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SENATE HANSARD - 17 JULY 2012 VOL. 21 NO. 40

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Tuesday, 17th July, 2012.

The Senate met at Half-past Two O'clock p.m.

 

PRAYERS

(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM PRESIDENT

BILLS RECEIVED FROM THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

MADAM PRESIDENT: I have to inform the Senate that, I have received the following Bills from the House of Assembly;

a) The Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Bill [H.B. 2, 2011].

b) Older Persons Bill [H.B. 1, 2011].

SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES

MADAM PRESIDENT: May I remind hon. senators to put your cellphones on silent.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE SENATE

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 18 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of. I would like to have the opportunity to engage the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) over the Adverse Reports which were issued against several By-Laws and hopefully, we will be in a position to resume debate on these items tomorrow.

SENATOR CHITAKA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to know whether the suggested standing over is with the agreement of the Chairman of the PLC who happens to be here today. Otherwise, I would be asking the minister, in what capacity he would want to engage the Chairperson of the PLC over the Adverse Reports. If not in agreement, I will go further and ask the minister what capacity or authority does he have to seek the engagement of the PLC Chairperson?

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: Maybe, I should firstly dispose of the last question; in what capacity I am engaging the Chairperson of the PLC. I am sure the hon. member and the august Senate is aware that I am the Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs and that I have the mandate to advise Government on all legal matters, whether they are referring or relating to any ministry, the responsibility of my ministry is to offer legal advice. It is in this context and that understanding that I am engaging the Chairperson of the Parliamentary Legal Committee because I may have a different view to the views expressed in the opinions. We want to find an understanding and a common ground before we come to argue this matter before us.As to the other question on whether the Chairperson of the PLC is in agreement, I think he can speak for himself.

MR. ZHANDA: Thank you Madam President. Indeed, we have reached a common understanding that we engage before we wash dirty linen in public. Thank you.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PLIGHT OF TEACHERS

Nineteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the plight of teachers.

Question again proposed.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: Madam Chair, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

MADAM PRESIDENT: You addressed me as Madam Chair, I am not the Chair.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: My apologies Madam President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.

SENATOR CHITAKA: On a point of order Madam President, I am a bit confused…

MADAM PRESIDENT: Order! Sit down!

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18th July, 2012.

MOTION

ALLEGED EXISTENCE OF GHOST WORKERS WITHIN THE PUBLIC SERVICE PAYROLL

TwentiethOrder read: Adjourned debate on motion on the alleged existence of ghost workers.

Question again proposed.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18th July, 2012.

MOTION

FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE ACCESS TO CLEAN WATER IN MASVINGO AND BULAWAYO

Twenty First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the Access to Clean Water in Masvingo and Bulawayo.

Question again proposed.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18th July, 2012.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 5TH INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S CONFERENCE ON WOMEN AND TECHNOLOGY, HELD IN BANGALORE, INDIA

Twenty Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 5th International Women's Conference on Women and Technology, held in Bangalore, India.

Question again proposed.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18th July, 2012.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM PRESIDENT

CONCLUSION OF MOTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER

MADAM PRESIDENT: Before I go any further, may I please remind hon. senators who have motions on the Order Paper to please conclude them this week as you are aware that this particular session is coming to an end this week. You would not want your good work to go to waste so, you have to move for either adoption or for removal so we come to its logical conclusion according to our Standing Rules and Orders. May I just find out whether there are any senators who intended to conclude their motion today and my I please be favoured with what number that motion is on today's Order Paper.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE SENATE

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: Madam President, we had postponed Order of the Day, Numbers 19 and 22, if the Senate could reconsider those Orders now. Also if I could move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 24, 25, 27, 28 and 29 be stood over until Orders of the Day, Numbers 19, 22, 23 and 26 have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PLIGHT OF TEACHERS

Nineteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the plight of teachers.

Question again proposed.

SENATOR CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam President for affording me this opportunity to make my contribution on this debate. I would like to thank hon. senators who contributed on this motion regarding the payment of teachers especially focusing on the fact that the Government should make moves to improve the salaries and working conditions of teachers, especially when we look at the amount of work these teachers are responsible for in their work. Again, when we look at people who are educated amongst us like the hon. Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs, Senator Chinamasa, they are products of the teaching profession. I thank all the people who contributed including the Hon. Chief Ngungubane who debated on this issue. I am very grateful for your contributions. We know that teachers require to be properly remunerated and I plead with this august Senate so that those of us who did not get the chance to make contributions on this debate, let us adopt this motion so that it can be adopted and be part of the nations which will follow and be implemented so that not only teachers but civil servants are properly remunerated according to their output. Thank you Madam President.

Motion put and adopted.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 5TH INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S CONFERENCE ON WOMEN AND TECHNOLOGY, HELD IN BANGALORE, INDIA.

Twenty Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 5th International Women's Conference on Women and Technology, held in Bangalore, India.

Question again proposed.

*SENATOR CHIMBUDZI: Madam President, I would like to thank the members who contributed to this motion on how we travelled to India. We also thank Hon. Senator Manyeruke for the contribution that she did on this motion. I would also want to thank the hon. members for the contributions they made on this debate about our trip to India and what we did. I also want to thank you, Hon. Madam President because you showed that you are really a genuinely appointed leader because you went with us despite your status. You treated us equally. The delegation included Senator Muchihwa. We were very much elated by your leadership because you showed that you are a true leader and representing the country. Because of that and all the contributions made to this House, I beg this House to adopt this motion.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE 59TH SESSION OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AND THE 34TH CONFERENCE OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY UNION (APU) HELD IN KHARTOUM (SUDAN)

Twenty Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 59th Session of the Executive Committee and the 34th Conference of the African Parliamentary Union (APU), which was held in Khartoum (Sudan) on the 27th November to 1st December 2011.

SENATOR K. DUBE: Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Senator Mumvuri for seconding my motion. I would like to thank other members who participated in the debate. For that I would like to report that we shall be going to Rwanda by the end of the year. We thank you very much for participating. I would like to move that the motion be adopted.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS ON THE STATE OF PRISONS AND PRISONERS IN ZIMBABWE.

Twenty Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Human Rights on the State of Prisons and Prisoners in Zimbabwe.

Question again proposed.

SENATOR MAKUNDE: Thank you Madam President for allowing me this opportunity just to discuss a bit, to add a few words on the motion moved by Senator Marava. This motion is very important. I even wonder where Senator Marava came across it. I want to thank him for bringing it to this Senate.

This Charter as you may read it; it is about entrenching a culture in Africa. A culture of regular…

SENATOR MARAVA: On a point of order, the hon. senator is referring to a different motion, motion 25.

MADAM PRESIDENT: This is a motion to do with the prisons.

SENATOR MAKUNDE: I was referring to a motion on African Charter on Democracy.

SENATOR MARAVA: I would like to thank you Madam President for the opportunity afforded. The motion was debated at length and I am very happy and I am sure the Committee on Human Rights is very happy as well. This was group work by myself and the Committee and we came up with the superb job that was thoroughly debated in here and we were very pleased. But Madam President, I now rise to wind up this motion on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on Human Rights on the State of Prisons and Prisoners in Zimbabwe.

Madam President, allow me to thank all the hon. senators because they all contributed, those who listened that was a contribution, those who debated that was a contribution and we enjoyed every moment of it. My Special thanks goes to some of the hon. senators, these include Hon. Chief Ngungubane, Chief Musarurwa, Senator Chimbudzi, Senator Chitaka, Senator Makore, Senator Manyeruke, Senator Mulotswa, Senator Muchenje, Senator Katyamaenza, they debated at length and I am very pleased that this was value addition.

I therefore, move for the adoption of the motion and at the same time seek leave of the House to withdraw the motion from the Order Paper.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE SENATE

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS: I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day, be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 25 has been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

AFRICAN CHARTER ON DEMOCRACY, ELECTIONS AND GOVERNANCE

Twenty Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Governance.

Question again proposed.

SENATOR MAKUNDE: Thank you Madam President. Firstly, I would like to thank Senator Marava for having brought this important motion to this Senate. This is all about the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Governance. As important as it is, I only wanted to air my views just a bit, but before I air my views, I want to give some few comments. This is a very important document and that it seeks all directions, it seeks peace and it also promotes free and fair elections, it also goes against the taking of power by force. I thought if we were going to discuss it at length, we were going to look at so many things. But before this thing could be politicized, I was going to suggest that this Senate refer to a particular ministry that will take this thing and coordinate it, with those that are already registered in the African Charter; so that when it is brought to this Senate, It would have been taken through all the levels where it has been overtaken by events. Some of the issues have been amended and so on. We do not know when or where this thing was made because we do not have any one coordinating between this Parliament and the countries that have signed this Charter. That was the only suggestion I was going to put Madam President, that whilst it is a very good thing, we need to have it polished and coordinated with those that have already signed the Charter and also to have an amended document as we discuss. Thank you.

SENATOR KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President, just to add a few words in support of the motion on the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and Governance. I think it is very important for us, looking at our history as Zimbabweans, to really take note of this statement and try to correct and improve ourselves. In terms of democracy, elections and governance, we have had some negative comments from within and outside societies, that is many other countries outside Zimbabwe have given comments about us on how we are running our democracy, elections and governances. So it is a challenge. Now that we are sitting in this august Senate, it is so important that we should actually put this thing into practice so that we can change our own image as Zimbabweans. We are faced with a question of democracy, we have been trying and fighting through our own means, we had negotiations that have been going on. We have formed our National Government of Unity (NGU) and we have been able to write our own constitution which is almost ready now. I think we should celebrate on those achievements so that we can foster and make sure we push and be able to establish our own democracy Africa as well as Zimbabwean. I think we need to be aware of that because we are faced with these challenges. As we move forward, let us aim to do the best, let us aim to be the best country in Africa in terms of practicing democracy. I think we all know what democracy is all about; we have had challenges so we must correct them.

We are also faced with an election, I think we can get some tips from Senator Chinamasa who can tell us when. The elections are quite near and this has been a challenge for a long time now. I think we know challenges that we have had in the elections. This African Charter that we are faced with gives us some guidelines. Let us stick to those guidelines, let us practice them, let us shame the world, let us shame those that have been criticising us that we are now grown up, mature, we can now work together and understand each other, we can plan together and effect changes that are favourable to us.

It talks of non-violence. I think we must all preach and be able to be in the newspapers, on the radios wherever we go we must talk about peace and non-violence. We must be able to encourage our own friends and supports that sometimes act on our behalf. We know that there are some youths that act on my behalf without being sent by me, other youths will act because I will have sent them. I think this Charter gives us that guideline and hint that we must be able to control this kind of situation and I am sure if we do that, we will be able, at the end of the day, to get a very positive image and people will admire us and people might even copy how best we would have carried our own elections. So I am sure the next election will be an example for Africa. I think the whole world will be ashamed because there will be no violence, it will be peaceful, people will campaign wherever they want to go, there will be interaction among political parties without intimidation or violence. I hope there will be no single blood that will be shed during election time because the Charter that we have gone through and the debating about this, I think we have all learnt. If you implement good democracy and good elections, it goes without saying that you would actually go into good governance because the good elections and democracy are the cornerstones of good governance. I am sure that will help us as Zimbabwe and I encourage that every Member who is here would stick to the African Charter so that no one would be found inciting and calling for violence, or leading into more violence thank you Madam President.

MADAM PRESIDENT: Thank you Senator Komichi, is there any further debate on this motion?

SENATOR CHITAKA: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the motion brought up by Senator Marava. I have a few pointers about the motion; the first is my worry, my worry that the African Union and its predecessor OAU, but in particular the African Union has been very prolific in producing a lot of these documents. Just looking at my pigeon hole alone, there are lots of these charters. While I commend the contents of this particular Charter on democracy, elections and governance, I still have a worry that the African Union seems to just have become a huge talk show producing massive volumes and volumes of documents, but on the implementation side very little seems to be happening. That is the concern I needed to highlight Madam President. We also have a problem where we adopt these Charters, and we have adopted quite a few similar Charters in the past, but it has been extremely difficult to domesticate them. I remember there was some protocol on elections drawn up by SADC. When we tried to domesticate it here, we had problems basically because definitions and perceptions of democracy differ from country to country. It also differs from political party to political party, from tribe to tribe. It really puts us into a problem where, unless and until we confront our unique situation in Zimbabwe as already alluded to by the previous speaker, we will be filing these documents one after another and if we go back five years from now, very little will have been done. So, I am urging the African Union, those who represent us in the African Union, as well as this Parliament that it is well to adopt these Charters and protocols. We must go back further and domesticate. The domestication must not be based on political expedience. We are writing a Constitution now which unfortunately, from the little that I have gathered, has become more of a document for political expedience rather than for posterity. I know it is very tempting especially when we have a system where we are whipped by our political parties for us to be able to debate objectively with the future and posterity in mind. So, when we come to issues like these which are universal, we should talk about building the basis for future generations, may be the whips should stay in the party offices and then we will be allowed to state honestly how this country should move forward. The rules of engagement say it is okay to talk about democracy, but if I talk to my sister or brother on the other side; what their perception on democracy is? What is good governance? We will differ because of our background and the political persuasion that we come from. Until we take off our political jackets and say right, look let us forget you are in this party or that party, let us just debate and built something that has no political color whatsoever. I am sure we will come up with really a true domesticated Bill or Act on democracy and good governance that is truly Zimbabwean and that addresses the needs of the future generations rather than to try and correct or to maintain certain advantages that one political party might have over the other. I may say keep the Charters coming, but sometime in the future we have to look each other in the face and say let us come up with something that is good for Zimbabwe not good for political parties. I thank you.

MADAM PRESIDENT: Thank you Senator Chitaka.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, URBAN AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 18th July, 2012.

On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, URBAN AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Three o'clock p.m.

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Senate Hansard Vol. 21 SENATE HANSARD - 17 JULY 2012 VOL. 21 NO. 40