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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 27 November 2019 46-09

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 27^th November, 2019

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER

PETITIONS RECEIVED FROM L. MUPASIRI JANI AND

MHONDONGORI RESOURCES COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT

TRUST

       THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, I have the following

announcements.  I have to inform the House that on Tuesday, 12^th

November, 2019, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from L. Mupasiri Jani, Director of the Combined Harare Residents Association requesting Parliament to investigate revenues allocated to local authorities by the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works to enact a law governing the allocation of revenues to Provincial and

Metropolitan Councils including local authorities.

         The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Local Government and Public Works.

         I also have to inform the House that on Monday, 18th November 2019, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. K. Zireva co-ordinator of the Mhondongori Resources Community Development Trust, beseeching Parliament to reinstate and review the indigenisation laws of Zimbabwe in order to ensure that local communities benefit from the exploitation of mineral resources as envisaged by Section 13(4) of the Constitution.

         The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Industry and Commerce and the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment.”

COMMEMORATION OF THE CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF

THE CHILD

       THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that

Parliament, in conjunction with UNICEF will be hosting a High Level Forum to commemorate thirty years of the Convention on the Rights of the Child on Friday, 29 November 2019 in the Courtyard at Parliament.

The following Members are invited to the commemorations:

1. All Chairpersons of Committees;
2. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Primary and Secondary

Education;

3. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and

Parliamentary Affairs;

4. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care; and
5. Members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.

ERROR ON TODAY’S ORDER PAPER

THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to draw your attention to an error on today’s Order Paper where Order of the Day, Number 26 should be deleted and the rest of the Orders re-numbered accordingly.

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I have received apologies from the following Ministers

1. Marapira – Minister of State in the Vice President’s K. C. D.

Mohadi’s Office;

2. R. I. Modi – Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce;
3. M. Chombo – Deputy Minister of Local Government and

Public Works;

4. V. Haritatos – Deputy Minister of Lands, Water, Climate and

Rural Resettlement;

5. Prof Ncube - Minister of Finance and Economic

Development.

         Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira having presented a Notice of Motion on the Report of the Privileges Committee on allegations of corruption raised against Hon. Mliswa, Hon Chikomba, Hon. Ndebele and Hon. P. D. Sibanda.

       HON. SIKHALA: Zvenyu zvekuframer vanhu  here izvo –

[Laughter]-.

   THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon Sikhala, can you withdraw that

statement because the Committee was duly constituted after this august House said it should be constituted. It was a decision of the august House.

         HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I was a legal practitioner of the people who had been accused of having committed the crime, so I am privy to the evidence that was adduced. However, if you would like me to withdraw so that we debate the report - I withdraw Mr. Speaker but we meet on the debate of the report.

        THE HON. SPEAKER:  I did not want to say I was also a legal

practitioner there. The fundamental issue is, it was a decision of the august House which you must respect. The mover of the motion will read out the report and you are allowed to debate at that stage. So you cannot start to say the issues raised were concocted. As a lawyer surely you cannot say that as well before you hear the report. I want you to withdraw honourably and unconditionally.

        HON SIKHALA: I withdraw Mr. Speaker Sir.

        THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you very much.

  HON MARKHAM: On a point of privilege. I just like to refer

back to the issue that I raised with regards to the special report on the Airport Road. You gave a ruling that it should be presented to us by the

26^th November 2019. To my knowledge, this has not been done.

      THE HON. SPEAKER:  I did engage the Minister of Local

Government and Public Works and gave him the two letters that were written to his office. He indicated that he would look into the matter and present the report once he has discovered it. Apparently, that report appears not to be within his office but he is looking for it for presentation here in the august House. To give comfort to you, this morning I did converse with him to remind him that he should prepare to present that report to this august House and he committed himself to do

         HON. SARUWAKA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, our Standing Rules, Section 76 on the decorum of Parliament in terms of dressing, I have noticed over time that during Mr. Mugabe’s time, you took offence to any dressing that replicated the national flag colours.  However, since

2017, I have noticed that Mr. Mnangagwa comes in the House with the – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -  He comes in the House with the scarf.  I do not see any problem with that but I was wondering whether you still maintain the position that you do not want anything with the flag colours in the House – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

         I have not finished.  My main point Mr. Speaker Sir is, do you still take offence with anyone dressing in the flag colours, because I was actually removed from this House for wearing my jacket which has got the same colours as the scarf that my colleague, the President of ZANU PF wears in the House.  Do you still have any problems with it?

         THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  In the first place, I am not aware of someone called Mr. Mnangagwa.  I am aware of President Mnangagwa.  Secondly, the scarf which His Excellency the President wears is not part of attire; it is his trade mark – [HON. MEMBERS:

Inaudible interjections.] -  Order, order.  I urge anyone else to look at the Oxford Dictionary and see the difference between what is meant by attire in terms of Section 76 of the Standing Orders against what I said was a trade mark and then you can convince me accordingly.

         HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Hon. Speaker, my point of privilege arises out of what transpired in the House yesterday, which to me and to other colleagues that are of the same mind call the shrinking of the democratic space within the theatre of democracy which is Parliament.  What transpired yesterday Hon. Speaker is that Members were debating on the Zimbabwe Investment and Development Agency Bill.  The Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who happens also to be the Leader of Government in this House uttered words that conclusively mean that members of the opposition even if they were to contribute towards a Bill in this House, they will not be responded to.

His response was let us proceed, let us proceed and let us proceed.

Hon. Speaker, I do appreciate that the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs could have his own issues either with the opposition party or certain members of the opposition party, but Hon. Speaker, his utterances come on the background of you having made a ruling just a few days ago.  The ruling that you had made Hon. Speaker, was to the effect that a previous ruling that you had made, which had agreed to the application which had been made by the same Hon. Minister to gag Hon. Members from the opposition from asking questions, was unconstitutional.  I think that is how you ruled it, but then Hon. Speaker, to have a Cabinet Minister, not just an ordinary Cabinet Minister, but a Leader of Government Business in the House coming literally to trample onto the ruling that you had made as the Hon. Speaker is an indication that there is conflict within the House between the Executive and the Legislature.

Hon. Speaker, our expectations as Hon. Members of Parliament is that when you make a ruling, that ruling should be respected by both sides of the House, but when the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs walks here to oppose directly an order that you had given as the Chair, it is an indication that we are directly undermining the authority, not only of the Speaker, but also of the House.

  So Hon. Speaker, I therefore desire that I hear from you today whether that is the current position of Parliament, that the so called law reform that we are making as a country is only the preserve of the ruling party as was indicated yesterday by the Leader of Government Business.  We want to know and the nation wants to know whether the reform that has been referred to by the Second Republic is a reform that is only led by the ruling party without the participation of the opposition.  I thank you Hon. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order, order.  Your microphone is on there – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]-  Order.  Can I make some correction?  First, the order you referred to must be contextualised.  The order was not made a few days ago.  The order was made soon after our Pre-Budget Seminar at Victoria Falls and the order was very specific that in terms of the Constitution and the Standing Orders, particularly Section 107 (2) of the Constitution when read together with our Standing Orders, Wednesday is question time and by the same token, on Thursdays in the Senate it is Private Members

Business which in terms of the Constitution and Standing Orders take precedence over Government business.  That was the context of the ruling.

As for what happened yesterday, I need to read the Hansard and make a decision accordingly because I want to know what exactly transpired and then will come back on the issue.  Thank you.

HON. MUSHORIWA:  Point of Privilege Mr. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Today is question time.  We have too many privileges.

HON. SIKHALA:  I had a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, which you deferred after giving Hon. Sibanda the opportunity to give his point of privilege.  Can I be given an opportunity for my point of order to be heard?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Normally a point of order rises from a

debate.

HON. SIKHALA:  Yes, there is a debate that arose that followed the point of privilege by the Honourable Member of Mutasa South, Hon.

Saruwaka.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  No, that cannot be a point of order after the Speaker’s ruling.

HON. SIKHALA:  I just want to seek a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker Sir.  Can I be given an opportunity, Mr. Speaker Sir, to ask a point of clarification?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Just take a seat please.

HON. SIKHALA:  Mr. Speaker,...

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Just take a seat.  If you listened very carefully, I said go and check the difference between attire and trade marking.

HON. SIKHALA:  No, that one is heard Mr. Speaker, but there is a clarity which is different from what you are saying.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Is there any debate arising from that?

HON. SIKHALA:  No, I just want some clarification from some sticking issues arising from that.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Go to the dictionary first and then come back to me and I will give you the opportunity.

HON. MUSHORIWA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My point of

privilege is in respect of the papers that have been laid before Parliament.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  The what?

HON. MUSHORIWA:  The budget papers that have been laid before Parliament by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, namely the Blue Book, the Budget Statement and the Infrastructure Statement.

Mr. Speaker Sir, for probably the third or second year in this session, in this Parliament, the figures that are contained in those three books do not talk to each other.  The Blue Book for instance carries a lot of mistakes and it is very difficult, Mr. Speaker Sir, for Members of Parliament to actually understand which is correct because you will find that the Blue Book is different from the Budget Statement and it is also different from what is contained in the Infrastructure Statement.  To that extent, Mr. Speaker Sir, we would request the Chair to order the relevant Minister to bring accurate information to this House to enable us to debate those issues.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I will bring that to the attention of the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development to ascertain whether your observation is correct or not.

*HON. KWARAMBA:  On a point of privilege.  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]- My point of privilege, Mr. Speaker Sir, is that we hear that those who sent their grain to GMB were given a cutoff point of October, but when we look at those who engage in farming they experience a lot of expenses and they sent their grain to GMB on time. So, what I am saying is that the farmers are the ones who took their grain to GMB before October. Those who took their grain from October until now are middlemen, they are not the farmers. It is because people knew that there would be back pay. The middlemen are now taking their grain to GMB and making more money. My request is that the back pay be given to all the farmers. Let us assist our farmers and not dishearten them. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

   THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Members. I think

there is a titivation towards abuse of points of order. Some of the points of orders can be turned into questions to the Hon. Ministers. I do not want us to revisit standing orders so that we are very pointed in our points of privilege. I am not allowing any further points of privilege.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

         HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Environment and Tourism. What is Government policy on providing positive incentives to rural communities so that they can embark on sustained actions that mitigate climate change in their areas?

        THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY

EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA) on behalf of  THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. There is quite a number of programmes that the Government is doing to work together with people who may be affected by climate changes particularly in those areas where there are CAMPFIRE programmes because CAMPFIRE programmes are related to the environment and the climate changes that are affecting all of us have been taken into account and we will do the best we can to work with everybody else. Thank you.

  HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Could the

Hon. Minister advise this House that given the fact that if you look in terms of the budget, there is no allocation of funds towards climate management. How does the Minister’s response dovetail, given that there is no proper budget which is meant to mitigate against climate change?

         THE HON. SPEAKER: I am afraid that question is misdirected because it must have to relate to tourism promotion. I saw another one standing, is it Hon. Tsunga? Is that a supplementary question?

       *HON. TSUNGA: Yaa, it is a supplementary question.

     THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, in responding to the Chair

you do not say yaa.

       HON. TSUNGA: Oh! I beg your pardon Hon. Speaker.

     THE HON. SPEAKER:  You must say yes Hon. Speaker. –

[Laughter]-

        *HON. TSUNGA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. The question that

was posed on climate change, - I have a supplementary that there are things that are happening that are causing climate change. I wanted to find out what policy the Ministry has in place to address that - the dust that comes from the mining areas during mining? What policy is in place to address such activities because it is affecting our tourism industry?

        THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY

EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA) on behalf of THE MINISTER

OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

ZIYAMBI): We have a department called EMA in Government and

have laws that relate to that department. So if there are any actions that affect our environment or affect climate, it is that department that deals with them. I am sure we have enough laws and regulations that control that. Thank you.

       HON. MADZIMURE: My point of clarification is that the

Minister is not well informed. There is this policy document and it is not coming from EMA. There is a department in the Ministry of Agriculture responsible for climate change. So, the issue of climate change has nothing to do with EMA and there is a policy document that the Government has produced. The Minister must actually direct his question to a fact. He must apologise for misleading the House. –[HON.

MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

         THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Minister, do you want to answer?

    [The Hon. Speaker having been advised by the Clerks-at-the-

Table]

         THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I have been advised by the Clerk of Parliament. The Hon. Minister referred to EMA in the context of pollution aspect which Hon. Tsunga raised. To that extent, the answer from the Hon. Minister who was Acting Minister of Tourism up to a few minutes ago was correct.

         +HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to – [HON. SIKHALA: Inaudible interjection.] –

         THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Sikhala, I do not think your comment is fair about – [HON. SIKHALA: No, I am not talking about her.] – about the card – [Laughter.] –

         HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, if it was fired on the cross fire, I apologise.  Myself as the National Vice Chairman of the MDC, if anybody would have gone with my card, I have got the right to follow them – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – If you look at the backside of our political card, there is a lacuna written there saying that this card remains the property of the MDC – [Laughter.] – However, I have not yet made up my mind whether to pursue my card from her or not – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

   THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I do not think this

is the place to cast some aspersions about any member’s political history.  If I were someone else someone would say where is that card for MDC-99? [Laughter] –

     +HON. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Farmers received

inputs through the Presidential Inputs Scheme.  What has the Ministry done to ensure those inputs are commensurate with the soil types in their area?

   THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL

HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Yes,

Government is distributing all kinds of seeds all over the country and the Ministry of Agriculture has extension officers.  Therefore, it is those extension officers and other Government officials who advise our farmers as to what grades or seed to use for a certain type of soil.  So we have enough officials out there to assist everybody and every farmer anywhere in Zimbabwe. I thank you.

         HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement.  In his absence, I will direct my question to the Acting Leader of Government Business.  The Ministry has identified farms for repossession and has actually issued letters of intent to repossess.  However, we need to know what is now holding the Ministry from actually repossessing those farms for reallocation.

   THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL

HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA):  Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of

farms that are to be repossessed is an issue that has been in the hands of Government for a long time.  We will therefore discuss this issue and look into every possibility of how to handle the issue, hence we are still discussing and making more investigations.  The hon. House will be informed as to how far we have gone and as to when we are going to implement.  Thank you.

               +HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is

directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care.  We heard that junior doctors are on strike and yesterday we also heard that senior doctors have joined the strike.  I would like to know what the Government is doing to resolve this issue of striking doctors.

             THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.

1. O. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for his question. Hon. Biti requested for a Ministerial Statement and I will answer all those questions today – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Questions related to health matters will be covered by the Hon. Minister Dr. Moyo.

  *HON. HAMAUSWA: I would like to find out whether when the

Minister delivers his Statement…

         THE HON. SPEAKER:   Order, order.  Hon. Hamauswa, with all

due respect, when a Ministerial Statement is made, you can then raise questions of clarification.

         HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  In view of high charges demanded by the transporters, what measures has the Government put in place to cushion travelers from these unscrupulous service providers during the coming holidays?

      THE HON. SPEAKER:  Can the Hon. Member be heard in

silence.  Hon. Member, please repeat your question.

 HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I said my question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  In view of high charges demanded by transporters, what measures has the Government put in place to cushion travelers from these scrupulous service providers during these coming holidays? – [Laughter.] - I mean the scrupulous service providers and not ZUPCO -unscrupulous service providers.  Thank you.

        THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND

INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.

MATIZA): Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question.  The Government is so sensitive to the plight of the passengers that Government has put in place a programme of acquiring new buses that will ply the routes in the urban and in the rural areas.  Such a programme is in progress as witnessed in Bulawayo in Matabeleland South.  These programmes are going to continue to make sure that we see the plight of our passengers. I thank you.

        *HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  My

supplementary question to the Hon. Minister of Transport is that, we understand that they brought in the ZUPCO buses but the drivers are troubled by the potholes and also the breakdowns they experience from the buses because of the poor road network.  We are requesting that you address the issue of poor road network than just to name streets instead of addressing the issue of potholes on the roads.  I thank you.

         THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not tempt the Chair to send your out.  Please, observe the decorum of the House so that the Hon. Minister can be heard in silence and the questioner will then be satisfied.  If you want to ask supplementary questions, you will be so directed.  Thank you.  *HON. ARCH MATIZA: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  Government

has measures in place to address the issue of our poor road networks well known by the Members of Parliament in this House.  Government has various measures to address these roads.  There are four roads authorities  will address the issue of roads – rural, DDF and Local

Government.  Some will come from ZINARA which will send money to the local authorities upon acquittals and monitoring of transparency in the use of money.

In other areas, the road authorities have not brought in acquittals.

So the money cannot be disbursed before the acquittals are received.  There is also corruption in some areas where the money is abused and that is why you find that the roads have not been reconstructed but in other areas the roads challenges have been addressed.  I thank you Mr.

Speaker.

        *HON. HAMAUSWA: My supplementary question to the Hon.

Minister is - what measures does he have in place in light of the rain season such that the bus terminals are well kept and conducive for commuters?  If you look at the terminuses in Harare, they are a challenge.  There are no benches and no sheds; you will find elderly people standing in queues.  What measures have they put in place to ensure that commuters are able to wait for their transport in a well secured environment?

        *HON. ARCH MATIZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I also want to

thank the Hon. Member who raises the question.  He has looked at the urban centres.  As I said there are roads authorities and the four of them, the one that he is talking about is of urban councils.  They were under the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.  All I can respond to is that the authority has powers and authority to address the issue of terminuses and ensure that they are safe for commuters.  So, council has the authority and it will be availed funds to ensure that they address the challenge.  I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

HON. MPARIWA:  On a point of order.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Does it arise from the debate?

HON. MPARIWA: Yes on this debate.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Which debate......

HON. MPARIWA:  And I promise.

THE HON. SPEAKER: You will ask a supplementary question

and not raise a point of order.

*HON. MPARIWA:  Alright.  From what I heard from the question raised by Hon. P. Zhou, the reason why the question is still coming is that the question is being responded to by the wrong Minister and the question that is being responded to is the wrong question.

The question raised by Hon. P Zhou is that we have the elderly, vulnerable groups and widows who get food hand outs, after they have received the food handouts, they do not have transport to ferry them back home.  What is Government policy on that or what measures does Government have in place to ensure that it assists those vulnerable groups?

*THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hansard has not yet been

published.  Hon. P. Zhou is that correct?

HON. P. ZHOU:  I will read the question again.  In view of high charges demanded by transporters, what measures has the Government put in place to cushion travellers from these unscrupulous service providers during the coming holidays – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear,

hear.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order  – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Sibanda, Hon. Sibanda  there, Hon. Sibanda Zenzo.  I thought you were going to applaud the Hon. Minister of Transport who indicated that although the supplementary question asked by Hon. Hamauswa related to Local

Government, but he was still indulgent enough to answer that question.

HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Hon. Speaker I realise that you may not allow another supplementary question but there is an important question relating to the operations of ZUPCO which the Hon. Minister alluded to.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Why do you not ask a supplementary question straight forward?

HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  I thought you would say....

THE HON. SPEAKER:  You are the last one.

HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  The ZUPCO subsidies are getting almost $40 million dollars from Government every week but the country is not aware of how those subsidies are working in ZUPCO and who the actual beneficiaries of that $40 million dollars per week that is coming from Government are.  Can the Hon. Minister appraise us as a House who exactly are benefiting out of that ZUPCO programme which is taking about $40 million from Government every week because there is suspicion that there are other people outside the ZUPCO itself that are benefiting...

THE HON. SPEAKER:  You have asked the question, I am sure the Hon. Minister is quite clear.

THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND

INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.

MATIZA):  I would like to point out that this question relates to the Ministry of Local Government and Ministry of Finance.  I would rather have them answer that question.

HON. P .D. SIBANDA: With your indulgence Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance is here.  I am sure he can attend to that question.

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you for your advice.

THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): May the Hon.

Member ask the question again – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible

interjections.] –

HON. P.D. SIBANDA:  I appreciate Hon. Speaker – the question was not directed to the Hon. Minister so it might have escaped him.  My question is that the Ministry of Finance is spending close to $40 million or over every week on ZUPCO subsidies.  We are all aware that all the transport that is contracted to do work on behalf of ZUPCO do not belong to ZUPCO.  Can you explain to us who the beneficiaries are, what the policy outcomes are and how that $40 million dollars per work is being utilised and whether that is sustainable in an economy like ours?

HON. CHIDUWA:  I appreciate the question that has been asked by the Hon. Member. What is critical is for Hon. Member to get a response that is going to make sense. I would urge the Hon. Member to put that question in writing and then we attend to it next week – [HON.

MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

HON. PHULU:  My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care.  I will not be covered by the statement that he is going to make.  What is Government’s policy on applying for nurses training – the background being that there has been a storm where people, particularly from Bulawayo, Matabeleland North and Matabeleland South have been unable to apply.  We know that your Ministry took proactive action to try and sort out this issue and we would like to applaud that and they have centralised the application system.  What is the policy now – how does it work so that people are able to apply?

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.

1. O. MOYO): Yes, we have a new policy – the new policy is that of e-recruitment. This is all because in the past there was a lot of corruption in the recruitment exercises. This is now a situation which alleviates all these issues regarding corruption activities in the recruitment process, because it is all done on computer – the candidates are not known to the computer itself.  There are operators who are there to get information which comes out of the computer and the computer is not dealing in terms of names. It is fed with numbers – there are candidate numbers which are utilised.  At the end of the day, it is the candidate number versus the qualifications and the grades of the particular candidate who is applying.

  I want to also emphasize that during the first exercise which we carried out; naturally there will be some problems but however, these problems have been taken care of.  So, the next time it is going to be done, the problems which we identified are going to be a thing of the past. The types of problems which we identified were for instance, the area from which the candidate will be coming from.  We are now making sure that each candidate supplies their identify card which indicates the area where they are coming from. We want to be able to do equitable distribution of training posts right through the country.

I want also to emphasize; there is one other issue which came about as a result of this initial exercise where members from one particular area might have ended up in as a result of the choice of the computer not as a result of the choice of the individuals in another area.  So our technical partner, Chinhoyi University of Technolowdge has managed to remodel the software so that we can be able to have that equitable distribution through the use of Identity Numbers which indicate the districts from where people are coming from.

That being said, we still have to realise that even when you are applying for a degree position at the University of Zimbabwe, you do not necessarily have to come from Harare, you could be from Mutare or any part of the country. It is not marginalization, there was no marginalisation because a computer does not marginalize.  If it was individuals, that would be a different issue.  So the situation is that all that has been taken care of and all that will be taken care of in the next intake.  In the third intake which will be made, you will find that it is going to be decentralised to all the provinces.  So the provincial medical directors are the ones who are going to be overseeing that exercise, so there will never be that marginalization or discrimination.  I thank you.

         HON. PHULU: I would like to thank the Minister for that comprehensive answer.  However, I would like to ask that as we speak, this week I happen to know because I have constituency who are trying to apply and we are assisting them.   The e-system is not working; meanwhile the cut off date for the applications is approaching.  Is there going to be an extension so that when we cater for these issues then there is going to be an extension so they are able to apply?

HON. DR. MOYO: Definitely, wherever there are problems, it will be due to electricity shortages and we will increase the period there is no problem to that.

    *HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Looking at the

health sector we have problems in the system of recruitment. However, recruitment has been centralised and these potential students are supposed to be paying US$2000.   Hon. Minister, I think you should have another approach to solve these problems and look for ways of instituting a better recruitment system. You are talking of centralised recruitment, yet what is happening on the ground is a different thing.

I am going to help the Minister because there is a lot of corruption involved in recruitment.  In this current recruitment system, you said it is now computerised but I am saying there is corruption.  So, I am asking the Minister to craft a new system whereby if you are recruiting student nurses from Matabeleland South, we should have 60% coming from that province.  If you are recruiting from Manicaland, we should take a certain quarter system so that we have a fair representation of people in the constituencies.  Corruption is still involved even in the new system.

         HON. DR. MOYO: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for further expounding on what the previous Hon. Member had also indicated. Definitely, the issue was to do with corruption in the recruitment system when it was all manual.  It was to do with corruption when the system was all manual and people were paying up to US$2000 in order to get a place in nursing. There was no way this could be allowed to carry on.  The only way was to come with the e-recruiting system.  Now he is indicating to me that that system is still in place, I am very happy that he has brought it up and we would want to further tighten the system.

We also picked it up, we realised that there are some agencies that have suddenly come up on a regional basis.  The agencies are now recruiting at a local level by getting as many names as possible and they feed them in the computer themselves.  In the meantime, there are not even agencies; we do not have agencies as a Ministry of Health and Child Care, in the e-nurse recruitment exercise.  We have come up with adverts in the paper to that effect.

So do not be cheated, do not allow those cheats to continue, we want to fight this corruption, this old fashioned  system and whoever still wants to go to the old  system, it is because they are corrupt.  Their businesses which they were carrying out in a corrupt manner will suddenly die down.  Therefore, let us be fair, we want to see an equitable distributing of posts and this will be achieved through the software changes which have been put in place by Chinhoyi University of Technology.

         +HON. NYONI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would like to know what Government policy is, I will give an example, let us suppose that a nurse gets married and maybe she is someone who is suffering from sugar diabetes and has to inject herself but when she asks for a transfer, they refuse to transfer her and she ends up getting into marriage of convenience. When she asks for a transfer, they refuse to transfer her and she is sent maybe to a very remote place where there is no network. I would like the Minister to assist because a lot of people have been asking that question.

            THE HON. SPEAKER: I am going to indulge the Hon. Member

but it is a fresh question, so we will park it for now.

Questions without notice were interrupted by THE HON. SPEAKER in

terms of standing Order Number. 64

                HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker, I move that time for Questions

Without Notice be extended.

        HON. C. MOYO: I second.

  HON. MBONDIAH: Mine is a supplementary question to the

Minister of Health. The Hon. Minister has alluded to the fact that this erecruiting system is now working and my question is how effective is it for somebody in rural Zhombe where there are no computers at all? Is this system not only for the elite and not for the children in the rural areas?

               HON. DR. O. MOYO: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for

her question since it will give me a chance to be able to expound on the fact that we are all aware that we have to move with time. That is number one and this is the age of ICTs. As it is the age of ICT, you will see that the Ministry of ICT has come up with Information

Communication Centres (ICTs) and while they are still in their infancy, whoever wants to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You see these are the developments which we are experiencing and we want to be able to appreciate what is happening.

Therefore, even when it was manual, that same problem was still there because the candidate would still have to travel. So, the most important thing right now is that we are still advertising in the press and after advertising in the press, those candidates who feel that they want to apply for nursing through the e-recruitment exercise, they will have to go to a centre where there is adequate internet access and utilise that. That was the same thing even when it was manual. They would still go to the towns, nearest growth points and so on– [HON. SIKHALA: They were using the post office.] –. That is what used to happen and we are not going to go back just because of that. Thank you.

         HON. SIKHALA: My supplementary question is that the Minister consistently emphasised corruption in the recruitment of nurses as the reason for them to change the modus operandi. Is he telling this House the honest truth because I know him very well and he has been a Chief Executive Officer of a central hospital in my constituency? When he was recruiting nurses, which he knows himself as the former CEO of a hospital.  He had a panel or a recruitment committee which had

members of the CIO in that committee and he knows it – [HON.

MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes!

Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is that he is misleading the House. He had a recruitment committee, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –  a patronage recruitment …

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Sikhala, hold on your emotions. Stop pointing at him and address the Chair.

HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, several times after realising his discriminatory behavior as a CEO, we stormed into the interview rooms when we noticed that he had a recruitment committee – [HON.

MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Can you ask your supplementary question and to the point.

HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker, was it as a result of corruption or as a result of a patronage system which was put in place for the recruitment of nurses because I saw him having CIOs on the recruitment panel, receiving names – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – for admissions – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. That is not a supplementary question.] – from the former First Lady, Grace Mugabe for them to be admitted at Chitungwiza Hospital. So, was it through corruption or through the patronage system – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – which you put in place during that period? That is my supplementary – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible

interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I cannot allow a situation where an Hon. Member casts aspersions. That is not permissible in terms of our Standing Orders. Hon. Member Sikhala, you cannot say the Hon.

Minister is corrupt.

HON. SIKHALA: No, Mr. Speaker, not now – [HON.

MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – but when he was the Chief

Executive. Mr. Speaker Sir, this man was a Chief Executive – [HON.

MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – of a hospital in my constituency – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – we know what he was doing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order. Hon. Kwaramba, order.  When

the Chair has ruled, you cannot persist in that respect and because of that, my punishment is that your supplementary question which was diluted shall not be answered by the Hon. Minister.

HON. DR. LABODE: Hon. Speaker, despite what was said, the new system of recruiting nurses is somehow creating a certain bias.  We are not saying there is something fish which is happening, but it cannot be allowed.  Out of 20 nurses that are going to Matabeleland South, we cannot have a situation where not even one comes from there.  You go everywhere and cannot find local people.  We know there is a technical way of dealing with these things, there is a problem.  Currently, as I am talking to you, the system was blocked.  Applicants cannot pay to register on the application online.  I spoke to the Minister, we need, Mr.

Speaker Sir to…

THE HON. SPEAKER: Ask the question please.

HON. DR. LABODE: I am coming.  We need to extent the application…

THE HON. SPEAKER: Do not come, just ask a question.

HON. DR. LABODE: Hon. Minister, what are you going to do –

[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – My question Mr.

Speaker Sir, is that, can the Minister consider extending the deadline for applications because children in the rural areas are unable to do so?

HON. O. MOYO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  That question was asked by another Member and an answer was given.  We have said, if we can give an extension to our deadline, there is no problem with that.

HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  My question is a reminder to the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development after having asked her two weeks ago.  I am happy that I had liaised with her and she is now ready with an answer.  However, just to refresh her memory, the question deals with the issue of payment of the legacy debt.  If you look at the structure of our billing system with regards to power purchasing, there is an element of legacy debt.  So, the question sought to extract what percentage is legacy debt, which we are paying currently.  Why are we also paying legacy debt when we have been using a prepayment billing system?  Thank you.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER

DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

The question on the legacy debt was started when the prepaid metres were introduced.  This is meant for people who were owing some money to ZESA and have not cleared.  So, that debt was carried over to the post-prepayment installation of the metres.  From whatever amount that the debtors paid, 50% of it would be subtracted to settle the debt which the customers owed to ZESA.  The payment would continue until the debt was cleared.  I think that is what I can say concerning the legacy debt.

HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I am sure the

Hon. Minister did not get me correctly on the onset.  What happened

Hon. Speaker is that, around 2009, we introduced the prepayment

system and certainly people had debts.  What the Hon. Member is speaking to is what then happened around that time.  However, what happened now with the new tariffs is that, if I purchase power for, let us say $100, I would get about 100 units but they have factored in a national legacy debt.  So, everyone of us, every time you go and pay for electricity, you pay a certain amount of legacy debt, which is devoid of my personal consumption which I had already paid for in 2010.  This is a new tariff which has been introduced; it is not more than 6 months ago.  This is the one which I am actually speaking to and not the one which was done earlier.  Everyone is currently paying for the legacy debt.

HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think on that case there was a misunderstanding of the question that he is talking about.  When I got the question I went and interrogated the authorities about this legacy debt and this is what I got, but if it is something different, I will have to go back again and try to find out.  I think if he can write down that question so that the authorities will explain what he wants to know but the legacy debt which I got is what I have explained.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chikwinya, your question is quite involved, I think it would be good that you put it in writing so that you can get a more detailed response to the question.

HON. SACCO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question was directed towards the Minister of Justice but I will direct to the Acting Leader of Government Business.  My question is, what is Government policy in regards to offer letters and A1 permits that are being overruled by the courts and our farmers are being disadvantaged where courts are overruling offer letters and A1 permits without due consultation?

THE HON. SPEAKER: When you say the matter has gone to

court and there is a ruling, there must be a due process.  So, perhaps clarify the due process.

HON. SACCO: My question refers to policy inconsistency between the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, where the Ministry of Lands is the allocating authority of land or A1 Permits and offer letters.  However, these issues are taken to court and a court makes a ruling which reverses an offer letter or A1 Permit which was duly allocated by the Ministry of Lands.  What is

Government policy on ensuring that our farmers are protected from the court process that dispossessing our farmers of their land?

THE HON. SPEAKER:  It is clear now.

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I

hear the Hon. Member’s question.  I am going to take the issue up and find out exactly what is happening.  I thank him for making the observation.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.

SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

RELEASE OF FUNDS FOR CONSTRUCTION OF ROADS BY

ZINARA TO THE CITY OF GWERU

1. HON. CHIBAYA asked the Minister of Transport and

Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the Zimbabwe

National Roads Authority (ZINARA) will release funds to the City of Gweru to enable the local authority to complete construction of the following roads in Mkoba Constituency –

(a)    From Mkoba 7 Bus Stop to Mkoba 15 Turn-Off; and  (b) Mkoba 12 turn-off to Mkoba 17 Turn-off.

THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND

INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. ARCH.

MATIZA):  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I would like to ask for deferment of questions for the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development as the officials are still preparing the answers.  I ask for deferment to next week Tuesday – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible

interjections.] –

  THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order.  While I sympathise with the Hon. Minister, this question was deferred from 13^th November 2019. I would want to encourage Hon. Ministers to be expeditious in preparing the questions.  Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible

interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  We are

deferring questions 1 to 6 to next week.

LIST OF ELDERLY PEOPLE REGISTERED UNDER THE SOCIAL

WELFARE PROGRAMME IN KAMBUZUMA CONSTITUENCY

7. HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House the numbers of elderly people that are registered under the Social Welfare Programme in Kambuzuma Constituency, Wards 14 and 16 and to disaggregate them by name, age, sex and residential addresses.

THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND

SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF MAVIMA):  Thank you Madam

Speaker.  I wish to thank Hon. Madzimure for the question asked.  May I kindly take this opportunity to inform you that the entire Harare Metropolitan Province has a total of 12 thousand households that are currently benefiting under the food deficit mitigation programme.

However, disaggregated data for Kambuzuma District will be available in due course as my office is working on the matter.

HON. CHIKWINYA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order

Hon. Chikwinya?

HON. CHIKWINYA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The fact that

the Minister has partially answered this question, it takes away the question from the Order Paper but the Minister then highlights that he is still working to provide the figures so requested.  The danger now is that the Hon. Member has no recourse rather than to file a fresh question or to base on the trust of the Minister.  What we would have expected as a House is that the Minister was not supposed to respond until he has the full details.  I would therefore propose that the question remains on the Order Paper until it has been asked for.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I hear you Hon. Chikwinya.  The question will remain on the Order Paper until the Minister provides the full answer.

FOOD RATIONS DISTRIBUTED TO SOCIAL WELFARE

QUARTERLY SINCE JANUARY 2019

8. HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House what food rations have been distributed through Social Welfare and quarterly since January, 2019 to date.

THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND

SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF MAVIMA):  Thank you Madam

Speaker.  I wish to thank Hon. Madzimure for the question.  Pertaining to the food rations that have been distributed through Social Welfare and quarterly since January 2019, the grain distribution in Harare Province commenced in March 2019.  In light of this, a total of 4 804.56 ...

HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order

Hon. Madzimure?

HON. MADZIMURE:  Madam Speaker, my questions were specific to Kambuzuma, Wards 14 and 36.  They were not meant for Harare.  So if the Minister has no answers on Kambuzuma then the questions can be deferred.

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  The Hon. Minister is

responding to Question Number 8.  I think Hon. Madzimure, you are a bit lost because you are talking of Question Number 9.

         HON. MADZIMURE:  No, I was specific because my questions had to do with Kambuzuma and I had indicated that very well.  Even on Question Number 7 where it says 14 and 16 – it should be 14 and 36, so

I was specific.  Question Number 8 was actually coming from Question Number 7.

  THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  But Question Number 8 is

not referring to Kambuzuma only.

     HON. MADZIMURE:  That one can be ignored – it is fine.  The

Hon. Minister can respond to Question Number 9.

         HON. MUSHORIWA:  Madam Speaker, if the question is not only referring to Kambuzuma then the Hon. Minister is actually wrong to then speak of Harare because that question is open ended and is for the entire nation.

         So to that extent, if we are going to get interpretation in the manner that the Hon. Chair has ruled then we expect to answer the question province by province, district by district and ward by ward for the entire country.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  We are deferring all

questions up to Question Number 11.  The Hon. Minister will bring the answers next week.

ASPINDALE SUBDIVISION A AND B LOCHNIVAR STANDS

12.   HON. MADZIMURE asked the Minister  of Local

Government and Public Works to explain to the House –

• how the Aspindale subdivision A and B of the Lochinvar Stands 48, 49 and 50 were done considering that the title deeds 1523/61 were with CARRES Limited;
• who the current holder of the title deeds is;
• to confirm or deny whether Marimba Residential Properties solely hold any Title Deeds or Deeds of Transfer No. 3928/96;
• to further elaborate how the Deed Transfer dated 11th June, 1996 was issued on 25^th March, 2003, the absence of relevant documentation from the Marimba Residential Properties Limited;
• to clarify the procedure used to charge ownership in view of the fact that the affidavit used to apply the Deeds of Transfer was amended, a situation which is not legally acceptable;
• to further clarify the circumstances surrounding the remaining extent to Salisbury Park of Lochinvar measuring 80,787 5 hectares registration Number 3934/96 dated 7^th June, 1996 issued on 28^th March, 2003 which has been made reference to in the affidavit that was issued for the application of the Deeds of Transfer 3928/26 Stand No. 48, which is 100.313 4 hectares.
• to confirm or deny whether Marimba Industrial Properties Private Limited or Marimba Residential Properties Private or Limited are registered with the Companies and Deeds Office and if the Minister could shed more light on how the Deeds of Transfer were issued to a non-registered company; and
• assuming the land in question was industrial, to explain what procedures were followed to change it for residential purposes and if the council restoration could be produced.

     THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Sorry Hon. Madzimure, the

Hon. Minister is not available to respond to your question.  We are deferring Question Numbers 12 to 28 because the responsible Minister is not in the House.

    HON. MADZIMURE:  On a point of order Madam Speaker!

Madam Speaker, Section 92 (2) and (3) of the Constitution provides that members of the Cabinet are accountable collectively or individually.

Madam Speaker, this means that for Questions with Notice – if the Ministry has the answers then a Minister or Leader of the House must be favoured with the responses because they are specific and time bound.  We now have a situation where the Order Paper becomes a booklet because Ministers are not coming to Parliament to respond to questions.  Collectively, they are responsible.  Why do Ministers who are unable to attend Parliament not provide responses and then allow the Leader of the House to come and present the responses instead of us saying the Minister who does not pitch up for 12 months will have questions being deferred yet the questions are specific and time bound?

         Why can they not request one of the ministers to come and do it here instead of us waiting for a person who will never come?

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Your point of order is noted

Hon. Madzimure. – [HON. MATANGIRA: Inaudible interjection.] – Order Hon. Matangira! Order Hon. Madzimure. We are deferring

Question Numbers 29 to 31.

IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITY OF EDUCATION OF LEARNERS

IN SILOBELA CONSTITUENCY

32.   HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to inform the House what mechanism the Ministry has put in place to improve the quality of education of learners in the

Silobela Constituency where there are only two substantive headmasters.

        THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY

EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA):  Thank you Madam Speaker.

The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is attending to the issue of personnel who are holding posts in acting capacity and measures are being taken in order to have substantive personnel.  For this reason, all our ten provinces are currently conducting interviews for heads and deputy heads to fill the existing posts including for schools in the Silobela Constituency.

        However …

              THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, Order Hon. Minister,

Hon. Mpofu is not in, so you may …

Hon. M. M. Mpofu having stood up to confirm his presence.

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Alright Hon. Minister, you

may proceed with your response.

        HON. MATHEMA:  However, Silobela Constituency has more

substantive heads than those alluded to by the Hon. Member.  Our records indicate that we have 36 primary schools in Silobela and 14 of them have substantive heads.  The constituency has 12 secondary schools and three of them have substantive heads.  Vacancies for all schools that do not have substantive heads will be filled as soon as interviews are over in the two weeks.  I thank you.

   HON. CHIKWINYA:  Thank you Madam Speaker and thank you

Hon. Minister for that response.

         Hon. Minister, if you may highlight to this House. For how long should one go on acting capacity?  The fact that we have seen personnel  going for more than a year in acting capacity and therefore, creating a legitimate expectation of getting that job on a substantive basis, what is your policy with regards to a person who would have acted for more than a year and their chances of becoming a substantive head?

  HON. MATHEMA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  It is indeed not

fair for anybody to act for an unnecessarily too long period – everybody wants to be substantive.  Indeed, my Ministry is working on that and we will do the best we can so that we reduce as much as possible the numbers of acting personnel. This is what we are currently working on Madam Speaker.  I thank you.

USE OF APPLICATIONS FOR FORM ONE BY GRADE 7

PUPILS

33. HON. MAVENYENGWA asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to explain the Government policy intervention to ensure that every Grade Seven pupil applied for Form One using the application considering that some schools do not have laptops especially in rural areas.

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY

EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA):  Thank you Madam Speaker.

The Ministry is quite aware of the plight of some of our schools especially those that lack connectivity.  The situation is quite common in our rural schools.  We have therefore put in place mechanisms to ensure that parents, guardians or learners who wish to apply for Form One places do so.

Over and above the use of cell phones for those who own them, parents or guardians can take advantage of our Better Schools Programme facilities that are readily available.  These are the same facilities which some of our schools use for Grade Seven e-registration.  I am happy to inform the House than none of our learners have failed to register for Grade 7 on account of failure to have access to the internet.  It is also gratifying to note that ever since we started the Form 1 E-map Registration, no learners have failed to apply to boarding schools of their choice.

         At head office level, we have established a help desk which is managed by Ministry officials to assist guardians or parents who have challenges.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

            HON. KASHIRI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Madam Speaker,

we have a situation of pupils who will be on BEAM in Grade 7.  They go on to Form 1, some of them BEAM does not apply.  We have had dropouts of children who cannot access BEAM at Form 1.  What is the Ministry doing to address that gap?

       HON. MATHEMA:  Madam Speaker, indeed it is true that every

child in Zimbabwe has to go to school because no child is born to live forever with his or her parents.  So, where there are challenges as the Hon. Member says, we do the best we can to advise.  My offices are open Madam Speaker for any Member of the House to come so that we consult, work together but we do the best we can to make sure each child is prepared from as early as possible to be able to live in this fast changing world every day.

          HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  May I

know what the Ministry is doing about children who have got Grade 7 results that are being withheld by the authorities because they have not fully paid their fees?  We do not want these pupils to be disadvantaged in terms of applying on time so that they get to schools of their choice?

HON. MATHEMA: Madam Speaker, we cannot continue with a

situation where pupils cannot access their exam results.  Therefore, the issue of whatever the reasons why the exams are not released, maybe it is because the parents or guardians have not paid.  In my opinion every child must access his or her exam results and the issue should remain between the parents or guardians and the schools.  Thank you.

HON. KARENYI:  Thank you Madam Speaker, my

supplementary question to the Minister is what is the Ministry doing to those schools who are taking children with five units only.  Some parents are saying they are applying but they cannot get the Form 1 places.  What is the policy regarding schools who are refusing to take children with six units and upwards?

HON. MATHEMA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to thank

the Hon. Member for that question.  It is definitely unfair that children should not proceed with their education because their units may not be as good as a particular school wants them.  It is an issue Madam Speaker that I am going to look into and find out exactly what is taking place.  It is unfair for a child in Zimbabwe not to proceed to Form 1.  I thank you.

HON. CHIKWINYA:  I rise on a point of privilege Madam Speaker.  My point of privilege arises at an opportunity whereby we are discussing Grade 7 pupils’ application and results.  Therefore, I would request, through  you Madam Chair, that may the Hon. Minister bring to this House the results for the 2019 Grade 7 performance broken down- province by province so that at least Parliament can interrogate the performance levels of our education system.  Thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I hear you Hon. Chikwinya,

you can submit your question as a written question so that the Minister will bring the answer.

HON. CHIKWINYA: Madam Speaker, it is not actually a question in terms of policy but this has always been the tradition that once Grade 7, ‘O’  and ‘A’ level results are out the Minister provides

Parliament with the same and then Parliament interrogates them so that we quickly respond to either the failure or the pass rate.  I am simply asking you for us to be able to uphold Parliamentary practice in terms of legislative oversight.  I am sure the Minister may actually be able to indulge on that.

THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY

EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA):  Thank you Madam Speaker.

Yes, the Grade 7 results are already out, we are in the middle of analysing them province by province.  If the august House wants me to come and give a statement on the issue, broken down results and statistics, I am prepared to inform the august House.  Thank you.

POLICY ON SWITCHING OFF OF LIGHTS IN GOVERNMENT

OFFICES

34.   HON. TSUURA asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House on the Government Policy  regarding switching off of lights in Government offices after working hours in view of power shortages experienced countrywide.

        THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND

POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Madam

Speaker.  I would like to firstly thank the Hon. Member for the question.  Surely, the country is facing critical power shortages.  To the fact in question, my Ministry has since written to all Ministries emphasising on the need to save energy and switching off the lights after hours.

         As a Demand Side Management, (DSM) strategy the Government is encouraging the use of occupancy census and related gadgets to save power.   All institutions are encouraged to retrofit inefficient lighting and use efficient lighting.  A good example is at our offices (Joyn Boyne Building) which were retrofitted with energy efficiency lighting (LEDs) and other DSM strategies, including switching off of lights which are being demonstrated.  We expect other Government Ministries or complexes to follow suit and that will go a long way in motivating the rest of public to implement the DSM strategies like the one in question.

Awareness exercises are currently going through the media by the

Zimbabwe Electricity Transmission (ZETDC) to that effect.

         Madam Speaker, the House should take note that DSM is one of the critical tools that can be used to significantly save energy. The

Ministry is encouraging all citizens to be energy savers. Currently, the

Ministry in partnership with various organisations is developing Minimum Performance Standards and practices for electrical equipment and looking forward to an Energy Efficiency Policy in 2020. That policy will address all the DSM strategies in totality.

MEASURES TO CONTROL SALE OF GOODS IN FOREIGN

CURRENCY

35. HON. TSUURA asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to apprise the House on measures being taken to control the sale of goods in foreign currency by the foreign owned business entities.

                     THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): The country made deliberate

and gradual steps to migrate from the multi currency system towards the use of the mono currency in the form of ZW$. This process started by the separation nostro foreign currency accounts and RTGS accounts in September 2018. This was done in order to ensure that the correct balances of local and foreign currency are established and accounted for. In order to facilitate foreign currency trading through authorised and official channels and to facilitate international payments, the RBZ introduced the interbank foreign currency trading on 22 February 2019 through the willing buyer willing seller concept. This was followed by the introduction of the RBZ regulation Statutory Instrument  142 of 2019 on 24 June 2019 which effectively removed the multi currency system and made the ZW$ the sole currency for legal tender purposes.

         On 27 September 2019, Statutory Instrument 149 was buttressed by the introduction of the exchange control regulations Statutory Instrument 212 of 2019 which defined domestic transactions and criminalised the use of any currency other than the ZW$ for domestic transactions. Further to Statutory Instrument 212 of 2019 defined transactions excluded from the scope of domestic transactions and such transactions shall be continued to be settled in foreign currency by guests of the state for goods and services in Zimbabwe.

         In order to ensure compliance with the exclusive use of the ZW$ for domestic transactions, Statutory Instrument 212 of 2019 further introduced civil penalties for its contravention. The civil penalties are further amplified in Presidential Powers Regulations and Statutory Instrument 212 and 213 of 2019. The civil penalties are a tool to whip errant market players into line. Further to this, there has been a deliberate move by RBZ to licence bureau-de-change so that individuals in possession of free funds are conveniently allowed to convert the foreign currency through selling at bureau-de-change.

         All the above measure were meant to ensure that the country uses the ZW$ for local transactions. It is important to highlight that the move from multi currency to mono currency is not a process which is easy and the currency is going through a transactional phase where there are pockets of non compliance market players. Where there are identified violations corrective actions are being taken by the RBZ and law enforcement agencies.

       *HON. MADZIMURE: My supplementary question to the

Minister is that Government has outlawed the use of US dollars in the payment of goods and services but there are companies like Chicken Inn which are trading using the American dollar. Chicken Inn sells chicken and chips which are produced locally here in Zimbabwe. There are no raw materials which are imported from outside the country but Government is allowing them to trade in American dollars. In view of this development, how is Government going to enforce the use of mono currency when we have such companies that are trading in American dollar?

  *HON. CHIDUWA: When the policy was mooted, there were

sectors that were classified under tourism and were allowed to trade in US dollars. So if they are classified under tourism they are allowed to charge in forex.

              Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE HON DEPUTY

SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT STATUS OF HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEM

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.

1. O. MOYO): Madam Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me an opportunity to present the status of health care delivery in the country as at present. Allow me, Madam Speaker, to first give a background of the situation prior to the new Government taking office.  The following problems were perennial and they still persist albeit an improvement in some quarters.

• Shortfall of medicines and surgical.
• Shortage of equipment.
• Poor infrastructure.
• Shortage of manpower.
• Industrial action by health care workers.

From inception, Government is seized with these problems and has been working tirelessly to try and address them.  It must be acknowledged, Madam Speaker, that these problems have existed for a number of decades and their solution is not going to be an overnight thing.

Coming to the current situation, Madam Speaker, I want to start by highlighting the most visible and talked about challenge currently faced by the Ministry and Government.  It is no secret, Madam Speaker, that the withdrawal of labour by initially our junior doctors and subsequently joined by senior doctors has had a negative impact on the health delivery system.  In this situation, our major referral institutions, the central hospitals are the most affected as they are operating below capacity with

Chitungwiza Central Hospital being the only one operating at above 39% capacity.

It is therefore no doubt that most of our patients are having to go elsewhere and seek assistance elsewhere and they cannot go to the private hospitals, all of them, where exorbitant prices are charged.  There is minimal health care provision in our public health institutions being rendered by the various health care workers who themselves did not participate in the withdrawal of labour as with the doctors.

Government is thankful to these other workers including those doctors who are still offering these services.

Reasons for the withdrawal of labour by doctors

The main reason of withdrawal of labour as claimed by some doctors is financial incapacitation while other problems such as inadequate availability of medicines and equipment are cited.  They claim that the financial incapacitation is a deal breaker if it is solved. 

The issue to improve the conditions of service for Government employees is not done per line Ministry but rather the whole civil service.  To that effect, Government has awarded cost of living adjustments to its employees including health workers three times.

Over and above the cost of living adjustment awarded to all civil servants, Government has increased health specific allowances for health workers by 30%, 60% and then by 100%.  This however though welcomed by all other health workers, doctors refuse to take up the offer as they claim that it is still inadequate.

Government engaged striking doctors to report for work and allow dialogue to continue without risking the lives of the patients.  Madam Speaker, we are not denying the existence of challenges in health care delivery, but it is also important to put it on record that the Government has made an effort irrespective of shortage of foreign currency to buy some basic essential tools.

The security sector has also seconded their doctors to offer services in the five central and provincial hospitals.

Provincial health services delivery status

Health care service delivery system in our provinces is better as compared to our central hospitals.  The challenge being experienced is that of accessibility due to high costs of travel.  There are a few provinces where doctors have withdrawn labour.  Government is working to ensure that minimum service delivery is made available through the deployment of clinical officers who are stationed in the provinces.

Ongoing efforts to normalise the situation

There are ongoing efforts to normalise the situation.  The labour courts ruled the incapacitation by the doctors as unlawful.  It went further to order that the doctors go back to their work within two days which if they did not, would allow for disciplinary action.  Even after that, Government continued encouraging the doctors to come back to work but they did not.  There was no alternative but to start the disciplinary action.

Disciplinary hearings for the doctors

• 508 disciplinary cases on doctors that have not been coming to work have so far been heard of which 498 were found guilty.
• 448 doctors have been discharged from service and since then, an additional 13 doctors were found guilty and discharged. Penalties were mated on all of them making a cumulative total of 448 discharged doctors.
• In addition to the 508 disciplinary cases heard by 25^th November, an additional 43 doctors from the provinces are waiting hearing. Serving of charge letters for 57 senior doctors at central hospitals commenced on 25^th November, 2019.

Recruitment of doctors

The Ministry of Health and Child Care will publish an advert in the press of all the posts that have become vacant as a result of the disciplinary processes before the end of this week.  Contracts of employment have been reviewed to cover Government’s interest and better personnel control.

Engagement of partners including the Global Fund

A proposal for an upward review of health worker retention allowance for a period of two years will be further discussed at a high level technical dialogue with donors on 29^th November 2019.

The World Bank is also looking at giving assistance to health care personnel.

Medicines and medical sundries

The procurement processes are proceeding and Treasury has availed some foreign currency, although it is not enough.

Institutional accommodation

The Ministry is currently revisiting the allocation of institutional accommodation and making efforts to secure additional off site accommodation in the short term.  To this effect, Government is in discussion with NSSA for use of their flats which are in Eastlea.

The construction of institutional accommodation for health workers in the medium to long term is proceeding through the Ministry of National Housing.

Harare City Council Situation

Service provision

• All the 17 City Council doctors have been attending to duty.
• An average of 95 out of an expected 179 nurses turned up for duty at 6 Municipal Clinics as of 25^th November, 2019 and an average of 70 out of an expected 138 nurses on 20^th November and an average of 99 out of 179 on 26^th
• Services within the Harare City health facilities remains rationalised to six polyclinics – Mabvuku, Hatcliffe, Kuwadzana, Mufakose, Hatfield and Edith Opperman and one hospital with the majority of services being concentrated to Outpatients Department. An audit of Harare City Health delivery situation was done. Most workers remain on strike with a skeleton staff found at the clinics. Most clinics remain closed including maternity wards thereby increasing home based deliveries.

         The Ministry of Health and Child Care, working in conjunction with Harare City Council Health Department has enabled the opening of Edith Opperman Clinic and this has eased the problem of home based deliveries. Staff from Harare Hospital has been seconded to open Edith Opperman Maternity Clinic. They will be working with three sisters in charge withdrawn from other city council clinics. The clinic is open for 24 hours. This has seen a rapid move of patients from the traditional midwife in Mbare to the functional Edith Opperman Clinic.

        Medical Equipment

One of the Ministry’s key objectives is to achieve patient satisfaction by providing efficient and effective diagnosis and treatment of patients through the availability of appropriate and functional medical equipment. Our health facilities are faced with a serious shortage of critical medical equipment as a result of failure to provide a replacement budget over the years. Most of the equipment is now obsolete and others require major service and support with consumables, expendables and spares. Although Government is making considerable effort to address the situation by making substantial investment in new health care technology, there is need to focus even more on ways to sustain the existing equipment.

        Identified Gaps

 Gap analysis of medical equipment for critical departments in

Central Hospitals such as Theatres, Intensive Care Units (ICU), High Dependant Units (HDU), Maternity, Neonatal Units (NNU, Paeds Units, Radiology and Radiotherapy requires at least US$35 million.

Requirement for provincial and district hospitals attracts a further US$18 million.

        Strategies and Interventions

• Procure medical equipment using the GOZ and Health Levy Account funds. The Ministry of Finance has provided US$1 million towards the purchase of some equipment. The Ministry through partners has also provided US$3.5 million worth of equipment.
• Capacitate equipment management systems within the Ministry and engage participation of the private sector through outsourcing.

        Activities and Implementation Plan

We have received and commissioned medical equipment for our 5 Central Hospitals procured from India under a special initiative. We have also received medical equipment as a donation by the Government of the United Arab Emirates and this has benefited mostly Harare Central Hospital. More equipment is expected under the same UAE

initiative.

• The tenders of equipment worth US$11.5 million for high impact intervention have been concluded and finalised at

Natpharm and are awaiting allocation of foreign currency.  

• Tenders are being processed for the remaining balance of equipment for both Central and Provincial Hospitals and this should be concluded within the next financial year.
• We are finalising an equipment management policy framework to strengthen the equipments management capabilities in the MoHCC. The Ministry outsourced service contracts for 55 Autoclave machines, 11 X-Ray machines, and laboratory machines. We are working on a comprehensive service contract for our radiotherapy equipment which requires of US$2 million and other subcontracts for ICU life support and anesthetic equipment.

        HIV/AIDS Updates

Currently the Ministry has enough first line medicines for Art and we are issuing three months supplies to each patient. Second line medicines are a challenge because there is a global shortage on some of them. Efforts have been initiated to order from the supplies that have the stock. Third line medicines are available and are being issued without any limitations for stable patients.

        Government Long-Term Commitment and Leadership  Despite the current economic challenges, the Government of Zimbabwe is committed to improving the conditions of service for all health care workers.

• Over the past few years, Government has made various attempts to cushion all civil servants with general and sector specific allowances such as specific allowances.
• However, the current harsh economic environment has presented a major challenge to sustaining the cushion effect of these allowance increments.
• Government is committed to continuously undertaking review and evaluation of various incentives in line with its ability to meet commitments.

-Bipartite negotiation forums

-Other discussions and engagements  

-Health Institution engaging with their workers.  

• Outcome of the Bipartite Negotiations (Monetary incentives):

-COLA (30%; 60% increases)

-Health specific allowances increased by 100%

-Bonus reinstated

• Outcome of the Bipartite and Other Negotiations (non-Monetary):

-Car loan scheme with duty free component

-Housing loan scheme

-Fuel provision of Health Institutions

-Meals and refreshments at work place

-ZUPCO/Public Service bus service – Transport to work         Provision of Tools of Trade:

-Improved availability of medicines and sundries  

-New Board with a strong Board Chair

-Medicines availability stable  

-Sourcing of new equipment and putting in place maintenance contracts for existing equipment is in progress.  

-Private Public Partnerships being vigorously pursued.

I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.

  HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, my clarification from the

Minister is that we already have a shortage of doctors and from the

Minister’s figures, they have actually fired 90% of the doctors. Can the Minister clarify if –[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections]- Iwe uri murungu ini ndiri munhu mutema, chienda nechirungu chako. Can the Minister clarify out of the 90% and above of doctors that he has fired, what mitigatory measures are in place considering that our people are dying like flies in hospitals?  Did he look into the needs of the people? He has to clarify what mitigatory measures are in place and he has to make sure that health provision is made available.

        HON. DR. O. MOYO: Madam Speaker...

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, let them ask

maybe 4 to 5 questions then you respond.

      HON. KWARAMBA: I might be seen to be repeating what my

other friend said but it is more or less a question to say if I heard you well Hon. Minister, you said 448 doctors were fired and 13 were found guilty.  My question Hon. Minister is, I would like to know the way forward since hospitals are severely crippled.  I thank you.

    HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My point of

clarification is to do with the good samaritan which the Minister is talking about, that is a lady who is doing the service in Mbare.  Did the Minister take into consideration the issue of water, health hazards in a nutshell?  Some women have complications and others even lose babies during birth.  Are we now resorting to the old system where ana mbuya nyamukuta will deliver babies?  I just want him to tell this august House whether he has done his homework well and whether we are resorting to the old system whereby we are not providing service in the hospital and rather the mbuya nyamukutas are now taking over.

         Secondly, I hear he is talking about the loan schemes.  How are these doctors and nurses going to pay back the loans because right now they cannot afford even to buy their meals or to pay for their bus fares? The other issue is - are we now saying the doctors must go and get transport from ZUPCO because in cases of emergency, that doctor is required to rush to the hospital to save life? Are we now saying that our doctors must use public transport?  When I was young I used to know that doctors own cars or are supposed to have cars to make their work easy.  I thank you.

    HON. DR. LABODE: Madam Speaker, I want to know from the

Minister if he has taken time to calculate the number of people who have died because doctors were not on ground.   It is important because this is the first time immemorial that doctors have been fired.  The Minister has actually gotten a first record in his life.   By talking about ZUPCO you demean a profession but most importantly, one needs to sit down and calculate the cost of training a doctor.  I went to Tanzania, I found doctors who were five months on strike; Magufuli never fired them because he knows the cost of training one doctor.  So, I really believe the negotiations were like in a military camp.  This is a labour dispute; people should have continued talking until we get somewhere.  We know that permanent secretaries are earning RTGS15 000, why do doctors not also earn the same?  Yes, we should actually look at that, we cannot sit here and think Global Fund will give us this money.  I am telling you I will come back here a year later; there is no donor who will pay our workers. Even the doctors, before their allowance was US$200.  There is no donor who will pay us especially knowing what we are doing. I thank you.

        HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to thank

the Minister for the presentation on the state of health in Zimbabwe.  We have heard of the fired and those that still have pending disciplinary action.  I wanted to find out Madam Speaker, how many doctors are we talking of, of the 448 plus 13? What is the total number in terms of the doctors?  On negotiations, it has taken long in terms of negotiations and I would want to believe if Government was sincere enough in terms of negotiations, they would have honestly reached an agreement.  I want to find out from the Minister; we heard rumours that Government was secretly recruiting doctors from outside.  If so, how much would it cost the Government in terms of paying already existing doctors than actually hiring new doctors who would require plane tickets, accommodation and more money in terms of our own trained doctors? I did not hear the Minister talk about vehicles, I am sorry if he mentioned it quietly in terms of ambulances when one falls sick and they are in urgent need of transport. Due to lack of fuel, at the moment the only reliable transport would be an ambulance. How many ambulances are also part of the negotiations in terms of the United Arab Emirates pending the discussion that the Minister has also mentioned about?

         He has mentioned 39% in terms of Chitungwiza being in operation but I thought the Minister would actually bring a whole list of hospitals that are operational and not operational so that we will be able to compare in provinces and also in the urban areas because everyone else is affected in terms of health.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

          HON. MUSHAYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank

the Minister for his Ministerial Statement.  My first point of clarity Hon. Speaker is that the Minister has told us that there are 448 doctors that have been discharged.  What he is not making an indication to us is what the gap was first before we even went on to fire these doctors.

Secondly, what the Minister has not told us is the patient to doctor ratio. How are we going to be able to cover that given the fact that it takes us 7 years to train only one doctor?

         On the third issue Madam Speaker, I also want clarity in terms of what is it that we are doing to make sure that instead of us focusing on doing disciplinary hearings we focus on negotiations to make sure that we get the doctors back to the hospitals and we make sure that as Government we are not presiding over a genocide because currently people are dying and are suffering.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Sikhala.

THE MINISTER O FHEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.

1. O. MOYO): Madam Speaker Ma’am, the first question regarding the numbers, Hon. Madzimure indicated 90% as having been fired –

[HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:   Order, order.  May the

Minister be heard in silence please?

HON. DR. O. MOYO: It is not that much, it is less than that.  I am sorry to say I do not have the exact figure but it is less than that.

Then, you are asking whether ...

HON. SIKHALA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  The Minister is chewing his words, we want to hear him loudly.  He must speak aloud so that we hear him.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: But you are also making

noise, order.

HON. SIKHALA: Speak aloud.

HON. DR. O. MOYO:  Madam Speaker Ma’am, I also want to

indicate that nobody is above the law and the doctors defied the court orders.  What happened was that the labour court ruled the incapacitation/the industrial action as being unlawful and it was the doctors who decided not to attend to work after two days which they had been given.  So, the people who caused the problem are the people who were not at work and the people who had not come to work.  These are people especially doctors who live within the hospital grounds.  They should have been attending to the patients but they did not attend to the patients.  They were not incapacitated in terms of transport, they were within a walking distance to the patients and they neglected their duty by not attending to the patients.  That is why we ended up in that type of situation.   I am particularly concerned about those doctors who were living within the institutional accommodation who did not attend to the patients.   That is why the numbers continue to increase and that is where we start with the problem.

On the second issue, on the lady from Mbare on the issues regarding cleanliness/hygiene around the working area; yes, it was an emergency situation and that is why we quickly moved and opened

Edith Opperman Maternity Clinic in order to avoid that situation and

that is a thing of the past. That is something that has been overcome already.

An Hon. Member asked about the car loans schemes.  Yes, we are planning to ensure that in the next budget. We got a budget of $6.4 billion and we are looking at the possibility of improving the transport system for our doctors so that they can be able to independently travel from work to the health institutions if they are not living within.  But, the main issue when we talk about the ZUPCOs, this is a temporary issue with regards to those doctors who were trying to create accommodation outside the health institutions.  So that will be improved in time and with the budget improvement as we saw.

Hon. Labode asked about the number of patients who have died, yes the number of patients who died was as a result of the doctors who stayed away.  – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

I am not going to repeat again.  The doctors have signed a hippocratic oath and they should have been staying at their places of work. Those who are staying at the places of work should have been attending to their patients.  That, we cannot doubt and at the same time they defied the labour laws which were passed by this august House.  They went against the laws of this very august House.  So, we cannot say anybody is above the law.  There is no one who is above the law especially when it comes to people dying, that is not the way it is done.

Then on the issue of the doctors recruiting from outside, Hon.

Mpariwa’s question.   There will always be arrangements within our system to be able to recruit through our Government to Government arrangements and this happens at the end of each year and that is what is happening.  We have a contract with our outside partners and that will always happen, like for instance right now we have the Cuban doctors, we have the Chinese doctors and so those are on-going contractual Government to Government arrangements.

On the issue regarding negotiations via disciplinary hearing, definitely that is what we have been doing.  We have been calling for meetings.  I personally have been having meetings with the senior doctors.  I have been having meetings with the junior doctors and these meetings have been actually very fruitful and that is why we started.  Initially there was no discussion and not because they were being kept away through some other subversive actions; however, we managed to get to talking.  So, what is very critical at the moment is the fact that the doctors – we have advised everyone that there will be adverts in the paper.  Those adverts will allow for anyone who is qualified and registered to be able to apply for a job. There is absolutely no way that we would say we want everyone to go away.  What we want to happen is that the due processes must be followed.  The Labour Court ruled and gave an instruction through the Attorney General’s Office.  That is where the law is going through and we as a Ministry of Health and Child Care, we have now gone forward and we are now in the recruitment exercise.  So there is nothing lost.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF PROVISIONS OF STANDING ORDER NOS. 51,

62 (2), 135, 136 AND 139.

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND

PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam

Speaker…

         After the Minister of Justice had risen to present Notice of Motion No. 1, Hon. Members on the left side of the House rose in protest since they wanted to ask questions to the Minister of Health and Child Care pertaining to the Ministerial Statement he had just presented..

       The Minister of Health and Child Care walked out.

         Hon. Members on the left side of the House continued protesting that the Minister of Health and Child Care should come back and address their questions.   

- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –

         THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order, order, Hon. Members take your seats. – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible

interjections.] –

        Hon. Members having continued to behave in a disorderly manner,

THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY

AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), adjourned the House at Twenty Two

Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.