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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 12 April 2017 43-56

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Wednesday, 12^th April, 2017

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

          HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, with the leave of the House, may I request that Question Time, both with and without notice, be suspended until all the Orders of the Day on today’s Order Paper have been dealt with.  The Ministers are attending a funeral and they may delay coming.

          HON. GONESE: I object Mr. Speaker.  My objection is that as an august House, we must plan.  In terms of the sitting calendar, we were supposed to have adjourned last week to the 2^nd of May, 2017.  It was the Executive which moved that the House sits this week on account of them having important Bills.  The reason why we are here is at the behest of the Executive – [HON. CHITEMBWE: Shut up!] -

          THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): Order,

order, can you withdraw the word shut up, that is unparliamentary?

          HON. CHITEMBWE:  I withdraw.

          HON. GONESE:  Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am simply making

the point that this particular sitting was motivated by the desire of the Executive for them to move Government business.  By the same token, one would have expected the right hand to know what the left hand is doing.  Whilst we do appreciate that a national hero has passed on - but in terms of timing, we have had funerals which have been conducted at the Heroes Acre at 1000 hours.  I believe, firstly, in terms of the day on which to mourn our national hero and also in respect of the time, members of the Executive who also sit in the Politburo should have been aware of the dynamics.

          Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate that those members of the

Executive should have been aware of the dynamics that today is a Wednesday and that there is Question Time.  So, in terms of the scheduling of the time of the funeral, they should have been cognisant of that.  So, my point Mr. Speaker is that members of the Executive should appreciate that there is the business of Parliament, today is a

Wednesday.  I also notice that for some reason, there is no live coverage of Question Time today.   I do not know whether it is by coincidence or not because today is Wednesday and ZTV must have been aware that today there is Question Time.  So, we are not in agreement to stand over Question Time because as we speak, the Hon. Chief Whip has not indicated to us at what time the Ministers are going to come.  They have showed some disdain for this august House, the time we have now is supposed to be devoted to Question Time.

          Mr. Speaker, as we speak, motions were not supposed to be the priority because the reason why we adjourned to this week was because the Executive wanted us to discuss Government Bills and the Ministers are not even here.  I want to reiterate that in terms of timing, they should not have done that, either they should have scheduled the funeral for tomorrow because this is something within their domain or else they should have conducted the funeral at 1000 hours so that by 1300 hours everything is done and completed and then the Ministers would have been here.  So, we are not in agreement with the motion that we must stand over Question Time.

If the Ministers are not here, then our view is that we must simply adjourn the House and then we sit when it is convenient for the Executive who should have been here in the first place, then tomorrow we can then do Government business.  This House was specifically adjourned to this week to deal with matters which they considered a priority and all of a sudden they have decided that it is not a priority anymore and they scheduled other programmes.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, Hon. Gonese, you are

repeating yourself time and again, can you just finish?

           HON. GONESE:  My final prayer is that we are not in agreement.

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Your concerns are noted but there are circumstances beyond human control such as what has befallen on this nation today where we have lost one of our heroes.  It is not that it was done intentionally – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] -

          HON. HOLDER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.  The

Constitution forces us to give respect to our national heroes – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I move that we have a moment of silence regarding our departed hero.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Holder, there is no point of

order because I had already made a ruling towards that; there is not more debate on that motion.

          After the Chief Whips had conferred.

          HON. GONESE:  Mr. Speaker, after hearing submissions from my counterpart, the Government Chief Whip, on reflection I am going to withdraw my objection.  However, I just want it to be placed on record that in future, when we plan our things, we must take cognisance of all important activities, in particular the sitting of this august House so that we do not waste the taxpayers’ money.  Primarily for the reason that we do not want to waste the taxpayers’ money, we can then agree with his motion and we can proceed with the motions.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

           HON. MATUKE:  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and

2 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

          HON. RUNGANI:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE REPORT OF THE

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC

WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING ON SERVICE DELIVERY BY

THE CITY OF HARARE ON THE ORDER PAPER

HON. ZINDI:  Thank you Hon. Speaker.  I move that the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing on Service Delivery by the City of Harare which was superseded by the end of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 73. I thank you.

          HON. MAONDERA:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

          HON. MATUKE:  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 4 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 8 has been disposed of.

          HON. KWARAMBA:  I second.

          Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

RESUSCITATION OF SHABANIE-MASHAVA MINES

          HON. HOLDER:  I move the motion standing in my name that

this House:

RECALLING that the Shabanie – Mashava Mines (SMM) closed more than 15 years ago and prejudiced over two thousand employees due to non-payment of salaries and wages, poor service delivery as well as deteriorating living standards as a result of poor maintenance of basic facilities such as sanitation, sewer and water reticulation system, roads and infrastructure among others;

NOTING that the credit status of the company has been getting worse since the closure of the mine;

COGNISANT that the company was a big contributor to the economy and that it is deteriorating;

CONCERNED at the consequences of not being reopened;

WORRIED that the workers may never get what is due to them and also that the prospects of the re-opening of the mine may never dawn;

NOW, THEREFORE, this House resolves that: -

1. Through the Government, a board be set to run the affairs of the

Mines through a properly structured administration;

1. The Board secures a new investor to resuscitate the Mines and that it be revived in line with dictates of the ZIM ASSET Blueprint;
2. The welfare of the Mining community and the workers of these mines be improved; and
3. The flagship of the town be raised.

HON. MANDIPAKA:   I second.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Let me start by saying a quote from Martin Luther King Junior that “our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.”  Mr. Speaker, as we are all aware, Shabanie Mine closed more than 15 years ago.  I want to say to you that it employed more than 5500 people and contributed more than $40 million every year to the GDP.  Mr. Speaker Sir, we are all aware that Shabanie-Mashava Mines was owned by British people for over 70 years.  Gaths Mine was established in 1914 and Shabanie Mine was established in 1917.  Mr. Speaker, every year this mine would contribute a lot to the GDP but since it has been closed, it was put under reconstruction, which never did much to the resuscitation of Shabanie Mine.  Shabanie Mine had more than 26 subsidiary companies – they were SMM Holdings, Turnall Holdings (in which SMM has 61% shareholding);  Steelnet (Zimbabwe) Ltd (61%); Chemspec (Pvt)

Ltd(100%);  Cernol Chemicals (Pvt) Ltd (100% owned by Chemspec )

FSI Trading Pvt. Ltd (100% SMM); Tube and Pipe Pvt. Ltd (division of

Steelnet); Hastt Zimbabwe Ltd (Division of Steelnet); BMA Fasteners

(division of Steelnet); General Belting Ltd (51% SMM); General

Beltings (division of General Beltings Ltd) and Pigott and Maskew (division of General Beltings Ltd).  All these companies belonged to

Shabanie Mine.

          Mr. Speaker, I just want to take you back a bit to how this mine got into trouble.  There has never been a discussion by the Directors of

Shabanie Mine or plans to say that they are shutting down Shabanie Mine   I moved this motion because we always talk about growing the cake.

In my Constituency, Zvishavane-Ngezi, that is where Shabanie

Mine is actually situated.  We need to remember that this mine closed in 2004 and we are in 2017.  It actually has more than 42 million tonnes of asbestos fibre which is still underground and can still be mined.  Mr. Speaker, I am telling you all these things because of the living conditions and the workers that were prejudiced of their salaries after working for Shabanie Mine for such a long time and have not yet received any payment.

           THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Members, can we

hear the Hon. Member in silence please.

          HON. HOLDER:  Mr. Speaker, the sanitary facilities, the infrastructure, the roads and everything is deteriorating.  When Shabanie Mine was sold, I just want this House to understand a few things that I have actually come across.  TNN Holdings owned SMM Holdings and SMM Holdings is a company which is in the UK’s part of the British Virgin Islands.  Then there is SMM Holdings Zimbabwe.  Now, TNN put an advert Mr. Speaker.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, order.  This subject is quite important for all of us but I wonder why we come here and then we start making noise.  We are Hon. Members and we should be respectful. - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]- Both sides are making noise, particularly to my left at the front here where you are Hon. Chamisa.  It is not you but your colleagues around there are making a lot of noise.  So, maybe I would ask Hon. Holder to come infront here so that we all hear what you are debating.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  Can I start again so that this House can get to understand where I am coming from?

THE ACTING SPEAKER:  We cannot give them the benefit of the doubt.  Continue from where you left.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  As we all know, Shabanie-Mashava Mines closed in 2004.  It was a mine that was established in 1914 and because it was a mine that was established in 1914 – Gaths Mine was established in 1914 and Shabanie Mine was established in 1917.  Mr. Speaker, Shabanie Mine employed more than 5 500 workers who have since lost their jobs.  The reason why I moved this motion is that we always talk about growing the cake, but we need to understand that the moment that we become silent, things that matter in our lives begin to perish.

The reason why I have actually come as Member of Parliament for

Zvishavane-Ngezi is because I represent the people.  ‘MP’ stands for ‘man of the people’.  When you are man of the people, you have to bring the people’s issues to the House.  I say that because Shabanie Mine was established in 1917 and it was run by British people for over 70 years.  Because it was run by British people for over 70 years, now that an indigenous Zimbabwean purchased this mine or bought shares in this mine, this mine is now stagnant.  It is not working, it is dead – the infrastructure and the housing is going down.  The roads are going down and the workers have never received their salaries and others have since passed on when they never received any of their payments.

We talk about this economy that the country needs to revive its economy.  Most of Shabanie mines material that it mines, they would actually make roofing, asbestos piping for the sewers and most of this country is actually built from what came from Shabanie-Mashava Mines.  There are more than 42 million tonnes underground which can be utilised and produced in order for this country to come back onto its feet.

There were 26 subsidiary companies namely; FSI, MidSec Security, Belt and Fasteners, Pigot and Maskew and several others and they were including Tunnel Asbestos.  Now Mr. Speaker, I just wanted you to understand that, T and N Holdings owned SMM Holdings and now there is SMM Holdings in the UK and SSM Holdings in Zimbabwe.  T and N was actually getting rid of core assets and because it was getting rid of core assets, it put an advert in the London Financial Times that it was getting rid of core assets around the world.  Now, what has happened is that, I have a letter here dated the 28^th of September, 1995.

It was to do with the arrangement of the person who is Mutumwa

Mawere who was the person who actually bought shares into SMM Holdings.  This mine was put under reconstruction.  When it was put under reconstruction, that mine was supposed to be resuscitated but instead, we dissolved a full board and after dissolving the full board, you put one person who has no idea whatsoever of running that mine and has no experience in running it.  He was just an administrator.

          I am saying this because it pains me so much when I see that this mine has not moved an inch.  People are perishing because of the living standards.  As long as the mine does not operate, it will depreciate.

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order at the back.  There is a lot of movement and a lot of talking there.  You may continue Hon. Holder.

HON. HOLDER:  SMM Holdings used to produce enough asbestos that would go to Turnall Asbestos and they would produce pipes, roofing material and stuff like that.  Up to now, most of the houses that you see within the country….

HON. MLISWA:  I have a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.  My point of order is out of this Constitution.  I have just come from the Heroes Acre and I want to read our Constitution’s Preamble to you.  It says, “United in our diversity by our own common desire for freedom, justice, equality and our own heroic resistance to colonialism, racism and all forms of domination and oppression; exalting the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives during the Chimurenga and national liberation struggles; honouring our fore bearers and compatriots who toured for the progress of our country.”  The last paragraph of the Preamble says, “in imploring the guidance support of the Almighty, here make this Constitution and commit ourselves to its fundamental law of our beloved country.”   I am coming from the Heroes Acre and I am very disappointed that Members of Parliament are not respecting the fallen heroes of this country.  I do not care which political party you belong to but we have committed ourselves to this Constitution - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- and it is about time.  We are here sitting in this House because of the blood which was shed and in our diversity, we must be able to respect that and we must be above that - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-  I am disappointed that even His Excellency recognised the Members of Parliament in his salutation.  Where are we?

Are you here to represent your own agendas or you are here to represent the people who voted for you?  I am saddened as Zimbabweans that we are now and we will not anywhere.   The late Joshua Nkomo and Tongogara are there.  Why can you not respect them?  You must transcend beyond political affiliation and rise above personal issues that you have and be Zimbabweans.   We will not accept this - [HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

          THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order, order please.  Order, order?  Order Hon. Members!  Yes, we hear you Hon. Mliswa but as you are aware, the House had to sit and some Hon. Members had to respect that.  We hear were you are coming from and it is important that we respect heroes – [HON. MLISWA:  The House sits at 1415 hours and the proceedings were at 1000hrs.] – Order! - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order! Order! Order please! Order please! Order please!

- [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] - Hon. Mliswa! Order! Order please!  Hon. Mliswa, what could have been a good gesture might end up being spoiled – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-        THE ACTING SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  Let us not be

excited.  Let us not forget that we are in an honourable House.  Hon. Mliswa, a good gesture must end up as a good gesture. Let us not over

do it.

*HON. MURAI:  On a point of order Mr. Speaker, we are black people and we share the same culture.  All of us respect the dead but as we are respecting the dead people, no one should judge or take stock of how we mourn and show our respect.  It does not help for someone to show us how to mourn.  We grieve differently.  Otherwise we are grieving more than those who are at the Heroes’ Acre.  So, we should be respected because we grieve differently.

*THE ACTING SPEAKER:  We have heard what you have said. Let us move on.

HON. HOLDER:  Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.  I tried to raise that point of order and Hon. Mliswa is only getting it.  I am glad that you mentioned that.

Let me get back to my debate.  My debate is all about Shabani Mine.  Shabanie Mine closed in 2004 and the problem is that if this mine is going to remain closed, it continues to deteriorate.  We have had good rains this year.  The water levels have now since risen and they are rising to a point whereby if that water gets into certain levels, that is the end of that mine.  We will not mine asbestos again.  That mine is actually 1040 metres deep. From 1004, which is over a kilometre deep.  If you look at it, the whole mine is flooded but every month, Shabanie Mine has to pay for electricity which is being used to pump out the water so that when the mine will be resuscitated, we will be able to go in and mine.  We need to know that Shabanie Mine, SMM would produce asbestos fibre and give it to Turnall Asbestos that would produce products.  Those products would be sent to South Africa where SMM would have a warehouse.  They would sell the products and send back the money.

Shabanie Asbestos Sales (SAS) department would market this asbestos.  Once it has marketed the asbestos, it would send the money to SMM.  I do not know what the system is that it is MMCZ which should control most of these sales.

Mr. Speaker Sir, since 2004, there are a number of things that we need to understand and that the mine was put under reconstruction so that it could be resuscitated.  When the reconstruction fell apart, this mine was given to ZMDC and the ZMDC does not have the capacity to mine that mine.  That mine was run by the British for more than 70 years and now we have a local person who was able to run that mine but the biggest problem we had is that, when this mine was taken over, it had a lot of debts.  It had $30 million worth of stocks in stock, it had $30 million that it was owed and the full asset value for the whole mine was $60 million.  That $60 million is what T&N had sold this mine for, but the idea of selling the mine – I have a letter with me here Mr. Speaker:

28^th September, 1995.

1. Mawere Esq.

World Bank/IFC

1801 K Street NW

Washington DC 29433

 

Dear Mr. Mawere

 

Shabanie and Mashaba Mines (Pvt) Limited

 

I refer to your letters of 6^th and 17^th September concerning the above. 

 

Your unsolicited approach appears to be based upon a misunderstanding of this Company’s announced plans to make a number of disposals of non-core activities during the next two years or so.  Nonetheless, I have asked David Carruthers, our Deputy Chairman, to arrange a meeting with you to discuss your interest and the precise nature of your proposal.  Mr. Curruthers will contact you shortly to arrange such a meeting.

Yours Sincerely

1. F. N. Hope

Executive Chairman.

T&N owned SMM, SMM is part of the British Virgin Islands which is SMM UK and SMM Zimbabwe.  What had happened here Mr.

Speaker is that when he saw the advertisement in the London Financial

Times, he mentioned that he had interest in purchasing, because he helped finance a few companies whilst he was working for the World Bank.  This letter shows that when he made arrangements, he flew to London and met with Mr. Carruthers and he said that he was interested in purchasing Shabanie Mine.  During the discussions, he said go and make an offer where he, from New York, flew to London and after the meeting, flew to South Africa.  When he flew to South Africa, he put a team together and sent a team back to Zimbabwe to come and do due diligence on the mine.  They found out that the mine’s assets were $60 million then, and that was in 1995.

That time we had not yet dollarized, we were still in Zimbabwean dollar era.  Mr. Speaker, what we need to understand is, $30 million was owed to Shabanie Mine, $30 million was in stocks and they were owing a lot of people money but they were still running and managing to pay people’s salaries and managed to contribute towards the GDP.  Mr. Speaker, I am saying all this because I want you to understand that when that transpired, the then Minister of Justice, put this mine under reconstruction.  When it was put under reconstruction, it had 26 subsidiary companies.  Out of the 26 subsidiary companies, all of them have been striped and sold.  FSI is gone, Turnall Asbestos is gone, MD Security is gone and Belt@Fasteners is gone.  The mine nothing - it is just a skeleton.  We have 42 million tonnes of asbestos sitting under - ground.  A research was done Mr. Speaker, to show that this fibre has no disease at all.  It is a very clean fibre and I have the record here.  There is nothing wrong with that fibre.  Any Member who feels that fibre has a problem, must read this book and follow up and debate on the facts based on what was produced – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible

interjections.] – It is written here.

 THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, you may proceed

Honourable.

HON. HOLDER:  You will have your time.  I will submit it.  Mr.

Speaker, what we need to understand is that in 1996, SMM, Turnall

Asbestos, Tube and Pipe were all part of Shabanie Mine.  Now, Shabanie Mine, everything is deteriorating and the water level is coming up.  Every month they are getting a bill to pay ZESA for pumping the water out but at the end of the day, you have got over 5 500 workers that have never gotten their money, that have worked for most of their lives for Shabanie Mine.  Others have perished and still have not received their money.

What we need to understand is that when something goes bad, you will find that the flies will go there.  I am saying this because you can see that the reconstruction where a single person makes a decision and dissolve the whole board that had to contribute to ensure that the mine was running.  This mine ran long before most of the Hon. Members were born but now it is a sad and sorry site because I represent that constituency.  I always come across the question, is this mine ever going to open?  Mr. Speaker, many Hon. Members here were busy grumbling and saying that there is no asbestos that does not have a disease, but most of their houses are roofed with asbestos and the sewer and water pipes are asbestos.  It is only now we are beginning to change.

I am saying, we need to now play an important part and get this mine to resuscitate so that it could employ over 10 thousand people.  We can produce and export asbestos and make sure that things are being done - the living standards of our people, that is a sleeping giant in this country, Mr. Speaker.  I feel that if we do not do something as a matter of urgency – it was actually better off the mine was being run by Mawere.  We would be able to control him and tell him these are the laws.  The problem is that there are many accusations that have never been proved.

          This mine had been going on for years.  The previous Parliament; my previous predecessors, the Mines and Energy Portfolio Committee then, made recommendations and none of that has been followed until today.  What has actually happened is that these mines have now been turned into schools and universities.  Mashava is Great Zimbabwe University and Zvishavane is Midlands State University.  We need to get these mines to be resuscitated, people would get what belongs to them and we would be able to make sure that at least our country; the economy will improve foreign currency inflows.

What we need to understand is that when this mine was taken over and put under reconstruction, the directors of this mine had no plans or intentions of closing this mine.  There was never any of those plans but since it was taken over, put under reconstruction, it never worked but continues to strip the company down.  There is nothing left; it is now just a shell.  We might be still saying we have got a mine but it is just an old structure with nothing in it.

          I would like to say, it is sad to take somebody who does not even know how to run a mine and give him the mine to run.  If I were to take a security guard who is at the gate and make him a manager of a certain entity, it is not going to work.  I am bound to make sure that this mine is going to collapse.

          Mr. Speaker, I know a lot of Hon. Members have got a lot of things to say regarding Shabanie Mine but I take particular interest because I come from that area.  There is a lot of research that I have done but I need to clarify some other issues regarding Zvishavane and

Mashava mines. Is it going to open up again or is it not going to open up again no one knows.  Mr. Speaker, let us look at Mutumwa Mawere.  Mutumwa Mawere is actually a person who was born in Gutu.  He is not a foreigner, so we cannot even talk about indigenisation there.  He is part and parcel of us. – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is a criminal that one.] – We may say he is a criminal or whatever but I want you to understand that until you have been proven guilty, you are not guilty.

          There are certain issues that have happened but I am sure there is a better way of resolving certain issues and making sure that that mine is resuscitated so that it can benefit, not only the people of Zvishavane but the people of Zimbabwe.  A lot of companies were established through SMM Holdings and now SMM Holdings is at a standstill.  Mr. Speaker, let me hasten to say that a lot of issues transpired in the past but there was never any externalisation that took place, or else he would have been convicted.  Yes, SMM Holdings was owing a lot of money, but it was managing to pay its workers, contribute to the fiscus and it was producing.

I have this diagram which shows the water levels at Zvishavane mine. (Showing a diagram to the House).  They are currently sitting on 570 metres; it is full of water going down.  a lot of equipment has perished underground.  If it exceeds that 570 metres, then there is no way Shabanie Mine can ever open again.  Mr. Speaker, this would be one of the saddest that would ever happen to this country, if we do not open that mine.  With those few words, I thank you for allowing me to debate on Shabanie Mine.

           HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for allowing me

to shed my opinion on what took place and what is taking place at

Mashava and Shabanie Mines.  What is happening at Mashava and Shabanie Mines is indeed a tragedy.  I have had the opportunity of visiting those two mines when I was Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development.  The social decadence which my colleague had not mentioned is so tragic.

          When we talk about child marriages, they are so common in that area at the moment, simply because the parents no longer have any income to depend on.  What they have had to do is to marry out their daughters so that they could subsist.  When you go into the area where they refer to people as makorokoza, I had the opportunity of stopping along the Mashava River and there were makorokoza who were digging.  There were hoes all over.  I  stopped and spoke to them and only to discover that these are trained technicians and engineers who were actually digging the holes.  I am sure my colleague can bear me witness.

          When I wanted to find out why they were makorokoza, they said we were stopped from working, we have no more income coming from the mine and what we are trying to do is to survive on this.  They were actually scrounging for gold in that area.  The worst tragedy is when Government decided to transfer Shabanie-Mashava Mines to ZMDC.  I agree with the sentiments that were expressed by the former speaker because ZMDC has over 25 projects.  Indeed, quoting the words of the current Minister of Mines and Mining Development, he said ‘it is the biggest investor in mining’ but they do not have even a single mine that is operational.

Not only are we talking about Mashava and Shabanie, there is Sabi gold just down the road.  It is a very big mine, they are attempting right now to make it working but it has not been working for the past five or six years, now it is running.  Most of the mines that fall under ZMDC are not operating.  Therefore, it is clear that ZMDC cannot revive Mashava and Shabanie Mines.

          When it comes to accommodation, part of the accommodation in Mashava and Zvishavane is being occupied by a chrome mine which is just up the road.  People are bused in and out of Mashava and Shabanie.  However, what had befallen those workers who were living in those houses, nobody cares.  All they did was to kick them out and they are renting those houses out, almost a 1000 houses to the nearest mines that is operating up the road towards Mberengwa.

          Mr. Speaker, when one looks at the way we have looked – we have kept quite not only at Mashava and Shabanie but we have also kept quiet about diamond mining.  For how long shall we keep quiet until all the mines that have been operating stop operating?  I think we have to raise our heads and say what is going on?  What needs to be done?  We need to rescue the residents of Shabanie and Mashava because as far as the asbestos in that area is concerned, it was well expressed that there is a market for white asbestos in East Asia.  However, we are failing to exploit what is underground in order for us to be able to export it to East Asia.  The market is ready; the buyers are there but - what-ever happened, the Mawere saga, I heard one member shouting that he externalised, that is not an issue – who has not externalised in this country, any businessman has externalised.  How then do you externalise and then you shut a mine and people begin to suffer.  We are actually using the United States Dollar, so what so you want to externalise.

          Mr. Speaker, the interjector better wait for his own opportunity to debate because he was also an externaliser as well and I do not want to refer to that.  It is sad that a person who was put in charge, I am not going to mention their name, at Mashava and Zvishavane, had no expertise at all to look after a mine.  After he was being paid large sums of money for doing next to nothing and unfortunately, some of the companies that were stripped, the money was going towards paying salaries of the executives and the directors. They are still being paid by monies that is being created by actually stripping some of the subsidiary companies and selling those assets, which in itself is quite sad.

          Indeed, Mr. Speaker, if we are going to pay service to indigenisation when an owner who is an indigenous is deprived of operating his mines when he has got shares. I think we should be able to ask ourselves, then what.  The right to property under our Constitution, if there was any case he had to answer, he should have answered it and gone to prison but he should have retained his properties.  There was no need for expropriation that would actually victimise not only himself but his properties. We are all aware that Mr. Mawere is a very successful miner and business man in South Africa that is not disputed.

Therefore, for us to be shouting that he has got a criminal mind.  We have more criminals sitting in this Parliament than Mawere, in my own opinion.  When we look at it we have got certain stories that we read in papers that indicate that some of us are criminals more than Mawere. The one who is shouting also was in prison a few months ago.

          HON. MLISWA: On a point of order! Mr. Speaker Sir, he said that we have some criminals sitting in this House.  Every Member of Parliament sits when they have no criminal record.  So, it is important for him to tell us which criminals are sitting in this Parliament or he withdraws his statement.  If his party has criminals then that is different. I am not a criminal and I got in as a Member of Parliament after the realisation that I do not have a criminal record.  Can he please substantiate his claim – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! I did not hear

him mention your name but he said there are criminals in this Chamber.  So, probably what you could have asked was for him to withdraw that there are criminals in this Chamber not particularly mentioning your name.

          HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, from this Chamber, we

have a former Member of Parliament who is serving a 10 year sentence in Chikurubi – but he was sitting with us here.  The fact that he had not been convicted – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.]- We have a Member of Parliament who is in custody right now, for trying to sell a pangolin – [Laughter.] - and he is frm this Chamber.

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Sibanda,

you are a Chief Whip and you just leave your sit to go there and start making noise.  Why do you do that, we expect you to be supervising this House.

          Hon. Members, we are here to debate substance.  If you feel you object to whatever has been put across, there will be a chance for you to raise – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.]- Order, order! There is a Chair and there is a limit to whatever we do.  So, I think this is my second warning to you as much as I would want you to debate but please let us not get excited. So, let the Hon. Member debate in silence.  If anyone is objecting to whatever he has raised, I will give you the floor to object.

           HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I think what is

important here is the social welfare of the residence of Mashava and Shabanie, the rest could be rhetoric and my appeal is that Government should review its decision to actually pack Shabanie-Mashava with ZMDC and they should actually be looking at alternative of who is willing to buy those companies and resuscitate them.  So, that is a contribution towards the resuscitation of our own economy.  I believe, Mr. Speaker, with those words, I have said what has to be said.  Those who are guilty know it. I thank you.

          THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF

JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to make clear an issue which if you make a ruling let us all be clear that you have made a ruling to the effect that we accept, which I personally do not accept that we have criminals in the Chamber.  I thought it was necessary for the Hon. Member, because those who have been found guilty are not in the

Chamber.  It is my belief that all Hon. Members in the House are honourable and they are not criminals.  I believe that the Hon. Member should withdraw so that we do not have a record in history where we accept that we continued with a House with criminals. I do think it is proper.  However, if Mr. Speaker, you so rule that you think that there are criminals in this room, I do not agree but you have the right to do so.

            THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I agree with you Leader of the

House.  It is my oversight on that one, I should have asked him to withdraw that particular point but I had only mentioned the Mliswa issue not going further to ask him to withdraw the rest of his statement.  If the

Hon. Member could withdraw that part where you said some Hon.

Members here are criminals.

          HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, I said some…

          THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, I heard you.  It is on record – [HON. CHIMNAIKIRE: Ko kana ndisingade mugondiitei? I will walk out of the House.] - Order, order! Hon. Chimanikire, address the Chair please!

          HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, if I made a mention of

those words, I withdraw.  I thank you.

          HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  The issue that

we are discussing at this moment is something that involves the lives of 5 000 workers and their dependants, so maybe we are talking of 25 000 people having been affected by the closure of this mine.  What is important is not to dwell on the past, we need to have a way forward.  What is the way forward – we have highly qualified journey-men who are there at the mine. They have nowhere to go and the life of the mine has another 50 years.  It can go for another 50 years.  So those are the things that we must look at, we must then do a due diligence and say what is the way forward, how do we do these things.

          The other point that I want to emphasise is that the fibre at Zvishavane-Mashava is clean fibre; it can be used for schools. It is actually the source of our development. When you have got a house in the rural areas with asbestos, when you have a farm and you want to do irrigation, you use asbestos pipes. They are cheaper and they last longer.

So, it is something that is critical in the development of Zimbabwe. As Parliament, what are our plans for the way forward of this company?  

          My first observation is we cannot put Zvishavane/Mashava under ZMDC. It is a non starter. ZMDC is irrelevant in this structure because this is an operating company. If we say we raise something like $20 million, the company will start operating and tomorrow they will be making a profit. From the recommendations of the Hon. Member, how do we set up a board to run this company? It is my belief that most of the board members must be former workers and former managers of this company, because they know how this company has been running. The owner of this company has been staying in UK and he would only come here once a year. It has always been the management that has been running this company.

          I used to go there and I know how these things happened. I know the value of that mine. It is a mine that can be turned into life tomorrow and we can earn some money for the country. The other thing that is very important is that when we have these big mines and we have some problems, it is important to go and call some of the workers who were retired and were doing critical jobs. They know how to do that thing and they will turn it around overnight. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

          I am in the mining industry and as an employer we say anyone who reaches the age of 55 years must be retired. That is your prime time when you know everything and that is the major problem that we have in our mining industry. There are some people who were working on that mine who reached 55 years who were retired and who still have the capacity to resuscitate the mine which will benefit everybody. Some people just say things out of ignorance. All the houses in our rural areas are made out of asbestos from Zvishavane. If you go to Glen Norah, before extension, all those houses had no ceiling and it was all asbestos.

          So, there are some people and because they do not belong to the country, they always do not like the products of their country. They are saying they are toxic and this and that. It is all lies. It is that asbestos from Europe which has got fibre that affects our lungs. This fibre from Zvishavane is very clean. If people do not know, it is always better to keep quiet and then we will not know that you are an ignorant person. –

[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-

          The other thing that we must look at now as an immediate measure is how to look after our people and improve the quality of the lives of our people. The Ministry of Social Welfare must move in and say let us organise food for these households because they are not employed and they are not farming anywhere. We organise them in clusters or in wards and say let us give them some food before the company operates and even to give them some soft loans, because that company will never operate and make a loss. It is there and it is very clear.

          Mr. Speaker Sir, mines or any mineral only has got value when it is taken out of the ground. You cannot say it has value when it is underground it is underground mixing with water. We must always thrive to bring our minerals out of the ground and put them on the market so that we benefit our country. When we have this chance to discuss about ZMDC, we must look at several mines that are under the umbrella of ZMDC which are not operating.

I was talking to one worker for ZMDC and he said ZMDC means Zimbabwe Mining Destruction Corporation. – [Laughter.] - That was his mind because he realised that it is not benefiting anyone. The mining industry per se, we must come up with a new vehicle that is going to benefit our miners because 4 000 miners are Zimbabweans. They are the sons and daughters of Zimbabwe and they can be able to benefit. There are many gold mines that are under ZMDC where people are going everyday during the night to do mining underground and come out early in the morning.

So, whenever there is a problem with a mine, we must look for a vehicle, a new company that looks after that mine and benefit the people. When you go to Zvishavane, like what the Hon. Member, mentioned, the infrastructure there is just in a sorry state. The roads have potholes all over and the houses have broken window panes. We must always value the infrastructure. That is why the Government put the

Minister of Infrastructure. Infrastructure is the basis of development.

Rome was not built in a day but it is standing on seven hills. What is standing on seven hills is the infrastructure which was built there by the Romans.

Mr. Speaker Sir, in conclusion I feel that we need to have a way forward. We need to have command mining. The Vice President is here, he succeeded in command farming and I think he is going succeed in command mining. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - The first example must be Shabanie-Mashava Mine. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have a few words to add on the motion which was raised by Hon. Holder, looking at Mashava and Shabanie Mine. As a representative of the workers, I am the President of Zimbabwe Federation Trade Union. I am pained that our workers are living in poverty when the wealth is underground. We want to uplift our economy but we are pulling it down.

HON. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, it is important that we know that these things are going on record. Hon. Chinotimba says I am speaking representing the workers and this is going on record. Other worker organisations will also come to represent their workers. He is an Hon.

Member of Parliament and he cannot address representing members of his union. He should withdraw that. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible

interjections.]-

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):

Order, order please. I think Hon. Chinotimba is trying to make you realise that he has a role to play on the lives of the workers as the President of that union. It is not that he is coming to introduce himself, but he is only giving reference. You may continue Hon. Chinotimba.

*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We represent all the people who are workers. Workers are people, so we represent the people. Some people can say that asbestos has been banned, but all our cars are fibres and all the blocks that are used are not plastic or rubber but it is fibre. We cannot go to Brazil and look for fibre when we have fibre here yet we do not have money to import that fibre.  We go out of our way going to other countries leaving our own resources here in Zimbabwe.  We know that probably we went wrong somewhere but I think the leaders should sit down with Mawere and see how we can go about it.  Yes, we know that the case went through the courts and people can claim their backdated money but I think even if you send people like myself to go and engage Mawere so that we start production, I will do it without even going anywhere else.  We all make mistakes but we should be able to forgive and not hold grudges.  Zimbabwe is a peace loving country and the President talks about reconciliation and I think we should reconcile.  This is an open thing.  We know that all the houses that we have are being roofed with fibre and not plastic.  If you go to

Hon. Mashayamombe’s constituency or visit Mabvuku area, it is all fibre which is being used.  So, where is the mistake?

          As the people’s representatives, what challenges us is that people are suffering and living in poverty when they have things in their hands.  This is not a political gimmick but a real issue, which we should look at in order to make our country a better place to live in.    We are saying that it is now long overdue and the mine is supposed to be operational.  Mashava and Shabanie should be reopened and be given to people who are capable of resuscitating it.  Government is the people but we should give it to people who have the powers for it to work.  If we are to look at the past, Smith killed thousands of people but we reconciled with him.  Why did we not murder him?  So, we should also forgive our own people so that our things work.  We can be emotional when we talk about this but people out there are suffering.

          During the struggle, there was a song which we used to sing and the words were kutambura kwedu kwazonyanya.

          THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON:  Order Hon. Member,

you are not allowed to sing in the House.

          HON. CHINOTIMBA:  Thank you Madam Speaker, I am not

singing but I am talking about the revolution.  Mashava did not just employ people in Masvingo but also people from Midlands, Manicaland, Mashonaland Central and even people from Harare.  It is most likely that the managers were from other provinces.  So, the people of Zimbabwe should not suffer when we have our own things which can be revived even tomorrow.  With the indulgence of the Vice President of the people who is here, we plead with him to take up this issue to Cabinet so that whatever went wrong can be rectified and Mashava mine can be reopened.  We cannot say we do not have asbestos while our cars brakes are made of fibre.

With these few words, I am pleading with the Vice President to heed the cries of the people so that we help each other as MPs to engage those who are capable of revamping our economy.

          HON. MATUKE:  I move that the debate do now I adjourn.

          HON. GONESE:  I object.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA):  Madam Speaker, yesterday I accepted a request from Hon. Chamisa when I would have done my Bill yesterday.  He requested me to defer the Bill to today and I accepted because he wanted to put some amendments which now appear on the Order Paper.  I am now requesting that the House goes into Committee to deal with those.  I could have done it yesterday but I complied with the wishes of requesition.  I would like that to be done then we revert to the debate if they so wish.

          HON. MATUKE:  Madam Speaker, I had already moved that the debate be adjourned.

          HON. GONESE:  There is further debate.  Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I think we want, by consensus, to do things that are helpful to all of us.  The first point which I was not going to raise is that today is a Wednesday and Private Members’ business takes precedence until until 6.05 p.m.  It was not a point which I was going to raise, but I think if we have to go that route - it was not my intention Madam Speaker to go that route.  Earlier on in the morning, Madam Speaker, after some consultations, we came to an amicable arrangement whereby, we said that we would allow motions to be debated.  That is the reason why the motion by Hon. Holder was moved. It was through an amicable discussion and I withdrew the objection which I had raised earlier on after my colleague, the Government Chief Whip, had asked me to withdraw and I acceded to his request.

In that same spirit, Madam Speaker, it is my request that at this point in time; I was simply saying that your office had indicated that Hon. Gabbuza, in particular, and one or two other members were going to debate.  All we are asking is, let those members debate.  Once they are done, it also allows us to consider those amendments brought by

Hon. Chamisa – I have indicated to the Hon. Vice President that Hon. Chamisa had even spoken to the Hon. Vice President and indicated to him that he had some commitment with the Chief Justice and he is coming back.  I also want other members to acquaint themselves because we assumed that Hon. Chamisa was going to be present to motivate some of the amendments.

After my discussion with the Hon. Vice President, he indicated that there are some amendments which he is agreeable to, but in respect of those amendments which he may not accede to, it is my belief Madam Speaker, that we have got every right to debate those amendments and to try and motivate the whole House so that the Hon. Vice President can consider them.  For that reason, Madam Speaker, I had only asked that we agree, but if we cannot agree, we do not have to invoke the provisions of the Standing Orders which provide that until 6.05 p.m it is

Private Member’s Business, but otherwise I was not going to go that route.  I was simply saying let us agree in terms of the cooperation which he had exhibited earlier on just like Hon. Gabbuza and two other members and thereafter, we go to Government business even before 6.05

p.m.  That is all we are asking Madam Speaker.  That is my position and our position on this side of the House.

THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF

JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA):  I hear the Hon. Member.  I think if we want to develop a culture where one side will take advantage just because we are complying, then we can use our numbers not to comply and just be antagonistic throughout.  It is proper.

Yesterday, I could have done my Bill, but Hon. Chamisa appealed to me not to proceed.  When I came in, I left Heroes ahead of time to come and do the Bill.  When I came here, Hon. Chamisa came to me and asked me to delay for another 20 minutes.  I have now delayed for 35 minutes.  He told me he was going to see the Chief Justice and I told him the Chief Justice has just come back because we came about the same time.  I told him he could rush there and see him and he hoped he would be back within 20 minutes.

I went through with Hon. Chamisa, the amendments which I agreed to, which he has put forward and those which I did not agree to.  He said if the 20 minutes passed before he came, I should move ahead with the Bill.  If the Hon. Member wants to evoke the provisions he has mentioned, he has that right to do so, but it also means tomorrow we will do the same and there will be confrontations in this House and those who have got numbers will take the day.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  I put the question that the…

HON. GONESE:  On a point of order, Madam Speaker – [HON.

MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]- the provisions of the Standing

Orders…

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Members.  I think now I am following the Parliament Procedure…

HON. GONESE:  No, it is a point of order Madam Speaker; it is a point of order.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Where is the point of order coming from?

HON. GONESE:  My point of order is that you cannot put the question because at this point in time, the Hon. Vice President who appreciates the rules…

THE TEMPORY SPEAKER:  Order, order Hon. Gonese!

HON. GONESE:  Yes it is a point of order Hon. Speaker.  It is not right to put the question.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Gonese, order

Hon. Marumahoko.  I have not given the ruling.  You asked for a point of order in the first place, so I have not responded.  I am still to respond.

Yes, I am putting the question because the procedure of Parliament allows me to see how many people are supporting the adjournment of the debate or not – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.]– Hon. Gonese order, order!

HON. GONESE:  It is not about numbers.  It is about the rules at this point in time Madam Speaker.  So you cannot put the question because it is not about the numbers.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Yes, but we had already…

HON. GONESE:  The terms of numbers does not apply at this point in time, Madam Speaker.  We are dealing with the rules.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Gonese!  Hon.

Gonese, the rules are clear.

HON. GONESE:  Which rule are you following Madam Speaker?  Which rule are you using to put the question to the House in terms of numbers?

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Hon. Gonese, the rules are

clear.  We agreed in the beginning of this session that we are moving from the Private Members day to these motions.

HON. GONESE:  No, we did not.  At which point?  I was in this

House and there was no such agreement.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  We did.

HON. GONESE:  No because what I know is that we agreed to suspend Question Time for motions to be moved.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  So now we are already

debating motions.  We passed that stage.

HON. MARUMAHOKO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  When I

was in the Chair, Hon. Chamisa came to me and asked for 30 minutes to be out and that he would be back before 30 minutes.  We agreed that we were going to delay for 30 minutes to accommodate him, but now it is more than 30 minutes.  Thank you.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  So, as the Chair, I am putting the question to see how many people are in support of the adjournment of this debate.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume:  Thursday, 13^th April, 2017

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

HON. MATUKE:  Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 9 to 49, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 50 is disposed of.

HON. MUKWANGWARIWA:  I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

COMMITTEE STAGE

JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT (EASE OF SETTLING

COMMERCIAL AND OTHER DISPUTES) BILL [H. B. 4, 2016] Fiftieth Order read:  Committee Stage: Judicial Laws Amendment (Ease of Settling Commercial and Other Disputes) Bill [H.B. 4, 2016].

House in Committee.

Clause 1 put and agreed to.

On Clause 2:

                             HON. GONESE on behalf of (HON. CHAMISA): I move

the amendment standing in my name that in line 20 on page 2 of the Bill, to insert after the phrase “field of,” the words “criminal law.”

Between lines 22 and 23 on page 2 of the Bill, to insert the following subsection, the remaining subsections being renumbered accordingly:

“(3) Every specialised division of the High Court may exercise the general jurisdiction of the High Court in every matter that is brought before it.”

THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,

LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): Hon. Chairman, with regards to Clause 2, the amendment sought to Clause 2 is accepted since the Clause also mentions the family division although it was strictly not necessary to do so because there already is in existence, a family law division and a criminal division of the High Court, whose existence is confirmed and validated by the savings clause in Clause 5.

So, the second amendment is not accepted on Clause 2.  The amendment in Clause 2 which you have just put Hon. Chairman is not accepted because the division of the High Court is not new but simply specialised arms of the High Court exercising the same jurisdiction as the High Court.  To say so explicitly, is to suggest that pre-existing divisions of the High Court such as the criminal and family divisions could not exercise general jurisdiction of the High Court, which is simply not the case.  So, I do not accept the amendment under Clause 2 proposed by the Hon. Member.

Amendment to Clause 2 put and negatived.

Clause 2, put and agreed to.

Clauses 3 and 4 put and agreed to.

On Clause 5:

THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,

LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): I put the amendment standing in my name that on

page 3 of the Bill, in Clause 5, delete paragraphs (c) and (d) and substitute:

(c)  the Special Court for Income Tax Appeals constituted in terms of

Section 64 of the Income Tax Act [Chapter 26:06]; and

• the Intellectual Property Tribunal constituted in terms of the

Intellectual Property Tribunal Act [Chapter 26:08]; and

• the criminal, civil and family law divisions of the High Court established before the commencement of this Act.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): Hon. Chairman Sir, on Clause 5, this amendment by Hon. Chamisa is not acceptable because the criminal and family law divisions of the High Court are not new divisions of the High Court to be created by virtue of the new Section 46 (a) to be inserted by this Bill.  They were created long ago and their validity is reaffirmed by Clause 5.  We do not want any suggestion to be made that these divisions were new courts by re-establishing them under the new section 46 (a) of the Bill.  What are we saying about the validity of those divisions since the new Constitution came into force?  We cannot throw the validity of these divisions into confusion, which is why Clause 5 is introduced by the words “for the avoidance of doubt.”  So, with that explanation Hon.

Chairman, I do not accept the proposed amendment to Clause 5.

          Amendment by Hon. Chamisa to Clause 5 put and negatived.

          Amendment to Clause 5 by the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs put and agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, put and agreed to.

          Clause 6 put and agreed to.

          On Clause 7:

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA):  Mr. Speaker Sir, with regard to the proposed amendment to Clause 7, this amendment is not accepted.  Clause 7 is entirely dependent on Clause 6 and the one cannot be read without the other.  Remember that this clause is inserted for the avoidance of doubt to encourage litigants to use our Magistrates Courts instead of the High

Court to settle their commercial disputes.  This rebranding of our Magistrates Courts as commercial courts when they are hearing commercial disputes was one of the key features recommended to us by the Judicial Services Commission as part of the ease of doing business.

Therefore Hon. Chair, I do not accept the recommended amendment to Clause 7.

          Amendment to Clause 7 put and negatived.

          Clause 7, put and agreed to.

          Clauses 9 and 10 put and agreed to.

          On Clause 11,

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGAWA):  Hon. Chair, with regard to this amendment, this amendment is not acceptable.  I am surprised that the Hon. Member seems to be more concerned about the human rights of his fellow legal practitioners than for the human rights of poor and needy litigants, many of whom cannot qualify for legal aid.

Remember, the small claims courts are the courts of first resort for poor litigants with small claims who cannot afford legal services.  What recourse will these people have if they must face lawyers who can outsmart them against a deep pocketed defendant who resists even a very small claim?  This is for the destruction of the very idea of the small claims courts and this is why lawyers were kept out of them in the first place.  The fact is, poor litigants cannot afford legal services on the same terms as rich litigants.  So, the Government must have the power to level the playing field.

If you ask me why we need to fix a lower tariff of costs for small claims court, I will remind you that the Law Society itself only fixes minimum tariffs for the benefit of its members and not maximum tariffs for the benefit of the consumers of legal services.  This is unfair to the poor and legally unrepresented people of Zimbabwe.  The right to legal representation under Section 69 of the Constitution does not mean the right to legal representation at the highest cost for the litigants.  For those reasons Hon. Chair, I do not accept the proposed amendment.

HON. GONESE:  Thank you Hon. Chair. I just wanted to seek clarification from the Hon. Vice President because I was looking at the whole motivation of getting legal practitioners having the right of audience in the small claims court.  That is arising from the provisions of the new Constitution, which gives rights to the individual to have legal representation in all tribunals and I understood that to be the motivation for the insertion of this clause.

I just wanted the Hon. Vice President to clarify for me what the import of that clause or that proviso is because the way it appears to me is that we have a situation Hon. Chair, where ordinarily litigants are able to recover part and part legal costs in all our courts.  If you are in the Magistrates Court and the High Court, a successful litigant is ordinarily entitled to recover costs on a part and part legal basis, which the Hon.

Vice President is well-acquainted with.

However, there are situations where the courts can order punitive costs which are now called costs on an attorney and client scale or on a legal practitioner and client scale.  The way this proviso is formulated, it appears to me that the successful litigant is not even able to recover costs on a part and part basis.  The reason why Hon. Chamisa had suggested that this proviso be deleted was to ensure that where a litigant is successful, that litigant is also able to recover the costs which they would have incurred.

My view Hon. Chair would be that perhaps the way that proviso is formulated implies to me that the successful litigant is not entitled to recover anything in terms of costs apart from the disbursements.  I need that clarification as to what costs are being referred to in the proviso when it says that exceeding the amount of the costs.  I do not know whether Hon. Vice President you are with me on what I am trying to seek clarification on, as to whether what those costs entail.  It may appear that those costs may just be disbursements.  Perhaps it might be preferable to formulate the clause in such a way that it is implicit that a successful litigant can recover the normal part and part legal costs as opposed to the legal practitioner and client costs.

HON. MNANGAGWA:  Hon. Chair, I realise he is a lawyer who wants to fleece the poor.  The issue here is of costs.  We are saying the poor litigants must be able to hire lawyers cheaply, not using the Law Society benchmarks for hire costs on hourly charges.  When you have a poor person claiming a small claim in a small claims court, that should be done without the application of hire costs demanded by lawyers.  If a lawyer is willing to represent the litigant in the small claims court without using hire costs as per Law Society, he is allowed to do so.  We are only protecting the poor from unscrupulous lawyers. I thank you.

HON. GONESE:  I am not sure whether the Hon. Vice President understood my import. I was simply pointing out that there are instances where a court feels that a litigant should not have come to court because the claim is to use legal balance frivolous and vexatious.  It appears to me that this proviso takes away the power of the court even in those instances to order costs on a legal practitioner and client basis.  In the Magistrates Court for instance, if a court feels that a litigant should not have come to that court or that the claim is without any foundation whatsoever, the court has got the power to order that the scale of costs to be used and that is entirely within the discretion of the court.  Otherwise the first part of the proviso clearly stipulates that the legal practitioner would be entitled to costs on the basis of the Magistrates’ Court.  I have no quarrel or any problem with that but I am simply saying that there are those rare instances where a court has the power in its wisdom and discretion to order costs on that scale which is now higher on the higher scale.  I was of the opinion that, that power should not be taken away from the court.  Under normal circumstances, when costs are awarded, they are on a party and party basis and that is already covered in Pargraph 1 of that proviso.  But, I am worried in the sense that there is a total exclusion of any costs being awarded on a legal practitioner and client scale.

          THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): The Hon. Member is lost.  He is talking about the established costs of the system, whereas this is a Small Claims Court established for the purposes of attending to poor litigants.  A successful litigant cannot get costs from the Small Claims Court, that is very clear in the Act and this is what the Bill is saying.

          Amendment put and negatived.

          Clause 12 put and agreed to.

          On New Clause 13:

          HON. E. MNANGAGWA:  Mr. Chairman Sir, The proposed

Clause 13 is not acceptable because it affects the legal sphere of a

Constitutional Commission namely; the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission which has not been adequately forewarned about this amendment as required by Section 157 A of the Constitution.  In any case, this Clause and the following two Clauses, are founded on a mistaken view of the law.  It is clear from the statutory composition of the Electoral Court, Fiscal Appeal Court and the Intellectual Property Tribunal that, they are not independent courts but simply specialised divisions of the High Court.

          By explicitly reestablishing them under the new Clauses,13, 14 and 15, we are inviting lawyers to engage in needless litigation because the validity of the decisions of those courts  since the new Constitution came into force, will be cast into doubt.  We cannot throw the validity of these decisions into doubt, which is why Clause 5 is introduced by the words

‘for the avoidance of doubt’.  I otherwise wish to thank the Hon. Member Chamisa for the care and attention that he has given to the Bill, which is very commendable in a Member of Parliament.

However, I do not accept the proposed amendment as it would run against the provision of the Constitution under Section 174 of the Constitution.  I thank you.

HON. GONESE:  Thank you Mr. Chairman.  I was just going to request the Hon. Vice President by reason of the fact that the first reason that the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission has not been given an opportunity to comment on this proposed amendment – whether he can reconsider so that we can defer the consideration of this Clause so that we can also have the input from the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission since it is proposal or suggestion which has been made and which merits some serious consideration.  So my simple request to the Hon. Vice President would be that, can we have this Clause perhaps deferred and then we can seek leave to sit again once we have had the input from the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission.

HON. E. MNANGAGWA:  Mr. Chairman Sir, the Electoral Commission in terms of the Bill, were consulted.  What I am referring to here is the amendment which Hon. Member has done without even consulting whether what he wants to be done for the Electoral Commission – do they accept it.  That is what I am saying.  Otherwise, they have been consulted on the Bill and I do not accept the amendment.

Amendment put and negatived.

HON. GONESE:  Procedurally Mr. Chairman, unless I got lost somewhere.  We have been dealing with Clause 13 and there are two proposals for the New Clause 14 and New Clause 15 which have not been dealt with.

THE CHAIRPERSON:  Those have been covered as he stood

there.

HON. GONESE: Okay, I thought we were doing them one by

one.

House resumed.

Bill reported with amendments

Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee

TABLING OF THE ANTI-CORRUPTION COMMISSION

ANNUAL REPORT FOR 2016

THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,

LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.

MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, Section 323 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that every Commission must submit to Parliament through the responsible Minister an annual report describing fully its operations and activities.  In observance of this constitutional requirement, I therefore, as Minister responsible for the administration of Justice, lay upon the table the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission Annual Report for 2016.

COMMITTEE STAGE

MOVABLE PROPERTY SECURITY INTERESTS BILL [H.B.7,

2016]

Fifty-first Order read: Committee Stage: Movable Property

Security Interests Bill [H.B. 7, 2016].

          House in Committee.

          On arrangement of Sections:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendments in

my name that on page 1, in the Arrangement of Sections, delete the titles of sections 6 and 7 and the First and Second Schedules and replace them respectively with:

“First Schedule (Section 6): REGISTRATIONOFNOTICES

WITHRESPECTTOMOVABLEPROPERTYSECURITY

INTERESTS” and “Second Schedule (Section 7): LEGALREGIME

PERTAININGTOPERFECTEDMOVABLEPROPERTYSECURITY

INTERESTS

Amendments put and agreed to.

Arrangement of Sections, as amended, put and agreed to.

Clause 1 put and agreed to.

On Clause 2:

 

my name that on page 4, delete definition of “Collateral Registry” and replace it with: “Collateral Registry” or “Registry” means the system established in terms of section 4 to facilitate registration of notices of security interests in movable property and realisation of such interests in the event of a default.”

On page 4, delete definition of “movable property” and replace it with:  “movable property” or “movable asset” means any tangible or intangible property, including assets that may be or are affixed to immovable property.”

          Amendments to Clause 2 put and agreed to.

          Arrangement of Sections, as amended, put and agreed to.

          Clause 1 put and agreed to.

          Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.

On Clause 3:

my name that on page 5, delete Clause 3(1) and replace it with:

(1) Subject to subsection (3), this Act applies to security interests in movable property with a view to registering notices relating to security interests in the Collateral Registry.”

On page 5, delete Clause 3(3) and replace it with: “(3) A security interest -

• in a future asset; or
• in an undivided interest in a movable asset or movable property; or
• in a part of a movable asset or movable property;    may also be perfected by way of registration of a notice of security interest.”

          Amendments to Clause 3 put and agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.

On Clause 4:

my name that on page 6, delete Clause 4(1) and replace it with:

“(1) There is hereby established a Collateral Registry within the Reserve

Bank for the purposes of this Act.”

On page 6, delete Clause 4(2) and replace it with:

“(2)  Delete the word “staff of the…”

          Amendments to Clause 4 put and agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, put and agreed to.

On Clause 5:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment in

my name that on page 6, in Clause 5(2) (d) (ii):

Insert the word “notices of” between the words “registered” and

“security interests”

          Amendment to Clause 5 put and agreed to.

 

Clause 5, as amended, put and agreed to.

On Clause 6:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment in

my name that on page 6, replace Clause 6 with the following:

“Conditions for the registration of a notice of a security interest in the

Registry shall be as specified in the First Schedule.”       Amendment to Clause 6 put and agreed to.

          Clause 6, as amended, put and agreed to.

          Clauses 7 and 8 put and agreed to.

On Clause 9:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment in

my name that on page 7, in the heading and in Clause 9 (1) and 9 (2), replace the word “Register” with “Registry.”

          Amendment to Clause 9 put and agreed to.

Clause 9, as amended, put and agreed to.

          Clause 10 put and agreed to.

 

On Clause 11:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendment in

my name that on page 7, in Clause 11(2) (c) replace the words “Part IV” with the words “Part III.”

          Amendment to Clause 11 put and agreed to.

Clause 11, as amended, put and agreed to.

Clause 12, put and agreed to.

On Clause 13:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move the amendments

standing in my name that on page 10, delete Clause 3(2) and replace it with:

“(2) For the avoidance of doubt it is declared that every prior security interest perfected by a formal or informal mode recognised by common law continues to be legally valid and enforceable.”   On page 10, insert a new Clause 13(3) to read:

“(3) For the avoidance of doubt it is declared that every prior security interest, perfected otherwise than by a formal or informal method recognized by common law, continues to be perfected and retains its priority if a notice is registered in the Collateral Registry within nine months after this Act took effect” and re-number the subsequent section accordingly.”

Amendment to Clause 13, put and agreed to.

Clause 13, as amended, put and agreed to.

On First Schedule:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  I move the amendments

standing in my name that on page 11, in the heading, delete the words “Registration of Movable Securities” and replace with “Registration of Notices with respect to Movable Property Security Interests”

On page 12, in paragraph 2(4) (d) replace “section 8” with “paragraph 4”.

On page 17, in paragraph 24 (3) replace the word “Register” with the word “Registry” in the second line.

Amendments to First Schedule, put and agreed to.

First Schedule, as amended, put and agreed to.

On Second Schedule:

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  I move the amendments

standing in my name that, on page 17, in the heading delete the words,

“Legal Regime Pertaining to Registered Movable Property Securities” with “Legal Regime Pertaining to Perfected Movable Property Security

Interests”.

On page 18, under Part 1, in the interpretation section, in the definition of “notification of a security interest in a receivable” replace the word “debtor” in the second line with the word “obligor”:

On page 27, in Paragraph 34 (2) (d) delete the words, “security interest” in the first line.

On page 28, in Paragraph 35 (1) replace the word, “debtor” in the third line with the word, “obligor”.

Amendments to Second Schedule, put and agreed to.

Second Schedule, as amended, put and agreed to.

House resumed.

Bill reported with amendments.

Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

TABLING OF THE BI-ANNUAL REPORT OF THE BANK USE

PROMOTION AND SUPPRESSION OF MONEY LAUNDERING

UNIT FOR THE PERIOD OF 1^ST JULY TO 31^ST DECEMBER, 2016 THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  Madam Speaker, in terms

of Section 8 (2) of the Bank Use Promotion Act [Chapter 24:24], the Minister responsible for Finance and Economic Development has a duty to, bi-annually, lay before Parliament a report on the activities of the

Bank Use Promotion and Suppression of Money Laundering Unit of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.  It is on that basis that I rise and lay before this august House this report which covers the period commencing from

1 July, 2016 extending to the 31^st of December, 2016.

Madam Speaker, during the period under review, Zimbabwe successfully hosted, in Victoria Falls, the Eastern and Southern Africa

Anti Money Laundering Group Council of Ministers, Task Force of the

Senior Officials, the World Bank, the Financial Action Task Force, the

Sub-Saharan Africa Public-Private Sector Dialogue on Anti-Money Laundering and Combating the Financing of Terrorism and other cooperating countries including the United States of America.  The meeting was attended by close to 400 delegates.  The country underwent its first National Risk Assessment within the context of Anti-Money Laundering and the findings were captured in the Zimbabwe’s Mutual Evaluation Report which report was adopted by the Anti-Money Laundering Group and the Financial Action Task Force in the October, 2016.

Madam Speaker, for clarity, the Financial Action Task Force I have just referred to, is an inter-Governmental body currently comprising 37 member States established in 1989, whose objective is to set standards and promote effective implementation of legal, regulatory and operational measures for combating money laundering, terrorist financing and other related threats to the integrity – [HON. MEMBERS:

Inaudible interjections.] –

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Members.  Your

voices are too high, I cannot even hear the Minister.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA):  To the integrity of the

international financial system.  The Task Force is therefore, a “policymaking body” which works to generate the necessary framework to bring about national legislative and regulatory reforms in these areas.  Madam Speaker, crucially, the report on Zimbabwe contained recommendations on steps that need to be taken and legislative amendments that need to be effected by the country in order to mitigate or neutralise identified risks in combating financial terrorism.  For the information and benefit of this august House, the Financial Action Task

Force, having assessed Zimbabwe’s laws and Institutional arrangements, determined that our level of compliance with Anti-Money Laundering

“Best Practice” was as follows:

1. They assessed and said that we were compliant with 11 recommendations;
2. We were largely compliant with 8 recommendations;
3. Partially compliant with 15 recommendations; and
4. We were found not compliant with 6 recommendations.

While some progress has been noted to date, it stands clear that there remains space for considerable improvement, which improvement we are undoubtedly capable of achieving.

On the local front, Madam Speaker, most of banks operating in Zimbabwe are carrying out or have carried out their respective institutional or internal money laundering and terrorist financing risk assessment at the instance of the Financial Intelligence Unit, which is resident within the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ).

          This has resulted in improved capacity to identify suspicious transactions which saw the Financial Intelligence Unit of the (RBZ) receiving a total of 474 Suspicious Transaction Reports.  This represented 2.5% increase in number of reported cases as compared to the same period in 2015.

          Over this period, 80% of the Suspicious Transaction Reports were lodged by the banks, with money transfer agencies and an insurance company accounting for the remaining 20%.  There is therefore, significance progress being registered in monitoring suspicious transactions and in inter-institutional cooperation within our financial system.

          DESIGNATED NON-FINANCIAL BUSINESSES,

PROFESSIONS AND FINANCIAL INSTISTUTIONS

          With respect to Designated Non-Financial Businesses, Professions and Financial Institutions , the real estate sector, casinos, legal profession, precious stone and precious metal industry, among other Designated Non-Financial Businesses and Professions, such as Chartered Accountants, Public Accountants and other service providers, not otherwise required to be registered under any law, have been lagging behind in implementing the Anti Money Laundering and Combating Financial Terrorism safeguards.  It is particularly apparent when it is noted that not a single report was made by a participant of these sectors over the period concerned.

          Madam Speaker, the concern by the Financial Action Taskforce is that sometimes money laundering is laundered through trust accounts of professional bodies.  We are obliged and directed that we should make amendments to our laws to make sure that these are more transparent than they have been in the past.  This is the case because the country’s laws do not currently require Anti-Money Laundering and Combating

Financing Terrorism supervisory institutions (or ‘Competent

Authorities’), financial institutions and Designated Non-Financial Businesses and Professions I have mentioned, to specifically adopt and implement a risk-based approach to Anti-Money Laundering and Combating Financing Terrorism measures taking into account the size of their businesses.

          It therefore goes without saying, that these sectors present a high money laundering risk to the financial system of Zimbabwe.  There is therefore the need, to ensure that these sectors are in full compliance with the aforementioned requirements on Anti-Money Laundering, which will undoubtedly include legislative amendments and training programmes in order to improve the members of that sector’s capacity to identify, assess and appreciate their own Money Laundering and Terrorism Financing risk, develop internal control procedures and processes on a risk-bases, taking into account the size of their business

as well as monitor implementation.  They will be better positioned to thereafter report any suspicious transactions.

NON-PROFIT ORGANISATIONS (NPOs)

          Madam Speaker, with respect to Non-Profit Organisations or Private Voluntary Organisations, the legal regulatory framework for registration and licencing as well as monitoring of the Non-Profit Organisations sector needs to be enhanced by strengthening in the licencing and registration requirements of Non-Profit Organisations, which in our case are registered under the Private Voluntary

Organisation Act [Chapter 15:05], this will be to facilitate monitoring of the sector so as to deal with terrorism financing vulnerabilities.  There is also need for amendment of the law to allow beneficiary information to be obtained as well as introduce proportionate, dissuasive and effective sanctions against Non-Profit Organisations found to be aligned to any terrorist activity.

CUSTOMER DUE DILIGENCE (CDD)

          The Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Act does not

impose a direct obligation for financial institutions to establish and verify the identity of a customer who is a beneficial owner except for transaction sizes prescribed under Section 15 of the Act.  This is not consistent with the requirements of Recommendation 10 of the Financial Action Task Force standards.

          It is for this reason I shall pursue the strengthening of the Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Act by an amendment inserting a specific requirement for financial institutions to put in place risk-based systems and controls that would determine the circumstances under which a customer may utilise a business relationship or carry out a transaction prior to verification of their identity.

          These deficiencies extend to all types of Designated non-Financial Businesses and Professions as I alluded to earlier, which informs the need for intervention.

CORRESPONDENT BANKING

          Lastly, Madam Speaker, it is necessary that amendments to the Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Act be effected to address the problem of de-risking arising from the country’s failure to satisfy the requirements of correspondent banks, particularly with respect to customer due diligence obligations.

          Madam Speaker, in the context, de-risking refers to a practice in which financial institutions take deliberate steps to minimise their exposure to risk and thereby avoid financial loss.  This tends to include termination of relationships with a specified category of customers considered “high risk”, and also termination of relationships between correspondent banks and respondent institutions in jurisdictions which are considered ‘high risk’.

          There is therefore need to significantly improve the manner with which due diligence is carried out in order for our local institutions to successfully weed out high risk customers and thereby reduce the risk, by extension, associated with local correspondent institutions.  This process of due diligence will aid in combating money laundering within our financial system.

          Madam Speaker, I now submit, to this august House the Report of the Bank Use Promotion and Suppression of Money Laundering Unit under the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe for the period 1^st to 31^st July, 2016.  I thank you.

On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON.

RUNGANI, the House adjourned at Six Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.

until Tuesday, 2^nd May, 2017.