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SENATE HANSARD 16 MAY 2017 VOL 26 NO 55

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PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Tuesday, 16th May, 2017

The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE

ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

          THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:   I have to inform the House that all members of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary caucus are advised that the annual general meeting has been rescheduled following its failure to take off on the 5th May, 2017 due to lack of quorum.  The meeting will be held tomorrow, Wednesday, 17th May, 2017 in the Senate Chamber at 0900hrs.  Members are requested to bring their documents to enable fruitful deliberations. 

INVITATION TO A CATHOLIC CHURCH SERVICE

          THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I also wish to inform the House that there will be a Catholic Service tomorrow, Wednesday, the 17th May, 2017 at 1200hrs in the Senate Chamber.  All members who are Catholics and those who are not Catholics are invited.

SECOND READING

MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A, 2016]

          First Order read:  Second Reading: Movable Property Security Interests Bill (H.B. 7A, 2016).

          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam President, I rise to present the Movable Property Security Interests Bill [H.B. 7A, 2016], for consideration by this august House.  The main principle objective of this Bill is to provide a framework within which movable property may be used as collateral or security for purposes of obtaining loans upon reasonable terms from the financial services sector, that is from the commercial banks.

          Madam President, in order to allow a wider demography of our citizens access to bank loans at reasonable interest rates and in equal measure, to provide players in the financial sector the additional comfort offered by security, we have considered it fit to introduce this Bill to spare enterprise development and at the same time to promote stability in the financial services sector.

          Principally, Madam President, the initiative entails the establishment of a collateral registry of movable property such as machinery, automobiles, inventory and account receivables.  The registry will serve as a central source of information and will facilitate commerce, industry and other economic activities by enabling individuals and business to utilise their movable assets as collateral for credit, thereby injecting vitally important liquidity into their respective enterprises.  The initiative promotes the availability of credit by significantly diminishing the risk assumed by lenders as they may bond movable assets as collateral and have immediately available recourse where a borrower defaults in loan repayment. 

          As alluded to, in the 2016 National Budget Statement, access to finance is one of the most important components for sustainable business and economic growth in any economy in the world.

          However, Madam President, the majority of Zimbabweans are not able to access credit from financial institutions due to lack of acceptable security in the form of immovable property such as houses or factories which are traditionally preferred by formal lending institutions.  This Bill seeks to specifically address this gap.

          Madam President, the collateral registry system is aimed at achieving the following:

·       providing a mechanism for efficient registration of security interests in movable property and realisation of such interest in the event of a default of payment by borrowers; 

·       it seeks to provide the creation and perfection of movable security interests;

·       providing a platform to inform parties and the public about the existence of a security interest in movable property and

·       the collateral registry will be established as a department of the Reserve Bank headed by a Registrar appointed by the Governor of the Central Bank.

Madam President, with respect to enabling legislative framework, currently, the legal frame dealing with secured transactions is fragmented and needs to be consolidated and modernised in line with international best practices.  The current laws governing this subject are in five pieces of legislation namely:

·       The Deeds Registries Act,

·       The Hire Registries Act,

·       The Bills of Exchange Act,

·       The Grain Marketing Act, and

·       The Agricultural Finance Act, among others.

This system is inefficient, costly and lacks the transparency required to support the growth of secured lending transactions.

This Bill will provide for a holistic approach towards the utilisation of movable assets as collateral by harmonising the entire relevant Acts.  In this regard, even the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act and the Banking Act will be amended for the financial sector to achieve the intended objective of this Bill.

          Creation of security interest by execution of security agreement

          Madam President, the Collateral Registry will register the security interest provided the debtor has the rights in the movable asset.  Such assets may include any type of movable assets such as machinery, automobiles, inventory, livestock and account receivables.

          Collateral Registry Fees

          The operations of the Collateral Registry would be funded through levying of cost recovery fees and charges to be specified in the regulations.  The fees may be charged for registration, amendment and cancellation of notices.

          Consumer Protection

          In order to protect the borrower from inaccurate information being registered in the Collateral Registry, the Bill will ensure that any information that is registered would be confirmed and authorised by the borrower.

          Access of Information to the Public

          Madam President, currently lenders have limited information regarding the borrowers.  For example, if a lender is considering a loan to a small or medium-size enterprise, one of the biggest deterrents is the possibility that the borrower has already given its assets as collateral to another lender which evolves into a dispute involving lenders concerning whose debt is superior to the other.

          The Bill will therefore create a reliable and affordable public registration system to allow lenders and the public to see which assets have been pledged as collateral by the borrower which will assist the lenders in making a more informed business decision when advancing a loan. 

          Benefits of a Collateral Registry

          The expected benefits of a Collateral Registry are as follows:

1.    Promoting financial inclusion since most economic agents including SMEs, women, youths and other under-banked groups currently experience challenges in accessing financial services due to lack of immovable property often required for collateral purposes;

2.    Increased access to credit through reducing the risk of credit;

3.    Improving competition in the financial sector by enabling both banks and non-bank financial institutions to offer secured loans; and

4.    Reducing cost of credit through reduced interest rates as economic units move from informal to formal financing.

Experiences in Other Countries

          Madam President, many countries regionally and internationally have established collateral registries over the last few decades.  These include Liberia, Ghana, Malawi, Kenya, Lesotho, Rwanda, China, Peru, Mexico and Ukraine, among many others.

          Studies show that collateral registries have substantial economic impact.  A study conducted in 2013 found that in countries that have introduced collateral registries, access to bank finance increased by 8% and the terms increased by six months whilst interest rates declined by 3% per annum on average.

          Conclusion

In conclusion Madam President, the proposed Collateral Registry will bring substantial benefits to the economy including enhancement of the participation of MSMEs in the mainstream financial sector through the growth of secured lending in Zimbabwe. 

In view of the anticipated benefits from the establishment of the Collateral Registry, I hereby table the Bill to introduce the new legislation for the establishment of a Collateral Registry before this august House for consideration.  I therefore move that the Movable Property Security Interests Bill be now read for the second time.  I thank you Madam President.

HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA:  Thank you Madam President.  I rise to very briefly make some comments on this Bill which in my view is a very good Bill and is a very important and progressive development.  I actually think this is what is called thinking outside the box.  When we have got challenges and problems facing us, more often than not we tend to look at the conventional and the usual ways out fof solutions.  We tend to look at history and see how other people have done it and so on.  There is nothing wrong with that but we should also be brave, bold to look at other ways of doing things, avoid being conventional and doing things the way we have traditionally done it for ages and ages. 

Therefore, the way this Bill has been crafted, the framework which has been introduced by the Minister this afternoon, to me is a very progressive way of broadening the production base of this economy and our capacity as a nation to generate wealth and export products, which is what we need badly at this point in time. 

We are mourning about the lack of capacity to produce and about the high cost of production because the majority of our people do not have access to capital.  Up to now, the majority of the people who have had access to capital are those with title because our financial institutions traditionally have always insisted on collateral security mostly in the form of immovable property.  How many of us have got immovable property?  Actually, the majority of Zimbabweans do not have immovable property.  That is the stark reality of our situation. 

Therefore, the coming of this Bill is addressing that very big gap which has existed in this country, which in my view the Minister has been bold enough to accept that we have been lacking but above all, to address so that we broaden our means of production.  I would like to commend the Minister in that this is going to see many of our people such as youths, women and SMEs.  All these people, as a result of this particular Bill are going to be able to access loans and capital because they will be able to use their movable assets to access capital. 

What this entails is that if this is carried out successfully; I actually like the features which the Minister has described which will ensure that those movable assets are going to be vetted and ensure that they are bona fide movable assets.  Once we do that, we will certainly see growth in terms of production and our economy. We should also be able to produce more so that we export and create wealth, which is what we need to do at the present moment; to create wealth, so as to bring in more finances and resources into this country.  I thank you Madam President.

          HON. SEN. B SIBANDA:  I rise to make a few comments on the Bill.  The first comment is that I applaud and will always do, a determination to give opportunity without necessarily handing out.  The second thing is to enquire from the Minister about our banking institutions  which are traditionally known to be conservative in terms of loan behaviour.  How much consultation and buy-in has been undertaken or given by the banks?  Thirdly, how are we going to prevent behind the scenes disposal of assets that have been registered in the collateral register?  Finally, I am at sea as to the level of liquidity in the country to be able to support what could be substantial demand for lending at this point in time in the country.  I thank you Madam President.

          *HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA:  This Bill that has been brought in by Hon. Chinamasa is a good thing for Zimbabwe.  We know how difficult it was for women to get loans from the bank.  Many-a-time they were told to bring their husbands even if they have houses.  It was very difficult but now we see that women who are doing their projects are getting a chance to get into the mainstream economy. This will enable Government to also collect revenue from the women.  Our women are going to be happy and this Bill and the women’s bank are both welcome.  The women’s bank is going to help a lot of women who engage in projects to uplift their lives and the lives of their families.

 We would like to thank the Minister so much because I think the Government will be helped as well, especially in these times that we are in where the country is running backed by an informal economy.  If there is a chance that women can get loans using this registry, it will help us so much. We want to thank the Minister for such a brilliant idea and realising that if you leave women behind, we will not progress as a nation.

          *HON. SEN. CHIMHINI:  I would like to find out if it is possible that a person who wants to get a loan and knows that Sen Chimhini has money and wants to borrow that money to use as implied by the Minister but the person refuses to give me money because they will say we do not agree with what the Minister has said.  Can the Minister explain to us whether there is a law that will help us to get loans from those people who refuse to give out loans so that we do not become happy, yet the law will be difficult to implement.

HON. SEN. MOHADI:  I also rise to support this Bill.  It has been a long wait for such a Bill to be brought to this House.  As women, we were the most privileged because women are known to be the poor of the poorest and could not afford collateral in the form of money.  Now as women, we are very happy.  As a woman from Matabeleland South, where there are goats and cattle, we are now going to use those as collateral.  It is a great achievement to use our livestock as collateral.  Minister, I applaud you for coming up with this Bill.  Without much ado Madam President, I thank you.

+HON. SEN. MKWEBU:  I want to applaud the Minister for this very important Bill which he has brought to the House.  I support the Bill and we are looking forward to it because all along only the urbanites with properties in town were being favoured in terms of loans.  I support this Bill because a lot of people in the rural areas, people with livestock, who are farmers can use what they have as security to access loans from the financial sectors so as to be able to source fertilizers.  Minister, I applaud you for this Bill which is very broad and catering for all Zimbabweans so that they can access loans from the banks.  Thank you for your vision.

+HON. SEN. KHUMALO:  I did not know that I would be speaking.  A lot of people who spoke before me aired their views concerning women.  Thank you Hon. Minister Chinamasa for bringing this Bill.  We remember women, particularly widows and the disabled, some of them even have cars as well as livestock but they could not do anything.  I was requested by some other women last week to request that they be allowed to pay for their houses cheaply after the death of their husbands.  The Minister should also help so that they can get collateral for their houses.  Now there is a new way for them to get collateral and that means a lot to me.  Even people in rural areas can now be considered for collateral because they have their livestock which they will bring as collateral so as to access loans to expand their farming operations. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I want to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill to this House. All these years especially in the rural areas we were facing challenges that you could have your beautiful house at the township but the house was considered as valueless because you could not use it as collateral. You could own a lot of cattle but they were not accepted because they were not immovable property, but now I think if this Bill is passed, it will be easy for us in the rural areas.

          I also want to add that what is left now is for our banks that were used to the old system that if you did not have immovable property you were not credit worthy. These banks are going to be compelled by this law to accept the wealth that I have at my homestead or in my rural areas so that I will be able to get a loan to start a business. It has been said before that if we do that, it will be easy for us to start our businesses which will enable us to export. Our economy is agro based and if we are able to get loans, we will be able to farm and export our products so that our economy will grow. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I rise to thank the Minister for bringing in this important Bill. I want clarification on that fact that our country is full of informal businesses, does this Bill include furniture items such as sofas to be used as collateral? Most informal traders have houses that have a lot of furniture but when they want to borrow, they are denied credit. Like what the Chairperson of the Women’s Caucus has said, surely if you include furniture as collateral, many women will benefit and the informal sector will be happy. On everything that you have said concerning this Bill, I want to commend you very much. I thank you.

          *HON SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President. A lot of things that I wanted to say have been said by other Hon. Senators but let me say that I am thankful for this Bill which has been brought in by our Minister. On behalf of the women and youth who are not represented here, I want to thank you Minister for bringing this Bill. A long time ago there were pawn shops where you could take your furniture as collateral for a loan but now with this Bill you have laid out the rules. Here in the urban areas, if you go to Hopley suburb, you find that there are a lot of houses that have been built but the residents do not have title deeds. Yes, they are building huge houses but they do not have title deeds to borrow money from the banks. So, we are really thankful for this Bill.

          We are also grateful for the idea that banks can give out money to those people with brilliant and innovative ideas. The absence of such a facility was hampering a lot of progress in this country. A lot of people have ideas and they have the strength to work but for them to get the capital was a problem. We really appreciate the introduction of this Bill because for it to happen it shows that people have faith in what you want to do.

          Minister, is there a ceiling on the money that one can borrow or it varies with the things that you have. The issue of implementation has been touched by the previous speakers and I want to thank Hon. Senators who have contributed because we have a lot of wealth in our country, especially in the rural areas. Many people have goats, sheep, cattle and even quail birds but they did not know how to use them. Some people were just looking at it as inheritance for their children but these assets will now have value placed on them, especially in light of what Hon. Dokora was saying that there is a lot of wealth out there which can be used by people for trading. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. MAKORE: I want to thank the Minister for the Bill that you have brought in this House. It is good for all the people as what the other speakers have said. What has excited me is that this Bill will give value to domestic animals which are not immovable. My question is that there comes a time when a person declares those movable assets and then a drought occurs and animals die. In the event of a disaster, what would happen to such an arrangement because for immovable property to be guaranteed, it was because a house was built on a fixed place.  Can the Minister explain to us what would happen when someone declares a movable asset and natural disaster happens?

          +HON. SEN. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President for the opportunity that you have given to me so that I can make my comments on the Bill that has been brought by Minister of Finance and Economic Development. This Bill is quite good. Hon. Senators have said that when women want to access loans they are asked a lot of questions whether they have title deeds or whether they are married as a way of denying them access to loans even though they have such things. I have title deeds but I have more access to a loan with these title deeds because I am not quite sure whether I will be able to pay their loan with my title deeds. With this Bill, we thank you Minister. It will be easy for us to approach the bank with our properties. They will not fail to give you the loan if you declare your things. I thank you very much Minister. In Matabeleland South, I do not think you will not fail to access a loan from the banks, particularly Agribank helps us. We have livestock and mines and others have such things. I do not see that we will fail to access loans. I am representing women from Matabeleland South. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Madam President and how are you today? I want to thank the Minister for the Bill that he brought in. A lot has been said about the Bill which is very important and exciting. I stood up to greet the Minister, how are you Minister, work very hard with the Bill that you have brought into this House which is very exciting and which is very important in Zimbabwe. On behalf of the poor men like me who were having problems in getting loans when they are able to engage in businesses, we want to thank you.

My question is if it is goats’, cattle, the loan that you will be getting, how long will that loan be repaid? You should also encourage us Zimbabweans that if we are given the loans, we should repay them instead of lying that the animals have been killed by natural disasters.

HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUBANE: Thank you Madam President. Mine is to thank the Minister. It is a pro-poor Bill. If you are considered to be somebody in society, one of those things that people consider is the immovable property, houses. As alluded to before by Hon. General Nyambuya, most of the people in this country do not have houses. So, this Bill will come in a long way in assisting the less privileged members of the society.

Secondly, I would want to thank the Minister. I think you will take the burden from the people, off the people that have been abused by the so called loan sharks, somachonisa because they could not access banks because of the demands that were there. I would want to find out Hon. Minister, you know that every good thing should be fully explained. The interest rate and the repayment period, we could be happy that we will be able to trade our movable property, but as long as we do not know the interest and the period, we will not know how to go about it.

Finally Minister, I think it is important that there is security of this movable property. It is of no use for me to go to the bank to borrow and I fail to repay the loan. If you look at the number of stories we read in the Press of people who are failing to service their loans, it is alarming. I want to find out from the Minister what measures you have in the Bill to address that? Thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: I want to thank the Minister for bringing in this Bill. Firstly, I would like to thank the Minister because he took time looking at the lives of people in Zimbabwe and he found it befitting to help the poor. My question is, if it takes place, we want to go and get loans and you are a single parent, corruption should not be heard of. Those who are financing first of all look at faces. We want them to help women as women. My question is that I have taken the loan, have a house, children and then nature takes its course and I die. What would happen to my family? Are there ways of easing the lives of my children because death can knock at anytime? So, is there a way to deal with this if death strikes?

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Madam President and I want to begin by thanking all Hon. Senators for the support that they are giving to this Bill and also for their contribution. Let me say from the outset that what we are doing is an attempt to change the mindsets of our people and it will not be achieved overnight. The mindset that we are changing is for our people to realise that when they have got these movable assets like sheep and goats, they cannot go out and say I am poor.

A person will have 20 goats and he still has the audacity to tell others that he is a poor person and that he should be able to be dependent on the handouts given by the State. That is the mindset that we want to change. They must realise that they have got assets. Often I am very amused Madam President when in Makoni District, there are a lot of tobacco farmers. You ask one of them what he does and the person will say I am not employed, and yet he is a tobacco farmer delivering tobacco at the Auction Floors.

So, that is the mindset that we want to change. All of us do not think that we can earn a livelihood when working for yourselves and even in terms of our surveys, we exclude all those people who are taking tobacco to the Auction Floors. We tend to regard them as unemployed. It is not correct. Those who are in artisanal mining, we take them as unemployed because we find them having sand all over their bodies and we end up saying they are not employed and yet they are probably richer than some of us. That is the mindset that I think this Bill seeks to change.

We also want people to understand that if you are in the business of rearing cattle, sheep and goats, it is a business and those assets need to be traded. You must never fall into a situation where you cannot pay your children’s school fees and yet you have got 50 head of cattle or you have got 30 goats and you do not pay for your child’s school fees because you do not realise that you can do business from trading in these assets. So, it is very important. I want to emphasise lastly before I respond to specific contributions that all this is because of the structural shift that is happening in our economy.

Personally, I regard it as a good thing that has happened to this country. The collapse of the formal sector had to come because there were only a few people in the formal sector. Let us take for example in the agricultural sector. We were talking about 4 000 farmers. There is no way an economy can grow and expand when a vital productive asset like land is held by one or two people. So, it is important that we realise that because we moved from that ownership of land and now we have the A1 farmers.  We distributed that land to about 350 000 households, you can also multiply the number of people who are dependent on that piece of land.  Now, that change caused disruption in our productive system.  So, initially there was a fall of production, everyone was laughing at us. 

However, I cannot see how we could have gone from that skilled land ownership to the current one where it is now owned by the majority of our people, without a transition.  There has to be a transition and what we are talking about here Madam President is how to manage that transition from yesterday to today and tomorrow.  I am happy to say that we analyse these situations and try to come up with policies that relate to the reality of our situation.  We are not doing textbook things; we are relating it to the people.  Of course, as we do so, it will take time even for the people themselves to understand that this is an opportunity for them. 

Right now our economy is highly informalised.  I always give the statistics that in 1999 or thereabout, there were 2 million workers in the formal sector, by the time we reached 2005, because of the revolution in the Land Reform programme, the formal sector collapsed and the 2 million formal workers dwindled to half a million and could be just about less.  It is our responsibility to now move that economy from the informal and back to the formal again.  That is the transition which we are now travelling.  I am very happy with the progress that we are making so far.  It is a process and not an event, it cannot happen overnight.

Let me become specific to the contributions.  Hon. Sen. Gen. Nyambuya, thank you very much for supporting it, I agree with you entirely.  You said that we are thinking outside the box, not quite.  You know the people are already ahead of us, this is already happening on the ground.  Let me also say that when we talk about borrowing, you could actually be the lender to your brother.  It is very important.  It is not just the financial institutions we must look at as the lending institutions or the lenders.  Anyone of us can be a lender to all of us.  So, we must look at it in that light and we are now providing a legal framework so that you can lend in the comfort that there is security, in the event that things may go wrong.

We also need to change the mindset of our people in the sense that, when you borrow, things can go wrong.  That is the risk of doing business.  Hon. Senators, now, we do not want a situation where when things go wrong, when someone’s cow is being taken away, you then come and say it is not politically unacceptable, it is a contradiction in terms – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – When you borrow and have given security, you may not be able to pay for various reasons.  Some of the risks, you insure against but some you may not have insured or anticipated.  There are those other risks and causes of default where the person has just been fraudulent, those are different.

 However, in the majority of cases, I think that we need to change the mindset of the person who is borrowing and also us who are neighbours to say, when it happens, you must take it as it should happen.  If you default, someone must come and claim.  That is the contract, it is not new, but we always want to borrow and we do not want to see people suffer who are now being taken to court or something for failure to pay.  So, you are quite right thinking outside the box but I also want to say people are more advanced in terms of lending and borrowing.  What we are only doing here is providing a framework under which they can do so with the security that this will create.

There is no way we can create wealth and I am supporting Hon. Sen. Gen. Nyambuya’s statement here.  You cannot create wealth using own resources.  You cannot raise yourselves using your own boot straps. You can yes, but the journey maybe too long to a point where you never reach where you want to go until you are an old man.  So those who have initiatives cannot grow businesses without borrowing.

THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Old man or woman – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –

HON. CHINAMASA: Thank you very much Madam President.  What I want to emphasise for both men and women, if we are to grow our businesses, our living standards – it could be building a house or even buying a cow, we cannot avoid always borrowing.  What is important is; for what purpose are you using the money you are borrowing?  Will it come back?  That is what the lender wants to know also.  If I give you money, what activity are you doing or undertaking which gives me comfort that it is generating cash flows which can pay back what I am lending to you.  That is the discussion.  I want to say to Hon. Sen. Gen. Nyambuya, thank you very much for your support.  This will help to broaden the productive base which is something that is very important to grow the economy.  It will also increase access to capital by a majority of our people. 

At the moment, our biggest challenge in the economy, especially with SMEs, with the informal sector, is access to capital.  When I go round, I can vouch that the people now have general skills to undertake their activities.  The skill is there to an extent of some managerial skills also and technology.  However, the thing they lack most is access to capital and that is what we are trying to assist. 

Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda, yes the banking institutions are conservative, but when I talk about mindsets, I am talking not only about the mindsets of us individuals but of institutions also.  The way I see it is that – and this is what we tell the banking institutions, if they do not face up to the reality of our situation, they will be out of business sooner or later.  This is because the business of a lending institution is to lend money.  If you are not lending, you get broke.  You make money from the interest you charge when lending to people.  If you do not lend, and as it is, they may say, we only lend to established firms but the base of established firms is reduced.  So, in the end you cannot avoid lending to people who are plying their trade in the informal sector. 

Madam President, what I am aware of is that, most financial institutions or banks now have a macro-financing window to address and attend to small economic players. Clearly, yes they are conservative but we have to shift their mindsets and we do so – I know many of them have visited and sent teams to India, Bangladesh, essentially to understand how big commercial entities can lend to small people.  I am happy to say that there is now a growing base of macro-financial institutions in the country.  I think in total you have something like 160 or so macro-financial lending institutions.  I think only five of them are deposit taking, the rest cannot take deposits.  They can only come with their capital and lend out.   I am happy to say that this is already taking place.  It increases the level of liquidity in the economy. 

          How do you prevent disposal – these are issues I do not have an answer to right now but we will learn from the experiences of other countries. They will be dealt with and addressed in the regulations.  What happens if a cow which is collateral dies – I think those are issues that are addressed through insurance and I am sure that insurance schemes will also come handy.  You can see the ripple effect it will have in the entire economy - the insurance companies will also come in, I am sure and so on.  However, all these issues will be dealt with in the regulations. 

          Hon. Sen. Mustvangwa, thank you very much for your support to the Bill, in particular, we are talking about women, youth, economic players who are in the informal sector.  Clearly, we cannot leave women behind and in this case they are very much in the forefront of informal businesses.  I am going to commission a study, Madam President, to do a survey of the informal sector.  We have got a regional company which is specialized in conducting those surveys.  We are doing a survey of the informal sector; we want to know how many they are. We also want to know what specific activities they are doing, the environment, and the location - are they under a tree or in some accommodation. 

Now, on the basis of information that we will gather, we will be able to form informed decisions which can be the basis of our policy formulation, so we will do this undertaking.  We also want to know how many women, how many are the youth, the elderly, and the disabled, are business people in the informal sector, if I may make reference to a contribution made later.  All that information will be very useful to formulate our policies.

          Hon. Sen. B. Sibanda – how much consultations have taken place in the banking institutions, in fact the banking institutions are supporting this Bill to the yield for different reasons I suppose.  Their main interest in this Bill is the creation of a Collateral Registry.  The problem that we have identified as being the cause of many non-performing loans are people who hop from one banking institution to another borrowing without any intention to pay back.  This is because there was no framework under which one bank could go to another and say who has borrowed for you.  That information was treated as confidential.

          Now, Collateral Registry will basically tell us not just people who are borrowing, small like we are talking about but they will have a register of all borrowers and a banking institution can access that information before it considers a loan to any person who comes to borrow.  Because of the Collateral Registry, it will mean that the bank at least is now better placed to avoid people who will give rise to bad non-performing loans especially those who are just fraudsters in a way who walk from one bank to another to borrow. This is to combine it or to complement the Credit Reference Bureau which as you know, we passed in this august House through the Banking Amendment Bill which is now law.  So, we are trying to tighten up on credit, with a view basically to avoid the bad apples and I think we will get there. 

          Hon. Sen. Chimhini, thank you very much for your support.   You raised a question - can we force banks to lend? No, we cannot.  Like I mentioned, banks’ main business is to lend but they want to lend to good borrowers who will use the money for the purpose for which it is borrowed and who will be able to pay.  That is the relationship you will have between yourself and the bank.  We cannot say for instance, Senator Chimhini, go to Barclays; and say you must lend to Senator Chimhini, who wants to build a house or buy cattle.  If we do that it will not work. In fact, it may well end up that Senator Chimhini will end up borrowing just to go and marry other women.  Muzukuru ndakukutsvinyira manje. You do not borrow to go and pay lobola; a woman is not a tractor.

          Hon. Sen. Mohadi, thank you very much for the support and like you have mentioned, we are including livestock, that includes cattle, goats and sheep.  What it means basically Madam President, is that the inclusion of livestock will entail a system of identification. We cannot just say a cow; it means we are talking about branding. Especially with branding, we are now talking about cattle tags so that the beast will be clearly identified. With respect to what happens to those who breach, we will certainly come up with regulations that will criminalise disposal without the consent of the lender.

          I know branding is an exercise that has already been started by the Ministry of Agriculture. It is still at its infancy stage but the police and Ministry of Agriculture have been encouraging branding cattle so as to minimize theft and also to make it easier to trace any stray animals. It becomes easier if in fact it is branded and it has cattle tags.

          Hon. Sen. Mkwebu, thank you very much for your support.  You are very right that this is basically targeting livestock mainly cattle, goats and sheep. If a person has got his cattle and wants to borrow fertilizer inputs, it should be made possible and generally as you know in our Presidential Input Scheme, we are just talking about two bags - one bag AN, one bag compound D and 10kg seed. Now, the total of that is something like maybe US$65 to US$70. If we have farmers who have two or three beasts to borrow that, they will know that they can pay the money back.  That is basically what we are just thinking about.  Let us leverage the asset that we have to create more wealth. That is what is behind this Bill.

          Hon. Sen. Khumalo, thank you very much for again supporting the Bill. You raised the issue about people who are disabled that, will they also benefit – clearly, yes.  I see no problem and this is why we need to have that survey so that we are able to know what numbers we are talking about for sound policy formulation. 

Hon. Sen. Chipanga, thank you very much for supporting the Bill.  If I may take this opportunity Madam President, to explain what we are seeking to do.  For example, in the horticulture we are going to come up with a command horticulture, not just for local consumption but also for exports.  We have the advantage here in that we are a non-GMO country, non-GMO food has very good natural taste.  GMO food has no taste and worldwide there is a scramble to buy non-GMO food across the board.  So, we should exploit that situation in order to basically increase our exports in horticulture and any agricultural products.  It is very key and for that of course, we need irrigation to boost our production. 

I am happy to say that we will soon be announcing command irrigation, not just for communal, A1, A2, institutions such as prisons which has land, ARDA and so on.  We want to push in a very strong way irrigation development.  We should never be in a situation where we cry when there is drought.  This past season has shown that God loves us.  If we do not take advantage of the gifts that we receive from the Almighty, it is not His problem.  It is the problem of His people – [HON. SENATORS:  Hear, hear.] –

Hon. Sen. Timveos, thank you very much.  Of course, the collateral will include furniture but I would respectfully ask that you do not give your bed.  Use the refrigerators, dining room suites, lounge suites as collateral but please do not offer your beds.  However, it covers everything.  You can actually offer the bed, this is just family advice. 

Hon. Sen. Tawengwa, you want to know whether there is a ceiling.  No, it is really a relationship between you and the lender and whether he is satisfied with the collateral that you are offering.  If the lender is satisfied for whatever amount, a deal will be struck.  You made reference to the Pinyoro and so on.  What we are doing here is to provide a legal framework that is transparent to both the lender, the borrower and the public, which Pinyoro was not.  So, it is quite an improvement from previous systems. 

The issue you raise about title deeds is a matter that we are also worrying about.  It is amazing how wealthy our people are.  In fact, we have a company from the United States which was interested in mortgage lending.  They were saying, it looks like all the houses, cars and furniture that you own are for cash, there is no mortgage.  There must be an opportunity to leverage those assets to create more wealth.  That we are not doing and that we must do.  So, we must and we are going to look at why people do have houses and not have title deeds.  We are going to interrogate that so that we can see where we can play a facilitative role for people to have title deeds.  Once we have got title deeds, we can leverage almost ten times the value of those assets and that is what will create more wealth for this country. 

Hon. Sen. Makore, I think I have already answered you when you asked what happens when a sheep, goat or cow used as collateral dies.  Clearly, it is a matter that I think should be handled through insurance in my view. 

Hon. Sen. Ndhlovu, thank you very much for supporting the Bill.  With respect, you raised an issue about title deeds - I have already mentioned. If you go to any town today and I always give the example of a town in my constituency Rusape, there is massive expansion in residential housing.  All those stands have no title deeds – [AN HON. SENATOR:  Ah.] – Yes, there are no title deeds; it is just an agreement of sale from the local authority and they are given conditions that you must put some permanent structure within a given timeframe.  That is all, there are no title deeds.  What I think is important is to convert those assets to create more wealth, to leverage them as collateral.  That is something that we are looking at to see how this can be done or where we can play a facilitative role. 

Hon. Sen. Machingaifa, thank you very much for supporting the Bill.  I thank you and especially that this Bill will certainly help the poor.  I do not want to call them the poor because if they have got assets they are not poor.  This is a term we use very loosely.  If you have got 15 goats, how can we say we are poor?  We know the goats give calves almost twice a year and sometimes they can produce twins or triplets.  How can you be called poor?  I get your point.  Clearly, it is supporting that class of people whom all along were marginalised.  We are trying to lift them from that situation. 

Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungubane, thank you very much for supporting this Bill and I take the point that hopefully with the coming of this Bill and this law, it will do away with loan sharks.  However, you cannot always prevent it, it is always very difficult.  Sometimes people do not want the hassle of filling any forms, going to the registry and they always try to choose the easy way.  The easy way generally is to the loan sharks.  Nothing is written down but the loan shark just enforces through his muscle.  I am sure we are all aware of that.  Generally, people end up being exploited in the process.

Hon. Sen. Chimanikire, thank you for supporting the Bill.  I want to conclude Madam President by saying the major focus of this Bill is to change the mindset of our people so that they accept that they have got assets and that they treat those assets in a business-like manner so as to create more wealth for the country.  With that response, I now move that the Bill be now read for a second time.  I thank you.

Motion put and agreed to. 

          Bill read a second time.

          Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.

COMMITTEE STAGE

MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A, 2016]

          House in Committee.

          Clauses 1 to 13 put agreed to.

          First and Second Schedules put and agreed to.

          House resumed.

          Bill reported without amendments.

          Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.

THIRD READING

MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B. 7A, 2016]

          THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move that the Bill be read the third time.

Motion put and agreed to.

Bill read the third time.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move that Order of the Day, Number 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS

          Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday 23th May, 2017.

MOTION

STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT

          Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.

                   Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. BUKA: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday 17th May, 2017.

MOTION

FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3

Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to debate the motion on Sustainable Development Goal No. 3. We had a tour of some hospitals as well as having people from Ministry of Health and Child Care and from the National Nutrition as well as from the Pharmaceutical Industry. My major interest is on the issues which were raised - in particular which relate to diseases such as cancer, diabetics and high blood pressure. These diseases are usually called non communicable diseases because we cannot pass them to the next person.

          These diseases are caused generally by poor feeding practices of individuals. So, we would like to encourage ourselves as we are here that we should eat properly. We were told that the Government was putting money aside to help in combating these diseases. I am saying while the Government is helping us, can we also help the Government by eating properly. I know some people will say I am obese or I am overweight and I do not have these diseases. This is because maybe genetically, as we are going to discuss it later as you heard our previous speaker last week stating that sometimes the problems we have as children affect us as adults. Maybe you were a lucky person and you never had the problems and you are not susceptible to these diseases.

However, those who eat properly delay in getting cancer and once it is discovered that you have the cancer, if you eat properly, it may slow down the moving of the cancer in your body. So, eating properly can help us in many ways. It was recommended that some of these diseases come because we like sugar, salt and alcohol. Those are the three major foods that increase our susceptibility to diseases.

Therefore, we are requesting you as Members of Parliament that wherever you go, discuss these issues so that you combat these diseases. At the present moment, the discussions also said can we help in reducing obesity among children because when these children get obese while they are young, as they grow old, they are going to get these diseases earlier than usual. We discussed the issue of wasting of children. We were happy to learn that the stunting and wasting in Zimbabwe has been reduced. We used to have 30% of our children under five years being stunted.

However, now there has been some improvement and we have 27% of the children who are stunted. What can we do to improve the stunting? Remember these reports are given so that we become helpers of the Government in the reduction of these problems. So, we can improve stunting by ensuring that when we go to our villages or our constituencies, we talk about a balanced diet. What is a balanced diet? It is being able to put nzungu or peanut butter into starchy foods.

It is also being able to add a variety of other foods, the pulses into our foods so that the children eat a balanced diet and that you reduce the bulk by adding fats into the food of the children.  Can we all go and tell our constituents that we need just to make ibhizha which has beans and peanut butter. This is going to reduce our stunting so that we become a better nation. We also discussed the issue of the agriculturalist, apart from the programme on the reduction of these problems.

So, the growing of different foods in the areas where we are working, can we encourage our communities to ensure that there are butternuts, pumpkins, carrots as well as vegetables which are added to our food as well as our children’s food so that we reduce the diseases which we have. The eating of pulses help in different ways.  It reduces the absorption of cholesterol, cholesterol leads to high blood pressure and so on.  Therefore, if we eat some of these foods which we used to eat previously - I have heard many people now saying if they eat beans, they have a problem.  I am not refusing that you may have a problem, but substitute the beans with something else.  It is us who need to be healthy and be examples when we go out there to be seen eating properly.

We also had Mr. Kembo from the National Nutrition Council who discussed with us the issue of 1000 days.  Yes, the Chief discussed 1000 days before but they are not only for the child but to reduce the maternal deaths and poor health of mothers during delivery or after delivery.  They need to eat properly within those 1000 days.  It is us here who should go and speak in our constituencies and say, those women and girls who are planning to get married should eat properly.  This will help so that the child they deliver when they conceive will be up to date and alright – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – The mother will not be anaemic if she would have been eating properly.  She will not bleed a lot when giving birth.  So it is our wives and daughters whom we should go and protect there in the villages and our constituencies.  This is what the programme which we attended entailed.

I would also like to bring the issue of the National Pharmaceutical Company (Natpharm).  Natpharm is a pharmaceutical organisation which is like a storeroom of the medicines for the country.  I was happy about the fact that they try to reach everywhere but because of the roads which are not in good condition, they leave some of the areas.  However, in my concern, I do not think we need to let them be a monopoly.  Can we suggest that other pharmaceutical firms be there so that there is competition.  If there is no competition, things are expensive and nobody will buy from anywhere else and so they are going to sell at expensive prices. 

People are finding medicine very expensive when you visit the pharmacies because we only have one Natpharm.  So, can we try and encourage other pharmaceuticals to be involved so that medicine is not expensive because if I enjoy a monopoly, I will sell at whatever price and you have no choice except to buy from me.

There is the issue of breastfeeding.  I talked about the 1000 days.  As Zimbabweans, I sometimes feel we should be proud because we pioneered these things before they were internationally taken, the issue of exclusive breast feeding.  Why exclusive breastfeeding?  Exclusive breastfeeding means; no water, porridge or anything until a child is six months.  Why?  This is because the milk from the mother has all the nutrients which the child needs. 

However, some people will say, but this one cries a lot.  If that child is always sucking the breast, that child will not cry too much, go and try it – [Laughter.] – and make sure that your children, friends and grand children exclusively breastfeed.  If a child is always on the breast, they will not cry, they will be satisfied because crying means it is unsatisfied.  Continue breastfeeding.

The children who are continuously breastfed do not get sick.  I bet you go and observe and record, a child who is breastfed never gets sick.  This is because the breast milk contains immunity to defend the child.  We say, the mother should continue breastfeeding until the child is two years, why?  The immunity in the milk defends the child against diarrhoea and other sicknesses. That is why we say feed for 1000 days.  The birthday of the child at two years amounts to 1000 days.  So, this is 1000 days.

After six months, I am saying, introduce the other foods, but continue breastfeeding so that this child does not suffer from diarrhoea.  A child who is breastfed does not generally suffer from diarrhoea.  Even if the child is still crawling - you know they say the child is teething and will suffer from diarrhoea, a breastfed child will not have serious diarroea.  Go and try it with your relatives and grandchildren at home and encourage them to breastfeed.  Therefore, this is what was very interesting for me in our meeting.

Finally, I would like to say each one of us here, go and be a champion of nutrition in your area.  You tell the adults about consuming little salt and sugar and avoiding alcohol.  The children should be breastfed exclusively for six months and then add a variety of other foods.  For those who are likely to have cancer, consume butternuts, the foods which are rich in carotene.  A variety of fruits and vegetables will prevent cancer.  There it is, I give it to you for free.  Thank you Mr. President.

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Sen. Khumalo.  I know that in the Committee they call her the champion of nutrition, which she is and we welcome that.

HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.

MOTION

ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA

          Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.

MOTION

FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE

Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS on HIV and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe.

          Question again proposed.

           HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.

MOTION

ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS TO PROTECT DOMESTIC ANIMALS

          Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on stray dogs and other domestic animals.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. SEN. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2017.

          THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Just as a reminder, I think Madam President of the Senate, has said this before, those who have motions on the Order Paper, which have been there for quite some time, we urge you if possible, to wind and withdraw them tomorrow.

          On the motion of  HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Three minutes past Four o’clock p.m.

Senate Hansard SENATE HANSARD 16 MAY 2017 VOL 26 NO 55