You are here:Home>Senate Hansard>SENATE HANSARD 12 JUNE 2019 Vol 28 no 50

SENATE HANSARD 12 JUNE 2019 Vol 28 no 50

Download attachments:

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 12th June, 2019

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p. m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

MOTION

REPORT OF THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY’S BILATERAL VISIT TO THE SHURA ADVISORY COUNCIL IN DOHA

          First Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Speaker of National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda’s Bilateral Visit to the Shura Advisory Council, Doha, Qatar, 30th March to 4th April, 2019.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI:  Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the mover and the seconder of this motion and those that managed to take this visit.  It is pleasing that as Zimbabwe, we have bilateral relations with other countries.  This is where we explore other ideas of doing our businesses as Zimbabwe is open for business.  It is also an eye opener to those who managed to go there because as they have brought this debate in Parliament, it means that what they learnt in that country will be spread all over the country by the Members who are seated here.  It is a good thing. 

          Mr. President, in this report, it is not surprising because the country also underwent sanctions and they reported it here and that they are still struggling.  It is an important thing for us as Zimbabweans to hear from other sister countries who have gone through the same problem that we are facing in Zimbabwe.  Mr. President, I am saying to the Zimbabweans, let us not lose hope because one day we will get there.  These sanctions will be a thing of the past – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] - 

          The President of Qatar elaborated on his Parliament and how they are functioning as they are looking at the human capital; the human capital in education mostly.  This is a good idea because they are saying that they have already assisted over a million girl child and their wish is to surpass what they have already achieved.  This also encourages us as Zimbabweans that we should look forward even though things are difficult, we have to look after the girl children and we should always encourage the girl child to go to school, under what circumstances the girl child has to go to school. 

          The President of Qatar also highlighted the issue of infrastructure on health.  Mr. President, if you look at our own country, we have done a lot on the health sector but we have not reached our target because we still have some areas where our people have to travel for more than 20 kilometers to get to a the hospital.  Looking at women who are pregnant, for them to travel those long distances becomes another burden to them because they are not supposed to travel long distances.  Also looking at the issue of people living with HIV/AIDS, you find that they will end up absconding from going to collect their medication because of these long distances.  So, we still have a lot to be done and we have to see it that we encourage our Members that if ever the budget permits, we have to look at those areas which have got that problem of long distances to shorten those long distances by constructing more health facilities, especially in the rural areas as well as in the resettlement areas.

          Mr. President, also as they were sharing ideas with our own Hon. Speaker, he elaborated on the issue of education as well and said that they were focusing mostly on sciences as on STEM, of which they are looking at technology and enquiring about engineering schools but they have a hindrance of having sufficient funds.  It is now the duty of us all as we go for the budget to priorities our items where we have greater need so that whenever time comes for the budget, we have to discuss and also lobby for more budgets on areas which we see that they make our country grow.  Mr. President, with these few words, I would like to thank you. 

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion on the journey on which the Speaker of Parliament went to Qatar.  I am very grateful for the delegation which accompanied him and we know that as a country, we benefit a lot.  What we need to do is to take some of those ideas and put them into our context so that we can survive because if we gather some ideas from other countries we will also know what is happening in that country. 

Members of Parliament are not voted into power like what we do in this country but they are appointed.  What happens in most cases is that the candidates who are elected – there is a criteria in electing people as those learned and those who have property.  We know the way they choose the Members qualification depends on the rules and their constitution.  We know that their country was suffering from illegal sanctions which were imposed on them because they wanted to be independent and not have anybody interfering in their affairs. 

In the Zimbabwean Parliament, we hold general elections and we have separate parties contesting.  Therefore, I am calling upon Zimbabweans to follow other ideas which we would gather from other countries so that whenever we have problems in our country, let us be patriotic.  Let us work hard for our country and what I know is that we can only have development in the country because when we are united, we will overcome all the problems.  United we stand and divided we fall.  I remember sometime last week that there was a country which had sanctions imposed on them and this is Cuba.  The sanctions were imposed because they were said that they support the Venezuelan President yet as far as we know, Cuba is one of those countries with highly educated people including doctors.  Some of the doctors have come to this country to help us.

I am saying, this is a lesson we should gather from those people who have been in those problems regardless of the way we are elected – they are appointed but the truth of the matter is that we need to be united for the development of the country.  With those few words, I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to. 

Debate to resume: Thursday, 13th June, 2019

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE

VISITORS IN THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE’S GALLERY

THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to acknowledge the presence of Members of the Zimbabwe Children’s Parliament in the President of the Senate’s Gallery.  You are most welcome. [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -

MOTION

REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE AFREA CONFERENCE ON MONITORING AND EVALUATION HELD IN ABIDJAN

          Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the AfrEA Conference on Monitoring and Evaluation held in Abidjan, Cote d’Ivoire.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. CHIEF MATHUPULA:  Thank you very much Mr. President and thank you to the House at large for the opportunity to speak on this very important motion. The motion in question was brought by Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane to the African Association Conference for Monitoring and Evaluation which was held in Cote d’Ivoire from the 11th to the 15th March, 2019.  Allow me also Mr. President, to welcome the Child Parliamentarians who are present in the august House today.

          Monitoring and evaluation Mr. President, what is it?  Let us first take it down to its most basic level.  Monitoring is a continuous analysis of the steps, interventions and programmes which have been put in place to reach a particular goal; to ask ourselves how we are doing what we are doing.  Let me just relate it to a school which has a feeding project.  We have to ask ourselves how many children are we feeding; how much money are we taking to feed those children and how much help are we having to feed those children?  Are we reaching the goal that we want to reach?  So, it is a continuous monitoring of the action to achieve the goal.

          What is evaluation?  This is the periodic check on whether the programme is meeting its objectives.  So maybe after three months, we sit down then evaluate whether we are meeting the objectives; are the children being fed and the basic goal of may be malnutrition, are there less children going to the clinic complaining about malnutrition?  We usually think of monitoring and evaluation as something up there but most of us witness it in our day to day lives.  I have seen it at the end of the year when most people look back at the year and they evaluate how their year has gone.  You find some people putting new year’s resolutions.  That is the goals for the year ahead that may be I want to stop this or I want to spend less money maybe on alcohol, smoking or whatever. That is where we go wrong. We do not monitor what we wanted to do and some by June will have dropped their goals for the year and are continuing only to realise in December that those things they used to complain about are back when they do their next evaluation. So, on a personal level that is where we can start. What have I done or what am I doing in my life as I monitor how things are going.

Yesterday in the newspaper, I saw a musician or footballer who was very popular during his time but now he was crying saying I wish I could have someone to assist me and my family, we are in deep poverty and are bankrupt. What is that? A lack of evaluation as the person was in his heydays, lack of evaluation on his life and the impact of the afterlife when he has left the spotlight. It is not only musicians, but everyone else who lives in the spotlight, soccer stars, musicians and even us as Members of Parliament when we fail to evaluate and monitor what we are doing to add value to ourselves personally. It impacts us after we have left the offices which are so comfortable.

On a community level, what have we done? This is important for us as parliamentarians or as leaders. What can we do? Do we set goals for our communities so that time and time again, at the end of the year, we can monitor the goals that we have been given? The CDF monies and all the other monies that come through for the assistance of our communities need proper monitoring and evaluation as time goes on so that they can reach the greater community with the greatest good.

After this being said at community level, I want to come back to the conference which was held in Cote d’Ivoire because it looked at monitoring and evaluation at a national level. The conference which was held in Cote d’Ivoire spelt out the importance of having the goal which is to be reached. I am happy Mr. President, that as Zimbabwe we have a clear goal which is the vision 2030 where we are talking about achieving a middle economy by the year 2030. I am happy as well that there are goals on the side which are speaking to that.

The Transitional Stabilisation Programme (TSP) which was set up by the Minister of Finance helps us to reach our goal. These side goals help us to monitor and evaluate ourselves as we work towards the goal. The programme which was set up, TSP was also further divided into phases. The first phase is running from October, 2018 to October, 2020. The next phase runs from 2020 to 2025, and next one from 2025 to 2030. At the end, these structures help us then in evaluation and monitoring as we can attack and see time and time again how we are doing as we try and reach our goals. The goals set are clear and they need everyone to come together so that the nation at large can realise something from their goals.

Political will – it was noted also in their report that we would need political will in order for us to reach our goals. Who is doing the ME? Government needs to ask that? Are these people capacitated? Government departments like ZIMSTAT need to be capacitated in order to reach their goals. Those at Government level, including the different ministries in charge of goals - including the seventeen (17) SDGs that need to be capacitated to understand how to monitor and ensure efficiency as we monitor our work towards our national vision.

Parliamentarians, how do they play a role in oversight, monitoring and evaluation? In the oversight role of parliamentarians Mr. President, there comes a great burden upon them for they have a great work to do in monitoring and evaluation but capacity building is needed so that they can understand the vision that the Government will have set up. Thus, as they do their oversight they can then speak to the different things which are being done and properly evaluate whether we are reaching the goal that needs to be met. So, capacity building is important at Government level, parliamentarians and even for different members of society, including the youth, women in Parliament and leadership and everyone else.

Mr. President, I am very happy to have been given this opportunity to speak to this motion, but let me conclude with a quote by a Spanish painter Pablo Picasso. He says’ “Our goals can only be reached through the vehicle of a clear plan in which we must all fervently believe, and upon which we must vigorously act and work on. There is no other route to success.” Mr. President, I thank you.

#HON. SEN. MKHWEBU:   Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to deliberate on the motion that was moved during the AfrEA Conference held in Cote d’Ivoire on the 15th March, 2019 which highlighted mainly on monitoring and evaluation. Mr. President, the monitoring and evaluation of Government’s projects in the country is very critical, taking from the discussions held during the motion. I take an example that Zimbabwe is doing a budget where it is bringing in issues that are highlighting the issue that this money is supposed to be used to build dams. The challenges are that we are not making critical follow ups on the projects.

Mr. President, it is critical to make sure that Government’s projects in the country are given the importance that they require because Ministers and Members of Parliament in these provinces need to really make follows ups to make sure that they evaluate the job that would have been carried out. It is very critical Mr. President. There are also countries that are way ahead in doing monitoring and evaluation. These include Benin, Rwanda, Uganda and South Africa. These are the countries that are way ahead in making sure that they are monitoring the projects that are implemented by the Governments of their countries.

Mr. President, when making follow up on the issue that we have a critical role especially for us as countries that are lagging behind so that we get an eye opener from this motion and make sure that we move together and do not lag behind and make sure we make follow ups on monitoring and evaluation of all the projects that will have been implemented in the country. We really want to make sure that we move together with other countries. With these few words, I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on this motion moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane.  The Hon Senators were giving a feedback on a conference held in Cote d’Ivoire from the 11th to the 15th March, 2019 and was attended by 36 countries.  These countries made a resolution that they would work together for the sake of progress of Africa. 

As families, we have school going children who graduate from primary to secondary schools, we need to evaluate the progress of our children.  Where there is progress, it is okay.  Where there is a problem we need to talk to the teacher or headmaster so that we look for ways of assisting this child.  In some schools, learners are graded according to their capabilities such as form one green or yellow. 

The conference also discussed developments in Zimbabwe such as Presidential inputs and scholarships.  Such programmes need to be monitored and evaluated so that we identify genuine beneficiaries.  I will give examples of counties like Rwanda, Benin and South Africa which have successfully carried out the monitoring and evaluation programme.  Rwanda is a good example of progress because in the past, it was devastated by genocide but recovered to be one of the most developing countries in Africa.

Countries which include Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Malawi which were affected by the destructive Cyclone Idai should hold conferences where they share ideas on their experiences.  They should also set up contingency plans to deal with such inclement weather.  People in targeted areas should receive early warning signs and where possible moved to safer areas.

Zimbabwe should also move with the times especially in budgeting where Parliament should be given sufficient funds to enable members to attend such developmental and constructive conferences which will benefit the country. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on the importance of monitoring and evaluation of our projects at district level, provincial level and national level.  When I read this motion, I concluded that these progressive countries which include South Africa and Rwanda do not entertain corruption.  It is important that projects are monitored right from the beginning. At the moment, Zimbabwe is faced with starvation and Government is distributing food.  This exercise should be implemented by officers who are trustworthy and honest; the countries that I have mentioned, South Africa and Rwanda do not entertain corruption.

  People believe that their country is more important than individuals; this is in contrast to Zimbabwe where we have selfish drivers on our roads that is when you start realising that we have lost our morals.  If you give others the duty to follow up, looking at how we are doing our work, that is very difficult.  It is also important to have evaluation of our project after a certain period; for example, three months to see whether we have achieved what we have agreed to do.  If the results are not what was expected, we should look at the reasons why the project did not go well.  If we have these checks and balances in place, it will help us as we go.     

 I also hope that when we visit these other countries and we gain some knowledge, we should implement what we have observed in other countries.  We also hope that fellow parliamentarians will critically analyse the information which has been gathered by the visiting delegation.  Travelling is expensive, as a result we need to implement what we will have learnt in other countries, otherwise we will be wasting resources, if we just travel to other countries and shelve the knowledge gathered. 

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA:  Thank you Mr. President.  I want to make my contribution on the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane.   The issue of monitoring and evaluation has been defined by previous speakers and is a very important subject.  Monitoring and evaluation means we have to assess the progress on developmental projects or any assignment we are undertaking.  Are we using our resources wisely for the benefit of the nation?  We have some people who are very industrious and work hard in their fields in agriculture.  Surprisingly, they only harvest just about two bags in a very big field.  Such a scenario shows that it is very necessary to make a monitoring and evaluation exercise to check why there is such a low harvest for such hardworking farmers.  Are you getting return on investment?  In my Constituency in Charumbira, some seven years ago, there was a certain small bridge where we had some contractor who came and amassed building material on site.  People were happy because they thought they would be employed on the construction project.  We asked these workers to identify the contractor, they did not know.  All they knew was that it was a man from Harare.  What is obtaining at the moment is that this is an on and off project which is never completed.  It is a very small bridge which I may compare to this table which is before us where we place our Mace.  There is no progress in such projects because there is no monitoring and evaluation.  The problem with such a scenario is that such a bridge, which was supposed to be completed in three years and was supposed to cost $50 thousand to $60 thousand, ended up costing $2 million.

I will also talk about roads which are poorly constructed in our constituencies where two km are constructed per year because there is no monitoring and evaluation.  At one time, Government wanted to construct tollgates in the various areas in the country.  In Masvingo, building material was put at a selected site but there was no progress on the construction site.  As a result, there was a fatal accident on that site and the tollgate was never constructed at that place.  Building material including bricks stayed on that site for close to two years.  There was no monitoring and evaluation. 

 I will give another example regarding the National Budget which was put at $4 billion and was passed by Parliament.  To date, nobody can tell you how that budget has been implemented because there is no monitoring and evaluation.  Members of Parliament who passed that budget do not make a monitoring and evaluation process on the budget.  My advice is when the Budget has been passed by Parliament, it should be monitored and evaluated, checking on the stated projects which were meant to be done by that budget.  I am glad the Minister of State for Manicaland is here where there have been so many contributions towards the destruction caused by Cyclone Idai.  A monitoring and evaluation exercise should be undertaken to check on whether the projects such as construction of schools, roads and houses have been done following the pledges made.  We should also monitor whether the said pledges were fulfilled or they were just empty promises. 

In the case of schools, we should check whether they were constructed and the learners who were to be sponsored were really sponsored.  We may notice that the beneficiaries only benefited from the initial funds such as when they were in Form 3 but could not be funded for Form 4. 

Monitoring and Evaluation is very essential. Even in our own daily lives we need to evaluate and monitor our progress.  Staff members of Parliament with institutional memory may remember that we had value for money audits in the past.  This is an equivalent of monitoring and evaluation.  When a budget has been passed, there should be follow up on its implementation so that we have value for money audit.  People do not just talk of spending money on a particular project but it has to be stated how much money was used and for what purpose.  It is not acceptable that people talk about construction of clinics, roads and schools without mentioning the amount used.  We need itemised billing.  In some instances, construction of a clinic is completed but 20 years elapse before the clinic is put to use.  So resources were wasted because there will be no nurses and no drugs.

On Monday, I went to a funeral in Binga at the Chief’s residence.  We passed through a Bulawayo irrigation project where there are five very long centre pivots but there is nothing on the ground.  Irrigation pipes were once erected but they became rusty and rotten because they were not used.  That is where value for money audit should be done.  Are the deployed resources bringing out any output production that is expected?  We even highlighted that we will inform the responsible authority. 

Parliament is doing monitoring and evaluation on CDF where 50 000 or 80 000 is allocated to provinces.  When this process was done, for example we found out that one Member of Parliament had transferred the money to his eco-cash account.  He passed away and no one knew the pin code to this account.  There was no project on the ground.  About five Members had not done anything but the money had been disbursed.

As Parliament, are we monitoring the budget that we approve in ministries to see if the money is being used accordingly?

I will now speak about devolution.  Who monitors and evaluates?  Devolution is good because people on the ground will be responsible.  Members of all the political parties are supporting devolution hence the topic is good.  The Minister of Local Government and National Housing – Hon. July Moyo has been going around Masvingo advocating for devolution.  Everyone is supporting this and the Ministry is pushing the programme.  People will be more responsible and accountable in accomplishing their projects.  There will be total empowerment since all aspects will be on finger tips.

The onus of monitoring and evaluation is for Parliament because Parliament plays the oversight role according to the Constitution.  As we debate this motion, we should know that this is bestowed on you because you evaluate the whole public sector in terms of projects.  We have to ask ourselves if we are being effective on Government programmes so that our nation will develop. As parliamentarians, we should play our oversight role seriously.

Lastly, the debate that we are engaging on should be monitored and evaluated.  What are they bringing?  Are we just debating and there is nothing that comes out in the end or are we just sitting to add numbers.  Who is going to hear what I am debating?  According to the rules, after we have debated, the Minister responsible should come and respond to the motion and inform us what he is going to do about it.  Is there someone who makes a follow up of our debates?  I thank you.

HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MUZENDA:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 13th June, 2019.

MOTION

FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS ON THE ZIMBABWE HUMAN RIGHTS ANNUAL REPORT FOR THE YEAR ENDED DECEMBER 2017

          Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Human Rights on the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Annual Report.

          Question again proposed.

          *HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to support this motion which was brought by Hon. Sen. Chidawu and his seconder. I want to refer to Section 4.4 where he says promotion of human rights. Before I get there, when I think of rights... 

          THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, I am advised that the Hon. Sen. debated on this motion.

          HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I did not debate.

          THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am told that the Hon. Sen. debated on the 13th of February this year.

          HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President.

          THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Thursday, 13th June, 2019.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE 44TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF SADC PARLIAMNETARY FORUM

          Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the delegation to the 44th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Thursday, 13th June, 2019.

          On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI), the House adjourned at Twenty-Five Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.

 

Senate Hansard SENATE HANSARD 12 JUNE 2019 Vol 28 no 50