NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 11 APRIL 2024 VOL 50 NO 45

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 11^th April, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)

     HON. HADEBE: I am rising on a point of privilege Madam Speaker. I wanted to remind the House that Parliament Business starts at 2.05 p.m. Next time if anyone comes late, we will chase them away. Thank you very much.

      THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Member for reminding us. Unfortunately, we had a bit of a crisis because our generator is not working well and we do not have ZESA. So, they are trying to fix the generator…

Hon. Hadebe, I am advised that the time for sitting is 2.15 p.m. and so, we are on point although we had some delays because of the generator.  My apologies Hon. Members, we were supposed to have a break because they wanted to sort the generator.  I am advised that they have sorted it and now we can proceed with the Business of the Day.

MOTION

 LAW FOR THE PROVISION OF LAND TENURE SECURITY

First order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need to enact a law providing security of tenure to all the land, including communal land.

Question again proposed.

HON. MHETU: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker! I think, they were supposed to have time allocated for points of national interest.  

THE. ACTING SPEAKER: Not Today Hon. Member. – [HON. MHETU: Why, today is a Thursday?] – Hon. Member, not today. – [HON. MHETU: But we have been raising points of national interests on Tuesdays and Thursdays.] – Yes, but not today Hon. Member. – [HON. MHETU: For what reason Madam Speaker?] – Order Hon. Member, the Chair has ruled, there are no points of privileges today Hon. Member. – [HON. MHETU: Madam Speaker …] Order Hon. Member, order! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order Hon. Members.

HON. NDUDZO: Thank you Madam Speaker and good afternoon to you.

THE. ACTING SPEAKER: Good afternoon, Hon. Member.

HON. NDUDZO: I wish to thank the Hon. Member who raised a motion on the very important subject of land tenure…

THE. ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Ndudzo. Hon. Member on my left, whatever you are saying there nce, this is not right. Stop it, we want to proceed with the business of the day.  I do not want to mention you, let us have order.  You may proceed Hon. Ndudzo

HON. NDUDZO: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Land is an extremely sensitive and emotional issue which at all times, requires slow, cautious and meticulous treatment and consideration.  You will note Madam Speaker that all historians concur on one point that, of all wars that have been fought since the beginning of time to date, the central point of disputation has always been on the subject of control of land.  There has not been a war that has been fought in the world where land and control of land was not a central issue.  I therefore, wish to first deal with two misconceptions that are inherent in the motion, as it was presented, before I make my further submissions.  

The first misconception inherent in the motion is the conflation and convolution of communal and agricultural land.  The two are distinctly separate and in my view, it would seem the motion is wrongly premised on an assumption that the laws and principles that are applicable to agricultural land in terms of the leasehold resettlement scheme is the same with land that is gazetted and which we regard as communal land.

The second misconception arising from the motion is also a misapprehension or misunderstanding of the meaning of land tenure.  It seems clear that there is an assumption that land tenure is a synonym of title deeds which are issued in terms of the Deeds Registry Act and that is not correct.  Sociologically, land tenure simply refers to the relationship between people and the land.  The aspects of control, access, allocation, distribution, reallocation, re- arrangements and whatever plans that may be put in place in a particular territory in respect of land, the systems that are put in place will tell us the land tenure that exists. So, the law simply provides the legal framework upon which the relationship between a particular people and land is defined.  

So, to get started Madam Speaker, so that I will be able to narrow down my debate to the aspect of communal land, there exists four land tenure systems in Zimbabwe.   The first one is the freehold which is also the private land.  We have freehold title in most urban areas where people have title deeds and they privately own land.  We also have freehold title on some farms where people have title deeds for their farms.  

Then the second form of land tenure that exists in Zimbabwe is what we call State land.  This would refer to land such as land allocated to the Parks and Wildlife Authority, such as the land we have in Hwange, and Gonarezhou that is wholly owned by the State and  is designated for a particular purpose, the same with gazetted forestry land - that is the second genre of land tenure that we have in Zimbabwe.  

Thirdly, we have the leasehold tenure system that refers largely to gazzeted State land under the A1, A2 model schemes.  This is land which was formally owned by the colonisers that has been recovered by the natives of this land and is being redistributed by the Government of the people of Zimbabwe - that is a separate form of land tenure.

Lastly, we have land that we refer to as communal land.  Globally, it is known as ancestral land, the land which one would say, I inherited this land from my fore-fathers who also inherited it from their fore-fathers.  So, when we speak of land tenure, we must be very clear on what we speak of.  

Madam Speaker, you will note that before Zimbabwe was colonised, all the land within the territory presently called Zimbabwe was communally owned by the people of Zimbabwe under the custodianship of their chiefs.  No one had a title deed, no one had a lease, no one had a permit, no one had a document but there was no doubt on any day that the people wholly owned their land and they had full and unfettered rights to that land.

      You will note that on 15^th November 1884, 14 European powers together with the United States of America, convened at a conference in Berlin and set in motion what has become to be known as the scramble for Africa.  Shockingly, the European powers in their arrogance, had the merit to sit in some conference in Germany to divide and apportion for themselves land which wholly belonged to Africans and which land was on a separate continent where you had to cross oceans to be able to access that land.

      The present boundaries of Africa, as we have them when people say Zimbabwe is separated from South Africa by the Limpopo River, and Zimbabwe is separated from Zambia by the Zambezi River, are all artificial creations of the Berlin Conference of 1884 which were added in 1885.

 You will note, Madam Speaker, consequent to the shenanigans that had been commenced at Berlin, on the 30^th of October 1888, Charles Rudd and his other two accomplices acting for and on behalf of Cecil John Rhodes, fraudulently obtained a concession from King Lobengula in terms of which they purported to arrogate to themselves exclusive rights to prospect and to own all minerals within the territory of Zimbabwe.  Their real intention was clearly to utilise that concession to colonise the great people of Zimbabwe.

 That having been done, you will notice that in 1889, the Boer Edwardo Lippert also acquired what was called the Lippert Concession which was intended to grant him rights to parcel out farming land in Mashonaland.  We know that Lippert sold his concession to Cecil John Rhodes and armed with the two concessions, John Rhodes was able to convince the crown in England for him to be granted a royal charter.

  On 6 May 1890, a very sad chapter commenced when the British South African Company, with its two contingents of the Pioneer Column and the British South Africa Police, set off on a mission to subjugate colonise, and steal the land of the natives of this country.  

We are all aware that the dispossession of our land was a forcible exercise that was strongly resisted by the natives of this land in the first Chimurenga wars.  The first one was from 1893 to 1894 and the second one from 1896 to 1897.  There was never any voluntary or conceptual giving up of our land.  Blood was shed, and kings were executed with people defending their land and territory so that they could perpetuate the land tenure system that they had been accustomed to.

We are aware that through the provisions of the Matabeleland Order and Council of 1894, the first court of Southern Rhodesia was established to resolve land disputes.  The judge who set in that court was an employee of the British South African Company.  All the orders and judgments that were being made were manifestly against the wishes of the locals and were subsequently supported by the native reserve Order and Counsel of 1898 which was the first piece of legislation in Southern Rhodesia after the conquest of the locals where land was being parceled, heavily skewed in favour of the colonial contingent of the Europeans.

We know that by 1900, the Land Occupation Conditions Act was enacted to further entrench the rights of the colonial invaders.  We know that all over Europe, adverts were made inviting Europeans to come and be part of the occupation of Rhodesia and the privy council in the United Kingdom in 1919 in the case of Rhodesia, made a ruling justifying the colonisation of Zimbabwe based on the Royal Charter, the Rudd Concession and the Lippert Concession.  This paved the way for the most draconian piece of legislation that has ever been promulgated in this territory in 1930 known as the Land Apportionment Act.  The Land Apportionment Act reserved the most fertile, the best land of this country to the Europeans in a clear racial segregatory manner.  A very small population of occupiers was allocated the greater portion of the land.  The rest of our people were confined to native reserves on rocky, infertile, and arid pieces of land.

The arrogance of the colonial legislature in 1930 did not end with the Land Apportionment Act.  When there were cries all over the country because people were now being driven out of their ancestral land, what was the response of the colonial government?  They passed what they called the native purchase areas of 1930.  They said if you are a native and you also want to own a good piece of land, you can go and buy it but who had the means, who had the money, and who could be subjugated to the double jeopardy of losing your ancestral land and at the same time being asked to pay for it?

The complaints continued as the infractions and invasion continued and in 1951, the colonial Government passed what it called the Native Land Husbandry Act. They said the reasons why you were complaining was because you were not practicing good agricultural methods and means and that some of you were keeping too many cattle on a small piece of land.  So, we know that the Native Land Husbandry Act of 1951 was an instrument that was used to steal millions of cattle.  People lost their livestock because they had to pave way for the colonial masters.  That was a very clear act of primitive accumulation because the process of primitive accumulation is by nature, a process where force is ruthlessly used.  The European powers all over the world, post the Berlin Conference were in a contest of ruthlessness.  We know that in the Americas, the natives were subjected to even worse processes of extermination, which is why if you go to South America today, you will find Caucasian people of Spanish and Portuguese origin and because the origins of that land, the natives of those lands were wiped away.  If you go to the United States of America, you will struggle to come across the natives who are the Red Indians.  All these acts were meant to steal and protect the colonisers from the vengeance that would obviously follow from the native upon losing their land.

      The Communal Land Act we have presently, which was last amended in 1982, is simply a successor in title to the Tribal Trust Land Act of 1965, where whilst the rights had been duly accorded for title and rights and other entitlements because if you were part of the colonial contingent, you were not only titled to land, but you would be given title for that land, but then you would also be assisted by the State with capital and resources to make sure that you are able to be productive.  The Africans on the other hand were stripped of all rights and title and were left marooned in rocky places where they could be moved any time.  This is why the land was called reserve.  It was reserved for further appropriation and redistribution as and when the colonial Government would deem it necessary to do so.

      Therefore, you will note that the central issue in the execution and prosecution of the Second Chimurenga war was the reclamation of ancestral land, the reclamation of land by the locals.  All the other issues were red herrings.  At the epicentre of the liberation war was the issue of land where the locals were seeking to be restored their precolonial rights to full and unfettered control and access of their land.

      At the Lancaster House, there were so many other things that were discussed, but the sticking issue became land tenure.  So many weeks and months were spent in negotiation because the colonial masters even after they had been defeated, were adamant that there ought not to be land appropriation.  As a result, we underwent a very painful period of 10 years where the Government of Zimbabwe could only acquire land through a willing seller and willing buyer method.

     All the undertakings that had been made at Lancaster by the colonial masters were all not fulfilled particularly when Tony Blair became the Prime Minister of Britain and in 1997, he was very categoric.

     THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Ndudzo.  Hon. Members on my left, please let us have order.  On my left, Hon. Member Order!

     HON. NDUDZO:  In 1997 the British refused – [HON. MEMEBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

     Power outage.

      THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, order please!  Let us have order!  Hon. Members be quiet.  Let us be patient Hon. Members, they are sorting out the ZESA challenge.  The generator will be on very soon.  Let us be patient.

Power restored.

     THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members!  Please proceed Hon. Ndudzo, but you are left with only three minutes.

     HON. MUGWADI:  I move that the Hon. Member’s time be extended by 10 minutes.

     HON. MUSHIPE:  I second.

      THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.   Hon. Mugwadi, you said you are requesting to extend with how many minutes?

HON. MUGWADI:  In fact, if I had your honour, Madam Speaker 15 minutes.

HON. MUSHIPE:  I second.

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  I can only allow five minutes – [AN HON. MEMBER:  We have objected.] – According to the standing rules he is allowed.

      HON. KARENYI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  I think this is an opportunity…

     THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Karenyi.  I think I have heard your point.  Your objection is sustained - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Mavunga.  – [HON. NDUDZO: Madam Speaker, you had already made a ruling that I was left with three minutes.  That ruling still stands.] -. Okay, you can proceed Hon. Ndudzo.

      HON. NDUDZO: I am indebted Madam Speaker.  It was in 1997, when Tony Blair was very categoric in his rejection of the colonial obligation to compensate Zimbabweans for the land as has been undertaken by its predecessors at Lancaster.  You will note that when it became very clear that the locals of this country were so keen on the recovery of their land, a series of events were set in motion by the beneficiaries of the colonial festive.  You are aware that the Westminster Foundation in 1998 began to fund subversive individuals to – [ HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]– to fund neo-liberal political parties with the sole intention of derailing land reform.  You are aware that in 1998…

      THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Ndudzo.  Order Hon. Members.  There is a Member on my left side who is chewing a gum and is making a lot of noise. Please be quiet, I would ask you to go out, throw away your chewing gum. We are not allowed to eat in the House.  I do not want to mention your name, you know yourself.  Please do so.  You may proceed Hon. Ndudzo.

      HON. NDUDZO:  Madam Speaker, a lot happened and you are aware that in 1998/1999, we had a Constitutional Commission and the central issue in that whole constitutional process was the land clause, which culminated into a referendum in 2000.  You are aware that a lot of money was spend by neo-colonial forces to make sure that the referendum would not allow the people of Zimbabwe to reclaim their land without compensation.  It is at that juncture that my people whom I represent, the great people of Svosve – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear,] – became so fed up with the shenanigans of the colonisers and their surrogates and took it upon themselves to reclaim their land, which they had owned for centuries.  That is what set in motion the Land Reform Programme.

      HON. BAJILA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  At 1456 hours, you granted Hon. Ndudzo three minutes to round up his speech.  Now the time is 1459 hours.  I thank you.

     THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Bajila, I am being assisted by Clerks-at-the Table, not you Hon. Members.  You can proceed Hon. Ndudzo.  

      HON. NDUDZO: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  The native of this land became united in the reclamation of their land.  Today, Zimbabwe is a distinct nation among the nations of the world; among the nations of Africa, in that the natives of this land have control of the primary means of production, which is land itself.  There can never be tolerance of any suggestions of that land to be subject to a process where it can be transferred and be taken away from the people of this country.  

What we therefore need in this country, is to protect the rights of the natives from our ancestral land.  Secondly, we need to entrench the non-transferability of communal land.  If you read the Bible in 1 Kings Chapter 21, you will read of King Nabboth Vineyard, that there is no value, there is no price which can be equal to ancestral land.

[Time Limit]

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Ndudzo, your time is up.

HON. KARENYI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.  I rise to say that today as Members of Parliament, we have learnt a lesson that if one of us is debating and one has requested for an extension of time, both sides should agree to the extension of time.  We observed that Members on the other side, whenever there is a request for an extension of time from this side, they simply deny it, which is a bad habit.  They must learn today that it is important that we must be given additional time.  This is a lesson we all learnt today.  Thank you.  

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  We are not in this House to fix each other.  Please, let us bear that in our minds.

      HON. S. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Before I proceed…

     THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.  Order, Hon. Members.  Order, Hon. Ziyambi.  Hon. Members please, may we hear the Member in silence.  You may proceed Hon. Ziyambi.

     HON. S. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I was saying, before I proceed, I just want to applaud the debate by Hon. Ndudzo, this is very important.  He chronicled part of our history, where we came from, where we are because of the part of history.  My task now is very simple, I would not take much of the House’s time because most of the issues have been tackled, not by Hon. Ndudzo only but by some of the Hon. Members on my side here.  I would like to applaud all of them for debating so well on this issue.

     I would like to agree with the speakers from the previous session, who said that land cannot be sold.  Land cannot be sold, it cannot be sold – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]– As Zimbabweans, we cannot afford to take chances with our land.  We have learnt the hard way.  The issuance of title deeds to communal land owners has the potential to create a market for land.  This market for land is not something that we want at the current situation in Zimbabwe.  Yes, it is not enough for me to continue with my debate without referring to a part of history, some of which has been said by my predecessors and many people in this House.

      I would like to start with the Land Apportionment Act of 1930. The Land Apportionment Act of 1930 marked the officilisation of land imbalance in Zimbabwe between the blacks and the white minority. The Act saw the relegation of the black majority to areas unsuitable for agricultural purposes known as Tribal Trust Lands (TTL). On the other hand, the whites apportioned themselves with vast tracts of fertile land suitable for agricultural purposes. This then, from 1930, became the arrangement which favoured and benefitted the small white population in the then Rhodesia and disadvantaged the black majority for many years.

To further solidify their upper hand, they crafted the Land Tenure Act in 1969. This tenure Act gave the whites the opportunity to have title deeds for the land that they had illegally possessed. This was to protect them by giving them total ownership and power to borrow. However, the First Chimurenga as we all know, was a response to the encroachment and appropriation of land by the European settlers. This saw Nehanda Nyakasikana, Kaguvi and Lobengula becoming symbols of resistance and ultimately leading to their capture and brutal execution. This was because of land.

      Communal lands, Madam Speaker, are often tied to ancestral heritage and cultural identity. The system where chiefs allocate land is part of the traditional governance structure and respects historical ties and community cohesion. This land is held in accordance with customary law and chiefs act as custodians, ensuring the community’s rights and interests are protected. The Second Chimurenga was a guerrilla war from 1966 to 1979, which led to the end of white minority rule in Rhodesia and establishment of Zimbabwe as an independent state or nation.

In the resettlement areas, offer letters are the documents making a citizen’s ownership of the land. Some are given 99-year leases in resettlement areas. This system is currently working as Government can control and keep track of who is where and owners do not have the right to sell the land because the land belongs to the state. This system is suitable as unscrupulous individuals or owners can be dispossessed of the land and another citizen can be made to benefit.

Communal land in Zimbabwe has always been under the custody of local leaders such as chiefs and headmen. So far, this system has worked with ancestral land passed from generation to generation. Let us therefore always not wish to discard everything that is originally of our own design to adopt foreign practices. The other Hon. Member in this House said there are people in Zimbabwe who always want to be Americans when in fact they are not Americans, but Zimbabweans. Our culture is our culture; we cannot run away from our culture. We are Zimbabweans.

Madam Speaker, it does not make sense and it is not practical to give title deeds to a very small portion of land, which rightfully belongs to a large number of people in communal lands. This will create a lot of conflicts and fights within families. So far, families have a way of managing their land and this cannot be disturbed. If we give title deeds to communal lands, it is a potential disaster in this country. Even the whites when they crafted the Land Tenure Act, they did not even want communal lands to have title deeds in communal lands. So where are we getting this concept from of giving title to communal ancestral land.

Title deeds could lead to the fragmentation and eventual sell of communal lands to erstwhile colonisers which may undermine the security of livelihoods for many who depend on these lands for subsistence farming and grazing. Selling land could lead to the concentration in the hands of a few, potentially displacing the rural economy. So this debate on land tenure systems and title deeds found its way in this House through a backdoor. It is my humble submission that this debate should be dismissed forthwith. So I submit.

*HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Madam Speaker for affording me the opportunity to add my voice on the land issue. First and foremost, as Zimbabweans, we should understand that since the time of Mbuya Nehanda, their wish was for free Zimbabweans. The greatest form of liberation that led them to battle was the issue of the land because the colonisers who were coming had seen an opportunity that the Zimbabwean land could be possessed. So the issue of the land is the reason why there is always this war. When it started, it was the concept of “Child of the Soil” “Mwana wevhu” and up to date, you know that leads us to connecting with our Zimbabwean soil because we fought for the liberation of this country.

Those who would remember, and I am happy that others were talking about the history of this country. Those that know the history of why we are on the opposite side and because of our ages, it is because of the land. If people are not given title over the land, the land would be misused. Those that know would know that in 1987-1989 up until the creation of the Movement for Democratic Change, it was land to the people and not to the politicians. What we were fighting for was that people should have the land and that then triggered the Government of the day to come up with the Land Reform Programme.

*HON. MAPIKI: My point of order is that the Hon. Member, we had asked him to go to Tarshish, but he has gone to Nineveh. He has gone off tangent in terms of the debate. Thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mapiki, your point of order is dismissed.

*HON. CHIDZIVA: I wanted to bring in that element of that history because we are in opposition as a result of the fight against the people. For the land, I am here as opposition because I am fighting for the land. This is another element of the fight for the land. The fight for the land cannot end without the Zimbabwean people getting title deeds to the land. To those that are in the know, our land in the communal lands, you will know this is where we have buried our ancestors.

     *HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Member who is debating has used a word in a sentence that at the moment there is war for the land in Zimbabwe. I do not know in this august House where we hear that we are at war over the issue of the land. If the Hon. Member was speaking in English which is used by other Members of this august House, it means there is no war over the land in Zimbabwe. Can he use any better word so that he cannot over-emphasise or misguide this House in terms of the definition of the war? I thank you.

      *HON. CHIDZIVA: Madam Speaker, when I spoke using vernacular and the word hondo, I am talking about disagreement which leads to conflict that has to be resolved so that we can go ahead and say it has been resolved. I will proceed by saying that the issue of the land brings us together because it takes us back to totems of each and every one of us. We go back to our totems and touch or grab scent and talk to one’s ancestors. If one has not yet had a right to this land, it means that you will be removed from the areas that you value as residents as was the case that happened in Seke, Mutoko and Mvuma.

      Those people no longer can connect with their ancestors or their traditional way of life. It is important that when we talk about the issue of the land tenure and the right to land, the movers of this motion, we requested that they be given title deeds to the land. It helps everyone that no white man can come and chase you away from your piece of land. There is no Chinese that can come and remove you from the piece of land if you have title to it. There will be no evictions if you have title to that land.

     As has been said before by the white men, they had title deeds because they wanted to remove you from the land hence, they did not give the title deeds to the blacks. As Zimbabweans, we must have the appropriate people who now have title deeds. You know that this land, in other words, if you are in certain places, I talked about the liberation and that there is need for liberation in terms of the land. If you are not a member of a particular political party and you live in Chidziva Village, you can be removed from Chidziva Village because you have no right to that piece of land that you have. People will not be free to live in the country.

If you do not support that particular ideology, you are removed from that land because you have no right to that land. If you have got the right to that land, no one can remove you from it. That is how we connect the liberation of the person to the land. If you want Zimbabweans to be free or liberated or feel that they belong to this country, they are children of the country. This soil is where we live today.

     This is where we are going to be interred and it is going to be our final resting places. It important that we need to have our rights even if we are dead. It is important to have title deeds for our land. If we get to a stage where we think we want to sell the land – what we need is, we are not going to sell the land, but do not want to be moved away from the land. We want to remain in occupancy of our land, no matter who is going to come tomorrow, do not address the issue about the sale of the land when people are busy suffering from being evicted from the land that they occupied.

People should have their rights to live to their ancestors’ land where their umbilical cords are buried.

*HON. MALINGANISO: On a point of order Madam Speaker Ma’am, the Hon. Member is now shouting. He spoke about being at war and we now became afraid when others debate, they speak normally and we listen.  This is an august House, we should not be quarrelling with one another. I thank you Madam Speaker.

     *HON.  CHIDZIVA: Thank you, Hon. Speaker, let them forgive me.  On the issue of the land, I become possessed.  If your father were a village head, you would not have said that.

     *HON. SHONGEDZA: On a point of order. My point of order is that the Hon. Member is threatening us. They do not know where the land came from.  He was a young child when the war was being fought.  He was a sellout.  

     THE. ACTING SPEAKER: I think you must withdraw the word sellout.

     *HON. SHONGEDZA: I withdraw Madam Speaker.

     THE. ACTING SPEAKER:   Thank you Hon. Shongedza.  Please proceed Hon. Member.

     *HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Madam Speaker…

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Members!  In terms of Standing Order Number 111, Hon. Members are advised not to engage in tedious repetition, but to come up with new ideas instead of repeating the same things that have already been debated. You may proceed Hon. Member.

*HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do not have much to say, only to say I would like to thank Hon. Clifford Hlatywayo for the motion that he brought forward.  I think all of us, in the end, will see the importance of this motion because it is our hope that we do not look down upon those who started the liberation struggle.  I thank you.

      *HON. C. CHIDUWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maám. I also want to add my voice on this motion that was brought by Hon. Hlatywayo.  I think from the onset, we need to bring each other to speed as to why the land?  Land ownership in Zimbabwe is rooted in the liberation war as alluded to, but I will try to make sure that I will also take a different route in my debate.

Those who fought for land fought for the means of production.  The means of production we have the land, the labour and the capital.  When we are talking about the land, it is not just the soil, but we are talking about the soil, that which is on top of the land and that which is found under the land. By this, we are talking about our forests, water, and minerals - all this constitute the land.    Then when we defined ourselves and when we had acquired our land, the country was vey precise in terms of placing the role of land in the development agenda of Zimbabwe.  The land is the economy and Hon. Members, I would want to link what we have done so far with the land, especially on tobacco, mining and wheat production.  We are a food secure country outside the EL-Niño weather phenomenon.  If you look at last year, for the first time in the history of Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe is wheat secure.  

We have managed to construct a number of dams because we own the land.  So if you check where we want to go now, our economic development trajectory which is in vision 2030 and National Development Strategy One (1), is rooted in the land.   Vision 2030 under NDS1, we have got priority areas, infrastructure development.  Under infrastructure development, whether you are looking at rail, road, energy or water, all these require land.  So if you link the vision 2030, its realisation requires land.  

There is priority area on food security, and in order for us to realise food security, we need land.  There is priority area on housing, to realise housing we need land.  Devolution, under devolution, the main thrust of devolution is local economic development, and local economic development says, develop your area using the resources that you have around you and it requires land.  Mining development, now that we are discovering a lot of minerals, imagine if we had no ownership of land and all of a sudden lithium happens to be at someone’s plot.  Imagine the platinum now, the oil and gas - all these if the land was in the private hands, we were not going to be able to access these as Zimbabweans… – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -   

Land, for those who aspire to lead this country, it is the economy that determines the political super structure, if you do not own land, you can forget about having power in Zimbabwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  So the policy on land in terms of the ownership is non-negotiable and irrevocable – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  What we can only do now is to talk about production.  What we should do in order that we till the land and I am happy that our banks now accept the 99-year leases and the focus is now on production.  The beauty of the 99-year leases is, the ownership of land is rooted in those who are present and those who are not yet born. It then means there is even a chance for future governments to redistribute the land in line with the population sizes.

  So, imagine if we are going to share it amongst ourselves now and we say this one belongs to you and it is yours forever.  We will not get the chance to redistribute the land in the future. So, the 99-year lease will allow us to re-look at the land sizes as we focus on intensive agriculture.

 So, I would want to totally dismiss the motion as it was submitted by Hon. Hlatywayo but to also take this opportunity to say the motion is a reminder to all of us as Zimbabweans.  Hon. Members mentioned the importance of ownership of land, which is quite laudable.  However, I think what we need to agree on as Zimbabweans is the issue of ownership of land is non-negotiable.  We are looking at sustainable tenure, at the moment we have sanction-induced poverty and sanction-induced economic instability and if we had title deeds, given the hardship, one would easily sell the title.  Once the title is gone, I tell you we will start to hear about being a member of the International Court of Justice or arbitration and all that.  

So, Hon. Members, we should not allow a situation where we will lose what we have.  Land is the economy and the economy is the one that determines the political superstructure.  I so submit.

HON. GANYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to vigorously defend and to ultimately block the attempt of reversal to this land that we have as enshrined in the motion brought into this House.

 I am glad and at the same time reminding the august House that we are debating and I have been observing that some Members seem to be making jokes out of what we are debating here.  We are only eight days away from celebrating 44 years after independence and Hon. Members, you are reminded that if you are indeed a patriotic Zimbabwean, we must meet in Murambinda next week, on the 18^th of April, 2024.

I would not do justice or bring exactly the facts around this issue of land without having to refer back, unfortunately the previous speakers have detailed the historical and death sentence.   So, I am not going to dwell much on what has been said.

However, let me quickly get into 99 as we get into 2000, the New Millennium when our forefathers, and chiefs decided to take back the land for our people.  It surprised me that some of the people who had a different ideology of thinking that the land was supposed to remain with the minority white people are now, to some extent, kind of agreeing that the land indeed belongs to the Zimbabweans but in a different way, which to me, to some extent has a hidden agenda.  

When the land was then taken back; let me not talk about the Second Chimurenga, some people with a different ideology which they currently still have were criticising it heavily.  In analysing, they were saying we should not take the land, and if you ask, they were saying why should we take the land that does not belong to us.  Why are we taking someone’s land? I once said in this august House, last year on the 28^th of November, this is an emotional matter because I did not have the privilege of seeing my father. After all, he had gone to war for the reason of this topic we are discussing about.  Therefore, whenever we are debating, we should not bring jokes here.

After we took the land they then said, it was good to take the land but the way it was taken.  My question is still unanswered even today, what then were we supposed to do in getting our land?  Did we need to use any means besides the way we got it? Surely, if someone robbed me and I meet with him with whatever they have stolen from me, I will not have any formula for taking it back. The thief has no right to tell me how I should take it back; you do not lecture me on my property or something that belongs to me. So, the question of how we took it back is none of the business of the Western.  The way how we took it back is non-negotiable and it brings emotions when it comes to this issue.  

Madam Speaker, when we moved, they then said well, we kind of agree that it was necessary to take it in that manner but what are you doing with the land? In some instances, they will be posing very valid questions but the problem that has happened; Hon. Togarepi once spoke about it.  If we were not debating, beaming on these screens, some of the Members here would not be debating because they have got people whom they want to show off that they are defending them in this august House. However, let me remind Zimbabweans that we are not defending anyone outside Zimbabwe, we are only defending Zimbabweans here.

Madam Speaker, I happen to also have some relatives who live abroad, and one of my relatives there is kind of living miserably. I asked him to come back home and get a piece of land so that he can do some production and he answered, I do not come to share looted parcel.  I said really, we still have people who think like that.  Then I was reminded that it is very difficult to liberate the mind of a happy slave to some extent.  Let me say that again, it is very difficult because it is the intention of the colonial masters that the power of the oppressors stays in the oppressed person such that they speak on their behalf even when they are not there.  

      On many occasions, I have been the go between, especially when we are going with the bride token, not bride price.  I always tell the people that I will be accompanying that when you are given nice chairs and sofas to sit on, do not attempt to sit on those ones up until we finish.  In Shona I quote, ‘hero sadza nyamukute uchienda kunonyudza’.  You will not be able to come back.  If you speak when you are a son-in-law before you finish handing over the bribe token, you are going to be punished for that.  It is a trap.

       My question is, what is it that we cannot do because we are not holding title deeds?  The best undisputed title deed, biblically, culturally, socially is not that piece of paper.  The graveyard of our own forefathers are a proof and testimony that it is and they are indeed undisputed title deeds.  Even in the rural area, if you come from Murombedzi in the communal lands, the only proof that you have about who owns that piece of land, just show people to say there pakarara madzibaba nemadzitateguru edu.  It is proof of a title deed.

      Madam Speaker, if we check many other countries that have failed this trap, right now I can give examples like Uganda and Kenya, the land is in the hands of the private players as we speak.  Now when the land is fully controlled by individuals, when the land is no longer distributed by the State, there is chaos that is yet to come.  We are creating and giving an opportunity of the new revolution of land barons that will sell it back.  Mind you, those so called colonial masters have looted.  They left so many shafts when they looted our gold and minerals and they have reserved them there.  They will come back and buy this land from our own indigenous people.  At the end, we will be left with nothing.  Let me clearly say Madam Speaker, anyone who can debate in support of this motion is stealing ignorantly from future generations – [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] -   

     Madam Speaker, there should be a difference between a lease holder and the property owner and in this case, rural settlement areas known as reserved area, commercial agricultural land and mining, land should only be used and remain state owned properties while citizens remain as 99-year lease holders, renewable, who will be there after 100 years.  It is just as good as you have been given it for a lifetime and our children will inherit it and renew it.

      Let me also remind this august House that even in the UK and America, the citizens there do not own title deeds to the land that they have built on.  They have got only sectional title deeds of the dwelling properties, not the land.  Meaning to say if the house is sitting on 200sqm, that is only what you own.  The rest is owned by the State.  So why do we need to start something that is not implemented by those who want to be choir masters of human rights.

      Madam Speaker, in my view this is a total trap that is to some extent going to short change our own Zimbabwe.  Madam Speaker, tittle deeds can be made available like I said for only property that falls under the Ministry of Local Government, such as those in peri-urban local authorities like growth points, towns and cities, while sectional title deeds may be issued to those who wish to have them only in those areas.

      Madam Speaker, the issue of the title deeds is not a clear issue here.  I am sure there are other issues behind which we are not seeing, but we are glad that we once got trapped with the issue of title deeds.  If we look back when Cecil John Rhodes came, he occupied the whole land of Zimbabwe and named it after himself, Southern Rhodesia Northern Rhodesia, but he followed by subdividing it into what was then called estates.  Many are to be reminded of the charter estates and many other estates around.

     That was a testimony of holding on to a bigger piece of land of many thousands of hectares.  They went on to subdivide it to ranges and they went on to subdivide it to farms and issued title deeds.  They started selling that land to our own Government, the same Government that went to war for the same issue of land     

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Ganyiwa, you are left with five minutes.

       HON. GANDIWA:  I am sure five minutes is enough for me to conclude Madam Speaker.  What I am trying to bring here, Madam Speaker, is that even at present day, issuing of title deeds to the communal lands and farming land to the people that never paid any cent to have it is a total fraud.  How can you issue a title deed to a piece of land that you have not even paid any cent for?  How can we officiate and legalise fraud at its highest level?

Madam Speaker, this is a trap.  In Shona and I quote, we say ‘inyasha dzei kubvisa mwana wemvana madziwa.’ inyasha dzei kubvisa mwana wemvana madzihwa, iyo mvana yacho yakatsvuka kudaro, murikudei? There are issues in here.  So, the best way to deal with it, we should only – like Hon. Chiduwa said, talk about production and let it be a subject to be discussed by Zimbabweans for Zimbabweans.  We do not want anyone from outside who will start criticising to say we have taken back the land but what have you done with it.  It is like you are telling me that you are wasting this beautiful wife, why can you not make seven children with her?  I do whatever I want.  This motion should not be given further opportunity to be debated but to be totally dismissed.  I thank you.

     *HON. L. MUNEMO: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I will add a few words to the debate.  I would like to add my voice on the issue of land tenure. Firstly, this country came after the liberation struggle, meaning there was something which was done the wrong way before.  All our ancestors had their settlement.  When Whites came, they then taught us the systems on which they wanted us to live.  We then went on, then we started a liberation struggle, up to the extent when we liberated the country because it is important for us to have this land.

If somebody is given land to say you now own it.  It is very true just like what was said by the former speaker, Hon. Chiduwa, you can discover that there are minerals  on that piece of land, we can improve the economy by having those minerals.  If we give it to someone for good, then we will  not have anything.  Other people will languish in poverty.

      I would like to give you an example of what happened in Scotland.  Part of their rural area, has less than people  who bought Scotland.  They have other people who own pieces of land in Scotland but they do not stay in that country  meaning, if we say willing buyer willing seller, it would not end well  We can say Scotland is ours but when those people stay in other countries - we do not want to follow that in our country Zimbabwe. If land is sold, people will do whatever they want, meaning to say if anything comes out of that land, if you discover something like minerals from that place, that person can easily say, he or she does not want to sell those minerals.

      There is a man by the name Marcus Garvey , he spoke in English “ people without their past history, origin and culture,  are like a tree without roots”  meaning to say if you are a true Zimbabwean, if you do not know the history of your country – when you simply think and believe it has to be sold and owned by a few people, you are just like a tree without roots.  It is only in a short space of time; you can easily be taken down.  I  remember when Zimbabwe was still under colonialism, those settlers got the rich parts of the land.  Us as the Mutapa tribe, were taken to those poor soils and  that is where war of the land started.   I am only saying  that land must not be sold.  They left the land after they were defeated. Land must not be sold.  I do not want to continue debating.

I would like to emphasise to you that we have to be strong and not to follow the likes of those people from the West.  People from countries like Scotland, are  fighting to get back their land,  that is what we do not  want to happen in Zimbabwe.  I thank you.

     HON. W. MAPOSA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Thank you very much for giving me this time to add my voice on the land tenure. Land Reform in Zimbabwe, the paper begins with an ethical case for land redistribution in Zimbabwe, based on principles of social justice and equity.  Drawing a brief history of land in Zimbabwe from the first European expulsion up to the independence of the economy that is farming, commercial sector is more efficient than peasant sectors.

      Conflicts of land in Zimbabwe is one of the big news, and stories of today but the media tends to exaggerate the extent to which events unfold.  They are historically contingent and driven by happenings as they stand. Instead, the situation should be seen as structural in the historic process of the colonial rule and subsequent international diplomacy and intervention.  In fact, similar processes are unfolding in our neighbouring countries, that  is, South Africa, Namibia and Botswana.  I just want to take you back to  the fourth, when Hon. Bhajila debated, I hope he is  in the House.  I want him to take a paper and pen so that he writes what is there.

In South Africa, South Africans own 13% of the land.  This is the black majority, 87% is owned by the white minority.  I just want to take back Hon. Bhajila, who told us about what is happening in South Africa?  An ethical case of land distribution, it will be argued first that there is a strong moral case for radical redistribution of land in Zimbabwe. Such depends on appreciation of the origins of the country, land ownership.  So, therefore, the historical outline of land acquisition exploited from the initial European settlers in the 19^th Century from British rule up to 1980.  How many came to be British, the Berlin Conference of 1884, I hope my Hon. is writing because land is irreversible…

      HON. MAPOSA: 87% is owned by the white minority. I just want to track back to Hon. Bajila who told us about what is happening in South Africa. An ethical case for land distribution; it will be argued first that there is a strong moral case for a radical distribution of land in Zimbabwe. Such a case would depend on appreciation of the origins of the country’s land ownership. So, there follows a historical outline of land acquisition and expropriation from the initial European settlements in the 19^th Century to Independence from British rule up to 1980.

How land came to the British? The Berlin Conference of 1884 defined the broad limits of expansion of each of the European powers. I hope my Hon. Member is writing because land is irreplaceable and I am referring to Hon. Bajila because when he spoke on the 4^th, it was not correct. As part of this exercise, the British Government in 1888 declared the existence of a British sphere of interest between Botswana and the Zambezi. Thus, Mashonaland and Matebeleland were allocated by the European powers to British influence. In that year, our King Lobengula was misled into signing a mining concession which effectively granted Cecil Rhodes the right to occupy Mashonaland. Land theft occurred right up to the 1970s and many expatriate landowners still claim their rights over specific landholdings that they had previously farmed.

Madam Speaker, land is irreversible. I want our Hon. Members to take paper and pen so that I elaborate what happened with the land which is not irreversible:

1979/80 Lancaster House Agreement materialised funding the voluntary sale only compensation; full market price convertible to foreign currency.

1983 stalling of the Land Reform Programme.

1991 Amended Constitution allowing compulsory acquisition of land with little compensation or right to appeal.

1992 Land Acquisition Act. The right of the Government to acquire land by compulsion.

1997 Decision to implement the 1992 Act and undertake compulsory purchase of land.

1998(Sept) International conference donor support for voluntary sales only.

1998(Nov) Compulsory acquisition orders issued. Dispossessed farmers to be compensated (at fair market value)

2000(May) Amendment to the Constitution and the 1992 Act permitting compulsory acquisition of land without compensation.

2000(July) Programme started, land expropriated without compensation

Madam Speaker, could land reform be reversed? No. As we have seen, Government has now declared the programme complete and I do

not know why we are debating this land in this House yet it is complete. Of course, we can only speculate. To some extent, it would depend on what the programme had accomplished by then.

      In conclusion, it would be difficult to talk of reversing the land reform. I urge the Government, international community and the opposition, if possible, to alleviate Zimbabwe’s economic crisis. It should be remembered that the roots of this crisis can be traced back to the introduction of policies under ESAP in 1991. Instead, whether by accident or design, the Government is pursuing the only available route to recovery. I, therefore, propose that we dismiss this motion. Thank you so much Hon. Speaker.

     HON. TOGAREPI: I come forward to debate this very emotional motion raised by Hon. Hlatywayo. A motion about land and land tenure. Land was the number one grievance that made the people of Zimbabwe, the black majority to fight against colonialism. I think everyone who debates or who wants to talk about land must have that in mind that land defines a people.

Land cannot be owned by a section of a society or people depriving others of that land and you do not see people fighting. There are countries in the world today who are fighting for football grounds, small portions of land. Thousands and thousands of people have died fighting for that small piece of land. Land and survival of the people of any country or nationalist, you cannot separate them from their land. Wars have been fought.

If you compare reasons for many countries going to war, you will find not less than 80% of those wars are related to the land issue and today we sit in this product – this House is a product of the liberation struggle – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – debating to reverse all what we fought for – [HON. MEMBERS: Tichatorwa. Wanga uripo here?] – Madam Speaker, I was listening very well when others were debating. I would not want somebody to interrupt me because that person is a surrogate of imperialism – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –  I would not want that. I listened. You have your opinion; I will listen to it and I will debate to give you my side of the story. ‘Don’t’. The land issue is emotional. I punctuated that when I started. It is very emotional.

The idea of coming up with  title deeds, let me explain how I see it. Look, when we embarked on the land reform in 2000, we were taking land slightly above 4 000 white minority who had 70% of the agricultural land and gave it to our people and others did not get the land because it was limited. If the Government one day and I am sure the progressive Government should decide that the population has increased those who demand or who want land have become many. The land that was given to Hon. Karikoga is big and we would want him to remain with a little portion and redistribute the other to other people. How will they do it when Hon. Karikoga now has a title deed? We are creating another war.

Any idea of coming up with title deeds to land which was repossessed not for me who has got the land but for all the people of Zimbabwe is not good. I am only holding it for the people of Zimbabwe and when they want it, they must be able to take it. I cannot claim to say that the land that I got is mine and mine alone. Why? I did not pay a cent. I was only at the right place at the right time when the land was redistributed, I got that land but it should remain State property. Should the State want to redistribute that land, it must have the power and the right to do it.  Every person and future generations have the same rights that I have today on the same land. So, for those who are trying to sell or come up with title deeds, it is the strategy of the enemy.  The strategy of those who owned land illegally in the fist place and parceled it out and got title deeds to it.  They have now lost the game because we took our land.  Now they want to come back and say can you parcel it out, give title deeds, they bring in monies they go after stealing our gold and our minerals.

They will come and buy that land and when they buy it, it is now sold by our people, they will say we have title deeds and we bought it from your people and this is now our land.  Zimbabwe will wake up sold on an auction floor.  Is that what we want? All agricultural land, whoever wants to sell title, sell it in Harare, Bulawayo, Masvingo, Mutare and urban centres, sell it. When we are talking of our communal land and our agricultural land, it is not owned by an individual.  Every individual has got a chance to use the land, if you get there ahead of others then you can use it.  When the time comes for others to get that land, there should not be a reason for you to resist.  We are better of after the liberation struggle now because we got that land.  

We got that land and gave it to everyone who has land today for free.   It is now easier to take it and give it to anyone else who wants land and there will not be any problem because nobody paid a cent.  What paid for the land is the blood of our people who died to liberate this country.  The main reason why we went to war was land.  

Madam Speaker, I will tell you a very short story.  There was this guy who kept a monkey on a leash on its waist and the chain destroyed the waist.  There came a good man who saw that the monkey was injured, leashed on a tree.  He said why are you keeping this monkey leashed like this and injured. He fought the owner of the monkey or the guy who claimed that he was the owner of the monkey and he won.  He untied the monkey, the monkey instead of running away now that it was free, the monkey went up the tree to go back to its tormentor.

The reason is that some of us were freed from colonialism, what was freed was their bodies but the brain remained colonised.  Up to today, they think money can be the major reason for our existence as a country.  This country Zimbabwe, cannot be owned by an individual, it should never. I thought some of the people that I see who were opposing the view of the Land Reform Programme thought the land was not going to be taken from whites, would be the first to defend that land must never be titled because they do not have the land. There will come an opportunity for their children and descendants to get land.  They are here now giving us title to those who agreed on the land reform and we got the land.  Your children will be poor because you have already relegated your people and future generations without land.  

You must not defend anyone owning the land. Those who fought for this country, some died and they never had an opportunity to have title to this land.  They did not fight for themselves, they fought for you and  me. Why should we who are the first heirs to this land decide to own it at the expense of those who are coming and those who had no chance to get the land when it was redistributed?  Why should we think we are special? Anyone who will sectionalise this land, create title deeds, and deny others the right to get this land is an author of future turmoil and is an author of future war.  People will fight for this land because the same people will remind you how did you get this land that today you have got title to?  

We asked the whites, Madam Speaker, when we were taking the land in 2000; you stole this land. This land belongs to our forefathers and you took the land after fighting a war in Malaysia, in Burma there, and came here to be compensated for your fighting outside Zimbabwe and got fertile land here. Now, you have got title to the land that belonged to our forefathers, we want it back and we took it back.  It will come again if we are not clever, not responsible if we are incited or excited by other forces to try and sell our birthright, the right by every Zimbabwean to own land or to be part of the land; we will create another war.  Let us not be fooled, excitement should never influence our mind.  

So, Madam Speaker, it is interesting that we find everyone wanting to discuss or debate about land. The mover of this motion, I think he just wanted to jolt us and make us rethink about who we are, our relationship to our land.  It was good for that not to propagate or to push for title deeds for communal land or for any piece of land that was acquired.  It is a process of the revolution that made us take the land.  If we are real Zimbabweans, we should therefore advocate for our land to be owned by a single individual because that single individual got that land ahead of you.  So, he must have title and you are now asked to look for money to buy it from me but I got it for nothing.

Madam Speaker, I really want to encourage the Hon. Members here from the two sides of the political divide that let us talk about other things.  Let us not play with the land.  It is deep, some of us who are going against this, we have relatives that died fighting for this land.  Will they be happy that you do not get land and when you want land you are going to buy when I got it through the land reform for free.  Those relatives of yours who died fighting for this land, will they be happy when you are asked to fork out a million dollars to buy the same land that I got for free?  That mentality must just go.  Go and throw it in the dustbin, it is not correct.  

If there is anyone Madam Speaker who has land today, who believes that that land is for him, is for her or his descendants, that mentality must be cleaned.  Otherwise, we need to go to the madzibabas and clean that mind.  It is very dangerous; this land belongs to all of us.  This land is our land together.  We are in this Parliament built on this land because it is ours.  If all this and land was titled by other people, would we come on this hill and build this beautiful Parliament?  Will we have the same freedom that we have, I agree with leasing.  Government remains with the right to take the land back.  Some will tell you when they are drunk from taking too much chibuku that Hon Togarepi has 50ha, but he is doing nothing with it.  Let me tell you today that every revolution has a duty.  There was a duty to go to war to fight to get this land.  The other stage of the revolution was to go and take it from the whites.  Maybe I was part of that, but if your child, who is a good farmer and an expert farmer comes tomorrow, he must find the land in the hands of a black man and use it for the future growth of this country.  So your mind must tell you that the land is with Togarepi today, but tomorrow when my descendants come and they want this land, it is easily accessible because Togarepi got it for free.

HON.  P. DUBE:  On a point of order.  With all due respect, Hon. Togarepi continuously refers to either this side or that side during the debate.  I think the rules are very clear that he should address you so that we do not feel he is just referring to anyone.  I think the rules are very clear.

      THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Okay, Hon. but I did not see him pointing at anyone or hear him referring to any side.  He neither referred to the left nor right side.  If he pointed maybe he was pointing at the Clerks-at-the-Table.

       HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker I hear you.  Hon Members, I am talking to you as representatives of the people.  I am raising these issues and surely as the Chair, you will hear me.  Hon. Members, as representatives of the people, I urge all of you to go and tell the people of Zimbabwe that Zimbabwe and its land belongs to them.  Nobody must have preference to that land above others.  Where-ever you come from and whatever your view is, you are part of the ownership of this land and you must defend it.  Whether it is owned by me today, defend it for future generations.  If it is owned by you today, I will defend it for future generations.  The Zimbabwean land cannot be priced.  The blood of our people, young and old is pricier for this land to be sold for a song.  On the 18^th April, when we celebrate the independence of Zimbabwe, the major cause of celebration was reclamation of our land.  We can talk about one man one vote and everything else, but you cannot have that right without ownership of that land.  So I really pray that the Hon. Member in my view, without going deep into his mind or what influenced him to come up with this motion – but if you ask me, I think he just wanted to remind us that 18^th April was coming and the land is in the hands of the black people of Zimbabwe.  We must never sell it.  So, the motion cannot be adopted, it is misplaced and not serving our interest as a people.  I thank you.

     HON. TOGAREPI:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

     HON. KAMBUZUMA:  I second.

     Motion put and agreed to.

      Debate to resume Tuesday, 7^th May, 2024.

MOTION

PROTECTION OF DEPOSITORS AND INVESTORS DEPOSITS IN BANKS AND OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.

      Second Order read:  Adjourned debate on Protection of Depositors and Investors Deposits in Banks and other Financial Institutions.

      Question again proposed.

       HON. DR. MUTODI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Allow me to add my voice on the debate around the deposit protection law which in my view is very pertinent and very technical.  My contribution will center around the collapse of banks in Zimbabwe which dove-tails with the risk faced by depositors when the banks collapse.  I have classified these factors into three, namely: the idiosyncratic factors, macro-economic factors and legal, political or policy factors.  On the idiosyncratic factors, the general trend that has emerged or what we can call corporate related factors are the primary source of bank instability.  I say this because from empirical evidence, most banks that have collapsed pausing a risk to depositors are the indigenous banks or simply banks controlled by locals. Examples include the ZABG, Trust Bank, Royal Bank, the ENG Discount House, Barbican Bank, Interfin and Kingdom bank among others.  All foreign banks such as Barclays, Standard Chartered and Stanbic have not collapsed. However, some have sold their stakes and left the country due to what they call unfavourable banking conditions.  The idiosyncratic factors leading to the bank’s failure need to be examined and laws need to be crafted in order to protect depositors.  These factors include among others, the weighted average cost of capital, the bank quick ratio and also the debt equity ratio, the profile of bank directors, the banks’ financial model which dove-tails with the portfolio selection and its return on investment.  Then the bank’s dividend policy.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, from my understanding, the various financial market theories such as the Markowitz Single Factor Model, the Arbitrage Pricing Model and the Capital Asset Pricing Model, these idiosyncratic factors contribute immensely to the performance of banks, hence the need for them to be regulated by law. Madam Speaker, macro-economic factors include the following: - Money supply which relates to the monetisation of the economy or printing of money in order to finance Government expenditure; Interest rates, which pose a risk to depositors especially when the interest rate or the lending rate is below inflation rate, thereby encouraging speculative borrowing; and inflation. Inflation is another macro-economic condition Madam Speaker that erodes confidence in the banking sector. A hyperinflationary environment is directly linked to bank failure. Any legal intervention that we therefore need to propose to protect investors must address inflation as a root cause of instability in the banking sector and leading to unjust enrichment of bank executives in some cases.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, closely related to the money supply interest rates and inflation, is the exchange rate volatility which has often caused the erosion of incomes including bank deposits or savings as well as per capita incomes. Banks maintain books of accounts and financial and management accounts which they produce periodically to tell the bank how much profit they can make, simply as a result of depreciation of assets under their control. Cash deposited into the bank depreciates at a rate proportional to the exchange rate and inflation. If there is no law to deal with hyperinflation and exchange rate volatility, there can be no law which is effective to protect depositors. Savings are devalued based on exchange rates and inflation.

Bankers are also rational persons hence they will try to hedge against inflation by acquiring assets which they can sell easily to offset liabilities or through the commodification of United States Dollars. Due to the time value of money principle, rational bankers quickly convert Zimbabwe dollars deposits into hard currency which they can easily liquidate on the informal market in order to cater for demand deposits because the Zim Dollar depreciates quickly against the hard currency leading to super profits by banks. This situation therefore, encourages those speculative bankers to act in the way they have done in the past.

The cure  lies with the control of macro-economic factors. Madam Speaker, the rate at which our currency was losing value, especially before the introduction of the ZiG show that financial authorities may have pursued misleading policies which have left our depositors at risk of losing their wealth.

On the political factors, Madam Speaker, they include whether or not the Reserve Bank was independent, the existence of policy inconsistences which in turn affects public confidence in the banking sector and also other decisions that are associated with the management of nostro accounts. Madam Speaker, it is apparent that this House comes up with laws to protect depositors without necessarily focusing on idiosyncratic factors of banks, but also the monetary policy and other wider macro-economic conditions set out by the Government through its fiscal policy.

I would like to thank His Excellency, President E. D. Mnangagwa for allowing the RBZ to introduce the ZiG currency which is going to be backed by gold and other precious metals. This is envisaged to stabilise our financial market systems through strengthening the market. We need to establish laws that regulate or protect depositors in order to:

Promote a sustainable and safe sound banking sector;

To protect banks from being run over into times of crisis;

To protect depositors from losing the value of their deposits from the time the bank closes and the time they are compensated; and

Also, to transfer this from depositors and banks to insurance companies.

However, the question that remains is whether it is possible to ensure or to insure every dollar. The answer is a no. Banking, like any other business, has a risk that cannot be avoided. I therefore, suggest that there must be any intricate interplay between Government policy and legislation in order to reach an optimum level for banking service and a cultivation of confidence in the financial service sector. The RBZ, for a start, needs to be independent and desist from quasi-fiscal activities. The RBZ also needs to play its lender of last resort function effectively and the interbank lending system must be promoted and corporate governance principle is followed to avoid banks failure.

Government must properly plan macro-economic factors especially keeping money supply interest rates and inflation under control, especially during the period I have alluded to, the period before the introduction of the ZiG. Also, Madam Speaker, there must be an effective operation of the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission, which must keep a close eye on bank executives’ lifestyles and arrest those found to be engaging in speculative lending and other unfavourable activities.

The bank lending rates must be inflation adjusted such that exchange rate depreciation does not end up as the source of profit for financial institutions and for individuals who capitalise on the interest rate and inflation deferential. I thank you Madam Speaker.

HON. MUKOMBERI:  Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity granted for me to add my voice on the debate on depositors’ protection. The protection of depositors is the brainchild of the Government of Zimbabwe when the Depositors Protection Cooperation was formed with the intention to form somewhat an insurance cooperation that will subrogate in the event of an individual contributory failing. This implies that the Deposit Protection Cooperation is an institution to which the contributors are banks which are commercial banks, merchant banks, building societies and even the deposit taking micro-finance institutions. These contributors pull their resources into the Depositors Protection Cooperation such that in the event of bank failure, the cooperation is going to subrogate and act on behalf of the contributory and restore the depositors to their original position before the risk so that one is not going to lose wealth at bank.

The Depositors Protection Cooperation’s operations are guided by the Depositors Protection Cooperation Act which provides for the creation of the Depositors Protection Cooperation Fund which is guided by Section 30 of the Depositors Protection Cooperation Act [Chapter 22:29]. It is from this fund, that in the event of an individual institution, say a commercial bank fails,  it means that the bank owes the depositors whatever balances are in the accounts of the depositors, they make the amount that the bank owes to the depositors.

In essence, the Act provides that there is a maximum amount that is a ceiling, that is recoverable upon bank failure by a depositor. This amount, if it is to the tune of the balance of a depositor or a depositor has got a balance less than the ceiling, one is going to recover the total amount in his bank account balance. So, the loophole in this Act that needs refining Madam Speaker is that of a ceiling of the amount that is compensated to the depositor or to a client.  Suppose one has got an account balance which is above the ceiling, it will imply that the excess above the ceiling is not recoverable upon the bank’s failure.  It will be paid to the depositor later through the process of liquidation if the bank is deemed fit for liquidation or when a bank is considered to be run under the judicial management.  Then the depositors are going to be paid the excess above the ceiling on pro rata basis.  That is the liquidator upon disposal of assets of the bank; it will be paying depositors their excess balances on pro rata.    

     Madam Speaker Ma’am, there is a risk on the side of depositors that in the event of the bank’s failure, you one is not assured of recovering the total amount that one has at the bank.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, why is it important to protect depositors?  An economy can grow only if it has a well-functioning banking system; where businesses have confidence in the banking system and deposit their funds, and all funds they receive undergo a formal banking system.  This will imply that the more the corporates and individuals do save their funds at banks, the more the credit is created through the bank to make available capital for economic growth.  

In economic analysis Madam Speaker, savings are always equated to investment.  It implies that with a proper depositors’ protection system, individuals and corporates do save their funds for future investment.   As one saves money at the bank, this money is not wholly kept at the bank, relative to the required reserves as gazetted by the Central Bank, in our case the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.  

Madam Speaker Ma’am, a bank has a proportion or a percentage of the deposits that are made by individuals or by depositors or by clients that the bank should keep.  The excess can be lent out so that credit creation through the bank lending out an excess over and above the percentage that is kept as reserves at the bank will create capital for investment.  In our Zimbabwean scenario, we have like the Women’s Bank.  People go there, they may not find money because people are not depositing.  We may have commercial banks where people can go and try to acquire loans for investment, people cannot find money because people are not depositing.  It implies that there will be limited sources of capital for investment.  If the depositors are confident that their funds are protected against risk of loss, one can deposit as much funds as he can to save for future investment, but it will not be only his investment per se.  It will be the creation of investment by any other person or any other economic player who may be willing to go and acquire a loan at the bank as the bank is going to create credit through the credit multiple effect.  

Madam Speaker, it implies therefore, that there is a direct proportionality between savings and investment.  That growth investment automatically results in the increase in national income. This is through the investment multiple effect that a smaller amount invested today results in national income increasing in multiples, as investment is exogenous. Madam Speaker Ma’am, with a proper depositors’ protection system, Zimbabwe is assured of achieving Vision 2030.

At this juncture, I want to applaud the Government of Zimbabwe for protecting depositors during the transition form the Zimbabwean dollar to the Zimbabwean gold.  We had our balances at banks.  The Government tried and maintained our value such that our balances were transformed from the Zimbabwean dollar to the ZiG.  It maintains their real values without any erosion of value as the interbank rate was used and everyone was assured of the security of his or her balance in the bank account. This is where my clapping hands for the Government is coming from – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

Madam Speaker Ma’am, I think it is and it was a common consensus by the House that there is need for some consideration and improvement in the loopholes in the current Depositors Protection Corporation Act.  It does not indemnify depositors in full upon the risk of closure of a bank or a financial institution.  As the Depositors Protection Corporation Act, as an insurance company, the principle of indemnity should apply.  It brings one to his original position before the risk happened, which means one is restored, and is going to recover the total amount to the tune of his risk exposure.  This is my humble submission.  I thank you.  

HON. HADEBE:  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I rise to support the motion and also throw a few nukes on the Deposit Protection Corporation Act.  The Deposit Protection Corporation Act is a crucial piece of legislation that provides protection to depositors of failed financial institutions.  It is especially important given the recent spate of bank failures in our country.  The Deposit Protection Corporation plays a pivotal role in maintaining public confidence in the banking sector and protecting the savings of individuals and businesses.  

Madam Speaker, I would like to highlight a few key points in support of this motion.  The Deposit Protection Act provides for the establishment of a Deposit Protection Fund.  This fund is financed by levies paid by financial institutions and is used to reimburse depositors in the event of bank failure.  This Fund ensures that depositors do not lose their savings when a bank fails and it helps to maintain financial stability.  It is therefore essential that we continue to support the Deposit Protection Corporation.

Finally, I would like to highlight the importance of public awareness about the role of Deposit Protection Corporation.  The general public needs to be aware of their rights and the process for claiming their deposits in the event of bank failure.  Madam Speaker, I would like to draw your attention to the importance of monitoring and enforcement under the Deposit Protection Act.  The Act requires that financial institutions submit regular reports to the Deposit Protection Corporation.  It also provides for onsite examination by the corporation.  These monitoring and enforcement mechanisms are critical for ensuring that financial institutions comply with the law and protect the interests of depositors.  

Madam Speaker, the Deposit Protection Corporation may be given the resources and authority to carry out its function effectively.  For us to fully debate about Deposit Protection Act without involving the Treasury, we will be doing a disservice.

I will argue that the Deposit Protection Corporation will not be effective in protecting deposits made in the new currency ZiG, given the economic and pollical conditions in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe’s currency has been in a state of flux for many years and the introduction of yet another new currency will only add to the confusion and volatility. The Deposit Protection Corporation is a system designed to protect bank deposits in the event of bank failure, but is not designed to withstand the type of economic turmoil that is currently taking place in Zimbabwe.

Moreover, the Government of Zimbabwe has a history of making sudden and unpredictable changes to the monetary policy. The Government of Zimbabwe has a history of not being transparent or accountable in its economic policies which makes it difficult for the Deposit Protection Corporation Act to effectively do its job.

In fact, there is no guarantee that the Government will even honour its commitment to protect deposits made in the new currency given its track record of breaking promises and not following on its economic commitments. Therefore, while the intention of the Deposit Protection Corporation is noble, it is unlikely to be effective in the current environment with vene vayo still in charge. Thank you.

HON. TOGAREPI: On a point of Order Madam Speaker. I think the Hon. Member had finished, but I think we need to put these things into perspective so that whatever we are saying has some relationship to the motion. The Hon. Member talks about what Government does, but we are talking about the Deposit Protection Corporation whose responsibility we should debate here. Why are we bringing in the Government? We are talking about the Corporation set to do something. If it fails, we attack that institution not Government.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I agree with you Hon. Chief Whip that when Members are debating, we must debate the motion and not any other issues.

HON. HADEBE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I had actually summed up my debate on the Deposit Protection Act. Thank you.

HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you Madam Speaker and greetings from Hurungwe. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise today to speak on a matter of utmost significance, the protection of investors deposits in banks and financial institution. As a representative of the people, it is cumbersome upon us to ensure the integrity and the stability of our financial system. Recent events have underscored the vulnerability of investors funds to mismanagement and malpractice within the banking sector. It is imperative that we take decisive action to fortify the safeguards in place and restore trust in our financial institutions. The banking sector serves as the lifeguard of our Zimbabwe economy, facilitating commerce, investment and economic growth.

However, we cannot ignore the troubling trend of bank failures and collapse that have left depositors in distress and shaken confidence in our financial system. The repercussion of these failures extend far beyond individual deposit, poses a risk to our economy and hindering our national progress. As custodians of public trust, we must confront these challenges head on and implement measures to protect investors’ deposits. Ensuring the safety of investors deposit build trust and confidence in the financial system.

When people believe that their money is secure in the banks, they are more likely to deposit their funds rather than keeping them in cash or investing them in other less secure assets. This trust is vital for attracting both domestic and foreign investment which can contribute enormously to economic growth.

Furthermore, knowing that the deposits are protected, individuals and businesses are likely to save money in banks. Increased savings can provide banks with a stable source of funding for lengthy activities which then can be used to finance investments in various sectors of our economy. This in turn, can stimulate economic growth and development.

In addition, deposit protection mechanism helps in stabilising the financial system by preventing banks collapse and systemic risk in the event of a bank failure or financial turmoil deposit insurance or fidelity cover to provide a safety net for depositors, reducing the likelihood of widespread panic withdrawals that could destabilise the entire banking sector.

More so, when people feel confident in the safety of their deposit, it can encourage greater participation in the formal financial system. This is of particular importance in Zimbabwe where a certain population remains unbanked and underbanked by promoting financial inclusivity, Deposit Protection Measures can help to bring more people into the formal economy, improving the access to financial services and facilitating economic development.

Lastly, robust deposit protection framework can enhance Zimbabwe’s attractiveness to foreign investment. Foreigner investment, particularly those considering long term investment or establishing businesses in the country are likely to prioritise jurisdiction with stronger investment protection mechanisms. This can lead to an increase in foreign direct investment, which can contribute to job creation and technology transfer over our economic growth.

Madam Speaker, implementing deposit protection schemes necessitates a strong legal and regulatory framework. Enhancing these frameworks can have broader benefits beyond just deposit protection including improved governance, transparency and compliance standard with the financial sector. Strengthening these foundations can help to foster a more resilient and sustainable financial system overally.

Therefore, we must boost our regulatory framework to enhance oversight and accountability within the banking sector. These includes strengthening the powers and independence of regulatory bodies, task them with supervising financial institutions. Additionally, we must enforce stringent penalties for banks found to be engaging into frauded and unethical practice sending a clear message that such behaviour will not be tolerated.

Furthermore, the establishment of a comprehensive deposit insurance scheme or a fidelity cover is paramount to providing a safety net for depositors in the event of bank failures. Such a scheme would reassure investors that their funds are protected, even in the face of unseen circumstances. We must prioritise financial literacy and education initiative to empower investors with the knowledge and the tools needed to make informed decisions about their finances.

In summary, ensuring the protection of investors deposits in banks and financial issues offers numerous benefits to our country Zimbabwe including confidence, encouraging serving, promote economic stability, facilitating financial inclusion, attracting foreign investment and enhancing the legal and regulatory framework of a financial sector.  

The protection of investor deposits is not merely a legal or regulatory matter but a moral imperative. As stewards of our nation’s wealthy and prosperity, we have a duty to safeguard the interest of our constituencies and upholding the integrity of our financial system by ensuring robust regulatory measures, establishing a deposit insurance scheme or a fidelity cover and promoting financial literacy. We can also restore confidence in our banking sector and laying the foundation of a sustainable economic growth. Let us seize this opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to protecting the interest of all Zimbabweans, ensuring a brighter future for generations to come.

God Bless Hurungwe and God Bless Zimbabwe, God Bless Africa. I thank you.

HON. BHAJILA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I wish to add my voice on a few issues that are included in the Deposit and Protect Act as well as issues that have been raised by colleagues.  Madam Speaker, let me start my presentation by saying yesterday the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion was here.  He mentioned something that triggered me to add my voice to this Deposit Protection Act.

       The Minister said that they are bringing in provisions of the law to say that bankers in Zimbabwe who are going to keep money in their bank accounts above US$100 or ZiG equivalent for at least 30 days, will not accrue bank charges.  Madam Speaker, the issue of bank charges has been raised in this debate ahead of me by other Hon. Members and it is important that the speaker brought it.  The issue is a serious incentive for people to keep money in the banks and therefore gives our banks means by which they can grow themselves if people have to keep money, but it also assists our communities in terms of public safety in the sense that people will no longer be keeping money at home.  People now have an incentive to keep money in the bank so long as it will not be accruing bank charges.

     Madam Speaker, a friend of mine from the banks of Save River told me a story that as children when they were growing up, their mothers would show them the chicken to be slaughtered for dinner and point at it.  I am going to the river to look for water so you must catch this chicken, but do not kill it, wait for me.  You can put the water on the fire in the meantime.  They would then catch this chicken and somehow, they believed that the chicken would sleep if they sing, but the reality is that the chicken would be tired from running. So they would sing a song which my friend says the lyrics say, chikuku vata, vata Mai vaenda kuSave.

Madam Speaker, this is luring the chicken and I think that the announcement by the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion is luring us to take our monies to the banks, but at some point, something might happen.  We are aware of the possibility of a geje announcement that might come when we have kept our monies at the banks.  

     THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Bajila, you are referring to the Minister’s ministerial statement which the Minister gave in this House yesterday.  Why did you not ask questions of clarification to the Minister when he gave the ministerial statement?  Why are you now debating that ministerial statement?

     HON. BAJILA:  Thank you Madam Speaker for your guidance.  Madam Speaker, the issue here is that the matter of deposit protection becomes even more important now as you are having incentives to keep our money at banks.  Incentives to keep our money at banks gives rise to the need for deposit protection, Madam Speaker.

     THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  So, you must debate the motion of depositors’ protection, not to debate the ministerial statement which was given by the Minister yesterday.

     HON. BAJILA:  Madam Speaker, the Bible in Mathew 13 vs 3 -9 – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

     THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  If you keep on defying my orders Hon. Bajila, I will ask you to take your seat.

     HON. BAJILA:  Madam Speaker, you have ordered that I refrain from speaking about…

      *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  If you are going to continue please sit down.  

     HON. BAJILA:  Madam Speaker, I am moving to the next point.

     THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Take your seat.

     HON. MANGONDO:  On a point of order.

     THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order?

     HON. MANGONDO:  My point of order Madam Speaker is that the Hon. Member needs to respect the Chair.  He needs to respect the standing orders of this august House.  We are not at a shebeen here and I think the Hon. Member needs to apologise or really should vacate the House.  I thank you.

     THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Mangondo.  I am sure he has taken note of that and he will not repeat it.  Please proceed.

     HON. BAJILA:  Thank you Madam Speaker for your guidance.  The Bible in Mathew 13 vs 3-9 – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker may I be protected?

      THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Can we have order in the House Hon. Members?  

     HON. BAJILA:  In the Bible, Jesus Christ himself spoke to issues of deposit protection in his two parables.  The parable of the sower and the parable of talents.  In the parable of the sower, Jesus gives four different places where people can put their seeds in and we need to ask ourselves as this House, as our people put their money in institutions that are members of the Deposit Protection, whether their monies are going to fall on fertile land, thorny land, rocky land or whether their monies are going to fall on sandy land.

     Madam Speaker, the motion proposed by Hon. Jere and supported by Hon. Chiduwa moves us to make amendments to the Deposit Protection Act and I stand in support of that motion.  Madam Speaker ,Hon. Mushoriwa made reference in his earlier debate on this motion about the need to prevent directors of defunct banks from further participation in the economy.  Hon. Nyabane moved further to say such people who had their banks going defunct must be charged of murder but Hon. Mandiwanzira warned us saying in doing this thing, we must know that business such as banking is a result of trial and error.  People can get into business and then it can fail here and there.  In Isindebele, we say, inkomo kaisia khunywa inyawo yoba iskhathi isigade.  We are simply saying that if you are milking a cow and it happens to kick that small bucket where you put your milk, you do not have to cut its foot.  You need to assist it until it can be able to stand while you are milking it.

     I am saying this, to say some of the amendments to the Deposit Protection Act, we need to look into the fate of directors of defunct banks and not say they are banned forever from participating within the banking sector or economy in whatever way, as was proposed by Hon. Mushoriwa, supported by Hon. Nyabani.  I am proposing that in dealing with this issue of directors of defunct banks, the amendment must set up some time during which they cannot participate as directors, further of banks, not a permanent ban.  That is my proposal to that extent.

I move on to issues relating to Section 6 of the Deposit Protection Act, which speaks around the directors of the Deposit Protection Corporation.  I propose that there be addition of representatives of consumers.  If you check Section 6 of the Act, it speaks to representatives of the banks.  It speaks to somebody appointed by the Minister.  It speaks to representatives of the business, but there is no representation of the consumers out there.  We might need to amend this section and add an institution such as the Consumer Council of Zimbabwe so that it can be included as part of the directorship of the Deposit Protection Corporation, and that it can represent the interests of the consumers.  At the end of the day, when banks collapse, it is the consumers who suffer the most.  When banks collapse, it is us who will have taken our monies to the banks and we no longer find them.

     Those who were in this House will understand that this matter is important, specifically if you listen to Hon. Nyabani speaking about how he had his money at Interfin and then he went to Bindura, he was told there was no more Interfin.  He moves further and his money is nowhere.  I say the consumer at the end of the day needs to be represented within the Deposit Protection Corporation because the consumer has their money in those institutions.  Lastly, I wish to say that there must be means by which the Deposit Protection Corporation must continuously assess whether its members, its contributors are still capable of handling their functions well, so that if there are signs to a failure, that failure is quickly remedied.  We have seen in recent times those who believe that the capacity of women to lead must be scandalised.  We have seen them in recent times, doing all they can to hand-over companies that are at the verge of collapse to women.  When those companies finally collapse and actually go defunct, the blame then goes to women but they would have already been appointed at a time when those who are in office understand that this company is about to collapse.  It will be important therefore, for the Deposit Protection Corporation to set up systems by which it can monitor, evaluate and be able to detect possible systems by which a bank can collapse.  I submit.

     HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Jere.  I would like to start by appreciating the mover who brought this important motion at an opportune time when the country is witnessing currency reforms and other financial reforms aimed at bringing back confidence of the consumers to the banking sector.  The mover, Hon. Jere, made it clear that the legal reforms that were initiated to offer protection of depositors and investors starting from 2012 and they are still in place at present, have been falling short of achieving the intended objectives.  Therefore, the mover stated clearly that there is need for the Minister of Finance to come up with comprehensive legislation that protects the depositors and investors.  

     It is important to make sure that if we need economic stability in this country, depositors and investors’ interest must be protected.  Therefore, I understand deposit protection as a scheme established by Government to protect deposits by consumers, by providing a comprehensive compensation in the event of a bank failure.  I would like to move on to the advantages of having this scheme.  This scheme will promote consumer confidence in the banking sector.  This is very important because it is something that is lacking in this country since the day when we had problems with the financial sector in this country.  

Therefore, I strongly support the motion by the mover as it will help us to build the much-needed investor confidence.  One of the questions that are being asked by the people we represent, is that are we going to have confidence in the financial sector again?  These are legislative reforms which can actually help to bring the much-needed confidence.  The mover bemoaned the serious decline of investor confidence of the banking sector in this country.  Therefore, the other advantages that the Deposit Protection laws if they are comprehensive, if they are adequate enough, they will then provide for the development of this public confidence in the banking sector.

     If it happens, deposits in the banking will actually grow.  If the confidence in the banking sector grows, then it means we are going to have people moving their money from their homes to the banks.  This enables the smooth functioning of the banking sector. Therefore, this is the reason why we are supporting this motion.

     Comprehensive deposit protection can also act as a risk minimiser. It will minimise the risk of people losing their money. If people work, they do not want to wake up the following day not knowing what will happen to their hard-earned savings. If someone deposits their money in the bank, it is a good thing if someone then knows there is a guarantee that if the bank fails tomorrow, they will be able to get their savings. In so doing, we will see even the foreigners who are actually participating in our economic sector starting to make deposits in our banking sector. If you go across Zambezi, you will find that in Zambia, there is a bank of China there. It is because their banking and financial system has managed to build the much-needed confidence whereby even other foreign banks would also come. We will see our economy growing if this happens.

      Deposit protection will also reduce panic withdrawal of cash by investors and consumers. If someone reads in the newspaper that this bank is likely to collapse, people will go and withdraw the cash and it will bring a negative impact to the economy, but if consumers are aware that nothing will happen to their investments as they are protected by law and they will get what they would have deposited, there will be no panic withdrawal of cash. This is also another reason why we would want to see this law being amended, the current laws the Minister of Finance is bringing to this House are comprehensive laws to make sure that we bring back the much-needed confidence.

      I remember when we were growing up in the 1980s, it was actually a good thing to hear that you were going to the bank and it was something that we were proud of or even to have a bank book. I remember POSB used to have those green books. Even when you were a child going to school or a student, holding a bank card was something that we were proud of.

      I would want to end by making two recommendations that yes, I understand the current law makes it mandatory that all the financial institutions must be members of the Deposit Protection Corporation and this must actually be made very strong, that will instil compliance. The second recommendation is to make sure that there are timely or continuous updates on the risk assessment. The DPC must be equipped with the necessary human resources to do risk assessment, continuously update the consumers and investors in terms of the performance of the banks who are actually members to the corporation. This will also help the depositors to make necessary investment decisions. I thank you and it is my hope to see this law coming to this House before the end of this year.

     HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion by Hon. Jere on deposit protection. In Zimbabwe, we have DPC whose mandate is to ensure that the depositors are secure and are given peace of mind that when they deposit, in the event of bank failure, they will salvage something and I want to emphasise the word, ‘something’ on whatever they will have lost.

I agree totally with the mover of the motion that the efforts of the DPC are inadequate in that when somebody tells you that I have ensured yourself, what that person is saying is I will return you to your original position before the occurrence of the event. So if you have a car, you are insured and in the event of loss of that vehicle, you will get your vehicle back. Now, I see the DPC saying in the event of losing your money, we will give you US$500 or anything less. If it is Z$ before ZiG, it will be Z$1 million.

If we look at the financial assets in this country today, they run into billions and billions of monies, both USD and Z$. So, if we are only going to insure US$500, what that will mean is if I have $20 000, I can only part with $500 into the bank because if the bank fails, I will only get $500. So, in a way, the corporation’s insurance policy is discouraging banking. All monies now are found in people’s houses instead of them going to the bank. People are now scared of banking because there were failures. Some told me that if you wanted to rob a bank, you do not have to buy guns to do that. Just open a bank, three months down the line, people put their monies and you then declare failure and the DPC will pay $500 even if it is a million and you keep the million and roam the streets freely. Some say we can allow these people to come back into the banking sector and steal again.

I tell you Madam Speaker; we need to be stringent and strong about protecting the banking public.  People who bank have confidence in the probity, solvency and capacity of those financial institutions. So we give them our monies so that they look after our monies and invest it and help the business to develop, but we find some people taking that money borrowing from our savings, abusing that money and then there is bank failure. The major culprit there is the banking sector and the RB. Its supervision must come up with strong regulations in terms of who opens the bank. Not everybody who is interested in coming up with a bank should be allowed to open a bank to steal our money.

The DPC looks after depositors at the end of the whole chain of events when the bank has failed and we go to the DPC where they give you less than what you had entrusted in the bank. I think DPC must also be somehow involved at the onset when banks are registered. They now have experience on those and some of them have failed to contribute their premiums at DPC. I strongly advocate that the DPC Act must be revamped. It must go in tandem with the present trends. Insurance must be insurance. I should have peace of mind of getting my money back than to be half insured. If it is insurance, it must be honest. So, the regulations must be very strong.

Those corporate veils, Madam Speaker I will tell you, I worked at the regulation system. There are requirements for you to register a financial institution. For you to be part of the directors and run a financial institution you must not own more than 5%. What do they do those who are clever or who are very criminal, if I were to say? They will come and look for their friends who have nothing to do with banking, they have no expertise and say I will give you 5% and you 10%, 3% and there is 100% ownership. The bank is owned by one individual. All others are just a smokescreen. When the bank fails that is when you discover that it was Mr. Jones alone. Everyone else was just there to destruct or lie to the Registrar of Banks.

      We need our banking sector to come back. The only way to deal with that is to discard and make sure that those bad apples are out of the banking system. We do not want them. DPC and RBZ must be very strong and strict. Our only oversight here is the Budget and Finance Committee – when are you going to call DPC to give you the reasons why we have these challenges in the banking sector. When are you going to call the banking supervision from the RBZ to tell us why they are not paying interest instead they take out people’s monies? You put US$100 after two years and there is nothing. They are not adding anything but they are lending out our monies making billions. When are you going to call them to order?

      It is very critical that when we want our business to grow, the financial system is the lifeblood of the economy. Without borrowing, lending and liquidity in the banks, the whole economy will suffer. Money does business. If you want to do business, you do not do it with your money. You borrow from the bank but the bank is empty because nobody wants to bank with people who will in turn abuse your money. There is a bank and another company related to that bank, they take our money and invest in related companies and those companies then fail and the bank declares insolvency. It is a whole chain of criminals. It is critical that as Parliament, we come up with strong laws and regulations to ensure that if DPC has to survive, it must do  its job. This law, which seeks to compensate half  of what the members have contributed must be revised. Those banks must pay corresponding premiums to what they hold in the banks so that they feel that if we do not play ball, we will lose all this money. They must be encouraged to invest in Government assets that we can liquidate to compensate members of the public when they lose their money.

     They invest everywhere else where you cannot even trace where the money went. They create some pseudo companies. That company comes to borrow money from this bank as a way of siphoning people’s money out of the bank and then claim that there was a bad repayment of loans so we cannot proceed as a bank. We need to be serious. All of these people whose banks failed, I think we need to lift the corporate vlei and know exactly who and who were involved in the failed bank. There is a systemic risk. Many people would want to move away from the banking sector. Honest banks are not doing well now because people are not banking. Some people failed members of the public.

     My prayer is that even all the banks who failed 20 years ago, we need a study on what could have been the reason so that when we discover that, we may now put regulations and supervision which will be adequate to protect members of the public. We now have our new strong currency which is covered by our gold and minerals but if the banking sector fails to do its work and expect that when they fail DPC will then pay those who have lost their monies.   I think the bark should stop at the point when we register banks to do business in Zimbabwe.

I heard some other people saying Government must do what. These institutions like DPC and RBZ are given this mandate by Government. Government does that because it wants to protect the weak who are members of the public, maybe aybe the laws are not adequate. Parliament must relook at some of these laws and ensure that the DPC has teeth, banking supervision has teeth so that those who  want to come into the banking sector as an avenue of stealing  see their days in prison.

       I want to say to the mover and seconder that this is a timely motion where we should interrogate the present laws that govern the supervision of banks, their stability, probity and solvency. Those laws must be revamped to protect even our currency so that people have confidence in the banking sector again. We can only do that if we are proactive as Parliament through the Committee on Budget and Finance. Propose laws that can protect and do research on previous failures so that we ensure that we have enough regulations to protect members of our communities who  want to keep their monies in the banks and ensure development of our economy.

      It is very critical and I do not know how I could raise that but I pray that if Parliament can institute an investigation on past failures and present grievances of our people with the banking sector and recommend to the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion what can be done to improve the financial stability of our country. That will serve as an incentive for our people so that they deposit and keep their monies in banks. Robberies are everywhere today because money is kept under the pillow. People are failing to deposit because there is so and so who is abusing the trust they were given by members of the public who deposited their monies in the banks.

     This is a timely motion which, for its completeness let us investigate and encourage more regulations to protect our people who want to save their monies in the banks. I thank you.

      HON. TOGAREPI:  Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

      HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.

      Motion put and agreed to.

       Debate to resume: Tuesday, 7^th May, 2024.

      On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. N. NDLOVU, the House adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Six o’clock p.m until Tuesday, 7^th May, 2024. 

 

 

SENATE HANSARD 11 APRIL 2024 VOL 33 NO 42

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 11^th April, 2024

The Senate met at Half–past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

         THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Today, being a Thursday, it is Questions Without Notice but I have a long list of apologies. I have received the following apologies from Hon. Ministers:

Hon. Dr. S. N. Nyoni, Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife;

Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture;

Hon. B. Rwodzi, Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry;

Hon. T. Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry;

Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri, Minister of Defence;

Hon. J. Mhlanga, Deputy Minister of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development;

Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Local Government and Public Works;

Hon. B. Kabikira, Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works;

Hon. Sen. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;

Hon. S. Chikomo, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;

Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;  

Hon. C. Sanyatwe, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;

Hon. O. Mazungunye, Deputy Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs;

Hon. O. Marupi, Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services;

Hon. Z. Soda, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;

Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;

Hon. S. Sibanda, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;

Hon. T. Moyo, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;

Hon. A. Gata, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;

Hon. N. Ndlovu, Minister of Industry and Commerce;

Hon. E. Moyo, Minister of Energy and Power Development;

Hon. Y. Simbanegavi, Deputy Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities;

Hon. Dr. A. Masuka, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement;

Hon. V. Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Development;

Hon. D. Marapira, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Development;

Hon. Dr. D. Mombeshora, Minister of Health and Child Care;

Hon Dr. S. T. Kwidini, Deputy Minister of Health and Child Care; In the Chamber, I would like to welcome Hon. Ministers for fulfilling your constitutional obligation to be here and respond to the Senators issues. Thank you very for coming. I have got;

Hon. Prof. A. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;

Hon. F. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development;

Hon. M. Mavhunga, Minister of Veterans of the Liberation Struggle;

Hon. K. Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion;

Hon. J. Sacco, Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.

Once again welcome. Hon Senators, you may field your questions.

     +HON. SEN. PHUTI: I rise on a point of order. I can see that Hon. Ministers are taking the business of Senate seriously. If you look at Hon. Ministers attendance in the National Assembly, it is not the same as in the Senate and we are troubled by this development.

      THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The import of your question was that you have expressed dismay at the fact that we have got a long list of Ministers who are absent and yet in the National Assembly, they appear to honour their obligations. I share the same views with you.

      Hon. Sen. Sibanda having stood up to debate on the same issue.

     There is no supplementary. Is it the same as the issue raised by Hon. Sen. Phuti? We have already dealt with it. I have agreed with you that we are dismayed. I do not know what other language I can use. We are really saddened that we do not have a full bench of Ministers and we will convey to the relevant office. Rest assured, I am as concerned as you are Hon Members. It worries me.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

     *HON. SEN CHITSAMBA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance.  I would like to know if the ZiG can be used to procure fuel or pay for acquisition of passports?

     THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. MNANGAGWA):  Hon. President of the Senate, I was hoping that all the questions on the ZiG can be asked after I present my statement today.

     THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE:  I will give you the chance to ask your questions after the statement.

     *HON. SEN. MDLULI: My question was also on the same issue so I will wait.

     +HON SEN. NYATHI:  My question was also directed to the Minister of Finance

     *HON. SEN MALULEKE:  My question is directed to the Minister of War Veterans.  People need to know how far you have gone after they were vetted.

     THE MINISTER OF VETERANS OF THE LIBERATION STRUGGLE (HON. MAVHUNGA):  Thank you Hon. Sen for the pertinent question.  I want to say in 2022, we started on the process of vetting of those who assisted in the war of liberation struggle, that is the (mujibhas and chimbwindos).  We will gazette the names of those we vetted so people can have a say on whether or not they really assisted. We had however stopped the process because most of those involved in the struggle had not gotten the opportunity to participate.  So in this year’s budget, we got RTGs 41.3 billion to enable us to continue the vetting process.  We will continue to vet those who were left out and then we can gazette all the names at the same time.  That will enable us to then be able to assist them once the process is completed.

      +HON. SEN. MOYO:  Thank you Hon. President of the Senate.  I want to ask the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. What is being done about scholarships?  We have seen children of vendors who are not being supported most of the times, especially from Matebeleland South.  There are so many children who are not going to school who need the scholarships and their parents are vendors.  I want to know what is being done to cater for these children.

      THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA):  Thank you for the question Hon. Senator.  Allow me to say that there is nothing wrong with vending.  It is just done at different scales.  Big shops are vending, people can vend individually, so there is nothing wrong with selling things if it is being done legally.  However, we are talking about people who might not be having enough resources, be it vendors or not.  I just wanted to be very clear that vending is not a crime and does not reduce the status of a person in society.

      Now, when it comes to our policy, it is that we want every Zimbabwean head to be in tertiary education, they can be in colleges or universities.  It is because these are the people who will make this country strong by being able to produce the things that we need, from food to shelter, water, transport and everything else.  It comes from our education.  So we want as many of our…[technical fault]

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We have some more Ministers who have just joined us: - The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; and the Minister of National Housing. Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, you are responding to the question by Hon. Sen. Moyo. You may continue now that we have got power back.

 HON. PROF.  MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. President. I started by a preamble where I said the issue of our students who cannot afford, no matter who gave birth to them, I had asked that we should not refer to vendors as if big shops are not vending too, they are just small scale. So, I did not want to subscribe to the fact that there is a profession that we disparage. However, let us talk about our students who might not be in a position to pay fees and what is Government policy and our programmes that are meant for that.

Mr. President, we as a Government, our policy is that we should use every Zimbabwean brain and give it access to education, not as a privilege to them but as a privilege to the nation because we need their knowledge, we need their skill, we need their attitude to make this country strong and formidable, where it can be able to provide for its own food, for its own water, for its own shelter, for its own communications and transport. So, it is very important that we take our students through the process of making this country strong through their capabilities that are developed through education.

We therefore, have a policy where if students cannot afford, we have two programmes. One programme is that of work for fees programme which we started in 2018, but strengthened starting from 2019 where students who cannot afford approach their department of Student Affairs where they state their plight and then they are helped through the work for fees programme.

The second programme is where we have a Student Loan programme that was signed off by the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion by that time on 17^th July 2018, where we put money in CBZ for our students to be able to access through a loan facility. This facility has not been that popular. Our students have not been availing themselves to take this loan. However, the Work for Fees programme is a very popular programme where students are able to state their plight and they can be helped. It is big at the UZ and MSU, being the two of our biggest universities where our students are given a chance to work and then their fees are paid through that process.

The spirit is to make our people access education because it is national interest that they are able to be educated so that they begin to build this country, brick upon brick or stone upon stone for this country, to attain the necessary dignity so that it earns respect with itself, its neighbours, near and far. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. KADUNGURE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. Can you not afford to support students who have left this country through scholarships, sometimes they may have passed and spent three years without doing anything? I thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF.  MURWIRA): Thank you Mr. President. I thank Hon. Sen. Kadungure for that question, that says students who attain education outside the country spend many years without working. What I did not quite understand is that after graduation, they will not be employed.  Is that the case?   If that is the case, let me continue.  The students who attain their education in countries like the Russian Federation, from the past three years, we are given the names of such students before they complete their education so that we understand what they will be learning. This will enable us to take them to universities or to institutions where they can get employment.  We have started doing this and we started two years ago. We have seen that it is working well, but there is a problem with some degree programmes like law and medical professions.  

      Mr. President, for medical practitioners, we realised that for students who have studied law, they need to do what we call conversion so that they may practice.  There are some, especially doctors, it took quite some time - I think it used to take a year or three years for them to be able to practice.  Mr. President, we have since changed that to ensure that they are quickly employable after going through an observation period in clinics.  I believe this is what I have understood, the Hon. Senator was referring to scholarships.

      *HON. SEN. TONGOGARA:  Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development.  I would like the Hon. Minister to inform this august House on what is happening on our roads, with regards to some people who are using unregistered vehicles.

     THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Tongogara, your question is not clear.  The mics are not on, so we cannot proceed.  

      Hon. Senators, it appears the problem is bigger than we thought it was. The hopes of fixing the problem within the next few minutes are actually fading. We are going to have to adjourn since we cannot record proceedings as is supposed to happen.

I am going to ask the Deputy Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion to make a statement when we resume sitting. I think you owe it to the Senators to make a statement and clarify the issues about the recent monetary developments that took place in our country on Friday. Agreed?

     THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. K. D. MNANGAGWA): Yes.

     On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA), the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Four Minutes past Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 7^th May, 2024.

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 10 APRIL 2024 VOL 50 NO 44

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

        THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following apologies from the Executive: Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture; Hon. T. Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Tourism and Hospitality; Hon. O.C.Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence; Hon. F. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. S. Chikomo, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; Hon. Z. Ziyambi, Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Mazungunye, Deputy Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; Hon. Z. Soda, Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. A. Gata, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. M. N. Ndlovu, Minister of Industry and Commerce and Hon. V. Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development.

COLLECTION OF CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS DOCUMENT

        THE HON. SPEAKER: May I inform the House that there are hard copies of the Code of Conduct and Ethics document for Members of Parliament. These are now available in the Journals Office No. 104 for collection by Hon. Members. You are duly advised to please get a copy for yourselves.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

       *HON. NYABANI: Good afternoon Hon. Speaker. I want to find out from the Leader of Government Business that when an offence of stock theft has occurred, those that steal cattle are the ones that are spending ten years. Now, thieves have realised this and they are now stealing smaller livestock and they are fined or given community service work. What measures is Government going to put in place to ensure that stiffer penalties are imposed on those thieves that are stealing goats and chickens because goats and chickens all fall under livestock?

        *THE MINISTER HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I would like to thank Hon. Nyabani for the question as regards stock thefts. We are aware that if you steal cattle, you will spend nine years in prison but for a goat and other types of livestock, a fine is imposed. He wants to find out what Government policy is. What he suggested is a good idea.

It will also give us a chance to look at the law and see if we can bring it before the august House for amendments so that culprits are sentenced to stiffer sentences.  If you have goats, you treasure them just as cattle.  All livestock owners should be protected in terms of the law.  We are not against what he has suggested.  We will bring the amendment to this august House. Thank you.

        *HON. S. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, the stealing of small animals has been going on for a long time and we are losing that type of livestock.  Therefore, there are people who are being used to steal the small livestock.  What is government policy concerning those who use hired vehicles to transport stolen livestock? Thank you.

       *HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  We talk of one who helps a criminal and if you have helped a criminal, you have also stolen.  So, if a report has been made, it becomes a case and if no case is reported, then there is no case.  As we speak, those who assist thieves are in complicit with offenders. If you assisted a thief, you are a thief.  Thank you Hon. Speaker.

       +HON. A. MPOFU:  Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development.  What measures are being taken to assist 15% of people living with disabilities?  Is there a database of how many of them have been given land?  Thank you.

        THE HON. SPEAKER: What is Government land policy concerning 15% of people living with disabilities?

THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank the Hon. Member for the timely question.  The land policy is guided by legislation and the Constitution. Of course, first we have 20% for veterans of the struggle.  We also have a policy where 20% is reserved for the youths and we discriminate positively for people living with disabilities.  Ordinarily, 10% of the land is reserved for allocation to special circumstances. In the past, I have liaised with the Office of the Special Advisor to the President on Disabilities, to get lists of people living with disabilities across the country to avail them land.  So if there are any specific issues relating to people living with disabilities who have been discriminated against Mr. Speaker Sir, I would appreciate if the Hon. Member could avail additional information.  I thank you.

*HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  On the issue of people who live with disability in terms of land being apportioned to them and the issue about others who have been oppressed in terms of that issue, I categorically want to state that no one, nationwide, has specifically catered for those who live with disabilities.  It is an issue that needs to be looked into so that it will not be a talk show…

*THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, you are now giving an explanation.  May you ask the question please?

*HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  My question therefore is, are there any that were allocated because we require the database for those that were allocated, who live with disability, who were issued with land?

*HON. DR. MASUKA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question.  Yes, we may provide them with names of people living with disabilities who were allocated land.  I have also requested the Hon. Member to provide information on those who may have been discriminated against and this will add to the numbers of people living with disabilities who have already been allocated land.

I have already said that we are able to provide those lists and also want them to submit names of such persons so that they may be included in the database.

*THE HON. SPEAKER: When are you going to bring this evidence?

*HON. DR. MASUKA: Mr. Speaker, I will send the evidence this evening.  Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: On WhatsApp!] –

*THE HON. SPEAKER: Not on WhatsApp because it will be recorded in the Hansard.

*HON. MASHONGANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary to the Hon. Minister is, as you issue land to people that are living with disabilities, are you also giving them the startup implements to ensure that they will be able to start farming?  Are you giving them any other form of assistance so that they are able to till the land?

*HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  This is quite a good question.  At the moment, we do not have anything in place to empower those who are given land.  What we simply do is to give them the programmes that are in place and what exactly they can start on including tractor that can be acquired from AFC, Women’s Empowerment Bank, CBZ Bank and other Government programmes that are in place. That is what we have in place and what we disclose to all farmers in terms of forms of assistance.  If there are any other bright ideas that you can use to assist these people, I would be more than grateful to receive them.  I thank you.

        HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question is in connection with the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion.  What assurance can the Minister give this House and the nation at large that the new currency (ZiG) will succeed, given the history of excessive printing of money at the Central Bank and the confidence deficit that we have in the market? I thank you.

     THE HON. SPEAKER: Were you in the House yesterday Hon. Tsvangirai?

     HON. TSVANGIRAI: Yes, I was in the House Hon. Speaker.

      THE HON. SPEAKER:  Do you recall the request for a ministerial statement?

      HON. TSVANGIRAI: Yes, I do.

      THE HON. SPEAKER: So, why are you jumping the gun?  That question will arise once the ministerial statement is tabled. Every Member of Parliament will have time to ask such questions in that context.

      HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, but I would also like to know when…

      THE HON. SPEAKER: There is no ‘but’ when you tell me, I act accordingly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I do not want to hear nyaya dzekunzi gara pasi, you are not in the Chair.

       HON. NDUDZO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Leader of Government Business.  What are the policy measures in place to make sure that when taxpayers’ money is expended by Government departments, agencies, and other arms of Government on foreign trips and travels, there are tangible and measurable benefits that can be achieved by the nation through such trips to avoid having money spent on trips that do not bring anything to the general public?  I thank you.

        THE HON. SPEAKER: That question is ruled out of order because, in terms of our Standing Orders which the Hon. Members should be aware of, every external trip is supposed to be reported on officially in the House.  Such reports have been tendered in the House with recommendations of what has been learnt from the trips.

       *HON. P. ZHOU:  Good afternoon Hon. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works.  How far have you gone in ensuring that provincial councils become functional?  Are there any difficulties that you are encountering so that they can start working?

       *THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. KABIKIRA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  As we speak, our legal officers in conjunction with the Attorney-General, are finalising the Bill elsewhere so that it can be brought to Parliament.  We are expediting the process so that it comes to Parliament and that the provincial councils can quickly start working.  I thank you.

               HON. P. ZHOU: What does the law say in terms of their remuneration?  Are they being remunerated or not?

          HON. KABIKIRA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.   We envisage a situation where they will start working in the following month so that they can be remunerated once they start meeting.

        HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  My supplementary question to the Minister of Local Government is, when do you think that the Bill can come to Parliament?

         HON. KABIKIRA: Mr. Speaker Sir.  We expect to bring the Bill to Parliament in the next three months.  I thank you.

          HON. ENG. MHANGWA:  The Minister has mentioned that they will start having their meetings in a month.  The Bill is only coming in three months.  What is the basis of the meeting, and is there a necessary provision for them to meet, and under what circumstances?

        HON. KABIKIRA: Maybe I can repeat.  There is a workshop currently underway whereby lawyers from the Ministry and the Attorney-General are seized with clear directives that they should finish that Bill so that it comes to Parliament as soon as possible.  I will get proper feedback next week in terms of how far they are. That is why I said within three months because at this stage, without getting the feedback from that workshop, I cannot give definitive timelines but it is a matter that is high on the agenda and we want to bring the Bill to Parliament as soon as possible.  Probably, the Hon. Member did not hear me correctly when I said they would start sitting in next few months.

        HON. M. NKOMO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My question, is directed to the Minister of Youth Empowerment Development and Vocational Training Centres.  What initiatives are in place to promote vocational training and skills development for youths in rural areas?

         THE HON. SPEAKER:  Vocational institutions fall under the Ministry of Youth Empowerment Development and Vocational Training Centres.

       THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT AND VOCATIONAL TRAINING CENTRES (HON. MUPAMHANGA):  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  The Ministry of Youth Empowerment Development and Vocational Training Centres is seized with the matter of upgrading and upscaling our vocational training centres as well as vocational outreach programmes in areas where there are no centres.  So currently yes, there is a comprehensive programme for vocational training for skills transfer to young people as well as an initiative to reach out to communities where training centres do not exist at the moment.  Thank you.

         HON. MAVHUNGA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I wanted to ask the Minister, in light of upgrading the vocational training centres across the country, what is your position in moving towards information communication technology, especially when you look at artificial intelligence, some of the programmes are obsolete.  So what is your position in terms of ICT in vocational centres?

         THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, can you rephrase your question again?

         HON. MAVHUNGA:  The Hon. Minister said that they are in the process of upgrading vocational centres across the country and I am asking the Minister what their position is when it comes to information communication technology, especially artificial intelligence in those vocational training centres? 

       THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, in the process of upgrading, are you taking that into account Hon. Minister?

          HON. MUPAMHANGA:  We are also considering ICT and we are in liaison with the relevant Ministry as well as encouraging our VCTs to form partnerships with the private sector in order to speed up the process of bringing ICT and other technologies to our vocational training centres.  Thank you.

       HON. MUWODZERI:  My question Mr. Speaker goes to the Minister of Health and Child Care.  Mr. Speaker Sir, 97% of Government employees are members of the Public Service Medical Aid Society, but as those members try to seek medical attention, they are turned down due to nonpayment by the Public Service Medical Aid Society and they are asked to pay cash up front.  We wanted to know what steps are being taken by the Minster to make sure Government remit to the Public Service Medical Aid Society on time.  Also, we have seen a number of funeral assurance companies charging us in USD.

        THE HON. SPEAKER:  Stick to one question.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. KWIDINI):  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Let me thank the Hon. Member who has asked the question.  Yes, as the Ministry, we appreciate what he is saying about the remittances of the monies being paid by the civil servants in terms of their medical aid.  As for now, there are some mechanisms which we have put in place to make sure that all the medical services which are being rendered by PSMAS, there is a board which has been set up such that it can resume to make sure all the services are provided by PSMAS and the Government is remitting the money to PSMAS, such that everyone will receive the proper service.  I submit.

        HON. MUTSEYAMI:  My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister, I just have to put it to him that from last year up to now, PSMAS has not been giving any service.  Now that the board has been put in place and the presentation that has just been done by the Hon. Minister, when are they going to give the services to the civil servants including myself?  I am suffering the fate as well as my grandmother.  Thank you.

       HON. DR. KWIDINI:  Thank you. Yes Mr. Speaker Sir, PSMAS was offering services as from last year.  It is only that some of its facilities were not offering, but some members were receiving services from Government hospitals, especially the private side of the Government hospitals.  Also, some of its facilities were not fully functional, but most of them were receiving the services.

      HON. KARENYI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary question is, at the moment, they are also taking money from these civil servants.  Are they going to compensate all these monies because these people are not receiving the service?

       HON. DR. KWIDINI:  On this one I think I need to go back and check such that we approach the other stakeholder, the Ministry, which is also responsible for that – [HON. MEMBERS:  inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. SPEAKER:  I think it is a fair response.  Allow the Minister to go and do his research and give you a properly researched response.

I have just cross checked with the Government Chief Whip vis-a vis the request about the new currency and the Hon. Minister is ready to give a statement on how it works, but it will have to be after our question sessions.

*HON. S. TSHUMA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  My question goes to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development.  As we face a drought this year and more so when the people in the communal lands make a living out of selling their livestock whenever there is a drought, the Government does not adequately provide food to them.  

There are certain areas where livestock movement is banned because of diseases a short while ago. What measures has the Ministry put in place, as Government, to allow the movement of such livestock to see if there are still diseases that will necessitate the banning of movement of livestock from certain areas so that farmers can sell their livestock and buy food to feed their families?

        *THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.  Before I respond to this question, let me state that we did not have adequate rainfall. A lot of areas are going to experience food shortages this year until the next rain season.  The Government has put in place, together with the Ministry headed by Minister July Moyo, a programme to ensure that all households countrywide are provided with adequate food stuffs until next year.

        Coming to his question on the issue of livestock movement, it is because we want to contain the disease in a small area.  We have diseases such as January or tick-bone diseases, we confine them so that the disease is not spread to other areas.  The best we could do to ensure that we contain the disease is that our veterinary experts will give 30 days in one area or three months in other areas that livestock, could they be pigs or any other livestock with such a disease be contained.  That is the best method that we can use for ensuring that other areas cannot continue selling their livestock.  With the confinement being made to that small geographical area, they should stick to the stated days, but I would want to find out if he has a place where this has taken place, where there are no veterinary scientists who can look into that area so that we can assist the people once the ban is over.  

We only allow movement of livestock once the period of the ban has expired because if we allow this, we may fail to contain the disease.  A month ago, it was said if you want to buy cattle for movement from one area to another, those that are disease infected should not attempt. That livestock which is not yet affected can be moved from the red zone to safer zones.  However, we were told in terms of which areas were red zones and we assisted them.

        *HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question to the Minister is, what measures has Government put in place to ensure that we have cattle sales locally so that cattle are not transported over long distances.

       *HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question, which is pertinent.  In different places, we have observed that farmers are busy now de-stocking because they are worried about the quantities of the feed that they have, for instance in Matabeleland South, the cattle that are sold from January to February, we observed that the quantities have gone up by 43%.  So, the majority are selling their cattle.

       As the relevant Ministry, we urge farmers to stop rushing to sell their livestock.  They should only sell those old oxen and cows.  The heifers and other young cows, we should keep them in stock so that we can use artificial insemination to ensure that we have pastures for the calves so that they cannot sell their cattle.  In the past, we used to have the Cold Storage Commission (CSC).  We used to have the market days that will be published.  We had 287 selling places countrywide.  When CSC failed its operation, that was lost.  This is the arrangement now with the district councils.  We are in the process of trying to revive such activities so that farmers can be able to buy and sell cattle.  We have allowed the Agricultural Marketing Authority to do that process.  They have been to Zvishavane, hoping that this time they would go to Matabeleland South to try and revive such areas.  We also have programmes to ensure that with the Presidential Rural Development Programme, where we say this year we would want to have two villages on line where water is easily accessed, we should have a place where the cattle can have access to food so that we do not just sell cattle and realise very little in return.  I thank you.

         *HON. MUROMBEDZI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  My supplementary to the Minister is, why there has been bans for movement of cattle is because of the diseases.  What measures did the Government put in place to ensure that we have dipping places so that the diseases would not affect the cattle countrywide?  

       *HON. DR. MASUKA: The issue of dip tanks - since 2016 up to 2022, we lost 500 000 cattle because of diseases.  In 2020, in the agricultural transformation strategy, we started to come up with two programmes.  The first was to revive the issue of dip tanks.  We have more than 4 000 dip tanks.  Then, we came up with boreholes and we desilted those so that every household where there are cattle, we give tick grease for them to apply on the ears, backs and tails of the cattle.  It lessened the cattle affected with skin diseases. We had 49% decrease and the following year, it was 23% downward effects on the number of cattle affected.  We have now revived 3 000 dip tanks out of 4 000.  We believe that this year we can be able to revive 500 more dip tanks.

       *HON. CHIGUMBU: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government.  What is the Government’s Human Settlement Policy pertaining to the invasion of sites left for school construction, especially in the urban areas?  Thank you.   

        THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHITANDO): The blue print which was launched by His Excellency on the 1^st of November is very clear and it states very categorically that all illegal occupation of land is not allowed and where there is such information, I would request that the Hon. Member brings it up and the requisite follow up would be done. I thank you.

         HON. CHIGUMBU: Thank you for the response. I would want to know because we have school spaces which were invaded by land barons and houses were built yet you find that in most urban areas, kids are crowding in classes. A school which is supposed to accommodate less than 800 kids is now accommodating more than 3 000 kids. What are you going to do and what is the Government policy pertaining taking back those areas such that they are given back to the communities so that they can build schools to cater for the children in those particular communities?

        THE HON. SPEAKER: Your question Hon. Chigumbu titivates towards specific problem areas and the Hon. Minister indicated that if you have such instances, why not give that information to the Hon. Minister? The Government policy has been pronounced already in the call for action among local authorities and perhaps, the Hon. Minister of Local Government, if you can spare some copies of that policy statement by His Excellency, the President, you can send it to the Hon. Members on soft copies so that they can read for themselves. Is that possible Hon. Minister?

         HON. CHITANDO: It is very possible and we can send the copies tomorrow morning.

        *HON. MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What is Government policy on the transportation of maize from GMD going to the wards? People are saying the MP should ferry the maize from GMB to the wards, but most MPs are not able to do that and this means some of the areas will be left behind in getting the maize. Thank you.

           *THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker.  On the question raised by the Hon. Member in connection with ferrying maize from GMB to the community; the Government can do that from            GMB up to the ward where the maize is distributed to the people, but nowadays, the problem was that most of those people who ferry the maize from GMB are failing to do so because they do not have money. There is nothing wrong if an MP is able to assist and there is nowhere where it says the MP must assist, but there is nothing wrong if he is able to assist his constituents and we encourage that and people will be happy. Thank you.

*HON. MAKUMBE: Thank you Hon. Speaker and I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the response. Social Welfare people are saying it is a must that the MP should ferry the maize to the wards. An MP can assist with USD200 or you can assist with fuel. If you have so many wards, for example 15, and each ward requires 30 tonnes to be ferried to their ward, how can the MP assist in such a case?

         *HON. J. MOYO: Hon. Speaker, I would want to reiterate that when one is a Member of Parliament and is capable, he can assist the people even other people who are in a position to assist the ordinary people should do so. It is the Government’s obligation to ferry the grain, but at times, we do not pay the transporters timely. As a result, they will end up suffering. So, the point is if anyone is able to assist in alleviating the challenges that we are facing, we should not just look at the Government to provide the solution.  More so, as Government, we do not encourage the habit of asking the vulnerable people to pay for the transport cost.

        HON. CHIDUWA: I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister as to who is responsible for the ferrying of maize meal from the depots to the distribution centres? I say so because your department of social welfare now requires that the ordinary vehicles that we have in the communal lands should have bulk insurance. Is it policy that even small trucks secure bulk  insurance since it is affecting the transportation of maize?

         *HON. J. MOYO: My understanding Hon. Speaker is that all public service vehicles are required to be insured. Therefore, they must be insured and beyond that, public service vehicles at law are required to be insured. Therefore, there cannot be any separation between insurance being required for urban public service vehicle operators and non-insurance for rural public service transporters. Let me make a research on this issue and I will come back and give the feedback.

       *THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister said he is going to make a research on this issue and after the research, he will come back and give us feedback and we will take it up from there.

       HON. DR. MUTODI: My point is outside what you have said. I wanted to know because the first person who asked the…

        THE HON. SPEAKER: No, if you want clarity, you ask your supplementary question to clarify. I will not allow it because the Chief Whips agreed that not more than two supplementary questions from either side. I am so guided by the Chief Whips.

      HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and good afternoon.

       THE. HON. SPEAKER: Good afternoon.

       HON. KANGAUSARU: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.  My question pertains to the ongoing transition towards the paperless judiciary, a laudable initiative aimed at improving efficiency and access to justice.  However, I am deeply concerned about the technological divide plugging our rural communities where significant sections of the population lack access to the internet and basic technology…

       THE. HON. SPEAKER: Your question Hon. Member?

       HON. KANGAUSARU: The question is, can you outline the steps being taken to ensure inclusive access to the paperless judiciary for communal communities?  What measures are being implemented to bridge the divide access gap in the rural areas?  I submit.

       THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON.  PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I wish to thank Hon. Kangausaru for the question relating to the digitisation of our judiciary services case management systems.  Yes, we subscribe to the policy of a smart Zimbabwe where we will be able to digitise our systems but in doing this, we know we cannot build the wall in one day.  The policy is very clear that we want to reach every corner of the country, but we will do it brick by brick and with a policy of leaving no place and no one behind in relation to Section 13 of the National Constitution.  So, in terms of the law and our policies, we are moving brick by brick and we will be able to cover all areas.  It is a process, there is no policy conflict, it is only a matter of process and the time that the process takes.  I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

       HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you very much for such a detailed account but considering the potential for increased cost associated with internet access and technology, my supplementary question is; how will the Ministry ensure the affordability and accessibility of the paperless system for low-income individuals and communities?  Are there financial assistance programmes for subsidy access points invisible?  

HON. PROF. MURWIRA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Our

aim as a Government, under the leadership of Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa, is to provide access and affordable access to information and our policy there is very clear. The issue that we are talking about is the process and the time that it takes to cover our aspirations.  There is always a gap between aspiration and the process of reaching that aspiration.  We are narrowing that gap Hon. Speaker Sir.  I thank you.

        HON. CHIGUMBU: I want to ask the Hon. Minister, according to what you have said.  I think the electronic system has already been rolled out.  What are they doing to make sure that those areas which are not connected are accessing that system?  Do we have the dual system that is working, or we are now depending on the E-system that is in place?

       HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  I wish to thank the Hon. Member for seeking clarification.  The systems always work in dual mode so that if one is not working the other one is working, especially for areas where there is no access.  There is no way we can enforce an electronic system where there are not transmitters.  So, the policy is very clear.  We are talking about the issue being dealt with within the fullness of time.  I thank you.

         HON. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA: Supplementary Mr. Speaker Sir!

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you have forgotten.  I said I am guided by the agreement between the Chief Whips that we should allow not more than two supplementary questions.

 HON. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA: This one is very important Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Appeal to your Chief Whips to change policies.

HON. TOBAIWA: Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Good afternoon.

HON. TOBAIWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care.  What is the Government policy with regards to the provision of drugs in Government hospitals to treat the occupation or health hazard of silica which is affecting and has claimed the lives of so many young people in most mining towns?  I thank you.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. KWIDINI): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.  Thank you Hon. Member for asking the question.  The Government policy is such that everything is now in place.  We start by detecting the most challenges that cause those diseases.

Now, of course, the drugs provision with the Ministry or Government at large, is now in a position such that all the drugs that are supposed to treat those diseases are in place.  I thank you. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–

HON. MUROMBEDZI: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.  My supplementary question is, what are the Government plans to reduce the incidents levels of these occupational health related diseases?

HON. DR. KWIDINI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. The Government plans and policies is to make sure before licencing the mining companies that are operating and causing the diseases are made to undertake all preventive measures to ensure that those diseases and health problems do not arise.  Then if those diseases are to come up in big numbers, then there will be need to revisit the company or organisation such that we make sure that our people are protected.  I thank you.

HON. KAPOIKILU: Hon. Speaker, is it mandatory in these mines to do lung function tests on these workers regularly to check for FEV1, FVC, Proximal Interruption of the Pulmonary Artery (PIPA), FEV, over AVC to detect the diseases early and to monitor the disease process?

HON. DR. KWIDINI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank also the Hon. Member with the supplementary question.  It is very true as each and everyone knows that it is mandatory for anyone who is working where there is exposure to have a routine check-up so as to prevent all these complications.  So, the Government is to make sure that all these mandatory check-ups are done every six months or so.  I thank you.

        HON. CHIDUWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion.  Over time, we have seen quite several companies de-listing from the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange and some preferring to the list on the Victoria Falls Stock Exchange (VFex).  So, I wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister what is Government policy regarding the regulation and management of the cannibalism of the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange by VFex?

        THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. NCUBE): I thank Hon. Chiduwa for the question Madam Speaker Ma’am.  He is correct, some companies have been de-listed from the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange and then listed on the VFex, the Victoria Falls Stock Exchange.  There is a specific criterion that they have to meet, is quite a rigorous process and there is a Committee that considers all the applications and it goes to the board under the Stock Exchange of VFex on whether that specific company qualifies or not.  There are rules and guidelines, so they do not just list, they have to satisfy those guidelines.  Those guidelines are driven by policy and the policies that the companies ought to demonstrate are that they have a strong component in their revenues that is export-oriented, that is hard currency oriented because we want to make sure that we promote companies that export in terms of listing on VFex.  

       We also want companies to be able to show that they will be able to raise capital globally and abroad because we are trying to encourage foreign direct investment through the listings on VFex.  So, I will say their criteria are quite strict. I do not think any company has managed to list on Vfex without having to satisfy those very strict criteria.  I thank you.

        HON. DR. MUTODI: Hon. Minister, the market conditions in general do not support the efficient functioning of stock markets and these include money supply growth, exchange rate movements, inflation and interest rates and the positive correlation between inflation and interest rates.  What is the Government policy towards stabilising the stock markets?

        HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: While I appreciate his question, it is a different question, it is not a supplementary question.  If you allow me to answer it, I am happy to do so.  

        What is going to happen is as follows: - with the introduction of the new currency, ZiG, you will notice that the volatility in terms of prices and the currency itself is going to change, and that volatility is going to come down sharply.  This will go a long way in stabilising all prices including asset prices being the stock market prices.  So, the currency change in the first place is one such factor that will impact positively on equity price volatility.  

       Hon. Mutodi mentioned the issue of interest rates, it is certainly true that interest rates are high, they turn to take away capital from equity markets towards the money market where interest rates operate.  So now with the introduction of the new currency framework, we have seen interest rates also drop from an average of 130% down to 20% in terms of the policy rate as a guiding rate.  Therefore, that interest rate change will also go a long way in creating stability in asset prices. So, I think the Hon. Member will see some changes in the stock market going forward.

        There are also certain rules that were put in place such as having to buy and hold for a while for selling to restrict any speculative behaviour in the equity market.  We are reviewing those rules and will make announcements once we have completed our review to make sure that we restore the efficient functioning of this capital market.  I thank you.

       HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  Before I ask my question, if your memory serves you right, the other time when you were on the Chair, I appealed to the Minister of Health and Child Care on the request of bringing a statement on obstetric fistula in this House.  We have been waiting since December up to now and that statement has not come.

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nyamupinga for reminding me.  I will ask the Hon. Deputy Minister to take note of that.  

       HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  Since the Government is talking about e-governance, what commitment is there to help persons with disabilities to benefit?  I would want to know the plans that they have to give them more access to software and gadgets.  For example, we have just heard about a monetary policy and deaf people do not even know what was said on the monetary policy.  There was no sign language.  Up to now, the deaf community does not know what is happening in terms of the monetary policy. So, if it is the issue of accessibility, how far has the Government gone and what plans does the Government have for the people with disability in terms of accessibility?

       THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR, AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker.  The Government has a budget item for assistive devices for people living with disabilities.  This includes those with hearing challenges as well as those who have challenges in seeing where they are going.  These assistive devices are given to people living with disabilities based on the allocation that we have been given.  For this year, I know that we have been given some money to buy those assistive devices, but I cannot be able to tell exactly which devices are going to be bought using the money that has been allocated.  I thank you.

     HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA: My question was split where I was saying up to now as we speak, the deaf people have not heard about the Monetary Policy.  Is it going to be read again for them or is there something that they are preparing so that it is distributed to that community so that no one is left behind?

       THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M NCUBE): I have the pleasure of responding to that question.  It is a question about communication that we should not leave everyone behind.  I agree with the semantic import of the question that we ought to make sure those who are visually impaired or those who are deaf are catered for as well.  

So, the communications team in the Treasury is working with the Ministry of Information and Publicity and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe to put together a communication strategy that will cover everybody and leave no one behind.  It is worth doing a summary of the Monetary policy statement in Braille.  I will inform the Reserve Bank Governor to move with speed on that one.  I thank you.

      HON.  MHETU:  Madam Speaker, what is Government policy on import duty of assistive devices used by people with disabilities like sunscreen applied by people with albinism, wheelchairs and clutches?  

        THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):  The assistive devices for those who are disabled are imported duty free, whether it is the creams for those living with albinism, hearing aids, wheel chairs and so forth.  The import duties are waived there.  If there are areas where we need to extend further provision to make sure that those who are disabled are assisted, I am happy to receive those to make sure that everything that they are able to bring in, is duty free, and they are supported so that they can compete with some of us who are abled.  I thank you.

        HON. MHETU:  I would want to ask the Hon. Minister, when did this law come that the assistive devices are duty free because as of last year, I remember of a certain organisation where their sunscreen was confiscated by ZIMRA due to non-payment of duty which was to the tune of 150 000?  If you could check the article in the Chronicle of 7^th March, 2023.

        HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  I thank the Hon. Member for that very important question.  This was done three years ago in this Parliament. We passed, in the Finance Bill, a provision that the creams should not pay any duty.  So, I am very surprised by this case.  I am happy to investigate it to make sure that those who need these creams are assisted accordingly.  I am very surprised actually by this example but there it is. I will check on it.  Thank you.

       HON. S. TSHUMA:  On that same follow up note, I wanted to find out from the Minister, what is Government policy pertaining to the importation and the payment of duty for donated items from the underprivileged or for people who seek to donate to people in Zimbabwe?  We always have ZIMRA demanding duty for things that are donated. What is the Government policy on that?

        HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  Madam Speaker, it depends as to what is being donated.  If someone is donating some highly valuable equipment which is going to compete with what is locally produced and we have a duty to protect local industry, you may find a slightly tougher ZIMRA as you approach the border, but if you are donating something that is really meant to support our vulnerable citizens and is not going to compare unduly with what we produce locally, they will be softer.  

Let me just say, it depends but we have a list.  The code is very clear.  Those who work with the Customs code will know what is dutiable and what is not, but I must say I get a lot of these appeals Madam Speaker, and some of them I accept.  I support and some of them I do not support.  So, there is always room to appeal to the Minister for any of these donations.  If the case is strong and we feel that it should be supported, we tend to support it.  We are flexible.  Thank you.

       *HON. MUDUMI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is, what is the Government policy regarding war veterans and war collaborators?  They have been vetted before with promises that the Government wanted to look into their welfare.  Can the Government not install boreholes because the Government is not showing mercy and also supporting the work that they did during the struggle?  Thank you.

       *THE MINISTER OF VETERANS OF THE LIBERATION STRUGGLE (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA):  Thank you Madam President, and I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his pertinent question which shows that he really feels for the liberators.  I think you are all aware that there was once vetting which was done on the collaborators and I reported here that there were some who were successful and were supposed to finish the whole process which we think that in this vote allocation this year, we were given money to complete the exercise.  If we know that all have been vetted, it will be gazetted and then after that, we would look at how they will be helped on whatever their needs are.  We want to empower them in terms of how they are living like what the Hon. Member has alluded to, but we are still in the process of doing that.  Thank you.

      *HON. HAMAUSWA:  I wanted to ask the Hon. Minister what is Government policy that when they will be vetting, there will be no discrimination, especially looking at our politics that at times I can be a war collaborator but now I am in the opposition, then they will say that I am no longer a war collaborator?

        *HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA:  Thank you Hon. Hamauswa for seeking clarification.  When you are in Government, we are not political, we are apolitical.  Our vetting is only done with those who we were with during the war, which means that those people who do investigations are people who are not involved in politics.  They have guided questions which they ask pertaining to those areas.  What it means is that during the war, when you got to a place there were signs that they used. So those questions will be asked.  You should do what you used to do during the war, the signs and signals that were used during the war.  Thank you.

       *HON. NHARI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to ask the Minister, there were people who were vetted and were successful but they are late now.  They did not get anything.  My question is, is Government going to look into their children and their families’ needs or because of them passing on, it is a chapter closed?

       * HON. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank Hon. Nhari for seeking clarification.  When they are vetted or registered, they are given a paper which show that they have been successful.  So, everyone is granted their rights.  Even in our Ministry, we have war liberators who died but still their families are getting help.  In the Ministry, we also look at war victims because some of them are late and they were not vetted whilst they were alive but the law looks into that; as long as they have receipts that show they have been vetted.

       *HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Lands and Agriculture.  What is the Government policy when it comes to growing maize in winter and also small grains, considering that we are faced with a drought?  

       *THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA):  Thank you Madam Speaker.   The question is on how the small grains and maize, can be grown in winter, since we are faced with drought.  The last time I came here, I talked about four things that we should be aware of, so that we know what we are supposed to do.  Firstly, the small amounts that we have in our granary.  Secondly, the few produce that we are going to harvest.  Thirdly, we look at where we can import maize.  Then fourthly, what can we grow in winter and in that is where his question is based on, on the fourth item.  

        We saw that if we grow wheat and small grains, farmers will get a lot of money by growing wheat instead of growing small grains in most areas of Zimbabwe.  There are very few places like in Kanyemba, Bulawayo, Beitbridge and Chiredzi, where we can have about 3 200 hectares, which we have identified that people who can grow maize and small grains.  They can harvest more than those who grow wheat.  Those are the small areas that we are targeting but the big hectares are going to be designated for wheat growing.  Those who have irrigation which are complete or almost complete, can use it in winter because we really want to grow large so that our country will have enough food.  We have plans with AFC cold ped-stock, who specialise in ped-stock.  They have a small fund which can help the farmers but those farmers should rush there now because we are seized with the farming for winter crops.  Thank you.  

        *HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question to the Minister is that as the Ministry of Agriculture, do you have any plans with ZESA, because many water bodies do not have electricity? Are you engaging the Ministry of Energy so that they provide transformers for irrigation?

       *HON. MASUKA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question.  I think the Minister of Energy and Power Development is here.  He can answer for himself.  Thank you.

      THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO): If I got him well, the issue is of transformers, that there are certain areas where there are no transformers to facilitate irrigation.  We have an agreement with the Ministry of Agriculture to provide electricity.  We know that our infrastructure is dilapidated but we are in a process to revamp most of our infrastructure.  If there are areas where there are no electricity and transformers, just let us know which areas, then we see what we can do, since we are faced with a national catastrophe of hunger, we need to irrigate. I thank you.

       HON. M. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service.  What is the Government policy with regards to Government employees who are office holders in other institutions like council after the 2023 Harmonised Elections?

       THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO): The Constitution is very clear in terms of holding office after winning in an election in any political party while you are a Government employee. The policy does not deny such Government employees to be office holders in other institutions after they won in an election.  They are citizens of Zimbabwe they belong to political parties.

       HON. M. SIBANDA: I think this one matters because the service delivery is being compromised as the person will be engaged in other duties like one is a councillor at the same time is a Government employee.

       HON. J. MOYO: Hon. Madam Speaker, I was just saying the Constitution is clear but if the Hon. Member has a specific place where service delivery is compromised because of that, he should put it in writing so that we can look into it.

       *HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines.  There are about two or three years when our President, Hon. Mnangagwa said that minerals are no longer being mined and exported in raw form without beneficiation.  I want to particularly speak about the road from Macheke to Mutare.  There are a lot of trucks using that road carrying granite.  Up to now, those stones are still being carried, going to Mozambique.  At first, we thought it would come to an end.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Zemura, please ask your question.

HON. ZEMURA: My question is, is it Government policy that what the President talked about is not being followed? People are exporting granite stones outside the country?

        *THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank you Hon. Zemura for your question. Your question is in line with the issue of beneficiation so that they can be used here in Zimbabwe and not leave us here with open pits. This is the policy which was talked about by the President, and we are following it especially when he talked two years ago when he was referring to lithium. There is no lithium which is going out raw.

It can be referring to other minerals, but what is known is that there is no policy that our minerals should go as ore. They should be exported after beneficiation, but this was in line with minerals which are known like when it comes to granite. We have granite companies, but if there are special circumstances, they should be known and investigated so that we would be able to clearly say how this precious stone was taken as ore.

*HON. MUCHEMWA: I want to ask about corporate social responsibility which is done by our mining companies in the rural areas. We heard that starting from now, communities are now being given 2%. I want to find out when the community is going to benefit from the 2%. Thank you.

      *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is not a new question. It is in line with the damage that is being done on the roads and the mining companies should rehabilitate those roads.

       *HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. I want to say that our Constitution on the Mines and Minerals Act, I think it was brought into this House so that this should be dealt with once and for all by you Hon. Members. We are waiting so that all these should be rectified through that law, and we are looking at you Hon. Member so that you take up this and we finalise it once and for all.

       HON. MADZIVANYIKA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion. On the 15^th March, 2024, the Government introduced S.I. 51, adding more companies to the Mutapa Investment Fund with the intention to make them profitable and recoup to support Government programmes as well as to benefit future generations. My question is one of the companies that we saw was ZESA Holdings. Looking at the nature of this company and the type of production, what was the rationale of adding ZESA on the Mutapa Fund to make it profitable? Thank you.

        THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. D. K. MNANGAGWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to highlight to the Hon. Member that the Mutapa Investment Fund does not fall under the auspices of the Ministry of Finance, but rather under the ambit of the Office of the President and Cabinet. With that being said, we will take this inquiry and present a paper on behalf of this institution so that we give you the rationale so that if there are any more questions on Mutapa Investment Fund, if they can put them on paper,  we will come back with a composite response to that. I thank you.

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister. Hon. Madzivanyika, please may you put your question in writing.

      *HON. HAMAUSWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.  Hon. Minister, looking at access to local staple food, Members of Parliament in other areas are being asked to transport maize from the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) and we are hearing it again in this august House.  What is Government policy, so that all Members of Parliament are aware of what is happening in our country, especially when it comes to the distribution of maize so that we are equally troubled that we should transport maize to our constituencies?

        THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. JULY MOYO): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member.  I think we have devised a system in this record assessment that we are doing together with the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development, but it will be centred at the village.  Every village head is required by law to call a village assembly and we have said all the 35 000 village heads should immediately call these village assemblies to preside over who qualifies to have assistance.  This is going on right now as I speak, we have given them a deadline that we should have all these papers by the 15^th of April this month.  

During these processes, all the citizens in a village and those Members of Parliament who come from the rural areas belong to these villages and they have a right to attend to those villages and influence to make sure that no one who deserves is left behind.  So that is number one. Number two, once that has been written and we know that the course of this EL-Nino induced drought, we are going to have more people than what we have been having since last year’s bumper harvest.  We expect that there will be so much demand to carry the food to the people and that demand requires that we have a whole of Government approach, and so we are doing everything to mobilise resources so that we can carry this food.

We also have a whole of society approach that anybody who is able to assist including Members of Parliament, should assist.  Now, the Members of Parliament who assist must also say to themselves, the food is going to be distributed by the village heads, supported now this time by Social Welfare Officers, and other Government functionaries because the President has declared it a disaster. All the civil protection systems that start at Cabinet and a Committee chaired by the Minister of Local Government and Public Works and in the provinces by Ministers of State, in the district by the District Development Coordinators, in the wards and in the villages by either the chief, headman or the village head, but with all of us assisting.

  We are trying to do this so that no one can accuse anybody that we have not been approached in order to say what we need.  We have been testing this on the ground to see whether it is working. So I have gone to Bubi, Mangwe, Buhera and Zvishavane just to test to see what is happening in regards to people participation.  We have even set up, everywhere where we are distributing food, such that there can be a ‘complaints desk’.  The complaints desk will be manned by the village heads and is manned by women, youths and these people who will have complaints can go to that desk to find out why they have been left out.  

In our analysis, where we have gone in the case of Mangwe where World Food Programme (WFP) was distributing, there were some genuine people who had been left out or who had lost their cards and genuinely the World Food Programme was able to correct it.  In areas where we were distributing, there were complaints about the numbers that we were asked to deal with distribution or who were being given food were too few.  We asked the village heads how the selection was done and they were able to demonstrate and the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development was there.  They were able to demonstrate that we selected the neediest and we challenged everybody who wanted to be on the list to see whether they had more needy cases than those who were selected and we were very happy with this community-based selection mechanisms, but everyone as we move forward in order to overcome this, we have to say we must support the programme in whatever we want to do.  Let us not put the burden of cost to those who are beneficiaries. That is why this issue of who carries the food must be stated very clearly that we cannot ask the beneficiaries to contribute to the carrying of their food.  I thank you.

*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I am happy to hear the Hon. Minister saying that the hunger issue has been declared a national disaster.  My question is, when he said we did not hear him saying that it is only affecting those in the rural areas, I want to ask the Hon. Minister whether he is aware that there is what is called ruralisation of urban areas? This means that there is also frightening hunger in the urban areas.

So, with that in mind, what is Government policy that when you visited Bubi, you should come and say that you were in Mufakose and assessing the hungry people there because there are no village heads in urban areas?  What are you going to do for the community-based selection to happen in urban areas?

HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker and this is very important question regarding the urban areas.  We are distributing in the rural areas following the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Livelihood Assessment (ZMLA), that ZIMLA demonstrated to us what was needed in the rural areas, at 2.7 million people and going forward we are basing it on the ground.  

We are aware that there is food insecurity in the urban areas and as I speak, we are finalising, through the Food and Nutrition Council, the ZMLA assessment that is taking place in all urban areas and as in the past instead of distributing food, we sometimes distribute cash for food and that will take place.  So, when the President announced a cocktail of areas where there will be need for assistance, the urban areas are not excluded.  As to how the selection process takes place, we know that urban areas are divided into wards and in those wards, there will be Committees that will be selecting people who they think are food insecure and those selection processes have been going on, and we will continue to use the wards as selection processes based on the communities in those wards.  

So, everybody again will be involved, but the issue of how and when it will be done is as soon as we have the ZMLA urban assessment which is taking place.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

       *HON. NYABANI:  My question to the Hon. Minister is based on the issue of well-wishers.  Certain wards may not be able to get assistance, so, how can people in these wards be assisted in terms of collecting their maize?

        HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Let me emphasise again on the responsibility to carry food from an area which is designated that is GMB to areas designated for the collection of maize, that responsibility is of the Government.  However, any responsible Government will appeal to its people, we have done that with Cyclone Idai, and COVID-19 assistance; the Government is going to do it but there is nothing wrong with appealing to our people to make sure that we participate in any disaster that would have taken place.  

      Once the President declares disaster; we normally also ask those from outside the country but obviously, you start with your people.  All we are saying is the people of Zimbabwe are going to help their Government to alleviate the plight of those who are vulnerable but it does not mean that if there is nobody in that area who can carry the food, the Government folds its hand, we will do our duty but if we can get help, we will accept that assistance.  I thank you.  

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Number 68.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

CONSTRUCTION OF A SCHOOL IN LUVEVE WETLANDS

1. HON. BAJILAasked the Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife to inform the House whether State land opposite the Luveve Zimbabwe Republic Police Station where a school is being built is not a wetland and if so explain whether no Government policy is being violated by such construction?

      THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. NYONI): Thank you, Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank Hon. Bajila for a very important question.

      HON. HADEBE: On a point of order! I am noticing a mass exodus of Ministers and they have always disappointed us.  As I am speaking, a lot of them are moving out.  May you allow me to go to the main entrance and block all the Ministers and bring them to the House?

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Permission is granted.

       HON. DR. NYONI: I greatly appreciate his interest and concern about sustainable environmental management and I urge other members to do the same to be as positive as possible in trying to protect our environment.

My Ministry through the Environmental Management Agency (EMA) has inspected the site and carried out an ecological assessment which brought out the following results: -

1.      Wellspring Primary School, a private school under Musawenkosi Education Trust acquired the land in 2002 and was given a development permit by the City of Bulawayo in 2023.
2.      The land in question is 6.4 hectares in extent.  An ecological assessment done by EMA indicated the following results: -

•           23% (2.736) of the land in question is not a wetland
•           77% (2.937 ha) is a wet land

3.      The structures that have been built by the school are confined to the non-wetland area and are 100 metres away from the edge of the wetland.
4.      Upon enquiry from the local authority, it was highlighted that the school was allocated more land (6.4 Ha) than the usual 3.5 Ha for schools.  This area is in consideration of the ecologically sensitive part of the stand which is not to be built on.
5.      The school was advised that part of their school premises is within a wetland and that there should be no development in the wetland area.

Madam Speaker, the way forward is that wetland areas should be left undisturbed or be considered for low-impact projects such as sports fields.  Secondly, the Environmental Management Agency (EMA) will continuously monitor the site to ensure compliance with environmental laws and regulations of the land.  I thank you.

HON. BAJILA: I would like the Minister to clarify whether she said the school is built on 2,9% of the land or 2,9 hectares of the land.  The broader part of the question is that building a school of that kind, 100 metres away from a wetland in terms of what the Minister has said, the kind of risks that they put learners into in the event of a Cyclone or heavy rains, building a school in such an area.  What is the Government’s position on that?

HON. DR. NYONI: Thank you, Madam Speaker.  Usually, the schools are given over 3 hectares to build their schools but in this case, they were given over 6 hectares.  Only 2,736 hectares are out of the wetland and then the rest is wetland.  The school was then instructed that they should only put buildings within the 48.2% of the land and not encroach into the wet land.  My Ministry through EMA will supervise this.  If they encroach into the wet land, we will stop that.  Thank you.

HON. MUTSEYAMI:  My supplementary question to the attention of the Hon. Minister is, what is the reason of giving access to the school a wet land.  What is the rational because by virtue of them having the land as theirs own, it warrants issues?  Why would the Ministry not allocate a certain part which is not wet land?  Why has the wet land been allocated to the school?  Thank you.

HON. DR. NYONI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I am sure the Hon. Member did not hear when I said the school bought the land from the Bulawayo City Council.  The allocating of land has nothing to do with us.  We only came in when we saw that they were very close to wet land.  So, it was not our responsibility to sell this land to the schools.  I thank you.

COMPENSATION OF COMMUNITIES LIVING AROUND HWANGE NATIONAL PARK

2.  HON. BONDA asked the Minister of Environment, Climate Change and Wildlife to explain to the House the Ministry’s plans to compensate communities living around Hwange Parks who lost domestic livestock and human lives due to human wildlife conflict.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. NYONI):  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for this very important and pertinent question that my Ministry is seized with, and is in a process of establishing human wildlife conflict relief fund.  A point of emphasis to the Hon. Members is that there can never be any compensation for any lost life.  I commiserate with the loss of human life in encounters between humans and wildlife.  

Zimbabwe continues to face numerous challenges of increased human wildlife conflict that threaten people’s safety and their livelihoods.  In 2023 alone, more than 35 people were killed by wildlife and more than 80 were injured.  The consequences of human wildlife conflict are more serious in wildlife areas such as communities around Hwange National Parks.  People lose livestock and crops and yet these are an important part of their livelihoods and incomes, apart from them themselves losing lives.  

In most human wildlife conflict hot spot areas, elephants are second to buffalos in terms of human animal conflict.  We derive a lot of benefits from our big five in terms of tourisms revenue. However, the communities that live close to national parks face tragedy from the increased wildlife population.  To give you a vivid picture Madam Speaker, in Matabeleland North, the elephant population has increased from 49 310 to 61 531.  This was from 2021 to 2022 an increase of 12 221 and this was based on an aerial survey.

Most of the elephants are in Hwange National Park and regularly destroy people’s crops.  They kill people when they are irritated or encounter people.  Government is setting a human wildlife conflict relief fund that will provide relief for the remaining family members of those killed and relief for those injured and maimed.  The fund will be managed by ZimParks, our entity with the involvement of the communities.  In this regard, we have a programme of community consultation on how they want this fund to be structured, how it will be managed and the design of the necessary modalities for evaluations and technical assessments.

Let me point out Madam Speaker that as we provide this relief, we must not forget the challenges we have as a nation and African States as a whole with the only global biosphere with growing wildlife populations.  Otherwise other countries allowed their wildlife to disappear.  

I thank the people of Hwange and other areas as they are the reason why we are setting this fund as Government.  Zimbabwe has an ivory stockpile of 166 221.18kg from 26 906 pieces from inside and outside the parks and wildlife estate.  We have been responsible for keeping these and eliminating poaching at a very high cost which has allowed wildlife to grow.  The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species CITIES banned the international ivory trade in 1989.  In 1997 and 2008 recognising that some Southern African Elephant populations were healthy and well managed.  It permitted Botswana, Namibia and Zimbabwe to make a one-off sale of our ivory.  However, as I speak, we have a whole pool of ivory with a stock net worth of USD 700 million that we are not allowed to sell.  

As an international law abiding country we have complied and are being pushed to keep this stock.  I am glad Hon. Speaker that the Parliament of Zimbabwe, the Senate, the Traditional Leaders from Hwange and other areas, civil society organisations and progressive development sector players have joined Government in fighting this unjustified ban from CITES.  CITES allow us to trade within the guided international law.  If we all do this, we will be able to ensure that people of Hwange and other estates, especially the hot spots are protected while we engage in sustainable wildlife management.  I thank you.

       HON. BONDA: May I thank the Minister for putting the picture of what is happening in the parks and defined what parks are.  I also thank the people of Hwange who are living with the animals for being good custodians of the animals.  Also making a follow up on what the Minister has said, that the big five bring quite a lot of revenue vis-a-viz the CITES that is blocking the sale of horns.  I want to say to the people of Hwange, all what they are asking at the moment is when are you going to provide scholarships for them to live in harmony with the animals.  

        HON. DR. NYONI: As I said, Cabinet passed that we create a Fund. As soon that Fund is in place, we will begin.  I thank you.

       +HON. M. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. What are the measures being taken, especially the private safari operators so that they can revive their fences or boundaries that divide their farms or their Game Parks from the areas where people reside?  Animals like hyenas and other dangerous animals are a threat to people.  These were used as boundaries, but for now they have been destroyed by people.  We understand that these safari rangers make a lot of money after selling these animals.  So we need them to make efforts to revive their boundaries to avoid human and wildlife conflicts.  

       HON. DR. NYONI: I would like to thank Hon. Sibanda for the question.  He posed a very pertinent question.  People in private Safaris have their wish that they could erect the fences that create boundaries between the animals and residential areas.  We once had a meeting with them, they are also complaining that people who reside close to Conservancies and National Parks destroy and vandalise these fences.  Hence, we need us as a Ministry to go and sit down and create awareness to people to teach them that if these fences are erected, they are not supposed to vandalise them because people who vandalise these fences are the very same people who reside in the areas.  We have people from Sabi, Hwange and from all over the country.  We need to have a dialogue with the people who reside close to the Conservatives and traditional leaders so that these fences can be erected.  I agree with the Hon. Member.  We agree that where there are no fences, these animals move out of Game Parks and Conservatives and create conflicts with residents.  They kill people’s livestock and also harm people, hence we need to erect these fences and make sure that these fences are not vandalised.  I thank you.

COMPENSATION FOR HUMAN LIVES AND LIVESTOCK

DUE TO HUMAN-WILDLIFE CONFLICT

3. HON SAGANDIRAasked the Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife to inform the House the following; - a) What the Government policy is regarding wild animals that stray from National Parks threatening human life as well as livestock; and b) What compensation plan is being put in place by the Ministry for people who lose their lives and livestock due to human-wildlife conflict.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. NYONI): Thank you Madam Speaker.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member who asked the question.  I thought most of this question, I have already answered, but I will answer.  The Government policy in regards to wildlife management places human lives at the highest priority, and where human life is threatened by animals, human life takes precedence.  

Wildlife management in Zimbabwe is provided for by the Parks and Wildlife Act, which allows sustainable management and utilisation of wildlife in Parks, Estates, Private properties and Communal areas through rural district councils which are given appropriate authority status.  The Government in 1989 launched the Communal Areas Management Programme for indigenous Resources (CAMPFIRE), which empowered communities living in areas adjacent to Parks Estates and those with wildlife in their areas, to benefit from hunting safaris and they are issued with hunting quota and the proceeds are shared to the communities or used for development needs in the communities.  

In these CAMPFIRE areas, wildlife protection is under the authority of RDCs which also have their rangers who manage poaching and Problem Animal Control (PAC).  These rangers are trained by the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority (ZimParks) and also rendered assistance when there is crisis.  Allocation of hunting quota also helps in managing the populations of wildlife to minimise encroachment into communal lands as they seek for food.  Having water provisions for wildlife in the protected areas as well as in the communal areas to minimise human wildlife interface.  Lobbying the international organisation such as Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES, is a global agreement among Governments that regulate or ban international trade in species under threat, such that we will be allowed to sell our ivory stockpiles to have more resources to reinvest into conservations and community development.

On compensation to people who lose life, recalling Cabinet’s decision of 4^th November, 2022 to establish a Human-Wildlife Conflict Fund, (HWCRF) to provide monetary relief to verified and proved victims of Human Wildlife conflict.  The current Parks Act does not have any provision of compensation of victims or the afflicted, hence the need to expedite the Parks and Wildlife Amendment Bill, which provides for the establishment of the Human Wildlife Conflict Relief Fund. It was felt that the compensation of life or a limb is not possible, hence the use of the erm relief instead.  At the moment, Parks, RDCs and stakeholders are assisting people affected by human wildlife conflict in various ways.

In conclusion, the Human Wildlife Conflict Relief Fund will be financed by the following:  Treasury shall allocate resources as may be appropriated by Parliament.  The Director General of ZimParks in concurrence with Minister, will allocate a wildlife quota to be utilised for funding the Human Wildlife Conflict Relief Fund account and a portion of Carbon credits revenue from Government.  I thank you.

*HON. NYABANI: You said there is no rule that applies. People have lost their lives. Why do you not confine animals on their own? This is why wild animals live in the bush and people live in homes, and the two cannot co-exist. Why do you not secure those camps projects so that the two do not stay together?

        +HON. S. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I believe the same question about fence was asked and I responded to it. I said that those that are in charge of the conservancy of the national parks will erect the fences, but people are destroying those fences. We are prepared to sit down with the people, the National Parks and the people in the conservancies because we want them to live in harmony so that these fences are not vandalised. The Ministry is not the one that is responsible for erecting these fences. Those that are responsible for the fences are the ones who are in charge of the parks and the conservancies. Thank you.

       HON. BONDA: Here we are saying the number of elephants have actually ballooned and there are a lot of elephants. Why is the Ministry not increasing the hunting quota so that the HRDC’s that are being talked about are short funded? I will tell you Madam Speaker, if I am not mistaken, there are 15 elephants per year and yet we are crying that CITES have actually banned us from selling our ivory and here we are, we cannot increase the quota. We are being stingy with the elephants yet the number is so big. Why can we not increase the quota so that hunters can hunt? It is not all about CITES where we get the revenue. We also get revenue from the private sports hunters who hunt the elephants for fun. Why can we not increase the quota and that is where my question is and feed our nation during this time of hunger? People can get some meat from that. Thank you.

        HON. DR. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker. This is a very pertinent question. Indeed, as I said, the elephants in Hwange National Parks alone are increasing in number by over 12 000 a year, which means the population of elephants compared to the space, the food available in the national parks and the water is now over ridden by the number of elephants. I want to commend the Hon. Member because this is what we have also been discussing as a Ministry. Our discussion is this year there is hunger, why can we not add the quota to RDCs so that RDCs will hunt the elephants and feed people that are hungry in the communal areas? We are still negotiating for that and if it passes, I think your question will then be answered by a yes. We need to increase the quota and the Ministry is working on it. Thank you.

DISCHARGE OF TOXIC CHEMICALS IN DEKA RIVER,

HWANGE

4. HON. BONDA asked the Minister Environment, Climate and Wildlife to inform the House what measures the Ministry is taking to stop mining companies and small-scale miners from discharging toxic chemicals into Deka River in Hwange which has become a hazard to aquatic life, humans and livestock.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. NYONI):  Thank you for raising this crucial question regarding the protection of Deka River in Hwange from the environmental impacts of mining activities.  This issue is of grave concern to the Ministry of Environment, Climate and Wildlife, as it poses a significant threat to aquatic ecosystems, human health, and environment.

Contrary to popular belief, the pollution of Deka River is to a result of the discharge of toxic chemicals by current mining companies, but rather a legacy issue caused by years of continuous discharge of Acid Mine Drainage (AMD) from the old Hwange Colliery Company (HCCL) workings.  There are three distinct AMD discharge points around Hwange ad records show that by 1997, AMD was already a considerable problem.

       The initial interventions at the first and oldest discharge point started in 2008, involving the construction of a series of holding ponds to increase retention times and acid neutralisation using lime.  Records indicate that on average, liming has helped increase the pH from around 2 to 3, and the holding ponds have since developed into an artificial wetland system.  The discharge rate at this site is variable, generally averaging about 16 cubic meters per day, with the pattern unrelated to natural seasons, suggesting it is not directly driven by rainwater recharge.

At the second site, the rate of AMD discharge can be as high as about 200 cubic meters per day, with a pH as low as 2.7.  The discharge pattern at this site is yet to be established, but it has generally been increasing over the years to the current rate.  The third discharge point comprises two plugged exploration boreholes, through which the AMD is still seeping out, indicating significant pressure underground.  There exists a risk of new discharge points following the plugging of current ones, as records show a surge in AMD discharge at the second site after plugging the boreholes at the third.

        However, the efforts by the Hwange Colliery Company (HCCL) to mitigate the problem have fallen short.  To address this challenge, the Ministry has implemented several measures to ensure mining activities do not compromise the integrity of water bodies like Deka River. These include:

1.       Collaborative Research: An in-depth study of the AMD problem, in collaboration with research institutions is underway to develop a permanent solution.  A comprehensive study plan outlining the work, equipment needs, and costs has been established.
2.        Strengthened Oversight: Intensified monitoring, enforcement, and auditing of compliance with environmental regulations and permits for responsible disposal of mining waste and chemicals are being implemented.
3.        Stakeholder Engagement: Collaboration with the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development, local authorities and community representatives is ongoing to raise awareness, establish joint task forces and act against offenders.
4.        Pollution Control Measures: Mandating the implementation of appropriate pollution control measures such as tailings dams, waste treatment facilities and containment systems, as well as comprehensive environmental management plans for mining operations, is a priority.
5.         Sustainable Mining Technologies: Promoting cleaner and more sustainable mining technologies that minimise the use of toxic chemicals and reduce hazardous waste generation is encouraged, with guidance provided for environmentally friendly practices.
6.        Community Empowerment: Local communities are being engaged through awareness campaigns to educate them about the risks associated with AMD discharge and the importance of protecting water resources.  This empowers them to report illegal discharges or environmental violations.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, be rest assured, that the Ministry of Environment, Climate and Wildlife remains steadfastly committed to protecting the environment, safeguarding public health, and ensuring sustainable mining practices in our country.  We will continue to take all necessary measures to prevent the discharge of toxic chemicals into Deka River and hold mining companies and small-scale miners accountable for any violations.  We are committed to seeing a measurable improvement in the river’s health in the near future.  Thank you.

HON. BONDA:  Supplementary Hon. Madam Speaker Ma’am! Thank you, Madam Speaker.  Let me be brief with the question.  What social responsibility is being done by the mining companies who are polluting the toxic water to try and mitigate this type of environment degradation that is happening in the Deka River?

        HON. DR. NYONI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Indeed, there should be social responsibility by those who have polluted the river. I think the point is taken.  Let that be followed up and let there be evidence that their toxins have really done A, B, C damage and I think claims should be made by them.  I thank you.

VOCATIONAL TRAINING CENTRES FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN

    THE FRINGES OF GAME PARKS AND RESERVES

5. HON. BONDA askedthe Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife to inform the House what the Ministry’s plans are in so far as establishing Vocational Training Centres to reach co- existing skills with wildlife, to people who live on the fringes of game parks and reserves so that they avoid travelling long distances to access these services.

THE MINISTER OF ENVIROMENT, CLIMATE AND WILDLIFE (HON. DR. NYONI):  Hon. Speaker Sir, the education and training of communities who live on the fringes is of priority importance to Government, in the spirit of leaving no one behind.  In this regard, we are taking the following measures:

1.      ZimParks has Community Extension and Interpretation Officers in the eight (8) regions that are conducting awareness campaigns throughout the country to enhance human-wildlife co-existence.
2.       In addition, ZimParks has a Wildlife College, namely the Zimbabwe Institute of Wildlife Conservation (ZIWC) in Masvingo, which is training Rangers for CAMPFIRE areas and private conservancies.
3.       Further, the Forestry College under Forestry Commission, has also some modules that relate to community–based conservation.
4.       The Vocational Training centre Idea is welcome and further engagements between Zimbabwe Institute of Wildlife Conservation and other training centres in all provinces will be undertaken to enhance wider coverage and provision of wildlife modules
5. Further, the Ministry will consolidate efforts and ensure it assist with parastatals to collaborate with other Government institutions in every province, to ensure local communities are trained in natural resources management to assist with heritage–based conservation efforts.  I thank you.

+HON. BONDA:  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  People who reside within the vicinity of these animals do not understand this issue.  I think it is better we educate these people on the risks that these animals pose and to know how these animals behave rather than taking to these colleges.  They are taken far away to Masvingo, what measures are being taken that these guide lessons can go to Hwange and try to educate and create awareness within the communities in Hwange?  People do not need a lot of education, just basic education.

+HON. DR. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  The Hon. Member is saying the truth that people who reside within these areas are the ones who understand these animals better.  They need to be educated and to be aware of the behaviours of these animals.  I think I made it clear when I started reading that ZIMPARKS has programmes and extensions that are taken to all the regions within the country.  I was asking if the Hon. Member might have a specific area he knows within his constituency that he wants people to be educated, so he should contact personnel from ZIMPARKS.  

We want these vocational training centres and these Technical Colleges to introduce in their curriculum these programmes of creating awareness of wildlife so that we can help the entire nation.

TEACHING OF LOCAL OFFICIAL LANGUAGES

6. HON. BAJILAasked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to inform the House about the primary and secondary schools which are teaching the local official languages as provided for in Section 6 of the Constitution province by province.

        THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. T. MOYO):  Thank you Hon. Bajila for such an important question that addresses the fundamental aspect of our Constitution.  As a Ministry, we have made a deliberate effort to ensure local languages are taught in all schools. As a result, all our 10 600 primary and secondary schools are offering local indigenous languages.

        Some local languages are offered in particular, geographical locations in keeping with where the language is predominantly used for example, Kalanga is offered in schools in the Bulilima and Mangwe Districts, which is in Matabeleland Province.  On the other hand, Tshangani is offered in Chiredzi District, which is in Masvingo Province.  

        I have just provided a snippet of what we are offering since providing the entire list of 10600 schools and the indigenous languages that they offer may be a tedious exercise.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, through the Government Teacher Capacity Programme, we are training more indigenous language teachers to ensure the entrenchment of these learning areas in our schools.  

        The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the celebration of identity, diversity and heritage through the development of indigenous languages in our heritage-based curriculum.

        The Ministry supports the growth of indigenous languages in this 21^st Century era and indigenous languages such as Barwe, Chewa, Nambiya, Ndau, Ndebele, Kalanga, Sesotho, Shona, Tonga, Venda, Tshangani, Xhosa and many others which are used as mediums of instruction at infant level.  

The role of indigenous languages and sustainable development has been emphasised from early childhood learning and this culminates in individuals grounded on knowing who they are, where they came from, and with the capacity to positively impact their own lives and the world at large.  

Indigenous languages due to their nature, document community achievements and heritage, therefore the exposure of our learners to them ensures that a vibrant historical database for generating income is stored.  Furthermore, our schools promote the revitalisation and maintenance of indigenous languages.  

Hon. Members, the beauty of different languages converging in our country is the foundation for future, collaborations and partnerships that will avail a multiplicity of opportunities.

There is a global drive on indigenous languages and multilingualism which is why we have radio lessons that provide the learners with a window to acquire skills to speak more than one language and improve tolerance and peace in the country.  I thank you.

Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 68.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

LAUNCH OF A NEW CURRENCY

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, for allowing me to stand in this august House regarding the recent Monetary Policy Statement Announcement which has resulted in the launch of a new currency.

The Governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe presented the Monetary Policy Statement on the 5^th of April 2024 in terms of Section 46 of the Reserve Bank Act.  The major import of the Monetary Policy Statement is to address the exchange rate and inflation volatilities which have largely been driven by factors such as high demand for foreign currency as a store value, reduced confidence due to continued currency volatility seen in recent months, and a widening margin between the interbank and the parallel market exchange rates.   

Other factors included the reduced use of the local currency for domestic transactions and finally factors such as the lack of certainty and predictability on the exchange rate front.  These are some of the factors impacting exchange rate and inflation volatilities.

To ensure long-term macro stability, the RBZ announced currency reforms which will be complemented by other fiscal and additional monetary measures to restore currency and exchange rate stability.  The new policy framework will be implemented sequentially to ensure lasting stability, certainty and predictability, thereby achieving the desired impact of influential monetary currency and exchange rate stability.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me take this opportunity to highlight the summary of the major contents of the Monetary Policy Statement.

Madam Speaker, the Reserve Bank introduced a structured currency which is generally defined as a currency that is pegged to a specific exchange rate or currency basket and backed by a bundle of foreign exchange assets such as gold for example.  This means that the Central Bank can only issue domestic notes and coins when fully backed by a foreign reserve currency or foreign exchange assets and that the currency is fully convertible into the reserve currency on demand.  The structured currency is anchored by a composite or basket of foreign currency and precious metals and in our case, mainly gold which is held as reserves for this purpose by the Reserve Bank.

       Let me now turn on to the currency swap and conversion mechanism.  The new currency known as the Zimbabwe Gold (ZiG) became effective on 5^th April, 2024, therefore banks have already begun to convert the current Zimbabwe balances into the new currency.  Madam Speaker, the swap rate is guided by the closing interbank exchange rate and the price of gold in the London bullion market as at 5 April, 2024.  The local currency is being converted into ZiG or Zimbabwean Gold by first of all converting the Zimbabwe dollar balances as at 5 April, 2024 to USD balances at the end of the day at exchange rate of 1:33 903.  So that is the first phase of the process.  Then second, converting the equivalent resultant USD balances into ZiG balances at a rate of 1:13.56 ZiG.  So, US$1 per 13.56 ZiG, that is the exchange rate.

If I can pause a little further to explain; 1 ZiG Madam Speaker, is equivalent to 1mg of gold and that amounts to about USD 6c and when we work that one out, you will see why you end up with an exchange rate of US$1 to 13.56 ZiG.  It all starts from the international London bullion gold price.  This rate is being used to make a legitimate conversion of all Zimbabwe dollar deposits in the banking sector, all Zimbabwe dollar loans and advances made by the sector, all Zimbabwe dollar Treasury bills and all outstanding auction allotments, all export surrender obligations, all prices of goods and services in Zimbabwe dollars and any other Zimbabwe dollar denominative obligations.

       Madam Speaker, on conversion of all current Zimbabwean dollar balances, banks are renaming all the current Zimbabwe dollar accounts as ZiG accounts.  The old gold backed digital coin or token accounts, with the acronym GBDT accounts are no longer called ZiG accounts but are now known as GBDD accounts. All Zimbabwe dollar notes and coins held by account holders are being credited into their ZiG accounts using the applicable conversion factor which I have already described.

The banks will continue to accept these deposits for a period of 21 days after 5 April 2024, but Madam Speaker, I have been made aware that we may even need to extend that period.  That is okay so that we can give our citizens, especially in the rural areas that need to travel and be able to convert their Zimbabwe dollars into ZiG currency.

The Reserve Bank has made special arrangements for those without bank accounts to swap their Zimbabwe dollar notes and coins at POSB and AFC commercial bank within 21 days, obviously after 5^th April, 2024.  Madam Speaker, in instances where the cash holding to be exchanged is above ZWL100 000, banks shall apply the requisite ‘know your customer or KWC’ and customer due diligence principles.  

Let me turn to the issuance of the new notes and coins.  The introduction of the new structured currency naturally requires the issuance of new bank notes to facilitate transactions in the economy, specially to cater for small transactions and to ensure the availability of change.  ZiG notes and coins shall be issued in denominations made out of 1 ZiG, 2 ZiG, 5 ZiG, 10 ZiG, 20 ZiG, 50 ZiG, 100 ZiG and 200 ZiG which will be distributed through the usual normal banking channels and will be fully covered by the quantity and value of gold and foreign currency held as reserves.

Madam Speaker, ZiG shall at all times be anchored and fully backed by a composite of basket of reserves comprising foreign currency and precious metals mainly gold, I repeat, but there are also diamonds which are received by the Reserve Bank as part of the in-kind royalties and kept in the volts of the bank.

Foreign currency balances will be accumulated through market purchases, and from the 25% surrender requirements as well as sale of some precious metals received as royalties.  As of 5 April, 2024, the bank which is the RBZ had reserve assets of US$100 million in cash and 2522kg of gold valued at about US$185 million to back the entire local currency component of reserve money which currently stands at 2.6 trillion as of Friday, requiring full cover of gold and cash reserves amounting to US$90 000 000.

Let me pause here and explain.  Madam Speaker, the reserve money as of Friday last week was ZWL2.6 trillion.  Converting this at the exchange rate of 33 000 average which was at the interbank rate, that gives you US$90 million.  So really, the value of the notes and coins in circulation was only US$90 million. When you compare this to the value of the cover which is US$185 million in gold plus US$100 million that is US$285 million worth of cover.  That is more than enough.  So, the gold and cash reserve holdings with the bank represents more than three times cover for the local currency being issued.

Madam Speaker, the intervening exchange rate shall be determined also by the inflation differential between ZiG and USD inflation rates and the movement in the price of the basket of precious minerals held as reserves.  The weights will be determined by the composition of reserve assets.

I now turn to interest rates.  Madam Speaker, the bank policy rate has been adjusted from 130% per annum to 20% per annum consistent with the new Monetary Policy Framework.  The overnight accommodation interest rate has been set at 5% above the bank policy rate, and the bank deposit facility interest rate has been set at 7,5% rate below the bank policy rate, thus giving a starting interest rate corridor of between 11% and 25% per annum.  Savings and time deposit interest rates of ZiG are set at 9% and 7.5% below the bank deposit facility rate of 2.5% respectively while interest rates on FCA deposits remain unchanged at 1% and 2.5% for savings and time deposits respectively.  

Let me turn to the issue of bank charges. Cognisant of the calls of bank charges by the public for affordable and reasonable bank charges, with immediate effect, bank charges have been scraped for both FCA and deposit accounts that maintain a consecutive minimum daily balance of USD100 or below and its equivalent in ZiG for a period of up to 30 days.  This will avoid instances of low-cost accounts being charged interest fees to the point where accounts reach negative balances…

        THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Minister.  Hon. Members, let us listen attentively so that when we ask questions, we ask pertinent questions not petty questions that will eat our precious time with the Minister.  Please let us converse in silence.  You may proceed Hon. Minister.

        HON. PROF. M. NCUBE:  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I will take that again.  Cognisant of the calls by the banking public for reasonable bank charges, with immediate effect, bank charges have been scraped for both FCA and ZiG deposit accounts that maintain a consecutive minimum daily balance of USD100 and below or its equivalent in ZiG for a period of up to 30 days.  This will avoid incidences of low-cost accounts being charged maintenance fees to the point where accounts reach negative balances, and in the process prejudice depositors and discourage potential savings.  With this summary, I hope that Members will appreciate what has been done here in terms of introduction of the new monetary regime.  The main issue being the introduction of a new currency, but also seeing the drop in interest rates among other measures.  It is also a critical step towards our long term de-dolarisation agenda.  It is our hope that this will bring the much-needed currency stability.  Thank you.

        HON. BAJILA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Thank you Minister for the statement.  The statement from the Central Bank indicated that these balances will begin to work from 30^th April.  Civil servants are expecting their salaries from 18^th April, how will civil servants get their monies between that period of 18^th to 30^th of April?  In what current will it be?

HON. DR. MUTODI: I have three or so questions.  Hon. Minister, we understand that where currency is backed by gold or any commodity, there may be external shocks.  How do you intend to deal with external shocks?  Also, you mentioned that banks must apply the know your customer to depositors with 100 000 cash, but look, 100 000 cash is simply $3. 00 if it is converted to USD.  Why doing this Hon. Minister?  My last question is that how is the Central Bank going to ensure that lending rates continue to be at par with inflation, given that if they are below inflation, they will cause speculative borrowings.

My last question is that how is the Central Bank going to ensure that lending rates continue to be at par with inflation, given that if they are below inflation, they will cause speculative borrowing.  Thank you, Madam Speaker.

HON. CHIDUWA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Hon. Speaker, the Minister said we are going to have complementary fiscal policy measures.  I would want to know some of the complementary fiscal policy measures that are going to complement the Monetary Policy Statement that was announced by the Governor.  The last one is that the willing buyer-willing seller ensures a market-based price discovery for the ZiG.  What is Government policy regarding the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange counters that were suspended due to implied exchange rate like Old Mutual and PPC?   I am asking this because we are really concerned with the way the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange is performing.  I submit.

        HON. MATEWU:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to thank the Minister for his Statement.  I just have only two questions.  The Hon. Minister mentioned that we have in reserve about US90 million worth of Zimbabwean dollar.  Does this figure include the money that is being converted, and the Minister said there is enough money to cover that in the reserves?  Have you considered that banks are converting Zimbabwean dollars already in people’s accounts into ZiG?  Is that money covered?  How many Zimbabwean dollars do we have in circulation inclusive of that that is in the bank, inclusive of the money that people hold in their bank accounts?  Is that all covered by the reserves that we have?  

Lastly, are you going to allow citizens to purchase Central Government services such as passports, number plates, such as if you want a licence in ZiG?  Thank you.

        *HON. P. ZHOU:  What plans are there that will make sure that all the Zimbabweans understand the importance of ZiG which is backed by gold?  What plans are there so that all of us understand how it works and how it functions?  I am happy that we have come here, we are few, but the whole country needs to understand the medium of communication that you are going to use.  When this money was unveiled, the prices of groceries have gone up, especially sugar and all the basics.  What plans are there that these groceries should come down to where they were already because we are working with 5 April, but those people have gone further?  ZiG will come when the market has been distorted already and its value will not be recognised. I thank you.

        HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: First of all, I recognise Hon. Bajila and thank him for his question regarding how things will be handled. He is under the impression that ZiG will only begin to work at the end of the month, 30^th April 2024 and yet civil servants will start receiving their salaries from the middle of the month, around 18^th April 2024.

I am happy to say that his understanding is incorrect. ZiG is already effective and civil servants will be able to receive their salaries on time on 18^th April, 2024. What RBZ mentioned really was the issue of availability of hard cash being available later, at least by the 30^th of April. That is the issue, but in terms of receiving electronic payments into their accounts, civil servants will be able to receive these by 18^th April or any time because ZiG is already operational.

        Hon. Mutodi posed a very good question on how we will be able to deal with external shocks if a currency is backed by hard assets such as gold. What we have done is that we will build in a mechanism in anticipation of these shocks. What is happening is that our exchange rate is being driven, not just by the price of hard assets like gold but also, we take into account what we call effective exchange rate which is the inflation differentials between our country and other countries. That inflation differential is also known as the purchasing power parity. What happens is that when there is a shock, those shocks usually show up in inflation shocks. So, by taking into account those inflation differentials, we are able to take into account part of the shocks.

The Z$100 000 is that not too low – it translates to about US$3, yes this has been raised from the public and I am pleased that we will look into it and maybe we need to raise the threshold here. It is correct that the 100 000 is on the low side. We should not be bothering depositors. Certainly, that is a good point.

        How will we ensure that lending rates remain real, in other words they remain above inflation rate all the time so that they do not end up exacerbating the inflationary pressures. We will make sure that when this happens, the correct way to run a monetary policy is always to ensure that we have a positive real interest rate. The interest rate must always remain above the inflation rate. We will ensure that this is the case. In addition to that, we will apply the design of the structured currency which is that we cannot increase domestic liquidity before increasing the reserves in the first place. That must also be applied in addition to the interest rate policy that Hon. Mutodi refers to.

       I now turn to Hon. Chiduwa in terms of the complementary fiscal measures – what measures shall we announce to complement the Monetary Policy Statement. We have a few, but I should not announce them here in Parliament. I will just give an indication. What we have announced for sure is that 50% of the company taxes, corporate taxes will be in ZiG to increase the demand for our currency. We will be very specific when we make the announcement as to which fees and which taxes will be paid in ZiG beyond the request that corporates pay in domestic currency. We will make an announcement in the fullness of time. I will beg for his indulgence on this one and not to make it in Parliament today but we already have an idea.

        Coming to another question and a very important one, what we will do with the counters on the Stock Exchange that were suspended because under the Zimbabwe dollar scenario, their prices were contributing to the parallel market activities. This is how we determine things to be and we felt that this ought to be suspended from the market because that fungibility was really creating challenges in terms of managing the exchange rate system. So, we suspended that and also took away the fungibility characteristics of the stocks. I am happy to say that the issue is under review as I speak and we are making announcements soon on this matter. I do not want to commit specific action but this is under review.

       It is an issue because pensioners want to be able to put some value to their pensions from those specific stocks and some of the pensions, these are large holdings and the pensioners are saying look, we need to put some value. The book value that we last entered into the books was when the stocks were publicly trading but since then we have had an opportunity to make any adjustments. So, it is affecting the value of these pensions, but also affecting value of liquidity of the pensions. So, we are reviewing this.

I now turn to Hon. Matewu who asked about - what does the US$90 million include and secondly, is there adequate cover in a way? The US$90 million really is the reserve money in circulation which is M-zero. Perhaps if you are referring to issues such as the NMCDs, those are not immediately available because we have quarantined these using long term dated Instrument design where the NMCD would be available in a year’s time but in the interim, we will pay an interest to the bank. We have quarantined it that way. We have also quarantined the backlogs from the auction as well through a similar mechanism where we are issuing long dated Instruments. That money is not available immediately. It does not mess up the liquidity projection and the design of the currency. We believe that we have enough cover of this US$90 million without difficulty at all.

You also heard Treasury announcing that in addition to what the RBZ is declaring as reserves of US$285 million, we have an additional US$300 in Treasury which we stand ready to assist the Central Bank if there is a shock to the system.

       On purchase of goods and services in ZiG, this is similar to the question from Hon. Chiduwa. My answer is similar, which is that in the fullness of time we will announce specific services that can be purchased in ZiG as we seek to promote the demand for our local currency. The statement is coming. If I can request the indulgence of Hon. Matewu and this will be announced. We want you to pay some of the services you mentioned in ZiG. Just be patient with me and we will make the announcement sooner.

I now turn to Hon. Zhou who wanted to really make sure we do not leave anyone behind when it comes to educating the public about this new currency. People in rural and urban areas must feel that they are receiving adequate information on how this new currency works. I want to assure Hon. Zhou that we are going to do everything to make sure that this is the case. Putting in place a blitz campaign between the Ministry of Finance, RBZ and Ministry of Information, this communication seeks to do that, which is to educate the public and give them the necessary information on how ZiG works. As Government, we would want this to be acceptable that citizens have got confidence and you can only build that confidence if you communicate and explain how it works in simple language.

      I was suitably impressed seeing some video that was recorded which went viral and is explaining ZiG in very simple language in Shona. I thought this is exactly how we should be communicating to the public out there about the design of such a currency. It is that type of communication that we want to promote, especially in our rural folk to ensure that they gain the confidence in this new currency, understand how it works and they are not left behind.

Hon. Zhou also mentioned that there were some issues in terms of pricing just prior to the introduction of the currency. Some prices were pushed up and will this not affect the operation of the ZiG well, we will take a look at these issues to see what is happening here.  In fact, I am already aware of a situation where some retailer of bread for example; prior to the introduction of ZIG, a loaf of bread was trading for US$1, the price of a dollar in ZIG is 13.56, but the price of bread was rounded off to 14.  There should be no rounding off as it is not a good idea.  That is a price increase and means that the bread is now $1, 3c or 5c as opposed to just $1.  So, we are quite aware of this issue and we are following up with some of the companies to do a proper translation and not to round up, which is contributing to a price increase.  So, I agree with her, it is a statement well-made and we are following up on that.  I thank you for the question.

        HON. TOGAREPI:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

        HON. HAMAUSWA:  I object.

HON. MATEWU:  On a point of order Madam Speaker. Yesterday I raised a point of national interest and the Speaker agreed that all my questions would be answered by the Hon, Minister of Finance.  So, we expect the Hon. Minister of Finance to answer the questions of these members and not just of five members.  I thank you.

       HON. TOGAREPI:  Minister, my question is, when I was doing something in town this afternoon, when ZIG and the transformation of the currency was announced, those street people had run away.  However, this afternoon they were back.  What measures have you put in place to seriously deal with any manipulation or any abuse of our currency as government to defend our currency?

       HON. MUSHORIWA:  Madam Speaker, the President, on 6 February, indicated that we were going to a structured currency and my first question is that if the President said it was the road map, why is it that the RBZ failed to ensure availability of the notes when the changeover was done.  Secondly, why is it that the communication by the RBZ itself was actually so poor to the effect that it has caused confusion amongst the citizens of this country.  Then tied to that Hon. Minister, you had indicated that the fiscal measures that you are going to come up with, you will do them in due course, but if we had followed the pronouncement by the President who had said that both the Monetary and Fiscal Policy were coming up with the complementary, one would have expected that these two statements should have come close to each other and that sort of creates some confusion.  Lastly, what is it that government is going to do because as you are aware Hon. Minister, monetary issues are based more on perception rather than reality?  There is now a joke going around the country and on social media, what is it that you are going to do to curb the perception that the ZIG will just follow the same consequences faced by the bond note?  I thank you.

       THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND INVESTMENT PROMOTION (HON. PROF. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Mushoriwa.  I want to thank Hon. Togarepi for his question where he said that he has noticed that some street traders are back in the street corners and they may start attacking our domestic currency again.  I thank him for that information.  I received similar information as well as early this afternoon.  We are going to send out our law enforcement agency to do their work on a blitz to make sure that these vendors are dealt with.  They are cleared off the streets and then the heavy fines are also imposed on those who are caught trading in the parallel market.  It is illegal. Therefore, if it is illegal, then the law has to take its course.  I am also urging our law enforcement agency to move with speed to deal with this matter.  We cannot allow it.  

       I will now turn to Hon. Mushoriwa regarding the delays perhaps that the notes should have been ready earlier than announced.  Well, you know that it is a major exercise of introducing a new currency.  Many things have been put in place, and even printing a currency is a logistical nightmare, it is not any easy thing to do.  Again, if he could be patient and bear with the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, they have really done their best in making sure that everything is ready.  For instance, we have to change the system in terms of balances which I described.  Some of you are already experiencing that because you have ZiG accounts, you have to print new money.  You have to make sure that the gold in our case is in place, diamonds are in place and there are just so many variables that need to be dealt with to issue a structure of currency.  

Madam Speaker, it is not surprising that may be one or two things did not happen as anticipated, and on time.  It is just a complex issue but I think that the public will understand and I hope Hon. Mushoriwa will also understand.  

       I now turn to the second issue that he raised regarding the announcement of fiscal measures that this should have been done simultaneously.  Not necessarily Madam Speaker Ma’am.  If you notice, we only announced one issue in that Statement which had to do with 50%, the rule that 50% of the corporate taxes should be paid in domestic currency. That is the only thing that was really announced on the fiscal front.  There will be more coming through.  You know, we have just gone through what I will call a very grueling period Madam Speaker Ma’am since the announcement of the 2024 Budget with various tax measures and so forth, making adjustments, sugar content tax, this and that.  We did not want as fiscal authorities, to start announcing further things on the fiscal front.  We have just gone through that.  We think the industry is fairly comfortable now.  We want to make sure they are accountable so that they can continue to employ more people to grow export and so forth.  

Madam Speaker Ma’am, personally, I did not want to start imposing further fiscal measures immediately.  We will do those gradually overtime but something is coming.  That is the reason why we held back on announcing a few fiscal measures after having gone through fiscal measures through the 2024 Budget.  

      On the perception of the currency, that perception is very important.  He is right, a currency also depends on both fundamentals and perception, how it is and how it is managed.  We will do everything to educate the public as to why this currency is strong in the way it is structured.  We have reserves that guarantee the notes and coins in circulation.  We are saying those notes and coins in circulation which is known as reserve money should never be increased before the reserves are increased in the first place, so that matching mechanism really guarantees the stability that citizens are always looking for.  We believe that this is a very good desire and if you have got gold in there as one of the elements, gold has been stable and citizens believe in the value of gold.  It has been stable for a while and in fact, it has been performing strongly in the last few years.

      We believe that educating the public about the design of the currency, how it has been put together will give them a level of confidence.  I would like to urge Hon. Mushoriwa to be confident about ZiG and use it all the time.  It is his currency; it is my currency and it is everybody’s currency.  We should all be proud of it.  After all, a country derives its social pride from the flag, national anthem and also from its currency.  I thank you Madam Speaker.  

     THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister for your presentation.  I would also like to thank you for answering some of our questions. It is very unfortunate for those who decided to leave the House because this was a very important session. I do not know what they are going to tell the electorate because the electorate is waiting to get answers from Members of Parliament.  I hope they are not going to distort the information –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]– Order, the Minister will come tomorrow, he will answer your questions.  

     On the motion of HON. TOGERAPI, seconded by HON. HAMAUSWA the House adjourned at Three Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.

SENATE HANSARD 10 APRIL 2024 VOL 33 NO 41

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024

The Senate met at Half–past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE

COLLECTION OF CODE OF CONDUCT AND ETHICS DOCUMENT

THE HON DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I have to inform the House that hard copies of the Code of Conduct and Ethics for Members of Parliament are now available in the Journals Office, Room No. 104 for collection by Hon. Members.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

      HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 6 on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 7 has been disposed of.

        HON. SEN. GOTORA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

        HON. SEN. ZVIDZAI: I rise on a matter of national interest. Thank you very much Mr. President for this opportunity to make a statement in line with Order No. 61 of the Standing Orders that allows a Senator who is not a Minister, to make a statement on a matter he or she considers to be of national interest.

        Mr. President, I wish to talk about the erosion of pensions because of hyperinflation over a lengthy period of time starting from 2006 to 2009. Zimbabwe suffered unprecedented hyperinflation as we all know. The GNU undertook a currency reform exercise which killed the local currency and got it replaced by the US dollar in 2009. Pension schemes and insurance companies took advantage of the removal of the 25 zeroes from our currency to revalue pensions and insurance policy values.

         According to the finding of the Justice G. Smith Enquiry into pensions, pensioners and policy holders suffered heinous prejudice. Accordingly, Government agreed to work on compensating civil service pensioners while NSSA and private insurance companies would follow suit for contributors and policyholders under their respective purviews. The process of compensation was targeted to commence in earnest in all these sectors by March 2024. Hyperinflation is rearing its ugly head in our economy and will likely further prejudice compensates, and compensation disbursements are expected if Government sticks to the promise that it made when we crafted the 2024 Budget.

       In his statement, Mr. President, I pray that the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion does the following:

1.       Make a statement on the progress registered so far regarding compensating pensioners and policyholders for losses and prejudice that were suffered due to dollarisation in 2009.
2.       To commit to pay the compensation in US dollars to vaccinate against repeat losses caused by the spiraling loss of value of our local currency against the US dollar.
3.       That the insurance companies be strictly monitored to ensure that they do not shortchange compensates. I so submit.

       THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: In addition to what you have raised, I would also urge you to follow that up with a motion which can be debated so that the relevant Minister will take note of it.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2023

       Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the Year 2023.

       Question again proposed.

       HON. SEN. D. M. NCUBE: I would like to add a few words on the report presented by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary affairs on the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission. When I went through the report, I saw one glaring problem which we need to address as legislators. Apparently, when the Constitution was put in place way back in 2013, as one of the five Independent Commissions, this was the only Commission which was given terminal life. It could only be in existence for a period of 10 years from the effective date, which was August 2013.

      The constitutional mandate of the NPRC has actually expired.  How are we going to cure that?  It is a question which should be foremost in our minds, if it needs extension because the work, they are doing is very important.  Also going through the report, you can see the commitment or the need for this Commission to be in place.  More-so, in 2023, which was an election year, that was the thrust to ensure that there was peace and tranquility during and after the election period.  They deployed in numbers way before the election.  The report then gave the 2023 elections a clean bill and practically said the elections were free, fair and transparent.  So, we must commend the work which was done by the Commission.  However, the main thrust why the Commission was put in place was to ensure that if there are any issues within the populace, Zimbabwean or any disputes of any kind, those could be resolved so that there is cohesion within all Zimbabweans and they all move together as one.  So, it is very important for people to realise that some of these events come and go, but we should remain united as a people.  

They divided their work into five thematic areas.  They received complaints, some complaints to do with political violence which they were able to interrogate and deal with.  There are also issues which are still residual within ourselves, those to do in some cases with Gukurahundi. We have seen the President being very clear on this.  If there are any animosities which are still lingering within our populace, let us sit down and dialogue so we can work this thing out.  At the end of the day, we should all be united to build our country.  

There are others who go out of their way to make sure that there is disunity within the population or within Zimbabweans and that should be discouraged.  They also looked at issues to do with Gender-Based Violence and violence created by those who take drugs.  In some cases, they went into detail on how they were able to resolve land disputes.  So, I strongly believe that the NPRC has a place within us right now, even though their Constitutional mandate has expired, it is actually important that we look at ways of extending that mandate so that they continue with the good work as evidenced by the report which was tabled before us.  Those are the few words I wanted to add on the report of the NPRC.

      HON. SEN SHIRI:  Thank you for affording me the opportunity to debate.  I just want to add my voice by looking at the key findings of the NPRC report for 2023.  The report includes a focus on programmes centered around complaints handling and investigations, conflict prevention and non-recurrence, healing, reconciliation and rehabilitation, research and knowledge management, victim support, gender and diversity issues.  

The NPRC’s work in 2023 was anchored on its overarching theme of conflict prevention to avert conflicts during and after elections.  Additionally, the NPRC’s 2023 programmes were informed by the country’s development blue-prints, our own NDS or National Development Strategy 1 and Vision 2030, emphasising the contribution of peace to the country’s development.  The report outlines the Commission’s efforts to support reconciliation, promote peace and address various aspects of conflict resolution and prevention.  Furthermore, the NPRC’s 2023 report has been presented in the National Assembly and we are also debating it here in the Senate as MPs indicating a significant step in the transparency and accountability of the Commission’s work.  

       I have some recommendations seeking to support the NPRC 2023 report.  The coordinates for transformative reconciliation report suggest that reconciliation actors should also focus on creating a platform for reconciliation facilitators or the middle level actors to develop an authentic approach to reconciliation.  The core group of actors should build a network of individuals with thorough understanding and experience in reconciliation and conflict resolution theories and practices like what is currently happening with our own chiefs for the Gukurahundi.  The network should also award and manage research grants primarily to expand the evidence on the past and to design effective reconciliation interventions.   

For organisations like persons with disabilities, there is also need to educate and recommend promoting constructive narratives about the past, current divisions and positive messages of peace and reconciliation in monitoring, evaluation and learning recommendations should also be implemented to ensure the effectiveness of reconciliation interventions.  I thank you Mr. President.

      HON. SEN. S. MOYO: Thank you very much President of Senate. I will take this opportunity to input my views on this important motion on the NPRC. I will start by saying, peace be unto you. Today, I stand before you to express our concern and question the report presented by the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission in Parliament. While we acknowledge the importance of addressing past injustices and promoting national healing, we believe it is crucial to critically evaluate the findings and methods of the NPRC.

Mr. President Sir, first and foremost, we must address the issues of equality. It is sad to note that the composition of the Commission lacks representation from different individuals, the Ndebele, Shona, Tonga, Kalanga and perspectives. The absence of culture size raises doubts about the independence and objectivity of the report. We need a Commission made of individuals who understand every Zimbabwean, no matter the language. How can you resolve issues when the majority of the whole Commission is made of one language group? The Government and Commission should stop disappointing the people of Zimbabwe because this Commission is important for peace. They should include individuals who represent different languages and cultures as voices in the Commission to ensure a balanced assessment of the truth.

Furthermore, we question the methods used by the NPRC in gathering evidence and testimonies. A full and strict process be followed to ensure accuracy and reliability, for example the nature and conflicts recorded by the Commission are not proper. The table of contents in the report claims that they got no complaints in Bulawayo as well as getting little reports of conflicts in Matabeleland South and Midlands, to name a few. I do not agree. For those who do not know, there are 17 244 GBV cases in the whole country. Bulawayo had the highest crime rate followed by Harare, Matabeleland South, Masvingo being the crime hotspots and different conflict types…

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon. Moyo. You may take your seat. When you are debating issues of this nature, you should select the language which you use. I want to refer particularly to a point you have raised that this Commission, when it was in Matabeleland South, they did not receive, I think you said complaints and something like that, and then you went on to say it is false. Hey! How do you know it is false? I am just cautioning you so that you select your language. Perhaps you could have said, ‘I do not agree with that’. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing but when you say it is false, hey, that is too strong a language my dear Hon. Senator. You may proceed.

HON. S. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President Sir. That is what I said. I withdraw and I will say that I am not agreeing for those who do not know that there were 17 244 GBV cases in the whole country. Mr. President, those being the crime hotspots and different conflict types, yet NPRC claims otherwise. However, there have been reports of witness intimidation and tampering, casting doubt on the integrity of the testimonies presented. For example, the Commission claims in the report that before the elections and after, there were the presence of the political players on the ground moving freely and campaigning for their candidates, distributing fliers and pasting posters without any hindrance, the public largely respected campaign materials for alternative political parties and there were a few complaints of the destruction of posters and other election materials; the electoral process flowed smoothly and quickly without any violent clashes or politically motivated disturbances. Even in areas where voting was delayed, voters still patiently and peacefully waited for the availability of voting materials without causing any disorder.

Mr. President, we all know that it is not what happened, should I remind you on what happened? Voter suppression and non-participation, when you were denied the right to vote, particularly in Harare and Bulawayo where ballot papers were not delivered from the midnight voting, midnight printing of ballot papers and midnight announcement of the midnight results. We also witnessed bizarre Presidential ballot papers layout meant to give an advantage to the regime. The absence of voters’ rolls at the polling stations in terms of the law. The health sector is in a sorry state. Our hospitals have become death traps. Most of our medical professionals are leaving the country.

We are ranked least happy in the world, highest inflation, highest road accidents, and highest poverty. We live in the negative. Then we have the NPRC disrespecting the people of Zimbabwe and putting out a false report that is not honest. Can anyone tell me this is not supposed to be the Truth National Peace Commission when they are busy reporting lies?

HON. SEN. NCUBE: On a point of order Mr. President. The Hon. Senator who is debating is saying the report by the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission was not honest. What is the basis?

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have already cautioned Hon. Sen. Moyo that he should select his language. I also want to say, Hon. Sen. Moyo, this language which we are using is not our mother language. I am not proud of speaking in English, myself because we should not judge each other by the way we speak a foreign language, but when you are speaking and debating in Parliament, you want people to hear you. I am not understanding 90% of what you are saying Sen. Moyo.  With all due respect, I would advise you to perhaps speak a bit more slowly, but even better perhaps to revert to your dear excellent mother language.

The Hansard people are not getting what you are saying to the extent that you can accuse them of distorting your speech, but they are not understanding. I, myself am not understanding 90% of what you are saying. I have already told you that you should select words which you use. When you accuse the whole Commission that it is not honest, oh dear me, somebody who was sworn in and you accuse them! What is the basis? So, please select your language carefully, knowing that you are making a statement which is supposed to be substantial and an issue which tomorrow your children can look upon and say, sekuru here made a very important point. You may proceed Sen. Moyo.

       HON. SEN. ZVIDZAI:  On a point of order Mr. President.  Thank you very much for allowing me to find clarity with respect to the decorum of debate in the House.  Mr. President, is there anything substantially wrong with an individual, with a Senator debating and expressing an opinion if what he sees in a report is at variance with what he knows on the ground?

      THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Zvidzai, when you make a substantial difference like the one he is saying, you should do so to somebody who can defend himself.  The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) is not here.  They cannot stand up and say what you are saying is not true, it is not correct.  You should select your words carefully.  Like I said, when you say that is false.  How do you expect the NPRC to react?  When you say it is not true, how do you expect the NPRC to react?  Anyway, I am in the Chair, I have made the ruling – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Please proceed and select your language properly knowing that the NPRC is not here.  

       HON. SEN. S. MOYO:  Thank you Mr. President.  Mr. President I think I quoted what I do not agree with this Commission.  Again, the Commission is not here, but a person stood up and said I am not saying the right thing.  These people are not Commissioners.  We have a problem in this House, let us respect each other.  This really is an issue to every citizen in Zimbabwe …

       THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Order, order! Please sit down.  Obviously, you did not understand what I have just said.  I am not understanding the argument you are making.  Muri kuti chii Senator.  

       +HON. SEN. S. MOYO:  Okay Mr. President, let me speak in Ndebele, maybe you can understand what I am trying to say.  I spoke about the Commission that focuses on the problem in this country, especially with regards to living amicably.  I also included that I read the Report and what the Report says is not what is transpiring on the ground.  I also said that this Report was written by the Commission and not by the Hon. Senators.  Another Hon. Senator stood up and claimed that what I was saying was not true.  As far as I am concerned, I am saying I wish this argument would come from a Commissioner, yet the person who is arguing is someone else.  According to our language, if you beat a witch, the owner will be revealed.  

         The Commission indicated that it does not have adequate resources to carry out its job.  It looks like they only focused on one place according to the Report.  It does not reflect the whole country.  What is happening is that we hereby request for an all-inclusive Commission to ensure that there is representation of all ethnic groups so that the work is sufficiently carried out.  I thank you Mr. President.

       HON. SEN. MUZENDA:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

       HON. SEN. GOTORA:  I second.

       Motion put and agreed to.  

      Debate to resume: Thursday, 11^th April, 2024.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION ON THE 2023 HARMONISED ELECTIONS

      Eighth Order read:   Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission on the 2023 Harmonised Elections:

Question again proposed.  

HON. SEN. MUZENDA:  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

       HON. SEN. GOTORA:  I second.

       Motion put and agreed to.  

      Debate to resume: Thursday, 11^th April, 2024.

MOTION

REHABILITATION OF CENTRES FOR STREET KIDS AND PROGRAMMES TO PROMOTE FAMILY INTEGRATION

        Ninth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the plight of children on the streets.  

        Question again proposed.

       *HON. SEN. CHINYANGA:  Thank you Mr. President.  I want to add my voice on the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara.  We want to thank the President of this country. Let me go straight to the debate. The children living on the streets, I think we are spoiling them.  We allow them to go roaming about, doing whatever they like because they feel justified because they have a problem.  They say they are desperate because their parents have separated and no one wants to live with them where they come from.  If you look carefully at it, some of them, where they come from, especially where I come from -Murewa, they do whatever with impunity because they believe it is because they are not known.  

It looks like there is street kid exchange arrangement whereby another group goes to another area whilst another one goes to some other places.  So, as far as I am concerned, these children must stay at their home areas.  We should look at those challenges as they are claiming that poverty, lack of shelter and hunger made them end up on the streets.

I am in agreement with what another Hon. Senator said yesterday.  The Social Welfare must look into their plight because some of them may not be liable to any offence due to their age.  Some of them are actually grown up and old enough.  I think they must be arrested and rounded up so that the country may mobilise resources to ensure they are kept in homes where they can stay forever, whoever is taken to a children’s home must never be allowed to leave.  

       There is a time when I used to travel to Marondera, when I passed by Msasa, I saw some children begging, so I tried to find out what was happening.  I went and parked my car by the roadside.  I asked them what was happening and they said their mother had gone to buy them food.  So, it means their parents are actually encouraging them.  They come to town with their children and use them for begging as a way of getting income.  That is very problematic because we must find a solution on what we should do with the children.

       Some of them live in allies and others sleep near flats where they are allowed to stay.  They end up grouping and sniffing glue and other harmful substances.  Some of the people hire them for cheap labour and let them go back onto the streets.  So, there are a lot of reasons why they go onto the streets.  The Social Welfare and non-governmental organisations should ensure that they are not supported while on the streets and all those who are giving them clothes or blankets must stop that because what it means is, as soon as they are given those blankets, they pass them on to their mothers who would be hiding someone and they continue putting on sacks, so the cycle continues.  They end up being a nuisance.  Sometimes they end up fighting for controlling parking areas and they also fight for sleeping space in card boxes.  They look like they are normal people because they are given money. Some of them get as much as US$20, so it means they are motivated to remain on the streets.  

I am in agreement with what another speaker said that if you assist children living on the streets, you must be arrested.  They must be rehabilitated and assisted by being taken to children’s homes so that they are rehabilitated to ensure that they move away from the mentality of accepting to live on the streets and in the bush.

        Let me give an example.  I saw one child and I said, you look like you were once a junior councillor, so what happened?  Why are you on the streets?  The child said, yes it happened.  Indeed, that child was a junior councillor but now that child is in the streets.  Those children are not on the streets because of suffering, but some of them is because of laziness.  When they are asked to work, or to fetch water, or are sent to carry out chores, they run away. So, for me, I think they must be taken out of the streets.  I thank the First Lady who has put some effort to take them away from the streets, rehabilitate them and spend time with them.  They run away from those homes.  Some of them run away from home and sometimes they run away from those children’s homes.  Why do they run away even if they are provided with everything?

I think these children must be removed from the streets by force. If they realise that children are being mopped out of the streets every week, they will not get the motivation to continue because we have put legislation in Parliament to ensure that they do not do that.  Some of them really do not have genuine problems but they create problems for themselves to justify their stay on the streets.

     ^HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President of Senate for giving me this opportunity to debate on this motion. The issue of orphans who stay in the streets most of the time is a very painful one.  It is a burden to us as Zimbabweans and we must make sure that these kids return to their homes because of the time the kids spend in the streets. They do not stay in their homes. I am troubled because of what they are eating and that they are not going to any school. I know that in each and every province down to district level, they say that it is the Government’s responsibility to make sure that these orphans are educated.

Last year, about 12 kids stopped me and asked me for food. I asked them where they were coming from. I said I wanted one amongst you so that I could help. Then one of them said that he was coming from Zaka. I said l also come from Zaka and let us go to the car. I could tell that the kid was lying. That kid ran away and took everything that was at the back of the car. These kids that we see in the streets most of the time and everywhere are very troublesome. Some of them are orphans for real who have lost both parents.

There are two or three ways which we can do as the august House. We have the chiefs here in Parliament. As representatives from different areas, I can see that these kids were born from different households and when they come to cities with their parents, they give birth to their children and the lineage continues to increase. I am pleading with the chiefs to find a better solution to resolve this issue so that we can take these children to better shelters.

In each and every district of Masvingo, there is a big house where there is Chambuta Care. I worked for a very long time during the refugee period when people were coming from Mozambique. The First Lady Amai Auxillia Mnangagwa renovated the place to be a national children’s home to cater for the children who stay in the streets. To tell you the truth, those who accepted to be admitted in the place, you will not agree that these kids are from the streets. Some companies built a house for the kids and most of the kids who agreed to stay at the place are now looking much better. There are a lot of projects which are being done there, from gardening to livestock production. These things are being spearheaded by the kids who came from the streets. You will not think that some of these projects are being run by the former street kids. Some kids ran away and went to different places like Masvingo and Harare, but those who chose to stay are leading a better life.

 The First Lady has managed to do a very good job. I had another homestead where about 28 kids were housed. I managed to get help and most of the kids have grown up under the shelter. I thank the Government for the assistance. The late former Vice President Muzenda took other kids and paid for their school fees. I want to thank everyone in this House including you Mr. President. We must help each other to make sure that these people who are living in the streets are able to get help and we also unite to make sure that these kids are genuine street kids who are not just running away from their families.

Let us work as a country because these kids are the future of this country.  Lastly, I want to thank Senator Tongogara for raising this pertinent motion and her seconder, Senator Rungani. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. ZINDI: I also rise to add my voice on the motion before this House, which pertains to kids who stay on the streets in towns, growth points and all other areas.  Firstly, I want to look at what causes these kids to stray in the streets. Those who write and do research say that kids run away from their homesteads to go into the streets mainly due to poverty. Some say that social, physical and emotional abuse by the parents or some say it can be sexual abuse which is never investigated and resolved very well. Those perpetrators of sexual abuse are not being held responsible so that they face the full wrath of the law. Due to that fact, the issue of abuse continues to happen until the kids decide to run away from the family. These are some of the things which cause the kids to run away from their families.

I want to come back on the issue that as black people, we have got our own way of life which is ubuntu. Our culture promotes the issue of extended families. Those who are able to get more resources must be able to help those who are not able to get enough resources to take care of themselves. That is how we grew up. We must also agree we cannot continue to live that way because things have changed due to the difficulties in people’s lives. People are now focusing on their own immediate families. It is helpful for us to go back looking at how we grew up, especially we as Hon Members who are debating this motion, if we unite and put our minds together and go back to our culture of extended families and how we used to take care of each other. I think it will be very helpful.  Let me give an example on the issue of abuse of children.  There are cases where parents divorced and the children are entrusted to mothers-in-law.  In our culture, if a woman dies, the young sister of the deceased will take her sister’s place as chigara mapfihwa in Shona and she will look after the children as hers since she is already the aunt to those children.  This was helpful in creating strong bonds within families and the children would not feel lost and end up being on the streets.  There was no possibility of the sister refusing to go and stay with the sister’s husband and children and it was culturally correct.  However, now there is the issue of culture dynamics as well as the issue of diseases such as HIV, which were not known then.   So, there was nothing to fear but because of the diseases, people are no longer interested in taking over their sisters’ husbands.  There is also the issue of human rights where people cannot be forced to marry someone, they are not in love with especially, a sister’s husband as dictated by culture.  What I am merely doing is reminiscing how we grew up and why we did not have children on the streets.  

      On the issue of culture, as we were growing up, you could never find kids on the streets.  This is actually a new norm.  Does it mean that these problems we are talking about today were not there?  I am speaking to these things so we can recall what used to happen and we can investigate and research on what is causing the influx of kids on the streets.  If there is need to revisit and mend our culture in view of removing the kids in the streets, let us do so.  Senator Chinyanga, alluded to the fact that government must construct homes and accommodate these kids so they can be motivated and educated culturally.  However, we should come up with solutions on the diseases.  When a woman is given to the sister’s husband, there must be a condition that a person must not be forced because of the diseases that are there and the rights of a person should be respected.  We must also take a step further that if they decide to engage in sexual activities, they should use protection, so they can give birth to healthy children.  Since culture is dynamic, we must also be dynamic in our approach in order to prevent the death of people and resultant loss of parents and children then straying onto the streets.

      I also want to support this motion that we should have a law that enforces the removal of these kids from the streets and house them in shelters.  Whilst we are doing this process, let us ensure we have a proper programme, well researched on what they will be doing in these homes.  They should not just be dumped and left to be idle.  Let us ensure they engage in agriculture, sports and other activities so that we create a homely environment.  If someone wants to eat, they should work for the food.  The kids have to be taught to work.  Currently, our kids do not want to work and we go and give them food on the streets where they stay.  Also, we need to find out what is needed by these kids to enable them to enjoy staying in the homes.  I think this will help.

The other thing is the way some high-profile people like ourselves here are abusing the children on the streets.  You will find some of them with a lot of money because they are being sexually abused and being paid for it.  You find a person like one of us or those with money picking up these kids, bathing them and use them to satisfy their sexual needs, especially those engaging in lesbianism and homosexuality.  It is not a good thing.  It is there in the newspapers yet no one has been arrested for sexually abusing these kids.  

In a country like Brazil, you read stories where they say there are too many street kids and they get to a point of shooting those kids to reduce the numbers.  

I do not wish us as a country to get to that point. Hence, I reached a point that we must research and come up with solutions so that we do not end up with these children running away from the homes which accommodate them. Let us come up with the solutions to make sure that these children stay in the homes. This will help us from a way of killing them because that is not a solution. Those who are killing, how would they feel if their children are going to face the same consequences because we do not know if tomorrow you might wake up not being there. Maybe you might be dead and your children may be used for the same thing. Hence, I do not see it as solution to end the street children.

I want to conclude by saying that the issue of drug and substance abuse is another issue causing many children to end up in the streets. They end up inviting other into the streets because they enjoy the money that they are being given by people. They say that the drugs are not expensive and end up carried away by taking those substances which is affecting their minds. At the end of the day, they end up in the streets. My problem is I see that it is another country which has got different a culture and dynamics which is being created. That is another country being created within a country of Zimbabwe and we do not know whether this newly created country is going to affect our livelihoods tomorrow. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.

*HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you, Mr. President for awarding this opportunity to add my voice on this pertinent motion raised by Sen Tongogara. I also want to thank different Hon. Members who have contributed to this debate. I agree with the previous speaker that we must investigate and try to understand what is happening before getting to solutions or judging the street children. I am going to repeat what has already been alluded to by the previous speakers that these children living in the streets are coming from families. What is causing them to run away from their families before we shift our role to Government to take care of our kids?

There are unions in form of marriages which take place. After marriage, the children migrate to the street and then we request Government to take care of these children. We must find out why there are children living in the streets. There is in need for research. If we are talking about street children, they are not children only, but there are street fathers and street mothers, including those living with disabilities. It is very important to research and investigate so that we know what caused the increase in numbers of people living in the streets.

All of us, we do have a challenge. Most of us do have houses where we are staying alone. Some of us do have huge mansions with upstairs and some of the bedrooms are not occupied, but we do have relatives living in the streets. When we were growing up, we used to receive visitors and share bedrooms without segregating. We used to take care of each other as extended families. I encourage chiefs to revive the issue of extended families because extended families are no longer in existence. That is the reason why we find children, fathers, mothers and those who are disabled in different forms in the streets.

It is not the responsibility of Government alone. We must first look upon ourselves and see what we are doing to educate our children and grandchildren. A family does not refer to you alone, but it includes those who are around us, the extended family. I am not going to ask how many amongst us are staying with extended families.  Most of the children are running away from their homes even if the father and mother are there. Sometimes parents will be fighting each other every day and the children end up running away and staying in the streets. This is another reason.

In some situations, one parent dies and they are left with one parent. The remaining parent may choose to remarry and the children end up being abused. They are no longer being taken care of properly by the remaining parent and the children stay in the streets. Right now, there is an issue of the diaspora, but most of them are leaving their kids behind without any parent to take care of. Parents tend to send luxurious things like phones, money and other things, but all these things do not   replace or fill in the void left by the parent.

This leads to peer pressure because their kids would end up staying at bridges abusing alcohol and taking drugs. This is caused by lack of parental guidance. Parents might commit different crimes, especially women. In some cases, they go to prison with their kids or in some cases, the kids remain behind without anyone to take care of them. These kids end up being abused by some people. As Zimbabweans and as blacks, we know that we must take care of each other. If I am saying father or mother, I will not be referring to my biological parents. Every woman is a mother. Right now, we are teaching our kids that my father’s sister is aunt, that way of addressing creates a gap.

We must teach our children that these aunties are our closest relatives. That is what we are supposed to teach our children and our grandchildren. Let us desist from using the term aunt when referring to our young sisters, we must leave that vocabulary. In the event that the biological mother is no longer there, a child will know that there is another mother who can attend to my problem, needs or help. This job needs your intervention as chiefs. Most of us in this House, we were educated not because of the money from our biological parents, but from other relatives who took it upon themselves to help us to be where we are today. What are we doing to teach our children? We must educate our kids and cousins such that if they have enough finances or resources, they must be in a position to make sure that they help each other and help other kids as well in order for us to be a better society.  

      Madam President, there is need for a proper research and have enough facts, not just deploying people to take these kids from the streets and deploy them in different institutions.  Do we have proper procedures or facilities to take care of these kids?  Right now, we are talking about the issue of drug and substance abuse and we do not have institutions which are able to take care of these kids.  When they are kept in these homes, how best are they going to be taken care of?  Sometimes they are going to teach each other to become lesbians or gays and spreading diseases.  Do we have the capacity, or we are just saying that as long as we have managed to take them away from the streets, we will be happy that the streets are clean?  There is an issue or urbanisation that people are migrating from the rural areas to the towns, but there are no jobs.  As Government, we must encourage that we create more jobs in rural areas because that is where most people reside.  There are more youths in rural areas, if I am not mistaken, over 70% of the population of Zimbabwe is in the rural areas.  Sometimes we are looking for a solution which touches the people in the towns only but we are ignoring people in the rural areas. Right now, there are people in the rural areas who are staying at centres like growth points and shops.  It does not help to just take these kids without proper procedure, it is another form of abuse.

Mr. Speaker Sir, if we look into our Constitution [Chapter 2: No. 19], it says that as Government, we must try by all means to make sure that the rights of children who are staying in the streets have access to health, education and jobs.  We have got the issue of vocational training centres.  This issue must be encouraged to make sure that in each and every district there is a vocational training centre for the kids to be taught their jobs, not for them to go and look for the jobs.  That is what we are lagging behind from colonial period that the kids are learning and have degrees so that they can go and look for jobs.  Children must be taught how to create jobs, employment and contribute to the GDP of the country.  

     Madam President, I have got an example of a girl child.  Right now, what is being done to them - I am pleading to this august House not to talk in this House only, but we must go to the streets.  Even if we take a few of them, sit down with them and understand their reasons for being in the streets.  Madam President, even those who are disabled who are in the streets, let us not make conclusions for them but let us try to sit down and hear their grievances.  We are not denied the access to go to Hatcliff, Hopley and other areas and see what is happening there and what is being done to the girl child.   There are men who wear expensive suits and drive cars - that is what is happening. I can testify on this issue; I have seen it happening.  Kids are being lined up with men who wear suits and have good cars, then they are selected and sometimes they are undressed.  These kids are taken and abused.  It does not have anything to do with unemployment, but it has something to do with the abuse of the girl child.  If you sit down with them and try to find out how they end up in the street, they will tell you that ‘my father’s wife or my father chased me’.  They are facing various problems and sometimes you find that a 13-year old is staying with a nine-year-old and renting a small room.

Madam President, their rent would be paid by that man who is abusing her.  Most of the time these kids are manipulated and given a few cents, then they can tell you that after one hour, they are paid 50 cents by the man, and if the man sleeps with them throughout the night, they are given a dollar.  These things are happening here in Harare during daylight.  Tell me how the other kid is surviving whilst she is watching what is being done to her sister? She will end up being chased out because the other sister will say ‘I am no longer taking proper care of my client who is giving me food and shelter’.  That kid ends up on the streets.  Let us sit down and come up with a solution and also let us come up with procedures of rehabilitation, not a solution of taking them into institutions.  

      Yes, we are talking about institutions right now but most of the institutions are not inhabitable.  Most of the children are being transferred from children’s homes to family units.  Even those who are old or differently abled.  I am saying differently abled because I am talking about each and every one of us.  We have got another form of disability which we do not have.  Some of us are disabled in the body, in the minds, but those we are able to see are the ones we are looking down upon.  Hence, we must help each other as families in our communities to take care of each other because that is the reason why we are able to grow up to our status right now.  

I am saying, let us go back and follow our culture.  Let us educate our kids and our families to take care of each other, not that we take them like they are superior to others.  When visitors come, let us receive them properly and take care of them.  As men and women, let us make sure that we stay in peace and harmony. Yes, the Government is there to help, not for us to bear children and expect Government to take care of us and to make sure that Social Welfare is taking care of our kids.  Let us not judge these kids without doing proper research, sitting down with them and know what is bothering them.  Let us all do research and visit these different areas and have best solutions on how we can help.  Right now, we are saying we must take these children to children’s homes, but as individuals; do we want our kids to be taken to children’s homes?  We want the Government to take all the burden, but we do not want to take part as parents.  Yes, Government must help, but we must go back to our culture. Government must make sure that these children go to schools under the project of BEAM and the healthcare.  These issues must be done properly.  We must protect these children.  It is also the duty of churches to take care of the children.  Some people are failing to have children and some go to the extent of eating cow-dung or other herbal medicines in order for them to conceive.

Let us be able to help each other and remove poverty in the country.  As Hon. Senators, let us come with proper solutions to make sure that street children are taken care of with proper dignity.  I can spend the whole day debating.  My point is, let us not point our fingers to the children, we are the ones who are perpetrators, we are the ones who have done wrong. Let us go back and solve these issues from a family point of view up to the top.  Children must be taken care of because they are very important.  I thank you.

     ⁺HON. SEN. R. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion on children living in the streets without anyone looking after them.  They are quite a number of Hon. Senators who have debated and I think there are a few that are left.  Madam President, it is disheartening to see children living in the streets. I do not think they are all coming out of families that are impoverished.  Most of them are coming from homes with mothers and fathers.  

      If ever there is an opportunity to have them rounded up, and have them incarcerated, we will see their parents coming through to look for them.  Madam President, Zimbabwe is a country that has a lot that we can engage in. There are famers that are partaking in different farming activities.  If these children can be rounded up and have farmers taking maybe five of them each, this might help.  If they continue to run away from these farms, then it means they will just be mischievous and most of them end up running after people, waiting by the streets lights to ask for money.  In rural areas, these challenges are very minimal.  I have not come across such children living in the streets. It is because of challenges that include death, but death is not only found in urban areas, it is there even in the rural areas.  What is making them choose that kind of life?  Right now, we are going to be having Trade Fair in Bulawayo.  We will be having many visitors coming from different places and they will be running after these visitors with plates asking for money.  It is an embarrassment to our country.  Therefore, Government should take measures to get rid of these street children living in the streets.

      Back then, the disabled were not taken seriously, but Jairos Jiri took it upon himself to round up those people living with disabilities to a place where he managed to house them and look after them, giving them the necessary training according to the level of their disability.  We have businessmen who are unable to walk all because of this person called Jairos Jiri.  Even though he was asking for help from other partners, he managed to continue to look after these people.  So Madam President, if we can get someone who can have mercy between us and round up these children living in the streets, volunteer to take them, for example in Marondera and Bulilima, if we can have someone rounding them up and make them realise that staying in the streets does not help.

      Therefore, I take this upon this august Senate to help in assisting these children because surely, if you are to look at these issues, you realise that certain parents are not facing challenges that can drive their children to the streets.  In most instances, very few children go to these streets because of poverty at homes, but for most of them, it is just out of mischief.  From these streets, these children teach each other drug abuse.

       Another issue Madam President, if these children are beaten up, I guess we will see very little of such children staying in the streets in huge numbers.  I do not understand what is happening to these children, is it because they have chosen this kind of life or they are coming from impoverished homes.   Madam President, with these few words, I would like to thank you, the Hon. Senator who brought in this motion and the few that have debated, they have said a lot.  I thank you.

An Hon. Senators having crossed between the Chair and the Hon. Senator debating.

      THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. A. DUBE): Order Hon. Senators, you cannot cross between the Chair and the Hon. Senator debating.  

     ⁺HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President for this opportunity to air my views on this motion on children living in the streets.  What I realised Madam President of Senate is that these children, for most of them, it is not because they are impoverished.  If you are to get to NI Hotel next to ZANU PF offices, you would realise that there are ladies seated there and their children are running to the street lights to ask for money from motorists.  

Other women are taking children living with disabilities, put them on wheelchairs to ask for money from motorists in full glare of the sun. Yes, children encounter challenges of having parents dying but most of us continue to survive in our homes despite our parents having passed on.

If you are talking of rounding up children so that they can be taken good care of, it is one effort that has been tried by our First Lady. These kids were taken to homes but they still ran away from those homes. What do they want? If you are to call one of these children to your place, they will insult you and leave you amazed at how they will be scolding you.  Police officers should be empowered to remove these children from the streets and be taken back to where they come from so that we check as to whether these children do not have relatives or not.  You just wonder what else children living in the streets want us to do.

In most cases, girls living in the streets go to mining areas and it has disturbed their lives quite a lot. We do not know how we can best keep these children because once they give birth to their kids, they do not know who the fathers are and they continue to be street kids. We hope that this august House, upon agreement, need to agree on how we can round up these kids so that they go where they came from and we visit those homes and make further investigations as to how these kids end up in the streets.

We have kids that we stay with because their parents have died. As mothers and fathers, we need to agree and see to it that we have these children being rounded up from the streets and take them to where they are coming from so that we get this challenge to an end. These parents with disabled children whom they are using to ask for money, we need to get this to an end. Our country needs to be respected. As owners of this country, we are ignoring some of the issues that make our country appear to be disorganised out there. With these few words, I thank you.

+HON. SEN. NYATHI: Thank you for this opportunity Madam President to add my voice to the motion before this House. Quite a lot has been said by the previous Senators. However, what I would want to touch on is the solution to get these children out of the streets. As an august House, we need to enact laws that will have these children being rounded up. We also need to enact laws that will ensure that once they are seen in streets or at growth points, action is taken upon them. Without doing this, all the children will end up doing the same.

This issue of children living in the streets started with a few children but because some of them end up desiring this kind of life, it makes it difficult for parents to control their children at home because each time laws are being enforced to them at their homes, they choose to go to the streets. If we do not work in ensuring that these children are removed from the streets, this is going to be problematic to this country because each time they ask for money and you tell them that you do not have, they scold you. How is our country going to be respected with such people that are disrespectful? Right now, we will be having visitors and they will be running around asking for money from these visitors and this becomes so disgraceful to us as a country. Therefore, we need to come up with a solution as to how we can have these children out of the streets.

In most cases during the night, if you hear of people that have encountered a challenge of snatch and grab, it is mainly these children. During the evening, some of them are being abused and all this end up bringing challenges of sexually transmitted infections. I thank you.

Hon Sen. Fanuel having stood up to debate and there was no translation in Tonga.

HON. SEN. PHULU: On a point of order Madam President, there is no translation and Hon. Members are missing out on the invaluable contributions being made on this motion.

       THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  There is no interpretation so no one understands, but you can continue with your debate.

+HON.SEN. FANUEL:  Alright, I am talking of the issue of children living in the streets, which is a motion raised by Hon. Sen Tongogara.  It is a difficult issue for all of us in Zimbabwe.  Children living on the streets continue to increase, especially in Bulawayo and Harare and it pains all of us.  Yesterday, I saw a five year old that was carrying their little one on their back and I wondered where the mother of this baby was.  These children start roaming the streets at a young age of five years, and they continue to live on the streets and end up having children themselves at an early age too. You wonder who impregnates them.  

During COVID-19, the President enacted a law and stationed police officers and soldiers to ensure that everyone had a mask on.  Therefore, it will help us if a similar law is put in place to ensure that as parents, as law enforcement agents and us as the august House, we insist on having these children rounded up and taken to farming areas.  

I will also talk of bars where these children end up patronising.  In my view, I think in these drinking bars, it should clearly be written that those below 18 years are not allowed.  So, we can also have this law changed to no under 16 years.  However, todays’ children have big bodies and if you were to ask how old they are, they will tell you they are 20 years old though they will be younger than that.  Each time they are reprimanded, they decide to abscond from their homes and stay on the streets. In other instances, once mothers are widowed, they remarry but their children might not be wanted in the new home.  Therefore, I would encourage this august House to look into the issue of driving these women to focus on income generating projects to assist their children from previous marriages.  Right now, most of the children do not have physical challenges.  The other one got married to a man whom they picked from the streets.  This girl was picked by a Dr. Sibanda in Borrowdale, but upon interrogation, it was figured out that this girl knew where she was coming from and those who stayed with her also knew where she was coming from, but she got married.  Right now, we have women that are taking their children – especially disabled children to the streets on a wheel chair whilst it is very hot and you wonder what the mother will be thinking of.  So, we need to look into the issues of driving these children out of the streets.

One other issue is that there is need for parents at home to teach the children. This is our duty as Members of the august House, kraal heads and chiefs to ensure that we have monthly meetings to do researches as to why we are not seeing certain children from our families so that we figure out where those children would have gone to. In most cases, because we do not do that, you realise that you see maybe one child from your community coming back after a month or two. They will be dirty showing that they were living in the streets.

Right now, there are projects that have been highlighted and the First Lady rounded up some of these children living in the streets but when they were airing their views on the television, most of them were indicating that they are now living a good life. If you would really realise that most of them are now living flashy lives – [Technical fault.]

+THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Withdraw umbuluza.

+HON. SEN. FANUEL: Thank you Madam President – [Technical fault.] – Thank you, Madam President. I might end up saying the wrong things because I am not good at Ndebele. I prefer debating in Tonga. Thank you.

HON. SEN. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam President. Thank you again to Hon. Sen. Tongogara for the motion. I went out for some time, so I might repeat what has been debated before. This debate is long, but there are a few issues that I will just pass in my debate because some of the issues that I had put aside for debate have already been spoken. I would want to encourage us as leaders that all of us here are parents. We are the mothers and fathers of the children who are on the streets. If we count some of us among here, as Africans, we know we come from extended families and if you throw a stone, you might hit one child who is related to you. There are issues that have been said about intermarriages and some of the marriages that we go through after some divorce or death of our spouses.

I will encourage that we refrain from marrying into a family whereby a spouse has children because we are failing to take care of someone else’s child, even among our own families, even our own grandchildren. Most of them are being abused by the grandparents who are of their own flesh and blood, what more of someone else’s child? Even if the mother is no longer alive, there is that mentality of – I do not know of a term that I can use which is not offensive. What happens is that, when we marry, we become jealous even to the children that we found with our husbands, which is not fair. The best thing is to refrain from marrying people who have their own children.

In the Bible, we have noticed that there was a marriage that involved Hannah and Peninah and there was mentality of jealous. Peninah forgot that the husband did not belong to her but to Hannah. What about us people of the flesh? As women or girl children, the problem of getting pregnant any minute and unplanned pregnancies, we tend to have problems taking care of the children, especially as a woman. There is not much problems with men or the boy child because the mother is the one always taking care of the child. You might find other people having difficulties keeping a child who has been born of another child because that child will give birth to the child and leave it with someone else and move on with their lives. Therefore, they are burdened with the child and will not be taken care of in a proper way. Those children will end up straying into the streets again.

I know that in our country, abortion is illegal and there are Christian denominations like the Roman Catholic that also do not support abortion. I think it would be much better for you not to have a child than to throw away the child and next thing you are moving around the City of Harare or Bulawayo, you see a child being abused by someone else. It really hurts to the core of your heart.

The best thing as leaders, we have to sit down and deliberate on a way of terminating some of these unwanted pregnancies or to refrain from getting pregnant at all by using preventive methods. Most of these pregnancies only affect women and not men. I do not know when men are moving around the streets seeing street children, does it even get into their minds that some of those children are theirs? As mothers, we know that every child is your child. You feel the burden of a mother. You feel the burden of child birth. Thank you, Madam President.  

HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. RUNGANI: I second Madam President.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Thursday, 11^th April, 2024.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. GOTORA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.

 

 

 

 

 

 

SENATE HANSARD 9 APRIL 2024 VOL 33 NO 40

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024

The Senate met at Half–past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI):  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 6 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND

RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2023 

Seventh Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the Year 2023.

Question again proposed.

       HON. SEN. MAVENYENGWA: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate for giving me the opportunity. I want to add my voice on the debate on the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, which motion was brought to this House by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. The Peace and Reconciliation Commission is a very important organisation in our country…

       Proceedings in the Senate were disrupted by malfunctioning of the recording system.

         HON. SEN. MAVENYENGWA: I was saying the Peace and Reconciliation Commission is an important organisation in our country as its mandate is to promote peace and solve disputes so that people can live peacefully. No organisation or country can develop without peace. The peace we are witnessing here in Zimbabwe enables our country to develop because there is no fighting and conflict. We can do our work peacefully. Conflict causes loss of life and also damage to property like what is happening in Gaza Palestine region where children, women, disabled and other vulnerable people are being killed indiscriminately because of conflict.

To avoid conflict, organisations like the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission should play an important role and make sure communities remain peaceful by solving any conflicts or disagreements. There are political, land, economic, ethnic and religious domestic conflicts among others which normally arise in many situations where people will have disagreements.  We need this organisation, the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC) to come in and assist in solving those conflicts.  In Zimbabwe, political conflicts emerge, especially during or after elections when one party fails to concede defeat.  It is important for political parties to be tolerant and accept the people’s will and avoid conflicts which end up in violence like what happened in 2018.  As a country, we need to avoid such situations by just accepting that one has won over you.

We have violence which erupts, especially where people are not able to accept that whenever there is a race, there must be a winner.  It is not always that when you compete you both win.  One will win while the other one will lose.  So, one has got to accept that.  This must be avoided by all means as life and property will be lost due to violence.  The NPRC noted that they received about 105 new complaints in 2023 alone and have a backlog of about 33 complaints, bringing the total complaints to 138.  They say 47% of these complaints are of a political nature, which were purported to have been committed during the elections as earlier alluded to.  This is from the report of the ZNRC.  The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission did a wonderful job and solved most of these conflicts.  The Commission also set up a conflict early warning and early warning response system to promote the strengthening of internal capacitation of people to solve their differences.  

I had a chance to observe the recently held 2024 elections in Russia.  I witnessed great tolerance by political parties and the citizens of Russia.  The process was so peaceful and no violence was recorded during my stay in Russia.  The presidential losers congratulated the winner President Putin and they shook hands, which is what we also want to happen in our country Zimbabwe.  This will avoid conflict amongst our people.  Our 2023 general elections were very peaceful, thanks to our visionary leader Cde Dr. E D Mnangagwa who preached peace at all his meetings.  Some parties like ZANU-PF heeded the President’s call to shun violence and campaigned peacefully and won resoundingly as people were happy with the leadership style which was being exhibited by its leader Cde E.D Mnangagwa and his followers. 

Drugs are also a cause for conflict in homes, work-places, public and private places. People do not work, but engage in fighting because of drugs.  Drugs also end up causing diseases such as Cancer.  Our youths do not also work if they take these drugs.  This means production will also be affected because of the drugs that the youths are taking.  So I suggest that stiffer penalties be imposed on those selling drugs, just like what is happening to those who steal cattle.  If one steals one beast, he is given a nine year jail term.  That should also apply to drugs.  If one is found selling drugs especially to the youths, the penalty should be very harsh so as to deter people from selling drugs.  Drugs also cause domestic violence.  Normally when one has taken drugs and goes home to find that the wife has not yet cooked anything, the husband will start beating her up.  So, drugs cause domestic violence and we do not want to continue having such conflicts in our country.  I urge families to solve their problems amicably and stop taking drugs because they are harmful and influence some people to engage in violent activities.     

The NPRC partnered with schools, Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Services, traditional leaders, the Task Force on Drugs and Substance Abuse among others, to curb the problem so that figures do not result in multiplication of avoidable conflicts.  It is one of the strategies which was used by the NPRC because these drugs are now also being taken in schools as well as in prisons.  So, they have to target those places and ensure that they reduce the use of drugs in schools and prisons.  Traditional leaders also play a pivotal role in fighting drugs.   They were engaged by the NPRC.  
       The Commission was given $11billion in the 2023 budget by Treasury which was not adequate to cover all the resources needed as some personnel left the Commission for greener pastures citing low remuneration.  As Parliament, we need to support the budgetary issues for the NPRC so that the Finance Ministry can increase what they give to the Commission to enable them to do their work properly so that there is no high staff turnover.  There is a lot of work which was done by the Commission during the 2023 period.  As Parliament, we need to support them so that they try to ensure that the country maintains the peace it has and we can continue to see development taking place in our country.  Peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us, said mdala wethu, the late liberation icon father Zimbabwe, Cde. Dr. Joshua Nkomo.  So, I think everyone in here should make sure there is peace in the country.  Do not incite your supporters to cause violence to ensure the country remains peaceful.  Thank you for the time you have given me Mr. President.

HON. SEN. TSHABANGU: Thank you Mr. President Sir. Mr. President, a very good afternoon. I appreciate the recognition and also want to add on to what the previous speaker said but will digress a little bit. National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, it has to be truth. There was an omission in the Constitution of truth but it is a debate for another day. My point, Mr. President, this country needs healing. This country needs nationhood building. There is no development without peace. There is no development we may see in our generation when our communities are still experiencing violence, not physical violence that the previous speaker has alluded to, but silent violence in communities.

There has not been a closure to those who were victims of the yester-year politics, victims of the politics of exclusion. They are still yearning for peace. Today, these communities in their spaces, commemorate and celebrate the existence of their families in whichever way they do it. They erect the tombstones as families, as societies but overnight, we have some agents who will really remove them through a sense and form of violence by bombs. There are still cracks of Gukurahundi in their graves. Their placards are being removed, not by a form of peace but a form of violence. Violence is still moving and it is still there in the region where I come from.

Mr. President, I rise to say, this Honourable House should make sure that the initiative that is being spearheaded by the Head of State, His Excellency, through the traditional chiefs, must be supported. It must be supported by every Zimbabwean. We cannot have a situation where some elements, agents or sections of people in this country come and ululate for His Excellency during the day yet during the night they go and undo what the President does for this country. We want to build, not a country but a nation and a nation cannot be built but a section of few citizens of this country. It can only be built by us all. There is no minority group. There is no bigger group. There are no Whites, Coloureds, Tongas, Ndebeles or Zezurus, we are all Zimbabweans and we abide by the National Flag. We abide by that symbol which is there, which should make us Zimbabweans.

I rise with a heavy heart, Mr. President, that you make sure to allow the people of Zimbabwe in their spheres, to grieve in their way. When they grieve in their way, they should be protected. Security forces should make sure that when this thing happens, when people of Zimbabwe congregate, meet and commemorate their loved ones who lost their lives fighting for this country, they should be protected in their way. It does not matter that the Government should really - as long as the programme is not run by the Government, then they should not be protected by the security agents.

They should make sure that these people are protected and protect those who have died. We cannot have grenades in the graves of the people who are dead Mr. President Sir, and we are talking about peace. There is no peace in the region of Matabeleland. People are still yearning for that peace. I rise and say, let us buttress Vision 2030. Let us buttress the vision that His Excellency, through the traditional chiefs, has; we want the closure of Gukurahundi in Matabeleland. I will be one of those who would stand and support that vision. I thank you.

*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on the issue of peace and reconciliation in the country. I believe that the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission…

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon. Wunganayi. We are debating the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation for 2023. You may proceed.

*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I was getting there. I wanted to thank the Minister, who is the mover of the motion of truth and reconciliation …

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Wunganayi, you keep going astray. It is not a motion; it is a report.

*HON. SEN. MUZODA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add my voice on the report which was presented in this House by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. The report speaks about peace and reconciliation in the country and other countries, like what they were doing when they sit down and discuss this issue. Firstly, Mr. President, I would want to begin from the issue of the liberation struggle. There was liberation struggle because we wanted to find a better way for peace and reconciliation and live in harmony and have equal treatment. There is no one who is supposed to be superior than the other. This forced us to go to war as Zimbabweans, even you the Hon. President of the Senate, you went to war. You fought tirelessly to make sure that there is peace in the country. The war was fought and people had to sit down and talk to find each other and moved on.  That is what we need in Zimbabwe so that we cannot have a person who mistreats other people or take them for granted or take them to a certain group so that they feel uncomfortable and this will end up causing a lot of problems.  

Mr. President, we have seen a lot of conflicts in different countries.  In 1994, there was war conflict between the Tutsis and the Hutus.  In South Africa, there was war and in DRC, there was war again, but all these countries today formed peace and reconciliation organisations which encourage peace and harmony and we emulate that because it brings peace.  Mr. President, although there are other organisations which are not in support of this, there is peace in those countries.  I am happy that the previous speaker said that peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us.  

       Mr. President, we need to educate each other on this report.  If you are speaking about the issue of peace and reconciliation, it is an issue which everyone needs to grasp well with truth, without lies or without fear.  We can only talk about peace and reconciliation if there was conflict before.  We have faced a lot of problems in the country and we think that these things must not be repeated again.  I want to touch on what the previous speaker has said when he spoke about the issue of Gukurahundi in Matebeleland.  The issue must be addressed so that it will not continuously come up.  That is the meaning of peace and reconciliation.  If we have come from conferences where we have learnt different things and come up with a report, let us come into this august House and execute what we would have discussed.  

        Mr. President, in 2008, there was an issue of politics, like what others are saying that when there is an election, there must be a winner and also there must be others who congratulate the winner. That did not happen because issues were raised later.  As time went on, people started saying this one is the one who won…..

      THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Order, I have been liberal and allowed people to stray a bit here and there, but I think it is now getting out of hand.  Clerk, do you have a copy of the report, the one we are discussing.  We are discussing the report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the Year 2023 presented in this House in terms of Section 253 and 323 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.  Listen carefully, I am not stifling debate on anything which you want.  You can go to the Journals Office, file for a motion which you want to present to this House, be it on Gukurahundi or anything and then we discuss it.  Now, if I allow Members to stray from the report and discuss particular incidences which happened in 1980, 2008, 1957, you can even go back to 1886 or 1893; we will be regressing in terms of the orders of this House.  I hope you have read this report Hon. Members.  That is what we are debating.  If you want to debate anything else, please go to Mr. Daniel’s Office, file a motion and we come and debate here.  It is getting out of hand.  Senator Wunganayi, if you want to debate on this motion you can continue, but if you have nothing else to say you may sit down.

      *HON. SEN. ZVIDZAI: Thank you very much Mr. President.  Thank you for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on the report on National Peace and Reconciliation.  The National Peace and Reconciliation is a very important Commission.  It was established in 2013 when we wrote the New Constitution.  Mr. President, the statistics given in the report that there is violence and conflict in this country, how they presented and who can address these issues of conflicts in the country.  Most of the conflicts amounting to 105 come from politics, 49 cases come from how we live in the country and how are we going to lead each other.  Some of the conflicts in the country are Gender-based Violence.  

       I am pleased Mr. President that on issues of Gender-Based Violence, all of us agree that from all walks of life, we must fight Gender-Based Violence so that there is peace and harmony in the communities.   That same thing must apply to the whole country, that is what our country needs.  If we say that there is something bad which is being done by someone, let us help that person so that he or she can be able to perceive things the way others perceive the issue.  We agree as all Hon. Members in this House that we must fight Gender-Based Violence so that our country can develop economically.  What is called a country is a summation of all the different households and that is what we call a population of a country.  

       We also agree that we must fight gender-based violence so that there is peace and harmony in households.  That same thing must apply to the whole country.  This is what our country Zimbabwe needs.  If we see that there is something bad that is being done by someone, let us help that person so that he or she can be able to perceive things the way others perceive it.  

We agree as Hon. Senators in this Senate to fight gender-based violence so that our country can move forward and we can develop economically.  We also agree that there is conflict between humans and wildlife.  All of us agree that wild animals are eating people’s crops and harming people.  We must find a better solution to solve this wild-life and human conflict.  There is one area where we do not agree with each other, that is, where others are trying to hide conflicts that are involved in politics.  As a country, we cannot move forward if we are not addressing this issue. If there is conflict in terms of politics, we must not look at who caused the conflict, but let us address the issue as it is.  Is there conflict or not?  We must not argue on something that is bad.  

       People must agree that there must be peace in the country.  We must condone violence during election time as what happened in 2008 elections whereby people’s hands were cut.  Liberation war collaborators like Cde. Tongogara, even the President himself fought for the liberation of this country and we must not force each other to comply with what we think is the best but as a country, we must work for the betterment of the country.

      If we analyse the report, we can see that 23 percent of the 49 cases are coming from Masvingo and the issues of addressing violence must be addressed extensively in Masvingo Province.  Levels of violence must go down like what is being done in Bulawayo and other provinces. People from Masvingo must desist from violence.  They must stop beating each other because that is what is written in this report.  

       Mr. President, I am not addressing people individually, I come from Masvingo but I am rebuking the people of Masvingo to desist from violence.  The politics of the province has something to do with the leaders of the area.  If the place is headed by a violent somebody, most people will be killed.  If an area is headed by someone who is peaceful, people stay peaceful.  Even the Bible says that if an area is headed by evil people, the area is going to experience violence.  

       The area of Masvingo is being headed by an evil person. People from Mashonaland East are the second…

       HON. SEN. MAVENYENGWA: On a point of order Mr. President of Senate.

       THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is your point of order?

       *HON. SEN. MAVENYENGWA: Mr. President, the Hon. Senator said that Masvingo is being headed by evil people.  We have many people who come from Masvingo but he is putting everybody in one basket.  I do not agree because there are many good people who come from Masvingo, the Hon. Senator must withdraw his statement.  We have Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira who has been elected to head Pan African Parliament and that shows that he is a good person; he comes from Masvingo.  May the Hon. Member withdraw his statement.

       THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: He is not out of context, he is debating on the report and he has quoted the statistics, so he is making that statement in the context of the fact that the highest number of cases were in a particular region.  He is not white-washing all the people who come from Masvingo, but those people who committed acts of violence.  

       *HON. SEN. ZVIDZAI: Thank you Hon. President of Senate. Mashonaland East has got a percentage of 17%, but I am also encouraging them that if you are electing or choosing leaders, you must choose people who are not violent so that the country is not headed by violent people. We must move forward as a country.  

Here I am talking about conflict which has to do with politics, that is why I have mentioned something about politics.  Bishops of churches who are involved in violence must desist from that.  I cannot mention the chiefs because they are not allowed to be involved in politics.  The other conflict is on land; that is what we fought for during the liberation struggle and that is where conflict is emanating from.  I am also encouraging the chiefs because they are the custodians of land in this country.  

       If they are looking at issues of land, they must make sure that there is fairness when presenting the issues and to make sure that everyone equally benefits.  This is another way of finding ways to reduce conflict in the country so that when the National Peace and Reconciliation writes their 2024 report, they will mention that conflict of land has been reduced.  That is what we are advocating for, that there must be peace and tranquility in the country.  Where there is no peace, there is no development, even at household level. If rains come and you begin to argue which crop to plant, the rain season will end whilst you are still arguing on which crop to plant.  Hence that is why we want peace in the country, even in our different provinces because devolution and development come when there is peace in the country.  I thank you Hon. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice.  I also want to thank the Commissioners of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission who did not hide anything but they included everything in the report.  It depends on how we see it, but they tried their level best by giving us some picture, and even the statistics to make sure that we understand where we stand as a country.  Their solo motive was to make sure that there is peace in the country, I thank you.

      THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 8 to 14 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the Order of the Day Number 15 has been disposed of.

HON. SEN. GOTORA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

PROGRAMMES TO CURB DRUG AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE BY THE YOUTHS

       Fifteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on drug and substance abuse by youths.

       Question again proposed.

        HON. SEN. CHAPFUDZA:  Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on the motion which was brought by Hon. Sen. Dube on drug and substance abuse by the youth.  I would also like to thank those who debated before me on this motion. The issue of drug and substance abuse is a big issue which is affecting not only the youth, but all of us as Zimbabweans. The youth are coming from families and whenever a family is being affected, the youth inside that family is affected. That will also lead to the village, community, society and the country at large. Zimbabwe is being affected.

We want strong youths who are so determined to build Zimbabwe, but if they are weakened by drug and substance abuse, it means we are having a weaker Zimbabwe. All sectors of Zimbabwe, be it health or defence, are built by the youths. If the youths are affected by the drugs and substance abuse, it means we will not have a strong defence. All sectors are affected if the youths are affected. It is a serious issue that we should discuss and look into how we can prevent drug and substance abuse by the youths.

      For our society to move forward, it depends on the youths. If the youths are weak, we usually have a weak country. It is not only starting from the youths, they are getting these drugs from adults. There are people who are in search of money and living through dirty means, bringing drugs in our country, thereby destroying our own youths. Drug and substance abuse is a real issue. If you go to jail, they will testify that a lot of the people there are jailed because of the issue of drugs and substance abuse.  Even if you go to the cemetery, many young people are dying because of this issue. It is a testimony that young people are dying more than adults because they are abusing drugs. In our hospitals and rehabilitation centres, you find the youths who are sick because of abusing drugs and substances.

       We are recording school dropouts and academic difficulties due to mental health. These are issues which are being caused by drug and substance abuse. It is up to us now that we stand up and fight against this issue. The transmission of HIV is sometimes caused by the injection of the substances into the body through syringes which are not sterilised. This means that the transmission of HIV among the youths is on a high rate.

      There is increase in theft and robberies and this is caused by these youths when they do drug and substance abuse to support this kind of life style which needs money. These youths are not working, so they will resort to crimes and robberies. We should work so that we stop drug and substance abuse in Zimbabwe. We should also look into the issue of accidents. Let us give an example, when a youth is driving a car under the influence of drugs and substances, this will cause unnecessary accidents.

      Some of the laws that we enact as a country have an effect on the future of our country. When we were growing up, our parents used to beat us. Right now, there is a law which prevents the beating of children. You find a child in grade four taking drugs and you cannot take that person to jail. What are you going to do? The teacher is also afraid of this kid. We are destroying our own country through some of the laws that we are putting into effect. Let us not adopt foreign cultures. We have got our own culture and we grew up knowing that if you spare a rod, you spoil the child. Nowadays it is no longer like that.  The children have their own rights in the Constitution.

      It is my advice that whenever we are making these laws, we should also check our culture whether it permits these kinds of laws. These youths, when they are growing up, they are now emulating or looking at foreign artists as their role models. These foreign artists might be into drugs. When you look forward to your role model, you just take whatever the role model is doing thinking that it is the right way. I resonate with the song that was sung by Jah Prayzah when he was talking about, kuchiva rumwe rudzi hurema. We should be proud of ourselves as Zimbabweans. We should stand our ground so that we can carry our culture to the next generation.

      If you look backwards, what we used to do and what we are now doing nowadays is completely different. We are diverting from our culture and norms. We should go back to the drawing board and try to influence laws that support our culture. As part of a solution, our borders are too porous and Government should look into it and support programmes to secure our borders. Most of these drugs are not manufactured in Zimbabwe. They are coming from outside and I believe Government has a role to play in combating drug and substance abuse so that they do not get into our country.

        It is a wise idea that there should be some rollout of test kits so that we test each and every one to see whether they are using drugs or not. I have seen that in sports.  You cannot be a football player if you are not tested of drugs and substance abuse. I think it will be fine for our country so that we also test kids everywhere in schools and companies and everywhere, to test people for drug and substance abuse.  Drug and substance abuse affect everyone.  It might be you or me.  All of us are affected.  It happens that you are driving at night, then you have a tyre puncture and you have to stop.  Then when you stop, these youths who are under the influence of drugs will come and attack you.  So, it is good that we prevent drug and substance abuse.  Let all the perpetrators who are selling drugs be jailed.  I would also want to support the point raised by Hon. Sen Mavenyengwa on stiffer penalties to those found selling drugs to our youths.                   These years we have a lot of suicide cases committed under the influence of drugs and substance abuse.  There are premature deaths among people aged 17 to 20 years.  Yesteryear, we had no records of such young people.  We knew that death only visited the elderly.  It was a scary thing to witness a funeral when we were growing up because it was not a frequent occurrence.  

      As part of a solution to this issue, I talked of enacting laws that resonate with our culture.  I thank you Mr. President.

     *HON. SEN CHIEF CHIKWAKA:  What I do not know is whether I have debated before on this debate.

      THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Please carry on, you did not debate on this motion.

      *HON. SEN CHIEF CHIKWAKA:  Thank you.  I just want to add a few words on the motion raised by Hon. Dube.  It is…

An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the Hon. Member debating.

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Order Hon. Senator.  Please go back.  You do not pass in front of an Hon. Member who is debating and the Chair.  I thought you were inducted. Use the other entrance.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA:  Thank you Hon. President.  This is an issue that is troubling us.  We all know that in our culture we say there is no garden without weeds, and what these trouble-makers forget is that they are causing trouble for our children.  Our children have taken a bad decision of publicising drugs.  Long back, people used to think drugs were only used by the poor people but now we know that even those in high profile families are also using drugs.  So, when we die, who do we leave our inheritance to?  If we were to be raised from the dead, we would be pained to see our children using drugs.  Children of today even challenge their parents who gave birth to them.  We see our children misbehaving and we wonder where it is coming from but then it is coming from us, the adults.  Just as alluded to by one of the Hon. Members who debated before me, we are enacting laws which tend to backfire, like laws that say children must not be beaten or rebuked.  As a country, where are we going?  

        Mr. President, we did a survey when we went abroad.  We asked the children where they were getting the drugs and the reason why they were taking drugs because we wanted to see how best we could address the issue.  There is an English saying that says, ‘it takes a thief to catch a thief’.  So, we had to talk to the children.  They mentioned that the elders from high profile families are the perpetrators who use children to distribute drugs.  If you analyse this issue, you can see that the drugs are being produced for a ready market.  Long back, the children in the rural areas became the target as they we not going to school due to lack of school fees.  So, they were introduced to drugs.  These same children will grow into being parents and you will see them fathering children everywhere and not being responsible for the children.  They will not marry as they will not have any jobs or the responsibility to settle down and care for their families.  If they are going to try to be responsible, they then get into the project of buying and selling drugs.  In English we then say we produced idiots because these children’s minds only think of drugs and substance abuse.  They cannot be employed because they do not have O’ levels.  At the end of the day, they just indulge in drugs which are very affordable to them.  Mutoriro can be bought for ZAR10, ZAR5 $1 or 50 cents.  When they take these drugs, all they do is sleep or they become violent.  Sometimes they kill their parents.  We do have a lot of incidences, especially in the areas where we come from.  I will give an example of a person who harmed his wife and child. That person took rat poison after a conflict on the issue of land. The father wanted to sell land and the child refused that it was their inheritance. Then the father closed the door and attacked his wife. The wife had two deep cuts and the child was harmed. The elder son managed to escape. If you trace back, you would find that the person had spent the whole day taking mutoriro. I do not know what our laws say because tumbwa and mutoriro are being sold in the beerhalls and bars. Even those who are selling them are also taking in the drugs. If you try to negotiate with them, they cannot listen to you because they would have already been intoxicated. Even if you try to rebuke your child, the law says you cannot rebuke or beat your child. What type of right is that when the Bible encourages parents to rebuke their children from following evil ways?

We are trying to mould our children to be inheritors of the country and of our future, but right now we are suffering trying to build our country for the sake of the future. However, those who are supposed to inherit the country in the future are not doing anything because they are taking in drugs. Right now, this country will end up being inherited by other people who are busy manufacturing drugs and selling locally. Mr. President, as chiefs we are worried and we are imploring the Government to work towards elimination of drug and substance abuse.

It is my wish Mr. President that the laws which we are making in this country must be beneficial to us as a country today and tomorrow and even for our inheritors. The issue of drug and substance abuse which was raised by Hon. Dube…

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: She is Hon. Senator.

HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. The issue of drug and substance abuse which was brought by Hon. Sen. Dube is a pertinent issue. We must look at the issue and make sure we address it and not to just work without any results. Let us be united and work as a country and make new laws that benefit our country so that our country is protected and our children are protected from drug and substance abuse. The perpetrators who are supplying these drugs to other people’s children must desist from that because those same issues are going to affect their children. Thank you Mr. President.

*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief Chikwaka.  The Hon. Member who wanted to go out, you may leave because you will not be able to leave when another Hon. Member is debating.

HON. SEN. S. NDEBELE: Thank you Mr. President Sir. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank the mover of this motion who raised concerns that we all know are a challenge, especially to our children. Thank you for such a good motion which helps us in moulding the future of our children. Most of the Members who spoke before me have raised important points. I will however, add my voice on what has not been hinted by the previous speakers.

The issue to do with drug abuse; you realise that most of the children who have access to the drugs and substance, we need to find out where it is coming from. Who is the source of these drugs that are being sold? We need to deal with the source that brings the drugs into the country and also the parent of the alleged child who is coming home late whilst in possession of drugs. Parents can attest to it that their children are into drugs. These are the other parents that we need to deal with. They need to come up in the open and seek assistance so that these children can get help.

Unfortunately, most of the times especially leaders, you will realise that as parents, you would have seen that your child is going astray and your neighbours will only see when the child is now addicted to the drugs. If only we can come up with a law that will then arrest even the parents who are staying with children who are so addicted to drugs and not taking steps towards that. Most of the times, when we try to investigate or when the law enforcement agents are trying to investigate, you realise that as parents, we stand and defend our children that they are not drug addicts.

Most of the times as parents, we protect our children whilst they are doing wrong things. There is need as Hon. Members, to arrest such acts by admitting when your child is going astray. When your child is now addicted into drugs and they commit murder, the first thing the parent does is to try and get funds so that the child who would have committed the crime escapes the country.

Sometimes it is sad Mr. President Sir, that as parents we can invest in the production of drugs and use escape clauses to say they are being used for traditional use. Even our old aged who are taking tobacco and most of them will be drugs, they would hide behind the finger and say it is usual tobacco when they are drugs. Also, what contributes to drug abuse is the money that we give to our children as pocket money, these monies are used to buy drugs and we need to be aware of that. My emphasis Mr. President Sir, would be that all those who are selling drugs should be arrested. Sometimes as Government or as leaders, we have women who go through gender-based violence.  What is it that we do to someone who is a victim of gender-based violence whilst the perpetrator has done that due to drug abuse?  What are we saying to our children who are exposed to parents who are into drugs?  Sometimes you see parents who are under influence of drugs and they stay with their children. What are we saying to children who are exposed to such? The example I want to give - I am not sure whether I will be off topic, for example we have a boychild in my area – that family is being headed by a mother. When the mother is under the influence of drugs, there are so many things that the boy does.  Sometimes that boy will go to his girlfriend’s place, and when the girlfriend is not there, he will actually ask to be intimate with the grandmother. Mr. President, because of fear, the grandmother will have to agree to be intimate with the boy.  It is so sad that after all that act, the young man will then ask the grandmother to pay him because he considers the act as a noble cause.  Unfortunately, the grandmother had to pay using chickens and that grandmother had to tell the leaders of the community.  Unfortunately, after the use of drugs, the boy had to admit and confessed to the leaders of the community about his actions.  The grandmother who was raped by this boy remains with emotional and psychological challenges.  I therefore plead with us as leaders or NGOs, to engage our traditional leaders and do an awareness campaign.  I believe that is where the problem is and if this can be done village by village and we involve our traditional leaders.  

Let me go back to the issue of parents who stand and fight for their children and deny that their children are drug addicts when it is known that indeed their children are drug addicts.  If there is a way Mr. President, I think this will assist us in a long way, working together with the law enforcers.  We need parents to be involved.  We need traditional leaders to be involved as well, especially those who are the source of the drugs.  I thank you Mr. President Sir.

         HON. SEN. TSHABANGU:  Thank you for giving me this opportunity to express my feelings, views, ideas on this very important subject.  We are talking about the future of this country.  Every one of us in this august House is a father, mother, grandmother and is a grandfather.  No one was born from a tree.  We have these family units, institutions that have made us who we are today.  If today a ten-year old or seven-year old can be affected by this animal which is drug, steroids, cocaine, where is our future?  If a ten-year old child today can walk into a supermarket, bar and is allowed, and he walks about and he buys that drug – Mr. President a ten-year old child!  This is the future; this is where our future lies.  

        Mr. President, we know who these people are.  The drug syndicate is not for a small person, it is not for a mere person walking in Nkayi, Tsholotsho and Dotito.  These are big persons, we know them, we know who they are but we cannot sit in this august House and allow these people to make money at the expense of the future of our country, at the expense of our children.  You may sit there, wherever you are today and hope that because your child is not affected, you are not bothered but you will not be there tomorrow.  This thing is growing Mr. President.  In developed countries like in Asia, when you are found in possession of a drug, that is a life sentence.  Look at how they have developed their countries, why can we not learn from these countries that have developed because they discovered that drugs would destroy economies.  Who is going to respect us today in this august House because drugs are addictive?  They are silent killers.  

        Mr. President, not only that but allow me to say drugs breach the fundamental rights and freedoms of our children.  The right to life is breached, the right to personal liberty is breached, the right to women dignity is breached, the right to health care is breached, all this is enshrined in this Constitution of Zimbabwe that was endorsed by His Excellency, that was endorsed by all of us today.   Should we therefore allow this Parliament to sit and see its tenure coming to an end without resolving this important issue.  Today, if you are a cattle rustler, you know that if the authorities of this land catch up with you; you know your sentence will be nine years and above, it is prescribed.  We are the legislative arm, why not create a law for these animal thieves, for this syndicate that if one is found with a drug, it is 20 years sentence in prison?  Can we not really mitigate? Yes, we have seen stock theft being reduced by that kind of legislation.  

There has been a solemn reduction in stock theft through the chiefs and communities because they know that if you are found, you will go for nine years, there is no question about it.  We are the legislative arm; can we not do that in order to mitigate these issues that I have raised?  

       Mr. President of Senate, we cannot isolate the issue of drug abuse from the economy.  There is a thin line, our youths are yawning in the streets.  I may be out of order, but if you can allow me to express myself and drive the point Mr. President.  I want to bring the issue of drug abuse in a way that as a nation, we may think of everything, but we need change of culture.  As a nation and as people, we need to change.  When I grew up, I only read about cocaine, I never witnessed it and saw it. I never saw it and I do not think I will be able to see it in my life time, but my son knows what cocaine is.  Yesteryear, Mr. President of Senate, when we were walking on the streets, you would see a hearse coming.  When I was in my teenage when you saw a hearse, there are two things you would do. It is either you would run away or you would stand still.  This is what we were told, you would stand still until the hearse passes.  

        That was the culture we were taught.  This cannot be given to the traditional chiefs; it cannot be their responsibility.  It is our responsibility because a traditional chief has got his own family.  I have got my own family so it is the culture or the mindset that we need to change for us to address some of these issues that we are experiencing today.  

       Mr. President of Senate, it is a very contentious debate. There are some of us here who are smokers who believe that smoking is part of their wellbeing.  There are some of us here who speak through to their ancestors through fodya and it works out for them and that is a drug which is different from that which I am talking about today.  This country represents the past, this Parliament represents today; this Parliament represents the present and future. So, it is our responsibility as we represent the present and the future to make sure that drugs are out of our streets to make sure that this country cannot live as long as we have illegal drugs.  This country will never prosper as long as drugs are available in the streets.

        We need a political will, His Excellency the President has the power, he has the mandate which he was given in the past last elections to carry this nation forward.  He was given the mandate by the people of this country to lead this country.  He has that mandate to make sure that drugs are removed from our streets.  That the chains of drugs are broken for him to advance his Vision 2030, he cannot see Vision 2030 as long as drugs are still there in our streets.  

       There is no question of legitimacy as I stand here, elections are gone, let us concentrate on bread and butter issues and these are the fundamental issues that I am talking about.  I thank you very much.

      ⁺HON. SEN. DUBE:  Thank you Mr. President of Senate for giving me this opportunity to thank the Hon. Senate for supporting my motion on drugs and substance abuse.  I am grateful for there is no parent even as Hon. Senators that encounter challenges at home because of drug and substance abuse.  What I am grateful for Hon. President of Senate, is the support that this Hon. Senate gave to this motion where as parents, we were indicating that our children have become wild because of drug and substance abuse.  As such, they no longer respect parents.  We all have a duty as parents because our country is going into doldrums because these children are the future of this country.  

        Presidents are going to come from these youngsters and Hon. Members will come from these youngsters. Therefore, I am grateful for the support you gave to this motion. Government should ensure that we know that, His Excellency our President, Dr. E. Mnangagwa has tried to put in place a Commission that will look into drug and substance abuse.  My plea to this Commission is that they need to increase rehabilitation centres. In my previous debate in this House, I indicated that centres that used to cater for those who were affected by COVID-19 need to be used as rehabilitation centres.

         We continue to pray to God that every other parent needs to look into what they are doing, especially to those cartels that are bringing these drugs into the country.

In this motion, I was looking into the responsible Ministry coming through to hear contributions from Hon. Members. Despite all this Mr. President, I need to indicate that may this motion be adopted because Senators really supported this motion. Even today, we had other Senators that felt that they really needed to continue airing out their views regarding this motion.

We do not need to look much to Government alone because Government is me and you. We need to work hard and ensure that our children behave and respect wherever they are. They need to engage in sports and other developmental activities so that they do not partake in drug and substance abuse. It is not our duty for us to come here and say Government should be doing this and that, we also need to engage in ensuring that drug and substance abuse gets to an end. I move that the motion be adopted

Motion that;

        APPALLED by the unabated drug and substance abuse by youths nationwide;

GRAVELY CONCERNED that the situation is spiralling out of control as the youths spend most of their time idle and consequently end up taking drugs as a pastime;

WORRIED that such substance and drug abuse has extremely devastating and far reaching consequences on our youths and the future generations;

     NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Government to;

        a) Come up with programmes to curb drug and substance abuse by youths through self-help projects that ensure youths are fully occupied most of their time thereby keeping them away from drugs. b) Establish rehabilitation centres nationwide to assist youths who are addicted to drugs to the extent of treating substance and drug abuse as an integral part of their lives;

        c) Legislate for much stiffer penalties than before on individuals who are the sources of supply for those substances and drugs which give rise to incidents of this unwanted scourge of drugs in the country leading to this conundrum.

      d) Send to jail all repeat offenders without any option of fines at all and

      e) Take all necessary measures to ensure that law enforcement agents bring to an abrupt halt, incidents of drug and substance abuse as a matter of urgency, put and agreed to.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

        THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 8 on today’s Order Paper.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION    ON THE 2023 HARMONISED ELECTIONS

       Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 2023 harmonised elections.

Question again proposed.

       HON. SEN. MOHADI:  Thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice in this august House on the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission Report of 2023. It is without doubt that this report provides a comprehensive overview of the electoral process in our country, highlighting both achievements and challenges encountered during the electoral cycle.

The Constitution of Zimbabwe on Section 67, enshrines the principles of democracy, including the right to free and fair elections. It is our duty as representatives of the people to ensure that the electoral process upholds these principles and is conducted in a transparent and inclusive manner. Furthermore, the NDS1 outlines Government’s vision for the country including goals related to governance and democracy. The ZEC Report should be considered within the context of these developmental objectives and any recommendations should align with the broader goals of NDS1.

          Of particular importance are the recommendations in the ZEC Report which offer concrete steps to improve the electoral process. These recommendations must not be overlooked as they have the potential to enhance the integrity and credibility of our elections. Of particular concern is the issue of voter registration which has been identified as a significant challenge in the report. The low voter registration numbers especially among the youth and marginalised communities, raise questions about the inclusivity and representativeness of our electoral system. It is imperative that we address these issues to ensure that every eligible citizen has the opportunity to participate in the democratic process.

Furthermore, the report contains a number of recommendations aimed at improving the electoral process in Zimbabwe.  These recommendations range from enhancing voter education and awareness campaigns to improving the accessibility of polling stations for persons with disabilities.  It is crucial that we carefully consider these recommendations and take concrete steps to implement them in order to strengthen our electoral system and uphold the democratic principles upon which our nation is founded.

The recommendations from the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) Report of 2023 offer several advantages, including:

• Enhanced credibility; implementing the recommendations can enhance the credibility of the electoral process, leading to greater public trust in the outcomes of elections.
• Increased inclusivity; the recommendations aim to increase inclusivity in the electoral process particularly among marginalised groups.  This can lead to a more representative government that reflects the diversity of the Zimbabwean population.
• Improved transparency; implementing the recommendations can improve the transparency of the electoral process, making it easier for stakeholders to understand and scrutinize each step of the process.
• Stronger democratic Institutions; by addressing key issues identified in the report, such as voter registration challenges and electoral malpractices, the recommendations can contribute to the strengthening of democratic institutions in Zimbabwe.
• International recognition; implementing the recommendations can enhance Zimbabwe’s reputation internationally, demonstrating a commitment to democratic principles and good governance.
• Conflict prevention; a fair and transparent electoral process, facilitated by the recommendations can help prevent electoral disputes and conflicts, contributing to overall peace and stability in the country.
• Citizen empowerment; by improving voter education and awareness, the recommendations can empower citizens to participate more actively in the democratic process, leading to a more engaged and informed electorate.
• Modernisation of electoral processes: Some recommendations may involve the adoption of modern technology and practices in the electoral process, leading to more efficient and effective elections.

In summation, let us work together to ensure that our electoral process is fair, transparent and in line with the aspirations of the Zimbabwean people.  Overally, implementing the recommendations from the ZEC report of 2023 can bring about significant positive changes to the electoral process in Zimbabwe leading to a more credible, inclusive and transparent democracy.  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI):  I move that the debate do now adjourn.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024.

MOTION

REHABILITATION OF CENTRES FOR STREET KIDS

AND PROGRAMMES TO PROMOTE FAMILY

INTEGRATION

 HON. SEN. TONGOGARA:  I move that this House;

 RECOGNISING Government's commitment to vision 2030 of 'leaving no one and no place behind';

 ACKNOWLEDGING Government's endeavours and initiatives to provide children’s shelter for street children;

CONCERNED about the increasing number of children opting to live in the streets;

DISTURBED that these children are exposed to extreme health hazards, crime and abuse;

NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon; a) The Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion to avail more resources to the Department of Social Welfare to enable rehabilitation centres that will accommodate children living in the streets in recruitment of more social workers; b) The Ministry of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Development to invest in programs that improve the livelihood vulnerable families and reduce poverty at the household level; and c) The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to promote family integration in all its programmes.

HON. SEN. RUNGANI:  I second.

HON. SEN. TONGOGARA:  Mr. President, I stand before you today to speak about the seemingly invisible children of Zimbabwe – the street kids.  While there are no recent and accurate statistics on the number of children on the streets, it is glaring evidence that their numbers are increasing at an exponential rate, especially in the streets of Harare Central Business District.  Extreme poverty, parental child abuse, remarriages and maltreatment tend to drive children out of their homes to seek solace in the streets.  However, immediate causes range from abuse (sexual or physical), death, abandonment by guardian or parent including family breakdown.  Researchers found out that 90% of children end up on the streets due to abuse from a step-parent.  Some step-mothers refuse to nurture the children of their husbands’ former marriage, thereby depriving them not only of parental love, but of basic necessities such as food, clothing, education etc.  Also, when a woman decides to remarry, usually the children from the previous marriage suffer as they are not easily accepted into the new setup.  So in order to survive, these street children often beg and scavenge.  Many die due to disease and accidents associated with poor sanitary conditions and moldy food.  To survive, a child needs to join a gang.  The gangs however, have established “bases” where they sleep and hang out.  Many gangs hide out behind supermarkets in the alleyways where the rubbish bins are easily accessible and where food is thrown out.  They wait for the moment each day when rotten food or food which has outlived its shelf life is thrown out and then they pick through it, putting anything edible into dirty cardboard boxes for them to share afterwards. Food is a priority, but drugs are often even higher up the priority list.  Studies have revealed that street children have now moved from abusing glue as a substance to the use of emerging hard-core substances such as crystal meth known locally as mutoriro, broncleer, musombodia, codeine, high alcohol liquors such as blue diamond and cane-spirit.  Drug dealers and syndicate leaders are now employing street children to sell drugs and substances, thereby increasing the vulnerability of street children to abusing substances.  

According to a World Health Organisation and United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime publication, illicit drug use among adolescents is associated with mental illness, violence and unsafe sexual behaviour as well as increased risks of STIs including HIV/AIDS. Sexually transmitted diseases are rampant amongst those in the streets.  Usually, there are a handful of girls in each gang and they are passed around between the boys.  Many become pregnant whilst they are still minors.  There is a lot of abuse where older boys are forcing younger boys into sex.  The shame and embarrassment mean that it is often only when diseases are at an advanced stage that they have the courage to ask for help.

I was deeply hurt when I read an article in ‘The Herald’ about a serial street kids’ killer who had been in the streets of Harare killing and eating the remains of their victims.  These are the degrees of violence they face in their daily lives. Section 81 of the Constitution recognises the rights of children including their rights to access healthcare, education, nutrition, and shelter.  They also have the right to be protected from economic and sexual exploitation.  The Presidential mantra echoes the same sentiments of leaving no one and no place behind which is also embodied in Vision 2030.  On the contrary, their daily lives are fraught with security, social, economic and health challenges.  They are exposed to violence, exploitation, trafficking, poverty, neglect, and abuse.

We can borrow a leaf from Rwanda which was affected by the 1994 Genocide, which left 85 000 child-headed households, 34% woman-headed households, including 21% headed by widows. Delinquency, hunger and extreme poverty was prevalent among the young children for whom the street had replaced the family.  Almost all those street children were born in troubled families (divorces, repudiation, death of one or both parents, abandonment of the father, absence of the legitimate father, polygamy, et cetera).  The development of Rwanda National Policy for Family Promotion was meant to set up appropriate legislation and institutions for the protection of the family, especially the child and the mother to ensure that the family flourishes.

Rwanda lays such great emphasis on the family because it is considered as an essential element for safeguarding social order, maintaining social cohesion and for reconciling an individual with the society.  It is within the family that a child is conceived, born, educated and given to the community for the good of the society.  It is also within the family that the first interpersonal relationships are tied and exchanged, comparison and identification of opportunities are obtained.  It is therefore pertinent to develop policies designed to strengthen and safeguard the family as an institution, and enhance the quality of family relationships.

Allow me to recognise the sterling work being done by Her Excellency, the First Lady, Amai Dr. Auxillia Mnangagwa, in fighting the street kids’ pandemic through her philanthropic works carried out by the Angel of Hope Foundation which she founded. In addition, the Government has been implementing various social protection programmes like BEAM and Food Deficit Mitigation programme aimed at assisting vulnerable families and potentially prevent children from ending up on the streets.

The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare also runs rehabilitation centres for street children, offering shelter, food, education and skills training.  However, due to capacity limitations and resource constraints, the centres fail to absorb the growing numbers of the children on the streets. Also, in some instances, these children trickle back to the streets, their usual source of livelihood, because the homes lack a family-oriented support structure.  Being reunited with their families should always be the first priority and sometimes it just needs a social worker to accompany them back to their rural homes and sit down with the relatives.  Sometimes the reason for running away from home is delinquency.  Having a social worker to help them approach those they have wronged and ask for forgiveness often opens the way for a new start. However, where there has been abuse at home, reunification can be a lot more complicated and dangerous for the child.  Sadly, some families are too disintegrated or abusive to be a safe option, hence the need for rehabilitation centres.  Where poverty has been the cause of a child coming to the street, there is need to look at how to support the family so that the same poverty trap does not just repeat itself.

Mr. President in this regard, this House now calls upon

      The Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion, to avail more resources to the Department of Social Welfare to enable them to expand their rehabilitation centres for street children and employing  more social workers targeted, especially for street kids and their various social programs to limit the number of children flowing back into the streets.

       The Government, through the Ministry of Women Affairs Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development to invest in programmes that tackle poverty at the household level, targeting women and vulnerable families.

       The Ministry of Public Service should integrate family promotion in all its programmes targeting parents and communities, be they developmental or humanitarian.  I thank you Mr. President.

       *HON. SEN. RUNGANI:  Thank you Mr. President.  I rise to second the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara about children living in the streets.   They are increasing in numbers in urban areas as well as growth points and in rural areas where we do not expect to find them, but now you find them there.  As a country, we realise that young children shift from their rural areas and come into urban areas where there is no accommodation, without clothes and blankets.  We do not even know what they eat or whether they bath or not.  It is painful, but if you look closely, you realise that even for some children, it is out of mischief but most of the causes have to do with the surrounding environment. Sometimes parents separate, sometimes they die or the father marries another woman but they fail to get along although initially they may persevere, but in the end they run away to stay in unpalatable places.  

Mr. President, as mothers, it pains our hearts to see children living in such areas.  This also leads to drug and substance abuse because of the environment they have to live in.  They are even stealing, sometimes they snatch from people who are just walking on the streets be it food, they snatch and run away.  I think as a country, we realised that sometime ago there were rounded up and taken for rehabilitation, but because they are so used to the environment they stay in after being rehabilitated and sent back home, sometimes we fail to take care of them.

Mr. President, on streets kids, we spoil them by giving them money.  I once travelled to another country where it was stated that if we see you giving money to any person or beggar on the street, you will be arrested.  I think we should adopt such laws so that we safeguard and protect them.  Those who are into social welfare who take in such children, but do not have proper facilities need to be empowered so that they go to school and rehabilitated so that they forget about begging and living on the streets and all the habits they have acquired.  

Mr. President, it does not end there, sometimes they end up behaving like parents and they beget children on the streets.  It is a very sad scenario when we talk about children living on the streets.  They abuse drugs and substances; sometimes we have seen them using glues.  I heard one speaker saying they become numb.  It is because of the use of these glues.  Sometimes our children learn it, be it in school and how the children on the streets behave and what they use.  Our children also end up copying that.  Our ages never really saw this phenomenon of children living on the streets.  Even if our parents may have separated, people would persevere and keep on staying at their homes.  

Mr. President, in the past, children were so persevering, but these days children rush into the streets.  Sometimes it is not because they do not have anywhere to live or they do not have homes.  It is because they adopt new habits or cultures, but if we adopt proper culture and we give them proper environment in a family setup, they will stay with the family and stay there.  I expect that as Government and Social Welfare we should look into the issue of children living on the streets.  We need to construct infrastructure and take them away from streets to ensure that they stay on better places.  

Mr. President, it is a very sad scenario that we live in good houses and we eat good food, yet children on the streets will be starving and living under such harsh conditions.  It shows that as a country, we are not considerate to the plight of such children.  We may think that it is only happening in Harare, but it is also happening even in growth points, they leave their rural homes.  Sometimes they shift from one district or province to another, especially where they believe they will not meet their relatives easily.  I think we should debate deeply about this phenomenon.  We need to take them away from the streets and put in place facilities where they should stay.  We do not only see street kids on the streets, sometimes people that live in Epworth come to behave like street children living in the streets in town.  So, I hereby request the Hon. Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to come up with a plan and ensure that children living on the streets move away from such living environments and we take good care of them.  Some of the children live with their parents but as mothers, it means we are so cruel, sometimes we live with step fathers who chase away a child after marrying a woman with their own children and this makes the child to go into the streets.

Power outage.

THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Sorry for the interruption, Hon. Senator do you still want to continue?

*HON. SEN. RUNGANI: Hon. President of Senate, yes, let me just wind up my debate.   As a country, we need to unite and map a way forward to ensure that we resolve this problem.  Let us construct homes so that we limit or curb the influx of people or children living in the streets.  With these few words, I thank you Hon. President of Senate.

HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Mr. President of Senate, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. SEN. RUNGANI: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024.

On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes to Five o’clock. p.m.

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 9 APRIL 2024 VOL 50 NO 43

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

      HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I indicated that I wanted to raise a point of privilege.

       THE HON. SPEAKER: Please proceed.

       HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege after some perennial challenges that are facing Members of Parliament each time they come to the House. There is a challenge in terms of accommodation. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- Members get very desperate to a point where some sleep in cars and others are disturbed by the approach of some of the hotels. When Hon. Members go to hotels, they are told in an unfriendly way that we are not taking Members of Parliament, and they say they want to be allowed to deal with their customers, which is very disturbing. The honour and the respect that Hon. Members of Parliament must be accorded, they are not getting any.

       My issue is, we are sitting this week and we know if we are going to sit next week, those responsible in Parliament Administration, why do they not engage service providers? I am raising it here because I have engaged Parliament Administration not once but many times, but we are assured and it is only this week that we are going to be sitting and many of our Members were desperate.

Some got accommodation around 3.00 a.m. If the staff have challenges, why do they not inform the Hon. Speaker early enough that we are supposed to sit next week, but hotels are not accepting our people because of non-payment? We know that there could be challenges in terms of funding the stay, but they are not the source of money. If they are told that the money is not there, why do they not tell the Speaker that we cannot sit because next week we do not have enough resources than to have people so desperate?  

       So, my request is that, through your office, we convene a meeting. I do not know whether this is the correct thing to do, but where you give us how we have to deal with this thing because it is perennial. Every week Hon. Members are faced with this challenge of accommodation. It may not be Parliament Administration’s problem, it may be because of funding from Ministry of Finance, but they should know this thing upfront.

Some of the hotels end up sending Hon. Members away like at Pandhari. It is a dilapidated hotel and it is like people left that hotel 10 years ago. Hon. Members of Parliament go there because the hotel is flexible and nobody is using that hotel at all. So, I am requesting you Mr. Speaker Sir, that a permanent solution is found to protect the dignity of Members of Parliament. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

       THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! If I understand your English properly, you say perennial, I have been perennially in this office and you are raising it here, in this House.  The two Chairpersons - the Chief Whips, that is the Government Chief Whip and the Opposition, are both Chairpersons of the welfare of the Hon. Members of Parliament. What has stopped you from engaging me?

       Hon. Member, Government Chief Whip, you have sent me WhatsApp messages even when I am in Honolulu seeking my guidance. I have given that guidance accordingly and accordingly, you responded gratefully. I am here, unless you have temporal lapses that I am the head of this Parliament. Last time when there was an issue, I recall that the Government Chief Whip approached me and the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion was not around. I approached the Head of State and Government, His Excellency Dr. Mnangagwa. He immediately called the Permanent Secretary Mr. Guvamatanga and asked, is there no budget for Parliament?  He said yes and he asked, so why are you not paying hotels?  Your Excellency, it will be done immediately because the situation of that particular week had become desperate and I had been informed.  I do not want to hear the same story again and I am saying, my office, including my WhatsApp, is open… - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] – Now, without nailing you Government Chief Whip, last night you sent me a message concerning the interviews that we conducted last Thursday, gave me an opinion and I replied immediately.  You acknowledged my reply, but there was no mention about this issue… - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections.] – If there are any issues, let us face them together under my leadership.

       Now, may I know the update? Are Hon. Members now booked in hotels?  - [HON. MEMBERS: No! Fuel!] – Do not mix up issues.  

        HON. TOGAREPI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker, as an update, I want to acknowledge that I should have told you. When I spoke to you last night, the situation had improved a bit, but there are still some Hon. Members who have not been housed properly.  I really take your advice and will definitely talk wherever there is need. I have always done so, but this was overwhelming, very much overwhelming because Rainbow Hotel, for some reason, was not taking up, Crown Plaza told us they would take 20 and some hotels even refused, but I take your advice Mr. Speaker. I will definitely advise you in future. - [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] -

      THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, let us coordinate better.  I hear some whispering voices that are a bit loud on my left and on my right concerning coupons… - [HON. MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – Now, may I again be appraised Hon. Togarepi?

       HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker, like I said earlier, it is still the same that either the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion is supposed to fund the fuel coupon service providers.  They tell us that the fuel coupons were not paid for and the service provider was not ready to release the coupons for the period that Hon. Members are raising…

      THE HON. SPEAKER: How long is that? – [HON. MEMBERS: Three weeks!] –

      HON. TOGAREPI: It is two weeks - [HON. MEMBERS: No, it is three weeks!] – I am not aware of the other week, but if it is three weeks, it could be that other Hon. Members got coupons and others did not because I also collect from the same pool and I got them.

        THE HON. SPEAKER: In the past two weeks?

       HON. TOGAREPI: Yes, but they did not get anything this last week, some had to stay in Harare with relatives. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –

         THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much for that information. Again, honestly two weeks, two weeks muchitambura?  - [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – Ini ndiripo? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mina ngikhona? [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I think you have a problem, you have a problem.  In Ndebele we say, umntwana ongakhaliyo ufela embelekweni, mwana asingacheme anofira mumbereko, but do not wait until you are about to die. Let us handle these issues spontaneously as they arise so that we can find some solution accordingly - [HON. MEMBERS: Salary! salary!] – I have taken those two, the rest of welfare, I wait to be advised by your two Chief Whips and the Committee on Welfare. Thank you.

I have a request from Hon. Gwangwaba on a point of national importance.

        ^HON. GWANGWABA: Good afternoon.  I have stood to talk about a problem along the Zambezi River.  The Zambians are coming into the Zambezi River and are now killing our relatives along that river.  Right now, as I am talking, in the Negandini area of Nyaminyami, there is someone called Robert Mpofu who was killed by the Zambian poachers, and up to now, we have not yet retrieved his body.

        I am appealing to the parks rangers and also the army to intervene.

       THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.  However, this question concerns the Zambezi Valley, so it should be a written question so that the Minister of Environment, Climate and Wildlife can properly respond.  I suggest that you write to the Clerk of Parliament so that next week during the Question and Answer Session, the Minister will respond.  I thank you.

        HON. MATEWU: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir.  I rise on a point of national interest.  Mr. Speaker Sir, on the 5^th of April 2024, that is last Friday, the Reserve Bank Governor, Dr. John Mushayavanhu issued the Monetary Policy Statement in terms of the Reserve Bank Act, [Chapter 22;15] which was followed by the Presidential Powers and Temporary Measures, [S.I. 60 of 2024].   

        Mr. Speaker Sir, we expect the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion to come to this House and explain to us how the new currency is going to work.  We owe it to the people, whether we are also going to amend the Finance Act which we voted for in December of 2023 because if the new currency is going to work, the common denominator must be confident.  We must be confident that it will work, the people of this country, the region, and the international community must be confident in the new currency.

       However, confidence will only come if the Government is confident in our currency.  Hence, we need to know if the Finance Act which put everything in USD terms with respect to government services, I am talking about passport fees, fuel and every service that the Government offers, must then follow suit and be accessible in Zimbabwe Gold (ZiG) otherwise this will remain a damn spat and it will not work.

  So, Mr. Speaker, we expect the Minister of Finance to come to this House and amend the Finance Act to ensure that we can now pay for anything in Central Government using ZiG, otherwise we are wasting our time.  I thank you.

        THE HON. SPEAKER: Your request is accepted and will ask the Hon. Minister to present a ministerial statement to explain so that after his explanation, as representatives of the people, you will be able then to go back and explain equally, in equal measure, to the people you represent.

        HON. MUTSEYAMI: Good afternoon Hon. Speaker Sir.  Hon. Speaker Sir, my point of national importance is that we have an International Day of the Victims of Enforced Disappearances which is on the 30^th of August, 2024.  Zimbabwe has neither signed nor acceded to the Convention.  This Convention applies to the victims who would have died as a result of the disaster, like Cyclone Idai, it applies as well to enforced disappearances like we have situations we had, of people like Itai Dzamara, Manyama, and many others who passed on then.

         So, Mr. Speaker Sir, my appeal, through your office, is to find means as to how we can come up with the motivation for our Government to accede to this Convention since I believe it is an important Convention which applies as well to us as a country.  I thank you.

       THE HON. SPEAKER: We will engage the relevant Minister and find out the modalities on how to handle your request.  

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

       HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order Number 8 has been disposed of.

      HON. KARIKOGA: I second.

      Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND

RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2023

       Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the year 2023.

       Question again proposed.

       HON. DR. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  Thank you for this important opportunity Mr. Speaker, to contribute my views on this important report.

        The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission is one of the most important Commissions in the country.  Important because it addresses issues that are critical and fundamental to development, Vision 2030 and the attainment of an upper middle-class income society by 2030. Peace and reconciliation, conflict prevention and conflict resolution are all prerequisites to sustainable development and success.  You only have to look at Israel and Gaza in the State of Palestine for a more graphic representation of the absence of peace and reconciliation.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Commission for a clear report on activities which I must admit had also educated me on how broad the mandate and scope is, from political conflict to early marriages and teen pregnancies, drug and substance abuse, agriculture and mining conflict to human wildlife conflict as well as sources of conflict that afflict communities resulting in the absence of peace.  Indeed, the report demonstrates peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us.

        Mr. Speaker, the Commission established in terms of Section 232 of the Constitution, has its report demonstrating its commitment to conflict prevention and social cohesion through programmes and activities that were rolled out to all the 10 provinces, cascading to local levels, the villages and schools, creating ownership for peace and reconciliation through local participation and proffering of solutions for cohesion and reconciliation.

        I applaud the Commission for the extent of coverage given limited resources and delayed budget disbursement.  Out of the 105 new complaints received in 2023 and added to the 2022 backlog to make it 138, the Commission was able to conclude by way of investigation and resolution on all these cases ensuring peace and reconciliation as the basis for development.

       Of concern and for attention is the fact that 47% were political conflicts. 27% were Masvingo Province followed by Mashonaland East Province.  The political parties and political leaders need to be accountable and very supportive of the Commission’s pursuit for peace through resolution of past, present and future conflicts.  Mr. Speaker Sir, the Commission’s strategic plan for 2023 is comprehensive and focuses on specific but broad issues, all seeking to achieve its vision of a peaceful Zimbabwe for all generations.

        With a lot of activities focusing on political conflict because of elections, the Commission successfully campaigned through various media advertising platforms, peace caravan vehicles across provinces and indeed, peace prevailed before, during and after elections.  That was a job well done.  The Commission was very visible during the period reported on and their message was present and visible, achieving the intended results.

         Mr. Speaker Sir, again I applaud the Commission for structuring itself to be able to go beyond the obvious sources and causes of conflict.  The villages, households and local communities all participated as a foundation of national peace and development.  The Commission is applauded for programmes and initiatives on Gender-Based Violence, teen pregnancies and child marriages, drug and substance abuse, farming and mining conflict and human and wildlife conflict among others. These were brought to the fore, how they are potential sources of conflict and if left unchecked, can be serious conflict situations affecting national peace.

         In the same vein, let me acknowledge and commend the Commission for complying with section 9 of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission on gender equality in its organisational structure.  I think that is why they have been able to cover so much, taking preventative actions and mediating or conciliating disputes for peace.  The setting up of child protection units and anti-stock theft communities among others, with the participation of local leadership is a sustainable way of ensuring long term peace and reconciliation.

         The Commission adopted an effective strategy which is that local communities under their local traditional and political leadership, are best positioned to deal with conflicts applying indigenous knowledge and ways of investigating and dealing with conflict.

        Mr. Speaker Sir, the establishment of peace champions and ambassadors for anti-drug abuse, drug awareness campaigns and gender focal persons in schools and communities indeed is applauded. It is a sustainable way of dealing with the scourge, and is to be applied to the other challenges to address addiction, antisocial behaviour and violence which undermine peace.  It also addresses sexual violence and child marriages among others.

       Mr. Speaker Sir, the report clearly outlines the major socio-economic challenges impacting on peace and reconciliation, key among them marginalisation of some communities, poor road infrastructure, poor communication networks, management of natural resources and non-harmonisation of some pieces of legislation.  An example here is the Mines and Minerals Act of 1961, on how it deals with agriculture priorities and mining priorities.

Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me at this juncture, to thank His Excellency the President Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa for recognising the top performance by NPRC and giving them a top performance award.  I congratulate NPRC for such a performance.  It has proved beyond doubt that all Commissions led by women are doing excellently well.

        In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, I urge Government to adopt and actualise the Commission’s recommendations for continued improvements and sustainable peace.  There are recommendations on specific areas, from drug and substance abuse to human and wild life conflict and mining by makorokozas.  Addressing all these potential sources of conflict provides basis for sustainable economic growth in line with vision 2030.

Let me end Mr. Speaker Sir, by saying peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us.  I thank you Mr. Speaker.

       THE HON. SPEAKER:  The Hon. Member going outside, can you come and see me now.

       HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this very important report that was tabled by the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.  I will begin by quoting one of our great late Vice President Ubaba John Landa Nkomo, who coined the adage to say ‘peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us’. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  That is a sort of visionary leadership that creates the atmosphere that we require as a country to prosper.

       Mr. Speaker Sir, we have seen the conflict zones of our world, how devastating and how painful people live under those kinds of conditions.  I remember one great nation in Africa here, Libya, which was well led by one great leader, the late Col. Gaddafi, what a peaceful country.  Everything was going well for them until conflict started.   I remember at one point, the Libyans were actually, if you wanted to go and study outside their country, the Government was providing for you everything. Their buildings were all quite okay but when conflict was brought by the people that love to bring conflicts in most parts of the world, now they are living in abject poverty.  It is so scary.  

I will want to commend our Government, our President, His Excellency Hon. Dambudzo Mnangagwa.  I want to commend all the stakeholders of Government, including you Mr. Speaker Sir, as the head of this institution.  I am glad today you put it so well that umntwana ongakhaliyo ufela embelekweni. The peace that we enjoy as Zimbabwe is the kind of peace that can only prosper us as a nation.  It is so important therefore, to safeguard that peace at whatever cost. This Commission that was put, has actually done so.  We have just come out of our own elections in 2023.  I am sure everybody here will definitely agree with me that our elections were so free and fair, all because of the peaceful environment that we enjoy as a country.  That is the kind of peace we need to all safeguard here, despite our ideologies or our standing in society.

        If we look at this Commission, they have actually tried to guard and prevent more than curing.  This is exactly what we ought to advocate for as Members of Parliament here as we go out to our constituencies.  We should never find ourselves in a situation where we now want to put off the fire.  We must always make sure that the fire does not start in the beginning.  This now talks to us understanding that we are supposed to be one here.  I have always on many occasions, stood up and say there is no Shona, no Ndebele, no Venda, no Tonga or Kalanga.  We are all one creation by God and the moment we understand that, we are going to live together harmoniously.  The moment we try and want to separate each other, the moment we try to say this one comes from there and this one comes from there, this is where conflict will begin.  This is where we will never progress as a nation.

        I was saying to somebody, in most cases, the only person who knows exactly who you are is your mother.  I will get up and say I am a Tshuma, but do I really know that I am a Tshuma?  What if my mother took a turn - and this I say more particularly to people that want to be tribal all the time.  You will hear somebody saying, I am Shona, ndiri mushona chaiye and I have said to somebody - what if your mother took a turn and met a Khumalo guy and you are Khumalo and you are hating your own people?  So, we should never hate each other because of things that we have no control over.  It is very important as Members of Parliament to actually spread the word of love.  If you cut a Shona speaking person, it is red blood, so is a Ndebele person, so is a Venda, so is even a Tonga.  Why are we then now trying to separate each other over things that really do not matter?

        I even say to other people, are you aware that once upon a time, everybody spoke the same language?  The only mistake that they tried to do was to build a tower over Babylon to go into the heavens.  God now said no, these people are now trying to come into my bedroom, and he separated them. That is how people started speaking different languages so that they could not understand each other in order for them to try and do their project of trying to build going up.  So, we were once one people, talking the same language.  So, it is very imperative for people to understand that peace will only begin when you realise that there is no Shona, there is no Ndebele, there is no Kalanga, we are all one.

       I want us as a House to understand that there are some institutions that also want to bring havoc in our societies.  Those institutions must be dealt with and be dead expeditiously.  For example, I was appalled to see the way the City Council authorities, here in Harare and even in Bulawayo, the city council police, how they treat vendors.  They will go out there, beat them up and loot their stuff.  Now, can you imagine one day, if those people will stand up and say enough is enough, what is going to happen?  There is going to be a conflict and we are going to lose lives.  People are going to be injured because of somebody who does not want to be responsible enough to know and be cautious enough to say if this person is doing something wrong, there are good ways of dealing with such a situation than being inhuman in the manner that we have seen these Harare Municipality Police, the Bulawayo Municipality Police, conduct their business.

       So, it is very important to have all these institutions probably re-oriented and let them know how to carry out their duties, even the police themselves.  For example, if you go to a soccer match between Highlanders and Dynamos, most of the violence emanates from the police themselves. They become trigger-happy and they shoot teargases all over, then what is next is stampede and people are injured, some even lose their lives.  It is important for our national institutions to also adhere to good governance, the one that you always pray for when you open Parliament here.  It is very important that people always think about those things and do things in a dignified way.  We are human beings, we should be dignified.  It is even like people who issue us with coupons here in Parliament, you actually go there as Hon. Members of Parliament, we are now like sort of fighting over there to simply get coupons, whereby a system can be devised…

         HON. MADZIVANYIKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  I have read and understood the National Peace and Reconciliation Report.  The Hon. Member has not spoken to what the report says so far.  Everything that he has spoken about is the coupons, the games and everything which has nothing to do with the National Peace and Reconciliation Report.  With due respect, Mr. Speaker, I humbly request that the Hon. Member debate the National Peace and Reconciliation Report.  I thank you.  

         THE HON. SPEAKER: I hope you have read the report carefully.  One of its recommendations is that peace be maintained in Zimbabwe.  The Hon. Member is trying to say, how does peace escape us?  It is because of unnecessary conflict. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  Hon. Tshuma, please proceed.

        HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.  It is always refreshing to have a Speaker like you, who is very open-minded - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]–

        THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I do not know a Speaker who is like me.

       HON. J. TSHUMA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker.  Thank you for enlightening the Hon. Member so that he opens up his mind to understand that when we speak about conflict, we do not need to have it happen.  We need to actually proffer solutions that can prevent it from happening in the first place.  That is exactly what I was trying to come up with.  That is why I was giving all these examples, even the issue of coupons, I was talking about it as a cause for conflict because we cannot be going there to stampede for something that must be given to us in an honourable manner.  These are the things that should be addressed in any given situation.  

As I was saying, it is very important therefore, for us to look into these things deeply.  Right now, go into even the churches which are supposed to be religious and exemplary in terms of peace and harmoniously living together, there is so much fighting in there. I do not know what Government can do, but we ought to look at that sector. I was amazed to see a video of brethren in a church throwing fists at each other instead of throwing holy fire and good words coming to bless each other but instead, they were fighting.

        These are the kind of things that if not corrected, will then grow and cause society not to be able to live harmoniously. I did not write anything Mr. Speaker. I am saying this from my own head because I am talking of things which are practical and things that are happening, which I think the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission should be looking into as they have ably done. When I began my debate, I said they are more preventative than trying to stop something that has already started occurring.

      So, I want to conclude by saying let us all be grateful for a peaceful nation like ours and let us preserve that peace by all means. We might be different in our ideology. I could be from a certain party and you are from another party, but the Zimbabwe that we have is one. If you go outside of this country, you become a foreigner and you will be treated as such. It does not matter whether you have got a degree or whatever. In a Shona adage they say, mwana waMambo muranda kumwe.

       Therefore, it is important to definitely try by all means whether you go to church and ask God to cast away the demon of trying to sell out your own country. If you are a traditionalist, go to your Mudzimu and ask them to definitely make sure that from today onwards, you actually say to yourself, I will never sell out my country. Do not sell your land, your country and do not demonise it either.

        There are squabbles all over the world. America has bad things that happen every day as well as Britain, China and other countries, but they do not go out there and start talking about it in public. They sort it out themselves just like you said to our Government Chief Whip that he must come to your office and that you are open all the time. They must learn the same thing. Our fellow Zimbabweans must learn the same things that if there is a problem, the President has been open about this when he said I am open for business and my door is open anytime.

Let us come together, let us talk about issues and there is no need to fight.  We are all one and maybe one day if you behave like this, we will stop having people on the left hand and people on the right hand and we will all sit together because you will have seen the kind of mentality that we have. At the moment, at times it is difficult to mix because we might end up having bad apples mixing with good apples and then whatever happens, the basket ends up being rotten. All I can say Mr. Speaker is peace begins with you, peace begins with me and peace begins all of us. I so submit.   

THE HON. SPEAKER: Before I call for further debate, is Hon. Surrender Kapoikilu around and Hon. J. Tshuma around? If so, I want to see them as soon as I vacate the chair.     

Some Hon. Members from the left side having said it is now their turn to debate.

THE HON. SPEAKER: There is no list here. I have four eyes and there is no list here under item Order No. 3. Sorry.

       +HON. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Hon. Speaker for this opportunity. I will add my voice from what I read from the NPRC Report. The first thing that I would want to dwell on the NPRC Report is that it was given a lifespan of ten years. The Commission existed from 2013 to August 2023. What made them to fail to work perfectly is that the lifespan had elapsed. Reading this report, I found out that when they tried to rectify the conflicts of 2008, they were told that their lifespan had expired, which meant that they failed to work perfectly.

When reading the NPRC works dwelling on the past, the present and the future which is upcoming, peace is a prerequisite to everyone and it is within everyone. Peace is like food that we consume. If you do not have food, you do not have peace, you are disturbed and without peace, you are disturbed. A country without peace does not develop. A country without peace does not advance in anything because there would be nothing happening because people will always be at each other’s throat fighting.

In this report, I found out that there is an issue that concerns us a lot. Where we are here, we are said to be on the East and what I can say is it is on the West in Matebeleland. This issue of early childhood marriages or children that are forced into intimate relationships

before they reach age of maturity.   This is one thing that the NPRC was supposed to look into but because they do not have enough arresting powers, it is now being said their time for existence has elapsed.

Like I said, NPRC focuses on what happened in the past, present and future.  There are issues that happened in the past that still need the NPRC’s attention, issues that happened in 1980 to 1983 of the Gukurahundi that still need to be attended to, people are still surviving with such issues to date. This is happening because no one is willing to address these issues. It is like a wound that is within someone and no one is willing to treat it.

I can refer up to 1987, but all that I am making reference to is from the report, it is not coming from my head. We had our inter-party dialogue in 2008 that gave birth to the Kariba Draft; in 2009 the Constitution gave birth to the Government of National Unity (GNU). This is all the NPRC would look into and fix a lot of issues since we have unity.  We have seen instances of grievances that need to be addressed. If possible, I am appealing through you Madam Speaker, that the NPRC Commission be revived, but we need the NPRC’s report to be in existence.

We request for everyone to be united, even from the churches through to traditional leaders.  We want representatives from all religious sectors because if we take views from only one party, we will not achieve our purpose of having reconciliation because it will be one-sided. 

HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me the opportunity to debate on this report, the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Report.

Madam Speaker, let me acknowledge that the Commission has managed to abide by the provisions of the Constitution as well as the provisions of the legislation, which is the National Reconciliation Act of 2018 in respect of submitting their report and I think it is commendable. We need to understand, Madam Speaker, the genesis of this Commission for this is a very important Commission as alluded to by my fellow Hon. Members who debated before me.  Zimbabwe has had a history that we are not proud of and it resulted in several conflicts leading to thousands of our people perishing because of the differences that we have had.

After 1980, we have had two cases that resulted in the setting up of this Commission and you know that before the setting up of this Commission, the Inclusive Government had a tripartite Ministry of National Healing and Reconciliation then led by the former Vice President, the late Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo, Hon. Sekai Holland and the late Hon. Gibson Sibanda.  They came up with foundation by which the 2013 Constitution was birthed and also the setting up of this Commission.

In our earlier years of Independence Madam Speaker, we lost thousands of people during what we call Gukurahundi in the early 80s. I know that the late President of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe acknowledged that it was a moment of madness though to date, the scars of that Gukurahundi are not yet healed.  I say this because during that time I was doing my Grade One - I know that many of the Hon. Members were yet to be born, but without closure and mechanism to make sure that there is reconciliation and peace building, it becomes a problem for this nation to move forward.

Then fast forward Madam Speaker, you will also recall that during the 2008 elections, we went through a period where we also lost a lot of lives due to political differences.  This is the reason why when we set up the Inclusive Government, when we did the Global Political Agreement in 2008, the first thing that we did was to make sure that we have this Commission.  Unfortunately, Madam Speaker, it took us five years after the 2013 Constitution, to have the legislation being enacted, which Parliament passed in 2018.

Now, when we want to look at the performance of this Commission, had the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission performed its duties according to the dictates of the legislation, had the NPRC carried its mandate to the satisfaction of the ordinary and general members of Zimbabwe and citizens of Zimbabwe at large, I want to state Madam Speaker, that if you go through the NPRC Act, and I want to start with one of the core fundamental duties and mandates of the Commission, it is conflict management.

It is clearly spelt out in Clause 252 (C) of the NPS which states that NPRC must provide national reconciliation and truth telling.  There is no healing without a mechanism where we are open to each other on what has actually happened.  We know in 1994 there was a genocide in Rwanda.  One of the things that they did in Rwanda was to set that mechanism to have the perpetrators and the victims together so that the truth could be told.  We know South Africa also did that.  Our Commission Madam Speaker, has not done that.  It has not done sufficient work towards the truth telling and reconciliation matrix so that we can move forward.  I know there is an adage that says, time heals but the truth of the matter is that time does not heal.  What heals is an honest and truthful process that takes into account the grievances and injuries of people.

The other issue that the NPRC is supposed to do is conflict prevention. This is also clearly spelt out that the NPRC should have a mechanism to have early warning mechanisms so that they avoid conflict.  One of the things that you will realise from this report

is that when you look at it, it talks about the 2023 Elections. You will realise that there were quite several political conflicts but the NPRC, I want to submit that it did not take a proactive role.  I note from their report that they talk about the peace caravans, and what they did to try to talk about peace during the elections.

 However, one would have expected more from this Commission in that we needed to see a chapter or two or three paragraphs where we understand the discussions in terms of what the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission should have done in terms of the political players that were participating in the elections.  We wanted to see that being brought in and the mechanism to see the various Sub-Committees that were set up in terms of making sure that we will prevent conflict.  

If you check, Madam Speaker, you will then realise that most of the cases that are set by the Commission create a problem in terms of resolving some of these matters.  We have been told that there were several cases, we know that Masvingo topped the list with 27 and Mashonaland East with 22, but what we do not see from this report is what then happened.  Was there prosecution, discussion, national healing? The reason is because the National Peace Reconciliation Commission’s job is not just to give us statistics without telling us what then happened and how the Commission then sat with the various protagonists in terms of making sure that we will not have similar problems.

The other aspect which I wanted to mention; if you look at this report, it is interesting.  It says that in other provinces, the cases were so many, but then there is an interesting aspect. In Bulawayo Province, there were zero cases reported to the National Peace Reconciliation Commission.  There are two issues, either the people in Bulawayo are so peaceful and they are leaving in harmony or it is because the National Peace, Reconciliation Commission did not have its tentacles across all the parts of Zimbabwe.  Technically, I do not believe that it is possible, if NPRC was covering the entire nation, that it could fail to have cases being reported, even just to have one or two cases being reported to it.  I think there is some anomaly in those figures and something needs to be looked into.

Madam Speaker, the report briefly talks about the financial aspect in respect to the things that the NPRC has done.  One of the things that I would have loved to see in this report, just like we want to see company reports where you put your financial report and we also have an auditor’s report pertaining to the usage of the funds because this is one of the things that is fundamental.  We want our Chapter 12 Commissions to operate above board.  Part of the reason why we need this to happen is that we have also discovered that one of the key drivers of conflict in this country is the usage of public resources.  It is crucial that Chapter 12 Commissions like the National Peace Reconciliation Commission should lead by example.  Once they have done that, they would have set a template for all other entities to do.

Lastly Madam Speaker, I also note that there is something that is missing from this report.  The Commission groaningly talks about their engagement, cooperation with the police and other State institutions, but for some strange reason, I think it skipped the writers of this report, we know that we have had cases where the citizens of this country have had matters that they have had conflicts with State agencies, police and generally, one would have expected that the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission Report should encompass everything so that we know the state of the nation at a particular time.  The question of leaving some of these conflicts not reported creates a problem.  I believe that inasmuch as we want to thank them for abiding by the Constitution and by the NPRC Act of bringing the report, we are appealing that in their future reports, we hope that they will improve in terms of the content and make sure that they include all aspects of conflict resolution.  I believe conflict is not good for the country and I agree with the late Vice President’s motto which was that ‘peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us’.  Indeed, when we have peace, we will be in a position to live harmoniously, but also prosper as a nation.  

However, peace cannot only just happen, it is the manner we speak, it is the manner we do our business. Even when we are here in Parliament, it does not necessarily mean whenever we have political differences, I think we should agree to disagree on certain matters, but then agree that we are all Zimbabweans and we all have a right to live in this country.  This is our Zimbabwe and Zimbabwe is our country that God gave us.  I thank you.

HON. MUGWADI: Thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate that is on the table which is the report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.  

There are things that I feel I should speak about before I forget them.  If peace is going to be a permanent feature in our communities and the country at large, individual Zimbabweans must be at peace with themselves first. The definition of being at peace with yourself before we go deeper into the report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission is to come to independence and national programmes and I am inviting everyone in this House to come to Murambinda, Buhera and throng the national celebrations of independence.  That is being at peace with yourself.   If you do not come to national fundamental processes or programmes like the national heroes and national independence, it means you are not at peace with yourself and you are a potential threat to peace yourself because you do not know who you are.  

I expect after this report that the Tenth Parliament is going to witness probably a major strategic shift from ambiguities into strategic clarity as far as observing national programmes is concerned.  I have said this because the coming together of a nation is hinged on observing such programmes.  There is no way we can expect to come together and find ourselves in the same thinking cap if we cannot unite on small matters that we must all have total appreciation that indeed this country was fought for and when it was fought for, we need to meet together to celebrate those that gave service to the nation and helped us to be an independent nation with right to self determination and total sovereignty like any other nation. If we cannot be at peace with ourselves around those programmes, we cannot be at peace with each other even as political formations.  

I must say as I go deeper into the report, Madam Speaker, the first thing that I probably want to confront peacefully, the key word there is ‘peacefully’, the issues that have been raised by colleagues from the opposite bench regarding the serious national question of Gukurahundi.  Others say nothing is being done.  Let me bring to your attention in this House…

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mugwadi, when debating, you must not respond to what other Hon. Members have said.  You can refer, but you must not respond.

        HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  May I take this opportunity to appear to refer on the issue in question.  You know Madam Speaker, I want to give you a situation that once happened.  There are people that have loved so much to talk about this issue as if they know anything about it but in reality, they end up exposing themselves because they literally have no knowledge about how this issue unfolded and how this issue is being addressed.

I am very thankful to the Second Republic Madam Speaker, and His Excellency President Mnangagwa’s Government.  When I grew up, the question of Gukurahundi was not an issue that could be talked about.  The word itself could not be said freely but now people are able to raise it at any forum because Government, especially the Second Republic has opened up on the need to allow people, both the people in the communities and societies that were affected, to talk about it freely and express themselves and that is happening under the progamme which is happening in the southern provinces which were by and large affected by that.  So, for anyone to say…

        HON. HAMAUSWA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order?

        HON. HAMAUSWA:  Madam Speaker, I appeal to you to direct the Hon. Member who is debating to focus on the debate.  The report is so fundamental to the nation of Zimbabwe.  It will help this House if we really focus on what is contained in the report.  It will help us and we will also be thankful to the Hon. Member.  Thank you.

         THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I am sure he is also focusing on the report.

         HON. HAMAUSWA:  Madam Speaker, there is nowhere in the report where it is written about Gukurahundi.  The report largely speaks about other issues.

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  He is referring.  Hon. Mugwadi, please may you proceed.

        HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  I reiterate that it is important to be at peace with ourselves.

        HON. SAGANDIRA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, if you have some issues, I will also give you time to debate.  You will also contribute to the debate.

        HON. SAGANDIRA.:  I have a point of order Madam Speaker.  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The fundamental…

        HON. NYABANI:  On a point of order Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] –

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Nyabani, please may you take your seat.

        HON. SAGANDIRA:  Madam Speaker, the fundamental freedoms of human beings are enshrined in Section 58 of the Constitution which talks about the freedom of association and freedom of disassociation.  The Hon. Member who was debating was talking about some Hon. Members who should be attending to functions such as Independence and others, but there is freedom of association and freedom of disassociation.  I thank you Madam Speaker.

        THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, I understand every patriotic Member must attend national programmes.  If you are patriotic, Independence is a national programme – [AN HON. MEMBER:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.] – I am ruling Hon. Member and you cannot raise a point of order over my ruling.  Thank you.

         HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I was about to give reference to an event which was organised by a certain trust one of the days to discuss about this issue of Gukurahundi and there was a 22 year old young man who was invited before a panel of a group of some foreigners, particularly from the Western nations, to give his alleged experiences during this era.  The young man cried before the cameras and then even went further to say he lost his biological mother and father in the process.

       So being a very good listener unlike others, I asked a very pertinent question – ‘young man, you are only 22 years, you say your biological mother and father died during those circumstances.  If you are 22, it means you were born in 2001, because that was last year.  So how do you come to this meeting as a supposed primary source of evidence about Gukurahundi to say your biological mother and father died during that era when it appears you had not yet even been conceived when that happened because you were only born after 2000?’

Why am I raising this issue Madam Speaker…  

      HON. G. HLATYWAYO:  Point of order Madam Speaker.  Madam Speaker, we are debating the NPRC report.  The Hon. Member is telling us stories.  We do not want to hear stories.  Can he debate the report –[HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]–

       THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, you are out of order.

       HON. MUGWADI:  Madam Speaker, I would like to raise a point of privilege.

      THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mugwadi, please may you proceed.

      HON. MUGWADI:  With your indulgence Madam Speaker, I am sure there are issues between me and Hon. Gladys Hlatywayo,but they are very personal; they are very good because they are social between the two of us.  I am sure she wants to hear my voice, otherwise good afternoon Hon. Gladys Hlatywayo.  May I proceed.

        *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  You can go and discuss outside later.

         HON. G. HLATYWAYO:  Point of order Madam Speaker.

HON. HAMAUSWA:  Point of order Madam Speaker.   

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Members of Parliament, please I will not allow you to disrupt the smooth running of this House.

HON. HAMAUSWA:  Madam Speaker I am not disrupting.  Can you allow me to air what I want to say?

THE HON. DEPTUY SPEAKER:  You are disrupting Hon. Member.  Please take your seat.  Please may we behave like Hon. Members and like adults.

HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I just wanted to say there are fundamental national programmes happening in Matabeleland and other certain provinces to address that and everyone is aware, the chiefs are aware.  They are participating.  The victims are aware, they are participating.  There is a whole programme of Government that is happening there.  It might be that you do not like the approach, you are entitled to that.  You may not want the person leading it, you are entitled to your own opinion.  Some even were trying to lobby chiefs from this House not to participate.  The chiefs there were divided, but that does not stop a programme from happening and it is happening.  As Hon. Members, remember, we have a national audience in this House, we can seek to pretend as if there is nothing that is happening, but we may differ with the process that is happening.  You are allowed to differ, that is being at peace again with yourself.

        May I go to the question of elections?  The National Peace and Reconciliation (NPR) report is very clear and categorical, in terms of describing the period before the elections, during and after the elections.  The catch phrase is that everything between those three fundamental periods was very peaceful.  As Zimbabweans, if we are at peace with ourselves in this House, we must start by clapping our hands for our own selves as a nation because we behaved peacefully, chose our leaders peacefully and being in this House, all of us were peacefully chosen, including some of those who appear to be very much disappointed with the peaceful process that even made them to become Hon. Members of this House.

We do not lose anything for acknowledging the reality on the ground that indeed we are a peaceful nation.  Madam Speaker, if you characterise the Zimbabwean situation in comparison with what is happening in countries neighbouring us and some distant, you will appreciate that otherwise in Africa as a whole, there are no peace-loving people that can be comparable to the people of Zimbabwe.  In stead of starting to query our identity, we are a peaceful people and that is the permanent identity that has been bequeathed to us by our forefathers.  Instead of celebrating that identity, someone who is looking into my eye right now wants to present this country as a nation in a catch 22 situation; as a nation that is violent.  I do not know whether there are rewards for presenting our nation in the text of notoriety before international platforms.  

We are peaceful and we had a peaceful election.  Probably, if we compare, we know all what happened in 2018 in the elections preceding the previous.   We had peaceful campaigns before the elections.   We had a peaceful voting process on the day of the elections, but soon after the elections, there was an attempt to torch flames in this country and everyone knows what was attempted on 1^st August, 2018.  There was an attempt on this country, trying to use an electoral process that was peaceful by its own standards to try to ensure that there was violence in Zimbabwe, instability and a disturbance of peace.  However, I am so happy that the majority of the people of Zimbabwe rejected those agents and provocateurs and we were peaceful; peace managed to reign.  If we compare it by the elections of 2023, we never heard any of those instances.  That shows that indeed, the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, the consummation and its works speak for themselves.  We must indeed  acknowledge that this was an institution, very relevant and very viable to the extent that even as its term of office expires, in 2023, we must as Members of Parliament, probably lobby for the extension of its term of office because the nature of human society is such that conflict  is inevitable.  Conflict of one way or the other, like what Hon. Tshuma was talking about.  In fact, it appears to me that those quiring those speaking, have not read the report.  The report itself is even very clear on some of the issues that it ventilated in society.  Some of them involving the dams that he was talking about.  The human and wildlife conflict, the conflicts between societies borders, boundary disputes within villages.  Those things are referred to in this report.  So, I do not think that the House should be bothered by the laziness of others, in terms of reading reports as they come fully in order to be able to debate adequately.

I must speak to the observer missions because the report refers to them, I think on page five.  It spoke to the observer mission of course albeit and brief.  I do not know whether the Commission was fearful of pointing fingers at certain observers.  What I have seen is that, now that we are a matured democracy, there is no doubt about that, we are a mature democracy.  We are further maturing like wine, but we have serious threats to our peaceful core-existence as a people.  I want to say here as Parliamentarians, we can differ in this House.  Some are for and for others it is for the optics, but the truth of the matter is that outside there, we identify ourselves as true Zimbabweans, brothers and sisters with each other.

Now, here is the danger that comes, there are some of us who are very receptive to outsiders and views of outsiders.  Of course, they say he is a fool he who does not take advice from others, but I would like to say, it is a thousand times foolish, he who takes every advice about your nation from everyone that comes from every angle.  The observers that came to observe our elections are not Zimbabweans and they will never be Zimbabweans because after a certain number of days, they will take to the airport and board the aeroplanes and leave.  However, at the end of the day, we are left together as Zimbabweans to heal with each other, to deal with our circumstances and issues.

Now, here is what was attempted in 2023 General Elections, some observers had an agenda.  The agenda not such that you will be in power, especially those who are very feverish and engaged in so much all sorts of friends and experts to get into State House.  They do not want to take you to State House per se, they do not even envision because they know probably that you do not have the capacity to be there, but they want to torch flames because there is a message they want to send about Zimbabwe.  When they present Zimbabwe as a violent nation, investors do not come and invest here, they go to the neighbouring countries…

HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.  Standing Order Number 85, clarifies that a Member must not shout whilst deliberating.  He is shouting at us.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mugwadi, on Standing Order Number 85 (a), a Member, while in the House, must not converse in a loud voice.  So, you must not be debating in a very loud voice.  

HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for reminding me of my duty to find peace with myself.  I agree very well.  I was talking about observer missions.  I was saying these observer missions, some of the conclusions they made are not informed by realities on the ground, but they are aimed at trying to make you and me the opposed and us, lock heads and start fighting.  When we start fighting, they do not stay to see how the violence goes on, they leave.  They go back to their countries and start laughing.  They will be laughing, particularly at those they would have instigated to start violence.

I am so happy that in 2023, we did not have anything of that sort and I know that the temptation might have been there for my colleagues from the opposite bench, but I am sure this time the Holy Spirit worked very well and we should work to resist that temptation even in future.  The report of the NPRC also spoke about the awareness campaigns that were taken by the Commission through the radio, social media, national television and newspapers.  I must say, in fact before I proceed, Madam Speaker, I am sure you are aware that I am a very good timekeeper and I calculate every minute that was taken from by needless interruptions.  Those minutes remain mine.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mugwadi, you are left with five minutes.

HON. MUGWADI: I was saying the Commission’s report

is very clear and talks about activities that were taken by the Commission to work with churches, the media and traditional authorities to educate them and in some instances, resolve disputes between and among them.

  I am so happy particularly with the decision to work with the media. For those who have cared to understand our community, the media is not regulated responsibly and it can take even flames and become a threat to peace and security in this country, peaceful co-existence in particular. The headlines that we make speak about ourselves as a society. There are some headlines like programmes that are started by others that ‘there will be a shut-down in Harare and that if we do not remove someone peacefully, we will remove them violently’.

In some instances, with the elections or without the elections, we will achieve a certain political end. Those things have got a potential to disrupt our peaceful co-existence. I am sure the NPRC needs to look into this issue to understand and also begin to monitor the language that politicians speak, whether that language is sensitive enough to respect the need for peaceful co-existence or not.  There should be certain punishments levied on politicians who are insightful.

Some of the politicians could be suffering from mental inadequacies and they end up threatening peace during elections, during campaigns or unleashing young people or other members of the society. That should not happen. I am so happy that the NPRC was able to engage even political leaders around communities in order to familiarise them with the need to have peaceful non-violent elections.

As I conclude, there is a question of being at peace with our own culture. When we are talking about peace, we are not talking about the absence of violence, that is not what peace is all about. That is why I started with the concept of being at peace with yourself as an individual. There is need for our society to be at peace with its own culture and I am so happy that on page 38, the NPRC refers to it that there is a growing trend which is becoming a threat to our own culture and peace as a society.

The culture and trend of adopting, grabbing and trying to impose certain practices, some of them referred to in the report like drug abuse, we did not have a culture of drug dealing in our society. It is an imported phenomenon, just as much as we do not have a culture or tradition of homosexuality. I am sure and so sadly, that there are those who worship it and there are those who have vouched the police and some of them in this House. I do not want to name them but they know themselves but the NPRC sticks to that. That is the only way we can be able to let peace reign when we are at peace with our own culture, even not cutting down trees, not to indulge into homosexuality. Thank you so much Madam Speaker for the time.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, let me draw your attention to the ruling which I made on Rule No. 85 (a). “A member, while in the House, must not converse in a loud voice,” it is not referring to an Hon. Member who is debating, but it is referring to Hon. Members whilst you are sitting there, you must not be talking in loud voices. Please, may you all be guided accordingly. Thank you.

HON. GUMEDE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise today to address a matter of paramount importance to the stability and prosperity of our nation. The NPRC, as custodians of the people’s interest, it is our solemn duty to ensure that this vital institution operates effectively, transparently and in accordance with legislative frameworks set forth in our Constitution and established under Section 251 of our Constitution, the NPRC best way to responsibility of fostering national healing, peace building and reconciliation.

It is the linchpin upon which the public of our society’s unity is. However, as we gather here today, we cannot ignore the critical short-comings that have hindered the NPRC’s duty in fulfilling its mandate. On the strategic alignment with national goals, the NPRC alliance with Zimbabwe’s Development blueprints including the National Development Strategy 1 and Vision 2030, it also underscores its commitment to contribute in the country’s overall problem by focusing on things such as conflict prevention and reconciliation. The NPRC demonstrates its recognition of peace as a crucial catalyst for development.

It also noted its comprehensive approach to conflict resolution using a multifaceted approach to conflict management, encompassing complaints handling, research, victims support and gender sensitive initiatives. It also reflects a deeper understanding of a complex nature of conflicts in Zimbabwe by addressing issues such as political conflicts, early child marriages and of human-wildlife conflicts. The NPRC demonstrates its commitment to promoting peace at various levels of society.

I note again, its proactive measures to prevent conflicts during electoral periods including voter education and engagement with political parties. It has more potential if it works in earnest with multi-stakeholder infrastructures for peace to create an enabling environment for peaceful elections as well as contributing to the stability and democratic processes in Zimbabwe. Empowerment through the NPRC holds emphasis on dialogue, mediation and capacity building initiatives, underscoring its commitment to empower communities, to resolve conflicts peacefully by training peace structures, gender focal persons and internal mediators.

The NPRC does invest in building sustainable peace building capacities at both local and national levels. On evidence-based policy recommendation, the report research efforts and subsequent policy recommendations demonstrates more of its commitment to evidence-based decision making in conflict resolution and peace building.  We see that it is commissioning research projects on social cohesion and artisanal mining meaning, it generates valuable insights that can inform targeted interventions and policy reforms to address underlying causes of conflicts.

The report also speaks to resource mobilisation and operational efficiency in that, despite facing challenges such as staff attrition and inadequate resources, it has resilience in delivering its mandate effectively. A budget support amounting to $11.2 billion, the NPRC prioritises service delivery while investing in staff wellness and capacity building initiatives to maintain a motivated workforce.

Finally, collaborative partnerships for peace with stakeholders such as the Zimbabwe Council of Churches and Africa University underscores recognition of the importance of collective action in promoting peace and reconciliation.  In leveraging expertise and resources from diverse partners, the NPRC strengthens its impact and reach in advancing its peace-building agenda.

Overally, the NPRC’s executive summary reflects a comprehensive and proactive approach to promoting peace, reconciliation and justice in Zimbabwe by addressing a wide range of conflict related issues and leveraging strategic partnerships.  It demonstrates its commitment to fostering sustainable peace and development in the country and with the NPRC’s shortcomings, there seems to be a result of being prevented from meeting the constitutional mandate.  It looks like it has not enjoyed much support from the Executive and faced numerous funding and operational challenges as a result.

Its composition also contributed to its lack of independence and effectiveness. It failed to tackle the Gukurahundi subject and to establish a way forward that creates peace.  If it takes a Jomic style mechanism, for example, it will have political strength to confront politically motivated violence.  We need a stronger NPRC and for it to be strong, it needs the right people as Commissioners, adequate budgets, a streamlined and concise mandate.  The NPRC should have clear and narrower responsibilities.  Its current functions remain too wide and too broad.  Parliament must also play a more proactive role to protect bodies such as the NPRC from external interference.  Party activists, for example, must not be Commissioners.  The NPRC’s lifespan should be extended with restructuring and re-organisation so that it is more independent, effective and efficient.  I thank you.

HON. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity to add my voice to the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission debate.  Allow me to reiterate Madam Speaker, what one of the Hon. Members said earlier, Hon. Mugwadi on the importance of attending national events like Independence Day.  It is not just an event, but an important marker of peace, and an indicator of achieving peace in our sovereign country.  So, it goes without saying that an elected legislator should attend such an important event that celebrates peace and independence in this country. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –A lot has been debated and I will do my best not to be redundant and repetitious.  Peace is very important in any nation and is a prerequisite for continuous economic development in any country.

First of all, I am glad that the Commission reported on its financials timely to demonstrate its use of public resources which was above board according to the Auditor-General and also according to the Commission’s Act, the report was submitted on time, which is recommendable. I am also happy that the Commission engaged all its stakeholders across the board, showing that they do not operate on an island. It also shows good corporate governance.

Let me also state that when it comes to receiving and resolving complaints, the Commission did a splendid job – if you look at the report, over 138 complaints were received and 104 of those complaints were resolved, which is over 75% of resolved conflicts.  This speaks to the efficiency of the commission, hence let me applaud the NPRC Commissioners and staff for such a splendid job.

On awareness campaigns, I am happy to read that the Commission outdid itself.  They over achieved when it comes to doing these awareness campaigns which is part of their programming.  If you look at their targets, the Commission had targeted to do 40 campaigns, but if you look at the report, they did 66 campaigns. Again, this speaks to the attitude and spirit of the NPRC Commissioners and staff, which I also think is commendable.

Let me focus on rehabilitation programs and report on drug and substance abuse amongst youths, if you look at the prevention of conflicts. The report explicitly states that the uptake of drugs and substances resulted in invalid behaviour.  I am glad that the House debated on drug and substance abuse and that relevant ministries should take a look at this aspect of the report and consider the recommendations.

 I am happy to read that when the Commission was conducting its campaigns in schools and communities, they also took time to take notes and recommendations from students and members of the public, some of the recommendations are noteworthy.  For example, some of the students suggested that in order to curb drug and substance abuse, NPRC should encourage other line ministries or law enforcement to do the following: the need for boarder checks to stop the illegal inflow of drugs and toxic substances; training of school heads and teachers in psycho-social support, counselling and therapy skills in order to assist learners; partner with Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) for training sessions and awareness campaigns, especially exhibiting samples of commonly abused drugs; establish peace champions or ambassadors for anti-drug abuse and hold drug awareness campaigns in schools.  I think these suggestions are very good and the relevant authorities should consider them.

In conclusion, I also encourage the Commission to visit other countries where they can look at best international practices where they can best enhance their programming in the lifespan of their Commission.  Especially visiting countries like Rwanda, for example, where peace and reconciliation was done at the highest possible level.  

So, in conclusion, I think the report is splendid.  The Commission is doing its job and should be commended for that.  I thank you.

      HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thought I should also add my voice to this NPRC report which I found to be very informative and which was done on time.

 The Commission respected the requirements of the Act, NPRC Act [Chapter 10:32] and they reported on time, which is very important and must be applauded for.  I want to say as the oversight entity, Parliament must feel respected and the people of Zimbabwe respected when a Commission sticks to the expectations of the law.

Madam Speaker, I also observed in this report that they talked about their theme which was the prevention of conflict.  It was a very critical and proactive approach and you could see this in many of their activities during the period of the report.  They did a lot of awareness campaigns to ensure that communities live in harmony.  They went around educating many communities as a way of preventing conflict and that was very crucial.

       I also observed that the Commission also has an area where they deal with research; researching about conflict and sources of conflict.  I thought deeply about it looking at the issues that you see on social media, newspapers, and various forums where people talk about conflict.  Sometimes some of the said conflicts may not be conflicts per se but in Zimbabwe, we have a tendency where we have a group of our citizens or nationals who survive on creating stories either for sympathy, to make money from donors or just to create an environment where when you look at it, you would think there will be no Zimbabwe the next day.

      However, with research, NPRC can also research whether these are not stories created just to cause disharmony among the people of Zimbabwe.  Where there is evidence that conflict is being perpetrated by either a group of people or a specific part of our population, it should be taken proactively to ensure that we prevent conflict.

I also want to applaud the Commission for its inclusive approach. I saw they engaged churches, chiefs, and many groups in our society; the effort was to find ways of preventing conflict. I hope in the future, NPRC will come to this House and also find a way of creating harmony.  Madam Speaker, you may have noticed that when we started this Tenth Session of Parliament, there was acrimony and words that were being thrown across the divide.  Therefore, I think we also need NPRC here to manage some of the petty misunderstandings.  They start petty like that and end up creating conflict that can even disturb the harmony of our nation.  

National Peace and Reconciliation Commission also hinged their effort on our NDS 1 to say ‘with peace, development follows suit’.  So, the effort by the Commission will bring peace and once we have peace, an atmosphere conducive to economic development will then be created.  

I want to say the Commission is serious about its mandate, the attitude that we see in the Commission must be respected and I encourage Parliament and the Government, to allocate enough resources for this important Commission so that they do their work and continue to create an atmosphere of harmony among our people so that we develop our country.  Future generations to be on a foundation where our people are united.  This different categorisation where people either say you are this type of tribe, church, political party, and all these other things, need to be dealt with very early before we develop into a situation that we may not be able to deal with in the future.

Madam Speaker, you would find that the NPRC had challenges. One of the challenges was polarisation, like I have already said, I think they may also want to come to Parliament or they may also want to continue working on removing polarisation.   We have a culture that has been developing for a long time, from 2000 upwards where our people believe that if they have different political persuasions, they become enemies, they declare enmity that they do not want to interact with anybody, they call each other names - that is polarisation.  Even if something is done, that is very good for the country, but because I am from a different position, I just have to oppose it.  There should come a time as a people that what is good; we stand together and say this is good for our nation and encourage the good things to proceed.  Where something is wrong, we then stand together again and blame what is wrong and promote what is good.  Therefore, it is very critical to observe such things.  NPRC observed that this polarisation is the source of much of the discontent or the conflicts that we face.

The other issue was related to the inadequacy of resources.  We all agreed and I got my other fellow Members debating here, appreciating the good work of the NPRC.  If we appreciate that they are doing a good job, why are we underfunding them? We must fund them adequately so that they continue to unite our people and it is good for the image of our country. The other issue that I saw in the report was about them not being sure about their future because the law appeared to say they were supposed to live for a period and then disband.  It looks like while they are doing this good job, they are also asking themselves are we going to be there tomorrow.  I want to encourage Government and Parliament to really ensure that they give this Commission certainty so that they know that they will continue to work in that space encouraging our people to be united.

      They are losing workers to attrition, people going for greener pastures.  As we lose those who are capable, who have passion to work in this Commission, it means we are losing on people who can achieve the objectives of the Commission. I think it is again upon Parliament and Government to ensure that they have adequate resources to employ technical people.  They could be legal people, they could be people who are professionals in counselling, all those people they want in their day to day activities.  They must be there and their expertise maintained in the Commission.  If we allow them or we leave them to lose such critical workers, it means we may not then get what we saw in this report.  What we have seen them doing when they are coming to our communities to ensure that we live in harmony as a people.

Madam Speaker, I would really want to say as Government, as Parliament we need to give them enough support and continue to give them enough space to then do their work for the good of all of us.  I am happy that the President has always said let us live in harmony as a people and I am happy that in this House, all Hon. Members who were debating also encouraged the same, taking cue from what the President has always been saying.  It means peace is critical to everybody.  We want to go home and sleep, not imagine that somebody would disturb my peace.  I want to come to Parliament, work and represent the people of Zimbabwe peacefully knowing that the peace that I want as a person is also given to the next person and we are all in harmony. That alone will give you even time or the interest even to research on issues that we debate here.

So many of these areas that are challenging our people, they talked about the child abuse that we see, we see issues that they discussed in their reports around drug abuse, all those areas can only be dealt with, followed either by Parliament or by Government if we are working together.  Anything that disturbs peace stops us from concentrating on issues that are important for the survival of our nation.  So all the issues that are worrying us, we must also ask ourselves as individuals that as I am worried about conflict, how many of these areas where conflict is found, am I also involved?  

I hope in their researches, Madam Speaker, the NPRC will also investigate lies because rumours can be created about an individual.  Lies can be created and the whole world then believes.  We are actually in a very difficult state as a country, but when you see Hon. Members here appear to be throwing words across the divide, you think they hate each other.  I will tell you and if the NPRC were going to come here, I would tell them these people are lying because I see them hand in hand happy everywhere.  They only want to come here, make a lot of noise.  Maybe because of cameras they want to be seen like they have problems.

       I have seen Hon. Members from the opposite side and Hon. Members from my side pretend to be shouting.  I do not know who they want out there to see that they can shout at each other, but I see you in hotels very close, sharing closely and when you come here you pretend to be enemies.  So, it is my hope that as Parliamentarians, let us be a good example.  The good relationship - I see you in each other’s cars talking, sharing the same table, joking every time.  If we can take that home and help the Commission on its work to unite the people of Zimbabwe, you will become complete representatives of the people of Zimbabwe than pretending.

      I am telling everybody from this side and that side, do not pretend. I think some are paid to be seen on camera making noise or insulting each other.  We want to have a harmonious country, a country full of happiness.  We need to respect each other. When I see an Hon. Member, when I see a person from any other political party, he is a Zimbabwean first before he becomes that other person on that side of politics. We should live together, friendly, with the same hope for our country so that we move forward.

       Madam Speaker, it is my hope that after this debate on this Commission’s report, when we go out there, maybe with your recommendation or your ruling Madam Speaker, we can travel together to communities with maybe the leadership of NPRC so that we go and tell them that when we come here, when my other Hon. Member is not there when I say they are bad, I would be lying.  Do not listen to me. We are all the same.  That will be very good because as politicians, we must learn from our leadership.

         I can speak on behalf of my President.  Whenever you complain or raise negative things about others, he has always says to me, when you think that he is doing that which is bad, what have you done in return which is good so that that person is converted to then follow you because you are doing good?  If you insult and I also insult, where do we end with a polarised environment that is not good for the development of our country.

I just stood up to debate after realising that there were Hon. Members who really wanted to flex their muscles, but the issue of this report was to show us the environment that we are living in, the challenges that we are facing.  What we can do as a people to ensure that we live as one, harmoniously and peacefully.  That is a critical prerequisite for the development of this important nation.  

So Madam Speaker, I hope you will take my word and request the NPRC to come and ensure, if you were going to allow me, that we may dissolve this divide and have people sitting among each other because the mentality of just sitting on the other side, you will just see yourself as different, but we are all Zimbabweans.  Let us be united and be peaceful for the development of this beautiful country and I would be very happy to see that we are united, we develop our country which is the only country that we have.  If I say negative about you, if I say anything negative about our country, the suffering that comes does not affect you alone or me alone.  We all suffer for using our mouths for the wrong things.  I want to encourage all the people of Zimbabwe who are going to read this report to respect each other and live in peace and develop this country.  I thank you.

      THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Togarepi.  For the first time, I have seen unanimous agreement on a debate.  That is highly commendable.  Also, we will take note of your recommendations.  

        HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. May I also take this opportunity to add my voice on the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission (NPRC).  I am happy that we are debating this as a nation and also trying to mend ways to make sure that we also bring development in Zimbabwe.  One of the roles of the NPRC is to ensure peaceful resolutions of disputes, post conflict healing and justice and conflict prevention.  May I also go to the issue of community engagement, which is also highlighted in the report.  The report highlights the extent of community engagement that took place during the peace and reconciliation tour.  The Commission highlighted instances where they worked closely with the local people and also the community also managed to add their voices on the issue of the report.  They were also trying to promote inclusivity and ownership of reconciliation processes at the grassroots level.

As part of the Commission’s community engagements’ observations that were reported, some of the issues which were mentioned include the issue of drug and substance abuse, the issue of child marriages, and shortage of medical facilities in some of the hospitals in the rural areas.   Conflicts that are arising from these issues were highlighted in the report.  However, the report does not address on how these issues can be addressed.  What actions were taken to prevent or minimise these issues because of importance are the issues of child marriages.  The report mentioned the arrests of drug barons but does not offer a solution or actions that have been taken to help the drug users.  The report mentioned on pages 29 and 31 the interventions to curb the excessive use of drugs, but does not highlight on the issue of recommendations on what will also happen.

The report did not mention the issue of those children, especially the young girls on the issue of their safety.  Another issue that was raised in this report is child marriages and how communities are not reporting some of these issues.  The report did not also mention how we can also educate the community on the issue of child marriages.  The report also highlighted, which was one of the things I am also touched with, the issue of the benefits from the donations that are brought by donors to help these young mothers to an extent that these young mothers would see as if it is a benefit, may be have these kinds of child marriages.

The assertions from the report show that these children are not protected in these communities as the parents also benefits from these child marriages.  As such, it has been observed that the Commission does not address or give recommendations on how these issues of marrying off young girls is being handled and what is being done to ensure these cases are reported and these girls are also assisted.

On human rights violations and transitional practice, given the focus on reconciliation, the report brought to the attention of the Commission’s observation of post-election environment.  Referring to Sections 14 to 16 on the report on 2.2.2, the report states that the environment was peaceful and political players moved freely and campaigned for their candidates.  What the report does not bring to light is the loss of life and human right violations that was also witnessed during these elections.

May I also mention that the report was also given an opportunity maybe to highlight these kinds of human rights violations.  The opposition parties were also being attacked, people being killed during rallies.  I can mention of Mboneli Ncube…

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Karenyi, I have with me the report and I would like to request you to stick to what was written in the report.  Thank you.

HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I thought maybe I was now trying to say they mentioned the issue of the human rights but they left out some of these issues.  As you have guided me, I will not mention names and I will only concentrate on the issue of the report of the NPRC.  The human rights violations that were not documented in this report do not speak on the efforts to ensure justice of these victims, in line with the constitutional provision, promoting transitional justice and measures.

On monitoring and evaluation, an argument might touch on the Commission’s monitoring and evaluation mechanisms, emphasising on how they align with the Constitution on the constitutional obligation to assess the impact of their interventions, track progress and ensure accountability in achieving reconciliation goals.  Part of the missions’ mandate as highlighted on page 1, is compliance handling and investigations. The report mentioned some of the complaints that were raised on how these were handled by the Commission.

On page 7 of the report on 2.1.4, it speaks on the Commission’s engagement with the stakeholders as required by the Constitution, highlighting on this report and it speaks on pages 31 to 34 about the socio-economic challenges.  The Commission’s key findings as reported also highlighted that there are part of the countries where there is marginalisation of the minority groups, especially in Kariba.  They mention poor road infrastructure and how this is also affecting school children as noted in Chief Matibe’s area where some students have to travel long distances to schools. Lack of resources such as Wifi to help these children as required by the new curriculum, there is no conducive learning environment in some of these satellite schools. All these observations were made, but that is not in the report. What is not in their report are recommendations to the responsible ministries.

      The Commission does not speak on how the ministries are expected to resolve these issues. There is also no transparency on how these areas are being assisted to help these children to make sure that we also increase their educational facilities. The report does not disclose if the responsible ministries are aware of these conditions and if anything is being done to help to improve people’s living, especially in those minority areas and minority groups.

         HON. J. TSHUMA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Tshuma?

HON. J. TSHUMA: My point of order is that the Hon. Member  should be directed to stick to the report that we are talking about. It looks like she wants to put in new issues that I think she must actually move a motion about that. If she wants to bring issues that she discovered, it is still okay and it is good, but let it be done through her bringing a separate motion. Today, let us debate the report that is before us.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Karenyi, please proceed.

HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will go to the issue of recommendation. On drug and substance abuse, I recommend that the education and awareness must be done to the youth and also that the Government must also have programmes like cash transfers to make sure that we help these young girls and boys so that they also have something to do in order to keep them busy. I also propose that as Government, we must make sure that we create jobs so that we allow these children to look after themselves.

On early child marriages, I propose that the Government must also engage on programmes to make sure that they provide safe houses, especially for the young girls and to make sure that these young girls are also having an opportunity to go back to school and have some education on reproductive health. On the issue of human rights and transitional justice, I propose that we make sure that the police would also arrest these perpetrators and investigate thoroughly that those perpetrators are brought to book.

On marginalisation, the Government must provide a budget to build schools in Kariba especially in Chief Matibe’s area so that we also help our children to have good education. On elections, I propose that we must have electoral reforms so that we also have the following:

• A clean voter roll so that we do not go to the issue of conflict especially when we go for the elections.
• I propose for equal coverage on the issue of media to have equal access to media so that every party is given an opportunity that will also reduce the issue of conflict.
• I propose that we must have electoral reforms like having some reforms on the issue of assisted voters, to have even a cut off to say like someone who is going to be assisted must be like someone who has got a disability or someone who is older rather than to have command voting,
• I propose that we must have clear mechanisms to address electoral disputes,
• I propose that we must have an electoral code of conduct to make sure that we avoid political violence, especially during our election because at the moment, ZEC says they have no powers to investigate. So we must also give them power to make sure they also investigate this kind of violence.
• I propose a multi-party liaison Committee that must be very effective because if you allow parties to meet, they can also share ideas that will also reduce the issue of conflict. They should be instituted throughout the electoral cycle, and not to just have them during the elections.

On our reconciliation Madam Speaker, I propose that the Government must have programmes of national healing. I remember from 2010 to 2013, there was JOMIC, which was also promoting peace and I remember very well that parties were working hand in hand and it also helped during those elections. The Commission must also engage all victims of political violence and to compensate the victims to allow the healing.

Finally, I propose that on traditional leaders, we must have our clear policy so that our traditional leaders must not be used by political players. Thank you.

HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.

HON. M. NDLOVU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10^th April, 2024.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I move that all other Orders of the Day, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 11 has been disposed of.

HON. M. NDLOVU: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 147^th ASSEMBLY

OF THE IPU AND RELATED MEETINGS HELD IN ANGOLA

Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 147th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings.

Question again proposed.

       HON. TOBAIWA:  Thank you very much Madam Speaker for letting me add my voice to this debate on the report that was tabled in this august House by Hon. Karikoga. Firstly, I would like to congratulate Dr. Tulia Ackson from Tanzania for her new role as the President of the IPU. As Zimbabwe, we wish her the best and fruitful term.  

       Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to also congratulate Advocate Mudenda for the recognition of a wonderful job he did as a member of the IPU Executive Committee and the certificate he was awarded in that regard.  Now, that your term expired last year, my hope is that you will now use the experience that you gained together with your international experience, to lead by example here back home and usher a new democratic way of doing things that will see Parliament becoming an institution that the public has faith in and also represent the welfare of Members of Parliament and their privileges.

        Madam Speaker Ma’am, the IPU adopted the Luanda Declaration on Parliamentary Action to peace and justice, strong institutions at their disposal, which requires that with all avenues at their disposal, Parliament should promote human rights, transparency and accountability. It is in this regard that as Parliament of Zimbabwe, we are challenged.  We need to lead in the reforms that will guarantee the respect of all human rights starting with ourselves. This august House should be a reflection of our efforts.

       Madam Speaker, the Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Discrimination Against Women and its optional protocol handbook was launched.  I hope it will go a long way in changing how we conduct business and effort towards the elimination of all forms of discrimination and abuse of women to be realised in that regard.  I hope that it will also mean that this Parliament will also have a better way to deal with women during conflicts.

Madam Speaker, I also want to touch on the youth participation in the National Parliament in 2023 which was launched and will pave way for the youth in Parliament.  I hope this will also encourage others in the House, not to fear the presence of the young people in the lower House.         We all know we do not want such progress defeating such endeavors that saw a number of youthful Members of Parliament after the August 2023 elections, and that was progress in the right direction.  Madam Speaker, I urge that we move with speed in enhancing public engagement and encourage the IPU.  We need to quickly work around establishing Constituency Information Centres.

       As I conclude, I remain grateful to the Parliament of Zimbabwe as a member of the Inter Parliamentary Union (IPU).

      HON. KARIKOGA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. As the mover of the motion, I want to thank Hon. Tobaiwa for her contribution in the debate of this report.  

I move that the motion be adopted.

      Motion that this House takes note of the Report of the delegation to the 147^th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings held from 23^rd to 27^th October, 2023 in Luanda Angola, put and agreed to.

      On the motion of HON. KAMBUZUMA, seconded by HON. HAMAUSWA, the House adjourned at Six Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 4 APRIL 2024 VOL 50 NO 42

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 4^th April, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE ACTING SPEAKER

PETITION RECEIVED FROM TATSIGIRWA MUSIMWA

                THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MACHINGURA): I have to inform the House that Parliament received a petition from Tatsigirwa Musimwa, requesting Parliament to call for a referendum and amend the Constitution and the Electoral Law in order to abolish partisan politics in Zimbabwe.  The petition was deemed inadmissible and the petitioner was advised accordingly. 

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

          HON. KAMBUZUMA: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir.  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until all the other Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

          HON. J. SITHOLE:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2023

          Eighth Order read:  Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the year 2023.

          Question again proposed.

          HON. KANUPULA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Allow me to first congratulate the Peace and Reconciliation Commission for having produced audited financial statements which have met the procedures set by the Auditor-General. Secondly, I acknowledge the role the Commission is playing in bringing peace and attempting to deal with legislation that is conflicting and resolving land related conflicts.  The report shows that political conflicts are still high in the country constituting 47%.  Understandably, this was a time when both Parliamentary and Presidential elections were happening.  Capacitating POLAD will go a long way in ensuring and fostering co-existence and all-inclusive politics.

          On land related conflicts handled by the Commission, it is evident that still in Manicaland and Mashonaland East, land issues remain.  It is a fact that the land reform, land acquisitions, still have some issues pending especially in peri-urban Harare, peri urban Mashonaland East and Gimboki in Manicaland.  Availing equal opportunities to the youths will assist greatly in resolving these conflicts involving illegal parceling of land and violent clashes on farms among many other issues.

          In conclusion, I acknowledge the need to ensure that the land laws and the mining laws are harmonised to ensure that the ambiguity sometimes presented by some sections are resolved.  A miner cannot just come and peg on any farm because he or she has a permit from the Ministry of Mines.  Agriculture is equally important.  But before issuing some permits, the Ministry of Lands must be consulted and the farmer must be heard.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I am convinced in the Second Republic that Zimbabwe is on the right path to reduce political violence, and together we can.  I thank you.

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank you for according me this opportunity to debate. I want to thank the Commission. When first it was installed, we thought it was political, but the Commission is looking at various things. Firstly, I want to thank the Government for the Budget allocation for it to be able to do its work. It is very important in the lives of the people of Zimbabwe so that we unite. If we look at the issues that they are tackling, those of boundaries in different areas, I think in the times that we are living, the Commission is going to be busy. The Commission is visiting rural areas, setting up Committees which are uniting people when they face challenges.

When it comes to politics, the issues that were reported are very few, which means that our things are moving smoothly. What the Commission is doing is that during awareness times, people should be educated on how to vote after registering, and that people should vote for their party of choice freely. They also go further to ensure that a winner wins fairly. In other countries, people fight after elections because they would say the elections have been rigged. It is different in our case in this country. Those who cannot make it, is because they did not campaign well. For example, the 2023 elections, people who were not satisfied about the results were very few. Our courts were seized with few cases because there was awareness…

HON. MAMBIRIPIRI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

HON. MAMBIRIPIRI:  Mr. Speaker Sir, it is common cause that when a report is presented and people are asked to debate it, they debate contents of that report. What the Hon. Member is reporting is not in the report at all. The report does not discuss elections, who won, who complained or whether there were any misgivings around the elections. It simply discusses peace and reconciliation and their efforts. The Member must stand guided. I thank you.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think if you say, must discuss peace and reconciliation, I think the elements that he is talking about contribute to peace. Hon. Member you can proceed.

*HON. MAPIKI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for protecting me. I was saying, at first when the Commission was put in place, we thought that it was only political, but after reading and seeing its works, we see that it touches on a number of issues including political issues. What I am talking about is also included in the report. I encourage all of us to read the report. If the Commission continues in this trajectory, I think it should be given a lot of money because such Commissions face challenges that if they run out of funds, those countries which are against our unity will influence to separate people because of their tribes of Hutus or Tutsis.

Here in Zimbabwe, I think the Commission should be given enough funds because the colonisers, if we give them a chance, they can use such Commissions to separate us if they give them money. I want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe because this Commission is independent, and many of their reports on political violence are very few. If you look at areas like Masvingo, they are mainly looking on areas of drug abuse.

This Commission should also educate Committees that they have set up in different areas that people should be able to resolve their conflicts without the interference of outsiders. The Commission is not only talking about tribalism or racism, but is also referring to families if they are at loggerheads. I thank you.

HON. G. K. HLATYWAYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for allowing me this opportunity to contribute to this very important discussion that is before the House. Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to register my utmost disappointment with the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission’s Report presented before this Honourable House for the reasons that I will submit. I pose it that the NPRC was the least effective of the Chapter 12 institutions supporting democracy, and yet perhaps the most important and relevant, given the ubiquitous nature of violence and conflict in our country.

First, the foreword by the Acting Chairperson makes reference to a peaceful election, and does not acknowledge what political scientists have termed, ‘the harvest of fear’, where known perpetrators for violence were intimidating citizens making reference to past electoral violence. The report also conveniently misses the role of shadowy security organisations such as FAZ that intimidated …

HON. MUTOKONYI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

HON. MUTOKONYI:  Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member poses that there is ubiquitous violence in Zimbabwe. I do not think that is the fact. There is no violence, there is no ubiquitous violence in Zimbabwe. So the Hon. Member should speak facts and not assumptions. Thank you [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. Hon. Member, let the Hon. Member be heard in silence. When your turn to debate comes, then you can tell us the correct position.

HON. G. HLATYWAYO:  Thank you for the protection Mr. Speaker Sir.  The report also conveniently misses the role of shadow security organisations such as FAZ that intimidated citizens …

          HON. MUGWADI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  Mr. Speaker, it will be a serious attempt to undermine the credibility of this House if we allow the Hon. Member to proceed, to disassociate herself with the truth.  In fact, choosing to have an adversarial relationship with the truth by saying that this country has a shadow security organisation. The security organs of this country are defined properly in the statutes and the Constitution of this republic.  We do not have shadow security organisations.  If I were allowed to go further Mr. Speaker, without taking her, I am a Member of FAZ myself which is an affiliate but I am not a shadow security organ. 

          Mr. Speaker, I reiterate, I am a free and voluntary member of an organisation called FAZ – [AN HON. MEMBER:  Mr. Speaker, that is not a point of order.] –

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, can you put on your mic, I did not get the last words that you said.     

          HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for allowing me to reiterate my last point.  I think the credibility of this House would have been seriously undermined if she proceeds by continuously electing to disassociate and have an adversarial relationship with facts.  Like I said, I am a voluntary member of friends and affiliates to – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]- but being a member of that organisation called FAZ, I am not a member of any shadow security organisation and so are many people outside there.  The security organs of this country Mr. Speaker Sir, are defined. I reiterate, they are defined properly, constitutionally and statutorily.  I reiterate once again, in fact, the most interesting thing is that – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections]–

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, there is only one Chair in this House.  Can you proceed. 

          HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you very much Hon. Speaker to the extent that I am not in a hurry, I may just need to make this very clear as long as the podium is till mine.  I will reiterate my point in summary that – [HON. MEMBERS:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.]-

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, please do not stand up for points of order when someone is debating on a point of order.  Can you wind up Hon. Member?

          HON. MUGWADI:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, you are not easily hurried especially by the fewest in the House of the majority.  I reiterate my point very peacefully and without being rushed that the security organs in this country are properly defined by the constitutional provisions of this Republic and the statutes.  FAZ is not one of them unless the Hon. Member debating is able to point to us a statutory or constitutional provision creating the shadow so called security organisation that she is talking about, if she cannot, the Hon. Member must be shamed for electing to have an adversarial relationship with them.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, please proceed with your debate but do not create new structures in this room.  Stick to the report. 

          HON. HLATYWAYO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I am sticking to the report and what I am making reference to are issues that are raised in the report.  The particular issue that I was referring to is actually alluded to by the various international observer missions.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, is that in the report? Please stick to the report.

          HON. HLATYWAYO:  Thank you Hon. Speaker, peace is much more than just the absence of violence.  But the attitudes, institutions and structures that create and sustain peaceful societies, as experts in conflict management and resolution, the Commission – [AN HON. MEMBER: Hon. Mutseyami is taking videos]-

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Mutseyami, are you taking a video of what we are saying?  Can you be honourable and give it to the Serjeant-at-Arms, the video that you are taking. 

          +HON. MUTSEYAMI:  Good afternoon Hon. Speaker.  My phone is here and it does not have any videos. 

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  It is not permissible to take a video. 

          HON. MUTSEYAMI:  In terms of our Green Book hapana mutemo unondirambidza kutora video.

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  It is not permissible to take a video.  Serjeant-at- Arms, if you can direct Hon. Mutseyami somewhere so that we can continue with the debates.

Hon. Mutseyami handed over the phone to the Serjeant-at-Arms. 

          HON. HLATYWAYO:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  The point that I was making is that the Commission ought to have interrogated much more deeply, the issue of negative peace and positive peace to ascertain whether the 2023 elections were peaceful or not.  On page 9, the report applauds traditional leaders for promoting peace and fail to acknowledge the fact that traditional leaders were often abused and reduced to political commissars of the ruling party.  A case in point was the much publicised Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira’s contravention of Section 281 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe by participating in partisan politics and openly declaring allegiance to the ruling party.  He further went on to disregard a High Court order that had rebuked him for his conduct and directed him to withdraw his statements.  Various civil society organisations including New Zimbabwe Trust and Zimbabwe Peace Society also reported the partisan distribution of Government inputs and food aid by some traditional leaders.

  On page 16 of the report, the Commission suggests that Zimbabwe had free campaigns.  It is common knowledge that CCC had more than 140 rallies that were banned and violently disrupted.

I also wish to place it on record that the independence of this sensitive Commission was massively undermined by the presence of known ruling party activists such as the Spokesperson of the NPRC, Obert Gutu who openly supported ZANU PF. This seriously affected the credibility of the Commission and its standing in the public eye. The Commission also never publicly denounced perpetrators of violence despite reports that were made by stakeholders.

The Commission has failed to deal with past hurts including Gukurahundi where the CCJP/Legal Resource Foundation seminal publication “Breaking the Silence: Building True Peace -A Report on the Disturbances in Matabeleland and the Midlands 1980 to 1986” estimates that 20 000 people were killed. Other past violent epochs include the 2008 post-election violence where civil society organisations reported that more than 500 opposition activists were brutally murdered in cold blood. It is disappointing to note that whilst Section 252 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe gives full mandate to the NPRC to ensure post-conflict justice, national healing and reconciliation, NPRC’s constitutional mandate was even hijacked by some Government departments as in the case of the Chiefs’ initiative in Matabeleland.

The Commission had only 10 years since 2013, to conduct its business in line with the Constitution, and yet the Enabling Act was only enacted in 2018, five years later. Most of its time was spent on administrative issues, setting up offices, hiring staff, training Commissioners and staff and little time was spent on the core mandate of the Commission as provided for in Section 252 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. Further, the Commissioners were constantly changed and therefore affected the effectiveness of the Commission.

Lack of adequate resources was also an inhibiting factor. The Peace Committees that were created were not adequately funded to conduct their work at community level

The Commission failed to undertake any activities that were aimed at establishing the truth of what happened in past and present conflicts. In South Africa and Sierra Leone, we saw public hearings under their Truth and Reconciliation Commissions being conducted, and yet no public hearings or public processes were conducted for the purposes of truth seeking in our case.

1. No reparations were made to the victims of past human rights abuses.
2. The Commission also failed to establish guarantees for non-recurrence through deliberately ensuring the existence of strong and independent institutions. Political violence also continues to ravage society with impunity
3. Several Civil Society Organisations reported cases of abductions and political violence, and yet these were never investigated.

In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission has been a major disappointment and a white elephant as it has failed to discharge its post-conflict justice, national healing and reconciliation role as directed by the Constitution of Zimbabwe for the reasons I have outlined.

Going Forward, Zimbabwe is in an urgent need of a genuinely independent National Peace and Reconciliation Commission and strong political will to deal with past hurts through:

1. Truth telling to establish what happened
2. Justice (both restorative and retributive)
3. Reparations to victims/ survivors (individual and community levels)
4. Guarantees for non-recurrence and commitment to a ‘Never Again” mentality

Transitional justice is central to the development of any nation that has undergone a violent past. The Commission missed an opportunity to put to rest the scourge of violence and establish a solid foundation for a peaceful society!

HON. KANGAUSARU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this debate on the NPRC 2023 Annual Report presented to this august House on the motion of the Hon. Minister Ziyambi Ziyambi. I want to pay particular attention on the need for more comprehensive and gender inclusive dialogue with marginalised communities. Whilst the report acknowledges the importance of such dialogues, I commend the Commission on all efforts they have made on this aspect. However, I believe there is a need to delve deeper to ensure a truly holistic approach to national healing.

My primary concern lies in the potential gender bias within the report. The experience of women and persons with disability within the marginalised communities are often overlooked. We must actively seek out their narrative and ensure their voices are heard loud and clear in the reconciliation process. Research by UN Women emphasises the importance of gender sensitivity approach to peacebuilding. When women are included in the dialogue, peace agreements tend to be more sustainable.

Moreover, women often play a crucial role in the communities together during the conflict. Their perspectives are invaluable to the healing process. The NPRC, in my view, should consider implementing the following few strategies;

• Training for facilitators ensuring officers possess the skills, competence and knowledge to conduct gender sensitivity dialogue. This include unconscious biased training and creating a safe space for all participants to share the experiences;
• Targeted outreaches; proactively reach out to women groups and disability groups within marginalised communities. Utilisation of female facilitators where appropriate and encourage participation; and
• Utilisation of local languages; conducting dialogue in the local languages spoken by marginalised communities to overcome language barriers and ensure a wider participation.

Achieving national peace and reconciliation necessitates a

comprehensive approach that incorporates the voice of all Zimbabweans, particularly those from marginalised communities. By prioritising gender inclusivity in these dialogues, the NPRC can ensure a more just, equitable and lasting peace for our nation. I argue the Commission to revisit its approach and integrate aforementioned strategies. Let us work together to ensure that the narratives of all Zimbabweans, regardless of gender or background, form the cornerstone of our national healing journey.

          The NPRC is one of those Independent Commissions supporting democracy. The establishment of this Commission was the realisation of the social and political will and aspirations of the Zimbabwean to transition from a conflictual past to a harmonious future. I would want to acknowledge that the work of the NPRC in the year 2023 as recorded in its 2023 Annual Report, I am very pleased that the NPRC’s work in 2023 was anchored on all its encompassed themes; conflict prevention.

          I want to applaud the Commission on its overwhelming strides in resolving 104 reported conflict cases out of 138 cases. Most of these conflicts have been instigated by early child marriages and abuse. Such efforts show the commitment of the Commission towards peaceful community committed to development. I want to further applaud the Commission that they also have included the mitigation of drug abuse driven by conflicts; human and wildlife conflicts, partnership with schools, ZPCS, traditional leaders, churches and community leaders will go a long way in the healing process of our nation.

          May I conclude by acknowledging that according to Section 252 of our Constitution, amended 2013, the NPRC was given a lifespan of 10 years to have fulfilled its mandate. It goes without saying that the mandate of the Commission will be very crucial and critical, especially at a point when as a country we are focused on re-engaging and engaging. It is therefore, very crucial that our Government reconsiders the existence of the NPRC beyond its 10-year lifespan. It is my humble submission that like any other Chapter 12 – Independent Commission, the NPRC should exist for life as to ensure sustainable peace by resolving past, present and future potential conflict. I thank you.

          HON. DR. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the report. Firstly, I would want to…

          *HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order. My point of order regards our debating ratio. Is it now 1:1 or 1:2?

          THE ACTING SPEAKER: No, the ratio is 2:1. When we finish this debate, you can check if it was not 2:1.

          HON. DR. HAMAUSWA: I would want to start by acknowledging that Zimbabwe is actually at crossroads. If you see the anger and exchange of words that emerged from this debate, it shows as a nation we really need to find each other as recommended by the NPRC. As the reason why the NPRC was actually established, if you see Hon. Members could not even allow each other to air their views which are the fundamental pillars of reconciliation and re-integration. You would find that if we need lasting peace, we must be able to allow even the victims to share their experiences, to pour out and the victors should allow a platform for the victims to actually cry out and lead to a point where we can talk to each other…

          HON. S. ZIYAMBI: I think the Hon. Member should debate what is in the NPRC report.

          HON. DR. HAMAUSWA:  I will reiterate that the behaviour that we show here actually shows that we need to call for the extension of the tenure of the NPRC until a point whereby we can sit side by side as different political players and say what kind of Zimbabwe we want. Until we reach that point, we have no peace. Therefore, I would want to start with the conclusion that I was going to make that we have noted in the report that the tenure of NPRC expired in 2023.

Therefore, because of the existence of seizures which actually cause even future threats to our stability, we need to call for the extension of the tenure of the NPRC. But, what is the kind of peace infrastructure that we need as Zimbabweans? You find out Mr. Speaker, that when you check in the NPRC report, we acknowledge and applaud them on the concept of stakeholder consultation including even engaging Africa University for training its staff. It is something that we should give a pam-pam to NPRC.

However, there is a big segment which was left behind by the NPRC in their consultations. They did not consider political parties seriously. I would want to acknowledge the call by one of the speakers who spoke before me who said they need to strengthen POLAD, however I have a different view. We have a peace infrastructure that has worked before. During the GNU, we had an organ on National Healing and Reconciliation which actually worked well. Therefore, for NPRC to work, there is need to have a blend of the Commission and another platform where political parties that, especially those with members in Parliament, can actually be able to sit down and say what kind of Zimbabwe we want and be able to include other stakeholders.

You see in the report that NPRC received 105 reports in 2013 and this increased the log to 138 and 104 were successfully resolved. However, 47% of complaints were related to political conflicts, and these conflicts happened in Masvingo Province which was at the top with 27%. So if you see 47% of the reports going to NPRC and being political conflicts, it is therefore cause for a genuine and legitimate platform for political parties to actually sit down and discuss the kind of Zimbabwe which is good for everyone.  In the report we also noted that the NPRC is now departing from function (d) as outlined in the Constitution, which defines the functions of the NPRC.  These call for the NPRC to create a platform for national dialogue, especially for political parties.  Therefore, without that, we are not going to have lasting peace in this country.  If you check and take a cue from the international politics, the reason why the UN survived is because the bigger elements were involved.  The bigger political players were involved.  If political players are not taking part, we are not going to see the Commission doing its work. 

There is an issue which was raised in the report by the Commission, that of early child marriages which is a major threat to the future of our young people in this country. Matabeleland South received the major complaints of teen marriages.  This is causing school drop outs and it was reported that those who were accused of impregnating the teens in Matabeleland South chose to run away to South Africa.  The two reasons are that they are running away from responsibility while others will be running away to look for work so they are able to meet the new responsibility as teen parents.  This issue needs to be addressed because in the report it says some parents are actually happy to have their children being married even at an age lower than that required by the law.  They do not report the issues to the police nor do they report to the traditional leaders.  These are some of the issues which need to be addressed. 

          I also support the issue raised that during the elections, we have seen the NPRC doing some interventions.  They promoted peace through some peace campaigns.  They also engaged artists and it is a good initiative.  However, we have also seen other artists’ work being banned on national television.  It is also high time that the NPRC, when they are including artists, should be all-inclusive because they have actually noted the role played by artists to promote peace and reconciliation in this country.  Therefore, I urge NPRC in future, if we are going to extend its tenure, when they are doing their reports on elections or interventions on elections to focus on preventive measures and monitoring the post-election period. 

However, they are missing issues which are critical in the report.  There is continued dispute of elections in Zimbabwe.  It is something that is going to be addressed by the platform we are calling for.  Political parties should have a platform to meet together.  We cannot have a situation where election after election, we have continued disputes of elections.  This is the issue which we need to confront as a people.  World over, in terms of reconciliation, the starting point is truth and we need to tell each other the truth. 

We need to say we have all messed up in this country.  We are actually in a fractured country whereby we may be heading to a serious situation.  We give thanks to our professional military because when there was ‘Restore Legacy’, we did not have a fully-fledged military rule, but we managed to go back to the civilian rule.  However, if these issues are not resolved, the moment we are going to have a second ‘Restore Legacy’, we might not be able to speak in this House.  Therefore, we need to genuinely ensure that we reach consensus and we are open to each other…

          HON. MATANGIRA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think you can see that the peace and reconciliation we are talking about is just lip service because now he is talking of ‘Restore Order’, when we are debating peace and reconciliation.  I think he should withdraw his statement.

          HON. HAMAUSWA:  Some Hon. Members have not read the full report.  This report is not very long to those who have energy to read.  If they can read, we cannot have a situation where when discussing…

          HON. MALINGANISOA:   On a point of order.  The Hon Member is

inciting violence in a manner that subverts the Constitution.  What

legacy is it that needs to be restored?  The Hon. Member must withdraw

that statement.

          HON. HAMAUSWA:  In the report and in the recommendation,

they gave legislative recommendations, and one of the recommendations

which is given is to amend the Communal Land Tenure Act which is

part of restoring legacy.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon Member, can you repeat

what you said.

          HON. HAMAUSWA:  What I said is firstly, I acknowledged

the professionalism by our security sector.  Secondly, I said if we do not

address the issues raised in this report, and done by the Commission, we

may actually have something that is worse than what we have. That is what I said and to prevent that Mr. Speaker Sir, we need an open discussion. I need – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, you are not addressing other Members, you are addressing the Chair.

HON. HAMAUSWA: Peace and Reconciliation. This is what I am saying Mr. Speaker Sir. We must be allowed to debate…

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, it is the pessimism that you are expressing which other Members think it is not proper. Please stick to the report.

HON. MAPFUMO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think even the Hansard can confirm that he did insinuate that there will be a second restore legacy. May he withdraw that statement?

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, can you please withdraw and move on.

HON. HAMAUSWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is unfortunate that I am being forced to withdraw. I am giving a scenario mapping which is done by the NPRC. They did scenarios, yes, they taught – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are only left with five minutes. If you continue the way you are doing, then you are not going to debate anything.

HON. HAMAUSWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I understand your situation. We are in a fractured nation and you are not free yourself Mr. Speaker Sir, because you are being forced by these people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, order. Can you please withdraw what you have just said to the Chair.

HON. HAMAUSWA: I withdraw Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me conclude by…

THE ACTING SPEAKER: What are you withdrawing? Can you please state what you are withdrawing?

HON. HAMAUSWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am withdrawing that I included you from the people who are not free in this country, that I said you are not free.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please sit down. I will not allow you to debate any further.

An Hon. Member having stood up on a point of order.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: There is no point of order. Please sit down. The Member who was debating is no longer debating. So, what is your point of order?

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I witnessed a trend that when this side is debating, there is constant disturbance but when the other side is debating, this side is very professional. We remain quiet. My plea Mr. Speaker Sir, is to ask for stability. There should be order. We do not want unnecessary points of order which are intended to disturb or disrupt someone’s debate.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: It is very important that when we are debating, every Member should be heard in silence.

*HON. MUGWADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mine is a very small issue. I think the MPs should go back to the electorate after they have been voted into power. They are addressing us but we are not part of their constituents. We are representing other people.

*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I do not have much to say because I respect what the others have said, those who said the truth. I think Hon. Member, you have heard that –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–

*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I have just mentioned that an Hon. Member should be heard in silence but look at what you are now doing. Hon. Matangira has just started his debate and you are now interrupting. Let us avoid these interruptions. Hon. Matangira, please proceed.

HON. MATANGIRA: Mr. Speaker Sir, this NPRC report has not left anyone behind. It never indicated who is the best or the least. It mentioned everything to do with the whole country, just like a friend mentioning to their relatives to live in peace. That is why we have different totems for people to marry. We have democracy which says if we do not have opposition, then the Government is not strong. The problem only comes when we say these two things are related. For NPR, it came out openly to say we have limited funds and as MPs, let us kindly support them for progress.

The problem which I mentioned before is on the issue to do with shoes and shoe brush to polish the shoe. The brush does helps shoes to shine but when the brush wants to become the shoe now, that is when we start to have problems. People start to have grudges…

 *HON. MAMBIRIPIRI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member is mentioning issues to do with shoes and brushes which are not part of the report under debate.

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the Member is just giving examples. These are just practical examples. You can proceed Hon. Matangira.

HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying shoes and a brush, a shoe is only won but a brush is there to clean the shoes. Democracy says the ruling party, just like what people were mentioning, does not work well if there is no  brush that polishes it well. We do not have two teams which will go and have soccer match and avoid saying the referee was corrupt or so and so went to a traditional healer. The elections which happened recently, it was mentioned to an extent that I was even shocked to say these elections, can they come out clear without people shouting at each other?

In Mashonaland Central, we used to walk together with Opposition way back when the CCC was still vibrant before the intervention by Hon. Tshabangu. There was no violence or any negative things which happened, except for young people who were breaking the law. When we go on to the issue which was mentioned by the last Hon. Member, when he said land tenure which is being spoken about in the rural areas, way back, how did people used to live? Those brushes never tend to become shoes in rural areas. Now we come like pythons, exchanging colours to say let us kindly take title deeds, let us have security tenure – no, no.

As headmen and leaders, they have constitutional laws…

HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Matangira is debating well but the problem comes when he refers to people to shoes and brushes. Those are not good words. How can you refer to somebody as a brush? Mr. Speaker Sir, can he withdraw. It looks like he is part of the programmes that he might be having a different mindset. Can he kindly withdraw.

*THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, have you referred to someone as a brush?

*HON. MATANGIRA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I used to stay with the Hon. Member in Chipinge. So, if I mentioned to say, did you hear the hyena crying and if he did not…

THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, if you did not mention anything to do with brush – Hon. Mutseyami, we will check with the Hansard as to what he exactly said and report to this House. Can you proceed Hon. Matangira.

          *HON. MATANGIRA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I am only saying in this august House as we enter here, let us all come together.  We must not mention anything to do with our political parties. Let us set aside our political differences. We have one President, we have one Government as a nation. We will then say let us all try to build the whole nation, regardless of our political affiliations.  Those from the right side, they go and search for support from the left to come and join them, even those within the left side, they want to invite people from the opposite side.  Let us kindly unite as the report implies that it is National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.  Let us take it with both hands.  If we identify any mistakes, we have to invite each other and try to work together. 

          The former speaker, mentioned something to do with JOMIC, he said there used to be a Government of National Unity ….

          HON. BAJILA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker.  The previous speaker Hon. Hamauswa made reference to the organ on National Healing and Reconciliation not on JOMIC.  May Hon. Matangira stick to disagreeing with Hon. Hamauswa on the basis of things that Hon. Hamauswa said not what Hon. Matangira thinks he should have said. 

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Can you proceed Hon. and quote properly. 

          *HON. MATANGIRA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, but what Hon. Bajila does not know is that, I being the name Matangira, I am the headman of Hon. Hamauswa.  Hon. Hamauswa mentioned things to do with Government of National Unity, which came after we had gone to the Constitution.  He was not in politics yet.  Then we used to have JOMIC that which Hon. Hamauswa mentioned.  Anywhere, there is no problem, let me proceed.  Honestly, national dialogue is what I mentioned, we must continue ……

          HON. HAMAUSWA:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Hon. Speaker, you have made a ruling.  Hon. Matangira then repeated again false accusations that I referred to JOMIC and even JOMIC was there, but I did not refer to it.  We need to respect the Chair, you told me to sit down, I did sit down, you told me to withdraw, I did withdraw. I tried though not to your satisfaction.  Hon. Matangira must respect the Chair. 

          *THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Matangira, you do not have to include what was not mentioned by others.  Kindly be on point.

          *HON. MATANGIRA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I once heard what happened in my rural area.  I cannot say anything anymore.  Let me conclude by saying this Parliament is respected in the whole nation.  Let us all try to respect Parliament, respect ourselves, and everything will go on well.  There is no opposition, there is no ruling party.  We are all in here.  We all know that these are from this side and these are from Mazhira, those are the Chiefs, we then respect each other accordingly so that we do everything in peace.  We have only one President, His Excellency Hon. Dr. Mnangagwa.  We are here to represent people not just to stand up to say I can shout and I can do anything for people to fight.  I thank you. 

          HON. KAMBUZUMA:  I move that the debate do now adjourn. 

          HON. HAMAUSWA: I second.

          Motion put and agree to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024.

MOTION

      LAW FOR THE PROVISION OF LAND TENURE SECURITY

          Nineth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need to enact a law providing security of tenure to all the land, including communal land.

          Question again proposed. 

          HON. S. MOYO: Thank you for this opportunity to air my input on land tenure.  This motion was moved by Hon.  C. Hlatywayo appealing to the Government on amendment of the Communal Land Act [Chapter 20:04]. As mentioned by Hon. Hlatywayo on his motion that our Communal Land Act does not grant title deeds to the rural community folks, I really appreciate the struggle by our fathers who fought for our country to be independent. Meaning, we have all our freedom including our rural folks without any discrimination. Hence the limitation of title deeds to our rural community is against development in line with the national objective of our Constitution.

 Referring to the cases of Masvingo, Bhuka area where over 300 people were deemed illegal settlers and removed from their homes because they have no title deeds, same as Chilonga area, title deeds protect the rural population which has little knowledge of statutes from any rural land barons. Urban areas are slowly running out of residential areas to accommodate residents living in the rural areas at a disadvantage as the Ministry of Lands uproots rural population under the guise of making way for urban development and leaving rural populations at a great disadvantage. It is the prerogative of Government to protect these rural folks by amending the Communal Land Act.  It is important to note that the rural population needs the government's full protection from those who deal in unscrupulous land deals. Hence giving property rights to rural populations will put an end to land barons.

People in communal area also have the right to be treated the same way as landlords in urban areas. Urban Councils Act entitles the urban land-owners to have tittle deeds but none on Rural Communal Land Act. Rural folk fail to access loans for agro-development because they have no title deeds retarding their full potential in agro-business. Title deeds will ensure that they can access resources from financial institutions and help improve Zimbabwe's GDP. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is also need to align all legislative provisions governing land issues in Zimbabwe so that the rural population is duly safeguarded from abuse and manipulation.  

Traditional leaders are entitled to allocate land, so is the Ministry of Lands and the RDC. But the three do not sit and decide on said allocation together. This leads to conflict. I will give an example of Schweppes Company in Matabeleland South. Ministry of Lands has given land to this company without consulting the traditional leadership and the community. This has led to a war between the company and the community.  The communal land has been privy to traditional leaders only and this has been causing conflict between traditional leaders, rural districts and Ministry of Lands.  Mr. Speaker Sir, providing title deeds to communal land-owners in Zimbabwe is important for several reasons:

1. Security of Land Tenure: Title deeds provide legal recognition and security of land tenure to communal land-owners. It gives them formal ownership rights and protects them from land disputes, encroachment, or forced evictions. With secure land tenure, communal land-owners can invest in their land, improve productivity, and plan for the long term.
2. Economic Development: Title deeds enable communal land-owners to use their land as collateral for accessing credit and financing. With formal ownership, they can engage in agricultural activities, start businesses, or invest in infrastructure development. This can stimulate economic growth, create employment opportunities, and contribute to poverty reduction.
3. Empowerment and Equity: granting title deeds to communal land-owners promotes social equity and empowerment. It provides marginalised communities, including small-scale farmers and rural residents, with equal access to land resources. This empowers them to participate in economic activities, make decisions about land use, and improve their living conditions.
4. Investment and Productivity: Formalising communal land ownership through title deeds encourages investment in land improvements such as irrigation systems, infrastructure, and technology. With secure ownership rights, communal la-ndowners are more likely to make long-term investments, adopt modern farming practices, and increase agricultural productivity. This can enhance food security and contribute to the overall development of the agricultural sector.
5. Land Administration and Planning: Title deeds facilitate effective land administration and planning. They establish a clear framework for land management, land-use regulations, and spatial planning. This helps the government in implementing land policies, promoting sustainable land use practices, and managing land resources more efficiently.
6. Social Stability and Conflict Resolution: Formalising land ownership through title deeds can contribute to social stability and reduce conflicts over land. Clear property rights and legal recognition discourage land-related disputes and provide a framework for resolving conflicts. This fosters peaceful co-existence and social cohesion within communities.
7. Investor Confidence and Economic Growth: Providing title deeds to communal land-owners enhances investor confidence in the country's land tenure system. It demonstrates a commitment to property rights protection and the rule of law. Investor confidence attracts domestic and foreign investment which can lead to economic growth, job creation, and improved living standards.

It is important for the Government of Zimbabwe to prioritise the issuance of title deeds to communal land-owners to promote inclusive and sustainable development, empower marginalised communities, stimulate economic growth, and ensure social justice. However, it is essential to implement the process in a transparent and fair manner, addressing any potential challenges and ensuring that the rights of all stakeholders are respected.   

          ^*HON. MATANGIRA: I want to applaud the Hon. Member who brought the motion about the issue of tenure and title deeds to this House, Hon. Hlatshwayo. We applaud ‘baba’ –

          *THE ACTING SPEAKER: We do not have fathers and mothers here. We have got only Hon. Members.

          *HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you for redirecting me. We thank Hon. Hlatywayo for bringing such a pertinent topic to this House. When we grew up, if we watched a film on television until it produced inscriptions to say this is ‘The End’, we would remain seated. Mr. Hlatywayo came here and presented this wonderful debate –

          *THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, we said you should refer to another Member as Hon., not Mr. Hlatshwayo. So you are supposed to rephrase and refer to him as Hon. Hlatywayo.

*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you. You did the right thing Hon. Hlatywayo. Looking at 1890, our country of Zimbabwe’s only survival way, we respected our traditional leaders, kings and village heads and they knew the boundaries to their areas of authority. The boundaries for these areas were not changed to date. We still know that the mountain Chemhari has a boundary with Neshangwe, and from Neshangwe going down the stream, it is Mambo Nyashanu’s area. These mountains and natural landmarks are still present to date.

After the liberation struggle, the south of our country, we have traditional leaders like King Lobengula and in the far north we have Mbuya Nehanda, in the east we have Chingaira and in the west we have other traditional leaders who were there, as well as leaders like Karigamombe who were reigning on the eastern side. Due to the different forms of artillery that was present, the war was fought when they refused to be treated as slaves. This was due to the weapons that were prepared during the Berlin Conference in 1894. They were told to go and take the land so that they could exploit it.

In his discussion Hon. Hlatywayo mentioned that there was Land Apportionment Act in 1890 after our ancestors were defeated in the war, and the black majority were driven to the reserves which were deserts. The weather was bad that they were impoverished and could even fail to pay the levies and taxies that were imposed upon them by the white people. They were abused and exploited by the white people. Where there were good soils and the climate was good, the areas were taken by the whites and distributed amongst themselves. They would look for areas where the land was good and where the land seemed to be bad, they would settle the blacks there.

Now, the Zimbabwean children denied that and said we want our land back which was taken during Lobengula and Mbuya Nehanda’s era. The spiritual warfare as we are blacks, as it is in the Bible in the book of Ezekiel wherein it says, the bones were commanded to rise on issues to do with the liberation struggle. Why were people fighting? People never fought for reserve areas, the places where people were taken to. People were taken there against their will. People used to fight for that very place which white people had taken.

The war went on and people went to Botswana, Zambia, Tanganyika and others went to Russia, and the Chinese said we are here to help you with weapons. Countries like Libya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Zambia and Mozambique assisted and then freedom came. People used to fight for the land. Not only land of poor soil structures, no. Why would you want a title for something which is not good, which you were forced to reside at. Why would you want a title on such areas? It is very difficult; you cannot enter such areas. That is why they fought the war. They know what they died for. They said no, no. People from the west came like a python.

What I want to tell you Mr. Speaker is if you look at our country Zimbabwe and the wealth that we have, the chieftainship is different from that of Britain. The chieftainship for us is different from those of the western countries. When freedom came, people who were there said they had fought for this country and that is what our war heroes died for. Some were not properly buried and others were in mass graves, why? Simply because of those black people who were sell outs. You people who have a lot of farms, just sell to us as Government on a willing seller, willing buyer. No one came forward to give us good land for productive agriculture.

It took more than 20 years trying to negotiate to say, please what is your position. Other people used to say only if we knew that people only wanted to come and sit in offices and not go to the farms where we chased away their ancestors, we could have given them. What should we do? They said why can we not look for someone who acts foolish to say let us organise and have a certain political party for the whites –

HON. MUROMBEDZI: The Hon. Member has deviated from the contents of the debate of land tenure. He is not sticking to the debate Hon. Speaker.

*THE ACTING SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Member and there is no point of order.

*HON. MATANGIRA: Some of the issues make me cry. Six people perished from the same family. What is it that they wanted? They wanted the soil. We must not treat each other like this. The history of this country must be mentioned by both political parties and that has made us come to this august House. There is need to talk about the liberation struggle. We could not be here had it not been for those that went to war and never returned – I think there is need for us to respect our liberation struggle.  We would not have been here if it was not for those that went to war and never returned but we are unable to express…

          HON. GWANGWABA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, can the Hon Member stick to one language. 

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Matangira, please stick to one language.

          *HON. MATANGIRA:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, let me stick to my mother language.  To speak in Shona does not necessarily mean we cannot speak in English.  If we praise our ancestral spirits using English songs, it will not end well. We discovered that those whites wanted a Rhodesia Front with whites leading and we said no.  People from the Svosve area said it was like going back into captivity where people were forced to be labourers if we started saying we want to have title deeds of our original place where we used to stay and we were chased away by the whites.  They displaced them to those mountainous areas by the name Romorehoto in Mavhumachena and then they went and took back their land.  The whole nation, people from both areas where they had poor soils went back to their ancestral homes.  Even those people from the Southern and Northern sides also went back to their ancestral homes.  This happened in all the four cardinal points.  Even today as we speak…

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Hon. Member, you are left with only five minutes.

          HON. MATANGIRA:  All of us together with the traditional leaders, agreed that whatever is, should be.  What is being said about title deeds is the worst thing ever because rural areas are our ancestral homes and there is no need for title deeds.  Once title deeds are given, it will be easy to sell off the land and that is tantamount to giving back the land to the whites.  Our traditional leaders keep our land and have the mandate to give land to people in their areas.  They are not land barons.  After all we took back our land and shared amongst ourselves and that is a very good thing.  Vision 2030 is about progressivism.  Let us all come together until 2028, under the leadership of Cde Mnangagwa.  Those who want to engage in agriculture, come and join those who are already doing so.  We cannot allow people to grab our land like what happened during the colonial era.  We do not concur to that at all.  That will not happen and we say no to title deeds for rural land.  I thank you.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING SPEAKER

BLAST AT 1630 HOURS

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  I wish to inform the House that there will be some blasting by Bitumen at 1630 hrs.  I also wish to inform the House that Old Mazowe Road from Westgate roundabout to New Parliament Building will be closed.  Members are advised to use the Good-Hope Road and the detours to boulevard road towards Bindura Road.

HON. MALINGANISO:  Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir.  Profuse gratitude for granting me latitude to add my voice to the conversation occasioned by the motion raised by Hon. Hlatywayo.  Perhaps it is by design just like Prophet Hosea had to address Israel on behalf of God when there was heightened religious apostasy.  Perhaps it is by design that I came at a time when the previous speakers have all demonstrated that there is an attempt at cultural apostacy.  Our people are becoming more American than they are Zimbabwean.  There is evidence of an attempt at misdirecting our cultural compass.  It is instructive that the Hon. Members from my side who debated from day one to date were informed by the legal principle qui facit per alium facit per se.  He who commits a crime through the hand of another has committed it himself. 

Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon Matangira spoke moments preceding this one, actually he articulated our history well. I believe as Hon. Mushoriwa said the other day, that everyone in Zimbabwe, especially Parliamentarians must be knowledgeable about our history.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I laboured through Hon. Hamauswa’s debate pertaining to this motion, when he attempted to tell us that the motion only spoke of communal land.  When I read it, it referred to all the land, including communal land.  As such Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important for me not to repeat what Hon. Matangira has already said because he has chronicled a history that is painstaking.  A history to which we must not again travel in flesh, but only in spirit. 

My good friend, the Hon. Bajila gave us an example of the Ingonyama Trust in South Africa.  My good teacher, Hon. Dr. Mutodi, would always say, ‘Do not copy from the book of a failure’.  Mr. Speaker Sir, the highest gini-coefficients, the world over, not only in Africa, is posted by South Africa.  What examples can we take from South Africa?  Only now, have they started to talk about equality in terms of land ownership.  Talking of inequality, there is inequality between families, inequality within families and there is always an issue of strongmen. We exist in a patriarchal society where fathers normally decide on behalf of their families and where chiefs decide on behalf of their kingdoms or their subjects.  If we were to give title deeds to the Malinganiso family, who would administer or who would act on behalf of the family? 

Mr. Speaker, this is a question my good friend Hon. Bajila must grapple with. However, as he said, even if you read the Bible, it says, ‘In the beginning, God’. Perhaps there is a leaf for us to take from 2 Peter 3 verse 17 which says, ‘Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error and fall from your secure position’.  But what is our secure position? Our secure position is our current state, where nobody, especially in the communal areas is allowed to sell because the land is owned by all.  We cannot afford to give everyone a title deed. 

Mr. Speaker on Saturday, March 16^th this year, the Hon. Speaker of Parliament Adv. Jacob Mudenda, in delivering an animated keynote address on ecological conservation, reminded us that we must, like our celebrated ancestors, be able to envision a future, and inspired, I would underline the need to conserve. The question to arise is, whether or not we are taking a leaf from Sekuru Kaguvi, Mbuya Nehanda, King Lobengula, their cahoots, their successors, both departed and alive, who for envisaging a future for encompassing and daring to do the right thing in serving the black fraternity would become the heroes of a protracted armed struggle, to liberate, not only themselves, not only us, but the extensible future generations. All, we serve a mere appendage of the not so invisible third force, which is the project of imperialism as housed in neo-colonialism, against whose machinations President Nkrumah warned his audience on May 24^th 1963 in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia.

Mr. Speaker Sir, if neo-colonialism existed prior to the commencement of the armed struggle, it is therefore instructive that neo-colonialism has also evolved through the vicissitude of time. Mr. Speaker Sir, I therefore, suspect that the intention to hand title deeds, be it to communal land owners or communal lands custodians or agricultural land is a neo-colonial tool to reverse the gains of the revolution. Maybe the question to ask is, are we seeing the way our predecessors saw or thinking in a manner they did? Are we in the very relay race, kindling that they envisioned or we are in some sense and albatross to the fulfillment of the cause for which they sacrificed their precious lives? Are we remembering heroes in graves unmarked who perished so we enjoy these freedoms?

African wisdom has it that what an elder see seated on a flat plain, a child cannot see even when standing atop a mountain. In his book, ‘Things Fall Apart’, Chinua Achebe said of the young, that we are the suckers that will grow when the old banana tree dies, but is there a possibility Mr. Speaker Sir, that a banana tree may bear lemons? I pose this question because we are a people with a unique tradition, a people with a defined culture. Why are we investing so much energy in trying to detach or delink from our traditions? Perhaps there is a possibility that banana suckers may bear lemons for the motion before us is one that is, especially bigger than its face value, bearing the likelihood for inspiring consequences disproportionate. This I say in view of the profuse illegal parceling of both communal and agricultural land across the country.

One will therefore ask, if people bear this audacity to parcel out communal land against existing statutes without title, in whose hands would land be, should it happen to have title deeds? Perhaps in the hands of the erstwhile colonisers because we exist in a word of the free market economy, the neo-liberal world where the highest bidder secures more. I am inviting us to resist and desist from arriving at a place of issuing title deeds. Mr. Speaker Sir, our wisdom of past is vast and enduring, surviving the test of time. They say chawawana batisisa midzimu haipe kaviri.  We must guard jealously against anything that bears the propensity to reverse the gains of the revolution particularly title deeds. 

          Mr. Speaker, since we crossed the Zambezi and Limpopo Rivers, us the descendants of Murenga the son of Tovera, land belonged to all and it existed without title.  The issue of title is a foreign phenomenon as Hon. Matangira has alluded to.  We must like Mbuya Nehanda, Sekuru Kaguvi, their successors will be able to conserve land for future generations.  King Lobengula never had title.  Mr. Speaker Sir, Ngugi wa Thiong’o argued persuasively that decolonising our minds is the prerequisite of true liberation.  Perhaps we must ask ourselves what is true liberation if it is not delinking from the erstwhile coloniser in truth and in spirit in mainstreaming our rich diversity and inclusive traditions where communities co-owned the land.  What happened to our traditions?  Why are we so keen on cutting that sacred umbilical code? 

          Mr. Speaker Sir, in certain instances, direction matters more than speed.  Perhaps in future when our people are as civilised to a level of not selling what their ancestors shed blood for, we can talk over title deeds.  Mr. Speaker Sir, if we go to Seke, Domboshava and if we go to Zvimba where I come from especially Kutama, the suggestion is we are not as mature yet.  We must decline the invitation to give title deeds to communal lands. 

          Nelson Mandela said our deepest fear is not inadequacy but power we wield beyond measure to the extent of asking ourselves in our case, who are we to be Africans, who are we to champion collective will.  Who are we to hold firm to our traditions?  Who are we to be Zimbabwean but the actual question must be who are we to serve as surrogates of the imperialists? 

          Mr. Speaker Sir, at 1 Kings 18 Verse 21, Prophet Elijah invited us to not waiver between opinions.  Joshua 24 Verse 15, Joshua would say “as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord”.  Mr. Speaker Sir, as for me and by my colleagues, I mean every progressive Zimbabwean.  We will rather argue in the spirit of leaving no one and no place behind. We relook into the A-1 Model so to cater for the great majority of our people that are on the waiting list with special emphasis on the former farm workers because land belongs to us all.  Land must not be a tool of inequality, a tool of furthering the interest of neo-colonialism or a tool of dividing us.  It must unite us – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -  I so submit Mr. Speaker Sir.  I thank you    

          HON. KAMBUZUMA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.  

          HON. BAJILA:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

          HON. KAMBUZUMA: I move that we revert to Order of the Day Number 1.

          HON. BAJILA:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

         

MOTION

REPORT OF THE JUDICIAL SERVICE COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2023

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MAZUNGUNYE):  I rise to give notice that That this House takes note of the Report of the Judicial Services Commission for the year 2023, presented to this House of Parliament in terms of section 253 and 323 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I thank you. 

          On that note Hon. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn. 

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday, 9^th April 2024.

          HON. BAJILA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Is the debate we are adjourning about the ZEC Report that the Minister referred to or the JSC Report that you referred to? Which report are we adjourning?

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MAZUNGUNYE):  With your indulgence Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that this House takes note of the report of the JSC for the Year 2023. That is the debate we intend to adjourn.

          Motion put and agreed to.

          Debate to resume: Tuesday, 9^th April 2024.

On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MAZUNGUNYE), the House adjourned at Twenty-Eight Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024.

SENATE HANSARD 4 APRIL 2024 VOL 33 NO 39

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 4^th April, 2024.

The Senate met at Half-past Two o`clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. KAMBIZI):  Today, being a Thursday, it is Questions Without Notice but I have a long list of apologies. I have received the following apologies from Hon. Ministers:

          Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion;

          Hon. K. D. Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion;

          Hon. M. Mavhunga, Minister of War Veterans of the Liberation Struggle;

          Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture;

          Hon. B. Rwodzi, Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry;

          Hon. T. Mnangagwa, Deputy Minister of Tourism and Hospitality Industry;

Hon. Brig. Gen. Rtd. L. Mayihlome, Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs;

          Hon. Sen. M. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development;

          Hon. J. Mhlanga, Deputy Minister of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development;

          Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Local Government and Public Works;

          Hon. B. Kabikira, Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works;

          Hon. S. Chikomo, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;

          Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; 

          Hon. C. Sanyatwe, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;

          Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;

          Hon. Prof. Dr. A. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;

          Hon. S. Sibanda, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;

          Hon. A. Gata, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;

          Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;

          Hon. Dr. S. N. Nyoni, Minister of Industry and Commerce;

          Hon. F. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development;

          Hon. E. Moyo, Minister of Energy and Power Development;

          Hon. Y. Simbanegavi, Deputy Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities;

Hon. V. Haritatos, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement;

Hon. Senators, I have only one Minister, Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities.

It is a situation that we may not want to see every Thursday as we expect many Ministers to answer our questions. However, that being the case, we have to do forthwith with the Minister that we have, and he will also be acting as the Leader of the House.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

          *HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. Before I pause my question to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities, I would like to say on a day like this, we expect to ask policy questions, and also find out progress because that is what we are asked when we go back to our constituencies.  As it is, in such an important House, we only have one Minister.  Is there anything that can be done to ensure that the situation improves? 

          Now, concerning my question, I would like to thank you for the splendid job you are doing of ensuring that you provide accommodation to the citizens.  What is Government policy with regards to ensuring that the houses that you are constructing are made in high-rise style because our land is not expanding, so if it is built on high-rise buildings, it means we can accommodate much more people?

          In addition, is your programme also available in the rural areas, there are districts and provinces where various people reside, including our civil servants without decent accommodation?

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Sen. Tongogara.  Indeed, your first concern; we are all concerned, but as it is, I will submit the message to the Leaders that this is indeed the situation in this august Senate.

*THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON.GARWE): Thank you Hon. Sen. Tongogara.  We have National Human Settlement Policy that tells us that wherever buildings or houses are being constructed, 40% must be constructed on high-rise buildings.  Our Ministry as well as the Ministry of Local Government and local authorities, as they survey and look at plans submitted by developers, must consider all that. They should allocate areas for high-rise buildings.

Secondly, indeed the vision of His Excellency, the President for Vision 2030 considers development in all facets of society including rural areas.  We have a plan in the Ministry to ensure that there is construction of houses in rural areas.  We have since started the project; the pilot project is at Uzumba Maramba Pfungwe (UMP)at Mutawatawa Growth Point, where we have constructed four blocks of flats with 16 houses, which means we are constructing 120 houses at UMP.  This project will spread nationwide, but when we requested plans from local authorities, UMP submitted the best plan which ensured that we jumped on to construction immediately. 

Yes, according to Vision 2030, no place and no one will be left behind.  We will also include recreational facilities to be constructed in all areas.  It is all in the plans of the Government. 

The Government is also aware that there are civil servants found in rural areas such as teachers, agricultural extension workers, nurses as well as business people including women and youth who work in rural areas. They also want houses like the ones we are constructing, so we will be considering all those plans and we will be prioritising them as we go forward.  I thank you.

HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I would like to also thank the Hon. Minister for that explanation outlining their plan as a Ministry.  What I wanted to find out is, since he said they are working with the Ministry of Local Government, are there people monitoring how the local authorities are allocating such land to ensure that the local authorities allocate such land, specifically with that plan in mind to ensure that civil servants get allocation from local authorities?  I thank you.

          *THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  Thank you Mr. President.  Sen. Tongogara, I am sure we are all aware that local authorities work under the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.  They are the ones that are responsible for monitoring them to ensure compliance, but as we are the drivers of the human settlement policies, we work hand-in-hand with the local government authority to ensure that the local authorities are compliant and fulfilling the 40% allocation dedicated for flats.  We are aware that there were some plans that were already approved, so we let them proceed but as we move forward, we expect compliance.  Wherever there will be houses constructed, 40% will be flats.

          Local Government and Public Works, in conjunction with our Ministry, will ensure that all developers and contractors are complying with the law.  I thank you.

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I would like to inform Senators that in the House, we have the Deputy Minister for Industry and Commerce, Hon. R. Modi.  So those with questions, you are free to direct them to him. 

          HON. SEN. SIBANDA:  Thank you President of Senate.  My question goes to the Leader of the House.  The radiotherapy machine at Mpilo Hospital has not been functional since August 2020, which is four years back.  When you are doing radiation there, you are given about 23 sessions to do using a radiotherapy machine.  I had to undergo therapy there and I think I only did 17 sessions and the machine broke down.

Up to now, the machine has not been working.  We have got so many people suffering from different cancers in Zimbabwe and Mpilo Hospital is one of the biggest referral hospitals.  Now, it is four years since the machine broke down.  Is there a way the Government is going to see to the new machine? Is it going to repair the machine at all or it is something that has already been forgotten?

I hope my question will reach the right Ministry because this machine is one of the machines that is very important in the treatment of all the cancers because it helps.  The treatment is done through radiation and the machine is the one that is used to treat most of the cancers.  I do not know if it is already forgotten about.  I would like to know whether the machine is ever going to be repaired or if we are going to get a new machine at all at Mpilo Hospital.  Thank you.

THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  That one is a specific question that is talking of a specific hospital and all things being equal, it is supposed to be put in writing.  However, I will give the Minister the option if he has anything to say about it.

THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): Thank you Mr. President.  Let me thank Hon. Sen. Sibanda for the question.  Like you said Hon. President, this is a specific question referring to a specific location.  I kindly request that the Senator puts it in writing, then I will submit it to the responsible Minister to come and answer to it.  Thank you.

THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Hon. Sibanda, if you could put it in writing, I think you will get a proper answer from the correct Ministry.

+HON. SEN. MLILO:  I want to thank the President of Senate for giving me this opportunity.  My question has already been asked as part of a question, but I am going to talk about Mpilo Hospital as a referral hospital.  Looking at the whole of Matabeleland, particularly considering the population and the huge traffic of people who go to Mpilo, what plans has the Minister in terms of assisting people so that they get accommodation instead of sleeping on the floor?  What are Government plans concerning Mpilo Hospital?  I thank you.

THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Hon. Sen. Mlilo, in the same vein, I think if you could intertwine your questions since they are referring to one hospital, we will be able to get a better explanation next week when we come to this House.

Just a reminder to all other Hon. Members.  The moment that you realise that your question is specific to a particular station or to a particular road or hospital, put it in writing and submit it and then the responsible Minister will receive that question and will come specifically to answer to that question.

*HON. SEN. SHIRI:  Thank you Mr. President.  I want to direct my question to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities.  We appreciate we have heard that you have got plans to accommodate everyone.  Zimbabwe would want to know what plans were set aside for the disabled so that they have accommodation also and that buildings are built taking into consideration the disabled.  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  I want to thank you Senate President Sir and I want to thank Sen. Shiri for that pertinent question.  We have three categories of people who are equally important.  Firstly, those who live with various disabilities, secondly our war veterans and thirdly our young people and women.

As I speak, we are working towards promulgating a law, the allocation policy so that when we build houses, houses should then be allocated to different sectors like young people, women, the disabled and war veterans.  This is what we are doing because in the past, people were just being given houses without considering the disabled.  Then also we are going to look at the building plans, how we build our houses.  We know that most houses were built without considering various disabilities so that the disabled are able to get into houses, but we have engaged engineers and those who draw plans to consider that whilst drawing plans so that they consider the disabled for easy access to hospitals, hotels, residential houses, offices and other amenities which should cater for the disabled.  I thank you.

    ⁺HON. SEN.  NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question, which is directed to the Hon. Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities, who spoke about Local Government.  Mr. President of Senate, since people are being allocated stands by local authorities, is it allowed by Government that council workers be the ones who get two or three stands before others, and then they resale those stands to other people?

    THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON.  GARWE): Thank you Hon. President. Can you indulge and ask anyone who can speak Ndebele to interpret for me?

    THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  I can ask the Member to do that in Shona.

   *HON. SEN. NDEBELE: Thank you very much Hon. President, I thank you.  It is my wish if people could also understand Ndebele. My question is; is it legal that council officials should get stands before other people?  Some getting two or three stands then they resell to other people.

    THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is a specific question which would need figures or statistics.  If you know of a particular area then you can say that, but if the Hon. Minister is comfortable then he can respond to the question.

    THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): I want to concur with you that what you have said is what I was thinking, maybe the Hon. Member should put it in writing so that as Local Government, we will engage our officers so that we come back with a comprehensive report.  I thank you.

    *HON. SEN. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Minister, I did not request for statistics. I am asking if it is legal or is it Government policy for council staff to own more land?

    *HON. GARWE: Hon. President of Senate, we do not know where this is happening, but if we get a written question, then we can investigate from there, what the laws say and in which particular area.  From what the Hon. Member is saying, she is alluding to corruption by council officers who are allocating each other more stands and reselling to people.  That is not legal or Government policy so, it is important that you put it in writing so that we carry out a comprehensive research so that we iron out the issue and solve the problem.

    *HON. SEN. GUMBO: Thank you Hon. President, I want to direct my question to the Hon. Minister of National House and Social Amenities.  In Kariba there is a project, I wanted to ask how far the project is and how it is moving?

     *THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  Thank you Hon. President of Senate, that question is a very specific question which is specific to a particular project. However, this falls under my Ministry, I am comfortable responding to the question.  That project was started many years by IDBZ bank.  The bank could not continue with the project, and they approached Government for assistance to complete the project and we accepted.  We sent our specialists who went to the ground and we invited engineers who were working with IDBZ, there were some monies that were not paid to the engineers who said that they could come after being paid.  Government paid the engineers, we decided to review what has been done and what has not been done.  So because of the rainfalls which had come at that particular time, some of the projects were not good. As I speak, the contractor who was given that job together with our engineers, are working hard and are completing the Kasese project.  I thank you.

     THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I want to inform the Senate that we have been joined by Hon. Soda, the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.   He is at your disposal for any question.

     HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President of Senate.  My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Industry, but he has now left.  I do not know whether I can continue.

     THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You can continue.

     HON. SEN. MOHADI: My question is that His Excellency the President, declared a national disaster on food. My question is; is the business community allowed to import maize and mealie-meal from surrounding countries?

     THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): Thank you very much Hon. President of Senate and I thank the Hon. Senator for the question. The answer is yes. That pronouncement was made through the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries and Rural Development, so it is allowed.

     ⁺HON. SEN. PHUTHI: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask my question on the issue of food.  My question is Mr. President, what is Government policy regarding a Minister who comes to this august Senate and says wrong information. Yesterday, we asked about food and the Minister said, “do not panic everything is in order”.  Where is the order?  I want to thank the Hon. Minister who informed His Excellency the President that the situation is bad because we have been raising these issues.  So what is Government policy regarding such a Minister?

     THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can you ask a question Hon. Senator, do not debate.

     ⁺HON. SEN. PHUTHI: My question is; what is Government policy regarding a Minister who deceives the august Senate?  In Ndebele, I will say that is lying to the nation. What happens to the Hon. Minister and when is the Minister going to be removed for lying to the nation? I thank you.

      THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON.  GARWE): Thank you Hon. President, I think the question is very specific, it relates to a specific Minister at a specific time with a specific issue.  It will be prudent that the Hon. Senator put that question in writing so that authorities above me interrogate the issue and process it accordingly.  I thank you.

      THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Phuthi, you can also put that question in writing so that we get a good response next week.

          *HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: Mine is not a supplementary question, but it is a question which I want to direct to the Minister of Mines. We have noticed that the Chinese are mining in different areas but for them to leave something for the communities particularly developing schools, boreholes and other things, what should we do in terms of dismissing them because they are not benefitting the communities?

          *THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. The first thing is that if they were given permission to mine legally, you cannot remove them in whichever area where they will be mining. We need to find ways like what we are explaining. I am saying this because as this august House, we are the people who respect the law that we promulgate as Parliament and the Ministry of Mines gives people authority and permission to mine legally.

          So, the laws that we are using are passed by this august House. It is not a good thing that the same Parliament which passes laws, we put the law aside and fire people. What we want to do is that if there is a specific issue, it should be written down as to how they are making mistakes so that the Ministry will carry out investigations. Let me also add by saying that if the Ministry of Mines has permitted a miner to mine, what we expect is that before mining, the miner is given an Environmental Impact Assessment Report which is done by EMA.

          EMA has a responsibility of reviewing what would happen and how the environment will upset the people’s livelihoods and other things. There are consultations that are done and during consultations, traditional leaders are engaged and they would explain the areas which are sacred. There are a number of areas where we know that there are sacred places and there are graves and other shrines where the community does not expect miners to venture into such areas.

So, it is important that communities are consulted and there is mutual understanding. Also, there are some miners who can be engaged so that health issues, schools, roads and other projects can be discussed between communities and such miners. This is happening in other areas and this is what we look forward to be seeing. If there is a specific issue, please put it in writing so that we can carry out an investigation and we reach an amicable solution. I thank you.

+HON. SEN. RITTA NDLOVU: My supplementary question is on illegal miners who are mining where they are not supposed to be mining. As I am speaking, in Bulawayo, we have a number of dams where people draw their water from. You would find that there are pits which, no matter how the rain falls, but water is diverted into such pits instead of where it is supposed to go and people are mining illegally and no one is taking action against illegal miners. For us who stay in Bulawayo, we face shortages because no matter how much rainfall we get, it is not going to the dams because of these illegal miners. I thank you.

HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. President. The issue of illegal mining can only be resolved through reporting to relevant authorities. We have the police that can also assist whenever there are illegal mining activities. We can also approach the Ministry of Mines in our various provinces but how they function, even if you report to the Ministry of Mines, they will still approach the police for enforcement of our laws and regulations.

I am aware the Hon. Member has spoken about the effects of illegal mining activities that are happening in Bulawayo to the extent that there is siltation and the water that is supposed to be collected in some dams is failing to get to the dams because of the illegal mining activities that are being conducted. The best that we can do is to make a formal report, either to the police or to the Ministry of Mines so that the mining activities are stopped. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Ministry of Public Service. In his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of Government business or any Ministry who will respond. My question is that we appreciate the laws that are obtaining, particularly the Constitution which gives us the authority to be able to communicate in different languages which are in the Constitution.

We note that the languages which we are allowed to communicate in are found to be generating controversy where sometimes you find people saying that we want English only in the workplace. We want to know what can be done. You hear that in five ‘O’ Levels there should be English, especially when people are being engaged by the Public Service. I thank you.

          *THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo for that pertinent question.  Indeed, this august House, Parliament and Senate through the passing of the Constitution which passed 16 local languages that are officially recognised and can be used in the work place, the challenge is that there are a few who can communicate and interpret the languages.  The second challenge is that we have some international languages like English that are expected from anyone who is being employed so that they are able to represent their organisation when they are sent outside the country.  When we speak our local languages without international languages, it becomes a challenge to send such a person outside the country.  It is important that we communicate in our languages.

However, I am going to forward your question to Hon. J. G. Moyo so that he brings feedback, but this is my response as the Acting Minister in that regard.  I thank you.

+HON. SEN. S. MOYO:  Thank you for this opportunity to ask my question.  My question is directed to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities regarding the issue that in the past few days, we saw people having their properties being destroyed because the stands were obtained illegally.  My question is; what has Government done regarding giving these people stands because they bought stands from people who were awarded tenders by Government.  They bought the stands not knowing that the stands are illegal.  I thank you.   

*THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I want to thank the Hon. Sen. for that question.  There is no Government policy that says, people’s houses should be destroyed.  Government did not destroy anyone’s property.  We all know that we have two ways of habiting.  In places, there are some who are habiting legally and then there are also others who settled in areas that were given to developers to work with Government with Government providing the areas, whilst developers bring resources to develop the areas.

We find such people selling land.  We also know that sometimes, this can be done illegally and this has resulted in areas that are allocated where there are no roads, toilets and the stands are not serviced.  Therefore, as Government, we need to come up with plans.  We are regularising such areas looking at how people were settled, and we look at layout plans that are laid by the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.  Those who settled illegally and those who were allocated stands legally, those who were given legally are resettled in properly serviced stands and those who built in compliance with laid out plans, Government is partnering with business people so that they service the roads, water reticulation systems and toilets.

His Excellency the President, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa, last year, came up with a programme of regularisation through the allocation of title deeds because land barons were taking advantage of people.  So for that not to recur, we were told to work holistically with different line ministries including the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.  Those who built their houses in wetlands, schools and those who built in proper residential areas, it is the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works that has the responsibility of coming up with layout plans.  They specify where there are supposed to be roads, water, electricity and residential areas, then the Ministry of National House and Amenities is responsible for on site infrastructure, looking at whether roads have been constructed, water and other projects. Then the Ministry of Energy and Power Development would come in installing different electrical projects whether it is hydro or solar power and other technologies; then we have CMED and other departments coming in to work on the roads. 

After that, people can be given title deeds because roads would have been allocated names and there is proper pegging where you find that someone has a particular stand, Stand Number 20, Mufakose or a different area.  This is what is written in the title deeds and it is taken to the Deeds Office and deeds are then generated.  No one is allowed to destroy anyone’s property.  It is not Government policy because Government wants people to have shelter because shelter is a basic right that is enshrined in the Constitution.  The Right to Shelter is universal.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. KADUNGURE:  Thank you Mr. President.  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.  What is Government policy regarding artisanal miners who were supposed to be empowered with tools of trade for them to be safe as they do their day-to-day duties?  I thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA):  Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I want to thank Hon. Sen. Kandungure for the pertinent question.  Indeed, it is true that Government is seized with bettering the lives of artisanal miners through the Artisanal Miners Strategy which has Gold Service Centres as centres that are going to be built with the anticipation that when a miner is mining but without tools of trade like the different machines that are used in the processing of their ore,  there should be service centres where there are mills where people bring their ore to be milled and separated from the stones.  This will be happening in Gold Service Centres.

Such centres will be One-Stop-Shops where gold, after processing is sold.  This is what is being done through the Artisanal Small Scale Mining Strategy regarding the issue that the Hon. Senator raised. Regarding that issue, let me say that Government put more than USD10 million, USD5 million is for the construction of gold service centres which I believe will be around five, then the difference of USD5 million will be used to buy the tools of trade. The different equipment that is being used, for instance, compressors, jack hammers and other smaller machinery which will be used by young people who are into mining and this will be distributed to all the provinces and the Ministry is working on procuring these tools of trade then through assessment, these will be disbursed to different provinces. I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you very much Mr. President.  I want to thank the Hon. Minister for that explanation.  My supplementary question is that in the past, mining was done with makorokoza because they used to leave holes. Now that artisanal miners are going to be mining properly, is there a way of ensuring that when they leave big pits, the pits will be covered because people are losing their livestock?  I thank you.

          HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. President.  Indeed, we have plans; what we noted at first is that just referring to people as makorokoza was derogatory and it affected them because it alienated them, so the strategy that we are taking is that what is legal should be happening and that they should do their mining legally in an acceptable way.

  So, they are not allowed to just mine wherever they want but there should be registration of where they will be mining and they should be guided by the law.  They have to make their applications, issued with claims, and inspections are done by the Ministry of Mines including declaring the production.   Whatever they produce, they must declare, which means that there is such inspection.  They must also be empowered with knowledge that when pits are dug they must be covered and this should be done by artisanal miners. So, now we know that in such and such areas, there is such a miner because they were formalised, they have applied, and that data is available.  I thank you.

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Allow me to announce to the House that we have been joined by Hon. Jesaya, the Deputy Minister of Sport and Recreation. 

          Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 67.

          HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President.  I move for the extension of time for questions without notice by ten minutes.

          HON. SEN. SHIRI: I second.

          HON. SEN. KATUMBA: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir.  I want to direct my question to the Deputy Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. What is the Government doing in terms of protecting our industry which is being destroyed, giving an example of clothing where second-hand clothes, shoes, and blankets are being imported by runners?  What is the Hon. Minister doing to protect our industry so that they continue functioning well?  I thank you.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. MAZUNGUNYE): Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I thank the Hon. Senator for that pertinent question.  My response is that I believe that the question is related to the Ministry of Industry, however, as the Ministry of Justice, the laws are there and if such people are carrying out their business illegally, they are arrested and they come to the courts, then the law will take its course. Looking at the crimes, if crimes are committed and if what they are doing is illegal, the courts are there to deal with people who commit different cases.

 However, looking at the importation, particularly the issue of runners, I think that should be directed to the Ministry of Industry and Commerce for clarity's sake.  I thank you.

          *HON. SEN. RUNGANI: Thank you Mr. President Sir.  As for Industry and Commerce, what is the Government doing to protect the clothing industry, runners are bringing clothes and other items using foreign currency and they are taking all the monies outside the country?  As a result, our industry is left with no business and is closed.  I thank you.

          HON. MAZUNGUNYE: Thank you for that supplementary question.  Like I said, this question should be directed to the Minister of Industry regarding the policy issue.  So, the question may be directed to the Acting Leader of Government Business.

          THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): Thank you Mr. President Sir.  I thank the Hon. Sen for that supplementary question.  It is like a chicken and egg case, where local factories are not charging prices that are in tandem with the day-to-day lives of Zimbabweans.  You find people overcharging.  This has opened the gap for the importation of goods which are cheaper. This is the result of profiteering that is happening.  Secondly, the Industry and Commerce Ministry is looking into these issues.  In the past two weeks, there was a ban on importation of cars which are 10 years and older because of such issues, but such issues, Mr. President Sir, particularly should then be put in writing because if it is put in writing, then there will be urgent interventions. 

So my request is that Hon. Senator, may you put it in writing so that we take the question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce so that there is clarity on the issue of runners and what is happening, but I urge our local business people to be efficient, not to overcharge people through profiteering.  This is opening the industry to runners because there is a lot of greed in local businesses.  I thank you.

*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI:  Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity.  I would like to repeat what I once said.  I want to say that Government employees, for example District Administrators or the DDCs, can be rotated, but there are some who are not rotated, which I believe is affecting operations because of people who are not rotated.  So my question is; what is Government policy regarding this?  I thank you.

*THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE):  Thank you Mr. President Sir.  Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief.  There is no Government policy which says that a headman should be removed and replaced by children.  The issue of relocating people or transferring people is not only for DDCs, but what is considered is your competence and the new deployments.  If you are competent, then this is merit based.  Whether it is at a low level or it is promotion, this is done through competence. 

I urge workers to go to school to better their competences so that such deployments are done.  There is no such law that says that a person should be removed from a position and replaced by another other person.

HON. SEN. TSHABANGU:  My question is directed to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development, and it is going to be in two-fold.

We have witnessed and realised the abuse by the large-scale miners of tax exemption facilities.  They will go in a community, support a football team, buy books which are worth US$200 and then apply for tax exemption through social corporate responsibility as a company and they are granted tax exemption.

My question is; can the Government create a scope whereby these companies, instead of buying books and sportswear for a football club, rehabilitate roads that they use, schools that are close by, clinics and hospitals which are dilapidated?  Can we not create a scope for one to qualify for tax exemption?

The other question is; how do you strike a balance between small-scale miners and big-scale miners like the mining companies that are well established in terms of tax proportions.  What is the range of tax, how are the small scale miners taxed, what is the tax bracket because we see them mushrooming everywhere and then the roads are being dilapidated, and then the responsibility goes to the bigger players which are established miners for them to rehabilitate the same roads that are being used by the small scale miners?

THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE:  Order Hon. Sen. Tshabangu, ask your question directly.  I think we are running out of time.

HON. SEN. TSHABANGU:  Those are the two questions.  I am sure the Minister got them very well.  If he did not, then I will come back.  Thank you.

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA):  Thank you Mr. President for the two questions that we indulged from Hon. Sen. Tshabangu.  The first question being on tax exemptions where his observation is that there is an abuse of the facility by large-scale miners.

Mr. President, taxes are administered through the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion.  They are the ones that administer the Finance Act and all the taxes and levies are imposed through the Finance Act.  So this question, Mr. President, would be well articulated if it is directed to the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion. However, what I can say for now is that already, through the announcement of the budget which was done last year to take effect from the beginning of this year, we have heard that the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion imposed a tax for corporate social responsibility.   It is no longer out of a miner’s will, but there is a tax that has been imposed where some collection will be made, and it is the responsibility of the Government now to redirect the proceeds of that tax towards corporate social responsibility activities.  So I want to believe that is going to address your concern.

Again, the issue of striking a balance between small-scale miners and large-scale miners.  It is also supposed to be articulated in the same manner that I have responded to the first question that it is the responsibility of the Ministry of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion to handle all tax issues.  I thank you Mr. President.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

PROVISION OF MODEN EQUIPMENT FOR THE

METALLURGICAL LABORATORY

11. 11. HON. SEN. ZVIDZAI asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to inform the House the plans being put in place by the Ministry to provide modern equipment for the Metallurgical Laboratory as well as the employment of qualified personnel.

          THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON.  SODA): Mr. President of Senate Sir, I move that we defer both questions No. 11 and 12, I will attend to them next week.

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, we have been joined by one other Minister though very late, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Hon. Jenfan Muswere.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE

BLAST AT 1630HRS

          THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have a very important announcement. At 1630hrs. we are going to have a very loud blast and Hon. Senators are advised not to panic but on your movement from here to town, you must use Good Hope Road because Old Mazowe Road detour has been heavily compromised.  On that note, I want to recognise Hon. Minister Garwe before he leaves, to adjourn the House.

          On the motion of THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE), the Senate adjourned at Six Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 9^th April, 2024.

 

 

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 3 APRIL 2024 VOL 50 NO 41

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 3^rd April, 2024

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER

RE-APPOINTMENT OF HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA AS PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT PRESIDENT

THE HON. SPEAKER: With regards to the Pan-African Presidency, Zimbabwe tendered the name of the Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira as a candidate for the Southern African Caucus as sponsored by Zimbabwe.  He won in the first round and because of the rules, after your Parliament, where you come from and the Parliament sponsoring you accepts you after the election and you have won, you are eligible to stand and continue in office.  This happened last week and Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira won with a super majority to continue as the Pan-African Parliament President – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-  We wish him well in this very difficult assignment to unite the Parliaments of the continent and address issues of trade as guided by the Africa Free Trade Area Agreement, and also tackle the topical issue of climate change as well as promoting democracy for all on the continent.

We could not announce it yesterday before we presented him to His Excellency the President and this was done this morning – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- 

NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE.      

          THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received non-adverse reports from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on Statutory Instruments published in the Gazette during the month of February 2024, save for Statutory Instruments 17, 18, 23 and 24 of 2024. 

PETITIONS RECEIVED FROM NSSA PENSIONERS ADVOCACY ZIMBABWE, COALITION FOR MARKET AND LIBERAL SOLUTIONS, CENTER FOR NATURAL RESOURCES GOVERNANCE, TAKUDZWA MANYERE AND CLARKSON MUZA

          THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Parliament received the following petitions; NSSA Pensioners Advocacy Zimbabwe of 1/131 Montgomery Drive, Prospect, Waterfalls, Harare, requesting Parliament to investigate and recommend the upward review of the meagre pension pay-outs received by NSSA pensioners.  The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.

          Another petition has been received from the Coalition for Market and Liberal Solutions of 6438 NICOZ Diamond Road, Zimre Park, Ruwa, requesting Parliament to enact relevant legislation that protects property rights in line with the Constitution of Zimbabwe.  The petition

has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.

A further petition has been received from the Center for Natural Resources Governance, beseeching Parliament to play its oversight role on the relevant authorities responsible for monitoring and evaluating the activities of mining companies by ensuring that unsafe mining practices taking place at Premier Estate are stopped in order to preserve the environment.  The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Mines and Mining Development as well as Environment, Climate and Wildlife. 

A further petition was received from Takudzwa Manyere of Zimbabwe Ezekiel Guti University, requesting Parliament to consider the Constitutional Court as the highest court in the country for all matters by extending its jurisdiction and amending the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.  The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.

The final petition was received from Clarkson Muza of No. 10 Pakama Road, Harrisvale, Bulawayo, requesting Parliament to investigate the circumstances of victimisation that he suffered after lodging a complaint of corruption against the officers of the Zimbabwe Republic Police.  The petition was deemed inadmissible and the petitioner was advised accordingly.

          HON. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on a point of national interest.  This is with regards to delays in the process of enacting the Persons with Disability Bill, which is amending the 1992 Disabled Persons Act and considering that it had taken long to be where we are today; the Disability Caucus, a constituency I represent, is appealing through your good offices, to engage the relevant Minister or the Leader of the House to expedite the process of finalisation of the gazetted Bill into law.  Kindly note that the Bill was gazetted on 9^th February 2024, and the relevant Committee is at an advanced stage of preparing for public hearings.  So I thought I should let you know where we are concerning the Disability Bill.  There is too much pressure coming from the disability community to have this Bill read in this House by the relevant Ministry.  I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  The Bill was gazetted only last month and today we are on 3^rd April and the due process as you indicated Hon. Member of the Committee responsible has started.  So where is the activation of the national interest?

          HON. KARIMATSENGA-NYAMUPINGA:  Mr. Speaker Sir, the activation is that it was gazetted in February and now we are in April.  You know how we have struggled to be where we are today to have the Bill come to the House.  So the Disability Caucus and the nation at large are anxious to have the Bill read in the House.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Thank you.  I would have appreciated if there was a delay of six months then we would be concerned, but one month and we are still inducting the Committees to know their responsibilities.  Anyway, the Acting Leader of Government Business, if you could take note and liaise with the Committee responsible so that the Bill is expedited as requested by the Hon. Member.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

          HON. CHIKWINYA: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and it is in two parts.  As much as we appreciate the massive road rehabilitation programme currently underway in the city of Harare, the programme is commendable.  Along the roadside, the City of Harare had allocated hundreds of men and women some vending stores and those have been displaced because of the road rehabilitation.  This was their survival kit.  I would want to find out from the Minister what he has in place to ensure the continuity of welfare of these hundreds of men and women who have been displaced by this programme.  On the other hand, day in and day out in the Harare CBD, we have seen the City Council and the Zimbabwe Republic Police fighting with vendors on the streets.  How is the Minister going to solve the problem between the police and the vendors who are fighting day in and day out because this problem has been going on for a very long time?  I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank Hon. Chikwinya for her two-part question concerning road rehabilitation and how it is disturbing vending or displacing the vendors, and basically asking what the Ministry of Local Government is doing. Road rehabilitation is a programme that is very important as a national programme, to make sure that our infrastructure is in good condition and is for the benefit of the nation in total. Those ones who were on the road and are…

Some Hon. Members having entered the House while business of the House had commenced.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. The three Hon. Members who have just come in now, please leave the House. We start at 10 past 2. Leave the House!

HON. DHLIWAYO: Point of clarity Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes.

HON. DHLIWAYO: Hon. Mahachi was here. He just went out now and the other Honourable, they just went out and came back.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you their spokesperson?

HON. DHLIWAYO: No, I am a witness Mr. Speaker Sir.

THE HON. SPEAKER: No interest. They should speak for themselves.

HON. MAHACHI: I was in the House Mr. Speaker Sir.

After other two Hon. Members having entered in the House.

THE HON. SPEAKER: The spokesperson, how about these two?

HON. DHLIWAYO: I can speak Mr. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Pardon!

HON. DHLIWAYO: They were here Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Now, I make this ruling, do not come in for two minutes and go out. You finish your business before the House begins. Otherwise, we will not entertain that. Thank you. Hon. Minister, please proceed.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I wish to thank Hon. Chikwinya for the question – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

Hon. Dr. Mutodi having entered the House.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please you are late. Go and rest somewhere. Hon. Mutodi, next time finish your national programme on time please. We have too many detours here. So, take that into account. Take your seat.

HON. DR. MUTODI: Thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, please proceed.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I wish to thank Hon. Chikwinya for the question concerning the effects of road rehabilitation on vendors basically and the other one asking about the fights between police and the vendors. First of all, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to say that the Road Rehabilitation Programme is a national, very important programme because this infrastructure is national infrastructure. The Ministry of Local Government must make sure that they participate and make sure that everything happens to facilitate this process. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very important to know that we have been able to determine whether these people on the road are legal or illegal. If they are legal, there are methods of compensating them. If they are illegal, I think illegalities are not compensated. 

On the other issue of police and vendors, it is very important again to answer it within this context of legal and illegal. If we are doing illegal activity, it is very important that the police do their job within the law, whether they are municipal police or national police. They have to be doing their job within the law. It is very important that we analyse every situation within the national interest and within the legalities or illegalities of each activity and evaluate that activity accordingly. I thank you Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Matewu having stood up on a supplementary question.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, before you proceed, which Member of Parliament raised the issue of point of order earlier on?

HON. MAVHUNGA: It is Hon. Mavhunga, Chitungwiza South.

Hon. Mavhunga having stood up.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mavhunga, when another Member is standing, you sit down. Hon. Mavhunga, the Clerks-at-the-Table indicated that they apologise. They should have given me the list of apologies, so I am going to read it out now and I apologise too.

HON. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER

APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS

THE HON. SPEAKER: The Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion, Hon. Prof. M. Ncube; Hon. J. Mhlanga, Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development; Hon. F. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; Hon. C. Sanyatwe, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Herigate; Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. A. Gata, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. R. Modi, Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. S. Simbanegavi, Deputy Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; and Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Local Government and Public Works.

HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was very concerned because this is a daily programme, in and out for years.  I want to know whether there could be a permanent solution to this problem as we move ahead towards creating a smart city. I thank you.

          HON.  PROF. MURWIRA:  Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question about the permanent solution.  It is very important that a country is governed by laws, and that these laws should be followed by every resident and citizen of the country.  That is exactly what we call the rule of law.  The continuity of any programme is the respect of the rule of law by those who enforce it, and those who might have a potential of violating that law.  It is very important that lawful activities must prevail in the local authority areas so that we preserve order and lives of the people, which is a very important right. Furthermore, livelihoods should be pursued within the law.  Enforcement of the law should also be done lawfully.  This is the basis of continuity of peace and dignity in the country.  I thank you. 

          HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Minister raises a very important question in terms of compensation for those who are affected by the roadworks.  I want to go specifically to the emergency road rehabilitation programme that is currently taking place.  It is displacing many people, not just in urban areas, but also in farms and other areas.  I did not hear the issue when we passed the national budget at the close of last year, 2023.  Where is the money coming from that is compensating all these people who are being affected by these road works?  I thank you.

          HON. PROF. MURWIRA:  Hon. Speaker, compensation is done within the context of the law.  It is very important that when we develop infrastructure, we know that we are developing infrastructure for this nation.  It is every citizen’s responsibility to make sure that this happens in a lawful and fair manner.  What we are saying here is that there is always a budget for compensation, it is very important that if these people are being compensated at all, it is coming from the fiscus; this is where the money is coming from. ….

          HON. MATEWU:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, if you can indulge me.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon. Matewu, I thought the Minister was still holding the floor.

          HON. MATEWU:  I think he was about to sit down, if you can indulge me Mr. Speaker.  We just want the Minister to be specific……

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Oder, order, Hon. Minister, Leader of Government Business, can you windup your response please. 

          HON. PROF. MURWIRA:  Hon. Speaker Sir, since this question is now out of the local government area which was being talked about, the issue of the police versus vendors, I would kindly ask Hon. Minister Mhona to talk about the source of the money from his budget.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order…

          HON. MATANGIRA:  On a point of order Hon. Speaker…

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Matangira, I have not finished my ruling.  I was saying Hon. Minister Mhona, if you could assist in the response.

          THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Let me also thank the Hon. Member for raising that very important question pertaining to the budgetary line items for those who will be compensated.  Mr. Speaker Sir, in the event that we are embarking in a project, we do budget and if it is budgeted for, it must appear in the Blue Book.  This is the procedure.  In the event that we then have an emergency as alluded to by the Hon. Member, then it becomes a declaration by His Excellency, the President that funding must be provided for.  When we do our budgeting process, we know we have an unallocated reserve account within the purview of the Ministry of Finance.  In the event of an emergency, we will tap into that fund to fund our projects and it will be emanating from the fiscus. 

          However, when it comes to the evaluations, we have the Ministry of Local Government, if we are talking of urban land, where they come in and assess so that they come up with precise values.  If we are talking of farms, we have the Ministry of Lands and Agriculture, where they will come up again with their modalities in terms of the evaluation.  It is very clear that if it happens before a budgetary process, we tap into the unallocated reserve through the Ministry of Finance. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Hon. Mhona, Mhona!]

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  I thought you were going to shout that the Ministers are in one Government.   Hon. Matangira, does your point of order still arise? 

          HON. MATANGIRA: Negative Sir, why, because he had said precision on those who had been disadvantaged, we wanted to know vakatorerwa nzvimbo dzavo.    It is now done. 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  In future, do not mix languages.     ^>>HON. NDOU: Thank you Hon. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. What is Government policy when it comes to the destruction of the environment including roads due to mining activities?  Human lives and livestock are being put at risk, people are perishing.    I thank you. 

          HON. SODA:  I did not quite get the question clearly but I suppose the Hon. Member wanted to ask about the destruction of the environment including the roads through mining activities. When a mine is granted in terms of its registration, there are some processes that must be complied with especially regarding the environment. A certificate has to be issued which entails that the miner will observe all requirements in terms of protection of the environment. That is one of the conditions precedent for the issuance of a mining title or a registration for one to start to do mining. We expect that miners will comply from the commitment that they would have given. An environmental social impact assessment would have been carried out before a certificate is issued.

However, we then find at times that there are some violations especially with miners after they would have made all such commitments. They then proceed to mine irresponsibly. Government had come up with an initiative which was launched last year by His Excellency the President, the Responsible Mining Initiative. It brings together a number of ministries to work towards ensuring that there is compliance when mining activities are being carried out. From time to time, there are some audits that are being carried out over and above the normal inspections that the Ministry of Mines conducts. We now have some audits that we carry out together with other ministries to ensure that there is compliance.

There is a lot that is happening. We normally carry out some inspections and we now have some responsible mining audits that are being mandated to be carried. With all that, we should be able to identify the violations and those that are caught on the wrong side of the law are punished immediately as a way of deterring them from committing environmental crimes.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, you are under the watch of cameras. There are two Members of Parliament here who have a habit of going to some dream. So, please do not embarrass us because when the pictures come out there, it shows that we are not serious with our business. I shall not name the Hon. Members, but please wake up. I want to see your faces.

Is Hon. Hadebe around? Where is he?

I thought you made a telling confession when we were at State House and you promised me that you would behave accordingly. Can you proceed and behave accordingly? Do not bring your ancestral stick into the House? Can you proceed as per your confession at State House?

HON. HADEBE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you proceed as per your confession at State House.

Hon. Hadebe withdrew from the Chamber with his knobkerry.

+HON. BAJILA: I have a supplementary question to the Minister. In his response, he said there are timely audits. How long does it take to carry on these audits and how long does it take for these audits to be revealed? I thank you.

THE HON. SPEAKER: The question is lost Hon. Member because the question needs numbers. Today, we are speaking of the Government’s policy and not the audits. On the issue of numbers, you should prepare a written question.

HON. S. MAPHOSA: My supplementary question is directed to the Minister of Mines, since he said that there are procedures that they use to evaluate the degradation that has been done by miners on the roads or the environment. I wanted to ask what is done after the degradation has been done by these miners. Is there a way or office that we are supposed to approach to report that there is land degradation and no rehabilitation has been happening in the process?

HON. SODA: Our Ministry is not qualified enough to assess even the damage that would have happened on infrastructure. There is a Ministry that is responsible for that and it is the Ministry of Environment. They have the expertise to ascertain the extent of the damage and punishment which is supposed to be levelled against perpetrators of violations. All that is handled through the Ministry of Environment.

They also administer a budget for rehabilitation as the Ministry of Environment. Like I indicated earlier on in my first response, we work together very closely especially when we are conducting some audits where a violation is ascertained. Immediately, the Ministry of Environment, through EMA, punish for such violations and they are responsible for all the rehabilitations. I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: The accent of the question was, how do you reclaim the environment? Would you want the Minister of Environment to assist? In other words, what is the process of reclaiming the environment that has been damaged?

          HON. SODA: Mr. Speaker, like I indicated, the Government has a mechanism, but that mechanism is administered or handled by the Ministry of Environment. All the reclamation is done through the Ministry of Environment.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: So there is no Minister or Deputy Minister of Environment here. Leader of Government Business, can you assist? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order! When the Chair has announced the Leader of Government Business, that leader must be respected. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – And I do not accept the howling. It must stop once and for all. If I identify the leader of the howling, then that leader will suffer the consequences immediately.

          THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Whenever a legal mining activity is taking place, there is an Environmental and Social Impact Assessment. Part of this details the Environmental Management Plan which is required by the Ministry of Environment through EMA. This EMP is the one that is revoked when rehabilitation is taking place. Therefore, Government has a mechanism of making sure that the assessment of the environmental damage is done expertly via the EMP. So yes Mr. Speaker, there is a mechanism that is enshrined in law, and that is in accordance with the Constitution on environment management matters.

          THE HON. SPEAKER: And the Environmental Act Section 98 to 102 does vouch for what the Hon. Minister and Leader of Government Business has said. If you have time, read those sections, 98 to 102.

          HON. CHIDUWA: My supplementary is, what is Government policy regarding devolving the responsible mining policy to artisanal miners?

          THE HON. SPEAKER: That is a brand-new question altogether. It does not relate to environmental damage unless if you want to recraft it.

          HON. DHLIWAYO: Given the contribution by artisanal miners, what is the Government doing in trying to conscientise our miners on the environmental responsibility, apart from the punishments that you are administering?

          THE HON. SPEAKER: What is the problem with the artisanal miners? Can you restate your case?

HON. DHLIWAYO: There are cases where these artisanal miners are just arrested or stopped, maybe because they have violated some laws on environmental issues. So I am saying, what is the Government doing in trying to conscientise those miners on responsible mining because arresting or ministering punishments alone is not sufficient, given the fact that these artisanal miners are making a great contribution to our gross domestic product?

          THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, you are trying to be the spokesperson for Hon. Chiduwa in reverse gear and your question does not apply to the damage of the environment.

          *HON. ZVAIPA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, but in his absence, I will redirect the question to the Leader of Government Business. My question pertains to the issue which was happening at RBZ in the past. Every Tuesday, people from companies used to go and buy money from the money market, but from January to April this month, we have not heard anything. Why is it that it is no longer happening? Chii chamisa musika? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Chamisa chii kutengeswa kwemari kumusika watanga tinawo? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Hapana chamisa.

          HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Supplementary Mr. Speaker Sir…

*THE HON. SPEAKER: I think you heard the response from the Hon. Minister.  There is nothing that has stopped us. 

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Supplementary Mr. Speaker! 

*THE HON. SPEAKER: Supplementary for what whilst you have enough information.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: Since January 2024, the auction system has failed to support the local companies.  The supplementary question is…

THE HON. SPEAKER: May you start your question again.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: It is common cause Mr. Speaker that from January to date, the auction market has not supported or provided the required foreign currency…

THE HON. SPEAKER: The original question is, chii chamisa auction?  It did not ask about support of other entities.  It was directed as, has the auction system stopped or not and the Hon. Minister said it has not.  

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: My supplementary question then follows that…

THE HON. SPEAKER: No, there is no supplementary question.  It does not arise from the original question. 

HON. MADZIVANYIKA:  It has arisen from the original question.

THE HON. SPEAKER: No, I have ruled – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections. -

*HON. SAGANDIRA: The response given by the Leader of Government says there is nothing that has stopped.  If there is nothing that has stopped them, why is it that things are not flowing?

THE HON. SPEAKER: Let me not preempt the Hon. Minister’s response.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA:  As you rightly said Hon. Speaker, the answer that you have given was based on the question pane chamisa here? The answer was there is nothing that has stopped things from happening meaning to say that if a bus is delayed by two or three minutes or an hour, it does not necessarily mean that it has stopped.

HON. MATEWU: The issue raised by the Hon. Member has to do with what has led to the collapse of the Zimbabwean dollar.  We expect the Government to give us an answer when we ask. The auction system has not been functional.  We want to know where these rates are coming from because it is not working and has not been happening.  The Hon. Minister has to be honest and answer questions as they come and not joke around when people are suffering in this country.

THE HON. SPEAKER: If your point of order was being asked three or six months down the line, it would hold water.  Why do you not allow the fulness of time to be the judge?  Understand my English - why do you not allow the fulness of time, then you make that judgement.

HON. MADZIVANYIKA: On a point of order, the question that was asked three weeks before was to do with the monetary policy and not the foreign auction market. So, with your indulgence Mr. Speaker, I ask you to allow the Hon. Minister to respond accordingly. 

THE HON. SPEAKER: What I understood from the original question was, chii chamisa auction rate, auction system - as simple as that.   Let the fulness of time be the judge and the question will arise definitely and the Hon. Minister responsible will answer accordingly.

HON. MAKOMBE: Thank you so much Hon. Speaker.  My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works if he is here and if he is not, I will direct it to the…

THE HON. SPEAKER: Please, it is not your responsibility to direct questions, just ask the questions. It is the Chair that will direct.  Ask the question.

HON. MAKOMBE: Thank you so much Hon. Speaker.  My question is that I want to know the Government policy on issues of billing in USD which is being done by local authorities and also converting arrears into United States dollars because we know previously, they used to bill using our local currency. 

THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir …

THE HON. SPEAKER: Sorry, sorry. Is the Minister there?

THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): Mr. Speaker Sir, I am acting in that regard.

THE HON. SPEAKER: You did not declare your acting capacity.  Please proceed.

HON. GARWE: Government allows local authorities or any other businesses to trade either in Zimbabwean dollars or other currencies in the basket of currencies.  There is nothing wrong if you are being billed in local currency or USD.

*HON. MATSUNGA:  My supplementary question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works.  What the Hon. Minister has referred to is not true.  I think he should issue a statement so that our people in the constituencies will understand how their money is working because they do …

THE HON. SPEAKER:  What is your question?

*HON. MATSUNGA: The Hon. Minister should bring a ministerial report which will enforce that our currency is strong because our local authorities are not accepting our local currency because it is weak. 

*HON. GARWE:  I think we are all aware that we are allowed to accept or use foreign or local currency when buying.  The challenge is that maybe the person does not have the local or foreign currency but it is within the law.  This is why we are using forex as well as local currency. 

THE HON SPEAKER:  If there are any people who are demanding USD, bring the list to the Hon. Minister so he can deal with the matter accordingly.

          HON. JAMES:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  Can the Minister of Local Government not pass a directive to assist pensioners in all the urban and rural areas to have some sort of discount so that they do not have to go through hurdles and hurdles to get the discount?  Can the Minister not get a discount for pensioners? 

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Is it when they have to pay their bills to local authorities or what?

          HON. JAMES:  Yes, when paying their bills and supplementary bills.  I thank you.

          HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, earlier on, I directed that the Member who asked the question should put it in writing so we will respond to all the questions at once.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Hon Brian James, the Minister is saying that if there are instances of that nature in Mutare Central, just compile a list and he will deal with the matter accordingly. 

          HON. JAMES:  Thank you Mr. Speaker, I was asking for a blanket response.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, that exercise will lead to a blanket decision.

            HON. HAMAUSWA:  On a point of clarity Mr. Speaker Sir.  I wanted to assist on that matter if you can indulge me Mr. Speaker Sir.

          THE HON SPEAKER:  Order, order, order!  Please read your Standing Rules and Orders correctly.  When the Chair has made a ruling, you cannot debate again.  So what you need to do is to approach the Hon. Minister and whisper to him whatever you want to whisper to the Hon. Minister.

          HON. S. ZIYAMBI:  Hon. Speaker, this year the country has experienced climate change induced drought and in line with that, what is Government’s policy with regards to the importation of GMOs.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Can you elaborate on your GMOs.  Is it GMO maize or wheat?  What is it that you are talking about?

          HON. S. ZIYAMBI:  I am talking about maize imports, especially genetically modified maize from other countries.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  Yes, that is clearer now.  Thank you.

          THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA):  Hon. Speaker Sir, Government is very clear on genetically modified organisms, particularly maize in this case.  When maize comes into the country, before consumption by either animals or people, it is grinded or milled.  So the policy is that yes, we can import, but under very special circumstances and handled under very special circumstances to avoid the contamination of the environment.  So the policy is to grind or mill before use and store appropriately.

          HON. S. ZIYAMBI:  In line with that Hon. Speaker, we all know that in a drought year, UN Agencies such as NGOs and faith-based organisations will be granted permission to bring in food or maize into the country to alleviate hunger in the population.  What policy is in place to ensure that these UN Agencies do not bring in genetically modified maize?  I thank you.

HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you for the supplementary question.  It does not matter who is bringing the maize.  When maize comes, even if it had legs and walked into the country, we would still grind it or mill it.  I hope I am being figuratively clear.  I am just saying this to be more dramatic in terms of trying to explain.  It does not matter whether it is the UN, an individual, Government itself, or private companies that bring in maize.  As long as it comes within the jurisdiction of Zimbabwe, the law says it is stored in special places and milled before use by either animals or people.  So this policy applies across the board and it is the duty of the National Biotechnology Authority working together with the Ministry of Agriculture, to ensure that there are no violations to this.  If there are violations, then it means it is against the law.  I thank you.

          HON. MATANGIRA:  Hon Speaker Sir, we understand the strategic maize that is being delivered in the rural areas is real maize.  Is this maize also imported or our own homegrown maize?  If the maize that is going to be imported later on and milled, will the shelf life of that mealie-meal still be okay by the time it reaches Mukosa at the Mozambique border?  Will the mealie-meal not be contaminated or maybe rotting by the time it gets to the people?

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  The question does not arise because the Hon. Leader of Government Business said all categories of maize are tested accordingly.

          HON. DHLIWAYO:  Apart from allowing the GMOs, what else is Government doing to try and improve the volume of imports, especially by the private sector and also to try and lower the cost of importing that maize.  I thank you.

          THE HON. SPEAKER:  That is a fresh question and has nothing to do with GMOs.

          HON. SAGANDIRA:  My question is on the GMOs.  What policy is there to do GMO maize farming, the same way it is being done in cotton farming?  What is the policy regarding the farming of GMOs in Zimbabwe?

THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Currently, there are controlled experiments on cotton. The policy does not allow at this moment to do anything outside of cotton. We are in the process of understanding the science before policy can allow such a movement. The movement that is there is on cotton and there are controlled places where this is happening under the supervision of the National Bio-Technology Authority. Hon. Speaker Sir, the policy at this moment does not currently allow the growing of genetically modified maize in Zimbabwe. I thank you.

HON. MUNEMO: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My name is Labbany Munemo from Mt. Darwin North. Good afternoon.

THE HON. SPEAKER: Good afternoon.

HON. MUNEMO: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. I would like to thank the Ministry of Social Welfare for the effort made on the first quarter to feed the community. However, I may want to seek Government clarification on whether they are to continue with the feeding since the first quarter was not so viable and equitable to the community. I thank you.

THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member from Mt. Darwin for elaborating that we were feeding in the first quarter based on last year’s harvest. We had a limited target of 2.7 million people who were feeding. As Hon. Members are now aware, the President has just declared a state of disaster. This state of disaster means there is deepened need for us looking at an expanded delivery of food to food insecure people in the country. We are going to take a rapid assessment between now and the 15^th April which the President has also sanctioned that it ought to be done. With this rapid assessment, we are going to expand the food distribution from that date of the 15^th April to September this year.

The expanded food distribution requires that every village in this country led by village heads, supervised by headmen and chiefs with every stakeholder involved in each village, we will start writing the names of those who are food insecure from each village. We will start distributing to those who will have been listed. At the same time, I am saying up to September because in September, normally we step up the distribution. In September, we start linking our food distribution to preparations for the new coming season. That is why in the joint letter that we sent out between the Minister of Agriculture and myself, we said from September, all able-bodied people who are desirous to continue to receive food assistance should now do the Presidential Intwasa/Pfumvudza so that we come out of this El Nino induced drought having resilience and having prepared for it.

We are sure that from this month, we will step up distribution. For those who were receiving among the 2.7 million people, we are continuing with their distribution up to end of May. We think that from the 15^th April, we will start adding more. We are doing this before even the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment Committee (ZimLAC) is finished because we think that it is urgent that we start by writing people who are in the villages. We think that the villages are our best community-based assessment for those who are food insecure. I thank you Madam Speaker.

HON. MUNEMO: Madam Speaker, my supplementary question is, there is some discrepancies we have witnessed from this feeding scheme that has lapsed this previous quarter. The problem was emanating from the wards delimitation. They were using the old delimitation numbers yet the feeding scheme was using the new delimitation figures. There are a lot of discrepancies which gave the wards some quarters that were not supposed to be given to them. Let me come again on this one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May we have order!

HON. MUNEMO: We had issues Madam Speaker on the wards. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare had given some portions to receive from GMB. The portions were also cut by the GMB officials, meaning the wards were not going to suffice with the portions they were given from the Social Welfare. It means there is no good rapport between the GMB and the Social Welfare…

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay Honourable. So, what is the question?

HON. MUNEMO: My question is, what is the Government’s position on the issue of delimitation? What are they going to do so that they have correct figures to feed the community?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Munemo, I think that is an administration issue, but the Hon. Minister can respond to the question. 

THE MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO):  This is a very important question. I will answer it although it does not arise.  Let me explain what we are trying to do in order to overcome what the Hon. Member is alluding to.  The Zimbabwe vulnerability assessment was done before delimitation last year.  The figures that I am talking about of 2.7 obviously were not aligned to the new wards that were created by ZEC.  However, as we move forward, as I have explained, we are now based at the village level.  All the 35 000 villages fall within wards and most of them are well known.  That will take care of the problems that the Hon. Member is alluding to.  From the 15, when we move forward, we will correct that misnomer of boundaries that were criss-crossed because of delimitation.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me assure the Hon. Member again that in order to take care of our delays that can occur, we have agreed and we have been directed by the President that we position in each ward, five tonnes of maize.  This has nothing to do with what we will have assessed.  We will position five tonnes in each of the 1 620 wards which are rural.  We will position those at chieftainship levels so that for those we might miss or those who are under pressure because we might have delayed, they can approach their Chief.  This is our concept of Zunde Ramambo, which we want to make sure that chieftainships in this country can look after those who are under intense pressure because of any delays that we might have.  We have done that in the past and it has worked.  The President has said let us go and position tonnes and we are putting aside 8 100 tonnes so that they can be in every ward in the rural areas.  I thank you.

HON. BAJILA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  When the Speaker was here, he earlier on encouraged that we try to keep the decorum of the House.  My point of order is to request Hon. Moyo and Hon. Coventry to assist in making sure that none of us comes out in photos in a sleeping posture.  I thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  You are out of order Hon. Bajila! 

HON. TSHUMA:  Good afternoon Hon. Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank the Minister for such efforts that they are putting in terms of intervening in this drought situation.  If you realise, his answer was centred on rural wards.  Our urban wards are suffering as well.  We need that intervention like yesterday.  What is Government policy in trying to expedite that whole process, and also come into town because we cannot wait another day longer?  People are dying and we really need assistance like yesterday.  I thank you. 

HON. J. MOYO:  I want to thank Hon. Tshuma for the question.  Madam Speaker Ma’am, yes, we have two separate assessments.  We have rural assessment, which is being done by the Food and Nutrition Council, and we then turn to urban vulnerability, which is also being done by the Food and Nutrition Council.  Right now, they are in the process of finalising the urban vulnerability assessment.  The ZimLAC which we now call livelihoods rather than vulnerability, will fInalise that.  We are aware that even if the market systems work in the urban areas where food will be available in the shops, but there are some food insecure households and families in the urban areas.  That is why we are quickly finalising that assessment and we will have a programme which is based on that assessment. 

HON. HLATYWAYO: The Hon. Minister made reference to a declaration that has since been made on the state of national disaster and it is a good thing that we now have that.  What took us so long, especially given that other countries had already done so in the region for example Malawi and Zambia?  Also, taking into consideration that we are looking at the same pot in terms of the resources that are supposed to come from the development partners, what took us so long?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I am sorry Hon. Member, that question does not arise. 

          HON. MUTSEYAMI:  On a point of order Hon. Madam Speaker.  The point of order is to do with the question concerning the El Nino induced drought.  Is it possible with your indulgence Madam Speaker, that the esteemed Hon. J. Moyo would bring a Ministerial Statement so that the Hon. Members would have ample time to interrogate issues?  I thank you. I brought this suggestion bearing in mind the enthusiasm of the constituencies to know what is happening considering the level of drought that we have. 

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Mutseyami for the point of order.  Hon. Minister, I am sure you have taken note of that.  May you inform the House on when you are going to bring the Ministerial Statement?

          THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. J. MOYO):  Thank you Madam Speaker, it will be a joint Ministerial Statement.  I cannot make the Statement without the Minister of Agriculture, it will be meaningless.  I will consult my colleague whether we can issue a joint Ministerial Statement so that this House has a full picture of what Government is doing.  Given what the President has done to us today, I am sure that the two of us can come and give full Ministerial Statements, but on one issue.  I thank you.

HON. GUMBO: My question is directed to the Acting Minister of Local Government. What is Government policy with regards to the criteria used to select and appoint development companies or individuals who are developers who enter into partnership agreements with the State for the development of urban State land for residential purposes?

THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS: Allow me to thank the Hon Member for the question. Put simply, anyone can partner Government for purposes of development of housing or any other utilities in urban areas and is expected to apply. The Ministry will then consider the application accordingly.

HON. GUMBO: The most unsightly, undeveloped and uninhabitable residential areas in urban areas are on State land. The reason why this is so is because of lack of clarity on the criteria to select land developers. What mechanisms are in place for Government to interrogate and cause to come to account companies which fail to deliver on the mandate that they would have carried through this development contract?

We have companies owned by Hon. Members like Hon. Chikwinya who have failed to deliver on the contracts for development leading to residential areas which are like slumps in cities like Harare. What is Government’s policy in terms of ensuring that there is delivery on these contracts so that people can reside in habitable areas in town?

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gumbo, you were just supposed to ask your question and not to mention names even if Hon Chikwinya is in here. Will you expect her to stand and defend herself?

HON. GUMBO: I am not expecting pleasantries from her. We want answers from Government. These are the land barons who are causing problems in this country and there must be an answer and clarity from Government. That is what we are seeking.

HON. GARWE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me clarify something for the Hon. Member. Every land is in the hands of local authorities and the private sector. Very few pieces of land are under State land. I just wanted to clarify that. Secondly, when people enter into contracts with Government for purposes of development, there are development permits that are issued with conditions. Whosoever fails to meet those conditions, the contract is either cancelled or they sit down and revise the contract. If there are any issues where the developer has failed to perform, the Hon. Member is free to put it in writing so that we can interrogate specifically the areas that he is concerned about. I thank you.

HON. MATEWU: This is a very important issue. We want the Minister to tell us, there is an emergence of land barons in this country and the President of this country has said that we are going to deal with land barons. What is Government doing to deal with this issue of land barons who are causing untold suffering? He says most of the land is owned by local authorities but actually, there are swathes of land that are State owned in urban areas. What are you doing to ensure that people are not deprived by these land barons? I thank you.

*HON. NYABANI: It is now a new question because it is referring to land barons.

HON. GARWE: Land in the majority of local authorities in Zimbabwe is in the hands of local authorities. The local authorities, city fathers and councillors are the ones who are parceling out land illegally to themselves. We have records to that effect. These councillors must be directed to stop giving land to themselves using proxies and then selling it to themselves and to their cronies. It is happening in the local authorities.

Secondly, the land baron issues are borne out of what I have just explained. The people that are being given land irregularly by local authority councillors are the ones that have turned themselves into land barons. However, we have got laws in this country – whoever knows a person who is a land baron and people who have been duped by the land barons should make a police report so that the law takes its course. We do not have arresting or prosecuting powers as Ministry of Local Government. People must generate a case by reporting to the police and the police will do the rest together with the courts. I thank you.

HON. CHIKOMBO: I would want to believe that the Minister is less than candid in his articulation when he said in urban local authorities there is no State land. That is what he said. He said there is no State land in the country. What are you doing to protect the citizens who are being fleeced by these land barons? For example, the indication provided by the originator of the question, that is the fundamental issue that the Minister must address and not give us half answers full of innuendos.

HON. GARWE:  Firstly, I did not say there is no State land in urban areas. I think I was quoted out of context. The majority of the land that is in urban areas is owned by the local authorities. It is a statement of fact. Government is discouraging its citizens from buying land from irregular sellers of land who are land barons who include councillors from urban local authorities.

Secondly, whoever knows anyone who has bought land from a land baron must encourage that person to go and make a police report. That is how we can start processing the prosecution of land barons. I thank you.

*HON. T. MURWIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance, Economic Development and Investment Promotion. People are being troubled because of the exchange rates which are going up on a daily basis. As I speak, the exchange rate is 1:45000. What is Government’s policy on that?

*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I want to thank the Hon. Member who asked about what Government is doing in line with the money that is losing its value. Government is working very hard to see to it that our currency is stabilised. Our policy is to see and try by all means that our currency is strong. There are a lot of steps which are being taken but these steps will be articulated by the Minister of Finance in the shortest period of time. I thank you.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you for your response Hon. Minister. I think the Hon. Minister has answered in full, and that the Minister of Finance will bring a Ministerial Statement, so we should leave it at that.

          *HON. KARENYI: You have heard that the Minister has been promising for a long time now, but as a woman, I think it is long overdue. We have been waiting for long with the Minister saying he will give it to us. Things are not well out there. The Minister should come between today and tomorrow so that we know what he has under his sleeves.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Karenyi. We believe the Minister will come very soon.

          +HON. R. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. What is Government’s position considering the people who are living with disabilities and those on the streets? Some are being abused by people who are physically fit. What is Government doing to bring together those children on the streets so that they do not continue to suffer?

          THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. J. MOYO): I want to thank Hon. Mpofu for the question. Government is aware that there are people who are living on the streets, young people and some of them have disabilities. The Government has endeavoured to work to remove these young people from the streets and in our formulation, working with the First Lady. For instance, we have taken some of them to be housed in facilities that we used to house refugees who were in this country. We are now turning those areas into areas where we can have children removed from the streets. We also are very aware as we enter this food insecure situation caused by El Nino that we have a ranking of those who are vulnerable and that ranking is clearly children who are orphaned and from child headed households.

          Secondly, people with disabilities are on our high list of what we want to do. Thirdly, on that issue of children living on the streets, we can remove the begging aspect and hand them over to be looked after, either by their extended family if we can find them so that we make sure to we keep family units. Our number one thing when we remove children from the streets is to find out if they have relatives. When we find out that they do not have relatives, we will try to put them in foster homes where we can find people who are running these foster homes that are supported by Government, and the children are paid per capita in those foster homes.

          We are also saying for those who are very young, when we remove them from the streets, if there are people who want to adopt them, we will encourage adoption. What we are trying to create is children removed from the streets, they must be looked after by society and the first society is their family, foster homes or we put them for adoption. When this has failed, the last thing that we do is to take them into institutions, and we have institutions where we take these children so that we can look after them.

As to the leadership of those who do this work, we do not discriminate against anybody who has disability. The Public Service Commission makes sure that when we employ people, we do not discriminate against disability, and that is the situation that obtains within the country. We want to make sure that our children are looked after and in terms of our Child Protection Act, we are required to look after these children. I thank you.

Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 68.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE SERVICES IN HURUNGWE CONSTITUENCIES

1. H KANGAUSARU asked the Minister of Health and Child

Care to apprise the House on the Ministry’s plans regarding access to healthcare services in Hurungwe Constituencies.

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD

CARE (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA):  I want to thank Hon. Kangausaru for the question. Hurungwe has a total of 39 health facilities, including one district hospital, which is Karoi Hospital, one mission hospital, which is Chidamoyo Hospital, two rural hospitals – Hurungwe Rural Hospital and Mwami Rural Hospital, seven clinics are currently under construction through the Hurungwe Rural District Council and through devolution funds. Hurungwe District Clinics under construction are;-

Vuti Clinic – Ward 4, Mahwau Clinic Ward 8; Chiedza Clinic Ward 15,  Chiedza Clinic almost complete; Nyangwizhu Clinic, Kahonde Clinic and Karambazungu Clinic Ward 16 and Mashuma Clinic Ward 17.

Hurungwe RDC Wards without Clinics

Ward 11 – Previous hosted Hurungwe Rural Hospital but now in a different ward due to delimitation exercise;

Ward 20 – peri-urban plans for construction at Nyarenda available;

Ward 23 – plans available to construct at Maumbe;

In Ward 4, there is a site that was identified at Chivata where a double blair toilet is in place and nothing else;

In Ward 5, there is no clinic only. A site was identified at Muroyi and Ward 6, there is totally nothing.

Hurungwe RDC is targeting completion of three clinics namely Murerekwa, Tovani and Chinyazvivi.

HON. MURAMBIWA:  On a point of order.  I can see that the Minister responded giving names from Zaka but he is referring to Hurungwe.  The places that he is referring to are found in Zaka Central.  I think there is a mix up on his notes.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Member. Let us hear from Hon. Kangausaru.

HON. KANGAUSARU:  These areas are in Hurungwe.  I thank you Hon. Minister for those names.  They might be similar names but they are there.  My supplementary question is, is it not prudent also that we my increase the medication that is needed?  I urge the Minister if possible that we may have more medicines to add to what is already there.

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Murambiwa, I think you have heard that the names are similar. 

*HON. MURAMBIWA:  Yes, I have but the coincidence is surprising. 

HON. DR. MOMBESHORA: I think that was a suggestion and we will make all effort to make sure that medicines are availed in health facilities there.

CONSTRUCTION OF CLINICS IN WARDS 4, 5 AND 6

2. HON MURAMBIWA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House the Ministry’s plans regarding the construction of clinics in wards without such facilities, for instance wards 4, 5 and 6.

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): Zaka District has a total of 26 health facilities.  Out of these, 24 are rural health centres, one mission hospital and a district hospital.  Government, through PSIP, is constructing two clinics, that is Mbuyamasva and Chiromo health centres.  There are three other health facilities under construction through RDC and devolution funds.  These are Chinyazvivi, Murerekwa and Tovani Clinics. 

However, for Ward 5, the site for the construction of a health facility has been pegged and RDC will construct the health facility once funds are availed.  For Wards 4 and 6, the RDC has not yet conducted a feasibility study to substantiate the construction of the health facilities.

DEPLOYMENT OF STAFF TO MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS WITH A SHORTAGE OF NURSES

3. HON MURAMBIWA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House the Ministry’s plans regarding the deployment of adequate staff to medical institutions affected by shortage of nurses in Zaka North with specific reference to Jichidza Council Clinic,Veza Clinic, Harava Rural Hospital, Mandhloro Clinic and Nhema Clinic.

THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MOMBESHORA): The Ministry of Health and Child Care is currently facing challenges with inadequate numbers of staff.  This has been exacerbated by the Cholera outbreak and building of new facilities which have increased the burden on the staffing levels at institutions, not only in Zaka North Constituency but across the country.

The Health Service Commission (HSC) continues to engage with Treasury, seeking creation of new posts to enable the Ministry to adequately staff both the existing and new health institutions. With reference to the mentioned institutions, Harava Rural Hospital, Veza, Madhloro and Nhema Clinics are adequately staffed in relation to existing staffing norms with the exception of Jichidza Clinic which has one vacant post which will be filled as soon as a cadre is identified

            *HON. MURAMBIWA:  My supplementary question is, is there anything else that you can do Hon. Minister, with reference to Jichidza Council Clinic because there is only one nurse there?  If she is not around, it means people will not get help.  If her child is not feeling well and she rushes to see her child at school, it means there will be no nurse at that station to help people.

*HON. DR. MOMBESHORA:  As I have indicated, we have a challenge that we do not have people who are looking for the nursing jobs in this area.  If we have places with challenges, we would take personnel from other stations with more staff and they will assist.  We are waiting for people to come forward.  If there are any challenges, we engage those in surrounding clinics.  We engage the PMD so that he engages the DMO.

*HON. MURAMBIWA: On a point of clarity, if I got what the Minister said clearly; he said that there are no people looking for jobs.  Where I come from in Zaka North, there are a lot of people who want to be nurses.  If the Minister wants, I can bring the names of the people who are waiting to be employed.

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You can see him and give him the names.

HON. JAMES: Can the Minister explain the policy surrounding the primary counsellors employed by the Ministry paid by the Global Fund. I believe their salary payments are erratic and are a month behind. Could the Minister look at the welfare of this critical important group of health workers working in the HIV testing counselling areas amongst others?

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon James, your question is disregarded.  It is a new question and not a supplementary question.  It is not related to the original question.

MEASURES PUT IN PLACE TO ELECTRIFY SCHOOLS AND CLINICS IN HURUNGWE CONSTITUENCIE

4. HON. KANGAUSARU asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to explain to the House measures which have been put in place by the Ministry to electrify schools and clinics in Hurungwe constituencies, and to further ensure uninterrupted power supply to those consumers already connected.

          THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E MOYO):  Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me thank the Hon Member for raising such a pertinent question.  Allow me to respond as follows:

Electrification of Schools for 2024

For Mashuma Primary School and Mashuma Secondary school, work is in progress.  We are still to start on Huyo, Daware, and Madudzo Secondary School and two additional business centres.

Batanai Primary and Secondary Schools will be installed with solar.  Mauya High and Vuti High Schools will get installations for biogas.

          I will then give a summary of institutions that have since been electrified using the Rural Electrification Fund in Hurungwe District.  We have a total of 101 primary schools that are on the grid, and 66 secondary schools that are on the grid and 16 on solar.  For rural health centres, we have 13 on the grid and six on solar.  For Chiefs, we have seven homesteads that are electrified and one on solar.  On Government extension offices, we have 12 electrified and one on solar. On business centres, we have 28 on the grid. On small scale farms, we have 27 on the grid.  For Village group schemes, we have 40 on the grid and on others we have 24 on the grid and one on solar.  The total number on the grid is 318 and 24 on solar.

          We also have the following institutions which are scheduled for implementation for 2025, 2026, 2027 and 2028.  For 2025 we have Dororowe, Chitenje, Badze Primary Schools and Chikora Secondary School.  For 2026 we have Momba, Menoembwa Primary Schools and Bakwa, Hesketh Park, Kachiva and Chingurunguru Secondary Schools.  For 2027 we have Dambanzara, Goodhope, Kangurunguru, Chitiki, Jenya Primary Schools and Susiness centres.  Then for 2028 we have Kemapondo, Masikati, Manyenyedzi SDA and Mukuyu Primary Schools as well as Doro and Nyama clinics. 

It must be noted that supply disruptions will always be there.  Some planned and some unplanned.  This can however be mitigated by installation of back-up off the Grid systems.  The Government is rolling out a massive project for schools’ electrification through solar, alongside UNDP who are doing the same for clinics.  I thank you.

HON. KANGAUSARU:  My supplementary question after such a detailed explanation is, are you aware that there are other schools that have been electrified, but the poles have fallen down such as Chirariro in Hurungwe East?  What are the measures in place for continuity of supplying electricity as we want to have our rural schools to be at par with urban areas?  There are no transformers.  How many transformers have you given to Hurungwe constituency?  Day in and day out as MPs, we are being asked to assist and sometimes we have to use our own resources.

HON. E. MOYO:  On the refurbishment of broken-down infrastructure, there is a programme that is currently running throughout the country.  Some poles are on the ground, some transformers broke down while others were stolen.  So that programme is ongoing right now.  These refurbishments have been as a result of non-cost-effective targets where incoming revenue is not sufficient to work on these refurbishments.  Currently, this is happening and I am sure the programme will get to your place.  On the issue of transformers, it is a new question, but I think it is in the ambit of the refurbishment exercise which we are carrying out.  Revenue inflows are a factor on the pace at which these refurbishments will be done.

*HON. NYABANI:  What plans do you have for those schools that never had supply connections.  Schools now need to do online lessons so I am wondering what plans you have in place for such places.  Could you consider solar installations for such schools just like installations have been done in clinics?

HON. E. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. The issue of connections is an ongoing exercise and it is a shifting target. Whilst connections are being done, new institutions or houses are being built. So, it is a moving target and it continues to follow that. On the solar in schools, there is a programme which was done initially by REA and some of those solar installations broke down as a result of time. We currently have a programme that is being done in conjunction with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and Development Partners, particularly UNDP.

The same goes for clinics. That programme is also ongoing and a number of schools have already been connected to address the issue of e-learning in schools. If I got the whole context of the question correctly, that is what I would say. Thank you.

ZETDC POLICY ON COMPENSATING INDIVIDUALS WHO BUY THEIR OWN MATERIAL FOR ELECTRICITY CONNECTION

5. HON. GUMEDE asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House what ZETDC policy is on compensating individuals who buy their own material for electricity connection and to state whether it is the policy of government for individuals to buy materials on their own.

THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for the question. The utility has not been able to implement the provision of power infrastructure through the distribution network extension due to incapacitation after many years of a non-cost reflective tariff. The clients then came up with an initiative to replace the equipment and donate to ZETDC at no cost. In response to this initiative, ZETDC puts in place the Customer Supplied Material Scheme (Chapter 12 of 2022 Commercial Guidelines). This would ensure that clients benefit for their contribution of replacing vandalised and faulted equipment through supply of energy units (electricity tokens).

It means that if they have replaced using their own resources, they are not given cash as a refund for that expense. Rather, they are given energy units, which are tokens. It must be noted that the scheme is voluntary and is there to ensure that clients do not wait for long for cable or transformer replacements, at the same time are compensated for their contribution to equipment replacements. This scheme however, does not apply to new connections where the client supplies materials in place of connection fees for this arrangement where there is no compensation.

Compensation is only availed where replacement of existing equipment either faulted or vandalised has been replaced but for new connections, there is no compensation for own materials. I thank you.

+HON. GUMEDE: You said there is a scheme for customer supplied materials. Most people do not have ways of getting back or waiting for what ZESA should do. Therefore, you cannot wait for too long for ZESA to respond, especially when these cables have been stolen. This is not…

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Gumede, ask your question.

+HON. GUMEDE: My question is, what can be done so that people can get service on time since they would have paid and the equipment stolen, which is not their fault? What can be done for people to get the service on time?

+HON. E. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Gumede for the supplementary. Of course, people may stay for too long to get some repairs. If they are only repairs without replacement of the equipment that would have been stolen, it does not take a lot of time. If we are taking a lot of time, you can engage with our offices. If they are not sure of when they are coming, you can take that matter to a higher office or up to my level and we help each other. Where we have equipment that has been stolen, there are some factors that contribute such as our cashflow. Now that we have a bit of tariff, you will find that we are no longer taking time as what we used to do before. If you realise that they are still taking time, please inform us on time. Thank you.

+HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, is the Minister aware that there is no electricity at Government institutions, including youths centres, hospitals and Registry Offices? Now that there is use of electrical machines and the Minister is aware that the budget has not been disbursed to ministries, that is why we are not able to solve the problem…

*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you still asking a question?

+HON. S. SITHOLE: My question is, what you are saying is, you remove the prepaid meters from the Government offices?

          +THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO):  Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am, and I also want to thank Hon. Sithole for his question.  These issues differ from place to place because some of these offices have gone for more than three years without paying what they owe the Government, yet they have received the budget.  Some of those offices are in arrears for this year, and they can engage our Ministry so that they can pay later as they receive their budget.  The issue of prepaid meters is what the Government is recommending.  This is what we have on the ground that if people do not pay ZESA, then ZESA will not be able to pay its service providers.  At the end, you find that the whole system will collapse.  Let those in the offices go and check what could be the problem.  If there is need to engage the Ministry of Finance, we can engage the Ministry of Finance and see how best we can solve that problem. 

          +HON. MAHLANGU:  Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am, how is the Minister going to help those that would have lost their gadgets and end up buying the cables and replace the cables?

          +THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question, but I think the question has been responded to in the initial response.   The names of those who would have contributed should be taken to ZEDC so that they can be given electricity tokens because they are not given money.  For those who would have contributed to new connections, they do not qualify to be compensated; it becomes a donation to ZESA Company.   If the gadgets were damaged or stolen, then they paid through ZESA tokens.

          +HON. GUMEDE: Thank you Madam Speaker. People cannot afford to make those contributions, as they are buying electricity by cash, kindly please, replace those stollen cables than for people to contribute. The biggest challenge is that people do not have hard cash to replace the stolen cables.  My appeal is that kindly make proper supply of this equipment.  At times, people stay for six months or a year without electricity. This is what forces them to contribute so that they can make that donation.  That is what people are lamenting on.

          +HON. E. MOYO:  Thank you Hon. Speaker, it is all about the cashflows, do we have the cash at that moment?  There is a desire state of affairs and the existing state of affairs.  The ideal situation is that once there is some damages on our lines, then tomorrow we can rectify, but that is not what happens because of the real situation.  People should be patient with us as we try to rectify this problem because our infrastructure in outdated and we are trying to upgrade it.  Right now, you realise that in Manhize, we are coming up with the steel and that will be easier for us to get material so that we can make it locally available.  It was all coming from abroad, right now, we are planning to have this made in Zimbabwe. 

STATE OF BINGA-KAROI ROAD

 

9. HON. CUMANZALA asked the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain to the House why the Binga-Karoi Road has stalled given the salience of the road in boosting access to Tourism facilities and outside markets by the people of the Zambezi Valley.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. SACCO):  Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The Karoi-Binga Road is very important for both local communities as well as the economic activities including tourism.  Government is committed to the continued upgrading and construction of the Karoi-Binga Road from gravel to an all-weather standard surface.

Under the Second Republic, works on the Karoi-Binga Road resumed in 2019 with construction of 10 kilometres completed from the 50-kilometre peg to 60 kilometre peg in Zvipane Business Centre.  The newly constructed road section was completed in 2020 and is open to traffic. 

Furthermore, my Ministry flighted a tender for the rehabilitation of an additional 30 kilometres in Mashonaland West, with already one contractor awarded 10 kilometres.  The tenders for the other two remaining lots of 10 kilometres each are now at an advanced stage of finalisation.  Similarly, ten kilometres were recently completed in 2023 from zero kilometre peg to ten-kilometre peg on the Binga-Bumi Road section in Matabeleland North Province. 

Whilst Government is progressing with upgrading the road under direct funding from Treasury, options for private sector participation are also being pursued.  Currently, a proposal for loan financing is being considered.  I so submit. 

HON. CUMANZALA:  I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the response.  Are you aware that besides being an economic game changer, this road is also a political game changer in the sense that this has been a promise that has been made by several governments including the colonial government? When we got independence, the promise was also made by the Government which was led by President Mugabe. Now, we have the Second Republic, the road is still under construction. This is a big issue for the Zambezi Valley community. Do you have anything to say about this?

          HON. SACCO: I would like to thank Hon. Cumanzala for his question. I would not like to respond on behalf of the colonial regime because I believe that is long gone. They were known very well for oppressing the people of this country and giving false promises. Allow me to leave it at that. On the other hand, the Second Republic is known for giving promises and keeping those promises. As you yourself have said, it is a political game changer and this is very correct because under the leadership of His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa, our visionary President, we are leaving no one and no place behind. Therefore, that road is important for us as Government of the day led ably by His Excellency the President.

          You can concur with me that work on this road commenced after the Second Republic, which means that our President, our Minister of Transport, and Government is very aware of the need to resuscitate these roads to allow those communities to benefit and promote tourism and also allow the political opportunities for the Government of the day and the ruling ZANU PF to gain mileage in that area, as you might be aware that ZANU PF won recently in Binga through the work of His Excellency the President.

USE OF FLOOD LIGHTS BY MOTORISTS ON HIGHWAYS

10. HON. GUMEDE asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development what the Ministry is doing to bring to book motorists who use flood lights on high ways thereby causing accidents.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. SACCO):  The Hon. Member’s point of interest is particularly on the prevalence of road accidents caused by extended headlights mounted on vehicles. My Ministry, through Statutory Instrument 129 of 2015, banned the mounting of additional headlights by motorists. This legal instrument stipulates that motorists who wish to make any modifications on their cars should first get approval from authorities.

          We have noted with serious concern that additional headlights which some motorists have fitted on their cars cannot be dipped thereby compromising the vision of other drivers, which causes fatal collisions that could be easily avoided if motorists comply with the prescribed road traffic regulation. These lights are so intense that the headlight glare blinds other motorists, thereby contributing to road traffic accidents. Motorists who are using these lights are therefore committing a serious offence and will face the consequences of violating traffic laws as both ZRP and VID are instructed to impound these vehicles with additional lights from the roads. I so submit.

REHABILITATION OF AIRPORT AND CECIL ROADS

11. HON. GUMEDE asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House the Ministry’s plans to rehabilitate Airport and Cecil Roads in Bulawayo.

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. SACCO):  I would like to thank the Hon. Member for raising a very pertinent question around the rehabilitation of Airport and Cecil Roads in Bulawayo. It is my pleasure to inform Hon. Members that the rehabilitation of Cecil Road has commenced. A contractor was engaged to carry out the rehabilitation work and the scope under the current tender is 10km. The contractor opened up a section of two km which has been closed off from use by the public. Progress has been hampered by a backlog in the settlement of Interim Payment Certificate (IPC) to contractors.

The contractor is on standby and ready to resume work once significant payment towards the outstanding IPCs is made. Furthermore, routine maintenance is being carried out on the Airport Road in Bulawayo by my Ministry’s department of Roads. As the road extends beyond Bulawayo municipal boundary, it becomes the Bulawayo-Nkayi Road. Works for the upgrading of this road have commenced on the Bulawayo end of the road. A contractor is currently on the ground and recently opened two kms of surface road to traffic. The total scope for the current tender on this one is 14km and of the remaining 12kms, 3kms is ready for surfacing and with the remaining 9kms at various stages of subgrade and base layer preparation.

REHABILITATION OF BULAWAYO-VIC FALLS ROAD AND NKAI-LUPANE ROAD

12. 12. HON. P. MAHLANGU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House the plans being put in place to rehabilitate the following roads; —

(a) Bulawayo to Victoria Falls Highway in light of the high rate of accidents on this road; and

(b) Nkayi-Lupane gravel road

THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. SACCO):  Allow me to respond to Hon Mahlangu’s question. The Bulawayo-Victoria Falls Road has outlived its design life and hence requires rehabilitation. As a result of the aged pavement routine maintenance, that is pothole patching is no longer the appropriate solution to maintain the road to a trafficable state. To restore good riding quality, my department of Roads has embarked on a phased approach of the rehabilitation of the road.

The rehabilitation is targeting the worst sections, taking into account availed resources. The current tender involves the rehabilitation of 32 km and patching of the entire length of 435 km as a short-term solution. Of this total scope, 10,5 km of the rehabilitated road has been opened to traffic while pothole patching has covered 170 km. Rehabilitation will be done on the next stretch whose length will depend on the finances availed for the purpose.

My Ministry also has plans to upgrade the rest of the road through a Public Private Partnership, and we are at the preliminary negotiations stage with investors that have expressed interest. For the House’s information, I will be touring the road from Victoria Falls to Bulawayo on Friday to get an on-sight appreciation of the condition of the roads muchida musingadi, I am going to tour the road and that is what is happening – [AN HON. MEMBER: Unopenga.] – excuse me, can you withdraw unopenga – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, please withdraw that statement which you said muchida musingade.

HON. SACCO: I withdraw Madam Speaker.

As the Ministry of Transport, we are going to tour that road on Friday from Victoria Falls to Bulawayo, to get more information on what is required, and we are working on a Private Public Partnership to work on the road from Beitbridge to Bulawayo and from Bulawayo to Victoria Falls.

On the Nkayi-Lupane road, this is a very important route from Kwekwe to Nkayi to Lupane which greatly shortens the distance travelled by those going to Victoria Falls. The road is currently in gravel state and needs repair. Five kilometres of the road were upgraded to safest standards in 2022. The rest of the road which is 120 km is to be periodically graded and spot re-gravelled until such a time when funding is availed for the upgrading of this road. We are also scouting for potential investors to finance the project. I so submit.

HON. BAJILA: I want to thank the Minister for the response. The Bulawayo-Victoria Falls Road is largely affected by haulage trucks that use that road. Without a plan to reduce the movement of haulage trucks on that road, its rehabilitation may not be sustainable. Are there plans in place to resuscitate the railway line from Bulawayo to Victoria Falls so that they can be reduction in the movement of haulage trucks and therefore sustainable rehabilitation of Bulawayo-Victoria Falls?

HON. SACCO: Thank you Hon. Member for a very pertinent question. It is true that without working on the railways repairing that road will be a short-term solution as all the freight, especially the coal being transported, will result in the new road being damaged once again. Therefore, as a Ministry, we are at an advanced stage in negotiations with potential partners to work on the Hwange-Bulawayo-Chikwalakwala-Maputo Corridor.

That rail requires rehabilitation and we are at an advanced stage on coming up with an agreement so that that rail can be resuscitated which, will then result in the road from Bulawayo to Victoria Falls, once repaired to have a longer life. This road is very important to us as a country because a lot of our tourism in Victoria Falls is from driving tourists who come from South Africa and our numbers have gone down. So, we are working on both the National Railways of Zimbabwe railway line as well as the road from Beitbridge to Bulawayo to Victoria Falls.

[Time limit]

HON. KAMBUZUMA: I move that we add an additional 20 minutes to clear our long outstanding questions.

HON. HAMAUSWA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

⁺HON. MAHLANGU: My supplementary question to the Minister is, I remember the response that we have heard from the Minister is the one that we were given three years ago pertaining to Nkayi Road. He indicated that Nkayi Road is in the process of being rehabilitated and all the material is in place. Today, he is saying if funds permit, they will prioritise it. When is this road going to be prioritised because every year, we get the same response that if funds permit, they will look into that road? We are talking of a road that is so dilapidated. It is in a deplorable state.

          THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. SACCO):  Thank you very much.  I think I had responded to say that when funds are available, the road shall be worked on.  You refer to three years ago, unfortunately I cannot respond to that because I was not yet in the office as Deputy Minister, but let me just comment that all roads in Zimbabwe are important to us.  Nyika inovakwa nevene vayo and therefore, there is no road that is not important to us.

          Hon. Member, you should bear with us.  Our country Zimbabwe is under serious pressure mainly because we cannot access lines of credit like other countries.  If you go to South Africa, Botswana and Namibia, they get lines of credit from international financial institutions but because in this country we have sanctions on our country, we cannot access funding in the same manner as other countries do.  So, this is a fact, therefore we rely on what we raise from Treasury.

          HON. BONDA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Member?

          HON. BONDA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  The Ministry is an infinitum body.  It continues from where somebody left.  I do not think it is proper for the Minister to say three years ago he was not there because there is always a handover and takeover, and it is actually continuous.  There is no way you can say I was not there three years back and then you are starting from where it is.  It is infinitum, it is continuous.  I thank you.

          THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  I think the Hon. Minister is correct because he said three years ago he was not in office and it is true – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -  Let us allow the Hon. Minister to continue.

          HON. SACCO:  Madam Speaker, three years ago, this country was still under sanctions.  So, let me continue with my response because what caused us to fail to do that road three years ago is the same reason why today we are struggling to do all the roads in the country.  Let me say that as a Ministry, we are thinking out of the box even though some Zimbabweans got on an airplane to New York to ask for sanctions against their own country.  We still, as patriotic Zimbabweans, are thinking outside the box on how we can solve these problems.  Those who are making noise in the opposition are the same people who asked for sanctions on this country and it is hypocrisy for them to ask for results.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Members, we had requested for an extension of 20 minutes but you are wasting that opportunity.  You want to waste that opportunity without making any progress.

          HON. ZVAIPA:  On a point of order Madam Speaker.

          *THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  What is your point of order for?

          *HON. ZVAIPA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I heard the Deputy Minister say that we were affected by sanctions three years ago but we have got roads like Leopold Takawira which is being destroyed but that road was in a good state.  Why is it other roads are not being rehabilitated while we are destroying the roads that are in perfect condition?

          HON. SACCO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Let me conclude by saying that as a Ministry, we are seized with finding solutions to the problems that we are facing with our infrastructure, whether it is roads, railways or air transport.  We are looking outside the box to partner with potential investors under Build Operate Transfer or PPP arrangements where investors will build a road and recover their money from tolling and weigh bridges on those roads. If we rely on Treasury alone, we will not manage to repair our infrastructure across the country, but with the new dispensation, the thinking is to think outside the box and find investors who are willing to work with us to move our country forward. So, my assurance to the Hon. Member is that no one and no place shall be left behind as our great visionary leader, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa always says nyika inovakwa nevene vayo.  I so submit.    

          HON. V. MOYO:  Supplementary question Mr. Speaker Sir.  Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.  I want to thank the Hon. Minster for his response.  My supplementary regards the Victoria Falls-Bulawayo Road.  Part of the road just after Hwange towards Victoria Falls, there was some reconstruction of the road and the contractor has however left the site.  I wanted to find out when funds will be made available so that he can as well finish up on that construction project.

          The road in question is in a very bad state.  May I hasten to say that the number of accidents that are being witnessed on that road is partly because of its bad state.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to mention the mantra of saying ‘leaving no one and no place behind’.  Sometime in October, a certain man from Masvingo Province twitted about the road in the province and two months after that he was thanking the Minister.  May we also give prominence to the roads in Matabeleland.  It is our plea.  The road is in a very bad state.  I wish I could go with him as he will make his tour next week.  I so submit.

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MACHINGURA):  Was that a question?

          HON. V. MOYO:  There is a part of the road in Hwange and the contractor has left the site for the past three months.

          HON. SACCO:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I think the Hon. Member might not have been in the House when I was giving a response.  I did not say I will be going next week.  I said I will be going on Friday but if he wants an invitation, he is more than welcome to join me so that we can look at it together.

          Ultimately Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no segregation where development is concerned and that is why our Ministry is conducting a nationwide tour to look at sensitive roads across the country from Chipinge, Mt. Selinda, Hwange, Mukumbura Growth Point to Plumtree.  We are touring the whole country to make an assessment of all the roads that need work and finding solutions so that these works can be done. So, I submit that there is no segregation where development is concerned and I would like to say to the Hon. Member, you are most welcome to attend.  You just need to ask.  I so submit.

REFURBISHMENT OF THE MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR CHITUNGWIZA AQUATIC COMPLEX

18. HON. MAZHINDU asked the Minister of Sport, Recreation, Arts and Culture the Ministry’s plans regarding the refurbishment of the multi-million United States Dollar Chitungwiza Aquatic Complex which has been in a state of abandonment since the 1995 All Africa games.

THE MINISTER OF SPORTS, RECREATION, ARTS AND CULTURE (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  The Ministry of Sport, Recreating has worked with the Harare Swimming Board and the following are the recommendations.

•     The filtration plant is not functional and will require major renovations
•     Most of the valves at the plant are now working and need to be replaced.
•     The computerised system of the filtration plant is also not functional
•     The competition pool needs to be fully renovated, the training pool and baby pool can hold water for swimming activities to take place.

With this being noted Hon. Speaker, the ministry is now working to put together prioritised areas to go to Ministry of Finance to ask for specific funding to be able to upgrade and rejuvenate the Aquatic Centre.  We have had a few corporates coming to us and we are in continuous dialogue to find out which would be the best joint venture, whether it will be more on a PPP (Public Private Partnerships) or BOT (Build Operate and Transfer), I submit Hon. Speaker Sir.

          HON. MAZHINDU: Any time frame from the Minister?

           HON. COVENTRY: I am sorry I did not get the question.

          HON. MAZHINDU: Any time frames?

HON. COVENTRY: At this point, I am sitting down with the Ministry of Finance on Monday and this is one of the agenda points, so I can come back to the House with more specific timeframes once I know if we will be allocated a specific budget for this project.  I thank you.

USE OF OWN RESOURCES BY ZIMBABWE TENNIS PLAYERS

19. HON. BAJILA asked the Minister of Sports, Arts and Recreation to explain to the House why tennis players who represent Zimbabwe in international tournaments often use their own resources for their travel and participation.

THE MINISTER OF SPORTS, RECREATION, ARTS AND CULTURE (HON. COVENTRY):  Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir and I thank the Hon. Member for the question.  First of all, Hon. Speaker Sir, the National Sport and Recreation Policy underscores that it is mandatory for all National Sports Associations (NSAs) to have a source of funding and resource mobilisation mechanism and strategy.  These mobilisation strategies assist them to fund their participation in events at various levels of competition tiers.  The policy further states that NSAs shall work in close consultation with the Government when bidding, hosting and participation in regional, continental and international competitions.

The National Associations work closely with the SRC, I can always request funds if needed.  When these National Associations request funds, the National Associations must be in good standing with the SRC for SRC to then process that request and send it to the Ministry.  As far as I am aware, we have not received any request from this National Association for additional funds on any international tours.

HON. BAJILA: If the Hon. Minister could clarify what constitutes being in good standing with the Sports and Recreation Commission?

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, if the Hon. Member pleases, I can come back with the full list of the good governance standing, it comes from having audited accounts as well as holding a regular AGM, it is a long list.  I do  not remember all of them at the top of my head.  If it pleases the Hon. Member, I am happy to bring that back and share with himself and the House.

STATE OF THE COUNTRY’S STADIA TO HOST LEAGUE AND INTERNATIONAL GAMES

20. HON. C. MOYO asked the Minister of Sport, Arts and Recreation to inform the House on the state of preparedness of the country’s stadia to host Premier Soccer League, CAF Champions League and Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) World Cup 2026 Qualifier games.

THE MINISTER OF SPORTS, RECREATION, ARTS AND CULTURE (HON. COVENTRY):  Thank you Hon. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for his question. Regarding the PSL, it has already satisfied a number of facilities and these are Rufaro Stadium in Harare Province, Luveve Stadium in Bulawayo Province, Mandava Stadium in Midlands Province, Nyamhunga Stadium in Mashonaland West Province, Green Fuel Arena in Manicaland Province, Sakubva Stadium in Manicaland Province, Barbourfields Stadium in Bulawayo Province, Colliery Stadium in Matabeleland North Province, Baoab Stadium in Mashonaland West Province, Wadzanayi Stadium Mashonaland Central Province, Bata Stadium in Midlands Province and that is ongoing. 

With regards to the National Sports Stadium, the Ministry is seized with the resuscitation to enable the facility to host CAF and FIFA sanctioned events. Today, the progress at this point is that the water reticulation is in progress, and with that coming along nicely, we are waiting for additional funding to be released for that process to finish. 

Doing styles and electronic ticketing machines have been procured and have been delivered and are waiting for installation.  There is need to be a smart adjustment to our gates for entry for those to fit in nicely. The turf will be replaced and that is in progress, we have spoken to a number of the teams and players as well as the stakeholder.  They will prefer to have natural grass so that is now what we are working on. 

Bucket seats have been procured by a third party and are in the process of being made, and we want to thank that third party for coming forward to assist Government through PPP. We are having somewhat other corporates approaching the Ministry wanting to help with various projects, and we are in discussions on the way forward as there are a number of them, and we are trying to ensure that all of the stakeholders can work together for the same end result. That being the goal as opposed to be ready for us to be able to play at home, we are working towards that if you are confident as we are today, but we are lagging a little bit behind on some of the funds that need to be paid urgently which will be spoken about with the Finance Ministry next week.

We are also working closely with the City Council and private partners that own the stadia and to be potentially ready as well in the next few months.  I thank you.

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE

STATISTICS ON THE COVERAGE ON RURAL ELECTRIFICATION AGENCY

6. HON. JERE asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to provide statistics on the coverage on Rural electrification Agency in the Country Province by Province since inception of REA.

           THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO):  Since inception, REA has electrified the following institutions as shown in Tables 1, 2, and 3:

TABLE 1: STATISTICS ON THE ELECTRIFICATION STATUS OF RURAL INSTITUTIONS DONE BY REF AS AT 1 FEBRUARY 2024

Province	Primary Schools	Secondary Schools	RHC/ Clinics	Govt. Ext Offices	Chieftainships		Business centres	Small scale Farms	Villages	Others	Total Electrified  to Date
					Grid	Solar
Manicaland	534	277	195	76	34	0	241	78	354	173	1962
Mashonaland Central	395	185	115	47	26	2	144	146	53	130	1243
Mashonaland East	337	194	119	39	32	2	127	186	198	194	1428
Mashonaland West	420	178	81	41	29	4	73	224	132	70	1252
Masvingo	374	230	153	75	34	1	190	53	190	117	1417
Matebelelend  North	323	140	93	65	35	7	115	27	24	81	910
Matebeleland South	320	127	92	53	31	0	152	22	136	83	1016
Midlands	268	149	107	37	39	5	132	117	193	88	1135
TOTAL	2971	1480	955	433	260	21	1174	853	1280	936	10363

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TABLE 2:  SOLAR STATUS AS AT 29 FEBRUARY 2024

Province	Solar Mini Grid	Mobile Solar Units	Total
Manicaland	43	82	125
Mashonaland Central	48	38	86
Mashonaland East	60	60	120
Mashonaland West	60	45	105
Masvingo	65	32	97
Matebeleland North	78	55	133
Matebeleland South	50	69	119
Midlands	66	47	113
Bulawayo	0	9	9
Harare	1	-	1
Total	471	437	908

 

TABLE 3:  STATUS OF INSTITUTIONAL BIOGAS DIGESTER PLANTS CONSTRUCTED BY REF AS AT 29 FEBRUARY 2024

 

Province	Number of Biogas plants	Number of Domestic Biogas Plants	Total Number of Biogas Commissioned	Comments
Manicaland	15	90	105	Domestic biogas digesters are mainly being done under the Climate Adaption Water and Energy Programme (CAWEP) with funding from the UK’s Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) and the Government of Zimbabwe. These are part of the 90 biogas digesters to be part of the 90 biogas digesters to be constructed through the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), in the collaboration with the Ministry of Environment, Climate and Wildlife, Rural Electrification Fund, Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Development, Chipinge District and Hakwata community.
Mashonaland Central	14	2	16
Mashonaland East	6*	5	11	Includes the 1 Commercial biogas digester plant at Kotwa in Mudzi District
Mashonaland West	8	-	8
Masvingo	13	30	43
Matebeleland North	14	1	15
Matebeleland South	16	1	17
Midlands	14*	-	14	Includes the 2 Commercial biogas digesters plant at Mimosa Mine in Zvishavane District & Unki Mine in Shurugwi District.
Harare	6*	-	6	Includes one Commercial biogas at HIT completed in October 2017
Total	106	129	235

 

ADEQUACY OF THE LEVY CHARGED BY REA

7. HON. JERE: Asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to explain to the House whether the 6% levy charged by REA is adequate to achieve 100% accessibility to power by 2025 in line with the country’s 2030 vision which talks about power to all by 2030.

THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO): The 6%is not adequate to electrify the whole rural Zimbabwe by 2030.  Currently the levy billed monthly is equivalent to US2.5 million.  To achieve Visio 2030, we need about US2 billion according to the Rural Energy Master Plan.  See the table below for the shortfall: 

Current RFE’s Funding Position

	ZWL	USD
REA MONTHLY REVENUE	55 000, 000,000	2,500,000
REA ANNUAL REVENUE	660,0000,000,000	30,000,000
TO ELECTRIFY 100% OF ZIMBABWE RURAL (BUDGET)		2 000,000,000
ANNUAL REVENUE TO COMPLETE WITHIN TARGET		286,000,000
FUNDING DEFICIT/YEAR		256,000,000

 

To argument the shortfall REF is frantically seeking concessional loan facilities to fund the R.E Programme.  If accessed, these will enable bulk supply of project materials and speed up the electrification.  It is also seeking partnerships and or grants to implement renewable energy projects.

REF has the plan in place, the skills and manpower, tools and equipment to meet the vision 2030 target, provided they get adequate funding.

ZERA LICENCING MODEL BASED ON SALES AND SIZE

8. HON. JERE to ask the Minister of Energy and Power Development, to explain to the House why ZERA does not come up with a licensing model based on sales and size as opposed to a flat fee of 25 000 USD per firm so that the authority can in turn channel proceeds towards  the REA.

THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. E. MOYO): The Ministry has received proposals for volume-based licensing from ZERA and is reviewing these proposals in addition to other models.

Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order No. 68.

On the motion of HON. KAMBUZUMA seconded by HON. HAMAUSWA, the House adjourned at Twenty-Five Minutes to Six o’clock. p.m.