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SENATE HANSARD - 17 JUNE 2009 VOL. 18 NO. 20

 

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday 17th June, 2009

The Senate met at Half-past Two o'clock p.m.

 

 

PRAYERS

(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM PRESIDENT

 

DEATH OF HON CHIEF BIDI

MADAM PRESIDENT: I sadly have to inform the Senate of the death of Hon. Chief Joseph Bidi on Thursday the 28th of May 2009. I invite all hon. senators to rise and observe a minute of silence in respect of the late hon. senator.

ZIMBABWE WOMEN PARLIAMENTARY

CAUCUS MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE MEETING

MADAM PRESIDENT: I also have to inform the Senate that the meeting between the Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus Management Committee, Chief Whips and their Deputies, with officials from the Women's University in Africa will now be held on Thursday 18th June 2009 at 0830 hrs in the Senate Chamber.

SENATE THEMATIC COMMITTEES

MADAM PRESIDENT: I further have to inform the Senate that the Standing Rules and Orders Committee approved the establishment of Thematic Committees for the Senate which shall be served by hon. Senators as follows:

HIV/AIDS THEMATIC COMMITTEE: Hon Chabuka, Hon Chimbudzi, Hon Chief Chitanga, Hon Dube G. T., Hon Dube J. Z., Hon Dube K., Hon Femai, Hon Hungwe, Hon Kabayanjiri, Hon Khumalo, Hon Mandava, Hon Manyeruke, Hon Mbambo, Hon Mohadi T. B, Hon Ncube S, Hon Chief Nebiri, Chief Ngungumbane, Hon Sakupwanya, Hon Sinampande.

Hon D. Khumalo to be the Chairperson.

GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE: Hon Chibagu, Hon Chief Chiduku, Hon Chitsa, Hon Dube J, Hon Gaule, Hon Jacob, Hon Komichi, Hon Katyamaenza, Hon Chief Mabika, Hon Chief Masendu, Hon Mabhiza, Hon Masaba, Hon Mlotshwa, Hon Mutingwende, Hon Chief Nembire, Hon Sakupwanya, Hon Chief Shana, Hon Sibanda A, Hon Sinampande.

Hon Chitsa to the Chairperson.

MILLENIUM DEVELOPMENT GOALS (MDGs): Hon Chibagu, Hon Chief Chisunga, Hon Chitaka, Hon Dete, Hon Chief Chitanga, Hon Chief Dandawa, Hon Dube J, Hon Dube K, Hon Hove, Hon Mandava, Hon Masaba, Hon Chief Masendu, Hon Mbambo, Hon Mlotshwa, Hon Chief Mtshane, Hon Mumvuri, Hon Chief Nebiri, Hon Chief Ngungumbane, Hon Chief Nyamukoho, Hon Rugara, Hon Chief Shana.

Hon Chief Mtshane to be the Chairperson.

PEACE AND SECURITY: Hon Chabuka, Hon Chando, Hon Chief Charumbira, Hon Chief Chiduku, Hon. Chimbudzi, Hon Chitaka, Hon Chief Dandawa, Hon Chief Dube G. T., Hon Chief Gampu Sthole, Hon Gaule, Hon Gava, Hon Gutu, Hon Jacob, Hon Makuyana, Hon Mohadi T. B., Hon Mudzingwa, Hon Mumvuri, Hon Chief Musarurwa, Hon Ncube S, Hon Ndlovu J, Hon Chief Ntabeni, Hon Rugara, Hon Sibanda A.

Hon Mumvuri to be the Chairperson.

 

INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT:

Hon. Chief Chisunga, Hon. Chief Dandawa, Hon. Dete, Hon. Chief Gampu Sithole, Hon. Gava, Hon. Hlalo, Hon. Kabayanjiri, Hon. Kombayi, Hon. Chief Mabika, Hon. Mabhiza, Hon. Makamure, Hon. Makhula, Hon. Makunde, Hon. Makuyana, Hon. Marava, Hon. Muchihwa, Hon. Mtingwende, Hon. Chief Musarurwa, Hon. Mutsvangwa, Hon. Chief Nyamukoho,

Hon. Mutsvangwa to be Chairperson

 

HUMAN RIGHTS: Hon. Chando, Hon. Chief Charumbira, Hon. Chief Chimombe, Hon. Chitsa, Hon. Gutu, Hon. Hove, Hon. Hungwe, Hon. Katyamaenza, Hon. Khumalo D, Hon. Makamure, Hon. Makhula, Hon. Manyeruke, Hon. Marava, Hon. Muchenje, Hon. Mudzingwa, Hon. Chief Mtshane, Hon. Mutsvangwa, Hon. Muzerengwa, Hon. Chief Ntabeni, Hon. Ndlovu J, Hon. Chief Nembire, Hon. Rimbi, Hon. Sakupwanya

Hon. Marava to be Chairperson

MOTION

RATIFICATION OF THE SADC PROTOCOL ON SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION

THE MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: I move the motion standing in my name on Science, Technology and Innovation for the SADC region. I must confess Madam President that it is very pleasant to do it in this hon. House that is so specious and more comfortable.

The SADC countries have committed themselves to closer cooperation in order to address the challenges of development throughout the region. It does so, primarily through the various sectors we are used to in our economy. At this particular time, the idea is to introduce the sector on Science and Technology and Innovation as one of the channels for contributing to the development.

It is recognised that this sector is cross-cutting , it appears in agriculture, health and it appears virtually in every other sector but is is recognised that throughout the world, many of the countries that are classified as developed are advanced in science and technology. Many of the countries that are classified as poor, with low incomes, they reflect a very low level of science and technology and innovation. It is therefore the intention to collaborate and see if we can raise the level of science and technology and innovation in member countries of SADC. The overall objective is to encourage cooperation and promote development, transfer and mastering of science and innovation in member states.

In particular, member countries will try to collaborate on aspects of harmonising science and technology and innovation policies so that activities taking place can be related to other member countries. There is a clear intention to pull the resources of science research technology, development and innovation throughout the region so that we share and avoid unnecessary problems. There is a clear intention so that we demystify science and technology as innovation by promoting public understanding and awareness and meaningful participation.

Madam President Wednesday afternoons is one of the most exciting times in the House of Assembly and I suspect it is the same here. Let me say Wednesday afternoon is the most boring for me. -[ HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- science and technology will enable members to be conscious of the relevance of those aspects of Research and Development that in fact make sense in the speedy transformations of various activities that we do. Next time when we adopt a budget on health, we want to be conscious of an assessment of what aspects of that budget is going towards the science and technology because that is what is critical in intensifying the process of development. Next time when you see a budget on education we want to be conscious of what aspect of it goes to R and D. The same relates to other sectors of the economy. We do not want to do all the work traditions without incorporating the innovations that are prevailing through science and technology. There will of course naturally be a desire to enrich the teaching and learning of science and the mathematics. It is our intention that much of it did not necessarily retain the old tradition of teaching these subjects but also focuses on making use of day teaching of those subjects as a channel of innovations and discoveries that might be happening in science and technology.

Madam President, member countries - their fundamental principles that these protocols will take effect for instance the recognition of the quality of members countries will be retained throughout. In no way do they have the intention to undermine one country in favour of another regardless of the levels of development. Throughout the member countries will be treated fairly and equal. Secondly, there will be a principle of peaceful application of aspects of science and technology. We have no intention of starting nuclear weapons in this part of the world. Our intention is simply to advance science and technology for the benefit of our people. So the issue of the application of science and technology will be highlighted.

Thirdly the aspect of ethics and safety requirements will also be borne in mind. The issue of cooperation will not entirely be left to the level of member countries within the region. It is intended also to open a door of collaboration through the Africans in the Diaspora. It is also hoped through such an intensity of resources that we are not able to employ in our region, we can embark on meaningful creation of centres of excellence and hope that such centres will be beneficial and an attraction for our people who are otherwise employed elsewhere in the developed world. I mentioned earlier on that we greatly recognised that the level of research and development applied in member country's economies is one measure of the extent to which the type of development tends to be higher or lower. Many of the developed countries have a budgetary contribution on Science and Technology, Research and Development beyond 4%. Other countries like Japan, actually have percentages much higher. It is the intention of our member countries to collaborate and make an effort to ensure that the aspect of Research and Development reaches a percentage of 1 of the Gross Domestic Product as from 2010.

Madam President, it is a major goal, which is target oriented to enable our membership to make an effort of ensuring that something of that nature can help all the countries. There are specific institutional mechanisms that are enshrined in these. First, the sector will be run and guided by a Sectoral and Ministerial Committee on Science and Technology where member countries will be represented by ministers responsible for the sector science and technology. Secondly, there will be a Committee on Senior Officials, some of whom will deal with technical aspects in our offices who will then monitor to what extent development of science and technology is fairly shared within the region. Thirdly the intention of establishing within the SADC secretariat itself a science and technology innovation team and through that unit various technical committees can be established as directed by the committee of ministers. .

There are naturally financial implications in this. Member countries will be putting as much effort as they will be able to in order to support science and technology. However, efforts to raise funding through international organisations and other partners we have in our region. Finally, the secretariat also while it will be of ensuring that work will be within the rules and protocols of SADC will be empowered to fund raise for the benefit of our efforts of building science and technology in the region. Protocol really simply says as a way of intensifying the process of development in our area we should make an effort to do a lot more as far as the field of science and technology development is concerned. Thank you.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

GOVERNMENT POLICY ON ARTS, SPORTS AND CULTURE

SENATOR GUTU: I move the motion standing in my name that this House concerned with the increasing poverty levels among the ordinary people of Zimbabwe;

FURTHER CONCERNED by the absence of a properly defined policy on the development of the arts, sport and culture;

Noting that these disciplines can significantly and economically empower many people through employment creation.

CALLS UPON the Inclusive Government to formulate a well defined and strategic policy aimed at identifying, nurturing and developing the artistic, cultural and sporting talents of Zimbabweans living within an outside the country.

SENATOR MARAVA: I second.

SENATOR GUTU: The motion in my name basically dwells with issues of developing the arts, sports and culture. In Zimbabwe, to the best of my knowledge since independence and even before independence arts, sports and culture have been seriously considered as avenues of human endeavor, that can significantly contribute towards employment recreation and therefore towards government goal of alleviating and subsequently eliminating poverty. Sports, arts and culture should have been considered as recreational endeavors that have never been prioritised in national development. I think we have heard many a times that even society views artists as people who are not taken seriously and Madam President, there is a cultural misconception that people believe that this is actually where such people are referred to as marombe. That remained a serious misconception because arts in itself is a very serious sphere of human endeavor and if taken seriously, it would be amazing how much It can achieve in terms of both employment and in terms of generation of wealth.

I am talking here of both material and financial wealth, how much can be crested if we are going to have a holistic and properly articulated and implemented policy on the arts, sports and culture. I am pleased to note Madam President that we have a Ministry of Education, Arts, Sports and Culture. Most of the time the main thrust of the Ministry, it is unfortunate that the Minister is not here today, I was going to point it out that the main thrust of the Ministry of Education and very sparingly they talk of arts, sports and I have always wondered why we still hide issues of sports and culture. In my research, I have realised that a country like Nigeria, it is a big country in terms of its population around 40 million people. It is so many times the population of Zimbabwe. But, I have discovered that Nigeria has exported not less than 5 000 footballers mainly to Europe, some to South America.

There are Nigerians playing football in Uruguay and in countries like Peru, Brazil and some even in South Africa. I came across this startling revelation that Nigerian sport persons, particularly their footballers who have been exported from Nigeria, they remit US$ 100 million to Nigeria every month. And if you look at that to say if Nigeria with a Population which is ten times the population of Zimbabwe get about US$100 million from each sporting export, let us say Zimbabwe with a population which is ten times smaller than Nigeria would also be able to get about US$10 million per month if we were going to pursue our sporting talents vigorously, that would help the country. I know that the Minister might say they have been playing in Europe, Italy and Spain, what about it, but, my argument is that we believe that we have got more talent here in this country. The only difference that we have Madam President is that our talent in Zimbabwean sport and culture has not been exposed, and where it has been exposed, it has not been properly targeted in such a way that we then fail to export our sporting talents to be more competitive.

Madam President, I believe all of us here have heard about Peter Ndlovu. He made history by breaking into the English premiership and playing for Coventry City at a very young age of 19 years. He was exported in to the English Premiership and so why is it that after Peter Ndlovu was exported in to the English Premiership in 1991, the only other export Zimbabwe manged to export was Benjani Mwaruwaru and he only went there 4 to 5 years ago. For those of us who love football, the English Premiership is the most lucrative, I think why we do not take it seriously is because there is a death of talents Madam President. It is because we do not have a properly articulated and properly formulated policy by government in this country, which will go out there in the rural areas and identify nature and develop sports and culture. I refuse to say that you can have two players, for now it is one player playing for a team in the premiership. We do not have a policy that identifies young boys and girls at a tender age.

I will give you an example of Ivory Coast, the population is not different from Zimbabwe, I think we are about the same size in terms of population but it is amazing that the major football teams in Europe are full of people from Ivory Coast. My own favorite team Arsenal has got Emmanuel Ibho and Cole Tore, a country which is about the same size with Zimbabwe in terms of population.

Here we are crying that we do not have money but we are sitting on talent that we can commodify into money. I do not think we need donor funds to go to Makokoba, Emganwini, Mbare, Chitungwiza or Mkoba to identify a sporting talent. I do not think we need money to come up with policies which is the main cast of my motion. There is sport and talent and I have mentioned football because this is the most popular sport and the world's beautiful game. I am not saying there are no other games that are beautiful but football is popular.

If we are going to talk about other disciplines, there are so many talented Zimbabweans, in rugby for instance. Those of us who are rugby fans, we will remember that the Springboek in South Africa, two or three of their players are from Zimbabwe. There is a young man called Tendai "the best" Mutawara, he is a Zimbabwean who is now playing for South Africa. Why is he playing for Springboek whilst Zimbabwe is across the river Limpopo and I do not think we have a national team. Around 1980 I think we had the strongest rugby team and my problem is, if Mutawara can wear the Sprinboek jersey and make the kind of money that he is making in South Africa and he is a Zimbabwean who had to get the South African Citizenship to play, why can we not as a country identify that we have a talent.

It is because we are just sitting there and folding hands hoping that donors will fly to Harare International Airport with bags of money. That will not happen. We really have to be serious and make sure that we make do with what we have and that we exploit the talent that God gave us that is the human talent that is found in our brothers and sisters, our daughters and sons and granddaughters and grandsons instead of mourning and say this country has been forsaken and things are refusing to move. This is because we do not want to move.

I will then talk about the arts in general and my main focus is in music. There are so many musical giants, groups in this country. Some of them have relocated outside Zimbabwe. We actually have some of the best musicians under the sun. I think this august House, all of us, have heard of the Chimurenga Guru, Thomas Tafirenyika Mukanya Mapfumo, who has not heard or come across the rhythm of Oliver Mutukuzi. Their generations, these are self making musicians who taught themselves how to play mbira, guitar and how to sing.

If you look backwards I have never come across in the school curriculum music being taken serious. There are very few schools out there that have music in their curricular or vocal music as a subject. We do not take it serious. When you look around, some of the world's richest people are musicians. We have heard this lady who dances as if the sun is going to come down, Madona. Madona is a musician and a millionaire. I talk of Madona because of her recent exploring in Malawi where she adopted two children. This shows that people can earn a living, in fact, people can be very rich and contribute to the development of their country if they are going to pursue music seriously as a carrier.

Nearer home, I was asking Hon Dube, there is a group called IYASA. I am told IYASA is an abbreviation which means Inkululeko Yabatsha Arts. I think we have all come across these young boys and girls of IYASA. I am told they are a product of Mpopoma Secondary School. If I look at how much IYASA has managed to do for the community of Bulawayo, Mpopoma, Magwegwe; they have managed to put those young boys and girls out of trouble engaging them in the arts. They have managed to teach those boys and girls profitable ways of survival. I have attended weddings here in Harare where IYASA has been contracted to perform.

In Gutu Mpandwana the other day, I saw a group called IYASA B. curiously I asked who these IYASA B were and was told these were IYASA juniors being groomed. This shows how serious this group is taking arts. IYASA has been to UK, USA, Greece, Europe and Australia just through the exploitation of their artistic talent. I am saying instead of having one IYASA in Zimbabwe, why do we not as a country make sure that through the Ministry of Education and Culture there is a national policy to make sure that there is an IYASA in every township so that at the end of the day, people say I am out looking for a job or I will go to England to look for a job.

I have seen many people that go out of the country. You will be surprised at the kind of jobs that Zimbabweans do there. Highly qualified people doing the kind of job that they will be ashamed to do here. People might be having talent and they know that they are talented but they think that if they go out of the country they run away from poverty. They think if you get into an aeroplane and get out of the country, you will be rich over night.

I am saying we have to make do with what we have, we have several Thomas Mapfumos out there. We have people like John Chibadura, the Banolila, Solomon Sikuza - there are several musicians who unfortunately, because they had not been properly marketed, have died poor. However, I believe that because there is no proper policy on arts, one finds that all these musicians and persons like John Chibadura die poor.

Madam President, I always wonder why this man died poor and I believe it is because there are no proper policies in place. The same applies to most of these musicians because our country has lack of proper policies to empower these people. You find that a musician thinks that they have made it if their song is being played at Chitungwiza Aquatic Centre but there are a lot of things that need to be done in order to properly market them.

I also have in mind the Bhundu Boys, who in 1993 shared the stage at Wembley in London with Madonna. They played in front of about 120 000 people. However, by the time Biggy Tembo died, he was a pauper. I am told there is only one member of the Bhundu Boys who is still alive in London and is doing menial work. What I am trying to emphasize is that because we do not have a proper art policy, we are found wanting. I am not only talking about our musicians, I am also talking about people who have made names - for instance, Langton School Boy Tinago who is dying a poor man in Shurugwi. At one time Langton School Boy Tinago was the Commonwealth champion and a champion of the world. That means we are talking of a man who was well known but he is dying a poor man in Shurugwi. I heard that Stalin Mau Mau is trying to help him to get food on his table. It is all reflective of a lack of a proper government policy to nurture our talent in sports and arts. We can also talk about Proud Killimanjaro in the early 1990s, who was the African Heavy Weight Champion. By the time he died he was a pauper.

I can mention a lot of names in football who died paupers, Joel 'The Headmaster' Shambo, Mercedes Sibanda- there are lots of them and you wonder why we allow these young men to perish in poverty when during the process of their sporting talent they empower their country.

Madam President, you hardly hear of a Nigerian footballer who died a pauper. I can give an example of Nwanko Kanu. People might think that he is of my age but he is 33 and is still playing for Portsmouth Club. People say that Kanu is one of the richest men in Africa through playing football. I have never been to Nigeria but those of my colleagues who know Kanu say he has developed his village, his home town and that he has started a Nwanko Kanu Heart Foundation because he had a heart operation many years ago. This is just to show that in our country these things never happen.

The last time I heard about Peter Ndlovu, several women were suing him for maintenance. That is not the issue but may be because we do not have a proper policy to be able to advance our sporting talent, we end up in this kind of mess. At the end of the day we are sitting on an untapped gold mine of arts, sport and culture. Musicians out there still perform but because of lack of proper policies of government, most of them die poor.

On the Internet there is a sad story about Fortune Muparutsa. He died in England in October last year and his body is still in a mortuary in England. Eight months after his death he has not been buried because his family is experiencing difficulties in bringing his body home. They can not raise 2 500 pounds to make sure that Fortune is buried. So, I was saying that supposing Fortune was a Nigerian, would this have happened?

All this shows that if we had a proper policy by government, all these unfortunate and embarrasing incidences would not have happened. Madam President, with those few words, I support my motion

SENATOR MARAVA: In my support to this motion, what I have discovered in Zimbabwe as a whole is that Zimbabwe is rich in all spheres of arts, culture and sport. What is only needed is to tap this unending mineral which can empower our country and surely, there have been unofficial exports of Zimbabwean talent and everybody has heard or seen some of these people like Peter Ndlovu. If it was goodwill, the Zimbawean goodwill that has been earned through Peter Ndlovu could have been a mountainous issue. Furthermore, if you look at all the tourist attractions in Zimbabwe, taking for example the Victoria Falls; it does not only have to do with the Victoria Falls but it is also because of those men and women who dance when the tourists arrive. The first attraction that touches their minds are the dancing troops. As far as I have seen, if these people are empowered, it would go a long way. We have checked some of the people when I went to Great Zimbabwe ruins and you will find out that the cultural singers there struggle even to get their dressing; the local dressing that they need to perform their duties. Government could easily chip in and help them to get this traditional regalia. It is not difficult to identify these people like the hon. gentleman has pointed out that you do not need a passport to go to Victoria Falls or Great Zimbabwe or Zaka or Tsholotsho. If these talents are taped whilst these children are still at school like having this white paper implemented, our Government Policy is 'catch them young' and our country would be heard worldwide. As far as this is concerned, this can empower our people through self employment because they can create their own employment in arts and sport whilst we await our industry to gain momentum. Everybody could have something to do. We can not continue to have these loffers doing nothing on the streets and it is the least conception in this country. This can be put to an end because among Zambians, South Africans and Malawians, you will find out that there are Zimbabwean performers. You will find Zimbabweans in sport and arts everywhere. Think about Benhuras, they are well known but for how long will they be able to stand on their own. There is need for government intervention. -[HON SENATOR: Vana Hohodza vakatorovaka]-. You will also find out that even the morale of our youngsters can be aroused. Right now we are going to the World Cup in South Africa and we are the closest neighbours. If you live with someone suffering from measles, you will also get the measles as well but we have not yet caught the measles. If these issues can be taken seriously, you will get millions coming here. This country is very rich in culture and we are not too many in Zimbabwe. We are plus or minus 13 million in a country that is plus or minus 400 000 square kilometers. In this House we have serious representatives of all cultures and artists and these are the traditional chiefs sitting in this House. We are short of nothing in this House as far as I am concerned. All we need to do is stand up and start accepting what we already have. Thank you Madam President

*HON. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam President. I want to support the motion raised by senator Gutu that our children in sport have to stand up and be raised up by us the government. It is true what you are talking about Senator Gutu because if we have a look here in Zimbabwe, the fame of our youths in sport and arts is heard for a short time then it fades away. We need to support our sport. The Ministry of Education, Sport and Culture Minister is in place to formulate a way to support sport and culture missions but it is not being taken seriously in the educational syllabus. Children should be involved in sport starting from grade 3. In other countries, like Nigeria, there are sport academies because sport needs to be supported. At school, sport is not being taken as a lesson. There were young football players during the days of Grabowski and I also used to play football when I was young. Sports should be in the syllabus if we want our children to rise up and to be sold to other countries. In other countries schools are called centres of excellency. Children from grade 3 upwards must be grouped and natured according to their talent and ability. Because of that, these children's talents will flourish because they will know that they will secure a job at the end of the day. If it is a Ministry of Sport and Culture with the Sport and Culture out of the syllabus, we will never succeed. I was giving an example; there are some who play and dance Jerusarema and if you listen to the radio those drums which are heard during news time were played by Vambe. His drums are well known on the national Radio and Television but he is very poor although he played drums which are heard on media everyday. If you look at Sulumani Chimbetu, the instruments that they use were left by his father but they are trying to rise up and the government should formulate a policy to assist these youths. The guitars which their fathers left are the same guitars that the children are using. These issues are not being looked into and it is because of this policy gap.

*CHIEF MUSARURWA: Part of speech not recorded due to technical fault.

SENATOR CHITSA: I would like to reiterate on what Senator Gutu has highlighted in the motion. What he said is what used to happen when I was a young girl. It is a very good motion and that is the reason why I have decided to contribute. In Bulawayo, when I was growing up we used to have what we called boys and girls clubs. I think this was being done by the City Council. They used to build recreational facilities for boys and girls and even our mothers were going for cookery lessons and other handcraft lessons. The council was playing this role so that when the children finish their lessons for the day, they would go to those clubs. We were being taught different types of sports for example tennis, netball, table tennis and so forth. This was very educative and interesting. This was preventing children from being mischievous.

When the children grew up some of them got employed because of their sport talents. I think we should have a home grown policy to develop these talents so that when the children leave school they will have something to do. I think children should be supported. During those days teachers used to identify people with talents so that their talents could be developed. So, many people did not suffer much during those years because of these activities, they had something to do. Our mothers were benefiting from these women's clubs because of the good role of the council. These days these recreational places are being used by some other people for business purposes. I do not know whether this is because of the melting-down of our economy. I urge the government to revive the recreational facilities. I think we should have that kind of policy because it encourages young people to take sporting activities seriously.

SENATOR HLALO: I am going to contribute to Senator Gutu's motion and to affirm that there should be a policy. What I am going to do is something which is practically since he mentioned two names, Peter Ndlovu and Benjani Mwariwari. The two people that he mentioned are products of the very strong policy of Bulawayo City Council, where I was. I was also part of the decision makers who made decisions that we were to send some youths to Aberdeen in Scotland. So, we had as council a youth policy that every year our youths would either go to Aberdeen for some youth tournaments. This stopped after our relations became sour with the outside world. We could not send our youth to the tournaments. Even Iyasa which he mentioned, it is a product of the youth centre. When Iyasa started, it started in my ward when I was still a councilor. I think the other cities of Zimbabwe should try and get to Bulawayo and see how Bulawayo is being run. Youth centres are there but because of lack of support from local government most of the programmes were turned out. Maybe it was a reflection of what the country was doing. What was happening was that when the Central Bank did not support those City Councils then started to also withdraw but all the programmes are there. Even when you go to Trade Fair we see those drum majorettes who march and those come from different clubs in Bulawayo. All these disciplines which Senator Chitsa has alluded to, we are aware that if a person is good in cookery he just goes into cookery and if you are good in music you go into music. I am also a product of a youth centre but all I am saying is that all the musicians who come from Bulawayo are products of these youth centres.

We can have guitars at the youth centre but for you to get to the guitar you had to be skilled and the guy will be given a chance. If delegates are sent to Bulawayo to see the infrastructure of of these youth centres. It will do us a favour, as what Senator Gutu was saying, in that maybe all what has been said will be turned into a policy which the government supports. I think we could be going in the right direction.

SENATOR MHLOTSHWA: I stand up to support the motion put by Senator Gutu but before I do that, I need to speak on the issue of your machines not in order. Every time this is intimidating us...

MADAM PRESIDENT: They are our machines.

SENATOR MHLOTHSWA: Alright, our machines. I am saying the issue is intimidating us because I wanted to contribute in Isindebele because that is the language I am best in. So now I have to start thinking of putting my contribution in English and this becomes really a problem. I think you are going to rectify the problem as soon as you can.

Madam President I happen to be a musician myself but I have now ventured into politics because it was not paying. I did afford to raise money to record so it was a problem but I could say if the policy would be put in place I might shift and go back to the music industry because that is where I express myself better. Sports in developed countries is not for income generation.

It goes a long way in nation building because if you have to meet at a certain club from a different part of the a location or a different part of the district, it will be of value to each other because you know you have to compete against each other and you can discuss a lot of issues be it political or something else and agree at a certain point.

Madam President, culture if we had a government policy we could have set our tribal differences aside because all the people know differences, for example our ritual differences, in different parts of the country, our food prepared for such rituals will be known to everyone, that is what happens. The way we conduct our marriages, it will not be a surprise from someone who wants to inter-marry because he would know that the marriage goes this way or that way in this culture, so I think we really need to support and come out with a policy. In the ceremony when a Venda from Beitbridge wants to marry a Tonga, he will know how to go about it because it will be included in a government policy. I believe if we put our heads together and preserve our culture and heritage so that we can even have in our calendar stipulated that on a particular day, we will be having a particular function. For example in Swaziland, they have this day where the King has to select a new wife, we can as well have the same in our country. We should support that, so that in case one day I may not be in Parliament, you will know that there was a typical Ndebele function that I will be attending. So I will not have to seek leave to be excused, because it will be in the calendar.

Madam President, we have chiefs in this House who can spearhead this culture issue. By not having proper policies, the chiefs now are tampering with politics, which is not their field. I think the policy will give the chiefs what to do. We can instill cultural beliefs to curb HIV and Aids because other spheres have failed, so in our culture we will tell our girls that they should abstain up to 25 years. If it is in that culture, maybe we would not be having an escalating number of HIV and Aids cases. We should take our culture as a way of encouraging circumcision, it is in our culture to encourage boys to go through circumcision so as to curb HIV and Aids.

I was challenged by the policy so as to challenge chiefs to go to the cultural heritage and preserve it, because, if they do not do that now it will mean for the generations to come, there will not be anything to reflect on a certain practice, so I think this motion should go a long way for us to push for a meaningful budget for the chiefs to perform. At one time I was observing the former Minister of Education Hon. Chigwedere when he said our national team 'The Warriors" were having several defeats and he said no, I think we should do a cultural ritual before they go so that maybe they could go and make it but the only point that I remembered that day which he did not do well is that we only performed one type of a ritual and he forgot that there were twenty two teams coming from different regions. So if our chiefs were active then they would come up with such a ritual.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday 18th June, 2009.

On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS, the Senate adjourned at Three Minutes past Four 'o' clock p.m.

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Senate Hansard Vol. 18 SENATE HANSARD - 17 JUNE 2009 VOL. 18 NO. 20