniface. Hon. Chambati came and condemned this behavior and the child of an innocent baby was lost. We should not just blame ZANU PF for violence, violence should not be countenanced at all regardless of which political party is sponsoring or fanning it.

We should not apportion blame to all members of ZANU PF or members of MDC, anyone who would have committed an offence should be arrested. I will refer to the Bible, in Hebrews 13 verse 6, it says that "The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what man shall do unto me?" Those who have not understood this verse can approach me at my hotel for a better understanding.

Madam Speaker, I would want to use the same words that are used to condemn murder but some of these murders are caused by the non-availability of police officers at meetings. The meeting would have been held without the police as a platform for attacking another political party. I am urging members to desist from provoking other members of a different political persuasion. Madam Speaker, as I speak right now, there are some hon. members shouting that they are going to sort me out. So when I see this coming, I have no choice but to defend myself. Sort me out in what manner, by assaulting me or involving me in an accident? As hon. members, we should go and lead our people by example. The President's words urging us to be non-violent are also being preached by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Ministers and the Vice Presidents. What is surprising me is that - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - this is what is called heckling. You hear them clamouring that if we are murdered, we will also murder in return. But in the Bible, Jesus said that if you are hit on the right cheek, you should turn the left cheek. We cannot retaliate, but all we can do is to pray for demonic influences from the west so that it can be exorcised from our leadership so that we cannot sink low, to the extent of committing murder, so that we should not misbehave in our political parties. By so doing, we will be heeding the call by President Mugabe. Madam Speaker, I am happy to hear hon. members on the other side saying that they support President Mugabe when he condemns violence. This helps us to tell the outside world that we forgive the MDC members for trespassing against us and we hope that they will also forgive us for also trespassing against them. If we were only to do that we will be able to build a good Zimbabwe, and whoever won, we will follow them. As hon. members we should practice what we preach, for failure to do that will lead others into defending themselves. Madam Speaker I thank you for the opportunity that you have afforded me.

*MRS. MASAITI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I am quite hurt as I rise to speak in support of the President's speech when he mentioned that time was now ripe for us to desist from violence in Zimbabwe so that other countries will give us our due respect. I urge that as Zimbabwean Members of Parliament, we should be in the forefront in heeding our leader's calls for non violence, but instead we find ourselves inciting the youth to commit violence. I say so because I was hurt by the murder of Mr. Magura.

As a woman, I am disturbed by the death of a human being. I failed to attend the burial because my child had fallen sick at school, so I had to go and attend to my child. But my mind and spirit was in Mudzi. I feel quite hurt when I think of the word Mudzi because personally in 2008, people from Mudzi traumatised me. A lot of people, mostly women, came maimed from this area. The women chronicled the horrific events that they were being subjected to in Mudzi. Since 2008 Mudzi, Mutoko and Uzumba Maramba Pfungwe recorded the highest cases of violence, I have that record. Most of you were reading in the newspapers that in 2008, there was violence.

As a Harare MP, I was abducted from Harvest House as I was trying to assist men, women and children who were being subjected to cases of having their relatives murdered, disappearing, of relatives who have not been located up to now. It is alleged that people were being thrown in water pools and as a result their whereabouts are unknown. You would meet others who would tell you that all they had on their persons is all they had on their lives since they had no food, no home and everything had been destroyed. You will end up crying instead of you consoling the person who is giving you the narration. I was quite hurt mostly by people coming from Mudzi. I was hoping that when our leader deplored violence, Members of Parliament from Mudzi would be in the fore front in condemning violence and its ills. I am suprised that there has been a perpetuation of violence in Mudzi, involving hon. Members of Parliament.

This is shameful, I say so directing this mostly to Mrs. Katsande who is a female Member of Parliament, if these allegations are true, you have brought shame on all of us female Members of Parliament. Because as women, we have advocated for non violence, we have always clamoured for more female Members of Parliament, but this cannot come to fruition if the allegations leveled against Hon. Katsande are true. I urge Hon. Katsande to apologise to Parliament and to the Women's Caucus because as Women's Caucus we agreed not to countenance violence.

The current Women's Caucus is different from all previous caucuses. We used to have hatred as members of different political parties. In the current caucus, we have friends across the political divide. The current state of affairs in our Women's Caucus shows that we are now politically mature as the people's leaders. As women we should lead by example and be tolerant to divergent political views which will lead to a reduction in violence. As we speak Madam Speaker, we still have women who were raped in 2008 coming from Mudzi seeking assistance because their children are now ill. They could not come up in the open, imagine how painful it is for someone who was raped in 2008 and is infected, but now only coming forward to seek treatment four years down the line.

If the allegations about Hon. Katsande are true, then she should be punished.

MR. MUTSEYAMI: When the President, Cde. R. G. Mugabe gave his speech in this august House, he said that there should be no violence, three times he said, 'No to violence.' When we consider what happened to Mr. Magura who was the Chairperson of MDC-T, he woke up early at his home with the intention of going to the rally. The rally was authorized by the Zimbabwe Republic Police. It was under the security of the Zimbabwean Police. These police officers had guns. Violence erupted. We heard from newspapers and MPs we have in this House (Hon. Katsande and Kachepa) also spoke to the media. This name called Honourable is very respectable and if you find an hon. member going mingling in front of such issues (it is said they carried people with their vehicles), it means they had the anointing. Until dawn, they were giving the youths some beer and marijuana. I do not think it was beer alone. For people to get to a point of killing someone using stones!

The MDC-T people said they called for assistance from then police after telling them that there is violence but it is said the police did nothing and in addition they ran away from the place. Like one Hon. Member of this Parliament, I feel pained and I wish the leader of the party ZANU PF should scrutinise these hon. members to determine where their power is coming from. They go against what their party leader would have said. What these Hon. Members of Parliament are doing, inciting and participating in violent behavior leading to deaths of other people, in other words they are inciting a wrong spirit so that the President R. G. Mugabe will end up in future in the Hague. Why are they doing such things?

We do not want hon. members who encourage violence in the communities which may cause party leaders to end up in The Hague. So, this issue should not be allowed at all and the party should discipline its people according to its party hierarchy and deal with Kachepa and Katsande. They should speak out as to what happened. Of course the state will perform its duty but the party should be seen performing its duty on this violence issue.

God is the one who gives us life. Life is taken by God but if you see another human being going out clearly to take another human being's life and a person expected to lead the nation; we should be people who respect life and we should be a nation that respects God. It is said God created man in his own image. If you Kachepa and Katsande together with your youths decide to take other people's lives, it means you are not appreciating God and that is blaspheming God. In other words, you are not respecting God -[AN HON. MEMBER: Kachepa, hausi mufananidzo waMwari ka uyu!]-

Last time, we went to Lesotho where elections were being held. I was with Senator Khumalo, and Hon. Chinomona. All the days we were there, there was no day that we heard that a person from the opposition party was arrested by the Police. There was no day we heard that people were beaten and that others were beating others. Everything was done peacefully. The leader was not successful at the polls for him to continue in power and he resigned. All these things were done properly and there was no negotiating team that was sent to say you have to share the posts. No, there is no delegation that went there. Even for soldiers to rise up and say what they wanted, no, there was nothing like that.

So, we appeal for that spirit to prevail here in Zimbabwe - a spirit that respects the desires of the people, a spirit that fosters peace in our nation. The spirit that Kachepa and Katsande perpetrates should be condemned by ZANU PF. ZANU PF should give a public statement condemning this spirit.

I want to thank Hon. Oppah Muchinguri for giving the statement on behalf of JOMIC condemning this issue. As leaders, we want it to go beyond that. The party itself should take these people to task.

I ask the Magura family that when they shall be performing their rituals, they should sit down and do their rituals and invole the spirit which should go to the Katsande family, the Kachepa family and the Chatikobo family. These people should be cursed in their lives. If they were involved in killing Mr. Magura, the spirit should be invoked to make sure that these people become lunatic before we vote -[AN HON. MEMBER: Vafambe vasina hembe]-

These things, if there is a problem in Mashonaland East, I will ask the Magura family to call me and I will refer you to the witch doctors in Chipinge who can help you. We do not want people who kill other people. Let us respect what we are being told by our leaders. When we respect that, we should preach what our leaders preach.

I want to thank JOMIC and advise that if you can, go back to Mudzi early and talk to these people. Preach the spirit of peace and make people have the right spirit. I thank Mr. Speaker for the opportunity he has given me and also to thank the people who are preaching peace. The President of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC-T) Mr. Tsvangirai, the President of ZANU PF, Mr. Mugabe and the President of MDC-M, Professor Mutambara. We want to thank you and we are saying you should go around that country preaching peace so that by the time we go for the elections; the spirit of respect will be in everyone.

I want to thank all the hon. members for listening whilst I was speaking. I believe when we shall be leaving this place, we shall continue to preach the word of peace and telling people all over the bad things that have happened in the Magura family. We also have to preach that those who did that are Mr. Kachepa and Mrs. Katsande. These were at the forefront. We have to encourage the churches to preach peace and to pray so that these people (Katsande and Kachepa) can become mad before we get to the next election.

+MR. NCUBE : Thank you Madam Speaker, I would like to add on to the speech that was given by the President when this session was opened when he said that violence should end. It is a good thing to see a nation develop without any violence. However, we are just about to finish our term and we have been talking about violence in which some of the Members of Parliament partake, which is not a good thing. As I speak about this issue, it is good that the Minister of Defence is around. I guess the one for Home Affairs has left. If we want to stop violence in the country we would like the Minister of Defence to issue a statement that the duty of the soldiers is to maintain peace and not to partake in any political matters. If they want to take part in political matters, they should resign and become a part of us. They have a platform and they can join parties they want to join. If they are in uniform, they have to be non partisan. That was the first thing I wanted to talk about, that causes violence in many countries as revealed by history. It is clear that every ruling party, when it is now losing uses the uniformed forces, which is bad. Now I will talk about the police. What is sad is that in the Office of the President yesterday, there was tear gas right here in Munhumutapa. Teargas where thrown around and the people who were being attacked were not armed at all. We want a professional force, whether it is police or soldiers.

MS. A. NDHLOVU: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. The hon. member is not addressing the chair but addressing the Minister of Defence.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no point of order. Can the hon. member go ahead?

MR. NCUBE: Thank you madam speaker for protecting me. We have realised in other countries that when there are demonstrations, the police are able to control people. That is what we are looking for from the police in our nation. We do not want them to be throwing tear gas when there are demonstrations because that is bad. We want our ministers to issue statements against such things and we want professionalism from the police and the soldiers. On this issue of violence, the problem is that since 1980, we did not discuss about the issue of violence such that the people who had caused it were arrested and it has come to be accepted that even if you kill during elections, no one arrests you. It has become a culture. We have relatives who died around the 1980 and 1985. That does not surprise us and it does not shock us. The people who were behind that are known up to today. If we do not talk about this issue it will continue happening. In 2008, it also happened. If you bandage a sore and you tell yourself it has healed, it is bad and so the same people continue to kill. We would like the leaders of the three parties to meet and issue statements that we do not want violence and we would like them to maintain their stand point even when they get to their parties.

I also want to talk about the organ of national healing and JOMIC. JOMIC tries to perform its functions. However, national healing, where there is the Vice President of a country, is not doing much, when he is the one that is supposed to be leading in dealing with this issue of violence. As I stand here, I am looking forward to us as Members of Parliament denouncing violence. I would like to say to the Magura family, that lost one of its members that God knows. May his soul rest in peace. God is the one who knows what he will do with the Murderers. I thank you.

+MR. MABHENA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to add on with my vernacular language. The President of this nation spoke about the issue of violence. The problem we have as Zimbabweans is that we do not practice what we speak. What we spoke about is not what we are doing. The issue that we are talking about today was touched on in the Presidential Speech. The people of Zimbabwe believe that violence is the way forward and the proper way of living. We all know that the youth, our children, have nothing that they can do without people who have money or elders influencing them. It is the leaders who buy them alcohol and they are carried by the cars of the leaders. It is sad that Members of Parliament who should be fighting against violence are the ones who are funding it. We know that we gained our freedom in 1980, however, people still want to fight. I would like to emphasize what was said by the last speaker that this tendency started during the Gukurahundi. The problems that we had were not fixed. The leaders avoided this issue and pretended as if it never happened so up to today, people do whatever they want as if it is right. Zimbabwe will not develop because our neighbouring countries have developed. Violence is under development. A nation cannot develop in any way with violence. Madam Speaker, we are encouraging all the members in this House who are leading people, to lead by example. They need to be the ones to speak about peace, respect and developing the country. The leaders should not be the ones encouraging the youth, buying them beer to go and beat up people. I would like to emphasise that it is quite bad, violence should stop such that development can happen. People fought for independence so that people can vote for the parties that they want freely without any discrimination. That is very important. Those who are partaking in violence should be taken to courts and they should be arrested so that our country can go forward. Thank you.

*MR. MUPUKUTA: Thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity to applaud the words from the Head of State and Government Comrade Mugabe that were given in this House. Madam Speaker, the Head of State Comrade Mugabe, openly condemned violence as it does not lead to development. I want to say that as Members of Parliament in this House, when we debate such issues, we should really think and consider such issues seriously. If you are chosen by the people to be a member of this august House, there are a lot of things that they will be expecting from you. When we discuss such issues we should think deeply.

I want to openly say that our party ZANU PF that is led by Comrade Mugabe does not support violence. This was the first party to bring peace to this country and it was also the first party to bring reconciliation. So, I do not see this party in any way inciting or supporting violence in this country. Above all our First Secretary Comrade Mugabe, is the one who is condemning violence.

What we want to discuss in this House is that there is a shona adage which says amutsa tsuro ndeyake. If I start a problem as Mupukuta, it has nothing to do with ZANU PF because ZANU PF is a party that has its mandate and does not send one to engage in violence. I am hearing in this House that members are saying Hon. Katsande and Hon. Kachepa are ZANU PF so, whatever they are being accused of is ZANU PF. That is not the case. This august House does not qualify to advise any political party on actions to take. Each political party does whatever they see as necessary based on the circumstances before them.

I want to assist other Members in this House, I am sorry Madam Chair, before you took the Chair, you made reference to violence in Gokwe. I am sorry to say that the issue that is problematic in such cases is that we mention them without full knowledge and understanding of the issue. I want to assist you on the issue that you mentioned; the Gokwe issue was not politically motivated. The issue was one whereby someone went to break into another person's shop. Unless you want to tell me that being MDC is licence for theft, then it is something else.

So, we need to understand these issues and have facts at our finger tips. So, the Gokwe issue has nothing to do with the issue under discussion in this House. It is just as good as when you walk into a street and someone snatches a wallet from you then people start shouting; stop thief! All people will chase after the thief. So, we need to understand such issues. The issue at hand Madam Speaker…..

MR. MAHLANGU: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The hon. member is referring to an incident that took place in Gokwe on Chokuda. This case was heard in a court of law and there was a judgment and I believe that those people are in jail today. They were found guilty of killing Chokuda and there is no way that a Member of Parliament can come in this august House and challenge a court's decision. Thank you very much.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mupukuta, can you debate.

*MR. MUPUKUTA: Thank you Madam Speaker, it is problematic when people do not have the full information. I am talking about how events happened in Gokwe.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you debate your motion Honorable, do not address the members.

*MR. MUPUKUTA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to speak on the motion before the House concerning some of the hon. members mentioned in this House. Hon. Kachepa and Hon. Katsande, I was thinking that in the Republic of Zimbabwe, we have security agents and police who are highly trained and qualified. Let us give them the opportunity to do their work. If we want to pass judgment in here then it loses meaning, so we should allow the police to do their investigations. I am happy that the police are doing their job efficiently. Those breaking the law are being arrested and no one will be left out if involved in this issue before the House.

On the issue of investigations taking place I heard the other hon. members mentioning cars that were seen at the scene. What I ask of this august House is that we, as MPs should not be found inciting youths to engage in violence because right now this issue has become so bad. When this incident took place the vehicles at the scene were not only ZANU PF. Even the other party had vehicles loaded with supporters and alcohol. So, what it means is that even where you are or on your side there are some who actually were involved in this incident. So, you should be careful that one day you will be ashamed and surprised that when the investigations are done you will also be implicated. We should let the police do their work. What I want to say today is that our party ZANU PF does not condone violence. I urge that we, in this House should be mature and display maturity in what we want for our country to develop. Thank you very much Madam Speaker.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Vehicle Number ABI 8749, Red KB ISUZU is blocking other cars. Can the owner please go and move it out of the way.

*MR. GARADHI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to debate on violence. We can debate yes, but this violence is being promoted by the Executive. Violence did not start in 2008, it started in the 80s where a group of people was sent to destroy people in Matabeleland and Midlands. Yes, they do denounce violence at political rallies but what happens on the ground is different from what they say. If it was their will to say no to violence then it should have been a thing of the past by now. If the rule of law was being practiced in this country some of the hon. members who are in this House should have been in prison by now. Some killed people, some raped and burnt people's houses.

You hear the Executive saying, no to violence at rallies in the afternoon, but in the evening they send youths and you will hear that homes have been destroyed, and people have been killed. I represent Chinhoyi, there was a team known as top 6, Hon. Ndambakuwa was one the people who burnt people's houses and killed people. Hon. Ndambakuwa amputated Mr. Kwenda's leg but today he is free and the person is disabled right now. It only shows that there is no rule of law in our country. There is no democracy in this country because democracy must not force people to do what they do not want; people must be free to choose churches, football teams, and political parties of their choice.

Madam Speaker, you reap what you sow, these people will reap what they sowed one day. The rule of law will be enforced one day, we only have a few months to elections so that these cases can be looked into. We book in advance if we are to have a rally, the problem is the police officers that we are being given are not Zimbabwe Republic Police Officers, they are green bombers. In Mudzi, there are people who deceived people by wearing military uniforms and they started beating people. There are no police officers in this country, the country is filled with green bombers who are parading as police officers and beating people. We used to be colonized by whites but now lawlessness is being practiced by our fellow Africans.

I want to thank all those who have contributed to this motion, there must be rule of law in this country people must be free to choose political parties of their choice, wear what they want, exercise freedom of speech etc but in this country all this is not allowed. I want to pass my condolence to all those who were murdered especially the spirit of Cephas Mugari Magura must rest in peace. I thank you.

*MR. CHIRUME: I thank you Mr. Speaker, the President preaches peace all the time but the people of ZANU PF will be beating people all the time. Regarding the constituency where a person was murdered, it is represented by Hon. Kachepa. Even if he was not the one responsible why is it that he did not even attend the funeral? He did not even bother to be there because he was afraid of his crime. He was asked by Hon. Chimhini in Public Works Committee about the murder that took place in his constituency, his car was there ferrying people to Mudzi but he is saying that it was a meeting for the farmers. Hon. Mupukuta said that MDC-T cars were seen ferrying people, the cars were ferrying people because there was a rally for MDC which the police was aware of.

The Chairman for Mashonaland East does not stay in Mudzi, so he has to go there by his vehicle that is why MDC vehicles were seen there. It is the ZANU PF people that started the violence. Hon. Kachepa is on record for violence because it was once in the Herald newspaper that his house is haunted because he killed people in the 2008 elections. If it was another paper we would have said they are against ZANU PF but now it is the Herald. He did not dispute on that matter, the hon. member is soft spoken but he is a murderer. We are appealing Hon. Muchinguri that she talk to Hon. Kachepa….

*MR. MUPUKUTA: Madam Speaker on a point of order the hon. member is using unparliamentary language because there is no evidence that Hon. Kachepa is a murderer.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is unfortunate that I do not quite follow Shona that is where my problem is, can you please maybe explain what he is saying.

MR. MUPUKUTA: The hon. member is saying that the hon. member is prominently known as a murderer which is very wrong.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oder, hon. member if you do not have evidence to that, kindly withdraw.

*MR. CHIRUME:We have witnesses that came to us and said Hon. Kachepa murdered people, we have 23 people who were killed by Hon. Kachepa it was written in the Herald, when this debate started Hon. Munengami said that if the hon. member is in dispute to what we are saying he must stand up and object. Why is Hon. Mupukuta defending him when he is present in this House, if the hon. member is not agreeing let him speak for himself.

MR. MUPUKUTA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, can the hon. member justify his statement because Hon. Kachepa was never convicted of any case concerning murder.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon. member since Hon. Kachepa has not been convicted can you kindly withdraw that.

*MR. CHIRUME : I withdraw. As a party, we shall bring to this House the evidence of the violence that took place in Hon. Kachepa's constituency, Hon. Kachepa was behind that violence. It is common knowledge in Mudzi that there is a guy called Katsande who is known for terrorising MDC members.

Madam Speaker, what shows us that Hon. Kachepa knows about the murder of Mr. Magura is the fact that he says Mr. Magura was not stoned to death but that he fell off from a moving truck. How does he know that he fell from a truck when he was not at the scene? Where was he when all these things happened? This afternoon we had that discussion in the park with Hon. Karenyi and Hon. Kachepa said that Mr. Magura was wounded at the back. How does he know that? Hon. Karenyi saw him and she said that he was wounded in the face. Hon. Kachepa has some information on the murder of Mr. Magura. Hon. members made reference to Mr. Solomon Madzore. Mr. Solomon Madzore is the leader of the MDC-T National Youth Assembly Chairman of the MDC. He was arrested because they suspected MDC youths had murdered a policeman in Glen View. Mr. Kachepa should also be arrested because he is the MP for the constituency. He is supposed to know what transpired because his vehicle was used to ferry the people who killed the deceased.

+MR. S. KHUMALO: Thank you …. - [MR. MUPUKUTA: Akarohwa nembanje]- -[Laughter]-

MR. S. KHUMALO: First of all, I would like to ask Hon. Mupukuta to withdraw what he said. The hon. member said that I am under the influence of mbanje. I would like to highlight that I was discharged in the courts on the issue that he is talking about.

MR. MUPUKUTA: I withdraw.

+MR. S. KHUMALO: I stand up to add my voice on the issue of violence that was highlighted in the Presidential Speech. The President said a very good statement especially on what can be done to develop the country. He said that people should stop violence. However, we realise from what has been happening, it is more as if people from ZANU PF are not respecting what the President said especially as their leader. Violence has become more like a culture or tradition in Zimbabwe since 1980. I remember the time when ZAPU people were beaten up. This has been happening continuously up to a stage whereby ZANLA was not allowed to contest in any elections because they were the people who were causing violence.

Madam Speaker, I remember very well that during the Gukurahundi era, there was so much violence because people were allowed to cause violence, what we call impunity. People can do whatever they want and they are not arrested. We realise that even the policemen and soldiers are the ones who cause violence.

In 2000 during the land reform programme, people were beaten up. Reports were made to the police but the police did nothing to arrest those perpetrators. What we need to realise is that our Constitution was not followed and even the laws that have been put in place are not being followed. Of late, we have been crying over the rule of law but perpetrators of violence are not being arrested. We have come to a stage where we always talk about the damage that violence has caused to the country but there is nothing that has been done to stop that violence.

Madam Speaker, there is a time when the President said that he had degrees of violence. Some of the people are taking it from there that their party has degrees of violence and they are encouraged to do so. People are not listening to what the President is saying because people have been killing other people and they are not arrested. Policemen and soldiers are the causes of violence but they are not arrested.

MR. MUPUKUTA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. We have no quorum.

Bells rung.

Quorum formed.

+MR. S. KHUMALO: Mr. Speaker, I was saying the other issue of violence comes from a long way since the 1980s. I realize that those who were in power are the ones who are encouraging the issue of violence. I recall back in the years gone by, about two years back, Mr. Chihuri who is the Chief of the Police Force, highlighted that he is from ZANU PF but I wonder what kind of a professional is he since he is boasting about being a ZANU PF member. My question therefore is how does he expect his junior officers to perform their duties well. What it means therefore is that it is only the MDC members who are going to be arrested. What needs to happen therefore is to take note of the words that the President said. It is easy to talk but difficult to walk the talk. What we need to do is to arrest those who would have gone against the law regardless of the party they represent. We need to see people being arrested going back to the issues of Gukurahundi and land invasion. We need to see also those who were committing murder in 2008 being arrested. If this is put into practice, it will stop even those who still want to continue with violence.

Up until we put this into practice, we will remain singing the song of "Stop violence, stop violence" everyday. We need to see those who would have committed such crimes being arrested or put into death sentence. I am one of those who are against death sentence. What we need to do is to punish those who would have gone against the law in other ways that will make them feel the same pain that is felt by those they kill. We realise that there are people like Solomon Madzore who are still in prison and nothing is said about their case. We also realise those with clear evidence that they committed murder, they are easily released and they go out and continue with the same previous cases.

Mr. Speaker, I therefore urge this House that we try to bring back the rule of law so that those who would have gone against the law should be arrested, those who would have committed murder should be killed as well.

*MR. VARANDENI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. Violence is a culture of ZANU PF. When President Mugabe urges for non violence, no one listens to him because the old man has overstayed his welcome. People in ZANU PF now do as they please, the guardians in ZANU PF are guardians of sins. Because they know that if they are to leave ZANU PF, they will be arrested. I tell the truth and I will shame the devil. As hon. members said, it is shameful for us as hon. members to behave in an undignified manner. Before my tenure as an MP, I was a councillor since 1981. I never thought that I will become an MP. I used to hold Parliament in the highest esteembut I now know that Parliament is filled with some brainless peopleI used to think that professors are knowledgeable people, but when you look at the so called professors you will be ashamed to refer to them as professors. It is shameful to hear that a person was murdered at a meeting.

I fought in the war together with Hon. Masaiti, she is a proper war collaborator, so, when you hear her giving a narration of the war, give her, her due respect. Hon. Masaiti was a 'man' during the war. When I conduct an introspection and see that if only we had known that we were fighting for an individual, my heart bleeds. On the 12th June, 2008, I was severely assaulted, I was in the South Med and you would see a person like Hon. Kachepa. We grew up fighting as we were heading cattle, we also grew up battering our wives and feel sorry but today you hear that an hon. member ganged up people to assault someone.

MR. BHASIKITI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker the member is putting on tennis shoes and the attire is not allowed in Parliament. 
MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Bhasikiti surely there is no point of order. The matter you are raising has nothing to do with this debate and I therefore rule you out of order.

*MR. VARANDENI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I want to tell Hon. Bhasikiti why I wear tennis shoes, I was severely assaulted by ZANU PF, as a result, I cannot wear proper shoes. It hurts me when I recall the murder of Magura, it reminds me of the way I was severely assaulted, the murder of Chiminya and the murders of several others being perpetrated by the former ruling party. We have seen it all and there is nothing you can tell us. I have earlier on alluded to Hon. Masaiti as an example. You can never tell me anything about ZANU PF because we are the ones who fought the war, I have a war veteran in my home area whom I recruited as a chairperson then, I always tell him that when he is no longer of use, ZANU PF will dump him in the dust bin. I personally experienced it, hence I left ZANU PF. I decided not to go to the war and I remained behind with Masaiti.

We are misdirecting ourselves by praising evil things, this country is not for one person, we shall all die and there will be a new generation. But today we are told that this country belongs to one person. We voted thrice in this country, this country is big enough for all of us. I wanted to speak when this House was still full of ZANU PF members. The likes of Hon. Bhasikiti know that once they leave ZANU PF they will be arrested, they all know it. This all comes from the President, who is not firm enough like Hon. Tsvangirai who when he makes an utterance at Harvest House, you will depart Harvest House defecating your trousers.

MR. BHASIKITI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I was elected on a popular peaceful vote and to his evidence he can confirm with his colleagues Hon. Chitando - and the rest of the hon. members from MDC Gutu but in my Constituency is the most peaceful one, so, as for the Member to allege that Hon. Bhasikiti fears that he has committed violence it is a blatant lie and he should withdraw.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order honourable, maybe I missed your articulation in Shona, my Shona is not a detailed one - my appreciation of it but I did not hear him saying directly Hon. Bhasikiti but that some of us here are afraid of change. If the hon. Member was direct to say Hon. Bhasikiti you did this, you are here, you can always respond.

MR. BHASIKITI: I have already debated….

MR. SPEAKER: I am not exchanging words with you, I am merely advising you. Hon. member from making direct reference to issues that you may not substantiate, I will ask you to continue with your debate but refrain from making such references.

*MR. VARANDENI: Mr. Speaker, we appreciate that when they are under siege they raise numerous frivolous point of orders. We will not err because we know the rules of Parliament. The crux of the matter is that if we all knew that this country is ours and we should hold free and fair elections. It was quite an embarrassment when Pillay was here, you are pushing for elections and yet you are the ones being defeated day in, day out. Why do you want them? You want to go back to the boxing ring when you are being beaten every day. All you want is to murder people, so that is what is hurting us. Honestly, at a rally Hon. Kachepa and Hon. Katsande - one day I talked to Hon. Katsande and her voice made me conclude that she cannot be the ideal mudzimai in her constituency. You know it is embarrassing for the world to know that there is an MP who murdered someone in Zimbabwe because we are the MPs. You will exonerate yourself as did Hon. Bhasikiti but word will have gone around that MPs are murderers.

So in our country what we ask for is that the President and our Prime Minister should continue condemning violence. If our President Morgan Tsvangirai hears of people condemning violence from Harvest House, then he will know that members are now mature. You do not leave that place castigating such an issue. That is what is happening in ZANU PF such that you find that when they engage in violence they do it to the maximum.

I remember when I grew up, my father was a polygamist and had 11 wives. We were 54 children and I was number 23. When our father was still active, I want you to know that even Masaiti is always saying her father was a polygamist. When my father asked how we had lost the cattle, you would know that there was trouble but when the younger wives came, they would leave the cattle to stray into the fields. They would say what did you want the child to do? It is better that you go and bring them back and the wife would go, is that not true? That is what is happening with President Mugabe, no one will listen to him no matter how he speaks. They will always say those are his words. What we ask for is, we do not know how JOMIC was set up. If it is the ZRP, they are all ZANU PF and training ZANU PF.

I want to end my speech by saying that we have been hurt and time has been short for us to debate this issue. So, tomorrow we are going to urge those who are going to debate, to add what we have left out and to speak out that murder is bad. Thank you Madam Speaker.

THE MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th June, 2012.

On the motion of THE MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, the House adjourned at Twenty-Nine Minutes past Five o'clock p.m.

Last modified on Wednesday, 27 November 2013 06:32
BLOG COMMENTS POWERED BY DISQUS
National Assembly Hansard Vol. 38 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD - 5 JUNE 2012 VOL. 38 NO. 36