PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 27th September, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform the Senate that I have received from the National Assembly, the Finance Bill [H. B. 9B, 2022]. The National Assembly has adopted the amendments to Clauses 2 and 3 recommended by Senate without further amendments. In terms of Standing Order Number 136 (2), the amended clauses are recommitted to the Committee of the whole House.
RECOMMITTAL STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9B, 2022]
House in Committee
Clauses 2 and 3, put and agreed to
House resumed
Bill reported without amendments
Third Reading: with leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9B, 2022]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): I move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. WATSON KHUPE
HON. SEN. MANYAU: May we move this to tomorrow. I lost my brother and discussing this brings more memories.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I thought you are the one who brought this?
HON. SEN. MANYAU: I did, I lost my brother recently but if you insist…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: If you are not ready, you ask the House to stand over the Motion.
HON. SEN. MANYAU: I am not ready because I recently lost my brother.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 7TH ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARIANS NETWORK ON DEVELOPMENT EVALUATION HELD IN MOROCCO
HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Delegation to the 7th Annual General Meeting of the African Parliamentarians’ Network on Development Evaluation held from 1st to 3rd August, 2022 in Rabat, the Kingdom of Morocco.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO:
1.0 Introduction
1.1 The Speaker of Parliament, Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda led a
delegation of Parliamentarians to the 7th Annual General Meeting AGM)
of the African Parliamentarians’ Network on Development Evaluation
(APNODE). The AGM was held from 1 to 3 August 2022 in Rabat, the
Kingdom of Morocco. Running under the theme, “Effective
Parliamentary Public Engagement for Inclusive Development,” the
AGM was held at the House of Councillors of Morocco.
2.0 Composition of Delegation
The Zimbabwe delegation
2.1 The Speaker’s delegation comprised of Hon. Sen. Langton
Nechombo, Hon. Paurina Mpariwa, Hon. Omega Sibanda and Hon.
Tatenda Mavetera. Members attended the APNODE Executive
Committee’s meeting held on 1 August 2022 before proceeding to join
other Members of APNODE at the Orientation Session which Hon.
Mavetera chaired. After the Orientation Session, the Members
participated in a training session on, “Using Evidence in Policy and
Practice: Lessons from Africa,”
Hon. Mavetera chairing a session
3.0 Special Session for Speakers and Presidents
3.1 The Speaker of Parliament’s first engagement at the AGM was a special session for Speakers of National Assemblies and Presidents of Senates held on 1 August 2022, hosted by H. E. Enaam Mayara, the President of the Moroccan House of Councillors of the Kingdom of Morocco. The House of Councillors is the equivalent of the Senate in Zimbabwe. Also, in attendance were Sen. Lindiwe Dlamini (Senate President in Parliament of the Kingdom of Eswatini), Hon. Fabakary Tombong Jatta (Speaker of the National Assembly of the Gambia), Hon. Delfim Santiago Das Neves (Speaker of the National Assembly of São Tomé and Principe), Hon. Simplice M. Sarandji (President of the National Assembly of the Central African Republic) and Hon. Mary Ayen Mijpk (1st Deputy Speaker of the Council of States of the Republic of South Sudan). The session was held behind closed doors.
From left to right, Hon. Delfim Santiago Das Neves, Hon. Simplice M. Sarandji, Sen. Lindiwe Dlamini, His Excellency Enaam Mayara, Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda, Hon. Fabakary Tombong Jatta,
4.0 Official Opening Ceremony
4.1 On 2nd August 2022, the AGM was officially opened by the President of the House of Councillors in the Kingdom of Morocco, His Excellency Enaam Mayara. Hon. Mayara welcomed the delegations to the Kingdom of Morocco. He acknowledged the presence of five leaders of Parliaments at the AGM and noted that the meeting was a landmark development for APNODE. He commended the theme of the AGM for reflecting inclusive development which he admitted was an important aspect of people’s development aspirations. Parliamentarians were called upon to contribute towards the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals by 2030. His Excellency Enaam Mayara indicated that challenges could be overcome through unity of purpose leveraging on Africa’s abundant natural resources. He pledged the Kingdom of Morocco’s support for APNODE to ensure that the Network achieves its objectives and assured the meeting that the House of Councillors of the Kingdom of Morocco would join APNODE as an institution following in the footsteps of Zimbabwe.
4.2 The Speaker’s Remarks
4.2.1 As part of the opening ceremony, there were several Speakers who included the Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe who made some remarks. In his remarks, Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda acknowledged the incisive opening remarks by the President of the House of Councillors of the Kingdom of Morocco, which had covered critical areas on Development Evaluation (DEV). He also recognised the dynamic Chairman of APNODE, Hon. Adomahou and his Executive Committee for doing exceptionally well in driving the APNODE agenda. The Speaker tendered the Zimbabwe delegation’s gratitude for the hospitality extended to it and through His Excellency, President of the House of Councillors, send a congratulatory message on the anniversary of the 23rd year of the King of Morocco’s accession to the throne.
4.2.2 Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda then drew the attention of participants to the African Union (AU’s) Agenda 2063 alluded to by the host President of the House of Councillors. He outlined the eight (8) key areas to which the Agenda addresses as follows:
- African Identity and Renaissance;
- Struggle against Colonialism and the Right to Self Determination for people still under Colonisation;
- Integration Agenda;
- Agenda for Economic and Social Development;
- Agenda for Peace and Security;
- Democratic Governance;
- Determining Africa’s Destiny; and
- Africa’s place in the World.
4.2.3 The Speaker pointed out that these were very challenging areas where development evaluation should apply its critical thought. He reminded participants that there were only eight (8) years left to get to 2030, the set period of achieving the SDG targets. Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda noted that following its formation in 2014, APNODE only had fourteen (14) member states out of a possible fifty-four (54) countries. He viewed this as a serious indictment on the current Members who had joined the team that champions Development Evaluation (DEV).
4.2.4 He called upon all Parliaments under the AU flag to raise the APNODE flag higher as he opined that inclusive development must be championed by all Parliaments under the AU not only by the current Parliaments that have APNODE Chapters.
4.2.5 The Speaker encouraged participants not to despair by reflecting on the formation of the Organisation of African Unity, where the idea of the organisation was championed by fourteen (14) people in two groups, the Casablanca group and the Monrovia group. He explained that eventually, the two groups had collapsed into one group and in 1963 the Organisation of African Unity had been formed by thirty-three (33) member states. Fifty-nine years later, virtually all fifty-four countries had become members of the African Union.
4.2.6 Furthermore, Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda expressed the view that APNODE should create a sense of urgency in ensuring that all the fifty-four (54) AU countries and their Parliaments embrace APNODE without fail. He highlighted that Development Evaluation was the heart of Parliaments’ oversight, representation and legislative roles. He emphasised that since Parliaments look at value for money in the expended Budget, the taxpayer’s money that emerges as the public purse, Parliaments were enjoined to ensure that there is prudential accountability of that public purse.
4.2.6 He proffered that the APNODE Executive Committee was enjoined to address the five (5) regions that constitute the Pan-African Parliament for them to embrace and that resources had to be mobilised so that the Executive moves around to convince those Parliaments that are still hesitating to join APNODE. He stressed that this was a critical assignment. The Speaker argued that doing so would be a demonstration that African Parliaments share the African identity and its renaissance. He further pointed that the implementation of Agenda 2063 and the African Continental Free Trade Area (ACFTA) would not be effective without the use of barometer of Development Evaluation.
4.2.7 The Speaker highlighted the cardinal need for the continent to be seen as one Africa, with one voice singing the APNODE melody. He identified the current COVID-19 pandemic as a risk that countries had to contend with in APNODE’s journey as it had destabilised the countries’ Gross Domestic Products (GDP), in some instances resulting in zero Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth. He stated that Parliaments were expected to ensure that their governments get out of the zero-growth rate by coming up with mitigatory measures.
4.2.8 The Speaker also identified climate change as another risk to be addressed by Parliaments as the risk is likely to derail the development agenda. He observed that climate change had in fact destabilised the world economy as funds that were meant for development ended up being utilised for infrastructural reconstruction after the disastrous impact of climate change. He noted that the droughts, floods and the tornedos had been extremely destructive of people’s livelihoods. Thus, Parliaments have the responsibility to come up with stout budgets to address the climate change adversities.
4.2.9 Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda referred to the Russia-Ukraine conflict which had also destabilised the world economy. He indicated that in the middle of that destabilisation, Parliaments should play a role in ensuring that the conflict does not continue to destabilise their economies. He expressed his pleasure with the efforts which have been taken by the Inter-Parliamentary Union of establishing a taskforce from the five (5) African geo-political groups to engage the Parliaments of Ukraine and the Parliament of the Russian Federation so that lasting peace can be attained through dialogue. He bemoaned the effects of war which brings about massive destruction of human life and infrastructure, hence the need for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.
4.2.10 The Speaker highlighted that it was important for Parliamentarians to bear in mind the risks that may threaten the championing of APNODE’s vision, mission and objectives among Parliamentarians in the Continent.
4.2.11 Additionally, the Speaker stated that ACFTA together with Agenda 2063 should be tools that bring Africans together to achieve continental development. He observed that quite a number of Parliaments had not ratified Agenda 2063 and the ACFTA. He further expressed his displeasure for the Eswatini and his delegation’s failure to travel from their two respective countries directly to Rabat as they had to pass through Dubai and France, then come down to Rabat in Africa.
4.2.12 He stressed the need to establish an African identity, a renaissance that Africa must awaken and exploit its natural resources which are enormous. Hon. J. F. N. Mudenda demanded that Africans should refuse to be the “Dark Continent” in the world and that APNODE should assist in ensuring that such a misconception about the African Continent is re-directed elsewhere.
4.2.13 The Speaker concluded by wishing APNODE and the African Union success in embracing development evaluation as a tool to influence inclusive development.
5.0 APNODE’s Annual Report
Hon. Mpariwa presenting the Network’s Annual Report
5.1 Hon. Mpariwa presented that Network’s Annual Report (2021-2022). The following were key areas covered in the report:
- Meetings of the Executive Committee;
- The Network’s Strategic Plan and Costed Work-Plan (2021-2023);
- Expanding the Network;
- Cementing the Network through National Chapters; and
- Capacity Building; and Resource Mobilisation.
6.0 APNODE’s Financial Report
Hon. Senator Chief Nechombo presenting the Network’s Financial Report
6.1 Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo presented the Network’s Financial Report (2021-2022) with the following key highlights:
- Opening balance of US$ 25 947, 26;
- Network’s membership fees;
- In-kind donations from development partners;
- Expenses incurred during the financial period; and
- End year balance of US$ 41 087, 26 because no capital expenditure was incurred.
7.0 High Level Panel Discussion 1
7.1 On the same day, the Hon. Speaker of Parliament participated in a High-Level Panel discussion on the topic “Eight (8) years to realise the SDGs: Re-imaging African Parliamentarian’s Strategic Imperatives.” The other Speakers who were present at the AGM also took part in the discussions and shared their country experiences. The following are some of the issues raised during the panel discussion:
- That Parliaments should play a more constructive role in ensuring that sound national policies are formulated and implemented.
- That the implementation of Agenda 2023 places people at the centre of development which should, therefore, encompass the youth, women and vulnerable groups.
- That Parliaments should ensure that National Budgets reflect the demand for government development agenda and must provide robust oversight to avoid imprudent management of the public purse.
- That in pursuing the development agenda, peace, security and liberties are prerequisites.
- The Hon. Speaker of Parliament made the following interventions:
- The topic for discussion called for reimaging, rebranding and repositioning of our Parliamentary processes which accentuate the implementation of SDGs.
- Zimbabwe had suffered economic sanctions in the last twenty-two (22) years but had set its vision of an upper middle-class economy by 2030 despite the heinous sanctions.
- In Zimbabwean law, reforms had been instituted to achieve the ease of doing business and in the process attracting both domestic and foreign investments.
- The Transitional Stabilisation Policy (TSP), an economic policy characterised by austerity measures had helped the country to save resources for other sectors during the implementation of the TSP’s successor programme, the National Development Strategy 1 (NDS1).
- Parliament of Zimbabwe had established an Expanded SDGs Committee under the supervision of the Hon. Speaker and the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders in order to accelerate the implementation of the SDGs by 2030.
- It was no longer business as usual as some Ministries had to work during the weekends in order to ensure the achievement of SDGs as directed by His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe under the periodic 100 days performance cycle.
8.0 High Level Panel Discussion 11
Hon. O. Sibanda participating in a panel discussion
8.1 Hon. O. Sibanda participated in the second High-Level Panel discussion whose topic was “Institutionalising Evaluation as a Governance Tool: What Role must Parliamentarians Play to Realise this Goal.” Hon. Sibanda made some of the interventions below:
- Zimbabwe had a National Evaluation Policy and a Ministry in the President’s Office responsible for Monitoring Implementation of Government Programmes.
- The Speaker of Parliament, Hon. Adv. J. F. N. Mudenda was Parliament’s champion on issues of Development Evaluation.
- A couple of awareness workshops had been held with Parliamentarians on Development awareness.
- Civil society organisations, churches, community leaders and other stakeholders must be capacitated on the importance of Development Evaluation.
9.0 Closing Ceremony
Hon. Speaker chairing the closing session
8.1 On 3 August 2022, Hon. Advocate J. F. N. Mudenda chaired the closing session of the AGM. The host President of the House of Councillors of the Kingdom of Morocco, His Excellency Mayara delivered the closing remarks. He congratulated all the participants for a successful AGM which the people of Morocco felt honoured to have hosted. He thanked the APNODE Executive Committee for the trust demonstrated in selecting Morocco as host of the AGM and announced Parliament’s resolution to support APNODE to ensure that Network achieves its objectives. He assured participants that the Parliament of the Kingdom of Morocco was working hard to overcome its challenges that militated against the improvement of the lives of the people. He concluded by indicating that the Kingdom of Morocco was open for future cooperation at bilateral and or at multilateral levels. To buttress his support for APNODE, he affirmed that their Parliament would also join as an institutional member of APNODE. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
FOURTH REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON PEACE AND SECURITY ON THE BENCHMARKING VISIT TO THE PARLIAMENT OF RWANDA
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move the motion standing in my name: That this House takes note of the Fourth Report of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security on the Benchmarking Visit to the Parliament of Rwanda on the 20th to 25th February 2022
HON. SEN. CHIEF. NGUNGUMBANE: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Introduction
The Thematic Committee on Peace and Security conducted a Bench-marking visit to the Senate Chamber of Rwanda from the 20th to the 25th of February 2022.The benchmarking visit was fully funded by the Parliament of Zimbabwe.
The delegation to Rwanda comprised of six Members and two staff members namely, Hon. Sen. Dr. P.D. Parirenyatwa, Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane, Hon. Sen. E. Mudzuri, Hon. Sen. D. Mabika, Hon. Sen. A. Matiirira, Hon. Sen. E. Baipai, Ms Faith Manhivi (Committee Clerk) and Ms Tapuwa Sukuta (Committee Researcher).
The delegation held meetings with Rwanda Parliamentarians and Ministry of Local Government, focusing on territorial administration, Rwanda Governance Board on home grown solutions in fostering public order and security, Rwanda National Police on internal security management in addition to touring the Kigali Genocide Memorial Park, Museum for the Campaign against Genocide and Isange One-Stop Center. The Ambassador to Zimbabwe, Professor Charity Manyeruke attended most of the meetings that the delegation had.
Objectives of the Visit
- To enhance Members of the Committee’s understanding of peace and security structures in Rwanda with a view to adopting and recommending best practices in all aspects in the crafting of our own laws.
- To give Members an opportunity to learn how Rwanda has managed to foster a conducive peaceful environment and good governance system.
- To expose Members of the Committee to diverse ways of enhancing the peace and security architecture in line with the vision 2030.
- To accord the Members of the Committee with an opportunity to discuss the legal impediments and enablers towards improving peace and security in the country during pandemics and the role that Parliament can play in enhancing the same.
Bilateral Relations between Rwanda and Zimbabwe
Rwanda and Zimbabwe enjoy cordial relations cemented by the presence of embassies in the two countries. These relations have been further strengthened in the Second Republic. The two countries have been collaborating in a wide range of programmes that are mutually beneficial. These include collaborations in trade and investments, infrastructure development, energy, civil aviation, environment and climate change among others.
The Rwanda-Zimbabwe Trade Conference involving both countries’ public and private sectors held in 2021 saw several agreements being signed between the two countries. The cooperation agreements were in ICT and e-governance, environment and climate change, agriculture and livestock, tourism and business events. The conference aimed at exploring and consolidating areas of collaboration and partnerships. The relationship has been further cemented by the RwandAir which flies to Zimbabwe twice a week thus further enhancing cooperation between the two countries.
Courtesy Call to the Right Honourable President of the Senate: H E. Augustin Iyamuremye.
The Committee was welcomed to Rwanda Parliament by the Right Honourable President of the Senate H E Augustin Iyamuremye. The President of the Senate highlighted that the Parliament of Rwanda is bicameral and is composed of the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate. The Parliament of Rwanda has 61% women representation in the Chamber of Deputies and 38% women representation in the Senate respectively.
The administration of each Chamber is headed by a Clerk, assisted by a Deputy Clerk, in Charge of Legislative Affairs and the Clerk of each Chamber is independent and he/she is the chief budget manager. The President of the Senate commended the bilateral relationship that already exists between Zimbabwe and Rwanda, which forms the basis for learning and exchange visits and indicated that they would be interested in also sending a delegation to Zimbabwe to benchmark as well. The Committee had an opportunity to give a brief overview of the Parliament of Zimbabwe and indicated that we have the same scenario as Rwanda, where the Parliament of Zimbabwe is bicameral and is composed of the National Assembly and Senate.
History of Genocide
A brief history of the Rwanda Genocide of 1994 was given by the President of the Senate, where members of the Hutu ethnic majority murdered close to a million people, mostly of the Tutsi minority within 100 days. He noted that the history of the country has contributed immensely on how the country has developed and has united over the years. He concluded by pointing out that if it has been possible for Rwanda to become a destination for all to learn, it is also possible for other countries to develop.
Tour of the Kigali Genocide Memorial
The delegation toured the Kigali Genocide Memorial and they observed that the people of Rwanda embrace peace and reconciliation and they are committed to fight the ideology of genocide. The memorials found throughout the country are moving testimonies in memory of the 1994 Genocide against the Tutsi and the people who lost their lives.
The Memorial was Inaugurated in 2004, the delegation was informed that the Kigali Genocide Memorial at Gisozi is the final resting place for more than 250,000 victims of the Genocide against the Tutsi. This memorial also serves to educate about how the Genocide against the Tutsi took shape and examines genocide in the 20th century. The memorial gardens provide a place for quiet contemplation about the history of the Genocide against the Tutsi. They allow visitors to reflect on how we all have a personal responsibility to prevent discrimination and mass atrocity. The delegation noted that the centre also provides support for survivors, in particular orphans and widows.
Tour of the Museum for the Campaign Against Genocide
The Rwanda Parliament building was chosen as the location for this museum because it housed 600 Rwanda Patriotic Army (RPF/A) soldiers from December 1993 to 1994 as they were preparing for the formation of the Broad-Based Transitional Government and the National Transitional Assembly. The Museum depicts in detail how the Campaign Against Genocide Plan was executed by RPF/A following the withdrawal of UN troops leaving the targeted Tutsi under the mercy of the Genocidaires and how only the RPF/A forces who were in the war of liberation took the unilateral decision to stop Genocide, rescue victims of Genocide and defeat the Genocidal forces.
Meeting with the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, Cooperation and Security
Specific Missions of the Senate
Apart from the common missions for both Chambers, it was highlighted that the Senate of Rwanda focuses more on critical issues that concern the country and provide advice. In particular, the Senate monitors the application of fundamental principles specified in Article 10 and that of the provisions of Articles 56 and 57 of the Rwanda Constitution.
The Fundamental Principles referred to in article 10 of the Constitution consist of:
- Fighting the ideology of genocide and all its manifestations;
- Eradication of ethnic, regional and other divisions and the promotion of national unity;
- equitable sharing of power;
- Building a State governed by the rule of law, a pluralistic democratic Government, equality of all Rwandans and between men and women which is affirmed by women occupying at least thirty percent (30%) of positions in decision-making organs;
- Building a State committed to promoting social welfare and establishing appropriate mechanisms for equal opportunity to social justice;
- Constant quest for solutions through dialogue and consensus.
It was indicated that there are four (4) Standing Committees in the Senate:
- Standing Committee on Political Affairs and Good Governance;
- Standing Committee on Economic Development and Finance;
- Standing Committee on Social Affairs, Human Rights and Petitions;
- Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Cooperation and Security.
The Committee highlighted that similar to the case of Rwanda of having Standing Committees in the Senate, the Senate in Zimbabwe has Thematic Committees which are designed according to the theme or broad area(s) they cover. The committee indicated that the function of Thematic Committees is to examine government policies which fall under or relate to the designated theme or themes, and other matters falling under their jurisdictions as the Standing Rules and Orders Committee may determine.
Committee Business
Pursuant to Article 89 of the organic law of Rwanda, determining the functions of the Senate, the Committee on Foreign Affairs, Cooperation and Security is specifically responsible for monitoring the application of the fundamental principle of prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide, fighting against denial and revisionism of Genocide as well as eradication of genocide ideology and all its manifestations. Regarding the oversight of the Executive action, the Committee on Foreign Affairs, Cooperation and Security is responsible for monitoring the following:
- The implementation of foreign affairs and cooperation policy;
- International agreements;
- The functioning of Rwanda foreign missions;
- State protocol in general
- National security and integrity;
- The organization of Security organs;
- Rwandan nationals living abroad
The Committee on Peace and Security in turn highlighted that it was guided by Section 117 (2) (b) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, which states that “Parliament may make laws for the peace, order and good governance. Consequently, this gives Parliament the mandate to strengthen governance systems by calling the executive to account for the manner it determines and executes public policy and programs. Parliamentarians, through their law-making and oversight functions, can ensure that government institutions promote peace, security and gender equality by guaranteeing that all laws in their intent and in their application promote and protect human rights and embrace inclusive governance.
The Peace and Security Committee has the responsibility of examining government policies which relate to peace and security and other matters falling under their jurisdiction as the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders may determine. It encompasses issues of conflicts, terrorism, cyber security, war, food security, political and economic instability, civil unrest and other social issues.
During its presentation, the Committee took the opportunity to mention that in 2008, Parliament of Zimbabwe took an initial decision to seek the International Organization for Standardisation (ISO) Certification as part of its Institutional Strategic Plan. The ISO 9001:2015 focuses on quality management systems and performance and this standard has assisted Parliament of Zimbabwe to develop a management system that aligns quality with its institutional strategic plan (2018-2023). The Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, Cooperation and Security of Rwanda indicated that there were interested in knowing more about the ISO processes.
Meeting with the Minister of Local Government Hon. Gatabazi Jean Marie Vienne focusing on Territorial Administration
The delegation was informed that the Ministry of Local Government ensures the coordination of good governance and high-quality territorial administration programs that promote economic, social, and political development throughout the nation.
The Ministry of Local Government is responsible for:
- Developing, disseminating, and coordinating the implementation of policies, strategies and sector programs through the formulation of national policies, strategies and programs of good governance, territorial administration, social affairs and group settlement sites to ensure sustainable community development.
- Developing a legal framework for good governance, territorial administration, settlement and social-economic development.
- Developing institutional and human resources capacities of the decentralised entities
- Monitoring and evaluating the implementation of sector and sub-sector policies, strategies and programmes.
- Overseeing the functioning of institutions supervised by the Ministry.
- Promoting effective intergovernmental relationships.
- Mobilizing resources for the ministry's activities.
The delegation noted that the Ministry of Local Government has six programmes and directorates that are mandated to implement the ministry's core mission of ensuring the coordination of good governance and high-quality territorial administration programmes to promote economic, social and political development throughout the nation.
Meeting with the Rwanda Governance Board, Dr. Kaitesi Usta, Chief Executive Officer on Home Grown Solutions in Fostering Peace and Security
The delegation held a meeting with the Rwanda Governance Board on Home Grown Solutions on fostering peace and security. To build the nation, promote national culture and restore dignity, based on their values, Rwandans initiated home-grown mechanisms (based on Article 11 of the Constitution) to deal with matters that concern them. Home-Grown Solutions were therefore, established to manage the many challenges Rwanda faced after the 1994 genocide to inculcate a mindset shift away from dependence towards economic self-reliance, integrate citizens as active participants in their own development processes.
The delegation noted that the homegrown solutions were divided into thematic areas which are:
- Peace Building and Social Cohesion- Gacaca Courts, Abunzi Committees, Legal Aid Bureau (MAJ), Transformational Security Sector and Unity & Reconciliation.
- Public Sector Performance & Service Delivery- Imihigo, Public Sector Innovations, and Public Finance Management.
- Community-Centered Development and Empowerment- Umuganda, Citizen Participation & ownership, Community services, Itorero, Girinka, Ubudehe, VUP, Mutuelle de Santé, CHWs, 9&12YBE, and SACCOs.
- Economic Development, Business Environment and Climate Change- Tax reforms and investment reforms, new technological changes, solutions for environment protection, and business reforms etc.
The Committee highlighted that similar to the scenario in Rwanda, Zimbabwe has also come up with home grown solutions. For instance, consistent with the collective aspirations and determination of the people of Zimbabwe to achieve an Empowered and Prosperous Upper Middle-Income Society by 2030, the Second Republic launched Vision 2030 to chart a new transformative and inclusive development agenda. The National Development Strategy 1 (2021-2025) is expected to deliver broad based transformation, new wealth creation and expanding horizons of economic opportunities for all Zimbabweans, with no one left behind. The Committee also highlighted that the Pfumvudza home grown concept aims at ensuring food, nutrition and livelihood security at household level. Pfumvudza Programme is the flagship programme in the implementation of Zimbabwe’s government Agriculture Recovery Plan. The Government of Zimbabwe also introduced AIDS Levy as a 'homegrown' solution that provided country ownership and reduced dependence on donor funding. Resources for the fund are collected through a Parliament special tax act, which requires formal employers and their employees in Zimbabwe to contribute 3 per cent of their income. It is considered a resourceful approach to ensure sustainability and reducing aid dependency in the national response to HIV.
Meeting with the Inspector General of the Rwanda National Police on Internal Security Management through Community Policing and Rwanda’s Contribution to Peacekeeping Missions
Rwanda Internal Security
Rwanda internal security policy aims to guard against crimes through cooperation with the citizens, security bodies in support to the process of good governance, unity and civic education, rehabilitation of offenders. It also aims to promote economic growth and improve living conditions of citizens, provide adequate capacity for intervention in areas hit by hazards and disasters. It also ensures availability of clear legislation regarding crime investigation, prosecution and taking offenders before the courts of law. Internal security therefore, requires collaboration of institutions and international cooperation, right from the regional level.
Specific objectives of the Internal Security are:
- To ensure security for people and their property;
- To enable citizens to play a greater role in maintaining their own security;
- To eradicate the culture of impunity and self-justice;
- To enforce the law;
- To improve institutional collaboration in areas of internal security;
- To facilitate creation of private security companies and streamline their management;
- To promote friendship and cooperation with other countries so as to prevent and identify repressed criminals and their perpetrators;
- To train professional police officers and prison security guards and provide them with adequate skills and logistical equipment;
- To establish a community-based police force in which citizens are confident;
- To improve management of small and light arms;
- To establish correctional facilities that ensure respect of national laws and international conventions relating to the rights of prisoners;
- To ensure self-sufficiency by correctional facilities
- To improve rehabilitation centres for vagrants, beggars;
- To conduct rescue interventions in case of floods, earthquakes, arson, motor vehicle accidents and other disasters likely to endanger security of people and their property;
- To prompt prisoners to repent and change both in attitudes and thoughts;
- To assist prisoners through training and skills upgrading to allow them to earn their living and contribute to the country’s economic growth
The Committee mentioned that similar to Rwanda’s community policing initiative, the Zimbabwe Republic Police introduction of the community relations scheme saw the birth of the Neighborhood Watch Committees and Junior call programmes. The Committee highlighted that the police developed new initiatives to accommodate the aspirations of the community in areas of service delivery, human rights and new policing philosophies. In the process, a culture of planning was incepted and has taken root, and this saw the introduction of the Strategic Plans, Tactical Plans, Service Plans and the Service Charter. The police developed new standards as well as systems and procedures tailored to accommodate the entire human resource base in the organisation and develop levels of decision making at Provincial, District and Station levels and a process of democratisation of the organisation. The transformation saw the creation of new departments in the police like the Information Systems and Information Technology. The strategic links with other organisations enabled the police to fulfill its constitutional obligations.
Rwanda contribution to peace keeping
After the loss of more than one million innocent souls during the 1994 Genocide against the Tutsi, Rwanda government felt it had a moral duty to prevent similar tragedy from happening elsewhere and was passionate about protection of lives in conflict affected areas.
The first Rwanda National Police (RNP) Peace Keeping Mission took place in 2005 when Police officers were deployed to the African Union Mission in Sudan (AMIS) later to be renamed United Nations-African Union Mission in Darfur (UNAMID). This was just five years of RNP’s existence as a young force that was created on June 16, 2000 with just 3500 total force.
As a young force, RNP spared part of its personnel to restore peace in other affected countries and to equally live Rwanda’s “moral duty.” Over the last 15 years, more than 7700 Rwanda Police officers have participated in peacekeeping duties across the globe, of which over 1400 of them are women. Over the last 15 years of the RNP peacekeeping journey, they have also participated in restoring peace and security in Ivory Coast, Mali, Liberia and deployment of FPUs in Haiti; Police Professional staff in the United Nations Headquarters in New York as well as heading the Police components (Police Commissioner) in Ivory Coast (UNOCI) and South Sudan (UNMISS).
Today, Rwanda continues to live the country’s “moral duty” as the 2nd largest Police contributing country to UN Peace Support Operations with over 1000 officers. RNP has been applauded for their resilience, discipline, professionalism and for exported Rwandan cultural values like promotion of dignity for women to the host nation. Rwandan peacekeepers have also introduced home grown solutions, like Umuganda, supporting vulnerable groups like orphans and building or renovating houses for the less privileged, medical assistance all of which contribute to the general welfare of the people, inspire confidence and partnership among the indigenous population.
On peacekeeping, the delegation indicated that Zimbabwe cherishes and values the honour of serving humanity, having experienced a protracted struggle for independence, which was not only long but had many casualties. In this regard, Zimbabwe also sent various contingents to both African and United Nations missions who have gone to excel in their assigned various tasks. This is evidenced by Zimbabwe Republic Police officers who were deployed to the United Nations Peacekeeping mission in Darfur (UNAMID), being awarded with UN Service peace medals.
Tour of Isange
IsangeOne Stop Centre is a structure for a comprehensive response to address gender-based violence and to complement the nation-wide efforts by the Ministry of Health, the National Police and the Ministry of Justice. The Isange is located at Kacyiru Police Hospital, Gasabo District, and Kigali.
The delegation was informed that the program is aimed at providing psychosocial, medical, police and legal services to adult and child survivors of gender-based violence and child abuse occurring in the family or in the community at large. The centre was named Isange Centre, which means "Feel free/Feel welcome", communicating a message of security and openness for the survivors. The delegation noted that by establishing Isange Centres countrywide the National Police, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Justice aim at improving the linkages of different ministries, referrals and care of gender-based violence victims/survivors at centralized and decentralized levels.
Key Observations
- The administration of each Chamber is headed by a Clerk, assisted by a Deputy Clerk, in Charge of Legislative Affairs.
- Clerk of each chamber is independent and he/she is the chief budget manager.
- Members of Parliament are given permanent seats in the Plenary Hall in accordance with alphabetical order of their surnames.
- The Parliament utilises ICT in its daily activities especially in the Voting system, mailing and correspondence.
- The Parliament of Rwanda has 61% women representation in the Chamber of Deputies and 38% women representation in the Senate respectively.
- The Senate of Rwanda has the Committee in charge of Assessment of the Senate’s Activities, Senators’ Conduct and Immunity.
- Home Grown Solutions have been successful in Rwanda because of the methodology employed and driven by the Leadership’s Commitment and ability to build purpose and direction.
- The security forces play an important role in community development which includes protecting national territory, sovereignty and people; building professional security forces that are developmental and pro-people; gender mainstreaming in security forces; and participation of citizens in security.
- Rwanda’s security forces participate in socio-economic development of the country. This is done through initiatives such as Umuganda, Police and RDF community outreach programs where they offer services to citizens in health, education, infrastructure, energy as well as environmental protection.
- They also extend services through their specialized institutions like Rwanda military hospital, RDF and Police schools and training centers.
- The result of such initiatives has created trust and strong working relationship between security forces and the citizens. This is confirmed by the results of the Citizens Report Card 2021 where citizens’ confidence in the RDF and RNP was 99.6% and 96.5% respectively.
- The Police force engages in awareness campaigns for example security and hygiene annually where they provide a car for the winner, COVID awareness, crime prevention awareness through sports to increase the interaction between security forces and the citizens.
- No single institution can effectively manage Gender Based Violence & Child abuse
- The Isange One Stop Center reduces the risk of tainted evidence and this supports the process of justice and increased institutional collaboration & coordination through the multi-sectorial approach
- Rwanda has managed to achieve a good level of economic growth. The Government invests efforts in supporting several categories of the population that are vulnerable to poverty including older people, those living with disabilities, young children, female-headed households, genocide survivors and the historically marginalised.
- Rwanda has an independent board that monitors and evaluates the performance of Ministries.
- Rwanda is among one of the top ten countries free of corruption in Africa.
- Submission of value of assets annually by high ranking officials.
- Each District has a Mayor and two deputies. Each ward has four councilors who represent women, youth, people with disabilities and civil servants.
- Equitable distribution of resources based on History and background of Rwanda.
- National institute of statistics conducts annual evaluations as to achieve set targets.
Recommendations
- The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage should provide security systems at all ports of entry, for instance full body scanners, sniffer dogs by 31 August 2022.
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should avail adequate remuneration which is above poverty datum line to the Security sector so as to motivate them and reduce corruption with immediate effect.
- Unity must always be given top priority as it is the core foundation of peace and security, as such the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs in collaboration with the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission should continue to monitor peace and ensure the spirit of ubuntu amongst its citizens.
- The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade should facilitate the issuance of National Identification Cards and birth certificates in respective Embassies by 31 December 2022.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care in collaboration with the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should provide two more One-stop centers for victims of GBV and child abuse by 31 December 2022.
Conclusion
Rwanda has achieved political stability, public safety, economic growth and poverty alleviation and this attributed to peace and tranquility in the nation. There is therefore need for the government of Zimbabwe to adopt best practices by Rwanda Government in all aspects of peace and security so as to achieve economic growth and poverty alleviation in all sectors of the economy in line with achieving an upper middle-income economy under vision 2030. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUMBANE: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to support the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa and it was indeed an eye opener to our Committee. I would also want to thank the Administration of Parliament for affording this Committee to undertake a benchmarking visit and that this trip was wholly funded by Parliament. I would like to extend my sincere appreciation and thanks.
Mr. President, the issue of ethnic hatred that was portrayed prior to 1994 in Rwanda is something that has taken the world by storm. In 1914, the world engaged in the First World War where you had allies and in the Second World War, the same thing happened. When I make a deep analysis Mr. President, it was a war based on ethnicity more than anything else because we had the British on their own being British. We had Italians and the Germans fighting against each other. When the Second World War ended in 1945 Mr. President, in 1948 we had the UN Charter where the world hoped and viewed that the pain that was inflicted by man on another man will never happen again, that is why we had the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Fast-forward to 1994, the same human rights that we enacted in St Francisco in the United States of America were violated where a war that took place over a period of 100 days and wiped out more than one million people was a war once again based on ethnicity where one ethnic group eliminated the other. We had a period of 100 days of manslaughter where even the church was no longer secure. People ran to churches thinking that once they sought refuge in churches, they would be secure but it turned out that the blood of ethnicity became thicker than the blood of Christ and that was seen during that period of 100 days.
Mr. President, the lesson that the people of Rwanda rose from their own obituary as the international community had written off Rwanda. Some of them were quiet, they did not raise alarm and it was only after the Rwandans had taken a decision that they would need home grown solutions to stop and find each other. That is when we had the international community coming in but if you look at the build-up to this ethnic war, you find that the international community was one way or the other directly involved. There was mention of the French who were promoting ethnic cleansing to one ethnic group.
When the war started, the international community as guided by the Universal Charter of Human Rights was quiet. What we also learn is that after the war, there was a UN Peace Mission to Rwanda where international judges were invited to try the perpetrators of violence, killings and manslaughter. However, it is not a one size fits all approach. What you use in the United States is not applicable to Africa and vice versa. So, the Rwandans taught us that you would need to come up with home grown solutions to the problems that do take place in Rwanda.
What impressed us Madam President was that the citizens have a prominent role to play in the governance issues of Rwanda. There is a Citizens’ Report on Governance that is produced yearly where the citizens themselves give Government and its departments ratings on how they have performed in terms of governance. I think that is something that is important. Yes, we are doing it but we would want the citizens to also say look, we have produced a report over and above what Parliament has done in terms of holding Government to account.
Madam President, what we also learnt as a group was that the electoral process in Rwanda accommodates most of the political parties there. It is not the first-past-the-post where the winner takes all. The other parties are accommodated because if you look at the structure of Parliament, if party X provides as the majority in that House, they provide for the President of the Senate. It is therefore given that the other party has to nominate a Deputy President of Senate and this perhaps could be one of the reasons as to why there is inclusivity in their politics.
Madam President, we were also impressed by the police. You know, as Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa alluded, that we had the whole command of the police coming to welcome a very small delegation which showed how serious and determined they were in service delivery. Madam President, we were charmed by their appearance. You know, the Rwandese police are very smart. Their uniforms are very attractive; you can see and feel that I am talking to a police officer and that I feel is something that we should emulate. In developing a code for our police Madam President, we can emulate. You know, before you talk to somebody, your attire speaks volumes. I think women in this House can attest to the fact that when you see a man, one of the key things they look at is whether this man is attractive in terms of attire and that we realised with the Rwandese police. They also mentioned that they are held accountable by the citizens of Rwanda and they have played a prominent role in peacekeeping missions in Africa and the Hon. Chairman has alluded to this.
One of the fundamentals that we discovered was that there is adequate funding to Government departments including that of security sectors which enables them to carry out their mandate of providing security because Madam President, Rwanda is one of those countries that is very peaceful. I recall when we drove into town from the airport; I think it was around 0200hrs; we came across a woman walking alone in town. When we enquired, we were informed that Rwanda is peaceful such that people are able to walk at night without any fear. I do not know whether people can walk in Zimbabwe at that time of the night without being mugged or being robbed. I think it is a challenge Madam President to our police that they would also need to up their provision of security.
Madam President, we have seen a surge in robbery; something that was unheard of in Zimbabwe. It is becoming a culture where people participate in robbery. It no longer matters whether you are in major centres, small towns, rural areas or at the border; robberies have become so rampant. It is my appeal that the Government should review its policy towards criminals because we have cases where the police force has lost members in the execution of their roles. I strongly feel that the police should be protected; when push comes to shove, they have a sacrosanct duty of also protecting life as much as providing security. So Madam President, it is important that we strive as Parliament to ensure that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development gives adequate money to the security sector among other sectors of Government in ensuring that they carry out their mandate.
Madam President, Rwanda is an envy when it comes to women empowerment. As alluded to by the presenter of this report, where the Parliament of Rwanda has more than 61% of women in Parliament, it is not only in Parliament but in all key decision making positions of Government and the private sector. I think that is something that we can emulate. I know we have taken strides, and have made measures to ensure that the sunset clause that was there where women had seats reserved carries on without any hindrance.
Madam President, as alluded to by Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa, this was a benchmarking visit. You know, as you exchange notes, you also realise how far you were born as a Parliament and how far you were born as Senate. One of the key fundamentals that we realised was that as part of our home grown solutions, Hon. Senators would agree with me that in 2013, we came up with a home grown Constitution which was driven by this Parliament. It gives a sense of ownership and we have a duty of holding Government to account, an oversight function and making laws for our country. I think that is very important.
Madam President, I will not dwell much on the home grown solutions that the presenter has done but I would want to say that, in order to enhance or to achieve democracy, there is need to improve institutional cooperation in areas of internal security. I know we have taken strides as a country, and Rwanda has also taken strides that we need to develop key institutions in the security sector so that we are able to achieve the role of presenting security in our country.
Last but not least Madam President, we learnt as a delegation that Rwanda has zero tolerance to corruption. Anyone who is seen to be flouting the laws of the country engaging in corrupt practices is promptly sent to jail. I know as Zimbabwe, we have taken strides in fighting the scourge of corruption. It is my learned view that Madam President, let us resource institutions that have a constitutional obligation of fighting corruption.
Madam President, with those very few words, I would want to thank you for the opportunity that you have given me but in ending, it would be remiss of me not to quote the Bible. In the book of 2 Corinthians 13:11, it talks about love because love is one of those key pillars of peace. It says, this is Paul in his letter to the Corinthians, he says aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind and live in peace. It is my view that in whatever we do, we should be of one mind. We may have divergent views, we might think - we might see things differently but Paul says be of one mind and live in peace. If we have a peaceful country, I know peace begins at home and transcends to where we are. We are able to train because most youths are engaging in heinous acts, they have gone against the spirit of ubuntu. If we do not take action as adults, we would have failed our youths. We need to build a certain environment for our youths. The late President Franklin Roosevelt of the United States on the 20th September 1940 when he was addressing students at the University of Pennsylvania said, ‘we cannot always build the future for our youth but we can build our youth for the future’.
I know there is a misconception that we want to build a future for our youths, we cannot build that future because that future does not belong to us. We live in the present; what we can do is to empower our youth. One way of empowering our youth for the future is giving them a peaceful environment so that they have something to hold and dream for in the future. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 51ST PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 51st Plenary of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICE OF COUNTER TERRORISM HIGH LEVEL CONFERENCE HELD IN ITALY
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism High Level Conference on Parliamentary Support to victims of terrorism.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NKOMO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU seconded by HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA, the House adjourned at Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 27th September, 2022
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ANNUAL CHARITY GOLF DAY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Parliament of Zimbabwe will be hosting the Annual Charity Golf Day on Friday, 30th September, 2022 at the Police Golf Club. Hon. Members are encouraged to form teams that will participate at this event. For further details, Hon. Members may contact Mr. Nyamuramba on Extension 2143.
*HON. RAIDZA: I rise on a point of national interest. Regarding the golf notice, I am the Captain of the Golf Club, those who are interested should contact us then we teach them. Madam Speaker, I stood up to appreciate the job that is being done by our Government under the leadership of His Excellency President Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa. I want to appreciate the job which is underway for the past two to three months which allows Zimbabweans to get their IDs and birth certificates. This is a job which has proliferated to other areas like Tsholotsho and other remote areas of the country where the same people were given an opportunity to get the national identifications cards. We appreciate this initiative which was brought by the Government. In the past few years, it was very difficult for people to get such documents which are critical, to get a birth certificates and IDs. This is a good initiative even as we head towards the 2023 elections, we believe that Government is doing a noble thing - so that every Zimbabwean national gets the opportunity to register to vote during the elections. This is a good thing which we appreciate, even the other challenges which were faced by people in accessing IDs have been eliminated and we appreciate that. We thank our Government and I would like to implore His Excellency and his Executive to continue doing the good job. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Raidza, we need to appreciate the good things that are happening.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I want to add my voice on what Hon. Raidza said.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sorry Hon. Member, your name is not on the list.
*HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Hon. Nyabani has started telling other Members to sit down. We cannot tolerate this anymore. He, went to Germany with Hon. Wadyajena, you were given USD4 000. So enjoy sitting there, you must respect the Chair, watch him Hon. Madam Speaker. We do not want to waste time here.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I do acknowledge the good outcome of the programme that was mentioned by Hon. Raidza. I want to bring to your attention that on the same subject, there was a request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of Home Affairs that was raised by Hon. James Sithole from Makokoba Constituency. He was promised that a Ministerial Statement was going to be issued here in Parliament. He had raised concerns with the difficulties that were being faced by people in taking IDs and birth certificates. When is that Ministerial Statement coming, because if we are now giving a counter statement full of praises as if there are no challenges, we are contradicting ourselves as a Parliament? I do request that whilst we acknowledge the statement that he has given, we also want to see the Ministerial Statement coming here to Parliament so that Hon. Members who are facing challenges with the people in their constituencies failing to get IDs and birth certificates are given the chance to also question the Minister. This will enable us to also join hands with Hon. Raidza to give a fair praise to what would actually be good by then but as for now, we cannot join hands with him until the Ministerial Statement has been delivered to this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Hamauswa. May I ask the Hon. Deputy Chief Whip to remind the responsible Minister to bring the Ministerial Statement to the House? Thank you.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is common knowledge that Zimbabwe was heavily hit and up to this day we still feel the remains of COVI-19, especially over the past three years. As a result, we have seen our nation almost losing hope about whether our children were going to write examinations during the COVID-19 era. It is at this point in time that I would like to say there is some sign of good relief with the beginning of Grade 7 examinations. We have witnessed that the nation is excited and even hoping to get better results than in the previous years because the atmosphere looks quite good and a lot has been done to ensure that COVID-19 does not affect the general learning and writing of examinations of our children.
We hope the same scenario is going to happen when we go for ‘O’ and ‘A’ level examinations. I would like to applaud all stakeholders that participated in ensuring that there is a lot of control, especially in schools. The education system, our ZRP, the health sector and above all, the Government of Zimbabwe which actually came up with prudent policies that made sure we were going to control the COVID-19 scourge. I want to also finally say the President, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa needs to continue keeping up to make sure that we have got such policies that serve our people whenever there is a disaster. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I stood up to talk about a concerning issue which pertains to the abuse of drugs and perpetrators of drug related crimes. They are just detained and they pay fines and are set free. I would like to implore this august House to introduce punitive laws, especially looking at what is happening in the rural areas, you find the rural populace being taught bad cultures because there are no punitive laws. So my request is that there must be punitive laws which will deter any perpetrators. Thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Moyo but you raised a very pertinent issue. I would like to urge you to ask this during the Question and Answer segment tomorrow why there are no punitive laws for drug related crimes. Thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker, I will do that.
HON. BITI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My point of national interest relates to pensions. As you know, in March of 2007, the Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry into conversion of people’s pension funds presented its report. That report made several recommendations after finding that Zimbabweans had lost pensions to the total value of USD5.86 billion as a result of a weak regulatory framework by IPEC, the Insurance Pension Commission of Zimbabwe, the scandalous and greedy behaviour of insurance houses and terrible macro-economic environment, including inflation that had risen to 500 billion percent.
So effectively, Justice Smith recommended that there be compensation for pensioners, teachers, headmasters and workers who had worked from 1980 and served through their pensions but their pensions were wiped out. Six/Seven years later, those recommendations have not been put into practice. There is also a second group of pensioners. These are people who saved their money from 2009 when the economy had dollarized, pay their pensions in USD, but suddenly after February of 2019, with the enactment of Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019, greedy pension houses like Old Mutual and First Mutual are now paying those pensioners in paltry ZW$.
So, I make the point that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development must, as a matter of urgency, come up with a law that puts into effect the Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry recommendations and secondly, that same law must deal with the pensioners who have lost their USD savings, those who started making pension contributions from 2009 in USD including Hon. Members of this august House. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Biti. You have raised a very important issue but I encourage you to bring a motion to this House concerning that issue so that Hon. Members will debate and adopt the motion. Thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Every Zimbabwean national has a democratic right to be protected by the law to move freely around the country. On the 15th March, 2015, a certain man who was a reporter and used to write, Itai Dzamara, was taken by unknown people and this issue was taken up to Government structures and Government communicated that they were investigating the disappearance. The Hon. Minister came to this august House and promised the House that investigations were in progress, so they ascertain his whereabouts, but until now there is no feedback to the august House.
The Dzamara family is still in pain because in our traditions, there are things that should be done when a person is lost or that person is dead because the issue is still within the hands of the police and the Government. The family does not have closure regarding their child and for them to have closure there must be communication as to whether Itai Dzamara disappeared for good or what happened. So, like what the Minister of Home Affairs promised, there must be an explanation regarding the investigations. There must be a statement to this august House to communicate to the nation and the Dzamara family that Dzamara is dead so that when his children need birth certificates and assistance, the family should seek assistance knowing that the investigations were completed. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. I urge you to pose your question during the Question and Answer segment to the Minister of Home Affairs tomorrow so that he responds to your question regarding the investigation since he promised
*HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order. The Hon. Minister informed the House that he will bring a Ministerial Statement. This is not an issue which we should continue talking about the same things, asking him and responding. We need to know how far the investigation has gone. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. If he has promised then I will ask the Deputy Chief Whip to remind him to bring that Ministerial Statement.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, just to add to this - there is actually a court order, if I am not mistaken, which says we must be updated from time to time. So it is really in compliance with the court order. The Minister has not been able to comply with the court order because this is a matter of national interest which went before the courts. The Minister has got to comply with the court order. It is not a matter of even asking him to do us a favour but he is complying with the laws of the country. So, may be if he needs to be reminded about it that there is a court order to that, I think he would also realise that he cannot be seen to be in contempt. It is a very serious issue, inofanira kupera nyaya yacho nokuti vari kuramba vachichema, tisingazivi kuti munhu mupenyu kana kuti haasi mupenyu. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. The Hon. Minister will be reminded to come and update this august House.
Time for one-minute statements on issues of national interest was interrupted by the HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 62 (2).
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 29 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 30 has been disposed of.
HON. TEKESHE: I second. -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUSHORIWA: I need clarification. Madam Speaker, the purpose of order in the House, we have got a number of Bills on the Order Paper. We come prepared and we just want to find out from the Government side, where are the Ministers, Acting Ministers and Deputy Ministers so that at least we dispose of some of the Bills? Some of them have been outstanding for more than seven months. Today is Government Business. We expect Government Business to go on.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 26.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY NETWORK AGAINST CORRUPTION (APNAC) ON THE BENCHMARKING VISIT TO KENYA
HON. T. MLISWA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the First Report of the African Parliamentary Network Against Corruption (APNAC) on the Benchmarking Visit to Kenya.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: 1.0 INTRODUCTION
1.1 The Executive Committee of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC), Zimbabwe Chapter, conducted a benchmark visit to the Kenyan APNAC Chapter in Kenya from the 6th to the 10 of June 2022. The APNAC Chair wishes to extend his gratitude to Parliament of Zimbabwe and African Development Bank for availing resources to ensure that the trip became successful. The Zimbabwean delegation comprised of the following:
- Hon Temba Mliswa, APNAC Chairperson and Head of Delegation
- Hon Willias Madzimure,
- Hon Paurina Mpariwa,
- Hon Trevor Saruwaka,
- Hon Misheck Mataranyika,
- Hon Colletta Mutambisi,
- Hon Precious Chinhamo-Masango,
- Tapiwa Chiremba,
- Angeline Gutu
- Beverley Chinyama.
2.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE BENCHMARK VISIT
The purpose of the benchmark visit was largely to understand the laws and institutions relied upon in Kenya in the fight against corruption. Secondly, the visit also sought to appreciate the work APNAC Kenya is undertaking in the fight against corruption.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The delegation had the opportunity to meet the following
stakeholders:-
- APNAC Kenya Chapter,
- The Parliamentary Justice and Legal Committee
- The Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC)
- Transparency International – Kenya
- Civil Society Organization (Mzalendo Trust)
4.0 FINDINGS
4.1 APNAC Kenya Chapter
The APNAC Kenya Chapter is led by Hon Shakeel Shabbir Ahmed and he has been Chairperson of the Chapter for 14 years. The President of APNAC Africa is currently the Speaker of the Parliament of Kenya, Hon Muturi and the Secretariat for APNAC Africa is based in Ghana. Hon Ahmed outlined activities and some of the challenges faced by APNAC Kenya.
APNAC Kenya is largely involved in lobbying for laws and policies on anti-corruption. This is achieved through motions and questions that are raised in Parliament. Some of the challenges faced by APNAC Kenya include the limited financial resources and recognition status of APNAC Kenya within Parliamentary Structures.
APNAC Kenya is not officially recognized within the structures of Parliamentary Administration - hence, whenever it has activities it has to beg the Administration of Parliament for resources to do its work, for example, attending global conferences on corruption. Hon Ahmed encouraged the Zimbabwean delegation to ensure that its Chapter is institutionalized so that it is better organized to receive technical and financial support from the Administration of Parliament and from other development partners. Furthermore, at a continental level, APNAC is not incorporated in any of the continental bodies such as the African Union.
Therefore, its status and work might not be fully appreciated by the African leaders. However, in order to strengthen APNAC Africa, Hon Ahmed highlighted that his country was working with Uganda and Tanzania, where they formed a non-profit body, which is able to receive funding for the 3 countries and to spearhead APNAC programmes as a regional grouping. Zimbabwe was encouraged to do the same, by forming a SADC regional body for APNAC, which will then be able to receive funding for the grouping and to spearhead anti-corruption activities collectively. Hon Ahmed also told the visiting delegation that APNAC Kenya works with the Global Parliamentarians Against Corruption (GOPAC), and attends various conferences organized by GOPAC.
On membership of APNAC Kenya, Hon Ahmed outlined that they were not concerned with having many legislators in its grouping. What was of critical importance was the quality of people who joined APNAC Kenya.
4.2 Parliamentary Committee of Justice.
APNAC Zimbabwe had an opportunity to meet the Kenyan Parliamentary Committee of Justice. The Justice Committee has an oversight role over one of the key institutions in the fight against corruption, the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission. The EACC is equivalent to the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission (ZACC). Some of the key highlights of that meeting included the following:
- One-third of the nation’s income is lost through corruption. The President of Kenya, Uhuru Kenyatta was on record saying that
the country had lost close to 2 billion shillings, which is equivalent to USD200 million through corruption in the last few years.
- In the process high ranking officials in government such as the Minister of Finance and Governors have been arrested for corruption charges.
- The EACC has a responsibility to vet any aspiring candidates for Public Office and for the forthcoming Kenyan elections to be held in August 2022, there were 241 candidates disqualified to stand for public office due to various reasons.
- EACC does not have prosecuting powers and in the process the agency is considered as weak in its drive to fight corruption. Prosecuting powers are the preserve of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
- Legal practitioners are obligated to report cases where they suspect their client is involved in money laundering. If a lawyer does not do so, they risk losing their practicing certificate.
- In Kenya they have a Witness Protection Agency which receives funding from Government to protect witnesses who report corruption.
- APNAC Kenya works with various civil society organizations under the banner known as Civil Society Parliament Engagement Network.
4.3 Transparency International Kenya
Transparency International Kenya works with APNAC Kenya on various programs which include the support for legal reforms on the anti-corruption agenda. Legal reforms were identified as critical in the fight against corruption because Sub-Saharan Africa scored the lowest in the Corruption Perception Index for 2021. The presenter outlined that some of the challenges in the fight against corruption include ineffective institutions and weak democratic values.
Transparency International - Kenya published a research on Bribery Perception Index in Kenya and some of the most corrupt institutions in Kenya in their order of ranking included the Judiciary, police, and land services. The presentation highlighted that the Government reports of losing close to 30 % of its national budget annually due to corruption. To this end CSOs conduct various awareness programs and provide legal research to legislators.
Although in Kenya has various laws to fight corruption, the presenter lamented the fact that there was little enforcement by the agencies and at times the anti-corruption agencies fail to work together to fight corruption. At one point the agencies took each other to court.
Another challenge cited by the presenter was the lengthy judicial process for corruption cases as well as the lack of political will and financial support to key anti- corruption agencies. Some of the recommendations that emerged from the presentations included the need to devolve anti-corruption matters to local government structures as well as to ensure that law-enforcement agencies implement anti-corruption laws to their fullest.
4.4 Mzalendo Trust
The CSO has been in existence for over 17 years and monitors Parliament debates on corruption. The presenter explained that the CSO is actively involved in the monitoring of legislative proposals on anti-corruption and the CSO works collaboratively with APNAC Kenya. The CSO also convenes various meetings with like-minded organizations to highlight and actively call out corruption. Some of the laws that have been considered for review by Mzalendo Trust include the Leadership and Integrity Amendment Bill (2020), Lifestyle Bill (2021) and Election (Amendment) Bill, 2022.
Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) of Kenya
The EACC works with various State and non-State actors in the fight against corruption. One of the major challenges faced by the EACC is that they do not have prosecution powers. The mandate of EACC includes investigating corruption and economic crimes as well as promoting public awareness and education against corruption. The presenter outlined that they receive about 300 reports daily on corruption but they do not have enough resources to deal with each case.
However, the cases received are prioritized according to their impact and value, for example cases involving high political figures or those involving a lot of money are prioritized. The presenter went on to explain that between 2018 – 2021, the EACC concluded 501 investigations on corruption. The Commission also managed to recover assets worth USD228 million and averted loss of USD325 million.
The Commission has a responsibility to vet persons before they assume public office. So far EACC has concluded Integrity Suitability Verification of close to 48 000 candidates for public office.
Some of the challenges faced by EACC include the following:
- Slow judicial process. A case can take up to 10 years to conclude.
- Influence of politicians and ethnicity issues. Some people accused of corruption try to hide under the banner of political or ethnicity persecution.
- Budgetary constraints to adequately conduct its work.
- Inadequate and ineffective legal framework.
5.0 Observations
- Kenya has made stride efforts to enact various laws in the fight against corruption such as Bribery Act, Public Officers Ethics Act, Leadership and Integrity Act, Lifestyle Act as well as Witness Protection Act.
- There is relative independence by the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission, noticed by success in prosecuting high level cases involving Government Officials.
- The Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission assets recovery strategy is effective resulting in Government being able to recover some of the public funds.
- APNAC-Kenya and Civil Society Organizations have collaborated effectively in the fights against corruption.
6.0 Recommendations
- APNAC Zimbabwe should be incorporated within the structures of Parliament Administration, for instance, it should be recognized as a Parliamentary Caucus.
- APNAC Zimbabwe should spearhead the process of forming a SADC regional group of APNAC.
- Zimbabwe should consider enacting the following laws to strengthen its legal framework; Bribery Act, Public Officers Ethics Act, Leadership and Integrity Act, Lifestyle Act as well as Witness Protection Act.
- APNAC should conduct awareness programs in various parts of the country, so that more people are involved in the fight against corruption.
7.0 Conclusion
The APNAC Zimbabwe is very much committed to take part in the fight against corruption. The major functions of Parliament are law-making, oversight and representation and APNAC Zimbabwe will endeavour at all times to ensure that adequate laws and budgetary support is given to key institutions of Government to enable them to effectively conduct their work in combating corruption. Already the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has made a commitment to enact the Whistle blowers and Witness Protection Act before this session of Parliament ends. The APNAC Zimbabwe Chapter would like to express its gratitude to the Parliament of Zimbabwe and the African Development Bank for the support that it gave to conduct this benchmark visit. Gratitude must also go to the Kenyan Parliament and APNAC Kenyan for their willingness to host the Zimbabwean delegation. Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me start by thanking you for affording me this opportunity to support the report which is quite comprehensive which was presented by our Chairperson Hon. Mliswa. I decided to speak in vernacular because the report is comprehensive. I would like to touch on a number of issues that were not covered. Let me start by saying that for us as the Zimbabwean delegation to go with our Secretariat is really commendable. I would like to thank Parliament of Zimbabwe and we appreciate that.
I would also like to thank God who protected us because no one came back ill. Looking at what the Chairperson alluded to, there were a number of issues that he mentioned which are similar to the Kenyan challenges, because APNAC is not in the structures of Parliament. It is independent but the challenge with independence is that you are found to be neglected without a proper budget and without enough resources. We also face a similar problem because we do not have our own resources. These challenges are not unique to them but we also have similar challenges. I appreciate that we were given a few from the parliamentary Secretariat. We both do not have money.
My second point is that APNAC Chairperson has been in office for the past 14 years in Kenya which means he is experienced in building relationships with the civil society and other stakeholders so that APNAC Kenya can expedite the responsibilities that they are given. He is also a revered member of the community. When we were discussing with him, there were a number of Members of Parliament and the Vice Speaker of Kenya, which means that this was a well organised meeting and the APNAC Kenya Executive is respected.
Madam Speaker, allow me to say that APNAC is known and those who support APNAC do so on a voluntary basis. This is the same thing in Zimbabwe because we are similar. However, there are so many people who support it in Kenya who are not Members of Parliament, but here you find only a few who support it even for those who are not Members of Parliament. These are areas which need to be looked into. For those who were part of Parliament and those who are no longer Members of Parliament, there is need for us to consult them because they are experienced.
Let me go to my third point which was mentioned during our visit regarding anti-corruption initiatives. There was an indication that when the former President of Kenya, President Uhuru, issues of corruption were mainstreamed, people were free to talk about them and they were not confidential issues because this helps in making sure that proper investigations are carried out. When we came back from activities in the evening, you would find every candidate would speak passionately about corruption which means that this is something which can be discussed openly. About 241 candidates were barred by EACC of Kenya to stand as candidates and Members of Parliament because there were allegations of corruption against those 241 candidates. This is a lesson that for someone who has corruption charges, if we could copy and implement that especially for those who are considered to be corrupt, they should not be allowed to stand.
The Chairperson also spoke about the lack of funding. If there is no funding it is difficult to do the different roles that we are expected to do. The civil society of Kenya works with the Hon. Members of that Committee in Kenya. They came to support and they spoke about the different regions and what is transpiring in those regions. So my request is that we maintain that relationship so that we understand how they operate and also look at the laws, information, communication and dissemination, investigations and other processes because this can be done in partnerships through the different funding mechanisms.
If given money as Parliament, sometimes we need the input of civil society. The civil society in Kenya works hand-in-hand with APNAC. It is a permanent relationship and even the whistle blowers are operational in that country. My desire is that we need to build such relationships. You remember when we spoke about the PVO, we agreed that it is not that all civil society organisations are bad and so, we need to understand that we need the civil society. There are some who are good who can work together with us because we do not have the money. Kenya has a witness protection agent which is responsible for protecting witnesses. They have institutions which shelter witnesses and they protect them against victimisation. This is good because if we have such institutions, they can do their job properly. We heard the Chairperson saying that you find some cases which dragged for ten years or more. So when engaging the Kenyans, we asked whether there were previous cases which were dealt with and they said that there were ministers who were arrested and some who were incarcerated after being arrested. You would see that they are working very hard to eliminate corruption.
In the 2021 index, they say that in the Sub-Sahari Africa, we are rated as the most corrupt country in the region. This is a picture which has been depicted to the people. So the onus is upon us as Government to consider cleaning up the image of the country through engaging the different departments which have been given the task of eliminating corruption, for instance ZACC, NPA and other Government arms. The EACC also mentioned that in 2018, they concluded 521 cases, it is important for ZACC to go and exchange notes with EACC so that they see and understand how the Kenyans are dealing with corrupt cases.
In conclusion, let me say that Madam Speaker, we proffered several recommendations and I believe that these should be implemented so that we eliminate corruption. Looking at the Kenya case study, it took a lot of resources and money, and I believe that these resources are needed for implementation also because we cannot just go on benchmarking visits and adopt without expediting what is expected from us as a watchdog. It is my desire to see these recommendations being taken up and the different laws being applied in the elimination and eradication of corruption.
Civil servants who deal with cases should be paid decent salaries, because from the case study, we discovered that lawyers can decide not to represent a person for their case exhibits corruption tendencies. As APNAC, it is our desire to see the four recommendations being implemented and this will help us as Government in our quest for integrity. This will allow Parliament to exercise its watchdog role. I thank you.
*HON. B. DUBE: Thank Madam Speaker Ma’am. I was not there but I am a member of APNAC. I am happy because of the report. We are very happy that we have Committees that when they are sent out, they give a report on how they have travelled and what they witnessed.
It is now clear that corruption also fights back, which means if we want to fight corruption as a country, we must show it by the support that we are giving to people who are fighting corruption in the country. Firstly, the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) - according to our Constitution, police has a primary mandate to refer and prosecute those who are doing corruption. However, I think people forget that they are supposed to be resourced very well so that they will be able to fulfill their mandate.
So, it is my wish that adding to the recommendations, I think the ZRP and its departments, including the duty uniform and those CID should be given enough resources so that they will be able to fight corruption. We also desire that all our police force should be able to fight corruption even in the state they are in but they do not have transport. Their offices do not have equipment. We all know that corruption is called a ‘white collar job’. So what it means is that the police that we are training are supposed to further their trainings in line with how the thieves are getting new skills. So, the police should also get new skills so that they would be able to understand the current skills of thieves and corrupt people.
Our Government should help by bringing a housing policy which is viable so that police officers will have accommodation. They should also be allocated stands; NBS and other banks, and our Government should be a major guarantor so that our civil servants, especially the police will get accommodation. You will find that corrupt people are the ones who have accommodation and our police are renting the properties of thieves. So how can they confront the people who are accommodating them? If they are accommodated well, they would not be tempted and also if they have reliable transport they will not be tempted to engage in corruption as well.
Government should provide soft loans so that they can buy their own cars. We should also extend this to the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA). Prosecutors are Government lawyers. They stand in for Government in courts of law. The lawyers who would have been hired by those who would have been incarcerated are well paid by those criminals so that they can work hard to win cases. They do researches because they are motivated. On the opposite, you find that Government prosecutors, when they are representing people, are worried of missing public transport, so they do not do their work wholeheartedly. At times, they are given transport by the criminals. There are cases that are just thrown out.
I can give you an example. I was once a prosecutor and that was my first job. I left the job because of the embarrassment that we received. Each and every day there are new cases that are brought to the courts but you will be using outdated information. Private lawyers are motivated, they would have researched and they know what is happening internationally. I left the job because of the frustration that I was facing.
I think we should also come up with a resolution that conditions of service for our prosecutors should be reviewed. In South Africa, Botswana and other countries, it is not easy to become a prosecutor. People are running away from the private sector and they prefer to work for the public sector. There is no need for them to be tempted because their conditions of service are good. If you visit the prosecutors’ offices in Zimbabwe, they do not have laptops and even desktops.
If you want to deal with corruption, our prosecutors have no need to look for employment in the private sector. We should resource the public prosecutor so that they have good accommodation. If someone is given a loan payable in 20 years, they will not leave that employment even if they are offered other jobs. What a person wants is security for his family and children. Even if they do not get exorbitant salaries but you give them accommodation and good transport, they will stay on their jobs. We know that many civil servants are patriotic. They really want to work in Zimbabwe but the main hindrance is that there are no tools of trade so that they will be competitive. Some of them do not have WiFi so they cannot argue with someone who has researched.
Just to add onto what our Chairperson alluded to, we should improve the conditions of service for our prosecutors. We are also supposed to be serious as a Government. At the moment, we do not have the NPA board in place. Promotions are not happening because that board is not in place. There are no directors, so in that case, how can we motivate our workers? Those are some of the issues that we should look at. Our fight against corruption is only demonstrated by a financial commitment so that we equalise those in the private and the public sector.
Madam Speaker, I want to thank the representatives of Parliament, the whole team and the Hon. Speaker for permitting the team to go out. At times, we do not get the permission to go out. We are happy because some of us got permission. We should put conditions of service that show seriousness. We should not just limit it to rallies. The fight against corruption requires financial commitment. With these few words, I want to thank you.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let me add my voice to this crucial issue which is really affecting us as a people. This is an issue which does not need pointing of fingers and blame shifting on the prosecutors, police, banks, schools and other institutions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not connected Hon. Member.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I wanted to say that for us to eliminate corruption, we do not have to shift blame. This august House should work very hard in eliminating corruption. We have three pillars of State and we should play our part as Parliament.
Let me give you my view point regarding corruption. Firstly, I am not shifting blame but I am stating facts. If you do not pay the police officer enough money and you give him money to keep as a steward, you do not expect him to look after the money. Then at the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission, how many people have been found to be guilty of corruption but we expect them to arrest and prosecute those who steal and those who engage in corrupt activities yet we find corrupt activities happening at the Commission? At this front and back row from the left side and the right side, everyday you find corruption happening within those who are supposed to eliminate corruption.
In Zimbabwe, we get most of our revenue from the mining fraternity and from the agriculture sector. The Mining Commissioner or the one who was given that responsibility is getting US$100 plus US$75 plus an RTGS salary a month. The mines that he is registering, that he is inspecting and forfeiting and expected to demolish are rich mines which span into millions of United States dollars. A billion is a lot. If someone gives that official US$1000 on top of the money that he is earning, do you expect anything to come from that official? So this is our fault, this is our responsibility because we are Government.
I do not see opposition in Government but I see Government with those who won and those who did not take the first position, but in this august House, we make the Government. Madam Speaker, I am hurt because some things that are happening are out of this world because of the gap which is found in our civil service. We need to pay our workers well, then promulgate laws. We would then say - look John we have given you what you deserve, so stop corrupt activities.
Those who are found engaging in corruption should be disciplined. We were told in grade 7 that the Bible says ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’. We need to discipline people. People should be arrested. When we go to the courts, for us who are in the rural areas, we do not have judges but we have magistrates. How much is a magistrate earning? It is shocking because they are getting USD$175. This is what they are getting. Then you would find for instance Hon. Temba Mliswa is being accused or Hon. Matangira is being accused of a US$650 000 case; the accused might approach the magistrate and offer them a car and fuel. Do you think the outcome of that case would be correct, would be done in a just manner or it would be compromised?
So this august House should not say that we have given police officers laws to apply to different cases, whether it is the police or ZACC. If I tell you the different corruption cases that are at ZACC, even the names, there is a lot of corruption and there is nothing that you can do about those people. We must not differentiate Parliamentarians, the ruling party and the others who are called the opposition but in this august House, we are Government, we are together and we need to unite. We need to work together and speak strongly expressing what we want to happen, what we want to see happening especially during the question and answer session, posing these questions to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and other Ministers.
When moving a motion, we need to move a motion which says we want to end corruption instead of pointing fingers. Madam Speaker, when reading different pages, when you open to a certain page going to the next, you do not go backwards. What happened is history. Let us look at the future because we cannot be retrogressive by focusing on the past.
Looking at the 2013 elections and other elections, let us look at the future; let us plan for the future. Madam Speaker, I believe that this issue is not a one-man issue. Taking it as individuals might compromise such issues. Other countries look at Zimbabwe and some say Zimbabwe is not developing because of corruption. Who is corrupt? We are corrupt. These are Parliamentarians because the fingers which point at the other person, one points to the front and the other three to you who is pointing. In majority of democracies, the three are pointing to you as an individual.
Madam Speaker, let us pay our workers enough money, whether it is ZIMRA officials at the border posts or whoever. These people are engaging in corrupt activities because they do not have money, they do not earn decent salaries. This is not because it is a cancer but it is because they are earning peanuts. The money that they earn is not enough to sustain their lives.
We also were earning peanuts as MPs. If we were earning peanuts as MPs, you would find the CDF compromised. The reason why the CDF is working properly is because there are mechanisms to monitor the use of the utility of the CDF. If we put such safeguards, then we can eliminate corruption. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Madam Speaker. First of all, I want to thank the precise and very informative report that was given by the Chair of APNAC. The issue of corruption is right at the centre of economic collapse, not only in Zimbabwe but in Africa as you have heard from the report that was read by Hon. Mliswa. I am not a member of APNAC but I feel very strongly about the issues that were raised pertaining to the effects of corruption in Africa and in Kenya as we heard from Hon. Ahmed who is the President of APNAC.
I have two or three points to make Madam Speaker. The first one is that whenever you want to solve an equation, one has to look at the roots and when you want to look at corruption, we have to look at what are the causes of corruption, what makes it so pertinent that people want to be corrupt.
Now, turning to corruption in Government, I think the speakers who have spoken, including Hon. Matangira and Hon. B. Dube, spoke so well about various sectors which included mining and also the lower paying of Government. One issue that Hon. Dube spoke about was that we so underpay our Government workers and yet these Government workers run a GDP in excess of USD7 billion. Like what Hon. Matangira was saying, if someone who is being asked to go and investigate a mine that produces over USD2 billion worth of gold, do you think that, that person who is earning a mere USD200 is not going to be attracted by some of the big people in that mine - obviously they are going to be attracted. They are going to be given hotel accommodation, allowances and then that will blind the people.
We are all human, no matter how morally responsible you are, no matter how principled you are, you will be tempted. Our Government workers get so little, they get peanuts. At the end of the day they become compromised by hefty sums which they are offered by business executives. One of the biggest causes of corruption is that as Members of Parliament, we are turning a blind eye too, including the Government agents; we are not asking people for their source of wealth. Do you know how many top of the range vehicles come through our borders everyday? Have we asked those people whether they are paying tax? Has ZIMRA actually checked with those people whether they are paying their fair share of tax? You find that most of those people who bring in USD400 000 worth of cars, who buy aeroplanes - if you look at their tax records, they do not pay tax. Why does ZIMRA not go to them and say listen, where is your tax certificate if you are able to put in a 500 000 dollar car, where is your fair share of tax that you are supposed to pay? You will find that it starts from the bottom. Nothing happens to everybody, they are left scot-free.
If you go to the mining sector, you find that there are so many people who flout in social media and so forth and boast that they have big mines but when you look at the royalties or the income that then comes to the Government, there is nothing. They provide nothing to the fiscus of this country yet those are the same people who are extracting the mineral wealth that we boast that in this country we have 61 precious minerals which are supposed to be giving us wealth as Zimbabwe.
We have just heard that in Muzarabani they have started drilling oil. One would expect in the same thing - may his dear soul rest in peace, the former President Mugabe who once said that of all our diamonds that we discovered in Manicaland, we lost an estimate of USD15 billion. Those diamonds, what did they benefit this country - nothing, so what are you doing and this is where it calls on us as Members of Parliament to now step in. Let us look at every piece of legislation that deals with how wealth is accumulated, how wealth is important and how wealth is transferred and people do not evade tax and they pay their fair share of tax from this country. If we start from there and look all at that legislation, I tell you what, this country will start realising its potential and the money that is going into the Consolidated Revenue Fund will start to increase because people will start to put money where it is supposed to be put. At the moment, we see a lot of robberies taking place around the country. You hear that USD30 000 has been stolen from someone’s house. How does one keep USD30 000 in their house? Is that even legal? So you see that a lot of people, it is either they ship money outside countries to offshore accounts, or they keep money under their mattresses so money does not then circulate to where it is supposed to come and then benefit the ordinary person.
An elderly woman in Rushinga who does not have tomatoes to buy today, that money is supposed to then be put to the budget on social protection. In other countries, a lot of money comes to Government and 22% of GDP is for social protection, for those who cannot cater for themselves. That money would have been used for free education, to pay our pensioners and persons living with disabilities. It does not happen because we kind of legalise corruption and there was an issue that those entities that are charged with actually reporting and investigating corruption are having problems; they have no arresting powers. Police have arresting powers but they have no prosecution powers, so they arrest someone, open a document and hand it over to a sergeant in the police station who knows nothing about it. He starts to read the papers, he is earning 200 dollars and then may contact the person who is being accused and says I am investigating your case here, can you come to the police station. That person goes with his Rolls-Royce and says let us meet at the hotel because we do not want to come there. The police officers take a lift and they are put in a hotel and are pampered. They are asked how much they want and they say we are trying to do our job and they are given a brown envelope with USD20 000. Do you think that the police officer is going to carry out further investigations - he will not. They are given something which they do not have. So, this is where corruption starts.
We need to find a solution in this House on how best to curb corruption as a country. How do we nip this issue in the bud to ensure that all this money that is being lost to corruption comes back to benefit, not just us? I was in Kadoma one day and I will always say this, I told a certain gentleman that my journey from Kadoma City Centre to the mine - the roads are absolutely terrible but I see you with very massive cars here, why do you not put tar; he said no, no, we are here to eat money, that is.
This is the problem that we find ourselves in as a country. When we talk about corruption, it is not just about us, it is about our children, grandchildren and the future of all those people who will come after us. That is the culture that we want to correct and make sure that we prepare an order for them one day. Thank you.
*HON. RAIDZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this report which has been tabled by Hon. Mliswa on how he travelled to Kenya on a benchmark visit. We heard what he saw in Kenya and we learnt a lot from his report. What we have learnt is that the fight against corruption is a big job which should not be for someone but it should be for everyone, especially those who are in this House and those who are outside. In fact, the whole country as the President always says that he does not like corruption. Corruption hinders the progress of a nation.
So the ways of fighting corruption should be investigated and researched so that we come up with solutions and avoid loopholes as a country. Corruption is a thing that is bad in this country. Wherever there is a person, it is very difficult and that is why we have big and small guns because we have to fight people. In this war of fighting corruption, we have heard Hon. Mliswa saying that it is a war that everyone should be engaged in. We should come up with proper ammunition so that we look at our laws which we have right now and close all the loopholes so that those who are found on the wrong side should not find any scapegoat when they are in court, and they end up coming back but consciously they will be aware that they committed a crime.
Some of us find corruption as a way of getting rich and to some of us, it is a like a business. I want to say to this august House that corruption is not a business. Corruption is stealing from the poor because if there were funds, they were supposed to help a lot of people in the country and those funds end up in the pocket of one person. We are not improving the nation but we are destroying it. The roads that we use, hospitals and schools that our children go to should be well resourced but this will not happen if we have thieves in our midst because corruption is stealing.
Some want to sanitise and say that corruption is being clever but it is not being clever because those are thieves. People who are corrupt use their intelligence to cover up their footprints but from henceforth, we want to say that as citizens of Zimbabwe, we should think. Suppose there are no policemen and there are no courts, but you as an individual and using your morality, you should just count how many people you have killed. Being corrupt is not different from witchcraft because if you steal from someone, it is like you have killed someone and that is how I see it.
That is why we see our President being serious about corruption so that when we get to 2030, we should be on a better standing. For us to get there in 2030, we should fight corruption. We should be seen to be on the right footing, work well, have a good living and have our clean money. There is still room to say let bygones be bygones but we can change the way that we are viewing corruption so that we can live better lives. Do we ask ourselves the way we are living today - if we leave it to our children, how are they going to live? Also, what inheritance are we leaving for our children?
In support of what has been witnessed in Kenya, you find that this issue of corruption should start with me, you and all of us so that where I am and where we are, all of us should shun corruption. In Zimbabwe, we find that there are a lot of opportunities that if we work hard with our hands, we can live better lives. We were given land, we can farm in that land and we can get our wealth from there. Right now we have mines where you can go and mine and live better lives and also helping the economy of the nation.
Many people have illicit financial flaws because of corrupt activities. We want to encourage this Committee which has been headed by Hon. Mliswa that we should sit down and research on where these loopholes are coming from. In Shona we say half a loaf is better than none. So the little that you do, even some organisations like Trans-International and Anti-Corruption, if we bring that together, it will help us to build our nation. We will move in the vision of our President, His Excellency Dr. Mnangagwa.
We see a lot of people who are being prosecuted. I think we should really put our minds together and think deep so that our country moves forward for the betterment of everyone. If we work hard today, it will be good for our children. Without wasting your time, I just want to say when we were given the opportunity to meet prosecutors as APNAC, we discovered that there are a lot of things that we have to look at as Parliamentarians and other organisations. We really need to understand so that those who are helping the Government in eradicating corruption should not compete but work together in one accord and from what we gathered, you find that it is like what the right hand is doing, the left hand is not aware of .
My encouragement to us today is that all we are working for is one purpose, whether in the judiciary or anti-corruption. Our aim is to fight corruption in Zimbabwe. People should complement each other, not to fight because it is not a competition but it is a question of working together so that we build a corruption free Zimbabwe. There is still an opportunity for us to live in a country which is corruption free. If we continue fighting with the same voice, I think we will conquer the issue of corruption as what is happening in Kenya. Thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to add my voice to the debate on fighting corruption on the motion moved by Hon. T. Mliswa, the Chairperson for APNAC Zimbabwean Chapter. I would want to first acknowledge that all members are speaking with one voice, noting that corruption is actually a cancer in Zimbabwe and it is causing negative effects to the performance of our economy. It also even affects the rating of our country even in terms of attracting foreign investments.
I want to give one example Mr. Speaker Sir, where during the previous republic, we heard that Dangote wanted to come here in Zimbabwe and set up a plant. We heard that because they are some people who requested some advance in a corrupt way, Dangote ended up withdrawing the investment that he wanted to do in Zimbabwe and this is an example of how corruption can actually destroy our country. If you check in countries where Dangote is participating especially in terms of manufacturing of cement like in Zambia, right now Zimbabweans are importing cement from Zambia yet Dangote was supposed to set up a plant which was supposed to be enjoyed by the Zimbabweans. Currently, we sometimes run out of cement. Corruption will end up also pushing investors away from our country. So Mr. Speaker Sir, we can go on and on explaining how corruption is really affecting our people.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to say it is actually unthinkable and unheard of that a country will go three months in poverty after the discovery of diamonds. In Zimbabwe diamonds were discovered early 2000, it is more than 20 years down the line; we are still being affected by poverty. It is something that we should actually think of as Parliamentarians, where are we missing it when we have diamonds? Other speakers have talked about 61 precious minerals. In Zambia, their economy is hinged on one major mineral which is copper. In Botswana, there is one major mineral which is diamond but in Zimbabwe, we have 61 minerals. Where are we missing it? It is because of corruption; we are not able to track even the royalties that are being paid by major mining companies. We know those who are mining platinum they are exporting platinum and it is being processed in South Africa. We know the ore contains may be up to 7 other mineral apart from platinum and this are the things that are known by geologists in Zimbabwe and are know by the officials in the Ministry of Mines. We are not taking any action on those simple practical steps.
If I am going to ask all the Hon. Members that asina kumboita uori for the past two weeks tinogona kushaya kana one. Why I am saying so is because if you go even on our road networks, there is a lot of corruption that is actually taking place and sometimes Hon. Members even see police man being given money but they do nothing. Corruption has become a culture and we are actually adopting this culture. I want to point out something that I have discovered in Zimbabwe, there is something which is very dangerous which is actually a culture of negotiation whereby if you are called by someone say I have a problem here with the police, the first question is varamba kutaurirana here. This is the truth Madam Speaker, whereby people would believe that if you negotiate with the police and officials, the laws are no longer applying and there is this kind of approach where people believe that if you negotiate you are going to be released. Recently, we heard even the Professor of law at the at University of Zimbabwe advising that political parties or leaders should actually negotiate on behalf of Hon. Sikhala for him to be released.
I would not know what he was saying but there is that element that we should put aside the laws governing the issue of bail and we go another step to negotiate. So if we have developed such kind of a system, fighting corruption actually is an uphill task for Zimbabwe because we believe that if someone is entitled to bail and that someone, some people should actually be willing to go and negotiate, yet we are saying if the law says you are entitled to bail, you should deserve to be given bail pending trial. You hear a Professor from the University of Zimbabwe advising that there must be a negotiating process.
Madam Speaker, we should also be able to identify a certain culture that is developing which is very dangerous, that culture of negotiation where you ask have you tried to negotiate, what have they said when you tried to negotiate. It is actually developing and it is standing in the away of fighting corruption in Zimbabwe in such a situation. I therefore, propose that our universities, the Department of Psychology should also come in, in fact all departments not the department of law alone. I know there is a theory called community psychology, community psychologists must also come in because we are now dealing with a problem that is routed now in the community and community psychologists look at the relationship between the individual and the community, what the community expects. The communities should also be conscientised and try to fight corruption from a community perspective.
Our universities should come up with strategies and models on how we can fight corruption in Zimbabwe; it is no longer an issue whereby we must have new legislation, the legislations, laws and institutions we have them but the implementation is where the problem is? So, we need to find out how best corruption can be dealt with in Zimbabwe. I am worried Madam Speaker with the discovery of oil in Muzarabani, I heard that drilling has started I saw pictures on the social media. The first things that came on to my mind are that are we safe if we are drilling oil, the discovery of oil, are we not going to see the repeat of what happened in Chiadzwa? If you go to Chiadzwa, you will find that the mining companies are the most powerful. The people who were in Chiadzwa were actually moved away from their original land. They were given nothing and they are now at Arda Transau, some of them. You will find that they are living in poverty yet of the mineral resources that are being extracted from their own communities; they are getting nothing. You come closer to this town to this place in my own constituency. If you see how gravel is being extracted in Warren Park, the people who are local to mining communities are actually getting nothing and extraction is leaving a trail of environmental challenges like degradation. We have lost precious lives in Warren Park, not even in Chiadzwa. Those who are extracting gravel left deep gullies and pits. They hold water and kids were actually swimming and we have lost precious lives. Things are not being corrected.
If you go to land in Harare, it is another area where you see a brazen way of corruption. It is not about just councilors – [HON. T. MLISWA: Domboshava!] – You have rightfully pointed out Domboshava as an example. Even our planning system, how do you allow 200 square meters in Domboshava where we are supposed to have agro-based stands, for instance, 1 hectare. It is about corruption and it even kills the master plan in Harare. The master plan of Harare, we do not even know whether it still exists or it does not. We are having a challenge of corruption. We have challenges in terms of allocation of land.
Madam Speaker Ma’am because of time, I want to conclude by making a proposal to the Chairperson of APNAC, also to see ways in which our laws can adopt the public trust theory. When I was reading, I found that as a pillar in fighting corruption, the public trust theory allows the Government to look back into the history, to go back to 1893 and say we want to correct the wrongs that were done maybe some 100 years ago. There are some companies that are not paying tax to the Government, the public trust theory can empower our Government to look back even into 1980 and say, maybe this fuel company was not paying tax to the Government and make corrections. As a result, the country will actually benefit.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. Also, I heard that in Kenya, the concept of separation of powers is not a stumbling block to the strength of Parliament. I wish one day, we are going to have Parliamentary reforms. Hon. Matangira said, the solutions will come from this Parliament but at the moment, it seems like our Parliament is not powerful enough to fight corruption and to see that the programmes that are being adopted here are being implemented. Therefore, I propose that we need to start thinking about Parliamentary reforms to make sure that our Parliament is strengthened to the point that if Parliament makes a decision, those decisions are implemented. I submit Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. T. MLISWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the rest of Orders of the Day on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Orders of the Day, Numbers 24, 33 and 30 have been disposed of in that order.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICE OF COUNTER TERRORISM HIGH LEVEL CONFERENCE HELD IN ITALY
HON. T. ZHOU: I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House takes note of the Report of the Delegation to the United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism High- Level Conference on Parliamentary Support to victims of Terrorism Held at Palazzo Montecitorio- Nuova Aula Dei Gruppi Parliamentary Rome, Italy 7-8 June 2022.
HON. TSUURA: I second
HON. ZHOU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me the opportunity to present the Report of the Delegation to the United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism High Level Conference on Parliamentary support to victims of terrorism.
Introduction
The United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism (UNOCT) Programme Office on Parliamentary Engagement, in cooperation with the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCEPA), the Parliamentary Assembly of the Mediterranean (PAM), the African Parliamentary Union (APU) and the Shura Council of the State of Qatar, organized a High-Level Conference on Parliamentary support to victims of terrorism. The Conference took place at Palazzo Montecitorio - Nuova Aula deiGruppiParlamentari in Rome, Italy from 7th to 8th June 2022. The Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security, Hon. Sen. Dr. David P. Parirenyatwa, Member of the African Parliamentary Union (APU) Executive, Hon Tafanana Zhou, MP and Mrs. T. Sukuta, Researcher for the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security, attended the Conference.
The High-Level Conference brought together various stakeholders, including Parliamentarians, Representatives of the United Nations (UN) entities, leading experts, members of regional Parliamentary Assemblies, victims of terrorism, victims’associations and civil society organizations, to discuss the best way for Parliamentarians to address the rights and needs of victims of terrorism and to find tangible legislative measures that can be implemented. The 2019 UN Assembly Resolution 73/305 and the seventh review resolution of the UN Global Counter- Terrorism Strategy adopted in June 2021, urges Member States to strengthen their efforts to support victims and this support ranges from advocacy and solidarity to more practical measures such as capacity building and technical assistance.
Background
Terrorism and violent extremism remain an increasing global threat, which cannot be addressed effectively by military operations and security measures alone. They require a collaborative and multi-dimensional approach amongst the entire international community. Over the past few years, the international community has made real progress in upholding the rights and supporting the needs of victims of terrorism through the adoption of key UN General Assembly resolutions, by providing victims with a greater platform to share their experiences, as well as by placing victims at the forefront of United Nations counter-terrorism efforts. Victims of terrorist acts frequently suffer severe, multiple and life-altering injuries and trauma, akin to harm suffered by victims of grave human rights violations and international crimes. In addition to other forms of reparation, compensation for harm suffered, rehabilitation, and provision of adequate services can play an important role in enabling victims to move on with their lives.
The Main Objective of the Conference
The objective of the High-Level Conference was to find ways for Parliamentarians to address the rights and needs of victims of terrorism and to identify tangible and impactful legislative measures that can be implemented to enact positive change and create lasting impact at the national level, as well as within communities.
Opening Remarks
Mr. Gennaro Migliore, PAM President, Mr. Ettore Rosato, Vice-President of the Italian Chamber of Deputies, Mr. Mauro Miedico, Deputy Director of the UNOCT, Mr. Mohamed Ali Houmed, President of the African Parliamentary Union, and Mr. Reinhold Lopatka, Vice-President of OSCE PA, addressed the Opening Session of the Conference.
Remarks by H.E Mr. Ettore Rosato, Vice President of the Chamber of Deputies of Italy
His Excellency, Mr Rosatto asserted that the threat of terrorism is still present in Italy and in the minds of its citizens. He highlighted that, with regards to the latest attack in Nigeria, nations need to do more and assist in the fight against terrorism. On the Ukrainian war, he noted that he did not expect Europe to have such a war which is destabilising Europe and changing International Relations. He reiterated that Parliamentarians should take action and focus on appropriate legislative tools to face this hideous act of terrorism. His Excellency, Mr. Rosatto affirmed that it is important to strengthen cooperation between Europe, Africa and the Mediterranean, and that there is need for economic, political and cultural collaborations. He further highlighted the importance to come up with common actions to support the victims of terrorism.
Remarks by Mr. Mauro Miedico, Deputy Director, Chief, Special Projects and Innovation Branch (SPIB), UNOCT
Mr Miedico, highlighted that they have developed a number of programs to assist Member States in the fight against terrorism and to add a parliamentary dimension in the fight against terrorism which is essential in all areas of work, the Model Legislative Provision was developed. He noted that the Model Legislative Provision was developed over the last one and half years and was launched in February 2022 in New York. He described that the purpose of developing model legislative provisions was two-fold. First, to serve as a model for the review of existing laws and procedures related to victims of terrorism, in line with recent advances on this subject matter, and to support the development of legislation where legislative gaps exist. Secondly, to systematize and promote the exchange of information regarding existing good practices. He asserted that the development of model legislative provisions was to help Member States draw attention to the urgency of taking concrete steps to protect, assist and support victims of terrorism
Remarks by H.E. Mr. Gennaro Migliore, President, Parliamentary Assembly of the Mediterranean and Member of the Chamber of Deputies of Italy
In his remarks, H.E Mr. Migliore highlighted that terrorism is a multi -dimensional challenge, and providing concrete support should be top priority. He noted the need to adopt resolutions so as to harmonize legislation and come up with internal instruments that support victims of terrorism. He further noted that the Nigerian attack affects everybody, hence it was critical to observe that for each victim of terrorism the sorrow that is felt is the same, and that there is no nationality for victims of horrendous activities. He stated that there is need to rehabilitate and protect women and children. H.E, Mr Migliore is of the view that civil society should be involved in the repatriation of victims and that there is need to raise awareness on conditions of victims especially in camps. He emphasized that Governments should come up with policies to support victims of terrorism and ensure access to justice. He stated that Parliamentary support is essential and therefore, Parliaments should ensure human rights compliance in the criminal justice system. He also reiterated that they have been several terrorist attacks in Italy and the government had come up with strong legislative measures to protect victims in that country.
Remarks by Hon. Abdellah bin NacerAlsubaie, Member of the Shura Council of the State of Qatar.
In his remarks, Hon Alsubaie alluded to the fact that every year terrorist attacks kill and injure innocent people. To that end the international community has to get together to counter terrorism and put in place necessary precautions and measures to protect victims of terrorism. He asserted the necessity for parliaments to create legislative provisions to support and protect the needs of victims and share best practices in countering terrorism. He further highlighted the need for Parliamentarians to cooperate in countering terrorism thereby curbing violent extremism. He applauded UNOCT, UN Drugs and Crimes for working very hard in combating terrorism.
Remarks by H.E. Mohamed Ali Houmed, President, African Parliamentary Union and Speaker of the National Assembly of Djibouti
His Excellency emphasized the need for coordinated efforts in the fight against terrorism and that international and regional support is required in supporting victims of terrorism He stated that it is important to find the best ways to support victims of terrorism, show solidarity and enact laws to support such victims. He noted that laws did exist but lacked enforcement. He asserted the importance of cherishing memories of the victims and to set platforms that allow for the exchange of their experiences and ideas. Further to that, he emphasized the need to rehabilitate, protect and give assistance to victims.
Remarks by Hon. Reinhold Lopatka, Vice President and Chair of the Ad Hoc Committee on Counter Terrorism, Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe and Member of the National Council of Austria
In his remarks, Hon Loptaka emphatically stressed that in the fight against terrorism, it is important to have the victims in mind bearing the fact that terrorism affects their lives forever. He highlighted that involvement of victims in the fight against terrorism is key as they contribute in fighting the impunity of terrorism, assist in developing counter terrorism measures and are powerful and credible messengers and their experiences put a human face to the impact of terrorism. He asserted that a lot has to be done in social media so as to change the narratives of fear and hatred. He elaborated that it is important for Parliaments to work with civil and international organizations in supporting victims of terrorism. He stressed that Parliaments are responsible for shaping legislation and policy frameworks, have influence over the budget, oversee government actions not to use terrorism against the people and therefore are in a position to support the implementation of resolutions that support victims of terrorism.
Keynote Addresses
Among the Keynote Speakers were Mr. Tarek Noseir, Member of the Arab Parliament and Member of the House of Representatives of Egypt, Mr. Gonzalo de Salazar, Deputy Head of Mission of Spain to Italy, Mr. Vittorio Occorsio, Founder of the “Vittorio
Occorsio” Foundation, and Ms. Jacqueline Odoul, Chair of the IPU High-Level Advisory Group on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism.
Sen. Tarek Noseir, Member of Arab Parliament and Member of the Senate of Egypt
Sen. Nosier elaborated the importance of reflecting on the role that can be played by Parliaments in combating terrorism, and that is of creating national policies. He therefore, called upon nations to show their commitment to support victims through the enactment of legislation. He emphasized that victim voices should be heard, and protected and the need for Parliaments to come up with best practices and adopt a comprehensive vision to deal with the needs of the victims.
Mr. Gonzalo de Salazar, Deputy Head of Mission of Spain to Italy (on behalf of the Group of Friend of Victims of Terrorism)
Mr. Salazar emphasized the need of putting victims of terrorism at the fore front as they are vulnerable targets. He further stated that the Group of Friends seeks to promote a comprehensive approach towards the promotion and protection of human rights of the victims of terrorism and to advocate their diverse needs in the short, medium and long term. The group also ensures that victim’s voices are heard, their rights protected, and their recovery and rehabilitation needs addressed.
Mr. Vittorio Occorsio, Vittorio Occorsio Foundation, Italy
In his address, Mr Occorsio highlighted the importance of the memory of victims and stated that the Parliament of Italy approved a law for the commemoration of victims of terrorism and a National Day of Terrorism was established.
Hon. Professor Jacqueline Odoul, Chair, IPU High Level Advisory Group on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism and Member of the National Assembly of Kenya
Hon. Odoul, spoke about the importance of systematizing and promoting the exchange of existing good practices amongst parliaments. She highlighted the need to take necessary steps to protect and promote the interests of the victims of terrorism, especially championing the needs of women and girls. She asserted the need of coming up with a clear mechanism to deal with compensation to victims.
The Model Legislative Provisions (MLPs) to support and protect the rights and needs of Victims of Terrorism
The High-level conference included a presentation of the Model Legislative Provisions, to support and protect the rights and needs of Victims of Terrorism, which is a tool for parliamentarians jointly developed by United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism/United Nations Counter-Terrorism Centre (UNOCT/UNCCT), United
Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), and the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). It was launched virtually on 4 February 2022.
The Provisions are comprehensive and underline the need for States to follow a victim centric approach in addressing the rights and needs of victims. The Model Legislative Provisions are intended to assist Member States in protecting the rights and supporting the needs of victims of terrorism in their national laws. Their purpose is twofold:
- First, to serve as a model for the review and modernization of existing laws and procedures related to victims of terrorism and the drafting of legislation where legislative exists;
- Secondly, to systematize existing good practices and promote the harmonization of legislation to support and protect victims of terrorism internationally, in line with recent advances on this topic.
The Model Legislative Provisions are based on the existing international normative frameworks pertaining to victims of crimes, gross human rights violations and serious violations of international humanitarian law. They aim at ensuring equal treatment among all victims and are geared towards addressing their needs as a result of the harm suffered, without distinction as to the root causes of their harm.
The Provisions include fundamental rights of victims which must be observed by nations. These include inter alia:
- The right to necessary assistance and support (medical, psychological, social, and material);
- The right to adequate, effective, and prompt reparation (including restitution, compensation, satisfaction, and truth), cessation, and guarantees of non-repetition;
- The right to protection of physical and psychological integrity, privacy and reputation; The right to access to justice in all criminal, civil and administrative proceedings and processes related to being a victim;
- The right to access to information about the above rights and remedies.
Session I: The role of Parliamentarians in ensuring a tailored response to address large scale displacement and violations of rights to livelihood, shelter, education, healthcare and liberty of victims of terrorism
During the first session, panelists discussed the role of parliamentarians in ensuring a tailored response to address large scale displacement and violations of rights to livelihood, shelter, education, healthcare, and liberty. These included:
- Quick responses after a terrorist attack- timely action can prevent traumatic stress and disability effectively.
- Immediate psychological support- rehabilitation services.
- Removal of barriers within the government in accessing important documentation for victims.
- Mechanisms to facilitate the life of a victim by reducing bureaucratic channels. Establishment of one stop centres for victims of terrorism
- Awareness of the mental damage caused by terrorism, this can be attained through education.
- Reconciliation with religious groups and the society.
- Protection and respect of human rights.
- Development of a legislative process.
- Establishment of associations of victims for support services and victim protection units.
- Social recognition.
- National Day of Remembrance of victims of terrorism-preservation of memory. Compensation and reparation to victims of terrorism including their families.
Session II: The role of civil society groups and organizations in complementing state and parliamentary efforts in supporting victims of terrorism and ensuring access to justice
The second session focused on the role of civil society groups and organizations in complementing state and parliamentary efforts in supporting victims of terrorism and ensuring access to justice. It was discussed that civil society organizations are the cornerstone of upholding the rule of law and implementing fundamental rights. It was stated that they are an integral part of victim support as they ensure that victims’ rights are exercised. They play an important role in oversight, carry out important advocacy work, bring strategic cases to courts, and ensure that national and international judgements create a legal framework for victims’ rights. It was highlighted that civil society organizations are better placed to provide the representation and inclusion of vulnerable victims, children, women or the disabled, and work to ensure that decision makers take all victims of all crimes into account when developing and adopting laws or policies. Fundamentally, civil society organizations provide psycho-social support to victims.
The work done and new initiatives by UNOCT and Parliamentary Assemblies to enhance parliamentary response in supporting victims of terrorism and the role they can play in reviewing and reformulating new legislation based on MLPs
The work done to enhance Parliamentary response in supporting victims of terrorism was highlighted. The Draft Resolution on Victims of Terrorism that would be discussed at the upcoming OSCE PA’s Annual Session was introduced. The resolution calls upon OSCE participating States to adopt comprehensive assistance plans and to establish a permanent co-ordination body for victims of terrorism. It is hoped that this resolution will further advance the international counter-terrorism framework, providing clear guidance and heightened standards for participating States in supporting and upholding the rights of victims.Session III: Incorporating protection and national support, including material and social needs, for victims of terrorism in state counter terrorism strategies and legislation
Session three focused on incorporating protection and national support, including material and social needs, for victims of terrorism in counter-terrorism strategies and legislation. These included nations ensuring, inter alia, adequate budget allocation for victims, critical psycho-social support, procedures that facilitate immediate access to medical services, strengthening victim support services, access to education, justice and information.
Session IV: Good practices and lessons learned on support to victims of terrorism on the local and national levels and importance of systematizing and promoting the exchange of information regarding existing good practices
In session four, panelists shared good practices and lessons learnt on support to victims of terrorism on the local and national levels and the importance of systematizing and promoting the exchange of information regarding existing good practice. It was discussed that, in order to play a crucial role in efforts to counter terrorism, nations needed to adopt good practices that meet international obligations while ensuring the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms. These good practices inter alia are, enacting a legal framework, access to justice, the right to reparation, education, prompt and efficient assistance, recognition through medals, protection of the physical and psychological well-being of the victim, relationship between the victim and media to avoid secondary victimization and setting up of hotlines and websites to keep the victims up to date. It was highlighted that good practices are therefore aimed at assisting nations to establish and enhance policies, laws and institutional capacity to provide improved outcomes for victims, while fully respecting the rule of law and rights of victims.
Victims of Terrorism
Victims of terrorism have a central role to play in ensuring effective investigation and prosecution of terrorist cases and contribute to collecting evidence. Therefore, one of the aims of the conference was to make the victims voices heard and disseminate their shared experiences. It was also to enable their positive values to be understood and their role empowered to use as an effective tool to make people aware of the dangers of terrorism and violent extremism. Victims have become representatives of what a terrorist act implies for the lives of ordinary citizens and victims of terrorism are considered credible voices on the painful and human consequences of violent extremism and terrorism. Victims are therefore, the representatives of and ambassadors for public memory. This voice can offer a strong narrative for the purpose of creating awareness of radicalisation and preventing violent extremism.
Expectations raised by victims of terrorism
- Victims’ Voices initiative programs that show victims’ stories as they are most impactful when shared directly by victims, in their own words. This this can be done through a global platform that amplifies victim voices, for example handbooks and documentary series. Ultimately, the stories aim to raise a collective consciousness and to create awareness about the importance of preventing terrorist attacks and the ensuing emergence of new victims.
- Honouring of Remembrance Day of victims and commemoration campaigns that share the intimate memories of the victims of terrorism.
- Establishment of a centre for victims of terrorism that provides education and training.
- Immediate access to medical and rehabilitative services.
- Empowerment of victims of terrorism.
Outcomes
- The Conference gave the opportunity to Parliamentarians and victims to contribute to global efforts to combat terrorism and prevent violent extremism through decisive action and practical assistance to people who have become victims of terrorist attacks.
- One of the main topics of the Conference was the discussion of the role of various non-governmental structures and civil society organizations in complementing state and parliamentary efforts to support victims of terrorism and ensure access to justice.
- The participants shared best practices in supporting victims of terrorism at the local and national levels and recognized the importance of systematizing and encouraging the exchange of information on existing best practices in this area.
- The conference recorded rich exchanges of experiences and good practices in terms of administrative, financial, legal, social and moral assistance as well as memorial duty towards the victims of terrorism.
- A follow up congress on support to victims of terrorism to be held in September 2022, on how parliamentarians can further the rights and needs of the victims of terrorism.
Recommendations by the Zimbabwe Delegation
- Perceiving that Zimbabwe may currently not be directly experiencing terrorist threats, the Cabo Delgado case is a cause for serious concern. The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs by 31 August 2022, need to adopt an inclusive, whole-of-government and holistic approach that includes cooperation with various stakeholders such as civil society organizations in countering terrorism and support victims of terrorism. Strong emphasis should therefore be placed on strengthening and implementing counter terrorism legislation and policies that support victims of terrorism.
- The Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage should introduce border guards and strengthen border patrols by 31 August 2022 especially at the Zimbabwe – Mozambique border.
- The Zimbabwean government by 31 August 2022 should aim at strengthening its relations with other regional and international bodies in fighting terrorism together and supporting victims of terrorism as well as enhancing collaboration on border management
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must allocate adequate funds to the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to enable the Ministries to strengthen surveillance mechanisms at border posts by 31 December 2022.
Closing Remarks
It was affirmed that there is need to promote the role of civil society groups and organizations in complementing state and parliamentary efforts in supporting victims of terrorism and ensuring access to justice. It was further alluded that we must not forget that Parliamentarians not only hold the power of legislation, but of oversight as well. It is, therefore, up to Parliamentarians to make sure that there are laws and policies that promote the rights of the victims in countering terrorism. Concerns around the war in Ukraine were also raised, and how the resulting instability could stimulate local crises, creating conditions for radicalization.
Conclusion
The delegation received pointed capacity building on counter-terrorism strategy and legislation to support the victims of terrorism, including the recent measures adopted to prevent radicalization. Prevention was identified as the key measure, with recent efforts focusing on combating cyber terrorism and online radicalization, as new and pressing threats. The need to ensure memory, dignity and justice to all victims was repeatedly stressed. The Conference concluded with a call for increased joint and multilateral action at regional and international levels to address global terrorist threats and a call for concrete recommendations and regional plans of action through the Parliamentary Assemblies, and lastly a follow up Congress to be held in September 2022 on the resolutions for the support of victims of terrorism. Thank you.
HON. TSUURA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker for affording me this opportunity to second the motion by Hon. T. Zhou with the topic which reads: Measures Aimed at Supporting Victims of Terrorism suggested by Parliamentarians. The following pragmatic interventions and recommendations were suggested regarding the victims:-
- There is need for the promotion of resolutions specifically dedicated to victims.
- There is need for the creation of national systems of assistance, which would promote the needs of victims of terrorism and their families and facilitate the normalisation of their lives.
- Member States are encouraged to strengthen the implementation of national legislation and policies that support and protect victims of acts of terrorism and this can be done in close partnership with governments, victims’ organisations and civil society groups.
- There is need to enhance the capacity of governments and other stakeholders to increase support for victims of terrorism.
- There is need to promote a specific mechanism in the assemblies, that is, a detailed questionnaire prepared by each assembly that can be used to gather information.
- There is need to support the work of requesting parliaments.
- Member States were encouraged to hold dialogues with civil society organizations so as to enable parliamentary action to put voices of the victims on the platform.
- There is need to extend broader protection to victims.
- Coordination of all law enforcement and criminal justice agencies involved at all stages of victims interaction with the criminal justice system is required.
- There is need is need for victim sensitive approaches when dealing with victims.
- Member States were urged to ensure that procedures regulating victims’ status, participation and protection in court proceedings are in place.
- There is need for timely and fair restitution, reparation and compensation of victims.
- There is need for the media to play an active role in raising awareness on the vulnerability of victims, especially in avoiding secondary victimization. I thank you.
HON. T. ZHOU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th September, 2022.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 66TH SESSION OF THE COMMISSION ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN
Thirty-third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 66th Session of the Commission on the Status of Women.
Question again proposed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Order, order. We have a technical glitch and are not online as you can see. So what we have done is, we have colleagues who want to debate and do not want to seem as if we are not being fair to them. I am sure Hansard will be able to capture but when it comes to others also listening in, it would be a problem again. Then there is the issue of quorum again that is also a challenge for us.
So I think the best we can do is, we have Hon. Bhuda Masara. You wanted to adopt this motion?
HON. BHUDA MASARA: Yes, Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you do that so that we can then be able to adjourn as soon as possible? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Is it now online? Can they hear us? – [HON. RAIDZA: We can use our own data and we are connected!] – Hold on, hold on, let us have a conversation. Are you saying that if someone is connected online, they can hear us? – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – [HON. HAMAUSWA: It is the Parliament internet that has a problem.]- – [HON. T. ZHOU: But they cannot hear us.] – Can they hear us?
The best that we can do is for us to adjourn to a date that we can then be able to easily make sure that everyone is accessible.
HON. RAIDZA: On a point of clarity Hon. Speaker! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members! I think we are trying to have a conversation – [HON. RAIDZA: I wanted to…] – Sorry, we know the procedures of how we communicate. We stand up and are recognised, not for us to be seated and saying things. Can we please adhere to that?
HON. RAIDZA: Can I get clarity Madam Speaker Ma’am? When we are being told that there is a glitch, I am failing to understand what glitch is being talked about because some of our Hon. Members in this House and those outside are already connected on Zoom. So I am failing to understand what glitch our esteemed Clerk is advising you on because we are already on Zoom.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. You can come and see on my dashboard here, there is nothing. – [HON. NDEBELE: It is even there on the wall, there is nothing.] – As it stands, even for us to have an interaction, from your side yes, we can. Formerly, it will mean that it is your interaction but not interaction from here. I think that is the issue.
*HON. B. DUBE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, may we request that the debate be prioritised tomorrow after the Question and Answer segment? I think it is one of the most important debates, especially for those people who have concerns with issues relating to gender and women empowerment and it cannot be just rushed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, that communication will be relayed to the other Presiding Officers so that, that is taken heed of, in case I will not be in the Chair. – [HON. DUBE: Thank you.] – Noted. Hon. Masara, is that in order?
*HON. BHUDA-MASARA: Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker …– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, will you please allow the Hon. Member to be heard in silence?
HON. BHUDA-MASARA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I think it is in order because we have gender champions who wanted to debate the motion. I think it would be very unfair for the CSW and the women’s Caucus if we just rush it. Thank you very much.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI, seconded by HON. TEKESHE, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 22nd September, 2022
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order! I have a list of those with points of national interest.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Speaker and good afternoon. My point of national interest is on the issues in the House. The first issue I would like to draw to your attention which I am sure you are aware of is that, Hon. Mliswa has mentioned it and I have counted 40 times, the attendance of Ministers at Questions without Notice. Nothing has changed in four years. I wonder when it becomes a dereliction of duty when Ministers do not attend. I am not going to hope on that.
Three months ago, the Ministry of Health and Child Care was asked to explain or give a statement on my request by the Deputy Speaker on why suppliers for the Ministry of Health had not been paid, some of them since October last year, particularly when their draw down at the supplementary budget stage was only about 25%. Is it the problem with the allocation from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development or it is the problem with the allocation or the request from the Ministry of Health and Child Care? We want to know as a House because the health services are an integral part of the country.
The next issue is also the same thing with the Ministry of Home Affairs. You ruled...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, one issue of national interest.
HON. MARKHAM: They are all in the national interest pertaining to...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, one. You are proceeding to a third issue now according to your deliberation and they are different issues.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My problem is the dereliction of duty by the Ministers. I am giving examples to back up for the nation what we asked here which is being ignored by the Ministers and that is all I am saying. So I will list them just to give you an example of what is being ignored. We were promised a statement by the Ministry of Health and we were promised a statement by the Ministry of Home Affairs on I.D. registration. The Ministry of Home Affairs as you ruled, no one must be left behind with the registration of national identity documents. In fact he has been to our area and nothing has happened. The Road Repair Fund Programme, we asked for an update of roads because every Member of Parliament knows what is going on but nothing happened. We asked for a detailed performance from the Minister of Finance on the Special Drawing Rights but nothing has happened. We asked again about the ZAMCO list from the Ministry of Finance but nothing happened.
My point of national interest is: when does it become a dereliction of duty either from the Ministry or from this House or the Chief Whip who is asked to pass on the messages? I am at a loss on what to do or what we are doing. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will check on progress because some of the issues you raise, especially from Ministry of Finance, you were responded to directly. The Minister said he will not give details because of the issue of contractual agreement. Do you recall that?
HON. MARKHAM: The issue that the Minister was referring to on confidentiality was to the double settlement deed with farmers. That one I accepted but ZAMCO, he promised to give us and it is in the Hansard that he would release the list to us and we have not received it. He has not asked me to come and get it. I do not know what to do. I do not know how we can acquire debt when we do not know what it is for.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no, you cannot say you do not know what to do. You are surrendering. Do not surrender. You are a soldier, you soldier on. Can I have that list given to the Clerk and I want to give you an undertaking that I will personally write to the concerned Ministers with a deadline accordingly.
HON. NDEBELE: On that list, kindly add the Minister of Agriculture. I have waited for his statement for three years. Yes, three years, the desk may kindly assist as well. I had requested for a Ministerial Statement by way of a list of farms that his predecessor and himself have redistributed, province by province. I have been to these offices, they work so hard, they have phoned him and he has ignored us totally.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: I would like to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I stood up on an issue of national importance. I stood up on the issue before that the registration blitz done in the past should be repeated. Why I am saying that is because we are going towards the end of mobile registration exercise which was done by the Registrar General’s Office. Those who managed to get their IDs did not get the opportunity to do voter registration. Regarding the 2023 polls, my request is that Government should return the voter registration exercise to all districts so that everyone is registered to vote. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We have noted that. It is a noble plea.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My issue pertains to the state of our prisons, the population of prisoners in our prisons and also the issue that it takes a long time for prisoners to go to the courts. Some go for a long time without getting bail. Section 52 of the Constitution talks about the rights of prisoners who are allowed to go to the courts as soon as possible unless if there are issues which prohibit them from doing so.
The Criminal Procedure Evidence Act says that every individual has the right to be given bail before going for their final judgment. This allows the depopulation of prisons but the challenge is that there are some prisoners who are continuously denied bail despite the fact that they are not a flight risk. We also have prisoners who are incarcerated who include Members of Parliament of this august House who have 100 days in prison without being given bail. So I just want the Minister of Justice to come and speak regarding that issue. We have Hon. Sikhala and Hon Sithole who are still incarcerated – [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]–
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Hwende, you are a senior Member of Parliament. I need to respond to him. Hon. Madzimure, yesterday was question time and the Leader of Government business who is the Minister of Justice was here. Why did you not ask your question?
HON. MADZIMURE: I did not get the opportunity.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You must give your Chief Whip your name so that you pose a question during Question Time.
HON. HWENDE: I am saying they must allow you to explain to us because this is a very important matter to us. We have two Members of Parliament who are suffering in jail and they are making noise – [HON. TOGAREPI: Unoda kuenda kujeri here?]. He is telling me that I must go to jail. What is that? He is the Government Chief Whip.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I was responding to Hon. Madzimure. I said yesterday the Minister of Justice was here and he could have asked the question and normally we go by the list. If your question is still burning, approach Hon. Mutseyami so that you are at the top of the list for next week.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I stand up with a burning issue which I believe if it is not resolved, might end up in loss of lives. Every year in Glen View Area 8, at the Home Industries where a lot of furniture is manufactured, there are fire outbreaks. Nothing has been done so far by Government to intervene so that fires are prevented. As I am speaking, 80% of the complex was razed down. We are grateful that there was no loss of life but Glen View Area 8 residents and other people who work in that area are not able to work at the moment.
I spoke to the Minister of Small to Medium Enterprises (SMEs) to come and inspect Glen View Area 8 before we have a national disaster because there is a service station next to the complex. Every year there are fire outbreaks but we do not know whether it is arson or what, but we know that there are cotton sacks, planks, wood shavings and other things which are highly flammable. If this is left unattended, one day we will end up losing lives. So my request is that the Minister of SMEs should visit that complex and other stakeholders. However, the Hon. Minister is not visiting the complex. We do not know how we can be helped in this issue. Thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Yesterday when I left this place, the Minister of Small to Medium Enterprises was in this august House. Why did you not pose that question yesterday? You should have asked her yesterday because that is a specific issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order! Hon. Member, that one who is not sitting properly, do you want to go to the other side of the House. Why are you fidgeting? Please keep quiet.
Put that issue in writing as a written question for next week because it requires some research in terms of what has been happening. You said for the last three years or so, put it down in writing, I am sure the Minister will have some investigations and respond to your written question.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 12 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 13 has been disposed of.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
JUDICIAL LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 3, 2022]
Thirteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill [H. B. 3, 2022].
Question again proposed.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me the opportunity to present the Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Portfolio Committee’s Report on the public hearings on the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill [H. B. 3, 2022]. I will briefly give the background to the Bill.
INTRODUCTION.
The Portfolio committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs conducted nationwide public hearings on the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill [H. B. 3, 2022], from 10-12 August 2022. The public hearings were conducted in compliance with Section 141 of the Constitution which stipulates that Parliament must;
(a) facilitate public involvement in its legislative and other processes and in the processes of its Committees;
(b) ensure that the interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament unless such consultation is inappropriate or impracticable…"
Therefore, public participation and involvement in law making processes remains a central mandate of Parliament and complies with its vision of “…people driven” Parliament.
Methodology
The Committee was divided into two teams that undertook consultations in seven different venues across the country (see appendix 1).
The Committee also received written submissions from Law Society of Zimbabwe after consultations with various legal practitioners.
This report therefore summarises the inputs received from the people of Zimbabwe with regard to the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill.
Overview of the Hearings
Team A managed to reach a total of 18 people comprising of 10 (56%) being male, 8 (44%) being female. Team B managed to reach a total of 59 citizens comprising of 31 (53%) being male and 28 (47%) being female.
The aggregate reach was therefore 77 people, where 41 (53%) were male participants and 36 (47%) were female participants.
General Submissions
The public applauded Parliament for the efforts made in reaching them to gather their views pertaining the Bill. However, Parliament was urged to identify and use venues which are convenient for people with disabilities.
Parliament was also urged to improve its advertising mechanisms by engaging local leadership so that the message reaches every citizen.
Members of Parliament were also urged to take up the central role of sensitising the public in their respective Constituencies, on all Bills before undertaking public hearings. This will ensure that the public makes meaningful contributions to the law-making process.
Majority of the public welcomed the amendments being proposed by the Bill. However; whilst the intention of virtual court sittings appeared noble to the public, some shortcomings were observed.
According to the Law Society of Zimbabwe, the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill potentially infringes on the right to ‘access to justice’. It felt that as we move away from the COVID era, courts should be fully opened to the public instead of holding virtual hearings.
The public, further highlighted that the practice of wearing wigs by Judges must be abandoned as it is old fashioned, a practice borrowed from the UK court system which has since dropped such practice.
Specific Submissions on the Proposed Amendments
Clause 1 (Short Title of the Bill): There was no objection raised concerning the short title of the Bill.
Clause 2 (Judicial Laws to be Amended): The public applauded Parliament for the efforts being made in aligning Judicial Laws with the Constitution.
Clauses 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 &14 (Virtual Court Sittings): These clauses provide for virtual court sittings in both civil and criminal proceedings, subject to consent of the parties involved.
Lawyers who attended the hearings submitted that, virtual courts violate Section 50 (5) (e) of the Constitution which gives accused persons the right to a public trial and civil litigants the right to a public hearing. In other words, both criminal and civil trials must be held in public.
A question was then raised whether or not virtual hearings are public trials.
According to Law Society of Zimbabwe, virtual court sittings create two types of litigants. On one end those who consent and on the other, those who do not consent to it. This is potentially confusing and discriminates as to what rules apply to them and what level of service they receive.
While the public welcomed the initiative to move with technology, concerns were being raised over the complexity of the system and the grey areas being created by the Bill.
The Law Society of Zimbabwe submitted that, while introduction of virtual court sittings is a progressive development, it should be noted that the traditional physical court sittings promote transparency and judicial accountability. As such any departure from physical court sittings should be an exception rather than the norm.
It further submitted that, the Bill falls short of making provision allowing interested parties other than the litigants to have access to the virtual proceedings.
It was further highlighted that, the ability to retain control by the Court will be minimised because any party to the proceedings may choose to excuse themselves at any given time for failing technical equipment or network challenges. In such scenarios the Court cannot enforce its authority effectively.
Furthermore, it was submitted that virtual appearances will undermine the warrant system.
The public therefore recommended that:
- The Bill should clearly specify circumstances in which virtual court sittings should be used and what will happen if the parties did not agree to virtual sittings;
- There is need to improve internet access and its related infrastructure nationwide.
- Virtual Court centres be established in all districts and be accessible to the marginalised communities.
- The Bill specifies the party to incur costs of virtual sittings. It was suggested that the State should bear all the costs of virtual sittings.
- Media and members of the public have access to the virtual hearings in compliance with Section 69 of the constitution.
- The Bill should specify the medium to be used for virtual sittings, if proceedings shall be audio or visual court proceedings or in-person trials.
Clause 5 (Limitations to Jurisdiction of the High Court): This clause seeks to amend Section 13 of the High Court Act [Chapter 7:06] by inserting a proviso that prohibits the High Court from hearing any claim or case which falls within the jurisdiction of any other inferior court or tribunal, except on appeal or review.
Members of the legal profession highlighted that the Clause is violating Section 171 (a) of the Constitution which gives the High Court inherent jurisdiction over all civil and criminal matters in Zimbabwe.
It was submitted that Judicial Laws have to be aligned with the Constitution to avoid technical disputes about whether particular cases can be dealt with by the High Court or whether they fall within the jurisdiction of some other court.
Clause 6 (Notice by Chief Justice): This clause is amending Section 46 (a) of the High Court Act which deals with specific division of a specialized court. The Bill will be inserting a new subparagraph allowing the Chief Justice to specify the areas under the jurisdiction of each division.
Practicing Legal practitioners highlighted that some court divisions may be more efficient than others.
It was then recommended that there be a practice direction giving delimitations on which High courts should be approached by a specific litigant.
Clause 9 (Amendments to the Labour Act): This clause amends Section 85 of the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01] by aligning the qualifications of a Labour Court Judge with Section 179 of the Constitution.
The public applauded this development as it will ensure competence among Judges.
Law Society of Zimbabwe submitted that, the amendment is a positive development that will ensure that recruitment of judges for all courts is standardised as they have the same qualifications.
Clause 11 (Messenger of the Labour Court): This clause provides for the establishment of the office of the Messenger and Deputy Messenger of the Labour Court.
The public applauded this progressive development. It was submitted that the Labour Court is a critical and competent Court within the justice delivery system. As such, it should be allowed to enforce its own decisions through this new office of the Messenger of the Labour Court
The office of the Messenger of the Labour Court will bring convenience and completeness of services rendered to court users. It was however submitted that, there should be specific rules on how the messenger of court should operate.
Clause 12: This clause is amending Sections 92 (c) and 92 (f) of the Labour Act by deletion of “President of the Labour Court” and replace with Judge, in line with the Constitution.
The public applauded this development as it will ensure competence of Judges.
Clause 15 (Special Jurisdiction for Magistrates): This clause gives every Magistrate special jurisdiction to impose sentences prescribed in Section 60 (a) of the Electricity Act and Section 38 of the Railways Act and any other Act of Parliament wherein it is expressly provided that the Magistrate shall have jurisdiction in excess of its jurisdiction.
Lawyers were of the view that this special jurisdiction should be reserved for senior magistrates with greater experience in sentencing.
Law Society of Zimbabwe further submitted that, there should be continuous professional development of Magistrates by the Judicial Service Commission to ensure that they are kept up to date on trends in sentencing as well as other fair trial rights in the Constitution.
Clauses 16 and 17: These clauses propose to alter sentencing levels for scrutiny and review provided for in Section 57 of the Magistrates Court Act.
The Bill proposes that cases will be sent to a Judge for automatic review only where a Magistrate has imposed a fine beyond level 10 or more than two years imprisonment. In the cases where a lower sentence has been imposed, it will be sent to a Regional Magistrate for scrutiny.
Some members of the public were of the view that Magistrates, despite any ranking should not be allowed to scrutinise cases of other Magistrates.
Law Society of Zimbabwe submitted that, the provision for scrutiny by regional magistrates does not necessarily provide the correct level of supervision. The justice delivery system should be geared towards fostering excellence and ‘world class justice’.
Law Society of Zimbabwe opined that, Clause 17 lowers the standard of checks and balances by the superior courts over the inferior courts. It was recommended that, the best way to resolve the challenge of work overload at the High Court is to increase the number of judges rather than compromise the quality of the accountability mechanism.
Clause 18: This clause will insert a new Section 194 (a) of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act that will require remands other than initial remands and bail proceedings to be conducted virtually.
It was submitted that facilities for virtual hearings must be available and easy to access. Moreover, accused persons and prosecutors will be given the right to question witnesses and observe their reactions.
Lawyers further submitted that, this clause has to be reconciled with Section 50 (5) (e) of the Constitution which gives detained persons the right to challenge the lawfulness of their detention in person before court.
Clause 19 (Sign Language Interpreters): This clause places an obligation upon the State to provide a sign language interpreter in cases involving an accused person with hearing or speech impairment or both.
Failure by the State to provide a sign language interpreter, the clause empowers to the court to release the accused person on bail or remove such person from remand.
The public applauded this clause since it will go a long way towards ensuring equal protection, access to justice and benefit of the law for persons with disabilities.
It was further submitted that, the Bill should also provide for braille and facilities for people with visual impairments, as they are equally affected by the current court mechanisms.
Clause 20 (Human Rights-oriented Terminology for People with Disabilities): This clause will remove derogatory words found in Section 246 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, like idiocy, mental disorder, malady and adopted internationally recognised terms in line with the Convention of the rights of persons with disabilities.
The public applauded the proposed amendment since it uses terms more in line with the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (2008).
Additional Clause: The public recommended that the Bill should insert a new clause on fees and access to justice. It was highlighted that, the 0.01% of amount claimed by the Courts is inhibiting access to Justice.
It was submitted that Court user fees should not hinder access to justice for those without means. Therefore, there is need to charge reasonable fees.
Committee Observations
The Committee made the following observations:
- The technical nature of the Bill did not generate enough interest among the general public; hence low turnout among the public;
- There were mixed feelings on how the virtual courts will be conducted, with the majority being concerned that it will be unfair and unjust for an accused person to be tried on a closed-circuit television or even in the comfort of his or her home especially for those remanded out of custody;
- Concerns were being raised over access to virtual court infrastructure and affordability of resources to majority of Zimbabweans and marginalised communities;
- The Bill is not clear on how to proceed in cases were parties cannot agree on the use of virtual court sittings;
- There is no clarity on the medium to be used for virtual court proceedings, whether it is by way of visual or audio or both;
- The Bill is silent on the number of participants allowed during the virtual proceedings and whether observers can also be part of the proceedings;
Committee Recommendations
The Committee therefore recommend the following:
- There is need for Parliament to undertake public awareness engaging local leaders before conducting public hearings in order to enhance public participation;
- These “electronic or other means of communication” for virtual court proceedings, must be clearly specified to allow transparency and accountability and informed consent;
- The virtual court systems being put in place must give efficacy to the Bill of Rights and the same systems and institutions must facilitate the realisation of the rights enshrined in the Constitution;
- Virtual sittings must be well crafted in order to not infringe on the right to a fair and public trial, in order to foster accountability;
- Virtual proceedings must be able to accommodate multiple participants such as court staff, clerks, lawyers, the public, journalists and court interpreters;
- Lawyers and Prosecutors must also be able to have a ‘confidential link’ to consult privately with their clients using secure systems, as would happen during physical courtroom sittings;
- Virtual courts must be accessible to mobile devices such as phones to enable those without access to computers;
- Marginalized populations who are not familiar with the vast technological advances must be fully accommodated in line with the right to equality and access to justice;
- Administrative reform measures should accompany the Bill to ensure smooth court operations;
- Chamber applications can be done virtually because by their nature. However, criminal trials, bail and remand proceedings must be conducted within physical court sittings;
- Clause 6 must clarify on what the Chief Justice is being empowered to do.
Conclusion
The Committee noted that although there was low turnout in areas visited, pertinent issues were being raised. Members of the legal profession participated by making submissions through the Law Society of Zimbabwe and some in their individual capacity. The Committee therefore believes that passing this Bill after strong consideration of the views of the people and their recommendations will help to shape our justice delivery system, with the basic concepts of fairness that lie at the heart of the country’s procedural law. I thank you.
HON. PROF. MASHAKADA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to give my views on the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill and say that you lawyers often say that justice must not only be done but it must be seen to be done. The problem with this Bill is that it treats civil matters quite differently from criminal matters. The Bill says in terms of civil matters, the two parties can have consent to go for a virtual trial, but in the case of a criminal matter, this Bill does not provide for consent. Already, it is treating the civil and criminal matters in a very different manner and I think it makes justice inequitable. We need equity and fairness in the discharge and dispensing of justice.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are a lot of practical and administrative questions which are not answered by this Bill. Imagine in a criminal trial, the presiding officer, magistrate or judge is seated in his own office, the witness seated in their own offices, the prosecutor sitting in his office, the accused sitting somewhere in that office. How does this happen? You know that in court proceedings, when an advocate is representing me, there are times when he or she has to consult me in person, whisper to me or consult me on certain issues pertaining to my case but now if this is a virtual trial, how does that happen? I think the dispensing of justice will be seriously compromised by these virtual trials.
The other challenge Mr. Speaker Sir, is that imagine the trial commences and in this case or in casu, the presiding officer decides not to admit me to bail but remands me into custody. How does this happen when this is a virtual hearing? Will there be policemen waiting at my door-step to listen to the proceedings of the virtual trial or suppose I am convicted at the end of my trial and it is virtual, how does that happen? I will just skip the border because it is a virtual trial.
So these I think are practical problems that the Executive did not correctly apply itself in coming up with this amendment Bill, but most importantly Mr. Speaker Sir, we all know that internet connectivity and internet penetration is very weak in Zimbabwe. Most areas in this country are not easily accessible via internet or mobile networks. It is very difficult even when you are in Harare. The internet is on and off and the network is on and off. So how does a fair public trial get under way under those circumstances of uncertainty in connectivity?
I think it is premature at this stage to go full blown on virtual trials in criminal cases. We should still guarantee that trials are public and they are in person, they are physical so that justice is seen to be done, is seen to be disbursed. So for these reasons Mr. Speaker Sir, I think this Bill should be withdrawn. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I think the issue which I thought needed to be looked at, there was a mention of the dressing of the judges with white hats and all that. If there is anything it exposes, it is that we are still not yet independent and I think it talks about many institutions in this country, the judiciary, Parliament itself, the way it conducts its proceedings when we are opening a Rolls Royce and all that. A Rolls Royce is a well known British vehicle but at the same time we also attack the British yet we go into their vehicles and I do not know how hypocritical that is. We say they have imposed sanctions on us, but we are driving their cars and we are a sovereign nation. So I think it is an issue that needs to be looked at in most institutions.
We have changed names of roads but we have not changed the British culture. We still wear ties and suits in Parliament. It is only me who has decided to be African and a few others. I know Hon. Markham too would like to come to this House in what he really thinks is comfortable. So even the dress code itself is British. It is something that really needs to be looked at.
COVID-19 was temporary and I see we are spending more time as a country trying to prepare for the next pandemic and we do not know what it is going to be. So if it is going to be of a temporary nature, why are we coming with permanent solutions for a temporary issue? Look at the money which is being spent. The real welfare of the people is not being looked at yet there is money for virtual courts. Do we need virtual courts?
When COVID-19 was there, measures were taken and Zimbabwe as a country and the Government must be congratulated, commended for a job well done in tackling the COVID pandemic. I think we did well as a country, but we did well because we followed what had to be followed, but COVID is gone now, still virtual. There are certain things in life that you cannot do virtual. I do not know what else they will say they will not do virtual. It is kind of confusing that conceiving of babies might even go virtual because we are just going virtual. So when is this going to stop? So to me, it is quite disturbing that we are putting all these resources for virtual processes. Like what Hon. Mashakada said, you need to consult your lawyer and not only that, the judges must also see you physically and when you are seen physically, you can tell whether one is lying or not. That physical contact is important in terms of interaction for you can be able to tell if one is calm or not. So that is part of the procedure and the process of the judge or the presiding officer arriving to a fair verdict.
So to me, I am totally against this, I do not see how it will help. What they are probably trying to say is, a civil case is just as important but the criminal case seems to be prioritised, it must be physical but the civil matters must go virtual. We have court buildings, so we might as well destroy all the infrastructure; what is the point of them being there and what purpose will they serve? To me, there is going to be judicial prudence in what we do and I do not see this being judicial prudence. In what we are trying to do, there must be justice and real justice but I do not see justice here. I see selective application of justice emanating from verdicts which are not comprehensive trial. So it is important and there is the aspect of conflict in virtual, you are in a trial and you do not know who is around me and you do not know who is giving me information and all that. It totally kills the aspect of justice of a trial.
A trial requires individuals but one can be given information by someone, one will be at home and might be getting information from other people; so how does it end up being a trial? To me, it is a no brainer. We cannot pursue this avenue for it is detrimental to a fair justice delivery system and it cannot be judicial prudence at the end of the day.
I would like to really conclude by saying that we have people who go and study civil criminal law and all that, putting in a lot of effort and all that. They must be able to enjoy their profession by going through what they would have been taught, which if anything, is more physical in terms of conducting trials and so forth. So that will be my contribution to that, I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I also want to add my voice to this important debate. It is very important that we follow what is happening around the globe that technology is changing. Now that the environment is changing, technology has come to facilitate things that would otherwise delay justice. In my view, what the Executive is trying to do is not to say we are going to have virtual trials on everything. This will only be done where one is not able to attend court but must be tried – [AN HON. MEMBER: Does it say so?] – My view is, when you are looking at COVID-19, it brought challenges but also opened our minds to say if a situation like this was to end and another situation similar to COVID-19 cropped up and some urgent trials will have to be stopped, it means someone’s rights will then be infringed. It is better than to find an avenue of facilitating a trial. I do not see any challenge in my view that we should allow this to be there but ensuring that where the possibility of having virtual trials outweighs that of a physical trial, then that should be the first option.
Should it be that you cannot go to court or your lawyer cannot go to court but you need representation and your lawyer is in Masvingo, you want to be tried; if you want your lawyer to be part of the proceedings, you should be allowed, the court must allow this. There are however challenges that will come with this change like - do we have the media to facilitate virtual trials? Do we have the technology ready to accommodate this? These are other areas that will be looked at after we have the law to ensure that when one wants to be tried, the trial must proceed and not be delayed and your rights will be protected. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill which is currently before the House. My honest view is that the Bill was rushed, the Bill is premature, and the Bill is addressing a problem, a problem that we are out of. The problems being the challenges we had with COVID-19 but now that we are relaxing COVID-19, we now need to come up with a law that is comprehensive that goes beyond the immediate challenges that we had with COVID-19. What we had with COVID-19 was a situation where courts were paralysed, there were no sittings, remand was being forced and long remands were being granted, trials were suspended. So we are now trying to come up with this Bill to deal with a mischief that is no longer a mischief at the present moment.
The Bill as it stands, has got a lot of problems. The first problem is that it is unconstitutional in many respects and the Committee on Justice has pointed it out. The Constitution is very clear in Section 50 that a person is entitled to a free and fair trial by an independent impartial court. That same Constitution in Section 50, makes it very clear that the trial must be open to members of the public and particularly a criminal trial; it is so important that a criminal trial is open to the public. What is on trial is not just the accused person who is in the dock but also the conduct of the judicial officer, the conduct of the judge, of the prosecutor, the conduct of the assessors if it is a criminal trial in the High Court, the conduct of the defence lawyer too because defence lawyers sometimes go to court without preparation. Also, some of the trials, their very nature demands openness. Take for instance trials to do with corruption, serious crimes, murder for instance - relatives and members of the public want to sit in the gallery to witness the trial. This Bill says criminal trials will be virtual, but forgets the fundamental reason why the Constitution guarantees and provides that criminal trials should be open. Hon. Speaker, we cannot pass a Bill that collides with the Constitution. There is no way that we can allow criminal trials to be virtual.
The second challenge is on civil trials. Civil trials, again the Constitution says they must be open and public. Many civil trials are big commercial disputes and many civil proceedings are big matters of national interest. There is a case in the High Court right now; Sybeth Musengezi and whatever, it is a matter of public interest, so you cannot bar the public. The pre demand that two parties must consent is forgetting that members of the public, including the press have an interest in the case and the administration of justice is served by public scrutiny. It is served by Members of the public being allowed to sit in the hearing despite the consent of the two parties and the two protagonists that may be before the court.
I have no problem Mr. Speaker in Chamber Applications being made virtual because they are already in Chamber, they are already in the private precincts of a judge and the law already defines what Chamber Applications are. These are just procedural issues; they are not substantive issues. They are interlock applications, they are not substantive issues. But I want to say Mr. Speaker Sir, that as I am talking to you right now, courts are actually conducting virtual hearings in respect of Chamber Applications. Only this morning I was in one but we are experiencing serious problems even in Harare, problems of connectivity, problems of the platform that they are using not being compatible with some devices, particularly IOSC devices, apple devices, so you spend a lot of time, if a hearing is supposed to start at 1000 o’clock, I am telling you the hearing will start an hour later as both the judges and the lawyers try to find commonality on the platform of the software. Here in Harare you are having those connectivity and software challenges, what more Dotito, Tsholotsho, Gutu-Mupandawana, Zaka-Jerera, Odzani and so on. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not think that we have sufficient infrastructure to support this progressive idea that we have virtual sittings in situations that we do not infringe the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Another issue of concern is the provision of Section 5 of the Bill. The provision says the High Court should not have jurisdiction in matters where other lower courts have got jurisdiction. So, Labour Court matters are being taken out of the High Court, Magistrate Court matters within the jurisdiction of Magistrate Courts. This is a direct infringement of the Constitution because the Constitution grants the High Court inherent jurisdiction so the High Court must have the total jurisdiction over every matter. That is important that inherent jurisdiction of the High Court must be maintained because the High Court is not a creature of statutes, the High Court is a creature of the common law so that jurisdiction must be maintained.
There are so many problems in the Judiciary which must be addressed by a Bill such as this one. Unfortunately, this Bill is not addressing those problems. I want to mention some of them which everyone in this august House knows.
The first one is the infrastructure of our courts. There are some courts where if you go and sit on a chair with your suit, you will come out naked because a nail will lacerate your trousers, unobva wakashama, vanhu voona colour yenguwo yawakapfeka mukati. So the infrastructure is a disaster Mr. Speaker. Go to some of the courts at Harare Magistrate Court, the criminal side but the waste court in Harare is the Stables at the Corner of Fourth and Samora Machel. The Magistrate Court is being conducted in a building that used to be the stables of former Rhodesian Prime Minister, who used to come to Munhumutapa house. There is no air conditioning, there are no chairs and desks. People are in a court room which if you were to wake up Mbuya Nehanda today, she would not be surprised that it is the same court room that hanged her.
We need a brand new civil court in Harare. They can use the same architecture of the building in Rotten Row but if you go to the outskirts, there is a Magistrate Court in Chivhu, it is prehistoric, it is as if that a freeze was put on that court, people literary sit on drums. These are the kind of issues that must be addressed by a Judiciary Laws Amendment Bill.
The other issue is of libraries, you have magistrates and judges that are operating without any library. You have magistrates and judges that do not have access to one single version of the Zimbabwe Law Report. So, should we not concentrate our energy in ensuring that every court has a decent library with number 1, all Zimbabwe Law Reports, all Acts of Parliament and all Statutory Instruments and most importantly there are programmes and people such as OPTMA in Zimbabwe, where for a small subscription, you have the entire world library at your finger tips whether it is South African Law Reports, England Law Reports, American Law Reports, African Law Reports, Zambian Law Reports and so forth.
Mr. Speaker, the problem you now have now is that lawyers can actually mislead, will go to court to magistrates who do not have libraries with nonexistent case authorities. I urge that the Ministry of Justice should spend a lot of time in ensuring that wherever there is a courtroom sitting, staff, the prosecutors and the lawyers have access to libraries. I have been to courts where the court does not even have a copy of the Zimbabwean Constitution, where a magistrate is using notes of criminal procedure and civil procedure that she or he was taught by Lovemore Madhuku at the University of Zimbabwe many years ago. It is happening. At most, you will find a prosecutor or a magistrate operating with a scruffy copy of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, a scruffy copy of the Criminal Codification and Reform Act and a scruffy copy of the Constitution which has been photocopied for so many times and in the margin some key cases are written State versus Kasukuwere, State versus Jabangwe or State versus Chivayo. It is not adequate.
The third thing that we need to address is the conditions of service of the Judicial officers. Judges are being paid RTGs 200 000 and magistrate are earning less than RTGs 100 000 per month. So naturally, corruption will take root. State capture will take root because justice cannot be administered if the judicial officer cannot reproduce himself or herself, and any practicing lawyer or prosecutor will tell you that judicial corruption is now rampant in Zimbabwe because of the conditions of service. Some of the magistrates do not even have vehicles to bring to work but look at the state of our roads and congestion. That magistrate is going to be given a Honda Fit by an accused person, you cannot complain Mr. Speaker.
So we need to adequately reward judicial officers starting with the Chief Justice going to the judges of the Constitutional Court and so on. Many of those judges would have forgone a profitable legal career in the private sector to go to a situation where he/she cannot even afford to pay school fees for their children. Many of them end up being farmers but you know as a farmer that if you want to make anyone poor, you give them a farm because farming is expensive. In Zimbabwe, because our farmers do not have title deeds, the land is not collateralised and they have to wait for Command Agriculture which comes in unequal circumstances. So, we are exposing judicial officers to corruption. The Judicial Services Amendment Bill needs to address that. One of the things we could do is allow them to retain the money that is paid to them in the form of fines and so forth.
Fourth is the issue of the technology infrastructure at those court rooms. There is no WiFi at the High Court and the Magistrates Courts yet we are expecting them to go virtual. Let us invest in fibre optics so that all the courts have fibre optics and can function.
Next is the condition of the law schools. Every university now has a Faculty of Law. I have no problem with that. I think lawyers are now like teachers, they are everywhere but the problem is that there is no adequate staff and material to teach those students. I take interns at my law firm and some of the kids cannot even write their names. I was asking them to say surely you ought to know this and they said for the past two years we did not learn because of COVID. So, we are releasing dangerous, ill-trained, ill-prepared, under taught and under cooked graduates onto the market.
When I went to law school myself, it was a vibrant community. We had international lectures, Law Journals that we used to write as students. We used to invite senior lawyers like Stanford Moyo to come and give us lectures at the University of Zimbabwe. That is gone and if you kill the university you have killed the profession. These are the things that the Judicial Bill should address.
I want to conclude by saying that the Bill is premature. I propose that the Minister sends a team, including Members of the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Justice on a fact-finding mission on a study of countries that are introducing virtual courts in their jurisdictions, starting with South Africa, then Kenya and developed jurisdictions. You will see models there; both on the procedure, software and hardware issues which are missing in our country. To simply introduce this Bill in a country where we are still operating on second generation technology when other countries are on sixth generation will be a disaster, apart from the legal and constitutional issues that the Committee has raised and my esteemed colleagues, Hon. Mashakada and Hon. Mliswa have raised.
I submit that let us go back to the drawing board. We need to embrace technology but technology must be put in the context of the condition of the country and I doubt whether Zimbabwe is there. Technology must also be introduced in a situation where we are not breaching the country’s supreme laws, in particular the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker for the opportunity to add my voice to this discussion. I appreciate the sentiments by the Government Chief Whip that the Bill, through video conferencing might be advantage in terms of speeding up court proceedings and reducing costs that are attached to the same proceedings. However Mr. Speaker Sir, I must hasten to say that this advantage is heavily outweighed by problems that attach to this Bill. If you go to Section 69 of our Supreme Law in this country, it guarantees accused persons and civil litigants the right to a public trial or public hearing.
Where is the mischief that the people of this country were trying to arrest Mr. Speaker Sir? It is simple that the participation of the public in an open trial guarantees transparency, integrity of the whole process and fairness. If I am accused of rape, I should appear in an open court of law so that everyone gets to know how it began and ended. Open trial guarantees transparency, integrity and fairness. Virtual processes have another practical problem as has already been indicated by the other Hon. Members. I do not want to repeat this ad nauseum but they are prone to interruptions.
We have seen it in this House. A member wants to make a contribution from wherever they are; they get interrupted by internet problems. Without attacking the Speaker’s recent judgement, it is so difficult for anyone to say I have left Lupane and driven to Bulawayo, therefore I am guaranteed of stable internet. ZESA will pounce on you and even the network itself will just fall on your feet, and you will be unable to participate in an important trial.
It is also important because what happens if I am convicted and I am sitting in my House as Hon. Dr. Mashakada indicated? What stops me from getting into the next malaicha and disappearing into South Africa? Who will be guaranteeing that I am handed over to the nearest police station so that I am taken to Khami Prison or wherever. These are some of the very important problems that are attached to this whole process. Even if we address the technical troubles, lawyers may find it very difficult to cross-examine a disembodied head on a computer screen. There is body language that a lawyer wants to tap into as he/she cross-examines a person and the magistrate or judge as an independent umpire is also looking into their demeanor or conduct to establish whether indeed they are a reliable source of information or of any assistance to the court. This whole process makes immediacy of person to person confrontation. It is nice in that way when it becomes adversarial and my lawyer is able to dig into the other party physically.
I also have misgivings when it comes to those living with disability. How are we going to provide for them? Suppose I am living with blindness and I am suddenly expected to participate in proceedings on a computer, we are possibly leaving out those with disabilities. What about those without computer literacy? Justice then becomes a privilege for the affluent, the educated. So, what happens to the indigent? Justice must be for all. I believe Mr. Speaker Sir, the amendments that this Bill proposes come at the expense of fundamental human rights. The Bill requires extensive amendments to make it compliant with the Constitution and the basic concepts of fairness that lie at the heart of our procedural law.
With these few words Mr. Speaker Sir, let me conclude by saying it is an idea whose time has not yet come. I therefore urge the Minister to take on board suggestions that have been put across by Hon. colleagues that have spoken before me to the effect that Hon. Mataranyika’s Committee may need to research further on how other jurisdictions of influence to ours have duly handled this issue of virtual proceedings. I wish to thank you and also indicate that in my honest view, this Bill is entirely low on politics and should see us on either side of the aisle agreeing on the way forward. I thank you.
(v)HON. R. R. NYATHI: I want to add my voice to this Judicial Laws Amendment Bill. I want to emphasise the point that the Judiciary is one of the most important institutions of Government which should have the greatest respect and honour by all who are living in a country.
I was listening to the presentation that was given but I did not hear the presenters talking about how this Bill has fared and how it has been taken by other countries. I do not see a comparison of what this Committee did in comparison with other countries. By virtue of that, I want to think that because of that reason, this Bill has been brought into Parliament prematurely.
Secondly, I also want to mention that I understand it is difficult to come up with a Bill. Generally, people are not comfortable with change because they are used to doing things the way they are used to. This is not what I am trying to emphasise but there are things like the beliefs, the norms and values, the way we do things. I am not saying we should continue doing the court system that we found in 1950 and now but I am simply trying to emphasise the point that when we talk about virtual court proceedings, have we considered the problems we have had as a Parliament, which is one of the highest body which is well respected and well organised? However, managing only a few MPs and the kind of problems we sometimes have on virtual; now I am visualising the number of courts that are all over in a country, in Harare, Bindura, Rusape, Shurugwi, Gweru, all over. One province might have six, seven or eight courts and everyone is trying to manage a virtual platform. You will understand Hon. Speaker that this creates a number of problems in our own homes and if I am doing fine, it means that my family must be there sitting in my sitting room and I am on virtual and the magistrate or judge is sitting in his house, maybe after having a marital argument or with a child who has done wrong and that person is supposed to be giving a verdict on you. So, I do not see it happening very well. It would not augur well. More-so, how do you then know that you are calling me for a trial when I am in Zimbabwe or maybe I am already in South Africa and I am just going virtual to just hear the case but given the fact that I am convicted, how are you going to pick me up from South Africa and say Nyathi, you have been arrested and you are going to jail?
When we talk about virtual sitting, it should be done very equitably and the internet connectivity must be superb and by virtue of that, it makes it very difficult for this Bill to sail through. It will not be able to accommodate many people. So effectively, I am saying instead of us trying to put a lot of planning into making a court virtual, why do we not accommodate the welfare of many people that are working in the courts so that those people are able to get better salaries, better working conditions, tools of trade, computers, desks, etcetera instead of us going into it now when we are not yet ready to do so?
I also want to mention the issues that Hon. Biti always talks about how we should accommodate people from other places. I am thinking of how you would run a court system for somebody who, Hon. Biti always speaks of people from Chiendambuya. I also want to add people from Dotito, Muzarabani, Tsholotsho and peripheries of our country. How do we then get to those people so that we can dispense justice to them? I see that currently; this Bill is a bit rushed.
Currently Hon. Speaker Sir, you understand that the Government has been busy building courts in our provinces. I am also very happy because the Government built a very good court in Shurugwi North where I am Member of Parliament. I am very happy because the court was built professionally and when people go there, they feel comfortable and things are done above board. Are we now saying that we invested all that money to build those court rooms all over our provinces in order for them to become sleeping giants with no one utilising them? I do not think we are ready yet for that.
So I propose that it is better that we look more into the welfare of the civil servants who are working in our court rooms rather than for us to derail His Excellency, Cde. Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa’s Vision 2030 whereby we are now taking money that is supposed to benefit employees and invest it in something that is a trial and error.
Hon. Speaker Sir, decisions are made only when you are certain that this decision is going to come out positively. We do not make decisions when we think they may be 50% successful or may fail. So if we are not yet sure whether this Bill will be able to service our people comfortably, I would therefore, recommend that we set this Bill aside for a short time until we have gotten to a point where we are quite automated, our internet connectivity is almost 100% and where we also assess the literacy rate of our people and whether they have also comprehended the use of Ipads, computers and cellphones to be in court. So, I want to stand with other Hon. Members and say, may we please set this Bill aside until it is well cooked. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My contribution is very simple. I have a problem when the public are restricted in their access to cases of public interest.
My second issue is I have no problem with preparatory work right up to the stage of filing to be done. However, where I do have a problem is the issue of connectivity. We know, ourselves, from this House how difficult it is and in fact, you cannot follow debate when you are online when figures are being debated. Here we are talking of an issue of right and wrong. Now if we, in Parliament, cannot get the connectivity right, what more so in a court of law?
My issue with this is the example of the Private Voluntary Organisations (PVO) Bill that was discussed here. There were numerous issues wrong; when people could not get connected; they were not recognised when they wanted to contribute and in this House, there were Members of Parliament, in this House, hackling the Speaker not to accept people who were on virtual. When we are debating this in Parliament, we accept that but we do not accept it in a court of law. Therefore, I go back to one of the previous speakers who said, ‘It is a good idea but well before its time’, connectivity is our Achilles’ Heel in this country. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 14 to 20 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 21 has been disposed of.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
JOINT REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT AND INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE ON THE OPERATIONS OF VERIFY ENGINEERING’S VE GASES PROJECT
HON. MAPHOSA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Joint Report of the Portfolio Committees on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development and Industry and Commerce on the operations of Verify Engineering’s VE Gases Project at Feruka and the National Biotechnology Authority’s Mapfura Value-Addition and Processing Plant in Mwenezi.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I second.
HON. MAPHOSA: Introduction
The Joint Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development and Industry and Commerce conducted an enquiry into the operations of VE Gases Plant in Feruka and Mapfura Value-Addition and Beneficiation Plant in Rutenga. Verify Engineering Gases is one of the several projects being spearheaded by Verify Engineering (Private) Limited, a private company wholly owned by the Government of Zimbabwe. The VE Gases project comprises of two plants, one for oxygen and nitrogen production and the other for acetylene production.
The Mwenezi Mapfura Value Addition and Processing Plant is one of the various projects undertaken by the National Biotechnology Authority of Zimbabwe. The enquiry was motivated by the need to have an in-depth understanding of the socio-economic utility of these projects, progress made in the implementation and challenges being faced by these two entities. These plants are still in their infant phase and are yet to realise profits but they have their profit projections after a certain period of operations.
Objectives
The objectives of the enquiry were:
- To assess the progress made by Verify Engineering at the VE Gases Plant at Feruka in Mutare and the Mapfura Value Addition and Processing Plant in Mwenezi at Rutenga;
- To appreciate the operations and establish the socio-economic benefits of the plants to the country; and
- To understand the challenges faced by these plants to realise their full potential.
Methodology
The Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development held oral evidence meeting with Verify Engineering on 20 September 2021 during which the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) apprised the Committee on the progress made in the operationalisation of the VE Gases Project. The Joint Committees then conducted verification visits to the VE Gases and Mapfura projects on 9 and 11 May respectively to ascertain the progress made by these two ventures.
COMMITTEE’S FINDINGSVERIFY ENGINEERING (PRIVATE) LIMITED – VE GASES PROJECT AT FERUKA.
A Brief Background to the VE Gases Project
According to the CEO, VE Gases is a Strategic Business Unit of Verify Engineering (Pvt) Limited whose total investment at completion will be above USD20 million. The plant was commissioned on 19 August 2021 by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Hon Dr. E.D Mnangagwa. The Committee was informed that the project would be Zimbabwe’s largest industrial gas production capacity and would thrive to be the same by market share and value.
The plant produces medical and industrial oxygen, and nitrogen both in liquid and gaseous forms. The CEO also explained that by end of June 2022, VE Gases was set to add acetylene gas whose plant was at 80% completion at the time of the visit. He further informed the Committee that VE was carrying out installations of gas reticulation systems and their maintenance including installation of on-site liquid oxygen and liquid nitrogen tanks. VE Gases also does consultancy and support services on issues related to gases and chemical engineering in general. It was opined that the long-term objective was to develop technology that produce all hydrogen-based products.
Progress made by VE Gases since commissioning - the CEO first explained that the project was still in its nascent stage and therefore, had not even reached the break-even point. He apprised the Committee that the company was producing nitrogen and oxygen in both liquid and gaseous form using reverse engineering.
The Committee was informed that VE Gases Plant had the capacity to produce 50 tonnes of oxygen and nitrogen per day. The product is sold and circulated under the name VE Gases. As mentioned earlier, an acetylene gas plant was at 80% completion stage and this was expected to produce 2, 5 tonnes of acetylene gas per day.
As part of its consultancy and support services, the CEO explained that VE Gases also managed to successfully put up an oxygen, acetylene, and nitrous oxide reticulation system for Africa University’s Atomic Absorption Spectrometer as well as supplying nitrogen to Chinhoyi University Technology for the university’s artificial insemination programme.
The Committee learnt that VE Gases will be supplying Liquid Oxygen to Mozambique. Under this arrangement, VE Gases will supply liquid oxygen to several hospitals in Beira and Tete Provinces. The Government of Zimbabwe had entered into an agreement with the Government of Mozambique to that effect. The Committee was informed that the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, President Hon. Dr. E.D Mnangagwa was going to donate liquid oxygen to Botswana in a few weeks’ time after the Committees’ visit.
The company had bought two tankers, that is, one 25 tonne tanker and another 30-tonne tanker to ferry the liquid gases. The delivery of the two tankers had been delayed by COVID-19 pandemic. The company however, was expecting the delivery of the 30-tonne tanker in July 2022 and the other one in August 2022.
Socio-Economic Impact Of The Project To The Country - The CEO emphasised that supplying of nitrogen to Chinhoyi University of Technology for its oxen semen laboratory was important in the creation of synergies among local institutions, thereby cutting on importation bill for the country.
Air Commodore Dr. Eng. Kamusoko, the Verify Engineering Board Chairman, submitted that Zimbabwe required 630 000 tonnes of ammonium nitrate annually and the bulk of this was imported. He added that Verify Engineering as the centre for research, was working on reducing the import burden by aiding in the production of nitrogen and together with another Verify Engineering Project of Coal-To-Fertiliser established in Mkwasine had the capacity to make ammonia-based fertiliser. The CEO also informed the Committee that other companies such as Sable Chemical were willing to partner with Verify Engineering in this project.
The CEO explained that Verify Engineering was devising strategies to distribute its products across the country by establishing off-site gas cylinder filling stations. The Committee was shown eight (8) filling station equipment which was bought from China, ready to be transported to different substations across the country. He reassured the Committee that the substations will be equally distributed across the country to cover outlying areas.
The CEO emphasised that the production of acetylene gas, which is an important raw material in fabrication and welding in the country, would lead to the reduction of the price of the commodity. Acetylene gas is so expensive and yet an indispensable material in both industries and SMES. VE Gases informed the Committee that the company had SMEs in mind and its product will go a long way in guaranteeing affordable acetylene gas to the sector.
MWENEZI - MAPFURA VALUE ADDITION AND PROCESSING PLANT
A Brief Background to the Mapfura Project
The Project was commissioned by the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, President Hon. Dr. E.D Mnangagwa on 25 October 2021. It is in Mwenezi District at Rutenga Growth Point. The project is wholly owned by the National Biotechnology Authority of Zimbabwe. The idea was envisioned by the NBA team after working closely with the local communities in Mwenezi. The NBA learnt about the making of the Mapfura traditional beer known as “Mukumbi” in Mwenezi. However, the NBA observed that the brewing of Mukumbi brought no economic development to the communities. The NBA realised the gap in the value chain and decided to build the plant with funding from Treasury through the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
Progress Made by NBA since Commissioning of the Mapfura Plant
Dr. Savadye, the NBA CEO, submitted that they worked with local farmers (collectors) who brought the fruit to the factory. To augment the efforts by the farmers, NBA purchased a truck that also aided in transporting the fruit to the plant. One thousand and forty (1040) tonnes of Mapfura fruit were received during the first season of January to April 2022.
The Committee heard that the factory received delivery of the fruit from an average of 320 farmers per day during the first season. The collectors were paid USD5/kg for Grade A fruit. The CEO apprised the Committee that a total of USD55 800 was paid to the collectors for the first season.
The Committee was informed that at the peak of production during the first season, 128 people were employed at the plant and of these, 114 were locals with some employed on permanent basis. Further, to ensure sustainability of the project, NBA was working on ways to increase the base of Mapfura by propagating Mapfura trees.
For the first season, 52 000 litres of wine were produced and 15 tonnes of pulp was preserved. The project also aimed at realising many value chains from Mapfura and embarked on pressing the Mapfura seeds for cosmetic oil. The company was able to exhibit at the 2022 Zimbabwe International Trade Fair and the Committee heard that the response was overwhelmingly positive. The company was on its way to commercialisation.
The company had three pulpers, that is, machines used to crush the Mapfura Fruit and separate the pulp from the skin and seed. There were two smaller pulpers which produced 1,500 litres each per day. However, one bigger pulper which had a capacity to produce 30 tonnes of pulp per day was imported ready to be used in next season. The Plant Manager submitted that they needed two more pulpers to reach their full capacity.
Socio-Economic Impact Of The Project To The Country - The Committee was informed that the plant does not produce beer only but also produced wine, mahewu and cosmetic oils from the Mapfura fruit and seed. The project brought economic development to the Mwenezi community and surrounding areas through creation of employment.
The Committee was informed that at the time of the visit, there were 100 youths working at the plant and the number was expected to increase as the plant reaches its full capacity. Local communities were also benefitting through the supply of fruits to the plant and getting paid, hence improving households’ income. There were over 1000 registered farmers (collectors) who were supplying fruits to the plant.
The project used Indigenous Knowledge Systems (IKS) to improve the national bio-economy and the sustainable use of natural resources. The project aims to add value to the knowledge that existed in the local communities since time immemorial. The Mapfura was used to make the Mapfura wine which was a modification of the Mukumbi beer which is locally made.
The value addition chain also aimed to improve biomass utilisation and reducing environmental pollution. As such, the Mapfura nuts, which were left-overs from the fermentation of the beer, were pressed for oil. The oil was used in cosmetics as a topical tissue oil to reduce intensity of blemishes, moisturising and nourishing the skin. The Committee learnt that the oil could also be applied to the hair to minimise hair breakage and protect the scalp.
The Committee was informed that the project was in line with the National Development Strategy 1 (NDS-1) and Vision 2030. The CEO emphasised that the use of natural resources will increase exports and consequently foreign currency to the country. Mr Moyo, the Vice Chairman of the NBA Board, emphasised that NBA was working harmoniously with the local people and the traditional leadership, that is, the Village Heads and Chiefs. This was corroborated by the local community’s representative, Mr Baloyi, who also applauded the scientific experimentation taking place at the plant. He further submitted that more than 3000 households were participating in this project and expected the project to continue as it had resulted in employment creation. The Committee was informed that the long-term vision was to replicate the factory in other areas where the Mapfura fruit was in abundance.
Under its 2022/2023 income and expenditure estimates, NBA projected an average monthly cost of USD680,232 resulting in a monthly average profit of USD319,767 in its winery project. This was based on a production target of one million bottles of wine per month from 412, 000 litres of pulp and a direct labour requirement of 50 people. NBA provided the items needed to produce the one million bottles of wine per month.
The NBA projected that for the 2022/2023 income and expenditure estimates, it would make a monthly average profit of USD67.227 with a cost of monthly average of USD37.772 in its oil extraction project. The assumption was that from 1000 tonnes of Mapfura fruit, the factory would realise 100 tonnes of seed which should produce 50 tonnes of oil at 50% extraction rate. Ten (10) employees will be assigned to the oil making plant. The oil will be packed in 100ml pegged at USD5 per bottle that covers costs.
Quality Assurance at The VE Gases Plant and Mapfura Factory - The Committee was informed that the medical gas produced was in step with the required standards in terms of purity. The CEO reiterated that the company adhered with the World Health Organisation (WHO) guidelines which are mandatory before the product hit the market.
It was submitted that Verify Engineering has consistently maintained a purity of 99.6% gaseous oxygen. The Committee was advised that further Quality Assurance Systems were being put in place so that the distribution process is up to scratch.
There was an NBA Quality Control Department at the Mapfura Factory which is tasked with quality assurance along the production chain, from the fruit to the final products. The department randomly picked the fruit to physically check for quality and check any blemishes on the fruit. This in turn informed the grading of the fruit. The Committee heard that NBA went out into the community and educated the collectors on how to pick the fruit which would fetch high prices.
The fruit is washed and disinfected to get rid of any dirt and bacteria. The company used approved chemicals for preservation and clarifying the wine. For clarifying, they used calcium bentonite which was said to be in short supply in Zimbabwe. The wine was subjected to extreme conditions to check quality. The Committee was informed that samples were taken to the Standard Association of Zimbabwe (SAZ) and the results indicated that the samples were meeting the standards’ requirements.
Challenges Faced By The Plants - At Mwenezi Mapfura Plant, the Committee was informed that the factory was just a small demonstration hence the company needed more funding to construct infrastructure commensurate with the projected operations. There was need for additional buildings, underground storage tankers and a cellar to age the wine.
The NBA CEO also informed the Committee that the project needed funding to purchase 10 tonne refrigerated trucks. The plant also needed a bigger tanker to pasteurise the pulp. The company submitted that a 2000-litre per hour pasteuriser was needed. The Committee also heard that the company needed two more pulpers and a solar system in times of power cuts given the perishability of the Mapfura pulp. The Factory Manager revealed that six tonnes of pulp were lost due to power cuts during the first season.
The factory was heavily manual, especially the packing and branding stage. The Committee was informed that the company has plans for automation and there was need for funding towards purchasing of automated equipment.
Committee’s Observations - The Committee noted the importance of the two projects in the economic development of the nation if they are to be capacitated and reach full potential. There was unanimous agreement that the two projects presented immense opportunities for Zimbabwe, particularly in employment creation and empowerment opportunities.
The projects undertaken by both Verify Engineering and the NBA are innovation-focussed and research based and hence need Treasury support. The Committee was taken aback by the manual system at the Mapfura Plant, especially the packing and branding stage where everything was done manually.
The VE Gases projects positions the country strategically in the SADC region as evidenced by the synergies already established with Mozambique and Botswana.
The Committee also noted that the Mapfura Project dovetailed well with the Devolution Agenda as espoused by NDS1 with its emphasis on the participation of the local people in the process. The Mapfura project could be a springboard for devolution for the Mwenezi community to develop its own niche in the devolution discourse.
The symbiotic and affable relationship between the NBA and the local community was commended and was a testament of the respect the institution accorded to the local communities. This was also corroborated by the submissions from the representatives of the locals who interacted with the Committee during the visit.
The Committee observed that there was potential in NBA Mapfura Value-addition project and that its current location was restrictive for expansion given that it the factory was surrounded by other institutions.
The Committee observed that Verify Engineering has several projects which it is currently pursuing. It was noted that all these projects were of national importance. The need for massive capital injection for projects of such magnitude is inescapable and it would be a daunting task for the Government to finance all these projects.
Recommendations
The Committee recommends funding towards purchase of automated filling and packaging machinery which include a bottle fill machine, bottle caper, temper evidence seal and label machine, all valued at approximately USD53,000. The Committee recommends that the automation of the whole plant should be completed by December 2022.
The Committee recommends that Treasury avail funding for a bigger 2000 litre per hour pasteuriser given the perishability of Mapfura Pulp, this purchase should come together with the purchase of the three 2000-litre pulpers needed by the organisation all valued at USD145,000. Funding for the purchase of the pulpers and pasteuriser should be availed by December 2022.
The broad portfolio of VE Gases is instrumental in both industry and the health sector. The Committee recommends that Treasury provides funding for the finalisation of the Acetylene Gas Plant which was at 80% from completion. The funds should be provided for expeditiously to allow the acetylene gas to be on the market by end of August 2022.
The Committee hence recommends that the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development together with the Treasury facilitate funding of these projects and bring them to bankability hence allowing them to attract investors and partners.
The Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science, and Technology Development should work with the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works to identify land on which NBA should put up its Mapfura Value-Addition Plant as the current location does not allow expansion of the project. This should be achieved by October 2022.
The Committee recommends Treasury to provide funding for the construction of a bigger Mapfura Value-Addition factory since the current plant is visibly small and was put up as a demonstration plant. Funding for the construction of the expanded plant should be availed by December 2022.
The Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science, and Technology Development should identify higher and tertiary institutions which should be capacitated to design pulpers tailor-made for the crushing of Mapfura fruit and dehulling the seeds. The Committee was concerned that the NBA was using imported pulpers which were not designed for crushing Mapfura while there was potential among local institutions to come up with such machinery. Designing of the equipment should start by October 2022.
Given the erratic power supply, the Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development provides funding for the installation of a solar plant and a three phase-generator to keep the pasteurisers and refrigerators running during black-outs at the Mapfura Value-Addition Plant. This requirement is urgent and should be in place by December 2022.
The NBA needs to learn from other institutions that are doing well in the winery project to ensure that its projects become competitive at both local and international level. This can be achieved through benchmarking with other countries.
Conclusion
It is imperative to note that the VE Gases and the Mapfura Value Addition Projects are research-based and innovation-driven projects. The Committee is satisfied that these are ground-breaking projects that will have a domino effect across the economy and society if their full potential is unleashed.The VE Gases is critical in the health systems and the industrial sector where acetylene gas is demanded by larger manufacturing plants and SMEs alike. On the other hand, the Mapfura Project is a community-based project with the potential to drive devolution and to be replicated across the rural communities of Zimbabwe. This will promote the incorporation of IKS in the development of the nation. These projects however, require funding for them to be commercialised and it is the clarion call by this Committee that Treasury prioritise these projects, some of them will be a step towards self-reliance. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I rise to support the motion raised by Hon. Maphosa which is so important especially when we look at the current state of the economy in Zimbabwe. Having Verify Engineering and NBA pushing national projects that can produce products, is an important step forward, which needs budgetary support.
I am happy that we are presenting this motion to this august House towards the beginning of the budgetary process. As such, we will emphasise the need for Treasury to put more resources to Verify Engineering and NBA especially to consider the products that are being produced that are already on the market like gas and mapfura wine. You can notice from the motion that if we are going to support Verify Engineering on gas production, we are going to cut importation bill in a big way because they will be able to support the production of ammonium nitrate by producing nitrogen which is an important element in fertilizer production. We know that Zimbabwe is importing more than 300 000 tonnes of fertilizer every year. If we are going to cut this importation bill, it is going to aide economic development within the country. We should be worried as a country why such important products are not attracting huge funding from Treasury. It is something that was supposed to attract even the interest of Treasury during the Supplementary Budget as we are focusing on empowering our agricultural communities.
I know Treasury is focusing on creating a US$12 billion mining economy but the World Bank has said that the growth in agriculture is actually 5% better than the growth in the mining sector because growth in agriculture will not leave behind a trail of environmental damages as is the case with the mining sector. This is an important area which we need to support. This can lead to the development of flagship products which will carry the Zimbabwean flag. If we are going to export gas to Mozambique and Botswana, we are going to see that we do not continue to cry as a land locked country but we will realise that the positioning of Zimbabwe will become a land linked country where we are linked to other countries and we will be exporting these products and bringing in the much needed foreign currency. We can even end up exporting fertilizer to DRC, Malawi and Zambia. As an important step forward, it is more important for Treasury to start researching which countries are also importing fertilizer from South Africa so that we try to earmark those markets because these products are going to create employment opportunities. We have high levels of unemployment but if these products are going to be supported, we are going to see drivers who are going to distribute gas, retailing shops and farmers who are collecting the mapfura fruits thereby creating opportunities for income generation.
In the case of mapfura, it is not just mapfura alone but it is indicating something that is important to indigenous knowledge systems. We heard that they can also produce blackberry drink. We can also have the water berries; they can be used to manage our wetlands. We can have the berry trees in Harare where we have a challenge of land barons actually encroaching into wetlands. If we are going to plant the water berries there, we know that we are also going to harvest the fruits and those fruits are going to be used to produce consumable products like drinks and at the same time we are managing our environment. Planting of more mapfura trees will also play a key role in reforestation and environmental management. We are going to see that we can fight climate change through such products. Funding these products will actually bring into reality the concept of Education 5.0 where we are going to see the production of services and goods from our universities.
We have already seen that there is a ready market for them not only within the country but there are linkages with other institutions like the linkage between gas and Chinhoyi, the linkage between gas and welding industry in Zimbabwe, gas in health sector – they are going to benefit. This is a project which really needs more support and funding. I hope we are going to see more funding and players coming in.
As I said, our farmers are going to have more income into their pockets through natural fruits which we never thought are going to be so important but now because of the innovation and plants that are being set up, we are going to see more farmers clamouring to see setting up of such plants in their communities.
I would want to recommend that there is need to bring in public private partnerships to make sure that commercialisation of such products will actually be easy and be made a reality. Without public private partnerships, Government may not be the best institution to run these products at a commercial scale but to bring in other players, for example in the case of mapfura, we have Delta Beverages who can actually be brought in to buy shares into NBA and commercialise these products. It is something that can be easier. Sable Chemicals is happy to partner with Verify Engineering. If there are going to be modalities that are going to be put in place, these are some of the key products especially that agriculture is the mainstay of our economy. Why not push for those public private partnerships to make sure that commercialisation is actually an easy and faster way of making Zimbabweans enjoy these knowledge based innovations?
As I conclude, I also want to recommend that there is need to set up an inter-ministerial committee which brings together members from the Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Industry and Trade, Ministry of Small to Medium Enterprise Development and also to include representatives from the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. Without this Inter-Ministerial Taskforce, the drive for industrialisation remains a pipe dream in Zimbabwe. If we are going to bring all these players together, they are going to come up with a roadmap with timeframes on when we are going to expect the first production of 100 tonnes of Ammonium Nitrate in Zimbabwe. If we have this Inter-Ministerial Taskforce, we are going to see that even the much popularised Vision 2030 can be a reality. These are simple practical steps which can actually bring Zimbabwe back to its real position in the international community and in the region as the bread- basket of Africa. So it is my clarion call that we need an inter-ministerial taskforce which will make sure that such products will not die a natural death but they will see the light of the day by also pushing for more support.
It will be difficult to try and convince the Treasury/Ministry of Finance during budget debates if they do not have representatives who are acquainted with what is actually going on on the ground. We are happy that with the Committee on Industry, we are now at the same level because they were able to drink the mapfura wine. They were able to taste the mapfura wine; they were able to see what is actually happening and because of that, there is much value and we see the need for more financial support. The financial support that is going to be given will not be a waste of resources. These resources will also enable the country to cut the importation bill; create employment opportunities and create linkages to bring in the much needed foreign currency into the country. I submit Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. TOGAREPI: I want to thank Hon. Maphosa for her report, which I think was an eye opener and well done report that spoke to areas that I have so much interest in. I really feel that we are sitting on opportunities. If as a country we take advantage of – I just want to speak on the issue of mapfura and other fruits that we have in Zimbabwe in abundance. When you look at the fruits, like mapfura, it has already demonstrated that it can create income for people in those communities where the plant is found in abundance. In terms of the machinery that have been put there to produce wine and the other products that she was mentioning, those people can start earning incomes.
What we may want to do as a Government is to come up with studies. How long does it take for a mapfura tree to grow and then give us fruits? Can we start growing these plants so that we can make more income for our people from mapfura? I also want to say our universities should also start studying some of the fruits. In my constituency Gutu South, we have a lot of chechete. If Hon. Members and you Mr. Speaker would know, it is a very nice and carbohydrate rich fruit. If you travel along Gutu-Chiredzi road and if you eat that, you will see it is so nutritious, maybe so nice eating. We do not find chechete in our hotels for some strange reasons. We find some fruits that we do not even know. We end up eating them. Are they healthy for us, we do not even know. People come up with all funny stories about those fruits but chechete, we have eaten those since I was a young boy. If somebody was going to carry out a study on chechete, you may discover that it has some heath benefits. It may be very nutritious that we can also sell it abroad. We have those nice trees naturally. We have them in abundance but nobody is taking advantage of that and taking to commercialise them.
We have fruits like mazhanje, during their season, you see them being sold along the roads. We see that there is a market for them. You see very big cars full of mazhanje but nobody has even thought of how to preserve them in order to eat them throughout the year. I think Hon. Maphosa and your Committee, we may want you to sit down with the ministries that are in charge – seeing the advantages that we have derived from mapfura, can we not take those advantages to other fruits that we have?
In Masvingo and part of Matabeleland South, we have got tsubvu, that black fruit. It is so nice eating. Matohwe, they are so nice eating, you see people, they like them but what are we doing to value add them or to popularise them and maybe find them everywhere as a commercial crop? When we look at apples, wherever they are coming from, I would believe that they started as wild fruits and somebody then said we need to grow more. Maybe studies were done even to graft or to do anything that improved the production of those trees. Why can we not do that? These are God-given. They are found in our communities, free of charge. If we start planting more of those trees and start selling them because it is about popularising; you hear apple is popularised in many ways and you start liking an apple, but surely we do not know what is in an apple. It may be one of the sources of cancer or something because we are not used to them. We are not eating what was designed for African people.
So, I really want to encourage that we encourage our Government, ministries and universities to start serious studies on Zimbabwean fruits. It is critical that you go today in a hotel and you find it is all English food. If you go to their countries you will never find sadza rezviyo. You would not get it until you ask for it. You would not eat what you eat here until you ask for it but here, our people have to look for our own food. It is not found anywhere because we are not strategically placing our food so that it also has a commercial value. I think as a Government, we can start such new ventures like the report said. The production of the gas and mapfura wine, it is a new area that we have ventured into. If we can look at many other areas and start on those new ventures, they will create employment. They will create more expertise among our people.
So, we will develop from our own resources. We must realise that we still have potential within what we have to develop our country before we even think about developing from imported or other ideas. From our own resources, we can develop this country if we can only target looking at the availability of the specific resources.
Mr. Speaker, I really felt I should contribute to this. I am so excited that Mapfura has already demonstrated to us as a people that it can give employment, wine and all the other bi-products that can come from it. Let us go to another resource and tape from the expertise of our people and see what happens to the development of our country. I thank you.
HON. I. NYONI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Let me start by thanking the Chairperson, Hon. Maphosa for presenting a detailed report supported by Hon. Hamauswa on the very important subject. Traditionally, mapfura fruit or amaganu, I am sure you are all aware that this fruit has been used to produce traditional beer. Some of us have tested it before. It is called umkumbi. It is quite important that this fruit is now being used to try and produce more products and do it commercially so that people can get more value addition on this fruit. The products that are being produced by Mapfura value processing plant in Mwenezi are mapfura wine and some cosmetic oil. I hope it is an improvement from the traditional umkumbi. Fortunately, I had the luck to also test the mapfura wine that was produced at the mini plant. It was quite tasty. However, it appears that the wine is still not readily available in most shops but it was being displayed at the Zimbabwe Trade Fair this year. Perhaps, it is due to the size of the production plant which is small and on an experimental basis.
Mapfura processing plant in Mwenezi is a good example of empowerment of locals and devolution. Locals collect the seeds and sell them to the manufacturer and the product that comes out, as I have mentioned earlier, is the mapfura wine. The full potential of the project might go a long way in improving the lives of the locals and earning of foreign currency for our country. The projects from Verify Engineering and Mapfura Value Processing Plant need further support from the fiscus so that there is growth. This will go a long way in promoting import substitution and exports that will earn our country the much needed foreign currency. It will also go a long way in job creation for locals in particular. Hon. Speaker Sir, thank you very much.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 22 to 35 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 36 has been disposed of.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON NON-COMPLIANCE WITH REGARDS TO SUBMISSION OF FINANCIAL STATEMENTS TO THE AUDITOR-GENERAL BY SOME STATE OWNED ENTERPRISES AND PARASTATALS
Thirty-Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on non-compliance with regards to Submission of Financial Statements to the Auditor-General by some State Owned enterprises and Parastatals.
Question again proposed.
HON. SANSOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to wind up the motion on the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the non-submission of financial statements to the Auditor-General by some State-owned enterprises and parastatals.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in winding up this motion, I would like to express my gratitude to those Members who contributed to the debate, particularly Hon. Mushoriwa and Hon. B. Dube the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee. Hon. Mushoriwa emphasised the need for all Government entities to submit their financial statements for audit within three months of the end of their financial year as well as the need to comply with the Constitution in as far as financial management is concerned. He also emphasised the need to comply with the Public Finance Management Act and the Audit Office Act.
However, several entities failed to submit their accounts for audit citing various reasons ranging from COVID-19 restrictions, failure by their parent ministries to appoint boards of directors and failure to have competent technical staff to prepare accounts for audit. Hon. Mushoriwa also cited several places of contravention of the Public Finance Management Act as well as the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act. He called for transparency and accountability in order to curb corruption.
Hon. B. Dube, the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee, also called for transparency and accountability in public entities. He pointed out that by failing to present themselves for audit scrutiny, such entities were actually acting illegally and unconstitutionally. They were also making it difficult for Parliament to exercise oversight over their entities. Hon. Dube also said that accounting officers or Chief Executive officers of such entities were being unpatriotic by failing to subject their entities for audit scrutiny.
The lack of adequate skills and IT infrastructure was also cited as a major impediment to the production of financial statements for audit as well as the issue of underfunding for some parastatals. With these few remarks, Mr. Speaker, I now move for the adoption of the report.
Motion that this House takes note of the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the non-compliance with regards to submission of Financial Statements to the Auditor-General by some State owned enterprises and Parastatals, put and adopted.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI seconded by HON. A. NDEBELE, the House adjourned at Nine Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 27th September, 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 21st September, 2022
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PETITION RECEIVED FROM ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE COMBINED HARARE RESIDENTS ASSOCIATION
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order. I have to inform the House that on 11th August, 2022, Parliament received a petition from the Acting Director of the Combined Harare Residents Association beseeching Parliament to summon the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to appear before Parliament and explain among other things, the constitutionality of the Ministry’s actions of imposing its own developmental priorities on the use of devolution funds. The petition was deemed inadmissible as the matter had already been dealt with by the courts. The petitioners have since been advised accordingly.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
Hon. Nyabote having stood up to pose a question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, may you exercise your humility and be more accommodative. We are not all of the same level. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. If I am not mistaken, the Standing Orders do have a provision for an Hon. Member to ask a question on behalf of another Member. I do not know if I am correct. I was thinking that I would volunteer to talk to him and then ask a question on his behalf.
THE HON. SPEAKER: On written questions.
HON. T. MLISWA: That is why I am asking. But my real initial point of order was, yesterday you did announce that we must be here on time before the Speaker’s procession. The same message must go to the Executive Members. Hon. Ziyambi is Leader of Government business but he could be late at times and it does not stop him from communicating to who should act in his absence and so forth because he has so many duties. It is only proper for us to know who is really absentand who is not, and you did not call a list of Ministers who are absent. It is just a matter of procedure and courtesy to the Chair and other Hon. Members
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon Ministers who are here present, you do not go to Cabinet 10 minutes after. You are always there on time. This is an institution that works with you as and when it is required to do so. Can you be on time? The Leader of Government business has accepted what Hon. Mliswa has said and I am sure he will act accordingly.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have just received the following apologies:
Hon. Dr. C. D. G. N. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care;
Hon. Sen. M. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services;
Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance and Economic Development;
Hon. C. Chiduwa, Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development;
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care and in his absence, to the Leader of the Government Business. My question is that in our constituencies, we have a lot of mental cases as a result of abuse of drugs by young people. What is Government planning to do regarding the construction of shelters for rehabilitation of such people? This is a serious issue which our people are facing.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to appreciate the pertinent question regarding the issue of drug abuse that was asked by Hon. Moyo. However, the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare is responsible for such issues. I notice that the Deputy Minister is in the House, he can respond accordingly. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Hon. Speaker. Through the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Government gave us the task of collecting data throughout the country, from universities. In the past two weeks, we have been talking to students. We encouraged them to form anti-drug abuse campaign groups and do peer education against drug abuse. On the same vein, we had police officers and other stakeholders in the fight against drug abuse. Currently, we have different ministries, including our police force. We work with them because most crimes like violence crimes, homicide and others are a result of drug abuse.
We do not have rehabilitation centres for now where we will be able to rehabilitate these young people. The most important thing that we are doing is the different campaigns where we educate people about effects of drug abuse. Most young people are showing interest in the discourse and some having shown remorse over drug abuse. The last thing that I want us to address is the source. We need to identify the source, those who supply drugs to these young people. We are investigating such people; those who sell mutoriro and other illicit brews which are affecting the psychological state of many people.
However, the issue of rehabilitation centres is an issue which is handled by the Ministry of Health and Child Care. We have a number of centres where we refer people through the Ministry of Health and Child Care. We normally identify people who are addicted to drugs and refer them to such centres. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I did not get the Minister’s response concerning the rural areas. These are hotspots and citizens in the rural areas are facing challenges. I did not hear that part but he responded regarding the provincial set up; where should rural people go? I thank you.
*HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Regarding those in the rural areas, this is a challenge. This is what I addressed and I said that we are moving around different provinces empowering young people with information regarding drug abuse. However, for those who are intoxicated already, who are deep into drugs, we take individual cases where we will rehabilitate them but we do not have a specific shelter for those who are in rural areas. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. This is a very topical issue and you can see the interest from Hon. Members. Those sitting are equally interested in debating on this because there is a concoction of issues; unemployment, economy and all that. So, it will be good for a Ministerial Statement or a motion to be moved because it is a serious issue. We would not have done any justice if we do not really go that far. It really affects everyone in the society.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are suggesting two issues - a Ministerial Statement and a motion?
HON. T. MLISWA: I think a Ministerial Statement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Granted, Hon. Minister, prepare a detailed Ministerial Statement.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I propose that when he prepares the Ministerial Statement, he should also include the rehabilitation of our veterans that have similar mental issues arising from their experience from the struggle. If he includes that, I will be most grateful. Thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: My point of clarity is that whilst the Minister is coming with a Ministerial Statement, this is not a welfare issue but there are other ministries that should be involved in the statement, or is it going to be a joint statement so that there is clarity whether it is Home Affairs and other ministries?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is a good observation. Hon. Minister you will coordinate with colleagues. There is a joint Ministerial Committee chaired by the Ministry of Public Service, so they will deal with the issue there and come up with a joint statement. Thank you.
*HON. NYABOTE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I will direct my question to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development. We have problems in the mining areas and we find that communities are not benefiting from the mining activities in their areas. When can we expect the Mines and Minerals Act to be reviewed to consider communities surrounding these mines? How are they going to benefit from this law?
THE HON. SPEAKER: When can we have the Mines and Minerals Bill? It is long overdue.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thought the act was gazetted last week. I am going to engage them so that it is gazetted tomorrow.
Hon. Nduna having stood up to ask a supplementary question
THE HON. SPEAKER: Honestly, where does the supplementary question arise? The Hon. Minister said he is giving the department responsible a directive that gazetting be done in the next two days. What the Hon. Leader of Government Business said is adequate. Let us wait for that Bill. Thank you.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. How far has Government gone with processing of title deeds of houses which were built in the 1960s where you find people still paying council fees without title deeds? These houses were occupied by our parents before we were born but up to now, there are no title deeds yet they are the owners of these houses. What is Government doing regarding that?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. The issue of title deeds is under the purview of the Ministry of Justice.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The issue of title deeds has been discussed and His Excellency, the President mentioned that we have a lot of people in different towns who are living without title deeds. He formed an Inter-Ministerial Committee which I Chair, that includes the Ministry of Local Government, Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education and other Ministries. We thought it was easy just to issue title deeds but there are some issues that need due diligence so that we do not give title deeds to people who are not deserving. We have a committee which is moving around. At the moment we have identified 6000 households in Epworth. The team is going door to door to check that the information which is at the local board and the documentation that they have is the same so that when we issue title deeds, we issue them to the correct people. The verification and review process is cumbersome but we are doing our best so that we take it to other areas like Glenview, Highfield and other areas where we find people occupying houses without title deeds so that they have collateral also.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister …
Hon. Chidakwa having been conversing with some Members loudly
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member behind the seat there, can you leave the House. Can you leave the House! Do not disturb the Hon. Member who is speaking. You were making noise there. Can you go out – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Chidakwa walked out of the House.
*HON. MATSUNGA: My supplementary question is, Hon. Minister, do you know that Epworth is a new location? Locations like Mufakose, Glenview and Highfield are older than Epworth. These were built in the 60s, earlier than Epworth. These are areas where there are houses and you will find that there are houses in Epworth which are not on plans. You cannot compare these to the locations that I am talking about which are locations which have houses on plans.
* HON. ZIYAMBI: The houses that the Hon. Member is mentioning are houses which are different from Glenview. We agreed that this should be applied to different locations. The City of Harare is responsible for these procedures. However, His Excellency the President said that because the City of Harare is failing to do this, it was decided that we are not going to choose whether it is Epworth, Glenview, Gwanda or any other location but we are planning anew, considering every urban location. So we are starting with the first location being Epworth then we are going to spread the programme to the other areas. I thank you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, he said in this House under oath that the Government is now taking over zvikwereti zvese zvekumashure zvaibhadharwa nevanhu.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say under oath?
HON. MUNENGAMI: Yes, because if he is here, is it not that he is under oath in whatever he says? What we want Hon. Speaker is clarification. The Hon. Minister said that all the money that is owed…
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Ask your question.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: My question to the Hon. Minister is that the debts that you referred to in this august House and you said that Government is taking over the debts which were owed by citizens of the nation is what you are taking about.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Honourable what is the question?
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. With due respect, Hon. Paradza has not been around for a long time Mr. Speaker. I think we need to be very clear and fair. Hon. Paradza does not come here to Parliament. When he comes, he wants to make noise. He sits at the corner with Hon. Matangira there. They are there. They are strategically positioned to make noise. Being a former headmaster, bring them here so that you can watch them. When children are naughty in class, the one who is naughty is monitored. I therefore recommend you bring them close here so that they can behave themselves. He is disastrous. He is a member of the youth, but a shame to the ZANU PF Politburo. He must behave himself. He must behave like a member of the ruling party Politburo. This is nonsense to the youth. He is the leader of the youth, so what example is he setting? Musatore zvigaro kana musina kudzidza vana Paradza – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Paradza, where are you? It is John Paradza. If you are going to be recognised now you will be out. Thank you.
HON. MAVETERA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. Hon. Mliswa said he is a disgrace to the youth. May he please withdraw those words. As the ruling party, we have elected him as our leader. He has no right to say that we made a mistake. He has to withdraw. He is our leader as a party and that is what we have decided. He has to withdraw. Thank you Mr. Speaker. It is only fair for him to withdraw because it is also a disgrace to us as a party. He has to withdraw – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I have understood the context of that statement. He said as a youth he must be disciplined. There is nothing wrong with that.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister that - is Government going to cancel all the debts so that Government clears the debts?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: When I was explaining I said that what we are doing regarding the title deeds is that there are monies which are supposed to be paid and the President is saying that for people who have occupied these houses for a long time, Government is going to clear the fees for the processing of title deeds, for instance, surveys and plans and the verification process of the identities of the title deed holders. This will be done so that there is physical inspection to determine the person who is going to receive the title deeds. We do not want to issue title deeds to the wrong people.
These are processes which need funding. This is what Government is saying so that our people have title deeds which will benefit their families. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would want to know from the Hon. Minister the issue of timelines. The houses in question belong to the old aged and what is happening is, the councilors and the council officials are busy taking over these houses from those that would have passed on at the detriment and much to the chagrin of the families of our dearly departed. How much time do we expect that this exercise will be completed so that our people can and must not be unfairly disenfranchised after the demise of their dearly departed old aged owners of the houses, kana yava nyaya yechirungu.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Sit down, please do not make noise when you have asked a good question.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member. At this juncture, I am extremely hesitant to give timelines. It is an exercise that we are learning every day. Initially, I thought we could do it extremely fast but we realise that we need to follow all the processes and it is an exercise that we are starting to do now, it has never been done. So, I believe that after the pilot project in Epworth, we will be able to now say we can do Caledonia within a month or within three weeks. As of now, I am cautious not to give timelines. I thank you.
HON. MURAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that I want to know the factors you consider when giving these title deeds to people?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Do you want factors or criteria?
HON. MURAI: Factors or criteria, to say of late...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, we got the question.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The initial criteria is in every local authority area, the local authority is aware of people who are staying in houses but they do not have title deeds. The first port of call is to ensure that they visit the said local authority and get from their database, names of who occupy houses in that particular locality. There are visits to verify if indeed those people are the bonafide owners of those places. Once all that has been done, we then go further to start processing the papers so that the necessary deeds can come out.
(v)+HON. L. SIBANDA: I thank you Mr. Speaker – [rest of question inaudible due to network challenges].
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Your question cannot be heard.
(v)+HON. L. SIBANDA: Inaudible due to network failure
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Please put your question in writing so that we understand it; write your question down so that we understand it.
*HON. MAVETERA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. We witnessed the death of an actress by the name Mai Sorobhi. There were some challenges but I am glad that our Government managed to intervene. I once asked about the welfare of content creators. What is Government doing to better the lives of these people who entertain people through acting? What is Government policy in bettering the lives of these people because when they die, that is when we see that they were living in poverty and needed assistance? I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: On the question of Hon. Mavetera, she is constantly saying - what is the Government doing to support the artists? As a seasoned politician, she should push for a law to be able to accommodate the actors. As long as there is no law talking about that, it will not happen; it becomes rhetoric or political statement. As a legislator, bring the law here; move a motion and we support you. It is a genuine cause. For as long as you are just talking about it, they say you are working for nothing. Bring a motion and that will help you because we are tired of this question at the end of the day. They are dying and more will die. Bring a motion and we will support you. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, Hon. Mavetera has a right to ask a question and the Minister is supposed to answer that question.
HON. T. MLISWA: If it is not Government policy and law, why is she asking?
The Hon. Minister having stood up to answer the question.
HON. NDEBELE: Hakuna mubvunzo, what are you answering?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. K. PARADZA): Can I answer in English?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes please.
HON. K. PARADZA: Madam Speaker, through our communication strategy as a Ministry, we have established a number of platforms and outlets...
HON. T. MLISWA: We need to be clear; this institution is about responding to the law and policy. He must tell us about policy not strategy, strategy is not a policy, it is a question of semantics and be honest because we are wasting time. What policy has the Ministry got in assisting artists and actors who die as paupers...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please do not keep on disrupting the Minister, may the Minister be allowed to answer please.
HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker, what we have done as a Ministry is that we have drafted a film policy which is what we are dealing with right now. Not only that, we have also established several platforms and outlets whereby content creators can be creative and produce quality content which they can monetize. We have up to seven television stations right now which they can sell their content to. On top of that, we also have radio stations where they can create their dramas and sell to those radio stations.
The country is now poised to transform this media industry to become a multimillion dollar industry. How are we going to do that? We have not amended the Broadcasting Services Act so that we allow foreign investors to come and invest in the media, especially the broadcasting services media. These investments will create a lot of outlets and not only television, I am also talking about radio – [HON. BITI: The Hon. Minister is not answering the question.] – What we are encouraging Madam Speaker is for our Zimbabweans to be creative and create quality content which they can monetize. This content will create money for them.
Madam Speaker, those who are film makers, can make use of these outlets and those who are able to do dramas or skits can also do that. This can be done through several platforms. Through our film policy, these are some of the things we are doing as a Ministry. Thank you.
*HON. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is that since the Hon. Minister is saying that there is a film policy, you find that some actors and actresses go and perform then they will submit their productions but they are not paid or they are paid late. What policies are there which protect artists so that artists are paid in time? Thank you.
*HON. PARADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I said that as a Ministry, we have enacted polices which protect content creators especially those who produce dramas, they must produce entertaining dramas which will be monetized, which can be sold to televisions like ZBC. They are saying that they are not being paid. , As the Ministry, we gave a directive that when independent producers and content creators have sold their productions, they must be paid by ZBC. Those who were not paid, including artists who were not paid, ZBC cleared their debts even for artists, musicians and for dramas. It is not ZBC but those who sell to ZTN are given their monies, those who go to 3KTV are paid their monies and those who send to DSTV are paid their monies. We also gave AZ Television in East Africa permission to buy content from Zimbabwe.
As Government we want the media industry to make money, that is why we say that even foreign investments should be injected into the Ministry. I thank you.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Minister is not responding to the question. The question is: what is Government going to do in terms of empowering our content creators, actors and other artists so that they make money. The Hon. Minister is talking about media houses making money, we are not saying that media houses are poor but we are talking about the late Mai Sorobhi, Paraffin and other actors.
*HON. PARADZA: I think the Hon. Member wants to confuse the Information, Publicity Ministry and the Social Welfare. We are not a social welfare ministry but we urge people to make money through their creative work. However, we think that when we are going to come up with the film policy, we are going to include the different content creators and we are going to engage them so that they make money instead of them to receive money, we are not social welfare but we want to monetize their productions. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: The Hon. Minister is failing to grasp the situation. They go to Social Welfare because you have made them poor, you are not paying them. There is the aspect of patent and intellectual property rights. What are you doing to ensure that when somebody has a song or a play, there is no pirating that happens, you protect that, it is called patent and intellectual property rights which then becomes the way to manage monetize and so forth. Can you respond to your policy on patent and intellectual property rights so that we avoid pirating and they become poor and you refer them to the Social Welfare because already they have a gift and their gift must be monetised through intellectual property rights. I see the Hon. Minister of Justice is agreeing. If you do not understand what intellectual property right is, he can help you and I think we can make some progress.
HON. PARADZA: Actually you are right, it is not within our purview but it is within his purview. Also, because you have digressed from the focus of the question, I will refer that question to the Minister of Justice who is the Leader of the House and who will deal specifically with patents. Madam Speaker, tati isusu – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
(v)HON. KASHIRI: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi in the absence of the Minister of Mines. Do we have a lithium policy which we will ride on to set up a lithium manufacturing plant in Zimbabwe?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I was hoping that the Hon. Member being a legislator from Mashonaland West, followed attentively proceedings at State House on Friday, where the mine to Energy Park was signed - that with essence speaks to what he is asking about. That particular area in Mashonaland West, Mapinga area, will be mining and beneficiating and a plant will be set up exactly in the way he is asking. I would kindly refer him to the text of that speech and the proceedings if he was not aware that something like that is happening within his backyard. I thank you.
HON. BITI: My question is directed to the Leader of the House, Hon. Ziyambi, the Minister of Justice. Minister, I was very pleased with the indications and the Government actions that are being taken towards the provision of title deeds to urban dwellers, but 70% of our people actually live in communal lands occupying about 19 million hectares of land. Despite the war of liberation that we fought, people in communal lands actually do not have land rights. Section 4 of the Communal Lands Act actually diverts them from land. As a person who comes from Dotito, I am wondering - yes it is okay to give title deeds to people in Mufakose, Glenview and Vhengere but what about us in Murewa South, Dotito and Chiendambuya whose land was taken away by white people and dispossessed through the Land Apportionment Act of 1941? Up to now - 43 years after independence, we cannot own land in our own rural areas. We now have Chinese people and the likes of Billy Rautenbach coming to take our land. Can you address the issue of our own land rights for us people who live in communal lands?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker for the question that Hon. Biti asked. My response is that there is a difference between the processes that we are doing to issue title deeds to urban dwellers and the land tenure system within agricultural and communal areas. We are issuing title deeds in urban areas because that is exactly what is supposed to have been there within the confines of the laws currently. That exercise is being done to satisfy what should have been done. So there is a separation between that and the issue of title deeds and the land tenure system within communal areas and where we have rural land for agriculture.
Coming to the issue of title deeds within the communal areas and other designated land tenure systems that is a conversation that as Zimbabweans we can start but currently, the communal land is vested in the President. It is for the people and should not be sold. Equally, agricultural land, we have a tenure system that obtains now of offer letters and 99-year leases. That is what is obtaining but the Hon. Member is not precluded from starting a conversation to say let us come up with a different land tenure system. If a policy is adopted in that regard then we can move in that direction but the urban title deed process, let us not mix it with historical issues that arose out of the land tenure system that was brought upon by the colonisers. I thank you.
*HON. BITI: Madam Speaker ma’am, I would like to pose my supplementary question to the Minister. We went for war to fight for land and the Hon. Minister is saying that every citizen of this country has the right to own a house in whatever part of the country. However, people are not getting the land and you find some people coming to take away that land, claiming to be owners of that land. We need to examine the land tenure policy because we had people playing different roles as war collaborators and war veterans but you find that even village heads and traditional leaders are not empowered to deal with land tenure issues; for those who come from rural areas and need land. Some have their ancestors’ graves in different localities but do not have legal right to that land. I thank you.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Member for the supplementary question. People did not go to war because of title deeds but it was an issue of right to land, which is a very critical issue. We want to compare title deeds in urban centres with land in the rural areas. I do not believe that the Chinese are taking over people’s land, whether it is those in mining or farming. When the Mines and Minerals Act comes to this august House, it is going to clarify a lot of issues. However, land in the rural areas is not sold. There are Chinese or white people who are taking over such land and no one is selling such land to them but there are people who were coming to prospect for minerals. You will discover that the Hon. Member has a right to engage us in how the Land Tenure Act should be reviewed. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to know, if it pleases the Hon. Minister, to attach Section 72 (7) (c) of the Constitution which is the background of the issue of this land. The land which is agricultural is the one that has now been urbanised through the master plan for the urban expansion. So the urban land is now residing in the agricultural land. Fast forward, when you now bring the agricultural land into the urban society, Section 205 (1) (c) of the Urban Councils Act has three provisions that speak to selling the land, leasing and also giving it for free. Section 152 (1) (a) of the same Urban Councils Act speaks to those three issues as well. Would it please the Minister to align those provisions of the Act of Parliament to the Constitution, which is sui-generis? Section 2 says it should be repudiated to the extent of inconsistency if it is inconsistent with the Constitution so that the 10 hectares of land which is being given for free in the agricultural land can also be given with title for free in the urban society. Would it please the Minister that the 10hectares which is now 100 000 ha and if it is sold to the urbanites costs US$25 million which all the civil servants will not have? Would it please the Minister to align those provisions of the Act of Parliament with the Constitution so that the people can at least have 200sq meters of agricultural land which has title deeds, which land is being given for free to the agricultural society? The urbanites are made to buy that land because we have not aligned the Urban Councils Act with the Constitution. Would it please the Minister to give title to the agricultural land to the urbanites in the same way that we are giving title to those that are in the rural side? I say this with conviction because I have also been incarcerated for misalignment.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Speaker ma’am. I am not too sure I understood what Hon. Nduna is trying to say. We have urban land that will be designated by the relevant Minister as urban land. Then we have communal land and agricultural land. The Minister of Lands and Agriculture is the one who transfers the land upon gazetting when it has been designated urban land. Once it is urban land, then it can be subdivided and there will be value addition because you need to do the necessary processes to ensure that people stay in that particular area. So, let us differentiate land that has been converted for urban development to agricultural land and State land that is vested with the Minister of Lands and Agriculture.
My position is, we have a land tenure system within the communal land and our agricultural sector that exists. If we need a conversation of changing that, then as a people, we can start that conversation. However, currently we have a system that is there and let us not confuse it either with our war of liberation or our incarceration or whatever. It is the system that is there now. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Point of clarity Madam Speaker Ma’am. Will it please the Minister to align those provisions of the Urban Councils Act expeditiously with the Constitution? That question has not been answered.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your problem Hon. Nduna is that you do not ask a straight forward question but you go round in circles.
HON. NDUNA: It is not for the faint hearted Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let him take his time.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker for recognising me but it looks like the Hon. Minister has just dashed out of the building. I will just ask the question, I do not know whether there is an Acting Leader of the House who can take up the question.
The Hon. Deputy Speaker conferred with the Government Chief Whip.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sorry Hon. Gonese; I am being advised that the Hon. Minister has been called by the Speaker.
The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs having returned to the Chamber
HON. GONESE: He has just come in; he has come in now Madam Speaker, saved by the bell. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is: is the Hon. Minister not aware that this conversation relating to title deeds both in respect of agricultural and communal land started ages ago, as long back as 2000 when the Land Reform Programme started? As the Opposition, we were very clear that in order to empower people who were getting land, people should get title deeds. I do not know whether the Hon. Minister was in this country when that conversation started?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask your question Hon. Gonese.
HON. GONESE: I want to find out from the Hon. Minister that since this is a conversation that has been topical in this country, what is Government thinking because Government must also have a thinking in respect of that particular aspect; in terms of empowering the people of Zimbabwe who reside in agricultural and communal lands and were allocated stands? In fact, the issue of the 99-Year Leases not being bankable was actually raised, and was one of the critical issues…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It seems as if you are debating Hon. Gonese. Why can you not just ask your question Hon. Gonese?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I am asking the Hon. Minister to indicate as to whether he is not aware that this conversation started ages ago? More importantly, what is Government’s thinking about it as it is something that has been topical in this country?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Our thinking is that we have a functional system that is open to improvements.
HON. T. MLISWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. Hon. Minister, it is a double-edged sword in that first of all; what action is the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) and your Ministry taking to ensure that the payments for farmers are on time? What plans do you have for the 2022/23 season? How well prepared are you so that the farmers understand and are confident and hopeful of the coming season? So basically, it is the outstanding payments of the 2022 season and the future plans for the 2022/23 season. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mliswa for the questions. The first question relates to the outstanding payments by Grain Marketing Board (GMB) to farmers. Perhaps to put this into context, in previous years, GMB would go for months to years without paying farmers. Over the past two years, Government has endeavored to pay farmers timeously, and GMB as of today, the outstanding amounts are less than seven days old. GMB intends to pay the $2.7 billion that is outstanding to farmers for grain delivered before the end of the week. We thank Treasury for acting expeditiously in this regard.
May I also take advantage and indicate that we will also announce a price for the wheat season next week? It will be a very lucrative one and GMB and Government have put in place all the necessary mechanisms to ensure that farmers are paid as expeditiously as is humanly possible.
Madam Speaker, coming to the second aspect which is critical on preparedness on summer 2022-2023; riding on the successful and historic performance that we had for winter where we put 80 000 hectares under wheat, and predicting 385 000 metric tonnes which is a record for the country. We want to build on this capability, this competence that we built so that we can do similarly for summer, and for summer, there will be four financing arrangement.
The first is those who fail to self-finance themselves and the second one and most popular and wide ranging is the Presidential Climate Proofed Input Scheme for Pfumvudza traditional grains, maize and also for cotton. We are going to support 3.5million households for Pfumvudza/Intwasa; 500 000 of these would be peri-rural rather than peri-urban. Then the third one is where we are looking at the Government guaranteed schemes for commercial agriculture being financed via AFC and CBZ. Again, we expect a very good performance because they are marshalling the resources that are required to enable them to finance farmers.
We also have the private sector coming on board to finance farmers and we are looking at value chain financing as a way of assuring the 40% raw material supply to those contractors as per Government policy. So, we are very prepared for this season and for those Government supported schemes, we have now started the rolling out for Pfumvudza which has gone extremely well over 1.7 million households as of yesterday. We have done rolling out, out of the target of 3.7 million.
May I also Madam Speaker, highlight that we have two new variations to the Presidential Climate Proofed Scheme. The first one is we will have farmer field schools and will have 35 000 schools, one in each village. So there will be one at every sabhuku’s homestead to ensure that the principle of sustainable intensive farming, which is Pfumvudza/Intwasa are inculcated into everyone so that we can climate proof ourselves at household level.
The second variation and perhaps an innovation tool of fine tuning Pfumvudza/Intwasa is that what a grower or farmer produces in an agro-ecological region is not determined by what they want but is determined by the requirements and exigencies of that particular agro-ecological region. It therefore follows that what Government supports in a particular agro-ecological region is determined by the requirements of the agro-ecological region and less what Government wants and less what the farmer wants. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Minister, I am happy with your responses but what is always a problem in agriculture is the finance model. You have got CBZ that has been getting farmers to pay in USD and then you have got AFC which is a noble cause and which really is supposed to be the bank for farmers. What have you done to ensure that AFC is well capacitated in giving out loans to the farmers, because they are finding it difficult to go to CBZ now? If you do not have another financing vehicle, it will be very difficult for farmers to continue farming the next season. I thank you.
HON. DR. MASUKA: I thank Hon. Mliswa for the supplementary question. The Government is resuscitating AFC to see the changing agricultural landscape and the need to finance farmers from communal A1 owned resettlement, Matenganyika through to A2. It is in this regard that AFC has the four windows, Land and Development Bank, a dedicated development finance institution to provide financing for farmers irrespective of category. The AFC leasing which we have capacitated with tractors and combine harvesters so that farmers that do not have the capacity to purchase their own equipment can get access to tillage services and combining services as well as insurance so that insurance becomes the collateral rather than asking brick and mortar collateral. So we have to the extent possible capacitated AFC to finance at least 65 000 ha. of commercial agricultural.
Additionally, AFC will also finance a very substantial amount of irrigation schemes via the Agricultural and Rural Development Authority. Over and above this, AFC has received Government guarantees worth or equivalent to 156 million USD to enable them to finance agriculture in the 2022-2023 agricultural season. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: May the Hon. Minister explain the kind of arrangement we have on the payment of grain that would have been delivered to the GMB. Is it the GMB that pays for the grain delivered or it is the Government that pays? If it is so, what happens to that grain that would have been delivered to the GMB? Year in, year out, there is an outcry from farmers and for all these years, including this year, the Government has not got it right because it is not clear whose responsibility it is to pay the farmers. Is it that the GMB gets money from the Government so that it pays the farmers or the GMB because it receives and purchases grain, it then uses the funds it gets from those processes to pay for the grain?
HON. DR. MASUKA: I do not know where the confusion is arising; I explained that Treasury has done extremely well in availing resources to GMB in order to pay farmers timeously. Therefore, it follows that the money comes from Treasury to GMB for the payment of farmers. When the farmers are paid, they deliver grain to the GMB and the GMB issues a warehouse receipt to Treasury and when GMB sells, returns the money to Treasury. So the arrangement is quite straight- forward.
HON. BITI: My question is to the esteemed Minister of Agriculture, Hon. Dr. Masuka. As a farmer, my biggest concern is with the pricing models. Grower prices are announced but because of the macro-economic environment, by the time that the farmer plants, that price would have been eroded by inflation. If you take grain at the present moment, farmers are actually not delivering to the GMB because the price of USD90 and ZWL100 000 is simply not competitive. More-so, in the context that the Government itself is importing maize from Zambia, Tanzania at a price that is between USD270 to USD300, so the pricing model is devaluing the farmers. May I ask the Minister why he is simply not allowing the market to determine the price so that farmers are not prejudiced? You will get the price that is prevailing at the market on that day. Why are you not introducing a commodity exchange like in tobacco, you go and sell your tobacco and you get the price prevailing on that day just like we do at Mbare Musika; you sell your tomatoes from Mutoko and you get the price of the day. May you revisit the issue of pricing because it is affecting us farmers? I thank you.
HON. DR. MASUKA: First of all, before I answer the question, some clarification; the first clarification is that Government is not importing maize. Secondly, the pricing that we have for commodities, I think in the current macro-economic environment, it is actually the best in that in an inflationary environment, we use the cost plus model.
The cost today will be different tomorrow; we announce from a policy perspective two prices, the first is a pre-planting price which we announce weeks before the commencement of winter or the summer season. This is an indicative price for each of the major grains to be produced in that season to motivate farmers and to direct their efforts towards certain crops from a policy perspective.
Because of the inflationary environment, we then review the price during the marketing season taking into account the total cost of producing a hectare at the time of sale, which then takes into account the inflationary aspect and then we put a 15% return on investment. This, we think is the way to go in an inflationary environment.
Government announces what we call a floor price, this is not a price control, and it is merely the price that Government will purchase at GMB at. It does not preclude any other purchasing at twice, three times that price, so market forces can rule. When we announce the wheat price next, we will make this clearer because I think that there has been some confusion in this regard.
Government is determined to ensure that farmers find farming as a viable and profitable business and this is Government policy. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, the question preceding the heated question of Hon. Mliswa’s was on the land question in this country. The conversations that took place here really underscored the need for us to seriously apply our minds to that question. In pursuit of that, three years ago, I personally rose in this House and requested that the Hon. Minister of Agriculture brings to this House, a ministerial statement by way of a list or a schedule, province by province, of all those farms that his predecessor and himself has redistributed to date. I just asked for that detailed list so that we review it in this House in line with the President’s call that no one and no place must be left behind in terms of important national conversations. Let me plead with you Madam Speaker, to have a conversation with him because I know that desk has phoned him several times pursuing that list. This is where I have a problem with these so-called technocrats or super numeral ministers – they believe they are more special than all of us here. I need that ministerial statement. It is the people who want to see it. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Ndebele. The Hon. Minister has taken note of that.
HON. CHIMINA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and in his absence, I direct my question to the Leader of the House. As you are aware that most of the people in this country earn their living through the informal sector and considering the economic effects of COVID-19 and lockdown regulations, what measures do you have in place to protect the attachment of residents’ property by local authorities for failing to settle their bills? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. That question relates to a relationship between a local authority and residents, and Government at this juncture would defer interfering with that and allow the local authorities to deal with the residents since they have that particular mandate. It is not a subject that has come to Central Government for me to competently say that we will come up with a policy to specifically look at the issue of rates as a result of the effects of COVID.
I am aware that during the COVID era, there was a reprieve and we put a Statutory Instrument that would ensure that the generality of our population would not be subjected to demands for rates and we also put in place measures whereby some assistance was given. As to the specific question as to the rates that would have accrued, I think that is best addressed at that particular local authority level. I thank you.
HON. CHIMINA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I understand there is Local Government Circular No. 3 of 2010 which prohibits local authorities from attaching residents’ property. What are you going to do with the local authorities who are defying that circular?
HON. ZIYAMBI: This becomes very specific and that circular was issued by the Ministry of Local Government. I would advise the Hon. Member to put it in writing so that the Minister can come up with a specific answer that deals with that particular circular. I thank you.
HON. MURAI: Thank Mr. Speaker Sir. My question goes to the Leader of the House, Hon. Ziyambi. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development has suspended payments to contractors based on parallel rates. It has affected some SMEs, those with running contracts which use the money from the contract to pay their workers. Do you have any plan to exonerate those with running contracts from the suspension which was effected by the Ministry?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. It is not entirely correct that payments were suspended but what the Minister directed was - let us verify so that we get value for money. Those contractors that have genuine contracts that have been verified are being paid. I would urge the Hon. Member, if he has got specific SMEs that are not being paid but have genuine contracts; perhaps he can put that in writing and forward it to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development so that they can interrogate it as there is no blanket ban on payments.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 68.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
PROGRESS MADE TO PROMOTE VALUE ADDITION OF BLACK GRANITE
- HON. NYABOTE asked the Minister of Industry and Commerce to inform the House what progress has been made in promoting value addition of raw granite stone, considering the June 2019 Government policy pronouncement banning the export of raw granite stones.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): May I request to postpone the question to next week.
HON. MOKONE: On a point of order. I am realising that most of our questions are not being captured at the Journals office. If you check that Order Paper it refers to deferred questions. There are no new questions there. I actually put some questions about a month ago and they are not captured.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am advised that a follow up will be made and they will be put back.
TITLE DEEDS FOR RESIDENTS OF MABUTHWENI AND IMINYELA IN MPOPOMA-PELANDABA
- HON. C. MOYO asked the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities to inform the House when the residents of Mabuthweni and Iminyela in Mpopoma-Pelandaba would be issued with their title deeds?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. SIMBANEGAVI): As has already been indicated by the Leader of House before with regards to the issue of title deeds, there is an inter-ministerial committee that has been set up that includes the Minister of National Housing, Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Minister of Higher Education and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
With regards to the issue of Mabuthweni and Iminyela, what I can add to what the Leader of Government business has already indicated is, those suburbs are very old and as they wait for the process that has been explained for them to be issued with title deeds, is to go to council inspectors to ensure that their houses are inspected and are up to date because the issue of standard will also be looked at once the issuance of title deeds begins.
As an old suburb, what they need to do now is to make sure the issues of water reticulation and other required standards that are required by building inspectors are up to date so that when the inspections are done, their houses can be able to qualify for the issuance of title deeds. I thank you.
(v)HON. C. MOYO: Bulawayo City Council inspectors are saying they cannot issue title deeds if you do not have your own ablution facilities but there is no space to put their ablution facility since you said it is an old suburb. Secondly, these are pensioners and they do not have the money to construct those ablution facilities. How true is that and what is the way forward?
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: I can advise the Hon. Member to discuss with the residents of Iminyela that there is no hurry. They can take their time to find the funds to renovate and upgrade their houses as we wait for the technical processes that are happening within the inter-ministerial committee. I am hoping that by the time that the technical discussions are done, probably by then, the residents would have been able to find some funds to upgrade their houses.
(v)HON. C. MOYO: I also highlighted that there is no space since it is an old suburb. How are they going to put even one toilet because you realise that there are 30 families which are using one toilet because there is no space. How are they going to come up with that space because it is not there?
(v)HON. GANDAWA: Hon. Moyo is raising a very important question and I am not sure if the Hon. Minister had come with prepared answers or the answers that she is giving to Hon. Moyo are coming off the cuff. I would have expected the Minister to give specific answers to his specific questions which he put up as written questions. The Hon. Minister seems to be giving us general answers and we would want to benefit from this discussion. I thank you.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: I am not sure what the Hon. Member specifically wants me to respond to because the question that I had on the Order Paper was asking when title deeds were going to be issued to Mabuthweni and Iminyela. That was the question that I was responding to indicating to him that as the Leader of Government business indicated that there is no timeline for now. What they can do in the mean time as they wait for when Government is going to be ready to issue title deeds is what I was advising. They should upgrade their houses because those houses are in old suburbs. I was simply advising the Hon. Member to go and speak to Mabuthweni and Iminyela residents to upgrade their houses in the meantime as they wait for Government to start issuing the title deeds.
With regards to that, the Hon. Member was asking in terms of space, in most of the old suburbs, most of the houses use common offsite infrastructure and there is no need for them to start digging for septic tanks and other infrastructure. What they can do is to make sure that community offsite infrastructure with regards to sewer or water reticulation is upgraded. They can even start residential associations where they can come together and put together funds to ensure that their properties are upgraded. These are personal properties and it is up to each and every individual to ensure that their property is up to date.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I just want to remind the Minister on Hon. Gandawa’s point of order. This question is a written one. From what the Minister is saying, she is generalising. The Ministry was given time to prepare, that is what Hon. Gandawa said. The Minister must read the answer that was already prepared, not to ride on what the Leader of the House said in this House today. The Minister should come up with a policy; the real response to the question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Thank you Hon. Member. I wanted to also concur with that. The Minister responded very well at the beginning and the Minister of Justice clarified that there is a Committee working on that. So there are no other questions that arise. I think there was no need for the Minister to put something written because already, this thing is being taken up by the Inter-Ministerial Committee.
Hon. C. Moyo on virtual having raised a point of order
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think I am moving to Question Number 3 because this question was well answered by two Ministers.
(v)HON. C. MOYO: Hon. Speaker, this question has been there on the Order Paper and the Hon. Minister is not supposed to say the Hon. Minister said this today. She must give the answer…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think the issue of title deeds was dealt with by Hon. Minister Ziyambi. We believe that the question has been answered.
(v)HON. C. MOYO: It is my question for Mpopoma-Pelandaba, Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think this one has been answered. You can write another one if you feel it has not been properly answered.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order Number 68.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 34, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 35 has been disposed of.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
JUDICIARY LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 3: 2022]
Thirty-Fifty Order read: Second Reading: Judicial Laws Amendment Bill [H.B.3, 2022].
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. PARADZA) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Speaker. Allow me to present my Second Reading for the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill. This is a very short Bill which seeks to amend a number of our judicial laws. The Bill seeks to amend the following Acts:
- Constitutional Court Act.
- Supreme Court Act
- High Court Act
- Labour Court Act
- Administrative Court Act
- Magistrates Court Act
- Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act
As narrated in the Memorandum of this Bill, its purpose is twofold. It seeks to provide for virtual court sittings in both civil and criminal proceedings and to align various provisions of judicial laws to the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the advent of COVID-19 pandemic presented a challenge to the conduction of trials in our courts. It however presented an opportunity for our courts not only to come up with adaptation methods to COVID-19 but to synchronise conducting of trial and the new Integrated Electronic Case Management System. This gave birth to virtual courts. The Bill before this House seeks to provide for virtual court sittings in both civil and criminal proceedings provided the parties consent to have proceedings conducted virtually.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in addition, the Bill seeks to insert a new section to the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act [Chapter 9:07]. Presently, all criminal proceedings are conducted in person with certain exceptions such as those involving vulnerable witnesses. This has been found however to be wasteful of time and resources for certain criminal proceedings of a formal rather than substantive nature to be conducted in person. Accordingly, this amendment will provide for virtual court sittings in bail and remand other than initial remand proceedings. This is however subject to the availability of facilities and also provided that the prosecutor and the accused have the right, by means of the virtual procedure, to question a witness and to observe the reaction of that witness.
Mr. Speaker Sir, importantly, there was an order which was issued in the case of Legal Resources Foundation and Deaf Zimbabwe Trust vs Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs compelling the suspension of Section 193 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act. The reason being that in a case where the accused is deaf or mute, the rights accorded to them are rendered insignificant if the law does not provide for a Sign Language Interpreter. This, therefore, necessitated the amendment of Section 193 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act.
It is also necessary to amend Section 246 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, which describes persons with disabilities in a derogatory and offensive manner, which is contrary to the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill before this House seeks to repeal and replace Section 193 of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act and substituting it with a section that places an obligation upon the State, of ensuring the availability of a Sign Language Interpreter in a case where the accused person has hearing or speech impairment or both. Further, the Bill gives power to the court to release the accused person on bail or remove such person from remand where the State has failed to secure the services of a Sign Language Interpreter.
In addition, with regards to derogatory descriptions, the Bill removes and replaces words like idiocy, malady and mental disorder and adopts the wording of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
These amendments with regards to the provisions in the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act on persons with disabilities, once enacted will offer protection of the rights of accused persons with hearing or speech impairment or both, and also uphold the rights of persons with disabilities through the use of the correct terminology.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I therefore urge Hon. Members to support and pass this Bill. I so submit and move that the Bill be now read a second time. Thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 22 on today’s Order Paper.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE GENDER COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2021
THE MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS, COMMUNITY, SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES DEVELOPMENT (HON. S. NYONI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to give a report of the Zimbabwe Gender Commission;
That this House takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwe Gender Commission for the period 2021 presented to this House in terms of Section 323 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, which states that every Commission must submit to Parliament through the responsible Minister, an annual report describing fully its operations and activities.
The Zimbabwe Gender Commission is one of the independent commissions established in terms of Section 245 of the Constitution and operationalised through the Zimbabwe Gender Commission Act, Chapter 10, Section 31.
The Commission discharges its mandate in the spirit of the objectives provided for in Section 233 of the Constitution, which are:
To support and entrench human rights and democracy;
To protect the sovereignty and interests of the people;
To promote constitutionalism;
To promote transparency and accountability in public institutions;
To ensure observance of democratic values and principles by the State, all institutions and agencies of Government and all Government controlled entities; and
To ensure that injustices are remedied.
The Mandate of the Zimbabwe Gender Commission
The Commission has an overall obligation to promote, protect and advance gender equality and equity in all spheres and ensure the enjoyment of fundamental rights as enshrined in various instruments the State has subscribed to. Section 246 of the Constitution specifically mandates the Commission to do the following:
- To monitor issues concerning gender equality and to ensure gender equality as provided for in the Constitution.
- To investigate possible violation of rights relating to gender equality.
- Receive and consider complaints from the public and to take such action in regard to the complaints as it considers appropriate.
- Conduct research into issues related to gender and social injustice and to recommend changes to laws and practices the lead to discrimination based on gender.
- Advise public and private institutions on steps to be taken to ensure gender equality.
- Recommend affirmative action programmes to achieve gender equality.
- Recommend prosecution for criminal violations of right related to gender.
- Secure appropriate redress where rights relating to gender have been violated.
- Do everything necessary to promote gender equality.
In terms of Section 323 of the Constitution, every Commission must submit to Parliament, through the responsible Minister an annual report describing its operations and activities. On that note, the Commission has fulfilled its statutory obligation of submitting reports covering previous years since 2016. Meanwhile, it has finalised its 2021 annual report which is now ready for submission to Parliament for its consideration.
Major Milestones of the 2021 Annual Report
The Commission made commendable progress in carrying out activities as per agreed 2021 annual work plan that contributed towards fulfilling its mandate. Progress made was despite the harsh operational environment compounded by the unprecedented nature of COVID-19, especially its disruption on implementation of activities during the beginning or end of the year.
Despite constrictive operating environment the period under review witnessed several milestones in the following thematic focus areas:
Investigations
Investigation of possible violation of rights relating to gender equality is one of the major mandates of the Commission in accordance with Section 246 (b) and (c). Furthermore, this role is buttressed by the Zimbabwe Gender Commission Act which allows the Commission to initiate public enquiries on possible gender violations. During the period under review, the Commission managed to investigate several cases including the following:
- Received 66 cases on violation of rights relating to gender with the majority cases being of sexual and gender based violence accounting to 42. Child marriages and property disputes complaints were amongst the other cases that were received by the Commission.
- The Commission launched and gazetted a National Enquiry on Sexual Exploitation and Abuse of Young Girls and child marriages in the apostolic sects triggered by the tragic death of a 14-year old girl Anna Machaya who died giving birth at a shrine in Marange. Preliminary investigations were carried out in Manicaland Province covering Marange area which showed high prevalence of child marriages and sexual exploitation of young girls among the Marange apostolic sect.
- The Commission offered legal advice through its tall free number and assisted walk-in clients who visited the exhibition stand at the ZITF and the Harare Agricultural Show.
- Engaged the advisory work for legal reform through partnering likeminded organisations and lobbying for the enactment of the Gender Equality Act and Sexual Harassments Act.
Monitoring
In line with its mandate to monitor issues concerning gender equality with a view to ensure compliance with gender equality provisions in the Constitution and other regional and international normative frameworks, the Commission managed to do the following:
- Finalise the Monitoring and Evaluation Framework that will be used as a benchmark to assess gender equality trends in the country and guide the Commission on effective discharge of its oversight role.
- Submission of the Universal Periodic Review parallel report to the Human Rights Council on 15th July 2021. The UPR provides a mechanism for accountability on actions being taken by member States to promote human rights including gender rights and empowerment of women.
- The Commission launched the training and mentorship programme dubbed the Women Rise in Politics, a joint initiative between the Commission and UN Women aimed at building capacity of women political aspirants through building their confidence, equipping them with requisite skills, information and knowledge essential for participation in politics.
- Roll out of the Women Rise in Politics in 12 electoral districts namely Harare, Bulawayo, Bindura, Chinhoyi, Gwanda, Gutu, Hwange, Marondera, Mutare, Kwekwe, Plumtree and Zvishavane with 237 women successful capacitated with political skills and knowledge.
- Issue advisory notes to Government ministries on non-compliance with constitutional gender equality principles in appointment of boards of State enterprises.
- Convene stakeholder consultation on Local Government Women’s Quota.
Convene 2021 National Gender Forum (NGF) on 10th December in Gweru under the title “Action Towards the Eradication of Harmful Practices which breeds Child Marriages and Sexual Exploitation and Abuse of Young Girls”. Precursor to the forum were District Community Dialogues held in eight provinces.
Research and Knowledge Management on Gender
The following activities were conducted around research and knowledge management on gender:
- Production of the Monitoring and Evaluation Framework and its dissemination to key stakeholders.
- Develop and launch of the national strategy on sexual harassment and ending GBV in the world of work working in partnership with the tripartite forum with support from the International Labour Organization.
- Conduct research on access to SRHR and SGBV services for homeless women and girls which identified push factors that push women and girls to live on the streets.
Public Education and Information
In order to increase awareness on gender issues, strengthen public understanding on the role of the Commission as well as improve its visibility, the following activities were pursued that include:
- Exhibitions at the Zimbabwe International Trade Fair in Bulawayo and the Zimbabwe Agricultural Show in Harare.
- Media appearance in print electronic media with several press statements issued notably on Child Marriages, International Women’s Day and other commemorative events and shared via social media platforms to raise awareness on pertinent gender issues.
- Awareness programmes on sexual harassment conducted targeting both public and private institutions.
- Conducted gender sensitization and capacity building training to POLAD Actors from 4 to 5 June at Carribea Bay Resort Hotel, Kariba.
- Conducted gender training of ZGC secretariat and team building from 16 to 23 May at Manna Resort, Harare aimed at improving organizational efficiency in service delivery.
Finance, Human Resources and Administration
The report on governance and administration issues which include among others; human resources, budget performance, expenditure, employment costs, acquisition of fixed assets and submission of statutory returns to Treasury and the Auditor General’s Office in terms of the Public Finance Management Act and Statutory Instrument No. 1 of 2000.
Key Challenges
Some of the key challenges that were faced during the year include:
- COVID-A restrictions delayed execution of most activities and some of the activities had to be shelved.
- Inadequate tools of trade such as laptops to enable officers to effectively work from home amidst the upsurge of COVID-19 cases.
- Over reliance on one cooperating partner for most of the planned activities.
- Limited capacity especially among new staff members on conducting investigations and on gender and human rights.
- Inconsistent disbursements from Treasury negatively affected planned activities and procurement of requested resources.
- Absence of a Commissioner with legal background which affects the work of the legal investigations section.
- Continuous increase in office space rentals, making the need for own premises a priority.
- Inadequate tools of trade such as desktops, laptops, due to insufficient budget.
Recommendations
Informed by our work during the period under reporting, ZGC recommends the Parliament of Zimbabwe to do the following:
- Expedite the re-alignment of laws in line with the Constitutional values on gender equality.
- Facilitate enactment of Gender Equality Act to make constitutional provisions justiciable.
- Ensure the alignment of the Electoral Act in line with gender balance as provided for on section 17 and the gender equality clause, section 56 (2) of the Constitution.
- Consider the adoption of full proportional representation as a sole electoral system shifting from the current hybrid system with First-Past-The Post.
-Prioritise the adoption of recommendations emanating from Chapter 12 Commissions towards meeting their shared objectives of ensuring constitutionalism, among others.
- Adopt strategies for the regulation of activities of faith-based organisations to eradicate child marriages and sexual exploitation and abuse of women amongst other harmful cultural and religious practices.
- Urgently fill the two vacant posts of two men, one with a legal background within the Commission. Legal work particularly, has lagged because of the vacancies.
Lastly, prioritise increased budget allocation for Commission’s programmes, procurement of office buildings and decentralisation in line with the devolution thrust. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank you and table to Parliament the 2021 Gender Commission Report. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 22nd September, 2022.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. TEKESHE, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 20th September, 2022
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Order please! Hon. Members, just a gentle reminder that Hon. Members must be in the House before the Speaker’s procession. Hon. Chief Whips should take note of this to ensure that that happens.
PETITIONS FROM THE INSTITUTE FOR YOUNG WOMEN’S DEVELOPMENT AND STATE UNIVERSITIES EMPLOYEES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following announcement. I have to inform the House that on 6 September, 2022, Parliament received the following admissible petitions: The first one is a petition from the Institute for Young Women’s Development Housed at No. 399, Cleverhill, Bindura beseeching Parliament to exercise its legislative and oversight roles by ensuring that the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) and the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, in consultation with citizens and stakeholders, effect a downward revision of the fees published in the Gazette for nominations and access to the Voters’ Roll and electoral maps. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Secondly, a petition from State Universities Employees represented by Isaac Gwizangwe of Bindura University of Science Education, requesting the Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development to ensure that a State Universities Employees Negotiating Forum is established to facilitate dialogue between the employees and the University authorities. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
HON. SPEAKER’S RULING.
RECOMMITTAL OF PRIVATE VOLUTARY ORGANISATION BILL [H. B. 10, 2021]
THE HON. SPAKER: I have a short ruling here which I promised. Ruling on the Recommittal of the Private Voluntary Organisation Bill [H. B. 10, 2021]-. On Tuesday 26 July, 2022, the second reading of the Private Voluntary Organisation Bill [H. B. 10, 2021] was done. Standing Order No. 147 provides that “Not more than one stage of a Bill must be taken at the same sitting without leave of the House”. The Hon Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare therefore sought leave of the House to have the Committee Stage forthwith, and this was not objected to.
The House resolved itself into a Committee and the Bill was put clause by clause. On Clause 6 of the Bill, Hon.Mushoriwa on virtual platform informed the Chair that he was having a technical problem. He wanted to know which Bill was being debated. The Chair advised him to come to the House but he did not oblige. Hon. Members are availed fuel to enable them to attend sittings or drive to the nearest point where internet connectivity is not a challenge. Hon. Mushoriwa raised a point of order wherein he stated that he was continuing to have internet challenges. However, he was unable to conclude what he was saying.Subsequently, all other clauses were dealt with until concluded and no one raised an objection about the conduct of business on the Bill. The Bill was reported with amendments at the close of the Committee Stage and referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
On Wednesday, 27 July 2022, Hon.Mushoriwa raised a point of privilege in the House alleging that Hon. Members who had been on the virtual platform the previous day had been denied permission to debate on the Bill by the Chairperson at the instruction of the Leader of the House. Facts of the matter are that when the Bill was put to the House clause by clause, none of the Hon. Members objected. The Bill was considered at Committee Stage and all clauses were adopted. It was only the following day that Hon. Mushoriwa wanted re-committal of the Bill claiming that rights of Hon. Members to debate had been violated. He further alleges the network had been very unstable resulting in those on virtual platform being prejudiced. However, having considered the matter, I rule as follows:
- No procedure flaws were brought up to my attention to warrant the re-committal of the Bill.
- On fluctuating network, it was the duty of the Hon. Member to ensure that he joined the sitting at a place that had stable internet connectivity.
I must advise that this ruling applies to the Notice of Motion made by Hon. Gonese on Wednesday, 11 August 2022 seeking to have the re-committal of the Private Voluntary Organisations Bill Amendment. Therefore, the Notice of Motion by Hon. Gonese is deemed inadmissible and cannot be entertained.
Hon. Gonese having stood up to seek clarification on the ruling.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, read the Hansard. Can you read the Hansardplease? Can you take your seat? You cannot debate my ruling.
*HON. CHIBAYA: I rise on a matter of national importance. We are heading towards elections in 2023 and there is a lot of political violence throughout the country. As the august House, we need to make sure we go to the polls in peace and preserve our image as a peaceful nation. I am saying this because when we were moving around the country, in Hwedza, the President of the opposition party (CCC), Chamisa was blocked. His car was attacked in Mutare. In Uzumba-Maramba-Pfungwe, the supporters of our political party were attacked by supporters of ZANU PF. There is no Member of Parliament who likes violence and I believe that you also do not like violence. The issue is that we have the Minister of Home Affairs, what is the Minister promising the nation regarding restoring peace and security during elections so that they will be peaceful?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chibaya. I repeat that any member of a political party who feels that their right has been violated can approach the courts. The second – [HON. HWENDE: Inaudible interjection.] – Order, handisati ndapedza my ruling. Can you sit down – [HON. HWENDE: Hon. Speaker, I listen to you Hon. Speaker but I will not listen to those who are saying that we are not attending a rally. I do not want to be threatened…] – Can you sit down. Hon. Member. The Standing Rules say, if you do not obey the Chair’s order, you are in violation. If you have got an issue or someone has insulted you, you simply stand up and raise a point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – He must raise a point of order. [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Are you listening Hon. Hwende? You are not listening. I said if there is an issue, any Member rises on a point of order, that is what your Standing Rules say
Hon. Hwende having mumbled
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, do not argue with me, sit down!
Hon. T. Mliswa having wanted to raise a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Honourable, I am still addressing Hon. Chibaya. Hon. Chibaya, if there is an issue against yourself from an Hon. Member, you rise and ask for a point of order. You do not address that Hon. Member who is alleged to be offending you. This is how the Standing Orders run, thank you.
The second aspect I was going to say is that, through the Committee on Justice and Parliamentary Affairs, they are looking at the Electoral Law in terms of the reforms. I am sure some of these issues can be raised during that debate.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. You were correct to say that if any Member is aggrieved, they must stand on a point of order. Just as you were addressing that, somebody said gara pasi. To me, the issue is that you do hear somebody say gara pasi but you do not reprimand them. So, if someone says gara pasi and this heckling happens, someone telling you to keep quiet. Some of us respect you; we have been quiet, we did not make noise but if they do not respect your Chair…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I repeat, when that gara pasi was said, the Hon. Member should have raised a point of order again – [HON. HWENDE: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Hwende, I did not recognise you. [HON. HWENDE: But you need to be fair.] – I have not recognised you! [HON. HWENDE: But this is not fair.] - Can you switch off your mic? Thank you. - [HON. HWENDE: He is insulting me again.] – What did he say? – [HON. HWENDE: He said kushata.] – Hon. Members, do not be petty please - [Laughter.] –
HON. CHIMINA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of national interest is in regards with the attachment of residents’ property by local authorities. I once raised it as a question and the Minister of Local Government stated that there is Circular 3: 2010, which prohibits local authorities from attaching residents’ property but as I am speaking right now, residents’ property is being attached by local authorities around the country.
So, my request is for the Minister of Local Government to come up with a Ministerial Statement regarding the attachment of residents’ property. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Since the matter was raised and you made your research as a follow-up, why do you not raise it tomorrow and advise the Hon. Minister that what he said last time is not what is happening on the ground? – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Zwizwai, please be collected? Order! Hon. Member, tomorrow, can you approach your Chief Whip so that your name is put among the first to ask your question.
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. As you are aware, we received through our e-mails, as Members of Parliament, the 2021 audit statements by the Auditor-General covering two accounts, the appropriation accounts of Government Ministries and local authorities, the appropriation accounts of local authorities then followed subsequently, as you are aware Hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, I am gravely concerned that having looked at the appropriation accounts for 2021, those accounts must be prepared according to the International Public Sector Accounting Standards (IPSAS). They must also be prepared according to the International Standards of Supreme Audit Institutions (ISSA). If you go to the accounts we received Mr. Speaker Sir, you will see that there is no appropriation account that is commended on by the Auditor in respect of about six key Ministries. These include-
Vote 5, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development;
Vote 8, the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement;
Vote 14, the Ministry of Health and Child Care;
Vote 16, the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education;
Vote 17, the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development;
Vote 18, Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; and
Vote 26, the Public Service Commission.
The appropriation accounts are the accounts that tell us how much was spent and received. Overally Mr. Speaker Sir, the audit report does not have an overall appropriation of how much was used in 2021. I ask Mr. Speaker Sir, that you direct the Minister of Finance to come and give an explanation as to why there are no appropriation accounts for those particular votes and why there is no overall appropriation account audit. I also ask Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee be directed to summon the Auditor-General so that she can explain before the Committee why the 2021 audit report which has been put in our emails does not meet those standards? This is so important given the high levels of corruption in our country at the present moment. I thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I would rather go by your last recommendation, that is, the Public Accounts Committee must summon the Auditor-General to find out why those Votes have not been accounted for. Is Hon. Dube around?
(v)HON. B. DUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am available on virtual and I take note of the directive.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. That should be done within two weeks.
HON. T. MOYO: Hon. Speaker Sir, I rise on an issue of national importance. The issue concerns the provisions of the Education Amendment Act of 2020. One of the major provisions that is violated concerns the issue of exclusion of students from school.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we have noticed and it is quite sad that the majority of students in our schools are being turned away for non-payment of school fees. I raised this issue with the Hon. Minister and she promised to take action but there is nothing happening on the ground in terms of remediation. Schools just willy-nilly turn away students, violating their fundamental rights to education, according to Section 75 of the Constitution. As Parliament, we need to demand enforcement in terms of those schools that are failing or defying the provisions of the Constitution.
It is my clarion call Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should raise a red flag on those schools that are turning away students. It is sad that some of the students that are being turned away are on social safety nets. I am talking of BEAM students whose fees are supposed to be paid by the Government are being turned away. It is very bad and I think something has to be done. We have made some attempts to raise this issue during Question Time but the problem still persists. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am not sure whether it was last year or the beginning of this year that I referred to a High Court judgement by the Retired Justice Mafios Cheda, which clearly said that it was unlawful for the headmasters of schools to chase away students for non-payment of fees. In his judgement, he indicated that the responsibility lies with the parents. So, tomorrow, ask the Hon. Minister why the system is in contempt of the High Court ruling. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. My point of national interest arises from the current media reports on this esteemed institution in terms of the corrupt activities which are said to be undertaken. Mr. Speaker Sir, you are respected …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say activities? Can you be more explicit?
HON. T. MLISWA: One of the activities would be the Hon. Wadyajena issue. The second one is the recent one of the laptops. So, I would want to bring these two for now, which have been in the media to say that we are finding it difficult to walk around the streets and not be asked and attacked that Mliswa you talk too much but you are corrupt yourself. They do not understand the operation of Parliament that the Speaker is the head, there are Members of Parliament and there is Administration. They relate everything to the Speaker and Members of Parliament, yet Administration is not known because they never debate in Parliament. The common man views Parliament as the Speaker and Members of Parliament and not Administration because they do not debate. If you have a TV there, it is you and us here, so the Administration of Parliament leaves a lot to be desired.
The recent allegations of laptops being bought over US$9.000 bring one thing in question. From all the procurements which have been done, how much has been the inflated price? It is pretty clear there was no argument from the statement of the Clerk in terms of inflated price. We need to undertake a forensic audit on the procurement of all what we have done since 2013 when I joined Parliament to date. Clearly, it is an issue which we trust Administration but they have been exposed. As a result, our role is to ensure that taxpayers’ money is for value. In fact, what they call it is value for money even in terms of the Procurement Act, you must have a budget for what you are buying. For your Procurement Act, you must have a procurement plan. So the budget for US$9 000 - where did it come from; we passed the budget? Did they have a procurement plan? The SPOCS is chaired by the Attorney General who must sign minutes of all this. Was this done? Fortunately and we thank you, you have taught us to read and understand and you can see I am a bit familiar with PRAZ and I am sure you are impressed that one of your own Members remembers. So what you have taught us, we see it being violated, yet we pass the laws here.
So we have to be prudent in whatever we do because any small thing that happens, this institution is reduced to nothing but a corrupt institution. I therefore with your indulgence, suggest that a forensic audit for all procurements be done from 2013. I say so and I was in Parliament because I do not want to be labeled as one person who saw this happening and never did anything about it. I cannot talk about the time I was not here. I have to cover my years to date on all the procurements done. I know that they will be appearing before the Public Accounts Committee but that forensic audit is quite critical so that your reputation and our reputation remain intact. After Parliament, we are people. We must have a credible social standing.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now debating Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: I therefore indulge you Mr. Speaker Sir for that issue to be cleared and that administration - who are seen wanting must be able to respond to those issues and also not pick what they can pick on PRAZ and leave out certain things. Was there a budget of 9 000 passed by this House in terms of Parliament budget? If so, we would like to know. If it was not passed, why would they even entertain anything over what has been budgeted? I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for that Hon. Mliswa. You must be very careful also with your words. The Audit Act, sections 9 to 12 speak about how audits should be done. A forensic audit is a particular audit on a particular issue. It cannot be a forensic audit over a period of x number of years.
In this particular incident, the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee has written to say that the responsible officials must appear before the Public Accounts Committee. That process will proceed, and only after the interrogation of the Public Accounts Committee will they decide whether there will be need for a forensic audit or not. Also, it has to be taken into account what the Auditor General has said about the accounts of the Committee since 2013. If there are issues that were raised and they were not attended to, those can be part of the interrogation by the Public Accounts Committee. So in terms of procedure, we will proceed that way.
Also, sometimes do not be converts of social media – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I said sometimes, listen to my English. Hon. Hwende wanyanya. Can you be more collected? I am still speaking to you. I have described the process and that will prevail accordingly.
HON. TOGAREPI: On a point of order. I am sorry to use this word Mr. Speaker Sir but we are now having rogue Members of Parliament. We cannot have people insulting the Hon. Speaker because someone cannot say the Speaker’s hand was caught in the cookie jar. What is that? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Mliswa, please take a seat. Hon. Hwende, did you say ndirimomo?
HON. HWENDE: This man is now lying. Hon. Speaker, he is lying because your name was never mentioned…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! You cannot say a Member is lying. Withdraw that one. You simply say his statement is incorrect.
HON. HWENDE: But he called me rogue.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I will not come to that. So withdraw the lies, withdraw.
HON. HWENDE: Withdraw what?
THE HON. SPEAKER: To say he is a liar – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. HWENDE: I withdraw.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.
HON. HWENDE: Can he withdraw rogue.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, the word rogue is unparliamentary, so you need to withdraw that one.
HON. TOGAREPI: I withdraw.
HON. ZWIZWAI: Mwana wake akaponda munhu saka akuita se anopenga. Munoziva kuti mwana wake akaponda munhu now he has gone cockeye.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, that is a serious allegation. Can you withdraw that statement?
HON. ZWIZWAI: It is in the courts Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: So withdraw the statement! If it is the court, withdraw the statement.
HON. ZWIZWAI: I withdraw.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker, very quickly on this issue. As you are aware, in terms of section 114 of the Constitution, Parliament is at the forefront of holding other people to account. We have brought so many bodies before this august House over oversight; GMB. ZESA, ZINARA, you name this, you name that. So if there is now a speck in our eyes Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is right that we should investigate ourselves internally.
So I support the call by Hon. Mliswa that let us have an external forensic audit of this transaction. I thank you very much. We need to maintain our moral high ground Mr. Speaker. So let us have an external enquiry over the issue of laptops. Thank you very much.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is not a point of clarification. You are disabusing my ruling. As a learned lawyer, you are disabusing my ruling. A committee is an institution of this Parliament, so allow it to do its job. Only after there is that conversation, it will then be up to the Committee to come up with recommendations. I thank you.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to add my voice on this important issue. I know that there is separation of powers between the Judiciary, Parliament and Executive and that there must not be interference. I am however concerned that accused persons are being denied bail and this has been happening for a long time. Some have even spent more than one year in remand prison. Up to now, these prisoners have not been granted bail so that they are tried while coming from home.
I am not saying this on a partisan basis but what I want to say is that even in this House, we have some Hon. Members of Parliament who have spend 100 days in remand prison and nothing is being done. I do not want to give this as an example but I am standing on behalf of all prisoners. We are the legislators and if we look at Sections 50, 70 and 49, they clearly state the rights of prisoners and we are the legislators. Hon. Speaker, why are we not following the Constitution as legislators so that the prisoners can be treated fairly? It is good for Zimbabwe to be known as a law abiding country so that the rights of our prisoners are respected. I thank you – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Ko nyaya yemalaptop?] –
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you spoke very well that there is separation of powers between Parliament, Judiciary and Executive. There is a proper procedure on how to handle those issues. Lawyers have a right to represent their clients in court and raise the issue there or even at the Constitutional Court in terms of the sections of the Constitution you have quoted, the rights of the arrested persons. You can go and complain to the High Court or the Constitutional Court.
It is the responsibility of the lawyers handling the cases that they proceed to do so in terms of that procedure. As Parliament, we cannot interfere with the judicial processes. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We are dealing with points of privilege, there are no debates, and you made your statement Hon. T. Mliswa. I have given guidance.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, but others have debated.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have given guidance. If you ask Hon. Biti to talk about the separation of powers doctrine, I have to go to case law and so on iyiiii. Aiwa atsanangura zvakanaka Hon. Munengami.
HON.T. MLISWA: For the Executive, Hon. Speaker, we have an oversight that we do as Parliament but what of the Judiciary? What do we do if there is something that is not well in the Judiciary as Parliament? The issue of doctrine is being abused. The Judiciary is abusing their powers through catch and release. If Parliament has powers to task the Executive, why can it not have power to task the Judiciary?
THE HON. SPEAKER: There are procedures to be followed Hon. T. Mliswa. I have explained already. Another way is to write to the Judicial Services Commission as an offended person, and not as Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. T. Mliswa, I have told you the procedure – [AN HON. MEMBER: But kana yaWadyajena yakaitwa wani?] – It is not only the doctrine of separation of powers. You have got the problem of subjudice - [AN HON. MEMBER: Ko Wadyajena akanyorerwa tsamba nesame Parliament wani, and Ministers come here.] - Hon. Member, I do not want to debate my guidance. If you want to seek...
HON. HAMAUSWA: Parliament is becoming ineffective; we do not have power – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you please take your seat. If...
HON. HAMAUSWA: No, Hon. Speaker, this has affected Hon. Sikhala; tomorrow it will affect me and then it will affect you as well. This will affect you and we will come to defend you as Parliament.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, can you please take your seat. Order, Hon. Member, order, when I said ibva pano, I was smiling – [Laughter.] – but if I was wearing a serious face, then that is something different, in this case I was smiling.
The Hon. Speaker asked the Government Chief Whip to approach the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is coming out, please your statements of privilege on matters of national interest, can you make sure that they are brief because they should be one minute, otherwise we end up taking a lot of time from the business of the House.
Order, order, Members on my left, order! Hon. Biti, you are a veteran.
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE SENATE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received recommendations from the Senate on amendments to Clause 2 and 3 of the Finance Bill [H. B. 9A, 2022] in terms of Paragraph 7 of the Fifth schedule of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. If the Hon. Minister is seeking the leave of the House, you have to put.....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, just to refresh your memory, the Standing Orders were suspended to deal with the Finance Bill and the Appropriation Bill – [HON. MEMBERS: Zvakapera kudhara.] – Zvakapera when we are still doing it now...
HON. GONESE: No, no Mr. Speaker....
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, no, no, I will not allow that.
HON. GONESE: There is a second point of order which I want to raise before we go into committee stage for us to be appraised of the substance of the recommendations because ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: You will go into the Committee and you will hear that. Thank you.
HON. BITI: I believe Mr. Speaker, you indicated to us that you have received recommendations from the Senate, I think it was only proper for the Hon. Speaker to indicate the recommendations. If we want to raise an objection, we are also entitled to do so.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am advised the amendments were circulated via Members e-mails.
Hon. Biti having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are abusing my office now.
HON. BITI: On a point of order, the Finance Bill is a money Bill. It originates in the lower House, once it is passed by the lower House, Senate has no power ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order my learned friend, can you sit down please. You know the Constitution says if that amendment is from the Senate and is not accepted by the National Assembly, the position of the National Assembly prevails ...
HON. BITI: On a point of order, on ordinary Bills, yes, but on money Bills, they have no power of bringing it back.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you refresh me.
HON. BITI: Fifth Schedule.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Alright, thank you. Hon. Biti, you are over inspired today.
HON. BITI: Thank you Sir. God bless you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will read the fifth schedule, Section 7, it says “the Senate does not have power to amend a Money Bill but may recommend that the National Assembly make amendments” – [HON. BITI: Yes] – just a minute, that is why I am saying you are over inspired today. When I read what I read, I said I have received recommendations in line with the Constitution.
HON. BITI: So it is debated by the plenary so we do not have to defend it here because that is a recommendation, but when it is an amendment, we go to Committee.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes Hon. Biti, after the Committee it will still come to the whole House.
HON. BITI: Here we debate the recommendation. If we agree with the recommendation then we go into Committee where the amendment is made. So the recommendation, we debate in plenary, toramba.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The House will be in Committee, after that it will go to the Parliamentary Legal Committee for debate by the whole House. Agreed? – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – Ah! Tatenda. In addition to the Schedule you raised that must also be read in terms of Standing Order Number 190.
Motion put and agreed to.
RECOMMITAL STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
House in Committee.
On Clause 2 Section 14:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): When the supplementary budget was taken to the Senate, the Hon Members noted that the assessment years should look at the time and duration when the supplementary budget was going to be effective and operational, that is from 1st August 2022 to 31st December 2022. Senate then recommended that we need to take Clauses 2 and 3 to the National Assembly for further interrogation and this is why we brought the notice of amendments. The recommendations for amendments are for Sections 2 and 3 but you will notice that these two sections are the same except that Section 2 is in words and Section 3 is in figures. The amendment seeks to adjust the tax bands in line with the supplementary budget proposals. We are not going to change anything as was proposed by the National Assembly.
The first tax band as was proposed was $900 000 which was going to be tax free but if we leave it like that, it will show that the $900 000 is starting from 1st January 2022 to 31st December 2022. This will effectively mean that all the people are not going to pay tax. So, the amendment now seeks to have two taxable years, one with seven months and the other year starting from 1st August for five months. So, what we are saying is that the level of taxable income is then adjusted to accommodate the five months. In this case, the first bracket for the five months assessment year will then read as income up to $375 000 and the rest of the bands are going to be adjusted accordingly as provided for in the notice of amendments. I so submit Hon. Chairperson.
HON. BITI: The esteemed Minister is being economic with the truth. We spent hours here quarreling on Sections 2 and 3 of the Finance Bill. We spent hours arguing until the Minister agreed as a compromise to let the tax free threshold go to $900 000. Remember, we actually wanted $1.2million as Members and the compromise was $900 000. The Minister then came up with a formulation which is this formulation which he is bringing purportedly from the Senate. He came with it and we argued that he should record the $900 000 but make it clear that it starts from the first of August. You will recall if you were here Madam Chairperson, Hon. Raidza and other Hon Members went to the Minister’s drafts people who were there and we agreed we would not have a problem. From the first January to the 31st July 2022, the old rates would apply and from the 1st August to 31st December, the new rate of $900 000 would apply. What the Minister has done is to go back to that position which we rejected and then try to pretend that it is the Senate speaking. It is not the Senate speaking, it is him speaking. So, we reject this amendment because it is a revision of the agreed position of $900 000 tax free threshold. If you look closely at Clause 4, he has now actually brought it down to $750 000. So he is now revising the tax free threshold from $900 000 which we agreed to and passed to $750 000. So, we must reject this and say to the Senate, thank you but no thank you. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Firstly, there is no logic even if people had to be paid from the 1st of January 2022, they have suffered from inflation and it is actually a way of recovery. So, there is no way that we can allow this to happen. Senate must understand that people have been suffering due to inflation and there has not been any provision to deal with inflation. When we did this, we were looking at the suffering of the people. Some people are still owing money because our Zimbabwe dollar has no value. Disposable income nadha and because of that, we cannot sit here and bring it down again. The Upper House is being insensitive in terms of the plight of the people. We debated this openly; everybody knew what we were saying. They listened, they were happy with it and now they want us as the National Assembly to reduce from $900 000 to $750 000. Already, there are many problems that they are facing. They want this House to be blamed. Unfortunately, there is no room for amending and if there is anything, we must actually factor in inflation, to be honest with you, because already with this time that we are wasting inflation is hitting. So, as I am speaking and the way inflation is going, we should be actually amending the figure to a million. So, the only recommendation which we would entertain is upward and not downward. So to me, I therefore, recommend that due to time wasting and Senate again wasting time, may it go up to a million from ZWL900 000.00; to factor in inflation and time. So I now recommend that it goes up to a million as a result of time because these Bills take time. While they are going to the Senate and you need the President to sign; inflation does not do that; inflation will continue escalating. So, I recommend that it be reviewed upward to a million, if we spend another month then it is reviewed upward again to ZWL1.1 million considering the issue of inflation so that parents can afford to pay school fees. We risk being beaten up by people after budgeting ZWL900 000.00 and now coming back to ZWL750 000 – we cannot accept that.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. This is a sad development for the entire life of me in this Parliament, it has never happened that a Bill is actually rejected and returned to the National Assembly. I have been in this House since 2000 and I really wonder what then happened between the time we debated and agreed. I think we spent the whole day in terms of this particular clause. You will recall, if we were to refer to the Hansard, I had proposed ZWL1.2 million on the realisation that with my Trade Union background, negotiations and dialogue; you need to peg a higher level figure. Now here we are, it is not even half of what we expected.
I think, genuinely speaker Madam Chairperson, no harm will be done in terms of the Hon. Minister but in fact, to get credibility and the confidence that has been created in the public and the entire working class of the country, we need to stick to the agreed ZWL900 000.00 and we will lose nothing. I think that the higher expectations out there and with inflation rising day in, day out, I propose that we stick to ZWL900 000.00. I also think that we can persuade Senate to agree to the ZWL900 000.00 with the modalities – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – With what we debated, we had the full information that we packaged to the Hon. Minister.
He had enough arguments to convince the Senate to agree to the ZWL900 000.00 threshold. I think that it would be an embarrassment and drawback; our effort, time and everything. Time is of essence Madam Chairperson and because of the holdup that the Senate has actually rejected this Bill, everybody is expecting tatomirira and hakuna chinhu. We know that Government is in dire need of resources; every department and institution, awaits the approval of this budget. I think we need to call the Senate to say, we still stick to the ZWL900 000.00. Takatonyara because inini ndakasimuka ndikati ZWL1.2 million. The Hon. Minister was here and I think that is the reason why he is not even here because we deliberated and agreed. What has happened behind the scenes? I thank you.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON (HON. MAVETERA): Hon. Nduna, may you please go to the other side of the House? Hon. Nduna, may you please go to the other side of the House where you belong?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Madam Speaker Ma’am – [HON. T. MLISWA: She is not Madam Speaker, she is Madam Chair!] – Madam Chair, I just want to deal with the issues and leave out tissues. My question is: what is the prejudice that might befall the nation if we leave it in the manner that we debated and proposed as the National Assembly? Assuming it is a life and death issue, at law there is what is called, retrospective application of the law. There is only one issue that cannot be applied in retrospect and that is the Death Sentence.
Here is an opportunity, in my view, to continue to apply a law in retrospect, assuming there is a technical hitch. Otherwise, it is my thinking, on a third point, that the clause that said this starts in August, as a footnote/proposal that was made in this House, should be succinct and good enough to let this budget go forward in that form. My fear is that the people who are opposed to this budget may take advantage of your good proposals in that in Clause 4, you will find that somehow your office may have tweaked some figures to read ZWL750 000 as opposed to ZWL900 000.00. We do not want people taking advantage of that anomaly of the change in figures.
So, it is my fervent view, hope and clarion call that we remain static as the way we burnt the midnight candles. I remember on the day, we even went for dinner and came back. We went again but there was no tea, and came back. So it is my thinking that there is no none monetary incentive that we proposed to align it to the Supplementary Budget of the band of ZWL900 000.00. So it is my thinking that what we debated and proposed hatisiyeyi zvakadaro because it is not a death sentence. How do I propose that if you have a deficit, you cover it?
In 2005, there was debate from Delta Corporation in terms of issuance of beer levy to the effect that they proposed that ZWL0.34cents be allocated to local authorities per litre of opaque beer. If you can ring fence those monies for the past 10 years, it is my thinking that you can get out of the quagmire, assuming it is dire and then use that to plug the revenue deficit that you may have. My thinking, let us continue in the manner that we proposed so that we are seen according to Section 119, to be making laws for the good order and governance of the people of Zimbabwe and indeed Cde. Lameck Nyamarango, Patricia Nyamadzawo, and Sarah Chikukwa of Chegutu West Constituency and Mr. Green and Tapfuma Wunganayi. So it is my thinking that we will definitely not lose anything if we leave Clauses 2, 3 and indeed 4 to read ZWL900 000.00 in the manner that it is. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Chair. When we sat in this august House, we deliberated at length on the consultations on the implications of the provisions of Clause 2, so there can be no technical issue involved.
However, on a procedural issue, the Hon. Speaker advised that there was a recommendation and we all know what a recommendation is. Firstly, it is not binding but more importantly as the National Assembly when it comes to money Bills, we are dominus litis. So we are in charge as this august House, the National Assembly.
Therefore, whatever we say on a money Bill actually prevails, even if it was an ordinary Bill - where there is disagreement between the two Houses, the will or the form in which a Bill has been passed in the National Assembly takes precedence. In that regard therefore, I am very disturbed on the language used by the Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance because the way he articulated the issue, it was as if the Ministry of Finance has changed positions, whereas what we were told was that it was simply a recommendation from another House.
The Ministry of Finance interrogated the issues when Hon. Members were debating and they even consulted the Ministry officials. They were very cognisant of what the amendment to Clause 2 would entail. So, we do not want shifting of goal posts, we do not want this level of dishonesty where the Deputy Minister of Finance comes with a different position. If it is a recommendation, he should have said so.
When we sent it to the Senate, Ministry of Finance through the Hon. Minister agreed and because they agreed, they are bound by that understanding. The recommendation of the Senate must be thrown away; we cannot accept it and we as this institution cannot backtrack on something which we articulated on behalf of the destitute people of Zimbabwe whose income has been eroded by high levels of inflation.
I agree with Hon. Mliswa that if possible we would have wanted to revert to the 1, 2 million which we initially advocated for. However, we cannot accept any reduction. What we could be accepting is, if the Hon. Minister was coming to say yes, we have the recommendations from the Senate but as the Ministry of Finance we have considered the plight of the poor Zimbabwean people and we are actually recommending an increase to 1, 2 million per annum which is what we as legislators were advocating for. For those reasons, I have to say to the Hon. Deputy Minister, if it is a recommendation from the Senate; just tell them that the National Assembly has refused.
I want to implore Hon. Members from the other side of the House that we agreed on this position; it was a consensus position where everyone who represents people of this country, who accepts and appreciates the levels of poverty, destitution and the high inflation which we are experiencing in Zimbabwe came up with that common position. It was not a partisan position.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: Before the Leader of the House explains, I am also reading the Bill here. The issue is about the ZWL900 000 which was for 12 months but now we are left with five months. So, whenever we are debating, let us take that in mind so that we are guided accordingly.
HON. MUSHORIWA: What happened on that day Hon. Chair, these figures that the Hon. Minister is now bringing back, at one time when we had debated, we came up with these figures – the Ministry officials came up with these figures. When they brought the figures, we then told them that the figures that you are coming up with, the 375 000 translate to around 31 000 per month.
We then told them, let us draw a proper system where we say 900 000 with effect from 1 August. We then took a break for dinner so that the Ministry official and the Minister could actually do the re-wording and working. When we came back in this august House, we then agreed that it was up to 900 000 with effect from 1st August.
Madam Chair, to just show you the danger of trying to even entertain this recommendation, even the office of the Presidency, Nick Mangwana, the Presidential spokesperson had even to write boasting on his Twitter account that for the first time employees that are earning the first 75 000 are not going to be taxed.
The truth of the matter is that if we are going to allow this amendment that is being proposed here, it will create problems and because we had had an agreement between the Ministry and Parliament, it was adopted.
The Deputy Minister of Finance is precluded from coming into this House and pretends as if this amendment comes from the Ministry of Finance. The Ministry of Finance and this House is in agreement and what we need to simply do is to simply say no to what the Senate has said. I know the Hon. Leader of the House, I know you are a Member of this august House – do not masquerade as if you a Member of the Senate.
We should not take the time that we debated this over two days and we made this resolution across; it was a bi-partisan agreement and there is no reason why we can go back to what we agreed on.
So Madam Chair, the position is simple. The recommendation by the Senate is denied and we do not want it – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
The Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs having stood up to respond.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, he is the Leader of the House and he is also a Minister who sits in Cabinet. He wants to respond and also set clarity. The Minister has the right to respond. Let me get my Standing Order so that I inform you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. The two clauses that have been recommitted to the National Assembly are simply seeking to give clarity so that when tax consultants are doing their work, they will not bring unnecessary confusion. If you look at what it says, the ZW$900 000.00 is effective from the 1st of January and if we allow it to sail like that, it would mean that there will not be any taxes that will be collected the last five months. When we passed the first Finance Bill, if you divide ZW$900 000.00 by 12, you will get ZW$75 000.00, but what this amendment is simply saying is, we are going to amend the Finance Act where it says with effect from the 1st of January, we amend it to with effect from 1st of August, that this tax level becomes up to ZW$375 000.00. So the last five months, if you divide by 5, it comes to ZW$75 000.00. If you divide ZW$900 000.00 by 12, it is ZW$75 000.00.
The effect is that the first tax table was not up to ZW$75 000.00. So what it would mean is that Government would not collect revenue the last five months because people would have been over taxed the first seven months. To give clarity, all it is doing is whatever you are debating is correct and it is up to ZW$75 000.00 but the effective date is the 1st of August. If you take the first one up to ZW$375 000.00, zero percent and divide it by five months, it gives you ZW$75 000.00. If you go back and you divide ZW$900 000.00 by 12, it gives you ZW$75 000.00 but the problem then arises that if we leave it the way it was couched, it would mean that the last five months Government owes tax payers’ money. So the reason why it had to be recommitted is to clean it up so that it becomes clear but whatever you are saying remains as it is. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Chair, I just wish Hon. Leader of the House was in the House on the day. One of the things that we were cognisant of is, we never said ZW$900 000.00 from the 1st of January. That is not what we said. What was agreed and I just wish Hon. Prof. M. Ncube was here because I recall Hon. Biti actually put it and I want the Hon. Deputy Minister to read the agreed position, the compromise, and the text which we agreed on in this august House. The text said ZW$900 000.00 with effect from the 1st of August. It never said from 1st of January. That is why we want the text of the Bill and that is what we agreed on but the Minister of Justice was not here.
It was ZW$900 000.00 with effect from 1st August. Let me do basic arithmetic. It simply says ZW$900 000.00 per annum with effect from 1st of August. The reason why the word per annum is put there, it means that the five months will be calculated, you divide ZW$900 000.00 by 12 months and it will bring ZW$75 000.00 but that ZW$75 000.00 applies from 1st August.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Chair, the Minister should have just come to the House and say I want to correct my mistake. He must not misrepresent facts by saying the Senate said this. This recommendation is not from the Senate, but I am worried about the precedence where if a Minister does something here, he uses the Senate as the pretext. So the issue is not to do with the Senate. The Senate never raised it and the Minister, if he perceives it to be a mistake, should correct his mistake, not to say the Senate gave a recommendation.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Madzimure, the problem with us is assuming things. It gives us problems in future. I think this is the procedure that had to be followed and that is why we are here today. The reason why we take Bills to the Senate is for consideration and when a consideration comes, we are supposed to be able to accept it since that is the procedure of Parliament.
HON. BITI: Madam Chair, the Hon. Minister must table before this House what we agreed and what we passed. We agreed on ZW$900 000.00 tax free threshold with effect from the 1st of August, 2022 – what does that mean? It simply means that the ZW$75 000.00 tax free threshold which would only become effective from the 1st of August, 2022 going forward. It will not apply retrospectively. We made that point very clear. Hon. Raidza and myself went to the officials that were there and we said, once you say ZWL$900 000 from 1 August 2022, we said it will be any accountant’s nightmare, any accountant will know that from 1 January he will apply the ZWL$300 000 that was in existence. From 1 August 2022 it is now ZWL$75 000. We were very clear.
What concerns me now is that if you look at the figures, go to the substance of the figures that are being proposed by the amendment, it is reducing the tax free threshold to ZWL$750 000 as opposed to ZWL$900 000. Also if you go to the Bill, the amended Finance Act No. 9 was sent to us in our emails and I urge Hon. Members to go to your emails. If you go to your emails, you will find Finance Bill No. 9 final corrected version. If you go to the final corrected version and I will read to you Madam Chair the explanatory notes on Section 14. The Minister now says he is giving amendments so that the agreed tax free thresholds is ZWL$600 000 but we had agreed ZWL$900 000. When he goes to Senate, he is now carrying ZWL$600 000. The Bill is here Madam Chair. He took ZWL$600 000 to the Senate yet we had agreed on ZWL$900 000. Hon. Zwizwai was saying let us see the Hansard of the Senate, I would submit that he is correct. The Minister of Finance is not being truthful to this august House and to the Senate.
Minister Ziyambi, there is more than a technical issue here of dates. There is a substantive issue. The Minister is playing around with figures. He is being dishonest. We cannot rubber stamp dishonest figures. I thank you.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: I think I need clarity here. You are speaking on dates. That is where the issue is because as it stands now, when it went to the Senate, it was on ZWL$900 000. We have got a copy here.
HON. BITI: No it was on Z$600 000.
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON: It was on Z$900 000 and that is why we are saying that…
Hon. Biti approached the Chair.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Madam Chair. Having considered the debate on the recommendations from the Senate, we are accepting the amendment of Section 3. The amendment of Schedule to Chapter 23:04 will read as follows, “The Schedule, credits and rates of income tax to Chapter 1 of the Finance Act, Chapter 23:04 is amended with effect from 1st August in the year of assessment, beginning on 1st January, 2022 in Part 2, by deletion of the items relating to the level of taxable income earned in Zimbabwe dollars from employment and the substitution of the following with effect from 1st August to 31st December, 2022. I submit.
Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Madam Chair. Proposed amendments to Clause 3 are similar to amendments on Clause 2.
Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
RESPONSE TO THE REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON INFORMATION, MEDIA AND BROADCASTING SERVICES ON THE BENCHMARKING VISIT TO KENYA
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. PARADZA): Hon. Speaker, I am making a Ministerial Statement in response to a Parliamentary delegation of the Portfolio Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services on their benchmarking visit to Kenya with reference to legislation and operationalisation of community radio stations.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Mokone, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services, for her informative report on her delegation’s benchmarking visit to Kenya to enquire on the legislation and operationalisation of community radio stations. I would like to also thank the Hon. Members that contributed to the debate and as a Ministry, we truly value these contributions.
Hon. Speaker Sir, let me begin by informing this House that President Mnangagwa’s administration has seen it fit to reform the media in this country. You are aware that AIPPA was repealed in this Parliament and it was substituted with the law that is friendlier, that is the Freedom of Information Act and the Zimbabwe Media Commission Act. Right now we are in the process of drafting the Zimbabwe Media Practitioners Bill to deal with aspects of the code of conduct and professionalism within the media sector. In addition to that, the administration has also opened up the airwaves and we are currently amending, as I said, the Broadcasting Services Act to be in sync with global trends. These amendments should be with Parliament soon.
Hon. Speaker Sir, it is out of this raft of media laws that we have reshaped the media landscape. In other words, Hon. Speaker, the media will never be the same again in this country. You are well aware that we have issued through the Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe, six national commercial television licences, 14 community radio station licences and eight campus radio station licences. Some of the television and community radio stations are already on air while others are at different stages of development. Just to show how this administration has positively responded to calls to open up the media space, we now have six national radio stations, 10 commercial radio stations, 14 community radio stations as I have said and eight campus radio stations, seven new television stations including AZAM TV from East Africa. This is in addition to ZBCs three channels and another new kid on the block, Dream Africa Channel.
Therefore Hon. Speaker, this administration has listened to what Zimbabweans wanted and we have done precisely that. We are also in the process of finalising some modalities of issuing out both community television licences and provincial radio licences so that all our people have access to a variety of information and programmes of their own choice. This is our focus media diversity.
The policy of this Government is to free up the airwaves and allow more players in the broadcasting sector. As I have said before, to show Government sincerity to the transformation in the broadcasting sector, this administration is also aligning broadcasting and media sector laws to the Constitution. Some of the major policy outlook positions to be introduced in the broadcasting sector include the need to ensure that the country has diverse broadcasting services in public, commercial and community to ensure compliance with international best practices. This will ensure that citizens receive diverse broadcasting services through further deliberate efforts to introduce more community radio stations to close the gaps and empower our rural communities, hence, His Excellency’s mantra not leaving anyone or any community behind.
Our focus right now is to have all the 14 community radio stations on air before we issue more licences. We are also looking at the regulatory framework for community radio services with more emphasis on their sustainability. Assessments will be done on those that have commenced broadcasting and see areas where policy positions can be taken to ensure sustainability on their operations.
Madam Speaker, my Ministry will also look to see how communities of interest such as churches and other interest groups can be accommodated for future licences by the regulator. Within the scope of amendments to the Broadcasting Services Act is the issue of allowing a certain percentage of foreigners to hold shareholding and directorship in the broadcasting sector.
Madam Speaker, let me now deal with the Committees recommendations.
The Ministry of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services should review the Broadcasting Services Act to include a provision that outlines the legal parameters for source of funding of community radio stations by December 22.
Madam Speaker, the resolution is noted. Currently the Broadcasting Services Act (Chapter 12:6) prohibits all broadcasters from receiving foreign donations or contributions and the Broadcasting Services which is community and campus regulations. Radio regulations gazetted through SI 39 of 2020 also prohibits broadcasting of commercial adverts other than sponsorship announcements. While this is the current position going forward, Madam Speaker, is the current Broadcasting Amendment, the Ministry included the following as sources of funding for the community radio stations:
a) Broadcasting Services Fund.
b) The diaspora community support.
c) Sponsored programmes.
d) Free local corporate community, so in other words, we are agreeable to the recommendations of the Committee;
Thatthe BAZ should consider the community of interest of persons applying for the licence when licensing community radio stations by October 2022. This is already in place. The BAZ started with languages first; we have catered for all the 16 languages in the Constitution and it is part of the plan that is going forward, subject to availability of frequencies. Other community of interests will be considered such as religion, et cetera.
That the Ministry of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services should establish a Media Council that will provide a code of conduct for community radio journalists to deal with issues of biased reporting by Community Radio Stations by December 2022. This is noted and is being addressed. The Ministry is working towards this through the upcoming Media Practitioners Bill. The Bill requires professional associations to register their codes of conduct with the Zimbabwe Media Commission that will deal with, amongst other issues, biased reporting, falsehoods, et cetera. However, the time period is not practical considering our legislative process.
That the Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe should lower the fees for licences to ease the financial burden for applicants in community broadcasting by October 2022. This is well noted and the Ministry will engage BAZ on the matter.
That the BAZ should provide a platform of online application for community broadcasting licensing by November 2022; BAZ will be engaged and instructed to ensure that this is implemented. However, it is important to note that these communities are mostly situated in remote rural areas and may not for now have access to internet services to enable them to submit the applications online.
That through the Broadcasting Fund, the Ministry of Information Publicity and Broadcasting Services should provide financial and technical support to Community Radio Stations by September 2022. This is noted and is being implemented. The Ministry and the Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe have been capacitating the recently licensed Community Radio Stations with equipment as well as training the community on community broadcasting. BAZ has donated equipment to Community Radio Stations to enable them to start broadcasting. The Ministry has also facilitated and sought funding from other development partners who have donated equipment to the radio stations. BAZ and other partners have also provided training to volunteers that work or will work on the Community Radio Stationers. However, more will continue to be done to ensure that the radio stations are well capacitated.
In addition to the above, the Broadcasting Services Act will be amended to ensure that one of the objects of the Broadcasting Fund includes the sustenance of Community Radio Stations to ensure that those licensed would remain sustainable.
That the Broadcasting Authority of Zimbabwe should put in place effective mechanisms to monitor Community Radio Stations and ensure that funds generated from the operations are reinvested in activities benefiting the community by November 2022. This is well noted and will be implemented. Currently, Community Radio Stations are required to utilise all funds of the Radio Station to promote the objectives of the Community Radio Stations as per section 7 (1) (a) of the Broadcasting Services (Community and Campus) Radio Regulations gazetted through Statutory Instrument 39 of 2020. BAZ has an obligation to ensure that the Community Radio Stations comply with this requirement of law; additionally, that the Ministry should come up with laws that will discourage interference on ownership and programming by these organisations by December 2022.
This is noted and shall be implemented within the confines of the law. The structure of Community Radio Stations is such that they are owned by the members of the Community who vote and appoint trustees to the radio stations. Community members shall be conscientised on their rights and the need to be involved in these radio stations to avoid interference.
The aspect of interference in the programming is already provided for in law. The Broadcasting Services (Licensing and Content) Regulations gazetted in S.I 185 of 2004 provides in section 36 (c) that Community Radio Stations shall demonstrate independence in their programming as well as their editorial and management decisions. BAZ is therefore required by law to monitor the radio stations to ensure compliance with the provisions of law.
That the Ministry of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services should come up with laws that discourage broadcasting of hate speech by December 2022. This is well noted. However, the banning of the hate speech is already provided for in section 13 (h) of the Broadcasting Services (Licensing and Content) Regulations gazetted in SI 185 of 2004 which provides that all Broadcasting Services licensees shall ensure that the programming and its presentation does not incite or perpetuate hatred against, or vilify any group of persons on the basis of ethnicity, race, gender and religion or disability. Furthermore, the Ministry has approved the Code of Conduct for broadcasters that is awaiting gazetting, which also have other provisions relating to this issue. Also in terms of section 61 (5) (c) of the Constitution, freedom of expression and freedom of media excludes advocacy of hatred or hate speech.
Madam Speaker, in conclusion, this administration is open to new ideas from stakeholders that can improve the broadcasting sector. All the amendments to the Broadcasting Services Act were discussed at an All Stakeholders Workshop in Gweru where Parliament was involved through our esteemed Committee on Information, Media and Broadcasting Services including those stakeholders in the media industry. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Minister for his response. I want the Hon. Minister to clarify some of the things. Hon. Minister, sustainability of these radios also depends on the content and programmes. How much freedom are you going to give to the community radios to run their own businesses as a Ministry? Are you going to donate equipment to them and even to provide money for them to start?
My other point of clarification is - how much freedom is the Ministry going to give to these radio stations so that they become more commercial in terms of attracting those people with content and programmes that they would want aired through those community radios that are paid for, that makes them more commercially run. Obviously, they will not face these financial problems that may cause them to shut down because they will plan their own income flows into the radios. Also the issue of fees, why can the Ministry not reduce the fees for the community radios considering that these are community based radios where we are trying to encourage the local people to be informed and to participate in their own development?
The other issue is to do with digitalisation. I think it is now long overdue and we would want the Minister to consider its completion so that more space is created in the airwaves to allow new players to come in. I also want the Minister to note that we are the only country with 42 years after independence still having one television station. We cannot talk of ZTN because these are Government run stations. It will be better to open up space. The Minister is quite aware that where there is freedom of information, there is always development because a lot of things are created and people can see what is happening around them and also around the world.
Lastly, would it not be prudent Hon. Minister to have a Community Radio Act which will then harmonise the various Statutory Instruments that you have been talking about that are regulating the activities of these community radios? Probably, when it started, it was a new idea but your experience so far may indicate to the fact that you now need to harmonise and come up with a proper statutory Act that will govern the operations of community radios. I thank you.
HON. MOKONE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for the response that he gave but I have a few issues of clarity. In line with digitalisation that has taken so long for it to be completed, you know that Zimbabwe is one of the few countries that have not fully digitalised in the Southern Africa. When are you going to put up transmitters that cover a wide range since you have highlighted that there are so many community radios that you have opened countrywide and that you are also planning to also introduce countrywide?
As I am speaking to you right now, Ntepe-Manama Community Radio Station only has a transmitter that covers an eight kilometer radius yet other transmitters in other provinces are covering 200km radius. The other issue is that you mentioned that you are not going to open up foreign donations. Why are you not opening up foreign donations for these community radios because clearly they are suffocating, they cannot actually sustain themselves and Government is also failing to assist them?
The other issue is that Kenya allows dialects to have community radios but here in Zimbabwe, we are talking of ethnic groups, so why can you not also do the same, allow different dialects to have community radios? The other issue is that you mentioned that you cannot open online applications because of internet. I would like to find out from the Minister whether they have actually approached their counterpart in the Ministry of ICT to find out what mechanisms they can come up with so that they finish the digitalisation process so that everyone in Zimbabwe actually have access to internet. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Good afternoon Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon Hon. Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: I just have one point but before that Madam Speaker, let me thank both Hon. Members, the Chairperson of that Committee which went on a benchmarking visit as well as the Hon. Deputy Minister. They went to Kenya barely three, four months ago and their report has come to the House and in the same vein, the Deputy Minister has responded. It is unparalleled. Some reports get to this House four or almost five years later, meaning that we waste taxpayers’ money going on benchmarking visits which do not bear fruits. I must also thank the Minister yet again for conceding to most of their recommendations. I like the camaraderie spirit between your Committee and the Ministry. In fact, I must hasten Madam Speaker, with your permission, to say today we saw two Deputy Ministers doing very well in this House. It is really commendable.
Let me clarify the issues Madam Speaker. The Hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that they will be taking care of communities of interest such as churches by way of granting them broadcasting licencing. Is he comfortable to attach dates as to when this can be taken care of? I was listening out for the word advertising revenue or that phrase in the Minister’s statement but he sort of wiggled around that and did some egg walking; he mentioned sponsored bulletins. I do not know if it is that painful for him to allow community radio stations to also benefit from advertising revenue because the Minister, as a journalist himself, knows how to drive radios.
On the question of digitalisation, are we digitalising in stages because my fear is, there is equipment that we put on site before 2013 and by the time we say we are digitalising, that equipment might be obsolete. What consideration is in place to ensure that such infrastructure has been put in place?
The Minister speaks of 16 official languages but I know, Madam Speaker, that your Parliament has added another one, if I remember very well, Chinomba; is that taken care of Minister so that it reads 17. I think with that, I am satisfied and happy with the timeous delivery of the report as well as the response from the Hon. Minister. These are some of the beautiful stories coming out of your House Madam Speaker that I believe must be shared with His Excellency. I really thank both of you Hon. Members. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION,
PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. PARADZA): Thank you Hon. Members for your observations. Hon. Madzimure wants to know about the freedom for the community radios and also he talked about interference from Government or anyone and also goes on to talk about the commercial and so on. These community radios, the way we have structured them is that they will get their content within the community that they are operating from. So there is no interference whatsoever from Government, that is why we have also said we do not want any interference from politicians.
These radio stations are for developmental purposes so that people talk to each other within those communities about Pfumvudza/Intwasa or any other developmental activity coming from their own respective areas. So there will not be any interference from anyone because they will create their own content. The only content they can get from Government is possibly that of national interest and national news, possibly but we do not interfere but we can use the community radios for us to also send our messages to the communities. This is one way of sending our messages to the communities as Government and also for receiving messages from the community. So it is a two-way process.
Then he talked about having reduced commercial entities. No, we are not going to do that. We have already given licences to commercial radio stations and we are going to give more licences to commercial radio stations. Here, let us talk about sustainability of these community radio stations. The law is very clear that these are for the community and they are not there to make profit. They are non-profit making radio stations. There are some which are there to make profit so they must be a difference between sustainability and commercialisation.
He went on to talk about the amount of fees for the licences. Yes, I agree with him. We are going to consider that and possibly review. Digitalisation programme to be completed as soon as possible, yes we want this to be completed and it was supposed to have been completed seven years ago but because of budgetary issues, it is now 7 to 8 years down the line. We are worried as Government that technology is changing fast and we may end up losing some of these but we have so far injected more than US$70 million into this digitalisation programme. We need more money from Treasury but what is happening is that Treasury is disbursing this money in Zim dollars but all the equipment requires foreign currency.
So, what we would like Treasury to do in this instance is for Treasury to disburse to the suppliers in foreign currency rather than to give BAZ or the Ministry in ZWL. If they give us the money in ZWL, we are forced to go and queue at the Auction Floor and you know how the Auction Floor operates. Sometimes you get USD sometimes you do not. Right now, we were given a billion dollars and that billion dollars is still there. We have not received any foreign currency out of that but we are happy that the Minister of Finance released $2 million which is going to buy what we call set-top boxes so that we can start to operationalise this digitisation programme. If we have these set-top boxes, yes we can start broadcasting.
The other issue which we are considering is to sell spectrum to these mobile operators and so forth. We have tried to do that to Netone but Netone could not raise the money. So it is one of the options on the table which we are considering as Government. Hon. Madzimure, you talked of Community Radio Acts but let us have these on air first so that we can review as they are broadcasting so that we can see if the current law does not cure what we want to be cured.
Hon. Mokone you talked about lack of transmission. You are aware because you have been visiting our transmitters. We have 48 transmitters and out of those, 18 are working, 30 still have to be digitalised. So 18 are digital compliant and for these 18, we can start transmitting. On top of that, we have a satellite which covers the whole country and we can sue satellite as well. However, she talked specifically about Ntebe-Manama which we are going to launch very soon. It is already on air on trial basis and she is correct, the transmitter which we have put there, actually it is not a transmitter. We have gone to put our gadgets on the Econet base stations but we are going to get a new transmitter for Ntebe-Manama so that it can broadcast on a radius of about 80 km or so.
On foreign donations, yes we allow foreign donations from our Zimbabwean citizens in the diaspora. If we can get money donations from our people who are in the diaspora to donate to radio stations within the community that they come from, we will appreciate that. What we do not want is to have foreigners who donate then they want to control the content of the radio station; that we do not want and that is why we shun foreign donations from those people who are not citizens of Zimbabwe. However, if foreigners want to donate equipment, yes they are welcome. Our development partner, UNESCO has donated equipment to some of our three radio stations in Manicaland. We appreciate that if we can get their donations as long as they do not interfere in the editorial content of these radio stations.
On dialects, we are encouraging that and even these current radio stations; we are encouraging them to include the dialects which are spoken in those areas. However, it is going to be phase two. Here we want to have the 14 on air first then we review and then we can also issue licences to other important dialects.
In terms of internet connectivity, the Ministry of ICT have promised to put up about 300 or so base stations across the country. So, we hope that we are going to get connectivity. As soon as we get connectivity, we will do the online applications after we get that. Right now because the country is not 100% connected, it is a problem.
Hon. Ndebele, yes you are right and thank you very much for the compliment. You are aware that mass communication is always in a hurry and that is why we are always here to respond. Community of interest, yes we are going to cater for those but first we want these 14 to go on air first. Adverts, we are actually going to allow adverts on these community radio stations. They are going to get adverts from the business community around them. So we are going to get adverts even from national banks or government departments. What we want is for the radio stations to be sustainable. The community does not have money. When I went round the country to see how prepared they were, some communities especially in Beitbridge and in Madziwa were contributing a dollar each to these radio stations so that they are up and running and it was actually encouraging. Digitalization, like I said, is in phases and the Ministry is alive to the fact that technology changes. We are however going to cure that as soon as we get funding from Treasury. I think I have done justice to this.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Indeed, there are many issues, so I want to hear from the Minister because when I became an MP, we were promised that there would be more televisions and radio stations but to-date there is not much that we see. You said we are in a democratic society and there should be variety in terms of what people view and listen to (content) instead of watching one television channel, ZBC only. I remember we bought decoders and satellite dishes because there was JOY TV and KWESE TV which were all banned. You were saying things would work but how will they work when you are busy banning other players who come along? You banned Masiiwa’s Econet television. Why ban a rich person who is able to bring content? There was no politics in the past but just entertainment. Maybe you should engage these players to come back because people lost their monies. When we went to Victoria Falls, Minister Mutsvangwa said ‘we are open to other players and we are opening up our airwaves’ but we only hear about community radios. Why not have private stations with different content?
ZTV and ZBC become boring - that is why you find people going to Studio 7 where they end up hearing more negative content that you do not want them to hear. In Kenya, there is Kenya television and different radio stations. This is an open market where everyone is free. The last time we asked about the Constituency Talk, the Hon. Minister said it is an independent production, so if there was a different television, maybe we were going to get sponsorship but currently we cannot because we are regarded as opposition. I thank you.
*HON. PARADZA: Madam Speaker, I explained this when I was speaking before. Right now we have issued six licences to private players. Out of those six, two are already broadcasting. ZTN channel 294 and 3KTV channel 293 on DSTV. So the law gives these players 18 months to get their house in order and start broadcasting and the time is almost due for them to start. Most of them will start broadcasting before end of December and maybe a few will remain.
Additionally, we have an East African television called Agam television which we also permitted to broadcast in Zimbabwe. There are also commercial radio stations aside from community radio stations because that was the report brought by the Committee. We also have ZIFM, CAPITALK, STARFM, DIAMOND FM, you can listen to a variety of stations and this is what Hon. Minister Mutsvangwa was referring to. I do not know about KWESE and the past but I can talk about the new dispensation. I cannot comment about what happened in the past but we concentrate on the present which I know of.
The satellite dishes that you have can still be used to access 3KTV, ZTN and ZBC. They were not banned but the company collapsed. The company got broke and even Masiiwa’s company Mr. Dish was not banned. It was a business disagreement and has nothing to do with the Government of Zimbabwe. Government licensed a lot of stations by opening the airwaves. So let me end by saying that for the fourteen that got licenses, some of them are now broadcasting and after every one of them has started broadcasting, we are then going to continue opening the airwaves. We are going to amend the Broadcasting Services Act so that anyone who wants to apply throughout the year can do so. We also want to put an amendment in the Act that foreigners with money can partner with Zimbabweans and inject funds into the broadcasting industry so that we build a multi-million dollar industry where foreign players can own 40% whilst other countries allow 20% but in Zimbabwe, we allow 40% directorship. This will be done through the Broadcasting Services Act when amended. I believe that when the Bill comes to this august House Hon. Member, you are going to support it. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Finance Bill [H. B. 9B, 2022].
CONSIDERATION STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9B, 2022]
Amendments to Clauses 2 and 3 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9B, 2022]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. TEKESHE, the House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes to Six O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 8th September, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put their phones on silent or better still switch them off.
APOLOGIGES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Today is Thursday and as usual, we start with Questions without Notice. A number of Ministers have tendered apologies and they are as follows:
Hon. C. D. G. N Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care;
Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs;
Hon. Prof. P. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities.
Hon. Prof. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
Hon. J. G. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works;
Hon. F. M. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;
Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
Hon. Sen. M. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services;
Hon. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;
Hon. Dr. S. Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce;
Hon. R. Modi, Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce;
Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. Dr. A. Masuka, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement;
Hon. D. Marapira, Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water and Rural Resettlement;
In the Senate today we have:
Hon. F. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructure Development;
Hon. M. Chombo, Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works;
Hon. R. Machingura; Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
Hon. R. Maboyi-Mavhungu, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
Hon. L. Matuke, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What plans does your Ministry have with regards to distribution of supplementary feeding in schools so as to reduce school drop-outs and forced marriages?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you. Government is not just distributing food but there are a lot of other things that are meant to assist learners. This year we have budgeted for $2.8 million that is meant to assist school children or learners through BEAM. Government pays fees for primary and secondary school learners, including examination fees. At the moment, we have a programme in two districts that are pilot projects. One of them is Mbire where fees are paid for learners to the extent of assisting them to be provided with school uniforms. Beneficiaries will be selected amongst the less privileged children. We will also provide learners with food whilst they go to school. With your permission Mr. President, in future we will be able to give a breakdown of the actual allocations with the specific areas. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. We have vulnerable groups within our communities, that is, the elderly, orphans and the disabled. These people are supposed to get food throughout the year, especially in areas in region 5. The information that we have is that these people last received food assistance in March. Up to now, they have not received any food. What is the Government policy on that issue?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Mr. President. Let me thank the Hon. Senator for such a good question. With effect from 1st October, we are going to distribute food to more than two million families. This programme will roll up to end of December. From January to March, we are going to distribute food to 3.8 million households and it will be on full scale. From the ZIMVAC report, it indicates that a total of 3.8 million households need food assistance. We have got about 15.000 metric tonnes which is already available, which we will continue to distribute even before October. However, we have targeted areas with severe drought. The 15.000 metric tonnes are not for the whole country. As we go to October, we are going to increase our numbers to more than two million, then 3.8 million from January up to March. If there are areas which you may point, we could specifically advise our office so that from that small budget, we can see how best we can distribute the maize to the areas in need. Thank you so much.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I would want to thank the Hon. Minister for the response. However, it does not answer my question; it answers it partially because I have asked about the period from March to October where you are saying you are going to start. Whose responsibility is it for those vulnerable groups to be given food?
HON. MATUKE: Thank you Mr. President. Yes, we know we had some few problems with quite a number of areas from our different provinces. I am not going to speak as from March but I will start from now. We could not provide enough as you indicated but basing on the ZIMVAC report, they listed some areas which were almost 80% short of grain. Those areas which were not indicated by ZIMVAC, we could not supply food because most of the areas could provide food for themselves up to October. I agree with you that there are some areas which were omitted by error and those are the areas which I am requesting you to forward to our office. Currently, we have 15.000 metric tonnes and we could then allocate something to those areas in need. We never stopped food distribution but we were targeting areas which were in dire need of the grain. We are so happy to receive that information. If you know there is an area which you feel there is urgent need to distribute maize, please let us know. We can make arrangements and make sure that we distribute the maize as soon as we can receive that request. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We also have two Ministers who are attending virtually and are ready to answer your questions. They are Hon. E. Moyo, the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Secondly, we have Hon. J. Mhlanga, the Deputy Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises. She is also available to answer questions.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Hon. Minister, what are we doing as Government to monitor over-dependence of NGOs and donors for aid in the country in some provinces?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): If I heard the Hon. Senator correctly, she is talking about the overdependence of our members of the community. Is that correct?
HON. A. DUBE: No, are operations of some NGOs in the country being monitored?
HON. MATUKE: I now get the sense of your question. I will try to answer that. What we have done as a Ministry is, we have got a committee at district level. It is chaired by those we used to call the DAs. It is an inter-ministerial committee which is at every district which also has the duty to monitor the operations of NGOs. Every NGO which provides anything to any community has to go through that committee and also when they go out there to give whatever they want to give, they seek approval from our offices. Those who deviate from their mandate, normally we delist them, but we can only do that when we get reports that this NGO has deviated from its mandate.
Sometimes we get information from the local councilors as to whether the NGOs are following their mandates because I can see your question is that there are NGOs who go out there not to help people but to do things which are a bit evil in terms of politicising maybe whatever they will be giving. If we get knowledge of any of those NGOs, the Ministry will not hesitate to delist the NGO from our books so that they will not continue with their operations. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Dr. J. M. Gumbo, Minister of State for Presidential Affairs in charge of Implementation and Monitoring is on the virtual platform, so you can ask questions. Also, Dr. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education has joined on virtual. You can ask questions.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. In this country we have a refugee camp called Tongogara Refugee Camp. There are children who stay in the camp who attend a school there in the camp. Can these children not have their school fees being paid for by BEAM which is meant for those children who cannot pay for themselves? The other thing is, those who are supported up to ‘A’ Level, are they then able to proceed to university after that? Who then takes over their fees payment?
* THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Tongagara camp is a refugee camp where those people who would have fled their countries because of wars stay. There are over 2 000 refugees that stay in that camp who come from different countries such as Mozambique, Congo and many other war-torn countries to stay here in Zimbabwe.
The Government built a clinic there so that they have access to health facilities and it also constructed a secondary and primary school to cater for those children in the camp. The refugees were also given land for agriculture because some of the food the refugees would have been used to in their countries may not be available in this country, for example some of them, their staple food maybe bananas or cassava. So they have been allocated that land. Donors such as United Nations and UNICEF also assist through supporting those children in addition to what the Government offers, there are also children that go to universities. Government also supports their projects and some are into poultry, soap making, piggery. There is an area allocated for such productivity where they actually earn money. We have not yet heard reports of children failing to pay fees because some of it comes from donors and some from Government. There are children there who have degrees from universities and are employed. In Gutu, there is a school and the school employed a French teacher from there. He is an expert who has the necessary qualification. They are allowed to work but their certificates are withheld so that they can be traced at any given time. Some even own commuter omnibuses and are even more successful than some of the people here in Harare. It is a place where people are taken care of very well and there are a lot of activities that enable them to survive very well.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): I have to inform the Senate that The Hon. Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development has joined us on virtual, Hon. M. Ndlovu, Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry has also joined on virtual.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. What is the Government position on payment of fees which is currently obtaining in our schools? With the opening of schools, most schools have divided school fees payment in local currency and foreign currency. A number of parents may try the local currency portion but fail to get the foreign currency portion because it is not easy to get foreign currency on the official market and they are not remunerated enough to go to the parallel market where it is almost two to three times the official rate. Schools are refusing to accept those students, so what is Government policy regarding that? I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: She wrote a message to say wherever she is, she will be on virtual so Hon. Senators can ask questions. Also Hon. M. Ndlovu had said he is on virtual, but now he is in the Senate at least this is good.
(v)THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. NDLOVU): Thank you Mr. President. Although I am not feeling well, I can respond. The policy is very clear that the parents who have got the foreign currency can pay in foreign currency and those with local currency can pay in that currency. That is Government’s position. We see on social media; we are worried that some schools have decided to come up with their own policy which is not Government policy. We call upon all parents and school heads to make sure that they accept payments in either foreign currency or local currency. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: My supplementary question is that this is currently happening and children are losing out, including children who are in examination classes. What is the Government doing because the Hon. Minister has just articulated the policy but already children are suffering and we cannot reverse that suffering once that happens because they are suffering from an illegality which is being perpetrated in our Government institutions? I thank you.
(v)HON. E. NDLOVU: I hear the Hon. Senator, illegality is a challenge in this country, I am sure and we are all aware that the issue of the black market; we have been trying as Government to address that issue but schools continue to break the law. What we have done is that we have engaged the Anti-Corruption Commission to track all those that are demanding foreign currency payments. We just pray that the Anti-Corruption Commission will do its part to assist us. Mr. President, I think you are aware that as Government, we are in trouble in terms of the black market. It is similar to what is happening in schools and I call upon all our people to resist these people who break the law and report them to the Anti-Corruption Commission. I think the Commission can assist us. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. President, probably the Hon. Minister will be very useful to the country if she tells us how the children are being protected because this is an illegality, I do not know where the Anti-Corruption Commission would come in, how would the Anti-Corruption Commission respond to this practice which is happening in our school? My question is, parents can afford to pay in local currency but schools have divided their fees into half foreign and half local currency and parents have got no access to foreign currency. They are not being paid enough to pay for that and our children are now being denied to access lessons because they have not fulfilled that second portion of foreign currency. Does that amount to an illegality? I was of the opinion that the Minister should be very clear to the nation that is it the duty of the Anti-Corruption Commission or the Minister should make sure she brings order to her Ministry which she is superintending.
(v)HON. DR. E. NDLOVU: Mr. President, I think the Senator should bear with me that I have no police force in my Ministry to enforce that policy. Police force resides in another Ministry. Mr. President, I am serving the nation. When he started his question, he said I am not serving the nation. I think I have given myself 100% to the nation to make sure that I serve the nation as per my mandate from the President. The Anti-Corruption Commission works with the Police. If we raise issues, they also come in because that is part of their duty. I think the Hon. Senator can advise me on the methodology that we can use. It is an instrument or police that can enforce that. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. The term is almost over after electing provincial councillors to work in their respective areas. At the moment, the law that is supposed to guide their operations, where has it ended because there are certain things that need to be put in place which are making it impossible to happen because of this problem? We put them on those positions for a purpose in those provinces and nothing is happening. Are you saying their work is no longer necessary until their term is over? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for that important question. We have since finished everything and the Bill is at the Attorney-General’s Office. The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs told us that their office was overwhelmed by work because they have a huge backlog but he told us that they have been given permission to increase their staff complement in order to expedite such Bills. I cannot tell you when exactly we can expect that Bill but we expect it to come sooner. I would like to ask for forgiveness because the Bill is overdue. We have tried to ensure that those who have been elected get their dues in order for them to survive and that they are able to do their work. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Mr. President, during NDS1 period, it is envisaged that the focus will be to develop feeder roads into communities as to develop the underdeveloped remote areas. In view of that, can the Minister explain to this august House how far his Ministry has gone to ensure the stated focus is achieved and also state the strategies being implemented to ensure the focus is achieved? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Hon. President and I also want to thank Hon. Sen. Kambizi for that very important question. Mr. President Sir, let me start by stating that all roads in this country belong to the Minister of Transport. However, the Ministry of Transport also has road authorities under its purview that are supposed to work together for the betterment of our roads. I am happy to say, of those road authorities that we have, we have got the Department of Roads, DDF, local authorities and we have got rural district councils.
To answer his question, the four road authorities are supposed to work together so that they share the roads that we have. Under normal circumstance, the Ministry of Transport is supposed to superintend over trunk roads and for the feeder roads, the category falls under the purview of the local authorities and rural district councils, particularly the rural areas and under DDF. With the wise counsel of His Excellency Dr. Mnangagwa, he then declared a state of disaster for our roads, meaning that for us to then say this road belongs to DDF, that mandate now falls under the Ministry together with the road authorities so that we approach the roads - be it primary, secondary or tertiary roads, together. This is the strategy that we are currently using.
However, we know that under other jurisdictions, for roads, we get concessional loans to manage roads. We are also competing from the same fiscus pot where we are also waiting for the allocation from Treasury to rehabilitate our roads. So you find that under such an environment, the progress and the speed anticipated by the citizens might not be in tandem with their expectations. I want to assure Hon. Sen. Kambizi, that yes, from provinces, there are roads that we have prioritised and also tried to make sure that the budget that we have as a Ministry is used to cater for such roads.
Mr. President, it is true that the economic enabler, I am referring to our roads, they play a pivotal role and it is true that some of these feeder roads lead to GMB and other important facilities and we are failing in some areas to access those utility areas. I want to assure the Hon. Senator that it is an ongoing exercise; we have got close to 90 000 kilometres and a larger portion of these roads are in a sorry state. It is an exercise that Government is partaking, we have started the exercise and I assure the nation that this is an ongoing exercise that we have prioritised.
(v)HON. DR. B. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity to ask this question. My question is directed to the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development. South Africa and Botswana have SIDA, and these are parastatals that help to develop and finance small and medium enterprises. What is the Zimbabwe policy to help small and medium enterprises? Zimbabwe is estimated to have over 75% informal sectors that need this type of structured development as well as financing. What is the policy in trying to help the informal sector in forming up something close to what South Africa and Botswana have that is helping these small and medium enterprises?
Question was not responded to due to network connectivity.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Minister of Transport, Minister Mhona. Just before I ask my question Mr. President, allow me to thank the Minister for almost always availing himself for Question Time. I think he is a good example of a Minister.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): So, he is one example of a good and effective Minister.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: And a Minister who listens and understands the Constitution and the role of this Senate. My question is that if we go to developed countries or those countries that are in the middle of development like the BRIC countries and so on, we see that there is in those countries an elaborate railway system to help in transportation. What efforts has the Government made to make sure that our railway system is revamped and made operational?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Let me hasten to thank Hon. Sen. Mwonzora for that very important observation. It is true that rail, you find some of the challenges that we are facing as a nation are as a result of failure to have a vibrant and robust railway network. You find that the load that is supposed to go through the rail is now being channeled through the road. I want to agree with the Hon. Senator that even in terms of passenger movement, yes, that is not the core business of rail but you find that you would want such a vibrant railway network where the citizenry have a choice to drive their vehicles on weekends where during the week days they take advantage of a vibrant railway network.
I want to answer the very important question posed by the Hon. Senator that even if during the Mid-term Review that you were debating in this important august House, there was also a component of buying locomotives and wagons under that budget. If you go through what Hon. Prof. Ncube presented, the Government is in the process of acquiring what we call DMUs (diesel multiple units). These are supposed to ferry passengers and that will then answer the question posed by the Hon. Senator, to ease the challenges that we are facing in terms of transportation of our people, the people of Zimbabwe in particular. You find that even the locomotives that we are depending on now, they are very old and archaic where in terms of maintenance it is very expensive.
In that particular budget, there is also a provision where we have engaged a company to procure seven new locomotives and this will go a long way to alleviate some of the challenges that we are witnessing as a nation. His Excellency the President highlighted that in terms of infrastructural development, we are lagging behind when it comes to rail infrastructure. As a Ministry, by having the new locomotives and about 315 new wagons that we are going to procure, I am sure you will then see even the increase in tonnage. Where we used to do over 10 million tonnes, currently we are below three million per month. We hope that as we close the year, in terms of production of the new equipment, we would anticipate to receive the same in the first quarter of next year and you will see tremendous improvement in terms of our tonnage where we are focusing between 8 – 10 million in terms of tonnage that will be moving through the railway line. I want to agree with the Hon. Senator that yes, this plays a very important role in terms of rail network and we are seized as Government to make sure that we revive NRZ.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: My supplementary question to the Minister is; a few years back, the nation was told that there was an agreement with a consortium which had pumped in or promised to pump in about +/-US$400 million to revamp NRZ. What went wrong with that deal Hon. Minister and what can you tell the nation about that celebration which died so early?
HON. MHONA: Let me thank Hon. Sen. Mavetera for that contribution. It is true that there was a pending deal and the company is DIG in particular. It had assured the nation that they were going to bring in locomotives and wagons but along the way, the deal did not materialise. Again, through wise deliberations in Cabinet, it was then seen fit to cancel the deal. As we speak, the transaction went before the courts and under normal circumstance it will be subjudice to disclose further where the challenges are but to say the deal was pending and never materialised. This is why we then failed to have a vibrant partner as NRZ but we did not stop there.
We are in the process of procuring and trying to see whether we can have other partners. As we speak, we have no pending deal and we await the courts to finalise on the DIG matter. Yes, if it had materialised, it was a good deal through seeing but in terms of the implementation matrix, it then failed to take off. So, I want to thank the Hon. Senator for raising it but we assure you that as a Ministry, we will not cringe, only fold our hands and cry over a deal that did not materialise. Thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. There were people who were affected by floods in Chimanimani and Tsholotsho. Now that we are approaching the rain season, how far has the Ministry gone in providing the families with accommodation? Have these families been allocated the land where they can do their farming? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Hon. Senator for the question concerning the welfare of those affected in the Idai pandemic. We have made a lot of strides in as far as making sure that they have shelter. We have created 6000 square meter stands where they will be able to erect their homesteads and also make a living, mostly from horticulture because it is normally the mainstay of the people in Chimanimani area. We have also made provision for water around those stands. We have put temporary shelter for most of them, though we have not been able to house all of them yet but most of them have been moved from tents to their respective stands. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Hon. President for giving me the opportunity to ask my question. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Welfare. We notice that on our streets in urban areas, especially here in Harare, the street kids are now increasing in numbers and we see people giving them food here and there. We see some of the street kids cleaning people’s cars on the roads without permission. The other thing is we used to call them homeless or street children but some of them are becoming mischievous and are now making babies. I do not know whether to call them street children or parents. My question is, as a Ministry, what do you say about that and what is your opinion in terms of making sure that our towns are clean because that is what we want? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): I would like to thank the Hon. Sen. For the question. With regards to the problem about street kids, the Ministry has a lot of places designated for keeping these children. In most of the provinces, we have such places where child headed families are taken care of. We realised that at times the children are too young to take care of themselves, so Government has homes designated to take care of such kids. Government sends them to school, pays their fees and provides them with uniforms until they finish ‘A’ level with the assistance of our development partners.
The issue that you talked about that is happening on the streets, indeed there is a problem in our country. After children lose their parents, close relatives may refuse to take care of them and that is how some of the children end up on the streets. That does not always happen but it is a reality and we need to unite as a country and take care of our relatives just like how we used to do traditionally. Somebody could adopt a child because they shared the same totem but these days, people fail to take care of children who may not be their blood relatives. So, that becomes a real problem especially in urban areas where life is more expensive than in rural areas.
As a Ministry, we take those children but it does not mean that if we take them today, tomorrow you will not find them on the streets. It is a continuously recurring problem due to several problems. Some of the children run away from home after committing crimes at home and at times it is because they will have taken these illicit drugs where a child can sleep for several hours or days. Sometimes they have too much physical power where they become violent and can fight with their parents or relatives then leave home. We have a place called Chambuta in Chiredzi where such children are taken care of but because they are used to sleeping on the streets, they are not used to such places where they get good accommodation, good food and water to bath daily. They run back to the streets. So it is a big problem where the Ministry is now required to continuously go and take them to look after them. So indeed, I would like to concur with you that we have also noticed the increase in numbers on the streets. I will take that message to our Ministry so that we find a way of taking them. Most of them run away if they hear that they are now being looked for to be taken to such homes. Some of them end up being robbers who may be a menace to our society. So that message will be relayed to our Ministry so that the children can be taken to appropriate homes. I thank you.
Questions without notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 67.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Hon. President, I would like to move that the time be extended by fifteen minutes.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My question is directed to the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry. In Zimbabwe, human-wildlife conflict is escalating mainly due to overpopulation of animals in the respective areas. It has been the desire and wish of Zimbabweans to beneficiate from these animals in ivory trade and meat consumption so as to control the herds. We are aware that there is an organisation called CITES which does not allow us to do so. Why do we not quit from CITES so that we can manage our animals without anyone managing us from afar?
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE, TOURISM AND HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY (HON. M. NDLOVU): It is very true that as a country, increasingly we are facing serious human-wildlife conflict emanating mainly from rapidly increasing populations of both humans and wildlife, also from the effects of climate change habitant loss.
It is also true that it would help a lot if this country was allowed to trade in wildlife and wildlife productions, a position which is very difficult within the CITES provisions. We meet every three years, that is all member states of CITES to deliberate on issues and it is a matter of public record that Zimbabwe has been clear in its desire to trade in wildlife and wildlife products. The current provisions are such that all member states of CITES are bound by the provisions of CITES. It was for the first time three years ago that within the CITES convention, a country deposited a dispute and that was Zimbabwe. It was on the basis that we felt that the issues of Zimbabwe are not being given the attention they deserve and this also applied to the whole Southern African region which holds more than 85% of the world elephant population.
We have an option to walk out of CITES but it is a position which we have to clearly consider with its merits and demerits whether it will solve the problems we have or not. The potential bias of our products are members of CITES. They will not be in a position to purchase any if they are still within CITES. If moving out of CITES is a solution to our problems, we would have left the solution within CITES. On due consideration and at the moment, our thinking as a region is that we need to intensify our efforts to influence CITES to make due consideration based on science and experiences our communities are facing on a daily basis to allow these countries to do once off trade of our stock piles but also to be flexible when it comes to trade in our wildlife resources.
Beyond that, as Government, we are working on a policy which we are almost concluding and awaiting Cabinet approval. We believe that it is important as a Government to consider options to compensate communities that are bearing the brunt of human-wildlife conflict. We are at the moment perhaps the only country in the region that still has not brought that as a policy and that policy as I said, is awaiting Cabinet approval. We believe it will go a long way because it also utilises proceeds from wildlife, particularly from hunting so that we are able to respond to the increasing human-wildlife conflict.
I must assure this august House that as we go to CITES this year, we will take a very strong position to advocate for CITES to consider strongly our position because the situation keeps getting worse from CITES to CITES and we know that sometimes some Government, because of funding from certain so-called animal rights groups, fail to consider reason and science. We are in the process of engaging them so that when we go there, we will speak with one voice. I thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: My supplementary question to the Minister is, could the Minister appraise the nation of the benefits which we are getting from CITES – that will be very useful because I think it is now common cause that CITES does not serve our national interests.
HON. M. NDLOVU: Mr. President Sir, CITES is a voluntary body that was established to regulate trade in wildlife and wildlife products internationally. This came about because of increasing poaching levels and because there was always a ready market for these poached products, it then became important that there be formed a body that analyses different plant and wildlife species with regards to their survival, whether they are likely to face extinction and come up with collective international policies that can help curb this.
I must say that as Zimbabwe, we have benefited from CITES and CITES has also benefited from us through sharing best practices in conservation of our different natural resources and best practices in terms of international trade. Admittedly, when it comes to particularly our elephants, we seem to be struggling to extract the full benefits from this. However, we believe that as a country and as a region, we are in a position to help conserve these important animal species for the world, that is why we have always emphasized that we want science to lead the decision making and not necessarily politics because it is clear that it is politics that is at play.
We believe that we have been able to curb poaching of many animal species and have been able to save a number of bird species that were nearing extinction from utilizing CITES provisions. So there are clear benefits from this and we believe that the best way forward for now, is to try and influence CITES to make considerate scientific decisions that also take due consideration of communities that bear the brunt of living adjacent to the wildlife species. We have been open that the issue of us continuing to be members of CITES is up for debate. We will continue to consider as we move on, whether or not as a country our continued membership is giving the optimum results that we are expecting from the body but for now, we are very optimistic that we will influence the decision making within CITES. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Supplementary question Mr. President Sir!
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes, we have run out of time but anyway proceed.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. President …
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I hope you will be very brief.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Very brief Mr. President but I think it is very disturbing. The world over is saying their nation first, you can go to the United States of America and it is the United States of America first. Why should Zimbabwe be affected by policies that benefit other countries because we are not poachers? We have managed to manage our resources and should benefit from it. The Hon. Minister said that we want to save for the world. I think we should have Zimbabwe first. I thank you.
HON. N. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. I thank the Hon. Senator for the supplementary question. I also want to appreciate the passion around this which I duly share with the Hon. Senator.
Maybe for completion, when I mentioned that CITES has benefited from us; I just wanted it to be clear that we are not just there to benefit, as you are correctly acknowledging that we have done so well in conserving our elephants. These are lessons that they have drawn from us and that is not the reason we are there, so to speak.
I just want to go back to what I highlighted on whether it is beneficiary for us to walk out from CITES. The reason of us walking out primarily is that CITES restricts us from trading and how we are restricted from trading is that they will control the market. You are not able to sell to that market but also they will put restrictions on your ability to sell. Zimbabwe walking out will just stand out there. Our primary markets are China and Japan, they will remain in CITES and will not be able to purchase as they are bound by CITES. So when you analyse the benefits of being there and being outside, it is much better to go in there, influence decision so that the market is opened for those countries that have demonstrated that they have conserved their wildlife so well and are able to maintain it and have been able to contain poaching. This is how we have so far been able to maintain our membership at CITES. I hope it tries to clarify Mr. President Sir, thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We have run out of time again, but before Senators Gweshe and Nkomo take the floor, let me use my discretion and say if your question will be a minute, I will allow you but if you exceed a minute elaborating then save your question for next time.
+HON. SEN. NKOMO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. We are currently receiving a lot of messages and news regarding criminal activities such as murder and stock theft. We are also approaching the festive season where crime rates escalate. In that regard, I would like to ask Hon. Minister, on measures that Government is taking to capacitate our police officers …
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, I would like you to simply go to your question and not to elaborate. May you just proceed to your question?
+HON. SEN. NKOMO: Thank you Mr. President. What is Government doing regarding the prevention of crime during the festive season? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): Thank you Hon. Indeed Hon. Sen. Nkomo, there are criminal activities. There is a lot of stock theft that is being perpetrated because we have a lot of young people who are delinquent. You find people who want to get rich without working for their riches.
As the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, we sit down to deliberate on these issues. Indeed, it is tough and a concern for us but the biggest challenge is, we see young people and even some adults who desire to get rich quick without working for their fortunes. You see some taking mutoriro and other drugs because they want to see beautiful things which they cannot afford and they become stressed.
Stock theft has been there since time immemorial but now it is more than it was in the past. However, we are on top of the situation. Stock theft is there, other criminal activities are there, and we are arresting people. We have been arresting perpetrators of different crimes. If you analyse the statistics, you will discover that indeed we are on top of the situation. Of course people steal but we are working as the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and we are in the process of empowering our police officers with in-service workshops and courses so that they are refreshed in their jobs. I thank you.
*HON. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government. There is a shortage of water in Harare. There is no water, you only find people getting water once per week. So, may you explain to the nation when this situation will be rectified? You will find people fetching water from Mukuvisi River.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTAND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President Sir. The issue regarding water is indeed of concern. However, because you mentioned Harare, I was not aware of the actual problem, so, may you allow me to go and research about the situation in Harare so that I will come back with your response to the august House. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 67.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA), the Senate adjourned at Four Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 27th September, 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 7th September, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put your phones on silent or better still switch off their phones. It is not acceptable to have your phones disturb the proceedings in the House.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 51ST PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the 51st Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in Malawi..
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
HON. SEN. MOHADI:
1.0 Introduction:
1.1 The 51st Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was hosted by the Parliament of Malawi from the 7th to 16th July 2022 under the theme: ‘Towards Energy Sufficiency, Sustainability and Self-Sufficiency in the SADC Region’.
1.2 The Zimbabwe delegation was led by Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe, and it comprised the following Members of Parliament: -
- Tambudzani Mohadi, Member of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture, Natural Resources and Infrastructure;
- Goodluck Kwaramba, Member of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development and Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (ZWPC);
- Dought Ndiweni, Executive Committee Member and Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights;
- Anele Ndebele, Member of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment; and,
- Paurina Mpariwa, Member of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
2.0 Official Opening Ceremony
2.1 In her welcome remarks, the Secretary-General of the SADC PF, Ms. Boemo Segkoma, stressed the need to heighten Intra-Africa trade through the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA). She also implored Member States to ensure that African women are empowered through entrepreneurship to tap into the envisaged economic gains offered by AfCFTA. She called on the Plenary Assembly to ensure that young girls and women are empowered through opportunities that are offered by an equitable society that does not discriminate based on gender or sex. Furthermore, the Secretary General concluded by tendering credentials of the delegates to the Plenary Assembly and invited the Hon, President of SADC PF to address the Assembly.
2.2 Hon. Christopher Mboso N’kodia Pwanga, the Speaker of the Parliament of DRC and President of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, expressed gratitude to H.E. Dr. Chakwera, President of the Republic of Malawi for the double achievement in the transformation of the SADC PF which was borne in Blantyre, Malawi in 1997, while the 41st SADC Summit resolved unanimously that SADC PF should transform into a Regional Parliament as one of the organs of SADC PF. On that score, the President of SADC PF commended the Chairman, His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus McCarthy Chakwera, for chairing the 41st SADC Summit which affirmed the Transformation Agenda of the SADC PF. Furthermore, he pleaded with H.E. President of Malawi to canvass his fellow Heads of State and governments during the 42nd Summit to be held in DRC by encouraging that Summit accedes to the amendment of Article 9 (1) of the SADC Treaty which makes it possible for the envisaged Regional Parliament to be one of its organs.
2.3 Solidarity Messages were presented to the SADC PF Plenary Assembly during the Official Opening Ceremony. The Right Honourable Speaker, Dr. Sidie Mohamed Tunis, Speaker of the ECOWAS Parliament, emphasised that private sector engagement is fundamental to achieving energy efficiency at regional level. He gave an example of the West African Power Pool (WAPP), as a clear manifestation of a successful public-private partnership initiative which covers 14 of the 15 ECOWAS countries. The WAPP programme promotes power generation and transmission infrastructure as well as coordinating power exchange among the ECOWAS Member States, thereby providing a regular and reliable energy source at a competitive cost for citizens of that region.
2.3.1 Dr. Sidie encouraged the SADC Region to leverage on private sector engagement as a powerful force in improving livelihoods, among African countries in search of accelerated socio-economic development.
2.4 The President of the Pan-African Parliament, Hon. Senator Chief Fortune Charumbira, saluted the support given by the SADC Region which propelled him to victory in the PAP Presidential elections held on 29th June 2022. He paid tribute to the region for standing firm and resolute in support of the principle of geographical rotational leadership which is one of the cornerstones of the African Union founding values. The PAP President also expressed gratitude for the support received from the Government of Zimbabwe led by H.E. Dr. President Mnangagwa. Furthermore, he saluted Honourable Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe, for being a father figure and a pillar of strength throughout the struggle for rotational leadership. He pledged to work hard to ensure that the continent is united under his leadership.
2.5 In delivering the keynote address, the Guest of Honour, His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus McCarthy Chakwera, President of the Republic of Malawi, noted that the theme was in tandem with the Maseru 1996 SADC Protocol on Energy that recognizes the criticality of energy in pursuit of the SADC vision of economic well-being and poverty eradication in Southern Africa through industrialisation anchored on adequate energy supply.
2.5.1 The President of Malawi expressed confidence that the deliberations of the Plenary Assembly would be guided by the SADC founding principles and decades-long quest to diversify energy sources and transition to green renewable energy.
2.5.2 The President of Malawi recalled that the Summit of Heads of State and Government had approved at the same venue, a proposal to transform the forum into a SADC Regional Parliament in order to make it a legislative body as opposed to being a mere deliberative body. In this regard, as the current Chairperson of SADC, he pledged his total support and commitment towards the transition of the forum into a Regional Parliament as affirmed during the 41st SADC Summit of Heads of State and Governments.
2.6 His Excellency President Chakwera lauded the inclusion of the SADC Model Law on Public Finance Management (PFM) on the programme as a commendable initiative by the SADC PF, as the PFM promotes prudential management of public finances. H.E. Dr. Chakwera concluded his address by wishing the 51st SADC PF Assembly constructive deliberations.
2.7 Hon. Catherine Gotani Hara, Speaker of the National Assembly of Malawi, expressed gratitude to the region for assembling in Malawi for a record fourth time in the life of the SADC PF. The Hon. Speaker urged the SADC PF Assembly to come up with robust recommendations on the way forward as she wished all delegates a hospitable stay during the Assembly period.
2.8 Hon. Seioso Joel Mohai, Member of the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) and Chief Whip, representing Speaker of the National Assembly of South Africa and the host of the 52nd SADC PF Plenary Assembly, Hon. Nosiviwe Mapisa Nqakula, graciously thanked Malawi, the Warm Heart of Africa for excellently hosting 51st Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC PF. He pledged South Africa’s readiness to welcome delegates to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Meeting to be held in the last quarter of 2022.
3.0 Zimbabwe’s Contribution to the Theme and the Key Deliverables During the Symposium
3.1 Hon. Anele Ndebele presented a paper on the theme on behalf of the Hon. Speaker and the delegation and noted that at the continental and global levels, energy was critical to the attainment of the global infrastructural development agenda.
3.2 The Plenary Assembly noted that the SADC region is endowed with abundant and diverse energy sources both renewable (RE) and non-renewable energy resources such as hydro, wind, solar, oil, gas, geothermal, nuclear and coal. There is thus, need to maximize the potential of regional renewable energy resources to ensure energy sustainability, security and self-sufficiency while decarbonising the energy sector.
3.3 Furthermore, it was noted that, despite the abundant energy resources in the region, access to electricity remains low in Member States notably in Malawi, Democratic Republic of Congo, Zambia, Mozambique and Madagascar. It is imperative that the SADC region exploits fully the sources of energy supply such as coal, hydro electricity and natural gas in countries such as Zimbabwe, DRC, Mozambique and Tanzania in order to circumvent the debilitating energy deficit experienced since 2007.
3.4 One of the main challenges facing the electricity sector was the insignificant capital injection into power generation projects from either the private or the public sector. Over the past decade, Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe, among others, have had to resort to load shedding as a stop gap measure to conserve energy. This can only be forestalled by capital injection from the private sector and/or through Public Private Partnership (PPPs).
3.5 The Symposium noted that vandalism of energy infrastructure such as transformers and copper wires has negative effects on uninterrupted energy supply in the region. This vandalism was economic sabotage. Member States should guard against this vandalism and ensure that stolen equipment from other Members States is not sold across borders in other countries within the region. Stiff penalties should be employed in all Member States.
3.6 It was also observed that the Russia/Ukraine conflict had created energy imbalance as the prices of gas and oil increased exponentially resulting in imported hyperinflation. It is, therefore, imperative that SADC countries come up with clear Independent Power Producers (IPPs) policies in order to mitigate against the energy deficit.
3.7 The SADC Region should leverage the Inga Hydropower project for regional benefits. The Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP) must take interest to unlock the potential of the Inga Hydropower project, as an integrated regional project that would result in no less than 50% electricity being supplied to the rest of Africa.
3.8 In this context, the role of Parliament is to promulgate laws that promote energy supply. In that respect, the Zimbabwean delegation stressed the need for Parliaments to ratify and domesticate the SADC Protocols on energy as well as continental and international energy protocols in order to achieve sustainability in the energy sector within the SADC region.
4.0 Statement by Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda on Decisions of the 144th Assembly of the Ipu and Related Meetings Held in Bali, Indonesia from 18 to 24 March 2022 and the 288th Session of the Executive Committee of the Ipu Held on 28th June, 2022 in Montevideo, Uruguay
4.1 The Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, reported on the outcomes of the 144th Assembly of the IPU and Related Meetings as well as the 288th Session of the Executive Committee Meeting.
4.2 He reported that the Hon. Duarte Pachecco, President of the IPU, had implored Parliaments to exercise their legislative, representative, oversight and budgetary roles to ensure that international agreements on climate change are fully implemented. Parliaments were also challenged to share best practices and proffer global solutions to this global climate change phenomenon.
4.3 The report informed the SADC PF Plenary Assembly that the preparations for the 145th Assembly to be held in Rwanda were well on course. In response, the DRC delegation indicated that their country would not attend the 145th IPU Assembly, because Rwanda had invaded the Eastern part of the DRC region. However, the Hon. Speaker of Zimbabwe advised that the invasion of DRC by Rwanda created an invidious position for the SADC Region because Rwanda was in the SADC Region fighting side by side with the Region under the SADC Mission in Mozambique (SAMIM), repelling insurgency and banditry in Northern Mozambique. Furthermore, the Hon. Speaker appealed to the DRC delegation to embrace the peace efforts which had commenced under the auspices of the Angolan President where both Presidents Félix Tshisekedi and Paul Kagame had been invited to begin the peace process regarding the DRC Eastern Region in the spirit and letter of the 2nd July 2022, Pretoria Agreement and the Sun City Agreement which was signed on 2nd April 2003, all executed in order to find lasting peace in the DRC. The Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe advocated for a diplomatic and peaceful resolution to the conflictual situation.
4.4 Meanwhile, Mr. Ope Pasquet, Acting President of the House of Representatives of Uruguay, applauded the IPU for establishing a Task Force on the Russian Federation/ Ukraine conflict in order to achieve dialogue through mediation between the two sides in the conflict. The region is represented on the Task Force by Speakers of the Parliaments of the Republic of South Africa and Namibia.
4.5 In that regard, the IPU President reported that the Task Force was scheduled to undertake missions to Moscow and Kiev following invitations from both Parliaments of the Russian Federation and Ukraine in July 2022. Hon. Speaker Mudenda emphasized that as the Task Force embarks on its mission, it must be guided by the principle of neutrality and not to be dissuaded by the United States of America’s posture of preventing African States from siding with Russia through its Countering Malign Russian Activities in Africa Act promulgated on 22nd April 2022.
5.0 Adoption of the Report of the Executive Committee and the Treasurer’s Report
5.1 The Executive Committee (EXCO) tabled its report for consideration and adoption by the 51st Plenary Assembly meeting. The EXCO of the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC PF) had met virtually via the zoom video conferencing platform on 11th March 2022 and again on 10th June 2022.
5.2 The Report expressed gratitude to His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus MacCarthy Chakwera, for officially opening the 51st Plenary Assembly Session and to the Government and People of Malawi for the warm hospitality.
5.3 The Plenary Assembly reaffirmed the clarion call to Speakers/ Presiding Officers of Member Parliaments to continue lobbying Heads of State and Ministers of Foreign Affairs to support the adoption of the amended SADC Treaty at the 42nd SADC Summit to be held in the DRC. The report emphasised and approved the need for further lobbying initiatives by the Strategic Lobbying Team on the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament to ensure that a two-thirds majority of countries is reached when the Amendment to the SADC Treaty is considered by the 42nd Summit.
5.4 The Plenary Assembly validated the results of the elections of the Chairpersons and Vice-Chairpersons of the RWPC and Standing Committees for 2022 to 2024 and wished the Committees a fruitful tenure of office.
5.5 The Plenary Assembly adopted the decision to participate in the collaborative event twinning the G7 Global Initiative and the SADC PF aimed at sensitising Parliamentarians on the production and transit of chemical waste and biohazards in Africa and the potential risks posed to the environment. The event will take place in Windhoek, Namibia, from the 27th to 29th October 2022.
5.6 The Plenary Assembly noted the need for National Parliaments to second staff on full-time basis to the forum, whose employment costs would be borne by Member Parliaments given the prevailing budgetary constraints being faced by the forum.
5.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the need to incorporate best practices enunciated by the SADC Model Law on Public Finance Management. The Plenary Assembly commended the PFM Model Law as the first normative legislative instrument to ensure that PFM reflects commitments made at the regional level with regards to prudent management of the national purse in Member States.
5.8 The Plenary Assembly adopted the proposal for the Forum to participate in upcoming Election Observation Missions (EOMs), particularly in the SADC Region, to avoid losing observer status with some Electoral Commissions. The Plenary Assembly expressed disquiet over having the Commonwealth and the European Union observing elections in the region whilst the forum is visibly not represented.
5.9 The Plenary Assembly exhorted the Speaker of the National Assembly of Seychelles, Hon. Roger Mancienne, to actively secure an appointment for the High-Level Lobby Team to visit the Parliament of the Union of Comoros to entice them to join the forum.
6.0 MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING THE 51st PLENARY ASSEMBLY MEETINGS
6.1 Motion to Amend the Constitution of the SADC Parliamentary Forum to Provide For The Establishment of The SADC Parliamentary Forum and its Successors Trust
6.1.1 Plenary Assembly adopted the constitutional amendments to incorporate the provision to establish the SADC PF Successor’s Trust as a vehicle for SADC PF resource mobilisation.
6.2 Adoption of the Model Law on Public Finance Management
6.2.1 The Model Law on Public Finance Management seeks to cure a multiplicity of legal and regulatory gaps in the Financial Management Systems across SADC Member States that impede sound public financial management.
6.2.2 The Plenary Assembly Session adopted the Model Law on Public Financial Management (2022), which aims at good governance, accountability and transparency in the deployment of scarce public resources.
6.3 Report of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources
6.3.1 Plenary endorsed the call for SADC governments to strengthen agricultural data collection and management systems to ensure that all Malabo Declarations, goals and targets are met.
6.3.2 The adopted report called on SADC Parliaments to continue capacitating Members of Parliaments with the necessary knowledge to effectively participate in the budget process, and notably contribute on issues relating to public spending in the agriculture sector.
6.3.3 The report implored SADC countries to recognise the critical contribution that women and youths make towards sustainable agriculture in the region. Consequently, a call was made for Member States to set aside a specific quota in their national budgets to ensure food security is achieved in the SADC region.
6.3.4 Plenary Assembly adopted the proposal to leverage on the Inga Dam Project, as a regional intervention which is able to provide electricity to the entire region and facilitate large-scale farming.
6.4 Report of the Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights
6.4.1 The adopted motion encouraged Member States to finance and participate in Election Observation Missions (EOMs), particularly in the SADC Region.
6.4.2 The report recalled that the SADC PF has been known for producing very incisive electoral documents including the Model Law on Elections and Normative Standards on the Democratic Elections, which aim at facilitating the holding of democratic elections in the region. The Plenary Assembly agreed that it would be remiss for the region’s story on elections to be told by Commonwealth Observer Missions or the EU Observer Missions, especially in its own backyard.
7.0 Resolutions and Way Forward
7.1 There is need to create conducive legal frameworks, policies and strategies that are key to unlocking the energy potential in the SADC Region.
7.2 Biomass, oil, gas and coal dominate the current energy sources in the SADC Region, thus Member States are vulnerable to external shocks and climate change. SADC Member States must embrace renewable energy resources for their energy production. Furthermore, Member States can benchmark against the achievements made by Malawi in the removal of VAT and duty taxes on solar technologies and other renewable energy technologies which has resulted in the addition of 80 megawatts of solar power in the last nine months prior to the 51st Plenary Assembly meeting.
7.3 There is need for the integration of the regional electricity supply network to ensure that Member States can take advantage of economies of scale and reduce the cost of electricity infrastructure development.
7.4 The Plenary Assembly resolved to act against vandalism of energy infrastructure such as theft of transformers and copper wires that affects the energy security situation in the region. Such theft of public assets is economic sabotage. Member States should guard against this vandalism and ensure that stolen equipment from other Members States is not sold in their countries. Punitive laws should be enacted to curtail the vandalism of these public assets.
7.5 The SADC bloc needs to work together to ensure that the Inga Dam project is fully implemented as a sustainable intervention towards regional energy self-sufficiency, if not continentally. The Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP) must therefore, take an interest in unlocking the potential of the Inga Hydro power project.
7.6 Regional Parliaments should organise All Stakeholder Workshops to facilitate the speedy implementation of resolutions from Inter-Parliamentary Organisations, especially on the Model Laws adopted by the Plenary Assemblies of the SADC PF.
7.7 Through its Standing Committee Reports and submissions from its thematic organs, the Plenary Assembly adopted resolutions aimed at supporting the implementation of regional commitments in view of heightening need for gender equality, youth empowerment, enhanced agriculture, natural resource governance, anti-corruption and the need for pragmatic domestic resource mobilization. It is imperative to have cohesion in tackling the abovementioned subject areas to ensure that they dovetail with broader goals such as the Africa Agenda 2063, Ministerial commitments and the attainment of Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).
7.8 The 51st Plenary Assembly Session unanimously adopted the SADC Model Law on Public Financial Management (PFM). This constituted the fifth Model Law developed by the forum following those on HIV and AIDS (2008), Child Marriage (2016), Elections (2019) and Gender Based Violence (2021). There is need to scale up momentum towards the domestication of these various Model Laws already adopted by the Plenary Assembly.
7.9 The Plenary Assembly reiterated the need for all stakeholders to join hands to support the transformation of the forum into a Regional Parliament which has already been approved as a matter of policy by the 41st SADC Summit held in Lilongwe, Malawi in August 2021, and to ensure that the remaining legal steps are carried to the ultimate end. In this regard, the Plenary Assembly resolved to intensify lobbying efforts at national and regional levels to ensure that the stipulated majority is obtained at Summit level to adopt the Amendment to the SADC Treaty and the Protocol establishing the SADC Parliament.
7.10 The Plenary Assembly resolved to fully implement its Strategic Plan and ensure that the region becomes a vibrant powerhouse for socio-economic development and democratization through parliamentary initiatives that materially advance the standard of living and quality of lives of SADC citizens.
7.11 The Plenary Assembly stressed the need for Parliaments across the region to continue raising concern on the negative effects of destabilizing forces such as the conflict between DRC and Rwanda in the Eastern DRC as well as the banditry in Northern Mozambique. In respect of the decision by DRC not to attend the 145th Assembly of the IPU to be held in Rwanda, the Plenary Assembly pledged to advocate for dialogue and cessation of hostilities in the Eastern part of DRC, and that Rwanda be persuaded to disengage from further aggression.
7.12 The full dossier of the Plenary Assembly resolutions will be availed by the SADC Parliamentary Forum in due course for consideration by Portfolio and Thematic Committees of the Parliament of Zimbabwe.
8.0 Conclusion
8.1 The Plenary Assembly concluded by calling on Member Parliaments to continue intensifying collaborative efforts that ensure self-sufficiency and sustenance in the energy sector within the SADC region.
8.2 Parliament of Zimbabwe continues to play a highly effective leading role in the Transformation Agenda as the holders of the Chairpersonship of the Strategic Lobby Team of Hon. Speakers on the transformation of the Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament. There is need to continue lobbying Heads of State and governments on the Transformation Agenda, and in particular the Amendment of the Treaty to officially recognise the SADC Parliament as an organ of SADC.
8.3 Parliament of Zimbabwe commits itself to the full implementation of the resolutions of the Plenary Assembly which shall be shared among all Members of Parliament to facilitate action by different Portfolio and Thematic Committees.
8.4 Parliament of Zimbabwe commits itself to ensuring that resources are mobilised towards the establishment of the SADC PF and its Successor’s Trust.
8.5 The 52nd Plenary Assembly of the SADC PF will be hosted by the Republic of South Africa, who have pledged to choreograph a memorable hosting.
8.6 Finally and notably, the Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, presented a well-rehearsed infographic treatise on the IPU and all Zimbabwean delegates avidly contributed to the proceedings of the 51st Plenary Assembly Meeting of the SADC PF. Furthermore, the Plenary Assembly observed a minute of silence on the passing on of former President José Eduardo dos Santos, of the Republic of Angola in recognition of his sterling leadership in the struggle to liberate Angola from the shackles of Portuguese colonialism. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Date to resume: Thursday, 7th September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SE. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 2 to 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICE OF COUNTER TERRORISM HIGH LEVEL CONFERENCE HELD IN ITALY
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Mr. President, I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the delegation to the United Nations Office at Counter Terrorism High Level Conference on Parliamentary Support to victims of terrorism held at Plazzo Mentecitorio-Nuova Aula Dei Gruppi Parliamentari Rome, Italy from 7th to 8th June, 2022.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Mr. President. I wish to present a report on the delegation to the United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism to the High Level Conference of Parliamentary support to Victims of Terrorism which was held in Palazzo, Montecitoria in Rome in June this year.
Introduction
The United Nations Office of Counter Terrorism (UNOCT) Programme Office on Parliamentary Engagement, in cooperation with the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCEPA), the Parliamentary Assembly of the Mediterranean (PAM), the African Parliamentary Union (APU) and the Shura Council of the State of Qatar, organized a High-Level Conference on Parliamentary support to victims of terrorism. The conference took place at Palazzo Montecitorio - Nuova Aula dei Gruppi Parlamentari in Rome, Italy from 7 to 8 June 2022. The Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security, Hon. Sen. Dr. David P. Parirenyatwa, Member of the African Parliamentary Union (APU) Executive, Hon Tafanana Zhou, MP and Ms. T. Sukuta, Researcher for the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security, attended the conference.
The High-Level Conference brought together various stakeholders, including Parliamentarians, representatives of the United Nations (UN) entities, leading experts, members of regional Parliamentary Assemblies, victims of terrorism, victims’ associations, and civil society organizations, to discuss the best way for Parliamentarians to address the rights and needs of victims of terrorism and to find tangible legislative measures that can be implemented. The 2019 UN Assembly Resolution 73/305 and the Seventh Review Resolution of the UN Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy adopted in June 2021, urges Member States to strengthen their efforts to support victims and this support ranges from advocacy and solidarity to more practical measures such as capacity building and technical assistance.
Background
Terrorism and violent extremism remain an increasing global threat, which cannot be addressed effectively by military operations and security measures alone. They require a collaborative and multi-dimensional approach amongst the entire international community. Over the past few years, the international community has made real progress in upholding the rights and supporting the needs of victims of terrorism through the adoption of key UN General Assembly resolutions, by providing victims with a greater platform to share their experiences, as well as by placing victims at the forefront of United Nations counter-terrorism efforts. Victims of terrorist acts frequently suffer severe, multiple and life-altering injuries and trauma, akin to harm suffered by victims of grave human rights violations and international crimes. In addition to other forms of reparation, compensation for harm suffered, rehabilitation, and provision of adequate services can play an important role in enabling victims to move on with their lives.
The Main Objective of the Conference
The objective of the High-Level Conference was to find ways for Parliamentarians to address the rights and needs of victims of terrorism and to identify tangible and impactful legislative measures that can be implemented to enact positive change and create lasting impact at the national level as well as within communities.
Opening Remarks
Mr. Gennaro Migliore, PAM President, Mr. Ettore Rosato, Vice-President of the Italian Chamber of Deputies, Mr. Mauro Miedico, Deputy Director of the UNOCT, Mr. Mohamed Ali Houmed, President of the African Parliamentary Union, and Mr. Reinhold Lopatka, Vice-President of OSCE PA, addressed the Opening Session of the Conference.
Remarks by H.E Mr. Ettore Rosato, Vice President of the Chamber of Deputies of Italy.
His Excellency, Mr. Rosatto asserted that the threat of terrorism is still present in Italy and in the minds of its citizens. He highlighted that with regards to the latest attack in Nigeria, nations need to do more and assist in the fight against terrorism. On the Ukrainian war, he noted that he did not expect Europe to have such a war which is destabilising Europe and changing international relations. He reiterated that Parliamentarians should take action and focus on appropriate legislative tools to face this hideous act of terrorism. His Excellency, Mr. Rosatto affirmed that it is important to strengthen cooperation between Europe, Africa and the Mediterranean, and that there is need for economic, political and cultural collaborations. He further highlighted the importance to come up with common actions to support the victims of terrorism.
Remarks by Mr. Mauro Miedico, Deputy Director, Chief, Special Projects and Innovation Branch (SPIB), UNOCT.
Mr. Miedico, highlighted that they have developed a number of programmes to assist Member States in the fight against terrorism and to add a parliamentary dimension in the fight against terrorism which is essential in all areas of work, the Model Legislative Provision was developed. He noted that the Model Legislative Provision was developed over the last one and half years and was launched in February 2022 in New York. He described that the purpose of developing model legislative provisions was two-fold. First, to serve as a model for the review of existing laws and procedures related to victims of terrorism in line with recent advances on this subject matter, and to support the development of legislation where legislative gaps exist. Secondly, to systematize and promote the exchange of information regarding existing good practices. He asserted that the development of model legislative provisions was to help Member States draw attention to the urgency of taking concrete steps to protect, assist and support victims of terrorism.
Remarks by H.E. Mr. Gennaro Migliore, President, Parliamentary Assembly of the Mediterranean and Member of the Chamber of Deputies of Italy.
In his remarks, H.E Mr. Migliore highlighted that terrorism is a multi-dimensional challenge, and providing concrete support should be top priority. He noted the need to adopt resolutions so as to harmonize legislation and come up with internal instruments that support victims of terrorism. He further noted that the Nigerian attack affects everybody, hence it was critical to observe that for each victim of terrorism, the sorrow that is felt is the same, and that there is no nationality for victims of horrendous activities. He stated that there is need to rehabilitate and protect women and children. H.E, Mr. Migliore is of the view that civil society should be involved in the repatriation of victims and that there is need to raise awareness on conditions of victims, especially in camps. He emphasized that governments should come up with policies to support victims of terrorism and ensure access to justice. He stated that Parliamentary support is essential and therefore, Parliaments should ensure human rights compliance in the criminal justice system. He also reiterated that they have been several terrorist attacks in Italy and the government had come up with strong legislative measures to protect victims in that country.
Remarks by Hon. Abdellah bin Nacer Alsubaie, Member of the Shura Council of the State of Qatar.
In his remarks, Hon Alsubaie alluded to the fact that every year terrorist attacks kill and injure innocent people. To that end the international community has to get together to counter terrorism and put in place necessary precautions and measures to protect victims of terrorism. He asserted the necessity for parliaments to create legislative provisions to support and protect the needs of victims and share best practices in countering terrorism. He further highlighted the need for Parliamentarians to cooperate in countering terrorism thereby curbing violent extremism. He applauded UNOCT, UN Drugs and Crimes for working very hard in combating terrorism.
Remarks by H.E. Mohamed Ali Houmed, President, African Parliamentary Union and Speaker of the National Assembly of Djibouti.
His Excellency emphasized the need for coordinated efforts in the fight against terrorism and that international and regional support is required in supporting victims of terrorism. He stated that it is important to find the best ways to support victims of terrorism, show solidarity and enact laws to support such victims. He noted that laws did exist but lacked enforcement. He asserted the importance of cherishing memories of the victims and to set platforms that allow for the exchange of their experiences and ideas. Further to that, he emphasized the need to rehabilitate, protect and give assistance to victims.
Remarks by Hon. Reinhold Lopatka, Vice President and Chair of the Ad Hoc Committee on Counter Terrorism, Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe and Member of the National Council of Austria.
In his remarks, Hon Loptaka emphatically stressed that in the fight against terrorism, it is important to have the victims in mind bearing the fact that terrorism affects their lives forever. He highlighted that involvement of victims in the fight against terrorism is key as they contribute in fighting the impunity of terrorism, assist in developing counter terrorism measures and are powerful and credible messengers and their experiences put a human face to the impact of terrorism. He asserted that a lot has to be done in social media so as to change the narratives of fear and hatred. He elaborated that it is important for Parliaments to work with civil and international organizations in supporting victims of terrorism. He stressed that Parliaments are responsible for shaping legislation and policy frameworks, have influence over the budget, oversee government actions not to use terrorism against the people and therefore are in a position to support the implementation of resolutions that support victims of terrorism.
Keynote Addresses
Among the Keynote Speakers were Mr. Tarek Noseir, Member of the Arab Parliament and Member of the House of Representatives of Egypt, Mr. Gonzalo de Salazar, Deputy Head of Mission of Spain to Italy, Mr. Vittorio Occorsio, Founder of the “Vittorio Occorsio” Foundation, and Ms. Jacqueline Odoul, Chair of the IPU High-Level Advisory Group on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism.
Sen. Tarek Noseir, Member of Arab Parliament and Member of the Senate of Egypt.
Sen Nosier elaborated the importance of reflecting on the role that can be played by Parliaments in combating terrorism, and that is of creating national policies. He therefore called upon nations to show their commitment to support victims through the enactment of legislation. He emphasized that victim voices should be heard, and protected and the need for Parliaments to come up with best practices and adopt a comprehensive vision to deal with the needs of the victims.
Mr. Gonzalo de Salazar, Deputy Head of Mission of Spain to Italy (on behalf of the Group of Friend of Victims of Terrorism).
Mr. Salazar emphasized the need of putting victims of terrorism at the forefront as they are vulnerable targets. He further stated that the Group of Friends seeks to promote a comprehensive approach towards the promotion and protection of human rights of the victims of terrorism and to advocate their diverse needs in the short, medium and long-term. The group also ensures that victims voices are heard, their rights protected, and their recovery and rehabilitation needs addressed.
Mr. Vittorio Occorsio, Vittorio Occorsio Foundation, Italy
In his address, Mr. Occorsio highlighted the importance of the memory of victims and stated that the Parliament of Italy approved a law for the commemoration of victims of terrorism and a National Day of Terrorism was established.
Hon. Professor Jacqueline Odoul, Chair, IPU High Level Advisory Group on Countering Terrorism and Violent Extremism and Member of the National Assembly of Kenya.
Hon. Odoul, spoke about the importance of systematizing and promoting the exchange of existing good practices amongst parliaments. She highlighted the need to take necessary steps to protect and promote the interests of the victims of terrorism, especially championing the needs of women and girls. She asserted the need of coming up with a clear mechanism to deal with compensation to victims.
The Model Legislative Provisions (MLPs) to Support and Protect the Rights and Needs of Victims of Terrorism
The High-level conference included a presentation of the Model Legislative Provisions, to support and protect the rights and needs of Victims of Terrorism, which is a tool for parliamentarians jointly developed by United Nations Office of Counter-Terrorism/United Nations Counter-Terrorism Centre (UNOCT/UNCCT), United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), and the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). It was launched virtually on 4 February 2022.
The provisions are comprehensive and underline the need for States to follow a victim-centric approach in addressing the rights and needs of victims. The Model Legislative Provisions are intended to assist Member States in protecting the rights and supporting the needs of victims of terrorism in their national laws. Their purpose is twofold:
- First, to serve as a model for the review and modernisation of existing laws and procedures related to victims of terrorism and the drafting of legislation where legislative exists;
- Secondly, to systematise existing good practices and promote the harmonisation of legislation to support and protect victims of terrorism internationally, in line with recent advances on this topic.
The Model Legislative Provisions are based on the existing international normative frameworks pertaining to victims of crimes, gross human rights violations and serious violations of international humanitarian law. They aim at ensuring equal treatment among all victims and are geared towards addressing their needs as a result of the harm suffered, without distinction as to the root causes of their harm.
The provisions include fundamental rights of victims which must be observed by nations. These include inter alia:
- The right to necessary assistance and support (medical, psychological, social, and material);
- The right to adequate, effective, and prompt reparation (including restitution, compensation, satisfaction, and truth), cessation, and guarantees of non-repetition;
- The right to protection of physical and psychological integrity, privacy and reputation; the right to access to justice in all criminal, civil and administrative proceedings and processes related to being a victim;
- The right to access to information about the above rights and remedies.
Session I: The Role of Parliamentarians in Ensuring a Tailored Response to Address Large Scale Displacement and Violations of Rights to Livelihood, Shelter, Education, Healthcare and Liberty of Victims of Terrorism.
During the first session, panellists discussed the role of parliamentarians in ensuring a tailored response to address large scale displacement and violations of rights to livelihood, shelter, education, healthcare, and liberty. These included:
- Quick responses after a terrorist attack-timely action can prevent traumatic stress and disability effectively.
- Immediate psychological support-rehabilitation services.
- Removal of barriers within the government in accessing important documentation for victims.
- Mechanisms to facilitate the life of a victim by reducing bureaucratic channels.
- Establishment of one stop centres for victims of terrorism.
- Awareness of the mental damage caused by terrorism, this can be attained through education.
- Reconciliation with religious groups and the society.
- Protection and respect of human rights.
- Development of a legislative process.
- Establishment of associations of victims for support services and victim protection units.
- Social recognition.
- National Day of Remembrance of victims of terrorism-preservation of memory.
- Compensation and reparation to victims of terrorism including their families.
Session II: The Role of Civil Society Groups and Organisations in Complementing State and Parliamentary Efforts in Supporting Victims of terrorism and Ensuring Access to Justice.
The second session focused on the role of civil society groups and organizations in complementing state and parliamentary efforts in supporting victims of terrorism and ensuring access to justice. It was discussed that civil society organisations are the cornerstone of upholding the rule of law and implementing fundamental rights. It was stated that they are an integral part of victim support as they ensure that victims’ rights are exercised. They play an important role in oversight, carry out important advocacy work, bring strategic cases to courts, and ensure that national and international judgments create a legal framework for victims’ rights. It was highlighted that civil society organizations are better placed to provide the representation and inclusion of vulnerable victims, children, women or the disabled, and work to ensure that decision-makers take all victims of all crimes into account when developing and adopting laws or policies. Fundamentally, civil society organizations provide psycho-social support to victims.
The Work Done and New Initiatives by UNOCT and Parliamentary Assemblies to Enhance Parliamentary Response in Supporting Victims of Terrorism and the Role They Can Play in Reviewing and Reformulating New Legislation Based on MLPs.
The work done to enhance Parliamentary response in supporting victims of terrorism was highlighted. The Draft Resolution on Victims of Terrorism that would be discussed at the upcoming OSCE PA’s Annual Session was introduced. The resolution calls upon OSCE participating States to adopt comprehensive assistance plans and to establish a permanent co-ordination body for victims of terrorism. It is hoped that this resolution will further advance the international counter-terrorism framework, providing clear guidance and heightened standards for participating States in supporting and upholding the rights of victims.
Session III: Incorporating Protection and National Support, Including Material and Social Needs, For Victims of Terrorism in State Counter Terrorism Strategies and Legislation.
Session three focused on incorporating protection and national support, including material and social needs, for victims of terrorism in counter-terrorism strategies and legislation. These included nations ensuring inter alia adequate budget allocation for victims, critical psycho-social support, procedures that facilitate immediate access to medical services, strengthening victim support services, access to education, justice and information.
Session IV: Good Practices and Lessons Learnt on Support to Victims of Terrorism on the Local and National Levels and Importance of Systematising and Promoting the Exchange of Information Regarding Existing Good Practices.
In Session Four, panelists shared good practices and lessons learnt on support to victims of terrorism on the local and national levels and the importance of systematizing and promoting the exchange of information regarding existing good practice. It was discussed that in order to play a crucial role in efforts to counter terrorism, nations needed to adopt good practices that meet international obligations while ensuring the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms. These good practices inter alia are, enacting a legal framework, access to justice, the right to reparation, education, prompt and efficient assistance, recognition through medals, protection of the physical and psychological well-being of the victim, relationship between the victim and media to avoid secondary victimisation and setting up of hotlines and websites to keep the victims up to date. It was highlighted that good practices are therefore aimed at assisting nations to establish and enhance policies, laws and institutional capacity to provide improved outcomes for victims, while fully respecting the rule of law and rights of victims.
Victims of Terrorism.
Victims of terrorism have a central role to play in ensuring effective investigation and prosecution of terrorist cases and contribute to collecting evidence. Therefore, one of the aims of the conference was to make the victims voices heard and disseminate their shared experiences. It was also to enable their positive values to be understood and their role empowered to use as an effective tool to make people aware of the dangers of terrorism and violent extremism. Victims have become representatives of what a terrorist act implies for the lives of ordinary citizens and victims of terrorism are considered credible voices on the painful and human consequences of violent extremism and terrorism. Victims are therefore the representatives of and ambassadors for public memory. This voice can offer a strong narrative for the purpose of creating awareness of radicalisation and preventing violent extremism.
Expectations Raised by Victims of Terrorism.
- Victims’ voices initiative programmes that show victims’ stories as they are most impactful when shared directly by victims, in their own words. This can be done through a global platform that amplifies victim voices, for example handbooks and documentary series. Ultimately, the stories aim to raise a collective consciousness and to create awareness about the importance of preventing terrorist attacks and the ensuing emergence of new victims.
- Honouring of Remembrance Day of victims and commemoration campaigns that share the intimate memories of the victims of terrorism.
- Establishment of a centre for victims of terrorism that provides education and training.
- Immediate access to medical and rehabilitative services.
- Empowerment of victims of terrorism.
Outcomes.
- The Conference gave the opportunity to Parliamentarians and victims to contribute to global efforts to combat terrorism and prevent violent extremism through decisive action and practical assistance to people who have become victims of terrorist attacks.
- One of the main topics of the conference was the discussion of the role of various non-governmental structures and civil society organizations in complementing State and parliamentary efforts to support victims of terrorism and ensure access to justice.
- The participants shared best practices in supporting victims of terrorism at the local and national levels and recognized the importance of systematizing and encouraging the exchange of information on existing best practices in this area.
- The conference recorded rich exchanges of experiences and good practices in terms of administrative, financial, legal, social and moral assistance as well as memorial duty towards the victims of terrorism.
- A follow up congress on support to victims of terrorism to be held in September 2022, on how parliamentarians can further the rights and needs of the victims of terrorism.
Measures Aimed at Supporting Victims of Terrorism Suggested by Parliamentarians.
The following pragmatic interventions and recommendations were suggested regarding the victims:
- There is need for the promotion of resolutions specifically dedicated to victims.
- There is need for the creation of national systems of assistance which would promote the needs of victims of terrorism and their families and facilitate the normalization of their lives.
- Member States are encouraged to strengthen the implementation of national legislation and policies that support and protect victims of acts of terrorism and this can be done in close partnership with governments, victims’ organizations and civil society groups.
- There is need to enhance the capacity of governments and other stakeholders to increase support for victims of terrorism.
- There is need to promote a specific mechanism in the assemblies, that is, a detailed questionnaire prepared by each assembly that can be used to gather information.
- There is need to support the work of requesting parliaments.
- Member States were encouraged to hold dialogues with civil society organizations so as to enable parliamentary action to put voices of the victims on the platform.
- There is need to extend broader protection to victims.
- Coordination of all law enforcement and criminal justice agencies involved at all stages of victim’s interaction with the criminal justice system is required.
- There is need is need for victim sensitive approaches when dealing with victims.
- Member States were urged to ensure that procedures regulating victims’ status, participation and protection in court proceedings are in place.
- There is need for timely and fair restitution, reparation and compensation of victims.
- There is need for the media to play an active role in raising awareness on the vulnerability of victims, especially in avoiding secondary victimization.
Recommendations by the Zimbabwe Delegation.
- Perceiving that Zimbabwe may currently not be directly experiencing terrorist threats, the Cabo Delgado case is a cause for serious concern. The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs by 31 August 2022, need to adopt an inclusive, whole-of-government and holistic approach that includes cooperation with various stakeholders such as civil society organisations in countering terrorism and support victims of terrorism. Strong emphasis should therefore be placed on strengthening and implementing counter terrorism legislation and policies that support victims of terrorism.
- The Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage should introduce border guards and strengthen border patrols by 31 August 2022, especially at the Zimbabwe – Mozambique border.
- The Zimbabwean Government, by 31 August 2022 should aim at strengthening its relations with other regional and international bodies in fighting terrorism together and supporting victims of terrorism as well as enhancing collaboration on border management
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must allocate adequate funds to the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage to enable the ministries to strengthen surveillance mechanisms at border posts by 31 December 2022.
Closing Remarks.
It was affirmed that there is need to promote the role of civil society groups and organizations in complementing State and parliamentary efforts in supporting victims of terrorism and ensuring access to justice. It was further alluded that we must not forget that Parliamentarians not only hold the power of legislation, but of oversight as well. It is therefore up to Parliamentarians to make sure that there are laws and policies that promote the rights of the victims in countering terrorism. Concerns around the war in Ukraine were also raised, and how the resulting instability could stimulate local crises, creating conditions for radicalization.
Conclusion.
The delegation received pointed capacity building on counter-terrorism strategy and legislation to support the victims of terrorism, including the recent measures adopted to prevent radicalization. Prevention was identified as the key measure, with recent efforts focusing on combating cyber terrorism and online radicalization as new and pressing threats. The need to ensure memory, dignity and justice to all victims was repeatedly stressed. The conference concluded with a call for increased joint and multilateral action at regional and international levels to address global terrorist threats and a call for concrete recommendations and regional plans of action through the Parliamentary Assemblies, and lastly a follow up Congress to be held in September 2022 on the resolutions for the support of victims of terrorism. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th September, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Order of the Day, Number 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 6 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th September, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE STREETS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the vulnerable children living in the streets.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NKOMO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th September, 2022.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
RECOMMITAL OF THE FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It has just been brought to our attention by our legal experts that yesterday when the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development made the proposed amendments to Clauses 2 and 3, it was done after the Committee Stage. Therefore, it was not recorded in the Hansard during the Committee Stage. In terms of Standing Orders and our law, it has to be done in the Committee Stage and we will have to recommit the Finance Bill. The Minister will then present the amendments and we will have met the full legal requirements of Parliamentary procedures in terms of passing the Bills. We are waiting for the notes, so you can have copies of the amendments.
Senate business temporarily suspended awaiting copies of amendments.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, following the approval of the Finance Bill, [H. B. 9A, 2022] by the Senate yesterday. It has become necessary to recommit Clauses 2 and 3 for reconsideration by the whole House.
The reason is to make sure that there is no confusion in the interpretation by our tax practitioners at ZIMRA and other institutions. I therefore move that Clauses 2 and 3 that had been put and agreed to be recommitted for consideration by the Committee of the whole House.
RECOMMITAL STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B.9A, 2022]
House in Committee
On Clause 2:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Chairman, Clause 2 which is linked to Clause 3 and to an extent Clause 8 seeks to review the local tax free threshold on employee income from ZWL25 000.00 to ZWL75 000.00 per month or ZWL300 000.00 to ZWL900 000.00 per annum which cumulatively translates to ZWL375 000.00 for the last five months of the year of assessment beginning 1st August, 2022. The amendment to ZWL75 000.00 per month for the remaining five months is in response to representations by Members of Parliament.
Notwithstanding the above, the monetary amounts in Clause 2 and also on Table 3 which is linked to the Clause which indicates a tax free threshold of ZWL900 000.00 are not consistent with the interpretation of the tax law which distinguishes between the tax year of assessment and the fiscal year. Clauses 2 and 3 should read concurrently with Clause 8 which provides for tax periods of assessment during the fiscal year 2022. The first year of assessment begins 1st January, 2022 and ends on 31st July, 2022; while the second tax year of assessment covers the period 1st August to 31st December, 2022.
Accordingly, the proposed local currency tax free threshold of ZWL75 000.00 per month, as approved by the National Assembly, should cover the period commencing 1st August to 31st December, 2022. In aggregate terms, the tax free threshold for the five months period should thus be ZWL375 000.00 instead of ZWL900 000.00 as it appears in the Bill approved by the House of Assembly. Therefore, the other tax bands on both Clauses 2 and 3 should accordingly be adjusted in line with the revised tax free threshold to end at ZWL5million for the remaining five months of the year, above which the marginal tax rate of 40% applies.
The revised table on, I know Mr. Chairman, we are considering clause by clause, Clause 2 but maybe you will allow me to read the remainder of my statement as follows – which is the revised tax table on Clause 3, which is linked to Clause 2 should thus be as follows, given that Hon. Members have the document in front of them …
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Order, order Hon. Minister, we do it clause by clause. We have just taken a break by the Hon. Minister to ensure that we consider clause by clause, not omnibus. So we are only dealing with Clause 2, then we go to Clause 3.
Amendments to Clause 2 recommended to the National Assembly.
Clause 2, as amended, recommended to the National Assembly.
On Clause 3:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): The revised tax table on Clause 3 should read as follows; the 1st band of up to 300 000 to ZWL500 000 with a tax rate of 0%. The 2nd band of ZWL375 001 to 715 000 with a specific percentage of 20%; the 3rd band of ZWL715 801 to 1, 3 million with a tax band of 25%; 4th band of 1 300 001 to 2, 4 million with a tax rate of 30%, the 5th band of ZWL2 400 001 up to 5 million with a tax rate of 35% and finally, ZWL5 000 001 with a tax rate of 40%.
Amendments to Clause 3 recommended to the National Assembly.
Clause 3, as amended, recommended to the National Assembly.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE), the House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th September, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES AND WEARING OF MASKS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Firstly, your gadgets and telephones must be put on silent or better switch them off. Secondly, it is still mandatory in this country to wear masks when you are indoors. Hon Senators are reminded to put on their masks
SECOND READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, on 28th July 2022, I presented to this august House the 2022 Supplementary Estimates amounting to ZWL$929.3 billion that is Vote Appropriation amount of ZWL851.4 billion and Constitutional and Statutory appropriations (Pensions, Interest and inter-governmental fiscal transfers) totaling ZWL$77.8 billion.
The vote appropriations of ZWL$851.4 billion are broken down as follows:
- Employment Costs ZWL428 billion
- Use of Goods and Services 8 billion
- Capital Expenditure 5 billion
Mr. President, the purpose of this Bill is to give effect to the Supplementary 2022 expenditures that were presented to the National Assembly.
I seek approval for a supplementary budget of ZWL$851.4 billion to cater for additional provisions and reforms mainly related to the following areas:
- Stimulation of production, targeting agriculture, industry and other productive sectors;
- Food security, including grain procurement to mitigate the effect of drought conditions and support towards agricultural inputs.
- Welfare of civil servants and pensioners;
- Social services and delivery and social protection;
- Infrastructure and utilities;
- Constitutional requirements, including transfer to provincial councils and local authorities and support for governance institutions;
- Support for Government operations including the salaries of Members of this august House.
The supplementary expenditures being proposed are, however, designed in a way that they are in line with increased revenues and will be implemented without compromising fiscal discipline and upsetting set fiscal targets.
To accommodate the additional requirements, I have revised the 2022 budget of ZWL968.3 billion, taking account of the additional expenditures of ZWL929.3 billion to bring the total budget to ZWL1 897 trillion.
I am, therefore, presenting to this august House, the Supplementary Estimates for 2022 and the accompanying Appropriation [Supplementary] Bill (2022) for consideration and approval by Hon. Members.
Mr. President, I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I would like to welcome the presence of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. However, we have had a promise from the Minister of Finance that he will come to explain to us. We can go to the Second Reading and go through it but we have argued here as Members of Parliament that when you brought in the gold coins and how they are going to mitigate the economic situation and the volatility of the Zimbabwe dollar was going to be done by yourself in this august House to explain to us before we go and approve a budget which we do not understand how it is going to work.
We have been going to our constituencies, thank God we got some money to drive to our constituencies but we have no answers to explain exactly how this economy is going to run. We can approve the billions that you have talked about but we cannot explain this hyper-inflationary position where we are now approving a budget which is more than three times what we had at the beginning of the year. We need an explanation from you Hon. Minister before we debate your finances.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Hon. President. Let me also take the opportunity to thank the Hon. Minister. I think the people of Zimbabwe have got higher expectations out of your budget. Currently, the people of Zimbabwe are languishing in extreme poverty. Those who are formally employed at the moment have virtually no difference with the ones that are unemployed. Probably the ones that are not formally employed are better off because they are able to engage in parallel deals that will give them valuable money.
As we speak right now, the salaries that are earned by civil servants, even if you add the US$175.00 and the RTGs, no one can make a comfortable life out of that. The cost of living in the country is too high. The price of goods is beyond reach. At the end of the day, a civil servant goes home with less than US$250.00. The RTGs value which the civil servants are earning is not even enough for airtime. People have got kids who go to school and also need medical attention, clothing, payments of rent out of the money that civil servants are earning. It is very impossible to fulfill these basic requirements.
Even the Members of Parliament (MPs) that you see here, they have been turned into vendors. After every Parliamentary sitting, MPs are seen parading in the streets converting coupons into cash in order to raise money for school fees and basic requirements. This is unacceptable. This has turned Zimbabweans into extreme poor people. Hon. Minister, we need to look into this seriously. We need to look into methods which can be employed to make sure that we balance between people’s expectations and the targets that you might have as a Minister to turnaround our economy. The time has been long; people have been very patient but things seem not to be improving at all. So, salaries should be reviewed such that after every month end, a person should be able to smile. Currently, people get stressed as the month comes to an end because they know whatever they are earning is not going to help in any way.
We do have farmers who are crying. Farmers work very hard to have their produce but the prices that the GMB is offering is actually peanuts. We are aware that the private buyers are paying US$300 per tonne of maize yet if you sell your produce to GMB, you are given 100 000 RTGs and US$90.00. Comparing this to the private buyers, the difference is too huge. Our experience is that farmers are no longer prepared to sell their produce to the GMB. That is going to put the country at risk in terms of food security.
We have quite a great challenge. Next year we might not have farmers ready to produce maize because they see no value of producing maize. The cost of agricultural inputs such as fertiliser is very high and is charged in USD. We need, Hon. Minister, to be transformative; to think outside the box and see what we can do to ensure that our farmers are happy and ready to engage again into maize production next year. I wonder what will happen if we do not take action immediately. It is our plea that this budget should have enough money to make our farmers happy.
At one GMB depot, we compared the deliveries that were done at the same period this year and last year. That GMB depot has received 12 000 tonnes this year, yet last year it received more than 104 000 tonnes of maize. Truly speaking, the farmers are hoarding their produce. These two figures must put us in a panic mode and engage the farmers, talk to them, find out what they want so that they can be motivated to produce more maize next year. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President. I would also like to thank the Minister of Finance for the budget he brought to this House. I think for the past years, you have been presenting these budgets, most ministries were getting less than 25% of what they wanted to get. I do not know Hon. Minister, if now you are ready to give them 100% of what they want. When they make their budgets, like now the whole country is waiting for you to see if anything is going to move. Even ministries are waiting to get the money because they have got their projects waiting in line so that when they get their money, they do their jobs. It is not about the Ministry but it is about the country Zimbabwe. So if they get 25% or 30% of what they wanted, it then means they will not be doing anything.
Hon. Minister, every time you make your budget, yes you tell us you want all those figures. Are these figures in the air or it is something which you know you will not get the money? Every time you make your budget, you do not really explain to us as a House how you are going to get the money. That is why the ministries are not getting 100% or 75% of the money that they want. Myself, my child, my cousin, if we ask for something, we need it. If you allow the ministries to submit their budgets and they do not get the money, they will end up doing nothing. Remember, that Ministry has got some workers. It will not be good for them not to get their money. It is better to tell them not to do budgets because the money is not there. Since last year, if you get to any Ministry, they are crying.
I am glad the last speaker spoke about agriculture. It is something which is hurting the people of Zimbabwe. When you import maize from outside the country, you give them good money. Why can you not give it to the farmers in this country so that next season they will be able to get back to the fields as they will be having enough money? How can you support other countries and give them good money whilst you cannot give it to farmers in Zimbabwe?
The second thing Hon. Minister, if you go around shops now, fertilizer for this year has gone up and we cannot afford to buy it. How do you expect those people to go back to the fields to plant crops while they do not have fertilizers? Hon. Minister, I think it is one of the items where if you can subsidize the fertilizer or whatever is being needed by the farmers so that they can do their job easily. If you ask any farmer now, they are saying they cannot do anything. Can you try and do something because importing food stuffs from other countries is too expensive for this country. It is better to subsidize farmers with fertilizer and chemicals so that they will be able to go back to the fields and plant. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to support with a few words, the Supplementary Budget which was brought to this august House by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Let me start by thanking the Hon. Minister for the explanation that he gave which regards this Supplementary Budget. The previous speakers brought about quite pertinent issues.
Our desire is to restore the agriculture sector to its former glory. Government should ensure that our farmers are capacitated. Mr. President, we had the Command Agriculture Programme. This has been quite beneficial because our GMB depots have been receiving a lot of grain. Because of the stopping of that particular programme, we saw farmers being referred to the CBZ bank. The challenge is that the agreement between Government and farmers and what is transpiring now where CBZ requires collateral, it is affecting the progress of the initiative. Mr. President, I believe that it is good for Government to look at the interests of farmers so that every farmer is able to cultivate for the benefit of the nation.
AFC is beneficial to farmers but there are a number of challenges that farmers are complaining about. Government should ascertain first the operations of AFC because sometimes farmers have big expectations. We want Government to investigate its operations. We cannot have hunger in Zimbabwe yet we have people who work hard. Zimbabweans work hard but they need to be capacitated with fertilizers, herbicides, implements, et cetera which would have our commercial and communal farmers. You would find that sometimes people get basal fertilizers in December and top dressing in January. I would like to implore Government to look into the issue. I stood to buttress the issue that Government should restore the Command Agriculture Programme which benefitted a lot of people and that is why our silos were full. We moved around districts and we were shocked to discover that at times you find only five tonnes of grain.
Mr. President, I want to support the Budget but I would like to suggest that farmers should be given implements and inputs so that everyone can produce. It is important to review the operations of CBZ because only few farmers are able to get loans. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity and thank you to the Hon. Minister for the background and brief of the budget that he is going to be presenting to us. I think my question and debate is also with the concern that the Minister is coming to this House and most of the Senators, including myself are not very familiar with what is happening in the Ministry with regards to how the Minister is going to try and stabilise the economy. We have had debates in this House and we have been assured that the fundamentals of the economy are in place, but as the Minister was giving a brief, the figures that he is giving do not sound or give confidence that the fundamentals of the economy are in place because we are looking at almost double the budget that was approved previously and yet this is a supplementary budget.
We have infrastructure development that is taking place across the country and some of these projects have come to a halt due to none payment of service providers. This is due to the inflationary period we have gone through and we are facing. The Minister has previously indicated and almost convinced us that he has got this under control but what is happening in the economy is proving to be the opposite. The introduction of gold coins as the Hon. Members have indicated were meant to address the inflation that we are expecting but as Hon. Members of this Senate, we hardly understand what is going on and as we approve this budget or are going to approve this budget, there will be very little understanding of what we are approving. I am worried that the Hon. Senators- of course, I am aware that they may not change this budget, they may have to refer it back to the lower House but our input at this moment does not have really much value because of lack of understanding of what is happening in the economy.
I plead that maybe going forward, if the Minister and his deputy can take this House seriously and engage us in the processes and understanding of what is going on in the economy. When Members have got questions, when they have got concerns, may we be addressed so that as we sit and approve some of these important and vital issues in society, we should understand what we are doing. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute a few points on this supplementary budget. Thank you Minister for coming to this august House in order that we share a vision for the country with regards to the finances.
If you look of the figures that we are talking about over ZWL300 billion, vis-à-vis the amount that we budgeted for as a country last year, all point to inflation. As unschooled as I am, I would want the Minister to show us how he intends to stabilise the Zimbabwean dollar so that it takes its correct position in the league of currencies because our biggest challenge here is inflation. From ZWL300 billion, maybe we might end the year at ZWL1 trillion and we will still have a deficit, but now how are we going to tame the inflation that we have in this country?
My heart bleeds for the workers in Zimbabwe who are earning far below the poverty datum line. Some have not been able to send their children to school because of eroded RTGS monies which they are earning. So we need also to see how the Minister is going to deal with this kind of inflation.
Furthermore, as Zimbabwe, I want to just buttress a point which has been raised by other Hon. Members earlier on. Zimbabwe is an agricultural country. We rely on agriculture per se. I want to know at what point you subsidise the farming community. Do you subsidise the miller or the producer because our fertilizers are now at US$D70 per kg and if we are going to calculate mathematically, you will find that most of our soils require eight bags of fertilizer D per hectare. If you are going to look at the productivity therein where a farmer at most can produce five tonnes per hectare, you will see that I, as a farmer, will not go for maize because I will not earn anything. If ever I do anything, maybe I might not even reach breakeven point. So I want to know how as a Ministry you want to deal with this issue of the imbalances in input costs in the very backdrop of our economy which is agriculture because the input costs are the biggest challenges.
Now we are going towards the rainy season. Today is September 6th and I am sure every clever farmer out there has had his preparations done. We do not have fertilizers in the shelves, the prices are not permitting, fuel is going up, RTGS money that we are paid, the 100 000 per tonne is coming maybe within three days and the other US$90 is just a promise. Farmers are not receiving that money. What incentive are we going to use to make the farmer go back to till that piece of land again? These are some of the things that we require to know so that we can approve this budget with confidence that it will boost the very essence of the existence of this country, that is agriculture; for agriculture is the backdrop of Zimbabwe. Without agriculture there is no Zimbabwe to talk about.
Another thing also is that of education. We have schools that are charging monies in RTGS yet inflation is driving the input cost up. The cost of putting the children in the schools is going up as a result of inflation. Prices of basic commodities which the schools rely on goes up every other time and it would be a pity if these children end up very hungry because we are forcing a situation. So basically, my point is I need to appreciate how you are going to tame inflation regardless of the figures that you are going to present here. How do you intend to tame inflation? How do you intend to deflate the wayward behaviour of the economy? I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add my voice to the supplementary budget. The Minister said he has no problem in me speaking in Shona, he understands. Coming to the issue of the supplementary budget, firstly, I would like to agree with the previous speaker. This budget you have brought to us before the Senate, we need to work together as a team so that next time we will not engage into a blame game. Inflation was there before you were even appointed to become a Minister. You are not the one who brought inflation; it was there already. We must work together so that we solve this inflation issue.
I think it is better to do a workshop where we can discuss some issues so that when the budget is brought to the Senate, it will be very easy because we will have contributed to it before. I think it will be prudent to consider suggestions of legislators before you present a budget. The other issue that has been mentioned is about gold coins. It now seems the economy is stabilising, it seems things are normalising.
Hon. Minister, we must consider seriously the issue of school fees. This is very disappointing as schools are hiking fees anyhow they like. Parents are suffering, if you see the salaries of civil servants and to think that they have children in boarding schools, the rentals they are paying, daily expenses and you try to match that to their salaries; you actually see that you equate the money they are getting to nothing. Where are they getting this extra money to live a normal life? All this is to encourage corruption. It is my plea that we fix the economy.
The other issue is that of agriculture. We must look at the output we are getting from agriculture. We can talk of inputs and mechanisation and if people are failing to show ability to do the agriculture part of the country, we will continue to suffer from lack of food.
Let us look at wheat; if you see someone who cannot produce five hectares, that person is not a farmer. Let us look at the issue being raised by farmers that they are lowly paid. If we look at the issue that maize being brought from Zambia to Zimbabwe is charged at almost half price; maize is being brought from Brazil to this country at US$120 per tonne but on the other hand, our farmers are complaining that they are lowly paid and cannot go back to the field, why is it like that? Did we analyse the reason beyond all these requests? It is because of productivity. Let me tell you this Hon. President - I have a combine harvester. I once offered to help someone and he said he does not have money, so I asked him to give me 10 bags. I did the job and I did not manage to even get the 10 bags, but I only got eight bags. You see on five hectares of land, I could not even get 10 bags. So the problem is not the harvest. Are people using the inputs they would have got from command correctly? They sell inputs and use the little remaining, like fertilizers and the like and it will not be enough to produce enough yields compared to the hectares they have. I plead with the Hon. Minister that they must supervise to see if farmers have used the inputs correctly.
We are embarrassed as Africa. As a continent, we must not be seen to be importing maize from other countries. I am worried about Zimbabwe as a country because where I come from, we need to change our position. There is a ship that brought food from Djibouti and that ship came from Ukraine where there is war; it is delivering in Africa where there is no war. It is embarrassing that we get maize from Ukraine. It is not one country, but a lot of countries in Africa are doing that and it is a shame. It is very easy for Zimbabwe to come out of such a situation. It is very clear every two months it is always important that we brain storm since we will find solutions out of such a process. People do not have an opportunity to give their opinions. We have legislators who have brilliant ideas, if only we are involved in decision making.
Truthfully speaking, we love you Hon. Minister and we will approve the budget despite the fact that we have some concerns and the fact that we will suffer afterwards. The position is that we are supposed to approve it. Even you Hon. Minister, you will see that the Hon. Senators have approved the budget but it was very difficult for them but they had to do it; that is politics. You must call us in advance to discuss the budget together so that you can also have our opinions. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Hon. President Sen. Gen. Nyambuya. I would like to thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Prof. M. Ncube. I have just stood up to join others to give my comments on the budget that we are discussing in this Senate. Our budget is of no use if it does not address the suffering being experienced by the people of this country. Zimbabweans are languishing in poverty. Our budget should mention things which are going to be implemented to alleviate poverty. We also need to address the issue of unemployment in the country. Quite a number of people have finished their education but there is no employment. What are we doing through this budget to ensure that there is employment creation in this country? If a country is said to be a developed country, there are skyscrapers, improved infrastructure and in that same country with a first world infrastructure you see poor people. Mr. President, the development we anticipate to see in this country is development that is inclusive. Is this budget inclusive?
Let me talk about the Peace and Security Thematic Committee of this House. We went around the country looking at the issue of food security. We noticed that people have got the desire to do their farming but farmers are being asked to produce collateral security by banks. We are supposed to be injecting a lot of capital in farming so that we are able to produce food that is enough for citizens and also abundant produce that can be exported. We want surplus so that we can give others in Africa. For us to say if a farmer needs money from the bank he or she should bring collateral security in form of a house or something which is of value is something that has derailed farming in the country.
Countries that are really focused on farming including Ukraine have subsidised agriculture. It is something that has always been there to say there is financial support rendered to a farmer. Agricultural support was given to farmers even during the colonial era. If you go to countries like America, you will see that agriculture is being subsidised but here what we have done is making it even more difficult for the farmers. It is difficult for the farmers as they try to produce for this country.
Mr. President, even if you look at our pensioners those who are paid through NSSA and the war veterans, the pensions that they are getting are not assisting them in anyway. They are not able to buy food with the money that they are earning. Most of those pensioners have health issues and that money cannot assist them in anyway. When you talk about the budget, I anticipate it is the budget to highlight such issues. For this country to develop, we should look at our youth. It is not correct to just say that the young people are the leaders of tomorrow without empowering them. Through Amendment No. 2, we said we want the youth to come into Parliament; that is a bit of political power we are giving them but they also need economic power.
Mr. President, we should look at ways of empowering them regardless of their political affiliation so that they benefit something from this economy. Are they getting services so that they start or resume businesses as entrepreneurs? It is the same as women in this country. Women are very much into enterprise, they are very good mathematicians. They bring their tomatoes from Mutoko to Harare and they do their mathematics very well. A child may go to school barefooted but they would have paid the fees. These women should be uplifted through empowerment and it is something that we should consider in our budget.
Our country has a lot of wounds. It is something that we have done to ourselves through political conflicts, for example Gukurahundi, things that were done in 2000, 2008 and 2018. We are only talking but there is no compensation for Gukurahundi. When is the compensation going to come through to benefit those who were victims, those who lost their beloved ones during Gukurahundi? The Motlanthe Commission produced a detailed report to us mentioning those who were killed or injured on the 1st August, 2018 disturbances and recommended payment to those people. Has that been captured in our budget?
I would like to support Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira that as Senators, we are not here to make like difficult for you Hon. Minister. We are here to make sure that the children of Zimbabwe that we represent in this House are well catered for. With those few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for giving us an opportunity to say a few words in this House. I would like to thank the Minister of Finance for the budget. The country does not survive when we do not have a Minister of Finance. We love the budget that he has brought. By bringing a supplementary budget in this House, it shows that you acknowledge that there are people. Farming is what gives this country a better position. We can only survive as a result of good farming. Since childhood, from the farms, we have seen and we have known champions in agriculture. We even copied from the colonialists their farming skills. We used to farm with ploughs on our farms but we have changed the farming methods.
Now, coming back to my issue and when we talk about the issue of the budget, we have tobacco farmers who stand alone. We have people who are very good at farming tobacco and specialists who are very good in maize farming. Each and every crop has something that it needs when it comes to the budget and it should be given deserving attention according to its own time. We would like to thank the Second Republic and His Excellency the President Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa.
Through Pfumvudza, people are able to farm in time and find it easy to do their farming. We have different soils as farmers where we come from. When the rain gives you a signal, we engage in farming. The issue of the budget, I have seen farmers who are really good at farming doing a budget. The country will have put its budget but as a farmer, he will have his own budget. They used to be financing houses that used to lend to farmers. Back in the days, Standard Chartered used to give loans to farmers. I know of a farmer who used to go to Standard Chartered Bank to make a request of $2 million. They would promise him and the next day he would get the money as a farmer. Small grain farmers and other produce, and each and every crop needs its own budget.
We speak as Senators but we get specialists, when it comes to agricultural budgeting, can be found in farming organisations. Those are the ones who actually look closely with an analytical eye to say this kind of crop needs what kind of a budget. Those are the specialists and the people I encourage the Minister to engage with. If those people are engaged, we are guaranteed of a better income. Our President having noticed the problems we were having as farmers, introduced Pfumvudza and there was maize all over the country.
We fully acknowledge that we are in the deep end with sanctions and at the moment there is nothing that the Minister can do. You are trying by all means Hon. Minister to keep us afloat. As a Minister, it is important that you engage the different departments for their problems are different. It is important Hon. Minister to say let us look at those farmers who used to do very well. Those who are scaling down, engage them and ask them what is happening. They will explain and pinpoint exactly where they need assistance.
The money that comes after people have sold their tractors and livestock, and the other organisations which I will not mention that used to finance farmers and take away people’s property because of the interests they would have charged; I would like to thank you as you got through some of the problems. We would like to raise and develop our country in terms of agriculture. If you want to give women land for farming, the country would have banked because when women engage into farming, they will forget about the urban areas. They will forget they are married to a husband who is back in the city.
We would like to say we are very happy with what you have brought in this House Hon. Minister. Yes, we have people like teachers who are uplifting this country through the work that they are doing. May you please remember them? There are our people and we kindly ask you to remember them. Kindly look for other means of revenue collection, so that they are assisted and we have intelligent children who are taught by hardworking teachers in the country. Let us remember teachers Hon. Minister. For so many years they have suffered and it is time we uplift them. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I would like to thank the Minister of Finance for the budget that he brought before us. We want to acknowledge you as a hero because the war of the economy is much even worse than the war of guns. What is important is that it needs someone who is brave and we also need to take note as Zimbabweans. The budget is presented and we will be satisfied but it is affected by inflation. We need funds to be released to ministries in due course because by the time the funds are released, they will be people waiting to use these funds.
We thank you for all the efforts. You have the wisdom of Solomon. The Hon. Senators have spoken that we expect that the Ministry of Agriculture should be allocated much of the budget because Zimbabwe, when it comes to agriculture, everything that pertains to this budget should be addressed to agriculture and we need most of the funds to be released quickly to the agricultural sector so that people can farm in due course. If people practice farming and produce their own food they can have surplus to sell and use the funds for other things. The issue of climate change is also affecting our agriculture. The President indicated that the issue of collateral is a challenge to the youths and women when wanting to get money from banks. Women and youths can uplift the economy of this country if funds are availed to them. It is important that we also give adequate budgets to the youths and women’s bank. Most of our youths are perishing due to drug abuse because of idleness, so we want them to be engaged in value adding projects to assist them.
When you look at the health sector, there are no medicines in hospitals. We are here as Senators because we are healthy and if you do not finance our health sector, we will not be able to come here due to illness. The farming and health sectors are very important but it does not mean that the other departments are not important, they also are important. Even our civil service is very important and we want them to be given money timeously. When their salaries are increased to $20 000, a loaf of bread’s price will increase to $5 000, which means that they will continue to live in poverty. We want to sit down as Zimbabweans to see what we can do. We are supposed to look at the issues and see what we can do so that our inflation rate remains stable.
You will find that the price you see on the shelf today will have changed the following day. Today the price is ZWL10 and tomorrow it will be ZWL200. People are struggling to make a living because commodities are very expensive out there. The civil servants’ welfare should be looked into. We want the civil servants and the people in the health sector’s welfare to be always looked into because most of them are not in good shape because of the budget conditions.
When the budget is presented in here, it is very pleasing but when it goes out, there are lions waiting to devour the budget and that is inflation. When it is released to the people, the 35% will not be enough though when it was being presented, it sounded like it was 100%. I want to thank the Minister for the supplementary budget. No country can survive without the Ministry of Finance. The Minister is a very important individual who also needs assistance. We are not supposed to look up to him but we are also supposed to assist him, both of us here and those in the National Assembly. We need to assist him with advice on issues that affect our economy. These issues should not only be for the Ministry of Finance because if he passes away tomorrow and we wake up without a Minister of Finance, what are we supposed to do?
It is difficult that he is presenting his budget today with his briefcase but tomorrow his budget will be affected by inflation. We need to assist him and also give him ideas as our Minister of Finance because most of us here have various talents. I think that this budget came at a good time but it will soon be affected by inflation. So, I urge the Minister to release the funds urgently before they are affected by inflation. I am not the only one who will be affected by inflation but all of us will be affected.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to add a few words to the debate on the supplementary budget. I would urge the Minister to look at the industry in this country. I will give an example of a bag of cement, you get it for USD5 or USD6 from outside but the local cement is costing USD20. On Friday before I came here, I went to N. Richards with the intention to buy cement. Lafarge cement (32) was USD20 and the other one was USD10. The reason given for such a high price was because of the parallel market. The bank rate is killing us. Why can they not be allowed to just price their products using their profit margin without using the bank rate? We need to look at that issue Hon. Minister. If you look at those in the rural areas, they rely on livestock as their wealth but you have only talked about agriculture and not considered our livestock. In the rural areas, agriculture and livestock make people survive. Our livestock has been suffering from the January disease for almost six years now and research has not found a total cure for this disease. If you come to the rural areas, cows are being sold for USD50 dollars because you cannot hang on to them as they will all die due to this disease. On the other hand, it is this livestock that we regard as our sole wealth, for survival and school fees. Our livestock is our bank and our monetary investment. As rural folk, we look forward to livestock as a source of income. What have you done in your budget to consider and tackle this January disease? When the Hon Minister does certain things, we always ask each other whether the Minister does not have elderly relatives back at home.
Hon. Minister, do your calculations and see how many bags of cement I am able to buy with the salary that I earn. Even building infrastructure, where will this get us, considering your Budget? People are crying and they think you are living in heaven. You are seated there and it seems you are not affected by these things. You are seen on a daily basis presenting different papers and Bills – people think that you do not experience this life in Zimbabwe. People are suffering out there.
For farmers in Chiredzi, our issue is on taxes - Minister, do you know these taxes and do you understand them? Before we consider farming or farming chemicals, there are a lot of taxes that are charged – almost ten agencies collect taxes. These range from ZIMRA, council, lands, NSSA and so forth. How do we produce on the farms? When we were growing up, we knew that Smith and other white farmers used to lend to white farmers and after ten years they would stop because they would know that they had done well.
A good example is that of a sugar cane farmer at Tongaat – before I even cut down my sugar cane, they would have deducted their money, hence I remain in the same position.
Our vehicles need servicing and I think you do not know that because you do not experience what we come across. I cannot buy a tyre as a Chief. The salary that you give me as a Senator is not enough – I cannot do anything. What about a teacher or those in rural areas? My wife is a teacher and she brings her payslip and when I look at it she asks me – are you sure that you mingle with the Minister? What then are you doing if you are spending time with the Minister in the Senate? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, avoid making tedious repetition.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to say a few things that have been left out. Does the Minister look at any ways of empowering chiefs? There is an issue pertaining to boundaries and the outcry is for your Ministry to finance such processes. Kindly remember Local Government so that we may be attended to as chiefs. That would be a corrective measure to deal with critical issues that are affecting us as chiefs.
On farming equipment, there are a lot of people who come to the chief’s homestead – a chief cannot engage in Zunde raMambo using donkeys. Tractors are the modern equipment that are used for farming. We kindly ask the Minister to consider us in that manner. The chiefs are the fathers of this country. They should be empowered so that they are able to assist people who fall under their jurisdiction. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. President and I also thank the Hon. Senators for their contributions. I have listened very carefully and taken copious notes. I hope that my responses will add value to their sentiments as I respond.
I will start with Hon. Sen. Mudzuri who raised an important matter regarding gold coins and how they work. Indeed, a request was put to us to come back to this House to explain the introduction of gold coins, their rationale, what they are supposed to do and how they work. Let me summarise as follows but I am happy to come back and give a full statement. I hope this is a good start.
Gold coins were introduced as one of the measures for mopping up excess liquidity in the economy but for also giving alternative value to our hard working citizens. These were introduced on the 24th June 2022 (an announcement was made) and they went on sale on 25th July 2022. On this particular day, we sold about 2000 coins and we kept this going. Gold coins can be bought in domestic currency (ZWL) or in foreign currency. When you buy in foreign currency, you prefer to hold the coin rather than the USD under the impression that the price of gold will go up or you feel that it is a much safer asset to hold as hard currency asset compared to the USD. If you use ZWL, it is because you believe that the coins will preserve value for you – that is what exactly what those Zimbabweans who are buying coins are doing to preserve value.
As Government, we wanted the gold coin to mop up liquidity from the market in the sense that those excess ZWL which were finding their way on the parallel market are now finding their way towards the purchase of gold coins. It is helping us to sterilize that excess Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWL) which was causing havoc when the parallel market was moving up sharply. I think you have seen, Hon. Senators, that the parallel market movement has been tampered with and there is a bit more stability, and even the month on month inflation is beginning to come down. We expect this to hold as long as we are able to really enforce these liquidity measures.
Let me say a bit more about the coin itself. Currently, the coin is one ounce - that is its denomination. It is a made of gold, it is a gold coin. I am trying to really go through its characteristics for the record. Its purity in carats is what we call 22 carats level, which is about 92% gold in terms of purity. It is a 32mm coin in diameter. It weighs about 34grams, and the thickness is about 2.63mm. I was advised to give the exact characteristics since this is a House of records Mr. President.
As I said, at the risk of repeating, anyone can buy the coin, and the good thing about the coin is that you can use it as security. If you want a small loan, you can present it to a bank and the bank can accept it as security; you can choose to, having bought it, to keep it yourself or keep it in your bank, your bank can keep it for you. Also if you are a Pension Fund, the Pension Fund can buy gold coins; these also count as investments in the Pension Fund portfolio, very similar to buildings, shares on the stock market, and Treasury Bills for example. So they are an investment assert even for Pension Funds. We also said that even if you are living outside Zimbabwe, you can only buy gold coins using hard currency, that is, United States Dollars, Rand or some other hard currency and not ZWL but we will allow you to buy so that you use hard currency.
We received suggestions from the public to say that currently, if the gold coin is only one ounce Mr. President, perhaps it is not accessible to the bulk of our citizens; we need to issue smaller denominations. We have listened carefully and have taken this into account, and we intend to issue smaller denominations of this coin which would be cheaper than the current coin. Currently, the coin is going for about USD1.800 per coin because that is the price of gold per ounce and gold has an international price. We do not set the price; we only charge a small fee for producing the coin and fee of the ordinary 5% but otherwise it is an international price that are the price-takers. So it is expensive to a certain section of our society, so we will be issuing smaller denominations and we will make the announcement appropriately once we are ready for these coins to begin circulating and anyone can come and buy these coins. So, at the moment, if you want to buy a coin, you can approach your bank and they will be able to advise you on how best to buy or pay for it and also act as your custodian as well – that is all I wanted to say on gold coins for now Mr. President but I am happy to elaborate and come back to give an even fuller statement going forward.
I now turn to the contributions from Hon. Sen. Komichi, Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu and also Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira about the need for us as Treasury, and for me, to come and workshop with this august House on the economy in general so that we can discuss various aspects and so that we are all better informed at the end of the day to advise our citizens as to what is going on. I agree with this, I will work with you Mr. President and your Office to see how best we can put this together. I do not think we want to wait for the usual retreat; it should happen before that so that we speak generally about the economy, I stand ready to do that. I have been doing that with the business people even off camera. Why not with this august House? So, it should start here, I really accept that challenge and agree with that, we will arrange with your staff Mr. President.
Hon. Sen. Komichi then raised an issue regarding protecting the vulnerable and dealing with poverty and social protection. In this budget, we have set aside quite a big chunk of it towards social protection which will cover our typical social protection programme, starting of course, with the Pfumvudza Programme; which is a productive social protection programme where we are providing inputs, that is, fertiliser, seed and so forth. Then we come to support for the vulnerable in terms of the BEAM Programme, health support as well as other forms of support for the vulnerable. In fact, the bulk of this budget is focusing on social protection. So, I agree with you that that is what we should do and that is exactly what it is trying to do. 53% of the budget will go towards civil servants salaries, just a little more than half. So that is exactly what we are targeting and that is the point that you mentioned. We are having conversations with civil servants through the Tripartite Negotiating Forum (TNF) platform, conversations are going on and, at the right moment, we will be able to announce whatever adjustments we agree upon and whatever time we agree upon.
Then on the support for farmers, I must say that Hon. Sen. Komichi raised the issue about support for farmers, the price and so forth, and if you look at other countries like Zambia, South Africa, and Malawi around us, they do not typically set producer prices as such. They usually allow the market to operate so that the farmer is able to exploit the demand to their best advantage in terms of prices that are being offered out there. We are also slowly moving in that direction but we want to make sure that at least there is a minimum support price that a farmer will be accorded so that they make money out of this very important venture; in fact, that they do not lose money rather. So, a minimum support price is what is needed but above that, a farmer should be able sell their produce. We intend to try out this approach, we are emulating other countries, and we intend to do it starting with the Winter Wheat Programme now so that you are accorded the best price available out there.
Even on the issue of perhaps building our strategic grain reserve, once we have stipulated that it is 500 000 metric tonnes, that is what we should target as Government and no more. The rest, a farmer should be free to sell to the market, as long as the maize Mr. President, is within our borders, what is our problem? Whether it is sitting at the Grain Marketing Board (GMB) or in someone’s private silo; it is fine. So we should not worry whether it is at GMB or not. So we do not have to buy all the grain as Government but at least buy enough to last us for six months because that has been the metric that we target six months in terms of our rate of consumption and that is about 500 000 metric tonnes of grain. I must hasten to say, Hon. Sen. Komichi and colleagues, that we have set aside ZWL38.1billion in this Supplementary Budget for the strategic grain reserve in any case, just to make sure that there is enough at GMB to support us during lean times.
I now turn to Hon. Sen. Chinake who mentioned an important point about ministries not receiving enough budgets in terms of what they bid for, maybe 25% or so and so forth. This is true; ministries never get 100% of what they bid for. In fact, every year, you will find that what they bid for is three times of what is available and sometimes, it is actually equal to the size of the economy. In fact that is what happens; you find that the bid is equal to the size of the economy and that is not sustainable. If you look at the supplementary budget, it was in trillions and yet we do not have that kind of money and they should do that. Mwana asingachemi anofira mumbereko ka, unotofanirwa kuchema – which is what happens; if you ask for more, you get less.
However, you make an important point about making sure that we have early release and that is a fair point. Frankly, we try to live within our means and cashflows are never easy. We are on sanctions and we do not get enough support from abroad. In fact, the support that comes in from the NGOs does not come through central Government by the way. We have no control; we just watch it flow in. They do not even account to us but we allow that to happen because if we do not, then what are we saying? When others are trying to help our citizens, then we try to stop them; we cannot do that. It would not be right but we have no control.
With other countries, as I speak, you find that some of the countries just rely on donor funding for their main budget. They pay civil service salaries, the nurses, the teachers everyone from donor funding. It is going on around Africa, which is an issue that Sen. Chief Charumbira raised about what is wrong with us. We should be doing better.
Hon. Sen. Chinake, you mentioned the issue about being clear or explaining better where our money comes from. Our money comes from taxes; we are eating what we are harvesting from taxes. So, it is your VAT and your income tax, corporate tax from companies, the 2% tax, any other taxes, excise duty and so forth – that is where our income is coming from as Government. I will be very happy to give you a breakdown if you need the exact figures in terms of this specific supplementary budget – I am happy to do that should you want the details.
Then on the issue of fertilizer prices, you are right. Fertilizer prices have gone up, maybe at this moment I should mention the impact of the global situation on the economy. It is very serious. What we have seen is a sharp rise in prices; it is even slowing down economic growth in major countries like America, Europe and so forth.
If you look at America and the rest of Europe, they are experiencing the highest inflation ever in 40 years since 1980. So, it is spilling over into our economy. We are not the only ones affected but every other African country is affected. Yesterday, I was just going through an article which was telling us about the food crises in West Africa, not because there is a drought but the drought is in East Africa and that is another problem; it is in West Africa. It is about food prices globally due to high fertilizer prices or just the unavailability of wheat from the traditional suppliers, which is Ukraine and Russia.
The wheat price issue is real, it is global but we are doing everything possible to mitigate against the two issues, which is availability and price. The challenge about this fertilizer issue is that it is just also not available easily globally and then the price is high. So, on supply, we have removed import duties on imported fertilizer with immediate effect.
Secondly, we are also increasing the capacity in terms of local production. Yesterday, you might have seen in the media that His Excellency the President, commissioned fertilizer plant in Msasa which is going to increase our domestic production of fertilizer under the Chemplex Brand Company which is owned by Government. So, it is actually Government which is investing more in fertilizer production capacity, therefore we are doing everything we can.
I am glad also to say that for the winter wheat programme, we had enough fertilizer to support the winter wheat programme. We did not have any issue of supply; the issue was just price. We are really looking forward to a very successful harvest this season for winter wheat. We are expecting in terms of figures from the Ministry of Agriculture, about 380 000 mt on wheat compared to our consumption of about 360 000. So, we should not be importing any wheat this year and that would be the first time in 20 years that we have not imported wheat. If that really comes true, I think we deserve a pat on the shoulder for the whole nation.
Let me also come to questions raised by Hon. Chimbudzi who expressed that they were happy with the extra supplementary budget but we need to support agriculture a lot more. You will find that in this supplementary budget, agriculture and education are the top recipients with over a 100 billion each. So, we have really targeted the agriculture sector and for just the input support scheme alone, we have added 22, 5 billion for the Pfumvudza/Intwasa Programmes. So we really try to do quite a bit on agriculture including supplementing the budget for these grain reserves that build up.
However, the issue of prices is an issue; we raised the issue of CBZ AGRO-yield that you feel you are not happy that demanding collateral but I am a bit baffled by that but maybe there is something that I am missing. As Treasury, we have extended a Government guarantee to that CBZ AGRO-yield which should do away with the need for collateral unless perhaps there is a portion, maybe there is something that is not covered, I need to be educated as well – I thought that this was covered.
As we speak, we worry about farmers who are not paying back to the bank and then Treasury has to come in because they provided the guarantee. So, maybe something needs to be fixed. I will look into this collateral issue; I thought that we had set that aside through this guarantee facility.
You also mentioned the issue of access to equipment through AFC Holding that perhaps this is not working well – again, we will look into that to see if we can make it easier for farmers to access their equipment.
From Hon. Ndlovu, you basically referred to the issue of stability that what measures are we putting in place to deal with stability; the source of instability is in twofold. One is external and the other is internal. External instability issues arise out of the crises globally as I mentioned, we are importing global inflation. We feel that half of the inflation locally is imported through the price of fuel, fertilizer and just the price of raw materials generally. Those are the channels of importation of that inflation which is leading to instability.
For fuel, we have responded by adjusting the levy on own fuel. The standard levy is about 12,7 cents for both diesel and petrol and we keep adjusting it accordingly. So as I speak, we have taken down the levy on diesel to zero but the levy on petrol is still at about 12, 7 cents. Every week we keep adjusting it to absorb the shock of the increase in the fuel prices.
On fertilizer, at the risk of repeating, I have talked about increasing domestic supply, removing import duties just to make sure that we have got adequate supply. It is not easy how we can best deal with the pricing but at least for those under Pfumvudza, they will get their fertile anyway. We have to buy at any price and deliver to the number of households, three million households that will receive inputs. So that is external, and internally we increased interest rates for borrowers. What we noticed is that borrowers were basically getting free money because inflation was lower or rather was higher than the interest rates, what we call negative yearly interest rates.
So money was free and speculators know that when we give them free money they will go and get the free money from banks and then go and speculate in the parallel market and cause trouble. Once the parallel market moves up, it affects inflation because the pricing is on the back of the parallel market. As Central Government as well, we have said we want to enforce this notion of value for money because we noticed that some Government contractors are pricing their contracts at parallel rates and this is not helping us. It means that we are spending more than we should be spending.
Part of the reason why we have the supplementary budget is because of this overpricing which is pushing up expenses and it is not very helpful at all. So at the end, we have to come before you and seek support to spend more. We are dealing with that issue of contractors. There are other measures that we have taken and I could give a whole bouquet of the measures, for instance that His Excellency announced and I also added some measures to the Central Bank and so together those measures constitute the package that we have pronounced to deal with the instability. I think it is fair to say in the last few weeks we are beginning some stability in some shops and some prices are coming down.
We are also seeing some stability in the movement of the parallel market itself. Some measures are really working well. We will watch the space and see if we need to institute some more or we should leave things as they are or make adjustments where necessary.
Hon. Sen. Ndlovu talked about gold coins and I have addressed that one. Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe talked about the vagaries of inflation that the reason why this supplementary budget is being brought here is because of inflation and that is true. In fact, inflation cuts both ways. It has given us more revenue than anticipated and we need permission from you to spend the extra revenue on Government programmes.
It has also increased expenses beyond the approved budget and again we need approval for that. So it is true, inflation is at the heart of this but the budget tries to deal with the causes or the accompanying policies within the budget and around the budget are trying to deal with this inflation.
The issue of civil servants, I said 53% of the budget will go towards civil servants salaries and we are in discussions as to how best to manage the next round of adjustments.
There is the issue of agricultural support; the Ministry that is going to receive the highest amount of support is the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement and Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. In terms of subsidies, already the Pfumvudza programme is subsidised and electricity is also subsidised. I hope some farmers here can confirm that we have been pricing electricity for the farming community at about three to four cents per kilowatt/compared to what for instance the mining companies are paying, which is closer to 10c per kilowatt/hour. Those are some of the subsidies that are going to the agricultural sector. We have not been subsidizing fertilizer for commercial farmers and this is something that we should work harder and see if we could spread those subsidies to other areas of the value chain for a typical farmer.
I now switch to Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira who agreed with Hon. Sen. Ndlovu on the need to work together and have this workshop done well before the usual retreat. We will find a slot at the risk of repeating Mr. President, to have this workshop where we can all discuss about our economy.
On the gold coins as well, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira, again I have elaborated on how it is assisting with mopping up liquidity and contributing to the stability that is much needed, and then assisting with school fees and raising salaries for civil servants, again I have tried to address that and this is always work in progress in a high inflationary environment.
When it came to agriculture, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira addressed a very important point that we often debate within Government, that of productivity. Our pricing models when we come up with producer prices for wheat, we usually target about four and half tons per hectare and that is low. I agree with you that it is low and we should work harder at improving productivity. That is the only way to realise higher profits. I know that the Ministry of Agriculture tries to work hard to capacitate their Agricultural Extension Service employees and so forth. They need to call them Business Support Services now, to really tell the farmers that at the end of the day farming is a business, it is not a social programme and it should be treated as such.
I hope that over time this will go a long away in improving productivity within agriculture in general. I think what is key is to make sure that we move more towards market determined prices as opposed to us fixing prices even on a cost build up model, perhaps moving closer to the market is the way to go here so that the farmer can maximise benefit from their sweat. You made a broader point about Africa’s performance in agriculture. We are now getting support from others and from countries that have got less fertile land. So Africa has the largest land mass that is available for agriculture, the whole world over, 60% of land for agriculture is available in Africa and yet we tend to beg for food and those are the facts, we tend to beg food from others. So, something ought to be done and it can be done fast and we should not be starving when we have so much fertile land in Africa. So, I agree with you.
Hon. Sen. Mwonzora said the budget needs to deal with welfare issues like poverty alleviation. That is why we are focusing strongly on the social protection agenda within this budget and a good part of the budget has gone towards that. I must hasten to say, remember this is a supplementary budget, in fact on the point of job creation which is a very important point - it is a supplementary budget to a budget that already exists. It is supplementing what you already approved in December last year. We have not changed those policies but we are just supplementing it but when it comes to job creation for example, we had already approved for instance among the youth, this tax rebate programme for companies that employ anyone below the age of 35 including the disabled. So that has not changed and all we are doing is to support that kind of policy until we change it but it is still in place. Perhaps in November we could look at other programmes. For example, I have received representation from the youth who have said we want to be employed but we also want to be entrepreneurs – Hon. Minister, why do you not introduce a duty rebate system for companies that are owned by the youth so that they get certain rebates when they import certain raw materials. All those are suggestions that we are mulling over, let us see where we end up in November.
You also raised the issue of collateral for agriculture loans which I said there is a Government guarantee and so I need clarity as to why they are demanding further collateral. Maybe there is something that is not adequately covered by the Government guarantee that we needed to fix. The issue of pensions is well noted again with that 53% of the budget being spent, I said civil servants, it also includes a pension support in Parliament.
Let me say more on the issue of the youth. I mentioned the rebate programme for companies that employ the youth. Recently, we also operationalised the Youth in Mining Programme where certain pieces of land has been set aside in every province to support any youth who wish to go into mining and they approach the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development through the various provincial offices to see where they should go to exploit those mining opportunities. This was pronounced formally by Government about a month ago.
Hon. Sen. Chirongoma raised the issue on equitable treatment between maize and tobacco. It is a fair point that is why I said earlier that we just need to move towards market determined prices the same way that tobacco farmers enjoy the market determined prices. That is the way to go over time and move away from dictating specific prices because we get the prices wrong. All we should do as Government is agree on a minimum support price but above that price, a farmer is free to sell their maize at market to realise maximum gain. The same applies to wheat that you mentioned.
The programme for support for teachers of making sure that up to three children in their family can attend state schools with a subsidy of up to ZWL20 000 per child, that programme has started. It has begun in earnest. It took a while because there were some administrative hitches but it has started and that benefit is being extended to teachers. We did announce a package that included institutional accommodation, support for transportation and importation of a car duty free and so forth. There is a package that we hope over time, we will supplement the monetary benefits.
Hon. Sen. Dube welcomed that budget and that we should work together which I agree. We should work together because this budget is all ours. On the issue of inflation chewing up the value of the money that is released and the need to release these monies as soon as possible, I agree with this. The issue is the availability of cash. As soon as the cash is available, it is released and we try to make progress.
On the issue of banks and collateral demands from the youth and women entrepreneurs; this is not helpful but there is need to give them more resources. This we have done and we are going to give more resources to these two banks. We are also aware of the strides that the Ministry of Youth is making towards restructuring the bank and making sure that it is more effective. The Women’s Bank has always been a good performer, of course they should make loans cheaper for you and it is quite important for women entrepreneurs. In terms of its performance as a bank, we feel that is well managed and we keep giving them additional resources from time to time.
Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema raised the issue of cement selling at different prices from two domestic suppliers such as PPC and La Farge. That is the issue of exchange rate instability which we are dealing with. As the exchange rate stabilises, that disparity should go away and that is what we are working on.
On livestock support, you mentioned the January disease and I am pleased to report that we have started producing the vaccines for the January disease commercially. Previously, the bulk of it was imported and we are now producing it locally and then we move on to produce other vaccines. We are investing quite a bit in research and development in vaccine production.
On the various taxes for framers, some of these are not really taxes which I collect but it is Government nonetheless, either central or local. I agree with you that perhaps there is a multiplicity of levies and taxes and sometimes the farmer feels very choked before they even think about fertilizer inputs. Perhaps over time, we need to commission some kind of analysis and try to understand the various levies and taxes that the farmers are paying and see where we can alleviate some pressure on the farmer. This is well noted.
Hon. Sen. Chief Gezi talked about the welfare of chiefs and access to certain equipment like tractors. This we will look into as a target group going forward.
I think I have tried to cover all the questions and queries and I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 40 and schedule, put and agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chair. Regarding Clauses 2 and 3, it is necessary for us to make sure that there is no confusion in interpretation by our tax practitioners at ZIMRA and other places, so it will be necessary to make what we call a notice of advice so that we make sure that confusion is removed. The Bill is passed as the Chair has advised. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I was just making reference to the Fifth Schedule, subsection 6, where it speaks about disagreement between Houses. This House has recommended what the Minister has introduced to say that we need to clean up those two clauses. So when we transmit it to the National Assembly, it will be a recommendation to the National Assembly because in the Constitution it says we do not make amendments if it is a money Bill. So when the Clerk transmits, he will then have to indicate that the Senate is recommending that it be in the manner that the Minister has presented. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Can the Hon. Minister please repeat so that we can understand what he was trying to say.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Basically if you check on the Bill, go to Clause 3 and look at the first line. We have got those six bands each with various tax rates that apply. For instance, from the first band which is 0 to 900, that tax rate is zero. What happens is, that figure is expressed in normal annual terms, which is a calendar term of 12 months. However, the tax experts distinguish between a calendar year from a tax year. So, the tax year because we have a supplementary budget which kicks in on 1st August, they will split our calendar year of 2022 into two tax years for assessment. The first tax year is the first seven months to end of July; the second tax year is from 1st August to 31st December, 2022. So it is seven months and five months respectively. That interpretation can cause a lot of confusion to tax practitioners. We just want to make sure they are not confused. What they should do when they interpret the law is, when they consider the 0% tax threshold, it is not to consider the 900 but to consider 375 because it is only five months of the year that are left. It is not the whole 12 months, “kwasara five months chete.” It is a notice of recommendation to the Lower House to amend these numbers accordingly to avoid confusion in interpretation. Thank you.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments but with notice of recommendation to the National Assembly.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9A, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President Sir, I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
SECOND READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 8, 2022]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Appropriation (Supplementary) Bill [H. B. 8, 2022].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, due to the inflationary pressures that are upon this economy, mainly driven by external and some internal factors linked to the exchange rate, we are now collecting more revenue than anticipated, but also our expenses as Government have gone up again commensurately with the same inflation. They have gone up to a point where there is need for us to come before this House and seek permission to spend the extra revenue to meet the extra expenses.
I am therefore coming before this House to request that this House allows us to spend an extra ZWL851 billion. These resources are mainly targeted at the social aspects of our public expenditure protecting the vulnerable but also to support our hard working civil servants. Fifty-three per cent of the budget, in fact will be targeted towards public sector wages - including pensions, including those who are in this august House.
Some of the resources will be spent towards supporting agriculture, our inputs programme which supports the vulnerable. Some of the resources will also be spent on completing some of our important infrastructure projects. All this is necessary for Government to achieve its goals, Mr. President; all which are enshrined in our NDS1 overall but were in the budget in the first place. We need to achieve those targets.
So I am coming before this House to seek that appropriations be made to the order of ZWL851 billion in various sectors. When you look at which sectors we are targeting, in fact I would say which Ministries are now the implementing agencies, it is the Ministry of Education, Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Ministry of Health and Child Care and then obviously if you check within each Ministry right across, we have got the salaries of civil servants which are spread across. They are not sitting in one Ministry but are spread across Ministries. You will find out where this 53% of the supplementary budget is sitting.
So the top absorber of these resources in Ministries is Education and Agriculture. We also have set aside some resources for the back pocket as we call it or the unallocated reserves and this will go towards supporting the various needs that are unforeseen and in the Lower House; I must add that we have already started chipping away at this unallocated reserve to support certain areas such as for instance prison support services and infrastructure to support the work of this august House, the Constituency Development Fund for the Members of Parliament in constituencies and allowances from the Members of Parliament including the development of constituency offices.
So Mr. President, that is how we intend to make use of this supplementary budget to supplement what we had already budgeted for in November last year for the 2022 budget, but we are now making extra resources available to meet the extra expenses on the back of the extra revenue.
Mr. President, I must end up by saying in so doing, we will remain fiscally prudent. We will continue to live within our means and we are still on target for achieving our budget deficit target of 1.5% of GDP. We do not intend to go above that. Certainly, doing it while knowing that we are doing it, that is not my intention. We will stay within that prudent target. I thank you.
HON. SEN. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. Just a quick one to the Minister, he indicated that he wants to spend the excess revenue collection on infrastructure development and there are projects that have been abandoned by service providers and in his budget, he is indicating that 53% is going towards salaries and various other Ministries that he mentioned like Agriculture.
I just wanted to find out if the infrastructure development which actually provides livelihoods for some communities and have been abandoned, whether his budget has factored that in that they have got to resume and that those projects are going to be completed. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you very much Mr. President. When you look at the public sector salaries, I anticipate to see that they earn salaries that are above the poverty datum line. I just want to mention the issue of review of their salaries. There are those people who so much deserve to get assistance like civil servants; they are getting very little income. We are happy with what the Minister of Transport is doing but there are areas in rural areas that need to be worked on. It is our anticipation that in Lupane, Nkayi and Zaka, the roads must be rehabilitated because they are in a bad state.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Mr. President. Are our hospitals going to be equipped with medication because now we hear that even panadols are out of stock? I also want to know children who are on BEAM, their fees have not been paid. Are they going to get the necessary assistance? During our tour to schools, we noticed that there is always a delay in paying for BEAM children. Although it was agreed that no child will be chased away from school, we observed that schools continue to send children home for non-payment of fees. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. We are having problems with user ministries and departments. We have passed budgets for other ministries to receive money whilst other projects are not receiving anything. Without mentioning names, we are having unpaid people who would have finished doing their jobs but others are getting advance payment without first doing anything. If there are people who have worked for the development of the nation, these people should be paid. This is what is taking us back as a country. Some projects are paid and others are ignored; we need to look closely at that. What methodology are we using as a country? Some people are considered more equal than others. We have companies that have done their work and it is now four years without being paid. Others are getting money daily going to the black market, this is disappointing.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I thank you Mr. President. As citizens, we are concerned with the budget because the disbursements are not done in time. At the end of the day, if disbursements are delayed and considering this inflation, by the time they get the money there will be no money to talk about.
Secondly, on AFC and CBZ, we do not know exactly which one to approach for loans. If you go to AFC, they will say go to CBZ and vice versa. At the end of the day, people are not helped. Hon. Senators who are here need loans to buy inputs but it is not clear on where to go and borrow. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. The figures that we are looking at, the salaries of the civil servants, are you sure that they will be given money that is above the poverty datum line because that is what we are looking forward to? Are farmers going to be paid good money so that they get profit and will be able to go back to the fields? The money that pensioners are getting does not last two days; did you consider pensioners in your budget? This affects us as parliamentarians too because we are also employees. It is said that one can only get pension after they have served two terms. After five years, you can lose your job. Is that factoring that if you have only worked for five years you should go on full pension and get benefits that are equivalent to the work. Also, the workers that are here should get a chance of getting loans so that they can construct houses. We know that there is a provision that we can get stands but if I work for five years and when I am given a stand, I will not be able to construct a structure at that stand. I think everyone should be able to construct a four roomed house. In Nigeria after every five years, a new MP gets a house which has been built but those who come back for the second term do not get a house. This is very good because for a Member of Parliament who has worked for five years, when they go back to the rural areas they should not stay in places which are not inhabitable. I think we should be able to build houses so that we live well.
The other issue is of electricity challenges. We have a lot of black-outs in the country. I have seen the figures, is there anything that can be done on having more electricity? I do not know if that figure is enough for us to get more electricity, or even to buy from Zambia and Mozambique.
Mr. President, the other thing that I have seen is the small figure on houses. We have a lot of backlog of people who do not have houses. I once heard other workers saying, ‘if we go to the new Parliament, how are we going to get to our residence from the new Parliament?’ Can they not build two roomed houses for us there so that when we finish work late, then we have somewhere to put up? I think we should look into that as well. It cannot be a big house but there should be some form of accommodation because from here to the new Parliament, it is going to be a new challenge. I have seen that these figures on housing are small. I think we should make the lives of our workers easier. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President for this opportunity. Also, I want to thank the Hon. Minister of Finance for this supplementary budget. Looking at the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, I want to focus on prisons. As a Committee, we had an opportunity to tour our prisons focusing on women who are incarcerated and staying with children in prison and those who are pregnant as well. We have seen that the way they are staying there is not proper. Also, the food that is being given to children is not good because they are sharing food with their mothers. I urge the Minister to look for ways to look after the children that are in prison together with their parents so that they are also not incarcerated together with their parents. I think the Minister should channel money so that the Ministry can get healthy food for them. Also, when women are in labour, they face some challenges. The Hon. Minister should look into that so that there are ambulances to ferry those women to hospitals. I thank you.
+HON.SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to talk to the Minister of Finance. Bulawayo is dry, there is no water, people can go for a month without getting water from the taps but there is an old project where we are supposed to get water from Zambezi. It is supposed to cover the green belt. My plea is, if the Hon. Minister can look into this because people are going to suffer from many diseases like cholera and other waterborne diseases. Hon. Minister, please try and do something about the water system in Bulawayo.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I want to thank the Members of this august House for the comments and questions. Let me start with Hon. Sen. Ndlovu regarding the abandoned projects that need to be resumed and that some of these projects are for social development. Yes, we are aware of these projects and some of them were abandoned because of priorities by ministries or Ministers because they change. These things happened but for this supplementary budget, we have set aside a budget of ZWL44.7 billion for road rehabilitation in addition to the current budget. We believe this will go a long way in resumption of those projects.
Mr. President, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira talked about cushioning the vulnerable, yes and again the supplementary budget covers the vulnerable. For social protection, we have set aside ZWL34.4 billion and for BEAM, it is ZWL14.9 billion. Then the issue of resources for the road rehabilitation, I have tried to address that from the question by Hon. Ndlovu but I think Hon. Chief Charumbira, some of these projects are multi-year projects. They cannot be perhaps completed in one year and will spread over a couple of years. However, the faster we do them, the better. While the amount here is important for us to do them quickly but we hope these resources will go a long way tin that resumption.
From Hon. Sen. Muzenda regarding the health sector, yes we have added another ZWL62,2 billion towards supporting the health sector. This will go a long way in the quest to procure drugs and much needed medicines and support for the health sector. For the BEAM programme, as I have mentioned, we have allocated ZWL414, 9 billion an additional budget for the programme.
Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe mentioned the issue of use of resources by some ministries where you find that they favour certain contractors, paying them for doing nothing. They are paid deposits upfront and those contractors do not deliver and some are not paid anything at or some late. Those who are actually doing well are paid late. That is why we have now introduced the value for money concept or process where we want to check every contract for proper pricing, quality of the contractor and then we also follow up as they perform. So every time they submit an invoice on the same contract, we check more carefully what is going on from now on to make sure that they deliver value for money and produce keep moving forward.
Hon. Sen. Mohadi on disbursements being slow, we agree they have been slow and our difficulty has been the cash availability. We live within our means, using the cash that we collect to support these projects. So there are certain delays that happen because we need to find the cash even though the budget has been allocated. We seek to do better on this, going forward.
Then this confusion mentioned by Hon. Sen. Mohadi between AFC and CBZ that borrowers do not know who to go to. Frankly, we are supporting both. Our hope was, previously we had only CBZ and now we have two and any other basic house beginning to support agriculture. We thought this was better but now it is creating confusion, so maybe I will need to have a word with the Minister of Agriculture on how best to direct potential borrowers in terms of which bank they should go to. Our thought was either bank should be able to support. They both received a Government Guarantee to support farmers but we seek to do better on service delivery in support of farmers.
From Hon. Komichi on whether some of the adjustments which we are talking about which shall likely be covered by this supplementary budget support, will that get to PDL. Typically, we target 75% of the PDL. Our intention is to get to that 75% of PDL as we do these adjustments. Why do we target 75%? We always feel that as economists, if we get to 100% and we try to match, we will actually end up fuelling inflation. As soon as we announce a salary increase, prices go up before you even pay. We try to manage that way. I do not know whether we are very successful because just a mere announcement does stuff, but we target 75% of PDL.
Are we able to cover prices for pensioners and agriculture through this budget? Yes, we will adjust the pensions and also try to improve the prices for farmers. On the pensions for Senators, currently the rule is that you are pensionable after two terms and same applies to the Members of the Lower House. We had a robust debate in the Lower House and we felt that on this issue, we needed to consult further with the Public Service Commission that manages the pension account. As experts, they felt that they were going to be some actuarial difficulties if we moved quickly to one term. They feel that two terms is what they can sustain, given what is in that fund but we agreed in the Lower House. I hope I can seek your agreement here as well that let us continue to discuss this issue and have an agreement in November. If it is one term, hopefully we can agree on that and it becomes one term.
Other MPs raised other issues, for instance as to what should happen when a spouse dies for example, how to access their pension. There was an issue that I wanted to bring forward to the House and thought I would drop it in this budget which had to do with Members of Parliament, some of them are now Senators, who have served continuously for more than two terms. So they have been contributing a pension and before you know it, and God forbid, someone passes on. All they have been doing is contributing but have not drawn down on that pension. They have not benefitted. What should happen in that situation?
I propose that there should be an age limit or triggering age where beyond that age, they can start drawing down on their pension but continue serving as Senators or MPs because we cannot punish someone for being liked by people and they keep being re-elected and we say you cannot benefit. Actually, they should be rewarded for winning elections continuously. Those are some of the issues that are emerging Mr. President. I am proposing that we should have a robust debate with Members of this august House and the Lower House as well on this issue. Whatever advice you give us; I will take back to the Public Service Commission for that adequate support regarding pension.
On issues of stands, this is an issue. I also feel that this issue we could have handled it a lot better and a lot earlier because in the last Parliament, we were aware that members of this House were allocated stands. It has taken a while to get those stands serviced but even to know where they are. Sometimes you pinpointed to a hill in Shawasha or somewhere in Mashonaland Central but even I do not know where it is and I live in that area. I think that needs to be cleaned up. We are working hard on it and hopefully we will do so in the next few months.
The other one is for those sitting in this Parliament, they also need their stands. Ideas are emerging where there is a proposal to say look perhaps we should come up with a limit and say allow Members of Parliament to buy a stand or access a loan to build on a stand up to a certain threshold. Some figure that we think is manageable from the budget but you should be able to find a stand anywhere. Of course, some of you do not live here so it will be advisable to find a stand here in Harare so that when you build, you can live on that property.
There are other ideas perhaps just saying look target purchase of an apartment for example. I am also hearing ideas around setting aside land in the new city near the new Parliament; again to give you stands over there or just build accommodation. This issue needs to be resolved. I do not think we have really begun to have a robust debate on this issue of supporting members in this Parliament and I will be the first one to admit that. We need to grab the bull by the horns and support our Hon. Members.
On the issue of electricity supply that was raised by Hon. Komichi on Hwange 7 and 8, Unit 7 is coming on stream by year end and Unit 8 should be the first quarter of next year. That should improve power supply and that is being funded through a loan from China, as you are aware. The refurbishment on Kariba Dam is going well and again, we expect power supply to improve over time. Also, the independent power producing companies those producing power from coal in Hwange, we are seeing an increase in their sale of electricity to the grid. Some of the independent power producers are mini-hydro operators.
I know Nyangani independent power producer which is operating from Honde Valley has various projects and are increasing their sell of power on to the grid. We are also trying to conclude what is called a Government implemented agreement which will support investors in solar power. It is a special type of arrangement where we guarantee three things; a good tariff and they want a tariff of the order of 9,5 cents per kilowatt hour, a Government guarantee in the case that ZESA cannot pay for the electricity Government must step in and pay, and they want us to guarantee what we call access and currency convertibility, foreign currency that is, so that if they have borrowed money to invest over here in Zimbabwe, they should be able to access forex to service those loans. So, they want three things and we are finalising those agreements to support solar energy producers and investors. That is a package which I think will go a long way in improving our power supply.
Then you also raised the issue of housing but housing is an issue of a shared opportunity with the private sector through mortgage arrangements with financing institutions. So, the burden is not just on the fiscus but it is about structuring the right arrangement for resources to be accessed from the private sector such as banks and pension funds. I think more of that will deliver more housing rather than direct housing provided by Government. However, provision of housing in the cantonment areas has to be Government and we are doing that already. You have seen some of the work that we have done in Chikurubi Prison. I went there for a tour with the Minister of Justice so we could see what was going on there. We have started some positive things and some of the housing that we have begun to deal with is at William Ndangana Barracks in Manicaland. We have plans to also work on the institutional housing for Amaganya Barracks in Plumtree and work on the officers’ barracks in Senga in Gweru. Then you look at the defence forces here in Harare; we have housing developments, we are making in the Dzivarasekwa area. So, a lot is happening on the institutional front but I think for the rest of the housing stock, we need to partner as Government with the private sector, pension funds and mortgage companies. We will deliver more houses rather than just relying on the fiscus.
Then from Hon. Sen. Hungwe, the budget for prisons focusing on the issue of imprisoned mothers with children is very important and I was whispering to my Hon. friend here that perhaps we should virement our Justice budget a little bit to focus on that critical area. Certainly, it is a very good and important issue that you raised. In fact, in the Lower House, when we came to the Ministry of Justice, I agreed that we raise the budget by ZW$1 billion so as to cater for the prison service issues that you have raised.
Hon. Sen. Khumalo, on the issue of water for Bulawayo, you said taps are dry. There are maybe three things. First of all, the issue of water transmission within the city is actually an issue for the City Council and it is an issue of supporting the City Council of Bulawayo to upgrade the reticulation infrastructure. We supported them when they acquired the facility from the active Robben bank which has gone a long way in upgrading water infrastructure within the city and lowering the seepage of water from taps, et cetera. Then the second issue is providing raw water, which basically is a Central Government issue or ZINWA issue. So for that one, we have drilled the boreholes in the Nyamandlovu aquifer, which should increase the supply of raw water to the City of Bulawayo to 53million mega litres of water a day. That is what should be happening but we are aware that because of power outages, the boreholes go down and there is no water. We hear those things but technically there is enough water down the aquifer and those are deep boreholes going down 100m to 120m. I went there to see that myself and spent a lot of time because I knew it was a very important issue. However, what we need to do is to build a water reservoir then we can pump water into that reservoir and also create a green belt in that area so that water does not just leave the area for Bulawayo and the villagers there do not benefit anything. That will also cause us another problem. So, I am acutely aware of that. The third point I want to mention is the Zambezi Water Project, which…
Phone rings.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order Hon. Members. Hon. Senators, when I tell you to put your phones on silent I mean it.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Coming to my third point on the Zambezi Water Project, that is also a kind of multi-stage project. Firstly, it is about the project for impounding water in the dam. There is good progress in terms of building the Gwayi-Shangani Dam. It is moving quite well. I have been there a couple of times already. Others have also been there including His Excellency the President and the Minister responsible for water, Hon. Dr. Masuka.
The second phase is the pipeline, which has started. We have companies that are laying down the pipes all the way down towards the Nyamadhlovu area then from there it will go on to the City of Bulawayo. So, that is progressing and the idea is that we will create a green belt along the area as we move along that pipeline so that citizens do not see water escaping to other areas and at the end of day, do not benefit anything. It is a very important project and I can assure you that we are onto it. We will do the right thing. I thank you Hon. President Sir and I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 8, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 5 and Schedule, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 8, 2022].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, the House adjourned at Four Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 1st September, 2022.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
COMMITTEE STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9, 2022]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Finance Bill [H. B. 9, 2022].
House in Committee.
On Clause 7:
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think what we need to find out from the Hon. Minister, we do not have a problem in terms of the validation of reduction in terms of levies pertaining to the cost of fuel but I think what we need the Hon. Minister is probably to lay before this House in terms of the NOCZIM debt that we have been contributing on the fuel? How much is still outstanding? For how long are we going to pay for it? What other levies still exist on our fuel component and how long will we continue to manage them? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Hon. Chair, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the intervention. I will be very happy to bring a statement to explain the exact levels that are in place but also the extent to which we have managed to extinguish the NOCZIM levy. I am happy to bring that information. This Clause was just merely to validate some of the Statutory Instruments that we used for bailing the fuel levy so as to reduce the impact of the global fuel prices on the domestic prices. I thank you.
Clause 7, put and agreed to.
Clauses 8 to 17 put and agreed to.
On Clause 18:
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, we have got a challenge as we alluded to during the Second Reading. This clause to suspend the collection of tax on exportation of unbeneficiated platinum, we do not believe and I think the Hon. Minister is aware. In 2019, we had a same clause in his Finance Bill and we were told that the platinum miners were going to come up with a refinery of platinum by 2021. We do not want to believe that we should continue to allow these miners and I think Hon. Members, well pertaining to how much these platinum mining companies are actually switching and taking advantage of Zimbabweans. We cannot therefore allow a question that will suspend the operations or the collection of tax on exported raw platinum.
Hon. Biti, during the Second Reading, highlighted that we have got Bindura platinum that could actually do the processing and we do not understand why the Hon. Minister, when he is busy looking for revenue to finance the budget - remember we are doing a supplementary budget. Supplementary budget means that our initial budget was not well funded. To that extent, we will not want to have a situation where revenue which is supposed to come from these miners can actually be suspended. There is no justification and no reason. Accordingly, I urge the House to actually support that the Minister should delete this proposal from this Finance Bill because it will not help us as a country.
These miners need to contribute and contribute massively to the fiscus. They are taking everything, platinum, gold, lithium and other minerals that they are not declaring. So we cannot allow it to happen. I thank you.
(v)HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I need to concur with Hon. Mushoriwa in that we must be locking at resource mobilisation. We know we had a policy which spoke about resource mobilisation. Resource mobilisation was about us mobilising resources with what we have. For now, it is the minerals which are doing well. Platinum is doing well in terms of the world market prices, so is Lithium. Chrome as well, you find it in Zimbabwe and gold. Why are we not building our resource mobilisation from that because that is the key to us breaking through and meeting all the economic challenges? There is no reason why Zimbabwe should be in this situation. We need to maximise and get as much as we can because like I said the other day, the Indigenisation Act has been suspended, it does not empower us at all and there is no law currently doing that. So this is the opportune time for us to craft this and to give a percentage. The Chinese themselves have said they have a lot of resources that they are mining in this country but we never know how much we are making out of them.
Finally, I want to ask the Minister from the resource mobilisation strategy that we have how much was mobilised. We need to know that and that is a basis for us to say should we take more or less but for now it seems there is no figure. . So I totally support that this is the time that Zimbabweans build their own country through the resources that we have. So we must make no apology. If they say that they have put in more money in terms of the Finance Bill when the direct investments were there to say no the Zimbabwean structure in terms of doing business is not good and 51, 49 is not good. Let it be suspended.
The Finance Bill can even be suspended but there is still no improvement traction in terms of us maximising, getting the money. So they lied to us when they said they were going to put money. When we relaxed and said the Indigenisation Bill must not be there, what have they put in and look at what was put in when it was there. So I totally concur, we must maximise on this.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: In view of what Hon. Mliswa has just said and Hon. Mushoriwa, we talk about gold, platinum and nickel. Could the Minister also explain to us when it comes to beneficiation and also when it comes to the mining rights, what is the national fiscus actually receiving from diamonds? I see no taxes on diamonds, I see virtually nothing being brought into the fiscus by diamonds but at Chiadzwa - we have mining going on full steam ahead. We have large private aircrafts flying in and out weekly there. What is the country and even the local people of Chiadzwa benefiting from the diamonds? What have we got in terms of royalties, what have we got in terms of processing? Could the Minister explain to us why we are actually mining the diamonds because I see nothing in the national fiscus to our benefit? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions; very important indeed. I recognise Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Markham. They were making similar contributions. They were basically arguing that we should not suspend this beneficiation tax. It should be maintained because they believe that the mining sector is not contributing enough to our revenue raising efforts.
Colleagues, we really took time to think through this as Treasury, as Government and consulted widely. Also, I urge Hon. Members to read this clause as they consider it combined with Clauses 31 and 32 which pertain to the increase in the royalty for platinum sector and lithium from 2% to 5% because those were considered together. Although they sit apart in the Bill, those really go together in terms of the analysis.
So we consulted widely, the industry itself and then ZIDA in terms of those who spend time trying to attract investment and then what we saw that this beneficiation tax was found to be punitive, it was discouraging investment and therefore it had to go. We then argued as Government to say no, we cannot just remove this then we need some compensation elsewhere. We then proposed that we want to raise the royalty. So that again we workshopped with the industry.
In addition to that, I invited the IMF, the Fiscal Affairs Department in Washington to do an analysis of the fiscal regime for our mining sector and lo and behold, they came up with a similar proposal which is; suspend this beneficiation tax but then increase the royalty. Initially they had a high figure, so we ended up settling on a royalty of 5%. So if we could rise together, I think we have made progress. On the royalty, we will be getting those resources for sure, but on a beneficiation tax you only get that from selected mines that have not complied by the royalty, it is a sure thing. Of course, we could argue about the level of the royalty. Members could make a contribution on that but I think on the issue of the beneficiation tax, this decision was taken in order to really ease the environment for doing business. It was felt that its presence was prejudicing and discouraging investment. I thank you.
Clause 18 put and agreed to.
Clauses 19 to 21 put and agreed to.
(v)HON. ZUVA: On a point of order. My point of order is, the Minister did not…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): May I order Hon. Zuva on line to please either come to the House because we cannot even see you on the system here – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. My point of order is, let us respect Hon. Members who want to debate. I am sure as a House, we appreciate that we use the hybrid system. So those who are on line, if they want to debate, let us give them a chance. This thing of saying you are not here, so you cannot debate is not the way to go Hon. Chair. Let us harmonise our debates and move on smoothly. We have been doing a good thing from yesterday and there is no need to be emotional about this thing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Disorder in the House
On Clause 21:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move the motion standing in my name that:
21 Amendment of section 38 of Cap. 23:12
(1) With effect from the 22nd February, 2019, section 38 (“Manner in which tax shall be paid”) (4) of the Value Added Tax Act [Chapter 23:12] is amended by the deletion of “section 41 of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter 22:15]” and the substitution of “section 41 and 44C of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter22:15]”.
(2) For the avoidance of doubt, it is declared that Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 does not override an express statutory provision of an Act of Parliament contrary to its provisions, there being nothing in the enabling provision under which that Statutory Instrument was made (section 64 of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter 22:15]) to the effect that regulations made thereunder shall or may have that effect; accordingly section 38 of the Value Added Tax Act [Chapter 23:12] cannot be construed in a manner that—
(a) puts into question the lawfulness of the receipt by a registered operator of foreign currency in payment for goods and services supplied by the operator; or
(b) relieves a registered operator of liability to pay in foreign currency for goods and services paid for in foreign currency that were supplied by the operator, as required section 38 of the Value Added Tax Act [Chapter 23:12].
HON. BITI: Section 21 is a dog’s breakfast. What does it mean? What is the Minister trying to do in Section 21? I just want to read. It says “For the avoidance of doubt, it is declared that Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 does not override an express statutory provision of an Act of Parliament contrary to its provisions, there being nothing in the enabling provision under which that Statutory Instrument was made (section 64 of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Act [Chapter 22:15]) to the effect that regulations made thereunder shall or may have that effect;..” Accordingly, section 38 of the Value Added Tax Act [Chapter 23:12] cannot be construed in a manner that puts into question the lawfulness of the receipt. Is this a head of argument? Are we before a Judge? What is the Minister trying to do in an Act of Parliament? This country is governed by the principle of legality. The principle of legality means a law must be clear and straight forward so that the ordinary average citizen understands of what is happening. What is the meaning of Section 21? It is a total dog’s breakfast. Is it a head of argument? Are we in a court of law? What is the law that he is trying to do here? What is he trying to say here? Even my own dog will touch this section. It does not mean anything – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - What is the Minister trying to do in this section? I seek clarification.
HON TOGAREPI: With all due respect Hon. Biti may not have understood that clause but the repeat of the word “dog” is not parliamentary for him to be doing that. It is an insult. He must withdraw that.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Member for that intervention and for seeking clarification. It looks very wordy and dense but the intention is very simple. The simplicity is this way. In the VAT Act, the definition and recognition of electronic currency as legal tender was not aligned to the Reserve Bank Act where that definition of electronic currency and legal tender is well defined. This is as of 1 February 2019. All this clause is trying to do is just trying to align the VAT Act to the Reserve Bank Act in recognition of electronic currency. That is all. It looks very wordy and complex but all it is trying to achieve is definition and recognition alignment. I thank you.
HON. BITI: But it is not doing what he is saying. If he wanted the clause to do what he is saying, then he would say, for the purposes of VAT Section 44 (c) of the Reserve Bank Act shall apply. Put differently we can levy charges in US dollars or in multiple currencies. He can say that and also in electronic currency. That is what he needs to say. It is not saying that. It is not his problem – [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - let me debate. You do not understand these issues. It is not the draftsman, so this provision needs to be withdrawn and re-drafted in proper, simple English. Right now it does not make sense, it is meaningless; you do not draft heads of arguments in an Act of Parliament – you do not do that. So, he should not inherit the baby that is not his, this baby is a bastard child. Let the draftsman take responsibility of his actions.
HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order! The way we are talking in this House is unparliamentary. When we talk about a bastard, a dog’s breakfast, I do not think we know what we are doing. Can the Hon. Biti withdraw his statement?
HON. BITI: Dogs breakfast is a metaphor; there is nothing offensive about it. Dog’s breakfast simply means something that is confused; that is normal, ordinary English. If the Hon. Matangira does not understand that, it is not my fault. If he did not study William Shakespeare, that is not my fault – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I think as a learned friend, Hon. Biti should just take his time. I would like to urge my learned friend just to take time to go through that phrase. If you read the first paragraph, it says ‘with effect from the 22nd February 2019, Section 28, the manner in which tax shall be paid, which is in the currency of trade of the VAT Tax Act is amended by the deletion of Section 41 of the Reserve Bank Act and the substitution of Section 41 and Section 44 (C) of the Reserve Bank Act’.
We are saying that for avoidance of doubt, just in case anyone is in doubt, you then go on to add that paragraph 2, that is all. This is just to elaborate. You will realise this paragraph is okay, it is very wordy and there is nothing wrong with it, I know in certain terms it is unnecessary. I thank you.
HON. BITI: The esteemed Minister says that subsection 2 is for the avoidance of doubt. It is an explanatory note. So, if you are now going to explain, you must actually make it simpler so that a person understands.
The explanation must add value, so I have no problem with section 25 (1). My point of attack is section 25 (2) which says, ‘for the avoidance of doubt, it is declared that Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 does not override an express statutory provision in an Act of Parliament’. Let us stop there Hon. Chair.
What this paragraph is saying is that a statutory instrument cannot override an Act of Parliament but why does that thing need to be in an Act of Parliament? We all know here as Members of Parliament that a statutory instrument cannot override an Act of Parliament. So why do we need to put it here? What is it helping? This is a law; it is an Act of Parliament. So the problem is not him, the problem is the person who drafted this Statutory Instrument, just leave Section 25 (1), that is the law. The explanation is not necessary. If you want to put an explanation and if you go to this Bill, there are explanatory notes that are written. That is where you put the explanation. In a court of law now, in interpreting a provision, you are allowed to go to the explanatory notes but you do not put the explanation in the provisions, it is a draftsman issue, not the Hon. Minister’s problem.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Chair let us just delete. The drafter wanted to make sure that there is no avoidance of doubt but if there is a feeling that this does not add value, we just delete it, that’s all. I thank you.
We are deleting Clause 21 (2) of paragraph 2 which begins, ‘For the avoidance of doubt…’ We can cut and paste it on to the explanations at the back. That is in order. I thank you
Amendment to Clause 21 put and agreed to.
Clause 21, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 22:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. This clause, Hon. Members once debated it in the Second Reading. The basis upon which we disagree with this provision is that paying tax is a civil matter. It is wrong to criminalise someone who has failed to pay his/her tax. It is wrong to sent someone to prison primarily because you have taken it as a criminal matter. You will note that in terms of taxation in this country, everybody knows that as Zimbabweans, we are one of the highly taxed people in the world.
Naturally, the provision that is in place is sufficient. There is no need to criminalise non-payment of taxes. Let us make sure that we continue with the civil penalties that are currently in existence. They are sufficient. If they are not sufficient, this is where we then would ask the Hon. Minister to bring in the ZIMRA Amendment Bill so that at least we could try by all means to enhance measures to make sure that the processes of taking vetting taxes from people or companies becomes easier. Where we need to give ZIMRA and the tax man some teeth, let us give the tax man some teeth, but let us not do it in a manner which contradicts with the principles of civil issues. There is no criminal element in all this. Failure to pay tax and I think the Hon. Minister will agree that this section, we need to remove the criminal element and then we come back with a proper Bill before this House to deal with issues pertaining to the challenges where a person is failing to pay tax. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I stand to add to this section which we are dealing with, Section 22. It is very painful for us as blacks in our lives. What it means is, your employer may delay to give you a salary but it becomes your fault at the end of the day. The sentence is just too much, two years in jail is not practical. I think the Minister needs to re-visit and make it a civil case and not make it a criminal offence for failing to pay taxes. Some of us as employers are struggling to pay those taxes. So I think we must find a way of making those people pay taxes instead of imprisoning them.
If someone gets their money from a company, if someone had paid the money from somewhere else and they fail to pay the tax, surely they need to pay their taxes. If you send them to jail, we would have destroyed many families because of one person. What I think is, we have real criminals who are selling foreign currency and are not being arrested. They are causing the rise in inflation because they are selling money, but we have never heard that one of them was imprisoned. We are leaving them but someone who fails just to pay tax; we want to imprison him or her for two years. I think those who would have failed to pay taxes should be penalised by other means and not jail. Those who are selling money should be sent to jail, even for 10 years because if we do that to one person, it will deter the rest. We should do like what South Africa is doing and things will go well for us. I just wanted to add my voice to this section on criminalising those who fail to pay tax but I support that people should pay taxes. We should find ways to compel them to pay those taxes not sending them to jail because companies will close and many people will lose jobs. Many people will suffer. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Clause 22 that speaks to and about imprisonment of those that would have not paid tax; the Constitution of Zimbabwe is sui generis. It is in a class of its own. It is supreme and Section 2 says, “any Act of Parliament that is ultra vires the Constitution should be repudiated to the extent of its inconsistency”. It is my humble plea to the Hon. Minister, that we continue to align our Acts of Parliament to the Constitution. There is no dearth in Zimbabwe in terms of the law. We can use the Criminal Law Codification and Reform Act, in particular there are statutory bodies which do not remit their taxes for argument’s sake, may be they are supposed to remit their monies to ZIMRA and such like, those people should be criminalised. According to the Criminal Law Codification and Reform Act and Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, there is no dearth in terms of sections that can criminalise such people.
To then say for a civil debt or a contract that Government or ZIMRA has with business persons to criminalise. I will read verbatim, what the law says. Section 49(2) that deals in part with personal liberties actually goes on to say, “no persons may be in prisons mainly on the grounds of liability of inability to fulfill a contractual obligation”. It is cast in stone. If we are not happy with the law, we need to change the law. We cannot circumvent it and we are not here to change this law but to deal with delegated authority that the Minister seeks to impose. This is delegated authority and it is dead on arrival and should not see the light of day.
I urge the Minister to consider that there are a lot of laws that can deal with such delinquent behaviour of those that tried to circumvent the law but imprisonment is not part of them. Abuse of office and criminal or otherwise has its sentences that do not speak to and about the issue of section 49(2). I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I want to tell the Minister that the propensity of wanting to send someone to prison is not right. This is an issue of the taxes that sent us to war with the white settlers. It is an issue that you just did not perform the task according to what they want and they are now sending you to prison. This is exactly what sent us to war because they tell you that you failed to pay levy tax, you are now going to prison. This is the same with what the Minister has done. The Minister made just a slight mistake and did not understand the issues that he is dealing with. Can you tell us that we need to construct more prisons because people failed to pay tax? Two years in prison - mandatory.
I do not think this is fair. We want to prepare a good law. It seems as if you want to punish people. Minister, I do not think that there is a problem here. You can just stand up Minister and say I had made an error here and I cam correcting it. That will be all.
HON. BITI: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. The criminalisation of failure to pay tax is very regrettable. It is very wrong, particularly Value Added Tax which is what we are talking about. Value Added Tax is paid on the sale of goods or services and you know that the majority of our business in Zimbabwe, we actually operate on the basis of invoices that you issue out. Once you issue an invoice, then you wait for your customers or your clients to pay as Hon. Chinotimba stated. The law now says because we use an accrual system of accounting, the obligation to pay VAT does not arise on the payment of the invoice. The obligation to pay VAT arises upon the levying of the invoice. It is immediate.
Now you know Mr. Chairman that our economy is very difficult. You know that our people are struggling. You know that the economic climate is a challenged one. Many people are not paying their debts. The Government knows it, the RBZ knows it. The Government has just spent over US$2 billion purchasing non-performing loans from the banking sector. At some stage 79% of bank balance sheets were actually none performing loans. When we were young, we used to say musoro wakazara nezvikwereti. Most people in Zimbabwe are in debt, but the obligation to pay VAT would have arisen. So you are going to prosecute this poor business person who is unable to pay his VAT not because he does not want to pay but because his own customers have not paid. That is why we cannot criminalise. That is why we should not criminalise.
I know there are companies, if you take the Pick and Pays and OK Bazaars of this world, VAT is paid immediately. If such a customer does not pay VAT, the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority has been bestowed by operation of law with many legal instruments that allow them to get summary payment. One of the instruments is a garnish. So you can garnish immediately and many people have been garnished. That works and in summary, the garnish of the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority Mr. Chairman, does not require a court order, but the most important argument is that this is a civil obligation. Tax is a civil obligation. Let us leave the police out of taxes. Let us leave the State out of it. The only time where there is criminal liability is where there is tax evasion, where there is tax avoidance. That is a different category, but with VAT, you are an ordinary working business. Your people are not paying taxes.
I am a lawyer, we bill out. It takes an average of four months before an average invoice is paid out. So we have to fork out our own monies to pay the VAT. So Mr. Chairman, not only is this unconstitutional. I do not want to repeat the arguments that have been made by advocate Nduna and I want to commend him for grasping the principles very quickly, we are very proud of him. He has made a very solid argument on why you cannot criminalise civil obligations. It is a constitutional provision. Civil imprisonment has been outlawed as well as what the Minister is trying to do. But from an accounting point of view where we are using the accrual method of accounting, why are you penalising me when my clients have not paid?
Thirdly, it is common cause, Mr. Chairman that our economy is in a difficult situation. We know that the majority of our people are living in poverty, we know that. So we ask the Minister to drop this provision. The Zimbabwe Revenue Authority has sufficient instruments that have been used to recover taxes. That is why we are now 42 years of independence and there is no Minster of Finance and Economic Development who has tried to do what he is trying to do. That is why ZIMRA has been in existence since 1990 and it has not asked for those powers. They are totally unnecessary, they are totally illegal and they are totally unwise. I thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman Sir. I want to add my voice in respect of Clause No. 22 and the first point I want to make is that when you look closely at the intended provision and I would ask the Hon. Minister…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, you are on Clause 22. Can you sit down, I want the Minister to respond.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thought that in the spirit of cordiality I must save Hon. Gonese the pain of having to present a long argument. Hon. Chair, Members of this august House have made very eloquent arguments as to why we cannot proceed with this clause in its form. I thank Hon. Nduna and I have never heard him this eloquent. I must say I am impressed today. Others like Hon. Biti, Hon. Madzimure and I am going to say Hon. Gonese even though you did not speak, I recognise you and then Hon. Mushoriwa and Hon. Chinotimba. Let us drop this clause from the Finance Bill. I thank you.
Clause 22 put anddeleted.
Clause 23 put and agreed to.
On Clause 24:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Clause 24 seeks to charge 40% on the sale of a marketable security that is sold within 270 days and for the avoidance of doubt, 270 days is nine months. My objection to this is in twofold. The first issue is that 40% is a figure which is too high. I think we need to ensure that there is no reason for us to charge punitive taxes at 40%, primarily because in an economy like Zimbabwe and holding onto a stock for more than nine months has got its own inherent risk. People, companies and individuals have to try by all means to do whatever it takes to make sure that they survive under an unpredictable economic environment.
So, it is wrong to punish somebody primarily because you have decided to dispose your stock in less than nine months. You can hold it for six months and you want to dispose it. In any event, there is nothing wrong for one to hold his shares or security for two weeks, one month just the idea of trying to survive, the idea to make profit and taking advantage of the macro-economic circumstances prevailing.
My view is that 40% is out of this world and it is too much. The net effect is that it will affect the marketing of these securities. So I urge the Hon. Minister to consider retaining the percentage as it was rather than to come up with a punitive taxation system as he wants to do under this clause. I thank you Chairman.
HON. BITI: I thank you Chairman for allowing me to debate. The rate of 40% is extremely high and we are dealing with securities or put differently, shares on the stock exchange. So we are dealing with assets that are naturally fungible, in other words, that are shares. It is ironic that we are on fungible tutorial assets. We are levying a higher rate of capital gains than for the movement of assets. We understand why the Minister did what he did on the 7th of May when the President made the announcement. The announcements were made to primarily deal with speculative behaviour in the market but we should be careful of making permanent short term solutions that were meant to address a short term problem, namely the problem of overheated market in respect of which speculation was rife.
We are now suffering the law of unintended consequences and the unintended consequences in this matter is that we have now effectively killed the Stock Exchange. We have not killed the stock market but the stock market was created for a reason. The stock market was created in respect of people that they would actually raise them. That is why companies do what are called IPOs. So we are now killing the Stock Exchange and if you have any doubt, look at the indexes. The Zimbabwe Stock Exchange is the fastest rescinding Stock Exchange in the last four months since May of 2022. It has lost over 60% of its value on the entire counter.
These people who had invested on the savings have lost money. I urge the Minister to put a provision of say six months but not to make it permanent. I also urge the Minister to reduce the punitive measures because 40% is too much. I also need to remind the Minister that the reason why these markets exist in the manner that they do is because they are speculating. You will buy an Econet share because you know that in three months, it will declare a dividend and you will go to GMB, PPC or Old Mutual. That speculative component is always there. Capitalism is the nature of business and he knows that. He is a capitalist because you used to own a bank. Let us not be victims of the law of unintended consequences. Section 24 is bad law and bad policy. It was created for a reason and that reason I suspect is gone. I suspect that the real reason why there was speculation was that the Government itself was generating too much money, particularly on the issue of capital and because that tap has been shut, we have actually seen the levels of speculation going down. This provision is unnecessary. The Minister must make it time bound. He must say by June of 2023 the rate of tax will be 40%, thereafter let normalcy prevail. Let the stock market do what it does best, which is to raise capital including speculative capital. It is an instrument of capital; it will always play a role of capital but it helps the Minister on price discovery. Without a functional market, how do we know the value of Econet and all these 62 or so listed stock counters?
I urge the Minister to think carefully because this is a move that is terrible. This is a move that will accelerate depreciation and recession of our economy. We cannot use a hammer to kill a mosquito. Unfortunately, that is what we are doing. I thank you very much.
HON. RAIDZA: I want to support the provision that is being proposed by the Minister. Like what other Hon. Members have said, I am reading this amendment in the context that the Minister is trying to deal with speculative behaviour that has caused our economy to be where it is today. I want to support that but with an amendment on the number of days that maybe 270 might be on the higher side but I propose six months. Many of our people want to make a quick buck and by doing that, they do not look at the implications of their behaviour on the economy. If we can allow six months rather than nine months, I think it will be a way of trying to strike a balance between genuine investors and those who are into speculative business. That is my submission Hon. Minister that 40% can remain but the timeframe can be reduced so that at least we end up having a bit of discipline in our stock exchange. When the stock exchange was established, the whole idea was to help our economy but crooks have been taking advantage of seeing opportunities of making quick bucks in that area. By bringing the 40% and reducing the number of days, in a way we will try to strike a balance and at the same time trying to achieve what we want to achieve by having this clause. I thank you.
*HON CHINOTIMBA: Firstly, I want to thank Hon. Biti. Ever since he was in MDC Alliance, he never acknowledged that there was a duly elected President but right now he was making reference to the President of Zimbabwe. He now knows that there is a President. I was really happy seeing him debating and making reference to the President. Keep it up.
I do not have much to say except for the fact that the 40% must remain and we reduce the number of months to six months. I want to thank all those who have debated.
HON. NDUNA: I ask that the amount of days go lower than the 270 that had been proposed by the Minister on two reasons. The first one is; according to a precedent that has been set, I know in the High Court and Supreme Court, there has been a challenge that was given by a respondent after an applicant sought to get money for maintenance when the child was now over 18 years. The man had defaulted to pay maintenance charges but when the application was lodged to the High Court, the court did not see favour in granting the applicant’s prayer because the child who was deemed to be awarded maintenance was now over 18 years. What the law says is that when the reason for the law falls away, the law falls away. That is the first issue. Now that the child is 18 years the law falls away.
You have just created the stock exchange which is US dollar based in Victoria Falls to treat the issue of speculation on the stock exchange. That one is very solid. The reason you created or you seek to create this penalty per se, is to treat the issue of speculation which was rife and has been treated by the stock exchange. If somebody wants to invest in a solid stock exchange, globally they can go to Victoria Falls on that US dollar based stock exchange. So you have treated it. The speculation has fallen away because of the treatment. The law cannot be applied in the mould and form that you propose. You obviously have your reasons but the reason for treating it in the manner that I have spoken about falls away. When the reason for the law falls away, the law falls away because you have created the Victoria Falls stock exchange.
The second reason or otherwise that I am not sure of gives the issue the impetuous where I am giving you benefit of doubt and I say reduce the number of months maybe to 6 months as proposed by Hon. Chinotimba, let us say 6 months as opposed to 270 days. So, those will be my submissions and they are well founded in the law. I thank you.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: The reason that this clause is necessary is purely because we have uncontrolled inflation and currency rates. In order to stop this speculation, we ought to have this better understanding. However, you are killing a major investment and fundraising sector of the economy by stagnating it and as a result of that, it is becoming increasingly more difficult for all the counters to start raising money which they cannot do.
It also creates another problem for pensioners and they have to find a safe keeping for their money. Now, what I would like to propose to the Minister without going on too long is very simple. It is that both the 40% and the 270 days be reduced on a sliding scale. So, for the first three months, if he wants 40%, let him do it but the next three months, it must be 20% and the last three months, 10% capital gains tax. The reason I am saying that is that we are already three months or four months down the line from what we propose in the clauses. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions and all of them without exception have asked for some moderation on this Clause in terms of the penalties. However, before I then go on to propose some moderation, let me give the reasons why we introduced this kind of policy. It was to deal with speculation. In our analysis and understanding, we found that the traders in the parallel market, first of all, those in the auction and those in the parallel market in general and the stock market were working together to collude and drive down the value of our currency. So, we had a typical speculative bubble at prey and also in a sense, an asset price bubble due to high inflation but the issue was the behaviour in the stock market. That arbitrary behaviour was driving down the value of our currency and we had to act – that is what we did when the President made the announcement.
However, again in the spirit of compromise because everyone who has spoken has asked for some moderation, I propose that we reduce the holding period from the 9 month to 6 months or 180 days. I thank you.
(v)HON. MAKHARM: I appreciate the concession by the Minister but I believe that when he reduces to 180 days, he should also consider that of the 90 days, the 40% comes down to 20%.
My second question is that if the Minister knows who the people are who are speculating in connivance with the authority and the pushing of the arbitrage behaviour, why does he not stop them trading or ban the whole thing that upsets everybody.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Markham for that innovative proposal around creating a sliding scale but my view is that it will just complicate our collection system. We are already having difficulty with stock brokers implementing any sum of withholding tax; they claim all manner of difficulties and things are still simple.
My feeling is that if we introduce now a sliding scale, it will just get more complicated even though it sounds quite noble. However, on dealing with those who are speculating, if we know them, we are actually dealing with them. There is a specific case of a player who was buying shares and speculating in a very big way, very obvious way and we dealt with them directly but we do not know then who is next and usually you know once they have done it, once the deed has been done on the currency. So, we want to make sure the damage is not done at all, that is why we want to make sure that it is punitive enough. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 24, put and agreed to.
Clause 24, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 25:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I think in the spirit of the concession by the Hon. Minister under Clause 24, we seek that the Minister could extend that concession to six months under Clause 25.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Clause 24, 25, 26, 27 all pertain to market securities and they are a package around this restriction on trading and I agree with the Hon. Member that the 6 months applies right through. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 25, put and agreed to.
Clause 25, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 26 to 29 put and agreed to.
On Clause 30:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Clause 30, we raised this issue
extensively during the Second Reading and I just want to remind the Hon. House on two issues. The Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development and even the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Home Affairs have had this issue. I also want to believe that even the Portfolio Committee on Industry and Commerce was also supposed to do the tour of borders.
The question of border ports authority, we do not know whether it has been accepted and that Cabinet has made that decision and that is where the country is actually heading to. The challenge that we then face is to have the Hon. Minister coming before this august House under the cover of the Finance Bill and want ZIMRA to be the temporary border ports authority. There are several problems with such a scenario. The first one is that in all countries where there is a border ports authority, it has never been under the revenue authority and ordinarily, Zimbabwe cannot be an exception.
More importantly Chairman, if you go to the border today, you have got your ZIMRA, immigration, defence where you see our soldiers, environment and a lot of others. Any attempt to go to a border ports authority needs to be something that has been really debated, subject to scrutiny. Our position and our cry is that whilst I personally do not have a problem, I do not have a problem in having a border ports authority. I actually believe that this should come under a Bill before Parliament so that people of Zimbabwe have the chance to comment and debate, and this House should also do the same.
Right now and I wish Hon. Mayihlome was here, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Home Affairs. I think he will actually have huge challenges in having ZIMRA taking the lead. Given the fact that we are already in September, I think the best thing is for the Minister to delete this entire Clause 30 and allow a proper process to happen. I think we owe it to the people of Zimbabwe in the various committees that we sit, to make sure that we go out there, consult the people and have a properly drafted Bill before this House. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister should have been aware for a very long time that there is need to have a coordinated approach at the borders. For us to create a temporary structure that is not supported by a serious analysis of the various arms that are going to feed into this authority is going to cause us lot of problems. Whenever you want to put up a structure, you must first think of the key result area, what is it that you want to achieve and achieving it for who? If we look at what the Minister intends to achieve, it appears it only has to do with revenue collection but collecting revenue without the full coordination of the various arms and then knowing exactly what their roles are going to be will create a serious problem.
This, we are speaking from experience after having visited borders not less than three times and understanding what we simply have to do, which is something that we should have started doing a long time ago. We are trying to create a very good infrastructure. If you go to Beitbridge today, you will see that we are coming up with a perfect structure but this is a physical structure that must be supported, a human resources structure, organisational structure that will effectively and efficiently work. Under the circumstances, we are just rushing to create something that is going to give us a lot of problems.
Whenever you create an authority that is not supported with something that is really documented or apparent that one can actually see when you look at a structure, the moment you are told of a structure you must be able to go through the structure and say this is what I am seeing. We are not going to have this by simply saying we are now having a temporary ports authority. We already have problems with ZIMRA itself. The relationship between the army, police, port health and all these other departments are not working in a coordinated manner with ZIMRA at the moment.
I was of the opinion that if the Minister could leave the situation as it is and concentrate on persuading his colleagues in Cabinet to come up with what they perceive as the border ports authority and bring a Bill to this House to introduce border ports authority, otherwise rushing this thing will create more problems for us. Whenever you start establishing something that is not well planned and then try to correct it, you are already influenced by the mistakes that you have already made. It will be very difficult for you and as you become so defensive, you think what I had done in the first place is good and you cannot create an organisation under those circumstances.
Whenever you do not have an organisation existing, you have a perfect opportunity to put together something that is well-thought and has a well-established system that flows well. I am of the opinion that if the Minister could defer this and prepare a structure and a Border Ports Authority Bill that is brought before this House so that we achieve what he intends to achieve. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: I just want to add my voice in respect of this particular Clause 30. Firstly, I would really want the Hon. Minister to clarify for us the rationale and thinking behind the bringing in of this clause because as I see it, you are looking at something which he wants to introduce as an interim or temporary measures. As Hon. Members have spoken before have indicated, when it is brought through an Act of Parliament which is envisaged in terms of that particular clause, the relevant Portfolio Committee will be able to carry out public hearings. They will be able to get the sentiments and the views of all interested stakeholders but when it is introduced through an amendment to the Finance Act. All that will not take place and as a result, we then have a law which is rushed and which may not be in the best interest of the country. It is for this reason that I want to join the other Members who have spoken before me and request the Hon. Minister to drop this particular clause and if he and his colleagues in Cabinet have thought it through, they can then gazette a Bill which would come through the normal process. As for now, I think that this particular clause is not justified and I would request the Hon. Minister to drop it for the reasons that are from both a procedural and substantive point of view. It is not something which is beneficial to the long term interests of our country.
HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Gonese took some of my views. I am of the opinion that there is too much chaos at the border posts. I have this challenge – do we have to allow the situation as is or we need to come up with a measure that can help us, but I have only one worry Minister. How long is this authority going to survive? Is it going to be for a long time and how long is that long time? Is it going to be under your Ministry and what relationship will it have with the Ministry of Transport? I think we need some clarification on what informed you to come up with this idea? I think what you want to cure is there and indeed there is a challenge and there is that vacuum which needs to be dealt with. However, we still need more information why it has to go through ZIMRA and who else is involved in coming up with that. For us to leave the whole place empty and nobody doing anything about it, I think we are also perpetuating a challenge to our country but it is something that we need more information on as to why we have used this root to get where we want to go.
HON. BITI: I want to add my voice to support the strong reservations about this creature that Hon. Members are expressing. The first fundamental point I have, which I raised in my Second Reading contribution on the debate of the Finance Act is that the Act itself must not be abused to deal with non-revenue measures. It must not encroach on other things. The Finance Act is a Bill which is sui generis, to borrow the language that Hon. Nduna has just learned. It is a special Bill, a money Bill provided for in the Fifth Schedule. It has special privileges and its primary role is to deal with the raising of taxes. It is a revenue generating instrument, so it cannot encroach on other areas that require a relevant Minister to prepare principles of the Bill, which principles will then be debated by Cabinet. Once Cabinet buys that principle, the principle then goes to the Attorney-General who then drafts a Bill which goes to the Cabinet Committee on Legislation. The reason why the entirety of Cabinet is there is that those are the Executives and they must put their heads together. Directors, Principal Directors would have put their expertise. A ports authority is an extensive process and the first weakness of what the Minister is proposing is that he is seeing a ports authority as a way of facilitating revenue. So, he is therefore appropriating the ports authority to the Ministry of Finance. With great respect Mr. Chairman, a ports authority is about the country’s security, the integrity of the country’s borders. So, the primary responsibility of a ports authority has nothing to do with money or revenue that he wants. It is about the country’s security. Where is the Commander of the Defence Forces here? It is his baby in terms of the Constitution because it is protecting the territorial integrity of Zimbabwe vis-a-vis the external. That is its first function and ZIMRA has no capacity, they do not know what security is all about. Security is not stationed in people wearing a uniform like those at the airport. That is not security but there are a lot of things that will be happening there which you and I do not know. So he is usurping the function of the Minister of Defence and Commander of the Defence Forces and he cannot do that, waita mutete, iri igomo hombe iri and you cannot touch that.
Secondly, it is infrastructure and the Minister responsible for that must deal with it and that is the Minister of Transport who is responsible for all the infrastructure in this country. So, you cannot usurp the function and authority of the Minister of Transport. That is why I said there has to be principles which all the concerned Ministers should come and put their heads together such as the Minister of Defence, Minister of State Security, Minister of Transport and the Minister of Home Affairs because there is immigration. One of his biggest weaknesses is that the proposal he is putting here is touching on areas already covered by other laws. Let me read the wide mandate and ZIMRA cannot do it. He is saying “the function of the border ports authority shall be;
- to plan, provide, maintain and improve infrastructure at ports of entry”. That is not the core business of ZIMRA. The only Ministry with that mandate is the Ministry of Transport. So what the Minister is doing is very dangerous because he was given power in terms of Part 5 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe of overseeing revenue matters in terms of Section 7 of the Public Finance Management Act. He is Treasury and responsible for the macro-economic stability of the country. Infrastructure does not fall under his mandate, so he is usurping the powers of the Minister responsible for infrastructure.
He is saying
- “to arrange for the provision of services such as water, light, power and sewerage and telecommunications within ports of entry”. That is not his function but that is Local Government. So, he is now stealing the mandate and responsibilities of other Ministers and he cannot do that Mr. Chair. Number three, to control land use within ports of entry and decide optimal usage of that land, that is Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement and these things are covered by Acts of Parliament. Here I am demonstrating his invasion on the portfolios of other Hon. Ministers, he cannot do that.
Number four, to coordinate general activities of the ports of entry in respect to the entry and exit of the people and cargo – that is now security, immigration and home affairs, he cannot do that. ZIMRA itself does not have the capacity to do these things. Mr. Chairman, you are no longer looking at me, I know that my face is ugly.
An Hon. Member having not bowed to the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): Order, order, Hon. Member, you have to bow to the Chair when you pass. You may proceed Hon. Biti.
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, airports are ports of entry but airports are already covered by a separate Act of Parliament, it is called the Aviation Act of Zimbabwe which sets up the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe (CAAZ) and the Airport Company of Zimbabwe. The CAAZ, in terms of that law, is the power that controls that airport and the Immigration Department reports to them; and Customs also reports to the CAAZ. What he is trying to do here is not reconciled now to these other Acts of Parliament; in particular, I have given example of the CAAZ.
So, I want to say that the Hon. Minister is treading on dangerous shoes, in particular, the security shoes. Borders are about security; borders are about the territorial integrity of the country. I think this provision must be struck off. However, I hope then Cabinet, can then form a sub-committee where the relevant ministers can agree on principles, and take some of the ideas that are here. Then draft principles that will go to Cabinet, and if Cabinet approves, it goes to the Attorney-General, Advocate Prince Machaya and Draftsman Dias to draft the Bill. I thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Chairman. My only contribution is very simple and it is that I am averse to ZIMRA taking over even on a temporary basis because in the Budget and Finance Committee, we heard submissions to both management and in particular the workers stating that they are under capacitated, under rewarded. One of our recommendations was 3% regulations should go to them. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chairman for the opportunity to respond to the contributions by various Hon. Members. I have noted Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Madzimure, Hon. Gonese, Hon. Togarepi, Hon. Biti and Hon. Markham who have contributed to debate on this Clause 30.
Let me start with the rationale just to partly answer to the question by Hon. Togarepi. The rationale is simple which is, we have chaos at the borders. You go to Forbes Border Post, Beitbridge Border Post, there is chaos. We need leadership, order and an institution that will coordinate, control movement and activity at those borders. We currently do not have that. We have agencies that are there together with ZIMRA, Defence, Home Affairs, even Agriculture et cetera. There are a lot of agencies that are there but there is not proper coordination or structure to guide them so as to make a very effective border post where there is order, that is the first thing.
The second thing is that we cannot leave things as they are. Something has to be done. Number three, we are already working together as Cabinet and the President has created an Inter-Ministerial Committee chaired by the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is Vice Chairperson. This Inter-Ministerial Committee includes the affected agencies, so there is Home Affairs, for example, Defence and others who are going through the role of coming up with the principles that will be taken to Cabinet for approval. Then it goes to the Cabinet Committee on Legal Issues and then the Attorney-General and other Draftsmen. It does not have to be the other who was mention as the drafter but there will be some drafter. Then it eventually goes to Cabinet as a draft Bill then eventually, it makes its way to Parliament as a Bill to support the creation of a Border Authority. So that is coming, that is on the way but it takes time.
So in the interim, what do we do? Are Hon. Members suggesting that we leave things as they are? Is that the proposal and leave the chaos as is? I also want to know if they want to leave things as they are? I thought this was an interim solution. I have noted the debates around the list of issues, functions of the Border Authority that are in Clause 30, that would have been highlighted by Hon. Member to say ZIMRA cannot do this, ZIMRA cannot do that.
ZIMRA will be working with those other agencies already. At the moment, there is just no coordination in a manner that is enshrined in some law of sorts and that is all we are trying to solve. We need those agencies to coordinate, they provide security. The Ministry of Defence and War Veterans will provide the security that it provides, Home Affairs will do what it does and other agencies will do what they do but now it will clear, they are also contributing and there is a leader which is ZIMRA in this case. ZIMRA cannot provide those services, they will be provided by others. Even in a border authority, a border authority is not going to create its own new police force, immigration system and soldiers to patrol the borders. It will use the same soldiers in the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans. So the same resources will be drawn upon even by a new legally constituted border authority.
So I also have a question. Are Hon. Members happy that we leave things as chaotic as they are at the border and they are comfortable with that situation and they will sleep well in that situation? I thank you Mr. Chairman. I would like to know.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chairman. The Hon. Minister said something fundamental. He told us that there is a taskforce already and the taskforce, Mr. Chairman you heard, is actually led by the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. It is not led by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. His Ministry is actually the deputy.
Hon. Chairman, the reason why we are saying this, and Hon. Members of this House understand it. Hon. Minister, we visited the border, we know the chaos that is there. Nobody is happy with the chaos and the lack of coordination that is there. What we disagree on and disagree with you is for you to smuggle this one under this Finance Bill. You cannot do it.
The other alternative which I do not like, I am aware that in the question of the Presidential Temporary Powers, he has got a lot of challenges. I think that if the President has agreed as the Hon. Minister alluded to, let the President come up with a different platform and a Statutory Instrument to do that which has nothing to do with the Finance Bill.
Hon. Togarepi had indicated and which was a valid question. You cannot come up with something and say it is temporary. Temporary for how long, and from the process that he alluded to, I think, all of us know that for the Bill to go, all the processes and principles, until it goes to the Attorney General and all the other stuff until it comes here, it will take a long time. So the temporary that he is referring to is semi-permanent in a way. So we cannot allow it Chairman. Yes, we have to solve a chaotic situation but let us not create chaos to solve a chaotic situation. The best thing – the President is the head of the Cabinet, let him come up with another mechanism, even if it means that he short circuits the process of having these ministries meet overnight, burn the midnight candle and the Attorney General as well so that we fix the problem, rather than for us to have it under this Bill. It cannot do this country justice. I thank you Chairman.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. Recordings of Parliament remain alive as long as there is a Parliament in Zimbabwe. The matter that we have been dealing with, on the 17th June 2020, Hon. Mthuli Ncube answering to a question by Albert Nguluvhe and I refer to the Hansard of the same says, ‘As a Ministry, we have noted the concerns that the local Member of the National Assembly for Beitbridge East, Albert Nguluvhe and I will engage other line Ministers in Cabinet so that we operationalise the National Ports Authority (NPA)’. Why did he use the National Ports Authority? It is because in 2014, Cabinet approved the establishment of National Ports Authority (NPA) to coordinate operations and attending to the teething challenges of the ports of entry. So we are not here to create a new item. Whatever Hon. Biti was talking about, the principles, the drafting and everything has already been done and it started 2014. The issue is that ZIMRA collects an estimated USD170 million at the border facility weekly. So the Minister of Finance is comfortable using ZIMRA as a collecting mechanism and collecting vehicle but ignoring all the other issues incidental to the ports. This is why the Cabinet in 2014 managed to establish a National Ports Authority. I beg Hon. Minister to simply go back to Cabinet, withdraw and make alive the principles which are agreed to already by Cabinet and I refer you to the Hansard of 17th June, 2020 where he was answering questions to Hon. Albert Nguluvhe. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I want to respond to some of the issues raised by Hon. Minister. The first one is - what would Hon. Members want? In responding to that, one of our concerns emanates from the fact that this is open-ended. It simply says until such time. It can take forever. As Hon. Chikwinya has pointed out, this has been something which was debated even two years ago in 2020. Now we have got the problem that this amendment, if it is passed by this august House, it is an Act of Parliament and it becomes valid but at the end of the day, it is unlike the Presidential Powers Temporary Measures. As much as I do not agree with the principle of having them, at least they are for a temporary period. If a period of 180 days lapses then they fall away and an Act of Parliament has to be brought through the normal way but with this proposed amendment, if we pass it, it means that it can be there ad infinitum. There is no limit as to how long it is going to remain on the Statute books because the provisions, the way it is cultured does not even give such a timeframe. This is the reason why I want to agree with Hon. Biti that if you are bringing it in this particular manner, it is creating problems. At the end of the day, our response to the Minister is very clear and straight forward. They should then as Cabinet expedite the process and since it is something which has already been discussed, they already have the principles. All that they need to do is to ensure that once the Cabinet Committee on Legislation is able to meet, they can then gazette the Bill. Once the Bill has been gazetted, this august institution will then be able to do its normal processes whereby the views of the public are taken into account in terms of the provisions of Section 141 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. When that happens, we then pass a law which would have got inputs from the people of Zimbabwe and which will then last the fullness of time. That is all we are asking the Hon. Minister to do.
We are just putting the ball back to him and his colleagues to just work overnight to ensure that the Bill is brought in a proper manner and this august House will be able to pass a good law as is provided for in terms of Section 117 and 119 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. I have a different proposal on this clause. We understand from the submissions by the Minister and the other Hon. Members that possibly the procedure that we are trying to take might not be right but I have a proposal that is it not wise that we put a sunset clause because the Minister is saying he wants to deal with the chaos. At the same time we are saying this discussion of establishing the same authority started some time long back but it looks like it is not getting traction. My proposal is that for the sake of trying to strike a balance, can we not put a sunset clause to say possibly, a year, two years or so, so that we have this issue being currently obtaining at the borders dealt with whilst we are putting our house in order as a country. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I spoke here on this pedestal and platform on the Second Reading where I said - besides that there was traction in terms of establishment of road ports authority, there is a perceived or there is going to be a Bill coming in to Parliament. Indeed, if we put in our Bill tracking, we might see that it is still to be contemplated or is being contemplated. Be that as it may, I came here and looked at who was the cash-cow of the Beitbridge Border Post in particular or indeed all other border posts and we observed that it was VID for the good reason that there is vehicular transport and there is weigh bridges. Weigh bridges cost USD1700, about USD2 million to establish. Already you can see who is the master of the ports authority. If you go in there and you have an overweight at a rate of USD50 per tonne overweight, there is obviously knowledge to who it is that is the boss at the ports authority.
There is the Limpopo River Bridge and there is money coming from that bridge. There is the Victoria Falls bridge, there is money coming from there and who presides over it? It is the VID and VID is one of the 13 parastatals under the Ministry of Transport. It is my thinking that let us not change the winning team. I am saying the separation of vehicular and human traffic at the border post has, it will and it can increase efficiency. You have seen what has happened at the Beitbridge Border Post and it was just yesterday, His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa, the President, made it very clear in no uncertain terms; he was quite instructive to Hon. Minister Mhona to say that you have established this institution, it is my thinking that you should now concentrate on the Beitbridge-Bulawayo-Victoria Falls Highway. That was very instructive.
In my view, this is sometimes how you get the law. Law comes out of such instructions. It is my thinking that let us not go back to that archaic, moribund, rudimental and antiquated way of dealing with modern day issues. You remember on the tollgates, in the medieval error, we used to have ZIMRA officials standing in the rain with small booklets where they would collect revenue on behalf of ZINARA. Then afterwards, they would get 10% income out of it. All that is in the past. Thanks to yours truly, I was chairman of the Transport Committee when we computerised that issue because we were not supposed to be like BBC (born before computers). We were supposed to link all systems so that they police each other, then revenue gets to be generated en masse. We also avoid, avert and completely annihilate the scourge of revenue leakages and the financial hemorrhage, just through computerisation and making sure ZINARA is collecting its own revenue.
There is what is called Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe. We came here and we proposed a Bill that disintegrates the two between the regulator and the operator. You cannot have your cake and eat it. Where you are the referee, the player and otherwise; you are collecting the revenue and you are supposed to audit the revenue. It does not work like that. It is my fervent view, clarion call and hope that this issue of fast tracking this Bill should come to a screeching halt and the Hon. Minister should expunge this clause and go forward. Let us continue in the way we are dealing with the issue there.
The chaos has been removed because the vehicular and human traffic in the way that they have been separated at Beitbridge Border Post, which brings in three quarters of our GDP, is second to none. You saw the pictures yesterday. That is all that was needed because indeed if the vehicular and human traffic is amalgamated in the manner it was before, you are losing four cents per litre assuming you land after 24 hours; assuming it is a truck laden with fuel. When you land inland, you are losing four cents per litre. If it is sugar, you are losing two cents per tonne of sugar, something like that.
So the separation is well applied and if you had to say for instance, just for a little while, two or three months, who presides as a ports authority chairman or otherwise, let it be the Ministry of Transport so that the Minister of Finance can audit the Minister of Transport; let him remit. ZIMRA is the Minister of Finance. He cannot audit himself. Certainly, it is an incestuous relationship. It does not augur well. This is why I asked ZIMRA from the tollgates to take leave so that they can audit the Ministry of Transport through ZINARA.
There is a platform called Icecash that is already in play. There is an issue called ZIMTIMS (Zimbabwe Transport Integrated Management System). It makes sure all the transport systems are managed under that platform. So we are about to complete the circle if we link the border posts in that ZIMTIMS. So let us not create the confusion, let us complete the circle. If you go to the Ministry of Transport, ask him about ZIMTIMS and ask him about Icecash. Icecash has got all the insurance companies on it and it is moving very well. All you need is to just say for the usage of that platform, the percentage that is remitted to operators should even be 0.00001. It should not be humongous. That is the issue that I thought I should bring to the fore. Imagine this is coming from chairman of the district, Lameck Nyamarango in Ward 24, in Bosbury District and Sarah Chikukwa in Chegutu. These are old people but they think they know separation of powers. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE) Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Members have been debating this clause for a while now and it is quite clear that the mood is that we should really drop this clause out of the Bill. I therefore propose that we drop it. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I just want to say that I am concerned that the process of creating the border authority will take a while. Then in the meantime, the chaos will persist at our borders but I will drop it nonetheless because that is the mood in the House. I thank you.
Clause 30 put and deleted.
On Clause 31:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chairman. Clause 31 seeks that what is remitted to the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority (ZIMRA) in terms of Subsection 2, shall be paid half in foreign currency and half in local currency. As we stated during the Second Reading, these miners sell their products in foreign currency. They should just pay their dues also in foreign currency. There is no justification to then say Unki Mine pays half in USD and then pays half in ZWD. What is the rationale? I think by allowing these miners to pay half in United States dollars and half in local currency. They are given the opportunity of taking the money and burning it on the parallel market and then pay at the official rate. We cannot allow that Mr. Chairman.
Chairman, miners are selling their products only in foreign currency. They are not selling in Zimbabwean dollar. That is our bone of contention and if they are getting their money in foreign currency, why should we give them the leeway to then go on the black market and burn money and then pay in RTGS. Let them just pay in foreign currency. That is our plea Mr. Chairman. I thank you.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Chairman, I would like to just thank you very much for the recognition. I would like to back Hon. Mushoriwa. I do not see any reason why there should be a 50/50 split in currency when mining houses should be earning all their money in forex. They have the added advantage of cutting out any middle man because they must pay their forex. Thank you.
(v)HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Hon. Chair for giving me the opportunity to add my voice on this clause. I think that it is fair and prudent that anyone who sells in forex should pay using foreign currency. If one sells in RTGS or in Zimbabwean dollar, he must pay in Zimbabwean dollar. It is prudent, it is fair. So I submit that notion Hon. Chair.
HON. MADZIMURE: Minister, by allowing these miners to pay half in RTGS and half in United States dollars, we are simply promoting corruption because it is natural that you would want to take advantage of the prevailing situation knowing that we have got the bank rate which is probably around 480 these days and 850 on the parallel market. Any reasonable person or any person who thinks well will obviously just take the other half, go and convert it into RTGS and gain another half. It is natural.
So this is precisely what the Minister is encouraging these miners to do and by so doing, it is going to affect the poor because inflation is going to be pushed up. All those people who have been going to the parallel market are these big people who have got a lot of money who can even go and buy at any rate, but the consequence is that inflation will go up. After all Hon. Mushoriwa has stated it quite clearly that all what they trade in is in United States, all what they sell is in United States dollar so why would we want to give them an option to take advantage of the situation.
To be honest Mr. Chairman, if we look how desperate we are as a country to collect revenue, it should have been effected even well before this date because we are losing a lot of money from royalties. The minerals are all that we have and the most unfortunate thing is that minerals do not last forever. So we must take advantage of the situation but for us to allow them to pay in two currencies, it does not make sense.
HON. BITI: Thank you Hon. Chairman. I really do not understand the Minister’s motive behind this provision. I come from the position that the Government requires foreign currency because of our huge import requirements. We need about USD2 billion probably just on fuel. We need close to USD1 billion on drugs and other ancillaries. We need a huge amount of money to import power from entities such as ESKOM in South Africa and HBC in Mozambique.
The main export earning right now is actually commodities and minerals and minerals have now surpassed agricultural commodities yet we are now saying royalties should be paid half in United States dollars and half in RTGS. If you look at clause 312(a), the Minister does not give discretion. The Minister says royalties shall be paid 50% Zimbabwean dollar, 50% United States dollars. So he makes a mandatory, a peremptory provision, pay 50/50 but you need foreign currency and we are talking of minerals. We are talking of minerals that are ephemeral, that are not permanent that belong to the people of Zimbabwe.
Mining houses have done little over the last hundred years that they have been mining in Zimbabwe. If you go to Renco Mine in Chiredzi, in Masvingo, it is only 90km from the main Chiredzi Road but it is gravel. That mine has been around for 60 years and they have failed to put a tarred road from Renco Mine to Masvingo North Constituency. Go to Kadoma, there is a gold mine there called Rio Tinto. They have been mining for over 8 years. Kadoma has nothing to show for that mine. Go to Bikita Minerals, Masvingo has nothing to show of the minerals that have been extracted from Bikita for the last 40 years. So why are we giving them this concession?
The Minister’s obsession has been with inflation and the collapse of the exchange rates. All the measures that we have been debating, the measures around 7 May have been measures around tightening the screws on broad money in the market but here because of reasons we do not know you are now opening the screw because you are now basically saying to mining houses you can go and sell your currency on the black market and then use it to pay your royalties. So on the contrary, the measures will not strengthen the local currency as the Minister said in his second reading speech. It will actually undermine the Zimbabwean dollar because it will increase the supply of the Zimbabwean dollar and therefore undermine the exchange rate and he knows that those mining houses are not fools. They will not go to banks and exchange their foreign currency at an artificial bank rate. They are rational human beings and so they will unleash their money on the parallel market, thereby undermining the currency and undermining the exchange rate. We do not want to make laws for certain individuals.
We do not want to make laws for cartels and when I see this law, I think of Kuda Tagwirei. His Landela Mining entities, he now owns eleven gold mines – five that came from ZMDC and three that came from Mzi Khumalo Metallon. Are we going to continuously make laws for Kuda Tagwirei? To me, this is a Kuda Tagwirei clause because he has got so much cash and he does not know how to launder that cash. So he says to his friend George Kuvamatanga, please allow me to pay royalties in local currency- why? There is no rationale at all.
They are earning USD and even pay USD. The Minister needs USD. If he does not know that he needs USD, he must go and look at the state of Parirenyatwa Hospital right now. There is no dialysis machine working in the country, there is no cancer machine working in the country; they all require foreign currency. This is strange, we do not want to be captured and we do not want people that are captured. I thank you very much.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you for awarding me an opportunity to debate on this important clause. I would like to appreciate the contributions made by Hon. Biti. However, what is mining, how many categories of miners do we have especially in Zimbabwe? We have got big established mines, the Unki, Zimplats and others but we have got our artisanal miners, amakorokozas who are the majority of the miners in Zimbabwe and they have employed enough young people in this country.
So what do we do to promote them to grow into big mines? If they sell their gold they are getting half in local currency and half in USD. Why do you not allow the small scale miners to pay half in local currency and half in USD and the big mines can pay wholly 100% in foreign currency? This is to promote the vision of our President, of a USD12 billion. I thank you.
HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Chair. I was coming in to support what was said by Hon. Kashambe because the Minister must take the difference between the big mines and small scale mines. There are three categories. There are big mines, medium mines and small scale mines. I support what Hon. Kashambe said that small scale mines which are called korokozas can be allowed to pay half USD and ZWL half but these big mines are supposed to pay USD. I rest my case. Thank you.
(v) HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Hon. Chair for giving me another chance to debate on this issue. The situation right now with the small scale miners and large scale miners is that they are paid in USD everywhere you go and that is the prevailing situation on the ground. We propose that anyone who is getting any income after trading in USD must pay in USD. Whoever is paid in ZWL must also pay in ZWL. I think that is proper and prudent. We need to understand that most of our people who are receiving this USD are going to the parallel market and selling the USD at a higher price whereas the Minister is struggling to reduce our local currency so that it goes down.
Every time he is fighting very hard but these people are getting the money in USD and they go and sell them. It is now the men in the streets that are telling the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe that the currency must go up. In some of the hotels that we are living in, I ordered food and I said - can you deliver it to my room and I was told it was USD5 a tray. I said it is fine you can bring your pos machine and then I will swipe. When they came, they said no, it is equivalent to ZWL1 200 per USD which means for USD5, I paid ZWL6 000. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: There is Section 368 in the current Mines and Minerals Act and I will restrict my debate to the law. Section 368 outlaws prospecting without a licence. It is so powerful that it can repeal the Agrarian Reform Act of 2000 in that small scale farmers and large scale farmers, A1 and A2 can be thrown off their land, the formerly marginalised black majority can be thrown off because of that section. It criminalises them and you can go to jail without an option of a fine. Section 3 of the Gold Act criminalises possession of gold without a licence. I am trying to center on this antiquated piece of legislation we call the Mines and Minerals Act. Section 343 of the same Act, you will find that who is supposed to have power is the District Mining Commissioner but we currently have a Provincial Mining Commissioner who is not appointed according to the law, operating with impunity and removing people from their mines without a court order.
The reason I bring up all these points is because the current Mines and Minerals Act does not promote the blacks. It does not have the small scale miners; it impedes upon their progress of empowerment and having money. I therefore propose as follows; that the small scale miners are the cash cow in the gold sector for the Minister currently, giving more than 30 tonnes of gold per annum. This year it is envisaged they might even go to a 100 tonne mark. This is small scale miners who are artisanal miners most of the time. I ask that because they are being paid half-half, the Minister can therefore get those royalties and taxes in RTGS.
To be a small scale miner, there is a threshold in terms of production. Once they break that ceiling, treat them like large scale miners irrespective of that, we have not repealed the archaic, moribund and rudimentary piece of legislation we call the Mines and Minerals Act of 1951. In my view, this is the opportunity for small scale miners to be in partnership with large scale miners so that the small scale miners can be empowered, use that platform and pedestal to empower the formerly marginalised black majority and buy pieces of equipment. If there is circumvention of the US dollar taxes by the large scale miners, it should be because they have partnered small scale miners. The import of that is that the small scale miners will then grow arising from the partnership with large scale miners. There is a deliberate empowerment tool of the small scale miners.
I can tell you this now that the foreign currency you are trying not to get from the large scale miners is not going down in terms of benefit to the localities. I said this in the Second Reading that Section 13 (4) states that, the minerals should benefit the localities from where they are extracted. We have Zimplats, the second largest producer of platinum in Africa with no benefit to Chegutu. We have Pickstone Peerless Mine, the largest gold reserve in the whole of Africa and they are conducting open cast mining with no benefit to Chegutu. To get to that mine, 25km from Chegutu, you have to go through a dirty road, second to none. All they ever did was to build a small little primary school in order to hoodwink the Member of Parliament. So, these people should not be treated with kid gloves. They should be forced to benefit the locality. If they do not adhere to the ethos and values of the Constitution, they should be brought to order. I say this because I reside where there is ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth being extracted. Let this be a benefit to the small scale miners.
By the way, I am christened the biggest artisanal miner, mukorokoza mukuru in the whole country because I stand for these people including accommodation. I am standing for them and I am getting incarcerated by whomever.
It is the issue of Isaiah 6 verse 1, ‘the year King Hosea died, I saw the Lord’. Let the artisanal miners be empowered because of your Clause 31 today, here, and now. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions because they are all in agreement with some variation here and there – Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Chidziva, Hon. Madzimure, Hon. Kashambe, Hon. Nduna and Hon. Nyathi. Why did we come up with this policy which we are now seeking to make sure that it is included in the Finance Act? There are three reasons; the first one is that the large scale miners are giving up 40% of their export revenues through the retention scheme which has been supporting the auction. Secondly, we have said to them that they have to pay for their electricity and they are big electricity users in foreign currency because some of the electricity has to be imported. ZESA needs the foreign currency to import that power. These big miners are having to pay for their electricity in foreign currency. Thirdly, as Government, there has been a serious argument from various policy analysts and so forth that Government must also show that it supports its own domestic currency, the Zimbabwe dollar. It should therefore accept more of its taxes, levies and royalties in the domestic currency.
We analysed that proposal from various analysts including industrialists and miners and we felt that it is a good idea, it seems to make sense. Therefore, we were happy to accept 50% of the royalties in Zimbabwe dollars. If we did not do that, miners would struggle to have enough foreign currency to import necessary raw materials, equipment, retool and so forth. They have made representation to us which we felt was sound, hence this proposal of 50-50 payment in Zimbabwe dollars and US dollars for the royalties.
I now turn to the issue of the small scale miners. In our research, we also found out that some of the large scale miners make use of the small scale miners to avoid certain levies and payments, including royalties which are higher for them compared to the small scale miners.
I am afraid that the proposal of saying let us allow small scale miners to pay their royalties in ZWL only, the large scale miners will take advantage of that; pay them a small fee to accept their produce and their own, then claim that this is produce from small scale miners. We then receive all our royalties in ZWL but we do not want to do that, we want 50/50.
So, this will not help the situation, it will make it worse but also the small scale miners are already having to pay a lower level of royalties in any case. We are also setting up that USD10 million revolving fund from the SDS to support especially the gold miners. I am happy to say the fund will be launched in a couple of weeks; we are ready now with the participating banks.
So colleagues, there is some rationale behind this proposal of 50/50 payment in either currency because this is supporting the very miners who have invested large sums of money into this country. As Government, we are fairly comfortable, it is one of the cocktail of measures that we put in place and only one of the cocktail of measures and together these measures, we feel as Government that they are working. I really urge members to accept this clause, we can always evaluate in future, and there is some sound reasoning behind it. I thank you.
Clause 31, put and agreed to.
On Clause 32:
HON. MUSHORIWA: When we say we have substituted the word platinum, then we say ‘platinum,’ why not just mention the other minerals that are within the PGM group rather than to leave those commas there unless we are saying we are leaving it because we do not know other minerals that may also be there. What is the rationale of not just completing sub-clause a and b?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Chair, I agree with Hon. Mushoriwa. We will add the names rather than putting dots – that is in order.
Amendment to Clause 32, put and agreed to.
Clause 32, as Amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 33:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I want to ask the Minister to expunge this clause from this Bill. As we indicated to you Hon. Chair, the Hon. Minister cannot do what he proposes to do. He wants to increase the board of directors of ZIMRA to a big number of about 10.
The Committee on Budget and Finance has already tabled a report in this august House and there was a petition which came from the revenue authority union. One of the issues that we raised in that report which has been adopted by this august House was that the board of directors of ZIMRA contravened the public entities corporate governance act which does not allow senior Government officials and Permanent Secretaries to sit on a board of parastatals.
ZIMRA Board Chairman allows the Permanent Secretary of Ministry of Finance, George Guvamatanga, to serve on that board. There are a number of issues which are within the Revenue Act which require proper Bill to come before this august House. There are a number of issues that we feel that the Revenue Act now needs to be re-looked into. There are several things that need to be amended.
In my view, it is amiss for the Minister to do a piecemeal amendment of the Revenue Authority Act through the back door of this Finance Bill – it will be wrong. in any event, there is no urgency to try to fast track this through here because I believe that let us just do the right thing; let the Hon. Minister come up with the various amendments that are needed.
We have had discussion through your Committee Hon. Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Budget and Finance with senior officials from his ministry. They are aware, the issues that are there that we have raised under the Revenue Authority Act. So we ask you Hon. Minister that for the sake of good order, that this Clause 33 be expunged from the Bill. I thank you.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you Hon. Chair. My proposal is on the number that the Minister is proposing that there must not be more than 10. Just for clarity, I am proposing that maybe the number must be changed to nine so that in case of voting then you can use the odd numbers. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Chair, whenever you put in place a structure, you put it for a purpose and especially now that we are trying to make each and every Government institution accountable. The Permanent Secretary of Finance, one of his roles is to ensure that ZIMRA performs well. He cannot then be a board member and then ask ZIMRA to be accountable - that will not work. It is impossible. What we are simply trying to do is to help siphon money out of ZIMRA because he is the same person to whom this board will submit even their requests whenever they want to change even sitting allowances. How independent will he be in dealing with the ZIMRA matters? It does not work.
Any person who has done principles of god management will not accept such an arrangement in an organisation. This section should not be part of the Bill. You cannot have the Permanent Secretary of Agriculture sitting on the GMB Board. How does he carry out his oversight responsibilities? Probably the Minister had an oversight but the worst thing is, even if he is to go and consult the Public Service Commission Chairperson or the Commissioner, he will not recommend that or advise the Minister to go to that route because you defeat the whole principles of good governance. Boards cannot be run that way that you are the Permanent Secretary to whom the board is expected to report and you are a board member. It is unacceptable. I think this particular clause should just be removed.
HON. NDUNA: I just have a contribution in that we should use whatever debate we have to correct some anomalies. It has been said time without number here in Parliament that in the appointment of boards, it might be critical for those board members to come through Parliament in their appointment. This is because all the time a new Minister gets into a portfolio; you get new board members coming on board. Is it because the previous board members are - it is called three issues; either naive, arrogant or involved in some corruption tendencies or is it because there is a collusion, corruption and nepotism by the incoming Minister?
It is my thinking and I propose that in future, let board members be appointed through Parliament. It is going to save us a lot of technocrats’ flight because it cannot be right that a Minister gets into a Ministry and appoints board members and removes those old ones. So, I have no challenges with you appointing but as a take home in the future, it is my thinking that let us have them being appointed like Commissioners through Parliament.
HON. MPARIWA: I want to join my colleagues in persuading the Minister to withdraw this particular clause. It serves no purpose but actually spoils the whole meal. No teacher sets an examination, sits for it and then also marks the examination. That is total corruption. In terms of transparency and accountability, we need to be careful on what we approve as Parliament because tomorrow tichazochema.
I wanted to find out from the Minister the urgency of slotting in this clause into the whole Finance Bill. If there is no urgency, I would ask the Minister to withdraw it and actually do another proposal, a total Bill completely out of this particular Finance Bill so that it gives us leeway to move but this particular clause does not serve any purpose. It has actually spoiled everything.
To those colleagues who have been listening to the Public Accounts Committee, we have time and again bemoaned the lack of transparency and accountability when it comes to boards. This particular board where a Permanent Secretary sits in it has no relevance whatsoever. If it is happening then it is pathetic and we need to correct it by actually withdrawing this clause. This is the time to actually amend and make sure we put the right laws in place. Thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Chair, I am not sure if I am reading something different because if you look at that section, there is nowhere where it talks about the Permanent Secretary of Finance. Are we inventing a section or what? The issue of increasing numbers to 10, of course for corporate governance issues; it may give us problems if it is an even number. I think let us come up with an odd number. Again, still as we look for that odd number, the section says not more than ten, which means we can still have five or seven. I think that leeway also brings in expertise that we may need to run ZIMRA. In my view, we are just debating something that is very clear and simple. I think let us allow it to pass.
HON. BITI: Hon. Chair, in his Second Reading speech, the Minister justified the increase in board members from 8 – 10 on the basis that there is work at ZIMRA but board members are not executive members. Boards are traditionally run on committees and that is why the model used in the ZIMRA Act is a model that is coming from the Corporate Governance Act, which as my friend knows as a Professor of Finance, was modeled on King 3, so sound corporate governance is already incorporated in the current position. Why then does he want to increase the quantitative numbers of board members? If he had come before Parliament and explained what expertise he thinks is missing, Parliament could have listened. These board members that you want, what are they for? Is it human resources or data experts? He does not say that and in the absence of that, he just wants a blank cheque to appoint board members. How can we depart from principles of sound corporate governance? Izvi zvekuti munoda kuisa haranga dzenyu muma boards, we should say no to that. There is no sound basis. Chapter 9 of the Constitution is very clear Hon. Nduna. Chapter 9 speaks to the principles of sound corporate governance and this proposal is not consistent with the principles of sound corporate governance that are incorporated in Chapter 9 of the Constitution. As Hon. Nduna keeps stating, anything that is done inconsistent with the Constitution falls under the watchful eye of Section 2 of the Constitution. We object to the abuse of the Finance Act to make amendments to other independent stand-alone principal legislation. If he wants to deal with the Revenue Act, bring comprehensive amendments that will be subject to public consultation in terms of Section 141 of the Constitution.
There are also many more issues that are wrong or out-moded in the ZIMRA Act. This Act is old, it was done in 1989 and ZIMRA came into existence in 1990. That Act now needs to be modernised particularly on the technology component, and the fact that we have failed to properly transit to electronic digital submission of our tax affairs, that Act needs to be modernised. So, we urge the Minister to bring a comprehensive Bill amending ZIMRA including incorporating the suggestion by Hon. Nduna that it is high time that Parliament approves important board appointments. Only last week, ZIMRA appointed Regina Chinamasa as the new Chief Executive Officer. Surely, Parliament should have had a say and I am curious - is Regina Chinamasa related to my good brother Patrick Chinamasa? I hope not but those are the issues. I am talking about principles Hon. Togarepi, Parliament must approve. -[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection] – Please protect me Hon. Speaker. Munhu haangoukura mumwe achitaura. So in short Mr. Chairman, if the Minister wants his board members, tell us why you want them and in what areas of expertise. Also, bring a comprehensive amendment to the Revenue Act because there is a lacuna in that Revenue Act. There are many gaps in that Act that Parliament can assist you. Do not sneak in major material amendments.
Finally, I have a problem with the drafting and this is not the Hon. Minister Ncube’s problem but it is the problem of the draftsmen. Any Minister acts on the directive of the President. If you look at Section 110, Chapter 5 of the Constitution, Executive power resides in the President who then acts through a Cabinet. So, a provision that says ‘not more than 10 members, subject to subsection 3 by the Minister after consultation with the President and in accordance with such directions as the President may give’ is superfluous because you are already subjective to directives by the President. It is just bad drafting. So, I urge the drafters to drop that. It is not the Minister’s problem but just an elegantly drafted provision, and unnecessary provision because a Minister acts on the directive of the President, so why repeat it? It is a Finance Act that has been incorrectly drafted.
(v)HON. NYATHI: I wish to add my voice to the amendment of this clause. Firstly, I want to concur with Hon. Raidza that if the Minister wants to add board members, I ask that he deals with odd numbers 5,7,9,11 and so forth. Should we increase the number or not? Secondly, I also realised that it is important for us to comment on the issue why certain Ministry officials sit on the boards. From my experience, I think this is a clause that should come independently on its own for the reason that I also noted that in most of our parastatals, those who sit in that particular board is for institutional memory or to give some kind of guidance. It has been traditionally like that. So, if Hon. Members think that there must be an amendment, let us agree if there is a need for us right now to add more members on the Revenue Authority Board. I think that is the issue that is on the cards now that we need to discuss. So, I submit Hon. Chairperson.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Chairperson. I just want to say that it was anticipated that the ports authority might ask the Minister to have a broad based board so the increase of the numbers might have been anticipated. Now that he has expunged the issue of the Ports Authority, he might see reason to either retain the number and maintain what he has. So I thought I should come up here and make the Hon. Minister see what he contemplated. Now that he has expunged that Clause, maybe he may see reason not to increase the number. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Hon. Chairman, I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions, I really thank them. I have taken note of contributions from Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Raidza, Hon. Madzimure, Hon. Nduna, Hon. Togarepi, Hon. Mpariwa, Hon. Biti, Hon. Nyathi and Hon. Nduna who had a double take, which is good. I hope that I did not omit anybody so that the record shows that they debated and contributed to this clause.
I want to deal with a matter pertaining to the Permanent Secretary sitting on the Board of ZIMRA. The Revenue Authority Act (REA) in Section 5 provides for the Permanent Secretary to sit on the board. So he currently sits on the board as one of the eight board members on the ZIMRA Board and that is legally in order – I want to be clear. I now want to turn to the Corporate Governance Act. The Corporate Governance Act, Section 43 (1) deals with exemptions. It states that entities are allowed to seek exemption from the provisions of the Public Entities Act.
So what I did, even I was not fully comfortable with the Permanent Secretary sitting on the ZIMRA Board, even though the Act says so because I was cognisant of what is happening with the Corporate Governance Act. So I sought permission and sought an exemption in writing, and the exemption was granted in writing that indeed he can sit on the ZIMRA Board. So we are covered by law on one end and by exemption on another - so that is in order. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The law already provides for that, Section 5 of the Revenue Act already provides for that.
I want to then turn to the issue of why I am proposing that the board size be increased. Hon. Members, you know, ZIMRA is probably the largest institution, and I am using it loosely, in the country. It is collecting over a trillion ZWL which we are using to finance our expenditure as Government and public sector. It is a large institution and it is also a complex institution. It needs all the skills that are needed for it to perform its duties. I have done a lot of work on corporate governance in my previous profession; in fact, I am an authority on the impact of corporate governance on company or corporate performance.
I am happy to share the work actually. I did a lot of work in the United Kingdom, the United States of America and South Africa. What we found in that research is that board size matters, board composition matters. In fact, there is an optimal board size and on this work, I worked with Mervyn King who used to come and support my deliveries for the MBA classes on this subject. So what we found was that the aptitude of the optimal board size Hon. Chairman for a corporate to be effective is 12. The composition of the board also matters. We found out that boards that have more women or a sizeable number of women on the board, those companies perform better, so gender matters.
What also matters is age but with age, you have to be careful. It does not mean that you must have a lot of young people or a lot of old people. You need again a mix of the older gray hairs, if I can use that, but also some young people as well. So board composition matters but finally on board, just the mere size. Board size allows you to then take care of a fourth factor which is the skill mix because boards work effectively when you have got the various skills that are needed, that is, law, accounting, economics, engineering and so forth. Even in banking you need engineers to deal with loans on the infrastructure sector, you will be amazed. So you need a spread of skills. Board size allows you to have those skills on that board so that you create the right board committees; you have the right contributions in terms of debates when things come up at board level. This is necessary.
All I have asked for is an extra two board seats that is all but there is something that I am persuaded on that was raised by Hon. Raidza. Who spoke about a board size of nine and I am persuaded by that. Perhaps we need an odd number, so we can either go to nine or go to 11 and 11 is still below the optimal board size of 12. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – I have also understood the sentiments around the House. So I also agree that we amend this clause to say the board should increase from eight to nine. I thank you. Later then I can always bring the separate Revenue Authority Act Hon. Chairman, for full consideration by this House because the Act is old. It needs to be amended in various areas, we could then consider this again but for now, I request that the board size be moved to nine. The odd number, I think, is a very good idea so that we deal with potential stalemates. I thank you Hon. Chairman.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chairman, I think that the Hon. Minister is missing something. The ZIMRA Act like what Hon. Biti said, came into effect in 1989. This House then passed the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act and this Act that then passed in this august House reads in this format, I just want to quote to the Hon. Minister first it says, ‘The provisions are there that no Permanent Secretary of a line or other ministry shall be appointed or hold office as a member of such board…’, - [HON. BITI: Which section?] – It is under Section 11, Appointment of Boards of Public Entities subsection 5(2), not only that Hon. Chairman. This Act then says that, “any other Act which is contrary to the provision of this Act will be void to that extent of the inconsistencies with this Act. The Public Entities Corporate Governance is a much later Act which was passed by this august House well after we had passed the ZIMRA Act. If the Hon. Minister wants us to even consider – I want to put it on record – I would not want these piecemeal amendments but if he wants to do that, the Public Entities Corporate Governance should take precedence and the Public Entities Corporate Governance stipulates, he was talking of exemption, there are no exemptions. You just wonder where did the exemption on ZIMRA, that he mentioned, was submitted to and who authorised it. The truth of the matter Chair is, it is not allowed and we should not allow this august House to pass it. We passed the Corporate Governance Act and we cannot be seen as if we forgot what we did as a House. We knew what we wanted to fix. We wanted to fix a situation where a permanent secretary who is supposed to get the reports from the board finds himself also being a member of the board. The Hon. Minister should have come here to simply say, I now want to amend the ZIMRA Act so that it confines to the dictates of the Public Entities Corporate Governance. If he had said that, we could possibly be persuaded to accept it because it then removes the permanent secretary and then – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, it is there because he has already brought it. The problem with you Hon. Togarepi is, you just fold your hands, you do not read what is contained in the Finance Act. Chair, you should protect us from...
*HON. RAIDZA: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. I need guidance, maybe I am getting lost somewhere. On Clause 33, there is nowhere Guvamatanga is mentioned. There is nowhere it is mentioned about amending the ZIMRA Act, even amendment of the Corporate Governance Act. Maybe Hon. Mushoriwa should show us on his copy where Guvamatanga’s name is written so that we move together.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Chairman, let me read for Hon. Raidza. He is a professional and should do better. The amendment says, ‘with effect from 30 March 2022, the board of the Revenue Authority Act is amended’. This is what we are debating. So if the Hon. Member has not read, he should not try to disturb the smooth flow. The Hon. Minister is aware that the very amendment that he seeks to do under the Revenue Authority Act pertaining to the board of directors already contravenes the Public Corporate Governance Act. Naturally, if the Hon. Minister wants to amend this Act, he should also make sure that whatever he is doing should be streamlined to make sure that the ZIMRA Board is in tandem with the latest position taken by this august House.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Chair. The Minister is misleading the House. He is talking of exemption that is not provided for in the Public Entities Act. It is not there. According to his own admission, he said he wrote asking for an exemption and he was given authority to do so, which authority is wrong. Apart from that, he had not even explained why he would want to force the permanent secretary to sit on the ZIMRA Board. Why? What is that the permanent secretary is going to provide which is not there as far as the board members are concerned? When talking of even the skills that he is referring to amongst the board members, it is the Minister’s responsibility to identify those skills. If you are not going to look at the skills, instead you look at the individuals, kumutarisa achifamba soo kuti uyu anoita uyu. Then whenever you want to constitute committees of that particular board, you will still run short of individuals to meet your expectations. It is your responsibility even if you appoint five people, if you are careful Minister, five people you can get all you want. Mind you, these are not executive members. People who run ZIMRA on a day to day basis, it is their experience in their various responsibilities that they bring to ZIMRA to make the final decisions.
Mr. Chairman, whenever you are communicating with the Ministry, if you are a board, you go through the permanent secretary who then advises the Minister. In this case, how are you going to do it? Mr. Chairman, this might appear to be innocent, we are not accusing anyone of being corrupt but this is precisely how we have destroyed systems here in Zimbabwe. For the benefit of individuals, Mr. Chairman, those who have worked at reasonably high level will understand when I say systems are destroyed...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Member. I think we are on the repeal of paragraph C and it only deals with numbers, we need to concentrate on that.
HON. MADZIMURE: Chairman, I think we are all Members of Parliament and we must all be conversant with issues that we will be dealing with. The Minister has already responded to the issue that we are now arguing. He has already responded to that issue and you are trying to tell me the Minister was offside when he responded. He knows what he is talking about. This is precisely what I am following up on.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, as Chairman, I am interested on Section C. If you bring things outside that then there is a problem.
HON. MADZIMURE: Chairman, have you read the particular section of the ZIMRA Act which is referred to here? If you have not read it then you cannot tell me that I am offside when I am referring to that you have not read.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, I did not say that you are offside. I am saying concentrate on Section C.
HON. MUSHORIWA: That is exactly what I am concentrating on and that is why I have reminded you that the Minister has already brought the names.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: The names are not there Hon. Member. This is why I am saying you are off topic.
HON. MUSHORIWA: It is in the principal Act – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Because you do not understand issues. How can we make you understand? You are too grown up Hon. Togarepi that I cannot teach you anything.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I have been following the debate and I would like to address my sentiments to the Hon. Minister. When you were referring to an exemption, you were cognisant, in my view, of the provisions of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act, No. 4 of 2018. That is the one I am looking at now. Obviously, for there to be a request for an exemption, it means that you were looking at the provisions of this particular Act. I want to direct your attention to the specific section which actually provides that no Permanent Secretary and I want to reiterate what my colleagues who have spoken before me have said. The provisions are peremptory. No Permanent Secretary of a line or other Ministry shall be appointed to a wait office. So, if that Act which came after the enactment of the ZIMRA Act takes precedence and the Act in question is actually very clear that if there is any - Hon. Mushoriwa has already read the section. I will not bore the House by repeating.
The point is that the Act itself, when it was promulgated, it was anticipated and understood that there might be some other Acts which were passed by this august House previously, where there would be inconsistencies. That is the reason why in its wisdom, the Legislature, this august House then proceeded to make that provision that this Act will then take precedence. In the context of that, I believe that the Hon. Minister should do the honourable thing and consult his Ministry officials so that they look at that Bill and then bring in an amendment to the ZIMRA Act in terms of which the Permanent Secretary cannot continue, cannot sit on that board because it is contrary to the provisions of the law. No one has the authority to override an Act of Parliament. It is only this Parliament which can repeal the Corporate Governance Act. As long as it is still law, as long as its provisions are applicable, no one has got that power to grant any exemption. So that purported exemption because it has no validity at law, it is a purported exemption because it is invalid in so far as it cannot override an Act of Parliament - [HON. TOGAREPI: Inaudible interjection.] – I do not know whether Hon. Togarepi is comprehending what I am articulating. – [HON. TOGAREPI: What?] – You just need to apply your mind; you will then understand - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
What I am saying is, this Act passed an Act of Parliament in 2018. The ZIMRA Act was passed in 1989 and it was in anticipation of …
HON. DR. MURIRE: On a point of order. My point of order is that we cannot have a direct exchange of two Members. Members should speak to you. There was now a direct exchange between Hon. Gonese and the Chief Whip.
HON. GONESE: Hon. Chair, I am addressing myself to the Hon. Chair. So, what is critical is that as the Chair, you must also be appreciative of what point we are articulating. That is the reason why it is the Hon. Minister who will then respond. I think I just wanted to direct the Hon. Minister’s attention to the provisions of the law in that the provisions of the law take precedence over any other purported Acts which are invalid as long as they contravene provisions of an Act of Parliament. Until such time, this Act which we are referring to has been amended or repealed, its provisions will actually prevail over the previous one.
HON. MASENDA: On a point of order. May I urge Hon. Members that they should not belabour points that have already been exhausted by other Members in order for us to make progress. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you. I would like to thank Hon. Masenda for that point of order. I would like to thank Hon. Gonese, Hon. Madzimure and Hon. Mushoriwa for their contributions. This clause is very clear Hon. Chair. It is seeking for approval or making a proposal to increase the board size. That is all. In the proposal, I proposed to increase board size from 8 to 10 and I have modified to deal with the issue of the odd number, which I think is a good observation. I propose that the board be increased from 8 to 9. I thank you.
Amendments to Clause 33, put and agreed to.
Clause 33, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 34 and 35 put and agreed to.
On Clause 36:
HON. GONESE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to debate this particular clause. My proposal is very simple. There is reference to the age of 70 years. I am proposing that that should be removed, the reason being that once an Hon. Member has served and is entitled to a pension, I believe that the issue of 70 years should not arise. Once that principle is understood, as Hon. Members would be aware, we are dealing with a situation where a lot of Hon. Members are passing on and so on and if we look at the life expectancy in Zimbabwe at present. So, I believe that once a person is entitled to a pension, it should not be confined to those who have attained the age of 70 years. I believe that this is the position which will find favour from all Members across the political divide. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I have come to know that whatever you said somebody has said it before. When you make reference and say something that has already been said, you have to pay homage that goes to the person who would have said that. Hon. Chair, the issue of age 70 may be trying to play void. Psalms 90:10 says a man is appointed three score and 10. A score is 20, three scores, sixty and 10, so it is 70 years. When you see yourself going above 70 years, you are living a bonus and it is my clarion call and hope that the Minister should not go into the environs of life and maybe come down or even expunge that urge because for someone to attain the age of 70, even the Bible recognises that this is a cut-off point and anything above that -there is I think it is number five commandment where if you honour your father and mother, you will be honoured with long life on this earth. So it is my thinking that we expunge that.
However, also issue of pension, I want to go to the Hon. Minister and say just one term of five years should allow members to be pensionable because of this one reason. I will go to Poland first. Poland had 1.3 million people who perished during the Second World War and they are seeking reparations from Germany now as we speak. In Zimbabwe, 1 130 whites of colonial origin perished and they have pensions now in London which somehow are taking care of their origins from Zimbabwe. There are more than 10 000 war collaborators, restrictees, detainees and fighters that perished and 10 000 residents that perished. So all in all, we had over 20 000 perish because of the war of liberation but you will find that the pension and the payouts are not as robust, resilient, vociferous, efficient and effective as those of those that we fought against.
It is time that we own our own and the formerly marginalised black majority who form part of a big part, except for Hon. Markham and that other lady, of this august House. It is unfortunate that we still are in these surroundings with a colonial past. You can see that this takes its roots from the Londoners and the erstwhile colonisers. The only benefit we can get now as Parliamentarians, please give us pension after five years. If you want and you say it in your heart, you can apply it retrospectively.
Hon. Members out there who were in Seventh and Eight Parliament, some of them, especially the Eighth Parliament getting into the Ninth Parliament, 64% remained in the Eight Parliament. So it is my thinking Hon. Chair, if the Hon. Minister can see it in his heart to take care of Members of Parliament in that regard and also I have given the reason why I think compensation is very key and we also need to complement your purse by getting Boris Johnson and the erstwhile colonisers to compensate us. They came through with the Pioneer Column with nothing except a bag and they massacred our own en masse in Chimoio and Freedom Camp in Zambia. It is time that they pay reparations to Zimbabwe. I have given an example of Poland seeking trillions of dollars from Germany. So that is a benchmark Hon. Minister Sir. Thank you and I am quite sure the people of Chegutu West Constituency are proud of me that I have put across the issues as espoused.
HON. DR. MURIRE: Thank you Chairman. I am rising also to make my comment on that clause. That clause seems to be penalising somebody who chooses to serve the nation as a Member of Parliament. Why I say so, most of our State services pensions regulations fix the retirement age at 60 and also if one chooses to go on early retirement at 50. Now because one chooses to become an MP, he is actually being denied to retire because not many of us reach the age of 70.
So it is either that provision is set to comply with other State serves pensions regulations so that the age boundaries should be 60 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - It is my opinion. You will stand up and say yours.
I am talking about what is provided for in the State services pensions regulations and early retirement is 50. So because the engagement of a Member of Parliament is five years, it therefore follows that there is reason to reduce it further down to 50 years if ever we have to talk about age, but my proposal is that the age issue should not come into question. What should come to question is the service that the Member of Parliament serves and putting it to one term actually makes the old people like ourselves struggling to seek for a second term and yet after five years, a person like myself, it is not that I would want to seek a second term. I would be content with one term but because I do not have pension, I have to struggle with my children who are coming to become an MP as well. More importantly, my contribution after five years and being 60 as I am now will not be meaningful because I cannot make noise that happens here in Parliament all the days. So I propose that after one term, a person should be given pension and go and rest.
Secondly, we should seek reference to those who also serve the State. Vice Presidents go for one term and they get a pension. So what is wrong with Members of Parliament who are serving the State? They should also be given one term. That is my proposal. Thank you Chairman.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Chairman for affording me this opportunity. I just want to add a few words to support what was said by other Hon. Members that Members of Parliament should get pension.
It should not matter Mr. Chairman for how many months I have been in Parliament. If I have been in Parliament for 10 months, then they should calculate that as a term. They should not calculate it as 10 months. A Member of Parliament comes to Parliament for five years, but when they leave Parliament, those people suffer because there are a lot of things that they have to take care of.
HON. MOKONE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I would like to support the other Hon. Members who have said that the age of 70 must be scrapped off. I am a good example here and I have been thinking how I will reach that age of 70 and whether I will be alive at 70. So I would like to support the idea that we do away with the age of 70 and even the age of 50 is not good because some of us have not yet reached 40 something years. I support that the age of 70 should be scrapped. Thank you.
HON. DR. MUTODI: Thank you Chair for allowing me to add my voice to the issue of pension for Members of Parliament. I think we deliberated again and again in the past sessions the fact that a Member of Parliament has been elected and serves for a certain period of time serving the nation as a Member of Parliament that requires recognition by the nation. Pension for a Member of Parliament, for it to come after two terms, I think it will attract unnecessary contestation and bickering for positions like what the other Hon. Member said that at the age of 60 he wants to retire.
You find that the work that a Member of Parliament does over a period of one or two years and up to the end of five years, it is a lot of work that adds to the development of the country. The number of laws that the Member of Parliament would have contributed in the law making process is enormous and that work needs to be rewarded. I would like to urge the Minister to just accept what the Hon. Members are saying. He is also a Member of Parliament and he needs to agree with us that one term is enough for a Member of Parliament to be pensioned and to be paid all the benefits that befits a Member of Parliament. I thank you.
+HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to add my voice. I would like to buttress what was said by all the Hon. Members on the issue of pension. I would like to say that pension should be given after five years but if an Hon. Member passes away after a year or two years, that person should be pensioned because he would have died and it will be God’s will. If he dies, his children will suffer but if a person is recalled by his political party, then he should not get the pension but if he dies by God’s will, then he should get the pension. I rest my case.
HON. PROF M. NCUBE: This clause is simple. It was not requesting for one term or two terms. It was just trying to assist Hon. Members with something else. What is else; the else is a situation where a Member has actually been contributing to the pension and they have been so successful in winning elections. They have won their first term up to maybe the fourth or fifth term but they continue contributing without being able to benefit from the pension. So we were saying that if you hit the age of 70, even if you are a serving member uchingosevenza oramba uchingohwinha, be able to draw down on your pension. That is all.
We can argue about the age of 70 to say let us reduce it. My proposal is like this, we can do two things. We can just park this clause and I go back and consult on the one term, two terms but I cannot argue for one term here. I have not deliberated over that financially and I need to consult. We can park it and then we consult Public Service Commission and as Hon. Members, we can debate this in our budget retreat, add power to that and agree on a position at that three day budget retreat, then come back here, I insert a clause and we will all agree and pass it.
That is what I propose and I would rather we park it and then come back to it in November because I cannot agree to a one term proposal without full consideration. All I was trying to do was to assist you with one simple issue of the 70 years but on the 70 years, I also want to propose that let us drop it to 65 if that helps. –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- If 65 years will not do then I propose we park this clause and we come back in November and we agree in full whether we are looking at 50 years or one term and then we can debate it further and properly. So let us park it Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Clause 36 put and deleted.
Clause 36 put and deleted.
Hon Members from both sides of the House having consulted with the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): If I could take the floor with your permission Chair and just add something else to give comfort to Hon. Members. Hon. Members have been making their contributions while we were talking in this corner, which is also good. They were also giving me more ideas about what happens in the case of death, and so forth. It gets very complicated. What I would then suggest is that we create a committee that is linked to the Welfare Committee which is under the CSRO to deal with this issue and interact with us in Government as we consult so that we get to a common position by early November when we retreat and then we come back with a proposal that we all agree with and pass. That is what I would suggest.
Clause 36, put and deleted
On Clause 37:
Clauses 37 and 38 put and deleted.
On Clause 39:
HON. MUSHORIWA: We just seek clarification from the Hon. Minister. What is the mischief that the Hon. Minister is trying to sort out under this amendment on Clause 39? Why do you have the definition of petroleum products, what is the reason? The other option is actually to expunge it from the Bill.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Clause 39 is quite straightforward, basically in the Income Tax Act, the definition of petroleum products was missing. All we have done is to add it that is all.
We found that there is a gap in the Petroleum Act, there is no full definition of Petroleum products but these petroleum products are fully defined in the Income Tax Act. So, we are just making sure that there is congruency between the two and that is what then will be included. I am requesting that it be included in the Petroleum Act because they are currently missing. I thank you.
Clause 39, put and agreed to
On Clause 40:
HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of order! Let us deal with Clause 3 which we parked yesterday because it may have some other areas that are affected by the concessions by the Hon. Minster under Clause 40.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Let us finish the schedule then we come back to Clause 3.
On Clause 40;
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): On that Schedule which is Clause 40, I would like members to turn to the item pertaining to tax exemption. We moved that from 2 500 if you recall to 4 000, that is on page 23, line 35 if we have the same pages. That is the amendment so that it is consistent with what we agreed to yesterday. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 40 put and agreed to.
Clause 40, as amended, put and agreed.
On Clause 3:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move that we revert to Clause 3. What was remaining was that Hon. Members wanted to know what that table will then look like in terms of the bands and the applicable income tax rate. I will share that soon Hon. Chair, what was requested after we agreed on the minimum amount in terms of tax threshold of $900 000. I give the specified rates as follows per band and we have six bands;
- 0 – 375 000 tax rate is 0 %
- 375 001 – 715 000 tax rate is 20%
- 715 001 – 1 300 000 tax rate is 25%
- 1 300 001 – 2 400 000 tax rate is 30%
- 2 400 001 – 5 000 000 tax rate is 35%
- 5 000 001 and more tax rate is 40%
These figures pertain to the last five months of the year. So this
375 000 actually translates to the 75 000 a month times the number of months remaining to December. That is how it is actually captured because we have only got five months in the year. Remember these are annual figures and they reflect the cumulative for the remaining time of the year which is five months. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Minister, I think the officials have actually shortchanged us. There is something amiss. If you check from the rate of 35%, they have actually retained the figures as they were in the book and also on 40%. If we had actually moved like we agreed yesterday then we could actually have expected that the changes could also go to the other brackets but for you to then retain them as they are, I think that is not fair. I think they need to be pushed up as you have done.
HON. BITI: Also Mr. Chairman, it does not matter that there are five months to the year end. The increase in the tax free threshold made by the Minister yesterday of ZWL900 000 should be reflected in the first band. The only thing that will happen because it is very clear that you are saying with effect from the 1st August, what it means is that the accountant or auditor will then say from 1st January to 31st July, it is
0– 250 000 and then from 1st August to 31st December it is now the 700 000. The band should have what we agreed yesterday and that is the formula. So what the officials are telling you is not correct. Then there is a multiplier on all the other bands. They cannot remain static but your bands are remaining static, meaning that the officials have not taken into account the fact that the point of entry is now ZWL900 000. Do not be worried about the four months. The operative date is 1st August, so what you have done there is to give a nightmare to accountants in the businesses.
I am basically saying the rates must change to acknowledge what we agreed yesterday, namely that there is a tax free threshold of ZWL900 000. So, the tax free threshold band 1 must be 0 to 900 000. Then the second band is from 900 000. The Minister said they are calculating for the remaining five months and that is irrelevant because the person calculating knows that from 1st January to 31st July, they will use the non-concessionary of 300 000 which we changed. From the 1st of August, 900 000 is now the concessionary. So these bands must change. It is the drafters’ error.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I want to buttress the point which has been ably articulated by Hon. Biti. I just wanted to illustrate that you had several bands under Clause 3 and once you increase the bottom figure which was starting at 375 000, it has now been adjusted and it translates to 75 000 dollars per month. This means that any person who earns 75 000 and below is exempt from tax. However, it then follows that all the others who were supposed to be taxed at the various levels which are clear – these officials have short changed the people of Zimbabwe.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you so much Hon. Chairman. I listened to the Hon. Minister’s response and the Hon. Minister in his response tried to justify the removal of tax on unbeneficieted minerals because he was saying that we were going to the question of these miners paying their royalties. When we then moved to the section, we then realised that we are removing tax on the minerals because they will be compensated by the royalties. I think we are shortchanging the fiscus.
Hon. Chairman, I am saying so because the Hon. Minister, in his response, when we were arguing why miners should pay their royalties half in ZWL and half in forex; it then brought us to the position that we were arguing under Clause 18 to simply say that the benefits of removing this unbeneficiated platinum is outweighed. We are getting nothing from the royalties, half USD and half ZWL. So our position is to say let us just retain the tax on unprocessed minerals.
Hon. Chairman, when I came in, to just illustrate to you the challenges that we face. Close to my constituency, they do brick molding, all the bricks that we see, that is the Beta and the Chinese have invaded on all these bricks. Do you know what they are doing? In addition to brick molding, they are actually mining and getting gold and Government knows about the minerals that are being mined in that area. All those minerals are just being exported and nothing is coming to the fiscus. We are saying that it is wrong for the Hon. Minister to remove this taxation.
In any event, in 2019, we agreed with the Hon. Minister when he moved to remove it under the promise - [HON. BITI: It was in 2018.] – 2018 yes, in his maiden Budget. He said that in 2021, these miners have made an undertaking that platinum would now be processed in Zimbabwe. We are now in 2022 and nothing is happening. I can tell you that by the time we end this Parliament, next year, the miners will be paying nothing. We cannot allow that to continue Mr. Chairman that was my submission.
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, the Hon. Minister in his maiden Budget delivered on 27th November, 2018 actually gave the same concessions to these Houses and they have nothing and will do nothing because they are not interested. So what we propose Hon. Chairman is that the tax must remain there, if anything, there must be a punitive tax to encourage them to do and to construct the refinery. The Hon. Minister also, if you suspend and they do not construct. You must also ask them to refund, if we have to maintain this and to refund, there must be penalties.
I just want to talk about tax exemptions. There is an organisation Mr. Chairman, called the Just Tax Network. It is based in Nairobi, Kenya. It is full of brilliant economists and so forth and they have done studies that these tax exemptions, tax holidays given to these mining houses are costing Africa USD3 billion annually. If you look at Zimbabwe, the tax concessions we have given to GDI – I refer to the Statutory Instrument that the Hon. Minister gazetted in the Government Gazette in March of last year. The concessions we have given virtually to everyone, are we getting a corresponding return? I submit Mr. Chairman.
When you look at the state of under development around mining communities and when you look at the fact that 100 years after colonialism, there is no value addition of our minerals, tax breaks, special initial allowances are costing Africa. The lesson that we should learn from 100 years of being exploited by these multi-national corporations is that they are just here to extract vari kungouya kuzoti mora, vachimora, vachimora; isu maZimbabweans tichitambura. So this tax break does not benefit anyone. In my Second Reading, I said that iyo ZIMPLATS iyoyi ine 176 million ounces of platinum, chabuda kuZIMPLATS hakuna. If we were selling these platinum concessions that we are giving, we will be driving our economy. So let us wake up for a change, takafunda saka tinofanira kuita better than vana sekuru vedu vakatorerwa zviminda mugore ra1890. Vana sekuru vedu vanototi tsamwira kuti muchiri kutengesa nyika, isu takapihwa shuga tikakabira. Isu toramba tichingo kabira nhasi? Hazviite Mr. Chairman, let us say no to this tax.
HON. C. MOYO: Hon. Chairman, it is my humble submission that the Hon. Minister seeks to increase the royalties by 5%, especially for those companies that are engaged in the exploitation of platinum. I think the percentage is too small. It has to be increased maybe to 7% or 10%. I am saying so because when we talk of underdevelopment, our resources are being taken by those engaged in foreign direct engagement in foreign direct investment. They must be encouraged to come and do smelting here and we have the finer products that we can attach value on the finished products. Instead of giving them 5%, which is too little, let us raise it to 10%. In line with the NDS1, it is one of the pillars of NDS1 to do beneficiation and value addition. It is my prayer to the Hon. Minister to raise the percentage as a way of collecting revenue. Can you imagine, at Zimplats no one is paid in RTGS, even the unskilled staff. That is a reflection that they are very rich. They can afford 10% and we increase our revenue. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. As always, I am going to say this issue we call minerals is a finite resource. The more we procrastinate, the longer we will become destitute. These minerals are the only things which we have. The operators and mining houses are going to leave gaping holes before we come up with robust and resilient policies in order that we benefit and value add our God-given natural resources. It is finite in this way Hon. Minister, in my constituency there is this animal called Pickstone Peerless Mine. They started on open cast and now they are doing deep shaft so that they can have tunnels as far as I can see. My clarion call is, let us have our royalties now. Not only that, let us peg them at 10 or 15%. If you do not do that, you cannot apply the law in retrospect because there will be nothing to apply the law to. If the reason for the law has gone, there is no more need to have that law. You strike it off. This is a finite resource and it is going and it is gone.
We started talking about beneficiation and value edition. If you remember an Hon. Member called Hon. Chidakwa at the time, he was Minister of Mines, he is no longer there and Zimplats were procrastinating and giving him all funny stories. I told him, standing here that Minister, these people are going to hoodwink you. Today, they have collapsed mine shaft Bima and it is now back on track but they are still removing PGMs to Armplats in South Africa. Nothing has benefited Zimbabwe. Further to that Mr. Chairman, I would make a suggestion to the Hon. Minister that the shares of some of these mining houses are premised on the value of our mineral resources, which mineral resources, some of them are not being extracted ahead for speculative purposes. This is why Government has taken over 26 thousand hectares of platinum redeem claims and given to Carroll Resources. It is because the shares of these mining houses in Australia, London, South Africa and America – the values which are premised on our God-given natural resources that I heard for speculative purposes, our artisanal miners are getting arrested, sometimes without option of a fine, they are incarcerated because they have dared to extract minerals from claims held for speculative purposes.
Go further Hon. Minister, explore those claims held for speculative purposes and get royalties. Just do rough calculation as to what is it that you will gain assuming they were being extracted so that it outlaws speculative behaviour, especially from the mining houses. These are the same people that are calling on recolonisation of our country but are holding our claims for speculative purposes. You are the gold finger and the issues to do with finance should reside with you and in terms of our minerals, your heart should be on the right side.
Hon. Minister and Mr. Chairman, I rest my case and say, let it be 10% and more. Please look aside when they cry because they are looking at finite resource. This will never sprout from the ground again after extraction. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Chairman. The problem that worries us is that for a long time the Government has been having our minerals being stolen. Our minerals are being taken out of the country without any follow ups. There is no proper accounting. Do we have a Government official who observes what has been sold and how much money has been raised out of the sale of these commodities? The Government is not in a position to say that half RTGS and half USD when in fact the minerals are being sold using foreign currency. Where does the RTGS component come from when the commodity is being sold in hard currency? Minister, this country is very rich because of our natural resources. This idea of having our commodity being exported without any follow ups is very dangerous.
The Minister should know where the goods are being exported to if it were possible. We want to create jobs and we have the mantra that the nation is built by its own people. The Minister should employ people that would be at these destinations where our minerals are being sold, be it South Africa, Japan or any other place. We should have people seeing how much is being raised. There are billions of dollars that are being raised. There is no TRGS in those particular markets. There should be no way that people are paid half in RTGS and half in foreign currency. At the same time the same people are benefiting from the RBZ auctions. They are also paid in RTGS when they are not selling their commodities in RTGS. No platinum is being sold in Zimbabwe using Zimbabwean dollars. No Zimbabwean buys platinum but it is sold all over the world, either in South Africa in Rand but they use the USD. In Japan and America, they also use the USD. Then we have problems where Zimbabwe is failing to raise money when the money is out there. I propose that there should be no payment for minerals by half ZWD and half USD unless they are artisanal miners. I am saying that 5% should remain or maybe, increase it to 10% because these people have money. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to add my voice to this debate. We are failing to run our mines because we inherited the system from Smith. Smith with the Lonrho used to use it as a vehicle for exporting minerals. They were siphoning minerals to their countries. We are still doing the same and we are giving mining concessions to miners that are outside the country. We are poor and we are earning meaningless salaries because we have only asked them to pay royalties. It is my suggestion that we have mines that are for the Government. Concessions that are given to foreigners are being used as a conduit to fleece the country of minerals and we simply receive a minimum of 5% royalties, which is insignificant. We have these minerals and we should use them for developing our country. Our country cannot develop through royalties. Re-examine the issue of royalties and see how best we can move away from the Smith way of doing things, using Lonrho and indigenise everything. We are having Chinese who are coming here, mining and exporting the chrome to their country and other minerals and we still remain poor. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Chair, once again, I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. Let me recognise them, starting with Hon. Nduna, Hon. Murire, Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Biti and Hon. Chinotimba. Hon. Members, Clause 18 is just a proposal, just to suspend this beneficiation tax for 12 months starting from 1st January, 2022. This suspension will expire and we revert to taxing those who have not complied. So they only have five months to comply. We have given them whatever time from January to now and they are only left with five months. Then we go back to that tax. That is all we have done.
We gave this concession understanding that we will also increase the royalty. Currently, the royalty is basically 2% and I have proposed in Clause 32. Members were also debating Clause 32 without realising it. So, there is a proposal where Hon. Nduna was talking about 10 to 15%. In the spirit of compromise, I propose as follows: we maintain Clause 18 because we only have five months to go and then the beneficiation tax will come back. On Clause 32, which Members have raised, I propose that royalty for platinum and lithium be increased to 7% - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. If you grant them a concession, then they do not perform. Surely you must take back the concession. So, can you insert a provision that if they do not, they refund with interest? Remember you gave them this concession in your maiden budget.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Member for that contribution. We do not need to be very harsh. We are trying to improve the environment for doing business. We discovered that this was punitive and we agree to suspend it for 12 months. We have consulted with the companies and we also consulted tax experts. They also agree on this. They are only left with five months to comply. For you to say if they do not comply they have to pay with interest, no. That is too punitive Hon. Chair. Ngatifambei, tiende mberi. I heard you said compromise is to increase the lithium and the platinum in Clauses 12 and 32 because those two are linked in a way. That was a compromise so that at least Members feel we are trying to address so that we collect revenue from our minerals. I also move that we amend Clause 32, where we increase the royalty for lithium and platinum to 7%. I thank you.
Amendments to Clause 18, put and agreed to.
Clause 18, as amended, pit and agreed to.
Amendments to Clause 32 put and agreed to
Clause 32, as amended, put and agreed to.
The Hon. Chair having announced that they were reverting to Clause 3.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Hon. Chair, I come back on that table on Clause 3 which Members felt was a bit confusing and I have confirmed with my staff. By the way, they are still conferring with the drafters as well and all that, but really when you read that paragraph, there is an explanation which says that these new rates will apply.
Chair, when you read that clause which refers to ‘with effect from 1st August’, it is clear. So we can, I think, amend accordingly in terms of what the Members are requesting which is just to show those tables in annual form in terms of 12 months. What I mean by that is, for band one, it should read up to ZWL900 000 at 0% then it will not cause confusion to the tax people. So the second band will read ZWL900 001 to ZWL1 716 000 with a tax rate of 20%.
The next band three is ZWL1 716 001 to ZWL3.12 million at 25% rate. The next one is ZWL3 120 001 to ZWL5 760 000 with a tax rate of 30%. Then the next band which is the fourth band is now ZWL5 760 001to ZWL12 million taxed at 35%. The last band which is ZWL12 000 001 or more taxed at 40%, I thank you.
Amendment to clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
Business of the House was suspended at Six Minutes to Eight o’clock p.m. and resumed at Twenty Minutes past Eight o’clock p.m.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have received a non-adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Finance Bill [H. B. 9A, 2022].
CONSIDERATION STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B .9, 2022]
Amendments to Clauses 2, 3, 4, 5, 21, 22, 24, 25, 30, 32, 33 and Schedule, put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE) I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
SECOND READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 8, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam Speaker, on the 28th of July, 2022, I presented to this august House the 2022 Supplementary Estimates amounting to ZWL$929.3 billion that is Vote Appropriation amount of ZWL$851.4 billion and Constitutional and Statutory Appropriations (Pensions, Interest and Intergovernmental Fiscal Transfers) total ZWL$77.8 billion.
The Vote appropriations of ZWL$851.4 billion are broken down as follows:
- Employment costs - ZWL$428 billion
- Use of Goods and Services - 8 billion
- Capital Expenditure - ZWL$162.5 billion
Madam Speaker, the purpose of this Bill is to give effect to the
Supplementary 2022 expenditures that were presented to the National Assembly.
I seek approval for a supplementary budget of ZWL$851.4 billion to cater for additional provisions and reforms mainly related to the following areas:
- Stimulation of production targeting agriculture, industry and other productive sectors;
- Food security including;
- Grain procurement to mitigate the effect of drought conditions;
- Support towards agricultural inputs.
- Welfare of civil servants and pensioners;
- Social services delivery and social protection;
- Infrastructure and utilities;
- Constitutional requirements including transfers to provincial councils and local authorities and support for governance institutions;
- Support for Government operations; and
The supplementary expenditures being proposed are however
designed in a way that they are in line with increased revenues and will be implemented without compromising fiscal discipline and upsetting set fiscal targets.
To accommodate the additional requirements, I have revised the 2022 budget of ZWL$968.3 billion, taking account the additional expenditures of ZWL$929.3 billion to bring the total budget to ZWL$1 897 billion.
I am, therefore, presenting to this august House, the Supplementary Estimates for 2022 and the accompanying Appropriation (Supplementary Bill) (2022) for consideration and approval by Hon. Members.
I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: In terms of Standing Order No. 125 (8) and (9), the Bill shall not be committed to the Committee of the whole House and the motion of the Third Reading shall be decided without amendment or debate.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 8, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam Speaker, I move that the Appropriation (Supplementary) Bill [H. B. 8, 2022] be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI seconded by HON. TEKESHE, the House adjourned at Nineteen Minutes to Nine o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 20th September, 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 1st September, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. SEKERAMAYI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 2 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 3 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS
THE ACTING PRESIDENT (HON. SEN. KAMBIZI): Due to the suspension of orders yesterday, we do not have Ministers to answer questions today. Therefore, we do not have Questions Without Notice and Questions with Notice as the Ministers are not there.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE STATUS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS AND ACCESS TO ANTE-NATAL CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN IN PRISONS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and access to ante-natal care for pregnant women in prisons.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Mr. President, I am one of the Hon. Senators who was part of the delegation which was touring prisons to investigate the circumstances surrounding the welfare of women who are incarcerated in different prisons. It might seem like two crimes that were committed; a crime that was committed by the mother and the child. My desire is that Government should intervene because our children are suffering. You find children growing up in a constricted and constrained environment. Children should be free where they can associate with other children but you find children growing in prisons where their mothers are incarcerated. Government should intervene in this case because this is affecting our children who are our future leaders.
I would also like to ask that Government should build pre-schools in prisons for children who are three or four years old since they may spend three or four years in jail because of the crimes that were committed by their mothers. It is prudent that such children should grow up experiencing the life that is experienced by other children of their age.
The second point being that the mothers are facing big challenges as depicted from the issues that they expressed. They said at times food does not get to these prisoners on time. I do not know whether it is possible or not, to build more facilities to house prisoners. There are 20 to 30 women who share one toilet. We know that these are people who are incarcerated and are serving jail terms but some of these things are not good. So, I am saying that as this august House, Government should intervene so that these issues are resolved.
There was an old woman whom we saw in Nkayi who was alone and could be around 70 years old. She was alleged to have stolen chickens and she had a livestock offence that she was facing. You end up not understanding whether this is a genuine or fabricated crime. My point is that such elderly people should not be imprisoned. Government should look into these cases, especially cases which involve old women for that matter. Imagine such an old person facing prison life at her advanced age. This is sad and painful.
Furthermore, we went to this Bulawayo prison where you find those who are mentally challenged being in the same facility with those who are sane. This was really sad because those with mental challenges should be institutionalised in a different facility. What if the mentally challenged prisoners attack those who are not? Government should therefore intervene in this and resolve the issue.
The health of our women in Zimbabwe is compromised. I believe that in every prison, there should be an ambulance nearby so that when prisoners fall sick, they get immediate medical assistance. Some of these women are incarcerated while they are pregnant and they may face a logistic challenge if they want to go to the maternity ward. I therefore implore this august House to take this motion seriously. Being incarcerated does not mean death, but this is rehabilitation. Sometimes people are rehabilitated in a tough way; some are incarcerated while in good health and leave jail in a critical condition. So, it is my plea that this issue be resolved. Female prisons are not in a good state. They are deplorable and it is not good to be incarcerated but it is good that people are rehabilitated so that they are reintegrated into society. Those who are imprisoned whilst they have small children need proper facilities. I do not know how this will be solved because it is important that proper facilities are built to help both parents and their children. Maybe this should be addressed through the promulgation of legal statutes which deal with such situations. You find mothers who are incarcerated with their children and this affects the children because the relatives do not want to entertain the children. When the mothers go out of jail, you might find that there might be discrimination even of their children. I thank you Mr. President Sir.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to appreciate the motion that was moved by Sen. Chief Ndlovu together with the Gender Committee. It is really affecting people that such situations exist where you find children with their mothers in jail because their livelihood and childhood is affected. Sometimes you find others adopting bad practices and some might end up accepting jail as a normal institution or normal place to be. Even the language that is used is not good. You find some children at times copying behaviour which is unacceptable. Children are more affected than adults. They hear more than adults and they copy behaviour through social learning and seeing what other people will be doing. For them to sieve information to determine whether it is good or bad sometimes is difficult. You find that parents committed different crimes; some killed and others committed robbery cases. So, I do not believe that children are learning good lessons. We are told that we must teach our children whilst they are young so that they are well behaved. Those who stay in jail at times take up that behaviour which is found in jails and take it as normal. When they leave jail, it becomes difficult to adjust to the outside environment because they are used to the prison environment. In women’s prisons, there should be proper and enough clothing. We visited one prison during winter time. We asked whether prisoners were allowed to wear jerseys from their homes – we were told that they are not allowed. Even the police and prison officers are not allowed to wear civilian clothes at work. When Government cannot provide proper clothing for the mothers, children and pregnant women, then relatives should be allowed to bring clothing, especially during the winter season.
I was really touched and also giving the same facilities to those who are mentally ill and those who are not, it is really painful and it is not proper. It is demeaning sometimes to find someone who is not clothed. We saw some women who were naked in prison. This is embarrassing to see someone moving around naked. It is a sorry state. Clothing is a basic need for human beings and private parts should always be covered. We always say that our children should wear decent clothes. This is the same with the situation where we find mentally ill prisoners moving around without clothes. This situation makes children vulnerable because if they see naked women, for example if a young boy grows up in prison seeing naked women without clothes, he will not respect women and he will not be ashamed to see naked women; rape and abuse is so possible because of what they see in prisons. They will believe that it is good yet it is bad. They can get used to using vulgar or graphic language and it is embarrassing. That is why we are imploring Government to intervene and build proper facilities for such people because if relatives are to come and take these children whose mothers are incarcerated, some may abuse them and may not look at them like their own children. This is really difficult for these children.
Even when the mother comes back from jail, it is difficult for the child to unite with her, hence the need to establish proper rehabilitation facilities so that children will grow up learning and will be groomed by people who will teach them how to be responsible citizens from ECD A, B and other stages of elementary education because when you hear prisoners talking, some do not even choose words they say about their behaviour. We will not be teaching our children the right things but bringing them up in a hostile environment where they learn bad things. I believe that if these children are assisted with clothes, food; sometimes donor agencies bring food but sometimes they fail to do that. At one point we went to a certain prison where the relish/vegetables were cooked without any cooking oil. They just boiled the food. This is a situation which needs the intervention of churches and other institutions. We asked whether prison officials could not provide what is needed from within and we were told that there are some prisons with farms where they grow their own produce but some do not have such facilities.
Government should intervene because some children are talented but we cannot identify that talent in jail. If they are taken to a neutral institution, those who teach them may identify their talents – whether they are soccer players, athletes and other different disciplines because they grow up in jail, it is difficult for them to excel. For instance, you find those who are talented in sport or academic disciplines might benefit from these skills so that they are groomed properly. If this is delayed, children who grow up in prisons behave negatively.
Pregnant and lactating women should also be separated because you will never know what will be happening amongst this community. I request that children be accommodated separately from their mothers who are in prison so that they are given the opportunity to learn and associate with other children because this is where we have future leaders. I thank you.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I would like to wind up the debate and thank all the Hon. Senators who debated this report. Almost 95% of Senators in this House debated the report passionately. It is our hope that the relevant Ministry takes note of the recommendations of our Committee on Gender and Development Thematic Committee because accompanying the report, we made recommendations as to what we think would be a way forward . We would also want to think that the relevant Ministry is going to take note of the submissions that were made by Hon. Senators in this august House as they debated passionately about an issue that affects our children who are our future. The cry and appeal is that Government has to have some corrective measures to attend to the situation of our children who are accompanying mothers in prisons. We cannot over emphasise how dire the situation is Mr. President.
With those few remarks Mr. President, I move for the adoption of the report. Thank you
Motion that this House take note of the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers, put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 6th September, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE STREETS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on vulnerable
children living in the streets.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mpofu for this emotional motion about street kids. Looking at the causes of the street kids, we find that there are various reasons. Some of them may have been through rural-urban migration, when rural folk come to urban areas and they do not have relatives. So they end up having the streets as their residence. There is also the difficult socio-economic circumstances that people face in the rural areas; so they end up coming to towns. Some children, because, they have constrained freedom in their homes to a certain level, believe that there is no limit to freedom on the streets.
So the less privileged children who move to the streets …
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order Hon. Sen. Mabika, you have already contributed to this motion.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: I am sorry Mr. President Sir, I had forgotten.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to appreciate the motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Mpofu regarding the plight of street kids which is quite a touching issue related to what we are discussing regarding those children who grow up in prisons. Street kids are living deplorable lives and the question is maybe Government should intervene and remove these children from the streets.
Often times, it seems as if these children enjoy being on the streets as some will come begging. They beg with their parents sitting nearby. A certain street kid said that my mother is sitting by the corner. I said to myself, today is a school day but you find on a school day, a mother begging together with her children, and neglecting her children’s talents. You will find that there are some musicians who were once street kids, meaning that every child has a gift that should be natured and used but they are not able to use such gifts because they live on the streets. So it is important to help these children so that they are put in an institution where they are taught vocational skills and other life skills that will help them in their lives.
I would also like to say that the challenge is that some parents use children to beg. You give the children a dollar but they demand for more money, USD5.00 and more. They know that USD5.00 is a lot of money but maybe it is also difficult to raise USD5.00. When you give them local currency, they refuse. When you give them buns, some do not want but they want Chicken Inn and takeaways. So, this really is a bad habit. Even the issue of an extended family looking after children is difficult because of the prevailing economic challenges. It is difficult for someone to look after children from different households. In the past, this was possible.
Government maybe should implore the extended family to look after orphans by providing basic essentials like mealie-meal and other basics. It is difficult for different families to look after their own families. However, adding onto that burden with relatives’ orphans then we will be making it very difficult for them but for those who are able, maybe they should say that we are taking one or two children. Due to the prevailing economic challenges, you will find no one is committed to do that, even to take a single child.
You will also find that the number of street kids is increasing by the day. When you do not give them food, some can even insult you because they are not properly brought up. When they beg and you do not respond positively, they insult you. When you see them fighting, you may think that they will kill each other. They are not afraid of injuring each other; meaning that when they fight, should any other person who does not live on the street try to intervene by stopping the fight, they can even kill that person.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA speaking... they can even kill that person. I do not know how to explain this but these children are very intimidating because when you meet a street kid, you just wish they do not do anything bad to you. I heard that some were taken to a certain place for rehabilitation but they ran away and went back to the streets because they are not used to being institutionalised. They are used to begging and stealing people’s food and possessions. It is important that there should be serious laws which empower even the police to remove them away from the streets. If they are not chased away from the streets, they will continue coming back. Sometimes you fail even to get into the shop to buy because street kids will be pestering you.
I would also like to point out that it is really difficult to help because we do not know what to do about it because some will be thinking of bronco and others hard core drugs. The police should be empowered to chase them away from the streets and take them to an institution where they will be rehabilitated because they are an eyesore in the big cities. They must be assisted. When you go by the foot bridge in town, you would find that they mess around the city. No sober person would go to defecate on the footbridge. When you go to Julius Nyerere and cross that road, you would find that it is really difficult. These children should be helped and should be taken to institutions where they will be rehabilitated and empowered with the vocational skills, whether it is farming, carving and other skills. Some of them are talented. Some can farm and others can be sculptures. It is important that such skills are identified. There are some musicians who were street kids. You would see that their skills can be exploited if these children are rehabilitated and put into institutions. They run back to the streets because they do not want to work. They do not want smaller denominations and bond notes but they demand USD5 and above. They do not want buns; they want Chicken Inn. There should be a way of rehabilitating these children so that they are taken away from the streets and people can move around freely doing their shopping. Some follow you while some steal from you and after stealing, they work in groups to hide the handbags.
The life on the streets is hard. It is not life which is meant for children who would be tomorrow’s fathers or mothers. The young girls who live on the streets are sick. They get different diseases and they spread such diseases. Some people would leave their families getting into the streets to exploit the young girls who end up giving birth to fatherless children who will live on the streets again. You will find that this kind of behaviour will continue and this is a problem which is going to affect them in the future. It is important to help street children.
When they are taken to institutions, we need to make sure that they do not run away coming back to the streets. We want our streets to be clean. There is a lot of litter in the streets and this is bad. When tourists come, they are pestered by street kids and they might not be comfortable to come back to visit Zimbabwe as some will lose their possessions. I thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 6st September, 2022.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, we are still waiting for the Budget from the National Assembly which has not been concluded up to now. Therefore, we will keep waiting and next week we will also be here anticipating the passing of the Budget from the National Assembly. I encourage all of us to attend physically as from Tuesday, next week. I thank you.
On the motion of HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI, seconded by HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA, the House adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 6th September, 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I want to recognise the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the members of staff from the Parliament of Zambia. Thank you very much, you may sit. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
COMMITTEE STAGE
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9, 2022]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Finance Bill [H. B. 9, 2022].
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to
On Clause 2:
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I would like to debate this clause, primarily for the reason that in view of the hyper inflationary environment that we are living in and the Hon. Minister has accepted that this is of the position and also in view of the sentiments which were expressed by various Hon. Members yesterday, I believe that it is imperative for the Hon. Minister to adjust those thresholds because when you look at the figure of $250 000 and you look at it in the context of the real hard currency, you find that figure is very low and I suggest that the figure should be revised upwards.
When we look at the real value of the Zimbabwean dollar when you look at $250 000 per annum and you try to divide that, I think it comes to something just over 20 800 per month. I believe that you must be really talking of perhaps a figure in the region of 300 000 per month which should not be taxed. I propose that if you multiply 300 000 by 12 you get 4.8 million, probably that is the figure we should be talking about after which persons may be taxed and all the other bands would then be adjusted accordingly.
I so submit Hon. Chair, that the Hon. Minister should revise those figures and propose amendments at this Committee Stage because when you look at the people of Zimbabwe, most of them are living in abject poverty and if you continue punishing them by taxing them when in fact they are only taking just over 20 000 which is the figure reflected by the 250 000 per annum, it does not make any sense at all. I implore the Minister to take this into account and adjust the figures accordingly. Those would be my submissions Hon. Chair Sir. Thank you.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My contribution is that the auction rate during the time when we passed the budget for 2022 was around 1: 85 and it is now 1: 480 and accordingly, any adjustment in terms of tax free threshold should also take note of those changes to the extent that there is need in our view to make sure that the amount of money should have been moved by about five times from $300 000 per annum to something probably around $1.5 million rather than the current situation where the Minister just raises it from $300 000 to $600 000.
I think Mr. Chairman the Minister is aware that we need to come up with pro poor budgets, budgets that could actually then support the country – [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon. Members can we please have less noise in the House.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Chairman, the Minister cannot run around and hide under the pretext that if we do not change the tax threshold that can actually affect his revenue projection. The truth of the matter is that if he raises the minimum threshold to probably 1.5 million, it will result in higher disposable income which in the process will increase the VAT inflows. So in a way it will cancel each other. So in that regard Mr. Chairman, I believe it is imperative for the Minister to actually adjust the figures accordingly.
HON. BITI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I want to add my voice to the debate on Clause 2 of the Bill. This is the one that seeks to increase the tax threshold to $600 000. Six hundred thousand at the official exchange rate is US$50, so it is meaningless, it is pointless. The minimum tax threshold must be measured with the poverty datum line and if the poverty datum salary is USD$282 then the minimum threshold must be as close to that. So we propose Hon. Chairman that the threshold, if it is to make a difference to our people must be at least $1.2 million.
The Minister in his response yesterday said that it will cause inflation. It will not cause inflation and how does it cause inflation? Inflation is not generated by salaries. Salaries do not have an impact on inflation. The point I made yesterday, the low minimum tax threshold is for poorly paid working people and working people have got a marginal propensity to consume, which is high. The person who stays in Dotito, Chiyendambuya, Nkayi, Tsholotsho and Dzivaresekwa, if he gets Z$80 000, all of that will go to expenditure, grocery and it will go to school fees. We do not have the savings in our banks and the money is immediately consumed and so it cannot be a drive of inflation. We know what is driving inflation and as he knows, are the trillions of dollars that are paid in cartels that are constructing roads and cartels that are coming from the auction floor. The working people should have better wages and so he must do the decent thing by paying and giving workers a decent opportunity by increasing the tax free threshold to Z$1.2m. After all, he will get the money back and the money will come back to him through the VAT system. So if we are going to be meaningful, he must do the right thing and increase the tax free threshold to Z$1.2m. I thank you very much.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Just to buttress the point that was raised by my colleagues, Hon. Mushoriwa and Hon. Biti, this budget is meant to be centred on poor people. I would want to agree that by the time we are going to go back on this particular Bill, it will have been eroded by inflation and I humbly submit that it be increased to Z$1.5 million so that it is meaningful in terms of the purchasing power. The workers are suffering and everyone else. In my debate, I alluded to the fact that workers are earning very little money and I submit that the Hon. Minister uses this figure of Z$1.5 million because it is a meaningful figure in terms of the purchasing power. Thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Hon. Chair, it is my humble submission that I need to commend the Hon. Minister for increasing the tax free threshold from between Z$300 000 and Z$600 000. A mere calculation of Z$600 000 could give us about Z$50 000 a month because these figures are annual figures. Z$300 000 and Z$600 000 per annum. However, I also feel that the Hon. Minister may also reconsider by looking at the figures once more – Z$50 000 is also too little according to my perception but a figure around Z$100 000 per month will be fine for our members, especially the civil servants. Thank you.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Chairman. I just want to add that the Minister is saying anyone who earns more than Z$50 000 per month is no longer poor and they can be taxed. The Poverty Datum Line is way above that. In simple terms, he has to review it upwards. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you very much. I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. We are basically looking at both Clause 2 and 3. One is in words and the other is in numbers. I have listened to Hon. Members as they debated and today, I propose that I move the tax free threshold from Z$600 000 to Z$800 000. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the concession but I still believe that that increase is still very little because the basic principle is to put more money in the pockets of the poor like the people in Sakubva, Mbare, Makokoba and the people in Mutapa who are earning very little in terms of salaries but who are on actual salary remuneration. If you look at the proposal which was made by Hon. Members, we are looking at Z$1.2 million and the Hon. Minister is proposing Z$800 000.
I still think that Z$1.2 million was the best figure but in the event that the Hon. Minister feels that he cannot go up to that particular figure, I will still submit that the minimum should be Z$1 million and not anything less than a million. Otherwise I still think that when we are looking at the real figures which we are operating with in this country, we are looking at Z$100 000, that is now very little and when you look at it in the context of what the Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance said in the Senate last week, even the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry, they are all very clear that the main reason why we were having these pressures on the exchange rate was because of the money supply which they have limited and people have still been receiving their salaries but they have been no impact because they stopped giving those trillions of dollars to the service providers.
So at the end of the day, I believe that there will be very little impact on the fiscus if it is increased to Z$1 million and that is what I would submit although I would have preferred the Z$1.2 million but I think as a compromise, let us try to meet half way. Hon. Members have proposed Z$1.2 million, they are prepared to come up to Z$800 000 and I propose that let us meet in between at Z$1 million per annum. That is my submission Hon. Chair.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am here to say that Z$800 000 is a very small figure. May that figure be moved to Z$1 000 000 or Z$1 100 000. I thank you.
*HON. HWENDE: My appeal to the Minister is that if you look at Z$5 000 000 at the prevailing rates, that person is earning less than US$500. If you are going to tax someone earning less than US$500 at 40%, what it means is that for someone who earns US$462, you will take away US$180 from that person. We need to really look at that because the RTGS currency is not working. Most goods and services are sold in US dollars and someone has to change their money on the black market in order for them to be able to buy.
HON. T. MLISWA: We need to factor in the time when the Bill will sail through. During that time, there is inflation and I think because of that, it is only right to put it at Z$1 200 000 because no one has factored in the time. A lot has changed and if you factor in the time, I am sure Z$1 200 000 is quite reasonable, considering inflation.
HON. T. MOYO: I think these figures are applying for the period 1 August 2022 right up to 31 December 2022. There is going to be another negotiation in November when we are going to have another Finance Bill coming in November. I need to applaud the Minister for raising it to Z$800 000 so that we renegotiate in November. I need to support the Minister for raising the figures because they are only applicable for four months only.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Hon. Moyo had come in quite well there. From Z$1 200 000 to $800 000, if we have to do the mathematics and factor in inflation, it means nothing. By the time the Bill sails through, maybe we need to really look at the inflation rate and consider inflation on everything. That is how we should be dealing with it at the end of the day. $800 000 is nothing compared to time. Z$1 200 000 is fair when you factor in the percentage of inflation. If I have to ask anyone right now, what is the percentage of inflation; that is quite critical?
We do not have the aspect of percentage of inflation, we are just thinking aloud here without coming up with a proper figure which is quite dangerous when we debate without proper percentages. $1 200 000 is good and it deals with quite a lot.
HON. MUSHORIWA: We need to put this into proper context. When you say Z$800 000 you need to understand that we are talking of Z$66 000 per month which is too little an amount. I am going to ask the Minister to consider two issues. First and foremost, when we say push it at least to $1 200 000, it will equate to about $100 000 per month which is exempted from tax. It could probably go a long way. When you look at the cost of the very basic things like mealie-meal, sugar and cooking oil, you realise that within that Z$100 000, it would be still too little.
There is another issue which the Hon. Minister needs to take cognisance of. When we passed the Finance Bill of 2022 last year in December, the US dollar component which is exempt from tax is actually higher than the Z$66 000. The Hon. Minister can actually check, the current set up in terms of the US dollar if you multiply that US dollar using the auction rate at the moment, it will tally to Z$1 200 000. To that extent and for the sake of uniformity, let the rate both to the US dollar terms and RTGS term apply. If we do that, we will come to about Z$1 200 000 per annum.
HON. BITI: We are making a strong point to the esteemed Minister of Finance that Z$800 000 only takes the tax free threshold marginally to about Z$52 000 which, with respect, is meaningless given the levels of official inflation which is close to 300%. If we take Hon. Moyo’s proposal that we get to Z$100 000, it will give us Z$1 200 000 per year. It gives the working people some fighting chance because of this threshold. We acknowledge the Minister’s concession in moving from Z$600 000 to Z$800 000. With respect, it is not good enough.
Again with respect to Hon. Moyo, inflation is real - so we cannot postpone the debate to November because we cannot freeze inflation. If there was a possibility of freezing inflation, then we could buy his argument. Mr. Speaker Sir, can I move to the tables at paragraph 3. I was not aware until the Minister said that we are also debating paragraph 3. Those tables in paragraph 3
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon Biti, let us do one at a time.
HON. BITI. Minister, I appeal to you my good friend that let us put the tax-free threshold to Z$1 200 000 which will come to an income that is tax-free of at least Z$100 000 per month. I know you do not stay in Highfield. If you stayed in Highfield, Dotito, Tsholotsho or Chiendambuya - you would understand the political economy of our working people. We are suffering Hon. Chairperson; we are surviving on tsaona which is four leaves of vegetables, a little chivharo chemafuta and a little plate of upfu. So we appeal to the Minister to do the right thing and increase the tax threshold to $1, 2 million which will come to 100 000 per month. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Chair, I would like to add to the debate with regards to the tax free threshold. As I speak, I represent workers. The suffering that the workers are going through right now has never been experienced. I am speaking as a representative of workers not political parties; we cannot go anywhere with 66 000 RTGS. Our workers are suffering; the companies are being forced to close.
The Minister does not know what is happening in the industries, so as we debate, we want him to understand. If only the tax free threshold can go up to $100 000 because as we speak, the salaries that the workers are earning are very deplorable.
When we used to represent workers, we used to call for minimum wages but now the Ministry has realised that if we talk of minimum wage, there will be serious conflict between the employer and the employees. So they opened up to negotiations and as we speak, there is nothing good for employees. Anything that you can buy in a shop is pegged in USD using the parallel market rate. There is no shop that you go into which uses the official rate.
If you realise that it is pegged at the official rate, it means that the price will be very high in USD terms because that way they get to the price they want. Honestly speaking, I am sure most of us, if not most of us are employers, some of us have domestic workers. Some of us are even ashamed of paying their domestic workers because their wages are not sufficient. So I kindly ask with God’s grace that if there is no money, there is nothing much we can do, we may try to barter each other here but we need to move the tax free threshold to $100 000. That is my kind request to the Hon. Minister. As a leader and a representative of workers, I know the workers are very happy when they see us. So as we speak, I am going tell them that we spoke to the Minister. We kindly ask the Minister to listen to us, let us not consider our background parties, whether it is ZANU PF or MDC but let us speak as representatives of workers. I thank you.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. I just want to support what other Hon. Members have already said that the tax free threshold needs to be increased Hon. Minister to $1,2m for few reasons. As you know that by giving more money to our employees, it is also another opportunity for you to put smiles on their faces.
Our employees have been going through difficult times because of what has been obtaining in our economy but I think if you will get what we are submitting here as Hon. Members, I think our employees outside there will be having something to smile over.
Maybe the economic fundamentals may not be allowing but we are imploring you to say let us look at both sides, it might be very difficult but we know from your back pocket, if you give our employees this tax benefit it will make them to smile in a way. By so doing, they will not be so much agitating for salary increase. If we raise or lower the taxes like the way it is now, the challenge is that the disposable income will remain very small. We will always be asking for huge salaries, so I think another way of us dealing with this issue of demanding more salaries is by working around our taxation on the Pay As You Earn so that at least our employees can remain with the same salaries that they are on but at least as the Central Government, we give them more disposal income. In a way they will appreciate such efforts from you our Hon. Minister of Finance.
HON. NDUNA: The issue of tax free thresholds is noble and if it pleases you Hon. Minister, I ask you to get further proposals as to how you can ameliorate the current challenges that the civil servants in particular are facing.
There is what is called non-monetary benefits and I will show you how that has benefited those in the rural side. Those in the rural side have benefited from non-benefits through the issuance of land but fast forward, that land you cannot give it to civil servants, pensioners and urbanites. I would give you a reason why and I will want you to unlock that system that you can use the non-monetary benefits to up the morale of the civil servants, pensioners, artisanal miners and all the urbanites. All the people in the urban areas are angry. The civil servants are angry. The money you are giving them is just a pittance, compared to the cost of living. So it is my thinking that if you look just at the mere salaries, it is going to help you immensely.
The A1 is called a 10 hectare, in the rural area a man who owns 10 hectares has been given that for free….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, the debate is on Clause 2, amendment of Section 14, which is actually dealing with tax free threshold, not only on civil servants but for the generality of workers. - [HON. NDUNA: I am coming there, it is non-monetary benefits to complement…] - No, Hon. Nduna. [HON. NDUNA: Hamudi futi. Ko magarirei padhuze naChair muchivataurira futi zvisiri izvo. Hon. Chair, I am coming to how he can ameliorate. This is non-monetary benefits to augment and complement.] – Hon. Nduna, here we are not debating salaries. We are talking about the tax free threshold. – [HON. NDUNA: Yes, you see Hon. Chair, you will get to where I am coming from. It is going to help the Minister. This is clause by clause, why do you not listen? It is the only time Hon. Chair, where I am allowed to debate more than two times on the same matter] –
Hon. Nduna was asked to approach the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you. Besides the tax free threshold of $1.2m which is noble, just and right, I even ask you Hon. Minister to up the game and raise the morale of the urbanites in particular, who are mostly civil servants, pensioners, artisanal miners and all other citizens, including war veterans, war collaborators, restrictees and detainees. How can you do it? You can align, in my view Section 205: 1A of the Urban Councils Act and Section 152 (1) (c) of the same Act, with Section 72 (7) (c) of the Constitution in order for that to empower you to give non-monetary benefits in order to complement the tax free threshold. This is my submission and it is thinking outside the box to get what we can and can what we get, to use what we have to get what we want. This is what the people of Chegutu West Constituency would submit. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to thank Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Biti, Hon. Mpariwa, Hon. Moyo, Hon. Markham, Hon. Hwende, Hon. Mliswa, Hon. Chinotimba and Hon. Nduna. I thank them for their contributions to this debate. Let me respond perhaps in three parts.
First of all, the Supplementary Budget of $851 billion that was appropriated by this Parliament and will be applied to various NDS1 for the activities is based on the threshold that I have proposed. If it was based on the threshold of moving from Z$300 000 to Z$ 600 000, I would have made an adjustment to say let us move on to Z$ 800 000, but already we would erode that Supplementary Budget.
Secondly, if we consider that month on month inflation over the next five months and this is our projection, it will be just below 10%. We think it will be about 8% initially and then taper down due to the measures that we put in place. In particular, you see price drops in the shops. This is already beginning to happen. Prices are coming down, so we expect that this inflation figure would not be higher than 10% on a month on month inflation. Given that, I really feel that an increase from Z$ 600 000 to Z$ 800 000 in terms of the threshold is appropriate. If we go higher than that, we are going to erode the tax base.
However, I listened to the Members and I will reach a compromise. So, I am going to request that we move it from the Z$ 800 000 that I have proposed to Z$ 900 000. I thank you. - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. HWENDE: Mr. Chairman, I would like to applaud the Minister for compromising and reviewing upwards from Z$ 600 000 to Z$ 900 000 tax free threshold. I am sure since yesterday he heard the requests and appeals from Hon. Members here. He heard how the salaries are affecting people out there. People are suffering and they are not even able to meet their basic requirements. That is why you hear Hon. Members standing up here for the review of the tax free threshold.
My appeal going forward is, if only all of us are dependent on salaries for survival - Hon. Members, Ministers and the Executive, this debate would not be so difficult. As we speak, this bench is empty here because the Hon. Ministers are travelling outside the country and get per diems. Some are attending useless conferences only to collect allowances. So we are not taking the issues of salaries seriously. We also want to hear from you on how the salaries and allowances you are giving to Hon. Members are pegged at. Thank you Hon. Chair.
HON. GONESE: Hon. Chair, I just wanted to mention one other dimension which the Hon. Minister may not have taken into account. I really want to thank the Minister for the further concession that he has made, however I want to point out almost in line with sentiments raised by Hon. Hwende but from a slightly different angle. We have got for example civil servants who get the cushioning allowance in United States dollars. However, we have got some workers in the private sector. A lot of employers are taking advantage of the fact that we are using the Zimbabwean dollar in conjunction with the United States dollar and some of these workers are actually getting only the RTGS without any other hard currency components.
There are also some other benefits, for example, because of the dire situation for civil servants, arrangements have been made for transportation, but you find that some workers just get the basic salary and nothing else. No other incentives and no other allowances. I think as from yesterday, ZUPCO has increased its fairs. While the Hon. Minister has mentioned that some prices may be stabilising as a result of the relative, and I use the word relative advisedly, relative stability in terms of the exchange rate, but the fact still remains that there are some workers who still have got to use that basic salary in terms of the bus fair and ZUPCO has increased its fares from $220 to $400 in respect of the first 20 kilometers and also for above 30 kilometers to over $500. In real terms, a lot of the transport operators actually want United States dollars, US$1 when you are coming from Mufakose, Ruwa and so on. So you find that worker who does not have any other benefit is going to suffer and that is the reason why, whilst I thank the Hon. Minister for increasing to 900 000, I would still implore the Hon. Minister to go that extra step and go to the ZWL100 000 which would be $1.2million per annum.
Other Hon. Members like Hon. Mpariwa had mentioned $1.5 million per annum and whilst I thank the Hon. Minister and I understand where he is coming from, the Hon. Minister should put himself in the shoes of the people who I am talking about who do not have any other allowance - no transport allowance, who just get a basic salary, who do not have a cushioning component in United States dollars in hard currency and so on. If the Hon. Minister considers their plight, he might be moved to adjust it further to ZWL100 000 which we have been asking for - if the Hon. Minister could really seriously consider that issue. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Chairman. The budget that we are debating right now is only meant for three to four months and then we go for the annual budget for 2023. So if you see the Minister moving it three times, it means we are also affecting him, so he moved to ZWL900 000.
I would like to applaud him because at least he has listened to us. He is not like a Minister who ignores just like what other Hon. Members referred to. So I would like to say when we get to the annual budget, the tax free threshold should be at ZWL1.8 or ZWL1.9m. So right now, I think we are going to wait to find out what it is going to be like. I would like to thank the Hon. Member, the secretary general for CCC who said that is enough. So I would like to support him that yes, it is enough. Let us keep it there. I thank you.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want also to join other Hon. Members and also to thank the Hon. Minster for increasing the tax free threshold to ZWL900 000. Thank you very much for that Hon. Minister. However, I would like to say that in future, we need to consider the poverty datum line. Right now for a family of six, we are talking of ZWL326 000 per month and if we multiply that by 12 that is ZWL3 900 000. So in future Hon. Minister, when we talk of a tax free threshold, you need to consider the poverty datum line. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Chairman, I had alluded to the point that people had not put figures and let me probably educate them and stand by my decision. The threshold was Z$300 000 per year. The current inflation is at 258%. That is why I am saying they were talking without figures and we want to talk about figures, 258%. Which means 258%, 100% is Z$600. Another 100% is Z$900 so I am pushing to Z$1 million in terms of the current inflation because people were talking without these figures and I like to be statistical. So you were just talking. I asked you inflation is real so inflation is 258%. I then propose that if you move it to Z$1 million, at least we would have dealt with the inflationary situation. Remember that before this move, they were suffering already and in fact, what we must be doing moving forward is to factor in inflation for the next three months up to November, but I do not want to go into that Chairman because I can even move that we move to Z$1 million now but again, inflation in the next three months will be so much then we factor in the percentage.
I have decided to hold my guns because I can also sit down and come up with a figure which will then mean that disposable income is disposable income. Let us not sit here and talk about disposable income which is not disposable income because you are tired of debating because you moved your budget, you won and then you forget the ordinary person. We do not work like that. This House must be fair in representing everybody. Your budget here was Z$4 billion, it moved to Z$15 billion. So let us be very careful with what people say about us. We must represent people’s interests not because tadya tokanganwa vanhu. Ours moved from Z$4 billion to Z$15 billion. Let it move from Z$300 000 to Z$1 million then we are fair, and then we are true representatives of the people. Thank you.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Why would the Minister not give ZWL$1.2 million? I am saying that because they have their own expenses and needs. Still ZWL$ is not enough but if we look as from the 1st of the month up to the 30th, family budget is not enough to take that person halfway. Let us increase so that the electorate will know that we represent them in truth. Their situation is just terrible and things are tough. Schools are just about to open. I am looking at a pensioner, a widow, an orphan and putting them there and let us look at their pension. Their pension is small and it cannot take them through the month. May the Minister increase to ZWL$1.2 million. I thank you.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Chair, I listened to the Hon. Members debating and I remained with one question. When we are talking about increasing this money, where is it coming from because what leads to the increment is the functioning of industries as well as taxes that are coming in? So I think what was earlier on alluded to that we are only remaining with three months to get to another budget in November so that we see whether the inflation is going down and so that by the time we come back in November, we can be able to come up with a figure...
HON. T. MLISWA: The Hon. Member of Shurugwi North, Hon. Nyathi is out of order, especially to ask where the money is coming from. If you followed the debate yesterday, we were talking about taxing mines and so forth. That is the job of the Minister of Finance to take tax from those who have money like the Chinese who have minerals. So if you say where is the money coming from when we debated and we said go and take money from those who have the money and so forth, we do not know whether you were here yesterday.
No wonder we proffered a solution that money will come from taxing rich companies and from ensuring that there is corporate social responsibility and we said everything. The money will come from our minerals and Chinese who are at Manhize were given that land for free and we should go and take 50% from that and that money goes to Government and it also goes to the Sovereign Wealth Fund. We should go there and take the money from our minerals. It has nothing to do with you but the Minister will do so by taxing those with money. We will go into the mining sector and that money in the mining sector will help agriculture again until we are happy. The resources must fund us. Thank you.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: I would like to applaud what Hon. Mliswa is saying. He has a good point but my point is, we cannot get rich overnight. There are processes and we cannot go to Manhize to get that money...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Nyathi, it is not the salary, this is a relief to the workers on the money that is already being paid in as salary. So it is the tax free threshold, a relief to the workers not salary. There is no money going out. It is not a matter of the Minister going out to look for the money. If you are getting a salary of USD1000 or ZW$1000, the taxable amount and that is the money that is being talked about so that it goes up. It is not the salary increase.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: I agree with you Hon. Chairman that we are talking of tax free threshold. So my point is where we can get that money because we cannot get it overnight. It follows a process. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Chairman. I thank the Hon. Members for their passionate plea for me to consider increasing the threshold. I have done that but we will lose revenue Mr. Chairman. It is not clear where the revenue will come from. It is certain that in November we will consider an adjustment that will click in on the 1st January, 2023. This has been arrived at scientifically. I am encouraged by Hon. Mliswa’s use of figures where basically he is saying inflation is at 250%.
Therefore, he expects a threshold increase beyond ZWL$900 000 or a million but our expectation that inflation year on year is actually coming down as led by the month-on month-inflation which is already coming down. So that is what you will discover in the next couple of months that that inflation is coming down. I have worked it out as I explained earlier that if we target about 10% month-on month-inflation, on average going forward into December for the next five months, that will take us to 50% increase and that is the increase I did when I moved from ZWL$600 000 to ZWL$900 00. That is how I got the ZWL$900 000. So I think let us leave it at ZWL$900 000 for now and come November, we will reconsider and that is what I persuade Members of Parliament to do. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am glad that the Minister listened to the inflation matrics where he had calculated the monthly inflation coming down. You would appreciate again Chair that if there is a law, it cannot work in anticipation. The existing law is what is working. From a question of fact, I would like to differ with you that I agree and it is very good for us and the people because they have lost a lot in terms of inflation. Inflation is coming down and it certainly gives them that hope and they are able to recover where they must recover. You do not really lose nothing and that is the reason why I am appealing to you; ZWL1 000 000 would certainly be something. You have moved twice and the third move is the last move. The Z$1 000 000 would be the third move and it is the last move. The game is over. I am now appealing to you to make that third move and it is the final move but I am happy with what you have said and waiting for the good news that you have said. I have no doubt that it will come through. That will be my appeal to you for the people. That third move!
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I am sympathetic to the plight of our hard working employees in the civil service and also private sector. I understand where the Hon. Member is coming from. I want to say that we always work on projections even if it is the budget that we pass at the beginning of the year, it is always a projection. Projections are normal. That is how we work. It is not surprising that I am working on projected month-on-month inflation to come down in the next few months towards the year end.
Beyond this point, we are going to lose revenue. We will fail to meet our target in terms of Supplementary Budget and I do not think we will look good frankly when that happens. We will fail to fund programmes. Members of Parliament pushed me very hard to increase the Parliament budget to ZWL15 billion. I was actually convinced that this money would be put to good use and therefore I must support them. If we are now eroding the very tax base that we seek to protect, how are we going to support the ZWL15 billion to support their work in the constituencies? Let us end at ZWL 900 000 for now and we will get to November, again we will work together closely to increase the threshold.
HON. T. MLISWA: Minister, the third move, let us meet halfway ZWL 950 000 and that is it. It is done.
The Minister of Finance and Economic Development having consulted with Hon. T. Mliswa
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I have consulted with the Hon. Member and we have agreed that we end at ZWL 900 000 for now.
Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move the amendment standing in my name that:
Amendment to Schedule to Chapter I of Cap 23:04
The Schedule (Credits and Rates of Income Tax) to Chapter 1 of the Finance Act [Chapter 23:04] is amended with effect from 1 August in the year of assessment beginning on 1 January 2022, in Part II by the deletion of the items relating to the level of taxable income earned in Zimbabwe dollars from employment and the substitution of the following
SECTION |
LEVEL OF TAXABLE INCOME |
SPECIFIED % |
14 (2) (a) (i) |
Up to $250 000 |
0 |
14 (2) (a) (ii) |
$250 000 to $600 000 |
20 |
14 (2) (a)( iii) |
$600 001 to $1 200 000 |
25 |
14 (2) (a) (iv) |
$1200 001 to $2 400 000 |
30 |
14 (2) (a) (v) |
$2 400 001 to $5 000 000 |
35 |
14 (2) (a) (vi) |
$5 000 001 and more |
40 |
HON. MUSHORIWA: Given the concession by the Hon. Minster on Clause 2, it therefore follows that the schedule needs to be revised so that it factors in the ZWL 900 000 that he has agreed to. The major challenges relate to the other figures and I wanted to find out from the Hon Minister before we debate further, that after you have factored the ZWL 900 000, how does your schedule now look like so that we will be in a position to come in and see whether the figures that you have come up with will make sense at the end of the day?
HON. BITI: This is a very serious provision and it ranks at par with the provision which we were debating a few minutes ago, Clause 2. This is now the tax band and I need to submit that tax bands that are here are not realistic in our economy. They are rising out of, and causing the massive over taxation of our people. I hope the Minister can adjust dramatically and fundamentally. If you look at the figures, for any person earning ZWL 5 000 000, the taxation is 40% but if you convert ZWL 5 000 000 into US dollars by using whatever rate, and you reduce that to a monthly salary – ZWL 5 000 000 will give a salary of US$462.
The Hon. Minister is suggesting that a person who earns US$462 in Zimbabwe must be taxed 40%. In other countries, this is the minimum tax threshold. My brother the Minister has worked for international organisations. He was the vice president of the African Development Bank. He has worked in Switzerland; he knows that 462 USD is nothing - that is what teachers used to get. Teachers used to earn 500 USD. So, he is suggesting that the teacher earning 500 USD must be taxed 40%.
The 40% tax rate is for billionaires in USD terms. If you tax the next figure of ZWL2, 4 million to ZWL 5 million, that is USD224 per month. If you tax a major figure of ZWL1, 2 million to ZWL2,4, that is equivalent to USD111 per month. How do you tax someone USD111 per month, 30%, he is earning peanuts and then you take 30% of his peanuts?
A person who is earning in the bracket of ZWL1, 2 million is USD55, a person of ZWL250 000 to ZWL600 000 is earning USD22 in real terms and I have used USD because that is the real salary because we are operating in a dollarised environment. The Minister has said the regime of multiple currencies will operate until 2025.
So, I suggest Hon. Chair that the Minister allows his officials who are sitting at the back there to re-work their figures in line with the ZWL900 000 threshold. We park Clause 3 at the end of the debate so that the adjustments are made in light of the ZWL900 000 adjustment, in light of the fact that these figures as they stand are unrealistic. How do you tax someone who earns USD 462, 40%? Is he a Bill Gates? Is he a Kuda Tagwirei or is he a Simon Rudland? It is not right.
So, I submit that we postpone it to the end then the list of people who are there at the back, the Principle Director of Taxation and the esteemed Minister of Finance Prof. M. Ncube and my brother Hon. Chiduwa revisit and re-work the figures, we park it to the end. I thank you.
Clause 3 defferred.
On Clause 4:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Minister, the proposal of charging 5 cents for each withdrawal of USD1000 is not right. I just want to put it into context in this way; 5 cents per USD1000 equates to 0, 5%. So we are saying that we are charging 0, 5% for every withdrawal which is less than USD 1000.
In addition Hon. Minister you are also aware; I have just done the calculations in terms of the money that the bank charges and other service fees, it will mean that for a person to withdraw money below USD 1000 from the ATM, a person will end up getting charged 1,5% of the amount.
Then there is something that I also do not understand on C, you are charging 0, 5% on withdrawals of less than USD 1000 then you then jump from 0, 5% and you start to charge 2% on those that are withdrawing more than a USD 1000 dollars from the ATM. I think that movement does not make sense to me because one would think that if they are going to move from 0, 5%, surely you should move to maybe 1% rather than to jump from 0, 5% to 2%, it does not read well.
Therefore, Hon. Chair, I would request the Hon. Minister to re-look into this and adjust these figures.
HON. GONESE: I just want to associate myself with the remarks made by our Hon. Mushoriwa. I was also looking at the figures and before debating the actual specific figures, I just want to mention that Zimbabweans are generally heavily taxed and you are penalised for everything when you want to do RTGS transfer.
In respect of what you are talking about, the withdrawals, I believe that 2% is on the high side. If we are dealing with the principle that the figure is starting at 0, 5%, I submit that the maximum should just be the 1% so that in terms of the provision in C, the figure of 2% there is replaced by 1%.
I believe that a lot of the people in this country are going to benefit from that reduction because you find that everywhere, the point made in respect of our Clause 3, we will still come to it and debate but I believe that at each and every stage, we must have these downwards adjustments in order to put more money into the pockets of the citizens of Zimbabwe who have already been suffering for quite a long time. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Hon. Chair, I associate myself with the remarks by Hon. Mushoriwa and Hon. Innocent Gonese of Mutare Central that we need to revisit these amounts. Let us lower them Hon. Minister.
The problem and that is why I said to you a few minutes ago that I wish you lived in Tsholotsho because you would then understand the political economy of the average Zimbabwean. You wake up and you are taxed every second and if you run an account, there is no point in running an account because you are taxed. So, please, make the life of Zimbabweans easier by ameliorating their conditions, by mitigating their conditions, by removing some of these unnecessary taxes.
However, I want to speak as a professional Hon. Chair, I am a lawyer, I run a trust account. Your clients put their monies in a trust account. I had one situation where I was acting for a children’s trust. So, we put their money in USD trust account in one of the country’s biggest bank. When we took the money now, it was hit by the 2% and because it was a lot of money, the net effect of the withdrawal was USD1200. How then do you say to a children’s trust that you have lost USD1200 to Hon. Prof. Ncube who stays in Umwinsidale – it does not make sense.
So, at least exempt trust accounts and burial societies but the bottom line is that the 2% on USD is such a punitive amount and it is double taxation because the amount that have been deposited has been earned. Hon. Chair, I hope the Minister is listening to me. On my business account and I am speaking from my own experience as a lawyer; my Zimbabwean dollar account because of these taxes, I had to pay my own personal money because I could not say to clients your money has been deducted. I paid RTGs$200 000 of my own money but what does it do now - it discourages savings and banking.
Mr. Speaker, we are the only country in the world where if you deposit money it reduces. The bank has to phone and tell you that you are now in negative balance. There are no interest rates. John Panonetsa has increased rates on lending to 200% but there are no interest rates on savings. The truth of the matter is that there is no country in the world that will develop without a banking sector and savings. China right now is the second largest economy in the world because of savings that are 50% of GDP.
My learned friend Hon. Chiduwa is an economist. He should be able to know that a developing country like Zimbabwe needs at least savings which are 25% of GDP. We have nothing, zero. When I grew up, there used to be PUPS which is Paid up Permanent Shares. Somewhere in this Bill we are going to give tax free status to POSB because POSB was there to save money. I opened a bank account when I was in Form Three at Goromonzi which had money until things started deteriorating in 2004/5.
Mr. Speaker, the 2% and 1% is excessive, and all this is doing is to encourage a culture of dis-saving in Zimbabwe. Look at the result of banks. They are making super profits, all of them without exception; even banks that we know are so badly run, but I will not mention their names. All their profits are from non-interest income. The business of the bank is to make money from lending but they are not making money from money but from these charges. So bank managers are driving posh cars. Go to Sam Levy Village, they own three or four houses because they get free bank loans but they are not making money from their core business. They are making money from these parasitic activities. We have to press the reset button which starts with a relook at these extortive measures. I thank you very much and I hope the Minister is listening.
HON. NDUNA: If it pleases the Hon. Minister, it would be prudent for us to now put a cap or an end to the Transitional Stabilisation Programme which was supported by the 2%. It is my thinking that the running and the need for the 2% has come to an end. If as I have been guided by him, if that still exists, the 2%, it would not be right to introduce another one. It is my thinking that 2% or the 1 or 1,5% that needs to be introduced should come to a screeching halt. It is my thinking in that Hon. Minister, I come from a place where the artisanal miners, I am trying by all means to get them to be banked.
To that end, I have saved CBZ bank of Chegutu from closure because I have promised them that we will get more than 500 000 artisanal miners in my constituency to be banked even USD$100 per month. Having said that, the introduction of the 2% tax might be a dis-incentive for those that will want to be banked or those that want to be drawn into the banking sector. Accounts currently in the banks are being opened to be closed.
I have Mr. Nhando at CBZ bank in Chegutu who happens to be the manager. He calls my cooperatives and I have 10 of them that take care of youth funds in my constituency, for more than 10 000 youths. He calls the principals or signatories to those accounts to come and deposit more money because the initial deposits would have been eroded without any use or transfer to any other bank or activity, but principally due to taxation by the bank in terms of its functions. That cannot be forgiven and is unforgiveable. It is my thinking that the introduction of that tax will be both luxurious and will continue to haemorrhage the meagre funds we are currently getting, in particular the informal sector. The informal sector definitely cannot be incentivised by the introduction of these taxes.
Therefore, I make a clarion call for the Hon. Minister to see it in his heart that there will not be this introduction of this tax because it will further damage the relationship that I had created with the artisanal miners and who by the way are the largest contributors to the gold vault annually contributing more than 30 tonnes annually. We wanted as I stand here to get them to be banked with the excess funds that they have but with the introduction of this dis-incentive there might be USD flight. They will not be any trust relating to them getting their money to the bank until that relationship is harmonised Minister. If it pleases you, as it relates to this one especially adherence, bringing the money for the artisanal miners into the banking system, let your heart be on the right side. Thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to add a few points to this debate. If you look at what is happening right now, the people have stashed the little money that they have in their pillows in their homesteads because they are not sure what will happen in the future. My thinking is that the Minister should make it easier for people and give them assurance that if they put their money in the bank it will be safe as alluded to by Hon. Biti. People must have confidence that if they keep their money in the bank, it will not be eroded like what we have witnessed. So, all those informal traders and informal transporters will only take their money to the bank if it gains interest. People can only take their money to the bank if they are assured that it will gain interest instead of being eroded. So, like what the Minister dealt with when we were talking about the ZWL900 000, I am sure it will compromise or ensure that we put in place rules that ensure that the banking public get confident to use the bank. Our children in the diaspora should also feel confident to transact through the banks because this looks like a legal debt collection scheme. People will lose jobs in the banks because people will end up using their pillows to keep money. So, I am appealing to the Minister to rectify this so that people can confidently use the bank, including people in the rural areas like Chiendambuya.
(v)HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Chairman for the opportunity to air my views on this budget debate. I think my colleagues have done extremely well so far in articulating the position of Members of Parliament with regards to the budget. I will not take much time with my contribution save to say it is important for us all to understand that the economic model that Hon. Ncube and the Government use is of an imperialist and neocolonial nature. It seeks to make the poor poorer. It has to be an economy in which people are discouraged from saving because we all understand the impact of not having savings. What it means is that at the end of the day, as alluded to by Hon. Biti, the main business for banks is lending out money but where do they get that money to lend when people are not saving? They do not get that money and because of that, we are making the poor worker who is forced by the situation to remain poor because they are forced to receive their salaries through the banks. What that means is that basically we have the poorly salaried workers who are the only ones who are forced not only by law but also by the operations from their employer that they should get their salaries through the bank. I think it is important that we need to revise that and have a model that allows the poorer to also get some kind of advantage. Therefore, it is uncalled for to continuously tax indirectly those people that are putting their money in the banks. I totally agree that it needs to be revised. We need to come up with a model that promotes savings. That way, it will make it easier for the poor workers to also have an opportunity to enjoy their meager salaries without these punitive taxes that are being introduced by the Minister. So, it is my submission that the Hon. Minister needs to revise his model so that we have a model that promotes savings and at the same time ameliorates and mitigates the situation of our poor workers and our poor pensioners. The pensioners and the workers are the majority who are currently banking in this country and therefore, we cannot perpetuate their fall by putting up policies that continue to affect the value for their money. I thank you Hon. Chair.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Chairman for affording me the opportunity to add my voice to this debate with regards to the two percent. This is driving people away from banking their money. There is a lot of US dollars in homes and companies but because of this two percent, especially on the US dollars, it is difficult to get it in this country and it is in high demand. Every person is looking for US dollars. I concur with other Hon. Members that banks should not profiteer but should look for money through better ways and mobilise people to bank money. So how can they do that when they erode people’s savings? That means you cannot get it. I do not know what the issue is between Government and banks, whether the bank gets one percent and Government gets another one percent. If that is the case, it should come down regardless of the situation. They should share maybe one percent half-half. Banks should earn money properly not in an unscrupulous way. I concur with Hon. Members to do away with the two percent. Hon. Minister, I went with an artisanal miner to Agribank to open an account because he had been paid US$50 000 cash by Fidelity. He was instructed to go and get that money from the bank but they do not have bank accounts but just go into the bank to get their money. I asked him why he withdrew such large sums of money instead of keeping it in the bank and he said he fears the money will be eroded, might wake up and not be able to access it or it will be RTGs. He might have been lying but Hon. Minister, let us urge our banks to use money wisely and to give people interest for the deposited US dollars and not deduct from the account. As was alluded to earlier pertaining to POSB Savings Bank, I opened my POSB Savings Account in 1975 before I joined the liberation struggle. My money used to increase due to interests that were being added, but that was banned. Now nobody wants to keep their money in the bank because there is no more interest that used to work as an incentive. Every month, money would earn interest and now that has also ended, even the RTGS component. People are being forced to receive their salaries through the banks but if you see how it is used; banks are taking a lot of money through bank charges.
Even the tax free threshold that we were talking about here, the moment that money goes to the bank, and the tax that Government is talking about is better. We now have two ministries, that is, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the bank ministries because banks are now operating as ministries as well. So where are we going? We are saying, what the banks are charging is too much. I propose that tax be scrapped all together, maybe that may not be possible but at least let it be at least just one percent (1%). I thank you.
(v)HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for allowing me to contribute on these charges. Hon. Chair, when I put my money in the bank, the first thing that I expect is to get interest. The banks in Zimbabwe are a different story all together. We must never ever punish anyone who brings money to the bank. You must remember that the money has already been taxed; people have paid Pay As You Earn when they get that money. In the process of consumption, I still go and pay VAT on that money again. So there is this treble taxation that the Hon. Minister must see.
We must never play around by just charging taxes for foreign currency. Foreign currency is new money in the economy that has come in and more so, when the foreign currency comes in; it is also taxed by Government. There is this issue of 60-40 so we must have a conference and he strategises for new ways of developing our country. Our banks have let down this nation. If banks are not lending money to farmers, then there is no economic activity in the farming sector. If banks are not lending money to industry, then there is no economic activity in those industries. They are just making money out of bank charges. Bank charges must now be controlled; we have to control the bank charges because they charge what they want. They just wake up and start charging whatever they want. This issue of continuous charges left, right and center will destroy our industries.
The ultimate objective is you will see a situation where nobody keeps money in the bank. It is unfortunate that all these banks are there and these are international banks. What they do in Zimbabwe, they do not do in South Africa or in Zambia. Why is it that there is this club of banks that are there to destroy industry and the farming sector? The Hon. Minister must set regulations that bank so and so, 30% of your clientele must go to agriculture and so much must go towards reviving the industries. So we really need to revisit banking policies.
What we are doing also is against the Banking Act. The Banking Act allows people to bring in money for safe keeping; it does not allow people to bring in money for taxation. We are actually violating the Banking Act because I bring money for safe keeping and not for taxation. This is my humble submission. I thank you.
*HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. Financial issues are a bit technical but they affect us on daily basis. My humble request to you Hon. Chairman, with the leave of the House, so that we move on the same page. I order for us to move on the same wave length Hon. Chairman. I believe that most of the Hon. Members are on Virtual. We need to give appropriate feedback to our constituents especially on this clause.
I hereby humbly request you Hon. Chairman that since civil servants are earning USD175.00 allowance, can we possibly get the total taxation before we pass this clause? What is the total taxation? After passing this clause, how much will it be so that we simplify this issue? We may over simplify this issue so that it may look like it is a small amount of money like five cents but we all need to understand how much it is. May the Ministry’s staff workout what the actual figure is? If you want to withdraw USD175.00, how much remains so that we also understand the new implications and how much the money is before passing this clause? The problem is that we have been passing laws that we may not fully understand but let us try to be on the same wave length with our constituents so that we will not be asked, in the banks, how we passed such a law? So that it will be referred as being Prof. Mthuli Ncube and Hon. Biti’s law. We need to understand the tax implications and calculations before the end of the day so that we know how much we are talking about. I thank you.
*HON. C. MOYO: Hon. Chairman, I wish to add my voice on Clause 4, with particular focus on automated tax on withdrawals exceeding USD1000.00. Hon. Chair, the rate at which robberies are happening in Zimbabwe is very high. Why? Because the majority of people are no longer banking their money. Instead, they put their money under the base and the robbers would be targeting those people who have those monies. I wish the Hon. Minister could put his feet into the shoes of the ordinary person so that banking becomes business. These days if you put USD5 thousand or even USD10 thousand in a bank, there is no interest. So I think that has negatively affected the banking sector and people have lost confidence in trying to ensure that their money is banked with whatever bank that is of your choice. It is my request to the Hon. Minister that instead of deducting 2% for amounts exceeding $1 thousand, it my clarion call that the percentage may be reduced to 1% percent. Thank you.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman for giving me this opportunity to add my line of thinking regarding this issue. Mr. Chairman, when I was sitting there hearing what other Hon. Members were debating, I had a lot of questions in my mind to say is our Minister not hearing that we need so many people to bank. At the same time again, I was asking myself a question to say, what motivated our Minister to come with such an amendment that might be interpreted otherwise by an ordinary person. I then interrogated further to say the first two subsections of that proposal talk about five cents if you are withdrawing a thousand and below both in RTGS and USD and all of a sudden, the moment you want to take a thousand bucks, it is 2% - 5 cents to 2%. As I was pondering about this Mr. Chairman, I realised that maybe the Minister needs to take advantage of the submissions from the Members to give us a bit of a clue of what exactly he is trying to cure with this provision.
My simple understanding is that the lesser the taxes, the lesser the bank charges, the more people they will have appetite to invest. In the process, the Government will benefit from capital gains or withholding taxes but in this case we are working otherwise. So I want the Minister to enlighten us on the rationale. What is happening? What is he trying to cure so that at least at the end of the day as we are making these submissions, we have a little bit of understanding of where he is coming from, otherwise we all want to put our money in the bank but the moment we have this kind of pieces of legislation, automatically it might be misinterpreted otherwise to mean like, the Minister does not like people to bank their money. In the process, people end up keeping money in their pillows and everywhere and robbers will end up pouncing on the people. My submission Chair is that the moment we look at that differentiation of five cents to 2%, I think we need clarity so that at the end of the day, what exactly do we want to do because we have the IMTT tax already. The moment you do transactions with the bank we are already deducted the 2% but here again there is another 2% that is needed if you withdraw cash. Saka totizira kupi? Toenda here kuma transfers, toenda here kunowithdrawer cash then tosangana ne 2%? I would love the Minister in his response to clarify that to us to say where are we coming from and where are we going with this particular clause so that the nation will come to know why we are doing this. In other jurisdictions, people are encouraged to use paper money as a way of avoiding a lot of bank charges and a lot of taxes but here I am failing to understand Chair, but I think the Minister out of his wisdom is going to give us a bit of clarification so that we get out of this clause and out of this House with a clear mind of what we are trying to do. Thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Chair. I would want to say the step that the Minister is taking will move all the economy to informal sector. Who will bank money? That tax they are proposing is just too much. They are destroying the banking sector, except that you want to tax the civil servants who earn their salaries through banks. Otherwise the other people do not earn their money through banks. I am representing 32 thousand people at home and I should debate so that they do not accuse me of passing laws without their consent. My point of view as an uneducated person, I do not know how educated people see it, this step taken is even worse because there will not be banks anymore. If you go to Rushinga, there are no more banks because there are no more clients. Banks are now found in Bindura. Pensioners cannot even get their money because they can only get it in Bindura. This proposal chases away banks from Bindura to Harare. What I am saying is the truth and you will realise it later that you are only destroying the banking sector. Those people you want to tax 2%, how much are they are earning? They are already suffering and you want to add salt to injury. What I am saying is, if you were to do that, representing the people of Rushinga, I object to this. I thank you.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Chair. Most of what I wanted to say has been said but I just want to buttress a couple of points. The first thing is, there is no way taxes from Clause 2 to Clause 6 can be considered as pro-poor. My biggest concern is that the rich or the companies will be over taxed. Our problem is that we no longer use the physical money in the country because what is happening is everyone is paying into bank accounts. Basically it is being covered but people are getting taxed unnecessarily. When they withdraw the money, whether transfer they get taxed. Even when doing VAT, they are taxed, so the issue is this – what I would like the Minister to do is to look at his proposals for a poor person and a rich person and look at the level of taxes. He will see what the problem is.
If he looks at the money being taxed, even on Parliamentarians, he will get surprised. I understand where the Minister is coming from? He is trying to get money from wherever he can. I know we have mobile platforms and banks with huge sums of deposits in local and forex who are not paying any interest. The issue is - how can a company like Ecocash pay no interest? It must be the one with the biggest amount of electronic money sitting in this country but there is no tax. They have the core of getting taxed.
Finally, I have a major problem when it comes to people like pensioners, civil servants, youth and women trying to withdraw cash, I think this is the major issue. When the youth and women, particularly when they are involved in doing business, they are not going to store their money in the bank. So the bottom line is, instead of trying to formalise the sector, what we are doing is informalising it. Everyone is kind of running away from banking. I thank you.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I think that when people are banking, the idea behind it is that they must get interest. Secondly, I know that in order for a country to run effectively and efficiently and for a country to be able to grow industries, the banking sector must be flourishing. This means that if our banks have got excess money because of savings, it then means that people have got the propensity to go to the bank and withdraw money and borrow money at an interest. The borrowed money on interest is the money that the banker also gets a certain percentage of his banking savings.
Now, in terms of what we are discussing, it is actually discouraging a person to go and bank. In my own opinion, I was thinking that the Minister would come with a Bill which says, if somebody banks money or tries to bank money which is less than USD 175 - which generally I also want to appeal to the Minister, although it is not the right platform, a general hand earns USD175; the manager also you give him USD 175, a legislator, you give him USD 175, it is not motivating by nature because everyone is earning the same amount as if they are doing the same type of work.
Anyway, let me go back to our discussion in play. I am saying, I was thinking that the Minister would say if one banks USD 175, he should get an interest of say 0.5%. If you bank your money which is above USD 1 000.00, you will get an interest of 2%, calculated over the number of months you keep your money in the bank so that you are also incentivised to bank the money that is staying outside there. Everyone has got USD in his/her home. If you get all that money into the bank, because the bankers are now getting interest on their deposits, it means that our industries can now go and lend money at a soft loan, which is not expensive and the banks get a lot of interest. That interest, I also get my portion.
I am failing to understand, like what Hon. Raidza said that what is that that has motivated the Minister to say we need 2% if one withdraws money. May be we are debating but we do not understand exactly the motivating factor. So, may be if he makes it clear to us because to us when you bank money, you are saying let the industry, let the economy grow but as Zimbabwe, no one is keen to go and bank.
Hon. Nduna gave a very important point. You know Shurugwi had several banks and I am a marketer for my bank because I only have one bank in Shurugwi, which is ZB Bank. I make sure that all the makorokozas, all the farmers and everybody is banking at ZB Bank because we do not want that bank to close or to go to Gweru so that when one wants to do business transactions, he has to go to Gweru instead of Shurugwi. If then those people are discouraged from banking, it means those banks are closing and eventually we will remain without a banking sector in the country.
So, let us come up with incentives. Let us come up with ideas of how we can grow our banking sector; how we can motivate our people to bank money and how they can grow. Banking is a business, we must not do the business for them but they must create business so that in their creation of business, we are motivated to bank our money. So, I submit.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just want to add a few points to the debate. What I want the Minister to consider answering is - how is it possible that all our banks, their bank charges are higher than the interest? This means the moment you deposit your money, you know that from that particular day, your money is losing value. Even if the rates are stable but this is what happens in Zimbabwe, you lose money. How is it possible that the bank charges are higher than the interest that one must earn? Under those circumstances, will it be possible for any right thinking person to go to a bank where he/she knows that the moment I deposit my money, I start losing it?
Secondly, even when you deposit your money and you want to withdraw it, again there are limits. Even RTGs, you can only withdraw, ZWL5 000 a week, but what is that you do with 5 000 RTGs? Imagine queuing almost the whole day to get 5 000 RTGs? In real terms if we are to compare it with the USD, it is $US5. This has been going on, for a very long time and Members have raised this over and over again. I would want the Minister to just answer - how does he feel, does he ever go and withdraw ZWL5 000 himself? I think sometimes, Mr. Speaker, we expect miracles. We expect people to do business with banks when it is virtually impossible because there is no way you can do business. There is no way we can maintain the banks. I wonder how it is possible that we still have got banks in Zimbabwe under those circumstances.
So if the Minister answers how he is going to solve that problem because we cannot borrow for production purposes because we can only borrow from money that is deposited by an individual or an organisation that would then want to use the money later. This is also what determines the rate, not the actual 200% rate that we have imposed. It is just an imposition on something that is not there. How many people have got their monies under their pillows, United States dollars? I would not want to move around with US$1000. I would want to deposit it, but there is no security in depositing my money in the banks. There is no assurance that I will get my money when I want it from the bank. I cannot make a deal on the assumption that I am going to use the bank to settle because you are not even sure. If the Minister could consider in his policies to make sure that the policies that he puts in place answer to the problems that we face on a daily basis. Thank you.
HON. MUSAKWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would like to add my voice to the issue of bank charges, especially on transfer of funds. Mr. Chairman, it has become a big discouragement to both individuals and corporates to bank money. Imagine you are charged to withdraw cash but worse, you are charged more to transfer money from nostro to nostro which I thought you should encourage people to transfer money as opposed to withdrawing cash.
So now you are penalised for transferring and you are charged 4%. If a corporate transfers US$1 million today, they are charged US$40 000. Already, they have become uncompetitive. That is inflationary. If you charge that US$40 000, they will have to charge the customer. Already if they were bidding with another company or regional company, they have already lost because they have got 4% which maybe was supposed to be their profit but it has become a cost. I think we must encourage people to transact. At least if you are to encourage people not to withdraw cash, you must encourage them to transact into an account, but you are hit worse when you transfer into an account. It is very prohibitive.
Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister must relook at these issues and make sure that we encourage banking. There is a lot of money in people’s houses, bedrooms and gardens. There is one joke Minister which someone told me. They said one gentleman was told that the bank had gone on fire then he continued playing poker. The next thing he was told that I saw somebody digging in your garden then he dropped everything and started running to his home because his whole bank is in the garden. I so submit Mr. Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions on this Clause 4. Let me start with the Hon. Mushoriwa. Of course the contributions were very similar. There were slight variations here and there. Prudent contributions, but largely focusing on the jump to 2% penalty, basically for withdrawing more than US$1 000 in cash.
Hon. Mushoriwa basically highlights that we have this big jump to 2%. Why is it so? The reason why we are introducing this cash withdrawal tax basically is to deal with speculation. It is not a revenue raising measure, it is to deal with speculation. What we found out in terms of our research is that individuals were going to the bank to withdraw large amounts of cash in United States dollars so they could trade in the parallel market. If you recall, this is a measure we announced when we mentioned that we needed to deal with the parallel market and I think it is fair to say this measure has contributed to the stability that we see in the market in addition to the sharp increase in interest rates to 200% in terms of the policy rate. So this is an anti speculation measure, it is not a revenue raising measure.
I now turn to Hon. Gonese. He was making a similar point. In his contribution he actually proposed that maybe we should lower it to 1%, that 2% is high. I am listening but we feel that we still need this measure to discourage speculation in the parallel market. I now turn to Hon. Biti who gave us a vivid case. When he was managing some trust funds, he found that he had to incur some charges in the withdrawal of those funds, but I want to be clear. Was this on the back of IMTT or rather it was a cash withdrawal tax?
HON. BITI: It was a cash withdrawal.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: With IMTT, you have no charges there at all. Rather it was a cash withdrawal. Why did you need so much cash?
HON. BITI: It was client’s money for a children’s home.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: And they wanted it in cash, this children’s home? Very interesting that is all I would say, but we still need a tax to discourage speculation, Mr. Chairman.
I now turn to Hon. Nduna. He made very similar points passionately about this 2% tax on cash withdrawals that it is discouraging banking. The same was expressed by Hon. Mpariwa and Hon. Sibanda as well. Hon. Chinotimba made a similar point that we need to promote banking. If I may digress there, but I am not digressing, this was raised by Hon. Members. Some of them expressed an opinion about the low deposit rates in the banking sector or none existence of deposit interest rates in the banking sector. Banks are in violation if they are not paying any interest at all. There is a law that I put in place to say banks must pay a deposit interest and this interest rate is linked to the 90-day Treasury Bill rate. The formula is very clear in terms of how they should be calculating their deposit rates as linked to the 90-day Treasury Bill rate.
So if they are not paying this interest, they are in violation of the law. Depositors ought to receive interest so this issue should not even be arising, but it is arising. Then there is the issue of banking charges. So when we are talking of our charges of 2%, 5c and so forth, that is revenue. Banks have their own charges and we are not involved in that but I agree that the charges are also high.
We have not, as a Government, wanted to dictate on bank charges. It was our hope that competition would take care of it but clearly that is not the case, maybe going forward we need to consider regulating bank charges. We are not there yet. We have been using moral suasion. As of now we are not there yet.
Then Hon. Chikwinya in terms of calculating the actual revenue earned from withdrawing USD175 from civil servants on the entire State. I think these are unnecessary drudgery. What we are trying to do in this tax is just a simple anti-speculation measure - that is all. We are not even paying attention to the amount of revenue raised. Our concern is to deal with speculation, why are people, individuals wanting to withdraw all this cash and where are they taking the cash to? Is it the case that they are taking the cash to the parallel market? That is our concern and we were not trying to raise revenue here.
Hon. Moyo also made a similar comment that we need to promote banking and this measure may not be promoting banking and maybe we should even consider reducing this 2% penalty to 1%. In terms of motivation, what motivated us to introduce it, I have been clear about that and it is to deal with speculation in the parallel market.
Hon. Nyabani also raised a similar issue regarding discouraging banking and even forcing certain banks to move out of certain centres or areas in our country to other areas. Hon. Markham and Hon. Nyathi also made similar comments but Hon. Nyathi went further to talk about the interest rates on deposits. I have already spoken about that to say these ought to be paid and banks are in violation if they are not paying this interest.
He made an auxiliary point about why we are paying a USD175 to everybody and why not vary it according to rank. This was not meant to be a salary to that recognising rank. It was meant to be something that recognises the fact that what we all have is the same basic basket. You need tomatoes, piece of onion, some vegetables and certain kilogrammes of meat and so forth. There is a basic basket whether you are the Minister of Finance, Hon. Biti, the Chair, Hon. Mutomba, the ordinary worker out there, there is a basic basket that we all consume and that is what we meant to recognise. It is not meant to recognise rank at all. That is why it is an allowance and not a salary although we have no intention of withdrawing it anytime soon. It is an inflation protector.
Hon. Madzimure focused mainly on the high bank charges, cash withdrawal limit and so forth. Of course, this is a different aspect around banking – what we are focusing on in terms of Clause 4 is cash withdrawal charges paid to Government. I agree that bank charges are high and they ought to come down. Cash limits were also introduced as a way of dealing with speculation in the parallel market and we continue to review these cash limits. I am sure the Central Bank will be reviewing sometime in the future these cash limits upwards and we have been doing that.
Hon. Musakwa again talked about bank charges being too high. This is money going to banks and that is not what we are debating. We do not go into that as yet but in future we should detect what bank charges should look like and what should be their profile and we should allow the banks to do in terms of charging our citizens for the money they keep in the banks only to promote banking. So, colleagues this clause is about dealing with speculation and not about raising revenue. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. I am really grateful for the explanation given by the Hon. Minister. In light of the explanation by the Hon. Minister that this is not intended to be a way of raising revenue, it buttresses the points which we were making. I will illustrate how. The first point which I would like the Hon. Minister to appreciate is that all these issues are interlinked. The issue of interest rates was raised in this august House a long time ago, but the reality on the ground – those of us who operate bank accounts, maybe it is only that the Hon. Minister might not be operating a bank account and that is why he may not be aware that nothing has changed since we have been talking about this long ago.
It has been raised during question time and during clarifications on ministerial statements which had been presented in this august House. That issue has been raised time and again but on the ground nothing has changed. So for those of us who have been operating accounts, if any money hits your account and you do not withdraw it, at the end of the month, you will find that it is only the charges which will be reflecting and there is no interest whatsoever. I am appreciating and I am cognisant of the fact that we are debating an issue relating to withdrawal and I will illustrate the point further.
At the moment, Zimbabweans are reluctant to bank or to put money in the bank and this punitive measure is going to penalise both the guilty and the innocent and this is a point which I want the Hon. Minister to appreciate. When I talk of the innocent, I will give an example that in my other life I practice law. People who are entering into agreements of sale for immovable properties do not want their money to be put into the bank.
In the past, yes but when you are dealing with conveyancing transactions, lawyers have to accede to the wishes of the parties. The sellers do not want money to put in the account as a result of which the agreement of sale is done, the papers are signed, the interview with ZIMRA is organised quickly and the money will exchange hands once all the paperwork has been done.
It is no longer a question of the seller getting their money after the registration of the transfer simply because those sellers do not want their money to go into the account because they are aware of the charges when they want to move the money. Now it is going to get worse because if they were reluctant before the introduction of this cash withdrawal, punitive measures are going to worsen the situation because there are those people who may not be operating active accounts who are disposing of their immovable property and it is a one off transaction.
They are going to have money deposited into their account but because of this other tax of 2% for the figures above 1000, it then means that it is going to disincentify them. They no longer will be comfortable with having money deposited into their accounts. It will actually worsen the situation. I was going to say to the Hon. Minister, yes it is meant to deal with the speculators as he says but I do not believe that most of these dealers operate bank accounts. I think they operate on a cash basis and that is my thinking. Unfortunately, I am not fundi in that particular area of people who do these transactions.
My assumption would be that a lot of these people move around with cash in their cars. I do not think they are in the business of banking money and withdrawing it. So, I do not appreciate how that is going to deal with the speculators. If my assumption is correct, I am going to respectfully suggest to the Hon. Minister that this 2% is going to hit more of the innocent people, more of the persons who get money deposited into their accounts and not the dealers. The dealers do not bank money and I believe the money which is in the accounts is the ZWL because I think that those people who deal in foreign currency transactions, the money which are on their accounts are mostly the ZWL and not the USD.
The USD is moving around from briefcase to motor vehicle and so on and so forth. The Hon. Minister at the beginning of his response said he was listening and if he was listening, I am perplexed as to why he has not suggested a reduction in the figure because if he was listening as he said at the outset, I would have assumed that at least he was going to deal with the reduction of the figure of 2%. All the Hon. Members who have spoken suggested that 1% was more appropriate but listening to the Minister, I actually believe that it is not even the 1% lest we just stick to the 0.5% because he is saying it is not a revenue enhancing measure which the Ministry of Finance is trying to utilize for the purpose of enhancing their revenue, then it means at the end of the day that whilst the Hon. Minister is trying to ascertain exactly what is the effect of this, probably he must consider the plight of those genuine people who have money deposited in the accounts for various reasons. For instance, if they have sold a property, who is going to be penalised by this increase or introduction of penalty on cash withdrawals? I am going to implore the Hon. Minister, if he was listening, to then consider the reduction in the figure of 2% for transactions above US$1 000.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I have listened to additional contributions by Hon. Gonese and also consulted my technical staff at the back, I now want to propose that we lower the 2% penalty for withdrawals above a US$1 000 in cash down to 1%.
HON. BITI: It is unfair to punish the majority of innocent Zimbabweans over the sins of small number of cartels zvigananda who are engaged in speculative activities. The Minister says that his move announced on the 7th of May by the President was a move to deal with speculators and not a revenue measure but how many persons in Zimbabwe actually have the money that they can use to engage in speculative activity on the black market?
We once called the Governor of the Reserve Bank to the Public Accounts Committee when I was still Chairperson and he confirmed that 90% of the deposits in the banking system were controlled by 12 companies, like Delta, Econet, Innscor and so forth. As I am talking to you right now, Innscor borrowed ZWL$46 billion from the banking system. Ninety percent of the people in Zimbabwe are not Innscor. They are not Kuda Tagwireyi, Simon Rudland, McMillans or Scott Sakupwanya. So, why should 90% of the population be held at ransom by speculators that are known because if the Reserve Bank is doing its work through its FIU, if the Ministry of Finance’s Economic Unit headed by Conrad Nyamurowa is doing its work, we know the culprits? We know who has over a US$1 million in his account right now. Every bank will tell you. These decisions must be based on science.
The 1%, I take it but when the Minister comes in November, he must give us the science justifying why the rest of the population should be penalised over culprits that are known, culprits that you can put a red mark on the bank. We know where Innscor banks. We know where Kuda banks. We know where Simon Rudland banks. The FIU at the Reserve Bank will say if this one withdraws, tell us, red flag. After all, banking standards are based on Know-Your-Client basis. We cannot be punished.
I gave an example of the children’s home that lost US$2000 in charges. Hon. Gonese has alluded to what is happening in the legal fraternity. Conveyancing is now offline. There is no money that is put in a trust account of a lawyer because of the charges. Once it is offline, you lose revenue. There is no lawyer that will take money from a seller. They will say we do the agreement and munosotana ikoko. We will do the transfer. What you do, we do not know and we do not care. The net result of that is that under-valuing of purchase prices, under-valuing of capital gains tax, under-valuing of stamp duty and who is losing, it is the taxman.
The problem is that when you increase too many taxes, you increase the propensity of tax avoidance and tax evasion. That is what is happening. When you lower taxes, there is natural voluntary compliance. That is a proven fact. The Minister is a professor in economics from Cambridge University and a former Dean of Business Studies at Wits University. He knows these things better than myself. You ought to be doing better. I thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Firstly, let me thank the Minister for reconsidering the 2% for withdrawals above USD1000 to 1%. That spirit of concession is welcome. I just want to take us back to the response by the Hon. Minister in his first response to quite a number of Hon. Members who had made their presentations to the extent that the tax that is being proposed is to deal with speculative behaviour by individuals who are withdrawing money and playing with it on the parallel market.
I had given an example of USD175 and recently the Hon. Minister made policy pronouncements to the effect that the US dollar can trade parallel to the Zimbabwe dollar in shops. You walk into a particular shop and it is legal to buy using a US dollar or Zimbabwe dollar. I would give you an example; today in OK Kwekwe there is no sugar but sugar is available at Simrac and Simrac is not agreeing to sell the sugar in RTGS. It is only accepting in US dollars. The USD175 which a civil servant is obtaining is not for speculative purposes to go and change on the parallel market. It is only USD175. It is in response to the business that is beginning to reject the Zimbabwe dollar and only accepting the US dollars. There are well known shops and they are called dollar-shops where you find all these basic commodities being imported from South Africa but are only sold at US dollars. It is a reality. The Hon. Minister simply needs to take a walk to Mbare or any of these high density suburbs and you find quite a number of such shops that only accept US dollars.
The USD175 which the civil servants are earning cannot be subjected to this particular tax on the basis of speculative behaviour by other individuals who have got lots of money in their banks. I am not very good at coming up with this formula but I am sure the Hon. Minister can somehow factor a particular lesser percentage for civil servants who withdraw that USD175. To put it simply, if you may say USD175 is tax free, you find that the majority of civil servants are going to benefit because that is the only money that they get, anything above that is gotten through other means. The USD175 must be exempted from tax so that the civil servants can get at least a wholesome amount under which they have been given by Government. After all their RTGS salary is not benefiting them. It is the USD175 that is realistic.
I want the Hon. Minister to make a clarification on the effect of this tax to the withdrawals through money transfer agents, your Inbucks, Mukuru, and World Remit. What is the net effect because our relatives in the Diaspora are sending us the USD100 to cushion us from our economic challenges? If we are going to accept these 5 cents per withdrawals below USD1000, what is the net effect to the charges which are going to be borne at the money transfers?
Secondly, you know the people are currently supporting or supplementing living to their parents or relatives in the rural areas. So, you have found that money transfer agencies have set up shops in Chitekete, in Zhombe and all these rural growth points for our rural based parents to be able to access USD. Shops in rural areas are beginning on an incremental basis to demand USD. What is the net effect of agreeing to this tax of 5 cents charges to the money transfer agencies?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chair. Let me just clarify something. The way this tax ought to be administered is as follows: when we get to the now 1% threshold which we have reduced from 2% threshold; the 1% is paid on the extra amount above USD1000, I just want it to be clear – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjection.]- That is really a marginal tax.
Hon. Chikwinya raised a very important point; he wants to know whether these charges are applicable when one receives money through a money transfer agency and the answer is no.
You have been singing out ‘civil servants’, this would be a very untidy way to manage such a tax. The admin will be a nightmare if we do this but he has made a proposal. While we would like to look after civil servants’ welfare sufficiently, I am not sure that we would achieve much by doing this or we just have created nightmares for ourselves in terms of administration.
So I still feel that the concessionary to reduce it from 2 to 1% for above USD1000, is a step in the right direction. I have listened very carefully to what Members have argued and I agree with them, so, I have given a concession and I think we should proceed.
Amendment to new Clause 4 put and agreed to
Clause 4, as amended, put and agreed to
HON. BITI: On a point of order! I do not see Dias from the Draftsman’s office, is there someone from the AG’s office because the amendments have to be recorded that the Minister on this Clause has agreed to reduce the 1% on the 2% of USD1000 and above.
THE HON. CHAIREPRSON: Hon. Biti, I am being informed that your concern is being addressed.
On Clause 5:
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Chair. We have had a challenge that Zimbabwe does not have formal employment. Clause 5 proposes to increase withholding tax chargeable to cross border traders who do not produce tax clearance certificates from 10% to 30% with effect from the 1st August 2022. Now, the critical aspect to consider here is the target group which is the cross border traders. This group, the majority of them do not have tax clearance certificates because their business is informal. The Ministry of Finance, in fact the Government acknowledged their presence that we have informal traders because of the nature of our economic challenges, and they presented presumptive tax which presumptive tax ZIMRA is collecting at trading points. So, if you go into a flea market, vegetable vending market or hair salon, the people there are paying presumptive tax collected by ZIMRA.
Now, for us to then charge up to 30%, what we are doing is - we are increasing smuggling and corruption at the border post, equally inward because once a tax is too high; it creates a ground for the ZIMRA official and the trader to make a personal or inter-personal conversation and evade the tax. If a tax is affordable, it is easier for the trader to be able to give money to the Government. We are also pushing these traders out of business with an increase of three times. Having factored in their pricing model at 10%, they were lending perhaps a pair of shoes imported from South Africa at 15% but if you are going to push the tax up to 30%, that pair of shoe has to go up to about $45 because it has to follow the incremental of the tax.
So Hon. Speaker, I want to believe Hon. Prof. Mthuli Ncube is aware that we are having elections by July of next year. If we are going to tamper with this constituency Hon. Minister and Hon. Chair, I think we are simply creating a social upheaval from a constituency that has already settled for a particular tax of 10%. We need to be cognisant that the majority of these people were actually in formal employment in industry when industry was actually functional. Now that industry has closed and we have pushed them out of formal employment, they are now in informal employment; to go back and tax them I think is unfair. Remember they are the same individuals whom we have been taxing all along with IMTT and the five cents per $1 000. These are the very same people who are bearing all the brunt of taxes. In my view, I would seek the support of this House that this tax remains at 10% and never be allowed to move to any other tax higher than 10%.
HON. GONESE: I want to associate myself with Hon. Chikwinya and I also want the Hon. Minister to clarify for us the rationale or basis for which the Hon. Minister is seeking to increase this presumptive tax from 10 to 30%. Is it motivated by the need to raise revenue because I want to assume that in respect of this particular amendment or proposal, it cannot be motivated by trying to deal or as a way of trying to deal with speculative activities because these informal traders are actually looking for a way to survive.
Some of them, I know when I grew up, everyone would say I want to be a doctor, pilot, teacher and no one would say I want to be a vendor or informal trader. It is something which is driven by necessity. It is not like people enjoy being informal traders. In light of that, I believe that these people should not be penalised. As Hon. Chikwinya has rightly said, I believe it will actually force a lot of them to try to go underground. People will now try to evade paying tax because of the figure which is being proposed. If you are making a profit of
ZWL$3 000 and you are being taxed 30% of that, for a person who is just barely making ends meet, it is a lot of money or whatever figure one is making as an informal trader.
I therefore submit that tax should remain at 10%. I think that 10% is sufficient to enable the fiscus to get something from these informal traders. After all, most of the big guns are not paying tax. They are finding creative ways or creative accounting and so on, of evading taxes. I believe that the Hon. Minister, if he wants to raise revenue, he must really focus on those big companies which are not paying their fair share of tax. Let us have a situation where as other Hon. Members have spoken about the entities which are dealing in mining and so on, that is where I think the Hon. Minister should be focusing on and not focusing on the little person who is making very little in terms of profits. You want to take away that little they will have made by increasing the percentage that they are being taxed. I therefore plead with the Hon. Minister that on this one, please find other ways of trying to raise the money. Do not punish those people who have already been punished by the economy and the situation in our country. That is my humble plea to the Hon. Minister.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Chairperson, I want to concur with the other Hon. Members that have debated before me. This industry is meant for the poor, widows and the orphans and many of those people that are here in Zimbabwe sent their children to school through vending. I was listening to the Hon. Minister of Finance when he was saying maybe these people that will be taxed do not have any import and export licences and if it is an amount not more than USD1000, they may not be taxed. However, what I have learnt from experience of those that are in this industry is that things have become too difficult for them and they have now devised systems of evading the normal borders. The revenue collection officers have road blocks and at times they take everything because these people have not even declared their commodities. In Makusha, there is a certain blind woman called Mai Simon. She told me of a story that she went to Mozambique to get things and she did not go through the border but she is blind. A policeman caught her and confiscated all her goods. Since that time, she has not recovered to go back into that business. When she tried to go back to recover her goods, she never got them. These are the kind of issues which are happening to our poor. I therefore think that the Minister must reconsider this. When we are talking big businesses that are in the business of smuggling commodities, yes, fine but to our poor people, I am saying let us keep it where it was or let us completely do away with it especially to an amount up to USD1000. So I submit Hon. Chairman.
(v)HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you so much Hon. Chairman. My view is, we are a people who should abide by the laws of the land. I think the Minister in trying to deal with the issue of smuggling and the amount of goods that we see on our streets, in our shops and flea markets that have come into the country illegally, they have come up with ways of actually destroying our industries and those who are trying to build manufacturing industries in Zimbabwe. So, I do not understand Hon. Members that we would want to deny the Minister to deal with a heinous thing that is destroying our economy today. My view is, if the Minister is going to say if somebody brings things through the legal market, the tax is low and if you bring it illegally and you are caught without declaring duty on the commodities that you want to come and sell in Zimbabwe, the cost should be high. I think it is time that we deal with those things. If you go to other countries, you cannot even bring in things even as a traveler they would want to see whether you are not bringing this thing for resale. If they suspect you are going to sell, they will charge you an arm and a leg. So, I think while we really symphathise with our people who are in the informal sector trying to survive, whatever they bring into the country, they must use the correct channels. My argument is that if we get these people bringing things into the country using formal channels, you come up with concessionary duties for them. Those who are found using corrupt ways and smuggling things must be charged 100% because we are not going to build our economy or protect our industry if we allow smuggling and people who do not want to use formal channels to import goods into the country. I think we need to differentiate the two. Protecting our people when they are doing their work legally and formally, we have no problem but if they decide to do it outside the channels, then we are defeating the whole effort to revamp our economy by allowing people to bring in things using illegal channels. That is my contribution. I thank you.
(v)HON.WATSON: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me to contribute on this clause. Whilst I would like to agree with all the other Hon. Members who have spoken, I would just like to point out to the Minister that not only does the informal trader market apply to people who lost their jobs but also during COVID-19, it became sustenance for many. It also became a source of being able to access goods for many. So, I think that whilst we are talking about not encouraging smuggling, we also have to accept that our borders are extraordinarily porous and all we are going to do is drive informal traders back. Some who had stopped using those porous borders will go back to using them and it will not help to tax the few 30% instead of taxing the many 10%. I agree with Hon. Chikwinya’s first point to leave it where it is. I thank you.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. I want to support the proposal by the Minister for two reasons. I think the first thing is, the Minister by introducing the presumptive tax in this area is trying to deal with issues of compliance. I think these informal traders are expected to comply with certain provisions of our laws that they are not complying with. That is why we end up having this 30% presumptive tax. The first thing is these informal traders that the Minister is targeting are dealing on commercial goods and not necessarily these people who cross to buy little items. These people trading in commercial goods are also expected to contribute to our tax revenue which I think some of them are avoiding by smuggling their goods into this country. I believe that through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. Certain goods are supposed to be brought into this country through an Import Licence, and some of these people avoid all these requirements and end up bringing their products or goods through illegal means. This is why the Hon. Minister is proposing to penalise these people using this provision of Presumptive Tax. Those informal traders, who would have complied with the law or the expectations of the law, will not be paying this 30%. Judging from most presentations made by other Hon. Members, it sounds like the Hon. Minister intends to penalise every informal trader by 30% - which is not correct, that is not correct.
What the Hon. Minister seeks to do in this, according to my understanding, is to say if you are not complying with what you are expected to be complying with, as an informal trader, there is a penalty for non-compliance. I agree with the other Hon. Members that our economy is largely informal but being informal does not mean that we must not contribute to our fiscus. Despite the fact that we are informal, we are expected to comply with the law. So Mr. Chairman, we cannot say we are doing business and then on the other hand, we are not paying taxes or we do not have the requisite papers. If I need certificates of good standing, to show that I am a tax payer, I should have those documents and with those documents, I will not have a challenge with the 30% that is being mentioned.
Why is it that we seem to be encouraging people to do business in the informal sector and that everything that happens in that business should be informal despite the fact that we are dealing with commercial goods? The moment you start dealing with commercial goods, you have to regularise your operations somehow. You have to have your papers in place, pay your taxes and do your business properly, that is what the Hon. Minister seeks to do here. Let us do business properly and contribute what we are supposed to be contributing. So, for me, I support the clause. I do not see any reason why we should be defending non-compliance in this House. We should be supporting the efforts by the Hon. Minister to say let these people who are operating in the informal industry comply – that is the whole idea of Presumptive Tax that is my proposal. I support the proposition by the Hon. Minister, and I think it is my right to say why I am supporting, that is exactly what I am doing. Those who are opposing can oppose, that is not a problem but in this one Mr. Chairman; I think that if we decide to do business, we should have the requisite papers and follow regulations. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Chairman. Hon. Chairman, I will propose as follows that at some point, there be 30% levied on informal traders but this is how I propose the Hon. Minister should go about it. First and foremost, enforce registration of the informal traders into the mainstream system and in the same way we established the Special Economic Zones where we have tax holidays for a certain period when investors are establishing in those geographical locations and special taxes in those geographical locations.
I therefore, ask that the Hon. Minister, after the informal trader has voluntarily registered to be tax compliant; I know there is a tax certificate that says you can withhold 10% if you are not compliant or if you are compliant and have been paying your taxes, you can get a clean bill of tax certificate. After voluntary compliance of registration, the Hon. Minister should give these informal traders six months before they can get that 30% withdrawn from them in order for them to conduct their business and show seriousness in the way they conduct their business. If they then pay their taxes, the Hon. Minister should then review that file after six months to say, you now are able to either continue operating your informal trade or we will now withhold 30% of either your gains or tax according to that cross border operation that you are conducting.
I say this Hon. Chairman because there was a year where we conducted an operation called, ‘Chikorokoza Chapera’. Gold fell from 19 tonnes to 1.9 tonnes in that year because all the artisanal miners went underground. They continued to operate but did not remit their gold to Fidelity. There is an appetite to be delinquent and circumvent the law if you over regulate, this is my thinking.
Currently, the Hon. Minister is able to get by hook or crook, a pittance from the informal traders. There is a risk of drying the little that he is getting because as long as we are not computerised, as we are, who gains from hiking of taxes by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is the police and everyone else who is policing those cross border checks because they then go to nocturnal lines of operation. They go and pay 10%, as opposed to paying 30% to Government. I will say it this way Hon. Chairman.
I have a recent experience where I stayed in the cells overnight. I had 10 people that I shared the cell with and I asked them what their issues were. What they told me was shocking. The other one said that I was found with 23 sachets of marijuana of USD0.50 cents, that is ZWL10.00 but the policeman said, if you give me USD300.00, I will let you off. I gave him USD200.00 and he said he was going to commit me to the cells and when my relatives had given him the other USD100.00; he would let me out at any time. True to that word, at midnight, the police came and unlocked the cells, and the young man went out.
Which court is open at 12 midnight? What was the reason for somebody to be removed from the cells at 12 midnight? So there is collusion, corruption and more corruption because of the fear that has been put into the prisoner by the police to meet their own ends. So who benefits here is the police and Government has not benefited anything, if at all, Government has not given a fine to this youngster with marijuana. So there is no tax going to Government, as long as we continue to hike the taxes, the taxes for corruption are also being hiked.
I have just given you an example for the police. There is another young man who was arrested and the police said, we want $80 and he produced $60. They said we will commit you to the cells, and when your relatives have given us the other $20, we will let you out. True to that, at 7 o’clock in the night the young man was removed from the prison. It means the relatives had played their part but Government had not benefited anything. You see, it is overregulation and overtaxing. We will make sure that the law enforcement agencies that are corrupt get to win at the end of the day. All this I am putting across to you is something that can be investigated because the day I was inside is known. The day these youngsters were inside is known. Their names and addresses are known. So we can, according to Isaiah 6:1 , ‘In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord ...’. We can learn something because of the hiking of the tax and the debate that has ensued here so that we can kill two birds with one stone. My clarion call is hike but along the lines that I have proposed Mr. Chairman.
HON. I. NYONI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am going to highlight one or two issues. First of all, the withholding tax – this tax is also there in companies. If you do not have a tax clearance certificate, 10% is deducted when you receive payment. On importation, if you do not have a tax clearance certificate the withholding tax is also 10%. As regards the issue of cross-border traders, it is a bit on the higher side. Perhaps it is important that the Minister relooks and aligns it with the one that is levied on companies who import. The cross-border traders, besides the 10% pay customs duties at different rates. Goods are levied custom duties at different rates. Some are 5%, some are 10% and some go as far as 40% of the value for duty purposes. So it does not mean that the cross-border traders do not contribute to the revenue to the fiscus. They do pay. We all know that on top of that they also pay VAT when they go to the shops. When they also do their transactions, the 2% IMMT tax is applicable to them. This will definitely be an incentive for the cross-border traders to dabble in smuggling of goods.
We are aware in our ports of entry, for example Forbes Border Post and Plumtree, there is a lot of space where people just walk across the border. Beitbridge at least there is a river there, but still there is a lot of smuggling that goes on. If the tax is very high, it is an incentive for people to smuggle. It is an incentive for these other people who thrive on taxing the smugglers. If the smuggler is charging you 10% while you pay the actual duty plus the 30%, the incentive is there for one to smuggle the goods. My point is that let us keep the tax reasonable.
Before I wind up, the issue of tax clearance certificate, if you are a first timer, it is easy to get. Thereafter, you have to have all your paper work in place and you have to submit online on the ZIMRA e-filing system but unfortunately, most of the time the ZIMRA e-filing system will not be working. I know some of you who are business people here, will agree with me that at times you will have to wake up midnight so that you can access that system because during normal working hours, the system is just not working properly. I do not know what the reason would be and I do not think the cross-border traders will wait to submit such papers up to midnight. That is why I think it is very important that the Minister must make it simple and straight forward. Do not make the tax complicated. If it is easy to pay the tax and the figure is reasonable, we will have a lot of compliance going on.
In brief, my call is that the Minister should leave that at 10% of whatever figure instead of increasing it to 30%.
*HON. R. NYATHI: On a point of order Chair. I think we are now debating issues that we are not supposed to be debating. I think the Minister is saying that the cross-border traders are allowed to bring in goods worth one thousand dollars but those who have businesses should have export and import licences. If such a trader does not have the license and is caught smuggling goods, they have to pay the 30%. That is my understanding. I do not think he is saying everyone who is passing through the border should pay 30%. I stand guided – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – That is why I raised a point of order. I want to understand what we are debating here. According to my understanding and I stand guided, because in my opinion we seem to be debating the wrong issue. That is my opinion.
HON. I. NYONI: In conclusion Mr. Chairman, the Minister should consider leaving the withholding tax at 10% instead of 30%. Also for the benefit of other MPs, we are talking about import of goods. We are not talking about local withholding tax. On import of goods there are goods that need an import licence. There are goods that need an agricultural permit. There are goods that need a bio-safety permit, various permits of all sorts. In the case of an ordinary cross border trader who brings normal goods, you do not need an import licence. Thank you Chairman.
HON. T. MOYO: Hon. Chair, I have looked at the clause and concluded that the clause is very progressive. I have to substantiate my views. It is progressive in the sense that it seeks to increase withholding tax from 10% to 30% for those traders who fail to produce tax certificates. A trader who sells his/her salt should be a person of integrity; a person who respects the law; a person who is compliant to the dictates of law. In this case, those who fail to comply are those who are going to be affected by the 30%. Otherwise this is a very progressive law. It will act as a deterrent measure for those people who would be doing fuel contraband trade; illegal trading across the borders. So, I support the Hon. Minister for this progressive clause. Thank you.
HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker Sir, this is a very unfair, exorbitant and punitive proposal. The Minister’s proposal is to raise the withholding tax on cross border traders from 10% to 30%. This provision is unfair because the regime of withholding tax on people that do not have tax exemption certificates across the length and breadth of the economy is 10%. So, what is the rationale of isolating cross border traders and say you pay 30% and the rest of the population is not paying more than 10%? This tax is also irrational in that there is no definition of a cross border trader.
I heard Hon. Raidza and Hon. Nyathi argue that this is only targeted at traders but there is no definition of a trader. So, any person who brings goods from South Africa becomes a trader and is automatically slapped with the 30% withholding tax. Since there is no definition of a trader, no distinction is made in respect of an ordinary citizen who already has his rebate; I think it is at US$300. I do not know what it is right now. It is also unfortunate in that the person who actually declares his goods and pays duty is the one who then immediately finds himself slapped with an additional 30%.
You are formal. You have not decided to take your goods through the river, in Limpopo or through the mine infested border between Zimbabwe and Mozambique, Forbes Border Post. You are actually in the queue. So, you pay your duty and the next thing the tax man says pay another additional 30% because we think you are a trader, you are going to sell these goods. So, what in fact you are doing is to say to that person who is innocent, in addition to the duty you have paid, you have got this extra tax. It is irrational and all you do is to create a huge pool of illegal smugglers into the country.
What is the mischief that the Minister is trying to do? The Minister says he is trying to deal with the issue of non-compliance but it cannot be non-compliance that is just targeted at cross borders that you are now saying 30% when the rest is 10%. The problem with our borders is actually not the people who come through the border formally, because those are in the system; those are visible. The problem at Beitbridge, Nyamapanda, Forbes, Kazungula and Mukumbura, all the border towns in Zimbabwe, the problem is illicit smuggling by big fish.
As I am talking to you right now, only two days ago, the South African Revenue Services (SAS), obtained an order against a company called Gold Leaf Tobacco Company owned by Simon Rudland. The preservatory order was for three billion Rands. What was happening was that Simon Rudland, a Zimbabwean, was smuggling gold and tobacco from Zimbabwe into South Africa. Then once it lands into South Africa, he sells the gold and tobacco illegally and then puts the money in different satellite accounts; proxy accounts of different individuals. Those proxy companies will then deposit the money at Gold Leaf Tobacco accounts at Sasfin. Once the money is there, unsuspecting employees of Gold Leaf Tobacco will then delete the transactions and then in minutes the money is then shipped to Dubai into a bank in Switzerland. If you go to www.mevrick, you will see this report now. I can also give you the case number of the South African case in the High Court of Pretoria.
What the Minister needs to be coming up with are measures to deal with Simon Rudland, not with Mrs Ezra who is trying to sell three doils for her child to go to Mzilikazi High School. What the Minister needs to be dealing with is Simon Rudland at Gold Leaf Tobacco, that is the mischief, not mai Chemhondoro of Ngezi who is trying to raise money to finish the roof that was left by her husband who was killed in Mucheche bus service at Chivake in 2004. That is the problem with all his tax measures. They are targeted at the small person when the big fish are there. So you are chasing the small…
HON. RAIDZA: On a point of order. My point of order is that in the Bill, the Minister is talking about the informal traders who are doing it on commercial basis. That is what we want to hear. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I think I am entitled to raising my point of order.
HON. MADZIMURE: Chair, he can still come and debate, not a point of order when someone is debating. No, it is not proper.
HON. RAIDZA: Can I finish. Clause 5(k) says informal cross border traders thirty percentum of the value for duty purposes of the commercial goods. I am saying this so that we help each other so that we can follow the Hon. Member’s debate. He is dealing with commercial. That is what we want to hear.
*HON. BITI: We do not have documentation that shows that at this stage we are dealing with commercial and at this stage we are now dealing with individuals. So all that is taken as the same but customs is the one that says your goods have become too many so I am putting them as commercial because we do not have the definition. That is where the challenge is with this law. That is why we are saying the tax should remain at 10% because the individual who has come and is in the queue to pay duty is not informal because he is paying duty and hands over his duty payments to our ZIMRA office.
Hon. Raidza thinks that there is a definition of formal commercial goods. There is no definition for that. It is not there. So I think this policy should remain at 10%. The solution for the Minister to deal with informal trade is not to deal with informal trade through the Finance Bill. He has to come up with a separate independent Bill that creates incentives of transforming the informal sector into the formal sector. He has to come up with a formal mechanism of how to transform the dead capital trapped in the informal sector into live capital. I know he has read Hernando’s book, Dead Capital and how you create incentives firstly through legal registration, in other words the legal regime, the law. So registration is very important, licencing is very important. Secondly, through creating tax incentives as opposed to increases in taxes because when you increase taxes you actually expand the informal sector because people hide away from paying taxes, but when you create incentives for registration, people will register. That should be done in a comprehensive stand alone Bill, not peaceful measures whose making fact is in fact to force people to go underground as Hon. Nduna put it.
So I urge my good friend and neighbour in Chitungwiza to simply maintain the status quo of 10%, then to actually come up with a comprehensive piece of legislation that deals with dead capital at two levels, the level of legalisation or registration and the levels of incentives. I thank you very much Chairman.
*HON. HWENDE: Thank you Chair. I want to put emphasis on the issue of maintaining the 10% for the few months left in the year so that the Minister can have time to go and reconsider and look at the impact of the 30% on the cross border traders because as other legislators have said, raising capital to go across the border to go and buy is not easy so most of them get capital from micro finance houses and 30% per month is the interest rate from the microfinance houses. So then you take USD1 000 and you need to pay 30% and then the border charges, you an additional 30%. At what price are you going to sell the goods not forgetting transport? So it comes back to the ordinary consumer.
Minister, we are trying to penalise the wrong people because the leakages that are at the borders, the border is porous and they are serious. As we speak, are you aware of the fact that there are people who are importing fuel in Mutare? Trucks go through and they are working with the police at roadblocks. Those are the businessmen known as the mbingas. A few were arrested who imported fuel in trucks and they were saying it was water and they were evading tax.
If you go to the airport, yesterday we were talking of border controls, there are cartels right from the defence forces to the police force who, once you clear your goods, follow you and they use their phones to say your things are worth this much and the prices. What they are trying to do is to create an avenue for bribes. If you go to any border, the police have assumed the role of the ZIMRA officials. Even after being processed by ZIMRA bribes are being done. So people are struggling and a lot of them are bribing. If you want to smuggle your goods, you just give the driver or the conductor your R500 and you do not pay duty, no presumptive tax, no nothing – [Laughter] -
My point Hon. Minister is that at the moment as you can see, some of them are even here. I am sure you have a starting point and if you take him aside, you will get more information – [Laughter.] - My point Minister is that let us suspend this and maintain the 10% until you bring the budget, until you engage in research on the impact. If we are to deal with our porous borders and close the leakages, we will succeed. Our industry capacity utilisation is still very low and those cross borders are actually brining in goods and augmenting our industry which is not producing enough.
This is an issue concerning the people and the smugglers, the white clothed and bearded gentlemen are the ones smuggling goods into the country. So let us look at dealing with the closure and plugging the leakages through our porous borders. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I thank the Hon. Members for their wonderful contribution. I also appreciate some of the humour and the passion. It is needed, it has been a long day.
Let me start with Hon. Chikwinya, but what he mentioned and a lot of other people mentioned which is that he feels this tax is rather high, it is a disruptive tax in terms of the increase from 10% to 30%. The same was raised by Hon. Gonese, Hon. Nyathi, Hon. Watson, Hon. Nyoni and Hon. Biti.
Let me start with the rationale, at the risk of repeating. This is a simple compliance measure. In our research this is what we found and there are large formal businesses that are operating locally who want to avoid import duties. So they find several smaller traders whom they give money to cross borders and they bring in goods and these are smuggled and so forth. So mission accomplished and tax is avoided. The entities behind these informal importers are formal registered businesses that are just doing it for the sole purpose of avoiding taxes. We want to stop that.
There is a definition of what a commercial trader is. A commercial trader is someone who is trading values of USD1000 and above. These are commercial traders who seek to avoid taxes and we do not want that to happen. We want them to comply and we want them to register. We also want their handlers to also comply. This is what this is all about. It is a compliance measure and not a revenue measure; that is all. I think Hon. Members should understand it for what it is.
I thank Hon. Togarepi, Hon. Raidza, Hon. Nduna and others for being supportive of this measure. This is a simple compliance measure at the risk of repeating. We want to make sure that we reduce informality. Members stood up in this House to argue very eloquently about the need to reduce informality. There is need to broaden the tax base and that is what they have been arguing. Here we are kindly trying to deal with informality to make sure that everyone tries to register and now they argue against it.
If you register, what is the problem? You do not pay the 30%. We are not talking about the ambuya that was referred earlier on who is trying to bring in two boxes of doilies to sell and pay school fees. That is not the person but we are talking about a bigger fish who does not want to pay tax and wants to avoid tax and that is what we want to deal with. That is all. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: There was a special request which I think the Hon. Minister need to consider. Hon. Hwende had moved because remember we are doing this supplementary budget for the next few months and what I was going to suggest is just to support and emphasise on the point that Hon. Hwende had come up with. I think it is imperative we retain it at 10% for the time being and the Portfolio Committee on Budget and Finance went through the various borders. I am also aware that the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Home Affairs also went through the borders. What we will do is to help you Hon. Minister when you craft the 2023 budget so that we see and come up with a proper researched position.
You had already pointed out that this is not a revenue measure but it is compliance. So in terms of revenue to fund your supplementary budget, it is not going to affect much. My plea is that for the sake of these few months, we retain it at 10% then we will make a commitment from the Budget and Finance Committee and the other Committee on Home Affairs to try to help you Hon. Minister because the question of border management is an issue, we need to see how best Government can get maximum revenue. This is my plea and I think the request should be easier Hon. Minister to consider. I thank you.
HON. BITI: The introduction of withholding tax on cross border was not inserted by the Taxing Act and the Taxing Act is the Income Tax Act. It was inserted by the Finance Act and the amendment which we are talking about is an amendment to the Finance Act and not to the Income Tax. I can assure you Mr. Chairman that there is no delineation, there is no definition that separate trader, commercial trader and the definition of 1000 he was talking about.
The Minister knows that I know the Finance Act because we have been fighting over his over use of Section 3 of the Finance Act, in particular Section 3 (2) of the Finance Act lacking statutory instruments that have been amending Acts of Parliament. Hon. Gonese who sitting over there won a case against Statutory Instrument 96 of 2022, which is the subject of the next amendment in this Bill which we are dealing with on Section 6. Hon. Gonese has got a judgement against that Statutory Instrument 96 and I was the lawyer. So I know what I am talking about.
If he wants to persuade us about the delineation which is the argument of Hon. Raidza, let us put it in the statute so that we know who we are targeting because there is a lacuna, there is a gap, kwashiorkor in the legislation as I am talking to you namhla khatesi, question of law, but question of economics, why choose cross border traders only to impose a punitive tax of 30% when every other person who does not have a clearance certificate is paying 10%? Why are you trying to deal with, whether it is smuggling or those runners on a piece meal basis? Why do you not come up with a separate piece of legislation?
That is our point and I support my brother Hon. Mushoriwa’s suggestion that we are already in September and tomorrow is the 1st of September, of which you have already started on your 2023 budget. You have already done the Budget Strategy Paper and in two months time after the Congress in October, you are bringing the budget here. So, we can wait in November after the Congress then we pass the budget with the new proposal. It is coming in October and it is very simple Hon. Chairman. Let us wait for Congress and we come here and pass the Budget. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
HON. I. NYONI: The Minister highlighted that some of the cross border traders are being used by some companies not to pay full revenues that are due to ZIMRA and the fiscus. Can I also point out that in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, ZIMRA has the authority to do post importation audits. They can visit the various companies and check whether the goods that are in stock were cleared on importation. Usually there will be the normal bills of entry to prove that whatever goods were imported normally. In terms of legislation, I think it is quite sufficient. What needs to be done is to capacitate ZIMRA so that they do more post importation audits.
*HON. MADZIMURE: The Minister said that he knows the people who are abusing the facility and he said these runners. Since he knows the beneficiaries, why can ZIMRA not visit those businesses and then penalise those people? Secondly, is the Minister aware that most people who are operating shops have no tax invoices including the Chinese? I do not think it is a good idea for him to penalise all the people because of a few who are engaging runners, it is not right. The law must be made so that everyone follows it. I think the Minister should go to those people who are engaging the runners and deal with them so that they prove that what they are selling was properly imported. I am saying for now, leave the 10% as it is and then you address the matter later in the year.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I do not want to say much suffice to thank Hon. Biti and Hon. Madzimure who know very well that we are going to Congress in December. That is all that I have stood up to say. In addition, I would want to say a few words on the issue of people who are depriving Government of revenue. I would like to say that I do not think it is a good idea to penalise cross border traders who are hard working. I know that the Minister is aware that there is corruption and smuggling at our ports of entry. Some of the things happen in broad daylight and as Members of Parliament, we just fold our hands. All the people who are engaged in corrupt activities must be brought to book because Government is being prejudiced of the much needed revenue. All the offenders must be given a blanket sentence, whether they are cross border traders or their handlers.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Once again, I thank the Hon. Members for their effervescent contributions. First of all, I want to deal with this issue of definition because it is very fundamental. I would like Hon. Members to refer to the Finance Act of 2020 in the Schedule for Monetary Values, Section 38 under the Customs and Excise Act. It is spelt out in there. Just take a look because we say that any goods that are above USD1000 need a bill of entry and if they are below that, they do not. That is where it is captured. We should go back to that schedule, it is clearly defined – [HON. BITI: Then I am right.] - The Hon Member is actually wrong and he should be happy that I have corrected him and pointed him to the right area.
I now come to the issue whether 30% is high or low. I think we have been debating this for a while. It is an important issue; we need these agents to comply. I am going to propose a compromise. As I said, we need this to be in place. Ukabata mwana, amai vacho vanochema. So, if you catch these cross border agents, the handlers that I talked about earlier on will cry. We need this measure to force compliance. I am going to make a proposal that we reduce it from 30% to 20%. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 5 put and agreed to.
Clause 5, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 6:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon Chair. Clause 6 has got two problems in my view. Firstly, the 2% tax which is the intermediate money transfer tax; they are saying the transaction which is now exempt from the 2% has now been moved from ZWL1000 to ZWL2500. That, Hon. Chair is a misnomer; given the fact that you are aware that the time when we passed the budget, the auction rate was at 85 and the rate has now gone to 480. Then if you actually put that allowance of 10%, it goes to around 500.
It is imperative that the Minister needs to move the tax exemption or the 2% exemption should be moved from ZWL1000 to at least a figure of about ZWL5000. Failure to do that, you are not helping the poor and like we have already mentioned, there is always a compensatory measure; you do that, it allows the people to spend more money.
Secondly, the B part, it is now said that the IMTT will be charged at 4% for transaction in USD. I think it is wrong in my view. When the Government made a decision to allow a multi-currency system, when they introduced the USD, I do not understand the mischief but I think it is wrong to then have a situation where you charge 4% on USD transaction and 2% on ZWL transaction. The challenge you then face and this is a major one. Do you know that many companies or the small companies; you go to Siyaso or any area where there is commercial activity, people that are charging in USD, most of them do not have tax invoices? None of them is paying tax. You are actually creating an avenue for tax evasion, tax avoidance primarily because you have actually increased the USD charges. We need to make sure that if it is 2%, let it be whether you are paying in Rands, ZWL or USD. Our system should be uniform and consistent.
Hon. Chair, I believe that intermediary money transfer tax, we increase it from ZWL1000 to ZWL5000. On B, we remove the word ‘four’ and replace it with 2 so that the 2% is also charged on USD transactions. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Hon. Chair, I wish to contribute to Clause 6 on the minimum that is not taxable. Whilst I appreciate that IMTT contributes immensely as a way of collecting revenue, I have a same feeling that ZWL2500 is very little and I suggest that the minimum or the maximum that should not be taxed is ZWL5000. I think that is a way of giving our customers, the Zimbabwean populace to be not taxed and they can also have some disposable income. I thank you.
HON. BITI: I will be very brief. I support Hon. Mushoriwa’s suggestions that we increase the threshold from ZWL2500 to ZW5000. I also support very strongly that we should harmonise the tax rate on all currencies which used the law anyway, we harmonise the tax rate on all currency not to have a lower rate for the ZWL and a higher rate for the USD. So, we should merge (a) and (b).
My real concern Hon. Chair is on Clause 2, which says Statutory Instrument 96 of 22 as it affects Section 22(g) of the Finance Act is hereby validated. From a purely legal point of view, this provision is totally unnecessary because section 32 of the Finance Act says any regulation made by the Minister in terms of Section 3 will die unless within six months the Minister gazettes a Bill and he has gazetted a Bill in five months. So, the mere act of gazetting this Bill validates that.
So, subsection 2 of 25 is unnecessary because it is covered by Section 3 (2) of the Finance Act. My serious concern lies with section 3 (2) of the Finance Act. Section 3 (2) of the Finance Act allows the Minister to make any regulations which can override an Act of Parliament. I have a concern Mr. Speaker that the Minister cannot override what we would have enacted as Parliament. The Minister cannot override Parliament and what the Minister has been doing has constantly been overriding us as Parliament.
So, I would like to submit to the Minister not to abuse section 3 (2) and perhaps in December, propose an amendment to section 3 (2) of the Finance Act when he brings in his finance. For now, it is too late so that we take away his power. We have given him the power to make any regulations, provided that any regulations he makes he cannot override Parliament, which is what consistently he has been doing. That is why he is seeking that validation. That will be my submission Mr. Chairman.
HON. NDUNA: The differentiation of the IMTT tax on RTGs and USD from 2% to 4%, because of choice of currency, it in essence banishes the banking of the USD. It is called DOA, dead on arrival. We are trying to encourage the USD to go in the mainstream banking sector and I will give you the reasons why. Hon. Chair would know that he sold his abattoir to me and when I buy cattle I use USD. Those people in the rural areas do not bank the USD but how does my USD go into the mainstream banking sector? When I slaughter the cattle and supply to the buyers, naturally when the citizens buy the meat, somehow there is some tax that goes to the Minister of Finance but I can bet you my last dollar, the USD that I have left in the rural areas will never find themselves into the banking sector so long as there is the threat of raising the IMTT to 4% as if it is the USD.
I want to bring the Minister back to the time when he introduced the IMTT. It was 2% across the basket of currencies. It would be interesting to know why he now needs to raise it from 2% to 4%. I would want to know from him; maybe he can convince me to think otherwise. At this point, I am not convinced that this is a panacea and antidote to the issue of the disappearance of the USD from the mainstream banking sector. I would appeal to the Minister’s conscience and heart that he maintains that it be on 2% as we have adopted the basket of currencies. I wish and as I do to get answers as to how this was contemplated in the very first place.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Some colleagues are raising issues around this Clause 6. We have done our research and we feel that the thresholds that we are proposing are the right levels. Also Hon. Nduna wanted to know why the percentage threshold was different for USD. Again, this was to deal with speculation. We felt that it was needed to deal with speculation this way by raising the IMTT weight for USD transactions.
We also felt that this will be a way to promote the use of the domestic currency. Again, it is a probing tax argument that you penalize the currency that you want to discourage more than the one that you want to encourage. We wanted to create a level playing field for our domestic currency.
I now want to come to an issue that Hon. Biti mentioned about having won a case and all that. Ah Biti, hamuna kuhwina. Aiwa ndakahwina inini zvakakwana. I will show the papers. What they were trying to do Mr. Chair, they were trying to take away my powers to run the economy. No judge will agree with that Mr. Chair – [HON. BITI: You are amending Acts of Parliament.] – Aiwa, no, certainly the judge concurred with me in the end that we need to ensure that the Minister of Finance has the capacity to run the economy and to change policies but of course, come to Parliament when it is necessary and I do that. Perhaps this is an issue that we can take offline. It is not the issue that has to do with IMTT really but he raised it and so I had to come back.
For what it is worth, I have been taken to court a 120 times since 2018 and I have defended 120 cases, all successfully. That should be a lesson to colleagues that they should not spend too much time in court. VaBiti, ibvai kumacourts. Siyanai nemacourts. Ndakutaura zvimwe asi nenyaya yeIMTT, I think his proposals are reasonable. Really, let us support them. They have assisted us in managing the economy, dealing with speculation and arbitrary behaviour but also raising revenue and also making sure they can broaden the tax base. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I do not what research the Hon. Minister did but I want to just bring it to the basics. The price of 2kg sugar, 2lt cooking oil, 2kg washing powder and 2kg flour is costing more than ZWL$2500. Hon. Nduna said we need to go back to the genesis of this 2% tax and what the Hon. Minister told us when he came before Parliament, it is crucial that we move from ZWL$1000 to at least ZWL$5000. If we do not do that, the MPs, as representatives of the people will have failed because we are supposed to represent the people. What I am telling you are the concerns that the people in Dzivarasekwa will raise. The second issue is that the Hon. Minister cannot brush aside the question of the 4% tax. When the IMTT was introduced, we were using multiple currencies. Two per cent tax was being charged on US dollar transactions and 2% tax was being charged on the Rand. So, the Hon Minister cannot try to justify and say that if you use 4%, it will help people to move to the ZWL. What people will simply do is to continue to use US dollars but outside the formal banking system. So, we should make sure that the 2% be across the board so that we have that US dollar coming into the system. If we continue to do this, we will have a situation. Right now there was a point which was raised when we were discussing the 30% withholding tax. Do you Chairman know that most entities that are run by the Chinese and Nigerians in Zimbabwe charge for their goods in US dollars and I can assure you that less than 15% of the money that we pay for the goods comes into the formal banking sector? It is the fiscus that is actually suffering and to that extent, I think the Minister needs to really look into those things. If we do not do that then we are not doing justice to this country. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: I hope that the Hon Minister is consulting with sincerity. I am aware that you may not have gone to the supermarket for a long time. I do not think you go shopping as we do ourselves. If you were doing so, you would have noted that the prices of all basic goods as alluded to by Hon. Mushoriwa have actually gone up. When you are looking at the sum of ZWL5000 in terms of what it can buy, it is very little and it is in that respect that I plead with the Hon Minister to appreciate the difficulties the majority of the people of Zimbabwe are going through. As a result, it will be very appropriate to increase the figure upon which this tax is applicable from ZWL1000 to ZWL5000. In respect of the differentiation between the two currencies, the Executive through the Hon. Minister realised that we had to revert to the multi-currency regime for a purpose. The rationale given by the Hon. Minister that he wants to discourage the use of the US dollar, I do not think it is appropriate because people have to use the US dollar for various reasons and one of them is that the goods are actually imported.
After the Hon. Minister realised the folly of their decision to promulgate an instrument which actually said that only the Zimbabwe dollar was the currency which was supposed to be used, they actually had to reverse that and once they did that through S.I. 33, it became very clear that the use of the US dollar was driven by necessity. So I do not see any reason why those using the US dollar should be penalised. Also there should be no differentiation. The IMTT should just be across the board and if it is the same percentage for the ZWL and US dollar, I think that it will serve our country very well. There is no purpose or point in saying that we want to discourage the use of the US dollar because the reason why the US dollar is still in use is not because people do not want to use the Zimbabwean dollar but it is because of the fundamentals which have actually dictated and meant that the Executive, that the Hon. Minister had to eat humble pie. I know that he had a convenient excuse that it was to deal with the COVID pandemic but the reality on the ground was, he realised it was no longer feasible to continue using just the ZWL. For that reason, I therefore implore the Hon. Minister to accede to our request and to reach a compromise. Also remember Hon. Minister that this is a point which has been raised by all the Hon. Members who have contributed to this debate unlike on the other clauses where some of the Hon. Members were of the view that there was justification. On this particular clause, I believe all the Hon. Members who have contributed have agreed that those two issues should be amended in such a way that firstly the figure be raised to ZWL5000 and that there should be no differentiation between the two currencies. For that reason, I submit that the Hon. Minister should compromise as he has done on the other clauses.
HON. BITI: We urge the Minister to accept the movement to ZWL5000 though it does not buy anyone anything; ZWL2500 does not buy you anything. I challenge the Minister to point out anything in Zimbabwe that costs ZWL2500, including bubble gum. So, you are just giving minor relief, otherwise it should have been ZWL20000. So asking for ZWL5000 is just common sense. It is just an appeal to reduce administrative taxes on a tiny amount. The rationalisation and harmonisation of the taxes makes sense to use 2% on both currencies. The Minister cannot say we are encouraging the use of the local currency when his de-dollarisation process imposed by Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019 and Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 failed because the dedollarisation process was introduced without the requisite conditions in the economy supporting the return of our currency. So he has had to eat humble pie. You cannot punish the people of Zimbabwe to say, use my money when you should not have introduced the money. You introduced the money prematurely. So, do the right thing, just make it simpler for everyone, everyone will know that I am paying 2% transaction tax whether it is the USD or ZWL. It is not an indictment on anyone; it is not an acknowledgement of failure but just common sense.
Then sub-provision 25 (2) is unnecessary, he must go and read Section 3(2). It says, once you gazette, you have validated the Statutory Instrument. So Statutory Instrument 96 of 2022 was validated on Friday, when this Finance Bill was gazetted, so you do not need an extra validation in the form of the proposed Section 25 (2) – it is superfluous, that is all I need to say Mr. Chairman.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. First of all, I want to put it on record that the introduction of the ZWL is a very positive thing. Now we have full Monetary Policy, and domestic currency. Of course, we have allowed the foreign currency to circulate along with our domestic currency and we believe that this is the right model for us to manage our Monetary Policy. So I certainly disagree with Hon. Member Biti on his assertion that the introduction of our currency was a wrong move. It was a right move; we are now a more competitive economy as a result.
Now, on the arguments presented by colleagues about raising the threshold, again, I have reflected with my team. I propose that this be moved to USD4000.00, so we reset the tax exempt transactions from ZWL1000.00 to ZWL4000.00, I compromise on that one. Thank you.
Minister of Finance having consulted with his staff.
The staff was giving me something else which I wanted to make sure on. Actually I wanted to just add a footnote on the court case that I won on 27th July, 2022. I wanted to get the date so that the information is precise. So, I want to confirm to Hon. Biti and Hon. Gonese that I won that case. I cannot be curtailed from implementing policy and each time we have to consult elsewhere.
Let me come back to Clause 6, on the issue of the rates, I want to maintain the 4% on the USD portion, as I said, the reasons were to make sure that we create a level playing field between our domestic currency and the USD being a foreign currency as well as to deal with speculative activities. Hon. Members, I have compromised and conceded on the threshold. We have made progress. So Mr. Chairman, let us approve this then I request that we report progress and adjourn and continue tomorrow.
Those who want food, I am now organising, I found a way. We will give everyone food but it will be a takeaway because we could not organise the kitchen on time. So we are working on it, ngatifambei. Tinotenda.
Amendment to Clause 6 put and agreed to.
Clause 6, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee of Supply to resume: Thursday, 1st September, 2022.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE), the House adjourned at Twenty-Nine Minutes past Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st August, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put their phones on silent or switch them off.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE FOR THE SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NO. 32 (6), 52, 65 (2), 67 (5) AND 137
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Mr. President, I seek leave of the House to move that the provisions of Standing Orders No. 32 (6), 52, 65 (2), 67 (5) and 137 regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, the Automatic Adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. and at Twenty-five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday, Private Members motions taking precedence on Thursdays after question time, that question time shall be on Thursdays and stages of Bills respectively, be suspended until business relating to the supplementary budget has been disposed of.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Minister, what is the reason for the suspension?
HON. CHIDUWA: The main reason is for us to expedite the Budget Debate process because we are still in the Lower House and we are hoping to finish the Finance Bill today.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NO. 32 (6), 52, 65 (2), 67 (5) AND 137
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Mr. President, I move that the provisions of Standing Orders No. 32 (6), 52, 65 (2), 67 (5) and 137 regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, the Automatic Adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. and at Twenty-five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday, Private Members motions taking precedence on Thursdays after question time, that question time shall be on Thursdays and stages of Bills respectively, be suspended until business relating to the supplementary budget has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day, Nos 1 to 3 be stood over until Order of the Day No. 4 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE STATUS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS AND ACCESS TO ANTE-NATAL CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN IN PRISONS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President Sir, for giving me the opportunity to support the motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Ndlovu regarding the livelihood of children of incarcerated mothers. Indeed, such children are suffering and it appears they are also incacerated in jails. People face different jail terms emanating from different cases like stealing from people, abortion, murder for example that Chivhu woman who killed children and other offences like stock theft and concealment of evidence. Mr. President, what happens when prisoners meet is that they socialise in their own way; for instance they use their mother language and at times the kind of language that is used in prisons is vulgar, which does not build but destroys a child at a tender age. With that in mind, that kind of a culture negatively influences the upbringing of a child. So, it is prudent that when a parent has committed an offence, then the child should be taken to a safe place where they will grow up under normal circumstances and not under prison conditions.
The other thing is that when we are introduced into society, a child is taught how to communicate with both parents and it is difficult for a child to grow up without a father and without relating to the father. So, it is important that they are brought up in neutral places where they can have access to their fathers so that they get moral support. As they grow up, they have rights just like any other children such as the right to education. I know this was mentioned by other Senators. The education of children is found in different sources like day care centres when we look at international standards of bringing up children. It is equally important to mold them, honouring their rights and not bringing them up in a way which will compromise even their future. So, I would like to implore Government to establish centres where children can be attended to in day care centres even from such a tender age. A neutral community where they are taught basic ethos will be good for them because allowing them to grow up in prison, you would find that they will learn vulgar language, a lot of negative influence and some of that influence sticks to these children and it might compromise even their adulthood. So, my request is that such children should be given a safe and conducive environment. Their health is important.
We know that women who are incarcerated sometimes are looked after by female prison officers, so it is important that their children go to the same schools and associate with children of prison officers so that they get positive influence. It is not right for a child to know that their parents are in jail but there are some things that we grew up not knowing as we were growing up, things that we discovered when we were grown up. If we were told when we were young, they might have influenced us negatively. So as this august House, we need to deliberate on issues which build moral values which will mold our children to make them responsible citizens, whether Chiefs, Senators or Members of Parliament or those from royal families who might stand a chance to be chiefs. With these few words, I want to appreciate the opportunity because as a chief, my responsibility is to encourage the well-being of a family. There is no chief without people and for a chief to be there, his subjects should be having positive livelihoods. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this motion although a lot has been said regarding incarcerated pregnant women or those that have minor children. Indeed, our Committee moved around different prisons and what did not please me is that in the prisons which we toured, we discovered that most prisons were built during the Smith regime and they were meant to punish the black men. In these jails, you find that there are toilets in that prison cell. It is not good to be arrested. I was once arrested at Bindura Prison. There are some senior prisoners who give you rules; for instance, relieving yourself late at night is not allowed because there is no water. My request is that there should be proper facilities because even at home, you find that we have separate toilets. It is not healthy to have a prison cell with a toilet within the cell. The toilet should be outside.
The other thing which concerns me is that the mentally ill prisoners stay together with those who are sane. To me, this is not right. My request is that Government intervenes. We are the Government and this is what we are talking about. I have been in this august House since 2013. We talk about these things but implementation is lacking. This is really discouraging. This is why sometimes we do not debate because whether you debate or not, nothing is implemented. Women live like slaves in prisons. Their children grow up as wild animals because when a child is weaned from the mother, that child should be taken out of prison but you find the children growing up to four to five years and still they continue to live in jail. That is not good. With these few words, this is what prompted me to stand up. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: Hon. President, I stand up to debate about children who are incarcerated by default because their mothers are in prison. These children grow up in a prison environment and that is not good. We need to look at our prisons whether it is in Bulawayo, Harare and other towns and the statistics of the children who are in prisons. This will allow us to come up with a proper plan of establishing proper facilities which will set our children free. We need specialists on child care so that we know that children whose mothers are incarcerated grow up under a conducive environment. We can say a lot but we need to understand that in the next six months or so, we should have established proper centres. If there are no such plans, then we will continue to have that problem.
We need to engage the relevant Minister so that such facilities are constructed where such children can be housed. These facilities should be good where our children can learn a lot of skills. They leave such centres and are at par with their peers who are in other schools. We need to have a scheme which will be monitored and we will report progress to this House with relevant statistics. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to add my voice to the motion regarding children who grow up in prisons. I was once incarcerated at Chikurubi Maximum Prison and I was there for almost six months. I have first-hand experience and it is not easy.
Children live with their mothers in a specific side that is set for mothers with children. They are given donated napkins to prisons and there are fights over napkins, toiletries and other basic amenities. When a mother is arrested, she will be given a prison sentence and goes to work with other women for a number of hours whilst the children are not monitored. The senior prisoners are given the task of looking after the children. When one person looks after many children then they are not able to look after them properly. Sometimes you find them sending a person to call the mother of a specific child if the child continues crying. Sometimes we could not assist these old women because if you are not giving that task, you are not allowed to do that. This is difficult.
At one time, a Chinese national was arrested and she had a baby. That child was brought to where we were incarcerated and she was not aware of what was taking place. She was quite comfortable in the environment but her mother was crying. This implies that if she knew what was happening then she might have reacted differently. You would find people eating porridge without sugar and you would wonder what kind of porridge is given to prisoners and their children. So inmates are forced to eat that without any choice. I did not see the toddlers but I heard that they are taken to Tongogara where there are crèches and nurseries. At Chikurubi Female Prison, they share facilities with adults and this is difficult. The prison authorities do not allow visitors to bring sugar or salt for prisoners even a spoon. You would find children eating porridge with their fingers. This is from a personal experience; it is important for people to visit Chikurubi Prison just to ascertain what is happening. I thank you.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st September, 2022.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st September, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE STREETS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on vulnerable
children living in the streets.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. I also want to add my voice to the motion that was tabled in the House that I seconded. A lot has been said Mr. President concerning street kids.
The debate that we are talking about Mr. President concerns children. We are a nation that is putting its hope that our children are the future for tomorrow. A lot has been said that sometimes our children find themselves in different situations but as a nation and as Government, we have a duty to ensure that our children know that they are our future generation. There is a saying that says, ‘it takes a village to raise a child.’ That saying reflects that everyone of us has a responsibility to make sure that inasmuch as a child may not be your biological child, you have a responsibility in raising that child.
I want to compare Mr. President, as someone who grew up in the rural areas, and also as someone who resides in rural areas; those children that we refer to as street kids, you will realise that they are not found in rural areas. We find most of the street kids in urban areas. My question therefore Mr. President is, as a society, why is it that there is a difference in raising our children? In rural areas we have children and most people in our country reside in rural areas. Why therefore, do we not have street kids in rural areas? Why do we not see these street kids at rural shops? We should have a relook at the way we used to live as Africans whereby it would be your responsibility as a parent to see how a child is raised, even your neighbour’s child. Why can we not do the same even in urban areas?
We should note that when we go to urban areas, when coming from rural areas, there is need for us to value our culture and remain true to our values. In the past, you would realise that whenever you came across someone you will greet them whether you know them or not. That is common in rural areas but in urban areas you can pass someone without even greeting them. This is indication of how we have diverted from our norms and cultures. We have adapted to some wrong and bad cultures. That is why we have street kids Mr. President. This is now a problem and we are therefore requesting that Government, working together with the Ministry of Social Welfare, should take note that our tomorrow is based on the generation of our children that we have. We are pleading with Government that since it was raised before on the issue of children’s homes where they can be taught on how to behave and become future leaders, we realise that every child, when they come to the teenage stage, most of them sometimes fail to stay with their parents.
We have got street kids who are aged six or seven but most of them are at teenage age. We are therefore thinking that it is best for the Government to take note that most of the times, most of the children when they get to teenage stage, they resort to stay in the streets. Most of the children raised in the rural areas, when they go to urban areas, they face such challenges. This can be the only way we can correct the behaviour of our children. Because of that behavioural change, nowadays there are so many street kids, which is something that we never had before. Some of the street kids smoke glue. If as Government we strategise on how to stop this, what is it that we are going to do?
What kind of a nation are we going to be? We will end up having more of street kids. We are therefore asking, as highlighted by my other Hon. Members as well as Sen. Sekeramayi, that we should have a programme or a strategy as a nation on measures that can be implored.
We can keep debating but as long as there is nothing being implemented on what we debate as Senate or National Assembly, we are going nowhere. We should come up with a way of making follow ups on issues that we debate on. Why should we keep on requesting things from the Government and we are not seeing any implementation? We need tangible evidence of results. We are requesting that Government should take note of the things we are requesting. Some of the things we request because we will be talking from experience and know that will cause problems in the future. With these few words Mr. President Sir, I am kindly requesting that we see tangible results or at least implementation of the things that we are requesting. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st September, 2022.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. KAMBIZI, the House adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 30th August, 2022.
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that I have received non-adverse reports from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the following Bills:
- Finance Bill [H. B. 9: 2022]
- Appropriation Supplementary Bill [H. B. 8: 2022]
*HON. NYABANI: Thank Mr. Speaker Sir. This august House led by Hon. Adv. Mudenda, has made me proud in my Constituency, Rushinga. I was begging for water in my constituency and it has come to fruition, water is now there. I was also requesting for teachers in Rushinga. Now teachers are being recruited in Rushinga, this became possible through the leadership of Hon. Mudenda.
When we are in our rural areas, if we do not bring concerns to this House, no development will take place. I see this Parliament has assisted us in getting boreholes as well. I also want to appreciate the issue of deployment of teachers because our students used to have one teacher from grade one to grade seven. So, I want to thank this Parliament and the President.
On the issue of hospitals, it is good to see that the medical facilities in that area have improved. My request is that we would like to see the outstanding issues being addressed. I believe that this House has worked hard in terms of addressing the concerns of the people we represent. I want to thank this House. I want to thank the Ministers and I want to thank the leadership of Parliament for taking up our concerns. As representatives, we are honoured for the work that we are doing. With these few words, I want to thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Nyabani, what you have said is what reflects you as a true representative of the people. You are performing your representative role well. The little that remains, I urge you to pursue that which you said is still outstanding for it to be addressed; it can also be achieved. That will improve the lives of the people in your constituency. Maybe they will re-elect you in 2023.
(v)HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Speaker, you may be aware of the story and I ask you to imagine the traumatic experience, Mrs. Selina Tadya, the mother of Livingstone Sunhwa, the 19-year old St. Matthias Tsonzo student who went missing on 6 December, 2021. The traumatised mother has gone through a lot in her failed efforts to locate her missing son; secondly, in her quest to get cooperation and assistance from the police and the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to establish what really happened to Livingstone; thirdly, to get closure on whether the human remains that were discovered on 24th June, 2022 are indeed Livingstone’s due to the delays in concluding the DNA investigations.
This matter hit the headlines via social media in May/June, 2022. May I request through your Chair, that the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage come to the House and tell the nation why they are taking forever to get done with this matter, considering its gravity. What difficulties are they meeting? What processes are they taking and when is the matter going to be concluded so that the nation really knows what happened? I am aware that the school Head was suspended. It is also in the interest of justice that the matter be expedited so that if he is guilty, he pays for his deeds but if he is innocent, he be allowed to continue with his life. Currently everything and everyone is in limbo.
Is Government waiting for socialites to beat the drums and blow trumpets before the police make progress? May the Minister also use the same opportunity to update the nation on the progress made on the Tapiwa Makore of Murehwa case who was beheaded in September 2020 and Mutasa Central’s Benza cousins, Melisa and Dylan, who were butchered in cold blood in April 2021? I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of privilege Hon. Speaker. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. It is always good to have you back. If the father is in the house, you always feel warm. So we are grateful you travelled safely and now you are back. Mr. Speaker Sir, you are aware of the issue that I had brought up on Hon. Wadyajena before the arrest, to say that I did not want to rush into moving a motion for a Privileges Committee to be set up until due diligence was done to see whether it warranted that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: To see what, I did not quite get that?
HON. T. MLISWA: To see whether it required a committee to be put in place because of the experience from our Privileges Committee which was set up as a result of the allegations in the Herald and we had never appeared before the courts that at the end of the day there was not much due diligence done. I think when people think of moving for a Privileges Committee to be put in place, there must be a thorough assessment of the matters to a point where Legal Counsel of Parliament is involved to see whether it warrants it or else the precedence set then becomes a problem.
So then the arrest came through without the answer in terms of what I sought and my capacity as chairman of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC), in my own capacity as well as a Member of Parliament in the fight against corruption and as Members of Parliament, we must be seen to have a good social standing in terms of attacking these issues. Now that the matter is before the courts and there was no report back on what I had requested, we must also be seen to be working in collaboration with agencies that fight corruption because we make the laws as well.
Now we read that there was a Cabinet authority which was approved but of course the Cabinet authority would only come about if Parliament has recommended the said person for Cabinet authority to come through. It then boggles every body’s mind how serious Parliament is in having to tackle corruption. As APNAC, we believe corruption robs us all. So I think there is a certainty up there with members of APNAC themselves, Parliamentarians and the public itself to say we see you exposing others for corruption but now when one of your own has allegations, of course bearing in mind that you are innocent until proven guilty. What set up is Parliament taking to ensure that there is some sort of response to give confidence to the people being the institution that represents people?
So it is in that light Mr. Speaker Sir that the fight against corruption cannot be fought when institutions like Parliament are quite over one of their own members and it seems there are different strokes for different folks. If it is Hon. Mliswa, Hon. P. D. Sibanda, the late Hon. Chikomba and Hon. Ndebele, a Privileges Committee is put in place immediately which last time was moved by Hon. Mataranyika. We were also cleared and again, the Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira has not come to Parliament to exonerate us and unfortunately, Hon. Chikomba died without him being exonerated as per the findings of that Committee, which is rather sad.
So I would also move that the Committee comes and gives its findings and concludes that matter before some of us die because when you die a matter is not concluded. People can say he was corrupt yet a Privileges Committee was put in place. There was desire to set it up but there is no desire to think closure. So we now do not know. It is in that light that I seek your indulgence before we move for a Privileges Committee to be put in place, the Standing Orders in terms of the asset declaration of Members of Parliament, now it is pretty clear the 25 trucks which are there were they declared? If not declared, what action is Parliament taking to ensure that they are also seen to be driving home their own rules? I really seek your indulgence before we blow this out of proportion, knowing very well that you, Hon. Speaker Adv. Jacob Mudende, are a lawyer and an advocate for that, so we are fortunate that we will never bring issues to this place which do not have that legal opinion.
I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and like I said, I stand here on behalf of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption as Chairman and on my own behalf as an advocate for fighting against corruption. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: On the first issue of the due process of the report, we had a technical hitch in terms of the process and we are going to ensure that the report is tabled by next week. I do not want to preempt the findings at this juncture.
On the question of Hon. Wadyajena, this is a matter that has involved the courts, which is different from the matter that you referred to which was really more of an in-house situation. I have been in touch with ZACC. I wanted to know whether indeed there is a docket. At law, the docket must be there which raises charges against the accused. As we speak now, before I came here, the Hon. Justice Matandamoyo indicated to me that they are finalising the document because there are other offences that have emerged that involve external stakeholders and these are being asked to expedite to give them information. So the docket is not ready for me and the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, on the advice of Legal Counsel to Parliament, on the way forward. That should be clear by 8th September next week. Once the docket is ready and on the point of probabilities, then we proceed in terms of our Standing Orders accordingly. So nothing will be swept under the carpet at all.
HON. HWENDE: On a point of clarification. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I think the first part, we understand the need for us to wait for the docket, but there is a second part which I think is easy and which is within Parliament’s capacity to interrogate, the issue of the asset declaration because everyone declared their assets and I think it is the easiest thing that we can do as Parliament, just to go into the file to see whether the trucks were declared because if there was an under declaration, then that means there is a case for Parliament to pursue. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much for the clarification. This is why I said due process will take place including what Hon. Mliswa suggested and we affirm to that. We will check in the asset books whether that has been done or not. That is admitted. It is part of the due process. You do not want to rush things as if heavens are falling. In the end, the integrity of the institution must be protected. In the end, the due process also must be adhered to. So your point of clarification is accepted.
HON. HWENDE: You are welcome.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 15 be stood over until Order of the Day No. 16 has been disposed of.
HON. L. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 51ST PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HOSTED BY THE PARLIAMENT OF MALAWI
`
` HON. MPARIWA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report on the 51st Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum hosted by the Parliament of Malawi in Lilongwe.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I second.
HON. MPARIWA:
1.0 INTRODUCTION:
1.1 The 51st Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was hosted by the Parliament of Malawi from the 7th to 16th July 2022 under the theme: ‘Towards Energy Sufficiency, Sustainability and Self-Sufficiency in the SADC Region’.
1.2 The Zimbabwe delegation was led by Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe, and it comprised the following Members of Parliament: -
- Tambudzani Mohadi, Member of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture, Natural Resources and Infrastructure;
- Goodluck Kwaramba, Member of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development and Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (ZWPC);
- Dought Ndiweni, Executive Committee Member and Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights;
- Anele Ndebele, Member of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment; and,
- Paurina Mpariwa, Member of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
2.0 OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
2.1 In her welcome remarks, the Secretary-General of the SADC PF, Ms. Boemo Segkoma, stressed the need to heighten Intra-Africa trade through the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA). She also implored Member States to ensure that African women are empowered through entrepreneurship to tap into the envisaged economic gains offered by AfCFTA. She called on the Plenary Assembly to ensure that young girls and women are empowered through opportunities that are offered by an equitable society that does not discriminate based on gender or sex. Furthermore, the Secretary General concluded by tendering credentials of the delegates to the Plenary Assembly and invited the Hon, President of SADC PF to address the Assembly.
2.2 Hon. Christopher Mboso N’kodia Pwanga, the Speaker of the Parliament of DRC and President of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, expressed gratitude to H.E. Dr. Chakwera, President of the Republic of Malawi for the double achievement in the transformation of the SADC PF which was borne in Blantyre, Malawi in 1997, while the 41st SADC Summit resolved unanimously that SADC PF should transform into a Regional Parliament as one of the organs of SADC PF. On that score, the President of SADC PF commended the Chairman, His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus McCarthy Chakwera, for chairing the 41st SADC Summit which affirmed the Transformation Agenda of the SADC PF. Furthermore, he pleaded with H.E. President of Malawi to canvass his fellow Heads of State and governments during the 42nd Summit to be held in DRC by encouraging that Summit accedes to the amendment of Article 9 (1) of the SADC Treaty which makes it possible for the envisaged Regional Parliament to be one of its organs.
2.3 Solidarity Messages were presented to the SADC PF Plenary Assembly during the Official Opening Ceremony. The Right Honourable Speaker, Dr. Sidie Mohamed Tunis, Speaker of the ECOWAS Parliament, emphasised that private sector engagement is fundamental to achieving energy efficiency at regional level. He gave an example of the West African Power Pool (WAPP), as a clear manifestation of a successful public-private partnership initiative which covers 14 of the 15 ECOWAS countries. The WAPP programme promotes power generation and transmission infrastructure as well as coordinating power exchange among the ECOWAS Member States, thereby providing a regular and reliable energy source at a competitive cost for citizens of that region.
2.3.1 Dr. Sidie encouraged the SADC Region to leverage on private sector engagement as a powerful force in improving livelihoods, among African countries in search of accelerated socio-economic development.
2.4 The President of the Pan-African Parliament, Hon. Senator Chief Fortune Charumbira, saluted the support given by the SADC Region which propelled him to victory in the PAP Presidential elections held on 29th June 2022. He paid tribute to the region for standing firm and resolute in support of the principle of geographical rotational leadership which is one of the cornerstones of the African Union founding values. The PAP President also expressed gratitude for the support received from the Government of Zimbabwe led by H.E. Dr. President Mnangagwa. Furthermore, he saluted Honourable Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe, for being a father figure and a pillar of strength throughout the struggle for rotational leadership. He pledged to work hard to ensure that the continent is united under his leadership.
2.5 In delivering the keynote address, the Guest of Honour, His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus McCarthy Chakwera, President of the Republic of Malawi, noted that the theme was in tandem with the Maseru 1996 SADC Protocol on Energy that recognizes the criticality of energy in pursuit of the SADC vision of economic well-being and poverty eradication in Southern Africa through industrialisation anchored on adequate energy supply.
2.5.1 The President of Malawi expressed confidence that the deliberations of the Plenary Assembly would be guided by the SADC founding principles and decades-long quest to diversify energy sources and transition to green renewable energy.
2.5.2 The President of Malawi recalled that the Summit of Heads of State and Government had approved at the same venue, a proposal to transform the forum into a SADC Regional Parliament in order to make it a legislative body as opposed to being a mere deliberative body. In this regard, as the current Chairperson of SADC, he pledged his total support and commitment towards the transition of the forum into a Regional Parliament as affirmed during the 41st SADC Summit of Heads of State and Governments.
2.6 H.E. President Chakwera lauded the inclusion of the SADC Model Law on Public Finance Management (PFM) on the programme as a commendable initiative by the SADC PF, as the PFM promotes prudential management of public finances. H.E. Dr. Chakwera concluded his address by wishing the 51st SADC PF Assembly constructive deliberations.
2.7 Hon. Catherine Gotani Hara, Speaker of the National Assembly of Malawi, expressed gratitude to the region for assembling in Malawi for a record fourth time in the life of the SADC PF. The Hon. Speaker urged the SADC PF Assembly to come up with robust recommendations on the way forward as she wished all delegates a hospitable stay during the Assembly period.
2.8 Hon. Seioso Joel Mohai, Member of the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) and Chief Whip, representing Speaker of the National Assembly of South Africa and the host of the 52nd SADC PF Plenary Assembly, Hon. Nosiviwe Mapisa Nqakula, graciously thanked Malawi, the Warm Heart of Africa for excellently hosting 51st Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC PF. He pledged South Africa’s readiness to welcome delegates to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Meeting to be held in the last quarter of 2022.
3.0 ZIMBABWE’S CONTRIBUTION TO THE THEME AND THE KEY DELIVERABLES DURING THE SYMPOSIUM
3.1 Hon. Anele Ndebele presented a paper on the theme on behalf of the Hon. Speaker and the delegation and noted that at the continental and global levels, energy was critical to the attainment of the global infrastructural development agenda.
3.2 The Plenary Assembly noted that the SADC region is endowed with abundant and diverse energy sources both renewable (RE) and non-renewable energy resources such as hydro, wind, solar, oil, gas, geothermal, nuclear and coal. There is thus, need to maximize the potential of regional renewable energy resources to ensure energy sustainability, security and self-sufficiency while decarbonizing the energy sector.
3.3 Furthermore, it was noted that, despite the abundant energy resources in the region, access to electricity remains low in Member States notably in Malawi, Democratic Republic of Congo, Zambia, Mozambique and Madagascar. It is imperative that the SADC region exploits fully the sources of energy supply such as coal, hydro electricity and natural gas in countries such as Zimbabwe, DRC, Mozambique and Tanzania in order to circumvent the debilitating energy deficit experienced since 2007.
3.4 One of the main challenges facing the electricity sector was the insignificant capital injection into power generation projects from either the private or the public sector. Over the past decade, Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, Zambia and Zimbabwe, among others, have had to resort to load shedding as a stop gap measure to conserve energy. This can only be forestalled by capital injection from the private sector and/or through Public Private Partnership (PPPs).
3.5 The Symposium noted that vandalism of energy infrastructure such as transformers and copper wires has negative effects on uninterrupted energy supply in the region. This vandalism was economic sabotage. Member States should guard against this vandalism and ensure that stolen equipment from other Members States is not sold across borders in other countries within the region. Stiff penalties should be employed in all Member States.
3.6 It was also observed that the Russia/Ukraine conflict had created energy imbalance as the prices of gas and oil increased exponentially resulting in imported hyperinflation. It is, therefore, imperative that SADC countries come up with clear Independent Power Producers (IPPs) policies in order to mitigate against the energy deficit.
3.7 The SADC Region should leverage the Inga Hydropower project for regional benefits. The Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP) must take interest to unlock the potential of the Inga Hydropower project, as an integrated regional project that would result in no less than 50% electricity being supplied to the rest of Africa.
3.8 In this context, the role of Parliament is to promulgate laws that promote energy supply. In that respect, the Zimbabwean delegation stressed the need for Parliaments to ratify and domesticate the SADC Protocols on energy as well as continental and international energy protocols in order to achieve sustainability in the energy sector within the SADC region.
4.0 STATEMENT BY HON. ADVOCATE JACOB FRANCIS NZWIDAMILIMO MUDENDA ON DECISIONS OF THE 144TH ASSEMBLY OF THE IPU AND RELATED MEETINGS HELD IN BALI, INDONESIA FROM 18 TO 24 MARCH 2022 AND THE 288TH SESSION OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE IPU HELD ON 28TH JUNE, 2022 IN MONTEVIDEO, URUGUAY
4.1 The Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, reported on the outcomes of the 144th Assembly of the IPU and Related Meetings as well as the 288th Session of the Executive Committee Meeting.
4.2 He reported that the Hon. Duarte Pachecco, President of the IPU, had implored Parliaments to exercise their legislative, representative, oversight and budgetary roles to ensure that international agreements on climate change are fully implemented. Parliaments were also challenged to share best practices and proffer global solutions to this global climate change phenomenon.
4.3 The report informed the SADC PF Plenary Assembly that the preparations for the 145th Assembly to be held in Rwanda were well on course. In response, the DRC delegation indicated that their country would not attend the 145th IPU Assembly, because Rwanda had invaded the Eastern part of the DRC region. However, the Hon. Speaker of Zimbabwe advised that the invasion of DRC by Rwanda created an invidious position for the SADC Region because Rwanda was in the SADC Region fighting side by side with the Region under the SADC Mission in Mozambique (SAMIM), repelling insurgency and banditry in Northern Mozambique. Furthermore, the Hon. Speaker appealed to the DRC delegation to embrace the peace efforts which had commenced under the auspices of the Angolan President where both Presidents Félix Tshisekedi and Paul Kagame had been invited to begin the peace process regarding the DRC Eastern Region in the spirit and letter of the 2nd July 2022, Pretoria Agreement and the Sun City Agreement which was signed on 2nd April 2003, all executed in order to find lasting peace in the DRC. The Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe advocated for a diplomatic and peaceful resolution to the conflictual situation.
4.4 Meanwhile, Mr. Ope Pasquet, Acting President of the House of Representatives of Uruguay, applauded the IPU for establishing a Task Force on the Russian Federation/ Ukraine conflict in order to achieve dialogue through mediation between the two sides in the conflict. The region is represented on the Task Force by Speakers of the Parliaments of the Republic of South Africa and Namibia.
4.5 In that regard, the IPU President reported that the Task Force was scheduled to undertake missions to Moscow and Kiev following invitations from both Parliaments of the Russian Federation and Ukraine in July 2022. Hon. Speaker Mudenda emphasized that as the Task Force embarks on its mission, it must be guided by the principle of neutrality and not to be dissuaded by the United States of America’s posture of preventing African States from siding with Russia through its Countering Malign Russian Activities in Africa Act promulgated on 22nd April 2022.
5.0 ADOPTION OF THE REPORT OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AND THE TREASURER’S REPORT
5.1 The Executive Committee (EXCO) tabled its report for consideration and adoption by the 51st Plenary Assembly meeting. The EXCO of the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC PF) had met virtually via the zoom video conferencing platform on 11th March 2022 and again on 10th June 2022.
5.2 The Report expressed gratitude to His Excellency, President Dr. Lazarus MacCarthy Chakwera, for officially opening the 51st Plenary Assembly Session and to the Government and People of Malawi for the warm hospitality.
5.3 The Plenary Assembly reaffirmed the clarion call to Speakers/ Presiding Officers of Member Parliaments to continue lobbying Heads of State and Ministers of Foreign Affairs to support the adoption of the amended SADC Treaty at the 42nd SADC Summit to be held in the DRC. The report emphasised and approved the need for further lobbying initiatives by the Strategic Lobbying Team on the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament to ensure that a two-thirds majority of countries is reached when the Amendment to the SADC Treaty is considered by the 42nd Summit.
5.4 The Plenary Assembly validated the results of the elections of the Chairpersons and Vice-Chairpersons of the RWPC and Standing Committees for 2022 to 2024 and wished the Committees a fruitful tenure of office.
5.5 The Plenary Assembly adopted the decision to participate in the collaborative event twinning the G7 Global Initiative and the SADC PF aimed at sensitising Parliamentarians on the production and transit of chemical waste and biohazards in Africa and the potential risks posed to the environment. The event will take place in Windhoek, Namibia, from the 27th to 29th October 2022.
5.6 The Plenary Assembly noted the need for National Parliaments to second staff on full-time basis to the forum, whose employment costs would be borne by Member Parliaments given the prevailing budgetary constraints being faced by the forum.
5.7 The Plenary Assembly adopted the need to incorporate best practices enunciated by the SADC Model Law on Public Finance Management. The Plenary Assembly commended the PFM Model Law as the first normative legislative instrument to ensure that PFM reflects commitments made at the regional level with regards to prudent management of the national purse in Member States.
5.8 The Plenary Assembly adopted the proposal for the Forum to participate in upcoming Election Observation Missions (EOMs), particularly in the SADC Region, to avoid losing observer status with some Electoral Commissions. The Plenary Assembly expressed disquiet over having the Commonwealth and the European Union observing elections in the region whilst the forum is visibly not represented.
5.9 The Plenary Assembly exhorted the Speaker of the National Assembly of Seychelles, Hon. Roger Mancienne, to actively secure an appointment for the High-Level Lobby Team to visit the Parliament of the Union of Comoros to entice them to join the forum.
6.0 MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING THE 51st PLENARY ASSEMBLY MEETINGS
6.1 Motion to Amend the Constitution of the SADC Parliamentary Forum to Provide For The Establishment of The SADC Parliamentary Forum and its Successors Trust
6.1.1 Plenary Assembly adopted the constitutional amendments to incorporate the provision to establish the SADC PF Successor’s Trust as a vehicle for SADC PF resource mobilisation.
6.2 Adoption of the Model Law on Public Finance Management
6.2.1 The Model Law on Public Finance Management seeks to cure a multiplicity of legal and regulatory gaps in the Financial Management Systems across SADC Member States that impede sound public financial management.
6.2.2 The Plenary Assembly Session adopted the Model Law on Public Financial Management (2022), which aims at good governance, accountability and transparency in the deployment of scarce public resources.
6.3 Report of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources
6.3.1 Plenary endorsed the call for SADC governments to strengthen agricultural data collection and management systems to ensure that all Malabo Declarations, goals and targets are met.
6.3.2 The adopted report called on SADC Parliaments to continue capacitating Members of Parliaments with the necessary knowledge to effectively participate in the budget process, and notably contribute on issues relating to public spending in the agriculture sector.
6.3.3 The report implored SADC countries to recognise the critical contribution that women and youths make towards sustainable agriculture in the region. Consequently, a call was made for Member States to set aside a specific quota in their national budgets to ensure food security is achieved in the SADC region.
6.3.4 Plenary Assembly adopted the proposal to leverage on the Inga Dam Project, as a regional intervention which is able to provide electricity to the entire region and facilitate large-scale farming.
6.4 Report of the Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights
6.4.1 The adopted motion encouraged Member States to finance and participate in Election Observation Missions (EOMs), particularly in the SADC Region.
6.4.2 The report recalled that the SADC PF has been known for producing very incisive electoral documents including the Model Law on Elections and Normative Standards on the Democratic Elections, which aim at facilitating the holding of democratic elections in the region. The Plenary Assembly agreed that it would be remiss for the region’s story on elections to be told by Commonwealth Observer Missions or the EU Observer Missions, especially in its own backyard.
7.0 RESOLUTIONS AND WAY FORWARD
7.1 There is need to create conducive legal frameworks, policies and strategies that are key to unlocking the energy potential in the SADC Region.
7.2 Biomass, oil, gas and coal dominate the current energy sources in the SADC Region, thus Member States are vulnerable to external shocks and climate change. SADC Member States must embrace renewable energy resources for their energy production. Furthermore, Member States can benchmark against the achievements made by Malawi in the removal of VAT and duty taxes on solar technologies and other renewable energy technologies which has resulted in the addition of 80 megawatts of solar power in the last nine months prior to the 51st Plenary Assembly meeting.
7.3 There is need for the integration of the regional electricity supply network to ensure that Member States can take advantage of economies of scale and reduce the cost of electricity infrastructure development.
7.4 The Plenary Assembly resolved to act against vandalism of energy infrastructure such as theft of transformers and copper wires that affects the energy security situation in the region. Such theft of public assets is economic sabotage. Member States should guard against this vandalism and ensure that stolen equipment from other Members States is not sold in their countries. Punitive laws should be enacted to curtail the vandalism of these public assets.
7.5 The SADC bloc needs to work together to ensure that the Inga Dam project is fully implemented as a sustainable intervention towards regional energy self-sufficiency, if not continentally. The Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP) must therefore, take an interest in unlocking the potential of the Inga Hydro power project.
7.6 Regional Parliaments should organise All Stakeholder Workshops to facilitate the speedy implementation of resolutions from Inter-Parliamentary Organisations, especially on the Model Laws adopted by the Plenary Assemblies of the SADC PF.
7.7 Through its Standing Committee Reports and submissions from its thematic organs, the Plenary Assembly adopted resolutions aimed at supporting the implementation of regional commitments in view of heightening need for gender equality, youth empowerment, enhanced agriculture, natural resource governance, anti-corruption and the need for pragmatic domestic resource mobilization. It is imperative to have cohesion in tackling the abovementioned subject areas to ensure that they dovetail with broader goals such as the Africa Agenda 2063, Ministerial commitments and the attainment of Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).
7.8 The 51st Plenary Assembly Session unanimously adopted the SADC Model Law on Public Financial Management (PFM). This constituted the fifth Model Law developed by the forum following those on HIV and AIDS (2008), Child Marriage (2016), Elections (2019) and Gender Based Violence (2021). There is need to scale up momentum towards the domestication of these various Model Laws already adopted by the Plenary Assembly.
7.9 The Plenary Assembly reiterated the need for all stakeholders to join hands to support the transformation of the forum into a Regional Parliament which has already been approved as a matter of policy by the 41st SADC Summit held in Lilongwe, Malawi in August 2021, and to ensure that the remaining legal steps are carried to the ultimate end. In this regard, the Plenary Assembly resolved to intensify lobbying efforts at national and regional levels to ensure that the stipulated majority is obtained at Summit level to adopt the Amendment to the SADC Treaty and the Protocol establishing the SADC Parliament.
7.10 The Plenary Assembly resolved to fully implement its Strategic Plan and ensure that the region becomes a vibrant powerhouse for socio-economic development and democratization through parliamentary initiatives that materially advance the standard of living and quality of lives of SADC citizens.
7.11 The Plenary Assembly stressed the need for Parliaments across the region to continue raising concern on the negative effects of destabilizing forces such as the conflict between DRC and Rwanda in the Eastern DRC as well as the banditry in Northern Mozambique. In respect of the decision by DRC not to attend the 145th Assembly of the IPU to be held in Rwanda, the Plenary Assembly pledged to advocate for dialogue and cessation of hostilities in the Eastern part of DRC, and that Rwanda be persuaded to disengage from further aggression.
7.12 The full dossier of the Plenary Assembly resolutions will be availed by the SADC Parliamentary Forum in due course for consideration by Portfolio and Thematic Committees of the Parliament of Zimbabwe.
8.0 CONCLUSION
8.1 The Plenary Assembly concluded by calling on Member Parliaments to continue intensifying collaborative efforts that ensure self-sufficiency and sustenance in the energy sector within the SADC region.
8.2 Parliament of Zimbabwe continues to play a highly effective leading role in the Transformation Agenda as the holders of the Chairpersonship of the Strategic Lobby Team of Hon. Speakers on the transformation of the forum into a SADC Regional Parliament. There is need to continue lobbying Heads of State and governments on the Transformation Agenda, and in particular the Amendment of the Treaty to officially recognise the SADC Parliament as an organ of SADC.
8.3 Parliament of Zimbabwe commits itself to the full implementation of the resolutions of the Plenary Assembly which shall be shared among all Members of Parliament to facilitate action by different Portfolio and Thematic Committees.
8.4 Parliament of Zimbabwe commits itself to ensuring that resources are mobilised towards the establishment of the SADC PF and its Successor’s Trust.
8.5 The 52nd Plenary Assembly of the SADC PF will be hosted by the Republic of South Africa, who have pledged to choreograph a memorable hosting.
8.6 Finally and notably, the Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, presented a well-rehearsed infographic treatise on the IPU and all Zimbabwean delegates avidly contributed to the proceedings of the 51st Plenary Assembly Meeting of the SADC PF. Furthermore, the Plenary Assembly observed a minute of silence on the passing on of former President José Eduardo dos Santos, of the Republic of Angola in recognition of his sterling leadership in the struggle to liberate Angola from the shackles of Portuguese colonialism. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to second this report by Hon. Mpariwa in respect to the Fifth Plenary Assembly of…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! I think it is only proper that Members of the SADC PF contribute to this and where are they? They go there to listen, we are not there, so they must buttress and we come in. Hon. Mushoriwa is not a Member of the SADC PF. It was supposed to be seconded by a Member of the SADC PF. Hon. A. Ndebele is a member, Hon. Ndiweni, so what do they do when they go if they cannot even come and debate on things they talked about? We are a bit blank on that in terms of - saka varikuite chii ikoko vachinogara mumahotera?
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of our Standing Orders, any Member can second, but you are right, there should have been some coordination with the mover of the motion - point taken.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you for your ruling in terms of our Standing Orders. Mr. Speaker Sir, SADC as a board for Southern Africa, the dream by the founders of SADC was for the integration of our countries - economic and political.
I want to start by saying that we do not seem to be moving at the speed at which the founders of SADC had in mind and because of that, you find that in a number of issues, economic or political. Instead of coming up as a coercive unit as SADC, we tend to have more of competition rather than coming as a grouping. It is my view that there is need for SADC to enhance that cooperation. A typical example that comes to mind, if you check the points that were raised by Hon. Mpariwa in her report, the question of the challenges that happened in the northern part of Mozambique where Rwanda had to come in, it is amiss and does not auger well for SADC, given the fact that if we were ready as a regional bloc, we should be in a position to have coordinated and help to avert some of the risks. You know that we used to laugh and also boast that in SADC, there were no possibilities or the challenges of terrorism were actually very low. We thought that we could build on the historical integration that we have had in this region. You know that the Bantu population in SADC; we are related one way or the other and it should have been easier for the integration but the challenges that we now have, to then allow a country like Rwanda to come and take a leading role in stopping terrorist organisations within SADC, does not augur well.
Secondly, Hon. Mpariwa raised the issue that in terms of protocols, this Plenary adopted the Public Finance Management Principles but there is a challenge in that this is the fifth. She has mentioned that the Protocol on HIV was adopted, Child Marriage, Election and Gender Based Violence but five protocols, the pace at which SADC is actually moving is very slow. I want to support a position that has been taken to say there is need to re-look into the manner in which the SADC Parliamentary Forum is operating so that it becomes a proper SADC Parliament. That will actually help in terms of building a more robust and economically empowered region.
The challenge of not having a proper Parliamentary SADC Regional Parliament is that when we go there on SADC Forums, we go there from an individual country perspective and that defeats the whole purpose. We are aware that most of the SADC countries were former colonies of Britain. We know that we had the Portuguese in Mozambique and Angola but our view is to say that we need to come to a stage as SADC; that we have to take our rightful place on the global platform rather than to continuously allow a divide and rule approach where an investor will come and then we tend to then give favourable or sometimes too generous tax incentives, primarily because Zimbabwe has to compete with Mozambique or Zimbabwe has to compete with South Africa, whereas in a proper regional coercive system, we could actually come up with an agreed platform to simply say - how do we treat investors in mining, et cetera so that as a region, we will actually prosper.
Lastly, I just want to touch on the issue of energy. It is true that we are lagging behind. We know that in South Africa, there is load shedding. Zimbabwe, there is load shedding and we all have those challenges. What needs to be done - this is where the integration and coordination need to come into play because as SADC, if we had this proper integration, you would realise that we have got the capacity to generate energy which is sufficient for the region. Now, our drawback is our failure as a region to properly adhere to the founding values and principles of the SADC fathers. If we had done that, by now, I think we could actually have moved a big step towards the integration.
As I sit, I just want also to thank – I noted from Hon. Mpariwa’s report, she cited you Mr. Speaker Sir, for having done well for the country. I also noted that quite a number of Hon. Members who sit in that SADC, some chair other Committees and some sit in the Executive Committees of SADC, which is a commendable thing and I actually wish that, that spirit could continue so that as Zimbabwe, we continue to raise our flag high. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Listening to the contributions by Hon. Mpariwa, I found it very impressive indeed. I think you have been following the issues that are taking place within SADC.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTIC, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, at the beginning of our proceedings, I did announce that I had received a non-adverse report on the Finance Bill and the Appropriation Bill. The Hon. Minister was not there. Now that the Hon. Minister of Finance is there, I am going to make the announcement accordingly and I would want the Hon. Minister to respond accordingly.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a non-adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Finance Bill [H. B. 9: 2022].
SECOND READING
FINANCE BILL [H. B. 9, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. This Finance Bill [H. B. 9, 2022] seeks to give effect to the revenue tax measures that I announced through the 2022 Mid-Term Review Statement delivered on 28 July, 2022. The measures are aimed at strengthening tax administration thereby enhancing revenue collection and also providing relief to tax payers.
The opportunity of the Finance Bill is also being used to amend other Acts that have fiscal, financial and investment implications. In summary, the Bill seeks to do the following;
With effect from 1 August, 2022, the Bill contains Clauses 2 and 3 which will reset the tax free threshold on local currency remuneration from ZWL300 000 to ZWL600 000 per annum and also adjust the tax bands to end at US$12 million from the current US$6 million per annum above which tax will be levied at a rate of 40%
I will now turn to the automated financial transactions tax. The Bill seeks to increase the rate of automated financial transactions tax to ZWL0.05 per withdrawal of ZWL1000 or US$0.05 for withdrawals of US$1 000 or less or 2% of the value of the withdrawal in excess of US$1 000.
The Bill, Mr. Speaker Sir, also seeks to increase the rate of withholding tax chargeable on cross border traders who do not produce tax clearance certificate from 10% to 30% with effect from 1 August, 2022 and this is a compliance measure, it is not a revenue raising measure.
I now turn to the Intermediated Money Transfer Tax (INTT). The Bill sets the rate for higher INTT and provides for the minimum amount below which INTT will not be charged as well as the upper limit of the INTT for very large transactions above a certain threshold. The Bill seeks to reset the value of the tax exempt transactions from ZWL1 000 to ZWL2 500. In the case of corporates, the proposal is to reset the maximum tax payable per transaction from the current ZWL1.3 million to ZWL3.3 million on transactions with values exceeding ZWL165 million. In the case of foreign currency denominated transfers, the maximum payable per transaction is reset from US$10 000 to US$20 000 on transaction values exceeding US$500 000.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill also seeks to extend the income tax exempt status granted to the Post Office Savings Bank (POSB) in 1997 to the Peoples Own Savings Bank as a successor to the earlier POSB. This was omitted in the past. It is just being regularised because the bank has been rebranded. So, there is a clause in the Bill that seeks to reset the local currency tax free bonus threshold from ZWL100 000 to ZWL500 000 with effect from 1 November, 2022.
In order to facilitate the registration of all members and employees for PAYE tax, there is a clause in the Bill which seeks to mandate the sharing of data on numbers and work permits between ZIMRA the revenue collector and the Department of Immigration.
I now turn to the IMTT tax; this is pertaining to definition of financial services. The definition of financial services in virtue of which providers of such services are subject to IMTT presently excludes authorised dealers with limited authority. Here I am referring to the money transfer agencies which are registered in terms of the Exchange Control Act giving these dealers an unfair competitive advantage over mobile banking services and other banking institutions registered in terms of the Banking Act. There is a clause in the Bill which seeks to extend the IMTT to the internal transfer of money by authorised dealers with limited authority registered in terms of the Exchange Control Act.
I now turn to the export tax on platinum, Mr. Speaker Sir. The Bill also seeks to suspend the operation of Section 12(d) which pertains to the collection of tax on exportation of unbeneficiated platinum and determination of value thereof of the Value Added Tax Act for a period of 12 months with effect of 1st January, 2022. This is in consideration of the work in progress to establish a platinum beneficiation plant. So we have suspended that tax in order to support the platinum companies which are making very good progress, Mr. Speaker Sir.
I now turn to claims on the import tax. The Bill removes the discretionary power of the Commissioner to allow tax invoices for purposes of claiming input tax that are submitted by a registered operator after the expiry of the statutory period of 12 months and this is an express request from the Commissioner who runs ZIMRA that such discretionary powers only cause a lot of headache and heartache for them and they would want to give up those discretionary powers.
I now turn to electronic currency. The Bill proposes to align the value added tax to the provisions of the Reserve Bank Act with respect to the recognition of electronic currency as legal tender with effect from 1 February, 2019. There was still a gap and discrepancy between the Reserve Bank Act, Mr. Speaker Sir, which this Bill wants to close, that gap between the Reserve Bank Act and the VAT Tax Act.
I now turn to the matter of capital gains tax. The Bill seeks to impose a capital gains tax of 40% on shares disposed in a period less than 270 days or 9 months from the date of purchase. This we introduce as a policy, Mr. Speaker Sir, to curb speculative behaviour on the stock market and I must say that so far it has worked. It was done through a Statutory Instrument and this Bill now seeks to enshrine it in law.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Bill seeks to impose Capital Gains withholding tax of 1.5% on the price of listed marketable securities provided they are held for more than 270 days. In other words, the status quo continues. This is from the date of purchase. In order to curtail speculative tendencies, there is a clause, Clause 25, in the Bill which also introduces Capital Gains withholding tax of 4% of the price of listed marketable securities provided they are held for less than 270 days. What this means is that before the expiry of 270 days from the period of purchase, we are proposing that the withholding tax of 4% be levied if the holder of the securities, the buyer then disposes before the 270 days, then the final tax is then imposed, being a final tax of 40% and then the 4% is deducted from that 40%. That is what this really means. So the 40% is a final tax imposed if one sells before the end of 270 days.
I now turn on the issue of payment of VAT in foreign currency. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is Clause 28 in the Bill. This clause for the benefit of VAT registered operators whose sales and purchases are transacted in different currencies will afford them the option to pay duty in foreign currency to facilitate offsetting of output and input tax in the same currency. This is with effect from September, 2022. That is the proposal.
I now turn to the issue of illicit cigarettes trade. The Bill through Clause 29, seeks to amend the section of the Customs and Excise Act providing for the procedure on seizure and forfeiture which will require that a contraband cigarettes must be destroyed instead of auctioned. We need to curb illicit cigarette trade. We think this is the way to do it.
I now address the issue of proliferation of unauthorised agents at the border post. Following the launch of the electronic single window implemented through the ASYCUDA system, it became evident that there was need to regulate the access to border posts of unauthorised agents. There is Clause 40 in the Bill which seeks to designate ZIMRA in the interim and I emphasise in the interim as temporary border post authority until legislation to establish such an authority on a permanent basis is enacted. ZIMRA as a border post authority will coordinate the cargo and also ensure orderly, efficient and reliable port services.
I now turn to the issue of mining royalties. Despite the provision for tax payment in the currency of trade, in the interest of promoting the use of local currency, the Bill will mandate that royalties should be paid in both local and foreign currency in the ratio of 50/50. This will pronounce it as a policy when I enshrine it in law through the Finance Bill. Clause 32 in the Bill seeks to amend part of the Finance Act 23 (4) concerned with the fixing of royalties on the sale of minerals. It seeks to increase the royalties on platinum to 5% and introduce a royalty of 5% on lithium as well and this is with effect from 1 January, 2023.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I now turn to Clauses 36, 37 and 38 in the Finance Act. This pertains to the Hon. Members present in this august House. We were trying to assist them. Before I just read what is in here in terms of my notes, I want to explain a situation. There are Members of Parliament who have been MPs since 1980 and they are still serving as Members of Parliament. So what is happening is that they are not young people. You have a situation where they keep winning elections. These Members of Parliament are prejudiced because they just keep contributing to the pension fund. They never even try to draw down from that pension fund.
So we want to correct this situation and it will help those very successful Members of Parliament who keep winning elections so that they are able to start drawing down from the pension fund after having contributed for so many years. That is what Clauses 36, 37 and 38 in the Bill is trying to assist with and that is all, but the current situation for anyone else who has not been as fortunate with their winning record, it still remains that you receive pension only after serving two terms as a Member of Parliament.
So the proposed amendment through this Bill to Parliamentary Pensions Act seeks to address deficiencies identified in the Act to the Parliamentary Pensions Act Chapter 2 (21). Currently, the Act does not provide for a pensionable age for Ministers and Members of Parliament. It mainly provides for the payment of pension on the qualifying service, which is the two year term as I explained. There is a Clause 36 which seeks to allow Members to become pensionable at the age of 70 years. The amendment also provides that any service rendered beyond 70 years becomes non-contributory. That is all we are trying to suggest. Hopefully, Hon. Members will find it helpful.
Currently, a person who is receiving any State pension and becomes a Minister or Member of Parliament is not to be entitled to receive pension during the period which he/she holds such office. The Act currently provides that any Member who contributes towards a second pension during the period of his/her initial pension is cancelled or suspended upon vacation of office. Their pension is calculated on the basis of the post they last held.
There is Clause 37 in the Bill which also include option to allow those pensioners who become Members in terms of the Parliamentary Pensions Act and are already on pension, to opt to continue receiving their pension without contributing towards a second pension. The new assignment would therefore be a non-contributory basis. There is a subsection on Clause 38 to buttress what I have explained. Clause 38 seeks to include a new section and provide an option for a Minister, Deputy Minister, Member of Parliament who is re-elected and appointed at a higher post than he/she previously held and is already receiving a pension in terms of that previous service to contribute to the Government pension on condition that the existing monthly pension payments are seized.
Upon vacation of the re-elected office, the pension will be re-calculated using the latest post the Member held. This option should only be exercised whilst a Member is still serving and it is an option. The new amendment will ensure that the Act is aligned to other statutes, thereby addressing a number of deficiencies in the Parliamentary Pensions Act Chapter 2 (21) as well as improving the welfare of the beneficiaries.
On Clause 40 of the Bill, we present revision of the amounts in the Revenue Act. The effect of these revisions is to revise monetary values in the various tax statutes. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to make contributions on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill that is before this august House. I want to make the submission with great respect to my learned friend, my esteemed friend, the Minister of Finance, that the general tone of all his Finance Bills is one that is targeted at trying to squeeze the water from rocks. So if you look persistently throughout the Finance Bill, there are increases in tax measures in an economy where the majority are unemployed and the majority are living in extreme poverty. The latest statistics from ZIMVAC indicate that over 60% of our people are living in extreme poverty. Also Mr. Speaker Sir, our economy is prone to recessions and depressions. If you have an economy that is prone to depressions and recessions, you must encourage economic activity to rise out of stagflation by creating disposable income for the citizens. Regrettably, the Minister does not do that in this Finance Bill.
I want to start Mr. Speaker Sir, with the issue of the proposed increase in the tax free bracket from Z$300 000 to Z$600 000 annually. If you divide Z$600 000 by 12 months, you get an income of Z$50 000. Fifty thousand RTGS hardly buys anything. The consumer price basket for a family of six in Zimbabwe right now is US$300. If you use Z$50 000, it is less than US$50. The tax free threshold of Z$600 000 becomes meaningless. I therefore propose that the minimum tax free threshold must be as close to the poverty datum line of US$300 which would take the tax free threshold to an income of at least Z$4 000 000 per year. That would offer some cushion and relief to the taxpayer. In this inflationary environment, the tax free threshold of Z$50 000 per month does not help or cushion anyone.
The same applies to the upper tax threshold. The Minister proposes to impose a punitive tax of 40% on any income over Z$12 000 000. If you divide Z$12 000 000 by the exchange rate, it is a very minimum amount of money. The net effect is that the average Zimbabwean, poorly paid as he is – because he earns slightly above the minimum salary, will end up being overtaxed by the extent of 40%. I urge the Minister to review both the minimum tax entry of Z$600 000 and the maximum tax entry before the punitive rate of 40% to increase the amount so that there can be real benefit to the people of Zimbabwe.
I have great concern with the mining taxation as proposed by the Minister of Finance. I believe that if the Minister is not captured by mining interest, then he is certainly a slave to mining interest. The first thing I find of major concern is the proposal to suspend by 12 months, the obligation of platinum houses to pay VAT on unbeneficiated platinum that is coming out of Zimbabwe. Ostensibly in his explanation, the reason is to give tax incentives to mining houses so that they can build a refinery in Zimbabwe. ZIMPLATS has been in this country for a period of 20 years and they have not built a refinery. Notwithstanding that, at the time that they signed their MOU with the Government of Zimbabwe, the Minister of Mines then was Hon. Dr. Sekeremayi, they were given massive tax incentive to build a refinery. Up to now, they have not built a refinery.
Over and above this, platinum is nickel. Nickel is part of the platinum minerals group that comprise of palladium, nickel, platinum, lithium, gold, silver and rhodium. There are about six groups of PMGs. We already have a nickel refinery in Bindura at Bindura Nickel Corporation yet consistently, all the platinum houses have refused to use Bindura Nickel. As a result, you have this anomaly that platinum houses in Zimbabwe, with the key culprit being Mimosa and Unki, are exporting raw platinum out of Zimbabwe. When they do so, instead of declaring the processed by-products of platinum ore, they are only declaring platinum. If you are a platinum miner, you are effectively a lithium miner, palladium miner, nickel miner, gold miner, rhodium miner and a silver miner. What these mining houses are declaring, they are just declaring one mineral. Zimbabwe is being prejudiced.
If you look at the global trends, the price of the six or so PMGs – lithium is actually selling more. There is a commodity boom yet they are understating what they are getting from lithium. They will tell us what they are getting from platinum is perhaps gold, lithium and rhodium. Meaning, instead of providing with further incentives as the Minister is proposing, of exporting PMGs in raw form, the Minister should actually be raising that tax so that there is an incentive of doing two things – of constructing a refinery and taking their ore to Bindura Nickel Mine which has got the capacity of refining platinum in Zimbabwe.
The second thing that the Minister does in this statement is that, he then says remember our accumulation model is based on extraction. All the minerals that we are extracting in Zimbabwe we sell outside. If you were to wake Cecil John Rhodes right now, he will not get lost by the political economy because we are still exporting raw wealth as we were doing in 1896. All the minerals which we are producing are exported yet the Minister, in his wisdom or more appropriately in his lack of wisdom, he is proposing that royalty should be paid 50% in Zimbabwe dollars and 50% in foreign currency, giving them a further incentive for stealing the much needed resources of this economy. There is no objective reason or rational basis of why miners who are earning in US dollars should then be given an opportunity of paying their taxes in local currency. It does not make sense at all unless the Minister is captured by mining interest.
The third thing I want to mention on his platinum regime is the royalty of 5%. The Minister proposes royalty of 5% on platinum. It is not consistent with international standards. Every platinum producing country has got a royalty of over 10%. In fact, given the fact that these minerals are not permanent, some countries including Australia actually proposed a wealth tax beyond royalties. If you take ZIMPLATS, last week in your absence, I spoke, in fact the Minister spoke about 26 million ounces of platinum that are on the 104 sq km of land in Selous that were hypothecated and pledged to the Chinese, given as mortgage bond as a result of a loan of 200 million dollars that we borrowed from China in 2006.
ZIMPLANTS is sitting on reserves confirmed, validated platinum reserves of 176 million tonnes. Whatever price you use, whether it is $1000 an ounce or it is $2000 an ounce; you are talking of billions of dollars.
These are already rich companies in terms of what they have underground. So, to continue giving them tax incentives when they are actually not properly accounting to Zimbabwe because of their continued refusal to construct a refinery in Zimbabwe which will enable Zimbabwe to know what it is getting from the gold that comes from platinum, the lithium that comes from platinum, the palladium that comes from platinum, the rhodium that comes from platinum and the silver that comes from platinum is simply not good enough.
I want to move to the next issue of this Bill and this is something that you will understand as a lawyer, Mr. Speaker Sir. The Minister proposes to criminalise the late payment of tax – taxes are a civil obligation. When you delay in paying taxes, there is an automatic 100% penalty in interest rates. There is already a punitive rate of interest.
So, why would you want to impose criminal liability on what is essentially a civil obligation. Our Constitution makes it very clear that individuals cannot be imprisoned for failure to honour civil obligations. It is in the Bill of Rights. Therefore, that proposal is not only unconstitutional, which is why I am surprised that the Parliamentary Legal Committee could issue a certificate of compliance when clearly that is unconstitutional. Perhaps it is the reason why I am not a member of the PLC despite the fact that you announced that I am a member of that PLC.
However, the bottom line is that a person cannot be imprisoned for failure to honour civil obligations. The payment of tax is a civil obligation. The Minister cannot impose a criminal sanction on the failure to pay tax which is a contractual obligation.
The next thing I want to raise Mr. Speaker is the issue of the creation of ZIMRA as a port authority. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development should not abuse the Finance Act to sneak in a major policy decision that requires public debate that requires also the discussion and cooperation of other interested ministers.
The issue of a port authority is a major issue whose primary responsibility lies with the Minister responsible for roads and infrastructure who is the esteemed Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Mhona.
The issue of a port authority requires an independent Bill which the citizens of Zimbabwe must debate as they are entitled to do in terms of the provisions of Section 141 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which requires public debate. Therefore, the Minister cannot step on the shoes of his brother, the esteemed Minister Mhona from Mashonaland East. The Minister cannot step on the shoes of Zimbabweans who are entitled to give their input on the ports authority.
So, put simply Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance cannot abuse the Finance Act to make major policy decisions that require debate and discussion by everyone else – he cannot do that. The Finance Act is a money Bill. There are certain privileges it has in terms of the Fifth Schedule of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. One of those privileges is that it is a Bill that we all know is fast tracked, that is why all the Standing Order requirements on the stages are short-cut when it comes to the Finance Bill. The Minister of Finance cannot use that privilege to abuse Parliament, citizens who have got an obligation and a right to debate.
The same applies to his proposed amendment to the Revenue Act. The Revenue Act, as you know in Section 4, sets up the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority. So, it is an independent separate authority. He is proposing to increase board members of the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority to 10 instead of 8. There is need for an explanation and that is why there must be proper amendments made separately to the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority which will be debated.
When you do the Finance Bill, you do not prepare principles that go to Cabinet for debate which if accepted by Cabinet, the matter then goes to the Attorney-General to draft the Bill; after that it goes to the Cabinet Committee on legislation. This Bill does not have that privilege. So, the Minister cannot abuse a Bill that his colleagues do not debate in the principles to sneak in major amendments.
If anything, you should actually be strengthening the Zimbabwe Revenue Act. One of the disturbing things which we have raised in this Parliament is that notwithstanding the Corporate Governance law which says that Permanent Secretaries cannot sit in boards, his own Permanent Secretary Mr. George Guvamatanga is a board Member of the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority contrary to the law.
Finally, I have a problem with the intermediated money transfer tax. The Minister proposes to make increase. Mr. Speaker, the intermediated money transfer tax is causing damages. A little transaction even a bank transaction, your bank balance is gone because of the IMTT. We know that it is a major cash cow but we urge the Minister to review downwards the intermediated money transfer tax codified in Section 22(h) of the Income Tax Act.
It is in his best interest because when citizens have greater disposable income, they will spend the money and most of us including Members of Parliament are low income people and you know from economics that the poorer you are, the higher your marginal propensity to consume. So, because we earn little, we spend our money in Pick and Pay hence you will get the money back through VAT. You must lower the intermediated money transfer tax.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! First of all Hon. Biti mistakenly referred to you as Madam Speaker but let me give credit to Madam Speaker for the way she handled the whole process of the Bill while you were away. I think it is quite encouraging to see that under your mentorship, she is actually getting much better than you and we are proud to see that as a House. She handled it well and we have so much confidence in her now and I think it is something worth mentioning. I think it also talks about SDG 5 of the empowerment and equality of women and it has happened. Secondly, let me also give credit to Hon. Biti.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why do you not do that when you make your contribution?
HON. T. MLISWA: Ok, thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not see accolades from my right about the good work the Deputy Speaker was doing. Hamunyare, hamunyare, aaaah.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, Good afternoon to you. I want to take this opportunity to add my voice to the Bill that is presented by our Minister of Finance. I have some few issues to comment on. The first issue that I want to comment on is on the IMTT tax regarding the CDF that we are getting. Whenever we will be buying outside there, a lot of money ends up going to this tax and in the process the citizens who are supposed to benefit from the projects that we are supposed to undertake with these funds, we end up losing out on the tax. So I wanted to propose to the Minister that out of his wisdom, if it is possible to exempt this fund from tax because that money comes from tax and it is being taken again through tax. At the end of the day we go round in circles and we will not achieve what we have planned as Government to achieve in terms of bringing development and services to the people.
The other issue that I also want to talk about is regarding the issue of general taxation in this country. If we look at it closely we will realise that the few people who are not dodging from paying tax are the ones you are continuing to overtax. My proposal to the Minister is that we need to find other means to widen our tax base and make sure that everyone pays tax. This tax money is the one that brings roads, clinics and social services to the people. So, when someone is dodging from paying tax and at the same time claim the services, where do you expect the services to come from? I think in this country we have a lot of tax dodgers in the sense that we have other people who end up being even richer than the country yet if we look at their tax returns or tax obligations we end up being surprised that they are not paying tax at all. How then do these people get away with murder? So I am proposing to our Minister to look at the best way to bring everyone into the net, whether rich or poor, so that at the end of the day we all enjoy the benefit of the tax in this country. Let me give you an example for the benefit of the Minister. We have other people in this country who are doing business outside the banking system. If, for instance you go downtown, those foreigners who are busy doing business demanding foreign currency and cash for all the transactions and the good idea that the Minister came with, of IMTT we will not catch up with them. So how best can we make sure that these people also get involved in paying tax because they enjoy the services of this country yet they do not contribute anything? We understand that in other jurisdictions you cannot have money either in your account or at your home that has not paid tax in one way or the other. Many of us have money in our pillow cases that never paid tax. Hon. Minister, my submission is that you need to really look into these issues and make sure that everyone is contributing what is due to this country. At the end of the day we will not have too many taxes.
My other submission is, I request the Minister to encourage ZIMRA to consolidate its taxes. We have a lot of taxes that are flying around where by the end of the day even the Hon. Members here have no idea how many taxes there are in this country. It would not be surprising that many of us only know the one that shows on our pay slips. The other taxes that we are supposed to be aware of or we are supposed to be promoting for corporates and individuals to be responsible, we might not also be aware of them. So I am urging ZIMRA to consolidate in their education programmes that they always undertake and ensure all Zimbabweans are aware of their obligations. It is very critical and some of the people might not be paying taxes because of ignorance or intentionally dodging or evading tax. I think our tax system needs to be simplified for the benefit of our people. If it is simplified then all of us will receive a bit of co-operation from our people in this country.
I want to come back again to the issue of wealth tax. We have been hearing about lifestyle audits Madam Speaker Ma’am. We are not really seeing much of the work in that area. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to encourage our Hon. Minister to push this area with vigour because we do not expect individuals having more money than the country. So, the only way to deal with that and to bring back integrity in the way we do business, and for us as Zimbabweans to respect our tax authorities, is when we all become accountable for whatever we have. We can only do that through these lifestyle audits. So I want to encourage our Minister to take that area very seriously because it is very important to make sure that this country’s wealth is distributed and benefits many of our people.
On the issue of mining Madam Speaker Ma’am, our tax laws are supposed to be tougher in that area. I am saying so because after our mineral resources are extracted, they will not come back again. So, we need to come up with a lot of work in that area to make sure that everything that is extracted in this country at least leaves something for future generations. I have been reading and seeing our Minister of Finance and Economic Developing activating the Sovereign Wealth Fund. I think we need to push for more money in that area so that our future generations also benefit from what is being extracted today because a lot of gold, platinum is being mined and there are a lot of things that are happening.
A lot of small scale miners are mining gold but how much are they bringing to the fiscus? So Hon. Minister, I think you need to think on how best we can bring everybody so that we benefit as a nation. We have an opportunity, the resources we have and everything we have in this country, but for us to have that integrity and for us to be responsible, I think we need you Hon. Minister, to help us in that regard by coming up with a tax system that includes everybody and makes sure that everything that I get, I must be responsible to pay tax on that amount. Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am for that opportunity, tinotenda.
*HON. R. NYATHI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me this opportunity and I want to thank the enlightenment that was shared by Hon. Biti and Hon. Raidza. A number of issues that I wanted to talk about have already been debated. So I will focus on the little that has not been said.
I agree with the assertion that everyone in Zimbabwe should pay tax but this tax, I want to give an example of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Once the CDF is deposited into the bank, we are advised that we have been availed ZWL11 million but upon completion of withdrawal of the funds, a quarter or a fifth of the funds will remain with the bank in the form of taxes. Let us be aware that everyone who is getting a salary that is deposited into the bank is paying tax which is shown on the pay slip, and furthermore taxed when withdrawals are made from the bank. My opinion is that when the Hon. Minister is coming up with tax brackets, he should put this into consideration as it affects the disposable income of our people.
I also want to comment on the issue of pensions. Unfortunately, when we are here, we do not quite understand the deliberations that take place at their level but what I want to say that is important is that our President E. D. Mnangagwa, when he gave the State of the Nation Address, if you remember, he mentioned that he would consider the pensions for Members of Parliament and how they can be addressed. This is an issue that has not yet been debated in this House. So in my opinion, considering what the Hon. Minister has said, it is important for him to also consider the different professions. If one is a Member of Parliament and one is a headmaster, the other a businessman, what it means is sacrifices have been made to serve the nation. So I thought the Hon. Minister would inform us that if a Member of Parliament has served for five years, the Member is eligible for pension. Maybe what they can consider are the modalities of when the pension will be due, whether at 60 or 65 years or as soon as the Member ceases to be a Member of Parliament. I think this should be considered because it is quite a critical issue.
There is a point that was also mentioned by Hon. Biti that most of our people are in the informal sector, and he is very right. Observations reveal that most people are into small scale businesses such as mining and agriculture; everyone is in business. So when we consider employment, we do not only consider the formally employed because as Zimbabweans, we are educating our children to become entrepreneurs in order to absorb those who have an employer-employee mentality. What we would want is for everyone to be in business in order to grow our economy. I thought as the Hon. Minister was speaking, he would give us recommendations on how those in the informal sector can contribute to tax and benefit from it including those in mining and agriculture because tax is the revenue that runs the country; it is the one that lubricates the wheels of Zimbabwe for our civil servants to be paid such as our defence forces, police force, prison service who look after us after we are incarcerated as well as our teachers. This is something that I was looking forward to hearing from the Hon. Minister. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me first of all commend Hon. Biti’s presentation; it was rich, and to the point. Once again, we see the brilliant mind he has. Again Hon. Raidza’s points that buttressed a lot of what is happening, most of the points that I was going to raise were taken out of my mouth.
Madam Speaker, let us talk about the IMTT. This is where we make a mistake by them talking about a surplus. You see we are excited about taking money surplus but a surplus does not work in an inflationary environment. This is when the Minister is then asked, you made a surplus, where did the money go? So you have a situation where you are comfortable with taxing in an inflationary environment with poor economy. We were very clear that the budget must be pro-poor and you cannot have a pro-poor budget when you are heavy on taxation. You cannot do that. So it is important for the Minister to look at it and go back to what it is supposed to be – a pro-poor budget.
I am glad that the Minister talks about rebranding the POSB but the details were not very clear. Who is POSB now? Who has taken over POSB and so forth? This was a people’s bank and it helps pensioners. I am sure MPs will agree that people have been walking distances to try and get their money which is not even enough for them to pay for their journey back. Having to centralise that is important and I think even when the POSB was set up, it was to try and ensure that people have access to their money and so forth.
Work permits for the foreigners – Madam Speaker, this is where money is made. You must incentivise companies that are employing locals. The reason why our local people are not employed by for example the Chinese is they are bringing their own. They must be heavily taxed so that the Zimbabwean who does not have a job is now on the dole using that foreigner. A dole is a system in England Members of Parliament is when the Government gives you a salary. The salary must come from those foreigners who are employed. For as long as they are employed by that company, they must also be taking care of the person who has not been employed. You having been to Harvard, to England, you understand the dole system. The dole system is meant for the people who are unemployed but the people who are employed who are foreigners are providing money. There is no point for Government to do that because we have the resources in this country. Why are we apologetic about the resources that we have? Why are we not maximising on the resources we have? We all wonder why we are poor. Why can we not build our own Parliament? We are endowed with resources and they mean nothing at the end of the day if we do not see them benefiting people.
The Finance Bill was responsible for repealing the Indigenous Act. What have you done to now replace it in terms of incentive? The 10% for the community is gone. The 10% for the workers is gone. The 31% for the Sovereign Wealth Fund – I am glad Hon. Raidza brought it up. What is the Sovereign Wealth Fund up to today? To me it is fine. Take that, repeal it and suspend it but let money go into the Sovereign Wealth Fund by taxing these companies through the resources that they have from us. Now we are zero-zero and we now have a situation which is those companies which were supposed to comply with indigenisation are no longer complying because the Government has repealed it but they had started doing it.
The former President was there at the official opening and there was the 10% to the community. I would like to know what happened to the 10% of Unki Community Ownership Trust. Where are the profits? They are dividends and when dividends are out, how much is going to the 10%? This is critical and when the President himself, the late R. G. Mugabe came up with this, it was the most intelligent and brilliant way to protect our resources and our people. So you had a situation where there is 10% share and you are given this money but that 10% again is the dividend. I would like to know how much money has Unki given to the community of Shurugwi in 10%. How much money has Zimplats given on 10% to the community? Blanket Mine, how much have they given? Mimosa, how much have they given? On top of that, it does not stop them from continuing with corporate social responsibilities.
When you are giving the community 10%, that does not stop you from building roads, hospitals, clinics and schools for the community. You are still making money from the community’s resources. Section 13 (4) of the Constitution is very clear about empowering local communities. What are they doing to comply with that section of the Constitution? What is the point of us passing laws here which at the end of the day do not see the light of the day? All these MPs in constituencies where there are resources people are benefiting from, 10% must go to the community. There must be a law MPs. We cannot be poor having to fight you when we have resources. Nyika inovakwa nevene vayo. Constituency yese ine hupfumi hwayo. Ngaidye zvayo. We do not have to question that. Why are we fighting you when the resources are there which God gave us? Let there be law that every company in each community must contribute 10% to the CDF. I am very clear to the CDF because the CDF is monitored. If Ministry of Finance officials want to be on it, we do not care but we are benefiting from our own resources. We are also watching exactly what is happening.
The community ownership trust had chiefs but at the same time, we know the capacity of our chiefs. Can some of them understand the monies involved? Why do MPs not sit on it yet these resources are in their constituencies? First oversight is the resources in my constituency. Why should I be talking other persons’ resources in whose constituency? The sugarcane in Mwenezi, there must be something which goes to the Constituency Development Fund. After that Minister, you and I will not fight. It would be fight for accountability, how much? Take from those who are making money, those who are having our resources so that they can put money into the CDF. We want to see that.
The issue of tax on the platinum was brought up by Hon. Biti and Hon. Raidza. The issue is that it is the precious group of minerals which is important, which I am saying the issue of beneficiation has been talked about for a very long time. There has been no beneficiation and all the facilities are here. It seems as if, and I will not lie, when the First Republic was there, they seem to have respected or were scared of the former R. G. Mugabe the late but with the current dispensation, whites are having a party and Chinese are having a party. We are busy worried about a doctor in South Africa telling a Zimbabwean that you must pay when they have been treated instead of us saying we are citizens in our country, why are you not fighting the Chinese on our resources? What was the struggle for? You are busy making noise but let us make noise where the money is. Why are the Chinese not giving us anything? Was the agreement for them to give us arms during the struggle and they also then rule this country. Then next we might have a Chinese president in this country yet the people are black. That is where we are going. Our resources are our resources; we do not negotiate on them.
The Manize that you are talking about Chivhu, people blamed the late Gabriel Mugabe that he was wrong. He did not unleash value. The value has been unleashed, what is in it for Zimbabwe? So it was better to keep it than to give to foreigners. Why give such a resource? Madam Speaker, I have done a finding on that resource and let me say this to you if you did not know this. It is sitting on two thousand hectares of a factory, 50 thousand people to be employed and they will be exporting USD20 billion worth of products per year. The furnaces that they are bringing in are as tall as the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. I have gone into it but what is in it Minister? It is the largest deposit of iron ore in the entire world but there is nothing for us. What do we get - a Parliament, an airport? Let us get USD20 billion a year and see what we will not build in this country. We are poor because we have chosen to be poor. We are poor because our laws are pro-foreigners and not pro-people of Zimbabwe. What were the founding principles of the struggle? Are we adhering to them or not? It is time you think about the Josiah Tongogaras, the Nikita Mangenas, the Joshua Nkomos, the Robert Mugabes, the Chitepos and many other greats of this country who went for the struggle. Surely, what is the point of the struggle if war veterans themselves have nothing from what they fought for? It cannot be a story of everyday - Zimbabwe is endowed with resources, what resources when you do not see the benefit? You cannot be proud of your father going to work when he cannot feed the family. He must be seen to be bringing bread, meat and sadza so kids eat. A good working father is seen by how his kids are educated, what they eat and health, et cetera. To us, where are we going?
So this whole issue is a serious one, how much money are they putting to the Social and Welfare Fund? There must be a percentage. This country is being mortgaged and there is no need for it to be mortgaged. Re-engagement and engagement had already started when the former President, the late R. G. Mugabe said we were going East; he was consistent. Then the Americans wanted to come now and the British wanted to come because they had realised that resources were going.
Russia, the $12 billion economy you are talking about, in my constituency there is Great Dyke Investment, which is mining the biggest platinum claims - (you know that) in the entire world. It has stopped. Yes, we support Russia, it is good, they gave us arms but now because we have got American sanctions and right now America is saying anything which you touch with a country sanctioned or not; so Russia is under sanction and Zimbabwe is in sanctions, how clever are we to be going to bed with people sanctioned? Munhu akasungwa mbira dzakondo, ndiye wamunoda kuti akubatsirei, iye akasungwa mbira dzakondo. Kungava here kuti tiri ku supporter vanhu?
Russia is going through a difficult time economically at the end of day. A good example is Great Dyke Investment, the Minister is aware of. They are borrowing money from Africa-Exim Bank. Africa-Exim Bank is not a Russian bank. To me, these are facts which are there, which we must realise. Let us not come up with political statements which will hurt us tomorrow. Tsvaga shamwari inokupa hupfumi, not shamwari yakasungwa mbira dzakondo. We cannot continue on that.
The 180 days Hon. Biti spoke about; the ZIMRA dry ports, it is an opportunity. Hon. Biti was correct, the Minister of Transport has cars which mann the airport, I think it is important for him to come up with something that will look at that. Money in royalties - locals are paying 50% ZWD, 50% USD. They are not generating money in ZWD, why are you being nice to them? Let them pay their workers in USD. Tax those workers in USD. They are the very same people who are pushing the inflation up. They have never seen a ZWD; they are sitting on billions of dollars in their accounts, what for? Let every company which is generating its income in foreign currency pay its workers in foreign currency and tax them in foreign currency. The Zimbabwean companies must be given a concession to say they must pay royalties in ZWD, tax in ZWD and then you will see that the rate will pretty balance at the end of the day.
I move to the issue of the airport smuggling. These cross border people are creating employment for you. The drug issue has gone up, how do we curb drugs when people are not creating their own employment, 30% from 10% to the cross border, why? This is the time you should be in force strategically. Open the borders, 30% encourages smuggling. ZIMRA is not known for revenue collection. ZIMRA is known for corruption. With smuggling happening, how much stuff is coming in, you know that. How much are we losing from that? To me, open the borders. Not only that, the ZWD again gains strength while we have more new USD coming in and why the prices are down because you would have opened the borders.
Whoever is selling cooking oil at USD5, when borders are open it goes to USD3 and goes to USD2. Everybody will live well because it is difficult to have an economy of the USD but at the same time you cannot also be using the USD yet markets are not ready. Do that and make sure to suspend duty on all food commodities. You will see how much – while we work on our ZWD, we are producing, et cetera. Right now the only thing we are producing is mining. Agriculture, the farmers are not going to produce; they are not being paid well. They are sitting on maize. I was in my constituency the other day; they said we are sitting on maize, what do we do with it? How can a farmer take maize and get USD90; the price of inputs has gone up. Open these fertilisers; let them get fertiliser wherever they are getting it from so that the farmers are prepared, so that when the agricultural season comes – what we want is production. Where the fertiliser is coming from is neither here nor there. What we want is production which ensures food security. So it is important that the borders are open. We have basically been encouraging smuggling. So we need to also deal with that.
I also want to talk about the issue of some incentives which have got to be given to the disabled. There are no schools for them. It is all talk and everything. Minister, it is about time you leave a legacy. Can we have a certain percentage from these companies going to the disabled? They have nothing, they are disabled, they are not able-bodied. You and I, able bodied at times forget them. It is only when we are in Parliament when you see people debating but by nature an able-bodied person never thinks of the disabled. Look at how mothers have done nothing. So there must be an incentive for a parent who is looking after a disabled child, they must be given money. Zvandiri kutaura, vana mai havachaindi kumunda nokuti vari kuchengeta mwana, haisi mhosva yavo, asi vanoda futi kufidha mhuri. Saka ngavapihwe mari. That can be assessed by the Ministry of Social Welfare to what degree can they get a job, can they not get a job? These disabled too, they want to be independent, give them some money; give them some incentives. Let it come from the resources that we have and so forth.
We do not have to build this country by any other means. May each company that intends to build a mining, to develop, first of all put an infrastructure. All this infrastructure we are enjoying, in Bindura, Shamva - the roads, this is the Rhodesian Government which gave a condition to any company. Before you set, before you mine, there must be recreations, hospital, housing, et cetera. So in terms of the housing, these mining houses can create housing, roads, hospitals and recreation. So to me, when you put that as a package, we do not have to look anywhere else, we just have to come up with laws that encourage that.
Now we are having problems with Chinese, the roads are being messed up, nothing is happening to them. I tell you the Chinese cannot build roads. So may you come up with that law that whoever who is to develop or to get resources from any area, first of all the infrastructure must be in place. They are destroying the infrastructure of Rhodesia, ivo pasina zvavaita. So we cannot entertain that. Members of Parliament, mota dzavo, you heard Hon. Chikomba’s road was in a mess. They are bringing their own tractors here and so forth.
Taxation on importation of cars - why are you importing cars when we have got Willowvale Motor Industries? Why are MPs not getting cars from Willowvale Motor Industries? It creates employment. So we must have taxation on that. Let us start from complete knock-down kits. They start doing their own thing and so forth. Willowvale Motor Industries did Mazda, Sunny, this and that. There were great cars which were made in this country during the 1980s; we had our own fathers, uncles driving a 504, which a Minister was driving. The engine was sound if you remember the 504, it was made in this country by the engineers of this country.
So engineers are here, we have got a fantastic education system which has produced scientists, great accountants, great lawyers, Hon Biti, great economists like the Hon. Minister himself. He is a well known economist from Harvard but it is not good to be known as a good economist from Harvard, when your own country cannot turn into Harvard. I want you Minister to be motivated by that, that you have all the resources in this country, may this country develop? The gold that you see, London was built by our resources.
I want to end by saying Hon. Minister, this is an opportunity for you to shine. Use the resources of this country, they want them, they lie to you that they do not want Zimbabwe, it is a sanctioned State, no. Go to South Africa in the morning, ndege inouya nevarungu varikuuya voinda kuma mines, vodzoka. So, if Zimbabwe is so bad in terms of publicity, what are they doing here? They will go and tell the world that Zimbabwe is not good because they want to be the only ones who benefit. So it is about time we benefit from the resources. In particular, in my constituency, I have got four platinum mines there. ZIMPLATS, Bravura, G. D. I and the Chinese one which Hon. Biti talks about; it is there too but the community is poor. Honestly what was the point of God giving us this great country with resources and we now want to blame everyone – sanctions. People should be told the requirements needed if they want to mine this gold.
I want to thank you Madam Speaker for your indulgence and I am sure the Hon. Minister, by the way you are well dressed in a pin striped suit. That is a beautiful suit. Thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to start my debate on this Finance Bill by looking into the memorandum of this Bill. Madam Speaker, if you check the memorandum of the Bill, it says that the amendments that are being sought by the Hon. Minister should give effect to certain fiscal measures which were mentioned by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development in the Supplementary Budget Statement delivered on 8th August, 2022.
The challenge Madam Speaker, is that there are several things which have been put into this Bill which have no relationship whatsoever from the statement which was given by the Minister in this august House. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development cannot, like what Hon. Biti has mentioned, bring in some of the amendments to certain legislation through the back door of this Finance Act. We do not understand what the mischief is, what the rational in bringing in an amendment of the ZIMRA Act by increasing the board members from eight to 10 is. What does that have to do with the supplementary budget statement by the Hon. Minister? Why do we not have the proper system of making sure that when it comes to the amendments of an Act, the amendment Bill is actually gazetted, you hear the views of the people and it is debated in this august House? There should not be any reason why we should actually do that.
The other example was also given by Hon. Biti, the Ports Authority. All those things Madam Speaker, create an impression that the Hon. Minister is trying to dribble the people of Zimbabwe and the Parliament of Zimbabwe. The belief is that Hon. Members will not have the chance or the time to read through the Finance Bill because as you are aware, the stages of the Bill are always suspended. So this urgency and this fast tracking, we then end up actually putting things that are not supposed to be in there. We are prepared Madam Speaker, to support the Hon. Minister on revenue measures that he had actually put to support the supplementary budget but what we are not able to do is to support him to do things which bring this House into disrepute.
Secondly Madam Speaker, the Hon. Minister is aware that when we passed the 2022 Budget, the exchange rate was 1:85. He knows that the auction rate has now just moved close to 500 but here is the challenge. The Hon. Minister fully knowing those facts then says no, for the tax free threshold, I am going to move from ZWL300 000 to ZWL600 000 when he actually knows that using your own auction rate, the rate has actually gone down by more than five times but you are now telling the poor worker that for you, even though the rate has actually gone down five times, but for you, I am just going to increase double from ZWL300 000 to ZWL600 000. It does not make sense. What we should have seen the Hon. Minister do was actually to increase the tax free threshold five times, five times ZWL600 000 to bring it to three million. That would actually make sense.
Madam Speaker, there is the issue of withholding tax on the border. I am aware and Madam Speaker I think you are also aware and the Hon. Minister should be very much aware of the fact that we have quite a huge chunk and it is unfortunate, you know with our people facing trying times in South Africa at the moment, it is actually very difficult, but do you know that a number of our people, a number of households are surviving because of the people who are working in South Africa. If you go to Matabeleland South and Matabeleland North, just when you move along the road, the number of vehicles ferrying goods destined for villagers and even people in Bulawayo and other areas , now I do not think it is right in my view to actually insert and move this to 30%.
The Hon. Minister was telling us today that no, this is more to do with compromise, but you see the effect of such a move is actually punishing the villager who has got his daughter or her son in South Africa who is sending him or her some sugar because the omalayitsha will just increase. They will just pass the burden from them to the consumer. So it does not help and this is something that I think is actually not right.
Madam Speaker, others have talked about the intermediated tax. The intermediated tax - even check here, he says the clause will reset the value of tax from ZWL1 000 to ZWL2 500. How is that possible that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development can do that when he knows that the value of money when we passed this Bill was around 1:85 and I am using the auction rate. I am not using the people’s rate. The auction rate now is around 480 or 500. Why should you not also move the minimum amount where the 2% tax is chargeable by about times 5, but what does the Minister do? The Minister goes on to just increase it to ZWL2 500. It brings in the point that Hon. Biti actually emphasised to say we tend to punish the poor and let the rich live at large because this one Madam Speaker, we need consistency. If the Hon. Minister is aware and knows that there has actually been a movement of the rate, surely it should also apply so that the people on the lower rung of the ladder will also benefit. I am just wondering what is it that you can go and buy for $2 500 in a shop because most of the basic things actually cost more than $2 500. Meaning that the old lady in Dzivarasekwa, every time she wants to go and buy cooking oil and sugar or her groceries, she has to pay the 2% tax and the net effect you will find that most of our people are now living on zvitsaona, small pieces of mealie-meal and small pieces of sugar that they can get from the street primarily because we have made it difficult. I think what Hon. Biti spoke about when it comes to mines and our minerals is an issue and I think Hon. Mliswa touched on it. I think for some reason, do you know this thing that we continuously say that we are rich and we have got a lot of minerals, I have actually told people that in 1980 when we got independence and I want to tell you the challenge that we have with this economy.
In 1980 when we got independence, do you know what happened? Our economy was exporting raw materials and I will emphasise this by saying in 1980 that was the year I did Grade 1. I then went and did my schooling, got employed, married, have children that are also grown up now. What has happened is that our economy is not transformed. The same thing that we used to do in 1980 and we used to learn that we are an agro-based economy, we have got our gold but we are still exporting that gold and that platinum in raw material.
By now Madam Speaker, this economy, we should be known that Zimbabwe exports a lot of jewelries. We would not be exporting gold in its raw form but we should be having a lot of jewelry coming out of this country but where are we? We are still where we were and Hon. Biti said that if Rhodes was going to wake up, he would simply say ah, things did not change. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - But you cannot even be saying that Hon. Nyabani.
Madam Speaker, there is an issue and I think the Hon. Minister needs to educate me in terms of the cigarettes, the question of seizure and the question of destroying rather than to auction it. Will this not result in higher corruption in the sense that cigarettes will be impounded and let us say ten tonnes are impounded but when it comes to the destruction, we may have two tonnes being destroyed and yet the other eight tonnes being taken back. I think this measure and I am not also sure what is the mischief that the Hon. Minister is trying to deal with but I believe that there is danger in going this route. I would have been happier if the Minister had increased the penalties for those people that are caught on the wrong side.
The other issue which I wanted to talk about is that I see the Minister has actually put an amendment pertaining to the pensions for Members of Parliament and Ministers. There are two issues that I want to bring to the attention of the Hon. Minister. I am aware that Hon. Members have to serve at least two terms for them to get pension but a Deputy President who has served one term is entitled to a pension. To that extent, I think it is important that a Member of Parliament that has served a term should be entitled to get a pension.
Secondly, I think we also need to have a clause to say an Hon. Member that has served and it does not matter whether I have served one year or two months as a Member of Parliament, I should be entitled without any other challenges to get my vehicle duty free. This thing of saying that an Hon. Member is recalled or an Hon. Member does something and then he goes out of Parliament, ZIMRA goes to try to fix that person is wrong. It is double jeopardy because what tends to happen is that you have got a political party that has got an axe to grind with an Hon. Member, you punish that Hon. Member by removing him/her from Parliament, you punish that Hon. Member by subjecting him/her to unbearable pressure from ZIMRA to try to take that car back.
In my view, I think...
HON. T. MOYO: On a point of Order Madam Speaker. My point of order arises from the long list of people who are going to debate. May I suggest that a Member should be given a maximum of ten minutes so that everyone will be accommodated?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sorry Hon. Moyo, we cannot change it. A member must debate for 20 minutes and that is according to our Standing Rules and Orders. Hon. Mushoriwa you are left with five minutes.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. That was my contribution in terms of the things that need to be sorted when it comes to the dignity of a Member of Parliament. It does not matter whether you have left Parliament and because you have served the people of this country, there should be some honour that is associated with you. The last issue that I wanted to raise, I want to believe that, Hon. Minister, Clause 33 should just be struck off. We should not allow a debate on increase of the ZIMRA Board in this Finance Bill because there are issues that are under the domain of ZIMRA and we believe that the ZIMRA Act needs serious amendments on a number of issues.
So this piecemeal should not be entertained and I want to end by simply saying when we come to the Committee Stage, I want to urge Hon. Members to restrict ourselves to purely issues that will answer or talk to the statement by the Hon. Minister pertaining to the supplementary budget. Anything else should be considered on its own merit following proper parliamentary procedure in terms of handling Bills. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: What I would like to point out is that most people in this country are working through informal employment and most of the jobs are not documented and that means we lose a lot of revenue through that way. If you look at other countries like Ethiopia, there is no way you can conduct business without paying taxes. At every corner people pay taxes and that helps Government to get revenue. That is where a lot of revenue is generated. A lot of people in Zimbabwe do not pay taxes when they conduct their businesses.
There is a lot of revenue leakages in the mining sector and I do not know what you can do Hon. Minister because there is a lot of potential for revenue collection from that sector. That has not been done and there must be ways in which Government can generate taxes from that sector. There are big companies operating in areas like Mwenezi which are making huge profits but they only assist the community by donating small amounts of money. If they are ploughing back to the community, it must be a reasonable amount of money. Sometimes they just pay school fees or just buy textbooks for children yet the schools do not have proper infrastructure. For example, there is a company called Bubi Valley Conservancy in Mwenezi, which generates a lot of money from hunting concessions yet they are not ploughing back to the community. They just pay for books at school. Is that the money that we can refer to as reasonable tax collection?
If you look at sugarcane producing companies, every year they make a lot of money yet they do not assist the communities at all. They even refuse to provide villagers with potable clean water. Even the road construction companies are making a lot of money but I wonder if they are being taxed adequately. After road construction they leave a lot of girls with children without a father to take care of because the contractor would have relocated. Government must look at how these companies are working and whether they are paying reasonable taxes.
A lot of schools do not have properly built infrastructure - why do we not allocate them schools to construct so that they can increase the amount of taxes that they are paying to Government? Some of these companies are keeping their foreign currency under pillows and they are not using banks. The bulk of foreign currency in this country is being kept at home and not in banks. A lot of foreigners in this country run small shops which generate a lot of money but they do not pay taxes and they do not keep their money in banks. Let us look at all those people making a lot of money in our areas and make them pay reasonable taxes.
HON. DR. MUTODI: I want to add my voice to the ongoing debate on the Finance Amendment Bill which seeks to ensure revenue and tax measures announced in the Mid Term Budget Review Statement take effect. I support the amendments and revisions made by the Minister.
Firstly, on the increase of tax free threshold on currency remuneration from Z$300 000 to Z$600 000 per annum is a good development in as far as it ensures that we cushion our workers against the effects of inflation. We need to ensure currency value is preserved. An increase in the tax free amount will increase broad money supply and this works against our efforts to ensure that macro economic factors affecting livelihoods are put under control.
On Clause 4, among other things, an increase of automated financial transactions tax, five cents per withdrawal will tighten money supply and help stabilise the economy. Research that has been done in the contemporary age has revealed the transmission mechanism of macro-economic variables on dependant factors such as economic growth, stock market performance and other economic determinants is really affected if we do not take cognisance of the effect of money supply and interest rates on the performance of the economy as whole. So, we really need to be conscious about the need not to increase our supply so as not to affect our inflation and other macro-economic factors.
On Clause 18, the suspension of tax on beneficiated platinum is an incentive to platinum producers and this will help them as they are in the process of adapting to the need to beneficiate our platinum. In my view, this move is business friendly and will actually be of help to economic growth endeavours.
On Clause 22, the criminalisation of non-payment of tax will go a long way in broadening Government income base and help the Government to finance critical economic activities such as the infrastructure development projects. The country will not develop if we have business people and businesses themselves which are involved in tax evasion practices. However, the issues raised by Hon. Biti on the need to ensure that we do not breach other rights and freedoms that are enshrined in the Constitution need to be taken into consideration. This is actually an important move in view of the fact that we have 60% of our economy involved in informal trade and this also spells the high degree of illicit financial flows. The Minister may need to come up with robust ways of ensuring that the informal sector is adequately taxed for it not to increase pressure on broad money supply.
The payment of VAT in foreign currency by operators will eliminate the need by operators to first of all liquidate their US dollar earnings into RTGS dollars as this has been fuelling the black market activities.
On Clause 30, port services have been plagued by agents who continue to circumvent Government policy and involve themselves in criminal activities for self benefit. So, the flushing out of unauthorised agencies at the border post will plug a smuggling practice. It will also control overpricing of services and also curtail fraud activities at the border post.
You find also Madam Speaker, that some of these unauthorised agents are working nicodemously with officials at the ZIMRA offices. Some of these ZIMRA officials are using those agents to be their front people in extorting and engaging in criminal activities. So, this clause is very important.
On Clauses 36, 37 and 38, the issue on pension for Members of Parliament and Ministers is critical as these actually offer national service that cannot be rewarded by a mere salary or an allowance. The non-contributory pension beyond the age of 70 years is important and therefore supported. However, it is my view as it is also a view of many other Members of Parliament who have added their voices here that Members of Parliament serving at least one term must be eligible for a pension as this service of being a Minister or a Member of Parliament requires a lot of sacrifice. We are not allowed to do any other work as long as we remain Ministers and Members of Parliament in order to make sure that we concentrate on Parliamentary business. For that reason, any Member of Parliament who would have worked for any period of time must be eligible for pension.
In conclusion Madam Speaker Maam, I want to support the amendments being proposed by the Minister in as far as they broaden the tax base of the Government and ensure that it is more efficient in financing its activities. As they promote a stable civil service salary, if we get more revenue, obviously that revenue must go down to the payment of civil servants. The Minister has indicated that about 53% of the budget goes to the payment of civil servants’ remuneration and this Bill will ensure that those financial resources are available.
The Bill will also ensure that money supply is curtailed, inflation is also put under control and finances are available for infrastructural development. It will also ensure that speculative activities that result in an unstable macro-economic situation is also brought under control.
So, I will emphasise that the research that has been carried out by economists will tell you that they need to ensure that our macro economic factors are put under control, especially money supply and other measures – these need to be put under control in order to ensure that our economy is stabilised and we achieve economic growth that we have envisaged to get by the year 2030.
HON. BUSHU: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to contribute to this debate. In your absence, the Speaker indicated that he was very happy with what you were doing in his absence. I happen to agree with him that being a lady Speaker is commendable, you make us proud as Parliament because there are many people here who are HeforShe champions and that also includes myself.
I would like to start off with an area that is close to me, it is about pensions. I think that the issue for Members of Parliament who would have served one term is something that requires serious consideration by the Minister. It is not right for an Hon. Member who has been called an Hon. Member for five years to end up wallowing in poverty. I have seen some Members who had served one term who are now living very uncomfortable lives
If they do not have businesses or other sources of income maybe from children and so on especially when they are much older as they leave Parliament after one term, maybe they got into Parliament at 60 or 65 years, so by the time they leave, they will no longer be having energy.
If one is a Member of Parliament and is doing their work, by the time they are done with five years, they will be very tired. So, we need those people to be protected. They would have served and would have done a lot of good work.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to look at tax. The major source of revenue for Government is tax but there is one thing that is very interesting, which is a trend that has taken over, that is Zimbabwe remains one of the countries that taxes personal incomes very highly. This has encouraged either tax evasions or tax avoidance on the part of individuals. I remember when I left university, the tax I was paying was 12,5% and whenever I got a pay slip that did not have a tax deduction, I would go to the Personnel Department and say I have not yet paid my tax. It was a pleasure to pay tax and I think the top tax rate was 25% at that time but at the moment it is 40%. It means that half of the money that I would have worked for is taken away and I do not think anyone likes that.
Is there a way of making sure that people enjoy paying tax? This is the reason why I am saying as a follow up to the discourse around increasing the tax base or increasing the revenue base, charging tax that is reasonable ensures that people enjoy paying tax and you can very easily increase the number of people paying tax. I am imagining those people who are engaged in personal businesses availing them to being taxed, availing themselves to contributing to the Exchequer. What we are saying here is we learnt something from Uganda where people on the streets actually enjoy paying taxes, those vendors. It is also because what they will be charged as tax is much lower and someone can enjoy paying tax.
In fact, if the tax levels are fair and one is confronted for not paying tax, they can actually feel guilty because they are enjoying the services that Government is providing in terms of water or infrastructure in general. What we are saying is this should actually be looked at. I have no problem with encouraging the Minister to come up with a lot of creative ideas to bring in revenue. The reason why we are having another budget review is because Government has run out of money and has to justify why they have to spend a lot more money. That again requires a lot of attention.
I would like to dwell on the IMTT. I am one of those people who support and supported the 2% tax but I am uncomfortable with the 4% tax on forex. Somebody confronted me about this issue and their calculation was by the time one accesses their forex, they would have lost something very close to 30% of the value they would have put into the bank. So, that person who is going to lose 30% of their value will not go to the bank. Unfortunately for us, this country is badly under banked. People are not taking their money to the bank. If we impose another tax, we will make sure that people run away from going to the bank.
For crying out loud, human beings are rational beings and if they are rational, they will not take their money to the bank. Firstly because they are taxed and are also charged administration fees by the bank which is supposed to give them interest for bringing money to the bank. So, all that compounded is causing us as a nation to be under banked. I would like to encourage the Minister to have a look at that.
Madam Speaker, criminalising failure to pay tax, I was listening to an argument earlier on that. I do not think that it would be a good idea to criminalise that. I think that the suggestion made earlier that we need to find ways of ensuring that tax is paid. We need to find systems that cause people to find it easy to pay tax. In fact, if I am a business person in Mutoko and I sell my things, pay sales tax and so forth, how do I find it easy to pay to ZIMRA say income tax for my employees? The system is not there. What we are saying is we need to come up with systems that reach out to the people. If one wants to pay tax, then it must be at arms’ length. If you do not have a system, then we will not be able to collect tax as we would have. I think it is a good thing if we could come up with a way of collecting tax that is friendly, affordable and accessible.
I would like to deal with the cross border to tax. I think that some tax must be paid but I think that 30% is punitive. Is it a situation where we have found that this withholding tax will reduce criminal behaviour on the part of cross border traders? If so, is there a friendlier way of ensuring that we collect the tax but we are not punishing those who are not of a criminal orientation or nature. We think that we cannot continue to punish our people. I know of many families that have survived because of cross border activity.
Even if we want to encourage manufacturing locally, maybe we could look at other ways of not punishing our own but also coming with incentives that cause us to manufacture at competitive prices. Our industry is not competitive and that is the reason why they make goods that are expensive, difficult to afford and what I am simply saying is let us cause our industrialists to charge much less. As a result, I always like to say business is where we get this money. Business is where we get the revenue. Whether it is income tax, excise duty or tax on profit that we get, it is because of business.
I would like to encourage the Minister to come up with incentives for business so that we grow our own businesses and we do not have to depend on imports that are treated badly like in South Africa. If we have our own ways of employing our own people, encourage business to bloom and be successful, then we would have a bigger tax base, a happier people and we will probably not need to have a supplementary budget in the years to come. With those words, I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. SANSOLE: A lot has already been covered but I just want to start with criminalisation of non-payment of tax. I think this can be counter-productive to criminalise tax payers for non-payment of tax. Let us find civil ways of recovering the outstanding tax. Also, it can lead to over-zealousness on the part of some ZIMRA officials. You will also probably find cases where people have engaged in legal ways of tax avoidance like claiming capital allowances which reduce the amount of tax that one should pay on their income or on their profits. It is like penalizing people for non-functional fiscalised machines. That also leads to people defaulting rather than compliance.
On pensions, in addition to what has been proposed that Members who have served one term be entitled to a pension, I also want to propose that Members be allowed duty free allowance for the purchase of one vehicle at least for five years after leaving Parliament. We have seen former MPs becoming destitute after leaving Parliament. I think that would reduce the level of destitution that we see.
On IMTT, I want to support the scraping of this tax on CDF because of the fact that VAT will have been paid already and it reduces the amount that we can allocate to our projects. All of us I think spent well over ZWL $200 000 on IMTT from our CDF allocation, which is quite a sizeable amount to take from CDF. The withholding tax of 30% on cross border traders can also lead to smuggling rather than increased revenue.
I also want to touch on another item that is in the Minister’s speech regarding the exemption of clay bricks from VAT. I want to support that. In addition to exempting clay bricks, I think the brick making industry must be reserved for locals. We have seen a lot of Chinese involved in brick making and I do not see why we should have foreigners like the Chinese being involved in brick making at the expense of local Zimbabwean youths. It is very painful seeing local authorities using bull dozers to go and destroy bricks that will have been made by the youths. That is very unfair. I think those are my contributions and I would like to thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I am happy that the Hon. Minister’s officials are hearing me because the Hon. Minister has taken leave a bit. The gold finger has returned.
The IMTT, I ask that the Hon. Minister looks at means and other ways of getting money as opposed to increasing it to 4%, in particular the issue that he proposes from the US dollar transactions. Why do I say this? When you want to register a cruise boat company, you have to go through 17 taxes. If you want to register a helicopter company, in particular the ones that overfly the majestic Victoria Falls and take our tourists, you have to go through 13 taxes. The local authorities and other arms of Government are using taxes as a way of raising revenue to meet their own ends. I propose that the Minister brings this to a screeching halt so that when somebody wants to register a cruise boat, they do not have to go through 17 taxes, otherwise they are shooting the gold finger in the foot and then keep looking for other taxes in other places to raise revenue. The taxes that are attributed to these local authorities and other entities should be directed to the Minister of Finance, reduce the taxes or the licences that are charged, 17 of them before you can register a helicopter or cruise boat company. He can reduce them to even three or five and takes one of them and gives the other two to the local authorities that are charging the hugeous, humongous, gigantic and copious amounts of taxes which should not be charged for want of a better word Madam Speaker Ma’am.
Secondly Madam Speaker Ma’am, the issue of the ports authority should not have ZIMRA preside over it. I want to concur with Hon. Tendai Panonetsa Biti, I say so because he is very fond of that name to say, ZIMRA cannot be a regulator and an operator at the same time … - [HON. BITI: I need protection Madam Speaker Ma’am!] - Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Biti should be the last person to request protection. He is so delinquent in his way of presentation, so treacherous in his speech and he is such a good public orator - if left unchecked, he will tear everybody apart. So I am just giving back to him.
Yes, I am just trying to look for what the ports authority’s ethos and values and its work is Madam Speaker Ma’am. I think I just lost it a bit. However, amongst other issues, is the revenue generation; the ports authority have to generate revenue, and also has to account for revenue collected. So if you then put ZIMRA which is supposed to account and both audit the revenue generated; there is no one who is going to police the police. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I ask that the ports authority gets to be the mandate of the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development for three reasons.
I will give an example, assuming we had a Ports Authority that has a River Port Authority which presides over what goes on in the river, dam or water body, we would also be looking at not only our boats bringing in revenue and otherwise. So the boats and all are all maritime transport and that is transport. We have got Limpopo Bridge; that one is between South Africa and Zimbabwe that we are supposed to collect revenue from everyone else who passes through that bridge. South Africa has been collecting revenue for the past 20 years, now it is an opportunity for Zimbabwe to collect revenue. So it is also transport related, If we leave ZIMRA to collect and run the ports authority, they are on the other side of the Limpopo Bridge. So transport, in my view, the Ministry should preside over the transport infrastructure so that the Hon. Minister can have optimum collection of monies coming from the Limpopo River. Similarly, on the Victoria Falls Bridge, I am just giving examples Madam Speaker Ma’am.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, there is the rehabilitation, revamping, sprucing up, maintenance and rejuvenation of the Beitbridge Port or the Beitbridge Boarder Post, in particular, to separate vehicular and human traffic. Madam Speaker Ma’am, VID is the cash cow of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. It is only fair, just and right for ZIMRA to be subservient to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development or to collect auditable, audit accounts or revenue collected by the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development as an audit of last resort, that is ZIMRA. So they cannot be the ones collecting money from the vehicular transport in the border post that has been spruced up by the Second Republic as we speak, to separate vehicular transport, and human traffic.
We have a border post second to none, and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development here will concur with me that three quarters of our budget comes in from the Beitbridge Border Post Madam Speaker Ma’am. He cannot regulate his own self in terms of financial collection. So let him audit the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and I ask that the ports authority be presided over by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for those three issues; one, so that they are regulating the transport, and I have spoken about the bridges. I have also spoken about the infrastructure that has been established in the Second Republic brick by brick, and I have spoken about the separation of vehicular and human traffic.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, the other issue that I want to touch on is revenue from minerals. There should be taxes that are taxed on quantified resources that are extracted in our country, and that should also help the country according to Section 13 (4) of the Constitution Madam Speaker Ma’am. I always want to refer to the law. I have been told in the law school that you do not know anything, and what you say is what has been said before by others who have gone before you. So the Constitution has it Madam Speaker Ma’am that our resources should benefit the locals in the places where they are extracted from.
So the issues of taxes, over and above what regulation the Minister of Finance and Economic Development should put in regulating, in particular ZIMPLATS, in the manner they extract and pay their taxes on our platinum resources; I am alive to the fact that the Second Republic has taken 26 000 hectares of land and has given it to KARO Resources to extract platinum, next door to the constituency where I come from. Aaah chimbomirai imi, vamwe vanga vachitaura ma40 minutes pano apa, mave kuda kuvaudza zvisiri izvo!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you are left with five minutes.
HON. NDUNA: Aaaah ndizvo zvandanga ndichitoziva, sei musingade kuti nditaure zvine musoro? KARO Resources Madam Speaker Ma’am, has been given 26 000 hectares in order to extract. When they do start extracting, I ask that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development pushes for community ownership, at least even 15%, and also community benefits according to Section 13 (iv) of the Constitution, and increases the chances of value addition, and resource beneficiation. We are held at ransom by ZIMPLATS. This amplats of beneficiating and value adding our platinum in South Africa, we are driving whilst blindfolded. There should be a ban on raw platinum export Madam Speaker Ma’am because it is called Platinum Group of Metals (PGMS), and what they then give back to this country is as though they have just refined platinum. There is gold, palladium, chrome and everything else in that platinum but we only get to get taxes of platinum.
ZIMPLATS Madam Speaker Ma’am, should be brought to a screeching halt. They are trying to influence chiefs in the former Community Share Ownership Trust so that chiefs can now make sure that they distance themselves from the 10% that is supposed to be given and the 15% that is supposed to be given to the community because the chiefs are signatories to that community share ownership trust. The Hon. Minister should watch and his eyes should be kept on the ball because our minerals should benefit our electorate. The reason why the electorate would want to vote some MPs who reside in those places that have vast minerals is because the companies have got too much protection from ministers. You will hear a Minister saying, let the board sit first before a decision of community share ownership can be reached. Madam Speaker, the law of the land which is the Constitution is supreme. Any law that is ultra vires the Constitution should be repudiated to the extent of its inconsistency and that is Section 2. We have got the Preamble, the founding values of the Constitution. They recognise our minerals as the endowment that we have in this nation. In my view the gold finger should concentrate on making sure that the ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth – we have more than 60 and we have only extracted 20 or less. We need to extract more and we need to get what we can and can what we get. We have to get what we want from what we have.
Madam Speaker, the people of Chegutu West Constituency have asked me to come and vociferously, effectively and efficiently debate on the Finance Bill. Madam Speaker, I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wish to add my voice to the Bill that in this House. I need to debate on a number of issues which I feel are very important, pertinent and highly indispensable. The first issue is contraband trade. In reference to the issue of tobacco products that are confiscated by the State that they need to be destroyed instead of auctioned. It is a brilliant idea because it is a way of ensuring that would be criminals may not continue or carry on with the bad habits of ensuring that they continue to export those products.
Secondly Madam Speaker, I need to consider and debate on Clause 9 which speaks about teachers in particular, that the members of the teaching fraternity will have school fees for their children paid by the Government. Thus walking the talk and I need to commend the Hon. Minister for ensuring that and also to respect the promises that have been given to the teachers so that it becomes a motivating factor, welfare’s factor in motivating them. I am sure you are aware Madam Speaker that for people to work very hard, they need to be highly motivated according to Beige’s hierarchy of needs theory.
I will also talk about the last, Clause 32 which speaks about increasing royalty to 5% on platinum. Madam Speaker, the issue of platinum is a hot issue according to my perspectives. I am saying so because 5% is too little for exports of raw materials. According to Kwame Nkrumah, when a country continues to export raw materials, that is one form of neo-colonialism. That is a new form of colonisation. It is the most dangerous and most insidious form of colonisation. What I believe in is let us encourage people and players who are into the platinum industry like ZIMPLATS and Unki to process those products locally. There are so many minerals inside, gold, palladium and so forth. Let us process locally. The issue of value addition is very important and in line with NDS1, it encourages processing of raw materials locally. We put value rather than exporting those minerals in their raw state. Personally, I think that the increasing of 5% is nothing. It brings very little as revenue collection measure. Let us add value to our minerals.
I will also talk about Clause 5, ‘Increases the rate of withholding tax chargeable to cross border traders who do not produce a tax clearance certificate from 10% to 30% with effect from 1st August, 2022. Those who do not produce tax clearance, in a way they are not honest. This is a kind of punishment, which I want to support that people who do cross border trading, I am aware cross border trading affects livelihoods. So many families depend on cross border trading and they are able to send children to school up to university. When people are not paying their taxes, then they are not of integrity. It is not a dignified exercise and that let the 30% be put on those people as a deterring measure.
Hon. Moyo having debated on clauses
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Moyo, please may you be advised that the debate on specific clauses will be done during the Committee Stage.
HON. T. MOYO: So, I will debate on traders or those business people who use two currencies for trading; foreign currency and the local currency. They need to pay two separate taxes for products. I need to commend the Hon. Minister for a job well done. What those business people used to do, they were disadvantaging the State for collecting revenue. They would sell products in USD, then remit tax in RTGs. So we want to encourage the Ministry officials to ensure that there is a mechanism of monitoring so that whoever is engaged in that practice should maintain payment of taxation in the currency that is used for the payment of goods and services.
I will also talk about companies that are given contracts by the Government, who are delaying payment of taxation, that 30% will also be levied on those companies. I think that is a prudent way of again encouraging companies to pay their taxes on time and also to be honest in their business dealings with the Government.
Turning to the issue of pension for legislators, that is another very important issue. A person may be a legislator may be having five terms in office and would wait until perhaps he gets to 80 years for the Member to be eligible to get the pension. I think it is important for the Ministry to ensure that even after two years you can still use your pension to acquire property whilst you are a Member of Parliament. I will give an example of what obtains at the University of Zimbabwe (UZ). The system that was there at UZ when I was there, if one has pension that has accumulated, for example one has perhaps saved about US$100 000, you can use that pensionable pension to acquire property whilst you are still a serving member.
Let me give some specifics - my first house, my pension was around US$120 000 around 2008. We approached Old Mutual to give some kind of a loan - so you use your pension to get that loan and you will acquire property. So we want to encourage Hon. Minister of Finance to allow Members to use whatever pension you would have acquired so far to have property. Even if one is booted out of office after one term should be entitled to pension, not just gratuity. Gratuity is not a pension. Let us have one term, you get your pension; two terms you get your pension but 70 years Hon. Minister is quite a long time. Why not say even when one gets to 60 or 65 years, then one can get a pension.
Finally, I need to commend the Hon. Minister for the proposals that he made in this Finance Bill, which I believe are very important and that will make Zimbabwe become a very progressive country in terms of how we manage our finances. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Members for their contributions to these revenue measures from the Finance Bill. Let me start with the observations by Hon. Biti about the tone of these proposals that perhaps they are all focusing on increases and so forth. I want to say that, that is not correct. In our view, this is quiet balanced. There are areas where we had sought to increase certain things that we believe would go a long way to raise revenue but also have lowered taxes and thresholds in certain areas where we believe that this will provide relief to our hard working citizens.
On the tax free bracket moving from Z$300 000 to Z$ 600 000 which is a 100% shift, we believe this is appropriate. We did our research and spoke to various employers in the private sector as well as the public sector itself. We feel that this was adequately argued for based on the facts that we came across as we did our research. While on that, there is also the argument that perhaps we should move the tax free threshold to ZWL3 million - that would be too high. We would lose revenue and may in fact fuel inflation, but the role of taxes some of the time is not just to raise revenue but also to control expenditure behaviour.
I will now switch to the issue of the platinum tax where we have suspended it for 12 months. This was done basically as an incentive to investors. We received representation from the PGM’s Platinum Group Sector and foreign investors who felt that beneficiation tax was actually retrogressive and discouraging their investment and their expansion and we have got evidence of specific cases. We then consulted widely beyond the mere representation by the affected companies and then we also asked the IMF Fiscal Affairs Department in Washington to research this matter for us about the proper fiscal regime for the platinum group of companies. After a month or two, they came back with an advisory note basically saying that they also are of the view that this beneficiation tax was in fact retrogressive and discouraging investment, including just mere expansion from the already existing investors. They even proposed that we rather suspend it, drop it and perhaps increase the royalty.
So we mulled over this and we came to the view that this made sense. Let us suspend the beneficiation tax and then increase royalty to 2.5% to 5%. Thus, it was a very systematic process that we were involved in and we are very happy as Treasury to share the advisory note from the IMF because we believe that it was based on sound analysis but we are talking about a 12 month’s suspension, Mr. Speaker Sir and we stand ready to review and drop the axe after 12 months if we feel that we are not making progress on the promises made by these companies. Of course I do appreciate the Member’s contributions on this issue. It is not a small issue and we do not take it lightly.
On the royalty issue, the payment of royalty - 50% in Zimbabwean dollar and 50% in foreign currency – when this was announced, we said that this was the way to promote the use of the Zimbabwean dollar. Again, Treasury consulted with the Central Bank, we consulted with players in the market and we consulted widely with experts who felt that this could be a credible measure for promoting the use of the domestic currency. We were also convinced by that. So as a result, we thought this is something that we should implement.
On the issue of royalties of 5% that perhaps this is too low, maybe it should be increased to 10% and so forth, look we have just moved from 2% to 5%. Who knows we might get to the 10% next year or some other year that you propose. It is a progression. As I said, we will evaluate and see how effective the policy that we are implementing or proposing, how effective that is in first of all raising revenue and in catching up with the rest of the region in this regard. By the way, that paper from the IMF, I think we will answer a few questions about how we stack royalty to the region and we are hoping to share it with Hon. Members.
On the issue of criminalising late payment of taxes as opposed to just implementing the civil penalties of 100% and so forth, Mr. Speaker Sir, let me give you a vivid case. Currently, we have a case or a situation where banks owe ZIMRA US$6 million which they have not been remitting. This is VAT payments from customers who bank with them and what we have to do in the interim to balance our books, we end up having to borrow as Treasury just because a specific company has not remitted. So we have been garnishing books. They are still following the same type or behaviour. It does not seem garnishing books eventually is effective as well. So we feel that we should move to the criminalisation route. This is a credible threat that will cause companies to behave.
The issue of ZIMRA being designated as a temporary port authority, we are just trying to solve a problem. Currently, there is a problem. It was there last week, it was there last year, it is there today and it will be there tomorrow and we are just trying to solve it. We currently do not have a port authority, but if we temporarily have ZIMRA acting that role, which role we will then drop, they will have to relinquish that role as soon as the port authority is put in place. That is all we are proposing. We are trying to solve a problem. The Finance Act should also be used for solving problems in the same way that we are trying to solve other problems that Members have highlighted.
I now turn to the issue of ZIMRA Board. ZIMRA is a revenue collection agency for Government. Its capacity should be strengthened and part of that capacity relates to its governance capacity. We feel that a larger board, just adding two additional members only two, will still go a long way in strengthening the capacity of the board. They need to create very effective board committees. At the moment, with only eight board members, it is not a sufficiently large board size to create the right committees for them to be an effective agency collection entity.
Then on the issue of the IMTT increase, you know the IMTT tax is also partly a tobin tax in this regard. I think some Members will know what that is, which is a tax designed to slow down speculative activities and when we increase this rate to 4%, it is partly that. We are saying that if the withdrawal is above US$1 000, we should make sure that we shift that behaviour from the use of United States dollars to use of domestic currency so that we have a balance, otherwise the domestic currency will be overly dominated by the United States dollar. We want both currencies to be used but we want to make sure that we create a fairer even playing field because we know the Zimbabwean dollar is what is giving the country its much needed competitiveness and has allowed us to do a lot of what we have done as Government in terms of whether it is infrastructural development but also just assisting companies with their competitiveness and it shows with the amount of goods that they are producing which are on our shelves at the moment which did not exist when my Hon. friend here was Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I withdraw that. That was a joke Mr. Speaker Sir. He often pokes, so I have to poke him as well.
Then I turn to the Hon. Raidza, again on the IMTT tax that perhaps we should direct some resources to the CDF and so forth. IMTT tax contributes to the entire pot of Government but also in the past, we have designated to dealing with certain road infrastructure, social protection. We had not as well targeted it towards CDF, but these are proposals and why not, but that is just an administrative issue that we could put in place. There is no harm in that, but on the IMTT charges, when money moves from the Central Revenue Fund (CRF) to whatever account, we do not charge IMTT tax. It is only beyond that then the tax gets paid for normal transactions and that is normal. Otherwise beyond that, we do not know which money is fundable, where is it going. We cannot start making exemptions beyond the transfer into the designated account from Treasury or from the Central Revenue Fund.
On widening the tax base, Hon. Raidza is right, like all the other colleagues who have talked about the need to widen the tax base. If I can say a couple of things here – part of the role of the IMTT tax is to be able to net in quite a wider base as long as they are transacting electronically, including part of the informal sector. That is one strategy and I think that strategy has worked quite well. We introduced a location tax last year where we were saying that for those who are operating informally but under a roof, under a property that has an address, which property is owned by some landlord, that landlord we will designate them as tax collection agent. That is what we approved here and that has gone a long way in netting in some operators who are operating in the informal sector under a known registered address owned by someone else.
If they are using cash, it does not matter because there is a presumptive tax that we are imposing on that. So these are some of the strategies. We are aware of what other countries are doing for example Malawi and Ethiopia. We will copy from them and keep improving. This is a very good point and we just have to keep widening the tax base rather than taxing those who are already paying more. Perhaps let us widen and I fully agree with that.
By the way, I went down to Kaguvi Street yesterday to see for myself. It is a very thriving street in terms of SMES who are operating there. I checked with a few of them and they are paying the presumptive tax and so it is working. I am not saying that all of them are netted in but it is really beginning to work. On ZIMRA consolidating their tax and so forth, I accept this and it is an important point. We should consolidate taxes and there should not be multiple taxes. We should just simplify the tax code. On the wealth tax, lifestyle audit and so forth, I agree that we should accelerate and make sure that those are done and it is normal as we progress in our tax practices that lifestyle audits ought to be done.
On the mining sector, I am trying to answer it regarding the issue of the beneficiation tax versus the royalties and so forth but there is a broader issue that was raised by Hon. Nduna and Hon. Mushoriwa who also raised it regarding a community investment by these companies, making sure that they look after the commodities where the resource is being extracted. I endorse this and it is a very good point. Going forward, we can think together to see how this can be enforced. May be there is specific rule or levies that we can come up with.
I must note in the current Acts the Rural Councils Acts for example. There are certain levies and taxes that mining companies ought to pay at that local level and they are specific that it is by mineral and by the size of the exclusive prospecting order or claim wherever they are mining from and these need to be enforced. I am just highlighting just one of the areas but of course which we can do more about enforcing certain standards and revenue heads in terms of supporting local communities.
On the sovereign wealth fund, I am very happy to come back to Parliament later at some point and give a Ministerial Statement as to the assets that currently sit under the sovereign wealth fund and I agree with the kind of enthusiasm Hon. Members have, who feel this is an important fund. We feel the same in Treasury and in Government. Hon. Nyathi said everyone should pay tax and it was a message about broadening the tax base. There is the issue about the pension for Parliament. There is a proposal that I have put forward and there is broader contribution from Hon. Members.
Let me start with the latter – the broader contribution from Hon. Members that they want to be pensionable after one term. That is a proposal and I am not opposed to it, but from the way things work, we just need more time and consultation even among ourselves and agree on how to structure that. I would suggest that for that specific amendment, let us work on it and come up with an agreed position for the November presentation. That is what I propose because it will take time to agree. I cannot immediately stand up here and say I agree if these things take time. It has to do with actuarial valuations and so forth. It can be quite a technical process and so, I would not want to agree without further consultation on this issue...
HON. HWENDE: On a point of Order Hon. Speaker, we have no quorum.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon. Hwende, thank you very much for raising that point but what we have to do at the moment is to ascertain whether we do not have the quorum as per your point of order. So we need to ascertain. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members, we have got 58 on virtual and 20 in the House. That means the question of no quorum is overruled. So go ahead Hon. Minister.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: There is the issue and I just want to say what I need to say and Hon. Members can disagree on the issue of accessing your pension at the age of 70 if you have been contributing all these years. We were just trying to make sure that an Hon. Member who has been successful, it could be from Hon. Mushoriwa or Hon. Nduna, but they have been so successful and they keep winning elections. They ought to be able to access part of their pension. We can argue about the age 70, but it is a principle that we think will assist Members of Parliament. The issue about one term versus two terms is another issue. For now, I wanted to clean that one up and bring you to speed.
Hon. Mliswa went through the issue IMTT as well. Perhaps let me not go through that. Of course he went to the issue of surpluses and so forth. I just want to say for the record, we did not make a surplus last year and we are not likely to make a surplus this year and actually we have deficits. I will share with the Hon. Member as to what those figures are. The issue of POSB is an innocuous issue, they rebranded but we just want to make sure the current legally branded entity is able to assume the privileges of the previous entity. The mandate of POSB has not changed. The issue of foreigners paying higher taxes and work permits - that is a thought. That will be drastic for investors to say there is another issue that has been included in Zimbabwe’s rules which will discourage investment. Let us just reflect and be careful on that.
He talked about mining companies supporting communities, this is a point I made and certainly I support it. Let us all think together about the other ways to enforce that kind of support to communities.
The cross border issue and the withholding tax of 30%, here we are looking at those who are not registered but who claim to be commercial traders because the value of goods that they are trading in is above US$1000. There is a threshold of US$1000 and above. We want to make sure that you register. This is a compliance measure and we are not trying to raise revenue. We are just saying register if you claim you are a commercial trader, why are you not registered and where is your ZIMRA certificate? That is all. It is not meant to punish anyone at all. It is meant to formalise those who are informal. We have all been yearning for more and more formalization, at least from the contributions I have heard over the years.
On the incentives for disabled, perhaps Hon. Members may have forgotten that last year I rose and you concurred to say let us extend the tax rebate for the youth employment by companies to the disabled. That is already in place. What we should be doing now is going to check if these companies are in fact complying. If Hon. Members want to propose something further, I am all “ears”. Let us support our disabled. For what it is worth, I have very detailed data on the state of disability in this country which has come out from the Census. I am very happy to share with Hon Members what that date looks like. We have data district by district. We know the exact number of people who are disabled in each district so that we can then target and tailor make our solutions.
Hon. Mushoriwa mentioned the issue about ZIMRA as a border authority. I have tried to deal with this issue. Again on the board membership size for ZIMRA, again it is just to build governance skills. On the tax threshold that it should be increased, I tried again to answer that.
On the illicit cigarette destruction, let me pause there and say what we found out and this is evidenced based proposal. What we found out is that whenever an auction is conducted on these illicit seizures of cigarettes, we found out that these cigarettes still end up in illicit hands. That is what we are trying to deal with. What we are trying to do is just to remove these from circulation and destroy them. We are not saying that there are no leakages, that is why we have the police to arrest people. That was the reasoning behind it.
On the issue of cars for recalled Members of Parliament, the interpretation of the Administration of Parliament is that the car is a benefit or tool of trade for a serving Member of Parliament. Therefore, once a Member is not serving for whatever reason, this tool of trade is then withdrawn. That has been the practice. Certainly, we did not make those rules. That is something that Parliament needs to look into. We can think together on that, maybe consult the CSRO and we mull over this together.
Hon. Mutodi was very supportive overall on these measures. I thank him for that support whether looking at the tax bands, IMMT tax and its roles, suspension of taxes of the mining sector as an investment incentive, dealing with non-compliance in the withholding tax from Government. Surely, we cannot be the ones who need to suffer because someone is withholding what rightfully belongs to us as the tax collectors.
On the issue of pension, he also emphasised the issue of one term as opposed to two terms. This has been well made and well argued by Hon. Members but let us think about it together.
Hon. Bushu again mentioned the issue of one term in terms of pension as opposed to two terms. He also said personal incomes are too high. Back then the argument was that the tax rates for Zimbabwe are too low. I know that argument very well because I was a young economist and we were the same age group when we went through university. It kept increasing over time until we got to the current 40%. There is also an argument that it should have been increased and it was increased. Anywhere were we can reduce taxes, we will make sure that we do so as long as it does not hurt the ability to raise revenue and it promotes right types of consumption as well as investment.
When we say we want to compare with countries in the region, we need to try to analyse to say what is really the effective individual tax rate? That analysis has not been done properly. We cannot get the information we need easily from any individual. We should do that study to find out whether the individuals have other incomes; is it really the 40% or 30% they claim is their tax or something lower. The same applies to other countries so that we can then compare.
Hon Nduna’s contribution regarding IMMT tax and the need for protection, I will leave that to the Speaker. On the 17 taxes that one needs to pay to register a boat or helicopter, that is a lot of taxes. We will seek to rationalise these. I will engage ZIMRA so that over time we rationalise these and simplify the process. On the issue of ZIMRA being a port authority, it was temporary and I tried to argue but let us think together.
On mining companies supporting communities, I fully agree. Hon P. Moyo, thank you for the support. For example Clause 9 regarding implementing the proposals that teach us ought to be supported through the payment of schools fees up to three children in State schools and Government schools. She highlighted all the issues that the Bill is seeking to push forward to improve our revenue standing and discourage speculation. You highlighted Clauses 32 and 5, I really appreciate that.
Tax for traders will be 30% withholding tax to encourage registration or formalisation. The tax on companies that are supplying Government widgets also need to comply. On the issue of pension, let us debate and see how best to support Members of Parliament. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really want to thank those who contributed including those who just listened and those who applauded. I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE), the House adjourned at Twenty-Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 30th August, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
VISITORS IN THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE’S GALLERY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to acknowledge the presence of members of staff from the Parliament of Zambia in the President of the Senate’s Gallery – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear].
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE SENATE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 4 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE STATUS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS AND ACCESS TO ANTE-NATAL CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN IN PRISONS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and access to ante-natal care for pregnant women in prisons.
*HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to deliberate on the report that was presented to this august House especially the issue of women who are incarcerated in jails who give birth in jail and some who take their minor children with them to jail. Such children are equally incarcerated despite that they are innocent. This is quite a critical issue regarding women who commit crimes and the prevalence of women who commit crimes is now high. So we need to look at the welfare of their children and those who are born in prisons. It seems as if they are also incarcerated. What crime did they commit?
Madam President, when our jails were constructed, they were designed for men. They were not designed with women and particularly, mothers in mind but they were designed for men only. There is no provision to accommodate mothers and their children. The accommodation is not palatable and the onus is upon the Government to make sure that jails are not meant to punish but to accommodate prisoners. When prisoners are in jail, they must be rehabilitated. For children who go to jail with their parents, it seems as if they are also serving jail terms.
Government should allocate funds, proper housing and teachers so that children get proper education in jails. They also have hygiene and good health care in the prisons. The different needs of women are not met in jails. You find that some people commit crimes not deliberately but it happens but they are suffering instead of being rehabilitated. When women are in jails, they must have their toiletries like soap, petroleum jelly and other reproductive health needs. Government should therefore allocate enough funds to the welfare of women in jails.
Finally, Madam President, what I believe is that even for young children who are 2 – 4 years, they should be moved, for example to ECD schools where teachers who are trained would empower them with elementary education. It is important that such children are given elemental education whilst being given access to their mothers. This allows children to grow knowing that they have parents. To be alienated from their parents affects them a lot and this causes a lot of problems. For instance, a small child would know that being in jail is for those who commit crimes.
Secondly, most schools which are found in prisons are not of good standards, so it is important that children grow up with their peers because they learn from other children through primary socialisation. You find some even taking up some behaviours and customs which sometimes affect their mental state. You find some not developing properly because of being incarcerated. So, Government through this august House, should ensure that female prisoners have their welfare issues sorted out. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I stood up to say most of the Hon. Senators in this august House deliberated on this issue at length. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projects.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to add a few words on the motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Mabika. This motion is very important because of the seasonal variations due to global warming. In the past, we knew that rains would come in a specific month and we would prepare for our farming season. In that regard, we appreciate what Government is doing in constructing dams so that we ensure food security in Zimbabwe. However, these dams are not enough and through this august House, I would like to implore Government to support the construction of more dams before the rain season comes. This will ensure that we do not lose water by letting it flow to the Zambezi River then into the oceans. The dams will act as reservoirs and enable people to participate in income generating irrigation projects. This will ensure food security.
Zimbabwe is blessed because we have different seasons, both winter and summer, which means we can cultivate throughout the year if we have water to irrigate our crops. So, I would like to say that Government should continue with the water and sanitation project. We appreciate the President’s initiative of construction of dams. We have seen His Excellency moving around the country, officially launching these dams and handing them over to communities.
Zimbabwe is not a desperate nation where there is lack of food but we have access to agriculture. Right now we have a winter crop which is under the winter crop production. This means that this year we are bound to have a bounty harvest of wheat through the dams which are irrigating that crop. Some farmers are busy with the winter crop right now and some are even partaking in the growing of groundnuts and others are even sowing maize to be sold as green mealies. We know a lot of farmers are doing that through irrigation projects linked to our dams. So as we work on our annual budget, I would like to urge Hon. Senators to support the funding of construction of dams. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. I would like to applaud the Second Republic led by His Excellency, President Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa for constructing dams throughout the country, hence the increase in the number of dams in the country. More irrigation schemes are also now present around the dams. In other areas there were dams; for instance in Mashonaland West, we had Mbire and Mazvikadei Dams. These dams have a lot of water but there were no irrigation programmes. I am not ashamed to say that farmers are even competing in producing wheat. I believe that Mashonaland West is doing well in terms of irrigation projects through the different dams that have been constructed.
We have some areas which are under A1 programmes and you find that there are irrigation programmes that are running. Some of these projects are up and running. This means that the addition of wheat, mealies and other garden projects are continually increasing because of access to water. Water and agriculture go hand in glove. If rains do not fall, farmers now have an option of using tap water or reservoirs. We appreciate these efforts of building more dams around the country. Even in Matabeleland Region, there are places where water is harvested so that it is channelled to the City of Bulawayo; even Morton Jaffray waterworks in Harare has added to the volume of water which is being channelled to Harare; even water which is being drawn from Chivero should come to Harare to augment the water reserves. The pumps and other machinery should be serviced and maintained so that people have access to water. At the same time, irrigation programme should continuously multiply.
Dams to together with the Pfumvudza initiative through Government efforts, this was taken to the people and some are already busy farming. Some are targeting to start harvesting by Christmas. This is quite pleasing because of water that is coming from dams. When there is enough water, agricultural produce will grow and projects will flourish. Government benefits from agriculture instead of importing grain from outside the country.
Zimbabwe does not think about importing grain but I am happy that our grain silos are full because of the different projects and programmes that are running in the country through the Second Republic which should continue working in such projects like the water and sanitation project which has seen the sinking of boreholes around the country. I want to applaud the commitment of our farmers in Zimbabwe and their hard work. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE STREETS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on vulnerable children living in the streets.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I would like to add my contribution to this motion although it was extensively debated by fellow Hon. Members but I feel I have one or two issues to talk about.
Firstly, street kids are the poor homeless children under the age of eighteen who live on the streets of towns, cities and villages. These children make a living out of the streets. Some of them are street living, street working or street families but their problems are the same. They have an uncertain supply of food. They miss out on education and medical treatment. They are at high risk of abuse and illness.
Most importantly, I would like to look at the causes – why these children end up on the streets. Number one is domestic violence. Normally, if there is domestic violence in a family, the children are not at peace and they end up running away from the family. They find it better to be on the street where they enjoy relative peace. Domestic violence is the physical aggression between the parents and physical punishment to the children. All these end up sending the children into the streets.
The second reason why children end up on the streets is unemployment of the parents. Normally if there is unemployment, the effects of unemployment are quite mental. There is lack of food, clothing and children end up dropping out of school. There is a high likelihood of divorce between the parents and when parents divorce, the children end up living on the streets.
Poverty is the chief cause of why we end up having many street kids on the streets. By poverty, we are merely saying that there is inferior or insufficient supply of food. When there is insufficient food in the family or home children end up moving into the streets in search of food. They end up stealing or begging from the tourists and this is a shameful thing for our country.
The other reason why children end up in the streets is family disintegration. The moment divorce happens, the father and mother take different directions and the children end up with no one to take care of them. Due to the hardships faced by Zimbabweans, in particular in this country, although street kids are everywhere. I will give a particular example of our country. There are a lot of hardships. Gone are the days when relatives used to take care of relatives’ children; they leave them to go astray, and where do they go? They find sanctuary in the streets where they rely on begging, stealing, and even working. They end up doing menial jobs like picking up litter in front of shops, cleaning shoes and vehicle windscreens in exchange of a Dollar or ZWL10.00.
Mr. President, neglect is one of the most serious causes of why children end up in the streets. Parents simply neglect their children. Like I said earlier, some are street working and street living, there are also street families. The parents will be sitting somewhere on the corner of the streets while the children are begging and selling a few pieces of items to eke a living.
Mr. President, for us to come up with solutions, we need to seriously interrogate these reasons. The other one is abuse. Some parents have a tendency to abuse their children. It results in increased fear by the children, feeling guilty of their deeds, that is why they end up running away from home, distrust and they end up asking, is this father or mother? How come I am being treated in this manner? It is better I run away and stay in the streets. The streets are where the children seek peace, and because of peer pressure as well, it becomes interesting to live in the streets. They sleep without blankets but at least it is enjoyable. They enjoy relative peace.
Mr. President, there are quite a number of things that I feel we need to do as a country or as Government. I know previously and I would like to commend the Government. At one time, some of these street kids were taken to certain farms where they had a good living but because they were used to street life where they earned a few individual dollars; they ran away from the farm because they had to work on the farm and just feed. So, nine out of ten chances are that they run away, and this has been tried before. There are quite a number of things that I will go through that I feel can be done.
Number one, we need to improve the livehoods of our people. The moment the lives of our people improve and there is food on the table, chances are that children will not run away into the streets because they have enough food, clothing, they go to school and have medication. Number two, we need to strengthen bonds that are shared by our families. Nowadays we have my proper family, meaning my wife and children. A couple of years ago, we used to say mwana wababamunini mwana wangu, even mwana wepa next door mwana wangu but it is no longer happening these days. This is why a lot of children are found roaming on the streets. We need to strengthen rules and maybe come up with very stiff sentences to those who abandon children. Some of the children Mr. President that you see in the streets were just abandoned by the mother and she flew to South Africa. She goes to Gokwe or Bulawayo. If those people are found and are apprehended, I think stiff sentences must be given to them so that we do not have such type of children in the streets.
Mr. President, it is also important that we come up with programmes to cater for these children. Normally, if they are grouped into smaller groups, enrolled in a proper school, some of them can even adapt to that and leave what they used to enjoy in the streets. You know, the Government is struggling but probably if they come up with just a small budget, and start small, we cannot group them all in a single day because they are countrywide. We start small because as they get to the age of 18 years old, they are now street fathers but still they have nothing to do; they cannot work and still want to steal. So if some of them are enrolled in colleges where they do courses that are hands-on, I think that would lessen the issue of streetism. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President Sir, for affording me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate. I would also like to appreciate the Hon. Senator who tabled the debate.
Mr. President, there are a lot of embarrassing things that are being done by our children. You will find some children begging at street intersections, and other corners in towns and this is demeaning. There are different mechanisms for addressing that. His Excellency the President tasked different Government departments’ responsibilities towards the welfare of such children. There are departments that are expected to stand and produce results; which means that in the National Assembly, there are a number of constituencies that are responsible for resolving different challenges. After deliberations are made in the Lower House, you find different views being brought to this House.
Mr. President, Harare constituency and other rural constituencies where there are councils that are expected to take their responsibilities seriously. As I am speaking, His Excellency President E. D. Mnangagwa started a very noble initiative that he introduced to Zimbabwe which is the ‘Clean-up campaign’ in different provinces. We need to work hard so that we tidy our provinces. I would like to explain the issue that I was talking about regarding these children. Every constituency that has such children, we need a constituency that will look after these children, and every constituency should review their operations so that our children are looked after, and their welfare is addressed. I know that when this fails, then councils should go to the Executive so that the Executive addresses these challenges.
Mr. President and fellow Hon. Senators, you will find our children, young girls falling pregnant, and some dumping their children in toilets, some in towns, some in bushes. We call nurses who take such children and they are brought up by the Social Welfare Department. There is need for laws which speak to the fact that pregnant girls should be monitored. The law should monitor what happens to pregnancies especially in communities. Women are fountains of information. They share information, particularly cases of baby dumping and should be addressed. Mr. President, there should be punitive laws.
Let me also talk about mothers. These are our specialists. Everyone is brought up by a mother. Sometimes you find mothers assisting the young to give birth because they have maternal instinct. Some express concern because they do not get to have children. Those who want to look after children sometimes are found taking care of children who are dumped by their mothers. Government has also a responsibility towards looking after children. Taking mothers to jail is not a crime but there should be clinics, crèches, nurseries and schools for the young children. There are a lot of women’s organisations which assist women. For instance, there is a women’s bank which is a culmination to deliberations that were made through the need for looking after their families and children. I usually urge women to look after children who live on the streets. At one time, there were laws that allowed children at 16 years to give consent but the law says a girl can get married at 18 years. In the streets, you find girls falling pregnant at 12 years and giving birth. No one cares about that and no one looks after the street children who give birth at that tender age. These are things that need to be looked into. Laws need to apply even to such children. The law says that a girl can be married at 18 years only.
Mr. President, you will find 10-year and 12-year olds falling pregnant and giving birth but no one makes follow up on how they live and what happens to them. The law should apply. You will find some, due to desperation, dumping their children because they are also equally children and cannot look after other children. There is need to search for records in clinics of where these children are. Even our sons who impregnate girls and dump them, some change their locations and others relocate from one farm to another. The law should be applied to them.
We also have modern technology where we look at DNA. Investigations into rural areas sometimes can reveal what might be happening. For instance, if a girl was pregnant and the community does not know where the child is, there is need to ascertain where the child is. Even when parents are asked, they have such information. Some children do not have parents but have a history of where they come from. Mr. President, such issues need to be looked into so that the children’s welfare is considered. In towns or even in rural areas, there is need for creating shelters to accommodate such children, whether through pooling of resources by business people or other departments. It is important that these children are looked after as they grow up. This can contribute to the human capital of the nation.
In the farms, we find some desperate children and as fathers, it is important that we look after our children. Some would be drug abusers, some smoking and others abusing different substances. We need to manage their lives. As mothers, you find our children being loafers, sitting on roads, some impregnating young girls and others are cohabiting. Such children can be rehabilitated. Mr. President, we heard that some of our relatives who live in other countries, for instance in Rwanda, there is clean up campaign which is not limited to few people but it is an event which every citizen of Rwanda participates in. Different constituencies should work hard and it is important that everyone plays a part in the national clean-up campaign. Even those who live in rural areas need management. They do not refuse but we need to clean. Our children should also partake in such national initiatives. It is important that we identify a farm where our street children can be brought up.
In our political party, we educate young children so that they understand the different ideologies which might assist them as they grow up. I explained that children who grow up in jails sometimes are seen playing and participating in different activities but the important thing Mr. President is that they need to have good companions. Without good companionship you find some leading one another astray.
This is a critical subject which we need to address as a nation. Even those who are in constituencies should be assisted. As Hon. Members, we need to deliberate on these issues and request for a certain percentage which should be allocated to the rehabilitation of such children in our constituencies. Our business people, women, banks and other departments should pull resources towards that challenge. Mr. President, I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st August, 2022.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. KAMBIZI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Four Minutes past Three O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 25th August, 2022
The National Assembly Met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONNECTIVITY CHALLENGES
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that connectivity challenges that have been experienced of late by some Hon. Members are mainly due to gadgets that need to be updated. Hon. Members are therefore kindly requested to avail their gadgets for updating by the ICT officers who will be stationed at the Members Dining Room from 12:00hrs every sitting day until the completion of this exercise. In addition, Hon. Members are urged to periodically update their gadgets software to ensure that they perform optimally.
PETITIONS RECEIVED FROM CENTRE FOR NATURAL RESOURCE GOVERNANCE AND MR. C. KAHARO
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that on Thursday, 18th August 2022, Parliament received the following petitions:
- From the Centre for Natural Resource Governance represented by Trust Maanda beseeching Parliament to exercise its legislative and oversight roles on whether the Environmental Management Agency (EMA) is properly executing its mandate of monitoring environmental management and compliance with regulations by Redwing Mine.
The petition was deemed admissible and has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Mines and Mining Development.
- From Mr. C. Kaharo requesting the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education to intervene and assist in reviewing apprenticeship wages to reasonable levels to enable them to meet their daily requirements.
The petition was deemed inadmissible as it does not contain a prayer that is within Parliament’s mandate. The petitioners have been advised accordingly.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker ma’am, I rise on a matter of national importance, which is on the conditions in the public hospitals in Zimbabwe. I was at Parirenyatwa hospital recently. My grandfather is not feeling well; he has prostate cancer. They are forcing you to buy bandages, syringes and even painkillers. The public health system in Zimbabwe has collapsed. Yesterday in this august House, we heard from Hon. Matewu that in Chipinge, they are having to take citizens bitten by dogs to be treated for rabies in Mozambique. It is a national crisis, there are no dialysis machines, no basic equipment in our hospitals and only yesterday in South Africa, we were treated to a video clip of the MEC, the provincial Minister for Health in the Limpopo province Dr Phophi Ramathuba chiding Zimbabweans that they are being treated in South Africa, what is wrong with their health system in Zimbabwe. So we ask that the Minister of Health and Child Care be summoned to this august House to present a status of our health and how the Government is going to deal with this urgent issue. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Biti. I ask the Government Chief Whip to convey the message to the responsible Minister so that he will come to the House as requested by Hon. Biti. I also wish you grandfather a speedy recovery.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker, my point of privilege is in connection with what the previous speaker said. Truly, we are seeing that medicines are scarce in the country. I will go back and say what can we do as leaders since the Government does not have enough funds and they do not have any source to borrow from.
In Parliament Madam Speaker Ma’am, we need to work together and look for a way forward and the reason why we have shortage of medicines. We need to find out the reason why we are incapacitated. Some of us might have gone and closed our sources of medicines so that we do not have enough supplies because they no longer supply us. Some went and asked for sanctions. They should go back and tell the same people that we are now working as one, so that they remove the sanctions.
Madam Speaker, we must not continue crying for the same reason because we are responsible for the lack of medicines. My colleagues closed the sources of medicines, that is why we are having shortfalls and not because we cannot buy the medicines. The country does not have adequate medicines for sure that cannot be disputed. We have heard and we know who is responsible for that. We all know them and they called for sanctions so that medicines will not be supplied. They want people to get sick because they say the people will still vote for them. That is the reason why I am making this contribution so that we work together as leaders of Parliament in Zimbabwe. We need to go back and tell them that gone are the days we used to fight. We are currently representing our people so that they have enough medicines. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Matangira. There are some things you are expected to do in this House that makes us to live well in our country. If some of us are busy putting spanners in the works, we will not move forward. So let us work together as one.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that Orders of the Day. Numbers 1 to 17 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day on the Order Paper have been disposed of.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Eighteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Today I rise to move for the adoption of the motion in reply to the Presidential Speech. Before I do so, I would like to express my deepest appreciation and gratitude to all the Hon. Members who contributed to this very important motion. It is worth noting that a number of Members contributed to this debate as their maiden speeches and their impact was felt. Thank you very much.
However, it was not possible to get responses on some of the critical issues raised in the debates as expected and this is a learning curve for us to correct our weaknesses. We hope to do much better in the next session. I therefore move for the adoption of the motion.
Motion that a respectful address be presented to the President of Zimbabwe as follows: May it please you, your Excellency the President. We, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe, desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech, which you have been pleased to address to Parliament, put and agreed to.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order with regards to the motion which has been adopted. Hon. Mutambisi was correct to say that certain issues were not responded to. If it is the State of Nation Address, any Minister who is mentioned must respond. It is important for Ministers to understand that His Excellency sets the tone and Ministers must respond but they did not respond and this does not make sense. It is important to have a list of the Ministers who did not respond so that you can announce it in this House and it is on record that these Ministers did not respond to the State of the Nation Address. It means absolutely useless if the President sets the tone and the Ministers do not respond. Can we have a list of the Ministers who did not respond so that they are announced in this House?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. The list of the Ministers who did not respond will be availed.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF AUTOMATIC ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the provisions of Standing Order Nos. 33 (6), 53, 66 (2), 68 (5) and 147 regarding the Reporting Period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, Automatic adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. and at Twenty-Five Minutes past one o’clock pm on a Friday, and stages of Bills respectively be suspended until business relating to the Supplementary Budget has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE
Second Order read: Resumption of Committee of Supply: Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure.
House in Committee.
On Vote 13 (Continuation of debate):
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Hon. Chairman, for the Local Government, I think Hon. Minister, this is a very important section. I just want to impress on our water infrastructure. Most of the local authorities have infrastructure that was built during the Smith era. I will give an example for Marondera Municipality. Their waterworks were built in 1975 when the population was just 20 000 but now we are reaching 100 000 people and still using the same infrastructure.
I think this is a perfect opportunity to put more money into the expansion of waterworks for councils like Marondera and several others across the country that do not have sufficient water infrastructure to ensure that people get clean water. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Chairman, the Minister of Local Government and Public Works is on record saying that the money that was meant for devolution for Harare is going to pay for the Pomona Deal. Is it included in the Supplementary Budget and why? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. MARKHAM: Hon. Chairman, may I ask you to control the House please?
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): Order, order please Hon. Members!
HON. MARKHAM: Hon. Chairman, on Local Government, I would like to just seek clarity – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Chairman, a point of clarity here. Are we debating the Local Government Vote including the inter-Government fiscal transfers or not, or is it inter-Government fiscal transfers is going to be debated as a separate entity or debated as a stand-alone? I stand guided.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, please look at Vote 13, Local Government. Look at that and debate.
HON. MARKHAM: How are the inter-governmental transfers going to be voted or discussed? – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Kwete!] – They are not? Thank you but we will get a chance to debate the Appropriation, I just want clarity.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to just draw your attention to the Local
Government budget on Programme 2 under Mass Transport. It is now called Urban Transport Advisory Services. I note that the budget has overrun by nearly double for the first six months, in fact closer to triple. However, the Supplementary Budget Appropriation for the next six months is the same as last time. How does the Hon. Minister expect to control when they have already subsidised urban transport three times more than they budgeted for originally?
In addition, could the Hon. Minister also tell us what he is budgeting as inflation for the next three weeks? I thank you. – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Please repeat!] – You were talking to each other there and not listening. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - You were both late as well to Parliament. You have no intention to listen to anything we say... – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Dzokorora kani?] – Handidzokorore!
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order.
+HON. MOKONE: Hon. Minister, did you give Government departments that owe local authorities funds for services rendered? In my constituency, they are saying they do not have funds for servicing water pipes because the Government departments owe them a lot of money.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! Hon. Chair, to be honest with you, I have conceded to the fact that human beings are on earth but God uses all of us. We have tried to fight for this to be heard, so, today may you just concentrate on Vote number 2 and we go home because all this is nothing for us.
Vote number 2 is what Parliament is for, so I move that we pass everything else and we go to Vote number 2. If we do not do that, we will be tired by the time we get to Vote number 2; which is our own. For once, let us think of ourselves, therefore, let everything else sail through because we are tired of this – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Hon. Matewu talked about water infrastructure as to whether we have allocated enough budgets for that. First of all, I must say that the issue about water infrastructure in the urban areas is also an issue for the local authorities themselves. They should be collecting their property user charges, put the right systems in place and collect user charges which can be used for developing water infrastructure.
I recall at the City of Harare many years ago, when we used to trade City of Harare bonds which were gate instruments issued on the back of user charges that were collected and those bonds could be serviced, the loans in the form of bonds were then used for the development of water and maintaining water infrastructure.
So, this is a shared responsibility and local authorities must really get their act together in this regard. We urge them to, but obviously Government does land support from time to time on these issues. We have worked hard as Government to provide raw water, building dams around cities and we continued to do more.
Hon. Madzimure, the issue of Pomona – this is not for the supplementary budget. From what I have heard, just like him, not officially, was that the city council will make use of its current allocation. I do not know, they will advise me but we have not made provision in the supplementary budget though it should be taken care of in the current allocation.
Hon. Markham; he refused to repeat the question, I only heard half of it Hon. Chair but I think he was talking about the budget for the transportation subsidy around ZUPCO. Of course, the cost of transportation has gone up because fuel has gone up, cost of maintenance has gone up, so the supplementary budget speaks to that.
Hon. Mokone asked a very important question as to whether we have set aside budget in this Vote 13 to support Government departments that owe local authorities for services provided. That budget is provided across the respective ministries, not through the Ministry of Local Government but we have done that and they will be able to clear their obligations.
Finally, on the proposal from Hon. Mliswa, I agree with it, he feels that we have done a good job in the proposed Appropriation allocations for the various ministries that are remaining and perhaps we should just focus on Vote 2. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order! I agree with the proposal raised by Hon. Mliswa however, on the issue of the Local Government, there is one key issue which the Minister of Finance should address.
We understand roads that are being rehabilitated by the Central Government. The Government has suspended financing of road construction. As a result, there is a problem in local authorities where those roads are not being completed. So, I would want to hear from the Hon. Minister that when are they going to lift the suspension of funding the local contractors who are rehabilitating the roads? It is giving a lot of problems not only in Harare but in all other areas.
The Minister of Finance, may they consider through the Cabinet to also allow private players to come in local authorities? You are talking of user fees on waste management, why can the Government not come up with a policy that allows local authorities to partner with private players and focus on refuse collection? This lessens the burden on the local authorities because they will not be concerned with repairing the fleet for refuse collection and what is needed is a backing policy. Currently, residents in Harare are paying extra money to private players but the policy can come in a sense that will not deprive local authorities of the needed revenue. Maybe they can collect a dollar or two per household and the other money goes to private players. It is happening in other countries and we can see our cities being cleaned because the private players will be dedicated. Their contracts will be signed in terms of performance. If they do not perform, the Government can cancel the contracts. These are some of the things which we think the Minister of Finance, through the Cabinet, can come up with those policies and we lessen the burden on local authorities. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Member for the two contributions. He referred to the suspension of funding for roads in the urban areas. We did not suspend funding for roads in the urban areas. We are just subjecting these contracts to a value for money process to make sure that Government is getting value for money. This is a good thing that Government resources ought to be used properly and we should discourage pricing on the back of speculative parallel market exchange rates and forward pricing and so forth. It is just a value for money process kicking in and likely so.
The second point which is a good point, and I like it where he is referring to public-private partnerships where local authorities can partner with the private sector. We are already allowing that. It just needs to be subjected with the normal approval processes through ZIDA. I am aware that in Bulawayo there is PPP around parking services that went through Cabinet and ZIDA processes. That is allowed and we encourage it and I agree with the Hon. Member.
Vote 13 put and agreed to.
Vote 14 - Health and Child Care - $62,210,527,000.00:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Chairman, there is one issue that I need the Hon. Minister to clarify. One of the things that we have noted from the Supplementary Budget – Hon. Minister, I need you to listen not to do what you did when Hon. Markham was speaking, he was not paying attention. The Auditor General’s 2021 Report which was given to the Hon. Minister and he failed to present it to the House but was then done by the Speaker, does raise some fundamental issues pertaining to various ministries and even this Vote we are talking about, in respect to the abuse of fund accounts. The AG says that $771 million was transferred unprocedurally from fund accounts to cover for appropriations and that most of the fund accounts are not being properly managed. The Hon. Minister, in his maiden budget to this august House, had made an undertaking that he had given a directive that all fund accounts except those that were backed by an Act of Parliament were going to be closed. Four years down the line Mr. Chairman, those fund accounts are still in existence and they are not performing as per the manner in which they are supposed to be performing. Worrisome is the finding by the AG that these funds are being taken willynilly. I want to find out from the Minister whether ministries that are abusing fund accounts to cover appropriation expenses, what remedy or mechanism is there for the Hon. Minister to censor such ministries? We cannot have a situation where there is a double dipping from the fund accounts and from the appropriation funds that have been given by Treasury. That is my only request for the Hon. Minister to clarify.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank Hon. Mushoriwa for that intervention. He wishes to know what sanction or perhaps regulatory practices we should be putting in place to regulate those ministries that are moving money between fund accounts and appropriation accounts. He is right. This is not allowed. It is an abuse and we do not condone it as a Ministry. Going forward, I can assure him that this will stop. We are aware that some of the accounts perhaps are in place due to the fact that donors also want to see some kind of counterpart funding and so forth for programmes and Ministry of Health hase a bit of donor funding. We are aware of this imperative where donors what to see that there is some commitment for a specific programme but it does not mean that the fund should be abused. His insinuation is that we must clamp down on this and I agree with him. We will clamp down on it.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The issue by Hon. Mushoriwa is; you had said that they must close and they keep functioning. My recommendation is for you to go back and see whether they have taken that instruction from you because some of them have not closed and they continued after you promised this House that they would close. Four years later they are still functioning.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you very much. I will close them.
Vote 14 put and agreed to.
HON. T. MLISWA: Remember we have not done Vote Number 2.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mliswa, we at Vote 15 now.
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, but we said we will suspend it and I am also rising to say may you lift the suspension and can we deal with it now, Vote Number 2. I am the one who brought it up to be suspended waiting for the Speaker to be here and I am coming back saying can you lift the suspension. Let us debate Vote Number 2. Those who have the energy for the other Votes can stay behind and do it. I want to focus on Vote Number 2 which had been suspended.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mliswa, we agreed that we are going to come back to Vote 2 after finishing, so we are proceeding.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am worried that others are tired here and by the time we get to Vote Number 2, they will not have energy.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mliswa, please take your seat. Let us proceed.
Vote 15 – Primary and Secondary Education – $103 924 500 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 16 – Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development – $35 036 000 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 17 – Women Affairs, Community Development, Small and Medium Enterprises Development – $3 038 964 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 18 – Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage – $62 077 103 000 put and agreed to.
On Vote 19 – Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs - $18 187 061 000.00:
*HON. MUSARURWA: On Vote 19, can the Minister consider women. We do not have blankets for prisoners.
they do not have farming equipment such as tractors and so on so that they can have sustainable projects which they can use to supplement their diet while in prison. More-so, when we were working with the Justice Committee, we discovered that our prosecutors do not have accommodation and laptops to use. In addition, their incentives are very low. We are kindly asking for cars for our Justice Officers. Again in Matebeleland South, the jails are too small. Officers are incapacitated and there is overcrowding in the jails. May you please build more spacious jails so that they live comfortably? They are incapacitated in terms of accommodation. May you please help them so that we reduce overcrowding? May you please increase the budget to $20 billion? Thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I am kindly asking you Hon. Minister to supplement money for jails especially in the VIP section. There is too much corruption, so we want a section done so that the VIP members do not mix with the general public. May you please do that as it is done in other foreign countries especially for members from that other side? May you please increase money for rehabilitation of jails because I am foreseeing a lot of them going to those jails? May you please build VIP jails with good gyms and other facilities for them so that they do not mix and mingle with those who will have committed crimes like armed robberies and murder and they will not get stressed?
HON. MOKONE: There is a Gwanda Provincial Correctional facility that has been on the cards for quite some time now. Every year we are told that it is going to be built. I actually asked the Minister of Justice one of these days and he responded that they are going to build it. May you kindly provide funds for that project so that it is done expeditiously?
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, please remember that we are allocating the supplementary budget to the previous budget. We are not bringing in new projects.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. Basically without going into the detail, the request is to increase the budget for the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I propose that we add another Z$1 billion and I also take into account Hon. Mliswa’s proposal. The Gwanda project, we will deal with it in November. Thank you.
Vote 19, as amended, put and agreed to.
Vote 20 – Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services –
$1 002 833 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 21 – Youth, Sports, Arts and Recreation - $3 768 515 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 22 – Energy and Power Development - $2 309 706 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 23 - Information, Communication Technology and Courier Services - $4 793 622 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 24 - National Housing and Social Amenities - $6 894 719 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 25 - Judicial Services Commission - $3 083 046 000 put and agreed to.
On Vote 26 Public Service Commission – $48 800 031 000:
HON. MPARIWA: We said that we are targeting probably the wrong area but our request is that may there be finances which are enough to cater for the civil service. There should be money for uniforms for police, soldiers and prison officers. I would like to request that the Ministries of Home Affairs and Justice be properly capacitated with enough resources. You are aware that some uniforms for the police are now old. You find some officers with torn uniforms. This is a line Ministry which looks after Government workers. My request is that the civil service should be paid well. Our civil servants must receive decent salaries. So, Hon. Minister, may you review salaries of civil servants so that it reduces disgruntlement among the civil servants. There are protests and complaints among the civil servants but if the Hon. Minister gives the permission to allocate money to the civil service, then this would assist the civil service. I thank you.
+HON. MAHLANGU: May I add my voice to the debate on the floor. May the Minister increase the allocation that is being given to our elders. It is now a long time since the elders have received the harmonised cash transfers - [AN HON MEMBR: This is Public Service Commission and not social welfare].
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. M. KHUMALO): We are debating Public Service Commission.
*HON. TOGAREPI: I would like to implore the Hon. Minister to address the welfare of civil servants so that they receive decent salaries from now until December because this is a time when they spend a lot of money. My viewpoint is that like what we did in the previous Vote, maybe there should be an addition of $2 billion to the civil service so that civil servants receive decent remuneration.
*HON. MUSARURWA: I would like to support what has been said but I believe that there is need of a review of the budget allocated to the uniformed forces. They do not have proper uniforms and some officers engage in corrupt activities. They earn low salaries which makes them prone to corruption. Looking at neighbouring countries like Botswana and South Africa, their police service earn salaries which are equivalent to P12 000 and R15 000 respectively but our police are earning meagre salaries.
*HON. RAIDZA: My point of order is that the Hon. Member is leading us astray because our uniformed forces do not fall under the Public Service Commission. I think we need to concentrate on the Public Service Commission that we are debating.
*HON. MUSARURWA: Hon. Minister, I believe you heard what I proposed. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I want to thank Hon. Members for the concerns. This Vote really pertains to the Commission which plays a supervisory or regulatory role. The salaries of the various Commissions are in their respective ministries and what you see here is just 10% of the overall civil service salary bill which is about 53% of the entire Supplementary Budget. We feel that for the Public Service Commission, adequate budget has been set aside. What you see budgeted under Public Service Commission is only about 10% of the entire civil service salary budget. For the Commission which plays that employer role is only about 10% of what has been allocated to the entire civil service. We feel that the budget is adequate for just this one NDA. The rest of the salaries are in the line ministries. If it is police, then it is under Home Affairs Ministry, if it is the soldiers, it is under Defence Ministry. I thank you
Vote 26 put and agreed to.
Vote 27 National Chiefs Council - $500 000 000 put and agreed to.
Vote 28 Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission – $527 448 000.
Vote 29 - National Peace and Reconciliation Commission - ZWL$390,358,000 put and agreed to.
Vote 30 - National Prosecuting Authority - ZWL$1,518,280,000 put and agreed to.
Vote 31- Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission - ZWL$351,394,000 put and agreed to.
On Vote 32 - Zimbabwe Electoral Commission - ZWL$32,693,455:
HON. MATEWU: On Vote 32, Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, I once heard when the Chairperson of ZEC was being asked the reason why we do not have a diaspora vote. The reason that she gave was that there were no adequate resources for Zimbabwe to follow other countries in the SADC. Is it possible that the Minister could allocate the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission money so that we can enable our citizens in the diaspora to vote in the harmonized elections in 2023?
HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. The issue related to ZEC accepting diaspora vote is not financial in my view but it is the law. If the law is not there then we cannot have a diaspora vote. So, let us forget about that.
HON. MADZIMURE: I only have one issue. Hon. Minister, can you please assist ZEC with modern equipment. What they have now is always dysfunctional. Can you assist so that they can speed up the registration process? If you look at the statistics of number of people who are registered versus the population, there is a huge variance. Could the Minister provide adequate funds so that ZEC can use modernized equipment for voter registration and also for them to carry out another voter registration blitz? This is based on the statistics. The preliminary results of the census which show the number of people who are registered and the population itself, we are under registered as Zimbabweans. Zimbabweans must participate in the governance of their country and it is their right. That is exactly why people went to war; it was because of only one vote which must be ensured by simply making sure that enough funds are given to ZEC for them to do voter education, voter registration and procurement of equipment used even when they are transmitting results to election centres during any election.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. On the diaspora vote, I think it is clear that it is an issue of policy and not an issue of resources. When the policies change, we will be able to respond accordingly with resource allocation regarding the diaspora vote.
Then Hon. Madzimure talked about a voter registration blitz. I agree with him that this is very important but we have allocated US$32 billion. This is an additional US$33 billion between now and December and come January we will have the 2023 budget which will then take care of the bigger election in 2023. So we have two shots, including the 2023 budget but we feel that for now US$32 billion is a very good start in dealing with the issues that he has mentioned.
Vote 32 put and agreed to.
Votes 33 - Zimbabwe Gender Commission - ZWL$507,286,000 put and agreed to.
Vote 34 – Zimbabwe Land Commission - ZWL$4,688,411,000 put and agreed to.
Vote 35 - ZWL$238,214,000 - Zimbabwe Media Commission put and agreed to.
House reverted to Vote No 2.
On Vote 2- Parliament of Zimbabwe - ZWL$2,800,748,000 put and agreed to.
*HON. SEWERA: I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the effort he put on the CDF vote to supplement it with US$9,5million. All these Hon. Members in this House had started on a number of projects which are still to be completed. Let me give myself as an example; in my constituency I have nine wards and I cannot be seen to be favouring one ward. There will be an issue with politicians and the people. So most of the Hon. Members had spread out the projects in all wards but when the US$11,400,000 was disbursed, the rate was 1:600 yet when you budgeted it was 1:120. One would have promised people to finish valid projects such as clinics, school blocks and other projects. I was reviewing ongoing projects and I have realised that this will not be enough to complete them. Some Hon. Members have 25 Wards but I have only nine. May the Hon. Minister raise the budget to ZWL15 billion? I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to support the previous speaker. You will appreciate Hon. Minister that there has been inflation. When we got this, it was at about one hundred and something – because of inflation, things have gone up. Let me be honest and say unfortunately, our leaders who are supposed to look into our welfare did not give you specifics in each area. We do not blame you; we will talk to our leaders. They were supposed to give you exactly what we wanted at every point, so it is difficult for you to come up with a figure without you getting something from Administration to say in this department, we want this, information centre we want this and so forth. My clarion call to you without wasting much time is to say the CDF is critical because it is more or less complementing Government efforts in many things. You saw what Zambia has done. The President has given 1.2 million. Those programmes are supporting the Government – either you built a school or clinic, you will be assisting the Ministry of Health or the Ministry of Education. In a way, you will have done a lot. We are on the ground and we are also able to supervise that things go well. In a way, you are giving money to these ministries in terms of building certain things. Give to the MPs under CDF. What is only needed is monitoring and evaluation. I am sure you are seeing the angle. Take some money from these ministries to do roads, clinics and so forth – information centres or public institutions. You do not give them but you give us and we get them to come and build. Monitoring and evaluation is what is important because we are on the ground and that is decentralisation or devolution. To me, it is very important that you think along those lines and in terms of that – I see there is two billion for the additional money required. If we could get a good 20-25 billion including CDF, 30 billion and so forth – that is value for money. I like your term. I see you smiling because you can see value for money. Once you give us this amount of money, we will not let you down. We are monitored; CDF is accounted well; the CDF way of using money has been strengthened. We no longer put money into our accounts. The oversight aspect is excellent. Thirty billion will be good until the budget time.
In terms of the cars as well, I think you have heard that most MPs are dying because of fatigue and driving; that needs a human face to say can we get some money on that. If possible, why do we not get loans in RTGs and we go to the auction, we get USD. If people think we want things for free, no we do not want. We even propose that you give us loans in ZWL and we get the USD. It will certainly help. This is what I really want to say because we understand where you are coming from – if you could just come in with that lump sum and then we sit down with CSRO and tell them where we want the money to go with your Ministry officials there and so forth. That would be my clarion call as my Hon. brother Nduna who is not here would say but just to remember him – my clarion call – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – No he is alright, I spoke to him. It happens and it is part of the game.
HON. MATEWU: I have got three items that I want to talk about. The first one, I just want to buttress the point that has been made by Hon. Mliswa about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I think it is a very essential fund which is helping communities from where we come from. For example in my constituency, we erected a solar powered borehole which is now benefiting the community. Since the local authority said they cannot afford it, I think giving the money to the Hon. Members to do their various projects would be beneficial for us in our community. The two billion that has been added for the CDF is nowhere enough for Hon. Members of Parliament (MPs). When the initial 12 billion was allocated last year, it was almost equivalent to USD50 000 but with today’s inflation rate, that money is now useless. To get another nine million as is in the Supplementary Budget is nowhere near enough to what we need. We want the Minister to consider this one and ensure that we get enough CDF for our MPs.
The second issue is to do with offices for MPs. It is embarrassing when members of your constituency come to you and say where is your office and you direct them to your house. I think we are one of the few countries in Africa, let alone in the world, which does not avail offices to Hon. MPs because our work is about the community. The last three budgets, there has been a talk of allocating money for Hon. MPs to get their offices but this has never been implemented. Can we ensure that in this supplementary budget, there is money so that Hon. MPs can actually rent offices in their constituencies? I think it is very essential and important that people must know where they find their MP and not to go to their homes which are private places where their families are. I think it is important that we get money in this budget for offices for MPs.
My last point is for something that we have always talked about for a very long time – just one staff member for an MP. I think it is unfair that MPs in this country do not actually have any single paid staff. The Hon. Minister of Finance like me has lived in the UK for quite some time. He knows that for example MPs have offices and several staff. They have staff at Parliament and at their constituencies who are paid for from the fiscus. In this country, we do not have a single member of staff that is paid by the Government. This is abhorrent because you expect the MP to do all the paper work, travel across the constituency and do research in Parliament on their own. I think that is unfair. We have put this for a very long time but there must be at least one paid member of staff for a Member of Parliament or a secretary who can then be assigned to do administrative work. I implore the Hon. Minister to consider this in his budget and ensure that Members of Parliament have a member of staff who is paid by Parliament. I thank you.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Hon. Chairman, I would like to add my view to this debate. As women, we have a lot of activities that we need to undertake but I would like to ask the Hon. Minister to allocate more funds for water because we need that. You heard other Members of Parliament speaking so, if you can increase the budget allocation for water, people can have access to water. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Hon. Minister, the issue is that it is important that you respond to Hon. Members because we may spend the whole day talking about what we want. The real issue is you heard what Members of Parliament said and it is now up to you to decide whether to put an additional ZWL15 billion or ZWL30 billion to the Parliament Vote because Members of Parliament want to return to their constituencies. This is to your advantage because when building clinics and other projects, we would have assisted you as the Executive.
For instance, I am going to invite you to come and officially open the clinic that I completed in my constituency next week. You will see the beauty of what I am saying Hon. Minister because this money is not going into my pockets. There is no Member of Parliament who has an account in their name but this is a constituency account with designated signatories to withdraw. We cannot steal that money but Hon. Minister; you need to respond to Hon. Members.
The issue regarding to the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF) is very important and we want you to sleep well. We want you to go home early and rest. So, if the CDF is reviewed to ZWL30 billion then we will divide it by apportioning it to different projects. We want that to be done after deliberating on the issue so that you consider Members of Parliament. There are also negotiations even during lobola ceremonies; this is what we are doing. We want negotiations so that you review the CDF.
On the issue of payments for Members of Parliament, this issue was discussed at length. Members of Parliament are not people who are a laughing stock. If people see what we do when you give us ZWL30 billion, they will respect us. So we want you to do that Hon. Minister, give us that allocation, else we may spend a long time discussing but all Members of Parliament concur that we want to pass the Supplementary Budget so that you go and rest. People are really concerned since we started debating; we want to know the allocation and also that you concur with our proposal. I thank you.
*HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. My request to the Hon. Minister is that looking at the budget outturn in six months, we were a bit low at 33% with several projects that we wanted to do as Parliament. I would like to urge the Hon. Minister to consider Parliament especially funding the oversight role which is quite intensive. So without a good allocation, we will end up compromising accountability and transparency due to lack of funding. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chair, I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. Basically, there is one request which is please increase the budget to Parliament. Let me explain then I will make some proposals.
Any increase in the Supplementary Budget has to come from the Unallocated Reserves. Currently, we have got about ZWL63 billion and it is down to ZWL62 billion after allocating a billion to the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; ZWL300 million to the … - [HON. MEMBERS: We cannot hear him!] – Oooh, I was hugging the microphone. So basically, we have about ZWL62 billion under the Unallocated Reserves, and within that, we have set aside or rather our anticipation is that ZWL43 billion is contingency resources towards civil servants’ salaries. So that leaves us with about ZWL19 billion to play with right across Government, Parliament and everyone.
So I am thinking first of all, I do not have the ZWL30 billion. Even at ZWL15 billion, I think we will be in trouble. I found that in the last two years, the contingency requirements especially around dams, halls are really huge. So it would be a big risk if we increase this supplementary Budget too much. I am going to propose that currently, we set aside ZWL2.8bilion in terms of parliamentary supplementary aspect. I propose an additional ZWL2 billion. Can I add another ZWL5 billion? This will take us overall to close to ZWL10 billion… - [HON. T. MLISWA: At least put it at ZWL15 billion!] – you heard me talking about the figures… - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order Hon. Members.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Members and through you Hon. Chair, you see, as of June, Parliament had only spent about 33% of this budget. So there is still some way to go in utilising the current budget before the $10 billion or so supplementary. I really feel that this is not too bad. If we are hamstrung as a Government in terms of allocated resources, we will be in trouble.
There is only three effective months to go before year end – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Let me consult my accountants.
The Hon. Minister consulted his Accountants.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: After consultations with my technical staff, I now propose that we move this supplementary budget from 2, 8 million to 15 billion – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order!
Vote 2, as amended adopted
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: In view of the amendments that have been proposed in the Audit Office, Parliament of Zimbabwe and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Vote 5 for the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development shall stand committed to the Committee of Supply.
On Vote 5 – Finance and Economic Development - $127 647 990 700.00:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman. Before we took a short break, I was consulting on the figures. I did indicate that we need to make changes to the Finance and Economic Development Vote. We are going to take resources out of the allocated reserves. I therefore, want to make the following amendments to Vote 5. There is Programme 3 which is entitled National Budget Formulation and Implementation. This is where we are going to take away the $16.3 billion that has been allocated to Parliament, the Auditor-General’s Office and the Ministry of Justice and Parliamentary Affairs. The new figure then will be $94,588,887,700. I am only referring to Programme 3. The total for the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development will then be $111,347,990,700. I thank you Sir.
Vote 5, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Supplementary Estimates of Expenditures reported with amendments.
Report adopted.
Bill ordered to be brought in by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development in accordance with the Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure adopted by the House.
FIRST READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) 2022 BILL [H. B 8, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE) presented the Appropriation (Supplementary) 2022 Bill, [H. B 8, 2022].
Bill be read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI seconded by HON. L. SIBANDA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes past Four O’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 30th August, 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 25thAugust, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELL PHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put their phones on silent or switch them off.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Today is Thursday and in Senate, it is the day for Questions without Notice and later, Questions with Notice. I do have here a list of Hon. Ministers who have tendered their apologies as follows:
Hon. D. Musabayana, the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;
Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. P. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and
Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage.
So far, we do have three Hon. Ministers present as follows:
Hon. F. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development;
Hon. C. Chiduwa, Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development;
Hon. R. Machingura, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUMBANE: Thank you Hon. President. I would want to direct my question to the Hon. Minister of Transport, Hon. Mhona. Does the Minister have in place any plans for NRZ to introduce intercity travel since Government has eased most of the COVID-19 restrictions? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Let me also thank Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane for that very important question, which also gives me this platform to elaborate and appraise the august Senate on what we are currently doing through NRZ. Mr. President Sir, the Hon. Senator has raised a very important question. We know that we stopped the intercity facility because of COVID-19. Now, with the relaxation of those restrictions, we are also going to introduce the intercity again whereby in terms of cost management, it is cheap to use train. Above all Mr. President Sir, we are seized as a Ministry, in trying to procure what we call Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs) that will facilitate the ease movement of passengers unlike the archaic locomotives and wagons that we are currently using. I must also commend the Second Republic in trying to move with speed in that regard. To answer Hon. Senator’s question, yes we will soon be introducing the intercity. To ease pressure within our communities in terms of cities, we will also be introducing that service so that we lessen the burden and the demand for public transport by the commuters. This is something that we are working with other stakeholders and I am glad to say in the near future Mr. President Sir, you will see the new branded NRZ back on track. Thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. I would want to ask my supplementary question to the Hon. Minister. He has answered very well in that things are being sorted out so that NRZ re-gains its glory. As we all know, it used to be working very well. Since they put in measures to ensure that it regains its original status, they should put in place measures to ensure that the infrastructure is not vandalised by those that were responsible for destroying the previous NRZ. Thank you.
HON. MHONA: Thank Hon. President of the Senate. Thank you Hon. Sen. Tongogara for raising that pertinent question. It is true that it was very popular in terms of moving goods and in terms of employment. This has gone down. We are grateful that we now have a visionary leader, His Excellency, the President, Dr. Mnangagwa. A lot of infrastructure that had gone down the drain is now being resuscitated and among those, many things that I have made reference to, we used to know that our railway lines used to carry passengers. Some of the infrastructure was now being destroyed by the employees and above all, because of the corruption that we were seeing, the President is against corruption and unscrupulous means.
So as we come up with new infrastructure and new stock in the form of wagons and locomotives, the employees are expected to look after this infrastructure in a proper manner and be proud as Zimbabweans that we build our own country and as a result, we should also look after our own infrastructure. So when this new infrastructure comes on board, it is our duty as the august House to go back to the people and explain to them Government policies through our oversight as well as representative functions. As we come here, we should also be alive to that.
I do not believe it should end there. If it is the Government, there are also Government departments, ministries or agents that are responsible for the public relations between the people, stakeholders and the Government departments. As the Senate, we should be alive to ensure that we carry oversight and safeguard Government’s properties. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF. NTABENI: My supplementary question goes to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Many of our roads have been destroyed and are now full of potholes as a result of the movement of heavy trucks. When you have resuscitated our railway system, will you remove those heavy trucks from our roads and rehabilitate the roads? I thank you.
*HON. MHONA: Yes, it is true that if our roads are well maintained, there are certain types of vehicles that may be overloaded or maybe illegal. Once we have well running rail infrastructure, goods that are now being found on the roads will now be transported by the railways. It will then mean that as we maintain our roads, our work is made much lighter. As you have rightly pointed out, the majority of the goods that used to be transported by railway line are now being put on the road. If we look at our railway network, we have 2 800km, which means that we have railway transport system unlike in other countries. We know that 260km are what we have as cracks. On roads, we say potholes but those cracks need to be relooked and also be made functional so that our goods and locomotives can move smoothly.
This also gives us a chance to also repair our roads that would have been damaged for a long time. We should also know that we draw from one source in terms of funding and we may not meet the pace that the public expects us to be moving, but the truth of the matter is, once our railways are in place, our roads are going to have lighter motor vehicles and the burden placed on them is going to become better. Road and rail transport are all linked. Goods should be transported along the railways. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. I believe that Zimbabwean people would want to know about the issue mentioned earlier. You said you are going to restore the railway system to its former glory. When do we expect that to be done? The chief has said that the railway lines are now in a bad state. As you strive towards doing that, how much do you require to ensure that this project can take off? Do you now have partners that can assist you to ensure that this good work is done?
*HON. MHONA: Thank you Mr. President. The truth of the matter is, if you look at the debates that are taking place in the National Assembly and in Senate, we are looking at the supplementary budget so that we are able to buy some of the equipment and accessories that I am talking about. If you look at the Mid-term Fiscal Statement, it states that the NRZ should buy five locomotives. These are DMUs and that should happen during this year.
What I am making a reference to is in the Government’s plans and I urge that as you look at the supplementary budget, the faster that you allow the Minister the faster things will come on board as agreed to. In the statement by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, there is US$115 million that is required. That is what we are working with now. I believe that if we buy these things, we will move much faster. It is something we are already working on. It is not something that we envisage will be done. We are discussing with those that can repair, make or build these locomotives and fixing the engines. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We have been joined by three more Ministers and they are as follows;- Hon. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. Nyoni, Minister of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development and Hon. Maboyi, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. My question goes to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Before I ask my question, I would like to thank him for the work being done along the Masvingo-Beitbridge Road, sikutshayela ihlombe, you are doing a wonderful job. We do not know when you are going to finish but it is a good job. My question is on the Beitbridge-Bulawayo Road, do you have any plans of working on that road, if so when?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. President. I would also like to thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for the compliments and I also need to commend the Second Republic for also making sure that we listen to the request and the people of Zimbabwe to make sure that they have a happy living conducive environment to do their business through effective and robust road network. Mr. President Sir, Bulawayo- Beitbridge Road is one of our emotional roads and I want to thank the Hon. Sen. for bringing that.
As we are rehabilitating the Beitbridge-Harare Road, now already the contractor is on site and we are busy we have started again to work on the Beitbridge-Bulawayo waiting for a bigger partner to work on that particular stretch. Currently, in the next month, you will see us opening part of that road. We have already started doing the Beitbridge-Bulawayo but the desired state is to make sure that we do the entire stretch. Right now we can do 5km but it is nothing as compared to the distance that has to be covered. What we have, initially we had one suitor for that road and apparently we were not happy with the structure. We have taken it upon ourselves to start working on the road whilst we are also pursuing other partners so that we rehabilitate that road.
What I want to assure Hon. Sen. Mohadi is that we have started and she cited the Harare/Beitbridge road, we are certain that we will be through come next year and the entire stretch will be done. Not only Beitbridge-Bulawayo, we also have Bulawayo-Tsholotsho, Bulawayo-Nkayi Roads, those are also major roads that we are seized with as a Ministry. I want to assure the Hon. Senator that we have started and also to say in the near future, you will see us depending heavily on that particular stretch which is in a sorry state, I need to concur.
His Excellency the President of Zimbabwe is saying there is no one and no place that is going to be left behind inter-alia that road she has mentioned is one of those roads.
HON. SEN. MANYAU: Thank you Mr. President, my question is; we have too many potholes in the locations where we live...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is not a supplementary question. I will right your name down for a fresh question.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Mr. President, it is by mere coincidence that most of the questions are directed to the Minister of Transport; accordingly mine is also directed to him. Mr. President, the capital city is over flooded by vehicles; vehicles of all types to an extent that there is no longer a peak hour. When it comes to Harare, every hour is a peak hour. From a layman’s perspective, our roads have been overwhelmed by the volume of traffic. Therefore Hon. Minister, what plans does Government have to ensure there is no longer over flooding of vehicles in the capital city that has seen accidents occurring regularly? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. President Sir and let me also thank Hon. Sen. Kambizi. Indeed Mr. President Sir, the chaotic situation that we are witnessing in our cities is something that needs to be addressed with speed. I do agree with Hon. Sen. Kambizi, we know that the issue to do with urban mass transport system falls under the purview of local authorities and in this particular instance, Local Government. From a policy perspective Mr. President, the issues to do with mass urban transportation are at the centre of the Second Republic. The issues to do with congestion, we must take cognisance of the fact that roads were designed years back where in terms of the traffic, as we speak we are looking close to 1.5 million vehicles plying our roads and during those days they were targeting less than a 500 000 vehicles. You can imagine all these years we did not witness rehabilitation and expansion of our roads which has actually impacted negatively and resulted in the chaos that has been alluded to by the Hon. Senator. So my response is; we are in a process of widening, coming up to widen our roads as we speak and I will cite one good example that you will see us even right from Mbudzi interchange straight to Harare Post Office where we are dualising, widening our roads, trying to decongest some of our roads. We are also coming up with Harare ring road so that we decongest some of the vehicles plying straight into the city centre, of which they are not supposed to be passing through the city centre. So I do agree that the chaos that we have and we are also trying to engage a player in the transportation system to have an organized Committee where they also take charge. I can cite a good example; we have got the chovhamubaiwa, very organized in terms of picking passengers which is also a plea to those plying City of Harare in particular, so that we have organized association and we do not have chaos. It also comes to the indiscipline and failure to exercise patience. Everyone wants to be the first whether the robot is green or red, you will find someone even driving facing oncoming traffic, which is also a wakeup call to the citizenry to say, let us uphold the rules and regulations of our roads. Let us also bear with one another because this is something that comes from an individual that the indiscipline that we are witnessing is scary, what we can do in the shortest space of time that we have as a nation whilst we are waiting also for the DMUs. The DMUs that I talked about, if you look at our status quo for our railway line, it actually passes through heavy industries and through locations, so already the infrastructure is there. You will see that instead of everyone driving into town you will now have an option to drive during weekends because we will be having a robust alternative transport facility. So this is what we are working on and I want to thank the Hon. Sen. that it is a journey that we have started. Also bear with us as we partake into this very important trajectory. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What is Government policy regarding electricity and the issue of motor vehicles and so on? Some of these are caused by street lights that are now working. I want to also point out that the road that leads to the airport is very important to the nation, I was receiving a guest and there were no street lights, it was dark. Do we have people that see that street lights from the airport to the city are functional?
Again, people out there want to know about the issue of electricity, every day there is load shedding, they get electricity well after 2000 hours. What is Government’s position? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Hungwe, you mentioned I think the issue of street lights on the airport road and then the last part of the question I think it is to do with the availability of electricity to the nation. What are you asking about? I do not know if street lighting is under the Minister’s purview, I suspect it might not be.
HON. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President, I mentioned the issue of street lights because they are not functioning well because sometimes there will be no electricity. Street lights normally function using electricity.
*THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Hon. President. Let me thank Hon. Sen. Sipani-Hungwe for posing the question. There might be several questions but let me try and answer the question by saying that we do have a shortage of electricity which has now led us to going into agreements with the neighbouring countries such as Mozambique and South Africa to provide us with electricity. A short while ago, ZESA made an arrangement to source electricity of 100 megawatts from Zambia. All these measures are being put in place as we wait for the coming on board of unit 7 at Hwange so that it can bring 300 megawatts into the grid. We believe that by November, that power generator will have come on board and January 2023, the other one that will bring in another 300 megawatts.
What we are doing is short term and others are long term. As I explained earlier on, at Hwange Power Station, there is an expansion programme taking place. Government did not end there, the problems that we are facing are coming from the fact that from unit 1 to unit 6, the infrastructure is now very old and they are constantly breaking down. It was then decided that those units should be refurbished, so as we start getting electricity from unit 7 and 8, we will have a chance to switch off some of these older units so that they can be refurbished. As they are refurbished, it is our wish that they should give us 920 megawatts from those six units, which is the installed capacity of the existing power station.
Mr. President, this also includes private investors that are coming on board as independent power producers. We do have several of those that are putting up electricity on to our national grid. Those that are harnessing solar energy and putting it into the grid are also assisting the Government in ensuring that power shortage is eliminated. The country and economy cannot develop without power. There should be a relationship between the development of the country and the amount of electricity available.
Mr. President, I will go back to the issue of the CBD, that there are power outages and that motor vehicles cannot utilise traffic lights because traffic lights will not be functioning as a result of there being no electricity. One of the causes is vandalism. This vandalism is caused by criminals and we have observed that power lines will have been stolen or transformers will have been affected and this leads to power outages. Government gives priority to most of the CBD businesses so that they are able to manufacture. In the cities, even if we have power outages, we do not do load shedding. If there is no electricity, it will be a power outage or it would be vandalism or some of the accessories will have been stolen.
The Hon. Senator gave an example of the road that leads to the airport, that it will be dark, and that will not give a good image. Such an issue needs cooperation so that the street lights which fall under the city councils, especially the City of Harare, should be able to look into that issue and ensure that there is street lightning in those roads unless there is a fault but they work hand-in-glove with ZESA so that there will be electricity. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My supplementary question is that the Minister said with unit 7 and 8, we will be producing adequate electricity in February 2023. Are we then going to have a relief as a result of that? Are we going to have adequate electricity? Furthermore, what is the deficit that you are currently having in terms of demand as well as how much are you importing, when do you expect to reach the level where this country is going to have sufficient electricity? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Hon. Sen. Komichi for the question. I have explained that we are not only waiting for the arrival of the month of February that we should have adequate electricity. The explanation that I gave in the previous question, I mentioned that in August, we have put in place measures to receive 100 megawatts from Zambia (ZESCO). We are not just waiting that come February everything will have been attended to because things that I have made reference to are going to be maintained so that Zimbabwean population can get adequate electricity in mining, farming and other industries. This is news that we are waiting for February to end our plights. Work is being currently done but we have put in place short term measures and we also have long term measures to ensure that we have adequate electricity.
I have already explained what the Government has done. The Government has a vision and that vision looks at becoming an upper middle class society by 2030 and hence we have put in place measures to ensure that, that can be done and we do that by ensuring that there is an expansion of Hwange through Unit 7 and 8 and refurbishment of the old units. So, we are going further in saying what type of development will be required in this country and what quantities of electricity are we going to have if Unit 7 and 8 is going to provide adequate electricity. ZESA is constantly carrying out research to find out in terms of NDS1 so that by the time we reach 2025, what will be the required amount of electricity that will be adequate. We even take it further to 2030. We have a blue print that addresses such issues in terms of where we are going to get electricity from so that the country has adequate electricity. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYAU: Thank you Mr. President. I now pose my question to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities. There are a lot of disabled people in Zimbabwe who are on the waiting list. Some of these people have been on this waiting list for over ten years and whenever they approach your offices, they are told that they have not been on the waiting list for ten years. Those that have organisations are informed that the stands are available for USD7 000 which is beyond the reach of the majority of these people. If one is disabled, are they discriminated by disability when they come to your offices? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. GARWE): Thank you Mr. President. Let me thank Hon. Sen. Manyau for the question. I have understood the question to be too pronged. The first one requires that you have to put the question in writing so that we carry out our research and so that we give a satisfactory answer. The second part is that in the new dispensation led by His Excellency the President, Dr. Mnangagwa, no place and no one is going to be left behind; the youth, the disabled, women and men, everyone should have accommodation. Please put it in writing so that we can look into the question closely. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NKOMO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. The Government is doing a very good job and it is approaching all those without documentation. My question is on those other people who are referred to as street kids - how does your Ministry operate? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): I thank Hon. Sen. Nkomo. Yes, we appreciate that you have commended us that we are doing a good job. For street kids, we have no programme at the moment to look into their issues and to find out where they come from, but I see that the First Lady is trying to make sure that community is gathered but us as a Ministry, we have not yet heard that from her. We are grateful that you have told us about that and we also realise that it is a feasible programme for the street kids.
We have some other organisations which have tried to gather that community, be they adults or kids, that they be gathered at one place to find out where they come from. Now that you have told us, we will comply and see how we can handle that matter as a Ministry because these street kids come from somewhere. So, if we undertake that programme, their relatives will come back and try to coax them. We will look into that. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank Mr. President Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Of late, there was this issue that passports were no longer being printed. What had gone wrong that caused you to cease printing of passports? Have you since started producing those passports? I thank you.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Yes, our machine was down and now the machines are up and running. The passports are now being produced. You can pass through and inquire from the people. I also got feedback that things are working quite well. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. The banks today are giving cash of about ZWD5 000 a week. That is maybe equivalent to US$10 at ZWD500 but if you go to the ATM or foreign currency, you will get USD1000. Is it the policy of the Ministry to strangle people to buy local goods because when you want to buy, you cannot use ZWD 5000 to buy anything from the market? For the person without an ATM card; ecocash is restricted. It is not easy for an ordinary person to be able to access money to use to buy ordinary goods on the streets.
If you go on the street, you will find cash being waved around but when you get to the bank you would not wave around because it will be little. What is the Government policy in trying to address the access to local currency by ordinary citizens?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I would also like to thank Hon. Sen. Mudzuri. Let me first correct the Hon. Senator when he said - is it Government policy to strangle people. It is not the policy of Government. The policy of Government is to ensure that people get their money freely. With regards to the ZWD5 000 limit, the policy of Government with regards to financial inclusion is to use multiple products that can be used for transacting. One such is the usage of cash but if you check in terms of international best practice and what is happening globally, we are moving away from the use of hard cash.
Yes for us, our peculiar case is, we are still heavily dependent on the use of cash but what we have done as Government is to adjust the limits in line with inflation. So going forward, we will continue to review. We will look at what is coming from the consumer associations. They also do similar submissions as what you have done. We also consult the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ). These limits are normally announced in the Monetary Policy Statement. So what I can assure you Hon. Sen. Is, the limits will continue to be reviewed.
Meanwhile, we also encourage our transacting public to make use of other platforms like the one which you have mentioned to say, it is somehow limited where people can make use of mobile platforms. I may also want to tell the House that we may also try looking at what are called Central Bank digital currencies. This again is a shift that is going to happen in line with international trends where we are moving away from the use of hard cash. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. My supplementary question is around the use of other platforms. If you go into shops you do not use any other currency, you cannot swipe. You can only swipe ZWD. It is actually giving people to trade in the USD outside the normal currency because USD is more transacted outside the streets than our local currency. You cannot swipe the USD or any other currency. So, how do you interpret your explanation that you must be using other platforms? *You said we can also use what we call mobile platforms but there is my grandmother who is at home who sells tomatoes and she wants to receive her hard cash. She only has a phone that allows her to receive phone calls from grandchildren. How do you expect these people to use $10 per week? If they want to buy a goat, they should raise $10 per week. You said you were going to review it. How long is it going to take for you to see that the limit that you are giving is now worthless?
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Hon. President. I would want to thank the Hon. Senator for the supplementary question. I am very happy when you said if we go in our shops, it appears like the only currency where the swipe facility is available is for the Zimbabwe dollar.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order. Hon. Minister, your gadget is no longer connected.
HON. CHIDUWA: I am happy Hon. Senator to say if the currency that is available on the swipe facility is the local currency, then that is the policy trajectory that we have. We would want to promote the use of our local currency. We have said it before that as a country, in order for us to move forward, we need to transact and make use of the Zimbabwe dollar. If you check the development that we have done as a country, let us look at the roads, dams, infrastructure development when it comes to airports, hospitals and clinics, all this is happening because of the use of the local currency. I have been speaking to friends and said, guys at that time when we were using the US dollar, can you please point to me one project that we did as a country...
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Point of Order, Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: There is no point of order. He is speaking his mind. He is explaining what you asked him. You can make a follow up question. Hon. Minister, you may continue.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Mr. President. My submission is, it is very important that we make use of the local currency. From the Hon. Senator’s submission, it appears like there is something that should be done so that when it comes to swiping, facilities should be there not only for the local currency but even for the other currencies such as the US dollar. I think this is a matter of preference because if you go to shops, they give you the choice. You can use the local currency or you can use the US dollar. I am not sure how best we can then go to shops to say if there is that facility to use the local currency, you should also ensure that where people have US dollar, you should have swipe facilities. We have said, both the US dollar and the local currency are legal tender and as a matter of policy, both should be availed when it comes to transacting. I would say this is the position. If there is that facility for the local currency, I think this is good news for us.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I move that time for Questions without Notice be extended by 15 minutes.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. My question comes as a supplementary but what I wanted to say is, there is no interchange. If you go to Zambia, Mozambique, France, UK there is a swipe machine you use with a foreign currency card. You can transact both currencies, which means if I go to South Africa and I have got a foreign currency card, if I swipe, it will interchange immediately,. that is no existent in this country. So the platform he is talking about is not there. That is why I wanted him to explain why there is no interchange if he wants us to use multi-currency. He was telling us about projects but I wanted him to answer how the common person in the rural areas will be able to transact when they do not have the gadgets. They need the cash at least at a reasonable amount that they can use.
*HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Hon. Sen. Mudzuri. If I look at leading retail outlets, they all have swipe machines. They transact in both the Zimbabwe dollar and the US dollar. For the rural area, this is again where we have a challenge because some shops are still at those levels where they are not in a position to have swipe machines for Visa and US dollars. As part of our financial inclusion, we are saying let us make use of the cash which I said we are going to review. Let us make use of other platforms that can assist our people to be able to transact in addition to the swipe machines that might be limited in the rural areas. As I said, this is work in progress but the issue of limits is going to be reviewed. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUMBANE: Thank you Mr. President for offering me this opportunity. I would want to direct my question to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Mr. President, we have seen lawlessness gripping our society today, especially on the roads where people now park cars willy-nilly and break the law as they want. We have seen police officers turning a blind eye on that. I wanted to find out from the Minister what the Government policy is in ensuring that the Police maintain law and order in our roads. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Ngungumbane. It is very true, as we also drive from here going to Beitbridge, we sometimes are greeted by that situation and we say the situation has not always been like that. Yes, we have our police officers. Those are our children who are at times stubborn no matter how you tell them, no matter how they know the laws since they are policemen. They sometimes ignore that one, but I just wanted to say Hon. Senators, with due respect, wherever you get a situation where the police are doing that, can you please help us.
We are saying yes, they are doing that. At times when I am travelling in a police car, they know it and if they have made people to stand like they want to make sure they are taking something, you find they just try to hide their faces. Those are policemen. We are not rejecting that but we are trying by all means that they should follow the laws of the country.
Yes, we have that situation. I will try to go and talk to my principal that Hon. Senators really are not happy and we are also not happy. We are seeing the situation. At times it is unbearable, but let us try to correct the situation. We can do that by probably just parking your car, Hon. Sen. Ngungumbane and showing them that you are a Senator and what they are doing is not correct. You are not insulting them but you are giving them the real issue. This is what we come across yes.
I remember the other time I saw these young policemen putting their heads inside the cars when there is this COVID. I just parked the car and asked what type of policing they were doing. Now they were a bit scared and I told them that I am the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Do you mean that you are very safe when you are putting your head inside the car which you do not even know where it is coming from? So we have that problem. We have to accept but it is not all of them who are doing that. Thank you very much.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Minister. If I can just assist, Minister crack your whip. There is too much lawlessness on the roads. That question which has been raised by the Hon. Sen. Chief is very relevant. If we do not nip this in the bud, it will get out of hand. So I think you need to crack the whip and get people to obey the law of the land in terms of traffic. There are people who are driving against one ways. They are doing all sorts of illegal things. So please Minister, you must whip the people in line so that they follow the country’s laws.
HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI: We also want to say we will try by all means. We are working with our young policemen who are a bit stubborn as I said, but we will crack the whip. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Do not be afraid, you have the power.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development. What has the gold coin helped us as a country, especially those of us who are in the communal lands; for example, the old lady who is selling tomatoes? I thought that after the coming on board of the gold coin, the 2% would be removed. What has the gold coin helped us, especially to the people in the rural areas? Thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Hon. President. The major problem that I should state is that we were having incessant price rises or inflation. This inflation, when we looked at it, we observed that it was being caused by too much liquidity in the market, so we then decided to come up with a way of mopping up this excess liquidity in the market, then yes, we brought in the gold coin.
The purpose of the gold coin is two pronged; first, that there are some people who have money and they would want to store value on their money. As a result of inflation, our currency could not be used as a storage value. So those elite who have a lot of money, we then decided that it would be used as a store of value for those with their monies.
Of the gold coins that we have sold, we have used ZWL4 billion. Of the ZWL4 billion, we have taken that money off the market. People are going to keep that gold coin for six months and we will also be holding on to ZWL 4 billion. If you go on the market to look for this ZWL4 billion, you will not access it. It has helped on the ground in that at the moment, the volatility of the prices is no longer there. The person who has gold now wants Zimbabwean dollar and it is not easily available. That we have created a demand for our local currency has now stabilised. No one now wants to part with their Zimbabwean dollars. Even the black market rate is now around 600 to 650. It is almost closer to the upper bid rates of the auction.
It has helped the ordinary man and woman on the street that our prices are now stable, prices are going down. That is the benefit that we have now derived, Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Questions No. 1 up to 7 are deferred up to next week.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order, before the Ministers leave.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: My point of order is, last week we were promised that we are likely to get a Ministerial Statement on gold coins this week, the Hon. Minister is still here, he might disappear before he tells us what is going on.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister, did you promise that?
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Hon. President, you are the one who said the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is coming this week.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I was hoping the Hon. Minister would come for the Budget this week. Unfortunately, the Minister of Finance is held up in the National Assembly and it looks like we will debate next week. The issue of gold coins will then be debated in detail next week.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: What we need is a statement which explains everything before we debate.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I do not know about the statement but I know that in the budget he will talk about gold coins. You can remind him to say something on gold coins when he comes. Otherwise he could not come this week because there were challenges in the National Assembly.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Why I am asking this is we are legislators, we have to explain to our constituencies. We cannot continue to be ignorant and say we are going to debate this during the budget. We need background information and understand what it means so that we can also explain when we go out there. Yes, we can debate the budget but when we do not understand what it means, does it make sense? We want to know what it means first then we will be able to debate that. We will then be able to contribute knowing what will be going on.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think that is fair, Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance take note of that.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 be stood over until Order No. 3 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE STATUS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS AND ACCESS TO ANTE-NATAL CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN IN PRISONS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the Inquiry into the Status and Welfare of Children Accompanying Incarcerated Mothers.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me the opportunity to add my voice to the report that was tabled by the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development and was read in this august Senate by Hon. Sen. Ndlovu. Madam President, they gave us a report that described how they conducted their business. They visited prisons where women who are breast feeding, who have children below two years and those who are pregnant are incarcerated. Pregnant women who are arrested when they are pregnant will be imprisoned and they will give birth whilst in prison. Our Constitution in sections 18 and 91 give rights to the children. We also observed that such rights are enshrined in the Constitution and in section 58 of the Prison Act, it allows children to live with their mothers inside.
Madam President, in terms of the children’s rights that they should also be in the company of their mothers, these children face some challenges. When the Committee visited various prisons, the problems that they saw include that children that are with their mothers in prisons are not getting adequate medication. There are medical personnel but they were not resourced and as a result this tended to neglect the right of the children. It was also observed that women who are pregnant whilst they are incarcerated in these prisons face some challenges; even if they are midwives it was observed that they lacked necessary medication to help these women. The care givers then find it very difficult to perform their duties in the absence of necessary tools of trade. It was observed that these children are allowed to live with their mothers for 18 months, thereafter they are removed from breastfeeding but there arises a problem. Once they have been weaned off breast milk,, no relative is forthcoming to take that child so that they can look after that child since the mother would still be serving her sentence.
Furthermore, if there is no one who is willing to take or adopt the children and such children cannot benefit from any environment outside the prison. It was also observed that though the Social Welfare can assist some children they are unable to take away the children. It was observed that when they are taken to Social Welfare, there is no form of assistance which is good that they receive so that when they are taken to Social Welfare, there is no form of assistance which is good that they receive so when they go out, they have no means of sustaining themselves outside the institution.
It was also observed that sanitary wear is difficult to come by. We are aware that our Government came up with a law that sanitary wear should be given to women, especially school children but it was observed that there is a problem Madam President. The issue is that school children are not regularly receiving the sanitary wear and there is no sanitary wear to talk about in prison that is coming from the Government. They get assistance from well-wishers but here is the problem, the well-wisher will say I was assisting you but I am now unable to do that, which means they will have to tear the bed sheets that they are supposed to use as bedding to use as sanitary wear. These are challenges that need to be looked into.
Madam President, I urge the Minister of Finance to try and ensure that women that are incarcerated also receive funding through the prisons so that the lives of these incarcerated women will be improved because sanitary wear is important. It is a natural process that everyone goes through no matter their location. Government should come on board and assist us so that prisons are allocated sufficient funding to ensure that they buy sanitary wear for women.
Madam President, I would want to express my gratitude to the Government for coming up with open prisons which are now being constructed. Once all our provinces have these open prisons, they now have better accommodation and they will not be over crowded because there will be seven or ten in a small room. This is a good project. It also restores the dignity of these incarcerated women. It is my plea that the Ministry of Lands gives farms to prisons so that those incarcerated prisoners can grow their own food. It will mean that the food shortages that we have in prison will be a thing of the past because there will be self-sustenance through farming ventures. We are all aware that those that have been allocated land should know that farming is a business and one should commercially farm and should not be used for subsistence purposes. Gone are the days when subsistence farming should be the in thing and once we also grow to feed the nation, this will ensure that prisoners that are incarcerated will grow their own food and become self-sustaining. Prisons can raise their own monies from farming ventures through hard work and harvesting sufficient quantities that exceed their requirements and ending up selling the surplus. From the cash raised, they can end up providing for other things that are in shortage at prisons.
I want to thank the Committee that conducted these visits to prisons, who then give us a detailed report and also came up with how the conditions of prisons can be improved and that of women that are incarcerated. Thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President. I am one of those people who visited prisons looking at the welfare of women in prisons especially those with children. We went all around Matabeleland and also in Masvingo. I was hurt by three things: the first one is that when children are in prison with their parents, it means the child is being incarcerated for a crime that he/she did not commit. This will be a young child. Looking at the life that the mother will be leading with children, this then affects the child when they are grown up. Children will think that they should emulate the life that was experienced by their mothers in prison. The child then grows up living a very difficult life.
Madam President, Government should feel pity for these young children especially the toddlers who can manage to walk or managing on their own without their mothers. They should be placed at a certain place which is more like a preschool where the mother can just go and visit them and may be breastfeed them there. The mother will be just going there to check on them every now and again. I think that would be better instead of them staying with their mothers in those crowded prisons like what has been alluded to by other Hon. Senators. There will be about ten adults staying in a very small room. We were told at Khami Prison that at times there are squabbles in those rooms, especially with those who are mentally disturbed, they end up fighting and this is bad for the child to see such things.
I was also hurt, it was said that these ladies are staying crowded and when we went there, it was very cold. They did not have any blankets. I noticed that one of the ladies was covering herself with a blanket. Those are not proper blankets, the very bad ones. These blankets are still in the same prisons that were there during the colonial era but when you go where there are white prisoners, they lead more or less normal life. It is actually a correctional prison. They were staying in prisons which were more of apartments or flats and they were trained a lot of things on how to make shoes, cook and to make clothes and uniforms. They were under training and each one had a bed in the room. Although they were locked up, you could see that that is a nice place for someone to stay although it is someone who would have committed an offence. With us here, we have been independent for over 40 years and we are still using the old prisons that were there during the colonial era. Why do we not change these prisons?
Even if someone is in prison, one has to know that they have wronged the nation but we are hardening them by placing them in such places because when they are released from prison, they will tell us that they have been hardened by the prison. So they are no longer afraid of committing other offences but when they go to these prisons where they are trained and taught how to use their own hands to survive, others will tell you that I managed to do a course in prison and now I can stand on my own. You find that some people can survive that way.
We cannot all be the same but my main request just like what had been said by other Hon. Senators is, may the Minister of Finance please try to develop these prisons so that they can change completely? These should be rehabilitation centres and it should be clear that these are prisons where people are independent. They should not survive like people in a kraal because that is what used to hurt us a lot when you saw someone in prison.
Whites used to oppress us and it used to hurt us a lot and we thought that was going to change but it never changed. Nothing has changed in the prisons from my own observation because that is what I used to see when I was still young, and that is the same thing I am still seeing after forty years plus after independence. There should be a difference and we are now being ruled by Africans. They should not continue hating other blacks the same way that whites used to hate us. They should just correct them properly.
There is a way of correcting someone and there is another way of hardening and that is why most of these people who come out of prison come out as hardened criminals. Coming to these women with children in prison, it really hates seeing children in those places. They were not too many, but they should construct a room, maybe half the size of this room and get someone to look after the children and cook for them.
At some places where we visited, we were told that there was no food for children but children were eating whatever the mother was eating. We know that in prison, people eat cabbage and soup and such food is what is given to children who are eight months or a year old. The mothers were crying saying that they are given porridge in the morning but the porridge will not have sugar. We know that they are trying to punish the offenders but why are they punishing the children as well?
We were hurt as women when we saw that because we realised that children were really suffering and that is a life that they will never forget in their lives. So our request is that we would like to remind the Minister of Finance to build places for young children in prisons or they can build a school or a crèche for them because these children learn from a young age. So if you do not teach them whilst they are still young, then you will not manage them when they are old. That is what I also wanted to add to what has already been said.
Our main request is that these women be given blankets as I said that they are given these small rough blankets and those are the blankets that they use together with the children. We know that we had a very cold spell this winter but for them to be given one blanket is not good. Madam President, our plea is that you talk to the Ministers and the President because we also want to know what the Government is doing about those people in prison who only have one blanket in winter time and yet some of us still feel cold when we have so many blankets. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 30 August, 2022.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE BENCHMARKING VISIT TO RWANDA
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the benchmarking visit to Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Madam President for giving
me the opportunity to debate on the report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on their benchmarking visit to Rwanda on women participation in leadership, politics, decision making and women empowerment in the socio-economic sector from 26th to 31st March, 2022.
In debating this report, I would like to draw inspiration from the Word of God. The Book of Jeremiah 6:16 reads, “Stand at the crossroads and look. Ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is and walk in it and will find rest for your soul”.
The question may be asked, what is benchmarking? Google says benchmarking is to evaluate something by comparison with a standard. I will be the first one to concede that Rwanda is not the gold standard but I am sure that everyone agrees with me that their standard will be great progress on our part. The trip to Rwanda by the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development came at a great cost to our national fiscus and it will be a great shame if the lessons learnt there were to come to naught.
The Word of God said, “ask where the good way is and walk in it”. In other words, it is not enough only to find a good thing or a good path and then just ignore it. Rwanda, like Zimbabwe, is a landlocked country of just over 12.6 million inhabitants situated in Central Africa. In 1994, it suffered a genocide in which over a million people died. There could be no better country to benchmark Zimbabwe than Rwanda, considering our past as a nation also.
The Constitution of Zimbabwe envisages a situation whereby there is gender parity in the composition of Parliament and in decision making structures of our governance. Unfortunately, the currency composition falls far short of this Constitutional imperative. The Constitution Amendment Number 2 was not helpful also in this regard as it maintains this unfair and unjust low numbers of women in Parliament for the next 10 years.
If we are benchmarking ourselves as a nation against Rwanda, then we have a long way to go because women in Rwanda constitute the majority in their Parliament. To be precise, women are 61% in that Parliament. The question then therefore, is how did they achieve such an impressive feat? The United Nations on Women says, the road for women’ s increased participation in politics in Rwanda was paved by the 2003 Constitution, which set aside a quarter of 30% women in all decision making organs, including 24 of the 80 seats in the Lower House of Parliament.
Those seats are elected by Innovative, which is the operative whip, Innovative Special Electoral College, composed of voters from local women councils and district councils. Besides the two reserved seats, women candidates won 26 other seats of the 53 available. In other words, if we are to bring women into the mainstream of politics, we need to design and craft our laws in a manner that encourages them and that makes it possible for us to attain this progressive goal.
It is clear that the people of Rwanda did not pay only lip service to this important issue of gender parity. Their Electoral Act and other related legislation and election processes and procedures are geared towards making gender parity more than just a slogan but to achieve this noble reality. If Zimbabwe was to achieve this benchmark, it must without questioning, revise its laws so that it can give effect to this important matter.
Madam President, following the much publicised gruesome genocide of 1994, the Government of Rwanda enacted laws criminalising genocide ideology, which can include intimidation, defamatory speeches, genocide denial and mocking of victims. If we as a nation were to achieve the levels of national unity and harmony which Rwanda has, it will be important to emulate such measures following the Gukurahundi atrocities of 1983 to 1987. We see in intraparty elections and discussions this willy-nilly mocking of victims of Gukurahundi with impunity in this country. We see opposing members being threatened with Gukurahundi every now and then, mostly in opposition parties. This undermines this goal which we have set for ourselves as the thematic committee gave its report.
Rwanda, the country which we are benchmarking ourselves on enacted laws which criminalise genocide and in this case, we can say Gukurahundi ideology, intimidation, defamatory speeches around Gukurahundi and those that deny and mock victims of Gukurahundi. Rwanda did not stop there Madam President. It went further and established what is called reconciliation barometer. The latest report was released in 2020, which is an assessment of the status of reconciliation in Rwanda from 2016 to 2020. This report seeks to assess how much effort the Government, development partners, the civil society, the media, as well as those of private business have succeeded in bringing about unity and reconciliation among Rwandans since 1994.
As a country, we are yet to embark on such rigorous and deliberate initiatives to measure as to how far we have gone with reconciliation since the atrocities if we are serious. This work is not only work which is exclusive to Government. Our chosen nation to benchmark shows us that Government, developmental partners, civil society together with the media and private sector have a role to play.
In 2010, the National Unity Reconciliation Commission undertook a national survey in Rwanda that formed the basis of the first national reconciliation barometer. A subsequent addition of the national reconciliation barometer was presented in 2015. The 2015 report highlighted the gains made since 2010, as well as challenges to reconciliation that needed special attention. Factors that hindered reconciliation as indicated in the report included ethnic based stereotypes at 27.9% lingering genocide ideologies at 25.8% and wounds resulting from past divisions and genocide not fully healed.
We must not be discouraged or deterred in going down this path because of some failures. It is possible that the road will be difficult, steep and resisted by certain unreformed elements of our Gukurahundi. As a nation, as we have already started the journey by going to benchmark against Rwanda, we must take this unavoidable initiative and see this journey through.
Madam President, another important benchmark which has been debated a lot also is the inclusive nature of Rwanda’s Parliament and Governance structures. Almost similar to what we had here in Zimbabwe during the GNU era, 2009 to 2013, the politics of winner takes all has left us poorer and more divided and frankly a laughing stock in the region. This cannot be amply emphasised than what we have just experienced in the last 24 hours to 48 hours in South Africa when one of our citizens ailing and in need of an operation was mocked by no more than a member of the provincial administration in South Africa.
It is important Madam President that this country appreciates that together and united, we are winners but the winner takes all mentality where the one that wins is the one that enjoys the protection and the benefits of the Constitution is not good for us. Those that constitute the members of the opposition are viewed in demeaning eyes and speech and are classified as sellers and people responsible for the negative outcomes, economic and sociological problems which our people are experiencing.
Our country needs to come up with a governance structure such as the one which we experienced in Rwanda where the opposition members can also be Presiding Officers in Parliament. The opposition members make up also the administrative arm of Government. To be in opposition is not to be an enemy. It is a good and worthy contribution to a multi-party democratic dispensation.
In closing Madam President Ma’am, the rights enshrined in the Constitution accrue to all Zimbabweans without regard for gender, ethnicity and race amongst other considerations. In this regard, I am firmly focusing my attention on the plight of intersex children that are born amongst us. The children that are born with this condition are normally subjected to unfair …
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order. If you can wind up, your time has lapsed.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Madam President. I am reading the last part. The plight of the intersex children demands our overdue attention. The forced so-called corrective surgery is not only cruel but inhumane and outright evil. These surgeries have a lasting and damaging impact upon these precious souls that most of them end up committing suicide or end up with permanent physical and mental trauma. The text said, stand at the cross-roads and look, ask for the ancient parts, ask where the good way is and walk in it and you will find rest to your souls but you said we will not walk. Let it not be said of Zimbabwe but you said we will not walk in it. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President, I would like to thank you for allowing me to conclude the report on the benchmark visit to Rwanda by the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development. I would also like to thank the Hon. Senators for robustly debating and making submissions. The majority of Senators sitting here today debated the report. I was taking down the number of Senators and it is almost 24 Senators that debated this report and I would really like to thank you. It is our fervent hope that the submissions made by the Hon. Senators who passionately debated, the lessons learnt from the visit in Rwanda are not going to be in vain. We are hoping that the responsible ministries are going to take appropriate measures to address some of the concerns which were raised by Hon. Senators in this august House.
There are important lessons to be learnt from their submissions, there are important lessons to be extracted from their submissions and from the report itself. I therefore seek leave of the House for the withdrawal of the motion Madam President.
Motion that this House takes note of the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the benchmarking visit to Rwanda on women participation in leadership, politics, decision-making positions and women empowerment in the socio-economic sector, with leave, withdrawn.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, seconded by HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE, the Senate adjourned at Sixteen minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 30th August 2022.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 24th August, 2022
The National Assembly Met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
MEETING WITH PRIMSON TRADING (PVT.) LTD
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Primson Trading (Pvt.) Ltd was engaged by Parliament to conduct an evaluation of the Institutional Strategic Plan 2018 to 2023 and the process is currently underway. To this end, they intend to meet the Chairperson and two Members from each Parliamentary Committee on Friday 26th August, 2022 as follows:
The Portfolio Committees on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs; Local Government and Thematic Committee on Human Rights at 09:00hrs in Committee Room No 1;
The Portfolio Committees on Mines and Mining Development and Lands, Agriculture, Water, Fisheries and Rural Development at 09:00hrs in the Senate Chamber;
The Portfolio Committees on Transport and Infrastructural Development; Energy and Power Development, and Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment at 09:00hrs in Committee Room No 2;
The Portfolio Committees on Media, Information and Broadcasting Services and ICT and Courier Services at 09:00hrs in Committee Room No 3;
The Portfolio Committees on Youths, Sport Arts and Recreation; Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development and Primary and Secondary Education at 09:00hrs in Committee Room No 4;
The Portfolio Committees on Health and Child Care; Women Affairs and Community Development and Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS at 11:00hrs in Committee Room No 1;
The Portfolio Committees on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services and Thematic Committee on Peace and Security at 11:00hrs in Committee Room No 2;
The Portfolio Committees on Budget, Finance and Economic Development; Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Public Accounts and Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals at 10:00hrs in Committee Room No 4.
TABLING OF REPORT
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER & TERTIARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I hereby lay upon the table the report of the Audit of Local Authorities in terms of Section 309 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe as read together with Section 10 (1) of the Audit Office Act, Chapter 22 (18) for the year ended 31st December, 2021.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE FOR THE SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NO. 33 (6), 53, 66 (2), 68 (5) AND 147
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Madam Speaker, I seek leave of the House to move that the provisions of Standing Orders No. 33 (6), 53, 66 (2), 68 (5) and 147 regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, the Automatic Adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. and at Twenty-five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday, Private Members motions taking precedence on Wednesdays after question time, that question time shall be on Wednesdays and stages of Bills respectively, be suspended until business relating to the supplementary budget has been disposed of.
Motion put and negatived.
HON. GONESE: On a point of Order Madam Speaker. My point of order relates to the connectivity challenges which we are facing. I have been trying to access Parliament internet but I cannot, though I have my gadgets. The Order Paper is now being sent to us electronically but unfortunately our emails are not accessible. Even when it relates to any other business relating to Parliament business, we have no access. What is being done concerning this challenge because we have been having this challenge for quite some time? May Hon. Members be enlightened as to what the root cause is and what Parliament Administration has been doing to try to rectify the problem so that we are able to contribute? Some of the issues that we wish to raise, we are now using the internet.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I am being told that the challenges are with the service providers but they are working hard to rectify it.
HON. T. MLISWA: I see that we have got an empty bench here. There are no Ministers and Deputy Ministers unless Hon. Nyabani and Hon. Matangira have been appointed Deputy Ministers without us knowing. To be honest with you, there are many questions that we would like to ask Ministers and they are not here, especially the Minister of Finance and – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There are some specific issues which require them. Deputy Ministers should at least be here to answer on behalf of the Ministers because Section 107 is very clear that Ministers, Deputy Ministers and Vice Presidents should be here. I also did not hear you read a list of apologies. That is my point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I hear your concerns. I have consulted the Government Chief Whip and he assured me that Hon. Ministers and Deputy Ministers are on their way to the House – [AN HON. MEMBER: From where?] – From their offices.
HON. T. MLISWA: I hear you Madam Speaker but the list of apologies is a procedural issue. The list of apologies should be read here....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Mliswa. There is only one apology from Hon. Prof. Mavima. The rest of the Ministers are coming.
HON. T. MLISWA: The list is usually read out and we know who is not present....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Only one Minister sent an apology – Hon. Prof. Mavima. The rest of the Ministers are coming
HON. T. MLISWA: Alright, we look forward to a full bench. Hon. Nyabani and Hon. Matangira, may you go to your normal seats so that when they come they sit there.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. MATANGIRA: My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. In his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of the House. What is Government policy on children who are born whilst their mother is incarcerated? What is the status of these children – is it ex-detainee? There are also people who were forced to live in ‘keeps’ – are they also ex-detainees?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): The Hon. Member’s question is difficult to answer because the policy states that ex-detainees are only adults and not fetuses, babies or children. I think the law should look into this but the truth is that ex-detainees were adults. I thank you.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Issues that we are seized with regarding rights pertain to trauma and the pain that young children went through whilst their parents were being victimised by the imperialist system. When you look at them, some of these children are still haunted by that trauma. In that regard, my question is that Government policy should consider children who were traumatised during incarceration of their parents so that they are given that status.
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. The supplementary question that was raised by Hon. Matangira, let me reiterate that there was no such policy. The only policy that was there speaks to adults who were incarcerated. However, the issue that is being raised is one that should be reviewed, not as ex-detainees but in a different manner. I thank you.
*HON. SHAVA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Health and Child Care but during his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of the House. What is Government policy on the measles outbreak for those parents who did not take their children for vaccination? What is Government planning regarding such children because they are dying? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. Today I am also the Acting Minister of Health and Child Care. In response to the question that was raised by Hon. Shava which is a pertinent question, because in the past few months, we have been having a measles outbreak that started in Makoni, Manicaland. Government policy is that every child should be vaccinated against communicable diseases.
As I am speaking, the Local Government, Civil Protection Unit and even the Ministry of Health and Child Care are working hard to disseminate information regarding the vaccination of children. The vaccination programme has been escalated and even yesterday in Cabinet, there was an agreement that every child should be vaccinated against these diseases. I thank you.
*HON. SHAVA: My supplementary question Madam Speaker Ma’am is; there are places where we know some infants are dying, getting buried and some are sick. I would give an example but I saw my Minister in this House. There is need for research in that area where you find people claiming that they were bewitched. Another child died last night as I am speaking.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your question Hon. Member?
*HON. SHAVA: My question is that our Ministry of Health and Child Care or the Leader of the House should send teams to such areas in order to ascertain the truth. If such children are found, then they should be vaccinated or treated because the parents are found to be vaccinating livestock whilst ignoring their children. I thank you.
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am and thank you Hon. Shava for the supplementary question. However, I think she was proffering recommendations as it was not a question as such. It is important that we know the area that the Hon. Member is talking about. We need that evidence so that we know what to do regarding that community because human lives are worth more than the lives of livestock. I thank you.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. My question to the Hon. Minister is that the issue that was raised by Hon. Shava is also happening in my constituency…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, you are not connected Hon. Murai.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister regarding the question that was raised. Are there penalties for perpetrators who violate the rights of children by ignoring the vaccination or treatment of children? We are losing a lot of lives. His Excellency, the President speaks about such issues. Is there a law that speaks to the negligence of children or neglecting the vaccination of children? Thank you.
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am for the supplementary question that was asked by Hon. Murai. Hon. Speaker Ma’am, the Constitution of Zimbabwe has a section on the right to life. In view of that, this is important because Zimbabwe is for the living. This means that we have a policy to the right to life. If there are issues that are known, that should be spoken about and corrected, and then this should be raised so that we solve the problem as it develops. The issue is the Constitution of Zimbabwe recognises the right to life. I thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: My point of recommendation to the Hon. Minister is that, can there be a public announcement through the national radio, television, et cetera when such an exercise is being done to make people aware and help officers including departmental heads in various districts to disseminate that information that every child is supposed to be vaccinated. It was the same again with COVID; other parents did not want to do that. We also talk about the very same constitutional provision of the right to life; that failure to do so, those parents will certainly face the full wrath of the law. So that is where you can get people to survive with you being very strong with them in terms of the law.
Hon. Shava’s point is very valid, people are dying there, and we also have got a Member of Parliament here, Hon. Muchimwe, who refused to be vaccinated. If he refused to be vaccinated and he belongs to a church, so the entire church will never be vaccinated. That is my point of recommendation and I think if it is broadcast all over that children must be vaccinated, it will help a lot – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –I also think it is important to communicate that those who do not comply with the vaccination programme of children should be prosecuted. I thank you
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! Hon. Matangira should withdraw the statement that ‘uku ndiko kunogara ngochani’ we can also retaliate but please withdraw that statement. Do not be a coward Hon. Matangira, shame on you! You say things that you cannot repeat even to your own children. You lie to your family if you cannot withdraw that statement– [HON. MATANGIRA: No I did not say that.]- You said it.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Matangira may you sit down! Hon. Mliswa you have spoken so that I should give a ruling but now you want to be the Chair, again which is not fair on me as the Speaker. Why do you use emotions? Hon. Matangira, may you withdraw your words.
HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Everyone who goes to court…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, may you withdraw your words – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MATANGIRA: I said that people from that side support homosexuality. I did not say there are homosexuals in this House. Honestly speaking, we have a lot of people who are in jail but who did not commit any offence. Anyway, I withdraw my words – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Matangira!
HON. CHIKOMBO: My question is directed to the Leader of Government Business. What is the policy pertaining to political parties that interfere in the execution of duties by independent bodies like Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) on delimitation? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The question is extremely vague I cannot even follow it.
HON. CHIKOMBO: What is the Government policy regarding politicians and Ministers who are supposed to uphold the sanctity of the Constitution but interfere with the operations of independent bodies like Zimbabwe Electoral Commission on delimitation? I thank you.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira! I will send you out if you continue with that behaviour.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The Constitution is instructive in that regard that those independent commissions, in so far as it pertains to their functions, they are independent and they are not under the direction of anyone. I thank you.
HON. CHIKOMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary is to the effect that on 11th July, Minister Ziyambi Ziyambi made a statement when he was addressing a political gathering to the effect that he is not going to allow the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission to do a process of delimitation and see it in a manner that will allow ZANU PF to be taken out of power. This is something that undermines Section 239, paragraph (f) of the Constitution. In this regard…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your question Hon. Member?
HON. CHIKOMBO: It is a supplementary question to the effect that Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi made a statement to the effect that he is not going to allow Zimbabwe Electoral Commission to do the process of delimitation and – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, he did that. He was recorded saying that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chikombo, was that statement made here in Parliament?
HON. CHIKOMBO: No, he was addressing a political gathering undermining the independence of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chikombo, we cannot discuss what is said on political rallies. We were not there and we cannot discuss about it.
HON. CHIKOMBO: He is a Minister who is duty bound to uphold and protect the Constitution. He is on duty. You can see his behaviour – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am an Hon. Member and the way he is addressing me is improper. He is undermining the independence of those bodies. What is the position? We want to make sure that the process of delimitation is done in a manner that is free, fair and credible. Election is a process and if you allow the process to be interfered by politicians, it means that we are going to have subjected elections.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chikombo, as I told you, we cannot discuss statements which are said on rallies here – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order. Hon. Minister, order please.
HON. PHULU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. In his absence, I direct it to the Leader of the House. In view of the fact that the bread basket amount for a family of six is at about $260 thousand, what steps is the Government taking to increase the earnings of pensioners to match the amount required to keep a family alive?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTAY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. This is a specific question that requires the Minister to come and respond in terms of the bread basket and the steps that are being taken. I suggest that the Hon. Member should put it in writing so that he can be given an informed response from the Minister. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Leader of Government Business. Hon. Phulu, please may you put your question in writing so that the responsible Minister will do some investigations and come to this House with a comprehensive answer. Thank you.
HON. PHULU: Madam Speaker, my question is not about the bread basket or the amount. What is the Government policy to bring the level of pensioners to where they can earn a living? Does the Government have such policy and what is that policy?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, that is not a policy question. Overtime the pension has been increased. The reason why I made reference to the fact that the Minister will come and give a statement is because in his preamble, he made reference to the current bread basket. This means that at a particular stage, the pension was sufficient. The question is not a policy issue but one which requires a review, taking into consideration the current trends. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Mliswa?
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I think this is a very pertinent issue which requires a ministerial statement because there is the aspect of inflation again. While they peg the amounts, there is inflation; so a ministerial statement would do for the Members to ask more questions. The pensioners are suffering and a ministerial statement is what I indulge you to rule. The Minister should bring a ministerial statement to talk about how the pensioners can also survive in spite of inflation.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa.
Hon. Markham having stood up.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. Hon. Government Chief Whip, please may you convey the message to the Minister of Public Service so that he will come with a Ministerial Statement regarding the matter which was raised.
HON. MARKHAM: We have been promised statements by the same Minister numerous times. The Chief Whip has been told numerous times to get statements and in my own case twice. We are supposed to be getting a Ministerial Statement on the inability of the Ministry of Health to pay their suppliers. To date, it is eight weeks since I asked the question and till now we have not had that Ministerial Statement. The second one is the Ministry of Home Affairs on people being turned around from the current registration of I.Ds and not getting them. The Speaker ruled that it was a directive from the President that no one should be left behind and to date, we have not had a statement. Now, whose office is supposed to follow up all these statements we get promises which are never delivered?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Government Chief Whip, please may you do a follow up on Hon. Markham’s issues.
HON. PHULU: What about my issues Madam Speaker because this arose from a Ministerial Statement that I have also been promised. It has been ruled that my question will be answered via a Ministerial Statement and my question is; will that Ministerial Statement likely to come?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Next week Hon. Member.
(v)*HON. MUNOCHINZWA: What is the Government policy regarding essential TB medicines availability?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): The question by the Hon. Member is what is our policy when it comes to making sure that TB drugs are available and she mentioned a specific drug. Government policy is to make sure that everyone in Zimbabwe, to the best of our ability, has access to health including access to essential drugs, including the one she has mentioned. In terms of policy, we are very clear that we want our people to have access to all essential medicines.
*HON. MLAMBO: My supplementary question is; since there is a deficit of medicines for people who are attacked by dogs, right now we are taking the patients to Mozambique for treatment. Are there any plans to get that medication if people are bitten by stray dogs?
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Hon. Speaker, our policy says we want all medication to be found in our health facilities. If there are other areas which do not have medication, it is very important to look into that issue and solve that. Our policy is very clear about the availability of medication. Yes, there might be lack of some medication in other areas but the policy says medication must be there in all health institutions.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: My supplementary is; we have heard that Government policy says medication must be available. Does it include the availability of other medications like the herbal medications which are coming from other countries without Government approval or laboratory tests? Many streets in Harare have a lot of herbal medicines. Does Government know the existence of unapproved herbal medicines and these might end up damaging the health of the people of Zimbabwe?
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: The Medicines Authority of Zimbabwe registers all medicines which must be used in the country. Yes, we might have other medications which are being sold unprocedurally or outside the law, it means that it is not the policy. If there are other medications which are herbal medicines, they are supposed to be registered under the traditional and herbal medicines. Hence we encourage people not to use medicines which were not properly examined and medications which we do not know where they are coming from. Government’s policy says if medication is not poisonous, it must be allowed to be used through thorough scrutiny.
HON. MURAI: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that what plan do you have so that we can stock our hospitals with drugs.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: The policy is very clear that we want to make sure that drugs are available to the best of our ability in our hospitals. The specific mention by the Hon. Member about lack of particular medicines at Parirenyatwa is not verified. The issue basically is that focusing on the policy level, we are working to make sure that medicines in our hospitals, together as Zimbabweans, are available. In this case, there is no them and us, it is all of us who must make sure that our medicines are available. So the policy is very clear on that.
The issue is that if there are particular cases of scarcity which might be due to logistical challenges, it would be very important for us to be given that specific information and we solve it. Otherwise when it comes to policy, the policy is very clear. We are here as a Ministry of Health and Child Care to make sure that children and adults are given healthcare.
HON. KWARAMBA: What is Government’s policy on pension withdrawal limits?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON CHIDUWA): I think this is a specific question but in terms of the current position that I know with regards to the convenience that we have created for the pensioners, there is no limit on withdrawals. I submit.
HON. KWARAMBA: If I heard you correctly, you said there is no limit but pensioners are complaining that when they go to the bank, they are given Z$5000 as the weekly limit which is not enough for bus fare and other needs. Is it not possible for pensioners to withdraw all the amount at once?
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order, the Hon. Minister is misrepresenting facts because he is very much aware that there is a policy that you cannot withdraw more than Z$5000 per week. It is a policy actually and the Minister is trying to tell the House that there is no limit which is not true. Can the Minister either modify his answer and not confirm that it is true that you can withdraw more than Z$5000?. It is a policy that Z$5000 is the maximum.
HON. CHIDUWA: When I submitted my response, I said this is a specific question. There is a policy that there is a limit of Z$5000 - but for pensioners, we say there is no limit.
HON. MUSARURWA: My supplementary question is that what plans are there by Government to raise the maximum withdrawal limit?
HON. CHIDUWA: As I said, this is a specific question and what is needed first is for me to go and verify if there is a limit. If there is a limit, then I think it is an issue of us speaking to the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe so that the limit can be taken up. The House can give me time to go and verify.
HON. MUSARURWA: I am not satisfied with the answer from the Minister. Does this mean that the Minister does not know we have a withdrawal limit? Does he not know that there is withdrawal limit of Z$5000 per week?
*HON. CHIDUWA: I did say that the $5000 limit is there but we were asked this question again here in Parliament and we liaised with the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe to remove the limit and also negotiated for dedicated tellers for the convenience of pensioners so they do not stand in long queues. So I think this is just a question of implementation and I should go and check if what we agreed on is being implemented. Pensioners should not be given a limit but should be allowed to withdraw all their funds and not stand in queues. That is why I asked your indulgence to go and verify and if there are any problems, I will come back and report to you.
*HON. MUSARURWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. When we ask about such issues, we are not only asking on behalf of pensioners but it should be for every Zimbabwean. When he goes to check on what is happening, he should ask for the implementation to be for everyone. Some people are not pensioners but are always ill and cannot even go to withdraw money to go to hospital. So it should benefit everyone. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you are requested to go and do your investigations then come back with a Ministerial Statement pertaining to maximum limits of amounts being withdrawn by pensioners and the generality of the public.
*HON. CHITURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Since we are getting to the planting season, what plans does government have in place for the elderly who cannot dig the required holes so that they can get the Pfumvudza inputs? In the rural areas, the Extension officers are only writing the names of those who will have dug the holes and those who cannot will not get the inputs.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The government policy is that everyone should get the Pfumvudza inputs. If it is happening anywhere, that is not what we agreed to in relation to distribution of Pfumvudza inputs. Policy does not say only those who will have dug holes should get but everyone should be given.
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: The Minister did say government policy says everyone should get but that is not what is happening on the ground in rural areas. I need to know how we can resolve that so that everyone is given as per government policy.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: If they are being denied the Pfumvudza inputs they should go to their State Minister or write to the Ministry of Agriculture because it is now a specific question. What we agreed to as government is for everyone to be given the Pfumvudza inputs. If there are some who are being denied, it needs follow up because I cannot respond as to why they are not being given but the Ministry of Agriculture will be in a better position to investigate why the agreed position is not being implemented on the ground.
*HON. MLAMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport. What is government policy pertaining to people who faced the disaster and infrastructure that was destroyed during Cyclone Idai? It is now three to four years and our roads are still in the same state that the disaster left them in. This is specifically in Chipinge East and West. I can give you the names of the roads that are in very bad shape after the disaster.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): I want to thank the Hon Member for such a pertinent question. The Hon. Member raised two issues and one of them is within Local Government mandate because they are the ones seized with issues to do with
Unanticipated disasters in our country such as cyclones or earthquakes. The second issue that he raised is core to Government. We know that in Copa Joppa in Chipinge, those are the areas that were mostly affected and there was a lot of damage in that area especially during Cyclone Idai. We are in the process of revamping that road as well as the other road that is in Chikukwa. I believe that the Hon. Member is hearing about some of the roads in Chipinge we are in the process of rehabilitating another road which is at Chikukwa area. I believe the Hon. Member knows some of the places that are mentioned which are in Chipinge and Chimanimani but that is not the end of it all. We know that we have funds that come from Government which are meant for road rehabilitation. Even through the supplementary budget, I believe that after this meeting, Hon. Mlambo, let us sit down and brainstorm. We cannot work on one road but we know that there are major roads which can be worked on in Chipinge and Chimanimani for this particular year, then we can reconvene and discuss other roads. I thank you.
HON. MLAMBO: I have a supplementary question, last year we were told that the Mt. Selinda-Border Road will be rehabilitated in January but this did not happen. That road is dilapidated. There are some agricultural produce which are supposed to be exported but it is really difficult when using that road. The Chipinge and other roads – it is now four years after Cyclone Idai, the Hon. Minister mentioned Chimanimani, so I do not know whether it is political....
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mlambo, may you put your question in writing.
*HON. MLAMBO: Madam Speaker, it is easy because the Hon. Minister spoke about Chimanimani but Chipinge was equally affected. My request......
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, may you put your question in writing so that the Ministry will come with a Ministerial Statement after carrying out investigations.
(v)HON. TARUSENGA: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What is Government’s policy on electrification of new urban residential and rural development areas?
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): The policy of Government is that whenever there is a new settlement especially in urban areas, electricity must be provided.
HON. PHULU: On a point of order, the question was about the status in rural and urban areas.
(v)HON. TARUSENGA: I have a supplementary question Hon. Speaker Ma’am. Do customers pay their money for materials for electrification?
HON. SODA: We have two facilities by which people can be provided with electricity. The first one in rural areas is where the Government subsidises 100% for the infrastructure that is constructed. Usually we will be targeting the public – [HON. MAVENYENGWA: Inaudible interjection.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mavenyengwa.
HON. SODA: For rural provisions, there are two facilities where the Government subsidises 100% for construction of the infrastructure and the target is public institutions like schools, hospitals, clinics and also chiefs’ homesteads. Still in rural areas, there are some connections that are customer driven and for these, if people come in groups of ten, then they are subsidised 50%; they contribute 50% of the value of the infrastructure that has to be constructed.
In urban areas where customers would have constructed their houses and they find that ZETDC would be delaying to construct the backbone infrastructure to provide them with electricity, that becomes customer provided materials facility. The customers provide their own materials and also even hire services for the construction of the power lines and ZESA does the inspections to ascertain if the construction meets with the standards for connection. Once that is done, the cost for that infrastructure is then provided back to the customers through electricity units. Ultimately, the infrastructure will be owned by the power utility. That is a facility which is available. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. MADZIMURE: My supplementary question is; can the Minister confirm that this also applies to things like security that is provided for transformers by customers and because of the vandalism on transformers, customers are now putting screens to protect against vandalism? Does the same model apply to the funds that would have been used to secure transformers?
HON. SODA: Target hardening for equipment is the responsibility of ZETDC but where customers find that it would be the best method for them to protect their equipment and provide their materials, currently that does not apply to repayments to customers if they protect their transformers. They will not be given electricity units like I have already indicated, that is the responsibility of ZETDC. When they find that a transformer is exposed and they want it to be protected through target hardening like erecting screens around it – that is the responsibility of ZETDC. I thank you.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to know how long a delay is addressed, for instance, households that do not have electricity connections for 15 years or more? If a community is affected and has gone through 15 or 20 years, then there should be clarity on when this delay should be addressed. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, I was trying to understand the question, if I understood well from Hon. Mhona who interpreted for me. The question was, there are customers who have been waiting to be connected for more than 15 years. What is Government doing to ensure that the customers are connected? Was that the question? – [HON. BITI: The delays!] –
The first thing is to understand the reason why that happened. Currently, the struggle is on the funding for projects, especially putting up the backbone infrastructure to allow for customers to be connected. Once ZETDC gets adequate funding, those projects will be connected. I would prefer that the Hon. Member, if that is specific to a particular area that she knows, she could give me the details so that we make follow-up on the particular area as to why it has taken that long before customers are connected but the constrain is on funding. I thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. I see that the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement has done well in removing District Land Officers who were very corrupt in the distribution of land but the chief culprits again are the DDCs. A good example is Chegutu where we visited the DDC for Chegutu, Mr. Tomu with the war veterans wanting to know what has been happening to their land. He was very rude and they continued asking him that have we come to you …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please may you ask the question Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: The question is that the Development District Coordinators (DDCs) are very corrupt they are the Chairpersons of the Lands Committee as a result; removing the Lands Officers is not good enough. We want to know when they are going to rotate the District Development Coordinators just like the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement has done? Also, may other ministries follow suit by changing them around because corruption still happens as the DDCs still protect the outgoing Lands Officers who are there. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am and thank you very much Hon. Mliswa for that question. My Ministry does not have a policy of rotating the DDCs but whenever there is anyone who is corrupt, we have tried to address case by case. If you have any issues with Chegutu, I will appreciate if you can highlight it but it has not come to my office that we have corrupt officials there. I thank you but my Ministry will do the best it can to make sure we address it if that is happening.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I do not think that it has to be policy; it is a good culture, no wonder why police officers are shifted around to avoid corruption. So for the Ministry not to have such a policy actually confirms the rumours that the Ministers are using them to be corrupt thus they do not get moved around. There is no civil servant who cannot be moved around. Civil servants must be moved around so that there is no corruption but her answer now affirms the fact that the Ministers keep them there so that they continue with corrupt activities because they are the head hunters and so forth. I am shocked that there is no policy to rotate civil servants to avoid corruption…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The question is?
HON. T. MLISWA: The question is the reason why they are not moved around is it because you use them for corrupt purposes?
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am and thank you Hon. Mliswa for that follow-up question. No, we do not use them to perpetuate corrupt practices but you have brought up a good suggestion that maybe rotating them will hinder corrupt tendencies. We will try to make sure that we also use that within the Ministry. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Hon. Minister, there are a lot of educated teachers in my constituency but we find that teachers are being recruited from other districts. What is Government policy regarding the deployment of teachers in their areas of origin? This is an area of concern in my constituency. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I would like to thank Hon. Nyabani for his question on complains that there are qualified teachers from his constituency but the Government is employing teachers from other districts instead of taking from that particular area. I am going to take up the issue with Hon. Prof. Mavima so that the issue is looked into in order to eliminate discrimination.
HON. T. MLISWA: My understanding of this question is devolution. Once you devolve power then it becomes easy. The question really is; when is the Devolution Bill coming to Parliament because once there is a law then there is no need for this. I think the Minister of Local Government and Public Works is best to answer that because the Devolution Bill gives powers to provinces. I also look forward to seeing issues of corruption being curbed in local authorities because there will now be oversight.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): The Devolution Bill is within the Attorney General’s office, therefore I cannot really specify when it will be out.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker, before I answer that question, I had alluded to the fact that we do not have discriminatory laws that pertain to recruitment of teachers. I have just been alerted that there is indeed a notice by the Public Service Commission giving effect to what I was saying specifically for the areas that the Hon. Member is referring to.
Those that are desirous to go and work in those districts have been directed to their respective district offices in those particular areas. So the problem is not with the Head Office but perhaps with those particular Public Service officials within that particular district who are taking people from outside, but the applications according to the notice are supposed to be directed to the specific district offices within the area where the recruitment is supposed to happen.
Coming to the supplementary question on the Devolution Bill, the current position is that we have had shortages of drafters within the Drafting Department. I sought Treasury concurrence for us to hire drafters on a part time basis and I have given the Attorney General up to Friday to come up with a timeframe on how they are going to do it with a view of ensuring that those Bills are drafted this year. We have to deal with them before the elections to avoid the problems that we have been having.
There are several Bills that we need to deal with such as the Provincial and Metropolitan Council Bills, the Urban Councils Bill, the Electoral Act - all those Bills we have specifically given the Attorney General a timeframe to say that Treasury is in agreement that we can get part time drafters for now so that we can expedite that process. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am glad that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has alluded to the fact of the law being looked at by the Attorney General’s office and that the AG’s office is looking for drafters. Has the Minister also told the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to stop distributing money until there is a law? It cannot go with that, they have been distributing money when the law is not there and the Minister is a very knowledgeable learned person. Disbursing money where there is no law is illegal.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, this august House agreed to the release of those funds and this was pursuant to the Constitutional provision that says 5% of the budget must be given as devolution funds and this House passed that. I believe within the framework that is there, a mechanism that was legal was found to ensure that we comply with the 5% that was required by the Constitution.
HON. BITI: Section 301 of the Constitution deals with the distribution of funds to provisional authorities and local authorities that are set up in terms of Chapter 14 of the Constitution. Therefore, that law must be there as an Act of Parliament will provide for the distribution of resources based on certain principles that are in Section 301, for instance the development or lack thereof in that provision.
The law is clear. Distribution of resources is conditional upon the enactment by Parliament of the law envisaged in Section 301. The question still remains begging - why is the Government distributing resources when that law envisaged in Section 301 has not been enacted?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I indicated that this debate was supposed to have been done when we were debating the budget and we agreed to appropriate such funds to local authorities. So because we appropriated it, the relevant Ministry then used the existing legislation like the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act to ensure that funds are channeled through the relevant statutes that were there. We need now to align with the Constitution and also ensure that we also come up with the Provincial Councils Act to give effect to what Hon. Biti is saying. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is; in view of the fact that there is no law controlling 5% of our Budget, who is making the decision of where the money goes?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, there is a law that we used to disburse the money. That is the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act. Funds were channelled to the existing local authorities that are there, which is consistent with the constitutional provision that Hon. Biti spoke about. Thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: On a point of order Madam Speaker. My question is - who distributes the funds? Who makes the decision that City of Harare gets that amount of money because it is illegal in my view?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, this part of the question is not policy. The funds were disbursed to Ministry of Local Government. Perhaps they can answer as to how they distributed the money. I would digress and give a false answer. Thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, can we have a ruling on whether we can have a statement from the Minister?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Thank you very much Hon. Markham for the follow up question. There is a formula that we use on distribution of devolution funds. It goes on the number of people and the poverty level as well as the infrastructure. That is what we use to appropriate the devolution funds. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Madam Speaker, the real question is that they said they use the Rural and Urban Councils Act. We would like to know which section empowers them to distribute money. Secondly, we would also like a breakdown of the money which has been disbursed so far to all the local authorities. The Hon. Deputy Minister is on record in this House saying that there is a law which is coming here. If that law is not important, why is it coming here? They are contradicting themselves. They are saying there is a law we use and there is a law coming here. What is the point of bringing the law here when you are already doing things which are lawful? It means you are doing things which are unlawful and you are working on a law which will make you do things properly.
We would like to know the laws they are using to disburse the money and not only that Madam Speaker, it goes to the provincial councils which are supposed to be in place. As MPs, we are supposed to sit on those provincial councils. While the law is being changed, the current law allows us to. Which MP here has sat on the provincial council? The role of the provincial council is to monitor and evaluate. That is why Hon. July Moyo fears coming to this House. He knows that he is doing something unlawful. My prayer is; we want Hon. July Moyo not the Deputy Minister anymore. We want the Minister who sits in Cabinet to come here with a breakdown of all the money disbursed to which authorities and which law he is using. Why is he also bringing a law here? I think it is a bit too heavy for her. She does not sit in Cabinet. Let us have the Minister who sits in Cabinet who is always absent here. He is busy going to all the local authorities collecting his 10%. That is why he is not here.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Thank you very much Hon. Mliswa. My Ministry sticks to section 301 of the Constitution. If you go down, it says it empowers us to disburse using the existing structures. Those are the ones that we use.
HON. BITI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Section 301 says, “an Act of Parliament must provide for (a) the equitable allocation of capital grants between provincial and metropolitan councils; (b) any other allocations”. So an Act of Parliament must be enacted. So it is not the Constitution, it is an Act of Parliament which must be enacted, which then allows disbursements to provincial councils and that Act of Parliament is not there. In the absence of that Act of Parliament, she and July Moyo cannot use devolution funds as a slash fund to steal from the people of Zimbabwe as they are doing.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Madam Speaker and I thank you Hon. Biti for highlighting that. I think this question has been brought up several times in Parliament and the answers have been the same. We just have to wait for the Act to be finalised. I thank you.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, I am not a lawyer but when the Minister says this same question has been asked before, this is taking Members of Parliament for granted. The Constitution is clear and there are laws which govern this House. That is the arrogance of some of these people and that is why some live in Kenya and South Africa. It is because of arrogance. Why do they not respond to the dictates of the Constitution? The Constitution was written when those laws were there and it was so specific. Where is the law?
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, remember I requested for a ministerial statement. We are burdening the Deputy Minister. This is way beyond her capacity. As such, the Minister who sits in Cabinet must come here with the ministerial statement. First of all, we want a breakdown of monies allocated to each authority because right now we are going through a budget and we shall not pass that Vote until you account because we cannot be giving you money to go and steal and plunder. We now want to make sure that you bring a statement with the authorities that you have given money to and the law which clearly gives them the power to do that. You see Hon. Ziyambi is now reading the Constitution because he is seeing there is something wrong - mukaona gweta rehurumende rakudai. My prayer Madam Speaker is can we have the breakdown and the law but the Minister himself must be here because he sits in Cabinet, she does not sit in Cabinet. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa, I am sure the Deputy Minister has noted your concerns.
Questions without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order 68.
ANNOUNEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONNECTIVITY CHALLENGES
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those Members who are facing connectivity challenges should bring their gadgets to ICT Department for updating and the ICT Department will be stationed at the Members’ Dining Hall tomorrow.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MEASURES TO ADDRESS PLIGHT OF PENSIONERS
- HON. CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House on the measures being taken by the Government to address the plight of pensioners who are spending more than five days queuing at banks in an effort to withdraw their meagre pension payouts.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Pensioners are indeed experiencing challenges in accessing their monthly pensions in banks, particularly at CABS, National Building Society, POSB, Steward Bank and NMB. CABS for example is using a new banking system which pensioners are not well versed with, hence most are failing to withdraw their income using ATM cards and consequently, tellers spend more time assisting clients on how to use the new system.
We also see resistance to new technology by pensioners, as some insist on getting cash from the banks instead of using ATM cards for purchasing goods and services. Some banks have introduced incentives for pensioners to transact using their bank cards, for instance applying zero charge for such transactions.
I now turn to some of the strategies that banks are applying to deal with the matter. In order to decongest the banking halls, CABS has introduced Super Agencies in Norton, Chitungwiza, Budiriro, Highfield and Greendale to assist in cash withdrawals. Currently the bank is conducting an awareness campaign through road shows, radio and websites.
National Building Society (NBS) has established a special banking hall in Bulawayo starting next week, and is making collaborative effort with Metro Peach Supermarket to serve the pensioners as an Agency, in order to reduce long queues. Queues are usually long in the morning, hence some banks, for example NBS, have made deliberate strategies to open the bank at 7 am and by midday, would have cleared the long queues. The bank also has a pool of contract staff that is hired during peak period in an effort to reduce queues.
The NMB has introduce a virtual withdrawal system where the client access all the banking services digitally and goes to the banking hall to provide the reference number to the teller. Steward Bank has introduced the Steward Bank “Vanyarikani queue” where the elderly and physically challenged are prioritised. Some banks strategy is to employ more staff in order to decongest the banking halls. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, with respect, the Minister does not answer the real question. The main reason why pensioners are suffering is that there is a maximum withdrawal limit of RTGS$5 000 per week. So, for a pensioner, it becomes a waste of time waiting for weeks just to collect RTG$5 000 per week. The Minister needs to address that issue of the limit per week Madam Speaker. That is what the Minister needs to address. It is not this bank, CABS or whatever; it is the policy decision that places an upper limit on withdrawal that is fixing pensioners plus the paltry or meagreness of the amount that pensioners are collecting. The RTGS$5 000 is US$5 and you cannot collect US$5 per day Madam Speaker. That is the real question which the Minister must answer.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I think the Hon. Member has added an auxiliary question and that is okay. The question that I answered had to do with the strategies that are being employed to deal with queues and I am explaining what the various institutions are doing. The auxiliary question is good and I have approached the Central Bank to review that limit of RTGS$5 000 so that the amount withdrawn per day is more meaningful and also just to respond to inflationary pressures. That is being dealt with in addition to the measures that I have explained that individual banks are taking. I thank you.
HON. R. R.NYATHI: Mine is a special request to the Minister of Finance that it would be better for all our pensioners not to have a cap because most of our pensioners are from the rural areas and you cannot expect somebody to pay US$10 for bus fare and spend five days waiting to be given your money. What is ideal is that when our Minister of Finance goes to see the RBZ Governor he should request that all pensioners must be given their money as soon as they get to the bank so that they can go back home and do their chores rather than to keep them in towns. If you do that Hon. Minister, we would be most grateful.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Nyathi for the proposal. It is a very good one. Certainly when I have further conservations with the Reserve Bank, I will put that on the table so that they mull over it.
HON. WATSON: With all due respect Hon. Minister, when you swipe, the charges are cumulative. Pensioners like to draw cash because they can use it at once. The civil service pensioners are also complaining that when they withdraw the US dollars, the charges are varying. There needs to be some standardisation and understanding of pensioners’ issues.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Watson for that observation and suggestion that we should look into the bank charges across banks because they are varied and perhaps there should be a way in which this should be standardised. That is unpalatable to our pensioners and we should make every effort to standardise them in a manner that is affordable for our pensioners. Again when I have the conversation with the central bank, I will also put this on the table so that it is dealt with. I thank you.
DETAILS AND VALUE OF AGREEMENTS MADE WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF CHINA
- HON MARKHAM asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to provide details and the value of the agreements made with the Government of China including further information on the following:
a) grants received;
b) loans or any other borrowings;
c) joint ventures of Public Private Partnerships (PPPs);
d) the exports and natural based resources in the country, part of the agreements; and
e) the investment incentives granted to each project, assistance received and investment made by the Government of China.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I want to thank the Hon. Member for that question. In response I want to start with the grants that Government has received from China.
New Parliament Building
The People’s Republic of China availed a grant to the tune of US$145 million for the construction of the new Parliament Building in Mt. Hampden. The project began in December 2018 and was completed in June 2022 and has a capacity of 400 seats for the National Assembly Members, 150 seats for the Senate Chamber and extra facilities for conferencing, 15 committee rooms and space for office staff and parking.
National Pharmaceutical Warehouse
In addition, the People’s Republic of China set aside approximately US$24 million for the construction of the National Pharmaceutical Warehouse in Harare which was also completed in June 2022 with the warehouse set to hold approximately 10 000 pellets of medicine.
500 Boreholes
To help ease the water crises, the People’s Republic of China funded the construction of 500 boreholes in Masvingo and Matabeleland provinces.
COVID-19 Mitigation Assistance
To mitigate the impact of COVID 19 pandemic, the Chinese Government renovated and upgraded Zimbabwe’s main isolation centre at Wilkins Hospital and donated 2 000 000 surgical masks, 90 000 test kits, 137 ventilators and oxygenators, 152 500 protective suits, 560 000 protective gowns, 500 000 syringes, and 1 900 000 doses of vaccines.
Also a 10 member team of medical experts from China were brought in with a consignment of medical supplies including ventilators, nucleic acid testing kits, face masks and medical protective suits.
Chinese Aid – Cyclone Idai
The People’s Republic of China availed US$800 000 emergency humanitarian assistance to the people affected by Clycone Idai as well as rehabilitation of critical infrastructure damaged by Cyclone Idai. The Embassy of the People’s Republic of China in Zimbabwe signed an agreement with the local UNDP Office to provide roofing materials to community housing and selected health and educational facilities in Chimanimani and Chipinge.
Furthermore, China led the rehabilitation and recovery programme in areas that were ravaged by Cyclone Idai by tasking six Chinese companies operating locally to undertake the repair of roads and power infrastructure, drill boreholes, build houses and communication networks.
Since 1980, Zimbabwe contracted loans from China amounting to approximately US$2.7 billion. I have a schedule of contracted loans but let me read them through. For example, there is IDC Phase 1 loan which is US$14.6 million which was signed on 8 May 1997. There is IDC Phase 2, US$7 million signed on 19th January, 2000. There is DDF equipment project of US$8.6 billion signed on 23rd February, 2001. All these loans are coming through the China-Exim Bank which is owned by the People’s Republic of China. There is Sinosure, ZISCO Steel facility of US$54.9 million signed on 15th August, 2012. There is agriculture equipment loan of US$29.2 million signed on 30th October, 2006. There is also an additional agricultural project loan signed on 22nd February, 2008 amounting to US$37.6 million.
There is NetOne National Mobile Broadband project loan facility of US$68 million signed on 26th June, 2019. All that we have raised was extended through the China-Exim Bank. I now turn to the National Defence Phase 2 facility, through the China Development Bank signed in 1985 on 20th July. That was US$6.2 million. Then National Defence Project again Phase 3, through the China Development Bank signed in 1986 on 22nd December, that is US$7.7 million. There is a US$200 million farm mechanisation equipment facility signed on 13th October, 2006, through China-Exim Bank.
There is NetOne project as well through China-Exim Bank signed on 1st June, 2010, that is US$41.8 million. There is National Defence College facility of US$98.7 million signed on 21 March, 2011, through China-Exim Bank. There is the Victoria Falls International Airport facility of US$149.9 million signed on 5th April, 2012. There is NetOne Phase 2 project, through China-Exim Bank signed on 25th August, 2014 and that is for US$198.8 million. There is ZPC Kariba South Hydro project of US$390.5 million signed on 11th November, 2013. There is TelOne Backbone network again through China-Exim bank signed on 1st December, 2015. This amounted to US$98.6 million.
There is Harare International Airport facility of US$152.8 million signed on 4th April, 2018, through China-Exim Bank as well. Then Hwange 7 and 8 expansion facility of about a billion, US$997.7 million signed on 1st December, 2015 again through China-Exim Bank. There is Sinosure Medical equipment project of about US$90 million signed on 21st March, 2011, through China-Exim Bank. Finally, the Sinosure City of Harare facility of US$140.8 million signed on 21st March 2011, again through China-Exim Bank. If we add all those numbers, they amount to US$2.722.4 billion.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, out of the loans that I have mentioned, US$152 million worth of loans have since matured and are fully paid up. I have got a second schedule which shows loans that are fully paid up.
The outstanding debt to China as at August, 2022 amount to US$1.768 billion. What we will do here, again it means what is in Table 2, if we remove that, the remainder is US$1.768 billion.
In Table 2, we have IDC Phase 1 amounting to US$14.6 million signed on 8th August, 1997, through China-Exim Bank. There is IDC Phase 2 signed on 19th January, 2000 amounting to US$7 million, through China-Exim Bank. We have DDF Equipment project of US$8.6 million signed on 23rd February, 2001 again from China-Exim Bank. There is Sinosure-M of-ZISCO Steel amounting to US$54.8 million signed on 15th August, 2012, from China-Exim Bank. There is Agriculture-Mechanisation Equipment and Implements Project 1 worth US$29.2 million signed on 13th October, 2006 from China-Exim Bank. There is the Equipment and Implements Project 2 worth US$37. 6 million signed on 22nd February, 2008 again through China-Exim Bank. The outstanding debt to China stood at US$1.768 billion as at 22 August, 2022.
I now turn to category C of the question from Hon. Markham, regarding the private-public-partnerships (PPPs). The joint venture agreements processed through ZIDA are as follows: Here again I am focusing on China PPPs, I am assuming the question was only focusing on China.
The first one is the Mhangura Dumps PPP, focusing on copper production. It is worth US$10 million. It was signed between ZMDC and Zhi Jui Mining Resource Private Limited. This is a five year contract mining arrangement where ZMDC is engaging Zhi Jui Mining Resource for treatment of copper dumps at Mhangura. It is a five-year contract. It was signed in June, 2021.
The second one is a partnership between ZMDC Sim See and Honghua International for the resuscitation of Angwa Shaft mine and processing of copper dump at Chidzikwe. This arrangement is worth US$20.2 million. It is a 10-year arrangement and the contract was signed in September, 2021. The last one is a US$66.6 million project which is a partnership between Dinson Iron and Steel Company (DISCO) for the construction of 100 km electricity power line from Sherwood to Manhize. It is a US$66.6 partnership between DISCO and ZETDC, a subsidiary of ZESA holdings. That will be for the construction of a 100 km power line from Sherwood to Manhize and that will include a substation. It is a five-year arrangement and the project has just been approved by Cabinet. The contract has been signed. It is paving way for the project to commence. This ends my report on the PPPs.
I now turn to the last section of the question from Hon. Markham pertaining to the export and national base resources, including those that are enshrined in agreements. Government contracted a US$200 loan in October, 2006 for the farm mechanisation equipment. The loan was collateralised with mining rights to the 26 million ounces of platinum resources in Selous which were owned by Government through the Zimbabwe Mining Development (ZMDC). The loan is currently in arrears amounting to US$172 million. This was to be implemented following the fulfilling of certain conditions, which included validation of the resources that were used as security and determination of the amount of the resources according to internationally accepted funders and valuation funders. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for his answer. I just need clarity on one point. The issue of the power line, the joint venture. The power line from Sherwood to Mvuma, confirm that joint venture is only for the power line and not for the mine? I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Markham for really giving us the opportunity to explain a lot of things. I thank him for his detailed question. Certainly, the joint venture is just about the power line. What is really going on is that ZESA was unable to make the necessary investment on the 100km evacuation power line. So the partner who is vested in the mine made an offer to finance the power line through a joint venture arrangement so as to get power to operate the mine and produce the carbon steel. That is the arrangement but that JV is only on the development or investment on the power line. I thank you.
HON. BITI: I have got two questions to the esteemed Minister. You said that the amounts we owe to China are about US$1.7b but your mathematics is not adding up because you said total indebtedness to China was US$2.7b and you have only paid US$152m. So if you subtract US$152m from US$2.7b, it does not give you US$1.7b but it is about 2.6b.
My substantive question however pertains to the loan you referred to of 2006 which was for US$200m. So, Government of Zimbabwe borrowed US$200m from China to purchase farm mechanisation equipment but you said this loan was collateralised by 26m ounces of platinum. If you do rough mathematics, assuming the price of platinum for an ounce is US$2000, you are talking of US$52b for the 26m ounces. How is it possible that the Government can borrow US$200m from China and give an asset which in gross terms is US$52b?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: This arrangement was struck way back in October 2006, I think before the buoyant prices that you see in the PGM sector were available for us to enjoy. So, I think in a sense, he is requesting that some of these arrangements should be looked into given the high prices that are currently out there. Certainly, for me as the Finance Minister is something I would want to look at closely and see how best this can be structured so that a good will loan from China is dealt with and serviced properly on the back of a properly valued asset. That is what I said at the end that this arrangement is subject to proper resource evaluation and the current prices that he mentioned matter. We will look into it to ensure that the lender is dealt with fairly for their good gesture while the debtor, who is ourselves, is adequately treated the right way in this regard. I thank you.
ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS ENTERED INTO WITH FIDELITY REFINERY PRINTERS
4. HON. MARKHAM asked the Hon Minister of Finance and Economic Development to explain:
- the arrangement for the public/private partnership recently entered into with Fidelity Refinery Printers.
- the number of investors who were part on the PPP including representatives of the investors and respective shareholder capacities.
- the details of the investment and whether the investment was advertised or tendered.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I assume this question is confined to Fidelity Gold Refineries. I want for the record to state that there is no PPP that we have entered into. What we had announced was something that we thought was a good idea which was to partially privatise Fidelity Gold Refineries has been suspended indefinitely. We will look into it in future once we have overhauled the company sufficiently so that we get good value for money from whoever comes in to invest in the company. So at the moment, all PPPs in terms of investments have been suspended indefinitely.
HON. MARKHAM: I want to thank the Minister but the reason for asking the question is that this House was told that the PPP was virtually done. That was nearly a year ago and since then, we have heard nothing. No one has asked the question but the point is we do not know what is happening on investment, whether it is PPPs, Grants or loans. Hence my previous question on the Chinese, no one in this House knew the amount of investment from China and the value. I implore the Minister to let us know what is happening live while it is happening. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I think that is a good and constructive comment from Hon. Markham which is that I should use every opportunity to update this august House on any investments, divestures or PPPs that are significant. This House ought to know and I agree with that. I shall use every opportunity to do so in the future. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Hon. Speaker Ma’am I am concerned with the very idea of wanting to privatise Fidelity Gold Refinery. We are a gold producing country and we have one gold refinery owned by the Government of Zimbabwe and the people of Zimbabwe through the Reserve Bank’s company known as Fidelity Gold Refiners and Printers. It eludes my wisdom why you would want to dispose of that gold refinery given the strategic nature of gold in our country. Secondly, I need guarantees from the Minister that should they run astray again and think that they can dispose of Fidelity Gold Refinery, should they seek Parliamentary approval as those assets are owned by the people of Zimbabwe who are represented by the august representative in this august House. Surely they should ask Parliament.
Lastly, there has been a spate of privatisations. There has been a spate of disposals of key strategic assets owned by the Government of Zimbabwe. Why is that process being done outside Parliament, for instance ZB Bank has been privatised, First Mutual Life was divested from NSSA and another big bank was also divested from the State, gold mines have been divested from the State, Bindura Nickel (BNC) has been divested from the State. Why are privatisations occurring nocturnally or nicodemously, in the shadow of darkness outside Parliament? Who are the purchasers? Are we getting good value? Has there been due diligence and why is the framework designed by the Government through the Privatisation Agency of Zimbabwe being ignored and diverted? Willard Manungo is sitting heading the Privatisation Agency of Zimbabwe but all these privatisations are taking place outside the scrutiny of the Privatisation Agency of Zimbabwe. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Biti for that follow up question. I will be very happy to provide a report twice a year to this august House on the divesture activity around our State owned enterprises. Previously I have been providing some information in the Budget Statement but I will be happy to provide detailed information, transaction by transaction or just give an update on the process of the restructuring of State owned enterprises. I think that is a very important and pragmatic request.
Then on the issue of indemnity, specifically as I said, that has been suspended. Hon. Members should not have any worries about us proceeding with that. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Supplementary...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Biti, you cannot ask two supplementary questions.
HON. BITI: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker Maam – it is not that we need to be told post facto. The point I am making is that as a question of law, Parliament should provide approval of the acquisition and disposal that is not happening. Can the good Minister give us assurances that he will come to Parliament to seek parliamentary approval for the disposal of assets. Assets are part of the Consolidated Revenue Fund (CRF) – any public assets are part of the CRF. We control the CRF and that is why he is persuading us to pass the supplementary budget. We control public assets. We need the undertaking from him that he will not privatise Zimbabwean assets without the approval of Parliament. I thank you Madam Speaker Maam.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I will certainly approach Parliament and seek its approval on the disposal of assets going forward.
On Question 5:
THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES (HON. SIMBANEGAVI): What is the question Hon. Madam Speaker?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Question Number 5 written on the Order Paper.
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: I do not have the Order Paper Madam Speaker Maam. Can we defer the question?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: So you mean you do not have the answer to the question or you did not bring it to the House?
HON. SIMBANEGAVI: I am asking for deferment so that we bring the response next week – [AN HON. MEMBER: Saka mukuitei ku office kwenyu?] – [HON. BITI: Itai basa renyu mhamha.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, the question has been on the Order Paper since 13th July 2022. May you please bring the answer to this question next week?
HON. MPARIWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker Maam, perhaps just to assist the Hon. Deputy Minister because she is a woman. Earlier on I saw the substantive Minister in this House. Like you rightly said, this question has been on the Order Paper for quite some time. You will note that there are several other Ministers who have just sneaked out without tendering the answers. Can I implore that the Ministers should take the business of Parliament seriously. She is merely a Deputy Minister and she has just walked in,. and because she is a woman, we need to protect her. Her substantive Minister was in the House but did not leave the answers with the Deputy Minister. I thank you.
COMPLETION OF A WATER SYSTEM AT MURUNGWE CLINIC IN MBERENGWA EAST
- HON. RAIDZA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when the water system at Murungwe Clinic in Ward 3 in Mberengwa East Constituency will be completed after the initial drilling of the borehole has been stalled since 2021.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): The contractor is currently working in Manicaland Province and after that, Midlands will be next. I hope the installations will be completed during the fourth quarter of 2022.
CONSTRUCTION OF MATERNITY WARDS AT GLEN NORAH AND WESTERN TRIANGLE
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when the maternity wards will be constructed at satellites clinics in Glen Norah and Western Triangle.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): The city has four levels of clinics and these are as follows:
- Family Health Services (FHS) clinics which are basically baby clinics that do immunisations and Ante-Natal Clinic (ANC) bookings.
- Primary Care Clinics (PCCs) that offer curative services.
- Satellite Clinics – these are a combination of the above two, namely Family Health Services and Primary Care Clinics.
- Polyclinics – these are the three in one combining the Family Health Services, the Primary Care Clinics and several Satelite Clinics that are supposed to be supported by polyclinics. The Glen Norah Satelite refers patients to Rutsanana Polyclinic and those from Western Triangle are referred to Highfield Polyclinic. There are plans to build maternity wards at Satelite wards at Satelite Clinics.
12 (b) The Ministry of Health and Child Care is doing the best it can to supply all health facilities with resources we have. Currently, we have received close to 15% of our allocated budget and thus, we are providing our health facilities equitably of the products availed. I thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Hon. Minister. Looking at Highfield Constituency, the population of Highfield as well as pregnant women in that community, Hon. Minister, I want to know what plans you have to make sure that this community has a functional maternity facility. I thank you.
*HON. DR. MANGWIRO: Thank you Hon. Member. I believe the Hon. Member did not get my response when I spoke about polyclinics. I said that there are plans to build maternity wards at satellite wards at all satellite clinics in those areas.
We noted according to what the Hon. Members said that there are a lot of pregnant women who need maternity facilities. We are working on that so that polyclinics can augment the bigger hospitals. I thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: My point of clarity is; when is this going to commence Hon. Minister?
*HON. DR. MANGWIRO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question. These are specifics that I cannot respond to promptly. I would have to go back to the office then gather that information so that I can give feedback on what is happening on the ground. I thank you.
HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, he spoke about the Satellite Clinics. Are there building plans of establishing Satellite Clinics all over the country? Can we get them anywhere in the country? Thank you.
*HON. DR. MANGWIRO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am and I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his question. Indeed, looking at national statistics, at one point we had Village Health Centres, so we are now building different Village Health Centres in different villages that are meant for communities where they can get medication and medical assistance.
However, we are going to continue identifying other health centres in different parts of the country. Like what we said last week, that in areas like Chipinge, Bulawayo and Southley Park, we have constructed hospitals in such areas because as Government, we respond to the people’s needs. The questions and suggestions are really important because we need to continue adding polyclinics. I thank you.
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO DRUG AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs to explain to the House why it is taking time to set
up an Independent Commission of Inquiry into drug and substance
abuse by dealers who the police usually arrest and release back into the community.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madame Speaker Ma’am, the question is not as clear as one would want. However, let me clarify that setting up a Commission of Enquiry is a prerogative of the President of the Republic. Section 2 (i) of the Commissions of Enquiry Act provides that “the President may, when he considers it advisable by proclamation, appoint a Commission of Enquiry consisting of one or more commissioners and may authorise the commissioner(s) or any quorum of them specified in the proclamation to enquire into the conduct of any officer in the Public Service, the conduct of any chief appointed in terms of the Chiefs and Headmen Act, the conduct or management of any department of the Public Service or of any public or local institution or into a matter in which any inquiry would, in the opinion of the President, be for the public welfare”. Assuming the inquiries into the abuse of drugs and substance or conduct of the police in releasing dealers in terms of the stated Act, it is still the prerogative of the President.
Abuse of drugs is rampant and its dangers are obvious to an extent that the Government cannot afford to take no action. For this House and the Hon. Member to get information on the plan of action, the question has to be directed to the relevant Ministry and in this case, it is the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare. There is already an inter-ministerial committee that was set up by the President to look into the very issues that they are raising. So I defer the question to the Minister if the Hon. Member so desires so that he can understand what the relevant inter-ministerial commission is doing as regards the same question.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
PROVISION OF MEDICAL EQUIPMENT AT KADOMA GENERAL HOSPITAL
13. CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when the Ministry will provide the following medical equipment at Kadoma General Hospital;
a) Autoclave machine;
b) Anesthetic machines;
c) Heavy duty BP Machines;
d) Multiparameter monitors;
e) Industrial laundry machines;
f) Industrial roller irons; and
g) Office furniture.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): 1. The Autoclave machine is under repair, the Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) has been replaced and the contractor promised to finish this week.
- The anesthetic machines and multi-parameter monitor have been procured and will be distributed once delivered.
- Kadoma Hospital received two (2) vital signs monitors which are BP machines out of the 20 given to the province.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care is alive to this requirement, but due to funding challenges from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, they cannot be procured at the moment.
- Kadoma General Hospital needs to raise a request for furniture through the office of Mashonaland West Provincial Medical Director for onward transmission to the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Health and Child Care. Once this request is received, the Ministry of Health and Child Care’s Procurement Department will start the buying process and the furniture will be bought and sent to Kadoma General Hospital.
Question with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 68. .
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 30 on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 31 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
HEALTH SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 8, 2021]
Thirty First order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Health Services Amendment Bill [H. B. 8, 2021.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): The Health Service Amendment Bill is about aligning the Health Service Act with the new Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act, of 2013.
The Ministry of Health and Child Care, in collaboration with the Inter-Ministerial Taskforce on the alignment of laws with the Constitution identified some provisions in the Constitution which, for operational purposes, need to be incorporated into the Health Service Act. The other provisions were incorporated in the appropriate health related legislation such as the Public Health Act, which was aligned with the Constitution in 2018 and the Medical Services Act, which is currently before Parliament.
To initiate the alignment process of the Health Service Act with the Constitution, stakeholder consultations were conducted on 22-23 March 2017 in Harare for the Northern Region of the country and 3-4 May 2017 in Bulawayo for the Southern Region of the Country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is common knowledge that some stakeholders may have missed the consultations when the platform was provided, but that, in terms of procedure, cannot stop the process of aligning laws with the Constitution. The calls to withdraw the Bill on the basis of stakeholders who failed to attend the stakeholder consultations is unprocedural and cannot be accepted.
The Committee report alleges that Section 16A of the Amendment Bill constitutes a serious intrusion into Labour rights and constitutional freedoms of the health service professions.
The response to that is Section 16A, which is aligning the Health Service Act to Section 65 (3) of the Constitution which reads as follows:
Section 65 (3) Except for members of the Security services, every person has the right to participate in collective job action, including the right to strike, sit in, withdraw their labour and take other similar concerted action, but a law may restrict the exercise of this right in order to maintain essential services.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the key elements in that Constitutional provision are that health care is already declared an essential service in terms of Statutory Instrument 137 of 2003 of the Labour Act (Chapter 28:01). In that SI, health workers are completely prohibited from participating in collective job action, including going on strike.
Section 16A of the Health Service Amendment Bill is not prohibiting the health workers from going on strike but is only restricting (the duration) as directed by Section 65(3) of the Constitution. Section 16A is striking a balance between the rights of health workers to participate in collective job action, including going on strike and the essential service element of health service in order to save human life.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Section 16A is providing health workers with more labour rights and constitutional freedoms than the current Labour Act through SI 137 of 2003. The Health Service Amendment Bill should not be withdrawn as it provides health workers better labour rights and freedoms than the prevailing legal framework.
Section 16A (3) is alleged to criminalise being an executive member of a trade union group that organises collective job action.
The response is that once the Constitution has restricted the rights for purposes of protecting the essential service, in this case the health service, there has to be a mechanism to enforce the law and Section 16A (3) is meant to provide the enforcement mechanism.
The report raises the issue of compensatory guarantees which is expected under the International Labour Organisation and Section 104 (4) (a) of Labour Act (Chapter 28:01) for essential workers.
The response is that Section 16A, as compared to Section 104 (3) (a) (i) of the Labour Act does not prohibit essential workers from going on strike, but it only restricts, primarily the duration of the strike in order to save human life in terms of Section 48 of the Constitution which provides for the right to life.
The Committee reports also raises issues against the Health Service Commission referring cases to relevant Councils under the Health Professions Act (Chapter 27:19) and that councils are not regarded as employer and they should not have power to punish health worker or degrade them.
The response is that it is the sole prerogative of the Health Professions Councils to deal with matters of professional ethics for the health care professionals in terms of the Health Professions Act. The Health Service Act does not have the mandate to deal with violations of professional ethics, hence the referral to the appropriate Health Professions Council.
The Committee report also alleges that Section 16A contradicts Section 24, 54, 55 and 56 of the Constitution. The response is that Section 16A is incorporating the provisions of Section 65(3) of the Constitution into the Health Service Act and if there are no contradictions of Sections 65(3) with Sections 24, 54, 55 and 56 of the Constitution, then Section 16A cannot be said to contradict those same constitutional provisions.
It is also alleged in the Committee report that health professionals are the only group deemed as essential services in line with Section 65 (3) of the Constitution.
The response is that the Labour Act through SI 137 of 2003 has other categories of professionals listed as essential services and the alignment of those categories will be conducted through various appropriate pieces of legislation. For health professionals, the alignment has to be done through the Health Service Act.
The Committee report insinuates that health workers have no platform to negotiate their grievances with the employer. In terms of Statutory Instrument 111 of 2006, there is a Health Service Bipartite Negotiating Panel which is the platform for health workers and Government to address any grievances that may arise.
The Health Service Amendment Bill is an alignment issue with the Constitution and is not repealing the Labour Act. The Committee report proposes deletion of Sections 16A (2)(b) and 16A(3) of the Bill.
The response is that Section 16A(2)(b) is allowing health workers to embark on collective job action, albeit for an un-interpreted period of up to 72 hours which is a marked improvement from the Labour Act SI 137 of 2003 which completely prohibits health workers from conducting strikes.
Section 16A (2) (b) is just restricting the duration of the strike in line with Section 65(3) of the Constitution. This is a marked improvement on the labour rights and freedoms of health workers as compared to the current legal framework under the Labour Act.
Mr. Speaker Sir, on formation of Commission; there are two categories of Commissions provided for in the Constitution, namely;
- Independent Commissions Supporting Democracy which are listed in Chapter 12 of the Constitution;
- Executive Commissions such as the Civil Service Commission in Chapter 10, the Defence Service Commission, the Police Service Commission and Prisons and Correctional Service Commission all in Chapter 11 of the Constitution.
The Chapter 10 and 11 Commissions are under the Executive to implement policies of the Executive arm of the State. The Judicial Service Commission in Chapter 8 of the Constitution is under the Judiciary to serve that third arm of the State.
The proposed Health Service Commission will be another Executive Commission and is constitutionally different from the Chapter 12 Independent Commissions. The Health Service Commission will be serving the Executive in the same manner as Chapter 10 and 11 Executive Commissions.
It is also important to note that in terms of Section 320 of the Constitution, members of the Executive Commissions hold office at the pleasure of the President. This implies that they enjoy a degree of autonomy in terms of Section 321(1) of the Constitution but are ultimately answerable to the Executive, through the President.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with the above background information on Commissions, Section 4(3) under Clause 2 of the Amendment Bill remains correct because the Health Service Commissions shall be an Executive Commission which ordinarily takes policy directions from the responsible Minister.
The core functions of the proposed Health Service Commission, among others, include appointment of persons to hold posts in the Health Service, create working conditions and exercise disciplinary powers over members of the health service.
The provision of adequate medicines, personal protective equipment and tools of trade required by health workers is the domain of the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Health and Child Care and not the Commission as these are operational issues.
Just as in the case of other Executive Commissions, the budget of the Health Service Commission shall be under the line Ministry, in this case, Ministry of Health and Child Care.
There is only one Labour Court in terms of Section 162(d) of the Constitution and the Health Service cannot establish a separate court structure. If there are unresolved disputes following the Health Service Bipartite Negotiating Panel or Health Service regulations, these are still subject to referral to the Labour Court in terms of the Constitution.
The provision that proposes the Chairperson of the Health Service Commission, as also the Chairperson of the Civil Service Commission is informed by the fact that the Health Service Commission is an Executive Commission and the other Executive Commissions have a similar structure.
The Committee report raises a concern on the involvement of the Minister in the appointment of members of the commission. The response is that the role of the Minister is only to recommend to the President. In terms of Section 320 of the Constitution, it is the President who hires and fires members of Executive Commissions.
The composition of the proposed Commission is also guided by precedent of how other Executive Commissions are appointed.
In terms of Section 320 of the Constitution, members of the Executive Commissions hold office at the pleasure of the President. Stakeholders have no constitutional role in that regard.
The Committee report also proposes that the post of Secretary to the Health Service Commission must not be restricted to medical practitioners only but be open to other health professionals.
The response is that health service is a highly specialised and technical service centered on its preventive and curative functions. The only health care with basic knowledge and skills of both preventive and curative functions at technical level is a medical practitioner.
The Secretary to the Health Service Commission is the person providing technical advice to the Health Service Commission. The Secretary must be well skilled with both preventive and hospital patient treatment to be able to provide competent advice to the Commission and to implement resolutions of the Commission. Just as in the case of the Judicial Service Commission, it would be absurd to have a cadre that is not a Lawyer as Secretary to the Judicial Service Commission because of the technical and specialised nature of such a Commission.
The appointment of a Secretary is the prerogative of the President in terms of Section 205 of the Constitution. As indicated in Clause 3 Section 5(3), the President is exhorted to pay due regard to sections 17 and 18 of the Constitution on gender balance and regional representation respectively when making appointments to national offices.
The Committee report makes reference to Section 10 of part 5(b) on conditions under which Commission may revoke an assigned function to the Secretary to avoid spurious interference with the Secretariat.
The response is that all functions of Secretariat are delegated functions from the Commission. The Secretariat operates under the direction of the Commission and any directive can be revoked.
The Committee report makes reference to health financing required to revamp the health care sector that is in a deplorable state.
The response is that health financing is not part of the functions of the Health Service Act as indicated earlier. However, health financing is being addressed in a different piece of legislation focusing on National Health Insurance.
The Committee report makes reference to clarity on what Government should do to improve the health care system. The response is that the core functions of the Health Service Commission focus on human resources and are listed in Clause 2 Section 4(1) of the Amendment Bill. The mandate of the Health Service Act is on recruiting competent persons to hold posts in the Health Service, improve health workers’ working conditions and ensure there is discipline in the Health Service.
The other pillars of health care provision, such as infrastructure, finance, equipment, medicines and medical supplies fall under other pieces of legislation, such as the Medical Services Act which is also before Parliament undergoing alignment with the Constitution.
The Committee report raises issues of health care workers’ retention which is very pertinent instead of restricting health service. The response is that there are lots of monetary and non-monetary benefits that are being implemented to retain staff such as the recent 100% salary increment and health specific allowances pegged on the interbank rate. In addition, there are allowances that are paid in US dollars.
On non-monetary issues we have commenced acquiring flats for institutional accommodation and some doctors have moved in to occupy the recently commissioned Marimba flats. All Central and Provincial Hospitals have been given seed money to run cafeterias to provide meals for staff at their institutions.
On transport, the Ministry is acquiring buses, minibuses and service vehicles. For those who are able to import personal vehicles, there is a facility for duty free certificates. All these initiatives are focused on improving health workers’ conditions and address the brain drain challenge.
The Committee report alleges that the Bill is taking away the platform for engagement between employer and employee.
The response is that we have just re-constituted the Bipartite Negotiating Panel whose term had expired. This is the employer-employee platform in terms of SI 111 of 2006. It has not been disbanded.
The Committee report seems to allege that no consultations were conducted with the Health Service before drafting of the Amendment Bill. The response, as previously mentioned is that the law making process commences with stakeholder consultations and these were conducted in March and May of 2017 in Harare for the Northern region and Bulawayo for the Southern region.
HON. T. MLISWA: I have a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is with a heavy heart that I rise on a point of order on the continued suffering of Members of Parliament. I have just been told that we are back with the PetroTrade coupons yet there was a temporary measure. So, for me to sit here thinking that I am concentrating and now the PetroTrade coupons which we just said last week could not work are back again. We are not informed. Hon. Musarurwa who is going to Bulawayo has just been issued with them. We are not children. Why are you doing this to us? How can you continue doing this?
We were supposed to have the Minister of Finance addressing us as Government Caucus. Chief Whip, you continuously lie to God. Why do you do that? You said on Monday, you will come and you did not come. Today, you were at ZANU PF and you spoke about our welfare but some of us are not part of the ZANU PF Caucus. So, how then do we get information? Because you are the majority, it does not mean you will abuse it. You think you can get people to pass the Budget and you think you have won the day. We cannot work like that. How do I get to the House with the PetroTrade coupons? Who is behind this? We are supposed to be passing a pro-poor budget but we are passing a pro-corruption budget. A pro-corruption budget where Ministers like July Moyo are stealing money and yet we are suffering here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: Why are you doing this to us? We cannot continue concentrating here, Mr. Speaker Sir, when he is constantly doing that. We cannot have this. The Hon. Minister of Finance is here; you will shield him. You cannot shield him; he is not the Minister for ZANU PF. The civil servants are suffering, the war veterans are suffering, everybody is suffering in the country. Where is the pro-poor budget that we talk about? There is no pro-poor budget. It is a pro-corruption budget which you are also eating from. You are getting commissions from all these vehicle suppliers and we are not getting it. Where do we go with PetroTrade again?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, I want to be kicked out so that I am one of the legislators saying no to this corruption. You whip us for corrupt budgets but instead of making sure our welfare is proper, what is going on? The Chief Whip is clandestine. Do you have a heart or what? You must have a heart for people, not “kufunga kuti wagona basa nekuwipa vanhu awa.” I will not keep quiet. My father fought for this country, not for such leadership. He did not fight for such leadership. He was ZAPU, he did not fight for this. He fought for a country which he would enjoy, which would look after the welfare of the people and not this rubbish.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, take your seat.
HON. MADZIMURE: There is no quorum.
HON. MARKHAM: Mr. Speaker, can you check on the quorum please.
[Bells rung.]
[Quorum formed]
HON. WATSON: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order Hon. Speaker is that I think it is an appalling reflection on this House of Parliament that we are listening to the Minister replying to a report on a piece of legislation that is vitally cognisant and key to the public health sector in Zimbabwe for Zimbabwean citizens and these people who have walked in here now – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. DR. MANGWIRO: The Committee report seems to allege that no consultations were conducted before drafting of the amendment Bill. The response, as previously mentioned, is that the law making process commences with stakeholder consultations and these were conducted in March/May of 2017 in Harare in the northern region and Bulawayo on the southern region respectively. The drafting of principles and the Bill only commenced after that process.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. My point of order is on the coupons. Can we get the answer to confirm whether the coupons are Petrotrade or not? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mliswa that is administrative please – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order, order Hon. Mliswa! Can you sit down please! Hon. Members, the issue of coupons is administrative. I think Administration is going to look into that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. DR. MANGWIRO: The Committee report alleges that the amendment of the Bill has not shown where the old provisions are non-aligned to the Constitution. The response is that the principles that inform the drafting of the amendment Bill following the stakeholder consultations are available to Parliament.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Health Services Amendment Bill before the National Assembly is an alignment of the Health Services Act with the Constitution. Stakeholder consultations were conducted nationwide on dates that have been provided and the Committee report was also based on false assumptions, especially on the type of commissions in the Constitution. It is my Ministry’s well considered position that the alignment of the Health Services Act with the Constitution must proceed.
Issues raised by Hon. Members – Hon. Chikwinya, the Hon. Member’s issues are addressed in my reference to the Committee report. The Hon. Member can review Statutory Instrument 137 of 2003 of the Labour Act. Health workers are prohibited from going on strike in the current legal framework. The Health Services Amendment Bill is allowing workers to go on strike for 72 hours and to repeat after 14 days if their issue is not resolved. This amendment Bill is giving back to health workers their rights and freedoms.
Hon. Mpariwa – the Hon. Member is not sure on the mischief this Bill seeks to cure. The response is that it is an alignment of the Health Services Act with the Constitution. The Labour Act through Statutory Instrument 137 of 2003 is not aligned to the Constitution on the issue of collective job action and strikes. In this case it is the Labour Act that is violating the health workers’ rights and that is part of the mischief to be cured by this amendment Bill.
Hon. Watson – the Hon. Member alleges that the amendment Bill is unconstitutional without supporting the assertion with evidence in that regard. As already stated, the Bill is addressing issues in the Constitution, especially section 65 on labour rights and is giving back to health workers their rights and freedoms.
Hon. Dr. Mataruse – it appears the Hon. Member is one of the stakeholders that missed the stakeholder’s consultations. The Hon. Member is also not aware that the Labour Act, through Statutory Instrument 137 of 2003, is prohibiting health workers from going on strike. I hope the Hon, Member is now aware and will support the amendment Bill.
Hon. Molokela-Tsiye – the Hon. Member observed a very important right in the Constitution that could be aligned with our current health related piece of legislation. Section 76 of the Constitution on the right to health care is being aligned with the Constitution through the Medical Services Amendment Bill which is also before Parliament. The Health Services Act addresses issues of human resources while the Medial Services Act deals with provision of medical services in clinics and hospitals. For your information, that is the difference between the two Acts.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member was also not aware that stakeholder’s consultations were conducted nationwide. With the new information, I hope the Hon. Member will support the Bill. I thank you Hon. Speaker Sir and I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Tuesday, 30th August, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the rest of the Orders of the Day be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 23 has been disposed of.
HON. L. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE
Twenty Third Order read: Resumption of Committee of Supply: Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure.
House in Committee.
On Vote 8 (Continuation of debate):
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Chair, I was looking at the Blue Book and on a Vote where there is allocation for infrastructure especially accommodation. Mr. Chairman, we used to copy from the models that we see in terms of houses for the mudhumenis. In every area, you would find a nice house and you ask to whom it belongs? In most cases it would be mudhumeni’s house. If you drive around today and see how those houses are now dilapidated, it is pathetic. I understand they have been given motorbikes but they are now going to the growth points looking for rented accommodation. Those houses are still there, the majority of them, the structure itself is still intact but you look at the windows, doors and everything and you find that actually they are not habitable at the moment as far as those things are concerned.
So, I do not know whether the Minister is saying on that particular Vote, there is money put aside to deal with that infrastructure. This is what is affecting quite a number of young people to decide against being deployed out there. It is a bit difficult, they used to have nice houses where they would...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): Why not give the Minister your proposal.
HON. MADZIMURE: My proposal is that he increases that Vote with 50%.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My concern with the Vote is not a financial one, it is a management one. Given that the Ministry is a perennial over-spender, it has overspent again and so it gets a lot more. It spends 75% of its budget and now it is going to get a lot more. Our problem is that we are not solving a thing. If we go back to 2015 to 2018 on a Condonation Bill, 54% of the 9.6 billion came from this Ministry. We continue subsidising inputs, so the tendency when we subsidise those inputs is that the farmer then exaggerates his hectarage to get more inputs. Now this is a flaw in the subsidisation of agriculture and there is only one way to subsidise agriculture, which is the price. The thing is further complicated with our current pricing structure because quite bluntly, it is pathetic and that is why you will not get the maize crop in.
The only way to subsidise agriculture is to pay more money and wean people of this free inputs story because the free inputs are actually going to the wrong people. I will say it again. Free inputs are going to the wrong people. We have got people here getting subsidised by the Ministry for the land preparation and they go and get contractors with so much money that they are getting and that is wrong.
I have another major issue with the budget and the Hon. Minister, if you could just take note here. FSG owed over a hundred million dollars’ worth of fertiliser going back somewhat. The value of seeds is over 7 million dollars. My question is this; why have we only got two suppliers who get all the seed production to supply to them and to supply to us because there is mark-up there and it is a huge mark-up. If you go to the whole seed producer, they have not been paid for eight months now. So, we are going to have a problem in trying to get our inputs for next year and if we do get the inputs, they are going to be very expensive for the farmer but if the farmer pays, no one cares. So the farmer is losing out on everything. We have got farmer-after-farmer standing up here talking about the price of inputs and yet in seven or eight years since command started, we are not changing the system. We are employing the same system. We go one step further and we are guaranteeing the debt to the banks. We have not solved the problem, which is that we are putting in too many inputs and when the Ministry talks, they talk of how many hectares you are planting. The hectares are of no use to man or beast if the yield is low and our yield is very low. TIMB yesterday told us they are...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Give the Hon. Minister your proposal Hon. Markham.
HON. MARKHAM: Mr. Chairman, am I allowed to debate or what here, otherwise I will just sit down? My proposals are coming and the first one is; increase supplies and wean people from inputs because that is so expensive and do not guarantee bank loans of someone who has not paid his loan back; otherwise we are going to end up picking up three or four billion dollars every year in debt and you are telling me I cannot debate. I will give you an example and then I will sit down. The current wheat crop is boosted at 70 thousand hectares just hide satellite imagery and it shows that the wheat is 46 500 hectares, of which a third is late planted. You will be lucky to get 160 000 tonnes of winter wheat, you will be lucky to get that. The Ministry is talking of doubling that. We are funding double the hectarage for half the yield so we are getting nowhere. Thank you.
*HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Hon. Chair, I have three issues to the Minister. If you look at the rural district hospitals, there are no mortuaries...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order Hon. Member, we are on agriculture now.
HON. HWENDE: Thank you Hon. Chair. It is just a small comment in light of what Hon. Markham has said because I was about to come and applaud the winter crop season because we heard that this year we are going to have a surplus. My point is to make sure that this budget should actually support the wheat farmers that have done a good job but now I am confused, maybe I will wait for the Minister’s response. If we manage to do import substitution like what has been reported on the wheat crop, our farmers should be well paid for them to survive so that we do not go back to the system of importing crops. We should then target crops like soya beans and other crops that we are still importing.
My last point is since we are experiencing problems with rainfall seasons, is there a provision of cloud seeding?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank Hon. Chair for the contributions from various Members. Let me start with Hon. Markham whilst his contribution is still flesh and then going backwards to yesterday. He raised an issue about yield, if I understood him. It was on yield that we should start focusing on yield and productivity as opposed to acreage, in his analysis the yield is likely to be lower than what we are expecting.
When we do these budgets, we are guided by the Ministry of Agriculture. I am working with the figures he has given us which are the official figures of Government but since the Hon. Member is raising an issue, I will certainly pass it on to the Ministry of Agriculture to look into that issue whether we are going to meet our target or not. As budget stands, it is based on the official figures of Government which is 75 000 hectares about 180 000 metric tonnes that should be harvested on the back of a certain yield. That is what I am guided by which also touches on what Hon. Hwende stood up to speak about.
Let me then go back to yesterday’s debates, let me turn to a contribution from Hon. Nyabani. He raised an issue about Government extending subsidy for inputs. I must say that for the Pfumvudza, we are providing free inputs so that subsidy is already included in that programme but for the commercial CBZ Agro yield or Command or Enhanced Productivity model, obvious that is a commercial programme where we expect that farmers should proceed on commercial terms as they go about their business. I must hasten to add that we know that there is a big challenge regarding the access to fertilizer both in terms of supply and price and we are going to come up with a proposal to deep into the contingency funds within the SDRs to acquire fertilizers so that we can at least lay our hands on fertilizers in time for the summer programme and hopefully the prices are also manageable prices. So we have got a plan for dealing with that. I think the biggest headache right now is just the availability of fertilizer almost at any price and then prices become a secondary matter.
He raised the issue of livestock support but also I know Hon. Mayihlome also raised a similar issue. We do have a line in this budget regarding livestock support. On page 52, Vote 8, there is a line that refers to animal production, health extension and advisory services. There is the sub-programme on control of animals and zoonotic diseases and animal welfare protection and there is also a line on animal heath, research and diagnostics and there is another one on tsetse control and surveillance. All these speak to animal health aspect.
You can see that, that budget the initial estimate was put at 9.6 billion dollars. That is what we had budgeted. By end of June, we had only used 2.8 billion. We had ways to go before exhausting that budget but in this supplementary budget, I am requesting that we add another 5 billion to increase that budget then 14.7 billion. So something has been added to that budget and I think it will go a long way. Also in respond to the request from the Ministry of Agriculture, that is how we have responded to this very important issue.
Then there is the issue of transportation for Pfumvudza programmes and agriculture in general, we are always dealing with this matter and we are ready to respond to any further request on it. Some Hon. Members where speaking too fast, I was not able to write down all the names. There is an Hon. Member who raised the issue on whether there is any budget for dams or not. I must hasten to say that the there is in the supplementary budget. Again I want to turn to a Section of the Blue Book, on page 56, there is a section regarding the budget Programme 9 on integrated water resources management grants. Here we have a budget for Gwayi-Tshangani Dam, Semwa, Chivhu, Bindura Dam, Dande Dam, Mbada which is the former Silverstream Dam, it has been renamed, Tuli-Manyange, Kunzwi-Musami and then Zimunya Dam and Vungu Dam. That is what we have provided for in this supplementary budget and that is what the Ministry requested. I see that that budget is of the order, this is the supplementary portion of the order 18.5 billion. So the current budget is 18.2 billion and then the two together shows that this budget just for dams only is now at 36.7 billion. So we do have an allocation for that aspect as well. Hon. Members were speaking too fast, and I could not write down everything. One Member raised the issue around the GMB price and I think that other Hon. Members have to raise that as well, the price that we should make sure that it is attractive enough for local farmers and we should prioritise purchases from the local farmers. I agree with that and that is what we are doing and we are prioritising local farmers in terms of purchases and imports come second. Even for imports, I do not think imported maize is easily available, by the way. So we should focus on local maize.
In terms of pricing, we have adjusted the price upwards. We even introduced the USD component in the price of USD90 per tonne in addition to the ZW$ component. In fact, that was a response to a request from Hon. Members in this House and I went back to consult my team in the Ministry and we were able to respond to that.
I agree that we should prioritise local producers. Hon. Mayihlome spoke on the issue of livestock. I have tried to respond to that. Hon. Madzimure, on the issue regarding the budget for housing for mudhumeni, they are our extension services support. Here in the Blue Book, they are now referred to as business advisory service providers. That is a new term that the Ministry has come up with because the Ministry believes that basically a farmer should visualize their farming activity as a business and therefore, these extension service providers are in fact business advisors.
There is a line that covers this request. If you look under Programme 4, it has Technical and Advisory Services and it is included there. I will see if we can speed that budget and put some part elsewhere. That is where we have these technical services. Again, we have set aside a budget for revamping the infrastructure for the business advisory service providers, extension services, madhumeni in other words, and we have provided the Ministry with the resources that it has requested.
I am not sure that this is a programme that will be concluded and we are almost four months now to the year end. I do not think that we can conclude and revamp this entire infrastructure in four months. This is a multi-year programme and we have to start somewhere. I believe that this will continue into next year and subsequent future years. I think I have tried to respond to the question by Hon. Markham.
Hon. Sithole was on health and so we will come back to that. Hon. Hwende, on the question of the budget for cloud seeding budget - it is sitting under the Meteorological Services and DDF. Those two tend to work together. So it is sitting elsewhere and we have provided a budget for it. We are prioritising local purchases on local farmers and imports come second. I have also said that we are committed to increase the price to make sure it remains attractive and we have done that already. We know that farmers want more but we have done that. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Just a point of clarity Hon. Chairman and it does not need any answer. If we are serious about sorting out agriculture, it is simple. We need USD pre-planting producer prices for our food crops and that is set at 10% less in the regional average. The reason is very simple. In the first year, farmers who make enough money to buy their own fertilizer and over three years you wean them off for fertilizer. The second thing is, the farmers get USD and there should be sponsorship product because we are now becoming food secure. I thank you.
Vote 8 put and agreed to.
On Vote 9 – Mines and Mining Development – ZW$1 582 536 000:
HON. MPARIWA: I do not mean to make any harm but I think for Hon. Members to follow the proceedings correctly to know which Vote is being debated, can the Clerk also assist in pronouncing what Vote and the name of the Vote. Thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: My issue on the Mines and Mining Development is that there is no need to allocate more funds to Mines and Mining Development. We need to take funds to supplement from that department.
+HON. MOKONE: I would like to propose that the Hon. Minister should consider women and artisanal miners because where I come from, my constituency has a number for women artisanal miners. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions that they have proffered. There should be no supplementary in this Ministry. They must actually give us money as Government and so forth. I think the contributions, I understand the sector needs to compete with more sectors. I think the feeling from the Members is that we are not getting enough in the form of taxes and other revenues; that is why this budget, I requested that for example, we should increase the royalty for the PGM sector from 2% to 5%. That was part of the spirit of getting more money from the sector but I do not know whether we should really now scrap the entire budget. I think that would be too harsh. I think that let us just work together on how we can get more resources from the sector.
The youth in mining and women in mining, I am a big fan of this programme. So what has happened and I do not think Members of Parliament are aware, that is why they are asking. The Minister of Mines got Cabinet to approve a Youth in Mining Action Programme. Remember, we had pronounced it in the earlier budget; I stood in this Parliament and mentioned it in the November budget but we had no execution plan as yet in place. Ministry of Mines has come forward and actually suggested - they however propose areas that have been set aside for the youth for them to be organised and go into mining. What we have done with your permission here, is to set aside US$10 million from SDR to support the gold buying centres that would support the youth in the various provinces, even from various centres.
I am happy to report that money is now in hand. The programme will be launched soon and they will work with the banks. We are really ready to support our youth in mining. I thank the Member for raising this issue. We are very passionate about it as Government. I thank you.
Vote 9 put and agreed to.
On Vote 10 – Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry - $3 624 581 000:
HON. MARKHAM: Hon. Chair, I just have one point which I would like to raise cognisant of the budget because it covers environment and it covers the climate, et cetera. Quite honestly, the budget for Vote 10 is pathetic when you look at it in terms of problems we have for the environment, tourism and for the hospitality industry in recovering. That budget is pathetic. However, I understand we have to give some places. What I would like the Minister to look at very carefully is encompassing that into the next year’s budget that for this Ministry there is a sizeable increase seeing that the revenue from this is mainly USD. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Hon. Chairman, I thank Hon. Markham for that contribution and certainly a very good contribution that this sector may need further support. In next year’s budget, I will certainly consider increasing this budget substantially and I will lean on him to give us ideas as to which aspects we should be focusing on. I thank you.
Vote 10 put and agreed to.
On Vote 11 – Transport and Infrastructural Development - $46 507 434 000:
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Chair. Mine is very simple, I do presume that the Minister, in the budget for Transport and Infrastructural Development, had forgotten that the suburb of Hatcliffe is included in there because it has not had one drop of tar for 20 years. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman. Hon. Markham raises a very specific area. I suspect it is also part of his constituency. So he is doing a good job in arguing for his constituency. I will speak to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to make sure that we include some roads from that area so that we have equitable distribution of road infrastructure upgrade. I thank you.
Vote 11 put and agreed to.
On Vote 12 – Foreign Affairs and International Trade - $1 947 996 000:
HON. MPARIWA: Hon. Speaker, I hope and trust that the Minister has taken into cognisant that many times, our staff at the embassies are being chucked out of the accommodations due to failure to pay rent, electricity, et cetera. I appreciate that the vehicles have been purchased but I also hope and trust that their welfare is well kept because it also causes some diplomatic embarrassment in terms of their welfare.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to ask the Hon. Minister of Finance on Programme 2, international cooperation and Diaspora engagement, to state exactly what is actually happening because it is too vague. What is happening and why do we need an extra $2.9 billion in that sector? I thank you.
HON. SHAMU: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My contribution is our concern with regard to the uneven pattern in terms of Ministry/departmental allocation and disbursements. Also, the uneven Supplementary Budget wherein some Votes got more than 100% of the original budget whilst the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade got as little as 25.9%. Now, the Ministry has therefore a situation where it is hamstrung in that it is supposed to improve trade investment in Diaspora engagement and hence cooperation with the international community and improve the country’s perception and image. When we look at that, there is need Hon. Minister, to relook at the budget and increase the allocation. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want the Minister to assure the House that the back pays that we owe our diplomatic staff is now paid up to date so that they live a bit comfortably when they are out there. Again, adding on to Hon. Matewu’s issue on the international cooperation and Diaspora engagement, we actually expect that the Diaspora is actually remitting a lot of money here already, so why do you want to use more money to attract the money that is already flowing in? Are we not going against the grain where the money is flowing from the diaspora and then we budget for that? Is it for something else that we do not understand or it is purely for that purpose but if it is so, then it does not make a lot of sense? Those are the two issues that I want the Minister to address.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Members for their contribution. Let me start with the contribution from Hon. Mpariwa dealing with arrears on rental, salaries and other welfare issues for our embassy staff. I have done a lot here in the last three years. We are now completely up to date with salaries for diplomats. We are also up-to-date with rent and other arrears for their upkeep but this has been a process. Then in terms of renovations of embassies, the Ministry had directed us this year to focus on the properties in Gaborone, down town South Africa, Ethiopia and New York. The property in London was due to have been upgraded through some involvement of PPPs but that has not moved much but those four are under way. We have always maintained that in terms of infrastructure development and upgrade that is a multi-year programme.
On the budget for International Co-operation Diaspora Engagement, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has argued that they really need support when it comes to this area so that they can galvanise our diaspora for them to support the image building of the country through various programmes. This item also includes support for institutions such as Zim-Trade which are meant to promote trade and international co-operation, which is part of the economic diplomacy agenda. That is the argument presented to us and we have tried hard to respond to that request.
I also want to thank Hon. Shamu for the observation that the budget for the Ministry only went up by 25.9%. Part of it is obviously driven by this US$2.5billion in the other international co-operation and the diaspora engagement. Again we see that this increase is adequate for what the Ministry has requested. We are up-to-date with the day to day upkeep of our diplomats. What is left is the infrastructure development aspect which is a mult-iyear programme which again in next year’s subsequent budget will be able to budget some resources towards that.
Hon. Madzimure also had concerns on the Diaspora and International Co-operation budget. He said perhaps this was too much but I tried to answer that in terms of the aspirations of the Ministry. Then on the issue of salaries, we are up-to-date and every month we release almost US$7million towards the Ministry to meet the liabilities and other support services for our diplomats. I thank you.
Clause 12 put and agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Chairman, I now move that you report progress and seek leave to sit again.
Motion put and agreed to.
Committee of Supply to resume: Thursday 25th August, 2022.
On the Motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. L. SIBANDA, the House adjourned at Six Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 24thAugust, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELL PHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put your gadgets on silent or better still switch them off.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE SENATE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Hon. President of Senate. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until all the other Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE STATUS AND WELFARE OF CHILDREN ACCOMPANYING INCARCERATED MOTHERS AND ACCESS TO ANTE-NATAL CARE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN IN PRISONS
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House takes note of the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and access to ante-natal care for pregnant women in prisons.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to present a report by the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development.
1.0 Introduction
Zimbabwe is a signatory to International Child Protection Instruments, including the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Children (UNCRC) (1989) and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child (ACRWC) (1999) which outlines the civil, political, social, economic and cultural rights entitled to children, regardless of any circumstances. The Children’s Charter obligates all countries that ratified and acceded to these conventions to maintain and protect the children’s rights, nevertheless being accompanying incarcerated mothers or being in any other conditions. Zimbabwe’s legal and policy framework such as sections 19 and 81 of the Constitution provide for children's rights.
In addition, Section 58 of the Prisons Act (Chapter 7:11) clearly stipulates that infants may accompany incarcerated mothers in prison. It is from this provision that require the Government to meet the children’s basic needs whilst they are with their mothers in prison. It is from this background that prompted the Committee to conduct an inquiry into the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and access to antenatal services for pregnant women in prisons.
2.0 Objectives
The key objectives of the inquiry were:
- To assess the living conditions of minors accompanying mothers that are serving sentences,
- To appreciate challenges faced by children living with incarcerated mothers in prison, and
- To ascertain the provision of antenatal services for pregnant women who are serving jail sentences
3.0 Methodology
As part of the inquiry the Committee undertook the following activities:
The Committee received oral evidence from the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs with regards to government policy on the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers. The Committee learnt from the presentation by the Ministry officials that the status and welfare of children who accompany incarcerated mothers in prisons is catered for by Government through State resources.
The Committee also received oral evidence from the Zimbabwe Prison and Correctional Services (ZPCS). The ZPCS officials acquainted the Committee with challenges faced by children staying with incarcerated mothers, and the availability of antenatal services for pregnant mothers.
The Committee further received written submissions from the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and Zimbabwe Prison and Correctional Services. It was from these reports wherein, the Committee was furnished with information about existing established female prisons and the availability of the children’s playground facilities within the prisons for daily socialising with other children and entertainment. The reports received by the Committee outlined some of the charity institutions where children could be referred by prisons when they are released from the institution without any relative to look after.
The Committee conducted fact-finding visits to female prisons and female units’ section from 27June to 1 July 2022 in different provinces. The intention was to gather information on the ground about the status and welfare of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and access to antenatal care for pregnant women in prisons. Table 1 below shows a sample of the visited prisons.
Table 1. Prisons Visited by the Thematic Committee
DAY |
PLACE |
27 June 2022 |
Gokwe Prison Midlands |
28 June 2022 |
Shurugwi Prison Midlands |
29 June 2022 |
Lupane Prison Matabeleland North |
30 June 2022 |
Khami Mlondolozi Prison Bulawayo |
1 July 2022 |
Mutimurefu Prison Masvingo |
4.0 Committee Findings
4.1 Statistics of Children, Pregnant Mothers and Female Inmates
The Committee witnessed that there is lower number of female inmates as compared to male from the sample visits conducted. The Committee noted that although women in prison are fewer than men, female inmates include pregnant women, nursing mothers and the mentally challenged. Table 2 below shows statistics on the number of children accompanying incarcerated mothers and pregnant women serving sentences.
Table 2
Prison Visited |
Total female Inmates |
Number of Children |
Pregnant mothers |
Gokwe |
4 |
1 |
1 |
Shurugwi |
24 |
2 |
3 |
Lupane |
1 |
0 |
0 |
Mlondolozi |
56 |
2 |
0 |
Mutimurefu |
26 |
3 |
0 |
As illustrated by the table above, it is a fact that some children can be found in prisons not because of being convicted of any crime but by virtue of depending on their mothers in terms of breast feeding, care and early childhood mental development.
4.2 Dietary Scale for children.
The ZPCS officials and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs confirmed during oral evidence about the existence of a dietary scale for the children staying with their mothers in prison. The Committee, however, was dismayed to witness during the visits that all prisons are failing to meet the dietary scale as stipulated in the prison policy and procedures. ZPCS staff manning female prisons disclosed to the Committee that there is inadequate funding from Government for the procurement of food that is required on the dietary for children. ZPCS staff members and prisoners confirmed that they depended upon donations from supporting partners and well-wisher organizations such as churches.
In addition, nursing mothers and pregnant women reported that due to limited resources in prisons they do not have balanced diet. In most cases, children are always getting same rations just like prisoners without a special diet suitable for infants. The Committee was dismayed to note that sometimes ZPCS officers made some contributions to assist the children with some basic food recommended for babies.
4.3 Procurement of dietary scale
In all visited prisons the ZPCS officials informed the Committee that they are currently facing challenges in the procurement process of the different food stocks required in the dietary scale. The ZPCS staff highlighted, that the quantities of items that they require for a prescribed number of children that accompanied their mothers are small to be purchased from big suppliers such as Grain Marketing Board. In addition, the officials confirmed that there was late disbursement of funds by the treasury for the purchase of the food staff.
4. 4 Clothing
Clothing is a basic necessity, especially for the new born babies, children and even adults. Across all the visited prisons, it was brought to the Committee’s attention those children faced problems in terms of clothing. Children require special warm clothing especially the new born babies. The Committee was concerned to note that Government is failing to provide for such services. Pregnant women require preparations, but this is not readily available in prisons. ZPCS pleaded with the Committee that they only get these clothing through donations.
4. 5 Accommodation
The Committee was informed that prison facilities were no longer meant for punishment but rather a rehabilitation and correctional center for reformation of offenders. In this regard, it was disheartening for the Committee to note that some of the prison infrastructure still resembles punishment facilities where the cells were too small and have no toilets facilities. Members of the Committee witnessed that at Mutimurefu and Lupane, inmates were using bucket system during the night. Women in prison and ZPCS staff appealed to the Committee that there was no adequate space to separate mothers from new born babies and other inmates and sometimes they shared the cell together, and it was very risky for babies since they risk contracting infections.
Women prisoners also raised concern on accommodation as they face challenges with those who were on mental rehabilitation especially at Mlondolosi. They appealed to the Committee that the mentally challenged require a separate cell till their condition improve.
The ZPCS clarified to the Committee that severe accommodation challenges were being faced in holding cells at female sections however, at all established female big prisons such as Shurugwi, Chikurubi, Mlondolosi and Marondera the facilities were upgraded into a favorable rehabilitation condition.
4.6 Health and Antenatal Services
The Committee was pleased to witness that at every prison there are health staff officers and sometimes a prison clinic for medication and treatment of inmates. ZPCS staff highlighted that pregnant mothers and babies were taken care of by the clinic staff and can access their monthly antenatal services. The Committee was informed that the ZPCS clinics had midwifery staff to take care of pregnant and new born babies. Successful stories of babies born without any challenges or problem from these health facilities were shared.
However, the Committee received some challenges faced in these clinics. The clinics have shortages of drugs especially for children. The pregnant mothers also pointed out that they required scan services which is currently not available.
All female inmates in visited prisons bemoaned the lack of provision of cancer screening facilities. ZPCS and female inmates also reported to the Committee that they require ambulance for emergency services such as referring due pregnant mothers to hospitals.
4.7 Water and Sanitation
With regards to water and sanitation especially considering women and babies to be the most affected, the Committee was pleased to witness that most of the prison facilities have no water challenges. The Committee was appraised of different reservoirs within the prison used for water storage. However, it was only at Gokwe prison, where there were water shortages, due to rationing. Female inmates raised a concern that this affects the children and women hygiene, and can result in outbreak of diseases or infections.
4.8 Children Playgrounds Facilities.
In all the five female prisons visited, the Committee noted that there were no any established children’s playgrounds at the prison premises. Children always want to play and mix with others. However, the Committee witnessed that these children were always with their mothers in cells. Members of ZPCS submitted to the Committee that there was need for upgrading of all female prisons to have playground facilities and creches where children can be taken and mix with the community and get exposure of the outside world.
4.9 Life After Separation from the Mother
Submissions to the Committee were that the policy of the ZPCS allows for a child to accompany the mother whilst breastfeeding for up to eighteen months and then can be weaned. The child could still stay with the mother up to twenty-four months and thereafter, should be removed from the prison. However, the ZPCS institution raised a concern that they face challenges with regards to the welfare of the child since relatives, social welfare department and well-wisher organisations might not turn up to take care of the child. In essence, this prompted the ZPCS to allow children to stay even up to four years with their mothers.
The Committee noted with great concern that there was need for government to play an active role through the social welfare department to assist in the welfare and up keep of these children.
4.10 Sanitary Wear
Members of the ZPCS submitted to the Committee, that the institution depended on well-wishers and donations for sanitary wear of the female inmates. Although, the Committee witnessed the availability of sanitary wear in prison cells, it was concerned that these were not supplied by Government, and the situation for the ZPCS institution to be dependent on donations was not sustainable.
5.0 Observations
5.1 The Committee observed that in all visited female prison facilities, the ZPCS institution depend on donations for the dietary scale of children, clothing, medication and sanitary wear.
5.2 Members of the Committee observed that government through the responsible Ministry and department of Social Welfare was not full-filling its mandate on provision of basic needs and looking after children who accompanied incarcerated mothers in prison.
5.3 It was observed that, in all female prisons, female inmates require projects to gain skills and technical skills in handcrafting, homemade production for life sustenance after prison so that they will not continue to commit crimes because of lack of start-up projects.
5.4 The Committee observed that in all ZPCS institutions there were clinics and professional nurses to look after the inmates and children, however, there was shortage of tools of trade such as drugs and ambulances to fully discharge services.
5.5 The Committee observed that some of the facilities used by female inmates were constructed in the precolonial era with the aim to punish severely and were no longer suitable for rehabilitation and correction of inmates which is the current thrust.
5.6 The Committee observed that there were no children play ground facilities such as creches in all visited prisons except for Chikurubi Maximum hence most of the time children accompanying incarcerated mothers spend more time in cells with their mothers and were not exposed to the out of prison environment.
6.0 Recommendations
Based on the findings and observations above the Committee recommends that:
6.1 Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare through the Social Welfare department should provide food, clothing and sanitary wear and accommodation for children accompanying incarcerated mothers beginning from 01 January 2023.
6.2 The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should timeously disburse the funds allocated for the ZPCS operations, quarterly to ensure the procurement and purchasing of the dietary scale food staff for the welfare of the children accompanying incarcerated beginning from 30 September 2022.
6.3 The Ministry of Justice Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should in the 2023 budget provide for construction of more cells suitable for correction and rehabilitation of inmates as compared to current punishable cells existing.
6.4 The ZPCS female units should have children playgrounds facilities to be used by both children accompanying incarcerated mothers and those within the community, by 28 February 2023.
6.5 The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development in the 2023 budget to consider and increase the budget allocations of the ZPCS projects such as farming to enable self-sustenance and food security in prisons.
6.6 The Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Services through their rehabilitation programs should implement incoming generating projects that the women could receive start-up money once their sentences are served February 2023.
6.7 The ministry of Health and Child Care should provide for ambulances in the 2023 national budget to the major Female prisons in the country for emergency services on children and pregnant mothers.
7.0 Conclusion
Children are the future of our nation hence they need to be protected and enjoy their rights regardless of the circumstances that their mothers are facing. A fetus is a human being therefore, needs to be protected by making the mother acquire and access all the antenatal services for her to give life. Children accompanying mothers in prisons should feel and access all what is required for a normal growth of a child. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the report that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chief Ndlovu on incarcerated female inmates. We visited five prisons where we saw women who are incarcerated and they totalled 911 and nine of them had children. Those who were pregnant were four. There was a challenge with food for the children, most of the time they get porridge without sugar for the children because there is no sugar. Everyone who is in prison survives on donations from donors; the Government is not doing much to assist the Prisons and Correctional Services. It actually affects the female inmates.
On the issue of food, there are those young children, the newly born and those that start taking solids, they are not able to get food, they are also not able to get clothes for these children. We also observed that when people are incarcerated, when they have children the relatives neglect them. People need to be educated and to raise awareness on the importance of looking after the incarcerated inmates.
On the issue of accommodation, if you look at the rooms where they stay, they are crowded in those rooms and the rooms are not conducive for the children. If you look at the rooms that they stay with their babies, some are breastfeeding and some are newly born. The ablution facilities are very close to where they stay, they are within the same area especially in Gokwe, they were saying that they had gone for three days without water and yet people need to access the toilets. This is a very difficult situation especially for mothers with children.
Mr. President, we also witnessed that in one of the prisons in Lupane, they have water challenges so they harvest water and keep it in two-litre containers so if one uses the toilet, one cannot use the two litres of water to flush the toilets and that affects the health of children. On the issue of health, we realised that clinics are available for those who are pregnant but the challenge is that if one has pregnancy complications, she would need to be transferred to bigger hospitals. They do not have transport to ferry such inmates to referral hospital. The request is that they be availed ambulances for this cause.
Furthermore, on the issue of health, we realised that there are some who are incarcerated whilst they are on ARV therapy, we were informed that they are able to access their ARV drugs. What they do not have access to care facilities for scans because the clinics are not well equipped in terms of scanning equipment. So the Government needs to chip in and address this.
On the issue of access to water, we know water is a challenge everywhere. If possible, the issue of water must be addressed in the prisons because there is a mixed bag of pregnant mothers, nursing mothers and those without children. You find that the innocent child is suffering in prison. We request that Government should drill boreholes to address the issue of water challenges. On the issue of children who are now of pre-school going age, there is need to create playgrounds and preschools for these children to go and play and enjoy themselves and have a normal life like any other child.
On the issue of weaning the child, they wean the child at eight months and the child is there for 24 months. What we urge the public to do is to come and take the babies from the inmates and they should be aware of the fact that when a person gives birth in prison, the child should not suffer but they should come and take the child after eight months. The husband should get the child or the relatives so that a child grows up in an ideal home and family setup.
On the issue of sanitary wear, they are getting sanitary wear but these pads are being availed by donors and churches. They are the ones providing sanitary wear and clothing as well as medication. They get medication through donors. Government is not doing much to help the inmates. The female inmates also require empowerment programmes such as sewing or market gardening so that after serving their sentences, they are able to self-sustain through these skills.
Mr. President, on the issue of budget, if possible, my request is that in 2023, Government should set aside funds for improving cells in prisons as well as the rooms. What we witnessed in Mutimurefu, the rooms are so tiny and five people are expected to reside in that small room. If they have to sleep, they all have to face one side and if one wants to change the sleeping side, they all have to turn again. I think Government should consider this on the 2023 budget.
On the future of the children that I am talking about, that is where my concern is and that is a painful situation for the children to grow up in such an environment. It affects them psychologically, let us raise awareness out there that if one’s relative is incarcerated and has a child, you should go and get the child. We are not sure when the grounds will be constructed because it will take time. We as the relatives of the inmates, should take the initiative to take the child and allow the child to grow in a normal environment. If I consider what we realised in Lupane, there was one female inmate and the rest were male. The clothes worn by men in Lupane where worn out and I think the Government needs to assist with clothing for the inmates especially those in Lupane. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE
MEETING WITH PRIMSON TRADING (PVT.) LTD.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have an announcement. I would like to inform the Senate that Primson Trading (pvt) Ltd was engaged by Parliament to conduct an evaluation of the Institutional Strategic Plan 2018 to 2023 and the process is currently underway. To this end, they intend to meet the Chairperson and two Members from each Parliamentary Committee on Friday, 26th August, 2022 as follows;
1.The Thematic Committee on Human Rights and the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and Local Government at 0900 hours in Committee Room No. 1.
2.Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment and the Portfolio Committees on Transport and Infrastructural Development and Energy and Power Development at 0900 hours in Committee Room No. 2.
3.Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS and Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Women Affairs and Community Development at 1100 hours in Committee Romm No. 1.
4.Thematice Committee on Peace and Security and Portfolio Committees on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Defence and Homes Affairs and Security Service at 1000 hours in Committee Room No. 2.
Lastly, the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goal, Portfolio Committees on Budget, Finance and Economic Development, Foreign Affairs and International Trade and Public Accounts at 1000 hours in Committee Room No. 4.
*HON. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. Let me add my voice to this motion. I had to rush here because I was attending to another programme and I thought it would be best for me to add a few words in support of the report that was tabled by the Chairperson of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development. I am a member of the Committee and I took part in the tours. We went on tours throughout prisons in the country and we were mainly looking at female inmates who are incarcerated with their children or are pregnant.
We were deeply touched by what we saw. We went to Gokwe Prison, Shurugwi Prison in Midlands, Lupane Prison in Matabeleland North, Khami Prison in Bulawayo and we also went to Mutimurefu Prison in Masvingo. We witnessed the status of women who are incarcerated with their children and realised that the lives that the children were living were very difficult and yet the child is innocent, but have to suffer for the criminal offences of their parents. My request is that the Government should expedite looking into this issue. The Government did not consider that there are children who are staying with their incarcerated mothers in prison.
I want to talk about what we witnessed in Mutimurefu. There are female prisons that were built by the colonialists and these are very tiny such that you find five or six inmates staying in that room. They are unable to even turn when they are sleeping even if there is a child. The child who grows up in such a situation - we all know that cognitive development of a child begins from two years to five years. That is why we take our children to children’s centres.
I do not know how I can put it across but in terms of cognitive development, that child is affected and does not know what is happening outside because a child requires growing up in a normal situation under normal circumstances playing with others. A mother can leave their child to another inmate while she is doing something else. So, we are saying if only the Government could look into this matter and come up with measures as to how those children can be assisted. That is why some children when they join society, their thoughts are all about prisons and you will realise that they have a criminal mind. They believe that, that is the way life is and they end up being arrested.
In terms of water, we realised that there is no water. In other areas where water is available, a child is there and they have their toilet in the same room that they sleep in. Sometimes it is a boy child and you find that children mature early nowadays. In that room there is the toilet and everything is done in that small room and we request that the Government should ensure that those incarcerated female inmates should be given another area for them to serve their sentence since it is a correctional centre.
We are saying that female inmates with children should be segregated from other female prisoners without children and maybe that will assist to build the character of the child. Furthermore, a child at that age should go and play with other kids in general. That is how that child can develop physically and cognitively. We were deeply pained that in our prisons, the food that is eaten by the incarcerated mother is the same food that the baby is given.
If the child gets something better, it is because of the good heart of the donors. They say that in Mutimurefu, the Seventh Day Adventist Church is also contributing and donating to the Prison. We want to name the churches for the good job that they are doing. We were told that there were donors and one of the churches that donated and is dominant is the Seventh Day Adventist.
So we are saying we cannot rely on donations. The Government should step in with measures to ensure that these children get good food for their nutrition. There are women who are arrested or incarcerated when they are pregnant and when the pregnancy is due, it does not matter whether you are incarcerated or not. There are some who experience complications. There are no ambulances that are there to ferry the inmates to referral centres. So we are saying Government should ensure that every female prison has an ambulance to assist such inmates. What I realised is that very few women commit crimes because there are fewer women in prisons than men. As women, we go through menstrual periods every month, so we need sanitary pads. Yes, we heard that they were provided with sanitary pads but they were not from Government. This was coming from donors. We urge Government to also channel funding towards provision of sanitary wear in prisons.
In our African culture, if a woman commits a crime and is incarcerated together with a child – we see street kids mushrooming in the streets, some of them have mothers who are in prisons. Social Welfare is doing its duty but it is overwhelmed. However, even if they look after a child when the mother is in prison, after the age of 6/7, they expect the relatives of the child to take him/her but in our African culture, it will be difficult to have anyone who will volunteer to look after that child. So we are saying that Government, through Social Welfare should look after that child until the mother is out of prison.
We heard that a child can stay in prison for two to four years. So the Government should take over from there. We are also proposing that the Ministry of Finance should allocate more resources to the department of the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Services so that they can take care of the children who accompany their mothers to prison.
We are also saying the Ministry of Health should provide ambulances in prisons so that when a woman develops complications during labour, she can be rushed to the nearest hospital. In 2023, we anticipate that we will have ambulances in all the prisons. The Social Welfare Ministry should also address this. In most things we are looking forward that these measures be taken before the expiry of this Ninth Parliament. With these words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. First and foremost, I would like to thank Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu, the Chairperson of the Gender and Development Committee, who presented this report in this House. I would also like to thank the seconder of the motion. I am not a member of this Committee but with another Committee, we have also visited some female prisons. Really, it is pathetic when we talk about children who are kept in prisons because they are just like anyone who is arrested. The conditions that they live in are for someone who has got a case to answer. Unfortunately, these children have no case to answer. They have not sinned to anyone. They do not know anything about what is happening.
According to the human rights, their children’s rights are violated by staying in prisons when they have no case to answer. The mothers are the ones who have got a case to answer, not the children. I hope that the Government has to provide these innocent children with proper accommodation while they are waiting for their mothers who have got cases to answer to be released. Those who visited those prisons clearly indicated that these mothers have somewhere to stay, which is not user friendly for these children because all children need much care from the time they are born or when they are about to be born. Instead of them getting that care because they did not caused any pain to anyone, that is the time when they suffer the most. When they are born they need food to eat, water to bath and drink and everything that is necessary, yet in those prisons it is limited.
You will find that when we are talking about water, the water that they get is water for each and everyone who has got a case to answer. Really it is not a prison issue at all but a national one. When we talk of the toilets that are being used in prisons they are just found where these people sleep, where they also eat food and when we look at the hygiene part of it, those children are disadvantaged even though they have no case to answer.
When we look at these young children, as they grow while in those prisons, they are just like any other child who is born. They need to go to ECD. We really wonder where they go. They only know those issues to do with stealing and whatever case because of the environment that they stay. These children may be our next presidents or senators but the way they grow up and how they are groomed, no one can tell. No one can tell an interesting story about those children, yet we are there. We are representatives from different places and we are also representatives of these innocent children. They need their space and they need to live happily like any other child. If Government can build rooms where these children can be kept within those prisons but separated maybe from their mothers, which have got enough facilities for the children, it would be better for them.
At prisons, you find that there are lessons that are done by inmates. If they can also find a teacher to groom these children. There is need for an increase in the budget so that some structures to cater for the children can be built. This is not a once off thing, it will always be there. Pregnant women and those with babies will always be there in prisons. We want this situation to come to an end one of the days so that children get some sought of relief during their mothers’ term in prison. Mr. President, I just thought that I could add a few words to this report which has been brought to this august Senate. I so submit. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for the time that you have given me to add my voice. I also want to thank Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu for tabling the report from the Gender and Development Thematic Committee. Their report is very good. Mr. President, we heard of a lot of touching issues that were discussed in this House that shows how forgotten the children who are incarcerated with their mothers are.
Mr. President allow me to say the truth that I brought this matter as a motion and Hon. Senators, both male and females debated this motion and what we wanted was protection of these children. We want these children to stay with their parents in prison and in my opinion, they are also serving sentences with their parents, yet they are innocent. Some are staying in prison for four years with their incarcerated mothers. We said that we needed legislation to protect the children and female inmates because we saw this as a painful situation that affects the children a lot. I hope that as we do our budget as a country, we will remember and consider these children. We should know that they are children of Zimbabwe and should be protected. The Government should come up with legislation that protects these children.
As children grow up, they need clothing. The Social Welfare Department should be given a budget to ensure that clothing for these children is available, such as nappies. There is also need for towels for female inmates with babies. They should be given time to breast feed their children so that the child can have a normal life. We agreed as Senators, both male and female, that we need to enact legislation to protect the children and we also need to avail funding for the protection of these children. These female inmates might have committed criminal offences. When magistrates pass judgements, as outsiders, we cannot tell the judges what to do because those with the authority to see whether the sentence is ideal for the crime are there.
As we proceed Mr. President, the country is ours. As parents, we also wish that our President at times when he pronounces amnesty, it would be good for such inmates to be considered under the Presidential amnesty. So, we need to come up with such recommendations. Incarcerated mothers with children should be beneficiaries of the Presidential amnesty. Some of these children may be the President of tomorrow. Maybe that child will become one of the leaders of Government in future. We do not want to talk much about the mothers but what we are saying is that the children need to be protected and hence, they should be pardoned. That amnesty will also be correctional in that they will not commit a crime again.
A child enjoys playing with other children. So if they can have a normal life in society where they play with other children, even in the prisons where they can play and have fun and then towards the end of the day, they can then be taken back to their mothers in prison to spend the night with them. For a child to be able to walk, it is because of interaction with fellow children whereas in the prisons, they are just protected. They cannot play with any other children, so I reiterate Mr. President, my motion that I moved in this House.
Mr. President, I was not happy with the progress on the motion. We were sent by Parliament to investigate and visit the areas. Yes, it was robustly debated but on the day we came back, that is when I wanted to wind up the motion and I was told that the time had expired for that motion. I was not happy Mr. President. When such a motion has come, a person should be told to wind up. It was not adopted and that affected me a lot. If its time had elapsed on the Order Paper or it had been debated for long, hence it had to be removed from the Order Paper but I know most times you are given time to wind up the motion and move for adoption.
As I conclude Mr. President, we are all aware that women have their menstrual cycle and when they are on their menstrual periods, they should be protected and they should be availed the requisite resources, that is sanitary wear. So I think that is something that needs to be considered private and it preserves the dignity of the women. Those who went around the prisons witnessed this. They witnessed some of the painful situations. Some had children and others were pregnant. Pregnancy is natural and people need to go for periodic check-ups. I want to support the suggestion that they should be availed ambulances and also the requisite human resources to periodically check on them when pregnant and to see whether the pregnancy is progressing well. That is how we can protect our nation. We want this issue to be taken very seriously.
I also have explained that the children we see on the streets, it is because some of the inmates when released; they just tell their children to go and they end up being street kids. So we need to look into that and see what the future of those released out of prison in terms of both the child and the mother is like. On that issue, again Mr. President, it really concerns me that these children are not protected, they need protection.
The Government should ensure that these children are prioritised in terms of education and schools. Yes, we do have BEAM and they should have access to education because of their ages since they were brought up in prison yet they had not committed any crime. So Mr. President, this is a very pertinent issue that was debated in this House brought by Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu and we need to take this seriously. I reiterate that the Government should enact legislation to protect these children. We also heard about the Mutimurefu situation that there are some Seventh Day Adventists who bring donations. They are people of this land, so these children are people of Zimbabwe and the Government should look after them.
I want to conclude Mr. President and I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity and to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Ndlovu for bringing this motion. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Sen. Chirongoma. You are being reminded that when we are in this House, you are supposed to ensure that you stick to the motion. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me an opportunity to debate on this important report. The reason why we visited the female prisons was to check the female prisoners on how they are living in prisons. We visited five female prisons and we visited female prisoners who are breast feeding in particular.
It is very painful for a child to be in prison because of the mother who has been apprehended and incarcerated. It would be like the child is now serving a prison term. The other thing that we wanted to see is whether the children are getting sufficient food when they are in prison. It is very important for a child to get sufficient food when he or she is young so that he or she grows up healthy.
It is not very good for a child to have kwashiorkor when he or she is young. It is worrying that the children are getting food which the adults are eating. We know very well that when you are in prison, all inmates are being given the same food and it is very painful when the child is not given his or her food which is needed for his or her body, and it was said that they are not being given funds to buy food for these children.
The money that they are allocated from Treasury, they are not receiving it on time. Sometimes the prison officers are the ones who end up assisting these children by giving them food. It is very important that there should be enough food for the children to cater for their needs. We thank the prison officers for assisting these children. We are very grateful to non-governmental organisations that assist these children. As Government, we must not rely on NGOs to feed our prisoners, it is not good. There must be projects in prisons that will help prisons feed their inmates. Sometimes it was alleged that some women are giving birth in prisons and they are failing to get ambulance service to take them to hospital.
Government must assist by allocating an ambulance to every prison so that they take the inmates to hospital in cases of emergency. If indeed someone is apprehended or incarcerated while she is pregnant, she should go for check-ups; pregnant inmates are failing to access ante-natal services. The cells are very small and there is no space to relax in these cells and children do not have enough space to run around or play games.
The cells are not habitable because sometimes ablution facilities are in those cells and they use the bucket system to flush. This can cause illnesses like tuberculosis and diarrhea. Government must build separate cells for pregnant women and those with children. It is not healthy if inmates’ toilets are in the same cells which they live in. In Gokwe, the water is rationed and this is not very healthy. The cells must be refurbished because these ones were built during the colonial era. Mentally challenged inmates must not be kept together with other inmates, especially women who are pregnant or women with babies.
The Government must build schools for prisons so that the children will attend school or pre-school. It is very important that they must consider education for children whose mothers are in prison. It was also said that if the child turns two years, the relatives of the mother are free to take the child out of prison. I was suggesting that those with lighter crimes be given community services if they are pregnant or they have babies that are under two years. The Government must introduce projects like garment making and poultry because it will also help the inmates when their jail term ends.
The Government must buy more ambulances for emergency purposes. With these few words, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to add my voice to the motion being debated by my fellow Senators. I think this is the fourth time we are debating this issue in this House on the state of prisons. As we debated before Mr. President, we realised that the incarcerated female prisoners are still experiencing challenges. Most prisons in this country were built without women in mind because crimes used to be done more by men. That is why you hear Senators talking about female inmates being put in a small room. As Government, we are not even taking this into consideration by ensuring that we build more accommodation in prisons to accommodate the women.
Mr. President, when we went around with our Committee at one time, we realised that they were experiencing challenges. What is in place are these makeshift rooms for them to live in. Other Senators even said that children are now used to see every colour as yellow and when they see a different colour, it is not normal to them because of the clothing that was worn in prison. Nowadays prisons are being made as correctional services whereby one is going to be rehabilitated and to assist them as they reintegrate into society. They are also empowered through various projects such as market gardening, sewing and craft making. When they complete serving their sentences, they should be reformed and they should not go back to their previous lives of criminal activities. We expect them to be released as people who are now of good moral standards as they core exist with others in society such that people get surprised with the behaviour after the correctional service period.
Mr. President, the young children who are serving sentence with their mothers, whether they were born there or they companied their mothers when they were sentenced, are facing challenges. They are serving sentences of the crimes committed by their parents. We are saying these children should be taken away from the prison setup to places where they can experience and grow up in a normal life with access to skills and resources that they need as children, which are not available in prison.
Mr. President, we need to ensure that these kids understand the difference of prison life and a normal life. We debated this previously in the Senate. The Senate is the upper House in this country and what we say in this House should be taken seriously. We are expecting to hear that those children with incarcerated mothers are being removed from the prison setup and enjoy a normal life. They should be aware of the fact that they are not criminals. If we do not deal with this matter, we will be found guilty before God because we are making children serve sentences from criminal offences that they did not perform.
Mr. President, we need to look into the issue of getting them out of prison. I thank you.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 25th August, 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that Order of the Day Number 3, be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. WATSON KHUPE
*HON. SEN. MANYAU: Thank you Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day, Number 4 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE BENCHMARK VISIT TO RWANDA
Fifth Order Read: Adjourned debate on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the benchmarking visit to Rwanda on women participation in leadership, politics, decision-making positions and women empowerment in the socio-economic sector from 26th to 31st March, 2022.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume. Thursday, 25th August, 2022.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam construction projects.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 25th August, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING IN THE STREETS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on vulnerable children living in the streets.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 25th August, 2022.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, seconded by HON. SEN. CHINAKE, the Senate adjourned at Fourteen Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rd August, 2022
The National Assembly Met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
NOMINATION TO PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Hon. Raidza and Hon. Dutiro have been nominated to serve in the Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. I stand on a point of national importance for the attention of the august House and specifically for the attention of the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. This is to do with the S.I. which has just been put across by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission regarding the fees for the nomination courts. My concern is on the level of the figures which have been put across whereby for the nomination of a presidential candidate, the fee has been set at US$20,000.00, a candidate standing for the National Assembly has to part with US$1,000.00 and a sitting Councillor, a Provincial Council Member has to part with US$100 and a Senator also has to pay US$100. My appeal is for ZEC to look into this matter urgently, bearing in mind that in this country we do not have access to the US dollars. The amount of money which has been put across is just too exorbitant. So I call upon ZEC to review the figures and for the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, in consultation with ZEC, to come up with a Ministerial Statement where he will explain to the House and justify the cause as well as giving room for Hon. Members to seek clarifications on behalf of the country.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mutseyami. I will ask the Chief Whip to relay the message to the responsible Minister to come with a Ministerial Statement to the House.
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker and fellow colleagues. My point of interest is – as you know that I do not belong to any caucus of any party, maybe they discussed the Members’ welfare after we had a joint Parliament on Thursday and agreed that we would have a joint caucus. I am not aware of the result which came out of there. Maybe I missed something but we were supposed to have had a joint caucus again on Monday but it was postponed. We had other engagements outside the country but cancelled last minute so that we could discuss this noble cause. So, I am not privy to what was agreed or exactly what the Minister committed himself to and because of that, there is an information gap which needs to be filled. So, if the Leader of Government Business or Hon. Togarepi who is the Chair, can tell us so that it is on record because rumours are saying something was agreed to but I do not know what was agreed to exactly. So let it be on record so that we understand. We are very anxious about that and it is difficult for us Madam Speaker, that you address this House whilst we are hungry. We would like to know what was agreed upon. Thank you for allowing the Government Chief Whip to stand in for us but why did he not call us to give us feedback on Monday yet we had made sacrifices – I heard that some ZANU PF members were intimidated with regards to this issue. If we continue intimidating each other, our country will not develop.
HON. TOGAREPI: The Minister is coming and he will make a presentation. I cannot pre-empt and make a mistake in my comments. I can assure Members that from the last day that we talked about our benefits, there has been a frantic effort to resolve some of the issues that were raised by Members. I think the only authority who can then present authoritatively is the Minister. I hope the Minister will come and give us the details. He is coming and we have only one business.
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like to seek clarity Madam Speaker – the Minister has been coming; will the Minister really come? When he comes, what will he really tell us because we are dealing with a serious issue of welfare for Members of Parliament who are human beings? It is not an issue to play with. How do you expect them to debate progressively when they are anxious about their welfare? I think you are taking this lightly. We respect the Chair and Parliament but in any normal country, people would strike. They would not be here to be honest with you and they have no business to be here when they are suffering. When they come to town, they are chucked out of hotels. I saw the Hon. Speaker’s comment when he was asked about the chucking out of Members of Parliament – it is more than inhuman. It removes our dignity. We have no respect any more when we move around. That is the truth of the matter; whether it is the game plan or the strategy of the Executive to make us so poor and be humiliated – men and women who have their homes are being chucked out of the hotels as if they do not have their own homes. It is better that we stay at our homes if there is no budget for our welfare. This is a serious issue. We are waiting for three to four hours for our money – we are tired. Why do you announce things to get such a novel? Now you are saying that the Minister is coming, you still expect him to perform. Is there any vehicle that has been driven without fuel?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of clarity?
HON. T. MLISWA: We want the Hon. Minister to come and address us. What time is he going to address us? Let us adjourn until the Minister comes. We want to know about our welfare. We are not going to let that go. It is important that we know that. No one is revolting but we are hungry – you the leaders have gone against us. This is a serious issue; we do not have stands or anything. The welfare of staff is deplorable yet some Committee Chairpersons are buying big trucks. Some of us cannot afford to do that. Should all of us chair Committees and be corrupt? You want us to be corrupt. Actually, we are now known as criminals because the only way to survive is to be bribed. Would you blame chairpersons if they get into corruption deals if this issue is not being addressed?
This institution is important in the oversight of this country. You cannot underestimate it unless you think it is useless. We might be useless as a people but this institution is not useless. Hon. Chiduwa addressed us on Friday when we met here and the Minister who was supposed to come on Monday did not come. May we know where the Minister is? We cannot continue the business of the day – those who continue, it is between you and God. You must carry your cross. We must adjourn. We want the Minister to tell us about our welfare, the welfare of many other people, the welfare of our staff and the entire country. It is not just about us, things are difficult. School fees have to be paid in USD and how do people pay it when they are paid in RTGs? We want to be treated as human beings. We want the Minister here. Find him. Let the Minister come. We must adjourn until the issue of welfare has been heard.
We pass a budget here but we are not given our money – the Minister must come here. These Ministers were given US$500 000.00 to buy their houses but stands for Hon. Members of Parliament have not been serviced, what wrong have we done? - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have heard you Hon. Mliswa. I have been informed that the Hon. Minister of Finance is coming to Parliament.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
SLOW AND UNSTABLE INTERNET CONNECTIONS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Parliament of Zimbabwe is experiencing slow and unstable internet connections; we are heavily affected during today’s sitting. Tel One is facing technical challenges, so we are going to activate the backup link.
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Judicial Laws Amendment Bill H.B. 3, 2022.
HON. GONESE: In view of the sentiments raised by Hon. Mliswa and also cognisant of the mood in the House following the debate last week on Vote 2, I move for suspension of business until the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development is in the House. The Hon. Chief Whip has already indicated that this is the order of business that we have before us. I think we cannot remain seated, we have a suspension of business, and right now it is Twenty-Five Minutes to Three. I propose that we suspend business until Three o’clock so that by that time, he will definitely be here then we can proceed with business.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I am sorry, we are not going to adjourn the House.
HON. GONESE: But if I have raised a motion … - [AN HON. MEMBER: Divide the House even!] – No, we do not divide the House, you ask for a seconder first – that is the procedure Madam Speaker…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no…
HON. GONESE: Yes, I have moved a motion for the suspension of business. I am a backbencher and am entitled … [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – No, I am just talking of the procedure. The procedure is that if I move a motion, the Hon. Madam Speaker moves for a seconder. Then if there is any objection that is a different issue but my belief is that if I move for suspension of business, she asks for a seconder. If there is anyone who seconds me, I am duly seconded. Thereafter, we suspend business until the Hon. Minister comes. – [HON. T. MLISWA: Chief Whip, ngatimbomira nekuti vanhu varikutitambisa - no, no. Hatingaite izvozvo, tave kutoenda ku vote chaiko chaiko.] – To suspend a business because no one will be prejudiced by that course of conduct.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, today is Government Business and Government Business takes precedence over any other business.
HON. GONESE: Yes, we will still be talking about Government, that is why I am moving for this. It is a motion that I have proposed Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, if you recall, when the House was adjourned, the House was in Committee and the matter under consideration was the Appropriation Bill, Vote 2...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, we can stand over that motion and all other motions, and proceed to other motions.
HON. GONESE: I believe that is a decision for the House to make Madam Speaker. If I move a motion, it is for the House to decide and if I am seconded and there is support for the motion that I proposed, then business is suspended. I am not saying that we are going to proceed to any other business. I am simply saying that until the Hon. Minister is in attendance, we are simply suspending business.
As indicated by Hon. Mliswa and I share his sentiments, at this present moment, Hon. Members are waiting anxiously to understand what the response is. It must be taken in the context of the fact that there was a Joint Caucus that was supposed to have taken place yesterday, which we are not sure as to why it was cancelled. The long and short of it is that Hon. Members still require answers to the issues that they raised both on the floor of the House and in the Joint Caucus.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members will get the answers when the Hon. Minister is here.
HON. GONESE: That is the reason why we are asking for suspension of business so that we proceed…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we cannot suspend business. Hon. Chief Whip, please suspend business
HON. GONESE: No, but it is not for the Chair, the House is the one that makes such resolutions Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, Hon. Gonese.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 28 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 29 has been disposed of.
HON. T. MLISWA: I object! I object! My objection Madam Speaker, the mental capacity of Members of Parliament, most of them, - [AN HON. MEMBER: How did you get that?] – I said most, I did not say all of them…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why are you speaking on their behalf?
HON. T. MLISWA: No, because we … - [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Nyarara, iwewe wakatuka Mnangagwa iwewe!] – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Iwewe wakatuka …murikurega vanhu vachiwora mugere] – Hon. Chinotimba, izvo hazvineyi ne welfare shamwari, musadhaivhete attention. - [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjection.] – No, no Hon. Chinotimba, ngatisiyaneyi nazvo – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, this is not proper. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Please Hon. Members, the Hon. Speaker is speaking.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, may you please approach the Chair?
Hon. Mliswa approached the Chair.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your indulgence. I do support that we suspend debate on the Finance Bill and deal with other issues, waiting for the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to come. I have no issues with that. So the Finance Bill should be suspended until the Hon. Minister comes but we continue with business of the day. I thank you.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. LEONARD CHIKOMBA
Twenty-Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the death of Hon. Leonard Chikomba.
Question again proposed.
*HON. O. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like talk about the late Hon. Leonard Chikomba who passed away on 28th May, 2022. The motion that was moved by Hon. Ngwenya, seconded by Hon. T. Moyo.
It is quite painful that we have people who pass away because of fatigue whilst driving. We were together in Gweru during that particular day attending a ZANU PF meeting. We spent the day together then he drove to Gokwe. It is a long journey, driving alone at night without an assistant driver after spending the day working. If you encounter a tyre puncture, no one will be able to assist. If at all he had a relief driver, he could have been alive today.
Madam Speaker, I believe that it is important that Hon. Members of Parliament have assistant drivers. Some Hon. Members drive very long distances, driving alone day and night doing constituency visits and other parliamentary duties. Looking at Hon. Chikomba’s Constituency, it is very far and the roads are in a dilapidated state.
Hon. Chikomba was a committed patriot, I know that at some point he would carry and assist people in his constituency. He was also a businessman; we noted that he worked for the people and served them in various ways. His passing on leaves a big gap which will be difficult to fill in our political part ZANU PF. He is one Member who used to work very hard for his constituency. Looking at his passing on, it will be very difficult to fill his shoes. He also was very passionate about sporting activities. We would go around with him looking for football kits to give to the rural communities.
The late Hon. Chikomba was a fatherly figure who used to guide us even in politics. He taught us how to lead people. As Parliament, we lost because Hon. Chikomba was a very humble person who was committed to all his duties as a Parliamentarian.
Madam Speaker, the Ninth Parliament has lost a number of Members of Parliament. We need to sit down and understand why we are losing a lot of people like that. Some were not sick but they passed away because of road carnages. We are not also sure whether we are going to make it for the Tenth Parliament because of the road accidents which are happening on most of our roads.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, there is a great need to consider the welfare of Hon. Members of Parliament. If Hon. Chikomba had a driver, then he would have been here today. If at all our welfare was being given the right attention, I believe that Hon. Members would be coming to this House without any challenges. The late Hon. Chikomba passed away in deep sorrow. I am saying this because we would talk. Driving from Harare to Gokwe working on behalf of his constituency and the nation at large without any token of appreciation is demoralising.
Lastly, I would like to say may Hon. Chikomba rest in peace. We are all going to follow one day. His family should be looked after. We know that there are some Members of Parliament who have passed on but their families are not given any benefits. Many of them pass away and the Parliament of Zimbabwe does not bother to look at the welfare of the family. My plea is: let us remain united whilst we are alive and even after death. We do not have to pretend that we are together but we need to look after each other whether in death or in good health.
When we went to the burial of Hon. Chikomba, we went there but the Administration of Parliament did not send any of its representatives to check whether the family of Hon. Chikomba was okay or not. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, I stand to say a few words concerning the passing on of the late Hon. Chikomba who when he passed on, was in good health. We would sit down most of the times talking about business with the late. He would say he empowered his son to run his business.
However, in support of the issue regarding road carnages and accidents in the country, there are a lot of incidences of Hon. Members and even Ministers who have been involved in these road accidents. We are aware that our country is under sanctions but can we not copy other countries like South Africa, Namibia, Angola and Botswana. For instance, if we look at what is happening in Malawi, a Member of Parliament is an honoured individual. We do not want to be revered but all the countries that I have mentioned, you would find that their welfare is very much considered.
We must be having personal drivers and personal assistants and offices in our constituencies or the Parliament of Zimbabwe. I went to the Parliament of South Africa and I saw a marvel. I spoke to Hon. M. Ncube that can we not copy what is happening in these countries. You find Hon. Speakers of Parliament having three drivers because just being seated in that august Chair is quite painful; you need at least three drivers. A driver should not drive for 8 or 24 hours without being relieved. A driver should drive for four hours and is relieved. This issue of the passing on of Hon. Chikomba pains us. As Hon. Members of Parliament, we would like to say that if possible – I am glad that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is here, we need to have a budget for Hon. Members to have drivers. I was saying the day before yesterday that the food that we eat in hotels every day costs almost $100 000 while we are earning $70 000. The food that we eat per year could be $1.7 million. You would rather give a driver than to give me such food. Our late Hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Chikomba, passed on and this really affects us. Let me end by saying that if possible, may the opposition live long so that they would lose elections and we beat them properly in the polls. Give them drivers so they will have someone accompanying them. Thank you.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also want to contribute on the motion about the passing on of Hon. Chikomba. I worked with him in the last Parliament…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Sibanda. Vehicle with registration number AFK8519 is blocking other vehicles. May the owner please go and remove it.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was saying Hon. Chikomba could not have been involved in the accident if we were paid over $2000 because he could have serviced his vehicle. Again, Hon. Chikomba could have survived if the Minister of Finance had given the Ministry of Transport enough money to rehabilitate the road from Kwekwe to Gokwe-Kabuyuni. Hon. Chikomba would have been surviving today. That road is not worth to be used by vehicles, it is meant for scotch carts. I am pained by the death of Hon. Chikomba. We condemn the Minister of Finance for not giving us sufficient money to cater for ourselves. This has resulted in the death of Hon. Chikomba because his vehicle was not serviced. Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance should take note that he should give MPs enough money so that they can service their vehicles to avoid untimely deaths like that of Hon. Chikomba. The salaries we are paid are not worth. If I am to travel from here to Tsholotsho, the road is not passable and that will result in an accident. The Hon. Minister should give us money to service our vehicles. We are all mourning Hon. Chikomba. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was charged with bribe together with Hon. Chikomba. A Committee was set up to investigate us for taking a bribe. The committee was to investigate myself Hon. Mliswa, Hon. Chikomba, Hon. Ndebele and Hon. Sibanda Madubeko Prince. What affected me the most and what this Parliament must do is to bring closure when you have allegations on people. That matter still has not been closed in this Parliament. Investigations happened, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira was the Chairperson of it and he is supposed to come back to this Parliament. Basically, he died with an allegation that he accepted a bribe. It is sad because it is written. It is in the history. The process happened and he was exonerated and I am hoping that Chief Whip, Hon. Sen. Charumbira comes and closes it here. Members debated on it and without closure; it is a bit of a problem. Basically, if you have to describe him and if people were true, they would say he used to bribe because there is no record in this House which says he was exonerated. That is the danger of using certain weapons to fight ourselves politically. That committee was not really set up for him. It was set up for me specifically. The target was me.
When I was exonerated and Goddard said he has never met me and I have never spoken to him or ask him for any money, they wilted down. There was no need to go any further. I am hurt because the motion was moved by Hon. Mataranyika and I think it is incumbent upon himself to also bring it up so that it is brought to closure. It is wrong for him to bring a motion to say people received bribes and he is not ready to see that motion coming back to be closed. Whoever moves a motion must be able to close it. I hope Hon. Mataranyika’s conscience must be his master. Let us not just point fingers at people without us going there. So, he was smeared. In his constituency, they saw him as somebody who accepts bribes. Yes, he was one of the few well-to-do MPs who worked hard. He had his own resources. So, how then can you reverse it to say to him you did not do it? That is for you and God really but I thought I would bring it up to put it on record that he was exonerated and he was not at all a criminal in any manner. He was a strong man who did his business, had his own trucks and did quite a lot to empower his family and all that.
Hon. Chikomba, I was his Chairman in the Mines and Energy Committee and he contributed well. We worked as a team and it was probably one of the best Committees I can ever think about with Hon. Zhou and them. There was no partisan politics. What we did was to work but we knew when he spoke that there are certain people, when you are Chairman of a Committee, when they speak, you do not listen to them. Hon. Zhou, I will think twice about listening to him and taking his advice but Hon. Chikomba, when he spoke, he was the voice of reason and you would want to take what he said at the end of the day because he was a selfless person who served his constituency. If you see winning your constituency as many times as he did, it shows you are a man of the people no matter what you do and so forth.
What is important Madam Speaker is to always question ourselves that we do die, chasara kufa. What then happens and what legacy do we leave? What legacy does Parliament leave and so forth? We are glad the Hon. Minister of Finance is here. I will die and he will die but he fights for his legacy. What do you leave for your children? We live for our children and families. So, what is it that you leave for them at the end of the day after serving a country the way these people do; fearlessly, selfless but still you leave this Parliament with a legacy of poverty. Nobody leaves this Parliament with anything. Right now you are losing elections because of no resources and you get a young person who for four or five months, runs around with money and wins an election because we were incapacitated all the time.
The budget that we pass for Information Centres; Hon. Chikomba must have left a legacy in his constituency that he has an Information Centre. Those Information Centres are not for us but for the people. We do not go with them when we die or when we leave this office. We leave them in those constituencies. So to me, why do we not do certain things? He goes after the budget has been passed and tells his constituency like anybody else that there will be an Information Centre. People are waiting for it and now he dies they say akanyepa. The next MP who will come will have difficulties. We are planting, grooming and breeding a pedigree of MPs who have no credibility yet we pass things here and that is so sad if you think about it. How many MPs are really accepted after their term of office has expired? Not many and they are paupers.
Hon. Minister, I am glad that you think of Ministers with families that they must have houses but Hon. Members also have families and must have houses. When Ministers are getting houses for US$350 000...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please stick to the motion?
HON. T. MLISWA: The motion is; Hon. Chikomba was left with nothing and it is sad, and that is my motion. He had no house and the stand which is supposed to be serviced has not been serviced. No one will get the stand and no one will fight for it because if you cannot fight for your own things when you are alive, who will fight for you? Kana iwewe wafa muridzi wechinhu anorwira zvinhu wafa ndiani? Hapana. So to me, we leave these families to suffer and all that. Hon. Chikomba was a big man and health issues happen, and when your welfare is not good, the stress level is high. It is difficult for these MPs to pay attention because stress levels are high. I release it by talking but others keep quiet, which is dangerous. If I do not do that, I will die here and so forth.
People deal differently with stress levels and this job is stressful that is why MPs must have a month where they go for a massage to relax your body – [Laughter.] – But I am being honest. You do not know that to relax your body and your mind, your mind must be relaxed for you to be effective. When you talk about wellness, it is the state of the mind and state of the mind cannot be there if you do not go to the gym. You should be members of exclusive gyms so that you go there, look good and release stress. If you do not release stress, it piles up and then you die. Blood pressure is high, sugar levels are high and so forth, and that is why we encourage that.
Hon. Chinotimba spoke about diet. We do not care what people say about us anymore, whether the media says we want a three course meal - rightfully so. It must be a balanced diet. There are people here suffering from sugar and with different diseases who must be given a nutritious diet. We leave our houses; some of us have three chefs in our houses and we choose. We have a Chinese, Japanese and an African chef and the meal depends on what I want to eat on the day. So, when I come here and you are exposing me to sadza every day, the starch levels are too high, no salads and so forth, it affects people. I am a professional in fitness and I can tell you that you cannot take too much starch. Seventy percent of the plate is starch and 30% is protein yet it should be the other way around and you use protein as a source of energy. You will see that the banana you are given every day, fruit salad is not there and all that. It is really difficult at the end of the day for us to discharge our duties.
The issue of drivers Hon. Speaker, at times we take things lightly. For me, I stand here to defend the welfare of the Members of Parliament, not because I need it but because of the office. It is the office that must be respected. I do not need this salary. I have never gotten a Member of Parliament car since I was an MP because I do not need it but the office must be respected. You the individual, how do you discharge your duties when the office is not resourced and that is the issue. Forget about who your friend is; whether he is an MP or you do not like the other but how do you discharge your duties? Some of us always win the elections because we always budget $250 000 to put in there. I make a million from maize and $250 000 goes towards the elections but those who do not have it, how do you do it?
You can go and do a lifestyle audit but I am talking a minimum of what I make on my farm. I put in $250 000 in my constituency without the CDF and that is why at times I do not take it because you will be in trouble yadyiwa neinflation watora mari iyoyo apa wapromiser six boreholes kwabuda one. Unototi zviri nani ndikasabata nekuti amwe five vanototi akaba mari. That is the truth of the matter and that is why I do not rush to take the CDF because it is a problem. When people ask me in the constituency, I tell them it is there if you want to go and take it, go and take neinflation inenge yadyiwa.
All these issues that we are talking about are critical in building this country because this institution must be strong. Hon. Members and Madam Speaker, we are not doing this for ourselves. It is like the war veterans of this country, they are no longer fighting for themselves. What do they need? What does Hon. Nguluvhe or Hon. Gwanetsa need today? They are doing it for people to come. It is an obligation the country must meet in looking after its own people. So the war veterans, civil servants and Members of Parliament are not looked after. How then can we say we have a functional system? It has become dysfunctional. We must make sure that Members of Parliament’s welfare is taken care of. You have an obligation to do it. We must not be thanking the Minister of Finance for doing things which we have agreed on in the Budget. Now we beg to say, Minister can you do this for us. . If the Minister says he has no money, he should come and tell us that there is no money because you borrow basing on the money you get. Hon. Lwazi Sibanda spoke about US$2000 which you get and is minimal in terms of the SADC standards. Now it is less than US$100. How can somebody be paid less than US$100 and then you tell me that when they see an opportunity to be corrupt, they will not be corrupt. We are aiding corruption. Incapacitation of Parliament is aiding corruption at the end of the day.
I really wanted to say that Hon. Chikomba was a man of the people. He worked hard. He did what he did. I want to pose a question Madam Speaker to Members of Parliament here and they should answer silently. If you have an accident in your constituency and the hospital is 5km away, would you go there. Would you say you are safe? Answer yourself. If you know that you are going to die, what about the ordinary person. Ask yourself - the roads that you use in your constituency, are they good enough. You have failed to go to a hospital, the next question is that are your roads good enough to take you to the nearest hospital, Gweru which is good? No, you die on the road. The other question is that would you take your children to the schools that are in your constituency which others are going to?
To me these are thought provoking questions which you must ask yourself that can I take my child to this school. How many Members of Parliament here are sending their kids to schools in their constituencies? The question is why – why are you not going to hospitals in your constituency. All these questions if you cannot answer them, then there is something wrong. We must be comfortable to be injured in our constituencies because the health delivery system is up to it. Anything must be up to scratch. Again, it is a question of resources.
Members of Parliament do get tired when they are driving. The last time they were waiting for money here because of the fuel situation; I was looking at them and I was saying how are they going to go back? They are tired and stressed. They need to go home and provide for their children. How many Members of Parliament when they go home, really tell a story about what they did in Parliament and what Parliament is about? For me when I get home to my 12 kids, I dance to Amapiano with them. If they ask me how was Parliament, I tell them we will talk about it later, let us play 30- seconds. I do not know if you know a game called 30-minutes that in certain seconds you must answer a question. That is a game we play now, 30-seconds. Children look up to you when you come home. They expect you to have sweets and something. If you do not have these, how can you call yourself a father when you get home with nothing in your hands? You may take this lightly but the children start losing respect for our profession.
I want to thank you Madam Speaker for indulging me. Hon Chikomba was a great man. Unfortunately, we did not do what we had to do in terms of exonerating him. I thought I would make the record clear that he was exonerated. He did nothing wrong and may his soul rest in peace. He was a big gentle giant who had no fight with anyone. He would talk to Hon. Ndebele – with Hon Ndebele I was thinking one day that is he not convincing him to join ZANU PF because they were so close. I was actually thinking that Hon. Ndebele would jump camp. If Hon. Ndebele was here, I am sure he would jump because of the good man Hon. Chikomba was - because he is no more, I do not think he would jump camp.
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. L. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th August 2022.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: I move that we revert to Order of the Day Number 1 on today’s Order Paper.
HON. L. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY:
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE
House in Committee:
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker we accepted your ruling because we know you are a Chair, a leader and a Speaker of your word that we would wait for the Minister of Finance to get here while the House is together so that he can talk to us about welfare because at Committee Stage, that would be very impossible. It has to be on record while you are there in terms of our welfare. Now that he is here, may he just give us a synopsis of what he has for us which I hope is a great package?
THE HON DEPUETY SPEAKER: I am sorry I have read that we are in Committee of Supply. We cannot go back. We have already passed that stage.
HON T. MLISWA: It is based on your ruling and there were no objections. You said the Minister of Finance should come. I was actually saying may that ruling see the light of day. That is your ruling. The House is like this, this is when you must speak to the House and not Committee Stage.
There is Hon. Rwodzi and Hon. Chombo who are Deputy Ministers. They usually do not sit here but they are Members of Parliament. I am sure they would want to understand what package there is for them. It was your ruling Madam Speaker. Icho ndochokwadi chaicho, Mwari arikudenga. Ruling yamapa kuti kana vauya vachataura tikarega kuita nharo tikagara pasi. Iye zvino vadzoka tave kunzvengeswa and so forth. Ndepapi pakanzi ma Order haareveswe? Tave kuenda kumutemo. Chairman anokanganisa ogadzirisa.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will allow the Minister of Finance to respond to your concerns.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I want to thank Hon. Mliswa for his contribution and request on this very important matter. I must say that the supplementary budget will respond to the welfare of Members of this august House as you will see when we come back to Vote No 2. I am going to propose that we increase the budget for Parliament so as to take care of the welfare of Members of this august House. I will also propose that the CSRO should work with us in Treasury, so we implement the issue around the information centres for Members of Parliament and to ensure that the constituency visit allowance is released on time and backdated to January. I listened carefully last week when some Members, I think it was Hon. Sithole if not mistaken, who argued that perhaps we should not differentiate across constituencies because we have three categories that is 120lts for 650 000 ha and 160lts for between 650 000ha to 1.3mil ha in terms of size of constituencies and for over 1.3mil ha its 200lts. We have done that but the CSRO can also work with us to see whether we need to stick to this approach or not. This came from the Administration of Parliament (Mr. Chokuda’s office) and we endorsed it as Treasury. I just want to say that we are very sensitive to the plight of Members of Parliament, so I suggest that we increase the budget and there is a figure that I am going to propose but CSRO, I think should call a special session for us to discuss the welfare of MPs including the housing which has been raised. This is a very important issue and I endorse what has been raised before this House. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to thank the Minister for his assurances. However, his assurances are on the back drop of inconsistencies and it becomes very difficult for us to have confidence in the assurances. We passed a budget here of our cars - $80,000 and it was cut down to $50,000 but nobody came to Parliament to tell us of the cut. As the Minister, you will be looking at discharging your duties well by passing these budgets, so when you pass this budget you are gone and you do not look back while the MPs continue to suffer. I am giving an example of things that we passed in the last budget and most of them were not done. How much confidence can we put in what you have said because the whole point of this issue is that we must not pass this supplementary budget because of inconsistencies and lack of delivery on what would have been agreed to in this House?
If a budget is passed here, why would anybody go against it? This is what I was saying to my Hon. colleagues that we seem to be passing a supplementary budget but the Minister has not yet paid everything in the last budget. So you want the bank to top up your debt before you have paid off the previous debt. How can you ask for more money surely? The issue here is the budget that we passed is the country’s budget. So, when we are standing up here it is not just for us but for everyone. We are the ones with the mandate to pass the budget. So if we as MPs are thrown under the bus, how about the civil servants, what will happen to them? This has been happening to us for some time and we have no one to question because we will have already passed the budget.
The Minister asked to meet with the CSRO but as the Committee, there is nothing truthful that you tell us. So we get angry with the Minister but you heard him saying you should meet as the board representing our welfare. Now, we are not sure who is telling lies. The Minister is talking of a meeting with CSRO but we do not have confidence in the CSRO. Hon. Minister, if you look deeply and closely at the faces of Hon. Members and if you were to go around and test their heart beats – I know you are a Harvard scholar, you will see that people are dejected and are just sitting there while their minds are elsewhere. It then becomes difficult for people to pass a budget when their mind is not there.
We asked for a few things and the last time you said we should meet but you did not come on Friday and on Monday there was no meeting. But Minister, you and Hon. Ziyambi also sit on the CSRO if I am not mistaken; so when you tell us you must sit with the CSRO, I now do not understand unless you are saying CSRO is not functioning properly. The last time, remember we met in the Senate and we agreed on certain issues and it would be nice for you to single out issues because people are saying for us to move forward we must agree that these things should be done. For you to say I will increase the budget – what is it for? There is inflation and we did not factor it in. Now school fees is in US dollars and government has allowed that. So why do we not get paid in US dollars as well so that we pay our school fees in US dollars for our kids?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, can you allow the Hon. Minister to respond to your concerns.
HON. T. MLISWA: So Minister, you know and I do not want to seem to be targeting you but we have had these meetings before. There have been plans for free duty for a car worth $60,000 in place but MPs do not have the money to buy the car. You heard about the deaths of MPs because of using one car which is not serviced. I think death will come before you as Minister of Finance because of welfare of the Members of Parliament. May God intervene at this moment and may you just cushion with God’s wisdom using that discerning spirit that you have in academia in terms of supporting the MPs. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I want to thank Hon. Mliswa for that very passionate contribution. Hon. Mliswa raised a point that we have held meetings and wanted to know how I had responded to requests from those meetings and that is very specific. In the last CSRO meeting which I attended, I was asked to do three things. The first one was to adjust salaries and sitting allowances for Members of Parliament and I did that. I was then asked to do something about the medical support for MPs and I did that. We have now made sure that the medical services are similar to those of civil servants where government contributes 80% and the sitting Member contributes 20%. I was asked to do those three things salary, sitting allowance and then the medical support - I responded and wrote to Parliament about it. If there is any further requests, those again can be considered in the light of the Supplementary Budget. I am assuming that there will be further requests in September, which is next month.
There was an issue of housing that we discussed in that CSRO meeting. There are two issues, Members of Parliament from the Eighth Parliament who had paid for their stands but those stands were not delivered from the Government side – those are the facts. The Minister of Local Government was tasked to find out what was going on and so forth. I think they are still trying to conclude that aspect to deal with the legacy issue.
Then there is an issue of Members of Parliament housing now; again that is an issue we have to deal with at CSRO to see whether we can put in a scheme – maybe work with a building society or some form of mortgage arrangement; that has not been concluded as yet.
On the issue of the second car which was not discussed in the last CSRO but I thought I had responded before that meeting. It was said that MPs needed to have an opportunity to import their own cars and that a rebate allowance be extended, initially I responded to that request but later on a delegation of two MPs came to see me. I will not say their names because I do not think they have got any specific position but they said that they were sent to ask for an increase on that. I then went back after a week and increased that rebate allowance from US$40 000 to $60 000 for the second car. Again, I issued the necessary Statutory Instrument to cover that. I have responded to the issues but it could be degrees. I just wanted to answer Hon. Mliswa precisely on that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, it cannot be you always.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I am the one who raised this issue – those who have ears have heard where our problem is. Thank you Hon. Minister for being honest – you said you wrote to CSRO and the request comes from this board which represents us. The Minister is on record saying that the requests coming from the organ that supports us were three. I think it will be foolish of me to really go for you. The Hon. Minister has told us what he did and he also wrote letters and he was told what to do. What we request does not go straight to him. It would be foolish for me to continue bothering Hon. Mthuli.
Madam Speaker, I request that as MPS, we would like to meet with the CSRO when the Speaker who Chairs this Committee is back so that we discuss our concerns since the Minister has stated his position. This has been captured by Hansard. We would like to know whether these are the only concerns that were presented to the CSRO. Hon. Mthuli and Hon. Ziyambi will be there to answer and if there is anyone who is sleeping on duty, then they would be answerable. Thank you very much for that response Hon. Minister. It helps us.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: I applaud the Hon. Minister for what he has said. We did not see a concrete plan from the concerns raised in this House. We are just continuing in circles. We need a sustainable solution – there is no response that the Minister is giving us. Of all the serious concerns that we raised, there is nothing concrete that the Minister has said.
Is the Minister aware that the company that supplied MPs with vehicles is refusing to service the vehicles saying Parliament did not pay them despite the balance that they owe Parliament? You are also giving us a rebate of US$60 000 – what about the other outstanding items that you are leaving behind? These are the specific things we expect the Minister to be addressing in this House.
On housing stands, I propose that there be a sustainable plan where MPs are allowed to acquire residential stands in their respective constituencies in a procedural manner.
*HON. T. MLISWA: We have several Members who sit in the CSRO and they have not disputed what the Minister has said. The CSRO Members are getting their needs and they forget us. ...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: No, Hon. Madam Speaker – there are Members of the CSRO here present, you sit on it, Hon. Ziyambi, Hon. Togarepi, Hon. Mpariwa and Hon. Mutseyami also sit on it. You all sit on it but you are not responding. This means that you are confirming what the Minister has said. Why are you not disputing it?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker, it is very correct that we have heard conversations within the CSRO regarding the welfare of MPs. There are issues that are outstanding that need implementation on the side of Parliament administration that we agreed on – one of them being the constituency fuel allocation; I think Parliament administration needs to follow up but because the time that we had this meeting in June/July, we have not had another meeting. I think it was our last meeting. We need to have another meeting to find out what has been implemented and what is outstanding. My plea to Hon. Members is; can we now proceed and like what Hon. Mliswa had said, we will first of all sit down as a Committee and review what we discussed the last time we met and see what is still outstanding, and new concerns and then we can have meetings with MPs. I thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am.
House in Committee.
On Vote 2:
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Hon. Chairman for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate, if not, respond to a very robust contribution from Hon. Members of this august House. I thank them for the contributions of last week and also contributions today. I therefore, respond as follows:
As Treasury, we had proposed to increase Vote 2 by ZWL2.8billion rounding off, I now propose to put in an additional ZWL2 billion for Parliament that will take the additional supplementary figure to ZWL4.8billion. This will go towards looking after the welfare of Members of this august House who have had a robust debate. Then our work with the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders (CSRO) will be to work on a plan to assist Members with various aspects of their welfare. I thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Chairman, just to put it on record. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the attempt to increase the Parliamentary budget. However, I still feel that there is a gap in terms of the resource envelope that he has provided for. In view of the fact that, I think, we have all agreed that we have hanging issues that have not been resolved by the Hon. Minister pertaining to the welfare of Members of Parliament; pertaining to the Eighth Parliament, the stands; pertaining to the cars, repairs and even the service of the vehicles because that was put across in the CSRO.
It is unfortunate that the Chair of the Committee, the Hon. Speaker is not in the House. I do not think that it would be fine for us to leave this House thinking that the CSRO is not standing for the issues of Hon. Members. Singling out the three issues that have been mentioned by the Hon. Minister, I do not think that is the whole list of issues that have been tabled before the CSRO. This also includes the hanging envelope in terms of payments for the stands Hon. Minister. You did not mention and inform this constituency that that was tabled before you, and you said that you were also trying to look for resources in order to service the stands.
There is a whole list of issues and not only three but those issues are before the CSRO. I thought that should be put on record as issues that have been tabled before the CSRO. If he attempts to take three or four, there remains but several issues that have been tabled before the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Hon. Member for that contribution to this debate on Vote 2. When it comes to the current budget, Parliament has only utilised about 35% of the budget. So there is still room on the current budget to spend more, Parliament has only spent about ZWL5 billion out of the ZWL15 billion, so there is room on the existing budget and what we are doing now is putting in an additional ZWL2 billion. In our calculation, we think that this ZWL2 billion will be needed given the needs that Hon. Members raised and I agree with them. So I think, if the Hon. Member, could bear with us,we think that this ZWL2 billion will go a long way.
Also, we are three months away from the November budget as well because this cannot all be solved in one day or one month. There is still additional resources from next year’s budget for us to continue to resolve the issues especially of accommodation which has taken time – we also have next years’ budget to be able to handle that requirement. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for his response. However, I think what is critical Mr. Chairperson is for the Hon. Minister to provide us with concrete information. If we just talk about figures, I think that what is more important is that we have several issues that are outstanding. The Hon. Minister in his response alluded to the stands that are still outstanding from the Eighth Parliament. What has been the problem is the issue of resources for those stands to be serviced. We now have the Ninth Parliament again, nothing has happened in terms of the allocation of stands. Primarily because the resources that are required for those stands to be serviced and allocated to Hon. Members of Parliament has not happened. Now we have the issue of the ZWL60 000.00 facility, Hon. Members of Parliament do not have the money to buy the vehicles – that facility is as good as nothing. It is as if it is not there if the majority of the Hon. Members are not in a position to utilise it.
I believe that whatever figures the Hon. Minister is going to come up with, let us have a breakdown as to what is going towards these specific issues. As it stands, if we talk of ZWL2 billion and then translate that to USD, it is USD2 million and it will not go far in terms of the specific needs and requests of Hon. Members which the Hon. Minister indicated that he is prepared to address. At the end of the day, those issues are not being addressed. So my proposal Mr. Chairperson is that the Hon. Minister should tabulate what those figures are going to be there for because you remember last time at the beginning of this particular Parliament, it had been agreed that Members of Parliament would get a loan for ZWL80 000 which was reduced to ZWL50 000 without a proper explanation.
The fear of the Hon. Members is that we are going to have a repeat; some of these things will just remain in the air because nothing specific is going to happen. So if there is no breakdown on the ZWL2 billion on how it is going to be utilized, you find that at the end of the day, it is not going to address probably even 10% of the issues because we are talking of the constituency visit allowance, and Parliamentary Constituency Information Centres.
If we do not have the breakdown you find that figure; I know that the Hon. Minister has talked about the budget in November but I believe that at this juncture, it is all important for all the legacy issues to be dealt with in this supplementary budget so that when we go forward, we are starting on a new page. If the Hon. Minister does not give us specifics we can then perhaps give him more time so that before we pass that Vote, we have got the specifics.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I think it is an unusual request for a Minister of Finance to be asked to give a breakdown of expenditure by an MDA. It is never done like that. The Minister of Finance agrees to extend an envelope of resources but he is a Member of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, he then works with the Parliamentary administration Finance to give an exact breakdown of how that ZWL2 billion or whatever is spent. So, for me to come here and give that breakdown, what will the CSRO do? What will the Parliamentary Administration do? I would have taken over their job. It is unusual for the Minister of Finance to be able to provide that information.
However, I want to say two further things; on the issue of stands, I want to say for the record, this issue was being handled by the Ministry of Local Government…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! The Minister has just said, “It is not my job to work things out for you” the next question is - as Parliament, how much have we requested and what is the breakdown? We should not be asking the Minister of Finance for a breakdown, therefore there is no point in us proceeding if Parliament did not submit what we wanted and breaking it down. No wonder why as Parliament, before a supplementary budget, we do a caucus to agree. We never had a caucus to know what was happening and so forth, so I would like to know whether Parliament submitted the amount of money and breakdown they want to the Hon. Minister of Finance.
HON. TOGAREPI: Hon. Chairperson, from what the Minister has said, only 33% of the budget that we gave them last year for this year has been utilised. The other percentage is still there. Now, the Minister has given us something and he is adding ZWL billion on it. It is now the CSRO’s duty because Members have asked money to move towards certain needs to them then move the money and give the Minister the proposal.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): All Members were asked to come to the House, Hon. Markham.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, Hon. Members!
*HON. HWENDE: Thank you Chair. On a point of clarification, there are two issues concerning the Minister’s response. The Minister is saying he cannot make an allocation but that is supposed to be done by the CSRO...
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Can you get connected please. There are some Members on virtual who want to hear you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Mr. Chairman, I was proposing that Vote Number 2 waits until the Speaker comes and we hear the truth. We cannot debate it. He is the Chairman of the Committee and the Minister of Finance has spoken to us on issues which need the Chairman to respond. Other Members of Parliament cannot respond as well as the Speaker. We want to ask a lot of questions. How much money did they propose? What is the situation on the outstanding stands and so forth?
*We want to leave this issue until the Executive talks to us because they make decisions without us. We can discuss it when the Chairperson of the Committee, the Speaker, is in the House. We need to know the breakdown of the monies and the allocations. We did not get that information. There is no caucus that I attended and no feedback was given to us regarding our pleas. I think we need to wait for the Chairman, the Hon. Speaker. We cannot continue debating this issue without the Chairperson of the SROC. We need to hear from the Speaker when he attends the next sitting because we can run all over the place without addressing the issue.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Chairman, I propose that we proceed with other Votes and the Clerk will join us later so that he can explain the processes on how the budgeting for Parliament was done. I request that we can skip it and proceed with the rest. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Vote 2 deferred.
On Vote 3 - Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare - $34,897,442,000:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Chairman, there are two issues that I wanted to raise on the Vote 3, Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and I guess it covers across many boards. It appears as if there is a huge amount of money that is going for hiring services. I would want the Hon. Minister to advise this august House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Mliswa. Please take your seat.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I was saying there is a huge charge on hiring charges and I actually note that it is reflected on Vote 3 and cuts across the various Votes. I want the Hon. Minister to advise us why the Government is paying so much in terms of hiring charges. The second issue which is crucial is the Hon. Minister, in his response to the debate, talked about the question of salaries of civil servants that they were above poverty datum line. I was going to ask the Hon. Minister, bearing in mind that we are dealing with the Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, that would it not be possible Hon. Minister, and I see there is an adjustment in terms of the salaries there. I want to find out from the Hon. Minister whether Treasury has considered the quest of possibly shifting or moving the US$175 to a figure of say maybe US$250 and then adjust on the RTGs as well. So, I needed clarification from the Hon. Minister in terms of the salary increases, does it reflect on the US$ component or it has to do with the RTGS because considering what is happening, I believe that any increase should be on the US$ component.
HON. MPARIWA: I want to thank the Minister for the adjustment which focuses on the well-being of people –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Mliswa, may you sit down please.
HON. MPARIWA: Hon. Speaker, you may realise that this particular Ministry has a lot of responsibilities in terms of people that are disadvantage and my plea to the Minister was to increase the Vote especially on those that are to do with programmes on social welfare, social benefits and also on BEAM so that this Ministry will be able to carry out its responsibilities adequately. Many school children have not been paid in terms of BEAM access to school and a lot of those that are supposed to be catered for including people with disabilities and elderly people need to be catered for by this particular Ministry. My plea is to increase this Vote so that the Ministry will be able to cater for this disadvantaged society before we get to the budget in November.
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like the Minister to help supplement especially the disabled. The disabled have been left behind from an amenities point of view and the Constitution itself talks about resources permitting for the disabled. I would like the Minister to focus on their challenges which are immediate. They are about a population of 10 – 15% in the country. We do not see schools which are for them and the schools which they go to do not have amenities which they are supposed to have.
The issue of even the jobs, we need to come up with an incentive and if my memory serves me right, it was to say if a company employs the disabled, it would get such incentives and so forth from a tax point of view. It has to be a deliberate affirmative. The position on the disabled must be affirmative because we are way behind in terms of us meeting their obligations. It is a special need and as such, needs a special understanding and funding so that we are able to be up to speed with delays and so forth with the wheelchairs themselves and the gadgets that they need. We saw in terms of vehicles, again there are some who can afford and some cannot but can you also extend loans to them so that they are able to access vehicles because from a transportation point of view, it is difficult for them to jump into public transport and all that.
May we also have public transport which relates to them in terms of who they are and so forth. Every public entity must incorporate the disabled and that will be my plea to the Minister that you need to specifically give them a lot of money so that they are able to be seen as a people of Zimbabwe having equal rights like anybody else.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: In this Vote, I believe there is an area which was left out and it is the issue of drug and substance abuse. We have a lot of people who need psycho-social support and counselling. Some are committing suicide and some need rehabilitation but in this particular Vote, it is not mentioned maybe it is because we are not seeing it but there is a generation which is being diminished because of this. It might be facing extinction in the near future because of drug and substance abuse. In this particular Vote, we need to allocate funds towards the rehabilitation of this particular generation.
HON. NDUNA: I just want to add my voice on Vote Number 3 and I will also suggest in terms of supplementing Vote Number 3 to Section 13(4) of the Constitution that speaks to and about the issues of our endowment in terms of ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth so that some of that money seeing that it is in the community share ownership trust, goes to supplement the social welfare nature.
The second issue is of BEAM. If you look at the way it is structured, it gets up to Grade 7 and after Grade 7, I get the task as the legislator to further the education of those kids who would have been left at Grade 7 level. I have to take them to secondary school and subsequently to tertiary. My prayer is threefold, that the Minister first and foremost interrogates the BEAM committees because they are giving BEAM beneficiary initiatives to those that are not meant to benefit from BEAM. The BEAM committees are now meant to empower the councilors in the local community. You will find the well to do people with children on BEAM because they are sitting on the BEAM committees. You will find the well to do councilors having children going on the BEAM programmes. Inasmuch as I would want the Minister to increase the quantum of BEAM initiative, there is need to interrogate the people that are benefiting from BEAM, especially the parents of the children that are on BEAM committees. Nine out of ten BEAM committee members are the ones that have children that are benefiting from much to chagrin of those that are supposed to be benefiting.
The second issue is that let the BEAM disbursements go beyond Grade 7.
The third issue is that let BEAM disbursements be on time. Disbursements can be on time as long as the coffers of the Minister ballooned or there is proposal as I do, of enlarging the tent of the copious amount of money that you can have. I have said those mining houses within the area of the people that are benefiting from BEAM should also pay towards those coffers in order to compliment and augment the pittance that Vote 3 has got. There should not be any Minister that defends the mining houses when it comes to giving back to the community in the manner that I request that the gold finger allows these mining houses to give back to the communities. I have had people stand up to defend these mining houses. It should not be, it is not right and just. The Minister of Finance should get those monies from Section 13 (4) of the Constitution because it is sui generis and in a class of its own and it is right that these mining houses give back to the community especially that we owe it to posterity.
Already your coffers are constricted and here is an opportunity and I need that it be taken seriously on threefold – the first one is on beneficiaries, secondly we go above Grade 7 and lastly we expedite disbursements. I thank you.
*HON MADZIMURE: My request to the Minister of Finance is that when assessing the need for free education, why does it not start with those who are receiving BEAM support, to be given money with value? For instance, if it is US$30 which is converted to RTGS local currency, which means that inflation and fluctuations of rates should reflect in the RTGS so that the schools are able to survive because we can say that BEAM is useful but the challenge is that they delay paying these monies. When they pay the values would have depreciated.
Secondly, when we look at the challenges that are faced by parents up to “A” level we have a lot of school drop-outs who end up taking drugs because their parents cannot afford to take them to school. The Minister of Finance has a lot of responsibility of taking measures to allocate finances to our children’s education where we are talking of Education 5.0. Children from poor backgrounds cannot afford to experience that. You find such children taking up drugs.
We have a lot of parents who have worked for Zimbabwe for a long time. They are not war veterans and they did not go to big companies but these are the people who built Zimbabwe. You would find that most of these people are tired and old but they receive meagre monies like Z$1500 from the social welfare. Imagine receiving Z$1500 which cannot pay for two tollgates. The money that is being given to pensioners and the vulnerable is not sufficient as its value keeps depreciating. Looking at the USD value of that money, it is even less than US$6. It is important to determine the money in US dollars so that we understand how they are surviving.
Looking at other countries, for an old person to survive they will be talking about money which is given to one who is incapacitated and cannot look after themselves. Here in our country we just given them money that we know is valueless and it cannot cater for their needs. It is important that we disburse funds which are equivalent to a certain figure. For instance if it is US$50, if the rate is adjusted then it is adjusted accordingly. My request is on these two issues on the elderly people and school going children - these should be addressed. This should reflect in our schools being operational and being funded by Government.
(v)HON. WATSON: Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Can the Hon. Minister explain how the Minister of Public Service is going to use ZW$9 million and what is the value of the increase in their budget? If it is simply not disbursed, it is only a figure and it will not help the welfare of Zimbabweans. Can the Minister please not consider instituting and also putting into the Ministry and budget the provisions and the grants to the elderly who have no pensions and also the grants in aid to institutions that house elderly persons have not been paid in years. Could he please look into that? Thank you.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Chair. My question has been tackled by Hon. Watson but I would like to add that there are groups where they look after mentally challenged people of any age including adults. Can the Hon. Minister look into the Government allocation to those homes that are looking after those people because three months ago, each person was getting ZW$1 500 per month as support and it is not enough. Could the Minister as a matter of urgency look into that? I thank you.
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to speak on the issue of teachers’ children. Can we budget for teacher-student ratio? Payment of school fees for teachers’ children - what has happened and how far have you gone? Can that issue be brought out in this House? May the money be sent into their accounts instead of paying to the schools? It is prudent that you send money which is equivalent for three children to all teachers. I thank you.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you very much for giving me an opportunity Hon. Chairman. The issue I want to bring forward in this House is an issue that transpired today. The issue happened today on my way to Parliament. Workers who made sure that we attain our independence in this country were coming from Malawi and even those from within this country, their husbands had their backs broken and they passed on. Today at the Post Office, it was just like they are tanked cattle. It was an eyesore seeing people crowded at the bank. All those elderly we are seeing are getting USD5 per month. Are we serious that someone is getting USD5 per month? Cooking oil on its own is USD6 without sugar. Some of them stay in the rural areas and they get on an omnibus to get USD5.
They are waiting for the money to accumulate for three months so that they get USD15. Let us look at ourselves how much we have gone with killing ourselves. If we kill this foundation, that of people we are giving birth, what will happen to them and who will look after them and guide them? It is those in Parliament who would have failed to implement and see to it that there is normalcy.
It is my plea that if possible, let there be a review for our pensioners. Let us do this in good faith. All the pensioners in this country – I also worked at National Railways of Zimbabwe, you cannot even get in a bank and get that money – what will I use it for? Even us tomorrow, we will be pensioners and then we get USD5 or USD15. It means that we were doing nothing by coming here to the Parliament of Zimbabwe. The little that we get, we try to use it to persuade the electorate to vote for us. There is no business for you and in 2023, you lose out and there is nothing for you. What then will happen to you?
Through you Mr. Chairman, to the Minister, it is my humble plea that we look at this issue with the urgency and seriousness it deserves as legislators. It is our anticipation that the situation would change when we are pensioners. Right now as we speak, we have ZWS and USD. Let it be worked out to say how much are we supposed to get and at what pensionable age.
I saw an elderly woman crying. This affects everyone across the board. War veterans are crying and everyone is affected. Let us consider this situation and give people money that has value and money that can assist them in their lives. Thank you.
+HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: Thank you Hon. Chairman for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the issue. The money that is being given to our pensioners is very little. Most of them lost a lot of money due to inflation and the money ended up being useless. Even the money for insurance ended up without any value and the money that they had set aside for their residential areas ended up losing its value. My plea is that they get rebates and other incentives, the exemption on tollgates and also have incentives for water, rates and electricity may be the Government can assist. These are our parents. We are also going to grow old and no one will remain in his youthful age. It is so painful that when you are old and weak, you will be treated in such a manner.
Even if we say we want to give any of us ZW$1 500, what could we buy out of it? Let us try to give them at least ZW$43 000 which is equivalent to USD. As for NSSA, it is one of the organisations that are not performing effectively. If you are giving people ZW$16 000, and these are people who worked for long and you are earning ZW$43 000, what is it? Thank you Hon. Chairman.
+HON. PHULU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I would like to add my voice to Vote Number 3 talking of the old aged people. Looking at this Vote, the additional 20 000, comparing with others, I see that this Vote, if we could increase it from 20 000 to 60 000. The Vote for elderly persons cannot be that low.
On children, as we know, children have many categories. We have children living on the streets, we have disabled children and also those on BEAM, which has up to millions of children. There is need to specify the allocations. Going back to the elderly persons, they have been disowned for quite a long time. I want to emphasise on what Hon. Mayihlome said that the elderly persons are owed a lot due to the money that is being allocated to the aged people. We are not supposed to debate as if we are in the House but I am appealing that these figures be revised, especially on the money that is being given to the elderly persons.
Looking at the exemptions that have been mentioned by Hon. Mayihlome, why is it difficult that an aged person passing a tollgate be given an exemption? A certain age should be set aside that anyone who has reached this age be given an exemption to pass through the tollgate for free. Most countries recognise their elderly person. We want that to be addressed so that we can also be respected when we are aged. I thank you.
Hon. Musarurwa having debated a wrong Vote.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Member,
we have not yet reached that Vote.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you very much Mr.Chairman. I want to add my voice to what was said by Hon. Mayihlome. I agree with him, especially on the welfare of the elderly persons. Hon. Minister, we are appealing that even though this is not directed to you, we have got a problem, especially when the elderly persons want to change ownership of their houses, especially when the other spouse has passed on. The elderly person will be earning 16 000 RTGs versus the US$800, which will be required by the local authorities for the change of ownership. We would want that if someone is now old, they should be exempted from such processes like change of ownership or may be the fare could be reduced or they should deduct from the money they get from NSSA. Most of them fail to change ownership and the house will remain in the name of the deceased spouse because they cannot afford the fees.
On the issue of BEAM, I want that after we approve the budget, we want the money to be released and paid to the schools right away. Right now, money is being deposited to schools after it would have lost value and they cannot develop the areas they want to develop at their schools. We would want that immediately as we agree on the budget, this money should be released and be allocated to the various schools. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to say that the Minister should look into the issue of hunger. In the rural areas, we have old people and the disabled, they need food in the rural areas. Right now people are dying of hunger. There are promises that food is coming but on the ground, there is nothing. I think you should look into that.
Secondly, you should look into the issue of people living with disability and those who are terminally ill. Social Welfare does not have money. You should resource the Social Welfare. We are now performing the duties of Social Welfare because we are the ones who are taking care of people’s health. You should look into that.
(v) +HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I would also like to add my voice in this Supplementary Budget. Adding on what Hon. Mayihlome said when he talked about pensioners and NSSA; I am one of those people who receive money from NSSA. I had an aunt who passed on and was paid by NSSA. The money from NSSA and the money from pensions is mere nothing. It is around US$5. If we are talking of increasing to 20 000 RTGs, still it does not buy anything, even though it is increased to 30 000 RTGs, it cannot buy anything. We cry as we are widows and many of us want more money so that we can be able to buy something.
From NSSA, this is my fifth month without collecting it because even if I collect it, it is worth nothing. If I go to town to collect it, I would not be able to return home because it will be insufficient. I have to wait for six months so that I can buy something. What if I was someone who is coming from the rural areas, who has to board a bus to collect that little. I urge the Government to increase this money for pension and NSSA so that we can be able to buy food for our children. As Hon. Mayihlome has said that cooking oil is almost US$7 and we will be only earning US$5. If I collect that money for a month, I will just use for transport and not buy anything.
Now our elderly persons have to spend six months so that by the time they go to town, they can be able to buy something but they will only buy cooking oil and nothing else, no sugar nor soap. Government should look into the pensioners and widows; they are very much under paid. Noting that they have really worked for this country but the money they are being given is worthless. This is now called mudyandigere in Shona, but where is the mudyandigere part of it when they have nothing. We are asking that the Government should look into it, especially when we are talking about the supplementary budget. We are asking that the money should be revised so that they can be able to buy only basic foods. I am crying on behalf of other widows who are like me. Fathers and mothers also who are pensioners who are languishing in poverty and hunger in these days, whilst they worked for the development of this country? I thank you.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: Thank you Chair, I will only add one item that pertains to the elderly people where they are spending three months without going to collect their money. They only earn $17 000. I urge the Hon. Minister to consider adding only US$50 so that they can have the same salary as that given to the kraal heads. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you for according me this opportunity. My only issue is that we are crying about the pensioners. Pensioners are not getting anything because of the instability of the currency. I think the Minister should consider putting US dollars in pension houses so as to cushion the pensioners until things stabilise and also consider pegging their pensions in US dollars.
HON. I. NYONI: Thank Hon. Chair. On Vote No 3, on Social Welfare in the supplementary budget, I note that the disbursements on social welfare were nine billion up to June 2022 yet the allocation was 19 billion. This shows that slightly less than half was disbursed. Perhaps the Hon. Minister should look at the issue of disbursement so that the social welfare is well oiled all the time. The other issues have been raised by other Members of Parliament but I want to add that we know that elderly citizens are covered by various forms of pensions. Those who have been gainfully employed are covered by institutions such as NSSA and Old Mutual but we have those that have the senior citizens that have never been employed but are also in need of this social welfare. It is important that senior citizens over 65 years be covered by some form of pension. We know in other countries there is some form of payment for all citizens who are over 65 years.
Lastly, my recommendation – I know that the Minister did increase the proposed allocation to a substantial amount but could it be slightly increased by another two or three billion. I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Chair, I thank the Hon. Members for those robust contributions. Let me start with the contribution by Hon. Mushoriwa who wondered what the item on hiring services is and why it is so high in terms of the budget allocation under Vote 3. This item pertains to hiring conference facilities, transportation facilities cars and whatever else needs to be used on a temporary basis which belongs to someone else and has been procured on that basis. The pricing of these services – you have seen our reaction as Government has been inflated overall and that is what we can say across ministries. That is why we have introduced this value for money process where we want to make sure that we are getting value for money from these services that are being offered and we will be much stricter as we go forward. We had to budget for the status quo which was certain prices which were around and we had to budget accordingly. However, going forward, we will be tougher in managing this kind of budget line in terms of hiring services.
There is also a question about whether we would increase civil servants salaries and his proposal was looking at increasing the US dollar component more than the Zim-dollar component. It is a proposal and we take that on board as a proposal when we get to that moment of decision making. Another Member raised the issue of increasing the programme on social welfare aspects but that is what we are doing. If you look at what we have done in the budget, we have increased the social welfare aspect. If you look at that aspect it is 30.3 billion out of the full 34 billion. It has been quite a large increase in my view. Then there is the issue of targeting the disabled raised by Hon. Mliswa, which is a very good point supporting the disabled at the workplace for them to get jobs and so forth; actually we already have the programme. I announced it in November that we will extend the tax rebate that would be introduced for use at the workplace to the disabled. Now if your company employs a disabled individual for at least one year without necessarily firing someone else but increasing employment in the process, they get a rebate equal to the salary of that disabled person. We believe we should just monitor whether this programme is effective or not. If we need to enhance it, we will do so but we are taking some action here already.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Minister, there is a vehicle, Mitsubishi truck, grey in colour without number plates, it is blocking other vehicles.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: There are a few Members who mentioned the issue of drug abuse – if you check in the Blue book on page 25 under Vote 3, under the notes, there is a two budget line under Social Welfare Programme 3 that pertains to children in the street and then children in difficult circumstances. The drug abuse support programme sits within those programmes. There is no specific line because it depends on how it is handled. But also, there is support through the Ministry of Health because some of the drug abuse issues result in mental health challenges, so that Ministry also chips in. You find that our budget for drug abuse support is split across various institutions or indeed the two ministries as well. The Ministry of Social Welfare has created a unit within the Ministry to deal with drug abuse cases and that is being supported – just wanted to make that clear.
On interrogating the BEAM committees, yes I will pass on that message to the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare who administer the programme to say this needs further interrogation so that they do their job.
The BEAM programme should go beyond Grade 7 – this is already the case.
Expediting the disbursements – I agree and this came from Hon. Nduna.
Hon. Madzimure basically mentioned that come 2023 Budget, we should make sure that we are clear on how much is being allocated per child within the BEAM programme and be more granular – I agree with him, we will do that. He also mentioned support for the youth who are afflicted with drug addiction problem, we have again allocated a budget and there are items that support that challenge.
On the grant for the elderly, Hon. Watson – payment to the institutions; that has had no payments for the last few years. I will certainly investigate that and work with the Ministry of Social Welfare in that investigation so that we can allocate resources towards that. I think the same issue was raised by Hon. Markham.
A colleague raised an issue around the incentive for teachers in terms of school fees for up to three children per teacher – may be to consider extending the grant to teachers without children; for now we had to deal with the challenge which was school fees, that is why we are focussing on teachers with school children. It is a proposal that we can consider in future but for now, we want to ensure that the children go to school.
Hon. Matangira raised the issue of pension payments at US$5 – I do not know about this. At the moment, Government is paying US$50 hard cash and not US$5. In addition to that, the pensioner is getting the ZWL component as well. Perhaps this is NSSA payment but even then, NSSA has been indexing their payments. This is something that needs to be investigated but I am not so sure about these low figures coming out. I will engage him one-on-one so that I understand the issue but also engage the Minister of Social Welfare just in case it is a NSSA issue. I thought the payments were above the US$5 that he mentioned.
Hon. Rtd. Mayihlome on benefits for pensioners including not paying anything on tollgates – that is a proposal that is being made that we could consider going forward. I think that is good.
Increase in the amount for elderly support – we have it in the supplementary budget and we have made an additional ZWL20 million – we have increased that portion. Should we want to take it further, we could be able to virement within that social welfare budget and move things around but that is detail now in terms of the actual budget implementation but the envelop is the ZWL30.3 billion.
Hon. Mahlangu also mentioned the issue around the elderly in terms of the transfer fees being paid by widows when they transfer properties into their own names after the death of a spouse. Again, this is a proposal that should be looked into. We will go back to the drawing board and consider that with my team in Treasury but it is not a budget issue as such. It is something that we should consider in the Finance Bill to give an exemption of the sort. It is a good proposal. Quick disbursement of funds to schools, the BEAM programme, I agree with you; we will certainly endeavour to do that.
Hon. Nyabani, on the food deficit mitigation programme, the programme has always been there and there has been a response in terms of the cry for help. There has been ad hoc disbursement but starting in October, we will get into full throttle with that programme. From October to March, we have strategic grain reserves already – almost 500 000 metric tonnes. What I am sensing from Hon. Nyabani is that there is an urgent need now and therefore what I would like to do is to advise him to contact the Minister of Social Welfare so that his district can be assisted immediately. There is a disbursement already available – please come forward and we get this sorted out.
On the issue of medical support which he also raised, there is a medical support for the elderly – there are structures that do that. Again, I would like to understand though it is a programme implemented by the Ministry of Social Welfare; I do not know whether it is a straight budget issue or rather an execution issue. I think that needs to be investigated but there are structures that support the elderly when it comes to medical support.
For what it is worth Hon. Chair, if I can address Hon. Nyabani directly as well – if we get the recent 2022 national census, there is a whole section that you may find interesting that pertains to an issue called functioning where we go into detail about the number of disabled people district by district. We have got the figures now and with his help on the ground, I am sure we can further fine-tune and get to know who are the elderly, disabled or who have what type of disability and therefore need support. We have very granular data now coming out of the census and I am happy to share that data.
Then from Hon. Stella Ndlovu on the NSSA payments, these are NSSA payments and not payments coming out of Treasury directly but Treasury has a role to advice on the right level for NSSA payments. I have taken this on board and will engage the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare that perhaps they should increase these NSSA payments to make sure that our pensioners are well looked after.
Again, I think, she also raised the issue of care for the destitute, especially in rural areas. There are structures through the Social Welfare District offices, I would like to understand that maybe it is an issue of execution but if it is an issue of budget, then we can also look into that.
Then Hon. Tekeshe basically urged pension houses to increase payments and also pay in USD. Well, I cannot really instruct them as such but I have listened. Let me engage them through IPEC which is the body that I control because there is the option of paying in both currencies; that is, ZWL and USD but it is a proposal which I think has merit. We will engage through IPEC.
Then from Hon. Nyoni, the issue of the disbursements sitting at ZWL9 billion for the ministry that is up to June compared to the full budget of ZWL19.5 billion. It is at ZWL9 billion and on target, we are halfway through the year. So that budget is on target. We should have disbursed basically about 50% and we are close to that. So it is not way behind compared to other MDAs that are as low as 30%, so this is not too bad.
Then there is the issue of pension payments of all citizens over 65 years old, again this is a proposal. We are rethinking of a more comprehensive social welfare programme for everyone, this is a proposal that again we will take forward and consider going forward and see if it is something that we could implement. Of course, we will then have to balance that with the current welfare programmes in terms of social welfare. What is in place? Could it be enhanced or improved? This is a proposal that we will take forward. I thank you.
HON. PHULU: Mr. Chair, I would like to direct the Hon. Minister to Page 25. I had proposed that the additional amount for the elderly be increased to ZWL20 000.00, you commented on that very quickly. My worry is if you look at the pauper burial, initially it was at ZWL80 million, and the support for the elderly was at ZWL76 million but if you look now, we have given the pauper burial an additional ZWL100 million and ZWL20 million to the elderly. We have valued corpses more than the living. I do not know whether it is an error or an oversight? So I am asking for your comment on that Hon. Minister.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Chairman. Mine is not a question but I think just a correction for the Hon. Minister to note that the Hansard is the minute book of Parliament. I worry that if names are not mentioned on who said what, then we will have problems.
Number one is, I spoke on the disadvantaged and persons with disabilities and BEAM. You said, another member, my name is Paurina Mpariwa. The one who spoke on drug abuse by youths was Hon. Chidziva. I thought that should be minuted so that it reads well. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Chair, I have two issues of clarity. One Hon. Minister said that BEAM is now going higher than Grade 7 (Seven), I want you to clarify on that one. I know the war veterans’ children are getting payment for their fees at tertiary institutions but for BEAM children, I have to foot the bill after Grade 7 so that we know if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.
Secondly, I need to know your attitude towards the proposal I put where mining houses should seed some finance of some sort in particular as they are directed by Section 13 (iv) of the Constitution. Where the minerals extracted in the areas of their jurisdiction should benefit the locality and such monies whether from Community Share Ownership Trust or directly from mining houses should be directed by the gold-finger who is you, Hon. Minister; in order to seed that money. It ameliorates so that it becomes an antidote on this issue that we are talking about, compliments and augments the pittance resources that you have in order that the children, in particular, those who need to be complemented their education aptitude, in particular, the BEAM initiative. I need to hear your attitude…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, be brief please, you said you were going to be brief.
HON. NDUNA: Yes, I need to hear your attitude towards that.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you very much. The Hon. Member is correct, was it Hon. Phulu? That for the elderly, we have increased that budget from ZWL75 million, by ZWL20 million, it is now ZWL95 million. Then the Pauper Burials, we have increased their budget from ZWL50 million, added another ZWL100 million and it is now ZWL150 million – that is what is in here.
My response which I am going repeat is that, I certainly will consider maybe virementing between those two budgets. It will not change the envelope that we are proposing in terms of the budget for this ministry that will not change the envelope. It is a matter of just moving money between sub-programmes three under Social Welfare. So we have taken note of that, we will fine tune on what is on Page 25 of the Blue Book. I thank you.
Then there is Hon. Mpariwa, you are right, I know you. I did not mention your name. Yes, it has been corrected.
Then Hon. Nduna on the BEAM programme. Yes, the BEAM programme goes beyond Grade 7. I think we can take it offline and see whether the cases that you have can be assisted through that BEAM programme.
I agree with you on the mining companies, it is part of corporate social responsibility that mining companies ought to support the communities where they are extracting resources, better still if they support those communities through Community Trusts, building schools and giving out scholarships, supporting the elderly and so forth. Some mining companies are doing that, and some are not and I agree with him that if all of them could do this, it would be a good thing. After all, it will increase their brownie points on the CSR programme considerations. I thank you.
Vote 3 put and agreed to.
On Vote 4 – Defence and War Veterans - $71 515 581.00:
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. We know that a head count of war veterans is in progress. Should the numbers be surpassing the targeted number in terms of the budget? the Minister should expect in terms of the demands; we know that it is a minimum number but because the welfare of the war veterans has not been catered for some time, just have some kind of a dancing floor in terms of the increase in the 71 that you have allocated.
I propose that he put it at 80 so that at least when the head count is complete, the pay-outs will not strain the Ministry in terms of the pay-outs I thank you.
*HON. HWENDE: If we look at the issue of housing for soldiers, I noticed that you have put the value of the houses which are being built in Dzivarasekwa but there is no money for the other projects so that our soldiers will get decent housing because their money is not enough. However, if they get decent accommodation, looking at the money that we have put forward, it is not enough to finish a project because it has been there for a long time.
We also have the issue of Manyame, the hospital that we were talking about yesterday. The money that the Hon. Minister has set aside, I do not think it will be enough to complete that project or to furnish it with specialized equipment that is needed there.
If we have a well equipped hospital, our leaders will not go outside to seek medication. The reason why people run away and seek treatment outside the country is because of people who put it on social media when our leaders go to these private hospitals.
The provisions in the barracks when it comes to food, I think you should increase the money because there is hunger. If you go through the committee reports, you will find that the provisions there are not enough. The issue of security affects everyone in the nation, so the soldiers should be well taken care of.
Most of the things in that Vote are okay but I also want to support the issue of war veterans, ex-detainees even the war collaborators, their welfare should be looked into because the money that we are giving people is not enough. If you see a war veteran taking home USD30 to 35, you would find that most of them are incapacitated. So I think you should look at their welfare so that they live well during their retirement time.
+HON. S. K. MGUNI: I wanted to find out whether the Minister considered those who were recently vetted? What of the widows of our veterans? Thirdly, the empowerment programmes should consider war veterans and this should be considered throughout the ministries. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Chair, this is a very important Vote because this is the last line of defence and any country that aspires to be prosperous must have peace. We have enjoyed a lot of peace and that becomes an assurance for an investor. However, what I want to also look at is that there are a lot of companies, I do not know if the Minister is aware that the Zimbabwe War Veterans have got companies, they have been given a 1 000 ha of land in each province to augment that budget. The problem here is; how much is being generated from the resources that are given to the military? It is important because the war veterans are supposed to be benefiting from that as well and we talk about the canteens in the barracks as well. The soldiers must be benefiting from them, from the resources which they get from all these entities.
Therefore, it becomes very difficult without us knowing how much money is made so that we support them and that cannot be at all being escaped. Rusununguko is a company with shareholders and it is to benefit the army – how much is it making? Not only that, they even have the farms, the cattle, the agricultural activities which they are embarking on. Why are they not keeping cattle for their soldier at the end of the day?
Without an asset register and accountability of how much money is there, it becomes very difficult. That is why I had asked the Minister of Defence that Rusununguko must have financial accounts and their lack of submitting accounts makes it very difficult because how did you keep on giving an entity which is not accountable at the end of the day?
The military is one of the most disciplined institutions and it required certain people to be able, especially the chief accounting officer or the Permanent Secretary, to get stock from them. Whenever you want anything from the military you get it. So, I would not think it is really the Commanders and the Generals but the people presiding over these ministries. It is important for us to understand what they are doing with the resources given to war veterans to be able to generate an income.
The other issue is on health which has been mentioned that there are facilities which need to be done up. They have gone into joint ventures with a lot of companies, especially the Chinese companies who are good at building. You see what they have done to the airport and the Parliament. Hate or like the Chinese, but they are much disciplined when it comes to work and construction. They have a good relationship. During the struggle, we were helped by the Chinese. The military too must also enter into joint ventures.
What is happening in terms of the PPPs because that is another way of making money and people are very safe with the army and so forth? The other issue which is very important is the schools and accommodation. There are children and which schools are they going to because the issue we have in terms of adding a lot of money is towards the welfare of their families. If you are getting RTG$20 000 per month, that will not take you anywhere. There are medical aid aspects, school fees for the children and so forth, so why can Government equally not take over that? It is also important that we deal with reality.
They are owed a lot of money again and you know Chairman, there is a court order which they won. It has taken long and some were arrested but I will not talk about that as it is before the courts. They were matching to ensure that they get their monies from a court order. What is happening to also deal with that deficit because we have a tendency of moving forward before we move with that deficit and so forth? It will be interesting for the Minister to also incorporate in his budget to clear the past. Legacy issues, whether they are with you or not with you, let us deal with legacy issues because they do not take us anywhere. The welfare of the people is hinged on legacy issues more than anything else.
Finally, the military itself was well-known for sport. They have sporting facilities there. You need to put a budget to rehabilitate them because recreation is important for them. It keeps them fit. The gyms, if you look at it have become scientific because you cannot have a military which is weak without training. We need to incorporate that and of course a diet is critical to complement what they need. I see that some of them, like you have done it with the nurses, I do not know if it has been extended to the junior officers in the military in terms of duty free cars. Are they entitled to that as well? – [HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Yes.] – I think it is important that you do that. Other than that, I think we really need to be quite serious about supporting them in every way because that is our last line of defence. They must never be hungry or short of anything and a lot needs to be done. As ZDA Company, what is it doing and where are they getting the uniforms done?
Lastly, those helicopters are a hazard and they need to be given money for new helicopters. Those helicopters have been creating a lot of problems and are no longer up to standard. There are too many helicopter accidents which have happened due to them being old and we cannot continue losing great pilots and so forth. It is important that they are resourced because the good thing about their helicopters is that they also serve the President and the Government ministers getting from point A to B. When we had Cyclone Idai, we had to get helicopters from South Africa yet we must have good stable helicopters so that they are able to assist the Government in many programmes.
There is no country which cannot afford to have a private jet for national security reasons. It must be under the military where the President uses it and if he is not using it, it is leased out to people who want to be using it and we still make money because hiring jets is a security threat. The number one citizen of the country, whether we like it or not, must be safe. It is never for the President and he will never go with it if his term finishes but it will remain the property of the Government and revenue can be generated from that as well.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I would like to add my voice on this Vote. The challenge that we are facing is that when there is peace, people take it for granted that there will not be any eventuality. The Ministry of Defence should be vigilant. For example, we know that in Zambia, there is an American base and we do not know why. Zimbabwe is facing sanctions because of the land reform. This has been a threat for a long time especially looking at the so-called targeted sanctions which are not just affecting individuals but are affecting the general populace. So, the Defence Ministry should be funded in terms of helicopters, jets, weapons and other resources.
The Ministry of Defence should be given billions of dollars. The billions that are being mentioned are RTGs. For example, you mentioned $300 billion which was allocated to war veterans but since January, the beneficiaries of war veterans did not receive school fees. You find war veterans dying all over the country but no one is burying or funding them but we just talk saying they have been given $300 billion while they are not benefiting from these monies that are being talked of.
Right now, war veterans are despised and have been made cheap. You find that war veterans have been broadened in terms of the different categories but they need to benefit from these monies that are being talked of. For example, school fees which are pegged at three quarters in USD and a quarter in RTGs for some schools. This has been given a go-ahead by the Government but war veterans are getting $25 and sometimes $50, where do they get US$300 for school fees? Government should pay for children of war veterans as was agreed on in the Act of Parliament. Government should pay for their fees. So, the issue of war veterans being a laughing stock is an issue which is quite critical.
Hon. Minister of Finance, if you had experienced the pain of leaving in the bush, you will discover that it was not easy. Let us not just talk about giving war veterans without actually anything tangible on the ground. There is need to give war veterans money with value. Our job as war veterans is to defend our country. When a country goes to war, you would discover that there is no need for training new soldiers because we are here to defend our country. War veterans should be given money because Z$300 billion is not a lot of money. If it were US$300 billion, then we would appreciate but this is local currency.
People talk of the black market and if you give war veterans whatever amount, they go to the black market because the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe’s auction system does not allow individuals to bid foreign currency. War veterans do not have companies. The companies that we mentioned are not in existence. My point is that the Ministry of Defence should be funded so that they restock their weaponry and ammunitions. There should be food security within that sector. War veterans, including those who were recently vetted are not happy because they are seeing what is happening.
I have mentioned things that are not in your Budget but my request is that Z$300 billion should be topped up so that war veterans can pay school fees and other responsibilities. I am happy that I have spoken facing the Minister of Finance. Please may you look at the welfare of war veterans so that they receive a substantial allocation which will cater for their needs? Some war veterans still have nightmares thinking of what happened during the war. My request is that war veterans should benefit and receive a substantial allocation.
HON. NDUNA: I just want to add my voice in terms of the budget for war veterans. I am alive to the fact that there is a Rhodes legacy which was left in mineral wealth in claims in South Africa. He also left the Victoria Falls Hotel which is co-managed by the NRZ and the Zambian Railways, including but not limited to the Victoria Falls Bridge where our rail crosses to Zambia. These are infrastructure development issues that were left by that Rhodes legacy and it is my thinking that there is need to put in the forefront of the interrogation of these claims that run into US$ billion that reside in South Africa.
I saw the Minister of Transport with his counterparts from Zambia and South Africa trying to sanitise this issue. If you also include the war veterans inside that board, there is going to be expeditious movement and interrogation of those claims and minerals in order that we can have those minerals come and augment the pittance of resources that you have for the budget for the war veterans.
The face of poverty resides in the faces of war veterans, war collaborators, restrictees, detainees and those that went to war in order to give us the freedom and democracy that we now call Zimbabwe. It is my thinking together in the mould of those that fought in World War I and II. The war veterans of the World War II enjoy benefits from that war. Our soldiers were in World War II and they are in London as we speak but it is the difference of the skin and it is my thinking therefore that the same war veterans that reside in Zimbabwe, the formerly marginalised majority who brought this country through the submission of the neo colonialists and colonialist should also enjoy the benefit.
I am a former soldier and when I went into the army, we had perks that we would enjoy that were part of the conditions of service. As I have said, the face of poverty resides in soldiers, war veterans, war collaborators and such alike. I propose that the land in the environs of all camps should have houses established for those war veterans and soldiers that are retirees because most retired soldiers are former war veterans and they are in the streets without houses. They do not have a decent pension where they can buy for themselves houses and vehicles. There is copious amount of land and the land around camps is of a security nature. It if my thinking that if you go around the airport and Manyame Air Base, that land should have infrastructure development like housing so that you can give to the soldiers and the war veterans non-monetary benefits. If you try to chase inflation and try and give them US dollars or RTGS, it would not work. At some point, you will need to get value stored in non-monetary things, in particular housing. If a white man dies today, there is sure enough reason to leave a house to their descendants but if a black man dies, in particular a former soldier or war veteran, there is nothing to leave to their descendants. We owe it to posterity. It is my thinking that for them to leave a legacy and infrastructure or housing, there is need for them to be capacitated immediately and there is land for that.
The last issue that I want to talk about has also been spoken to and about. Delta Airlines is an American airline which doubles up in terms of escorting or taking care of the Executive. There is need to have an airline which resides in the military that also takes care of our Executive. It is just and right. It should not be an issue of “kuyeuka bako mvura yanaya.” There are a lot of issues of security nature that reside around the President and his entourage. It is my thinking that let us look at it holistically and it is possible. There were Dakotas at the time and other related aircrafts. It is my thinking that let us resuscitate that through means that are within the confines of Government in order that we have an executive airline that resides in the military. Thank you very much Hon. Chair.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Chair, I just want to say the general debate was done and we are now dealing with pertinent issues as far as the vote allocations are concerned – [HON. NDUNA: Are you trying to assassinate me?] – I am not assassinating anyone – [HON. NDUNA: Inaudible interjection.] – You are not the only person who has debated here. Why are you jittery? Did I mention your name?
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, proceed.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Hon. Chair. Looking at the amounts allocated to the war veterans, I think the Minister had an oversight because when we debated the vote last year, the number of war veterans that we had was not even more than 30.000. What we now have, because of the new policy that we adopted, we increased the number of war veterans. I think they must be now over a 100.000 war veterans. If you look at what we had allocated then which was around $1.7 billion and we have added almost a 100% to that, we are not looking at the numbers that we increased in terms of the war veterans themselves. This makes the adjustment to mean virtually nothing. Hon. Chair, the moment we promise someone as a Government that we are going to give you a pay-out as a war veteran, they also expect to live slightly better than how they used to live before you allocated anything to them. They all were rushing around going to these centres, being vetted and the like. If you look at what we are allocating today and you divide it by the number of war veterans and also the real value of that money, there is nothing. Can the Hon. Minister seriously consider making sense on that particular allocation? As far as I am concerned, what we are going to pass today, if we pass it in the current form as it is, we will not have done any justice to the war veterans and will not be meaning what we meant when we decided that people go back, be vetted and be included as war veterans.
Hon. Chair, whilst I do not have any problems with more people being added, the real war veterans who were combatants during the war, we have not done anything to them in terms of honouring them by making them comfortable. So, we have given ourselves another burden but we have failed to comfortably look after our combatants themselves. Can the Minister change his figures as far as this vote is concerned?
Hon. Chair, the welfare of the current war veterans and their children will also include those who were added. It is the Government’s obligation and the Government accepted this obligation to pay their children’s school fees. As Hon. Chinotimba said, if you go to a school today, they will tell you that $400 must be in US dollars. All the war veterans, the US dollars that they get on a monthly basis is $50. Therefore, a war veteran needs almost eight months for him to put together $400 fees for one child. Again, what does this mean when we put before this House a supplementary budget of this value? It does not work. Can the Minister consider making changes to that vote on the basis that we promised to pay the war veterans?
HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I also want to add my voice on this. Firstly, before I go into debate, I do not know whether the Hon. Chair can also help us. I want to concur with Hon. Madzimure that we are now going into debate as if we are starting to formulate a budget. We are not starting all over again. We are only debating a supplementary budget on a budget which is already there. I think let us deal with the votes.
In my view, on this current vote, looking at the size of what you have given to the war veterans and the army, I would urge the Hon. Minister to increase that budget if ever that is possible from his back pocket. He increases that budget to cater for things that I will list here:
Firstly, the challenges that we have with our soldiers today, are issues like food, their rations, the prices they face and so forth. Why can we not have garrisons in every camp so that they have got their own special revolving sources of basic commodities? Then we go to the issue of war veterans as my colleagues have already said. I think we also need to know, has the Minister factored in the issue of the USD component of the income they are getting as a pension in the budget that he has supplemented. Then we have the category of the other war veterans or veterans of the liberation struggle. The Minister has provided funds for them to be vetted but in your supplementary budget, there is no mention of them and the expectations are very high as to what is going to happen to these people. Are they forgotten or it is there hidden in your figures, so you are going to look after them? Thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Chair. This Vote is actually important. I know the Hon. Minister had responded that when you talk of hiring, it is to hire things on a temporary basis, but I want to put it to the Hon. Minister that if you look at the Vote, on $6 billion, you see the outturn up to June, it tells you something is amiss. You cannot have your army depending mostly on hired vehicles or other equipment. I believe it is imperative that they are well funded.
Mr. Chairman, I have got a camp in my constituency, Dzivarasekwa Presidential Guard. The things that we have noted and which put the name of our men and women into disrepute are the following; you meet youngsters who are our soldiers putting on these shoes that can actually show you that they have been in use maybe for more than a year or so and if you check, even if you go to the Mess Hall where they are supposed to drink at the barracks and refresh, things are actually so bad. If you then also check, another aspect is the appearance of our army barracks. You look at the Dzivarasekwa Presidential Guard, it is now dilapidated. I am not so sure because I am looking into the Vote here and I am just wondering whether it is covered under the procurement and services or other goods and services not classified above, but even if you look at the figures Mr. Chairman, they do not speak to the need that is there.
What you do not want to happen in a country is, you do not want to see your men in uniform moving out of the camp, let us say from the Mess coming to civilian night clubs. They come there more often than not. They may not be well resourced than the civilians and it creates a problem because some of them end up getting into physical fights and it just does not put the name of a soldier in good light. So I am just asking the Hon. Minister, maybe he will advise us whether the provisions are there towards the uniforms of our soldiers, the rehabilitation of where they stay, the question of their Mess and refreshments and the other stuff, but if it is not included there. maybe there is actually a real need to possibly seek an increase in this because it is very crucial. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I thank the Hon. Members for their contributions on this Vote in terms of input. Let me start with the supplementary Vote allocation itself. Hon. Chair, the initial allocation was ZWL61.6 billion and we are proposing to add more than that, ZWL71.5 billion. So we are recognising that there is need to increase the budget for the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans and we have responded. So the total budget has moved from ZWL61.6 billion to ZWL 133.1 billion.
That is quite an increase indeed, but let me go to various contributions. Let me start with the contribution from Hon. Hwende who basically made the point that we need to invest more in other institutional accommodation and not just Dzivarasekwa. I just wanted to let him know that we are doing exactly that. We are not just focusing on Dzivarasekwa but we are focusing on various accommodation right across the country. For example, at Manyame Air Base, we are just not dealing with the hospital. Also, there is accommodation around that barrack which we have been upgrading. If we look at the barracks at William Ndangana in Mutare in Manicaland, that is also being dealt with, it is being upgraded. We have now put together plans to upgrade the Amaganyana Barrack in Plumtree as well and then also the Air Force houses in Gweru are also being looked into. So we are impacting right across the board, various institutional accommodation for the Defence Forces and not just at Dzivarasekwa.
He is right that we need probably to make sure that we acquire a state of the art equipment for Manyame Hospital because we want this to be a high end hospital and agree with him that we will be doing so, but this cannot just be taken care of through the supplementary budget. These are also multi-year projects, so both the supplementary budget plus the 2023 budget would include this kind of support. In fact, overally, there is a split between the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans and the Ministry of Health and Child Care who look after our hospitals.
The issue of rations is correct. That is something we will target through the supplementary budget, but also on the highlight that as the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans questioned the other day and I worked with her on this, we have introduced the military salary concept which goes into detail in terms of various allowances for the members of the Defence Forces.
Then Hon. Mguni on the issue of the additional budget for those who have been vetted in terms of war veterans who have been vetted, well you know the pension for war veterans is not just sitting in the Ministry responsible for war veterans. If you check under the statutory obligations within the Votes, right at the end, that is where those pensions actually sit. So they are all not within the war veterans’ line that you see here. There is an extra budget elsewhere under that section. So there is a lot more on that.
I also want to highlight something. If you look at the pay-outs to war veterans, they are linked to serving members within the army. It is about 75% of the salary of a warrant officer grade 2. That is what a war veteran earns and then on top of that, they receive the US$50 in addition to that Zimbabwean Dollar component. I just wanted to clarify that the salary moves up as that of serving warrant officers move up. They are actually linked 75% in that way.
Then in terms of empowerment for war veterans, some Members mentioned that, I think it was Hon. Mguni. We have done exactly that. In June last year, we launched the War Veterans Investment Company which has got mining claims under 21 mining claims for various minerals, six farms. There is also a real estate company that was created, a financial services company that is already being launched in partnership with POSB, a tourism company that will also exploit opportunities within the tourism sector and we are basically saying that the war veterans perhaps should try to work those farms through the CBZ Agro-yield Commercial Programme with AFC or whichever bank wants to support them. We have created or are in the process of creating an income strip which is based on the empowerment principle for war veterans. They have a board that was created and one of their assets is from the gold mining company which will be giving them a second dividend in the next month or two.
From Hon. T. Mliswa; the issue of the war veterans company that you have raised again; that is exactly what I have just addressed that we have given them the assets in mining, agriculture, tourism, real estate, financial services and there is a whole group of companies that is run by a board. I do not have any accounts from the Nkululeko/Rusunungoko companies within the defence forces. I will make a request to see those. I have no idea as to how much they are making and how profitable it is. He is right on the facilities that perhaps there is need to do joint ventures with Chinese investors to develop more health facilities for our defence forces and war veterans, we will certainly pursue that. He said that they need further support in education facilities, we will look into that. We will deal with legacy issues, upgrading sports facilities for the military, I agree with it.
On the issue of duty free cars for those serving under the military, actually they are the second highest beneficiary on that duty free programme. The first is secondary and primary teachers, second is the military personnel and third is the police and then the rest of the civil service follow; they are beneficiaries. ZDI, I do not know if they have accounts for ZDI. He mentioned the issue of equipment, helicopters and also perform civilian duties from the Air Force, we have really been supporting this and we have spent quite a bit of resource being extended to the Air Force to revamp their equipment. Some of you even show somehow jets that did fly past at the Trade Fair and they have not been flown for 20 years and suddenly they are up in the air, all those are resources that we have extended to the Air Force.
We have done quite a bit and we continue to do more. The need for basically an aircraft that is for use by the Executive that is housed under the military - that is a proposal that certainly we will look into. From Hon. Chinotimba, he talked about the equipment for defence forces., As I said, we have done quite a bit especially the Air Force but we will do more for the other wings such as the army and so forth. Of course, we are resource constrained and most of this equipment requires hard US dollars; we will lend as much support as possible.
On the budget for the war veterans, as I said, the pensions budget is sitting elsewhere and not under this Ministry but sitting under statutory obligations where we have no choice but to meet those obligations. So we have taken care of that including the additional members of the war veterans group who have been vetted and have now been included in that group.
Hon. Nduna regarding the land that is owned by NRZ in South Africa which also involves Zambia that was bequeathed to us in Zambia that war veterans perhaps should be included in the board. This is a proposal that I will pass on to the Ministry of Transport so that when they constitute the board that will exploit these resources, war veterans are also included. He also went on to talk about housing benefits for war veterans, this again will be considered under non-monetary benefits. It is a very good idea that perhaps we should look into this and we will consider it going forward. He also emphasised the need for transportation for the Executive with aeroplanes that are housed within the military.
Hon. Madzimure talked about including the additional budget for the additional vetted war veterans. We have done that at the risk of repeating. It is sitting under that Statutory Pensions portion. The supplementary is really to cover the next 6 months that is all. Going further, we have another budget for 2023. This is just to cover the first six months but also not all MDAs have actually used their budget, so they still need to use the current budget and then take on the supplementary budget for the next six months. So, I think we have adequate resource envelope to really take care of some of these issues that are being raised.
Hon. Togarepi, he is right that let us not go into further debate on issues around the activities of these ministries for which the Votes are being put before this House but rather let us focus on the allocations. He mentioned that we should increase rations, the issue of garrison shops, and shops. There are garrison shops that have already been established. I urge him to visit the one at Manyame barracks. I have seen it and there is a fully fledged garrison shop and there are several around the country in our cantonments. We just want to make sure that going forward, they have adequate support so that we remove whatever duties and taxes to make sure the soldiers in the military can access affordable basic commodities.
On the USD component of the war veteran’s budget, as I said it is already there, they are getting the US$50 in addition to the 75% of the salary which is linked to that of a warrant officer Grade 2. From Hon. Mushoriwa, he came back to the issue of cost of hiring certain services whether it is transportation or whatever, yes agreed this is high right across Government and that is what we are dealing with now in terms of value for money principle that we have introduced. You will see us really managing these costs so they do not run away because most of the pricing in the past has been based on forward exchange rate pricing, parallel market exchange as opposed to the proper official exchange rate. Now on the issue of accommodation for the military that Hon. Mushoriwa mentioned, again as I said we are dealing with it in various barracks or cantonments, we are building houses and the Ministry of Housing is also involved in the programme. I thank you.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Chair.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Chair, it is very dark out there, there is no light and one of our Hon. Members has fallen down. We ask that the administration switches on the lights.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: The administration is going to look at that.
Vote 4 put and agreed to.
On Vote 5, Finance and Economic Development; $127 647 990.700.00:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I just want to find out from the Hon. Minister, we have got an embarrassing situation where one of the agencies that fall under the Ministry of Finance, ZIMSTATS, I want to find out whether sufficient resources have been paid to put aside for ZIMSTAT to liquidate the debts that they accrued during the enumeration exercise. I also know and I have got people within my constituency who also complain that they have not received part of their promised allowances.
The second issue is on ZIMRA. I take note Hon. Minister that this is a supplementary but there are issues under ZIMRA which are a cause for concern. The first issue, I think you are aware of the need which was mentioned within the Budget and Finance Committee Report, the need for retention of funds by ZIMRA. I just want you to speak on it. There is a delay in terms of this drone, I know they are working on it but it appears as if the bottleneck is the provision of resources to ensure that we cut the leakage that is actually happening on the borders.
I think you are aware that there have been several reports in this august House - be it Budget and Finance Committee, be it Defence or other various Committees pertaining to that issue. Lastly Hon. Speaker, confirm to us because it is important, especially when you look at the unallocated envelope. As you might be aware, for the past three years, for some reason that envelope has been exceeded. Now that you have come up with a supplementary budget, we will not have a situation where come December again because youwill end up with having exceeded the unallocated reserve, which in my view if you check from what the Auditor General stated, it does portray a better future. Those are my three points.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank Hon. Mushoriwa for those three statements. On the budget for the census enumerators, yes we have set aside a budget to clear that backlog and that challenge. They have done a marvelous job in terms of giving us that data right across the board, so we have made a provision for that.
On the ZIMRA retention issue, as I said in the debate for this budget, we are considering this issue. I think the proposal from the Budget and Finance Committee was 3% retention. We are looking into it, and we will come back to Parliament with a proposal.
Then on the drone equipment acquisition, Hon. Mushoriwa is right that there has been delay in the acquisition. It was procurement and there was a challenge in the process. We are very close now to concluding the process and ZIMRA has been running with this process, but we will get there I can assure you.
On the issue of overalls on the unallocated reserves, he wanted assurance; I assure you we will not have overalls. I think that we have provided quite a bit. We have provided just over $63 billion in unallocated reserves initially but we have already taken out the $2 billion from there, which I propose that we put that towards Vote 2. That is why I mentioned on the $2 billion. So if that is accepted, we are now down to about $61 billion. I think we are okay there and we should be able to handle that kind of unallocated reserve. I thank you.
Vote 5 put and agreed to.
On Vote 6 – Office of the Auditor General - $1 59 620 000:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chairperson. My contribution pertains to the Auditor General. I think the Hon. Minister is aware that we always even from the Public Accounts fought that the Auditor General has to get at least one percent of the budget. You are aware that the Auditor General’s Office is getting less than 0.03% but my major reason for my debate is not the allocation under the supplementary budget. My problem is that the Auditor General, the amount, the level of disbursement is one of the least 17%. The Auditor General is the office that is responsible for ensuring that the provisions of Chapter 17 of our Constitution on Public Finance Management are adhered to. I do not understand, maybe the Minister can explain to us if the 17% disbursement is because the Auditor General is not asking for resources or Treasury does not see the importance of the Auditor General. The Auditor General has to audit the Government accounts, State enterprises, provincial councils and local authorities but if we disburse 17%, I think it is so bad. This is the reason why for me to argue on the supplementary budget of one billion, it does not make sense because Treasury has not been disbursing funds. I also want to remind the Hon. Minister that this House adopted a report pertaining to the operations of the Auditor General’s Office. It is incapacitated at the moment. It is now becoming a training ground. People are running away from the Auditor General’s Office. My query at this juncture is to simply say the level of disbursements leaves a lot to be desired.
Hon. Chair, the supplementary budget to me may be fine as long as there are disbursements. Thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: I just want to say that for us to ensure that resources that we are allocated are accounted for, there is need to carry out audits. May the Hon. Minister consider increasing the Auditor General’s Vote by not less than 40% of what he has already allocated? The Auditor General, because of technology, has also to retool. They need computers, other machines and transport. If we look at the reports they have been producing, it would not be prudent even for the Auditor General’s staff to ask for transport when they carry out audits. It is important that the Minister seriously consider increasing this Vote.
I want to take my hat off to the Auditor General Mrs. Chiri, why people decided to extend her stay at that department was because of the results that she is producing. The people who are letting down the Auditor-General is us as Parliament because the Auditor-General has done enough to put into the open how we are abusing the resources. Until we take care of our resources, we will continuously have the Minister here asking for supplementary because the resources are being abused and the Auditor-General has been doing a perfect job. So, I strongly urge the Minister to consider giving more resources to this department. The Minister cannot be complicit to all the chicaneries going on in all these ministries.
Right now, as Public Accounts, we are faced with a condonation Bill which the Ministry of Finance cannot furnish the Auditor-General with proper information to qualify the extra spending. Are we punishing them for doing their good job by not paying that Ministry or allocating enough resources to the Ministry? Is it that we want to constrain them to make sure they do not perform?
If it is not our idea to incapacitate the department, then why can we not allocate enough resources to this special department headed by a very patriotic and honest lady? I thank you Hon. Chairman.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: May I remind Hon. Members that we are not going over 7 p.m. because we have not suspended any provisions of the Standing Orders. Can you be brief?
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair, I want to thank the Hon. Members who have spoken before me about this very important department of Government that keeps in check in terms of accountability in every department and other departments. I would like to find out from the Minister that we had a scenario where this particular department has lost staff due to poor remuneration. I just wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister because this particular department has had incidences where it has lost a lot of staff and the budget that has been allocated can I get a guarantee from the Hon. Minister on whether this will also attract staff retention because that department has lost a lot of professionals leaving for parastatals and neighbouring countries?
The final one that I wanted to find out is that we have had cases where the Auditor-General’s Office was supposed to get some furniture rehabilitation because of the dilapidation of that Burroughs House. Can I get an assurance from the Minister on whether in this supplementary budget, that component is also covered so that it attracts the public eye? When you are unpacking a lot of works, you should not be found yourself working in whims. Thank you.
THE HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I thank the three Members for their contributions, starting with Hon. Mushoriwa. He talked about slow disbursements – what happened in the first quarter during the course of COVID. The Auditor-General could not do her work and that is why there were very slow disbursements in the first three or four months. The real work started in May but now they are up to about 70% of their budget utilisation. So, we caught up in terms of disbursements.
Coming to Hon. Madzimure that we should increase supplementary budget especially on the equipment - I was just consulting my staff at the back and I propose that we add another ZW$300 million to the office of the Auditor-General that will go towards supporting, equipping and that again will come from unallocated reserves. That also will deal with the input that came from Hon. Mpariwa on dealing with staff losses, staff retention and buying them furniture and other equipment. We will try to take care of that using additional supplementary budget.
Vote 6 put and agreed to.
Vote 7 - Industry and Commerce – ZW$1 662 520 000 put and agreed to.
On Vote 8 - Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement – 100 622 047 300:
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Chairman. Hon. Minister, will you please put figures that motivate people. If we do not pay attention to that, people will no longer farm staple food at all. Looking at the issue of livestock, cattle are dying. We need dip tanks and medication for farm animals. May we please pay attention to that so that we do not continue to lose livestock? The other issue is that of transport. The issue of Pfumvudza, you once mentioned that you are going to disburse in time the issue of transport. It is better you disburse it in time so that we experience the convenience of delivering in time. Thank you.
*HON. DUTIRO: Thank you Hon. Chair. We would like to thank the Budget Committee for their efforts to try to make it right for people and the economy. It is my humble plea that we put our focus on the issue of dams that we have in the country so that people are able to practice irrigation. Despite us building new dams, we have small dams that may be expanded or developed to help those who want to irrigate smaller portions like 1 hectare. I thank you.
*HON. CHDZIVA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I want to contribute on the issue of GMB. We see that the Minister has put money aside to import grain to support the reserves that we have. My thinking is that the Minister should focus on reviewing the maize price so that people can sell their grain to GMB. The prices that are there are not as attractive as they should be. It is prudent that we make prices that are attractive, that are persuasive so that we do not buy maize from outside but buy from within the country. I thank you.
+HON. BRG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: Thank you Hon. Chair for giving me the opportunity to add my voice on agriculture. I would like to talk more with regards to livestock. From 2010 to date, we have had inputs, dip tanks and livestock like cattle are increasing. We expected that price of beef would be reduced. In countries like Botswana, livestock farmers are given support for buying cattle feed and chemicals. I would like the Hon. Minister to look at new stock like sheep, especially in dry areas like Matabeleland. They should have more goats from other countries.
Also when helping each other in agriculture, there is need to do intensive grazing by growing cattle feed so that they do not move for long distances to get food? Thank you.
*HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I just want to talk on one thing that since agriculture is key to the economy, please try to control on prices of fertilisers and seed. I thank you.
+HON PHULU: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to say that money distributed for diseases that are affecting livestock, is not enough. Since there are many diseases, why $2 billion has been used, $6 billion should be allocated because the diseases like foot and mouth require more money. I thank you
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Chairman, I move that you report progress and seek leave to sit again.
Motion put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee of Supply to resume: Wednesday, 24th August, 2022.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. MUDARIKWA, the House adjourned at Six Minutes to Seven o’clock p. m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rdAugust, 2022
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SLOW AND UNSTABLE INTERNET CONNECTION
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Parliament of Zimbabwe is experiencing slow and unstable internet. We are heavily affected during today’s sitting. TelOne is facing technical challenges so we are going to activate the backup link.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Hon. President of Senate. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND DEVELOPMENT ON THE BENCHMARKING VISIT TO RWANDA
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on the benchmarking visit to Rwanda on women participation in leadership, politics, decision making positions and women empowerment in the socio-economic sector.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for awarding me this opportunity to add my voice on the report which was presented by the Chairperson of the Gender Development Thematic Committee, Hon. Sen. Ndlovu, seconded by Hon. Sen. Mpofu. Many things have already been mentioned by those who have spoken before me on the trip to Rwanda. Everyone managed to hear what the Government of Rwanda is doing including upliftment of women, politics, economic and social development. This means Rwanda is on top on these issues.
We also heard that Rwanda has got many women in Parliament, which shows that the country is dedicated in uplifting women in politics. We would want to thank that decision by Rwanda because it makes us as a country to copy something good from them. The people in Rwanda are united. They sit together and agree on a certain thing and speak with one voice. This allows development in the country because people will be working together as a country. As Zimbabwe, we must follow these footsteps because the idea of working together and speaking with one voice is very important for the development of the country. It also enables Government policies to be successful because all of us will be working together and there will be development.
Mr. President, in Rwanda, there were clashes between ethnic groups. On this issue, they managed to sit down as a country and came up with good policies to resolve their conflicts. They did not use ideas from other countries. It is something that we should emulate. Rwanda managed to sit down and resolve their problems without involving other countries. They sat down and managed to come up with solutions which are beneficial to their country.
Right now many countries are envying the unity and the development which is happening in Rwanda. There is nothing as bad as ethnic fights in the country. It is something which causes fighting between different people of different ethnic groups and when there is war between different ethnic groups, there is no development. As a country, as Zimbabwe, we must encourage unity among different cultural backgrounds.
From the report, I am also happy that in Rwanda, there are NGOs like many other countries in Africa, but the NGOs that are operating in Rwanda are working together with the Government for the development of the country. It is something I applaud very much. In Rwanda, NGOs are working hand-in-hand with the Government. They support the Government policies and they support even every development which is being brought into the country by the Rwandan Government.
Even here in Zimbabwe, you have NGOs. We hope that these NGOs are going to support the Government in their policies and their developmental programmes. The NGOs must desist from involving themselves in politics because they are not here for politics. We want to say as Zimbabweans, let us be united. We want to thank the New Dispensation and His Excellency Dr. Mnangagwa. There is a lot of development which is happening in the country - the roads, schools in different areas. These programmes need unity of purpose from Zimbabweans so that there is development. I want to thank you Mr. President for awarding me this opportunity. I thank you.
*HON. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for awarding me this opportunity to add my voice on the report which was presented by the delegation which went to Rwanda. We have been given the report. The report was presented by Sen. C. Ndlovu, seconded by Hon. Sen. Mpofu.
Mr. President, firstly, I want to thank the leaders of this House because we support programmes and delegations to go to different countries which are performing well so that we can go and take notes from these countries and then we can come back and use those good points to develop our country.
From the report, I saw that for Rwanda to be successful, everything they are doing in many policies, they are coming from their constitution. If the constitution of the country has been crafted emulating the issue of uniting people from different cultural backgrounds, it is bound to lead to development because people will be working following the constitution of the country.
Mr. President, we all know that in Rwanda, there was war between different ethnic groups. When they were crafting their constitution, they looked for a way to end these civil wars. What they agreed on in their constitution is what they are following right now. Here in our country Mr. President, I also want to thank what is being done by the Government for the upliftment of women. There are laws which were enacted which are in the Constitution, which is Section 5 on Gender Equality and Empowerment. All these laws are being enacted in an attempt to help women so that they can develop, be uplifted and put in different influential positions so that there is development in the country.
Mr. President, there is Section 17 of the Constitution which talks about gender balance, but that law has not been properly looked into so that the laws can tally with the Constitution so that whenever elections are being done from the councils to the ministries and other different areas, they must make sure that there are equal opportunities between men and women. If we manage to do that Mr. President, we are going to match what has been done by Rwanda or we can surpass that because we will be working using our own Constitution that women must be found in every area of decision making; where there are elections, there should be equality.
I also encourage us as Zimbabweans and as a country that we must make sure that Section 17 of the Constitution must be looked into by the gurus in law so that that section can be applied. If Section 17 is applied, we can see that we will be having equality, 50/50 from council to any other areas like Cabinet and in the august House.
I also want to thank that these issues are being talked about and our President, His Excellency Dr. Mnangagwa is practicing that. If you look at our provinces, we have got 10 provinces, Ministers of State, we have got five women and five men. We must also follow what is being done by His Excellency because right now it is being said and is also included in the Constitution. Hence, I encourage all other areas to follow the 50/50 rule so that our country can develop.
Mr. President, the elders say wisdom is power and it can be borrowed from others. The delegation which went to Rwanda came with a lot of knowledge. May we as a country, emulate or copy from Rwanda so that there is development in the country. May we copy from Rwanda so that our country is also developed in terms of gender equity. I want to thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion on the report to Rwanda by Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu, seconded by Hon. Sen. S. Mpofu. I witnessed a fight between the Hutus and Tutsis. If you were a married man who was married to this tribe, you and your entire lineage were beheaded using machetes. As you know, if you are a man who loves his woman, it was so painful to see her being killed. So I do not encourage tribalism and fights between tribes.
Tribalism is not good because those who will be killed will be praying to God the remaining days of their lives asking ‘why did you let my parents and my people be killed?’ They kept the heads as a reminder to remind people that tribalism fight is not good. Even in our country Zimbabwe, if we go to areas where there was war and where our children were buried, it is a very painful situation to visit there. I want to thank the President of the Chiefs’ Council that he sent lawyers to go and try to settle this matter. This did not help and it was decided that they must resolve their own conflict. Chiefs therefore had to sit down to find a solution and they managed to find a solution and now they do not want to hear any source of tribalism.
When our daughters and sons went for war, they did not ask where one comes from; they had one vision of fighting for the liberation struggle and that is a very good example. We must unite in everything that we do. Women occupy the majority of seats in Parliament in Rwanda. We are proud that our women can now occupy leadership positions. Our Zimbabwean women are very hard working, even in the fields they are good farmers. They can also head homes very well in the absence of their husbands. In the case that the father is not there, women carry the burden of looking and fending for their children and that is so much responsibility for the women.
There are some women who are not responsible but the majority of our women are very responsible people, they discourage violence and encourage peace and nation building. They do not want to witness war because they are warm-hearted. It pains them as mothers to see people dying. If we unite, our country will develop. I want to thank the Second Republic; we no longer witness a lot of violence and the rate or incidences of violence are decreasing. Members of Senate have witnessed the ugly side of war and our leaders here in Senate always encourage us to be peaceful and united. Long ago we were not united but now we can discuss and share ideas as the Upper House. We must continue to be united as a country. Rwanda told us that our children can go and work as teachers but as elders and leaders of the country, we will first see if it is safe to let our children go there. There is no single day that passes without me getting messages from our youngsters who want to go to Rwanda. I inform them to go to their provinces so that the travel documents can be facilitated if they qualify for assistance. This is all because Rwanda is peaceful.
We must support our women in their projects because some are doing very well. I also appreciate the support that they are getting from the Women’s Bank. We are proud that our women are now empowered. When I came to Harare in 1966, I saw a board that was written ‘Africans and dogs are now allowed in town’. We were not allowed to visit our relatives; you were supposed to get a permit to be permitted to live with your relatives. We must be united besides the fact that we belong to different political parties.
Mr. President, our President is a President for everyone. He is not a President for people of a certain political persuasion. We should have unity of purpose so that our country may develop. In the New Dispensation, the President represents everyone. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: I would like to thank you for the time you have given me to debate on the report that was brought by the delegation that went to Rwanda. The report says that after the war, the Rwandese reconciled and became one. In the Senate, we have someone from the Opposition deputised by the other party. In Rwanda, they have their national dress - even us here in Zimbabwe, we do have that national dress. It was distributed here in Parliament. People were given that national dress regardless of their political persuasion.
The towns in Rwanda are clean and very hygienic. The President came up with a clean-up campaign for all towns here so that they may be hygienic. You find that if we all participate in those programmes; our differences will be reduced. The Government of Zimbabwe recognised that women should also have political positions. The Senate is presided over by a woman, deputised by a male. We are now recognised as women politicians. We are grateful for the people of Rwanda because they have caused us as Zimbabweans to appreciate having different political persuasion and we should not divide the country.
Part of speech not recorded due to technical fault.
*HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE: Thank you Mr. President for awarding me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Ndlovu. I also want to thank the delegates who went to Rwanda to see how other countries are living and how best they are doing their things. I also want to thank all those who debated. Those who went to Rwanda managed to see a lot of things and they have brought the report in this House. Now we have a case study on how other countries are living and surviving in their countries.
We heard that in Rwanda, there are 11 political parties but all these political parties are united and they are doing their things as one country. May we, as Zimbabweans, also have the same stance of being united despite having different political orientation? Even the issue of civil wars, we must have the same concept as Rwanda. Everyone must feel free as Zimbabweans. Let us not segregate each other depending on different languages or cultures. Let us treat each other as Zimbabweans even if we are coming from different political parties, the bottom line is you are a Zimbabwean.
On the issue of respect, in Rwanda they respect women very much compared to Zimbabwe. May we, as Zimbabweans, be able to respect women and include women in many influential positions because women are not corrupt but men are very corrupt? May we have the same issue of leading as women so that men can stay behind because they are very corrupt? May women be given leadership positions?
On the issue of clean environment, in other countries where the cleanup programme is done, there are no cars travelling or any other duties being done. Here in Zimbabwe, when the President is going to do a cleanup in other towns, you see people walking and doing their business but not respecting the issue of that there is a cleanup programme. May we follow the footprints of other countries of doing cleanup campaign?
On the issue of respect, we heard that the people of Rwanda respect each other, whether you are a police officer, a nurse or what, they respect each other. May we also respect each other so that we might not have petty issues and other issues like corruption? They are being caused by lack of respect.
On the issue of youth, youth from other countries are being given the opportunity to lead whilst they are young. I heard that there are some Ministers who are young and there is a Minister who is 22 years. Can we emulate that as Zimbabwe?
On the issue of corruption, we heard that in Rwanda, there is not much corruption because people in Rwanda are united. They work for one common cause and there is not much corruption because people in Rwanda are united. They work for one common goal and they protect their country so that there is order, peace and development. As Zimbabwe, we must respect each other and fight corruption with one common cause. We must put our heads together and eliminate or end corruption because corruption is the root cause of under development of the suffering in Zimbabwe.
Zimbabwe is a blessed country – we have all resources but we are failing to manage our resources properly. May we emulate or take notes from other countries to end corruption so that there is peace and development in the country. I heard of the programme of sanitary pads that in Rwanda, every month, they distribute sanitary pads to vulnerable women. May we copy this idea of giving women sanitary pads and apply it to Zimbabwe. Right now in Zimbabwe, there are women who are suffering and others end up using other means when they are in their menstrual cycle, using some materials which are unhealthy.
There is the issue of traditions, they respect their traditional leaders. Let us respect our chiefs and traditional leaders so that there is development in the country. Traditional leaders are the ones who stay with the people most of the time. Thank you very much Hon. President.
*HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the report which was presented by the delegation that went to Rwanda. They learnt what is happening in Rwanda. They say to do something good is because you have seen others doing it. We are very fortunate enough that we have got a good relationship with Rwanda. We work with Rwanda and we have got lots of cooperation with this country, but there are some areas which differ a bit from Rwanda and this is the area which I want to highlight. Speaking about the issue of representation of women in Parliament, Rwanda is said to be the first country in Africa which has got more women compared to other Parliaments in Africa. In Zimbabwe, we are fortunate that most people of Zimbabwe, when the Constitution was drafted in 2013, it was properly explained on the issue of equality between men and women.
If we manage to get the Founding Principle No. 1 on (g) and (f), (f) speaks about the recognition and equality of all human beings and (g) on the Founding Principles talks about gender equality. We are far much better because these issues are already in the Constitution and the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land. We have the Constitution. If we go to Section 17, there is an issue of gender balance. In our Constitution, it is clearly defined that the State must promote full participation of women in all spheres of the Zimbabwean society on the basis of gender.
In Rwanda, they are not told just to give women positions, they are following their Constitution. Right now in Zimbabwe, even the issue of being given 30% proportional representation so that the number of women participation is increased, it does not tally to 50/50 representation but when we look at 2013, these women who were contesting on their own, were many compared to when we came to 2018, which means that there was no 50(. There was nothing to talk about because we are lagging behind.
The problem which we have is that we must look or we must craft the law which works hand-in-hand or tallies with the Constitution. We are the ones who must look into the issue and resolve it. We have the Judiciary, the Executive and the Legislature. We must put our heads together and see why the Constitution of the country is not being implemented. Women in Parliament, in the Senate, we are helped by the Zebra system in the Constitution. We are also helped by 60 in the Constitution but we do not reach the equality or the 50/50 because we are not empowered to be able to contest with men since many people are not well informed that women can hold higher positions. At Commissions, that is where the issue of equality is being applied. They are looking at gender equality but when we come here at Parliament, we see that we are not operating following the Constitution. Even if we look at Cabinet, we are not near the gender parity. If we look at the Government parastatals, there is no equality. We are not even matching what is being said by the Constitution.
The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. What we
need is the implementation of what is already there. Right now, many women are trying to be educated so that they are empowered, whether in Parliament, parastatals, et cetera. Why are we failing to follow the Constitution? Whilst Rwanda does not have the provisions in their Constitution but they are recognising women. If the Minister who is responsible for laws was here, we were going to ask him why we are failing to implement that. This Constitution was derived from the contributions of all Zimbabweans but we are not following it. The position in the Constitution says we need equality in terms of representation and positions everywhere. Today, I am saying let us copy from other countries so that we can be at par with them.
Zimbabwe is known as a country with the highest literacy rate. In Rwanda, to show that we are far much better than them, they have requested for teachers from Zimbabwe. They know that Zimbabweans are educated. During independence, there was the issue of adult literacy as a way of uplifting women. Our literacy rate is over 90%. We are being requested to give teachers to Rwanda. They appreciate that Zimbabweans are educated. It is not Rwanda alone, but Sudan and other countries are also requesting Zimbabweans from Public Service and other departments to go and help them in their countries. On this issue of aligning with the supreme law in terms of equality, let us help each other as legislators. I believe that we are going to look into this issue urgently and look for others to help us to find why we are not implementing the Constitution. It is not like we are looking for something which is new but it is something which is already there. What is lacking is implementation.
We have the Constitution and this is the ninth year from 2013 but we have not started to implement what is in our Constitution. We may talk and talk many things but we must work on alignment and implementation of what is in the Constitution. We cannot reach the level where Rwanda is if we do not respect our own Constitution.
The second thing which I want to talk about on the report of Rwanda is hygiene. Rwanda is one of the most hygienic countries in Africa. As Government, we tried to copy what is good from Rwanda and apply it here. When people started to go to Rwanda, they said that Rwanda is too smart; you cannot even throw litter everywhere. They said that the President of that country, every Saturday everyone is compelled to do the cleaning. As a country, we copied that. We said every first Friday of the month, since 5th December, 2018, we started clean up campaigns but there is need for the enactment of a law to make it effective.
There was a declaration that was made that we must clean our environment and everyone must stop working from 8 to 10 a.m. across the country. However, the issue of enforcement is lacking. Between 8 and 10 am, every first Friday of the month, people will be doing business as usual, litter being thrown out of windows and there is litter everywhere. A lot of things are happening but we must come up with enforcement that those who are not doing clean up must be punished. This will make people abide with the clean-up campaign.
Also as legislators, we have a role to play to see that our communities where we stay are abiding with the clean-up campaign. We must show by example, by participating in the clean-up campaign in our areas. We must go to schools and encourage them so that we catch them young and they will get used to this culture of cleaning. There are some schools where pupils do not want to see litter on the ground because they are being taught at school that the issue of littering is disturbing the environment. If we get the opportunity to go to Lake Chivero and see what is inside, it will be difficult to drink water. There is too much dirt at Lake Chivero. I had the opportunity under this clean-up campaign. I am the one who started this programme after seeing it in Rwanda. We invited His Excellency, Dr. Mnangagwa to come to Chivero and see what is there. We are throwing plastics and bottles everywhere. It is littered. The plastics are not bio-degradable and that is how we are killing the aqua life: the fish, crocodiles et cetera.
Local authorities also dispose effluent in the rivers. It is only that God is merciful to us. We are drinking water and eating fish from these water sources such as Lake Chivero and Darwendale. We just buy fish with the hope that we are going to boil them. The level of dirt in these areas is very high. We are not educating people on the disadvantages of littering everywhere. When we were growing up, there were clubs where people were being taught about hygiene and there were competitions. In our constituencies, let us inculcate and encourage people about hygiene in their homes. We should teach children not to throw litter everywhere so that our environment will be protected. Let us follow the footprints of Rwanda in terms of hygiene. Let us also implement Section 1 and Section 17 which talks about the issue of equality, which is being spearheaded by the Government. Thank you Mr. President.
^ HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for awarding me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion by Hon. Sen. C. Ndlovu, seconded by Hon. Sen. Mpofu. They told us something which is very fruitful. We must learn from Rwanda. His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa encourages us to be united, love each other and speak with one voice as a country.
The delegation that went to Rwanda found out that the country faced civil wars in the previous years. They reached a stage where they hired 80 lawyers but they did not manage to solve the civil unrest. They later on got the advice that the traditional leaders can help them in resolving these issues. They later on came back and consulted their traditional leaders. They presented their problems to the traditional leaders and these leaders sat down with the different groups and taught them the correct behaviour and encouraged unity. This led to the end of the civil unrest. Here in Zimbabwe, we encourage that we must be able to sit down and resolve our issues so that there is development.
The other issue which I want to add my voice on Mr. President is that in Rwanda, there are more women in Parliament. The President of Rwanda knows that women are very important. They are people who are respectful, hard working and dedicated. Even here in the Senate, the number of women must be increased. Women have got a big heart. They are people who are dedicated because they are the ones who carry pregnancy for nine months, they are the people who give birth to lives. Right now, we must continue to work hard and be united as a country. I can continue talking whilst emphasising on the issues that have already been mentioned by others.
I also want to talk about the issue of cleanup programmes. Let us work with our councillors and traditional leaders so that once every first Friday of the month, we go and clean different areas so that we can stay in clean areas. Every councillor in all the wards and traditional leaders must work together in cleaning their environment from morning until evening. It will help very much. There is no one who will come to build our country. We must take notes from other countries so that we can be the first country in every aspect in development.
Rwanda managed to identify their weakness of civil wars - they sat down and managed to come up with solutions to end civil unrest. Even us as a country, let us look at our problems, sit down and resolve them. Where we are not doing good, let us find solutions so that we can work together and develop our country. Right now, in this Senate Chamber, we have got men, women and also chiefs. In areas where we come from, there are chiefs also. Let us work together, be united and speak with one voice like what Rwanda is doing. There will be a lot of development in the country. Let us look into ourselves and identify areas we lack so that we can develop in those areas. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add one or two words to the report that has already been debated.
*THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order. Hon. Sen. Shumba if you can raise your voice.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: My apologies Mr. President. I said that I stood to add my voice on the report tabled by Hon. Sen. Ndlovu which has been greatly debated by my colleagues. I thought I would support the report. The issue of Rwanda that has been brought to this House is a matter that is being discussed by everyone. I think it is a very good and important issue. Most people have said that for us to become a good nation, we should take a leaf from what others are doing. They went to Rwanda and they want us to take a leaf from the good that they are doing.
I want to applaud the issue of women but I realised that there is an issue that is quite different from us. It has been a constitutional provision that women should be at decision making level. What is the reason why we have not attained that constitutional provision? In my opinion, I think that if we go to the Bible, Jesus said that if you go to Jerusalem, you will see a donkey that is tied to a tree. Untie that donkey and when they ask you why you want it, tell them the Master wants it’.
People went to the liberation struggle so that we would be independent and as women, we were included so that we could also occupy those decision making positions. Yes, the war was fought and we were liberated but women are still tied to the tree. We are just like the donkey that Jesus rode. The donkey kept on staying in that same area.
The Government loves women. The liberation fighters went to liberate us as Zimbabweans. No one will go and whip women to take up our place. As women, we need to go and encourage our fellow women that it is not bad for us to also take part in decision making. So we are still tied to this mentality. Rwanda is independent and women need to be able to encourage others for us to be part of decision making and governance. We should stand up and claim our space and take up the leadership roles.
In Mwenezi, they speak Chipfumbi and they think that leadership positions are for men. If we have that mentality, we will never progress. So I just stood up to urge my fellow women and even you the men in this House, may you please allow your women to come and take up leadership roles. We have a lot of women who are learned and we even have teachers that are going to other countries including women. They are going to other countries instead of taking leadership positions in Government. So I think because our Constitution has provided that women should be in leadership, the Government cannot go around whipping women to take up leadership positions, but what I urge my fellow women is; let us take a stand and take these leadership positions.
We should be sharing with Rwanda that we have succeeded on the issue of conflict that we always have. Maybe we continue being in conflict because of lack of knowledge and we end up name-calling and there is tribalism as well. You will find the Ndebele not wanting to interact with the Karanga and the Zezuru and there is this thing that as Zezurus, we cannot be governed by the Karanga and that alone is affecting us as a country. Instead of progressing, we are regressing. So I think it is time we do not center on the issue of totems but must be united. Even our President Dr. Mnangagwa is always talking of the issue of uniting just like the way we are united currently in this Parliament because now when we want to debate our issues, even the opposition also debate, we debated the SONA and I can see that this is slowly being addressed. They never say this is not our President, so we will not listen to him. That is the beginning of unity.
I do not know those who are going to be found wanting without uniting with others. I pray that God helps us as women that we have been liberated and God be with us so that we take up leadership positions through God’s help. I thank you.
HON. SEN. C. NDLOVU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th September, 2022.
MOTION
PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR COMPLETION OF DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for Government to provide adequate funds for the completion of dam projections.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th September, 2022.
MOTION
PARENTING AND EMBRACING A RECEPTIVE CULTURE FOR CHILDREN LIVING ON THE STREETS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on vulnerable children living on the streets.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to add my voice on the motion that was raised by Sen. S. Mpofu as well as the seconder, concerning street kids in urban centres, who are not staying in their parents’ homes.
It is sad to think of what our nation will become when we have children who live on the streets and we have children known as street kids. There is no road or street that bore a child but we are the parents of the children. When COVID commenced, it happened that I had an opportunity as a Senator representing Harare where I was invited to come and see children. It is because there was an initiative to round up these children and take them to a certain place.
I was shocked that they have street fathers and street mothers. When they were removed from the streets, they were angry saying that you have separated us from our husbands. The males were taken to Chinhoyi and the women were taken to Marondera. I visited all those places and the women there were very angry because they were accusing each other of snatching their boyfriends, this surprised me much.
The children were moved to a road near Masvingo. There were children who were going to school. I saw a child who was doing Form 6, I asked the child what was wrong and the child said my parents divorced and my father proceeded to marry another wife. So the second wife does not want to see me. The child was very bright in school. You can see that this whole situation was caused by parents. This second wife is very evil and does not want to look after another woman’s child.
The Government must make sure that those parents who divorce must be forced to look after their children. Some children had plans of returning back to the streets, they did not like the place they had been taken to. It is surprising Mr. President that some children who are found on the streets have both parents who are alive; the parents are so lazy that they cannot work to provide for their children. The parents will be at home and they will send children to beg in the streets and at the end of the day that child will go back home. As Hon. Senators, we must find a solution to this. I was suggesting that if there are such parents who fail to provide for their own children, those parents must be punished. We cannot call it a country if children with both parents are seen loitering and begging on the streets.
Some of these children, most of them are engaged in drugs; you see small children smoking glue. At first we ignored because drugs mostly were used by streets children but now this has spread even to our children whom we live with. Some children are even running away from their homes and joining the children in the streets. I am pleading that Government must remove those children from the streets, take them to a place far away and train them to do jobs that make them earn a living using their hands. Some of these people are no longer children, we cannot take them back to school because they are now men and women in streets but we must train them to do projects to look after themselves.
Those who are still young must be removed and be send far away where there is a school so that they can be rehabilitated and send back to school. Some of them are now wild. If these children are sent even to Gonarezhou and schools are built there, from there we will come up with some children who will later prosper in life. Some of these kids will turn to thieves if not looked after properly. I witnessed a woman complaining that his son is now involved in drugs and stealing. If he takes drugs, he then goes to steal even in the mother’s house. The Government must find solutions on how to end this problem of street children.
HON. SEN. N. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to share my views with this august Senate on this very important motion. I want to thank Hon. Sen. S. Mpofu for raising this very pertinent issue pertaining to the plight of the children who live in the streets. I also want to thank the seconder of the motion. I will not say much because already several things have been said. There are several reasons why children opt to stay in the streets rather than stay at their parents’ home. Again, I am not going to dwell into that but I will attempt to give solutions for removing these children from the streets. First and foremost, I would like to express my gratitude to organisations such as the East Out Movement, Yellow Bus Trust, Angel of Good Hope Foundation and churches, for the great work they are doing in trying to uplift and protect street kids. Some organisations have attempted to introduce sexual reproductive health, family planning, provisions of shelter, food, clothing and education.
In spite of all these efforts, these kids keep on going back to the streets because that is the place they are accustomed to. It is difficult to provide sustainable solutions given the prevailing economic situation because after taking them to homes for rehabilitation or reuniting them with their families, they need accommodation, money to start businesses, school fees, jobs and above all the will to start afresh and a society that accepts them.
The challenge that we face as a nation is that we do not have proper transitional or rehabilitation centres for these children and the adults. Government policy for children living at orphanage homes is that at 18 years, they should not continue staying at that home, so where do they go after turning 18, of course in the streets. That is the only place that they can go because no one wants to accommodate them. Some of these children do not have identity documents so where can they find work to sustain themselves. It is sad to have young children abusing drugs. In most cases, they will be given drugs by adults. Some of these children are already addicted to drugs and it will be very difficult for them to have better lives.
Mr. President, the solution is for the Government to arrest all the adults who give these children drugs because they are benefiting, they want money from these children, they want to abuse them especially abusing the big girls and that is why they give them drugs. When a child is drunk, he or she does not think properly, they will just agree to anything. It is very unfortunate.
Therefore, against this background, it is imperative that the Government considers stringent measures that will reduce the number of these kids. Policies must be amended. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare which is responsible for these kids must link its policies with other Ministries, for example the Ministry of Health and Child Care for easy access into healthcare; Ministry of National Housing to chip in to construct quarters for these street kids. They must do that in all the provinces. All the provinces have problems of street kids. I wonder how we are able to bear children, children are born by us females but then why should they stay in the streets when us the adults and parents are there? Society can also chip in and adopt these children. It must assist Government to try and control and take off these children from the streets. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NKOMO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th August, 2022.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes past Four O’clock p.m.