PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 3rd June, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
OMISSION OF A NOTICE OF MOTION
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House of an inadvertent omission of a Notice of Motion by Hon. Saizi on today’s Order Paper. I therefore direct that the item be inserted as Notice of Motion No. 12 and the subsequent Orders of the Day be renumbered sequentially, accordingly.
REPORTS LAID UPON THE TABLE
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of Section 12 (2) of the Audit Office Act [Chapter 22:18], I lay upon the table the following reports of the Auditor-General presented to Parliament for tabling in November, 2020. The first one is Registration, Supervision and Monitoring of Schools and Independent Colleges by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. The second set is, Disaster Preparedness and Distribution of Cyclone Idai Donations in Manicaland and Masvingo Provinces by the Civil Protection Organisation. I therefore urge Hon. Members to please read the reports accordingly. The Clerk should check if there is a soft copy for it so that they are distributed through the soft copy platform.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. I rise on a matter of public national importance. The campaign on accelerated reduction of maternal mortality in Africa says, ‘no woman will die while giving birth.’ As a result of that, Zimbabwe came up with a policy that Pregnant women will not pay user fees when they go to health facilities to give birth because when women are giving birth, they are performing a national duty.
The sad reality Mr. Speaker Sir is that, this policy is not being followed because women are made to pay user fees when they go to give birth. I therefore request that the Minister of Health and Child Care comes to this august House with a Ministerial Statement so that he clarifies whether women should pay or not. We have been raising this issue time and time again but we are told that women are not paying whereas on the ground it is not true, women are made to pay. Our mortality rate Mr. Speaker Sir, is increasing because it used to be 650 out of every 100.000 live births.
I am pretty sure that now it has increased because women are made to pay user fees resulting in them not giving birth in either a clinic or a hospital. They end up giving birth from home and thereby some of them end up dying, so the maternal mortality rate increases from time to time. I request that the Minister of Health and Child Care comes to this House with a Ministerial Statement so that he clarifies on user fees for pregnant women. Like I said, when women give birth, they are performing a national duty. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Acting Chief Whip, can you make sure the information is disseminated to the Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care accordingly so that next week they can through their office prepare a Ministerial Statement as requested by Hon. Dr. Khupe.
HON. MAVETERA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity. I rise on a point of national interest which I thought is important Hon. Speaker Sir, to be able to applaud each and every effort that we would have done as a country and be able to relate to it as it goes. Hon. Speaker Sir, I would like to applaud our Members of PAP from this august House who went to South Africa and had to defy all interests that had been done by other countries whereby they want to marginalise certain countries or other regions from participating in the regional cause.
Hon. Speaker Sir, we celebrated Africa Day on 25th May this year and indeed we actually had to speak and foster on issues to do with regional interests and African interests as a continent. Hon. Speaker Sir, we realised that there was actually an interest that had certain countries as we noted from what was presented. We realised that some countries were then marginalised from getting into elections at the PAP. We saw our very own Hon. Rwodzi, Hon. Mathe and Hon. Togarepi going head on with people there to show that at least as Africa and also Zimbabwe, we are supposed to be included.
Hon. Speaker Sir, this has always been the norm even with other regional bodies whereby you realise that there is that marginalisation. We really want to applaud that team which was leading. Indeed, we want to thank them. Hon. Rwodzi inspired us as women and she had to fight on for economic freedom; we want to applaud all that work. We want to say this is what we need to do whereby we need to be fighting for our inclusion as women and as Africa so that at least we can then become one Africa. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In response to your observation, I would like to put it on record that we had a very strong and robust team that claimed their right in terms of the leadership of the Pan African Parliament. I was happy to see that our delegation was multi-party. Members from the opposition joined the delegation. These included Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, Hon. Dr. Khupe, apart from Hon. Dr. Mashakada who is a Standing Member of PAP. I can inform this House that the delegation joined hands with other Members from the southern regional caucus and put up a very strong fight which ended up in the elections being postponed. I am sure that at the appropriate time, the African Union, through its appropriate organ will be able to go to South Africa and be the polling officers on neutral gear to ensure that elections are conducted in a very calm atmosphere.
In any case, bearing the fact that the delegation presents its report to this House as expected, there were only two regions; that is the northern and the southern regions that were due to contest the PAP presidency. However, the northern regional caucus did not want to put up a candidate for the presidency and that left the southern regional caucus being the only caucus with a candidate in the name of Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira who should have gone in unopposed in any case. We are hoping that will take place in due course and I will brief His Excellency the President who has been a strong supporter and campaigner through his colleagues Head of States and Government and ensure him that all is not lost. We will get there and will do so successfully.
I can assure you from my assessment of the understanding of Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira on issues at hand that you will see some major transformation of the Pan African Parliament in terms of rules of procedure as well as its impact in its role as an organ of the African Union. Rest assured, that will happen as soon as he assumes the PAP presidency. Thank you for your observation Hon. Mavetera.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of privilege on an issue of national importance that arises because of your interaction with your portfolio committees and thematic committees in Parliament. As it relates to reports of portfolio committees Mr. Speaker Sir, they are both informed by Section 117 of the Constitution and Section 119 of the Constitution relate to the oversight that Parliament has on the Executive. It is my fervent view that the view and the oversight exhibited by Parliament should not come to the fore only when the Executive has not performed diligently in their duties. The example and the key issue that brings me here is the former Pencil Fin Highway of death of that the Masvingo/Beitbridge/Harare highway which used to bring in three quarters of our GDP.
It is my hope and view that if your Committees in particular of transport had to play critical oversight, they would both chastise in the 8th Parliament that we did, chastise the Executive in our oversight role, but they would also in the 9th Parliament applaud the Executive in the manner they are carrying out their mandate in terms of infrastructure development. There is nothing that has come to this House to applaud the infrastructure development that is over half a billion USD.
It would then seem as though there is nothing happening in the Second Republic as if your Committees of Parliament remain mum, dumb founded and quiet in the face of such humongous, gigantic and very critical, big investment and infrastructure development which is going to make sure there is more than three quarters of our GDP coming into the country. I ask fervently that you do not harbor the bygones if there are ways that you can reinvigorate your Committees in particular. Reinvigorate them by inclusion of Hon. Members that have both - according to Section 18 (2) of your Standing Rules and Orders, the clout and the interest so that they can be robustness in the carrying out of their duties in applauding the Executive where it is applaudable. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to ventilate my issue.
Hon. Dr. Labode having said something after Hon. Nduna’s speech.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get it Hon. Labode. Ukhuluma loSpeaker kumele ume, ngizakususa endlini yakhola la.
HON. DR. LABODE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I have heard Hon. Nduna appealing and today in the afternoon he was telling me about how he is well versed with transport. Now I have heard him crying out to you to say some of the things are not being done especially in the transport industry because we lack the people with the requisite knowledge in the Committee on Transport. I propose to this House that Hon. Nduna be incorporated the Transport Committee.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, there was a request for a ministerial statement from Ministry of Finance and the Hon. Deputy Minister is here now and I want to accord the Hon. Deputy Minister the opportunity to deliver that Ministerial Statement.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
ISSUANCE OF STATUTORY INSTRUMENT 127 OF 2021
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIGN AND DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker for me this opportunity. I rise to make a Ministerial Statement of on the issuance of Statutory Instrument 127 of 2021. My Ministerial Statement provides the policy rationale on the issuance of Statutory Instrument 127 of 2021. My statement will cover the following critical areas of the S.I.: background, objectives and advantages.
The Financial Laws Amendment Regulations (S.I 127 2021) seek to address the gaps identified in the bank Use Promotion Act (chapter 24:24) and the Exchange Control Act (Chapter 22.05), to stabilise the exchange rate, promote use of the banking system as well as safeguard the banking system from being abused for illicit activities, by introducing administrative or civil penalties on delinquent individuals and corporate entities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the President is empowered in terms of Section 2 of the Presidential Powers (Temporary Measures) Act[Chapter 10:20] to make such regulations when a situation arises which he considers needs to be dealt with urgently in the economic interests of Zimbabwe or the general public interest.
Regulations made under Presidential Powers are valid for six months to pave way for amendment of the aforementioned two Act through the normal process which involves the passage of the amendment Bills through Parliament. The Statutory Instrument seeks to:
ü Minimise arbitrage opportunities in the market;
ü Minimise abuse of the auction system
ü To provide a level playing field for business
ü To protect consumers; and
ü To enforce compliance, which is necessary for continues stability
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Statutory Instrument will empower the RBZ and the FIU to impose appropriate penalties on individuals or corporates where there is evidence of the following delinquencies:
ü Using foreign currency obtained directly or indirectly from a foreign exchange auction or an authorised dealer for a purpose other than that specified in the application.
ü Refusing to allow a buyer to tender payment for goods in Zimbabwean dollars at the ruling exchange rate
ü Failure to verify correctness of customer information by banks
ü Charging a price for goods/services above the auction rate or allowing a discount on foreign currency payments
ü Issuing of local currency receipts for a foreign currency purchase
ü Failure to open a bank account
ü Failure to avail to customers electronic means of payment
ü Failure to keep records
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is envisaged that implementation of the regulations will have positive impact through;
ü Consumer protection from abuse by unscrupulous businesses
ü Increased financial inclusion
ü Convergence of parallel and formal exchange rates.
Price stability of goods and services, customers will be able to settle payments of goods and services in either currency. The S.I. promotes market discipline which is a key anchor of the price and financial stabilisation strategies. The banning on cross-currency receipt issuances where goods are sold in USD$ would be receipted in ZW$ ensures that vulnerable consumers are protected. This is in line with standard Consumer Rights and expectations in the region and elsewhere. The widespread abuse of the auction platform through arbitrages will be eliminated by making sure that banks adhere closely to KYC and due diligence procedures. This will ensure that foreign currency is available to genuine importers and not speculators. Hon. Members, the implementation of this noble initiative will require the auction system to increase access of forex to more businesses.
Mr. Speaker Sir, after all has been said and done, these regulations have been promulgated to urgently maintain exchange rate stability, enforce compliance and market discipline in financial transactions thereby protecting the consumers. Exchange rates can be any figure but it does not generate forex. What is critical is production and the consolidation of stability which is critical for us to move forward as a country and is supported by genuine progressive corporates, organised labour and consumers. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister for the statement. Are there any questions for clarification?
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and I want to thank the Hon. Deputy Minister for giving us the Ministerial Statement…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you put your gadget nearer and try to speak up a little bit?
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to pose a few questions to the Hon. Deputy Minister on the Ministerial Statement. Mr. Speaker Sir, I wonder if the Deputy Minister is aware of the rate at which prices of commodities have gone up since the pronouncement was made.
I will give a practical example. Today I went to Halsteds intending to buy rhinoset. Last week I bought it for $11.00 for 25kgs and today, I was told that it is now $18.00. I then went to Lighting World; chandeliers that were costing $250.00 now cost $750.00 and other forms of commodities. This is how prices have increased in the past four days. My question to the Hon. Deputy Minister is, what measures are being taken by the Government to make sure that all those retailers and wholesalers who have inflated their prices are punished? I feel that the proposed $50 000.00 penalty to business people is nothing but it is the ordinary people in the streets who are suffering. Their salaries are not going to be increased yet the prices of commodities have gone up three to four times. So what is the Government going to do to cushion the ordinary citizens…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member, you are now debating. I thought you asked a very good question when you started and I am sure that the Hon. Minister captured that question.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I have two points of clarity. The first one is …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Two points of clarity? – [HON. NDUNA: Questions Mr. Speaker Sir.] – Clarification. – [HON. NDUNA: Points of clarification.] – Points for clarification yes.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for that clarity in terms of clarification Mr. Speaker Sir. I have got two Mr. Speaker Sir …
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will indulge you but you are expected to ask one question.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The first one is, what is going to happen to the abusers of the foreign currency that they would have received from the auction system? The second question is, is it possible for you Hon. Minister to publish the names of those people/businesses that would have accessed the monies from the RBZ auction system so that we can know which garages to go and buy that fuel at the auction rate in RTGS form, those are the two issues that I would want you to ventilate on. I thank you.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the Hon. Minister is that Hon. Minister, if you read through S.I. 127 especially Clause 5 (7), it says that any person or corporate that charges a rate that is higher than the official rate, which I assume to be the auction rate, will be guilty of an offence.
Hon. Minister, given the fact that the auction has only disbursed, I think, around $1.8 billion and yet the amounts of money that have been in circulation during the course of the auction system is around $4 billion; what it implies is that a number of people are not accessing the auction. My question is, why would Government want to punish other people who are getting forex from their free funds and other sources and treat them as if they are the same as those who are accessing forex on the auction market, would that be fair?
Tied up to that Hon. Speaker is the question of consultation. Did Government carryout sufficient consultation amongst the stakeholders in the industry and small scale because our economy is highly informalised? I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for recognising me. I seek clarification from the Hon. Minister pertaining S.I. 127. Mr. Speaker Sir, what is the Ministry doing in terms of enforcement? The corporates and individuals should be able to comply with the Statutory Instrument. What measures are being taken by the Financial Intelligence Unit and the police unit to enforce this Statutory Instrument? How many people who have increased prices dramatically have been arrested? We want to know from the Minister the number of people and how much has been paid.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Let me begin by thanking the Minister for bringing the statement which actually answers some of the questions that were raised yesterday pertaining to Statutory Instrument 127, but perhaps really to get a clarification from the Minister. What are the monitoring mechanisms that the Ministry has put in place in terms of continuing to safeguard scrupulous abuse of consumers by those that actually control the market? I thank you.
HON. WATSON: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. Could the Minister agree that exporters are given at the auction, 40% of what they are bringing into the country? Does the 1.8 billion that is going through the forex auctions only represent 40%, so the export is so minimal in comparison to our import duty?
HON. MAVETERA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. My point of clarity is - what barometer are you going to be using to make sure who really is supposed to be benefiting from the forex since you said you are going to be making sure that at least you choose those that have great need? How are you going to see the need? How are you going to be determining who is supposed to be getting what and what capacity they have for them to be getting this foreign currency?
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. My point of clarification relates to businesses and enterprises that are unable to access foreign currency through the auction. There are a lot of business enterprises who have had to resort to other means to access foreign currency. My question to the Hon. Minister is; what are those businesses supposed to do because if they sell the goods at the auction rate when they have obtained the foreign currency at a premium, they actually run at a loss? Is this not going to result in a loss, whether people are not going to sell things under a culture to avoid a situation where they run out of business because they have not been able to access the foreign currency at the auction?
Can the Hon. Minister also clarify to us the percentage or roughly the transactions which are being conducted outside the money which is disbursed on a weekly basis on the auction platform? I thank you.
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD) MAYIHLOME: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of clarification to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development relates to the confidence in the banking sector. You have the exporters who put money under the pillow instead of taking it to the bank because banks are actually charging for deposits instead of giving interest. There is no motivation or incentives for people to really use the banking sector for foreign currency. Even those who get remittances from relatives have the habit of using the informal system and not taking that money through the bank and there is a lot of money that is circulating outside the formal banking system. What measure is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development taking to ensure that people are encouraged to transact through the banks even payments done through letters of credit?
The other issues have been touched on but I want to emphasize the point that as a Ministry, do you have the capacity to detect who is fueling the black market in this country? All these security institutions cannot detect who is fueling the black market. Are we really serious? What efforts are you doing and if you are failing, what are you doing about it? Why are you not learning from other countries? It goes down to the issue of enforcement again. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I saw a list of the beneficiaries, do you know that some of the people that you are giving money are not selling in RTGS yet you are giving them US dollars? Do you make a follow up to see that the funds are used appropriately? This Statutory Instrument has brought about changes. Cement was going for US$8 dollars and now it is US$11 - what has changed? You introduced a Statutory Instrument today and prices have since shot up to US$11, who is this affecting?
Secondly, the Ministry must take the money and give it to manufacturing industries. Some of the people that you are giving money are channeling it to the black market and some are importing goods into the country. The country does not benefit from importing goods into the country. The economy grows when we revive our own industries; take that money and give it to Lever Brothers so that they can revamp their business. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I would want to know from the Deputy Minister if he is aware that banks are failing to pay their clients the foreign currency they would have gotten through the auction system. This is a crisis which the Hon. Minister and his Ministry should address because you said there are people who are getting forex through the auction and abusing it, but in fact clients specifically and I will single out Stanbic; it is failing to pay its clients on time. What are they going to do? I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
(v)HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Kashiri, you are badly connected, change position.
(v)HON. KASHIRI: Welcome back from South Africa Mr. Speaker Sir. Hallo Mr. Speaker, now can you hear me? Am I audible now Mr. Speaker Sir?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Now you are clearer, yes.
(v)HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your internet connectivity is poor Hon. Kashiri. Can you give way to Hon. Molokela?
(v)HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Mr., Speaker Sir. Thank you also to the Minister for the Ministerial Statement. My question to the Hon. Minister is, is the Ministry willing to open its doors for those who have responded to the SI. The Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries is one of the associations that are in the media today saying they are seeking audience with the Ministry. Is the Ministry going to open its doors to everyone who is concerned about this Statutory Instrument and how it is going to affect their business?
HON. MBONDIAH: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the Hon. Deputy Minister is, how far are they with the decentralisation of the auction system which will see that system benefiting cross border traders, particularly women. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. The first question came from Hon. Chinyanganya. What I can say in terms of the provisions of the SI is we have got what we referred to as designated authorities. The designated authorities are and shall be determined by the Governor of the Reserve Bank. So in terms of what is provided for at the moment, we have got officers from the RBZ and officers from the Financial Intelligence Unit as designated authorities who have been…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, please take your seat Hon. Minister. Hon. Members at the corner there, I think it is Hon. Hamauswa and Hon. Musanhi, you have asked very pertinent questions which devolve on the lives of people in terms of the cost of living, so it is good that you listen carefully to the response by the Minister.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I apologise for that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. Apology accepted.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I was saying in terms of the SI, at the moment the designated authorities are officers from the RBZ and from the Financial Intelligence Unit, but the SI also provides for the RBZ to designate any other authorities to be able to look into the compliance. So at the moment when we were doing some discussions we were also looking at roping in ZIMRA and any other authorities shall be determined by the RBZ Governor as and when the need arises.
Then the Hon. Member also said the fine of $50 000 is not enough. If you checked the civil and administrative penalties as provided we said there is going to be a penalty of $50 000 or whichever is higher depending on the infringement. The $50 000 is the minimal, so it may actually be far much higher than this depending on the level of infringement.
The next question came from Hon. Nduna. Thank you so much for the questions Hon. Nduna. In terms of those who are caught on the wrong side of the law, here we are looking at two issues, the first one being violation of the Exchange Rate Act and the second one being the one of bank use. So depending on the infringement if I am to take the one for violation of exchange rules for those who are accessing funds from the auction, there is going to be a total ban from participating in the auction in addition to the civil and administrative penalties. If you had gone through the SI those who are abusing forex that is obtained from the auction markets the minimum is ZWL1 million or whichever is higher depending on the level of infringement, but in addition to that we are also looking at a total ban from participating in the auction market.
The publication of names of those accessing forex from the auction, this we have been doing but what I think is needed is the recommendation which I also got here yesterday that we should name and shame those who are abusing. Those who are getting we have been publishing, but we should also name and shame those who are involved in illicit activities after obtaining forex from the auction market.
Then the question from Hon. Mushoriwa…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just hold on Hon. Minister. Hon. Sikhala.
HON. SIKHALA: Yes, Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: When you respond, you must be on your feet Hon. Sikhala, you have to be on your feet. You are well dressed for the court process. Why not put on your tie?
HON. SIKHALA: I left it in the office and I kindly seek your indulgence for today only but I am wearing a bore tie.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is a bore tie for the court. I will indulge you for today.
HON. CHIDUWA: The question from Hon. Mushoriwa was that why would the Government want to punish those with free funds and also that were enough consultations done. Hon. Speaker, what we are dealing with here is the operation of an underground economy which has got the potential to totally destabilise the Zimbabwean economy. The use of free funds; it is something that we allowed as financial authorities and we did not sanction that free funds should be used for illegal activities. If you checked, there is no way we can have a country where there are no parallel markets.
However, it is the degree of premium that gets policy makers to be worried. I remember making a presentation here where I said, ‘what is critical for Zimbabwe is stability’. There was stability in the parallel market and there was stability in the official markets. As long as there is stability, the economy is good to go but the moment we realise that there was a movement from 1:20 in the parallel market to 1:40. Surely that movement was not as a result of economic fundamentals. Therefore, there was need for us to ensure that there is stability in the exchange rate market.
The parallel market is operating because people are looking for USD. Why would somebody with USD now want to go to the market to look for ZWL? If we are saying they want the USD to use them for importation, if they have got free funds, they. can use them directly for importation. However, the moment the free funds are now going to the parallel market and you see that the rates that are being charged are far way from what we expected in terms of international best practices…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, address the Chair and not the questioner.
HON. CHIDUWA: In terms of consultations, consultations were done but they were not as extensive as what we would have wanted. I have mentioned in the Ministerial Statement that the SI was done under Presidential powers and this is going to expire after 181 days and after that, this is where we are going to bring the two acts for amendments to this august House. I am sure from there we should be able to consult from our constituencies.
Hon. Moyo – what is the Ministry doing in terms of enforcement of SI 127 and how many abusers have been arrested and how much has been raised. This I am sure I have covered. In terms of what we are doing as a Ministry, we have sent out the designated officers on the ground. I can report that on Wednesday, we sent out officers and we came up with a long list of corporates that have abused SI 127. As of yesterday, we had started issuing tickets. At the moment I do not have the exact number. However, I can go and get the full list from FIU though we have already started issuing tickets. In terms of how much have been raised, again, I would need to get the exact figures from FIU.
Hon. Mpariwa – what are the monitoring mechanisms put in place to safeguard against abuse. I am sure I had also responded to this question. The safeguards, as I have said, we have got the civil and administrative penalties. In additions to that especially if you are looking at abuse of forex that is obtained from the auction markets, there is going to be total ban, not only for the clients but we are also taking the blame to the banks. It is the banks that go to the auction on behalf of their clients. Banks should be able to do enough due diligence, they should conduct ‘know your client’ process in order to make sure that those who are going to receive foreign currency are the ones who are going to properly use the foreign currency for production purposes.
Hon. Watson said in the terms of the current provisions as provided for by the RBZ, exporters are getting 40% of their forex. I think it is the other way round. Exporters are getting 60% and then 40% is the one that is liquidated to Zimbabwean dollar. Every economy is supposed to function. The money that you generate as an exporter is probably the money that is supposed to be used at the auction in order to assist the production processes. So, I think it is a question of making sure that the economy is functional.
However, obviously, as we do more production, these rates in terms of the ration between forex component and the ZWL component will continue to be reviewed. In Zimbabwe we are doing things far much better than what is happening in the region because if you check in other countries, you liquidate everything within 30 days. In Zimbabwe we are saying liquidation is now unlimited and then we get the 40% which we then use at the auction.
Another question came from Hon. Mavetera that what is the barometer that we are using in allocating forex and who benefits. I would want to mention to the Hon. Member that what is guiding us as a country at the moment is the National Development Strategy 1. The NDS has got 14 priorities and what is critical for Zimbabwe at the moment, if you check the pillar on macro-economic development, it speaks to production. You look at the pillar on infrastructure development and utilities. These are the pillars that are guiding us in terms of how we allocate forex. For a country to move forward, what is critical is production. We do not prioritise consumption. If you check our list, you will see that the allocations are biased towards production. So the barometer is the application and request for foreign currency for production. As long as it is for production, those are the applicants who are getting priority. This is what we do and we have got a priority list which we use and we are focusing on production.
Hon. Gonese, let those businesses access foreign currency because if we do not, this will result in shortages and what percentage of transactions have been done outside the auction? Thank you so much Hon. for the question. In terms of the initial impact of SI 127, I think we should all agree that what is happening at the moment in the market is illegal. Guided by Vision 2030, we said Zimbabwe is private sector land but we only do interventions where there is market failure. Now, what we have seen is rampant increases in prices both USD and Z$, which is not really bordering on production costs. This is bordering on greedy, profiteering and has nothing to do with production fundamentals.
Now, the Hon. Member is saying this is going to result in shortages. I would want to assure the House that we are not going to control prices. We will allow businesses to thrive and come up with their own pricing models but what is very critical in economics is effective demand. You can increase prices the way you want but what is critical is effective demand. When you have increased your prices, are people going to buy? You can only buy where there is no choice but look at how the Zimbabwe economy is dichotomised between the informal and formal sector. Price controls are not going to assist us as a country, they will take us back but as I have mentioned, there is the issue of effective demand and then the issue of import parity.
We are not banning our people from importing. I know this is going to give a strain again on the demand for forex but what I can assure you is that in the medium term, there is going to be sanity because of lack of effective demand. So Hon. Gonese, I can assure you that there are going to be changes. It happened last year and after some two to three weeks, we started to see prices going down and I can assure you that prices will go down.
Then a question from Hon. Brig. General (Rtd) Mayihlome, confidence in the banking sector as people are not depositing because we have got high charges. Let me respond to this one. At the moment, the banking sector is holding up to US$ 1,3 billion. Hon. Members, I am sure you can hear these statistics. We have US$1,3 billion sitting in the accounts of banks. This is real hard US$ cash but then we look at the other forex which is being generated from say the informal sector and even the other formal channels, it is not being banked because of high charges. We have engaged the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe.
Again, in the spirit of us not intervening in terms of what charges should be used by the banks, we have been using moral suasion to speak to the banking sector to say the charges are too high; but what they have also explained to us; is they are using outside imported banking platforms which are expensive and they would need to be paid in foreign currency. What we have also agreed with them is - why can we not have local solutions that will ensure that we do not import software. This is where we are and the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe have assured us that they are working on making use of local IT solutions but at the moment this has been reported to us and we are aware that bank charges are too high and are moving against the policy of the Government of financial inclusion where we are saying our people, our businesses and our corporates should be given the opportunity to transact through the normal banking systems.
As a Ministry, do you not have a mechanism to see who is fuelling the black market? We have got mechanisms – [AN HON. MEMBER: Are they working?] – At the moment, all transactions that are done through the banking system and through your phones are all connected to the national payment switch and we are able to see every transaction but the question now is - are we enforcing? There is a balance where we are looking at normal usage of your money versus funds that are being used to fuel illicit activities. This is what is being done by bank supervision and Financial Intelligence Unit, but obviously there is need for us to improve so that at least we have mechanisms to see transactions that are being used for black market activities.
Then the other question came from Hon. Nyabani, to say people are being given foreign currency but not using it for production purposes. When we give money, priority is given to the people who are in the production sector. We are not giving people money for consumption. We must do follow ups on those who have been given money if they are doing proper production. I think we must resolve this and do the follow ups on those who have been allocated money for production.
Hon. Hamauswa, banks are failing to access funds – what are you doing about that? It is true that we have been having a lack in terms of payments and some of the payments were even going beyond four weeks but as of last week, we had literally managed to clear the whole backlog. Some of the reasons why we delay payments is because for every application and approval that is granted, we also do some mini audits. When your application has been approved and you have done the Zim-dollar payment, we also track the money to see where it is coming from. This is where we have seen that quite a number of companies they have got runner shelf companies and have got their forex. The forex is given to a runner company which then goes to the black market to get the Zimbabwean dollars that are required at the auction. They transfer the money to the applicant and then the applicant pays RBZ but we have mechanisms of following the paper trail where the money is coming from. Sometimes because of those paper trail follow ups, there is bound to be some delays but I can assure you at the moment that we are up to date with the payment.
Hon. Molokela asked if the Ministry is going to open its doors for discussions with stakeholders. On Wednesday, I was supposed to do a breakfast meeting with CZI, ZNCC and Confederation of Zimbabwe Retailers but after we saw that there were quite a number of issues that were coming from stakeholders, we then agreed as a Ministry that let us postpone this breakfast meeting so that we can do it the following week. I can assure you that next week, we are going to have a breakfast meeting which is open to all stakeholders so that we can discuss this as stakeholders.
Then the last one from Hon. Mbondia – how far will the system ensure that we also benefit cross border traders especially women. We have got a dual auction which is covering big and small businesses. There is the auction market for SMEs and this is where most of our cross borders are. The cross borders are catered for as long as they comply. In terms of compliance, they should have their invoices from wherever they are importing from, they go to their bank and the bank is going to apply for forex on their behalf. We are already doing this. These are the responses that I have Hon. Speaker Maam. I thank you.
(v)HON. SARUWAKA: My question is a follow up coming as a result of the response where he said one of the policies they are going to employ to arrest the abuse of forex is to name and shame the perpetrators. Why would they want to name and shame instead of name and arrest?
HON. NDEBELE: Numbers or figures do not lie. The Minister said that he is at a vantage point where he is able to pick accounts that are possibly involved in aiding the black market. I would like to check what it is that is stopping him from arresting the people that run those accounts. Is it because they are politically exposed persons who happen to be on the right side of Government?
From his entire speech, I picked that it would be difficult to totally exterminate the black-market. I represent the ordinary man in Magwegwe and the difficulties arise from dual pricing that is arising from exchange rate differences between the black market rate and the auction rate. What is the Minister doing effectively to protect the ordinary consumer from the hazards brought about by these differences?
When the gentleman at Treasury starts shoving down Statutory Instruments using Presidential decrees, we get worried as parliamentarians because all the time, if you check our history when the Presidential Temporary Powers Act is used as a vehicle to bring in laws, these laws always bring difficulties to our citizens. If I take you back to the Robert Mugabe era, we stood in this House and told them that the bond note will not stand the test of time in terms of being equated to the USD at the rate of 1:1 and that came to pass. When you see them doing this, very soon they shall come round to raid our nostro accounts. About 24 months ago, they almost killed us because even for SMEs, they were going to take away our USDs. I am appealing to the Minister to assure this House as well as the nation that our nostro accounts remain safe – they will not be raiding our accounts once again.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to add a few words to the Statement by the Minister. I came across the beneficiaries of the USD auction money. I heard you saying you are giving money to the people who are in the production sector. I deal with the companies which are noticed on that auction because I am a retailer. These are the likes of Jarani and OK. If we put more theories on the economy, it does not work properly. For the country to move forward and develop economically, let us give the foreign currency to the milling companies, manufacturers of detergents. What are the companies like OK we are giving money to manufacturing? The OK, TM and Jarani are the ones benefiting at the expense of the producers. Hon. Minister, this has affected the rural people and has great impact. Maybe it does not have great impact in Harare where you stay but in the rural areas, it has negatively impacted on people. The rate of 84 only applies on the book but the rates on the ground in rural areas are at 160, 170. May you prioritise production companies when allocating money at the auction so that we can have commodities at affordable prices. Products are not going to be cheap by giving forex to retailers like OK and TM who are going to buy their products from South Africa. If you want the USD and the Zimbabwean dollar to be at 1:1 rate, give the money to the manufacturing companies. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, I would want to go back on to the issue of the SI which the Minister is talking about, specifically pertaining to agriculture. My concern remains that we are at the peak of the tobacco buying season where a lot of USD are flying into the country and we have an exchange rate of 85:1 going to the farmers yet the inputs for next year have been priced, and you can go to any shop, at roughly 120. My question is, surely the Reserve Bank, the Ministry or ZIMRA can link up the bidding for money and the cost of the importation and the markup of the documents on the importation documents. This has been done in the past before and I do not know why it is not being done now and you have to equate that importation document before you can bid again. That is the simple way of killing the black market.
My question goes further now because the Minister stated that competition is good. We finished the tobacco season and we then go into the maize buying and maize marketing season since we have had a bumper harvest. Are we guaranteed that the exchange will remain the same when we buy the maize crop? The reason being, the maize farmers for the first time in a long time, have got a reasonable crop. Will they be able to access funds to import at the exchange rate that is being laid out at the moment so that they can buy capital items for the next crop. Can the Minister guarantee, secondly on the maize crop, farmers that they will indeed be paid within five days? If you wait for a month and above, you have no idea what the exchange rate is going to do. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, the Hon. Minister has spoken of publication of those that would have accessed forex on the auction market. Could that proliferate or cascade down to the constituencies? I am alive to the fact that places like PUMA Garage, ZUVA Service Station, have never sold their fuel in RTGS form. Does this mean those companies have never accessed forex for them to sell their fuel in RTGS form? At least there is ENGEN Service Station – it keeps selling in RTGS sometimes. Can he make sure it comes down so that the electorate in Chegutu can police some of these delinquent and deviant unscrupulous business people who are accessing the scarce commodity using arbitrage to make sure they fatten their pockets?
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to raise two questions to the Minister to help us understand how the auction system is working. When they are giving USD to the manufacturers, we want to know whether manufacturers are then selling their products in local currency since they will be getting the money from the auction. If they are going to sell their products again in USD, it means there is some sort of a double dipping where they will be selling their products in USD yet they go and get forex claiming that they would want to use it for production.
The other question is, how are they selecting manufacturers who are getting forex for producing their goods? Are they really sure that they need forex? For example, if we have a milling company in Zimbabwe which buys mealie-meal from GMB using RTGS, why should that company require forex? We would like the Minister to explain to this House whether the companies that are claiming to be in need of forex for production purposes really deserve those monies in forex. What exactly are they buying from outside in terms of inputs which require forex? If they manage to address those issues, we will have a situation whereby the forex would be directed towards production and all the goods would be priced in local currency because all the manufacturers would be able to get their money through the auction system. If the auction system is not able to supply the manufacturers, we will continue to have this problem. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. When I raised the question of increase in prices, the Minister responded by saying it is a choice for a consumer to buy those commodities whose prices would have increased. I would like to think that is not true. We have basic commodities which people cannot live without, for example, mealie-meal, sugar, cooking oil has gone up. Some of those commodities are produced locally and we have also medication which has gone up. Is Government going to subsidise those basic commodities since the Minister has said it is a choice if you want to buy at a higher price. I thank you.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would want the Hon. Minister to clarify one issue. There has been a coincidence, the issuance of the Statutory Instrument 127 and the going out in the market by the RBZ to secure $300 million on one year tenure. Hon. Minister, I want clarification because there is a general feeling that the S.I 127 may be a ploy for the Government to secure foreign currency at a cheaper rate and then abandon the Statutory Instrument 127 on expiry after six months.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let me start by responding to the question raised by Hon. Saruwaka, that we said we are going to name and shame. Naming and shaming is a proposal which came in this august House and I said it is a good proposal. The naming and shaming will not stop us from imposing civil and administrative penalties.
At the moment, what is provided for in the Statutory Instrument is just civil and administrative penalties. Remember, there is literally no difference between S.I 127 and S.I 185. All these things that we are talking about now are all provided for in S.I 185 but the only difference is compliance. So, we are going to do both imposition of civil and administrative penalties in addition to considering the proposals for naming and shaming.
There was a question from Hon. Ndebele. I would want to thank Hon. Ndebele because he is the one who made the proposal yesterday that we should have a Ministerial Statement. I think this has assisted us in raising quite a number of issues with regards to S.I 127. He said figures do not lie. In terms of what he submitted, S.I 185 and the abuse of forex at the auction, what was there before S.I 127 was; we would identify that there is an abuser of forex. We red flag their accounts, we close accounts or even ban them from participating in the auction but it would only go for 14 days. After 14 days, we would then open and they would go back to the auction. Now, because of the civil penalties that are there, and also the issue of banning, I think this is going to assist us to arrest all those who are abusing the forex market.
In terms of extermination of the premium between the black market and the official, at the moment in terms of where we are as a country, what we can only do is to reduce the premium between the black market and the official. Obviously, in terms of policy for us, what we would want is a situation where there is total convergence between the black market rate and the auction rate. However, in terms of the reality that is on the ground at the moment, what we can only do is to come up with policies that are going to narrow the gap between the black market and the official market.
Now, since that premium is going to remain, the question is - what is going to happen to the ordinary consumer who is in the rural area when the black market rate is being used for pricing purposes? Where the premium between the black market and the official rate is very small, the difference is normally not felt because of competition. This is why we are saying there should be a reduced premium between the black market and the official market.
In terms of the other issues that he mentioned, the Presidential Powers were effectively used to protect the national interests of this country; to protect the economic interests of Zimbabwe and there is no ill intention other than to protect Zimbabweans and the economic interests of the country.
In terms of us as Treasury authorities, there is no going back in terms of the policy trajectory. We are not going to interfere with the nostro accounts of individuals and corporates. This is the assurance I am giving Hon. Members and the nation, that their accounts are not going to be touched. What we would want is; let us operate within the confines of the law.
On exchange rates; it does not make sense for one to have millions of useless dollars. Exchange rate can be any figure but what is needed is stability to allow businesses to plan. Our challenge is; we are having business persons, not entrepreneurs. We are interested in big figures that do not mean anything. This is why you see that we have got a challenge.
We can have any exchange rate. We can increase the exchange rate today - 1:200; 1:300; 1:400 but that is not going to generate forex. We can only generate forex through production. So, it is very important for Zimbabweans to understand this fundamental point. Stability works for all of us. Corporates have been reporting good results and all of them were saying the good results are anchored in the stability that we got from the Transitional Stabilisation Programme. Why would corporates be involved in illicit and black market things that are going to destabilise the very market which is giving them profits? I think this is where we need a total reboot of the business-mind so that at least we know that it is not the figure that is important but stability.
There is a question from Hon. Nyabani. We are talking the same language. *He said priority should be given to those who do production. He also asked the criteria used to come up with the priority list for those in the same sector. When companies come to the auction floor, they come with their rate. A company can come and say I want to sell my money with a rate of USD1 is to ZD90 and someone says I want to sell with USD1 is to 100. If they are all for production, we consider the one who has come with a higher rate and this is how this auction works. So you can see that we encourage that farmers come with their own rates. This is how that Dutch system works; but in terms of the rate which is the price discovery, we use the weighted average. However, I want to assure Hon. Members that we are focusing on production. If I use the example that you have used, I might not know how they do it, but companies like OK have some of its branches which does repackaging and so on which is part of the value chain as provided for in the National Development Strategy 1 under local beneficiation.
Hon. Markham said the rate is not going to promote production and can you guarantee that as we pay our farmers, they are going to be able to buy inputs and also the issue of us continuing to pay farmers within the announced five days. Can you guarantee that? Hon. Member, the policy as provided under the S.I. 127 is actually meant to protect farmers. When we say we should have a predictable official exchange rate, this is promoting farmers. So where we have got the official exchange rate which at the moment is stable, it should allow farmers to plan immediately for the next summer season. I can attest and assure you that what the Government is putting forward here is meant to protect our farmers. This will allow our farmers to go back and till the land, come summer season for 2022.
In terms payments, we have religiously paid all our farmers. We are very happy that we have got a bumper harvest. Just this May, we were expecting around 54 000 metric tons but we got more than double that and we are very religious on payments. Our farmers are happy and we are paying within the five days. The only problem that we are having is that we have got some farmers that do not have bank accounts and even cell phone accounts. We have engaged our stakeholders to make sure that farmers have bank accounts, cell phone accounts where we can transfer the money to, which is part of our policy on financial inclusion.
Hon. Nduna, those accessing foreign currency from auction should charge in ZD and let it be ferried down there in Chegutu. It is true what the Hon. Member submitted that if it is a service station or a certain company that is dealing in petroleum products when they access foreign currency from the auction, they should charge in ZWD and where they are charging in foreign currency, it should be at the ruling auction rates. This is what the S.I is saying, that when you access foreign currency from the auction market, charge both in ZWD and in foreign currency.
The question from Hon. Hamauswa was a point of clarity. He wanted to know if manufacturers will sell in ZWD and how they are selecting those. This again is more or less the same question as the one for Hon. Nduna that when manufacturers access foreign currency from the auction floor, they should charge both in ZWD and in foreign currency and the ZWD price should be at the ruling auction rate. This is what is provided for in S.I. 127. In terms of selection, we have mentioned that what is guiding us is the provision of the National Development Strategy 1, where we are prioritising production. The priority list is for those who are involved in production and when we pull together those who are in production we are going to be guided by the bid range. Those with the highest bid will get the allocations first. We are also guided to make sure that the allocations is being done for bonafide manufacturers by the invoices that are provided - but again, because of some of weaknesses that are in the system, this is why you find out that some of the manufacturers end up using the money not for the intended purpose.
Hon. Chinyanganya, there is what we call effective demand and this only happens when the consumers are willing and able to pay. You may be willing and do not have the ability to pay, it is not effect demand. We go to the basic commodities this is where you said there is a problem because it is basic. It is true that we can have challenges where we are dealing with basic commodities that sometimes we do have the choice and this is why we have this intervention that we brought today. As Government we should make sure that we are on the ground and enforce S.I. 127. Are we going to have subsidies – going forward as provided for in Vision 2030, the police thrust of the Government is to move away from subsidies but in cases where there is need for social protection, we will intervene in the form of subsidies.
At the moment, we have got quite a number of safety nets that are there. If you go to the rural areas, we are having social welfare and in the urban areas we are also doing cash transfers, but to have blanket subsidies as a result of the short-term impact of S.I. 127, this is out. What we will do as Government is to ensure that we are going to enforce S.I. 127 in terms of compliance.
The last question is from Hon. Mushoriwa where he mentioned something about RBZ securing funds and after that we are going to abandon S.I. 127. One of the areas that we have consistently worked on as Government is policy consistency. Policy consistency that is critical for the development of this country in terms of our re-engagement efforts and in terms of having investors. So I would want to allay the Hon. Member’s fears that what he thinks is going to happen is not going to happen. We are very clear in terms of what we are doing as monetary authorities and as Government. So I would want to assure the Hon. Member that we are not going to abandon S.I. 127. We will make sure that at the end of the six months, we are going to review the situation and most likely bring the two Acts for amendment here in Parliament. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Thank you very much Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development for the great presentation on S.I. 127. I think I should also take this opportunity to thank you for being so prompt, very responsive and quite timely. Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We revert to business of the day.
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: We do not adjourn debate for any Ministerial Statement. That is why I said we are going to go to the business of the day.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. T. MOYO: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 18 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 19 has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT ON THE PETITION ON FEES INCREASES IN TERTIARY EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move this motion which is a Committee report in the name of Hon. Maphosa That this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development on the Petition on Fees Increases in Tertiary Education Institutions. (S. C. 13, 2021)
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I second.
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am. The portfolio Committee on Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development is presenting a report on the petition of fees increase …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Moyo, may you please approach the Chair.
Hon. T. Moyo approached the Chair.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move that the Committee Report be stood over and we revert to Order of the Day Number 12.
HON. DR. LABODE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order! Madam Speaker, I just want to reiterate, how is the Business of the House being organised? We do not seem to have a proper system of running business these days. What is happening?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I do not know if you have a way that you think you can propose for us because the way that we are running it is the proper way.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: No, but Madam Speaker, look at this issue. We have a situation where the Acting Chief Whip moves to go to Order of the Day Number 18. Then all of a sudden we are going to Order of the Day Number 12, I think that in terms of priority, we should be saying, on a day, if Government Business is not there, then we should deal with the other Orders of Day so that at least we dispose of the other Orders of the Day that are at the top of the Order Paper.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa that is exactly what we are doing. Thank you very much.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE JOINT PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILD CARE AND THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND AIDS ON THE PETITION FROM ADVOCACY CORE TEAM ON THE AGE OF CONSENT TO ACCESSING REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE SERVICES BY ADOLESCENTS AND YOUNG PERSONS IN ZIMBABWE
HON. SAIZI: Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my
name That this House takes note of the Report of the Joint Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Thematic Committee on HIV and Aids on the Petition from Advocacy Core Team on the Age of Consent to Accessing Reproductive Healthcare Services by Adolescents and Young Persons in Zimbabwe.
HON. DR. LABODE: I second.
HON. SAIZI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me just go straight to the report itself.
Introduction
Pursuant to Section 149 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, the Advocacy Core Team (ACT) petitioned Parliament of Zimbabwe on the age of consent to accessing reproductive health care services by adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe. Accordingly, the petition was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS for consideration. Thus, the Joint Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS considered the petition and resolved to inquire into the issues raised in the petition. This report is a summary of key findings on the enquiry into the subject matter.
Objectives
The objectives of the enquiry were:
- To assess the level of access to reproductive health care services for adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe;
- To understand the legal frameworks that support or hinder the provision of reproductive health care services for adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe;
iii. To appreciate the barriers to accessing reproductive health care services by adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe;
- To get first hand experiences and feedback from the public on the access to reproductive health care services for adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe; and
- To solicit for public views and recommendations for improved reproductive health care services for adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe.
Methodology
Due to the exigencies of COVID-19 pandemic, the Joint Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS received separate oral evidence submissions from the petitioners, the Advocacy Core Team on the 1st and 14th of September 2020 respectively. The oral submissions were aimed at explaining in detail the issues that were raised in the petition.
On the 28th of September 2020, the Joint Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS held an oral evidence meeting with the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care, General (Rtd.) Dr. C.G.D.N Chiwenga on the subject matter. The purpose of the meeting was to afford the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care the opportunity to respond to issues that were raised in the petition.
The Joint Committees considered the oral submissions from both the Advocacy Core Team and the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care. Thereafter, they resolved to conduct public hearings in selected areas in the ten provinces of the country from 9th to 12th November 2020. This was meant to solicit for public views on the subject matter. Accordingly, the Joint Committees split into three (3) teams as tabulated below.
Team 1
Date | Place | Venue | Time of Public
Hearing |
09/11/2020 | Hwange | Lwendulu Hall | 1100hrs-1300hrs |
10/11/2020 | Bubi | Tatazela Hall Inyathi | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
10/11/2020 | Nkayi | Agape Mission | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
11/11/2020 | Gwanda | Gwanda Hotel | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
11/11/2020 | Plumtree | Plumtree Community Hall | 1430hrs-1630hrs |
12/11/2020 | Bulawayo | Nkulumane Hall | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
12/11/2020 | Bulawayo | Pumula South Hall | 1400hrs- 1600hrs |
Team2
Date | Place | Venue | Time of Public Hearing |
09/11/2020 | Wedza | Wedza Sunshine Inn | 1000hrs-1200hrs |
09/11/2020 | Marondera | Mbuya Nehanda Hall | 1430hrs-1630hrs |
10/11/2020 | Bindura | Chipadze Hall | 1000hrs-1200hrs |
10/11/2020 | Mt Darwin | Mt Darwin Community Hall | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
11/11/2020 | Karoi | Chikangwe Community Hall | 1000hrs-1200hrs |
11/11/2020 | Chinhoyi | Cooksey Hall | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
12/11/2020 | Chitungwiza | UNIT L Hall | 1000hrs-1200hrs |
12/11/2020 | Harare | City Sports Centre | 1430hrs-1630hrs |
Team 3
09/11/2020 | Gokwe | Gokwe Community Hall | 1030hrs-1230hrs |
10/11/2020 | Gweru | Mkoba Hall | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
10/11/2020 | Gweru | Gweru Main Theatre Hall | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
11/11/2020 | Masvingo | Mucheke Hall | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
11/11/2020 | Bikita | Better Schools Program Nyika Hall | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
12/11/2020 | Mutare | Sakubva BeitHall | 0900hrs-1100hrs |
12/11/2020 | Rusape | Vengere 602 Hall Makoni | 1400hrs-1600hrs |
3.4 In addition, the Joint Committees also received written submissions via email and Webinar platforms. The public hearings were funded by Parliament in conjunction with the National AIDS Council with its Strategic Partners namely: Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UNAIDS), United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) and World Health Organisation (WHO).
Petitioners’ Prayer
In the petition, the Advocacy Core Team was beseeching Parliament to consider amendments to the relevant legislations that ensure all adolescents and young persons under the age of 18 years can consent to accessing reproductive health services by ensuring that:
- The Public Health Act of 2018 is amended to provide that there should be no age restrictions on accessing Reproductive Health Care Services by persons aged 12 years and above, and these services include: HIV testing, pre and post counseling, access to contraceptives and other pregnancy prevention management services for adolescents and young people; and to ensure that there are proper administrative measures to monitor and provide Reproductive Health Rights for persons aged 12 years and above.
- The Children Justice Bill is enacted to provide for access to reproductive health services for adolescents and young people aged 12 years and above;
iii. All other appropriate legislations are amended to ensure consistency among policies guaranteeing access to critical and often life saving health care services for adolescents and young people.
Summary of Submissions
EVIDENCE FROM ORAL SUBMISSIONS
Access to Reproductive Health Care Services among Adolescents: The requirement of Consent as a Barrier.
Unpacking the petition to the Joint Committees, the Advocacy Core Team explained that the petition does not seek to adjust the age of consent to sexual behaviour or the minimum age of marriage, hence this should not be linked to the age at which adolescents can access reproductive health information, education and services.
The Advocacy Core Team argued that:
In spite of Sections 76 and 81 (f) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe guaranteeing everyone the right to health care services including Reproductive Health Care Services (RHS), the setting of legal minimum age with which an adolescent can access RHS without parental or third party consent has created a barrier for adolescents to effectively access these services.
For instance, reference was made to Section 35 of the Public Health Act of 2018 and the National HIV Testing Guidelines of 2014 which limit the age to accessing Reproductive Health Care Services to 16 years.
The Advocacy Core Team also cited the National Adolescents and Youth Sexual Reproductive Health Strategy II, 2016-2020 (ASRH Strategy II) as the Government of Zimbabwe’s guiding document for the provision of Reproductive Health Care Services for adolescents and youths. They stated that the ASRH Strategy II targets the age groups between 10-24 years and advocates for Reproductive Health Care Services for adolescents to be provided in a youth friendly way.
During the oral session held on the 28th of September 2020, the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care concurred that Section 76 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe guarantees health for everyone including Reproductive Health Care Services. He also confirmed the existence of the National Adolescents and Youth Sexual Reproductive Health Strategy II, 2016-2020 (ASRH Strategy II) but emphasized that the ASRH Strategy II is premised on-age appropriate sexual reproductive health information and services. Furthermore, the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care confirmed the existence of the National HIV Testing Guidelines of 2014 which limits the age to access these services to 16 years.
However, the Advocacy Core Team further argued that the requirement of consent is also limiting health care service providers from effectively attending to adolescents when providing reproductive health care services due to inadequate legal protection where services are rendered without the legal consent. The petitioners implored the Joint Committees to consider legislation that protects health care service providers and third parties from liability where they provide reproductive health-care services or consent to provision of such services in matters involving persons below the age of 16.
The Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care asserted that:
Ideally, individuals with the capacity to consent should be allowed to do so, no matter what their age. Assessment of capacity however, is rarely straight forward for adolescents. Capacity to consent requires the ability to communicate a choice, to understand the options, to reason effectively about these options, and to make an un-coerced decision... Active involvement of a concerned and capable parent is the best possible situation for sexually active adolescents… Parents are presumed to be competent decision makers. They have legal and financial duties to care for children including adolescents…
The Advocacy Core Team further purported that the restrictions have resulted in a public health concern in matters relating to the increasing spread of HIV and STIs among adolescents, unplanned parenthood, illegal termination of pregnancies, and the perpetual vulnerability of adolescents, in particular the girl child. To buttress their case, the Advocacy Core Team presented the following statistics:
The national teenage pregnancy rate was at 22%;
- Studies show a general lack of comprehensive information and knowledge about reproductive health-care services (RHS) among adolescents and according to Zimbabwe Demographic Health Survey, 2015 (ZDHS 2015), only 41% of boys and girls in the 15-19 age groups have sufficient knowledge or information on reproductive health;
- Zimbabwe has one of the highest maternal mortality in the region and 15% of these are among adolescents and young people,
- AIDS is the leading cause of death among adolescents and is the cause of an increase of 50% in adolescent mortality giving negative RHS outcomes according to the World Health Organization (WHO);
- According to the progress report on the 90-90-90 Global fast track targets on HIV, 48% of young people in Zimbabwe do not know their HIV status as they need parental consent. One of the key contributors to this outcome is the age of consent for accessing SRHR, HIV and AIDS services as there is no law that explicitly define the age of consent for accessing SRH services.
5.1.9 Causes of Early Sexual Activity among Adolescents
The Advocacy Core Team attributed the causes of early sexual behaviour to:
- Modern Food and Diet;
- Peer Influence/Pressure;
- Social Context; Technology-Internet,
- TV and Globalisation of Western Culture;
- Parental Behaviour—some parents are absent from their homes in pursuance of jobs while others subscribe to religious sects that promote child marriages;
- Reduction in Abstinence Messaging;
- Genetics – (may be subset of Modern Food and technology); and
- “Coercion.”
On the same note, the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care singled out poverty as the key driver to early sexual behaviour among adolescents in Zimbabwe. He therefore, emphasised that key issues to be addressed are the underlying causes of early sexual activity like poverty, school drop-outs and orphanhood.
Evidence Gathered During the Public Hearings
It is imperative to state on the onset that young women, adolescents and youths were mostly in support of the petition while older women, men and religious leaders formed majority of the resenting voice.
Key drivers of early sexual behaviour among young people
Submissions that were made during the public hearings also spoke to some of the issues that were presented to the Joint Committees during the oral evidence meetings with the Advocacy Core Team and the Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care. These include the key drivers to early sexual behaviour among adolescents and young people in Zimbabwe and barriers that restrict access to the SRHR services by adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe. It was higlighted that the diverse nature of young people affects their sexual behaviour. The categories mentioned were namely: orphaned children, child-headed families, children on the streets, children in school, children out of school, children indulging in alcohol and drug abuse. The following is a summary of the submissions made in relation to the key drivers of early sexual behaviour:
Poverty
It was noted that economic challenges among young people in Zimbabwe and their diverse backgrounds were forcing them to eke out a living by selling sex (child prostitution).
Absence of social safety net for Exposure to technology-
Unguided use of technology was exposing children to sex related material on internet, for example pornography. Consequently, children were tempted to experiment on what they see.
Alcohol and drug abuse—It was submitted that Vuzu parties were rampant in Bulawayo and other parts of the country where adolescents and young persons were said to be indulging in sexual behaviour.
Communication between parents and children—It was observed that there was poor or lack of communication as parents either are too busy, absent (diaspora) or think it is inappropriate to talk about sexual reproductive health issues with their children.
Lack or inadequate information on SRHR—It was observed that young people fail to make informed decisions about their SRHR needs due to lack of or inadequate information about their bodies and risks associated with indulging in early sexual behaviour.
Indiscipline—it was pointed out that deviant behavior by young people was leading them to making wrong decisions or choices on their SRHR needs.
Broken down families and social fabrics— It was submitted that families and societies were no longer as closely-knitted as they were in yester years, hence, children were now vulnerable as they are exposed to abuse from some rogue elements in both the families and societies. The submissions that were made to the Committee also revealed that most of sexual abuse cases involving children, the perpetrators are parents, guardians, close relatives or pastors and most of these cases go unreported.
Early Puberty—It was observed that early puberty may be due to inorganic food or lifestyles. Thus, as children develop physically faster than their real age, it changes how they think about themselves and how people relate to them socially. Consequently, young persons were more likely to hang out with friend older than themselves who engage in risky behaviours such as early sexual behavior and substance abuse.
Peer pressure among young people—It was noted that in the absence of appropriate guidance, children were prone to give in to pressure and to conform to what their peers do.
Barriers in Accessing SRHR Services By Adolescents and Young People
Restrictive legal framework—Public Health Act requires that a minor below the age of 16 years be accompanied by a parent or guardian when seeking health care services. It was noted that this requirement makes it difficult for young people to access SRHR services, especially in cases where the parent or guardian is a perpetrator. Further to this, there is absence of a legal framework that protects the service providers in providing SRHR services to young people.
Unfriendly services—there were concerns that service providers had a judgmental attitude towards young people who seek SRHR services and information.
Cultural and religious beliefs—It was regarded a taboo in both African culture and Christianity in general, for young people to indulge in sexual intercourse at a tender age.
User fees—it was highlighted that young people did not afford the costs associated with accessing SRHR services.
Submissions in Support of the Petition
The Committee was informed that young persons in Zimbabwe should be permitted to access healthcare services without parental consent since facts on the ground show that children are engaging in sexual acts, yet it is culturally a taboo for a child to discuss sexual matters with a parent.
Children were already exposed to a lot of misguiding sexuality information from the internet and social media and it was better to give them comprehensive sexuality education and avail Sexual Reproductive Health and Rights (SRHR) services at their disposal to safeguard them from negative consequences of bad sexuality decisions and practices. Opening up access to SRHR services would help children make informed decisions about their sexual health and avoid health hazards such as unintended pregnancy, illegal and unsafe abortions and sexually transmitted infections. It would further promote awareness of HIV/AIDS status by adolescents and the young persons in Zimbabwe.
It was submitted that upholding the Constitutional principle of “best interest of the child” first was critical since some young persons and adolescents were being sexually abused by their parents or guardians as well as close relatives. Therefore, restricting them to only accessing healthcare services with parental or guardian consent would present a conflict of interest for the perpetrator who happen to be the guardian or close relative. Consequently, the parental or guardian consent becomes an impediment to adolescents and young persons in such circumstances and may result in increasing cases of unwanted pregnancies, illegal and
It was also submitted that, the restriction on accessing health care services by adolescents imposed by Acts and policies should be amended to take into account the needs for access by children in child headed families and those that are on the streets. It was further submitted that Zimbabwe health systems should work towards achievement of Sustainable Development Goal (SDG) 3 that seeks to promote good health and wellbeing by ensuring healthy lives and promoting well-being for all at all ages.
Some members of the public submitted that promoting access to reproductive health care services for adolescents and young people in Zimbabwe without the need for parental consent would encourage young persons and adolescents to seek guidance on sexual reproductive health from the right platforms such as youth friendly corners. There were concerns that the current socio-cultural system does not provide room for adolescents to discuss with their parents about sexual reproductive health as a result they tend to seek advice or guidance from wrong platforms that can be misleading.
The Committee was also informed that there was need to amend the Public Health Act and open up access to health to protect children living with disabilities who are vulnerable to abuse and face communication barriers with health personnel too.
It was submitted that abstinence and morality messaging should continue but for those children who fail to abstain, Government should open up services and yet still prefix such assistance with proper counseling and removal of user fees. Only children that would need the services due to different circumstances are the once who should access services and it should not be mandatory.
Moreover, it was highlighted that health personnel responsible for providing healthcare services should be educated on the proper code of conduct that does not discourage adolescents and young person’s to access such services. There was need for a reliable toll free line to ease access to information. In addition, legislation that protects the health service providers should be in place to ensure effective service delivery on reproductive health care services for adolescents and young people.
Some members of public noted that SRHR is broad and is not just about sex, but covers other non-sex issues which are difficult to open up to parents like menstrual hygiene and other matters of puberty. Allowing children access to SRHR services would ensure that they get the needed help in every facet of SRHR.
Concerns were raised regarding adolescent or teenage pregnancies which promote the vicious poverty cycle involving school drop outs, child marriages and Sexual Gender Based Violence (SGBV) in society and which also condemns especially the girl child to suffering and sometimes death. It was felt that it was better to give even the so called naughty children a second chance in life and not let a sexual morality failure prescribe perpetual doom for their future.
Opening up SRHR services will help the children in need and will not promote promiscuity or errant behaviour, just like children who know where to get drugs of abuse but still choose not to use them.
Submissions opposed to the Petition
It was submitted that statistics showed that the national teenage pregnancy rate was at 22%. Additionally, Zimbabwe Demographic and Health survey in 2015 reveals that the highest percentage of teenage girl pregnancies was among 18 and 19 years of age. Of these, almost two thirds were in rural areas. It further reveals risk factors for teenage pregnancy as low level of education, living in rural areas and teenagers in the lowest wealth quintile. Against this backdrop, young persons and adolescents did not require access to sexual reproductive health services without parental or guardian consent rather they need access to education, opportunities of higher education and employment, improved protection from sexual abuse and information on reproductive health.
It was also submitted that Section 60 (3) states that parents and guardians of minor children have the right to determine, in accordance with their beliefs, the moral and religious upbringing of their children. Contrary to Section 60 (3), the petition seeks to take away the parents’ right to preside over the moral and religious upbringing of their children and a child’s right to belong and be identified with a family through values. Furthermore, the Criminal Law (Codification Reform Act) stipulates that a child below the age of 16 is not capable of consenting to sexual intercourse and it is an offense to have sex with children below that age. In their views, the petition seeks to encourage an offense that is prohibited by the criminal law of Zimbabwe.
It was further submitted that promoting access to reproductive health services for adolescents and young people in Zimbabwe without parental consent was seen as a way to encourage young persons and adolescents to indulge in immoral behaviors. Thus, they underscored the need to revive social clubs or recreational facilities that will occupy young persons and discourage idle time that leads to sexual immorality.
The Committee was also informed that some services that were being advocated for by the petition such as access to contraceptives were viewed as harmful to adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe. They therefore argued that such reproductive health services should be rendered to responsible individuals and not adolescents and young persons who are still maturing. They also proposed that a comprehensive study be conducted to ascertain the long term effects of contraceptive use by minors. They further argued that the health system was currently struggling to provide contraceptives to women in Zimbabwe, hence there was no need to increase the number of those accessing contraceptives.
Zimbabwe was regarded as a Christian state and rooted in morality and in their view, the petition suggested that our trusted religions had failed, which they totally disputed and for them, getting back to the roots and Christianity was the solution. Accepting the petition was seen as tantamount to giving up on children. Teaching children abstinence and moral righteousness were the only solution to SRHR challenges that the petition seeks to solve. It was pointed out that disobedient children should not cause change of law or be protected but face the consequences.
They also pointed out that parental guidance and protection was an integral part of our Ubuntu and children will always need their Parents support and should never be left to run their sexuality before reaching adulthood. Taking away parents’ protection from children would in their view, have detrimental implications which would lead to an immoral society.
In their view, opening up access to SRHR will result in more child exploitation, statutory rape, shortage of contraceptives, abortion on demand, rights without responsibility, collapse of family structure and spiritual bondages.
They advocated for the age of consent restriction to remain, arguing that the very fear of getting pregnant or sick would ensure that children abstain and remain safe; but once they get access to SRHR services on their own, they will be tempted to indulge.
Joint Committees’ Observations
The Joint Committees made the following observations on the submissions received on the petition:
In spite of the diverse nature of adolescents and young people in Zimbabwe which brings about differences in their SRHR needs, they do not have access to reproductive healthcare services.
Although Section 76 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides for healthcare services, including reproductive healthcare services for every citizen, the Public Health Act of 2018 restricts age of consent to access the same to 16 years. Furthermore, there is no law or policy that protects the service providers when they provide the SRHR services to adolescents and young people in Zimbabwe.
Apart from the restrictive legal framework, culture, religion and the judgmental attitudes of the service providers act as barriers impeding adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe from accessing SRHR services.
The Education Amendment Act allows pregnant girls to be in school yet provision of SRHR services is restricted to 16 years.
Most young women, adolescents and youths who participated during the public hearings were in support of the petition while older women, men and religious leaders formed majority of the resenting voice.
While parents/guardians, culture and religion play a very important role in the upbringing of children, statistics have shown that adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe are indulging in early sexual intercourse when they are ill-prepared for the risks associated with such behavior, hence the petition to Parliament.
Some of the young people could not express their opinions freely in the presence of their elders and religious leaders during the public hearings.
There was an outstanding misconception that the petition sought to lower the age of consent to sex and promote mandatory distribution of contraceptives to all children.
Despite the divergent views, there remained a unanimous agreement on the gravity of the Sexual Reproductive Health and Rights matter as raised in the petition. However, it was on the solutions that the submissions would differ.
Considerable number of participants, especially those against the petition attested to lacking appreciation of the petition’s contents. A consequently, they had misconceptions from social media and other lobby groups thus; the committee had to intervene to clarify its mission more often. As is the case with most parliament hearings, majority of people in the grassroots did not get a copy of the document under discussion ahead of the meetings.
Despite it not being the core of the petition, there was an overwhelming support for harmonisation of ages of consent to sex and marriage at 18 years.
Joint Committees’ Recommendations
Flowing from the above observations, the Joint Committees recommend the following:
Adolescents are not a homogenous group of people, hence the MoHCC should provide case by case assessment of this diverse group in order to provide for their varying SRHR needs, especially the at-risk adolescents and young person’s by December 2021.
The MoHCC should amend Section 35 of the Public Health Act to provide SRHR services for young people under the age of 18 years and provide for the protection of the service providers by June 2022. Furthermore, service providers should be trained on how to provide friendly SRHR services to adolescents and young person’s by April 2022.
The MoHCC should embark on awareness campaigns on SRHR issues for young persons in Zimbabwe by August 2022. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and MoHCC should immediately ensure that pregnant girls in school access SRHR services without difficulties.
MoHCC should ensure that adolescents and young persons friendly corners are established where it is convenient for them to access the SRHR services by June 2022.
The custodians of culture and religion should not tire in strengthening their systems in the upbringing of children and should continue to preach the abstinence message in order to instill moral values in children.
The Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation should provide recreational facilities for adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe in order to occupy themselves reasonably by December 2022.s
The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should allocate substantial budget to the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare in the 2022 National Budget to enable it to provide the social protection measures for the vulnerable adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe in meeting their financial needs.
The Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should immediately expedite the amendment of relevant legislations to provide for more deterrent sentences to perpetrators of child sexual abuse or rapists or child sexual exploitation.
Conclusion
Despite the divergent views on the most appropriate course of action to take, it is evident that the issues that were raised by the Advocacy Core Team in their petition were lived realities in the communities of Zimbabwe. Adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe are indulging in early sexual behaviour and what drives them into this varies depending on circumstances. What is worrying are the undesirable consequences associated with this risk behavior, which the prayer of the petition attempts to address. It is, therefore, important for the Ministry of Health and Child Care to ensure that access to SRHR services by adolescents and young persons in Zimbabwe is accommodative to cater for them in their diverse nature. I thank you.
HON. DR. LABODE: I will start by putting a disclaimer that the report has no intention of discussing the age of consent to sex. There was a feeling that the petition was about age of consent to sex and age of consent to marriage – the disclaimer is that it was not about that. It was about a youth or an adolescent accessing sexual reproductive health services.
I will touch on one of the challenges that we actually face but before I do that, I need to take all of us back to our Constitution. Section 76 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe reads: “Every citizen and permanent resident of Zimbabwe has a right to have access to basic health-care services, including reproductive health-care services”. We then go to the Public Health Act which says; “For the purpose of this section, informed consent to accessing health services means consent for the provision of specified health services given by a person with legal right to do so. How do we then offer services? We have decided that you must have a legal capacity and we know that legal capacity is 18 years of age.
How do we move to that when we have statistics like one in five teenagers are pregnant before the age of 18? That, Madam Speaker means that, one in five young girls below the age of 18 are having sex, whether we like it or not. They are not being impregnated by demons, no. They are having sex and they are getting pregnant and one in three girls find themselves in a child marriage before the age of 18 and we sit here in this Parliament and say we have got a law that is against child marriages. They are getting married because they are pregnant. They are getting pregnant because they cannot access health services. The law says you cannot go and access services. The same Constitution turns and says at the age of 16, you can have sex. If I have sex, can I not get pregnant? I will get pregnant, I will get an STD, I will get HIV and if I reach that stage, I may have to make a decision. Do I keep this pregnancy and find somebody to marry me or do I keep this pregnancy and hope I will deliver safely which is not a guarantee or do I go for illegal abortion so that I remove that pregnancy.
Statistics show that we have very high rates of unsafe abortion and a very high incident of HIV among the youths. Remember Madam Speaker that Zimbabwe is signatory to the SDGs 90, 90, 90, meaning that by the time we reach 2030, we would have achieved certain goals. We had ensured that 95% of Zimbabweans know their status, 95% of Zimbabweans are on treatment and reduce mortality but the way we are heading because we want to pretend that these things are not happening, we have put ourselves in such a difficult situation. Here is one, there was mention of religious and cultural issues. It is because Zimbabweans, we are hypocrites. We are burying our heads in the sand, pretending that the current epidemic – it is as if an epidemic of teenage pregnancies is not a problem. It is a problem. It is destroying girls’ and boys’ lives because if a boy who is 15 impregnates somebody you must marry them. It is destroying their lives. We hide behind our cultural values, yet if we look back, our grandmothers got married when they were only 14, 15, 16 years of age. I do not know who is turning around saying it is a cultural taboo. It is not a cultural taboo. It became a taboo now. When our grandparents were getting married they were young and so it is not a taboo.
We also hide behind religion. I brought a Bible Madam Speaker to tell you that it is not true. In John 8, when the Pharisees brought a woman who was adulterous to him and said, ‘this woman is adulterous. According to Moses’ law, we must stone her. Jesus knelt down and was drawing something and then he said to them, those of you who have not sinned, throw the stone’. They all disappeared. He is a good and forgiving God. If there is a problem, we must deal with it. Let us not hide behind the Bible. In Hebrews, you find the first patriarchs. Do you know one of the first patriarchs is Rahab? A prostitute who served the people sent by Joshua to survey an area and she is in the Bible as the Patriarch of faith. Why did Jesus not judge her? Who are we? The very churches we are talking about girls are getting pregnant in the churches and we want to keep quiet. We want to pretend all of us to say this is not happening. This is happening. Children are having sex and we do not want to accuse anybody. We are saying let us help them, that is what we want to do.
He also brought out the issue of poverty. That over archs everything. Poverty has laid separation of parents to diaspora leaving children here on their own. That is where these boozy parties happen. You leave a child in a nice house in town and when weekend comes, the friends say let us come to your house and drink and they start the boozy party. The boozy party is about alcohol and sex. They have lost the understanding of sex. You have the media and a lot of children who have no parents and they open whatever.
They open an SABC and what do they see there? They see people shaking their backs and say John Vuli igedi nansi i-stoko and you expect children to be normal when they come out of there. They also continue doing the John vuli igedi. Zimbabwe has good policies. I told you we are hypocrites because while the law says you cannot access services without your parent, if a child of 14 today in Zimbabwe went to the National Family Planning Council and said they wanted contraceptives, they question them. Are you married? If you say yes you are given. If you say no, they say are you having sex. If you say yes they give it to you. We like doing things behind the back.
We lack bold men and women who can stand up and say let us change the law. That we cannot do but we are doing these things. Go to National Aids Council, because of the challenge of young children becoming positive, they decided to put a policy which is contrary to the law. It says, ‘If the service provider should be the one to assess your maturity to be able to understand or to be tested…’. That maturity which is being used in family planning and other places should be what we have in our documents, in our Constitution and in our Act. Indeed the child decides to go and have sex on her own. She does not consult anybody. Because she decides, when she has got an STD, allow her to decide to go and get treatment or when she decides to have sex, allow her on her own to go and get prevention. We tend to feel that our children are too young and I understand that I am a grandmother and a mother. I understand exactly how people emotionally feel but let us face the fact and that we need to do.
Zimbabwe is also a signatory to a lot of international commitments for global solutions. We have the ICPD25. The ICPD25 is a document which is in the custody of the Minister of Finance. It was signed by Prof. Mtuli Ncube. This document is Zimbabwean specific commitment for a sexual reproductive health. It was presented in Nairobi on behalf of Zimbabwe. It was yours truly, Hon. Kwaramba and Hon. Priscilla who went with this document. The Minister could not go because it was the time of Budget. Ideally, other countries, the document was presented by Ministers and Heads of State. The document is very clear. It says, Zimbabwe shall endeavour to ensure that the adolescent access, comprehensive, information and quality timely service. That is what we said. We said this yet we knew we have this animal called Section 35 in the Public Health Act. We need to deal with that. We know what we need to do but we just do not have the guts or we are thinking that there is a sin somewhere. I do not think there is a sin, we are helping our children. If we present such documents and this document is what brings into the country the US$16 million that buys contraceptives for Zimbabweans. As a country, we do not put a cent. The US$16 million came from these commitments.
We had to defend this in Nairobi, to say that is what we are going to do. When they were asking us - how are you going to do it when you have got this “chimutemo,” we said ‘no, we will go and amend so that we get the money’. So, please let us start now doing the right things properly.
I wanted also just to refer to some documents. The Zimbabwe National Family Planning Council has a strategy. The strategy is very clear. It just says we shall offer. Meeting the sexual and reproductive health and rights needs of the young people is a challenge in Zimbabwe. Despite several recent initiatives, youth friendly reproductive and sexual services, the youths still cannot access the available services because of the law. If we actually pass a law that says anybody below the age of 18 can access health services, they will then go “kuzvikoro” to say once you start sex, you should do this. They cannot do it because what they are doing right now to give the youths some contraceptives is actually just trying to be humans to protect these youths.
There is this Zimbabwe National Family Concept Plan. I thought I should bring this to this House because it is important for us to understand that the $16 million we were getting is part of the 167 million pounds that Britain and other countries were putting into UNFPA to purchase contraceptives for African and Asian countries and probably Central America. Our share was $16 million. However, that $16 million was not calculated properly because one of the ingredient we need is a variable. You were basing your calculation of your needs on the people who are 18 years up to 50 years yet we have the 18 and below who are also consuming illegally from that load. So, it is important that we are helping the Zimbabwe National Family Planning Council which is a Government entity to calculate properly if they have the right law. It is what we intend to do because the British Government has decided to actually withdraw those donor funds.
It even becomes more important for us to be able to argue that we now have an increased number of people who will need contraceptives; please do not abandon us. To that effect, as a technical working group, we have written a letter of appeal to the UK Embassy here in Harare asking to say, we are in the process of amending Section 35 to include the youths. It will mean that we are not ready for the extra burden that is coming on our load. What I am saying is that there is a lot of work people are doing around this issue which we are not supporting.
Youths are considered as adolescents and Zimbabwe in the Global Fund which we submitted, it says we shall leave no one behind. We shall ensure that the youths get treatment. Can we get the treatment when Section 35 says no? You cannot. It is only those who have got parents who can take them to the private sector and can access the health of the people. We even developed as a nation, a National Adolescent and Youth Sexual and Reproductive. When we are out there, we shine “mufunge. Tinenge tine madocuments ese awa.” This document was developed with youths and the sector ministries. In this document, it is very clear that the youths shall be supported to access health services and health information.
We went on and did a fantastic thing by passing the law of comprehensive sexual education. Also, as part of that, we decided to retain pregnant girls in schools but what happens to a 13 year old, 14 year old or 15 year old who is pregnant who now needs to go and access health services? The clinic nurse will say, “uchiri mwana mudiki,” go and bring your parents. Maybe they are even in a boarding school or somewhere but if this girl is given that mandate or if we give them that authority, the girl will go and be seen by the nurse. I am standing here and saying, I strongly believe if we could amend Section 35 of the Public Health Act, we can reduce teenage pregnancies by 75%. They will automatically go. It is just that the adolescents cannot access these services.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): You are left with five minutes Hon. Dr. Labode.
HON. DR. LABODE: Thank you. As I stand here personally, I am asking the Minister of Health and Child Care to bring the Public Health Act and amend Section 35 to include a section that says, “any child who is below the age of 18 and is sexually active, when they get to a hospital and say I am sexually active, every other question should go.” That child should be given what she needs. Thank you very much.
(v)*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank the previous speaker Hon. Labode. Adolescents should have knowledge about sexual health. They should be taught what it is all about. We are not saying they should be taught about sex at a very tender age and we are not saying we should reduce the age of consent. What we are saying is; children must be taught at that young age, let us say 12 years. They should know their rights so that they know as adolescents if they sleep with an older person, they fall pregnant. They should be aware of the consequences. We have 5000 girls who fell pregnant. If only these girls were taught and made aware of the consequences, they would not have fallen pregnant. It should be their own consent knowing what will happen after the action they would have taken. This is why we are saying children should be taught about the consequences of indulging in sexual activities.
Girls try to terminate pregnancies because they do not feel the consequences. Sexual health services should reach these young people. All those girls who fell pregnant during the Covid pandemic should be given an opportunity to go back to school. According to the current Health Act, when those who are pregnant go to the hospitals, they should be in the company of their parents.
Also, health personnel should be trained on how to handle the young people who would have fallen pregnant. If adolescents visit health centres to get themselves tested for HIV, let them be tested. If the health personnel assist these adolescents who visit health centres without the company of parents, you would find that there will be consequences to them for assisting the young ones. They are actually afraid of getting arrested. The law should have a leeway to allow for that provision because these things are happening. Our children are indulging in sexual activities. For child headed families, what will they do? Are they being blocked from accessing such services? That law which says children should be accompanied by an adult to a health centre should be removed because some are child headed families.
There are some sections of the law that we are not following. We are saying children should be taught and trained on sexual health. When children have been exposed to this education they should have an opportunity to make a choice of their own and they will be knowing the consequences that they are exposing themselves to when they go on and sleep, have sex and fall pregnant. What we are saying is these SRHR issues should be taught to children so that they know the consequences.
What it means is what we drew ourselves to follow - we cannot achieve it. It is a tall order for us. So what we are saying is our children are sleeping with older men at a tender age and so they should know so that they are able to be safeguarded because you are equipped with information. They should be able to make a choice because they have been taught so that they know the consequences if they proceed with certain actions. They should be taught on Sexual Reproductive Health Services so that they know the consequences. I support this petition. SDG 3 says we should not leave anyone behind. Let us walk with them because they should never walk alone. Thank you.
(v)*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this issue. I would like to support what came out in this report that was given before us which was read out by Hon. Size and supported by the Chairperson of this Committee Hon. Labode. Allow me to say what was said by the advocacy core-team - we heard it from where we held meetings. We saw that what they mentioned was true. We went around to 22 centres in this whole country. The advocacy core-team asked Parliament to say some of the laws that are aligned to SRHR be looked at. The focus was on the rights of children under the age of 18.
All the children who are referred to as adolescents should have access to sexual health care education with regards to SRHR such as HIV testing or how to prevent pregnancy. They should know all this information. This is very important for their good and even their private parts. Those are some of the things they should know and they should have access to such information. Other children might want to know about their periods. It is very difficult for children to talk to their own parents. Their uncles might be far away but still they want to know about this information. How then will they know the laws that are there? It is our desire that these laws are reviewed so that children have access to sexual health information or even services from health centres despite their age.
So, the main objective of reviewing these laws is not to promote sexual behavior which is bad. Even if Section 17 and 71 of our Constitution gives everyone an opportunity to have access to health services, but when it comes to age, that is where the issue is and being accompanied to access health care services. These have caused a lot of problems in the lives of those who are young to this day. Children of today are different from us. We grew up without knowing pornography or watching it on line but today’s children, because of influence from their friends, are watching a lot because of social media.
We should show that we are organised and enable these children to learn the reality of what is happening, not to allow them to learn from their friends - of which they might be learning something which is very toxic. Let us look at the law of National HIV Testing and Guiding. These laws looked down upon the children on their rights. They should be reviewed instead. Children should be open and free, despite their age - whether it is a boy or a girl. All of them should have access to sexual reproductive health services. We ask those who are going to be assisting these children to be taught and made aware of what they are expected to do so that they do not blame these young ones when they come forward seeking these sexual reproductive health services.
This area needs serious attention. So Parliament, let us come together and find a sustainable solution. It is our desire to see the Ministry of Health reviewing this law. The oppression, the segregation and the discrimination you get when you are seeking sexual reproductive health, especially children of the young age, those laws should be reviewed. They should be allowed to get assistance. They should not be harassed or interrogated. The way the generation of today is growing is totally different from our generation - it is a different dimension. A lot of girls are getting impregnated and in their efforts to come and get rid of the pregnancies, get rid of their own children and have problems. You find that a young girl will have a baby. The baby is young and the mother is young.
THE TEMPRORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Hon. Zhou your network is not consistent and we are losing you but now we can hear you clearly.
(v)* HON. P. ZHOU: In some nations - the law protects the children from harassment and discrimination when they seek sexual reproductive health, that is the way to go. Even some children who are asked to bring a parent or a guardian to access these health services, it is impossible because some of them are orphaned. Where will they get that someone? If a child has a itching private parts, parents may quickly react. We kindly request that the laws be reviewed to allow adolescents to access these health services. It is very important for them. Those who are assisting them should be conscientised to the fact that these children have rights. It is even proper to include this information to the school curriculum so that the children learn at a young age what is expected of them and the consequences when they take certain action.
We are not encouraging children to engage in prostitution. Children should be able to get help because even if we deny it, children are engaging in sex and getting impregnated at a very young age. Boys are impregnating at a very young age. It is improper for grandparents to send their children as well as grandchildren to school. It is very important that we assist these adolescents to get access to SRHR health services. Those in the Health Services Department should be trained in proper Public Relations skills to understand how to handle such situations. It should be a weapon to equip them so that educationally, they know what steps and direction to take. It is also important for them to know what to take and even to condomise at that young age.
Children are doing a lot of things behind our backs and that is the reality. We should have legislation instead, that ensures the safety of children. We cannot afford to have a lost generation. I thank you.
(v)HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for affording me this opportunity to add my voice and support to our joint report as Portfolio Committee of Health and Child Care and the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS for the age of consent to accessing reproductive healthcare and services by adolescents and young persons of Zimbabwe. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to first of all thank Hon. Saizi for articulating our report in a very good way. I would also like to thank the seconder, Hon. Dr. Labode for giving examples and the position that we are in as Zimbabwe.
From the onset, I would like to recommend that we amend the 2018 Public Health law. Madam Speaker Ma’am, as was earlier alluded by Hon. Dr. Labode, it is important that we make sure that people understand that we are talking about the access to health for young people and adolescents. Most of what I would have liked to say has been spoken to but as we amend the law, I would like, as a Government, to align to the reality that is there in our communities. One thing that we must be alive to, inasmuch as the adults, churches and cultural leaders were against access to health rights; it is important for us to know and for them to know that whether we like it or not, those children are engaging in sex with or without their permission.
These children then get infected by STIs and the current law, as stated by our report, does not allow children to access health and health facilities at the clinics and doctors without their parents. So as we know in our culture, society and country, there is no way that a young child can actually go to the parent and tell them, ‘Mom or aunt, I have got an STI or there is something wrong with me because I indulged in sexual intercourse. Can we go to a clinic?’ What then happens in most cases Madam Speaker Ma’am is that the children who come from poverty stricken/aligned areas or homes suffer the brunt of going through all the trauma of going through pregnancies. Whilst the children from affluent families, church leaders, traditional and community leaders are then taken privately to doctors and hospitals and go through procedures of safe abortion. The poor young people then will go to the neighbourhood old grannies where they get unsafe treatment and abortions.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I remember in the last Parliament, as Members of Parliament, we went to Msasa Project. When we went to Msasa Project, we saw young children as young as the age of 10 years old. The following week, they were brought to this very Parliament and sat in that Gallery. The children were impregnated by very close family members such as fathers, brothers and uncles. In Bulawayo Madam Speaker Ma’am, there is a Safe House what used to be a hotel which is now a home. At that home, when I went, it was towards winter; I went there to donate some winter clothing. I thought it was an orphanage, only to be surprised that it was a safe home. I was met by young children and I did not think for a moment that those children could be parents.
To my surprise Madam Speaker Ma’am, when I asked how many orphans they had, the proprietor of the institution explained to me that this was a safe home for children that were abused and mostly if not 99.99% were abused by family members. Madam Speaker, if we amend this law and also introduce awareness and education in schools, it will help these children understand, may be to speak at an early age, tell their teacher, go to clinics and hospitals early before it is too late for them to be treated.
As we went around as a Committee, we realised that the young people were not given an opportunity to speak out. What would happen in most cases would be that the church leaders and community leaders would organise themselves in front and make sure that they would stand up and speak out against the access to sexual reproductive health rights for youths and adolescents. This will intimidate the children. I am bringing it up again not because I want to repeat but because I would like to recommend that in future when we are doing public hearings on issues that concern children and adolescents, we also make sure that we have a platform where young children and adolescents are free to express themselves.
I also had the opportunity to attend a club because there are some clubs in high schools around the country but I do know that there are some in Bulawayo. I went to Ihlathi High School in Sizinda where there is such a club at the school and I was taken by surprise to see that young people could actually speak out. They knew what affected them. They spoke on situations of poverty and what they were going through in their homes.
Madam Speaker, it is very important that we do give the young people their space for them to be heard. I noticed that we are actually doing this in the regional platforms like SADC PF. I know that we have had presentations from youths and they have pointed out categorically that there should be nothing for them without them. Also Madam Speaker, it happened at the SADC PF meeting where the Members of Parliament that were there, most of the members in both Committees are older people, they were sort of intimidating these young people.
One of us stood up and actually spoke and this is an example that we have actually given on how old our parents or mothers got married back in the days. The example that was given there is; can each person in that meeting write down the age of the oldest sibling’s age from the family and subtract it from their mother’s age. We wanted to find out if most parents were over the age of 18 by the time they gave birth to their first child but that was not the case. After that, Members of Parliament realised that their approach was wrong and realised that what the youths are going through now is not new. It is not because of social media and internet but it has been there since time immemorial.
Madam Speaker, if our parents then had been given education such as SRHR, I do not think we would be where we are today. If SRHR education is imparted to the young people, it enlightens them and gives them an opportunity to realise their dreams, wishes and aspirations. So Madam Speaker, in short, I would like to reaffirm my position that as the Joint Committee on Health and HIV & AIDS, that we recommend the amendment of the 2018 law.
(v) HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Madam Speaker I thank Hon. Saizi for moving this motion and reading the report on behalf of the Committee and its Chairperson. I also want to add my voice with regards to the report. I will start by noting that as Zimbabwe we really value the right to health. In this particular context, we are signatory to a lot of international conventions where we have committed ourselves as a country. To that end, we need to make sure that we do not just attend these international conferences but we should also make sure that we domesticate observings of these international conferences and protocols and also make sure that the people of Zimbabwe on the ground benefit from these international commitments that we are part of.
To highlight some of the few, we are a signatory to the Sustainable Development Goals of which SDG No. 3 clearly talks about the health to all ages. In this particular context, adolescents need to be protected by the Sustainable Development Goal No. 3 that Zimbabwe is fully part of. We are also part of the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights. Article 16 talks about the right to health for all people including adolescents. We need to make sure that we action that in terms of the situation on the ground in Zimbabwe.
Also, in Zimbabwe we are part of the Maputo Protocol which is the African Charter for Human and People’s Rights from a women’s point of view. Article 14 talks about access to SRHR among other issues. In Zimbabwe, we are supposed to uphold this on the ground. We are also a champion of the Convention of Elimination and Discrimination against Humans and in this particular context as Zimbabwe, we need to protect the rights of adolescents for women and girls with the context of the right to health. Also as Zimbabwe, we have the 2013 Constitution. In that same Constitution as a country we speak about the right to health being one of the most important rights. In terms of section 76 of the Zimbabwean Constitution, we seek to protect the right to health for all citizens of Zimbabwe and that includes adolescent women or girls and young people in general. So from that context, we need to realise that the right to health is a very important right that we need to defend at all costs as people of Zimbabwe.
Coming to the petition that was submitted to the Joint Committee that made us do the public hearings, I just wanted to highlight that one thing I learnt from the public hearings in response to the petition is that there is a big gap between morality and reality, because most of the people who were opposed to the petition were highlighting the moral aspect of the process, while those who were supporting the petition were highlighting the reality on the ground. As a Parliamentarian, I really feel that when we are addressing this petition - when we are addressing this matter, we need to separate the two issues. The issue of morality must be addressed by these organizations: religious leaders, traditional leaders, by everyone who is concerned about morality. If that process is done properly, then we will not have this problem in the first place. So I think this is a preventative approach to say that if we believe there is more support to be done, then these problems that we are facing today as a country will not be happening. If the churches are preaching to the young people and they are staying away from sex, they are practicing celibacy or abstinence, then we would not be having this debate.
On the other hand, we have the issue of the reality on the ground that in spite of the champions of morality, there is still a growing concern that our adolescents are being exposed to sex. They are being exposed to all sorts of issues and more importantly, they are being denied access to sexual reproduction and health services. So in my understanding as a Parliamentarian, I think it is important, especially as a Member of the Committee for Health and Child Care, to ensure that the current policies of this country, the current laws of this country are changed in such a way that they protect our adolescents, they protect our young people and in that context they enforce their right to health. So if you check the reality on the ground - just this week, I read a report that in Mashonaland Central province they have a big problem of teenage pregnancy. In 2019, they reported 738 teenage pregnancies and in 2020 they had an increase, they reported 730 cases of teenage pregnancies. Then this year, and it is just five months into the year - they already have 288 cases of teenage pregnancies.
This is a very big statistic and it is a huge concern to me. As a Parliamentarians, we need to protect our adolescents, we need to protect the girl child. Can you imagine being pregnant and you are a teenager and you are supposed to be at school? So in health care we talk about prevention being better than cure and it is very important for us, as a country, to respond to the situation on the ground by making sure that we stop the process that is happening right now where a lot of our children are being exposed to sex and are being denied access to health care services including SRHR. It is important for us as a country to ensure that our policies and our laws are changed and adjusted to respond to the situation so that we prevent such cases because they are growing on the ground.
We know that we have changed the education laws to ensure that our pregnant teenagers or learners are now allowed to attend school while pregnant but that is a reactive strategy. You first allow a girl child to get pregnant and then you want them to attend school and be exposed to stigma and all sorts of social issues. What we should be more concerned about is to make sure that they do not get pregnant in the first place, that they continue attending school because unfortunately, the girl child is the one that is affected more than the boy child.
So it is important as a country to ensure that we change our policies and laws to accommodate preventative strategies and SRHR services that our young people, our adolescents are being denied are actually prevented in nature. They help our young people to have difficult decision and make sure that they do not go to a stage where they have to face pregnancy, abortion which is mostly illegal abortion, where they have to face maternal mortality. Our maternal mortality rates seem to be rising and one of the causes is teenage pregnancies. We need to protect our children, we need to protect our girl child. Also we need to protect them from STIs, HIV and Aids. So, to ensure that they do not get to that end, we need to make sure that our policies and laws have changed.
I would like to support the report on two key aspects. I think the first aspect is to say that we need to lower the age in which our teenagers or our young people can access health care services or SRHR services and in my view, we need to reduce that to at least 14 years. At least a form one child should be allowed to go to a clinic to access health care services, SRHR services, at secondary school because we all know in Zimbabwe that by that time they are sexually active.
Also the fact that health care workers are still bound in responding to cases on the ground when lives are at risk, when teenage patients come to the clinic to the health care services they are bound by policies and laws, we need to change that to ensure that each case is decided on its own personal facts so that front line health care workers are allowed to make decisions and save lives and protect lives from unwanted pregnancies, STIs and illegal abortions and so on. So we need to ensure that we change the law to allow health care workers to take care of their responsibility.
In particular, we need to ensure that section 35 of the Public Health Act is amended immediately to be made more realistic in implementation. We want to make sure that we protect the teachers of our young people, of our adolescents. We want to make sure that they have a future, they have careers and are not forced into early child marriages and access to health care and SRHR services to make sure that we reduce the statistics. We need to make sure that access to health is enjoyed by every Zimbabwean including our young Zimbabweans, teenagers and adolescents especially the girl child. We must not leave anyone behind. To that end, I support that the laws and policies should change to accommodate, more flexibility for a health care service delivery for adolescents especially for the girl child. Thank you Madam Speaker.
(v)*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, I want to thank Hon. Saizi for presenting this report on the petition raised on the accessibility of healthcare services for children. I also want to thank the Chairperson for the Health Committee, Hon. Labode.
Madam Speaker, the report has brought out a lot of things which are being done by our children. Hon. Labode explained very well issues that are happening; she even quoted examples from the Bible and other written sources which talk about the issues of children’s rights to healthcare.
Every person has got rights, even children have their own rights, they are there and they are written. Children must be well informed on where to find some of these things, for example, where to access condoms or contraceptives to prevent them from unwanted pregnancies and diseases. However, there must be an agreement to say children must use contraceptives. We may deny the fact that they are engaging in sexual activities but that is the truth on the ground.
Madam Speaker, during the COVID-19 lockdown, more than 5 000 school going girls fell pregnant. Therefore, I agree with the report and what Hon. Labode said that our kids are indulging in sexual activities. We must find best ways to protect children’s rights and their healthcare. Children must be educated on steps to be taken in the event of unwanted pregnancies as well as how to prevent them so that they continue with their education.
In terms of safe sex, our children do not have access to enough information. They do not know the repercussions of these early sexual activities. The aunties and grandmothers who used to play the advisory role are no longer there. Therefore, it is now the duty of sisters and parents to educate our children. The 5 000 girls that have been spoken about clearly proves that a lot of children are engaging in sex.
In conclusion, I suggest that there must be radio and television programmes which educate these children about sexual reproductive health and awareness programmes on abstaining from sex. For example, I have given these programmes names such as Dandaro revananasikana vechidiki.
Sexual reproductive health must also be taught in schools especially to those classes with adolescent girls. Written material should be availed to schools teaching about children’s healthcare. Children’s Act Chapter 6 talks about the rights of children, however, a lot of pieces of legislation on children’s rights are scattered in different Government departments. However, it is ideal for all these laws to be housed in one department in order to protect children.
Madam Speaker, there are practical examples in Samora Machel Avenue where you see these little girls carrying their own kids asking for help in the streets. The age of these children clearly tells you that these children never fell in love but it was abuse and forced marriages. If the girl child is protected, we will not find them in the streets or in forced marriages. I thank you.
(v)HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to this debate. Firstly, allow me to thank Hon. Saizi for coming up with this topical motion and Hon. Dr. Labode for seconding it.
Madam Speaker, I want to go against the tide. When God was counting the number of Israelites, God never counted the children. He left the children out and said the war and other things are for adults. So, I fully support the comments coming from the Church. What we are now trying to do is to teach sex lessons to children before time which I am completely against. It is uncultured and unheard of. We are becoming less Africans and less cultural.
Madam Speaker, at this rate, we are opening the flood gates to say children, go ahead and do whatever you are going to do, nobody will ask you. Your parents have got no rights over you. You are now independent, you can have as much sex as you can, and condoms are readily available. This is totally unacceptable – I cannot even express myself.
Whilst we appreciate that indeed some of the children are going into SRHR issues. If you look at the studies they are showing that 108 of 1000 girls between 15 and 18 years are the ones involved in sexual activities. So, we are looking at 10% of the adolescents, those are the ones we are referring to. Of those 10%, only 10% said they do not know about condom use or contraceptive. Again, of those 10%, 23% said, they were not aware that they would fall pregnant. The other 19% of that 10% said we got into early marriages.
However, the moment we say put up a law which baptises everything, I do not think we are doing what is right. We will actually be majoring in the minor. During COVID-19 lockdown, 4 959 girls fell pregnant; what it speaks of is that these children did not have things to do. If they had things to do, then the statistics would have gone lower. Hon. Molokela referred to about 730 something. So, we are looking at 350 000 adolescents, if 730 become pregnant and then we say let us throw away and give adolescents the freedom to do whatever they want to do, I do not think that is proper and at the end of the day parents are no longer deemed to be necessary.
The children are going to disobey their parents; what is wrong that when my child falls ill, I escort them to the hospital to get whatever remedy is necessary in my presence so that I know what is happening to my child than for things to be happening behind my back? I will then be surprised to know that I am now a grandfather of 5 because these children will be doing whatever they feel like.
Madam Speaker, there are issues of rapists. I think the law has to do with rapists and that does not necessarily mean that we need to give our children free reign to just go and look for condoms. So we are actually supporting the giving of condoms and having sex before the age of consent. We are doing is encouraging pregnancies to happen. Whereas if there is sort of a limit like what is currently the case, you find that there are sort of some inhibitions. Otherwise, what we are trying to do is; we are saying now let us really have pregnancies fully blossom and this increases the number of children who are coming from these relationships.
I am not in denial but I think parents are the focus for families and have to be respected. I clearly do not support what the petitioners are seeking. There is the issue of reality and morality. Honestly, when God came to destroy the world it was because of disobedience and nothing else so reality may be there but we need morality which will make us not be disobedient. Very soon, we are going to end up not having many things like now we have got a prayer so why should we pray because God is against all this.
There was a reference to say when the Israelites were going to Jericho they were saved by Rahab the prostitute. Yes, Rahab was just one but even other prostitutes that were in that area were destroyed. She was just serving a purpose. The moral purpose that we are serving here is to do the right thing and what is right is we need to throw away this petition. We cannot allow our kids to go against God and then clap our hands. Let them do it and then deep inside they will know what they are doing is wrong but we cannot honestly clap our hands and say well done for something like that.
There is a question to say 80% of Zimbabwe teenage pregnancies above the age of majority, indeed 22% of the teenage pregnancies are below but we are looking at 80% of what. So, we are trying to fix a law for a very few people that I think I am totally against. That is my comment and thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this petition which was brought in by Hon. Saizi, seconded by Hon. Dr. Labode. We are an African country and being an African country we have our norms, culture and beliefs. It is not everything that happens in –
HON. DR. KHUPE: My point of order is that Hon. Ndiweni is not well dressed. He does not have a jacket.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndiweni, you are not dressed properly. You are supposed to put on a jacket.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: I am dressed properly. Who is saying I am not. Is it because I am opposing this petition?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You have to wear a jacket – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Order!
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was saying we are an African country and we have our own customs and beliefs. It is not everything that the western world sees as right that we should take down our throat.
Madam Speaker, let me just give a typical example. How many thieves are throwing in jail in this country? Do we have to throw away laws like we are throwing away thieves into jail because we have 7 000 thieves then we have to change the law and say stealing is now legal. Do we have to do that? I am agreeable that children who have no guardians or parents, we should make a provision for those exceptional children so that institutions, be it children’s home, hospital or school, if there are people who can help them and take them as their guardians so that they teach SRHR, not to open floodgates.
Let me go back to the trip that we made throughout the country Madam Speaker. People were against this petition, 90% of the people were against this petition. The only people that were supporting this petition were hired people who followed us from centre to centre and we raised these issues with the Committee. We saw them and I have got pictures of people that were been given money. These were the people that were going from centre to centre supporting. In Karoi for example, people were so hurt because the people that were supportive of that petition were people that do not come from Hurungwe. We said no, we came to Hurungwe so that we hear views of the people from Hurungwe. If we go to Chinhoyi, we go hear views from the people of Chinhoyi. There was almost pandemonium in Karoi and Chinhoyi because people realised that the people that were supportive of this petition were people that were hired to support the petition.
We should always analyse some of these things Madam Speaker. We should not just force them down our throats as if we do not think. We have our culture. Let us maintain the law as it is. Let us twitch it where it is possible because if we realise we have kids that have no access to health services and have no guardians, and that was the only bone of contention that there are kids that have no guardians and have no access to health services. So let us look at that particular group of children and have them have access to health services and not open the floodgates and say all children. If they are going to access health services at the age of 12, what stops that kid when they are at the clinic to ask for oral contraceptives because now they are independent to do that? Where is the guardian?
If all the people that are supportive of this petition, if we had changed the laws when they were young they will be dead by now because they have been protected by these laws. These laws have helped us for us to become Members of Parliament and adults; it is because of these laws that were protective of adolescence exposure. A child who is not mature cannot make a decision on healthcare and say I can make my own decision without a guardian or parent.
I personally and the majority of the people of Zimbabwe were against this. So I am surprised why people are saying this was supported. Wherever we went, 90% were against the petition. Where is this support coming from? Let us be careful and let us not be used. Some people are coming with money to try and change our laws. In the western world at the moment, there are children that are having babies at 14, but have support structures. They want our children to also have babies at 14 – where do we get the support structures. This is just a minority of children that are digressing from the norm. Let us find ways and means of correcting the tiny minority rather than changing the law to suit a tiny minority.
I have given you an example Madam Speaker that you cannot change a law and say stealing is now legal because we are having so many people stealing, murder is now legal because we are having so many people murdering and we have to accommodate them. What kind of society will that be? Culturally, we are a Christian nation, for goodness sake. Our Constitution says Zimbabwe is a Christian nation. Where will our Christianity be if we adopt such diabolical laws that are going to allow our children to have access to contraceptives or condoms and as a parent I sit back and say, oh that is their right? These rights are going to lead us into hell and doom. Let us maintain the law and see where we can adjust the laws. Yes, we have a problem but we adjust the law and not throw away our values that we had and these protected our society. Suddenly we say this is done in other countries, let us adopt it here; I am totally against and I am speaking for 90% of the population in Zimbabwe – they are totally against this petition. I thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to voice my opposition to this petition.
HON. SAIZI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. DZUMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 8th June, 2021.
On the motion of HON. T. MOYO, seconded by HON. DZUMA, the House adjourned at Twenty-Two Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 8th June, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 1st June, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Mine is a point of privilege. I once stood here complaining about the potholes on the Victoria Falls - Hwange Road. I complained that the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development should take urgent notice of the bad road because it represents the image of our country as it is also used by tourists from all over the world.
I want to thank him because he took a step and repaired the road. The road was repaired from Bulawayo to Hwange and to Victoria Falls. There are no potholes. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the response and work done. I think he will also do that to other roads that lead to other countries like South Africa, Mozambique like the road to Nyamapanda which is very bad. I hope he will do the same. I want to thank him very much.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege Madam Speaker Ma’am. Forgive me for taking off my mask; I need to take a breath of fresh air.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you are supposed to be wearing your mask, please put on your mask.
Hon. Nduna wore back his mask.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I thank you and good afternoon. I stand here to applaud the Minister of Health and Child Care, who is also the Vice President of the country for having gazetted and published in the daily papers that there is going to be an ambulance at every tollgate. Meaning, of the 27 or 29 tollgates that we have, we are going to have 27 accident victim stabilisation centres.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is in response to your report of the Eighth Parliament which came from the Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development, which I chaired Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to applaud him for responding positively to that report and also go further to say if he can get the money similarly along the same lines as Statutory Instrument 45 of 2005, which mandates third party insurance to remit 12.5% to Traffic Safety Council for traffic awareness. If he can establish a statutory instrument, pretty much along the same lines that can take 5% from third party insurance to run those accident victim stabilisation centres so that 70% of our people that are involved in road carnage, who were dying because they have not gone to definitive health care institutions can now be attended to expeditiously, efficiently and effectively Madam Speaker Ma’am. I also ask on the same vein, for an audit on the monies that are going to Traffic Safety Council, the 12.5% from third party insurance. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am with all my heart.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. We will convey the message.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 17 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 17 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I have a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Mushoriwa?
HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Speaker, last month I did rise on the same thing to ask whether this Parliament, especially the National Assembly – is Business of the House Committee actually operating? The current set up Madam Speaker, is that it is now difficult for Members of Parliament to plan according to the Order Paper because the caucuses are now happening within this august House. We are just wondering whether the Business of the House is now defunct. It is even worse Madam Speaker if you consider the size of the Order Paper and the Government business on the Order Paper. We wonder whether we no longer have Ministers who are prepared to move those motions so that Members who have actually prepared to come and debate these Bills can be given the opportunity. Madam Speaker, do we still have that Business of the House Committee or things can just happen haphazard and an order which is at number 20 or 70 can become number one on a given day.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, Business of the House Committee is still there and it still operates. It is only that Ministers at the moment are attending Cabinet meetings. That is why we can choose from the Order Paper which motions to debate.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE PETITION FROM THE ZIMBABWE PEOPLE’S REVOLUTIONARY ARMY (ZPRA) VETERANS
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD) MAYIHLOME: I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on the petition from the Zimbabwe People’s Revolutionary Army (ZPRA) Veterans appealing to Parliament to amend the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act [Chapter 17:12], (S. C. 11, 2021).
Ordered in Terms of Standing Order No. 17:
At the commencement of every session, there shall be as many committees to be designated according to government portfolios as the Standing Rules and Orders Committee may deem fit.
- It shall be the function of such committees to examine expenditure administration and policy of Government departments and other matters falling under their jurisdictions as Parliament may, by resolution determine;
- The members of such committees shall be appointed by the Standing Rules and Orders Committee, from one or both Houses of Parliament, and such appointments shall take into account the expressed interests or expertise of the Members and Senators and the political and gender composition of Parliament;
iii. Each select committee shall be known by the portfolio determined for it by the Standing Rules and Orders Committee.
Terms of Reference of Portfolio Committees S.O 20
Subject to these Standing Orders a Portfolio Committee shall:
- Consider and deal with all Bills and Statutory Instruments or other matters which are referred to it by or under a resolution of the House or by the Speaker;
- Consider or deal with an appropriation or money bill or any aspect of an appropriation or money bill referred to it by these Standing Orders or by or under resolution of this House;
iii. Monitor, investigate, inquire into and make recommendations relating to any aspect of the legislative programme, budget, rationalisation, policy formulation or any other matter it may consider relevant of the government department falling within the category of affairs assigned to it, and may for that purpose consult and liaise with such a department;
- Consider or deal with all international treaties, conventions and agreements relevant to it, which are from time to time negotiated, entered into or agreed upon.
1.0 Introduction
Pursuant to Section 149 of the Constitution, the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services received a petition from Zimbabwe People’s Revolutionary Army (ZPRA) Veterans appealing to Parliament to amend the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act (Chapter 17:12) in order to address some specific issues which were not satisfactorily covered in the Act. The petitioners prayer was that Parliament should amend the aforementioned Act, particularly the section on interpretation, to provide clear definitions of ‘non-combatant cadre’ and ‘transit camp.’ They also raised other issues which were not expressly stated in the petition which also required attention. By clearly defining the cited terms and addressing the additional gaps noted, the Act would become all-inclusive and thereby living no veteran of the liberation struggle behind in all government programmes.
2.0 Objective of the Enquiry
The broad objective of the enquiry was to enable Committee Members to fully establish and appreciate the petitioners concerns and come up with informed recommendations based on thorough investigations.
3.0 Methodology
The Committees undertook the following activities as part of the inquiry:
3.1 It gathered oral evidence from the Permanent Secretary for Defence and War Veterans Affairs to establish whether the issues raised by the petitioners were not covered in the Act;
3.2 It also gathered oral evidence from War Veterans League in order to get an insight into the issues raised in the petition;
3.3 It received oral evidence from the petitioners in order to get first-hand information on specific issues that needed to be addressed;
3.4 It analysed written submissions from the petitioners (ZPRA Veterans), the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs and War Veterans League and;
3.5 It considered recommendations made in its report on the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill [H.B. 15, 2019] against the Act itself.
4.0 Committee’s Findings
4.1 ZPRA Veterans
Representatives of ZPRA Veterans briefed the Committee about the ZPRA petition which sought to address two specific issues of concern noted in the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act [Chapter 17:12] while also highlighting some gaps which were not expressly stated in the petition. They claimed that the Act was not precise in its definition of some terms such as ‘non-combatant cadre’ and ‘transit camps.
The veterans were dissatisfied by the Act’s definitions of ‘non-combatant cadres’ and ‘Transit camps.’
4.1.1 Non-Combatant Cadre
The ‘non-combatant cadre’ is defined in the Act as any person accredited as such in terms of this Act who, having crossed any of Zimbabwe’s borders for purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of ZANLA or ZIPRA forces but due to circumstances beyond his or her control did not get military training and remained in the transit camp in Mozambique and Zambia until 29th November, 1979;
ZPRA Veterans opposed the given interpretation of non-combatant cadre on the grounds that it excluded several other countries where transit camps were established. They argued that the definition failed to recognise non-combatant cadres who were stationed at other transit camps other than Zambia and Mozambique. In light of that omission, they submitted an additional list of transit camps which were allegedly left out as follows:
Botswana, Egypt, Cuba, Algeria, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Angola, Ghana, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Russia (SSR), Sweden, Netherlands
Romania, German Democratic Republic
They proposed that ‘non-combatant cadre’ should be defined as ‘Any person accredited as such in terms of this Act who, having crossed any of Zimbabwe’s borders for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of ZANLA or ZPRA forces, but due to circumstances beyond his or her control, did not get military training and remained in the transit camp in Mozambique, Botswana, Zambia, Angola, Tanzania and other countries until 29 November 1979.'
4.1.2 Transit Camp
In the Act, ‘transit camp’ refers to ‘… any camp for the temporary accommodation of any persons who crossed Zimbabwe’s borders whether or not for purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of the ZANLA or ZIPRA forces.’
The petitioners argued that not everyone who went outside Zimbabwe’s borders did so to join the struggle for independence. In their view, some had their own ulterior motives opposed to the protracted struggle for the liberation of the people. For that reason, those who crossed Zimbabwe’s borders in pursuit of personal glory could not fit in the category of non-combatant cadres. Therefore, they saw the Act’s definition as a ploy to accommodate persons who may not have supported the struggle in any way while outside the country.
They therefore opted for ‘transit camp’ to be defined as ‘Any camp for the temporary accommodation of any persons who crossed Zimbabwe’s borders for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of the ZANLA or ZPRA forces.’
4.1.3 Additional concerns not expressly stated in the Petition
The petitioners further informed the Committee that there were several other gaps in the Act which were not highlighted in the petition yet they also required attention.
Examples of areas to be reviewed included the following:
v The Act is not explicit in defining powers of the Chief Director, especially in relation to the administration of schemes;
v The Act does not specify the extent to which vetting officers can act as Commissioner of Oath;
v Benefits are for both the living and deceased cadres (the latter benefitting posthumously through their spouses or dependants)
v The Act is not expressly clear on the criteria of awarding of benefits to the four categories of veterans of the liberation struggle. This applies to all the benefits provided for in the Act;
v Concerns were raised on the powers of the Minister. For instance, in Section 12 (3) it is stated that ‘the Minister may, within the resources available prescribe a gratuity, payable once only to a veteran of the liberation struggle.’ The argument proffered was that the clause gave the Minister the discretion to either pay or cease to pay such gratuity as would be required by an eligible beneficiary,
v The Act should have a clause clearly stating that the 1997 grant must be the yardstick for payment of gratuities to those who did not benefit during that time;
v Customs and excise duty exemptions on importation of vehicles and equipment for veterans of the liberation struggle;
v Economic issues such as awarding of grant or concessions, mining claims and empowerment drive benefits must be an automatic entitlement to veterans of the liberation struggle upon demand.
4.2 War Veterans League
The War Veterans League concurred with the ZPRA Veterans on the call to amend the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act [Chapter 17:12].
4.2.1 Definition of Non-Combatant Cadre
On the definition of on ‘non-combatant cadre’, the War Veterans League disagreed with the ZPRA veterans petitioners on the inclusion of the phrase ‘in other countries.’ They argued that not every country listed in the petition had transit camps. They picked out Tanzania and Angola for example, as having military training camps and not transit camps. They proclaimed that only Zambia, Mozambique and Botswana had recognisable transit camps. To that end, they asserted that the petitioners erred on including Tanzania and Angola under transit camps.
4.2.2 Transit Camp
The War Veterans League acknowledged and concurred with the petitioners on the definition of ‘transit camp’, particularly on the rationale for being in the camp. Like their counterparts, the War Veterans League opposed part of the definition of the Act which reads as follows:
‘…whether or not for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle…’
They asserted that transit camps were only established for and inhabited by cadres who left their homes in anticipation of joining the struggle in one way or the other. While it is indisputable that some may not have had the opportunity to undergo military training for reasons beyond their control, it is that sacrificial motive that justified their qualification as non-combatant cadres. Those who had other reasons other than participating in the liberation struggle would not qualify. To that end, they argued that the Act’s definition left room for manipulation and would allow undeserving opportunists to benefit from it.
4.3 Other Issues raised but not expressly stated in the ZPRA Veterans Petition
The Committee was briefed by the War Veterans League that it was against international best practice for war collaborators and ex-detainees to be called war veterans. The War Veterans League maintained that it was demeaning on the part of ‘war veterans’ to be classified under the same banner as the aforesaid groups of veterans of the liberation struggle. In as much as their contribution to the struggle could not be ignored, the War Veterans League queried the rationale for giving war veterans recognition or status to war collaborators and ex-political prisoners, detainees and restrictees. To them, referring to all under the umbrella of ‘Veterans of the Liberation Struggle’ had the potential of undermining the distinct sacrifice of those who underwent military training and physically confronted the enemy.
The War Veterans League further informed the Committee that the Act was not explicit on how benefits would be awarded to the different categories of the veterans of the liberation struggle. It was argued that it was unfair practice to award the same benefits to the four categories yet their degree of sacrifice in the struggle was irrefutably different. It was emphasized that the ‘war veteran’ was always the main actor in the protracted war leading to the political emancipation of Zimbabwe. Thus, the ‘war veteran’ was regarded more senior than others. It was strongly stressed that this undertaking should unequivocally be pronounced in the Act in as much as it should also translate to the benefits that may accrue to them.
In addition, the War Veterans League asserted that in line with the concept of seniority and the role played by each category during the liberation struggle, the Act should clearly spell out the financial benefit percentage that should be accorded to war veterans, non-combatant cadres, war collaborators and ex-political prisoners, detainees and restrictees in relation to allowances. They said the clause should be clear in the Act contrary to being addressed by a statutory instrument, in their view, that could be manipulated by responsible authorities or Ministers.
They further posited that the term ‘may’ should be replaced by ‘shall’ as stated in the Committee’s report on the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Bill [H.B 15, 2019]. They argued that using the term ‘may’ does not compel the responsible authority to act in the manner as would be desirable to the beneficiaries but rather give the Minister the discretion to act otherwise.
The War Veterans League informed the Committee that access to medical aid should not be limited to government medical institutions. Rather, beneficiaries should access medical care from both private and public hospitals as long as they were able to get the best possible medical assistance offered in those institutions.
4.3.1 Composition of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Board
The War Veterans League further disputed the Minister’s prerogative to appoint the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Board. They argued that veterans of the liberation struggle should be accorded the power to select and recommend to the board all members, including the Chairperson of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Board, through their provincial and district structures in order to ensure equal representation of all provinces.
4.3.2 Office of the Liberation Struggle, Chief Director thereof and Staff.
The Committee was informed that the powers given to the Chief Director by the Act must be trimmed, especially concerning the administration of schemes established in terms of the Act. They suggested that administration of schemes should be done by provincial boards which were recommended in terms of the principle of devolution.
4.3.3 Composition of the Vetting Committee
Members of the War Veterans League alluded to the fact that the establishment of the Vetting Committee should take into consideration the principle of devolution. They therefore maintained that vetting offices should be decentralised to the country`s ten provinces. It was pointed out that the Act did not define the criteria for establishing the Vetting Office and who should qualify for appointment into that office. It was, therefore, recommended that all the categories constituting the veterans of the liberation struggle should be represented in the vetting office and should be drawn from senior ZANLA and ZPRA ex-fighters in order to safeguard transparency. To that end, they recommended that the sub-title ‘Powers of Vetting Officers’ on Part II, Clause 8 of the Act should be expanded to read as ‘Appointment, Powers and Duties of Vetting Officers.’
4.3.4 Stand-alone Ministry
The War Veterans League further posited that veterans of the liberation struggle were appealing for the establishment of a stand-alone Ministry that would administer all the programmes and issues affecting veterans of the liberation struggle. They maintained that the Ministry would dedicate its effort and resources towards addressing the concerns of the war veterans. They reiterated that a stand-alone Ministry would effectively address the specific challenges faced by veterans of the liberation struggle.
4.3.5 Medals for Veterans of the Liberation Struggle
The Committee was informed that it was pertinent for veterans of the liberation to be recognised and honoured in the same manner as Chiefs through the provision of medals. It was also submitted that veterans of the liberation struggle should be accorded due respect at all important national gatherings and there was need for the Act to have a clause on that.
5.0 Submission from the Permanent Secretary - Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs
The Permanent Secretary assured the Committee that the issues raised by ZPRA Veterans in their petition could be addressed administratively. He indicated that redefinition of ‘non-combatant cadre’ and ‘transit camp’ called for further engagement with Cabinet and did not necessarily require amending the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act [ Chapter 17:12].
In addition, the Ministry indicated that the following issues raised in relation to the Act could be handled administratively without necessarily amending the Act:
- The need to change the title in Part 2, Clause 8 of the Act from ‘Powers of Vetting Officers’ to ‘Appointment, Powers and Duties of the Vetting Committee.’
- The proposal for Vetting Officers to be drawn from ex-commanders, chiefs or headmen;
- The request for equal treatment in terms of funeral assistance;
- The request to be exempted from paying land tax, vehicle import duty and tollgate fees;
- The request to be given bravery medals as is the case with Chiefs;
- The request for the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Fund to be decentralised which the Ministry indicated that it was already underway.
6.0 Analysis of the Findings
6.1 The Committee established that there was concurrence by both the petitioners and the War Veterans League on the need to redefine the terms ‘non-combatant cadres’ and ‘transit camp.’
6.2 The Committee noted that the words ‘…whether or not for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle…’included in the definition of ‘transit camp’ in the Act, indeed left room for manipulation by bogus elements who would claim to be veterans of the liberation struggle when in fact their reasons for crossing Zimbabwe’s borders may have had nothing to do with the liberation struggle. It was therefore, agreed that the definition proffered by the petitioners be adopted as it was watertight and specific.
6.3 The Committee discovered that some countries cited by the petitioners as having transit camps instead had military training camps. Such countries as Tanzania and Angola were arguably used as military training camps and not necessarily transit camps.
On the other hand, the Committee also noted that there were some people who were sent to Eastern Europe, Cuba and Asia for specialised administration training or specialist skills who should be considered for veterans of the liberation struggle status.
6.4 The Committee observed that the definition of non-combatant cadre was expected to cover in specific terms, countries which had identifiable and well-established transit camps. A typical example is that of Botswana which was left out in the Act but stakeholders acknowledged the presence of well-established transit camps such as those at Selibe Pikwe, Dukwe and Francistown in that country.
6.5 The Committee also observed that the petitioners were aggrieved about some provisions in other clauses in the Act which were not cited in their petition. These included the clause on medical aid benefits where they claimed that beneficiaries should access medical care from both private and public institutions locally and abroad as opposed to being restricted to government hospitals only. It was however, considered by the Committee that the provision cited in the Act was premised on the fact that civil servants and government officials accessed medical care from public institutions and would resort to private service providers only when the former could not provide a service required by the beneficiary at any one particular moment.
6.6 The Committee noted that the petitioners were concerned about how funeral assistance benefits payable in respect of a deceased veteran of the liberation struggle was going to be administered. The same concern applied to the awarding of hero status on deceased veterans of the liberation struggle as there was persistent appeal for all to be considered as national heroes and heroines. The Committee however, observed that the position cited in the Act was reasonably acceptable since funeral assistance was given to all equally regardless of the deceased’s social standing. The Committee also noted that determination of hero status and associated benefits was however covered by a different piece of legislation and thus, could not expressly be covered by the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act.
6.7 The Committee observed with concern that some additional issues raised were addressed by the Act. An example was the claim that adult veterans of the liberation struggle were not explicitly covered under the educational scheme or benefit. It was noted that access to the education benefit was addressed by Sections 12 (a) (ii) and 16 (b) of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Act. The Committee however, emphasized the need to ensure the fulfillment of the administrative obligation of availing adequate financial resources on time by the responsible Ministry.
6.8 While recognising the Act’s progressive provisions on the land question, the Committee observed that veterans of the liberation struggle maintained that it was high time they were exempted from paying land tax as a gesture of appreciation for their indisputable sacrifice. Noting that some benefits such as exemptions from tollgate fees and import duty could be dealt with administratively, they emphatically called for a clause in the Act that clearly exempted them from paying land tax as opposed to leaving it to the discretion of administrators.
6.9 Another area of concern observed by the Committee involved the use of ‘may’ especially on matters regarding awarding of benefits. The Committee noted that petitioners preferred substituting ‘may’ with either ‘shall’ or ‘must’, the latter being stronger words that compelled the responsible authorities to act in a manner that did not disadvantage veterans of the liberation struggle in one way or the other.
6.10 The Committee discovered that the six-month period for incarceration of ex-political prisoners, detainees and restrictees provided for by the Act was opposed by the petitioners and the War Veterans League. The petitioners still argued that the given period would inevitably and unfairly live out a lot of cadres who were at the mess of the enemy’s brutality for periods far less than the provided period. Hence, they maintained that a 90-day period was reasonably acceptable.
6.11 The Committee noted that veterans of the liberation struggle grieved over the 16-year cut off point for determining who qualified as a war collaborator. As was the case with other provisions of a similar nature, the cut off age had the potential of unfairly living out eligible cadres who assisted guerrillas in several ways during the protracted armed struggle. It was observed that they maintained the age of 14 years as fairly reasonable even though they argued that girls as young as 12 years were in some cases recruited as active informants during the liberation struggle.
6.12 The Committee observed that the petitioners were concerned about the Act’s failure to expressly state that all Vetting Officers were supposed to be veterans of the liberation struggle, particularly those who held positions of authority such as ex-commanders, chiefs or headmen. While recognising the Ministry’s undertaking that specifying qualifications for vetting officers is an administrative issue, the Committee noted that the petitioners stood by their submission that it had to be explicitly stated in the Act.
6.13 The Committee noted that the power of appointing the Chairperson of the Veterans of the Liberation Struggle Board is vested in the President of Zimbabwe. However, it was suggested that the Act had to categorically emphasize that chairmanship had to be rotated between ZANLA and ZPRA cadres.
6.14 The Committee noted the call for a clause in the Act on parliamentary seats specifically reserved for veterans of the liberation struggle. The argument proffered was that the legacy of the struggle for independence and the welfare of veterans of the liberation struggle was better understood and represented by one of their own.
6.15 The Committee noted that the call for recognition, honour and respect of veterans of the liberation struggle was constitutional (as enshrined on Section 23 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment [No.20] 2013). The Committee observed that the provision of honorary medals was long overdue. The liberation war fighters were concerned about the delay in fulfilling that obligation by the responsible authorities. While acknowledging that the matter was purely administrative, it was stressed that the matter be treated with the urgency it deserved as most beneficiaries were dying before receiving their medals.
7.0 Recommendations
By 30 September 2021, the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs should amend the Act to provide for the following:
- The definition of ‘non-combatant cadre’ should read as ‘any person accredited as such in terms of this Act who, having crossed any of Zimbabwe’s borders for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of ZANLA or ZPRA forces, but due to circumstances beyond his or her control, did not get military training and remained in the transit camp (specifically a holding camp) in Mozambique, Botswana and Zambia until 29 November 1979;’
- The definition of ‘transit camp’ should read as ‘any camp for the temporary accommodation of any persons who crossed Zimbabwe’s borders for the purposes of participating in the liberation struggle as a member of the ZANLA or ZPRA forces;’
iii. The definition of ex-political prisoners, detainees and restrictees should read as ‘any person who after the 1st January, 1959, was imprisoned, detained, or restricted in Zimbabwe for a period of at least 90 days, or for two or more periods amounting to not less than 90 days, for political activity in connection with the bringing about of Zimbabwe’s independence on the 18th April, 1980;’
- The definition of war collaborator should read as ‘any person who had at least attained the age of 14 years by the 31st December, 1979 and who in the period between 1975 until the 29th February, 1980, was consistently and persistently closely linked with the operations of the war veterans …;’
- Clause 12 (3) should be read as ‘the Minister shall, within the resources available and after negotiations with veterans of the liberation struggle, prescribe a gratuity, payable once only, to a veteran of the liberation struggle.’
- Section 3, Clause 2 (a) should read as ‘…a war veteran, appointed on a rotational basis from the ZANLA and ZPRA camps, by the Minister after consultation with the President, who shall be the Chairperson of the Board…;’
vii. Engage representative associations of veterans of the liberation struggle to unpack, giving timelines on how and when they intend to implement those administrative obligations made in response to the issues raised by the affected stakeholders;
viii. All veterans of the liberation struggle should receive bravery medals such as those given to Chiefs.
- The Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs should amend the Constitution to provide for the veterans of the liberation struggle quota in the membership of Parliament by January 2022.
8.0 Conclusion
While acknowledging the various progressive provisions of the Veterans of the liberation Struggle Act [Chapter 17:12], the Committee implores the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans Affairs to consider the petitioners’ observations. Indeed, the Committee appreciates the Ministry’s undertaking that most of the concerns raised could be resolved administratively without necessarily amending the Act and hence, it is hoped that the implementation should be expedited in order to fulfill those administrative obligations.
Informed by these pertinent observations, I now commend this report for consideration by the august House. I thank you.
+HON. S. K. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to speak on this petition which is important and seeks to address the plight of the war veterans. When analysing this good report delivered by the Hon. Chairperson, I congratulate him. My wish is that the report be adopted as it would assist many war veterans. I usually meet war veterans and they show that they are distressed by not being taken care of.
I also noted that there are areas that were left out, particularly issue pertaining to non-combatant cadres. It is easy to make a follow up on these individuals because there are records of the names of people who contributed in the struggle kept by the Ministry of Social Welfare. These people were assisted by the United Nations on their repatriation and records are available such that follow ups can be made. Therefore, it is easy to separate the non-combatant cadres and individuals that want to benefit where they did not contribute. The fact that they returned without undergoing training was not their fault. They are supposed to receive the benefits because they sacrificed their lives by virtue of leaving this country to go to countries that were mentioned by Hon. Brig. Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome. My wish is that, through His Excellency the President of Zimbabwe, who is a listening President, these people could be taken care of.
I also noted a challenge on vetting officers. When we were going around with the Committee, people complained that some of these vetting officers are abusing their offices. The war veterans who are supposed to benefit from the programme are made to fail the vetting and those people that offer bribes to the vetting officers are the ones that get shortlisted, the genuine ones being turned back. On these grounds, they suggested a term of two years for the vetting officers and that they should rotate. The officers should come from both military wings and be from all the provinces. I also noted that there is a board which was commissioned by the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. This board should be composed of ZANLA and ZPRA and be from all provinces. This is a pertinent appeal that I implore Government to adopt. We have the devolution and the fruits of devolution are that people from all provinces should be catered for.
What I also want to add is the issue of medals and identification cards which show that you are a war veteran. The war veterans are requesting to be issued with identification cards which show that they are war veterans. The ones which they were given during vetting some have been misplaced and others are worn out. These cards were made of plastic; there is no office that has been set to replace them or to issue these cards. So, their appeal was that the cards be produced and also there be an office that deals with the issuing of the cards.
Another point I want to add in on Heroes Acre, the Heroes Acres are maintained by the Museums but the National Heroes Acre is the only one that is being maintained. War veterans are saying the Provincial Heroes Acres where some war veterans are buried are embarrassing. The Heroes Acres are only visited when a member is laid to rest, after that no-one ever goes there to check on their condition. There are requesting that these Heroes Acres be placed under the relevant ministry so that they get maintained. In some of the Heroes Acres the fence has been stolen because there is no one guarding the premises. There are no toilets, neither is there potable water. I would like to thank the Hon. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to speak. I thank you.
*HON. DZUMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity regarding the motion. That is why I was not debating much before diving into this important debate. I am saying this Mr. Speaker Sir, because I am one of the war veterans that are still alive. This was quite a big task. A lot of our war veterans sacrificed their education and their future going to Mozambique, Zambia and other countries because they were passionate about their country. They did this and worked together with other war veterans to liberate Zimbabwe. There was no food or incentives, be it food and clothing, but these were people who sacrificed their lives sleeping in bushes and risky areas. They did not have access to clean water but they used traditional methods of water purification. They consumed water which was contaminated at times with worms. So the water which seemed to be clean was not necessarily clean because it was contaminated.
My desire is that what is obtaining at the National Heroe’s Acre should be replicated in every province and my desire is that all these places should be maintained by the National Museums and Monuments and council authorities should continue availing land for heroes acres in different areas so that when stories are being told of Zimbabwe’s heroes the young would know what our national heroes went through because in some of these places the only people who visit are those who drive. Some young people might grow up not knowing their history.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this is a very good thing that happened, especially working on this Constitution because when we look at History we discover that those who went to the liberation struggle were young people and these young people went through several challenges crossing borders and where they were they had no clothes and there were no blankets. The challenge that these young people faced is that the situation at the borders did not permit movement. At the refugee camps, the young people were forced to sleep in the open without any blankets because of logistical challenges. Those who were fortunate used sacks as blankets. This means that in the event that camps were bombed, everyone was vulnerable because bombs do not select who to target.
Most people survived by chance not by design. I remember a personal experience when I was very thin. You could even count my ribs by merely looking at me. I did not know that at one point I would be big like a kitchen. My desire is that if funds were available in Zimbabwe, Government would fund another vetting exercise so that those who did not benefit from the previous disbursement could benefit this time and those who benefited also need some additional benefits as a result of the contribution and the sacrifices they made during the liberation struggle.
My desire is that we expedite this debate so that it goes to the upper House and eventually to the Executive so that by end of the year, war veterans receive their gratuities. I am saying this because I appreciate their sacrifices and I would like to implore the authorities to commence vetting exercise which will determine those who participated in the struggle, those who were at the camps but did not receive any military training and war collaborators.
Without wasting time, let me point out that the plight of war veterans is not exclusive to one political party but it cuts across the political divide. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the ZPRA War Veterans for having brought this petition to this august House and also thank the Committee on Defence through its competent Chairperson who has brought in the report.
My view pertaining to this petition and also to the report that the Committee has brought to this august House is that it talks a lot on issues that have not been addressed. We are in 2021, which is 41 years after independence. It is actually sad that we have a lot of gaps pertaining to the war veterans that fought the liberation war.
I met one woman who went to war and she was an author, her name was Freedom Nyamubaya. She is late and was awarded a provincial hero status. In her writings, she bemoaned the very issues that the ZPRA War Veterans are crying for. Freedom Nyamubaya mentioned that a number of people who claim today to have participated and done well during the liberation war, some of them did not do anything but only took advantage and became the loudest. They took positions of authority after the independence and yet the real fighters, some of them up to date, have not benefited from the liberation war.
Freedom used to say that and I concur with her view that “in my view, I would have wanted a situation where the people that fought for the liberation of this country are regarded as freedom fighters not as war veterans”. The term war veteran, in my view, tends to say a person who has participated in other wars be it DRC or Mozambique but there should be a distinction to these people so that they are highly honoured and celebrated as our freedom fighters.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my only problem with our Committee on Defence is that the petitioner requested Parliament to amend the War Veterans Act. I am also sure the wisdom upon which the request by ZPRA War Veterans was subjected to the War Veterans League scrutiny. In my view, the reasoning and the findings of the Committee tend to dovetail with the comments that were coming from the league. In my view, there is an attempt to belittle the view from the ZPRA War Veterans. We know the history of this country that a number of ZPRA War Veterans have not benefited compared to the ZANLA ones primarily because of the history that happened after 1980.
However, I was going to be happier if the Committee had come with a draft Bill. Remember, Parliament has started a programme and a month or two; there was a virtual training on Members Private Bills. I believe that when a petition comes, rather than to say ‘Ministry of Defence we are giving you up to 30 September to amend’ - the problem is that the Executive may decide, in its own wisdom, not to prioritise the work. This is where I would have loved a situation where our committees are empowered, working with Counsel to Parliament, to come with the amendment to the Bill so that we have amendments to this particular Bill from the Portfolio Committee. The Committee was supposed to be reporting what they got both from the ZPRA War Veterans and the League of War Veterans.
This issue of making recommendations does not do justice to the prayer that the petitioners are crying for. The truth of the matter is that when the ZPRA War Veterans get this report, they will simply feel that Parliament should have done more. I actually want to urge you Mr. Speaker Sir, that I think in future, when we get such petitions, we need to empower Parliamentary Committees to go beyond the issue of making recommendations but work with Counsel to Parliament and produce the relevant amendments that they have seen to make sense rather than to pile work on the Ministry which may have other priorities.
Lastly, I just want to talk pertaining to the issue of provincial heroes, the district heroes. Mr. Speaker, if you go to certain District and Provincial Heroes Acres, the state of those places leaves a lot to be desired.
Secondly, there is another problem that we have seen in this country. There are people that went to war that deserve to have been buried at district or provincial heroes acres. I know for instance in Harare, some people that we knew went to war are actually buried haphazardly as they were denied places even at district or provincial level, but guess what, Soul Jah Love was buried at the Provincial Heroes Acre. If you have a mechanism where you leave the decision of who is going to be a national, provincial or district hero to a selective group of people, they will make decisions based on their feelings.
The system should actually be very clear and I think what the ZIPRA war veterans are actually asking for is the truth. We need a clear system to simply say no, when Hon. Mushoriwa passes on he is going straight to the National, Provincial or District Heroes Acre. We do not want to have a situation that tomorrow what then happens is that you find the vetting committee has people that have no liberation credentials. What happens if you then find the next President who may not have inclination towards the liberation history? I think we need the last few that are remaining of the freedom fighters, to actually decide and determine the way to go.
Mr. Speaker, it is wrong in my view as I sit down to simply pay lip-service to these freedom fighters. I believe that the freedom fighters deserve more than what this country is giving them. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker having recognised Hon. Major General (Rtd) Khumalo as Hon. S. S. Khumalo
HON. MAJOR GENERAL (RTD) KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to-
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. In view of this debate, may this be the first day in Parliament that we respect war veterans who have been leading this country from a general point of view, to be referred to as Hon. General Retired Khumalo. May it be a way of doing so because it is a position that is earned through liberating this country but we also call professors who have never liberated this country Hon. Prof. Ncube? For him to be a professor, it is the generals that made him a professor. So, this has got to be common practice in this Parliament from today that the generals who sacrificed for this country must be called Hon. Retired General Khumalo, Hon. Retired Brigadier General Mayihlome and Hon. Retired General Late Chief Air Marshall P. Shiri. That is what they deserve and that is what it is. That shows we respect them and we are here because of them. That is my intervention.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): Thank you Hon. Mliswa but the problem is that I just follow the names as they appear on the virtual platform but what you are saying is true.
HON. T. MLISWA: Even for the Speaker who is not here, that must be the way he must now refer to them. That is all I am saying. It must start from today.
HON. MAJOR GENERAL (RTD) KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to this very important topic. The topic here raised that we amend the War Veterans Act on certain issues albeit being promulgated in a very few months’ time left a lot of gaps within the Act to raise a question as to whether really we were serious about what we were doing for the war veterans because surely, if we are going to make an amendment to an Act that is not even six months old, that question arises as to whether we were fair to the topic about war veterans, albeit its recognition in the Constitution of the land that war veterans must be accorded all the respect that go with the sacrifice and duties that they carried out to liberate the Republic of Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker, yes it required some definition about ‘non-combatant cadre and transit camp’ which I believe in the report, the Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services clearly spelt out what needed to be corrected and how it needed to be corrected. I may not need to go over that again but let me touch on certain things that were discussed as we debated on this petition.
The first one being - while the war veterans have got a constitutional recognition, do we really recognise them? As Hon. Mliswa has been saying here that when we get to Parliament we are not recognised through our titles as members who participated in the liberation and also members who participated in the defence and protection of what we gained in the liberation struggle, albeit we retired and then decided that we were going to continue with the work for our country in this august House and asked people to vote for us and they brought us here. You will realise that it is perhaps by omission that people address me with my title or even General Mayihlome. We have a serious problem on this thing just by way of addressing each other accurately or correctly, whichever applies. Hon. Speaker Sir, I think we need to emphasise in the Act on top of what the ZIPRA War Veterans have said – we need to emphasise the need to strictly apply the provisions of the Constitution because it is the supreme law of the land.
The other thing that I want to bring to your attention: now that we are veterans of the liberation struggle and being veterans of the liberation struggle in the Act and Constitution; we are categories as war veterans, the war collaborators, the prisoners and those that went through detention. These categories must be specifically specified so that we do not have confusion as to who is who. Yes, we are veterans of the liberation through participation in the liberation struggle but the participation on its own has got its own categories, because there are those that were prepared for combat and conducted combat or the liberation of the country.
There are those that supported the war veterans and fighters; there are those that were imprisoned for participating in national politics to achieve the liberation of our country but these have got their own categories. These categories can never be grouped together to mean one thing. They will always remain as categories of veterans of the liberation struggle. This thing must always carry those categories for it to always remain distinctly clear to the people of Zimbabwe and internationally. This will remain clear without ambiguity or anything of that nature.
When we made the report on the Act for the War Veterans, we mentioned that war veterans were not supposed to pay land tax, because war veterans fought for that land. I think this phrase was missed when the Act was promulgated and passed as an Act for the war veterans because we are saying the war veterans went to war and when they participated in the war, they gained very little benefit other than gaining independence for our country. Yes, the war veterans were given a pension which to date is being given, but is that really matching the level of participation that was there.
We may argue that perhaps it is either too late but we can never be too late on an issue where a war veteran who really fought the Rhodesian administration for them to let go our country from colonisation and then we say we are now liberated and then we say the war veterans are supposed to pay the land tax. I think it is a bit not rewarding enough for the effort put by the war veteran because remember Mr. Speaker Sir, whilst I do not have details about how the colonisers partitioned and rewarded each other of the land in Zimbabwe and Southern Rhodesia then, it is the veterans of the Second World War and the other wars that were fought by Europe that came here and were rewarded by giving them land and things like that.
I shudder to believe that it is correct that those people were given land, got the farms and everything as a reward by the Queen of England that these are our soldiers and therefore they benefit in Zimbabwe – give them the land, support and everything. That is why they built so much dominant empires in our country. That is what made them fight us for that long – we take them out and we cannot even benefit from whatever piece of land one might have been given as part of the Zimbabwean population and we say we pay tax – where do we then get the benefit of jumping and running around these bushes fighting the white man for us to get this thing. I think that thing needs to be recognised by this Hon. august House that we definitely have somewhere where it is very clear that the war veterans and not the veterans of the liberation struggle – I am sorry to say so but the war veteran himself; the person who took a weapon and fought the Boer and got him out of this country must get that benefit of not paying land tax.
There is also this issue of the 20% that was said to be put aside as provision for war veterans – the resources that seek to empower our population. The 20% must be given to the war veterans. I should say that the veterans of the liberation struggle, because it is proper that if we conducted an audit today, to say we gave people land, stands or whatever – can we do an audit and find out that from all those provisions, is the 20% for the war veterans being recognised or is it there in the first place? I doubt very much we will get it there because the war veteran today is somebody who is taken – I shudder to think; but the war veteran that is out there at home and not here where we are but at home – I have heard people asking them ‘kuti makaenderei kuhondo kwacho?’ That alone tells you about the story of how war veterans find themselves being looked down upon by everyone and it becomes a very disturbing issue to see veterans of the liberation struggle in that type of situation.
There is the issue of medication for veterans of the liberation struggle. The hospitals are supposed to provide them with medication, but that is not happening. Those who are lucky enough to have that opportunity to get the medication are those ones that have got connections. I am sorry to say so but that is what happens. They have got connections and therefore, they can go and get treated. Perhaps they get the little that is available for veterans of t he liberation struggle to get medical provisions that they require. The veterans of the liberation struggle today are what I consider on the upper age of society, in the late 50s, into 60s and what have you. Once you get to that age, you tend to have more ailments, therefore needing more attention medically for you to go through the provision of life given to you by God. Therefore, you need more care et cetera but do the veterans of the liberation struggle get that more care? I will tell you Mr. Speaker Sir that they get very little because most of them have left the urban life and are in the rural communities. In those rural communities, it is survival of the fittest because the veterans will fall ill but do not have money to transport themselves to medical facilities. I think the care or medical provision that we make for our veterans of the liberation struggle must and need to be improved so that they get adequate medical attention. I suppose Mr. Speaker Sir, the board is there and we cannot comment much about what the board for the veterans of the liberation struggle has done but I would urge that the board and the chief director conscientise themselves that the veterans of the liberation struggle are diverse people and therefore, they have to take care of them along that diversity so that they become more involved in programmes that seek to assist veterans of the liberation struggle. With those few words Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this debate. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Section 84 of our Constitution is very clear in terms of the rights of the veterans of the liberation struggle. The most critical one is Section 84 (c) which talks about those who were imprisoned, detained or restricted for political reasons during the liberation struggle are entitled to due recognition for their contribution to the liberation of Zimbabwe and to suitable welfare such as pension and access to basic health care. This is the real issue here that from a constitutional point of view, what has the country done to ensure that this is in place.
First of all, since 1980 to date, the current leadership of this country has been war veterans. The question that I must ask is, are they true war veterans when they know that others are suffering, when they know that there were people who sacrificed for this country? It goes without saying that you choose your own when it comes to issues of recognition, issues of empowerment. How come the leadership of this country, since 1980, has never chosen their own, not only that, have never done anything for their own. Our generation and other generations to come know nothing about war veterans and now they want us to be hated by the war veterans who are living today. I was not in the struggle. I do not know which commander is there and so forth but they have neglected their own and shame on the leadership of this country. Shame on them! Today the war veterans are the most disregarded human beings in this country. Some of them are mentally traumatised. When you see them wanting something, murikutsvageyi? Exactly what Hon. Rtd. Khumalo said that, makaendera chii kuhondo? Why did you go to the struggle? Hon. Rtd. General Mayihlome must be thanked for coming up with this petition report. After the promulgation of the Act, let us be very clear, administrators administer the Act. Let them not lie to you that if you do not change it, we will administer, they do not have the power to do that. The role of administrators is to administer the Act not to change the Act. They are not being true and sincere when they are saying that we will deal with it administratively, yet administratively they have failed to comply with the Constitution, let alone the Act.
How come we are at this point when pretty clearly what the petitioners are saying is what you have left out? We discussed it and it is not in the Act. Why is it not in the Act? They cannot now begin and reason that the administrators will deal with it. When the administrators are administering, they administer the Act. It is important without any negotiations that whatever was left out is brought in accordingly and the administrators act according to what the Act says. This has gone on for too long. It is a deliberate attempt to continuously frustrate the veterans of the struggle. There are people sitting in these offices and their job is to frustrate them and they know when they are frustrated, these are disciplined cadres who do not argue. In so doing, because they are disciplined cadres, at times they are not the best people to run the affairs because there is hierarchy. Some of them are compromised because they belong to political parties which is your choice and that political party, again if you do not comply with it, you are expelled.
We now need to define the war veterans of the struggle. It is not talking of a veteran of MDC, a veteran of ZANU PF, a veteran of ZAPU, it is talking about a veteran of the struggle and the struggle was about this country. I have learnt that they are easily intimidated because they are disciplined to a point that the leadership which we saw politically in the country, some of them never did anything in the struggle but they took advantage of them because they were young. In so doing, they looked for people who were educated to come and assist them sincerely and genuinely but Mr. Speaker Sir, those who were given the chance did not do that.
A good example is that of the former late President R. G. Mugabe. He never went and shot anybody, never carried a gun but they believe that for this struggle to move forward, we need political leaders with intelligence who will be able to carry out the mandate according to the founding principles of the struggle and the ideology which they believed in, that was never done. We gave it time, 37 years and today it is 41 years and still nothing has happened. How then can we trust the current leadership for ensuring that it happens? The generals that you see today were part of the struggle and they know each other. With a lot happening, we cannot ignore the events of life – death. If I was a commander and I trained X, if I die, who will say X was a commander? Now, we have the problem that most people were trained by certain commanders and cannot now say this commander because the commander is no more. Why? because of a delayed process of the vetting taking time and so forth. At the end of the day, the real war veteran is not out there. The fake war veteran is the one who is out there. He gets to a meeting, try to be pompous, tells everybody to keep quite but true war veterans remain humble. They are full of humility. Now we have a problem of fake war veterans who are there who are talking too much and even castigating other war veterans. We have war veterans who castigate the likes of Mai Mujuru, saying that she never put a plane down and she was never part of the struggle when he himself never even held a gun. Today, he tells us because he is educated and has got all this vocabulary to castigate people who liberated this country. We cannot allow a situation like that. This is what we have.
We have got ZPRA and ZANU. The unity accord has not been implemented accordingly. The reason is that those in power are taking advantage because the likes of the late Joshua Nkomo, the late Dumiso Dabengwa, the late Msika and the late John Nkomo are not there who were the leaders of this. So, there is a vacuum on who represents ZPRA. ZPRA is being treated unfairly. Where are the properties which were taken from ZPRA? If we are talking about unity, where are the properties which were taken from ZPRA? Long ago, we said they must be given back to ZPRA and ZPRA is always neglected. Give them their properties. Let them look after themselves. I say so because my father was in ZAPU in Zambia and I know what he did. Retired General Mutinhiri will tell you about the role my father played. Comrade S. K. Moyo will tell you about the role my father played. Our house was nearly bombarded but today when it comes to the eating of the cake, others have a bigger piece and others have less.
Today, ZPRA does not want to talk, it is quiet. It is about time that the leadership of this country knows that they will not go anywhere with a unity which is not sincere. They must now look back and say what they are doing, is it what they agreed with the late Joshua Nkomo? Was it part of the agreement or there are certain things which have been left out? The tears of the people bring a nation to suffer. We are Africans, we have got a tradition. Do not think by people being quiet, they are not speaking. They speak inside and a dangerous person is the one who keeps things inside and does not speak. I am better, I speak. I do not carry anything but those who do not speak, certainly are praying to a God and God listens to those who are quiet. Prayer is not about speaking to God loudly. Prayer is about being quiet too, talking to God. They are hurting and this needs to be addressed. There is need to be sincere in the way things are being done.
The War Veterans Association is there. There is the Veterans League. It is the biggest war that you will see. Where does the association and the league fit in. Now, we have got War Veterans League under ZANU PF. The War Veterans Association is independent. War veterans are free to join any party they want and all bodies must be independent because they are the trustees of this country. When you become a trustee, you have to be independent. Now that we have the association and the War Veterans League, who listens to who? The War Veterans League is under ZANU PF. Is it ZANU PF that went and fought this war on its own? What about those war veterans who have decided not to be involved in political parties? They can now not benefit because they do not belong to a party. That cannot be allowed – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That is negligence and discrimination on its own. If Comrade Zuma decided to be at home at his village as a war veteran and does not belong to a party, let us recognise him as the Constitution says that we need to give them due recognition for their welfare, health care and so forth. We have a problem here; they cannot be used as a campaigning too for ruling parties.
They were used to liberate this country so that we are free, independent and as a result, we saw it in the Second Republic when it was ushered in. It was the war veterans. I remember myself, everybody contributed. We contributed money and a lot of things where we are here with Comrade Matemadanda and Comrade Mahiya and nobody will be there but today the people benefiting were never even part of it. When the President came back from where he had gone, the very same war veterans who ushered in the new era were now being chased away that you cannot be here. I saw that myself. Not only that, they are constantly used because they are disciplined. Being disciplined does not mean that you must take advantage of them. That is what is critical at the end of the day.
We have a situation where the elected Chairman of the War Veterans’ Association was Jabulani Sibanda. A lot happened and he was out. He was ZAPU – ZPRA. I thought he would be replaced by ZPRA. By then, Comrade Mutsvangwa went in from ZANU. Ah, ah, ah, can we replace a proportional representation woman who is no longer there by putting a man there. It goes back to a woman. So, what belongs to ZPRA must go back to ZPRA. Now we have this situation. These are the underlying problems which are there, are not being discussed and I want to open up today so that the country knows that there is no unity that we talk about. We are short changed in many ways and for as long as that unity is not there, there will never be prosperity for Zimbabwe.
The petition left out a critical issue. When are those bodies going to be exhumed? How can you today be in a country when you know your dear comrades who were buried all over are not back in their villages? They have not been declared dead and we are quiet and then we say that it is sanctions. It is a curse because we cannot do our own things. You cannot allow bodies of people who liberated this country to be out there and we are still quiet but we have got money to buy cars for chiefs. Who liberated this country? It was the war veterans working with the chiefs. The chiefs are enjoying cars yet the veterans of the struggle have no cars; 35000 are the only ones left. Can we not build 35000 houses for them? Can we not give them 35000 medical cards? Can we not be able to exempt them from paying taxes like Hon. Rtd. Khumalo said?
If we go to the Tengwe block, that facility was for people who fought for the British, who were given farms in the Tengwe block in Hurungwe. It was specifically for people who were rewarded by the British Government to come and be given land in Zimbabwe yet we are finding it difficult to give land to those who took land from them. When you go to Hurungwe, you say no the ZPRA commanders must not be getting land. I remember Ambassador General Nicholas Dube, I had to tell him, you are not going anywhere. They told him you are Ndebele, you cannot be here and I reminded them that it is the Ndebeles who liberated Hurungwe; we will not be seeing Shonas if we talk about that. So, let him have his piece because he fought for it. He deserves to be here.
Even during the Land Reform Programme, there was discrimination which was never part of the struggle. I am highlighting issues of discrimination which have been critical in us not making any leeway pertaining to these issues. You want to talk about the provincial boards. Now the President, to my mind, must not be involved in the politics of the war veterans. He must be independent. He is the father of the nation.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are left with five minutes.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am sure somebody will add some time because I think I am doing well from here. To me, the President himself must not be part of the War Veterans Association because he is the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, meaning he is a father for everyone. That being the case, there is independence. Again, let them choose their own people whom they want; whom they know and let them remove them too. It is important that, that system is in place. That is the reason why today some of the provincial war veterans and some of the national war veterans are not recognised as veterans of the struggle. There can be veterans of the economy and veterans of music but they are not veterans of the struggle. We must be able to separate that. A veteran of music, a veteran of economics and a veteran of the struggle – why putting a veteran of music where veterans of the struggle are? You are now mixing water and oil, has it ever happened? It has never happened. Already, you have totally lost their respect in terms of who they are.
These issues of provincial and national heroes, the Comrades must sit down in these structures and apply a bottom-top approach and say this is the person that we want. Most of the members of politburo of ZANU PF never went to the struggle. They are cheer leaders and so, how do they comment on somebody who they never saw in the struggle and they were never seen in the struggle? How does that happen? This is how flawed the system is. A party must not choose who the national heroes are. This board which is put in place must also be given the responsibility of choosing the war veterans provincially and nationally. That is how it should be like because you know who is who at the end of the day. The danger of you saying the President must be voted a President in 30 years who was never a war veteran, you are doing this now for political expediency so that you please the President by saying he is the patron. What about when the President – whoever, with God’s ways is no longer a war veteran, what will you do? Let us have laws which ensure that we are in this game for a long time not for a short time.
There is no party that is in power all its life. In Zambia you saw what happened with UNIPand so forth. We must be able to separate offices from this. The President cannot be involved in the controversy of this. The former President R. G. Mugabe, was the person of the war veterans and may I ask, what did he do? May His Soul rest in peace, but may I ask what did he do? Today you are complaining that he used us to be violent, this and that. Today people do not want to see you. He is rested in peace and you are walking in poverty. It is important that we are able to understand that.
The other issue is that we now must have the 20% which they have been given, it must not only be at national. War veterans must go even at district level and have your 20%. Provincial levy have a 20% nationally as well. It must be down there. There is not much time left for you and if I were you, I would speed up. There was an outcry when they demanded the US$50 0000. Honestly, people attacked them for something which was nothing. They had not been looked after for a long time and what is US$50 000.00, given to people who have sacrificed their life? Is there a price for life, there is no price for life. In Parliament I agree.
We should have them here and they must sit down and name who should be in Parliament. The same way with the disabled, youth and the same way we have gone with the women. Amongst the women in Parliament, how many are war veterans, there are none and so, who pushes their agenda? If we talk about the war veterans agenda being pushed, it is only war veterans who can push the agenda. When people are disabled, it is only those who are disabled who can push the agenda of the disabled. You and I are able bodied and times we forget. Let us have people who are in terms of that.
I am not happy that the petitioner and the Act does not consider the spirit mediums why? We had Mbuya Nehanda commemoration the other day but in the Constitution of the country, they are not there yet we say she led the struggle spiritually. How many spirit mediums are in the country and what have you done to sustain that whole thing? They are not happy too. I can tell you that I have gone to a few areas and I visited Njelele and I went there with war veterans to understand what is happening. Those shrines are not well kept but if we believe they are the very same shrine that led us at independence, why are you forgetting them today what did they want – they just wanted to be recognised. They want have their brew once a year and that is it.
There is too much hypocrisy and these events which are done of Mbuya Nehanda are not done properly. You saw the chiefs going to the President – who is a chief to a spirit medium? A chief is a subordinate to a spirit medium. How many spirit mediums were there? There as not even an African brew. Hwahwa hwechibhoi kubika doro mopembera – vakabvisa bhutsu wani mumatare, vamwe tsvimbo vanga vasina, ndicho chivanhu chacho here ichocho? What culture is that? And then after that they are told to go to HICC and collect cars. They did not come to commemorate Mbuya Nehanda. The spirit mediums must be given their space to do what they need to do. That is why this country is cursed. We are not following the tradition and the norms that we should.
These are issues which I am talking about in terms of the petitioners which are missing which I am equally saying that even today, the ZAPU position of the VP – why do the ZIPRA cadres not sit down and choose who they want to be their VP? That is what it is. Joshua Nkomo was undoubtedly the father of the nation and the leader of Zapu...
[TIME LIMIT]
HON. TOFFA: Hon. Speaker Sir, I move that his time be increased for another 5 minutes.
HON. J. CHIDAKWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: We know the situation where you have these transit camps - the issue of people who did not participate in the struggle but those transit camps, just being there was a risk. Some were bombarded and so how can we not recognise them today? Once you sacrifice and you are in a transit camp, already, it is something under the radar and it is targeted. When they want to destroy, they go in it. It goes without saying that this is something that has got to be done without even any doubt. Once an Act is in place, it becomes difficult to change it. That is why I keep on repeating that the administrators cannot come and tell us that this is what is happening.
The issue of the Vice President vacancy, is a ZAPU position and some ZAPU members and Zipra members are there – why are they not sitting down to nominate who they want and give it to the President can make the final decision. The process has been done but the prerogative lies with the President for a Vice President to be appointed on a ZAPU ticket and you have not spoken to them and they have not sat down to agree who it is, the prerogative and final say is for the President but consultation would have been made with interested parties. This is how bad it has been, that they are totally ignored even in choosing who their father must be – musarapavana. In our culture it is never like that. You give a chance for people to choose musarapavana ndiani and the process continues and so forth. That is already a problem on its own.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to talk about the private hospitals. It is really painful – when a person has what they have done, all they want is their land, inputs, education for their children and a better health care. This is not there. Some of them are even ashamed to call them war veterans when they go to these hospitals because the country seems to hate them and yet they are hated because of the decision the leadership has made. The leadership has put them in a very compromising position, in a position where they cannot be proud to be veterans of the struggle. It will take a lot and as time is passing by, they are becoming more irrelevant as a result of leadership delaying the processes which are constitutional, the processes which they know very well.
So, if the late President R. G. Mugabe with the power that he had could not do it, we are now looking forward to His Excellency E. D. Mnagangwa to now start and finish off because it never started anyway. This must start and finish off properly and he must understand that it is in the interest of the country from a constitutional point of view, nothing else but from a constitutional point of view. I am happy that the chiefs get cars but I would now like to see war veterans getting better health, pensions and education for their kids.
The farms that they own are being downsized right now by the current Minister of Lands, yet he is leaving the white farmers because they are being productive. The white farmers are productive because they are being given money, yet he goes to downsize farms for war veterans yet they have no inputs. You want them to be part of the Presidential Input Scheme where they are queuing up – aaah, let us not do that to them. Why do you allow them with the recognition that they deserve to queue up for one bag of 10kgs of mbeu or 50kgs of D and Ammonium Nitrate fertiliser? They must have their own scheme where they are given what they want. The tractors that are coming through, a portion must go to the war veterans and then we know that we are recognising according to the Constitution, the liberators of this struggle and so forth.
Again, I am glad that the people who have been vetting, as has been alluded to, must be given a timeframe. A lot of them have died, just four years ago, we were talking about 50 000 war veterans and now we are down to 35 000 and the figure does not grow by the way – the figure does not grow. It is growing less and less and when it gets less and less, resources must be made available. What I did not like about the petition was ‘resources permitting’. No, that must be out – never allow anything to read ‘resources permitting’, because resources will never permit. So in the Act, I would like that to be dealt with, the same way you said ‘shall’ must be replaced with ‘must’. Resources permitting is not proper. They must provide this not with resources permitting – that must be out because they always hide behind that yet the diamonds are there, the gold is there, the money is there and all the Ministers say, there are no resources permitting, yet we have these Pension Funds that are there like NSSA.
We see all these scandals, the biggest looting company ever which every Minister who goes there, instead of dealing with labour issues, they are dealing with looting at NSSA. It seems that most of the Ministers go to loot there yet the NSSA money could be used to build houses for the war veterans through the National Building Society (NBS) that they have. It is just a Government organ and then Government pays for these war veterans in the housing that would have been produced. Here is $400 million housing NSSA again, why does the NSSA money not go towards us helping the war veterans?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I really want to thank you for giving me this opportunity but to also buttress the point that we need to be sincere about this. We can no longer have war veterans talking here, most of them would like to say a lot but they cannot because of their nature of being disciplined. You saw Hon. Nduna, for the first time spoke …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order, order! Hon. Member, your time again has expired.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir and I am hoping that there will be great contributions from Hon. Shamu who really started the 21st February Movement and was instrumental in the war veterans. He is one man that I wish we could be talking to. He respects the war veterans and is one of them. So try and find people who are true and sincere to be able to do that but lastly, you will never achieve what you want to achieve for your people as long as you remain timid. The bravery you showed in liberating this country must be the bravery you show in pushing for your friends and families who are no longer here today. I thank you – [(v)AN HON. MEMBER: Hon. Speaker, we are also here!]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Say I am also there. We are seeing you there. Hon. Member, I just have one person on virtual and I am going to give him the chance to contribute.
*HON. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important debate. Hon. Brig. Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome’s report touched a lot on the issue of liberation war heroes. There are issues that have not been fixed and given my age, some of the war veterans are my relatives and parents.
When I hear the story of liberation war heroes, I see brave men and women, dedication and self denial of people giving up their lives for the liberation of this country. This actually gave me an opportunity to learn the direction that our country came from and where it is headed. Hon. Brig. Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome’s report highlights existing gaps that gave rise to this petition. Looking at the response that is coming from the Ministry, it is actually clear that there is nothing that is very difficult to find. I think that the issue that is there is that we need to fix the issue of war veterans, if we agree that these people are important, then why is it taking too long for us to resolve their issues?
As was alluded to by Hon. Mliswa, we do not see the kind gestures that those in leadership are displaying. They are not displaying any sincerity at all. It is true that some people are not heroes of the liberation struggle and they never participated or did anything of significance hence the reason they derail or delay in taking action on these matters. Some of the war veterans of the liberation struggle are elderly and some of the reports that are written in English will be difficult for them to comprehend due to their age. It is my humble request that whenever we deal with reports coming from the liberation war heroes, we consider their age and also the issue of language. We should use language that is easy for them to comprehend as liberation war heroes.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to touch also on the issue that was alluded to by Hon. Mayihlome to say, war veterans of the liberation struggle should be honoured with an artefact that shows that they went to war or participated in the liberation war struggle. I mentioned that my father and grandfather are liberation war heroes but when we are seated back in the rural areas with my grandfather, no one takes him seriously when he relates what happened during the war. There is nothing that can convince people that he even participated in the liberation struggle and that issue troubles us as a people when we look at the lives of these war veterans. Is there not something that we can do for them to prove and convince others that this individual participated in the liberation war? This is to say that they should be respected wherever they go, a symbol that shows that this particular individual participated in the liberation war. What they did is very important.
Hon. Speaker, I would also want to talk on the issue of transit camps to say who is supposed to be compensated. There are those who did nothing during the liberation struggle. My own point of view is that everyone who participated and everyone who left home should go and be compensated. That particular individual is a hero, that person left everything in their position, gave up their lives and joined the liberation struggle. Indeed, they are people who are getting paid when in actual fact they never participated in the liberation struggle.
These people are enjoying their lives whilst they never did anything. They never experienced any hardships, never contributed to anything yet they are living large this day. Hon. Speaker, I would like to say these same war veterans did not benefit from the Land Programme. Looking closely at this situation on how the war veterans are living, this is Government property, even when Government thinks of constructing a dam at a place where these people are staying, there is nothing they can do. It is now 41 years after the liberation struggle and there is nothing to show for they still have not had the land that they fought for. Why did they go to the liberation struggle because there is nothing to show for it? These are questions we ask ourselves as grandchildren of the war veterans.
In conclusion, I would like to say all those war veterans who gave up their lives for the liberation struggle should be remembered for the efforts they made towards liberating this country. Let us sit down and form these groups of people who are supposed to be accorded this respect. Most of them are grown ups and now that they are grown-ups we must mind the language or criteria that we are going to use. Some have lost memory, comprehension of the events and cannot relate properly.
It is because of some of these things that they will miss out on compensation. My request in this august House is, let us remember that they are grown ups and each individual is different. There are a lot of people who know them, so let us look at such things so that when they pass on, we should be able to remember them. A lot of people will be having knowledge of these different people who participated in the liberation struggle. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for affording me this chance to contribute to this very important motion. I do not have many items or issues to add to this motion but just to emphasize some specific points that have been already raised and some which might not have been raised. Mr. Speaker, the question we must be addressing ourselves is - why should we be talking about war veterans now? Have we not talked about vetting before? What has changed now? Have we not assisted the war veterans before? What has resulted in us wanting to re-assist them? Why do war veterans have to put a petition to Parliament so many years after independence? Do they have to come and beg Parliament to change laws?
The bottom line is, because we are not looking after them. Why should war veterans be seen to struggle to have a seat in Parliament? It is because they cannot look after themselves out there, not because their interest can be better championed when they are in Parliament, otherwise we will simply need one. All of them are finding life so difficult. At a time when we expect a war veteran to be resting, they are struggling to come back so that they make a living. They are struggling to petition Parliament; please look after us and change this law.
The bottom line Mr. Speaker, is people are very greedy. We do not look after each other as Africans. If it was me Mr. Speaker, we do not even need an Act. There is nothing new about war veterans. Why not look at how Smith or Rhodesia looked after its war veterans of the Second World War? My father was one of them. When he went and came back; he went as a small boy at 12 years, he was batman the one who cleans uniforms for the soldiers but after that, he became a pilot and came back as a very big person. His compatriots were given farms but because he was African, he was given at least something that we could see that things are changing for the old man. We were then able to live a peaceful life. He never wanted to go back to work because he was well looked after. America has war veterans - why not take the American Act and look at what the Americans do for their war veterans? Look at our Act Mr. Speaker, there is vetting. We have vetted before, so why do we still want to vet war veterans and vetted by who because most of these war veterans were using war names which have nothing to do with their current names or the previous ones because vetting might cause errors.
I know for a fact Mr. Speaker, that in my constituency. I have several war veterans that are earning money but never went to war. We never raised these issues because we have noticed that everywhere in the country, all other people are stealing in the similar manner. If we disadvantage our own, how will they survive? The vetting process has its own loopholes and this next vetting will bring in some more war veterans, some even younger to have been to war because this is now an eating trough.
The simplest way of vetting should start at a ward. If you ask us in our ward or anybody in the ward, we know who went to war. That board will simple check for the records like where did you go, et cetera but the preliminary vetting of who went to war, we know in every ward. If that was done, it will eliminate a lot of other bogus war veterans that we have heard about. Mr. Speaker, it is my proposal that it is not even necessary to have an Act. If we were really caring, how many war veterans are there for argument sake? If we ask for records which I do not think they have because most of the records are not very accurate. If we really talk about war veterans in the country, currently they could be less than 20 000 or even 10 000; they may struggle to get there. Why, most of them have died because they went to war when they were old and 40 years plus the number of years that they had when they went to war, certainly most of them died without even enjoying the fruits of their independence.
In the next 10 to 15 years, this Act that we want to change will be redundant because all of them, even these who are in Parliament will be dead from natural attrition. Fifteen years is too much if we add to their current years. If we need an Act Mr. Speaker, it is then my argument that we need an Act for the children of war veterans, not for the war veterans. What we simply need for the war veterans is to say, all war veterans will get a salary equal to the salary of a permanent secretary. They are not many and we will not even see them struggle to go to Parliament. The President or Vice President’s pension simple says the ex President will get a salary equal to a sitting President. Why not put a simple statement like that and say a war veteran’s salary will be equal to a serving Brigadier’s salary then we stop there? They will be looked after, respected because they will be smart, eating good food and with a good salary. How do you expect them to be respected when they are wearing slippers in offices and tattered clothes. Some of the conditions of war veterans, all of us are from rural areas, some of the poorest people will tell you I was in the struggle, then you really ask yourselves after all why did you go because most of them are living in abject poverty.
Give them a decent salary. It will not cost the nation because they are very few and after all, after a few days or few years they will be dead. They will no longer be there. It is not even a cost to the nation. Let us look after them in their last days of life. For us to start vetting, the Act - maybe it will take another year before it comes into effect because most of those who are working on the law are living pretty and to them it is not even urgent.
So when it comes we start going to vet in the rural areas. Some will be left out; some are already left out anyway. We know of some that died who did not even benefiting and we know there are people who died and were not vetted because they had already died, but they have families. How selfish are we that we do not even look after each other. I think I want to agree with Hon. Mliswa totally that the problem with us is we have been so greedy to the extent that we do not care about those that brought independence to this country which we are enjoying so much. The few that took advantage of being clever, are abusing those that were not very literate and the sad story is that during the war people were not very selfish. The former President Mugabe was not in the war front initially. They had to fish for him from all over because they realised that some of them were not educated and the war would need educated people. They were recruiting the educated people to try and push them in the forefront of the administration of the war and then they took guns to go to the front, but the clever educated are the ones that abused them later.
You see the unfortunate part, Mr. Speaker, I think it is my view that we do not need an Act, we just need a statement, two paragraphs which will look after the few war veterans that are there because they are not many, so that we do not need them here in Parliament struggling to survive. Even those farms that they are asking for most of them are too old. Let us put an Act for their children and most of them, in any case, I do not think there is a war veteran who has a 13 year old child now. Most of them are too old to make children by now. If they have children they could be post university. So what is it that we are afraid of to just put a statement that will look after the war veterans then we are done with it.
Mr. Speaker, I think these are delaying tactics to try and bring in friends to come and eat in the trough and disadvantage some and we know who these things are targeting. Look at it, $50 000 what did it do? As long as we handle these as piecemeal approaches it will not help the war veterans. You can put nice laws but it will never help because the people implementing are not interested. They got $50 000 and people were complaining that it killed the economy but what happened. Those who got $50 000 are still poor. They got tractors under Andy Mhlanga. There was a programme to give them small Chinese tractors and grinding mills. All of those things are dead, they are not working and they are back to zero. Now we are trying to bring in some small stipends to try and cushion them. Let us just give them a flat salary which can look after them and maybe provide a house. How is America, Zambia, DRC and Mozambique doing it, we are seeing these things. It is not a new thing. Let us copy from others. Simply copy and paste instead of trying to refine this wording it must be this, no this must be maybe or shall be. It will not work as long as we have too many criminals leading the war veterans. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MURIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution to the debate. Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand here as one of the fighters of the liberation struggle that is being talked about. Having joined at the age of 14 I really know what was experienced by my colleagues.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe our laws now because of the debate that has taken place are very discriminatory on war veterans. As you would know, Mr. Speaker Sir, there are some war veterans who were serving in the army. They were given credit for their service in the struggle upon retirement. For example I was given eight years such that I had to retire after 12 years of effective service, having been credited with eight years. That eight years was never enjoyed by someone who was demobilised in 1980. The one who was demobilised in 1980 just got a pension, the war veterans pension without taking cognisance of the service that he rendered. So the pension is actually a thank you than what we call a pension. It is actually not a pension, it is not even a thank you, it is pittance. So if you take these two war veterans, the one who retired in 1980 and the one who retired in 1988 you would see that what they are getting in terms of pension is different because the other one got the eight years credit. Then as of last year those who were in the army up to 2017 there is a Statutory Instrument that is giving them benefits by virtue of them being a war veteran. Again that benefit is not being enjoyed by those who were left to go home in 1980.
So I am saying our laws are not treating war veterans equally. This is one of the outcries that are coming because the one who is benefiting a lot he is benefiting in getting the credit for eight years, he is benefiting through the Statutory Instrument of 2017. He is not crying because he is not getting the same benefit, he is getting far more benefits than the one who was released to go home in 1980.
The Constitution, as alluded to by my colleagues who spoke earlier on, is recognising the war veterans as the custodians of the legacy of the liberation struggle and that they should be respected for that, but on the other hand the country is crying to have women and youth represented in Parliament and yet those who are supposed to protect the legacy and push it on until they die, nobody talks about their representation in Parliament. All these war veterans you are seeing who are in Parliament, we actually had to struggle to come in so that we represent our colleagues and as we speak, they are watching to say what are you doing in Parliament, are you representing us as though we came to Parliament to represent them. We came to Parliament simply to exercise our right to enjoy the privileges that are given by the Constitution that anybody can stand as a Parliamentarian.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe instead of concentrating on what is it each war veteran should get, what we should do now is to ensure that the laws are balanced and that they treat all war veterans equally, such that the benefits that are being received are equal. The 20% is not being enjoyed at the same rate as some people have alluded to. If you go to the Ministry of lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement there is nothing like that. They do not even recognise that there is a war veteran that is looking for land.
Mr. Speaker Sir, everything else has been said. We walked throughout the country and we saw the plight of our colleagues the war veterans. If you go there and see them, Mr. Speaker Sir, you will cry. You will shed tears seeing the struggle that they are going through and the pain that they are enduring, the psychological torment that they get from the public. Mr. Speaker Sir, I think we should synchronise our laws and at the same time administratively look at our war veterans. With those few words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank you for the time that you have allotted me. Thank you.
HON. JAMES SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on this petition brought in by the war veterans and was brought into this august House by Hon. Brig. Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome. The petition states on top that ZPRA Cadres are the ones who brought this petition but at the bottom, the petition included all sides of the liberation struggle, Zambia/ ZANLA and ZPRA – I am grateful for that.
Mr. Speaker, I think some Hon. Members have already talked about everything. However, I just want to add on the vetting process when it started. For instance, if vetting was to be done for war collaborators, it will be a disaster. I am saying so because there were some DA’s, those other ones who were called dzakutsaku who went for call up but they knew the names of the war veterans and the bases they operated from and took that advantage. Therefore, I think the vetting process must have strong restrictions to say do not give fake details as has been referred to by fellow Hon. Member that there are fake war veterans.
Sellouts are there and the War Veterans Associations are getting money but they are forgetting that even now, there is a war veteran who is in caves. The shoeless of a leather boot is still intact in a born and the carcass teeth are open. Some are in shallow graves yet there are some war veterans who are earning money. The families of those who perished during the liberation struggle are not getting anything.
I think that one is a very painful issue Mr. Speaker Sir. The issue must be looked into. I want to submit that when time comes for vetting, it must be done based on where someone was operating from and not war veterans in urban areas. Some villages know who were the war collaborators and other groups during the liberation struggle.
My understanding on this petition is that I heard the war veterans saying the category and the benefits must not be the same. Yes, how can it be the same? The benefits for a person who crossed the country to go and stay in the bush for so many years and someone who was here in town should differ. We know even those who were here, some were singing, some were cooking food; they worked tirelessly without any protection. Some of them were bombarded because they had no protection. Therefore, when a petition comes to us, it is for us to add something or to subtract. In my view, it cannot be the same benefits.
Again, on the issue of names to say everyone is a war veteran, one alluded to the fact that a war veteran can be someone who fought in DRC or Mozambique. Why not name them freedom fighters, those who went for war and crossed flooded rivers. We also try to bring another name or we say war veterans, ex-detainees and war collaborators.
I think when this petition comes to Parliament; it needs all Members of Parliament to bring in a support where it can assist our nation and our fellow comrades. Those comrades who perished in the bush, their families are still struggling to know how they can benefit on behalf of their relatives. I thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to this debate. I would like to thank Hon. Brig Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome who is the Chairperson of this Committee who brought in the report on the petition which was brought here by liberation war heroes.
I am from Mashonaland West where fierce battles were fought. I would like to thank the war veterans for all they have done because it was through them that we are here in this august House. They did a great job on behalf of the nation. I would like to say thank you very much.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to start with the issue with regards to what was said by Hon. Gabbuza to say we have asked a lot of questions in this House of the National Assembly with regard to the war veterans of the liberation struggle so that they get assistance. It is my wish and desire to say the Minister in charge of these war veterans be able to come through to this House to answer and give a Ministerial Statement with regard to this statement. Even the views of these members in this House, he should be able to answer, give advice and respond to this petition on the suffering of the war veterans.
It is so embarrassing and alarming Hon. Speaker for us to keep on talking about the plight of these liberation war heroes. A lot of people have spoken about our freedom. We now have 41 years of independence. I stand before you in this House Hon. Speaker to say in August when celebrate the lives of these war veterans or heroes, what we look forward is that before we get to that day, let them be given a chance to celebrate and enjoy that which they suffered for.
Hon. Speaker, when you look at Government, we have a lot of ministries that can be doing a lot of things with regard to what is supposed to be done for the lives of these war veterans to change. There are a lot of things that they can do. When you see a child insisting that they want to go to another homestead, it is because where they are staying they are not living well. They came to this House because they have confidence in us.
What I am saying Hon. Speaker is, we have Government ministries and the first one is that of health. They can get assistance from the Ministry of Health but there should be identification papers that identify them as liberation war heroes and that cannot take a long time for us to decide. Even when they are travelling Hon. Speaker, we are speaking of people who have aged and are not children. They can get documents from the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare with the assistance of Government. This will be a passport which allows them to move around so they have ease of movement. They should not have any difficulties in moving around the country or beyond.
We have the Ministry of Local Government in charge of housing. They can actually move in and assist with housing for those who do not have housing, accommodation that enables those who do not have it to find accommodation. We also have the Ministries of Agriculture and Labour. If we fail to give those who fought in the liberation struggle, our heroes; if we cannot assist them, who then are we going to render assistance to? Hon. Gabbuza said it well and I am with what he said. These war veterans no longer have children who go to school. They now look after other families. Because of them leaving for the liberation struggle, they should be people who actually get something to sustain them. That will give us a better position in society as a nation to say we are looking after our own people who worked hard for us during the liberation struggle.
In South Africa, they do have liberation war heroes. Let us go and learn how they are managing their own system of supporting those who fought in the liberation struggle. In Tanzania, we do have the same people who did such a great job. Let us go and copy and understand how they are managing the situation.
In summation, we were once told in this House of the National Assembly, that there was a fact-finding mission undertaken to establish how many war veterans are there, where they stay, the number of wives they have, how many women and men are there because you can only assist those who have been identified and if you know the exact numbers, their location and what they are doing.
I would like to thank again those who came with this petition to say they were so brave to come to the National Assembly. I would like to thank Parliament for accepting and receiving this petition. I would like to thank the Committee Chairperson for receiving this petition as well as this House. Let us not look down upon this petition but let us look forward to fixing these issues. Time does not wait for someone. It would be of great effect if we fix this and work with urgency to assist them. I look forward to the Minister responsible for this particular issue to come and respond to this particular petition. These people should have assistance rendered to them as a matter of priority.
HON. SHAMU: Mr. Speaker, I would like to premise my contribution by thanking Brig. Gen. (Rtd) Mayihlome and his Committee for having taken upon themselves to delve into this issue and this petition which has today brought us to discuss issues pertaining to the livelihoods of our esteemed war veterans.
Mr. Speaker, listening to Hon. Members of Parliament contributing, I say to myself - what we have here is like a review of what we did and agreed to do and we are then saying, what is it that we have not done properly. Obviously when you get a petition, it means there is a problem and that problem needs to be addressed. I totally agreed with Hon. Members who have underscored the fact that we should be able to come up with recommendations that bring finality to issues of this nature.
Democratic principles Mr. Speaker Sir, are indeed the DNA of war veterans. The issue that they raise with regard to the War Veterans Board, the need for transparency in its appointment, is an issue that I think is very important. We have had the experience of many Commissions that have gone through Parliament and where there has been consultation with the public. Therefore, the request for consultation at provincial and district level by the war veterans is a noble suggestion. War veterans are a special category of people. It is not the whole nation but a number that can be accounted for and therefore, zeroing-in on them in order for us to come up with a board that they have confidence in is a must for us to be able to proceed onward in terms of meeting the needs, aspirations and requirements of our war veterans.
Secondly, I want to touch on the issue of vetting processes. I have a paper that I was given about two or three weeks ago which has the biography of one war veteran called Morgan Hwami. He operated in Gaza Province, got injured there and came back to the rear – appointed to the protocol division of the party. Alas, Mr. Speaker Sir, when his relatives tried to go and request for support in terms of his having been a war veteran, they were turned down and told that he is not a war veteran. This is painful, it hurts. However, this does happen in many cases where such important tasks are carried out by people who do not understand what it is that they have to do. Therefore, the exercise has to be done in a very meticulous manner by people who would have been prepared for it and especially going back to some of the commanders of our fighting forces.
We are now in the industrial revolution phase where we see ICT playing a very important role. I do not see the problem that we can have if we were where to use the modern methods of accounting for people like we do with our own census, in order for us to come up with a proper register of war veterans which can be made available at ward, district, provincial and national level. No-one can tell me that we will continue to have more war veterans being born in the year 2030 and still claim to have joined the liberation struggle at the age of thirty or fifteen. Like Hon. Gabbuza stated here, we are over 40 years now since we became independent and to be honest with each other, how old are we today? Numbers cannot continue to increase every day.
There must be something that is not normal which we need to correct and corrections will only come from scientific analysis of this situation. The practical way of doing it is for us to go through our ICT systems – the computers there. Let us get all names of all war veterans – all those who claim to be war veterans, let them be registered. Let them be examined and the truth be established, and verify genuine war veterans for the purposes of ensuring that we serve people who are supposed to be given the necessary benefits.
I would like to thank Hon. T. Mliswa who hinted the fact that I was one of the founders of the War Veterans Association and that is true. That came about because within the family, you have a relative who is on a wheel chair and is not able to assist himself because he was injured in the war. You will find a family fending for that relative or neighbour. We felt there was a need for an association to look after the welfare of war veterans. It gives us joy that today Government does recognise that fact.
We are able to debate this issue in Parliament here and what is the aim and objective – the objective is to create a lasting foundation that provides a better livelihood for our war veterans. However, let that be done on the basis of fact. Let us make a clear analysis based on facts and then be able to say what it is that has got to be done. We can tinker around with the Constitution or Acts but if implementation is poor, our objectives will come to nought. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MASHONGANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to debate in this august House. I would like to thank those who brought in this petition which has to do with war veterans’ welfare. Since 1980, Government has tried its best to assist the war veterans, but because of the hardships or challenges that we have faced as we progressed in independence - these included sanctions, hence we are facing economic challenges. I would like to thank the Government for considering quite a number of factors.
Coming up with war veterans associations was trying to locate them and also to render assistance in the different areas that are in. We want to thank the leadership of the war veterans and our Ministry of War Veterans. This reflects that the war veterans are still experiencing challenges. Most of the things that needed to be addressed were not completely addressed. I was thinking that in terms of vetting war veterans, I heard those who spoke before me saying that those who were not part of the liberation war can be chosen or elected. From the areas that we come from, we have village heads who know those who were part of the liberation struggle. I think that is another strategy we can use to find out who is a war veteran. For us to come up with a clear definition of war veterans, every comrade who left his family, crossed over to neighbouring countries and joined other fighters in the bush. In my view, when the Government eventually considers the war veterans, it should be inclusive of those who lost their lives and left their families behind without getting any compensation. We cannot ignore and take it as a done deal. We should compensate them through their siblings who need assistance.
We also need to consider those who lost their lives during the war and were not accorded decent burials with different parts of the body in different places because of the war. I think those families should be assisted to locate the remains of their parents and their locations since they sacrificed their lives for the independence of the people that we enjoy today.
We also need to benchmark with other countries on how the welfare of war veterans is considered. This will enable us to see where we are lacking. My proposal is that on the issue of age, as debated by other Hon. Members that since 1980, including the years that they were in the bush fighting for independence experiencing the harsh life without good food, those years are critical. We also need to look at the years since 1980, most of them are now above 50 years. My proposal Mr. Speaker Sir is that if the Government says that they are experiencing financial challenges, most war veterans have lost their lives. They are slowly becoming extinct. It would be good for the leadership in our different communal areas from village level to consider the poverty that the war veterans are experiencing especially those in rural areas.
We need to consider the most disadvantage war veterans. I am a war veteran and my standard of living is better. We can request that those who are advantaged should give preference for assistance to the disadvantaged. We have people living in poverty who need to be assisted. We need to come up with a solution. We have individuals who are corrupt; since the Mugabe era they have amassed wealth for themselves as individuals. I think if we know these corrupt individuals, the war veterans who are now late and those who are now living in poverty should get that wealth repossessed from the corrupt individuals so that we all benefit. As war veterans, we know the war veterans who are struggling in all areas. I remember someone talked about the issue of health. War veterans are dying because there is no one to represent them. Are you aware that every war veteran was given 25% for mental illness? My proposal is that the Government should not renege on assistance because life is becoming more difficult.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank the President for his recognition of the role women played in the liberation struggle through the Mbuya Nehanda statue. It has given us a sense of pride and dignity for this recognition. There is a lot that we did as women through Mbuya Nehanda. We thank you. In our Constitution, there was a lot on the provisions for war veterans which included health, right to decent shelter and economic empowerment. Mr. Speaker Sir, war veterans should be empowered through our natural resources. A certain percentage should be set aside for war veterans. I want to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording me this opportunity and I become emotional because we do have our rural homes. Think of Rushinga and Mt. Darwin. If we mobilise the war veterans in the area, you will all end up in tears. This means that this is not to say it is only Mashonaland Central with war veterans but nationwide including Matabeleland. People were committed towards independence. I want to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and also to thank those who brought the petition.
(v)*HON. MASENDA: I want to thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion. I want to urge the Government to fulfill its promises. I have heard a lot of talk being done but nothing happens in practice. I want to thank the Second Dispensation – Mr. Speaker Sir, may people mute their gadgets because it is disturbing my debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may go ahead Hon. Member. You are very clear.
HON. MASENDA: I want to say the Act on the War Veterans Liberation Struggle, Chapter 17 clearly outlines what should be done for veterans of the liberation struggle to get a better livelihood but nothing is being done. No implementation is being done. The money is there, so we should urge each other that what is provided for in the Act should be implemented.
I also want to say that the Constitution, Section 84 is talking about war veterans, that they should be given basic health care. Why basic health care? Are we not entitled to full medical care? This basic health care means that out of 100, you are not getting much. This should be addressed. We need more than basic health care and it is their health that is important for the war veterans to survive. When we talk of basic health care, I become disturbed. We want full health care.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to talk about the 20% that was mentioned before. The 20% is referring mostly to land but land is not the only resource that brings a better source of living to the war veterans. Over and above land, we need 20% on mechanisation equipment; there are scholarships as well. The 20% should be spread across different available programmes.
I want to talk about the Heroes Day celebrations. We are the heroes. In my opinion, the war veterans are not really respected. In other countries, you would find the war veterans are given full recognition. Even if they are disabled, you see them being pushed in their wheelchairs and getting the recognition that they deserve. Here in Zimbabwe, no one looks at war veterans; we are looked down upon. I think the Government needs to give us at least medals that define us as veterans of the liberation struggle. There has been a lot of talk about this but it is not being done.
I want to talk about Command Agriculture. People should be empowered to enable them to engage in farming. Most war veterans are now aged and if you go to try and get farming inputs, we struggle to get these inputs because of our age. So, we should be recognised and respected and we should not queue for farming inputs.
I want to talk about vetting. Vetting was done many years ago. There are war veterans who are getting pensions. Yes, they should be getting what the Act provides for. Those who were vetted and are eligible should get their pensions. Also, the vetting should proceed for those who are yet to be vetted. I also want to say that if one loses his or her spouse who was a war veteran and was availed land, the spouse loses the land. The family is dispossessed of that land. This is disheartening and painful Mr. Speaker Sir. We want the law to provide that if a war veteran gets whatever resources, no one should dispossess the family of that war veteran, of the resources because the war veteran has passed away. Instead, we need to protect the legacy of the war veterans with the spouse and the children inheriting their legacy.
I now want to talk about COVID-19. When the vaccination process began, we were told about the first categories, second categories for vaccination, but no way did I hear about war veterans category. Are we not considering the work that was done by war veterans? I am proposing that the war veterans should be recognised and considered the way that probably the Army and ZRP are recognised. I want to conclude by saying let us not only talk but let us act because it has been long since these provisions have been talked about and written, but there is no implementation. I thank you.
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD) MAYIHLOME: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. S. SITHOLE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 2nd June, 2021
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD) MAYIHLOME seconded by HON. MUTAMBISI, the House adjourned at Twenty Seven Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 20th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. CHINGOSHO: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker. My point of privilege is on the problem Portfolio Committees are facing when we are going out. In most cases, if we are supposed to leave early at this Parliament, we leave very late, delayed by Parliament staff who will be accompanying the Committees because the staff come from various places where I understand they face problems of transport and the congestion in the morning for them not to be able to catch up with the Portfolio Committee which is supposed to leave early.
My recommendation is that if there could be provision that each time a Portfolio Committee is going out, the staff accompanying it must also be allowed to put up in the same hotel. When we come back again, in most cases we come back very late and you wonder how staff manage to go back to their places because by then, there will be no transport. I am saying, if provision could also be allowed for them to put up in the same hotel Members of Parliament will be putting up. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chingosho.
I have heard what you said. I will talk to the Parliament Administration.
I am sure they will be able to rectify that matter. Thank you.
I promised to give Hon. Ndebele time today on his point of privilege and I am giving you the time now.
HON. NDEBELE: I will waiver it Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 13 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 14 has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
AMENDMENT OF SECTION 129 (1) (k) OF THE CONSTITUTION
OF ZIMBABWE
HON. T. MLISWA: I move the motion standing in my name that
this House:
RECOGNISING that Members of Parliament, with the exception of Independent candidates, are elected to Parliament on a political party
ticket;
ACKNOWLEDGING that every political party is guided by its own ideology, values and principles which largely influence the manner in which members of the party debate on issues brought before
Parliament;
AWARE that once a Member of Parliament is elected, he or she becomes a representative of every citizen of Zimbabwe in his or her constituency and not just those that voted for the Member;
CONCERNED that Members of Parliament cannot fulfil this representative role to its letter and spirit due to the strictures imposed by political party ideology which is enforced by the whipping system; NOTING that Section 61 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe affords every citizen, including Parliamentarians, the right to freedom of expression and the right to seek, receive and communicate ideas and other information;
ALSO NOTING that Section 148 (1) of the Constitution provides that Members of Parliament have freedom of speech in Parliament and in all Parliamentary Committees and, while they must obey the rules and orders of the House concerned, they are not liable to civil or criminal proceedings, arrest or imprisonment or damages for anything said in, produced before or submitted to Parliament or any of its committees;
COGNISANT, however, that this privilege is invalidated by Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution which gives political parties the unfettered power to recall a Member of Parliament whom, in executing his or her representative function, does not toe the party line;
DEEPLY CONCERNED that this provision entrenches the whipping system and limits Members of Parliament’s ability to debate freely, earnestly and without fear or favour on issues that affect the people of Zimbabwe where the matters appear to contradict the party line; and
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon Parliament to: Urgently amend Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe so that it stays execution of any notice of expulsion of a Member until the
Constitutional Court has certified that due process was followed.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, thank you very much and
good afternoon to you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you. Madam Speaker. The motion that I am moving is to do with the recalling of the Members of Parliament. I am glad that it is happening at a time when most Members of Parliament now appreciate it. Madam Speaker, the Section 129 (1) (k) of the Constitution has become a weapon for political parties to push their personal agendas. Madam Speaker, I will relate a lot to the House of Commons which I think traditionally we have learnt and copied a lot from and then I will come back to the situation in this country. One of
the key problems in Parliament of which little is understood but which hugely undermines its effectiveness is the whip’s stronghold over the scrutiny of Government Bills. At present, members of these Bill committees are chosen by Standing Rules and Orders Committee, a
Committee of which is composed of whips from the main parties with a
Chairperson; currently the Chairperson of the Legal Committee who at present is Hon. Samukange and has been chosen by the Executive.
It has long been clear that this mechanism has serious disadvantages, firstly by putting the power to select Bill Committee members into the hands of the whips representing the interests of their political parties. Their choice invariably reflects the wishes of the Executive who command the majority to push their legislation through as quickly and painlessly as possible. We have Bills that come through and are in the hands of the whips representing the interests of their political party. The key issue and political parties must be replaced with representing interests of the nation but the whipping system whips Members of Parliament to follow their party. This has naturally disadvantaged the people of this country because national interests are superior to political parties. We must all be vanguards of the nation than political parties come through but we have now made political parties to be more powerful than the nation. The Government of the day looks at national interests and it is important that while they look at the national interest, everybody in the nation is considered and factored in as well.
Political parties’ agenda is political and the agenda is for their party to be powerful but again, they lose it when they do not realise that by the party embracing national issues, it becomes powerful in its sense. As you can see, they have not exercised that and as a result, there is a lot that happens. The Executive and the Chairperson of the Legal Committee is chosen by the Executive. What oversight can you have over the Executive when we in this Parliament are supposed to be having oversight of the Executive but one is appointed by the Executive? Madam Speaker, your ascendency to the throne where you are is a result of an election process – so is that of the Speaker. So why then do we not have an election process of electing these people and at times when it is about electing these people, most of them do not have capacity. It is about people who are mere cheer leaders and as a result, the country suffers. The suffering of the country is something which no generation can overturn. We now have a system of cheer leaders and now even those who have capacity, for them to be felt and to be given positions, they are being cheer leaders. Are we then pushing national interests or not yet this House is known as the National House of Assembly? It is not the political party House of Assembly – it is the National House of Assembly. How many are able to leave the political jacket out before they enter in here? It takes a lot but you can see it is a habit. With the politics of Africa which is hate politics, it is a permanent relationship which is not sustainable as and when they must use it then they come through.
The passing and through the command – the majority pushed the legislation through as quickly as possible; how many – all, the nation, us for having passed Bills here and amending laws. It is also important for the electorate of this nation to understand that the Constitution is theirs.
It is not ours here in Parliament. All we have to do is to do things which are constitutional. I will throw this to the electorate or Zimbabweans at large today, that for many at times you have not taken responsibility in that the Constitution you made – 90% of the people agreed to this Constitution. If at all you did not want this Constitution to be amended, why then at the time when the Constitution was being crafted, you did not put a clause like - we do what the people want and that is what we do. There is nothing Parliament has done to abrogate its duty. We have exercised constitutionalism of the highest order.
It is incumbent upon the electorate or the Zimbabweans, to equally read the Constitution. Most people talk about it but they do not read it. If you ask the electorate in this country who is their councillor, Member of Parliament, Proportional Representative or Senator they do not know. How then will you be able to have detail that is able to assist you on how politics of this country run? You cannot ignore the councillor, Member of Parliament, Proportional Representative or Senator if you are
Zimbabwean. The challenge that I throw out to the electorate and
Zimbabweans, is that you need to understand this Constitution. One of
the issues that you must give credit to the late former President R.G. Mugabe was that he knew that they would talk without understanding their Constitution. The powers that the President has in this Constitution are so many and they have not even used those powers.
State of emergency; the President is empowered to do that but it is the Constitution that came from the people. The military being on the streets is subject to the provisions of this Constitution, Sections 212-214 which talk about deployment of the military onto the streets to maintain law and order but being headed by the police. If the police are overwhelmed, then they can call upon the military. You will then say what are the soldiers doing on the streets? My question is - what where you also doing when you were allowing this clause to be in the Constitution? We must be able to understand that the Constitution is a sacred document of this country. What must be questioned is the constitutionalism of it - are we abiding to it or not?
This inevitably results in an unbalanced representation and exclusion of members with necessary expertise to scrutinise the Bill in detail, rigorously and thoroughly as possible which essentially ought to be the object of the Bill at Committee Stage. We come and a lot is done. We now have a situation where Parliament has become factional because there are Members of Parliament from the opposition who have been recalled and are not here and they represent people in their constituencies. Their absence in this Parliament means there is no representation in their constituencies. Why are we so cruel and not allow people to be represented? What have the constituency done because they no longer have a representative?
There is a gap now which is difficult to fill. I have seen some of the most brilliant minds leaving this Parliament because of Section 129 (1) (k). I once went through the list of the opposition in terms of who really was a lawyer; I counted 16 lawyers and I counted the ruling party having 4 lawyers and some being night school lawyers, I will not mention their names. You had 16 lawyers, who had the capacity to scrutinise the Bill in detail before it got to Committee Stage which is an important process. We pass laws and Bills in this House which end up haunting us because we would not have scrutinised and paid attention to
detail.
I am not a lawyer, but I rely on people who have gone to legal school. When Advocate Chamisa was in this House I would sit next to him and ask him what the law says. When Hon. Biti and Hon Phulu were here, I did the same. I fed off their legal brilliance and it was important to me because when I then contributed in Parliament, I could talk to people who legally had an understanding of what is going on. In its present system the onus focuses more on selecting Members with sound views, who can be relied on to be loyal and supportive of the government’s position at controversial points of the legislation.
The electorate expects Bills which will become the law of this country to be critically examined by Parliament. How do you critically examine Parliament when the Executive itself has got a Chairperson who they appoint? Basically what we have is a situation where Bills pass through here and it is just rubber stamping. That is the reason why at the end of the day you do not have robust debate pertaining to Bills.
At the end of the day, you ask yourself when it gets to the process of voting who really votes. The majority will have their way and the minority will have their say. I have also seen that while the minority must have their say, their contribution which is effective makes the majority think.
The opposition cannot be the government in waiting by not also contributing effectively to the Bills of this country. It is important that the government of the day and the ruling party’s policies are examined by the government in waiting. So, speaking on informed decisions is critical. There is indeed one of the central reasons of Parliament itself – it therefore sends to the august House Parliamentarians with a wealth of experience and knowledge across the whole sector of the nation’s activities. To block that repository of skills and intelligence in the interest of government convenience is a public scandal.
We have had experiences in the last Parliament when the Chairperson of the Justice Committee Hon. Jessie Majome who was at that time an opposition Member being replaced by a ZANU PF chairperson when the Constitutional Amendment No 5 was tabled. Hon. Majome was excellent in terms of executing her duties and understanding the law, but because you are opposing what the Executive wants, you are then changed again by the Executive because numbers then matter. Should we really say because you are more, you must crush every progressive initiative that comes through? That is food for thought.
Does being the majority mean you must be crushing everything that is good to just satisfy and to say this is who we are and what we want must go our way? A Bill which government side has a loyalist majority sometimes with a dissident Member to give an expression of balance though not enough to threaten the majority may sometimes emerge at the end virtually unchanged despite numerous hours of debate. How many times do we go through all this but yet by the end of the day whatever we are pushing for is not changed.
Madam Speaker, this Parliament has followed procedure and given
Parliamentarians an opportunity to be able to speak and leave a legacy.
The only legacy parliamentarians can leave is coming up with progressive laws that are progressive, which is critical at the end of the day. The Government chief whip is under instructions to see through the Bills unchanged at least in its bold essentials, has the power to block every amendment however, justified or well argued for, unless there is a revolt on the government side which, sadly is much rare than the case often warrants.
There are two ways in which the defects of the current system could be amended. Instead of the Committee of Selection being dominated by the whips, it could be elected by the whole House on similar basis to the method of election of the Select Committees i.e places are allotted to each party according to their proportion in the House. Members of each party then vote for their own representatives on the Committee and government has the right to choose the chairperson. It would then be for members of the House who wish to serve on a particular Committee, to make representation to the elected Committee of Selection and the later could be free to interview such applicants if they so wish.
What am I saying here? There has got to be internal democracy in the political parties. We talk about democracy a lot, but how much democracy is in the political party is. Charity begins at home. By you recalling somebody just because of Section 129(1) (k) it is not democratic enough. Have you even consulted the electorate that voted for the person? Our personal differences – if you look at most people who have been recalled, it is not because they failed to discharge their duties, but it is political personal agendas. This becomes a weapon which everybody uses, but we see again that while this weapon is being used, we also have a situation where people now hold back.
I have seen the most brilliant mind in this Parliament being quiet and I have said why are they quiet. I have seen myself talking not because I am brilliant but because I do not report to anyone, and am not put on a list by anyone. So if you are not put on a list – now there is also the issue of some in these political parties who would like to be on the list but if they do not get along with the leadership they are not on the list. How then do you expect democracy to prevail when looking at a situation where I have to lick to somebody to be in a position, which means you are compromised?
Most Members of Parliament leave this Parliament compromised. They ask why do you not speak but they find it difficult to answer. Why is it difficult for them to answer that I cannot speak because I have to go through a party system? It is because they also fear that they will be expelled. The party will also descend on you and say why did you answer like that. Parties want to be seen to be democratic, yet they are not. So, you need to now look at it and say we come to Parliament again – I have seen committee chairpersons and why doesn’t the committee sit down and elect a chairperson? The party must elect a chairperson. There must be a process because for that Member to be in Parliament they went through primary elections and a general election which is a democratic process.
However, when it comes to electing chairpersons there is no democracy. Even in the ruling party I am told that the chief whip was appointed and not elected. Let me speak Madam Chair and set the record straight. If the election of the Chief Whip was conducted, then you have a Chief Whip who represents the interests of the party but if you have a Chief Whip appointed, he will represent the interests of those that appointed him or her. It is important that we understand that and we are able to see how best we can now have this process of elections within these Committees. The advantage of this option is that it is a much more open, democratic and would eliminate the draw backs and deficiencies of the current system. The Members of the Bills Committee would no longer be largely guaranteed Government loyalists.
The scrutiny of Bills is likely to be more genuine and thorough. The full range of knowledge and expertise of the backbenchers is likely to be more efficiently deployed. Backbenchers are critical but you cannot be a back bencher if you are not being given a chance to speak.
For me, I have chaired Committees and I have said being a backbencher is a more effective position one can have but you can only be effective if you are given an opportunity. How many in the political parties are known to be effective backbenchers who can be able to speak? I have seen great contributions by Members of the ruling party and there is no acknowledgement of it. I have seen great contributions from Members of the opposition but there is no acknowledgement of it. They fear being asked kuti sei wakamuomberera and that becomes a crime. Yet in this House, when something is good and an issue of national interest has been brought up which affects everybody, we must be true parliamentarians and acknowledge.
The only thing that this House has mastered is heckling to a good point. We know heckling to be done when something is not good but most are good points. I remember Hon Biti coming here and Members of the ruling party stopping him from debating the issue of sanctions yet they have been attacking him saying that he is the one who pushed for sanctions. When it was time for him to debate, the debate was adjourned. How pathetic. You have been given an opportunity to say what you want to say but when it was time for him to speak and defend himself, there was heckling and I said this is so sad. He listened to a lot which was being said about him and waited for his opportunity but he was never given an opportunity to continue. There was so much noise then I realised that they have made him more prominent than any other time because they were afraid that he would respond. Hon Biti is brilliant when it comes to issues of responses and so forth. The whole party had a caucus to stop one person from speaking. A total caucus – had lunch to say when Hon Biti gets up, you must stop him.
I am now going to the whipping system where some people are even told to do wrong things because of the whipping system. The same way in this House I would reprimand my colleagues from the opposition but they do not all walk out when the President walks in. I lamented that all the time and I would pray that why are you walking out. What do you get from walking out? If you are not happy, you can move a motion and question the President when he comes to Parliament. That was one of the most painful moments as a legislator where I would sit there and I would end up sitting alone. I would beg, why are you walking out. Most of the people who were walking out did not want to walk out and the evidence you can see it, that those who believed walking out was wrong have come back into Parliament and they are sitting well with the current leadership which is there. Those who objected to that, which was unpatriotic, which is certainly not welcome - what does patriotism and nationalism mean?
At times we invite problems to ourselves and when they descend on us, we now ask ourselves but why are we in this situation. I could see some of them struggling to stand up and walk out when the President was there. I could see the leaders of the party moving up and down so fast like a Lamborghini to say let us go back and forth – it had become a highway overtaking where the leader was in front and the other was behind to say let us go. The police were invited in this House to embarrass you. Was it really worth it? God bless the legislators of this country. It was not worth it. I saw a situation where the Chief Justice of this country was embarrassed. I reprimanded my colleagues and said you cannot do this. They embarrassed the Speaker.
This is done because of leadership. Most of the Members from the opposition are intelligent. Some are even more intelligent than me but they did things which were foolish which today they regret. To me, this is the danger of the whipping system and I would see the President sitting there, he has not come to talk but he has come to just listen but he would still get up and go. I said to myself but why would they do this to an innocent man who has come to do his duties, who is the head of the State, with three pillars of the State including Parliament where he is head. This is an example when the Budget was being passed. It is the Minister of Finance who says it and not the President. He came in just as somebody fulfilling his obligations and mandate of being President being here but yet – I then asked one of them and said if the President came kurufu kwenyu vachida kubata maoko munobva futi parufu? This is the bad part of the whipping system.
There is however a more radical alternative which has been tried and proven to work effectively in the Scottish Parliament. Instead of Committees on the present model, the membership of the Select Committees could be modestly extended and their coverage of the department they shadow could be divided into few central categories each with its own special sub-committee. While there is a full Committee, why do you not also have a sub-committee system which ultimately feeds into the Committee because the subcommittee allows people to be able to express their views but their views end up at full Committee stage where it can be debated.
When a Government Bill is published, it could then be allocated for scrutiny to the appropriate sub-committee for the particular Select Committee. Scrutiny is still there and this is what the Scottish Parliament does. Where the substance of the Government Bill stretch beyond the remit of any one sub-committee, a new sub- committee could be established by the Select Committee for the purposes of this
particular Bill which combined Members with the relevant expertise from two or more Committees.
They talk about expertise. Amongst us everybody has got a different gift that they have. We have not at all utilised the resources the Members of Parliament have in this Parliament by allowing them to use their expertise. By being here, they are leaders already. Each one of them is gifted to do so much but also give them an opportunity to lead. Those sub-committees assist and also sub- committees are now done by somebody who is an expert in that field, which means whatever you are producing is good for the country. At the end of the day, it would have gone through a process which should be recognised.
Bills which combined Members with relevant expertise from two or more sub- committees; while the Bill was of high importance, it could be scrutinised by the Select Committee as a whole. There are certain Bills which you can have sub-committees but there are certain Bills depending on their importance are brought to the Select Committee to be able to deal with them. There are several advantages to be drawn from this format as the Scottish example shows; members would be chosen from those democratically elected by the whole House so that the Executive would no longer wield undue influence over who should exercise scrutiny over its own Bills.
This is critical. When the House has elected members then you know that the Executive will be on its toes and it is important for us Mr. Speaker Sir, to also follow. Benchmarking is one of the key issues of this Parliament but unfortunately, even with our remuneration they have gone for benchmarking a lot. Hon. Mpariwa, when she was
Chairperson of the Public Accounts came up with a report from Kenya Benchmarking but we seem not to also follow that. So it was a waste of money going to Kenya to benchmark because at the end of the day, the benchmarking is not done. The remuneration of Members of Parliament in Kenya compared to us is a laughing stock. So what did they go and benchmark if it is not implemented? The same issues that Hon. Dr. Khupe said there are too many documents and no implementation, even this Parliament is falling prey to that. What has happened to the benchmarking, which trips were made to improve the remuneration and welfare of Members of Parliament? Nothing has come out of that.
Moreover the sub-committee members who were properly elected in the first instance, as having particular knowledge in this policy area would rapidly deepen that expertise as they continued to concentrate in their specialist areas. The capabilities of back bench members with interest and commitment to particular policy areas would be much more valuable in terms of deployment. This model would also enable the scrutiny process to be undertaken in a more open and transparent manner. The sub-committee could co-opt experts in their policy area as regular advisers where expertise is warranted. These are some of the issues but some of these committees and some of the issues that come before us, we do not know them. Why are we not bringing in expertise? Where is the academia?
We have got universities in this country, we have got researchers. How many times do we call them on an issue so that they are able to get us to do the right thing? We are not making use of the resources that we have in the country. There is no nation that can prosper without research and development and the Hon. Speaker is constantly pushing that there must be academia involvement in what we do because it is critical.
This could be several sessions with experienced witnesses drawn from both sides on controversial questions to enable the most important issues in the Bill to get a full airing so that the latter detailed scrutiny of the Bill was proper on these central matters. The wider public could be enabled to participate in these proceedings, both at the witness stage and the detailed Bill examination that follows by televising the proceedings and allowing members of the public to send in comments or suggestions which would be filtered by the clerks and forwarded to members of the sub-committee as deemed appropriate.
This is critical. There are people who are disabled who cannot get to public committees. How are they contributing? With the television being there, with the ICT improving and the clerks being there – whatever they are contributing is noted, and then it is put to the committee to consider. So we must be able to accommodate everyone but the problem is that we now have a situation where even those who are willing to participate have not participated. Why would we then be able to say that this issue clearly does not get to the people? What is the point? Parliament is a Parliament of the people and a Parliament of everyone.
Parliamentary democracy in our country is suffering a crisis of legitimacy. Support for mainstream parties is at an all time low and the Opposition has a leader of whom 80% of its members do not support.
There are many reasons for this and there is no magic bullet to cure it. The whipping system is part of the problem that needs to be addressed and abolished thereof. The whipping system demands that our elected politicians first line of duty is to obey their party and not to serve their constituencies. As such, it is a potent symbol of what many perceive to be wrong without politics.
How many of us are serving their constituencies? Some of you are abandoning constituency meetings where you get power to rush to a party caucus destroying someone – that has become more important, makuhwa. Hon. Speaker Sir, gossip has become the way of getting attentively. They are prepared to leave a funeral, even hunhu hwedu tahurasa nenyaya dzemakuhwa mupolitics kuti nhasi tiri kuda kubvisa Themba Mliswa huyai, anetsa. Ndiyo language yacho, vanomhanya pakubvisa chete - [HON. MATANGIRA: Iwe uri hwani here Themba!] – So it is important, may you please protect me.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): You
may proceed Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: No, ndini ndavhura iyi ndakaita research ka, not zvekutamba. Pane research apa, bvunzai Hon. Dr. Khupe, vanokuudzai kuti pane research. Kana ndave kutaura nyaya dzeScottish Parliament iresearch, aah ndakashanda apa.
So you know, the constituency is suffering because you are not sticking to core issues yet the party strength is in representing people. The party must be geared on developmental programmes. I challenge any political party in this country to show me the development programme that they have of their ward, constituency and so forth where they can show me the money because political parties only fundraise during elections but never fundraise for Members of Parliament or councillors to work yet they are allowed to do so. I have never seen a budget of development issues from a political party. I have never seen a political party saying that we want to do 20 boreholes, here is the money and I have never seen a political party coming up with a sanitary wear campaign.
So now you have people involved in party politics and it is no wonder why 50% of the Members of Parliament, in most sessions do not come back. It is because they are absent from the constituency but they are present at gossip meetings for political parties. So the electorate watches and when it watches, it makes a determination pertaining to that. As such, it is policy symbol of what many perceive to be wrong with our politics that is played by internal rules of the Westminster class. When we debate and talk about the Westminster elite, it is important that it is respected without enough regard to the people we are supposed to
represent.
Whipping belongs to the time when class identities were stronger and two parties took the vast majority of the votes. Then there was perhaps some justification for organising Parliament into two highly disciplined teams. This bipolar partisanship is now out of date. I repeat - the politics of not putting national interests first is out of date. No wonder why this House is the National House of Assembly, so national issues must be prioritised and not party issues. When we vote for a Bill or an amendment, it does not serve the party; it serves the nation because we do not know who the next leader will be. So we do that fully understanding that this is something for the party.
A good example is the late former President R. G. Mugabe. We moved the first amendment in this House and that first amendment was to appoint a Chief Justice but within the Constitution, there was also a section to impeach him due to misconduct, which then haunted him. So the very same Constitution that you talk about has got provisions of whoever you give power to and they fail to discharge their power – mistakes arise. The more power you have, the higher the failure rate is. So Parliament again, has got that aspect of ensuring that there is scrutiny on whatever happens.
I am never worried about giving anybody power because I know that the very same Constitution takes you out of work as well if you fail. It is like a contract at work, while you are employed to pay a lot of money and you know that most people paid a lot of money in these contracts and when the company is closing, they are the first ones to be fired. We must understand that it also comes with a price, that is why I never worry about that.
The worst perhaps, some justification for organising Parliament into two highly disputes. In this more complex political world, the idea of loyalty to a party, right or wrong, has had its day. We must get to a point where being loyal to a party stops and we are loyal to our country. This electorate is tired of party line towing loyalists who when the President walks in here, are busy singing and making slogans so that you can be seen to be the one who supports the President.
I have seen them making more noise than they can make in church when they are singing because they want to appease the President. They have to be seen. They have never said anything in Parliament, but when the President comes in, they say slogans. They have never even made a maiden speech but when the President comes, it is a maiden speech for them. If you count their votes, some of them got more votes than the President. How can you say you are loyal to the President, when you as an MP have more votes than the President? Icho! It is important that you see if you really are true to the President, get more votes for the
President in your constituency or ward.
Let us not come here and try and be a loyalist without results. Be able to support your words by action. It is important that we stop this towing loyalist; preferring independently minded politicians with strong values – that is where we are going and is what upholds the home. It is your values, morals and ethics. Any political party remains what it is when the founding principles and ideology of that party which are the strong principles to be upheld. Where there is no corruption or chastising of women, abuse or rigging. So it is important that we now change that to have independently minded politicians with strong values.
This is why the most popular politicians of recent years have been mavericks of the likes of Boris Johnson where he is in the Conservative Party and he says what he wants but he is never fired. Today he is the Prime Minister because of his laws and he has spoken and the people have seen him representing people because he is independently minded and has strong values. He is the Prime Minister of Britain today. He will go against the tide, because he knows that the people are more important, but you want to go with the party and leave the people out, which mean that when it comes to elections the people also leave you and you will go with the leadership.
There is a difference between leadership and the electorate, because the leadership likes you it does not mean that the electorate likes you. I am an example of that. While I was expelled from ZANU PF, the Norton elections which are of record, in 2013 ZANU PF won with 10
500 and MDC had 9 300. In 2018 ZANU PF had 4 000, MDC 7 000 and I had 17 000 which means the majority of the ZANU PF came to me because they follow a leader who is independent and who has strong values. That is an example you must understand.
It is critical that these statistics are kept by politicians who are serious. If you look at it and add 4 000 to 7 000, it is 11 000 and I had 17 000. So the two could not even match because you have a constituency which believes in a leader who is independent minded and fast, people are becoming aware of representing and so forth. So long the leadership of the party is supreme; you cannot rely on the leadership of the party to win elections. You must rely on your own work and independent thinking. Even if you are the advisor to the President, when people now look at the electorate, they choose their leader. So positions mean nothing at the end of the day.
I have always said and have always respected the ZANU PF electorate because it is an electorate that I know is faithful, loyal but at the same time it knows when to speak and when to upset its boss because they know that if they come out in the open, they will be in trouble. Just saying the way the Members behave here, they do not want to come out because they know they will be exposed at the end of the day. Nigel is one of them and Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour cadre. He is coming from a labour movement and he is there, but he ended up there because of his strong values which were borne out an independent thinking mentality.
HON. ZEMURA: Mr. Speaker, my point of order is, are we going to sit and listen to one person the whole day?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa is the mover of
the motion, so he has unlimited time.
HON. T. MLISWA: To adapt to those changes the Westminster somehow had to become less party managed and more accommodating of the diverse opinions. Even the Westminster itself had to adapt to the diverse opinions and that is why you never hear in the politics of Europe somebody being expelled because they have expressed themselves. Africa is far from that. Of course, there is strength in unity but when it is achieved by coerced conformity, it becomes more of a weakness. It is important to understand, let unity be natural because people are free to do what they want but let us not have unity when you are coerced. That on its own becomes a weakness and the bubble tends to burst at a certain point. The electorate is that bubble that I talk about which will burst.
The sound of the continued cracking of the whip is the crying of a failing party system trying to desperately to re-assert its authority. You do not assert your authority in a party by punishing party cadres and the whipping system we know is used for that because Hon. Matangira has grown more maize or has more cows than me, you must be expelled from the party. Akuwonererwa manje, it is an example. It is not working and it is time to try something. My advice to the political parties whipping system, it is no longer working. There is a generational consensus which we cannot ignore. Every generation has its time to
dictate its future.
I have said that the generation of thirteen to seventeen years at 2018, if you want to push it from thirteen years at 2018 to 29 at 2023, so the generation of 13 years to twenty nine years at 2018, going to 2023 which will be the generation of the youths, is about 3 million and these are coming through. They are independent thinkers just like there in their homes. If you want to appreciate the independent thinking of today’s electorate it is how children are behaving in the homes. They do what they want. They are no longer reduced to the way we were brought up, and we had to be home at a certain time. They will not tell you where they are going, they are always on social media and they are always ahead of you.
So, that again has escalated to national issues. Do not think it is just in your house. You talk about politics, they do not listen to you, they are not interested, they are on the phone and you say they are being rude. However, they ask you, ‘but what do you want to talk to me about when I am a graduate and I have no job’. The thinking is critical of a generation coming; that is the way they will do things and it is totally different. That is why there has to be a shift and an adjustment in the way political leaders treat the new people coming into these parties.
No wonder why there is not any party which is growing with the youth. When you see a party celebrating people who are over 40 years to have joined them, vagumirwa. A party must be enjoying and celebrating people who are 17 years joining the party because come
2023, they will be able to vote. I celebrate young people joining a party, I never celebrate those who have their time joining a party – it does not work because young attracts young, old attracts old. The old are dying, so the young are coming through.
That is a phenomenon which we cannot stand in the way of. It is like a wave coming and you have a choice whether to stop it with your hands or to just join in. That is a determining factor for this adjustment that we are talking about; hence today’s leaders have got to be leaders who are able to relate to a certain generation.
Again, if we are going to adjust; I have a daughter who is a lawyer. She knows her rights. I say to her, my daughter you are leaving, I just wanted to know if you are coming home or not, just let me know so that
I am not worried. Therefore, it is important that political parties change. No wonder why you see social media has taken over the way they dress and so forth. You also saw even the former late President, he never used to wear a cap but he started wearing caps. I saw him once kicking a ball because he was relating, he wanted to connect to a certain thing. You see us being DJ’s playing to amapiano, it is because we are relating to a younger stock. That is the modern way of adjusting and adapting. They love amapiano South African music. When you play mbira, they do not come.
The job of political parties is not to suppress the voice of the individual Members of Parliament but to unite those with a common cause towards achieving change. Our voices here combined must bring about the change that people desire. We are the hope for the people here but if we are constantly suppressing ourselves, then where are we going?
What change are we bringing to the people?
If 650 Members of Parliament pursued 650 different areas of self interest, nothing will be achieved. For instance, I will perceive self interest and the other 650 are pursuing self interest, where would we go? This is something that as Parliament we must think about. Our legacy is important, we must be known. The same way we were able to push for the second amendment and the ruling party realising that they were also the opposition, that is progressive. You must also be behaving in that manner. Not to think that you can only be using the opposition.
It is important as a result for us to be able to work in unison in what we want to achieve. Look at the grid lock in the international system where whips are non-existent or effective. The Frank Underwood from the House of Card aside – this is research. I can tell you that there are a lot of American citizens who would not mind an actual whip to kick Congress into shape. Look at Congress.
The American electorate has Congress and as you know, the Republicans will invite Donald Trump to be president yet he has no position in the party. Even if you are not a Republican, they want to see what work you have to offer for the country. When are we going to reach such politics that we bring in somebody to say you are good for the country, run with the button stick. Those are the days that we yearn for in terms of us being the nation that we should be, but you cannot do that with a whipping system.
I feel sorry for the whips and I can tell you that they are strong in prayer every night because I can imagine how many prayers are prayed about them. They have a job to do and they belong to the party. Whips organise Members of Parliament to debate legislation and table amendments at Committee Stage and act as a conduit for concerns between MP’s and Government.
Eventually, yes, when all have submitted their input to a Bill, the whips demand your vote. We saw it here what was happening. That is the job of the whip. So, even in the British Parliament, House of Commons, that is what the whips do, they demand your vote because if the whip does not get your vote, they are fired.
However, when did compromise become a dirty word, especially in this increasingly divided age? If you are receiving anything you want for your constituency, someone else out there is getting nothing and that is important to think about. Remember as a former Conservative Whip,
John Randolph recently reminded Members that every vote is a free vote. This is what chief whip of the Conservative; John Randolph said that every vote is a free vote. You can rebel against the whips and work with your enemies to kill the Bill, that is democracy. Something which a certain Labour Member of Essington North who voted with the Tories, 15 533 times and now leaves, the Labour Party can attest.
Right to the point that the whips do a lot of good useful works and their compromise is absolutely essential in the democracy. If 650 people all impeccably followed their hearts, that would be restful, self righteous stalemate not productive politics.
However, the issue is not whether coordination and compromise are essential but where the whipping is the way to achieve them since productive cooperation is rarely achieved under the sanctions. I cannot see that it is. We have spoken about sanctions and they can be compelled to the whipping system. Members of Parliament have every motivation to compromise, to deliver to their constituency without whips who represent a top down model of management.
Businesses have been turning their backs on that sort of structural rigidity. Parliament seems stuck with an almost Victorian system of prefects, house masters and matrons just as head teachers did a worse not a better job when empowered with caning. The good work you see done by the whips will be better done without threat of a lash. So, you see kids being whipped with a whip but here they do not do that.
The need to get business done should not be confused with the desire to marshal troops along party lines which is an optical to productivity policy making. The claim that Americans would welcome whips is old given that the problem with congress at the moment is precisely that it is too partisan already. You can see that American politics is now cracking because it has become partisan. America is now losing its ideology of ‘one America, we love America and God bless America’. It is a good example as we now know that it is partisan politics. Good Bills which are good for health care and infrastructure, people do not vote. Now you need to be the majority to be able to do that.
As much as I appreciate correction of the dark arts, it seems you are excessively downplaying the disciplinarian nature of the whipping system. Too many Members of Parliament (MPs) have reported on the strong arm cohesion and even bullying of whips over decades for us to dismiss them. MPs are constantly complaining; if the Chief Whip did not know that – I am telling you today that these are bullying tactics and we are coerced into making decisions. I have always said that after a rally, if you want to see if it was a good rally or not, you must listen to the women who are now speaking going home after a rally not when they are there. When they are there they sing for you – after that they will say ‘he just gathered us there and did not give us food. He did not even leave a cent and he is getting into his car’. To me, it is important – [HON. MEMBRES: Inaudible interjections.]- This is research. The claim that Americans would one day see a partisan thing; much as I appreciate correction, too many MPs have reported on the strong arm like I have said, and a strong arm is an arm which must be adjusted. It is correct of course that the threat of lash has no place in modern parliamentary affairs and a comparison with today’s other work place. Environment is apt – any attempt to coerce a colleague through bullying or blackmail will rightly be condemned and those same standards deserve to apply to Westminister. This Parliament too must be able to do that. Members of Parliament must be free to exercise their rights. Members of Parliament must be free to speak out, not for them to be asked afterwards - why did you say this?
Thankfully, the days of strong arm of coercion are becoming memories. No longer would you find the safe in the Chief Whip’s office containing the infamous notebooks of Members’ follies and flows done away. This is the Tories official “sheet list”. All night sittings are gone.
There are social hours, crèche facilities, human resources and so on. It is critical. This is important for this Parliament to understand that there must be facilities. Today, women who have babies have a right to be in this Parliament but there must be a crèche which looks after those
children.
This is the modern day of politics that we are talking about and that becomes more important. Many MPs may miss the rough and tumble age but it is a welcome evolution. That is why I champion reform over ruling. It is about reform over ruling. To me, reform is more important than ruling and we are always asking ourselves in the political parties, that is this reform or it is ruling? Are the generations to come going to say this is ruling or reform? We have that challenge and task of ensuring that we reform for other generations to also be part of this country.
That said, those men and women who served in the Whip’s office in the past, much as I agree with their mercies deserve to be consigned there. Motivations that were deeply felt and even noble – they believed in the calls of their parties. It is important. The Chief Whips believed in the calls of their parties. If you also believe that you do not believe in the calls of your party, they will be able to point you out. That is why I think parliamentarians in this country make a mistake and are going to hold the elections under a party name. The moment that you go under a party name, you are subjected to the party rules, party’s dirty tricks as well and constitution – this is not good.
It is important that when you are going towards elections, that nomination court is signed by a party person. When I was Chairman of Mashonaland West Province, I would sign; it was ZANU PF then. My reference to the congress is an acknowledgement that too many members seek only what optimistic deals they can get for their districts in times of partisan deadlock and not for the party or the country. Now, we have got politics of people feeding themselves. It is no longer for the party. You see Cabinet Ministers here - are they serving the
Government, party or themselves? We now have more Cabinet
Ministers becoming rich everyday because they have now forgotten why they are in those positions. They do not even care about the party. Being here as a Cabinet Minister, is representing your party but they are undermining the sanity of this Parliament – the mandate it has. They have disrespected this Parliament because they are no longer about anything; they are about opportunistic deals that they can get for themselves. That is what it has been reduced to.
Moreover, stories from the whip’s office now testify to its more professional human resource role – delaying with more pressing domestic and even emotional struggles. Chief Whips - when we come to Parliament we have issues. Do you have offices that can accommodate us and do you have time for us? Do you have a person in your office that can counsel because you may manage people but you must find the personnel to be able to do that? We have problems when we come here. Some would have driven without fuel and when they get here, they do not know how to get back. We had a situation last week when there was no fuel for Member of Parliament to go back home and now what happens? How did they get home? When it is time for you to talk to them, you are not seen. You only meet when you want your way but you are not there when it is to do with their welfare. That must certainly change at the end of the day.
Dealing with the workplace domestic or even emotional struggle – I am not saying that the whip and the stick have been replaced with kittens licking Members of Parliament into submission, but it is an indication that whatever form it takes, politics still requires collaboration between Members and a structure through which to do it. There must be collaboration. No wonder why people win through structures - that is collaboration. British theme attached to the adversarial rough and tumble of polarised debate but it seems to me our exchange might provide an opportunity to model an alternative. Can we get beyond a yes or no answer to our question and find some kind of consensus? A consensus is critical when you have national interest and it is key.
I run an organisation called Youth Advocacy Reform and
Democracy (YARD) where I invite young people from political parties.
I created it when I could see that politics in the youth was too much. We have no constitution, we run by objectives. The only way we agree is through a consensus because I believe the young people in YARD have got the capacity. They are educated and why can they not reason? If you believe this is black, convince the others that it is black and that becomes a way of life in many ways.
You say you champion reform over rule – I too generally prefer evolution to revolution but to push the matter further, sometimes evolution leads to the birth of a new species. I am a little bit sceptical that the Whips really have changed as much as you say they have, especially given the spate of recent claims about the bullying. This is important because political parties Chief Whips are now known for bullying rather than pushing the welfare of Member of Parliament. They are now known for having more cars and pushing for their own benefits and not Members of Parliament. If you are not right, then the only reason we do not need to abolish the whip is that it has effectively abolished itself. If that is the case, let us make it official. Words and symbolism matter. So, drop the word and rename the whips office. I would like the whips office to be named Members Coordination and support because that is what their job is. So the word chief whip must not be there because it is coersive. Rather than simply trusting, the bad old days of the whip are gone. Now will be a good time to cement positive changes you say have occurred while getting rid of the last of the prefect bullying that should remain.
This reformed office must however make sure it is concerned more with the party unity. Most chief whips come here but their party is divided. There is more factionalism and they must also deal with that because most of them do not seem to understand the effects and its united party or party which a faction has to be one representing national interest or else it will be one more hang over from the already absolute two party system. In the post chief whip era there has to be more scope for cooperating across the bench rather than keeping the gap between them as wide as possible. We believe that if we do not talk to each other we are making progress. I would love to see Members of the ruling party talking to Members of the opposition on an idea, same thing members of the opposition going there but we seem to want to keep the distance and we believe in it growing bigger and bigger. Can we walk through the lobby together on this one, I ask of Parliamentarians. Can we be together the same way that we walk into this House when we are opening? Can we be able to do that? An astute political manoeuvre where Frank Underwood says “either I give ground or to be seen as a hypocrite over my desire for a consensus.”
I am of course only kidding and gratefully accept any opportunity to take up residence in any grey area rather than accept the false binary and yes or no referendum that are imposed. I certainly do not think that the culture surrounding the whips has changed completely. Rather it is changing due to necessity and changing due to necessity is that slowly Members of Parliament are becoming vocal and they are pushing for strong values and they are advocating. This usually happens towards the end of Parliament. You saw that historically when the President was impeached, Hon. Maridadi had moved the motion and I was seconding it but it was never accepted though it was there. When the time came to then unite, there was a meeting of minds where Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa would then move the motion and would be seconded by Hon. Maridadi.
I had to be spoken to not to second Hon. Maridadi. That has happened before. We impeached the former President because and I proudly say so that is the reason why I say to people there was never a coup but an impeachment process where we all came together. What then happens when we have come together is sad because we expected that on coming together, even when you hunt and you skin and slaughter, you must also give a piece to the one who also had a dog. In this instance however, even those that brought their dogs were never given anything. Those are tears which are not seen which people bemoan at the end of the day.
Where is that unity? Parliament came together and whenever we come together good results come out for the nation. The same as 2017 November, it was an approach for every Zimbabwean an intention to see a better Zimbabwe, but again we seem to march together but we do not march together in the corridors of power, which again is a betrayal of the people. It is important to understand how come with all things being difficult that motion was agreed upon where you had a situation where Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa of ZANU PF moves the motion and Hon. Maridadi of MDC seconds the motion. It seems we are only there when we want to move somebody out of power but not for the good of our
welfare.
I implore Members of Parliament to come together for your welfare for once because those that you came together for; their welfare has already been taken care of. It is about time to take care of your own welfare. Of course, only kidding and gratefully accept my opportunity to take up the residents start up I am talking about. An interesting reference to Corbyn incidentally whose whips must be having the right old time - Rose Wintenton, the current labour chief – you would have to adjust this because I did this research a while ago and I could not equally edit it. So, that must be taken on board. Of late, I have been the one trying to calm aggression from the wider party over a loyalist list.
Diselection threaths and more is unusual case of leader office trying to whip the Members while the whips try to incorporate dissenting views. So, now the leader is now whipping while the chief whip is now trying to deal with the dissenting voice from Members. But you are right, words matter and the name whip derived as we know from the whippers in the direct from the hounds of the fox hunt. I wish Members could know where the whip name comes from. The name whip comes from the direct hounds at a fox hunt when they are hounding that is what happens is hardly helpful. Besides, branding the new department could be fun. I do not like the name whip.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there has got to be a better name for that position, coordinator and there are many titles that Zimbabwe can come up with.
What about the reasonable expectation of bilateral enabling legislation. The well being of House implementation practice that certainly would not work. Whatever the future of the office, any signs however symbolic or ancient system is willing to flex and bent to represent or accommodate the public’s desire for more progressive and cooperative politics will still be recognising the value and purpose of the party. Unity as a worthy goal – I will accept your amendments in many ways to the Bills that you make and will walk through the lobby with you or better still get the whips to pay us off and go to the park.
No matter what, after a session has been done, we then go and talk about it in terms of those amendments. The whips department is made of Members of Parliament that have been appointed by the party leader in Parliament. They maintain party unity on key legislative divisions or votes. These whips receive a ministerial salary and both the Government and opposition employ them from their respective parties. Without a whip, party policies would be extremely hard to push through. For Government pursuing their programmes in Parliament requires a majority and this could be very difficult to achieve when you are not united with others. We saw what happened and it was out of unity that we came to that Amendment No. 2.
Now that every issue is up for debate, not all Members toe the line. In other words, not all Members obey the leader’s position. In order to maintain unity, a mixture of incentives and punishment are used. One of the issues which we must understand is that when you are being whipped, in most countries, there are incentives given. That Amendment No. 2 that was passed, incentives were supposed to be given but unfortunately they were not given. There is no party that has no budget for incentives when they want to pass something. Even incentives given to the Members of the ruling party; but that was never done even to say that in doing this we shall be able to show that your welfare or salary which was back dated you are paid for, you get a duty free car. All these are some of the incentives which are used because that is really what it is about. A carrot has got to be dangled.
There are various methods in luring an MP into voting for a certain issue in a certain way in Parliament. Some of these methods are listed below. Every week the whips department issues a list that goes out informing MPs of any upcoming parliamentary votes; this list is known as the whip. The most important votes are underlined. The most significant is a debate. The most important of which are donated by the three line whips which are usually crucial events and if an individual within the party refuses to obey the three line whip, they can be suspended from the party and this is known as removing a whip. A recent example here are MPs who have failed to toe the party and as a result Section 129 (k) has been used on them. However, their disobedience did not lead to major repercussions as the party was split and the issue then damages the party at the end of the day.
Many believe that the whip system is antiquated and discredited. It makes party members more of delegates for their party. Some Members of Parliament have made a name being mavericks tolerated by their party. I do not know of any Members of Parliament and I think the likes of Hon Nduna, celebrated by their party but we need more in terms of that. I recall we had people like Hon Mutseyami and Hon Munengami at the time as well who would be tolerated for doing certain things and so forth. The problem is leadership; how it can demand party unity when there are factions in the party. The factions in the party are the ones that are destroying the non- performance of the party because the whip is also suspected to belong to a certain faction. When they come here, the factions again emanate. How then do you contribute positively when you are having to deal with factional politics which is started off by leaders.
There is no ways whips can be effective in that regard. The unity of the political parties amongst themselves before they unite with anyone is critical at the end of the day. Unfortunately that really is not the case.
Over US$100 million was used in the by-elections and it takes about US$5 million for a by-election. How many hospitals, schools and clinics would have been built? Today we lament all the social amenities which are poor but when it comes to one being expelled from the party, the money is there for a by-election. This is taxpayers money. Why have we decided to settle our scores using taxpayers money? This is the reason why I believe that political parties are irrelevant in the modern day politics. What we need are people who will be able to represent people for their tenure which the people would have voted for. Equally, when Section 129(k) is being exercised, the party must not have the final say in the expulsion but the Constitutional Court. The Constitutional Court must be able to hear both sides. There is no court or justice in political parties. I do not like you – go! Next they fear that they will be arrested in case they want to argue and so forth.
Not many can survive that politics. So it is important that we consider the money which goes towards this. At the same time we cannot have a situation where certain Members of Parliament have been expelled because Government feels it is not their stronghold and it has nothing to do with them, they suspend elections. It cannot work like that. The people in these constituencies are suffering. They need representation. Who is representing them? It is important that it is systematic and consistent the same way that the party was. So determined to have the so-called gamatox which I was said I belong to out of office and have quick by-elections must be seen of the other side because there is no democracy when people are not being represented. The Constitutional Court must have the final say in ensuring that the party constitution was followed and this person needs to be expelled.
It is my fervent hope that in those people who are debating this, if fairness has to prevail, may we not allow this section to rest in political parties but may it rest in the Constitutional Court which would then have a final determination whether one is expelled or not. People must understand that the Speaker is the one who carries the message and of late, there has been a lot of outcry to who expels who. What position should you have in the party? It is not at all written down and it not coming from them. Section 129 (k) does not talk about who has the authority to expel the other. That on its own is a problem and as a result, it has got to be attended in all aspects.
Section 129(k) says “If a member has ceased to belong to a political parties of which he or she was a member when elected in
Parliament and the political party concerned, by written notice to the Speaker”. The political party concerned, it is not clear who in the political party has authority because every member of the ruling party from ZANU PF is a member of a cell. So what about a cell member who writes a letter to say, we want him expelled? How then do you stop them?
So precedence is set and there has got to be a clear position on who is the authority. It does not talk about the Constitution and it does not talk about the Secretary-General of the party or the President of the party. You could see even in South Africa, the ANC Secretary-General wrote a letter expelling the President of the party. So with the factional fights
that happen, factionalism prevails at the end of the day more than constitutionalism and democracy which hurts a country and it becomes very difficult for a country to be united and for Parliament to be united when that happens. I bemoan Section 129 (1) (k) for it is a stumbling block for the democracy of this country and for the development of this country for politicians.
Politicians are in fear every day, mapoliticians arikukwira makomo avasingazive vachinamata kuti mangwana ndinogona kudzingwa. Vave kutoenda kudzin’anga kuti ndiwane basa iri nekuti mangwana mumwe anongotaura kuti ayihwa. So it also creates unfair advantages to a lot of people. Women must be protected. Other politicians demand so much from women because they say, ‘if you do not then exercise that, I am going to expel you from the party’. This is cruel and it cannot be allowed to happen. May women be free to represent their people without being compromised because of fear of being expelled. I am talking about some women and not all women – so it is important.
Young girls are being abused – ‘come, I will make you a councillor with this whole thing of 30% that has come through, of women councillors’. The question is; are they there on merit or not? Already, there is a stigma in terms of women who are on proportionational representation kuti how are you chosen? You are chosen by the party leadership because you have something that you are doing with them. It is a stigma which again comes from this and whoever is seen talking even from a developmental point of view to this woman, the party leader fires you. So how then can we allow this to continue?
So in closing, I would like to say Mr. Speaker Sir that this issue can only be resolved by the Constitutional Court and it must be clear on who writes the letter? There must be two-thirds of the members who agree to it just the same way that we have two-thirds of the members in passing that – it must be that. So it is a requirement that must see itself in there but as far as I am concerned, we do not need it there. When the electorate has chosen somebody to be their leader for five years, they mean it. May the electorate of Zimbabwe be respected by showing them that the leader that you have chosen is with us for five years and after five years they can choose another leader. So that is something that needs to be inculcated into this Section 129 (1) (k).
I want to thank you and Mr. Speaker Sir, it has been long. I had done a lot of research on this and I hope that those who believe in research and development would have also learnt one or two things. Inasmuch as I bored a lot but when you research, you want to see your efforts going all the way. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to debate on this motion that Hon. Mliswa has brought to this august House. Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to start this debate by going into the history.
Most of us are aware that after Independence, this provision was not part of the Constitution. This provision came about around 1989 when the then ZUM leader, one Edgar “Two Boy” Tekere decided to move away from ZANU PF and formed his own political party called
ZUM. It is recorded that even after having lost the general election and even though he was campaigning against his former political party which was ZANU PF, he still remained in this august House and that infuriated his colleagues who were in ZANU PF then. They then decided to bring a constitutional amendment to try to change the Constitution so that whoever ceases to be a member of a political party would then be expelled from the party.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this clause has then been part of the Constitution of this country. In 2013, when people wrote the new Constitution, members of the public and the drafters of this Constitution also ensured that the provision of this clause remains in the Statute. Mr. Speaker Sir, the challenge that we have faced in the past years from the time that the Tekere clause was inserted, we have had a lot of challenges pertaining to the manner and way in which Section 129 (1) (k) has been implemented.
Admittedly Mr. Speaker Sir, there is a reason and the reason is to say, if you belong to a political party you also have to concede that certain of your rights are whittled down by virtue of your belonging to a party. Nevertheless, a member who is elected into the august House becomes a national leader by virtue of being a Member of Parliament. I recall Mr. Speaker Sir, in 2005 when there was a split in MDC – there were about 41 Members of Parliament for MDC then and 20 went on one side and 21 the other side. The leadership in the MDC then decided that no one would write a letter for recall primarily because those members had been elected and should be allowed to continue and complete their terms of office.
Then fast forward it to 2008 and 2013 elections up to the 2018 elections, you then realise that we have lost a number of parliamentarians from the MDC and even from ZANU PF. I recall I was not yet in this House, but I recall seeing other Members of Parliament from ZANU PF who were perceived to be gamatox then being recalled from this august House. I also know of a number of Members of Parliament from MDC, the likes of Hon. Madzimure and Hon. Biti being recalled from Parliament. I also recall Mr. Speaker Sir, even Hon. Dr.
Khupe here also being recalled from this august House and subsequently
Mr. Speaker Sir, you are aware that as we speak right now, this Parliament in this tenure has already lost more than 35 Members of Parliament through recalls. The challenge Mr. Speaker is not that a political party should not always have a position or say pertaining their deployees in Parliament or in council, they should actually have a say but it is the methodology or mechanism upon which political parties are handling this matter.
In my view Mr. Speaker, I think Hon. Mliswa is right in a certain way. Right in the sense that the current provisions as they stand are so narrow and are easy to manipulate. When you have got a clause which simply says when a member ceases to be a member of a political party but apart from Tekere, most of the people that have been recalled in this august House would not have ceased to members of a political party. They would be alleged to have ceased and unfortunately there is no due process to then balance to say have these people really ceased to be members of a political party.
In my view, there is a need for 129 (k) to be codified in an Act of
Parliament so that there are steps and procedures that need to then be followed to simply say if a party wants to remove somebody, there should be procedures and processes that follow. I know most Members of Parliament or all of us, when you are on the right side of the leadership of a political party, you always consider yourself to be safe, but one thing that we have learnt in history and life is that one week in politics is a very long time. Today you are very safe, tomorrow you can actually be shaken off and be seen to be on the other side.
This issue on recalls, no one can claim to be safe and say I am sure
I will never be recalled. All of us are potential casualties of this clause. The reason why it happens and the reason it pains, I know the process of coming into Parliament. Hon. Mliswa talks about it to say the parliamentarians - it is not that they get a lot of money or perks but the cost for one to come to Parliament is huge. Some people actually invest a lot of their family wealth for them to make it to Parliament. Some of them, first for you to contest primary elections, it is an easy task. One has to pump his or her own resources to the process.
Then you go to the general elections – yes, you will have the political party supporting you but it also depends on how rich that political party is because at other times the individual has to fork his or her own money to sustain that campaign. Finally, you come into this august House and the Clerk of Parliament asks you to take an oath to be a Member of Parliament. The thinking is that I am going to be the MP for Dzivaresekwa until the next election and God willing the people of Dzivaresekwa will return me back to Parliament. Imagine that in the midst of my tenure, unbeknown to the members of Dzivaresekwa, they only read in the newspaper to say aah, no, the MP for Dzivaresekwa has been recalled.
It is painful to the extent that a number of our Members of Parliament that have been recalled, it is unfortunate that we do not have the chance to then see some of these MPs when they are recalled.
Parliament will be putting pressure. You have to pay back the car loan. The society will also be putting pressure. Do you know Mr. Speaker that society by nature, their view of the MP is different from what you think?
Most people would rather have MPs go out there, work and even do the work for nothing but at the same time they would want to contribute, be it to funerals and other events.
Just imagine Mr. Speaker, you have been a Member of Parliament and people in the society have been calling you honourable and all of a sudden you are recalled. The ability of a member to manage the stress level is very difficult for most members. A number of people actually die of stress and others end up compromising because you now need to see how you can survive.
My view is that we need political parties to have a rein on their members. We need a mechanism unto which 129 (k) can actually be made practical. We need processes and procedures so that a member seated in an office cannot just write a letter. We need to have a mechanism of saying a party has actually gone through its internal disciplinary action. I recall my friend Gwisai when he was recalled in
MDC sometime ago, he had to be summoned by the late Gibson Sibanda to a hearing and he was then found guilty and was dismissed from the party. The party then wrote to Parliament.
At least the procedure had been done but this issue of just waking up in the morning you are alleged that you are in Gamatox or Lacoste and sometimes you are not even there. One of the things that you should also understand in political parties, all of us are members of political parties but do you know that in any political party, less than 5% of the people in that political party make decisions for or against? Most of us are just in the bus of that political party. We are like passengers and sometimes the decisions and penalties that we are punished for is actually beyond us.
So Mr. Speaker Sir, without further ado I just want to believe that 129 (k) needs in my view to be codified. We need to have a process or a system upon which we could actually have a mechanism which is fair to members and also to the electorate. In other countries what they have actually done is they have even said for a recall to happen, members of the constituency also need to have a say pertaining to the whole thing.
So the current state as it stands is narrow, very difficult and a disadvantage to Members of Parliament. It is true Mr. Speaker that when you come here in this august House a number of members do not debate on particular issues, not that they do not know. They know but they are afraid that if they say out their minds they will fall foul to the political lines. Whilst I agree on the need of the party to have some control but I also believe that it is important and imperative that 129 (k) in the Constitution should come back into an Act of Parliament that sets procedure, parameters and what needs to be done for a member to be recalled. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MLISWA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 1st June, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON. MPARIWA the House adjourned at Sixteen Minutes past Four o’clock
p.m. until Tuesday, 1st June, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 20th May, 2021.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM HON. MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We only received apologies from two Hon. Ministers. Hon. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development and Hon. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. We have two Ministers in the House. The Deputy Minister of Local Government and National Housing, Hon. Chombo and the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Matuke.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. What is Government policy regarding boundaries in rural areas. They demarcated those boundaries in 1980 but the current local authorities are not clear with those boundaries. They are selling land at growth points but they end up surpassing the boundaries ending up selling people’s fields. Now chiefs and headmen are also fast tracking, selling that land in fear of losing their land. There is also a problem where people are displaced by local authorities and they do not give people alternative land to settle. What is Government policy in terms of this?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Chief Chikwaka for the question. I agree with you Hon. Chief Chikwaka. We know that people are demarcating farms into residential areas which is not allowed. If they want that to happen, they should apply to the Ministry of Local Government for them to have permission to turn their farms into residential areas. Right now we are trying to rectify the problem of land barons and many people now rush to rural areas to buy land. After all, no chief or headman is allowed to sell land. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: I did not ask my question with reference to farming areas; I specified that it is a problem to us as Chiefs. What is Government programme in terms of clarifying the boundaries that were put in 1980 up to date; we do not even know the boundaries. They did their planning for growth points which are in rural areas, but we do not know the boundaries. So that is causing confusion. Local authorities are actually taking away farming land from people which is disturbing their livelihoods. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President. Most of the towns under local authorities right now are busy making master plans because a lot of urban areas want residential stands. So, we are waiting for them to conclude their master plans. We also expected local authorities and chiefs to give their input so if that process is completed, we will be able to go to the traditional leaders to inform them.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF. MAKUMBE: Do rural areas fall under local authorities, because the question is specifically to do with land that falls under traditional leaders.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Madam President, Zvimba at the moment is planning to make another master plan to incorporate other areas that surround Zvimba itself. It means those new master plans are going to affect other surrounding areas.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Is that not happening all over the country so that it can be done in collaboration?
HON. CHOMBO: Madam President, this is happening in collaboration with all local authorities. So I am saying before we finalise the process, we will go to the traditional leaders and inform them.
*HON. SEN. MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President Hon. Sen. Chikwaka tried to clarify. I would like to give an example, in Buhera we do not have one farm, those areas are growing – Chief Makumbe and Nyashanu boundaries converge at Murambinda and another side is of Chief Mundawarara. When we engaged the local authorities, they said they want to make a master plan but when those people heard about that, they are now panicking. When the growth points were built the local people were affected but they were not allocated stands. As we speak, they do not have land right now.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): I agree with what the Hon. Senator said. People who are now buying residential stands are usually people from far away, people who are residing in those new areas are mainly from far away or from other areas. So that is a problem I have seen that in Seke.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: In Murambinda it is local residents within the area that may be doing commercial activities in the growth point but now need other land.
*THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe let me help the you, I think the Hon. Minister must go and investigate because it shows that this problem is everywhere and not only affecting the two chiefs.
*HON. CHINAKE: Thank you Madam President, My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What does the Minister have in plan so that all people have access to clean water?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President and I thank the Hon. Sen. for such a pertinent question. The Government has the devolution fund which is 5%, that is in the Constitution. We give to local authorities so that they improve the living conditions of people looking at health, education, water, electricity and social amenities. So, right now we are seized with the issue because access to water is very limited to all the councils. We are urging the councils that funds for devolution can be used and people will get access to clean water. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President, my question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. This year we were blessed with a lot of rains but some areas received excessive rains and this damaged their crops. What is Government plan so that these people get access to food because some did not get a good harvest?
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Madam President concerning some areas that received a lot of rains and the crops were affected. Each and every year the ministry goes around the country looking at people who did not harvest anything and they take food there. The food for Social Welfare is not given only when there is drought, it is given even if we have a bumper harvest. There are some people like in the urban areas who need help continuously. Even if we go to the rural areas where we come from, there are people there who are living with disability who cannot fend for themselves. It is the wish of Government that they should continue to help them. Those places which were affected by the rains, we are busy right now moving around the country registering those people. If our register is complete, you will see us giving them food. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. I want to ask the Government what plans they have when it comes to veld fires because people are causing fires irresponsibly. Is it still the same penalties or you have changed the penalties? This year we received a lot of rains, which means we have a lot of tall grasses.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chirongoma for the pertinent question which touches on his province. I come from the same province with him, Mashonaland West and we top number one when it comes to veld fires. The Minister of Environment this week was in Cabinet. He came with a paper on what to do so that we prevent veld fires. A lot was talked about. What we are supposed to do is to sensitise people and the chiefs and to hold awareness campaigns so that people do not cause fires looking for wild animals for relish. We should come up with stiffer penalties to deter people from causing veld fires and also doing advocacy in schools so that people know and are aware of how important it is to look after our forests. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. I am speaking on behalf of the people in the urban areas and I have a question from them. We heard from Parliament about feeder roads that they want to be mended but there are roads which are damaging car tyres. So people are asking whether they...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Gweshe, you are not supposed to say you have been sent by somebody or ‘I heard somebody’ but you raise the question in your capacity as a Senator. So ask your question.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is; we have bad roads which are damaging tyres – are we allowed as citizens to engage graders that will remove those tar patches because they are damaging our tyres?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. There are various types of tyres. For example, we have State roads and council roads. The road that she is referring to in the locations is for the Ministry of Local Government. They are the ones who take care of those roads. What I can say is; since she is here she can answer the question on the roads that we find in the locations which are damaging our tyres.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President and thank you Hon. Sen. Gweshe for such a pertinent question. Right now, all our roads countrywide are not good. The issue has been taken up to Cabinet and we have come up with an Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme. We are now on Phase 2 and this programme encompasses all the roads from DDF and local authorities. If you go to the locations, you will find that some of the roads have started to be patched. If we complete Phase 2, it will be a thing of the past. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. O. HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. I wanted to forgo the question but I discovered that it is pertinent. I hope Hon. Ziyambi will be able to assist us since he sits in Cabinet. My question pertains to vaccines. Does Government know that there are areas where people are just being vaccinated and not being issued with cards? They are only being registered and yet they will not be given the cards. This is happening at Kuwirirana Clinic in Gokwe North. There are some people who are being vaccinated but they are not being given their vaccination card. There is a danger that if they get the first jab of vaccination they may not recall when exactly they will get the second jab because some of the people are elderly. My request is; may Government intervene and scrutinise the situation which is happening at Kuwirirana Clinic in Gokwe North? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President for the question. The answer is, there was a shortage of cards but those health facilities were supposed to issue them with temporary cards. The Government never at any time said people should get vaccinated but not get those cards because the Government knows the problem and the danger related to that. Indeed, someone may forget the dates. So, I will take that message to the Ministry of Health and Child Care to ensure that anyone who gets vaccinated should get a temporary card if there are no permanent cards as yet so that there is enough evidence when they go back for the second jab. I also got a temporary card when I was inoculated. I went back for the second jab, and I did not get the card. This is Government policy and not what is happening in Gokwe. I would want to thank the Hon. Senator for the observation.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to direct my question to the Leader of Government Business. How can Government assist our traffic police in controlling traffic, especially in Rotten Row? Sometimes motorists do not even comply and do not stop and that is a problem. How can Government assist on that issue?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I thank you Mr. President and I would also like to thank the Hon. Senator for that question which is very important on how the Police can be assisted. This week, the Minister of Local Government brought a paper after the President asked what we can do in order to repair roads in order to ensure that there is safe traffic flow in urban areas, especially after business hours. There is so much congestion and confusion.
The Committee that is being chaired by Hon. Minister July Moyo tabled a paper that indeed looks at all those things that include enforcement. We realised that even the Police are in serious trouble because the roads are in a poor state. Sometimes, the Police try to stop people from carrying passengers at undesignated points but they also realise that there are no properly designated areas. So, we ended up saying our roads should be expanded so that traffic may flow properly. For example, at Mbudzi roundabout, vendors and other illegal traders should be removed so that the road may be expanded.
There should also be repair and refurbishment of roads that go outside the city centre. That will solve our problems. As it is, the Police will not be able to properly solve this problem. They are trying but it is very difficult. We are saying, there will be repairs and refurbishments or roads, as well as, expansion so that we also have bus lanes.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What is Government policy in terms of pegging of residential stands? Where I stay, there are people who were allocated residential stands but there are no roads, water and sewer. So, that has caused a lot of commotion and people were wondering on what should start. Is it servicing or residential stands allocations? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for that question. Those are indeed topical issues with regards to allocation of stands. That problem started mainly when housing cooperatives started. Those cooperatives were given land to allocate to their members and they contracted developers. However, most of them just collected money from people and did not implement developments like roads and sewer and that is a problem. That is why we have problems in areas such as Caledonia and Epworth. People are staying in areas that are not properly planned; there is no minimum infrastructure like roads and sewer. That has led to an influx of land barons who allocated residential stands to people with no infrastructure put in place. Our policy is, no one will be allocated a residential stand when there is no infrastructure development for sewer, water reticulation and roads. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care and in his absence, I will direct to the Leader of the House. There is an outbreak of COVID 19 in Kwekwe and the variant came from India. We hear that Government has said anyone who comes from India should go on self paid quarantine. My question is, what is Government going to do in order to stop the spread of the disease because someone may return from India but fail to meet the expenses for their quarantine? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for such an important question concerning the Indian variant of Covid-19. Indeed, we started having that variant after the return of a citizen who had gone to India. After testing the patient and the immediate family, that is when they realised that. Indeed, the Minister of Health who is the Vice President gave a statement and there was confirmation that that variant was the one that is in India.
On Tuesday, Cabinet sat and it was agreed that people who will be returning from India as a first measure to protect the citizens have to prepare for quarantine at their own expense. Even if you show that you were examined and you are negative – for us to be satisfied, we require that you stay for 10 days in quarantine at your own expense. All our borders will be instructed to enforce so that we are able to identify those who are positive. That is the first measure we decided to take to protect citizens from that variant. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MATUPULA: Thank Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I have noticed that some of our prisoners who will have been let out after an amnesty; when they go out, they commit – crimes for example rape and gruesome murder. Is there a policy to assist the rehabilitation system on how to assess them if they are ready to be admitted into society?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question, it pertains to our programme of incarceration and rehabilitation and reintegration in society. What we have noticed Hon. President Sir, is we have low numbers of prisoners who get out and commit these levels of crimes that have been mentioned by the Hon. Senator. The majority of prisoners commit petty crimes so that they go back because they fail to get somebody to look after them. Even when they go back, they indicate that I committed this because I feel I am better off here because they could not find relatives or anyone to take care of them. I however admit that we need to strengthen our rehabilitation and correctional aspect so that those offenders that are released, regardless of whether it was an amnesty or after finishing their sentences, they can be truly integrated into society. Our screening process for those that we give amnesty is very stringent, to an extent that those that get amnesty we would have made sure that in our opinion they are ready to be integrated into society. We have correctional officers who do that job and we always endevour to ensure that those ones are ready but here and there, you get some who will then recommit crimes and end up back in prison. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President, my question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development. We find that in Zimbabwe, the majority of people earn their salaries in Zimbabwean dollars but when it comes to fuel at most of garages, they sell fuel in foreign currency. What policy is Government putting in place to correct this situation? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President, I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for that pertinent question. I think from last year, 2020, the Government gave permission that those with their free funds can import fuel and they can sell that fuel in US dollars or Rands so that they will be able to replenish their stocks. However, there are some dealers in the industry who continue to receive foreign currency through the RBZ and these are supposed sell that fuel in Zimbabwean dollars, for example RTGs, ecocash and so forth and not in US dollars.
We have heard that report – you do not find many service stations that are selling fuel in Zimbabwean dollars. At the moment, we are verifying whether that those service stations that receive foreign currency from RBZ are selling that fuel in Zimbabwean dollars or they are selling that fuel in US dollars. Once those investigations are completed, then we will be in a position to give a statement. We do have some service stations, although very few where you can get fuel in Zimbabwe dollars, for example at some PetroTrade service stations.
Most of those fuel companies that are given foreign currency by RBZ provide fuel to Government Ministries. CMED and PetroTrade are supposed to serve Government departments who buy fuel there in Zimbabwean dollars. Yes, we are very much aware that there is that problem, but the majority of our fuel these days is through DFI, this is where these companies use their free funds to buy fuel, import it and in turn sell that fuel in US dollars. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes, Hon. Minister, I think that question deserves very urgent attention because there are very few retail outlets which are selling fuel in Zimbabwean dollars. I think in Harare you get one fuel station, yet they are being the given money – every Tuesday the Reserve Bank Governor releases a statement on foreign currency.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, who is also the Leader of Government Business. I just want to know whether the people in Mola are getting transport at least to get to Kariba. They used to have water cars which used to go at reasonable price but to get to Mola is very difficult. I just want to know if there is anything helping the people around Mola to move from Mola to at least their nearest town which is Kariba. The roads are not good and there is no way you can access anything in that area.
With this COVID-19 also, I do not know how much they are getting to ensure that they get fair human treatment in terms of injections, PPEs and the like. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a very specific question Hon. Mudzuri.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. I indulge him because I come from Mashonaland West but most of the time, Hon. Chombo, there are portfolios dealing with this on a daily basis. However, what he said is very correct. If you want to go to Mola from Kariba by road you go to Karoi then Magunje and from Magunje to Mola, is a dirty dust road. You will need almost six hours to reach there. Recently, during the rainy season, the road was damaged but fortunately, it was repaired.
There is a long term solution which is under discussion. I think the Minister of Local Government can give further details in that regard. In terms of transport, DDF is sometimes there and sometimes it is not there. If we develop that whole corridor and have boats along Zambezi Road, it will significantly help the people of Siakobvu and Mola. More importantly also, we are resuscitating some projects that were abandoned a long time ago. One of them is developing the Administration Centre for Kariba at Siakobvu. It was abandoned a long time ago. We feel that if we spruce and re-develop that centre, there would not be need in the short term for people from that region to go to Kariba to access services. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Mudzuri for that question. I just want to emphasise that we are developing that corridor, Mola-Siakobvu and also, we are making sure that Siakobvu is open. Most of the people that come there need documentation like IDs and so forth, so if we make sure that our Administration Office is there, that will lessen work. In the short space of time, we are trying to encourage that boat to make sure that it plies regularly. So we are trying to make sure that DDF resuscitates that. I thank you.
+HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Education. What is Government saying pertaining to the education of children? Children were going to school for only three days a week. Recently, they changed to go for a whole week but parents are supposed to pay an extra fee of US$5. Also, what is the problem with Government not paying teachers so that they teach the children? Even though we are paying the US$5, they are only learning for 5 hours. Teachers are saying, for children to learn the whole day parents should pay US$10. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. I will answer the first part of the question and defer the last part on salaries to the relevant Minister who is here. On the first part, schools have made arrangements to comply with COVID-19 regulations. Even though learners may not be attending school for the whole week, they cover material that they are supposed to cover that particular week in order to comply with COVID-19 regulations. So, it is not much per se; the physical attendance, every day five days a week, the matter is whether learners are getting the information that they are supposed to get for that duration of time in order to satisfy the requirements of the syllabus and ensure that they comply with COVID-19 regulations.
I am not sure that there is a direct linkage to COVID -19 regulations and the practice then of charging an extra money, which as Government we do not allow for learners to learn extra hours. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Mr. President. On the issue of teachers’ salaries, I think negotiations are underway. When we talk about salaries, we include Ministry of Finance and also our Ministry, as well as workers themselves. Negotiations are underway and I hope they will strike a balance. Right now, I cannot give a correct position on whether we are going to come up with a real figure and when but I can only comment that negotiations are in progress. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President, my supplementary to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is that the Minister should help us by listening to the truth that we are telling him. We are the ones coming from the rural areas and we are the ones who have children who are borders and learning in towns. Children in the rural areas are going to school twice a week, yet their counterparts in the urban areas are going to school daily and are also able to access internet and their parents can afford to pay for extra lessons, yet when they sit for examinations, the examination paper will be the same. Taking into cognizance that children were greatly affected by lockdowns due to COVID-19; you should help us Minister so that our children receive the same education throughout the country.
* HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Senator Chief. If that is what is taking place, it is not right and it is not Government policy. What I want to encourage is that the Government allows each and every school to come up with a school development association. We must use this platform to report the school to the relevant authorities. If the teachers who are doing this are known and the parents are just looking at these teachers, the Government cannot act without proof. They must sit down and ask the teachers why they are doing it. If there is no satisfactory answer, they must then take their case further.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is your point of order?
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: My point of order is that the Minister is not helping in his answer. He is just telling us to consult and go to associations when he is representing Government. Government has a policy that must be followed everywhere in the country. So we are asking that this request is coming from Senators, it must go to Cabinet and they must make sure that this is processed so that the correct position is taken as per Government policy.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President, I think I have answered. The Government policy is that it does not condone such practices. In order to deal with such practices, there must be a report to indicate that this particular school is behaving in a manner that is not consistent with Government policy and the reason why I said let us have our SDC engaging the school authorities is to get a speedy solution to it. I never run away from the question. Initially when it was asked, I thought that the reason why learners are going 3 days is because there is need to comply with COVID-19 regulations. Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema said it has nothing to do with COVID-19 regulations and I admitted and I said if that is the case, what is happening is against Government policy of which the Government policy is that learners must learn. The immediate solution is to mobilise our SDCs to engage the school authorities. When that fails, then there is need for the Ministry or Government at large to ensure that they enforce that provision. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 66.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Mr. President, I move that time for Question Without Notice be extended by 15 minutes. We have burning questions to ask the Minister here present, I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. What is Government policy concerning chiefs and village heads who are recognised in the Constitution when it comes to arbitration? If they do so, if the defended is not happy, he will go straight to the Magistrate Court and we find a chief is being given summons and asked to stand in the same court with the same person that he would have given judgment to. What is your policy?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. The Chief’s question was asked in Mt Darwin when we were opening a new court. The senior magistrate said that they were going to look into it so that it will not happen. So it is an issue which is under our purview. We are going to take the necessary steps.
*HON. SEN. MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Leader of the House because it is about the education sector. What is painful is that everyone is doing what they want in the education system. In the rural areas, we got an average of 12% pass rate for Grade 7. This means those children are represented by most of us here. This war between the Government and its workers is affecting our children. We want to know Government’s plan so that what is happening may come to an end because this is affecting the future generation. Parents are paying double – you pay the school fees and the private teacher and that is the normal thing. Parents see that it is better for parents to pay double. We want to know what the Government is saying by stopping individualism so that we go back to the map when it comes to education.
THE MNISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Sen. for your question. Mr. President, the question is not different from what I have responded to before. As Government policy, we have our wishes that our children should learn and pass and the teachers are there. Some schools are there and some schools are being built. My biggest plea is that for our children’s education, we should all be involved in their education. That is why the Government has allowed that at each and every school, there should be an SDC Committee which works hand in hand with the administration of schools so that they look at challenges in the community. That SDC Committee which works hand in hand with the teachers has powers to approach the Ministry of Education articulating the challenges that they are facing in their schools. That is the answer that I gave. For now, I cannot give any other response that we can approach these teachers and take the law into our hands because we want to leave it to the rightful people which are the Ministry of Education.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and in his absence I will direct the question to the Minister of Justice. What is Government policy with regards to the auction system that they talk about? When they talk about the auction system, we understand it has dropped from the top going down and they say it is moving very well, which is not what is transpiring on the ground. The percentages that are prevailing in the economy are no longer good. What is Government policy with regards to auction system? They are busy telling us that it is working and yet it is not working in reality.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Did you understand that Hon. Ziyambi? Repeat your question because it is not clear at all.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I am saying the auction system says the exchange rate is at USD1 is equal to Z$84.00.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I would like to thank the Hon. Sen. I also thought he was going to explain why or how USD1 to Z$84 exchange rate is not working so that I can understand because in our information, we are saying when people apply for the auction system, the banks write to them and tell them how much they have been allocated so that after funding, they get their acquittals. I wanted to understand where it is failing so that we can really rectify.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. Maybe it is because of my minimal education. Our understanding is that when the auction rate is at Z$84, it would apply everywhere and that was meant to stop the black market rate. When we go right now into the shops, the exchange rate is now ZS120 or more than Z$84. The exchange rate prevailing in the economy is more than the auction system exchange rate.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFFAIRS (HON., ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. The auction system is working very well – what he is talking about is that we have an auction system rate and the parallel system rate. The shops for retailers or traders are supposed to use the rate that will be prevailing at the auction system, but experts in finance who talk about transition from multi-currency to one currency – they say if you look for money from the parallel market, it will not be equal. What is supposed to happen is that there must be stability. If you look at what is prevailing in the market now is that the rate is no longer going up like what was happening before. That is what the Ministry of Finance and the experts are working on so that we do not have a lot of distortions. In order for that not to happen, we encourage that people should use the formal system. I am glad that it is working but at some point we will eventually get to where we want to get to where we get a stable exchange rate both in the formal and informal. If you look at the inflation rate, it shows that it is going down. Thank you.
Questions without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
NATIONAL DISABILITY POLICY
- HON. SEN. TONGOGARA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House when the National Disability Policy to alleviate the plight of people living with disability will be enacted into law.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): The National Disability Policy was adopted by Cabinet on 9 February, 2021 and the plan is to officially launch the policy before the end of June, 2021. The National Disability Policy outlines the goals that the Government hopes to achieve with regards to disability inclusion and the methods and principles that it will use to achieve such goals. The aim is to enhance the well-being of persons with disabilities in both rural and urban areas and in all the 10 provinces of Zimbabwe thereby alleviating their plight.
In addition to the National Disability Policy, the Persons with Disabilities Bill have been drafted and was briefly considered by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation in March, 2021. The Bill is currently being revised through a peer review process by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs (Attorney General’s Office). The plan is to resubmit the Persons with Disabilities Bill before the end of June, 2021 for further consideration by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation.
The National Disability Policy has been aligned to the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act, 2013 and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, (UNCRPD) (2006), which Zimbabwe ratified in September, 2013. The Persons with Disabilities Bill is also expected to domesticate and be aligned to the same instruments.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE), the Senate adjourned at Nine Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday 8th June, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 20th May, 2021.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM HON. MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We only received apologies from two Hon. Ministers. Hon. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development and Hon. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. We have two Ministers in the House. The Deputy Minister of Local Government and National Housing, Hon. Chombo and the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Matuke.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. What is Government policy regarding boundaries in rural areas. They demarcated those boundaries in 1980 but the current local authorities are not clear with those boundaries. They are selling land at growth points but they end up surpassing the boundaries ending up selling people’s fields. Now chiefs and headmen are also fast tracking, selling that land in fear of losing their land. There is also a problem where people are displaced by local authorities and they do not give people alternative land to settle. What is Government policy in terms of this?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Chief Chikwaka for the question. I agree with you Hon. Chief Chikwaka. We know that people are demarcating farms into residential areas which is not allowed. If they want that to happen, they should apply to the Ministry of Local Government for them to have permission to turn their farms into residential areas. Right now we are trying to rectify the problem of land barons and many people now rush to rural areas to buy land. After all, no chief or headman is allowed to sell land. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: I did not ask my question with reference to farming areas; I specified that it is a problem to us as Chiefs. What is Government programme in terms of clarifying the boundaries that were put in 1980 up to date; we do not even know the boundaries. They did their planning for growth points which are in rural areas, but we do not know the boundaries. So that is causing confusion. Local authorities are actually taking away farming land from people which is disturbing their livelihoods. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President. Most of the towns under local authorities right now are busy making master plans because a lot of urban areas want residential stands. So, we are waiting for them to conclude their master plans. We also expected local authorities and chiefs to give their input so if that process is completed, we will be able to go to the traditional leaders to inform them.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF. MAKUMBE: Do rural areas fall under local authorities, because the question is specifically to do with land that falls under traditional leaders.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Madam President, Zvimba at the moment is planning to make another master plan to incorporate other areas that surround Zvimba itself. It means those new master plans are going to affect other surrounding areas.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Is that not happening all over the country so that it can be done in collaboration?
HON. CHOMBO: Madam President, this is happening in collaboration with all local authorities. So I am saying before we finalise the process, we will go to the traditional leaders and inform them.
*HON. SEN. MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President Hon. Sen. Chikwaka tried to clarify. I would like to give an example, in Buhera we do not have one farm, those areas are growing – Chief Makumbe and Nyashanu boundaries converge at Murambinda and another side is of Chief Mundawarara. When we engaged the local authorities, they said they want to make a master plan but when those people heard about that, they are now panicking. When the growth points were built the local people were affected but they were not allocated stands. As we speak, they do not have land right now.
*THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): I agree with what the Hon. Senator said. People who are now buying residential stands are usually people from far away, people who are residing in those new areas are mainly from far away or from other areas. So that is a problem I have seen that in Seke.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: In Murambinda it is local residents within the area that may be doing commercial activities in the growth point but now need other land.
*THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe let me help the you, I think the Hon. Minister must go and investigate because it shows that this problem is everywhere and not only affecting the two chiefs.
*HON. CHINAKE: Thank you Madam President, My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What does the Minister have in plan so that all people have access to clean water?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam President and I thank the Hon. Sen. for such a pertinent question. The Government has the devolution fund which is 5%, that is in the Constitution. We give to local authorities so that they improve the living conditions of people looking at health, education, water, electricity and social amenities. So, right now we are seized with the issue because access to water is very limited to all the councils. We are urging the councils that funds for devolution can be used and people will get access to clean water. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Madam President, my question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. This year we were blessed with a lot of rains but some areas received excessive rains and this damaged their crops. What is Government plan so that these people get access to food because some did not get a good harvest?
*THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Madam President concerning some areas that received a lot of rains and the crops were affected. Each and every year the ministry goes around the country looking at people who did not harvest anything and they take food there. The food for Social Welfare is not given only when there is drought, it is given even if we have a bumper harvest. There are some people like in the urban areas who need help continuously. Even if we go to the rural areas where we come from, there are people there who are living with disability who cannot fend for themselves. It is the wish of Government that they should continue to help them. Those places which were affected by the rains, we are busy right now moving around the country registering those people. If our register is complete, you will see us giving them food. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. I want to ask the Government what plans they have when it comes to veld fires because people are causing fires irresponsibly. Is it still the same penalties or you have changed the penalties? This year we received a lot of rains, which means we have a lot of tall grasses.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Chirongoma for the pertinent question which touches on his province. I come from the same province with him, Mashonaland West and we top number one when it comes to veld fires. The Minister of Environment this week was in Cabinet. He came with a paper on what to do so that we prevent veld fires. A lot was talked about. What we are supposed to do is to sensitise people and the chiefs and to hold awareness campaigns so that people do not cause fires looking for wild animals for relish. We should come up with stiffer penalties to deter people from causing veld fires and also doing advocacy in schools so that people know and are aware of how important it is to look after our forests. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. I am speaking on behalf of the people in the urban areas and I have a question from them. We heard from Parliament about feeder roads that they want to be mended but there are roads which are damaging car tyres. So people are asking whether they...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Gweshe, you are not supposed to say you have been sent by somebody or ‘I heard somebody’ but you raise the question in your capacity as a Senator. So ask your question.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is; we have bad roads which are damaging tyres – are we allowed as citizens to engage graders that will remove those tar patches because they are damaging our tyres?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. There are various types of tyres. For example, we have State roads and council roads. The road that she is referring to in the locations is for the Ministry of Local Government. They are the ones who take care of those roads. What I can say is; since she is here she can answer the question on the roads that we find in the locations which are damaging our tyres.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President and thank you Hon. Sen. Gweshe for such a pertinent question. Right now, all our roads countrywide are not good. The issue has been taken up to Cabinet and we have come up with an Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme. We are now on Phase 2 and this programme encompasses all the roads from DDF and local authorities. If you go to the locations, you will find that some of the roads have started to be patched. If we complete Phase 2, it will be a thing of the past. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. O. HUNGWE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. I wanted to forgo the question but I discovered that it is pertinent. I hope Hon. Ziyambi will be able to assist us since he sits in Cabinet. My question pertains to vaccines. Does Government know that there are areas where people are just being vaccinated and not being issued with cards? They are only being registered and yet they will not be given the cards. This is happening at Kuwirirana Clinic in Gokwe North. There are some people who are being vaccinated but they are not being given their vaccination card. There is a danger that if they get the first jab of vaccination they may not recall when exactly they will get the second jab because some of the people are elderly. My request is; may Government intervene and scrutinise the situation which is happening at Kuwirirana Clinic in Gokwe North? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President for the question. The answer is, there was a shortage of cards but those health facilities were supposed to issue them with temporary cards. The Government never at any time said people should get vaccinated but not get those cards because the Government knows the problem and the danger related to that. Indeed, someone may forget the dates. So, I will take that message to the Ministry of Health and Child Care to ensure that anyone who gets vaccinated should get a temporary card if there are no permanent cards as yet so that there is enough evidence when they go back for the second jab. I also got a temporary card when I was inoculated. I went back for the second jab, and I did not get the card. This is Government policy and not what is happening in Gokwe. I would want to thank the Hon. Senator for the observation.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to direct my question to the Leader of Government Business. How can Government assist our traffic police in controlling traffic, especially in Rotten Row? Sometimes motorists do not even comply and do not stop and that is a problem. How can Government assist on that issue?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I thank you Mr. President and I would also like to thank the Hon. Senator for that question which is very important on how the Police can be assisted. This week, the Minister of Local Government brought a paper after the President asked what we can do in order to repair roads in order to ensure that there is safe traffic flow in urban areas, especially after business hours. There is so much congestion and confusion.
The Committee that is being chaired by Hon. Minister July Moyo tabled a paper that indeed looks at all those things that include enforcement. We realised that even the Police are in serious trouble because the roads are in a poor state. Sometimes, the Police try to stop people from carrying passengers at undesignated points but they also realise that there are no properly designated areas. So, we ended up saying our roads should be expanded so that traffic may flow properly. For example, at Mbudzi roundabout, vendors and other illegal traders should be removed so that the road may be expanded.
There should also be repair and refurbishment of roads that go outside the city centre. That will solve our problems. As it is, the Police will not be able to properly solve this problem. They are trying but it is very difficult. We are saying, there will be repairs and refurbishments or roads, as well as, expansion so that we also have bus lanes.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What is Government policy in terms of pegging of residential stands? Where I stay, there are people who were allocated residential stands but there are no roads, water and sewer. So, that has caused a lot of commotion and people were wondering on what should start. Is it servicing or residential stands allocations? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for that question. Those are indeed topical issues with regards to allocation of stands. That problem started mainly when housing cooperatives started. Those cooperatives were given land to allocate to their members and they contracted developers. However, most of them just collected money from people and did not implement developments like roads and sewer and that is a problem. That is why we have problems in areas such as Caledonia and Epworth. People are staying in areas that are not properly planned; there is no minimum infrastructure like roads and sewer. That has led to an influx of land barons who allocated residential stands to people with no infrastructure put in place. Our policy is, no one will be allocated a residential stand when there is no infrastructure development for sewer, water reticulation and roads. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care and in his absence, I will direct to the Leader of the House. There is an outbreak of COVID 19 in Kwekwe and the variant came from India. We hear that Government has said anyone who comes from India should go on self paid quarantine. My question is, what is Government going to do in order to stop the spread of the disease because someone may return from India but fail to meet the expenses for their quarantine? I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for such an important question concerning the Indian variant of Covid-19. Indeed, we started having that variant after the return of a citizen who had gone to India. After testing the patient and the immediate family, that is when they realised that. Indeed, the Minister of Health who is the Vice President gave a statement and there was confirmation that that variant was the one that is in India.
On Tuesday, Cabinet sat and it was agreed that people who will be returning from India as a first measure to protect the citizens have to prepare for quarantine at their own expense. Even if you show that you were examined and you are negative – for us to be satisfied, we require that you stay for 10 days in quarantine at your own expense. All our borders will be instructed to enforce so that we are able to identify those who are positive. That is the first measure we decided to take to protect citizens from that variant. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MATUPULA: Thank Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I have noticed that some of our prisoners who will have been let out after an amnesty; when they go out, they commit – crimes for example rape and gruesome murder. Is there a policy to assist the rehabilitation system on how to assess them if they are ready to be admitted into society?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for the question, it pertains to our programme of incarceration and rehabilitation and reintegration in society. What we have noticed Hon. President Sir, is we have low numbers of prisoners who get out and commit these levels of crimes that have been mentioned by the Hon. Senator. The majority of prisoners commit petty crimes so that they go back because they fail to get somebody to look after them. Even when they go back, they indicate that I committed this because I feel I am better off here because they could not find relatives or anyone to take care of them. I however admit that we need to strengthen our rehabilitation and correctional aspect so that those offenders that are released, regardless of whether it was an amnesty or after finishing their sentences, they can be truly integrated into society. Our screening process for those that we give amnesty is very stringent, to an extent that those that get amnesty we would have made sure that in our opinion they are ready to be integrated into society. We have correctional officers who do that job and we always endevour to ensure that those ones are ready but here and there, you get some who will then recommit crimes and end up back in prison. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President, my question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development. We find that in Zimbabwe, the majority of people earn their salaries in Zimbabwean dollars but when it comes to fuel at most of garages, they sell fuel in foreign currency. What policy is Government putting in place to correct this situation? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Mr. President, I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for that pertinent question. I think from last year, 2020, the Government gave permission that those with their free funds can import fuel and they can sell that fuel in US dollars or Rands so that they will be able to replenish their stocks. However, there are some dealers in the industry who continue to receive foreign currency through the RBZ and these are supposed sell that fuel in Zimbabwean dollars, for example RTGs, ecocash and so forth and not in US dollars.
We have heard that report – you do not find many service stations that are selling fuel in Zimbabwean dollars. At the moment, we are verifying whether that those service stations that receive foreign currency from RBZ are selling that fuel in Zimbabwean dollars or they are selling that fuel in US dollars. Once those investigations are completed, then we will be in a position to give a statement. We do have some service stations, although very few where you can get fuel in Zimbabwe dollars, for example at some PetroTrade service stations.
Most of those fuel companies that are given foreign currency by RBZ provide fuel to Government Ministries. CMED and PetroTrade are supposed to serve Government departments who buy fuel there in Zimbabwean dollars. Yes, we are very much aware that there is that problem, but the majority of our fuel these days is through DFI, this is where these companies use their free funds to buy fuel, import it and in turn sell that fuel in US dollars. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Yes, Hon. Minister, I think that question deserves very urgent attention because there are very few retail outlets which are selling fuel in Zimbabwean dollars. I think in Harare you get one fuel station, yet they are being the given money – every Tuesday the Reserve Bank Governor releases a statement on foreign currency.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, who is also the Leader of Government Business. I just want to know whether the people in Mola are getting transport at least to get to Kariba. They used to have water cars which used to go at reasonable price but to get to Mola is very difficult. I just want to know if there is anything helping the people around Mola to move from Mola to at least their nearest town which is Kariba. The roads are not good and there is no way you can access anything in that area.
With this COVID-19 also, I do not know how much they are getting to ensure that they get fair human treatment in terms of injections, PPEs and the like. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a very specific question Hon. Mudzuri.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. I indulge him because I come from Mashonaland West but most of the time, Hon. Chombo, there are portfolios dealing with this on a daily basis. However, what he said is very correct. If you want to go to Mola from Kariba by road you go to Karoi then Magunje and from Magunje to Mola, is a dirty dust road. You will need almost six hours to reach there. Recently, during the rainy season, the road was damaged but fortunately, it was repaired.
There is a long term solution which is under discussion. I think the Minister of Local Government can give further details in that regard. In terms of transport, DDF is sometimes there and sometimes it is not there. If we develop that whole corridor and have boats along Zambezi Road, it will significantly help the people of Siakobvu and Mola. More importantly also, we are resuscitating some projects that were abandoned a long time ago. One of them is developing the Administration Centre for Kariba at Siakobvu. It was abandoned a long time ago. We feel that if we spruce and re-develop that centre, there would not be need in the short term for people from that region to go to Kariba to access services. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Mudzuri for that question. I just want to emphasise that we are developing that corridor, Mola-Siakobvu and also, we are making sure that Siakobvu is open. Most of the people that come there need documentation like IDs and so forth, so if we make sure that our Administration Office is there, that will lessen work. In the short space of time, we are trying to encourage that boat to make sure that it plies regularly. So we are trying to make sure that DDF resuscitates that. I thank you.
+HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Education. What is Government saying pertaining to the education of children? Children were going to school for only three days a week. Recently, they changed to go for a whole week but parents are supposed to pay an extra fee of US$5. Also, what is the problem with Government not paying teachers so that they teach the children? Even though we are paying the US$5, they are only learning for 5 hours. Teachers are saying, for children to learn the whole day parents should pay US$10. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. I will answer the first part of the question and defer the last part on salaries to the relevant Minister who is here. On the first part, schools have made arrangements to comply with COVID-19 regulations. Even though learners may not be attending school for the whole week, they cover material that they are supposed to cover that particular week in order to comply with COVID-19 regulations. So, it is not much per se; the physical attendance, every day five days a week, the matter is whether learners are getting the information that they are supposed to get for that duration of time in order to satisfy the requirements of the syllabus and ensure that they comply with COVID-19 regulations.
I am not sure that there is a direct linkage to COVID -19 regulations and the practice then of charging an extra money, which as Government we do not allow for learners to learn extra hours. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Thank you Mr. President. On the issue of teachers’ salaries, I think negotiations are underway. When we talk about salaries, we include Ministry of Finance and also our Ministry, as well as workers themselves. Negotiations are underway and I hope they will strike a balance. Right now, I cannot give a correct position on whether we are going to come up with a real figure and when but I can only comment that negotiations are in progress. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President, my supplementary to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is that the Minister should help us by listening to the truth that we are telling him. We are the ones coming from the rural areas and we are the ones who have children who are borders and learning in towns. Children in the rural areas are going to school twice a week, yet their counterparts in the urban areas are going to school daily and are also able to access internet and their parents can afford to pay for extra lessons, yet when they sit for examinations, the examination paper will be the same. Taking into cognizance that children were greatly affected by lockdowns due to COVID-19; you should help us Minister so that our children receive the same education throughout the country.
* HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Senator Chief. If that is what is taking place, it is not right and it is not Government policy. What I want to encourage is that the Government allows each and every school to come up with a school development association. We must use this platform to report the school to the relevant authorities. If the teachers who are doing this are known and the parents are just looking at these teachers, the Government cannot act without proof. They must sit down and ask the teachers why they are doing it. If there is no satisfactory answer, they must then take their case further.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is your point of order?
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: My point of order is that the Minister is not helping in his answer. He is just telling us to consult and go to associations when he is representing Government. Government has a policy that must be followed everywhere in the country. So we are asking that this request is coming from Senators, it must go to Cabinet and they must make sure that this is processed so that the correct position is taken as per Government policy.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President, I think I have answered. The Government policy is that it does not condone such practices. In order to deal with such practices, there must be a report to indicate that this particular school is behaving in a manner that is not consistent with Government policy and the reason why I said let us have our SDC engaging the school authorities is to get a speedy solution to it. I never run away from the question. Initially when it was asked, I thought that the reason why learners are going 3 days is because there is need to comply with COVID-19 regulations. Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema said it has nothing to do with COVID-19 regulations and I admitted and I said if that is the case, what is happening is against Government policy of which the Government policy is that learners must learn. The immediate solution is to mobilise our SDCs to engage the school authorities. When that fails, then there is need for the Ministry or Government at large to ensure that they enforce that provision. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 66.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Mr. President, I move that time for Question Without Notice be extended by 15 minutes. We have burning questions to ask the Minister here present, I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. What is Government policy concerning chiefs and village heads who are recognised in the Constitution when it comes to arbitration? If they do so, if the defended is not happy, he will go straight to the Magistrate Court and we find a chief is being given summons and asked to stand in the same court with the same person that he would have given judgment to. What is your policy?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. The Chief’s question was asked in Mt Darwin when we were opening a new court. The senior magistrate said that they were going to look into it so that it will not happen. So it is an issue which is under our purview. We are going to take the necessary steps.
*HON. SEN. MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Leader of the House because it is about the education sector. What is painful is that everyone is doing what they want in the education system. In the rural areas, we got an average of 12% pass rate for Grade 7. This means those children are represented by most of us here. This war between the Government and its workers is affecting our children. We want to know Government’s plan so that what is happening may come to an end because this is affecting the future generation. Parents are paying double – you pay the school fees and the private teacher and that is the normal thing. Parents see that it is better for parents to pay double. We want to know what the Government is saying by stopping individualism so that we go back to the map when it comes to education.
THE MNISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Sen. for your question. Mr. President, the question is not different from what I have responded to before. As Government policy, we have our wishes that our children should learn and pass and the teachers are there. Some schools are there and some schools are being built. My biggest plea is that for our children’s education, we should all be involved in their education. That is why the Government has allowed that at each and every school, there should be an SDC Committee which works hand in hand with the administration of schools so that they look at challenges in the community. That SDC Committee which works hand in hand with the teachers has powers to approach the Ministry of Education articulating the challenges that they are facing in their schools. That is the answer that I gave. For now, I cannot give any other response that we can approach these teachers and take the law into our hands because we want to leave it to the rightful people which are the Ministry of Education.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and in his absence I will direct the question to the Minister of Justice. What is Government policy with regards to the auction system that they talk about? When they talk about the auction system, we understand it has dropped from the top going down and they say it is moving very well, which is not what is transpiring on the ground. The percentages that are prevailing in the economy are no longer good. What is Government policy with regards to auction system? They are busy telling us that it is working and yet it is not working in reality.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Did you understand that Hon. Ziyambi? Repeat your question because it is not clear at all.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I am saying the auction system says the exchange rate is at USD1 is equal to Z$84.00.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I would like to thank the Hon. Sen. I also thought he was going to explain why or how USD1 to Z$84 exchange rate is not working so that I can understand because in our information, we are saying when people apply for the auction system, the banks write to them and tell them how much they have been allocated so that after funding, they get their acquittals. I wanted to understand where it is failing so that we can really rectify.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. Maybe it is because of my minimal education. Our understanding is that when the auction rate is at Z$84, it would apply everywhere and that was meant to stop the black market rate. When we go right now into the shops, the exchange rate is now ZS120 or more than Z$84. The exchange rate prevailing in the economy is more than the auction system exchange rate.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFFAIRS (HON., ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President. The auction system is working very well – what he is talking about is that we have an auction system rate and the parallel system rate. The shops for retailers or traders are supposed to use the rate that will be prevailing at the auction system, but experts in finance who talk about transition from multi-currency to one currency – they say if you look for money from the parallel market, it will not be equal. What is supposed to happen is that there must be stability. If you look at what is prevailing in the market now is that the rate is no longer going up like what was happening before. That is what the Ministry of Finance and the experts are working on so that we do not have a lot of distortions. In order for that not to happen, we encourage that people should use the formal system. I am glad that it is working but at some point we will eventually get to where we want to get to where we get a stable exchange rate both in the formal and informal. If you look at the inflation rate, it shows that it is going down. Thank you.
Questions without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
NATIONAL DISABILITY POLICY
- HON. SEN. TONGOGARA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House when the National Disability Policy to alleviate the plight of people living with disability will be enacted into law.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): The National Disability Policy was adopted by Cabinet on 9 February, 2021 and the plan is to officially launch the policy before the end of June, 2021. The National Disability Policy outlines the goals that the Government hopes to achieve with regards to disability inclusion and the methods and principles that it will use to achieve such goals. The aim is to enhance the well-being of persons with disabilities in both rural and urban areas and in all the 10 provinces of Zimbabwe thereby alleviating their plight.
In addition to the National Disability Policy, the Persons with Disabilities Bill have been drafted and was briefly considered by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation in March, 2021. The Bill is currently being revised through a peer review process by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs (Attorney General’s Office). The plan is to resubmit the Persons with Disabilities Bill before the end of June, 2021 for further consideration by the Cabinet Committee on Legislation.
The National Disability Policy has been aligned to the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 20) Act, 2013 and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, (UNCRPD) (2006), which Zimbabwe ratified in September, 2013. The Persons with Disabilities Bill is also expected to domesticate and be aligned to the same instruments.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE), the Senate adjourned at Nine Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday 8th June, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 19th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have got a list of Hon.
Ministers and Deputy Ministers who sought leave of absence:
Hon. Vice President C. G. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care;
Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Defence and War Veterans
Affairs;
Hon. F. M. Shava, Foreign Affairs and International Trade;
Hon. M. Mutsvangwa, Information, Publicity and Broadcasting
Services;
Hon. S. Nzenza, Industry and Commerce;
Hon. C. Mathema, Primary and Secondary Education;
Hon. Murwira, Higher and Tertiary Education;
Hon. J. M. Gumbo, Minister of State for Presidential Affairs in
Charge of Implementation and Monitoring;
Hon. J. Moyo, Local Government and Public Works;
Hon. J Mangawiro, Deputy Minister of Health and Child Care; and
Hon. D. Musabayana, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and
International Trade.
HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of clarification Madam Speaker. I have heard the list of Hon. Ministers that have given their apologies. Some of these Ministers have not been coming to Parliament even the previous Wednesdays. We have not seen some of them for quite a long time. Madam Speaker, with the advent of technology, the fact that we are now able to use zoom – I am speaking to you on zoom. Does that mean that these Ministers, even if they cannot come physically in the House, they are unable to connect via zoom? Are they so busy that they cannot, while are they doing whatever they are dong, be connected to zoom in their offices? This creates a problem Madam Speakers, to then continuously, for four weeks or so, fail to get a
Minister of a particular Ministry.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mushoriwa.
I consulted with the Clerk. It is possible for ministers to answer questions on Zoom but the fact that they have given an apology, it means they will be committed somewhere and cannot be with us.
HON. GONESE: I have heard the explanation but my point of clarification is with regards to the fact a person may be unable to attend physically, for example if someone is in Bulawayo, Mutare and so on. In this regard, I would suggest that it only takes two to three hours for question time. Whilst someone may not be able to travel wherever they are, I would request that it should be possible for the Hon. Ministers who are unable to attend physically to avail themselves for those two or three hours even from outside the country. That is why we have got this technology which is actually working because a lot of the back benchers are actually attending Parliament session even from outside Harare because where there is connectivity, one can actually attend. I will ask why it is not possible for the Hon. Ministers to do likewise so that even
if they maybe out of Harare, they may have sufficient time for those two to three hours where question time is provided for in terms of our Constitution, Section 107 and it is actually a must attend so that they can make those adjustments.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will convey the message to
them. If they can, they will connect and be able to answer the questions.
HON. NDEBELE: Good afternoon Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon Hon.
Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: I do not intend to tie this request to the perennial absence of ministers in this House but I have reason ostensibly to make a request. I remember in the previous Parliament, we requested that the then President comes to this House if it would please him; just to spend an hour fielding questions from Members of Parliament. I realise this is the Second Republic and I am raising that request again – if we could kindly request the Head of State, if it pleases him, to come to this
House to spend an afternoon fielding questions from Members of
Parliament now that ministers are too busy to attend to us. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sure the Leader of
Government Business has taken note of that and he will convey the message to the President.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Speaker himself is on record saying that he will ensure that he takes appropriate measures to the ministers who do not attend Parliament. I am sure the Clerk would agree to that. He would write letters but he also indicated that appropriate action must be taken. I think this issue is beyond us Members of Parliament now. I think the onus lies with the Speaker and yourself to take decisive action once and for all because we are really tired. It has become a song and the authority that Parliament must have is sub judice and the authority that Parliament must have at all is not there. What more can we do if you have a father and mother and you constantly tell them there is a problem and they keep quiet - we also pull back but this institution can only be respected when the Speaker and yourself take real action. It is my call that you remind the Speaker that he said he would ensure that it happens.
Members of Parliament appear before the Privileges Committee for anything that they do – even some of us when there were accusations of bribe with Goddard, there is the Privileges Committee but those who have a task for the country never come to this Parliament. In a way, it is an insult to this institution, the leader of the institution, yourself and
Zimbabweans at large. So really, may you and the Speaker sit down and take action – hold them in contempt. I used to be energised about bringing this issue up but I have really got retired. You try and point that this Minister is contempt for not coming – Parliament administration will come up with an answer and say no, they apologised after Parliament. We then came up with rules that, what is the cut off time? The Speaker said 12 o’clock. Right now, the members of Cabinet who are not here, Deputy Ministers; 12 o’clock has gone and when
Parliament ends, another rule comes up. They send their apologies late. There is inconsistency in terms of decision making and appropriate action by the leadership. I would like you to convey that to the Speaker, that we are getting disillusioned and they are no longer serious in their discharge of duties when the country is faced with numerous problems and at the end of the day, the Leader of Government business who is equally here must be able to tell the President on what is happening and so forth. My call once again, may you and the Speaker ensure that this institution is respected by coming up with a serious decision which is constant and consistent with how Parliament must be run.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
(v)HON. MASENDA: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. Is there a pricing policy on the prices paid for tobacco sold at the auction floors particularly the top price which has remained stagnant at US$4.99/kg for the last two decades whilst the prices of inputs and labour are Increasing?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I did not get the
first part of the question but I got that the Hon. Member’s question pertains to the pricing of tobacco. My response is that the price of tobacco is not controlled by government. It is controlled by market forces, hence government does not set a minimum price for tobacco. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker for
giving me this opportunity as you had promised yesterday. It is not many people that keep their word nowadays, and I must thank you for that. Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs on the statement which he made after the High Court ruling in the Malaba matter. When the matter was still going to approach superior courts as it has done, was it not subjudice, and as the Minister of Justice, would it not be proper for him to do good for the country and step down so that the justice prudence which is expected in this country is maintained?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mliswa is that a question
or you are suggesting something else. Please ask your question.
HON. T. MLISWA: The question is the statement made by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs after the High Court ruling on the Malaba case was totally unacceptable in terms of the justice delivery system, and as such, what does he intend to do to instil justice in the system when that statement has totally destroyed the trust and the confidence of this country in the justice delivery system as the father of justice? I know the Minister might want to say the matter is subjudice, but it is not the matter or application before the courts but his statement which is not before the courts, in case he wants to come round that one.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam Speaker. There are those that wrote a letter indicating that they want that statement to be subjected to interrogation by the High Court. So it is subjudice.
HON. T. MLISWA: The issue the Minister is talking about that there are those who want to write for the matter to go before the courts is not the same as the matter before the courts. When I say I want to hit you and I do not hit you, it does not mean I hit you. The matter is not before the courts. Can he respond because the intention to write and to take it to court is different from the matter before the courts. I do not have to teach him law. I am not a lawyer. The matter is not before the courts. Can he respond to his statement. When the matter is before the courts then it is subjudice. I am glad he said subjudice – hopefully next time he will not comment on other High Court judgements or any court judgements that come. The matter is not before the courts. The intention is to take it to the court but it is not there, so how does it become subjudice?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I respect my brother Hon. Temba Mliswa but he does not work in my office nor does he stay at my house to know that it is not in court. I would not come here and say something that is false. I have papers that were sent to the High Court with the same complaint about the statement and his insinuation is totally wrong. So I will not comment on it because they have started the process and I await direction from the court. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am glad and I must be professional enough to say if the matter is indeed before the courts, then I withdraw my question. He had said they intend to bring it to the courts so I withdraw.
I am professional enough to follow the dictates of the law that if the matter is before the courts, I withdraw my question. May we allow the process to take over. I think I should be appointed the Minister of
Justice next time. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. What measures has the government put in place in terms of social protection on the informal sector since it is one of the key issues in the National Development
Strategy NDS1? I thank you
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you for the question
from the Hon. Member. The question is talking about social protection whilst at the same time talking about SMEs. I need some clarity as to whether we are talking about social protection or we are talking about funding for SMEs.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I have been asked to repeat the question.
What measures has government put in place in terms of social protection on the informal sector since it is one of the key issues in the NDS1? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANACE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. NCUBE): I thank the Hon. Member for the
question regarding social protection for those who are in the informal sectors. The informal sector cuts across various sectors. Some sell wares on the streets. Some are in farming and all manner of things. Let me try to map out the nature of the social protection that is in place. Let me start with those who maybe in farming or wish to go into farming.
The entire Pfumvudza Presidential Input Scheme Programme is a form of social protection. That is what we refer to as productive social protection where you give those who are vulnerable inputs or productive assets for them to be productive and look after themselves in farming. That is probably our largest social protection programme for the vulnerable in our country. Last year as you will recall, we spent well over $6bn on that programme alone. It has been very successful. We expect those farmers this season as we are harvesting to produce almost a million metric tonnes of maize and we are proceeding with that programme to target winter wheat programme as well. That is the first one on productive social protection programmes.
I will come to the unconditional cash transfer programmes. As you know, we have introduced in the urban and rural areas where we transfer $1500 that we are paying per month and we urge everyone who is vulnerable, whether in the informal sector or not doing anything and they are vulnerable and they feel they ought to be protected by
Government, to come forward and register with the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare so that they can be supported. We intend to continue with that programme. There are some in the informal sector who are just food vulnerable and those should have been targeted during the time when we were running a robust food support deficit mitigation programme which of course we will slow down because we have such a wonderful bumper harvest but we will stand ready as
Government to support those who are vulnerable.
Those who are in the informal sector but are elderly or disadvantaged, they also have access to medical aid but also the children of those who are unemployed and vulnerable , their school fees is covered by the BEAM Programme which we have expanded. You can see that our social protection programme is quite robust and always stand ready to support citizens who are vulnerable. There is not more that I have not said but it is quite clear that the intention is one of supporting them through and through so that we leave no one behind and we leave no place behind. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: My supplementary question is on the issue of Pfumvudza Programme and yields. The Minister of Agriculture said the country has about 2.2 to 2.4 million tonnes of maize coming in. The farmers will benefit from this provided they get paid. Can the Minister guarantee that the payment will be done in 5 days as stated by the Minister and secondly on the social responsibility side, can he also guarantee that the money is in place to buy the whole crop that has been produced this year?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon Markham for giving me
the opportunity to explain our grain procurement programme that we have put in place. This is the price of success, when we have been so successful in our agricultural programme; now we have to worry about to buying those crops. We have set up a Grain Procurement Committee which comprises Treasury, Ministry of Agriculture and a Technical
Committee. We have given that role to be co-chaired by my deputy Hon Chiduwa and also the Deputy Minister of Agriculture Hon Haritatos. We have also included in the Grain Purchase Committee, the private sector, the millers, bankers and oil expressers because it cuts across different crops. We meet every week on a Monday at 9am without fail. If we fail, we move it to another day during that week but we try to meet every week. We are very organised about this.
The grain purchase programme has started and there are two sources of resources. One is Treasury resources in the normal way that we support GMB to purchase this grain and the money circulates like that. So far we have outlaid just over $2bn and it is going on well. The deliveries are going on well and we want to stay within the short and prescribed period in terms of payment. There is also another leg which is the private sector itself through this coordination committee that we have set up. They are able to then buy from GMB extending their resources through a prepayment arrangement for the grain. We have tried hard to make sure that GMB remains the sole buyer so as to avoid side marketing. Most of these farmers, especially those who have come through the commercial old Command Agriculture Programme, have loans with banks. So we want to make sure that they pay back their loans and the debt collection structure is set up around GMB. That is why GMB is being used as the conduits for purchases.
We have a structure in place and I can assure you that we are on our way to make sure that we can support the farmers paying on time. In the banking sector alone, in terms of private resources, we have liquidity of up to $60bn. Already we have supported AMA to the tune of $20bn within that kind of arrangement and then there is Treasury resources. We have adequate resources to see this through and make sure that everyone benefits from this bumper harvest of this year.
HON. T. MOYO: My supplementary question to the Hon Minister is that, what protection is given to farmers who are located far away from GMB? In rural areas, we have farmers who are farming 40 to 50 km away from GMB and those are being affected by agents who are doing side marketing. It is sad that some farmers are losing their grain for as little as US$2 per 20kg. What measures are being put in place by Government to make sure that those farmers are adequately protected? I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I urge all farmers not to sell their produce to makoronyera. Makoronyera vakawanda uye vakachenjera. They will offer you all manner of sweeteners and so forth and then they fleece you of the good returns that you have rightfully earned. Losing
US$2 is quite a lot. I really urge them not to be cheated by makoronyera. We will do a better job ourselves as Government to make sure that the farmers can access the depot points to deposit their grain and support them with transportation. We will work together with the Ministry of Agriculture to do this. At the end of the day, I think the best policeman or woman for a farmer when it is their produce that is at stake, it is for them to just refuse, that is policing enough and say no we will sell through the official structures/channels and it is up to us to really support them and make sure that they can deliver to GMB successfully and subsidise the cost of transportation.
I think the price is not bad – for maize, we are paying the same price as of last year, which is around $32 000.00 per metric tonne. It is a very good price in USD$ terms because we have kept the Zimbabwe dollar stable. So it is retaining value and there is value in it. So we think we are offering a good price and people should really shy away from makoronyera because they are very crafty at this game.
HON. T. MLISWA: My supplementary question is; Hon. Minister, you spoke about this finance structure with many players, i.e. maize and soya but did not talk about tobacco. Already, tobacco farmers are complaining of late disbursement of funds. They sell their tobacco today and their money comes out after two weeks. I heard on the State media that they were camping for two weeks to wait for their money and these are women who have responsibilities at home. You know that when a woman is away from home, there is havoc. Musha mukadzi, kana pasina mukadzi hapana musha. So why would we then say we are disbursing money? I did not hear you talking about tobacco players in that matrix in terms of disbursement of money. Can you tell us whether the tobacco players are involved in that structure and if not, can you please involve them so that they get their money early especially women farmers. Thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I really thank Hon. Themba Mliswa
for that intervention, query and question in seeking clarification. You know tobacco farmers are some of our special farmers especially the small scale farmers and the women farmers that you referred to. They not only just produce tobacco, create jobs, income for themselves and feed their families but they also earn us foreign currency. So they play that extra role and are a special group of farmers in a way, if you can indulge me to use that word ‘special’.
In the payment process, I am also quite unhappy that payments are taking as long as two weeks as he indicated. It was brought to my attention and we are dealing with it. In terms of the payment process, frankly the truth is, we had not included tobacco farmers. Those are the facts because tobacco farmers, we always deal with them through another structure that is led by the Central Bank due to the foreign currency element. We really need the Central Bank. So I will engage the Central Bank to make sure that they work together with Treasury to resolve this delay in payment but also try to get to the bottom of it - is it the banks that are delaying, is it us the authorities; what is really going on? We will look into that to solve the problem but then just make it more efficient.
I also hasten to add that in terms of their foreign currency retention this year, it has improved to 60% and I think that is good progress. We have also said that for all exporters, their retention ratio is a lot more favourable with the order of 80% for those who are performing above a certain threshold. I am only on the tobacco issue Hon. Mliswa and in fact, I have not yet visited the tobacco floors this year because I have been occupied with other things that I am fine tuning but I can assure you that in the next two weeks, I am going to visit tobacco floors. You mentioned one issue but there may be more, so it is important for me to be hands-on, visit them and understand the issues and try to deal with them comprehensively. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, let me thank the Hon. Minister for coming up with a somewhat robust safety net to take care of the vulnerable. It would be unfortunate for us to ask the easy questions but there is a difficult side Madam Speaker, the weaponisation of food aid. I want to kindly request the Hon. Minister to appraise this House on what Government has done to ensure that there is no discrimination in the distribution of grain for instance.
I am asking this question on the background of information coming from Lupane’s Ward 10, that weaponisation of social aid is still ongoing. We have come to hate each other so much and look up to Government to provide safety nets to those who are discriminated. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: But that is a new question
Hon. Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: No, it is still riding on the back of safety nets. He has provided good programmes but down there, what waterproof measures has he handed out because the people are named elderly people? I am sure they exist. I have all reason to believe that the media has no reason to mislead the nation.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That question was supposed
to be directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.
HON. NDEBELE: May you as well allow me to redirect it
Madam Speaker?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Ndebele kula bantu abancitshwa ukudla? Baphi? Let me revert to the official channel but I will need to ask him one or two things first.
Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am and I thank Hon. Ndebele for the intervention and question. He referred to the issues where he thinks he perceives some kind of weaponisation of food aid. I doubt this because think about it, if you are trying to win over voters whom you believe do not support you, would it not make sense to actually give them food? I am just trying to understand the logic of weaponisation and I am thinking that it is most improbable.
This is a very fair process. In fact, we would like to see more people coming forward to register to receive social welfare. We believe that no one should be left behind and no place should be left behind. He mentioned Lupane as an area that I know - Ward 10. I will also sniff around using my own system to try to verify what he is saying but just thinking about logically, it would not make sense to have something like that in that place. We are not as a Government practicing that kind of approach. Everyone who is vulnerable has equitable access to assistance. We owe it to them as Government and will not do that, whether looking at food or cash transfers. There is equitable access regardless of who you are but we will sniff around in the area that he mentioned. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I was overjoyed by what the Hon. Minister said concerning money that was set aside to buy grains that were harvested by farmers this year including maize and tobacco. My question pertains to cotton. How much money did Government set aside towards buying cotton? As I speak, cotton is already on its way to the depots. How much has been set aside for the payment of cotton farmers who have already delivered cotton to the depots? Is the money already available? We are aware that last year cotton farmers did not get their money. Thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I want to thank the Hon. Member for
asking that pertinent question. Last year, it is true that cotton farmers are still owed money which amounts to $1,5 billion. It has been brought to my attention and what we have decided to do to make it easy for payment to be made is to request the specific names of the farmers and Government or the system that is supposed to pay can then pay directly to the farmers so that we avoid any inefficiency. So the coming season agai, we have set aside adequate resources to pay the farmers. What the challenge really was just the payment system for the farmers. I think the price is at over a dollar for cotton this year which is a very good price, and I think farmers will be well supported. We are aware of the backlog in payment and we are dealing with it. We have requested the specific names of the farmers so that we can pay directly so that we can avoid the inefficient system that got us where we are. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: The Hon. Minister has alluded to the price of cotton being a dollar something this season. Would he also want to attach the same amount to the amounts owed to the farmers so that they are able to go back into the land and make sure they produce? My point is the quantum that they are owed in terms of the deliveries to COTCO, versus the amount for this season. Would he prayerfully allow the cotton farmers of last season who had not been paid to also benefit from the price this season of a dollar something that he has alluded?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: That will be difficult. Look, there is a specific price that was declared last year to the farmer. The issue is really one of delayed payment for various reasons and we are correcting that now. So to restart applying this price in retrospect will create a lot of difficulties, first of all with the budget outlay that we have set aside, we would not have enough resources but then it will also set a bad precedence in terms of how we apply prices across years and yet a specific price applies to a specific season. It will create challenges for us; but I can understand he is speaking from the heart and he is trying to look after the farmers as a Member of Parliament, but finance-wise it will create difficulties for us. We just do not have the resource envelope but also we will set a bad precedent.
HON. NYAMUDEZA: My point of clarity is that we saw farmers being paid through barter trade last season. So this year you said the price is one dollar something. Are they going to get cash on delivery?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Yes, they will get cash. Thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: My question to the Minister of Finance is
what the Ministry’s policy with regards to guaranteeing private borrowings both from limited companies and people. I ask the question in view of three gazetted issues; one for Lucks Flower Roses where Government has guaranteed part of their debt, same with a boutique hotel in Victoria Fall, a very small amount but we are guaranteeing it and thirdly, sub-Sahara Tobacco. My question is why are we guaranteeing private companies and how are these people selected and is it a Government policy?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I thank Hon.
Markham for the question and in fact, I am glad he noticed that we guaranteed some companies, guaranteeing their loans with specific banks. This is the implementation of the $18 billion COVID-19 response package that we put in place to support companies to come out of the COVID situation. Our approach within that programme is to provide guarantees so that we work together with banks to actually provide the loans, we as Government provide the guarantee and it is never 100%. We provide 50%. So the bank is not covered for the other half as we cover 50% and this has worked well in terms of these companies and we will be doing more going forward. The advantage of that is we do not have to outlay resources as Government, but we are able to leverage, unlock resources from the banks to support the private sector because without the guarantees, the banks would not do it and then we are stuck as an economy. We are trying to move forward and this is part of the $18 billion rescue package.
How are the companies selected? First of all, the entrepreneurs come forward and request. They go through their banks and the banks having processed the requirement for funding of the projects, if they think that it is a viable project, they will approve it. The bank and the project promoter then approach their Ministry and Treasury simultaneously. There is a Committee in Treasury, Debt Management Committee that looks through this and analyses. Some of them have been rejected by the way, and some have been accepted. So, what we mentioned is what we have accepted. They are processed, they go through various stages of signatories all the way up from the committee up to myself. I eventually sign off as the head of the Ministry after the Permanent Secretary has signed it and then we let the borrower know that they have been successful or rather their bank will tell them. After that we then gazette it.
The gazzetting process is something that Parliament has always looked forward to, to say ‘Minister, gazette the loans that you are contracting for the country and also guarantees to whomsoever, gazette those’. So, we have started gazetting those and that is a very good practice and a good practice in terms of transparency. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, could the Minister just clarify that we are assured that somebody’s companies are not over borrowing to the extent that needs a Government guarantee on the debt because they are waiting for the exchange rate to move. Are they not feeding the parallel market? I thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you. These companies go
through a rigorous credit analysis process within the banks in the first place. They are clients of the bank that is in question. They would have been scrutinised, their financials would have been analysed and they would have been found to have been credit worthy and worthy of a loan from the bank.
However, for one reason or another, the bank would have felt that they need to enhance the credit standing of this specific account or borrower then they approach Treasury under the umbrella of the 18 billion dollar rescue package. We also do further analysis. These companies are analysed twice by the banks and by the Treasury, it is very rigorous. Chances of them doing shenanigans, parallel markets and so forth are very unlikely. Banks follow up on the usage of their loans; they do not just disburse and then do what we call ‘fire and forget’, no! They follow through with these loans to make sure that these are properly used and I doubt that the shenanigans that Hon. Markham referred to will then occur. Certainly, they are systems in place to minimise that kind of illicit action.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Maam. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is in respect of transparency. If the Hon. Minister can clarify what steps are being taken to ensure that the generality of Zimbabweans who have various enterprises are made aware of the provisions that the Government can guarantee loans in circumstances where, if they did not have such guarantees, they will not be able to obtain the loans in question?
In respect of oversight, what measures are being put in place that this august institution, perhaps through the relevant portfolio committees on Budget and Finance can have some of the oversight in respect of the criteria being used to alert the beneficiaries to ensure that they have that transparency to show that this is above board and it is being done in a manner which is beneficial to those who are deserving this kind of support.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank Hon. Gonese for that follow up question. On the issue of publicity; I think I read that, it really needs questioning that maybe this is not well publicised. So, we should do more publicity. I take that point that we do more publicity. The publicity that we had carried out was to announce the package in the first place and the guarantee scheme but also the line ministries for instance, if you look at someone that we supported, of course, there are some who we supported on the tourism sector, and they are in touch with their line Ministry of Tourism. So, some of the clients come through their line ministries, some come directly through the banks. So we have had those channels of communication. However, I am hearing that perhaps we should publicise more and we will do so. I take your suggestion.
On the issue of oversight, there is completeness here because we are spending within our budget limits – we are living within our means. There is no risk of us overshooting on the budget performance and I stand willing to keep the Committee of Budget and Finance appraised and updated on how we are doing on this. I stand ready to even give a Ministerial Statement where it is necessary, so there is complete transparency and oversight. I can tell you that under my watch, there is no risk of over expenditure on budget, I only run balanced budget. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Has the Government not got a deliberate
policy to fund indigenous people after the protracted liberation struggle where they were oppressed by the Smith Regime and identify indigenous companies who want to grow their business so that there can be an economic balance after the oppression of the Smith Regime? Have you not also accommodated white companies in the new Zimbabwe unlike the time of Rhodesia when it was the white companies who benefited? Thank you.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Mliswa is right. We do have an empowerment policy which has been re-launched and refreshed - that exists. Through this policy, Government has been supporting indigenous business companies but also they have been creating special financial institutions to further sharpen that empowerment agenda. All they are looking at is the Women’s Bank or the Youths Bank and now we have the National Venture Fund. All those are pockets of resources that are meant to sharpen the empowerment agenda.
I think where we could do better is in the area of procurement where again we would want certain groups and SME’s to be supported by Government in the procurement process. Once someone has got a contract as an SME, it is easier for them to source them funding because they now have an order. The bank can discount the value of that order and give them a loan. So, our procurement processes need to speak to that empowerment as well. I think that is an area that we could improve but he is right that we have been targeting certain disadvantaged groups to make sure that they are supported as we grow our economy to make sure that no one is left behind. I thank you.
HON. MUTODI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question goes to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What sort of criteria is Government using in allocating State land for urban expansion, particularly for residential land use? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. CHOMBO): On the
applications that are made for State lands, there is no set criteria per se but if a person applies, it goes through the screening process and if he or she qualifies, that is when he or she is awarded.
HON. DR. MUTODI: I asked this question because in the past we have heard ministers occupying that office ending up with 300 or 400 houses and this ended up pointing to a situation that there is endemic and individual corruption in the allocation of land for residential land use. Can the Minister bring a Ministerial Statement to this Parliament on people or companies that have been allocated land for residential land use? Since she has said there is no criteria as such, we would also need to be furnished with a list of those that have been allocated State land for urban expansion.
HON. CHOMBO: My Ministry is going across through the local authorities building up a land bank so that we know the State land that has been used and what is available. We are doing a data base of who we have leased out the State land to. As per your request, we will prepare a Ministerial Statement and present it to Parliament.
HON. T. MLISWA: This is a very important question on State land. There is the Uchena Report which clearly did an investigation on State land. This report has not been brought to Parliament by the
Minister to deliberate on it. Not only that, the Joshua Nkomo Aspindale
49 A and B land which was given to the people by the First Republic, the Second Republic is now going to repossess that land from them yet offer letters were given out by the First Republic. Is the Minister of
State for any province responsible for State land or it is the Minister of
Local Government because for example, Hon. Chidawu was in Kambuzuma telling people that this land belonged to Billy Rautenbach and Swane who are whites yet Government had taken this land as State land and given it to the people through the housing cooperatives which are well constituted and well regularised. Why is Government going back taking State land from people again when it has issued that state land and the Provincial Minister of State being in the forefront of that? Is he the custodian of Sate land, especially Hon. Chidawu who is now taking away land from the people and people are dying because of heart aches and blood pressure as a result of this Second Republic taking land which was allocated to them by the First Republic which remains the same Government? Is it Government policy to repossess State land from people who benefited from the First Republic?
HON. CHOMBO: You brought up a lot of follow up questions – you brought up the issue of the Uchena Report which was as a result of a Commission set up by the President. My Ministry does not have the mandate to release that report. My Ministry is studying that report and we are analysing the cases that should be forwarded to ZRP, those that should go to ZACC and those that we have to handle internally. Definitely, we have been doing that and I think you have seen some arrests emanating from that Uchena Report.
The Billy Rautenbach issue is too specific – you should bring it to my office and I will go through it. It is not my Ministry’s policy to repossess State land that was allocated in the previous republic.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order. My point of order relates to the response by the Hon. Minister. I am really grateful and appreciative of her undertaking to give this House a Ministerial Statement. Is the Minister in a position to give us a timeframe as to when we may expect that Ministerial Statement in view of the importance of the issue which is under debate on this question?
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, may Members of
Parliament (MPs) desist from following ministers as if they are bodyguards. Hon. Minister Kazembe went outside and two MPs followed him. Is it their business of escorting ministers outside this Parliament? May you put order to that please Madam Speaker. We cannot have this continue in this House. Ministers have got offices where MPs can go and see them. Your office is here.
HON. CHOMBO: May I please have time when I can respond to give the timeframe. I will be able to give the timeframe tomorrow.
HON. MARKHAM: I just want to allude to the last question asked by Hon. Mliswa. Can the Minister press for the release of the Justice Uchena Report because it is all in there – whether it is Aspindale or any other. The reason is because this has been going on for ten or twenty years. The issue is that there are people on the ground who are still paying rentals or paying for their stands. They have no title, no ownership and do not know who owns the lands. Today...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask your question Hon.
Markham.
HON. MARKHAM: Can the Justice Uchena Report be released as a matter of urgency because people are spending US$30-50 a month paying off a stand that they do not know whether they will ever own.
HON. CHOMBO: As I said before, the Uchena Report did not emanate from my Ministry but from the President’s office. I am not in a position to be able to say I can release it or not.
HON. T. MLISWA: The Hon. Deputy Minister did allude to the fact that they were studying it and they were starting to arrest people. Already, Parliament has oversight and we are asking for our role of oversight. You cannot start arresting people before we exercise our role of oversight and before the report is tabled in Parliament. This is not the first time that Hon. Markham has asked for reports. We now believe that the Minister is involved in the corrupt dealings of some of these land issues because there are many reports which have been asked to come before this Parliament to be tabled and they are not coming. We would want to know what is it that is stopping you from taking this message to the President to say that we need these reports. The Uchena Report was released and the President read, then it goes to the appropriate Ministry which should then bring it here. So, do not bring the President’s name into disrepute by saying it is with the President. He got the report and set up the commission which did its own investigations so it must find itself in Parliament so that we exercise our role of oversight. You cannot be arresting people before you bring the report here. We have an oversight role to play and your Ministry is overwhelmed with these reports, but you do not bring them here and the Minister himself is never here. You are always here but he is always going around giving land but not to answer questions why he is giving
land.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Mliswa for that explosive follow up question. I am going to check who is supposed to release it and as I said it did not emanate from my office, but I was given as a
Ministry which is managing the state land to make sure that I look at issues that address the state land issues. So it is just a part of the Uchena Commission that we are dealing with. When we give the Ministerial statement, I will also give a statement towards that. I thank you.
HON. CHASI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister for Energy and Power Development. Is the Deputy Minister in a position to give assurances to this august House that with winter wheat activity commencing, the farmers can be guaranteed sufficient and uninterrupted power during this period? Whilst she is at it, is she in a position to indicate when we can expect the integrated energy resource plan for the country which has been awaited for a very long time. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): I would like to thank Hon.
Chasi for that very pertinent question, particularly now that we are in the winter cropping season. Yes, I can assure Zimbabweans that as a Ministry, we are going to make sure there is uninterrupted supply of electricity. Although we do have challenges with our aging equipment at Hwange, we have stepped up generation at Kariba where we are generating over a thousand megawatts. We are also augmenting our supply through imports from Cabora Bassa, EDM and Eskom of South Africa. Currently, here and there we do have shortfalls of electricity supply but it is insignificant. So be assured that we are going to meet the supply of electricity during this winter cropping season. Whatever challenges that we are coming across during our operations at our power generation stations, we are working flat out to ensure that all the units are back to service.
For your information, we are for this week, we have got four units that are operational. Once in a while we drop to two or three, but we have always had enough electricity to service the nation during this critical moment. Coming to the second question on the resource plan being worked out, I cannot give a date at the moment but let me assure the House that I will go back and be very sure of the stage where we are but it is being worked out. I will then bring the information to the House with the particular date.
HON. NDUNA: My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of
Transport and Infrastructure Development. It relates to the 821km Mutare/Plumtree highway. As it relates to the completion of the project, maintenance if it has been completed and the payment of the project from the US$206 million from DBSA of South Africa? How much have we used and how much is left?
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, it is not my intention to belittle Hon. Nduna but I want you to make a determination because this will come back to haunt maybe as early as next week. Is this question that has just been asked not a specific question. I need a determination from your chair.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are right Hon Ndebele it
is a specific question. I am not sure if the Minister is able to answer it since it needs some investigation. Hon. Minister are you able to answer
it.
HON. NDEBELE: I beg your pardon Madam Speaker. I have risen on a point of order and the rule is the gentleman must sit down.
We should learn not to say rules depends on how the Minister feels like because I will bring questions next week and a specific Minister may not feel like. So, it is always safe for a National Parliament to stick to its own rules. I am speaking from experience. It happened yesterday right here and I had to leave the House out of respect.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Can you also involve us on the virtual.
We cannot even hear what is happening in the House now.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndebele, you are right, it is a specific question and it cannot be answered now. Hon Nduna, please may you go and put your question in writing.
HON. L. SIBANDA: Madam Speaker, you recognised me and
then someone interjected.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I recognised you Hon Sibanda
but we lost you. You did not ask your question because of connectivity problems. I called your name and you did not ask your question.
HON. L. SIBANDA: Can I go ahead now.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Speaker can you also recognise
us.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am following a list which I was given by your Chief Whip. You have to register your name with your Chief Whip – [AN HON MEMBER: We have no Chief Whip.]
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: In terms of the whipping system in Parliament, is it a question that even those that may not necessarily have a Chief Whip are not being given the platform to have their list there?
May you advise us on that one? How does Hon Mliswa get his name on the list if he is not on the list of Chief Whips – [AN HON MEMBER:
You are MDC-Alliance, may you sit down.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sure you are answered
Hon Mushoriwa.
HON. N. MGUNI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Health. When we rolled the COVID vaccines, the second dose was after 28 to 30 days. I want to find out from the Minister what the new policy is as people are now getting the second dose after 14 days? Is it not going to increase the hesitancy syndrome and thwart our efforts of eradicating the pandemic?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MANGWIRO): The vaccines are two, Sinopharm is given a space of 28 days. The second one is Sinovac and is given a space of 14 days. There is nothing new. It remains that each specific vaccine has got it own spaces of time for second jabs. I thank you.
HON. NDIWENI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Health. What measures are being taken at the border post to control the influx of returning residents because as it is, there are bus loads of people that are coming in with COVID certificates and they are not being tested at Beitbridge Border Post? I am afraid we might end up having the South African variant. What measures are being taken to control the influx?
HON. GONESE: In the same vein with the issue raised by Hon Ndebele, it was raised by the Presiding Officers in this august House that those who are on zoom should be on video because we are all supposed to dress like we are physically in the House. I note that Hon Ndiweni is not on video and this was a ruling by the Speaker and yourself. I believe in the same vein that we must have consistency; the Hon Member is out of order because he is not on video. He should be visible so that we are all properly dressed in line with the rules of this august institution that when we come to Parliament for men and women, there is a dress code and we have to ensure that we abide by the dress code.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon Gonese for
reminding me. Hon Ndiweni, may you switch on your video.
HON. NDIWENI: Madam Speaker, thank you very much I am not aware of those standing rules but I am having problems with my gadget.
(v)HON. M. M. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What is the Ministry’s plan to ensure availability of usable vehicles to ensure effective discharge of duties by the ZETDC employees?
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker! I think it is only proper that Hon. Ndiweni who is well educated withdraws his utterances that Hon. Ndebele is drunk. Hon. Ndebele does not even take alcohol, so I only think that it is proper that he does that. He is well schooled and an Englishman par excellence and such language certainly does not go with his social standing. May he withdraw those utterances?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndiweni! Hon. Ndiweni! I think he has switched off – [HON. T. MLISWA: You must ask him to withdraw next time!] – Yes, I will request him to withdraw next time. – [HON. NDEBELE: That is an insult to myself, my family and my church as well!] –
(V)HON. M. M. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Members
please! Ask your question Hon. Mpofu.
(V)HON. M. M. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker, my
question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What is the Ministry’s plan or position to ensure availability of usable vehicles on the effective discharge of duties by the ZETDC employees? Currently, do they have vehicles available to attend to faults? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): I am having challenges with my gadget, I want to unmute. Thank you Madam Speaker but unfortunately, I did not get the question. May the Hon. Member kindly repeat?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mudyiwa, you are not
connected!
HON. MUDYIWA: Yes, I have a challenge with my gadget, something is wrong. It is not unmuting. Thank you Madam Speaker, I was saying that unfortunately I did not get the question from the Hon.
Member. Can the question be repeated please?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mpofu, please may you
repeat your question?
(v)HON. M. M. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. What is the Ministry’s plan or position to ensure availability of usable vehicles for the effective discharge of duties by the ZETDC employees?
Currently, they are relying on private vehicles to attend to faults.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Did you hear the question this time around Hon. Deputy Minister? – [HON. T. MLISWA: It is on plans to ensure that there is adequate transportation for ZETDC to carry out their mandate effectively.] –
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to believe that Hon. Themba Mliswa has helped me enough to respond to the question.
ZETDC is having serious transport challenges. All these are arising from the fact that they are going through serious financial problems. Firstly, our tariffs are very low and need to be reviewed. They were last reviewed I think last year and all the operational costs have gone up, i.e. fuel has gone up and even buying the foreign currency that is needed, ZETDC is failing to do that. We are working flat-out to help ZETDC so that they buy the much needed vehicles but it has to be a concerted effort from all of us.
Those who are using electricity should make sure that they pay their electricity bills well on time, i.e. if you are not all on smart meters where everybody pays for the electricity that he/she is going to use before using it because in the past we have had challenges in collecting debts from our debtors. Those who will have used electricity already, most of them are failing to pay. So that is why ZETDC is having serious problems in acquiring new vehicles for operations. We are looking at reviewing the tariffs and if that review is granted, then ZETDC can have funds to purchase the much needed vehicles for their operations. I thank you.
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Last week I
raised a similar concern about unattendance to faults due to lack of vehicles by ZETDC. A life was lost because of the live cables that are …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gabbuza, please may
you switch on your video?
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Come again?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Switch on your video?
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Madam Speaker, I was saying what recourse does the community have now that they …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I said switch on your video! (v)HON. GABBUZA: Ah okay, the video seems to be failing.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, so you will ask your
question next time.
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Come again?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will pose your question
next time.
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Oh Madam Speaker please!
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Ma’am. My supplementary question to the Hon. Deputy Minister is; she mentioned reviewing tariffs because of bad debts that are uncollected. Why would the Government want to penalise citizens because of a few individuals who are failing to pay for their debts? If ZETDC is incapacitated by the fact that what is owed cannot be collected, why would they then go for the easy targets of honest and innocent citizens and want to review tariffs upwards instead of dealing with those who are failing to pay their debts? I thank you.
HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The debtors who owe huge amounts to ZETDC are mostly local authorities which we cannot switch off to enforce payment, some Government departments and some few domestic users but we cannot increase the tariffs. Look at the operational costs since last year, how much it is has gone up. Fuel has gone up how many times? To get the USD on the auction floor, how many times has it gone up? The tariffs were last reviewed early 2020 and since then, there has not been any review up to now. This is another way to increase our revenue collection for ZETDC. If we can have some people who can pay the new tariffs or if they are approved, the better for ZETDC because it will get an extra dollar for their operations. While we are working on how we can collect our revenue from our usual debtors, being local authorities, we cannot switch off local authorities for humanitarian purposes. We are not penalising those citizens but the operational costs have gone up, economics tells us that everything has gone up since last year.
HON. G. BANDA: My supplementary to the Ministry of Energy
is, I hear the Minister is talking about financial constraints within the ZESA department. ZESA is getting a serious loss in removing copper cables and selling for less value and replacing them with aluminium. I hear the Minister talking about not having enough resources but they are not looking at the leakages when they are removing the copper cables and replacing them with aluminium. There is a serious leakage in terms of collection there. In answering that, I also want to find out why transformers are being sold at a less rate than the going market rates for the copper?
HON. MUDYIWA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The issue of copper cables, ZETDC is on an exercise to replace those copper cables with aluminium cables, the reason being vandalism has is making a toll on ZETDC. All those copper cables are being targeted by the vandals and that is one set back that ZETDC is going through. They are failing to replace the copper cables that have been stolen. It is an exercise that is going on to try and replace those cables with the aluminium cables. I did not get the second part of the question.
HON. G. BANDA: It is about the transformers that are been sold at less than the market value. You find that ZESA is auctioning transformers to local people without licenses at very much lower value to what the people who would have bought them will sell the transformers for. Also, the Minister did not answer my question rightly because I was putting to her on why they are not getting the true value for the copper pipes when they are selling them in replacement with the aluminium ones.
HON. MUDYIWA: Coming to the sale of the transformers, may I ask the Hon. Member if he has got the details. What we know is that ZETDC has a serious shortage of transformers. If they are selling those transformers, I think we need that information, because they desperately need the transformers to replace the vandalised ones throughout the country since they have a serious shortage. I think it is information that we might need to verify if anything like that is going on, where transformers are been sold below the normal price.
On the first question why they are selling the copper cables below the cost of replacing the aluminium cables, I think we need to verify that information again. What we are aware of is that they are removing the copper cables to replace them with aluminium cables to do away with vandalism because the copper cables are being targeted by the vandals. I think we need to go and verify the information as well.
HON. G. BANDA: How are the copper cables being disposed?
HON. MUDYIWA: The copper cables are under the custody of ZESA Holdings and ZETDC. These are operational and administrative matters which at times do not come to our attention unless we get the information about what is going to happen. I want to thank the Hon. Member for giving us that information. We will go and verify on what is actually happening. We will bring the information to this House once we get the details.
HON. GABBUZA: My supplementary about failure to provide transport by ZESA when cables have fallen down, last week and this afternoon a life has been lost because of unattended cables lying on the ground at some school called Malaria. In an event where lives have been lost because ZESA has not attended to lying cables, what recourse does the community have?
HON. MUDYIWA: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for that question and may I pass my deepest condolences concerning the lives that have been lost because of the cable that fall and was left unattended. The issue of failing to attend is because of operational problems that ZETDC is going through, maybe the lack of transport and all sorts of things, but if there is a life lost because ZESA failed to attend in time, we can say that it is negligence on the part of ZETDC and that victim should be compensated if investigations are done. If ZESA is found to be at fault, then action can be taken against ZETDC. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing 64.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of Order! I just want to appreciate the Deputy Ministers, Hon. Chombo and Hon. Mudyiwa for well articulating the questions asked by Hon. Members. You are doing well
– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
DELAY IN TOLLING OF URBAN ROADS AND GOVERNMENT
INVESTMENT IN URBAN MASS TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS
- HON. GEN (RTD) MAYIHLOME asked the Minister of
Transport and infrastructural Development to explain to the House what
is delaying the tolling of urban roads and Government Investment in urban mass transportation.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA):
Government has tried to introduce the tolling of urban roads and the initial attempt faced some hurdles. On the legal side, urban tolling is not included in the existing Tolling Act. My Ministry is currently working on a draft amendment of the Act in order to accommodate the issue.
Urban tolling was also met with public resistance during the initial attempt. Ruwa, Hwange and currently Skyline Tollgate are examples. The first two tollgates have since been moved out of the urban setup while the process for relocation of Skyline Tollgate is in progress.
The Cabinet is looking at reconsidering the process of introducing urban tolling. Consultative processes are to be initiated with stakeholders who include the motoring public.
The programme for investment in urban mass transportation is spearheaded by the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works.
Government is in the process of capacitating ZUPCO and partnering other bus operators to buttress efforts of Government for mass transportation. To that end, Government, through CMED, is procuring buses some of which have been provided to ZUPCO on a hire basis as
part of their participation in the intra-city transportation system. I thank you.
UPGRADING AND SURFACING OF MAWABENI-
ESIBOMVU-MBIZINGWE-BULAWAYO ROAD IN
UMZINGWANE/MATOBO CONSTITUENCY
- HON. GEN (RTD) MAYIHLOME asked the Minister of
Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain to the House when the Mawabeni-Esibomvu-Mbizingwe-Bulawayo Road will be upgraded and surfaced.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, the current status of the Mawabeni-Esibomvu-Mbizingwe-
Bulawayo Road is 10 km of gravel; and 14 km of earth road both of which are in poor state. In the short term, the Esibomvu Road has been included in the ERRP II works scope. In the current phase, the road will have spot re-gravelling, grading, and bush clearing and wash away repairs done.
In the third phase of the programme which is programmed for 2022, the road will have a structure constructed across the Nsezi River which will provide an all weather crossing.
Plans to surface the road are in the long term and the implementation is dependent upon the project priority lists approved by the provincial development coordinator and the funding availed. I thank you.
REHABILITATION OF THE BULAWAYO-VICTORIA FALLS
ROAD
- HON. MOLOKELE asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development when the Bulawayo-Victoria Falls road will be rehabilitated.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Mr.
Speaker, the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, through the Department of Roads, invited investors to participate in a competitive bid by submitting expressions of interests in March 2018. The Ministry then went on to shortlist investors who proved financing capacity and they subsequently submitted their proposals in October 2018.
After adjudication, the above mentioned road was awarded to a consortium on 14th February 2019. The projects were then presented to Cabinet and in April 2019, Cabinet gave the resolutions to approve the signing of the memorandum of agreement with the investors which was done on 4th April 2019. The memorandum of agreement paved way for the conducting of the feasibility study which would advise what would be the structure of the concession agreement with each investor funding the feasibility study using own resources.
The investor then proceeded to commence working on the feasibility study whilst also working on securing a financier for part of the feasibility study and also construction. In March 2021, the investor agreed with a partner to be the financier for the full project to completion. Even though delayed by the COVID-19 pandemic, the investor is working on completing the feasibility study. I thank you.
HON. MOLOKELE: I think the Minister has helped to give a comprehensive background but what he did not give is clear direction in terms of the time lines for the way forward. Where are we at and how long should we look forward to seeing something happening on that road? A lot of lives are being lost and a lot of vehicles are being damaged by the very terrible road. It is a major road covering the entire province of Matabeleland North and the tourism industry. So, I want him to be more specific on the next step.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me also thank Hon. Molokele for that follow up question and to say as indicated in the submission, the feasibility study is ongoing and I hope that since we have just 2 months away from the resumption of that feasibility study, it will also be prudent for us then to continue monitoring that. I do not want to lie to the Hon. Member to say we will start working next week or next month. So, with your indulgence Hon. Speaker Sir, what I can assure the august House is that I will continue for the result of the feasibility study which will then guide us on when the works will commence.
HON. NDEBELE: I would like to check with the Minister if mending of potholes along that road has anything to do with the feasibility study because filling in potholes is just but filling in potholes. That road is not traversable and it is killing tourism.
HON. MHONA: Like we indicated through the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme, we then have to attend so that the road is trafficable and passable. That is what we are doing – I have also used the same road recently and works are ongoing but that does not entail the one that I am referring to. The one that I am referring to is rehabilitation of the road. For now, we have just facilitated; we used to have dangerous potholes along that road such that those plying the same road will be in a position to travel without such dangers.
RESUMPTION OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE KWEKWE-NKAYI-
LUPANE ROAD
- HON. MPOFU M. M. asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to inform the House when the Government will resume the construction of the Kwekwe-Nkayi-Lupane Road which started in 1984.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, the upgrading of the Kwekwe-Nkayi-Lupane Road started in 1994 but was suspended in 2004 due to lack of funding. Progress achieved then was 47.4 km of surfacing and two high level bridges at Shangani and Gweru rivers. Work resumed in 2018 with the coming in of the new dispensation under the Road Development Programme. Given the importance of the road, it was to be tackled from two ends, that is Midlands and Matabeleland North in Midlands. The total targeted scope was 50 kilometres with the intention to work on 10 km starting in 2018. Earth works was done for 5 km but only 3 km proceeded until work was suspended in 2019 due to the non-availability of funding to procure some surfacing materials. Funding was then availed for the completion of the 3 kilometres during the third quarter of
2020 and was opened to traffic under the Road Development Programme.
Currently, work on the road is under the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme 2 after the declaration of the state of disaster for the national road network. Work underway includes restoration of connectivity by repairing washaways and grading in Matabeleland North.
Currently, there is spot re-gravelling and washaaway repairs for 100 kilometres. In Midlands, the scope is washaway repairs, bush clearing, grading and spot regravelling.
Road upgrading is targeted to resume during the second phase of ERRP 2 which is targeted for the year 2022. It should be noted that the priorities for road upgrading are supposed to be done by the respective Provincial Development Coordinator’s (PDC) and it is our hope that the project will be given the priority it deserves so that the upgrading will continue. I thank you.
CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGES AT MURONGWE AND MABORI
RIVERS IN MBERENGWA EAST CONSTITUENCY
- HON RAIDZA asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development to explain to the House when proper bridges will be constructed at Murongwe and Mabori Rivers in Wards 3 and 7 in Mberengwa East Constituency
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Mr
Speaker Sir, Murongwe and Mabori River bridges in Ward 3 and 7 in
Mberengwa East Constituency are under District Development Fund (DDF). The Ministry and DDF are cooperating to ensure that the connectivity is assured for all communities under ERRP 2. This cooperation is a bottom up approach where district level road authorities submit their priorities under the programme for funding.
The river crossings in question is on Ngezi-Vutsanana Road. The scope of work on the road in 2021 includes grading, patch gravelling, structure repairs (Murongwe and Mabori Rivers), bush clearing, culverts cleaning, gully reclamation as well as signs and drains maintenance for
30 kilometres.
RECTIFICATION OF LOAD SHEDDING CHALLENGES
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House when the load shedding challenges being currently experienced will be rectified.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Unfortunately, I do not have the written answer but I can answer it from my head. During the month of April we had serious challenges with our units at Hwange Power
Station. Our electricity generation dropped down to very low levels. We were operating with two units at most. That is when we experienced load shedding here and there though it was not as pronounced. As for load shedding, it is something that we cannot give a deadline when it should end because of the challenges we are experiencing with our aged equipment. The three IPPs are not generating electricity (one at Bulawayo, Munyati and Harare) – we operate at most with one unit at a time. We still have shortages of electricity. We cannot give a deadline when the load shedding will end. We are working flat out to make sure that we operate with at least four units at Hwange power station. We stepped up generation of electricity at Kariba since the level of live water has gone up to above 50%. So, load shedding can only be minimised at most but we cannot give a deadline as to when load shedding will come to an end. I thank you.
REPLACEMENT OF TRANSFORMER IN RIMUKA,
KADOMA
- HON. CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the House as to when the Ministry will either replace or repair the transformers in Rimuka Ward 2 Kadoma.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT: Thank you Hon. Member for the question. Zesa
has procured 320 transformers sized 315kv meant for residential areas.
The clearance process is in progress and the expected delivery time is 68 weeks. After receiving the transformers, we will then be distributing to needy customers.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the response and the Ministry for procuring the transformers. What criteria will be used to allocate those transformers because these residents in Ward 2 have gone for three months without electricity because of the vandalisation of their transformer.
HON. MUDYIWA: The criteria is that we prioritise critical areas like hospitals, schools and those who have been without transformers for a long time. There are some areas which have gone for over a year or more without transformers due to the challenges that the ZETDC is going through. At the moment we are prioritising farmers. We are making sure they have transformers so that the electricity is restored for them to be able to irrigate the wheat.
REPAIR OF SOLAR INFRASTRUCTURE IN MBERENGWA EAST CONSTITUENCY
- HON. RAIDZA asked the Minister of Energy and Power
Development when the broken down solar infrastructure in Mberengwa
East constituency which was installed by REA will be repaired at Svita
Clinic and Chief Matarutse homestead.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): At Svita clinic in Ward 3 all
our solar systems are guided by the country’s Rural Energy Master Plan REMP. When the solar systems were initially installed, they were very small, about 0.84kw and some of them had challenges on charge control systems. In this regard we are to upgrade them to 5kw which is the standard size required by clinics. In this particular enquiry, Svita clinic is being considered for grid electrification and we are targeting 2021 to electrify the clinic. Then on the electrification of Chief Mataruse’s homestead, this programme is to be put on the national grid this 2021 but I cannot give the exact date. I thank you.
ELECTRIFICATION OF BUSINESS CENTRES IN MBERENGWA
EAST CONSTITUENCY
- RAIDZA asked The Minister of Energy and Power Development when Ingezi Busines centre and Madozvo business centre will be electrified in Mberengwa East Constituency.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): At Ingezi business centre in
Ward 3, it is in our REMP under consideration to be electrified by REA.
Funds permitting it will be considered for electrification by next year 2022. On Madozvo business centre ward 6, it could not be located on our electrification programmes. I think the Hon. Member can assist us with the proper name. I thank you.
REPAIR OF TRANSFORMERS AT HOFISI AND CHIKOMO
VILLAGES IN MBERENGWA EAST CONSTITUENCY
- RAIDZA asked The Minister of Energy and Power Development when the transformers at Hofisi village and chikomo village in Ward 8 will be repaired.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): ZESA has a consignment container procured from China for the repairs and maintenance of all accessories, transformers included and expected delivery will be in 6-8 weeks time. ZENT Enterprises is ready to receive and start repairing transformers. This is a general response but on this particular enquiry, we have not yet received any report with respect to the faulty transformer. I thank you.
RECRUITMENT OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITY INTO THE
POLICE SERVICE
- HON. E. NCUBE asked the Minister of Home Affairs and
Cultural Heritage to inform the House on:
- government policy on the recruitment of persons with disability into the Police Service who have professional qualifications but cannot perform other physical tests such as running; and
- disaggregated data on the number of persons with disability currently employed in the Police Service by province, gender and job position
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MABHOYI): Thank you Hon. Ncube for your question. The Ministry does not recruit people with disability because of the nature of training under the Ministry. There is a lot of vigorous training which includes running and exercises. What usually happens is that those who are disabled within the Ministry, that is those who were injured when they were training or injured by way of accidents, they remain with the Ministry and they can be given other duties like administration and so forth. We do not recruit disabled persons.
On the second part of the question, we are talking of those who have been injured during service and we have the numbers as follows:
PROVINCE | MALE | FEMALE | TOTAL |
Matabeleland South | 2 | 1 | 3 |
Matabeleland North | 4 | 4 | |
Bulawayo | Nil | Nil | nil |
Midlands | 11 | 4 | 15 |
Masvingo | 21 | 8 | 29 |
Harare | 23 | 9 | 32 |
Mashonaland East | nil | nil | nil |
Mashonaland Central | 1 | nil | 1 |
Support Unit | 4 | 2 | 6 |
PGHQ | nil | 6 | 6 |
PPU | 7 | nil | 7 |
Manicaland | nil | 2 | 2 |
Mashonaland West | 4 | 1 | 5 |
CID | 2 | nil | 2 |
All in all we have 87 males and 25 females which bring a total of 112 and all of them are doing administrative work. Those members have been injured either during combat or through accidents.
HON. T. MOYO: My supplementary to what she said that the Ministry of Home Affairs does not recruit people who are disabled, is it not retrogressive and discriminatory? In my opinion, it is archaic and retrogressive to discriminate people who are disabled because the nature of crime these days is highly sophisticated. There is cyber crime which needs people who are ICT literate who can detect crime related to finances. We can have financial intelligent officers who can be recruited when they are disabled. I request the Hon Minister to react.
If they were going to recruit 5% who are disabled who may not be given the training which is labour intensive where people are forced to run and so on; we want training which targets the mind or brain, that is my response. Is it not discriminatory because people just think of physical when they arrest people? Someone can use a computer and should be able to detect crime and people are arrested.
HON. MABOYI: Thank you Hon Moyo for bringing this issue. I want to reiterate that we have people who are drivers and work in logistics who usually take deliveries to different stations. You will find that those people have been trained and we are not saying we are segregating by not taking the disabled. The first thing which we should consider is that when you become a driver, you have to go for training and we are talking of vigorous training where one can run up to 40km and that disabled person cannot do that. We are saying for those whom you think could work in the offices, are the ones whom we are saying they were injured. Those are the people who take this responsibility. The policy says you should be a person who is physically fit. I am sure you have heard about the young boys being returned home because they failed to meet the criteria of being a policewoman or man. I thank you.
PROCEDURE FOLLOWED BY RAPE VICTIMS AT POLICE
STATIONS
- HON. CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Home
Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House the procedure that must be followed by rape victims at Police Stations when reporting rape
cases.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI): Thank
you Hon. Chinyanganya for your good question really. You wanted us to explain to the House the procedure that must be followed by victims at police stations when reporting rape cases.
What happens here is that Mr. Speaker Sir, may I firstly tell this august House that the Victim Friendly Unit process involves various stakeholders thato include the Zimbabwe Republic Police, Judiciary, the
Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Department of Social Welfare.
Coming to the reporting of rape cases at police stations, a complainant or informant can report at any nearest or local police station.
Every police station has a trained Victim Friendly Unit Officer who then records the statement, interviews the victims, completes all the necessary documentation and takes the victim to the local hospital. Through this facility, we have rape clinics where victims receive counseling before being medically examined.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in cases of minors, the victim’s statement is recorded in the presence of either a parent, guardian or a Social Welfare officer. Where a report is made at a station that is not the place of occurrence, the police normally transfers the docket to the relevant station after completion of all the necessary initial documentation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, at all police stations, victims are interviewed in an environment that is conducive. What do we mean by conducive? We are saying they are not just interviewed in a Charge Office, there is an office where they will go, sit and be interviewed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in conclusion, may I urge the public, especially close relatives and traditional leaders not to sweep rape cases under the carpet or intimidate victims with a view of influencing them not to report. Once cases are reported, action will be taken. I thank you.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I want to thank the Hon. Deputy
Minister for her response explaining the procedure…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please proceed Honourable. – [HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI: Sorry, I missed the question!] -
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Sorry I was waiting for you to finish with him so that you can have my full attention. The reason why I asked the question Mr. Speaker is; I happened to be at Harare Police Central Station a few weeks ago and witnessed a sad story where there was a rape victim who was in the Charge Office. Police officers came in sequence asking her what had happened, and trying to explain to the police officers one after another that she had been raped was inhuman in my opinion.
So is the police aware of those procedures? Had they been aware that there is a Victim Friendly Unit at the police station, I am sure that they would have referred her rather than leaving her to be embarrassed in front of everyone. I thank you.
HON. MAVHUNGA-MABOYI: Thank you Hon. Chinyanganya. I am very sorry about what happened but it is not supposed to be like that. We are saying probably when these officers are out there, at times they may behave otherwise but that is not the issue here. So if you have details of that particular case, please can you bring it so that we can investigate more. We do not want such situations because they will lead to people not reporting. When you are embarrassing a person who has already been embarrassed because when you are raped, you have been embarrassed, hence we are saying if you know definitely where it happened and the person who was affected, you can report the matter to us so that we conduct investigations. I thank you.
PROVISION OF PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT FOR
HEALTH WORKERS AT KADOMA GENERAL HOSPITAL
- HON. CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when Government is going to provide proper Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) for health workers at
Kadoma General Hospital.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MANGWIRO): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Chinyanganya for the good question.
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) is readily available at the
National Pharmaceutical Company (NatPharm), Mashonaland West
Provincial Warehouse which is in Chinhoyi. When Kadoma General Hospital needs supplies of PPE, they can easily place orders from the provincial stores in Chinhoyi and the required PPE will be delivered to their hospital. NatPharm Chinhoyi will supply as per request from health facilities. I thank you and have attached a whole list of what is available at NatPharm stores and will deposit it with the Clerk. Thank you.
KADOMA HOSPITAL/SANYATI DISTRICT
COVID-19 ESSENTIAL COMMODITY WEEKLY BULLETIN
DATE: 17TH MAY, 2021
ITEMDESCRIPTION | UNIT | STOCK ON
HAND |
COMMENTS |
PPE Suit | Each | 200 | COVID-19 FUNDS |
Facemask N95 | Each | 800 | PROCUREMENT IN PROGRESS |
Facemask Surgical | Each | 83 523 | NATPHARM |
Face shield | Each | 4 085 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Goggles | Pair | 839 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Theatre Cap | Each | 9 890 | NATPHARM |
Surgical Gown Disposable | Each | 1 898 | NATPHARM/CESHHAR |
Apron Plastic Disposable | Each | 15 177 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Apron Heavy Duty
(Waterproof) |
Each | 16 | NATPHARM |
Glove Plastic Elbow length | P/100 | 11 | PMU |
Gloves Latex Exam S | P/100 | 11 | NATPHARM |
Gloves Latex Exam Med | P/100 | 618 | NATPHARM |
Gloves Latex L | P/100 | 8 | NATPHARM |
Gloves Nitrile Med | P/100 | 190 | NATPHARM |
Gloves Nitrile Large | P/100 | 109 | NATPHARM |
Hand Sanitiser | Bt/100 ml | 263 | NATPHARM/CESHHAR |
Hand Sanitiser | Bt/500ml | 830 | NATPHARM/CESHHAR |
Hand Sanitiser | Litre | 0 | |
Infra-red Thermometer | Each | 108 | NATPHARM |
Overshoes | Pair | 0 | |
Facemask Cloth | Each | 80 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Bag Refuse Disposal Large (Black) | Each | PROCUREMENT IN PROGRESS | |
Wheelie Bin | Each | 1 | NATPHARM |
Bag Refuse Disposal for Wheelie Bin (Red) | Each | 106 | NATPHARM |
Bag Refuse Disposal Small | Each | 3 | NATPHARM |
Bag Refuse Disposal
(Biohazard) Red/Yellow |
Each | PROCUREMENT IN PROGRESS | |
Bag Refuse Disposal (Green) | Each | PROCUREMENT IN PROGRESS | |
Sharps Container | Each | 3 | NATPHARM |
Scrubs (Top & Bottom) | Each | 3 | NATPHARM |
Calcium Hypochlorite | Kg | 57 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Gloves Heavy Duty | Pair | 128 | MOHCC/NATPHARM |
Gloves Surgical Cuff Sixe 8 | Pair | 187 | NATPHARM |
Gloves Long Cuff | Pair | 2 | NATPHARM |
Detergent/Disinfectant | B/IL | 6 | NATPHARM |
Sodium Hypochlorite 5% | B/5L | 37 | NATPHARM/CESHHAR |
Chlorine Tablet | T/100 | 6 | NATPHARM |
Hand Wash Soap | B/5L | 2 | NATPHARM | |||
Laundry Soap | Bar/kg | 146 | MOHCC | |||
Dish Washer | Bt/750ml | 271 | NATPHARM | |||
Knapsack Sprayer | Each | 4 | MOHCC | |||
Water Bucket with Tap | B/20L | 31 | NATPHARM | |||
Water Bucket with Tap | B/50L | 15 | NATPHARM | |||
Empty Container | C/25L | 36 | MOHCC | |||
Empty Container | C/5L | 25 | MOHCC | |||
Gumboot White Size 6 | Pair | 0 | ||||
Gumboot White Size 7 | Pair | 15 | NATPHARM | |||
Gumboot White Size 8 | Pair | 14 | NATPHARM | |||
Gumboot White Size 9 | Pair | 7 | NATPHARM | |||
Gumboot White Size 10 | Pair | 0 | ||||
Oxygen Nasal
Prongs (Cannula) Adult |
Set | 14 | MOHCC | |||
Oxygen Nasal
Prongs (Cannula) Paeds |
Set | 31 | MOHCC | |||
Oxygen Oral/Nasal
Prongs Infant (Neonat) |
Set | 7 | MOHCC | |||
Oxygen Mask Adult | Set | 10 | MOHCC | |||
Oxygen Mask Child | Set | 10 | MOHCC | |||
Oxygen Supply Tubing | Unit | 23 | NATPHARM | |||
Oxygen Gauge | Unit | 6 | HOSPITAL STOCK | |||
Oxygen Gauge Pin | Unit | 1 | MOHCC | |||
Type | |||
Oxygen Gauge Ball Nose Type | Unit | 1 | MOHCC |
Oxygen Cylinder | 1.8kg | 0 | GAS ROOM |
Oxygen Cylinder | 4.6kg | 0 | GAS ROOM |
Oxygen Cylinder | 9.2kg | 2 | GAS ROOM |
Nitrous Oxide | 31.2kg | 0 | GAS ROOM |
Oxygen Ventilator | Unit | 0 | NATPHARM |
Oxygen
Concentrator |
Each | 2 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Humidifying Bottles | Each | 7 | NATPHARM/MOHCC |
Pulse Oximetere, Fingertip | Each | 21 | MOHCC |
Body Bag Adult | Each | 59 | GOLDEN VALLEY |
Body Bag Child | Each | 6 | HOSPITAL STOC K |
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) 100mg | B/1000 | 11 | EX-MDA STOCK |
Azithromycin 200mg/5ml | B/15ml | 185 | NATPHARM |
Azithromycin 500mg | B/500 | 6 | ORDER NATPHARM |
Ceftriaxone 250mg | Vial | 250 | NATPHARM |
Cetriaxone 500mg | Vial | 0 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Cetriaxone 1g | Vial | 20 | NATPHARM |
Dexamethasone | Amp/2ml | 264 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Doxycycline 100mg | Bt/100 | 31 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Paracetamol 120mg/5ml | Bt/60ml | 448 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Paracetamol 500mg | Bt/1000ml | 314 | MOVED TO M/PHARMACY |
Paracetamol 1g IV | Bt/100ml | 0 | HOSPITAL STOCK |
Prednisolene 5mg | B/100 | 194 | |
Sodium Chloride (N/Saline) 0.9%40 | Bg/1L | 0 | |
Zinc Sulphate 20mg (Co-Pack) | Str/10 & ORS | 1258 | UNICEF KITS |
Ringer Lactate | Bg/500ml | 1280 | UNICEF KITS |
Cryotubes 2ml | P/1000 | 40 | NATPHARM |
Ziplock Bag | P/100 | 31 | NATPHARM |
MEASURES TO IMPROVE NETWORK CHALLENGES IN SOME
PARTS OF MBERENGWA EAST CONSTITUENCY
- HON. RAIDZA asked the Minister of Information
Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services to inform the House measures being put in place to improve the network challenges in some parts of Mberengwa East Constituency, e.g. Mbuya Nehanda High
School, Chiwara Primary School in Ward 6, Ngungumbane Business
Centre in Ward 20 and ZRP Buchwa Police Station in Ward 4.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. PHUTI): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Let me begin by honestly indicating that a similar question was asked and a response was given. It is unfortunate that nothing was done on the ground. In my last response, I had indicated that a site was surveyed and acquired at Mbuya Nehanda and that a network tower was to be constructed by Telecel under the Build
Operate and Transfer (BOT) model arrangement.
The operator Telecel later submitted that they were having challenges of sourcing foreign currency to kick-start the project. The Ministry realising the same challenge was being faced by other operators had to go back to the drawing board. Working with the Telecomms Regulator, POTRAZ we ventured into a pilot project which we hope will be completed by the end of the fourth quarter. The project is to do with redeployment of network towers to underserved or unserved areas of the country. Where they are two or three towers, we de-rig, that means removing one or two and redeploying them elsewhere.
The project will save us from the challenge of foreign currency because most of the material that is used to construct network towers is imported. It is our hope that after the successful redeployment of these towers, the project will be extended to various other areas. Mbuya
Nehanda in Mberengwa East Constituency is expected to benefit from this project and once done, it will cover most of the mentioned areas in the wards. I thank you.
PROVISION OF FUNDING TO KADOMA CITY COUNCIL
- HON CHINYANGANYA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when government will provide funding to the Kadoma City Council for rehabilitation of the sewer reticulation system and the Rimuka Sewer Treatment Plant.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Works started last year
on the rehabilitation of the sewer treatment plant. Last year the local authority received $3 million under the devolution fund, from which amount $1, 400 000 was used for the rehabilitation of the sewerage works reticulation. The balance of $1,600 000 which was paid this year has been used for the procurement of the pump.
This year, the Local Authority has budgeted $15 000 000 for sewerage works and reticulation. Unfortunately, council has not yet completed the procurement process which will enable the devolution funds to be released for the project.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I want to thank the Minister for her
response and also for availing the funds. Actually, I submitted the question last year but it was not put on the Order Paper.
CONSTRUCTION OF THE COURTS BUILDING AT
MUTAWATAWA GROWTH POINT
- HON. KARUMAZONDO asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the Ministry is going to construct the Courts Building at Mtawatawa Growth Point.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Mr. Speaker, I would
like to inform this august House that the Ministry provided the designs for the Courts to the Judiciary Service Commission (JSC) and is waiting for further instructions from them. Mr. Speaker, I would like the House to take note that the construction of courts is under the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. The Ministry of Local
Government is merely a contractor to such projects. I thank you.
*HON. KARIMAZONDO: I want to thank the Minister for that explanation. My request is that Minister, as and when possible can you please consider Mtawatawa as the current building they are using is very small because where people sit before they enter the court is not conducive. That is the Government complex there. So some workers who want to access their offices have difficulties because the corridors will be full of people waiting to enter the courts.
HON. CHOMBO: I hope I heard him right. I think he was just making a comment which is noted if I heard right.
WRITTEN SUBMISSION TO QUESTION WITH NOTICE
- HON. J. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Health and Child
Care to inform the House why people from Ward 3 in Bikita South
Constituency continue to overcrowd at a make-shift structure at Odzi
Clinic while a new standard clinic which was constructed and completed long back at the site using the utilisation of devolution funds still lies
idle.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MANGWIRO): The new clinic in Odzi is now operational after sourcing some equipment from NatPharm. The Ministry of Health and Child Care is currently working on additional room loading.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
TABLING OF TREASURY MINUTES
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MTHULI): I rise to table some
Treasury minutes. Treasury has responded to some of the issues raised by the Public Account Committee and I had sent these Treasury minutes to Parliament through the Clerk’s Office and to the Speaker. However, there is a requirement that Treasury minutes be physically tabled by myself before this august House and I have them ready.
I seek leave of the House to table Treasury minutes which are the
Government’s response to issues raised by the Public Accounts
Committee on the following entities;
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development; ii. The Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and
Technology Development; iii. The Bulawayo City Council; and iv. The Ministry of Health and Child Care.
Section 7 (2) (c) of the Public Finance Management Act mandates that the control of the National Assembly over such public resources is maintained and that transparency systems are established and maintained, which provide a full account to the National Assembly for the use of public resources and to ensure the exercise of regularity and propriety in the handling and expenditure of public resources and Government to respond to Committee reports.
The National Assembly Standing Rules and Orders No. 26 (1) as required by section 107 (2) of the Constitution, every Vice President and Minister must attend Parliament and parliamentary committees in order to answer questions concerning matters for which he or she is collectively or individually responsible.
At the conclusion of debate on a report of a Select Committee, a Vice President or Minister must in all cases provide a comprehensive response to matters raised in the report within ten (10) sitting days. Mr. Speaker Sir, in line with the aforementioned provisions of our laws, I now lay the Treasury Minutes of the following entitles:
- Ministry of Finance and Economic Development;
- Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology
Development;
- Bulawayo City Council; and
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care.
I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day Number 1 to 22 on Today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order Number 23 on
Today’s Order Paper has been disposed off.
Motion put and agreed to.
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT
AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE STATE OF
CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY OF ZIMBABWE (CAAZ)
AIRPORTS INFRASTRUCTURE
Twenty-Third Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion of the
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development on the State of the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe
(CAAZ).
Question again proposed.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just want to add my voice on the report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport, Infrastructural Development that was presented by Hon. Gorerino on the state of Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to introduce my debate in the following manner to show how important this report of this Committee is. I want to premise it on the contribution of the aviation sector to the global economic development. I will bring it down to the national economic development and ultimately to the Civil Aviation Authority of
Zimbabwe, why it should be robust, resilient, effective and efficient.
As I introduce my debate, the air transport is an innovative industry that drives economies. The civil aviation authority’s mandate is to licence the aviation sector as a regulator and as an operator to make sure that there is enhancement of the air transport system or industry that drives economy and social progress. It connects people, countries and cultures, provide access to global markets and generates tourism.
Aviation provides the only rapid worldwide transportation network which makes it essential for global business and tourism, thus facilitating economic growth as I have alluded to, particularly in developing countries such as Zimbabwe in the Second Republic.
Some 2000 airlines around the world operate a total of 23 000 aircrafts and are supposed to land at airports that are managed and run by authorities in the civil aviation department of those nations. They serve some 3750 airports and a good number of these airlines are Alliances; one Alliance which includes the Qatars of our time, this alliance that has the South African Airlines and various other alliances.
I have already said these are dotted around 3750 airports through a route network of several millions of kilometers managed by around 160 air navigation service providers which include the air traffic controllers, the civil aviation authorities of the global communities.
This is how I want to introduce my debate. Air carriers transport over 2, 2 billion passengers annually. This was before the advent of the COVID- 19 pandemic. However, the airports serve around 4 billion passengers annually which include departing, arriving and transporting passengers. The total value of goods transported by air represents 35% of all international trade. Over 40% of international tourists now travel by air. This is how key aviation industry is and should be treated. It should be viewed in this manner and this is how we can grow the economy.
Our report centres on the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe. I have given you the global perspective of how we are supposed to view our aviation industry. It is unfortunate and very sad that I am no longer part of that Committee. However, after this debated, Mr. Speaker, please, have a re-think of maybe positioning me again in that Portfolio Committee because I think I add value as an aviator and as a combat controller of repute, having gone to school for such an occurrence.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe is also part of global initiative to grow the economy towards the Sustainable Development Goals, 17 of them of 2030. This is how I want you to understand how this is all about. There are 17 Sustainable Development
Goals.
I now want to narrow this down to how aviation, which is regulated and also licenced by civil aviation authorities of different countries including Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe, which has about 8 airports that it presides over. In the 8th Parliament, we debated the issue of amending or presenting a Bill that was going to disintegrate the one civil aviation authority into one, a regulator and one, an operator which has seen the Civil Aviation Authority being able to licence and both disappoint airports that have a delinquent way of dealing with the aviation industry. The airports that do not meet international standards, now the Civil Aviation Authority is able to de-register them. Previously, it could not because it was just one mass and it had no power to do that. How does it do that Mr. Speaker Sir? It is informed by technocrats who are supposed to reside in those boards. The board that the Civil Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe currently has, has a debt in terms of depth in the aviation sector and knowledge. It does not have technocrats and people who it can lean on and give expert advice in the aviation industry. It is somehow taking the same route that Parliament has taken in the Portfolio Committee on Transport but this should not be like that. It is my hope that boards should have people that have the knowledge and expertise in order that they can then give or cascade the knowledge of that industry down to management.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the United Nations Goal on Zero Hunger, how does the aviation industry deal with this one? If you knew Mr. Speaker Sir, you would know that 35 000 tonnes of food and commodities are delivered by air. In 2019 Mr. Speaker Sir, this is what happened; 35 000 tonnes of food aid was delivered by air. This is where we saw the advent of the Covid pandemic, to relieve victims of the pandemic, flood victims and the health crisis that was caused by the Covid pandemic Mr. Speaker Sir. This had to be so in the absence of the aviation industry, we certainly would be at sea Mr. Speaker Sir.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you would also want to know on the United
Nations goal that talks to good health and well-being. Out of the 17 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), 15 speak to and about the involvement and inclusion of the economic development and alignment of those goals to the aviation industry. Without the aviation industry regulated by the Civil Aviation Authorities of those nations, certainly there would not be any fulfilling or fulfillment of the SDGs of 2030, which coincide with Vision 2030 of His Excellency, Cde. E.D. Mnangagwa in the Second Republic. On the goal to good health and well-being, 99% of Brazil’s urgent medical shipments Mr. Speaker Sir and those of advanced nations, including organs and blood are sent by air free of charge through the project supported by among other nations, 15 Brazilian airlines. We have benefitted from the Brazilian project of more food for Africa. I want to make you see how aviation has made this goal benefit Mr. Speaker Sir. Ninety nine per cent (99%) of organs, blood and other health related issues have been transported by air through 15 airlines, which airlines have been licenced by Civil Aviation Authorities including Zimbabwe. You cannot touch your wheels or you cannot land and depart on Zimbabwe’s soil except if you have been licenced by the Civil Aviation Authority if you have a licence both to land and to take off.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am going to touch on the fees; the wide boarded and the general airlines right at the tail end of my debate or at the conclusion. However, I also want to say on the goal of quality education, four million students travel abroad to study each year by air. This is how crucial it is for us to have a robust and resilient Civil Aviation Authority. So it is with a heavy heart that I stand here to even note that the boards comprise of people who have no knowledge in the sector. It takes us to medieval times. We do not want to be like “born before computers” (BBC), to be archaic, moribund, rudimental and antiquated. We need to move with the times so that we can impart the knowledge using those people that have the knowledge to impart it to generations to come, including the management of the Civil Aviation Authority.
On gender equality, how does Civil Aviation Authority take care of that United Nations goal Mr. Speaker Sir? Forty one per cent (41%) of aviation employees both in Europe and Africa, although as much a lower percentage in the technical roles, the industry is working hard to encourage greater workforce diversity. This is how well-regulated and operated a civil aviation authority can actually get us Mr. Speaker Sir, to gender equality.
I want to go to the United Nations goal on clear water and sanitation as to how our aviation industry championed, regulated, licenced and operated by the Civil Aviation Authority can enhance the clean water and sanitation. It says here Mr. Speaker Sir, 95% new dry wash techniques for aircraft can reduce the use of our water when we are cleaning our aircraft and that dry wash techniques can only be licenced and regulated by the Civil Aviation Authority.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Nduna, there is a
point of order.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you so much Hon. Speaker. Hon. Nduna is doing a good job and he is being very technical about it but if you look into the debate, it is discussing the report of the Portfolio
Committee on Transport on the state of the Civil Aviation Authority in
Zimbabwe on the airports that were visited by Members of that Committee. I was hoping that Hon. Nduna would come up with suggestions in Chegutu West where he comes from. We should be having a new international airport or a domestic airport. I think that is what he is about to report. So I am hoping Hon. Nduna would swerve and come back …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. He
is going to come back. Hon. Nduna, may you proceed.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for your protection Mr. Speaker Sir. I did not want to talk of the shallow path of this report. This report I breathe life into it but if he maintains that I speak to the shallow path of visiting the airport …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you are left with
five minutes, can you proceed.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I have touched on the universal sustainable development goals. I now want to then say the
Civil Aviation Authority constructed airport Victoria Falls where the Committee went to in the 8th Parliament. We actually applauded the manner that that airport has been constructed. Alas Mr. Speaker Sir, the visit by the Committee on Transport in the 9th Parliament is just repeating what we did, it is like ukudla amahlanzo, what we would have digested, it is not right, it is wrong, it is not just. We speak to our reports and they should actually be responded to, so that we do not repeat what has been done - otherwise the tax payers money is going for nothing whilst people are going on a visiting spree. There is need to see that what has happened to Victoria Falls is applauded by the number of passengers that it is now receiving. In 2019, they received about 250 000 visitors through that airport, in 2020 they received about 450 000 visitors, that is applaudable. The amount that they can handle at that airport is about 1.5 million. We are still working towards that.
Mr. Speaker, it is my view, clarion call and hope that this Committee can actually play its robust and effective oversight role by interrogating the Executive on how and what it is that they are doing. They should make sure that they lure passengers because of the expanded nature of the airport. As we speak, we have the R. G. Mugabe Airport along the same line of 150 million Chinese Exim financed project. It is applaudable that what we had in Victoria Falls, the lock, stock and barrel or the ten key projects, we now have our local consultants and contractors who are headed by the Chinese constructing the R. G. Mugabe Airport, this is what should come out of the report to applaud what is happening in the Second Republic.
However, I have seen a death of that. Now the resuscitation of all the other aerodromes and airports should also be key in that the Civil Aviation Authority only has eight airports, whereas we have Grand Reef in Mutare and DDF is using its cessna aircraft on that aerodrome in Mutare. It is my hope that Civil Aviation Authority can go into partnership with the soldiers at Grand Reef Airport because it is in the Army base with J. Z. Nkomo Airbase in Chegutu in order that we have communication systems that are similar in all these airports. This will enable us to land both our wide and narrow bodied aircrafts in all these airports which are not under Civil Aviation Authority. All the local authorities have at least one aerodrome. I speak for Kadoma, I know at Cam and Motor Mine, they have got one and Gweru has got a Gweru aerodrome which is not under the Civil Aviation Authority. It is my hope that these aerodromes can be resuscitated, this is the opportunity so that we do not continue to be gallivanting and that we are profession ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, your time has
expired.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to represent the 15 Wards of Chegutu Constituency on the issue of the CARS report which is pregnant with a lot of consistency issues, I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 20th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON.
NDUNA, the House adjourned at Sixteen Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHOPNES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, you are reminded to put your cellphones on silence or better switch them off. I will not tolerate any disruption of the Business of the House.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDCUATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 and 2 be stood over, until Order of the Day Number 3 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CENTRE FOR EDUCATION, INNOVATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT BILL [H. B. 1A, 2020]
Third Order read: Second reading: Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development Bill, [H. B. 1A, 2020].
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDCUATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Mr. President. I am humbled to present the premise and principles behind the Centre of Education, Innovation, Research and Development Bill, whose purpose is to coordinate and house programme based synergies among universities, teachers’ colleges, polytechnics, industrial training colleges, vocational training centres and research and innovation institutions in the nation, impacting national challenges for the modernisation and industrialisation of Zimbabwe and to improve Zimbabwe’s economic status through production of goods and services, as well as, the export of intellectual property.
Mr. President, please allow me to state from the onset, the premise that the progress of a nation that has learnt the art of arranging its systems for thinking and making things for itself and the rest of the world or the art of thinking and doing cannot be stopped by anything or anyone. Kurima, (agriculture), kuchera (mining), kupisa (melting), kukanya (mixing), kuumba (moulding and fining) nekugadzira zvinhu (manufacturing) is the hallmark of an economically rising and unstoppable nation. All this naturally originates from a purpose designed Education, Innovation, Research and Development system. Through this august House, Zimbabwe is taking up thinking and doing system for purposes of industrialisation and modernisation through production and exports. Through this august House, Zimbabwe is setting up its thinking and doing systems for purposes of industrialisation and modernisation through production and export or intellectual property
Let me highlight the level of development of any nation is expressed by the extent and the efficiency with which its education system responds to human needs through causing industry but most importantly by the extent to which this industry is produced and nurtured by the education, innovation, research and development systems of that nation. Education must therefore be delivered purposefully. Innovation must be purposeful, research must be purposeful and development must be purposeful.
It is therefore a fact that the way education, particularly its innovation, research and development systems are designed, configured and delivered determines whether a nation will be able to industrialise and modernise or not. The question is how do we invest and spend our time in our education, innovation, research and development systems. Do we spend time cramming or do we spent our time learning, researching and innovating and industrialising? This is food for deep thought as we go forward as a nation. To this end, we postulate that the extent to which a nation’s education system and its element, particularly the components of innovation, research and development are deliberately primed and directed to cause industry for purposes of meeting human needs defines the state of development of that nation.
Mr. President, our nation adopted the vision of becoming an Upper Middle-Class-Income Economy by 2030 as expressed by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa. An Upper Middle Class Economy is our National Strategic Intent NSI). National Strategic Intentions are fulfilled by National Capabilities (kuziva, kugona, nekuita). National Capabilities is in turn filled by the Designed and Configured Human Capital and National Assets (kuronga). Kwenyu munogoneyi? Is a natural question that must be asked to any nation?
Mr. President, Heritage Based Education 5. 0 with pillars (1) Learning and Teaching, (2) Research, (3) Innovation (4) Industrialisation for servicing (5) Human Needs is the philosophical and implementation design we developed and deployed to give Zimbabwe a national capability through Higher and Tertiary Education. However, for all this to succeed, this has to be underpinned by sound legal frameworks that have a deliberate intention to cause the same. Mr. President, games won or lost at design stage. Design thinking which emphasizes on empathy to human needs, in other words when we go to school, we say why are we learning what are we learning which is empathy to our people. So design thinking which emphasises on empathy to human needs by the education, research and innovation and development system is important for our industrialisation and modernisation agenda.
Mr. President, modernization and industrialisation is a deliberate decision by a nation, but is not only a decision in saying we want to, it is how to and whether our laws are allowing us to. Whatever we learn in our research institutions must be on providing scientific technological and emotional solutions to what our people need. Before we do anything, we must ask what do our people want? These solutions lead to industries that are designed to fulfill these human needs. It therefore means that our industries must be caused by ourselves, our education, our innovation, our research and by our development systems. To this end, a legal framework that fulfils the desire to industrialise and modernize through education, innovation, research and development is critical. Mr. President, allow me now to turn to the process and phenomenon of industrialization.
In any given nation, the industrialization process or phenomenon is normally observed as a two pronged process which is a combination of firstly, investment driven where we say people come here and invest. Secondly, innovation driven - where we say we want to learn and do for ourselves. Investment driven industrialisation relies on foreign direct investment and imported technology as drivers for economic growth while innovation driven industrialisation relies on local education, innovation, research and development systems based on ourselves.
Mr. President however, allow me to note that ultimately whether an industry comes as investment in this country from elsewhere or not, industry is a product of innovation wherever it comes from. It means someone, somewhere made that thing happen. Coca-cola was made in America, it comes here but it was made because people thought of how to make Coca-cola there, it did not come from the sky, it came from people who decided to do things.
The only difference between investment type of industrialisation and innovation type of industrialisation is in the origin of the innovation, that is, on whether this innovation is exogenous which means is outside of your country or indigenous, which is inside your country. However, it is innovation; all industries that we see on earth were thought and done by somebody else. As long as we know that, then we know there are some which are done from elsewhere but still they are done through innovation. There are some which are done here but still they are done through innovation. So innovation is the cause of industries wherever there are. Simply stated, all industries that came into a nation as investment types of industries were born as innovation types of industries in their countries of origin.
Again Mr. President, allow me to emphasise that the higher the proportion of innovation driven type of industrialisation in an economy, the more resilient that economy is and the reverse is true, if you make your things like ants they can make an anthill, if you remove that anthill tomorrow there will be another anthill, that is what we call capability. If I break this phone, because we do not make this phone, I will cry but to the maker of this phone if you break it, they will make another one that is what I call national capability – zvinhu zvenyu zvichiputswa muchivaka kwete kuchema. So this is national capability. It has to be cause, deliberately by our legal frameworks.
Where a country can make its own things, it is resilient because nobody can say sanctions, you can make your things, if you do not like it I will eat my things. Innovative nations are also a necessary magnet or attractant for investment types of industrialisation. Mr. President, there is no one who does not want to associate with people that are innovative. So if a nation is innovative, even people want to invest in that country. The innovation attracts industries actually from outside also. I will give an example of China, people who are in the People’s Republic of China whether you like communism or not, those people can make things so you go there whether you believe in communism or do not, because there are things that they make. So it is not about being attractive to certain people, it is being able to do your things and quietly so. We must be able to do our systems in such a way that they make our people do things.
This is the reason why it is important for a nation to have an institution that deliberately causes industrialisation. Where it gives birth to industries just like a cow gives birth to its calves. Just like a tree gives birth to its seedlings, it is deliberate - you do it deliberately kuita namadiro. So we are saying if we deliberately cause industrialisation through a combination of education, innovation, research and development processes through legislated cooperative innovation, research and development frameworks, we will be able to progress as a nation.
Mr. President, education, innovation, research and development driven industrialisation has successfully been applied in the industrialised countries of this world. All the countries that we see that apply it are doing well. They deliberately decide to do what they wanted to do for example faced by an economic depression in the late 1980, Australia started a Cooperative Research Centres Programme in 1990. They said people, no matter where you come from today, we want to make a pot, so we assemble people to make a pot. If they have finished making that pot they go back home and say this is what we are trying to do. After Australia started Cooperative Research Centre Programme in 1990, this caused rapid industrialisation in that country. Other examples are the Swedish Competency Centre in 1994, the Austrian K1 and K2 Centres and the Comet programme in 2006.
The Fraunhofer Institute in Germany which is similar to what we want to set up is an institute that was set up in 1973 to make Germany have people sit together and have ideas in biotechnology, engineering and that is why Germany is unstoppable, they deliberately decided to do that. In the United States of America, industry cooperation research centres were started in 1980 just to make sure that people are thinking about one thing they do it is like this ndima is done and you go to the next.
So countries decide to do what their countries want to become and they do so deliberately, not by accident. We have 97% literacy in this country and we have very intelligent people, but if there is no framework that makes them work together for a common purpose, no matter how many intelligent people that we have, if they are not harnessed for a purpose, we will not develop and we will be surprised why we are not developing. It is because we do not have a legislative framework which says you people; I want beer from Matamba today, can you do it for the next nine months so that we start a factory with Matamba? So people sit together and do it and it will happen.
Mr. President the proposed centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development Bill shall cause development of similar institutions in Zimbabwe to, among other objectives, act as a conduit to cause industry and add value to our natural heritage, innovate products based on our natural heritage, promote industrialisation as well as ensure we turn our education, innovation, research and development system into a pillar of economic growth.
The objectives of this Bill are to set the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development which aims to:
- - Foster high quality education, innovation, research and development for industrialisation in strategically important areas of the economy and society of Zimbabwe.
- - Produce a strong innovation and research based competitive enterprise base for Zimbabwe through facilitation of technology development and transfer for start ups and existing industry as well.
- - Harness a renowned pool of talent in Government, in universities, research institutes and provide industry and private industry to maximise combination of talent and knowledge.
- - Complete the upper level of Zimbabwe’s Education, Innovation, Research and Development through coordination in the creation of better knowledge and application for economic growth.
- - Create an internationally competitive education, innovation, research and development system that attract talent locally and internationally through prioritised projects and
- - Circumvent rigid bureaucracy by creating synergies among public and private institutions that are programme based.
To achieve this, appointed staff will have dual appointments consisting of temporary appointments at the centre and the institution of their permanent employer. It is important to note that the centre occupies the upper level of all coordinating mechanisms and operates above all existing research institutions. This is a Bill for coordinating purposeful research according to national objectives. If for example today we say we want to make a vaccine for COVID-19, we will take all people that we know have the competence to do so or contribution. By law, we assemble them to do purposeful research.
We pay them well and they do it for six months and they have the vaccine; this is just an example. This is how countries that have done it have done it. They always have this deliberate way of doing it, not by accident. It is designed and they know if there is a drought, we assemble a group of people legally to say let us look at how we can improve our maize, tobacco and so forth not people doing it just because they want it. We want people who want it but they can also be supported. Thus the expected outcomes of this institution are intellectual property (IP) based industrialisation opportunities in line with Zimbabwe’s constitutional dictates of devolution.
This entails that industry in Zimbabwe’s provinces will be grown based on particular natural advantages. The ultimate aim is to enhance the chances to surpass an upper middle-income economy by 2030, human capital with culture of innovation who will be the catalysts for development in the nation and who will help the country attract significant science and technology-based investment.
Principles of the CEIRD BILL
Principle 1: configuration of the Centre
This is a state granted institution. It shall have operational staff that is project based. Projects differ from time to time, therefore employment of researchers shall be on a secondment based appointment.
Strategically, important programmes that have an impact to the economy and society through their potential to produce industry shall drive the agenda of the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development which shall be grounded in our heritage, specifically on the heritage endowments found in different regions of Zimbabwe, e.g. a research centre in Beitbridge may focus its research on the heritage of this district, of Marula. Another research centre can be located in Hwange focusing its research on coal, etc. The centre shall have the following founding institutes that are focused on strategically important areas of the economy and society.
Health and Environment: The centre shall conduct education, innovation, research and development focusing on medical technology, implants, prostheses, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology environmental technology and toxicology. The potential industries are environmental technologies, pharmaceuticals, agricultural biotechnology, medical biotechnology, animal biotechnology and prosthetic manufacturing industries.
Security and Protection: The objective is to provide people and the environment with the best possible protection from natural disaster threats. Education, innovation, research and development shall focus on early detection, prevention, direct protection and quickly overcoming the consequences of a disastrous event. Furthermore, education, innovation, research and development shall focus on, e.g. sniffer devices technology for detecting hazardous substances, IT security, saving lives during disasters and crisis management. The aim is to create a reliable and flexible system for saving lives in an emergency, using sensors, communication technology elements and robots. The possible industries are robotics, security technologies, imaging (scanner) technologies and computer hardware and software.
Mobility and Transport: The centre shall conduct education, innovation, research and development to make transportation reliable. Focus areas shall include automotive technology, rail technology, aviation and transport and mobility. The possible industries are automotive, rail technology, vehicle communications and drone technologies.
Production and Supply Services: Education, innovation, research and development shall focus on energy and resource-efficient processes for tomorrows’ manufacturing technologies, automobile and plant engineering, robotics and material technologies.
Information Communication Technologies: Education, innovation, research and development shall focus on application-oriented, customised and integrated solutions for a specific sector: tailored IT solutions. Furthermore, focus shall be on in big data, image processing, cloud computing, broadband communications, virtual and augmented reality. The possible industries are manufacturing technologies, telecommunications, data warehousing, hardware, software and mobile technologies.
Energy and Natural Resources: Education, Innovation, Research and Development shall focus on renewable energy, energy storage and management, using raw materials more efficiently, recycling construction waste and other building technologies research. The possible industries are appliances manufacturing, battery technologies (for example, we have lithium), wind and solar power technologies. For us to be able to use the lithium, we must decide that we want to use it and therefore assemble people that we ask, did you use it.
Geospatial, Aeronautical and Space Sciences: Education, Innovation and Development shall focus on developing geospatial science and earth observation, space sciences, space engineering, aeronautical engineering and astronautical engineering. The possible industries are satellite manufacturing, satellite communication technologies, drone technologies and GIS technologies.
Food Technology: Education, Innovation, Research and Development shall focus on indigenous food systems for Zimbabwe. The possible industries are bakery, milling, food processing, et cetera. One of the issues Mr. President Sir, is to say, who said bread cannot be made from “zviyo?” Because bread is made out of things that germinate, so this issue of focusing on our indigenous food systems for producing world class foods is important but we have to focus on it deliberately.
Electronics and Electro-mechanical systems: Education, Innovation, Research and Development shall focus on robotics, mechatronics, wireless electricity, electro-mechanical systems. Possible industries include mobile communication, nanotechnology, biomedical electronics, et cetera. You know that the world these days is working on the bio-economy that all medicines are found in plants and animals so that we move away from oil.
The Center shall use cooperative research arrangements. This entails that researchers from university, colleges, research institutes and Government work together as a team to accomplish a specific research project.
The Centre shall spin off industries using successfully incubated prototypes from the innovation hubs and industrial parks. This is the method that Zimbabwe shall use to industrialise.
Principle 2: Funds of the Centre
Funding of the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development shall consist of base funding in the form of monies appropriated by an Act of Parliament for the purposes of the Centre, any monies allocated by Treasury for that purpose, any other monies to which the Fund may be lawfully entitled from public projects through its own research and development and innovations.
The Centre, like national universities and State research institutions, shall operate in the public domain and therefore not be subject to taxation under the laws of Zimbabwe.
Principle 3: Staff of the Centre
The Centre shall have a complement of permanent administrative staff responsible for overall management of the education, innovation, research and development programmes and for the legal, financial, communications, as well as, networking aspects of the Centre.
It shall utilise staff from universities, colleges, research institutes and Government laboratories coordinated by the Chief Scientist from the Ministry responsible for Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
Researchers and Innovators shall come from a university, college or research institution, private or public. Researchers are project based thus, they shall only come together to work on a specific project, be rewarded accordingly and be disbanded after project completion.
The head of the Centre and the research staff of the Centre shall have dual appointments at the research institute and university for the duration of the programme. Masters and PhD students shall be part of the staff. For example, the Cooperative Research Centre in Australia was producing the highest number of Masters and PhD graduates who are practically industrialising that country. Australia by 1990 was not as developed as it is today. They made a decision in 1989 that they shall use their people using this method to develop. All countries that have done so have used exactly the same methods; we cannot be an exception.
Principle 4: Administration of the Centre
There shall be a Scientific Board comprising of heads of institutes and Principal Scientists. This board shall be headed by a Chief Scientist. The Board shall be responsible for overseeing the activities of the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development.
The Chief Scientist shall report to the Board and the Board shall report to the Minister responsible for Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
There shall be an Administrative Council headed by a Chairperson. This Council shall be constituted by eminent scientists, a legal practitioner and an accountant. In addition, there shall be a Registrar responsible for administration. Mr. President Sir, this is a very lean institution in terms of human resources. The rest of the human resources are coming for a purpose and they go.
There shall be a corresponding link Chief Director in the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
Conclusion
Mr. President Sir, the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development, through the strength of its collaborative research framework, new products from innovation and spin off industries shall be at the core of ensuring that Zimbabwe is industrialised and modernised in order to attain Vision 2030 of an upper middle-income economy and beyond.
Mr. President Sir, this is like a yoke. This is the organising principle for organised research which has an intention to modernise and industrialise Zimbabwe deliberately. I move that the Bill be read a second time.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on this motion. I would also want to thank the Minister who took time to craft such a Bill. As he puts it straight forward, there was some research done on this Bill. It is not just out of nothing. So, I stand up to support this motion because it says a lot.
Mr. President, he mentioned some issues that touched my heart; the marula that is just lying idle everywhere in Rutenga and Beitbridge. We have no use for those marulas. They are just eaten by animals and people enjoy “mukumbi” only from marula and nothing more. By introducing this Bill, we shall see the use of marula as I witnessed when I went to Eswatini, whereby they make use of the marula. They extract marula beer. They also use it as a seed for their animals. They extract oil from marula and a lot more things, even cosmetics. This is a very important Bill to me. Also looking at another issue which I think the students of the universities are now researching is “madora,” the mopane worm, I met some students from universities when they were making research, because they wanted to see if the caterpillars were only for human consumption. They also wanted to know what value they add apart from being eaten as relish. To me,,,, it means that if all these are found worthy, gone are those problems of asking daily about the unemployment rate, how many people will be employed and where we shall get employment. That question will be a thing of the past, as he has also indicated that it is high time we should forget about where we should go and buy this or that. We should learn how to make our own things here locally and sell them here locally and create employment. Those are just the few words I thought maybe I should say before the Bill is read for the third time. Mr. President, I do support this Bill.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill which focuses on craftsmanship. This is one of the missing links in our economy. There is no development on this segment of craftsmanship. It was not being done in an organised manner. I am someone who is into science, I am very happy that this issue that has been brought before us is actually encouraging and inspiring. This is one of the things that will fish us out of poverty. As a country, yes, we might have sanctions and this is one of the biggest links that will actually help us to get rid of sanctions. That way, we are able to focus and do our own things. Our mothers were married using hoes, this is the craftsmanship being referred to by the Hon. Minister.
These things should be made in this country and I want to say thank you very much Hon. Minister. You have remembered science, you have actually remembered our departed ancestors, this was their lifestyle. You have gone back to the indigenous knowledge of our ancestors of being innovative. Mashonaland has a lot of fruits. We are sitting on things that can actually generate us income and solve our long standing problems. These things, if implemented, can help us. These fruits can help us as a country. Even the problems we have with the roads, let us fix situations that we have as a country, we should not waste foreign currency going outside. The 72 million we hear on auction, it means the money is actually going outside by people who are conducting business outside.
Mr. President, let us not waste money channeling it outside: Instead, it should be used here. A lot of things come out of maize. Even the beer we make consulting our ancestors - seven days traditional beer that is brewed. We have always been innovative in this area, and this is what the Minister is saying that we should augment these things and come up with better products which have value. That will bring progress for this country. We have plenty of fruits in Manicaland. These fruits should be canned. Our learned children who are in the diaspora can help us to market products for this country. They should be getting resources from their own country. Fruits are very important in one’s diet.
Mr. President, if you have got food, you will not visit another man’s house to get food. Even those Zimbabweans in the diaspora, they will be proud of the Zimbabwean food that is exported to their countries. We actually want to see these things being implemented. We are behind time as a country, what is important is the implementation of these things that we are discussing. Things are not in good shape. I would like to support this Bill so that it passes and is implemented. We will have progress in our country if we take this direction. We are the only people who can change and bring something to this land. We are the Upper House and our service is very essential to this nation when it comes to decision making. We want to leave behind great craftsmanship for our children.
In Zimbabwe we have everything, we have minerals like silver, gold, platinum and lithium. God has blessed us as a country. The innovation hub which is being mentioned will have Government programmes focusing on value addition. People are taking raw materials to other countries and this is where our problem is. We do not know about some of these raw materials that are being taken away if there are no other imported stuff. If we are able to do the processing of these products, we will be in a position to know what we have as a country. I am happy that we have a Professor who has come up with an idea that we have always had. This is a good dream. With those words, I support the Bill. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this pertinent Bill which has been brought in by the Hon. Minister, because we have not seen anything like this before. All these years, children were getting degrees but those degrees were just for teaching purposes, that is during the days when we grew up. When we have people such as the Minister, this education is going to yield positive results for the nation. If you look in the streets, these degreed people are vendors; they do not have jobs. Imagine how much money parents waste sending that child to school yet there is no benefit. This is why I am happy because of what has been presented before us by the Minister.
We are rich in natural resources in this country. If you look at Marula fruit, a wild fruit, it is normally found in Rutenga. I used to crush the seed of that plant to get oil from it. If it can be done at a commercial level, we can even export oil from that fruit. There are a lot of things that can come from that fruit. You can even get butter which is very good for health. If we manage to pound that fruit at commercial level and produce butter we will improve economically.
I am in support of this Bill because it is one of the best. This is actually honey before us. As sweet as it is, this is very good. I do not want to waste much time on this. Actually, I urge people to support this Bill. We are actually behind as Zimbabwe. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill in this august House. Minister, I am happy that you talked about traditional foods. Most people in Zimbabwe were against eating our traditional foods in favour of modern foods. Now you can see how diseases are attacking us. As young as 18 years, one would suffer from many diseases due to these modern foods. Since this Bill is before this House, people will change and appreciate our traditional foods. I want to thank you Minister for coming up with such wisdom.
Hon. Minister, this Bill will cover a lot. As a country, we suffered from COVID -19 but we were assisted by Zumbani. People came from different provinces to collect the plant from Mt Darwin. People are now realising the importance of our traditional medicines. I think this Bill is going to help us; it is going to change our way of thinking. We will stop copying other nations because we are used to copy from other nations and it is not good for us.
One day I was reading on a lion match box and I discovered that it was made in South Africa. I was shocked that we even import matches. We do not have batteries for torches and cars. Those oxide batteries, we import them from South Africa. Even spare parts, we do not have. So I think this Bill will help us to rectify some of these things to enable us to have our own things. It will also help us as a country to improve our economy. We have educated people, we only need to support them and see how far we will go. I want to thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to appreciate the Bill that the Minister brought in this House. There is something I need clarification on Hon. Minister. We already have a research station around Hatcliffe, but I do not know whether it is close to our new Parliament. I am also looking at the pharmaceuticals that you are talking about. Actually, we are far behind in terms of research but it is also important to ensure that, are we going to be able to manage this institution to bring the desired results. What we do not want is to end up having a white elephant. What I mean by a white elephant is; there are so many things that we really need to work on. You will be shocked that we are not making tooth picks in this country but we are importing.
We are all aware that we need to have products that are produced locally but we should also work towards the external destination for our economy to improve. What is our economy based research? Who are we making this for? Yes, we want kuimprover sadza rezviyo, but first and foremost, when we cook it our children do not eat it. In our own houses, our children are refusing to have it. We have to face reality; they are refusing it. So if we concentrate on making sadza rezviyo, todya isu vadhara and we enjoy it. We want it because it is healthy but we also need to educate our people to consume it…
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Eng. Mudzuri, I really urge you to wear your mask.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. Japan did the same on vehicles. It did a lot and China as I am saying, did a lot on copy and paste and they just modified a little bit. With our economy, how much can we go into innovation? For example, we have CAPS Pharmaceuticals, the company has been running since Rhodesian days. We were producing paracetamol, multivitamin tablets for old people like ourselves the ‘12+12 Medox’ vitamins which is no longer available now. There were so many things that were being made at CAPS and they are not there now.
We are not even improving that industry to ensure that we produce the best things that we need right now. How far are we with improving own pharmaceuticals in terms of our innovation and producing, something that is going to be accepted by our own people first. Zimbabwe is a strange nation, we prefer something from America or Britain instead of appreciating our own things. This innovation is a brilliant idea. I want to embrace your thoughts but in this innovation, let us innovate while we can and also allow for copying because our economy will not sustain certain levels of starting from grassroots to the end.
Right now, you know it is time for guavas; people have been collecting guavas around Chief Nhema’s place and in my place in my village. Here in Zimbabwe, we cannot even make guava juicy, we are importing this. There is no factory to make guava juicy and guavas are abundant every time and they want the ones we throw away, the rotten ones. Hon. President, I really think we must be more serious in terms of this innovation and production. How far is the Government ready after the innovation to help those with a patent of whatever they want to innovate to give them some help or assistance in the form of money or produce prototype products that can be exported or be used locally? Are we ready to do that or we are just playing science? Playing science is not enough, we must play to the end.
You know in the Rhodesian days, we can laugh at those people but those people had serious innovation but they literally used it just to import parts of vehicles. They used to make buses, which we would adapt locally. They used to have ethanol, the ethanol we are making today, we are copying from Brazil but it was being done here during Smith days. The coupons we are using today were done during Smith days, which means they innovated but did not invent, they copied elsewhere.
I am not saying we must copy but we must be able to take certain patents, play with them and ensure that we utilise this to perfect our own things. I met a Professor in West Africa, he was holding a tin of beef, and he had bought it in the United Kingdom. He said this beef I bought it in the United Kingdom and it is the best beef. Then I said that looks like Zimbabwe’s then we started reading it, it was made in Zimbabwe soon after independence which means we should still innovate and improve on our products.
Hon. Minister, you must go and visit industries, grass is growing in those places. They are making freezits; those buildings are no longer going to sustain anything. What we will have to do is destroy them and get new equipment to run those businesses. We are pretending to be doing business, let us look at ourselves seriously while we innovate. The Government and the Ministry of Industry and Commerce must be more serious to make sure that we revive the industries, we produce and export things. Once we get external exports, we are a sustainable economy; we cannot continue to just sit back. Let us actually start to enjoy the sanctions. Let us try to export what we can and steal what we can from elsewhere whilst we use the sanctions to produce. This Bill must be interlinked to other Bills which are with Commerce and Industry and also linked to the already research programmes that we have and other studies being done by universities. We must see how best we can utilise this Bill to ensure that we get the best out of this initiative.
*HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I am happy that you have accorded me an opportunity to support the Bill that has been brought by the Minister of Higher Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development. Minister, I stand up to strongly support on this Bill. This is the correct time for this Bill to be brought into this Senate. Zimbabweans, we are well known for being educated but there is nothing that is made in Zimbabwe that we are exporting.
With this centre that you want to establish for innovation, research and development, the expertise of Zimbabweans now has to be channeled to tangible things. Right now in the rural areas where we come from and relating to COVID-19, wherever you go, they ask you whether you have tried using zumbani. It is good Hon. Minister that our scientific knowledge should bring out the components of zumbani because we are capable as a country, to come up with a pill which we can use and we should try that, not only there, but we have our ancestors who used medicinal plants and herbs. We should utilise that which they used for us when we were young children. We should pass through this Centre to see exactly what the chemical formula of these herbs is. That way, we can get great assistance from that understanding.
Most of the children went out of the country because they were finding no direction. If you are able to utilise this Centre, this will be of great assistance to us as a nation. I support this Bill greatly. Money can be a problem for us as a country and as a nation but, if you look at the resource allocation, this is a very good Centre which needs to be developed and assisted because to begin something might be a problem, but it needs all the support that can be rendered to this institution. We are proud of Zimbabwe and we will be proud because of this initiative in the whole of Southern Africa. With these few words I say thank you Hon. President.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for according me this opportunity. I no longer have anything to say but I just stood up to thank the Minister. There are some Bills which find their way to this House which are full of animosity. This one, everyone wants to debate because it is very important. I want to thank the Minister, he is the only one with the knowledge which he was able to extract from his country. Last week my children who are in South Africa were making a lot of noise saying they wanted sweet potatoes, dried vegetables and ground nuts because these things are not found there.
My departed mother used to grow cassava. We would dig up the cassava, prepare it, dry it and pound it into mealie-meal. Our children do not know these things. I think what is left, the President is going to fulfill it. In Manicaland there is n’ii and some of us think that it is not important but it is important because of the Innovation Hub that you are talking about. Maybe we will find the beneficiation of n’ii. I know Hon. Minister next time you will come and tell us the products of n’ii that will be helping us as a nation. I once said that this Covid, there were people in these groups who were looking for snuff. They were saying if you use snuff, you will not be affected by Covid. We can view it as rubbish but there are a lot of things Mr. President. Wine that is coming to this country is from South Africa. We have talked about Marula, the wine that is produced here that it does not taste good but I think we should make things that taste nicer than those from South Africa.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I come from Mashonaland West and there was an innovation hub that was initiated by the Minister. If the equipment and the resources are there, we will be the best in Zimbabwe. We used to hear some of these innovative ideas from other countries beyond our borders, but now we have the capability to come up with the same in this country.
We are happy that we are going forward with this idea. Allow me to start with fruits, especially when I look at Zvimba, even during the season for mangoes. There were a lot of guavas and a lot of lorries came to collect them. People should come up with innovative ideas as to what products we can come up with from these fruits. We were looking at juices that we can drink. A lot of elders have their own indigenous knowledge system and their own traditional science. The Ministers should bring the academic side of these innovations and complement what we have as culture communities. What was being referred to as beer from Marula fruit should be augmented using the scientific knowledge that the Minister is bringing in.
We should also work on reducing the alcohol content and this is something that we can work on as we augment this product. There is actually organic fertiliser in our area. If you add that to your vegetable garden, it will grow and you will be shocked. We should look closely at what it is all about. That manure assists a lot and even the Minister can look at that.
Let me move on to our miners. There are a lot of things that our artisanal miners engage into when they are mining. Some of this technology and innovation they use in mining should be closely looked at. If there is need to improve to a better product, it should be done. We should support such ideas and support the Bill which was brought before us. Our children who went to tertiary education and got a degree, most of them will go out of the country looking for greener pastures but now we have found a way of putting a hold on the brain drain in this country.
There is a lot of gold in this country. It is found through different means. Those who are in science and technology should work around the methods of operation on how we can get gold. This indigenous knowledge is not something that is learnt in a classroom but it is passed from generation to generation. I would like to thank the wisdom that is being displayed in this country. A lot of snakes are dangerous; they actually bite but if you go to experts who are well-versed with what happens, people can be healed without even going to a hospital no matter how poisonous a snake is. If you go to someone who really has indigenous knowledge, people will be assisted. This is an opportunity on what the Minister introduced to us, that this area is studied and proved. This is where innovation hubs come through.
I have just stood to support this Bill. We support your Bill Hon. Minister. May you continue to research into these areas. With these few words, I say thank you.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Hon. President for affording me this opportunity to thank the Minister for the Bill. We embrace the Bill. I think if he was appointed a Minister before, we could have been somewhere by now. We have a lot of things in Zimbabwe. The late Oliver Mtukudzi sang that you should be proud of your origins.
As I stand here Mr. President, we have things that we are no longer doing which were being done by our ancestors, like the use of herbs. In 2013, I visited Parirenyatwa hospital because I had problems with my womb. I was bleeding and it was suspected that I had cancer. I met this woman and explained to her about my problem. She referred me to her husband who was very good at treating such ailments. I visited them in Rushinga and was treated using herbs. From 2013, I used to put the herbs in my porridge in the morning and evenings and I no longer have that problem.
We have people who are very good at these things in this country. When my daughter in law was bitten by a snake, we simply approached someone who is well-versed in these things. Even if she could not walk, the medicine was applied on someone and she was healed. She vomited the poison. This can be done in this country. We should actually work on developing these things. Most of the things that we use in this country are imported. Where are the locally produced things? Some of the clothing material that we use, we import from Zambia. Thank you Mr. President.
**HON. NYATHI: Thank you for giving me this opportunity Mr. President to debate on this Bill presented in this House. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing us such a good Bill. A lot has been said already. What I would like to say Mr. President is; Zimbabwe is well known internationally that it has high literacy rate. Anyone who was educated in Zimbabwe is well received internationally. We have been independent for 40 years but we are starting to discuss that now. Some of our children have left the country to look for jobs and yet we are starting to discuss these things. If all those things had been done from the beginning, I do not think our children would have gone out of this country. This is a very good Bill. I would want to thank the Minister for coming up with such a brilliant idea. I wish the Minister was there since 1980 because if we had started long back, we could have gone far by now. They call Zimbabwe a bread basket, which means it carries a lot of things. So some of the children who have left this country, if some of those resources that we know of, I think our children would have discovered more than what we already know, which means this country would be far ahead. So, I would like to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill here. We should put this on record that this Bill is very important, it should be implemented so that all the children who are in schools should not leave this country. As I speak right now, some of our children are planning to leave this country. We hear that at a certain hospital, there are 15 doctors planning to leave this country. So, how are we going to survive? This is what we should really look at closely. All this good education that we have in this country is benefiting other countries. How are we going to benefit, why are we failing to do it? So, it is very important that this Bill be implemented. This should not end in just talking, we should do both theory and practical to fulfill what is in this Bill. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Members, I urge you not to repeat what has been said already.
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President. This is a very important Bill. Even if you are a mother in a home, do not allow another person to come to your house and give you directives of what you can do within your house. The Minister was sent by the people to work for the people. This idea of innovation will uplift this country.
Looking at where I come from in Bikita, we have what we call guavas and this other insect called harurwa and many more. They are plenty but there is nothing that we can do with them. We need to find a solution of what we can do with these things otherwise they will remain useless. We can even make jam from guavas. These things can actually sustain us economically because we have them in this country. Let us look at the lifestyles of those in the rural areas. They actually go to the hospitals but not frequently, they use herbs and these are of great assistance to them. They get fruits such as plums and namunamu. These things actually help them. We wanted to take an injured relative to hospital but he refused. He resorted to some medicinal plants and he got healed. We have many herbs that are of great assistance if made use of. Even cancer, it can be treated. People would get assistance from these herbs. Let us make sure that these natural resources are made use of. Let us not look down upon the Lord when we have been blessed with such abundant natural resources but we insist in going beyond the borders looking for assistance.
Mr. President, we should admit that these things can be done here in this country. Let us not just talk or present this Bill, we should pass it and implement this. We want people to be happy that the 9th Parliament enacted an innovative Bill. This will help us economically, socially and medically. Even the Lord will be proud of us because of what we would have done. We should not continue to cry when we have all the resources in this country – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to support this pertinent Bill which has been brought by the Minister. I was developing cold feet because a lot has been said but I think that it is important to say that what the Minister is thinking is good. From now henceforth, as others have alluded to, it is important that we should merry this with the work that is there already. At one time, I was out of the country with my friend and she looked at this other dress, it looked very beautiful and she wanted to find out where it was made, only to discover that it was made in Zimbabwe.
Mr. President, I think the way we see things is very good but I do not know where we get lost because we are the best producers of cotton. It is important that where cotton is grown, factories should be established for value addition, like innovation hubs. You know that zumbani is now made into lozenges by one of our universities. I think these universities should be resourced so that everyone gets access to zumbani lozenges. All the adults, if we eat seven million lozenges, I think we will go far.
Mr. President, what the Minister has said is very good. What is needed is just the funding now. You know Mr. President that from way back, the Minister is aware of it that our polytechnics used to embark on big projects especially for the engineering department. They would do competitions as polytechnic colleges. I think what they lacked was support. I want to thank the Minister for this Bill. As Parliamentarians, we should allocate more money to this Ministry because we want to see - like what others have alluded to. We are in 2021, we want to see that after a year or two what would have happened. Our monitoring and evaluation - like these days, we sweeten our tea with honey. Normally when I am buying honey I check whether it is from Zimbabwe.
There are a lot of things that we can embark on and get money and also export some to get foreign currency. Finally, I would like to say to the Minister when looking at those innovation hubs, he should also consider the issue of transportation. Like what others have alluded to, we want to manufacture buses which are suitable for our roads. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Thank you Mr. President. I want to add a few words to this discussion. I would not repeat what others have said. In the word of God, the Bible says ‘my people perish due to lack of knowledge’. We find that in the book of Genesis, God created man in his own image. So I support this Bill. I think it came late for us as chiefs because with this devolution, I think our rural areas will be urbanized. Our rivers are silted. We have heard that glass is made from sand, why do we not remove the sand then we bring machines which can make glass. I think we can employ a lot of people and we would have revamped our dams.
One speaker once said to me that it is a dangerous thing for people to spit at your grave saying this man was useless. We want to leave a legacy for future generations. We want to leave an inheritance for our children. So it is you who make castle great. We say that it is us who make Zimbabwe great. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION AND SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Mr. President. I thank the Hon. Senators for supporting the Bill. What they are saying is we knew what we wanted but we did not know how to do it but this Bill is answering the ‘how part’. So I want to thank you for your support. This Bill articulates and alluding to the support of what is there and what will be coming. The creation of new things.
I want to finish off by just saying, when a people are conquered there are at least two things that happen. I shall call it anatomy of defeat. Therefore, what is anatomy of defeat? Anatomy of defeat – muviri wokukundwa wakamira sei. When a people are conquered, the first thing that is removed from them is their food so that they can go and buy fat and iced foods. How does your food get removed, by saying zvenyu hazviiiiti. When you are removed from your food and your resources, you are vulnerable, weak and you are defeated.
The next thing, they remove you from your medicine; they remove you from all abilities. I know that in Njanja, there was a lot of mbira making and this making of things from mhangura and the like. The first think that they did was to destroy that so that after two generations you no longer know how to make them. The next thing is they attack your belief system so that your belief is completely defeated. One of the examples is, Mr. President with your permission: Musadherere zvakaitwa pakuisa rinda ra Rhodes kuMatobo, kuNjelele. That was our shrine. So they discreetly bury him there so that when we pray he does not know you. That is the anatomy of defeat.
So, what is the anatomy of victory? This is when a people say we believe in ourselves. We know we have been defeated but we know we are victors now. In 1980, we were able to defeat but the war is not yet over. We now have to defeat the issue of not being able to make things for ourselves. It can only be done when we look at the base laws of our technology and change them so that it is lawful to make things. It is lawful to be ourselves; it is lawful that a Zimbabwean cannot do purposeless education; purposeless science and purposeless innovation.
Hon. Sen. Muzenda, talked about polytechnics used to teaching purposeful education and we have very purposeful people but the law was not making them purposeful. There was nothing that would take them from that content that you admire to an industry. It was deliberate, therefore there must be a deliberate investor, so that we are of the same belief that we can do it. It can start small but it will grow. Kamoto kamberevere kanopisa matanda mberi. What you are growing Mr. President, you are starting a fire for the independence of this nation in terms of making things. So I want to thank the Hon. Senators for championing this movement. It is a movement of self determination, it is a movement of self respect and it is a movement that we are a people and being a people means you can cook and grow your own food, dig your own minerals and make your own things at least to survive, sell and trade. This must be deliberate; it cannot be by accident - hazvifanire kuva chisamiso kana masaramusi. We design our future and it starts here. Mr. President, I want to thank you. I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CENTRE FOR EDUCATION, INNOVATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT BILL [H.B. 1A, 2020]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 23 and First Schedule put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
CENTRE FOR EDUCATION, INNOVATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT BILL [H. B. 1A, 2020]
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Mr. President Sir, I now move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA), the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Three Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 18th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I rise on a matter of public importance and my matter has to do with the issue of implementation. Madam Speaker, as a country, we are very good at coming up with programmes, projects and plans. For instance, we had ZIMPREST, ZIMASSET, TSP, and NDS. Our problem has to do with implementation, monitoring and evaluation. Of late, I saw the Minister responsible for Implementation, Monitoring and Evaluation going around on a monitoring tour.
Madam Speaker, we want to know whether those projects which are in NDS1 are being implemented to the letter and spirit in which they were written in that document. I would like to propose that the Minister who is responsible for Implementation and Monitoring comes to this
House and give a Ministerial Statement in regards to all the projects so that we see whether there is progress or lack of it. When NDS1 says there is going to be drilling of 35 thousand boreholes, people want to see those boreholes being done. When it says we are going to create 760 thousand jobs, people want to see those jobs, they want to touch and feel them. When it says we are going to build 100 schools, people want to see those schools.
I would like to urge you Madam Speaker, so that the Minister responsible for Implementation, Monitoring and Evaluation comes into this House so that he tells us whether there is progress or lack of it in terms of these projects. In order for you to see whether there is progress, a project is supposed to be implemented. Thereafter, it must be monitored and evaluated. Therefore, we what to see whether there is any progress or lack of it in terms of projects which are being done by this country in terms of NDS1. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Dr. Khupe.
You have raised a very valid point. I will ask the responsible Minister to come to the House with a Ministerial Statement to give us update on the implementation of all those programmes. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker and good afternoon
to you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I have a point of privilege that I want to put across on a point of national importance; in particular, where I come from in Chegutu West Constituency, in the past three or so days, we have had road carnage or road traffic accidents that have claimed close to 10 lives. The reason I rise on this point Madam Speaker, it is as enshrined in Section 119 of the Constitution that speaks to my role as a legislator, role of representation of law making as well as on playing oversight on the Executive in the manner they carry out their mandate.
Madam Speaker, the road that was constructed by Group 5 and
Intertoll 821km also passes through the constituency where I come from.
The distance between Chegutu and Kadoma is 35km and it is in the
Genes Book of records as the longest straight stretch under the sun in South of the Sahara in the Southern Hemisphere. Drivers get tempted to speed on that road and as a country, we have about five deaths per day due to road carnage but the past three days have seen those five deaths per day reside in my constituency along this road I am talking about. Madam Speaker, I therefore ask that the Minister of Transport comes to this House and share with us what it is that he has done in terms of implementation of some of the recommendations of your Committee on Transport in the Eighth Parliament that speaks to establishment of the accident victims stabilisation centres especially on all tollgates so that the people that are involved in road carnage and road accidents can be ferried to those accident stabilisation centres within the first hour after the accident. That is the first issue Madam Speaker.
Your Committee left it at the stage where the operators, Intertoll, of those toll plazas were amenable to the establishment of those accident victim stabilisation centres. Your Committee was going to further propose along the same lines that Statutory Instrument 45 of 2005 has been established to take at least another 5% from the third party insurance and make sure that they capacitate those accident victim stabilisation centres so that there can be serving of life.
Madam Speaker, the second issue, I hope that it is going to cut...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No second issue Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: No, it is just paraphrased on the same accidents that occurred. Madam Speaker, the issue of Traffic Safety Council was given 121/2% from third party insurance so that they can carry out traffic safety awareness and establish teams in order that they avoid, avert, reduce and eradicate the accidents on our highways. It would be important for the Minister of Transport to come and tell this House how that money is being spent if not for the said activity.
Still on that same matter, it is my clarion call, fervent view and hope that if that money which, according to the amount of vehicles that are in Zimbabwe, comes up to about US$10 million yearly, it would be important to see how that money is being utilised with a view of making sure that what occurred in Chegutu on that highway cannot recur.
Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity and I ask that the Minister of transport comes into this House and completely ventilates on the point so that we can interrogate him after his statement.
I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. We
will ask the responsible Minister to come and give this House a
Ministerial Statement. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mine is on national interest importance. We saw a statement by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi on the judges. My understanding is that in the doctrine of separation of powers which we must all understand, the Judiciary is independent, so is the Executive and Parliament. Each one of us has a role to play. What I understand and what I think the Minister should do is to come with a Ministerial Statement to explain why when a matter is subjudice, he decided to comment on it. Now that the matter has been appealed, already the judges that are handling this matter are already compromised. They are under threat. It has never happened where a Minister of Justice who is the father of justice issues a statement like that and goes political in saying that some judges belong to the opposition. We never knew anything that any judge belongs to the opposition as much as we believe that his discharge of duty as a
Minister is for the interest of the people of Zimbabwe. It is important
that the Minister comes and issues a Ministerial Statement because there is now a constitutional crisis in the country pertaining to that and it is important that, that statement will be able to get us to understand. Other than that, he must resign but he must be given a chance because his credibility and that of the justice delivery system of Zimbabwe which must exercise judicial prudence has been failed by one person. I think it is important that he does right for the country, puts the country first and hence his resignation. Before that, it will be good for us to hear what he has to say pertaining to that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I would like to
urge you to ask that tomorrow on question time.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I stand guided by you. Knowing that you are in the Chair, I am very much assured that I will be given the chance to do that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will give you the chance.
HON. NDEBELE: I have one more issue of national importance.
The World Health Organisation estimates that 2.2 million persons in
Zimbabwe have a disability and 2.2 million people is almost the size of the population of Botswana. Put differently, this is too large a section of our society to ignore. As a country, we have a long way to go...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele, I am
reminding you to raise your issue in one minute. I am discouraging you
to...
HON. NDEBELE: Yes, I am doing that but if you allow the principal desk to continue behaving in this way, it will take longer for me to do it. I was going to keep myself within a minute. I know the rules perfectly well but it is discouraging if the principal desk is going to be behaving like this.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Behaving like what?
HON. NDEBELE: Handing love letters and tagging on what
Ndebele should do or not.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May you please ask your
question Hon. Ndebele.
HON. NDEBELE: I will leave it and raise it on another day if it pleases you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 8 has been disposed
of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
PENSIONS AND PROVIDENT FUNDS BILL [H.B. 17, 2019]
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on Second Reading of the
Pensions and Provident Funds Bill [H.B. 17, 2019].
Question again proposed.
HON. NDUNA: I would like to ventilate the issue on Clause 17 that provides for payment and remittal of contributions to the fund and also penalise non remittal of contributions by participating employers making certain persons civilly and personally liable for non remittal of funds. For a very long time, the issue of non remittal has been going on with impunity, in particular where I come from – Chegutu West Constituency and Chegutu Municipality. Chegutu West Constituency in general and Chegutu Municipality in particular, this only comes out when employees want to claim their pensions and when they are told that the contribution have not been remitted to the fund. This is very key in that it only comes to the fore after the member or contributor has left the service and it is quite something that is acrimonious and should not be allowed to continue recurring. Having said that, I think Clause 17 that is being proposed is quite progressive in that it enforces the issue of
remittal.
Clause 19 goes further to talk about the minimum benefits to be provided by a Fund to its Members and beneficiaries. Just yesterday or the last question time, the Minister of Public Service and Social Welfare spoke about the increase of the quantum of pension funds from the current $25 to $65 by December. It is because this has never been provided for in real monetary terms. We are trying to make sure that we race after our local monies that have lost value. At the time when the pensioners were contributing, it would have been worth $80 for them to get back their remittances, but currently it is $25.
So this Clause 19 is quite progressive in that it protects the value and the minimum benefits which pensioners can get. I am hoping that the fund regulators can actually have it cast in stone from the time that the contributors are contributing to the time of the pay out. Putting that Clause in place ensures that it protects the pensioners. When we dollarized, they used to pay out $80 but currently the pensioners are getting $30 to $25 dollars. It means there was a dearth in terms of
legislation.
The legislator did not contemplate at the time that our money was going to lose value but this Clause 19 has foresight and a futuristic meaning in terms of protecting value for the pensioners. I say this because currently with US$30 the pensioners cannot pay for utilities. They cannot pay rates contributions at council because everyone who owns a property in Chegutu West Constituency is at pensioners level because we have a void of about 25 000 houses and we have 20 000 houses. What it means is with a population of more than 50 000 it means everybody who owns a house is a pensioner. So, they cannot afford to pay rates because Clause 19 was missing in the previous Fund. I applaud the Minister for proposing that Clause. It shows that it is an amendment in the main Bill that is subsisting.
I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to vociferously, effectively and efficiently deal and dispose of that Bill in the manner that I have because of Chairman Nyamarango, Chairman Mungwa, Chairman Chidemo from Ward 25, Chairman Charles Makoni in Ward 1 and Mr. Green who have asked me to come and contribute in the manner that I have in relation to the Pensions Bill. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: I am rising ostensibly to seek clarity on the rule that you were standing on when you interjected my contribution. The rules of this House are written in black and white. Until it is clarified I stand on two positions that you either stopped me because I belong to the opposition or because of where I come from. On which rule did you make that determination that I must not contribute when I am a fully sworn in Member of this House?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon, Ndebele before you I
recognised Hon. Khupe so it is not about your party because if it was about your party I would not have recognised Hon. Khupe. Secondly, Hon. Khupe comes from the region where you come from so there is no regional issue there. Thirdly, it is there in our Standing Orders. It is only that we do not have hard copies for now but it is there in our Standing Orders that your statements must be one minute statements. I will ask the Clerk to bring it tomorrow or the day after tomorrow so that
I will show you and the whole House where it is written in the Standing Orders.
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, what I find unbelievable is that you could then predict that my presentation was going to ...
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No Hon. Ndebele I did not stop you
but I was just urging you not to take a long time.
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Nduna had four to five minutes to speak and even in his last instalment, he was naming people from wards and from his constituency. We represent people as a nation here and you never made a determination after his instalment. I thought you would make a ruling spiking what he had said.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, he was still in his time because he had 20 minutes to debate.
HON. NDEBELE: But you stopped me from speaking. I know the rules I am a lawyer. I was going to be within one minute.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not stop you Hon. Ndebele. I
was just urging you ...
HON. NDEBELE: If this Parliament is for a people coming from a particular part of this country, say so. I will be happy to go back home.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sorry if you think like
that Hon Ndebele but it is not about regionalism or partisan.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order, my proposal is that can you give him a chance tomorrow to put his point of order. I know you are in the Chair.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will give him on Thursday.
Thank you Hon. Mliswa. It is there in our Standing Rules and Orders on Order Number 61 (1) where is it written a Member who is not a Minister may make a statement for one minute on a matter of public importance.
HON. NDEBELE: Very true but you cannot anticipate what I am going to say in one minute.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I was just urging you. Hon
Ndebele, may you allow the business of the House…
HON. NDEBELE: I am also part of the business of this House. I must be heard.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes you are but I did not stop
you from talking. I only urged you to take one minute.
HON. NDEBELE: You stopped me.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No.
(v)HON. S. BANDA: I think there are sections of the Bill which need to be redressed. When you go to Part 5 on Management and Administration of Fund, I believe that all those members should not have any material or specific interest to the Pension and Provident Fund business except for retirees who should be part of the board. The board will then be assisted by competent and independent private experts on any area they are conversant with. I am saying so because we have found out that those who are managing pension funds sometimes just use the money willy-nilly for the wrong things while the pensioners themselves are suffering. Therefore, as part of the fund and the Commission itself, it should have at least one retiree as part of the board or the Commission.
Clause 23 (1) restricts the board to five members unless otherwise. While I agree that the numbers of board members are supposed to be odd which is perfect, the Bill suggests that “at least one half shall be elected by the members of the fund and the other board members being appointed by the participatory employees”. This seeks to divide the two sides over which side is going to have the majority, is it the employee side or the employer side. That Madam Speaker, is an area which has to be looked at when we are at Committee Stage.
The other issue where there is a fundamental problem with the Bill is that it ignores members who have not been part of the pension scheme during their working lives. At the moment, you will agree with me that the Zimbabwean economy is now an informal economy where most workers are no longer in the formal sector; whereas the Bill seeks to cater for those who are in the formal sector. In other words, by the time those in the formal sector retire, they will have nothing to sit on and we are actually promoting their poverty. We need to look at both contributory pension benefits and non-contributory pension benefits so that we cater for the bulk of employees who are 80% of the working
population.
There is also the issue of how much pensioners are earning. Those who live below the poverty datum line are extremely poor in South Africa. This definition matches our systems in Zimbabwe. Here is the difference Madam Speaker. The poverty datum line was R561 while the lower bound poverty datum line was R810 in 2019. The upper bound poverty datum line was R1227 for the same period. Consequently South African pensioners were not living a worse life although they could receive more. That is what we are also trying to say. We need such a system.
I want to go to Part 1 Clause 6 (1) (b) of the Bill which concerns the registering and deregistering of fund administrators. This Clause 6 gives too much power to the Pension Commission and it does not clearly state in this legislation the process involved until later on in the Bill or Schedule. We need what is in this Schedule to come to this section so that the power that is given to fund administrators or Pension
Commission is known.
Lastly, Part 3 on the Rules of the Fund, is very dear to us because it seeks to protect members’ benefits. It preserves the economic value when the fund administrator changes or when currency is changed or when there is a conversion on defined contributions or when there is any other changes that affect the rights of members. Pensioners have lost four times since 2008 and the rules of the fund have to be made strong so that when any of these things eventually happen, whether unforeseen, or foreseen the pensioners’ funds are guaranteed. I thank you.
HON GANDAWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me the
opportunity to debate on this particular motion. This Bill seeks to amend the Pensions and Provident Fund Act wherein it wanted to seek or to provide the registration, regulation and dissolution of pension funds –
[Virtual network challenges.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gandawa, are you there?
I think we lost him.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, there is an Hon. Member who is trying to log in using a Huawei Y9 Prime. Please ensure that you log in with your full details in order to be allowed into the Chamber debate.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Madam Speaker Ma’am, I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 9 to 14 be stood over until Order of the Day
Number 14 is disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONTRIBUTION OF THE INFORMAL SECTOR ON REVENUE
COLLECTION
HON. CHINGOSHO: Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that this House;
COGNISANT that the economy in Zimbabwe is largely dominated by the informal sector which deprives the country of the much needed revenue as most businesses in this sector are not registered enterprises; MINDFUL that the informal sector is usually accompanied by unofficial activities which give rise to the parallel black market;
CONCERNED that the activities of the informal sector have far reaching consequences to the entire economy in terms of fiscal measures that are aimed at the collection of more revenue in the form of taxes;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon the Executive-
- To encourage the informal sector to contribute to the fiscus by lowering taxes so that such informal businesses can come forward and register instead of operating under the cover of the parallel market.
- To promote small scale businesses in the informal sector and at the same time, attract foreign investment through a raft of urgent measures which will in the long term revive the country’s economy.
HON. KAPUYA: I second.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Hon. Speaker Ma’am, I will start off by giving the introduction. The informal sector is defined as a set of unincorporated enterprises owned by households which produce at least some products for the market. There are two forms of informal sector namely; informal owned account enterprises, i.e. those that are not registered under specific forms of national registration and enterprises of informal employers, i.e. all those with less than a specific level of employment and with employees not registered.
The informal sector plays a major economic role in stimulating the growth of the market economy, promoting a flexible labour market, stimulating productive activities and absorbing retrenched labour from the formal sector.
BACKGROUND
The informal economy in Zimbabwe has been growing vastly since the 1990s to this day and over 60% of the total GDP is in the sector. This has seen the rise in inter-transaction business at community level and complementing of some economic efforts that have not been covered well by the shrinking formal economy. Since the collapse of industry due to the hyperinflation crisis of the 2000, the informal sector in Zimbabwe has formed the back bone of the economy, almost 5.2 million trade in the informal economy, 65% of whom are women.
According to the informal International Monetary Fund (IMF), it has shown that Zimbabwe has the second largest informal sector in the world following Bolivia. This suggests that revenue collection through formal sectors is limited, thus growth in the informal market therefore leads to lower tax revenues for the State. Youths and women are the primary empowerment and job creation target, inasmuch as they are the majority who make an important contribution as productive workers, entrepreneurs, consumers and agencies of change. The country stands to realise demographic dividends by harnessing women and the youthful populace to productive use through inclusive growth.
In support of this sector, Government disbursed a total of over $77 million by end of September, 2020 and these funds were channelled through local empowerment financial institutions such as the Women
Development Fund, Community Development Fund (CDF), Zimbabwe
Women’s Microfinance Bank, Empower Bank and Small and Medium Enterprises Development Corporation (SMEDCO) benefiting a total of
6 763 micro small and medium enterprises.
Challenges Faced by the Informal Sector
The informal sector is at the bottom of the economic pyramid and they often face challenges in accessing financial support from mainstream financial institutions, yet their development is vital to employment creation, poverty alleviation and economic development. Informal activities are often characterised by low levels of capital skills, access to organise markets and technology, low and unstable incomes, poor and unpredictable working conditions. Tax clearance is sometimes an impediment to compliance formalisation, for example, in order to licence with the local authority, one needs tax clearance.
Multiplicity of regulatory requirements, for example, there are nine procedures to be followed for one to start a formal business in Zimbabwe. In sub-Sahara region, the average is seven procedures. This results in high levels of informality. Limited access and high costs of finance, banks perceive SMESs as a high risk and they restrict extension of credit to the sector. SMEs lack suitable collateral and the majority do not maintain financial records and are very informal. Many SMEs have weak corporate governance systems, no succession planning which is required for a sustainable business operation, limited access to appropriate workplace and infrastructure, especially for retail and manufacturing SMEs. High rentals for the available workplace render SMEs to be uncompetitive. Informal activities are often outside the scope of official statistical enumeration and Government regulations and beyond systems of labour and social protection.
The effects of the CORONA virus pandemic, COVID-19 on the informal economy in Zimbabwe has gone beyond the general lockdown hunger, social economic and political effects on these groups have taken place. Domestic violence, harassment, loss of jobs, sickness, nonavailability of working space, mental stress, and debts of outstanding water, electricity and rental bills are part of the realistic effects on the ground. The majority do not have descent operational spaces in the fight against the spread of the COVID-19. This is a new shift which is further destroying the little hope for the greater part of the informally reliable livelihood. If it is not lawfully addressed, this is a catastrophic environment which may cause serious effects in the march towards the
2030 Agenda.
The recently announced increases in mining fees will have implications on the participation of locals in the minerals value chain. Recently, there have been effects to revamp the industry to make sure that it contributes the expected US$12 billion to the economy. The change in the licensing fees at a time the artisanal mining sector is in chaos due to inaccessibility of mining titles and the high prices – these are likely to make it unaffordable for some locals. Most of the locals who have been participating in the artisanal mining sector are unemployed youths who have limited capital to increase their production or participate fully in the mineral value chain. The high fees are now exclusionary and will force the local artisanal miners to engage more in illegal low tiers of the value chain and exacerbate corruption and illicit smuggling.
The advantage of having locals participate at the high stages of the value chair is that the economic benefits are most likely to benefit the nation and it also encourages them to operate in a formal way. It remains a challenge when the growth of artisanal miners is not supported and promoted by favourable policies to encourage formalisation.
The artisanal and small scale mining sector is a source of livelihood for several mining communities. The sector has been producing more through gold deliveries to Fidelity Printers and Refiners. There is need to formalise the sector and create decent work for these communities in an effort to promote sustainable development and transform the economy into the upper middle income economy as
envisioned.
Membership in formal trade unions
Formalisation can and should take different forms which include shifting informal workers to formal jobs, registering and taxing informal sector firms, providing business incentives and support services to informal sector firms, securing legal and social protection for informal workforce, recognising the organisations of informal workers and enabling their representatives to take part in rule setting, policy making and collective bargaining processes.
There is no single one-off overriding policy goal or prescription that can address the concerns linked to categories of informal sector firms, activities or workers. A comprehensive policy framework will include broad goals to address informality, create more protection to the informal sector workforce, particularly the working poor and increase the productivity of informal firms and the income of the informal workforce.
Case studies of formalising the informal sector
Ghana
Ghana’s informal sector efforts to formalise the informal sector often involve the coming together of multiple forms of best practices. The key to formalising the underground economy is to create incentives for those operating informally to see the value of becoming formal, that is to create an environment in which the benefits of formalising outweigh the costs of remaining informal. In doing this, informal sector firms are more likely to voluntarily opt to formalise. Efforts to formalise the informal economy often involve coming together of multiple forms of best practices in microfinance, formalising informal training
(including the best practice in skills recognition), best practice in reforming formal skills training for the underground economy, best practice in formalising in formal trade and community associations, best practice in formalising informal social protection in formalising land
rights.
Rwanda
Zimbabwe can adopt the following strategies that were used by
Rwanda to formalise the informal sector:
Engage local authorities and the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises in the formation and formalisation of informal traders’ blocks for ease of tax administration. Structures are already there in some areas such as the Mbare complex along Simon Mazorodze Road,
Mupedzanhamo, Mbare Musika, Avondale Flea Market and Glen View
Home Industry complex;
Policy changes that are targeted at introducing flat tax rates or flat tax amounts for informal sector traders;
Tailor made educational workshops for each category of current and potential taxpayers;
Specialised training for revenue authority staff in handling different categories of taxpayers;
A study tour to Rwanda to enable Government to have first-hand experience on how Rwanda manages its informal sector. The study tour team can comprise of representatives from the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority (ZIMRA), Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, local authorities and the Ministry of SMEs.
Block Management System: Rwanda Revenue Authority vs
Kabeza Market Vendors
The Rwanda Revenue Authority closed the Kabeza Market following the non-remission of taxes by the owner of the market. The market houses over 1 000 vendors in a block management system who sell various commodities. These vendors remit their taxes to the owner of the market for remission to the Revenue Authority. The case shows the ease of administration by the Revenue Authority where more than 1 000 informal vendors can be managed through one focal person who is the owner of the market/bloc for tax purposes.
Zimbabwe’s starting point
Informal sector blocks are already there in some areas such as the Mupedzanhamo Flea Market, Glen View Home Industry complex; Avondale Flea Market, Mbare complex along Simon Mazorodze Road, as well as home industry and produce markets in other towns and cities. These can be used as a starting point in the journey of formalising the informal sector for ease of tax administration.
The database of informal traders can be obtained from local authorities such as the Harare City Council where informal traders pay their market
levies.
The Ministry of SMEs can be engaged in the training and buy-in workshops of informal traders for ease of implementation of the formalisation process.
Findings
The informal sector can best be taxed in blocks – that is in demarcated areas where traders conduct their business.
- Taxpayer education is important with tailor made courses for each category of tax payers.
- Specialised training for Revenue Authority staff is also essential to equip them with skills to tax different categories of taxpayers.
- Flat rates of tax make compliance easy for the informal sector where record keeping is poor.
Recommendations
- Given the fact that at least US$4 billion is circulating in the nation’s informal sector, taxing this booming sector is a better move. However, there is need for formalisation first as a precondition to taxing the hidden economy, thereby widening the tax base. Taxation of this sector is a matter that deserves some considerable attention. Before this, the sector needs to be incorporated into the formal economy first.
- The informal economy is the economy of Zimbabwe. It requires a separate Ministry that should focus on developing people in the informal economy to becoming part of the mainstream economy
that contributes to taxes and improve their livelihoods to become part of the decent work agenda.
- Tax policy needs to become responsive and targeted at revenue base growth.
- A huge investment needs to be made in tax education starting at primary school level. Government/ZIMRA needs to be seen as being with the people, not against the people.
- Zimbabwe needs to create an environment and culture where tax compliance becomes a norm and way of life.
- Indirect taxation of the informal sector. The simplest way to tax the informal sector is indirectly through:
VAT
- VAT is one of the most common ways of taxing the informal
sector.
- The informal sector buys from the formal sector.
- VAT is less economically distorting.
- VAT covers a wide range of goods and services.
- May encourage formalisation in order to claim input VAT.
PRESUMPTIVE TAX IS PAYABLE BY:
- Operators of taxicabs
- Omnibuses
- Goods vehicles, driving schools
- Licenced and unlicensed bottle stores and restaurants
- Cottage industries kuma Gaba
- Glenview Area 8
CUSTOMS DUTY
- Excise duty – cigarettes
- Excise duty – Motor vehicles
- Excise duty – Airtime
- 10% withholding taxes
- ATM – taxes
- Intermediated money transfer tax
- Proper and inclusive formalisation of the informal economy which will uphold informal economy workers’ rights.
- Policy reviews and formulation to ensure and safeguard decent work in the informal economy, i.e BILL – ACT (spearheaded by the responsible Ministry of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprise Development.
- Ratification, adoption and implementation of International Standards OR the informal economy workers.
- Infrastructural development and access to markets for informal economy workers.
- Access to social protection that provides for an opportunity for everyone to be covered.
- Access to social dialogue that promotes participatory engagement in decision making bodies.
- Decriminilisation of informal economy operations
- Access to finance and skills empowerment from informal businesses to grow.
- Contribution to a fair and simplified tax regime.
FORMALISING THE INFORMAL SECTOR
Formalisation of the informal sector can mean different things to different interest groups. To some, it means shifting informal workers to formal wage jobs. To others, it implies registering and taxing informal workers to formal wage jobs. To others, it implies registering and taxing informal businesses. To informal traders who already pay taxes, for example in Zambia, it means gaining access to legal and social protection as well as support services and being allowed to organise and to be represented in relevant rule-setting, policy making and collective bargaining. To informal wage workers, formalisation implies obtaining a formal wage job-or formalising their current job-with secure contract, worker benefits, membership in a formal trade.
It is primarily important to ensure that formalisation offers the benefits and protections/guarantees that come with being formal and does not simply impose the costs of formalising. Formalisation is not a one-step programme; rather it is an ongoing process of extending benefits of formalisation incrementally to informal sector traders. In asking informal economy traders to register and pay taxes, policymakers should offer traders in this sector some benefits/rewards of formalisation.
APPROACHES TO FORMALISING THE INFORMAL
SECTOR
Formalisation of the informal firms
- Registration and taxation
- Simplified registration procedures
- Progressive registration fees
- Apposite legal and regulatory frameworks, including
- Enforceable commercial contracts
- Private property rights
- Use of public space
- Occupational health and safety regulation
- Benefits of operating formally
- Access (unrestricted) to financial support and information on markets
- Access to public infrastructure and services
- Enforceable commercial contracts
- Limited liability
- Lucid bankruptcy and default rules
- Access to government subsidies/support/incentives such as procurement bids and export promotion packages.
- Membership in formal business and industrial associations as CZI
- Access to a formal system of social security
- Formalisation of informal sector jobs
- Legal recognition and protection as worker.
- Rights and benefits of being formally employed
- Freedom from discrimination
- Minimum wage
- Occupational health and safety measures
- Employer contributions to health and pensions
- Right to organise and bargain collectively
CONCLUSION
The formalistion of the informal economy into mainstream economy is a critical need. This will include fighting and closing corruption gaps and bringing hope to women, youth and people with disabilities who have been operating as outcasts of the nation while fighting for survival. There is need for the government to respond positively to the grievances on the informal economy workers. This can be achieved through engagements with all stakeholders – informal economy workers, government, policy makers, legal representatives, trade unions and others. This will enable social and economic development for the whole country as the government moves to attaining a middle income economy by 2030 and leaving no one and no place behind.
HON. KAPUYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am here to second a very important motion by Hon Chingosho. Formalising the informal sector should not be about taxation only, which is the norm when you hear ZIMRA saying we want to formalise the informal sector so that we increase the revenue base. I urge Government to give rebates to the informal sector in the form of taxes. In local authorities if a company or a business applies for a stand, they are given concessions either tax rebate, or free water during construction period. I feel the same should be accorded to the informal sector for them to grow.
If a project is granted National Project Status, it carries with it a lot of benefits. I urge the same to be done to the informal sector. The benefits of the informal sector today is that it increases or improves the living standards of the people vis-a-vis the idea of increasing the tax revenue. The informal sector improves infrastructure, roads, electricity and telecommunications. For example, if you visit Mupedzanhamo today, the roads are poor. How do you tax such a person? How do you improve the infrastructure? What Government has to do is to improve the infrastructure together with the local authorities because they collect rentals on a daily basis. In fact, some local authorities, on an hourly basis thereby milking the income of the informal sector.
Challenges of the informal sector are lack of knowledge, financial discipline and management skills. Therefore we urge some universities to partner with these informal sectors be it welding section, home based kapenta drying, so that they instill the management skills and financial discipline in the informal sector thereby improving the living standards of the people. That is key. If you look at the informal sector in Zimbabwe today, all the Hon Members who are in this Parliament trade informally in one way or another to supplement the income they earn from this Parliament. As Hon Members, we should make sure that this sector is looked after by Government. I thank you.
HON T. MLISWA: The informal sector is critical to the growth of the country and the role that they play is not just about receiving, but paying taxes. There is no economy that grows without business paying taxes. The amount of money which is allocated to them at times does not even assist them because of inflation. As long as we do not manage inflation in this country, we will just be excited about figures, passing budgest and when the money is disbursed, it means nothing. The informal sector while it receives money from Government, this money is coming from big players in the economy who are taxed heavily and that money is disbursed to the informal sector.
The informal sector’s question is how much money do they contribute to the fiscus. It is the same thing as the artisanal miners where people say that they are critical to the growth of the country, but if you look at the damage in terms of environmental degradation and the smuggling of gold, it is all happening because of that. There has got to be a system which clearly makes them pay tax. When any business is doing well, there must be a cutoff point that if you generating so much you must pay tax. When they are paying tax, there is income generation which certainly goes to the fiscus then the country is able to sustain itself. You cannot have a country where you are taking from one and giving to
the other.
The problem with the informal sector is that it becomes political. The artisanal mining becomes political. It is those who are aligned to a certain party who benefit, others do not. Politicians must desist from creating structures so that ultimately they are politicised. Programmes relating to empowerment of the people must totally be of national interest. If you look at the housing cooperatives for example, the people who run them belong to a certain political party and when they do that, they do not give others. This means it ceases to be a national project, it becomes a political agenda. The same thing as Pfumvudza, the
Presidential Input Scheme, it also does not touch on the population of
this country. You need to have a village head involved, who is politicised and be able to do a slogan, you go to a councilor who is able to do a slogan, yet this money would have come through the channel of Government.
There is no political party in this world which is not allowed to produce its own fertilizer or seed. If there is a political party called
Temba Mliswa, let me go and make bags with my brand and give them openly but the resource is mine, but then not to use Government resource to grow your own political structures. It does not work. Informal sector is now suffering because we are used to giving handouts and they do not pay back. There is no bank which can sustain itself without interest. There is a collapse. Where is this money coming from for it to sustain itself? You do not touch on depositors money anymore. If we are running a proper banking structure, depositors’ money with good interest, must be the one used to be able to be given these people in the informal sector. Equally, can we do a study on how many informal sector players do we have? How many have graduated to the next level?
You cannot be a baby all your life. You must be able to crawl, walk, jog and run, but they are comfortable.
It reminds me of a certain political party where even if you are 40 years you say I am still a youth yet your Constitution talks about being
16 to 35 years. Today ‘the youth’ in these ‘political parties are 45 years. The same thing about the informal sector, who is growing. The challenge the mover of the motion did was to say we want to see them growing. We want to be able to celebrate somebody coming from the informal sector, anotengesa mabhero mangwana ave ne shop muna First Street, mangwana ave kusupplier, avane shop kuGweru, avane mashops kuma branches ese. So that growth is important and that growth happens when there is a system that is monitoring that. Which system is monitoring the informal sector? It is all words.
Hon. Khupe today hit the nail on the head that too many documents, no implementation. We need to have statistics that the informal sector has grown from this number to this number. Those who are in the informal sector, because there is a banking record system, have grown. Tell me, how many have defaulted on loans? The number is astronomical; you cannot even talk about it. So, it becomes a basis of the fiscus, there is this money for the informal sector, it is going and there is this money for all this and that. Any country that plans its future for a year or five years is not a country.
China for where it is today, it was 20 to 25 years – 30 years, a country is like that. A company is five years but we have documents that are written. We had ZIMASSET, like she said, where was the informal sector in ZIMASSET? ZIMASSET was great. I am one of the Members of Parliament who was really duped by it because I never took a car as a Member of Parliament saying I wanted my car to be made by
Willowvale Motor Industry. I never got the car because I believed in it. I said, yes, our industry must grow. When we are now manufacturing and this is the critical issue which Hon. Chingosho, the mover of the motion brings up. When we have an industry, the informal sector grows but without industry it does not grow. So when industry is pumping, industry now requires the informal sectors to supply then we are growing. So without industry growing, we talked about the informal sector being the biggest player in the economy but when you look at it, it is not like that. I will give you an example of a gold mine.
Let us look at the artisanal miners who are mining gold and they are three thousand. Their output is probably 2kgs per month, compared to a company which is well-structured and Edington are doing 5kgs. One, they are observing environmental degradation and these ones are not but they then say, no, let us now close these big companies and focus.
We are not making them the kind of giants that they are supposed to be. We are comfortable with them being small. So whilst they have a role to play for a second time, but from a business economic point of view, it is not sustainable. You can only go to a clinic in your rural area but you will need to go to the hospital and get surgery – that is where the surgeons are. The surgeons are not found in rural clinics, they are found at the hospital where everything is. So what am I trying to say? We now need to grow that clinic to being a hospital. So the informal sector must grow to being the big player.
The other issue that is critical on what he said was that, what are we doing to also get the informal sector to be buying some of these companies? That is the other issue because if you have people doing well, knitting, clothes and everything – why do you not get them to buy some of these companies that are here and not doing anything? Already they know, they move in as a consortium and they are making money but you allow big business people who we do not know to be taking charge of this country. All the industries, all the good asserts of this country belong to people who are outside yet Zimbabweans are commended. We also must reward the informal sector by giving them good business that is lying idle. IDC is sitting on many businesses, so why then do we not say, okay, can you have a consortium?
When we are also looking at this, we should also look at the demographics of the women, youth and the disabled. It is very clear that it is difficult in this country for women to become great business people because of the competition that is there and so forth but within a consortium, they grow and they are given an assert. There are so many businesses that the small to medium enterprise has but we do not see that being channeled towards that they know are contributing to the fiscus of this country. So it is really a double-edged sword and you cannot sustain a double-edged sword. At some point you want a sword to just be a single-edged sword and not a double-edged sword. One minute it is doing well and the other minute it is poking you.
It is therefore important for us with the education and the resources that we have in terms of human resource, statistics must be coming through to really see what their contribution to the GDP is. We are talking about devolution right now. Devolution is critical, Madam Speaker so that you know; on Friday, I have decided to have a GDP programme for Norton. It is going to be the first constituency that is coming up. I brought in five economic professors to say what does Norton contribute to the GDP to the commercial big companies, to the small scale Katanga, durawall, how is business there? Then we understand the role that each player plays at the end of the day.
So without us investing time and finding professionals to do it, it becomes very difficult. The academia is critical in research and development. There is no country that thrives without research and development. What does research and development say about the informal sector today? Is it the way to go or it is not the way to go? What results has it brought? What are the figures? We talk about 60% but we talk about 60% in an economy that is not thriving…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERE): Hon.
Mliswa, please be connected.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you. We talk about 60% in an economy that is not pumping the way that it should. You know Madam Speaker, it is the same as a diet and it is important for Members of Parliament because this is what I learnt at school in sport that your diet is 70/30. 70% is carbohydrates and 30% is protein.
Now when you have a situation where you have 70% of the diet and protein is there, can you say it is a balanced diet? It is not and in fact if there is anything, we encourage athletes to turn the protein into energy. So where it now becomes 70% protein and 30% carbohydrates then you are now using the protein as a source of energy and not the carbohydrates. What I am trying to say here is, you cannot now say that things are going well when a child is only eating porridge, come lunchtime they cook potatoes with soup then come in the evening, they cook rice with peanut butter. The intake there because there is no option, we now need a situation where we have statistics that really tell us because without statistics, we are applauding something which at the end of the day will not take us where we want to go to.
With the resources that Zimbabwe is endowed with, it is everybody’s cry; in fact there are so many resources that some of them are smuggled and we do not even lose sleep when resources are smuggled – this is how rich this country is. We have gold that is leaving the country – how much of that would go to the informal sector? To me, there is the aspect of the laws and this is where I really want to touch.
Hon. Chingosho, your motion is critical.
If you look at Botswana, they have just brought in a law to support its local informal sector people. We have repealed and suspended the Indigenisation and Empowerment Act where today, we are competing with foreigners in terms of the informal sector. The Chinese and Indians are there with us. So what is then left for the people of Zimbabwe? Who is supplying airtime because they come with the resource and that resource they now realised the best way is cash and when they control the informal sector, the money market goes crazy because what they want is their money back in foreign currency. You could blame there and they are not many people who have money to be changing money. That money is coming from people who are foreign, who come in with their foreign currency and what we want is foreign currency; they do not have to go through the RBZ but putting a law to empower people so that the native players of this country must enjoy this field. They have nowhere to go and can only be here.
You know you might say a lot but the late Genius Kadungure, I remember training with him one day and he said, you know people may say a lot about me and if they say I am stealing, at least I am stealing and bringing to Zimbabwe. There is nothing that I am taking out. To me, it is important to also appreciate that we need to have players who benefit who are Zimbabweans and where we have laws; while the informal sector has played a key part in propelling this economy, what has the Government done to come up with a law? They suspend a law saying because of FDI. Statistically if we look at FDI, how much money has come in?
The late Hon. Minister of Foreign and International Trade, Hon.
S.B. Moyo, one of the last times he contributed in this Parliament, it was a point where I asked him to give us a breakdown of the foreign direct investment (FDI) which has come into the country. We are able to make our people suffer, the indigenisation law (49:51) was critical. The whole world had accepted it. Now, if you look at the community share ownership trust where 10% is supposed to go to the local communities, you are pushing for the 10% share certificate because that was money which they were supposed to get. If you look at the platinum houses and gold players, they are making profit. So 10% of that money was supposed to go to the community share owner trust. When it comes to the community share ownership trust, they then come up with programmes which then help their people on the ground, be it agriculture or education where schools are built. We are bemoaning the infrastructure of the schools in our country yet we had an opportunity through the laws to be able to grow even bigger.
All the industry which is happening, the women from the procurement point of view, this is something that they must look at. How many know that 30% of procurement in a company must go to women? Where are they? If a company is not complying with that, it is important to let the women supply tissue, sugar and other small things and grow from there. To me, without an enabling Act or law that protects our people, we are once again speaking yet the people who are running the informal sector, 60% of the informal sector that we spoke about, Zimbabweans are probably 10% of that. That is the reason why you cannot control people who brought in their money and now are in the informal sector. We need to be able to protect people who will propel a country to a certain level.
I want to thank you Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to also thank the mover of this motion and say that the informal sector is very critical but we must see it grow. We must be able to come up with laws that protect them. When we come up with laws that protect them and they make money, we tax them and then they grow. A country only grows when people are paying tax and tax is in the fiscus and then it goes to other areas. Thank you very much for this
opportunity.
(v)HON. TOFFA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. First of all, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Chingosho and also the seconder. As I contribute on this motion at hand, I would like to add my voice on this important sector of our economy. There is a vacuum of the informal sector that provided reliable and constant source of employment, and assured even employed citizens of a steady income for breadwinners to provide adequately for their families needs such as schools fees, access to medical aid, pensions at the time of their retirement so as to be self-sufficient and not to be a burden to the family and members of the community at large.
Madam Speaker, when you look at the informal economy, it has become the backbone of the economy of Zimbabwe. As we speak and as I listened to Hon. Chingosho contributing, talking about taxation of the informal sector, as much as this is a good thing, I think that before we even go that route, we need to first of all recognise the importance of the informal sector and the role that they are playing in the country.
The mover of the motion spoke about presumptive tax and customs duty. This is because the informal sector is cross-cutting in most of the industry in the country. As Hon. Mliswa spoke about agriculture, mining and so on, I think what we need to do as we talk about policy and maybe coming up with an Act to tax the informal sector, we need to first of all as we prepare the formalities of taxing the informal sector, to make sure that the informal sector benefits from their taxation. By this, I mean that from that taxation, a portion or percentage of that taxation must be put -
a tithe into a health fund so that the informal sector has access to medical aid for their families.
Most of the informal sector is run by women who actually take their children to work with them. As we tax, we must not always look at a way of taking from the citizens of Zimbabwe, in particular the informal sector that have sacrificed, screamed and prayed to start their businesses in most instances without the aid of Government and loans. They have worked hard to sustain themselves and their families. It is important Madam Speaker, that some kind of a fund be set aside for the informal sector. Look at the contributions that we are getting from the mining sector. They are the low hanging fruit and one of the highest contributors of the economy yet we always talk about them as though, I mean we call them makorokoza and we call them informal sector. Now because we want to tax them, we have not even thought of the welfare of the informal sector. In essence Madam Speaker Ma’am, I think it is of paramount importance that the informal sector, such as the small to medium enterprises, agricultural sector and the mining sector, their welfare needs to be taken into account.
When I look at the informal sector, in particular, the one in the urban areas as I spoke to earlier on to say that women take children to their areas of work and as they work in the formal sector, you will find that there are no toilets. Women and young girls do not have a place where they can change, for instance, when they are going through their menstrual cycle, they need to change their pads. So, we need to make sure that we provide for the informal sector as we want to tax them. It must be a win-win situation.
This is a very important motion and I am sure as the informal sector listens to us debate, they should be able to appreciate it. We must make them see that we appreciate what they have done because they are filling that vacuum. As I said earlier on when I started to contribute to this motion, they are filling a vacuum that was taken by the formal sector because there is no factory and yet the informal sector is doing its part to help themselves or even help Government play their role. So, in ending my contribution Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to say that before we tax the informal sector, we must sit down with those stakeholders and make sure that due process has been followed and the needs of the informal sector that we want to formalise are taken into account. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am
for this opportunity that you afforded me to add my voice to the motion moved by Hon. Chingosho, seconded by Hon. Kapuya about the informal sector. The informal sector is an important sector in our economy as Zimbabwe. This sector really needs the attention of our Government as to find ways of how to support it so that it can grow in a way. The larger population of our country is in the informal sector.
I am going to look at the issue of the people that are employed in the informal sector. We understand that many of these businesses that are operating informally are also employing other people. The challenge that we have in the informal sector is that the labour issues in that sector are not regulated in any way. Their labour relations with their
employees are not regulated. So, it is a good thing that if the
Government can look into the issue of informal sector, most importantly in the area of labour relations to make sure that those one or two employees in these small businesses are also afforded equal protection of the labour laws in this country. It will be good for our country so that this sector can grow. It is difficult for the informal sector to grow when it is having a number of illegalities that it will be conducting in the operations of their business.
So, I want to support the formalization of this sector so that they will be accountable in many areas, one of which is the labour that I have already mentioned. On the issue of taxes, we understand when we were debating our budget in 2020, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development was talking about presumptive tax; the tax that was supposed to be charged on these informal businesses. Many of these businesses if we were to find out from the Ministry of Finance, we will still find out that they are still not paying that presumptive tax. The Government needs to come up with some mechanisms of how this sector can also contribute to our economy.
It is very important that each operating entity in this country contributes to our economy because wherever they are operating from, they will need infrastructure. Our infrastructure is financed through these taxes. Basically, what it means currently when they are not paying taxes, it means they are enjoying the services and the infrastructure in this country whilst they are not contributing anything. Whatever that they will be getting from their businesses, they will be just be putting in their pockets. If we move around this country Madam Speaker Ma’am, we see a lot of developments that are going on but if you go around and ask to say who is building this house, you will hear that maybe he is doing a small business somewhere. Then you will ask yourself a question to say, with that small business, how are you managing to build such a mansion. You will realise that this person is also not paying tax.
At the same time, where you are building your house, you need services, you need water, roads and other social amenities, but there is no way that you can get those social amenities when you are not paying your tax.
So, I want to encourage our Central Government that they need to take this subject very seriously and they must take it to the informal sector and give them education on the importance of supporting the economy. There is no way a business can operate successfully in an economy that is also not performing. You will end up wondering how these people are doing their business.
I want also to touch on the issue of infantry industry protection. Here in Zimbabwe, if you go for instance like where they call down down here in Harare, in those places you find there a lot of foreigners who are operating “tuckshops” in that area. There are a lot of people and they are making huge amounts of money there. However, if you look at the income they are getting from there, that income is not accounted for in our economy. Where is that money going? If you can put the whole money that they are making in down town, you will realise that they are making millions and millions but this money is not accounted for in our economy. I would want to encourage our
Government that they must find a way of protecting our own citizens. When you are dealing with your local people or your own citizens, it is very easy to deal with them and they will understand some of these issues that we are talking about but if our industries are open even to foreigners to do some of these small businesses, then some of our local people will not be in a position to compete. So, for our people to be in a position to compete, I want to encourage the Government to try and come up with policies on how to protect the infant industry. Thank you.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this very important debate. I realise no one has greeted you since you sat on the Chair. Good afternoon Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Good
afternoon.
HON. MUNETSI: I have been thinking deeply about this debate and I want to thank the presenter of the motion Hon. Chingosho and the seconder. I want to thank them for coming up with such a wonderful motion that would help us as a Government to assist and come up with ideas on how to help people in this country. I was looking at the definition of informal economy and I discovered that it is some form of economy that is neither taxed nor monitored by Government. There is no tax, there is no monitoring, so people are just operating haphazardly. There is no regulation in the informal sector and there is no protection whatsoever. It is casual work; you just go by what comes by the day.
Now, you discover that informal sectors have their own advantages and they also have multitude of disadvantages. I am so happy that this debate has come so that Government can fit itself in the informal sector. I was shocked when you said we are number two after Bolivia to have people operating informally. That is quite a big number and I have no English equivalent to explain that. The informal sector has got its own effects, coming from the word informal. The informal sector has no access to financial institutions because they do not have any form of collateral security, none whatsoever and no one would want to give money to them so that they can grow within the limits of Government. They grow by themselves. They have very limited access, no collateral, no financial records; they just get their money, put in their pockets and go home. They have no succession plan, they cannot plan, may be when they are at home. They have high rentals at work places, they have no Government regulations which they follow and there is no social protection. They are the same people who are affected greatly by political activists. They have no decent space to operate on. They have no policy to encourage them to grow. They are just picking ideas about informal sectors.
Now, those who operate in the informal sector, they make a lot of money because they do not pay tax. At times their salaries are very good because when you are given your salary, you do not pay tax but they lack the security that a person needs to survive. I am talking of places like Mupedzanhamo, Magaba, Glen View Area 8, Mbare Msika et cetera where people do informal business. There is no security in their businesses. They do not have formal policies like Nyaradzo, Doves for their burials. It is coming in now because the companies are trying to get to them but at a very slow pace. Informal sectors can hire and dismiss their workers willy-nilly, no one can query them. There is no insurance. The goods that they have are not insured, there is no protection. I want to believe that Government can assist these people by formalising what they are doing.
Madam Speaker, if they can make it easy for informal traders to join the Government structures, they will join just by simply formalising their jobs. They register their companies, then they plan a very formal wage. They extent some good benefits to those informal traders, benefits which are also enjoyed by people who are formally employed. If they simplify such things, it will be easier for informal traders to join the mainstream. If companies would want to be registered and it takes ages and a lot of money, then even myself I would prefer to trade informally because I will be pumping out money in order to join the mainstream. So, if certain regulations are relaxed, if they are given enough space or the space which they have is simply regularised and it becomes their space, something like that, they can join the mainstream.
Madam Speaker, if they are also accorded some support in form of
Incentives to import and export what they want just to relax some of the rules, it will assist the Government to get tax and the economy will grow. We need to do it in order to avoid corruption. Some things that are sold in the informal sector come from the formal business simply because when I take it there and you do not see me taking it there, it is sold there and I get all my money there – simple. If we just relax rules, formalise everything, it will make us avoid corruption and then the Government comes in to assist those people then the informal sector will grow the economy of this country.
HON. DR. KHUPE: I would also like to add my voice to the motion which is being discussed and has to do with the informal sector. I would like to prefix my contribution by alluding to the fact that the informal sector can contribute to the fiscus but can only do so if they are supported financially. Zimbabwe is highly informalised with more than five million people in the informal sector. Out of the five million people,
78% are women. I would like to look at the Women’s Bank and Empower Bank – the youth bank.
When we started the idea of a stand-alone Women’s Bank, we were looking at a bank which was going to be operated in line with the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh where women are not asked for collateral, interest rates are very low and repayment periods are longer. If we look at our own Women’s Microfinance bank, women are asked for collateral, interests rate are very high and repayments periods are very long – same with the Youth Empower bank. As we were going around during the feedback sessions, women and youth were telling us that they were not borrowing money from these banks because they cannot afford the loans. They are very expensive. These two banks were allocated each US$37.5 million to enable women and youth to borrow money so that they are able to grow their businesses from micro to small, small to medium and medium to large enterprises. When their businesses get to large enterprises, they will contribute to the fiscus. They can be formalised such that Government will collect corporate tax and income tax because many people will be employed and have buying power. Let us look at what is happening right now. Most of the informal sectors are operating at micro level.
Statistics have shown that if you lend money to women, they will work very hard and will repay their loans, hence if you look at the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, it is sitting on billions of US$. Government and corporates are borrowing from this bank. That is the reason we came up with the idea of a stand-alone women’s bank so that women would have access to capital in order for them to be able to grow their businesses from micro to small, small to medium and medium to large enterprises. Whilst their businesses become large, they will be able to produce more people and Government will collect tax, hence contribute to the fiscus.
What is happening at the moment is that the Women’s
Microfinance Bank and Youth Empower Bank were each allocated
US$37.5 but as we were going around, women and youth were telling us that they are unable to borrow that money because the loans are very expensive. The few that have borrowed, their properties are about to be attached because they were used as collateral. We are looking at a situation where collateral is not demanded in the traditional banking sense but rather they should harness the trustworthiness of women as an asset in business, which is what is happening in Bangladesh so that many women and youths borrow money – work hard, grow their businesses and pay back those loans.
I would like to urge the Ministry of Women and Youth Affairs to have a relook at the Youth Empower Bank and the Women’s
Microfinance Bank in terms of the conditions that are required. They must make sure that they operate in line with the Grameen Bank. We must copy from what other countries are doing because those banks are very successful and more people are borrowing money and growing their businesses. Like I said, 78% of people in the informal sector are women. Women are doing wonders but if they were to be supported together with the youth, this country’s economy will grow because they will be able to produce and employ more people. Right now, nobody is able to do anything. If anything, they have been reduced to paupers. Some of them have closed their businesses and some have remained at micro level for years; they are at the ground – they cannot even do anything.
It is important that these banks are looked into because as long as you do not support the informal sector, there is no way you can ask for money from the informal sector when you are not supporting them. Let them be supported. Once they have access to capital, they will be able to grow their businesses and produce. My plea is that we should have a relook at the Women’s Bank and the Youth Empower Bank to allow our youths and women to borrow cheap money. I know they will be able to produce and pay back the loans but right now that is impossible.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. I am
delighted and at the same time saddened by the fact that we no longer have jobs in this country. A lot of companies closed down and most people where left jobless. People are in their homes. It is better for some who are still employed because some can gather in groups and have something to do. If you go to Meikles Hotel along Third Street, you will see a lot of people selling vegetables and fruits. These people are from Domboshava, Makumbe and other areas. Some of the women carry babies on their backs. I feel deeply concerned but at the same time disturbed because once the rain season kicks in and if the police descend on the informal traders, women bear the brunt as they are arrested and loaded into the police vehicles. That is saddening Madam Speaker because those who sell their wares in alleys are better off because in English they say half a loaf is better than nothing.
Madam Speaker if you were to take a tour of the buildings that you find down town, there are people who are taking these buildings and possessing them. My own niece who is struggling and wanting to sell second hand clothes is expected to pay a fee of US$5 a day. That person is not able to do anything else besides getting the US$5 to enable them to trade the next day where another US$5 is required. Are we also looking into that because Madam Speaker for one to survive he/she has to exploit the other but the woman who spends the whole day selling wares is just wondering where the US$5 for the next day will come from.
A lot has been said. We are debating this motion during this COVID-19 period. These people do not have the adequate preventive measures for COVID-19. They mingle a lot as they order and sell their goods. No-one really cares whether one is vaccinated or whether one has sanitizers. That is one of the issues we need to look into because health is important. The issue of the rights of the workers has already been debated that they do not have any legislation that protects them.
That is revenue that remains untapped.
If these people are equipped with machinery and equipment this can be obtained through a loan system. Once someone takes a loan, they will ensure they work hard to pay off the loan. I am talking about women who sell tomatoes, guavas, vegetables etcetera, for them to value add their products into juices or tinned foods. These value added goods even have a lifespan of more than a year because currently we see that we have tinned foods well stocked in all supermarkets, but very little of it is produced by the locals.
My request is that the Minister of Industry and Commerce and that of Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development should embark on research and gather the relevant data on the number of people in the sector as well as their locations. If you are to leave this place – we were in Mutare recently and from Ruwa everyone is selling tomatoes and the same can be said of the Domboshava highway. If equipment is availed for value addition, most cross borders will no longer import goods from South Africa but they will order what we will have produced.
Hon. Speaker, this year the farming season was favourable. However, if we are not careful, the informal – we all buy tomatoes and vegetables from the streets so these people should be assisted for them to be in good health and a source of livelihood to ensure that what they are selling and where they are operating from is conducive enough not to cause health hazards. I am talking of availability of water to drink and use and other sanitation facilities. It is sad that tomatoes are just spread on the pavements over a spread cloth and we just buy despite the dust.
A vendor selling vegetables may have taken protective measures against COVID but what of the buyer. Is that person protected? Those are issues that we need to take into consideration.
I also think we need to look at the budget so that when we craft the budget, we need an item that provides for informal traders to receive grants for them to sustain themselves through buying and selling. At the end of the day, there should be sustainability. Being poor does not mean one is dead but assistance is needed for one to be able to assist the nation as well. These people can even be able to get more money to pay taxes to government because our government survives on these taxes and exports.
I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this motion because it is a motion that affects mostly women and the youth. This year most students did not pass their examinations. They are surviving on selling airtime and phones in the CBD. They are the same people who are selling chargers as we pass through in our cars.
We need to come up with programmes for those youths and conscientise them that street trading is not right. This is only possible if we avail adequate vending sites through the programmes where their dignity and rights are upheld. We are now in the winter season and they need protection from the cold. They will then be protected from police harassment, of which most of the affected are women. I thank you.
(v) HON. WATSON: Thank you Mr Speaker for giving me this opportunity to express my thoughts and views on the motion by Hon. Chingosho. It is a very important motion in terms of the Zimbabwean economy, but I have a slightly different view about how we are generalising about the informal sector. I think the informal sector exists in three separate sections which are the small industries and places like Glenview where furniture is manufactured and where there are labour issues. Then you have the artisanal mining sector which is again another variation, then the ordinary street vendors who are out there selling their wares on our streets and simply trying to survive.
It is my thoughts that the informal sector came about through the hyper inflation which resulted in the development of poverty levels and instability in the country which, to some extent remains and for me, that is where we go when we discuss taxation and the informal sector not paying tax or whether they should pay tax. The problem is that there is a feeling that they earn a lot of money. Perhaps there are a few who do, but I think there are a lot who actually barely survive on what they make vending.
So we need deep examination and know facts and figures. We do not know enough about the volumes, conditions, the earnings and location of the entire informal sector that is supposed to represent 80% to 90% of our so called economy. If we want the economy to grow, for me that is about recreating industry and we will recreate industries in Zimbabwe by just looking at the informal sector. We want the fiscus to grow and for the fiscus to grow the economy has to grow. Growing taxation in itself is not an indication that the economy has grown, it is an indication of scrapping a barrel.
A couple of years ago the Minister of Finance Hon Prof Ncube, redenominated our GDP and one of the examples that he gave was all the mshika mshika, the Honda Fits on our roads be removed. As a formation of capital, that might have been the case then. Those people are now effectively, illegally in business and out of business. Now you have to ask yourself, where are those people and what are they doing now in order to make a living to survive and support their families. We really are talking about something that we have not examined in great depth and I do agree with Hon Khupe that access to financing and understanding of it is not within our grasp at the moment. We have not created that situation with the Women’s Bank or Empowerment Bank. It has not really happened. We need to formalise.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Mr Speaker Sir, for giving the opportunity to contribute towards the motion introduced by Hon Chingosho. I would want to say that Government must be seen to support the informal sector in order to promote growth in the economy. The informal sector is easy to set up. One wakes up with an idea and they get on to it the next day without going through the registration process because it creates opportunities for people that would like to do whatever they would like to do to support their families. There is no need for registration, thereby cutting the bureaucratic red tape which we find affecting most of the companies that need to register and start operation. You think of an idea and the next day you are on it.
The informal sector creates opportunities for local citizens to contribute towards the growth of the economy. I would want to urge, Government to put regulations which stop certain areas of the informal sector being run by foreign citizens like transport, tuckshops and other small things being reserved solely for competing against foreigners who might have funding from their countries of origin. I would also urge from an administrative point of view, the formalisation of the informal sector by putting regulatory and administrative policies and procedures to support the informal sector by regulating the way they operate, and promoting all legal activities and areas in which they operate by providing formal ways of financing the informal sector.
I would urge along those lines, the creation of no matata loans. No matata here means it is not a problem. You walk into the bank like the Women’s Bank with an idea which is assessed and is seen to be feasible, you walk into a bank today, you make an application and the next two or three days, the money is out without having to produce the collateral. Most of our people do not have collateral. The women and youth, where do they get the collateral before they start operating. I would urge Government to make sure that they provide a clear way of financing the informal sector so that people who have a productive idea can be supported. We should support the informal sector by providing training schemes in different sectors in which they operate like farming, gardening or manufacturing of shoes. Government must be seen going into the informal sector to identify different sectors and say here are the skills which you can use to improve your production. Such ways will ensure the informal sector will start to produce goods and services which are competitive with those in the formal sector.
I would like to urge Government to find the market for the products and services coming out of the informal sector because some of them produce but they are not able to sell their products or services because Government is not helping them to get out there and grab the market. I was at Zimtrade the other day and they had trinkets from Lupane, Checheche and Birimahwe which they had taken and they were telling us that these trinkets had a variable market in Europe. If we organise these in such a way that we find the market for them and make sure that we collect the trinkets and sell them out there, not just that because they earn foreign currency but they will make the informal sector grow bigger into medium scale or large scale businesses.
Finally, I would like to urge Government to formalise the makorokoza sector of the economy where people are mining without licences and we hear that the police or army will get there and say you do not have licences, give us your gold and you have been arrested. Government must endeavour to formalise those sectors because they are contributing a lot to the mining sector. So, I urge Government to ensure that licences are given to the smallest informal miner who is trying to mine whatever it is. They must be given licences in order for them to operate without being threatened with arrest. I thank you.
HON. PETER MOYO: I would like to thank the two Hon
Members for coming up with such a very noble motion. Let me first say that I am really flabbergasted by the behaviour of the Women’s Bank. The Women’s Bank demands collateral from women who have never worked and are from school. I will give you a typical example that happened in my constituency. These women applied for a certain development to take place and I gave them my own property to start from. On the forms, they were requested to produce or to bring collateral in the form of title deeds. Where do you expect a woman who is from selling tomatoes to have acquired a certain piece of land to develop? Where do you expect that woman to get title deeds from?
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Women’s Bank does not serve any purpose as it stands. I suspect that those who are politically connected are the ones who are benefitting from the Women’s Bank or those employees are connected somewhere somehow and then they fund their relatives or cronies to get these loans because the ordinary woman in Zimbabwe is suffering and cannot get that money. As Members of Parliament, we give the Women’s Bank money to distribute to Zimbabweans so that they also contribute in the economy of our country but alas these women who are working at the Women’s Bank need to be scrutinised Mr.
Speaker Sir.
When I visited their offices as a Member of Parliament representing those women, I hardly found anyone in the office – you are asked to book. A Member of Parliament is advised to book to see a director who is hardly in the office – maybe that person will be busy farming or doing something else that has got nothing to do with the
Women’s Bank. I therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, propose that the Auditor-
General’s Office intervenes and audits the systems of the Women’s
Bank. The Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprise Development came to Parliament and eloquently gave responses that are none existent on the ground.
Mr. Speaker Sir, these ministers are good at answering questions but there is no action on the ground. I think that the Presidium must whip them, fire them and put competent people. We do not want this kind of thing of writing proper vernacular and a lot of useless jargon that does not produce any result. We want ministers who are pro-active and ministers who are sensitive to what is happening in our economy. The informal sector Mr. Speaker Sir, is the way to go the world-over. You do not expect Lever Brothers to employ people who are coming from school; you do not expect that but this is happening everywhere.
Government is losing a lot of money through the informal sector because it is not formalised. You go to Mbare Musika in the morning to the bus termini – you will find thousands of United States Dollars in people’s pockets, money that is not even going to the fiscus. Therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, I humbly request your good office to instruct the
Auditor-General to conduct a forensic audit in the operations of the Women’s Bank. We are tired of ministers who come to Parliament to give vague Ministerial Statements that are not happening on the ground. What they are answering, most of the ministers answer questions properly in Parliament but when you go on the ground, it is absolutely zero – there is nothing. How do you expect our country to move forward with such people?
I asked the Minister of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprise Development, Hon. Sithembiso Nyoni and she responded very well. I thought that was happening on the ground yet there is nothing. Therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, I really request your good office as a matter of urgency, because this motion is very important and as Parliament, we must be found working and having teeth to bite. So the Auditor-General, as a matter of urgency, must audit the Women’s Bank and if the Minister responsible cannot whip these people, she should resign. Otherwise she has to fire the entire board of the
Women’s Bank because it is useless and does not serve any purpose. Our people are suffering out there yet they have brilliant ideas but nobody is assisting them.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Watson was nailing it and therefore thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for the time that you gave me. This is a topical issue that can drive our economy. I thank you.
HON. MAVETERA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity. I also want to thank Hon. Moyo who spoke of very critical issues for us going forward. Let me first start by thanking Hon. Chingosho and Hon. Raidza for coming up with this motion.
Hon. Speaker Sir, when you look at this motion, it really speaks to the young people, a constituency that is very close to my heart. I am going to speak about it even though I know I am going to be speaking about issues that I think will be a bit digressing but there is no way Hon. Speaker that we can then be able to speak of the economy especially the informal sector if we are not going to speak about the young people.
Hon. Speaker Sir, let me first start by bringing a background to this whole issue. We know we really appreciate where we are as a country and really appreciate all the efforts that our Government is putting in place to make sure that at least they address issues of the young people and let me also be able to applaud what His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa is doing towards even compositing or constituting most of the critical spaces of this economy. Mr. Speaker Sir, let me speak on this issue of why we have a highly informal sector. This is because we also have a high unemployment rate in the country. The reason why this is so Hon. Speaker Sir, is because indeed young people are unemployed but for us to be speaking about young people not being employed and not getting solutions, I think we are doing a disservice to ourselves.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I feel that it is important for us to be looking at NDS1which speaks of three critical sectors that the economy is supposed to be founding on and these include mining, agriculture and tourism. When I look at these three sectors, I will start with agriculture – I really want to applaud the efforts that Government is currently doing towards making sure that at least as young people we are to be benefiting from the land and this land is the land that is supposed to be allocated or re-allocated after a land audit has taken place.
The question that I have right now is we are now calling upon even the Minister of Agriculture to be able to give us a list of the young people that have managed to benefit from this land. It is critical because if you look at it and we always say it, when land was distributed, we were still in school and we could not benefit as youths. Let me also say be it the claims, most of the claims that are there are housed or part of the people that are much older than we are because when those claims were done we still in school. Let me speak again on the tourism sector, we really appreciate and right now I will speak of Wedza where there are new falls which were discovered, which I greatly appreciate for we see that indeed as a country there are new things that we are getting going forward.
Mr. Speaker, as much as we have got a high informal sector I think it is also important for us to be able to look at the prices that are there in terms of taxes. Right now, I really want to approve and also appreciate what we got as a country whereby we realise that, especially in the last budget, we had the $30 presumptive tax which was supposed to be paid but when I look at it, do you think we are capable to be getting this $30 youth incentive as the informal sector or maybe we need to be able to look at a minimum figure and go forward and start raising the figure as we go.
Even if you look at it as it is, we also have the youth employment tax incentive. My question then comes to the Minister of Youth and say, how many young people have managed to be employed by that? We are saying this is part of the taxes that Hon. Raidza and Hon. Chingosho were talking about. As much as it, the incentives which are been given for employing the young people, my question is where are we as the young people. How many young people have been employed by the youth tax incentive and there is need for us to be getting these numbers so that we know how many people are been employed so that we know how many are going to be decreasing from the informal sector that we have.
Let me also speak of the $500 million that we got from the last budget which is supposed to go to the Youth Empower Bank. My question especially on the Youth Empower Bank - I appreciate that it has been decentralised, which is quite good for us but the issue that I think we are actually having is that of a lot of bureaucracy. If I tell you the issue of the Empower Bank whereby you realise that the money is there and is being availed to the young people and we greatly appreciate but the bureaucracy for you to be able to access that money. I understand there is a requirement whereby you are supposed to be having a guarantor. Let me applaud them for that. You submit the name of your guarantor so that you access this money which is good but the process, whereby today you are going to go with a project proposal, tomorrow you need to take some assessors then you need to continue going and taking these assessors. Tomorrow again you need to go and show this
guarantor.
Mr. Speaker, there is need for us to reduce this red tape if we are going to be going forward as a country. We really appreciate that the bank was put there for the young people, the same with the Women’s Bank. What we are saying is there is need for us to be addressing the issue of us getting loans in terms of the informal business that we are into. If we are going to be getting these loans,we are calling upon - for us to be able to be getting this, not really on a silver platter but I think we need to be able to reduce the bureaucracy which is involved.
Let me say again that I think it is important for us as a country; we have had the Money Laundering Act which came into play which we greatly appreciate, which was quite specific to money changers. We are saying if ever we are going to make sure that we capacitate the formal sector, then what it means is that is even the informal itself will actually not be prevalent because at the end of the day the young people are getting into formal things. Not that I am saying it is good to be involved in changing money, but like what Hon. Kapuya said and it was quite clear when he said it, he went to say most of us here are involved in illegal things. Not because we want to get involved in illegal things which I should say very clearly, but the issue is we get involved indirectly. The reason has been that, we will not be having clear measures that would allow us to be able to access the formal. So we need to make sure that this environment is set for the young people to be able to access all this going forward.
As I conclude, I think there is another sector which I think is also critical especially for us to get land to operate in, even commercial stands. As it stands right now, we do not have adequate funds which are currently there as young people to be able to access commercial stands. So if possible through the Minister of Housing and Social Amenities, we hope that as young people we will then be able to access land that will be cheaper or which has got some terms so that we will be able to get into the informal sector. Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for all these efforts that are there, but as young people the solutions that are there are for us to be able to make sure that we accommodate all of us so that we will be able to contribute towards this economy going forward. Thank you.
(v)HON. R. NYATHI: Mr. Speaker, I want to also add my voice on the motion that was given by Hon. Chingosho and many other Hon. Members that have debated before me. First of all, I would like to thank the SMEs for the great work that they have done in order to keep Zimbabwe’s wheels lubricated. Even during the COVID-19 period, if you look at it Mr. Speaker Sir, we have SMEs that are hardworking and because of their hard work, I foresee that the vision of the President, Vision 2030 will be achieved.
Why do I say so? There is a saying that says love little things because little things have a propensity to grow. So, I foresee that if we give much effort to support the SMEs business it means that come 2030, we will be having a lot of big organisations in Zimbabwe. I want to say Zimbabwe has got the highest number of SMEs if you compare our populace to the number of people that are doing their own business, I think that Zimbabwe is doing quite fair and if we have a favourable condition in our country, there is every reason that after five years from now, much of our small business enterprises will be quite big and thereby be able to provide the much needed employment and the growth that we are looking forward to in our industry.
I also want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe through the wisdom our President, Cde E.D Mnangagwa, where we brought about such projects like the Dutch ovens that we saw a lot of our women going into projects that sustained them and that saw them through the most difficult times as we were going through the COVID-19 and at a time at which our country did not receive much rain, and we were going through drought seasons and those projects really helped. Even now as we speak, we also acknowledge the vision that was given through the Pfumvudza Programme which I think our country is completely out of poverty if we saved the much needed foreign currency because we are no longer going to import maize and other cereals that we normally import every year. I also want to comment on the vision that was given in bringing about the Women’s Bank and Empower Bank, the benefits that they have also given to communities including the women and youths.
Yes, there is another Hon. Member who has spoken about how these banks are now operating professionally. I will not argue on that point but what I know is that those people that came up with that idea, the idea behind it is very solid and good and it is good for our community and our country. I also want to give a testimony Mr.
Speaker Sir, that you recall sometime at the close of the year, His
Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa came to Gweru to open up a special programme that was intended by the Women’s Bank to give women some mining equipment of which Shurugwi North Constituency got the highest number of women that were given these mining equipment. Right now as we speak, many of those women have grown up and managed to provide bread and butter for their children, and their children are going to school. Some of them have already started doing some programmes of purchasing and so forth, so that programme is really paying in Shurugwi North. I also want to thank the President and Government for coming up with such programmes. There are very good schemes that I want to encourage my fellow Hon. Members to also implore and take such programmes in their
constituencies.
However, Mr. Speaker Sir, I also want to comment on small scale miners. I speak so because Shurugwi North has got a lot of mining activities and I have an idea as to the difficulties that small scale miners are going through. I think that the number of charges that are being leveled against small scale miners are quite big so much that at the end of the mining period or the end of the month, they will carry very little money home. If you look at what the rural district council takes from a miner and what EMA is taking, the small tax that also Fidelity is taking and even nowadays that the miner deposit gold at Fidelity, Fidelity has gone back whereby you deposit today, you do not get your money today, you get it after a week or so which is not very good for small scale miners because they will not be able to go back and do their work.
You also see Mr. Speaker that they also have unforeseeable expenses that an ordinary person is not able to see. This person digs holes into the ground for a long period of time maybe 3 to 4 holes for a period of a month or two and when he starts to extract the gold, he would have gone through a very tiresome and expensive period and a number of expenses, including explosives, hiring other people to help and things to cater for. When you start to reap, then the taxes that you are to pay become too big. One of the Hon. Members mentioned the process on how these people must be given some mining licences. Even when you go to provincial mining director’s office, you will find that the processes in which one should get a licence is also very tiresome and difficult. They are still using a system whereby when you apply and they think that the area is very lucrative, there could be some minerals there, you might find that the moment that you apply, you find somebody coming in the evening saying this is already my area. So, I think that also needs a bit of monitoring Hon. Speaker Sir
I want to comment on the last point Hon. Speaker Sir. Some other Hon. Member has commented about the commuter omnibuses. You will realise that Hon. Speaker Sir, the commuter omnibus drivers and operators used to give us a lot of revenue. They have a process of applying for licences and they are also required to pay taxes and that was done every month. Nowadays as we speak, there has been a shift whereby if you have some commuter omnibuses, you are told that if you do not have any authority from ZUPCO, you are not going to be operating. I think that we have thousands of people that have got some commuter omnibuses and medium buses like 30 seater and some have got some 42 seater. It means you are already driving those people out of business.
The Government must see that our small scale business persons are promoted in order for them to grow. I want to say Hon. Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to also air my views on areas where I think that the relevant ministers that are listening to me and those that have got the SMES that I have discussed about also look into it and try to improve in those areas so that come 2030, we will be having many of our SMEs that will be fully fledged. I thank you Mr. Speaker. *HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. A lot has been said. I want to thank Hon. Chingosho for bringing this debate into the House. Mr. Speaker, those people who sell zapnacks are people who live far below the poverty datum line. They find peace towards election and it is their wish if elections were to be held every six months because that is the only time they are allowed to sell freely and get some money. The Government must know that it is the right of its citizens to sell and fend for their families. These people do not want to be rich or get anything else. They sell just to get some food so that they can survive. I am appealing to Government to see what they can do with these people. I receive phone calls from Rusape that people have been arrested. When you ask them why they were arrested, the charge is that they were selling in the streets. Sometimes they are put in cells over night and their goods are taken and asked to pay fines.
The majority of people are suffering Hon. Speaker. Police officers are the ones that are benefiting taking bribes. I was suggesting that the Government should enact laws that these people be allowed to vend because currently there are no jobs in the country. The Government does not have the capacity to put these jobless people under Social Welfare as what happens with other countries and hence these people are fending for themselves. This money that is given to police through bribes will go a long way in helping Government if it enacts a law that will allow vendors to vend and they pay a small fee to Government. We applied for money from SEDCO, no one got those monies except the top people. I also came from the informal sector and I am better because I am now paying tax. I never got any loan all my life because of collateral. Indigenisation is benefitting a few people even though we cannot mention their names. The money was being misused and no one benefited from it. There should be a law that allows informal traders to be given open spaces where they can sell their wares. If they are given a place where they can sell their groceries, they will compete with such big supermarkets like OK because they will be on their own and their prices will be good. There should be a legislation which protects the informal traders from being sued by the police every now and then because we do not have jobs. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day Nos. 15 to 16 be stood over until Order of the Day No. 17 has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. SIBUSISO BUSI
MOYO
HON. RAIDZA:I move the motion standing in my name that this House expresses its profound sorrow on the untimely passing on of the late Senator for Midlands Province and Minister for Foreign Affairs and
International Trade, Hon. Sen. Sibusiso Busi Moyo.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
HON. RAIDZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity regarding the passing on of Rtd. Lt. Gen. Dr. S. B. Moyo who was the Senator for Midlands Province and also Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Rtd. Lt. Gen. Dr. S. B. Moyo was a man who contributed to the liberation of Zimbabwe. He sacrificed himself from a tender age. We are told that he left his education in 1977 to pursue the liberation struggle and we are told that even after independence, he continued working for the development of Zimbabwe in the military and he did exploits. He was promoted several times and was given different tasks which were great.
He was a genius looking at what he did until he was made a
General. Eventually in 2017, we all remember that that is when the Second Republic was born, which is being led by His Excellency President E. D. Mnangagwa. We saw that General Moyo among others worked hard. We saw him on television announcing that things were being restored. We also noticed that he was dedicated to resuscitating the economy of Zimbabwe and to making sure Zimbabwe’s legacy is restored. After the operation, we also noted that His Excellency the
President, E. D. Mnangagwa believed in Hon. Rtd. Lt. Gen. Sen. Dr. S.
- Moyo and he appointed him Minister of Foreign Affairs and
International Trade. We all know that this was a critical time for Zimbabwe and it was really difficult for Zimbabwe to re-engage with other countries but Hon. S. B. Moyo worked hard in his endeavours for re-engagement. We saw him moving around the globe engaging different diplomats, working towards re-engagement efforts on behalf of His Excellency the President. This means that he was committed to the development of Zimbabwe.
As Mberengwa East, we feel the loss of our national hero. As a new Member of Parliament, I was not familiar with a lot of procedures but he used to educate us, assisting us with resources for different projects in Mberengwa. For example, in Mberengwa East where I come from, there are a number of places which benefited from the Late Senator S.B Moyo’s efforts. At Mbuya Nehanda, there was no internet connection. We know Government had such an initiative but the Late Senator S.B Moyo took it upon himself to identify this particular school so that children are taught how to use and operate modern technology. The development did not just benefit school children but it also benefited teachers, business people and school authorities.
Looking at water reticulation in Mberengwa, you will discover that he worked hard in his quest to provide water in Mberengwa East and the rest of Mberengwa. He was a man who had passion for educating children. This culminated in him paying school fees for a lot of vulnerable children. He even went a step further. He would say that Government is doing this but as an individual, I desire to assist more vulnerable children so that Zimbabwe generates graduates.
The late Senator S.B. Moyo did a lot of things in our community. He started a number of projects, for example, “kutsanana” which is a project which was aimed at housing women going for maternity. He did not choose whether to assist men or women but in this case in
Mberengwa, he targeted all clinics with mothers’ shelters or “kutsanana” so that women benefit from such programmes. These are some of the initiatives that were introduced by Hon. S.B. Moyo.
There is a bridge which is called Kujeka which he was passionate about. At one point, he came to Mberengwa and we drove to this bridge and saw the developments that were happening. He was a committed patriot; a man who could sit down with other people and discuss developmental issues. As Mberengwa, we feel the great loss as a result of the passing on of Hon. Senator S. B Moyo. We say may his soul rest in peace. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. CHIKUKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have a few
words that I would like to share, supporting what the previous speaker was saying regarding the passing on of our national hero, Hon. Sen. Rtd.
Gen. S.B. Moyo. I heard what the Hon. Member said, particularly talking about Mberengwa but I would like to talk about my experience in this august House. What I learnt was, firstly when asked some people would say that I did not go to school because I participated in the liberation struggle. However, the late Hon. Sen. Rtd Gen. S.B Moyo went to school after the liberation struggle and he excelled. When he was appointed, I felt inspired because of what he did by empowering himself through education.
I also learnt that he was a person who was humble. He was very humble and he could work with other people. Mr. Speaker Sir, most of us when appointed to higher positions, we sometimes do not humble ourselves. At times, we would aspire for people to polish our shoes but not the late Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo, he was very humble. I also learnt that when he was appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, when you would see him speaking, he would become emotional because he was a man who was passionate about his country.
The previous speaker spoke about the Second Republic. During that time, he was one of the people who united all political parties in the country, which culminated in unity across the political divide. This taught me that people can unite regardless of political affiliation. The last point, I would like to say that what I learnt by observing his lifestyle is the humility which was a significant attribute in his life. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to add my voice to the motion which was brought by Hon. Raidza. I learnt a lot from the late Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo. We heard Hon. Raidza saying that the late Hon. Senator S.B. Moyo left secondary education at a tender age but this did not end there. Now, it is up to us as young people and those who are of school going age to learn that despite the fact that he left school at Form Three, he managed to come back and go back to school until he attained a PhD. So, it does not matter whether you left school at Grade 7 going to join the liberation struggle, what you need to learn is that we can continuously empower ourselves.
The other point is that Hon. S.B. Moyo was a true patriot who was passionate about developing Zimbabwe through different initiatives.
Even when he was in the Army, he used to lead Operation Maguta. This demonstrates that he was passionate about food security.
Looking at Mberengwa Constituency, we learnt that he did a lot of developmental projects at Mataga Growth Point, where young people were being taught vocational skills. He also worked on road infrastructure in that particular area from Buchwa to Ngungumbane because his desire was to tar this road so that the road infrastructure will be improved. This is what he desired deep down in his heart. So, we need to continue remembering him for the good work that he did.
We are also told that he was passionate about the provision of water. For example, at Jeka Clinic, he installed piped water in that area. He also wanted to empower young people, he wanted to draw them from the streets, from being involved in unproductive activities and he engaged them in different productive ways like supporting football in this area. We also continue remembering him for the good things that he did in Midlands. As Midlands, we lost an icon. I thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir.
*HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I also want to add my voice to the debate raised by Hon. Raidza and seconded by Hon. Chikukwa. I was not aware that Hon. S. B. Moyo comes from Mberengwa. I used to think that he comes from our area because he was very humble. When I was a Provincial Administrator in Mashonaland East, there was the land distribution exercise and Hon. S. B. Moyo would come and would stand in the queue. He wanted land but I did not know that he was a very senior person in the Army until he came to where I was and he introduced himself. I was surprised by his humility.
Mr. Speaker, through his humility, he got a big farm in Goromonzi. At that farm, he demonstrated that he was capable. When you go to his farm, you will discover that he was a master farmer. Then coming to elections in 2018, the Goromonzi constituents had nominated him to be their Member of Parliament because of how he worked with people until he stated that he wanted to stand in his rural constituency, otherwise people of Goromonzi Constituency had suggested that he became their
Member of Parliament.
When he was appointed the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, I appreciated the appointment because I knew that he deserved that position. He was good at it. The point raised by the previous speaker of passionate, like you noted, sometime back when he was out of the country, he was attacked by the people who were jealousy. They did npt lie what he said in defence of his country. His death was a tragedy loss to the nation. With these few words, I would like to say that may his soul rest in peace. I thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution. To me the late Senator S. B. Moyo who was from Midlands is a man I got to know when he announced Operation Restore Legacy. It takes courage to do what he did but when we saw him speaking, we got assurance that everything was okay. Every time I saw him in this august House, I used to go and say how are you my brother because we share the moyo totem. He was very humble and would associate with people, he was not selective. He was comfortable to discuss issues with Hon. Members of this House.
I saw him at one point when he was not feeling well then he said may you remove your mask so that I identify you, we continued joking. When I was seated there, I was just thinking that Hon. S. B. Moyo passed on as a result of COVID-19. This pandemic took many national heroes and it pains that it was not possible to attend his funeral because of COVID-19 restrictions but I believe that his spirit is in this august
House and wherever he is, I believe that he hears us.
My plea is that he continues looking upon Zimbabwe, the achievements that we attained through Operation Restore Legacy. His efforts on reengagement improve the country’s image. I believe there are a lot of things that he managed to achieve and this was supposed to culminate in Zimbabwe rejoining the Commonwealth and other international platforms. So, his desire was that Zimbabwe attains its former glory. I would like to say to the family of the late Hon. Sen. S. B. Moyo, we are together. We will continuously mourn him. May his soul rest in peace. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on this motion.
(V)*HON. PETER MOYO: I would like to thank Hon. Raidza for raising the motion to this august House so that we deliberate on the life of our national hero, Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo. The late national hero was a remarkable man because of his character. There is no adequate description that I can give to the late Hon. Sen. Moyo to my satisfaction because his life was beyond extraordinary. Of course, the late S.B.
Moyo hails from Mberengwa but he was a son of the soil. The Second Republic ushered in a new era which culminated in every Zimbabwean getting to know the late Senator who was passionate about the development of Zimbabwe. All Zimbabweans watched him on television when he was passionately talking about the Second Republic. Everyone forgot the satellite television as they watched ZTV listening attentively to the future of Zimbabwe which was being outlined by the late national hero. He articulated Zimbabwe’ position in relation to other countries, he spoke passionately about Zimbabwe’s vision as a sovereign state and as a unified state which was working on resolving Zimbabwean issues within its borders. This is one of the people who was supposed to live long. Sen. S.B. Moyo’s death really affected Zimbabweans. He is one of the people whom we were looking forward seeing developing Zimbabwe, educating the nation on the direction to take.
He was a leader with an open door policy, which is not found amongst other Cabinet ministers where sometimes we hesitate to approach their offices because we do not know what response to expect. Sometimes you book for an appointment and you spend three months without seeing the Minister but this was not the case with Sen. S.B.
Moyo. He would attend to people who visited his office promptly. Sometimes he would talk whilst he was finishing what he was doing something else and he would resolve the issue as soon as possible.
I would like to compare him to other ministers like Hon. Mangaliso Ndlovu who has an open door policy and this is commendable. These are ministers who discharge their duties with fortitude and do not indulge in political grandstanding. They do not segregate people on tribal grounds, political-religious affiliation but they assist all people who go to their offices. The late Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo would give people his correct contact number. He was cultured and was a true patriot who loved Zimbabwe passionately. Those who did not like him eventually appreciated him when he was addressing the nation and everyone ululated including those who are in the opposition, who said that this man is brilliant.
I would like to request that the President appoints people of the same calibre like the late Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo. These are people who are able to drive the economy of the country because they are genuine patriots. He was straight-forward and it is painful as I ask myself how and why he was taken from us as a result of COVID-19. Truly speaking, some ministers who tarnish Government’s image should think twice and they should emulate the legacy that was left by Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo. To him, it did not matter which position he held. You would not know whether he was a civilian or a teacher. My request to other ministers is that they should emulate his attributes. I gave Hon Mangaliso Ndlovu as an example so that we emulate his character even whilst he is still alive. He must keep it up. To me, this demonstrates that we have young people who are mature. These are young people who reflect that they went to school whilst there are some who are unruly and believe in violence and hatred. This is not correct. We want people who are true patriots, who love their country before being given a position as a Minister or whichever Government position, you must love your country. On loving your country, you will love your people. If you do not love your country then you will not love your people.
The late Hon. Sen. S.B. Moyo was a loving man. He cared for his country and his people. There is no one who dies in Zimbabwe and is buried in a foreign country like Zambia or America – but everyone is buried in their motherland. Patriotism should be taught to all citizens instead of teaching people hatred. This mentality should not be perpetuated in Zimbabwe. We request God to continuously watch on Zimbabwe so that he does not take away its patriots like what happened with the late S.B. Moyo. I belong to the opposition MDC-T and I had access to the Hon. Minister’s office. I was never barred from his office. I would feel at home every time I visited his office. These are the leaders that we want and we are looking for. Hon Speaker, may God help us that our Ministers receive the Holy Spirit. If they do not pray to God, then they should pray.
Right now there is a lot of poverty, hunger, potholes and a lot of arguments as a result of contentious leaders. The President usually says that when you look at the 2018 election, it was a unique election which has never happened since 1980. People never believed that there would be such a peaceful election and this can be attributed to leaders like the late Hon. Sen. S.B Moyo. So, let us continue in the same path. May his soul rest in peace. Rest in peace son of the soil. We would like to say you are quiet wherever you are. One day we will join you son of the soil.
God took you away from us. We accept that and we cannot refuse what
God has done. We are pained. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. RAIDZA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI, seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the House adjourned at Seven Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the Senate that I have received the Centre for Education Innovation Research and Development Bill, [H. B. 1A, 2020] from the National Assembly.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI): Madam President, I move that Orders of the Day 1 to 5 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2021 VIRTUAL HEARINGS AT THE UNITED NATIONS ON FIGHTING CORRUPTION TO RESTORE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT AND IMPROVE DEVELOPMENT PROSPECTS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 2021 virtual Parliamentary hearing at the United Nations.
Question again proposed.
There being few Hon. Senators in the House.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: If I may ask, where are the other Hon. Members of the Senate? I have seen other Members saying they are on virtual, but we cannot start going on virtual before we fill the Chamber.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President. There is an HIV Committee that has gone out on outreach, that is why we have a few Hon. Senators today.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I do not think that takes more than half of the Members. Let us continue.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I want to support the report which was brought in by Hon. Sen. Muzenda. I want to say a few words on fighting corruption to restore confidence in the public. This motion is very pertinent because when a country has so much corruption, only a few people will be benefiting at the expense of the majority. We are grateful for that meeting because they have seen that this is affecting the development of many countries. So this gathering will help us because if they do not meet and talk about corruption, we would not have any development. This will lead to people losing trust in their Governments. I want to give gratitude for the report which was brought by Senator Muzenda because many countries are now engaging each other and bringing out many things about corruption.
I know where there is corruption, there would not be any peace in the country. Normally, one person will be blamed for corruption while he/she is not at the centre of it. I think as Zimbabwe, we must agree with that report because corruption is rampant in our country. If there is no corruption, Government projects will improve people’s lives. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Muzenda for bringing this report, because it keeps us on our toes in trying to combat corruption so that the projects of the country like construction of roads, schools, hospitals and bridges will be accomplished.
If there is corruption in the country, we will not make any progress in those projects. I want to thank the Hon. Sen. for bringing in that report. We must take it seriously so that we end corruption and move forward as a country. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute in this Senate. This is a very good motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Muzenda, her intention was to reprimand us so that we desist from corrupt activities. I would like to thank His Excellency the President. Since he enacted the law of putting behind bars all those who are involved in corrupt activities, we have seen action on the ground.
Mr. President, Zimbabwe is a very beautiful country. In some of the areas that we visited, some of the schools were built just one block, it does not mean he was given an amount enough to build just one block, some of the money was squandered. It is our wish that our President must continue to be firm and tough so that we have economic prosperity. We are sinking this country because of corrupt tendencies by certain corrupt individuals who disguise themselves as development partners or people who are so keen on development, whereas they are thieves.
There is nothing that is as ugly as someone who deceives those who trust him with developmental work. There are a lot of things that have been said by the previous speaker. That is not the only thing, people are stealing farming implements, people are taking inputs and giving them to girlfriends, nothing is finding itself on the farms and nothing is finding itself under the soil. People are using these resources to give to their girlfriends. It is during this period that we see a lot of funny behaviour. These are people who took oath and said they can do some of things that they were tasked to do. People are destroying themselves and this country. I continue to reiterate the fact that the President must be firm, he must not be afraid even those who are elderly, if they are corrupt, let them be send behind bars. If they are corrupt what will the young ones learn from such behaviour? Let it be a lesson and despite their age let them go behind bars.
It is my wish that we come together as the Upper House that we uphold this motion. This is meant to safeguard us because we are destroying our future. Even those who want to come to this country they will be afraid even when we have the resources, but it is because of our bad image that people are afraid to visit us. People are being given the opportunity and then they destroy it and if then the President brings the Chinese people to help what people are good at saying is that he is wrong. With these few words I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you very much Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to contribute on the motion brought in this Senate by Hon. Sen. Muzenda with regards to safeguarding our country on those who are corrupt. The issue of corruption is a pertinent issue; - we need to safeguard our country against such tendencies of corrupt activities.
When it comes to corruption, we have quite a number of individuals and it is my thinking that those caught on the wrong side of the law and are corrupt - people should not spend much time in the courts of law. They should be punished without delay. Corruption hinders development in this country.
We should look closely on the issue of corruption. All departments, as I see it, and I have always said that boys and girls and Hon. Ministers who were chosen by the President might be doing their job very well, but the problem is that of corruption. Where we saw corruption rampant was through the Pfumvudza Programme. Fertilizer was diverted and it never reached its destination. Fertilizer was being sold to individuals who did not deserve it. Let us make a follow-up on everyone who received these resources to say, did they utilise these resources? If not, these were corrupt tendencies and action should be taken.
In our rural areas, there are long detailed messages which were brought to our attention. We should look closely at counsellors – those who are entrusted with leadership in our communities whether they are doing it? A lot of departments should engage in monitoring and evaluation. If they manage to achieve that part, I think that with the motion that was brought by Hon. Muzenda, we would be able to get rid of corruption totally. If we are able to do that, some were caught in very ugly corruption cases but up to this day, we have not seen anything that has been done to them and no action has been taken on these individuals.
These people are wondering, gallivanting without anything being done to them. Let us have individuals we can have reference to, who are corrupt that we should point to and have them get arrested and put behind bars. Those should work as an example to the general public. Even our roads that we are using, there is a lot that is happening. Let there be a way and as a people and as a country, we want our country to develop and move forward. With these few words that I have contributed, I would like to say thank you.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on the report which was tabled by Hon. Sen. Muzenda in this House. My own view is that we should come up with a very strong law to protect whistle blowers. I think we will go a long way. People are afraid of being witnesses and some even take videos but for you to articulate it, you will be afraid of being victimised. This country is not in good state and things are not going on well. Even at the border there is security but people are crossing illegally.
The soldiers are being given bribes. Even during the time of Covid, we know people who would press to go and buy shoes, the soldiers would help those illegal border jumpers to bring in their things. I do not know whether this is because of poor remuneration which people are getting in Zimbabwe. If you look everywhere there is corruption. Yesterday with the Gender Committee, we were with women farmers. What they said was disturbing because they were saying they did not get tractors even from the time of Dr. Gono, and even up to now with this Pfumvudza, they have not benefitted anything. They were supposed to benefit the laptops but they did not get them.
Everywhere even in the highways, the Wish cars are just passing by the road-blocks because they pay bribes. We have rampant corruption and this is why we cannot go any further because even at VID, people are buying licences. So Mr. President, I have seen that if we come up with strong laws of protecting whistle blowers who witness where corruption is taking place, I think everything will be so clear. Thank you for affording me this opportunity.
^^HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you President of the Senate. Allow me to thank Hon. Sen. Muzenda who brought in this motion to this House, not forgetting the President of the country who always speaks against corruption. When I look at the issue of corruption, the question is what are we doing about corruption? This is what we are supposed to be asking ourselves. Corruption is not done by an individual. Two or three people are involved. Each and everyone is involved in one way or the other. We should be found taking action against corrupt activities. I come from Beitbridge where we have the border between South Africa and Zimbabwe. For example, our road from the border is 5 km to the intersection of Bulawayo and Harare. This road has taken more than 15 years and it is not yet complete. No work is done with allegations that there is no more money.
On the issue of COVID-19, which is a global pandemic and we need to protect ourselves, when we want to go to South Africa, people have to be tested by authorised hospitals but those permits are now fake. There are private companies that produce these certificates illegally. How? We do not understand. Mr. President, instead of controlling the pandemic, it is being spread due to corruption.
Now, looking at this issue of COVID-19, right now we are faced with this global pandemic which we need to protect ourselves against at all cost. Because the Beitbridge Border is still closed, there are people who are writing fake COVID certificates and giving negative results, yet no tests would have been done. This is done so as to allow people to cross the border to buy whatever they want.
Mr. President Sir, looking at the border area, with regards to tax revenues that we are supposed to get as a country, we are not getting those because of corruption, hence our Government fails to get revenue. Not only that Mr. President. With regards to issues of job opportunities, there are companies that employ people and you would realise that an individual goes to present about ten people that he or she is aligned to. The other individual takes their 20 people that they are aligned to, grand children, uncles, cousins and take them there without any qualifications. At the end of the day, that particular company employs people that are not qualified.
Mr. President, it is my plea that all of us become police officers. I have not seen or heard of one MP reporting issues around corruption. We have a duty of helping our society. It is not the country’s President alone who is supposed to denounce corruption. We need to help our President to make sure that corruption is reduced in this country.
Another issue is that these perpetrators of corruption should be apprehended and given long sentences and not to let the culprits go without being sentenced. I urge all the legislators in here to come up with a policy to make sure that if one is apprehended due to corruption involving money, once that money has been reimbursed, it should be put into tangible projects like building schools, clinics or mothers’ waiting shelters.
Mr. President, there is an issue with regards to monitoring and evaluation. There should be serious monitoring in activities that will be carried out so that we really see progress in these projects. There should be follow ups so that whoever would want to be involved in corruption knows that they will be arrested and this will deter them. If we do not do this Mr. President, we will not be able to fight corruption in our country. Let us fight it and make sure that there is peace and unity in our country. With these few words, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Hon. President for the motion that was brought in this House by Hon. Muzenda on corruption. Corruption Mr. President, we do not know how we can get rid of this cancerous behaviour. We used to hear these things coming from Nigeria that they make fake passports and do these corrupt activities. For now, we are confused on what could be the main reason for these corrupt activities.
In the rural areas, we are losing a lot. I am not reporting this case to you but I lost 17 cattle and we wonder how they move around without a letter. They went just like that; not even a trace. This is the corruption that we are talking about. In the rural areas, we have donkeys. They are the ones we use for transportation and we depend on them because we are poverty stricken.
I do not know about the police Hon. President. If there is a mine that is said to be thriving, you see soldiers and police officers inside that particular mine. Where do we report to? If you go to a police camp, you find only two policemen. It is pointless to go there and report, you just find two people. Who is then going to arrest the policemen? Honesty, where we are going is unknown. These children we are raising are thieves. Technology has brought corrupt officials. Fake permits are designed and things go just like that, I do not know honestly Hon. President. The formers speaker has said the truth. Even drivers of these small cars are corrupt. Corruption is everywhere; those we expect to fix corruption are into it. Not all of them, but it is my wish that we find a suitable solution to this issue. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Senator Muzenda for bringing in the report on corruption. We want to know about these meetings they hold outside the country, what type of resolutions do they come up with because corruption in Africa is so rampant. It is like the graph is going up. Here is Zimbabwe, if you go into the city, it is corruption everywhere, if you go to the farms, in the cities, banks, councils - you find that it is corruption everywhere.
Mr. President, on this other day here, we talked about touts who were not treating people well and Police said they do not have transport. We cannot understand the distance between town and Mbare which someone cannot go. If you go to Showground, there are a lot of touts there, even if you pass through town, you see many touts, they are everywhere. If we cannot remove the touts in our country, what else are we good at, it is corruption everywhere!
Mr. President, for a country to be well, I think those who steal money should be urged to return the money back. It is not good for our President to go out with a begging bowl when people will have stolen it. So, people should be prosecuted. Those who were involved in shoddy deals are with their families, they are walking scot free and they are many. So even those who want to prosecute them, they will end up saying should we prosecute them because nothing is being done. I think we are sinking deep in corruption.
Mr. President, it is also there in schools because if you cannot bribe a teacher, your child will not learn. So, it is corruption everywhere. We have said a lot in this House but nothing is changing. If you do not pay US$10 for your child to have extra lessons in the same class with the same teacher, your child will not learn anything but that teacher is being paid by the Government. So, I do not know where to report to. Last year, because of Covid, schools were closed but all the parents paid school fees for children who were seated at home. We do not know the reason. That is corruption.
Mr. President, corruption is rampant. If you go on the roads, there are so many roads which are 60 or 70 kilometers but you will find that only 5 kilometers have been resurfaced. We do not know where that money went to. It is corruption everywhere. If you visit clinics, if you do not know anyone there, you will not be treated well. So I do not know Mr. President what kind of law we can put in place so that this corruption is dealt with. Yes, we can talk about a lot of things, but corruption is just too much. We cannot chase away all the police officers and soldiers, but I think we should chase away the irresponsible bosses - they are the ones who supervise.
Mr. President, if you report your case to the supervisors that the junior has been involved in corruption, no action is taken. So the senior officers are the ones who are sending the juniors to be corrupt on the roads. Mr. President, illegal combis are finding their way into town. Long back, you would find the V.I.D on the roads from Monday to Friday but today you find that V.I.D is always on the road, nothing is happening, they are looking for money.
The other thing that causes corruption is that the laws are too stringent for example. If you are too harsh to your child at home, things that you do not want your child to do, that child will do it. Let us make our life easy. For example if you say a person should pay 100 dollars fine on the road, the police will say, ‘give me $20 and I will let you free’. Let us lower our fines for people to be able to pay. Maybe the police are not being remunerated well, but all of us are getting RTGs. Long back, ZESA used not to have so many divisions but we do not know why they came up with so many divisions. I think it is corruption because every new division is headed by a Director and Deputy Director, who were given cars. If we remove those things, do you think ZESA will stop from operating? This is all because of corruption, they want to engage in nepotism.
Mr. President, if these debates that we engage in - if they are heard and things implemented, probably we would end corruption, but you find that from 2018 when we started, very few things have been implemented. We do not know whether that is corruption, we do not even know where we are going. Even if people make a follow up, we just say they are in the offices, nothing is moving. I think we should rectify that - that whatever we speak in here, like this Senate, we are mature, we debate for 21 days and then it takes four to five years without implementing, then we wonder what were we debating. With these few words, Mr. President, I say we do not know how to end corruption but the whole of Africa is now in the corruption mode. The borders are open to everyone, even where there are restrictions but you will find that people are crossing. People who bring in second hand clothes are being prosecuted but why prosecute them while those things are coming through our borders and they are destroying our factories? The Government does not allow second hand clothes to be imported but they are all over this country. We do not want to bring our President to shame because at the end, the bark stops with him since he is the leader. Let us help each so that whatever we point out should be rectified and that the police can listen. If it is the Commissioner of the Police, he should be talked to. Thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. D.M. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity you gave me. I feel so much pain with the level of corruption in Zimbabwe. What pains me the most is that corruption in Zimbabwe is so high in Government departments where we expect people to be reporting to, but they have become the pool of corruption. I say this because I have seen this with my own eyes and have heard with my ears.
Firstly, we get coupons here to access fuel at CMED. You get there and they do not know who you are. They will tell you that there is no fuel but you will see someone being given drums of fuel. They will tell you that it belongs to him since he paid for it last week. If you ask them to remain with your coupons so that you will get fuel next time, they will say that it is not allowed. When you show them Parliament identification, they will apologise and then you will be served. Sometimes you think twice whether to identify yourself or not because you will also be promoting corruption or you can be attacked later.
There are so many people who were caught because of corruption but the cases seem to die a natural death when they say they are investigating. When people hear that someone who was involved in corruption was arrested, people rejoice but the trial will be postponed continuously. Later on, you will hear that the docket disappeared. I have never heard anyone who was prosecuted for corruption and nailed or maybe I missed that out.
What I think Government where we belong to, I encourage our Government to prosecute whoever is involved in corruption regardless of their positions because this will deter other people to engage in corrupt activities. Sometimes the only charge that they get is to be transferred from one Ministry to another. If you go to Local Government, people are paying for housing stands. People rush to pay because they will be told that stands will be repossessed. As I speak, there are some who have been paying for stands for over eight years but they have not been given anything. What they are getting now are threats that those stands will be sold to other people and you will be refunded the money that was paid in those years. They want them to continue paying. Is this not corruption? Where then should people go?
If they go to the police, as one Member who spoke before me said, one policeman would say go away from here. You just come here to report such useless issues, then we get to wonder why people have paid for those stands yet they do not get the actual stands. They were only given stand numbers. Is this not a level of corruption that does not even need investigation?
When we are driving, policemen do it brazenly. They will say, I just want a little from you then you can proceed. When I was travelling from South Africa after getting injured, at the border they asked me to pay money. They also said the road was full of thorns, so it needed to be pruned, otherwise I could not pass through. I requested to see the person who was saying that. After realising who was in the car, they then told the driver that he was carrying people who do not pay. He was asked to just go and apologise to me. To my surprise, there was a policeman and a soldier close by. I do not know what we can do to stop corruption but it is very rife in Government departments. What sort of country can it be if we do not address this issue?
Yes, in this country we are affected by sanctions but the biggest sanctions we have in this country is corruption. Government departments are churning out a lot of funds meant for development but that money is being diverted along the way. For example, my home is in Nkayi. The Nkayi road is dangerous. We cannot even call it a road. We would rather call it a death trap road because the road is full of huge potholes and there is no tar at all. Cars sway out and into the road, up and down as people strive to go. If you get a tyre puncture, you get attacked by illegal panners. Most people do not get to their destinations. That road has been there for over 30 years. So, why is that road not being repaired? The road is not very long like the Victoria Falls/Beitbridge, one but it is in very bad shape. We were once young and now we are old and that road is still not repaired. When tollgates were introduced, we rejoiced because we thought that our roads were going to improve but now the roads have become worse than what they were before the introduction of tollgates. Where is the tollgates money going to? It is supposed to repair roads but it is being abused instead of repairing roads. We call for the enactment of deterrent laws to stop corruption.
Some people are just moved from where they were working when they engage in corruption to somewhere. Is that addressing corruption? We also realised that corruption is now rampant in young children. Young children are making parents pay for some of the things that they do not deserve to pay for. What will become of these children when they grow up? If corruption is not controlled, I cannot imagine what will become of this country. The only thing that we need to do is enact strong laws. I thank you.
HON. SEN. SEKERAMAYI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF THE REPORT OF THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING CASES OF ALLEGED MISCONDUCT BY MDC-ALLIANCE MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Privileges Committee investigating cases of alleged misconduct by MDC Alliance Members of Parliament.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SEKERAMAYI: Mr. Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS (SDGs) ON VELD FIRE MANAGEMENT
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) on veld fire management.
Question against proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to support the report by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane in line with veld fires. I want to thank him and his Committee for their insight which they give us as the generality of Zimbabweans by bringing out the dangers of veld fires because we are having challenges with veld fires. The country of Zimbabwe is facing challenges being caused by veld fires. We know that veld fires are a danger to the community, wild animals and people’s lives are in danger. One day I was coming from Parliament, going to Bindura. There is a place called Hunter’s Road and there was a veld fire. Traffic came to a stand-still and by the side of the road there was a dead body of a man who had died because the road was blocked with smoke. He did not see the road and was involved in a car accident.
These fires are caused by people with five senses but they will be trying to hunt rabbits. I think we should empower our chiefs so that they are given more powers to control veld fires. We know that everyone in this country is under a chief and chiefs know how to control their areas against veld fires. The other thing that I see is that in Zimbabwe people belittle the laws of the country because we do not have stiffer penalties for those who cause veld fires. Maybe it is because they pay a penalty of RTGs15 and this makes people not value the laws of the land.
As parliamentarians, we should make noise about it and scrutinise laws on our forests. If they are no longer applicable, we should repeal them so that people are afraid to commit crime. In Zimbabwe, Mashonaland Central tops when it comes to veld fires. We should be number one in terms of development. Even if our chiefs are working very hard, our children are not following what the chiefs are saying because some of the fires are lit in the night. Our country is very beautiful and our rivers are beautiful, this is what attracts tourists here in Zimbabwe because some just visit to come and view our mountains.
We are fighting tourism in this country and we are not getting tourists. Our rivers are drying up because the grass would have been burnt and it is causing siltation into the rivers. Our wild animals and domesticated animals are dying because of lack of water and lack of food as well. We should have stiffer penalties and convict people so that when after conviction they will not do it again. I also want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane and his Committee that they did a good job as a country that we should look closely at what should be rectified. We do not support veld fires because it is a death trap.
In my area, a 90 year old woman died because she could not run away from the veld fire and it is very disturbing. We should be united in the fight against veld fires. I also urge the Ministry of Environment to help us in understanding their laws, especially in the resettlements. I think they should come up with fire guard committees in the rural areas and resettlements - those who will be our watchmen when it comes to veld fires, and I think this will really help us. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane for the work which he did on veld fires. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Mr. President. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 19th May, 2021.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. MUNZVERENGWI), the Senate adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday 13th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I
move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 18 be stood over until Order No.
19 has been disposed of.
HON. T. MOYO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REMOVAL OF COMPOSITE CLASSES FROM THE EDUCATION
SYSTEM
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: I move the motion standing in my name that:
NOTING that Section 75 (1) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that every citizen and permanent resident of Zimbabwe has a right to a basic state-funded education,
WORRIED that children attending composite classes are given less learning time than their counterparts who have fulltime teachers,
COGNISANT that primary school learners in Zimbabwe who are taught in composite classes register poor Grade 7 results,
DISTURBED that heads in composite class schools are fulltime teachers within the teacher to learner ratio,
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon:
- The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to completely remove composite classes from our Education System.
- The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to apply the teacher/class ratio for all small schools as opposed to the teacher/pupil ratio.
- The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to progressively recruit more teachers to increase the establishment of teachers in schools with composite classes.
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to increase funding during annual budgets to facilitate provision of infrastructure and learning materials in these schools.
HON. MADHUKU: I second.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Composite classes in primary schools are common in Sub-Saharan
Africa and this is according to Malkin and Higgins (2009). In
Zimbabwe they have been in existence since the establishment of formal education and to illustrate one of the types of composite class I shall use information gathered by two researchers, Nyoni and Nyoni in 2011 at Murezi Primary School, 40 kilometres from Chivhu and 18 kilometers off Chivu-Gutu Road.
Murezi Primary School had three teachers including the head. The three teachers shared the classes with one teacher taking Grades One and Two and the other taking Grade Three, Four and Five and the head had Grades Six and Seven. Each teacher taught the classes under one roof and at the same time. That is the teacher with Grades Three, Four and
Five would start with Grade 3 work proceed to Grade Four and finally Grade Five work of these combined class of three Grades. The teacher could give written work to the lower Grades as the lesson progressed up to the last Grade or give the work at the end of the whole lesson.
One pupil interviewed at Murezi said, when the teacher was tired, they could be given the same written work. One teacher who was also interviewed confessed that he had not been trained to teach composite classes and indeed our teacher training colleges and universities today do not have a curriculum that covers training of composite class teachers. It was also noted that when the head went for meetings, the teachers remaining would simply babysit the Grade Six and Seven
classes.
The weaknesses of this mode of teaching included as per those researchers:-
- Upper Grades taking time learning lower Grades material.
- Inadequate time for individual learner attention.
- Inclusion of the head as a fulltime teacher.
- Teachers concentrating on upper examination classes at the expense of the lower classes.
- Untrained teachers for composite teachers.
- The school had not been visited by the district education staff for the past five years.
- Frustrated gifted higher grades learners who did not need the revision.
- Demotivated lower Grades to lower learners who could not keep pace with the upper Grades learners.
Let me also give another example of a composite class in the
Zimbabwean context where a teacher has Grades Two and Five or
Grades One, Four and Six under one roof. Madam Speaker Ma’am, because of high differentials in these Grades, it is not possible for the teacher to teach the class all at once. So, each class is taught separately whilst others wait for their turn. That is a teacher with three classes will teach only one lesson per class where a teacher at a school where teachers teach only one class would teach three lessons.
- This model of composite class is characterised by inadequate teaching time per class.
- Classes disturbing each other when there are music lessons in the other class or there is some chorus answering or there will be interesting lessons.
-There will be focus on upper Grades to the detriment of lower classes where learning actually begins.
- Practical lessons are not going to get time as the teacher cannot go out living other learners in the classroom.
-Still like the first example, inclusion of the head as a fulltime teacher.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, composite classes are common in small and large scale commercial farming, resettlement and other sparsely populated communal areas have very low enrolments and some of them are actually threatened by non viability. Following the announcement of the 2020 Grade 7 results and the high prevalence of 0% pass rate in Lupane district, Mr Ndlovu in 2021 carried out a research on the possible causes of high failure rates and observed that most of the Grade Seven learners were reading at Grade Three to Grade Five levels. Learners were good at oral responses but poor at written work. The majority of schools with 0% pass rates had composite classes. Even in my constituency in Bikita South, I have got three schools like Chibvure, Tugwi and Mujiji that have composite classes and their results have always been bad. Other researches have also proved the negative effects of composite classes in the performance of learners. Russel, Rowe and Hill (2000) observed that composite classes contributed to lower classroom performance of pupils. Mason and Burns (1996) say composite contributes to poor quality infraction and further argue that even though teachers may be superior, the demand in nature of composite classes reduces the quality of their instruction. N. Machemedze and E Chinamasa (2015) say enough financial resources should be given to schools with composite classes and do away with these classes despite the low enrolments. They further argue that primary school learners are still tender to be expected to learn in self supervised situations and called for each school to have a teacher per grade.
In Zimbabwe, the high primary teacher pupil ratios of 1 to 40 before COVID-19 pandemic and the 1 to 35 during the pandemic have continued to keep composite classes at play. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should introduce the teacher-class ratio where composite classes are imminent. This will go in tandem with the
Ministry’s mission statement to provide equitable, quality, inclusive, relevant and competence driven primary, secondary and non formal education. Furthermore, Section 19 (d) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe states that children should have access to appropriate education and training.
Although disasters such as drought, Cyclone Idai and COVID-19 pandemic have not spared Zimbabwe as a nation, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should prioritise funding for recruitment of more teachers, provision of resources and infrastructural development for schools with composite classes during the annual budget. Consequently, the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and
Social Welfare should progressively recruit more teachers to increase the staff in all schools with composite classes. In the end, the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education will realise the complete removal of composite classes from our primary schools system and the promotion of a high teacher-pupil contact ratio culminating into motivated teachers, learners, parents and hence very good grade seven results in line with Vision 2030. So I submit Madam Speaker Ma-am.
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to also support the motion given by Hon. Sithole on the very critical issue of composite classes. Let me point out from the onset that the motion specifically relates to the primary school sector which is different from the secondary school sector; because the teachers go into the classroom and teach specific subject areas and after teaching a specific subject area, the teacher leaves the class and gives way for another teacher to come in with a different learning area.
Let me begin by stating that the issue of quality education is very critical and like Hon. Sithole, he has already made reference to the
Constitution of Zimbabwe which talks about high quality education to
all learners as a right. I am also referring to the United Nations 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and SDG No. 4 which says that it is very critical for nations to build and upgrade education facilities that are child disability and gender sensitive and also provide a safe, non violent, inclusive and effective learning environment for all. What we are saying is that the issue of composite classes contradicts the rationale for the provision of quality education in schools. Hon. Sithole said a teacher teaches more than one class at a time or in a given day whereas his/her colleague is teaching just one.
So we have a teacher everyday of the week, the whole month, the whole calendar waking up to go to school to teach more than one class when the counterpart is teaching just one class. This is a very glaring and unfair disparity which has to be looked at and solved as soon as possible. They are doing that for the same remuneration. There is no other incentive being given to such a teacher with a massive workload. It clearly compromises the intended deliverables hence the reason we are lamenting that such a situation should be revisited and necessary action taken to redress this glaring anomaly. Like Hon. Sithole said, teachers are not trained to teach these composite classes, increased the workload for the teacher in terms of planning, teaching, marking, practical work, extra curricula activities, the teacher has to ensure that he takes these grades because they are operating at different levels. We are experiencing a situation whereby some learners and some classes are left unattended because the teacher would be busy with another class. Besides this Madam Speaker, we are having teachers who are demotivated and they experience burn out physically, emotionally, mentally - mentally exhausting because of excessive stress because they feel emotionally drained because of the workload. Such a teacher it is clear, will not be able to deliver to the maximum of his or her ability. Hence Hon. Sithole has moved this important motion by way of trying to convince the Government, the Ministry to redress the situation.
Madam Speaker, let me quickly look the other area, the challenges which are faced by learners themselves. In a class, we have differently abled learners in a classroom situation. We have slow learners, gifted learners. We also have visual learners, those who can master concept by seeing what the teacher would be doing. We also have auditory learners, those who are good at just hearing the teacher teaching then they master concept by only hearing and not interested in seeing. Those learners who are good at seeing would want to see the charts, the posters and so on pinned on the walls of the classroom, but here we are talking of composite classes whereby we have mixed grades, sometimes in the same room.
It means that we are not accommodating the different kinds of learners. We also have kinesthetic learners in the class who are good at doing things, the hands on type of learners. These learners also want to have an experience of touching and so on. We also have reading and writing learners. Those learners who are not good at listening, seeing, but they are good at reading and writing. We are saying Madam Speaker, these environments, necessary for the different types of learners cannot be availed by the teacher when one has so many classes, sometimes in the same class and where resources, infrastructure is available, he will have to move from one class to the other, by so doing, leaving the other learners unattended. Here we are talking about the little learners, little children. What will they be doing –running around and this is not good for the education system. These learners are expected to work harder than their peers because they lack adequate time to be with their teachers and they are going to sit for the same examination and we are talking of the same syllabi for these learners. When results are out, it is clear that these learners will not perform as well as their counterparts. We are already condemning a generation before we go anywhere, because of the provision of these inadequacies in education.
Madam Speaker, I am also saying the learners themselves also miss opportunities for good social interaction, emotional growth and development because of the restrictive nature of the environment in which they learn. So I want to say that from the motion raised, it is our plea to the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education as well as the Public Service Commission to ensure that the Ministry gets rid of these composite classes in the primary schools sector to ensure that we avail the same learning environment to all learners. It is so sad that to note that this kind of situation is prevalent mostly in the rural areas where students are already disadvantaged in so many ways. They continue to operate under very difficult conditions and we pray that this important motion sees the light of the day and corrective action be taken accordingly. I thank you.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I firstly want to thank Hon. Sithole and the seconder Hon. Madhuku for this noble motion that they have brought to the House. It is actually a noble motion and I am happy that the two Hon. Members of Parliament are educationists and are speaking from experience. They know the advantages and disadvantages of composite classrooms. I would have loved if possibly Hon. Sithole could have – because the assumptions that he made are that all Members understand what composite classrooms are. I am glad that Hon, Madhuku went an extra mile to explain what it is. I remember in the early years of Independence when we had very few teachers and we had many children who wanted to go to school. We had a situation in the rural areas where some of us grew, where we would have one teacher teaching two different classes in the same classroom. A teacher would teach grade ones whilst the grade twos would be waiting to be taught or being asked to do some work on their own. You will recall that during that time and I understand the same situation still prevails. These composite classes happen in rural areas and if you check in the rural areas, you find that in the school where there are composite classes are the schools that do not have modern teaching equipment. They still rely on blackboards as we used to call them, where the teacher used to write using a chalk and nine out of 10 Madame Speaker, is that he/she puts the work on the blackboard for this grade whilst the other grade is just waiting. Madam Speaker, in a way, you are killing both the teacher and also affecting the future of the student.
I will give you a good example to simply say that in a classroom where there are Grade Ones and Grade Twos being taught by the same teacher, there is a possibility that the older children in that classroom will become disengaged and also feel that they are being held back by the lower level content that they will be subjected to because you want to believe that as a student, you are now at a certain level. Then you have to further allow yourself to continue listening to a teacher who is now teaching something that you went through maybe a year or two earlier. The other problem and it is actually a challenge to have one teacher teaching one class. The level of concentration, capacity and the intelligence quotient (IQ) of students are different. Now if it is a composite class, the possibility that students will be overlooked, especially those who are academically challenged, is high because the teacher is overwhelmed.
Thirdly Madam Speaker, it is also to do with the curriculum. Both Hon. Madhuku and Hon. Sithole covered it, to simply say that every teacher who is teaching at a rural school like Mukwatsi Primary School, Chikomba, is doing the same syllabus and curriculum with a teacher who is teaching at Gillingham Primary School. When it comes to Grade 7, they are supposed to be examined using the same examination paper. Imagine that a teacher who is taking composite classes, will he/she be in a position to cover that syllabus? It does not matter whether you say that they have few students because they are in a rural setup. The mere fact that a teacher has to concentrate on this class and then concentrate again on another class especially now – we are now doing six subjects for Grade 7. Imagine, the teacher now has to do six subjects for this subjects and another six subjects for the other class – it does not work.
Madam Speaker, the other problem that also then ensues in a situation like that is the question of bullying. You have two different age groups sitting in the same classroom whether you say the other ones are sitting on the left, right, front or at the back – it does not matter because what tends to then happen Madam Speaker is that the temptation of bullying is high. Why? Because most of the time, those students whose class is not being taught at that particular moment become restless once the teacher goes out or even during the break period. They tend to then bully the younger students.
Madam Speaker, I want to state here that we cannot as Zimbabwe,
41 years after Independence, be seen to be practicing such a method.
Yesterday I listened to Hon. Nyabani complaining about the situation in
Rushinga, Mt. Darwin where he was saying that in other schools they have one or two qualified teachers being left to take care of ECD through to Grade 7. That is an indictment on our part as the leadership of this country. At this particular moment Madam Speaker, those things and because some of us represent urban constituencies, we thought that composite classes were a thing of the past. To imagine Madam Speaker that we are still having it in 2021 is not fair. It means that there are certain school children from various rural setups whose future we are systematically destroying through our negligence and failure to do the right thing.
What bothers me most Madam Speaker is that I only need to move one street or from one place to another to find a number of qualified teachers who are roaming in the streets and have now resorted to selling air time because the Public Service Commission is unable to recruit them. I think that it is crucial that Government employs and absorbs all these teachers and send them to all the remote rural areas where there is shortage of teachers. I think Hon. Sithole’s motion is very important as it seeks to bring equality amongst our students across all provinces of Zimbabwe.
Hon. Sithole then also calls for the need of enough teaching resources to be availed to schools. Madam Speaker, if there is anything that COVID-19 taught us, it is the issue of online learning and we also learnt that to look at the Grade 7; O level and A level results, because only those students who had access to online learning and had schools and teachers who had access to advanced teaching material were the ones who excelled. I know that for certain provinces, the pass rates were very poor and not because the students are bad but because Government failed to do its job.
I therefore, fully support the call by Hon. Josiah Sithole to say, let resources be channeled towards education; let all schools, whether in rural Mberengwa, Chikomba, Mutoko, Mt. Darwin and any part of this country have enough learning material. More importantly, we should do away with composite classes. Let us employ all those graduates from teachers colleges who are now selling air time and roaming the streets to come into the formal sector. Let Government take them to the classes so that the future of Zimbabwe remains bright. Madam Speaker, I thank you so much for this time and I also thank the two honourable educationists, Hon. Sithole and Hon. Madhuku for tabling this motion.
(v)*HON. MAGO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity. I would like to applaud the Committee that brought this debate talking about children going into one class even if they are in different grades. That usually happens in rural areas where there are no adequate classrooms because the Ministry of Education gives a certain number as the minimum but sometimes in rural areas, a class may not get to that number, hence they bundle together Grades 1, 2, 3 and they are taught by one teacher.
Sometimes a teacher may be transferred they die or go for maternity leave and the Ministry does not replace that teacher. That happens because the Ministry says they are not able to replace that teacher. One teacher ends up teaching three classes at the same time. It is very important that Government should differentiate and specify the minimum number of pupils in each class, for example 15 so that children get a teacher instead of having to go all the way to number 30 or 35. The Ministry should also ensure that any teacher who is transferred should be replaced immediately instead of delaying and explaining that the process will be started all over.
If you also look at those schools, you find that the Acting Headmasters and Headmasters will also have classes to teach. They are supposed to carry other duties that the headmaster is supposed to do. That means that teacher will not be able to teach those pupils because the headmaster will be in that acting role again. The other thing is that Government should specify minimum standards for a classroom block and also for teachers’ cottages. Sometimes they are very small blocks of schools with few pupils and relatively poor parents. They pay very little amounts of fees and the fees that they pay cannot construct proper classrooms.
They are also not able to construct teachers’ cottages because of the small amount of fees they pay. I think the Ministry of Education should stipulate minimum standards for classrooms, even at least costeffective structures to be constructed for teachers’ cottages as well as classrooms so that children may learn under good conditions and this may also stop the composite classrooms. We have a lot of engineers who can be handy in that aspect so that children may learn under good classroom conditions. The Ministry of Education should not just give a blanket recommendation without necessarily assessing the situation on the ground.
Sometimes our teachers on the ground would be old people who are towards retirement. The Ministry did not replace such teachers. When we changed the curriculum, we stated that there should be a school for every five kilometers. Now ECD-A kids go at four years – how can a four year kid travel for more than five kilometers at such an age? So, we are still at five kilometers. A young kid who is four years of age cannot travel that long distance. By the time they get to school they will be tired and feeling sleepy.
We should change that culture. Sometimes the kid goes to school and travels a long distance and the kid is late and no one will ask the kid why he/she is late. That also affects the discipline aspect on the kid.
Even the teacher may not be available sometimes. Moral is very low in the sector because teachers are also crying foul about remuneration as well as incentives. Sometimes we just cluster all the children in one group even if they are of different age groups. The Ministry of Education should relook at the plight of children who are bundled in composite classrooms. The children must also have a better culture because now they are getting to school very late and that culture gets into them. So it affects their discipline in future. I think that culture of composite classrooms must end. I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
(v)*HON. SHAMU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me
this opportunity to participate in this debate. I would also like to thank Hon. Sithole for moving this motion which was seconded by Hon. Madhuku. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to kindly ask that as we debate this issue, let us not stray away from reality. Things do not just happen without a reason. I would like to say at this juncture, it is misleading ourselves to seek immediate abolishment of composite classes.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Hon. Member, you are no longer connected.
(v)*HON. SHAMU: I was saying let us look at the context and concrete situation of our country, Zimbabwe. As we air our views, let us be informed by reality. According to the Constitution of this country, every child has a right to education. That is the reason why composite classes are there. They are trying to fulfill that constitutional requirement. This is not only happening here in Zimbabwe. Even if you go to Scotland, they have a law on composite classes, which binds the Minister, Secretary and all units on education.
When I heard about this motion from Hon. Sithole, I sought the input of Prof. Nziramasanga of the Nziramasanga Commission and he said we will never get rid of composite classes - not because of the law, but nature. Mr. Speaker Sir, there are a number of reasons why teachers end up with several classes under their tutelage. It could be because of over enrollment and under enrolment. If they are not enrolled in that area, they will then have to travel a longer distance. So, the debate now becomes how best can we fulfill the constitutional requirements and the solution is composite classes.
The other reason is children’s abilities differ so much that it is necessary to put a class of able children on their own and that of unable children on their own under the same teacher. Some pupils learn faster than others. When the teacher assesses and realises that many pupils learn faster, they then try to find ways of assisting the slow learners. The other aspect is age difference. Let us remember that there are some pupils who start going to school at an older age. They have the right to access education as per our Constitution. When we take that into consideration, the existence of composite schools becomes a positive strategy. Zimbabwe today has the highest literacy rate in Africa. This is because the educational system took all aspects of challenges into consideration.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are schools situated in wildlife areas such as Binga and Chete. People who live or work there have families. Where do such people send their children for studies? There will be wild animals in the surrounding areas. There has to be a solution so that those children get access to education. Should we decide to do away with composite classes today, what will be the fate of children in such areas? We should proffer solutions that consider their plight. In so doing, we also take into consideration our budget, our financial situation. How do we achieve the objectives of Vision 2030? That cannot be done by repeating what the colonial regime used to do, where they introduced a bottle-neck system in the education sector. Everyone was encouraged to go to school but those who ended up at the university would be very few. Today we have many universities. In 1980, we had very few. We did not close the university that we had at the time in order to have many universities.
The solution which is being proffered by Government is meant to provide ease of access to education to our learners. So, what we should be saying is how best we can address this issue going forward. Just like what happens overseas, there should be a law. If there is a school that has composite classes, let us address the situation in time so that we are able to give access to education to all children and not just play blame game on Government.
Hon. Speaker Sir, the Nziramasanga Commission Report explains the cause of composite classes as caused by many factors including children having to walk long distances. The Commission recommends that we cannot do away with composite classes just like that. Composite classes are not a problem, they are a necessity. The Ministry should put a clear policy that requires the continued existence of composite classes in less developed areas where children are walking long distances, where there are no utilities, lack of local development, shortage of books, shortage of qualified teachers and accommodation.
Development of infrastructure for schools is a gradual process. It cannot be done at once in all areas. A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step and where there is a will, there is a way. I would like to thank the mover of this motion because it calls on us to look to the future. We have no control over what happened in the past but we can contribute to determination of the future. We should not just talk of doing away with composite classes but we should recommend more resources to be availed to such schools in order to alleviate their plight.
The aim is always to fulfill the constitutional requirement which demands that every child has a right to education. I thank you.
HON. KAPUYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am here to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Sithole and seconded by Hon. Madhuku.
There is an issue here which we are debating and we are losing focus. We are failing to separate a composite class and a hot sitting class. I was listening to Hon. Members who spoke before me who were arguing that education for free entails that a child should not walk 5 km from the next school. We then have to applaud the current Government by saying kids should not walk more than 5 km, regardless of the population in that area. The reason why we are having composite classes in the rural areas is because the schools are far apart. Some are satellite schools, the population is small.
If you look in other areas, Grade one, you might have 10 kids. Grade two three kids; Grade four 1 kid. Does it require a teacher for one child? The ratio is not possible. What will then happen is the
Government or the Public Service Commission has no choice but to say we have to make a composite class, so that it becomes feasible for a teacher to have 15 kids instead of 1 teacher: 1 pupil or 1 teacher: 3
pupils, it is impossible. Even the budget does not allow that. Then there is an issue of hot sitting, where there are 60 kids in one class, there is also an issue of infrastructure which needs to be looked into. There is also the issue of recruitment of teachers which needs to be looked into if the situation is like that.
Basing with what we have as the current situation in the country of COVID-19, there is need for classes to have what the Government is saying in the current situation. If you look at our classrooms, they were built about 15 x 5 metres and 15 x 5 M2, it is a small classroom to accommodate 60 pupils. The Government has to come with that solution to say they learn two or three or four days a week, so that we adhere to WHO regulations of a metre apart per child. Now, we have to urge the Government to make sure that we increase the infrastructure and when we build our classrooms, with the planning department from the Ministry of Education, they have to make bigger classrooms. We have to learn now from the epidemic that there is going to be that need to space our children when they are learning.
My plea to my Hon. Members, let us ask the Minister of Finance through the Minister of Education to avail more funds to the Ministry of Education so that they will bring Building Brigade to build infrastructure both in towns and in rural areas where there is a lot of kids who need to go to school and the ratio is 60:1 per teacher.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to commend Hon. Sithole for bringing this motion; a motion which talks about the teacher of any nation and which is based on education. If you recall from 1980 to 1999, Zimbabwe has a model for infrastructure development. Schools were built, hospitals were built and infrastructure was in place. Then we went to 1990 to 2000, where our infrastructure was critical. The leader of the time believed that the only way a nation could be called a nation would be for it to have infrastructure. Schools were built in the rural areas and if you look at the schools which were built in 1990 and the schools built now, you cannot compare it.
Accommodation for the teachers was there. Water was there, Government at that point in time did not build a school without water being there; without teachers accommodation being there. The reason why teachers’ accommodation is important is that when you deplore people to those rural areas, the remuneration must be different from those in the urban because of the hardships in those areas. Government did it, it knew very well and most of the teachers at the time were willing to go to the rural areas because of the incentives which were given to them. Teachers were well remunerated, they became part of the community and were even given land in rural areas by village heads to stay. They had businesses because it was the way to go about being a successful person and being a teacher.
If you now compare to what this motion talks about, it is the same country, same leaders and same ideology. What has gone wrong? Since 1980, we have the leadership of the war veterans capable war veterans in control which is welcome because they are the custodians of the liberation we enjoy. When they were fighting the struggle they knew what will emancipate the people and in emancipating the people they realised that the Smith regime had destroyed the blacks through not education them.
The only way that the black and Africans in Zimbabwe will be true people was to come up with a comprehensive structure which will take us to no point. In no time, Zimbabwe was the pillar and endowed with human resources which today in SADC you cannot talk about any country which has the human resource capital as Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe today has got people all around the world working. The question is where did these people come from? Most of them came from rural schools; Professor Arthur Mutambara came from a rural school. This is what Zimbabwe did because of them focusing on education. I came out with my own quote today saying that ‘poor service conditions result in poor education results’. There is no way you can expect good education results when the conditions are poor. The two are inseparable. What we have is a situation where we must ask the pillars of Government; what is the role of the Public Service
Commission, Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and
Local Government and Public Works? Who is responsible for the construction of the infrastructure - it is Public Works. What are they doing, who is responsible for the service of teachers - it is Public Service
Commission? Who is responsible for disbursing the money, it is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
Are they playing their role in ensuring that this becomes a total package without one doing their duty? There is no total package. We see ourselves missing and we see a pistol which is not firing. As a result, why have we encouraged this scenario to happen? These children today will be blaming you and me that we let them down. How can they be liberated, how can they enjoy this country when they do not have sound education values?
Already, we are lost in this aspect and we need to address this matter as soon as possible because if you look at most countries where wars start, it is because we have a lot of children who are idle and who are not doing anything. May we stop using schools as places where children are just packed because their parents do not know how to look after them? You would rather have these kids at school working in the fields because at the end of the day that is a skill which can give them money. The point of going to school does not at all give them anything. At the end of the day, what is the child learning? Which parents in their sensible mind can say that their child is being educated when teachers are conducting lessons under such a scenario?
We are a Parliament; why have we allowed this to happen? In view of this, I will therefore, implore Parliament, stakeholders and Government to close these schools immediately and moving forward, may they start building structures first before enrolling school children. We are having a situation where we are allowing children to learn under a tree. Which school with people who have normal senses would really perform well with children learning under a tree - it is uncomfortable. The comfort of a student is critical in them thinking sharp, being alert and being able to be attentive. We now have a situation where we talk about COVID-19 right now. How hypocritical can we be as a country to say that we are observing World Health Organisation (WHO) regulations when we have got five or six classes in one room? Are we not being hypocritical? Why are we lying to people?
We are arresting people, why are we not arresting these teachers if we are to follow the law?
One classroom has got four classes in there and there is one teacher. We are now talking about a situation where recently the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare has got to recruit trained teachers who are there. They are not being recruited and it is not a question of inadequate resources. If we believe that education is critical to the growth and future of this country, why are we not putting money into education? I chaired the Primary and Secondary School Portfolio Committee at the time it got more money than anybody else but the money that we got at the time was to pay the teachers and not to build infrastructure.
I therefore urge Members of Parliament when we are passing a budget on Education, may we first approve the budget for infrastructure before we approve the budget for the salaries. You are now approving salaries for the teachers who are doing nothing; that money is going to waste. You would rather put it into infrastructure.
When there is infrastructure, children are comfortable and the teachers are able to teach. Now you have a situation where the teachers cannot teach and the children are not comfortable at the end of the day. What do we get out of it? It is important that Parliament really when the budget is at play we really focus on education because some of these things expose us. We represent people, and in representing people the budget is critical to the representation of people. When we pass the Budget here, this is where immediately there must be a supplementary budget which is coming to this House motivated by the Portfolio Committee on Education that so much billions must be put towards infrastructure for education.
Nothing stops that in terms of the law. We have not seen any Minister coming here asking for more money. We have not seen them coming here and I am glad that the Chairman for Finance and Budget Committee is here. If at all with the inflation that is going on, the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must be here every day seeking condonation so that he matches the money that we approve to inflation. We now have a situation where there is no traction in terms of money being provided to meet the demand. The Minister is not coming to seek condonation for him to be able to spend more money. In the COVID-19 time, there are emergencies and procurement to be done and money is availed. When it comes to the important things which matters to the future of this country, money is not availed.
We must be able to probe the Minister why he is not coming to this Parliament because this Parliament will pass this supplementary budget anytime for infrastructure for these school children at the end of the day. They are living in another world, not Zimbabwe and it is painful. I feel for Members of Parliament who are in rural constituencies. In fact we must actually have a position. I used to be a Member of Parliament in a rural constituency, and I am a Member of Parliament in an urban area.
I must also say that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) must give more money to members in rural constituencies than those in the urban. They must be given money for infrastructure so that they develop these rural constituencies. This is what we must be talking about. In the urban, I personally do not require as much money as those in the rural areas and so forth. There must be an incentive for members in the rural areas to even be given 4 by 4 cars and those in the urban areas must not be given. It does not make sense giving me a car in the urban where the roads are tarred. We have Members of Parliament who are in rural areas who need to get to these points, for Hon. Sithole to have come up with this report, it was because he had to use his car to get to that point; yet him and I are on the same payroll, I am in the urban – it does not make sense. We cannot allow a country to grow when we are not also being able to reward those who are putting more money and effort into what they are doing. Members of Parliament by their own are not rich people; they are there to serve the country and a purpose.
How come we have got untrained teachers, how did they find themselves there? The reason why we have got untrained teachers is that the conditions for the qualified teachers is not in place, so you pick Ordinary level and Advanced level students in these areas who end up teaching - there is a problem. Do they follow the curriculum? No, they do not. So you are now going a 1000 km in the wrong direction and for you to come back, it is impossible because you would have gone too far.
You will now subject them to a life which is not of their fault - as leaders, we have seen this happening.
In terms of the ECD, we cannot even talk about it at all. I think at times we are unfair to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, we ask so many questions about results, yet we know very well that results are out of teachers who are well remunerated. The Public Service Commission is responsible for that, at times we must be able to really point the questions relevant to the Minister because the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education does not employ. He is saying I am looking for workers, the Public Service Commission is the one that must be able to do that and the Minister of Finance must come in with the much needed funds.
If you look at the results that he posted following the announcements of the 2020 Grade Seven results and the high prevalence of zero pass rates in Lupane District, Mr. Ndhlovu of Lupane State University carried out a research on the possible causes of high failure rate and observed that. This is important and I must commend the researcher for coming up with this because it gives us some information and gives us a basis of where to start as well as where to lobby from.
I would also like to commend Hon. Sithole for having coming up with this report. There were three things; most of the grade seven learners were reading at Grade 3 to Grade 5 level – that is important. So, you think your child is at Grade 7 level, they are not. When they are playing with their friends who are in grade seven, there is a discrepancy in terms of the mental capacity. How do they feel, there is what you call self esteem that you know, when a child is amongst their peers and they are the same age speaking about school, they want to be part of it.
I want to say this that it has mental problems because he does not fit in because those who are Grade 7 and their aptitude is Grade 7 - he is Grade 7, yet his aptitude is Grade 5 – how does he then fit? He then withdraws from this crowd and suddenly he is affected mentally for life. It is a painful picture because he cannot then play with his friends because he is not part of them intellectually and yet they are at the same level. When they go home, the parents would not have understood why he is quiet, why he is crying, he has his journey alone thinking that I was not part of my peers and all that.
Learners were good at oral responses but poor at written work – for me as a parent, I would probably say to my child let me teach you how to look after cattle, to be a farmer. They are good at written work because there are no resources, text books are not there, and the parents in the rural areas are not funded in terms of this. This comes to the issue of Section 27 of the Constitution, if I am not mistaken, which talks about the right to education. The right to education without resources provided means nothing. We come here and talk about the right to education. We are saying that children must not be banned from going to school.
However, when they go to school what is at school, what have we done in the budget to make sure that we support the resources at the school? They have no textbooks, chalks are not there but they are in school, so there is one thing, us having a constitutional mandate to make sure that kids go to school for free. There is another issue when they go to school, what do they learn with? Who teaches them, is the teacher there?
Now, we are talking about a situation with COVID 19 where we used to say that the ratio really should be 1:40 and now it is 1:35 and it is split classes. There is no teacher, there is no student, no matter how brilliant they are, who will be able to achieve what they need to achieve. The whole purpose of education is to get people to understand, not to pass. When they say you must just have O levels so that you basically understand certain things - you do not have to be an A student, but you need to be able to understand certain things - that is what education is about.
Education is not about attaining but it is basic education which makes you understand the world, country and what it is. So with COVID-19 now, you have a teacher who splits. Hon. Members, this situation cannot continue, we are lying to ourselves and to the nation being in this House thinking that the condition is sustainable. It is not sustainable, the teacher is now splitting himself into two classes of 15 minutes each – there is a shortage of teachers. How does the school children absorb anything? When we went to school, your teacher was always present in class; today 15 minutes the teacher is there, he needs 3 minutes to get to the next class to get another 12 minutes, they do not even get the 15 minutes needed.
With COVID we needed to really look and that is the reason why we listen to what other countries were doing instead of coming up with our own solution, we wanted to please the world and not our people. We could have halted these exams, we could have stopped education until people got back when it is on equal terms but the discrepancy which is there and the gap which has been created is unbelievable. I believed in the Government system, I took my children to Greystone Park School in Harare. Only one day - I got home, my son walked from school, which was dangerous for him to walk but I was happy because he knew his way home because he is always in a car going to school. I asked him why he was not in school and he said, “my class is in the afternoon.” I went to the school and said to the headmaster; I will never stop supporting this school but unfortunately I have to transfer my kids to a riding school because I cannot as a parent think of my child walking seeing that he has to go back for an afternoon lesson. Great headmaster, great school, great results but for the future of my kids, I had to say no, I have to pack my bags and go. I will continue to support the school; it is not your fault. We as leaders have got to do something to change this so that there can be hope for you. The Speaker always says our Parliament must always be world class Parliament but our Parliament must also give hope to people. May we give hope to these children? I want to applaud once again, Hon. Sithole for such a contribution which touches on real issues on the ground and many Members of Parliament who have really moved this. May we also elevate to the next level making sure that when the budget is being done, we accommodate this so that this is sustainable and we take corrective measures.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I will not be long. I would like to just add my voice to the motion as presented by the two Hon. Members. My first take which I would like to bring to the table is the issue of the teacher ratio to pupils. While we listen to the debates that are mainly centered on issues pertaining to established schools, both urban and rural, where I have a problem is that there are huge areas of informal settlements where the school infrastructure has remained as it was 30 years ago. In my own constituency I have a situation with one school which is called a satellite school and has under 1 000 children in six classes, but the problem does not rest there, there is nothing else other than the rudimentary building of six classes. We have one headmaster who is rotated regularly and is paid by the State. The rest of the teachers are paid by the parents. Now, this sort of issue is inherent across many areas and that is our fundamental problem. As soon as we have that issue of that number of children hot-sitting in those classrooms we are at a massive disadvantage with education, the future of our children. I would like to reiterate what numerous Hon. Members have said, the issue of not paying attention to our education system for the benefit of our budget has to be redressed and redressed quickly.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Shamu and Hon.
Nyabani, may you maintain your social distancing.
(v)HON. MARKHAM: We are stealing from the future of our children. I have a major issue with the teachers. The teachers have an issue where they are worried about their salaries. Fundamental issues like housing, pension funds, medical aid and transport all build up into a package to encourage the teachers to do their job. At the moment, most teachers have a secondary line of income not because they want to, but out of necessity. So you will find a lot of teachers are actually more desperate for their vending business than they are to educate our children.
The other issue we have and it all relates to resources, is some of our schools have not received any books for years and years other than that given to us by multilateral agencies and we have to redress this. I am very concerned with the Government policy when it comes to teachers as in the civil servant. There is a basic ban, reduction or resistance to recruit more people. We have more children therefore we need more teachers. There are numerous teachers who are unemployed and cannot get onto the payroll. This leads now and particularly in my constituency we have a mushrooming not only of private schools or semiprivate schools, but also unregistered schools and as a result, in desperation, parents are paying for these schools to operate in order to get their children educated. This is what I would like to recommend, let us, in the next budget, play absolute attention to the existing schools and see what is required.
In my constituency, not one school and I am fortunate that I represent a low density suburb and a high density suburb, where we have an issue which covers both is when it comes to technical subjects and in technical subjects I mean agriculture, sewing, domestic science and chemistry. Most schools are totally incapable of teaching those subjects correctly because of lack of resources and it is imperative because those are what this country requires. The technical subjects are desperately required by this country and we are stealing from the future to reduce our civil servants right here and as a result, we are not paying the teachers correctly, the parents have a bigger burden and we have a high, massive student to teacher ratio. If I take my high density constituency of Hatcliffe, the ratio of teachers to students is over two and a half times the requirement.
I would like to thank both Members for bringing this to our attention and all the Members who have debated so far. I thank you.
HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
MOTION
DEPLOYMENT OF TEACHERS IN RURAL AREAS
HON. NYABANI: Hon. Chair I rise to move the motion standing in my name that this House:
MINDFUL of the need for strategic intervention in the deployment of teachers in rural areas where the staff turnover is high;
COGNISANT that the Constitution provides for access to education for all citizens regardless of colour and creed;
ACKNOWLEDGING that the staffing of teachers has a direct bearing and linkage on the performance of learners and also the access to education;
FURTHER COGNISANT that most schools in the rural areas such as Rushinga recorded disturbing pass rates which were as low as 3%;
NOW, THEREFORE, Calls upon the Ministries of Public Service,
Labour and Social Welfare and Primary and Secondary Education to:-
- Urgently fill vacant teaching posts in rural and marginalised areas so as to mitigate the challenges of zero percent pass rate;
- Incentivise the condition of service for teachers, particularly for those who volunteer to stay in such places despite the poor living conditions and other related hardships, unlike those who are lured to go to urban centres where transport and other benefits such as extra lessons are readily available;
- Urgently consider benefits such as waiver of tuition fees for teachers with children in government schools; and
- Decentralise recruitment of teachers to the Provinces and Districts in line with the Devolution Policy so that locals benefit.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I second.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to speak concerning the teachers in the rural areas, on how, after the zero percent pass rate of Grade 7 students, the recruitment of teachers in the rural areas is being done. As we all know, teachers are recruited by the Government and that includes those that teach in the rural areas. The way children in rural areas and those in urban areas are taught should be the same throughout the whole country. I am therefore moving this motion so that we look into the recruitment of teachers that teach in the rural areas so that we do not continue having these zero pass rates year after year.
Mr. Speaker Sir, concerning the recruitment of teachers in the rural areas, it has been noted that when teachers are recruited to go and do work in the rural areas, they are recruited here in Harare and it has been noted that when the teacher gets to Rushinga or Binga, what he finds on the ground will be different to what he was expecting because he will no longer be able to speak to his relatives. In the rural areas, the working conditions are deplorable and when that person is in the rural area, he thinks of transferring to the urban area. It has been noted that schools in the rural areas have no teachers anymore. Therefore, I am bringing this motion that why is it that teachers in the rural areas are no longer there for they are very few.
Mr. Speaker, concerning Rushinga you find a school having one teacher from Grade One up to Grade Seven. What do we expect as parents? Are we saying people in the rural areas have no right to education because they are in areas where there is no network or where there is no entertainment. My point of view is that in such areas like
Rushinga, we should have the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education based there so that they analyse how best they can give the right to education to those children. It pains me that when we come here, someone will say people in Rushinga are not learned, so they do not deserve to be given positions. I am here to represent the people of Rushinga as enshrined in the Constitution. Now, it is like people in the towns are the ones with the right to education.
Mr. Speaker, Government should recruit more teachers so that we will not have poor pass rates again in the rural areas. We do not want to see that continuing next year. I do not agree that we are splitting teachers due to COVID-19 because in Rushinga there were no teachers even before this pandemic. I urge the Government to recruit teachers. Let teachers be recruited at the district office. Why are we doing the recruitment at national level? As it is, teachers being recruited in Harare are more powerful than the District School Inspectors.
Madam Speaker, I implore this House to make sure that the
Ministry recruits teachers in rural areas where people like us and Prof. Mutambara learnt. There is no nation that will progress without education. I attended a school in a rural area from mud built classrooms.
We can build our infrastructure but firstly we should have teachers. When you are busy building infrastructure without teachers, what will these learners be doing? It is my advice to the Government that if we want teachers to stay in the rural areas, let us give more allowances to teachers in the rural areas.
Like what was said by Hon. T. Mliswa, let the amount of CDF going to rural areas be more than those of urban areas. Therefore, teachers should get more allowances. Those teachers travel long distances after dropping from the bus and they carry water using buckets from boreholes. There is no connectivity; they climb on mountains for them to access network.
So, Government should give allowances to teachers in the rural areas so that they are motivated. Secondly, let Government allow rural teachers to take their children to Government schools for free. Thirdly, in yesteryears, teachers where recruited from district offices. What is so special that has brought this change? Why is it that the recruitment office is now in Harare only? For example, from Nkayi to Harare, you have to board a bus but how much is that? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – The teacher wants to take his or her child to a boarding school in Nkayi but he is transferred to Rushinga and is expected to give his child money to go to boarding school. Will that teacher stay in Rushinga? Hon. Members, if this Parliament wants to improve the welfare of pupils – unless if we are just here for coupons, I think I am better because I have reached the Parliamentary level but what of my child? I was taught by temporary teachers but right now there are no teachers. I want to say to Government that next year we do not want to talk about the zero percent. I hope what I have said will be taken into consideration.
Mr. Speaker, in my constituency there are more than 300 vacancies for teachers because teachers have transferred and pupils are not learning. Imagine the gild child going to school and remains idle - we will have child abuse cases. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to add my voice to the motion moved by Hon. Nyabani. This motion is premised on the understanding that there is a strong link between the availability of teachers and the pass rate. We were disturbed by a number of schools in the rural areas which recorded 0% to 3% pass rate. This is why we are moving that the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Care and the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should reconsider how they employ teachers in the rural areas and how they also take care of the welfare of teachers who are in the rural areas.
I want to start by adding that we urge the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to create a structural platform whereby there is going to be engagement between the Ministry officials and those who represent teachers, especially those in the rural areas. My understanding is that we already have an association that represents teachers in the rural areas. This association clearly understands what is going on in the rural areas and how its members are being affected by the conditions in the rural areas. Therefore it will be important for the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to have a structural platform for engagement. Through the engagement with teachers in the rural areas, the plight of the teachers which will then also affect the plight of the learners will also be addressed amicably because there will be a proper engagement.
I also add that on the issue of decentralisation I will just add few advantages of decentralising recruitment of teachers. This will allow those who are comfortable with teaching in those areas to choose to be in those areas like Rushinga or Binga where they understand not only the economic situation there but also have an understanding of even the economic culture such that when they think of having other means to cushion their salaries through their own initiatives, they know where to start because they have been used to staying in those areas. Some of them possibly are farmers whose education was funded through fishing or other economic activities that are peculiar to the respective rural areas.
So it will be difficult to have someone who went to Warren Park High and is deployed to Rushinga. It will be difficult for that person to start to learn how to get extra money through the economic activities which they are not familiar with in the respective environment. So it will be an advantage because those teachers will be willing to stay longer in those schools and it will be an advantage to our learners in rural areas. Therefore this issue should be considered seriously to give people who would want to volunteer to be in those areas. Some of them are used to harsh weather conditions. If you go to areas like Dande, those areas are characterised by very high temperatures such that someone who is not used to those high temperatures will not be comfortable staying in such areas. This is why we are saying it will be important for the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to consider decentralisation of recruitment of teachers.
I also want to add on the issue of non-monetary incentives. In other countries they call those incentives hardship allowances. It is actually hard for someone to be working for government in rural areas where there is no transport, network and a whole lot of other things. So to attract more teachers to stay in those areas, government should come up with non-monetary incentives. This is where we are pleading with the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Care and Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education to consider provision of hardship allowance and other non monetary incentives.
If you compare teachers who are in rural areas to those in urban areas, those in urban areas have opportunities to cushion what they get from government and they also have other advantages because for example in Harare there is subsidised transport, something that might not be available in most rural areas. You will find that in some areas, there is only one bus. If they miss that bus, then they have to wait for another day, but in urban areas we have teachers benefitting from subsidised transport. They also have a choice even when they want to buy groceries they go to different shops which is different from life that those in rural areas have to endure.
It is therefore important that government looks into the possibility of providing non monetary incentives, so that they can attract more teachers to stay longer in rural schools. Without these monetary incentives we will continue to have problems where schools will have a shortage of teachers and this will continue to affect future generations because our children will not be able to attain the pass rate that we expect in the rural areas. Madam Speaker Ma-am we believe this is an important motion which we think should be seriously considered by this House. We also urge the two Ministries to consider the issues affecting rural teachers so that in a few years to come, we can address the problem of 0% to 3% pass rate. I thank you.
*HON. MUCHENJE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add
my voice on the motion brought by Hon. Sithole about the rural areas. It pains us as parents on educational issues. They are not taken seriously. As representatives of people and as parents as well, we have to stand together with people. The issue of overpopulation in schools in rural areas is because most people have migrated from urban areas, to rural areas. Government should have ensured that when people migrate to rural areas, they should go to growth points so that in the urban areas it is not overcrowded. We also want to look at the issue of teachers in the rural areas. The number of teachers did not increase in these rural areas. They have accommodation challenges and sometimes you would find that two families would be sharing one cottage, which we may say there is no privacy of the family. They would know how each family would relate to their spouses. Each family should have their own separate accommodation. This will also lead to unnecessary commotion or misbehaviour where you find boys and girls sleeping in the same room because of lack of accommodation. If you check the children going to school in these rural areas – as I said, some teachers go to teaching practice, you would hear that they are not supposed to go to schools far from tarred roads or from network because supervisors want to see them closer. It was better if these teachers go for teaching practice in rural areas because it increases the number of rural teachers. Therefore, I am requesting Government to consider the road infrastructure so that children in the rural and farming areas also get them the necessary attention as those in urban areas. We used to learn even when our parents were in town because the population was limited but now the population is vast both in urban and rural areas. For example, when I grew up I gave birth to six children and amongst my children, one might have six, one having four. If you add that number, you will find that the number multiplies in that family. Government should consider all these things. I personally represent the urbanisation of rural areas so that people should be not be migrating to town. If they stay in rural areas where there are good roads, good schools and availability of water, then children will also learn properly.
We allowed exams to be written saying that children were learning through online, but as an MP representing a rural constituency, you will find that some of the children do not even know how to operate the phone but we still insist that these learners were learning online. We are being retrogressive because there is no difference with what used to be Group A schools and Group B schools. You will find that the poor remains poor and the rich are going ahead richer. As parliamentarians, we should continue coming up with ways that benefit everyone. Our infrastructure should be developed. The energy Ministry should install solar systems in schools so that learners can learn even at night. The Ministry of Water should also connect water in schools even flush toilets, not a situation where we have a child refusing to get into the urban toilets because he is used to blair toilets.
The issue of composite classes, because teachers do not want to go to rural areas, you will find one teacher teaching all these children. When someone has taken those classes, he is just doing it not out of his own will but he has been forced. He will not practice what he was taught at college because you will find one class would be having 50 learners. What more if there are three classes, that means they will have
150 learners. I have three children but they give me a lot of headaches. What more of the teacher looking at 150 learners. How much is the teacher getting considering that all professions come from the teacher?
Yet he is the one who is supposed to take care of every child regardless of where that child is coming from, whether disciplined or undisciplined, the teacher has to take care of that child. We know that the teacher is doing a great job, he should be given good money. Teachers, just like domestic workers, should be treated well so that he/she does not destroy your family. School children also need to be well taken care of. This time is the winter season and a teacher will be having two classes. How do you suppose the teacher will teach whole-heartedly in such an environment? Let this Government prioritise education. I know of some teachers who have a calling and I remember a certain teacher who even when she was not feeling well she would go to work, then there are some teachers who just joined the teaching fraternity for lack of better work and such teachers are allocated three classes – nothing will come out of those classes.
Right now, people should have recreational centres so that when we have several homes in different places, children can go there and learn. We want our children to learn. Truly speaking, currently most parents who reside in the urban areas believe that living in the rural areas is unworthy but Zimbabwe, we can make it. For example, if you take a child to a rural boarding school, you will find that he/she will pass better than a child who is attending boarding school in an urban area because of the different environments. The learner will know that when I go to a rural boarding school, he/she is there specifically for learning. Therefore, if we do not urbanise the rural areas, we will have failed as Zimbabwe.
I want to say this firstly that, let rural schools be modern schools with water and hygiene; let us have solar systems in place for our electricity, road networks improved and lastly let us have health centres. Currently, some learners are on ART taking ARVs. The schools do not have health centres and if a child happens to break a leg, he/she will be ferried by his colleagues to health centres. With these few words, let us try to change our rural schools so that they are modernised because a lot of people have migrated to rural areas and the rural population has increased. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker
Ma’am. I would like to add my voice to the motion that was tabled by
Hon. Nyabani. When we look at educational issues, it is very painful because education is the back bone of our children. When we say we want doctors and engineers, it all starts from education and if we fail to provide that, we will have killed our nation.
Personally, I think we have devolution and I hope that if these teachers are coming from the areas that they work at, he/she will work hard in order to improve his area. I want to encourage the Government to continue deploying teachers from those areas where vacancies are. For example, in my constituency they contact me asking which teachers to employ for certain vacancies but here is the issue, our schools are in bad state. I want to support the previous speaker who said when we have distribution of CDF, we should consider where these Members of Parliament are coming from, looking at the size of the area and the bigger the area, the more money they should be allocated. We have Members of Parliament from resettlement areas which areas are very remote such that schools in these areas have improper infrastructure to an extent that during winter, learners fail to attend lessons because of the weather. Let CDF be allocated according to the size of constituencies because no teacher wants to stay in a poorly built house.
We are therefore saying that as Government, let us build proper accommodation so that teachers can come to these schools. Sometimes the Government may have other commitments. Like now, we are faced with COVID-19 and some of the allocated funds have been channeled towards fighting against the pandemic. There is also the issue of teachers not attending lessons and this should be addressed. If it is about salaries,
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I think we all know that teachers are underpaid. So, we are saying let us give the teachers reasonable salaries, considering where they buy commodities because in the rural areas prices are high. Teachers in the rural areas should have an allowance because where they buy their commodities compared to us here is very expensive. When commodities are expensive, the teacher will not have enough money to look after his family and he will now start going to find other means.
We also want to consider the issue of transport. These teachers should be given loans to buy cars so that they can travel and see their families who will be far away. So they should be given these loans so that if they want to buy bicycles, let them buy bicycles. In my submission, I think let us give them what enables them to work in those rural areas. I also want to look at the learning environment. There is what we call hot sitting. I think as parents, we can construct temporary shades so that all learners learn at the same time instead of having hot sitting because this is disadvantaging other learners, especially those who go in the afternoon.
As parents, let us help schools in our surroundings so that the learners can learn in a conducive environment. We have discussed that let teachers’ salaries be increased. If here in Parliament do not agree that teachers’ salaries be increased, it will not happen. Let us say that money for schools should be increased and those who are responsible for that money should take the money to the schools. Right now you will find that teachers are segregating learners for extra lessons and only those who can afford extra-lesions are the ones that are learning.
We are saying if the teacher is found teaching extra lessions having been paid a good salary, he/she should be taken for disciplinary measures. Right now, they are doing it secretly and parents are complaining about these extra lesions because they come to the Member of Parliament complaining of these teachers having extra lessons because they cannot afford to pay the money that is required. So, because these learners are not learning, will not come out with good results at the end of the year.
Therefore, we are saying let us have a stop to extra lesions. We should not just investigate in the urban areas because we are close to the urban areas. We should also go to the rural areas. There are some schools that do not even know that there is an inspector. You get there and they will tell you that we have never seen the inspector and they are just in darkness. The teachers are doing whatever they want.
So we are saying let these areas be reachable so that education is accessible to everyone because when it is time to go to university, that child will not go to the university and he/she will never be equal to other learners. We are talking of online learning. This is learning using computers. This is a good way, but if you look at how it is being done in the rural areas, they have no knowledge of online learning or even of the computers.
I think the Ministries concerned should go and inspect these schools in remote areas. We are also saying some schools do not have water and learners carry water to school. Even now during COVID, learners are carrying water in their bottles. I am therefore saying the Government should treat all children equally. They are trying to level areas but not with rural areas. Thank you.
(v)HON. WATSON: Good afternoon Madam Speaker and thank
you for allowing me to add my voice to this motion. I would like to compliment the two Hon. Members who brought the motion on education and the Hon. Members who brought this one, one leading to the other and ironic enough after the Minister of Public Service presented certain facts and figures yesterday in his Ministerial Statement to Parliament. I would like to say that Hon. Mliswa previously in that previous debate mentioned the lack in education, the balance of education up to 1980 and then the great big push from 1980 onwards for greater equality in education. I think sadly that both of these motions show us that in our regard this has slept back quite radically and the figure that the Minister gave us yesterday of numbers of teachers required 50 470 teachers - if you carefully look at that in terms of our education budget, it is a quantum leap and it would actually mean doubling the education budget which is already the biggest part of our budget. So, Hon. Markham in his debate from the previous motion said that when we debate the budget, we should seriously look at the education budget. I think that we need to seriously look at it now, prior to the next budget. We need facts, figures and we need disbursement of schools, we need areas where - the Minister said there are 1800 schools with no infrastructure. Where are those schools? Hon. Markham spoke about this peri-urban part of his constituency and I too have peri-urban areas of my constituency where there are no schools. Access to school for those children means travelling equally as far as children in rural areas travel to get to schools. Equally, all of those schools are under huge pressure and pupil to teacher ratios range from 1:60 and 1:70. That is across primary and across senior schools. So, this is a Zimbabwean problem. It is not just a problem of rural or urban schools.
Actually, for me I think that we created, unfortunately, a situation where education has become the preserve of parents with finances. These are the parents who can afford extra lessons. They are the parents who can afford to move their children from one school to another school. They are the parents who contribute hugely to school development levies, which is something in Parliament we do not talk about. We talk about school fees and increases in school fees. We do not talk about school development levies, which is actually what goes up constantly.
The parents who support the school development levy support the development of schools. Even if the Minister of Finance and Economic Development was in a position to give the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education special money to increase the number of teachers to the required level by an additional 50000 teachers, where is the infrastructure? We are still going to have composite classes because there are not enough classrooms. We are still going to have hot - sitting because we still do not have enough classrooms. These are three things that have come to Parliament yesterday and today, that all lead into each other. I think as Members of Parliament, we need to talk about them with facts, figures, with A + B = C in reality for Zimbabweans. That takes us to a special moment when we get to the next budget with the
Ministry of Finance. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
(v)+HON. G. DUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity that you have given me so that I speak about the motion moved by Hon. Nyabani and seconded by Hon. Hamauswa. Madam Speaker, it is a pity that 41 years after the independence of Zimbabwe, we are here in this House talking about the welfare of teachers in the rural areas. I concur with the Hon. Members who spoke before me that Government should take into consideration the need to treat teachers differently. You will take note that teachers who are brought in the rural areas are people who do not come from those areas. This means they travel long distances. Especially the district where I come from, Hwange West, the conditions for teachers are so bad. Teachers work hard and some of them have to pay something like US$15 so that they move from one place to another.
Madam Speaker, we also want to take into consideration that teachers who teach in rural areas, the student to teacher ratio is big compared to teachers who teach in urban areas. You find one teacher having 100 students per class. As they do their day to day work as teachers, you will realise that they are doing their duties on an empty stomach because the salaries that they earn are not enough to buy themselves proper meals. It is very difficult for teachers who teach in rural areas to commit themselves fully to their day to day activities. We are therefore appealing to the Government to re-consider the salaries that are given to teachers in rural areas.
They should also consider when they are hiring teachers in rural areas to take teachers who are coming from the same community. There is need to recruit qualified teachers who are living in that community who are native speakers of the language that is being spoken in that community so that the students can benefit.
You will realise that during weekends, most teachers have to get part time jobs so that they can sustain themselves. By doing that, they actually get respect. Teachers are supposed to be respected professionals but because of the salaries that they get, they are not respected in their communities. Hence, there is need to upgrade their salaries. Even the teaching aids, for example the textbooks that they have, you will realise that per class, there is only one textbook that the students have to share. How then do we expect the teachers to perform well and produce good results?
Teachers who are working in rural areas also have difficulties in getting water. They have to walk something like 30 kilometres to fetch water. They do not have electricity and most of them depend on firewood. Teaching is one profession but now you realise we are having two groups. Those who are teaching in rural areas are not given good packages that can sustain them and you realise that those who are working in urban areas are actually benefiting more. At the same time, we expect these teachers to produce good results. How do we expect them as a nation to perform under such working conditions?
In some rural areas, the community will end up looking for teachers who can assist and do extra lessons for their children so that they can perform well during exams. We are therefore burdening the community because it comes as a burden on their shoulders. All they want is betterment for their students. Hence they end up looking for teachers to do extra lessons for their children. We are therefore encouraging those who are responsible for hiring teachers, that it is high time you start taking those qualified teachers who are not currently working from the community and also the native speakers of the same community so that even the community benefit from that. It is very important for the teachers to understand even the native language that is being spoken around the community. Why taking someone who does not understand even a single word of that community and you expect the person to teach, especially if they are ECD pupils using English only.
They cannot even understand the native language that is being spoken in that community. There is need to take teachers who are native speakers of the language that is being spoken in that community.
On resource allocation, it also helps in building the infrastructure in schools if we allocate resources according to schools. It is my wish that Government prioritises the welfare of teachers. Where I come from, you will realise that what teachers call a meal is not at all a proper meal.
All these are implications of low salaries which they get. I thank you.
(v)*HON. SAIZI: Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Nyabani and seconded by Hon. Hamauswa. We have a problem that we have trained teachers who are all over the country but they are not absorbed in the system. If we look at what happened in the past, there was an allegation that because of COVID-19, the young girls at tender ages were married off but this is now going to happen again. Many boys especially in Muzarabani where I come from, are now doing whatever they can to get money. Parents no longer encourage children to go to school because they do not see the benefit. They have other children who are still loitering yet they have trained as teachers.
If we look in the past, there was no shortage of teachers. Many people who occupy high offices right now were once teachers but right now, we have a lot of trained teachers who cannot be absorbed by the system. That shortage of teachers is leading to children doing whatever they want and they no longer go to school. So, what sort of generation are raising? How do we expect these children to inherit the future of this country when they have shunned going to school? This is a sad thing. If we do not handle this issue very well as a country, we will go down history in a negative way.
All along we were boasting as a country because of our high literacy rate in Africa, but where we are right now, we are making a generation that will be a laughing stock in the whole world. That issue of making use of CDF has been debated properly and we can go a long way that way. I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
(v)HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam for
giving me this opportunity to contribute to this debate which was raised by Hon. Nyabani and seconded by Hon. Hamauswa. Let me say in the past, in the rural areas, I was also a teacher for a long time, in this country as well as abroad. In the past, teachers who had just graduated were not allowed to be employed in the urban areas. They were supposed to spend two or three years in the rural areas so that the rural areas will did not have untrained teachers only to ensure that pupils were taught by trained teachers.
That policy should be brought back so that all those who would have just completed teachers’ training should go to the rural areas as a form of national service. The pass rate of children is determined by how the teachers work. In my constituency, I have noticed that in the rural areas children passed very well and some went all the way to achieve even 10 points. If teachers have not committed themselves to teach, we could not have obtained such a pass rate. Teachers must have passion for teaching. In some areas, teachers do not care about their work.
Sometimes we are told that a teacher goes to school a few days of the week. Some of them even go to work whilst drunk and you wonder how they are going to teach in such a state. We should urge teachers to be exemplary. Some teachers are raping girls and girls end up dying whilst giving birth. I would like to say a teacher is an exemplary person in society. So I encourage them to be exemplary especially in the rural areas.
Despite all that in the rural areas, teachers in rural areas can get all the material that can assist them to work properly. They should get access to water, power or electricity. They should also be given an allowance for staying in the rural areas so that they earn higher than teachers in the urban areas and they will be motivated wherever they are.
We should also alleviate their plight for transport, travelling to urban area from the rural areas will be very expensive. Let us also ensure that they get an allowance for transport so that it alleviates their transport needs. In the absence of enough materials for work that should not be given as an excuse for teachers not to work. There is no country in this world that pays teachers adequately. I am saying this because I taught in England for more than 10 years. I was a teacher there - after teaching, you will still have to look for another job in order to supplement your salary. I am talking about a developed country, what more of a developing country like Zimbabwe? Let us teach with passion in order that our children develop. The Constituency Development Fund should not be allocated as CDF. Let CDF be dedicated to things like schools, hospitals and roads so that our children in schools will get better classrooms facilities. The Devolution Funds that are being disbursed to local authorities, we are not even seeing what the money is used for. In my constituency I have not seen how the funds have been used. We hear that funds have been disbursed. They should be disbursed for specific areas like roads and infrastructure development. I thank you.
HON. NYABANI: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Madam Speaker, I move that we revert to
Order of the Day No. 13 on today’s Order Paper.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE 55TH SESSION OF THE ACP PARLIAMENTARY
ASSEMBLY AND THE 38TH SESSION OF THE ACP-EU JOINT
PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY HELD IN RWANDA HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Madam Speaker, I move the motion
in my name that this House takes note of the report on the 55th Session of the ACP Parliamentary Assembly and the 38th Session of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly, held from 14th to 21st
November, 2019, in Kigali Rwanda.
HON. NYABANI: I second.
HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Introduction
Meetings of the 55th Session of the ACP Parliamentary Assembly and 38th Session of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly were convened in Kigali, Rwanda from 14 to 21 November 2019 at the Kigali International Convention Centre.
The following Members, Official from the Embassy of the Republic of
Zimbabwe and Officers of Parliament attended:-
Hon. Rtd. General Michael R. Nyambuya, Deputy President of the
Senate and Head of Delegation;
Hon. Priscilla Moyo, Member of Parliament;
Hon. Trevor Saruwaka, Member of Parliament;
Mr. M. Mukura, Deputy Ambassador of Zimbabwe to Belgium; Ms. Rudo N. E. Doka, Acting Principal Director – External Relations and Delegation Secretary, and
Mr. Mufaro Hove, Security Aide to the Deputy President of the Senate.
The ACP Assembly and the ACP – EU Joint Parliamentary
Assembly considered the resolutions that had been drafted by the three
Standing Committees:-
The Impact of Social Media on Governance, Development,
Democracy and Stability;
- Sustainable Industrialisation and digitalization : The Approach and Industrialisation and Digitalisation Policies for ACP
Countries; and
- Promoting the Active Participation of Young Citizens in Public Life in ACP and EU Countries.
Address by Hon. Lt. Gen. (Rtd) Michael R. Nyambuya to the
ACP Parliamentary Assembly on the situation in Zimbabwe
Hon. Lt. Gen. (Rtd) M. R. Nyambuya addressed delegates to the ACP Assembly and briefed them about the situation in Zimbabwe following the ushering in of a new political dispensation under the leadership of H.E. President E. D. Mnangagwa.
He referred to the harmonized Presidential, Parliamentary and local government elections of 30 July 2018 which saw various African and European election observer missions being invited to Zimbabwe. The missions submitted their recommendations on the conduct of elections in Zimbabwe, some of which the government is in the process of implementing. The Assembly was also informed about how the election outcome was challenged and that the Constitutional Court ultimately declared the ZANU (PF) Party as the winner of the elections.
The unfortunate incident of 01 August 2018 where lives were lost in a protest march and the subsequent setting up of a Commission of Inquiry chaired by the former President of South Africa, Kgalema Montlanthe was also highlighted. The Assembly was updated that recommendations were submitted and the government is in the process of implementing.
The leader of the delegation implored ACP delegates to support Zimbabwe in its quest for the removal of sanctions which have brought untold suffering to Zimbabweans.
Delegates were also informed about efforts to revive the economy through the Transitional Stabilization Programme (TSP), covering the period 2018 to 2020 with the aim of achieving an Upper Middle Income Economy by 2030. Broadly, the TSP addresses improved governance and rule of law; upholding freedoms of expression and association; peace and national unity; respect for human and property rights; political and economic engagement with the global community; creation of a competitive and friendly business environment; enhanced domestic and foreign investment; and an aggressive fight against all forms of corruption.
He concluded by requesting the ACP family to support Zimbabwe as the country moves towards addressing the fundamentals of the economy and re-engagement of the international community.
Official Opening Ceremony
In his remarks during the Official Opening Ceremony, Hon. Carlos Zorrinho, Co-President of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly, said that the Forum has a duty to fulfill the aspirations of the ACP and EU citizens. He emphasized the need to draw up a new agreement which is fully compliant with Agenda 2030 and to work in a coordinated manner at all levels to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals
(SDGs) and address climate, economic, migration, social and security challenges facing societies. He paid tribute to the Rwandan authorities for the sterling efforts in organising the session, their warm hospitality and alluded to the commemoration of the 25th anniversary of the 1994 genocide.
The President of the Senate of Rwanda welcomed delegates on behalf of His Excellency, the President, Paul Kagame, and expressed deep gratitude for their presence in Rwanda. He implored delegates to re-think the modalities of the new partnership, take ownership of the priorities and challenges faced by their countries and define solutions. The importance of taking action and implementation of development strategies was underscored. He quoted President Kagame who said that our countries are not poor, but rather are held back by mentalities and the way business is done in Africa.
The delegates were informed about how Rwanda had resolutely taken charge of their own destiny, post-genocide, through a social contract which enshrines the fundamental principles of national unity, rule of law, zero tolerance to corruption and the policy of leaving no one behind. He said that it is up to each country to shape its own destiny in order to meet the aspirations of its citizens in creating conditions and an environment necessary to improve the quality of their lives. He referred to how Rwanda had drawn lessons from its history with humility and dignity and wished all the delegates fruitful deliberations and a pleasant stay in Rwanda. He subsequently declared the 55th Session of the ACP-
EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly officially open.
Speeches
Speech by Commissioner Neven Mimica, Member of the
Commission responsible for International Cooperation and Development - Commissioner Mimica highlighted to the Assembly that the ACP-EU partnership stands for a shared commitment to human development, values of human rights, democracy, rule of law, inclusiveness and solidarity. The Commissioner observed that although multilateralism is under threat, it is the only way forward in tackling global challenges such as climate change. However, the need to adapt to the new economic, political, technological, environmental and social realities was emphasized in view of the Post Cotonou negotiations.
A new paradigm of development which is inclusive and sustainable, with the SDG framework at its core should shape the future agreement. The need to forge ahead with a partnership which recognizes the dynamics of the three different regions, with different contexts and different needs was noted. The partnership will, therefore, have one single EU-ACP Association Agreement, with a common foundation of values and principles, complemented by three actionoriented regional partnerships: EU-Africa, EU-Caribbean and EUPacific.
She gave an update on the current status of the Post – Cotonou negotiations by highlighting that as Chief EU negotiator, together with the Ministerial ACP central negotiating team, she had been able to agree on the shape of the future agreement. This includes regional partnerships and the text on all the priorities at foundation level, except one. The one remaining politically very sensitive priority was migration and mobility, but good progress had been made and the negotiating team was close to finalizing the text. The Joint Parliamentary Assembly was notified about the expiry of the current Cotonou Agreement on 29 February 2020 and assured that transitional measures had been put in place to ensure legal and political continuity of the Cotonou ACP-EU
Partnership until the new agreement comes into force.
She concluded her speech by bidding farewell to the Joint
Parliamentary Assembly and introduced her successor Jutta Urpilainen.
Speech by Rodrigo De Lapuerta, Director - Food and Agriculture Organization Liaison Office to the European Union Joint Parliamentary Alliance.
In his presentation on the state of food security and nutrition in the context of sustainable agricultural production, he highlighted that FAO aims to promote sustainable agriculture and food systems to ensure healthy and safe food for all, while preserving our planet’s natural resources. Given that hunger and malnutrition are on the rise and that 2 billion people, 26% of the population, do not have regular access to safe, nutritious and sufficient food; and that overweight and obesity are truly an epidemic, the FAO has found it necessary to call for urgent and collective action to rethink and transform global food systems.
He alluded to the fact that if production and consumption patterns are not changed for better, healthier and sustainable food, we will not be able to either nourish people or nurture our planet. Agriculture was identified as a significant driver of deforestation, biodiversity loss and greenhouse gas emissions, thus, the need to bring together all actors, including parliamentarians, to address climate change adaptation, mitigation, food security and land degradation in a holistic manner.
He pledged the support of the EU and FAO to continue to work closely with ACP countries to enhance sustainable food systems, innovation and women’s empowerment; to strengthen South-South and triangular cooperation; and to mobilise the private sector in the right direction, for instance, Voluntary Guidelines on the Responsible Governance of Tenure and Responsible Agricultural Investments to nourish the people and nurture the planet.
The strategic role of Parliamentarians, according to the FAO, is to approve the right policies, set up legal and institutional frameworks and allocate appropriate resources towards a more sustainable planet.
Statement on Behalf of the President in Office of the ACP Council of Ministers
Oliver Nduhungirehe, Secretary of State in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation of the Republic of Rwanda delivered a Statement on behalf of the President in Office of the ACP Council of Ministers.
The Secretary of State highlighted the principal objective of the ACP group of states in the Post-Cotonou negotiations, which is to reach an agreement that will contribute to the attainment of sustainable development in all ACP countries.
The provisions of Agenda 2030 and Sustainable Development
Goals were referred to as the compass for ACP countries.
In terms of the regional negotiations, the African region will focus on Agenda 2063 as its reference point. Reference was made to the 7th Summit of ACP Heads of State and Government who underscored the importance of culture and sustainable development and adopted the key words, “No future without culture.” Inequality was identified as a threat to democracy and peace and the JPA was called upon to address extreme economic imbalances in order to achieve economic development and peace.
Statement by Pekka Haavisto, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Finland, Representing the Council of the European
Union
In his statement, Hon. Haavisto said that Climate is one of the defining issues of our time and requires urgent and robust international action to fight it collectively.
ACP and EU partners account for more than one hundred partners, which is over half of the UN Member States, and should take advantage of this weight to launch the positive dynamics required to create the conditions for more climate ambition and action in 2020.
The need for a strong commitment to implement the Paris Agreement fully and effectively was reiterated, following the recognition that sustainable development is inextricably linked to climate action. Youth centred policies are now necessary in view of the rising calls for youth engagement and inclusion for the credibility and sustainability of decisions, policies and activities.
On migration, he acknowledged that this is a global phenomenon presenting both challenges and opportunities but requires global approaches and solutions, including fighting its root causes. Referring to new threats to international and regional peace and security, particularly the growing terrorist threats and transboundary criminal activities including cyber-crime, he alluded that these require multi-lateral cooperation and the ACP-EU partnership is an ideal framework to address them.
With regards to the future framework of the ACP-EU partnership, he said, “This is a key strategic moment to define the basis for further developing our common priorities and for an even-closer relationship that will address the key challenges of each region.” The Regional Partnerships will be attached to the main agreement as protocols, providing an opportunity to focus on specific issues and concerns of each region. The African Continent was singled out as one of the main priorities for Europe in the context of post-Cotonou.
Resolutions
The impact of Social Media on Governance, Development, Democracy and Stability whilst populations across the world have tremendously benefitted from the speed at which information is disseminated through social media, new challenges such as the proliferation of fake news, cyberattacks, xenophobic discourses and even election meddling by ill-intended actors have also been created. Furthermore, access to social media remains unequal from both the gender and geographical perspectives. Societies are struggling to find ways to control the negative impacts of social media whilst protecting freedom of speech. The Joint Parliamentary Assembly agreed on the need for urgent action to set up online defence strategies and to develop media literacy programmes for all in order to fully benefit from the opportunities that social media has to offer.
It is in this regard that governments of the ACP and EU countries were called upon to ensure access to internet for all, through adequate public policies and regulatory frameworks, investment in infrastructure and programmes that target access to electricity and affordable internet connectivity, in particular in rural and remote areas. Governments were also urged to include young people in internet governance decisionmaking processes and educate them on safe use of the internet.
All parties and governments were called upon to tackle hate speech and online xenophobia and ensure the protection of all citizens in particular minorities, migrants, refugees and women on social media platforms.
With regards to disinformation, fake news and fake accounts, the joint assembly recommended that governments and social media companies should collaborate to establish robust mechanisms for countering disinformation, fake news and fake accounts. Investment in research on digital innovation to respond to disinformation, raise awareness and counteract current trends undermining access to reliable information for internet users should be increased.
The meeting emphasized the need to pro-actively develop online defence strategies to deal with cyber threats. Other strategies such as putting in place appropriate legal frameworks, promotion of greater cybersecurity awareness and know-how by building capacity to deal with threats were also recommended.
National security agencies were encouraged to co-operate and share information with global partners to find common defence mechanisms to prevent and respond to cyber threats. It was also recommended that they should establish a joint online platform for internet security.
Sustainable Industrialization and Digitalization: The Approach and Industrialisation and Digitalisation Policies for ACP Countries. Given the fact that sustainable industrialization and adequate digitalization infrastructures are crucial to social and economic development for ACP countries, the Joint Assembly found it essential to create inclusive and sustainable strategies on digital infrastructures in order to enhance manufacturing production, find new sustainable ways to diversify productive capacities, improve the trade environment and investment climate and provide I.C.T access to all. This was agreed upon in line with global commitments such as the United Nations
Sustainable Development Goal Number 9, which stresses the importance of technology, innovation and access to information and communication technologies for sustainable economic and social development across all industries.
ACP and EU countries were, therefore, requested to urgently implement strategies and policies to develop institutions for inclusive and sustainable industrialisation and digitalisation, so as to increase their integration into the digital world economy through production of goods and access to digital technologies for all, in particular for micro, small and medium-sized enterprises. ACP countries, in particular, were called upon to develop national and regional digital start-up incubation centres and innovation hubs, with a view to boosting manufacturing in the Global Value Chain (GVC). ACP and EU Countries were called upon to consider cooperation in the fields of technology, artificial intelligence, automation as well as research and development.
However, countries were also requested to take note of the risks and negative effects associated with digital technologies which account for an increasing share of global energy use and greenhouse gas emissions and the generation of waste worldwide which pose health and environmental challenges. It is in this regard that ACP and EU member states were called upon to strengthen their programmes of cooperation in digital matters and promote the exchange of best practices and effective tools such as the General Data Protection Regulation on data protection. ACP countries need to develop safeguards and national and international education and vocational training plans to mitigate the social, economic, security, financial and environmental risks provoked by digitalized industrialization. The EU needs to extend joint actions in digital infrastructure cooperation with the ACP countries in order to upscale capacity – building and technical assistance to developing countries in the domains of data privacy and data protection, with due respect for their sovereignty.
Promoting the Active Participation of Young Citizens in Public
Life in ACP and EU Countries.
The Joint Parliamentary Assembly noted that young people in ACP countries make up a large majority of the population, and are at the forefront of the fight against climate change. They are capable of driving the agenda of SDGs and are key participants in the delivery of human development targets and goals, accomplishment of gender equality, girls and women’s empowerment and children’s rights. The assembly also noted that young people are primarily affected by poverty, inequality, the scourge of unemployment and a lack of opportunities amongst other challenges. It was in light of the above that the joint assembly noted the need to ensure that they become active citizens from an early age and should be empowered to improve their own lives by representing and advocating for their own needs and interests.
The assembly recommended the inclusion of young voices in the post-Cotonou negotiations and the implementation of the future partnership. The need to strengthen educational and cultural exchanges between students, post-graduates, researchers and those in professional training between ACP and EU countries was reiterated. Countries were urged to invest in human capital and to help young people develop the skills they need to participate in political debate and decision-making processes, while paying special attention to keeping girls in school.
Member states were implored to encourage the political participation of young women and to combat harassment of female public figures both in political domain and online. The European
Commission, European Investment Bank, the African Development Bank and other relevant institutions were called upon to provide microcredit schemes for young people with a particular focus on youth entrepreneurship, make the schemes easily accessible to young candidates, as well as schemes to promote gender mainstreaming and to offer technical assistance and micro-counseling.
Emphasis should be placed on reforming political structures and legislative frameworks to make them more inclusive and motivate young people to increase their political participation. Investment by the public and private sectors should be more strategically targeted with a focus on youth and on creating the highest potential for sustainable job creation.
The need to invest in civic education, encourage and support the work of youth associations, creating youth parliaments and youth councils as consultative bodies in order to increase the political participation of young people was stressed. In the same vein, a proposal was made for the European Parliament to invite young ACP representatives to attend both the European Youth Event and the
European Youth Parliament as observers.
The inclusion of young people in ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assemblies, nomination of candidates to attend the youth conferences of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly to ensure cross-continental youth representation and the need to provide financial support for youth delegates on an annual basis, was encouraged. The Joint Parliamentary
Assembly also encouraged the implementation of the African Youth Charter.
Challenges Addressed at COP 25, United Nations Conference on Climate Change
The Joint Parliamentary Assembly noted the devastating effects of climate change on developing countries, including ACP countries, which has impacted negatively on agricultural productivity, caused food insecurity, damaged infrastructure and has caused floods and droughts. Member states were in agreement that climate change is an existential challenge facing humanity and that all states worldwide need to do their utmost to fight it. International cooperation, solidarity and joint action to preserve the planet are indispensable.
The JPA recommended the engagement of non-state actors and actively involve them in defining and implementing climate action policy. On climate finance, member states expressed concern that developed countries’ pledges of financing for climate action in developing countries, from public and private sources, still do not sum up to USD100 billion per year by 2020.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates that fuel fossil subsidies are behind 28% of global carbon emissions, distort effective competition and create disincentives to investments in carbon neutral technologies. ACP and EU countries were, therefore, urged to phase out fossil fuel subsidies and called upon to invest more in off-grid and decentralized small-scale renewable energy generation.
With regards to policy coherence for development and the climate, the need to respect the principle of policy coherence for development between development, trade, agriculture, energy and climate policies was stressed. An agricultural model based on local production, short supply chains, small and medium sized holdings and a production system that is both people and environmentally friendly was encouraged.
The EU was urged to scale up its assistance to domestic food production, targeting its support to small scale farmers, access to and control over locally-adapted seeds and natural resources, crop diversification, agro-forestry and agro-ecological practices. Member states were called on to assess the consistency of existing and future agreements with the Paris Agreement and to ensure that existing trade rules and agreements become fully compatible with both the Paris Agreement and Agenda 2030. Commitments in trade agreements should apply without prejudice to non-discriminating policy action towards accomplishing these aims in order to make trade an effective tool to achieve SDGs.
Climate policies should be biodiversity proof and ACP and EU countries should develop ecosystem based approaches to climate change mitigation and adaptation strategy. Given the alarming rate at which the world’s forests are deteriorating, the key role of sustainable forestry and land use in tackling global CO2 emissions was highlighted and member states were urged to step up forest protection measures, intensify reforestation and improve forest management strategies.
In terms of knowledge sharing, technology transfers, disaster prevention and preparedness, developed countries were called on to step up their efforts for collaborative research, knowledge-sharing, capacity building and knowledge transfer to developing countries, thereby honoring the Paris Agreement and the Addis Ababa Action Agenda on financing for developing. Governments, in turn, should invest in capacity building, disaster prevention and preparedness and integrate disaster risk reduction strategies into their sustainable development policies at national, regional and local level.
ACP and EU countries were called upon to mainstream the gender perspective into climate policies and to promote the participation of indigenous women and women’s rights defenders within the UNFCCC Framework.
Youth Conference
The youth were involved in discussions on how to become a successful entrepreneur, the importance of self-reliance and selfteaching. The conference underlined the importance of the values of hard work, perseverance, discipline and creativity for the achievement of one’s goals. Three successful young entrepreneurs were introduced as role models and spoke about their experiences. The Ministers of Youth and Culture and of ICT and Innovation, both very young women, were also positive role models.
Women’s Conference
The Women’s Forum focused mainly on the experiences of Rwanda in terms of the elevation of women to key political and decision-making positions, with key enablers being political will, policies and legal frameworks. Article 10 of the Constitution of Rwanda reserves at least 30% of decision-making positions for women but their current Chamber of Deputies has 61% women and 38% in the Senate.
Every ministry is compelled to attach annexures to its budget which show how gender allocations have been done e.g. the health sector should demonstrate that infant and maternal mortality rates have decreased.
Political parties are not allowed to discriminate and they have zero tolerance towards corruption. They have forums such as the Antigenocide Forum, National Women’s Council, Women’s Parliamentary Forum and Women for Women International to assist women, postconflict, with capacity building, confidence building, advocacy, literacy and creating centres for women opportunities.
The major challenges faced by women in Rwanda are lack of confidence and the high illiteracy levels amongst the women population.
Workshops
The Rwandan authorities organized two field visits, one on,
“Sustainable housing and energy”, and the other on, “The horticulture sector in Rwanda.” The first visit to the Karama Integrated Model Village and to the Mount Kigali Power Station provided an example of the technological development and infrastructure programmes that Rwanda is currently implementing to promote sustainable and inclusive development. The second visit to Bella Flowers, which is the only rose farm in the country, demonstrated that although flower production in
Rwanda is still young, the sector has immense potential.
Recommendations
Recommendation | Action | Timeline | |
Climate Change | Given the fact that Climate Change is an existential threat that will spare no country, the relevant portfolio committee should advocate for climate finance to mitigate against the its negative effects on agricultural productivity, food insecurity, floods and droughts, amongst others. Government should be called upon to invest in capacity building, disaster prevention and preparedness and integrate disaster risk reduction strategies into the sustainable development policies at national, regional and local level.
|
2020
|
|
The New Economic Partnership Agreement | The delegation to sensitize
Members in both Houses at Parliament on the new partnership agreement which is fully compliant with Agenda 2030 and to work in a coordinated manner at all levels to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and address climate, economic, migration, social and security challenges facing societies. The delegation to sensitize Parliament on the new focus of the new agreement, which advocates for a strong parliamentary dimension. The idea is to focus on greater scrutiny to ensure legitimacy and bring the partnership closer to the populations that it seeks to serve; and to facilitate a more comprehensive and transparent agreement by involving them at all stages of ACP-EU policies |
2020 |
and activities, from planning and programming to implementation, monitoring and evaluation. | |||
Promotion of sustainable agriculture and food systems to ensure healthy and safe food for all while preserving the
Planet’s natural resources.
|
The need for the Portfolio
Committee on Lands, Agriculture, Climate, Water and Rural Resettlement to be a champion on mitigation against deforestation, propel biodiversity debate on greenhouse gas emissions and all things being climate change adaptation, mitigation, food security and land degradation in a holistic manner. The need for strong commitment to implement the Paris Agreement fully and effectively as a precursor to sustainable development. |
2020 | |
On the impact of Social Media on Governance, Development,
Democracy and Stability |
Parliament of Zimbabwe, in consultation with the relevant ministry, can put in place appropriate legal frameworks to deal with cybersecurity issues and promote greater cybersecurity awareness and know-how by building capacity to deal with threats.
Given the manner in which the media has been revolutionalised due to the effects of social media, which has profoundly changed the way society accesses news, Parliament needs to recommend ways of dealing with the negative effects of social media to counter fake news. National security agencies are encouraged to co-operate and share information with global partners to find common defence mechanisms to prevent and respond to cyber threats and establish a |
2020
|
|
joint online platform for internet security. | |||
Promoting the active participation of young citizens in public life in ACP and EU
Countries
|
It is recommended that the legislature should place emphasis on reforming political structures and legislative frameworks to make them more inclusive and motivate young people to increase their political participation.
The Higher and Tertiary Education Portfolio should recommend the need to strengthen educational and cultural exchanges between students, post-graduates, researchers and those in professional training between ACP and EU countries.
|
2020 | |
Sustainable digitalization Policies for ACP Countries | Given that the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education has already introduced innovation hubs, Parliament has the duty to ensure adequate budget allocations for these centres with the aim of boosting research for innovation and self-reliance and with a view to boost manufacturing in the Global Value Chain (GVC).
|
2020 | |
Gender Mainstreaming
activities |
Parliament of Zimbabwe will carry out an audit to check achievements on gender responsive budgeting; enactment of gender responsive laws; ensuring that family laws are harmonised and aligned to the Constitution of Zimbabwe; campaign and improve awareness against all forms of gender based violence; and improve women participation in politics and decision making. | 2020 |
Regional Meeting
The regional meeting of the ACP-EU JPA was held in Maseru,
Lesotho from 19 to 23 February 2020. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON.
MPARIWA, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 12th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PETITION RECEIVED FROM MR. S. MAKUREYA THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that on 10th
May, 2021, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. S. Makureya of ZANU PF Harare province, petitioning Parliament to exercise its oversight function regarding the amendment of Statutory Instrument 257 of 2020 which provides for benefits of veterans of the liberation struggle. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have received apologies from the
following Ministers:-
-The Hon. Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care
The Hon. Rtd. General Dr. C. G. D. N. Chiwenga,
- The Minister of Defence and War Veterans – Hon. O. C. Z.
Muchinguri-Kashiri,
-Hon. F. M. Shava – The Minister of Foreign Affairs and
International Trade,
-Hon. M. N. Ndlovu – The Minister of Environment, Climate and
Hospitality Industry,
- Kanhutu-Nzenza – The Minister of Industry and
Commerce,
- D. Garwe – The Minister of National Housing and Social
Amenities,
- Sen. C. Mathema – The Minister of Primary and Secondary
Education,
Hon. K. Kazembe – The Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural
Heritage,
-Hon. S. G. G. Nyoni – The Minister of Women’s Affairs,
Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development,
- Dr.J. Mangwiro, The Deputy Minister of Health and Child
Care and
- P. Kambamura – The Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining
Development.
MOTION
LEAVE TO PRESENT A REPORT ON THE REAPPOINTMENT OF
- K. M. CHOKUDA AS CLERK OF PARLIAMENT FOR THE
SECOND AND FINAL TERM
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Section 154 (1)
of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders with the approval of the National Assembly must appoint an officer to be known as the Clerk of Parliament to be responsible, subject to Standing Orders and to the control and supervision of the Speaker for the day to day administration of
Parliament.
Standing Order No. 68 provides that every motion requires notice in terms of Standing Order No. 68 (1), I therefore, seek leave of the House to present without notice the report of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders on the appointment of Mr. Kennedy Mugove Chokuda to a second and final six year term as Clerk of Parliament pursuant to the provisions of Section 154 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I so submit.
HON. GONESE: On a point of clarification in terms of procedure.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have asked for any objections and in terms of procedure, it is as outlined by the Hon Minister and it is quite procedural.
HON. GONESE: It is not about the presentation of the motion but it is about the timing because today being a Wednesday, I thought that there is no objection to him presenting it without notice but it depends now on the timing. Because on a Wednesday, Question Time takes precedence and as long as it is after Question Time, I have no problem with that. There are two different issues. The issue of presenting without notice as far as I am concerned comes after Question Time and whereas if he had notice, we would not have been able to do it today but tomorrow. I have no problem with him doing it today; I only have a problem with the time that he wants to do it because he has not sought leave to suspend the Standing Order which stipulates that on
Wednesdays after notice of motion, the order of business is what follows Question Time. There is a difference there.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I thought you are agreeing in essence that the Hon Minister has sought leave in terms of Standing Order No. 68 and I have allowed it.
HON. GONESE: His seeking of leave relates to the failure to give notice because he was supposed to give notice a day before, that he wants to present a motion on the following day or any subsequent day. What he has sought is simply not to give notice which is a different thing with suspending the time for Question Time. He did not do that. If he has sought leave of the House to suspend the provisions of the Standing Orders relating to the order of business on a Wednesday, that would have been a different thing. What he said was the giving of notice which is a different thing.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am sure the Hon Minister can correct that proposition.
HON. GONESE: If he had done, that it was going to be a different thing but he did not.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, you are repeating yourself. I said the Hon Minister will take note of that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I submit that this is a small item where I am seeking leave to bring this motion. Once we do that, the House votes and we proceed to Question Time. My understanding was that there was no need for me to suspend Question Time because we are not going to spend a long time on this issue, unless there is a different view that this is a very difficult motion. That is the reason why I sought leave so that I can proceed. It is actually suspending in a way. Thank you Mr.Speaker. THE HON. SPEAKER: The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is the Leader of Government Business seeks leave of the House to present without notice the report of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders on the appointment of Mr. Kennedy Mugove Chokuda to a second and final term as Clerk of Parliament pursuant to the provision of Section 154 (2) of the Constitution. There being no objection, I call upon the Minister to proceed.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE REAPPOINTMENT OF MR. CHOKUDA AS
CLERK OF PARLIAMENT FOR THE SECOND AND FINAL TERM
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr
Speaker Sir. The Committee on Standing Rules and Orders met and considered the appointment of Mr Chokuda for a second and final term. The Hon. Speaker who is the head of Parliament presented a motivation urging the Committee to reappoint the clerk. The Hon. Speaker presented some of the major achievements that the institution achieved during the tenure of Mr. Chokuda. The Committee on Standing Rules and Orders unanimously adopted the recommendation by the Hon.
Speaker and I therefore move that the House adopts the report of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders that Mr. Chokuda be appointed for a second and final term in terms of Section 154 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I so move Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just want to add my voice in support of the motion that has been presented by the leader of government business in conjunction and speeding up the decision of the SROC recommendation. I have two issues in applauding the decision and the recommendation by the SROC in that during the tenure that Mr. Chokuda was appointed I was in the House in 2013 in the 8th Parliament leading to the 9th Parliament. I have seen a progressive, robust and effective way of doing business in Parliament under the stewardship of Mr. Chokuda in that I saw the strategic initiative or a strategic document arising from the operations of Parliament. There is no way we can go and find a place where we are going if we do not have a pathfinder. To me, that strategic document leads the way in terms of how Parliament functions and it is applaudable.
The second issue which we are alive to and so are the people of
Chegutu West Constituency is the establishment of the Mt Hampden Parliament. The man we call Mr. Chokuda, it is my hope, clarion call and fervent view that he sees the light of day in terms of the establishment of this humongous and gigantic infrastructure development that is going to see the migration of the Ministry of
Information from analogue to digital, thereby establishing frequencies that Parliament can also have a standalone 24 hr/day and the 6 or 4 days per week in terms of broadcast. Having talked about these two issues I land my voice and congratulate your office Mr. Speaker Sir and the SROC for arriving at such a recommendation. I wish Mr. Chokuda a very happy six year extension. I want to thank you on behalf of the people of Chegutu West constituency.
HON. PETER MOYO: Hon. Speaker I also stand to add my
voice to a motion raised by the Hon. Leader of government business. I want to support the view that Mr. Chokuda be given a second and final six year term. I have known Mr. Chokuda since 2018. He has performed his duties diligently and efficiently. He is a self motivated man and he is a team player. He has worked very well with both Hon.
Members and staff of Parliament. In that regard I support that Mr.
Chokuda be given a second term. I thank you.
HON. NYATHI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I also want to add my voice to the recommendation that has been given by the leader of government business Hon. Ziyambi where he is seeking an extension of service for Mr Kennedy, Mugove Chokuda for a second term of six years. I have known Mr. Chokuda ever since 2018. I have seen that he is a man who works very well even under pressure and he discharges his duties without any questions that one can say he is not doing his job well. I therefore do not see any reason why his term cannot be extended.
I recommend the extension of his second term in office. I thank you.
HON. SIKHALA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to stand and support the motion moved by the leader of government business on the following grounds: firstly some of us who had an opportunity to witness two regimes reining in Parliament since the year 2000 up to the term of Mr. Chokuda have immense respect for the professionalism displayed by Mr. Chokuda in his institutional objectives. We have been approaching his office several times as Members of Parliament with issues that we wanted him to attend to. He has been attending to all Members of Parliament during the 9th Parliament. We have immense respect for his professionalism in the way he handles the different interests. You have heard from a number of us who have been in that Parliament in 2000 when we were young boys with the former Clerk of Parliament when he literally played politics, something that we have noticed that Dr. Chokuda’s administration does not play politics but plays professionalism and administration to the satisfaction of everybody. I would support Mr. Speaker Sir, that with all due respect, Dr. Chokuda be given another six year extension of his administration of Parliament. On behalf of the people of Zengeza West, I support the reappointment of Dr. Chokuda for another six year term. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I support his reappointment but what is critical in his second term is to ensure that the welfare of the Members of Parliament is taken care of. Him being the chief administrator of Parliament, he must ensure that with resources permitting, I know it is probably a constraint but the welfare of the Members of Parliament is very important. The Clerk of Parliament is responsible for ensuring that MPs are happy and that their remuneration is also benchmarked with some of the Parliaments in this region. Sadly, Mr. Speaker Sir, we have failed as Parliament to also benchmark ourselves to some of the SADC Parliaments due to resources which are totally beyond his control but he must push for a better welfare for the MPs in his second term and ensure that when they discharge their duties, they do so in a professional manner which is not compromising at all.
I must say, he is a calm man and I am not calm myself but when I go into his office, I end up being calm in the way that he conducts himself. He will listen to you, he will give you the advice and he will give you options to pick what is good for you. I really want to say he is still an asset to this Parliament in many ways. I think before you also go to the Speaker, it is good to be the first stop because you need to be quite thorough when you approach the Speaker. He does prepare you for your engagement with the Speaker. He is also somebody who wants the rules of Parliament to be followed, which is important no matter what it is, he wants it to be done. I wish him the best and I am hoping that in his second term, he will also try and push for a better welfare for MPs.
Finally, on a lighter note, I hope he will be joining the parliamentary sports club so that he deals with his Rhodesian front. We look forward to see him there.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, as his immediate supervisor, he is working on Sports Policy which should be complete before June 2021 and he will take care of some of the issues that you have mentioned concerning sports. Thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to add my voice to a motion raised by the Leader of the House, Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi. Mr. Chokuda deserves to be given a second six year term. He has transformed the Parliament of Zimbabwe to a paperless institution by embracing ICT skills and prioritising virtual debates in Parliament. Lastly, he is a humble person and can interact with everyone. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Members that have debated my motion on the reappointment of Mr. Kennedy Chokuda starting with Hon. Nduna. His vocabulary was very rich indeed but basically he was in support and full of praise for the work that Hon. Chokuda has done...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say honourable? Not yet.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Sorry. Mr. Chokuda and chief among them being the establishment of the e-Parliament and also Mr. Speaker, you alluded to the awards that we got in 2016 from MISA. The award for the most open and public institution of the year and last year at the Agricultural Show, for our response led by you Mr. Speaker and in terms of our response to COVID-19. I want to thank all the Hon. Members who have spoken about his professionalism, impartiality and also what Hon. Mliswa said that perhaps we need to also ensure that the welfare of Hon. Members is considered and he also considered the way
Mr. Chokuda is very calm indeed and always be there to give advice to Hon. Members.
Having said, that I want to thank all the Hon. MPs for the support they have rendered towards the reappointment of Mr. Chokuda and move that the motion be now adopted. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Motion with leave, adopted.
THE HON. SPEAKER: As an indulgent father, I want to preempty the question of time for Questions Without Notice and hope there will be some extension so that the concerns of Hon. Gonese are accommodated accordingly.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
(V)HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Minister, is there any mechanism or plan which makes banks reduce their bank charges which are highly charged especially on payments, transactions or transfer, be it ZIPIT orRTGs?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): I would like to accept what has been submitted by Hon. Chikwama that bank charges on transactions that are being levied by our banks are on the upper side. We have engaged our banks and the primary reason they are fighting for high bank charges is because of the software system they are using. Most of the systems they are using are imported. We need to continue revamping our availability of forex so that we reduce the costs of imported software. We are also saying they should look at having those solutions locally.
In terms of the short term management of costs, we may not be having the solution on that but in the medium to long term, we are looking at the availing of forex to the bank and also trying to get the local solution.
HON. GONESE: My supplementary question relates to the issue of the banks apparently trying to make money from bank charges. My understanding of banking is that banks must make their profits from landing. In other words, they borrow money or get deposits at lower rates of interest and then lend money to borrowers who then pay higher levels of interest. What is Government doing to ensure that the essence and principle of banking where banks are supposed to make money through lending and not through the lending of bank charges can be rectified thereby lessening the burden on people who have deposited their money having to bear the brunt and sustain the operations of banks?
HON. CHIDUWA: In terms of the operations of banks, commercial banks and all institutions that are allowed to lend are free to provide lending facilities, but it is up to the individual bank to look at the risk profiles of those who are applying for loans. We are not limiting. What only limits the bank is the risk profile but the other issue that is also affecting banks is the unavailability of funds to do the lending programmes. We should also take into account the issue of functions that have affected our banks in terms of the extent to which they can get international credit lines that they can give out to those who are looking for land. Banks are free to provide loans but they also consider the risk profiles of those who are looking for loans.
HON. NDUNA: I am concerned that some of these banks are international banks and they are also resident, some of them in South
Africa for example NEDBANK, Stanbic and Standard Chartered where Zimbabwe is also an international bank. If they can charge pittance in terms of charges outside Zimbabwe and using the same system, why is it usurias in Zimbabwe? How much time are you giving them to install software that is affordable on the side of the customers?
HON. CHIDUWA: I still come back to the same point of the soundness of the financial system that we look at the profile of non- performing loans. If you look at the proportion of non-performing loans versus the loan profile, this is what determines the risk profile. As long as our non-performing loans are on the upper side, it then determines the risk profile. In terms of when we are likely to have local solution, I think I would need to engage the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe and then come with a Ministerial Statement.
HON. T. MOYO: My question is directed to the Minister of
Higher and Tertiary Education. How far has the recently promulgated
Manpower Development Act affected the operationalisation of
Education 5.0 in stimulating industrialisation and modernisation?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I want to first of all
thank Parliament and His Excellency the President for enabling the enactment of the Manpower Planning and Development Amendment Act. Hon. Speaker, this Act for the first time in the history of this country gives a very clear intention of education. The clear intention of education as a means to modernise and industrialise this country that the purpose of education is not to have pieces of purpose, the purpose of education is seen in the effect that it has on the industrialisation and modernisation of any nation.
To this end now, all our higher and tertiary education institutions are required to provide an education that is derived from the national need and required then to cause industrilisation through the innovation and industrialisation fund so that we dispose of the idea of looking for work and adopt the idea of creating the work that is needed to feed into the needs of our people. So Hon. Speaker, I want to submit and say the Manpower Planning and Development Amendment Act is a complete revolution in terms of what our education is expected to do. So, we expect the effect to start showing very vigorously as we move in time as a nation within very few months to a year or years to come.
Mr. Speaker, I want to finally submit that this Act conforms to the spirit of creativity in terms of science, research as well as academic freedom that is enshrined by Section 61 of the Constitution which says
“if people are free to think and create that is where the development of a country comes from”. Therefore polytechnics, vocational training centres, teachers’ colleges and industrial training centres are now within the league of universities in terms of being accorded the freedom that they need to create, modernise and industrialise this country. So I want to submit that this is the operationalisation of the heritage based education 5.0 that we have been looking for. There is now a legal basis to do so.
I also want to say Hon. Speaker that this Manpower Planning and Development Amendment Act now enshrines the country to have an ecosystem of scientific institutions including academies of science that are the driver of the strategic thinking and intelligence of a nation whereby we anticipate new economies and not be befallen by new economies. Instead of adopting what they call now there is industry 4.0, Zimbabwe will start to say there will be industry 7.0 and it starts from here whereby we become participants in the knowledge creation ecosystem of this world rather than just consumers of the knowledge ecosystem.
So Hon. Speaker Sir, by this Act Parliament and His Excellency the President are saying nobody will be able to stop Zimbabwe now in terms of its development. Once a nation begins to learn to think on its own which we call mental sovereignty and do based on what it thinks nobody can stop that nation. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: May I applaud the Minister for the response, may be however, may he give us a timeframe in terms of import substitution industrialisation. In Zimbabwe, of late we have seen that the importation of goods into Zimbabwe, especially basic goods is on the decline. So to what extent can we expect this Manpower Planning and Development Act to substitute those imports?
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: I wish to thank Hon. T. Moyo for the supplementary question for us to be more explicit on timetables. Hon.
Speaker, I want to submit that through the National Manpower Advisory Council, we did a survey and from 2014 to 2018 - this country imported goods worth US$20 billion, which means on average this country was importing US$5 billion of goods. Now, what this means is that we then need to scroll down this list and start eliminating one by one what we need to import. There are still certain things that we need to import.
However, we cannot import everything.
As it is said Hon. Speaker with your indulgence, somebody said in academic circles if a country imports 90% of its requirements it means it is using 10% of its brain capacity. If a country imports 10% of its requirements, it means it is using 90% of its brain capacity. Therefore, what it means is that at this moment we have to up the use of our brain capacity so that we import substitute. We have started already eliminating certain elements. For example, through the innovation process at the University of Zimbabwe we have been able now to substitute the four armyworm medicines with a bio similar of that sort. You would know that the local authorities at the moment are using what we call the LAD (local authority digital) system which was developed by Harare Institute of Technology.
You would know Hon. Speaker that ZUPCO, the tap card system was developed by Harare Institute of Technology. You would also know that Finealt Engineering which is a company under the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology is in the process of producing biodiesel which is actually within what we call the bio economy and we are developing more. As we speak, the National Bio Technology Authority is also doing, for the first time a marula factory because we were importing marula juice and wine when we have a lot of marula trees in this country. We expect the commissioning of this factory to start happening by the end of this month.
So Hon. Speaker, while we were being led by policy of Education 5.0 now we are emboldened by the enactment of an Act to make sure that it becomes imperative that universities and colleges are not created for pleasure. They are not decorations. They are a means to the liberation of a people. I thank you.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: My supplementary question is when
we can expect to see the alignment of the conditions of service for lecturers in colleges, polytechnics and vocational training centres in alignment to the Act because they play a critical role in the implementation of Education 5.0.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, I wish
to thank the Hon. Member for that supplementary question.
Hon. Speaker Sir, by Parliament and His Excellency enacting the Manpower Planning and Development Act, they have created what we call the Tertiary Education Service. The Tertiary Education Service is in response to the requirements of Section 61 of the Constitution that Higher and Tertiary Education has to have that academic freedom, that creativity that is needed, that operational independence that is needed for such institutions to steer a country forward. So, what the Tertiary
Education Council has done is to transfer all staff who were under the Public Service to the Tertiary Education Service which is actually headed by the Tertiary Education Council.
The Tertiary Education Council is similar to what a University
Council would be like, only that the Tertiary Education Council is looking after so many colleges where as a University Council is looking for one to one – one university, one council but this is a council for all tertiary education institutions. So Hon. Speaker Sir, we believe that we will immediately implement this Act and it is just a matter of practicality but we have already started. We are now looking for council members who will then recruit the secretary, head of the secretariat and we are on the move to try, to the best of our ability, to make sure that there is immediate implementation. If immediate is time, it means as practicably as possible but we have already started working on it and I hope that by not saying in two weeks or two months, immediately would serve the purpose. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a Point of Order! Mr. Speaker Sir, I must commend the Hon. Minister. I sat in this House when he was dealing with this Act …
THE HON. SPEAKER: You sat where?
HON. T. MLISWA: I was sitting in this House and went through
the debate of this Act. It is a pleasure and a marvel to listen to a
Minister who, after the Act has been enacted, is implementing it and able to explain it. Most of the Ministers are not even to understand or even explain the Act. The Professor has certainly - he went through it and it is just amazing how he is able to explain and also give credit to his work of the innovative hubs. The mask that he is wearing is from one of the tertiary institutions in this country. When Covid was at its peak, most tertiary institutions in this country had the sanitiser and wipes. My constituency bought three thousand from Chinhoyi University of
Technology (CUT).
So I would like to commend and say Hon. Ministers, I think you have a lot to follow. It is a good Act and I commend you Hon. Minister.
It was a pleasure to sit in that debate and to see this being done and may
God bless you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Can the Hon. Minister explain what is the Government policy regarding the implementation or the provisions of Section 70 (1)(c) which relates to the rights of accused persons and which actually provides that any person who is charged with an offence is entitled to be given adequate time and facilities to enable them to prepare their defence. I ask this question in the context of the failure by the State to provide free of charge, copies of the documents that are required by accused persons such as the charge sheet, the State Outline, witness and statements and any other documents which the State intends to produce or rely upon during the course of the trial.
What the police have been doing is to produce just single copies and the indigent accused persons are not able to make copies of those documents. So I want the Hon. Minister to explain the Government policy in that regard.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I want to thank Hon. Gonese for the question and applaud him for clearly spelling out the Government policy or the constitutional requirement in terms of Rights of Accused – that is exactly the position of Government.
As regards the shortage of resources within the police service to ensure that they give the necessary documents, that is a specific question that relates to lack of resources. Perhaps if you can put it in writing so that the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage can interrogate and address. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my supplementary
question is, is the Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs aware that at some of the courts, there are private players who are operating there and making copies of documents for a fee? Those players who are operating and I am going to refer to Rotten Row Magistrates Court where this practice is rampant and they are asking for payment in either ZWL or USD cash and are not accepting swipe or Ecocash?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for highlighting the malpractices that are happening but I also want to applaud him that he has clearly spelt out the ideal situation …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! You are not connected Hon. Minister.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I was indicating that I am happy that he has highlighted the malpractices that are happening at the courts in terms of those who are offering services. I am also happy that he highlighted the ideal situation that should happen to ensure that everyone has got access to justice and that they have all the necessary documentation. It is a situation that pertains to availability of resources. That is why I indicated that he puts that in writing so that we can also follow-up with the police and the Judicial Service Commission with a view to ensuring that access to justice is realised. I thank you.
HON. KAPUYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage and the Leader of the House may respond in his absence. What is Government policy towards the issuing of fire arms to civilians?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MABOYI): Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir and I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. The answer is; you tell them or show them that you have that firearm and then you can apply for a licence. Thank you.
HON. KAPUYA: The reason why I have asked that question is that every week you read in the newspapers...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, can you ask your question - I
have justified the first question.
HON. KAPUYA: My question is - why is it that we are having misuse of firearms from the money changers, car dealers and artisanal miners? Is the Government not doing due diligence when they are issuing licences to those people because every day there is blood-shed in this country because of misuse of firearms. Thank you.
HON. MABOYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think this is a different question altogether. When you talked of those firearms, I thought you were talking about the illegal firearms that you go and register, but when you are talking about these other firearms which are brought illegally, you find that some might be bringing those weapons illegally and for sure they are not recorded. If you have that information, please give it to us so that we can arrest those who are doing that. Every illegal firearm must be registered through the Ministry of Home Affairs. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My question to the Deputy Minister of Home
Affairs is – it seems that the vetting process is not in order. What are you doing to ensure that you update the due diligence exercise and what is your Ministry doing about the illegal firearms which are currently going around?
HON. MABOYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We are also very worried about the illegal weapons which are being used. Once we are given information, we will arrest those with illegal firearms, but what we are doing as you notice is that we have problems and the police are really on top of the situation. Of course, we cannot say we have managed to curb those people who are moving around with illegal weapons, but remember that illegal weapons usually are coming through our porous borders. That is our problem and we looking into the issue.
Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. When yours truly was Chairman of the Portfolio Committee on Transport in the Eighth Parliament, we sought to hear about computerisation of the firearms registry on the same platform that had computerised your vehicles along the tollgates. My question as a follow up is- at what stage if any, have we computerised the firearms registry in order to curtail, avert, avoid and to eradicate the proliferation of those crimes of firearms? Tave papi maringe ne computerisation ye firearms registry?
HON. MABOYI: Thank you Hon. Nduna for your observation.
We are in the process of computerising everything but our problem is the resources. Thank you.
HON. CHASI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Lands. Government has pronounced itself on the issue of youth and land. The question that I would like to direct to the Hon. Minister is – are there any logistical modalities that have been put in place to ensure that young people have got access to land? The related question is; in the event that young people get land, what manner of support has Government put in place in financial and technical terms to enable these young people who are so desirous of participating in the Land Reform Programme to access land. I thank you so much.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR.
MASUKA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member, Adv. Chasi for the question. The land issue is a national one, not just for the youths. When we started the Land Reform Programme, 21 years ago, the accelerated phase, most of the youths were perhaps still suckling then. So, it was their fathers that were youths. Their mothers were the youths then. So, we have given youths the land. However, those who were babies are now 21 years old and the legal age of accessing land is 21 years. Yes, they will clamour for land. Zimbabwe is a finite geographic space, so the land is finite. We have distributed over 99% of the land. Currently, in order to ensure that deserving Zimbabweans including youths access land, we have issued revised policy guidelines that focus on multiple farm owners, abandoned farms, derelict and underutilized farms. So, the new instructions policy guidelines have now gone to the Provincial Lands Committees and the District Lands Committees.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in the latest communication of 16th March, 2021, we included a policy directive on ensuring that at least 20% of the land that is given out is given to youths between 21 years and 35 years. Youths and the Hon. Members are encouraged to visit the District Lands offices where land is in the districts. The District Lands offices and the District Lands Committees will then recommend deserving applicants to the Provincial Lands Committee who then sit and also forward those to the Ministry through the lands directorate. That is the policy position regarding youths and I look forward to some stage where we will be able to get feedback from MPs as to what extent they have gone to encourage their constituents to apply for this land.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the second aspect relates to the support mechanisms that Government has put in place. These are indeed multifarious. The Hon. Member will know that the Government has various programmes, depending on the scale of farming starting with even small holder level through the Presidential Climate Proved scheme,
“pfumvudza, intwasa” where we avail inputs for serial production. We also have a similar scheme for cotton for the Presidential Cotton Inputs scheme for cotton production. For those that are on bigger pieces of land, A1 and A2, small scale Matenganyika and old resettlement, they can access Government support through the CBZ guaranteed command agriculture scheme and that has been largely successful.
Those are the avenues that are currently available but last week Mr. Speaker Sir, Government unveiled a far reaching resource envelope in terms of re-moulding, rebuilding and re-configuring the agricultural finance cooperation to have a land bank dedicated to the various classes of farmers and perhaps commercial and a leasing company to be able to provide tillage services to farmers, youths and also to be able to provide insurance services. Therefore, Government has gone to a very large extent to providing all the services that are required.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as the Hon. Member would know, Government is in the process of accelerating the capacitation of extension services and I have often said that we have provided motorbikes. Three thousand motorbikes have been availed out of the 5000 that we are looking for and we are in the process of putting in paradigm shift in terms of the approach of the extension officers so that they do not become optional extensionists but become business advisors as we transform agriculture so that it becomes a business. Mr. Speaker Sir, these are the many support aspects that Government has put in place to ensure that farming is successful and I urge the youths to take advantage of that. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: My supplementary question to the Minister is on the disabled youths. Of the 20% that you are going to allocate to the youths, what percentage are you going to give to the disabled youths who quite clearly even in the land reform, their parents who were youths never benefited from the land as a result of their disability. Thank you.
HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and I thank Hon. Mliswa for the question. The categories that were given special highlight in the new land policy guidelines of 16th March are war veterans, women, the disabled and youths. These classes have actually been separated to indicate and direct the District Lands Committees and Provincial Land Committees to give special focus on that. Since this is just a new clarification, we will be able to see the impact in this manifestation in the fullness of time but we have taken cognizance of that and I thank the Hon. Member for highlighting that. Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
(V)HON. PETER. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question is that the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement should take a proactive action pertaining to the land re-distribution. We do not want a situation whereby we have the mentality of the G40 scenario where opposition members are denied land in their motherland. We have applied for land a long time ago and the Ministry has not responded.
Even the lands committee that he is talking about has not yet responded to our request. We have so many people in our constituency and we have got disabled people, like Hon. Mliswa has already alluded to who are not even benefiting from the Land Reform Programme in their motherland. If he wants evidence, I am here to give him. We must work towards the attainment of middleclass economy by 2030. The
Minister must be able to follow what they are saying.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): What is
your follow up question Hon. Member?
HON. PETER. MOYO: The disabled people need land. This mantra should come to the lands officers and his office as well. Thank you.
HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I did not quite get the question. Perhaps you may wish to assist the Hon. Member so that I can clearly understand where he is coming from. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER : I think the major question
was on disability. He is saying your committees down there are not giving them priority – [HON. PETER MOYO: Hon. Speaker Sir, can I repeat my question?] - Can you do so Hon. Member.
HON. PETER MOYO: I am saying we have applied for land in different districts as the opposition. Do you get me?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): Hon.
Member, that is a statement, ask your question.
(V)HON. PETER MOYO: I am saying we have applied for land
in different districts as the opposition and they have not responded to our applications. We have so many people in our constituencies…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Hon.
Moyo says that they have applied for land as opposition. You apply for land as a Zimbabwean, not as opposition. So, it is important that he is corrected that land is not for ZANU PF. Land is not for the opposition, land is for Zimbabweans. May he withdraw that statement kuti opposition? Thank you.
Hon. Peter Moyo having continued to argue.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Moyo, I think the
Minister is clear that District Committees are dealing with land issues and they have sent some circular there. I think you should go to your district.
HON. PETER MOYO: I am saying the lands officers must be
professionals. Those people are party activists, they are denying us….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, we hear you.
What is your question? That is a statement, what is your question?
HON. PETER MOYO: My question is why is the land being
politicized. That is my question.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR.
MASUKA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Certainly, there are issues of clarification that are required. On the application form, in our view, fairly straight forward and does not request one to indicate their political affiliation –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – However, the Hon. Member seems to have a specific interaction and a specific experience with a specific location. May I then, therefore, request the Hon. Member to furnish me with additional information that would allow us to address this specific aspect? Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. RTD, BRIG. GEN. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Minister, what policy measures are in place to ensure that children who are released from foster care homes are given sufficient skills or resources to get out of the poverty or vulnerability cycle because in 2020, they were being given 200 RTGs and that was translating to about US$2.50. Currently, we are told that they are getting about1 200 RTGs and that translates to about US$14 and they are released to the world. Given that situation, how does the Ministry expect them to break out of the poverty or vulnerability cycle?
I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon.
Speaker Sir. Hon. Speaker, the amounts that are being referred to by Hon. Mayihlome, are amounts of per capita grants that are given to children when they are in our institutions on a monthly basis. Indeed it used to be very little, 200 RTGs per child per month but we have reviewed upwards to 1 500 RTGs. However, these are not the only support that we give the institutions who take care of those children, but his question is referring more to children, when they leave.
Hon. Speaker, we look after children until they are, in some cases, even above 18 years, especially when they are going to school. The whole idea is to leave these children at a point when they have become independent. So we send these children to school. We also take care of their tertiary education needs and at the time that they leave, we would have already given them skills that can sustain them. You can also be interested to know that in cases where children have not been very good in the academics, we also train them in livelihood skills in various areas so that they can actually go out and fend for themselves. So, there is no situation that the Ministry just leaves these children. Hatiiti senyoka dzinongobara dzosiya. We are a Ministry that nurtures these children, give them livelihood and at that particular point in time, we then give them their independence and they can join the general community or society. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. RTD. BRIG. GEN. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. Hon. Minister, can you inform the House whether the Ministry has capacity to monitor all the foster care homes and to see to it that the children that are in the foster care homes get requisite skills or the support for them to integrate back to society. Thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. The
Ministry is decentralised into districts. I think about 65 districts
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA)...districts and in each
of these districts, we have the Social Welfare officers who are responsible for supervising not just the foster homes but also the various institutions like old people’s homes and children’s homes. We could be having one or two cases where at a particular point in time we have lost social welfare officers. They are in big demand internationally and therefore we continue to lose these social welfare officers to greener pastures especially overseas. We continue also to fill these positions.
There could be one or two cases where we do not have social welfare officers in position in specific districts. Generally, I think the Ministry is up to task in terms of supervising both the homes as well as the foster care homes where children have been placed for safekeeping. I thank you.
HON. N. MGUNI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities. Members of Parliament were allocated stands in the Eighth Parliament through Local Government and apparently now they are also handing in their names to get more stands. The Eighth Parliament stands, are still not serviced. What I want to find out from the Ministry is; what action are they going to take and when? Is it the local authority that is supposed to do that because I think these stands were a wonderful gesture that was going to address the welfare of the Members of Parliament that keeps being spoken to especially by Hon. T. Mliswa. May I know what action the Ministry is going to take because they will soon have two stands that are not serviced and there is no development?
The agreement says they should put structures by 2022. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir. I thank the Hon. Member for that question. It is true that as Local
Government we undertook to give stands to Eighth and Ninth Parliament Members of Parliament and we identified the stands, but as you know we made a resolution that we could only give out stands once we have put on-site infrastructure. Right now, we do not have enough financial muscle to be able to do the servicing. In the meantime, we have been in discussion with the Speaker of Parliament to see if they can service the stands and hand them over to the Ninth Parliament. So, definitely, you are going to get your serviced stands because we do not want to make the mistake that we did in the Eighth Parliament. It is an issue that lies with both the Ministry and Parliament. I thank you.
*HON. MAKONYA: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. If the
Government does not have money to service the stands, I am suggesting that Local Government must just issue the stands and we will service the land using our own resources. Most of the Members of Parliament do not have decent accommodation and when they are out of Parliament they will become paupers. When you meet them and say, ‘honourable how are you,’ if there are people around who do not know them, they will ask you what kind of an honourable member you are because of the state they will be in when they are out of Parliament.
People cannot have all they need or the luxuries but shelter is very important for everyone. Members of the Eighth Parliament we do not own any stand. We were just given papers and not even shown the stands yet we are in our second term now.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): Hon.
Member, please ask your question.
*HON. MAKONYA: My question is - the Ministry must give us
stands and we will do the servicing.
*HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Speaker and I thank the Hon.
Member for that follow up question. I think as Parliamentarians you have witnessed that across the board, we have a problem with Caledonia whereby we had given land to people and they started building. Even if you go there today, you will find that they just dug pit latrines of which nearby there will be a well. This causes diseases in the rain season. As a Ministry, we thought it would be wise for us to give stands when they are fully serviced. People just agree that they will do the servicing but when we allocate stands, they rush to build one roomed structures yet nearby there will be awell and a pit latrine. As Government we will not continue to do that. We must source for funds and fully service the land before we allocate the stands. There must be roads, water and sewer. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, those stands were not for free, we paid for them and the money that we paid was for servicing the land. Why are you not servicing the land and why are you saying you have no money? There were no hand-outs. I have a receipt, and I fully paid for mine - why is the land not serviced? Why not use this as a model to the country, that you are a reliable Ministry that does what it says. This does not put you in good light with the public when you cannot honour Hon. Members of Parliament. I repeat honourable Members of Parliament, where is our honour when we have nowhere to stay? Where is your honour when you are totally dishonouring everything that you say?
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you for the follow up question. I hear you and I concur with you but if you recall, the monies that were paid as service fees, when we went out to try and do the servicing, there was inflation and so forth. So, it was not enough for us to be able to give out the service of sewer and water reticulation and the road mantainence. However, be rest assured my ministry is seized with that and we are going to make sure that we deliver and your Honourable will be honoured.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of clarity! The mere fact of you paying from a contractual point of view, you are obliged to deliver. In seven days if you do not do anything, I am taking the Ministry to court myself because you have gone against the contract. You must respect contracts in this country as a Government. It cannot be a Government that does not respect contracts; it is contractual obligation which must be met by the state. So, within 7 days, speak to the Minister and say that I am sending you to court and I cannot be expelled from any party by the way.
(v)HON. M. DUBE: My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. REA has put up power lines for rural electrification programme yet these polls and lines have been redundant for 15 years or more. We are now worried that the transformers will also be stolen or vandalised before they are used. What measures are in place for the immediate attention on the dysfunction of the overdue and neglected programmes of REA, particularly in Lupane where I come from? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, let me
also thank the Hon. Member for the question that he has raised.
Unfortunately, I did not hear the question properly but it seems the question is very specific to Lupane. I would request that the Hon. Member provides the actual details of the area where there was some reticulation which was abandoned so that we look into that as a particular case. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: If the Minister could assist us with regards to infrastructure; where infrastructure for example, collapses and becomes a danger to human life and to animals. Transmission lines, live wires and damaged transformers lying on the road and REA or ZESA does not attend what should communities do?
HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank Hon.
Gabbuza for the question. It is not Government policy that when power lines collapse are they supposed to be left unattended. They are supposed to be attended immediately and obviously the backbone infrastructure once it is constructed by REA it is handed over to ZETDC. So, that is the responsibility of ZETDC and we will be expecting that when such incidences happen that must be reported to the local customer service centre that is within the locality where that would have
happened. Lines are supposed to be put back and allow for the flow of electricity to where it will be intended.
(v)HON. MPARIWA: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Hon. Minister, How can women be confident that policies on gender main streaming will be achieved when the NDS 1 does not have indicators to track this and when we have not seen any deliberate efforts to generate gender disaggregated data?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you very much
Hon. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for the very important question around gender issues. I think the Hon. Member should take a look at the NDS again because we have spent a considerable amount of time as Government to make sure that there is gender mainstreaming in what we say and also what we do. There is a whole section that looks into youth and gender issues and we call this chapter cross cutting issues, issues which cut right across the board of issues of gender. Also for what it is worth, if you open the Blue Book and I am assuming the Hon. Member has had an opportunity to open it, at the beginning of the Vote allocation for every Ministry there is a report which is signed off by the Permanent Secretary for that Ministry that refers to the mainstreaming of gender issues, employment within Government in term of percentage of female employees. That is just one of the matrix, but a lot of other issues as well and the Permanent Secretary signs this off and it is the first component of the report for each vote allocation for each Ministry.
If you look at the access to finance for example, we have promised and are active on it that we will continue to recapitalise Women’s Bank, but that is not the only source of financing. The more youthful women who are entrepreneurs can also access the Empower Bank but it is a dedicated financial institution to make sure there is gender parity or equal access to finance and I am very pleased with the performance of the Women’s Bank. It is a model bank. It has very low bad debts. Women conduct their businesses properly and it has also been an innovative bank in the sense that they have introduced what we call quassi asset backed financing which means that the default rates are very low and they are able to access loans to buy small equipment for whatever they desire to do. So I can assure the Hon. Member that gender mainstreaming is present in the NDS. It is also present in the way we go about our business as Government and I am happy to walk them through the NDS plan myself personally. Thank you.
(v)HON. MPARIWA: Supplementary question Hon. Speaker Sir.
Perhaps just to shed light to the Minister that the National and Sectoral Result Framework lacks indicators to track gender mainstreaming and I hope I will not be asking too much from the Minister if I were to request that the results framework be revised to incorporate the gender perspective. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: If the Hon. Member feels that we could add more indicators, I will be very happy for us to take a look at that. I thought that we had done quite a bit and in fact, if you go to the section that pertains to the specific Ministry that covers women’s affairs they have got so many targets and they have to meet those targets.
These pertain to creating equality between the two genders but we are always happy to fine-tune these targets, Mr. Speaker Sir. There is no harm in taking a second look, but I thought we had done quite a bit, but as I just said, I offered to speak with her directly so that we can look at these issues. I take them very seriously and it is my job to report on the performance of those indicators as the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I take it so seriously, I am happy to do it on a one to one basis. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO) in terms of
Standing Order No. 64.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, there was an announcement that there was going to be an extension of time for questions, so I am rising to extend for another 15 minutes.
HON. NDEBELE: I second.
(v)HON. MOKONE: My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. Minister, I would like to know what is Government policy on eradicating massive drug abuse and establishment of drug lord syndicates across the country who are causing serious social instability and also killing the future of children. I ask that because children of school going age seem to have fallen victim particularly in the province where I come from, in Matabeleland South. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOTY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Hon. Speaker, the
question that has been asked is extremely important because the fabric of society in terms of making sure that everyone is behaving according to its norms is very important.
Drug abuse, as the Hon. Member says, is actually a crime and
Government policy is against use of dangerous drugs and drug abuse. So in terms of policy, we are very clear that the policy is against that kind of misdemeanor. However, if there are specific cases where there is suspected negligence on our part, we will be very happy to know of those particular cases so that remedial action can be taken, but when it comes to policy, the policy is very clear, we do not like drug abusers, drug traffickers and drug lords. In other words Government fights against those. That is what the policy says. I thank you.
(v)HON. E. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question goes to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What is Government policy in protecting the many women and young people who lost their jobs unfairly due to COVID-19 pandemic and lockdown? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Mr. Speaker Sir, in
2020 we ran a programme for people who lost…
HON. E. MASUKU: The Minister is not connected Hon.
Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA) Thank you Hon.
Speaker. With reference to people who were affected especially with regard to earnings during COVID-19, you recall that in 2020 Government instituted a payout arrangement for those who had lost income as a result of COVID-19. At the latest count, we were very close to 400 000 people registered. This programme ran up to the end of 2020 and was not extended into 2021, obviously because of the relaxation that had taken place. Hon. Speaker, should there be people who were retrenched as a result of the income losses to companies during COVID-19, these are already protocols relating to how people are retrenched and how they are compensated. This is what people should follow in order to get their retrenchment packages which then are supposed to sustain them even as they look for other alternative means of livelihood.
The Temporary Speaker having called Hon. Tekeshe to take the
floor.
HON. T. ZHOU: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, you skipped my name.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zhou, you were not there
when I called you. I called you three times, thank you.
HON. E NYATHI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Can you hear me? Thank you Hon. Speaker …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, let us have
order. I called you and you were not there now, there is somebody on the floor please. I have not called you. Hon. Tekeshe, may you continue. *HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We know that students need an average of five hours per day. Now the challenge is that in the rural areas students are going for only two days instead of having 15 hours per week. How are you going to compensate for that time? Taking this into consideration, how are they going to recover their school fees because there are no changes in school fees despite the few hours that they are attending? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Hon.
Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. There is no policy in the Ministry that says teachers should teach for two or three days per week. Teachers should teach every day. Now, due to COVID restrictions and loss of time that we experience, we found it imperative that we introduce strategies. What is actually happening is what we are trying to correct, that through the ‘no work no pay policy’ to demonstrate that, that is not allowed.
Coming to pupils who are attending may be for five hours or so, we have introduced this as a result of COVID-19 restrictions which resulted in the loss of learning time, strategies such as blended learning where we are saying that we are putting together syllabus topics for the ease of coverage across the curriculum so that we are able to cover the curriculum.
In addition to that, we have also put in different modes of teaching and learning like radio lessons, television lessons so that even when students are at home they continue learning. There is also a robust programme of homework where additional learning also takes place when children are at home. This is to accommodate COVID-19 restrictions such as social distancing which has resulted in reduced class numbers. These are the measures that we are taking to cover-up for time.
On the school fees aspect, yes the fees are charged and we expect that our teachers teach the whole week like we have indicated, and if they do not, corrective and disciplinary measures will be taken. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, the fifteen minutes
extension has expired.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, we had one of your members disturbing us here online, you must instill discipline in your members.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please Hon. Ndebele,
you are also taking our time.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR CIVIL SERVANTS
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon.
Speaker. Hon. Speaker, this statement is in response to issues raised in
Parliament during Question Time regarding conditions of service for Public Service. Information also was requested on staffing levels in schools in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. Consequent to the request for information pertaining to conditions of service for the civil servants raised in the august House, below is a chronology of how Government has endeavoured to address the following questions. Firstly, what Government has done to better conditions ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, I do not think
you are properly connected, they are not hearing you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Let me restart Mr Speaker Sir. This
statement is in response to issues raised during Question Time regarding conditions of service for the Public Service and also there was a request for information on staffing levels in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. Consequent to those requests below is a chronology of how Government has endeavoured to address these questions.
In its endeavour to improve the conditions of service for civil servants, Government in the 2020 financial year put in place various wage improvements strategies that are highlighted below. First in 2020 Government awarded an average increase of 140% on total package, basic salary, transport, housing and representation where possible, effective January 2020 resulting in the following wage improvements. As of August 2019, principal officers who fall in the E3 grade were getting $1384. After this increment of January 2020 they were getting
$3771. Degreed officers who are in D3 were getting $1291 in August 2019 and in January 2020 they went to $3171. Diploma holders in D1 were getting $1265 and they went up to $3108. Certificate holders who fall in C5 were getting $1168 and they went to $2733 in January 2020. Office orderlies (B1) which is the entry level in Government were getting $1045 and they went up to $2500 in January 2020.
Secondly an increase of 50% cost of living adjustment was effected on 1 June 2020 resulting in the following wage improvements and please note that effective 1 June 2020 a non taxable US$75 COVID19 allowance was introduced and was paid concurrently with these monthly salaries after converting it to the prevailing auction rate which translated to an extra income of $6100 per month across the board. The grade E3 of principal officers which was at $3771 went up to $5656 then you can add the $6100 which was the COVID allowance. D3 grade went from $3171 to $4755 and again with additional COVID allowance. The D1 went from $3101 to $4661. The certificate grade (C5) went from $2733 to $4100. The office orderly grade went from $2500 to $3749. A further increase of 40% increase adjustment was effected on 1 September 2020 again raising the grades across the board. The COVID allowance was also continued. Whatever amounts were obtaining at this point we would also add the US$75 COVID allowance converted to Z$ at the auction rate. E3 were to $7919 at that stage. D3 went to $6657. D1 went to $6526. C5 went to $5739 and office orderly $5249.
An average increase of 60% to 98% on total package was effected on 1 November 2020. Different percentage increases because of age resulting in wage improvements and this agreement was signed with workers in November 2020. By the way, the January one was also signed with the representatives of workers. After November the package for E3 went to $15680. D3 package went to $13181, D1 package went to
$12921. C5 package went to $9183 and the basic salary went to $8399. Again on all these basic packages you would add the COVID-19 allowance which has continued.
In the year 2021 there has been a cost of living adjustment of 25% effective 1st April 2021. What this has done to the basic packages is that the E3 is now at $19600, D3 is now at $16477, D1 is now $16151, C5 is at $11479 and the basic entry which is you office orderly is at $10496. To these one should add the US$75 COVID allowance which has continued. Further to the 25% that was effected on 1 April 2021 Government has offered an increment of not less than 45% with effect from 1 July 2021. This is going to be effected on 1 July 2021.
In addition to these salary increments there are a number of non monetary incentives that Government has instituted. Over and above the monetary benefit highlighted, Government through the Public Service Commission also put in place a number of non-monetary incentives or benefits.
- Government Employees Mutual Savings Fund popularly known as GEMS which was operationalised in February 2021. Civil servants will access affordable loans for various developmental needs. For example, building residential accommodation for themselves, for farming and starting small businesses.
- Solar Power Loan Scheme which is being introduced and engagement with Treasury for release of funds is ongoing. Plans are underway to carry out study visits in other countries for competitive business modelling.
- Government is and will continue to pay its dues to PSMAS in time so that the civil servants can access quality and reasonable health benefits from the medical insurance.
- Government in October 2020 reviewed the Funeral Assistance from at that particular point in time RTGs700 to US$500 to all civil servants and all pensioners. This will assist members in time of bereavement. This is payable at the prevailing auction rate.
- The Rebate on Duty Scheme wherein civil servants will be exempted from paying duty upon importation of personal vehicles was operationalised and a total of 2535 members of the public service have since benefitted through the waiver of rebate on duty on vehicle schemes. The facility will continue until the end of June 2021.
- Government also introduced Employer Liability Insurance Cover to cater for those who contracted COVID-19 whilst in the course of their duties. This insurance was made in terms of their levels within the hierarchy of Government with directors and equivalent and above levels being paid US$1000 and deputy directors and lower levels being paid US$650 equivalent. Further, Government would pay shortfalls arising from the treatment of the member if one becomes sick due to COVID-19 and sick leave of 90 days has been waived to 180 days on full pay in the event that the member takes long to recover if sick from COVID-19. Government will continue to honour this facility as long as the pandemic is still with us.
- Government is working on the Provision of Low Cost Housing to civil servants and various consultations are ongoing in order to operationalise the various schemes.
- There is also Subsidised Transport Facility for Civil Servants. The Public Service Commission is also working on a facility to ferry civil servants on outlying districts on pay days to growth points of rural service centres to facilitate their shopping and access to other services.
- Government has resuscitated and introduced Sector Specific Allowances in various sectors and suffice to say the work is ongoing and various consultations are taking place with regards to this issue in order to motivate and retain civil servants.
In short, Government is trying its best to better the civil servants’ conditions of service and livelihoods both through monetary and non- monetary benefits. Further to this, the avenue for negotiations through the National Joint Negotiating Council remains open and negotiations are ongoing.
Let me add Mr. Speaker Sir, that like many other countries, it is a modern bureaucracy which operates on the principle of lifelong commitment. Most of our civil servants are in it for life and if you want them to perform and not shrink on their responsibility, you have within the power of Government, to compensate them in ways that are commensurate with the motivation that you want to achieve and also with the aim of not having them shrink on their responsibilities or engage in corrupt activities simply because they want to achieve a livelihood.
So, we fully understand the obligations that we have as a
Government in providing sufficient compensation to civil servants. What might limit Government is the fiscal space that we have. We have to balance between paying out in terms of wages and salaries and other benefits and the overall developmental programme of Government. There was a time when this Government was using upwards of 90% for salaries and leaving very little for other developmental programmes. At this particular point in time, a conscious decision has been made to raise resources for infrastructure development and the evidence is there for you to see and that is what Government is doing even as it commits to continuously improve on the wages and salaries and other benefits for civil servants.
Let me now move to the issue pertaining to staffing levels in schools especially by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. This House also requested information pertaining to staffing levels in schools run by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education.
Suffice to say that apart from trust schools, it is the Government of Zimbabwe that pays all the teachers in this country, including those in local authority schools, central government schools and indeed all teachers in ‘not for profit organisation’ including church schools are all paid by Government.
According to the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, we currently have an establishment of 136189 teaching staff in the
Ministry. Additionally, there are other 4000 staffers in that Ministry.
So, this includes your head office staff, your provincial office staff, your district office staff, all these and other general hand staff that are paid by Government. In total, the establishment of the Ministry is 140 589.
This Ministry is the largest contributor to the civil service. In 2020, the
Ministry was authorised to recruit 11 thousand teachers. In January 2020, they were authorised to recruit 2 700 and this was achieved in that particular month. In June 2020, they were authorised to 2 300 and this was achieved. In September 2020, they were authorised to recruit 3 000 and this was achieved. In April 2021, they have been authorised to recruit another 3 000 and this is pending. This is the process that they are undertaking now. The figure of 11 000 from the beginning of 2020 up to the current recruitment that they are undertaking will be achieved once the 3000 that are currently being recruited has been finalised. It will enable the Ministry to reach its authorised teaching staff establishment of 136 189. However, this total number still falls short of the requisite teachers that have been brought about by COVID-19 standard operating procedures issued by the Ministry of Health and Child Care, hence if the Ministry, was to recruit according to those standard operating procedures for COVID-19, would require an additional 50 470. That is what would allow for sufficient social distancing under COVID-19. It does not end there Mr. Speaker, what it also means is that there has to be accommodation in terms of classrooms for the learners under COVID-19 pandemic operational procedures.
Another fact Mr. Speaker, is that prior to recruitment of the 11 000, we were estimating that we had about 23 000 to 24 000 trained teachers. After the recruitment of the 11 000, we are currently looking at the current stock of trained teachers being at about 14 000/15 000, which means that to a very large extent that 50 000 figure for COVID operational procedures is very difficult to meet, both in terms of making sure that we have enough space for the learners but also in making sure that we have sufficient numbers of trained teachers to fill the gap.
The breakdown of the number of teachers at each teaching level which is ECD-A and B and primary Grades 1 to 7, lower secondary
Forms 1 and 2, middle secondary Forms 3 and 4 and upper secondary
Forms 5 and 6 as well as the learner enrolments have been calculated with the aid of the Ministry’s Education Management Information System (EMIS) as illustrated below:
Level | Learner Enrolments | Current situation | Ideal situation | Shortfall | ||||
Males | Females | Total | TPR | Teachers in post | Teachers needed | |||
ECD | 328 258 | 323 955 | 652 213 | 1:73 | 8 883 | 1:20 | 32 611 | 23 728 |
PRIMARY | 1 399845 | 1 389 847 | 2 789 692 | 1:37 | 75 356 | 1:35 | 70 705 | 4 349 |
TOTAL | 1728 103 | 1 713 802 | 3 441 905 | 84 239 | 102 353 | 28 077 |
The total learner enrolment at ECD level stands at 654 213 learners and the current number of ECD teachers in post is 8 833 which gives a teacher-pupil ratio (TPR) of 1:73 at this level. At the secondary level, lower secondary we have 262 113 males and 274 434 females. The ratio is 1:33 which is okay because generally the preferred goes up to 1:35, preferred teacher pupil ratio except for very special areas like Science where we may not have teachers but in terms of teacher-pupil ratio, we are okay at that level. At middle secondary, the total number is 486 987 and we have a teacher-pupil ratio of 1:30. We do not have a shortfall again there except for very special areas like Science and Mathematics. At the upper level, we have a total of 100 457 with a teacher-pupil ratio of 1:20. Again, we do not have a challenge there except for issues relating to special teachers. For technical and vocational teachers at primary and secondary levels, we have 9780 schools in the country both primary and secondary and we need at least two teachers per school. We are assuming that a school should have two learning areas that are technical and vocational. The teacher-pupil ratio is 1:100 and we are supposed to have an ideal staff situation of 45 659 teachers. What we have at the moment is 19 000 teachers for Tec/Voc but the ideal number is 45 659. We have less than half the teachers that we need as far as Tec/Voc is concerned.
Summary of teacher requirements under current conditions is as follows;
LEVEL | No. Of Teachers Required |
ECD | 23 728 |
Primary | 4 349 |
Secondary | 2 833 |
Tech/Voc at 2 teachers per school | 19 560 |
Total | 50 470 |
The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is lobbying for the creation of an additional 50 470 teacher posts in all the schools in this country and it will allow them to manage even under COVID.
In conclusion, I want to restate that Government is committed to improve conditions of service for members of the Public Service and will continue to engage the Apex Council to solve all issues related to conditions of service. It is however imperative to note that we should always take stock between employment costs and economic stability and development. Any salary adjustment can be inflationary and can lead to erosion of purchasing power immediately after being awarded if we are not careful and if we do not analyse properly. Therefore, we should guard against adjustments that result in a zero sum game scenario. It is also important to note that the issue of managing staffing levels in schools is noted and will be addressed in a staggered manner in the spirit of managing the wage bill and also making it commensurate with infrastructural development at the school level, particularly classrooms and accommodation for teachers.
We have about 1800 or so schools throughout the country where infrastructure is virtually non-existent; these are the so called satellite schools. Attempts by parents, various stakeholders concerned about this are now also the local authorities mainly using devolution funds – all these are commendable. However, for us to fully mitigate the problem of infrastructure, I think there is need for a marshale plan on the part of this nation where we mobilise enough resources in order to provide sufficient and optimum infrastructure in our schools. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: I would like to thank the Minister for the presentation on the civil service. I would need the Minister to clarify a few grey areas. Given the figures that the Hon. Minister read, is he convinced that there is need for the prolonged negotiations because the salaries that you are paying civil servants is ranging between US$50-80. In your wisdom, do you strongly believe that there is need for prolonged negotiations and yet children are not learning in schools because the salaries do not need any debate? Is it not automatic that the civil service is underpaid?
The Minister spoke about the vehicle rebate scheme that is benefiting civil servants when they import vehicles. I have interacted with staff at Parliament, I do not know of anyone that has benefited from that scheme; let alone teachers in my Constituency. I am not aware of anyone that has imported a vehicle free of duty with the assistance of Government. How as Ministry, Government or chief employer, how do you ensure that these noble schemes do not just benefit ‘chefs’ in Harare, the directors and deputy directors because the ordinary civil servant is not benefiting from this vehicle import duty rebate.
Clearly, you have indicated that the civil service is continuously being given the COVID allowance and Government is committed to continuing giving this allowance. If Government is so benevolent to continue with the COVID allowance, why not convert it to a salary so that it has an implication on the pension of the worker when he or she retires. If it remains an allowance, it has no effect on the future retirement plan for the civil service.
Lastly, I wonder who is in charge of chiefs’ salaries – I was looking at their wage bill. I thought a chief was a chief but it looks like some chiefs earn more than the others. At the same time, the salaries range between US$50-80; that is about RTGs 5000 to 8000 and you keep referring to the auction rate which does not apply anywhere in the world other than at the auction floors. When you go into the shops, there is nothing called the auction rate, neither is it available at the industries where you buy spares for vehicles. I need to understand or get clarification on these issues.
(v)HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I am worried about the pensions,
first and foremost, of the civil servants that have left active service.
Their pensions’ quantum has been eroded. The Hon. Minister has said by December, he is going to make sure that they are now US$65 equivalent but my issue is, when they where at US$80 at the time, they were able to pay for their utilities, bills and local authorities rates and services but they are not able to at the moment. Would it please the Minister to go into bed with his counterpart at Local Government so that whilst he is trying to ameliorate or mitigate the issue of the eroded pensions that there be a waiver from rates and services from local authorities because the pensioners can no longer afford. They are on
US$30 as we speak, whereas they could pay when they were at US$80.
Can you go into bed, if it pleases you, with the Local Government Minister in order that they waiver the rates and services for the pensioners in the local authorities.
The second one Hon. Speaker, I see in today’s press the Minister of National Housing has put the civil servants upfront in terms of provision of housing. Would it please the Minister that in the same vein, that the civil servants, for instance the teachers, if they can have their children getting schooled free of charge in the schools that they are teaching so that further to the salaries and monies that they get from the Minister, they are also having the issues of non-monetary incentives in order that it augments, complements their meagre salaries.
The third one Hon. Speaker, would it please the Minister that he goes into bed with the gold finger or the Minister of Finance and in the same way that the Minister of Tourism has afforded the tourism sector duty free vehicles for their operation so that civil servants can actually have the Minister fight for them in terms of at least getting a brand new or whatever vehicle every five years duty free so that we can at least have happy teachers, nurses and civil servants. I rest my case.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I want to thank the Hon. Minister for
his statement. My point of clarification stems from the civil service vehicle scheme that is the duty free. If we look at it, they are supposed to buy vehicles that are not older than 10 years. If you look at the value of those vehicles, it is too high that teachers and other civil servants who earn around US$200 cannot afford them but it is a facility that has been availed. It only benefits those who earn high salaries. What is the Ministry going to do on that aspect so that civil servants, no matter the grade can afford to import vehicles duty free because they deserve to be mobile and to have their morale boosted?
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, there are just a couple of things that I want to verify with the Hon. Minister. Let me begin by applauding him for bringing that Ministerial Statement to the House but on the question of salaries, I just want to check with the Minister when exactly we are going to put this issue to rest because civil servants’ salaries are so bad that almost every month they are now subject to negotiations. What is so difficult with at least trying as much as possible to bring them to such levels that they are at par at least with other civil servants in the SADC region, even if we are going to be paying them in the local currency? Our civil servants are just requesting for a restoration in their livelihood. They are not asking for way too much. It has become a song that Government is giving negotiations a chance but for how long without a tangible outcome Hon. Minister?
On the vehicle scheme, I also want to buttress what the other Hon. Members have said. This vehicle scheme seems to be unknown to most civil servants. I have also done a survey in my constituency with teachers for instance, they did not know about the scheme. One or two that attempted to benefit from the vehicle rebate scheme got frustrated in the process because there is a lot of red tape. You need to write to the regional office and there is this back and forth until people give up. Is it possible Minister to make sure that the scheme is known to everyone and that conditions attendant thereto are less restrictive and frustrating?
In that regard Hon. Minister, I am appealing to your good office to extend that June 21 deadline. Why? Because a lot of our civil servants did not know about this scheme and those who knew got frustrated and in some cases when I listened to the stories, they were frustrated by superiors who themselves could not afford to procure the vehicles – such is human nature. So my appeal to your good office Hon. Minister, is that the Vehicle Rebate Scheme be extended beyond 2021 because certainly if you say 2 375 civil servants benefited from the scheme, this figure is negligible if you consider the whole civil service deployment.
The other compounding factor is that if I am putting away a little from what I am earning as a civil servant, it may take so long to get to the target of affording a vehicle now that we are insisting that all vehicles should be less than 10 years. Then on the issue of staffing, I realise that we have somehow surreptitiously retreated to the scenario where Harare especially in teaching is bamba zonke. A school as far down as Tsholotsho is staffed from Head Office – that on its own deserves to be reconsidered because it creates problems, problems that we have been raising with your office in this House that in some cases you get people being deployed to teach infants yet they cannot converse in the local languages. With that, I thank you Hon. Minister.
(V)*HON. NYABANI: I heard them saying that we do not have enough teachers but I want to know why in places like Rushinga from ECD to Grade Seven there is only one or two teachers for the whole school? As I am speaking, there is a shortage of 215 teachers in the whole constituency, which means that students are not learning. Is the Government not aware because I have tried to engage the authorities there and they are saying that they are sending the information here in Harare. When are they going to give us three or four teachers in every school? They are saying we have half to half teachers, where is the larger group going to?
I also want to understand why they employ teachers and send them to Rushinga then after two weeks they take them back to Harare? We want to know how long teachers are deployed before they are transferred.
Coming to the employment of teachers, in my rural constituency there is no network, transport and clean water. When you compare that to a teacher who is based in Harare and is used to WhatsApp, you will find that those teachers are not attracted to rural areas and you will also find that if you go to Muzarabani, Rushinga and Mbire, there is only a single teacher because teachers do not want to go there. So when are we going to have teachers as well? We are tired of having 0% pass rate at our schools. Are you considering us as people living at the peripheries Hon. Minister? When are you going to consider us? Do you value us so that we get teachers? I thank you.
(V)HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I heard loud and clear the Hon. Minister saying that it is the Government that pays all the teachers in local and Government schools and that there is a policy that says, ‘no work, no pay.’
My question then Hon. Speaker is - number one, is this improving the teachers conditions of service? In fact, who is benefiting from such a policy? Is it the students who are supposed to learn who are benefiting? Is it the parents who are paying school fees who are benefiting? Are teachers benefiting from this ‘no work no pay policy’? Lastly Hon. Speaker on staffing, I did not hear how much students who are on teaching practice are earning in terms of salary. Is it motivating so that one day they will be qualified and join the other teachers? I thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me thank all the Hon. Members who have contributed through questions and other interventions, some of them suggestions on what Government should be doing. I really welcome suggestions especially because we are in this together and we need to work as Zimbabweans to resolve some of the issues that affect our education system and indeed, the operations of the entirety of Government.
Hon. Gabbuza asked questions that have been repeated by other Hon. Members. For example, the issue of the Vehicle Rebate Scheme, the Hon. Member from Kadoma also asked that and Hon. Ndebele asked that question as well. I have heard Hon. Members on that issue Hon. Speaker. One is to say that there should be more information dissemination to the rest of the civil service so that people are aware of the existence of that scheme. I am going to be communicating with the Public Service Commission as well as all the ministries so that there is information dissemination on that scheme.
There has also been an appeal to say since not many people benefited, it will be good to extend it and this recommendation will go to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development because it lies within his purview. I also heard that this age limit on the vehicles that can be imported is an issue that needs to be looked at. Again, this is a Cabinet resolution and I will convey these sentiments. This concerns mainly two ministries; the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development and I think also the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. I will make sure that those two colleagues are informed about this issue. There is an issue that was common to Hon. Gabbuza and Hon. Ndebele with regards to the issue of negotiations and they were both saying why waste time with the negotiations when Government already knows that teachers are underpaid and those salaries are not enough to give them the livelihood that are expected of teachers and other civil servants.
Hon. Speaker, that aspect was one of the aspects that were central to my presentation. I have indicated clearly that as far as Government is concerned, there is something that is known as ability to pay. So even though Government understands the principles of a modern organisation where remuneration for whoever is opting to work in an organisation should be sufficient enough to motivate them to continue to contribute their labour and creativity and intellectual capacity sufficiently to move the organisation forward. We have to consider the Government’s ability to pay. There is an important balancing that has to take place, a tradeoff between how much we commit to wages and salaries and what we commit to the provision of infrastructure, including schools and health services.
In 2020 for example, we were in a second year of drought and after being affected with Cyclone Idai, the Government had to import food. We had to make very tough choices like do we put resources into feeding the nation or we put resources into paying civil servants? Even under those conditions, Government managed to move civil servants salaries from a paltry $1300 of the lowest being paid when combined with Covid allowance, to an equivalent of almost USD200 and you can see the effort that Government made under very difficult conditions where we have to balance.
So it is not just a matter of waving a magic wand and say let us pay this amount. We have to consider the consequences of that in terms of not just balancing what I was talking about, but also in terms of what it does to the economic stability that we had already achieved and what it would help to give an increment that does not mean anything. It is only nominal because as soon as it is granted, it will again be eroded. We have achieved stability to a very large extent in our economy and it is a delicate thing that we have to maintain in order to go forward, hence the incremental approach that we have taken.
I am glad to say it has yielded some considerable improvements in the salaries and wages of civil servant. I have taken to heart the contribution that Hon. Gabbuza made in terms of saying let us take the
USD75 and just convert it into salary, so that it can also have a positive impact on the pension contributions. That is one thing that I will again take to the Minister of Finance for consideration and he will take it to
Cabinet so that we can do that conversion. I am open to that suggestion.
Hon. Gabbuza referred to issues of chiefs and saying there are disparities in the manner that they are paid. Suffice it to say that I will bring this to the attention of the Minister of Local Government because the chiefs do not fall under my realm as far as payments are concerned. Hon. Nduna, I hear him as far as non-monetary benefits are concerned because he is also saying consider housing for civil servants and the
Ministry is already working on that with the participation of my Ministry because we have some fund resources that we could use for that purpose.
We see a possibility of a real mortgage scheme coming back to the country through NBS and which could also benefit the civil servants. We are glad about the stability that we are now enjoying because it will also mean that maybe for a S100/$150, someone can take a mortgage for a long period of time going into 25 years. We have not seen those schemes of late in our market. That is a good suggestion.
He is referring to civil service pensioners and saying why do we not bring them back. When I was talking about $60-$65, these were paid NSSA pensioners. It is a completely different scheme from the civil service scheme. The civil scheme almost has an auto adjustment programme to it because it is pegged a percentage of what you earned when you were a civil servant. I think it is about 60%/65% and it adjusts as those salaries in the civil service adjust. The NSSA scheme has a completely different manner in which it adjusts. It depends on considered viability of the funds and remunerate on the basis of what the actual tells us is a sustainable remuneration level that gives the fund sustainability into the future. It was that one that we said we were going to gradually increase from the $12 equivalent that it was at the beginning of the year to the current $25, we go to $30, $45 and then $60 by the end of the year.
The $60 is what is recommended internationally for economies like ours. So, we will have reached an optimal level according to ILO recommendations, but it does not mean to say we will not breach that level if resources permit. If resources permit, we go over that. The question as to when we should put the issue of salaries to rest – we cannot put it to rest but we always have to look and see what resources we have in Government, but we have to do it in a manner that is collaborative in a real spirit of negotiation with the representatives of the workers. So we will not put that matter to rest, we will continue. Even as we give these adjustments, we gave 25% and the workers said no but we went ahead and just instituted it. We are still negotiating and come July, even without an agreement, Government will honour what it has committed to. But we will continue to engage the representatives at the Apex Council level so that we achieve that.
Hon. Ndebele raised a different matter relating to the manner in which we hire or staff our schools which has now been centralised at head office by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. There are unintended consequences of that and one of which is inappropriate deployment where people are made to go into areas and teach infants the infant module but they cannot converse in the local languages. That is not proper. There is a reason why the recruitment has been centralised and those reasons reside within the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education but it is again a recommendation that I will make. My own consideration will be to have a sort of a hybrid recruitment process, where there is some centralisation and also a lot of decentralisation to the district offices because the district offices have knowledge of local people who can be willing to remain in those areas and teach. It will actually solve a lot of problems, including the issue of transportation to and from the posts, housing issues can be solved and the issues of language again can also be solved.
I come from one of those districts that are shunned by teachers. They come for a term or two terms and after that they ask for transfer to go elsewhere because the roads are bad, there is no communication and the housing for teachers is not palatable to them. So, they ask for transfers but when you are recruiting them, they say take me anywhere in the country and I will go there. However, like Hon. Nyabani was saying, soon after being recruited they say, I want to go because my mother is sick or some other excuse and they end up going and those schools end up with no teachers. I know schools that are running from ECD A to Grade 7 with only one or two teachers. One of those teachers is also the head who has to be away most of the times attending workshops and other things like that. So, we need to have a balance between centralised recruitment and de-centralised recruitment to address some of these issues.
Hon. Nyabani asked when places like Rushinga will be remembered. This is a question that could be asked by Binga, Mbire, Muzarabani, Gokwe North and South. As a Government, we need to improve infrastructure in all those areas. Responsibility to Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, we now have a very comprehensive road rehabilitation programme that is taking place. We also need like I was saying, within the Ministry of Education itself, the martial plan to make sure that we have adequate infrastructure in every part of the country so that we can equalise opportunities, with teachers housing, classrooms themselves, specialised rooms, electricity in those schools and also issues of connectivity.
We have seen what happened during COVID 19 lockdown where some of the schools, especially those in urban areas could continue with online learning but there was virtually no learning in the remote parts of the country. We need, as a nation, to look at these things and clearly target infrastructure that equalises opportunity for our learners and even for the communities across the country. That we have to do; we cannot run away from it. It is currently an issue of resources but we have to do. We have to put our minds on it. Vision 2030 is saying that, NDS is saying that, devolution programme is also saying target areas that do not have infrastructure and amenities and provide those amenities.
Hon. Charles Moyo actually ties himself in contradictions. He says Government should not do “no work no pay” but teachers are not working. So, even if we say nothing, the teachers will not go to work. Therefore, the learner suffers. Given what Government has done over the last year and continues to do in order to improve the conditions of service, I humbly submit that we also need to continue to see commitment on the part of our teachers. We cannot have teachers who have moved from earning an equivalent of maybe something like $50 last year to earning according to the auction rate, above $200 saying that
Government has not done anything. That, Hon. Speaker Ma’am, cannot be tolerated. We cannot have civil servants just doing as they wish. I will not go to work today but expect to be paid at the end of the month. That one, we really have to continue insisting on but at the same time, as we continue, improve the conditions of service of our teachers.
The teachers on teaching practice, it will please Hon. Members to know that we have just recently upped the remuneration for teachers on teaching practice. I think it will be backdated to December last year. They were earning very little but it has been pushed up now to about $10000. They are same as the basic entry level in the civil service. In addition to that, they also receive the COVID allowance of $75. Hon.
Speaker, these are my responses to the interventions by Hon. Members.
I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. Thank
you Hon. Minister for the presentation. In your presentation, you talked about standard COVID procedures which recommend social distancing in schools. How then does this happen without improving infrastructure. Secondly, you talked about teacher/pupil ratio, which stands at 1:73, what measures have you put in place to reduce this overcrowding?
Last but not least, what is your policy from bundling civil servants on negotiating forums rather than segmenting them? Why not respond to issues as they come considering that they offer different services? I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker for affording me this
opportunity to thank the Hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. I have two issues. The first one concerns low hanging fruits for civil servants. I am referring to the Land Audit report which was released. I propose that civil servants should be beneficiaries of this land audit. They need to be given arable land once the land audit is out, as an incentive to motivate them to work.
Last but not least, is the issue of the allowances for COVID-19 for those who were affected, including Hon. Members of Parliament. Can you make sure those people receive allowances which will take them a long way in improving lives of civil servants and of Hon. Members of Parliament? Can we have timeframes as to when this money is going to be paid? I thank you.
HON. H. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam for giving
me this chance. I would like to thank the Minister for the presentation.
My point that I have picked in his presentation is on vocational training. May the Minister clarify what kind of vocational training and whether the teachers that are going to be doing this are well trained, from what level to what level of education? I want to know whether the Government is ready to absorb these vocational trainees or we end up with the same problem of brain drain. When they finish, they have got no employment and are taken by other countries which is a big loss to us. I thank you.
(v)*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just
want to find out if the Minister is aware that allowances are not part of one’s salary. Let me take the example of COVID-19 allowances. If all the countries in the world were tomorrow going to say that they are now COVID–19 free, it would mean that the teacher who was receiving US$75 will lose that amount. That is why allowances are non-taxable and can be withdrawn any time.
On the issue of salaries, you said that it requires the collaboration of three Ministers including the Minister of Finance. So there is not much you can do about it, but I want to bring it to your attention that teachers are the lowest paid people in society. The lowest paid teacher is receiving a salary of 10 000 RTGs, which is lower than the one being paid to a security guard. Security guards used to be people who are not well educated but now they are earning more than a teacher. This is the point of clarity that I am appealing to the Minister to ensure that this imbalance in salaries for teachers who are professionals is addressed.
There is a disparity between the salaries of teachers and soldiers.
Even if they want to seek medical attention, considering the civil servants’ salaries, they cannot afford those shortfalls. If they are renting, they cannot afford to pay the rent amounts. As Hon. Members, since the Hon. Minister is here, we are negotiating on behalf of civil servants so that their salaries can be reviewed. I thank you.
(V) HON. MOKONE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Most of the points that I wanted to raise have already been raised by other Hon. Members. However, I will touch on the issue of teacher/pupil ratio which you raised. Do you have any lasting solution for this considering that those who are considered to be at work now are not even attending due to poor remuneration? My point is that you cannot recruit more teachers when you are failing to take care of those who are already in the service, improve the working conditions of those in the service then you can recruit more. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. Hon. Mutambisi - yes, I mentioned that there are serious infrastructural implications of the COVID-19 Standard Operation Procedures. What it is saying is that there should be social distancing, which means less learners per teacher. As a result the Ministry itself says over 50 thousand teachers may be recruited in order to meet those Standard Operation Procedures.
Even before the COVID-10 Standard Operating Procedures, our infrastructure still needed to be upped in terms of provision of infrastructure in some schools - about 1800 that do not have infrastructure. Indeed, yes the infrastructure element is very important to consider as we look at these issues. In fact, in many ways COVID-19 has indicated to us things what we need to do, some things that we have not done and we need to speed up those developments. This is why I am referring to maybe a similar programme of dealing strategically with infrastructure in education to the one that we are now using so that we deal with issue of satellite schools. When we are done we would have dealt with the issue of high student teacher ratio, it is a national issue that we address in time, I definitely agree with you.
You also said why are you bundling civil servants as you discussed recently. It will be very difficult to undertake negotiations with the various stakeholders. What is known as the Apex Council is a board that represents all the unions of the civil servants, all the sectors but also all the levels are represented by this council. It brings members from the various sectors and members from the various levels on to the negotiation table, it will be very difficult to do it separately.
I appreciate situations where the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, because of the uniqueness of the issues that teachers are dealing with, sit down regularly, sound off the unions, especially on education - specific conditions of service that I have seen being done several times. There is also a time when we brought in the unions from education to a meeting with me as well as the Minister of
Primary and Secondary Education, together with representative from the Public Service Commission. So that can be done but it does not take away the fact that when we do salary negotiations at Government level, the Apex Council brings in representatives from all sectors and from all levels of the civil service.
Hon. Moyo, the issue of land, again is a good proposal but you heard the Minister of Lands today referring to the fact that land is not limited, the current he has referred to we have done more than 95 to 99 percent of the allocation but as citizens, teachers need to be considered. Also, I think a specific representation can be done to the Ministry by the education sector.
You then talked about payment of allowances and the timeframe that I actually assume that the allowances are being paid. I will have to find out from the Public Service Commission where they are, what are the delays and what we need to do in order to make sure that those are paid timeously. There was reference to Members of Parliament - this is an issue that is outside my purview. It is dealt with here at Parliament. There are protocols to be followed in order to find out what is happening there. For civil servants, definitely, I will find out with a view to expedite the payment, if the payments are not being paid in an expeditious manner.
Hon. Mguni, yes, I was refereeing to TECHVOC subject area or learning areas in primary and secondary schools. It is not TECHVOC as the vocational training centres that are run by the Ministry of Youth but these are your subjects like what was called Metalwork before, woodwork which is now wood technology or something like that. It is fabric that was previously known as Fashion and Fabrics. It is like your home economics and other things like that, it is your Agriculture, and these are the TECHVOC subjects that I was referring to at primary and secondary education we are saying we are short staffed there. The COVID-19 based curriculum says learners should be exposed to this from an early age so that they can discover their talents and decide what they want to do and also so that we can move away from a curriculum that is only academically oriented but gives learners an opportunity to discover talents and be developed in those areas.
We cannot do that if we do not have adequate teachers to teach. Secondly, also if we do not have the infrastructure that is needed like workshops and the like. You mentioned what happened and how they are absorbed. In actual fact, in many ways that is one way in which we can solve the problem of unemployment and idle youths. If they are trained properly, most of them complete secondary school with a skill that they can use in order to get a livelihood. Someone who has done good technology, if capacitated with an enterprise loan or something repayable, can start doing things that can give them a livelihood. So, it is one of the ways in which we could even address the issue of unemployment in our areas.
Hon. Chinotimba again referenced to COVID-19 allowances and earlier, I think Hon. Gabbuza had referred to it and said why not convert it to part of salary. I responded saying that I have taken that recommendation so that we know where it was 15 000 plus the ZWL$6 or 7 000 COVID-19 allowance is at and someone’s salary is now at
ZWL $22 – 23 000.
You vice-versed the teacher and the security guards; I sign the collective bargaining agreements. In actual fact, Government is way above most of the NEC’s as far as remuneration is concerned. I genuinely say we did quite a lot in 2020. We also did quite a lot in terms of stabilisation of the economy. The only issue is that is it enough? Maybe not and I have said as we go forward, we need to continue to look at our situation, review it and work towards making sure that we are paying optimal levels that motivate our people to work in a very committed manner and that is what we need if we are to move Government programmes. That is what we need if we are to move NDS1, if we are to achieve Vision 2030; we really have to look at that issue of motivation.
Why do you recruit more when you cannot take care of the ones that you have – every trained teacher, every trained potential civil servant wants to join the civil service. We are not going to be constrained by current situations. We know that this situation is going to pass, the economy is going to improve and we will pay competitive salaries when that happens. That is the whole essence of Vision 2030 and the specific programme designed to make us achieve that NDS 1, gradual improvement on our economy and as we do that, also gradual improvement on the conditions of service of the men and women who run our different Government departments and agencies. I thank you.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON.
TEKESHE the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 11th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
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THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that Hon. Members are urged to use their full names when logging in during the virtual sittings of the House. This will assist the ICT staff to easily identify Hon. Members when admitting them on the zoom platform. Be advised that from tomorrow, the ICT staff will not admit Hon. Members who do not use their names to log in.
INVITATION TO JOIN THE ZIMBABWE PARLIAMENTARY PHARMACEUTICAL CAUCUS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that the Zimbabwe Parliamentary Pharmaceutical Caucus is inviting interested Members to join the Caucus. Registration will be from 11 to 13 May, 2021, from 1430 hours to 1530 hours, at the Members’ Dining Room.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: I rise on a matter of public interest. The Portfolio Committee on Defence and Home Affairs carried a fantastic audit pertaining to their visits to border posts especially in terms of the smuggling that was happening at the borders. Yesterday we faced an embarrassing situation as Zimbabwe when a person that passed through our airport was caught at the airport in South Africa carrying a lot of gold. This embarrassment puts the name of our country into disrepute.
To that extent, I would request the Minister of Home Affairs to come to this august House to answer – most of the issues mentioned in the report that was tabled in this august House so that he brings a Ministerial Statement answering some of the issues that were raised by the Committee, more-so written issues that are happening like smuggling of gold and other minerals through our borders and airports. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I shall advise the Leader of Government Business to assist in requesting the Minister of Home Affairs to respond to the Committee report as you requested and in so doing, respond to some of the issues that you have raised this afternoon.
(v)*HON. T. ZHOU: I rise on a matter of public interest. My point is similar to what the previous Hon Member has alluded to. Our security is very much compromised at airports.
THE HON. SPEAKER: If the issues are the same, why do you not allow the Hon Minister to make that statement in response to the Committee report and in the process you can raise some of the issues that you wanted to raise now.
(v)*HON. T. ZHOU: I wanted to raise issues that help our country as quickly as possible.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Please do that tomorrow.
HON. MAVETERA: I rise on a point of privilege and I would like to start by congratulating the Minister of Housing and Social Amenities for launching the sanitisation programme which is there to promote the transformation of Zimbabwe’s rural community waste management systems. This was a programme that we thought was quite long overdue and we really want to congratulate them. They launched it yesterday in Chikomba Central at Mawokomavi Primary School. This plan goes in line with SDG 3 which talks of good health and well being and SDG 6 which talks of clean water and sanitisation.
Let me also applaud this House for setting up an SDG Committee which indeed goes a step in the right direction in making sure that we address the issues of water and sanitation. I am kindly requesting if the Minister of Housing and Social Amenities could to come to this august House and to furnish us with a roll out plan of how they wish to establish this and how they would go forward in making sure that this is addressed in the rural population that I represent.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Leader of Government Business will assist to ask the Minister of Housing to do precisely that as per your request.
HON. NDUNA: My point of privilege is a follow up to a point of privilege that I made in this House before and you made a ruling on it to the effect that the Leader of Government Business or the gold finger, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is going to come to this House and articulate on issues of progress towards Vision 2030 in terms of infrastructure development and all other projects that are currently being embarked on by the Second Republic so that it does not seem as though Parliament does not know what is happening outside Parliament and that positives of this Second Republic can come out into the fore Presently, unless this Parliament has been favoured with that booklet that articulates and provides what it is that is happening in this Second Republic and we are hamstrung and you have made a ruling. I ask you to follow up on it so that a booklet can be availed to Parliament on issues to do with Hwange 7 and 8, our minerals, infrastructure development or ERRP our agricultural sector Mr. Speaker Sir, so that we get to hear it from the horse’s mouth compressed into one document towards Vision 2030. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. Well, in English you say you are closing the stable when the horses have already bolted. The Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development has already done an excellent job and produced a compendium with all the projects in all sectors that have been undertaken by government and those that are being undertaken. To my knowledge that compendium was distributed online and there are physical documents in the Papers Office. Hon. Minister you can confirm.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. NCUBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker. Thank you Hon. Nduna for that noble request. I agree with you Mr. Speaker Sir that a compendium has been distributed but I stand ready to give any further updates especially from January to now in terms of progress. I will also be giving the statutory updates during the midterm budget review sometime at the end of June or beginning of July this year. I must hasten to say I stand ready at anytime to give a Ministerial Statement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It sounds like you might give us just a modicum of what is in store. I would really suggest that we wait for the midterm budget review which will solidify the issues in a more standardized manner. I think we have now heard sufficient numbers of those who are raising matters of national interest.
The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs having given notice to bring in the Report of the Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister. I must say I am having a breath of fresh air for the first time that the Commissions are now complying with the Constitutional requirements. This is a pat on the back for you Hon. Minister Ziyambi for ensuring that this is being done. In that context allow me to request you to remind your other colleagues, I think one outstanding Commission that needs to present its report is the Gender Commission. If they can follow suit, I think this Hon. House will be pleased to receive such reports on time.
FIRST READING
ZIMBABWE INDEPENDENT COMPLAINTS COMMISSION BILL [H. B. 5, 2020]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) presented the Zimbabwe Independent Complaints Commission Bill [H. B. 5, 2020].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
BOREHOLE DRILLING
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to give a Ministerial Statement on borehole drilling. Zimbabwe has approximately 41 754 boreholes in various provinces distributed as follows:
Manicaland 6 899
Mashonaland West 4 323
Mashonaland Central 3 459
Masvingo 6 130
Matabeleland North 4 870
Midlands 5 096
Matabeleland South 5 572
Mashonaland East 5 505
These water points provide potable water to rural communities but their functionality is about 55%. In the current year, the Ministry will commence a massive borehole drilling programme where an additional 44 600 boreholes countrywide (35 000 boreholes in villages and 9 600 in institutions) will be drilled by 2025 to provide water for both horticultural production and primary water supplies. These will be drilled at a distribution rate of one borehole per village and one at every one of the 9 600 schools. To start off, we will target three boreholes per ward and where there is sufficient yield, piped water schemes powered through solar energy will be developed to serve villages and institutions. We have dubbed this progamme the Presidential Rural Horticulture Scheme which is part of the broader Horticultural Recovery and Growth Plan. This programme will address the twin challenges of water security and food/nutrition security for the rural populace as we move towards an upper middle-income economy by 2030.
Treasury has, in 2021, availed ZWL760 million through DDF and ZINWA and another ZWL350 million through the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education for borehole drilling, altogether ZWL1.11 billion. This will be sufficient to fund the drilling of around 1800 boreholes countrywide. ZINWA and DDF have combined rig capacity of 12 (ZINWA 4 and DDF 8), with an additional 20 rigs (DDF 10 and ZINWA 10) currently being procured. Additional capacity will be outsourced from the private sector where some 120 rigs are available.
Ministers of State for Provincial Affairs and Devolution will coordinate the borehole site identification efforts with local community leadership. The community of users (or villagers) will identify three pre-sites that will be subjected to hydro geological surveys for confirmation of potential sites for drilling. It is these sites, identified by the locals and where scientific confirmation of potential for water has been made, where boreholes will then be drilled.
Moving forward, we intend to have the Presidential launch done during the second half of the year. Currently, the process of identifying the three sites per ward has just commenced. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Minister spoke of one borehole per school and three boreholes per ward but in reference to the rural part of Zimbabwe. My question therefore premised on this, seeing that I have 48 boreholes in the Constituency that were drilled by DDF to augment and complement the potable clean water supply, are you also going to drill these three boreholes per ward in my urban Constituency, Chegutu West where I come from?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Who do you not say urban areas? You are a national leader.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of clarification from the Minister’s presentation is the fact that I observed that he spoke about rural areas and he did not talk about urban areas. Considering the water shortages that we have been experiencing in most urban areas, I am wondering why they are not included in this list. Thank you.
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to applaud the Minister for coming up with that idea. My only appeal to him is that there should be some thorough interaction with the people on the ground. I have realised that sometimes Resident Ministers do not actually go down on the ground. We have areas where we have serious shortages of water for consumption by people and livestock. I appeal that as they drill the boreholes, they should also involve the Honourables and the councillors so that they can assist on those areas which are dire in need. Thank you.
HON. I. NYONI: The Minister indicated that of the boreholes that have been drilled, only 55% are working. That leaves us with 45% that are not functional. What measures are they taking to ensure that the other boreholes that are not working are functional considering that water is a necessity in all both urban and rural areas.
HON. ADV. CHASI: I would like to acknowledge efforts by Government via Treasury as well and the Ministry of Lands with regards to this massive project that will change the lives of our people. Is the Minister going to consider ensuring that each one of these boreholes particularly in schools, clinics and villages are solar powered and that sufficient security at the same time is put in place to secure the solar infrastructure in order to ensure that this equipment does not vanish?
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, kindly allow me to welcome the Ministerial Statement and also to thank Treasury for giving the millions of dollars that the Minister of Agriculture just spoke about.
I wish to bemoan the fact that the Minister’s statement was short and to the point. It is however incomplete because in this House, we were promised that in his Ministerial Statement, he was going to address questions relating to boreholes that we were promised in the previous Parliament - that did not happen. Also, I would like to inquire about the two drill rigs for Matabeleland North and South that have been lying in Harare awaiting service for more than nine months – just oil change. I have registered it in this House that I believe there is a problem within DDF. My question to the Minister is that Matabeleland has the least number of boreholes and from reading Geography and Agriculture at school, appreciate that Matabeleland is the driest in this country. What could be the reason that we have the least number of boreholes and what concerted effort is he considering scaling up in terms of providing us with boreholes so that we also enjoy our quota within horticultural scheme of things.
Secondly, I wish the Minister would address the issue of our drill rigs. They have been here – oil change is something I could have done from the time we prayed and I would be done by now but they are here in Harare and we know that Matabeleland is very dry. When are we going to have those two drill rigs from DDF going back to their respective provinces? I realise they have been given even more money to procure ten more rigs. Could it be the best department for ten more rigs if they cannot service two from Matabeleland?
I am happy that we are going to have yet another scheme, the Presidential Rural Horticultural Scheme but Hon. Speaker, if we look at our history, we have this appetite for launching and launching grant schemes that end up lying as white elephants. If I take you back in the not so distant past, I will be asking myself; we launched a grand scheme for our rural folk, ‘the People’s Bakeries.’ What happened to those and what is going to happen to the horticultural scheme? Is there going to be follow up to ensure that our people benefit from that?
HON. KASHIRI: I applaud the Minister of Lands for awarding three boreholes per ward. The challenge that we will face is that the wards are not equal in size. Some are smaller than the others – the distances become a question. If a smaller one in terms of geographical space is getting three boreholes and the water ponds will be close by but on the bigger one, I think we will have challenges. I do not know what rationale the Minister would apply to find balance between the geographical area versus the number of boreholes being given per ward.
I will speak about Hurungwe Rural District Council. We recently bought a rig through the Devolution Fund. The rig has been sitting at the council for the last three or four months and it is not working. There is no apparent reason for that. We have tied up tax payers’ money in a rig that is not working. I think the Minister needs to help us in each aspect, to see if the rigs within the councils’ local Government are working.
(v)HON. SARUWAKA: My point of clarification from the Hon. Minister is on the naming of the Presidential Horticultural Scheme. What could be the motivation for naming that scheme as the Presidential Horticultural Scheme? I raise this because I have had problems with other schemes named ‘presidential’ where because they are called presidential instead of Government schemes, they are then misconstrued as if the money is coming from the President himself where then in the rural areas or communities where I come from, there is now segregation along political partisan lines because they are then saying these are from our President yet the President is supposed to be for everyone. Would it not be better to simply call it Government of Zimbabwe Horticultural Scheme rather than Presidential Scheme because we have had problems where the inputs are now said are from the President in his name, not the office. My question to repeat is why not call it Government of Zimbabwe Horticultural Scheme rather than Presidential Scheme.
(v)HON. M. MPOFU: The former Minister responsible for water had promised us some boreholes and they were sited. I want to know whether you are going to maintain those sites which were sited by the former Minister. Also, we have some boreholes that need deepenning - I did not hear anything about what he is going to do to deepen those existing boreholes. We have a lot of boreholes which need resuscitation, what is he going to do about those boreholes which need spare parts?
(V)*HON. NYABANI: I do not think that sinking three boreholes in an area such as Rushinga where there is a problem of water will be sufficient, considering that these will not be enough to cater for all the wards, but it is necessary to identify other wards that should benefit from the programme and also increase the number of boreholes in problem areas.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Let me start by applauding the Hon. Minister for such an initiative. A lot of our people are suffering and do not have clean water, So this is a very welcome initiative. However this is not the first time that we have also told our people that we are going to have boreholes sunk in their areas. I would like to ask the Minister to give us a clear timeframe when this project is going to start so that when we relay the information to the people, obviously they will ask us this question and we need to give them the correct information. Thank you.
HON. MAVETERA: I want to thank the Hon. Minister for this plan. The first question is to do with the provision that he has put aside, especially for the horticulture scheme which we applaud very much. I know you said there is also the issue of drilling boreholes. How are the young people going to benefit from this process since now we are still waiting for us to get the land that we are supposed to get? What provision have you put in place so that the young people will be able to benefit from this process of making sure that they get a provision towards the horticulture scheme? The second issue is what mechanisation you are also going to put in place to avoid dry holes that will result in wastage of resources?
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: I am happy with the statement by the Minister, but my concern is on Mwenenzi, a dry area where a number of boreholes have been drilled but not getting any water. What is Government doing to eliminate that challenge because the community might be happy that boreholes are being drilled for them? In such areas what is Government doing to make sure that this does not happen?
(v)HON. GABBUZA: Let me appreciate the statement by the Hon. Minister. The Minister’s statement assumes that underground water is ubiquitous all over, but that is not the case. We have places where even if you drill, you can go up for 200 metres and you will not reach underground water. Those are some of the challenges and in some areas the borehole is too deep that it is not technically possible to harness the water. Then we have places that are too salty that the water is minerally contaminated, for example Siahlaba area. Then we have places where the water is not suitable for human consumption too hot consumption. What are the strategies that the Minister is putting in place so that such communities also benefit?
HON. DR. KHUPE: Hon. Minister, according to the NDS1, there is supposed to be digging of 35 000 boreholes in the rural areas. How many have been dug so far since we are almost halfway through the first year?
(v)HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question to the Hon. Minister is that we would want to know if they have done hydro-geological studies to ascertain the level of the aquifers especially in areas like Harare because the best aquifer like in Harare is found in areas like Hatcliff towards Domboshava and in other areas there is not enough underground water. What is going to happen when the other Ward does not have enough underground water that can be taped?
The point of clarification is that the previous Minister, the late Hon. Minister Shiri, directed that when the rig was coming from Mutare and was going to pass through Harare, it should drill at least two boreholes in all Wards in Harare but that never happened. We do not know whether the Hon. Minister will resuscitate that programme that was promised by the previous Hon. Minister.
Lastly Mr. Speaker Sir, in the 1990s, the Government commissioned a study in rural areas where sites were pegged for borehole drilling. I am not sure if the current Ministry is going to consider those sites that were pegged in the 1990s? I am asking this question because if it was pegged by the Government, we consider that as a Government area. What would then happen if an individual, without knowing that this area was cited by the Government and has potential for water, a person drills the water without the approval of Government? Are they also abandoning those previously cited sites? I thank you.
(v)HON. TSVANGIRAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question to the Hon. Minister is on whether any scientific research was conducted in terms of the longevity of these many boreholes being drilled? Much like farming Hon. Speaker, farming land can be over farmed. I want to find out from the Hon. Minister if there is a long term in-depth and the amount of boreholes that we are drilling? I thank you.
(v)*HON. T. ZHOU: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for the statement that he delivered. Hon. Speaker Sir, I want to ask the Hon. Minister on his plans of revamping the boreholes and disilting the rivers so that animals get water, so that animals and people do not share the boreholes.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, kudrila kuchera. Hon. Minister, please proceed and respond accordingly.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I thank the Hon. Members for the interest in what is a national project and the many questions that have been posed.
Hon. Nduna and Hon. Toffa want to know whether this programme will be extended to urban areas. As indicated, this is strictly a rural scheme, so urban areas are excluded. However, we have previously done specific interventions for urban areas. Hon. Members will recall that in February, we commissioned the Epping Forest 20 boreholes for augmentation Bulawayo water supply to an extent that to date, Bulawayo is receiving 127 mega litres per day against its national daily demand of 155 mega litres. On Thursday this week Mr. Speaker Sir, the President will launch a dam and a major water supply project for Marondera and the eastern parts of Harare. So there are very specific interventions for urban areas but this is strictly a rural horticulture scheme, with it a major component being borehole drilling in each of the 35 000 villages and 9 600 schools.
Hon. Nguluvhe just re-emphasised that we need to consult the locals and that perhaps Members of Parliament and councillors be involved. I think that this will be a welcome development. We had said that the villagers will be able to identify three sites for which the hydrological survey will be done. This is a very scientific approach to doing these things but as to which villages in the Ward, I think Members of Parliament and councillors should assist in this regard.
Hon. Nyoni enquired as to whether the old boreholes will also be repaired. Yes, this is part of a broader ongoing project under the Covid response. We are rehabilitating and repairing as many boreholes as resources permit and this is part of that broader programme. Hon. Adv. Chasi enquired as to whether we could consider solar powering the boreholes and putting security to protect these perhaps from vandalism and theft. I think that it is something that we can consider. At this stage, we were thinking simply of putting in a village borehole and around that a nutrition garden.
Hon. Ndebele made three observations and a question. The first one relates to the two DDF drilling rigs that are idle somewhere. I will consult with the Ministry that is responsible for DDF and revert; we have oversight over ZINWA specifically. He also spoke about the boreholes that were promised in the previous Parliament. We will look into this Mr. Speaker Sir, with a view to aligning this with the current thrust and that Matabeleland is the driest and from the figures that we provided, we seem to indicate that Matabeleland might have been neglected and how do we scale up and catch up?
I think Mr. Speaker Sir, we tried to be as equitable as possible in saying that each village will have a borehole but if Hon. Members have a better way of allocating these boreholes. I am willing to look at that better way. Then on that in previous schemes, we launched these mega projects that have tended to become white elephants, Government is committed to ensuring that this succeeds in the period to 2025 and time will tell.
Hon. Kashiri stated that the Wards are not of equal size; perhaps we should use another way of determining where to drill boreholes. Hon. Kashiri, I would welcome your views on what other better way there is to do so because currently we aim to have a borehole in each village and we are aware that villages are not necessarily the same size, but we felt that this is initially the best way to go about drilling boreholes and ensuring that the Zimbabwean rural population - their sanitation is improved, nutrition is improved and that their incomes can also be improved through the nutrition gardens.
Hon. Kashiri, you relate to Rural District Council that has an idle rig - thank you for letting us know. We will also link with the Rural District Council and others so that their borehole rigs can also be utilised for its mammoth scheme.
Hon. Saruwaka, you say the meaning of presidential rural horticulture scheme – it means exactly that. I think it is Government programme and Hon. Members ought to clearly articulate that.
Hon. M. M. Mpofu, what you said was largely inaudible for me. I would prefer a written question but you were talking to the former Minister and the pledges that had been made. I am willing to consider and see how we can integrate that into this broader project.
Also Hon. Nyabani from Rushinga, you were largely inaudible and perhaps I could get this as a written statement and I will be able to attend to it. Hon. Mataranyika you were saying this is not the first time this project has been muted and what is going to be different and when are we going to start. In fact, we have just started this project. So with the procurement of the 20 additional rigs in place and now having identified private sector capacity, as soon as we are sufficiently resourced by Treasury, we will be able to go all out and you will be able to see the activity in your constituency.
Hon. Mavetera you talked about the role of youth – youth are key, the youth demographic in all we do as the Ministry but this is precisely why in the broader presidential rural horticulture scheme we intend to have two youth centres per ward and a total of 3 800 youth centres under this scheme where we will also be able to assist them with boreholes, nutrition gardens and horticultural interventions so that they can find economic activity in the rural areas and not journey to town to look for opportunities.
You also relate to dry boreholes and avoidance of such, I think the capacity scientific and engineering prowess within ZINWA and DDF will come to play and ensure that this is scientifically done so that it is cost-effective. I am sure we will be able to minimise the number of dry boreholes encountered. Hon. Moyo, you said in Mwenezi they drill those boreholes and find no water. In ZINWA and DDF, we have experts whom we put upfront so that they site where we can get water before we drill those boreholes.
Hon. Gabbuza, your question is that perhaps we have made an assumption that water is ubiquitous and yet in some instances, you have to dig up to 200 metres to get the water resource. In some areas, it is salty. The country is not uniform hydrologically and we know that the experts will be seized with that and this is an operational matter. Let us leave the experts to deal with this issue and they will be able to advise us accordingly.
Hon. Khupe, you said in terms of National Development Strategy 1, this should be an activity but you want to know how many boreholes have been sunk to date. The number of boreholes that have been sunk to date is less than 20. Experimental ones, we did a few in Tsholotsho North for example when we started a while ago, but now we are waiting for the resources to be availed by Treasury so that we can go all out. We are waiting for the rigs. The procurement process is now with the Procurement Regulatory Authority of Zimbabwe to enable us to procure these rigs so that we can start all out. Government is fully committed to ensuring that all the villages by 2025 will each have a borehole and all the schools will each have a borehole.
Hon. Hamauswa, you talked about whether there have been surveys to ascertain aquifers in Harare and Hatcliff and that they may not be sufficient ground water. As I have indicated to the other Hon. Members, this is a scientific technological and engineering endeavour for which we have sufficient skills in the country and may the Hon. Member be patient and allow this profession to be able to inform us on the best way forward. The rig promised by the late Minister, I will investigate and revert; they also say what will happen to the sites that were pegged in the 1990s. I think this will be an advantage, which is why we want locals to be involved so that they can also assist us in directing these teams there but they will superimpose this knowledge that is already there, of these sites with the new equipment that they will use to survey and do these hydrological surveys to ensure that when we drill there will be some water.
Hon. Tsvangirai, you were inaudible and I did not quite get the question but I would be pleased to get a written question which I will be able to attend to. Hon. Zhou, you said for us to remove sand in the dams is that we want to drill boreholes so that people get clean water because where we come from, we are affected by climate change and river waters and wells dry up quickly. You find that in the next season, our women and girls will be walking long distances in search of water. We are saying that if we start by drilling boreholes, they would help our women to engage in other things which will uplift their lives. So the disiltation of dams is very important. Thank you.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to applaud and thank the Minister for his ministerial statement pertaining to a very topical issue - the issue of water. I want to thank the Minister and the President for the Presidential launch of this borehole scheme but my appeal to the Hon. Minister is for uniformity. Plenty a time, people in my constituency and myself in particular, you see programmes on television where DDF is doing 24/25 boreholes in one constituency and in other constituencies there is nothing. I want to appeal to the Minister that in my constituency Hurungwe Central, we do not have the luxury of using CDF for other things. As it is, we have just applied to do boreholes, so with the CDF, we are doing basic things as provision of water because we cannot think of anything else other than doing boreholes. I have plenty of resettled areas that do not have water Madam Speaker. Water is a basic necessity, so I really plead with the Minister that this programme be done uniformly so that everyone is satisfied that we are being recognised and treated fairly. Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, in conceding that Matabeleland does not start from the same touch line as most of the other provinces, the Minister has invited me to proffer a suggestion on what he can do to ensure that we are better off. I am happy to suggest to him right away that whereas he suggests drilling three boreholes per ward, he could kindly consider in Matabeleland to at least drill four or five per ward.
Madam Speaker, I must express disappointment that the Minister did not find it worthy of his time to consult well ahead on two issues, the issue of the two drilling rigs that I have spoken about several times, ad libitum in this very House. When it was mentioned that he was going to be preparing this very Ministerial Statement that he gave, we also put it on record that he should address the issue of the two Matabeleland rigs that are lying in Harare awaiting service. Of course, he has also failed to address the question of the boreholes that are old. That question has been raised several times, if you go back to the record. I am therefore not impressed. Madam Speaker, I believe nothing precludes this House right away to come up with a resolution that the relevant committees must invite the Permanent Secretary, Jonga to come and address some of these questions.
Madam Speaker, patriotism does not necessarily need to be legislated. It is small things like this. Our people expect their Government to show up for them when they are in trouble. In Matabeleland we are in trouble, we are in dire need of water but our drill rigs are stuck in Harare and nothing stops us from thinking they have been deployed to other presumably better provinces. We are also a part of this country Madam Speaker.
Finally, if you may allow me Madam Speaker, I wish to check with the Minister if he is in a position to address us on the question of protecting indigenous borehole drillers. In the event that he is going to be out-farming some of these skills to entrepreneurs out there, what has he got in mind in terms of protecting indigenous borehole drillers? We are aware that Zambia kicked out a lot of Indian borehole drillers who are now resident in Harare. What is in place to protect our own local drillers? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Thank you. On a point of procedure, if you have got a specific question, I am sure you should have known how to be able to address that through a Question With Notice. Secondly, when the Ministerial Statement was sought, it was specific to the roll out of boreholes. So in that capacity, if you really wanted a specific issue to the two Matabeleland rigs, you were supposed to put it in writing and I am sure the Hon. Minister could have responded to you. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: To respond to that, I stood in this very House and my request was admitted by the Speaker. I stood in this House and this is a House of record. I specifically requested that when the Hon. Minister brings his Ministerial Statement, he addresses that matter and that matter has not been addressed. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. When I requested for Hon. Members to proffer suggestions on a more equitable manner for sharing, I have now received a proposal …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you be connected Hon. Minister. When I requested for Hon. Members to proffer suggestions on a more equitable manner for sharing, I have now received a proposal …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you be connected Hon. Minister.
HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you. I think I am now connected. Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Ndebele for the follow-up question. First for proffering a mechanism of ensuring that there is accelerated borehole drilling in Matabeleland. His suggestion is four to five per ward. I am sure we will get more suggestions from other Members as well. We will consider those and see within the resources that are available whether that is indeed possible to vary from the one per village and initially three per ward that we have suggested.
In connection with the two DDF drilling rigs, my Ministry…
HON. S. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, can we be protected from senior Member, Hon. T. Mliswa?
HON. T. MLISWA: My apology, let me go back to my position.
HON. DR. MASUKU: Madam Speaker Maam, in connection with the two DDF drilling rigs, DDF is under the Office of the President and Cabinet. May I suggest that we get the details regarding the status of these two drilling rigs from – with your concurrence Madam Speaker, perhaps with the Leader of the House, the status of those drilling rigs. We have specific oversight over ZINWA but not DDF.
There was a question regarding protecting indigenous borehole drilling companies. The Hon. Member will be pleased to know that the borehole drilling fraternity recently formed an association and I was pleased to meet with the leadership of that Association, at which I emphasised that Government’s thrust is for the promotion on localisation for production. It is in this regard that the Hon. Member’s reminder that we should focus on the indigenous borehole drilling companies is most welcome. This is what the Ministry is going to be doing. I thank you.
HON. TONGOFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me first of all thank the Hon. Minister for such a wonderful programme which they are rolling out. However, I have got a question. When we went to DDF and ZINWA for borehole drilling, at one point we were told that the rigs are available but there is no diesel and no casing. Also villagers in some areas gathered diesel; gathered casing and the society was saying, it is almost a year now the rigs are not available. Villagers are now wondering whether the rigs will be available. So Hon. Minister, can you help us to clarify when these rigs are going to come and drill because the diesel has now over stayed in people’s homes and people no longer have hope whether the boreholes are going to be drilled. I thank you.
(v)*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for the statement. We are now left with five months for the rainy season to begin. It is not recommended to drill boreholes during the rainy season. The water table will be high. Also on the issue of rigs, since we know that almost every province needs boreholes, can we not have a rig in each district? It is noted that people wait for almost 9 months for a rig to come to their area and right now the rigs are not functioning. It is better to have them at provincial level and they will set up their own pace. I thank you.
(v)*HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Madam Speaker for affording me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate which was raised by the Minister on drilling of boreholes. I was listening attentively to the contributions of other Hon. Members, for example, Hon. Nyabani. I realised that some wards are small and others are big, so this should be considered when allocating number of boreholes per ward. It was raised that some wards get more boreholes while others do not have. I think there is need to work with number of people in a ward and distribute accordingly. Also, there should be some mechanisms to check if all provinces benefit, for example in Shurugwi, we have never benefited from that programme of borehole drilling by your Ministry.
Can the Minister make it a point to inform Members of Parliament as to when that programme will come to our areas so that we also inform responsible authorities in our areas to assess where boreholes can be sunk in our areas? I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. It is with clarity that I ask the Minister, when this programme of urban sufficient water provision is going to come to Chegutu, in particular, because in 2008 and 2009 we had cholera and typhoid which killed about 400 people. These diseases are medieval diseases and they ward off investment. They cannot be contained, they originated in Chegutu but they proliferated and migrated to other towns. When is it that you are going to come to Chegutu West Constituency, Chegutu town in particular, to complement and augment the pittance water supply that we have from our seven water bodies in order to avoid and eradicate and completely ameliorate the scourge of the cholera and typhoid pandemic. I thank you.
(v)*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Minister on this address to Parliament. We once heard that we were going to have four boreholes drilled from ZINWA but they did not come back to drill. With this programme, I want to know whether you are going to come and drill the boreholes. We want the Minister to honour his promise because if you come to our areas you will see that we are lagging behind. You must visit women constituencies. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. There are many boreholes which have been sunk and all they need is flushing and rehabilitation. Why is Government prioritising in sinking new ones when the old ones can be flushed out and rehabilitated? There are many irrigation schemes which have always been there yet there is no horticulture. Why are we coming up with this facade of creating these irrigation schemes which do horticulture when the current ones are not working? Why not focus on the current existing ones?
The other issue of clarity is; Hon. Minister, the source of water in the urban areas are dams. For example in Norton water comes to Harare then goes back to Norton yet Norton has got two lakes, that is Darwendale and Chivero. So Norton actually supplies but it does not go directly to Norton when Norton is an industrial hub. How then do you intend to rectify that situation so that there are no problems in Norton given the fact that they have two dams which feed into the City of Harare? I thank you.
HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank the Hon. Members for the additional questions although on the first two, I apologise that Hon. Tongofa and Hon. Chinotimba, I did not get the two questions from them. I would be pleased if those questions could be put in writing and I will attend to them in detail.
Hon. Nyathi said that we only see these boreholes being sunk in other constituencies, when are you also coming to our constituencies? We are appealing that Hon. Members and councilors site three places that we can start with under this project so that there are boreholes in each and every constituency. Government policy is that by 2030, all provinces must have boreholes sunk. You further went on to say that you want to be notified about the places where boreholes are going to be sunk. This, we can do and next Friday we will hold our monthly meeting with all the Ministers of Province in Bulawayo where we will be discussing on this issue so that we agree as to which places we will start with.
Hon. Nduna wanted clarity as to when Chegutu Constituency will have its water supplies attended to, because sadly in 2008 and 2009 there was an outbreak of cholera and typhoid and these diseases ought not to occur. I agree with you, but the responsibility however for urban water supply lies squarely with the urban local authority. So in the first instances, they have the primary responsibility to ensure that water is supplied to their residents. That having been said Madam Speaker, Government has a responsibility in terms of SDGs to supply clean water to its citizens.
It is in this regard that Government has availed 10 billion dollars this year for the construction of various dams across the country and it is also in this regard that a parastatal, ZINWA is in charge of 450 water points throughout the country where urban authorities do not operate. It is where our sole responsibility is to supply the raw water but from the treatment and reticulation, the responsibility is for the urban local authority. I will be willing perhaps to get more details so that we can assist each other in terms of Chegutu in particular, to see what ZINWA, Government and what the urban authority roles are.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Chikwama said it was once said that there was going to be such a programme. She further asked whether this was not a lip service only. I just want to highlight now that we have started this programme and we are determined to see its success. We shall be updating you on progress in this august House and if we encounter any problems, we will update you also. We will also go into areas that have female representatives too as alluded to by Hon. Chikwama. Why we have embarked on this project is that most of us grew up in the rural areas and we witnessed our sisters walking very long distances carrying buckets of water. We therefore applaud Government efforts in bringing up such good projects so that this will ease the work of women and girls.
Hon. T. Mliswa you said that we are drilling more new boreholes and not focusing on the ones that are dysfunctional; they must be flushed out and rehabilitated. I highlighted this aspect that the functionality of boreholes is 55%. So what we are currently doing, especially under the COVID-19 response plan and Government all together, as of yesterday we availed 13.1 billion dollars under the COVID-19 response plan. We see that in COVID-19 response plan we have rehabilitated over 5 000 boreholes and this is an ongoing programme. So we will continue to do so. You also mentioned about the irrigation schemes that are idle and why we are doing horticulture on these.
Madam Speaker, we have 450 irrigation schemes in the country on 26 000 hectares. Two years ago, one would have described these irrigation schemes in the following sentences ‘that Zimbabwe has 450 irrigation schemes on 26 000 hectares in various state of dilapidation’. Today the description for these 450 irrigation schemes on 26 000 hectares is that Zimbabwe has these and they are in various stages of being resuscitated. So Government has put in resources to rehabilitate these schemes under the accelerated irrigation and revitalisation plan. It is our plan that in the next three years, we will have these schemes revitalised and revitalisation of these schemes is something that we need to look at from a more holistic perspective. It is not the infrastructural rehabilitation that will make these schemes viable and sustainable so that the Government does not go back. It is to ensure that there is sufficient capacitation of the scheme participants and that each scheme becomes a business case so that when we go to rehabilitate, the scheme becomes viable and sustainable. The Government will not have to go back as we do so often and then we see these idle schemes.
So those are the irrigation schemes, but we have 35 000 villages in need of clean water and there are 35 000 villages where every dry season women and girls go by the stream or river side to fetch water and start a garden, in order to be able to provide vegetables for their families. As Government in terms of Vision 2030, we want better nutrition, better incomes and we must provide for that by drilling a borehole in each village and that ought to be accompanied by a nutrition garden. I think this is a dignified thing for our women and girls.
The Hon. Member also looked at Norton. When we look at the design of water, this is the responsibility for the urban local authorities: Harare, Norton, Ruwa and Chitungwiza. However, the water is purified, pumped to Harare and 6 mega litres is sent back to Norton which they require. I think in the long term, Norton ought to just have its own treatment works.
However, what we are looking at later this year would be to assist Harare by providing as much as 20 to 25% of its water requirements from a very different source. When the President launches the dam on Thursday, more details will be availed on how providing water to Marondera will allow certain dams supplying Marondera to be de-commissioned but immediately commissioned to supply the east of Harare, in the process making water available to more areas, including Norton in the short term.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! I wanted the Hon. Minister to clarify on what he means by 35 000 villages. My home in my area is a village, so can he really clarify what he means when he talks about villages?
HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Hon. Member seeks clarification on what a village is. A village is a line with a headman and that is our interpretation at this stage. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Moving forward, it is important for it to be known that a village is one that has a village head.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of clarification! When the Minister was responding to me on the question of DDF, he said I could check with the Leader of the House. So I presume the Hon. Prof. M. Ncube is the Leader of the House at the moment.
It is clear that there are problems with DDF and the problems arise from their situation or location within the President’s Office. I just want to check with the Hon. Prof. Ncube how difficult is it for our esteemed Cabinet to reconsider or to consider re-assigning DDF to one of the Ministries so that as Parliamentarians we are assured that there is a political head who monitors them on a day to day basis; because it is criminal, the question of our two rigs in Matabeleland to be sitting in Harare for more than 9 months.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is a recommendation Hon. Ndebele and that decision lies with His Excellency, the President.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I wanted to applaud the Minster for his presentation and thank him and His Excellency for the programme that they want to initiate. However, my plea to the Hon. Minister was for uniformity on deployment and implementation of such programme…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! Hon. Ndiweni is not properly dressed.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndiweni may you please show your face because now, Hon. Mliswa is saying you are improperly dressed with the picture that is on your profile.
(v)HON. TONGOFA: My question was not addressed. My question is, Hon. Speaker, in Chivi North Constituency, there is a problem of water. People were advised to buy diesel and casing and got their site sited. They spent almost a year ago. They have got diesel in their homes but the rigs are not coming. When are we expecting the rigs to come and drill those boreholes? So many villages contributed all resources towards having those boreholes but up to now we are waiting. I would like to ask the Minister when we are going to get those rigs. That was my question.
HON. DR. MASUKA: Madam Speaker, I must apologise again. I did not quite get the question from Hon. Tongofa.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: His question was rigs have not yet come to Chivi North Constituency so he is saying when are the rigs going to be coming to Chivi North Constituency.
HON. DR. MASUKA: The reason they have not come there is because they have not been deployed yet because we are in the process of procuring the additional rigs and also getting the resources from Treasury. Once that has happened, deployment will commence in earnest, but this is the plan. Thank you Madam Speaker.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over until Odrer of the Day Number 4 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
PENSIONS AND PROVIDENT FUNDS BILL [H. B. 17, 2019]
Fourth Order read: Second Reading: Pensions and Provident Funds Bill [H. B. 17, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Madam Speaker, thank you. I rise to deliver a second reading speech for the proposed amendments to the Pensions and Provident Funds Bill.
The Pension and Provident Funds Act [Chapter 24:09] was enacted in 2006 to strengthen the regulatory framework of the Pension and Provident Fund sector. The Act is being amended through the Pension and Provident Funds Amendment Bill in order to accommodate Commission of inquiry recommendations as well as align the Act to the international and regional developments. Stakeholder consultations were solicited from the public to enrich the Bill.
The Bill will improve the operating environment for Pensions Funds and Administrators by providing protection for policy holders, beneficiaries and trustees. The Bill also promotes Government efforts to achieve financial inclusion, financial sector stability and financial soundness of the Micro-pension Fund Institutions (MFIs).
The rationale for amending the Pensions and Provident Funds Act in summary is as follows:
- Address and identify deficiencies in the current legislation.
- Provide for the management of troubled pension funds, provident funds, fund administration and dissolution.
- Prohibit cross directorship in the industry.
- Promote the rights and to protect pension contributors’ and pensioners.
- Strengthen the regulatory framework of the pensions in order to promote growth and development.
- Incorporate legislative recommendations from the Commission of Inquiry on the conversion of Zimbabwe dollars to United States of America Dollars values and,
- Align the pension and provident fund legislation to international best practices.
Key provisions of the Bill
In Clause 3, the clause seeks to set out clearly the objectives of the Bill which are to promote good corporate governance, protect pension fund members and strengthen the pension sector by minimising regulatory failure.
Clauses 4 and 5 provide for the responsibilities of Commissioner and delegation of functions of Commissioner respectively.
Clauses 6 and 7, the Bill is adjusting the regulatory powers conferred to the Commissioner when the Commission was under the Ministry. However it now requires to be conferred to the Commission instead.
Causes 8, 9, 10 and 11, Madam Speaker, these clauses oblige persons who want to establish or carryon the business of fund to register their funds and factors to be considered when deciding whether or not to register a fund. Further, set the procedure on the assurance of a certificate of a fund and criminalises operations of unregistered funds.
Looking at clauses 12 and 13, clause 12 provides for circumstances for the dissolution of a fund, appointment of a liquidator and liquidation process where a fund may be dissolved in terms of the rules of the fund or where so directed by the Commission in terms of section or where the certificate of registration has been revoked.
Clause 13 empowers the Commission to revoke certificate of registration of a fund if it discovers that the applicant willingly or knowingly made a false statement in the application or the fund breaches the conditions of registration or contravenes this Act or regulations made in terms of this Act or the fund is merged, wound up or dissolved.
Clauses 23, 24, 25, 26 and 27, these clauses deal with the composition, functions and duties of board, qualifications and disqualifications for appointment as member of the board, terms of office of board members and capacitation of board members.
There is also a section in the Bill, Madam Speaker, which deals with the issue of penalties. The pension sector is unique in that it touches on people’s life savings, hence the need for deterrent sanctions for none compliance with provisions of the Act or regulations. The level of penalties prescribed in the Act do not appear to be dissuasive considering the potential loss of pension funds.
The Bill is seeking to empower the regulator IPEC to prescribe the penalties that are dissuasive in the regulations and call some of the contraventions in the Act to have personal liability in order to deter mischief and reconstitute the contributors and pensioners in case of losses.
Clauses 28 and 29 refer to the notification of material matter prejudicial to the fund. Clause 47 refers to the minimum time lines for maintenance of records, the accreditation of auditors and evaluators. All these are critical issues in the proposed Pensions Bill.
In conclusion, the amendments being proposed are based on the realisation that our law relating to pension is lagging behind market developments and require to be aligned with international standards in order to achieve effective monitoring mechanisms.
Overally, the Bill seeks to improve the operating environment for pension sector as well as provide adequate protection for pensioners and beneficiaries. The Bill also promotes Government efforts to achieve financial inclusion, financial sector stability and improve the financial soundness of the pension sector.
I therefore submit the statement to Parliament as a Second Reading. I thank you.
HON DR. NYASHANU:
1.0 Introduction
Section 141 of the Constitution requires Parliament to engage the general members of the public in its legislative processes and ensure that all interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament. In fulfilment of this constitutional obligation, Parliament through the Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development held public consultations on the Pensions and Provident Funds Bill to gather the views of the people from 7th to 9th of April 2021. The Committee was split into two teams covering 6 of the country’s 10 provinces. Team A conducted public hearings in Hwange, Bulawayo and Harare, while Team B covered Zvishavane, Chiredzi and Mutare. Generally, the public hearings were attended by pensioners who felt they were the most affected by the current state of the pension system in Zimbabwe and desired the Government to urgently address their plight.
2.0 Background to the Bill
The Pensions and Provident Fund Bill was gazetted on 21 February 2020. The Bill seeks to repeal the Pension and Provident Funds Act (Chapter 24:09) and to provide for the registration, regulation and dissolution of pension and provident funds.[1] The call to amend the Pension and Provident Funds Act of 1976 emanates from the urgent need to bring the legislation in line with emerging trends, in particular, in areas of good corporate governance and the socio-economic environment. The regulatory reforms in the Insurance and Pensions industry have not kept pace with the dynamic changes currently being experienced in the financial markets. The financial sector in Zimbabwe has undergone different economic conditions since 1980 to date which has significantly impacted on the performance of the insurance and pensions industry. It has been observed that over time, a huge legislative gap developed in the sector which significantly contributed to the loss of value to investments, particularly during the hyper-inflation era, currency de-basing period, dollarization of the economy and the delayed de-monetisation of the ZW$ currency prejudicing policy-holders and pensioners. Thus, the major thrust of the Bill is to enhance the protection of policyholders and pension fund members as recommended by the Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry (COI) into the Conversion of Insurance and Pension Values from the Zimbabwe Dollar to the United States Dollar of 2017.
3.0 Methodology
The Committee considered submissions received from the public consultations in addition to written submissions received from the Zimbabwe Association of Pension Funds (ZAPF), Zimbabwe Pension and Insurance Rights Trust (ZIMPIRT) and Mining Industry Pension Fund (MIPF). In addition to that, Insurance and Pensions Commission (IPEC) facilitated two virtual meetings aimed at unpacking the Bill so that Members would have a general appreciation of the contents of the Bill. The Committee then deliberated on the submissions received together with views from IPEC leading to the development of this report.
4.0 General Submissions and Observations Received by the Committee
4.1 Memorandum
Clauses 14, 15 and 16 on the memorandum section talks of ‘board of directors’ of a fund to disclose important information to stakeholders and provide for the amendment and consolidation of rules of fund respectively. However, ZIMPIRT together with members of the public noted with concern that pension funds have ‘board of trustees’ and not ‘board of directors.’ It also noted that there is no mention of the term in the Bill other than the mention of the term ‘board’ under various sections in the Bill. Therefore, it is not so clear if reference is being made to board of trustees or board of directors. The term ‘board of directors’ has those connotations or intentions of privatising pension funds as pension companies. Therefore, it was suggested that the term ‘board’ should be removed and replaced with ‘board of trustees’ as in the current Act.
4.2 Clause 1: Short Title
On the short title, the MIPF and ZAPE noted inconsistencies in the title of the Bill. On the title page and the document header the title reads as ‘Pensions and Provident Funds Bill, while in clause 1 it is cited as the ‘Pension and Provident Funds Bill.
4.3 Clause 2: Interpretation
The clause provides for interpretation of terms used in the Bill. Submissions received by the Committee indicated that there were some terms which were problematic and required clarification. ZAPF and ZAPE highlighted;
- That the definition of ‘actuarial surplus’ was adopted and modified from the South African Pension Law and is questionable if the modification would serve the Zimbabwean context any better. That the definition of valuator should not be accepted as it leaves so much uncertainty and discretion to the Commissioner. A valuator is defined as an actuary and any other person so designated by the Commissioner.
- That definition of an actuary provided in the Bill allows the Commissioner to designate someone as an Actuary. This gives the Commissioner too much power, considering that Actuaries are not considered as a profession by any law and neither are they regulated. Thus, it is prudent at least to ensure that the Commissioner Gazettes any designations.
- That the definition of existing fund is defined in Section 49 instead of Section 2 as per the current Act. This must be rectified.
- That the definition of stakeholder is too broad. It has been proposed that the definition be restricted to stakeholders with interest in a fund, that is to include founding members, pensioners, former members, deferred pensioner and employer participating in the fund.
4.4 Clauses 4-7: Responsibilities and Functions of the Commissioner
The clauses provide for the responsibilities, delegated functions and additional functions of the Commission as recommended by the COI report. This measure seeks to strengthen the Insurance and Pensions Commission so that it can be held accountable to by both the public and the Legislature. Clause 7 ensures that the Commission exercises its mandate in line with Section 194 of the Constitution. However, ZAPE noted that throughout the Bill, the powers conferred to the Commissioner have been conferred to the Commission. There must be a clear separation of duties.
Clause 6 which provides for the additional functions of the Commission has been argued by ZAPF to be a replication of Section 4 in the IPEC Act. ZAPF proposed to retain the objects in the IPEC Act and strengthen it.
4.5 Clauses 8-13: Registration of Funds
The clauses provide for the registration, dissolution or cancellation of funds. Submissions received from members of the public and ZIMPIRT proposes that the Bill vests too much discretionary power to the Commission, like under clause 12. It was proposed that the Commission must act in terms of the legislation, which must spell out all provisions and instances that will call for the dissolution of a fund. This will avoid a situation where pension funds are dissolved arbitrary at the discretion of the Commission as a consequence of this clause. ZIMPIRT further argued that between 2010 and 2011 there were quite a number of pension funds that were dissolved unsatisfactorily at the discretion of the Commission and to date a number of pensioners are still calling for a transparent dissolution of the pension funds in question.
4.6 Clauses 14 – 16: Rules of the Funds
This part spells out what must be contained in the rules of the fund and that the rules shall be binding to the fund and the members involved. However, ZAPF argues that some of the provisions dealing with this part would be best placed in regulations as opposed to the main Act such as all the requirements of the rules of the fund (clause 14) and communication with stakeholders (clause 15) and therefore must be deleted from the Bill.
Members of the public also proposed that under the rules of the fund, it was important for the Bill to regulate a time frame mandating pension funds to timeously disburse one’s pension upon retiring from service. Most pensioners bemoaned the late disbursement of pension pay outs by most pension funds. The current Act is silent on this provision which is making it difficult for pensioners to receive their benefits timeously. It was also proposed that the Bill criminalise non-complying firms.
MIPF notes that clause 14 is very comprehensive in its requirements as it demands that the rules of the funds incorporate processes and policies that enhance disclosures and promote sound corporate governance and risk management principles. However, according to the MIPF and ZAPE, clause 14 (1) (b) (iii) B provides that the rules of the fund should state administration expenses among others. MIPF and ZAPE then raised two concerns as follows;
- That there is need for the Bill to clarify whether the administration expenses should be measured based on the expected contributions or against received contributions.
- That there is no standard agreed guidelines in terms of what will constitute administration expenses and thus noted the need to establish minimum guidelines to place comparatives into perspectives.
Clause 15 places the obligation to provide information on the fund and states the critical information that should be given to fund members and the frequency at which such information must be supplied to the member. This ensures that the member is adequately informed about the fund on an ongoing basis. This enhances accountability and transparency by pension funds. However, clause 15 (6) (a) stipulates that ‘any meetings of members and beneficiaries of the fund shall constitute a quorum exceeding fifty per centum of the total members. MIPF noted that this could be problematic in terms of implementation, in particular, in the mining sector, whose total membership is around 82 815 from 140 different employers as at 31 December 2019. Therefore, such a high quorum for the MIPF is not practical. MIPF thus proposed that the quorum be comprised of representatives of membership from at least 50% of the members.
Clause 16 is welcome provision as it allows participating employers to exit the fund and set up or participate in another fund if such other fund provides superior benefits to the members. The new provision allows for opening up of these funds so that entry and exit is based on employer’s preference and this in turn promotes competition within the industry, and results in efficiencies in fund administration. However, MIPF noted with concern that the Commission under Clause 16 (11) is allowed to give an exemption based on representations from the participating employer only. This is notwithstanding that there are three parties involved, namely, the participating employer, the fund which the participating employer seeks to exit from and the members whose interest are at stake. Thus, it was proposed that in order for the Commission to make an informed and balanced decision on the exemption, representation should be received from all the three parties concerned.
4.7 Clauses 17: Payment to and from Fund
This part provides for how contributions into the fund shall be done by the members. Clause 17 makes it an offence for any participating employer who fails to remit contributions within the stipulated period as provided for in the legislation. Further to that, Clause 17 (8) places personal liability on the director or executive officer who is regularly involved in the management of the participating employer’s overall financial affairs. The clause also provides for category 1 of civil penalties against defaulters. Generally, the members of the public together with other stakeholders welcomed this provision as it seeks to solve the current challenges bedeviling the sector. It was however suggested that the penalty must be deterrent while at the same time the Commission be empowered to garnish from companies that are not remitting pension funds. For example, it was noted during the public consultations that Hwange Colliery Company failed to remit pension funds between 2009 and 2018. This has prejudiced Hwange employees of their hard earned pensions over the years.
4.8 Clause 19-20: Minimum Benefits and Contributions
This provides for minimum benefits and minimum contributions to the pension funds. Members of the public welcomed this provision which seeks to standardise pension contribution and benefits so that they are of a meaningful value when paid out monthly after retirement. Concerns were raised by the general public with regards to the paltry $ZWL 1000 pension pay out by NSSA, which is equivalent to USD10. IPEC noted that it was critical for the law to define the minimum benefit, vis-à-vis the fund type, which should be expected by the member. This protects the member and also places a burden on the board, since it needs to ensure that the fund is in a position to meet the benefit and puts in place policies that ensure attainment of the objective. It was noted that members who participate in a fund do so because they expect to get a benefit at the appropriate time.
Some members of the public even proposed that the pension benefits be pegged in the United States Dollars to counter the effects of volatile exchange rates or pegged to the minimum wage which takes into account the basket of consumer goods. The public further mentioned that there is need to strengthen transparency and accountability of NSSA funds which was reported to have been paying USD 60 in the previous years as opposed to the current USD10. Others suggested that IPEC must be given the powers to increase or standardize pension pay outs in line with prevailing economic environment.
Most participants also raised concern over the lack of a grading system on pension funds resulting in a flat figure being awarded to everyone regardless of contributions and position of pensioner during his/her working years. It was therefore proposed that pension funds take into consideration contributions and position of pensioner. IPEC must be empowered to monitor pension funds databases so that it also monitors if pension payouts are commensurate to contributions and grade of pensioner at the time of retiring.
4.9 Clause 21: Actuarial Surplus
This clause determines how actuarial surplus might be expended. The use of actuarial surplus is currently governed by regulations but spending of such surplus is at the discretion of a fund and there is no obligation on the fund to inform or seek the approval of the Commission prior to utilising the surplus. As a result, the Commission has limited powers to regulate the use of surplus by the fund. This is not a desirable state of affairs since the use of the surplus has often benefited the employer to the prejudice of the members. ZAPF argues that this concept of actuarial surplus was adopted and modified from the South African law, but it is not so clear how this will be implemented in Zimbabwe.
4.8 Clauses 22-29 Management and Administration
This part of the Bill provides for the management and administration of the fund. The members of the public welcomed this provision which provides for the establishment and functions of a Board of Fund. The current Act only provides for the appointment and functions of the Principal Officer and leaves the appointment and functions of the Board to be provided for in the regulations. This was noted a great deficiency in the Act since the Board is the governing authority of the fund that is responsible for all decision making. However, Clause 23, subsection 3 provides that ‘No person shall be appointed as a board member of more than three funds.’ Members of the public questioned why one person must be allowed to be a board member of at least three funds and not only one board. It was proposed that one person sits on one board.
ZAPF welcomes clause 25 which provides for the qualification and disqualification as member of board. Clause 25 (1) and (2) ensures that a board member is highly qualified and have the requisite experience to run the affairs of a pension fund. ZAPF submitted that this development regarding the corporate governance of funds was welcome as it gives the board fiduciary responsibilities, collectively and individually.
4.9 Clauses 30-36: Financial Requirements
Clause 31 provides for holding of assets of fund. The current Act states that assets of a fund can be held in the name of a nominee and there is no strict obligation to ensure immediate transfer of ownership when the fund acquires an asset. The COI observed that some funds had assets, particularly real estate that were acquired years back but whose ownership title had not been transferred to the fund. Thus, members of the public noted that such a scenario may easily result in misappropriation of assets that take long to be changed title. Thus, it was suggested that where such assets are purchased in the name of a nominee, transfer of ownership to the fund must be done as soon as possible after acquiring the asset. The Bill proposes that all assets of Fund be registered in the name of the fund or ‘any other person who is approved by the Commission or who is a member of a class of persons approved by the Commission.’ While the public applauded the strengthening of IPEC to oversee pension fund assets management, concerns were raised that the legislation continuously gives the Commission absolute discretionary power. ZIMPIRT and other concerned stakeholders submitted that under no circumstances should the Commission be allowed to discretionarily approve of any person of class of persons, other than the fund, to control the assets of a pension fund.
In addition to that, Clause 32 has been enhanced by requiring that financial statements of funds be submitted within three months after end of financial year. ZAPF welcomes the proposal as it enhances corporate governance of funds in Zimbabwe. However, ZIMPIRT argues that the clause should also provide for accounting and auditing principles and practice to be pari passu (equal footing) with international accounting and auditing standards as issued by International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS) and the International Accounting Standards Board (IASB). This will firstly, enhance comparability between pension funds of same size locally and internationally and secondly, avoid creative accounting such as what happened for pension funds for periods after 1996 as the inquiry insinuates.
Clause 33 ensures that life insurers maintain separate pensions fund and separate Accounts. Currently, Section 16 of the Act only requires the insurer to show the aggregate assets that have been designated as assets of the pension fund on the balance sheet of the insurer. There is no requirement to provide details of the assets. This makes tracking of the assets difficult as the actual details of the underlying assets is known by the insurer and not by the Commission or the fund member. This exposes funds to the risk of the insurer switching assets to favour the shareholders at the expense of the fund members. Thus, the Bill seeks to ensure that returns submitted to Commission by an insurer should clearly show the aggregate value of Pensions Fund, the detailed split of funds, as well as each fund’s share of the balances comprising the Pensions Fund together with details of the underlying assets supporting the Pensions Fund. ZIMPIRT submits that an additional clause be inserted criminalizing any insurer failing to keep shareholder funds distinct from policyholder funds in a deterrent way. This will prevent insurers from engaging in this malpractice.
Clause 35 stipulates how funds may be invested in and outside Zimbabwe. The current Act does not allow funds to invest all their assets in foreign markets. Section 18 of the Act gives the Commission discretion to invest part of the assets in foreign markets. However, the Bill gives the Commissioner discretion to allow funds to be invested either part or all of their assets in foreign markets. However, ZIMPIRT argues that while the Commission has a role to play in authorizing investments, it is critical that the legislation provides for appropriate pension fund investment policies and asset-liability management practices. ZAPF proposed that the Bill prescribe minimum or limits to specific foreign investment for planning purposes, stability and continuity. Investments above a certain set threshold would then require further engagement with the Regulator. Other principles to govern reporting standards of investments shall be further stipulated in regulations given that such principles are not static.
4.10 Clauses 37-42: Supervision and Investigation of Funds
Clauses 37 and 38 provides for appointment and powers of Inspectors. The current Act is silent on the powers of Inspectors which is a legislative gap that inhibits the effectiveness of on-site inspections and investigations by IPEC especially where the entity being investigated resists or refuses to cooperate. Thus the Bill clearly defines the powers of Inspectors providing a sure basis to enforce compliance from the entity that will be under inspection or investigation.
Clause 39 provides for action that may be taken by the Commission upon discovering illegal conduct by fund. The current law is limited on the action that IPEC can take in response to identified illegal conduct. While the Act provides powers for IPEC to conduct inquiries or investigations into the affairs of a fund, it does not state what action will be taken thereafter. There is need to clearly state the actions that may be taken by IPEC to ensure that the response is appropriate to the conduct which it seeks to address and has a legal basis.
Clauses 40, 41 and 42 read together with clause 39 are exhaustive in ensuring that IPEC is adequately empowered to carry out its supervisory role on pension funds. The regulated entities are also clear on the action that IPEC as the regulator is empowered to enforce. However, members of the public were of the view that there must be a provision that regulates conflict of interest in relation to IPEC discharging its duties. It was proposed that the following provisions be added (a) statutory objectives of the regulator, (b) transparency in the appointment of office bearers and (c) performance assessment in the achievement of statutory objectives.
4.11 Clause 46-65: General
This section provides for the general pension issues such as right of members to information, amalgamations, splits and transfers of funds, termination of service, currency conversion, appeals and offences among others.
Clause 49 provides for currency conversion. The COI observed that the lack of a sector-specific guideline on how to manage the conversion of assets and liabilities of insurers and pension funds during the currency changeover was one of the major causes of loss of value by pensioners and pension scheme members. It was also noted that legislation governing insurance and pensions was also inadequate for the purposes of guiding the industry on currency reforms. Therefore, this provision seeks to guide process of conversion of benefits following any currency conversion within Zimbabwe and minimise the risk of loss of value as occurred during the 2009 currency conversion as a result of the absence of adequate guidance. However, ZAPF noted that while this provision seeks to deal with past economic failures, the concept of currency conversion should be dealt with by the fiscal authority and not in the Act.
Clause 59 provides for conversion of funds from one form to another. The Bill noted the various forms of funds, namely; defined contribution, defined benefit, hybrid fund or any other conversion. IPEC pointed out that submissions received from pensioners during public hearings conducted by the COI revealed lack of transparency and communication with members when most pension funds were converted from defined benefit to defined contribution in the early 2000s. The current law does not oblige funds to seek such approval when converting from one form to another. As a result, the Commission, in most circumstances, has not been able to monitor such processes and in some instances this has resulted in loss of value to the fund members. The prejudice has frequently been difficult to correct as IPEC normally become aware of the conversion at a later stage normally through complaints lodged by fund members regarding the level of benefits. Thus, to require every fund to seek the approval of the Commissioner prior to conversion will enable the Commission to monitor and guide the process for the protection of fund members.
Clause 63 provides for enactment of regulations which empowers the Commission to regulate for various matters which are necessary for giving effect to the Act and for the proper conduct of pension and provident fund business. This is essential as the nature of certain activities within the industry is such that they are highly responsive to macro factors. As a result, what may have been applicable in a specified time may be deficient in a later time. Such matters are best dealt with in the regulations as regulations are easy to amend as opposed to the Acts of parliament. However, ZAPF highlighted the need for the Act to provide the timeframe for regulations to be in place, especially that regarding record keeping and preservation of records by funds and fund administrators. Given the long-term nature of pension business, all pension funds, life assurers and fund administrators should be compelled to maintain robust record keeping systems on members’ contribution records, investment returns and benefit payments.
Clause 64 calls for the creation of a Pension Protection Fund. The current law does not provide for a fund that is set up to compensate fund members in the event that a fund becomes insolvent and fails to meet its obligations. As a result, members of such funds suffer total loss. The banking sector has the Deposit Protection Corporation whilst the securities market has an Investor Protection Fund established in terms of the Securities and Exchange Act [Chapter 24:25].
4.14 Discretionary Powers to the Commission
Members of the public raised concern over too much discretionary powers given to the Commission by the Bill, which might be problematic. Clauses 12, 31, 35, 40, 41 and 42 must be reviewed. Some members of the public suggested that the current pension funds such as MIPF, NSSA, ZAPF and others must be strengthened in term of administration of funds. Further to that, it was noted that instead of assigning arbitrary powers to the Commission, the Bill should state explicitly the responsibilities of IPEC in relation to (a) conduct of transaction between insurance companies and pension members, (b) pension fund record keeping and accounting, (c) pension fund solvency issues and (d) pension fund investment management.
4.17 Other General Comments
The majority of the participants who were pensioners bemoaned the paltry pensions being paid out by pensions funds, particularly NSSA. It was clear during the hearings that the members of the public would want an urgent review of the NSSA Act so that it is in line with the global trends. It was noted that NSSA has properties across the country and yet the pensioners are suffering.
The general public bemoaned poor investment and abuse of pension funds by Fund managers who purchase properties whilst the contributors are not getting any value from the monthly payments.
Members of the public were also concerned that most pension funds in Zimbabwe do not have the requisite professionals to oversee pension funds management. For example, it was pointed out that NSSA and IPEC do not have Actuaries which then compromise the operations of the Fund. The Bill must ensure and enforce recruitment of pension fund employees based on merit and competency to avoid pension calculation challenges.
The public also called the Government to review the age to receive benefits once one retires as pension funds wait for one to reach 65 to start receiving pension even after taking early retirement.
It was proposed that pension funds must include a borrowing window for its clients so that as people draw closer to retirement, they are able to borrow and prepare for retirement. Others proposed a once-off pay out at reaching 40 years so that employees are able to start preparing for retirement.
The members of the public noted with concern that most pension boards, such as NSSA had no representation from the pensioners themselves. It was proposed that the Bill provides for such so that the voice of the pensioner is heard. The pension boards cannot make decisions on behalf of pensioners without involving them.
Some participants noted with concern the poor treatment of widow/ers and children once the beneficiary dies. This was noted particularly on pension pay out which is reduced by 50% once the beneficiary dies. It was suggested that the pension must not be reviewed downwards and that the age limit of 21years for children be reviewed upwards to about 25 years.
The public submitted the exclusion of workers such as gardeners and housemaids from the bill yet they are also employed. It was proposed that the informal sector, including domestic workers be targeted also to participate in paying pension contributions.
Pensioners noted with concern that most pension funds head offices are in Harare and called for decentralisation of such funds in line with the spirit of devolution.
Some members of the public suggested that contributing towards a pension must not be made compulsory but must be left to the discretion of the individual.
5.0 Committee Observations
5.1 That the current Pension and Provident Funds Act of 1976 has since been overtaken by events and require a complete overhaul so as to bring the pension and insurance industry up to date with global trends. The legislative gap that has accrued over time has contributed to the loss of value to investments, particularly during the hyper-inflation era, currency de-basing period, dollarisation of the economy and the delayed de-monetisation of the ZW$ currency prejudicing policy-holders and pensioners.
5.2 That the majority of pensioners in Zimbabwe are wallowing in poverty due to a lack of legislation that protects them. Worse still, the paltry pension is reduced by 50% when the beneficiary dies living the widow/ers and children worse off.
5.3 That traditionally, pension funds are managed by ‘board of trustees’ as provided for in the current Act and not ‘board of directors’ as proposed by the Bill.
5.4 That some pension funds are taking too long (e.g. one year up to more than 18 years) to start giving pension pay-outs upon one’s retirement. This means that some pensioners may die without even enjoying their pension.
5.5 That most pension pay-outs are so little that pensioners can hardly afford medical care in hospitals. Pensioners naturally would require medical insurance more in their old age as compared to their working years.
5.6 That the proposal to constitute a quorum of members or beneficiaries exceeding fifty per centum of the total members as envisioned in the bill in Clause 15 (6) (a) is too ambitious and not practical. The Committee noted that a pension fund can have more ten thousand members and beneficiaries who are scattered across the country, as was noted by the MIPF.
5.7 That some companies are failing to remit contributions to pension funds which in turn prejudice employees their hard earned pension (e.g. case of Hwange Colliery Company). The Committee therefore welcomes Clause 17 which seeks to penalize companies that fails to remit such funds to pension funds.
5.8 That one of the challenges bedeviling the pensions industry as noted by the COI was poor corporate governance practices by the board as well as absence of legislative requirements governing corporate governance. The lack of adequate representation in boards by the pensioners themselves was a cause for concern for the Committee.
5.9 That conflict of interest must be avoided at all costs between IPEC and pension funds, especially if one is either a shareholder, director or board member of a pension fund. One cannot be a regulator and be a participant at the same time.
5.10 That Clause 23 (3) provides for one to be appointed as a board member of not more than three funds. However, the Committee noted with concern why one person would be allowed to sit in at least three 3 boards and not limited to one fund.
5.11 That some pension funds continue to purchase and register company assets under private individuals or directors and this scenario may easily result in misappropriation of assets, especially if title is not changed to reflect the Fund name. While the Committee applauded the strengthening of IPEC to oversee pension fund assets management, concerns were raised in relation to empowering the Commission in Clause 31(1) to have absolute discretionary power to ‘approve any person’ to hold company assets instead of the Fund. It is the responsibility of the Commission to safeguard the assets of members by ensuring that all assets are registered in the Fund’s name.
5.12 That the provision allowing pension funds to invest in foreign markets is a welcome development. However, Clause 35 (b) which allows pension funds to invest ‘all’ or part of its assets in foreign markets was problematic. The Committee fully recognizes the role of pension and insurance funds in economic development and therefore argues that allowing ‘all’ funds to be invested in foreign markets was regressive.
5.13 That Clause 35 (3) (a) of the Bill allows lending of pension funds to individuals or employees of the Fund. However, the Minister may prescribe a cap to the percentage to which a pension fund shall be exposed in terms of loans. It is important that a percentage cap is set so as to reduce exposure of the fund to abuse.
5.14 That Clause 49 on currency conversion is a welcome development as it seeks to protect policyholders. However, the Committee noted with concern that the clause lacked proper guidance by relevant authorities like IPEC or Minister on what should happen in the industry in the event that there is need for currency conversion. The Bill only provides that the boards of each existing fund give a directive for calculation of benefits, assets and liabilities of the fund among others.
5.15 That Clause 54 (1) the provision to allow the Commission to submit reports within six months is not in line with the constitutional provision in Section 323. It is now standard that reports by Commissions are tabled in Parliament within three months after the end of each financial year.
5.16 That Clause 58 on indemnity clause by members and employees of the Commission, which seeks to protect IPEC and its staff from negligence is problematic. The Committee observed that this provision might be an avenue for abuse of power by IPEC and its staff.
5.17 That the establishment of the Pension Protection Fund under Clause 64 is a welcome development that was long overdue. However, the Committee is concerned about the development of regulations which shall be legislated through the IPEC Act.
5.18 That IPEC as a regulator and other statutory pension funds like NSSA are failing to attract Actuaries who are at the core of pension and insurance industry due to uncompetitive remuneration. The Committee noted that Actuaries play a major role in giving guidance to investment developments in the sector.
6.0 Committee Recommendations
6.1 That Clause 1 on the Bill title be correctly named as on the current Act as follows; Pension and Provident Funds Bill and to delete the s on Pensions so that it corresponds with provision on Clause 1.
6.2 That Board of Directors be changed to Board of Trustees.
6.3 Some of the definition in the Bill be correctly defined as raised by the stakeholders in this report so that they reflect the actual meaning in relation to the Bill. Definitions must not be ambiguous.
6.3.1 The definition of Actuary in line 10 of the Bill page 6 be amended by deletion of the words ‘approved by the Commissioner’ from time to time for the purpose of this Act’ and replace it with ‘gazetted by the commission’ from time to time for the purpose of this Act.
6.3.2 The definition of stakeholders in line 17 on page 10 of the Bill should be amended by the addition of the following words ‘such as founding members, pensioners, former members, deferred pensioners and employer participating in the fund’.
6.3.3 The definition of valuator in line 23 on page 10 should be amended by deletion of subsection [b]
6.4 That Clause 4 on the responsibility of the Commissioner should be amended by deletion of the words ‘in consultation with’ in line 34 on page 10 and substituting by the words ‘under the direction of’.
6.5 That Clause 5 and Clause 6 on Delegation of function by the Commissioner and additional function of the Commission be deleted and the other clauses renumbered accordingly. These two clauses are better strengthened in the superior IPEC Act [24:09].
6.6 That clause 15 (6) (a) on page 18 line 31 be amended by deletion of all the words after quorum and replace them with the following words ‘comprising of representatives of membership from at least two thirds of the members and beneficiaries who are democratically elected by members every two years.’
6.7 That clause 16 (11) in line 25 be amended by insertion of the following words between employer and commission, ‘the approval from two third of the employees so affected as well as the pension fund from which the employer seeks to exit from.’
6.8 That a time frame of one month be set for pensioners to start receiving their pay-out upon retirement and any defaulting Fund be penalized by pegging interest on the pension pay-out.
6.9 That most pension funds consider including medical insurance for all pensioners so that they will be able to access medical care when need arise.
6.10 That IPEC be empowered to garnish funds when an employer defaults in payments of contributions to the pension fund. Clause 17 should therefore be amended by insertion of a new 17(5) with the other following subsection renumbered accordingly, that ‘The Commission may garnish a participating employer who fails to remit pension contributions for a period of three months consecutively without a reasonable excuse.’
6.11 That Clause 23 (3) be amended to allow a Board member to sit in only one board and give others chance and opportunity.
6.12 That IPEC board members must not be either a shareholder, director or board member of a fund so as to avoid conflict of interest.
6.13 Clause 3 (1) on holding of assets of funds be amended by deletion of ‘or any other person who is approved by the Commission or who is a member of class of pensions approved by the Commission.’ Under no circumstances should the Commission be allowed to discretionarily approve of any class of persons, other than the fund, to control the assets of a pension fund. The Commission should ensure that the assets are registered in the name of the Pension Fund.
6.14 Clause 32 (3) should be deleted from the Bill. The commission should not be allowed the discretion to waiver the production of audited accounts.
6.15 That Clause 35 (3) (ii) stating that, ‘Provided that the Commission may exempt, either wholly or in part, any fund established by a local authority or a statutory body from this paragraph.’ be deleted and insert, ‘In the event of any inconsistency between this Act and any other enactment, this Act shall prevail.’
6.16 That the Bill provides a cap of not more than 25% of assets for pension funds to invest in foreign markets.
6.17 That the Minister prescribes no more than 10% on the cap to which a pension fund shall be exposed in terms of loans to a holding company or fund employees so as to reduce exposure or any abuse of the fund.
6.18 That an insertion be included in the Bill that empowers relevant authorities like IPEC or Minister to provide guidance in terms of policy in the industry in the event that there is need for currency conversion.
6.19 That the establishment of the Pension Protection Fund under Clause 64 must be clearly spelt out in the IPEC Act and not through regulations.
6.20 That pension benefits be pegged in line with the Poverty Datum Line while at the same time ensure that IPEC is empowered to regulate pension benefits.
6.21 That Clause 54 (1) be amended to reflect the constitutional provision stipulated on Section 323 of the Constitution which requires Commissions to report to Parliament ‘not later than the end of March in the following year to which the report relates.’
6.22 That Clause 58 on the Indemnity Clause be amended to recommend civil penalty for acting recklessly in line of duty.
6.23 That the Minister tables the IPEC and NSSA Acts as soon as possible for amendments to address some of the following sticky issues in the current Bill; i.e. role of IPEC in regulating pension funds, board membership and areas of conflict of interest, among others.
7.0 Conclusion
The proposed piece of legislation aims at addressing the regulatory inadequacies and weaknesses observed by the Justice Smith-led Commission of Inquiry (COI) as well as strengthening the Insurance and Pensions Commission’s (IPEC) regulatory, supervisory and monitoring role of the industry, among others. Therefore, the Bill is progressive and once passed into law would bring the sector into line with market developments and international best practice. In addition to that, the Bill aims at providing for a legal framework for the prudential regulation and supervision of insurance business in Zimbabwe that is consistent with the Constitution and promotes the maintenance of a fair, safe and stable insurance market. However, the Committee still implores upon the Hon. Minister to consider tabling of subsidiary legislation like the IPEC and NSSA Acts for amendment so that implementation is not hampered by legislative gaps. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing this Bill to the House. I believe this Bill will correct all the anomalies that are being faced by pensioners. When we were gathering information as a Committee moving around the country, we got a lot of complaints from the public, particularly the fact that the monies being received by pensioners are insignificant. Some were saying that after being retrenched or in some cases after retirement, some do not receive their monies until they pass on. This is despite the fact that they would have worked throughout their adult lives, even those who get their monies were citing the fact that the amounts are meagre. So, I believe that this Bill will ensure that after working for many years, they receive their pensions.
We also noted that some companies are collecting money from their employees and investing these finances whilst the owners of these funds are not benefitting in any way. This is painful because the pensioners see their monies being invested in infrastructure at the expense of pension schemes. I believe this Bill is going to solve this challenge.
I would also like to talk about how this is affecting women. There were a lot of complaints from women who indicated that after they lost their husbands, they face a lot of challenges following up on their husbands’ pensions. This is affecting both women and children who are supposed to be beneficiaries of the late pensioner. I am happy that this Bill is going to correct past anomalies especially looking at the point that in the past, some had access to the pensions office and got their pensions. However, those in the rural areas were prejudiced. Some even said they have worked for so many years but have nothing to show for it. Women also said that their husbands informed them that after passing on, they benefit from their pensions as a family but nothing of the sort is happening. This is a challenge being faced by so many people.
As a Committee, it is our wish and desire that this Bill passes because during public hearings, we noted that the public is not happy, they are pained because these issues need to be solved as soon as possible. Those who were given the task of looking into this issue for instance the IPEC should make sure this issue is resolved so that we do not continue receiving complaints from people who work but do not receive their pensions. This company should discharge its duties with fortitude so that pensioners get their pensions and dues. I would like to concur with the Chairman’s input towards this Bill. I thank you.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I would also like to add my voice to the report presented by Dr. Nyashanu on the Pensions and Provident Funds Bill. Firstly, I would like to allude to the fact that the Bill seeks to modernise the regulation and supervision of the pensions sector so that it grows in a more transformed and inclusive manner. This Bill is very important to all of us because one day we are going to be pensioners and therefore this legal framework must make sure that it balances the interest of both the pension funds and pensioners.
After conducting public hearings, we gathered a lot of information and I would like to focus more on what was said by pensioners. One of the pensioners said pensioners are destitutes. They are aged and are dying because of the paltry pensions they are currently getting. Most of them said they are getting around ZW$400 per month which is an equivalent of four loaves of bread Madam Speaker. This is very pathetic. This Bill is also premised on the Justice Smith Commission which was mandated to investigate and establish like what the Minister said, the total value and type of assets owned by insurance companies and pension funds, to determine the causes of loss of value of Insurance and Pension Fund and establish the extent of prejudicing any policy holders and pensioners amongst others.
Madam Speaker, based on this, it is very clear that there is definitely prejudice particularly to pensioners. Pensioners are senior citizens who have worked for years contributing to the development of this country but the sad reality is that they have absolutely nothing to show that they worked before towards nation building. Senior citizens were looked after very well during the good old days but now pensioners are in a sorry state Madam Speaker. Pensioners have been reduced to destitutes, they cannot even feed their families. They cannot send their children to school. They cannot pay for their overheads and more importantly, they cannot pay for their health needs. Due to the fact that they cannot meet their health needs, pensioners then propose that there be an establishment of a health facility for pensioners which is going to be subsidised because the older they get, the more unhealthier they become. Pensioners also decry the pension fund which they contributed and that they have invested their money into assets in the form of buildings such that those buildings are generating a lot of money and yet pensioners are not getting no value from the monthly payments.
Madam Speaker, the public noted with concern the poor treatment of widows and their children like what Hon. Moyo said. Once the beneficiary dies, they also complain that their paension is reduced immediately after the beneficiary passed on. This matter is very urgent and must be looked into as a matter of urgency. Pensioners indicated that their pension must be aligned with the poverty datum line and that they must be matched with the standard of living because being a pensioner does not mean that your stomach is starved such that you are now taking little food. They want their salaries to be matched with the poverty datum line.
The public also bemoaned the exclusion of workers such as workers and housemaids from the Bill yet they are also in employment. They propose that the informal sector, including domestic workers be targeted also and participate in paying pension contributions so that they also get income when they retire and grow older.
Based on all this Madam Speaker, it is of paramount importance that our recommendation as raised by the Chairperson, Dr. Nyashanu be taken on board so that there is modernisation of the pension sector and that there be improved management and supervision of the sector so that it grows in a more transformed and inclusive manner taking into consideration balancing the interests of both the Pension Fund and the pensioners in order that there be a win-win situation because in the majority cases, pensioners are always on the receiving end with nothing to show that they are indeed pensioners who are senior citizens who built this country.
Lastly Madam Speaker, I would like to propose a pensioners’ Indaba as part of dialogue which must be attended to by the President so that he listens to the problems faced by the people who worked for this country to be where it is right now. This will afford him an opportunity to understand what pensioners are going through. Once he has an appreciation of these issues, he might be in a position to address them to the satisfaction of pensioners. Madam Speaker, I submit and I support the report and hope that our recommendations are going to be taken on board. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise to support the report from the Budget and Finance Committee as presented by the Chairperson of the Committee, Hon. Dr. Nyashanu. Madam Speaker, I want to raise these issues pertaining to this Bill. Pension and the welfare of pensioners is a topical issue in Zimbabwe given the history that we have gone through in the years of the hyperinflation that we have experienced in this country from the 2008, 2009 era followed by the time we removed the 1:1 pegging of the US dollar to the RTGS. Pensioners did lose a lot of money.
Madam Speaker, my main issue that I want to raise with the Hon. Minister pertains to the piece-meal way of pension reform that the Hon. Minister is doing. The Hon. Minister has brought in the new Pensions and Provident Fund to repeal the current one. I think it is clear Hon. Minister, if you look into the report of the Budget and Finance Committee, hat there are certain key and fundamental issues that the people out there have raised and the recommendations that the Committee on Budget and Finance has submitted. More importantly, in my view, is that it was prudent for the Hon. Minister to first and foremost bring the Insurance and Pensions Commissions Act Amendment because this is the main Act in as far as pension and insurance is concerned. This was to me the most important thing and the first thing that the Hon. Minister was supposed to do. Once the Minister has brought the amendment to the IPEC Act Chapter 24.21, the Minister would then bring in this amendment to the Pensions and Provident Fund as well as the amendment to the insurance and other pieces of legislation whose mandate is tied up to the IPEC Act.
Most of the recommendations you will find out Hon. Minister, are that as long as we do not deal first with IPEC, it creates a huge problem because some of the powers, for instance if you look even under Clause 6, the functions of the Commission are conferred under the IPEC and here we then have additional powers coming. The right way of legislating is to amend the main Act and then come up with subsidiary. Once it is done, it becomes easier.
Hon. Minister, the challenge that we even faced as a Committee is that when we went out there to meet the people, because the main Act has not been amended and we are now dealing with a subsidiary legislation, it meant that most people would not speak to the Bill per se but would just speak to other issues that concern them, especially the pensioners and some of the people that have lost their money through the insurance. We would then allow them to ventilate their issues though technically they were not related to the Bill per se. My request Hon. Minister, I am aware that the Pension Amendment Bill is now there but I would be happier that if we could have a mechanism to combine all these so that we know whatever we are doing in terms of insurance pension reform, then everything is done.
There are several clauses that we have mentioned to the Budget and Finance Committee that we feel need to be looked into but if you go through the report, you will realise that some of the issues that were raised are primarily because the IPEC Act itself needs to be panel-beaten so that it fits the modern pension of today. You will know Madam Speaker, that insurance all over the world is the backbone of economic development.
Hon. Minister will be aware that the question of inflation did not only affect the pensioners but in a way it also affected some pension houses. Why do I say that Madam Speaker? Go and look into the prescribed assets of most of the insurance companies and Pension Fund, most of them before the hyperinflation period had actually invested and bought Treasury Bills, bought Government stock and invested hoping that Government stock is true and proper vehicle for investment. What has then happened Madam Speaker, is that in the process, whilst Government projects or the reason they managed to raise the money, at the end of the day it is the pensioner that then suffers. This is the reason why some of us believe that the first and foremost port of call is the Government. That is why in a way what Dr. Khupe was talking about the question of having a pension indaba comes into play because Government owes the pensioners as we speak. It is not the pension fund only that owes the pensioners, no. It is also the Government. We need to do an analysis and say to ourselves, how much money or how many Treasury Bills were bought by insurance and pension fund prior to the hyper- inflation of 2008. We also need to ask how much money in terms of Treasury Bills or bonds that is the insurance and pension fund have bought prior to the Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019. Those are fundamental issues if this country is going to move forward. We can never move forward as a country if the workers that contributed to the growth of this economy over the years are languishing in poverty. We cannot move forward Hon. Minister as long as the people that used to do and perform a lot of good work are suffering.
During the outreach programme, you would see some of the people that I used to meet during my time in the bank – these were the people who were literally running the industry; people that were chief executives in their domain, but if you meet them now, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Finally Madam Speaker, I would urge and appeal to the Hon. Minister, if it is possible, can you take a step back; would it hurt the Ministry to consider bringing the amendment to the IPEC so that we debate and discuss these issues together. As Parliament, we are in full support of all these Bills that intend to modernise and reform the insurance and pension industry. We are simply saying Hon. Minister, is it possible or would it hurt a lot if we could ensure that we come up with the combo that brings everything on board, then we deal with this issue once and for all so that we will not have other problems. The problem with some of these clauses is that they tend to leave a lot of loopholes and we are simply saying that we cannot afford to have any amendment or legislation that leaves some room for other people to exploit pensioners tomorrow. Like Hon. Khupe was saying, you and I are potential pensioners and we will be pensioners very soon. We need to make sure that this is rectified. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: I want to applaud the Finance and Budget Committee led by the able Chairman, Hon. Dr. Nyashanu who really pushed this in a direction which many would not. What I want to emphasise – and I am glad that the Minister is here, is that the downfall of this pension fund is that they were given to people without capacity. You cannot say that Parliament has a pension fund and must still run it and control it. The most important thing that has got to happen is that all these pension funds must fall under IPEC, directly. We have people who understand investment.
Look at NSSA today. It has become a looting machinery for anybody, yet the pensioners themselves are not benefiting. If you look at the investments which NSSA has done, some which have not yielded any results to the detriment of the pensioners - nobody has said anything about that because it is within the company. The CEO has not got the capacity. Actuarial Scientists are needed for these issues. It is a different ball game in terms of investment. Most of the CEOs in these companies do not understand what investment means. If you look at what NSSA did – for example it got into many investments ranging from the Capital Bank which went bankrupt and left the pensioners with nothing. We move on to many other transactions that they were involved in – for as long as we do not have these pension funds falling under IPEC, we will still encounter the same problems. IPEC then brings on board people who are able to understand the markets. This is a big game. It is about understanding the global markets and how many people in these institutions understand global markets today? It is critical that we have people stationed under IPEC and are able to understand the global markets where the investments are going at the end of the day.
The reason why I am saying this is that if we had anybody with capacity to think, this money would be used to buy gold which should then be kept at the Reserve Bank. That gold is the one that you monetise so that you are able to get value. With inflation, it is simple – gold is being bought in Zimbabwean dollars, the pensioners money is in Zimbabwean dollars. Why has that money gone to buy gold and you cannot go wrong with gold. It is kept at the Reserve Bank and they are able to then use that in doing whatever they want in trading or even buying fuel for the Government. You do not need the Ministry of Finance to be getting money elsewhere when we have money here. The foreign currency lies in gold and the minerals of this country. When they now want that product, be it fuel, they are able to pay pensioners at whatever they were going to pay, for Government is using a lot of foreign currency in finding these resources which we need as basics. Why can these resources at RBZ gold not be the ones to be used to do that?
We have a situation where the Justice Smith report is a good report. It must certainly be applauded for the work done but the timing is critical, where you are in a hyper inflationary environment. Six months changes – the report done in 2018/19, we are in 2021 - a lot has changed. How relevant is it today in terms of the welfare of the people? The Bill itself talks about the aspect of having trustees. Money is something that requires people that can be trusted. The other issue is: what sort of trustees are you looking at? It was not specific, and I like the fact that the pensioners themselves must not be involved so that there is no conflict of interest in whatever they will be doing, but we still have not spoken to exactly who do we want to be able to be a trustees in this? What sort of curriculum vitae are we looking for? Are we looking for CAs, lawyers, actuarial scientists or what because the next thing is you are going to have people who are not qualified.
The same way we have done with Community Share Ownership Trusts. It is not every chief who has the capacity, with due respect to the chiefs, but they sit on The Community Share Ownership Trust and they do not understand certain issues yet you have said the chiefs must sit there. It is important for us to distinguish exactly who we want to sit there. Are they actuarial scientists, CA or what and how did they come about to be there because if we do not have the people who understand these investments, it will be very difficult for us to be able to maintain the same capacity to ensure that these people are well resourced.
Madam Speaker, you will see that brick and mortar is the way to go. These pension funds, you can see they have been building houses. The question that I want to ask is of these houses that they have been building, why equally have they not invited pensioners to also be part of the scheme because once they benefit a house and are getting rent, that is good enough benefit at the end of the day but they have been building houses for everyone yet the people who put in money have nothing. When they can get their rentals of US$200 per month, they are able to be sustained but now most of the beautiful houses that you are seeing, the developments are pension funds which are going to private companies and do not benefit the pensioner.
Now, there are scams. They are telling you they are receiving rentals in Z$ yet they receive in foreign currency. They give you at interbank rate yet they are getting the hard currency. So, there are too many scams which have come up as a result of that. How then do we protect the pensioner from these scams which are happening? It is important that we also look at the time frame. The board itself of trustees, how long do you want it in office because I did not hear that being mentioned at all and we also want to look at the way the pensioners will be able to communicate.
There is the issue of them reporting to Parliament quarterly but the pensioners, when are they going to be briefed on all these issues? Why are we coming up with projects which they do not understand and do not know? Which format are you coming with to also educate them on the direction that you are taking in terms of investments of their money? Parliament, yes we represent people but I have not understood or heard how the stakeholders will also be briefed about investments or so forth. That is the reason why there is that information gap which makes them think that there is a lot of money and money is being stolen because the communication is not there. We need to close that information gap so that they are all appraised where that money is going.
IPEC to me is critical and it is a board that must fall under the Ministry of Finance. Where do you get pension funds falling under labour? Yes, it is the labour that generates the money but the money must be managed by people who understand that and Ministry must be able to do that. The Hon. Minister must not be looking for command agriculture but must be able to be using this money and also pay the farmers a good price. Why are you creating Treasury Bills when we have so much money that is sitting there? For you to unlock the value you cannot because you are not in control of it.
With IPEC under you, then you are able to control these and that money goes towards what you will have targeted to be the turnaround of the economy. Right now we cannot do that and the value is diminishing every day. It is the private companies who are enjoying this money. We want to see this money going towards Government programmes which the Minister of Finance would have said these are critical for the turning around of the economy. We would rather suffer with this money being with Government than anybody else because Government is not going to go anywhere and Ministry of Finance must be mandated with immediate effect and it must be there in the Bill that this IPEC is under Ministry of Finance. As such, the pension funds must fall under Ministry of Finance but directly reporting to IPEC and IPEC being under the Ministry of Finance, the same way as ZIMRA.
We must understand we have a situation where the money that we seem not to be having in the country is somewhere but is not doing anything. From an inflation point of view, it is not benefitting anyone. It is my suggestion that IPEC becomes responsible for all pension funds and they will be remitting the money to them in a professional manner and find people with capacity to be able to run these pension funds. The investment so far which are testimony to bad governance of these pension funds have yielded absolutely nothing, only poverty, languishing amongst the pensioners at the end of the day and the gold model is important. You do not require the RBZ to print money.
My suggestion to the Minister is why not have IPEC through these funds be a shareholder of Fidelity because they will be pumping in the Z$ that you need and you do not need to print because they are getting it from the various investments which are there. These are ways which I thought are critical because the real issue here is how you maintain the value. This is the issue. You can only maintain the value by identifying commodities that are able to retain that value for you; gold and minerals are the ones that we have that we can now start saying go and get gold bars and so forth, deposit them with the RBZ and whenever you need your value you know what to. That is the way to go.
I would want to add my voice to say I must applaud the Chairman for bringing this up because like Hon. Priscilla Moyo said, it is an issue that people are crying about. I must applaud the members of the Committee for going out there to meet the people because they had no one. They thought they are on their own and we must be able to turn that around into a success by ensuring that the Bill that we put together is a people centred Bill which will give them some confidence that moving forward, I think people can retire and be able to enjoy the pensions that they have.
The timeframe again of a year to eighteen months is unacceptable. If you cannot get your pension when you are alive Madam Chair, what guarantee do you have when you are dead? When you are alive you are running around, when you are dead, you do not run around. The families suffer and I think that is not what pensions are for. They are there to sustain these families and this is the little legacy that they leave for themselves. Ndiko kunonzi baba, ndiko kunonzi amai nekuti takudya mari yakashandira baba and so forth.
I really want to thank the Committee for this job that you have done, Chairperson and your Committee, it is commendable. I think Parliament must really be involved because at the end of the day we are all pensioners when it comes to us and not being able to discharge our duties. Thank you very much.
(V)HON. MUSAKWA: Thank you Madame Speaker Ma’am, I would like to add my voice to the report on the Pensions and Providence Fund Bill brought by Dr. Nyashanu.
I would like to start by saying that if you are not a pensioner today, you are a potential pensioner tomorrow. What the Committee saw during the Outreach is a tip of the iceberg, it only goes to show that there are a lot of underlying problems in our pension industry. The pensioners mentioned that most of the funds that they contribute have to be regulated in such a manner that when they provide pension, it must have a component of health because most of the monies that they are being paid are not even enough for food, let alone the payment of medical bills and as a result, they are relegated to the graveyard sooner than necessary. So the pensioners were lamenting that they need the funds to be given a mandatory requirement to add the health component to their pensions.
They also lamented the low levels of payments they are getting as some are getting as little as RTGS22.00 per month which cannot even pay – I do not know what you can buy with it but they would have worked all their life only to be relegated to such abject poverty. This needs to be seriously looked at and legislated upon. They proposed that at least it be put into law, that they be given a pension that can equate to at least the poverty datum line so that they are able to survive or at least to have their pensions linked to a stable currency, for instance the United States of America dollar, the Euro, pound or Chinese Yen or any of the global stable currencies so that at least they are covered when there is hyperinflation or the economy changes. They also said that they need it regulated that once they retire, they must be paid their lump sum benefits and pensions within a reasonable time because some pension funds are going as far as 10 years before they even calculate someone’s lump sum benefit or even calculate their monthly stipends because the law is silent on such matters.
So the bringing up of this Bill must address issues such as that so that at least someone can predict to say if I retire today, in two weeks or in a month, I will get my dues. I think that is also very important. They also lamented the fact that the Bill must also include the acceptance of the Justice Smith Report as part of the law so that those pensioners whose incomes were eroded by inflation are properly compensated as per that report. They also lamented the fact that the national disasters such as COVID-19 have left them exposed because their meager pension incomes cannot even buy a sanitiser let alone a face mask. I think that this report is very timely and has to be looked at seriously for the national and common good and ensuring that these social safety nets are made functional. I submit Madam Speaker Ma’am.
(V)*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I just want to add my voice to this Bill. When we look at our pensioners today they are living in abject poverty because they are earning poor pensions- Someone who is now a pensioner is unable to work or sustain themselves. When someone is no longer capable of working and are now on pension, the Pension Fund should respect that person and treat him/her as a former worker. The Hon. Minister should come up with a USD scale so that even when there is inflation, using the bank rate, the person is able to get the actual value of the money that they were supposed to earn. Government should also be responsible for legislating Statutory Instruments that govern private and Government institutions to adhere to pension regulations because some non-governmental organisations are operating without adhering to pension obligations.
Like the example that I gave that in 2013, he/she was supposed to receive $15 000.00 and then convert it. Today RTGS84.00 multiplied by $15 000.00 is the money that one should get so that they are able to build a single room. Someone who has worked for more than 60 years should have something to show at the end of their working days. We have several pensioners in the rural areas that are now living in abject poverty and others are even dying early due to chronic diseases such as high blood pressure due to stress. The stress usually begins whilst they are still working due to poor salaries and gets worse once they are pensioners. This only goes to prove that our workers are miserable during their working lives and after.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I therefore urge the Hon. Minister to seriously look into this matter and consider paying pensioners in USD$ equivalent that can adequately sustain them. How can a pensioner be able to sustain himself/herself with a meager RTGS300.00 in this day and age? I thank you.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this motion which was raised by Hon. Nyabani. Pensioners are people who contribute to the economy of the country for so many years but they later face challenges because of the meager amounts they receive of pensions which are not commensurate with their contribution throughout their adult life. We also know that women face a lot of health challenges after 65 years like diabetes and other chronic illnesses. The point that is normally raised that they are supposed to receive free treatment is not correct.
So, my plea is that pensioners should be treated for free because medical aid does not apply to those who are on pension. It is important that pensioners benefit. When you look at the pensions that are given to retired civil servants, their pensions are so small that they are insignificant. It is important that Government looks into this issue so that pensioners receive significant amounts of money. Let me also look at widows who are supposed to benefit from their late husband’s pensions. They only get small amounts of money which cannot cater for all their needs. So it is important that they receive money which will be enough to take their children to school. I spoke of chronic illnesses like diabetes, but there is also hypertension which is very common to those who are above 65 years. It is important that they are looked after and they have enough money for their medication. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me start by thanking the Hon. Minister who brought this Bill to this august House so that we see and discuss it. If there is any input that we can give, then it is important that we do so. I would also appreciate Dr. Nyashanu’s Committee which did public hearings and gathered people’s views, especially pensioners’ input to the new Bill which is meant to better their lives - the pensioners who are elderly and who cannot continue to go to work. Most points have been debated on.
Let me start by saying that when you look at the claim forms that are being completed, they are complicated. For instance, NSSA claim forms. I was in the rural areas last week and my uncle who was employed by the National Railways of Zimbabwe is now short-sighted so much that he needs assistance in completing these claim forms every time he goes to claim his pension. My request is that the language that we use in these claim forms should be simple for someone who is claiming their pension. Languages is very important and even the clarity of the language, it is sometimes necessary to use local languages like Shona because the Constitution has that provision which clarifies that anyone has the right to communicate in a language that they are comfortable in using.
The second point is that when you look at where pensioners go to collect their pensions for example NSSA - when you look at the corner by Second Street, you will find elderly people accompanying each other to buy food because where they come from is very far. So, I would like to implore Government that there be decentralisation of the disbursement of pensions so that pensioners do not have to travel to Harare to receive their pensions. They should get their money wherever they are, whether it is in Gweru or whichever town because these are elderly people whom we should respect and honour because they contributed to the construction of different infrastructures in the country.
Madam Speaker, let me also concur with Hon. Mliswa who suggested that IPAC should fall under the Ministry of Finance. This will assist us and I know that this will be added responsibility to the Ministry of Finance, but we have specialists in that Ministry because if a mother is given a task of cooking, this is the Ministry of Labour, I believe that this budget should fall under the Ministry of Finance so that there is clarity on who should receive these pensions and how many pensioners are benefitting. I know that the database of pensioners falls under the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare but it is important that this happens.
Let me also share some other points. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I believe that we have seven years now, talking about the medical health scheme, which has not come to fruition yet. We are pursuing a lot of medical aid societies. I have a suggestion that pensions should be invested in medical schemes which would cater for the elderly. This is because most elderly people cannot afford to get medication. Instead of pension funds being invested in infrastructure, they should be invested in medical aid schemes for the elderly and those who are receiving their pensions. Contemporary pensions are not pensions because people who receive them are very mobile. They commute from their areas to towns to access their pensions. They cannot afford to relax. It is important that they have relaxation so that they benefit from their sweat.
Madam Speaker, my father was employed by the National Railways of Zimbabwe. When you look at the infrastructure like railway lines and trains, you will discover that a lot of work was done in that area. So, it is important that if there are pensions, then the young should learn a lot from that.
Let me also look at hospitals. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I know we have a hospital for civil servants but it is important that even private companies like OK, Delta and other companies have their own health care centres so that the elderly are able to access medication in a proper health care centre. This will be a culmination of what they worked for.
Madam Speaker, I would also like to talk about burial schemes. I have noticed that when a pensioner passes on, there is need for a collection for their burial expenses like coffin and other things. So, I would like to implore the Government that burial schemes be established so that they benefit pensioners. It is not my desire that they pass on but like what Hon. Mutambisi mentioned, we desire that the elderly rest whilst they are relaxing, getting proper medical care.
In the rural areas, you will discover that the elderly are anticipating adequate pensions and they believe that this would be solved because they contributed during public hearings. I would like to end by saying that the report which was brought to this august House is a good report and the recommendations should be adopted together with other recommendations that were proposed by Members of this august House. This should be taken up by the respective Ministries because this Bill is a good Bill which should sail through. So, I believe that the Ministry of Finance should have a legacy of such a Bill. This is a Bill which touches on how pensioners can benefit from this. You will discover that as Hon. Members of this august House, we are also growing old. In six or seven years, we will also be ageing and we would also expect our pensions. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I believe that what we are proposing should contribute towards success of the Bill and I support everything that was presented by Hon. Nyashanu and his Committee. As Hon. Members, we support the report and the Bill. I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th May, 2021.
(v) HON. GANDAWA: Madam Speaker, point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): What is your point of order?
(V)HON. GANDAWA: I was wondering if tomorrow you could also recognise people who will be online. We are not all in the House. I want to make my submissions. I will take it up tomorrow and I am praying that you will also recognise me.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Thank you Hon. Gandawa. I recognised a lot of people on the online platform. I am sure you were offline because if you were online you could have actually seen that I recognised a lot of people online on this debate. Thank you for that. I am sure when the debate comes again, you will be recognised and given an opportunity to debate.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 5 to 10 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 11 has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPEAL OF THE VAGRANCY ACT [CHAPTER 10: 25]
HON. S.K. MGUNI: I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House;
MINDFUL, that the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides for the comprehensive human rights and that Parliament must protect this Constitution;
ALSO COGNISANT that Section 56 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides for equality and non-discrimination to the extent that every person has a right not to be treated in an unfairly discriminatory manner on such grounds as their nationality, race, colour, tribe, place of birth, ethnic or social origin, language, class, religious belief, political affiliation, opinion, custom, culture, sex, gender, marital status, age, pregnancy, disability or economic or social status or whether they were born in or out of the wedlock;
DISTURBED that some existing statutes such as the Vagrancy Act [Chapter 10:25] are selective as they specifically target persons with no places to call home;
FURTHER DISTURBED that the term vagrant is defined as someone who maintains himself or herself by begging among other definitions;
NOW, THEREFORE resolves to;
- a)Repeal the Vagrancy Act [Chapter 10.25] as it does not safeguard the interests of vulnerable people;
- b)Conduct its constitutional mandate of ensuring that all citizens enjoy their basic human rights; and
- c)Recommend that all relevant institutions which deal with the underprivileged embark on a massive exercise to promote the rehabilitation of vulnerable people, particularly those without homes.
HON. RTD BRIG. GEN. MAYIHLOME: I second.
HON. S. K. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me an opportunity to move this motion to talk on a group of vulnerable members within our society, namely the street children. The twenty-first century presents a host of challenges which directly and indirectly affect millions of children in many African countries. An increasing number of children are being forced to the streets as a result of poverty, abuse, torture, rape, abandonment or have been orphaned by the AIDS pandemic and COVID-19. Human rights violations against children in the 1990s have become a common and disturbing occurrence in Zimbabwe. Indeed denial of basic human and legal rights, including the rights to life, liberty and security as a person to children are now a defining feature of the African socio-economic landscape. This motion seeks to address the causes and challenges being faced by street children and the subsequent solution being provided by the Government and the community due to the growing problem of street children. What kind of polices and strategies are African Governments putting in place? What are the families and communities doing? For instance, to what extent are families, schools and individual members of society dealing with this problem? How is Government dealing with the increasing number of unsupervised children living alone in urban streets? What role can the Non Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and community based organisations play in addressing the problem of street children? We contend that not enough is being done to address the problem and that indeed the problem of street children remains an ignored tragedy that is set to have devastating impact on the development of this country.
It is clear that the response to the problem as has been muted remains ignored, sidelined by Government and the general public. Key players who are supposed to play a leading role in finding a solution to the problem have become the major source of the problem. Government policies that embrace liberalisation and the free market economy are contributory factors to the persistent state of poverty and increased hardship with children being affected most. The family which is supposed to be the bedrock of children’s welfare and protection is today becoming a major cause of the problem of street children. Parents are sending their children into the streets to beg, steal or engage in petty trade. Children are leaving their homes to escape domestic violence or because of the breaking up of the family structures. Schools are turning into centres of violence and crime, creating an environment to put more children into the streets. We contend that Government polices directed by structural adjustment programme are responsible for putting more and more children onto the street as a result of increasing poverty instead of devising policies that will ensure the welfare of children and the society in general. The general public pretends not to notice the plight of an increasing number of destitute children on our streets. There is at present, real alarm or outrage from the general public on the increasing number of children on our streets even though these children face starvation and are at the mercy of unscrupulous individuals and a brutal police force. The Government and the community in general need to put in place viable polices or strategies that will ensure that the plight of street children is urgently addressed.
The phenomenon of street children is not new, and neither is it restricted to certain geographical areas (Connoly, 1990). The street urchin, the runaway. The street wives and stray children were part of the ‘urban landscape’ during the process of industrialisation and urbanisation in post-war Europe (Argelli, op,cit; Swart, w986). This has also been the case in many populations that have undergone political, social, or economic upheaval. The problem of street children in Zimbabwe may not be new as related by Grier (1996). Grier’s paper looks at the street children in Zimbabwe from the 1920s to the 1950s. This paper notes that native lads aged 10 to 14 were attracted to towns, mines and other centres. Colonial officials were concerned with the way children survived on the streets or made a living on the streets (Grier, 1996). Grier notes that many lads found wage, employment in urban areas as domestic servants and gardeners in white and black homes. In mining towns, the boys were hired directly by mining companies to cook and clean for the ‘senior’ black workers in the company’s single sex compounds. Boys were also seen performing domestic services, including in some cases, sexual services for ‘single’ black mine workers who lived in the huts they built for themselves in native locations adjacent to the mines (Grier, op.cit).
s of our urban areas appears to be a recent phenomenon in Zimbabwe. Prior to independence (1980), it was almost impossible for children to work in the streets as vendors, car-washers, beggars or parking boys as municipal by-laws that restricted this were brutally enforced. With independence, such enforcement of the restrictions became slack and unpredictable. Following independence, more children came onto the streets due to the inability of the Zimbabwean economy to create sufficient formal employment. Since 1975, there have been recurrent drought periods and the war that was in Mozambique. The Mozambican war displaced Mozambicans. This finding was also verified in the study that found that almost all vendors at Mbare Musika in Harare were of Mozamnbican origin (Dube et. al. 1991). Thus, for the larger number of street children, the underlying and basic causes for pushing children onto the streets lie in the increasing number of families surviving under extreme poverty, unemployment, lack of opportunity for social mobility and strained family relationships (Bourdillon, Grier and Muchini).
With the current economic strain, many children are dropping out of school opting to earn or beg for their living, education being substituted for work as money becomes a priority. One may argue, begging may be their own source of livelihood but as the old adage rings, ‘if you think education is expensive try ignorance’, which makes one wonder what their future holds as leaders of tomorrow.
Part 3 of the Children’s Act 2002, headed “prevention of neglect, ill treatment and exploitation of children and young person” cites that (Section 10 coined, ‘begging and public entertainment’, subsection 1, Part 1);
(i) Any parent or guardian of a child or young person, who allows that child or young person to;
(a) beg, or
(b) to accompany him/her whilst they beg, or
(c) to induce or to endeavour to induce the giving of alms or
(d) to perform or to be exhibited in any way for public entertainment in a manner detrimental to the child or young person’s health, morals, mind and body; is liable to a fine not exceeding level six or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year or both such fine and imprisonment.
Despite the existence of such Acts and penalties accrued to such offences, blatant disregard continues unabated. Children are seen aiding blind parents as they beg, others exposing themselves to accidents as they venture in the middle of the robot controlled intersections. Others are seen playing instruments alongside their parents/guardians as a means to attract money from passers-by. This is slowly becoming a norm as they are seen at almost all street corners. It is a survival means but it drains from tomorrow as they are instilled with the mindset of begging and might never learn to work for their upkeep.
Challenges being Faced by Street Children.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are a number of challenges being faced by street children in Zimbabwe and these include the following:
- i) Street life can be extremely traumatic, exposing children to high levels of hunger, violence and disease.
- ii)Both boys and girls face high levels of verbal, physical and sexual abuse, with girls at high risk of being forced to engage in commercial sex work.
iii) Children are routinely exploited and paid significantly less than adults for the same jobs.
- iv)Street activities carry physical risks, such as dangerous traffic, health risks, poor levels of hygiene and sanitization and other environmental hazards.
- v)Children often turn to substance abuse as a way of escaping the harsh realities of life on the street.
- vi)Street children face stigma and discrimination as they are labeled as criminal vagrants.
vii) Periodical round-ups and brutality from the police, reinforce street children’s criminalization and prevent these children from gaining the support and rehabilitation they need.
- a)Most street children are unable to attend school simply because they have to work to support themselves.
- b)The few street children who do go to school are regularly absent and achieve poor learning outcomes due to having a lack of time to study.
- c)Street children often struggle with low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence and a sense of worthlessness and shame.
- d)The stigma of being on the streets makes it difficult for children to integrate into education and with their peers.
- e)Teachers have not had adequate training to deal with such sensitive issues as vulnerable children, inclusive education, and child protection.
- f)Due to the negative labeling of street children, there is poor awareness amongst communities of the need to support the reintegration and education of these children.
What Can Be Done.
Madam Speaker, there is need for co-ordination of responses to street children’s rights. There is need to conduct a best practice survey to study responses to street children and to share this with all stakeholders. A process could be initiated through the department of Social Services for a review of existing legislation on children and how these could be strengthened. There is need for research to be conducted to fill the information gap on the effects of street environments on child development.
The Government of Zimbabwe needs to seriously consider re-deploying its welfare departments into development departments. This would mean that the departments of Child Welfare and Social Welfare would focus more on child and social development. The fact that it is much more expensive to ‘cure’ than to ‘prevent’ cannot be overstated. Many of the organisations working in the area of street children have been in existence for a couple of years. In the long term, it could be beneficial for these NGOs to do a need assessment in order to come up with programmes suitable in addressing the problem. Community mobilization should be a priority in ensuring duty-bearers are ‘keeping their promise’ to children of Zimbabwe, including street children.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to also speak on some of the positive work being done by Government in trying to address the plight of street children. I understand in 2020, there were 305 children and persons working in the streets from major cities who were removed and reunited with their families or were placed under Chambuta Children’s home. There are also 3 286 children in Residential Children Care Institution, that are being supported by Government. In addition, Government has plans to assist over 1.5 million children in 2021 under the Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM). All these initiatives are intended to protect our children from the harsh economic and social problems that I outlined earlier in on in my presentation. With these few words, I thank you.
HON. BRIG. (RTD) GEN. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to this very important debate on vagrancy and homelessness. This issue Madam Speaker had been in existence since industrialisation or urbanisation in the world. Many countries have grappled with this problem and not many countries have successfully addressed or solved the problem of street children or vagrancy mainly because first and foremost, many countries or many societies see homelessness as self inflicted or a crime. Instead of having empathy they tend to criminalise it.
In this country before independence, this country had a law called The Vagrancy Act, it was not repealed but it was one of those laws that were just ignored or not enforced. This law said a vagrant is a person of no fixed abode and a person who wanders from place to place without cause. It criminalised these kinds of persons and it also criminalised the people who were giving them help, assistance or protectiveness. So, it became a kind of a crime to be poor, a crime to be homeless, a crime to be a destitute, a crime without employment and a crime to be without shelter. We grew up in that kind of environment and society has always been grappling to come out of the challenges.
There have been several attempts through non-governmental organisations and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to arrest this problem, try to mop up children from the streets to children’s homes or foster homes, several attempts have been made like the previous speaker has mentioned that thousands of children have been resettled through this method. However, the problem does not seem to be ending, it is like pouring water into a sinking hole. The more we try to move them from the streets, the more we seem to be encouraging more children to get back there. There are so many ills that cause these things. I will not belabour listing them all here but issues of unemployment, displacement, child abuse, sexual abuse, domestic violence, gender based violence all come to the fore in exacerbating the problems of particularly women and children in the streets.
Unfortunately, this cycle of destitution, this cycle of homelessness and people living in the streets does not seem to end because the more they are removed, the more they come back. Society has not managed to address these issues squarely not just in Zimbabwe but worldwide. Inspite of good intentions, the streets of Harare, Bulawayo and all urban centres are still littered with people who have no fixed aboard, people who live under bridges. Society is unable to solve that problem.
Social welfare, much as they try but they are not resourced sufficiently or their institutions are not adequately resourced to deal with this problem. It is an issue that mankind or human kind has to address fully to solve. It can only get worse because it perpetuates, unless it is fully addressed.
The statistics may not be available as to whether the numbers are increasing or not but as we see in our street, we have children that are supposed to be doing ECD level. They are begging in the streets maybe with their mothers and also fathers and then you say to yourself what kind of citizens are we producing, what kind of people are these going to be?
We unfortunately do not have soup kitchens and meals on wheels or free accommodation like they have in other countries and one wonders where these children go when it is raining, cold or for the night if there is really no accommodation for them?
It is about time that the society and the nation looks at this problem squarely in the face and say what needs to be done so that we show a human face as a country. Let us lead by example. Zimbabweans are known to be peace loving. Let us integrate these people back to society. Let us find ways of resettling them. The children must go back to school, those that need mental care, those that need to be cured from drug addiction need to be treated and sent to relevant centres so that they become useful citizens of this country and not to be wondering in the streets for the rest of their lives.
The institutions must be strengthened, particularly the social welfare at all levels and institutions should start with individual homes. Every family should understand that it is their responsibility to take care of their own. These children or these persons come from certain homes. It can not only be a Government problem or social welfare alone, people must understand that the responsibility starts with me and you. Wherever you are, you have got the responsibility. Probably, you have got a relative in the streets; you just turn a blind eye. People must be connscientised from a young age to understand that it could happen to anybody.
To some people it occurs as a result of poor health. Maybe you come back from hospital, you find that the family is gone or the family has been wiped out by national calamities like disasters or COVID-19, this can visit anybody but society must learn how to overcome those problems once it visits your children.
We are standing here today maybe as Parliamentarians; we never know when AIDS or COVID-19 is going to strike. Maybe it is going to strike everybody in the family and just leave the little ones. These little ones might end up in the streets. What will society do? So, let us not imagine that this problem will always remain somewhere. It might come to visit your own family; it might visit your future generations.
Therefore, the society must be conscientised to look after such people. It must prepare sufficient resettlement areas not to criminalise as was the case with Rhodesians. Of course, to them it was easy because it was criminalising blacks. It was really meant as a discriminatory measure to get blacks off white areas but for us it is our own, it could be our children.
Let us show as Zimbabweans that we can do something different. Let us show that we can integrate these people. Let us clean our streets, send children to school those who need to go to school, and send those who need health attention to hospitals. Let us send adults to resettlement places for they will learn skills that will make them break out of this destitution cycle. With those few words, I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 12th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON. MPARIWA the House adjourned at Twenty Three Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 6th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. MASANGO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I rise on a point of Privilege. On the 29th of April, 2021, the Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage Minister, Hon. Kazembe Kazembe visited Makombe Passport Office where he experienced corruption at its highest level when he was asked to pay a bribe of US$30 so that he could jump the queue. This was a really welcome impromptu visit and it led to the arrest of the perpetrator.
As the Minister is constantly saying on ZTV these days, corruption involves two or more people. If he had paid the US$30 without any arrest taking place, then the corrupt individual would have gone scot-free. Hon. Speaker Ma’am, to curb corruption as Zimbabweans, we have to really work collectively. My prayer is for all Hon. Members to shun and report corruption and if possible, take a leaf from what Hon. Minister Kazembe did, going out on impromptu visits to unmask corrupt activities. Our President, His Excellency, Hon. Mnangagwa is always discouraging corrupt activities. So, let us heed this call because corruption is destroying our country. I give thanks to the Hon. Minister Kazembe Kazembe for showing us another way of unmasking corruption. I thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, thank you very much and good afternoon to you. I rise on a point of Privilege. There are a number of rulings which the Hon. Speaker in the Chair and yourself made which are not followed through. First of all, the Speaker had ruled that Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga’s Committee must meet the Trust schools to look at the school fees which are hiked all the time. He gave a deadline of two weeks, and the two weeks have gone and that has not happened.
You also made a ruling on Hon. Chombo coming with a position on how, in terms of devolution funds and Section 264 of the Constitution, that the Provincial Councils were being paid sitting allowances when they were not sitting and why others who are part of the Provincial Councils like Hon. Members of Parliament were not being paid that. That has not come to this House again.
Lastly, the other issue was the ruling by the Speaker, may be it happened while I was away, for the Minister of Finance to give a breakdown of the surplus that he said they had gotten in the last Budget presentation, how it was spent. That has not come through again. It really does not auger well with some of the situations in the country that people are faced with from a welfare point of view and livelihoods.
The aspect of fees going up in Trust schools is a bit too much and this continues unabated. We have a Constitution which everybody should follow. The Trust schools are in Zimbabwe, they must follow the laws of Zimbabwe in terms of the Education Act and all that. If it has to be amended, then it is now up to the Ministry to be able to do that but most parents are complaining. If they have to speak to these meetings themselves, they are victimised and these are the savings that they have which they are now channeling towards unjustified increments in school fees.
Madam Speaker, my appeal is that, when are we going to get those matters done? As Parliament, we must ensure that we are seen to be producing reports when the Chair says a report must be out. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I am going to do a follow up on all your concerns and I promise to bring the answers on Tuesday next week. Thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to celebrate Mothers Day which is going to fall on Sunday, 9th May. I would like to celebrate the work all women do to support mankind. I would also like to hail all women and to encourage them to fulfill their role as mothers. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 8 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 9 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILD CARE ON THE DEVELOPMENT AND PROMOTION OF TRADITIONAL AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINES IN ZIMBABWE
HON. CHINHAMO-MASANGO: Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care on the Development and Promotion of Traditional and Complementary Medicines in Zimbabwe.
HON. TOFFA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. Sorry if I am mistaken but I thought the Committee Chairperson is Hon. Dr. Labode. Why is she not here to give the report? What is the point of the Chairperson of the Committee not being here to discharge their duties? What is so important that she is doing that she cannot be here? We cannot have this happening all the time, people wanting to be chairpersons only to be just given cars which are better than Members of Parliament yet when it comes to them doing their duty they are not here. I would like to know why she is not here.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. Hon. Ruth Labode is away on other parliamentary duties. So it is allowed for her to delegate another Member of the Committee to present the reports for the Committee here in the National Assembly.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker, I now know. I just wanted to know. Your answer is clear enough. May this be a warning to all Chairpersons; you must be like Hon. Misihairabwi who presents reports herself.
HON CHINHAMO MASANGO: Thank you Hon. Speaker.
Introduction
2.1 Traditional medicines play a critical role in the health of many in Zimbabwe. As such, it is imperative to ensure that it is recognised through the creation of an enabling environment that promotes its development. COVID-19 pandemic has taught Zimbabwe to look inward and be self-reliant, not only in terms of local production of conventional medicines and drugs, but to consider development and promotion of traditional and complementary medicines as the generality of citizens made them medicines of choice during the lockdown period. Thus, the Committee resolved to enquire into the development and promotion of traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe
1.0 Objectives
The objectives of the enquiry were:
2.1 To assess the extent to which the traditional and complementary medicines are being used in the management of COVID-19 virus and other diseases and ailments in Zimbabwe;
2.2 To ascertain the research that is being done to add value to the traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe;
2.3 To appreciate the constraints and challenges in the development of traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe;
2.4 To appreciate the efforts that the Ministry of Health and Child Care has made to develop a useful working relationship between the conventional and traditional medical practitioners; and
3 To recommend possible solutions for development of traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe.
3.0 Methodology
The Committee held oral evidence meeting with the following witnesses:
- Acting Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Health and Child Care, Dr. Fungai Mudyiradima on 25th January 2021;
- Acting Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Health and Child Care, Dr. Onias Ndoro on 9th March 2021;
iii. Acting Managing Director for the Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe (MCAZ), Mr. William Wekwete on 9th March 2021;
- Acting Chairperson of the University of Zimbabwe-Department of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Professor Chagonda on 9th March 2021;
- The Registrar of the Traditional Medical Practitioners Council (TMPC), Ms. Joice Guhwa on 9th March 2021; and
- The President of the Zimbabwe National Traditional Healers Association (ZINATHA), Mr. George Kandiero on 9th March 2021.
4.0 COMMITTEE FINDINGS
4.1 Institutional Arrangements for Traditional and Complementary Medicines: Legal Framework
4.1.1 During the oral evidence meeting held on 9th March 2021, Dr. Ndoro presented the following legal frameworks and institutional arrangements that govern the practice of traditional medical practitioners and those in the complementary medicines filed:
- Traditional Medical Practitioners Act [Chapter 27:14];
- Health Professions Act [Chapter 27:19]—Part IV—Natural Therapist Council;
- Medicines and Allied Substances Control Act [Chapter 15:03];
- Research Act of 1959 and Government Notice of 1974;
- Public Health Act;
- Research Council of Zimbabwe; and
- Medical Research Council of Zimbabwe that provides independent ethical oversight.
4.2 Traditional and Complementary Medicines Practice and Products
4.2.1 Traditional and Complementary Products and Services comprises of three (3) pillars namely: Service Providers, Practitioners’ Clinics and Manufacturers.
4.2.3 There are two arms of Practitioners:-Traditional Health Practitioners regulated by Medical Practitioners Council (TMPC)-informally trained through apprenticeship and National Therapist Council regulated by Health Professions Act (HPA)-formal training
4.2.4 The Traditional Medicines Act allows the Traditional Health Practitioners to prescribe medicines but when it comes to the general use in the absence of the traditional health practitioner, the herbal medicines are required to be registered and regulated by the MCAZ.
4.2.5 Complementary medicines are imported outside of Zimbabwe and must be fully registered through MCAZ.
4.2.6 TMPC is mainly in private setting and currently does not have hospital setting while Natural Therapist Council (NTC) is also mainly in private setting but has recently opened a clinic and has no hospital. Both practices do not have medical aid cover.
4.2.7 TMPC involves traditional healing, herbalism and faith healing while NTC involves acupuncture, ayurvedic medicine, chiropractic, herbal medicines, traditional Chinese medicines and so on.
4.3 The extent to which the traditional and complementary medicines are being used in the management of COVID-19 virus and other diseases and ailments in Zimbabwe;
4.3.1 According to Dr. Ndoro, there is no scientific study in terms of the statistics on usage but it is generally believed that home remedies and traditional medicines are highly used by citizens.
4.3.2 Ms. Guhwa, the Registrar of the Traditional Medical Practice Council (TMPC) concurred with what Dr. Ndoro had submitted as she stated that traditional medical practice is based on individual knowledge which is not trained through formal institutions. Consequently, it becomes difficult to capture how the practitioners are treating patients and statistics on what the extent of usage is. However, she added that there has been strong indication via social media platforms that traditional medicines were used in Zimbabwe to combat COVID-19 symptoms.
4.3.3 Mr. Kandiero, the President of ZINATHA informed the Committee that Traditional Medical Practitioners (TMPs) developed herbs that boost immune system and solve other respiratory complications related to COVID-19 virus. He added that zumbani and kunatira were common traditional methods widely used in Zimbabwe to combat COVID-19 virus symptoms.
4.3.4 Mr. Kandiero stated that as a matter of policy, TMPs refer COVID-19 suspected cases to the nearest health facility testing centre, thereafter if the cases tested positive, the TMPs could then assist using herbs.
4.3.5 He also informed the Committee that before the outbreak of COVID-19 virus, traditional and complementary medicines were being widely used in rural areas to treat various ailments such as diabetes, high blood pressure, cancers among others where conventional medical services are sometimes inaccessible or not affordable. He stated that the traditional medicines are preferred because they are cheap, believed to have less side effects and are easily accessible.
4.3.6 Ms. Guhwa added that limited accessibility to modern medicines contributed to the high demand of traditional medicines during the COVID-19 lockdown period due to restrictions on movement.
4.4 Efforts that the MoHCC and MCAZ are making in the Development and Promotion of Traditional and Complementary Medicines in Zimbabwe
4.4.1 In his oral submission on 25th January 2021, Dr. Mudyiradima indicated that the MoHCC had not banned the use of some medicines which were perceived to be effective in addressing some COVID-19 symptoms. He stated that the MoHCC was willing to collaborate with relevant stakeholders to conduct research and assessment on some proposed conventional, traditional and complementary medicines to ascertain their efficacy. This he said, would be conducted under controlled environment where danger is carefully kept and harnessed in order to inform policy direction before the public can use the medicines.
4.4.2 During the oral evidence meeting held on 9th March 2021, Dr. Ndoro informed the Committee that the MoHCC had developed a draft monograph for lippie javanica (Zumbani) which Mr. Wekwete, confirmed that the MCAZ had approved in managing COVID-19 virus symptoms.
4.4. 3 Dr. Ndoro informed the Committee that clinical trials of Kembo Herbal Medicines believed to ameliorate COVID-19 symptoms were also conducted as well as an investigation of ionised water nebulisation to alleviate respiratory symptoms and hypixia in presumed and confirmed COVID-19 patients. Results of these trials were yet to be ascertained.
4.4.4 He also informed the Committee that MoHCC was in the process of developing a National Herbal Pharmacopoeia and Formularies to set out standards for herbal medicines as well as inclusion of traditional medicines into the essential drug list.
4.4.5 He further informed the Committee that the Government of Zimbabwe had stablised the Traditional and Complementary Medicines Institute at Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals in collaboration with the Chinese Government.
4.4.6 Regarding the process of registering medicines in Zimbabwe, Mr. Wekwete told the Committee that applicants should submit applications with a payment of a fee a of US200 or ZWL equivalent to the Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe (MCAZ). Thereafter, MCAZ Secretariat receives, receipts and evaluates and finally the Complementary Medicines Committee approves the product. At the time of this enquiry, the MCAZ had registered 234 traditional and complementary medicines and only two (2) (less than 1%) were local herbs and these are Mukwa and Moringa Powder.
4.4.7 On infrastructure development for education and training and delivery of health services, Dr. Ndoro informed the Committee that the MoHCC intends to establish Public Health Institutions for Traditional Medicines in Zimbabwe. He added that to date, the MoHCC has established a Traditional Medicines Research Department at the National Institute of Health Research; developed curriculum for the training of the Traditional and Complementary Medical Practitioners and Integrated the Traditional and Complementary Medicines into the curriculum of Health Science Students at the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences.
4.5 Research and Development for Promoting Evidence Based Use of Traditional and Complementary Medicines in Zimbabwe
4.5.1 According to Professor Chagonda, the University of Zimbabwe (UZ)-Department of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences started researching into indigenous plants, for example zumbani or manhuwenhuwe (aromatic plants) around the late 80s in Zimbabwe with funding from IDRC (Canada). The plants had high quality of oil for essential medicines but had low volume. Research for essential medicines and publications for the research are available but there was no funding to make products out of the aromatic plants.
4.5.2 Professor Chagonda informed the Committee that the University does not have a dedicated laboratory to enable continuation of research into indigenous plants’ medicinal properties. This is despite the fact that it has done a lot of research work on traditional medicine such as zumbani whose information is already at the UZ Library.
4.5.4 Mr. Kandiero also added that the Traditional Medical Practitioners conducted research on Gundamiti, a natural antiretroviral herb in the fight against HIV during the term of Dr. Timothy Stamps as the Minister of Health and Child Welfare. Sadly, Dr. Stamps passed on and efforts to continue with further research were futile as there was no more funding for the work.
4.5.5 Dr. Ndoro informed the Committee that the MoHCC had developed guidelines for clinical study of the traditional medicines and created a register to record COVID-19 medical claims made by the Traditional Medical Practitioners. He also informed the Committee that at the height of COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, stakeholders submitted proposals for funding of research on COVID-19 medicines to the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, but they were not funded.
4.6 Status of the Relationship between the Conventional Medical Practitioners (CMPs) and Traditional Medical Practitioners (TMPs)
4.6.1 Although the Ministry of Health and Child Care has made efforts to put in place legal frameworks that enable the Traditional Medical Practitioners to practice freely, it was evident that a lot still needs to be done to demystify the practice. According to Ms. Guhwa, the working relationship between the Conventional Medical Practitioners (CMPs) and the Traditional Medical Practitioners (TMPs) is characterised with friction due to lack of appreciation of the strength of each practice. She highlighted the following as some of the causes of the friction:
- a)Stereotyping and use of derogatory language when referring to Traditional Medical Practitioners (TMPs), for example the term “witchdoctors, which is associated with evil. The enactment of the Witchcraft Suppression Act during colonialism limited the development of the practice and this led to the undermining and stigmatisation of the use of traditional health care and systems;
- b)Most of the MCAZ staff operate as Conventional Medical Practitioners and have bias towards the conventional health care system or medicines. For purposes of development, this would not yield significant progress; and
- c)Less collaboration between the TMPs and the Medical School at the University of Zimbabwe in conducting research on the traditional medicines.
4.6.2 Mr. Kandiero also added that the referral system is one way, meaning to say that it is the TMPs who always openly refer patients for further management to the CMPs and not the other way round. He however, stated that those who do are few and do so in secrecy and this is very disheartening as it does not bring about the desired positive development and promotion of the traditional medical practice in Zimbabwe.
4.7 Constraints and Challenges:-
- a)Lack of funding for research on the efficacy, safety and adequacy of the existing and new indigenous and complementary medicines;
- b)Unavailability of land that is earmarked for the cultivation of herbs;
- c)No mainstreaming of the traditional medical practice in education curriculum;
- d)Negative attitudes towards the traditional medical practice from the media, churches, Government of Zimbabwe and society at large;
- e)Most of the TMPs are illiterate and this becomes a barrier as they are looked down upon by the CMPs;
- f)Lack of standardisation of the traditional practice and products;
- g)Lack of organised information from the TMPs when applying to register their medicines at the MCAZ;
- h)Limited understanding of the standards and guidelines for the registration of medicines at the MCAZ;
- i)Traditional Medical Practitioners are limited to functioning without the use of modern basic gadgets like BP machine, thermometer, pulse readers among others;
- j)Lack of political will to promote the development of the traditional medical practice in Zimbabwe.
5.0 Observations by the Committee
The Committee noted that:
5.1 The traditional and complementary medical practice in Zimbabwe is grossly underfunded.
5.2 No land is dedicated for the growing of herbs for medicinal use in Zimbabwe.
5.3 The traditional medical practice is often misunderstood due to lack of appropriate information to the generality of Zimbabweans as well as the colonial lenses that are used when looking at this practice.
5.4 Players in this sector are doing a lot of work on traditional medicines, however the efforts are uncoordinated and they lack coherence to bring about the much needed development on this practice.
5.5 Uncordial work relations between the TMPs and CMPs cripples the development and promotion of the traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe.
5.6 Lack of access to laboratories and ability to read laboratory results, medical insurance as well as non-use of modern medical instruments such as BP machines limit the effectiveness of the traditional medical practice.
5.7 Non-disclosure of medicinal properties impedes the development of the traditional medical practice in Zimbabwe.
5.8 Political will is lacking in the development and promotion of traditional and complementary medicines as evidenced by the gross underfunding of this sector.
6.0 Recommendations
6.1 The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should allocate funding to the traditional and complementary medicines in the 2022 National Budget to enable more research and development in this field.
6.2 The Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement should earmark land for the cultivation of herbs for medicinal use in Zimbabwe by December 2021.
6.3 The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education and the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development should consider inclusion of the traditional medicines into schools, colleges and universities curriculum to demystify the practice by December 2021.
6.4 The Ministry of Health and Child Care should cause collaboration of all relevant players in the sector to bring about coherence in the development of traditional medicines in Zimbabwe by December 2021.
6.5 Cordial work relations between the TPMs and CMPs are essential ingredients in boosting the development and promotion of the traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe. Therefore, the Ministry of Health and Child Care should always strive to put in place strategies that encourage good working relations between the two practices.
6.6 The Ministry of Health and Child Care should ensure that TMPs have access to laboratories, are trained to read results, have medical insurance and are able to use the modern medical instruments such as BP machines as their counterparts in the conventional medical field by August 2022.
6.7 The Ministry of Health and Child Care should start training and educating the TMPs to move from individualism (non-disclosure) to nationalisation and protection of property rights if Zimbabwe is to bring about total development in the traditional and complementary medicines sector within the first quarter of 2022.
6.8 Political will is key to any development, hence the Ministers responsible for the above-mentioned ministries should immediately take keen interest in ensuring that the recommendations that have been directed to their respective ministries are actioned within the stipulated timeframes.
7.0 CONCLUSION
7.1 Although there are no statistics to prove the extent of the use of the traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe to address various diseases and ailments, it is evident that the rural population uses them as most modern health facilities and services are inaccessible and unaffordable. It is also evident that even the urban population resorted to the use of the traditional and complementary medicines as movement was restricted during the COVID-19 pandemic induced lockdown. In spite of this, little attention is given to the development and promotion of traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe. It is therefore imperative now more than ever, to invest in the development and promotion of the traditional and complementary medicines in Zimbabwe, lest we become no more than a market of other nations traditional medicines. Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. As I second the report from our Committee on Health and Child Care, I want to say this report is a very important report as it affects the majority of our people in the nation of Zimbabwe, particularly because traditional medicine or remedies are mostly associated with people from rural areas and low incomes earners, not that the middle income earners and the rich do not use them but because it is easier for them to access and they are more familiar with them.
As a Committee, we listened to the oral hearings and submission brought to us by the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Department of Traditional Medicines. We were very interested because of the COVID-19 era that we were in. Most of our attention was drawn to umsuzwani otherwise known as muzumbani. Most of the people were using this traditional herb and there was a lot of debate in the community about umsuzwani. I would like to draw focus to a platform on WhatsApp which we conduct as amakhosikazi from Bulawayo. I was an invited guest on that platform and we had Dr. Michael Bhebhe who was a Biochemist. He pleasantly surprised me because as presented at Parliament by the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Traditional Medicines Department, I was very skeptical about the fact that tests were being done in the country with regards to these products. In our discussion, there were traditional medicines that came up such as umsuzwani/umzumbani, umafavuke/Makoni Tea and uququza. These plants are generally known as food used by poor people and because they are so familiar with them. Unfortunately as per our report, there was not enough information given to the general public.
The debate on social media and communities was very negative but it was pleasing to hear and also for the women that were on the makhosikazi platform, to hear that some research has actually been done in Zimbabwe. From what Dr. Bhebhe said, there was very good anti-oxidant in umsuzwani which helps in treating diseases like tuberculosis, flue and asthma. These are some of the things that they were used for.
Madam Speaker, if you look at the fact that garlic, ginger, turmeric, lemon and cayenne paper is widely used around the world. it is because those countries where these herbs come from have invested in research and testing of those herbs. So as per our report Madam Speaker, I think it is important for our country to also invest in such. When Dr. Bhebhe was presenting to us, he said they did not manage to do extractions from umsuzwani because of the way COVID-19 came into play. It was very sudden, there was lockdown and people had to stay in their areas of residence. So they did not manage to actually do an extraction so that they could test its effectiveness against COVID-19.
Madam Speaker, he also said that the anti-oxidant that was found in umsuzwani was able to mop up free radicals that accumulate in the body and cause infections. So I am referring to this platform because it is of great importance and it also gives confidence to the people that what they are using is not all wrong. He went further to say that it does not mean to say that all the natural medicines are good or are not toxic. That is where the importance of the Ministry of Health and Child Care or Government comes in through investment, research and testing of traditional medicine.
He also went further to say that one thing that was really lacking was funding as was in the report. He also said that what was needed was a very big infectious laboratory; I think he was very specific about that, that would house all clinical laboratories and scientists who must do their research in one place. I think what we need is to make sure that in the next Budget,we are going to have the Minister of Finance taking traditional medicine very seriously and invest in research. There seems to be an issue about the name calling as alluded to in the report about witchdoctors. If I remember correctly, in one of the oral hearings, it was argued that you cannot just call a traditional practitioner a doctor which is a word that will make people more comfortable. I think we need to find a way where we can get traditional practitioners more palatable or more acceptable in our communities and not be seen as something that when you want to visit them you go in private.
Madam Speaker, a lot of examples were given by different women from Bulawayo that were contributing to these traditional practices and medicines. We also had the traditional medicines department, which is attached to the Ministry of Health. They are actually not part of the Ministry of Health. Somehow, I think as a country we need to find a way that we can incorporate and have a good working relationship, where we can get referrals from both ends. If you look Madam Speaker, we have a lot of imported traditional medicines from China, such as Tsunami; we have medicines from countries such as Nigeria – the name has just left my mind, I thought I had written it down but we are using other people’s traditional medicines because they have worked on them. We need to work on our traditional medicines and promote them. Having said that, I would like to thank you Madam Speaker Maam.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. This is a topic that is deep. This is a topic I have interest in. Traditional Medicines are so downplayed in this country when they are so important for us. If you look at statistics in Zimbabwe, traditional medicines are used by almost two thirds of the population. Some of us use traditional medicines behind closed doors. Some people use traditional medicines openly but statistics say two thirds of the population use traditional medicines. So what it means is that two thirds of Parliamentarians also use traditional medicines.
The problem that we are facing in Zimbabwe is when people grow up and they think they have a little bit of money, then they start looking at traditional medicines as being inferior to European or Western medicines. What they are not aware of is that most of the so called Western medicines that they take, the active ingredients come from our own traditional medicines. So the problem that we are facing in Zimbabwe is we are not doing much in terms of research. We cannot blame Government on this challenge that we are facing that is downplaying traditional medicines. Government has put in policies. Government has put the Traditional Healers and Traditional Medicines Act in place but it is how to operationalise these Acts. How to implement them, there are people in offices that feel traditional medicines is inferior. I am of the opposite view, I believe in traditional medicines. I used traditional medicines as I grew up and I still use traditional medicines now.
There is need Madam Speaker Ma’am, for traditional medicines to be effective - it is 40 years after independence, by now we should be having a trolley run of our own traditional medicines. Here we are, an independent Zimbabwe, we have indigenous leaders who are aware of the importance and effectiveness of traditional medicines. What we should have done in the 40 years is to take all the traditional medicines that are known, take them into laboratories, test the active ingredients, find out what works because these medicines worked. There is no traditional medicine that is said to alleviate stomach ache that does not alleviate a stomach ache. So they do have active ingredients.
What we should have done as scientists was to take all these drugs of traditional healers, take them to laboratories, test them, find out what active ingredients are there and thereafter we dosage them. We find the correct dose and we package them. Then, most important, we should also patent these medicines because what happens is these traditional medicines that have been tested and are being used already have dosages but people forgot to patent them. So what happens is a clever Western Scientist comes to Zimbabwe, he realises that this drug is used for anxiety and it is used in Zimbabwe. He takes the drugs and goes with it and tests it in the laboratory and they patent it. In the end, our own traditional medicines - we cannot claim, because it is patented by somebody who does not even know where we got the roots of that traditional medicine from.
When we talk of traditional medicines, I also wish for us to concentrate on trial because there is need for trials when we are testing these medicines. We should avail hospital wards. We should have a ward where we have all the patients that we are referring to say no, Western medicines have not worked on this one, let us take this patient to this ward where there is a n’anga who work there. I will be waiting and I take my traditional medicine, test them in a controlled manner. What happens is – let me stress this point, you know the Western medicines that we take, some of these medicines do not work for African people because the trials were just done on Caucasians. So, for your own information, there is medicine that works for Caucasian, white people and does not work for Black people. This is why I am saying trials are very important in our own surroundings, in our own temperatures, our own black skin, our own high temperatures of 31degrees Celsius. You test these medicines and find how effective they are. That way, we will come up with traditional medicines that are tested for effective and then we will package them and sell them in pharmacies.
It is sad Madam Speaker, right now, go to Parirenyatwa Hospital, you will find a ward that we have opened that is dedicated for the Chinese traditional medicines – how sad. I am not saying it is bad but we should have started by a ward that has clinical trials for African traditional medicines which is medicines that we grew up taking.
Madam Speaker, I would pause this question to male Parliamentarians in this august House, how many of them have not taken mushonga we musana? Most of them take this mushonga wemusana if you were not aware Madam Speaker. However, I just want to warn them on the dosages, they should be very careful otherwise they will end up with problems but we take them, I am also one of them. I have tested to see how mushonga wemusana works and it works. These are aphrodisiacs.
Coming closer to the pandemic, like our report has mentioned, what led this Committee to then look at what the Government was doing towards the traditional medicines was the use of Zumbani recently in alleviation of COVID-19 symptoms. Zumbani works. We have used it before for fever. So, it actually has some active ingredients that lower temperature. They help for fever.
We should therefore, not discard these medicines in favour of paracetamol and all the western medicines because they are expensive, not accessible but these herbs we have them in abundance, we have them in our gardens and bushes. We are an educated nation but we are not using our education in order to help our country and also the President’s Vision 2030. I think there should be more emphasis, we should put more funding to traditional medicines.
The other problem that we face is the funding problem. It came out clearly in our report. There is very little funding that goes to research on traditional medicines. Coupled with that, there is also mistrust from the so called officials in the Ministry. They do not trust traditional medicines yet they use them in the night.
The other problem that we realised is the problem that there is no coordination in the Ministry of Health. There is a department for traditional medicine but it does not coordinate with other departments, it does not coordinate with the pharmaceutical departments, the medical department and plenty of other departments in the Ministry of Health and Child Care. By so doing, you find that nothing is achieved. Our research in the use of traditional medicines then lags behind.
Madam Speaker, I want to enlighten you on the fact that at the moment in Europe, the most sought after drug or nutritional food is the Baobab Tree. We have the Baobab Tree in Zimbabwe but we are not aware. So, for your own information now, if any one wants to make money, they should harness the Baobab Tree. The Baobab Tree from the roots, seeds, and bud up to the trunk there is nothing that is not of use in that tree. All the parts of the Baobab are worth using for nutritional purposes. There is plenty of vitamin C, potassium and carbohydrates. So the western world have realised it, they are actually calling it a ‘tree of life’. We have a tree of life within our midst that we are not aware of.
The Baobab Tree is not only nutritious, we have always been using it traditionally as a medicine. We have used it for treating malaria, tuberculosis, fever and dysentery. So, where is our problem? We are not doing much research in order to reap the benefits of natural resources. There are much indigenous knowledge systems that we have amongst our elders in the village. The only problem that we face as blacks is that some of the things are not documented. Ndiweni today knows whatever he knows but we do not write it down, so these are some of the pitfalls.
If you have an uncle or grandfather who knows a couple of traditional medicines, they do not write them down. Maybe they are trying to be secretive so that no one knows. However, they are not aware that by documenting them down, their children and grand children will always pass on that information so much that the knowledge is not lost, it is kept within the family settings.
The other plant that I want to look at which was very popular in the 2000, if you remember the African potato, tsenza, we call them umbondiwe in Ndebele. African potato is a very effective traditional medicine. It is very good for cancers and that has been proven but we do not know at what doses. It is very good for prostate cancer. It has got this drug called Beta-sitosterol which is very good at defeating cancers. It works for bladder infections, lung disease, arthritis. Some of the things it works for, we do not even know because we have not subjected it to laboratory testing to find how effective it is.
The interesting thing about our medicines is that there are also myths around them. I want to give you a typical myth about traditional medicines. At one stage I was in my own small pharmacy and Mambo Dendera walked in. Interestingly, we had funny in the pharmacy. I said to my front counter let me serve the chief myself. So, I talked to the chief and he wanted paracetamol which I gave him but whispered to him saying dhonzai upon handing him. So, this is one of the myths in African traditional medicines. You do not just take, you pull a little bit. The chief looked at me and I told him do not thank me. When he was mystified in that way, I told him musazocheuka Mambo, ndokuti ushande. The traditional chief enjoyed the exchange. So, those are some of the myths that are associated with our medicine that makes it unique and interesting.
With those few words, I feel we are doing a disservice to our selves by not funding research and development into our own traditional medicine. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: I want to add my voice to the motion that has been moved by Hon. Masango and seconded by Hon. Toffa on the importance of traditional and complimentary medicines.
Madam Speaker Maam, it is important to mention that traditional and complimentary medicines have been very important and were important since time immemorial. They were important in the sense that they were widely used in pre-colonial Zimbabwe, post colonial Zimbabwe and they are still very important and significant especially in rural areas.
Traditional and complimentary medicines are important in curing diseases such as cancer; hypertension, back aches, diarrhoea and traditional doctors are known for kuuchika phenomenon. We have seen couple who had spent more than 15 years failing to have a child, visiting those special hospitals but when they visit those traditional doctors…
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! Note that I just want us to clarify; do we have a traditional doctor or a herbalist? If I ask what a traditional doctor is - I know Hon. Moyo is an academic, maybe it will help but I would like to be lectured to today and just a herbalist will be a better word than a traditional doctor. If probably you could use the word herbalist Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I am sure it is a matter of semantics – [HON. T. MLISWA: Traditional doctor, what is a traditional doctor?] – It depends from where you are coming from. I am sure that is in order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. PETER MOYO: I think because we are talking of traditional medicine, one can be regarded as a traditional doctor or herbalist. What is derogatory is a witch doctor, it becomes stigma. I think we can use herbalist to appease Hon. Mliswa. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I was saying that traditional and complementary medicines were used widely and are still being used today. They have several advantages, they are cheap, readily available and can easily be found in the local habitat in the local communities and because of that, as legislators we need to advocate for the wide use of those traditional medicines. It is also important and prudent to mention that the word ‘witch doctor’ - we should not stereotype or stigmatise traditional and complementary medicines through the use of witch doctors, which is derogatory and that should be discouraged.
I want to talk about Education 5.0 which advocates for Heritage Studies. Education 5.0 has witnessed a mushrooming of innovation hubs in all universities. These are important in the sense that it is going to contribute to collaborative research between conventional practitioners and traditional complementary practitioners. As legislators, we need to advocate for this collaborative research whereby traditional or herbalistS and those conventional doctorS are going to meet in the innovation hubs and look at the medicines that they use and come up with solutions to ailments that people are experiencing.
We also need to talk about curriculum development and implementation. In China, children as early as ECD, learn about traditional Chinese medicines. Why can we not do it in Zimbabwe whereby students in ECD learn about traditional and complementary medicineS? That will make them to appreciate our heritage. The local medicines are very important and more important than what we import because what we import cause side-effects. The herbs that we use do not have side-effects.
In the late 90s, there was a very important innovation at the University of Zimbabwe which was called the ‘Gundamiti Innovation.’ Dr. Mashava came up with an innovation from the herbs to treat HIV/AIDS. I remember quite a number of patients used to visit the Department of Science and Mathematics at the University of Zimbabwe for reversing those HIV infections. Unfortunately, I do not know what happened and why the Ministry of Health did not pursue that phenomenon. If that had been domesticated clinically, by now I am sure we should have made some strides. We should not allow the disappearance of what we call zumbani. It is very important because those people who used zumbani, who used to steam up, none contracted COVID-19. These are the traditional medicines which are very important.
Finally on tools of trade, as I said earlier on collaborative research between conventional doctors and herbalists will lead to development of those things like thermometers. The herbalists also need to use these thermometers, BP machines; they need to have gloves as they practice their trade. In a nutshell, I would say traditional and complementary medicines are very important.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me join my colleagues in thanking Hon. Masango and Hon. Toffa for bringing this very important motion to the House. I particularly am quite excited because I think this shows a mindset shift in us as legislators but also as Zimbabwe. I think for a long time we have been fed with this mantra that anything that is African is by its very nature bad. This is why we have destroyed the things that have gotten us to get better and embed things that are coming from outside that have not necessarily been very good for us.
COVID-19 is a very good example. No one has said why when everybody had predicted that with COVID-19, we would be finding dead bodies in the streets in Africa. That is what the Western media had fed us with, that we were going to die like flies. We have realised that in fact, it is in the West that people have died more than the people in Africa. So there must be something that is African that we were able to do well. Our only problem is that we never research to find out. Somebody should have really worked on trying to find out what it is that protected us as Africa even with minimum health facilities.
Let us just look at what is happening in India right now. India is seen as the global hospital, it is the pharmaceutical centre but it has statistics of close to about 20 million COVID-19 infections as we speak right now. The United States has equally bad numbers but they have the infrastructure, medicines, doctors and nurses. So something must have happened that got us protected from COVID-19. Unfortunately, all we can do is to suspect – perhaps it was zumbani, maybe we were steaming ourselves or it was something else because no one bothered to do some research. I think that is the folly of Africa, that we will never be able to get the information that we need.
I just want to give you two examples Madam Speaker. When I was growing up, I used to have serious period pain such that I would not be able to go to school for three to four days; dysmenorrheal is what they call it. If you went to a doctor, the first thing that they would tell you even when you were aged 14, was that you needed to be given family planning tablets. That is what would manage. It is actually medical treatment that they give for people with dysmenorrhea. I just happened to have an uncle who was a herbalist and all I started doing was that I would get - I will say its name in Ndebele, because my uncle is Ndebele, I used to get ntolwane. So just before I went for my periods I would take ntolwane and I never suffered from dysmenorrhea, yet today every other child that is having period pains is rushing to the pharmacy to get panadol and painstop which in certain circumstances is addictive and that for me is just a sign of how we have not been able to use the things that we are supposed to have.
We used to have what were called traditional birth attendants and they were very good in Africa. You only would refer a woman to go and give birth in hospital if you thought that there would be complications. The traditional birth attendants, when they were looking at you, were able to actually say you have a breach, therefore go to hospital. We destroyed the traditional birth attendants and yet as we speak right now in Europe if you have money you will give birth at home and yet for Africa we were told that giving birth at home showed that you were poor. Now the Europeans themselves are giving birth at home. They have their own traditional birth attendants, but for us we have destroyed that structure of traditional birth attendants. So I think this conversation needs to go beyond just the help and the health facilities to say as an African person, at the very least be proud of your Africanness and celebrate that level of Africanness.
Marijuana is one example. Europe is now asking us to grow mbanje for them because they have now realised it is medicinal, but for many years the white person came here and said if you were caught with mbanje, you would be arrested and yet they themselves are now passing laws to legalise marijuana. This is because it is now clear that it works around chronic illnesses like cancer; it works around issues of anxiety and mental illness, but for the African, nothing happened. Now, what are we doing because we never got ourselves organised around this, we are now being used as the people who grow mbanje for them to then make medicines and we remain poor. So this conversation - this is why I said for me, this is exciting because it gives us a different mindset in beginning to say how do we make our structures purely African and not necessarily go that direction.
In summary, Madam Speaker, I know that there are people who are coming to this House speaking about how we need to go GMO. Again, it contradicts some of these fundamental things that we are talking about. Traditional medicine is by its nature good because it is organic and if there is anything that we need to protect, it is our fields, vana Pfumvudza vatirikuita ivava because that is where the world is going to, but now those that want to make money will come and say go the direction of GMO, yet if you go to the United Kingdom right now and you want to buy eggs, the eggs that are organic are more expensive than the eggs that come from chickens that are GMO fed.
So we need to really start thinking and ask ourselves each time we are given these things what it means about destroying the things that can get us to live. Like I said, Madam Speaker, I am glad that covid-19 has shown us that at least there is something good that as Africans we are able to do, because everybody had taken us to the graves. We were all supposed to have died but yes, God came in. I am sure there is something traditional that got us to survive this epidemic. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. S. ZHOU: Allow me to thank my colleague Hon. Masango for this motion. We have learnt a lot on these issues. When it comes to traditional medicines, it is very painful for us to hear. The only problem that we have is us the people, we are looking down upon traditional medicines. It will seem as if someone is doing something which is evil or bad when they are treating people using traditional medicines. It is as if the modern medicines are the only ones that are acceptable.
Most women who are pregnant know the traditional medicines that they are supposed to use. For them to deliver nicely without complications, they know they resort to traditional medicines. Even young children have traditional medicines administered on them because they work. Young and old we use traditional medicines and they work for us, even most men use traditional medicine.
When we look at these traditional medicines and their use, we are proud of them, but they are not given the deserving honour they should get. People do not embrace traditional medicines. A good example for reference is the Garden of Eden. It had all the types of trees. Even to this day if you look at it the traditional medicinal plants that we are seeing today, we are getting them from our forests.
The other issue is that of people who actually embrace traditional medicines from other countries. These things that people are admiring from other countries, we have them in this country. South African went a step further and became so much persuasive on their product which is Rooibos. We could have done the same as a country.
Our scientists should dig deeper and make research on these medicinal plants. Correct information must be relayed to individuals who consume these traditional medicines so that they do not overdose and do not consume poisonous plants. Most of the people because of this pandemic which has ravaged the whole country have consumed zumbani, they have consumed medicinal plants. COVID-19 has acted as a reminder of our past, our historical background of medicinal plants that we used as people, as Africans. I am very thankful to all those who came through who taught us, informed and enlightened us with regard to the use of medicinal plants. We should be a people who are proud of their historical and cultural background with our traditional medicine. If you are not well, a doctor will just say take aspirin and everyone knows about aspirin. Education information should be passed from generation to generation. If traditional healers passed on and people do not know that vital information, what will happen and how will we know? Province by province, it should be established the use of medicinal plants that we have, their use and how we can make use of them and how it will help us as a nation.
The Ministry of Lands should engage universities especially institutions and start on the plantation of medicinal plants. People should be taught and knowledge given to them on the benefits that come with these plants. If someone is being treated at Parirenyatwa Hospital and given a list of medicine to take, it is possible that we add traditional medicine to them as they consume. Even someone who is bitten by a snake or someone who is critically ill or someone who has cancer, he/she may get assistance from these traditional medicines. With these few words, it is my anticipation to see Zimbabwe advancing and developing traditional medicines that they become something of great benefit to this nation. Thank you Madam Speaker.
(v)HON. MURIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to support Hon. Masango’s contribution to the House. I rise with happiness and where I come from in Chipinge, it is an area that is well-known for the use of traditional medicines. Even for spiritual assistance – a lot of people from this country come for spiritual assistance in Chipinge, those who are critically ill and even those with various illnesses. Our area of Chipinge has a lot of medicinal traditional medicines.
A lot of people are healed by these traditional medicines. If you use the Mutare Road to Chipinge, on your way to Chiredzi and on your way along the road you see a lot of sign posts indicating the presence of traditional healers. All of those are traditional healers who assist people using traditional medicines. I am shocked that as a nation, we spend a long time arguing and debating as if we do not know that traditional medicines work. We do not believe in our traditional methods of healing. We despise our own ways of healing through traditional medicines.
Something has been left on the parts of women. Even those that are made to strengthen private parts they use traditional medicines. If you go to the Ndau people, they will assist you in using traditional medicines. They are open and free to enlighten you with regard to that issue. We do not believe in such things as Zimbabweans. The Ministry of Health allowed for such to take place. It is important for people to be informed what traditional medicines can be used and how they can be used to the safety of people. Tree barks in my area do work as traditional medicines. I drank that from my homestead and I never went to the hospital. It really helped me. As Government, let us not waste time speaking and talking despising our traditional medicines.
It is by desire that we have a law that will enforce and force the Ministry of Health that traditional medicines be used legally. Allow universalities, especially institutions, to develop these ideas and develop these traditional medicines. What we need to understand and know is for people to have the knowledge, how this is used and how it can be developed for the safety of those who consume it. We need to educate people on what exactly needs to be done. As Parliament, we should look at the law, how we can best craft it. If we do that, even some of the money that we use to import medicine from China, we will see reduction in the budget. One of the major problems we have as a nation is, we look down upon ourselves when it comes to the use of traditional medicines. We are not proud of ourselves.
Madam Speaker, my desire is that we must not waste time talking. All the ministries in Government should come together, sit down and deliberate on the best way to develop our traditional medicines for the safe use of citizens. I do not have much to say Hon. Speaker. With those few words, I would like to thank you for the time that you gave me.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me an opportunity to also contribute on the report by Hon. Masango, which was seconded by Hon. Toffa. The major problem is that we are ashamed of ourselves. We do not follow our culture and the traditional ways that we are supposed to. There is no culture that is said not to exist - even the Chinese, the whites and the Jews. If you are to bring snuff, people will dismiss you as a traditional healer. If we are to visit our cultural practices, everyone does put snuff on their hands but for people to bring snuff into this House, they get ashamed of their cultural practices.
If we look at the Traditional Leaders Act, it empowers people to do things traditionally. The chiefs are responsible for the various areas. They are well-informed on the medicinal plants in this country. They can assist us because they have indigenous knowledge with regards to herbs. Madam Speaker, during campaigns, I held about six meetings in Hurungwe West and I developed stomach problems. I talked to a certain elder and revealed to him that I could not carry on because I had a terrible tummy ache. He just went into the bush for three minutes as I wanted to leave. He asked me to chew a certain herb and the pain stopped. I had to do three more meetings. I say this because if we look down upon some of these things we will continue to suffer.
COVID has killed a lot of people in the urban areas and not in the rural areas – why? That is the question. Why did we wait for the ravaging of this pandemic so that we start to act? Our universities in the country have departments that can do something about all these things. The Head of State urged us to pray so that we have good rains. Spirit mediums are also in waiting to see us consulting them on what can be done. Mbuya Nehanda was a spirit medium. What are we doing as a nation in terms of consulting the spirit mediums that are still alive? We are doing nothing. During the liberation struggle, people consulted spirit mediums but today we have gone silent. We are not doing anything.
It is ideal that we re-visit our traditional practices and consult our elders. How many of us take our children to their rural areas? That is the first step that shows that you know who you are. If you look at young girls of these days, we heard Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga giving a testimony that she was once unwell and was treated by traditional medicines.
Right now, we hear that mbanje is a medicine; it is a multi-million dollar industry. In the rural areas, people used to smoke mbanje and they were not arrested; some people who herd cattle smoke it. Some actually despise people who smoke mbanje. We should be proud of ourselves and that which the Lord gave us.
Hon. Masango, in her report, stated that of the 200 drugs at Parirenyatwa Hospital only two are local. It is painful. If we look at the money that is given to research and development on our budget it is little. Nothing is done without money. Even the vaccines that we are taking are herbs that are refined. How can we fail as a nation to develop these medicinal plants and come up with a vaccine? What China has done well is to come up with a product that has been well researched and turned it into a vaccine. Mothers’ Day is coming and mothers are here. You all know the remedies. It is my advice that we go back to our cultural ways as narrated by Hon. Moyo, let these people come together, doctors and traditional herbalists. They must come up with a sustainable solution. One thing that has killed this area is corruption, the problem is we want to buy from Drugs International. Corruption is the root cause that caused lack of development of these medicines. Those who are gifted do not look for money, people run away from the correct channels and resort to corruption, they are buying from Drugs International through corrupt means.
We should inject capital for research, we are the only ones who are ashamed of our culture. My father believed in traditional ways and medicines. He told me that when you have problems, you do not visit a n’anga - you take snuff, go in the forest under a tree and consult the spirit. Whenever we have elections, I go and consult a spirit medium, that is why I win always in my constituency, even those Hon. Members like Hon. Nduna and the like when they want to cause problems they will not succeed because my ancestors will be looking after me and fighting for me. I am telling you now that if you face problems, take snuff and go into the forest and consult the spirits of your lineage. I do that even at my farm, I do not experience hunger, and I experience a bumper harvest every year. If you follow tradition you will start to see things moving positively. Let us not be between culture and modern methods, follow our culture.
Before I conclude, I want to take this opportunity to say that next week will be Mothers’ Day. We will commemorate our mothers; though we might disagree in this House, I salute all the women Hon. Members in here including the Hon. President of Senate and you our Hon. Deputy Speaker. To be what we are, you the mothers are to be complimented for the good work that you did. I will bake scones and bring in this House next week for all the women parliamentarians in this august House.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Hon. T. Mliswa you are allowed to bring us scones next week when we resume sitting so that we celebrate this big day, Mothers’ Day. Your effort will be greatly appreciated.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add just one or two words to the report by the Portfolio Committee on Health. The topic under discussion is a reminder for us Zimbabweans; there is a saying globally that if you want to take a case study of how to colonize a country, you have to visit Zimbabwe. We are the most colonized country in the world. For us to be having this debate more than 40 years after independence, it tell you Madam Speaker that what we have done over the past 40 years, we have not done what we said we wanted to do when we went to the liberation war.
What we intended to do was to bring back Zimbabwe that has been taken over by force. If you check from 1980, we have actually been competing to outshine the Europeans in their own game. We have been competing to simply say we are the best in probably speaking English or doing other things that do not really add value. I will give you a good example in terms of the COVID-19 vaccine. I know it is now a fashionable thing to simply say ‘have you been vaccinated’. Most of our people prefer to be vaccinated by a vaccine that they do not know anything about. They shy away from our traditional medicine. I know for a fact that for some of us, we are proud to take traditional medicine, traditional medicine does not necessarily mean that one has to go to a n’anga. Traditional medicine is out there; all our tradition has taught us that this tree, this shrub and this grass cures this and that disease.
The mere fact that we have got a Ministry of Health in 2021 which does not allocate fund towards the budget for traditional medicine shows you that Zimbabwe is not yet in World Health Organisation. We have not reached a stage as a country where we are proud of being Africans, where we are proud of our tradition and proud of being great Zimbabweans, we have not reached that stage. I listened to Hon. Masango when she was doing the report. My only misgiving on the report was to say we need a perception to say the Committee also chat with a number of herbalists who are dotted around the country.
I know for instance in my constituency, we have a garden where we grow traditional medicines and we are using those medicines to cure people from various ills, including the recent COVID-19 infection. We did not hear the report telling us the challenges that our herbalists are actually facing in this process. Our fear Madam Speaker is that there is deliberate policy in the Ministry of Health where our traditional medicine is being stolen during the night and going out there and being patterned in other countries where those drugs then come as if they have been manufactured in Europe, America or Asia whereas that medication will be coming from Africa.
I think what is crucial and what is important, next time when the budget is presented before Parliament, there is need for the Portfolio Committee on Health to scrutinize the health budget, and find out how much has been allocated to traditional medicines. More importantly Madam Speaker, there was the Hon. Member who spoke from Chipinge, he was correct to simply say we do have the medication. It is not about research, it is not about taking our medication and putting it in a laboratory. What is important is that the only research that is needed is to simply say when I take zumbani what quantity should I take in the morning, afternoon and evening and what should be a course of zumbani, this is what needs to happen. This is when you need the people that went to colleges to be trained in this regard. Without that Madam Speaker, Zimbabwe we are going nowhere. My view Madam Speaker is that we need as a matter of urgency, and we will be discussing this when the budget comes to simply say have monies set aside.
Lastly, I just want to mention another aspect and all the various legislation that the report relates to. Most of the legislation was put way back during Ian Smith’s time. They have not been looked into and this is one of the things that the Portfolio Committee on Health needs to do. Also they need to interrogate the Ministry of Health to really look into these pieces of legislation so that they are actually in conformity with the aspirations of Zimbabweans. Once we do that, then we will actually be happy.
I represent a few, if not the majority of people that still believe that getting vaccinated whether it is Pfizer, whether it is Johnson and Johnson, whether it is a vaccine from China or from India, are actually happier to continue to change the vaccines from our own medication that we have been taking. To me, they make more sense. As I stand Madam Speaker, I move to support this report by simply asking the Portfolio Committee to do even more as they go forward; as we go towards the budget. I thank you.
(v)HON. H. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this chance to also support the report that was presented by Hon. Masango and seconded by Hon. Toffa. I think there is need for research in public use of traditional medicines and we also should now have traditional medicines’ pharmacies that are functioning. Shown by the statistics that two thirds of the population around the country use these traditional medicines, whether openly or in secrecy, we should now have traditional pharmacies in place so that people could choose whether they want to go to the traditional way or to hospitals. We should also by now have opened colleges that train traditional healers so that the people that believe in traditional healers can just go there knowing that the people have been trained professionally.
We also should train traditional healers’ nurses. There should be colleges or universities that are in place to train nurses, so that when they use the medicines, they use the right dosages that have been verified to give to people. We should have researched medicines that can be exported so that the country gets foreign currency – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Order, Hon. Members on virtual. You can proceed.
HON. H. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was saying researched medicines can be exported to other countries and in turn can bring foreign currency to our country. This is my contribution. Thank you for affording me this chance of contributing.
*HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this report. I would like to thank the Almighty for giving us these trees which we use as medicines. I would like to start with zumbani, especially this time of COVID- 19. I noticed it on one funeral in my rural area. Everyone harvested zumbani to use when they return to their respective homes. If it was not for zumbani, we could have died of COVID-19. We look down upon these traditional medicines but they work wonders on certain ailments.
I had a nephew who used to treat people who would have been beaten by snakes even if the person is far away. You could just call him and he will ask you where the person was bitten and he would treat the person by rubbing that medicine in his body part similar to where that person was bitten and the person will be healed. This is the extent of how traditional medicines can work. What we should do is to promote and trust them. Since this issue has been raised here in Parliament by Hon. Masango and seconded by Hon. Toffa, if we continue talking about these traditional medicines, the Government will do something.
Also those who use traditional medicines should come out openly so that others can also see how they work. These traditional medicines should be packaged and there should be books about those medicines and how they work. Our Grandfathers and mothers used to trust these medicines but we are now discarding them. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAPER: On a point of order Hon. Members. Let us not repeat what has already been said, so that we accommodate everyone. As you can see, I have got over 10 Members on virtual and three in the House. So, kindly assist by not repeating what has been said by another Hon. Member so that at least we can allow other Hon. Members to contribute.
(v) HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also add a voice to the debate on traditional medicines which was raised by Hon. Masango and seconded by Hon. Toffa on their Committee report. Hon. Speaker, I will go Biblical today by quoting Ezekiel 47 vs12. The Bible says “by the river on its bank, on one side and on the other, will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither and their fruit will not fail. They will bear every month because their water flows from the sanctuary, and their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing”. It shows how God set forth nature so that it can be used as it is. If you go to Exodus 15 verse 23, the Bible says, “and when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah for they were bitter. Therefore, the name of place was called Marah.”
Exodus Chapter 25 concluded that issue when the Bible says, “And Moses cried unto the Lord and the Lord showed him a tree which he had cast into the waters and the waters were made sweet. There, he made for them a statute and an ordinance”. It is also showing that God is supporting traditional medicines.
Where did we go wrong Hon. Madam Speaker? Through colonization, we have lost our culture in favour of processed herbs and now we prefer injections, capsules and pills. We have lost on the marketing ground because the media was controlled by colonialists such that we have now doomed with disdain on our traditional herbs.
Some Hon. Members in this august House wear traditional clothes like me but unlike me, they do not go an extra mile to use traditional medicine. We do not even understand why we wear traditional wear when we cannot balance it up with traditional medicine. So, all drugs come from nature yet we have thrown them outside and thrown away our culture. Even the Lord Jesus Christ used traditional medicines as said in John Chapter 9 verse 6, “when Jesus had spoken, he spat on the ground and made clay of spittle and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with clay”.
It indeed shows that nature is where all these things are coming from. I just want to speak on the issue of being industrial; this time maybe asking Ministers responsible to repeal the Statutory Instrument on industrial herb farming because it is in such a way that only the rich can farm it. We kindly ask the relevant Ministers to review the SI so that they relax or reduce the licence fees required to enable everybody to be able to grow it.
Hon. Speaker, in my constituency, we have had running battles with one organisation, which gets its medicines from South Africa, and they call it herbal medicine. They were in a place called Kensington and I was called to Kensington to see roads being locked because there is a lot of traffic going into that place. So as a Member of Parliament representing that area, they asked me to come and resolve that issue. I went with council authorities and found that they were operating illegally and asked them to close. They closed and moved to another section of the same constituency but within two weeks, we got another complaint. The roads are closed, there are so many clients, and there is so much noise. We went there and they closed and now I hear that they are in Msasa. This is clue that traditional medicine works Hon. Speaker.
As I conclude, in Revelations 22 verse 2 which says, “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bear 12 manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nation”. Again, God is going back to nature it shows what is really important. I support this motion that has been put forward by the Health Committee. I thank you.
(v)*HON. MAKONI: I would like also to contribute to the motion that was brought by Hon. Masango seconded by Hon. Toffa. This is a very important report to us. Traditional medicines are very good to us as Africans. These traditional medicines have helped our elders in the past even in the present day, that is why they are healthy.
We dismissed these traditional medicines as useless because we had adopted the western medicines. We should never throw away our culture. A woman passed on from sugar diabetes; if only she had known she would have been saved from death. We have herbs that assist such ailments.
In most instances, these western medicines are expensive and beyond the reach of many compared to our own traditional medicines that are easily accessible. There are a lot of benefits in traditional medicines and there is a lot we can gain as a people. Let us embrace our culture. I thank you.
*HON. SHAMU: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. The first thing the colonialists did when they came into this country was to get rid of our tradition and culture to enable themselves to rule over us. I am happy it has been well articulated in depth and I remember a few days ago we attended a workshop. Journalists were commemorating the World Press Freedom Day which was hosted by UNESCO and Namibia. A speaker at the workshop said someone referred to COVID-19 as ‘Covid-91,’ another is said to have said ‘Covo,’ the other even said ‘Coventry.’ We all know what we have been told about previous pandemics like that which was referred to as Gore rehwiza. I feel that we should also give this pandemic a name in our own local languages and call it ‘Denda renhandira.’ Other words in different dialects can also be crafted - Ndebele, Shangani, Suthu and so on. That is the first thing that I wanted to say.
Secondly, I would like to thank Hon. Moyo who touched on the issue of previous innovation done at the University of Zimbabwe to show that there was once research in trying to develop our medicines. This reminded me of the late Prof. Godfrey Lloyd Chavunduka who was a traditionalist. He was very passionate about indigenous knowledge systems. He passed on when he was of an advanced age. He used to encourage people to preserve traditional culture. At one point he was the head of ZINATHA and he was also influential at the University of Zimbabwe. He is someone who valued African tradition. He was educated, he was a sociologist. I was also reminded of the late Herbert Ushewokunze who was a medical doctor, but also believed in allopathic medicines because he believed that all these could be applied to different ailments.
Let me also say that it is important to preserve these traditional herbs as we know that burning bushes leads to the destruction of these natural resources that are found in our forests. We know that with the resettlement that is happening, there has been wanton destruction of forests. Some people just cut down trees without looking at the type of trees that they will be cutting.
Going back to our traditions, let us look at what is happening right now, are we not destroying our traditions, looking at the way we are destroying the forests. The burning down of bushes should not be done. There should be deterrent sentences for perpetrators of such crimes. In the past, there were a number of laws which included interventions that were done when a veld fire erupted. For example, if people were travelling by bus and happened to pass through where a veld fire had erupted, they were expected to stop the bus and try to put out the fire. This can also be applied in the contemporary society so that we preserve our herbs which are found in our forests.
It is also important that there is research. We have a tendency of not accepting things that we are seeing, we have places like the Henderson Research and Kadoma Cotton Research Institute and these stations are not operational. In the past, these stations were used for research and development of seeds. So it is important for us to support such initiatives which bring development in the country. It is also important to take indigenous knowledge systems seriously. My request is that – in looking at allopathic medicines, it is important that we respect and honour them, instead of looking down on them. We might not have control of what might be transpiring, but we need to understand that our culture and future are in our hands. I thank you.
(V)*HON. PETER. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like to start by thanking the Hon. Members who brought this motion, which is a crucial motion. This issue concerning traditional medicines is a very important issue. When we look at the past, you will discover that hospitals did not appreciate the use of traditional medicines. At times, you would find people with different ailments in Mberengwa where I come from being treated using allopathic or traditional medicines. At times we might not have a solution for some ailments, but I believe that the suggestion that traditional medicines should be appreciated and put to use is a good suggestion.
There are some people who sometimes go to radio stations to advertise that they have herbs which can treat different ailments. There should be a law which prohibits those people. If a herb is found in traditional pharmacies, it means that it would have gone through a thorough research, investigation and scrutiny by professional scientists to determine its efficacy. It is then that one should go on air and advertise their herbs. We do not want misleading advertisements on national broadcasts. Sometimes we need to put in place laws that protect our traditional and indigenous knowledge systems. In countries like Uganda and other African countries which have such laws which appreciate and protect indigenous knowledge systems, sometimes you discover that we find people getting sick because we are shunning our traditions and our medicines. This can be explained that in the past, such diseases were being treated using traditional medicines. So it is important that we do that as a nation because there are some medicines which are found in our forests or bushes. Such medicines need to be protected. Some might not need to be planted but they need to be protected. So let us protect our forests. Let us make sure that our traditional medicines are protected and conserved for posterity, especially in the rural areas where we find vast tracts of land with such traditional medicines.
You will discover that in other areas, some people are using modern technology to treat foot and mouth in cattle but in the past, we used to use our traditional medicines to treat foot and mouth disease. So it is important that even our traditional medicines be medicines that are applied. During my childhood, I did not go to hospital but I grew up being treated by my parents who were using the indigenous knowledge system. Hospitals were not there when we were growing up but still we received treatment. However, nowadays this is not happening.
So what Hon. Moyo said is very correct. We have the right to talk confidently about allopathic medicines. As Hon. Members of Parliament, it is also important to articulate such issues at such a forum. My plea, Madam Speaker, is that traditional medicines should be considered. So I would add my voice to support the report. I thank you.
(v)*HON. SAIZI: Thank you Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this discussion which is a motion which was put forward by Hon. Masango. Madam Speaker, it became apparent that there was no harmony between the Ministry of Health and Child Care and ZINATA, but what surprised me today is that the consensus that is in this House has never happened where you find Hon. Members agreeing upon a topic like this.
It pains to experience different ailments. We know that there are ailments like cancer which do not have a cure but this is because we do not appreciate our indigenous knowledge systems. Research has not been done to see whether there is a way of addressing such illnesses. The problem, Madam Speaker, is that sometimes for those who go to work you will discover they expect everyone to have five O’levels. No one considers Shona but Shona is the language that is our mother tongue and you will discover that most people who use allopathic medicines are people who can communicate using the local language. So I believe that there is need for funding of a research institute, of research programmes aimed at investigating the efficacy of indigenous knowledge systems, particularly traditional medicines so that we have vaccines and medicines to treat different ailments.
Madam Speaker, I am surprised that in the past, herbs were being used. At times people were taking tea or herbs in their tea and they were healthy. This is quite an important discussion which will culminate in us using herbs and allopathic medicines. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. We are left with quite a number of Hon. Members wishing to contribute to this debate so let us not continue repeating the same points that have been raised by previous speakers.
HON. MUNETSI: I want to thank you for giving me this time to just pick on a few items that I feel are of importance and people must know about our traditional medicine.
Traditional medicine is there and it is real. I want to cite a few examples where we do not use colonial medicine, where we use traditional medicine and we do not have an English equivalent for anything like that. I want to give an example of what we call in Shona runyoka. We do not have any pill that can heal runyoka except if you go to a traditional healer.
If you look at someone who is mentally retarded, if you want that person to be cured and healed forever you go to a traditional healer. Look at some things like toothache. They say the best medicine to cure your teeth is to remove it but we have got traditional medicine that can cure ailing teeth and they remain in your mouth without removing them. It was done to me practically. I do not know and if I may ask – there are some women and when someone is pregnant they go to our old mothers and get some medicine from them, which we do not find anywhere within the English society. That is the reason why the first pregnancy, you send your wife back to their parents so that they can be given that type of medicine. I do not know what it is called but the old ambuyas know what I am talking about.
If you ask Hon. Kwaramba, maybe she knows those traditional waters that are given to young women when they want to give birth during their first pregnancy. Look at nhova - we have something called nhova in our culture which is also healed traditionally. In the event that one is affected by STIs, it is also healed traditionally. We have in Shona what they call guchu which you are given by our traditional fathers. You drink it for two to three days and it all goes off traditionally. We also have some medicine for back-ache which is also given and it is not found within the English framework. Here in Harare, there is an Indian just opposite OK near Leopold Takawira and next to Kingstone who heals traditionally.
All the medicine that you get there is traditional and the place is packed every time because traditional medicine does a lot just here in Harare. I do not want to talk about human beings only. If you go to our domestic animals, they heal our cattle traditionally. If you put gavakava in water, it heals chicken - what they call chitosi and all that is done traditionally. It is so much that tradition has done. If you give cattle chin’ai soot, it heals the whole system of the cattle.
Even during the war, tradition worked and if you ask the Chimurenga gurus, they can tell you. I was a mujibha during the end of the war. They can tell you about how this bird called chapungu was used during the war. It is all traditional. So, we have several methods of our tradition which work so well, but we have neglected them because we want to be English. We can never be English and a leopard can never change the colour of its skin.
You cannot walk forward when you are looking backwards, never. What we should know is that we have a tradition which we must follow. I do not even advocate for some laboratories for our medicines. Let us use it the way we used it before. We should go to the mbuyas, sekurus and to our n’angas wherever they are –that is our lab and we get our medicine from there just like that. I thank you.
(v) HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to debate on the report which was tabled by Hon. Masango and which was seconded by Hon. Toffa on advancing traditional medicine. Long ago, there were no hospitals and there was no English medicine. These medicines came later and they used that chance to introduce their medicine so that we see our own traditional medicine as useless. Also, Christianity looked upon everything that we did in a negative sense. If we keep on using our traditional medicine, it really works. We even have traditional love portions so that when the husband does not come at home in time, he is given that love portion and he changes completely...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Masenda, I am sorry we can no longer hear you. I will give you another chance to debate when the network is up. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I just want to touch on two issues because the rest have been touched on the issue of traditional medicine. I compliment this report in that we currently have infiltration by the erstwhile colonisers or by the First World into our traditional medication and our traditional way of living which might bring to extinction the current way of our living in terms of both medication and our livelihood in terms of our seeds. The first issue I want to touch on and encourage is the issue of our small grains. The continuation and the subsistence of planting, ploughing and rearing of our small grains can be complemented by our “Pfumvudza” concept.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Seedco in terms of our small grains has been taken over by Monsato. Monsato is an American company which seeks to infuse and to take over our seed bank which was championed by Seedco. The long term effect of Monsato taking over our local seed varieties makes sure that we do not have longevity in terms of our small grains and the varieties of our traditional seeds that are actually resistant and resilient against our local and our African pesticides and herbicides.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, the people that I am talking about are an international cartel which are meant to make sure that eventually we will start having GMO and other varieties as mentioned by the seconder of this report, Hon. Toffa and Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. So, for us to make sure we protect our seed varieties, we need to protect our local seed bank so that there can be traditional medicinal properties derived from our traditional grain and our traditional foods. For a very long time, our health has been protected by these traditional medicines and our traditional foods that have traditional medicinal properties.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is my fervent view and hope that as His Excellency has proclaimed and pronounced that 1% of our national budget should go to research and development, it is my hope that our traditional medicine field and our operatives can tap into this 1% of our national budget that has been proclaimed by His Excellency in terms of enhancing the operationalisation of our traditional medicines and our traditional food stuffs.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, as I wind up, I want to say we need to have our national seed bank and the way to do it is not to give away our birth right to global cartels championed by Monsato as I have spoken about. It is only prudent, fair and just to make sure that we go into these contracts and agreements all eyes open so that we cannot reverse the gains of our independence. It is time to make sure that we get our birth right back that was taken over by the colonialists.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, the issue of traditional medicines and infusing it in the current Health Act is similar to what we want to do with the artisanal miners in the current Mines and Minerals Act. There is need to repeal the current Mines and Minerals Act, shred it and bring in the artisanal miners and small scale miners to also be recognised in the Mines and Minerals Act that we want to repeal. Similarly, we need to shred the current Medical and Medical Practitioners Act in order that we include our formally marginalised black majority, the Mbuya Nehandas of our time, the traditional healers of our time and those that we had sidelined because of the Pioneer Column and the erstwhile colonisers.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I have vociferously, effectively and efficiently given my word on this motion and this report as the people of Chegutu West Constituency would have heard me debate. I thank you.
(v)*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to debate the issue which was brought into this House by Hon. Masango, the issue of our own traditional medicine. As African people, we destroyed our own traditional medicines because we have no confidence in our medicine. If you look at roots such as ginger, we look down upon them but the moment the West came through and talked about it, we then started using it. What we are saying is that we need to change our mindset and we also need to have legislation that will promote use of our traditional medicine.
I think our education also discriminated against anything African as it promotes everything Western as ideal. We do not want to dwell much on our traditional ways of life. Now that we have Education 5.0, it should also look into the issue of research of our traditional medicines so that we can also have tablets that can be sold openly and are well packaged after the research.
The white man came into our country whilst our African ancestors treated themselves using traditional medicines which were very effective. Our fellow Africans thought that the well-packaged tablets from the white man were the ideal medicines forgetting that our own medicine could still be used for medicinal purposes and heal ailments. Other religious groups look down upon traditional medicine and see it as evil. I think we should come up with relevant legislation, so that we go back to the drawing board like we did with the small grains. People now want to take sadza made from small grains which is very healthy. We should know that our medicines are very good and be convinced of its effectiveness. I say so because one can get cancer and some succumb to it while others lose their limbs but you would find that one can actually go to a very humble person whom people do not hold in high regard and be treated. So many diseases that we are getting today can be treated using traditional medicines but the challenge is we have been colonised and believe Western medicine is the best and have lost our values as Africans.
It would be ideal if we write about this medicine using our own vernacular languages giving the names in vernacular and not English. Using the name pain killer has brainwashed people and yet if I go and get the bark of “mutamba tree” and take it, my headache will go away. We want to thank the Hon. Members who have come up with such a motion pushing for a legislation to establish factories to process traditional medicines in the form of tablets or powders. We take some powders from South Africa which soothes our headaches. If we also do likewise with our traditional medicine, we can then see that our medicine is effective.
We have been colonised and we were educated not to provide for ourselves but learnt subjects like Maths and English without learning about things that develop us as Africans. In my rural area, a person can be bitten by a black mamba but we have elders who know the medicine and what they do is they just rub the medicine on the snake bite and one is healed. The challenge is that we tend to associate traditional medicine with witch doctors, which is bad. These are different. What we are talking about here are traditional medicines obtained from the trees and roots that God gave us that we can use as medicine. With these words, I rest my case.
(v) *HON. SHAVA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my voice on the motion concerning our traditional herbs. I want to say that Zimbabwe must have pharmacies that sell traditional medicines. Long ago even in the liberation struggle, the war veterans were treated using traditional herbs, be it snake bites or whatever. Traditional herbs have been used since time immemorial.
In our culture, women who give birth for the first time are sent back to their homes so that they will be given traditional herbs that will make it easy when they deliver. This cultural process is called kusungira. Experts or herbalists must be consulted in coming up with these pharmacies. I want the Government also to encourage these herbalists to grow a lot of traditional herbs just like the Government encourages farmers to grow crops under command agriculture. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th May, 2021.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day on today’s Order Paper Nos. 10 to 17, be stood over until Order No. 18 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 48TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
` HON. KWARAMBA Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the 48th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC – Parliamentary Forum, held virtually on 04th to 5th December 2020.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am presenting a report of the 48th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held virtually on the 4th of December 2020.
Introduction
The 48th Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was held virtually on the 4th of December, 2020. The deliberations were aimed at consolidating, administrative and financial matters of the Forum as well as to discuss issues of regional concern. Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe led the delegation which compromised the following Members of Parliament.
- Hon. Sen. Tambudzani Mohadi, Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture, Natural Resources and Infrastructure.
- Hon. Goodlucky Kwaramba, Standing Committee on Gender, Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development and Chairperson of Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus.
- Hon. Dought. Ndiweni, Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights,
- Hon. Anele Ndebele, Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment
- Hon. Joyce Makonya, Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
Official Opening Ceremony.
The Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Prof. Sylvestre Ilunga Ilunkamba, was guest of honour and official opened the Plenary Assembly. The Premier pronounced his country’s support to efforts to transform the SADC Parliamentary Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament as his country assumed the Presidency of the SADC PF. Prof. Ilunkamba Tamba recalled that, in the aftermath of the aggression war in 1998, SADC troops made up of Angolan, Namibian and Zimbabwean contingents supported DRC troops to put an end to foreign aggression. He said DRC would forever remain grateful for such regional cooperation, thus paying tribute to the troops that fell in the battlefield to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the DRC.
In proposing a vote of thanks the Speaker of the National Assembly of Botswana Hon. Phandu Tombola Chaha Skelemani stated categorically that it was unacceptable that SADC remained the only region in Africa without a Regional Parliament. He paid tribute to the mutual dependency among member of States of the SADC region attested by the intervention to maintain peace in the DRC.
Statement by the Speaker of the National Assembly of Zimbabwe, Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda pursuant to Rule 45 of the rules of procedure
Hon. Mudenda recalled that on 11th October 2020, he moved a motion in accordance with Rule 26 (4) of the Rules of Procedure regarding the tabling of motions on matters of urgency and regional importance to support the candidature of Hon. Duarte Pacheco of Portugal for the position of President of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU).
In this regard, the Hon. Speaker was happy to report that Hon. Duarte Pacheco was overwhelmingly elected as the 30th President of the IPU after an unprecedented online election held during the Extraordinary Virtual Session of the IPU’s Governing Council on 2nd November 2020.
The election of Hon. Pacheco would precipitate his vision of having Parliaments playing critical roles in finding collective responses to global challenges.
Furthermore, the Hon. Speaker reiterated President Pacheco’s commitment to strengthening the IPU by building bridges between countries, peoples and continents to address the problems facing the world. There was also an urgent call to respect the voices of all Parliaments regardless of their sixes or geographical location.
Adoption of the report of the Executive Committee
The Executive Committee tabled its report for consideration and adoption during the 48th Plenary Assembly meeting, which was duly adopted.
Update on transformation of the forum into a SADC Regional Parliament and related Plenary Assembly Matters
Plenary Assembly noted with appreciation the highly successful Lobby Meeting led by the Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nwidamilimo Mudenda, Chairperson of the Strategic Lobby Team to the Prime Minister of the Republic of Lesotho, Rt. Hon. Dr. Moeketsi Majoro, on Monday 9th November 2020. The meeting expressed profound gratitude to the Speaker of the National Assembly of Lesotho, Rt. Hon. Sephiri Enoch Motanyane for facilitating this meeting.
Plenary Assembly expressed profound appreciation to the National Assembly of the DRC, through Hon. Speaker Jeanine Mabunda for hosting the 48th Plenary Assembly Session
Hon. Speaker Mabunda was elected SADC PF President unopposed. She became the first woman from her country to assume the Presidency of the SADC PF.
Plenary Assembly noted the Transformation Agenda and roadmap document submitted to member countries as the most practical implementation tool for the transformation process. The Parliament of Zimbabwe has since made positive comments towards the document.
UPDATE ON THE OFFICIAL RESIDENCE OF THE SECRETARY GENERAL
The Plenary Assembly noted with appreciation that the forum had purchased an official residence for use by Secretary General. The Plenary noted that the Secretary General had since moved into the new property situated at Erf 2052, Klein Windhoek, 89 Joseph Mukwayu Ithana Street, Ludwigsdorf, Windhoek, Namibia.
SECONDMENT OF STAFF FROM NATIONAL PARLIAMENTS
The Plenary Assembly noted and appreciated the secondment of staff from the Parliaments of Angola, Malawi, Seychelles, Zambia, Zimbabwe and South Africa to the SADC PF Secretariat. Other countries were requested to fill the remaining slots on the forum’s administrative paradigm.
MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING THE 48th PLENARY ASSEMBLY MEETINGS
Motion on a Matter of Urgency and Regional Importance: Condemning terrorist attacks in the Republic of Mozambique and expressing solidarity with the Government and people of Mozambique
The Plenary Assembly Session adopted a motion strongly condemning terrorist attacks in the North of Republic of Mozambique and the unrest in the eastern part of the DRC. With respect to the armed insurgency in Mozambique, the Plenary Assembly noted that such terrorism was threatening that country’s security and sovereignty and undermining the efforts to consolidate the rule of law and democracy. The Plenary called for a regional response to the terrorist attacks in Mozambique to avoid the phenomenon spreading to other SADC member states.
Motion on the Impact of the African Migratory Locust on Agriculture and Food Security in Southern Africa
Plenary Assembly adopted a motion calling for an integrated pest management system in managing the locusts in order to effectively control the further spread of the pests.
Motion on Debt Cancellation Campaign Initiative and Conference of Speakers and Heads of African Parliaments
The Plenary Assembly noted the establishment of the Conference of Speakers and Heads of African Parliaments (CoSAP), which was officially launched in October 2020 by the Speakers of the Parliaments of Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Rwanda, Senegal and South Africa. Member Parliaments were enjoined to support this initiative and advocate for debt cancellation as a remedy to the current dilemma the region and continent are facing in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic.
RECOMMENDATIONS AND WAY FORWARD
Parliament of Zimbabwe to support the ‘proposed SADC Parliament and the Transformation Roadmap’ produced by the joint Task Team as a practical way to complete the missing link in the regional integration matrix. In this regard, the Parliament of Zimbabwe has written to the Executive reiterating unqualified support to the Transformation Agenda.
Parliament of Zimbabwe notes and appreciates the assumption of Hon. Christophe Mboso Nkodia Pwanga as the Speaker of the National Assembly of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Parliament fully associates itself with calls for a regional approach to root out terrorism in Mozambique and other parts of the world. A regional effort should be made to nip the scourge.
Zimbabwe stands ready to respond to the growing infestation of the African Migratory Locusts which threaten to exacerbate regional food insecurity.
CONCLUSION
Hon. Esperanca Laurinda Francisco Nhiuane Bias, Speaker of the National Assembly of Mozambique and outgoing President of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, concluded the Plenary Assembly by thanking all delegates for the support that her country received in the last two years of presidency of the forum. She encouraged the Plenary Assembly to continue pushing for the transformation agenda.
On behalf of the SADC PF and on his own behalf, the Hon. Speaker of Parliament of Zimbabwe saluted the outgoing President of SADC PF for presiding over the affairs of the forum with tact, firmness, impartiality, fairness and credibility. He implored the outgoing President of SADC P to thank the President of Mozambique, H.E. Filipe Nyusi, for graciously supporting the National Assembly of Mozambique to host the Plenary Assembly for a record three consecutive times.
Plenary Assembly adopted the nomination of the Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Mudenda into the Executive Committee of the SADC-PF spearheading the transformation of the regional forum into a regional Parliament. This role, he continues as the Chairperson of the Strategic Lobby Team of the Transformation of forum into a regional Parliament. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The issue of the Beira Corridor that is also resident into Mozambique is now infested in other part by the terrorist. It is my fervent view and hope that the SADC region can expeditiously deal with the terrorist that have invaded parts of Mozambique.
The second issue is the composition of what SADC PF is trying to transform into a fully fledged parliamentary organisation. It is applauded; I want to congratulate them, they are making very good steps in transforming that organsiation into a grouping that has parliamentary powers.
The reason why I touched on the second issue is because the aims of the SADC Forum are to provide a platform to support and improve regional integration. The first issue is that it promotes human rights, gender equality and governance, democracy and transparency; to promote peace, security and stability as has been alluded to on the issue of Mozambique; hastening the pace of economic cooperation development integration and bases for equality and mutual benefits; the facilitation of networking with other inter-parliamentary organisation if they become a fully fledged parliamentary organisation; to promote and participate in non-governmental organisation business and intellectual communities in the SADC activities; familiarisation of the people of SADC with the aims and objectives of SADC and lastly, informing SADC of popular views on development and issues affecting the region.
So, this organisation cannot continue to operate without fully fledged parliamentary powers. This is my view and I applaud them for taking steps to transform themselves into a parliamentary organisation.
My last point is the issue of these locust migrations which might deplete the agrarian reform programme of the SADC region including that of 2000 in Zimbabwe. However, this is the physical transformation or movement of these locusts. I spoke earlier of global organisations which are cartels in agricultural activities, in particular in seed varieties, Monsanto and such like these also should be curtailed by the SADC Parliamentary Forum in terms of infiltrating into the SADC region and causing the depletion of our known seed bank. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second an eloquently presented report by Hon. Kwaramba of the SADC PF 48th Summit.
HON. T. MOYO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 11th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. T. MOYO, seconded by HON. NDUNA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Six o’clock p.m. until Tuesday 11th May, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 5th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, can we know the ministers who are in the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, Ministers who are in the House are; Hon. Prof. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, Hon. J. Moyo Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. Dr. Masuka, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement, Hon. Mudyiwa, Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. E. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Muswere, Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services, Hon. Machingura, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, Hon. Marapira, Minister of State in Hon. Vice President’s Office…
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: There are no apologies from Ministers?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am sure they are on their way coming. Let us give them time.
HON. SIKHALA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sikhala, today we do not take points of order, it is Wednesday remember. You can ask your point of order tomorrow on Thursday. It was a ruling from the Speaker.
HON. SIKHALA: My point of order is related to the business of the day and Madam Speaker, you cannot thwart a very important point of order that has something to do with the business of the day. If you are saying that we are no longer allowed to participate in the debate in this House, we are free to accept that undertaking Madam Speaker. It is a point of order to do with the business of the day and as a Member of Parliament, I have every right to be given that opportunity to raise my point of order. I wait for your ruling.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay Hon. Sikhala, you may go ahead. What is your point of order?
HON. SIKHALA: Madam Speaker, my point of order is very clear. You are asking us Members of Parliament to wait for Ministers while today it is known that it is the day for Members business.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not saying you should wait for them Hon. Sikhala. You can ask questions to those Ministers who are present.
HON. SIKHALA: No, my question cannot be directed to the Ministers who are here present, Madam Speaker. We must not turn this Parliament into a joke. The Ministers present today, Hon. Murwira, Hon. July Moyo and the Hon. Minister seated there, I think he is the new Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement; these are the only Ministers we see every Thursday yet our Cabinet is so full of many Ministers.
For us to be disrespected to wait for Ministers who do not want to attend to Members business, is disrespectful of this House. Mr. Speaker made a ruling that except if a Minister has given an apology, Parliament must take action against errant Ministers. They are not here to service their own personal interests. They are here to serve the interests of the people of Zimbabwe and as Members of Parliament, we are here today to ask them very pertinent questions. I wanted to ask the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Cain Mathema but is not here. He is always absent in this House. So it is now time for us to demand what the public wants to know. Why are Ministers not attending Parliament on Wednesdays?
You are talking about the Minister in the Deputy President’s office when that Deputy President is no longer there. You are telling us about Mharapira who is the Deputy Minister in Hon. Mohadi’s office yet Hon. Mahadi is no longer there.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Sikhala, what you are saying is not true. The Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education is in here, you can ask your question. Again, I was referring to Hon. Ndlovu who is the Minister of State in the Vice President’s office, Hon. Vice President Chiwenga. Minister Marapira was appointed to a new Ministry. He is no longer in the Vice President’s office. So please may you withdraw that statement.
HON. SIKHALA: Withdraw what?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What you said.
HON. SIKHALA: No, I just said Ministers are not here when we want to ask them questions. We are only having two or three substantive Ministers. You cannot tell us about deputies. Deputies are not policy makers. They do not sit in Cabinet. These are the people who sit in Cabinet who should give us what they are discussing there in as far as policy is concerned, not Deputy Ministers that do not sit in Cabinet.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Leader of the House can answer to any question.
HON. SIKHALA: He is not here. Where is Hon. Ziyambi?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Acting Leader of the House!
HON. SIKHALA: Who is that? You never told us that there is an Acting Leader of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development is the Acting Leader of the House today.
HON. SIKHALA: These are the pronouncements that Madam Speaker, you should have done before the beginning of this session.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Sikhala, you may sit down.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. Unfortunately, I am not seeing the Minister or the Deputy. So you will direct me Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: To the Leader of Government Business.
HON. DR. KHUPE: What is Government policy regarding user fees for pregnant women because what I know is, during my tenure as Deputy Prime Minister we scrapped user fees for pregnant women because when women give birth they are performing national duty and therefore they should not be punished for performing that national duty by paying user fees. As we were going around during the feedback meeting, we were told that pregnant women are made to pay user fees. What is Government policy in regards to that issue?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Khupe for a very important question because everybody is a product of pregnancy. Hon. Speaker, I want to say that unless there is an update on this issue, the previous situation of non-payment of user fees by pregnant women still stands though there may be diversions, we will be very happy to cross-check.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Hon. Minister, in some instances pregnant women are made to pay user fees indirectly. They are made to buy all the necessities they require when they go to give birth. Things like methylated spirit, cotton wool, you name it. All these things are supposed to be provided for by a hospital. Women are not supposed to bring anything. They are supposed to just go there and give birth, but right now they are made to pay user fees indirectly. What is Government policy in regards to that? I think this issue must be addressed.
HON. PROF. MURWIRA: This question is very important. Government is increasing its investment in the health sector. You would know that this year the budget for the Ministry of Health and Child Care increased almost towards the 15% that is required. We know that with this increase in investment and also the restructuring of the Ministry of Health and Child Care, it is going to curb a lot of problems as well as improve the conditions in hospitals in terms of the equipment that is required as well as the morale of the personnel.
Madam Speaker, the health sector is a very important sector and Government has been paying quite precise attention on it. The policy is very clear in terms of what we have to do. If there are certain diversions that might be there, they will be looked at in their own merit but our wish and our policy direction is to make our health services accessible and also to make sure that tax payers’ money is used to equip our hospitals. There is also a policy that has now been directed towards the issue of bio-pharmaceutical manufacturing encouragement through the Ministry of Health. We believe that with this, it will improve access to equipment and chemicals that will also make sure those things that we are talking about as problems today will disappear as a subject matter as we move on. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, still on the question of user fees, I am happy that the Hon. Member raised that. Could the Minister apprise this House as well as the nation on Government policy relating to user fees for patients suffering from mental health problems? I ask this question on the background that local authority clinics still insist that people with mental health problems pay for services. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLGOY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I wish to thank Hon. Ndebele for that question concerning people with mental health problems being asked by local authorities to pay user fees. With your leave Madam Speaker, we would be allowed to go to investigate into this matter and be able to come with a very specific answer, especially on people with mental health in local authority areas. It is very important, but it is very specific and it needs an investigation. I would be very pleased if this thing can be put in writing so that we can come with a comprehensive answer. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was waiting for your ruling because the Minister has given me a mixed response. On one hand, he has committed to bring a Ministerial Statement and on the other hand, he has also duly instructed me to put my question in writing. So I am waiting for your determination.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele, please may you put your question in writing so that the Minister will investigate and come up with the answer.
HON. NDEBELE: That is what I was waiting for Madam Speaker. Thank you.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: Mine was a point of order to simply say that the Acting Leader of the House – it is not a crime for him to answer all questions. If he does not know Government policy on a particular Ministry, it is better for him to say so rather than to pretend to be answering a question when he is not doing that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are out of order Hon. Mushoriwa.
(v)HON. E. MASUKU: My question goes to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy to ensure that people and the young generation appreciate that farming is not a hobby or a small side job but big business that can rewrite the history of our country if well embraced, adequately funded and supported? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Madam Speaker, I thank the Hon. Member for the question. Farming ought to transform to become not just a hobby or subsistence and to become a business. It is in this regard that Government is at a very advanced stage of restructuring Agritex. The Agritex that we know will be a directorate called Agricultural Advisory Services and underneath it, will be a Director for the technical capacitation of farmers and also a Director responsible for training. We want the 18 000 A2 farmers to become businesswomen and businessmen and we want the 360 000 A1 farmers to become SMEs. We want the 1.8 million households to transition from subsistence to commercial farming and it is a journey that we can partake together to transition to that. Youth are very important in this regard. So it is something that we have started to do and it is something that we need to do in terms of the accomplishment of Vision 2030. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary to the Hon. Minister is that he has eloquently put across the numbers and of the numbers that he alludes to, what is the percentage quantum of the youth in farming that is also able to transform this economy, come Vision 2030?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, I think that is a specific question. You need to put it in writing so that the Minister will go and investigate the percentage of the youth and come up with the answer.
HON. MAHAUSWA: My question to the Minister is that we have heard what he said in terms of capacitating the Agritex officers but currently, we want to know the stage that they have reached in terms of availing the resources, especially transport to the Agritex officers for them to be able to travel to different farming areas to assist the farmers with extension services. Those who were removed from the farms, who were able to engage in farming should be re-deployed to ensure that they perform their mandate.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. DR. MASUKA): Thank you Madam Speaker for the question on how far the Ministry has gone in terms of availing resources to Agritex officers for them to engage in their extension services. What we are saying is that when we are talking of Vision 2030, agriculture is the mainstay of the economy, hence the need to embark on extensive agriculture. Those who should assist the farmers are the extension officers. We have capacitated them in two ways. Firstly, by availing them the adequate resources in order to give them the commitment and the strength to do their work. So, of the five things that we have promised to give them, we have given motorbikes that we have given to the Agritex officers who are mainly involved in livestock production and also farming. We are still to give them tablets and computers to enable them to do their work. We are hoping that we will get about 5000.
In terms of protective clothing, we have availed these especially in light of COVID-19, they can work without being at risk of contracting COVID. In English we have physically motorised them but we need to motorise them mentally for a change of attitude so that they do not become optional extensionists buy transition to business advisors as we commercialise agriculture. That is the stage where we are now. So we want to capacitate them with knowledge as to what they are supposed to do so that when they go and meet the farmers, they know what they are supposed to do. That is why we have developed the department of in-service training. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
(v)*HON. KWARAMBA: I want to thank the Ministry of Agriculture for giving the extension officers resources. I want to ask the Minister what the Ministry has done in terms of ensuring that these Agritex officers can use the motorbikes since we are experiencing so many accidents of late?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The question is, what measures have you taken to ensure that the extension officers are able to ride motorbikes because we have witnessed a rise in terms of accidents from these extension officers.
*HON. DR. MASUKA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to thank Hon. Kwaramba for that question. We requested the CMED since they have the expertise in terms of use of vehicles and motorbikes; we have requested that they help our extension officers and we are working with them. We heard that more than 72 extension officers were involved in accidents. We are saying one accident is too many. We are working with the CMED who are assisting the extension officers to be able to ride the motorcycles and to be well-versed in the use of the motorbikes for them to do their work well. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My question goes to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. May I know the Government policy towards the conservation of wetlands in Zimbabwe?
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to say that this question should go to the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry. He is the one who administers, at international level, the Ramsar Convention, which translates to wetlands in Zimbabwe. I think he would answer it better than I can.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister. Hon. Meember, you can ask your question to the responsible Minister who is the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry.
(v)*HON. P. ZHOU: My question is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. It is in connection with the COVID-19 vaccines. What measures has Government put in place so that everyone who gets inoculated is availed a vaccination card?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank Hon. Zhou for that question. The measures that Government has is that everyone who is vaccinated is supposed to get a card. If there were people who were vaccinated and were not given vaccination cards, that is not Government policy. People are supposed to be issued with vaccination cards. Now, the Government is in the process of printing cards with security features that are being done by Fidelity Printers. If they are people who were vaccinated and not given cards, I think we need to investigate this matter further and see what happened. I thank you.
(v) * HON. P. ZHOU: I thank you but the issue is that there were people who were vaccinated and were given temporary cards that are different from the ones we know because the institution was saying that they do not have the vaccination cards. I was also vaccinated and was given a temporary card. My question is; if I am given that temporary card or my name is entered into a book, what is Government policy on givingall people cards so that everybody can get a vaccination card?
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker and I thank Hon. P. Zhou for the supplementary question - now it is clear. I believe that they were given temporary cards. Government is now in the process of printing vaccination cards with security features through Fidelity Printers. This will enable all vaccination centres to have adequate vaccination cards. When people are vaccinated they are given cards, whether it is a temporary card or the blue ones that we are used to. People’s details are also entered in a book when they are vaccinated. I thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam President. In my constituency, my community hears parliamentary debates through Members of Parliament unlike those who stay in urban areas who have access to the Hansard and television. What can I tell them so that they can go and collect their cards where they were vaccinated from like at Fanham Clinic, Branswit Clinic in Ward 29? When are these cards going to be available at clinics because some would want to travel abroad and require COVID-19 vaccination certificates?
*HON. PROF. MURWIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Nduna for the question. All those who were not given vaccination cards with security features must go back to the centres wehre they were vaccinated. It is from these centres that they will be told the for collectin of their cards. The cards will come in phases, maybe there are already there, I might not know. I do not have the exact date. What I can tell you is that the cards are being done by Fidelity Printers so that all the people vaccinated will get their cards. I thank you.
HON. MBONDIAH: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. What is the Government doing pertaining to the killing of children and mutilation that was seen happening across the country? Madam Speaker, over the past few months, we have seen children being killed and their bodies found in places like septic tanks. What is the Government doing in regards to these perpetrators and the witch doctors who are conniving with them to kill children for ritual purposes? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member for a very pertinent question which it is very worrisome. As Government, we are seized with the matter. In fact, I would like to think that maybe the Hon. Member wants to know what the Government policy is with regards to crimes that are being committed in that regard.
Madam Speaker, this is worrisome and whenever such a crime is committed, the police will investigate and arrest and this is happening. Going forward, we have a collective responsibility to try and see that this crime is avoided through awareness. As policy, we are going to increase our awareness to try and ensure that people are discouraged from committing such crimes which are totally unheard of in our country. We also kindly ask our citizens, the Hon. Member and everybody to try and educate our people. To eradicate crime, it is a collective responsibility for all of us as citizens. It is difficult for a police officer to predetermine that a crime is going to be committed at this particular place. However, efforts are being made to ensure that we sensitise our people and create awareness to ensure that people do not commit these crimes. I kindly ask everybody to do the same to try and assist in this awareness campaign.
HON. MBONDIAH: My supplementary is - are there any criminals who have been convicted for these crimes and if so, how many?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the follow up question. As for the statistics, as to who was actually convicted, I may not be privy to that because it is an issue within the Ministry of Justice. What I know is a lot of people have been arrested who may have committed similar crimes. I may not have the exact figures, but people have been arrested and have been taken to court. I thank you.
(v)*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. My supplementary question is what is the duration given to those who have been arrested? What programme is there, what arrangement is there when someone is arrested? What initiatives are there to thoroughly investigate a case? People are granted bail and whenever they get a chance of getting out of prison, they run away to as far as South Africa. What programmes are there to thoroughly investigate a case before someone gets a chance to run away?
* HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Hon. Speaker Maam. I would like to thank Hon. Chinotimba for the question he asked. I think I have understood his question. Madam Speaker, the rights of those who have been convicted will be respected but if there is need to change that law - of those who would have been convicted so that work is done properly, it is done in this august House. When someone has not been tried in courts of justice, he enjoys his rights as an individual. Rules and regulations concerning the arrests of individuals are followed up until when someone is not found guilty he is let go.
HON. SIKHALA: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is as follows. There is a very important matter that has been widely reported both locally and internationally on one child who was killed for ritual purposes, Tapiwa Makore. We later realised his body was buried without his head. Did the police fail to investigate the whereabouts of the head or what? The country is waiting for the answer.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. I want to thank Hon. Sikhala for such a pertinent follow up question. Investigations were carried out and forensic audits were done. The family was not satisfied with what the Government had done but the Government had used all the available laboratories to carry out the forensic audits. As to the specifics that the Hon. Member has raised, I can go and find out. I am not very sure if the child was buried without the complete body but if that is the case I will go and bring the correct answer after asking the police themselves. What I am aware of is forensic audits were done and the family was not very satisfied, they were saying some of the parts do not belong – and they were free after Government had done what was supposed to be done with the laboratories that they went to. The family was then free to choose their own scientists who would carry out the forensic audit. As far as the police are concerned, thorough investigations were done. I thank you.
HON. SIKHALA: What I asked the Minister is to give clarification about the whereabouts of the deceased’s head. That is the only part of the body that was in dispute. Whether full investigations were done to locate where the head of that child is and whether you find some other heads which you did forensic tests or not, that is where our concern is. The body was buried without the head and the head was the issue in question. Did you do enough investigations to locate where the head of that young boy is?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Sikhala, I think you can put that in writing because it is not a policy question.
HON. SIKHALA: It is because matters are investigated, so I am asking whether enough investigations were done to locate the head of child.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister has answered to that.
(v) HON. MURAMBIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. What is Government policy regarding payment of farmers who deliver their cotton to Cotton Company of Zimbabwe (COTCO), as we have noted with great concern that some of these farmers are paid with groceries instead of money? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON DR. MASUKU): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. In fact the cotton marketing season for 2021 has not commenced yet but I think the Hon. Member is making reference to last year, 2020’s marketing season where we had those macro-economic challenges and then payment, electronic money was disrupted to some extent and then COTCO opted to part pay farmers in the form of groceries. Then a balance is also due to those farmers as Government support. Now that the economy has stabilised, inflation is coming down and the payment system has been put in place, we all hope that the payment for cotton farmers this season will proceed seamlessly and smoothly and that farmers will receive their due payments.
While I am at this Madam Speaker, may I also take the opportunity to reassure the House and cotton farmers that the outstanding dues to farmers from 2020 selling season will be paid out by the 31st May, 2021. The Government is committed to ensuring that that happens and also to provide further support to ensure that cotton production becomes a viable undertaking by the small holder sector. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question goes to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. What is Government policy with regards to the cancellation of private passenger transportation? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking this important question about private transporters in the urban areas. I think Government policy has been clear at least since January 2019, that we will, from that time; operate only with ZUPCO as the main operator. Any private operator who has a kombi or a bus ought to register with the ZUPCO Company and operate under the supervision of that ZUPCO Company. Many companies have done that and in order to do so, we have ensured that those operators go through a process through the CMED so that quality control for public transporters is assured. Even the ZUPCO buses have to go through that route of being tested by CMED for compliance, both mechanically as well as in order to ensure when they operate, they follow the World Health Organisation protocols as well as Government protocols on COVID-19. Any private operator who wishes to participate in the urban areas has to go through that. We are also very sure that those whose public transport vehicle is sound will follow that route and they have been doing that.
However, we are aware that there have been a lot of private operators who have not gone through VID, who do not have registered and quality assured pieces of vehicles who want to operate outside the law. These are the people we are saying we will not tolerate because we want to bring sanity to the public transport system in the urban areas. I thank you.
HON. TOFFA: Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his response to the question. Indeed my question applied to urban areas.
I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister what mechanism he put in place to make sure that there will be adequate transportation for the citizens in the urban areas? I ask this because a lot of people are stranded without transport in the urban areas and are left with no choice but to use whatever is available.
In the process, ZRP has been instructed to make sure everybody disembarks from unlicenced transport operators. As they do this, they make sure that everyone disembarks, it does not matter who it is, where it is. There are school children from ECD, grade 1 up to high school level that are being made to disembark and are just dumped there. How does a child who is in primary school make their way back? For example, in Bulawayo, children come from across the city into schools that are in town and these children are then made to disembark. Other children are taken by the police to the police station which is further traumatic for those children.
So, the basis of my question is, what alternative mechanism has the Minister made to ensure that there will be sufficient transport to transport people that need to be transported? I thank you.
HON. J. MOYO: It is very clear that the Hon. Member is referring to specific situations which are in Bulawayo but it is a policy matter. When the policy arose in Bulawayo where it was necessary to clarify as to what constitutes a public transport that ought to be registered through CMED and on to ZUPCO; we sent people to engage with the police in Bulawayo and the Minister of State for Bulawayo Metropolitan to clarify to would be transporters. For those transporters who do not want to register with CMED and to register through ZUPCO, would pretend that we have been hired by a group of parents to transport children. However, Children transportation is even more important than your normal public transportation.
The police are now investigating out on those unqualified, unregistered, unlicenced vehicles who are now hiding behind this system of saying we have been hired by a school or parents. So, we gave instructions to take that vehicle, register it with CMED, ZUPCO and if it is hired by the schools, then we know for sure this is a qualified vehicle. That has been done in Bulawayo but we have done that all over the country to clarify and the police have made that clarification as well.
There was another issue of the private industrialist who normally buy their own vehicle; that has never been a problem except some who were now being mischievous to circumvent a public policy. We have corrected that one and we will continue to educate our people. Do not circumvent the law, the policy that has been put because it serves the public good in order to bring sanity to our urban areas as far as transportation is concerned.
Yes, I will admit that if we had all the transportation that we need, we could transport everybody one time but we do not have. It is also exacerbated by the fact that we do not have routes that are earmarked for ZUPCO. Therefore they are competing at peak time with other operators and this is cusing all the chaos of our transport system that is taking place in the urban areas. So, the turnaround time which is mostly earmarked to a certain number of times is messed up because of the traffic-jams that sometimes happen. We understand that and we will continue to work such that we alleviate the waiting time by mostly our workers.
We also encouraged those who come into town for commerce, to say go back to your areas earlier so that the working population that must leave at a certain time can be encouraged to ride the buses after 1630hrs while others would have gone back. That we will continue to advertise and through the Ministry of Information, we have been sending out this information so that we can alleviate the waiting period that our people are having.
HON. TOFFA: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his response but I would like to seek further clarification. He did allude to school children, as the Ministry that is responsible for making sure transportation is done properly, what policy or what mechanism is he going to put in place as the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works to make sure that school children are well-catered for so that they have transport for school? I remember back in the day Madam Speaker Ma’am, when it was ZUPCO Omnibus, each school had a bus allocated to them. We are putting children’s lives in danger. These commuter omnibus operators are playing cat and mouse game with children on board, including the citizens. Most important is the child’s best interest and safety. I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister what it is that his Ministry will do in future or right now. On getting the operators registered, what mechanism will he put in place?
Would it not be prudent to suggest or to ask the Hon. Minister to use the transporters who were ably transporting in Bulawayo such as Mtshova-Mubaiwa and Gupta? Before this, they were transporting people in Bulawayo. Is there no way that the Minister could facilitate an easier process for these companies to be registered or is there a problem in that area? Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. J. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I think what she is analysing is allowable under the policy right now. If a school has entered into an agreement with a Commuter Omnibus operator, all we are saying is, that operator has a responsibility to go and register with CMED and they are given a ZUPCO tag that indicate that it is ZUPCO so that the police do not have to worry. We can even put ‘Carrying school children,’ there is no problem about that. All we are saying is = nobody should just go and say ‘I am picking school children’ and because the bus or the omnibus is full of children, the police must give them the right of passage. No, we will not do that but there are schools that have buses which they bought.
There are schools who have gone to ZUPCO and said, ‘because we have children who come from this area to that area, can you allocate us a bus so that in the morning and afternoon, carries our children.’ These are very easy times to organise and parents or school heads have a responsibility to go and negotiate or agree with ZUPCO operators. That, ZUPCO is ready to do because we want our children to be carried separately. In fact, what we have told ZUPCO is that at peak times, have dedicated buses for children and in my menu, they tell me what they do with the children. They also sanitise and when they sanitise school children, they must do it even better than they do it for adults. The social distancing and everything they must do for children, we have said they must do.
However, what we have been dealing with – I was there in Bulawayo last week and I sent the ZUPCO CEO to Bulawayo. They met there in Bulawayo to say ‘we can sanitise this situation but we cannot allow those who do not want to follow the law - that we will not do.’ I know that as I said, at peak hours there are delays. Even last night, we sent out both the police in Bulawayo and other people just to go and see what is happening, who is leaving, who is there at 9 o’clock so that we can know how to deal with the matter. We can withdraw some buses, for instance from inter-city so that we beef up the urban areas but those measures, we will continue to do in order to make sure that our people are not unduly prejudiced. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to ask the Minister and say you started a very good programme but have you ever noticed that when you changed the policy to allow cars to go through the process of registering with CMED, you gave an opportunity to illegal passenger-carrying vehicles which has made it even worse during this COVID period. They have even gone beyond and passed road blocks without anything being done to them. These small cars called mushika-shika are getting to areas which are unreachable because ZUPCO omnibuses fail to reach these areas. The mushika-shika vehicles or illegal transporters are penetrating areas which are not being accessed by the ZUPCO. It has gone worse because of the COVID-19 situation. What are you doing as a Ministry to protect people from these illegal operators who are charging a lot of money for their transportation service?
*HON. J. MOYO: Madam Speaker, there are two sides to this question, it is in two parts. We do not allow mushika-shika or illegal transporters in the urban areas. Commuter omnibuses and buses which go to rural areas do not need to go to CMED or ZUPCO. If the Ministry give them a licence to operate, that is what they use and in that area, nothing was disturbed. However, because in urban areas most of the places are tarred, this is where the mushika-shika flood to and a chaotic situation has been birthed. When they face disturbances in the urban areas, they resort back to the rural areas because there is no interference from the police. I believe that is another issue. As a policy issue, we would like to bring sanity to the urban areas. We do not want people to have any disturbance and they should be ferried to and from their destinations by ZUPCO. Government policy is holistic to the problem. It is not focused on urban areas only but it will also help in the rural areas. Where commuter omnibuses could not reach, we have instructed that all these places be reached. We are purchasing more ZUPCO buses and our intention is that all areas in this country are reached by this particular mode of transportation. Our intention as ZUPCO is to reach all areas. Today we had a meeting. Those who go to the rural areas had come to us saying ZUPCO is actually bringing low cost to our areas of operation. Our answer was an issue of competition. Our intention is to help the people. That is actually competition for them.
*HON. CHIMINA: Supplementary questions Madam Speaker. Thank you Madam Speaker. What the Minister has said is really good, but my question is on those that are going to inspect the buses from CMED. What plans are there to make sure that they engage roadworthy vehicles for transportation of individuals? Some of these buses that we are seeing on the roads are way beyond faulty. They are not road worthy.
*HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. The CMED option is the second quality assurance so that we do not miss anything on that which we are doing. All buses should go to VID from the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development. They are the ones who check and make sure that everything is in place. CMED is well equipped to do all the inspections and make sure that everything is in place.
If you look at the statistics of buses that have killed or injured people because they are being transported by ZUPCO, they are only a few. The reason is that bus drivers that operate with ZUPCO go through testing and it is made sure that these people are fit for such duties. This has helped in the reduction of accidents in the country. We were seeing that in the urban areas we were having a lot of accidents. People were not following the rules and regulations with regard to driving.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. From what the Minister of Local Government and Public Works was saying, what I saw is that as Hon. Members, Hon. Members are behaving as if there is no written policy document to guide us, to help us in the urban transport system. We kindly ask the Minister to help us to say is there a document or it is just the information that he and the Ministry know with regard to that. Is there a policy document that can be handed over to us as Hon. Members of this august House to make sure that we make reference to those policies?
Still on that particular issue - if you ask the Minister to go to Total, Samora Machael and Chinhoyi Street you will see people gathered there, illegal transport operators including police officers or enforcement agents. There are people all over. If he could actually assist us with that particular document to say can we make reference to that particular document? It will assist us to understand and fully acknowledge what we have before us.
*HON. J. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Member with regards to the question on the policy document. The policy document is there. It was actually made a Statutory Instrument and brought to the House. That Statutory Instrument was actually brought to this House during the covid era and information was relayed to the people, the law with regards to that. The policy is there.
That is what the police are making use of to combat the illegal transporters’ scourge that has been brought on the roads. The law is there. Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Supplementary question Madam Speaker. Is there a plan on the Government side to create a dedicated line for passenger transport because efficient and effective transport is not judged by the way the poor get on to it but the way the rich get onto public transport and they are time bound to the rich. Is there a plan to create a dedicated line on our road infrastructure for public transport only so that everyone can be encouraged to go on to public transport which is smooth flowing.
HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. We have been planning about how movement should take place in the urban areas. In the past, we created these one ways and we thought it would alleviate the situation but you will see the number of vehicles that have multiplied in Zimbabwe especially in our urban areas. It is staggering and we are looking at it. We are planning to see whether it can be done but the number of transport systems or transport vehicles that have multiplied over the last few years is staggering.
At the same time, the type of streets that we have apart from doing the one way are narrow enough that to create another public transport system or a lane is very difficult. Bulawayo gives us the best chance but Bulawayo for instance, the really major problem is that Bulawayo City Council, working with the Ministry of Transport and working with our Minister for Provincial Affairs – they have done very well. They designated areas where people must be picked but you find that people do not want to go to those areas.
When they were doing these areas where people could be picked, I think they canvassed very well but people still do not want to go to those areas. There is need for us to look at dedicated lines and we have people who are working on it and see whether it can be done in Harare, Bulawayo and some of the major cities. Chegutu is congested because of the traffic that is transiting through it. We are looking at all these but it is not going to be an easy job. I thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, kindly allow me to check with the Hon. Minister the policy provision relating to metered taxis. Do they also follow under the ZUPCO Bambazonke policy and also in the last week, I was shocked to learn from one of my schools that they were told that their own school bus that parents bought with SDF can no longer ferry school children without going the ZUPCO way. Could the Minister seize this opportunity to clarify the position to the nation? Thank you.
HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. The taxes are not required to go through the ZUPCO way. All taxes that are designated as taxes are licenced by the Ministry of Transport differently from the other transport systems that I have talked about. So, they are exempt. Secondly, the school buses, as I have clarified that in Bulawayo, when I was there last week, the Minister of State and everybody said there was some confusion which we cleared.
On Monday, the meeting that took place in Bulawayo clarified all this and I have just indicated that school buses – there are many schools that have got school buses and those are clearly marked as school buses and they will not be interfered with. What we were dealing with in Bulawayo must be understood as specific things where transporters who are not qualified were now circumventing the system by going to register or going to organise themselves and say we are carrying school children from this school and in between, they were carrying passengers as if it was normal.
That was clarified and if they want to do so, they should go through the route and make sure that they get certified by CMED and register with ZUPCO. They are given a number and they can even be given the school written on their kombi or bus that they will be carrying that. Most of these school buses that are bought by SDAs and SDCs do not carry passengers except school children unless if they are hired. If they are not hired, they carry the school children, come back and park and take back the school children when time comes. That has not been interfered with. If there has been any interference, the clarification is they should not be interfered with. I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Madam Speaker, I am really troubled to say this question on transport has taken a very long time in this House. May the Minister give us a statement after these meetings to say where they are and what is their standing position? It is through question and answer that we have observed that there are things that are happening in rural areas that kombis are not allowed. There is a great understanding and people really need clarification and it will enable us to debate in this House. May he call the Members of Parliament when he engages in these meetings in different towns so that we relate the correct information in our constituencies? A statement may come to help clear the air on the misunderstanding especially in the urban transport system as well as in the rural areas. We might be laughing or taking this thing for granted but this is a very serious issue. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Hamauswa. I agree with you that the Minister should bring a ministerial statement because I see that there is a lot of confusion and he needs to clear the air. This question has taken a long time in this House. All those who asked for supplementary questions will ask when the Minister comes through with a ministerial statement. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is my hope that when the Minister brings in the Ministerial Statement, that there can also be clarity as it relates to passenger insurance. Passenger insurance is that insurance paid at $15 per seat by transporters hoping that Zupco is also paying that insurance so that when someone get injured, they get $1500. When they are deceased, they get US$4000. If that can be embedded in his statement so that we can get to know that the insurance companies are playing their part in the public transport system.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. I think the Minister has taken note of that. Hon. Minister, do you want to say something?
HON. J. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I thought I should give this information to Hon. Members. When this COVID-19 started, the President created a committee which is chaired by the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. That committee has assigned Ministers to different provinces. I am assigned to Bulawayo. When I go and meet with people in Bulawayo, we request the Minister of Provincial Affairs to invite all Members of Parliament so that we can discuss these things and they can take the issues back to their constituencies. We invite the councilors so that they can do it. We also invite political parties so that they can participate. If that has not been happening, I happen to be the coordinator of that committee which sends out Ministers.
The Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development is responsible for Harare Metropolitan, the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education is responsible for Matabeleland North, the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry is responsible for Matabeleland South, the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is responsible for Masvingo, the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services is responsible for Manicaland, Minister of Industry and Commerce is responsible for Mashonaland East, Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is responsible for Mashonaland West and the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage is responsible for Mashonaland Central.
I urge that working with your Ministers of State, we can disseminate this information. There is a sub-committee which deals with transport and logistics, which is chaired by the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. All these issues, obviously we do not sweep them under the carpet. Every week we are told about what ZUPCO is doing and if there are problems, we send people to go and try to solve them. So, I am urging Hon. Members to say let us do this because a lot of what we are doing now, including school children; they have been going to school before and the transport system has been like this since 2019. Because of COVID-19, we now have different protocols which we want you to participate in and I invite all of us to go and participate so that we can solve these issues in-situ in our provinces together with the Ministers that I have mentioned. That is the information I wanted to give out Hon. Madam Speaker.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to comment with reference to Harare. We were invited by the Minister of State and we never had any other meeting. It was going to be nice if we could get a platform as Members of Parliament for us to engage the Ministers and discuss the way forward. As far as I know, Hon. Members were not invited. What we want is that when the Minister goes back to the Cabinet - when the Ministers speaks in this House, we will not be able to argue with him because we will be present when these meetings are done. We have never been invited. That is what we are asking to say, let us rectify that particular point. We should move together with the Minister. We must not find it new to us when he comes and presents something in this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. I am sure the Minister has heard it.
*HON. KARUMAZONDO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What measures does the Government have in place that when they are advertising vacancies in ministries, that both people in rural and urban centres have access to information and have the same opportunities to be employed? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Advertisements for vacancies is done by individual Ministries but forms of advertising that they normally use are put in print media as well as posting on different notice boards and placing notices at district offices. Sometimes they can use electronic media such as radios. Ministries with offices that go down to district level also post the advertisements on notice boards, hence every district gets the advertisements. What we have also witnessed is that once that opportunity is available, it is also being availed in groups. These are not formal groups but they are social media groups and we have seen dissemination using this form.
I have also realised that even when uniformed forces, the army and the police were recruiting, that information was widespread in WhatsApp groups. Applicants were told to go and submit their certificatesdocuments to their respective districts. So Government departments do not use one platform when advertising, they use different platforms like radios, newspapers and television. It also depends on the nature of jobs like if they want directors, they do not look into Government only, sometimes they flight their adverts in newspapers as well. I thank you.
*HON. KARUMAZONDO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is I have observed that the education quality for people in rural areas and in urban areas is different. You find people in rural areas will have to sit for examination more than 3 times for them to attain 5 ordinary level passes, and in most advertisements for police and army they were saying they need not more than two sittings. How can you help the rural people so that they can be employed even if they have many sittings?
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Concerning the issue of many sittings, it depends on the ministry or department, they are the ones who determine the qualifications of people they need at a given time. Police and army have their commissions. We cannot then intervene on that matter on what they require because it is the Commission that determines the qualifications and the number of sittings they accept. For example teachers do not want more than two sittings because they fear that if they recruit people with many sittings, the candidates may find it difficult to train or to pass the required courses. The issue of qualifications is done by the relevant commissions, colleges or ministries - we cannot tell them what to do because they have their own specifications regarding the type of jobs and training they want to offer.
*HON. NYABANI: I heard the Minister saying you advertise in newspapers. I am aware most Hon. Members know Rushinga, we hardly have access to newspapers, there is a network problem, the people there find it difficult to access WhatsApp and phone calls. What are you doing so that the people in Rushinga can access internet, newspapers and WhatsApp?
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Madam Speaker, this issue needs to be looked at so that people in all provinces access information that they require. What surprises me is that sometimes people from Zhamba, my constituency borders Binga and Gokwe, phone me asking the authenticity of some information that they would have received in WhatsApp groups, they will be asking me whether it is true or false, information that I myself am not privy to. I then go and find out and tell them. Given this observation, I can see that in Zimbabwe nowadays even in the very remote areas; they can now access information through various platforms. Furthermore, social media is also doing a lot. The newspapers are also found in social media, such that most people get access to information from the phones that they have in their hands. We can talk and talk but the way we see it is that people are getting information on job advertisements of vacancies from their cellphones. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY SPEAKER ( HON. MAVETERA) in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker I ask that time for Questions Without Notice be extended with 10 minutes.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Unfortunately, I am not able to do that because we have already passed that. I was already on Questions With Notice. If you had done it earlier we would have allowed that to happen, my apologies.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REHABILITATION OF ROADS IN BUDIRIRO, HARARE METROPOLITAN PROVINCE
- HON. MACHINGAUTA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the following roads in Budiriro, in the Harare Metropolitan Province will be rehabilitated; a). Magodo Road in Ward 43 (b) 18th Crescent and 36th Street (c) Tumbuyu and Chipere Crescent (d) 53rd Street, Budiriro 3.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker Maam. I would like to thank Hon. Machingauta for the question. Madam Speaker, Magodo Road is in phase three of the Emergence Road Rehabilitation Programme (ERRP), 18th Crescent and 36th Street are not part of the ERRP but will be covered under routine maintenance using resources from the council and ZINARA. Government has already allocated to Harare City Council, monies both from devolutions funds as well as from ZINARA so that they can do Tumbuyu and Chipere crescent. Then, 53 Street, Budiriro Number three, these roads are to be done by the council. The last two are not part of ERRP and will be done using funds from ZINARA once availed. So, in the ERRP, there are roads that have been taken by Government, there are roads that we have said the local authorities will undertake and they have been given money from ZINARA and council money from devolution and we have indicated them. Then the last two, because they have not been given any money in this ERRP, will be done by council once it is availed ZINARA funds, which are yet to be allocated. I thank you.
HON. CHIMHINI: My supplementary question is why is it that ZINARA is taking too long to disburse funds to local authorities? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am sure that question does not go to the Hon. Minister but it will go to the Hon. Minister of Transport because he is in charge of ZINARA.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is; could the Minister consider publishing the roads that are covered by all the policies that he mentioned, like the ERRP? It will be very good for us to know what is coming up and also any funds issued from devolution for roads and water in Harare and also the ZINARA funds for the Ministry of Transport. If he let us know in advance what is happening, the public will be more settled about it. Thank you.
HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will be glad to do so because it is already captured in this big book. Every road that any Department of State Roads is going to do; the roads that are going to be done by the council and the roads that are going to be done by DDF are all now earmarked and we will be glad to let Members of Parliament know. More particularly, if you check with the councils, we have already written to them because they are the ones who brought these and we just consolidated them in one book.
PUMPING OF WATER TO CABS AND NGUNGUNYANA AREAS IN BUDIRIRO
- 3. MACHINGAUTA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the Marimba water tank is going to start pumping water to CABS and Ngungunyana areas in Budirio, in the Harare Metropolitan Province.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Madam Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Machingauta for the question. There is always pumping to the reservoirs from Monday to Friday. However, due to high demand than supply, low lying areas quickly get limited water supplies, leaving high lying areas dry. We have therefore, resorted to rationing the supplies to effect an equitable distribution of the water supplies. That is the reason why sometimes certain areas in those areas are not getting enough water. I thank you.
CLOSING DOWN OF OLD STABLES MARKET BY THE CITY HEALTH DEPARTMENT
4 HON. MARKHAM asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to explain to the House: a) How the Old Stables Market was closed down by the City Health Department under suspicious circumstances which saw the market only operating for a year despite the fact that it was by far the most sanitary and Covid-19 compliant market in Harare;
- b)whether in closing the market, the City Health Department took into account the fact that the market had paid requisite fees and complied with various licences when approached by the City, an indication of their willingness to comply with legal requirements;
- c)whether all other markets in Harare`s northern suburbs are legally compliant; and
(d) to further clarify whether there have been any audits of all business activities in areas around the Mashonaland Turf Club/City of Harare, particularly those associated with the selling off and mortgaging of land and buildings when, in essence, such land is lease hold property.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Markham for bringing a question, which is in a, b, c and d parts. I will answer one by one. The first question is how the old stables market was closed down by the City Health Department under suspicious circumstances, which saw the market only operating for a year despite the fact that it was by far the most sanitary and COVID – 19 compliant market in Harare.
The response I have is that Stables Market was given the green light to start operating on the 1st April, 2021. This followed inspections that were done to check if they complied with the set health standards and easing of the COVID-19 restrictions. So it is now operating.
Madam Speaker, as I have already said, they did not pay for licencing but paid an application fee for the licence. They were given the procedures to follow and they are still to comply with the regulations on change of use of regulations. What I understand is that they were asked to pay for the application of the fee but they have not paid for the license.
- c) The response to the Hon. Member is that there are 22 designated market sites that have been properly allocated and they have a data base. However, there are others which are operating illegally that require legal enforcement.
- d) Madam Speaker, an audit has not been done and this morning, we were in a workshop with all the departments of the City of Harare. We are sure that with the local authority digital service that we now want to enforce, that audit will be done.
INFORMATION ON DECEASED ESTATE STAND NO. 37 IN POMONA TOWNSHIP
- HON. MARKHAMasked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House:
- a)why stand No. 37 from a deceased estate in the Pomona Township which was demarcated as a park for residents recently had some developmental structures set up despite the fact that it was initially leased and later sold in 2019 to a company called Lagrange, amid objections and offers to run and lease the park by residents which were ignored;
- b)to confirm whether an audit has been conducted by the City Valuations Office and also whether an asset register has been compiled for the period 2010 to 2021;
- c)what measures have been put in place to collect the outstanding debt of $5.5 billion owed to City of Harare for the period ending November 2019 and to further elaborate why this debt has been ignored for so long;
- d)why people who have not paid their bills since the days of Minister Chombo to date have not been brought to book; and
- e)whether the act of writing off the above debt is not an abuse of office and if so, to state who authorised it and under what statute.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORK (HON. J. MOYO): Once again, thank you Madam Speaker.
- a)Madam Speaker, the file for the stand Number 37 Pomona Township is with the Harare Metropolitan Police under investigation. Therefore, I was not able to access this file because Harare Metropolitan police is working with the national police on investigations of that nature.
- b)Madam Speaker, Land Bank has not yet been concluded. Lease data base needs clean up, lease renewals and reviews are in progress and I want to assure the Hon. Member that given the local authority digital service that we are now saying Harare all your departments have to do, I am sure all these will be excavated. We have good evidence from Mutare where this was done and the city is now running very properly including land issues.
- c)Madam Speaker, the 5, 5 billion debt is as at 28 February 2021 and not November 2019 as the question suggests. We are billing an excess of two billion dollars with the new tariffs in the budget. That is what the city is telling us. So, it is not that it has been ignored for long but it just shot up very sharply from January 2021. Efforts to collect over the years have been made and as you know, these are exchange transactions. Service delivery has been poor and residents have been resistant to pay.
Legal process to prosecute and bring to book rates defaulters normally take longer than usual because of the various steps that council has to take. Again, council would only use that as a last resort effort. The hope has been that mending the relations through public relations campaigns, timeous billing, efficient billing, delivery service, delivery improvement and stakeholder engagement will get the bill rolling in encouraging residents to pay.
Current efforts being made are water disconnection, final demands and summons. On top of the agenda is the resuscitation of service delivery. Again, I want to assure the Hon. Member and this august House, I am quite convinced the steps that we are taking will see us collect most of our bills. If I can give you an example of what has happened by implementing the system that I am talking about in Mutare and the success that we have got.
Two years ago, Mutare was collecting at 47% within six months and when they started implementing this LADS system, they are now at 85%. Results have been that it is the only local authority which has paid all loans to Government; it has paid all the ZIMRA debt, ZINWA, all the pension arrears and is up to date. Not only are they up to date in their operations, they have now invested $US500 000 in investments and keeping a cash outlay of $US200 000 physical and this is because of a system that we think will help Harare.
So, I want to assure the Hon. Member that the narration that I have given, while it lacks the assurance that we can collect, we want to walk with them on a journey that will transform the billing system and therefore the service delivery system of Harare.
(d) Madam Speaker, the answer is - the council has to bring them to book once they know all the issues and we think that the system will help us.
(e) The Hon. Member knows I am not responsible for authorising it and those who bring people to book are a responsibility of another Minister. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. Before I ask, I just want to thank the Minister for his straight and honest answers. I would also like to thank Dr. Chonzi from the City of Harare who sorted out stable market. My point there is that different markets have been treated differently.
I would like to ask the Minister if the Stand or Plot that is being investigated which is now a development, which is currently getting sewerage works going on, boreholes being drilled and other services, can that not be put on hold until investigations are completed? The second thing is, if I may just mention to the Minister that I am very pleased that Mutare is on the right track. I would like to ask the Minister if he could also consider the…
THE SPEAKER: You are not connected Hon. Markham.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, as a final point, I would like to say to the Minister, instead of debt-collecting, if they could consider advertising the debt and who owes them how much money, which will get people jumping around. I thank you.
HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Well, when we have investigations the manner that we are having, what one would shy away from doing is taking arbitrary decisions. What I can do is speed up that investigation. We also have a parallel system that is chaired by the Hon. Vice President on dysfunctional urban settlements and we are also looking at the same things. We hope that one way or the other we will come to a situation where we can resolve Stand No. 37 that the Hon. Member has asked to resolve. However, we do not want to take arbitrary decisions because you know we will be taken to court if we do not do it procedurally and we want to follow the law.
The issue of advertising those who are not paying, we can take that route but I think the first thing is to clean up the billing system that Harare has. They have been using software which, by their own admission, they had already made a resolution in council to say this ICT is not working and they had already requested that the Harare Institute of Technology (HIT) should come and look at that system so that they can get help. Today, the Vice Chancellor and his Dean who is responsible for innovation in the University were with us together with Harare City Council and the President said yesterday, ‘do everything to make sure that Harare gets on a digital system that can look at all the systems, including their valuation rolls, billing system, and Geographical Information Systems (GIS) for instance, which can indicate to us what services are not being given in what areas at the touch of a button.
Right now if you went and ask where water leakages or sewerage outbursts are, they will not know and yet in Mutare as I said, you can now at the touch of a button, with the help of HIT, they now know where things are not right. So, let us give ourselves an opportunity so that we can correct Harare and if correcting Harare situation means we must publicise those who are not paying, then we should be able to do so. Thank you Madam Speaker.
PROGRESS IN ASSEMBLING ZUPCO LOCKDOWN KITS BY LOCAL BUS ASSEMBLING COMPANIES AND REINTRODUCTION OF ZUPCO ALL-TERRAIN BUSES WHICH PLY RURAL ROUTES
- (V)HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House the progress made in assembling ZUPCO lockdown kits by local bus assembling companies as well as the reintroduction of ZUPCO all-terrain buses which ply rural routes.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. J. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank you Hon. Mpofu for the question. Hon. Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to facilitate the assembling of buses locally and has engaged partners as initiated through the bilateral agreements in the case of one bus-assembling plant, they have already gone into a non-disclosure agreement with a Belarusian company so that the knock-down kits that come from Belarus can be assembled here in Harare.
It will give us an opportunity to beneficiate using local resources. The last time we were doing it, we were using local materials of up to 40%, that means we can increase the number of buses or knock-down kits that we bring from a country instead of bringing a completely build-up bus.
Negotiations with these partners are however, still to be concluded. The buses that are being manufactured and assembled in Zimbabwe have specifications that make them suitable for all terrain and with the negotiations that we have done, we are ensuring that those buses can actually ply rural roads.
(V)HON. M. M. MPOFU: We want a time frame from the Minister to tell us when because in the rural areas, people are suffering. They are being charged exorbitant prices by these other non-ZUPCO buses. He should tell us the time frame.
HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Yes, as I said the negotiations are going on and we hope that we can conclude them this year so that assembling can start this year. However, there are buses which are coming in the country through the private sector which we hope can continue to ply in the rural areas. The more we get more ZUPCO buses that are only capable of plying in the urban areas, we try to release some of them to rural areas. ZUPCO is having some buses right now going to rural areas but they are not enough out there and we hope that as the President has said, we need ZUPCO to be capitalised up to the tune of 2 000 buses so that we can use it in the urban areas as well as in the rural areas. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. GABBUZA: Can the Minister indicate why it is so difficult to just capacitate the local companies that already used to manufacture buses like Damar, Zambezi Coach Works and Trinity Engineering. These were into the manufacture of car bodies. Why is it not easier to do that than bring in a Belarus company that is still negotiating? It will take years.
HON. J. MOYO: Madam Speaker, it is a known fact that we do not manufacture engines in this country. So Damar was getting the engines from Holland and therefore to get engines from Belarus where we would have made an agreement with a Belarusian manufacturing company for engines is still the same type of trade partnerships and they have negotiated with AVM which used to be called Damar so that they can manufacture locally, but what is critical is that they did not just enter into agreement to bring in engines from there, but the specifications that Damar was able to impress on the company in Belarus to say if we are going to service this market, you need a bus of this type and that type that can ply in the urban areas and we need another bus type which can ply in the rural areas.
That to us is very critical, but for now, the company that is assisting us, that has the financial muscle to do so is from Belarus but we welcome any bus company that wants to come and bring knock-down kits and the President has said it is better to bring knock=down kits because we can use a lot of materials that are locally produced in order to lower the cost of bringing a completely built up deed. It also gives our people the jobs that they need and the service also is enhanced.
Yes, I agree Trinity Engineering, what used to be Leylands which is now Quest in Mutare, all these can do the job but what has been the bull in the China shop is the foreign currency that is required and that is why you have to have these packages such that we are going with Belarus. Thank you Madam Speaker.
MEASURES TO CAPACITATE DEAF COMMUNITIES TO ATTAIN UNIVERSITY QUALIFICATION
- HON. MACHINGAUTA asked the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
- To inform the House how many deaf people have attained degree level education in Zimbabwe since independence and;
- What measures are in place to capacitate the deaf communities to attain university qualifications?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Our response on how many deaf people have attained degree level education in Zimbabwe; I wish to start by explaining Government policy on inclusive education. It is Government policy that all people irrespective of sex, age, race, colour, ethnicity, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social, original, property, birth as well as person with disabilities, migrants, indigenous people and children and youth, especially those in vulnerable situations or other status, have access to inclusive, equitable quality education and lifelong learning opportunities.
In support of inclusive education, the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development has ensured access to higher and tertiary education by people with disabilities. Universities had an enrollment of 356 students with disabilities inclusive of those who are visually impaired, physically challenged, hearing impaired, mentally challenged as well as those with albinism and speech impairment. The Ministry is also supporting development of learning materials for the disabled.
We have not had specifically any deaf students enrolling at our universities since independence. However, seven deaf students have now graduated; four from UZ and three from Great Zimbabwe University. However, 24 students are currently in stream; 10 are at Women’s University, 13 are at the University of Zimbabwe and we have one at Africa University. Our point, Madam Speaker, is basically that we are improving on this as it has been a challenging area for higher education.
On the second question, Madam Speaker, several deliberate efforts have been undertaken by the Government of Zimbabwe under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Dr. Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa. He directed the setting up of the Language Institute at Midlands State University. Through this institute, MSU is translating important documents into sign language including the Constitution, COVID booklets and National Development Strategy. They are going on to translate all technical books also at this national language institute.
MSU is also providing short courses in sign language. Staff at Clay Bank Hospital in Gweru have been trained in sign language specifically to cater for the deaf. Furthermore, MSU has appointed specialised lecturers in sign language and is sensitising the community about learning sign language at MSU.
The University of Zimbabwe and Great Zimbabwe University are also providing courses for the deaf. Gwanda and Lupane State Universities are currently working on modalities to teach the deaf. Other private universities are also supporting Government efforts to ensure the deaf attain university education; Reformed Church University in Masvingo, Women’s University in Africa and Africa University. I thank you Madam Speaker.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 36 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 37 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
CENTRE FOR EDUCATION, INNOVATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT BILL [H. B. 1A, 2020]
Thirty Seventh Order read: Consideration Stage: Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development Bill [H. B. 1A, 2020].
Amendment to Clause 7 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
CENTRE FOR EDUCATION, INNOVATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT BILL [H. B. 1A, 2020]
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Madam Speaker, I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I move that the House reverts to Order of the Da, No. 14.
HON. DR. KHUPE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON THE ANALYSIS OF ZINARA’S AUDITED ACCOUNTS FOR THE YEARS 2017 AND 2018 AND THE 2017 FORENSIC AUDIT REPORT
Fourteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Analysis of ZINARA’s Audited Accounts.
Question again proposed.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for awarding me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion that was tabled as a Report by the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee, Hon. Dube. I realise that this report has been pending for quite some time without being tabled. I think even when it was tabled, you heard both sides of the House acknowledging that this is a good thing that this report finally had to see the doors of the National Assembly. You can see that 2017/2018, is when the Forensic Audit Report was carried out. I want to acknowledge the work that the Auditor General has done, not only on the ZINARA issues but also on other reports that she has produced for Parliament, Government and for the nation to see what is the pattern of activities in terms of financial handling in ministries and parastatals.
It took long for the Public Accounts Committee to come up with this report because the Forensic Audit Report was voluminous in nature, and in order to pick up some of the issues and also to have a series of sessions in terms of oral evidence with the officials from ZINARA of which most of the officials complied in coming up to the oral evidence session - it was not very easy for us to come up with this particular report because the issues that we unpacked in that report, some of them were shocking. Negligence in terms of just following the laid down procedures was not available for such an institution like ZINARA, with the volumes of amounts of work that we expect for the money that they received to be generated and also to develop the nation - it was like a shock. We were surprised that we could not find information in terms of how one would carry out activities. You will get to know where ladies were being sent to saloons and allowances being paid, the lack of accountability, the lack of conformity in terms of even the simplest document, the Public Finance Management Act for an institution like ZINARA Madam Speaker, it was really a surprise for the Committee.
Some of the avenues that we travelled in terms of getting information, one would not want to go through the same terrain in terms of conformity. We need to develop a culture of accountability. We need officials to be held to account for their actions and the longer we take in not actually holding them to account, more will be perpetrated in various institutions like ZINARA and other entities. It goes without saying that even in Ministries you would find that the Public Finance Management Act is actually being broken left, right and centre without even the basics being implemented. You really wonder on whether when one wakes up in the morning going to work, are they actually serious in terms of executing their responsibilities.
I speak this as one of the longest serving Members of the Public Accounts Committee and having chaired the Public Accounts Committee Madam Speaker, I was shocked and we realised that we needed to speed up in terms of bringing this report to Parliament and also highlight the issue. My further comment is that you will find that in committee reports, committees flag out issues but at the end of it all, if we do not implement the recommendations of committees that are highlighted in the reports, then we will not have done justice to the work that will have been done through a forensic audit. It is not an easy job, once the forensic audit has pointed on issues we need to follow up with implementation. After implementation, we need to review on whether those areas that have been highlighted by the forensic audit have been corrected. Without that, more will be happening. I worry Madam Speaker that the longer it takes, the more problems we are creating for ourselves.
My last point and humble submission Madam Speaker is for the House to quickly adopt this report on the ZINARA forensic audit in its entirety. Follow up needs to be done in terms of what is actually happening. Madam Speaker, even reports which are not part of ZINARA need follow up and there is need to implement recommendations of the committees. The Public Accounts Committee is a post audit committee which actually acts when things have already happened. So I do not see any problems in terms of implementation, because the quicker we get to the implementation, the better because those will be corrective measures in terms of getting things done.
I hope and trust that the Executive and the Minister responsible will be able to act and execute in terms of the recommendations that the Public Accounts Committee came up with after the forensic audit report. It is my humble submission and I pray that the recommendations of the Committee will see the light of the day. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to this PAC domained motion which fills us with a lot of rage, particularly Hon. Speaker if you think of the money that went into the pockets of organised criminals who were taking money for hair dos. That money could have been put in to fix two or three potholes. I also want to add my voice to say this report should be adopted as soon as possible and we are glad that heads rolled at ZINARA. Unfortunately, prisons have not started taking in the chief culprits who were behind the manipulation of the Roads Act in ways and means that have not been seen before.
Hon. Speaker, all our roads in Zimbabwe, most of them are in a sorry state while some people who have been given the mandate to run the organisation were busy violating every principle of the Public Finance Management Act. Madam Speaker, I just want to say these people should be arrested. Let the structural issues …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are no longer audible.
HON. S. BANDA: As has been reported by PAC let them be accountable. Otherwise I am totally emotional because this is disgusting and disturbing. I support that the report be adopted. Thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 6th May 2021.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Order of the Day, Number 15 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 16 has been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. ALUM MPOFU
Sixteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the untimely passing on of the late Member of Parliament for Mberengwa East, Hon Alum Mpofu.
Question again proposed.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I stood to add a few words and pay my tribute to Hon. Allum Mpofu. Hon. Allum Mpofu was a hard worker. He was someone who was committed. We served in the same committee, which is the Media Committee and he also worked with the people of his constituency at heart. He wanted to contribute a lot to the laws that were being put in place in the media field. He was a hard working person. Even though he was not feeling well, he would attend so that there was a quorum. I can say where the Late Hon. Mpofu used to stay, even someone who is fit cannot walk such a distance but he walked from his constituency to work daily. He had his country at heart. Before his death, he had brought in a motion in this august House on patriotism. He was a very patriotic man and did not want people to look down upon themselves irrespective of their totem or origin. He wanted people to love their country and love themselves. He was a hard worker and I realised that during the short period that I knew him. He used to call me munin’ina. Everyone who is younger than him he called him by that and everyone who is older than him he called him mukoma.
He was a very humble man and I learnt a lot of good things from him. For you to be called a leader, you must be a person who listens to the concerns of people and have vision. He was in Parliament not because he just wants to be voted into power but he had the people at heart. He did a lot of programmes in his constituency, including the electrification of his constituency. Before his death, he had bought potato seeds for a project on potato farming. This showed that he had his constituency at heart. It is unfortunate that by the time we debate his motion on patriotism, he will not be here to witness it, but this motion will bring harmony and love amongst Zimbabweans. Zimbabweans must know that a person bathes his own body not the other person and he who sweeps the house is the owner not any other person. You do not expose your weakness to the public but you work hard towards correcting that. No one will do that for you if you are reluctant to do that yourself. I can reiterate again that the late Hon. Mpofu wanted unity and peace. He was very humble.
He has left a very big gap. If he was still alive, our country would move forward. If we go by his words, Zimbabwe will be able to move forward as a country. When we debate his motion, we must learn something from it. I want to thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity that you have given me to debate on this motion.
*HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity that you have given me to add my views in commemorating our hero Hon. A. Mpofu. We were very grieved by the sudden and untimely death of the late Hon. Member. I used to call him nephew because his mother’s totem was moyo. What pained me the most is that the Late Hon. Mpofu was friendly to everybody, regardless of their political affiliation or religion. He worked very hard in Parliament and in the province. We used to meet in Gweru in PCC meetings. He was a very humble person and we lost a very dedicated person. He left behind the gospel of good work, and unity.
I do not remember seeing him arguing with people or saying hate words. He was a man of the people. The Media Committee lost a knowledgeable member and a hard worker. He once worked for ZBC as chief executive officer, and he also worked for SABC. He had valuable contribution and was of value to the Media Committee. I want to say son of the soil, may your soul rest in eternal peace. I thank you.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday 5th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the House adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes past Five o’ clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 4th May, 2021
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. DR. SHAVA): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 8 be stood over until Order of the Day No. 9 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE PARLIAMENTARY LEADERSHIP FOR THE 2030 AGENDA WEBINAR SERIES: COVID-19 RESPONSE - LEAVING NO ONE BEHIND
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Parliamentary Leadership for the 2030 Agenda Webinar Series - COVID–19 Response
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th May, 2021.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE JOINT PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND RECREATION AND THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE STATE OF VOCATIONAL TRAINING CENTRES, THE EMPOWER BANK AND SPORTING FACILITIES
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Joint Portfolio Committee on Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation and the Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th April, 2021.
MOTION
MAINTENANCE OF THE ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE COUNTRY
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the road rehabilitation programme countrywide.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President, I want to appreciate the motion by Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi to bring this motion to this august Senate and appreciate that the President had declared a state of emergency on the state of the roads. However, I want to state that it is important that the President has taken it up to declare the state of emergency but we must accept that the state of the roads which we are in is out of serious poor maintenance. There is no way you can expect our roads to be good when we do not maintain them. We need really to maintain roads from the day they are made. I am actually looking at some of the roads that have been done in terms of the present day emergency.
If you look at the road being done around Sunningdale, it is being done, I am not sure whether there is adequate supervision. There is not even a single sign to show details where people should be going around and getting into Sunningdale. You hardly see the normal etiquette of road makings. The normal etiquette of road making is that there are reasonable detours and there must also be provisions for the watering of roads, especially where there is too much dust. There is also need to have road markings on certain days like holidays.
Honestly, yes we might not have money, but we must do things properly. There is a tendency amongst us, maybe not to consume ourselves in our infrastructure. The whole economy is based on the state of our roads, airways, seaways and lake ways. We cannot transport anything without those roads. Today, the Ministry of Transport, I have been in the Committee of Transport for two terms now, things have just been going down slowly, including Air Zimbabwe. We all have to realise that the roads once they are bad do not just cause road accidents and damage cars, but they kill the people and kill the economy. All what we are talking about the ease of doing business will never be achieved. We will never achieve anything without good infrastructure and people tend to avoid our country when the roads are not good.
However, I am looking at a situation where the President declares how much he is likely to put on the roads. Declaring a state of emergency is good, but we want to know how much is being put to the maintenance of roads. We also appeal to the Government to recruit so many engineers around and help you in quality assurance and probably train them in making roads. They might be casuals until this programme is over but I suggest that it is important that all the civil engineers sitting around who have completed their degrees could be of help because they are literally doing nothing and they might also get some experience with the minimal reasonable payments. It will help our nation to do all the roads. We also need to hire the local contractors; we need to help our contractors in terms of getting some work, especially after this COVID-19 pandemic. If we could have some contractors and probably Government just supplies materials and the contractors supply labour and equipment - probably which we might be short of. We think we might be getting somewhere. I am just coming in the line of putting suggestions in this area where we want to rehabilitate our roads.
There must also be a time frame, to say this emergency starts in June and ends probably in December. If it remains hanging, we might not finish that programme and never start. When we know when it starts and when it ends, then we will also have that supervisory role as Parliament to ensure that work is achieved. I just pray that we get the resources because they are now 3 states of emergency. There is one which is the pandemic, the second one is the floods disaster and this is the third one - the road disaster. So they are three disasters so far; we do not know the fourth one which might come. With all those disasters, I do not know how much should be coming. When disasters are called for, then we should listen and help them. I do not know how much help we are likely to get but we really need to put our efforts on improving our roads, engineering and maintenance of the roads and putting them to the correct standard. With this debate, I appeal to you Mr. President as the President of the Senate, to ensure that our supervisory role is enhanced. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th May, 2021.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I move that we revert to Order of the Day, Number 3 on today’s Order Paper. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
THIRD READING
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 23A, 2019]
Third Order read: Third Reading: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 23A, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I move that the Constitution of Zimbabwe, Amendment (No. 2) Bill, be now read the third time.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Section 328 (5) of the Constitution, provides that a Constitutional Bill must be passed at its last reading in the National Assembly and the Senate by an affirmative vote of two thirds of the Membership of each House. In order to comply with the provisions of Section 328 (5), it is necessary that the number of affirmative votes cast by Members be recorded. I therefore direct that the bells be now rung after which the votes of the Hon. Members will be counted.
[Bells rung]
[House divided.]
AYES 65: Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira Z.F., Hon. Sen. Chidawu M. O., Hon. Sen. Chifamba Jane., Hon. Sen. Chief Chikwaka B. W.M., Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi A., Hon. Sen. Chimutengwende C.C.C., Hon. Sen. Chirongoma J. M., Hon. Sen. Chisorochengwe T., Hon. Sen. Chief Chitanga C. F., Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu Mbasera A., Hon. Sen. Denga P., Hon. Sen. Dube A., Hon. Sen. Dube M. R., Hon. Sen. Femai M., Hon. Sen. Gumpo S., Hon. Sen. Gweshe K., Hon. Sen. Hungwe J. D., Hon. Sen. Hungwe S. O., Hon. Sen. Kambizi E., Hon. Sen. Khupe W., Hon. Sen. Mabika D., , Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe G. C. S., Hon. Sen. Malinga J. T., Hon. Sen. Maluleke M. O., Hon. Sen. Chief Mapungwana A., Hon. Sen. Chief Masendu D. S., Hon. Sen. Mathema C. N. G., Hon. Sen. Chief Mathupula Khumalo M., Hon. Sen. Mathuthu T., Hon. Sen. Matiirira A., Hon. Sen. Matuke L., , Hon. Sen. Mavhunga M., Hon. Sen. Mavima L. D., Hon. Sen. Mbohwa M., Hon. Sen. Mkhwebu A., Hon. Sen., Hon. Sen. Mohadi T. B., Hon. Sen. Moyo G., Hon. Moyo S.K., , Hon. Sen., Hon. Sen. Mpofu S., Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane Khumalo L., , Hon. Sen. Munzverengwi A., Hon. Sen. Mupfumira P., Hon. Sen. Muronzi M., Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa M., Hon. Sen. Muzenda T. V, Hon. Sen. Ndlovu M. D., Hon. Sen. Chief Nechombo Chikukwa L., Hon. Sen. Chief Nembire Nyabvunzi C., Hon. Sen. Chief Ngezi Pasipamire P., Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane Mkhwananzi Z. N., Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema Bwawanda R., Hon. Sen. Chief Ntabeni M., Hon.Chief Nyangazonke Ndiweni V., Hon. Sen. Nyathi R., Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa D.P., Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi T. S., Hon. Sen. Shava F. M, Hon. Sen. Shumba C., Hon. Sen. Chief Siansali Nkatazo S., , Hon. Sen. Timire R., Hon. Sen. Tongogara A. K., Hon. Sen. Tsomondo B.
Tellers: Hon. T.V. Muzenda
NOES 10: Hon. Sen. Chinake V., Hon. Sen. Mpofu B., Hon. Sen. Komichi M., Hon. Sen. Mavetera T., Hon. Sen. Moyo T., Hon. Sen. Eng. Mudzuri E., Hon. Sen. Mwonzora T. Douglas., Hon. Sen. Ndlovu C., Hon. Sen. Phugeni K. and Hon. Sen. Rwambiwa E.
Tellers Hon. Sen. Mavetera and Hon. Sen. T. Mathuthu
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The result of the count is that 65 Hon. Senators have voted in favour of the Third Reading of the Bill and 10 have voted against the Bill. The number of the affirmative votes recorded is not less than 2 thirds of the membership of the Senate. I therefore, declare the final votes in the Senate on the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill of 2021, [H. B. 23A, 2019], to have been in accordance with the provisions of Section 328 (5) of the Constitution.
Bill read a third time.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. President. I want to thank the Hon. Senators for this historic occasion. Historic in the sense that we debated, we came together and voted for a national cause. Historic in that we also were not fixated by the fact that we did a good job in 2013 but we also noticed some errors in that particular Constitution that did not allow us to come up with appropriate legislation in terms of our devolution agenda.
I want to thank Hon. Senators, it now paves the way for us to properly come up with legislation that will give effect to our devolution agenda and this is most welcome. It will ensure that our developmental strategy, our vision 2030 as enunciated by our President, will be realised across the regions.
I am also very elated in that we now can plan for the 2023 elections knowing pretty sure that we have the women’s quota and the youth’s quota – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Mr. President, we have a year and a half to go to the elections and we needed finality in this regard. I am very happy that we can now prepare both as political parties and as Government towards those elections.
I want to congratulate everyone who came to vote and appreciate the effort that has been put by all the Hon. Senators in this regard. I thank you.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Half past Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 18th May, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 4th May, 2021
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE DEPUTY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Centre for Education, Innovation, Research and Development Bill [H. B. 1A, 2020].
PETITION RECEIVED FROM MR. PATROBS DUBE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that on 24th March, 2021, Parliament received a petition from Mr. Patrobs Dube beseeching Parliament to assist in the enforcement of court judgments against the Attorney-General and the Public Service Commission. The petition was deemed inadmissible as it dealt with matters which are outside the jurisdiction and mandate of Parliament. The petitioner was advised accordingly.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. This is a matter of National Interest. Madam Speaker Ma’am, it concerns tobacco farmers. Tobacco farmers are getting a raw deal from merchants. Some of them have delivered their tobacco and for the past one to two weeks, they have not been paid anything. To make matters worse, some of the merchants do not tell the truth to the farmers. Some of the farmers spend days and nights in squalid conditions waiting for their money and with the advent of the COVID-19 pandemic, I feel we are endangering the lives of our farmers. So I plead that these merchants and the responsible Ministry have a look at the whole ordeal which our farmers are suffering from these merchants and if a remedy could be found for these desperate farmers. Madam Speaker, I so submit.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Ndiweni. I advise you to ask a question tomorrow to the responsible Minister.
(v)HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker.
(v)HON. SARUWAKA: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker. Thank you very much for this opportunity. Madam Speaker, I was burning to present this point of privilege the last time Parliament sat but there was a problem with the host. She or he was blocking me, so I think it is an area that you might want to look at where Members who are on virtual are unable to present their points because the host is blocking them. We cannot all fit in the National Assembly. That was my first point I wanted you to consider.
The second point I wanted to raise Madam Speaker, was to do with a murder that occurred in my constituency, where I rise to formally inform the House of the tragic murder of Grade 1 pupils from St Robert Mbaza Primary School in Mutasa Central Constituency on Tuesday, 13th April. The two pupils, Delan and Melisa Benza were on their way to school when they were brutally murdered and their bodies dumped. The police have since arrested two locals for this crime and they have since appeared in court. My condolences to the relatives, Ward 12 community and the nation at large on the sad loss of these two young and innocent lives.
Madam Speaker, the targeting of young defenceless children by murderers presumably for ritual purposes in Zimbabwe seems to be on the rise. Madam Speaker, you would recall this comes hard on the heels of the murder of young Tapiwa Makore in Murewa last year. He was buried headless this year. Last week in Nyika, I am told a five year old was missing and another six year old was murdered. So we are going through a very difficult period where the lives of young people are being lost. It is therefore my appeal that these misfits living among communities must be plucked out
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Saruwaka, we are very sorry about that unfortunate incident and as Parliament, we condemn it but I am urging you to raise a motion on that.
(v)HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker. My point of privilege relates to the unfortunate incidents that happened recently where the Zimbabwe National Army’s helicopter killed two pilots and a technician in the Goromonzi area and in that accident, we also lost one of the first female pilots in the Air Force. Madam Speaker, the accidents involving helicopters of the Air Force have been happening and to that extent, first we want to pay our condolences to our service men and women who are perishing because of these accidents.
Secondly Madam Speaker, I would want the Hon. Minister of Defence and War Veterans to bring a report to the House pertaining to the safety of our service men especially as it relates to these helicopters and the challenges we are facing as a nation pertaining to this issue because one life lost is a precious life that we cannot afford to lose especially at a time when we are not at war. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mushoriwa. We are all very sorry about that unfortunate incident. May the deceased’s souls rest in eternal peace. Also, I think the responsible Ministry is going to constitute a commission of enquiry on that. I do not think the Minister can bring in a report before that commission of enquiry has completed its investigations. So we will wait for the commission of enquiry to complete investigations and then maybe from that we may ask the Minister to bring the report to Parliament. Thank you.
(v)HON. NDUNA: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker. Thank you Madam Speaker. I request in the advent of the COVID pandemic that the Minister of Local Government and Public Works who is in charge of licencing of bars and beerhalls comes to the House and gives a Ministerial Statement and proposal for bars and beerhalls to operate like bottle stores, seeing that it has been a year they have been operating but they are still paying for licences and also are now having challenges with their labour. It is my hope and view, and may I also make a clarion call for the Minister responsible for licencing these bars and beerhalls to alleviate the plight of the owners of these businesses before they go under by allowing them to operate as bottle stores so that at least…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, I am advising you to raise a question tomorrow to the responsible Minister. Hon. Members, we will give you time tomorrow to ask your points of privilege. The Minister wants to go somewhere for some business, so please bear with us on that. We will give you time tomorrow Hon. Toffa and Hon. Masango.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 2 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF VIRTUAL STANDING ORDERS
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker, I rise to move that:
WHEREAS Section 139 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that the proceedings of the Senate and the National Assembly are regulated by rules known as Standing Orders which are made by the Houses individually or jointly on the recommendation of the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders,
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of the Constitution, this House resolves that the virtual Standing Orders be adopted.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 2 to 17 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 18 has been disposed of.
HON. TOFFA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION ON THE REPORT OF THE FAMILIARISATION TOUR OF ZIMBABWE’S BORDER POSTS ON THE ORDER PAPER
HON. DR. NYASHANU: Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that the motion on the Report of the Familiarisation Tour of Zimbabwe’s Border Posts which was superseded by the end of the Second Session be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order No. 75.
HON. DR. KHUPE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: Madam Speaker, I move that we revert back to Order of the Day No. 13.
HON. TOFFA: I second.
HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. My point of order relates of the business of the House. My understanding is that there is supposed to be Business of the House Committee and the way - the manner in which the Business of the House is being conducted is half-hazard, such that there is no proper coordination. I am just wondering whether the business of the House Committee – does it still sit or things just emerge in the House as Hon. Members come in? Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have raised a valid point and I have taken note of that. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, on the point made by Hon. Mushoriwa, can I seek clarification to that point?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Clarification on what Hon. Gonese?
HON. GONESE: Hon. Mushoriwa raised the issue as to whether the business of the House Committee which is mandated in terms of the Standing Orders is arranging business, not just for the day but also for the Senate. You have indicated that you have just taken note, and my question is that I think Hon. Mushoriwa has specifically asked as to whether the business of the House Committee is meeting and whether it is in charge of arranging the business of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, you are not audible.
HON. GONESE: Hon. Speaker, I was just asking if you could perhaps put some pressure. Yes Madam Speaker, I can hear you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Business of the House Committee is still meeting but the Chief Whips have to liaise. Unfortunately today, they are all not in the House.
HON. GONESE: I understand. Let us hope that in the future we will have some order. Thank you Madam Speaker for your response.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 14 and 15 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 16 has been disposed of.
HON. T. MOYO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2021 VIRTUAL PARLIAMENTARY HEARING AT THE UNITED NATIONS UNDER THE THEME “FIGHTING CORRUPTION TO RESTORE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT AND IMPROVE DEVELOPMENT PROSPECTS
HON. MAVENYENGWA: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House takes note of the Report of the 2021 Virtual Parliamentary Hearing at the United Nations under the theme “Fighting corruption to restore trust in government and improve development prospects held on the 17th and 18th February 2021.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mavenyengwa, you are not audible. I think we lost him completely.
(v) *HON. CHINOTIMBA: Point of order Madam Speaker Ma’am.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Member?
HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, I think that those Members who want to debate on a motion should be in the House physically rather than to be on virtual. Already we have lost another speaker Hon. Chingosho and now we have lost debate from Hon. Mavenyengwa. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chinotimba. That is a very noble idea and I agree with you. Those who would want to debate on a motion, we encourage them to come in the House because we have network challenges in many areas. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MUTAMBISI: I move that the House reverts to Order of the Day Number 14 on Today’s Order Paper.
HON. T. MOYO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROVISION OF NON-MONETARY BENEFITS FOR ALL GOVERNMENT WORKERS
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I move the motion standing in my name;
That this House;
APPLAUDING the commitment by Government to provide salary increases to civil servants from time to time to mitigate the impact of inflation caused by the vicissitudes of the economic environment;
COGNISANT that the resources provided by the Government are always limited and do not meet the expectations of the civil servants and other public officers;
RECALLING that in a bid to improve the conditions of service for its workers, Government has passed resolutions on the need to introduce non-monetary benefits as a way of augmenting the paltry salaries that civil servants earn to cushion their livelihoods under the prevailing harsh economic conditions;
NOW THEREFORE, CALLS upon the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Public Service Commission to provide non-monetary incentives to all Government workers, the majority of whom have nothing to take home at retirement to show for their illustrious services as civil and public officers;
FURTHER RECOMMENDS that non-monetary benefits be given in the form of land and personal vehicles for those who have been in the civil service for periods in excess of twenty-five years.
HON. T. MOYO: I second.
HON. MADHUKU: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me this opportunity to move this motion on non-monetary incentives for civil servants. By way of introduction, all over the world, governments are grappling with the provision of high quality public goods necessary to support economic growth and development. Such services include health, education, security and many others offered by civil servants. However, the effectiveness and quality of these services depends on the performance of people who deliver them, that is the civil servants. Motivation is very critical for frontline public officials who make great sacrifices for their country and also achievement of SDGs which envisage the world where everyone has access to basic public goods depends on a motivated workforce.
The Zimbabwean Government has some constitutional obligations to its civil servants and these are; the Government is sensitive to Section 65 (1), (4) and (5) (a) that talk of fair labour practices and reasonable wage, just, equitable and satisfactory conditions of work and also engagement in collective bargaining.
The National Development Strategy Number 1 (NDS 1) - this agenda also clearly articulates that achievement of NDS1 depends on efforts and work of a motivated workforce in the public sector and that regular reviews of remuneration will be prioritised to maintain real wage levels. This is paragraph 237. Therefore, the Second Republic is dealing with these issues even for Vision 2030.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me refer to the research which was carried out by the Global Centre for Public Service Excellence (GCPSE). It says that low motivation is the major factor in Africa’s human resource crisis and the reasons proffered as to why the morale of public service employees is declining are; reduced salaries, insufficient equipment or resources to effectively perform duties, dysfunctional Government budgets and also pressure to remain effective whilst resources plus costs are cut. Understaffed workplaces plus insufficient resources lead to service failures.
Let me also look at one of the needs theories and this one was propounded by Abraham Maslow; the needs theory says that motivation is the result of a person’s attempt to fulfilling five basic needs which are; physiological, safety, social, esteem and self-actualisation. So in all humans and in order to live a worthwhile life, basic needs like food, water, shelter, warm clothes, rest, safety and security must be met first before psychological needs like love and belongingness and esteem needs are met. According to Maslow, these needs are very critical because they can create internal pressures in a person. Besides this, they can also create a disequilibrium that can negatively influence a person’s behaviour at work. This therefore affects commitment, efficiency and effectiveness.
Let me look at Zimbabwe Government’s challenges to lucratively pay its civil servants. Like many other governments worldwide, Zimbabwe is facing some economic challenges like the decades long economic sanctions that have greatly disabled and incapacitated Zimbabwe. Besides these, we have faced many natural disasters including cyclones - Cyclone Eline, Idai and so on. Currently, we are facing the COVID-19 pandemic. Consequently, alarming gaps in remuneration and other packs exist between public and private sector employees despite similar or comparable educational qualifications, hence the need to try to pursue and incorporate the non-monetary incentives option to augment meager salaries.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me point out that this option is not meant to put a stop or a comma to salary reviews but what are non-monetary incentives? These are rewards that are not directly associated with financial means. These are innovative non-financial incentive schemes that have the potential to help the Government raise the performance in a cost effective manner. These incentives should be envy-inducing in order to be valuable to employees. An effective incentive package should have the following characteristics; it should be realistic, have clear objectives, fair, equitable as well as reflect the needs of employees and also include both financial and non-financial components.
Why non-monetary incentives or benefits? It is because they focus on building and emotional connection with employees. Besides this, they also enhance employee engagements, loyalty and job performance. Individual behaviour and motivation can be greatly influenced by alternative and cost-friendly non-financial motivating factors. It has been noted that employees’ expectations are much higher these days. Employees want to do things and want to have things. They want something tangible they can always remember in life even after retirement. This is very critical Madam Speaker Ma’am, hence the claim that we have to look for these non-monetary incentives option.
Let me look at the proposals for civil servants non-monetary benefits. These may include but not limited to portions of farm land for agricultural purposes, mining syndicates, also Housing schemes. Let me add here that these housing schemes can be monthly contributions made by civil servants so that they own something and have something under their roof when they leave work.
We are also talking about a meaningful and robust contributory health scheme and under this we are talking of one that nearly or wholly covers 100% of all health related costs, including medical consultations and all procedures by doctors and drugs. A scheme that is acceptable even by private specialist. One that is completely silent about shortfalls. This is the scheme Madam Speaker, which civil servants are yearning for, a life scheme that is usable and friendly, a robust one which can be used even after when one has retired from work, claiming for a scheme which continues to be useful and covering the health needs of civil servants. Madam Speaker, this is because when one leaves work, he or she is now in more need of such assistance as one will not be having a monthly salary. As one ages I think there are more health problems which are cropping up in one’s life,hence the need for this robust medical scheme, one that does not drive retirees into abject poverty and destitution.
We are also talking about a comprehensive funeral cover, Madam Speaker, and also a disability cover, a once off easily accessible duty free vehicle scheme, free or subsidised accommodation, water, electricity, daily transport costs to work and from work for all those not staying at their work places. I am also proposing free or discounted parking and tollgate fees and also availing domestic goods and programmes like solar projects. I am talking about such schemes where civil servants, if they have or amass these things, they will be useful even after leaving work.
I am also talking about voucher schemes, free WiFi, especially at work places because the use of wifi and these gadgets is no longer a luxury. After all, many of these civil servants use wifi at work to enhance their effectiveness in the delivery of services. So we are talking about free wifi at work, access to other programmes like the Presidential Inputs Schemes, inputs for those with small fields. I think, Madam Speaker, what we are talking about here is that if such schemes are availed to civil servants, it is also improved food security. So it is critical that we have an extension of these programmes to these civil servants.
Madam Speaker, after having said this, let me conclude and say that this motion is aiming at enhancing or improving the performance and efficiency of civil servants and also a motivated civil service produces better results. So we are trying to aim and ensure that all civil servants who are front line workers who work so hard for their country and make great sacrifices and sometimes take their meager salaries and supplement what the Government is doing, are helped. So many times we have seen a lot of these civil servants taking their meager salaries to ensure that they perform their work to the best of their abilities, subsidising Government. So in this respect, Madam Speaker, we are saying let us look at some of these non-monetary incentives so that we can help motivate them to effectively carry out their duties.
Madam Speaker, I am not saying from the list I have given let us adopt all of these recommendations, but we can select some incentives falling within the budgetary capabilities of our Government. These can be considered. I have already said that we are very much cognisant of the fact that our Government is incapacitated, there are so many challenges but we can look at some of those which we can make use of in order to motivate the civil service, our front line workers, most of whom are even actually prone to COVID-19 in the performance of their duties. So Madam Speaker, it is my call that we look at some of these incentives. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wish to second the motion raised by Hon. Madhuku on the importance of non monetary incentives for civil servants who include but not limited to teachers.
Madam Speaker, it is prudent that the Zimbabwean Government, in addition to the salaries which are paid to all civil servants, should be provided with non-monetary incentives. This is done to motivate the workers. We are aware that the salaries of most Government workers to them do not meet their requirements and as a result some of the teachers have propounded what they call incapacitation theories. It is a way of pushing the Government to address their salary discrepancies.
Now it is my call Madam Speaker, to support the motion raised by Hon. Madhuku. Motivation of workers is very important indispensible and significant in a number of ways. I will make this quotation – ‘employee motivation is key to any organisation’s success’. It is the level of commitment, drive and energy that a company’s workers bring to their role every day. Without it, companies may experience reduced productivity, lower levels of out output and it is likely that the company will fall short of reaching important goals. We have noticed that civil servants, particularly teachers, are demotivated and according to the hierarchy of needs theory, it is important that Government employees be motivated by being given such incentives. For those workers to attain the highest level of actualisation - there is need for the Government to give them free monetary incentives.
These incentives include the following: I need to applaud the Zimbabwean Government for allowing civil servants to import duty free cars and that is one of the incentive that we have witnessed that those incentives are being given to civil servants especially teachers to import cars free of duty. Another way of motivating teachers is to allocate them stands in urban cities. They are going to acquire those stands at no cost. Those stands which have got value, title deeds and they can use the stands as a way of accessing loans to construct or to do other things. That is one way of motivating our civil servants.
There is need for us parliamentarians to advocate for housing for all civil servants by year 2030 if such a thing can happen. I will repeat, housing for all civil servants by 2030 whereby the Government can make a deliberate effort to provide decent housing for civil servants by year 2030 as we fulfill the President’s vision of a middle income economy. By middle income economy, we would expect all civil servants to have been provided with decent accommodation and it is my clarion call that those civil servants should be provided with decent housing. I am happy that the Ministry of Housing is making some deliberate efforts to provide housing for every Zimbabwean in Zimbabwe so that by 2030, everyone will have house ownership.
Another way of motivating our workers is through the implementation of the Land Audit Report. It was finalised and what is left is to implement. I am aware that in the Midlands Province, 560 farms are earmarked for resettlement of farmers. Among those people who are going to be prioritised in terms of allocation of land. I am talking of Midlands Province because I come from the Midlands Province. All Government employees in the Midlands Province and other provinces should be prioritised in the allocation of arable land for productivity. That is very crucial Madam Speaker as a way of motivating our workers.
There must be title for that kind of land. I think the 99 year leases should be bankable whereby civil servants who are going to be beneficiaries of such land are able to use that land as a title to acquire loans or anything that will bring about productivity to their families. It is a proposal and another suggestion is that children of civil servants, particularly children of teachers, should be exempted from payment of tuition fees especially those attending Government or council schools.
I am aware that if you are a university lecturer, at that particular university - I will give an example of my children. If they attend the University of Zimbabwe, they will be exempted from tuition fees because I happen to be a senior lecturer at the University of Zimbabwe. The same would apply to teachers. Those children of teachers attending schools where their parents are teaching should be exempted from payment of tuition as a way of motivating those teachers.
I will now turn to civil servants in rural areas. There is need for hardship allowances for such teachers and civil servants. Most of the civil servants prefer to work in Harare and Bulawayo and all those major cities and most of the teachers who are deployed to rural areas just work for a few months then they transfer to areas that are proximity to towns and cities. As a way of encouraging workers to prefer to be deployed to rural areas, I suggest that a kind of an allowance be paid to such civil servants as a way of motivating them.
In conclusion, the motion is very important in the sense that once civil servants have access to non-monetary incentives, that is a way of motivating them. We would have met expectations of Maslow the psychologist who talks of the hierarchy of needs theory and that brings about job satisfaction to the civil servants and that is very important particularly in bringing about productivity in ending what is called incapacitation by civil servants. That has to be implemented if we want to satisfy the needs of our works in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would want to thank Hon. Madhuku for the motion that he has moved and I also want to thank Hon. Moyo for his debate. Firstly, I want to agree with the two Hon. Members that our civil servants and public servants are getting meager salaries. I am glad that this motion has been moved, primarily because it brings open what we have been hearing over the past two years. We have been hearing that the Government is making a surplus budget and we have been hearing sentiments from the Executive sometimes that the civil servants who are crying that they are incapacitated, are there to derail Government efforts. Madam Speaker, this motion lays bare the real truth. The truth of the matter is that our civil servants are facing huge challenges. It is actually true that if you talk to any “hwindi” or any other person who did not go to school, they actually laugh at the plight of our civil servants. When we grew up, working for Government was a noble thing. It was something that many people yearned for.
Madam Speaker, my only point of departure from Hon. Madhuku is that civil servants do require non-monetary issues but the most important thing that civil servants require is a salary which can actually help them to live a normal life. They need to be paid adequate salaries. This is what reminds you that this should actually be the centre piece of this motion.
Civil servants have been complaining. I remember teachers complaining that all they simply want is a salary which equates to what they used to earn during the US dollar era converted to the RTGs equivalent. That is the cry of the teachers, nurses and every civil servant. For us to argue to say that non-monetary incentives should be given in lieu of adequate salaries, for me it is not good enough. It is not good enough Madam Speaker because civil servants are not homogenous. They are individuals with different taste, goals and ambitions. If you give civil servants, for instance, land to farm, others do not want to farm but want to farm in OK. The best thing that we should do as Parliament is to make sure that civil servants are awarded at least at the same level that they were given before the introduction of the RTGs or before the introduction of the Statutory Instrument that wiped out their salaries.
Madam Speaker, salary is the biggest motivating factor. Looking at the results, first it was the Grade 7, the A’ Level and now the O’ Level. There has been a decline in the pass rate. Most of the students that are passing are not passing because they are being taught at schools but because they have been doing private lessons. There is a saying that if you pretend to be paying your workers, they also pretend to be working. This is the situation that is happening in Zimbabwe. Our civil servants are just going to work as a routine. They are not happy Madam Speaker. If you look not very far away - look at Parliament staff, are they happy? The answer is no. We have got professionals; people that went to school and some to the level of doctorate who are at this Parliament but are earning meager salaries; salaries that cannot even compare with someone who is a messenger in other organisations.
We now have workers who are earning less than US$200. How can we have a civil servant working for that little money? Civil servants are supposed to be the oil in the engine of the Government. These are the people that are supposed to keep the engine running. If you pretend not to see the plight of civil servants, then we will not go forward. It is unfortunate that as we debate this motion, those civil servants who were crying for lack of capacity, the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services has been busy out there threatening them. How would you threaten a hungry person? How would you threaten a hungry civil servant? It is like threatening your own child. There is no food in the house and there is nothing to drink and you take a stick and start beating that child to say let us go and weed the fields. It is unfair.
In my humble submission Madam Speaker, Hon. Madhuku had actually observed the correct position. Our civil servants are not properly remunerated. However, your solution of non-monetary benefits in place of real, tangible salary; to me it should have actually come as a complementary. Your motion should have advocated for adequate remuneration for our civil servants and thereafter we go for the non-monetary to support a proper salary, a salary that a civil servant will be in a position to move with.
Right now Madam Speaker, if you want to know that this one is a civil servant or not, just look at clothing that they put on, the schools that their kids attend and also the lunch that they take. If you go to OK First Street or TM, just check during lunch hour what other workers will be buying from those shops and what our own civil servants, including our staff at Parliament will be buying. They will be buying buns or scones whilst others buy proper meals. Our civil servants deserve to get paid adequate money.
To that extent, I want to thank Hon. Members that debated before me. Your eyes have been opened just like they say in Shona, “vana vembwa havasvinure musi mumwe chete” but I am glad that at least you are joining us, who have been advocating to simply say let us not pretend that all is well with our civil servants. Let our civil servants be paid adequately so that they perform their work properly. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. A very good afternoon to you. I want to acknowledge the good work that has been done by Hon. Madhuku.
(v) HON. NDEBELE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order Hon. Member.
(v) HON. NDEBELE: I am far from the House but could you confirm the Hon. Member is wearing a leather jacket and that it is now part of Parliamentary dress Madam Speaker Ma’am?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Munetsi, I am sorry leather jackets are not formal dressing. Thank you for your understanding. Thank you Hon. Ndebele.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to add my voice on incentives for teachers. Teachers do a lot of work and all of us here are products of teachers. When we send our children to school, we expect them to bring some good results….
Hon. Kwaramba having been off the virtual platform.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Kwaramba, you are not connected.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to add my voice to this very important debate on incentives for teachers. Teachers do a lot of good work and most of us here are products of teachers. Now, when we send our children to school, we expect them to bring some good results but these results should come from people who are satisfied with their work. We have heard from time immemorial that teachers are poorly paid, they have been complaining and have been subject of ridicule. When everyone is discussing, you hear people saying, ‘ah, teachers or civil servants are poorly paid’ and so on, but we forget the good work that they do.
Personally, I think teachers should be rewarded for the work that they do, starting from monetary incentives that have been mentioned. I want to say when teachers produce good results at school, they should be rewarded. When we were doing visits around, we heard parents saying children were attending school for about four days in a month. Now, this shows the disgruntlement that teachers have. As long as teachers are not well-paid, we will continue to have poor results. We will continue to have teachers going to work but not doing any work.
We have heard the Government saying that they now have a new policy which says, ‘no work, no pay.’ What are we seeing? Teachers only attend classes but they just go and sit, they do not do anything. We are also reading that some parents are paying teachers privately and it is those lucky pupils who have parents who can afford, that are attending lessons. Some pupils only attend lessons for only four days in a month, but those with parents who can pay are attending classes every day.
We also have heard the Government saying they have stopped private lessons, teachers were benefitting from these private lessons. As a result, we were also getting very good results because they were doing their work privately and we were getting good results. I do not know why these private lessons were stopped but for me I think these were very good because we were getting good results.
We have the Land Reform Programme and I feel it is very important for teachers to be given small portions of land so that they can work to augment their salaries. In most cases, teachers are not considered. When the social welfare goes around giving food, I think teachers should also be considered. It is not only monetary but those few things will improve the lives of teachers.
On the issue of cars, I understand the Government has now banned the importation of cars which are 10 years and above, but looking at the salaries of teachers, you find that they cannot even afford to buy cars. It means they will never be able to buy cars. Yesterday, I met one teacher when I was coming here to Harare who was saying we are being paid $22 000 and when that money is pegged and changed to US dollars, it is equivalent to US$120. He was also bemoaning the fact that one Parliamentary Member here stood up to say, ‘we are getting so much and it is not enough.’ The teacher was saying, but how can a parliamentarian say they are getting that much and it is not enough, what about civil servants like us?
I want to say, when teachers complain that they are incapacitated, I feel we should listen to them and answer their plight instead of coming up with some policies which punish them. It is us parents who are going to suffer because those teachers are not going to teach. They will just go and sit and our children will fail and we get poor results. Remember what happened to the Grade Seven results, they were very poor. The Ordinary Level results are out and I was listening to the radio and heard that the results are not as good.
What sort of a generation are we going to produce, a generation of failures, pupils who have failed. How do they proceed to university, how are they going to pass? We expect to see graduates, how are we going to have graduates when their background – when they have not even passed their Grade Seven, they have not passed Ordinary Level and they have not passed Advanced Level. I think we are killing the education system if we continue denying teachers what they need. I feel teachers should get a salary, a living salary which is above the Poverty Datum Line (PDL). I can go on and on, it is something that really pains me because I am also coming from the education profession. I feel teachers should be rewarded accordingly.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am for giving me yet another chance to air my views on this good debate. I also want to thank Hon. Ndebele for correcting me to put on a nice jacket like this one, wherever he is.
I believe when you work, you need a salary, you cannot work and not get a salary that is enough for what you will have worked for. I have been in the civil service fraternity for some time and I feel the first thing that must be done is to change the word ‘servant,’ because maybe that is what makes them to be given a very low salary because they think they are servants. Another English equivalent word must be sought; I am just doing loud thinking.
Salaries for civil servants are very low, far much lower than is expected, hence, we get very little work being done also which equates to the salaries that they get. Discussions about civil servants’ salaries have been made; they were done several times before but to no avail. I think it is high time now that the Government sits down now and seriously think about civil servants salary. I look at the type of work that is done by teachers, nurses and doctors; they are all life savers. If you look at the nature of work that these people do and if you equate the salary of a teacher to the type of work that they do, you will discover that we are not doing any good service to them. We are looking at a teacher who is making a child start to write from scratch until they are able to speak good English. To date, we can speak good English, everyone here and we can dress properly. I can see Hon. Dr. Khupe there, she speaks good English and this came from a teacher, but look at the teachers’ salaries. They are very, very low.
So, such types of things should be considered and give due salaries to people who do such type of good work. If you look at nurses and doctors, they save lives. Go to any hospital, clinic and anywhere, people come there to have their lives saved. That is not easy and then we just look aside and not give a good salary to such types of people; it is unfair. Civil servants, let me say there are certain things that we must also do to civil servants. People have spoken about land, giving them land both in town and in the rural areas. They can be given stands and some houses in town now. When we talk of houses in town, we are saying if the Government can be able to build houses for civil servants and give them for free and then they also give them a piece of land out in the rural areas where they come from, that will do a lot good to them. It is quite a big incentive to those people because they know they have a house in town at least and also they have some piece of land in the rural areas.
I think to me this is good, certain allowances should also be given to civil servants across the board. I look at hardship allowances for those who work in the civil service I disagree though with people who think that if someone is a civil servant and works in town, life is easy, it is not. I think it is even better for someone who is in the rural areas because things are a bit cheaper out there. If someone is in Chitungwiza and teaches in Mufakose and would want to get and board two commuter buses everyday back and forth, then life is not easy. If that person is renting an apartment, paying electricity, water bills and transportation and looking at the salaries that they get, then the person is left with nothing. So, life is not easy for civil servants even those working in towns. Those who are working in the rural areas can just walk from their home that the school has built to a classroom. There is no transportation and at times they get some free vegetables and so forth. It is a lot easier for those people although it is hard for them to be teaching out there, hence they should be given that hardship allowance.
I feel civil servants should also be given food hampers to augment their salaries; some food hampers with basic needs that a person consumes per month would be good for them. I also look at some clothing allowances for civil servants. Most of the times teachers are putting on some jackets, shirts, tie and shoes which they buy from their little salary that they get. So, if there could be some form of allowances for clothing for them. I am not saying a uniform for teachers but clothing allowances with can allow them on top of their salary to go and buy a shirt, a pair of trousers per month and a pair of shoes, I would think that would save quite well for civil servants. I also look at some funeral cover for all civil servants, not a cover which ends when a person dies. I am looking at a funeral cover which covers the family even if the person working dies, the funeral cover should cover the remaining spouse and the children till death. That can also help to easy life for the civil servant.
On pensions, are you aware that now some people do not even go and get their monies from the bank. It is not enough to get the money board a bus, buy something and go back home. It is not enough. They just leave it there for some months then after 6 to 7 months, they go and withdraw the pension of not more than 10 000 RTGs, which is very unrealistic for someone who has been working for such a long time.
I also applaud the issue of fees exemption for civil servants’ children in schools if that could be looked into, it is a good thing to consider. I have always wondered about the type of future our kids are going to live from this era when teachers are not teaching properly and the results are very low. Very poor results are coming out but those children still need to live a life after. What are they going to do? It is simply because what is being accorded to civil servants is not enough.
Let me end by saying I have always wondered - there is a good scheme for civil servants for borrowing in shops like Topics and Edgars, very good scheme. I have always wondered why the Government cannot formulate such a scheme for civil servants where they can get whatever they want from Government and then they pay back to Government. Why is it being done by other players and not the Government, very good scheme, I can go to topics right now and come back with a new suite right now before sunset. I cannot do that to the Government to get some to buy whatever I want.
If such type of schemes can be turned over and be done by Government to civil servants, that will serve quite a lot, I thank you.
(v)* HON. CHINOTIMBA: Let us look at the plight of civil servants and not ignore them. We are not only looking at teachers but the police and the army, nurses and those who work in Government offices. They are not earning reasonable salaries. When we talk about certain issues, let us address them and not have a talk show than to wait for them to go on strike. As Members of Parliament, I want to thank you that you have finally given an ear to their plight. Half the time we do not look at the challenges that teachers face as civil servants. Teachers are important such that even the former President, Cde Mugabe started off as a teacher.
However, as teachers negotiate their salaries, it is not right for them to be comparing themselves with other civil servants in various fields such as the police and uniformed forces. They should negotiate for salary increase as a team. The salaries are inadequate, especially for those in rural areas. The current exchange rate is US$1 to 130 RTGs and that is the rate that is being used by most shops, except shops such as OK who do not use the black market rate. Such shops require that you pay what they charge. It is a ‘take it or leave it’ game. I want to thank the mover of the motion. We expect immediate action to be taken on the matter, even if it means Minister Mthuli Ncube be called into the House to answer questions and to address the matter. At one time, Hon. M. Ncube said that the Government has a surplus. How can you talk of surplus when the standard of living for the majority has not improved and they are earning peanuts?
So I want to thank the mover of the motion as we are debating this in one accord. I heard one Member saying that we are not in one accord but no one wants civil servants to struggle. We also want them to buy cattle, goats and to be empowered. I still remember a teacher who raised a complaint when he was given a token of appreciation in the form of a goat. We are saying if one has performed exceptionally well it is good to appreciate. Some teachers have produced very good results at grade seven level, so they need to be appreciated. I do not have much to say but I join my colleagues in that we need to look at the plight of the civil servants. I am looking at all professions in the civil service - teachers, police, armed forces, health sector and so on. We cannot have security guards earning more than the ZRP. By the nature of their jobs they should be given more money. Everyone has passed through the hands of teachers. Even you Hon. Speaker, had it not been the work of a teacher you would not be where you are seated today. For the President to be where he is today, it is because he passed through the hands of a teacher. Let us address their plight to improve their standard of living.
Currently, PSMAS is failing to provide medical services. If you go and seek medical attention it requires you to pay a shortfall. I want to thank the trade unionists who represent civil servants. We have heard their plight as Hon. Members and they should continue nagging us in order for their challenges to be addressed. I thank you.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Maam. First of all, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Madhuku and all other Hon. Members who have debated before me. This is a very important motion. I support the issue of non-monetary incentives to our civil servants 100%. However, like what Hon. Mushoriwa said, these non-monetary incentives must come as a complimentary effort over and above their salaries. What is an incentive Madam Speaker? An incentive is something which is given to somebody in order for that person to be motivated or to be encouraged so that they do more. Non-monetary incentives must be given to civil servants so that they are encouraged or motivated to do more. The sad reality right now is that our civil servants do not have anything. Their salaries are paltry. They cannot do anything meaningful with their salaries.
Madam Speaker, if I compare a teacher of yester-years and a teacher of nowadays, they are very different. I come from a background of a family which has got teachers. My father was a teacher and they were getting paid on the 25th of every month. We would know that on 25th of each month when our mother coming off the bus we will happy because we know we are going to get cream doughnuts and other things. My young sister is a teacher and it is
HON. DR. KHUPE (SPKING)…it is phone calls every day, problem after problem. My young sister was a teacher but now she is sitting at home. She is a degreed person, she has got a masters degree. She could not afford even bus fare so she decided to stay at home. I am raising these issues, Madam Speaker, so that we take issues of civil servants seriously.
Madam Speaker, Zimbabwe is known to be a country which has a high literacy rate, had a very good health system and a country which is so quiet, which is peaceful. So this is why many people wanted to live in Zimbabwe because they knew that in Zimbabwe you are very free. You would walk at night, leave your house open and no one will do anything because we knew that our police officers would do their jobs 100%. If you felt sick and you walked into a hospital, you knew that the moment you walked into a hospital, you would be well because our nurses and doctors would treat you, handle you with care so that you say I have never seen this. You knew that if you sent your children to school, they would be educated and they would be graduates and get a job, but look at what is happening right now Madam Speaker.
Look at our pass rates. In some areas zero pass rate. Why is it so, because our teacher’s salaries do not mean anything. Even those teachers who were teaching in the rural areas, you knew that this homestead belonged to a teacher, this homestead belonged to a headmaster because they were beautiful. These people had good lives but look at teachers right now. They have been reduced to destitute. Madam Speaker, a speaker who spoke before me said we are where we are right now because of teachers. Teachers are the ones who build the foundation of the future of our children because we know that if your child is educated, they are guaranteed of getting a job and a better life at the end of the day.
We know that a healthy nation produces but an unhealthy nation cannot produce, Madam Speaker. We know that a nation which is safe people come and invest in your country because they know that our security forces are on the alert all the time. People will come and put their money, but look at what is happening. Police officers are receiving bribes every day. Why is it so? Is it because they are trying to supplement their salaries.
Just as we were doing our feedback meetings, one of the Hon. Members saw one police officer receiving a bribe. Is this what our police officers want? No. Madam Speaker, what this is pointing to is that we must pay our civil servants well so that they perform well over and above their salaries then they can be given these other incentives. yes, let them be given land and mining claims, but you know that with land and mining claims it is not all the teachers, police officers, doctors and nurses who are going to be given farms and mining claims.
So some of these things as we talk about them, yes they are very good, but the first port of call, Madam Speaker, is that our civil servants must be remunerated well. We must give them priority. This is why even if it is the United Nations or it is the African Union or SADC, they always say education, agriculture and health must be given higher budgets because they know that your economies rest around these three pillars. If you have got a healthy nation, an educated nation and a safe nation, you know that many people will come and invest in your country. Madam Speaker, with these few words I support the motion. I would like to urge Government and say please Government, can we pay our civil servants a living wage. Let their wages be matched with the cost of living, let their wages be matched to the poverty datum line so that they are able to raise their families well so that they have a better life. I rest my case.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Madhuku and seconded by Hon. T. Moyo. Firstly, I want to thank the Government for listening to the plight of the workers, especially when they ask for a raise in remuneration. I think that the Government should take note of some of these measures and what we are saying is that these are non monetary benefits and it can assist the civil servants in the little money that they are getting.
The Government put in place a duty free vehicle scheme, but I think that the 10 years that they have put for one to have served the Government is a long time and I think the Government should reduce these years to five years for one to be eligible to buy a car using the duty free facility. We have heard that others stay far from urban areas and need transport to these CBDs. So for that person to serve 10 years before they can access the scheme is not right. I think this should be reviewed from 10 years to five years in service.
It is painful as a teacher if you work for the Government that you are unable to pay fees for your own child but you are educating other people’s children. I think the Government should assist the teachers in terms of educating their children in these schools. If you look at the nurses, the nurses can also fall sick and have to pay very high amounts for medical procedures. Government should also assist those in the health sector who face challenges in acquiring the required money to undergo medical operations.
If you go to hospitals, you are requested to pay a shortfall, so civil servants are experiencing a lot of challenges. I think the Government should look into this and ensure that it enables civil servants to access medical services. If we look at the ZRP, they have challenges in terms of accommodation. This affects their professionalism because they cannot arrest the landlord when he does wrong because of this. What we want is for them not to live in those residential areas, but should be afforded their own accommodation so that they are able to perform their duties professionally without corruption. So the Government should come in.
On the issue of study leave, we want our nation to develop but we realise that the Government no longer supports anyone on study leave. What we requested for the Government is to take up the practice that was there before in taking up the fees and assisting those taking study leave. Government should assist in that respect. I thank you Madam Speaker.
+HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you for allowing me to contribute to this motion. I would like to appreciate Hon. Madhuku for bringing this motion to this august House because as I am speaking, I do not know whether you are aware that children are not receiving enough education. They only go to school twice per week. I do not know whether you are aware of that.
As we talk about this motion this is a situation that is happening on the ground. I am wondering whether Government is aware that doctors and nurses are leaving the country going to other countries because of poor remuneration, despite being trained by Government.
I would also like to talk about civil servants who are not being properly remunerated. Most civil servants are living miserably, some do not afford proper medication because medical aid charges are beyond their means. Every time a civil servant visits a hospital, they are expected to pay a shortfall. Even Members of this august House as Hon. MPs, we do not afford proper medical care.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, civil servants across the divide should be able to get medical attention without any hassles. We contribute large amounts of money every month towards medical aid and I believe that this should cover all medical expenses.
Let me also talk about those in the teaching profession who are expected to pay fees for their own children but earning meager salaries. We have noted Madam Speaker Ma’am, that in most schools, there are no PPEs. I visited a number of schools disbursing CDF funds and projects and I noted that there are only buckets and soaps in most schools for washing hands. I also noticed that the PPE situation is improving in most schools. There are supposed to be adequate masks in schools so that on the opening day, everything is in place.
Civil servants are earning meager salaries which cannot cater for all their basic needs. Their salaries are only enough for transport fares to take them to work and back home. So, I would like to implore Government to intervene in this regard, especially for teachers because everyone is a product of teachers. The new generation is being prejudiced. What do we expect them to do and how do we expect them to live. You have noted Madam Speaker Ma’am, that in some schools, Grade 7s recorded a zero percent pass rate. The O’ Level results are also not very pleasing because teachers are not properly remunerated. It is important to make sure that every civil servant is in a conducive environment with incentives and a motivating salary.
Every good and service Madam Speaker Ma’am, needs foreign currency, so most teachers are forced to go to the black market to buy foreign currency using their local earnings. In most cases, the rate is not favourable but they still go ahead and buy foreign currency so that they pay their bills and pay school fees for their children. In my own point of view, I believe that they should be empowered through adequate salaries. This is their plight which we bring before this august House and it is my humble submission that Government should intervene in this issue so that teachers will go back to class so that our children are able to learn every school day. It might take a long time for children to catch up with the syllabus but it is necessary to do so.
It is very difficult for civil servants to adapt to the current economic environment. Their plight is quite deplorable. What they need is an adequate salary which will meet their needs. If this happens, then I believe that service delivery will improve drastically. If given the salaries they are requesting from Government, then I believe that they are capable of discharging their duty with fortitude. This should apply to all civil servants who will be satisfied.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I concur with other speakers who have spoken in this House that civil servants deserve to be given proper remuneration so that they perform well. This will be to the advantage of the economic development of Zimbabwe. Otherwise, you will discover that most of the times, they will just be wiling up time, not performing well at their different workplaces. This will have negative effects on our children and the general populace. Government should look into the plight of civil servants so that Zimbabwe reclaims its former glory. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
*HON. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam Speaker for awarding me this opportunity today to air my views on the debate. My mother was a teacher and she was the best teacher. When we grew up, we knew that a teacher’s child was given respect due to the position and status the parent held, but right now it is a sorry state because that respect and even the position in society is no longer there. What we used to do in the past is no longer happening nowadays and even the importance of education is no longer being considered.
When we are at our work places doing different duties, teachers are the ones who will be having our children at school teaching them moral lessons of life. Today I am very happy because we received our O level results. Teachers help school children to know their future. My child, Tadiwa Mavetera scored 20 A’s There is another child called Chikwanda from Goromonzi who scored 18 A’s. It means we are seeing the job of teachers and the results of their work. Teachers are dedicated in the future of our kids. As Government, we must see what we can do concerning the issue of salaries and the welfare of civil servants.
The plea of teachers is - they teach someone’s kid but their salaries do not allow them to pay school fees for their own children. I thank Hon. Madhuku for raising this motion. Right now, it is an opportunity for us to help teachers so that they get incentives for them to be able to send their children to school without paying any school fees. What is painful Madam Speaker, is that you are teaching someone’s child whilst you cannot afford to send your own child to school. I sat down and criticised the way in which negotiations of teachers’ salaries is being held, that includes the rest of civil servants.
I think everything has its own stages. We cannot match a teacher or group teachers, soldiers and police officers in the same category. Every civil servant must be allowed to negotiate on their category. If they are teachers, police officers, soldiers - they must negotiate on their own. If we are saying teachers must get incentives to be able to send their children to school, it will only be applicable to teachers and does not apply to soldiers. Therefore, each category of civil servants must be able to negotiate for their salaries. Police officers fall in a different category, same applies to soldiers. Even the way they are recruited; teachers, soldiers and police officers is different from other civil servants. There is need for them to negotiate according to the nature of their jobs. If it is teachers, let their issues be discussed focusing on them alone.
Let me go on to the issue of police officers. If I am a police officer and am also a lodger; if my landlord illegally sells drinks, am I going to sue my landlord? I cannot sue my landlord because that is where I stay with my family. I will end up violating the rules of my job because I want accommodation. Police officers end up violating the rules due to the salaries they get.
If we are looking at the issue of Mozambique - it is a country which is near us. If today what is happening in Mozambique, say it is a war, it will end up spilling into Zimbabwe. I am saying let us try by all means to help our police officers and soldiers because they are the ones who protect us as a country. I also want to thank His Excellency the President, for his commitment in trying to resolve the issue of civil servants salaries.
We spoke here in Parliament and we said that there must be cars like the Datsun-Go that must be given to police officers but these cars are not usable to all areas. Where I come from in Chikomba, these cars cannot be driven there due to bad roads. Although these roads are being refurbished right now, police officers end up not being able to execute their duties well because of lack of proper equipment to use. Let us give incentives to civil servants so that they can perform their duties properly.
Lastly, let us not compromise the performance of civil servants. Let us stick together with civil servants and work together so that they can perform well in their duties. Let us go back and negotiate with them so that our country can move forward to achieve Vision 2030 which was enunciated by His Excellency, President E. D. Mnangagwa. Vision 2030 is only achievable if we work together with civil servants and working together as a whole country. Thank you Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to debate on this motion. I am expecting a pizza since my child has performed well.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to speak on this motion. I got in the House when debate had already started. When I saw the motion on the Order Paper, I said to myself that I would debate on it. This motion came after the Workers’ Day Celebration which was held on the 1st of May, 2021. Zimbabwean workers, in particular civil servants who fall under Government are known to be hard workers. If you look at Mozambique, Botswana, South Africa even in the UK and America, you find Zimbabweans in all those countries.
Madam Speaker, if we talk about the issue of teachers, nurses, doctors, police officers, soldiers, including Parliament employees - are they being well remunerated for them to have the zeal to come to work? The remunerations must be awarded properly in order to acknowledge them for their good job.
Let me start with the Parliament employees; we are here, they are the ones recording and capturing all that is being said in Parliament. Parliament staff has important roles also such as informing us of daily activities. This group of workers does their best and must be given good remuneration so that they can continue to execute their jobs well. However, that is not happening on the ground, what can we do to improve the welfare of Parliament staff?
I grew up from a family where my mother was a nurse and we were very proud because we were called children of a nurse. However, nowadays if you are a child of a civil servant whether a teacher, soldier, police officer or nurse you are all the same.
Madam Speaker, if we look at the issue of transport for civil servants, the other time I raised that issue when I was tabling an education report that most of the teachers face difficulties finding transport to and from work. These Government employees also want cars - give them a credit facility for them to purchase cars. Such kind of incentives helps families to leave a better life. Most of the people whom you see hiking public transport, most of them are Government employees. Yes, the Government rolled out buses but they are not enough to cater for all the Government employees.
The police officers having spent all the day working to ensure the safety of the public, at the end of the day you see them waiting for public transport wearing their uniform. This job deserves some kind of respect, considering the duties carried out. The same with nurses, you see them wearing their white uniforms getting into public transport which is not good at all.
The respect which used to be given to civil servants must continue to be given to them. Long back, if you would get into a class room or at any congregation and ask children what they would want to do when they grew up, they would say I want to be a nurse or doctor. Right now, if you ask children what they would want to do when they grow up, you will notice that they are running away from these professions – instead, they want to be lawyers. It has been noted that the profession of teaching or that of the health fraternity is no longer of value.
However, if the Government can award these car loans, these employees can be comfortable in going to and from work thereby performing their duties diligently.
I once spoke on the issue of clothing allowance; civil servants must be given an opportunity to go and buy cloths on credit with a Government guarantee. This will improve their lifestyle and also maintain the status in the public domain. If someone is engaged in a project of building their house or farming in the rural areas, there must be a scheme to support such projects.
I also want to talk about the issue of funeral policies, there is need for Government to come up with better options in terms of payments so that when a Government employee dies or their next of keen, and they can get a decent burial. A person will be given a status mostly because of where they were serving or working during their life time. The dignity of civil servants must be restored as it was during the 90s.
Someone completes his or her O levels and goes for 4 year training, gets employed and starts earning peanuts. So the issue of Government salaries must be resolved so that employees get deserving packages and be able to have a decent life. There are certain furniture shops which offers credit on zero deposit, so, Government employees must be given stamped letters from their respective departments for example a Parliament employee can go with stamped letter from Parliament.
There is need for us as Government to put our heads so that our employees have decent lives. Even when the kids are going to school, they will be able to blend well with other children from well up families if salaries of Government workers are raised. Performance of school children also reflects the situation at home. The Government must responsible enough to take care of its employees.
Madam Speaker if you look at the issue of even bedding, some of our employees do not even afford to buy beds. We have many pension funds organisations, these can build houses and civil servants can benefit from these houses whilst they are on mortgage backed by Government as a guarantor. So, at the end of the day both the employees and the pensioners are able at able to benefit since the money will paid over a long period of time.
Lastly, I want to congratulate and thank Government employees, including the staff of Parliament. We have them here on a daily basis executing their duties perfectly. As Government, let us help them so that they can be able to have a comfortable life. There are unions which represent Government employees, we want to thank them. There were issues to do with strikes, but these unions have waited for the negotiations to take place under the tripartite negotiation. Therefore, I am urging the task force responsible for the negotiations to go and work together so that our employees will benefit. Our civil servants should not leave the country searching for greener pastures because of low remuneration. My plea is that the Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Labour and other relevant ministries must look into this issue urgently and resolve it, like what Hon. Madhuku has said. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.
(v)HON. I. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion raised by Hon. Madhuku and seconded by Hon. T. Moyo. Motivation of civil servants plays a major part in achieving various Government programmes. We are all aware that this motivation can be in various forms. Of course a reasonable salary that is above the poverty datum line is very important to enable Government workers to afford basic needs such as school fees, clothing, accommodation, transport et cetera. Poverty datum line in September 2020 according to ZIMSTAT for a family of 5 was 17244RTGS, this was 8 months ago and we are now in May. The poverty datum line has increased substantially far much over 20000RTGS. It is therefore important for all civil servants to be able to afford a roof over their heads, be able to pay school fees for their children, be able to contribute towards medical aid and other necessities for a middle class worker. I would like to believe that most civil servants are classified as middle class workers. At the moment, it is clear that civil servants are not putting maximum effort in their various fields of employment because of the meagre salaries. A good example are teachers, some of them are providing their services for only a few days a week, the reason being that they are incapacitated due to the meagre salaries.
However, some of the civil servants spend most of their time trying to supplement their salaries by engaging in selling various commodities instead of putting 100% effort on their jobs. This includes our own Parliament staff. Basically they are trying to make ends meet. It is therefore important for civil servants to be capacitated. In the case of teachers, I think it is also important to have their children not pay school fees just like we have other employees like ZESA staff. I understand they get free electricity to a certain level. The same can be applied to nurses and other civil servants.
I also believe decent salaries to civil servants will go a long way in reducing corruption since these meagre salaries are a cause of the current corruption in the civil service. Recently, we have heard cases at the Registrar General’s office and other important Government departments. I am positive this is due to the meagre salaries that they are getting. If they were properly remunerated, the corruption would be minimised to a large extend. Due to the meagre salaries, we see nurses, doctors, teachers and other skilled civil servants seeking greener pastures outside the country resulting in our country losing important skills and brain drain.
It is therefore important to improve these salaries without further delays. In brief Madam Speaker, I want to thank Hon. Madhuku for this very important motion. I thank you very much.
*HON. PORUSINGAZI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate supporting the motion raised by the former civil servant Hon. Madhuku, second by Hon. T. Moyo. Madam Speaker, in the past, for one to be said to be a Government worker, it was something that was very honourable. Teachers for example were the ones who were able to afford tea in the morning and meals served with meat for lunch and dinner. They bathed using Geisha soap and would use Nivea creams because their jobs were well paying. Nowadays it is now different, now Government workers regret working for Government. They now envy other paying jobs. All of us here came through the hands of a teacher and they help moulding the future.
If your child were to be married to a police officer, as a parent you were proud of it, in the past. Every parent wanted their children to be married to an Agritex officer and Government employees. When we were still young during our youthful days, our wish was to marry a teacher or a nurse because those jobs were honourable jobs and they were well paying. Nowadays, it is different. These civil servants now envy other well paying jobs. All of us here, we passed through the hands of a teacher. They are responsible for our wellbeing from childhood to where we are right now. If you look right now, some teachers wear one shirt from Monday to Friday. They have no choice because they do have something to change with. Long back they were known for buying from Topics and Edgars but now most of them cannot afford. Very few now can afford. It is not all of them who cannot afford but most of them cannot afford to pay Edgars or Topics. We applaud the presence of bales because at least they can get one or two shirts yet that should not be the case.
In our rural areas, we notice that some fail even to join a funeral service and if they die or have a funeral of their immediate family, they cannot afford a coffin. We end up chipping in as Members of Parliament. If we do not help, we will see some being buried on a traditional mat (rupasa). What we notice is that when they retire, their bodies weaken because they cannot afford a decent meal and some die quickly due to stress. Soon after retirement, their lives become meaningless. Let us take care of our teachers, not only teachers but all civil servants. Even those who work here are equally affected.
I would like to thank Hon. Madhuku for moving this motion to cushion our civil servants because we have seen the results in our schools. This cushion should be something which can help them have a better life. Ordinary Level results are a result of the teachers’ hard work but what do they get after that - peanuts. Civil servants wake up very early in the morning to go to work even though their salaries are miserable. If we look at nurses with this pandemic, they still strive to go to work because they love their job. Let us not forget that most of these professionals spent about three or four years to be where they are because they wanted better remuneration.
As Parliament, we must be moved by this motion, so let us take it seriously. We represent everyone here including the army, police force and all those in other Government departments. We should appreciate their work by improving their livelihoods. I thank you.
(v) HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. Most of my points have been covered in previous debates but I would like to just raise a couple of issues. I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Madhuku and bring to the table the following issues. The issue here is the salaries of the teachers and as has been said, up to now it is actual representative of the civil servants across the board. The issue pertaining to teachers as I have said is salaries. We cannot run a budget and run the books and claim that we have achieved something that civil servants salaries now is 40% of the budget when it was 97. What that means in this current hyper-inflation situation is that the salary now means very little. From this salary problem, we now start getting issues of people wanting to put in food hampers, fuel allowance – the fundamental issue we have with teachers is salaries and nothing else.
My concern is that Government seems to be running away from the real problem which is salaries in a hyper-inflationary situation. We have to seek out the fundamental problem of our teachers. As it stands, civil servants do not have a pensionable income. After years of work, our pensions today mean nothing. Medical aid is virtually non-existent. Even Parliamentarians belong to a medical aid but when it comes to payment and claiming, the two things are very different. As funeral polices, the similar issue remains. NSSA contributions compared to what they are receiving are non-linkable. Teachers face numerous problems. They face a dilapidated infrastructure; they face a huge population increase in class but they have very few tools that have been supplied by the Ministry; things like books. We have a major issue with books in most constituencies. Coupled with that, we now go into situations in most Government schools where people are hot sitting.
If you take one of my schools, I have a school that is a satellite school. It has got 1 100 children and only one teacher at that school is paid by Government. It appears that Government has reluctance to take more teachers onto their books. Now, you cannot steal the future by reducing the number of teachers so that we have got a higher ratio of pupils per teacher. Today, teachers and most civil servants cannot afford any housing plan. They cannot afford any transport plan. Gone are the days where teachers used to go to school in a car. Gone are the days where housing was provided in most Government schools, particularly in rural areas. As a result, we are now losing teachers to the diaspora. Also at primary schools, we have got numerous private schools beaming up all over the country and they are taking the best of our teachers. We are now left with teachers who cannot even feed themselves and this is a major issue. I run into another issue which is the infrastructure, our infrastructure and building of schools is way behind. Even in schools where there has been donations and we have to supply the sciences: the domestic science, chemical science and agricultural colleges, we lack the ability to pay for that and all those things are lying idle.
So, the teachers have to face all that purely because they are not being paid what they are supposed to be. They have been incapacitated now for two years but with the COVID coming in and complicating the issue. We now have parents facing problems where they are paying school fees but their children are not learning. Whether they are delayed by COVID or by the incapacitation of the teachers, the parents are not getting anything for what they are paying.
As a result, we are not in a country where we are now taking and stealing the children’s future by not educating them, which is easy because that is something that is going to come up in the future just so that we can balance our books or pretend to temporarily balance our books because we reduce the civil servants’ ratio in our National Budget. As I said, we lose everyone to private schools and we are losing people across the board. We have got a major crisis in the health sector. However, my biggest concern is that we were promised that the health service and all frontline workers including teachers, that there would be a COVID allowance and this has not happened, it is a broken promise. As a result now, we are in a situation where we are boasting about balancing the budget but at what cost? At what cost are we balancing the budget when we are not educating our children, when we are not supplying a decent health service? I thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to contribute.
*HON. MAKONYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Madhuku for raising this pertinent motion and supported by Hon. T. Moyo which is a very good motion. This motion concerns our civil servants. Madam Speaker, looking at our civil servants, they are people who used to be respected in the past when we were growing up. If you look at someone who was called a teacher, he was a respected person, even within the family structures. If a parent knew that a child is in love with a teacher, that family was called a lucky family because their child is married to a teacher or is in love with a teacher. Even looking at the soldiers, if a child is married to a soldier there was a big celebration that a child is married to a soldier. This means that civil servants were respected very much, including police officers.
Nurses were respected very much in our society but right now their respect is no longer the same. Looking at teachers right now especially female teachers, their dressing tells you that you have seen a female teacher. When they are going to school, especially those that reside in town, you see them carrying carrier bags full of maputi and zapnax to sell at school so that they can survive, but we do not expect this from a teacher. If you look at everyone who is educated, they came from the hands of teachers. During the covid pandemic lockdown when we spent many days with our children at home from grade 0 to grade 7, you could see that this is problematic, so tell me what about a teacher who starts their day with children at 7.30 a.m. until 4.30 p.m. teaching these children. It means teachers have a lot of problems. Therefore we are saying may Government award them salaries which they deserve, including soldiers, nurses and police officers. Soldiers and policemen protect us even in areas where we stay. Give them rewards or salaries which they deserve.
Looking at police officers uniforms at road blocks, they are in a sorry state. This is a qualified police officer but sometimes due to dressing, you think they are the neighbourhood watch officers. Due to poor salaries our police officers end up engaging in corrupt activities. For teachers to engage in extra lessons, it is because they want to get extra money for survival, but we do not expect them to do these extra lessons because some parents do not have money to pay for these extra lessons. Some children could not manage to write their examinations because they did not have money to go for extra lessons and some of them end up failing because they do not have the money for extra lessons. These children just stayed at their homes during the covid-19 lockdowns. Therefore we are saying give them deserving salaries. They are educated to teach a child to write from A to Z or 0 to 10. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am happy to speak in support of the motion that has been moved by Hon. Madhuku and supported by Hon. Moyo. I will start by highlighting that the civil servants have the Constitution of Zimbabwe on their side and as a country that is under Constitutional supremacy we need to be guided by what our national Constitution is saying about this particular case. If you look at Section 65, it speaks about the labour rights and says every person has the right to fair and safe labour practices and standards and to be paid a fair and reasonable wage.
For today, I think the most important component is a fair and reasonable wage, a wage that gives you dignity. I think as a Member of Parliament I would like to register my serious concerns about the standard of salaries and terms of benefits for civil servants in this country, especially in the last five years, I think it is deplorable. In support of this motion I am also encouraging the Government, especially Treasury to take serious measures to ensure that the terms and conditions of employment and benefits for our civil servants are improved drastically.
It is for the benefit of this country that we do so. For example, we are fighting against corruption at the moment. To win the war against corruption, one of the things that we need to do is to make sure that civil servants have good benefits and terms and conditions of employment and are remunerated well. One of the reasons that makes them get into situations of corrupt behaviour and conduct is related to the low salary that they are getting. So, we cannot win the fight against corruption as a country when our civil servants are getting these kinds of salaries. It is important that we improve their terms and conditions of employment and in that process; we boost our fight against corruption. Another reason is that we need to be worried about the brain drain. We are a country that produces a lot of skills but at the same time, we are A country that loses a lot of skills. We now have a Diaspora community. Millions of our fellow Zimbabweans are now leaving permanently outside Zimbabwe. One of the reasons why they are no longer in Zimbabwe is because of the terms and conditions of employment, the salaries that they were earning in this country when compared to other countries.
We can talk about patriotism and introducing the Patriotism Bill but I doubt that the Patriotism Bill will be able to stop any civil servant from getting another employment opportunity in another country. Patriotism does not bring food to the table. So, as Government, it is important that we talk of patriotism and also make sure that our civil servants get patriotic salaries and benefits. I know that there is a situation where people are saying where does the money come from?
I think the Minister of Finance has, on several occasions, boasted about surplus in public. What we need to know is how we can have surplus when people are being paid deplorable salaries, when our civil servants are striving to make ends meet. I am challenging the Minister of Finance Hon. Prof. Ncube to make sure that the so called surplus that he is always boasting about be diverted to improve the salaries of our civil servants. Our teachers have been on strike for more than a year now and they are struggling to pay them at least US$550. That surplus could be put to better use. There is no reason why we should boast about having surplus of money when our people have no decent salaries.
Another issue that we need to worry about is about making sure that we can pay our civil servants, not just in cash but in kind. There are many schemes that the Government can come up with. Benefits around housing, medical aid, education, school fees and so on - practical benefits that are incentives for civil servants not to leave the civil service. Even if they are not getting highly competitive salaries, but as long as they have got those benefits and they want to get a car loan, let us make it easier and if they want to have land or a stand, let us make it easier for them. If it is pension, let us make sure that the pension is a pension that they are going to depend on.
So, we need to improve and we can go to other countries if we feel it necessary so that we learn from them so that we can retain our civil servants without even worrying a lot about how much they are earning. Most importantly, if we are going to build Zimbabwe, we need to make sure that all the civil servants are aboard. They are all focused on developing the country rather than worrying everyday about bread and butter issues and their family welfare.
In support of this motion, I say the Minister of Finance and Government, please enough is enough. Come up with a salary structure that really makes sure that all our civil servants do not deal with the poverty datum line anymore. Thank you so much for this motion and it is about time we give our civil servants competitive salaries and terms and conditions of employment. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 5th May, 2021.
On the motion of HON. MUTAMBISI, seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 28th April, 2021
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
THEMATIC COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the Senate that the following Hon. Senators have been assigned to the Thematic Committees as follows:
Hon. Sen. Kambizi will serve in the Thematic Committee on Human Rights and the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security.
Hon. Sen. D. Mabika will serve in the Thematic Committees on Human Rights and also on the HIV and AIDS.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 23A, 2019]
First Order read: Resumption of Committee: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 23A, 2019].
House in Committee.
THE CHAIRPERSON (HON. CHARUMBIRA): The Committee of the whole House will have under its consideration, the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 23A, 2019].
On Clause 13:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Thank you Hon. Chair. When the Committee sought leave to report progress and leave to sit again, we were on Clause 13. Clause 13 being the Clause that deals with tenure of Judges and the effect of this Clause being that we were maintaining the term limit Clause for the Constitutional Court Judges but raising the retirement age. Clause 13 (1), (2) and (3) explaining the process of raising the retirement age. Clause 4, which we had a lot of debate on, being a proviso to explain that it is not in any way trying to temper with provisions of Section 328. If you allow me Hon. Chair to give a bit of explanation regarding that Clause, why we had to put it there;
Hon. Chair, this provision is not in any way as the arguments in the debate were being proffered, meant to nor does it purport to amend Section 328 (7). It is only meant to be an explanatory provision to bring clarity to the amendments proposed under Section 186. The tenure of Judges is described in the Constitution in two ways, the first being that of term limits. This one applies to Judges of the Constitutional Court in which they are required to serve for a period of 15 years in the Constitutional Court and then they leave. This is the position of the law and this provision has not been affected or amended by Amendment No. 2. The term limit of the Judges of the Constitutional Court has therefore not been changed, it remains 15 years.
So, if you go into the Constitution, it speaks of two ways that Judges of the Constitutional Court will leave office; first, if you are appointed and you serve for 15 years, even if you are still under 70, you go or the second one where you are appointed, you serve, maybe for two years and you reach the age limit of 70, you then go. This amendment is not in any way removing the 15-year term limit, rather, it is saying, those who would not have served for 15 years and are still under 75, let us raise it from 70 to 75. So, it is not affecting the provisions that are under Section 328 (7), this is the provision that is covered by Section 328 (7) to say that the term limit is 15 years. After 15 years, if you are a Constitutional Court Judge and you still want to be a Judge because you have not yet reached the retirement age, you can go to the Supreme Court if there is a vacancy or to the High Court and then serve up to the required age.
The second provision on the tenure of Judges, this is what I have explained. It is the age limit which affects all Judges, that judges retire after reaching the age of 70 and we are saying in this amendment we want to up it to 75. This is the provision that is being amended by Amendment No. 2. It is of age limit and not term limit. This provision on age limit is not covered, like I said, before by Section 328 (7) of the Constitution.
I think the confusion which we have all noted in the debates that have been ongoing is that there was kind of conflicting provisions on age limit and term limit. So that conflation led to the notion that we want to tamper with Section 328 (7). Section 328 (7) does not cover both age limit and term limit; it covers only the term limit. What we are trying to do by this Clause that we debated so much is that we now want to clarify that by insertion of ‘notwithstanding’ proviso in the amendment. Insertion of this provision does not in any way affect the substantive provisions of the amendment of Section 186. So in other words, we have the substantive provisions that we want to say let us raise it to 75, but if you have served for 15 years, you go. Those substantive provisions are not being altered by this ‘notwithstanding’. It is just there to seek to enhance the interpretation of that particular clause so that there is no confusion about term limit and age limit. In other words, this provision is not a substantive provision of the amendment; it is just an interpretive provision which is meant to bring clarity on the position of the law as I have explained above, which is that the amendment is one on raising the age limit and not on term limit. This is allowed in terms of the Latin “Maxim abundance putela” which literally means putting things beyond reasonable doubt.
I want to emphasize that the proviso is not in any way amending Section 328. If one is to make such an argument, that is simply being fallacy because you cannot amend a provision through a proviso which is dealing with some amendments which have no effect or any bearing on Section 328. In any case, there are laid down requirements which need to be followed to amend constitutional provisions like Section 328 (7) and we also need a referendum for it.
For argument’s sake, even if this proviso is to be removed, it does not affect the substantive implications of the amendment but there is no harm in putting clarity and giving meaning to the effects of the changes that are being brought to by Section 186 by Amendment No. 2. So, my position Hon. Chair is just to clarify the law to say that what we need really to zero in on is the substantive provisions. What is aimed is to raise the age limit of retirement, not the term limit of the Constitutional Court judges. How are we doing it? That is the process that was done by Subsection 1, 2, 3 which are now being mentioned to say that notwithstanding what we have said, these provisions are not in any way related or affected by that provision in Section 328 which speaks of a condition that if you change the term limit, then the incumbent should not benefit from that particular term limit change. Having proffered that clarification Hon. Chair, I think I have done justice to this provision and request and humbly plead that the Bill be put to the Senate and be approved. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. We have listened to what the Minster has just said, but I was struggling to understand the main reason for raising the age from 70 to 75. Is it the shortage of the people in Zimbabwe? Is it the shortage of qualified judges in Zimbabwe? Surely, when a person reaches 70 years, he is old, mentally weak and physically weak in terms of undertaking real work. We know in general people retire at 65 years, simply because they cannot carry out tough jobs. We all know the work of judge needs a lot of reading and research. It is one of the toughest jobs we can ever have on earth to listen to arguments and cases, to follow arguments. We have had problems with age even at our homes, “kana wana sekuru wakura nanambuya.” It is very difficult for them to comprehend issues. Currently the world is under new technology. It is very difficult for old people to follow that. Even young men and women of my age in our 40s and 50s struggle to follow new technology. We know very well these days in the offices we are using these gadgets, computers, laptops, internet and everything else. With age, we have got challenges to comprehend Hon. Chair. I have not seen or heard from you Hon. Minister the reason why we should have the age extended for the judges, because I am sure and confident that Zimbabwe itself carries a lot of judges highly educated; prominent men and women who can occupy those positions. It would be quite acceptable Minister, that if a person reaches 70 years, he or she packs their bags to the farm and do the farming. Thank you so much.
Hon. B. Mpofu having stood to debate.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Let me respond to this first. If the Hon. Senator has something new, then perhaps with your indulgence, you can allow him. Hon. Chair, on the contrary, judges are not per se young people and there is a reason for that. We decide on mature people: firstly because they are not even chasing after money, so the older the judge is the better in terms of dispensing their work. The younger they are the more dangerous they are. Even in a family set up, that is the reason if you are to compare. I have to say this and not that I just want to praise you for the sake of it. The way that business is conducted in the family is extremely different from the way business is conducted there because of the maturity that comes with age… - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - So we need to tell ourselves that we need provisions of the law that allow us to tap into that experience and not only that, our judges have legally qualified clerks to assist them.
Even the ICT people that you mentioned, they have them and can even ask the clerks - can you research on this? After the research, they sit down and apply their minds. So the older you become, the less corruptible you become and the more you are more mature, less to anger, more responsible and a very good mediator. I think that we cannot throw away a pool of extremely experienced and knowledgeable judges that we can use. Besides, what we are doing is that we are just re-emphasizing what was already there in the Constitution. If you go into the Constitution, it allows for acting judges and if you look at it closely, all those who are eligible to be appointed as acting judges are former judges. So we are just putting more clarity to it and ensuring that those who are still able; besides we have put a provision in there to say that you undergo a medical examination and if you are fit and sound, you continue. The practice also happens in the United States of America. They had a judge who was over 83 years old. So it is not a practice that we are inventing but we are saying let us tap into that pool of knowledge and continue using it for the proper delivery of justice to our people. I thank you Hon. Chair and move that we proceed and consider the clause.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Hon. Chair. I feel that some of the points that I wanted to raise have already been raised but what I am concerned about is the rubber stamping persona of this House that the Hon. Minister comes here; he does not want to change. He does not want to change not because we have substantive issues but he does not want to change because he has to go and re-consult like he stated yesterday.
To me, it feels like we are here only for purposes of rubber stamping. I feel that is an indictment to all of us who are here, especially my colleagues as Hon. Senators because what it means is that we come here for purposes of not rubber stamping from a party perspective but rubber stamping from a perspective of individual perception of what is and what is not. As Hon. Senators, we need to look deep down at ourselves like Hon. Sen. Mavetera said yesterday, because at the end of the day what has been approved in the Lower House does not have to be approved here. We should and could have variations to it, variations of substance, substance that Hon. Sen. Mwonzora stated yesterday and if we cannot, then at the end of the day we look at ourselves and say, are we just rubber stamping what was in the Lower House?
This is what the Hon. Minister wants us to do and I feel personally, I did not debate yesterday for one reason. I feel that when any Bill comes to this House, it comes here like tablets of stone. We cannot allow for Bills to come here as tablets of stone but we should allow ourselves as Hon. Senators, old as we look, believe and old as we are that we should and the Hon. Minister should at least give variation to our concerns. I am appealing to my colleagues that when there is a variation, let us look at the good parts of the Bill and also at the bad parts. The bad parts allow us to vary them. Let them not come here as tablets of stone as if we are here to rubber stamp. We are not here for that – old as we are and please, whether you are ZANU PF, MDC or chiefs, let us not … - [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – Let us not and in no terms allow to be abused for that purpose. Thank you. - [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, order! Oh, you are actually through, I wanted to say order! You were actually no longer debating the clause but anyway the Hon. Minister can respond … - [HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Sorry, I can proceed!] – I said order and the Hon. Minister is already up to respond.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, I have been in this august House several times and I have appreciated the debate from Hon. Senators. I do not think that it is a correct reflection of what happens in the Senate to say that Hon. Senators rubber stamp what would have happened from two points. The first being t the law making process. First of all, the Bill is published whether it is a constitutional Bill or an ordinary Bill. When it is published, both the Hon. Senators and Members of Parliament in the Lower House are given a copy. The process of consultation starts the moment that a Bill is published and Hon. Members who have anything to contribute – it starts from then and committee work would then start. When committee reports are produced, they are representative of the entire House and when they are tabled in the Lower House, it is just a procedure but some of the come here, sometimes appear to have less debate, is because most of the debate has been done through consultations in the Lower House with input from Hon. Senators.
So it is not very correct that Hon. Senators are there to rubber stamp. I refuse and have had a torrid time recently from Hon. Senators and some of the arguments were very credible to the extent that we agreed to say, no can we relook at this issue. So I think that you should not be too hard on yourselves and think that you are rubber stamping, unless if you feel that you have something substantial but it should not opposition for the sake of opposing just because you are afraid that you would be linked to have agreed to a position that is correct. So Hon. Chair having said that, I move that we consider the clause. I thank you Hon. Chair.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President. I propose that we divide the House on this particular clause. What we see in the whole Bill changing, if we vote for the whole Bill, we might have divided minds but on this particular clause, if we divide the House, we might be able to allow people to have a reasonable choice. If we vote for the whole Bill, you might mix up, may be you want women or you want something and I propose that for the advantage of trying to allow people to choose correctly, we divide the House on this one. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I have listened very carefully to the submissions of the Hon Minister to try to clarify the essence of that variation which we are trying to introduce in this clause. Before we do that, I would like the Minister to clarify, I think I tried, I laboured and I failed to come to reconcile myself on what the Minister is trying to explain. At first it was quite clear that the term limit of Judges is limited by two things. First is the time period, if he has served for 15 years, you automatically go. Then the second bit is when you reach 70 years, even before you served for 15 years, so in essence there are two conditions for which the Judge can leave office. That is first having served for 15 years, then if you are unfortunate to be appointed when you have got less than 15 years to serve you have got to go.
At first I thought the Minister said it but later on, it was almost like the only condition for term limit of a Judge is the time period, which is 15 years. This is wrong, I will refer you to Section 186 of the Constitution where it is written ‘Tenure of Office of Judges’. Judges of the Constitutional Courts are appointed for a non-renewable term of not more than 15 years but ‘(a) they must retire earlier if they reach the age of 70 years. (b) After completion of their term, they may be appointed as Judges of the Supreme Court or High Court at their option, if they are eligible for that appointment’. How I am understanding this is, there are two conditions of the term limits of Constitutional Court Judges. One is the 15 years, then 70 years and if you have not reached 70 years by the time you served 15 years, you automatically go, like the Minister rightly said. So, you automatically cannot serve in the Constitutional Court but you can be appointed in a Lower Court at your volition.
Definitely, there is a problem with what the Minister is trying to work up for us to be convinced. When you now say a Judge who reached 70 years can have his one year renewal up to five years, we are actually extending the term. There is no doubt, so we are effectively amending Minister. Let us look at it, we are amending and if you were not amending, there is no clarity which you are bringing in, if it was already incorporated. I would want the Minister to respond to that and with my lay understanding of the law, after all the Constitution does not need lawyers because it is meant for ordinary people. This is why it is written in simple English.
So we can never pretend that we are not amending the Constitution, saying we are trying to clarify. There is no clarification, it is purely and straight forward amendment. So, if we take it from there that we are amending, then there are certain implications of what we are doing. Then we need to relook and say are we doing it properly. We may appear as if we are disagreeing but we may not be disagreeing at the end result but we are disagreeing on allowing something which is not proper to be endorsed by this august House. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. In my first response, I indicated that the problem that is happening with us is we are conflating term limit and tenure. If you go to Section 186, it does not say ‘term limit of Judges’, it says ‘tenure of office of Judges’. Then it distinguishes two tenures. One which is term limit of 15 years; to say if you are a Constitutional Court Judge, you are appointed today, you serve for 15 years then you go. Then it says, over and above your term limit, even if you have not served 15 years and you reach 70 years, a retirement age – so there are two issues here. There is a retirement age and term limit, which is 15 years. Only Judges of the Constitutional Court have a term limit.
That is why you often hear people talking of two-five year terms. You do not hear people saying 20 retirement terms. They simply say, when I reach 55 years, I retire. When I reach 65 years, I retire. It is not referred to as a term limit. You retire at a certain age. So, what this section which you quote, which is the problem which is happening here, it says “Judges of the Constitutional Court are appointed for a non-renewable term of not more than 15 years”. So, for 15 years, you are out. It is a term. They must retire if they reach the age of 70, retirement age, that is what it says. Judges retire at a certain age and it should not be confused with a term limit. That is the point that I was trying to clarify. Earlier on when I was making reference to section 328, it refers to term limits and I said the term limit of 15 years, we are not touching. If you serve 15 years, you go. So the provision of section 328 as regards those that would have their terms extended has not been altered, it is as it is, but if we had said we are removing the provisions for 15 years and then we say our judges must benefit from that provision, we will be violating section 328.
All we are saying is if you are a Constitutional Court judge, you serve for 15 years but the retirement age is what we are upping from 70 to 75. So if you serve your 15 years, at 70 you go. Serve 15 years at 60 you have served 15 years - you go, but at 70 you have served 10 years a Constitutional Court judge, you can still serve the other five.
So there are two issues, term limit 15 years and tenure of all the other judges from appointment until 75. That is the new proposition that we are giving. I thank you Hon. Chair.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): We have been debating the same clause since yesterday, so we should think of how we bring closure to this debate on just one clause. We cannot take 48 hours on one clause. I think whoever wants to contribute should make sure that they are coming up with a totally new dimension to the debate on this clause.
Listen to the Minister because the questions are essentially of the same character and substance. The Minister is repeating so many times the same thing about what tenure means. It is just repetition of the same thing. Nothing new is coming out. So those that we want to give the floor , mindful of the fact that if there is nothing additional to what we have already heard, please restrain yourself. It is better we move to the rules which are that we have not agreed and then we go for a division. That is the only way to move ahead. We are going round and round. We go for a division.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Mr. President. At this point in time let me just say the impression created here is that we are up against the Minister. No, this debate is about the relationship between the National Assembly Chamber of Parliament and the Senate Chamber of Parliament. The age limit of being in the National Assembly are different from the age limit of being in the Senate for a reason. Members of the Senate are supposed to be wiser and they are supposed to douse or to tamper the excitability of the Lower House. So this Senate acts as a sieve.
This is what the Lower House did. When the Bill was presented to it, the Speaker, according to the law, gazetted the Bill and gave 90 days notice to the people of Zimbabwe of what the Bill was containing. That was correct. No one is quarrelling with that, but when the Bill came to the National Assembly, the same National Assembly - in its lack of wisdom, introduced the clause that we are fighting about here. This clause was not gazetted, it was not original. It is a clause that was generated by the National Assembly. Whether it came from the Minister or it came from a Member of the National Assembly, what we know is that it was born in the National Assembly.
Now the National Assembly, as I will show, has introduced something completely illegal, completely unwise and we are sitting as the Senate. It is our responsibility to correct that. The clause that the Minister was talking about raising the age limit of the judges, yes, they have raised the age limit of the judges, but what this clause does now is that it extends terms of office. Hon. Minister if I am 60 years and I must retire at 70, my tenure is 10 years. If I am 69 and I must retire at 70 my term of office is one year. If I am 40 and I must retire at 70 my tenure is 30 years. So when you extend that, you have extended the terms. Tenure means terms.
We are saying now that it amends a term limit, it is an amendment of section 328 and in terms of our law there are three clauses that can be amended only by referendum - the first clauses are the clauses dealing with human rights, the second clauses are the clauses dealing with the land and the third clause is the clause dealing with term limits. They require a referendum and that is clear and the National Assembly did not take that into account.
Hon. Minister, almost everything in your Bill has sailed except that clause, that naughty clause that has divided the Senate and you have extended the tenure of the judges anyway by raising the age limit. On top of that, there is then this continuation of office of judges. You are in fact extending twice and that is the reason why there is this disagreement.
Mr. President Sir, as I said before, it opens a dangerous precedence. If you allow the National Assembly to extend term limits, you are opening a dangerous precedence. Where are they going to end? Today they have extended term limits for judges, tomorrow they will do it for Commissioners, the President and they will do it for everybody else. The National Assembly does not have that power. I have taken it away from the Minister. Maybe in the National Assembly there was majority there. They were wrong, they cannot extend term limits and what we are asking the Hon. Minister to do is to take it back to expunge that offending clause and it is a very small clause for that matter. As I said yesterday, it is also unnecessary. It is an unnecessary clause and according to the Minister, it is just an explanatory clause. The law does not explain itself. When you see a legal clause explaining itself, it is bad at law. The people who should explain and interpret are courts of law. When you see a legal clause taking the place of a court of law, you are on your way to trouble. We are saying take that clause back to the National Assembly and expunge it. We in the Senate who are supposed at law to be wiser, have looked at it and we have seen that it is unconscionable. It is breaching the Constitution and we want it taken back. You can take it back next week and once you deal with it you can bring it back here and we can do justice to it.
In conclusion, I want to say what has happened is that the Minister is telling us that no matter how compelling our arguments, the moment it comes from the National Assembly, it is written in stone as Hon. Sen. Mavetera has aptly put it. It is not written in stone. What has come from the National Assembly, if it is seen to be unwise, unconstitutional or to be unnecessarily oppressive must go back? Whoever was the MP who brought it did not look at the ramifications of this clause.
We are saying that it should go back to the National Assembly and please do not get us wrong; it is not the entire Bill. It is that strange clause in the Bill, the clause which was not there but was smuggled and the clause was hidden away from the people of Zimbabwe because all the clauses were shown to the people of Zimbabwe through the gazetted provisions.
This one was hidden in the pocket. That hidden clause is the clause we want to go back to the National Assembly and the National Assembly must think again because we the elders have rejected it. This is the way I want us to look at it because we do not want to open a precedent that the National Assembly can do wrong things. When it comes to the Senate, there is no correction because it is inconvenient.
I think Hon. Minister, we are not in a hurry here. Let us do the correct thing and take it to the National Assembly next week, convene it, deal with it; and it is one clause after all and then bring it here. That is all we are asking you to do. We want to vote in harmony and we want to vote together with everybody else but here is something wrong and our responsibility as an opposition and as legislators is to point that out. We will fail in our duty if we do not perform this important function. This clause is irresponsible, wrong, unlawful, unconstitutional and must go back. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: At least Hon. Sen. Mwonzora tried to bring some new dimensions. Hon. Sen. Mpofu, let me give the Hon. Minister to respond in case you may be satisfied after his response and maybe he can close the whole thing.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. The first thing that I have to say is the interpretation from philosophy of legislation...
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Minister, can I say something. I think we have debated enough. At this point, if you do not agree with Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, please be very brief and we declare disagreement and we move on. We do not want to go back again into the philosophy. I think we have shared enough already. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much for the protection. Just one thing Hon. Chair – in interpretation of legislation, the thinking is –you will have the literal interpretation and then you ask yourself what was the intention of the legislature. When we as the legislature put our intention clear, I think it is not correct to say that it is not our duty to make our intention as clear as possible. Most of the time provisions are included in laws to avoid misinterpretation and this is done out of abundance of caution.
This is exactly what was done at the end of this clause. This is common practice and this is what the present clause seeks to do and I have already explained like you rightly said. I have noticed that we are concentrating on the last part that is trying to explain what we have done and they are in agreement that it is alright to leave this and you remove this. What they are simply saying is that the explanation above has not tempered with Section 328 (7), but what has been tempered with, it is this which we have tried to explain that notwithstanding what we have explained we have not done anything and he is not correct.
A term of office and tenure are two different things. Tenure encompasses everything and that is the reason why in this very Constitution, it says tenure of office and it distinguishes a term of 15 years and a retirement age. So for us to interpret and make sense of this provision, we cannot concentrate on subsection (4) without going through everything.
We are all in agreement that extending to 75 years is okay and leaving the term of office of 15 years for constitutional court judges is okay. I think we have agreed. Let us leave this explanatory provision so that those that are tasked with interpreting will know that the intention of the legislature was that we did not want to temper with the 15 year tenure. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President. All I wanted to ask which maybe the Minister would have clarified in his speech is to find out if for instance the judges are at the behest of the President for extension by five years. So what is harmful in using that clause rather putting it into a place of stone in a Constitution? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: We spoke about this and if you read the provisions of the clause, it speaks to what he is asking me to explain and we have already explained it and the appointment procedures or the extension procedure.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Hon. Chair, listening to the debate, this is not on Clause 13 per se, it is on Clause 13 (4), the new Clause that was smuggled into the National Assembly. That is where the difference is so that this House is focused on the issue in question.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: The disagreement is on Clause 13 (4). I do not want you to go back to debate the substance of that Clause which we have over debated already. So, let us agree that the disagreement is not on the whole Clause, it is only on Sub-Clause 4. If there is any disagreement or voting it should be on Sub-Clause 4 only.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What I wanted to say is the National Assembly did not smuggle any Clause. That is the procedure of making laws. So, I want it on record that there is no smuggling, it is the normal procedure that we do for any Bill. The only difference being that a Constitutional Bill you gazette for 90 days and an ordinary Bill you gazette for 14 days. At the Committee Stage, amendments are allowed that is according to our Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Hon. Chairperson, I call for the division of the House.
[Bells rung].
[House divided].
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, Hon. Senators. It is very important that we understand the procedures, first of all, we are all used to two thirds majority on a Constitution, but on a Clause like this one, it is only a simple majority. It is not the Constitution itself. It is when we pass the whole Constitution when we need two thirds, this is just simple majority.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Can I ask?
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: No can you listen I will explain everything. The question on which the Senate is being divided is that Clause 13 (4) stands as part of the Bill. So those who say ‘aye’, which means they support the point that Clause 13(4) should stand as part of the Bill will be to my right. Those who say ‘no’, will stand to my left – [HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Can I ask something, are we not allowed to ask for clarification as Members of Parliament.] – Order both sides will choose their own tellers. Due to the COVID-19 regulations you cannot move close together, remain where you are the tellers will come there.
AYES: 45: Hon. Sen. Chidawu O, Hon. Sen. Chikwaka Chief, Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi A, Hon. Sen. Chimutengwende C, Hon. Sen. Chirongoma J. M, Hon. Sen. Chitanga Chief, Hon. Sen. Chundu Chief, Hon. Sen. Dube A, Hon. Sen. Gumpo S, Hon. Sen. Hungwe S. O, Hon. Sen. Kambizi E, Hon. Sen. Mabika D, Hon. Sen. Makumbe Chief, Hon. Sen. Maluleke O. M, Hon. Sen. Mapungwana Chief, Hon. Sen. Masendu Chief, Hon. Sen. Mathema C, Hon. Sen. Mathuphula Chief, Hon. Sen. Mathuthu T, Hon. Sen. Matiirira A. Hon. Sen. Matuke L, Hon. Sen. Mavhunga M, Hon. Sen. Mavima L. D, Hon. Sen. Mkwebu A, Hon. Sen. Mohadi T. B, Hon. Sen. Moyo S. K, Hon. Sen. Mpofu S, Hon. Sen. Munzverengwi A, Hon. Sen. Mupfumira P, Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa M, Hon. Sen. Muzenda T. V, Hon. Sen. Ndlovu M, Hon. Sen. Nechombo Chief, Hon. Sen. Nembire Chief, Hon. Sen. Ngezi Chief, Hon. Sen. Ngungumbane Chief, Hon. Sen. Nhema Chief, Hon. Sen. Ntabeni Chief, Hon. Sen. Nyangazonke Chief, Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa D. P, Hon. Sen. Sekeramayi S. T, Hon. Sen. Shumba C, Hon. Sen. Siansali Chief, Hon. Sen. Tongogara A. K, Hon. Sen. Tsomondo B.
Teller: Hon. Sen. T. V. Muzenda
NOES: 19: Hon. Sen. Chifamba J, Hon. Sen. Chinake V, Hon. Sen. Chisorochengwe T, Hon. Sen. Denga P, Hon. Sen. Dube M. R, Hon. Sen. Femai M, Hon. Sen. Gweshe K, Hon. Sen. Komichi M, Hon. Sen. Mavetera T. Dr, Hon. Sen. Moeketsi V, Hon. Sen. Moyo G, Hon. Sen. Moyo T, Hon. Sen. Mpofu B, Hon. Sen. Mudzuri E, Hon. Sen. Muronzi M, Hon. Sen. Mwonzora D. T, Ndlovu D. M, Hon. Sen. Nyathi R, Hon. Sen. Rwambiwa E.
Tellers: Hon. Sen. Dr. Mavetera
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Senators, the results of the count is that 45 Hon. Senators have voted in favour of Clause 13(4) and 19 have voted against - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear] - Therefore, Clause 13(4) stands part of the Bill - [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Order, with all these lively debates and intellectual discourse since yesterday, we can now proceed in a more relaxed fashion very fast.
Clauses 14 to 25 put and agreed to.
First Schedule put and agreed to.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: Tuesday, 4th May, 2021.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the Senate adjourned at Eight Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 4th May, 2021.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 27th April, 2021
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 3 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 4 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 23A, 2019].
Fourth Order read: Second Reading: Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill, [H. B. 23A, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam President Ma’am. Madam President, I rise to give my Second Reading Speech for the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment (No. 2) Bill, [H. B. 23A, 2019].
Madam President, Hon. Senators, the Bill before you is the fruit of a review conducted by my Ministry with all interested stakeholders on the operation to date of the Constitution. The Constitution, as you know, entered into force in 2013, and has been amended once before. In the course of the review, certain imperfections and areas for improvement came to light, which I now have the honour of seeking your assistance to put right by means of this Bill before you.
The provisions of the Bill are adequately explained in the Explanatory Memorandum. My purpose is simply to bring to your attention the most salient features of the Bill and to explain the purpose or policy behind them. In doing so, I will not follow the order of the Bill but rather, the order of their importance.
Starting with the Presidium, it is proposed to do away with the “running mate” provision of the Constitution, which compels the President to be elected on the same ticket with two Vice-Presidents, a first Vice-President and a second Vice-President. This is contrary to the practice of our SADC partners, where the President appoints the other members of the Presidium. The President ought to have the freedom to choose, at any time, the Vice President he is comfortable to work with. Clause 3, 4 and 5 provide accordingly.
Madam President, of most concern to the female Members of Parliament is the proposal to extend the provision for the indirect election of an additional 60 female Members of the National Assembly from the life of the first two parliaments after the effective date, (22 August, 2013) to the first four parliaments after that date, that is to say until 2033. By that date, we hope that women will be able to participate on an equal footing with men in politics without the assistance of this provision.
Equally pleasing to female Members of Parliament is the amendment to Section 277 of the Constitution that was adopted in the National Assembly with cross-party support. I am talking about the proposal to provide that one third of the membership of all local councils be composed of women on the basis of indirect election using a party list system.
Madam President, Hon. Senators, I am sure that Hon. Senators will agree that our Local Government will greatly benefit by the contribution of mothers, wives and working women in the deliberations of local councils, for it is at this level that women encounter many of the challenges they are faced with at home, such as the provision or lack of provision of proper housing, water provision, sanitation, waste collection, clinical care and other services. Let me Madam President briefly address at this point the objection that this amendment was introduced despite its not having been notified 30 days beforehand, which is the general requirement for constitutional amendment Bills. I do so in the knowledge that my words here in this Chamber can be used in arguments before our courts about the validity of the amendment to Section 277.
Firstly, our Constitution does not speak to the case where Parliament, in the exercise of its sovereign legislative power, chooses to amend at Committee Stage additional sections of the Constitution not included in the original Constitutional Bill. If the Constitution had intended to limit the exercise of Parliament’s sovereign power in this way, it should have done so in express words.
Secondly, the 30 day waiting period for Constitutional Bills was intended to prevent the mischief of the Government in power “sneaking in” amendments to the Constitution without giving public notice or opportunity to comment upon them. In answer, let me say that a “mischief” must be attended by some “bad faith” on the part of Government to trick or hoodwink the public. Hon. Senators, there was no bad faith attaching to the introduction of this amendment.
Madam President, on ordinary Bills, the requirement is that you have a 14 day waiting period; neither are our Standing Rules nor the Constitution say Hon. Members cannot bring in amendments at Committee Stage. It has been the practice and custom within the two Houses that Hon. Members at Committee Stage can propose amendments to the House and our Standing Orders do not prohibit that. So I hope that has been cleared. It was proposed by a member of the opposition and adopted by the whole National Assembly in good faith as a measure to promote the equality and well-being of the women of our country. On that basis, I can say that the introduction is constitutionally, politically and morally sound.
Madam President, I will now turn to the Judiciary. It is our opinion, widely shared by many that it is not proper or dignified for sitting judges of the Judiciary who are in line for promotion to a higher court to compete with each other by means of a public interview process. The Bill will exempt sitting judges from undergoing public interviews in these circumstances. Another amendment affecting the Judiciary is the one allowing judges to serve beyond 70 years of age to the age of 75, subject to a one time medical fitness report on the judge’s mental and physical capacity to continue in office until that age.
Madam President, the Prosecutor General is the subject of an amendment to Section 259 of the Constitution. We do not believe it is right to treat this post, albeit a very important one, on the same level as a member of the Judiciary in every respect, especially as regards his or her appointment and dismissal. Accordingly, it is proposed that the President should appoint him or her on the advice of the Judicial Service Commission alone. The question of the removal of the PG should not be the subject of consideration by a tribunal on the same footing as the removal of a judge, but a special tribunal with more limited scope for compelling the retention or removal of the PG.
Madam President, let me now draw your attention to the proposed amendment to Section 268 of the Constitution. It is noteworthy that in the Constitution, the Provincial Councils as presently constituted are top heavy with representatives from the national Parliament; namely the Senators elected from the province concerned, two Senator Chiefs from the province concerned, all the members of the National Assembly falling within the province concerned and so on. It is almost as if the provincial council is a clone of the national Parliament at provincial level. This contradicts the principle of parliamentary oversight of the operations of provincial, metropolitan and local authorities.
The amendment therefore limits provincial representation to mayors and chairpersons of urban and local authorities of the appropriate province and the ten indirectly elected persons drawn from the party-list for that province. Madam President, while I am still on this, let me also add that it does not mean that the Hon. MPs and the Senator Chiefs are prohibited from sitting at provincial council meetings. Just like the practice that is currently there, Hon. Senators and MPs can sit in council meetings, but they do not vote. What we are simply saying is they can sit but they should not vote because of the oversight role that they play at the national level.
Madam President, before concluding, I will briefly advert to two other amendments introduced in the House of Assembly, namely the removal of Clause 12, which would have delinked the delimitation of electoral boundaries from the census process and the removal of Clauses 17 and 18 on the establishment of the office of Public Protector. We now feel the Human Rights Commission should be fully capacitated to look into complaints of maladministration. With that Madam President, I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing the Bill into this august Senate so that we can add our views. I want to start by saying that the background of the national Constitution that we unanimously voted for in 2013 which was people driven – is very important. It must be applauded that the people of Zimbabwe in Chiendambuya, Tsholotsho, Binga and other rural areas were able to add their views to the Constitution.
What we are saying is that the historical background of this Constitution came from the people. People said that for the country to be well managed, and for us to have confidence in the leadership; we came up with the Constitution. For sure we sat down and it was a people driven project. On coming up with this Constitution, we had learnt a lot from the governance that was in place before this Constitution. We also realised that if power lies in the hands of one person, it can be too much and leads to corruption by one person. Power is sweet and can lead to corruption.
We said was that power that was vested in one person should be divided among other arms of the State which are the Judiciary, Parliament and the Executive, including independent Commissions. The powers that were taken and were being used during the old dispensation were too many. The President had too much power before the new dispensation and it created what we call a big man. In other words, it created a dictator. People become frightened when the Constitution is amended. The powers that were stripped from one person are now going back to that person.
Power that had been given to the people to craft this Constitution is now being taken and put in the Office of the President. It has been taken from Parliament to the Office of the President but what we are saying is that the power of Parliament is derived from the people. The power of the President is derived from the people as well and the judiciary derives its power from the people. So why are we then today taking that power which we had given to the nation to oversee and putting them in one office? This frightens us the people of Zimbabwe when the powers that had been availed by the new Constitution are being withdrawn.
If we are to amend the Constitution now, it will likely lead to more problems in the future. What has gone wrong Madam President? Section 98 on the running mate states that the President is supposed to pick two Vice Presidents and the choice is his. He has the privilege of choosing two Vice Presidents. It also states that one should be the First Vice President and the other Second Vice President. Why is it that now we want to change and amend the Constitution? We are saying that when you go for elections, the three of you should all contest. We are giving powers to say that if a person is elected to power, he now has the powers to say that I do not want this Vice President. What if we meet out there and clash on other interests that are not really to do with governance? I can have the power to dismiss you as the Vice President. If you give me such powers, I can do whatever I want and can use the Constitution to fight my personal vendettas against people.
Section 101 of the Constitution talks about smooth succession, which is good in the event that the President dies or becomes incapacitated. The first Vice President will become the President and that provides for smooth transition on succession. It does not waste time nor does it cause any stagnation in the nation. When the late President Magufuli passed away, the following day Madame President was sworn-in and there was no problem. We also witnessed that in Malawi when the late Bingu-wa-Mutharika passed on; Joyce Banda smoothly took over. So why can we not do the same as Zimbabwe? Do we think that when people are chosen as the First and Second Vice Presidents, they become enemies of the President of the nation yet we will have chosen that person through our system? So the examples of countries that I have given – United States of America does the same thing whereby if the President becomes incapacitated, the Vice President takes over.
We thought that we had modernised our way of life and had done away with the issue of fighting for positions. In my opinion, I think that it is not right for us to meddle with power of the Constitution. I do not think that it is right to withdraw these powers from the people. I fear creating dictatorship and also the challenges that we faced during the old dispensation – we do not want to see that. Why should we pile power in one office? When we share, there is smooth running of the country. We are happy with the Government of the day because we were using the Constitution but tomorrow if we encounter any conflict or challenges, we will not be able to solve them.
On the issue of judges that has been mentioned, the Constitution states that the power of the judiciary comes from the people, meaning that people hold power in this institution. Why is it that these people no longer have the power to select the judges? What is the problem? Our Constitution is very clear. We should not change things. We used it when we nominated Chief Justice Malaba and we were all happy because people were involved. This is to say that when a judge is elected through the public process, that judge is accountable to the people. A judge should not be accountable to a person because once a judge is accountable to a person the independence of the judiciary is compromised.
The Constitution also talks of independence of the judiciary. Why are we meddling with the independence of the judiciary? What has gone wrong? We do not even have a historical background of the challenges that have been faced because of this clause. Is there anywhere where we are regretting what has been done so far? Why do we want the judge to be appointed? If I am appointed as a judge, tomorrow I will put my trust in the person who appointed me and it will compromise my professionalism because when his relatives appear before me, I am forced to be biased and a sense of patronage is created within the system. The sitting judges will end up acting in a manner that seeks promotion and they will no longer have that independence to do their work. So we want to encourage separation of the three arms of the State; that is the Judiciary, Parliament and the Executive. When we do that, we are going to create a system whereby the three arms will be accountable and taking orders from the other arm of the State. Power must be distributed among the three arms of the State, which should be independent. These two sections, I feel we need to reconsider them. With these few words Madam President, I thank you for the time that you have given me.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my views to the amendment of the Constitution. I want to thank the Minister who has brought such an important Bill. In my opinion, the President is the Head of State. So, as the Head of State, he cannot lose his powers to his wife and for the wife to think that she and the husband are equal is not possible. So, the President should have the powers as the head. If we take away powers from the President because we want to please the people, I think we have lost it. The amendment is good because when we look at the President and the powers that we are giving him, there is no way he can forget his people. He should be given the right to choose people whom he can work with. Most of the Judges went through interviews. Now it is the duty of the President to see who has the capacity to run the Judiciary.
The President should be given powers to execute his mandate as the Head of State. If we look at the issue of the Vice Presidents that was mentioned, we cannot say that they should all be voted in by the people. One should be number one and the other one is number two, what if number one is beaten? So, if the President wants to work on certain programmes, he might have challenges. So, the President should have the right to choose who he wants to work with. Madam President, I support the amendments that were made to the Constitution. If we look at the women’s quota system, I think that is the best way to go. We cannot expect women to go and context with our male counterparts and win. They have everything to run us down and we will not win any constituencies but because of the quota system, our numbers in Parliament can also increase. This will prepare us to go and face those constituencies in future. I do not want to say a lot of words. All I want to say is that I support the amendments that have been brought by the Minister. That is splendid and it is good for us as the people of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to also contribute on the motion that was brought by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I would like to thank the Minister for moving this motion of the amendment of the Constitution. We are grateful for the extension of women’s quota by two terms. We are also grateful for the youth quota because 70% of the population is youths. I actually support this Bill and say the Minister has brought a very good Bill. I have decided to debate in my indigenous language so that I can be heard properly. Let the President appoint his deputies. I thank you
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Minister for the Bill that he has brought to this House. It is indeed important for us to add our voice to this debate. As representatives of the people, we were sent by the people to come and represent them. We are here to represent the people. The Constitution was crafted in 2013 and we all agreed that, that is what we want. We must adhere to the Constitution. We have not gone back to the people to tell them the status right now and we are already changing what they said. I do not think it is right. This came from the people and we should take it back to the people. I think if we take it to the people, I see us progressing well.
If we give power to one office or one person, that office or person will be overloaded. What we should do is to take our issues to the people and agree and work together. Let us govern with what has come from the people because the people are the Government themselves. So, let us engage in amendments that will build Zimbabwe. Let us not come here to destroy. We were sent to represent people and to do what is right for them. So I think we need to consult the people for our work to progress well. What we have in here is like having honey that is filled with sand. So, I think we need to work together and go back to the people. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President. My contribution today is to appeal to Senators. This is the Upper House where serious decisions must be made. The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs has just said he wanted to cure certain mischiefs on allowing the President to have his choice. Is he arguing that the whole Constitution which was tabled before a referendum – people were not thinking? They could not think that the President will not get someone to rule. Has he checked on the best practice elsewhere?
However, what I understand by running mate as done in the United States is that the running mate is chosen by the President himself. So I am not sure what mischief we are trying to cure or we are just interested in bringing in a Bill. If there is some other mischief we want to cure, let us not do it for a person, let us do it for the country.
Hon. Members, we shall be written in history as people who came here to agree on things that are destroying the country. The whole process of the constitutional amendment took years, more than 10 or 20 years, because you remember there was NCA, there were so many Commissions trying to change the Constitution so as to turn one president who lasted us almost 40 years and now we are calling ourselves a dispensation in less than 10 years after having a Constitution without even practicing the constitutional requirement once and seeing its shortfalls, we are already changing it. I want to appeal to you, Mr. President and Hon. Senators that let us not just do it for the sake of doing it, let us do it for the sake of the country. Let us try it first and as my colleagues have argued, how much consultation have we done to bring this amendment to this House?
Secondly, I am not sure what mischief we are also curing on the Judiciary system. If we thought the interview by the public might not be adequate, maybe we should have asked Parliament to interview the judges What is the best practice elsewhere in terms of getting judges? Why were they subjected to the public? So that they will behave and when they are making judgments they know that for their promotion they will still need public opinion which makes them answerable to the public. So I am not so sure what mischief we are also curing because the President has still got a choice after three judges have been chosen. The President has that choice. To me, we are just changing for the sake of changing. If you look at what we have done with our local authorities, there is a clause which was introduced just to get rid of Kombayi, there was a clause that was done to just get rid of Mudzuri and there was a clause just to try to get rid of the last mayor, Ben Manyenyeni.
Let us not bring in laws that we want to get rid of a particular situation. Let us make laws that will make sure they last for tomorrow. I am not sure why we lumped all these changes together. There are certain changes that you might think are to advance the nation like the quota system for women where we see that yes, we have practiced it for two terms, we see the advantages and we can now alter it and maybe allow it to go on. That would be a good introduction, giving reasons of what we have seen that at least we have managed to bring in more women into Parliament. However, you have now lumped this so that when people vote, they do not even know which one to vote for. You might not agree with certain things and you want to agree with certain things. This amendment, the way it is being put is either to force people by trying to please one small community but also failing the whole nation.
Mr. President, I feel that we need to look at devolution separately as well rather than the way we have looked at it. All we need to do is look at best practices and what is to the advantage of many. I do not mind the changes in the local government system but we have not tried anything or we have not even discussed anything to say, what are we bringing to Parliament to ensure that these changes are to the advantage of the people.
We represent people here but sometimes we are naughty and we end up representing ourselves and our selfish ends. Zimbabwe will not get far if we represent our selfish acts and we do not behave like nationalists. Nationalists sometimes do not agree with their Governments for the sake of progress and I expect that we are nationalists and we will not agree with our Government for the sake of progress and for the sake of our people. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you very much Mr. President for giving me this opportunity. Mr. President allow me to say the Senate, this august House has got an onerous task to make progressive laws to serve Zimbabwe or to destroy Zimbabwe and for making a better future for the country we need to remove all our destructive interests and be patriotic in ways.
Mr. President, there is nothing wrong about amending a Constitution, provided it is in the interest of the nation, but there must be reasons. A Constitution is a strategic document, it is the one which creates us, it is the one which has created a state called Zimbabwe and it cannot be just easily amended because probably I have had a nice dream and want to change the whole Constitution. Mr. President, I do not want to go down memory lane of how we came up with the 2013 Constitution which was a protracted struggle and with a lot of changes to the country. I do not want to go to the negative ramifications which came as a result of the bad Constitution which we had.
Allow me Mr. President to refer to one of my icons, the late Hon. Edson Zvobgo…
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order! Hon. Sen. Mudzuri, can you please switch off your microphone?
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President. I said allow me to just refer to the memory lane and refer to one of my revered icon, Dr. Edson Zvobgo during the passage of the Executive Presidency. He said that was the darkest moment in the history of post independent Zimbabwe and that passage of the Bill of the Executive Presidency was an assault on democracy and human liberty.
Mr. President, the late Dr. Zvobgo, his prophecy came to fruition. We created a monster that brought a lot of problems to the country but he was referring to the Constitution. It is like a devil referring to the Bible to justify his ends. Zimbabweans at this stage, I do not think that the wounds have healed and I do not think that our memories have lapsed.
The 2013 Constitution people were very conscious of what they wanted and that Constitution has got a history. That is why if you refer to our current Constitution, one of the founding values and principles which is what should define Zimbabweans, is the separation of powers. That is Section (3) of the Constitution on our Founding Values, specifically Section (3) (2) (e) – respect of the principle or doctrine of separation of powers. Why is it that we know that absolute power corrupts?
If I can now zoom to a specific Section 92 of the running mate clause - I do not think we have got such amnesia as a nation to forget what befell the nation. There was wisdom in all this. We cannot have a whole nation - if the President resigns or dies, we cannot have a President who is chosen by a single person. That is completely unheard of. Let us not - and allow me Mr. President to quote in Shona ‘kuti tiite nyika sehuku inongoona painoteterera, painodyira tisingaone zvemberi’. There is wisdom in the clause for a running mate. People have to know who will take over their country when the incumbent either resigns or dies not because he has been chosen by the incumbent.
I do not want to be reminded of the most embarrassing situation that I experienced as a peace loving and patriotic Zimbabwean where in the previous dispensation, we had a whole State Vice President being embarrassed in public and being told by the First Lady to say, ‘you work at the mercy of the President’. That is demeaning to Zimbabweans and we cannot allow that to repeat itself. That is some of the wisdom brains behind the people of Zimbabwe coming up with a running mate clause.
We know that power corrupts and we note the duty of a Vice- President is to advise and assist the President with an independent mind, not that if I clash with the President then I will be fired and probably if you are unfortunate you may have to jump borders like what happened here. We cannot allow that to repeat history- such a bad portion of our history to be repeated again Mr. President. The only vaccination against that happening is to stick to what people chose. Let us not abuse our representation as Parliament to say because we have got a majority and people vote for such unprogressive laws.
We definitely need to open our minds. Unfortunately, politics is very funny. There are factions and counter-factions. The people who are supporting it today, tomorrow will be haunted chimbwa chawakarera nemukaka chaakukuruma. That is the beauty about politics. Can we protect the people of Zimbabwe and the nation called Zimbabwe. There are three pillars which defines a State. There is the Judiciary, the Executive and the Legislature. There was wisdom by the people when they said they had to have a say in choosing those separately.
When you have the President appointing the Judiciary, we have got a problem. Where is that independence? One who appoints can disappoint and inzara, allow me to use it in quotes ‘Ndinopedzisira ndoita zvokuti vana vararame’ but not what is good for them because I am afraid of being dismissed and disappointed because I have just decided to give an independent opinion which is contrary to the one who is in power.
I think this example for a running mate clause has been given for smooth transition of power. I cannot go and over emphasise on that. I will point outside borders that happened in the United States of America when we had a rogue President called Donald Trump who wanted to go against all the norms of a progressive democracy and instigated insurrection against the State. We had a patriotic American in the name of his Vice President Mike Pence who refused to follow his orders. He refused because he was protected by the Constitution. Zimbabwe must learn what is good.
I think as a nation, we hope to go onto the next level. Definitely, this is a very unpopular clause and I am not a prophet of doom, but we will have civil societies and people also starting to fight, and we start again to create the NCA history. Will that benefit Zimbabwe? I appeal to Hon. Members, I know we have got party jackets but those jackets are not above national jackets. This is an onerous responsibility bestowed on us to defend the institution called Zimbabwe and this is one of the oath which we took, being to protect Zimbabweans.
My primary duty among others is to protect progressive aspects of the Constitution. As I said on my initial presentation, it is normal and legal to amend the Constitution but there have to be reasons. With due respect to my Hon. Minister and others, he gave a good example for provincial councils. I agree with him because he had reasons but he was shy of telling us the progressive nature or what Zimbabwe is going to get in removing the running mate clause.
I think like my colleagues who spoke before me said we do not create a law for someone and a law is better because it can be amended easily, but we cannot change a Constitution to target a particular person or particular group. Zimbabwe belongs to everyone and my fear is actually being confirmed. If we give people who may not be responsible enough, we may have problems but I believe the incumbent President may not be that person because he suffered. If he was within us here, debating this Clause, he might probably be on my corner because he would be talking from experience, walking the talk unlike some of us who are seeing from the terraces.
The office of the Presidency, that includes the Vice-Presidents, it is sacrosanct and is a pillar. It defines stability of the institution and it has to be safeguarded and protected by law, not to produce any laws which are so loose. This means if the President just wakes up and he is not happy with his Vice-President, he can dismiss the Vice-President. We are saying no, the President cannot dismiss the Vice-President and choose his close friends or someone because we cannot have Zimbabwe being run by a President who is elected by one person. We are not looking for a sabhuku, we are looking for a Head of State. That is serious and we need really to go beyond our personal interests and put the nation first. I think on the issue Vice-Presidents, the running mate Clause, I believe I have done justice to it from a very impartial and patriotic Zimbabwean who is making use of my very little experience which I have gained. But I was fortunate to see how these laws might be abused and we are all in here for the testimony. So, do we want to go back again? I think progressively, it is a big no Mr. President.
Allow me to leave this issue and proceed to an issue of the Judiciary. Mr. President Sir, the stability of any State is dependent on the strength and independence of its Judiciary. I do not know where the wisdom of trying to protect someone who has reached 70 years instead of allowing him to go is coming from. Probably if he has got a small garden like me or a farm like others, to go and enjoy the remaining part of his life living a normal life, then he should go.
Mr. President, honestly, it defies logic, this is one of the reasons why we say in this country, gone should be the days when we enact legislation targeting a particular individual. I am wrong, I may be correct but Mr. President, as a citizen of this country, I am allowed to say what I think. This Clause, I will call it a ‘may Clause’ to try to protect certain interests. There is no reason why we can protect someone who is 70 years. Some of them have served from their 40s as High Court Judges, other Judges up to Chief Justice. Instead of allowing them to go and rest, you say we want you for five years. Honestly, what is it that he has failed to do which you want him to benefit? If you think you still need that person to service, then that person must not be performing because he should have been empowering his juniors. Because if I know I am going at the twilight of my age and the skills I have, probably I am, gifted, I will have to impart to someone and allow myself to go and rest.
Mr. President, I am very much against this extension. It actually, unfortunately, impinges on our democracy. It removes the independence of the Judiciary. With those few words, allow me to appeal to my fellow respected Hon. Members to really be independent, tisaita sehuku inongoona painodyira, pazvichapera, mangwana toenda kupi – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I thank you
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Our Constitution took many years to come up with but we finally came up with one Constitution. It should not have a lot of patches like a cloth. Once we do that, we will end up with a torn document. Now, we have a good Constitution that is good for our country. The issue of running mate, we should not even talk about its amendment when it is not even implemented. You know that a person appointed by another person has no power to do the work because he looks up to the appointing authority. My worry is that no one is prepared to lose whatever he has because once he got something; he should enjoy that work and work for his family.
Personally, I do not support the Clause on removing the running mate. I support the amendment that talks about women’s quota. Women used to be responsible for house chores but the situation now requires women to be into leadership positions. When we talk of women, their resources are not that sound, so during campaigns, they cannot reach out to people. For this reason I support the women’s quota. Now, the situation is indicating that when a woman is in leadership, you can see that things are moving on well because they understand problems faced by children and their husbands. I am grateful that the women’s quota is going to be extended by two terms. That is a very good development to ensure that there are more women in positions. Women will be speaking with one voice because they will be working together.
I would like to talk on the youth quota. We also talk of children, we always say children are tomorrow’s leaders. We should start to include women and youth in leadership positions. This will enable the youth to have proper leadership qualities. This is good, they should work for the nation and represent others in councils that we know women are being given a chance. In councils, things are just difficult; you find that where there are 24 people, only two or one is a woman. Our people are not confident with women, they are not being voted into office. With this opportunity, as in the Constitution, we are grateful for that. Let this amendment be passed. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity to also add one or two things with regards to the proposed Constitution No. 2 Amendment. Mr. President Sir, the Constitution is the bedrock of a Government in any country. Ours is a much loved and admired Constitution all over the world since our people overwhelming voted for it in 2013. I will not waste much of your time today because the disadvantage of speaking after so many brilliant speeches and speakers is that much of your points would have been taken away.
So, for that reason, I will just read here and there allowing much for the Constitution to speak for itself. Section 2 of the Constitution speaks of the supremacy of the Constitution. It says this ‘law is the supreme law of Zimbabwe and any law practice, custom or conduct inconsistent with it is invalid to the extent of the inconsistency’. Clause 2 says, ’the obligations imposed by this Constitution are binding on every person, natural or juristic including, the State and all the Executive, legislative and judicial institutions and agencies of government at every level, and must be fulfilled by them’.
So, it is clear that which the minister seeks to amend is the supreme law. I have read and I have heard speakers correctly speak about the quarter for women and for young people. Others go as far as saying they are very grateful as if this is an Act of some benevolence by some benefactor and some certain office or somewhere. Let no one be in any doubt that the extension of this quarter for women and introduction for them at councils and youths in the way it is proposed is not progressive at all.
If anything, those that say so are seeking to sell us ice blocks during a snow. Mr. President, the Constitution of Zimbabwe tells us its aims, objectives, what exactly it sought to heal the mischief when we repealed the one that preceded this one? It said when an unequal society which disadvantaged women and it sought to heal that mischief by raising women to a level of 50% representation, even in this Senate. So I want to reject it as false that there is some favour or there is something good to be gained by giving women less than 25% representation in the National Assembly because that is the current status quo.
I agree with the law but the law must say for the next two terms we raise the representation from 6 to 10 per province so that when we finish those two terms, we change the electoral law from first past the post to a proportional representation, so that we can achieve the ideas of this supreme law to a 50:50 gender representation. What I am doing here, is I realise the mistakes, it is my patriotic duty to draw all of you to the ideas of this Constitution; when it spoke about youth representation, when it said we ought to do everything possible in our power including legislation to affirm and empower the youths. Anything short of that, Mr. President Sir, it will be in violation of this Constitution. I am sure that no one will rationally disagree with me when I say that it is not true that the quarter of women was going to end in the next election in 2023 and nothing would have happened and still would have been within the constitutional order. Even the preamble, the Constitution makes it clear that it seeks to build an equal society where every man and women are representative or are represented equally.
Here in the Senate Mr. President Sir, thanks to the Zebra system, we do have a 50:50 representation of gender. However, because we have chiefs who in the main are male, it has tilted the balance again in favour of men. I make a proposition that that zebra system which we have in the Senate, it must be added to say it starts with women and end with women so instead of 3 females and 3 males, you end up with 3 males and 4 females to try and balance this gender abnormality in this Senate.
It has already been said that the Constitution is a bedrock of any Government, the agenda 2030 by His Excellency the President cannot be achieved when our women are left to occupy those roles which they occupy at the behest of us men. They need to be this attitude where we raised our mothers, sisters and grandmothers where they know that they occupy the positions they do because of their inherent right of being Zimbabwean.
As I sit down Mr. President Sir, I need to add something which has been left out when discussing the issue of the running mate. The issue of the running mate Mr. President Sir does speak to the issue of gender balance that I have been referring to. You will recall we had a Vice President in this country in the name of Hon. Joyce Mujuru. She was unceremoniously removed from her position by a very powerful President who later lived to regret that action but it was too late.
It also speaks to the issue of the historically marginalised people of Matabeleland. We had a Vice President here by the name of Mphoko. When the military intervention happened, he had to run for his life and when he came back, he was also like Hon. Mujuru removed from power and we have never heard of him. The former Vice President of the country resigned after not so pleasing details emerged about him and his private affairs. We are just over a month now and there is no replacement. The people of Matabeleland feel they are underrepresented in the Executive power of this country.
If you have a running mate clause remain in the manner it is, and I recognise that it has already been said that it is the President that chooses without anyone’s interference; what does the running mate clause do? It secures the position for women who are extremely vulnerable and the minorities – if not because of our democratic dispensation or dispossession at least by an act of God, that women may one day rise to a level where we can address and say Her Excellency Madam so and so. With the running mate clause, we can at least have someone from the minorities become a president because gender and ethnicity must have no role in the leadership and participation in a political life of our people. With these few words and I trust they are few, I want to say Mr. President “Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi amandla kuzulu.” Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for according me this opportunity to add a few words to this Bill. I first of all want to explain what the Constitution is. My predecessors also explained what a Constitution is. It is a very important document. The people of Zimbabwe in 2013 took the opportunity to craft and develop our own Constitution, and we came up with what we have today.
Mr. President Sir, on the 2013 Constitution, we consulted the people of Zimbabwe. They are the ones who crafted this Constitution. We consulted all the different sectors of the country. We went to each and every area and asked people what they wanted in the various areas. This is what came out of the consultations leading to the 2013 Constitution. What people said is that they wanted a President with full power and that is what they wanted. They said they did not want a Prime Minister but wanted a President with full power who would select those to work with him for the development of the nation. So, we do not want a situation whereby they go for voting as Vice Presidents and habour presidential ambitions. We want the President there who should be able to choose his own Vice Presidents since that is what the people said.
Even if we are to go back to consult the people, they will reiterate word for word what I have said in this House. We really want to do as the people said. The President of the nation should be the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces and all those in defence should be under him. That is what the people wanted. The President should choose his own running mates.
On the issue of judges, the people said they wanted a judge who would lead the nation of Zimbabwe but this judge was appointed through legal means, was vetted and we had the Judge President. Even his deputies are there, so it is not about changing this and that. The nation is progressing well in terms of governance because of this. We want the President to have the powers to elect judges, as people also voted for the President to choose the Judge President.
On the issue of women in our nation, they have been discriminated and have experienced a lot of challenges. In the 1960’s, they could not even acquire national identification cards even some who were as intelligence as those we have in here, do not even have national identification cards for them to come to Parliament. We slowly progressed and addressed this matter and today we have our women leaders just like what we have in this Senate today. They are leading us all and we need to celebrate this milestone.
In this august House, we have come of age and should have wisdom. We want the women in this House to be elevated. The quota system that was brought up was a splendid move to increase the number of women in Parliament. Yes, we have not yet achieved what the Constitution has mandated or provided for the 50/50 quota system. We have the quota system and we want to increase its term. We also have councillors and need more women in councils. So I think we are doing well. The young, specifically the youths, have not been heard and have now obtained a quota system. We want to give them power and leadership as we progress until 2023. We do not know what 2023 will have in store but we hope to keep progressing in terms of numbers for youth and women as well. I want to support the Bill that has been tabled by the Hon. Minister. Hon. Minister, you have tabled a very intelligent Bill.
Mr. President, on the issue of devolution, as Hon. Senators, if we are to go and assist in the development of our communities – when it comes to voting, we should not have voting powers, they should vote. I think that it is a good move Mr. President. I do not want to say a lot but want to support the points that I have hammered on that it came from the people and the people are the ones who gave us the mandate to come up with the Constitution that was passed by the people. So the President should have full power. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add a few words to this Bill and to thank the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs for tabling this amendment that is important for us as a nation. It has touched on issues that have not been included in the Constitution and has led to the amendments for the good governance of our nation.
Mr. President Sir, I applaud this amendment because at one time, I was greatly disturbed and angered by the fact that our Government does not recognise us as women. How do they view us? Do they know that there are women in this country? In reference to my council, Pfura Rural District Council, it has 40 Wards and only two women. That really disturbed me. Let me thank the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs that now this amendment is now in the Constitution, we will see more women in Local Authorities because of this amendment. Women are very hardworking Mr. President Sir. We want them to be liberated from the colonial mentality and want them in the private sector and in Government as well. So I want to thank the Hon. Minister for what he has done this afternoon.
Let me also say that there is nothing wrong in the President appointing his Vice-Presidents – I think that it is good for us as a nation. It does not mean that the Vice-Presidents will not adhere to the Constitution; they will adhere to it because they take Oath of Office before the judges that they will work for the nation as Vice-Presidents of the Presidence. As Zimbabweans, if we say that the Constitution of the United States of America is good, fine but we need to have ours in place that is driven by us. If you see what happened in Malawi between His Excellency Chakwera and Mutharika, they had different parties at the election but the current President is the one who won.
I want to thank the Hon. Minister because this amendment will give us better standing. When looking at the women’s’ quota in the National Assembly, I was disturbed when I heard that it was being removed but I am happy that the Hon. Minister stated that the women’s quota system will be extended and it is a welcome move. I also want the Hon. Minister to clarify on that women who will be going to the National Assembly will be below 32 years. Are you saying that this section will only affect women and not the men because you only mentioned the women and not the men Hon. Minister, so I just want clarity on that? Is it only the women who should be not more than 32 years of age? I appreciate that you have recognised us and we will continue being Members of Parliament.
We thank you for that Mr. President and with these few words, I thank you Mr. President and that in 2023, we will also have more women at Executive levels. We are looking forward to that because this Constitution will have been amended, so we look forward to more female ministers. We are happy that the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services are led by women and they are working very hard. We thank you that you have supported us in these positions. I just stood to support that this amendment greatly promotes women and with these few words, I thank you Mr. President Sir.
*HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity for me to put emphasis on what is in this Bill from the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who brings amendments that help us as Zimbabweans. Thank you Hon. Minister for the amendment that you tabled and this is the reason why the word ‘amendment’ exists. It means that even when we have a Constitution, an amendment can be made.
When you move around, there are certain things that you realise are a challenge. For example, you will realise that the women’s quota was only given two terms and you have realised that it is inadequate and hence extended the quota. The way that we have been brought up as Zimbabweans is that in Heaven, we have our God who is our Father, who brought us into this world. He has given us traditional leaders in our communities and leaders at national level, who follow the Constitution. For a father to be head of a home, he needs to have power. If we take our traditional leaders and say those whom you are going to rule with, we as the community have to vote for them, I do not think it will work. The leader has wisdom to know that these have wisdom, so they chose who to work with. Those are the powers we are saying should be given to the President who was put in that position by God. He should be able to choose his Vice Presidents.
If we impose on him people to work with, it becomes difficult for him to supervise them. If the head selects his own people to work with, it is easier to work with them. So, we want a President whom we have entrusted to choose his own Vice Presidents, who has the knowledge and the wisdom to know who is good in what. On the issue of the powers of the President, let us not reduce these powers. Let us not have this spirit of reducing the powers but let us trust him as the head of the nation and know that he loves everyone in the country. We should have foresight to build our nation. No father will take a mad man and put him in a leadership position. If the one he appointed fails, he does not blow the trumpet to say come and see what is happening but he will just remove that person and put someone with the capacity.
It is the same with the issue of judges, those people undergo interviews. It is like Members of Parliament, they have gone through elections and come to Parliament, so they do not have to go through more interviews but are just nominated as chief whips and the like. That is where the appointing authority comes in and the President must do likewise.
The issue of women has been debated on the councils – youths have also been mentioned and I am in support of it all. On the issue of Head of State, that is what we want. We want the Head of State to appoint those people who have the capacity. I think the running mate clause must be removed because it can derail Government and the nation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words to this Bill which was brought by the Minister. Allow me to say when we are in this House, the Senate, we are grown up people with different opinions as Senators. Mr. President, we have gone for elections, we have chosen a President, does that mean that all the things that will be done by the President, we are the ones who are going to tell him? We should give him a chance to perform his duties. He is now the head of the nation, let us let him execute his duty in the manner which is suitable for him. For those who also want to be Presidents, your time will come. I am not dismissing what others have said, but what I am saying is that as we have different views, it is important to give the President a chance as children of Zimbabwe.
Looking at it again, when the President appoints other people, he will not be alone. He will be with others to consult. Forgive me please and let me express myself as we have different opinions. On the issue of women; thank you very much Hon. Minister for bringing this Bill to this House. Women were not regarded as important. Women are relegated to domestic hands in the homestead. We want the 50/50 proportion but when we go for elections, we compete with a male who is well empowered for the race and we would not win. The President did well to have a quota specifically for women. This is excellent for us, we should not shoot ourselves in the foot by denying this amendment.
Our youths have got a very good opportunity now which has been availed to them. The youths used to be agents of violence, being used for violence and being exposed to drugs. With these few words, these are the issues that I wanted to express. The scenario we have here is that we are supposed to respect the man because he is the head of the family. He has powers and we should respect that. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Mr. President. I do not have much to say because a lot has already been said. My issue is on the issue of the Presidential appointment. My view, I am only putting emphasis on what others have said. If the President has been given power by the majority, Zimbabweans in our particular case, he has been elected into office and he has been given power to exercise that power. He should be given that chance to do so. Allow me to say in Shona we say ‘hapana ibvi, hapana mupimbira’ With reference to the Constitution and the issues being debated here, the President must be happy and do as he decides and sees fit or what is important to this nation. When he chooses his Vice Presidents, he would have consulted widely on performance of those whom he intends to appoint. Forgive me Mr. President. My father always told me this. I always asked my father, the late Hon. Vice President Muzenda on the issue of running mates. I talked to him about a lot of things and this is what he told me to say, ‘Tsitsi my daughter, for example if you have been chosen to be the President your running mate should be someone you have all your trust in. Even in your absence you should know that things will run smoothly’.
Mr. President, I would say that is very good. How come we give the President powers to choose his Cabinet. In our scenario, as a nation we see that there is development and progress through the individuals that he chose as Vice Presidents. Hon. President, I support the point that we should give all those executive powers to the President and he should exercise all those.
We are Africans, black people. As we are black people, there are things we look at thoroughly. This issue of running mates is bad when it comes to traditional leaders. The issue of running mates causes a lot of commotion, confusion and hatred. People might even die visiting traditional healers because of these positions. We will definitely kill each other because of such positions. My emphasis is that the President of the State does not choose randomly, but there is serious consultations done before getting someone into office. With these few words Mr. President, I say thank you very much for the Bill which has been brought into Parliament by the Hon. Minister.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Mr. President, allow me to respond to the debate by Hon. Senators regarding the Constitution Amendment (No. 2) Bill. I want to thank all the Hon. Senators who stood up to debate. It is a robust debate though sometimes I have noticed that some become too personal and debate on issues that they do not have knowledge on and insult certain institutions of Government unnecessarily.
On a point of correction Mr. President Sir, when there was a change over in 2017, the former Hon. Vice President was in Russia. I notice the Hon. Members sometimes get too excited because they will be standing in front of people and cameras and start attacking State institutions. This is an honourable House of Senators, vasharukwa, amheno ambotaura. He was in Russia, he was never arrested save for cases that he did that are before the courts and I cannot comment on those. I think it is improper to come here to try and please certain individuals by making allegations against State institutions for things that they did not do. I think it is not right because they do not have a right of audience here.
The military never arrested the former Vice President Mphoko. They never touched him and whatever happened happened. He was in Russia. He was in safe territory. He could even have decided to stay there; nobody was following him.
Having said that Hon. President, let me return to the substantive issues, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for his debate on issues. He particularly concentrated on issues to do with ‘we must not amend the Constitution’. He said this is a very good document and that it allows for smooth transfer of power. He cited Malawi and Tanzania as examples.
Let me start by saying if there is a clause in the Constitution that was so badly done, it is the running mate clause and let me explain. It simply says the President and Vice Presidents will be jointly elected, which means whatever electoral law that we have to make as the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, there will be the name of the President, the Vice President and another Vice President and you put an X on the three of them. What it then says now; is the President cannot remove that Vice President. This Vice President, his only function that was put in the Constitution is to assist the President but you cannot fire him if he is no longer interested in assisting you, but you must be elected jointly so that you can smuggle in something to say that because he was elected you need an impeachment process to remove him.
I am sure Hon. Senators are noticing this. The only thing that is in the Constitution is to have one ballot paper – President, Vice President, Vice President; you put an X. Are we giving voters a choice? Are they choosing a vice President and then after that, the same Constitution in section 99 says the function of the Vice President is simply to assist. Now you have a President, the assistant does not want to assist and you need an impeachment process to remove him.
So this clause was so badly done to the extent that I do not even understand why people are clamouring for it. It is one of the most useless clauses in the Constitution and it is a very good reason why Section 328 is even there on amendment. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mbohwa who said this is a Constitution Amendment Bill, which means the Constitution can be amended. The notion that we cannot amend the Constitution - I do not know where it is coming from and I have just cited that.
There was an example of Malawi. I think it is a very good case study. In Malawi, President Bingu waMutharika and Vice President Joyce Banda fell out. He could not fire her. So, she was there seated and God knows what killed President Bingu waMutharika. As soon as President Mutharika died, the party was now in a dilemma. The Vice-President was no longer with the party but because she was supposed to be made President, they agreed grudgingly and said we will wait for an election but she was now working with people who were not with her. Imagine the discord in the running of the affairs of the country, the President with lieutenants who are not with her and she now had to play politics and ensure that certain MPs defect to her, which is not necessary.
So, that example is one of the best examples to show that the running mate clause, in the form that it is in there and the form that it is in Malawi, it is one of the worst clauses for democracy. I will now go to Hon. Sen. Komichi where he spoke about Judges. I agree with him that the Constitution in terms of Section 162 says, ‘the judiciary authority is derived from the people of Zimbabwe and is vested in the courts’. This is correct. Do you know how it is vested in the courts? This is because of the electoral process.
I have always heard that there is this separation of powers, the Executive, the Judiciary and the Legislature. People forget that we are only talking about the Head of the Executive, but we forget that we have a Head of State. The President does not head the Executive only. He is called the Head of the Executive and the Commander-in-Chief. The Chief Justice, the Judiciary is appointed by the President as Head of State. So, the President is not equal to the Speaker of Parliament. The President is not equal to the Chief Justice. He is above them because he heads the Executive but he is the Head of the State.
You cannot equate him with them and so, there are certain powers that are bestowed on the President by virtue of him being the President and because of the powers that he has, hence the Constitution speaks about the judiciary authority coming from the people because he is the President who appends his signature. I agree with you and we are saying once they are interviewed at entry level, the President must be given the powers bestowed by the people of Zimbabwe to ensure that the judicial authority comes from the people and not a few selected by the President who then continuously do interviews.
The interviewing process is very pathetic to say the least and by the way, it is not the public that is interviewing. It is the Judicial Service Commission. I think let us not say that the public will be interviewing. The public will be listening to a few individuals who are interested in each other because they work with each other on a day to day basis, blasting each other in public and we smile and say this is democracy. You want me to appear before the same judge that was being told that you took a bribe or you attempted to take a bribe – why did they not address that for the dignity of the institution behind doors or they start arguing among themselves how cases are completed in court, and you say the public will comprehend what they will be talking about in interviewing processes?
That is what we are saying that at entry level, let there be interviews. On promotion, the very same Judicial Service Commission must shortlist and give the Head of State and not the Head of the Executive. So, whichever way you look at it, the appointing authority is the President. I am very happy that Hon. Komichi, while he attempted that we must not amend the Constitution, he conveniently chose to be extremely silent about the other good clauses, which shows that he was also conflicted and he agrees with everyone else that this Constitution must be improved.
I will give a good example that those that are continuously preaching the wrong gospel are wrong. When you are quoting sections of this Constitution, remember to read them in conjunction with each other so that they make sense. If you read it in isolation, it will not make sense. If you go to Section 271 on Metropolitan and Provincial Councils, I want to read it, Section 271 says ‘Committees of Provincial Councils’ and it says, ‘for the better exercise of their functions, Provincial and Metropolitan Councils may establish Committees but each such Committee must be presided over by a member referred to in Section 268 (1) (h) and or Section 269 (1) (h) as the case may be’.
We have been preached to that this is a very perfect document but in this Constitution, we do not have Section 269 (1) (h). It is missing. How do we correct it if we do not amend the Constitution? It is totally wrong to say that this is not a trouser where you put a patch. This is a pipe. You replace where there is a leakage. If you hear those who say the Constitution does not need amendment, they are making a very big mistake because a Constitution can be amended. It can be fixed unlike a water pipe.
I was listening attentively to Hon. Sen. Muzenda where she said we are Africans. The way this clause is structured is simply to tell us that if the President dies, the first Vice-President becomes the President. This is simple and nothing else. So, potentially, it creates a lot of problems and I think she explained it better than I can explain.
I also thank Hon. Sen. Dube. She supports the Bill in so far as it allows the empowerment of women to continue. Hon. Sen. Rwambiwa mentioned that people gave powers to fix this Constitution Amendment. This clause does not give the President any task but it is focusing on the President. I do not know where they are getting such a perspective to say we are giving a load of work on the President. The President is not a helper but he is the one in charge and he is the Head of the State. Even if you look at the Provisions, he cannot remove anyone.
I would like to thank the Hon. Senator because they fully understand what it means and what we are trying to do. Hon. Sen. Mudzuri, I think I have answered some of the issues. He is totally wrong in that he thinks that the running mate clause is a silver bullet. It is actually a hopeless Clause, we do not even know what we were thinking because we did not do any justice to explain what we want to achieve by it. He said we must do consultations. Mr. President, consultations here done, the amendment procedure for a Constitutional Bill is very different from the amendment procedure or the enactment of any legislation. It allows for consultations. The Constitution clearly indicates that certain Sections you need two-thirds majority, certain sections you need a referendum, which is going back to the people. So I do not know why Hon. Sen. Mudzuri was now confused about consultations. It makes provision for those Sections of the Constitution that have got entrenched provisions where you need two-thirds plus a referendum. In this case, this one is very clear….
Cellphone rang.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order I do not have to keep reminding the Hon. Senators that when you come into the House, switch off your cellphones or put them on silent. Can you proceed Hon. Minister.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS [HON. ZIYAMBI] – Thank you Hon. President. Then he goes on to say, why are we doing away with public interviews? Like I said, these are not public interviews, it is the Judicial Service Commission conducting interviews that the public have access to listen to without contributing. All we are saying is, at entry level the Judicial Service Commission – yes, they can do interviews, at promotion, it is a disaster, even in all the countries that we have noticed. It becomes too personal and I think I will not labour on this. In any event, like he rightly said, he is given three names to choose from. So ultimately, we are saying we need to maintain the dignity and integrity of the judiciary by not allowing them to subject themselves to interrogating each other in public. Then he contradicts himself after he said why are we amending by saying there are very good provisions, why mix good provisions with bad provision? I am happy that he saw the light that in this Constitution, there are also other amendments that we can make which are very good.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Dr. Mavetera for saying there is nothing wrong with amending the Constitution which is the spirit. I like that because he acknowledges, let us not move around lying to people that we are putting patches to the Constitution. Thank you for that Hon. Sen. Mavetera. However, I also want to correct him, he mentioned the late Hon. Dr. Zvobgo, may his soul rest in peace.
In fact he was totally wrong, in 1987, the late Dr. Zvobgo was the Minister of Justice and is the one who came up with the Bill to introduce the Executive President. Nobody has even said it was wrong. I thank him for introducing the Executive President. He did an excellent job. The only problem that people were worried about is let us have term limits, but the question of an Executive President is not bad at all. So, I think he was wrong to make reference to the Minister responsible for bringing the Bill to Parliament. He would not have said that when he was responsible for bringing it here. In trying to quote, let us not misrepresent facts. Again, I have spoken about the separation of powers and I have said let us not elevate the status and stature of the Chief Justice and that of the Speaker of Parliament and equate it to the Head of State.
There was a statement that we are amending and increasing the age limit for the Judiciary because we want to protect certain individuals. Absolutely not, in the very same Constitution, there is provision for Acting Judge and if you read the Constitution carefully, you cannot be an acting Judge unless you are a retired Judge which automatically means you are above 70. So what we simply did is to say okay, if we are saying that that Judge is still good to go to our courts and takes issues like what is happening currently to two of our retired Judges, I think it is Justice Ndou and Justice Ziyambi. What is wrong with having somebody who is good to be in the Constitutional Court or to be a Chief Justice or Deputy Chief Justice when we acknowledge in the same Constitution that those who are above 70 can be Acting Judges? So, the Constitution that is a very good document allows that.
*Hon. Sen. Khumalo said that a Constitution is not a garment it should not have a lot of patches. Mr. Speaker, it is just like a pipe line, when there is something that you feel needs to be corrected, go and correct it, it can be fixed.
Even though she speaks about patches she is in support on the Clause about women. I thought it was also contradictory. Hon. Sen Phugeni speaks of the Constitution as a sacred document. He was very eloquent and very sarcastic. He says we are bringing the amendment as if it is an act of benevolence…
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: On a point of order Mr. President. The Minister is accusing us of playing the man not the ball, but that is exactly what he is doing. He is projecting a lot. He is telling us that we are emotional, yet he is the one who is emotional. We must be able to debate in this House, he must not impose debates on us, we never even implicated any institution of government here. We were just explaining things – how they unfolded, so I think the Minister must withdraw some of the things that he has said.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Minister is responding to the issues raised by the Hon. Members and that is how he saw them. Hon. Minister, can you proceed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President, if I was taking notes correctly, and if the Hon. Member can say it is wrong - he said by bringing this Bill, I want to project it as an act of benevolence by some actor in some office. He went on to say that it is like selling ice block in snow. I did not add any words; this is exactly what he said and that is why I said he was dramatic. He even said that the military arrested Hon. Mpoko – [AN HON. MEMBER: I never said that.] – That is why in my initial response I said Hon. Mpoko was not in Zimbabwe when this happened, unless if you can tell me then we can go to Hansard. I did not say these words but this is exactly what he said, if you can allow me to proceed.
Hon. President, law making process is not an act of benevolence, it is a process and it is a constitutional Bill. It is actually clearly stipulated that the Speaker gazettes and all the processes that are supposed to be followed, we have been following. I am not sure how the Hon. Member wanted a Constitutional Amendment Bill to be brought to Parliament by referring that we are pretending or it is an act of benevolence. I take great exception to that and I cannot hide it Hon. President Sir. That was a direct attack on the Executive for doing its duties. Forgive me because perhaps he does not appreciate or understand how the constitutional process is supposed to be done.
I also listened attentively and he spoke about realising a 50:50. Hon. President, I do not know of a country on this earth that has managed gender equality. In our effort to aspire, because in trying to bring in the proportional representation quota for women, we are saying we are aspiring for equality. We hope for a day when men and women are equal but how do we do it? We empower them by ensuring that we encourage women to participate in politics. How do we encourage them - by not having them competing with men. South Africa Mr. President Sir, has a total proportional representation system but they do not have a 50:50. So I think what we need is a national discussion without being emotional, without quoting sections or clauses and say how do we empower our people. For now as Government, we felt that we needed to retain the women’s quota for purposes of planning because it is less than three years before the next election and if we wait, it means we lose the gains that we had made, or we maintain that and we continue the discussions to say how do we find a permanent solution to it.
So attacking the extension without having proffered solutions from 2013 to have a discussion to say this has been given a 10 year life span, what do we do as a country? I think it becomes very unfair. This was a failure by all of us to have a permanent solution. So we cannot have a section trying to pretend to be saints. Let us just accept that for now let us have the quota being there and we continue the discussions hence you will realise that we gave it a cap to say let us extend it for the next two terms.
He spoke about the zebra in the Senate. It ceases to be a zebra Hon. President, if you say as it is it is female; male -I do not know how it becomes a zebra when you say female – male - female, -female. As for the institution of chiefs, with all due respect, I think it is a separate institution that we said must be in the Senate. We cannot not now try to change kuti madzishe anogadzwa sei mudzimba dzavo across the country. I think it is not ideal to look at women empowerment in terms of the number of chiefs. Let us leave the chiefs alone because they have their own processes that they do. Magadzirwo azvo, madzishe, zvinofamba sei ngatizvisiyei izvo hazvisi zve election.
Mr. President Sir, I think let us not tribalise issues that are not necessarily tribal, like the people of Matabeleland are saying they need a President. Who told you that you are their spokesperson? I think it is an issue that the President when he sees fit, he appoints his assistant. He is not appointing assistance because of tribal lines; he is appointing assistants because they are Zimbabweans.
Hon. President, if you look at our provinces, they are not equal. I may probably say that the population in Mashonaland West may be times two the population in Matabeleland South. So those are issues that I believe as a nation we are all relatives. Let us leave these issues of trying to tribalise things when we are discussing a constitutional amendment.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chirongoma for the contribution and the support that he gave. Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi was perfect in indicating that in Malawi there was chaos at some point and I just want to say to her, that the clause on proportional representation is actually the women who said in order for us to realise full and total empowerment in the future, let us encourage young women to participate. How do we do that? Let us say for the six, one of them must be a woman below the age of 35. The thinking is; it is inspiring if we have young women, it will inspire the other young women to join politics. The whole thinking behind these sits is to have a group of women who inspire and are role models to young girls so that they can enter into politics. I think that was the thinking which I thought was noble that if we can have these young women joining, it will be a good idea.
I thank Hon. Sen. Mbohwa. Hon. Sen. Moeketsi, I liked her argument that we are not grown up people. Our perceptions should reflect that we are grown-ups. We should give the one who has been selected or elected into power all the powers. If you see that this one is no longer doing what we are excepting, remove him from that position. There are some who mentioned that they amended this clause to ouster the yester-year President, the late Cde Mugabe. If I make a huge mistake, the blame is given on the President. Let us deal with that particular individual who would have messed up. Let us give the President the powers so that we equally blame him because we would have given him the mandate to lead.
So Hon. President Sir, these are very progressive amendments. My appeal is; we may think otherwise about certain clauses but we tried on behalf of the nation to bring a progressive Bill that will allow us to implement fully, provisions to deal with devolution. That allows us to ensure that we continue with our agenda on women empowerment, that allows us to have clarity in the governance of the country in terms of doing away with a parked provision that is also very confusing. It creates scenarios of conflict. Hon. President, unless if there are those that have specific issues, I am glad to respond to them. I move that the Bill be read the second time. I thank you.
HON. SEN. N. KHUMALO: Point of order Mr. President. Allow me to make a request and a correction. I noticed that some of our Ministers do not understand quite clearly isiNdebele. Our Minister here has misquoted me. I was not referring to this current Constitution that it has got several patches. I was talking about the previous Constitution which was left by the Whites. That is the Constitution which had several patches; several amendments, which prompted the MPs to write a new one. So, may the Hon. Minister take note of that.
The other thing Mr. President, may I request that this Hon. House brings back the interpreters so that we do not have such mistakes occurring again. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Khumalo, the point you are making about interpreters for everybody, I think is very important. We hope and we are sure that in the new Parliament building, that is going to be available. Your correction is noted. I am sure Hansard is going to refer to that.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: On a point of correction Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Another point of order?
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Yes Mr. President. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Mr. President, I never said the military arrested anyone, so if there is need to consult the Hansard, I wish so because I never said so as the Minister is putting it onto my account. The issue of 50:50 - whilst there is no country in the world that has it, it is a constitutional imperative in our country. Considering he had brought an amendment; I had to speak to it.
The last one is the one that I also took exception to which he raised. He wants to paint me as a tribalist and he cites that I raised the issue that there is no Vice President currently from Matabeleland. Of course, I represent that region and in the same vein, I raised the issue of women not being there in the Presidency. He does not go there because it does not suit his agenda. What he does is he wants to paint me as a tribalist so that he blacklists me in the future as someone not adequately represent the people here in the Senate. So, I do take exception to that. I raised two issues of demographic, which is not represented, which is women and the people of Matabeleland. If he has answers to that, he must deal with substantive matters which I raised and not impose tribalism …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senator, you may take you seat. I do not want to open a one- on- one with the Minister. What we are doing is a matter of procedure. Interpretation sometimes differs. Perception or how you view something, sometimes differs. So, I do not want to open a one- on- one. If all the other Senators were to do that, we would not go home. I urge you not to be emotional Hon. Senator. I urge you very strongly to try and be as calm as possible. This is Senate. You can also have a one- on -one with the Minister but let us be calm, “tiri vanhu vakuru.”
Do you want to have another go? I was asking whether you really want to have another go. The reason why I am saying that is because I do not think on either side of the House, there is going to be any new argument outside the issues which have already been responded to by the Minister. I doubt it. Correct me if I am wrong and I am quite willing “kana mazopedza kutaura motaura kuti chinyowani chamataura ndechipi pane zvisina kutaurwa naMinister,” so that we do not waste time; we go into Committee and proceed.
+HON. SEN. D. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President Sir. You mentioned that we must not repeat what has been said already. What I want to say is that it is unfortunate that the Minister might not understand my language. It is good for us to have the amendment with four items on the list. I am going to give an example of a young man who is proposing love to a woman. He proposes and declares his love and the woman would ask why the young man is interested in her. They will discuss and engage each other until they agree. So, there is no need to force anyone to fall in love. This example is something which is very clear even to the Minister who could have done this unilaterally but he decided to bring the issue to this august Senate. Bringing it to the august Senate gives us the opportunity to identify loopholes in the Bill. That is how we correct it. If it is a brick, it has been molded already but the explanation has been given to the builder as to what to change in that mould. Asking questions is not criticising each other but as adults, like what Hon. Sen. Moeketsi has already alluded, that we are elders and do not want to fight or force each other. We want to iron out issues in mutual agreement. I would like to say that when correcting issues; let us not do this in a manner that is like laying a trap, just like those traps that are set in order to capture wild animals. This kind of approach is not right, let us allow for different opinions and ideas so that we brainstorm issues.
We need to identify all the issues that need to be ironed out because when people highlight issues even in this Constitution amendment process, we need to be open-minded and identify things that should be removed. We cannot agree on the same points because we have different opinions and just like the analogy that I gave Hon. Minister of a young man proposing to a girl - it is not possible that a young man proposes love and the girl agrees. As a woman, you have to take your time first to determine whether the young man is right or not. If you are really interested in the young woman, then you persist until she accepts your proposal. There is no need to force her to accept your love. I am just saying that we need to discuss these issues.
I was part of the Constitution making process during the COPAC days. I was just asking myself that in a certain scenario, if a married woman has lived with her husband for three years without conceiving, then after three years she is confronted by the husband saying how come you have still not conceived? Then afterwards the woman conceives, they go for a scan and it is discovered that she is not carrying a child in the womb but a rabbit. This will be an unpalatable situation - then the husband decides that the woman should abort, there should be justification for the abortion.
We are not here as Hon. Senators to resist any proposals and it is not that we are being rude, no. We are not being rude but need to understand issues so that we agree. As a woman, I also need to understand these issues because if my son is appointed a Minister like Hon. Ziyambi then I should celebrate. When we go to constituencies and discover that women have been allocated stands and empowered, we celebrate. Hon. Minister, we need to understand as you continue explaining. You may be a Minister and more senior to me but you are still my son. So you do not have to be emotional but listen to us as your children and understand that this point is valid or not but you need to bear with us Hon. Minister. Let us not keep what is referred to as the reef knot grudge. When we came to this august House, we were so happy but we want to be happy here whether we are the Opposition or the Ruling Party, we need to be in harmony. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you very much Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the Bill that he tabled before this House. When a leg is injured, you need to apply a plaster to heal it so that you can walk again. This is how a lot of things are fixed.
I am saying that we may argue about the powers that are given to the President, if ever I am given the opportunity to become the President – I would like this power as well. I am saying let us fix this as mentioned by the Hon. Minister. I have stood to announce that I applaud the amendment to have the women’s quota increased by 10 years. My perspective is that may it continue infinitely because as women, as women an opportunity for us as women to stand and compete in constituencies is very difficult. This 50-50 is very impossible to achieve and is something that is just said, it is only lip service. When the opportunity comes for people to participate, there is a lot of tussling, pushing and shoving, women do not get a chance because they do not have the financial support or muscle to push and compete with men.
Even in this Senate when we want to vote for women into positions of influence, only men will fill this House to vote for other men. So my opinion on this issue is may this quota system be endless and continue forever and ever as this will give an advantage to the women. This is to enable the young women in this country to have an opportunity through this particular system, because they do not have the financial support to compete equally with men. We are contributing also and debating, that is why Hon. President I am saying thank you very much Hon. Minister for this amendment on the women’s quota and this particular issue that you touched on the youths. Let us not lie to each other because this 50-50 is not achievable. It is only something that we tend to talk about and not implement practically.
I am not doing this for myself but for posterity. If I become the President, I will also want to lead with those powers and even the next President. This is not for President Mnangagwa only; even those who are going to succeed President Mnangagwa will not be removed because a different President has come in. We are actually doing this for the next generations. Even in our respective political parties, whoever comes into office, this is what they will inherit and experience as President. I thank you very much and hope that I did not take much time Hon. President.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Mr. President Sir, I will just make brief comments before I go to the very new thing. Of course, in the absence of a clear 50-50 provision, an extension of the women’s quota is the next progressive thing. In the absence of anything else, a quota for the youth is of course welcome.
We have started a new philosophy that the youths are not leaders of tomorrow, they are leaders of today and introducing them into the legislature is a right step in bringing that leadership. Of course we have debated devolution, time without number and this is a very old story. We support devolution. I feel that the people who have debated the running mate clause, especially those who want it to go did not do justice to the logic of the running mate clause. Why did we put it there?
I happen to have been in the Constitution making process itself and this was one of the contentious clauses. The first thing was that we wanted to vaccinate the nation against Presidents who have a tendency of appointing useless Vice Presidents because they do not want to be challenged. So you have situations where a Vice-President is just put there to fill a post. We wanted to make the Vice-President an election issue. Here Mr. President, it is not correct that the President does not choose his Vice President. This clause says the President chooses his Vice and if more than one, chooses two but he chooses not after elections but before the elections so that the nation knows that in his absence who takes over and he designates them first and second so that you do not have a problem when it comes to succession.
The other thing we wanted to get rid of, which the Minister regrettably has reintroduced is the lottery clause. When we have two Vice Presidents, the Vice President who takes over in the event of the President leaving office is the Vice President who last acted. It is not known who it is but it is also open to manipulation. I know that I want to resign and so on. I appoint the other Vice-President whom I want to take over to act, well knowing that I am about to leave office. The introduction of the lottery clause introduces doubt in the country. There is uncertainty on who will take over. So that was the logic of the running mate. The fact that Malawi had a problem does not mean that the running mate has a problem.
What I notice the Hon. Minister doing is that he avoided those countries where the running mate clause has worked for centuries and one of those countries is the United States of America; they have a running mate system. It does not mean that they are on the ballot together it means the electorate is told beforehand who the Vice President is going to be.
I now want to go to a point which I think is really very serious. Everyone wants Zimbabwe to be reintegrated into the international community – not any Zimbabwean; not anyone who has Zimbabwe at heart enjoys the international isolation of Zimbabwe. We need to do those things that make the international isolation go away. One of the things that make it remain is the way we do our internal processes.
Mr. President, on the kind of judges, I am sure the Minister agrees with me that it will be a sad day when all the judges of the Supreme Court; all the judges of the High Court are illegal. So we want to make sure that the judges are not illegal. The amendment that has been introduced has a clause that makes the judges illegal.
First of all, Section 328 of our Constitution says, if there is a term limit but there is need to extend that term limit, that extension shall not benefit the person holding that office. The logic of that section was to dis-incentivise leaders who wanted to extend their terms. So, if you are a President who then uses his popularity to extend the term of office, the clause says you shall not benefit from that extension. If you have commissioners for example, who have a limited term of office and you introduce an extension during their term, that extension does not benefit them. If you have judges now who have term limits and you introduce an extension during their tenure, that extension does not benefit them. What the Minister had done in the original Bill, is that he left that question open and with due respect, he was correct. What the Minister subsequently did now, was to introduce another sub-clause 4, which says notwithstanding Section 238 (7), the provision of sub-sections 1,2,3 of this section shall apply to the continuation in office of the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice, Judges of the Constitutional Court and Judges of the Supreme Court. What you are doing Hon. Minister, through you Mr. President is; you are extending a term limit and our law says when we are extending a term limit, the incumbent shall not benefit. So this extension is unconstitutional. This extension is illegal.
Now, through this new extension, the new clause – I do not know at what stage it came into being. The Minister is basically amending Clause 328 so that the Clause 328 does not apply to judges. This is amending. Our Constitution is very clear. When you are amending a clause which deals with human rights; when you are amending a clause which deals with land; when you are amending a clause which deals with term limits, you do not amend it in the manner that you amend other ordinary clauses. It goes for a referendum. That has not been done in respect of this clause. That is why you hear people say the amendment is unconstitutional. A constitutional amendment where the Constitution says I am amended this way; when it is a clause like this, I am amended via a referendum, we must follow that. I agree with you Hon. Minister, the Constitution can be amended but it says how it shall be amended. Each clause is amended in a particular way.
Here comes another issue, in the Constitution we made it clear that when you seek to amend the Constitution, you must give notice to the people of Zimbabwe of what you want to amend. The Speaker must give notice to the public, I think for 90 days on exactly what you want to amend and call upon Zimbabwean people to put their input in the amendment. When the notice was given, the Bill was as it was saying we are giving notice that there is a new method of appointment of judges. Our thinking is that the new law operates from the time that it is promulgated. As time went on, the Minister then introduced without notifying the public, that we are protecting the current judges and these judges are going to benefit from extension of the time limit. To that end, this is a dangerous thing.
Lastly on that issue Mr. President Sir, Parliament is there to make laws for the just governance of Zimbabwe. We have a responsibility to keep within our own Constitution. We have a responsibility of stopping potential danger. Now what we have just done with this new introduction, Hon. Minister, I think I saw it on the Order Paper, that introduction is now introducing an extension of term limits that benefits the incumbent. So today it is Judges. How do we know that tomorrow it is not about commissions whose terms are limited? How do we know the day after it is not the President whose term of office is limited by the Constitution now that you have introduced in the Constitution that you can suspend the operation of section 328 which says you shall not benefit from the extension. When we did it, we were aware that those who run us, who govern us interact. I am sure the President interacts with the Chief Justice during the course of their work, interacts with the Speaker, the President of the Senate and so on. So what we wanted to avoid was you to use your interaction to extend each other’s terms and benefiting from that extension.
I have practiced law in Zimbabwe for almost 30 years and I have knowledge of the men and women who are populating our Supreme Court and Constitutional Court. I like most of them. They are nice people, they are fun and intelligent but their term of office, if it has expired, it has expired. There is no need to create special favours for people. That is the basis of our argument Mr. President Sir, that it is not necessary to go that route. Our law says if we extend your term of office while you are in office, you do not benefit. What this new law is saying is that you in fact can benefit. Maybe the Minister may not have seen it that way but it is a dangerous precedence and also now because you are introducing an amendment to Section 328 in so far as it applies to Judges basically what you are saying is Section 328 does not apply to Judges, therefore you are amending Section 328.
Having amended Section 328, it means you must follow the procedure because it says when you are amending Section 328, you amend it as if you are amending Chapter 4. Chapter 4 deals with human rights and in the Constitution, we said that the Executive does not touch the human rights of the people of Zimbabwe. When you want to change the human rights, when you want to amend that section, it goes to referendum, ipso facto. By the same fact, when you want to amend term limits you follow the same procedure. The danger is to have our Judges maybe on the basis of the majority here, continuing in the Supreme Court, in the Constitutional Court but being illegal Judges. That makes Zimbabwe a laughing stock.
Mr. President, I just also want to say the Minister may say this amendment was suggested by someone maybe in Parliament. Parliament has no right to do that. It has no right to amend Section 328 without the procedures being followed. Those, Mr. President Sir, are my submissions. I strongly feel that when it comes to the Judiciary, when it comes to the Judges, we have introduced something completely illegal.
The Hon. Minister has said that he does not think that it is a good idea that the Chief Justice be subjected to interviews when going to the Supreme Court. Here was the logic. A Judge who is suitable for the High Court is not necessarily suitable for the Supreme Court, is not necessarily suitable for the Constitutional Court. So you can do well in the High Court or you can make mistakes in the High Court and the purpose of the interview is to make you account for yourselves. Why do you think you deserve promotion when you did this and that wrong. Let us not confuse rude interviewers who are there just to humiliate the interviewee. You can still deal with that by putting rules on how people can be interviewed.
Yes, I saw I think one of the Judges was humiliated by the late Chief Justice Chidyausiku. She was asked ‘but you are alleged to have taken a bribe’. That was wrong interviewing. The fact that someone was interviewed in a wrong manner does not mean interviews are wrong. We want our people to have trust in our systems, we want our people to have confidence in the judicial systems, we want our people to appreciate that they are being led by intelligent people and that is what interviews bring. We want our people to see that these people are knowledgeable and we are being tried by knowledgeable people. That is the purpose of the interview. Now if you think that the Judicial Services Commission is not good enough, we can have a compromise. Hon. Minister, if I may suggest that the interviews be done by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders. We interviewed some people for the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission. We did not humiliate them. We treated them with respect and the same can happen with senior Judges.
In the United States, maybe slightly different but they are still subjected to debate by the Congress. I think, in some instances and by the Senate in others. We can still also copy that, but for Judges to be taken to the Supreme Court on the whims of the President is over- concentration of power in the President. Do not think about the President that you have now. The Constitutions are not made for the angels of today but for the devils of tomorrow- [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- Let me give an example of the person you do not want to be president and that person happens to be president, let us say it is Mr. Mwonzora and he has powers to appoint judges of the Supreme Court without being taken to account. It happened in the United States of America. I think the President was Marshal or somebody. They packed the Supreme Court with their friends. How you vaccinate against that is you interview them.
So let us not open up for potential abuse by the Executive in that regard. With that Mr. President Sir, I wish to end my submissions. We have to act legally in this Parliament. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I humbly withdraw from making my contribution.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you very much Mr. President. I do not think it is possible for me to continue to contribute since my elders have contributed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Members starting with Hon. Sen. Ndlovu. At the risk of misinterpreting you, I heard you say that we must debate in a dignified manner that is not emotional and you gave a metaphor of a builder that if the owner of the house enquires on how you are doing your job do not get angry. I take note of your points.
Hon. Sen. Chifamba, I want to thank you for your contributions and I agree with her and when I agree with her, I also need to say that when we make reference to this Constitution ,the Constitution has an aspiration that we must have 50/50 but the electoral system in this Constitution in terms of Section 155 and 160 – makes it extremely difficult to say you can, in the recurrent state realise that. That is why I support what Hon. Chifamba was saying. In a first past the post system, it is extremely difficult. You need exactly what we are doing to empower women to compete on an equal basis.
Even the first past the post, it has its own challenges also. That is why I said this issue of electoral systems is a debate for another day. We all at some stage forgot that in this Constitution, we had given a lifespan to our empowerment programme of women. All that we did was to say perhaps we all slept. We need a discussion that will be a bit longer on the type of system that we need. Let us continue with our empowerment programme which Hon. Sen. Chifamba said let us leave it like that.
I also agree with Hon. Sen. Mwonzora that in the absence of a 50/50, change of the electoral system, I think this is the best – let us all agree with that. I agree with him that we need to encourage the youth to participate in politics, hence the need to have these seats. He gave us a history lesson on why this clause was brought about and he is right that it was contentious and that is why it was parked. No agreement within the parties and he said we wanted to vaccinate the nation against Presidents who appoint useless Vice Presidents.
In fact, this was a clause that was put in there because people were agitating to know who takes over. I think this is cured by elections every five years. Our parties are given an opportunity to select their own to be the presidential candidate. We go to an election. We do not go to an election to elect a successor. We go to an election to elect a President whom we believe by the grace of God will complete the five years. I respectfully submit that we have put provisions that will allow for the respective parties to choose.
The other one who acted will only act until the party has decided because the President is coming from a party. He says it is not correct that the President does not choose his VPs. You are right, but we are saying I have chosen today and the person that I have chosen decides that he does not want to assist me anymore, what do we do? You said this introduces a doubt in the country and you said I gave an example of Malawi and forgot other countries.
I did not forget them, I merely stated that in the structure that it is put, it does not even add clarity, save to say that what you said from your historical memory that we wanted to vaccinate people against what you term useless so that they know who is going to take over. What I do not agree with you is that the Constitution is very clear that the President must be voted jointly together with his VPs, unless if we put an electoral law that says where the name of the President appears, it means that he has chosen his Vice President.
In the current state, they are supposed to be voted together, the three of them and you put an X. That is the reason why the removal process becomes a bit difficult. It is because this person you are not the one who put him there. That person was voted by the people, hence there must be an impeachment process that involves representatives of the people which is Parliament. I think the way we did it we were so much in a hurry to know who will succeed, but an election is about us going to vote for somebody whom we must pray that the Lord gives him five more years and governs, not that when he is elected we then become too eager why he does not die so that the first Vice President or the second Vice President can take over.
On the issue of judges where you said we are trying to amend Section 328 – not at all. I respectfully differ with you. In fact, if what you are saying is correct, then to a greater extent the Constitution is contradictory. If you say judges’ tenure is a term limit – I submit that judges have an age of retirement, not a fixed term limit except the Constitutional Court judges and we have not touched the Constitutional Court judge’s term. We are leaving it at 15 years. So, judges are like any other civil servant who is told you got a job today and at 65 you retire. It is a retirement age.
My take is if you look at these judges, the section that you are making reference to does not apply except for Constitutional Court judges. Constitutional Court judges, the Constitution is very clear that you reach 70 or 15 years. If you are appointed a judge of the Constitutional Court at 40, or at 55 years whether we like you or not, you cannot be a Constitutional Court judge. If we attempt now to change that, then Hon. Sen. Mwonzora becomes extremely correct that we are now attempting to amend Section 328. I respectfully submit that this is a tenure and for acting judges, if what you were saying was correct for acting judges, it means the two provisions of the Constitution are already at cross purposes.
So, I believe that it is possible and secondly, we are not targeting any specific judges per se, but by virtue of the fact that if you appoint a judge today, they retire at 70. Surely, if they are still good – except to be a constitutional court judge, they can do other duties and it is already there. The only thing that we said administratively, you cannot sit as a Constitutional Court judge if you are over 70. So, I do not think we will be amending Section 328 then you said that we will be concentrating power on the President. I want to respectfully differ and say that this amendment does not in any way concentrate power in the President. The current clause and this Hon. Senator said that, what has been taken away is the interview process but the people who will recommend are exactly the same people who were supposed to interview. If you look at the other provisions for every Judge that the President wants to appoint, they must submit three names with or without an interview. Indirectly, the President still has the power. He can reject and request a second set. So you can see, it can end being for one Judge. He has the liberty to having six names even with the current system. So I am submitting to you that there is no concentration of power whatsoever; it is already there so to speak.
All we are saying is that what we have just taken away is to say the Judicial Service Commission, whatever you do, if you decide to have interviews there we do not know but what the President will need is a shortlist. If you are saying there is so much value in that public interview, which I am submitting does not have a lot of value, if the Judicial Service Commission wants to do its job appropriately, they can even do interviews because this amendment is not saying do not but it is saying do not beam it live. So whatever it is, the President’s powers remain the same because the very same names are still being submitted by exactly the same people. So, there is no concentration of power or extending the powers of the President so to speak. In that regard, you put in very good arguments but I think in this case, those are the only two points I turned not to agree with you, that indeed we are not amending Section 328.
Section 328 is considered in the same manner as if we are amending Chapter 4 or Chapter 16 on agricultural land, but in this case I submit that we cannot say even a magistrate has a term limit, even a retirement age but a Constitutional Court judge has.
Mr. President Sir having said that, I want to thank the Hon. Members. It was robust and that is what debates are sometimes like. It is not very personal. With your permission, I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSTITUTION OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 23A, 2019]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 2 put and agreed to.
On Clause 3;
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I think there was a typo error even in the Constitution. It says in sub section 1 - by the deletion of/or Vice-President. It had an ‘and’ nor ‘or’ - so where ‘or’ appears, I think it must be ‘and’ in both a and b.
Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 4 and put 5 and agreed to.
On Clause 6;
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: It talks of the term of Office of the President. It is basically after the election petition is decided but the last clause there which is (b) 2 (a), Mr. President, it says ‘as soon as the President assumes office, he or she shall appoint not more than two Vice - Presidents who shall be qualified for election as President in terms of that and who shall take oath before the Chief Justice’. I suggest that we extend that Clause a little bit to say that ‘at that point, the President must designate who the first Vice President is and who the second Vice-President is’. He has now had his choice but he must designate that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I hear him but I am trying to think what the mischief he wants to cure is because immediately after that, we have two clauses that will be dealing with that. As soon as the President assumes office, he or she shall appoint not more than two Vice-Presidents but you want him to designate before he assumes office. That is an ad-hoc arrangement because he has not assumed office and he is designating to who?
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: The point I am saying is, when I say designate, it means the President must then announce that I have appointed two Vice Presidents, Vice President No. 1 is X and Vice President No. 2 is Y. It deals with the chain of command, the line of authority between them. The mischief that you wanted to cure was that they serve at the pleasure of the President. So, it does not matter whether he is first Vice President or second Vice President, they are serving at his pleasure. The President has designated them first and second because it then deals with the issue of authority between them, unnecessary rival between them which can be very unproductive for the nation.
If I may give you an example of the Roman Empire during the time of Julius Caesar and Pompey; the Romans had kings who ranked the same and it did not develop because they were always overruling each other. So, to get rid of that confusion, you designate the first Vice President and the other one the second Vice President, you get away with the lottery clause that is number one. Number two, also you get rid of unnecessary rivalry that can happen in the vice presidency. It is not long ago I think there was a rivalry between the two last Vice Presidents of the Late President Mugabe era; it was not good for the nation. It can be a security risk.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I hear you, his proposal is again to change the Constitution so that we say the President must appoint two Vice Presidents, it says ‘not more than’, he may choose to appoint one. So, I think in the manner it is, it is still correct. Even if we are to do that, it says ‘not more than 2’, so he may say I was within my jurisdiction to appoint one at that particular time because the Constitution allows so. So, I respectfully submit that let us leave it as it is, unless we say we are now making a huge decision to say it must be two. In which case I think it needs a lot of consultation, it is not a decision. The principles that we followed are outside my own discretion to think that way unless if it was within the parameters to say it allows given what is already there. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Allow me to repeat or to emphasise what Hon. Sen. Mwonzora was saying. I think it is a very good clause for us to actually remove too much contention because what we want is certainty. Zimbabweans are peace loving, we want certainty. He gave a very good example, probably some of us, we may not have felt the same but an example of our previous Vice Presidents of this nation, that is the current Vice- President and the other yesteryear Vice President Mpoko. They were fighting in public and this is not good for the nation. We are giving the President powers to choose but he should do the nation better in the event that he appoints two Vice Presidents.
Your response Hon. Minister was he may choose to appoint one but let us actually clear that and say in the event that he chooses to exercise his maximum power which is choosing two Vice Presidents, he then has to designate or arrange them in terms of seniority so that as a country, we know where power belongs. Just imagine right now if we had two presidents, what would we do, it confuses us. So, let us not confuse the nation. We give the President the power to choose but in the event he wants more than one, he should actually arrange them in a manner that we as citizens feel at peace. I thank you Mr. Chairman.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you. What Hon. Sen. Mwonzora wants us to do is that before the President is even sworn in, he designates but we are saying there is a nine day waiting period – [HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Sen. Mwonzora.
HON. ZIYAMBI: If it is at any time, as soon as he is sworn in, the Bill is saying ‘as soon as the President assumes office, he shall appoint’. So, he must, without delay, do that. I think it is covered. I think it is covered. The issue of designating two, I hear what you are saying but it is extremely difficult. If say Hon. Sen. Mwonzora has been elected President and is unclear, he would simply appoint one and it will still be perfectly legal but I am saying this amendment, with your indulgence, can we pass it because I think it would need a lot of consultation. The principles of dealing with this Bill that I had a mandate on do not allow me to then prescribe all those issues. Like I said, it will be, so to speak, I know my learned colleague and Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, it is very sneaky, what he is trying to say is let us sneaky in again the running mate. As soon as he is practical, then he designates. The current structure is once he is sworn in, without delay, he appoints. It is not something that we can surely waste time on. It is perfectly reasonable the way it is. If we say it, it is like bringing it in another way, ka back door so, Hon. Chairperson. Hon. Chairperson, I move that we proceed.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think we have been doing very well. I submit respectful that the Hon. Minister should not give the impression that auya nechinhu chakabikwa chekuti tiite endorse. That is why we are here to debate to put wisdom in whatever he has brought to us. I think this idea of a President, I hear what he says quite clear, if he prefers to choose one, we have got no problem but after two months, if he decides because he still has the powers, if he chooses the second one, then the moment he goes on to choose the second one, he should tell us who is senior, protect us. We know we cannot re-write. We have walked the talk. We had Vice Presidents who were fighting like small kids. It is not good for us. Some of us have dignity as a nation; we are not taking any power from the President. We are saying you have chosen these two, rank them so that they operate efficiently for the benefit of the country. It is not their office, it is the office for the people. Thank you Mr. Chair.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, let me respond. That is why in the beginning I said, the most confused provision that we ever made was this one of the running mate because it wants to entrench power in a person without giving that person real power. The simple function of a Vice President is to assist the President. Any President who chooses his assistants must be able to reign in his assistants. If that President fails to reign in his assistants, it is one of the reasons why we even instituted impeachment proceedings against the former President. So I think we are arguing about things that are taken care of. What you want us to do would mean that we need now to change because we are now specifying the first Vice President on what he does. We now need to go to the functions and say the first Vice- President does 1,2,3.
The only thing that is mentioned that the first Vice President does in this Constitution is, he will take over. That is why I said with due respect to my learned Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, it is more akin to sneaking it back. Let us allow the President, like you rightly said, give him the leeway to appoint his assistants and assign them duties as and when he wants, rather than fix the duties of a Vice President in a Constitution amendment. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Mr. President Sir, I just want to assure my learned friend, the Minister, that there were no ill intentions on my part. It was within the spirit of construction and it was as a result of what happened between Vice President Mnangagwa and Vice President Mphoko. It can get even uglier than that and that is what we wanted to vaccinate.
Clauses 6 to 11 put and agreed to.
On Clause 12;
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: It has now changed. It is the one on the Order Paper. If you look at Clause 12 in the Bill, it says delimitation but Clause 12 on the Order Paper now is amendment of Section 180 of the Constitution.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The procedure normally is; the Bill that is transmitted to the Senate will have amendments that have been effected in the National Assembly. Therefore, what the Hon. Chair is going through is the composite Bill as passed in the National Assembly.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, your Bill is the Bill before the amendment in the National Assembly.
Clause 12 put and agreed to.
On Clause 13;
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: This is the clause that deals with the extension of the term of office of the judges. My learned friend, the Minister made two concessions which are important. The first one is that interviews can still take place but they shall not be public interviews. That is a fundamental issue and I submit that we put it in the Bill that interviews will happen but they are not public interviews, because he does not want the judges humiliated by public interviews. So we must indicate that interviews will take place.
The second issue is relating to the concession that he made that the extension does not cover judges of the Constitutional Court. That means therefore when we go to sub clause 4, we must delete Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice, Judges of the Constitutional Court. We must delete that and say, Judges of the Supreme Court because he has conceded that the Judges of the Constitutional Court are not covered by the extension. The impression created there is that they are in fact covered, so let us just delete that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, on interviews, I respectfully submit to Hon. Sen. Mwonzora’s view that what I was implying is those that are vested with short listing the people that are submitted to the President is the Judicial Services Commission and it is an administrative process. I do not believe that they would sit under a tree and say, let us just write 1,2,3,4. If it so pleases perhaps we may amend another Act or so to ensure that in the function of the Judicial Services Commission.
However, in the Constitution, surely to then put an administrative - I think we will be encumbering ourselves with so much detail. What I was trying to say is all that we are saying public interviews per se are not necessary but they can come up with any process that they so wish, administratively to choose. I will give you a good example, the Constitution currently does not say they must write exams but I understand when they shortlist, they first give them an exam before they proceed to public interviews. That is nowhere prescribed in the Constitution. So, I think your fears really, we can address them even after passing this Constitution. It may not be necessary for us to do that but those are done as a matter of administrative convenience.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Mr. President Sir, maybe before the Hon. Minister proceeds - your argument Hon. Minister, is that providing for interviews is providing for an unnecessary administrative issue in the Constitution but in Section 12, you have done exactly that. In relation to the judges of the Administrative Court and Judge President, you even said, ‘conduct public interviews for prospective candidates’. Now, I am saying that you have put an administrative issue there. When it comes to 13, there are two things that you want to do. The first thing is that you want to protect senior judges from the humiliation of public interviews; I understand and agree with you there. How will they be humiliated by a private interview? What do they lose? What do we lose by prescribing it in the Constitution that there shall be interviews although they are not public interviews because we have provided for interviews before and we can provide for interviews now? The distinction is that if you are a senior judge, you now have this dignity of being protected from the public. Please Hon. Minister.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I hear him and do not think that we gain much by prescribing that there must be a private interview. Surely when we vest authority in an institution to do the selection process, if we want to be neater and meticulous, we can then put something in regulations but not in the supreme law to say that when you are now selecting, you can do one/two/three/four. That is why I indicated that even as we speak, when they select or shortlist those who will go for public interviews, they have given them a written examination which is not provided for in the Constitution. So I am appealing that we proceed.
In terms of Constitutional Court judges, I think it is covered. We said here that if you are a Chief Justice and you have served 15 years then it is a term limit and not tenure but if you have not reached 70 years, you are covered. I think that it is very clear in the amendment; we have not tampered with term limit. So I am appealing that we proceed Hon. Chair on this one. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Hon. Chair if I may - this is a fundamental clause and I just want to say to the Hon. Minister, that this is a clause which if you take it lightly and you are taken to court – it will be struck down. Maybe there is no court to take to because the same judges that seek to benefit will sit in judgment but it is my considered view that this is a fundamental clause. You are extending a term limit of people and they are benefiting. For that reason and for the record, I request division of the House on these two. We are proposing interviews and we are agreeing that they will not be public. We are also proposing that you remove all the judges of the Constitutional Court because by your own concession, judges of the Constitutional Court are not covered by the extension. So remove them and you do not want to remove, which gives us the suspicion that you in fact are covering them. You agreed during the debate that my submission regarding Section 328 would be correct if it was for Constitutional Court judges. Having made that concession, I do not understand why we should keep them there.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I do not know where we do not understand each other. If I am appointed a judge of the Constitutional Court today and I am 40 years, at 55 years I cease to be and I submit that I cannot even be a Chief Justice or a Deputy but if I am appointed, I am 68 year old judge of the Constitutional Court.
With this provision that raises the age limit, I can continue up to 75 years old – that is all I am saying but if I have already served my 15 years, I cannot. It is very clear in the amendments, it is not ambiguous. Unless if there is a certain ambiguity that Hon. Members are seeing but I am simply saying that if I am appointed and I am a young man of 40 years, I qualify to be a Constitutional Court judge and for the next 15 years, I am a Constitutional Court judge. I cannot be but if I am not and have not served for 15 years, then the age limit that we have already agreed to allows him to continue up to 75 years. I thank you Hon. Chair.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, can I put Clause 13 as agreed?
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: No, Mr. Chairman Sir.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Propose.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: With two things - look, the Hon. Minister has agreed in this House that my submissions would be correct if they refer to Constitutional Court judges. The submission that I made about the extension of term limits, he said and it is in the Hansard - that I am correct.
Now, I am suggesting to him that he removes them then if my submissions are correct and he does not agree to remove them. I think that it is an act in bad faith; it is contradictory on his part, with the greatest of respect. He has agreed here that private interviews can still take place. We want as much objectivity as possible; we have understood that the judges must not be humiliated and we have agreed with him. What do we lose by putting ‘private interviews shall happen’? To the people of Zimbabwe, it adds more weight that they are being interviewed and they will understand that they should not be humiliated. What do we lose?
Now if this Bill goes, it will be challenged in a court of law and I can tell you that the challenge will be successful. What I am saying here at the expense of spending everybody’s time, is for us as Senate to avoid that. I do not want to be part of proceedings that I know are wrong and will be successfully challenged in a court of law.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: We seem to be going round and round on this one.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Maybe if I may respond Hon. Chair. Firstly, I distinguished between the tenure of judges and the age limit. In the Constitution, if you go to the Tenure of Judges, it separates Constitutional Court judges and gives them a term limit of 15 years but it also says, if you are appointed early you serve 15 years and retire but if you are appointed late in life and you reach the age of 70 years, whether you have served 15 years or not, you must retire – it is a retirement age.
So there are two issues that we are dealing with. We are dealing with a tenure that leads you to a retirement age and a term limit to say that if you are appointed a Constitutional Court judge you are very young, 15 years, you are out and what we did previously was Judges of the Supreme Court, the Constitutional Court, all the Judges, they can extend to 75 provided when you became a Constitutional Court Judge, you were old enough to the extent that you reached 70 before the 15 years had expired, but if you serve as a Constitutional Court Judge, for 15 years and by age 60, you have served you can no longer be a Constitutional Court Judge and the provision of extending to 75 does not apply because you cannot continue. So let us differentiate. What I agreed is you cannot amend Section 328. I agree, but I am saying which we have already corrected, which we have already agreed to previously. That is why I am saying I do not understand why we have to divide the House. We have already agreed on a provision to extend to 75, but we are keeping the 15 year cap as it is. So everything else will remain the same. So I am pleading that we proceed, Hon. Chair.
Hon. Chair, just one clarification. We have agreed to raise the age to 75. So I just want clarity, what is Hon. Sen. Mwonzora’s argument about Constitutional Court Judges when we have said the age limit can be raised. It is more or less like what it is couched now. It says you serve for 15 years but if you reach 70 before the expiration of the 15 years, you go and what we have passed says you can go to the age of 75 but if you serve for 15 years, you go. So I just want to understand what exactly he is saying we have done that I have conceded. I have differentiated. I never said tenure is equivalent to age limit. Even the Constitution it differentiates when it speaks about the tenure of office of Judges. It starts with Constitutional Court Judges. It clearly says that you serve for 15 years but if you reach 70 which is the retirement age, you go.
We have already agreed in an earlier amendment which was put to by the Chairperson and agreed to that we raise it to 75. Are we going to go back again and relook at what we have already done because this is closely related to what we have already passed. The only difference is that all we are saying is if you serve for 15 years, you are out, but if you have not served for 15 years, you are allowed to get to 75. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Yes, Hon. Minister I hear you. Now if you are correct, if you are to proceed that way, then we delete Clause 4. If you have raised the age limit to 75, then you delete Clause 4.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Probably you have to explain why.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: The Clause 4 is saying not withstanding Section 238 (7). Section 238 (7) is the one that says you do not benefit from an extension of a term limit and what he is arguing is that it is an age limit not a term limit. So if he deletes that, he will avoid the following, ‘notwithstanding subsection 7 of Section 238, the provision of Section 1, 2, 3 of this section shall apply to continuation in office.’
Continuation in office is extension. This is the clause, Hon. Chair that if it is taken to court, will go against him because that is a continuation of a term of office. You are extending a term of office which you cannot do. If he is extending an age limit now, then he does not need that and he avoids litigation. I think the lawyers there must help.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I was consulting the drafters. Hon. Chair, the reason why this was put in was for clarity. Already we were divided, others confusing tenure and age limit, term of office and tenure term of office being one 5 year term, two 5 year terms and 15 year term for Constitutional Court judges. So, the crafters really wanted it for clarity’s sake - but to be very honest, it is not amending Section 328 of the Constitution. That is my reading of it.
HON. DR. SEN. MAVETERA: Mr. Chairman, my very few years I have witnessed this august House that what had been passed being taken to court and challenged and giving firm to some people like we were sleeping on duty. I actually have a problem personally and what the Hon. Minister has said in terms of differentiating term limit as years and age as not term limit – it is subject to interpretation. My understanding of this clause is if we say term limit - if we are saying for how long can you continue exercising your obligations under the contract you have been? We are told it is either you get out when you get to a certain age or you get out when you have fulfilled four many time periods.
So, the term limit is actually defined by two words. Both of these need term limit, that is one point which can be taken and presented to the court for interpretation. We made 50/50, so why should we seem like we are sleeping on duty, passing something which is controversial? Why do we not crystalise it and come out with a law? I do not think there is much difference here, but we are saying why do we want to give people outside strength to say they have done something illegally and they have done this? I think we need to protect the integrity.
Some of us and all of us even in this august House have got our integrity and from my point of view, we are not differing but we want to come up with something. What is happening outside is that most of us have heard the uproar. They are thinking that some things like if you go a little bit back, the interview clause, people are now just thinking we are drinking in a pub and you say now you can be Chief Justice. That is what the lay person outside there is thinking. If we say interview, not public, they will know that they are still protected and what we want is to protect the respect and the integrity of those courts which we will have established.
So, I think there is no reason for us to rush because this thing is going to be challenged. There are people outside there because we are not plucking on those potential. We see it and we leave someone. How about if it is interpreted and they turn out to be right? We are seen like we are sleeping on duty. I respectfully submit Mr. President that we need to interrogate this because we cannot just pass this. It should be crystallised and made easier for us so that we pass as we vote, or else as we pass this law, we are all convinced that we have passed a water-tight law which is not subject to any attack from any angle. I thank you.
THE MINSITER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLAIMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chairman. I hear Hon. Sen. Dr. Mavetera and his concerns. That is democracy the Constitution allows that as a safety valve in the event that we may err. I hear your arguments which are very sound. We need to agree, but sometimes agreement and interpretations may be different. My understanding is that we are saying more or less the same, he is saying for clarity’s sake let us expunge it and I am saying the reason it is there is so that the interpretation philosophy will take away the thinking that we were trying to amend Section 328. He is saying no, let us not have that. Having said that, I think Hon. Chair let us report progress because it is already a Quarter to Seven.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 28th April, 2021.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the Senate adjourned at Twelve Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 22nd April, 2021
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We are supposed to do Questions Without Notice but I can see that we only have four Ministers, the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Mathema, the Hon. Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Madiro, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage, Hon. Maboyi, the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Hon. Machingura. Thank you, you are welcome.
We welcome the Leader of the House, we thought you are coming with the other Ministers. So, since you are the Leader of the House, you are going to answer the questions.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. I will direct my question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. It is now public knowledge that some rural schools and also a few schools in towns, teachers are not going to work due to what they are calling incapacitation. Is this not true Hon. Minister? If it is, what is the Government doing to ameliorate the challenges that teachers are meeting? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. SEN. MATHEMA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for the questions. Yes I have heard that there are some schools where teachers are not going to work. What we are saying is that no work, no pay to those teachers who are not at work. We are working with school heads to have registers so that I pass on that information to the Public Service Commission and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. We cannot have a situation where teachers just decide not to go to work. As the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, I have not received any representation from any of the teachers unions in the country. So, no work, no pay Madam President. Thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to remind Hon. Senators to always observe social distancing because of COVID.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question. I will direct my question to the Leader of the House. What is the Government doing to ensure and enforce cyber security and also punish those abusing the internet?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Dube for that very important question. We know the havoc which is caused by fake news on social media among families, communities and countries. The Government of Zimbabwe, through its Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services has come up with a Cyber Bill which is actually going through Parliament now and we think it will soon be enacted. This is to deal with those people so that anybody who gets on social media should be accountable and can be followed for what they would have written on social media and be dealt with if it is causing havoc and disharmony among our people. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: My question is directed to the Minster of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement since he is not around I will direct it to the leader of the House. As a Ministry you gave a deadline of 15 February to all under utilised farms. Now we are in April, the wheat season, what measures are you going to take on all those who have not submitted the reasons why they are failing to utilise the land and for how long are you going to stretch your deadline which was not reached by those who are not in all the four categories of not using the farms.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu for that question. I think Government is much seized with the matter. The policy is to make sure that those who have been allocated farms are utilizing them. This is why the Government has come up with an audit commission who are going around all the districts and provinces in the country to make sure that those who have been allocated farms are using them.
The second republic is talking about production. We want to make sure that those who have been allocated with land are producing for the good of the country. So the question which he is asking is very specific as to which ones have been found under-utilised and those statistics the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement will be very happy to give him if he puts his question in writing because he wants to know exactly, but the policies, those farms which are being under utilised they will look at the reasons why they are not being utilised and Government will move because we know that there are many other people out there who are also on the waiting list to get land from Government.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President my question is directed to the Hon. Leader of the House. I understand some of our roads are in a state of disaster or rather let me say they have been declared to be in a state of disaster and this was exacerbated by the heavy rains we received last year. There is a stretch of road from Bulawayo to Nkayi. That road has been in a state of disaster for the last 30 years and after the heavy rains received last year, the road is a death trap.
I am aware of the construction that has been taking place on that road and it has covered approximately 60km from Bulawayo in the last 30 years. I would like to know if this road is part of the roads that have been identified and prioritised as those that are in a state of disaster and if indeed it has been identified as one of the roads I would like to know when construction is going to start on the road. I thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You have got a particular road Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NDLOVU: Sorry Madam President.
THE HON. PRISIDENT OF SENATE: You have got a particular road you are talking about?
HON. SEN. CHIEF NDLOVU: I was talking about the state of our State roads, all of them and there is a particular road that I have identified and mentioned to say over and above the roads that have been identified from the last season, this one has been in a state of disaster for the last 30 years.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Usually when you have a particular road you are talking about we have got to put it in written form so that the Ministry concerned is going to look and find out about the facts concerning that road.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NDLOVU: Thank you Madam President, I will do so.
*HON. SEN. G. MOYO: Thank you for affording me this opportunity. I want to ask the question to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. Do we now have the funding that we were told would be made available for road reconstruction?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The question is with regards to the roads that are going to be reconstructed on the issue of a learners licence. Is that so?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Hon. President of Senate. I thank the Hon. Member for her question, a pertinent question that affects all the people of Zimbabwe because of the state of the roads. I believe this question also concerns various representatives that are represented in this august House. It is common cause that we had a lot of rains and they were good on one side. God has answered our prayers in terms of food security but on the other hand it was detrimental. It damaged our road infrastructure. The entire road infrastructure in rural areas and in urban centres roads was destroyed.
Let me say, Madam President, we are grateful our President, His Excellency President Mnangagwa with his vision and his understanding that once we are faced with a problem as a country people should quickly attended to. His Government has found it fit to declare the state of roads as a national disaster including the place where the Hon. Sen. comes from. As regards the funding towards the redressing of these roads it is on all the media, print media and television that the Government has budgeted $33 billion ZWD for the purpose of road reconstruction and this is for a three year period. It has been given in phases from the first phase to the second phase. The first phase is to patch the potholes that were caused by these incessant rains, the second phase was the resealing of the edges of the roads.
For these ones they are also going to rehabilitate the sharp edges of the roads in selected areas where roads were damaged in terms of resealing. Also it is inclusive of the grass and the trees that quickly grow so that they are hindering the sight of drivers and they are now causing accidents. Phase one is to make sure that all such grass has been cut so that people can have good visibility. In the second phase, roads are going to be rehabilitated so that they become more user friendly and that they have a longer life. The last phase would be Phase 4 which is now the third phase, the reconstruction of bridges that were damaged by the rains. The money for the first phase which is patching of patch holes and resealing was given to provinces. Our engineers in each province are already on the ground and others are still at tendering stage so that companies that are doing this work can be engaged. A lot of provinces have already started this work.
Some roads in Mutare and Bindura have been resealed. Last week I was in Kezi and Matopo and the resealing project has been carried out in earnest.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. Has the Ministry resumed issuing of birth certificates to children born during the COVID-19 lockdown from 2020 up to now?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS ANDCULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MABOYI): Yes, we have started but there is a very huge backlog.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: One can have their motor vehicle exempted and can keep the vehicle for 10 or more years at home. When the vehicle is now running, you are then asked to pay covering the exemption period that covers the 10 years.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May you please go straight to the question.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: That is where I am going to. How is it that the outstanding amount is equivalent to the value of the motor vehicle?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): There are a lot of people who do not know how it is in terms of penalties that will then exceed the value of the motor vehicle. It is just an issue of knowing what is required when a vehicle has broken down and you have stayed a lot of time before the vehicle is fixed and is back on the road. You need to approach our Licensing Department so that you are given an exemption certificate that a vehicle is a non runner. A document which shows that your motor vehicle is a non runner is also issued. Once it is back on the road, you go back and inform them and you will not be punished because the motor vehicle was not on the road.
If you drive a motor vehicle which is exempted, you will be arrested by the police. You cannot use the exemption certificate to use your motor vehicle on the road. As people’s representatives, it is important that we educate our constituents that they should be given a certificate that the motor vehicle is a non runner. Once it is now on the road, you also tell them that it is back on the road.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education. What is Government’s policy as regards school children who are going to schools and test positive to COVID-19? What measures have you put in place to ensure that parents are not going to get pupils from schools back home? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, INNOVATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. MACHINGURA): Thank you Madam President. Thank you Hon. Senator for your pertinent question. Let me start by giving a background. COVID-19 has become problematic and has caused a lot of pain in people’s lives and it has also disturbed our economy. We thank God that in discussing, we have lost lives but in comparison to other countries, they have lost a lot of lives. It is our first intention that all the school children should remain alive. That is the Ministry’s intention. When we had shut down as a Ministry, we also had to observe national shutdown and our pupils were no longer in school. So, the parents and all stakeholders started complaining that schools needed to be reopened so that children could go to school. Others also complained that in terms of their performance, they would have to write examinations, they were being left behind in their curriculum. So our Ministry came up with a position paper to write that each institution should follow certain guidelines so that there would be a containment of COVID-19 so that it does not spread to other pupils who are at school. In our first attempt we did not succeed. We had two institutions that had reports of COVID cases. When we reopened the second time, at the moment we are grateful that it would appear we are on top of the situation. We are managing very well at all material times and we are observing the COVID regulations even in classrooms. I thank you Madam President.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Transport and Infrastructure Development. Is he aware that our roads are like death traps especially with haulage trucks that tail each other closely so much that if you try to overtake, you cannot even do so because traffic piles up and it becomes difficult to overtake. What is your Ministry doing about it? It is so scary and our roads are a nightmare to travel on.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Hon. President. We have now managed to construct the Beitbridge-Harare Road and so far we have made 165kms from resources mobilised locally. Our road network in this county is more than 85000kms but if you see the resources that are supposed to be shared they are very limited. So, I promised the Hon. Senator that the Government and the resilient Zimbabweans will continue prioritising our road infrastructure and we will get to a point where our roads will be the best in this region. But I do agree that our roads are not exactly to the standards that we really expect but it is because of the limited resources that we have. I thank you Madam President.
+HON. KHUMALO: On a point of Order Madam President. The Minister responded to what I did not ask. I talked about haulage trucks following each other closely such that we fail to overtake when driving small vehicles. We spend a lot of time following those haulage trucks because we are afraid of overtaking them in order to avoid a head on collision but I thank him for explaining what I had not asked. Can I ask him to respond to my question?
*HON. SEN. MADIRO: Thank you Hon. President, when I started, I had sort refuge from you and I am glad that you agreed. I thank the Hon. Senator for the question. Indeed looking at haulage trucks as they drive through our roads in their current state, we realise that there is a lot of risk because of the state of our roads as haulage trucks and smaller vehicles try to navigate. So Government has plans to improve our roads as I alluded to earlier on, we have since expanded the Beitbridge road. We want to extend this to other roads so that haulage trucks and smaller vehicles may navigate properly. I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Members, I think we now have the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare and the Minister of State for Provincial Affairs for Mashonaland Central and the Minister of Justice, Legal and parliamentary Affairs in case you need to ask them questions.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Leader of Business in the House. Zimabbwe is an agricultural country and as such, the country is getting into winter wheat season. This crop requires constant or uninterrupted irrigation thereby calling for the availability of ZESA energy. May I know from the Minister what plans or preparations have been made to ensure sufficient supply or availability of ZESA energy to allow uninterrupted irrigation of the crop, thereby guaranteering a high yield? I thank you Madam President.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for that very important question. This is the concern which all our farmers have and a concern which Government is seized with. There have been a lot of preparations to make sure that we also increase our yields of winter wheat. We have successfully done very well for our maize crop. We are expecting very high yields, that will certainly save the country the foreign currency which we need for other things which we do not produce because we have been finding ourselves as a country using foreign currency to import maize which we can produce. Through the Pfumvudza, we have had so much good rains and thanks to the Lord up there, and our yields expected are very high.
The Government through the astute leadership of His Excellency, President Mnangagwa has come up with another Pfumvudza for the wheat production and that is going to allow a lot of our small farmers who at least have got water to be able to plant wheat. This is being done, working together the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Energy to make sure that there will be sufficient electricity to pump water so that our wheat is irrigated well. I want to assure the Hon. Senator that there is a lot of work which is being done through the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Energy together. We are happy because we had a lot of rains and we are getting quite a substantial amount of electricity from the Kariba that is being saved to make sure that all our farmers will have sufficient electricity to irrigate their wheat. I thank you.
(v)HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE: What is Government policy on the tobacco farmers who are cutting down trees to cure their tobacco?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you very much Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chisorochengwe for that very important question. Her concern which is a concern of Government to make sure that we cannot continuously cut our trees. We will be damaging the environment and we will not leave any legacy for the future generations. Government, through EMA, makes it a point that those who are cutting trees are criminalised and that practice should stop. There is enough coal in the country to make sure that the tobacco farmers can access that to cure their tobacco crop. So the issue of cutting trees is a bad practice for our country. We need to make sure that we save our nature and let us all try not to cut trees. We implore all tobacco farmers to make sure that they do not cut trees unless you grow your own trees at your farm which you will cut to make sure you cure your tobacco crop. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Water, Climate and Fisheries. In his absence, may I direct it to the Leader of the House? Zimbabwe is well known for good civil engineering standards but here I heard the Deputy Minister applauding the construction of Masvingo Roads by local engineers. What is Government policy towards construction of dams by Zimbabweans in this country?
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATIONPUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Makumbe who asked about the success story in the construction of our roads using our local engineers. What can stop us from doing that when it comes to the construction of dams?
Government policy is that we should do all we can as much as possible as a country or locally. You saw when the President officially opened the Management Training Bureau in Msasa where there was showcasing of local students. That means we should make use of them as much as possible. Currently, the 5.0 curriculum that was launched by the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development is also a sign that indeed our local talent must be promoted because every time we import engineers, we are exporting jobs and also losing foreign currency. So as much as possible, we should be making use of local experts and only import when necessary. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. What is Government saying right now in terms of negotiations with teachers because school children are now learning only two days in a week, meaning we now have two categories because there are some schools that are paying incentives and their students are taught full time. Government should ensure that there is no segregation.
What is Government’s plan to ensure that school children do not attend school for two days only but should attend school regularly like we used to know? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Mr. President for the wonderful question that was posed by Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema. The question is wonderful in that it gives us an opportunity to clarify the situation.
There are two issues and the first is to do with teachers’ salaries that are leading to teachers not reporting for duty or resorting to attending work for two days per week. On the issue Hon. President, we have negotiated between Government representatives and teachers’ representatives; the APEX Council. So the discussions were twofold. The first step of negotiations resolved that civil servants would be awarded 25% salary increment effective April, 2021. The civil servants rejected the offer by Government saying they want more.
The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development then explained that there had been a misunderstanding because they had offered 70% which will be disbursed in two batches. The first payment is to be received this April of 25% then another 45% to be disbursed in June making it 70% in total. So the Government team went back to meet with the representatives so that they negotiate. The civil servants rejected the offer of 70% and said that they were incapacitated and cannot report for duty. They opted to report for duty only two days per week which they claim is equivalent to their current salaries. So some teachers are doing that.
I know that there is a problem that some teachers report for duty but do not teach and children are being denied the education they deserve. The Government team went back to the negotiating table so that our offer may be reconsidered, hence Treasury and Public Service Commission technical people are meeting to see how they can increase the offer to the civil servants. We are saying that since Government has opened the negotiation forum, may civil servants especially teachers go back to work whilst negotiations go on.
The other point is; if we look at what has been happening since last year to date, Government has awarded its workers a lot of reviews, that is, February, June and July last year there was an increment and in October last year. These reviews were being made in big percentages of 140%; 150% and 140% towards the end of the year. This year due to limited revenue, we started off with 25% in April and in June; if we get better revenue we scale it up to 45%. This means that during the first half of this year, it will be 70% but civil servants are rejecting this offer. So Government ended up saying, the 25% that was offered in April and has been effected as we speak, since we made all these reviews to date – we should now enforce that those who do not report for duty should not be paid. This can be effected in most Government sectors and management, directors and permanent secretaries can ensure that this is enforced. We are saying that this should be enforced in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education so that those teachers who do not report for duty are not paid. Headmasters should ensure that teachers do not just go to work and sit but should also actually teach. So, that is the issue with regards to payments.
The other thing is schools have established that system because of COVID-19. It is now a requirement that they go to school in phases in order to stick to COVID-19 guidelines. So, they are encouraged to attend virtual online lessons when they are not at school physically in order to ensure that students do not gather unnecessarily at one time. We also realised that in some places, it is not possible for that learners to attend virtual lessons because they do not have the required resources. The other thing is, we have few teachers so they may not be able to effect that. So, we are saying that is also a problem that may be there but we are saying schools should come up with solutions in order to ensure that learners do not lose out in terms of learning.
With regard to salaries, Government is working out to ensure that workers are motivated properly but the workers should also appreciate efforts that are being made by Government. According to our revenue at the moment, it is not possible for us to go beyond what we have already offered. We may actually adjust or increase but not with a big percentage because we stand guided by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think I will allow the supplementary question because the subject matter under discussion is of national significance.
*HON. SEN. DENGA: Those in boarding schools are learning every day. Are those learners who are only attending school for two days per week going to be at the same level with those at boarding schools?
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Let me thank the Hon. Senator for the good question. It is Government’s wish to ensure that all learners get equal learning opportunity regardless of whether they are day scholers or boarders. Some learners go to school physically in phases whilst when they are not at school physically, they are supposed to be on line. Where learners only go to school two days per week, schools are supposed to come up with ways to ensure that the learners catch up with others. That is a responsibility given to the Headmaster as well as District Inspectors to ensure that all the students who may have attended school in fewer days should be able to catch up with those who are attending school regularly. That is the responsibility that has been tasked upon the structure of the Ministry of Education to ensure that all learners catch up or get equitable learning opportunity and time.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Mabika be brief so that we close Questions Without Notice time.
*HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President, my question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. There is a scheme which started recently and it is a pilot project of 57 dollars per pupil from Grade Zero to Grade Two. My question is, can this grant be increased especially looking at the value of money so that it makes meaning to schools because some schools charge RTGs1 000 whilst Government is only paying 57 dollars.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. SEN. MATHEMA): Yes, indeed, we are doing everything we can to make sure that basic education eventually becomes free in this country, particularly in public schools. So, we do everything to combine and discuss even with Hon. Members and parents so that we come to an understanding because education needs all of us to be involved. That is what the State can afford and what parents can afford. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 66.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
PROTECTION OF TEACHERS AND STUDENTS IN RURAL AREAS IN LIGHT OF COVID-19 PANDEMIC
- HON. SEN. TONGOGARA asked the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to inform the House measures being put in place to protect teachers and students in rural areas in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you Mr. President and I thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for the question. In 2020 the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, working in conjunction with the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the National Task Force on covid-19, came up with standard operating procedures in schools. The procedures are meant to protect both the learners and the teachers from COVID-19 as they emphasise on COVID-19 preventative measures such as social distancing, wearing of masks and sanitising.
The Ministry, through Treasury, has also procured some covid-19 abatement equipment. The majority of the beneficiary schools are the disadvantaged rural schools. We have also encouraged our schools with capacity to prepare their own masks. Some of the rural schools have been forthcoming in this regard. I thank you Mr. President.
ENACTMENT OF THE NATIONAL DISABILITY POLICY
- 2. HON. SEN. TONGOGARA asked the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to inform the House when the National Disability Policy to alleviate the plight of people living with disability will be enacted into law.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. PROF. MAVHIMA): Mr. President Sir, I beg your indulgence to have the questions referring to my Ministry to be deferred until next week because I did not receive this week’s prepared statements.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): It is agreed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Hon. President. With your indulgence, Hon. President, on 25th March the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development was asked by Hon. Sen. Mpofu and the Minister promised to give further explanation. I would ask your indulgence Hon. President to allow me to present that response.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Minister was it an oral question or a written question?
HON. MADIRO: It was an oral question and the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development promised to bring a written response to it.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Then the approach should be you come with a Ministerial Statement on the matter so it cannot be part of the question time. Now you want to prepare a Ministerial Statement and you can then deliver that statement at the appropriate time. Thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA) in terms of Standing Order No. 62
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 2021 VIRTUAL HEARINGS AT THE UNITED NATIONS ON FIGHTING CORRUPTION TO RESTORE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT AND IMPROVE DEVELOPMENT PROSPECTS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 2011 Virtual Parliamentary Hearing at the United Nations under the theme, ‘Fighting Corruption to Restore Trust in Government and Improve Development Prospects’, held on 17th and 18th February 2021.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I would like to thank Senator Muzenda for raising this important motion on corruption. It is true that corruption destroys people. One or two people may be involved in this corruption but the effect to the whole country is that it is very destructive especially in Government. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development disburses funds for example to roads then that money does not get there but is squandered by two or three people. If we look at the state of the roads right now, it is killing the citizenry.
Corruption goes all the way. We hear right now in some country the President fired his Minister because he squandered covid funds. What it means is some citizens died because the money that was supposed to be used to save them did not get there. So corruption is very bad. It should be reined in through strong legislation. There should be very strong laws. Yes indeed, in this country right now, we see there is an Anti Corruption Commission. Those institutions must be empowered to ensure that they are effective but a Government can only be measured on how strong it is in fighting corruption through the strength of its institutions such as Anti-Corruption Commission, the police force, the courts and the judiciary. They must be empowered with undiluted powers because if they do not get enough power, they may be threatened by other officials like Hon. Komichi. If my relative engages in corruption, I call the police and my relative is released. We should be cautious as a people that institutions must be strengthened. If they are strengthened, we will discover that they will work effectively in reducing corruption.
The statistics that we hear where money is embezzled through corruption amounts to millions of dollars. According to some who have researched, they say even sanctions have not destroyed the economy or consumed a lot of money more than what has been lost through corruption. We should all unite to fight corruption as Zimbabweans. We may fail to get investors because of corruption.
In this country, there are some areas where investors ended up not coming because they were asked to pay 10% of a figure even up to the tune of $100 000 000.00. The business person then wonders; if he has to pay 10% before starting work, where can he get the money to invest? This happens in Zimbabwe. There are a lot of projects that did not take off because of corruption. The scourge of corruption should be looked into seriously. We should never defend ourselves when it comes to corruption. Even in indexes, we realise that people squander Government money as if they are eating aphrodisiacs. We encourage Government to work strongly to stop corruption and it should never be selective according to denomination, whether it is Zion or Roman Catholic.
Government should be transparent and fight corruption head on and take corruption as an enemy. If this issue is handled properly, this country can succeed. That is why we realise that a country may have been number five but now number one. It may be number 80 but now number 20 because there will be programmes and institutions that are put in place to fight corruption to reduce the index. Since this issue has been talked about, indeed the whole world is mourning about corruption. The efforts to stop corruption must come through strong legislations.
In conclusion, the Zimbabwe Anti-corruption Commission should be empowered enough to do its job. The Zimbabwe Republic Police should be empowered to do its job. As civil servants, we must stop corruption and work honestly. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I would like to reiterate a few words on this motion that was brought up by Hon. Sen. Muzenda. I am pained very much by corruption. In my view, we may not be able to end corruption. Why do I say so? We see corruption happening everyday but our problem is; if I am to report that I saw Senator Muzenda being involved in corruption, I become the bad person. Be it from legislation, instead of ensuring that those people are charged, they end up being released as well. I end up choosing to ignore because there is nothing I can do. If I see corruption happening in Zaka, then I am summoned in Harare to testify at my expense, I end up giving up or in the end; I may also engage in corruption in order to get what I desire. We should rectify that.
There is an issue that pains me right now. There is corruption at the Passport Office but if you want to get a passport, you pay a bribe in front of the police. When that person is trapped and arrested, you are asked to testify but in that instance, I am exposed to a lot of risk and some people end up blaming you. The person that you may have reported may also mourn about you causing their loss of jobs. I think the legislation should be tight enough. If I report corruption, why should I then be looked for? The police should do their job. It becomes a problem when you are a whistle blower because you face a mammoth task of trying to testify. That is the reason why corruption is not ending. The justice delivery system should ensure that it works properly. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr President Sir, for giving me this opportunity to talk about corruption. As the Chief said, it is very difficult for corruption to end because the only thing left in Zimbabwe is that every citizen will corrupt him/herself. This issue of corruption is never ending because when you want to take the issue of corruption to higher offices, you realise that is where it is starting from. What the Chief said is all true. Sometimes when travelling and you get to a roadblock the police officer will not know the person driving the vehicle but they will demand to check the vehicle, that is licences and the registration book and they will want to check the tyres as well, yet the vehicle will be roadworthy. They then request for a bribe citing that they are starving. Why would a person pay something if the vehicle has all the proper documentation? The person driving the vehicle will not want to spend a lot of time by the roadblock. The other thing is when you get to the tollgate, it takes you an hour to pass through and it is not because of the long queues but because you will be pleading with the officials manning the tollgate to pass through. If you do not pay anything, you will wait for a very long time.
I came across a matter which I want to talk about. We were given vehicles by Government but then you hear people from the car companies saying if you rush ZIMRA, you will not get anything so you just have to wait. I, however, decided to confront the ZIMRA officials on whether we had to plead with them to do their jobs which they applied for. After that, I realised that there were some changes in the way they conducted their business. I will keep referring to what was said by the Hon. Sen. Chief.
You see a person doing something wrong and try to reprimand that person but that person will say even if you go and report me anywhere, nothing will come out because a relative of mine is a minister. With that, corruption will never end in Zimbabwe. Yesterday the chiefs stood up firmly together and that was good. If we continue standing up together as one, we will go far as a country. In the past we knew that the chiefs stood for the truth. You would not bribe the chiefs and they will sit in traditional court trials and the outcome would be very good. A beast will be slaughtered for the chiefs to eat after a wonderful job done. Today my request to the chiefs is that they should stand firm as they did in the past. That is all I ask Mr. President. I thank you Sen. Muzenda for raising this motion on corruption. I would have loved the motion to be debated the whole year.
Even here at Parliament, you may want to go and collect your coupons but you will be told the coupons are not there but in a few seconds, you will see another Hon. Member counting his/her coupons. Then you ask how come they have their coupons and you are told because I had to give a coupon to someone. My request goes back to the chiefs because we respect and trust you to fix this issue of corruption. Is it because you are Chief Charumbira and they respect you but what about me? My request is that we should follow the queue so that I get what everyone is being given. The chiefs are respected, so continue standing up together for the truth. With these few words, I want to thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF. MAKUMBE: Thank you Hon. President of the Senate for affording me this opportunity to also add my voice to this motion on corruption. Corruption destroys opportunities. Most of us are what we are because of opportunities but if there is corruption opportunities are taken away especially from the marginalised. They remain down trodden because of that. I would like to say corruption starts with us leaders because we just look at what is happening without taking action. A fish starts rotting from the head; so let us lead by example be it a Chief or Member of Parliament or if in any leadership post, let us show good leadership qualities.
We may spend time debating but there is need for will power for anyone to condemn corruption. If we start engaging in corruption, quality is taken away in the construction of anything. We see how bad our roads are, those are some examples of corruption. If I am paid to turn a blind eye, I just ignore. Corruption divides people and its country. The corrupt will live happily; just like the song we used to sing as children. ‘Those who are down will be attacked by millipedes whilst we can be eaten by white birds’. We should know that as a country, some of the laws that we pass also abet corruption.
Recently there was an outcry while looking for form one places. People are asked to look for form one places online but a child in Charumbira village does not have gadgets to go online. That opportunity is taken away by someone in Rujeko instead of that person getting a place at Gokomere. We are told that because of COVID-19, we are reducing the number of learners being admitted in schools but when the child gets a place in school, we realise that they are squashed and even social distancing is no longer there. In this august House, I like women because they debate everyday on progressive things, but because of corruption, we fail to get to 50% in terms of representation because of corruption –and because of corruption men buy their way. So dealing with corruption should start from the top so that the people following us will also learn from our good example.
This is our country and we will live in it until we die. We will leave it to the next generation. As a human being, make a resolution that you will not be involved in corruption and you will not oppress anyone. We make rulings as chiefs – some approach chiefs that they are prepared to pay them using a beast or a cow but that is corruption. As legislators, let us make strong laws so that corruption may not survive in our society. We should have checks and balances in place. If there is a law, there should be a system for monitoring and evaluation.
So, because of COVID we said learners should go to school in smaller numbers, but do we ensure that is what is happening? No, that is corruption. During the land allocation, there was an area reserved for grazing but as we go on, we realised that there were homesteads and that is corruption. As leaders, let us rectify that. Corruption can destroy this country. We may do whatever we try to do but corruption must be stopped. As individuals, let us say no to corruption and that will also help us in our society. Let us not oppress people. Where we come from in the rural areas, people are suffering. Some people in the rural areas may spend the whole year without even drinking tea. The day they get a sip, their lips are burnt because they do not know the difference between tea and soft drinks. Let us give everyone the opportunity and God will bless us. Let us all stop corruption. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Hon. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on corruption. Corruption is a disease, a cancer or a pandemic that has spread the world over. Zimbabwe is also included. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Muzenda for bringing up such a very good motion. I also like to appreciate the contributions that have come up. Corruption indeed starts from an individual, be it at your household level, it may spread to the local community and to national level. The problem why we are not properly handling corruption is that you hear the issue of catch and release. You hear that people have been arrested because of corruption, but later you hear that they are released.
It is very important to have people who are really trained and well educated on how corruption issues are handled with evidence being brought up, not because sometimes because of politics. Sometimes as women, we may be oppressed because of poverty, but on the issue that we are debating, people must be well trained. Sometimes there are elections that are going on, sometimes people are chosen through corrupt ways and sometimes people may generate a story on social media that alleges corruption.
For example, upon Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira but what I am saying is as legislators, we must have an oversight. Let us not allow people to be tarnished their images through social media whereby any allegation is taken and considered as real without proper consideration or investigation. The law says you are innocent until proven guilty. If you are arrested and if there is a real issue not when someone just comes up with an issue – that you are arrested without evidence or investigation and then it becomes as if it is catch and release. Yet, it will only be out of suspicion. We must be seen to be serious and the President must be respected for that.
The problem is that there are a lot of false allegations that are going on. So, no one will take us seriously and we will score lowly when it comes to the index. Human dignity should be considered when there are arrests or allegations. When there is an investigation, there should be a good investigation. Law enforcement agents should be well trained to separate rumours and reasonable allegations. Let us not act upon rumours because by the time we get to the courts, it will become just mere allegations that will not stand and it becomes a ‘catch and release’. Otherwise we end up losing credibility because of that and it is as if this ‘catch and release’ was just meant for propaganda. Let us ensure that we investigate properly so that Government does not face litigations or being sued. Investigators should work on fact and not hearsay or rumours.
I thank you Hon. President for giving me this opportunity. Human Rights and people’s rights must be considered in investigations. People must be arrested only when there are reasonable grounds and not when there are rumours because it becomes a ‘catch and release’ and sometimes you destroy people’s lives because of basing on rumours that are posted on social media. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th April, 2021.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL PROVINCE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Three Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 27th April, 2021.