PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 14th August, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS
NUMBER 50, 61, 62 and 128
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
President of Senate, I seek leave of the Senate to move that the provisions of Standing Orders No. 50, 61, 62 and 128 regarding the automatic adjournment of the Senate at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock
p.m. and at Twenty-Five Minutes past One o’clock p.m on a Friday, private Members’ motions taking precedence on Thursdays after Question Time and that Question Time shall be on Thursdays and Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended with effect from today and the next series of sitting in respect of the business relating to the following Bills: 1) Finance (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 13, 2019];
2) Appropriation (Supplementary) Bill [H. B. 12, 2019]; and 3) Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3A, 2019].
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister, are there
any reasons for that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Firstly, as is our custom, at the end of July-August every year, we finish our first sitting of the year and we resume in September after the President has given the State of the Nation Address. So consistent with our custom, we sit either end of this month or beginning of September when the President now sets out the legislative agenda for the Second Session of the Ninth Parliament. We want to dispose of these Bills before we commence the Second Session of the Ninth Parliament.
Madam President, Finance Bills are also important in terms of ensuring that the relevant budget as budgeted for by the Minister of
Finance are appropriated to the respective ministries and departments.
Also, the Maintenance of Peace and Order is part of our legislative reform agenda Bills that have been outstanding for a long time. The Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) also requested extension of time so that they could consider it and we pray that you will grant us so that we will complete it also within this session and so that when we start the next session we would have completed these pieces of legislation, I so submit Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Minister.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NUMBER 50, 61, 62 and
128
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
President of Senate, I move that the provisions of Standing Orders Number 50, 61, 62 and 128 regarding the automatic adjournment of the
Senate at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. and at Twenty-Five
Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday, private Members’ motions taking precedence on Thursdays after Question Time, and that Question Time shall be on Thursdays and Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended with effect from today and for the next series of sittings in respect of the following:-
- Finance (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 13, 2019];
- Appropriation (Supplementary) Bill [H. B. 12, 2019]; and 3) Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3A, 2019].
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 3 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL 2019 [H. B. 3A,
2019]
Third Order read: Second Reading: Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill 2019 [H. B. 3A, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. Madam President and Hon. Senators, please indulge me Hon. Senators, to permit me to repeat only the opening paragraph of my Second Reading speech on this Bill to the National Assembly. I will then proceed to a summary of the main changes to the Bill that were agreed in the National Assembly. As for the rest of the Bill, the explanatory memorandum suffices to explain its provisions and I will not repeat them here.
Madam President, Section 117 of our Constitution exhorts the
Legislature, among other things, “to make laws for the peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe.” It is not by chance that these three things, “peace”, “order” and “good governance” keep company with each other in the same sentence. I will go further and say that peace and order are the preconditions for enjoying all the other blessings we desire for ourselves – family, prosperity, community, the pursuit of knowledge and happiness, freedom, liberty of worship, self-determination and the security of property. No matter what our differences may be, peace and order afford us the time to think and argue among ourselves how we may improve if we have gone wrong. As Aristotle once said; “The use of rational speech is more distinctive of human beings than the use of their limbs.”
Hon. Senators, after very prolonged and frank but useful debate in the House below, the following are the principle improvements to the Bill that we managed to agree upon:
At the beginning of the Bill, after the Long Title, a Preamble has been inserted in the Bill rehearsing the relevant provisions of Section 86 of the Constitution, concerning the “Limitation of Rights and
Freedoms.”
In Clause 4, the reference to “traditional weapons” as a special category of “dangerous weapons” was removed as this only caused confusion. A dangerous weapon is dangerous regardless of whether it is
“traditional” or not, so why single out “traditional weapons?” A Regulatory Authority may ban the carrying of any weapon or item deemed to be a “dangerous weapon” in the appropriate banning notice.
Furthermore, the ban on the carrying of such weapons within any Police District is limited to the three months within any period of 12 months unless the Regulatory Authority seeks leave from a Magistrate to renew or extend the ban.
Madam President, on Clause 7 of the Bill, the penalty clause sub clause (5) was replaced. Please note however, that the level of the fine in the last line of that sub clause is level 10, which by error was omitted from the consolidated Bill before you.
On Clause 8, the pre-gathering consultations between the Regulatory Authority and the convener of the gathering (be it a public demonstration or procession of a public meeting) are fast-tracked if the convener gives appropriate verbal reassurances to the satisfaction of the Regulatory Authority that the gathering will be peaceful (see the second proviso to sub clause (3) of clause 8)
On Clause 10, I ask Hon. Senators to note the inadvertent omission of the words “and leave thereof” in line 24 of sub clause (2) of this clause, otherwise the clause will not make sense grammatically. This is a textual correction required to make sense of this clause, which was much debated in the House below. It was agreed there that “permission” was too strong a word to use in case where, for instance, a group of petitioners intention to present a petition to the Speaker; however, notice of that intention must still be given to the Speaker in order that appropriate security arrangements may be put in place.
Significant changes were agreed to Clause 12. In sub clause (2), the joint liability of conveners where there are two or more conveners of the same gathering has been limited. Where any of the joint conveners can show to a court that he or she was not personally a party to any breach of the terms for an authorised gathering, that convener will not be held jointly liable with the other convener or conveners. In sub clause (3), paragraph (c) was removed which renders the convener civilly liable for inciting violence at an authorised gathering. It was not felt necessary to keep this paragraph since the prohibition against incitement to violence is a standard condition in the conditions ordinarily attached to permitted gatherings.
In Clause 13, sub-clauses (4) and (6) have been rephrased to make it clear what “degree of force” is appropriate when the Police must use force to disperse an unruly gathering.
As regards Clause 14, (Persons to carry identity documents”) of the Bill, we have conceded that no police officer ought to demand the production of an identity document from anyone except upon reasonable suspicion that the person has committed some offence. Very often, the mere production of such an ID will dissolve suspicions of criminality and hence make an arrest unnecessary.
Madam President, in Clause 15 concerning cordon and search, we agreed in the House below that the establishment of a cordon ought not to be restricted narrowly to the investigation or prevention of public order offences. To that end, we have employed the list of derogations or limitations to freedoms listed in Section 86 of the Constitution as possible justifications for the establishment of a cordon by the Police: such justifications include public health, where cordons may be needed to enforce a quarantine.
In Clause 16, the establishment of a checkpoint is permitted only where three or more police officers are present instead of simply one.
The explicit reference to “firearms” in sub clause (5) has been removed, because the use of such lethal means as a last resort is implicit in the phrase “to take any steps necessary” to prevent or stop violence on the part of participants at a gathering.
I also wish to draw the attention of Hon Senators to Clause 18 which specifies the circumstances under which the Defence Forces may be summoned to assist the police. This provision is included in compliance with Government’s obligations under Section 213 of the Constitution.
In conclusion, the Government objects strongly to the characterisation of the Bill as “undemocratic” without specifying in what specific respects the Bill is undemocratic or how it violates the charter of rights and freedoms in any way not contemplated in a democratic society. The rights and freedoms of demonstrators are not the only rights and freedoms to be considered when a gathering has the potential to become disorderly; other human beings have rights and freedoms too, in particular those who may be victimised in their persons and property by unruly demonstrators. To quote in part from Section 87 of our Constitution:
“(2) The fundamental rights and freedoms set out in (the Declaration of Rights and Freedoms), this Chapter may be limited only in terms of a law of general application and to the extent that the limitation is fair, reasonable, necessary and justifiable in a democratic society based on openness, justice, human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all relevant factors including – (b) the purpose of the limitation, in particular whether it is necessary in the interests of defence, public safety, public order, public morality, public health, regional or town planning or the general public interest; and (d) the need to ensure that the enjoyment of rights and freedoms by any person does not prejudice the rights and freedoms of others”.
The same provision of the Constitution urges lawmakers to consider “whether there are any less restrictive means of achieving the purpose of the limitation”. This we have striven to do in the amendments to the Bill that are embodied in the Order Paper.
I therefore urge Hon. Members on all sides of this House to support this very necessary measure to secure peace and order in our beloved country.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I just want clarity from the Minister on
Section 18 of the Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill where the Defence Forces may assist police because the army has never been trained to work with the civilians. It has been trained to fight with a gun. Give the police their mandate as security officers to disperse demonstrators if need be. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill. I stood up to agree with the Minister that we need this Bill because we want peace in this country. Demonstrations have not been prevented but they should be carried out in peace and in an orderly fashion without any destruction of any property or houses. Demonstrations should be done in an orderly way. There is no country in this world where there are no rules and laws. We want peace in this country. The peace that is being spoken about in this Bill is what I am concurring with, which is what is in our Constitution that there should be peace in this country. I concur totally with what is in the Bill.
I also second this Bill in the sense that if we think of embarking on a demonstration or if violence erupts and people die, I do agree that the President of the country should deploy the army to quell the demonstrations. A lot of police officers have died during demonstrations and yet people were aware that these were police officers who were on duty. These are police officers who are killed in the line of duty. I agree with the import of the Bill because it is there to keep the sanctity of life. This is one of the best Bills in this country because it shows that we are protected and we can carry out our businesses freely.
At times people work very hard for them to raise money for their children but more often these demonstrations destroy people’s property. The demonstrators destroy vegetables being sold by vendors or clothing merchandise in shops. This is a very good Bill because it is going to prevent all this. If an ordinary person does not want to be part and parcel of the demonstrations, they should be allowed to move freely because they also have rights. Everyone has rights. If someone builds a house, he has a right that the house should not be destroyed by demonstrators – it is their right. Even our buildings, for example the Parliament, people are allowed 20 metres away from the august House. So this august House must be protected as well.
I remember sometime in South Africa, people were not allowed to smoke even in Government buildings – that is a rule. So we also must look after our own buildings because these are things that will be inherited by our children for years to come. Yes, I realise that this Bill allows people to demonstrate and also allows the police to follow what the convener says, like the route that the convener would have said they follow. If they divert from their route, the police should prevent them from doing so.
The President should also deploy the army whenever violence erupts during demonstrations. The President is the Commander-in-Chief of the army, so he has the powers and it is enshrined in our Constitution that he should protect people from dying. I think that it is a law because we all want to live. Whose child is supposed to die on that day? We want our children to grow up knowing that we have to look after our country and not destroy it. We have to look after our country and our children should learn from us as their leaders. They should know that it is good to live in a peaceful country. Let us live together amicably as children of Zimbabwe, not to go and destroy other people’s properties if we do not agree on something.
I agree with the fact that the convener should be held responsible if property is destroyed. Like if my car is destroyed – I think that is correct because it will protect people. We do not want people to do as they please. I agree with you Hon. Minister that this is a very good Bill. We want peace in this country and we want to live in peace. There is no development when there is destruction of property and burning of other people’s properties but there is development when people are staying together in peace and harmony and sharing ideas. With these few words, I thank you.
HON. SEN. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Madam Speaker, I
stand to …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order it is
Madam President of the Senate.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Madam President, thank
you. I stand to buttress what has been said by the Hon. Minister and I am also standing representing the Thematic Committee of Peace and Security in the Senate. This is so because we, as a Committee, just to make sure that there is enough consultations on this particular Bill went around together with the Committee on Defence and Home Affairs. We went from 3rd June to 7th June in two groups and visited Mashonaland Central, Bindura and Mvurwi; Mashonaland East, Murewa and Marondera; Manicaland, we went to Mutare and Chipinge; Masvingo, we went to Nemamwe business centre and Gutu and we also went to Harare City Sports Centre and Chitungwiza Aquatic stadium.
Another group went to Midlands, Gokwe business centre, Gweru;
Matabeleland South, we went to Filabusi and Esigodini; in Bulawayo, Imnyela Hall and the Lupane Town Council in Matabeleland North together with Chinotimba Hall in Victoria Falls and we also went to Kadoma in Mashonaland West.
I must say that these consultations and I think that my colleagues in the Committee will agree with me, were very extensive as people discussed very extensively in these Committees. I must say that the public hearings were attended by various groups; i.e. youths, war veterans, pensioners, business persons, Government officials, farmers, lawyers, residents associations, representatives of disabled persons, civic society organisations and members of the public in general. There were quite extensive and frank discussions and I am glad that the Hon.
Minister then submitted our report to the Parliamentary Legal
Committee who looked at it and subsequently submitted it to the Hon. Minister. I think that appropriate recommendations that came partly from our Committee and mostly from the National Assembly last week, really represented what this Bill and eventually this Act should be.
I think that the amendments and concessions that have been made by the Hon. Minister are quite significant to make us appreciate that we have moved away from the Law and Maintenance Act of Lardner Burke to POSA and now to MOPA and there are significant differences in these particular Bills, and in particular this Bill that will become an Act.
Hon. Minister, you have done well because I noticed that you addressed various issues and to me, you picked on some of those issues in our recommendations. I am glad that you have really addressed them extensively and with sensitivity. This is what it should be in the country. We should be able to respond to what people are saying and you seem to have appropriately done that.
You have looked at the issue of dangerous weapons and cultural traditional weapons and amalgamated that and made no exception. I think that is sensitivity and we like that. I think that a lot of people will appreciate that – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - You also looked at the issue of verbal assuarances. It will not really need to write just verbal assurances to us for the conveners will be sufficient. I think that is a lot of goodwill from a Government and we should really applaud that and be able to say, ‘well, this is how it should be’. You have also looked at some of the grammatical errors to make it make sense, where you say, ‘convener in the line thereof’. I think that is important just to pick that up and be able to say to us, ‘yes, these are important things for us’. You have also looked at the issue of joint conveners – we like that. The joint conveners - if one is not liable then they should be left alone and that is sensitivity that I think we need to look at.
Madam President, I want to support this Bill and say really even the issue of just reasonable suspicion, I think that makes that sensitivity to us very transparent. So I want to support this Bill and hope that members of our Committee will also be able to say, ‘yes, we discussed these issues. There were differences here and there but I think what has now happened is to be able to amalgamate some of our concerns and put them properly into a perspective which then makes the country go forward together in unity’. So as Peace and Security Thematic Committee, we believe that this will bring peace and security into the country. I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, thank you very much
for giving me this opportunity to discuss and debate on this Bill called the Maintenance of Peace and Order (MOPO).
Madam President, when I look at this document here, I realise that for those who were born during my time when we were fighting Ian
Smith, we had what was called ‘LOMA’, - Law and Order Maintenance Act and from there, we then came to POSA I think if I am not wrong. LOMA was used to persecute our people and everyone who was black by the regime. When we came to POSA, certainly I was one of the people that were affected by it. I was charged three times for trying to overthrow a democratically elected Government but unfortunately, I did not even have a stone to throw, to manage to overthrow a democratically elected Government - that was under POSA.
Now comes MOPA or MOPO and MOPO as I see it, it is just a photocopy of the law that was passed in South Africa by the apartheid regime. If you look at this thing you find that the one that was passed in South Africa is even better than this one that we are now passing here in our country for ourselves. Ordinarily, it means we are not producing our own laws but laws that were produced by the apartheid regime. As for the POSA that we are referring to, we have simply duplicated it. If you look at this Bill you will find that there are only three sections that have been brought in from POSA but the whole document comes from a South African law that was passed I think in 1993 (205).
Madam President, it brings misery to us, to our society, to the country and to everyone who is in this country to see us standing up and saying the Minister has done a wonderful job by drafting this law. It is unfortunate that some of us might not have researched where the contents of this Bill is coming from. Certainly, it is coming from apartheid South Africa. It is not even there today in the South Africa that is independent but you are getting it to this country and we are seeing some Senators standing up clapping and saying this is a wonderful law.
Madam President, before I sit down, I will want the Minister to explain Section 12 of the Bill. I also want to understand the fact that you have a convener here who is going to be liable and charged as well as being asked to take responsibility. In most cases, if you look at the schedule there, there are organisations that are exempted. However, when you look at the convener, it is mostly political parties or organisations that deal with the issues that are political. My understanding is that a convener is like someone who is working for a company and if anything goes wrong it is not the person who is driving the car but the company that is liable and not the convener.
In this Bill, I see the person is being charged in his individual capacity and I think the Minister needs to explain so that we understand. Some of us are not very educated in the law aspect, so we need an understanding of what the certain sections mean, for example it will not be the convener who is going to be responsible but the organisation because when you convene anything you are doing it on behalf of the organisation and not for yourself. That to us is very important and you can get it in any society, political party, trade union or even a Christian organisation. The convener is doing it on behalf of a particular organisation. So, if I can get an explanation on that, it will be quite good for me. I believe most of the debate will be in the Committee stage. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I would like to differ slightly with what is being said here on issues of the army being deployed on the streets. Soldiers by nature are not trained to carry guns and go where there are people but they are deployed to go and fight during a war. A soldier is allowed to carry a gun to go and fight a war but now they are being deployed to the streets, so they are frightening us. At war, guns are kept in the armoury, so why are you saying guns should be carried on the streets? What are we expected to do? Can you answer that Minister?
+HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I also rise to second this Bill.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order Hon.
Senators, everyone is going to get a chance to debate. Please, we are all Hon. Members and if you do not agree you will get your chance to stand and put across your facts. So kuridza tsamwa and so forth is not honourable behaviour. It is not done by Hon. Members.
+HON. SEN. MKWEBU: I stood up to second this Bill. This Bill speaks mostly on peace for the country. We want well behaved people in the country and no one should go and destroy someone’s shop or someone’s wares. We do not want someone demonstrating and destroying property in the country. We know that everyone is allowed to demonstrate but they should do so peacefully and not destroy anything. If you destroy my things I will not be able to recover, buy or rebuild those things. Minister, we accept this Bill and we receive it with both hands. The President should have powers to request the soldiers to go and assist the police in the country for peace to be maintained in the country depending on the way demonstrations will be carried out. People are saying that there should be peace in the country and that people should not be armed. Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa as the Chairperson of the Committee has spoken on that.
We went around the country and people were supporting the Bill explicitly. Their sentiments were that a person should not move around without any form of I.D. If hit by a motor car or if involved in any kind of accident. one can quickly be identified and will not stay for long in the mortuary. A lot has been said by the Chairperson of Peace and Security. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Thank you Madam President
for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion.
This is one of the best Bills in this country and I support it. It is the best
Bill because forewarned is forearmed and experience is the best teacher. As I stand here, I am one of the people who have experience with these demonstrations. My house was destroyed through violence and my husband was nearly killed because by that time he was sick in bed. When I talk, I do so from experience, that is why I say once beaten twice shy.
Let me talk about recent occurrences. I visited Bulawayo and I felt very sad when I looked at a privately owned shop which had been destroyed by demonstrators. This individual had made a lot of sacrifices through savings so that he could fend for his family but then we have other individuals who are lazy, who go to such places to smash buildings and grab goods such as groceries and ploughs. This country should be a law abiding country.
I would like to say to the Minister, thank you for this Bill. As stated by the Chairperson of the Committee, Hon. Sen. Dr. Parirenyatwa said that they had public hearings on this law on demonstrations and people are supporting the Bill. Therefore, mechanisms should be put in place to protect members of the public whilst having the rights to demonstrate. We know we have these experiences where we have a police officer in Bulawayo; when he was going to buy his lunch and simply because he was a police officer in uniform, he was smashed and crushed to death. Sometimes you wonder as to where the spirit of humanism comes in when you see an individual getting weapons such as stones and knobkerries to smash somebody? That is why we are saying it is the responsibility of the President of this country and the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces to commandeer the armed forces to go and create peace and order in such situations.
This country of Zimbabwe came through the war of liberation and we are all related to these people who fought in the struggle for liberation. At times they would not be blood relatives but they are relatives. These people died to liberate this country. Who is going to commandeer these people to say go and murder these people? We know that when you have killed somebody, the avenging spirit will come and traumatise the murderer’s family. Who is going to pacify this avenging spirit and whosoever murders is definitely going to be affected by the avenging spirits. We are saying as leaders of these demonstrations, send your own children to go and demonstrate and fight people in the streets.
Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa, we thank you for coming up with this
Bill. We thank you for moving around gathering people’s views. What we know about the people of Zimbabwe is – as we say Zimbabwe is open for business, people go about selling because they want to sustain their families but these people are now forced to go and demonstrate.
I am one of those people who came under cross fire when I was close to Joina City and I was not aware of what was going on. I found myself into the crowd that was demonstrating and I had to advise my driver to speed the car through these demonstrators because I was afraid that they could attack me. I know because of my status in society they would have noticed me and they could kill me. I am happy we managed to come out of danger without even causing an accident.
So I am saying this Bill is one of the best Bills ever to be produced in this country. Therefore, the President in his capacity as the Commander–in-Chief should be given the powers to order the intervention of the military, should need arise.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion, which is my right as a Member of Parliament. Madam President, as I stand here representing Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), led by Nelson Chamisa, I am saying this is the worst Bill. I am also representing members of my party who are being tortured and traumatized. I am saying this is an oppressive Bill, oppressing the people of Zimbabwe. If I want to hold a meeting with members of my party so that we discuss issues regarding problems in our country, I should start by seeking permission from the police and if anything goes wrong during that meeting, the convener of that gathering will be persecuted. Madam President, as Members of Parliament and everybody in Zimbabwe, we need to read our Constitution which is the supreme law of the country. In the Constitution, it reads ‘citizens of Zimbabwe are free to do whatever it is they want’. I know we might debate this Bill but to tell you the truth, no matter how you look at the Bill it will not talk about bread and butter issues nor will it bring down the prices or bring fuel to our filling stations.
As MDC, we have a lot of demonstrations which were very successful. The only problem is that we have some infiltrators who come and disturb our processions. I remember we had a demonstration in the City of Harare which was peaceful. We demonstrate because Zimbabwe is burning. People are suffering from hunger and there are no jobs. As a political party which has people at heart, we are saying this Bill is saying an individual should be stopped and searched to see whether they have an I.D on them. The problem we are facing as a country is that at the moment people have no access to I.Ds or passports. We have people who were murdered during the Gukurahundi period and their dependents who survived cannot access documents because their parents died.
This Bill is aimed at a particular party such as the MDC which is looking forward to holding a peaceful demonstration. The people of Zimbabwe are tired of sleeping on queues for fuel. The people of Zimbabwe are suffering because there is no ready cash. When we talk about sanctions we cannot conclude this case because we are talking of a high ranking official of ZANU PF who is now in remand prison because of corruption. Corruption is not the root cause of all these problems but the problem we are faced with is that of mismanagement of the available resources. On Friday, MDC-A will hold peaceful demonstrations and we request those infiltrators not to come. We just want to inform the President of Zimbabwe that the people of Zimbabwe have suffered and are saying enough is enough.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this Bill. This Bill is aimed at correcting the wrongs which are in the country so that we live peaceful lives in a peaceful Zimbabwe. Please, let us not forget that this country was turned into Zimbabwe because of the liberation struggle where the sons and daughters died and some were maimed. The war of liberation was aimed at bringing full independence in this country. As a result, just because we are independent people are now moving freely and holding their heads high.
Now that we lost so many freedom fighters and people, why should we continue going on the path which leads to more deaths through violence? In this case, we now have a new dispensation which has corrected some of the wrongs which have been happening in the past and that is why most of us are enjoying this freedom because the new dispensation has relaxed rules that were oppressing the people of Zimbabwe. The only problem we have in Zimbabwe is that we have these demonstrations which happen in this free country and the people who plan these demonstrations do not partake in them but instead send our children to go and demonstrate so that when violence erupts our children die. The conveners or organisers themselves do not take part.
Why should people die in a free Zimbabwe?
This Bill is a peaceful Bill which says whosoever wants to demonstrate is allowed to do so on condition that they inform the police so that they can maintain peace and order during that demonstration. It will also be known who organised that demonstration because at the moment because of their shallow minds, the youngsters are put in the frontline and they are the people who suffer. We are saying the people of Zimbabwe are now mature and knowledgeable. They know the procedure of airing our grievances and that is why we have the National Assembly and Senate. The people in these Houses were elected by the people to represent them. They were elected so that they protect these youngsters and make sure they do not take part in unnecessary demonstrations where they may die.
We are representing people who elected us into Parliament. We also need to solve their problems. We do not want to spill more blood because many people died for the freedom of our country. I participated in the liberation struggle and I know that blood is precious. Why should we spill innocent blood? Let us protect the people of Zimbabwe. I am very grateful for what was done by the Committee led by Hon. Dr.
Parirenyatwa seeking people’s views on this motion. The Constitution was not constructed by a few individuals but it was a body or the people of Zimbabwe who crafted this Constitution. Everybody was involved and as a result, this is a people’s Constitution because the people in the grassroots had an input. In the same manner, with regards to this Bill, you again went around asking people about what they want regarding this law on demonstrations.
My motto is - let us carry forward the people’s views, likes and progress because when you do that it shows we are mature. If you just say I am Hon. Sen. Tongogara of ZANU PF and somebody says I belong to MDC, let us leave partisan politics when talking about the development of Zimbabwe. If we do not involve ourselves in partisan politics there is going to be progress and we will protect people’s lives. There is going to be development for the people of Zimbabwe and there is going to be peace and tranquility.
+HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU: I want to thank the Minister for bringing the Bill into this House. The Chairperson of the Committee went round the country concerning the Constitution of Zimbabwe. This Bill is not a ZANU PF or MDC Bill but it is a Bill for the country that has its independence. This is a Bill that encompasses every citizen of Zimbabwe. As citizens of Bulawayo, we witness a very painful demonstration, so people should not talk as if they do not know. So many people lost the lives of their children and their property was destroyed. It is a deserted area and we do not have stores.
If the convener of the demonstration knows that the demostration that is being requested is proper, I doubt if there is anything wrong with that. Why is the convener not comfortable with revealing his or her name? If you see someone doing that, it means there is nothing good behind the demonstration. We will not agree that people do as they wish in this country. We lost so many lives in Zambezi and Chimoio and those are the same people who fought for us to get the freedom that we have.
As Members, we still want to behave the way we want. The Government has a President in each Government and he is the leader and he has the right whether you like it or not. He has the right to deploy soldiers whenever there is anarchy. He cannot just deploy soldiers when everything is fine. He cannot just send soldiers when nothing would have gone wrong in the country but if you destroy people’s houses and their businesses, you will get what you deserve.
You reap what you sow.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Madam
President. May I begin by thanking the Minister for his opening statement which is that this Parliament must ensure peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe. That is what is in the Constitution. The Constitution does not say that the Parliament must ensure the repression of the Zimbabwean people. It says we must ensure peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe.
Madam President, there is no question that the colonial Law and Order Maintenance Act was a draconian piece of legislation. It oppressed our people, it oppressed our general people and the freedom fighters and it is a law that we want to forget. There is no question that the Public Order and Security Act is one of the most hated pieces of legislation in Zimbabwe’s history. That is why the Minister in his wisdom has sought to repeal it. If it was a good law, my friend the Minister would not have repealed it because it will be good law. It limited the fundamental rights and freedoms of the Zimbabwean people including the freedoms of association and assembly. When the “new” dispensation, when it came in November promised three among other things. 1) to democratise Zimbabwe; 2) to align the laws of Zimbabwe to the Constitution of Zimbabwe; and 3) to repeal unjust and obnoxious laws including POSA and AIPPA. I am sure that I speak of everyone in this House, that in the treatment of our people we must never go below how Smith treated them. We must never go below how Verfoort in South Africa, Vorword, Voster Hoffman and Botha in South Africa treated the South African people.
Madam President, the fact that a few criminals committed despicable acts does not justify the removal of democratic rights of our own people. Why do we punish the majority for the despicable act of the minority – it is unfair and unjust. I think I speak the truth when I say, when those people who if I was old enough, I was going to join them went to fight. Among other things, they fought for the land, they fought for justice and they fought for democracy – let us never forget that. They fought for the right of the Zimbabwean person to stand up and tell his Government in a peaceful manner that he does not approve what the Government is doing. That is the essence of the demonstration.
I come to whether this MOPO Bill answers to what I have said above. The POSA that it seeks to repeal had 23 sections and this MOPO Bill has 23 sections. I know that my friend Minister Ziyambi will say 24 but Section 24 simply says we repeal POSA, so we do not count that. So, it has 23 sections in POSA, 23 sections in MOPO and of the 23 sections from POSA, 20 are duplicated word for word in MOPO. So, it is not true that this is a new law; it is not true that it repeals POSA because 20 out of 23 of this Bill is POSA. Hon. Shoko has made a very important point that he may not have made well and this important point is that very fundamental parts of this Bill borrow heavily from South African legislation and the South African legislation in question is called the Regulation of Public Gatherings Act. 205 of 1993 and I want this House to remember that South Africa got its independence in 1994. So this piece of legislation is an apartheid piece of legislation. We duplicated it word for word for example; Section 2 of the apartheid regulation is Section 5 of MOPO. Section 4 is Section 8, Section 6 is Section 11, Section 7 is Section 10, and Section 9 is Section 13. The sections were then scattered around so that per chance, we may not identify but through research, we have identified.
Madam President, let me go quickly to the issue of the ban of the weapons. I am sure that the Hon. Minister would appreciate that some of the so called weapons are in fact tools of trade and being tools of trade, what this law says is that the mere possession of those weapons after the ban is a criminal offence. It does not say without just cause and it is unfair because we are affecting the livelihood of our people but this is not my main problem. My main problem becomes then how to communicate this ban – first through the newspapers, through the police but importantly, a new innovation is through traditional leaders. I want you to understand that this ban is being done by a regulatory authority which is a police officer at district level – a district where the chief is the leader there. He is being sent to communicate the decision of the police. He is being converted into the messenger of the police. This is debasing on our traditional leaders who oversee everybody and those people who are unhappy must go there and complain. What if we wanted the traditional leaders to have a say here, we would have said anybody aggrieved by anything would go to the traditional leaders. How do I go to a messenger of a person who is in charge of a district which is smaller than his chiefdom – that is debasing our traditional leaders?
Madam President, on the conveners, what this law says is that once you are the convener, the convener is the person who writes the letter to the police. Once you are the convener, you are criminally and civilly liable. I want to take an example of ZANU PF as a party; they want to plan a demonstration about sanctions or whatever they do not like. They will sit in their politburo. In that politburo, they will never make their
President, the head of that party to be a convener – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.] – They will look for a junior officer, either a Secretary
General or P.C and so on to go and communicate the party’s decision. What this bad law is saying is that, that junior officer is personally liable. Why are we sacrificing the weak and the less powerful? What this law is saying is that ZANU PF is innocent and it will not be visited with criminal or civil liability but the convener will be visited.
What that effectively does is that nobody wants to be a convener but because in the political parties we want to retain our positions, we are too weak and so on, then we will write the letters anyway. What this law says is that we will be punished on behalf of the organisation and that is unjust. It completely indemnifies the organisation and yet our law says; an organisation can be prosecuted. It also says an organisation can be ordered to pay damages but here we are persecuting the weak.
The police is given the power – I am rounding up Madam
President – The police is given the power to interfere with a lawful demonstration. A person has notified about their intended demonstration, the police are satisfied that it will be peaceful, but what this law says is that during the course of the demonstration, the police can interfere with the demonstration. It can change the route of the demonstration and can hold the demonstration altogether and that is unfair. That is giving the police too much power.
Demonstration within the vicinity of Parliament and the courts; our people must express displeasure on any institution, including Parliament – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – if they are unhappy with
Parliament. What this law is saying is that within a certain distance you cannot reach there, you cannot demonstrate in Parliament; let us say a hundred metres, you cannot demonstrate. What if the Parliament itself is the subject matter of the displeasure? What if the courts are the subject matter of the displeasure? Hon. Minister, I would suggest that what this law would have said is; “no demonstration within Parliament or within the court but outside Parliament or the courts, that is the essence of demonstrations.” I have heard Madam President, a lot of my colleagues in the Senate here saying that the army must be allowed to intervene – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am sorry Madam
President, I was distracted and I was trying to catch your attention to the offenders.
Thank you Madam President. I have heard about the argument of the deployment of the army; there are three arguments against that. Even the law that we are copying, the apartheid law did not deploy the army, as bad as Botha and Hoffmeyer and Vorster were, they did not deploy the army to deal with demonstrations, it was the exclusive preserve of the police. After all, we have relevant police units.
The second argument is that the army is not trained in law enforcement; it is trained in something else. So, we are asking people who are not trained in that issue to deal with it, which is wrong. Thirdly, it is the history of our army in dealing with demonstrations. First
August, the army dealt with demonstrations, we had six bodies; 14 to 16 January, the army dealt with demonstrations and we had 22 bodies that were accounted for. We have 28 bodies in two demonstrations. In South Africa, between 2001 and 2004, only four people died in demonstrations but in Zimbabwe, 28 people died in two demonstrations
Madam President, I want to deal with the sad incidents that Hon. Sen. Hungwe and others were talking about. I regret the ordeal that those people went through, but it is on record that of the past demonstrations, two demonstrations were violent, but it is 2 out of what? It is 2 out of 18 demonstrations that were violent. Why are we forgetting the 16 peaceful demonstrations?
Report by the President, which is my last point Madam President - the law says that after deploying the army, the President must report.
Unfortunately, it does not say in what format the President must use to report. Can he just write a letter or does he speak through his Minister or whatever? It does not tell us the format of the reporting. Is he going to come here and stand there and engage us in some form of question time? The law does not say and I doubt whether it is going to do that. Importantly, what are the consequences to the President if Parliament is not satisfied with his explanation. The law must say that; if Parliament finds that the President unlawfully, unfairly and inappropriately deploys the army, he must be impeached. So the law is inadequate, undemocratic and unfortunately, a carbon copy of POSA and borrows slavishly from the apartheid legislation. We ought to be ashamed of this law. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to contribute a little to this Bill brought into this august House. What touched me is Section 18 concerning soldiers. It is painful that soldiers are deployed because there is a demonstration. There are deaths that took place towards elections but we did not see soldiers deployed to villages to look for those involved. For example,
Mashonaland East, many people died and some were thrown into
Wenimbi…
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order Hon. Sen.
Chifamba. I want to remind all Hon. Members to desist from repeating the same issues in our debates. We should debate on other facts and leave out those which have been debated because they are already noted and the Hon. Minister will respond to that. We want to caution and stop that habit because if that continues we will end up asking some to sit down because they do not have new facts. I just wanted to remind everybody in this august House.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President, I speak
about it because it is so touching. So, to set it off, I have to talk about it because if I suppress it…
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We are in Parliament
Hon. Senator.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Yes, Madam President, I hear you. However, the issue of killings during demonstrations touches me. This law is coming but it is good for others whilst bad to others. This law can be likened to distributing food where someone chooses chicken whilst someone refuses. There are provisions in the law which are bad and infringes on the Zimbabwean citizen. All Zimbabweans are supposed to be free. I remember that there was a law on passports which then touched on children. Remember, what is good for the goose should be good for the gander as well, but we should be very careful because when the soldiers are now firing they do not choose. When you find that your child will be among those who have been killed, then you will know that this is painful. The soldiers should be in the bush there. When there is war in other countries, in Zimbabwe that is when we should see soldiers. Soldiers are not good friends. If you see them passing by you will know that you are not used to them, but a policeman can be a friend because their training is different. They were trained to kill, so are we saying that soldiers should come and kill the children of Zimbabwe who are demonstrating peacefully?
We should look at why people want to demonstrate. There is something wrong. There is something that has caused these children to go out and demonstrate in the streets. Prices are going up each and every day, salaries are not going up and now children do not know the taste of bread. They are saying to their father, this is how the things are in the country but then the father now brings soldiers to quell the children. This is likened to a polygamous marriage. It is good for someone who is coming into a polygamous marriage. You forget that tomorrow it will be you who will be in that position as well.
We should come up with laws that make everyone free in Zimbabwe. Today we are ruling but tomorrow you will be in the opposition. This is not new. When you will now be the opposition you will feel the pinch because this law will be in for a long time and opposition will be in power, then you will feel the pinch.
We should come up with laws for the future generations so that people are free to say whatever they want. If you cannot say it in your own country, what more if you are outside your own country? You cannot say anything negative. How can my voice be heard when I speak? If I do not speak no one will know what I want. So, we are saying what we want and you are telling us to keep quite. When a child cries the father does not respond by beating the child but you find out why the child is crying.
Why are soldiers in the streets when the father is there who should speak to the children? Whom should we talk to? For some it is very good, but for others it is very bad. Thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to debate on this Bill which is very welcome and has been brought by the Minister. This Bill Madam President, is very good. If we look at it properly, it does not select a certain party but it is for everyone. There is one speaker who said that tomorrow the ruling party will thus become opposition. Let us look for things which can protect our people.
Let me say that forewarned is foretold. Some demonstrations which have been talked about here were very proper but now they turned into violence and we declared war. Like what happened on that demonstration, a lot of shops were destroyed – [HON. SENATORS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can we have order
Hon. Senators.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: We are saying the Bill you brought here Minister, is very good. We were accusing opposition members that they were the people who were destroying property but they refused. This Bill has protected them when they are doing their demonstrations.
Those who misbehave can be handled by this law, like they said there were bad people who came into the demonstration. Let me remind you that this country has the President who is the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces. This President must be recognised as he is the President of Zimbabwe. There are some people who do not want to recognise the President but you go in front of him and swear an oath before him to become a Member of Parliament. We are part of Government. Even some people who see us on television talking and fighting over this Bill do not understand what you want.
Minister, you prepared a very nice Bill that even people are agreeable to it. Hon. Mwonzora must not forget that he was part of COPAC when we were crafting the laws of the country. This is the law we were creating. It is just a small amendment. This is the law of the country which we must follow. The President is not supposed to ask
Parliament when things are bad. He has no obligation to ask Parliament. Let us say we are on holiday, the President has the power to call the soldiers to deal with any situation so that the soldiers bring peace in the country.
We support this Bill Madam President. This makes our country to be in a good position. We do not want people to loot other people’s wares when they are selling. convener who would have written a letter, let it be known that you are the one who wrote the letter. When things get bad you have to be accountable. Madam President, we support this Bill and we are going to support the Bill that it be enacted into law.
With these few words, I thank you Madam President – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you very much Madam President
for giving me this opportunity to just add my voice. I want to thank the
Minister for bringing this Bill which actually breaks the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
The Constitution of Zimbabwe is the supreme law of the land.
This Constitution came from the people of Zimbabwe. A lot of our Hon.
Members have already debated and they have spoken about this Constitution. It is the supreme law and any other law that is not aligning to this Constitution is null and void.
Madam President, going through this Bill already, it actually breaks about five clauses of the Constitution meaning to say you might be many, you might pass this Bill but this Bill is going to court even if you force its passage because it is not aligned to the Constitution.
Mr. President, I heard Senators debating here and some of them were screaming ZIDERA. When I was researching, ZIDERA says that you must follow the Constitution of the land. You made the Constitution yourself, so follow that Constitution because it is from the people. Here right now, you can scream and say other people are bringing sanctions, this Bill is bringing sanctions to Zimbabwe. It is breaking the supreme law of the land which is the Constitution. Mr. President, I am in the Peace and Security Committee. I heard my Chairman saying that we went around the country and this Bill was agreeable - it is really unfortunate because this Bill was not agreed to. I was in the southern region and I was amazed by one Hon. Member who comes from Matabeleland actually saying Matabeleland agreed to this Bill. There is no way I can allow this I swear here in Parliament that I am going to abide by the Constitution and I am always going to be on the side of the people.
In Matabeleland, we do not have national identity documents. First give us identity documents then you can bring your law. Has the Government made arrangements to actually go to Matabeleland and give our people identity documents? No, but you are bringing this law which is going to arrest somebody who does not have an identity document when you know that in Matabeleland our people do not have identity documents until now.
Mr. President, when we were going around the country, our people refused to the fact that soldiers or police shoot anyone at will. In fact our people actually suggested that when the situation arises - other countries actually use rubber bullets, so why do you want to kill people? Why must we lose our people, black against black and we want to kill each other - ask yourselves why. Mr. President Sir, the anarchy – [AN. HON. SENATOR: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Senator, I do not want to answer, I want to address.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Address the
Chair, ignore them.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Mr. President, please protect me. The
anarchy that is happening in this country is corruption. Corruption is the anarchy in this country; the stealing, the thieving of just one person, I will give an example. Just one Minister has a house in United Kingdom, a house in America, a house in South Africa, a house in Borrowdale
Brooke. Can you imagine if we had to actually search each and every Minister, then our country will be a happy country? This is what causes anarchy. Mr. President Sir, why do Zimbabweans – [HON. SEN.
CHIMBUDZI: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order. Hon.
Senators, you are honourable, so behave honorably.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President Sir, there is a
Shona saying that says, ‘mwana asingacheme anofira mumbereko’, Mr. President Sir, ever since we became independent in this country, how many people have been arrested for corruption? All we see are lists and lists of people that are corrupt but they are never arrested - maybe one or two only and nothing else. Who do we cry to? The people of
Zimbabwe are crying out - no jobs. We were recently debating a motion on pensioners, they are not getting anything but you can see how much money was stolen, who do we cry to? The only way we can cry to the Government is through demonstrations – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – When we talk about demonstrations Hon. Senators, we are not talking about killing people, we are not talking about breaking homes, we are not talking about anything, we are talking about having our time to demonstrate, talking about issues that worry us.
There is no flour, bread, et cetera. Bakeries cannot even make bread and then you make little bakeries and say now women are baking bread, is that fair? Mr. President, there are a lot of issues that Zimbabwean people have to highlight. There are lot of issues that we have to highlight. Our Zimbabwean people are crying out for jobs, our Zimbabwean people are crying out for our livelihoods and we have to be given an opportunity to demonstrate. This Bill is making it impossible even for somebody to actually apply to demonstrate. You actually train people to actually come and infiltrate people who are demonstrating peacefully and they destroy homes and then it is assumed that it is those people demonstrating. When we cry we want the Government to answer, we do not want it to answer with bullets Mr. President.
This Bill is unconstitutional Hon. Senators. Clause 5 deals with appointment of conveners like I said. Surely, submitting of lists of organs and structures of the political party - I want to have a meeting with my district which has 50 people; I must write all the names and give to the police for what, why? So that they can be intimidated! We have cases from the time the MDC gave notice, we already have people that have been beaten because the police know their addresses. Are our people meant to feel comfortable when they give the addresses to the police?
Mr. President, the Constitution empowers citizens. Section 58 of the Constitution empowers citizens to freely gather. So if I then write out a list, are you really giving or you are taking away that right? You are taking that right. Section 60 of the Constitution which provides among other things the right to express one’s thought and section 61 which provides for freedom of expression which includes the right to seek, receive and communicate ideas and other information, a process of public meeting often involves such communication ideas. Shockingly, even the apartheid like what Hon. Sen. Mwonzora was saying did not have such bad laws and these were white people. So, we are having all these bad laws. It is black against black right now and you know like the Hon. Senators said, it is good because you are the ruling party at this moment in time and you can make sure that the opposition is stifled but it is one day cross, Mugabe never knew. He thought he was going to die akagara pa seat but where is he today?
Mr. President Sir, some of the issues have been covered but there are issues that really touchéd me the most is that I am a Ndebele from Midlands. I come from Zhombe. When I went around, what really pains me is that our people do not have identity cards (IDs). Our people are not educated. They never had an opportunity to go to school. Government should look at this and remove this thing. It really has to be removed. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like
to remind Hon. Senators to avoid as much as possible to repeat issues which have already been raised – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] - Are you chairing this House now? I am chairing this House and I am advising you to avoid repeating. The Minister is taking down the issues you are raising and he is going to respond. We will do ourselves a dis-service if we continue repeating the same thing over and over again.
*HON. SEN. MBOWA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me the opportunity to debate. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing in this Bill and I strongly support it.
The issue at stake here is that as children of Zimbabwe, we should look at this law on a non-partisan basis but as Zimbabweans, any political party can come up with demonstrations as long as they think that their rights are being oppressed. I heard one of the Hon. Sen. saying that we have engaged into 16 demonstrations. That is what we want and that is why we are supporting this Bill. We want to look at the demonstrations and fish out the bad ones so that when we are doing our demonstrations, we vet each other.
For example if the as Methodist Church wants to demonstrate against our pastor, we plan and put rules and regulations in place. We will also look for people who will oversee how our demonstration is going on. As long as we are looking at peace building, there is nothing bad but if we are looking at bad demonstrations, it is wrong. If demonstrations come out as they are intended to then there is no problem.
This is a good Bill and it protects everyone even the opposition. Even the infiltration that they are talking about, it means that not everyone will go in. The bad apples will not find a chance. They will vet each other. If they have a vision, there is no point in coming up with bad demonstrations. So I am supporting peaceful demonstrations as said by the Minister.
We are the ones who invite the army. If demonstrations go well, no army will be involved. There is no room for the army to come in. Our police are trained to use minimum force. If it becomes too much for them and they are overwhelmed and things go out of hand, that is when the President comes in because he would like to bring in peace and order. If he does not stop that, it means a lot of people will die and a lot of property will be destroyed. It is unfortunate that live ammunition will be used but I think the President has looked into that so that we do not reach that level.
On the issue of IDs – I come from the rural areas. The chiefs and headmen have a good plan. If we have orphans, the village heads and councillors will write letters so that all orphans get IDs. I think as legislators, we should strengthen this kind of structure so that all the children will have identification.
I came across a circulation which was written by Trump. It said that if you kill a policeman, you should also be killed. Here is a leader who is trying to say if you violate Government machinery, you should also get the same treatment. Each and every country has its own laws to protect people so that they do not go out of hand. Even the Lord in heaven is the Lord of war – a war of love and peace. He brings war so that we get peace and not bringing war so that people will be at logger heads. When law is coming to bring peace, it will look like it is bad law but as we go on, the truth will be in the open.
When we were going to school, we were beaten and we thought our parents were infringing our rights but now I can see that if I had not been beaten, I would not be where I am today. Our parents would spank you so that you will be in line.
This law aims for peace in our society and to both sides of the House. We do not want demonstrations that will end up in violence – even on this side of the House, we all want peace. Those who want peace should not keep on clamouring for violence. They should just do their demonstrations in peace. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAI: Thank you Mr. President. I would also want to add my voice to the Bill which has been brought by the Minister. To me, it is a Friday Bill. It is targeting the Friday demonstration. We should be able to craft laws looking into the future and not looking at a person or an event.
I usually tell the truth; to me this Bill is very bad. Because we are the children of Zimbabwe, you have brought it so that we debate it and give our opinion. This Bill is very bad Minister. I do not usually speak in English when I am debating because I represent a constituency which wants to understand what I will be talking about. It does not mean that I cannot speak in English. Not speaking in English does not mean that I cannot speak English. English is just a language and it can not be used to measure intelligence. I would like the Minister to look into the Bill after our debates - the truth which will concern you about this Bill and the other things which you will throw away. What I wanted to say has already been said by others before that it is a plagiary from apartheid. These were whites who were oppressing black people but you, of which colour are you? You are whites in black man’s skin.
Mr. President, it is so sad that in this country we want to talk about a lot of things when looking at issues like this Bill, we start to hear about the liberation struggle and the people who died. It is true that the war was fought, everyone liked this war and we supported the liberation struggle because we liked it. We do not want you to confuse our minds by talking about dead people because the people who died came from all tribes. Everyone was affected by the liberation war struggle, now it is being discussed by people because we want to craft a law. Let us say what is good about this law and what is bad about it. When I grew up, my father was a policeman. If bread was finished we would tell our mother that there is no flour to bake bread for us to eat before we go to school. Our mother would go and tell our father and I never saw my mother being beaten for that. In fact, the father would come to us the children that we do not fight our mother. He would say he was aware of the situation and that when he goes back to Harare he would send the food stuff through Chawasarira coaches.
What we are doing shows a disorganised house; it shows oppression of highest order which is not expected in this day and age. Are there no other better things to do? The country has people who are hungry, jobless people, poverty, so how is this Bill going to solve all these problems? Will the Bill help us as a nation that there is no hunger?
These are the issues we were supposed to be discussing as the Senate and the President calling us to discuss on way forward as a nation in terms of solving these problems.
Mr. President, I would like to focus on the issue of the convener. No one refused that the name of the convener should be known but for one to write down the names of 800 people, it is impossible. How can I know of everyone who would have come to the streets? – How am I supposed to know all those people and their addresses?
Mr. President, let us not be possessed by the spirit of Smith because we have never known peace during the Smith regime. Our mothers and fathers were always on the run. If we look at what you have brought, we end up seeing Smith as a better person when in fact we do not want to think that way. It is very bad for me to talk about my former oppressor. If you look closely in the rural areas most of the men move around with their tools like the axes, mbezo, etcetera for their relish. Now, if it is an offence to move around with an axe which I use to get my relish and I am not also allowed to explain why I am carrying
that axe then it is a big challenge to our communities. Are you going make people in the rural areas to be aware of these bad laws that you are crafting? This law is a very bad one and it is not even good for you.
The law must make everyone happy.
When we crafted the Constitution, we did not know that you were going to ambush us with this Hendricks kind of law. We wrote a Constitution which was very good, which we know is our livelihood and the backbone of the lives of our people. However, if you are now bringing black patches on white cloths, if this patch was even nice it was going to be better but it has holes. We know that you may pretend to like this Bill very much but deep down you know what is good and what
is bad.
This is the truth which you can refuse here but when you go home with that child you do not agree with about his life and about what I am doing when I am in Parliament. Even the Hon. Minister agrees with me that his own children at times do not agree with him that some of them go to Methodist church whilst he goes to Zaoga – that is a right. Have you ever beaten that child for disagreeing with you, he will refer you to the Constitution and shows you Section 60 which states that he has freedom of assembly and to share ideas with whomever he wants. Because you do not like Zaoga, you will lock Zaoga and banish him from home; this is exactly what you are doing to us as a nation. This is what you doing to the children of Zimbabwe. You might think that you are doing this against the opposition but this matter concerns the whole nation. Where are you? Children of Zimbabwe who do not want this law are many. It is the children of Zimbabwe and let us stop saying, opposition. This is Friday Bill targeting the children of Zimbabwe who have grievances that they want to give to their President. Before he brings soldiers, let the President address us about the issues to do with the sky rocketing prices and about fuel that is not available. You will not see anyone coming out of his home if the service station is open 24 hours. No one comes out of his home if there is bread, if he is able to buy relish for children to eat sadza. Mr. President, this is very painful and we ask, who is breaking other people’s homes?
Let me go to the issue of people who break people’s homes. There are people who destroy homes in the afternoon. Those are better because we see them. What about those who follow people at night, breaking people’s homes? What are we doing with them? Is there night demonstration? What will you be looking for in people’s homes during the night? We expect the Government if the people of Zimbabwe are demonstrating to put drones in the streets to capture people who will be destroying property and beating others, not to come here to just tell us that you want this law to pass. I want it to be put on record today; I do not support the Bill. For sure, I do not support something draconian.
Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Wunganayi. I just want to remind you again all senators and I will read the relevant Standing Order here, “that the Chair may direct Section 104. The Chair may direct a senator to discontinue his or her speech and resume his or her seat after having called to order such a senator: a) for persisting in irrelevant or tedious repetition of his or her own arguments of those used by other senators in debate.”
^^HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President. I have a request. To be able to express myself from the bottom of my heart, I want to speak in my language Mr. President. I thank you Mr. President and I thank the Minister who brought this Bill that there be peace in the country of Zimbabwe. For us who are far away in the rural areas, we are at the border. We thank you very much for bringing this Bill Minister. Mr. President, we want to support this Bill on that there is peace and that we walk freely. We want to live peacefully. We do not want a situation where if you want to go to a certain place, your heart beats. We are thankful and supporting our President that if there is something wrong we have peace in this country.
The President has to deploy soldiers to bring peace. The President has not refused people the right to demonstrate. If we are in this House, we represent everyone; the rich, the poor and all different kinds of people. We represent the people of Zimbabwe. If we say we are adopting something from South Africa, let us not involve other people.
Let us come out with our own law and stay peaceful as the people of
Zimbabwe. We do not want useless things. We are grown up people. We want to dispute here and we want peace in this country. Let peace be with us. Even God himself says he is the God of war. If you do well nothing bad will happen to you. Be good children so that the country which you have been given by your forefathers will be peaceful. This is something we support. You did very well Minister. We thank you very much. This Bill must pass today.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me an opportunity to air my views on this particular Bill that has been brought to the House by the Minister. The fact that I might touch on a point that has already been mentioned is not necessarily a repetition. It could be another angle but of the same point. It is important that I put my point in the way I want it understood, not necessarily as Hon. Sen. Timveos or Hon. Sen. Shoko has put it. I want to put it in my own words...
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order. I have the final discretion to make a ruling on what is happening.
You may continue.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, I want to take us back to the 17th of November 2017. On that day, the people of Zimbabwe came out en mass to demonstrate. There was no application made to any police. There was no notice, agenda or names and addresses given to anyone; it was spontaneous. This will never and can never be the last time that spontaneity happens in Zimbabwe. If it does happen and it seems to suit the agenda of a certain political party, are we going to get arrests? It is not addressed by this Bill. That is my first point.
The second point, when everything is okay in the country it is practically impossible to get masses of people coming out to demonstrate because they will not be motivate to come out. There is nothing that urges them to do that. They will only do it if they feel it from within their hearts that there is a cause that they associate with. If a large number of people associate with that point, there is no way a convenor can be able to identify or be responsible for every person who is going to identify with that cause, neither can a convener be responsible for people that are going to infiltrate in order to frustrate that particular demonstration. I would have very much respected this Bill if it insisted that as much as possible the convener must make sure there are enough marshals to see to it that there is peace and order and to work very closely with the police in the event that there is disorder, then I would have seen it as a neutral Bill which is meant to be for the good of the people of Zimbabwe. This Bill is targeting some people and this is what is makes is unacceptable.
I want to be frank with you Mr. President, that I am one of the very few people who were very disappointed with the 17 November - while others were on the streets celebrating, I stayed at home. The reason I stayed at home is because I thought that this New Dispensation was going to address all the things that were wrong with this country which would make my party irrelevant. That was my real fear. I am so glad that my fears were unfounded. The things that are happening today are not better than what was happening before. In fact, this Bill is tighter than POSA in every sense of the word.
I was so afraid that the President would go round the world and would promise all those things that we say we will do if we get into power and when he comes back all those things will actually happen and then my party becomes irrelevant. But Mr. President, I am so glad to see that this Bill ensures that ZIDERA stays in place. It is going to make sure that nothing changes. So, who is really bringing sanctions to Zimbabwe? Who is bringing hardships to the people of Zimbabwe? It is the people who refuse to change. People who refuse to work within the Constitution.
At the beginning of this year fuel was selling at RTGS$1.50, today it is RTGS$9.47. Our salaries, and I am not talking about just civil servants but even in the private sector have not changed. If there is no way of addressing Government that something is wrong without fear of imprisonment and criminal liability, how are we going to do this? We have a right to bring the Government to account. If we are complicit by keeping quiet, by pretending that everything is okay, we are equally guilty. In fact, we are worse because we tell the people when we go out there that, ‘no, it is not us, it is just the Government - it is not true’. The only way that people will know that we as Senate are correct across the aisle are Senators is by actually saying what is good when it is good and bad when it is bad.
I can understand why people would like to protect themselves with laws like this but I can assure you Mr. President, nothing will defeat an idea whose time has come. We can carry on debating and we can say how good this is but at the end of the day we all know that this Bill is primed by fear – fear of one’s own subjects. The easiest thing Mr. President, is to find out who the criminals are. The criminals can be identified in a way that will make sure demonstrations can happen peacefully in this country with the conveners and the police working together, making sure that all the roadblocks have been put so that no one can commit a crime. Threatening people with live bullets from a Government that calls itself a democratic Government is a shame Mr. President.
We can keep on talking and I think we are going to go clause by clause and when we get to that stage we will actually point out what is undemocratic about this particular Bill. If we find that because of our numbers we are defeated and the Bill goes through, that Bill will be challenged in the courts and we shall challenge it. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Can I remind
Hon. Senators again for us to stick to the issue of MOPO and avoid drifting to other subjects. We are discussing MOPO. We have to maintain order in the House.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion. In my own view, I think this is a very good Bill. I think it is God’s intervention because we are faced with Sodom and Gomorrah. People who prayed for peace in
Zimbabwe, is really a prayer answered. Thank you Hon Minister.
From my understanding, demonstrations are allowed but the Bill seeks that all the demonstrations should be done in a peaceful way. We realise that in most of the rural areas people are looking up to us to hear what is it that we are going to say when we are contributing towards this Bill. We cannot be focusing on killing innocent lives and also destroying their property. This Bill is just coming to bring peace into the nation. There is no nation without laws. I think when the Minister was crafting this Bill they asked for wisdom like Solomon in the Bible.
We are not coming here to represent our parties but we are representing our constituencies. As Members representing our parties, we are not as many as people in our constituencies. We have noticed that policemen are killed in the line of duty which is a very bad practice. This Bill is coming to stop such heinous acts. For example in Bulawayo, the city is now a deserted area. When people hear that there is a demonstration that is upcoming they try by all means to hide their families somewhere else. There is nothing that we should be afraid of if we know that what we are going to be doing is going to be okay. Why should the convener have fear if the Bill says he or she should be responsible for whatever that is going to happen.
A party or church cannot instruct people to cause violence but it is only one person who can do that. From where we are coming from especially in Matabeleland, people were hurt so much especially from these demonstrations for example in Bulawayo. You will realise that we do not even have protection because policemen are also killed.
We have to acknowledge that the soldiers bring peace in the nation. It is not an amazing thing for soldiers to be deployed. The Bill does not state that soldiers should kill people but they should maintain peace. It is fine for the Bill to state that the President can deploy soldiers should need arise. We need to demonstrate in peace.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: On a point of order Mr. President
Sir, you have made a ruling and referred us succinctly, to the relevant rule against repetition. What the Hon. Member is doing is exactly what you prohibited.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order
you may take your seat. Unfortunately, I am impaired and have not been following on what she was saying … - [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – But what you are saying is very relevant. Hon. Senator, do not engage in tedious repetition.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I did not repeat anything Mr. President. It is important that we view this Bill positively. We support it in every turn of the way so that the international world will also realize that we want peace and harmony to prevail in our country with just laws. We should not be seen to be emulating laws from other countries lest our country becomes Sodom and Gomorah because then God will not intervene. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order, is there anything that you want to say that has not been said? –
[HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – Because …
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President Sir, maybe to guide the members as there maybe others with new things.
I think that the Hon. Members, when I respectfully read the Second Reading speech, missed out on some of the issues and some of the debate on national identification cards, fuel and so forth – it is not in the Bill, even about conveners.
We are going on a tangent debating on things that are totally outside the Bill. So with the indulgence of Hon. Members because we are also going to go clause by clause – we will still be able to raise those issues at the Committee Stage. If I can be indulged to respond now and then as we go clause by clause because I notice that we are labouring under the impression that there are certain issues that are in the Bill which are not in the Bill. So if the Hon. Members can indulge me because we will still be able to engage in the same debate going clause by clause. I so submit Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Please take
your seats. I think that the Hon. Minister has made a very progressive proposal so that he gives his response and then when you are in Committee you can go clause by clause and raise the issues that you are talking about. Do you agree? Are there any objections? There is no objection; I call upon the Hon. Minister.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President, I want to thank the Hon. Members for the indulgence and want to thank everyone who debated – some repeating, others bringing in new ideas; we acknowledge everything and respect the views that were raised.
I want to start Hon. President by indicating that Hon. Members have referred in the Bill on issues to do with the defence forces. Hon.
Sen. Ncube asked, “why should the defence forces assist the police?” Hon. Sen. Mwonzora weighed in as well as other Hon. Senators. Mr.
President Sir, this is a constitutional alignment provision. I want to draw the Hon. Senators here present and some of them were in COPAC. They came up with Section 213 of the Constitution which clearly stipulated under which circumstances the President is allowed to deploy armed forces. I am surprised, that Hon. Senators argue in favour of alignment of laws as one of the objectives of the Second Republic. On the same vein, they say do not align the laws. So I did not understand what they were saying. Please read the provisions that were put in the Bill, it clearly indicates that once the defence forces have been called upon to assist the police, they will be under the command of the police – that is what the Bill says. It does not say that when they come out of the barracks, they should bring live ammunition. The Bill does not say so.
It says, ‘Once the Commissioner General requests for the assistance of the police by the defence forces, the following is what must happen’, which can happen - we may have demonstrations where the police officers are outnumbered and you may need to call in the other members of the security sector to assist. It clearly states that, ‘when the
Commissioner writes to the relevant Minister’ which is the Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage who then consults the President. The President agrees and the defence forces will be deployed but they will operate as if they were police officers under the command of the police – that is what the Bill says. This is in fulfillment of the constitutional requirement which states that defence forces may be deployed to defend public order. So if we talk about constitutional alignment – this is one of the provisions that we have to deal with in the Bill.
Mr. President, I also took note of the history lessons that we learnt - distorted as they may be. I listened attentively about the history of LOMA, POSA and the Bill that we have. I heard that the Bill that we have was plagiarised from an apartheid era law. Mr. President, I just want to make a correction.
In 1993, there was no apartheid in South Africa – it was in a transitional stage. In 1993, they had an interim Constitution and were gravitating towards full independence of South Africa. So when this Act was enacted in 1993, it was during the interim transition period and it is not very correct what the Hon. Senators said. I want them to go and check the history books and read very well. Be that as it may, not all laws that were used during the colonial era have been repealed – if you have a good law then why repeal it? So that is neither here nor there.
I also want to say Mr. President, this Constitution which is a product of some of the people who are here and were chairing – has been hailed as one of the most progressive pieces of legislation. There is a lot of plagiarism in the Constitution, Mr. President, and if you read the South African 1996 Constitution you will see what I mean. A lot of it was borrowed from there by the very Hon. Senators who are clapping hands and saying that there was plagiarism. My point is, the need for maintenance of peace and order across the globe is the same. Where you can borrow lessons learnt on how to legislate. You do not shy away because you will be labeled to have borrowed from your neighbour – [HON. SENETORS: Hear, hear.] - We will not shy away to get progressive pieces of legislation and incorporate in ours. Just as those that are hailing this Constitution, it is plagiarised more than this Bill that they are talking about. I submit that is not something that we should belabour ourselves with but should look at the actual issues.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Parirenyatwa for the support. Indeed, I read the report and most of the issues that were raised by the Committee on Defence and Security and the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security, we incorporated them. I must also say that when we debated this Bill in the Lower House, at no stage did we divide the House. I remember around 2am or so, we were now approving clauses by consensus and we accepted a lot of proposals that came from the members of the opposition. At the end of the session, the Hansard will confirm this. The esteemed Vice President of the opposition party thanked Hon. Dias, myself and everyone else for the spirit that we exhibited that particular night in debating and conceding in certain areas. So, I would not want to say that this Bill came to the Senate and we had at any time been called upon to divide the House. No, not at all. We were engaging each other clause by clause as we looked at it. That is what happened.
Again Hon. Shoko spoke about duplication and I have responded to that. He wanted to speak about the history lessons but again those that know appreciate that when we talk about our law, we say its origin is Roman Dutch law. So, this idea of thinking that we cannot have lessons learnt from somewhere when even the origins of our law is Roman Dutch law, we are not Romans neither are we Dutch but we are using it. I submit that we should not labour ourselves with those issues and trying to dramatise issues and nothing else.
I want to come to the issue of conveners Mr. President. It has been clearly misunderstood. A convener who notifies the police, engages them and is given clearance is not subjected to any civil liability. That is what the Bill is saying and I am actually surprised that Members have not had time to study the Bill so that they can appreciate what it is saying. If you go on to the clause that they were labouring under, it says; - “if a convener does not give notice or disregards” - it actually qualifies a convener who is liable. So the others are insulated and if you decide to have your demonstration and you do not want to inform the police, we will hold you liable for whatever happens or you disregard what you will have agreed to with the regulator, you will be held liable. So, this is what it says. It does not say any convener is liable and I submit that Hon. Members should actually take time to read the provisions of the Bill so that they appreciate how good it is. Again, I saw Hon. Members labouring over the issue of soldiers. That has been taken care of. I have responded. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mkhwebu for supporting the Bill.
I just want to say something again on identity documents. The Bill does not criminalise you for not carrying an I.D. In my Second Reading opening speech, I alluded to that but I believe Hon. Members were not listening and so they decided to go to town about issues of I.Ds and gukurahundi . The Bills says, if the regulator has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence, which is already there in our laws, if they suspect that you have committed an offence whether you have an I.D or not they can arrest you. So, that is already there in our laws and I think the issue of I.Ds has been dealt with. I am surprised that Hon.
Members continued to discuss that issue.
Hon. Sen. Hungwe clearly explained the issue of maintenance of peace and order. While we all have rights to demonstrate and do whatever we want to do, I want to thank her. Others also have their rights. So, the whole purpose of having this Bill is to ensure that while we enjoy our rights to demonstrate or to hold meetings, others who want to go about their business are allowed to do so. Not that I want to come to work but there are barricades in Samora Machel and tyres are being burnt, that is what we want to control. That is the reason why we need those who want to have demonstrations to go and inform the regulator in case there is another counter demonstration on that particular day that you want to hold yours. The regulator can say, ‘no, you wanted to go through Samora Machel, it is not possible because the Red Cross Society are also demonstrating through Samora Machel, can you change your direction’ and that should be allowed.
I also want to submit that from what I got it is alleged demonstrations are done against Government only. That is not correct. Demonstrations can be done against any employer and they can be violent. So, the right to demonstrate is not a right to demonstrate only against your Government. So, it is not correct to say that Government wants to protect itself. This is about maintenance of peace and order to ensure whoever wants to express their rights must have regards for the rights of others. This is not a right that is non derogatory. You have to have regard for rights of others when you are demonstrating. I think if you go to Section 86 of the Constitution, you can clearly find those rights that you cannot derogate against.
I also was pleasantly amused to hear that we duplicated 20 sections and in the same vein, it is alleged that it is the same POSA. I got lost because I did not know which one we duplicated, so I cannot comment
on that.
On the carrying of traditional weapons, if there is a real danger that the public safety will be compromised in any district, the police officer of that district should be empowered to ban weapons that can cause harm to innocent civilians. But we also put a rider to say that once you get that three months ban you cannot then extend it within that particular year unless you go to the Magistrates Court. Mr. President Sir, we have this provision of banning of dangerous weapons in the Criminal Code. So it is not something that is new that is coming into play. I also want Members to take note that we have people within certain areas who are killing each other using machetes and this provision is not targeted at politicians. You also need to appreciate that we have amakorokoza there; they use machetes on each other. So this is a necessary provision for the maintenance of peace and order in those communities – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
Again, I listened to my learned friend trying to appeal that we are using our chiefs to convene messages. That is not the correct reading, it says the traditional leaders and traditional leaders can mean village heads. The Hon. Member will also know that it is one of the means of communication that we use in rural areas. Also, this was a negotiated clause, it was not originally there. I submit that we agreed with Members from the other side that perhaps newspapers in rural areas, we also need to widen the channels of communication that certain weapons have been banned. We use masabhuku to communicate and I am actually surprised that we should not use masabhuku edu kucomunicater kuti aa! Kwaita makorokoza variku tema vanhu nemabhemba, saka mapurisa vabanner munharaunda ino, ukavonekwa wakatakura bhemba unozonzi urikuda kutema munhu, saka chimbomirai kubuda nemabhebha.
That is the essence of what the sabhuku would be saying and I submit that I do not see how offensive it is to the authority of the traditional leader. In any event, our police officers in rural areas work also very closely with masabhuku edu. This has been standard practice, so when we negotiated we accepted it. We thought it was a very progressive addition. I do not want to compare our country with another country. If you look at what the Hon. Members were saying – I believe it was just posturing and playing to the gallery; the apartheid regime and paramilitary forces that killed a lot of people. So to submit that they were not using the military, they were using the police when the end game was the same. I think it does not deserve a dignified answer – for lack of a better word Mr. President, the apartheid regime had done a lot of atrocities. I submit that they did more atrocities than even Ian Smith. So, I would not want to compare what they did with what we are trying to do.
Hon. Sen. Chifamba was merely repeating what her colleagues said. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chirongoma. I was at pains when I listened to Hon. Sen. Timveos; when she held the Constitution saying that this Bill is unconstitutional. She never even mentioned a single clause in the Bill that is unconstitutional. She submitted the carrying of identity cards and she was totally lost because that is totally not in the
Bill. I submit that the ID clause we removed it and it is not there –
[HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I am holding the Bill and it is there.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Do not
address the Minister, address the Chair. Minister, carry on.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: He is talking about me, so what must I do?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order,
Hon. Sen. Timveos, the Minister is responding to the issues which you all raised. He referred to Hon. Sen. Chirongoma and many other people but they did not stand up to say ndini ndiri kutaurwa. Minister, carry on.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President. When they were talking, I was even quiet when I noticed that some of the issues were not in the Bill – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much. I submit that I did not see anything that pertained to that which is unconstitutional and she never indicated anything that is in the Bill. I submit Mr. President, that the issue of soldiers, I have already clarified that it is an alignment issue. So, I do not know how unconstitutional the issue of deployment of soldiers become unconstitutional when the Constitution says the President is allowed. There is nowhere in the Bill where it says soldiers are deployed to kill people – [HON. SENATORS: They kill] – So I think we should be able to speak to the Bill not to our imaginations or emotions. I submit that what the Bill simply says is – [HON.
SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
Will you please behave orderly? I do not want to go a level higher than this. Minister, carry on.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President. I submit that I agree that we need to upgrade our anti-riot equipment and I submit that it is difficult for us in Government at the moment to procure that riot equipment because of sanctions. – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – Under the circumstances….
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
Minister, you may proceed.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I submit that once the sanctions are removed
and we are able to trade freely with anyone, that issue can be – I will not shy away from saying the truth – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
Hon. Sen. Timveos; Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, sit down! You may stand up at the appropriate time. The Minister is….
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: No! Mr. President Sir, he is not answering to what we said. He is actually imposing himself on us by lying to us when he is under oath. He even lied to say I said A, B, C, D when I did not say that. I actually had a paper where I quoted Clause
4…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Timveos, I am giving you the final warning. It is the final warning, I would not call you again. Minister, can you proceed?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. President. I indicated that we will go clause by clause. I do not want her to be very emotional when we get to the clauses she can as well show me what is unconstitutional about it and I submit that I did not lie. I submit that everything that I have said is correct.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: On a point of order. The Hon. Minister
there is saying exactly what you said we must not do and she has said it in a language that we understand. I would like you to reprimand her for the sake of fairness. Thank you Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Which
Minister? I did not hear what she said. What did she say?
HON. SEN. SHOKO: She said we are not going to accept any nonsense.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon.
Senators, I have already said you must behave very honourable in this House and if the Minister said it, I ask the Minister not to say such words.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My point of order is that we seek fairness and justice in this House. You seem to be very heavy handed towards this side of the team and very light on the other side. If the Minister has said she does not accept nonsense, she must stand up and publicly withdraw. Do not withdraw on her behalf.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Komichi, I said I did not hear it – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections] – I did not hear it.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. President, I submit that when I listened to the descending voices about the Bill, what I picked is that they have not read Section 86 of the Constitution. I submit that in the interest of democracy which they are very much passionate about talking about, democracy means that we have to have respect for the rights of all our citizens. The reason why in any country you find a Bill to ensure that there is maintenance of peace and order in whatever name they give, it is to ensure that competing rights are upheld. I submit that any
Government will not shy away from its responsibility of regulating and ensuring that there is peace and order in the country.
I listened attentively to Hon. Sen. Makone speaking about the spontaneous demonstrations of 17 November, 2017. I submit that there is no ban of spontaneous demonstrations in the Bill. It is not there, but what the Bill simply says is, ‘should that happen those that convened it should ensure that it is peaceful’. I also listened attentively and there was reference to Clause 5 on appointment of conveners and authorised officers in the case of processions and public demonstrations. There was reference to listing everyone who is demonstrating to say that, why should I list everyone. It is not there in the Bill. The Bill does not say you should go to the regulating authority with a list of everyone who will demonstrate. I submit that the Hon. Members should go to the Bill and check it again.
I believe that most of the issues that were being raised are issues that we discussed, negotiated, amended and we removed. They are not there, including the use of firearms. You will not find in this Bill where it says anything about the use of firearms. It is not there. I submit that Mr. President, most of the issues that were of concern to the Hon. Members are adequately addressed as what they were labouring under are issues that are not in the current Bill before Senate. I move that the Bill be read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave; forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H.B. 3A, 2019]
House in Committee.
Preamble put and agreed to.
Clauses 1 to 3 put and agreed to.
On Clause 4;
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: The clause empowers the regulating officer to ban the carrying of certain weapons for three months. This section is too broad and does not provide exceptions or exemptions. There is nothing which can stop the regulatory authority from further extending this period ad infinitum. This section imposes strict liability and it is all encompassing and does not allow someone a defence. For example, there are dangerous lions which have just escaped a game park and so, this section needs to be fixed.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: On Clause 4 (4), which says any
person who fails to comply with a prohibition order under Section 1
shall be guilty of offence. What it does is, it creates strict liability. I suggest that the section must read, ‘any person who without just cause’. For example, if you are not allowed to carry an axe. You are going to use the axe, but a necessity to use the axe arises or you are ignorant of the prohibition order. As it stand it is unjust because here it creates strict liability and it is unduly harsh. There may be circumstances where it is necessary for that person to carry what is considered a weapon.
Secondly, Mr. President, what does not seem to feature in the copy of the Bill, but I saw it on line from amendments in the Lower House and the Minister confirmed it is the use of traditional leaders to disseminate a prohibition notice. A traditional leader is not only a village head or a headman and so on. A traditional leader under the
Traditional Leaders’ Act includes some of the esteemed Senators who are here. My point is, these traditional leaders also act to preside over issues such that any person can approach them. If they are messengers of the Executive, then there is a problem. So, I suggest that it be removed or if I am wrong in that submission, it has to be specified who they are. If I may take the indulgence of mentioning him, for me to imagine Chief Makumbe going from village to village giving a message that came from the police in one of his jurisdictions, I do not think that is proper. I just picked a chief from Manicaland because that is where I come from. So, those are my two submissions.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, you seem to be
suggesting that something has to be removed. Can you point at what has to be removed and where it is?
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: What we notice from the copy of
the Bill what we have is that it is not there but in the Lower House and the Minister has confirmed it, they agreed that on dissemination, I think Clause 2. My suggestion is that, that be removed. I am referring to (d) – communication through traditional leadership.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. Regarding what Hon. Sen. Timveos said, I think she did not quite get what the Bill says. It does not allow the regulator to issue a prohibition order indefinitely. It says you issue and if you issue for three months and you want to extend it, then you cannot. You then need now to show cause to a magistrate on why it should be issued. So, it is not a blank cheque but it is necessary that at times you need certain weapons to be banned in certain areas. We cannot take that away, like I gave you the example of makorokoza and for the police to control the killings or the rowdy behaviour to say, in this particular district for this period we are not allowing anyone to carry these weapons, and they ban for the purposes of ensuring that they contain the situation. This provision actually protects members of the public against individuals who will be perpetrating violence. So, I submit that it is not as she indicated.
I then want to come to Hon. Sen. Mwonzora – he raised two issues about traditional leadership and he speaks about the chief having to go door to door disseminating information. Chiefs do not work like that but they have messengers and there is no chief who does not have a messenger. The way our chiefs preside over the offences is different from the way it is done at the magistrates’ courts. So, the chief has several roles. He does not just preside over offences but he is also your elder in the area. He is both the executive and the judiciary. So, it is different. Let us look at them as to what role they are playing at that time. The chief sends his messengers to disseminate the information and not himself. So, this clause in fact, to enlighten the Hon. Senator, it was not there and the Parliamentary Legal Committee which is constituted by Members from both sides said perhaps this will be unconstitutional if we leave it like this because the mode of transmission of information in rural areas is through traditional leadership, so why not include it.
We agreed because when traditional leaders meet, the headman will tell people that there is a meeting, let us say for Agritex officers at such a place and that kind of thing. So, perhaps in their wisdom they then advise us that, why not do that for the purposes of ensuring that it happens. That was the reason why it was included but not necessarily to say in the strictest sense, the chief will be going door to door, no. It should not be viewed like that. I have already said that the regulator must seek leave of the magistrate’s court, Hon. Sen. Timveos, if they are to renew it. So, it is not the way you put it.
Again coming to Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, there is no strict liability in there. I think mens rea is part of every offence unless a law expressly states otherwise. So, whenever you interrogate, that has to be taken in mind that our law mens rea is part of every offence. So, the way it is, it is still very correct unless if this was expressly excluded, then it become strict liability. So I submit the way it is, is very correct and it satisfies what we are trying to achieve and nobody will be indiscriminately jailed if they did not have mens rea. If you say I was ignorant about the law and it is proved beyond reasonable doubt that a person just strayed into a prohibited area, then that person is not guilty unless if the mens rea element had been expressly excluded in this clause, then I would agree with Hon. Mwonzora that it would have a problem. I submit Hon.
Chair.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Chair. I think Clause 4
(3); ‘any person who is aggrieved by the prohibition issued under this subsection should appeal to the Minister…
The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs (Hon.
Ziyambi) approached the Chairperson for clarifications.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, we are getting back to
business.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is very simple. That particular section, article subsection 3 is going to be very difficult to put into operation. For someone who wants to appeal against the prohibition order based in Gokwe-Chireya, Malipati or somewhere in Gwanda down there in Madlambudzi, it will be very impractical and impossible for that person to come and appeal to the Minister against the prohibition order. How practical is it for an old man or old woman, young boy or young girl to come all the way from such a far distant area…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Senator. I think
people behind me are distracting proceedings.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: So this particular section, Hon. Minister, is very impossible to implement. My suggestion is very clear. If a person has got an appeal against an order he should appeal to the local magistrate.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Doctor you have a question
also?
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. Chair. It is on this same clause. On this same clause, when a prohibition order is declared, I just wanted to find out what time span is given before someone commits an offence because we are talking here of a rural area where there may be very difficult communication issues. So if say the regulating authority says with immediate effect but then you come across someone who was going on with his own business carrying those weapons, he is already criminalised in terms of this section.
So, how do we ensure that because they have not known the law not that it has just been declared, but we are talking of rural people and I think we should be sensitive to those weaknesses we have as a Government of propagating information. So, I would have thought probably we would give a time span to say probably a week from that prohibition date if you are found in possession of the banned weapons.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, the Minister is not
listening. He needs to consult something. You can continue.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. Chair, I was just asking on this clause to say when a prohibition order has been declared by the regulating authority, is there any time span to allow that information to reach to the populace because we all are cognisant of the communication issues in the remote parts of our country? It would be very unfair if I was probably protecting myself, I am going through the valley of death and then I come across the police. Already, I am criminalised for carrying such weapons when I had not been told. I do not know how the law can try to accommodate such scenarios because this law has to be user friendly for the people.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Minister, before you come in, can you agree that on Clause 4 once the Minister responds we proceed to
Clause 5? It is only fair that those that want to submit anything on Clause 4 they do so before the Minister responds.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Mr. President, I want to submit something on clause 4.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Proceed.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President. I wanted to tell you that if you look at this Clause 4 (1) which talks about knobkerries, where I come from in Bulawayo there is a place where people carry knobkerries as a tradition. These are the Xhosa people. They are always with their knobkerries. This needs to be well specified. We specify traditional knobkerries because if we take them away from them…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order. There is a bit of noise and disruption. Okay, proceed.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: I was thinking that we are supposed to specify on the knobkerries which are supposed to be taken away. For example, as Shoko I can be given a knobkerrie for traditional rituals. So if I am found with that knobkerrie in a prohibited area, it will be taken away from me because it is classified as a dangerous weapon. This must be specified that it is a traditional knobkerrie, it should not be taken away because if you do not know tradition, if we take the knobkerrie of forefathers away the whole clan is affected.
HON. SEN. ? MPOFU: I just wanted clarification on 4.3, in particular, do we still retain the Minister as the person who this aggrieved person goes to or it will retain what was agreed in the Lower House which is the Magistrates Court? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Minister before you come in I
see the last one.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Is it on the same issue.
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: Yes, it is the same issue.
HON. ZIYAMBI: If it is the same issue I will not respond.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Minister, you will respond. It
is Clause 4
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I come
from rural areas especially remote rural areas in Binga and other parts of the country whereby we use logs when we want to build something. So that person will be carrying an axe going to cut logs in the bush. What if the police meet that person, is he going to be arrested for carrying an axe which he wanted to use?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. On the question by
Hon. Komichi, that is why you saw me having to check with the
Parliament administration. I agree in the Lower House we substituted Minister with magistrate courts. I think it is a typo that happened. We sat until early hours of Friday and the Parliament administration had to consolidate all the amendments that were made. So I agree with him that this is a typo, it is there in the Hansard. When you saw me conversing, I was trying to figure out why it was not captured the way we had agreed. In that regard we agreed to substitute with the
Magistrate’s Court. That is the same spirit that we had when we sat with the PLC. So with your indulgence, this was a typo. If you can allow that we delete in this sub clause and we clean it up and substitute with Magistrate’s Court where it says Minister.
I then want to go on to what other Hon. Members were saying. Hon. Chair, if you look at Clause 4 it says, temporary prohibition of possession of certain weapons within particular police districts. If you read it, it says without derogation from section 28, ‘ possession of dangerous weapons of the criminal law code if a regulating authority believes that the carrying in public, whether openly or by concealment in a public place or public thoroughfare or public display of any of the following weapons’ and they are listed, ‘the regulator within that area can issue a prohibition order not exceeding three months.’
The mischief here, we are not talking about demonstrations or meetings. There is a real danger that may occur in a certain police district and the police officer in that particular district realises that if we allow the carrying of these weapons members of the public may be injured. So to protect those who are carrying them and to identify the culprits you then issue a prohibition order to ban the use of certain weapons. I admit that certain weapons are also traditional weapons but this is temporary to cure something that has arisen. So, this clause is very necessary for the maintenance of peace and order, like the example that I gave you of the korokozas vanotemana nemamachetes. The Officer in Charge of police will see that the crime of hurting each other with machetes is on the rise then he calls for a meeting with the people and announces that for the next 3 months no one is allowed to move around with machetes. It is a temporary measure. So to answer what Hon. Sen. Mavetera said, in any of our laws, mens rea is part of the component kuti wanga une intention yei unless if the law removes it, it is now strict liability. So, we cannot prescribe because even if you say you are giving them 7 days notice, some people will move with their axes unknowingly. So that can be interrogated. We believe it is okay as it is. Even if it is a traditional weapon for the ancestral spirits but it is capable of harming people, you must avoid moving around with it for that particular period. If people are hurting each other with axes you cannot then say mine is for the ancestral spirits, so police cannot question me. It becomes very difficult. So this clause is very good to ensure that people are protected.
You must be mindful that there are people out there that are capable of causing death of people. This clause with this correction is good. I thank you Hon. Senators because you have read, I want to applaud you. Hon. Senators said I was very harsh on them but I also want to congratulate those that were vigilant to kick things that we agreed in the Senate. I thank you.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: On a point of order.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: My point of order is that the corrections that we do in this august Senate are not taken into consideration and when we ask the Minister, he will say that is what was agreed in the
Lower House. So, we plead with the Minister that when we do these things it must be clear which areas were corrected from the Lower House so that we do not repeat them here, it will help us.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I think it is a good point.
Clause 4 put an agreed to.
On Clause 5:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you I wanted to find out a little bit about 5 (1) (b), which actually introduces a deputy to the convener. However, if you go down on 5 (iii), it talks about the organisation choosing someone else and then also on 5.7. On the third or so sentence talks about a convener or someone from the organisation still not the deputy. The only time I see a deputy being mentioned, I think is section 7 (2) (a) where the address of the deputy is required. My question is, with all this in perspective, why do we need a deputy if the organisation and convener can send a proxy? Can the Minister explain?
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I do not know if the Minister
got it correct. I do not see any 7 (ii) (a).
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: When you go to Clause 7 under (V),
sorry it is not under 5, I was just mentioning that the only other place where I see the deputy being mentioned is when the address is required which is in section 7 (ii) (a). My question was that the issue of the deputy, may be it has to be explicit especially on section 5 (iii) and 5 (vii) that if the convener is not, there then the deputy is answerable. If the organisation has got to choose then I am still trying to understand why then we need the deputy in the context of what is presented here by law.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Hon. Chair. Clause 5 (viii)
requires the regulating authority to request a political party or other organisations from time to time submit list of members of the organs of the structures of the political party who are entitled to attend a meeting of the structures of the party. This clause is unconstitutional as it infringes on the right of every citizen to assemble as enshrined in Section 58 of the Constitution. It is susceptible to serious abuse by the police or State agency if they want to hunt down political activists since they will have a data base. The prohibition will be effective only if published in newspapers circulating in the area by announcement of a police officer, broadcast or made orally or by notices. There is need to expand the method of communication of such notices as most areas are excommunicado due to various factors ranging from remoteness to cyclone. I think this is where the chiefs come in. So, it looks like we did vice versa on point (iv), this is where it comes up now.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you very much. I want to go back
to sub paragraph (viii) of 5. Minister, you may not be aware but on this side of the aisle, it is common cause that homes are knocked in the middle of the night and party structures are collected by so-called Government officials or police or whoever. They end up either disappearing or appearing in court after several days or weeks and it is only because someone is holding our data base. I was really thinking that this particular information here is very much subject to abuse. Not every police officer is political neutral and I personally would not expect anybody to be like that but then there are those who are not neutral that they could actually take itupon themselves to harass members of political parties. The collection of political party members and their addresses, I think is a big problem for us.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: After the appointment of the
convener and the deputy convener there does not seem to be protection afforded by the law to those people. My suggestion would be a clause to deal with their safety and security - the convener and the deputy convener once they have been supplied to the police because the police want their addresses and so on as the Hon. Senators were saying – what protection do they have? They are now special people and they are entitled to a special protection.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon. Senators for their contributions. The first one being the issue of the names of the conveners; you said the issue of a deputy is mentioned once and then the other side. I do not see any problems with that – what it simply says is, you need to submit if the main convener is no longer there but if you are collectively responsible, if you have a deputy and the other convener, I am not seeing any problems with that. The mischief that we want to cure is to be able to have people who can be contacted for the purposes of negotiating with the regulating authority to ensure that there is public safety and security. That is the whole basis of having this convener. If you go through this Bill, you will notice that the conveners also have meetings with the regulator where they discuss.
We have indicated in this Bill that those meetings must – unless there is something that precluded them from allowing them to go forward within three days, the meetings must go on. If that is not possible, they call the parties before the date of the demonstration to negotiate. If you specify one person and if he is sick, you will not be able to contact anyone. You can then contact the deputy to say you are listed here, what do we do and the deputy will be able to advise accordingly. I am not seeing anything untoward by having this clause.
The other issue is about the names of the political leadership.
Firstly, I want to say all our names are in the public domain. The only issue that is there is, within a particular police district, if you want to have your regular meetings like I do when I do my PCCs – they know all our names and addresses. We inform them in advance about the meetings that we do – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order!
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I am stating the law as it is, that we inform them. The reason why this is required is also for the protection of the very particular leadership that they are known that they hold meetings. Should anyone try to interfere, they are also insulated because they are known that they hold these meetings and should anyone want to hold meetings outside what is known by the regulator, police or local leadership in that particular areas then you can simply go and say you know our names. We told you we are having these meetings and these are not ours.
The list of names for leadership is known and I submit that this clause is necessary for the protection of the very political leadership from the mischievous elements that may try to abuse the leadership. I would not want to labour myself by talking about things that are outside the law. If like she said, people are visited at night – it is unlawful. If you have not committed any crime, why should people go about visiting people who have not committed a crime? In this Bill, it is not legislating in favour of that. I submit that we should accept it as it is and pass it Hon. Chair.
HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: We would like to know of the protection you give to the conveners even if they are known. Do you guarantee us that you will be giving them a second protection that they should not be visited at night?
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, I think you should understand where we are coming from. I think now it is four men who were visited during the night and they were beaten thoroughly and left for dead by armed people. If you see them, you would cry. It is all because these people know our structures and they know their addresses. The question was, what are you demonstrating about? You have to understand where we are coming from. Even the Constitution does not say that. I have a right to be MDC. You have a right to be ZANU PF. Let us live happily ever after as Zimbabweans. Why must somebody visit me at night? The moment I provide my address, I am finished. I know someone will visit me at night. Why?
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, I have got no problem at all with supplying the full details of the convener and his deputy because they are responsible for getting the meeting together but the details of all the other party organs and the structures is a very big problem for us Minister.
I am sure the Minister can hold his meetings very peacefully and non of his members has ever been beaten up or collected from their beds at night. We are talking of a situation which is foreign to him which we want him to understand why we have a reservation on this. The ordinary party structures of wards and polling stations – those people are not known because they are not that important but obviously people like us sitting in here are known by everyone and where we are. This is why probably we are safe but those people are so small that no one actually knows who they are unless we then go and expose them.
For instance, with this demonstration that is taking place on Friday, members have already started receiving guests at night and they are already being beaten. I could have sent you pictures of people who have already been emasculated if I had your number. They have been emasculated in anticipation of Friday. Those are leaders at their levels but right down there. These are the people that need protection from our State agents. We have this situation and it is current. We would say for the top leaders there is no need for protection, we are protected by our b names because we are known already. If anything happens to me, Minister, you can be sure that you will not have peace unless you say where I am and where I am to be found. Those people are so small that no one even knows them, if you say Mashanga is lost, they would say,
“Mashanga who”? nobody knows them. So those are the people who need to be protected and these are the people that I wanted to be protected in this particular section. Thank you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank Mr. Chair. I just want to understand if the other part is also going to do the same because we do not know, they are the ones who have all these institutions where this other party is supposed to report or other organisations. Are they going to submit the names of everyone? I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I want us to look at from another
angle, Hon. Minister and it is the right to privacy. For the convener, it is no problem but what this Clause means is that each and every member of the structures must consent to have their names submitted and it is their right not to want their names disclosed. So, there, you may have a problem of the constitutionality of this Clause. The fears are real, in 2008, 300 MDC youths were abducted, I was visited myself, it maybe the old dispensation but maybe one day there shall come a Pharaoh who did not know Joseph. So, we need to make sure that; it looks to me totally unnecessary.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I would like to persuade the Minister in
the spirit of the reform agenda and also in the spirit of having our law being regarded as good by every Zimbabwean. We as Senators from this particular side of the House, are afraid to have our names taken to the police because of the experience which my other counterpart have already mentioned, that our people have been murdered, raped and so forth. So, I want to appeal to the Minister, today for the first time is to consent with us to remove that particular Clause because it is not good for the reform agenda that we are trying to advance in this country. So, this particular section is actually going to be draconian in our view. It will not even help the State or the Minister himself because the convener would already give his name or her name so the police will be able to contact the convener for any reqquired processes of that meeting. We are afraid to be recorded by the police, please do not record us.
HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to say a few words with regards to what Hon. Komichi said in terms of those people who make phone calls threatening others – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I think for the Hon. Minister to debate with corrects information, we have got four people that were abducted yesterday and they are in a state of dying now. They were abducted by armed people who are from the State. So for his debate to have content, I just wanted to make that clarity.
HON. SEN. HUNGWE: I know that. We have same experiences
in cases like these. The issue across all parties is factions within the party, yes it happens – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: On a point of order! The man who is debating is an old man, whom by virtue of age, we should respect. I think it is quite provocative to start arguing issues of factions within political parties; we do not have guns at MDC.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order! Take your seat Hon. Sen. Komichi. In this august House there is no maximum age limit. We only have minimum age limit not maximum. Nobody can be described as old in this House, maybe one who is below 40 years, is the one who can be barred from this House.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): We had much
debate about political meetings in the lower House whether we should be notifying the regulating authority every time as an example if I want to have a feedback to my constituency. There is a mischief that we intend to cure by having this. I alluded to the fact that our names as public figures are already in the public domain.
Secondly, let us not conflate the mischief that we want to cure with lawlessness. If somebody visits someone in the middle of the night, beats them up, leaves them for dead, I heard Hon. Komichi saying that he knows the people who did that, that is illegal. If you knew those people, you are committing an offence by keeping quiet, go and report. This Government does not support and is not for beating up people, so whoever is doing it has not been sent by this Government. However we cannot regulate for things that are being done by illegal people, where in the world would you find somebody regulating to say I want to regulate because somebody is going to visit somebody at night. The mischief
that we are trying to cure is that you do not have to hold your meetings to go to the police to advise them about your meeting every time.
So, what this Clause is simply is that for the purposes of helping a regulating authority to ascertain that a meeting is not a public meeting as defined in Section two but it is a political meeting. You can give them that in my ward, I do hold meetings every Tuesdays with these people and that is it. The protection that is there is that if somebody then decides to have a meeting and hides in that I am from this organ, the police already know and those individuals are protected. That is the mischief that needs to be protected. But I cannot seat hear and try to regulate about people who visit other people at night and beat them up. That is not practical. They should simply say, we notified that we have our meetings on Mondays and our list is there with the officer in charge at Glen View Police Station. He knows that we do this but there are certain individuals who can now abuse this if you did not have that. We are protecting these people. Secondly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order please.
HON. ZIYAMBI: In essence Mr. Chairman, I am saying, this clause is for the protection of that particular organ and we do it. I am surprised that people are answering for me, I do it if I have my executive meetings and my executive is known. We give them a schedule. We do not have to go everyday to say this, we simply say, the first Saturday of every month, we have our provincial executive meeting. We do not have to go to the police everyday and they know who sit in that particular executive. Should somebody claim that he was in that meeting when violence occurs, they know that no, you do not belong to this group. Why are you claiming to be part of them? So these would have been afforded protection. Therefore, I submit that we leave it as it is. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I
think we need to be very sensitive and know our roles that we need to make sure that our country moves in the direction that we are being told it is moving. Submitting names of all activists, I think we may have heard unfortunate things that happened and we need to take cognisance of that but to profess ignorance, I think that would be very unfortunate. Just to remind Hon. Senators that why are we relooking at this Bill is because it is one of the Bills that have made our country a pariah state. We need to know that and we cannot continue for the next ten years when we approve this, our country in this same status. We are doing it for the good of our country. I think giving the names of the leadership is good enough because members of the party changes depending on our recruitment drive. For us, they will increase and for some of you, they will go down. I think we cannot every day go and say now I have a new member. I think it is not practically possible but also it induces a sense of fear. You are now trying to make it unconstitutional in the sense that the right to privacy is being violated through this Bill. I do not think that is the intention of this august House to let this go.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I need to clarify so that they do not repeat the same thing. This clause is not saying you submit names of everyone. It speaks of organs. That is why I kept referring to my organ that I chair – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – This is the leadership of the party, not...
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I have recognised you Sen. Ncube and you will have the opportunity to also contribute. Why disrupting the Minister when you know you will stand up. Can we proceed Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. The
clause is not saying, you submit a list of all activists as he is alluding to. It does not speak about activists at all, it only mentions office bearers of a party organ. If you have an executive of a district, the party office bearers and if they have meetings with the other members, for as long as they have submitted the names, they do not have to go to the regulating authority and inform them every time that they are having meetings. This clause is not saying, every member of the party including a card carrying member must be revealed tp the regulator. That is not what it is referring to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order. This is Senate and it is a glorious and dignified Chamber. It should have some elements and characteristics that are different from the National Assembly. Otherwise, we are a duplication of the other House and we will add no value. There should be something distinct and of value about the Senate and even the way we do business. There is no need of making noise. You have a Chairperson who is allowing you all the time you want to speak. Why do you want to make noise instead of just standing up and we listen to good points. I would like to say, whoever is holding the floor, let us listen to them.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. I have my rights. Mr. Chairman, you have to protect me. People cannot say aah, when you have given me the floor. Mr. Chairman, you have given us the opportunity to ask the Minister. The Minister should just write down what we are asking him and answer at once, instead of him answering one by one. I think it will be faster that way. I thank you Mr.
Chairman.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for that learned
contribution, only that the Minister thought the other four senators could ask similar questions. So, he thought by responding, he would pre-empt but we will still proceed maybe one would say, mine was responded to. If it has not been touched, there is still chance. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think we do not have what the Minister is reading in the Bill that is before us. The issue of structures is nowhere in the Bill. Minister, we are not protected. You said our names are already known, yes we know they are already known. We are living in fear. In this Parliament, I remember for the first time ever, Members were attacked. They were beaten in the National Assembly there. That is why we are very much concerned about the issue of protecting the convenors because that is the leadership of the party. The other Hon. Senator said those people are small. Yes, they are but the issue is about protection for everyone. Itai Dzamara was taken in broad day light. No one knows about his whereabouts...
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think let us stick to the issues at hand. Issues of criminality, which do not pertain to public meetings and public gatherings should not be debated here. The person who abducted Itai Dzamara, it is not even on record that he was taken from a public meeting. Let us not try to dramatise and bring in things that are not within the Bill. I submit that, let us give examples that are relevant to issues that are contained in the Bill. I so submit.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I propose that this clause be removed.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I want to take the Minister back to
the protection of these people or protection of everyone who is involved in these matters that are under consideration. Let me inform the Minister that the people out there have no protection. In 2008, we lost over 500 polling agents who died during and after elections. What we are saying here is not a joke and should not be treated as fiction. Some of the
Members here lost their relatives due to these things.
We are appealing for the protection of the people. Are you aware that from the list of names that is submitted to ZEC, after elections are conducted these people are followed up and they are beaten? It is true and everyone knows it.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, let us give others a
chance to contribute. If you have a better word to say, please write it down and when it is your turn then you can bring it up.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: We are appealing for the protection of people whose names would have been forwarded to authorities. I have a relative who was beaten up last night and he is admitted at Avenues Clinic. He is nursing a broken arm and leg. He was beaten up by armed people for a demonstration which has not yet happened. I am saying the truth. Let us go to the Avenues Clinic today, right now and see people who were beaten up by armed people. We are asking the Minister to give us assurance that if the names are submitted to him, those people will not be killed.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: The issue which is being said is an issue which we are supposed to consider all of us. These laws we are crafting are not only ours but they are for the investors outside the country who also look at these laws. When they look at these laws that is when they start pointing at the wrongs that you are doing. I do not see anything wrong for the Minister that we agree as a family and fix it. How do we want it fixed? Some had already said that let it be removed. Why are you refusing to remove it? What we are saying here are the things that are going to happen because you are adamant that this clause has to remain. What is it that you are going to gain from this clause? We have given you examples of four people who were beaten up yesterday by armed people. Are we saying that these people with guns are terrorists as it was once said by Hon. Matemadanda that these people had stolen some guns.
Is it an MDC faction which has guns like what one Hon. Member said?
Let us not fix people by crafting bad laws. We do not know what will happen tomorrow. When former President Mugabe was putting laws he did not know that a coup on 17 November was going to come. It
came and he was removed with his laws. Remember, one day these laws can be used against you. The laws affect everyone including those who come from outside to invest. We sometimes accuse each other of blocking investors yet this is caused by bad laws. Let us accept these proposals of fixing our laws. We need to come up with a good law which is good for our country.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I would like the Minister to understand where I am coming from. He wants the names and addresses of people in a structure. For example, a structure in a district has 200 people and a branch structure has 500 people. Hon Minister, are you saying you want to know the addresses of all these people. If you have known all these addresses…
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, let us have order in the
House. That goes for Senators sitting directly in front of me including Senator Mohadi.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. Chairman for protecting me. I remember when we were in a caucus of women parliamentarians, we agreed that we have to respect each other as women. I respect you very much and let us respect each other as women.
I am saying - do you want the names and addresses of 200 people in a structure that you know are activists of the party, whether it is ZANU PF or whatever party? There are many parties these days and you want to know the names and addresses of 700 people that have meetings every Tuesday. I really want you to explain and I am going to appeal to you to remove this clause because it is unconstitutional. I have a right to privacy. I have a right to belong to any party of my choice. I have a right to gather. The convener has already given you his addresses and that is all, unless you want to recruit within us?
C.C st700-710 14th August, 2019
*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: Thank your Mr. Chairman. I think the
Hon. Minister is aware of what is being said. It happened in the
National Assembly, the issue of people’s names is problematic. There is a Security and Defence Committee where Hon. Mamombe was part of. She was followed and arrested and what Hon. Senators are saying is
very true. We realised that it is very easy for one to be traced through those structures. We are saying a lot of things here including the issue of soldiers. Those soldiers will one day turn against you.
Former President Mugabe never thought that the soldiers would turn against him. Remember, that those soldiers you are using will turn against you tomorrow. Let us craft our Bills looking at the bad and good of it – this will be bad for you.
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am very
pained by this issue. Maybe the Hon. Minister is not aware of what transpires in the rural areas. As you see us, our names are in the Law and Order section and we are going to be followed after this demonstration by people in suits.
They will come and say, ‘May I see Senator Gweshe?’ I was taken several times to the Law and Order section. I do not know what this Law and Order section is all about but it is a police department and that is where we are taken through these names that are being written. They have these names and after this demonstration, the Member of Parliament, Senator and councillor will be taken away and you will hear that we were taken away. Why do they not arrest people at the scene and not follow people to their homes?
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I do not know but when the Hon. Minister comes here we are supposed to talk to each other about what he wants and also what we want. It is very important that we meet in-between. Why is the Hon. Minister afraid of removing what has been discussed all this time? What we are discussing is happening in our country. – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.]
MDC is a registered party and the leaders are known but these 200 names – we do not want to instill fear in our people so that they run away from the party because their names have been submitted. These names are written and even those people who sign the nomination papers are picked up. We know that our identities are not protected and this is instilling fear in Zimbabweans. Hon. Minister, may you please remove this section as it will not resolve anything in this country. It will just make sure that Zimbabweans are safe. We request the Hon. Minister not to argue unless there are some other people behind sending him not to move away from that position.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I was of
the opinion that since some people are busy making noise, I thought that you were going to issue an order for me to be heard in peace.
I heard the Hon. Minister talking about organs but even the organs are not supposed to be included in this Bill. I realise that the Hon. Minister sat down and planned because when they take the organ, they know that everyone’s name is there in the open. It is clear that the Hon. Minister wants the MDC database in order to know where the 2.6 million came from – that is what I am seeing here. The Hon. Minister wants the database and the identities of the people who voted for Mr. Chamisa. They will have proof of where the 2.6 million came from, had it not been the case, this section was just going to be removed. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My
issue with the Hon. Minister was when he said that everyone who would have committed a crime when Hon. Sen. Komichi mentioned that some people were beaten up yesterday by some unknown assailants. It is a lie to say that these people are going to be arrested.
My home was destroyed in 2002 by people who I know but they were not arrested. Some of them are now councillors and others are holding top posts in the party and nothing was done to them. We are lying to each other in this House that these people will be arrested.
When I destroyed Landau’s home, what happened to me?
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order, maybe we need
to assist each other. Those debating, please make sure that your contributions align to the dictates of the Bill. You may proceed.
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President, I am
only buttressing the fact that we are not in support of this Bill. It does not help us in any way because it is favourable to one side. I thank you. ++HON. SEN. NYATHI: Thank you for giving me this
opportunity to debate on this Bill. I also want to contribute that we do not want this Bill as Senate.
I am saying this because I was born in 1960 and have never fought with anyone or done anything wrong. Are you telling me that Hon. Minister, if there is a demonstration, am I not supposed to visit someone who is sick or visit a relative? I was arrested but have never been arrested since birth but now I was arrested simply because I was a convener and because I had business to undertake on that day. I was accused of writing some papers yet I had not written all those papers but since I was listed as having written them – they were following me on that day. They followed me to the bus termini as I was going to the Roman Catholic Church just near the termini. I was just standing by the church when the police approached me and the people gathered there,
‘All of you go away and leave this place’. I then enquired as to what had happened so much that we were being asked to leave the place.
They responded that nothing had happened. I then queried as to what the problem was.
I stood up and went to church. I was then taken whilst I was in the church premises and they informed me that I was under arrest. They spent the whole day going around with me saying I was under arrest. When I arrived at the Police Station, I went to the DISPOL who asked what my crime was. I told them that I was going around doing my business. I am talking about things that are happening in Zimbabwe. Then the Dispo said leave her and she told me to go back home. She told me that if anyone approaches you or does anything wrong against you report to me. Then I went to Zambia for the third time and the fourth time I went to Zambia to buy basic commodities that are no longer available here in Zimbabwe because things are tough. As soon as I came to the border my children called and told me that there were CIOs who were looking for me. Then I went to the police and that issue did not proceed. Then I stayed in Vice Falls because I knew that if I went home they would abduct me and lock me up. Then on a Monday I went to court with my lawyer. They told me to pay bail but my lawyer refused. I used to go everyday.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON:: There are some here who said
they feel emotional when they speak on this issue. However, that can be aired out during the second reading because that is where you can tell us all the general issues. I have observed that some of us are still generalising as if we are in the second reading. That is where we can hear examples and life experiences. But in the Committee of the Whole House you have to be specific in terms of certain sections or clauses.
HON. SEN. NYATHI: Mr President Sir, I said we do not want that clause because it is giving us trouble. We are not staying well because of that clause.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON:: You see now you have now
hit the nail on the head by just saying you do not want that clause.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Minister, I am not going to take long but I would want you to closely examine this as an educated person.
Why are people crying, why are Members of the Senate saying they do not want the Bill. I was the third person to say we do not want this clause which is one sided, favours the Government party and is against the opposition. The clause seeks to look at who is in our structures and who is in the civil service and then discharge them from service. This is not a good clause. My son is a lawyer and he a public prosecutor and was in the MDC structures. He was fired from his job and he became a loafer. Later on he then joined a law firm. If all the people are to die who are you going to lead and rule? Remove that clause. People are unhappy about this oppressive clause which kills people. It is not fair.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: I rise to also support the removal of the clause. I am also going to reiterate what the previous speaker has said. Soldiers that are being used are not happy. Tomorrow they are going to turn against you. When a demonstration took place...
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order simply means
resume your seat and listen to the one who is on the floor.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The President of the Senate read the rules out.
The Hon Member is saying she wants to repeat what others have said. I have heard that. So, I want to indulge Members to point out things that have not been said by others. That is what the rules say unless otherwise we just want to debate for the sake of debating. The rules are very clear so I submit Hon. Chair.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I hope you have understood
please do not repeat.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI:I would want to say that when we had a demonstration
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I said we need to be specific
in this stage of the Bill. It is not about the history or generalisation.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: All I want to do is speak. The demonstration in December – give me a chance. I had my own relatives that came they were not in uniform. There were people who came to take down names.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Sen Muronzi, the point I
am making is you should address a specific clause and that you also propose a certain amendment, the end result that you want to see. Or what should we do about the law in terms of the people that were targeted. If we were to give everyone a chance about their life experiences during the election I do not know how we will end. We are now dealing with clause by clause. Confine yourself to a specific clause and do not misdirect your energy and yourselves in dealing in a futile exercise. The last Hon. Member said it was not good and that was specific. Please go ahead.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Chairperson I said the clause requires to infiltrate the structures of the MDC and we do not want it. That should be removed because when we conduct our demonstrations, our own sons and daughters who are soldiers come in civilian clothes. I had to chase away a certain member who was in civilian clothes. That should be removed.
*HON. SEN RAMBANEPASI: I did not clearly understand. I had to go outside to attend certain issues. There was talk of clause 4 but it is now similar.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: We are now on clause 5 we
have already done away with all the other clauses. When you went out we dealt with Clause 4. Which clause are you addressing?
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I wanted to talk on Clause 5 (8)
in relation to the respect of chiefs. Chiefs should be respected.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order. Sen.
Rambanepasi, we have dealt with that clause when you were outside; now it is time for the Minister to respond.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. I submit that the issues that were being discussed here are not speaking to Clause 5 (8). Clause 5 (8) does not say submit addresses.
So, I think we should not worry about that because it is not there. Secondly, I think what has been happening is people who were expressing their displeasure concerning a certain illegality that cannot be cured by this clause; they spoke about abductions yesterday. This clause was not there.
So, I do not see a relationship between 2008; whatever demonstrations that took place, I do not know even the date or even what happened yesterday with this clause. Even if we remove it without removing the culture of illegality, we will not achieve what they have been debating. I submit Hon. Chair that what we need is to stick to constitutionalism and the rule of law. This clause has nothing to do with what they were indicating. If somebody was abducted last night, it has nothing to do with this clause. Even if I am to expunge it now, without returning to rule of law, we will still have abductions.
So, I submit that the mischief that needs to be cured by this clause is simply to say, if you read it carefully, “for the purposes of helping a regulatory authority to ascertain that a meeting is not a public meeting as defined in Section 2,” If you go to Section 2 of the definitions’ section which we agreed to, public meeting is defined as “a meeting of more than 15 persons in a public place or meeting with the public or any section of the public that is permitted to attend whether on payment or otherwise but does not include a meeting of any organ or structure of a political party or other organ held in a private place” and it explains the others.
What this section is simply saying is, “for the purposes of helping the regulatory authority ascertain that a meeting is not a public meeting as defined in Section 2 prove to it that it is a meeting of a political organ of office bearers, the regulatory authority ‘may’… it does not say “must” – in other words, what this clause is trying to cure is, we know that political parties hold meetings and I do not know an organ unless it is a national executive of some sort, but district organs and branch organs ordinarily do not constitute 500 people, that is the generality of the people. These are the organs; the structure; the leadership of that particular organ. These are the lists of names not addresses.
In any event, I submit Hon. Chair, that the names are already in the public domain. The moment you become a public figure like what Hon. Sen. Gweshe said, anyone who wants to partake in an illegality she/he knows where she/he stays whether this particular clause is there or not. So what I am submitting that what we are striving towards is to ensure that we have constitutionalism and the rule of law and nobody stood up to say that we should be in the culture of abducting people. That is why
I submitted Hon. Chair, that should you know - because I heard Hon.
Members saying that they know who did it last night – [HON.
SENATORS: Inaudible interjection.] - They should be reported because it was sanctioned by the administration. So I submit that this clause as it is – it does not speak to what they were talking about and I move that we proceed to adopt it as it is.
Clauses 5 put and agreed to.
Clause 6 put and agreed to.
On Clause 7:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, I
suggest that in Clause 7 (1) (a), that we reduce the 7 days to 4 days because I feel that the 7 seven days is quite a long time to give notice, especially that in some cases – especially if I look at Clause 7 (1) (b) where it says, 5 days notice for public meetings; some meetings might actually be urgent and so forth, I suggest the reduction of number of days on each clause - 4 for the first part and 3 for the second part. I hope the Minister will agree.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Mine is on
sub-clause 5 of Clause 7. I agree with Hon. Sen. Mpofu on the reduction of days from 7days to 4d days and from 5 days to 3 days but sub-clause 5, the very last clause, any person who knowingly fails to give notice of a gathering in terms of sub-section 1 or the postponement or delay and then it says liable to a fine or imprisonment. I am aware of the
Minister’s opinion regarding the use of just cause. So, it should read that, “any person who knowingly and without just cause fails to give the notice of a postponement, et cetera.’
I have reflected on what the Minister said previously relating to the same issue that the addition of just cause deals only with issues of mens rea which are there anyway, actually incorrect. When a person knowingly does it, he may knowingly not give the notice either because it is impractical for him to do that on account of impossibility etc. So, we must add without ‘just cause’. So, the intention of not giving notice
is there but he has a reason or just cause. I suggest we add ‘and without just cause’.
Then that offence is not such a big offence Hon. Minister if you look at it and you see the fine is level 10 or one year imprisonment. It is unduly harsh, no question about it and this is for a first offence. So, my suggestion is that it must be confined to a fine of level five and that other one to a fine of level three. Hon. Minister, I will give an example - you are in Glen View and you are the convener and you have decided to postpone the meeting because the regulating authority is in Harare Central. It is January 14 and it is impossible for you to travel safely, and you are unable to communicate and you make a conscious decision to stay away. So, the term ‘just cause’ must be added. The other advantage of adding ‘just cause’ Hon. Minister is to shift the onus. The onus always has to go to the State. So, I suggest ‘just cause’ and the reduction, removal of that sentence. One year for failing to give a notice is unduly harsh.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon. Members regarding this Clause. I want to start with Hon. Sen. Mpofu who said can we reduce the seven days notice period. I think the seven days is a reasonable time in order to allow the regulatory authority not to make hasty decisions to prohibit meetings. Hon. Chair, issues concerning public order is a matter that affects other people’s rights. So, we should be very cautious when we say let us have a very short period where either you infringe by making hasty decisions on the rights of those that want to demonstrate or the reverse by granting when you have not made sufficient due diligence to ensure that the public safety and security is guaranteed. So, I believe it is reasonable.
In any event, if you go and look at the powers of the police it is not every demonstration or procession that occurs that will be banned. Sometimes they can actually use their discretion to say okay, you did not give notice but you can proceed and this is allowed in this Bill. I believe that in this Bill the mischief that we want to deal with is we want to ensure that the safety and rights of both sides is guaranteed. I think it is in order as it is.
Pertaining to Hon. Sen. Mwonzora’s concern, I submit Hon. Chair that a person is entitled to his defence including mens rea here and other defences such as just cause and impossibility, all those defences are available and our criminal courts allow all those. I submit that this is not a strict liability offence as it is. In any event, I listened attentively to Hon. Mwonzora who says it maybe too dangerous. You see, again the mischief that we want to cure is we want to deal with would-be conveners of demonstrations that may infringe on the rights of others and result in destruction of property and loss of life. This is the whole reason why we have this law.
So, when Hon. Sen. Mwonzora says it may be too dangerous, I believe that if you are conducting a demonstration or public meeting that has no mischief, you should be able to come in the open because you do not have anything to hide. My submission is we should make laws that are deterrent enough to ensure that people who want to break the law are deterred from doing that by mere thought of the sentence that can be imposed.
So, reduction in sentence is out of the question because we need deterrent measures particularly when it comes to public violence issues. The law must be very clear that public violence is not tolerated. In any event he who pleads that the law must be lenient may hide some mischief behind hoping to get away with a lesser sentence. We want a deterrent sentence so that nobody will go and break the law and violate the rights of others. I believe and submit that it is okay and move that we adopt it as it is. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: The law as enunciated by the
Minister is incorrect. A deterrent sentence is not only a custodial sentence. In periods of economic hardship a heavy fine is equally deterrent. So, why sentence our people to one year imprisonment for failing to give a simple notice where they have just cause of failing to do that? It is not true and we can divide the House on this. It is not true that if we do not add those words the defence still exists. Somebody is
unable to deliver the notice because the situation is too dangerous. They have knowingly not delivered but they have a just reason or cause. What do we lose by adding those words? I suggest Mr. Chair that if we are not in agreement we divide the House.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Indeed what he is saying is correct. The fine is also deterrent and it is included. The courts will make the necessary adjudication. What he is saying is very correct.
If you read it says a ‘fine or imprisonment’. So, the fine will be deterrent and the level is given and or a year in prison or both depending on the severity because that is where the deterrence is. Why should we reduce it? There is something hidden. Some people are planning some mischief so they want a lesser fine. If like what the Bible says, you are a born again Christian, the law does not apply to you because you do not break it and are not living in sin. If you are living in sin the law will apply. I am submitting Hon. Chair that this is very necessary for the deterrence, exactly what he said save that he just wanted to say I did not put it correctly but exactly his words, that is exactly what I wanted to say. I submit Hon. Chair.
Also to add that the sentence is a maximum and it is at the the discretion of the courts and the fine is also there which the courts can give. So, it is at discretion and I submit that we keep it as it is. And, the maximum fine in this case, currently it is RTGS$10 000.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. Chairman. When I
listened to the Minister, he seemed not to have taken into consideration the issue that the other Hon. Member said. He said can we add the words “with just cause” and it looks like the Minister has not addressed that. Can he address that?
HON. ZIYAMBI: I addressed it Hon. Chair when I said that the defences that are available to anyone, a person is entitled to his defence in court and I indicted that including mens rea, just cause and impossibility – all those in your defence. So, this will be just a cosmetic issue. They are already there. So, I am submitting that what he is suggesting is already taken care of within our system. I addressed that.
Thank you Hon. Chair.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Much of it is simply repetition
of previous questions. You are not going to repeat.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: It might be a repeat but I think it
is important. It may not be a repeat but it is interpreted as a repeat.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The Minister has not addressed the last
part. If you look at the sentence at the end of Section 7.5 it just says a fine not exceeding level and it did not specify the level and we suggested level three and he did not come back to us on that one. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON:: Maybe Hon. Mpofu just
come again.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The last sentence of Clause 7, it says be liable to a fine not exceeding level and it says full stop. We had suggested that level 3 be inserted there and the Minister did not come back to us.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Like I said before, they worked over the
holiday and over night – I think it is level 10 because I cannot put level 3 here. If you read it; that is why I said you can read the whole Clause. It would not make sense to say level 3 at the end when we have already indicated that it is level 10. If you read inside, there is level 10.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Minister, I think we need to
know the purpose of this not just to be draconian but this is actually very draconian for such a supposedly crime. With all due respect, if we are to move forward and be progressive as a nation, we need to show seriousness. I think that we are being trigger happy to say, because I have two heavy bullets, I can continue shooting. This is actually the situation which we are experiencing and this is too much for just failing to cancel, you are imprisoned for one year.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON:: I think Hon. Sen. Mwonzora
made that point graphically. So, you are simply repeating and repeating.
I said new only – Clause 7 and not to repeat what has been said.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Following the Minister’s response, there is something new which the Minister does not appear to have noticed. If you look at Clause 5, it talks of two offences. The first offence is contravening subsection 1, it then carries level 10 and one year imprisonment. It then says in the case of contravention of Sections 3 and 4; it then talks of a fine only. Now, it cannot be the same if these are two offences. So, that is why Hon. Sen. Mpofu is suggesting that the level of the fine there, those offences are not the same. One is contravening subsection 1 and the other one is contravening of other subsections. The sentence cannot possibly be the same.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The three that we are suggesting is not even captured in the Hansard or any vote in the Lower House. So, it is not something that has been carried over from that end. It is something that was forgotten for some reason and therefore, my suggestion is new and not being taking from anywhere else. Thank you.
Business was suspended for Fifteen Minutes and was resumed at
2020 hours.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order. I think the
break was necessary to re-energise. The Minister is back. Minister, can we proceed?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. After carefully considering submissions by Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, I agree with him and I propose that we make the following amendments to Clause 7 (5) to read as follows:- ‘Any person who knowingly fails to give notice of a gathering in terms of Subsection (1) or of the postponement or delay of a gathering in terms of Subsection (3) shall be liable to a fine not exceeding level 10 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year or to both”. I submit.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: It would be the wrong thing to do
because two offences which are different in gravity have the same punishment. Slapping somebody and stabbing them, this law is giving th same sentence. Here, contravention of Clause 1 is ignoring giving the original notice; 3 and 4 is failure to communicate a cancellation of the meeting.
HON. ZIYAMBI: 4 is no longer there.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Alright, but 3 and 1 cannot be the
same. The first one is that the person has ignored the law and has not given a notice at all. You are considering it a serious offence – he has cancelled his meeting or has postponed his meeting but has failed to communicate the cancellation and the postponement. In other words, he has simply caused inconvenience to the police. His meeting is lawful, he had complied with the law and we are saying we punish him the same. It is unfair and unjust. One of our functions is to make sure that we make just laws. This will be unjust and undefendable. Simple postponement of a lawful meeting – I apply for a meeting and I am given permission. I comply with everything but for some reason, I postpone the meeting then forget to inform – then I am given one year imprisonment. No, no, no Hon. Members; it would be unjust.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What Hon. Sen. Mwonzora did not say or
deliberately, I think it is not deliberate is that this is the maximum. So, potentially, Hon. Mwonzora, the one who contravenes subsection 3 is a very dangerous person. I will explain why. You give notice, you decide to postpone, then you wake up, you convene a meeting on a day that was not the original date without even having regard to comply with provisions of Section 8.
So, what we are saying is that if you fail to communicate, the maximum is what you are referring to but the magistrate can give his discretionary up to a year or level 10. We have removed the cancelled one because I think if the police believe that their time have been wasted, they have other remedies that they can seek – we have removed that. But these ones there is a potential danger if we play around with them. I have conceded to what you said initially and I think this is now a much improved. I actually want to thank you because the way it was; it was even penalising the one who has just cancelled and your initial argument made a lot of sense but I believe that those that postponed and they may then go on to do it on a wrong date, I think it is potentially dangerous but the level of fine, it says a maximum of level 10 or a maximum of 1 year. So, I think the maximum fine will be very much relevant to those that do not give a notice at all but those that gave a notice and postponed, surely, the way it is now, it is much better, you can indulge me and accept the way it is. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: One can postpone their meeting and
still go on to comply with the law or one can postpone the meeting, hold it. Now, what the Minister is saying is that we are punishing those people the same. That is the wording here, the wording does not say what the Minister is saying. There are two scenarios, I postpone my meeting to another date, I am no longer holding my demonstration on the 16th, I am holding it on the 21st and I inform the police or I simply say, I am not holding it on the 16th, I am holding it on the 21st and do not inform anyone. What this section is doing is that it is punishing those people the same and it will be unjust. That is the point I am making, you may need to rephrase that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Why I seek the indulgence of Hon. Mwonzora, surely a reasonable judicial officer will not penalise a person who innocently delayed a gathering and like I said before, remember you are entitled to your defence. So, I think the mischief that this section is trying to cure is there are those that will go through the motions of the necessary notification and deliberately decide to postpone to another date and hide under the banner that they had given notice. So, I think, unless if we are saying our courts would unnecessarily punish somebody and do not even look at innocent conveners who did not do anything. The way it is, I think to me, I submit that this group is actually more dangerous than the one who disregards the law at all and I submit that the way it is couched, the level of fine is giving the maximum. I submit Hon. Chair, that we proceed and with the amendments, like I said, I want to thank him for highlighting that there was something wrong with it which I think now is correct.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I want to thank the Minister for
cancelling subsection four. However, subsection 5 includes the penalties for subsection 4 which is now cancelled and it would give us comfort if it was to be reworded so that when we leave here, we know exactly what it will look like. If we leave it like this it will continue to look as if number 4 is still part and parcel of it. While I agree that you have taken it out, you have not given us a substitute for 5 which excludes the penalties for 4.
HON. ZIYAMBI: When we make amendments in Committee
Stage, we do not immediately print and give a copy, it is captured by Hansard and then they will make the necessary amendments. So, when I rose initially when I thanked Hon. Mwonzora, I read out how it is going to read. It excludes 4, so I conceded that it would not be necessary to punish anyone who has cancelled. I went further to say to Hon. Mwonzora that I think the police will have other remedies if they feel that their time had been wasted but we cannot then criminalise it here.
Amendment to Clause 7 put and agreed to.
Clause 7, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 8:
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Clauses 8 (3) and 9 which prescribes that a regulatory authority may receive information under oath that a demonstration would cause serious vehicle or pedestrian disruption and this is very broad and unnecessary by its nature. A demonstration has such results, the whole concept of notifying the police should not be construed as an application which they can decline or consent to. The provision in Clause 8 (3) which empowers the police to cancel the demonstration unconstitutional as they violate Section 58 of the Constitution, right to assemble. Taken in the full context, the right to demonstrate is guaranteed by the Constitution, anyone who seeks to limit or bar that right should be the one to approach the court in the instant case. If there is a disagreement between the regular and convener, the onus is on the regulator to approach the court to restrict the right. More importantly, the police officer cannot be the arbiter and the regulator at the same time. A third party should be the arbiter, in this case the court. Clause 8 (10) makes it criminal offence to go against a prohibition order suffice to say it is unconstitutional to criminalise a right to assemble as staged here in before. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. What Hon. Sen.
Timveos has just said is not provided for in this Section. What it simply states is, if you receive information under oath which the other party also is entitled to that I am also entitled to alert the police that this type of demonstration, I heard so and so planning to use a petrol bomb. What it is saying is the regulating authority will invite the convenor to make them aware of that and discussions will go on. What you were reading, if you go through it slowly, you will realise that the person came and gave a statement under oath to say, officer-in-charge, when I was passing through that road, I saw four gentlemen discussing that when that demonstration is ongoing, they plan to throw a petrol bomb. It will be irresponsible for any regulating authority or law enforcer to ignore such information hence the need to invite the convenor for a consultative meeting at a time and venue specified by the regulatory authority in order to explore options to prevent the threat. It is not that the regulator will wake up and say I have received information under oath and I am banning this. They will invite you to explore that and ‘shall’ afford an opportunity to the convenor to make representations verbally or in writing to the regulating authority before that meeting on whether the perceived threat is real or on the suitability of the time or venue of the meeting. This clause is very necessary. Let us not lose sight of the reason why we are having a law on maintenance of peace and order.
Mr. Chairman, while I appreciate what she was saying that, no the convenor is the one who must go to court, if your rights are infringed, you go to court to enforce your rights. The one who has infringed your right is not the one who goes to court. That is what the Constitution says in Section 85. If my rights are infringed, I go to court to get a court order so that my right is enforced. It is not the regulator’s job to ensure that your rights are enforced. It is the court, where an infringement has occurred. I believe the way it is couched, it gives all of us comfort. We cannot say, any information that is received, we take it seriously, especially with the proviso that we put that under oath. I submit Mr.
Chairman.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: On Clause 8 (3) line 30 where it is written, provided that the time for the meeting shall be specified for a date no longer than seven days in case of the procession or public demonstration or five days in a case of a public meeting. I think the seven days period is too long for people who would want to express their issues to the Government.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, if you notice this issue
is a repetition because it is there on 7 (a) and (b), even 1 (a) and (b) it has seven and five days and it was debated thoroughly. They are simply reminding you of what we agreed earlier.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. SEN. ZIYAMBI): It simply
says, we have given notice of seven days, within those seven days, rather than the convenor to say I have received information about a bomb. We can hold a meeting after the day you wanted to demonstrate. It is emphasising that the meeting must be held within the notice period, just that. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Clause 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Mr. Chairman, somebody referred
to, we need to cover spontaneous demonstrations and I suggest that there be a clause there which says that, it shall be a defence that the demonstration was spontaneous, it was unplanned. It was a reaction to popular anger. If you look at the Labour Relations Act, if there is threat to safety, they can go to strike without notice but there may arise a situation where it is irresponsible for citizens to keep quiet and we need to cover that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. SEN. ZIYAMBI): Thank
you Mr. Chairman. I understand and I hear Hon. Sen. Mwonzora very well. It is very difficult to legislate for spontaneity to say that we are now going to put it there. It is very dangerous also to say we are excluding spontaneous demonstrations for the simple reason that the day we do that, every demonstration will be spontaneous. If you go to the powers of the police, sometimes when you have not given notice, the police may, in case of a regulating authority not receiving a notice in terms of Section 7 (1), of more than 48 hours before the gathering restrict, tell you okay, you are demonstrating. We notice you are peaceful but do not use this route because there are people there who are doing something. Then they guide for the maintenance of peace. I think spontaneous demonstrations have not been banned but for us to put on the schedule that a spontaneous demonstration is excluded from this, we cannot do that. Every demonstration becomes spontaneous. I submit Mr. Chairman.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
On Clause 10:
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Clause 10 prohibits gatherings near
Parliament, courts or other protected areas for example, ZBC and Heroes Acre. This clause finds its routes in a number of Acts that were passed by South Africa during Apartheid to suppress black uprisings. It was obviously directed to quell protest during political trials and against treatment of people under security legislation for example, we have the like of Evan Mawarire, Job Sikhala and many others. It is critical to
note that even the regulations of Public Gatherings Act 205 of 1993 even repealed these laws as archaic and undemocratic yet they still find their way in this Bill and we are in the year 2019 now. Therefore, Clause 10 needs to be removed. I so submit.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: In addition to what my colleague said, I am not repeating what she said. On Clause 10 (1), the issue of radius, I contest that issue. Why do we need to have a radius of as far as 100
metres away from vicinities of certain buildings?
Basically, I think that it affects people’s ability to demonstrate whenever they want to demonstrate in other places. Take for instance here across Parliament, we have the Africa Unity Square where people demonstrate and 20 metres from Parliament, you say it cannot be. I was therefore going to propose that we remove the issue of radius and only deal with the buildings where these protected areas are instead. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I want to
buttress the purpose of demonstration which is to be heard by the person whom you are demonstrating against or you are supposed to irritate the person who you are trying to communicate with so that they pay attention to you.
The proposed distances will only promote being ignored by the person because when you are 100 metres away from the courts or 100 metres from whatever chosen building – the demonstration will be in vain. There will be no purpose because you will not be able to irritate the intended person. Supposing we are demonstrating against the Hon. Speaker, we must irritate him so much that he hears our noise from his office. When we are demonstrating against the Supreme Court or High Court against Chief Justice Malaba, he should hear the noise from outside so that he pays attention to us.
If the demonstration has been applied for and cleared by the police, the distances should be reduced to 10 metres because we need whoever the authority is there to pay attention. The demonstration will be futile if we are far away because there is nothing to fear from people who have sought police clearance and are demonstrating near a building. In most cases police details will be present, so the Hon. Speaker and his building will be safe and the High Court judges will be safe but we want them to engage them on issues that we will be demonstrating on.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chairman then I want to thank the Hon. Members. I want to start with Hon. Timveos, she quote the South African Act.
Again Hon. Chairman, I alluded to the fact that we are also a sovereign nation and we pass our own laws. So if the South Africans in their wisdom saw it fit that they want people to gather within the premises of their Parliaments and courts, so be it – they will do that but it is good for them. My submission Hon. Chairman, is that we will relook at it very soon. A case in point is what happened in Hong Kong when the very same Parliament that they are talking about was stormed by protestors and it is good for them if they believe that they do not need
it.
Coming to Hon. Komichi, I think that getting to within 10 or even a meter to Parliament is not prohibited but you have to inform the Hon. Speaker or the Chief Justice so that the necessary security arrangements are made. I do not see any reason why if people notify and they conduct their gathering in peace a reasonable Speaker will refuse. If you have not notified the Speaker – one Hon. Senator alluded to Africa Unity Square, I believe this is around 20 metres or so and it is very far where people gather. So this provision is very progressive.
We have noticed that terrorists now target these places and Parliament can be targeted. So the provision does not prohibit you from getting closer to Parliament but simply says, seek the permission of the Speaker or the Chief Justice or the Judge President. I submit Hon.
Chairman, that we adopt it as it is. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
Clause 10 put and agreed to.
Clause 11 put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: On the civil liabilities, Mr.
Chairman, most of these things happen as a result of resolutions of political parties. To punish an individual is unfair – it is not serving any purpose. So liability must not go to a single individual. Liability must go to the organisation that the person is representing. For example, an organisation calls for a demonstration and people within that demonstration cause violence. We are punishing the convener and not the organisation itself. An organisation can even make a resolution not to give notice and order the convener to write that. What this law is doing is, it is leaving the organisation and punishing the individual. So liability must go to the organisation and not to the individual because it is a collective thing.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. Chairman, in addition to what Hon. Sen. Mwonzora said, this section promotes misdemeanors because a person who seeks police clearance before a demonstration is an honest person. Meaning, I have good intentions and have no spirit to disrupt peace because I know that I can be arrested for disrupting the peace. So if there are disturbances of any form, I will not be at liable. If I am held liable for the disturbances Hon. Minister, then I will be afraid to apply and go into hiding and you will not have a convener.
Demonstrations can be conducted in the absence of a convener and no one will be accountable for it. The demonstration will still go on without a convener because I am afraid of this civil liability. At least you should not be soiled. So this law should give the police power or the convener should be given more police in order for the demonstration to be more peaceful You are a Minister, please relay this information to the Minister of Home Affairs. For example on Friday, we need about 2000 police officers and we will give them 5000 of our youths who will be ushers who can walk with them so that if there is anybody who comes to disturb the demonstration they can be easily apprehended this Friday. I can tell by the end of the demonstration, we will have taken into custody all the thieves that want to damage property, disturb peace and the people because as a party we do not want a demonstration that involves loss of lives, destruction and looting of shops. No, we do not want that.
So we want this law to give praise to the convener. In the law, there should be a section which mentions the availability of the police to assist the demonstration process in order for it to be peaceful. This Friday we need 2000 police officers and there will be no violence that will take place.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Senators
Mwonzora and Komichi, this clause actually speaks about a convener who has failed to give notice in terms of Section 7 (1) or refuses to comply with any direction after negotiations. This clause is not speaking about an innocent convener. That innocent convener who has complied with everything is insulated from civil liabilities. So, the one that you are describing has no civil liability but that one who has just convened without going to the police and there is commotion and destruction of property is the one we are saying should be held liable by the law and pay for the destruction. If you go to the definition section –
I heard you saying you cannot be held liable as an individual while representing the organisation. It actually states that if you are an appointed agent you go to the regulatory authorities and tell them you have been appointed convener by such and such who want to demonstrate. So it will be very clear that you are representing someone who can be held liable and not you unless proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did things in your own capacity. You were told to go and notify the regulatory authorities and you decided on your own not to do so and they were not involved but this clause is insulating those that have followed the law. They will not face any civil liability. That is what the clause is saying. It is actually a very progressive clause, so I submit Hon Chair.
Clause 12 put and agreed to.
On Clause 13:
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I am looking at Clause 13 (1) (a) and I am seeing that we now have police service. Is that new? I just want clarification.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): In our
Constitution, it is now written Police Service and not Police Force and the regulatory authority is the police. So subsection 13 is restating the powers that the police have.
Clause 13 put and agreed to.
On Clause 14:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Just to highlight on Clause 14 (4) that says, any person who fails to produce his/her identity document within 7 days mentioned in subsection 4 – I guess that was supposed to be subsection 3. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I would also want to seek clarity on the issue of I.Ds. What if you do not have? We saw such people when we were going around.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Let me explain as follows. Whether you have an I.D or not, the police has the right on reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence to arrest you. We cleaned this up and I think it is very reasonable now because any police officer acting in good faith in the course of investigation or preventing an arrestable offence or at the scene or vicinity of commission of an arrestable offence or where there is a police cordon or roadblock, maybe they are looking for a thief and they suspect you are the thief. Some people may say I do not have an I.D even though they have it. This is very reasonable, I submit.
Clause 14 put and agreed to.
Clauses 15 and 16 put and agreed to.
On Clause 17:
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Sorry to take you back, I wanted to
debate Clause 16. You are going too fast.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Usually when something has
been agreed to, we cannot go back. You cannot say I am going fast, you are involving me in the debate. I am just the chairman and I am not debating. I am asking peoplewhether there is any objection.
Clause 17 put and agreed to.
On Clause 18:
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Hon. Chair. This clause is
the worst of all clauses because it creates a military State where there is a slight problem and the President deploys the military. During his time in office, we have seen soldiers getting into the streets confronting people who will be demonstrating twice. What is in the minds of the people of Zimbabwe is whenever demonstrations are being done, the soldiers are involved. We are seeing a transformation from the old dispensation to the new dispensation where we come from a police State into a military State. It gives our country a rogue State element that Zimbabwe is, being policed law and order by the soldiers.
It should be very difficult to deploy soldiers because a soldier is armed with a gun and we have witnessed the use of guns for wrong reasons are plenty, where we have 28 bodies within few months. It does not give us good standing for the President to deploy soldiers. That is why there is a request that soldiers before being deployed, the police should be the ones dealing with those issues. There are certain levels of police like the Support Unit; these can control demonstrations -the Gondo Harishayi cannot fail to control demonstrators. If all these fail, it means there will exchange of gun fire among people and the army can come in. Even before that, the President can call Parliament – like we have done now; it did not take us long to convene after we have been recalled by the President to do so. If the demonstration leads to people maiming each other – our police is very effective, so there is no need for the President to be called even when he is at home to deploy the army to be controlling demonstrations.
If there is need to deploy soldiers, there is need to debate in this Parliament that soldiers are to be deployed. We can put this vote, if we are beaten but we would have added our voices. We are upgrading the President to be a military State President. We want him to be a soldier yet we know him as a civilian. It now looks like President Mnangagwa is a soldier and it affects the investment in the country. It takes away the freedom of the people in the country.
We are foreseeing on Friday, 16th August, 2019 soldiers being deployed all over the country with guns and helicopters flying around. It is not good for the purposes of democracy. It is not good for investment environment but it will not stop the revolutionary spirit. I want to take you back to the 1970s, no matter how tough Ian Douglas Smith was, revolution took its toll. No forms of oppression will stop people from doing what they want. Let us do things which are good for the country. The President should not resort to deploying soldiers, the Support Unit is capable of containing demonstrations. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Hon. Chair. This section
is good. If a demonstration is done peacefully and demonstrators have followed the law, soldiers will not be deployed. Soldiers are deployed through the Commissioner General of the Police who will ask the soldiers to come when he realised that there is violence and that the police are over powered. The soldiers are called to restore peace and order only after the police have failed. Our soldiers are professional they do not just come. They are known world-over that they are professionals. That is why you see that in this country we are at peace, we do not have any war. Our soldiers are doing development works. In my constituency, they have built a primary school because there is no war. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
Chair. As a way of progressing, I want to read the provisions of the Constitution and allow the Hon. Members to tell me how they want it to be couched so that it satisfies the provisions of the Constitution. Section 213 (1) of the Constitution says Deployment of Defence Forces - subject to this Constitution, “only the President, as the Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces has power to authorise the deployment of defence forces or have power to determine the operational use of the defence forces” With the authority of the President, the defence forces may be deployed in Zimbabwe in defence of Zimbabwe and in support of the police service in the maintenance of public order or in support of the police service and other civilian authorities in the event of an emergency or disaster.
I want to go to sub-section 4, that is the clause that speaks about
Parliament’s authority when deployment has occurred outside
Zimbabwe. In Zimbabwe, the section is saying you cause Parliament to be informed but outside Zimbabwe when you have done that by a twothirds majority, Parliament has to vote to approve or rescind. So, I want Hon. Members to give me a wording that will satisfy this requirement. I thank you.
Clauses 17 to 21 put and agreed to.
On Clause 22;
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: This clause usurps the powers of
Parliament to amend the schedule in the Act without approaching Parliament. The clause contravenes Section 134 (a) of the Constitution insofar as this seeks to delegate the legislative powers to the Minister. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): If there is a
clause that this Parliament has passed that is extremely good is this one. The Constitution gives Ministers powers to enact subsidiary legislation for as long as the legislation is consistent with the enabling Act. It is there is in the Constitution and you can check the Constitution. If you find that Ministers are not empowered to do that then I will scrape this but further to that if you read it carefully it says ‘subject to subsection 2, the Minister may by notice in a Statutory Instrument at any time add to, amend or replace the schedule’. Then subsection 2 says ‘where the Minister seeks to amend the schedule by reducing the classes of public gatherings described in the schedule, the Minister shall’, preemptory you do not have a choice. You cannot turn right or left ‘within the next 14 days on which Parliament sits after he or she makes a Statutory
Instrument in terms of subsection 1 lay before Parliament. The Statutory
Instrument shall not come into force unless approved by a resolution of
Parliament’. Let me explain the process as it currently obtains with other instruments. The moment I pass it becomes law and the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) will sit while it is in force. When PLC sits on behalf of Parliament and says it is unconstitutional that is when it may be withdrawn. It will only come to the House when PLC says it is unconstitutional then they will say we have received an Adverse Report on this Statutory Instrument. This one we are not even subtracting. The Minister is allowed to give you more freedom. Where he wants to take the freedoms away you do not even need to refer to PLC but has to come to the House for you to pass a resolution. I submit that it is one of the best clauses in this Bill. I thank you Hon. Chair.
Clause 22 to 23 put and agreed to.
On Clause 24;
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: On page 1, that new clause was not
inserted in the list of sections.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you.
Point taken. It is an omission.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I want to thank you Hon. Sen. I think you have really applied your mind and managed to see everything between lines. The Minister actually complimented you on
that.
Clause 24 put and agreed to.
Schedule put and agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Before you
report Hon. Chair, I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone. When I came in here I was hoping that by four we would be done with this Bill. I enjoyed the robust debate from both sides of the House and some contributions that were very good with Hon. Sen. Mwonzora coming up with some very good observations and Hon. Sen. Mpofu. Thank you very much Hon. Members for your dedication and time that you spent on this Bill. Thank you Hon. Chair.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
SECOND READING
FINANCE (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 13, 2019]
First Order read: Second reading: Finance (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 13, 2019].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President Sir, the
Bill seeks to give effect to the fiscal measures that I announced through the Mid Term Fiscal Policy Review Statement delivered on the 1st of August, 2019 and in particular, avail relief to taxpayers through adjustment of tax rates as well as enhance revenue generation capacity taking into account the recent economic developments.
The Finance Bill basically seeks to project the Supplementary Budget and the Statement accompanying it in a way that shows that we are sensitive to the economic plight of our citizens. First of all, it recognises that we do face inflationary pressures and it also recognises the fact that we need to increase social spending. It recognises that we need to increase allocation to agriculture because it all overlaps with the whole notion of social protection. The Statement and the Bill also seek to recognise that we need to support the productive sectors of our economy such as the mining sector for example, where we have made sure that the royalties are tax deductible. It seeks to give further tax breaks and to maintain the tax breaks and rebates around the manufacturing sector and we are able to account and let the Members of the House know which companies have benefitted from those rebates.
The Statement and the Finance Bill also seek to make sure that those who are earning $700 and below do not pay any income tax. We have raised the threshold from $350 to $700. What we have also done is to make sure that we expand the definition of a financial institution under the intermediated money transfer tax because we have noticed that there are certain players in the market who have decided to play in the parallel market. Once they are licenced by mobile money operators, they are able to play in that parallel market without oversight and regulation. So, we have made sure that at least they pay their dues in terms of the 2% intermediated money transfer tax but also they need to be regulated
better.
We have also expanded the definition of a mineral beyond what we already know to include the uncut and cut dimensional stones, basically granite at quarry mining. Then also, we have sought to bring into line with price increases and certain fees that are payable including toll fees, including other fees to Government. Those of you who are in the gold sector, have sought to kind of regularise things to eliminate any arbitrage between small to large gold miners but at the same time, made sure that the royalties also are linked to the gold price. So, if the gold price is below US$1200 per ounce, the royalty is 3% and above that global price threshold it is 5%.
Mr. President, we have also decided to obviously through this to amend the Reserve Bank Act to deal with the issue of introduction of the RTGS dollar and then the Zimbabwe dollar which combines the RTGS dollar, the bond note and then the bond coins as well to regularise issues around our sole transaction currency locally as you will realise that we are trying to make sure that we are in line with Statutory Instrument 142 which declares the Zimbabwe dollar as the sole legal tender within our borders and therefore abolish the multi-currency regime. In short, this is the Finance Bill and we want to make sure that it is people oriented; it is pro-poor and also make sure that we keep developing our financial sector and move with the times in terms of restoring monetary policy and not just fiscal policy which we have been walking on for over a decade.
Mr. President, I now move that the Finance (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 13,
2019] be read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forth with.
COMMITTEE STAGE
FINANCE (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 13, 2019].
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 12 put and agreed to.
On Clause 13:
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Can the Hon. Minister clearly state which funds are going to devolution here because it is not very clear to some of us who are not fundis in finance.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): The budget for
devolution was increased from $310 million to $703 million – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – it is in the Appropriation Bill.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, this is not an
Appropriation Bill.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Hon. Chairman, I wanted to understand and to be educated so that when I talk to anybody, I will understand what I will be talking about. I believed that those figures must be shown in this Bill because it shows the expenditure. Some of us would want to know when that Appropriation Bill will be coming.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I think you could be reading a
different copy of the Bill. Is that the Finance No. 2 Bill or it is the Appropriation Bill with figures?
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Yes, Appropriation.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: It is coming after this; this is called Finance No. 2 Bill. Thank you for that and look for the correct document.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I just wanted to find out, where was this Bill inserted because I did not find it in my pigeon hole neither did any of my colleagues? – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Please give him the
opportunity to express himself, he said he had not seen the Appropriation Bill; some have it whilst some do not have.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The one that you are going through, I do not have and even my colleagues seem not to have received anything in their pigeon holes.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Some have it whilst others do
not have, that is for the Administration of Parliament. We are being told that it was distributed in the pigeon holes – [HON. SENATORS: It was not there] – it is not there? – [HON. SENATORS: Yes.] – Alright] – those who have the Bill, where did they got it from? I am being advised that the copies were distributed at the time the Supplementary Budget was presented to the National Assembly, which is about two weeks before now. There is an assumption that some of you carried the documents and carried them somewhere.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I hear a lot of mention about the National Assembly. We are the Senate and we must get all these documents – [AN HON. MEMBER: I got the document.] – Madam that document that you are saying you got it is wrong, I see you.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: You are not chairpersons, do
not just interject. I am the only Chair here do not answer, I will answer. Hon. Sen. Timveos, thank you for reminding us that we are the Senate and the National Assembly is different from us. They are not here today and we are here is that not it? However, the point was not that the National Assembly gave us the documents, we are saying, the same time that the Budget was presented at the National Assembly is when the document was distributed to all of us.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Point of order Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that the documents would not have been distributed to us before the National Assembly concluded their business. The National Assembly finished with the documents and they are now being distributed to us.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: The Administration might
help me on that one but that is not the procedure. When the Bills are published, they do not hold them from Senate until the National
Assembly had finished with them, they are distributed to everyone. We are all given the documents – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order. If there is an amendment, that is then brought to us as an extra copy where one receives the original and an extra copy of amendments. So, it is not true that they finish with the documents first, we are all given at the same time.
Anyway, let us make progress. This Bill intends to iron out financial issues which we are also interested in so that we also get something in terms of supplementary budget and all the other things that we are aggrieved of. So, it is not a very bad document, it is harmless because it is a supplementary budget and ensures that some of our problems that require financing are ironed out. If we can pass this Bill so that we all proceed, it is good for us.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I do not think it is proper for us to just go through without following what it is that is in the Supplementary Budget. My understanding is that I do not think the Hon. Members have it. The only thing that is in the pigeon hole is the
Appropriation Bill. Last week, the Senate adjourned on Wednesday when the National Assembly was debating the Budget. We never went to our pigeon holes – [HON. SENATORS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order. She is talking sense, give here some time.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: We never went to our pigeon holes to collect anything, we went today but there is nothing.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: In English they say do not
throw away the baby with the bath water; that there is the issue of procedure and we did not see the document, let us not throw the baby away because the baby symbolises the benefits we will get if this Bill sails through. I am humbly requesting you, though some things were done in my absence, I am in the Chair and have to ensure progress is made. The purpose of the Finance Bill is to ensure that financial figures that are provided for in the Appropriation Bill are released. So, it is a confirmation of the figures in the Appropriation Bill and we request that we sail it through the Senate, it is harmless and provides us with finances.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I went to the Papers Office and signed for the document.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I think she is right, she went
to the Papers Office, that is where the Bill is found.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mine was in the pigeon hole.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very
much. I think to be honest, when we adjourned last week, I actually stayed around because I knew were going to debate these Bills. However, they were not delivered into our pigeon holes. It is an omission or an error, whatever it is but the reality is for us to proceed, they have to accept that mistake they made, then we can move forward. For them to keep on saying it was there when it was not there – I was coming every day, it does not work.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Doctor, you are a true doctor
because what you said is good and progressive. I apologise on their behalf. As the Chair, I will remonstrate with them. I will take them to task as they have disgraced me on an issue that has no bearing on me.
Clauses 13 to 14 put and agreed to.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Let me be honest, these
clauses have to do with the Finance Bill that was there before and so now we are doing the Supplementary Budget. We have no option. If we do not go through with this now, it means we will have to come back some time in September while funds remain not released for the country to use. So let us just pass the Supplementary Budget.
Clause 15 put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. DR. MAVETERA: Mr. Chairman, with all due
respect, I think we are reducing this House to a circus. We cannot continue with something which we have not seen. They should give us that copy. We can come tomorrow and discuss – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- It does not make sense; if you ask us to come and debate on something we have not seen. It is not procedural. We cannot follow that. We cannot allow that to happen. Do not reduce us to children.
This is an august House where we are passing things which affect the whole populace, so you cannot just drag us. You are playing kindergarten stuff in this august House and we cannot allow that. Give us the papers, we will come tomorrow and read if it is important. We do not vote for something which is procedurally wrong. Why do you vote for something which you do not have? We cannot allow it. You cannot drag us like children who do not know what we are doing. We are wasting people’s money here playing. We cannot allow that to happen. Give us, we will come tomorrow and debate it otherwise you are reducing us to useless people – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
This is exactly what you are doing unless you do not know what you are and I will stand here and say that I will never allow it, we have not seen it. I have got a right to be given that document and study it. I represent a lot of people. I have got a constituency where I have to be answerable. If they see that this is what I am doing, do you think they will like it? We cannot do that. So Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, we want the document. Give us time, we will read it. We cannot operate a country with errors.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: I thank Hon. Sen. Dr.
Mavetera for what he is saying, but doctor if you have a patient that is ill and needs an operation, you give that patient morphine before the operation but if you do not have the morphine you go ahead with the operation without the morphine so that your patient’s life is saved. I am now speaking in medical terms – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]-
Give them copies of the Bill so that we have progress. Hon. Sen.
Dr. Mavetera, order! Not that we are undermining you, Sen. Dr. Mavetera. What you have said is brilliant and accepted but the circumstances that we find ourselves in are such that it may work against us if we raise these technicalities and the spirit is that we are adjourning as you know to some unknown date in September and we would not want then to frustrate efforts to try and mobilise resources so that the people of Zimbabwe, including parliamentarians can gain out of that sooner than later. We are pleading with you that we make progress. We agree that a mistake was made and next time they should not repeat this. We have given Sen. Timveos a copy of the Bill so that she can refer to
it.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I think as long as it is put on record that all these agreements are not real agreements because we have not seen the document, I think I will be okay with it – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- because I cannot agree to a document that I have not seen.
*THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: No, let us proceed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Members, these are numbers. We cannot control numbers. Can we move forward?
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Now that the Chief Whip has spoken,
Mr. President, I think we can proceed now.
Clauses 13 to 25 put and agreed to.
Schedule put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendment.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
SECOND READING
FINANCE (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 13, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOMENT (PROF. M. NCUBE) Mr. President, I now move that
the Bill be read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Third reading: With leave forthwith.
THIRD READING
FINANCE (NO. 2) BILL [H. B. 13, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE) Mr. Chairperson, I now
move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 12, 2019]
Second order read: Second Reading: Appropriation
(Supplementary) Bill [H. B. 12, 2019].
THE MINISTEROF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President Sir, on the 1st of August, 2019, I presented to the National Assembly the 2019 Supplementary Estimates amounting to RTGS10,23 billion broken down as Consolidated Revenue Fund of RTGS10.07 billion and the retention funds of RTGs 0.16 billion. The purpose of the Bill is to give effect to the Supplementary 2019 expenditures that were presented to the
National Assembly. I seek approval to the supplementary budget of
RTGS10.23 billion broken down as Consolidated Revenue Fund of RTGS10.07 billion and Retention Fund as RTGS 0.16 billion to cater for additional provisions and reforms mainly related to the following areas;
- The stimulation of production targeting agriculture, industry and other productive sectors.
- Food security issues including grain procurement to mitigate the effects of drought conditions and the funding of the 2019/2020 summer cropping programmes.
- The welfare of civil servants, pensioners, Members of Parliament and Senators.
- To cover social services and delivery and social production of our vulnerable members of society.
- To cover vital infrastructure development and utilities and support but also we want to be able to cover through the supplementary budget constitutional requirements including the transfer to provinces in terms of the devolution budget.
- We want to cover certain structural and governmental reforms by supporting the statutory bodies that deal with these reforms.
- To support general Government operations but also to make sure that we deal with the tax threshold adjustments in terms of the tax that impacts our citizens.
The supplementary expenditures being proposed are however designed in a way that they are in line with increased revenues and will be implemented without compromising fiscal discipline and accepting set fiscal targets. To accommodate the additional requirements, I have revised the 2019 budget of RTGS6.89 billion taking into account additional expenditures of RTGS 10.23 billion to bring the total budget to RTGS 17.13 billion and this is excluding the retentions. The total appropriation amount exclude constitutional statutory appropriation such as pension, interest and inter-governmental fiscal transfers which when included would result in overall expenditures of RTGs 18.62 billion. I am therefore, presenting the supplementary estimates for 2019 and the accompanying Appropriation (Supplementary) 2019 Bill [H.B. 12, 2019] for consideration of approval by Hon. Senators.
Mr. President, I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 12, 2019] House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 3 put and agreed to.
On Clause 4:
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The Minister of Finance is on record saying that we have a surplus. Why do we need to increase these numbers on this day especially the Retention Fund? Could we not take it from surplus?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): We have done our
projections. We know that in terms of the previous budget, we are going to run down the surplus beyond what we are trying to do here. This is to accommodate that expected expenditure. That is why for a start we are having a supplementary and then we will exhaust the surplus. Our projection is that by year end, we will be in deficit but we will make sure that we will stay within our target of 4% of GDP and not go beyond that. If we do that, we will have messed up our financial management. We have no intention of doing that. I thank you.
Clause 4 put agreed to.
Clause 5 put and agreed to.
On Schedule:
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I am looking at Vote 13. Sometime ago, I stood up to ask a question concerning devolution and also if there is anything that has got to do with devolution. There was a budget that was done before – in November 2018 and it was implemented from January. Devolution has not taken route in all the provinces. The people that were elected as officials for the provincial councils have not been sworn in. Where is that money that we allocated in the 2018 Budget? We are now in August. Have you allocated any money here? If you have allocated money, what happened to the money that we allocated because of the reasons that I stated?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): The distribution of
the devolution resources is as follows; 25% is allocated to a provincial level, 75% is allocated at district level. At district level because we have the enabling structures and so forth, we have moved quite fast. Right now, we have something like $250 million in terms of what has been disbursed and the projects have already been identified and they are being executed. We know we will run out of money but the 25% at provincial level – that is the issue you are raising. That issue requires further legislation. The Minister of Justice can explain. That has not been properly disbursed. It will be disbursed once the legislation and the swearing in of officials is put in place. It is coming and I think I can seek support from the Minister of Justice in terms of timing but we do not think it is an impediment for us in Finance because we have allocated resources.
Let me come to the Supplementary Budget in terms of additional resources. If you recall in the first Budget, we allocated $310 million. It says in the Constitution that we should allocate 5% of whatever Budget. Given our new budget, that 5% now translates to $703 million. That is what we have allocated through the supplementary and we want to disburse that as fast as possible to get the projects on the ground going. With your indulgence, may be the Minister of Justice could add on the legislation at provincial level. At district level, we are alright and I am happy to come back to this august House and tell you district by district what has been allocated and the expenditure part. We have the information.
At the back of the Blue Book, there is a First Schedule entitled
‘Inter-Governmental Fiscal Transfers’. It has got all the allocations
district by district and province by province.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Hon.
Minister of Finance has indeed clearly stated the position as it is. The Constitution obliges us to come up with a law to give effect to the devolution process but we have also noticed that there are inconsistencies even within the Constitution. We are in the process of coming up with a Constitutional Amendment Bill to cater for a lot of things. I could have brought it but I was mindful that a Constitution is not a document that you make piece-meal amendments. We have a process that also entail that we also look at some provisions of the
Constitution in terms of the political and electoral reforms that we are undertaking. So I delayed a little bit in tabling that amendment so that we have a holistic approach in dealing with it.
I can cite one example that we felt we might need to amend in the Constitution. If we look into the Constitution, it speaks about delimitation occurring after a census. Our census is scheduled to take place in 2022. If we are to comply with that provision, it means we will wait for the census in 2022 to be undertaken and completed. Once it is completed, then we have to do the delimitation. If you look at the timelines, it would mean the delimitation process will suffer because we will be very close to 2023. We need to delink the two. That is one example that I have given.
For us to bring an amendment to cater for devolution alone, we agonised and we said let us complete the whole process of what we are doing and bring just one omnibus amendment to the Constitution so that we do not have piece-meal amendments. I thank you Hon. Chair.
*HON. SEN. PHUTHI: I have heard the Minister say that the people who earn $350-$700 are not going to be taxed. I would like to know which tax he was referring to. I would also like to know if he is going to come back to the House again requesting that civil servants be given increments again because civil servants are affected by the tax regime. I have noticed that most of the workers have been removed from the taxpaying bracket and the bulk of these are civil servants fall in the non-tax paying bracket. Are we not going to be recalled earlier than expected to come and craft a Bill, increasing salaries to taxable levels
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): I must say it was in
the previous Bill that we have passed but perhaps it would be a good idea to respond. Yes, the threshold has now been increased from $350 to $700, the Hon. Senator has asked if we will not come back to ask for more but why not? There is nothing wrong and the $700 by the way, we did some research, we consulted all the important National Employment Councils, this $700 figure came from them to say look, we think that it is a fair figure. However, if in four months when we come back to present the Budget end of November, if we need to raise it we will raise it and again we will produce the scientific evidence as to why it should be raised. You asked about which tax it is – it is the income tax, the P.A.Y.E.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I just want to add my voice to Vote 17 which talks about women affairs, community, and small and medium enterprises development. Today it is Stembiso Nyoni; tomorrow it is someone else whomwe do not know. This Ministry always has got a very low budget; I do not know whether it is by design or by what. Taking into consideration that we want to empower women and youths, this budget is always very low. Can you clarify?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: I thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for the
comment and question. Actually, what you see here is quite an improvement from what we had initially and we had a robust debate in the National Assembly and we moved things up. I want to be specific, we targeted the women’s micro-finance bank and we put in an additional $14 million on its capitalization so we could increase the loans for businesses initiated by female members of our society. We also increase the capitalisation of the Youth Empowerment Bank to $15 million as well. So, doubling the capitalisation of these two banks, that is the action that we took again after consultations with the Ministry and other individuals who are keen on this sector. I must say what is not in the Budget is some of the robust discussions we are having when it comes to the whole issue of SME’s because the Ministry is willing and the SME’s in general how these can be supported. Last week, I went with Hon. Nyoni, in fact she dragged me along, I think she grabbed my earlobe literally and said we must go and visit the SME’s who are in Cameroon street. I was actually amazed, about 1000 people operating from there, it is mainly women, they are sewing quality dresses and other textile products which are being exported to Mozambique and Angola – I am just extending my answer but, I just want to show that the issue around the SME’s we are continuously debating this.
If you come to how we are supporting industrialisation, we have launched a $40 million dollar national venture fund. I mentioned it in this House before that we are going to do it. We have finally done it in this Supplementary Budget and a portion of that will be allocated towards SME’s which really support a constituency within this Ministry. So, we will continue to buttress our resources to boost whatever this Ministry is all about and it is about very important things around women and SME’s and so forth.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: On Vote 4, Defence and War
Veterans. I just want to thank the Minister of Finance that in his
Supplementary Budget he injected $12.3 million to war veterans. However, we hope that when the economy of country has recovered, you are going to do something better because these people have suffered a lot. We want our war veterans who brought freedom to our country to have a good welfare. I thank you.
HON. PROF M NCUBE: I thank the Hon. Senator for those
compliments, I agree with her that this is an important constituency within our community, within our population and we are grateful for their sacrifice, we would not all be here if it were not for them. Last week, we had a robust debate in the Lower House and I agreed to top up with an additional $15 million to the War Veterans Administration Fund to cater for health, school fees and other welfare issues. An issue was raised around other benefits such as making sure that the war veterans can import vehicles duty free. We undertook that we will look into this matter and see how we can progress it, it is on the table. One thing that I was asked to investigate is how many war veterans are able in terms of their RTGS or ZWL resources import cars in the first place and then we work out if it is within our budgetary envelope in terms of the duties we will fore-go. So, we are amenable to receiving almost case by case application representations on this issue but we will continue to look at other ways to support our war veterans and find solutions. I thank you.
Schedule put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
APPROPRIATION (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL [H. B. 12, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. President, I
move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, the House adjourned at Twenty-
Seven Minutes to Eleven o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 27th August, 2019.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th August, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May I
remind Hon. Senators to please switch off your cellphones or put them on silent.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST
PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that Order of
the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the protection of the environment and the use of natural resources.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I also want to add my voice to this very important motion which concerns our lives. It is very essential for each one of us to protect the environment because the environment that we live in does not grow but instead, us as people are the ones who grow because we bear children and the children bear their own children, whereas the environment stands still. If we do not take care of that environment, it means that the generations to come will never realise how beautiful their country was if we do not protect it. Before we protect the environment, we should also know the causes of how the environment is degraded.
There are a lot of things that cause degradation such as veld fires, soil erosion, mere cutting down of trees, droughts, landslides, cyclones, water and air pollution as well as mining. These are the root causes of destroying the environment. What should we do? How should we mitigate all those issues that I have just talked about? There is need for us as human beings, mostly to make sure we do not just burn fires randomly like that.
As I speak, if you go out where there are grasses, everything is being burnt. For what reasons? We do not know. Others just make fires whenever they want to clear new fields and sometimes living that fire burning and it burns the whole country. Those who are within those areas do not even mind and just pass by watching the veld being burnt. There is need for us to educate each other and there should be massive education especially in the communal areas to see that fires are not just burnt everywhere. I would also urge our traditional leaders to have a certain fine for those who are found causing veld fires.
Mr. President, we also have the issue of water pollution. You find that we have a lot of work to do. These days we eat these junk foods and the remnants are found thrown along the roadsides whereby you just eat and after eating, you throw it out through the window and go on, not even caring where you threw that piece of paper, especially the plastics that are just thrown all over the show. They take their time to rot and as a result, when rains come, those plastics are all carried to the rivers thereby polluting the water.
Also, you find that as we go into our irrigation schemes Mr. President, whenever we buy chemicals and apply them in the fields. All the residues from the fields are taken to the rivers, polluting our rivers and the fish in there are the target at the end of the day because as long as they take that polluted water, they will obviously die. Those who live in town will bear witness to the sewages that are not protected – there is
Manyame River which we cross always when we are about to get to Harare coming from my constituency. That river is so polluted Mr.
President. Whenever you are approaching that river, there is a very stinky smell coming from that river as a result of the pollution. Also, as you get to Chivero Dam, it is all a disaster. There is need for us to take care of all these things that I am talking about.
We also have another greatest enemy which is the air pollution whereby we have gases and air emissions of fuel that go up into the ozone layer which is broken and as a result we have no water and we have cyclones. The air is polluted and as the ozone layer breaks you will find that we have cyclones, climate and our environment is failing.
Mr. President, I can name a lot of them and you will find that our rivers are polluted and miners just dig everywhere where they think there is a mineral that is to be extracted from the soil leaving those pit holes just like that. At the end of the day, the top soil is washed away and only those holes remain which are also a trap to our animals. When they move around for grazing they fall into those pits and die. Even people, if they walk nearer to those pits their legs are broken and so on. The environment itself is badly affected and that happens, I said earlier on that this environment that we are living in does not expand and it will never expand and so, we have to take care of it.
Let me end by saying that as legislators, we should not only talk about the environment here in this august House. We have a lot of work to do because we have to go and educate our communities. The information that we are giving here should descent to our communities so that they protect our environment.
With this few words, I would rather suggest that those who are found on the wrong side of the law, I mean the perpetrators, should be heavily punished. There should be a jail term for them so that we protect our environment. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion that was moved by Hon. Sen. Chifamba. I think since this House is the Upper House, if we notice that certain things are going wrong we should enforce laws to curb such actions. I think we should return the control of the environment to the traditional leaders. I grew up in rural areas whereby when village heads were summoned by traditional leaders to tell them to inform people to stop doing something, the people would comply. It now looks like the chiefs are seeing people putting down trees and they ignore; people digging pits in people’s fields and leaving them open and they do not care. As we are speaking, people burn bushes as if we are saying go and burn the bushes yet we are saying it is bad. All our road sides are ablaze in fire, I do not know what kind of law should be enacted. I also do not know what EMA is doing because they are supposed to mann our environment and stop people from destroying the environment.
You would even see piles of firewood along our highways. I do not know what we should do as this august House because it is very disturbing. You would realise that someone who had one or three cattle has nothing because they all fell in the ditches that are left open by the artisanal miners. I once said that those who are licenced to mine, are they really qualified to do that or they are just scrambling for something they are not well versed with. They have no respect, even for someone’s field, they just dig if they suspect that there is a mineral. One woman said her field was destroyed and the people were saying they were after their mineral which passed through her field, meaning to say a portion of that woman’s field was taken by the artisanal miners. They would leave a pit there and they take what they want. I do not know what to do with this motion because nothing is changing, even if we shout out to say stop burning grass and cutting down trees, it is becoming even worse.
It could be the cause of low rainfall patterns in this country because we no longer respect our traditional leaders. It is said in the Bible that there are people who will do bad things and we have broken most of these things. When I was coming here, I used Chegutu Road. There were burning fires from both sides of the road. Some people were removing grass along the fence, trying to prevent that fire to encroach into their fields so that their cattle can have grass to feed on. Some people right now are counting trees so that when time for the wild fruits called mazhanje comes they will reap and sell them. We know that we are suffering in this country but there is need to enforce laws that are effective, not just to talk and leave it like that. If we can enact effective laws, we should not go back and forth.
Forgive me Mr. President, let us return the powers to the traditional leaders so that they can help us on the issues of our environment and animal feeds which are being destroyed by people. With these few words I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President for
giving me this opportunity to contribute on a motion by Sen. Chifamba. This motion is as emotional on its own as we should be as legislators and probably as Central Government. Why I say that is because everything is managed in the world. Right now, people drink alcohol; they smoke and all those things are pollution but they are managed because you have to manage your body, then you manage what you are doing. What is lacking in this process, I see we are bemoaning ourselves to say, what can we do? I will repeat Mr. President, last time I said, where are the Ministers? They bring the law into this Parliament; we have been debating these topics – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – where are the Ministers who are mentioned here to take notes at least once.
I have never seen the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing in this Senate but we are just talking. There is a Minister of Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry, I do not know whether she has been here but we are talking about critical issues – [AN HON. SENATOR: She is in prison.] – She is in prison? I am sorry; I hope she did not burn the community. Anyway, what we are talking about Mr. President, this is a serious topic where I feel that the Environmental Management Agency (EMA) itself was created in good faith but is it being managed by the relevant Ministry and by us who have an oversight role to ensure they are doing the correct thing?
The present topic is ease of doing business but the biggest polluters and destroyers are mining entities. People go and scratch the ground but they get protected when they do the wrong thing. The EMA officials end up maybe getting a bribe and doing nothing. So, we might empower a community that does not understand us. The biggest enemy we have
in the country is the attitude of Central Government towards poverty – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – a person is going to hunt for a mouse because of hunger. He ends up burning grass to chase the mouse the other side because there is no food. I am saying everything must be managed and I am not saying anyone created poverty. However, the purpose of the Government and our purpose when we read our prayer here, we are supposed to govern correctly.
Wherever you go, a human being always presides over the rest of the community or natural resources. Whilst we might want to say do not sell this or that, the first pollution is here in Harare. What is happening in Robert Mugabe Road is like people protesting that ‘Mugabe gave us poverty.’ They are always in the streets selling. They are selling, throwing tomatoes and doing everything. You cannot protect an environment on a poor community, it is not easy. I sympathise with our chiefs because they might want to stop people from cutting trees but they have no fuel. We used to go and get what is called chimutarara if you know it until the food is ready and then we eat. We would be happy and we were told not to cut certain trees. However, when we cut trees for our survival, are we replenishing them? I am saying, we must go all out to ensure that we protect our environment and there will always be a cycle in environments, the reason why there is the word called habitat. We are part of the habitat, we are not any different from animals when it comes to feeding on each other.
We must work and ensure that we manage other animals because that is how we were created. We were created in the image of God and we pray in that image. We are supposed to do things which are just and bring dignity to the human society. All these things we are reading here do not bring dignity to our people. I will give examples of pollution; water pollution – there is not a single river which has not been polluted. Mr. President, when we were growing up; I do not know where you grew up but we used to say mvura haina n’anga and we would drink in any well. However, today you do not know who would have poured oil or cyanide in every stream you come across. People think they are surviving but they are throwing cyanide and it kills wild animals, our cattle and our children.
Right now, we are polluting the lake as said by the previous speaker. If you cross Manyame River, the first thing you meet is a stench as you cross over to Masvingo side and that is a result of pollution coming from upstream. If you want to go for recreation at Chivero, there is a stench and this has been on for many years. If you read history, it started around 1965 and people had to redesign their sewage plan so that they treat the water in the lake because they could not move Harare out of the position which it is in. So, we need to ‘deeutrophicate’ these lakes.
Although we are waiting for the grave, we cannot be moved because we think we are settled but we have to move the pollution we are putting down there. We also need to move the pollution by making sure that we provide the relevant resources. You cannot get something without working for it. For you to own a house, you have to build it.
Even if you say God will intervene, He will not intervene when you do not cook your food and expect it to come miraculously. We have to work on making sure that we improve this society – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I want to challenge…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Mudzuri, try as much as possible to stick to one language.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. President but you know what? The multiplicity of languages makes it more interesting because there are certain old people who want to hear what I am saying. There is no interpretation, so when I think they will be enjoying this speech I put in quotes – [Laughter.] – I will try my best. Thank you Mr. President. Anyway, we need to work and make sure EMA does its work but the first person who should do their work is the Central Government. If the Central Government continues to be on a demonstration against its people by not correcting the economic situation, we are not going anywhere. We will continue to see people killing wild animals, burning grass looking for mice and having all this air pollution we are talking about.
In Zimbabwe, we might not concern ourselves much about air pollution because we are not highly populated. We can still use our coal mines to run our mines because the level of pollution – we have to go to science and assess ourselves. We might have to use our coal to ensure that we get productive but we have to manage that pollution. Wherever we want to do a project, you have to go through EMA but today your biggest problem is that if you send your project to EMA, it will go after 30 days. They ask you to pay 2% for whatever they want to assess, the cost of the project you want to do. After 30 days they will not have done much, they will say you have submitted your report but maybe you have left some things and have to resubmit and pay another 2%.
It becomes a game.
I am asking this because this Government and us as Parliament, we have to check on each other. Once we do that, that EMA officer needs a bribe and no longer does his job but looks for a bribe to make sure that you do not pay and make him reduce the days. Our EMA officers need to do their work, we are talking of the ease of doing business. I want to ask the chiefs, if we can ask them outside this place on whether the EMA officers are doing their work in rural areas. I will be honest with you; they are supposed to teach people rather than punish them. They are supposed to teach people that after cutting a tree, they should plant another one. Is that not correct? If you want firewood, the chiefs might say cut this area and leave another for planting. That is how we should manage the environment and not leave people with no fuel to use.
If you go to certain areas like Chivi, there is no more firewood, no trees or rainfall and there is nothing. The people living there need to be moved to a place where the habitat can contain them. So, environmental friendliness, yes, no more selling of fruits, no more pollution by burning grass randomly, but we have to manage first at the top going down to the policemen who arrest the person who has polluted. So everyone, we need to change the society, we need to train our society to love their country. We need also to condemn our friends if they do wrong. I want to be condemned for doing wrong and try to correct myself.
Our society has always been good at that. That is why when we were growing up, we would swim with ladies, but no one would get pregnant. That would be the time when people would get married as virgins and there was this Chimanda. I do not know the English word for Chimanda, but it was given for that person who was married a virgin. Today it is no longer there although people have long dresses – people were almost naked when we were young. So I am saying, it is what we do as a people and how we manage our environment.
Thank you Mr. President. I hope the Government comes to act and the Ministers get this concern through your office, Mr. President, that we are tired of debating in their absence.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to congratulate Sen. Chifamba for such a motion. Mr. President, if I really knew that Parliament is a place where one can debate for 12 months on one subject and get no result, surely I would have wasted my time coming to Parliament.
It is serious, Mr. President, that we as Members of Parliament can debate for six months on one subject or even 12 months and get no results. We are making this Parliament a place where we can continuously debate on a subject that we cannot conclude and come up with an answer. I fail to understand why we are not getting responses from the Ministers where debates of such important matters are done.
That is the life of this country and we are getting no answer.
I have been listening to Senators in the past complaining about this august House debating on matters that we cannot get results out of. What is the point of continuously debating on things that we cannot get results? We fail to understand that. We need Ministers, maybe it is up to Standing Rules and Orders that has not got enough…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Sen.
Gumpo, order. Are you debating the motion or you are raising a fresh point about absence of Ministers?
HON. SEN. GUMPO: I am debating Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Debating
which motion?
HON. SEN. GUMPO: The environment. Sorry Mr. President, I have been overrun by emotions.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: You will
debate. The issue of absence of Ministers is an issue which has been raised over and over again and as the leadership – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – If you comment before I finish speaking what do you want me to do, whoever it is?
It is an issue which the leadership of Parliament takes very seriously. It is an issue which has been raised and we have stated, as leadership of Parliament, that when we debate, for example the
President’s address to Parliament, there are aspects in that presentation which the President makes to Parliament, his speech, which each and every Minister must come and respond to after Members of Parliament have debated and we are on record as having stated the fact that
Ministers have not come to do that.
So, you have made your point and it is now time to debate the motion as raised by Hon. Chifamba.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. My motion is definitely on environment which has been brought into this august
House by a number of Senators. I have read the motions from the Lower House as well. It is not only hear, it is all over the place. My biggest worry is that how could we discuss on a matter for so long and get no answer. We need an answer, whether it is the Minister who is going to be answering that or whether it is going to be Parliament itself or the Administration of Parliament, why we have subjects that we can discuss for a long time getting no results. It means that maybe the system is not providing for answers. We are not getting resolutions. We need to have resolutions when we debate on a matter as important as environment. That will decide the future of this country. It depends on the environment.
I personally put in a motion on environment which was on the issue of veld fire. It is exactly the same. It was in December and the same motion is being discussed today, which is environment which is degradation. All the rivers are being silted 100%. All our dams are being silted. Where are we going to get the money to build the dams? We cannot even get money for electricity at the moment, let alone building the dams. If we have no dams, how are we going to be talking about agriculture in this country? It is going to be impossible.
So, the seriousness of attending to these matters by Ministers having to answer back, come back to the Parliament if a debate has been done, they have to give back an answer – come back to us and say a debate that was done six months ago, here is an answer, this is what you have got out of it. If we do not get those answers, what is the point of debating? I have gone as far as consulting the Forest Act. I went to the legal department in the Parliament. I was suspecting that maybe the charges are not good enough, but I have discovered that in the fire problem, there is enough coverage for charges. It is between three months and five years, but how many times have we heard from any court somebody being charged for starting a fire that has been sentenced for five years?
We have never got that, but it is there in the Act. Why is that not happening? Who is answerable to that? We have to answer that as well. We cannot afford as a Government, as Parliament to be debating on a subject of veld fires perpetually. I was called two days ago by someone in Tengwe. They called me as the Senator of that area and they said Senator, about 10 farms have been totally burnt out. There is no grass; there is nothing that has been left. Do we mean that as a Government we cannot stop veld fires? What is Government all about if we cannot stop veld fires? The provisions are there, it means either implementation is not actually taking place or is not even thought of. We cannot afford that in a country like this one.
We are looking at agriculture and now the rivers are being totally silted. I was watching television one day when I saw a dam that is being totally silted somewhere within our country. There is nothing, we cannot even drink water from there. Are we so incapable as a Government that we cannot stop these veld fires? For how long is it going to carry on?
I said in my motion when I debated in December - I come from
Mashonaland West where we had that ZANU-PF conference, you saw the serious situation that was there. I am born in that area, I grew up in that area and I stayed in that area. There was a resettlement that was done by the colonial Government in the early 60s in a beautiful farm that was as good as many other farms like what we have today, but today we are living in that same area and you cannot even see a patch of grass. It is totally degraded.
When I was a small boy, we used to go along the rivers and collect flowers, the fans that grow along the flowing rivers and sell them in Bulawayo but today there is nothing. There is totally nothing. How can we have that situation? How are we going to sustain this population in this country? We are going to have a serious problem. We cannot have a position where we can debate issues perpetually with no answers at all. We have to come to some conclusion. The Minister of Environment has to come, answer and tell us what they are doing. They do not just take that debate and keep it. They must come back and tell us what they have done. If they are failing, they must tell us they are failing to control the veld fires. This is what the Hon. Senators are asking for because we cannot afford to waste the taxpayers’ money by coming to Harare and debate issues forever. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this debate. I would like to support what the previous speaker has said. We have seen that EMA is failing their duty. In the rural areas, there is not much veld fire because everyone is alert and can trace where the fire has started. At one time, there was an arrest after experiencing veld fires. Most cases of veld fires are from the farms. One day, I was coming from Macheke and there was a veld fire and people tried to put off the fire but failed. I am urging that there must be chiefs in all the farms so that we try to control this issue of veld fires. One day when I was travelling to my rural home, I noticed there was a lot of deforestation at the Mavhirivhi Mountain. I stopped to collect some firewood because there were many trees destroyed. They conduct this activity during the night so that EMA would not see them. Later, the EMA people arrived and they told me that I was arrested and I asked them why they were arresting me. I was not the one who had cut down the trees. They told me that I was supposed to go and get permission from the Forestry people but they later on released me.
Mr. President, what we are debating about might be difficult because we are creating our own laws. We are supposed to create proper laws to curb this issue. If you look at Mazoe River, the water has changed colour because of the illegal miners. Hon. Sen. Mudzuri has said that long back, we used to drink clean water from the rivers but this has changed. I am supporting that the chiefs be given their powers to control activity in farms around their areas. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. FEMAI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on such a motion. I would want to support the previous speakers that chiefs must be given the power to control these areas. I once debated on this motion saying that in the rural areas where we stay, you do not find veld fires. Fires come from farms to the rural areas but people put off the fires. How do they want to operate? That is where the problem is. I want to give a testimony. Last week, we were called by the headman for a meeting. I arrived there and he said, firstly, we want to relay the message that came from the chief. First, anyone who is found to have caused fire, even if it is in your areas, you will be fined a beast each. That is a chief with his land. When we were coming from there, all the people said, we should stop causing fire. If you want to burn something around your premises, you should consult the headman so that he comes and assess and find out why you want to burn the things. That is what used to happen long back. People would not just start fires willy-nilly. EMA was given the task to look at the environment but it does not have powers to arrest. EMA is a toothless dog. It also reports to the police. EMA officers do not approach the courts with a culprit, they also report to the police. What is now happening Mr. President is that because of the economic hardships, people are suffering to the extent that anyone who has a tree in their premises will cut it so that they have firewood to cook and feed their families. If EMA officers see them, there is nothing they can do because they are also suffering. Kitchens of those who are cooking food illegally, I do not know how many they are, every location if you get there, they are using fresh msasa wood. To make matters worse, they use sawmills not axes. People of the age of 15 years are going to the extent of buying sawmills to cut down msasa trees which are as old as 100 years and go and sell a tree which is supposed to benefit all of us only benefits one person. The chief’s tree only benefits one person because of economic hardships. If it was possible, my plea was that - where is the Minister? We should rather ask where the police is. If we were only allowed to implement after we have debated without consulting the Minister, why do we debate when the relevant person is not there then we point fingers blaming him that he is not doing anything. Why do we debate? Why do we bother coming to Parliament when at the end of the day we look for someone who does not come to Parliament. We should debate then come up with resolutions and implement them. We should come up with the penalties for people who cut down trees. Maybe the Minister is going to use our debates to come up with laws which meet our concerns.
Surely, Mr. President, no one can miss fresh wood. In Ruwa where
I come from, I saw a lorry probably a seven tonne offloading fresh Msasa wood, not in the forest but by the road side where there is a market stall. If EMA is everywhere, why does it not get there? The police will be around and they will be aware because I talked to one of them after I had given him a lift in my car. I asked him about these fresh logs which were being offloaded where EMA was. I asked him why the police do not arrest such people. He said they arrest them but the problem is, you waste your time being called to the courts and you are told if you are wanted you will be summoned and meanwhile the person is released. I asked him how many such cases have they dealt with because these people should be arrested.
What I am saying is that people who cut down trees should be arrested because they have stalls to sell firewood. Police should just ask them where they are getting the fresh wood and they are arrested. If one person is arrested all those people who wake up around 5 am with their wheelbarrows from surrounding areas finding their way into the location,s and people are buying because there is no electricity. This is how we are disturbing the environment. There is no electricity and people are now relying on firewood but it is destroying our country.
With these words, I think you should return the land back to the chiefs. This will empower our chiefs to see the people who are cutting down trees. If you go to our rural areas in Chimanimani, there is no one who cuts down trees because it is known that the chief said no one should cut down trees. It is in the rural area. The problem is in these resettled areas where people are cutting down trees. If you drive along Bulawayo, you find piles of fresh firewood along the way. Why is it that
EMA does not arrest those people? With these words, I thank you Mr. President for this opportunity you have given me to debate.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It has been
brought to my attention that our equipment has broken down and right now there is no interpretation. So, if you would like your speech to be recorded in The Hansard you will have to speak in English. However, if you want to speak in any other language you must know that at the present moment, it will not be recorded.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add on what my fellow honourables have contributed. Before I proceed, I want to thank Hon. Chifamba for bringing such an important motion to be debated in this House. I think her main motion is a call for Government to protect the environment. Before I start debating on it Mr. President, I think we need to know what is the definition of environment. The definition of environment, I tried to look around, it was described as the surrounding conditions in which people live; animals, plants which they operate but it is also known as the home. I think this is very important, so this topic is very important to us because it defines our home, the home where we all live. So it is for us to take note and put the significance it deserves when you are debating this.
Let me now zero-in on our environment Mr. President. I think the greatest threat to our environment, I know it is going to be very provocative, is our Government. The greatest threat to our environment in Zimbabwe is our Government, I repeat it. Why am I saying that? I think we create laws and Government is supposed to give directions. Everyone when we have got a good Government, I think citizens will actually listen to the Government. When you have ‘vana vanoramba kuteerera baba, it means baba vari kutadza pamwe’ because naturally we have to listen to our Government. That is a God given obligation. So when we have that not happening then we have got problems.
We have got a threat of the environment as we have trees being cut. We are saying why are people cutting trees? I heard Hon. Members trying to put emphasis on giving back the powers to the chiefs which is not a bad idea. It is good but what will the chiefs do if there is no ZESA and people are cutting down trees to use as fuel. Will the chiefs provide anything? So I think what we need to do is, people are cutting down trees because there is a ready market for trees. If there is no market for trees then we will not be cutting trees and who created that market? It is us the Government failing to provide electricity. That is why I said we may debate and debate but in Shona we say ‘uchida kusvina mota kuti ripere buditsa chishomwe’ and the ‘chishomwe’ is our Government. We need ‘kusvina’ so that we really follow and not create an environment.
Let us be realistic, we can say people should not cut trees and we do not want to see anyone selling firewood on the roadsides, vanobika nei, what will we use as fuel? We are not being realistic. Let us be realistic and say the Government has to provide power. It is unfortunate, we have to quote people that I do not want to quote and give as an example, the colonial era. It is very sad when you find yourself quoting the colonial but we are forced by circumstances to quote them. Why are we saying that Madam President? I am one of the people who does not want to quote the colonial era because I have got bad experience with it but we are now being forced to quote it. We did not have all this problem of veldfires, degradation and tree cutting, why? It is because we had enough fuel and electricity. Even if people did not use electricity there was paraffin. They could afford, but now we have got a situation where not a single Zimbabwean can afford paraffin and ZESA is out for 18 hours and you say people should not cut down trees. I am not saying people should cut down trees, I am telling you reality because you may think probably I am saying we should cut down trees. I am saying who should stop people from cutting trees? It is the Government that is the greatest threat. I want us to focus on the threat.
I am a student of natural sciences where you need to address the real issues if you want to get a better result. Otherwise we may debate until we debate no more and end up even fighting and probably saying our chiefs are not doing a good thing, they are letting people cut down trees and all these. So, Hon. Members, I think this issue is very important and we need to give it the importance it deserves. We cannot do it without focusing on the threat. Let us zero down to siltation. Right now, we have got problems of water in the cities and all this, it is a result of siltation. Who caused siltation, it is actually the Government, not the people but it is Government failing to make sure that people live according to what should be done.
We have got a situation like Harare where we have people now being settled in areas where they should not be settled but Zimbabwe has got a lot of land. Why are we having corruption and land barons? Spaces which were left for people and the environment to prosper are being taken because the Government has not created space elsewhere to give people places to build their houses. So we are now depending on the land which was created by the colonial masters. It is very sad, I do not want to refer to that but it is very sad when you actually are forced to refer to your enemy. I think that is a sign to tell you that you are really in serious trouble as a human being.
Madam President, we can talk of different aspects, different threats to the environment, different directions where the environment is under threat but it is actually because of human interaction. Humans have actually failed to manage the environment and as such, we are also affecting the environment which is meant for animals.
I think the motion by Hon. Chifamba was to the effect that we should stop people from harvesting those wild fruits so that animals can have food. Why are people harvesting wild fruits; do you think someone will get pride in selling mazhanje? I do not think so, but why are we selling mazhanje and getting pride in selling mazhanje? It is because the
Government has failed – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
I know this may sound to be putting a political jacket but it is not a political jacket. This is the reality and it is high time as an honourable House that we really come face to face and discuss as a people. We all belong to this environment, no one owns this it. If it is destroyed we all perish. So, if we allow people who have got the responsibility to make sure that the environment is safeguarded to sleep on duty – I think Hon. Members have actually complained of people who are supposed to implement what we are discussing. Some of them have never visited – let me say visited this august House to listen to what we are doing – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – so, you tell us who is the threat to the environment? Is it the person who is cutting trees, no? It is actually our Government.
I hope by the end of my contribution Madam President, I think it will help a few Hon. Members to see and understand who is the real threat to the environment? Is it someone who has been de-humanised to depend on selling mazhanje or someone who has been de-humanised to be selling firewood or it is the people who are causing others to resort to such? People are trying to eke a living. Why are we not – it is because we have failed to provide for our people. So they are saying whatever comes “chero chinoita kuti ndirarame ndava kuita” - is that the way we should be living as a people? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
It is very sad actually to say the police should be seen fighting those people selling mazhanje and all that. I am being very realistic, but of course let us not be superficial because if they do not sell mazhanje, what are they going to do? They are selling mazhanje in town because there are people who are living here in town who cannot afford a meal but survive on those mazhanje. I think we really need to look at things as they are. Madam President, I think I could spend the whole afternoon trying to emphasise on the importance of the environment but I think it has been emphasised by all other Hon. Members.
Probably the issue which I thought I could add substance to the debate is to say “ndiyani auraya environment”. It is your Government, our Government. If we want to protect our environment, we have to make sure that our Government behaves and knows that the environment is the home to all of us and as such, it is the duty of the Government to protect our home. As Hon. Members, we are an arm of Government and so, it is also our duty to make sure that we protect our environment. Probably you may think that when I say Government I am only referring to the Executive, no, we are also part of it. So Hon. Members, let us avoid being a threat to the environment and end up crafting laws that actually punish people who are trying to eke out a living.
We now have got human-animal conflict and who is causing that? It is the Government because people are going to harvest mazhanje, wild fruits in the forests; animals are now hungry, they invade our homes and we end up with human-animal conflict at unfortunately a heavy cost to
lives.
Thank you Madam President for allowing me to share my little understanding and actually emphasising on the importance of the debate which was brought to this House by Hon. Chifamba. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th August, 2019.
MOTION
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EMPOWERED ENTITY TO ADDRESS
CHALLENGES AFFECTING PENSIONERS AND POLICY
HOLDERS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need a legislative framework on pensions and insurance benefits.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th August, 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
Fourth Order read: adjourned debate on motion on the need of the enforcement of the law on child marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. NCUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th August, 2019.
MOTION
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN TOWNS
AND GROWTH POINTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the perennial shortages of clean and portable water in most towns and growth points.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th August, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON CANCER TREATMENT AND
CONTROL IN ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Cancer Treatment and Control in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 7th August, 2019.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL (HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA), the
Senate adjourned at Nine Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 28th August, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
BILLS RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
inform the Senate that I have received the Education Amendment Bill, [H. B. 1B, 2019] from the National Assembly and the Bill will be set down for Second Reading tomorrow.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON NDIGENISATION
AND EMPOWERMENT ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF
EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES IN THE MINING SECTOR
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House takes note of the Report of the Thematic Committee on
Indigenisation and Empowerment on the Implementation of Empowerment Programmes in the Mining Sector.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: I second.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to present our report from the Thematic Committee of Indigenisation and Empowerment. The Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment (IEE) Policy has gone through some amendments since the enactment of the Act in 2008, which required 51% indigenous shareholding in all businesses in the country with a net asset value of $500 000. In 2018, Government amended the IEE Act through Finance
Act (No 1 of 2018).
The Thematic Committee on Indigenisation and Empowerment appointed by the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders in October 2018 commenced its work at a time the change in policy was being implemented. As such, it became imperative for the Committee to enquire into the new policy, particularly in the mining sector.
Objectives of the enquiry
In embarking on the enquiry, the Committee sought to achieve the following objectives:
- To have a better understanding of the current policy framework;
- To assess the likelihood of the policy changes with respect to the intended objective of empowering the historically disadvantaged people of Zimbabwe: and
- To assess the level of implementation of empowerment policies in the platinum and diamond mining sectors.
Methodology
The Committee received oral evidence from the Minister and
Secretary for Industry and Commerce on the current policy position; the Secretary for Mines and Mining Development, the Chamber of Mines and the Zimbabwe Miners Federation on the implementation of empowerment policies in the mining sector. The Committee also conducted field visits to ZIMPLATS, Unki and ZCDC in Marange to receive evidence on the empowerment programmes the companies have embarked on. The Committee had an opportunity during the visits to meet with some Members of the Community Share Ownership Trusts and people from the communities in which the mining companies are operating.
The Committee expresses its profound gratitude to the officials from the two Ministries, Chamber of Mines and Zimbabwe Miners Federation, Board Members and Management from the three mining companies, members of the community share ownership trusts who included chiefs and members of the public for their input during the
Committee’s enquiry. The valuable submissions are summarized in this report and formed the basis of the Committee’s observations and recommendations for the Executive.
Committee’s Findings
The following section summarises the Committee’s findings on the empowerment framework in the mining sector. It highlights the notable programmes and efforts done by Community Share Ownership Trusts within their respective areas and provides various submissions from the communities and mining companies visited by the Committee.
Government’s Policy Position on Empowerment
Evidence from the Ministry of Industry and Commerce
The Committee received oral evidence from the Ministry of Industry and Commerce and gathered that the department of empowerment now fell under the Ministry of Industry and Commerce following the restructuring of Ministries in 2018. The Minister of Industry clarified the current position on the policy by stating that the amendments to the policy had the effect of confining the 51/49 indigenisation threshold to only two minerals: namely diamond and platinum. The other sectors of the economy were, therefore, open to any investor, regardless of nationality. The major motivation for the amendment was the need to attract foreign direct investment into the country required for economic growth. The Minister pointed at the time that the Ministry of Industry and Commerce was working on producing a policy document on the empowerment policy.
During the Committee’s discussions with the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, it came out clearly that there were calls by mining companies and their representative body for Government to extend the removal of the 51/49 indigenisation threshold. From the Ministry’s perspective, empowerment of the indigenous people would still be achieved without a legal framework compelling mining companies to implement programmes. The Committee was assured that the Ministry engaged investors on the need for them to implement corporate social responsibility programmes as a way of ploughing back into communities they were operating in.
Empowerment Programmes in the Mining Sector
The Committee gathered that the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development had a number of programmes that were aimed at empowering the small scale miners. These included the creation of satellite offices close to the small scale miners’ operations for provision of technical advice. The Committee learnt of the existence of a government financial facility known as the Mining Industry Loan Fund introduced in 1924 which had been allocated one million dollars in the 2019 Budget. The other strategy presented to the Committee was the establishment of centralized custom milling and service centers, meant for processing gold ore and for provision of other mining related services.
Short term proposals for empowering artisanal and small scale miners included efforts by the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development to continuously release land to more people through accelerated processes of repossessing claims where non utilisation of land for mining purposes was identified. This land would be ring fenced for artisanal and small scale miners. The other measures the Ministry undertook to implement was the reviewing of the lengthy and costly processes of registration and replacing the Environmental Impact Assessment requirements for small scale miners with a form that is affordable and easy to implement. Wide consultations were promised on the review of the Mines and Minerals Amendment Act as it was expected to recognise small scale miners.
Challenges against efforts to empower the local people related to small scale miners’ failure to access financial facilities due to their informal nature. For those who managed to access the loans, there was a culture of not paying back thereby affecting the revolving nature of the
facilities.
Evidence from the Zimbabwe Chamber of Mines
From the mining industry’s perspective, submissions from the Zimbabwe Chamber of Mines were that, the mining industry had played a big role in empowering communities through their corporate social investment programmes and enterprise development. Examples cited were empowerment activities through Employee Share Ownership
Schemes and Community Share Ownership Trust with ZIMPLATS, Unki and Blanket mine given as examples of mining companies that had fully complied with the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment
policy.
Committee’s field visit to Zimplats mine
Submissions from Zimplats Mine
Since its inception in 2001, Zimplats mine had invested more than $200 million in socio-economic development projects which had resulted in improved infrastructure, health, education and income generation for the communities around its operations and at national level. It was gathered that Zimplats was currently developing an integrated development model for commercial cattle ranching.
It was further submitted to the Committee by the Zimplats mine that Zimplats was enhancing the contribution of SMEs to the attainment of Vision 2030 through linkages with large businesses in various value chains. Zimplats was progressing in this regard through its Local Enterprise Development Programme (LEDs) by integrating the small businesses into its value chain and providing business development support services as well as training and development opportunities
It was gathered by the Committee that 20 local enterprises had been registered to date under the Zimplats Local Enterprise
Development Programme. In return Zimplats had offered the following as part of its community empowerment initiative:
- Technical and financial support
- Developing platforms for market linkages
- Diversification opportunities in order to develop robust businesses
The Committee was informed that the Company’s empowerment initiatives focused on Community Share Ownership Trusts, Local Enterprise Development, Local Supplier Development, Local Industrialisation and Import Substitution schemes. Some of the activities covered by the schemes were brick manufacturing, welding and civil works, manufacturing of protective clothing and work wear, mining and supply of stone aggregate and river sand and manufacture of explosives, among others.
Submissions from the Mhondoro, Ngezi-Chegutu Zvimba
CSOT
During its field visit to Zimplats mine and the community, the Committee first received a briefing from the company management and members of the Mhondoro-Ngezi-Zvimba-Chegutu Community Share Ownership Trust. The briefing was followed by a tour of Muchiriri
Poultry project, Mbandawe Primary School and Chingondo Secondary School, projects falling under Zimplats empowerment programmes. At the two schools, the Community Share Ownership Trust had built a block of two classrooms at each of the two schools. The cost of constructing each of the two blocks was reported to be US$20 000.00.
The Committee was informed that the Mhondoro Ngezi, Chegutu, Zvimba Community Share Ownership Trust had done a number of community projects in education, Water Sanitation and Hygiene, health, Enterprise development and in transport and communication. Among many projects, the CSOT had completed Manhize Footbridge, Dumbe Primary school roofing, constructed a classroom block at Mhondoro
Ngezi VTC, constructed Domboshava clinic, bought ambulances for
Raffingora and Chivhere Clinic, constructed a mother’s shelter at Mukarati clinic, built Nyika classroom block and constructed Mumwe
Pipe Drift bridge.
Zimplats mine had made a payment of US$10 million in 2014 to the Mhondoro, Ngezi, Chegutu Zvimba Community Share Ownership Trust as a once off seed capital payment. The Mhondoro, Ngezi, Chegutu-Zvimba Community Share Ownership Trust had invested a sum of USD$1.4 million into Sable Chickens and was using the dividends from the investment to fund community projects. The trust was prioritizing projects in poultry, horticulture, honey and sorghum production as part of its enterprise development strategy to empower its rural community.
Empowerment projects in Mhondoro Ngezi
Findings from the Interactions with the Mhondoro-Ngezi-
Zvimba-Chegutu Communities
Submissions from the community were that, the Mhondoro-NgeziZvimba-Chegutu Community Share Ownership Trust was now a commercialized business entity. The community argued that the CSOT was only focusing on enterprise development and in the process was benefiting only a few community members and falling short of its mandate of addressing key community needs. The community pointed out that they were not consulted by the Community Share Ownership
Trust on its intention to invest in sable chickens.
The Community Share Ownership Trust was burdening the community through its demand for collateral to fund enterprise developmental projects and made it hard for the community to access funds from the Trust. The relationship between the Mhondoro-NgeziZvimba-Chegutu Community Share Ownership Trust and the community was laden with tension and hostility as the CSOT was failing to regularly consult the community to explain its mandate and aims as the Trust.
The community felt that the classroom block built by the trust at Chingondo secondary school did not equate with the US$10 million given to the Trust by Zimplats mine highlighting that much more could have been done to address key infrastructure development. The school had shortage of teacher accommodation. The lack of women empowerment in horticulture and irrigation was highlighted as a challenge. The thrust of the Trust in enterprise development for the community in sorghum, honey and poultry production did not have market linkages for the community to sell their produce.
Empowerment projects in Shurugwi District – Submissions from the Unki mine management.
The Committee visited Unki mine in Shurugwi and received a briefing from the mine management. The company had given a total of
US$10 million in 2011 to Tongogara Community share ownership Trust. The company submitted to the Committee that the funds had been used for infrastructure development in the area of Shurugwi. Apart from the efforts of the Tongogara CSOT in infrastructure development, the company had been continuously fulfilling its obligation of cooperate social responsibility. Much of its focus had been in building health care facilities around Shurugwi.
Submissions from the Tongogara Community Share
Ownership Trust
At Msasa Primary School, the Committee received a briefing from Chief Banga a member of the Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust. The Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust had built and tiled an administration block put a ceiling and installed air conditioners. There were also four blocks of classrooms, F14 teachers houses, electrified the structures, built blair toilets, fenced the school and drilled a borehole.
The Committee was impressed by the buildings which had ramps to accommodate access by people living with disabilities. The cost of the
Projects at Msasa primary school was put at US$55 000.
The Tongogara CSOT had to date constructed Chirume Dam, Zviuma Clinic, drilled 150 boreholes in Shurugwi. Of the 24 wards in Shurugwi, the CSOT had allocated US$25 000.00 for projects. However, the amounts differed in areas where bigger projects were identified. The funds given to the CSOT had not been exhausted. The Trust had halted all expenditure and was currently considering getting into income generation projects to increase its funds for future community development projects.
The teachers at Msasa Primary school expressed satisfaction with the work that the Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust had done in building the school and providing the necessary infrastructure at the school highlighting that it had enhanced the learning process.
It was pointed out that the Zimbabwe National Water Authority
(ZINWA) was demanding US$30 from the Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust for each new borehole that the Trust intended to drill. This demand was proving to be too cumbersome for the Trust, stifling its ability to fully carry out its mandate of rural WASH in Shurugwi. This had made the Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust to halt all new borehole drilling projects in the area.
Empowerment projects in Marange- Chiadzwa
The Committee visited the Chiadzwa-Marange area and received a briefing from the board and management of ZCDC before embarking on a tour of projects. During its interaction with the board and management of the ZCDC it was gathered that the company had handed over
US$5million to the Zimunya-Marange Community Share Ownership Trust in June 2018. The ZCDC highlighted that it had a mandate to give out 10% of its profits to the community of Zimunya-Marange
Community Share Ownership Trust every year.
The Committee visited the sewing project, which is an enterprise development programme for the community. Visits were also made to
Gandauta secondary school where the company built a computer room and science laboratory for the school. The Committee also visited the Chiadzwa clinic that was refurbished by the company. The company was reported to have assisted by installing solar panels and provided a pump for the clinic borehole. The company was also reported to be assisting in the procurement of drugs for the clinic. The following figures highlight some of the empowerment projects done by the ZCDC in Marange
Submissions from the Marange Community
The community highlighted that artisanal mining in diamond was present in the area but the people doing the mining were from Kwekwe, Gweru, Shurugwi and Chipinge, but the people from Marange were not being given the opportunity to do artisanal mining. The community felt that it was their right to be part of the artisanal diamond mining groups. However, the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company security personnel was beating up people from Marange who showed any interest of being near the mining areas where artisanal mining was taking place.
The Zimunya-Marange CSOT was not known for there was little to no consultation done by the Trust to the community. That was lack of consultation by the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company which was alleged to be misinforming the community and failing to live up to its promises or even coming to the community for scheduled meetings.
There was concern from the community over the re-introduction of ANJIN (a Chinese company) to mine diamonds in Marange. The community indicated that the company had massively exploited diamonds to its gain and failed to develop and empower the community during its tenure before the coming in of Zimbabwe Consolidated
Diamond Company.
Submission from the community further indicated that the ZCDC mining operations were leaving the environment damaged and less attention was being given to land rehabilitation by the company. The community indicated that the ZCDC had claimed that it had rehabilitated
24 hectares of land to date, but the community noted that only three hectares had been rehabilitated to date. It was pointed out that the Zimbabwe Consolidated Company had only done road rehabilitation in expectation of the Committee’s visit and little to no attention was being given to road infrastructure prior to the Committee’s visit.
The community highlighted that the policies governing natural resources were constantly changing and this was not giving the mining sector an even platform to operate under. The Government was said to be constantly announcing policy changes in the process, creating poor governance in the management of natural resources. In addition to that, policy discrepancies characterised by the delayed gazetting of the Mines and Minerals Bill and the Diamond Bill were leaving too much room for exploitation by companies.
The Committee highlighted that the Zimunya – Marange CSOT had alleged to have built a clinic but upon investigation by the community, it was discovered that the said project was a multi-stakeholder project where the community provided the bricks and PLAN International built the structure, and only the roof was provided by the CSOT.
The people of Marange alleged that they were being discriminated and alienated in job opportunities with allegations being on tribalism and an unfriendly Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company policy on recruitment. People from Marange employed by the ZCDC were being given three months renewable contracts whereas people from other areas were being given two to five year renewable contracts. They were particularly being overlooked in specific job areas such as diamond picking and security.
The community pointed out that security personnel in the area was harassing people, subjecting them to beatings for trespassing - even though they had national identity documents indicating that they were inhabitants of the local villages in Marange. It was further alleged that security was killing people and confiscating vehicles from villagers, demanding that they be cleared and licenced to travel in Marange.
Observations and Recommendations
Policy position on the Empowerment Policy
The Committee observed that there was no known empowerment policy following amendments to the Indigenisation and Empowerment Policy in 2018.
Recommendation
The Ministry of Industry and Commerce should develop and promulgate an empowerment policy to guide investors and the local community by December 2019.
Mining companies’ contribution to empowerment
The Committee noted that there were some projects that companies had indicated to be implementing, nonetheless there were shortfalls in the said projects. It was discovered that the alleged beneficiaries of the projects refuted that they had any connections with the mining companies. The Committee visited Muchiriri Poultry project at Selous during its visit to Zimplats. Upon being asked, the project owner indicated that the project was a family project and fully funded by his parents in the diaspora and not by the mining company or the CSOT.
Recommendations
There is need for the Ministry of Industry and Commerce’s Indigenisation and Empowerment department to periodically carry out monitoring and evaluation visits to ascertain projects that are purposed to be funded by either mining companies or by Community Share Ownership Trusts. This will act as an accountability and performance marker of community development and empowerment projects in mining areas.
Employment opportunities for local communities
The Committee observed that although mining companies had presented to the Committee that they prioritized employing the local people, input from the members of the community indicated the opposite. There were claims that some people from China had been employed for jobs that could be done by the locals and they were being overlooked in menial job opportunities.
Recommendation
- The Ministry of Industry and Commerce should come up with a policy that mandates mining companies in platinum and diamond mining to set aside 60% of the workforce for locals.
- The Ministry of Industry and Commerce must make sure that the majority of educated young people from the platinum and diamond mining areas are assimilated into the workforce of the mining companies by December 31, 2020.
Visibility and Transparency of Community Share Ownership
Trust
The Mhondoro-Ngezi-Chegutu-Zvimba Community Share
Ownership Trust admitted that there was a gap between the Trust and communities. This was confirmed by the community who professed lack of knowledge of the work of the Community Share Ownership Trust. The communities visited highlighted that there was lack of consultation and they were oblivious to the work of Community Share Ownership
Trust in the areas.
Recommendation
The Ministry of Industry and Commerce, through the department of
Indigenisation and Empowerment has to closely monitor CSOTs consultation programmes to make sure that they promote inclusivity and common purpose in rural development.
Financial accountability by Community Share Ownership Trusts
The Committee noted that the use and administration of funds by the
Community Share Ownership Trusts left a lot to be desired. In Mhondoro-Ngezi the Headmistress of Chingondo Secondary school highlighted that they were not privy of the financial details, indicating the expenditure on material used to build the school block. The remainders of the bricks at the school were unaccounted for with allegations that they were used to build a bottle store elsewhere. The Committee felt that the number of projects done by the Mhondoro Ngezi-Zvimba-Chegutu Community Share Ownership Trust did not equate with the huge payout of US$10 million it received from Zimplats
Mine.
Recommendation
The Ministry of Industry and Commerce through the department of Indigenisation and Empowerment must conduct an investigation into the use of funds by the Mhondoro- Ngezi- Zvimba- Chegutu Community Share Ownership Trust and substantiate what the CSOT had done for the community since 2014 in as far as empowerment and infrastructure development is concerned. The report of the findings should be presented to the Committee by April 2020.
State of buildings done by Community Share Ownership Trusts
The Committee observed that buildings constructed in 2014 at
Mbandawe Primary School in Ward 10 of Mhondoro-Ngezi were now in a poor state. This suggested that they were either of poor workmanship or there was serious lack of responsibility on the part of the community which was not taking good care of the built infrastructure.
Recommendation
There is need for proper quality control through the Rural District Councils to ensure that buildings constructed meet quality standards and are durable. Furthermore, beneficiaries of community projects should have active citizenship to take care of infrastructure and projects done for them.
Relations between mining companies and local communities.
The Committee observed that relations between mining companies, particularly between the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company and the community of Marange were bad, characterized by torture, beatings and mistreatment by the ZCDC security.
Recommendation
- The Ministry of Industry and Commerce should liaise with the
ZCDC and the Ministry of Home Affairs to address the inhuman treatment of the people of Marange at the hands of security officers. Measures to address the situation should be put in place by December 2019.
- The Ministry of Industry and Commerce through its department of Indigenisation and Empowerment must make sure that issuance of renewal permits for vehicles is decentralized from Harare to offices in Mutare by December 2019 in order to ease the plight of travelling from Mutare to Harare to renew vehicle permits.
- The Ministry of Industry and Commerce must ensure that entrance permits into Marange only apply to visitors and not the residents of Marange. This should be applicable by December
Traditional leadership in community development.
In Marange for instance, the role of the chief in community development was not clear. Chief Marange himself complained about projects being implemented without his knowledge. The Committee further observed that, there was a local leadership challenge between the headman and the Chief in the Marange area. The Committee deduced that, the ZCDC was dividing the community by recognising Headman Chiadzwa as the highest traditional leader in the area instead of Chief Marange.
Recommendations
The role of Chiefs in Community Share Ownership Trust and community development should be clear as defined in the regulations that govern CSOTs. Local chiefs should always be informed of any development projects in their areas as the custodians of rural development in Zimbabwe. The Ministry of Local Government Public Works and National Housing has to address the improper traditional leadership hierarchy at Marange by informing the ZCDC and its board that the Chiefs are the highest traditional office in rural areas to avoid conflict and power struggles. The resolution of this conflict should be achieved by December 2019.
Addressing the marginalized and relocated communities
The committee gathered that the plight and welfare of the relocated people from Chiadzwa now settled at ARDA farm was a cause of concern. The people relocated from Chiadzwa to ARDA farm were reported to be living in dire poverty. The area that they were relocated to had no water for the community and the living area was too small for large polygamous families.
Recommendation
The Committee recommends for a thorough situation analysis of the area to be done by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare to ascertain the welfare of the relocated community and take up drastic measures to address their welfare and livelihoods by December
2019.
Conclusion
The Committee appreciates the implementation of empowerment programmes by mining companies and Community Share Ownership Trusts in rural communities. However, there are areas that both the mining companies and CSOTs should address as highlighted in the report. Communities on their part should also appreciate some good work which has been done by mining companies and CSOTs by practicing active citizenship in taking care of built infrastructure and also cooperate by attending meetings called to discuss developmental issues.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: The Zimbabwe Constitution
promotes the rights of citizens to health, clean water, right to life, shelter, education and many more. During its fact finding visits to diamond and platinum mines and the surrounding communities, the Committee noted with concern that the mining companies have to empower the mineral rich communities by strongly developing the infrastructure and utilities of the communities they operate in. Accountability on mineral resource revenue and benefit sharing has to be the topical issue in the extraction of minerals in Zimbabwe and it has to start with the local mining communities.
Health
The dust, smoke and mining effluent being discharged by the mining companies was posing a devastating health risk to the local communities. On a brighter note, the Committee was pleased that, the Zimplats, Unki and Marange Mines had managed to provide health care facilities for the local mining communities as part of corporate social responsibility. However, the extent of environmental pollution particularly in Marange was putting the lives of the people at risk. There is need for a holistic approach in tackling the issue of environmental degradation and pollution done by mining companies and this calls for a collaborative approach between the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development and the Ministry of Environment and Tourism to effectively address the environmental issues in mining communities in order to safeguard the lives of the people and their livestock.
Clean Water
The Committee gathered that CSOT had done a significant part in the provision of clean potable water to rural communities. In the case of Shurugwi, through the Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust the funds given to the Trust by Unki Mine were put to good use, with priority given to clean water supply. The Tongogara Community Share Ownership Trust had bought a drill rig for borehole drilling and great exploits had been done in providing clean, adequate and potable water within the rural areas of Shurugwi.
However, the Committee noted with great concern that ZINWA was demanding US$30 from the Tongogara CSOT for each new borehole that the trust intended to drill. Chief Banga one of the chiefs at Tongogara CSOT noted that the monetary demands by ZINWA were
grossly affecting the ability of the trust to fully carry out its mandate in providing clean water to the communities of Shurugwi. It is the
Committee’s earnest opinion that an enabling environment be created for CSOT to fully carry out their rural development efforts by reviewing the policy that mandates ZINWA to collect fees from CSOTs.
Right to Shelter
The Committee gathered that some of the communities who were displaced by mining activities were living in abject poverty. In Marange for example, the displaced families from Chiadzwa were placed at ARDA farm and given compensation packages. However, from the evidence that the Committee gathered there is still need for the ZCDC to assist the displaced families to augment their livelihoods to help them cope with the stinging effects of both physical and economic displacement.
Education
The Committee commends the significant efforts that have been made by Zimplats, Unki and Marange mining companies and their respective CSOT in spearheading and promoting education in their respective areas. The Committee noted that the combined efforts of the mining companies and CSOT in education infrastructure development was influential in capacitating the rural populace of the mining areas, a great feat that will help in developing the next generation of literate and capable young people that will help in the transformation and development of rural communities.
CSOTs
The Committee gathered that the relationship between CSOTs and their communities was based on acrimony and bitterness. This was evidence of a long fraught relationship characterised by sour relations and submerged community engagement. There is need for intervention and monitoring of the relationship between CSOTs and the rural communities by setting up mechanisms of monitoring and evaluation on how CSOTs and their communities can enhance mutually beneficial relationship anchored on trust and common purpose. The communities should be able to liberally submit their interests to CSOTs which is a fundamental effort of integrated development planning that assimilates the views of all concerned stakeholders towards one common vision. This should be the way to go for CSOTs in as far as community development and community engagement are concerned.
Furthermore, it is the Committee’s submission that pursuant to the
Parliament’s oversight role all audit reports of all CSOTs be submitted to Parliament through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce so as to fully monitor and analyse the expenditure, accountability and transparency of all funds given to the CSOTs by the mining companies.
I will end with a biblical statement which says it is more blessed to give than to receive. And James 1 verse 27 states that “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit the Fatherless and widows in their affliction and to keep himself unspotted form the world” with these few words, I thank you.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS
ON FAMILIARISATION VISITS TO POLICE STATIONS AND
BORDER POSTS
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: I move the motion standing in
my name, that this House takes note of the report of the Thematic
Committee on Human Rights on Familiarisation Visits to Featherstone,
Ngundu, Beitbridge, Gwanda and Plumtree Police Stations and Border
Posts.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: There was a general outcry
regarding the abuse of human rights of the accused persons in
Zimbabwe’s police holding cells across the country. Those who were in custody, the civil society and even the general public testified that there was need for the government to act immediately and protect the rights of the accused persons. Therefore, the Thematic Committee on Human Rights resolved to conduct familiarisation visits to selected police holding cells and border posts to ascertain whether the rights of accused persons were upheld and protected.
2.0 OBJECTIVES OF THE VISIT
The broad objective of the visit was to enable Committee Members to establish the potential reasons for the abuse of the rights of the accused persons in police holding cells and ports of entry. In more specific terms, the Committee sought -
- To ascertain whether police officers are trained on human rights issues during their initial and in-service training, ii. Determine the state and conditions of police holding cells with respect to the protection of human rights of the accused persons, iii. Appreciate the challenges faced by police officers with respect to upholding the rights of the accused persons in their custody, iv. Engage accused persons pursuant to the need to understand their concerns and challenges regarding their rights, and
- To appreciate the existing institutional framework for the effective realisation of the rights of accused persons at national ports of
entry.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
In order for the Committee to get the official and technical insight into human rights issues, the Committee conducted familiarisation visits to Morris Depot and the Zimbabwe Republic Police Staff College. The
Committee visited Harare Central, Featherstone, Ngundu, Gwanda, and Plumtree Police Stations to observe the conditions of police holding cells and authenticate whether the rights of the accused persons are upheld at these stations. It also visited Beitbridge and Plumtree border posts to understand how the Immigrations Department and Zimbabwe Revenue Authority department in conjunction with the Zimbabwe Republic Police handled the rights of the accused persons at border posts.
4.0 COMMITTEE’S FINDINGS
4.1 Morris Depot
The Committee observed that police recruits are trained on human rights issues. Apart from the enabling legislation, the reference materials shown to the Committee included The Zimbabwe Republic Police Human Rights and Policing Resource Book and The Police
Duties and Investigations Manual. The Zimbabwe Republic Police Human Rights and Policing Resource Book is used to train police recruits. The manual contained investigations and procedure for all types of arrests, bail, civil matters and trivial reports, deaths, detaining of accused persons, all types of documentation required, using dogs, domestic disputes and how to give evidence.
The Committee was informed that in teaching the protection of human rights of the accused persons to Police recruits, the Constitution of Zimbabwe remained the prime reference book. The following sections of the Constitution were taken into account when teaching the rights of the accused to police recruits; Section 49 on the rights to personal liberty, Section 50 on the rights of arrested and detained persons, Section 51 on the right to human dignity, Section 53 on the freedom from torture or cruel, inhuman treatment or punishment and Section 70 relating to Rights of accused persons. The Committee could not meet the police recruits at the time of visit because they had passed out in November 2018.
The Committee was assured that at each stage of police recruit training, psychological assessments, not psychological tests, were conducted. These assessments were conducted at the foundational phase where police recruits are taught their theory and practical lessons. Then psychological assessments were repeated during the station attachment which lasted for sixteen weeks. Finally, during the consolidation phase which lasted for six weeks the last psychological assessments were done.
4.2 Zimbabwe Republic Police Staff College
The Committee was informed that the ZRP Staff College offered four Diploma programmes and three short certificate courses. The following programmes, namely, Diploma in Law in association with the University of Zimbabwe, Diploma in Public Relations in association with Bindura University of Science Education and Certificate in Public
Prosecution. These programs contained Human Rights issues.
The Committee was informed that training for the Junior Officers Command Course comprises Inspectors and Chief Inspectors who by default are the first line managers in the organisation. The course capacitates officers in charge at Police Stations and the training encompasses issues to do with Human Rights and Policing.
The Committee was informed that the College also conducts induction courses for newly promoted Chief Superintendents and Superintendents. These Officers oversee disciplinary matters relating to breach of Human Rights by Police Officers. The Committee was further informed that the training programmes covered human Rights, contemporary policing, criminal procedure and constitutional law.
4.3 Harare Central Police Station
The Committee visited the police holding area and the cells. It observed that the holding area of approximately 2,5m by 3m accommodated twenty-one accused persons. Some of the inmates had not been fed from the previous day and were still being detained in the holding area, while others complained that they had their admissions of guilty fines ready but had not been attended to.
The Committee was informed by a certain woman that she was arrested the previous day and left her children at home with no food and no one to attend to them. She also complained that she had not been given an opportunity by the police to contact her next of kin to advise them of her arrest.
The Committee observed that Harare Central Police cells have three floors. First floor was inhabited by the accused male persons; second floor was occupied by the accused female persons while the third floor was the exercise room for the inmates. The Committee observed the dilapidated state of the cells and dirty blankets that were no longer unfit for human use. The cells had poor lighting and were too few to accommodate all the detained accused persons during the night. The Committee was disheartened by the pungent smell that reeked out of the cells because of the grimy state of the ablution facility. This exhibited a complete nonconformity to section 53 of the Constitution with respect to inhuman or degrading treatment. The Committee recognized that one could fall sick if subjected to the conditions of the police cells for one day.
4.4 Featherstone Police Station
The Committee observed that the interviewing room had no benches or chairs for use when interviewing suspects. As a result of lack of office chairs, suspects were interviewed seated on the floor. The Committee was informed that the police officers at the station attend refresher courses on Human Rights at their Professional Updating Centre (PUC) once every six months.
The holding cells infrastructure was constructed in 1962, was very old and no longer fit for human habitation. The accused persons’ toilets in the holding cells do not use a flushing system so buckets are used to flush the human waste.
The police officers washed the blankets but they did not have adequate protective clothing. Sanitary pads were not provided for female accused persons. The Committee observed that accused persons bathed in the same room they slept using a bucket without soap and towels.
4.5 Ngundu Police Station
The police station was originally constructed as a base for soldiers in 1943. There were no further developments to date other than the construction of toilets and one block. The Committee observed that there were no functional holding cells since the sewer system broke down in 2014. The station had no toilets for the accused persons. Police officers used the same blair toilets with the accused persons.
There were no water tanks to help meet the water needs for the station since a borehole could not be sunk because the station was built on a hill. Potable water from the council is rationed once a week at the station. As a result officers use drums as reservoirs of water for daily use. The station operated with one vehicle to ferry accused persons who commit serious offences to Chivi police station which is a distance of 60km away. It was submitted that Chivi Police Station holding cells could not accommodate the large numbers of accused persons.
General hands at the police station prepared food for the accused. Food was reported to be adequately provided. Only ten out thirty-four police officers had accommodation at the station negatively affecting the police reaction rate to a crime or incident scene. The Committee was informed that police officers at the station received human rights lectures to refresh their minds on the treatment of the accused.
4.6 Beitbridge Border post
The Committee observed that Beitbridge boarder post does not have facilities to take care of persons with disabilities. The border post does not have police holding facilities. Thus, accused persons are taken for detention at Beitbridge Police Station as soon as the initial documentation was finished. It is the police station that takes care of all the needs of the accused persons at the border post.
The Committee was informed that there is conscientisation and training on human rights for Immigration and ZIMRA officials as well as police officers to preserve and respect human rights of each and every person who avails themselves at the border.
4.7 Gwanda Police Station
The Committee learnt that the police station does not have facilities for persons with disabilities despite it being a modern police station. Disabled persons are housed in the Charge Office under the guard of police officers so that they can access underground facilities like toilet and bathing. At Gwanda police station, mock drills are done every week to show preparedness of police officers in case of fire.
The Committee was also informed that the Police Updating Centre (PUC) situated within the Police Station equips officers with full knowledge of human rights as enshrined in the relevant sections of the Constitution. It was submitted that cleaning of the cells is done by both police officers and the general hands on a daily basis. In addition, community service prisoners from the courts complement the general hands in the cleaning of the building.
4.8 Plumtree Border Post
The Committee was informed that Immigrations Officers generate a Certificate of Evidence, outlining clearly the offence committed and stating the provisions of the Immigration Act applicable to the offenses. After that, they do a warrant of detention before handing over accused persons for detention to the border control, that is, the police. It was submitted that the immigration officials exercise their powers of arrest according to Section 8 of the Immigration Act.
The Border Post is equipped with the requisite facilities to meet the needs of persons with disabilities. It was submitted that all ZIMRA offices at Plumtree Border Post are accessible through the ramps that can be used by those using wheelchairs. The Committee was informed that the accused persons are informed of their rights before being taken to the police station for detention. It was submitted that the 48-hour period is observed by the immigration officers and that they make sure that accused persons are taken to court immediately.
The Immigrations official informed the Committee that there is indirect training on human rights issues. The training was conducted through literature that is generated within the department. The literature explains arresting procedures, detention and how accused persons are treated.
It was submitted to the Committee that if an accused person is prosecuted, ZIMRA does not have detaining powers but hands over the person and the facts of the case to the police who then handle the accused. The person is allowed and heard through representation and also allowed to appeal to the regional office if the terms are set by the station here. If their client is not happy with the regional office ruling, they are allowed to appeal to the Commissioner General. If one is still not happy, the client is allowed to take the authority to court.
4.9 Plumtree Police station
The Committee learnt that all recruits are taught human rights issues, including the rights of accused persons both theoretically at the depot and practically during attachment through mentorship. The police officers received lectures on human rights issues at the station.
The Committee was informed that the police officers prepared food for the accused persons. Their food is mainly sadza and boiled matemba or beans. The officers take turns to wash clothes and blankets for the accused persons because they do not have general workers. The station does not have a stove to cook for the detained accused persons. There were no police officers at Plumtree Police Station who were trained to communicate in sign language although a training programme on sign language is ongoing. Plumtree Police employs the service of the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare for assistance.
ANALYSIS OF THE FINDINGS
5.1 Human Rights Trainings
The Committee established that police officers are regularly trained on human rights issues. Their neighborhood watch team is also trained on human rights issues to uphold the rights of the accused persons. ZIMRA and Immigration officers are also educated on human rights issues.
5.2 Old Infrastructure
The Committee observed the need to construct modern police stations in Zimbabwe. Some of the visited police stations like Ngundu, Featherstone and Plumtree had very old buildings. Ngundu police station was originally constructed as a base for soldiers in 1943 and no further developments were made to date.
5.3 Meals Provision
The Committee discovered that three unbalanced meals were being provided for the accused breaching the right to nutrition. Dried kapenta and beans were the only relish available. There were no special arrangements for the accused persons with allergies and other medical conditions that require special types of food. It was up to the police officers on duty to provide food for those with special diets on humanitarian grounds.
5.4 Lack of Office Furniture
There was shortage of office furniture at police stations thereby the accused were interviewed seated on the floor.
5.5 Sewer System and Running Water Challenges
The Committee observed that only Gwanda Police Station had no sewer system challenges, Ngundu police station holding cells were closed due to sewer challenges. Water was generally a challenge in all the Station visited by the Committee, only Gwanda police station had access to running water. Other police stations visited had no running water, thereby forcing the officers on duty to fetch water for the prisoners to flush the toilets. This situation is not only burdensome for the police officers but it is also a health hazard to the accused persons as the toilets are inside the holding cells which in most cases are stinking and attract flies because of unavailability of running water to flush the toilets.
5.6 Police Vehicles
Although police vehicles were available at all police stations that were visited by the Committee, it was disheartening to realise that the vehicles were inadequate for the policing areas that each police station covered. For instance, at Ngundu police station there was just one police vehicle yet due to the dysfunctional ablution facilities, accused persons at the station had to be transferred to Chivi Police Station. Only Gwanda
Police station had three vehicles.
5.7 The Accused’s Blankets
The committee noted that although blankets were available on all police stations they were very thin and not warm enough especially during winter time. To make it worse the prisoners sleep on floors thereby rendering the blankets less useful during cold periods.
5.8 General Hands in Police Stations
Among other concerns that the committee noted was the unavailability of general hands on all the police stations that were visited. What this entails is that police end up carrying out duties that are outside their mandate such as preparing food and fetching water for the inmates to bath, flush the toilets and cleaning cells for the inmates.
5.9 Sanitary Wear for Accused Females
The unavailability of sanitary wear for female prison inmates is also a huge cause of concern and a burden for female officers who end up providing these basic needs for the inmates at their own expense.
5.10 Health Facilities
It was encouraging to note that there were health facilities within a kilometer radius from the police stations visited. This eased the burden of having to go long distances with inmates should they require medical attention. Some clinics were within walking distances considering there is unavailability of transport to ferry inmates which is an advantage especially in times of emergency.
5.11 Sign Language Trainings
It was very encouraging for the committee to establish that all police stations visited, there initiatives though inadequate to cater for the deaf and dumb. Although such initiatives as training in sign language to cater for the deaf and dumb were in place, it was disheartening to note that in Gwanda the holding cells are on first floor and there are no ramps or lifts to carry the inmates to that floor. It meant that disabled inmates had to be detained in an office outside the cells which is unlawful and risky.
5.12 Cooking Utensils
There were no proper cooking utensils like stoves thus the police have to resort to firewood at their own cost. They did not have pots making it difficult for police officers to prepare meals for the accused persons.
6.0 RECOMMENDATIONS
Cognisant of the above observations, the Committee recommends as follows;
6.1 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must construct modern police stations that guarantee the protection of the rights of the accused person by 2023. However, Ngundu police station needs immediate attention.
6.2 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must ensure that at least two police officers at each station are trained in sign language by 2020.
6.3 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must avail at least two police vehicles at smaller police stations and three vehicles and above for busy police stations by 2020.
6.4 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must ensure that the accused persons are provided with balanced meals by 2020.
6.5 The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must upgrade border management systems at all ports of entry by 2020.
6.6 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must ensure that immigration officers are properly and regularly trained on human rights issues by 2020.
6.7 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must recruit general workers to fill the vacant positions at most police stations by 2020.
6.8 The Ministry of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage must ensure that sanitary wear is made available for female accused by 2020.
7.0 CONCLUSION
Informed by these pertinent observations, I now commend this report for consideration by the August House. I thank you!
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I want to thank Hon. Sen. Dr
Sekeramayi for bringing up this motion on police station visited by our Committee. At Featherstone we observed that it was clean and we thought there is less crime being committed. When we are looking at human rights, it is not about prisoners only but even the police officers because they are human beings who need to be protected in order for them to do their job well. Their complaint was that they do not have grounds men. We were disturbed to learn that police officers do sometimes wash the accused persons’ blankets, instead of concentrating on the core business of interrogating the accused people. The
Committee also wanted to understand how the camp was operating when police officers were cooking for prisoners.
On transport, the station had only one car. The shortage of vehicles was making it difficult for accused persons to attend court on time as the one vehicle will be needed for other duties. We saw that the rights of prisoners are not being observed. When we went to Gwanda Police station, as was said by the previous speaker, it is not easily accessible. It is like you are going up the hill. It is a very old police station.
The police officers are in a very sorry state. It does not even show that it is a police station. We had informed them beforehand that we were coming, hence they had cleaned up the place. We also received the same complaint that police officers are cooking for prisoners and they do not have accommodation. The Committee felt sorry for police officers staying in a single room with their families. We feel that the Government has to do something about it. If someone stays in an environment that is not conducive, they may not perform well at their job. We feel that the rights of police officers have to be observed. We had to sit on logs because they do not have anything to use. Mr. President, it is our request that the Ministry of Home Affairs has to see that the station is refurbished. A lot of police officers stay in the nearby suburbs. Police officers have to get a good place to stay so that they work well.
Mr. President, we also went to Gwanda. It is a well built police station compared to other camps we saw in the rural areas. It is very beautiful but the problem is, there are no lifts in the buildings. It is a provincial office for Matabeleland South but they had no cars. That is a complaint we received in all police stations we visited. If it is possible, cars should be provided at every station.
We visited Beitbridge Border Post. They were working well but what bothered us is that at every station we visited, we did not see the accused persons. A lot of things were hidden to us. What we do not understand is whether people are not committing crimes. When we arrived there, we were told that the Member-in-Charge was not around. In some of the police stations, floors were clean and floor polish had been applied. We were surprised to find out that most of the police stations do not have even a single person detained.
We are asking the Ministry of Home Affairs to visit the camps so that they may appreciate the situation on the ground. You see police officers dressed well but where they are staying is not habitable. It is not a healthy situation to find that police officers do not stay at the station and quite often they will be cleaning and looking for firewood for the accused persons. We are not respecting the rights of police officers in these police stations. They should concentrate on their job. They are the ones who are doing all the work which is not supposed to be done by police officers. Their offices are very clean and if you ask them, they say they start work at 6am instead of 8am. They start at 6am so that they clean offices. This means that the rights of police officers are not being respected in police stations. Mr. President, we are requesting that the Ministry investigates what happens in these police stations. We visited few police stations but I believe that this is happening across the country. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 29th August, 2019.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the protection of the environment and the sustainable use of natural resources.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATIIRIRA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to support the motion which was brought by Hon.
Sen. Chifamba. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chifamba. Mr. President, it is very true that the environment of the country needs to be preserved. As we are all aware that the country needs to be beautified by promoting and looking after our flora and fauna – we would have preserved our environment.
One of His Excellency the President’s programmes is planting of trees. He saw it befitting that trees are planted wherever there are no trees. Even when someone is allocated land where there is no vegetation – you will find them growing grass to make the place beautiful. We know that grass and trees preserve underground water and should people uproot trees or dig pits everywhere this will destroy the environment. We implore Government for effective implementation of laws in the preservation of our environment.
If we were to travel around the country there are some sacred places where you are not allowed burn grass, dig or cut down trees. The places have a refreshingly pleasant environment and this is what should be prevailing countrywide. I think the issue of protecting and preserving our environment has been over emphasised in this House because this is what sustains us as Zimbabweans. Unfortunately, relevant laws are not being effectively executed in this country hence the rampant destruction of our land. In rural areas people are engaging in digging and cutting down of trees and children end up falling into these open pits.
Provincial District Administrators, forestry structures, police officers and traditional leaders should work in conjunction with the ministry in eradicating this scourge that is currently affecting our environment. Even our animals will look healthy and thrive when our environment is preserved.
I am in support of the motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chifamba. It implores us to work together through our village structures to make sure that we preserve our environment. Our children will be happy to grow in a country that has sound environmental preservation regulations. Tourists to the country will also appreciate and enjoy our tourist attraction areas hence the importance of this motion.
As Government, we have to put our heads together and conserve our environment together. We should not just talk but take action in terms of awareness campaigns aimed at preserving our environment. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 29th August, 2019.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 4 to 7 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 8 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY’S
BILATERAL VISIT
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda’s bilateral visit to the Shura Advisory Council, Doha, Qatar, 30th March to 4th April.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me the opportunity to windup the report by the Speaker of the
National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda’s on his bilateral visit to the Shura Advisory Council, Doha, Qatar.
Mr. President Sir, I would like to thank all Hon. Senators needless to mention them individually who contributed to this report. It is always an advantage to visit a foreign country but unfortunately, it is not all of us who can get to visit foreign countries. For those of us who had the opportunity to visit those foreign countries on parliamentary business – it is always helpful because you get new ideas from other countries. I wish that we could all get to visit foreign countries and bring some new ideas with us.
Mr. President, having said this, I would like to move that the motion be adopted.
Motion that this House takes note of the report of the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda’s bilateral visit to the Shura Advisory Council, Doha, Qatar, 30th March to 4th April.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON.
SEN. M. NDLOVU, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 29th August, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM CABINET MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: With me I have a list
of Hon. Ministers who sent in their apologies, Hon. V. Matemadanda, Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs, Hon. N.M.
Ndlovu, Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce, Hon. S.B. Moyo,
Foreign Affairs Minister, Hon. Prof. Mthuli. Ncube, Finance and Economic Development Minister and Hon. K. Kazembe, the Minister of
ICT and Courier Services.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President. My
question goes to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. When we look at resettlement areas, our schools are far much apart-I do not know whether it is just a set up for the resettlement areas. Most of our children in those areas are not going to school because of the distance. What do you have in plan for the resettlement areas? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
President. Indeed we have serious problems in resettlement areas.
Currently, we have about 1800 satellite schools mostly in those areas. We have indicated that we need as quickly as possible to raise resources, maybe including third party resources, which means we have to call for investors to come and help provide those schools, especially in the resettlement areas. Government as of now has been calling on communities to mobilize resources locally in order to build schools.
In our own way, we are just completing 17 schools that are spread across the country; very new schools. I know for example that
Mashonaland West has four of those, Mashonaland Central has three, Mashonaland East has one, Manicaland has two, Matabeleland South has one, Matabeleland North has three and Midlands has two. Masvingo has two in the area in which people from Tokwe Mukorsi were resettled.
So, we have done 17 but it is a far outcry of what we need as a nation. So we really need to gather resources in order to provide schools in those areas. We have a shortage of about 2000 schools nationwide and these are needed now. So, we have to be innovative. We have written to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development suggesting a way in which we can attract investment and third party funds so that we can expedite the provision of schools, especially in the resettlement areas.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELL PHONES
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before we proceed
Hon. Members, can I remind you that when we are in the House, we put our cell phones on silent or we switch them off. I am reminding those who may think their phones are okay to check their cell phones. This is because I do not want to fight with you; I will send you out.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Minister, I talked about resettlement
areas. You find that in some of the resettlement areas, the enrolment is very low yet the distances are far much apart. What plans do you have pertaining those issues? Thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senator, I
thought the Minister answered you. Is it different from what you have asked from the beginning?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
President. The issue of low enrolment is a headache for us. In
Matabeleland South for example, we are running some schools with less than 100 learners. In fact, there are two problems that result from there. If a school has 100 learners or less and it has ECD to Grade 7 - it has the problem of not having a teacher for each of the classes. You will find, based on the calculations that take place at the Public Service Commission (PSC), they may say that such a school should have only two teachers because of the numbers of learners.
So in situations like that, the school will not have enough teachers to take all the classes and there are a lot of inefficiencies because maybe all the learners may be combined in one class and it becomes a nightmare for the teacher or two teachers to really deliver on the curriculum. It is something that we are struggling with but at secondary school, what we have done is to come up with a model for low cost body. This means that we can bring in more numbers to the single school and the learners stay there. So we can enrol from many communities to that one school and then the school becomes a bit more viable. Otherwise it is something that we are struggling with, where we are considering models such as study groups – but those are some of the challenges we face.
I would be lying to you if I were to say that we have a comprehensive answer as of now. We need to think in terms of how to make the school viable and provide sufficient teachers, even though we have low numbers because some of the classes will have five to 10 learners and it does not justify deploying a teacher fully based on the ratios that we are been provided by the Public Service Commission. So it is a headache that we still have.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you, in the
Senate, we now have the Leader of the House and Minister of Justice,
Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi; the Deputy Minister of
Home Affairs, Hon. Madiro; the Deputy Minister Youth, Sport, Arts and
Recreation, Hon. Simbanegavi and the Minister of State for Provincial
Affairs, Midlands Province, Hon. Mavhima. You are welcome Hon.
Ministers.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: My question is directed to the
Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Minister, schools are about to open and the grapevine is that most schools have increased their fees by tremendous amounts. Is there anything that the Minister or the ministry is doing to alleviate the plight of the parents whose children need to attend school in terms of fees because they have increased almost hundredfold in some instances and it is a big worry since most parents are civil servants?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
President. Let me also thank the Hon. Senator for the question.
There are schools, Madam President that we control as Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education with regard to fees. All Government and faith-based schools - maybe it is because of the fact that we contribute as Government towards the payment of their teachers and also provide assistance through the Basic Education Assistance Model (BEAM). So those, before they increase their fees, have to seek the authority of the Secretary for Primary and Secondary Education. There are schools that we do not have direct control over and these are the private schools. The ones that are run by Trusts – there are a number but now many. I think that they are not upwards of 70 in the country and these private schools are the ones that have increased to astronomical levels.
Under the current Act, I think what was known as the price – I am not sure about the specific name but there was a commission that was supposed to look into the affairs of such schools and indeed commercial entities, in general, to ensure that the consumers of different services were not being disadvantaged through unreasonable price increments. In the coming Act we are suggesting that the Competitiveness Commission should take on that role. So where we control the increments have largely been reasonable and have also taken consideration of the fact that since October 2018, there have been increases in the prices of goods and services that are essential to the optimal running of schools. In our boarding schools, the price of food has gone up, including the price of different kinds of consumables that our schools use has also gone up.
We have therefore allowed modest fee increases. There are a few examples where the fees have increased from something like $600.00 to $800.00 and some have increased from about $800.00 to $1 200.00.
There is another spectre that we want to control – some schools have sought increases in their fees, levies and boarding fees but have gone in almost like a clandestine way to do a further increase by demanding groceries from parents and the lists are just out of this world. We are working to make sure that that does not exist, especially in the schools that we control.
In the private schools, you will actually find that the parents’ body sits together with the responsible authority and they say we want this amount. For example one school is now charging RTGs $35 000.00 per term and you go there and you are made to understand that it was a mutual agreement between the parents and the school. You get a few odd parents who then come and say we were not part of that agreement, but again traditionally those have not been under the control of the Ministry as far as the fees are concerned.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: My supplementary question
is: will the increase in school fees not affect the standard of education in our country? As a Ministry what are they doing to make sure education is accessed by all?
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Let me start by saying the high
standard of education in this country will always be there. Government and mission schools must apply to the Permanent Secretary if they want to increase their school fees. The Permanent Secretary will look at the request and take into consideration whether the increase is in the best interest of all parties concerned. That is the job of the Permanent Secretary, together with his provincial staff and inspectors.
Quite often we have succeeded in regulating the fees that are charged at our schools. In the past we had a problem with some schools which were compelling parents to buy school uniform at their schools. This in our view was a way of raising extra income for the schools. Our view is that schools should raise their fees, taking into consideration all the price adjustments that have been going on since October 2018. Yes, we want the schools to raise their fees but at the same time we are aware that the parents are burdened with other things. So we need to strike a balance. Some schools may want to charge as much as $2000 but it is the duty of the Permanent Secretary to bring down the figure to $1300. That is how the Permanent Secretary works. If parents do not support the school by paying fees, that is when the standards will go down. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Hon. Minister, are you using the
Education Act to regulate the conduct of schools in this country because it seems no one is following the law?
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: These private schools have been in
existence for a very long time. If you look at schools like Peter House, they have been there for a long period of time. These are the schools which a parent actually signs a contract to say that they have agreed to enroll their child at the school and will pay all the necessary fees on time. A lot of people who send their children to these schools actually prefer to pay these kinds of amounts. It is only a few who do not agree wholly with what the schools will be charging.
Let me say that the curriculum that is taught in those schools in regulated by the Permanent Secretary in our Ministry. Our DSI also conduct visits to inspect how they are teaching the children there. But one thing I can tell you is that we do not have the power to control the fees that they are charging at those schools. That is why I said the commissions were responsible for controlling those schools. These commissions were repealed and in the new Education Act we want the commission to see whether the rights of people are not being violated. As a Government we control all what is happening at these other schools that I have mentioned. I thank you.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: My question is directed to the Leader of the House. What is Government policy on settlement of transactions for goods and services? I thank you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: If you can ask again
Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I said what is the Government policy on settlement of transactions for goods and services in Zimbabwe?
“zvema Ecocash necash.”
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. We recently introduced as legal tender our own currency which is in two parts; the electronic part and the bond notes. These are the legal tenders that are allowed to be used in Zimbabwe. The electronic part we have the RTGs transactions where you do the internet transactions or through the ZIPIT platform or you can use the ecocash platform. Those are the legal platforms that are available for use in Zimbabwe I thank you.
*HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: Thank you. My supplementary question is, a lot of companies do not accept swipe or ecocash; they want cash. What are we supposed to do in Zimbabwe?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam President. Like I said before, in this country we accept our local currency, which includes Ecocash and transfers. If there are people who are refusing, they are breaking the law. What is now needed is to report those people like what was done to service stations. In Mashonaland Central those who were refusing electronic transfers, we closed those service stations. If you report those cases, investigations will be made. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. I would want to ask the Minister whether Government institutions have point of sale machines or accept ecocash. I am asking this because there is no cash in banks. For example, institutions like GMB do not accept ecocash; they accept swipe. Is barter trade acceptable? What I would want to understand is whether Government institutions have gadgets such as point of sale machines. If they do not have them, they have no right to arrest people.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
you Madam President. I would also want to thank the Hon. Member for his question on whether Government has point of sale machines. My answer is, if I come here, I explain Government policy. If you want to know whether in the Ministry of Education they have point of sale machines, you go to the Ministry and write down. The Minister comes with statistics and presents them. For me to give the statistics, I will be lying to this House.
*HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam President, the Minister does not want to give us an answer on whether these gadgets are there. He is the Leader of Government business. This means he has to know. I gave an example of GMB and other Government institutions that they do not accept ecocash. These things are happening and I am asking him. If he does not know as the Leader of Government business in the House, will we go to each and every Ministry? We want him to answer as the Leader of Government business.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I understand what you
are saying. In here we ask policy questions. Those are the ones that are responded to by the Leader of the House. On the issue of swipe machines for example, he said that we expect that systems function normally. For him to say go to the Ministry of Education, that is not a policy answer. Let us help each other to ask policy issues. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: We talk about Monetary Policy
to see how money is used. Implementation is the result. If you say it is not a policy issue to ask whether gadgets are there, I do not understand.
It is the Government’s job to ensure that the things are there. We now have over a year using those gadgets. He is not supposed to tell us to go to each and every Ministry. It is our job to interrogate to see how things are happening.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May we understand
each other Hon. Senator. I am saying, you have been answered well.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Thank you Madam President.
My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. What is the policy on money coming from SIG, like the money used to buy furniture and building of ablution facilities but the schools will not have buildings to put that furniture? Those who are providing money, why can they not solve issues that are affecting schools?
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
President, SIG stands for School Improvement Grant. These are funds that come from our development partners. The money is managed by UNICEF under the programme named Education Development Fund
(EDF). These can also be funds that we receive from Global Partnership for Education. This money in most cases is $3000 per school. We usually disburse to about 6 000 schools. This money cannot sustain the education system in Zimbabwe because it is accessed through our efforts as a country. It is disbursed with the condition that we buy books to complement the books in schools and conduct school refurbishments.
We need to source for more funds that are directed at putting infrastructure in our schools. Those who want to assist can do so but it is our duty to build the foundation of our education system as these funds are just there to assist. The money that we accumulate as Government and parents is about RTGs $3 billion. The money that we get as donations can be $40 to $50 million annually and we use this money to assist in addition to what we would have accumulated. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My question is directed to the Leader of Government Business. Is it Government policy that there is an armed force that abducts people during the night, beating and dumping them or intimidating civil servants? An Hon. Minister was recently quoted by a newspaper in Mutare saying that all civil servants are ZANU PF by virtue of being Government employees and this instilled fear in people. Again, those who are responsible for the abductions are not being arrested. Is it Government policy to use the militia?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you
Madam President and thank the Hon. Senator for posing the question.
Madam President, the question is not truthful and not expected from an
Hon. Senator who sits in Parliament. The Hon. Senator should submit substantiated proof of the alleged abductions because Government is not involved in such nefarious activities, based on dubious allegations. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - Some of these people would have run out of ideas and end up beating each other up in order to paint a gloomy picture of Zimbabwe to their foreign funders.
On the issue of civil servants, Madam President, all civil servants anywhere in the world implement policies of the sitting Government. When you are a civil servant and you do not want to implement the policies of the sitting Government, then you do not deserve to be a civil servant because you will not be able to implement what that particular Government wants. I am surprised that there are civil servants who do not want to implement Government policies because when you are a civil servant, you are implementing ZANU PF policies through its manifestos as the ruling party. Civil servants can only deviate from the current ZANU PF manifestos when a new Government comes into place. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, I think I heard you saying that there are some members of the Opposition or people who have run out of ideas who are abducting people.
My question is, have there been arrests of the Opposition or any member of the public who perpetrated the abductions? If not, why is
Government not penalising the culprits if they are not the instigators?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam President and thank you Hon. Senator for the plausible question. Madam President, no arrests have been effected simply because no reports would have been made to the police to that effect. The police can only enforce laws upon getting leads from the victims.
I mentioned that it is people who have run out of ideas because some people are not alleging it was Government perpetrated when they lack substantiated proof to that effect just to please their masters. I did not name anyone but some people want to please their masters and then they abduct and beat each other up. When two people beat each other up and do not report then how will Government know? Government cannot witch-hunt in order for it to know what transpired. I thank you
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is, does the Hon. Minister mean that for the first time the new dispensation of the Zimbabwe Government now permits
Zimbabweans to move around with fire arms, beating up people, you do not investigate or care because it does not concern you? – [HON.
SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Was that a
supplementary question - that is a new thing.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam President. The
Government cares for its citizenry and has recently increased the number of roadblock sites in order to conduct searches to ascertain that no one is carrying firearms. Anyone with information relating to the whereabouts of people with guns, the Government has to investigate and bring to book those culprits. Government wants to see its citizens living in peace and harmony. It is the duty of Government to put roadblocks in order to sniff out all the unruly elements in the society. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order. I appeal to
the House not to develop the spirit of “them and us”. I want to say that the security of the people is in danger as I speak right now. Let us not debate this matter on a partisan basis. The Minister is speaking as if it is the problem of the opposition members which cannot be solved. It looks like the laws are being applied selectively to the people of this country. I am saying that the answer that is being given here is not national. I am not satisfied with the answers that are being given here.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We are on question
time and you are now depriving others of questions. You are now repeating the same question. Could you please put your supplementary question –because to me as I am presiding over this House, the Minister answered your question fully. The Minister actually said if there is anyone who has seen people moving around with guns, please report to the nearest police. I do not know which answer you want. You want a certain answer which I do not know.
*HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam President, what I am
saying here is not a joke.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Even me I am not
joking. I am presiding and now I want to ask you to take your seat.
Please resume your seat.
*HON. SHUMBA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. What is Government policy with regards to the availability of science laboratories in primary schools?
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam
President. There are a lot of programmes that are in place which promote the teaching of science in our schools. I wish to inform the Senate that we have rolled out 3500 science kits in all primary schools. The distribution of these kits has already started in all the provinces. On 20 September 2019 we are going to have a ceremonial launch in Harare Province.
This programme is aimed at stimulating the teaching of science at primary school level. On 18 September 2019, His Excellency, the President will commission the 17 schools that are under construction and the commissioning ceremony will be in Gokwe North at a school called Budiriro Primary School. We have adopted a policy where at each primary school we would like to see the deployment of a mobile science lab. Six of the secondary schools that we have built are being fitted with fully fledged science laboratories.
We are also planning to construct 100 schools and these schools will be fitted with science laboratories. We have also adopted a policy where we intend to equip 66 schools in rural areas with science laboratories so that our schools may become science hubs in each district. These are some of the programmes that we have. We need to mobilise resources so that we can have enough infrastructure to sustain the standard of education in this country. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: My question is directed to the
Leader of the House. What is the policy of Government with regards to maintaining and repairing tractors for the upcoming agricultural season?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank
the Hon. Senator for her question. Government is targeting to acquire tractors and centre pivots so as to improve the irrigation capacity in the country. We are looking at having at least 200 ha per district. Coming back to her question on how some tractors can be repaired, that question has to be put in writing. The Minister when he comes will be able to talk with the relevant department so that he can give a clear answer on what is being done to repair those tractors. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MATUPULA: Thank you very much
Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We have a lot of our people who are working in the diaspora in many places. Of late, bogus people have come up printing fake qualifications, and forging O’ Level, A’ Level, degree and other certificates. In what ways can prospective employers from outside verify these qualifications which will be purported to be coming from our schools and universities. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. MAVIMA): Thank you Madam President. I
have heard stories and complaints overseas about such fake certificates. I cannot speak about what processes and procedure followed in other countries. Here we have a mechanism where we verify certificates that are coming from outside. Unfortunately, it is not my portfolio. It is within the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development. However, the fact that there are those outside, it actually means that the various jurisdictions where maybe some Zimbabweans are going and presenting certificates also have mechanisms there to verify to see if those certificates are genuine.
It is not all negative by the way. It is a positive – negative in the sense that it is also saying that the Zimbabwean qualification is highly valued. A lot of people are actually going out of their way to forge certificates coming from Zimbabwe. As to how other countries do it, I am not sure, but here we always look at qualifications coming from outside to make sure that they are consistent with our own standards and also to make sure that they are genuine, but it is the responsibility of the
Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development Ministry. Thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE DEPUTY
PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Mr. President, I move that we extend
Question Time by another 10 minutes.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We extend
by 15 minutes.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question was initially directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, but since the Minister is not around, I will direct it to the Leader of the House. It has now been published that a 6 km road work is taking 15 months. My question is, does the Government of this day have a programme for Harare to Beitbridge road works? How many decades will it take looking at extrapolating from what has been published? How many decades will it take for the Beitbridge to Harare road to be completed?
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Mr.
President, the two roads have got different terrains. I wish the Hon. Member had visited the area that we got a grant to ensure that we improve the 6 km stretch. It was a death trap. If you recall Hon. President, a few years ago, the Lion King Bus – a lot of our people perished there. So we have got a grant to ensure that we widen it. They have to navigate through mountains and valleys to ensure that the road is widened. So for the Hon. Senator to compare construction work that is going to happen in an area which is mountainous with valleys to the Beitbridge road, I think it is unfortunate. I am not sure where the comparison is coming from.
Coming to the second part of the question, the Harare to Beitbridge road is already under construction. Those that have driven along this road will tell you that after Beatrice there are some works that are happening. I understand also after Chivhu there are some works that are happening. We are doing it in phases. We decided as a Government that we have to do it on our own and the Minister responsible through ZINARA will mobilize funds so that we can do that road. It is now work in progress but the timeline will depend on the availability of funds as we do it in stages, looking at those areas that we feel are more dangerous. The areas will be given priority until we complete the road.
I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I think the Minister did not answer my question. My question is, how many decades will it take for the
Beitbridge to Harare dual carriageway to be completed?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The
Minister answered your question, he did.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NGEZI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. What programmes do you have as Government to preserve sacred areas and identifying them?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MADIRO): Thank you Mr.
President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Ngezi for raising that question. Sacred places are preserved according to Government policy in conjunction with our traditional leaders, chiefs, as well as other local leadership. They are the ones who know our culture and how it should be practiced. Hon. Senator, if there are some sacred places that are unknown to Government then people should submit such information to
Government so that Government can take steps to preserve those areas.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: My question is directed to the
Leader of the House. Hon. Minister, according to policy – it is supposed to be improved in cases where it is not helpful. People are suffering out there due to the prevailing economic challenges, especially as pertains the continuous fuel price increments. What is Government policy in terms of revising its policies so that peoples’ livelihoods can be improved? What can we say Hon. Minister, do you really want to increase the price of fuel to $17.00 so that people can know and plan in advance?
THE MINISTER OFJUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President – I appreciate the question that has been raised. Government policy that was put in place was in accordance to the national budget as expounded in the Transitional Stabilisation Programme (TSP).
The Minister of Finance and Economic Development explained that we have to engage in austerity measures like these times. Maybe the Hon. Senator did not take these words seriously but these are the times that we are in. When the TSP was released, there were no promises that life would not be difficult. We debated extensively on the fact that there would be difficulties in the economy. This policy is very good in that the future is bright.
Mr. President, allow me to say that when we were trading in United States Dollars, prices of most commodities were now very expensive but now, as we use our local currency, prices have improved. One good thing that we did was to re-introduce our local currency so that we can plan for the economy. I would like to urge the Hon. Senator to be strong and impact to people that we have a bright future ahead of us. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Mr. President, given what the Hon.
Minister has said. I am sorry I am not going to speak in Shona because I am not proficient in the language.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: No, no, you can
speak in English – there is no problem.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My question is that the United States Dollar or whatever currency we are using at the moment is floating. A floating currency is not predictable and since it is not predictable, my question is, are the fuel prices going to continue being pegged on an unstable currency or Government has a programme – that is what I feel the Hon. Senator Wunganayi wanted to ask that is there …
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, Hon.
Sen. Mpofu may you please ask your question.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President, the question is, what my Hon. colleague asked was, does Government have a programme in terms of fuel price increases or decreases within the next six months in order for businesses to make decisions? The reason being that if they are only pegging that to the United States Dollar – which is floating …
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, I
think you have asked your question.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: Thank you, fair enough.
THE MINISTER OFJUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon.
President, I want to thank the Hon. Senator. Firstly, I want to say that all currencies float so the question of a currency floating or not where you have several currencies and you are trading among yourselves as nations then the interbank exchange rates will apply. What we are doing is the price of fuel will be determined after doing all the cost build ups. Like I indicated, we are going through a process of transition from using the United States Dollar to our own currency and we are almost getting there.
I think that everyone knows that there was a time when the exchange rate was moving at very alarming rate but now it is kind of stabilising. As we move forward and as our programme takes shape, you will find the exchange rate stabilising and things will stabilise. This is part of the transitional stabilisation programme that we introduced to ensure that we come out from the situation that we were in. So definitely, things are going to stabilise within a matter of time. I thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
POLICY REGARDING SCHOOL DROP-OUTS
- HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA asked the Minister of
Primary and Secondary Education to advise on Government’s policy regarding students who dropped out of school due to the fact that their parents could not afford to pay incentives that were required by teachers before the year 2013, resulting in such students being a menace to the communities.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon. President.
Hon. President, the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education has not recorded cases of dropouts that are directly linked to incentives.
However, in the event that a child drops out of school for some reasons, the ministry is ready to re-admit the learner. The learner can be admitted via the formal route or through the non-formal wing.
In fact, our non-formal wing can accommodate any learner, regardless of age. So all learners and other stakeholders who are interested in acquiring certain skills or those who want to supplement their ‘O’ level and ‘A’ level subjects are free to join any of our schools that offer the non-formal wing. In many cases, Mr. President, the school going age children who enter or re-enter through the non-formal route end up being admitted into the formal route. I thank you.
STRATEGIES TO ADDRESS CURRENT ELECTRICITY
CHALLENGES
- HON. SEN. MAVETERA asked the Minister of Energy and
Power Development to inform the House the strategies in place to address the current electricity challenges faced by the country and state when the power outages are expected to end and the situation returns to normalcy, thereby facilitating industrial production.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Let me start by saying I
would like to inform the House that Government is putting in place strategies to improve the power supply situation in the country. The following capacity expansion strategies for both Brown and Greenfield projects have been identified for development to enhance power supply.
Some of the projects are under TSP Priority Programmes.
For short terms measures, we have refurbishment of power plants. These we are referring to Hwange and small thermal power stations. Part of the works includes life extension works at Hwange Power Station units and repowering of the small thermal power stations in Harare, Bulawayo and Munyati. Refurbishment of Hwange Unit 6 is expected to add 170MW to the grid. Unit 6 has been down since March and work is commencing on that unit in September. Once it is completed we will have 170MW added on to our grid.
We also have imports and bilateral arrangements where Zimbabwe is a member of SAPP which allows electricity trading between SADC members states and participation in the SAPP market. We also buy electricity on the DAM which is the day-ahead-market, which requires pre-funding to bid for electricity. Electricity is much cheaper and guaranteed but this requires foreign currency.
We also have electricity available during off peak periods which can be accessed by the country at affordable tariffs. This can allow the utility to save water at Kariba for use during peak hours. However, there is need to avail foreign currency for the purchase of power again. We also have imports from Mozambique HCB and Eskom of South Africa where the Government intervened. At the moment we are importing electricity from Eskom. Successful negotiations’ based on payment plans to settle the debt have yielded between 150MW and 400MW of power. Cabinet has also approved that ZETDC can ring fence large scale power consumers which generate foreign currency. This will assist ZETDC to import power for use locally through SAPP and DAM.
We also have the restoration of value to ZESA which was done through the increase in tariffs though it is not what we really expected but there is something in that area where ZESA now can raise some funds to meet its operational obligations. We also have net metering opportunities for industry where we are encouraging private companies or households to have solar panels installed at their roof tops. Through that facility if you have got excess electricity, you apply to have the net metering opportunity where the excess electricity can be transmitted onto grid and ZESA should pay for that electricity. We are encouraging mining companies, industries and farmers to follow suit on that one. We also have renewable energy where we are encouraging households and companies to adopt the renewable energy where we install solar panels to generate electricity for our own use at our places. Globally renewable energy cost has significantly dropped according to the international renewable energy agency. The reduction is approximately 80% for solar panels since 2009. It is worthwhile to adopt these technologies even it appears that the initial cost is high compared to other alternatives such as diesel. The running costs and maintenance costs are much lower in the long run.
As Government we have also come up with renewable energy policy which will be launched very soon where we are encouraging individuals and companies to go the renewable energy way which is clean energy.
On the demand side management we are encouraging that we have pre paid meters where the utility has installed about 650 000 pre paid meters and more are expected to be installed in the near future but the challenge is foreign currency to buy the pre paid meters. We also have energy efficiency lighting where Government has outlawed the use of inefficient light bulbs in favour of energy efficient light emitting bulbs in order to reduce demand in building and household levels.
We are also promoting the use of solar geysers in place of electric geysers for water heating. Statistics compiled so far indicate that from January to April 2019 up to 3000 solar geysers have been installed. We are also encouraging switch-off switches at our homes.
In the medium to long term, we have Hwange 7 and 8 expansions where the project is expected to add 600MW into the national grid. The first unit is set to be commissioned by end of 2021 and the second unit in
Batoka Hydroelectric project
The country is also pursuing the development of the 1200MW
Batoka Gorge Hydroelectric Project under a Build Operate and Transfer
(BOT) model. It is anticipated that before the end of 2019, the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA), the implementing entity for the project, would have identified the project developer.
IPP Projects
Mr. President Sir, the Senate should also take note that the Government has licenced a number of large scale thermal power projects such as Sengwa that are expected to come online in the long term. There are several individuals who have been issued with licences to develop power plants; thermal, solar and hydro power plants.
Grid Fortification
In carrying out all the above projects and programmes, it is important that the transmission infrastructure connecting into the SAPP and East Africa Power Pool is reinforced and upgraded to tap into the excess power available within that region. Generally, private sector has a role to play in upgrading the grid. Modalities can then be worked on by the investor and ZETDC on ways on how to recoup their investments.
Energy Resource Plan
Mr. President Sir, the Senate should also appreciate that from a planning and policy perspective, the Ministry is in the process of developing the National Integrated Energy Resource Plan (NIERP) that will allow systematic development of the power sector where projects will be implemented through a competitive procurement process and not through unsolicited bids.
As for the last part of the question where the Hon. Senator wants to know when power outages are going to end, I cannot give the exact time when it is going to end, but it depends on how we are going to implement the short term and the long term measures.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: The Minister said that the private sector can apply to actually get solar energy into the grid. How long does it take for the private sector to do that? My experience is that it takes months and possibly over a year. Can the Minister talk to us about the service agreement process for this arrangement? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Thank you Hon. Senator for
that question. We have got the Zimbabwe Energy Regulatory Authority (ZERA), which issues the licences. According to their operational modalities, it used to take six months to process but we are trying to review that so that we take a shorter period. This is because when one applies for a licence, they have to identify the land and the land has to be cleared with the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. There has to be an Environmental Impact Assessment done by EMA and there is also supposed to be a power purchase agreement with the ZETDC. This process usually takes more than six months and we are trying to shorten the period so that we process everything. This was being done manually and we are trying to computerize everything so that the process takes shorter periods.
RECTIFICATION OF THE ELECTRICITY FAULT AT CHIEF MATIBE’S HOMESTEAD
- HON. MOHADI asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to inform the Senate when the electricity fault at Chief Matibe’s homestead will be rectified.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. MUDYIWA): Mr. President, I would like
the Senate to take note that the work required to restore supplies to Chief
Matibe’s homestead is relatively extensive. A total of 30 poles were down and need to be changed. The poles have since been delivered and erected. The outstanding work that ZETDC are currently seized with is to clear 5km of the supply line before restoring the supplies. The work is estimated to be completed by the end of this month. Thank you Mr.
President.
POLICY REGARDING RECRUITMENT OF POLICE OFFICERS
- HON. SEN. M. NDLOVU asked the Minister of Home
Affairs and Cultural Heritage to explain to the House the Government policy regarding recruitment of police officers, including academic qualifications, age and gender amongst other attributes.
I wish to thank the Hon. Senator for the question. In order to be appointed into the Zimbabwe Republic Police, citizens must meet the following minimum requirements:
They should be of exemplary character; not less than 18 years and not more than twenty two years of age. Applications should posses 5 ordinary levels (including Mathematics, English and Science subjects) attained in not more than two sittings. Aspiring candidates should also pass pre-entry aptitude tests.
Cognizant that recruitment is for persons suitable of joining the police service; potential candidates should have a good background with no criminal convictions. As regards health requirements, applicants should be free from pulmonary tuberculosis; be physically fit, have a good eyesight and hearing without artificial aids, be free from chronic disease of the lungs or heart; be free from chronic disease of the lungs or heart, impaired general fingers, hernia; varicocele, hemorrhoids, chronic skin diseases, flat feet or any other disease or defect likely to render the candidate unfit for police duties.
Candidates wishing to join the police service are also expected to pass the Selection board interview. In terms of height, male applicants should be at least 168 cm tall without foot wear. In addition, they should weigh not less than 59 kilograms. Female applicants should be at least 162 cm tall without footwear and should have a weight and chest measurement which is in proportion to their height.
Madam President, I wish to also advise the Hon. Senator that the Zimbabwe Republic Police also recruits from time to time persons who possess various technical skills as construction technicians; transport technicians, armaments technicians; laboratory technicians; state registered nurses; environment health technicians; dental therapists; signals; teachers; saddlers; caterers; tailors; printers and chaplains. The entry requirements for technicians are that the potential candidates should have a minimum of 5 ordinary level passes at grade C or better, including English Language, Mathematics and Science taken at not more than two sittings.
Applicants should be holders of a Journeyman class one (for artisans) and a diploma or a certificate obtained at a recognised institute for other technical fields. They should be aged between 18 and 40 years. The aspiring candidates should also have a clean background with no previous convictions or delinquent behaviour. They are expected to pass selection board interviews as well as medical examinations. However, there are no height specifications for technicians. Madam President, these are the requirements for one to join the ZRP and serve the nation as a police officer. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: My supplementary question pertains to the issue of height and weight whether there is any evidence – 168cm it means that I will not qualify to be a policeman. I would urge the ministry to relook at those policies because nowadays we deal with Body Mass Index (BMI). I think that is much more scientific than the height because I believe that it is discriminatory to say just because I am not 168 then I am automatically disqualified. We should not enforce such discriminatory practices in this era and I think that it is something that needs urgent attention. I thank you.
HON. MADIRO: Thank you very much Mr. President. The Hon.
Senator is giving us his expert opinion as a doctor on additional considerations but what I have read out are the current requirements for one to qualify. However, we will improve as time goes on and take those proposals into account. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: My Hon. Senator has already
highlighted the issue of discrimination and I think that for the Hon. Minister to say he has to look into it with some hindsight or whatever is not satisfactory to me because it is really discriminatory. I am 167 cm, in terms of my height, and for anyone at least in this day and age to do that – I think it is inappropriate and something that has got to be looked at urgently rather than the Hon. Minister to say that it is something that they will look at in hindsight.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order
Hon. Senator Mpofu, I think you are well-intentioned. The Hon. Minister has admitted that it is something that they were not aware of …
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I understand Mr. President but the Hon.
Minister said that …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order, but I have not even finished what I wanted to say and you are already standing up. I want to say that the Hon. Minister has explained that he has taken note of what Hon. Sen. Mavetera raised.
It is a ministry and he cannot just say that from now onwards we have changed and are now going to follow this. He cannot do that because this is a ministry and Government. There are statutes that govern the running of the ministry. I think that he has acknowledged the new dimension that has been brought up and for sure – it is a new dimension that they are going to take on board. I thank you.
HON. B. MPOFU: Mr. President on a point of order! Question
Number 1, has been appearing on the Order Paper since the 1st November, 2018. I think that it is not only inappropriate but for a question to stay in this House for more than four months says a lot about the respect the Hon. Minister tasked with the question has for this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Mpofu – I agree with you. It is very unfortunate that the question has been on the Order Paper for that long. We are going raise the issue with the relevant authorities.
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
GENDER EQUALITY ON APPOINTMENT OF COMMISSIONERS
TO INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to explain the measures being taken to ensure gender equality in the appointment of Commissioners to independent commissions.
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): May I applaud
Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for posing a very pertinent question relating to the measures being taken to ensure gender equality in the appointment of Commissioners to Independent Commissions. In 2013, Zimbabwe enacted a new Constitution including stronger gender equality provisions that outlaw discrimination against women. The Constitution promotes women’s full participation in all aspects of society and abolishes all “laws, customs, traditions and practices” that infringe upon women’s rights and equality with men. The Constitution’s mandate for gender equality is reflected in the appointment of women as Commissioners for Independent Commissions.
The appointment and tenure of Independent Commissions’ staff is a pre-requisite to their independence. Therefore, my Ministry does not in any way interfere with the process of appointing commissioners. As such, the Standing rules and Orders Committee of the Parliament of
Zimbabwe is mandated in terms of Sections 237,238,242,245,248 and 251 of the Constitution to nominate candidates for appointment by the President to serve as Commissioners on the Independent Commissions provided for in Chapter 12 of the Constitution, namely:
- The Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission;
- The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission;
- The Zimbabwe Gender Commission;
- The Zimbabwe Media Commission and
- The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
The Standing Rules and Orders Committee invites the public to nominate persons to be considered for appointment to these commissions. Accordingly, my Ministry adheres to these legal provisions. I thank you.
ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
- HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to explain measures being taken to end child marriages which are on the rise in Zimbabwe.
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam
President, let me start by thanking Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for posing a very important question pertaining to measures being taken to end child marriages which are on the rise in Zimbabwe.
It is indeed a fact that child marriages are rife in Zimbabwe. This is so despite the fact that Section 78 of the Constitution accords marriage rights only to persons who have attained the age of 18 years. Also Section 26(b) compels the State to take appropriate measures to ensure that children are not pledged in marriage. The importance of ensuring that child marriages and any other vices inherent therein are eradicated in our country cannot be understated.
The Marriage Act regulates marriages. Section 22 of the
Marriages Act stipulates that boys below the age of 18 and girls below
16 years can contract a marriage in terms of the Act only with the
Minister’s consent. This Section is inconsistent with the provisions of
Section 78 of the Constitution. It should be noted that this provision was ruled to be unconstitutional by the Constitutional Court as it allowed child marriages. As Hon. Senators may know, the process of aligning legislation to the Constitution is ongoing and the Marriages Act is one of the Acts which are being aligned. There is a Marriages Bill which will deal decisively with the issue of the prohibition of child marriages. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President, I
move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Orders of the Day, Numbers 8 and 9 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE BEIJING TREATY ON AUDIO VISUAL
PERFORMANCES (2012)
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President, I
move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS Section 327 (2) (a) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states of governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe as a member to the World
Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO), signed the Beijing Treaty on
Audio Visual Performances (2012) on the 11th of December 2012. On 5 July 2019 the Public Agreements Advisory Committee (PAAC) approved the recommendation for Zimbabwe to consider ratification of the treaty and on 30 July 2019 Cabinet approved the ratification of the Beijing Treaty by Zimbabwe.
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming party to the Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performances so that it raises the status of performers to professionals thereby improving their working conditions and to facilitate the promotion of the four kinds of economic rights to performers for their performances fixed on audio visual fixations namely; a) the right to reproduction; b) the right to distribution; c) the right to rental and the right to making available;
WHEREAS the Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performances (2012) recognises the rights of performers against unauthorised use of their performances and facilitates the protection of culture, folklore and cultural diversity by contributing to the protection of traditional cultural expressions and national folklore. It also helps strengthen and consolidate local audio visual industries as they join an international system of protection, thereby creating employment to scores of performers, technicians, musicians and actors;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of ratifying the
Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performances (2012);
WHEREAS the entry into force of the aforesaid treaty shall be conditional upon its ratification by Member States in accordance with their constitutional procedures;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2) (a) of the
Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Agreement be and is hereby approved for ratification. I thank you
Madam Speaker Ma’am. Thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. B. MPOFU: On a point of order Mr. President Sir. I think it is becoming systematic in this House that we are ambushed. Yesterday, the Hon. Minister talked about what his intentions where today in terms of the Order that you are talking about, but what has happened is - I have been checking in my pigeonhole since last week – including the education one – it is not in our pigeonholes. I think that it is not fair for us to be taken for granted as Hon. Senators that papers that are supposed to be debated on in this House are not in our pigeonholes.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: If that is the
case, I think you are right. What I have here, because I specifically asked when I came in – I asked the Clerk who was here to confirm that these documents were distributed and I was given this list here after I asked. I have been advised that the Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performances was distributed on 7 August 2019 at 0900 hours in the pigeon holes. Serial No. 4 is the Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performances distributed on 7 August 2019. And then there is 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10
Education Amendment Bill, the Minister’s Amendments distributed on 27 August 2019 at 1245 hours in the pigeon holes.
What it means is that there is something going wrong somewhere in the system. If you are not seeing these documents and I think an investigation is in order. I did query based on the experience which we had during the last sitting when we came. You can see that I am also concerned. What it means is that we will have to undertake some investigation to ensure and find out why these documents are not reaching Senators. We will do that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON ZIYAMBI): I move that the House approves the Beijing Treaty for a number of reasons. The Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual performance will allow the raising of the status of performers to professional, which is a very good thing for our colleagues who are in the audio visual business. What it will do is that it will improve their working conditions and facilitate the promotion of economic rights of these performers.
It also recognises rights of performers against unauthorised use of their performance and facilitates protection of culture, folklore and cultural diversity. On top of that it also helps to consolidate local audio visual industries as they join an international system of protection. This will allow our audio visual industry to greatly improve. In a nutshell, this is what the treaty is about. It will actually help our performers like Macheso, because they will be very happy, because we would have joined the global community in ensuring that their rights protected and also it will enhance the integrity of the industry.
Treaties of this nature, we are just allowed either to approve or not and we cannot amend. There are several advantages in us approving this so that it can be ratified and it will ensure that our arts industry will have the requisite protection and it will be protected. I move that this house approve the Beijing Treaty on Audio Visual Performance so that our artists can join the global village and enjoy the benefits that arise out of it. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I would like to thank the Minister for the presentation that he has made. In my view what he has presented is actually not only remarkable but also very good in terms ensuring that the country sticks international standards. Unfortunately I did not have the document for me to actually interrogate the elements of the document enough to debate it. I am glad our country is moving to international standards. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: I would want to applaud the Minister
for making this presentation. I think it is long overdue that we should join the League of Nations where our artists are exposed to what is happening on the global arena. For years we have lost a lot of talent because our artist used to say there is no business taking this type of a profession because we were not exposed to the outside world.
I would definitely propose that the House do adopt the motion but under a caveat which I hope Mr President with your indulgence, I think this should be the last time when we are asked as a House to approve documents which we have not seen. I will no labour on it because you have already said it – we are doing it for the nation for us to really approve something outside - I think we are doing a shoddy job for the people who seconded us to this august House to preside over their affairs. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I just wanted to
respond to the debate and thank Hon. Mpofu and Hon. Mavetera for the compliment. Indeed this is a very good treaty and I just want to second what they have said. We indeed brought this treaty to Parliament some time ago for circulation to Hon Members and I agree with you that Hon Members must have it so that they will be able to explain what we are doing. You should be able to explain to the young artists what we have done as a country to ensure that their rights are protected.
I agree with that perhaps we need to have a look at it here at
Parliament why documents are not circulated on time so that the Hon Members will be able to debate freely with the documents at hand. I want to thank them. I agree that this is a very progressive piece of treaty that will enhance our image and the status of our performers. Therefore, I move that this House adopts the treaty.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 1B, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
SCHOOLS (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Madam President, allow me
the opportunity to present the second reading speech of the Education Amendment Bill. I am honoured to present to you the Education
Amendment Bill HB.1, 2019. The Education Amendment Bill which was gazetted on 15th February 2019 has gone through the National Assembly and came out with amendments which are captured in the notice of amendments. What it means is that the Bill is now in its refined form. However, let me take this opportunity to say the Education Amendment Bill HB.1, 2019 seeks to address the shortcoming of the 2006 Education Act (Chapter 25:04). The purpose of this Bill is to amend the Education Act [Chapter 25:04], to achieve the following principal objectives:
- the right to a basic State-funded education, including adult basic education, in respect of which the State is enjoined to take measures to progressively realise within the limits of the resources available to it (Section 75 (1) (a) and (4) of the Constitution.;
- the right to further education which the State is enjoined to make progressively available and accessible (Section 75 (1) (b) of the
Constitution);
- the importance of the best interests of the child Section 19 (1) of the Constitution), a child being a person under the age of 18 years
(Section 81 (1) of the Constitution);
- the rights of persons with disabilities to be provided with special facilities for their education and to State funded education and training where necessary (Section 83 (e) and (d) of the
Constitution;
- the right to human dignity (Section 51 of the Constitution);
- the right to freedom form physical or psychological torture or cruel or inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment (Section 53 of the Constitution);
- the right to equality and non-discrimination (Section 56 of the
Constitution);
- the right to language and culture (Section 63 of the Constitution) as read with Section 6 of the Constitution which prescribes the officially recognised languages.
In brief therefore, the bill amends various provisions of the Act so that it complies with these various provisions of the Constitution. It is essential to note that because some of the rights are subject to the availability to the State of resources necessary to enable the enjoyment of the rights, the amendments have been couched so as to take this into account. Similarly, it is also essential to take account of Section 86 of the Constitution with respect to what extent legislation may limit any rights. In more detail the individual clauses of the Bill provides as follows:
- Clause 1 sets out the title of the Bill which is the Education
Amendment Bill.
- Clause 2 Definition of Terms – This clause inserts or amends certain definitions of words and phrases in the principal Act, for example Clause 2 seeks to repeal the word pre-school and substitute it with early childhood development, which refers to the physical, mental and social development of pupils between the ages of four and five years. The clause also provides for definition
of basic state funded education as education from EDC A to the 4th form and adult education up to grade seven. The definition of Government school now includes local authority schools or any school established by a tier of government.
- Clause 3 – Children’s Fundamental rights to education in
Zimbabwe. This clause amends Section 4(2)(b) of the Principal Act by repealing it and inserting a new provision which ensures that no child is discriminated against by the imposition of onerous terms and conditions in regards to his/her admission to any school on the grounds of his or her nationality, race, colour, tribe, place of birth, ethnic or social origin, language, class, religious belief, political affiliation, opinion, custom, culture, sex, gender, marital status, age, pregnancy, disability or economic or social status or whether they were born in our out of wedlock. This provision is in line with Section 56 (3) of the Constitution on the right to equality and non-discrimination. There is also now a provision that every school shall provide sanitary-wear and other menstrual health facilities to girls.
- Clause 4 – Compulsory education. This clause seeks to repeal Section 5 of the Principal Act by inserting new section which provides that every child shall be entitled to basic state funded education. The current Act states that primary education is compulsory and it is the duty of the parent of any child to make sure that such child attends primary school. The new provision places an obligation on the State to fund basic education within the limit of the resources available to it and at the same time ensure progressive realisation of the right to education. Every child is entitled to compulsory basic state funded education and it is the duty of every parent or guardian to make sure that a child attains basic education, failure to do so attracts a criminal sanction.
- Clause 5 – General Duty of Local Authorities. This clause seeks to amend Section 8 of the Principal Act, which mandated the Local Authorities the duty to establish and maintain primary schools that are accessible by all the children within its jurisdiction for purposes of ensuring fairness and equitable access to basic education. The new provision now places the obligation to provide
land for the construction of school infrastructure to every local authority in Zimbabwe. The new provision is a good development as it seeks to promote building or more schools in the country by private organisations and well-wishers.
- Clause 6 – Children’s entitlement to enrolment at nearest schools.
This clause seeks to introduce a new section which repeals Section 10 of the Principal Act on enrolment of school going children to the nearest school. The Bill states that every child of school going age shall be entitled to enrolment at the nearest school to his/her residential place. In the event that the school is fully enrolled, the head of that school shall certify that the school is fully enrolled and allow the possible next nearest school to enrol the child.
- Clause 8 – Prescribing of fees at government schools. The clause repeals Section 13 (4) of the Principal Act and put a new insertion altogether mandating the Minister to take into consideration the location and status of school when prescribing new fees for government school.
- Clause 9 – Registration of Non-governmental schools. The clause amends Section 15 of the Principal Act by inserting subsection (7) which makes it mandatory for non-governmental or private schools to pay a registration and annual fee as may be prescribed from time to time by the Minister. Government and non-profit making faithbased schools are excluded from the payment of registration and annual fees.
- Clause 10 – Adult Education. The clause amends Section 25 of the Act by inserting paragraph (c) which makes it mandatory for every school to offer non-formal education including adult education, subject to the availability of resources. Thus the provision ensures equal access to education by all.
- Clause 11 – Meeting and Procedure of Board. Clause 11 amends
Section 33 (1) of the Act which allows the National Education
Advisory Board to meet as and when the Minister may decide. The new provision mandates the Board to meet quarterly or any other shorter period as the Minister may fix.
- Clause 12 – Languages to be taught in Schools. This clause repeals Section 62 of the Act, which only recognises three main languages as official languages. However, Section 62 is amended to recognise 16 official languages as stipulated in the Constitution. The Bill provides that every school shall endeavour to teach every officially recognised language while making sure that the language of instruction shall be the language of examination. The Bill also ensures that the mother tongue is to be used as a medium of instruction at early childhood education. Section 62 (2) and (3) of the Principal Act is also repealed and insertion of a new provision to promote or uphold the culture of the language that is being taught at any school. There is no exemption or limitation to the application of this section at any registered school. xii. Clause 13 – Health in Schools. This clause seeks to amend Section 64 of the Principal Act by inserting an additional paragraph (k) which provides for the appointment of Sexual and
Reproductive Health (SRH) personnel.
- Clause 14 – This clause amends Section 69 of the Act by inserting (n2) which provides for the use of emerging technologies in education and (n3) which provides for the ‘manner in which feeding schemes may be conducted at schools.’ The clause also inserts (n4) to provide for the management of sexual abuse cases in schools.
- Clause 15 – inserts four new provisions in the Bill. –pupil discipline, Section 68A outlaws corporate punishment in schools in line with the Constitution which prohibits any physical or psychological torture, or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. The Bill also bars the teachers from beating school children in whatever circumstances. The Bill supports other forms of discipline in schools and thus encourages the schools to draw up a disciplinary policy in accordance to the standards set out in regulations to be gazetted by the Minister. The Bill further provides for the right of every child to be heard and have their opinions taken seriously in administrative proceedings affecting them at the school before any suspension for the school is granted.
This provision is welcome as it recognises the rights of children to be heard, based on their evolving capacities and the ability to participate in matters that affects them. The Best Interest of the Child Principle is also being upheld in the Bill. –Pupils with disability – Section 68B mandates every registered school to provide infrastructure suitable for use by pupils with disabilities. The Bill further mandates the secretary to monitor every registered schools to make sure that the rights of pupils with disabilities are provided for and are being met during learning and teaching. In addition, the Bill mandates all registered schools to submit a plan highlighting the extent to which the school is advancing the needs and rights of pupils with disability. The clause also provides for the right of parents and other interested parties to make representations to the responsible authority and the Secretary on infrastructure facilities and teaching and learning materials for pupils with disabilities.
Basic Education Fund – Section 68C provides for the creation of the Basic Education Fund, whose operations shall be guided by the
Audit Office Act (Chapter 22:18) and the Public Finance Management Act (Chapter 22:19). The Bill provides that the fund shall be utilised to finance infrastructure development, payment of fees for pupils who genuinely cannot afford and are not covered under basic state funded educations. The Bill also stipulates that the activities of the fund shall be funded by monies appropriated by Parliament donations, grants or bequests approved by the Minister.
-Non-exclusion of Pupils from School. Section 68 (d) provides a new insertion altogether seeking to protect the rights of children to education by stating that no pupil shall be excluded from school for nonpayment of school fees or on the basis of pregnancy. The provision places an obligation on school authorities to ensure that pregnant girls are allowed to continue with their education regardless of their status while at the same time ensuring that no child is sent back home for nonpayment of fees. This provision attempts to address the social imbalances that currently exist in the Zimbabwe context. Article 11 of the African Charter has been applauded for making provisions that cater for the disadvantaged groups by obliging member states to take affirmative action and measures which protect the female, disadvantaged and gifted children. The non compliance with this section attracts a criminal sanction.
Prohibition of political activities during school time. This new Section 68E prohibits political activities at a school. The obligation is placed on the head of every registered school to make sure that no such activities are held at the school.
Conclusion
The enactment of the Bill is expected to improve access to both primary and secondary education in Zimbabwe. The Education Amendment Bill presents changes in primary and secondary schools which will result in better education in the country. Of major importance is the right to a basic state funded education including adult basic education, whereby the State is being obliged to put in place reasonable measures to ensure progressive realisation of the education right within the limits of the resources available to it. In addition, the Bill recognised the Best Interests of the Child Principle, and the rights of persons with disability in the education sector. Therefore, there is urgent need to ensure that the Bill sees the light of day and enhance the legislative framework in the education sector.
Let me, Mr. President, indicate that the current amendments include Section 68 (c) Basic Education Fund. This was expunged in the National Assembly and stands expunged in the Senate as well. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: What the Minister presented in my view
and also to any progressive person sounds like a plausible and progressive Bill. Unfortunately without labouring the point, I do not have the Bill, I have checked and I go through my pigeon hole systematically every time. It is unethical to check other people’s pigeon holes. I have checked SB’s pigeon hole, he has not even looked at it for several months. That Bill has not been presented to any in this House.
While it is progressive and welcome I cannot talk about the elements of that Bill without seeing what the Minister has said in terms of the actual Sections and elements of the Bill. Personally, it puts me in an awkward position in that we now have to debate something that we have not seen, something that the Minister said eloquently and progressively but at the same time meaning nothing without us seeing what is on paper. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: I do not want to labour on what my
colleague has said. I think it has been a trend and the Education Bill is one of the most important Bills. I think since we started this Parliament, there were so many issues which were being asked by Hon. Members relating to the education of our children in secondary and primary. We were of the opinion that these issues probably would have been addressed by this Bill. Unfortunately, we do not know now whether some of the issues are included in the bill. We may probably ask so many things to the Minister, when they are included in the Bill. If I could just proceed Mr. President Sir, there is an issue, I do not know whether it is addressed or not in the Bill. It is the issue of pupils being chased away from school in private schools, not in public schools. This is because you said Government will cater for public schools so we do not expect anyone to be chased away from school as it will be the obligation of the Government.
I believe that even private schools are governed by the State and we cannot allow pupils’ rights to be violated. The practice of sending pupils back home, teachers announcing at assembly or being stopped at the gate and things like that, I would have been very happy to see how much those issues are addressed by this Bill because it affects pupils. He is not a Minister of public education but he is the Minister of Education for the whole country, private schools included and the rights of those children who go to private schools should be guaranteed. I find it very difficult for me to say should we approve this Bill when those fundamental issues are not addressed. Probably the Minister would have to respond on that because without that I think I would be very hesitant.
Mr. President, that is really the importance of us being respected as a House so that we contribute positively. I think I would stop there. I do not know whether you would allow me when the Minister responds to come back again because this issue to me is very important, because it is a practice which is very prevalent. Why I am so passionate about it – I think the Minister during the time of Questions Without Notice portrayed a situation where with the current laws, the Ministry had no power to deal with private institutions. However, but we thought that problem was now going to be addressed with this new Bill, which we are presented with but we do not know whether it has been addressed or not. Thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
President. Mr. President, in view of the fact that other Members are saying they do not have the Bill, I propose that we adjourn the debate and Parliament administration, maybe by Tuesday, 3rd September ensures that all the Hon. Senators have the Bill so that we can debate without constraints. So I move that the debate do now adjourn.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think that
satisfies everyone. What I would like to urge you all is that do not leave tomorrow and ensure that you have a copy of that. If you leave tomorrow, by Monday morning, ensure that you have a copy of the Bill so that come Tuesday the debate will be from an informed position and without fail, so that we conclude this Business on Tuesday.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 3rd September, 2019.
On the motion of the Minister of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS, the Senate adjourned
at Five Minutes past Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 3rd September,
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 27th August, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: Madam President, I move that
Order of the Day Number One on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August, 2019.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the protection of the environment and the sustainable use of natural resources.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August, 2019.
MOTION
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EMPOWERED ENTITY TO ADDRESS
CHALLENGES AFFECTING PENSIONERS AND POLICY HOLDERS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for a legislative framework on pensions and insurance benefits.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August, 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need of the enforcement of the law on child marriages.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. SHUMBA: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for tabling this very important motion on child marriages.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, may you
raise your voice so that we all hear you?
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I beg your pardon; I thought that the microphone would add more volume to my voice. Thank you Madam
President, I will raise my voice so for everyone’s benefit. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for tabling this motion on early child marriages. I believe this is a matter of underage children who are getting married. Maybe these early marriages of convenience are also being fueled by poverty in their families and orphans who do not have anyone to take care of them and they end up engaging in early marriages. This is not permissible by our Government.
Some of the causes of early marriages are that some men are very greedy and that is very true. Some old men are so greedy to the extent that they lust over beautiful young girls. A lot of young girls are pathetic because they are being lured through things that are not at home and they quickly get hooked and the greedy men take advantage. They will start saying that the young girl is very cheap and can be lured with jiggies and ends up getting married at a tender age. Some girls are attracted to cars – you will find that most of these young girls rush to sit in these fancy cars with grey bearded old men and the old men are proud to have young girls seated next to them.
We sometimes even see some of these things in hotels and are very surprised that this young girl and old man getting into a room are they husband and wife? Is this old man going to share the same room with this young girl? You would wonder if he was going to treat his young daughter the same. You will see that there is greed and lust in these old men and they are abusing young girls. This greed is very bad. Even our traditional leaders want to find young girls with these new Isuzu trucks – the traditional leaders also take advantage of young girls using these Isuzu trucks. You are even surprised to see a traditional leader in the company of a young girl and you wonder who is going to arrest these perpetrators. This motion is very good because men do very bad things with these young girls and it is so pathetic.
After these young girls are used they are dumped. I think that this European culture is very bad for us as Zimbabweans because it promotes prostitution by allowing teenagers to engage in early sexual activities. When they are impregnated at 16 years of age, the end result is to get married but sometimes no one is willing to marry them. We need to revisit some laws although we know that old men love young girls. We have to reject some bad laws and not allow teenagers to engage in early sex. At times you see a very young girl with a very old man and you always see this old man in the company of different young girls. Sometimes when you are in an elevator, you can tell that the old man is smitten with the young girl and you wonder whether they are sane or not. Then the following week he brings a different young girl – these young girls are so pathetic. They are attracted to these luxurious cars and taken to hotels.
I believe that we need stiffer penalties on child perpetrators and even should be arrested and incarcerated if they take advantage of young girls because this greed is very bad. This is a very good motion.
Even young boys are so pathetic and those who take advantage of young boys should be put behind bars. We need stiffer penalties in place in order to protect young people. Young girls should marry at the right age. I sometime wonder how my15 year old grandchildren who cannot even perform simple domestic chores would manage if they were to marry young? I was very happy when I read this newspaper that some parents went to the traditional leader and would have shaken their hands had they been near me for reporting that their child who had eloped at 15 years of age was returned with no lobola having been paid because she was very young. As a responsible parent, you cannot accept to be paid lobola for a 15 year old girl. The traditional leader also confirmed the age of the girl who had eloped and called the police. I was grateful to that traditional leader and the girl’s parents were arrested together with the boy. It would
be good if all of us could emulate this – let us help our children.
Even in this august Senate, we had an Hon. Senator who was always boasting about having 36 wives – young girls included. It is not allowed - are you not ashamed to do such a thing? You have grey hairs yet you want to be seen with young girls – it is very bad Madam President. I applaud Hon. Sen. Tongogara for tabling this motion. Government should be very strict on this issue and impose stiffer penalties to child perpetrators. Greedy men should be put behind bars because they are disrupting the lives of these young girls.
Some church elders lie that a young girl has been revealed to them in the spirit realm because no holy spirit would allow such scandalous things to happen. That is not the Holy Spirit but a very evil spirit – a spirit of prostitution that wants you to take a young girl then you lie that she was revealed to you by the Holy Spirit. We need to seriously consider this Bill that allows teenagers to engage in early sex because that is not acceptable. It only tends to fuel prostitution among young children. We should marry off our children at the right age.
In the past, we used to run away from old men but now we are surprised that young girls go for these old men. Long back, if a boy wanted to see you, you would run away but these young girls are not afraid. When I was in a bus coming to Harare I saw a girl and she was talking about pay forward. When we arrived at our destination the fare was paid by a very old truck driver. Long back if I saw a child like that, I would whip that child. As parents, let us all cooperate and discipline children who engage in those activities. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: I want to thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on this motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. What I have seen is that if a child is an orphan, she can be attracted and lured by sweets and she ends up indulging in premarital sex or getting married at a young age. Traditional chiefs do not allow young girls to be married off or do all those things to do with sex.
We always deal with these issues at our traditional courts.
In Mashonaland West Province we undertook an operation called
“Don’t Disturb a School Child”. These awareness campaigns were done together with the Ministry of Education, Ministry of Home Affairs, ZRP
Victim Friendly Unit, Magistrates Courts, Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Women’s Affairs and all the traditional chiefs. We also invited NGOs like NAC and FACT. When we gathered together we realised that young girls were eloping and we came up with a resolution that every child who was married at an underage has to return back to school and the boy is taken to the police. We also investigated and found that older people and parents from both sides are also involved in taking underage girls. We made a resolution that if the village head does not handle the case very well, he has to be taken to the traditional court to be reprimanded. This operation has helped a lot of children to come back to school. This was a very good programme.
I am encouraging this House that we take this initiative into our respective areas because we have a role to play. We are not supposed to blame each other but we are supposed to work together to make sure that no underage marriages take place. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I would like to
remind Hon. Senators to put your phones on silent or switch them off.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. T. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August 2019.
MOTIONS
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN TOWNS AND
GROWTH POINTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the perennial shortages of clean and potable water in most towns and growth points.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to briefly contribute on this motion raised by Senator Wunganayi on water. I have realised that water has become a very big problem, especially in most towns. Some towns are going for weeks without water and that has led people to go and fetch water in open wells.
Some of those wells flow raw sewerage and people’s health is endangered because that is where they get diseases like typhoid and cholera that claim the lives of people.
In the past we used to hear that when you visit a certain place in rural areas and you come back with stomach problems, you will be asked if you drank the water there. These days rural water has become far much safer because they use boreholes. I also would like to acknowledge the fact that there are boreholes being installed in urban areas, but those boreholes are not enough because we have realised that some people go to those boreholes very early in the morning around 4 a.m which is not good for school children because there will be no water and sometimes diseases break out. When such a thing happens that there is no water and there is an illness, that is when you realise that water is very essential.
Sometimes a person will be suffering from a running stomach, hence the need for that water. Some of the patients will actually mess themselves whilst they are asleep and when you wake up and you realise that the taps do not have water, you start going to queues. In Marondera there was a time when taps were running with green water and it was so dangerous that people were afraid to use it. The water at times would be smelling even if you try to boil that water, it will not be purified. In fact it would become worse because it would be forming on top. That green form covering the water means that you cannot take that water and drink it.
Water is very important, it must be available all the time. I would like to say that water and electricity are essential services that must be available at all times. Sometimes some of the diseases break out because of lack of water are so frightening. In the high density suburbs Mr. President, you find people queuing the whole day at boreholes for one or two containers only. Our urban councils should have water treatment chemicals so that at least people would access treated water at any given time running from their taps. Sometimes what happens is, you are trying to get water and the water is closed and at times you are taking a bath and the water is turned off. Water is a very essential resource that must be available all the time.
When God created the heaven and the earth, there was plenty of water. Even elders can admonish you that do not play around with water, so water is a very important resource that must always be available. You cannot cook without water and there is nothing you can do without water. You cannot even brew beer without water. Therefore, I am saying the Government should assist local authorities to access chemicals to purify water so that people can access clean water. There was a time when people would open their taps and see raw sewage running from those taps. That is a very dangerous thing because the sewage ends up being consumed by people. Even those wells that are being dug by people, sometimes are very dangerous because that water is not safe. I am very grateful for this motion that has been raised, but this motion was raised a long time ago. I wish it would be addressed so that at least people can access clean water so that we do not lose lives be because of unsafe water.
Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice on this motion that was introduced by Hon. Sen. Wunganayi. The issue of water is a very important matter, especially clean water. It is essential for good health to people. The biggest problem that I see Mr. President is that right in our cities, people are now overpopulated. When these towns were designed, there was no plan or anticipation that black people would leave their rural areas to come and live in urban areas.
I remember when we grew up, the father would work in urban areas and go to the rural areas during weekends because that is where their families would stay. This is one of the issues that is causing water problems, leading to pollution and shortages of water. It is because of overpopulation. When these towns were planned, they were designed for a few people and not the overpopulation that we have at the moment. I would like to suggest that if possible in rural areas, growth points should also be developed so that people may live similar lives to those in towns.
The Hon. Senator who just contributed to this debate said, even the rural areas now have better access to clean water. So, I wish that growth points would also be developed to that level. I am very happy that the Government introduced rural electrification programme. People used to run away from the rural areas due to lack of electricity but because of that programme, electricity is now available if ZESA does not switch off. When electricity is available, even in the rural areas it will be there. If only that would happen, it would ensure that people do not migrate from rural areas to urban areas. At the moment, with the huge population that is in the urban areas, the infrastructure would not be able to sustain the population. The situation might even get worse than what it is at the moment.
I also would like to request to Government Mr. President to address the problem of water. Our rivers are also being silted. A motion was raised to that effect. Siltation is also going into our dams, therefore, water also runs dry. My request is, the Government through the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should allocate money for the carrying out of the programme of de-siltation. If God blesses us with good rainfall, we can then be able to store that water instead of letting if flow to the ocean. If we do that Mr. President, we will be in a better position because we may talk and talk about water problems without solution.
Those rivers and dams that are silted should be prioritised in terms of desiltation so that they may store water instead of remaining behind, wondering how we let out all that water that God blessed us with. We may then have water for irrigation, livestock and human beings will also have access to water. It does not matter where you may be but when water is stored in dams and rivers, people can access that water which is essential for hygiene.
I would also like to say in the rural areas, there are boreholes that are being sunk. If we preserve water in the rivers and dams, those boreholes will be able to access that underground water. The water that we see may be preserved. Sometimes we hear of boreholes being sunk as deep as 100 metres yet people have no access to water. How does that happen? We should preserve water in order for our boreholes to be able to access underground water. We will not be able to access water if we do not preserve it. Even when we learn that the borehole is running dry because it will eventually run dry through evaporation process but at least as human beings, as a country and as Government we would have made efforts to try and preserve water for the future. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, I move that the debate
do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August, 2019
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PALIAMENTARY
LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
inform the Senate that I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Maintenance of Peace and Order
Bill [H. B. 3C, 2019].
Consideration Stage: With leave, forthwith.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3C, 2019]
Amendment to Clause 7 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3C, 2019] THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. President, I now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON CANCER TREATMENT AND CONTROL IN
ZIMBABWE
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Cancer Treatment and Control in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President…
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: On a point of order Mr. President, do we have a quorum? I see as if we no longer have a quorum.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am sure we have a quorum.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: May you please check?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We do have a quorum, I
counted. Can you count? There is no doubt about it.
The Senate Sergeant-at-Arms having presented the attendance
register to Hon. Sen. Komichi.
No you can count.
[Bells rung.]
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: There are 27
Hon. Members in the Senate Chamber and the minimum quorum in this Chamber is 26.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion on the report which was brought by Senator Ncube, a motion which touches on health. We are all aware Mr. President that for a person to be able to do whatever they are doing, they are supposed to healthy. We are all here because we are healthy. Those who are not healthy are in hospitals or sick in their homes. The report speaks about cancer and it is very sad that this disease is prevalent in this country of ours. A lot of people do not know about this disease. It is a disease which one can get sick of and it can spread without one knowing. In rural areas people get sick of cancer and they are not aware of the disease. If you ask them you will be told, it is just the whole body because nothing would have been done for that person to be diagnosed. The biggest problem we have with this disease is lack of knowledge. If you are not aware of this disease, it becomes a very big problem.
I am saying the Ministry of Health and child Care should take steps to give our people knowledge. If we are educated it makes life better. I am saying this because when HIV came, education was given and NAC was decentralised to all provinces. I wish NAC is given this job that they go around teaching people about cancer. Cancer is very expensive to treat. If it were possible, what was done on the HIV issue can also be done with cancer. That way, it will assist our people. People are dying - especially rural areas. Even if people in rural areas are diagnosed for them to travel from Dande to Parirenyatwa, that is the issue of bus fare and doctors’ fees which are very prohibitive.
Everyone in the health sector, including the Ministry of Health should put their heads together to see to it that people are assisted. Many a times nothing helps us if we are always here talking about cancer without giving solutions or what we are supposed to do as legislators to help our people. Since it was done before on HIV, let it also be done on cancer to see to it that our people get assistance which they deserve.
I want to applaud what is being done by the First Lady. She is putting all the effort to see that people are treated, but she cannot do it alone. It needs experts from Ministry of Health to see to it that this disease is put under control. It is very difficult for the affected to get treatment. I am suggesting that let us do what was done with HIV. When HIV came about, people were tested for free and they got ARVs for free. That is why we are having a decrease on HIV. If we do the same with cancer, we can be successful in assisting our people who are suffering from this disease in our rural area. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday 28th August, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY’S
BILATERAL VISIT TO THE SHURA ADVISORY COUNCIL IN DOHA
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Speaker of the national Assembly, Hon. Adv J. F. Mudenda’s Bilateral Visit to the Shura Advisory Council, Doha, Qatar, and 30th March to 4th
April.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 28th August, 2019. On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN.
MUNZVERENGWI), the Senate adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes to
Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 7th August, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA) in the Chair)
THE ACTING SPEAKER’S RULINGS
POINT OF ORDER BY HON. T. KHUMALO ON THE LAW USED
BY THE CHAIR TO BAR MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITION FROM
ENTERING THE CHAMBER
THE ACTING SPEAKER: At the commencement of
yesterday’s sitting Hon. T. Khumalo rose on a point of order asking which law the Chair used to bar Members of the Opposition from entering this Chamber. The law that was applied is Standing Order 110 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly. I must briefly state that on that note, Hon. Sikhala correctly guided the Chair that there is a distinction between the Chair, the persona and the individual. Summarily, when sitting in this Chair, regardless of the change in faces, decisions made and pronounced from this Chair are final as stated by Standing Order 206 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly. There is no room for appeal to a new face in the Chair. This matter is accordingly concluded and there shall be no further points of privilege or points of clarity raised on it.
POINT OF ORDER BY HON. CHIKWINYA ON THE PROCEDURE
APPLIED TO WITHDRAW THE ADVERSE REPORT ON THE
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3, 2019]
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Yesterday, the 6th of August, 2019,
Hon. Chikwinya rose on a point of order seeking guidance on which
Standing Order was used to withdraw the Adverse Report on the Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3, 2019] (hereinafter referred to as the “Bill”). The Parliamentary Legal Committee
(hereinafter referred to as the “Committee”) held four meetings to consider the Bill. I will speak to three of the meetings that took place in order to contextualise the procedure that was applied.
After having noted what they viewed as constitutional violations, the Committee resolved to meet the Minister of Home Affairs and
Cultural Heritage, Hon. Mathema. This meeting took place on the 19th of June, 2019. Minister Mathema was away on official duty but was represented by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Ziyambi, who was the Acting Minister of Home Affairs then. In that meeting, the Minister conceded to a number of the Committee’s concerns and promised to bring a Notice of Amendments to address
them.
The Committee proceeded to issue an Adverse Certificate and report on the Bill, after further deliberations in a meeting of the Committee held on the 24th of July, 2019. Accordingly, an announcement was made in this House on the same day indicating that an Adverse Report had been received from the Committee.
On Tuesday the 30th of July, 2019, the Committee of the Whole House sat to consider the Adverse Report issued on the Bill. On that day, Hon. Samukange, the Committee Chair rose to withdraw the Adverse Report. At that point, Hon. Biti suggested that instead of withdrawing the Adverse Report, the Committee of the Whole House should adjourn so that the Parliamentary Legal Committee could go back and consider the amendments proposed by the Minister. This suggestion was dully taken and resulted in a meeting of the Committee held on the 1st of August, 2019, during which the Committee considered amendments proposed by the Minister to resolve the Committees’ apprehensions. In this meeting, the Committee determined that the
Notice of Amendments submitted by the Minister satisfied their views. The Committee then resolved to withdraw its Adverse Report having been satisfied by the Notice of Amendments.
Accordingly, when the matter arose again in Committee of the Whole House on the 1st of August, 2019, Hon. Mataranyika moved a motion that the Adverse Report be withdrawn on the basis that the Committee had received the Notice of Amendments which satisfied their constitutional concerns.
The Committee of the Whole House considered the report in terms of Standing Order 170 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly. During the deliberations of the report, Hon. Mataranyinka moved a motion in terms of Standing Order 173 (a) of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National Assembly. The question as to whether or not there was debate was also put and there was no debate. In terms of Standing Order 175, the Chair of the Committee of the Whole House then reported progress to the Chair of the National Assembly. The
House duly adopted the recommendation of the Committee of the Whole House. Thus the Adverse Report was withdrawn with leave and this is correctly reflected in the Hansard of the National Assembly dated 1 August, 2019.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have only received one apology
from the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National
Housing, Hon. July Moyo
*HON. MADZIMURE: I rise on a point of privilege.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of privilege Hon.
Member?
*HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, it is now seven weeks since I requested the Minister of Home Affairs to come to this House and clarify on the progress made so far to ascertain the whereabouts of Itai
Dzamara – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Mr. Speaker Sir. We want to know whether he is still alive or not so that his family can get closure on this issue. The whole country wants to know what happened to Itayi Dzamara because it is the right of Zimbabweans to be protected by the law. Can the Minister do that now so that the people of Zimbabwe know.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. Like I
said before, we are still continuing with the investigations so there is nothing I can say. I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have received other apologies from the following Ministers. I want to announce other apologies from
Ministers Hon. Member. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
-
Hon. Minister Ncube for State Security; Hon. Ndlovu, the Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. Haritatos, the Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement; and Hon. S. B. Moyo, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
HON. K. PARADZA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I rise on behalf of 350 Members of Parliament here. I want to thank His Excellency the President Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa that for the first time since independence, our Hon. Members are going to have diplomatic passports – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Mr. Speaker, therefore we would like to whole heartedly thank His Excellency for extending this privilege to all Members of Parliament whether from the opposition or ruling party, they are going to get diplomatic passports starting next week.
Both sides of the House started singing different songs.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, may we have
order in the House. I am going to send you out. I am actually seeing what is happening in the House.
HON. K. PARADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. As I said that this is the first time since independence and it was only this Parliament within the region and within the continent or even throughout the world that Members of Parliament did not have diplomatic passports. So as I said, we would want to thank the President for that gesture. However, Mr. Speaker Sir, there is a caveat to this. All those who are going to abuse these passports; they are going to be withdrawn. Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
+HON. S. K. MGUNI: I will talk representing people in
Matabeleland North. This last Saturday, the 3rd of August, 2019 this year we had three different elections, firstly we had elections for a Member of Parliament in Lupane. We were contesting against many political parties and one of them being MDC Alliance, MDC-T and the other political parties that are in Zimbabwe. I would like to congratulate Matabeleland North. We also had elections for councillors in Nkayi which is also in Matabeleland North. All the other opposition political parties were contesting including MDC-Alliance led by Chamisa, ZANU PF, MDC-T and LEAD.
We would like to congratulate ZANU PF again because ZANU PF won the elections. As I said, we had three elections; we had another election in Bubi. These were elections for councillors and again ZANU PF won the elections. I would like to congratulate ZANU PF and our leader, President E. D. Mnangagwa. I would like everyone to see the
President E. D. Mnangagwa’s vision because that is the party that can lead the people. I would like to congratulate our President for being such an excellent leader, the new councillors and the new MP Mbongeni. Thank you.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on a
point of privilege to thank His Excellency the President Cde. E.
D.Mnangagwa for taking the noble decision to declare the ElNino induced 2018/19 drought a national state of disaster. This decision by the President is going to enable upwards – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, the point of privilege I am making is to the benefit of all Zimbabweans. It would be appreciated if the opposition were to listen. The decision by His
Excellency the President Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa is going to result in the
United Nations coming in to support us with US$33m for drought relief
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I am going to send
some of you out of the House. You do not have to point, I have got eyes to see and I see who is making noise.
HON. KASHIRI: Mr. Speaker Sir, the wisdom by His Excellency E. D. Mnangagwa to declare a state of national disaster has opened doors for the World Food Programme to come on board and also to assist the nation with more than US$30m in support of food relief, drilling of boreholes and provision of clean water. I stand to applaud His
Excellency for this good measure. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We now
have something like eight weeks after the Speaker gave a ruling that the Minister of Local Government was to come and answer to our questions, of which this matter was later brought up again by Hon. Hamauswa the issue of the water crisis in Zimbabwe. This is affecting rural and urban communities. We are appealing that the Minister comes to this House and address the nation on the plans of Government regarding this. The budget which was presented in this House this week does not have a provision of clean water supplies. I am appealing that this matter be expedited.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, the Minister has
actually extended his apology, he is not in the House.
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of privilege Hon. Speaker.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of privilege? No
more points of privilege.
HON. MAMOMBE: It is very important that I rise this Mr.
Speaker. The Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has never stepped in this House. We have questions in terms of our foreign affairs issues; we should get an apology or an explanation why the Hon. Minister is not coming to Parliament.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Your point is noted. Hon. Member,
the Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has actually extended his apology –
[HON. MEMBERS: Everyday!] –
HON. DINAR: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of privilege?
HON. DINAR: A ruling was made that a response was going to be made in three weeks, now it is three months. The Hon. Minister is present today...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I am going to send you out right
away.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, I rise to move that Orders of the Day Nos. 1 to 2 be stood over until Order No. 3 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3, 2019]
Second Reading: Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3,
2019].
SECOND READING
MAINTAINANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS ND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. Section
117, of our Constitution exhorts the Legislature, among other things, to make laws for the peace, order and good governance of Zimbabwe. It is not by chance that these three things, peace, order and good governance keep company with each other in the same sentence. I will go further and say peace and order are the pre-conditions for enjoying all the other blessings we desire for ourselves – family, prosperity, community, the pursuit of knowledge and happiness, freedom, self determination and security to property.
No matter what our differences maybe, peace and order afford us the time to think and urge among ourselves, how we may improve if we have gone wrong. As Aristotle once said, “the use of rational speech is more distinctive of human beings than the use of their limbs”. I will not rehearse for Hon. Members the history of how law and order legislation has been used and abused since colonial times in our country, how the
Law and Order Maintenance Act was succeeded by the Public Order and
Security Act (POSA) and how it is now proposed to be replaced by this Bill before you. Suffice to say that POSA itself under went several amendments to moderate its provisions since it was enacted in 2002.
Most notably, in 2007, the Public Order and Security Amendment
Number 18 of 2007, which was partly the result of an inter-political party consultation process. This Bill too has been subjected to searching cross-party scrutiny by the Parliamentary Legal Committee resulting in several amendments that are embodied in the Order Paper. Some concessions were made by the Government with a view to strengthening the constitutionality of the Bill, others were made in the spirit of wanting to achieve consensus across political party lines.
I will also not go into any detail about the particulars of the Bill; the Explanatory Memorandum appended to the Bill is sufficient for that, though I will highlight a couple of its salient features. As a matter of general principle, no reasonable person can dispute the need for a wellregulated community to make some legal provisions for the orderly and dignified conduct of public assemblies and processions as long as the legal measures in question fairly respect the rights, freedoms and interest of participants and non-participants alike.
Part of the inspiration for POSA was the Public Order Act of England and Wales, enacted in 1986 mostly on the basis of recommendations by the UK Law Commission. That Act requires at least six clear days’ written notice to be given to the police before most public processions, including details of the intended time and route and giving the name and address of at least one person proposing to organise it. It creates offences for the organisers of a procession if they do not give sufficient notice or if the procession diverges from the notified time or route. It also empowers the police to impose conditions on processions to prevent serious public disorder, serious criminal damage or serious disruption to the life of the community. There are provisions also to prevent hate speech at public assemblies.
If we were to consider these provisions in the light of our own Constitutional freedoms, a critic using an unreasonably strict interpretation might conclude that they offend against the freedom of assembly and freedom of speech but as will be pointed out below the rights and freedoms of demonstrators are not the only rights and freedoms at stake here.
Another more direct inspiration for POSA and for its proposed replacement, the Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill is the Regulation of Gatherings Act of South Africa. we challenge any critic of our proposed law to compare our provisions with those of the South African Act and to point out to us in what particular way the South African Act better than ours with respect to the following matters:- the notification of public gatherings, police powers to prohibit and regulate public gatherings, the use of force by police to disperse unruly gatherings, the zone within which gatherings may not be allowed around certain public buildings and offences and penalties for non-compliance with the Act. In every case, it will be found that our provisions are reasonable and comparable and in some cases even more favourable.
As regards Clause 14, (Persons to carry identity documents) of the Bill, we have concluded in the Notice of Amendments to be presented before you at the Committee Stage that no police officer ought to demand the production of an identity document from anyone except upon reasonable suspicion that that person has committed some offence. Very often, the mere production of such an ID will dissolve suspicions of criminality and hence make an arrest unnecessary. I wish also to
draw your attention to Clause 18 which specifies the circumstances under which the Defence Forces may be summoned to assist the police.
This provision is included incompliance with Government’s obligations under Section 213 of the Constitution. Our Government has welcomed any criticism of the Bill made in an open and constructive spirit with aview to improving it but cannot do anything about vague and unspecific accusations made primarily with the object of discrediting our country, unjustifiably in the eyes of the international community. As with any law, a balance must be struck between the rights and freedoms of individuals and the interests of the community at large.
Many kinds of meetings have been put outside the scope of this Bill as you can tell by consulting the Schedule to the Bill. The State is concerned only with those gatherings, processions and marches primarily but not exclusively of a political nature in which partisanship and bad feeling may get out of hand to the detriment of the rights and freedoms of others. Considerations of public health may also make it incumbent upon Government to regulate gatherings.
In conclusion, the Government objects strongly to the characterisation of the Bill as ‘undemocratic’ without specifying in what specific respects the Bill is ‘undemocratic’ or how it violates the charter of rights and freedoms in any way not contemplated in a democratic society. The rights and freedoms of demonstrators are not the only rights and freedoms to be considered when a gathering has the potential to become disorderly. Other human beings have rights and freedoms too, in particular those who may be victimised in their persons and property by unruly demonstrators. To quote in part from Section 87 of our Constitution:
“(2) The fundamental rights and freedoms set out in [the
Declaration of Rights and Freedoms] this Chapter may be limited only in terms of a law of general application and to the extent that the limitation is fair, reasonable, necessary and justifiable in a democratic society based on openness, justice, human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all relevant factors including – (b) the purpose of the limitation, in particular whether it is necessary in the interests of
defence, public safety, public order, public morality, public health, regional or town planning or the general public interest; and (d) the need to ensure that the enjoyment of rights and freedoms by any person does not prejudice the rights and freedoms of others.”
The same provision of the Constitution urges lawmakers to consider whether there are any less restrictive means of achieving the purpose of the limitation. This we have striven to do in the amendments to the Bill that are embodied in the Order Paper.
I therefore urge Members on both sides of this House to support this very necessary measure to secure peace and order in our beloved country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Bill be read for the Second time.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Chikwinya, you will get the chance to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – HON. CHIKWINYA: I rise on a point of order purely to try and rail road the procedures of Parliament into the correct direction.
When this Bill was read for the first time, it was referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee and an adverse report was produced after a meeting of the PLC as you have read earlier in your announcement. After the adverse report was issued, the Bill was withdrawn and amendments were done to the adverse report. As alluded to by the Minister in his reading, the amendments do not appear on the Order Paper despite him referring that they are in the Order Paper.
It is unprocedural that the Minister ambushes Members of
Parliament and expects them to debate this Bill. We cannot debate a Bill
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We cannot debate a
Bill whose amendments are supposed to be appearing on the Order Paper but are not there, neither are they in our pigeon holes. That is number one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Go ahead Hon. Member.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Hon. Speaker, this Bill goes at the fundamental roots of our engagement drive for Zimbabwe to become a member of the community of nations. If we are going to fast track this Bill for petty political reasons, putting cosmetic lipstick into a process which is supposed to liberate and actually deepen our democratic fundamentals, we will be doing ourselves a disfavour. We therefore need to see the amendments – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
Hon. Speaker, Members of Parliament cannot be expected to put up meaningful debate with the Hon. Minister referring to the Order Paper which does not contain the same amendments. I therefore move that this debate be adjourned until the amendments appear on the Order Paper, then we can come here and debate.
HON. CHIKOMBO: I second.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chikwinya.
I have already ruled on the matter and the amendments will be on the Order Paper at the end of the Second Reading. The withdrawal as ruled, was based on the agreement between the Parliamentary Legal Committee and Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. CHIKWINYA: How then are Members of Parliament
expected to debate? I expect a ruling. The effect of your ruling Hon. Speaker is that the debate must equally be adjourned until the amendments appear on the Order Paper because as Members debate, they must refer to the Order Paper. We must not create room for ambushing Members of Parliament. On what basis are we going to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Chikwinya, Hon. Chikwinya, I
do understand and appreciate....
HON. CHIKOMBO: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. We cannot debate something that is not on the Order Paper. The amendments should be put on the Order Paper and we debate.
HON. HAMAUSWA: It is stated, refer to the Order Paper meaning that the amendments are supposed to be on the Order Paper.
HON. S. SITHOLE: The Americans have poured a lot of money
in this Bill, this Bill will pass I am talking as Cde Sithole S. I am saying so. We know you have interest you MDC people including the Americans.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. We are
going to allow the Minister to put the amendments on the Order Paper and the debate will resume tomorrow, 8th August, 2019 – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [AN HON. MEMBER: Most indebted Hon.
Speaker.]
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL
HERITAGE (HON. MATHEMA): I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th August, 2019.
MOTION
FINANCE BILL: BUDGET DEBATE
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion that leave be granted to bring in a Finance Bill.
Question again proposed.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving
me the opportunity to add my voice to this very important debate. Mr. Speaker, I bring greetings from the people of Wedza North
Constituency. Mr. Speaker Sir, after they went through the Budget Statement, they gave me their recommendations that I am pleased to favour the Ministry with.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I humbly submit the following; it was a general feeling by the people of Wedza North Constituency that there should have been a separation of the Mid-Term Budget Review from the Supplementary Budget. We are cognisant of the fact that the former feeds into the latter, meaning the Mid-Term Budget Review will actually feed into the Supplementary Budget – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Deputy Chief
Whip, please take your seat. Hon. Members, it is very difficult for interpreters to hear what the Hon. Member is saying, may you lower your voices please. Hon. Musabayana, may you resume your debate.
HON. MUSABAYANA: When you look at the Mid-Term Fiscal
Policy, it is supposed to be evaluated because it was the first time that this frame of austerity for prosperity was implemented – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important to evaluate the policy because any policy framework is supposed to take care of the core macro-economic factors, which are economic growth, productivity and production, the employment fundamentals, the trade and above all the inflation. Mr. Speaker Sir, there was need for us as a House to have time to review how effective the economic policies implemented are towards the economic growth. We are also supposed to look at its impact in terms of agriculture, mining, manufacturing and our trade. So, in that regard, it was important that we gave it more time for evaluation before merging it with the Supplementary Budget. It was also important to put to test this new economic framework in so far as inflation is concerned because we need to check and see if this stabilisation of inflation is sustained into medium to long term and thus make informed decisions to continue or discontinue either framework.
We may also have challenges with the inter-bank rate because we are not sure that this interbank rate will be sustained, why - because it was introduced in the midst of the tobacco selling season. So, we also need to put it to test and see if the trend will be sustained after the selling season has been wound down. What we then need to do is to separate the mid-term Budget Review and the Supplementary Budget. It is important that we were supposed to reflect on it and be able to apply critical thinking skills as we put it to test and make sure that we can move on with it. Any model that we have must be put to proper test before we continue with it.
I also want to turn to the Supplementary Budget. On the recommendations that I have for the Supplementary Budget, we are not sure if the Ministry has moved away from austerity to prosperity to the new theme that we now have. The first recommendation is on production. We think that this economy needs stimulation to give impetus to the productive sector. Our production as reflected in the economic growth figure is said to be below 2% calls for stimulation in critical sectors like agricultural. According to the FAO Report of 2018, we need at least US$1.2 billion to normalise the agricultural sector but if we look at the $3.3 billion that is in the budget, it is about
US$300.000.000.00 which falls short of the Mozambican Declaration of 2003. This declaration benchmarked 10% as minimum threshold to improve competence in the agricultural sector. If you look at the agricultural sector outlook for 2019/20 season, the sad news is that only
50% of seed has been bought to date from the Tobacco Research Board. This shows that there is going to be slackening in production of the golden leaf. It is sad to receive such news when there are great opportunities in the next season. Why do we have great opportunities in the next season? Northern China is experiencing one of its worst drought in 40 years. Northern China is the main tobacco producer for Chinesse there is huge demand for our tobacco from China. We had a delegation from China last week which came to assess our preparedness to produce the golden leaf and they highlighted the need to increase production.
We also have more than 40 million metric tonnes which used to be procured by China from the United States of America. Now, because of the ensuing trade war between China and America, China has cancelled an order of 40 million tonnes, which gap is supposed to be filled by the Zimbabwean tobacco. So, in terms of our state of preparedness for the tobacco sector we need to chip in as Government and supply more funding to the tobacco sector. When you look at the tobacco farmers, we are saying they were given 50% forex of which 50% was surrendered at the interbank rate of $3 then but as we speak, the rates of fertilizers have moved up tenfold. This means that most of the tobacco farmers will not be able to put up a decent crop this farming season.
Now coming to the fertilizers, there is a serious deficit of fertilizers in the country. For the past 12 years, there have been fertilizer deficit for both basal and top dressing. Most of the base fertilizer that we are getting is coming from Russia, Ukraine and Turkey. For this fertilizer to come in here, it has become a $1000 or an equivalent of US$100 more expensive per tonne because of the duties imposed on base fertilizer. Therefore, we are recommending a waiver or suspension of duty of fertilizer for the next three years. If we suspend duty on fertilizers they become cheaper. At the moment, we do not have capacity to produce fertilizer in this country. ZFC, Windmill and Sable chemicals do not have capacity. As for ZFC and Windmill, their granulators are antiquated and they have no capacity to meet domestic demand. In tha light there is no point in availing forex to those institutions who do not have capacity to produce the fertilizer. So, it is better for the economy to import fertilizers duty free. Last year one of the major challenges we had in Command Agriculture was the shortage of fertilizer. Yes, drought contributed but most of the challenges the economy faced are attributable to the shortage of fertilizers. The top dressing and even some of the compound fertilizers were not available. So, we need a waiver on the duty for fertilizers.
I also want to turn to the issue of maize. The production of maize in this economy is very important because it is one of our key staple food. Maize also used to be exported when the conditions were right. So, I am proposing that we need to improve the supply of maize and wheat grains in this country. To supply more corn and wheat in this economy, we also need to look at the tariff regimes that we have for those commodities. At the moment, you cannot import flour though there is a serious shortage of flour in the country. This is because of the duty on flour. We also recommend that we suspend duty on flour products so that there is improved availability of flour into the country as well as for raw materials that are important for the production of flour. It is a misconception in this country that flour is the only important ingredient in the production of bread. There are other improvers and premixes that are imported for the production of bread and duty should also be removed from the same so that we improve the livelihoods of our people. I want to recapitulate that we suspend duty on maize and wheat grains and the flour products.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, I seek clarity from Hon. Member. He referred to some terms that we have never had like raw maize. The people who are listening in the Gallery and in the constituencies do not understand what raw maize is. They are expecting to see maize coming to their constituencies and the Hon. Member is talking of raw maize. We want him to explain what raw maize is.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: There is no point of order there.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, it is maize
that has not been processed and where value addition has not taken place. It can be called raw maize or just corn.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to move to the issue of power in this country. There is serious shortage of power in the country and I appreciate the Minister has wavered duty on solar batteries but it is also important Mr. Speaker Sir that you also look at other products that are related to power generation. They should be given a relief and I recommend that we not only remove duty but, we must also suspend even VAT on alternative power products so that we boost availability of power in this country.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
Yesterday, Members raised a pertinent item with the Chair where it was ruled that during the debate of such nature, with regards to finance and matters of budget, the Minister must be in the House. At that particular moment, the Minister gave an apology because he was meeting foreign dignitaries and therefore requested 40 minutes and he surely came back. May we be told of the reason why the Minister has not respected the House today to the extent that he is out when we are discussing a matter of prominence and pertinence which pertains to the budget which he crafted? Thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order in the House. The Hon.
Minister of Finance and Economic Development gave an apology to me. He is coming back. He is attending to other pertinent business. There he is.
The Minister of Finance and Economic Development walked into the House.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On the
issue of power in this country, it is sad that we have such serious power shortages in this country. I was shocked when I heard Hon. Biti the former Minister of Finance and Economic Development saying that there was US$6.5 billion that he left in the coffers. Mr. Speaker, that is the highest level of irresponsibility and ignorance. How could you keep US$6.5 billion in the coffers yet there are serious challenges with power in this country? If Hon. Biti had committed US$6.5 billion to develop or to commit it to the development of Batoka Gorge whch requires onlu US$4.5 billion we would have gone a long way in terms of solving our power challenges by generating 2200 megawatts.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is also said that Hon. Biti left $6.5 billion in the coffers yet the roads are in dire state of disrepair that they are today. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I think Hon. Biti is the worst Minister who has ever occupied office in this country. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
HON. NDEBELE: Mr. Speaker Sir, on a point of order. You have allowed him to go on a tirade against Hon. Biti and he is flouting all rules in the rule book. If this continues to happen, we will sing, we are able to sing. So, I am inviting you to ask him to withdraw what he has been saying about Hon. Biti. The Hon. Member needs to concentrate on the figures. He needs to speak to the budget. Ukasa withdrawer, you will not be able to debate.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I understand the Hon. Member was only responding to what Hon. Biti said. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to withdraw the statement that I made that Hon. Biti was irresponsible in leaving US$6.5 billion in the coffers yet we do not have power in this country.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order. You cannot allow him to repeat the same offensive statement, he is not withdrawing. You need to take charge of this House makudhererwa pano apa.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, going forward,
I want to recommend to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development that he must not be over-centred on balances in the coffers. We must focus on deploying resources to the needy areas of the communities. We must deploy resources to capital needs like the construction of infrastructure like roads; the construction of power infrastructure like the hydro power stations like Batoka which I said should have been fixed during Hon. Biti’s time and sadly he failed to do
- I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. May the owner of the car AES 6137 go and remove it, it is actually obstructing other cars that would want to go out.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to add my voice as follows. I am going to make proposals as follows ...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you approach the Chair
Hon. Nduna please.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing me
to also add my voice on the budget. Hon. Speaker, first and foremost, I want to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – First and foremost, I want to approach my debate to this agenda item on points of procedure, Section 141 of our Constitution– [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, I want to approach this debate firstly, on a point of procedure. Matters to do with revenue collection and expenditure are largely to do with the people’s money, including taxes.
In terms of Section 141, when Parliament is debating such laws we must be given an opportunity to consult our constituencies. I will read to you Hon. Speaker Section 141, “Parliament must facilitate public involvement in its legislative and other processes in the processes of its Committee to ensure that interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament”. Now, Hon. Speaker, the Hon.
Minister has not given us ample time to consult our constituencies with regards to matters of this budget. We are expected to pass this budget by tomorrow as read out by the Leader of the House when he suspended the
rules.
We will be doing ourselves a disfavour and we will be contravening Section 117 of the Constitution that says Parliament derives its power from the people and therefore, we must be given an opportunity to consult our people. Secondly, as a matter of procedure and process, the – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, please can you
lower your voices.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Every time a budget is presented, it must be premised on assumptions. I have gone through the budget statement by the Hon. Minister. There are no assumptions of this budget which must then shape and inform the budget. You must be able to say if we are going to earn RTGS1.2billion through gold, what are the assumptions? If we are going to earn RTGS1million tonnes of maize, what are the assumptions, are we going to have drought or rainfalls? There are no assumptions to this budget and it is a fundamental departure from all the budget presentations which have been presented before Parliament. Thirdly Hon. Speaker, and this is quite fundamental, when we passed the budget in December 2018, our rate was 1:1 between the US and the RTGS. So, one million dollars which we passed for a particular vote in December 2018 does not even reflect as one million dollars today. It was then devalued by a factor of nine or the prevailing interbank rate. However, in his presentation, the Hon. Minister in the Blue Book combined these figures. He takes the budget as of December and the budget as of July and combines the figures as if the value of the money was the same. It is not the same.
What the Hon. Minister was supposed to do was to give us a budget performance as per the RTGS budgeted value in December and how it performed. I am obliged to agree with Hon. Musabayana to say that we need to separate the budget review and the supplementary budget. What is supposed to happen by procedure is that we are supposed to review the budget and we are given its performance that we had budgeted 4 billion and we have so far consumed 4.2 billion, we are in shortfall of 200 million and this is what we managed to achieve. That being reduced to the current interbank rate, it is only after having seen that we can then approve that Minister for us to get to December again, we need to supplement this much and to these sectors, we have not done that. I will go to the 5 key issues which I have managed to identify Hon. Speaker.
The budget has a deficit of the social services. Yesterday, speaker after speaker mourned; in fact there was a pledge by one of the Hon. Members to say before we even discuss the supplementary budget, let us first of all address the fundamentals. What is the biggest revenue source? We found it to be the civil servants, we are over taxing them. How much are they getting and it was resolved yesterday that before we discuss anything about this budget, let us make sure that the civil servants have earned enough money for them to survive. Let us make sure that the war veterans have earned enough money for them to survive, the social services, it was resolved yesterday that before we even pass this budget – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, please lower your voices Hon.
Members.
HON. CHIKWINYA: It was resolved yesterday Hon. Speaker
Sir, that we must take a look at what our pensioners are going through –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have order in
the House, please lower your voices.
HON. CHIKWINYA: It is fundamentally right for the Hon. Minister of Finance to declare a surplus. The Hon. Minister of Finance has bragged and said he is the first Minister of Finance to be able to declare a surplus. We are declaring a surplus when our social services have gone down, when people are dying out of lack of medicine in our hospital, when our roads are full of portholes, when we cannot pay for electricity and our houses are going for more than 18 hours without electricity, when there are fuel queues. So, what kind of a surplus do we have in a budget? The fundamental question is therefore Hon. Minister, despite all the social ills which you have created with your austerity for posterity principle, if you have a surplus, why do you need a supplementary budget? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – You are bragging that you have a surplus why then do you need a supplementary budget for? You are like a father who goes to the bank and say I have enough money in my account but your children have got nothing to wear and nothing to eat, are you a real father? You must be able to safeguard the social net; this budget is not safeguarding the social net. We cannot pass a budget that does a 500% increment in ZESA, 100% increment in all other services but a 48% increment in civil servants’ salaries, that is an inhumane budget and a toxic budget – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Hon. Speaker, this budget is overlapped by over taxations. My biggest problem with the Hon. Minister of Finance is that when he is speaking to this Parliament, he is not seeing representative of
Zimbabweans, he is speaking to IMF and the Briton Woods institutions, and I beg the Hon. Minister to come back and face realities of Zimbabwe. I beg the Hon. Minister to be able to relive the life of a woman in Mbizo, in Dotito, a woman who is failing to access bread, who is failing to access sanitary pads. This budget must be able to respond to issues raised by parliamentarians, it was raised by Members of Parliament across the political divide that sanitary pads must be for free.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Paradza is sitting directly facing you and he has been saying iwe gara pasi, iwe gara pasi, and you are facing him and you have not reprimanded him.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Paradza, may you please stop
doing that.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Zimbabwe is not
Switzerland. We cannot sustain our budget by over taxation; I will refer you to Annexure 16 of the Budget; approved fees Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure Development. For a transport operator who owns an 18 seater mini bus, he has to go through eight forms of taxes before he even picks up passenger; he has to go through the light motor vehicles for 10 dollars, he has to go through abnormal size permit for 150 dollars; he has to go through the vehicle licence fee for 300 dollars. In total the eight licences which he has to go through just at registration amounts to RTGS$1475 before he has even picked up one passenger. We cannot over tax our people.
Hon. Speaker, I will move over to the issue of accountability. The Public Accounts Committee sat about two weeks ago and one of the major highlights which were produced is that in December of 2017, three billion dollars was allocated to the Command Agricultural Programme and it was used within a space of three months. How do we continue as Parliament to give an opportunity to the Minister to give money to a programme that is unaccounted for? Every year we are sinking in money to the Command Agriculture Programme not that it is bad, we want our farmers to be able to progress but we need accounting. The Ministry officials failed to account for three billion. When asked in this Parliament, the Hon. Minister referred to Members of the
Opposition as baboons and monkeys because he was failing – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: That was withdrawn, Hon. Member.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. We must come
to a point whereby we go Vote by Vote not at Committee stage but even at this Second Reading Stage to the extent that the Minister must be able to justify that, of the two billion which we gave to the Ministry of Defence what was it used for. This is the process which we go through every time we have a pre-budget process and it takes me back to the issue of - yes, Hon. Minister, we understand that you are in a hurry to pass this Mid Term Budget because the House is on fire, but we also risk doing more damage if we do not consult. The Hon. Minister was supposed to come to us and say of the money which you gave me in
December, this is what I have used and we see if our budgeting formula in principle is working. Now, he is coming here seeking more money without being accountable. We cannot be a Parliament which continuously pumps out money through the tax payers without consulting them.
I will go to the non-performance of the energy sector. The Hon. Minister boasts of 800 million dollar surplus in terms of RTGS reduced today’s interbank rate, it comes to 80 million. If I was him, I would take 60 million and pay it towards power so that at least we encourage production. What we are currently doing is to suppress production and in a country like Zimbabwe, if we suppress production, we cannot generate revenue. Industries are spending 18 hours closed because there is no power. Why can we not deliberately use the surplus to pay for ZESA import through ESKOM and Cabora Basa so that at least industries begin to work and then we have production where we have been collecting taxes. Why do you want to collect taxes on pay as you earn, you cannot run a country on pay as you earn where there is 90% unemployment. I therefore beg for the Minister to reconsider that.
Fuel has gone up for more than five times in two months but every time it goes up the queues remain the same. What is the Minister doing with this Mid Term Budget for him to be able to announce in this House and say that, ‘with this money which you have given me, I am dedicating towards the fuel sector, fuel queues are going to disappear’. I asked this question in this House and I was promised by Hon. Chasi that from the day he was appointed fuel queues were going to disappear within two weeks – up to now queues are running in kilometres.
As we pass this budget, we must be alive to the effect that once we are dedicating people’s money towards this project, of what positive effect for that matter is it going to give to the people of Zimbabwe? In his response Hon. Minister, when are we going to have power in our houses, when are we going to have disappearance of fuel queues through the money which he has come to Parliament to seek? We are the Parliament; how much money does he want for him to be able to make the queues to disappear?
Hon. Minister Ncube, by his own admission, he is quoted as saying, “ when I came to become Finance Minister, I thought it was a job with regards to finance and economics but I have to come realise that it is all about politics”. He was right, I agree with him. Let us be able to relieve pressure on this Hon. Minister. He must go back to his principal and advise him that the underlying fundamentals of this country are the bad politics of this country. We can debate budgets and budgets, day in and day out but without solving the fundamental politics of this country these budgets will come to no fruit. There must be dialogue between contesting parties. It is a fact that there are disputed elections and in the absence of a dialogue between the contesting parties, these budgets may come in their billions but they will not pass. Even if these budgets come in their billions, the people of Zimbabwe will not be able to enjoy because we are budgeting for nothing since the political fundamentals have not been addressed. Hon. Mthuli Ncube, his principal and the
Cabinet must be able to sit down with all political parties.
HON. KASHIRI: On a point of order! The Hon. Member should stop politicising the budget. Let him debate on facts according to the budget not to politicise the budget in here.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please, refrain from
politicizing the budget.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. In a matter between Jonathan Moyo versus the Speaker of Parliament of 2010, the matter of 2009, Justice Chidyausiku ruled that Parliament is the biggest assembly of politicians. Therefore, we cannot divorce matters to do with the budget and public finance with politics because politics is the underlying factor. I therefore conclude by saying, I beg that the Hon. Minister of Finance must be able to come and tell us how much money, not in percentage format; we are seeing this trend whereby the Minister says I gave civil servants 63 million. If you look on the face of it, it is as if it is a lot of money but if you divide the 63 million by the total number of civil servants, each civil servant got 26 dollars. If you look again at the cushioning allowance where the Hon. Minister says again 400 million divided by the number of civil servants, each civil servant got
320 dollars which is nothing. We do not want cushioning allowance.
The Hon. Minister must stand up at the appropriate time and tell us that the lowest paid civil servants are going to be above the tax threshold. You cannot have a civil servant who is not being taxed. They have raised the tax threshold to 700 dollars, so expect a teacher to earn 400 dollars which is half of the tax threshold. Next time we want the Hon. Minister not to tell us the blanket sum which has been given but the individual sum to be given to each lowest paid worker in Government.
We also want this increase to be based on the prevailing bread basket rate, we want the trade unions to be consulted. We want all worker representatives and the employer representatives to be consulted so that when we adjust this budget, we are responding to the needs and the practical issues which the people of Zimbabwe are facing. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me this opportunity to seek clarification and also make proposals – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, can you please go
ahead.
HON. NDUNA: Hon. Speaker, there are just a few issues that I want to propose to the Minister. The first issue that I want to applaud him for is the issue of removal of duty on equipment that is used by the war veterans that are disabled....
THE ACTING SPEAKER: May you address the Chair Hon.
Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I say this as it is enshrined in Section 3 of the Constitution that realises and recognises the war of umvukela. I applaud him but I go further to say; if he can remove completely the duty on equipment used by people that are differently abled. I dare not say disabled because there is 15% in this nation of people that are differently abled. Of that 15%, only 1% of that are able to access money in order to purchase any equipment in particular that which they need to use for their own upkeep – the wheel chairs, braille, visual impairment and for those that are light in skin (albinos) need creams and lenses for their eyesight. I implore the Minister; I could go on my knees to ask him to completely eradicate duty on that equipment. I have already put the numbers Mr. Speaker Sir. I am willing to support this Supplementary Budget if it comes with that face.
The second issue that I want to applaud the Minister on is the issue of infrastructure development. On Vote 11, he has increased the supplementary by $761 million. He has taken it to a billion something up from $400 million. Applaudable as that may be, I go further to propose the following, there is what is called the maintenance reserve account which has arisen because of the Plumtree-Mutare 821 kilometres that was DBSA loan financed to the tune of US$206 million. We have not yet exhausted repayment of that debt. I ask with the powers that are vested in the ‘gold finger’, the Minister of Finance that he implores the Minister of Transport to unlock the value of that maintenance reserve account so that the money can be utilised immediately before it loses value.
I say this because at some point, it was ring fenced and it was
US$32 million when I ceased being the Chairperson of the Transport
Committee. The finances have since transformed and there is now RTGS Dollar according to the Statutory Instrument. It therefore means that the value could have depreciated. I implore the Minister of Finance not to get money from elsewhere but to use what he has in order to get what he wants and here is the proposal that I make. It was US$32 million then and I am quite sure it is way above US$40 million as we speak. That is as it relates to infrastructure development.
There are six issues that I also propose to the Minister that can move this economy forward as it is related to infrastructure development. As long as we have robust, resilient, effective, efficient and smart infrastructure in terms of transport infrastructure, we can certainly get ourselves out of this doldrums of economic quagmire.
There are six issues which if addressed, can make sure that the aviation industry can move this economy forward. Aware Mr. Speaker Sir, that we are part, sorry Madam Speaker Ma’am – my apologies, I recognise you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Aware that in the tourism sector we are part of the grand team – the KAZA team, Transfrontier Park, we are also part of the Gonarezhou Transfrontier Park and one of the Seven Wonders of the World – the majestic Victoria Falls; we can use that as a pedestal and as a platform for economic enhancement.
Already Madam Speaker Ma’am, the Minister of Finance has employed $150 million Chinese EXIM Bank financed expansion, rehabilitation and maintenance of the Victoria Falls airport from 500 arrivals – he has taken it up to a 1.5 million arrivals. He can utilise that in order to enhance the tourism economy and industrial economy of this country. Aviation needs not make any profit as opposed to some school of thought that says if Air Zimbabwe does not make a profit, it means it is not working. Simple, it is working, in the whole of Africa; it is just the Ethiopian Airlines that has ever made a profit because it is hinging on the manufacturers of the Boeing aircraft and the Ethiopian Airline has got a turnover of US$11.5 billion much more than GDP – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Order
Hon. Members, may the Hon. Member be heard in silence.
HON. NDUNA: Much more than the GDP of this whole nation –
just an airline. So I am just proffering solutions to the proposals to the Minister of Finance, in that as long as we have the robust resilient aviation sector, we can move the economy forward. How much we then get out of it assuming Air Zimbabwe has got a turnover of US$11.5 billion alone – obviously, arising from what you are requesting to get from this economy - $14.1 billion against a target of $18.8 billion; certainly, we can move mountains.
It is therefore my clarion call and fervent view that we address the following in the aviation sector so that we can get the Minister to put his money where his mouth is. Currently, we have got about three crews of pilots that can fly the Embraer ERJ 145. Before we lose those pilots, it is my thinking and my clarion call to you Hon. Minister of Finance, to address the skills flight at Air Zimbabwe. It is no longer called Air Zimbabwe. It is called Zimbabwe because as long as we loose those captains, we have lost third generation of our aviation captains. Let us protect them by making sure we ward off the issue of skills flight.
The deterioration of the aviation infrastructure cannot be over emphasised. We have got one of the biggest and largest workshops of the Boeing aircraft in Zimbabwe. We need to make sure that it does not further deteriorate. I am alive to the situation where the Department of
Civil Aviation – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order! .....
HON. NDUNA: Formally, DCA...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Excuse me Hon. Nduna. Hon.
Members, may we keep our voices low. If we are not interested with what is happening here we have always said we go outside. Let the
Hon. Member be heard in silence.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. We can
make sure that we revitalise, and rejuvenate. The b check says it is the c check and the d check on other regional planes. Madam Speaker
Ma’am, we can embrace the triple P partnerships with Ethiopian Airlines. If you want to see far, you need to stand on the shoulders of giants. I pray to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to make sure that with the same power that he has taken to repudiate or repeal the Indigenisation Act; you implore the Ministry of Transport to be embedded with giants such as the Ethiopian Airlines in order that we get what we want from what we have. We utilise the hangers that we have. We utilise their turnover for the enhancement of our deteriorating aviation infrastructure. Aviation moves economies and it is the second largest economic developer, second only to ICT.
The third issue is addressing our training schools. We used to have the largest and the most robust resilient training institution at the Charles Prince Airport. The Civil Aviation Authority took charge of eight planes, fixed for the school development and for the flying training school. All of them have since disappeared without even flying once. I ask that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development looks closely at such issues so that we quickly enhance our aviation sector.
The forth issue that needs to be addressed in the aviation institution is the struggling of the general aviation industry. If you fly to TanzaniaDar es Salaam today, you will not go to Dodoma on a large boarded aircraft. You take small aircrafts like those stationed at Charles Prince Airport and you go to such places like Dodoma, Kilimanjaro or any other place but here in Zimbabwe, I have to go to South Africa in order to fly to Mozambique.
Madam Speaker, the ERJ 145 is an American aircraft. It takes about 50 passengers. So, it is an aircraft that we can buy. Apparently if you think aviation is too expensive, it is less than half a million to get such an aircraft but what it is going to generate is far much more than that. It builds economies. So, this is why I stand here to make a clarion call that you put your money where your mouth is Hon. Minister for the good order of the people of Zimbabwe and also of the people of Chegutu West Constituency.
The fifth issue that we need to deal with is the ailing national airline. It is a flagship carrier, there is no way we can address it without engaging in triple P partnerships. Triple Ps by the way, in their very nature, have no government capital outlay completely and whoever does not adhere to the ethos and values of triple Ps because they do not want to produce a concept paper that ultimately finds its way to the Attorney General and goes to Cabinet for ratification and comes to this House to just ascent to that triple P, they are not doing this country any good.
So, it is my clarion call and hope that ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Order,
Hon. Sikhala and Hon. P. D. Sibanda, can you please go back to your
seats.
HON. NDUNA: It is my clarion call and hope that we quickly and expeditiously open doors and make sure that all those triple Ps that are in a hanging balance are expeditiously conducted so that we unlock value
in this economy. I have not asked for money from you Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I have just asked for you to get more money from what you have already.
The last issue that I want you to understand….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are left with five minutes
Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: It is the poorly manned airspace. I was one day in Airbus 380 and there was a clear screen that showed the route where we were going. When we left South Africa enroute to Malawi on the South African Airlines, we did not get into the Zimbabwean airspace, we circumvented it and we went into the Mozambican airspace and for the sole reason that they want there to be radars in any airspace. It is my hope that the Minister of Transport came to this House once and said the expansion of R. G. M Airport is going to come through with a package that includes the radars. Airlines like Air France and British Airways shun our airspace on over flights. Zimbabwe is the shortest route from any northern part to South Africa. The economy of South Africa has grown because of Zimbabwean air space but we cannot get monies of the over flights because we have not adhered to the ethos and values of monitoring our airspace using radar and it does not cost much. It costs less than $20 million on the highest scale and less than $5 million on the lowest scale for us to monitor our airspace.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I ask that I go into the issue of the mining sector. The Minister already is getting a lot from the small scale miners. The royalties that he has increased from one percent to two percent should be reviewed. You cited arbitray, I ask Hon. Minister you review those royalties and get them back to one percent. The year we called for chikorokoza chapera and the Minister of Home Affairs went about crisscrossing the width and the breadth of this nation, arresting artisanal miners; that is the day we fell from 18 tonnes deliveries to 1 tonne. We are about to go that route again if you increase the royalties.
I ask therefore, that instead of increasing the royalties to two percent, you monitor what happens on the millers. The artisanal miner has no problem, he will take his ore to the mill, he will monitor the mill because what he wants is to get what he can from what he presents to the mill. Do not hate the man, hate the game. Take your money from the mill and give the artisanal miner his money. When those artisanal miners are 40 meters underground, they cannot perform any delinquent behaviour, they do not rape, getting involved in child abuse or buttering wives.
Madam Speaker, I ask that he in fact brings the Mines and Minerals Act to this House expeditiously so that we repeal it and we can address it so that we stop having illicit outflows and revenue leakages. We are aware of 2017UB on Illicit Outflows Report, we lost about 80 billion as a continent of our minerals and we are about to lose more if we go on this trajectory. I think we need to make sure that we have a coordinated, collaborated and networked approach to deal with egovernance in revenue generation in the mining sector as opposed to dealing with legacy oriented, pregnant with inconsistencies, moribund, rudimental, antiquated and very old manner of dealing with revenue modern day generation issues.
Let us make sure we put in computerisation in the generation of our finances in the mining sector. Otherwise, I have no other words except to thank you and make sure that I support you if you take on board these proposals. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. NDIWENI: I rise to add my voice to the debate on the mid-term budget. My talking point is with reference to Section 76 of the Constitution which gives right of health to every citizen. The Budget allocation to the Ministry of Health and Child Care, for lack of a better word, is unsatisfactory. Looking at the figures in the Blue Book, we realise that there has been a 67% adjustment on the allocation to the Ministry of Health and Child Care. If we compare with other ministries, we realise that there is no uniformity. Commenting as a lay person in economics and considering that officials from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development had originally done due diligence to the 2019 budget which we approved in 2018, who have then realised that there have been changes in fundamentals for the second half year of
- Definitely these changes affect all ministries and not some to the exclusion of other ministries. Therefore, with my layman thinking, this budget would just need to be multiplied by a factor which covers all ministries. I feel that if due diligence was done on this budget and there are fundamental changes to the budget that affects all ministries, then if we realise there is need to up it, let us use a factor for all ministries to avoid favouring other ministries at the detriment of other ministries.
Health care is divided into largely two major blocks, which are medicine (procedures) and drug supply.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, what is your point of order Hon. Member?
HON. CHIKWINYA: Hon. Speaker, I intend to leave this House but I am not sure which route to take because I had taken that route thinking that I am correct, can you please advise.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You will only be able to do
that when the speaker has finished speaking.
HON. NDIWENI: I am alluding to the fact that healthcare is divided into procedures and drugs. Maybe on that note, in future we would like to appeal to the Executive to have a structure in the Executive where medicine is represented by a professional called a doctor and drugs represented by a professional called a pharmacist. By the way, let me put a disclaimer Madam Speaker, I am not soliciting for a job in the
Executive. I am just speaking of the ideal. With all due respect Madam Speaker, my colleagues in the medical profession are aware that medicines is not pharmacy and vice-versa. For as long as this arrangement that I talked of, of the two major blocks not being represented in the Executive, we will continuously have challenges in drug supply which will boils down to challenges in the health care of the nation. Our budget is silent on drug supply. Looking at the expenditure estimates, this item could be hidden somewhere either in programmes or in goods and supplies but I pray for a day when NATPHARM will have a standalone budget for drug supply for the nation. We cannot continue to leave our drug supply to donors. We are almost mortgaging the health of the nation to donors. I would like to appeal to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that where health is concerned, allocation is not sufficient but actual disbursement. I will give an example of Ngomahuru Hospital that we recently visited. They applied for a budget of $1.5 million and they were allocated $400,000.00 but what has been disbursed to date is $110,000.00 of which money they have not had access to. Your budget on health has no provision (I stand to be corrected because I perused and I could not pick it) for our contribution to the Global Fund which supplies the bulk of our ARVs. Can we afford to lose US$400 million support because of failure to contribute US$6 million that we are supposed to contribute? I plead with you Hon. Minister to please have a heart and exercise a deliberate bias towards the provision of funds to all health departments in the healthcare system.
A human body needs to be healthy and before we even think of other ministries, money, energy or transport, the human body needs to be healthy. So we should try and prioritise health.
On a positive note, it has not all been gloom due to His
Excellence’s intervention and sustained effort. On a recent tour of major hospitals country-wide we can report that there is a marked improvement of drug supply with availability ranging from 54% to 75%.
We commend His Excellency the President for his intervention Madam
Speaker Ma’am.
Hon. Alice Ndhlovu having moved to another seat
THE TEMPORATY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Ndlovu, can you
move back to your seat. Thank you.
HON. NDIWENI: The only appeal that we can report back to you
Madam Speaker Ma’am from our professionals on the ground, is that this should not be a one off effort. The Ministry should be able to take over the button from where the President will leave and run off with the button so that we make the present scenario sustained. Let us prioritise Hon. Finance and Economic Development Minister, Health, health, health as our President would always say. I pray that my plea receives a favourable response from the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development who happens by the way, to be my schoolmate from sometime back. I thank you Hon. Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. MASANGO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am. I thank
you for letting me add my voice to the Supplementary Budget. Firstly, I would like to thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for recognising the shortfalls on war veterans’ welfare. Looking at Vote 4, Hon. Members have really done a great job on advocating for the welfare of our freedom fighters and truly speaking, there is no other way to say thank you for the sacrifices that they made. They surely deserve more.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, have you noticed that most of the times, when you converse with a war veteran, you feel that they have this seething anger. These people went through thick and thin during the liberation struggle and vakaona zvisakaonwa. They lived like animals while in the bush. They suffered what is termed psychological trauma.
Taking this into consideration Madam Speaker Ma’am, I feel that we have overlooked one important thing which should have taken precedence soon after demobilisation – counselling. It is not late to make provisions in the budget for all surviving war veterans to go through psychological counseling.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. The Hon. Member has since done her maiden speech and in terms of the rules, she does not have to read when she is debating. She is currently literally reading word by word.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon. Masango,
may you kindly refer to your notes and not be reading.
HON. MASANGO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. It is not
late to make provisions in the budget for all surviving war veterans to go through psychological counseling because they really need it. On their medical supplies and services, the proposed amount has to be increased to take into consideration counseling services. We took for granted kuti vadzoka kumusha and we were happy for them not taking into cognisance that they were still suffering but it is better late than never.
Now looking at Vote 6 on Animal production and Health - We are looking forward to having CSC revamped and working. When we talk of CSC, we know that we are talking of good healthy cattle. I feel that the supplementary budget for the control of animal diseases is commendable because the country experienced more cattle deaths countrywide this past year due to tick-bone diseases known as January disease. This disease could not be controlled due to unavailability of dipping chemicals. Most farmers cannot afford to buy these despite the fact that Hon. Members have been trying to encourage them to sell at least one mombe so as to buy dipping chemicals to save the remaining herds. In most areas, this was not a welcome idea because farmers were used to having a day for communal cattle dipping without them buying
the dip.
On Vote 11 – Programme 3, sub-programme 2 – in developed countries, the cheapest mode of transport is by rail. Right now, every constituency is crying out for more ZUPCO buses which are now very affordable. If we reintroduce the trains, for example from Norton to Harare; Chitungwiza to Harare and so on, we will reduce congestion and the transport blues being experienced at the present moment will be a thing of the past. By so doing Madam Speaker Ma’am, we will end up channeling the available buses to the rural areas.
On Vote 14 – Programme 2, sub-programme 2 – I applaud the Finance Minister on the supplementary budget on communicable diseases. I am looking specifically at availing ARVs to the people as per need. Those who were donating ARVs will soon stop, so we will have to get used to standing on our own. So, I am of the idea that this Vote is specifically for getting ARVs.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I am now going on to Vote 29. I feel the amount to be voted for has to be increased because when we talk of JSC, automatically we see a magistrate and when we talk of NPA, we see a prosecutor. A magistrate and a prosecutor are both lawyers. So on the budget Madam Speaker Ma’am, we have to look at their salaries. Those in JSC are being given accommodation where there are Government flats but those in NPA are not. We cannot be seen to capacitate JSC and leave out NPA because they both have a very big role and play an integral part in the fight against corruption. We must not be a parent who favours one child. If you go around the NPA offices right now
Madam Speaker Ma’am, you will be heartbroken – their offices are not furnished. The prosecutors cannot even access Wifi because they would say it is for magistrates. We are encouraging them to work as rivals but knowing that they are working to reach one goal. For effective prosecution, Madam Speaker Ma’am, their whole budget has to be increased.
Lastly, I commend the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development on Vote 30. Our President His Excellency E. D. Mnangagwa in his SONA address, expressed his displeasure on corruption. There is no day that goes by without him saying that we have to uproot this cancer. So financially, empowering the Zimbabwe
Anti-corruption Commission gives credence to His Excellency’s wish of a non corrupt nation. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on the
Supplementary Budget that has been brought to us. Firstly, Madam Speaker, I want to highlight that our nation is experiencing economic hardships and things are difficult for those in both rural and urban areas because of the price increases.
Let me go to page 96 Madam Speaker. It is talking about the increase in toll gate fees. For the small car that I drive, the fees went up from 2 to 10 dollars. I think this is too exorbitant for individuals because the person who has to pay 10 dollars is the same person who does not have a salary increment. It is the same person who is hard hit by economic hardships. So, it is my plea that we reduce the toll gate fees because people cannot afford it. We all know that life is difficult. In my opinion I think 5 dollars would be more ideal. It would be better to raise it from 2 dollars to 5 dollars, that is my opinion.
I also want to talk about the budget which is not clear in terms of health. I think it is a good idea if more money would be allocated towards the health sector. There is a singer who sang a song ‘mukuru ndiani anemari neanehutano’. I was at Harare Hospital last week and I realised that in the children’s ward, when a child is admitted the mother of the child has nowhere to sleep. Once we increase money in the health sector the mothers will have a place to sleep whilst looking after their children, including the provision of blankets. Furthermore Madam Speaker, the mother of the admitted child has no share in terms of provision of food. If a person comes from Mutoko and is admitted at Harare Hospital, where will the mother get food to eat? So, when we increase allocation of the budget it will take care of this.
Madam Speaker, I want to talk about the salaries people are getting especially civil servants. I did a budget for an average civil servant. Taking into account the budget for the civil servant who at the time is earning around 600 to 700 dollars; I included rent, electricity, water, fees and food that I consider as basics and the money for that budget was 1500. This is just basic living without any luxuries. So what I am saying is that there should be an increase in salaries for civil servants to ensure that our children are taught in schools and that nurses perform their duties well in hospital. Where I come from in Mutare, there are people who work close to urban centres. The teachers wait for buses that they can afford which means if a bus passes through around 12 noon the teacher will abandon the kids at 12 because they cannot afford a commuter omnibus to go back home. We need to increase the salaries to ensure that our children get the requisite education.
Madam Speaker, I want to refer the House to page 30, it is talking about vulnerable households that need food aid. I realise that the Minister is trying to increase the allocation in order to provide social services to the vulnerable. My concern is that we want our people to be availed food to sustain them because other areas are poverty stricken and are experiencing hunger. My challenge is that when we distribute this food, it is not being distributed in a fair manner. Food is being politicised – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – HON. NDUNA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): What
is your point of order?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of order is
this is the only place that we call home for more than 8 hours. It is a pedestal or platform to enhance both our visibility and the electoral visibility; we come here to represent them. It is not time to wax lyrical and be further from the truth on issues to do with very key pertinent issues Madam Speaker. I ask that the Hon. Member debating gets her facts right instead of prevaricating, even if she is not under oath. She should still come here and debate with dignity without prevaricating. I ask that she withdraws the mantra or the issue or the thought even the slightest thought that this food and grain is distributed along partisan lines. The people of Chegutu West Constituency certainly will not take kindly to such an assertion knowing fully that there is no political divide and they will get food hand-outs when the time comes from across political divide. I ask that she withdraws.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna, Hon
Karenyi please proceed.
*HON. KARENYI: Thank you very much. I am not saying this as a way of getting sympathy from this House. I am taking a look at the documents before Parliament. The Human Rights Commission presented a report and all of us realised that this food is distributed along partisan lines. For that reason, I want this august House to make sure that if the Minister is going to avail this money, food is going to be distributed fairly.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: To be honest, the Minister should give us money when we request for it as Members of Parliament. My point of order is that the Ministry of Finance does not distribute food; it is the Minister of Social Welfare that distributes food. She cannot talk about food distribution to the Minister of Finance and it is not for her to supervise whether the food is availed or not availed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Chinotimba.
*HON. KARENYI: Madam Speaker, let me continue by referring
you to page 33. I reiterate that the Minister has been able to give us help so that we can be able to import grain. That on its own is a good programme but as a Member of Parliament who carries out her representative function in this august House, I would like to remind Hon. Chinotimba that when the food comes to Buhera South, it should be distributed on a non partisan basis since it belongs to all Zimbabwean citizens.
On page 57, it shows that the Minister wants to put aside some funds to assist the victims of Cyclone Idai, among the places listed is my birth place Chimanimani. This is a noble idea which intends to ensure that bridges and other infrastructure are restored to their original stage. Once the Minister has disbursed the money, he must follow up and monitor that the aid is reaching its intended target group. According to my knowledge, I know that we have received a lot of money and other various goods but the big question is, has it been properly accounted for.
This ensures that no donations are diverted along the way to the intended target group. The donor community is brought in by the current government but it is not the donors’ intention to let its donations be stolen. The donor community requires transparency and accountability in the distribution of its donations.
The increase in driver’s licence fees, although it is a noble cause, it could further compound the already cancerous corruption. Secondly, the generality of the prospective drivers cannot raise the new fees as they fall within the vulnerable group. A 100% rise of the fees that is from 20 dollars to 40 dollars would have been more reasonable. Once these fees are affordable, a lot of people would be encouraged to drive legally and this will reduce the high road carnage we are currently experiencing.
The Minister also talks of a surplus, where is this money going to and what is is it being used for. On page 62, number 93, he talks of support for governance reforms, the Minister is endeavoring to increase the allocation to the independent commissions, so that there will be able to discharge their duties properly. I urge the ZACC to have teeth and should not look at the political factional battles. We know that we have 15 billion dollars that we cannot account for. To date, no one has been arrested for that theft which has led to the Minister requesting for a supplementary budget when we have abundant resources that are not being fully utilised and accounted for.
The Judiciary Service Commission is going to be allocated additional funding which they should put to good use and dispense justice to all Zimbabweans fairly. I applaud the Minister for putting this funding for independent commissions to ensure that they discharge their duties properly. This commission must implemented its duties independently. The issue of selective application of law must stop and if we fund them fully they will do their work well. The Government must not interfere with these commissions so the they do their work well. We know of people who are being arrested without committing a crime so if they run independently they will run efficiently. The Gender Commission, once issued with adequate resources, will be able to discharge its duties. If you go to the parastatals, if it were to be led by a woman, you would find that it would have less thefts. You will observe that Air Zimbabwe’s fortunes will be turned because there will be a woman at the helm of the parastatal. Once the Gender Commission is funded, it will be able to conduct outreach programmes to enlighten the women folk about their human rights and make women aware that they should be able to stand and carry out their development role. All the parastatals have all gone down because of corruption. Look at ZUPCO and ZINARA; they have experienced challenges because of men. It is because of men that they have failed. If women are capacitated all parastatals will run efficiently.
We also have the Human Rights Commission. If this Commission is given more teeth, there will be development in the country. If these commissions are availed funds, there will be development.
In conclusion, if these things are done; development will take place. There is need for accountability and monitoring. If we are accountable and do away with corruption, Zimbabwe will develop. If we also cut down on the large delegation on foreign travel, Zimbabwe will develop. We need political and economic reforms in this country. W also need investor confidence so that people will come and invest in Zimbabwe. The issue of legitimacy is also a challenge in Zimbabwe so we need dialogue an economic reform for our country to move on.
There is also another issue which is not accepted everywhere – Zimbabwe is not progressing well because there is no consensus in term of governance. For this country to attract foreign direct investment, there is need for rule of law and good governance so that we have investors. We need to consider human rights values that will make Zimbabwe develop.
Economic reforms are also needed – whether we like it or not; without economic reforms, Zimbabwe will not move.
I want to end by saying the issue of legitimacy can only be solved by dialogue. Dialogue is the only way that Zimbabwe can develop and progress. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. P. ZHOU: Thank you for affording me the opportunity to debate. Some of us do not have this book. They got finished before we got them. My request is that as I debate, may you avail the book to us? I think we need about 25 copies.
I want to add my voice an opinion on the Bill. Firstly, I would like to thank the Minister that since he brought in the Bill, I have heard other members talking about war veterans, civil servants and pensioners. I would also want to contribute on the same issues. Life has become difficult and there is need for money. We cannot add nine or ten percent that is at the interbank rate but it should be increased to ensure that these people are able to buy the basics – which we call the bread basket of the month especially the pensioners and the war veterans because that is the most critical age. They experience a lot of health challenges such as diabetes and blood pressure. When they go to the pharmacies or the doctors’ surgeries, their health bills amount to about $300. Our request is that the budget for this should be increased.
On the budget allocated to the Ministry of Women Affairs – there has been an increase but that money towards small to medium enterprise, women empowerment, even money that was allocated to the bank should be increased because a woman in Zimbabwe as has been proved, is good at paying back a loan. That is why we say equip, educate or develop a woman and you have developed a whole nation.
We request that the money be increased.
We also wish the Minister to increase the allocation towards smart energy. Electricity is a challenge and that is a challenge to women mostly. Gas and solar will assist the women in cooking and lighting. I think the allocation of funds towards those ministries should be increased in order to alleviate the burden on women.
On the issue of sanitary pads, it is a difficult budget for a family especially where there are four girl children to be able to experience hygiene when these are not affordable. The menstrual process should be considered seriously and we should consider that for men to be there, it is because of menses. So we should not be embarrassed to be women because that is why you are here as male Members of Parliament. The
Minister should increase allocation towards sanitary pads to ensure that they are easily accessible and affordable. Hon. Members advocated for the removal of duty on sanitary wear.
I also looked at the Budget in terms of the Ministry of Local Government. There was an increase of $2.3 million. There was an original estimation of $2.3 million and this was increased to $77 million; an addition of about $75 million. I am happy with this development because there was Cyclone Idai. Now you are prepared for disasters that may come anytime.
The Budget for the Ministry of Health has also increased, particularly the one for St Luke’s Hospital. It was $2 million but you quickly reacted. We thank you for that Minister. The budget for Lupane District Hospital has also been increased from $10 million to $26 million. I went to Lupane and it was a painful site. If you continue adding such allocations, the hospital will be in good working order and will provide medical services.
On the Vote for Ministry of Education, I am happy with the allocation that you have given to curriculum development but that money is inadequate because it has been raised from $4.6 million to $6 million. I say so because curriculum development is important in order to improve the syllabuses that our children are using. They need new books that are being written to know what is happening in the country, for example, how sanctions came into being. They also need to know how the new dispensation came into effect. Current affairs should also be in the curriculum that is needed – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker Ma’am, protect me please. I also want to thank the Minister for adding more money to the Anti Corruption Commission. Our request is that those convicted on corruption charges should not be treated on partisan lines, it should look at corruption on both sides. I thank you Hon. Speaker Ma’am.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): You
indicated that there are some Hon. Members who did not manage to get copies of the Budget Statement, I request that you go to the Journals
Office and get the books. I thank you.
HON. SACCO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like
to make my contribution towards the debate. I am worried about the -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Can the
Hon. Member be heard in silence.
HON. SACCO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Vejecha
ndivo varikungondiviringa zvavo – [Laughter.] - Madam Speaker Ma’am, my concern is on the issue of the budget given to industrialisation. The original amount allocated was US$4.5 million at that point, an additional amount has been allocated or proposed for RTGS$18 million. If you combine the two, we are getting a total of $22 million, which has now been rebased in Zimbabwean dollars. However, that $22 million for industrialisation is equivalent to US$2.2 million, which is now less than the amount initially allocated for industrialisation. This is not enough, we are not prioritising industrialisation.
Our industries are in a poor state, we have moved across the country looking at the state of our industries. Hon. Minister, through
Madam Speaker Ma’am, this is not an adequate allocation for the industrialisation of our country. It means that our industry is not being treated as a priority. We cannot continue being a super market economy where cheap goods are dumped from outside into this country – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We are not supporting our own industries.
As a point in question, one Hon. Member here spoke about removing duty on fertilizer for example. We toured Sable Chemicals; what they just need is an allocation of foreign currency – by the way, this is also partially owned by the Government. What they require is foreign currency allocation to import ammonia gas to make fertilizer here in this country. However, we are not allocating foreign currency to Sable Chemicals, rather we are giving middle men money to import fertilizer which is actually more expensive – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We need to protect this country…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Sacco. Just to let
you know, the current debate is on the Budget Statement. So, Hon. Members will be given an opportunity to be able to debate specific votes during the Committee of Supply. For now, let us be specific on the Budget Statement. Thank you.
HON. SACCO: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am, may be let
me rephrase it. I believe the amount being allocated for industrialisation is not enough. I am referring to specifics like Sable Chemicals, Dorowa Minerals which can produce phosphates for this country and is not being funded while we are importing. My point is, for import substitution, we need to concentrate on allocating monies to industry so that we can produce locally and protect our jobs and in some cases, produce even cheaper than what we are importing – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So I believe that on industrialisation, our allocation is not adequate.
I would like to move on to the issues of Cyclone Idai. I would like to start by thanking His Excellency the President and the Government of
Zimbabwe on the interventions so far for the cyclone affected areas. My constituency was affected a lot by this cyclone – [AN HON. MEMBER: Which constituency is yours?] – I come from Chimanimani East
Constituency. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I feel that the budget that has been allocated for Cyclone Idai intervention is not enough. I have been going through the figures, for example under the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure Development, road construction for Cyclone Idai has been allocated an equivalent of only US$24 million. However, if you pass through the roads that are being talked about like Birchenough,
Jopa, Bvumba, Cashel, Chimanimani Eastern border, Emergency Road
Interventions, Honde Valley, Kopa Mutsvangwa, Kopa-Vimba, Kurwaisimba, Muchadziya, Machongwe, Kopa-Jopa and so on, there are many roads to be repaired. However, the figure here is only US$24 million. This is not adequate.
We feel that more funds should be allocated towards Cyclone Idai especially looking at contributions and well-wishers who have come on board towards Cyclone Idai. I believe more can be done for that. We still have people who are living in tents in Chimanimani, Chipinge and other places. Those people, we are now going into the rainy season.
Whilst I realise that money has been allocated under Local Government, I still believe it is not enough. We have people living in tents, who are exposed to the elements and going into the rainy season, we really need to move with speed Madam Speaker.
One other issue I wanted to raise was that we complain that we do not have foreign currency in our country and yet we allow our resources to be smuggled out of this country without any intervention. Gold is mined across the country even in Chimanimani. When we approach Fidelity Printers to come and create mobile buying units, they tell us that they are not capacitated. Can the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development allocate funds to Fidelity Printers to create buying points across the country to absorb and pick up all that gold that is being mined across the country to benefit this nation. As we speak, it is being smuggled out to our borders and nothing is happening – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Still on issues of Cyclone Idai, education has only been allocated
ZW1.9 million to reconstruct schools in Cyclone Idai affected areas. This will not get us anywhere if we look at what we really need in the cyclone affected areas. Can attention be given to that as well.
One other point is Chimanimani had been allocated a district hospital in the last budget and if that hospital had been constructed we would have saved many lives, but as we speak, I do not see it mentioned anywhere. Can that also be included so that we improve our facilities for our people to have the relevant health facilities as required.
I would like to move on to ICT, Vote 23. On ICT, I notice there is a glaring absence…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sacco, like what I said, we are going to discuss about Votes on Committee of Supply.
HON. SACCO: Noted Madam Speaker Ma’am. We have a
challenge in areas that are outlying on our borders, areas that are in remote areas, areas that are not covered or are not economically viable for our network providers to supply cellphone coverage. Certain areas may not be viable for Econet, Net One and Telecel to put up boosters, but POTRAZ should have funding where they come in and put up boosters so that we can have infrastructure sharing where the networks can share. So, my concern is, I do not see any allocation towards
POTRAZ being capacitated for certain areas like Chikukwa in Chimanimani and in other areas, there is no network and it is not viable for network providers to come in. Can allocations be made towards POTRAZ to cover areas like these across the country?
We were in Rwanda recently, Madam Speaker, where we noticed that they are now on 4G and their economy is ticking because they can manage to have services on line. Things are moving because the whole area of the country is covered by network and 4G. We need to move with the times as well and identify areas which are still not covered by network and capacitate that. So my plea is that more money should be given to ICT to cover those areas.
My last point, Madam Speaker, is that when our initial budget was done, it was done in United States dollars. We have moved now from the United States dollar to the RTGs regime. What is worrying me is that we are noticing that prices have been increased in line with the interbank rate, but we have not seen a similar increment on civil servants wages on salaries, even MPs here, we have not seen an adjustment. If we are working with the interbank rate; if a civil servant was being paid US$500, why can we not then convert that as US$500 multiplied by 10 to become $5 000 because the cost of services has gone up. So, I am concerned and I would like the Hon. Minister to take into consideration the welfare of our civil servants and even employees in the private sector. Prices have gone up but wages and salaries have not. So, can we please look into that and make the necessary adjustments. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker, for giving me
the opportunity to add my voice to this budget that has been provided. I would want to start with Vote number 8 – Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Development. There is need however, Madam
Speaker, to make sure that water is available in every corner of the country. We are experiencing a great drought in Zimbabwe and it is important that there is provision of water, particularly in the rural areas where there are no dams and the boreholes are broken down. So, there is need to ensure that boreholes are up and running and that everyone has water available.
In my constituency for example, Madam Speaker, I have a ward, a former rural resettlement where I have in excess of 25 000 people, that is Ward 14, Hurungwe East Constituency where there are no dams because no dams were ever constructed in that area. Water is a problem to the extent that you find that there is one borehole that is providing water to more than 4 500 people, 3 000 cattle, sheep and goats and to more than four schools. They depend just on one borehole. Therefore, the budget should support provision of water in the rural areas.
I would also want the Supplementary Budget to support the rehabilitation of small to medium dams that were destroyed by the former white settlers when they were leaving the farms. They set up dynamite and destroyed the dam walls such that there is no water to get to the people. So, I would also want the budget to look at that – rehabilitation of small to medium dams.
I would also want the budget to support the building of water weirs. Small catchments where water can be harvested or water can be harnessed such that people and their animals have water. People can be able to do small gardening projects for them to be able to feed themselves. I would also want to make sure that there is provision in the budget for vaccines that can be used to treat diseases in animals, chicken, sheep and goats such that people have a livelihood. They derive their livelihood from the existence of cattle, sheep and goats but these are dying because there are no vaccines to treat them. So, the budget should focus on the provision of such funds so that vaccines are made available.
I go specifically to primary school education, Vote 15, page 58 – Teaching and Learning. I would like to applaud the Minister for making provision in both the infant education, junior education and secondary education so that provision of teachers and accommodation is made possible for teachers that teach in the rural areas because it is very difficult for a teacher who has got a degree to go and stay in a grass thatched dagga and pole house or round hut. I appreciate the Minister’s concerns to the extent that he made provision for the teaching and learning in the rural areas as well.
I go to Defence, Vote number 4 – Defence and War Veterans on page 14 and 17 of the Blue Book. To add my voice to the fact that war veterans are living in abject poverty, there are people who were in the war for four, five or six years and when they left the assembly points, they only had clothes that they were wearing and they went back to their rural homes where they had no support from Government. I see from the provision that there is very little provision for the welfare of the people who fought to liberate this country. I would urge the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to have a relook at this and ensure that the war veterans are well provided for. There are people who were fortunate enough to get land but they were just put in the middle of nowhere, with no support, nothing, no tillage support, no fertilizer support and no chemicals. Some of them have to walk long distances to get to the next bus stop because they were put in the middle of nowhere. There are no roads, no infrastructure, no clinics and no hospitals around the places they stay. I would like the Minister of Finance to ensure that he has a relook at better provisions for the war veterans.
I would also like to make a comment on Vote 11, Transport and Infrastructure which is on pages 43 and 44. I applaud the Minister for making provisions for roads in rural areas but I am saddened by the fact that in my constituency, there is no road that has been provided for.
This makes me feel very sad because when people were resettled in year 2000, that was the last time that the road was ever graded. It is a 120km road – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, I seek for your protection. I need to be protected.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): You
are protected Honourable. Order Hon. Members. May the Hon.
Member be heard in silence?
HON. MASENDA: I would also want to urge the Minister to have a look. It is a stretch of 120km and most of the small bridges and culverts have collapsed because all the people around there grow cotton, tobacco and maize. The roads are now eroded by the heavy 30 tonne trucks that deliver the inputs as well as coming to collect the output from the people. I would urge the Minister to have a look at providing that road with gravel. We are not looking at having tar mark but gravel, well structured, with culverts and with small bridges because sooner or later, there will be no access to collect the white gold – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, there is too much interference. I need your protection. I also have noted that on the provisions on transportation and infrastructure development, there is little provision for rail rehabilitation. Transportation is very costly these days, if you use buses or kombis. I would recommend that there be money provided for rehabilitating the existing railway lines so that we have our trains up and running to alleviate the problem of the high cost of transport.
I come to Vote 33, Zimbabwe Lands Commission...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. Let me guide you in
terms of that. If you look at our Order Paper, the debate we are having now is on the Budget Statement. On Committee of Supply, that is when we debate vote by vote. For now, we need to be generalising especially the revenue raising measures that have been stipulated in the Budget Statement and even some expenditure highlights. That is what we need to concentrate on now. We are going to get to a stage which we call Committee of Supply, where we are going to go vote by vote. Each Member will be commenting on it to find out if it is high or low. All you are discussing now, we will talk about it that time. For now, let us be specific on the overall Budget Statement. Thank you.
HON. MASENDA: Thank you for your guidance Madam
Speaker.
HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Masenda. What is
your point of order Honourable?
HON. MUSHORIWA: Madam Speaker, I think we have heard you trying to correct Members from this side in terms of what needs to be done in terms of debate. I suggest that can there be an induction course for this side so that they go through the process.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon. Masenda, may you proceed?
HON. MASENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am going to
my last point. I appreciate the increase in the provision for the Zimbabwe Land Commission. It is important that land distribution and redistribution be carried out in an effective manner. The Lands Commission cannot execute its duties effectively if they have not been provided with enough funds. It is also important that the Land Commission carries out its audit and it needs money. I also would like to applaud the Minister in providing funds which will provide land audit and transportation of the officers who execute the work. I wish to thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity you have given me.
+HON. N. NDHLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Mid-Year Fiscal Review and Supplementary Budget. Let me go to page 54, which speaks about the devolution of power. Madam Speaker, in 2013 we passed a new Constitution which clearly speaks on the devolution of power and establishment of provincial councils. Surprisingly, Madam Speaker, it is now seven years since the Constitution was passed and governance is still centralised instead of devolution Madam Speaker, when I look at provincial councils, the councils were allocated $310 million. What I do not know is how this money will be used and when because the money cannot be utilised since the Provincial Councils Bill has not been tabled in Parliament. There is no particular Act which defines the terms of reference of the councils. Madam Speaker, what I would like to know is that since this is the seventh year, what assurance is there that these monies will be used in the provincial councils. We know that every year end when budgeted money is not utilised within that particular year, then that money is forfeited. With that in mind, I would like to ask the
Minister to clarify to Parliament when the Bill is coming to Parliament.
Madam Speaker, there are a number of people who were promised positions in the councils just like legislators who are given particular terms. These council employees were given contracts. My concern is that their term might expire before the Bill is tabled in Parliament and before assuming office.
Let me go to page 37, item 115 where we talk of infrastructure projects. My question is when we talk of buildings, there are people who are disabled, are you considering them when putting up structures because I have a very good example which is the Parliament of Zimbabwe. At times there is no electricity and that also affects the elevators. People who are disabled are unable to attend committees because they cannot access the 5th floor where the committees will be sitting. These buildings cannot accommodate the disabled. Please consider them because they are people just like us. They also vote for us and we do not look at whether the vote came from a disabled person or not. Please consider them when putting up buildings.
Now looking at page 69 item 219 where there is talk of ease of doing business reforms. They say it is now going to be easy for people to get papers to carry out their business. This issue of saying to someone first go to Karigamombe, Munhumutapa or elsewhere, I understand now that everything will be done under one roof called the one-stop-shop. I think this is very good even for investors because they can access all their documents in one place. My worry however is that after getting his papers, he is going to face the environment outside and come face to face with the fact that there is no water, no electricity and there are no roads. He will then discover that there is nothing in the country for him to carry out his business properly. What are you going to do after that? I think I have a resolution that I would like to give as a Member of
Parliament. I think I have a right to assist the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Minister, you can come up with all these other reforms but you are not going anywhere if you do not come up with political reforms. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] – you know in life you can get sick and go to a doctor complaining of stomachache today, backache tomorrow and headache the next day. If your blood is not tested you are not helping yourself in any way. The blood that I am talking about is that you should look at our political reforms and also the issue of legitimacy.
In conclusion, I am now going to page 62.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon Ndlovu.
There is someone with a point of order can you sit down.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. We will not allow the Hon. Member to abuse this august House by trying to grand stand and talk about legitimacy. They lost the elections and they lost their court case so they cannot use this debate for the budget to talk about legitimacy. There is no legitimacy issue in this country. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndlovu, could you speak
to the budget issues.
+HON. NDLOVU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I said I will go to page 62, item 193 which talks about commissioners funding. I see they are listed here and there is ZEC and others. On ZEC, it should be allocated a big chunk of money.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndlovu, the issue of ZEC will be discussed at the Committee of Supply. That is where you will discuss the issue.
+HON. NDLOVU: I was saying since it is under commissioners..
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, it is not there.
+HON. NDLOVU: Yes it is there. I was saying that it should cater for all the parties, that is why it should be given a big chunk. Noone should complain. On this issue of commissioners, for transparency’s sake could you also include people from the civic society, the Christian society and those educated people from the universities. I thank you.
HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order. Thank you Madam Chair. In this august House, every time we speak about reforms, legitimacy and governance issues, we have noise from Members on the right side. Are we supposed to be afraid to talk about the challenges that we have, are we not supposed to talk about reforms, legitimacy issues or the governance crisis that we have? We cannot be suffering in silence. We have to talk about it if we are to move as a Parliament. If we are to debate we have to do so freely, stating what it is like. So, we should not be limited by these Hon. Members. We should be free to debate. We are all Hon. Members here. Everyone is free to debate. They talk about whatever they talk about and we should also be allowed to talk about what we want to talk about.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order. Let me respond to you Hon. Mamombe. In this House, we have got different reports. In terms of the election report, I am sure we got it in our pigeon holes and there is a time and a chance for everything. At this moment, we are debating the budget and we need to be specific about that. For us to be digressing and then we report about – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Members, order. We have the Zimbabwe Human Rights report that was tabled here in Parliament and we also have the Zimbabwe Elections Report for 2018 which was actually tabled. So, if it is anything which is at that juncture, we are allowed to debate but at the right time. So for now, let us concentrate on the debate which is before us. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Johanna Mamombe, I take note of that. Hon. Members, I think there is some certain decorum that we are supposed to observe as Hon. Members. We call each other as Hon. Members and we are not supposed to harass anyone if it is for sexuality – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
Order, order, Hon. Tsunga, I never recognised you. So, when it comes to those issues, I will recognise you and you say your point of order. There is a procedure in this House. Let us proceed.
You never raised a point of order Hon. Members. Let me tell you the procedure. When you feel that there is a word that should be withdrawn, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order. Hon. Samambwa, order. Hon. Members, I think it is quite important for us to be able to observe all the rules that we have. The procedure is, when you feel someone has to withdraw, it is not about you shouting – you will have to raise a point of order. I thank you.
HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
thank you and also add my voice on the current debate. Our economy – the Zimbabwean economy is basically mining and agriculture. These are the two major drivers of our economy. I want to thank the Minister for acknowledging in his report that now royalties are also deductible. That is going to increase foreign direct investment in Zimbabwe. We also want to look at how we can assist in gold production. Hon. Minister, the idea of increasing royalties on gold, let us work on the original 1%. What we need to do is to increase the capacity of our gold miners so that they produce more. When we have more gold which then earns our country foreign currency, we will not be worried about 1%. One percent of an elephant is worth something than 1% of a rat. So, the whole situation is, we want to continue producing gold as artisanal miners and they have produced more than these big formal companies.
Hon. Speaker, artisanal miners do not declare dividend that goes out of the country. When artisanal miners get their money, they spend it here. So, it is money that is within. Big mines at the end of the year declare dividends and if there is any increase in royalties, it must be on those big mines because they all take a substantial amount of the money out of the country. So, we need to support the artisanal miners and we also need to support diamond mining in an artisanal way.
Artisanal mines must move in and produce diamonds in Chiadzwa. It is happening in West Africa, it is happening everywhere where there are alluvial diamonds. There is no point in bringing people from all over the world to go and work on alluvial diamonds. Alluvial diamonds can be done by our people in those areas so that we can remove poverty. The biggest enemy of Zimbabwe is poverty and what is poverty according to the dictionary. It is your inability to utilise resources around you for your personal, national benefit. We have done it in Chiadzwa and we have never had a personal or national benefit from those diamonds. This idea of foreign investors aiwa, there are certain things that we can do on our own and we are blessed when we look at diamonds and gold panning. This is the skill we inherited from Munhumutapa and we must be proud of those skills. So, we need to improve on the generation of revenue.
The other issue that I would want to address on is agriculture. We can produce more as long as our people have enough resources. The prices of fertilisers have gone out of this world. Agribank must be capacitated, and the other bank which was opened by NSSA must be given to Agribank so that farmers can have a benefit. NSSA does not need to run banks because when we have farmers with capital, then they can produce for the country. Security for agriculture, we can use our cattle – Zimbabwe has five million cattle, and if you multiply by 2 000, it is $10 billion which can easily be invested in agriculture.
It is very nice to have a poor country and have rich people. They can easily contribute than having a very rich country with very poor people. The State will have too many responsibilities. I want to appreciate the issue of artificial insemination. Madam Speaker, the size of our cattle, I was flying one day in a helicopter and when you are up there, you think that they are goats yet they are cattle. They are now so small. So, there is a need for us to improve because what is the improvement of wealth if we cannot improve the wealth of our people. Our people have 10 cattle and we must improve on the quality so that those people can contribute and pay for school fees and everything.
The issue of climate change is one of the most dangerous things that we are facing. We must move and assist and explain to our farmers the dangers associated with climate change. Madam Speaker, speaker after speaker before me were talking about the critical shortage of electricity. We must now have a sub-sector policy on renewable energy.
What is the local authority’s policy on renewable energy? Private sector and parastatals, what are your policies on renewable energy? The national policy of Zimbabwe comes from the sub-sector policy which then determines our national policy. This whole idea of relying on Harare power station, Munyati and Bulawayo; we went there as a Committee, these power stations must never be used for generation of power.
There must be museums for power generation for our science students who are doing electrical engineering. They must be there, we must concentrate on critical issues. The idea of refurbishing, some of you were not here in the august House, Hwange 5 and 6, there was 40 million which came from Nam Power. We would have raised 80 million to have the new generation system. If you go today in Hwange 5 and 6, there is nothing and they want another US$40m for refurbishing. The whole idea of refurbishing is outdated. Let us have modern ways of dealing with shortage of electricity and more-so, the element of renewable energy. When we contribute let us give the Minister solutions not just criticisms. We must proffer solutions.
Hon. Speaker, the issue of the welfare of Hon. Members needs to be addressed. I know most of the Hon. Members not by face but by the suit they wear from Monday to Friday [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You know this Hon. Member wears this jacket, this red tie and checked shirt.
Madam Speaker, when my father was dying at Parirenyatwa Hospital at his death bed, he said mwana wamushawasha, mwana wadoregodzonga, you must never admire poverty. As a legislative institution of Zimbabwe, we must never, never admire poverty. Let us have a purpose to achieve certain things. Hon. Minister, do not be worried by certain people who say this and that. For Joseph to be a king, he was thrown into a pit by his brothers. For David to be a king, he fought Goliath. You have a process of changing whatever people throw at you to make it right for the benefit of the people of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
+HON. O. SIBANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
would like to comment on the budget that was presented by the Hon. Minister. I will start by saying Hon. Minister, thank you very much for the budget statement. However, there are few issues that I want us to look at. I represent a rural constituency, 65% of members of this august House come from the rural areas and our problems are unique to the rural areas.
Hon. Minister, I appreciate you allocated some money to DDF, however that money is not enough. DDF is responsible for sinking boreholes in rural areas; you will discover that boreholes need spares and repairs. Drills at the DDF are few in the whole nation; there are only 20 drills which service the whole country. There are newly resettled people who walk 20 km to access water from different dams. The other point is that from my constituency in lower Gweru, there were some wetlands but they have since dried, there are no dams, no water, nothing. Water is a challenge in Zimbabwe. My desire is that Hon. Minister, you are supposed to allocate a reasonable sum to the provision of water. We are approaching the rainy season and you will discover that if these dams are not serviced we might face a challenge. The Hon. Minister allocated 40 million to the DDF. If the DDF is not properly capacitated then all rural areas might face a challenge. Irrigation schemes support the provision of food in the country.
Madam Speaker, I am sure you noticed that the President His Excellency Cde. E. D. Mnangagwa is addressing the issue of food shortages. Looking at areas like Binga, there are some crops that are being produced under irrigation schemes. However, these people are farming under irrigation schemes. In my constituency, there are a lot of irrigation schemes that are not operational. In Lower Gweru, there is no irrigation scheme. My plea to you Hon. Minister, is that maybe you relook at the money that was allocated to the provision of water.
All DDF offices in different rural areas do not have proper office infrastructure. There are no proper bridges in different rural areas to accommodate school going children. My other point is that there are no more tillage tractors. Our cattle can no longer be used for tilling. I would like to implore the Minister that the DDF budget be relooked at and reviewed to around 500 million because 40 million can only be allocated to one particular province, for example the Midlands province.
Madam Speaker, DDF has around three graders which are warehoused at BARZEM; they only need three million to be released. I would like to implore you to look at these graders, the CAT graders that are housed at BARZEM. The whole tendering process was done but what is needed is only 3 million to release those graders so that they are taken to different constituencies.
The other point is that let us look at Cyclones or Elnino which is a result of climate change. Climate change does not have a reasonable provision from the budget. We also need to look at cloud seeding, there is nothing on cloud seeding in the budget, if we embark on cloud seeding, then we get water, for us who come from the rural areas we need water. We are different from urban dwellers that get their water from taps. I know that the Hon. Minister comes from Lupane, a rural area and I know that the problem that I am talking about is not unique to our constituency only but you are aware Hon. Minister.
Maize meal – after tilling our land using tractors, we can fill all
GMB silos without importing maize. The importation of maize and the
Presidential schemes to relief people are not necessarily programmes that we should embark on. However, we can work and provide our own maize.
Disabled people – in my constituency I have more than 2000 disabled people, I know that this is not unique to my constituency but other Hon. Members also have disabled people in their constituencies. Three million is not enough to cater for them. My point is that I do not think it is not fair to them because they equally deserve to receive money from the fiscus. I believe that this should be done in a fair and equitable manner. Providing for the disabled can unlock blessings even for the nation.
I would like to implore the Hon. Minister to look at sports. Sports in general unifies people; we were talking about female sports, looking at netball, cricket and the senior football team. These sporting activities were only allocated 30 million dollars and this money is supposed to cater for those in different areas even in urban areas. I believe that there should be balls even for Hon. Members of Parliament for different sporting activities.
Let me commend Nakamba, the money that the Hon. Minister of Finance needs is money that can be raised especially looking at the case of Nakamba. One Hon. Member of Parliament can be empowered with enough funds for sporting activities in his constituency so that our children shun criminal activities. Instead they can focus on these sporting activities. The reason why there is an increase in crime rate is because our young people do not have anything to do but if we empower them, give them enough balls, they will be productive.
Lastly, I would like to say to the Hon. Minister of Finance, we are your people, all these man and women in this august House, the challenges they face are challenges that you will also face. Even when coming up with budgets, a mother plans looking at the children in her family. I would like to implore the Minister of Finance to look at your children in this august House. You should also consider their cars, their welfare, their pay, we are your people, and we are your children. Look after us Hon. Minister. I thank you – [THE HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.]-
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to
thank the Minister of Finance especially the additional allocation that he made to the special needs in primary and secondary education Ministry. I observed the amount that he has allocated. It is my considered view that he has allocated very little with regards to the requirement of those less fortunate children especially those that are visually impaired that require braille alphabetic use. They also need special care toilets and parents are having serious challenges in coming up with toilets that are user friendly to this specific group of children.
I will move to the issue of the resources for the new curriculum. A lot of new things are now required as regards the new curriculum, parents are finding it difficult to give their children the necessary requirements. We would want the Minister to add more money to the schools so that they can become self sustaining on the issue of resources in terms of the new curriculum.
On page 52, he talked about the construction of schools.
Construction material has gone up which is now expensive, schools may not be completed either this year or next year. The pupil/teacher ratio is now at 60 which is too heavy. If other schools were to be constructed, it would help through de-congesting the schools.
Lastly, I would want to talk about the issue of the burden that teachers are now carrying. Teachers that commute are now unable to do so; they can no longer sustain the cost of living. They need a living wage so that they can become respectable and that they should not be worse than an artisanal miner. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. For starters, allow me, Hon. Speaker to say that in my view and this is my view; this is one of the most nonsensical budget statements that I have seen over a long time that I have started to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Hon.
Sibanda, may you please withdraw that statement?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Before I withdraw, the Hon. Minister of
Finance is an economist. He understands that when we are saying that something is nonsensical, it is not an insult. He understands very much – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – that is an economic term.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you kindly withdraw?
HON. NDUNA: We need breathlysers in this House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have not recognised you
Hon. Nduna.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I will withdraw Hon. Speaker but what I wanted to say –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I
withdraw Hon. Speaker but as I withdraw, I want to say that the Hon. Minister of Finance, being an economist that he is, he understands a working definition of that word in economics what it simply means is that …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you kindly withdraw.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have already withdrawn.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No more explanations to that.
May you kindly proceed?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I know he has decided not to listen to me because he knows that he has got graves and tombs in his statement. There is nothing that is going to bring development in here.
HON. NDUNA: We need breathlysers in this House.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Iwewe you were never voted for -
[Laughter.] -
HON. NDUNA: We need breathlysers in this House Madam
Speaker Ma’am. You need to make a ruling on people that come into this House drunk.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: When we are talking about a budget statement, it is a very critical and very important part of a nation’s calendar because it speaks to development needs of a society. When you find a budget statement which does not speak to the prevailing needs of any economy, I do not want to use that word again that I used earlier on for fear of fouling you but honestly speaking, I will show you the graves and tombs that are in this budget statement.
HON. KASHIRI: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. The Hon. Member is not supposed to school us about budget but he is supposed to debate –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: The first thing that I want to speak to about this budget is that when we passed the budget sometime last year, it was a budget of over $4 billion...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you withdraw again. You
said the Minister did not want to listen to you because he had gone outside.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I withdraw Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: He has come back. So you
are supposed to withdraw that.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: I have withdrawn Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Please
continue.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: There has been a lot of changes in our economic fundamentals between the last time that we passed the 2019 Budget and this time when the Supplementary Budget is being presented. When you look at all these figures that are being mentioned and thrown around by the Hon. Minister – what they are simply meant to do is to try and deal with the inflational pressures that have happened to the Budget that we passed last year. It is also meant to deal with the issues of the exchange rate after we have moved away from the fictitious and scandalous 1:1 rate that we used to have in the last year. Basically, there is nothing that this Budget is going to improve in terms of our economy. It is merely meant to deal with the scandals and skeletons of last year that the Hon. Minister and his financial authorities had put before us.
Let us go to paragraph 32 of the Budget Statement where the Hon.
Minister seems to be telling us and the nation that he is dealing with the domestic debt. I say so because in reality, he is not doing anything. He is actually increasing the debt burden of this country. If you look at paragraph 32, the second bullet where he says – the high impact measures that he has put in place include restructuring of overdraft facility, cash advances and Treasury Bills held by RBZ into long term marketable instruments.
This literally means that the Hon. Minister has said that I do not want to deal with this obligation. I am passing it on to future generations. But when he passes it on to future generations, he is not passing it costlessly. It is going to cost the nation because by restructuring, he is accepting that he is going to pay huge interests rates to whoever the country owes. It means that we are going to see the level of our debt burden increasing rather than being reduced. In my view, it would have made sense for the Hon. Minister who is always preaching about surplus to come here and say I have decided to extinguish all the debt that we have rather than for him to restructure the debt and increase the cost of repaying that debt to the nation.
I also want to take you to bullet number three of the same paragraph 32 – he talks about a stop to any Treasury Bills issuance for
ZAMCO. I think it is important for us to understand what ZAMCO is. ZAMCO is a repayment plan that was made by this Government to pay back the loans that were stolen by the people that are in high offices. If the Hon. Minister was honest, he was supposed to come here and show us the list. The people that benefited from this ZAMCO facilities are the people that are in offices including the Mangundyos of this world. They are involved in the ZAMCO. Their own loans that they took from CBZ and other banks are being paid by us the tax payers through the ZAMCO facility. For him to tell us that he is stopping issuing of Treasury Bills - for me it is not enough.
I am of the view that what he was supposed to do is to simply say – I have identified all the people that had none performing loans and that those people should pay back the loans to the institutions that they owe and not to simply stop whilst he is still holding the debt on behalf of the nation that the tax payers should continue to pay. That does not add value to our economy.
I want to take you to paragraph 81 on page 29...
HON. NDUNA: I am impressed that you can see as drunk as you
are.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna withdraw that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: That is getting too personal, you are getting too personal.
HON. NDUNA: I said I withdraw. You can do what you want though.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Before I go to paragraph 81, allow me to deal with paragraph 76 up to 79 to just show the wrong priorities that the Hon. Minister has. The Hon. Minister is talking about the welfare of civil servants and pensioners. What he has simply increased on that Budget – I want you to make a comparison of the increases or provisions that have been made. For the welfare of civil servants and pensioners,
he has put up only 30%. We are talking about 30% at a time when inflation has actually risen to beyond 500% between the time that this budget was put in place and now. So, in real terms Hon. Speaker, there is nothing that has been added to civil servants. Civil servants will continue to wallow in poverty because the Minister of Finance has not given them anything. The 30% that he has put up, if I am going to compare it with some pockets where the pockets of access and leakages by the Executive, you will understand that there is nothing that has been put in terms of the welfare of the people.
If I go to paragraph number 81 which talks of Government operations. These are Government operations that are not listed or enumerated, they have been given a whopping 175% increase from the supplementary budget but when you are talking about the welfare of the civil servants who are keeping the Government machinery moving, he has only given 30%. Then you ask yourself, what are those operations of Government that are getting this 175 % allocation through this supplementary budget, you will not know. The reason is that these are the pockets where those that are in offices have access to money and put them in their pockets. That is the reason why it is not stated what these operations are and that is why these operations are given so much huge amounts of money.
Hon. Speaker, I will take you to paragraph 114 which speaks about capital development projects. If you go to 114, you will realise that agriculture is given about $2, 9; let us say $3 billion. Given that $3 billion on the background of another $3 billion that disappeared into the same sector, what surprises people like me …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Paragraph 114 talks of $2,950
billion not $3 billion.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: $2,950 is just as good as $3 billion.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is not because $50 million is
a lot of money. So, just say $2,950 I am sure you are referring to a certain paragraph, so just be specific.
HON. P. D. SIBDANDA: Okay, Hon. Speaker $2, 950 billion
against a background of $3 billion that just disappeared in the same agricultural sector. That is not the only concern that I have about hiding this agriculture figure under capital development projects.
What worries me is that in terms of paragraph number 83 that specifically deals with agricultural issues, why do we have to hide this money under capital development projects instead of putting it directly where we have already put a budget for agriculture in terms of paragraph number 83? What is the Hon. Minister hiding by taking that amount of money and hiding it somewhere at the corner of capital development projects when paragraph number 83 deals with agriculture and food security? In my view Hon. Speaker, this is a sign that the $2,950 billion might not be meant for the intended purpose. It might also be going towards the other $3 billion that cannot be accounted for in this House.
Hon. Speaker, I will then want to take you to paragraph 174 and I will not say much about this one because someone has already talked about it. How do you allocate money to a vehicle whose law has not yet been put in place? Under what mechanism are we allocating finances to provincial councils and local authorities when we do not have the enabling Act that allows us to give money to those local authorities and provincial councils? Do you not see that actually creates a gap within which gap people can use to actually steal the money? There is no law Hon. Speaker in place and there is no reason why that law has not been brought to this House. I am sure this House is ready to deal with that Bill if it is brought here but we are seeing some allocations being made. Are we really certain that we will be able tomorrow without the enabling law, to follow up these monies that are being allocated under this Bill?
From there Hon. Speaker, I will take you to paragraph 187. It is all nice to see this so-called mass public transportation system. It is good for us to be seen receiving 47 buses per time in this country. It is good to see our people riding those buses at a ridiculous cost of $0,50c because $0,50c cannot buy anything anymore in this country. You walk in any supermarket and you cannot buy anything for $0,50c. What does this mean Hon. Speaker? Not that I am not happy to see people getting free rides but this free riding is not coming cheap. It is very expensive.
The Hon. Minister one day said they are paying almost $13 million per month towards subsidies of this ZUPCO transportation system. Let me say this Hon. Speaker - the problem with subsidies is that they have got negative implications. Subsidies by nature have negative implications. One of the implications is that they are not sustainable. In a year, it means the Hon. Minister is paying about $140 million towards the subsidy being paid to ZUPCO. There is no transparency in the manner in which those subsidies are being paid. Remember, it is not only the ZUPCO buses that are plying those routes. Private buses as well have been engaged in those routes and they are receiving those subsidies.
This House has never been informed on who exactly are supplying buses to ZUPCO or enjoying this $13 million subsidies per month that is being paid by Government. Subsidies by their nature promote inefficiency and the inefficiency that is going to happen is that a lot of people will actually be siphoning out that $13 million and a lot of people are going to get rich from these subsidies. They are not going to achieve what they are supposed to achieve.
From there, allow me Hon. Speaker to talk about paragraph 249…
HON. KASHIRI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. If I remember well, you reprimanded one Hon. Member from going into detail during budget. We are now wondering Hon. Speaker, the Hon. Member who is presenting is going into specific details. Please, let us have standard. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Like what I have said, we are
talking about Votes and Votes are specific to commissions or certain institutes. So, whenever you comment on anything concerning that, I will have to reprimand you but when it comes to issues within the budget which talk about the 34 Votes you can discuss about that. I hope that is clear.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me take you to paragraph 249 and I am not so sure which word I can use on this paragraph but the Speaker’s statement says, ‘Mr. Speaker Sir, Excise Tax remains a vital instrument for Government to discourage the consumption of products,” I will not go on to mention the products. However, it defies logic for a Minister of Finance to say that he wants to discourage consumption in an economy where aggregate demand is actually falling down each and every day.
Most of the manufacturers in this country are closing and the reason is that people have no disposable income to go and buy the things that they are manufacturing. If you then increase taxes on the basis that you want to reduce consumption in an economy that has already an aggregate demand that is falling each and every day, I do not know what economic sense it makes Hon. Speaker. In my view, this was the time for the Hon. Minister to reduce taxes so that he can spare aggregate demand and say the little disposable income that Zimbabweans have can be able to buy something. Through aggregate demand, we are able to make sure that our economy grows and our local firms are able to employ.
As I come to an end Hon. Speaker, let me say this -as I indicated, a budget is an important part of any country’s activities per year. As a matter of culture, tradition and practice of this Parliament, what we have been doing before is that before a Budget or a Supplementary Budget, we would have a pre-budget seminar. The reason why we were holding those pre and post budget seminars was to ensure that we sit down and are able to interrogate the Hon. Minister through a workshop or seminar and come to an agreement of whether what he has here will assist the economy or not. However, failure of us to have that pre or post budget seminar and then pushing us to approve this Supplementary Budget, I think at the end of the day, we will regret. This budget statement is actually going to add woes and misery to Zimbabweans. It is not going to improve our welfare. So, it is my view and submission that this House should reject to approve this budget – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – we should not approve this supplementary Budget until we first have a post budget seminar where we are going to interact on a one on one with the Hon. Minister on issues to do with this budget. I just want to thank you Hon. Speaker.
+HON. PHULU: I want to thank you Madam Speaker for the time
you have given me so that I can talk a little bit about the budget. I want to thank Hon. Minister, Prof. Ncube who is the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for presenting the budget to us. I do not want to take time because people have already said so many things about the budget. I will talk about a few things that need to be taken care of in this budget especially when you will be presenting the next budget.
Firstly, we look at the issue which people have already spoken about, that is the separation of powers. I think this is a very important issue to talk about. Parliament was given 68% of the budget, Judiciary was given 128% and the Executive is supposed to be getting more because of its programmes. At the same time, Parliament and the
Judiciary are supposed to get more money because of their programmes. When we are looking at the Judiciary, they have to build more courts; these are some of the important programmes which need to be looked into. When we are looking at the Executive, you will be talking about the corruption issues. In Parliament, we would like to be given some adjustments so that we do our programmes without facing any challenges.
In constituencies where we come from, we would like you to look into the passport issues, it seems to be disturbing. People are complaining about this issue, they are always calling us daily. I talked to one lady who said she came here to renew her passport and this has taken her more than two years still waiting for the passport and the husband is out of the country. This is also affecting marriages. We would like this side to be given more money so that people will not face challenges in applying for their passports.
We would like to look into the birth certificate issue. They should be given enough money to cater for birth certificates and each and every district needs to have these offices. Places like Lupane, Bulawayo and Tsholotsho, people need to get passports and birth certificates without facing any challenges, they have to decentralise. I would like to talk about the figures of the year on year inflation; even the business community were complaining about these figures, they need to know about the inflation. Hon. Minister Mthuli Ncube has to look into such issues. For example, there is a Professor who said he does not want to research on Africa because they do not show the figures or the statistics. By not announcing all these figures, we will not be having any way of getting them, it is a very big challenge to those who are doing research. Some will be researching on different issues and these may be of help to rural communities but this will lead us to the black market getting information pertaining to figures and statistics.
Looking at our Constitution, it talks more about transparency. Under Section 9 (1) they talk about the principles of administration and its importance in the country. We would like a decision which talks about the statistics to be erased or reversed or maybe they find another way which will not show that the figures are not supposed to be known by the public.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we talked about pension issues, people are complaining about the pension fund, the challenges they are facing when they go to the banks. The elderly who are getting their pensions and the war veterans. Yes, I agree with things that were being said by the different Hon. Members who contributed on this motion that we need to take care of our war veterans and especially their pensions.
Sometimes we forget even the elderly people, people who should be considered in their own category whether they are war veterans or not. We need to take into consideration that we are here because of those elderly people. These people worked for us to get to the stage that we are as a country. You realise these elderly people are the ones who took you to school. As we speak, they are still looking after small children in the villages and townships.
I realise from the figures that were given, we are providing for disability, but my question is those elderly people who are looking after the disabled, they are subsidising you. Why not take care of the elderly people who are taking care of these children, who will then be forced to use their money in taking care of these children. Why can we not takecare of the elderly people and a certain vote be allocated to them?
There is a paragraph that I am really worried about on page 28 and page 29 where there is the issue of income adjustment is mentioned. You indicated that these are meant for the civil servants which I am not really agreeing to, that it will be enough for them. When we talk about the pensioners, there is only a fleeting reference to them. What I will say is it is just as good as ignoring them. Why not allocate specific figures to them, acknowledging that they are there than simply saying we will just cascade to them. I will say this is more of a condescending attitude and we are using them just as a footnote while there are people who are so important in our country.
I also want to add more on the elderly people that I have been talking about. When we are talking about safety nets, there is a vulnerability report that we spoke about. I want to indicate that the vulnerable people will be affected by drought and you realise that as a nation, we now have urban drought. So many people staying in urban areas are not able to fend for themselves and I will also mention that there is now urban poverty that the nation is faced with. If you research properly, you will realise the people that are living in urban areas are largely affected more than people who are staying in rural areas.
There is also an issue to do with cars specifically for the disabled. Yes, you mentioned that you will give rebate to such cars. It is a good thing that you have done Minister, but in paragraph 335, you mentioned that when the person who is disabled purchases that car and the person passes on before five years, you will request for payment of duty. We need to look on the conditions. What if the disabled person who has bought the car is the breadwinner in the family? If you are therefore requesting for the person to pay for the duty, where are you expecting them to get the money? Sometimes the person will not be able to pay and will be putting a burden to the family. I do not know how we can handle this matter. I know sometimes it is a way of trying to protect them from maybe people who buy cars for them and if they decide to be mischievous and have a way of killing them. I think it is a very painful thing what is there in paragraph 335. We should have a way of changing
it.
I will also touch on the issue that was highlighted yesterday on the prices for the Government. When the prices go up, we realise that there are people in the rural areas who are unemployed as well as those who are employed. They will not be able to get the money to afford those services. So that means that somebody who is a teacher for example is unable to come to Harare twice or thrice a month because the tollgate prices have gone up, servicing cars has gone up as well. Therefore, I would like to say that the money that people are getting to support those who have spoken before me like Hon. Sacco and others, we need to ensure that their money is backed with the RTGS and the United States dollar so that they are paid the money that is equal to the increase in prices.
I think we must look into the aspect of workers because they are important. They are very vital as they work for us even up to today. We should not look down upon them and burden them. When we do the budget and we have a theme of putting foundation on prosperity, we should not leave behind the elderly as well as the workers because we cannot prosper without those people. I addition, the prosperity that we are seeking, our elders are at the foundation. The elders did not work yesteryear. It is quite unfair because even today they are paying for our future because they are teaching the children and taking them to school yet we are supposed to be doing that and the Government is supposed o be responsible. There is need to respect the elderly.
Please, I emphasise that you should not forget the elderly. When we speak, we speak of the youth. We need their empowerment. We also need the disabled to be empowered. I also want to emphasise on the issue of war veterans. There is a form of discrimination that is called ageism which I read about yesterday. We have a lot of ageism in Zimbabwe. The issue of taking advantage of the elderly, I think that is why we have bad luck and our rain is not coming. I think we do not even respect our spirit mediums. The fact that we are disrespecting our elders is the one that is a road block to us prospering. I would want to stand on top of the table to emphasise this because I believe it is very vital.
Also, there is the issue of drought. We were looking forward to issues of cloud seeding and many other things that can be done that were mentioned by the Hon. Members of Parliament. I think there is need for us to know and have information about our weather. There is need to put aside money for cloud seeding as well as research so that we know about our weather and we are able to predict what could happen in the near future.
In addition, there is something I realise, Mr. Speaker Sir, on page 48 paragraph 148, it speaks about the Zambezi Water Project. I realise the money that was set aside for various dams. That is a good thing, Hon. Speaker, however we would want there to be an increase on that money because water is a problem. Therefore, we believe that amount is too little as the money is in RTGS, it will not take us far. The Zambezi Water Project is very important in the Matabeleland region because it is a place where there are water shortages. Therefore, there is need to allocate a lot more money than what it received.
There is a statement that I say on paragraph 148. It said that phase two and phase three will be managed by stakeholders. I am not sure if that is a typographical error. I think that the Minister should elaborate on who the stakeholders are. We should also know how much he consulted concerning those stakeholders. I know some of them, they are friends of mine and I wonder if they know about this or it is an error that phases two and three will be handled by them? I am wondering if it will be taken away from the Government and given to the stakeholders and you will not give the project anymore money or you mean that you are going to work hand in glove so that they finish up on these phases? There is need for clarity concerning this issue because I do not understand it and it is worrying me. I have seen it in this Budget for the first time. Is it another way of the Government abandoning this project and giving it to the people? I do not understand it. I would want there to be clarity and would want to know what the Hon. Minister would say about it. It is an issue that we need to speak about because this is a very vital project.
There is also the issue of transport. It was postulated that there will be an urban mass transport system and this is very welcome. People are facing challenges with the ZUPCO buses because the buses do not stop at the bus stops. They just pass through and do not come back. Again, the elderly and the disabled are finding it difficult to use these buses. There is need for a timetable and bus stops to be set for these buses. Urban mass transport system is very important and is something that we welcome. However, we would want you again, to clarify how it is going to function. We would want to know if it will have its own system and whether it will be run by the central government. We would want you to devolve this system if there is an opportunity to do so, so that people can find a way of transport. I would like to thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for the time that you gave me and the little time that you added on for me. If i heard time, i would have wanted to speak to the issue of devolution. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. KHUMALO): Order
Hon. Members. Order please! I want to make a small announcement to make. It seems, through the debates, people are hungry and we have decided to provide some food at the Members’ Dining. We have provided Members with food. It looks like as you debate, some people are very hungry and there are a lot of repetitions. We think you have to eat. We will go out in batches so that some remain debating. We want the Minister, when we finish eating, to respond and we go to the next item. It looks like we are ready for the responses from the Minister – [HON. MADZIMURE: We still want to respond.] – You are going to debate but I am saying, when we come back, we need to ask the Minister to respond. Please, it must be smooth. Do not make a lot of noise as you go out, those who want to go and eat – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, I am saying we have decided to give you food. You are not paying.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of
privilege?
HON. CHIKWINYA: My point of privilege is that, by today’s
process, are we going to get to the Committee Stage? If that is going to be yes, I was going to beg leave that one, we have not been given the opportunity to consult and two, our brains, it is not about the hunger, it is literally the brains which have been stretched. Since tomorrow is a Thursday, we can then go into Committee Stage tomorrow. It was going to be my plea.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. With the way
we are moving, I think we are able to allow the Minister to respond after, then we will see what happens next. Let us see the Minister respond and we will see how far we go. Can we proceed? Those who want to eat can go but let us not go all of us, we want to continue. Those who want to debate, be careful, if I omit you here – when your name is here and you are eating, I am no longer going to call your name. I will just strike you. So if you want to debate, remain here debating – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, as you go out, may you respect the rules?
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Why is everyone standing?
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, why every member is
standing up to debate is because of the manner in which we do our budget cycle as Parliament of Zimbabwe. This is why you find every member would want to debate this Bill. No Member was given an opportunity to understand the Minister’s vision, that is what the Minister wanted to achieve. In a normal Parliamentary democracy, what should have started should have been a paper by the Minister to Parliament which would then go to the Budget Committee. In a normal Parliament, the Committee would then consult and various committees would also look at the Minister’s paper to understand the aspirations of Government and then try to compare with the peoples’ aspirations, what they expected to see. However, in our Parliament it still remains a myth, it is an ambush. The old Westminister’s style where we see the Minister with a bag which we do not know what it contains is out dated. It is this Parliament though that is expected to allocate the money. The question is very clear, the responsibility to allocate money lies with Parliament and if it is Parliament with that mandate then Parliament should contribute towards the line items where the money will be spent. This is the best and only way to measure progress. There is no way you can expect us to exercise an oversight role when we have no contribution at all to the people’s aspirations. We are there to represent the people and when we are out there, people tell us exactly where they want their money to be spent on, constituency by constituency. That is why the whole idea of CDF was brought up because it was identified that there is a huge gap between the Government’s own interpretation of the people’s needs and what the people actually want on the ground. This is why you have every Member of Parliament itching to debate because this is their only opportunity to vent out what they know the people they represent want to see in the budget.
Under normal circumstances, any money Bill should come before the Budget, Finance and Economic Development Committee because it impacts directly on the people that we represent. If there are taxes, they are going to affect the people that we represent. In our system however, it is the Ministry bureaucrats who decide on the taxes. Our people do not know what the taxes are going to be used for. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection] – A very respectable Hon. Member is saying vachaziva. This is exactly kutonga nedemo where you do not expect people to say anything to contribute towards their own life and democracy. We fought against the Smith regime because we were being told that mutero wanzi mari yakati namudzviti and that was final. People had no contribution. This is exactly the same system that we have where we now have toll gates fees being increased from $2 to $10. Why?
Where is the money going to and to achieve what, we do not know.
Under normal circumstances, the Members of Parliament would have contributed to what they want to see and there is nothing of that sort that happened. This is precisely why even the Minister did not even bother to say what the money that was allocated in December last year, this is what we have achieved. There is nothing from the Minister’s statement that indicates to us what …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Why do
you not get into the debate because time is moving?
HON. MADZIMURE: This is exactly the debate, this is the procedure of coming up with a budget and you cannot go to the Votes when you do not understand the framework of the budget. As far as I am concerned, it does not help me to concentrate on saying on this particular area we allocated so much but you should have allocated so much, to achieve what? I do not understand it. So, as a Member of Parliament, I feel aggrieved because the budget cycle formulation that we have in this country does not meet the standards of a developing country. The budget concentrates on spending money but does very little to address the issues of where the money will come from. If you look at the situation right now, I am a manufacturer myself. We do not have power for 18 hrs which leaves us 8hrs with power because it comes back at 10pm. At 5am it is switched off. All the taxes that you are talking about, who are you going to tax and all the duties that you are talking about who is going to pay that duty if we are not producing? We have employees to take care of, how are we going to treat them? Are we going to retrench them? We talk of surplus but we have an ESKOM electricity bill that we have not paid. Why did we not pay so that we keep our industry going? Where I operate from, I am close to a company called Brown Engineering which is one of those companies that were growing and it has been expanding. It supplies farm equipment and right now they have an order of close to $10 million to supply to Malawi. What then happens to those contracts? These are the real issues that we must be talking about and this is exactly what the budget should be addressing. On electricity, by such time we will have paid so much and we are going to have more electricity but there is nothing. There is a serious disconnect of what is happening on the ground and what is presumed to be happening at government level.
Then the issue of water is another problem. You manufacture foam rubber and you use water and all of a sudden, in the process of mixing chemicals you do not have water – you know what happens, it dries up and whatever container you will have been using is sealed. To undo the damage costs money. Even yesterday the whole Parliament of Zimbabwe spent the day without water and because of that, there were blockages. Right now, the City of Harare is dealing with the blockage right at our door step because tissues were being thrown in and no water was flushing. These are the problems, what measures are there in the supplementary budget to deal with those issues, there is nothing. You then see $2.9 billion going to Command Agriculture which the President said in his own statement that he will not continue sinking, throwing money into a pit. The President said that and the Minister of Finance concurred and said he was not going to give any money to Command Agriculture because the returns out of that were not commensurate with what had been invested. It is there and right now, we are talking of a drought when we sunk in $3 billion which is enough to import our own food without producing for three years. Without producing, we could have got a supply of three years and we give other people the money just to squander and that is exactly what we are doing. What is it that we achieved with the $3 billion that we gave to the farmers? But to make matters worse Mr. Speaker, you cannot prove that it was given to the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement because the Ministry is refusing that it got that money. It was only given the figure to include in their books. So, where did the money go? The $3 billion was close to the US$4 billion that we wanted to spend in that particular year, the evidence is there and what are we trying to do.
Mr. Speaker, I am not speculating, I am not lying – the evidence was given under oath and today we have $2.9 billion to be spent in the next four months. The supply of fertiliser where we have fertiliser supplies, we will not be able to purchase so much fertiliser. It will be impossible to spend $2.9 billion and I do not know what kind of $2.9 billion we are talking about. Do we divide by seven or by ten to get to the real value of a US dollar? So Mr. Speaker, when we debate some issues, you were being associated with this budget and to be called names by the people after having approved such a budget, it is unfair. Whenever you approve a budget, people would want to measure progress and in our case, when we approved the December budget, the standard of living was at a certain level and today the standard of living has gone down to an extent where my child cannot go with a sandwich to school because there is no flour to make bread. Children are going to school with sadza ne mangai Mr. Speaker, in this modern world.
So Mr. Speaker, what we are doing here kutamba tsavatsava.
There is virtually nothing that is going to come out of this budget. I am being realistic. Mr. Speaker, talking about the issue of even the exchange rate, changing from Zim dollar. We changed from Zim dollar to the US dollar and now from US dollar to Zim dollar. What is happening on the ground is a clear indication that the Zim dollar is not going to hold. It will not happen, it will not work and the way we have been converting these things Mr. Speaker, the pensioners, if we look at the percentages which their pensions have been increased, we talk of over 30%. A person who was getting $80 in August last year could take $50, go and buy groceries or basics that would take that person through the month to the next pay day but today the same $80 might not even take that person to where he/she will collect his or her pay amount.
Mr. Speaker, here I am talking of policy inconsistencies. As long as we are inconsistent in our policy pronouncements, no one will take us seriously and that is purely why the mega deals of the $15 billion that we were talking about before elections, of the platinum investors from Russia. Those people will not come to a country where there are so many inconsistencies and you were there in Russia asking them and I think they told you exactly the reason why they were not here. Otherwise, some of the investors could have hosted you – hosting their future partners in business and that could not happen because they have no confidence at all with our economy. So, policy inconsistency is our biggest problem Mr. Speaker.
The issue of accountability is another one. There was this day when we heard that we got some grant from China of about $15 million and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development said accept the donation and the donation came in tractors and vehicles. Imagine directors and deputy directors and secretaries sat down and decided just to share amongst themselves and no record. Right now as Parliament, we have problems. We cannot perform our duties because we are poorly funded. Why are we being poorly funded? The reason is very simple – they do not want Parliament to exercise its oversight role. Like right now, we have become a nuisance in as far as Ministry officials are concerned.
We are now asking too many questions and because of that, you will not be able to travel but when it comes to their own travels, they have all exceeded their allocations. They will travel as and when they want to. How many times have we failed to meet even the Minister of Finance and Economic Development because he is out and if you then carry out an evaluation to say out of all those trips, what is it that we have benefitted? That is why we do not have electricity because we have not been able to cultivate any relationship with other people, otherwise we could be paying or having money to pay for electricity and business will be going on.
On the issue of production Mr. Speaker it is a serious matter. As long as we remain in this darkness, just forget it.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are left with five
minutes.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker, I am
also about to wind up. Even if you want to extend, you can extend the time. There is no problem.
Mr. Speaker, we have a serious challenge – we need to address our fundamentals. We need to move as a country. I think one thing that lacks and without that thing, we are going nowhere. Tikapota tichiita matalks naana Muteki tichisiya kuita zviri relevant, this country will go nowhere. So, the issue of our country has to be addressed.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it has been ruled earlier
on that we do not talk politics here. Nelson Chamisa lost the election, he went to court, and he lost again. He was given a chance to come on board and he refused. He is not a special or a sacred cow that should be invited. So, they must keep quiet. He has been invited and he did not accept the invitation. They must keep quiet about that please. They are annoying us about mentioning someone who lost. He is an ordinary citizen who should not waste our time. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I did not talk of
Nelson Chamisa, I did not talk of any election but Mr. Speaker, in our language we say kuvhunduka chati kwatara kunge une katurike, he has said it all he is not even confident, I did not question it but he is not confident that the elections were won. That is why as the Chief Whip, he is thinking that he has to defend the party at any cost and he stood up to reveal the facts that I had not revealed. I did not say that but he said so, so if that is the case, then talk to Mr. Chamisa. Mr. Speaker, there must be cohesion in this country and the relevant people in this country must sit down and make sure they talk and the country moves forward.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, I realise
the Hon. Minister is not in the House, I hope that he is represented by officials from his Ministry and that they will be able to pick the main points from the debate. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is important that we talk about the context under which this supplementary budget and budget statement has been prepared and presented. It is clear that the Hon. Minister has to be cognizant that the economy is by and large dysfunctional as we speak.
The context of galloping inflation estimated at over year on year 558% with too much money chasing few goods using electronic transfers, RTGS, plastic money and mobile money. The context of high levels of unemployment averaging 95% depending on where you are coming from, the context of a limping agricultural sector that is underperforming, notwithstanding the huge capital outlay that is poured in to the sector exemplified by the 3 billion dollars that was not adequately accounted for. The context of law capacity utilisation of our industries, for those that are still functioning because a good many of our industries are either scaling down or shutting down outright; the context of low morale in the civil service with sub-economic salaries and extremely poor pathetic working conditions for our civil servants, the context of high drop out rates in schools particularly for girls; the
context of poor service delivery generally, the health sector, education sector, water supply, provision of electricity, road maintenance, infrastructure maintenance and upgrading; the context also of low perception index of Zimbabwe as an investment destination by both international and foreign investors; the context of poor and declining quality of life for citizens of this country. The context of manmade and natural internal displacement of our people, if you look at Cyclone Idai, that is natural displacement. You also look at arbitrary eviction of settlers of indigenous people by Government without providing adequate safety nets and alternative places to stay.
So, this is the context that the Minister has to take into account in crafting a pro-poor budget and from what I see, this context has been by and large, ignored by the Minister because this budget or supplementary budget is not speaking to this context. Mr. Speaker Sir, the original budget allocations were in US dollars and that has been alluded to already on a 1:1 with the bond note that is the budget presented in
December 2018.
I will put it this way; the Government through the Hon. Minister arbitrarily converted the US dollar values to ZIM dollars and the infamous – I think it has become infamous interbank rate ruled and continues to rule. Effectively, therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, what appears to be an upward review or adjustment of allocations to various ministries and departments is in fact a serious and debilitating downward review because the values now in terms of what can be purchased has actually gone down. One thousand dollars in December 2018 and one thousand dollars now, the two cannot be compared. So, this gives credence to the need to keep in my view the original budget. Do not change it at all and leave it at the values as budgeted in 2018 and only multiply by a factor of 8 or 10 depending on the interbank rate ruling at the time of disbursement.
If the budget were maintained as is or as was approved and at the time of disbursement, use a factor of 8 to disburse and then they will not be any need to be doing any adjustment at all because it will be sort of self calculating and self adjusting. So, because that budget was in US dollars, we leave it like that and not change anything. Only that at the point of disbursement, use the ruling rate to disburse to ministries and departments and then we will be okay because now ministries and departments have lost out.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will pin point the negative impact of abandoning the multicurrency situation or regime that obtained prior to SI142, if I am not wrong. I will not really go into detail because a good many of previous Hon. Members who have spoken before me have given the details. The civil servants have become poorer, I will end at that because the details to that others have already given. I might just add that what civil servants are now doing is to subsidise Government when they go to work and what they are being paid is being paid to go to work and they are not being paid for working.
So, it is a question of paying them to go to work but not paying them for working and so they are worse off. The pensioners have been condemned to destitution and the details of course, as alluded to, they are sleeping out in the pavement trying to access the monthly payout that they get in installments not enough to take them back home. The war veterans condemned to paupers that has already been alluded to. The productive sector, industries notable giving the examples of bakeries, have shut down and now we are using pole and dagger ovens as a country and we seem to be celebrating that, it is a step to stagnation as opposed to progress and the quality of life is thus compromised. ZESA is badly impacted, no wonder Government has sort of, in a hidden way, maybe accepted that the USD ought not to have been done away with because now the Government says hotels and others can pay ZESA in foreign currency for example in Victoria Falls. Local authorities have been impacted as well, the police and the army are under resourced, workers in the private sector also struggling because more often than not, the private sector takes a cue – what is Government doing for its workers, they sort of draw parallels before they can also set conditions of service for themselves. So, again it is impacting the private sector except perhaps for the C.E.O and those high up in the hierarchy.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me mention about vote number 19 because I have particular interest in that. The Government and Parliament are products of political processes and we must recognise that fact. There have been delays in disbursing what is due to several Government departments and ministries and of course under the Political Parties Finance Act, we cannot have political parties being stifled in terms of resources that are constitutionally due to them.
The existence of functional and vibrant political parties is key to the promotion also of a vibrant democracy in the country. So, delays in disbursing what is due to political parties in terms of the Constitution should be considered as a way of styfling democratic activity in the country. Parliament exists and functions because of the existence of political parties. Government exists and functions because of the existence and the vibrancy of political parties. So, I would want the Hon. Minister to let this august House to and the nation to understand why they are deliberate delays in disbursing amounts due to political parties. In any case, I notice also in the budget that there is an upward adjustment for the vote for political parties in terms of the Political Parties Finance Act. Zimbabwe is supposed to be a multi party democracy and as such, democracy is compromised if political parties are hamstrung through withholding what is constitutionally due to them.
So, this must be addressed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, having spoken so much, allow me to make one fascinating observation. The presentation by the Hon. Minister and the Blue book are not speaking to each other. This is one thing they must also take note of. I have made some observations in terms of the calculations and seen that the two are not speaking to each other in terms of the allocations. So, the figures, both in the supplementary budget presentation and the blue book are not adding up in many instances. There are glaring arithmetical errors normally attributable to students in elementary school or those students doing elementary statistics. For example, the revised budget less the original budget should equal the additional allocation, see page 3 of the blue book, you will notice that the OPC, Vote number 1, on the summary, there is a variance of -7, 8 million. There is also Vote 2 of Parliament of Zimbabwe where there is a variance between the original and the revised. In brief, Vote 1, has examples, Vote number 2 and Vote number 24, Judicial Service Commission, glaring arithmetical errors. It is therefore, easy for one to decide against passing this supplementary budget in its current architecture.
Mr. Speaker Sir, pressure is mounting because of the circumstances obtaining in the country and will continue to mount for Government to do the right things in terms of improving the economy and the well being of our people. There is a lot of pressure outside. As has been alluded to, we must continue to engage and to talk to one another, to resolve the crisis, structural and institutional reforms as has already been alluded to; are key to enable the economy to perform – that is very essential. There must be mechanisms to help this country to transition from its current status and create conditions that are conducive to the birth or re-emergency of a vibrant democracy and for our economy and our nation to grow.
I will end by saying, if we do not do the above, we will continue with the vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment rather than a virtuous cycle of economic progress and development. The country’s debt situation is a major cause for concern that must be addressed diligently. One question I would have wanted to ask the Minister, in paragraph 290 of this book, there is talk about the tax thresholds having been increased to 700 at 0% P.A.Y.E. It goes on to say those earning in foreign currency will continue to pay their taxes without the thresholds identified or pinpointed. So, it remains difficult to understand what will happen, whether you also get to USD 700 before you are taxed or the tax threshold for US$ earners would be different. That is paragraph 292 – what are the thresholds?
On paragraph 108, there is also lip service to mining because it does not speak to issues relating to artisanal miners. Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir – [AN HON. MEMBER: Zvakwana.] - Iwewe zvako ndizvo zvakwana – [Laughter.] -
Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir, I implore the Hon. Minister to look very closely to the issues raised and discussed in this debate and ensure that the Budget is pro-poor and addresses the major concerns as highlighted.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO): I
would like to thank the Hon. Members who have not gone to eat. They were very quiet and following the debate. Those who are coming are starting to make noise.
*HON. C. MOYO: Thank you for affording me this opportunity to ventilate my contribution to this important 2019 mid-year budget review and supplementary budget statement. I would like to start by stabilisation. There is something that I can see concerning the
Transitional Stabilisation Programme. When I look at inflation, in July
2018 it was at 4.29%. In 2019 in January inflation was at 15%, February 15.95%, April 70.86%, May 97.85%, June 175.66%. This is the current inflation rate in Zimbabwe. Let us look at our neighbouring southern African countries for example South Africa where inflation rate is at
4.1%, Botswana 2.8%, Mozambique 2.3% and Zambia 10.5 %. Mr.
Speker it is so embarrassing that our inflation rate is so alarming. For us to say the situation is stable with the inflation characterising our country since January to June 2019 which is at 175%, it would be a lie.
We are not realising stabilisation. Others mentioned the issue of electricity. Electricity is a challenge. Where I come from in MpopomaPelandaba, there are people who are losing their lives because of load shedding, this is because they are not used to using candles and gas. A lot of people are losing their lives. In fact, people are asking what is the real problem in the energy sector because people prepay electricity and fail to get the service prepaid for. The Minister should look into it and ensure that people get the electricity that they will have paid for.
Fuel is going up almost every week. People are now being forced to use the ZUPCO buses. They are supposed to be using commuter omnibuses because they are the ones that they prefer but they have to wait until ten or twelve midnight to board the cheap ZUPCO buses. We have destroyed the commuter omnibus system. So for us to say there is stabilisation, it is a fallacy. There are no jobs in Zimbabwe, hence we cannot say that the economy is stable. We cannot say that the TSP has brought stability. Let us put money to revive CSC in Bulawayo and ZISCO Steel in Kwekwe.
The supplementary budget must enhance the lives of the people once it has been passed but in this budget is not addressing bread and butter issues. It is unfortunate that there is no mention of how the external debt would be paid and we cannot leave it like that. The budget should talk to the issue of external debt.
On page 20 – ZIMSTAT has an Act which was put in 2007. There are qualified personnel at ZIMSTAT. They release figures concerning year to year inflation but the Minister is saying no, let us leave this and we look at it in February 2020 but there is an Act that supports the Central Statistical Office. The mantra that Zimbabwe is open for business is shocking because the inflation rate defeats this whole purpose. We need to look at our year on year inflation rate. Now that the Minister has said ZIMSTATS should stop publishing the statistics for now and we want investors to come to Zimbabwe – what does that mean?
Let me talk about civil servants; they have been awarded cushion allowance but everyone is experiencing economic hardships. Are you able to cushion the population of about 14-16 million in Zimbabwe. You cannot say you are going to cushion yet you are segregating. You give others money and others do not get. If you want to cushion, you must cushion the whole population. It is not right to cushion civil servants only. The Hon. Minister should clarify on what measures he has put in place to resuscitate the economy than to give unworthy cushioning allowances.
I concur with those who spoke before me who said the military police got more money. Although the army killed a number of people in August 2018 and January 2019, they should be given adequate remuneration to enable them to look after their families not that you give them 21% at one time. That will not work in a population of 14-16 million and it will not work, simply.
Let me turn to page 17 on paragraph 46; I am sorry to say that the Minister himself agreed in this august House that the 1:1 ratio got to a point where it was no longer working. Some of us actually brought it up to say 1:1 is not going to work but he has now agreed that 1:1 was no longer susstainable. Since he has agreed that this 1:1 ration did not work, we gave him advice on the issue of the 2% tax and told him that it will not work. We also told him that S.I. 142 of 2019 will not work but if the Minister says 1:1 did not work – when we told him, he should listen to us when we give him advice and that will enable the economy to improve. In a nutshell, this supplementary budget will not work as long as do not address the crisis of legitimacy and political reforms. I thank you.
On paragraph 4,
Some Hon. Members having crossed between the Chair and the Speaker on the floor.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): You
are crossing the Chair. Order Hon. Members.
*HON. C. MOYO: I am sorry that there are Hon. Members who are coming into this House who have taken some intoxicating drinks, so they are making noise. They are disturbing my debate.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You said they have taken
some drinks, are you saying that they have taken alcoholic drinks. Can you please withdraw your statement Hon. Moyo.
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order, other Hon. Members are making noise.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have requested Hon. Moyo
to withdraw his words where he said there are people who are drunk in this august House.
*HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker, I withdraw my
words. It will assist me as I debate in terms of the noise that is here. Let me say that there is Zimbabwe infrastructure bond. Madam Speaker, I think there is need for you to look for a breathalyser.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Okay, thank you and you
may proceed.
*HON. C. MOYO: The reason why infrastructure bond will not work is because of corruption that has characterised our nation. If you look at the issues of corruption, they say Zimbabwe in 2017 was on position 157 out of 175. In 2018, …
*HON. S. BANDA: My point of order is that I do not know whether taking snuff in the House is allowed. I see Hon. Chipato is taking snuff in the House. If she is possessed in the House, what are we going to do?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you for that. When I
witness that I will give a ruling but for now, I have not witnessed anything.
*HON. C. MOYO: On paragraph 120, there is a bond called Vaka Zimbabwe Infrastructure Bond for now up to December. What I would like to say is that this bond will not work because the Hon. Minister should clarify as to how he is going to deal with the issue of corruption.
I said in 2017, Zimbabwe when it came to corruption rankings was on
157 out of 175. In 2018, it was at 160 which means corruption increased.
The Hon. Minister was there, so how then is this going to happen? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. May
the Hon. Member be heard in silence. Hon. Members, we have a long night, so can we all be patient for us to proceed with our work. I said that once I witnessed that I will give a ruling.
*HON. C. MOYO: What I was saying Hon. Speaker, is that the Hon. Minister should give us measures that he is going to put in place in order to deal with corruption that has increased because this affects the Vaka Zimbabwe Infrastructure Bond.
On the issue of power supply strategies, increasing the cost of fuel yet people do not have money does not work. He is saying that there is money that is going to be kept known as the Escrow Account and that money will be set aside for foreign currency. This does not work because people no longer have confidence and trust in the way we are doing business.
Let me talk about the issue of local authorities. The challenges that local authorities are facing is that people are paying using the RTGS system or the bond notes but the local authorities need foreign currency for chemicals. So, that will not work. Like I said, it did not work when we talked of 1:1. Local authorities will wait for foreign currency from the Ministry yet the Ministry does not have that money. In the end it is the populace that suffers. The old people will suffer in rural areas because the city council does not have foreign currency to buy the chemicals to treat the water.
After saying all this Madam Speaker, it is not possible to talk about the supplementary budget because of the changes that we keep making in terms of policies. Today we have another policy and tomorrow we change to another. The challenge that we have is that democracy is not visible. The people that we represent do not see that democracy. There is no transparency in terms of how we are working. We changed the 2018
Budget …
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Are we now debating general issues or
the budget?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Moyo, may we please
stick to what we are supposed to be debating.
*HON. C. MOYO: The people we represent Madam Speaker
know that there is a problem. There is a crisis in terms of legitimacy. So, those things go hand in hand, the issue of the budget and the issue of legitimacy as well as confidence. The supplementary will only work when those issues are addressed. Our political reforms have to be done.
Thank you.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Madam Speaker, my point of order is that I think that point made by the Hon. Member on legitimacy must be withdrawn.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: Madam Speaker ma’am, my point of
order is the point made by the Hon. Member on legitimacy must be withdrawn – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
*HON. NYATHI: Madam Speaker ma’am, I want to add my
voice to issues that have been raised by Hon. Members in this august House. Firstly, I want to thank all the Hon. Members who were contributing, it has reflected that all of us as Hon. Members want this budget to be dealt with for the good of the nation at large. I am going to be talking about four or five issues that I think have not been adequately addressed so that I avoid repetition.
I want to look at paragraph 83 which talks about agriculture and food security. What I liked in the budget is that there is a provision that the GMBs in Zimbabwe should decentralise and have GMB collection depots to enable the farmers to take their grain to GMB. The other thing I want to stress is that there is drought and I want to thank the Head of State for his vision in terms of Command Agriculture. Our silos were full and we saved a lot of foreign currency that should have been channeled towards acquiring grain to feed our people in Zimbabwe. What it means is that, even though we are going to look for foreign currency to augment the grain that is there, Command Agriculture yielded positive results. It should be allocated more funds to ensure our country can prepare for other incidents that might happen in Zimbabwe especially in relation to climate change where seasons have changed.
We might not get adequate rainfall.
I move on to paragraph 102, which talks about minerals in
Zimbabwe, especially on the issue of gold. You will realise that in Zimbabwe, we have a lot of minerals but I want to specifically zero in on gold. If you look at paragraph 109, it is talking about institutions like
Fidelity Printers and Refiners. I want to give advice to the Hon. Minister that he should allocate a lot of money to ensure that Fidelity can decentralise and establish more centres so that all gold finds its way to the Government because it is a low-hanging fruit that we have in Zimbabwe. The moment we curb illicit flows, we will get a lot of the much needed foreign currency.
I represent Shurugwi North Constituency; there is a lot of gold in Shurugwi. We have ZB Bank in Shurugwi but people have to travel long distances to sell their gold in areas like Gweru. This is not ideal in terms of security for those people who will be carrying their gold. Gold is sold to ZB Bank and such banks should facilitate decentralisation to ensure that gold does not change hands or get intercepted by middlemen before it gets to the Government.
I also want to talk about the issue of energy which was debated by a number of Hon. Members of Parliament, that we have a challenge of electricity in Zimbabwe. Currently, it would be good for us to start thinking of other measures to ensure that we have energy supply and set aside funding for such measures such as solar and try and harness renewable energy such as wind. Once we do that, Zimbabwe will not experience the challenges which it is experiencing today in terms of energy. If there is no electricity, production and development in the country decreases.
The Head of State is always marketing the country so that investors come to Zimbabwe to ensure that the industry is resuscitated. The efforts of the Head of State His Excellency Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa require that we as representatives in different constituencies should also invite investors in the areas that we represent to ensure that our country develops. I know that other people are saying, how will the investors come when there is no electricity, but that is what we are talking about in order to address the challenges.
I want to talk about paragraph 51 on the issue of GDP of our nation, that for us to come up with a balance of payment that is favourable, it is important that our country should avail a good allocation towards industry. Once industry is functional, that will enable us to get more money in terms of exports. As a result, our country will develop. If the Minister of Finance is talking about austerity for prosperity, what he is saying is that we were oprating under a negative budget, but now we are supposed to be resilient endure the current hardship to ensure that we move forward to a positive budget.
Most Hon. Members were advocating for our budget to increase but there are no Hon. Members who are giving solutions as to where that money can be found to increase the budget. I am saying that as
Members of Parliament, we should come up with ideas and advise the Government as to what should be done to develop our nation than for us to just criticise the Government. The Mid-Year Budget Review and Supplementary Budget was prepared by people who gave enough thought given the situation that we have in Zimbabwe and we need to applaud them for that. I was hoping that by the time I finish debating; all Hon. Members will applaud for me because I have said very important critical points. I thank you.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker
ma’am for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this budget. Firstly, Madam Speaker ma’am, I just want to make a point here; there is no legitimacy crisis in Zimbabwe. Madam Speaker Ma’am, we would like to thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for coming up with this supplementary budget statement. Madam Speaker,
I would like to urge the Minister to seriously consider the welfare of war veterans. War veterans are the vanguard of this country. They are recognised in the Constitution of this country and please, this is a very critical issue. In my constituency, I have war veterans. These people sacrificed a lot and we would like to see their lives improved. Please Hon. Minister, can you relook at the welfare of war veterans.
Secondly Madam Speaker, civil servants are doing a very good job in this country. I know your hands are very tight but please, let us look at their welfare. Teachers and headmasters were the pride of our communities. They were men and women of high status. Please, let us restore their dignity. Let us see what you can do, what you can squeeze in this dry cow to make sure that civil servants are well remunerated.
Madam Speaker, I would also like the Minister to look at agriculture. Maize is our staple food. The problem here is that prices have gone hay wire. I was doing the mathematics with the price being paid by GMB to the farmers for a tonne of maize and the amount of fertilizer and seed they need. They will not come out Minister. We need a subsidy for our farmers so that they can produce.
Madam Speaker, I would also like the Minister to relook at the duties on solar. Yes, you have reduced duty by 15% on batteries, but Hon. Minister please - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Minister - shut up! – [Laughter.]- You, shut up!
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chidakwa withdraw.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: I have got nothing to withdraw here.
Will you shut up! - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chidakwa, may you
kindly withdraw.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: Thank you very much - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May you withdraw.
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: No problem I withdraw, but some people must shut up - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chidhakwa I am very
worried with your choice of words. I understand what that means. May you kindly withdraw?
HON. P. CHIDAKWA: Thank you very much. Alright, I withdraw. Hon. Minister, we have got a problem with electricity. You can solve your problem by removing all duties on solar equipment.
Once you remove them, then we can have electricity. Please Hon.
Minister look at that.
I represent a rural constituency. Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to capacitate DDF. DDF is the cornerstone of all development in our rural constituencies. Without DDF we do not have water, roads, bridges and buildings. So Hon. Minister, with all due respect, please can we capacitate DDF with machinery. 60% of the money you are allocating to DDF is going to plant hire instead of going to service delivery. So, if we can capacitate DDF, that they can have their own equipment, we would have gone a long way in improving the lives of our people.
Finally, I think this is a very good starting point. Yes, we are rebuilding this country - austerity for prosperity. With those few amendments, I would urge everybody to vote and approve this budget. Thank you.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to - [HON. MEMBERS: He debated yesterday]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: He did not debate yesterday.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this very important -
[HON. MEMBERS: He debated yesterday. Arimo muHansard.]-
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: I did not debate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Paradza, order!
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am
only going to focus on one area of the budget and I am deliberately doing so because I deem it to be the most critical element in view of the drought at hand and that is vote number 8 which is to do with agriculture.
I would like to firstly thank the Minister for acknowledging the urgent need…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Musikavanhu, we are
not yet at the Committee of Supply.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Okay, point taken. The vote for the agricultural…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Musikavanhu, we are
not yet at the Votes stage. Approach the Chair.
Hon. Musikavanhu approached the Chair.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Point taken Hon. Speaker. I would
like to appreciate the budget that was presented before us by the
Minister - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. May
the Hon. Member be heard in silence?
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: My only area of input is that I would like to emphasise a need for improvement at the consideration for irrigation projects in view of the need to increase our food security. If for example you look at the dams that we have in Masvingo Province, Masvingo holds 54% of the total water in the dams and yet we are only irrigating one crop. Zimbabwe requires 1.9 million tonnes of maize a year. We are in a position, if we commit to more irrigation, to meet a third of our maize requirement. Of the 350 000 tonnes of wheat that we require a year, it is feasible for us to irrigate it all. The same goes for soya bean where we can irrigate up to 35% of what is required. So, my emphasis, Hon. Speaker, is that we need to allocate more resources into augmenting our irrigation systems. Thank you.
*HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Madam Speaker for
according me this opportunity to debate on the Supplementary Budget.
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I think we respect the dressing that Hon. Members are supposed to wear. If we wear dresses with no sleeves, I do not know if that is allowed. Madam Speaker, there is an Hon. Member who is not wearing anything to cover her hands – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –She is now wearing a jacket – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, which Hon. Member is
that? – [HON. MEMBERS: She has put on a jacket.] – Okay. I think it has been overtaken by events. Thank you very much. Anyway, according to Standing Order No. 76, there is an expected decorum that you should – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order. I am saying, we are supposed to observe some certain decorum when we are in Parliament. So let us kindly observe that. Thank you Hon.
Members.
HON. D. SIBANDA: That is exactly what I wanted to point out Madam Speaker, to say the two Hon. Members, I think you should help them to behave accordingly because they are just crossing in front of the
Hon. Member who was – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. D. SIBANDA: My point of order Madam Speaker was to plead with you to help the two Hon. Members who just stand up and start crossing in front of the other Hon. Member who was giving his point of order. Remind them that they should respect the House. Thank you very much.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. D. Sibanda.
Hon. Members, what Hon. Sibanda is talking about is on our Standing Order No. 76, Part 2, 3 and 4. Let us be able to make sure that we do not cross the line, especially between the Speaker and the person who will be speaking. Thank you very much.
*HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the opportunity to add my voice on the Supplementary Budget. I am happy to be afforded this opportunity. Those who spoke before me have mentioned many things. Nevertheless, I still want to make an addition. As I was coming to Parliament this morning, I passed through two places in St. Marys where newspapers are sold and talked to the people who were saying something as regards the budget. I paid a lot of attention as Hon. Members were debating in this august House. There are some gaps which need to be filled and it is those lacunas that I intend to fill. First and foremost, since 1980 up to date, there are three Ministers of Finance whom I want to give special mention. The first one is the late Minister Bernard Chidzero, the second one is Hon. Biti and the third one is the current Minister Hon. Mthuli Ncube. These are the three Ministers that I want to discuss about. Let me start with the late
Hon. Chidzero. Whilst on that point, during the era of the late Hon.
Chidzero as Finance Minister ...
*HON. KASHIRI: On a point order Mr. Speaker. He has addressed Hon. Biti and he said Mthuli. He needs to amend that. He is called Mthuli Ncube not Mthuli – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for protecting me. I am saying the Ministers I have mentioned performed differently in trying to build the economy and everything else that was taking place.
During the late Hon. Chidzero and Hon. Biti’s time, their budgets were developmental and pro-people. When Hon. Mthuli became the Minister of Finance, we were optimistic considering the level of his education.
We have realised that his budgets are reducing people’s expectations. I would like to give an example of workers in Zimbabwe. If we go to paragraph 290 our budget had the minimum threshold of US$350as at December 2018 but you are now talking of $700 as of today. What it means in real terms is you are telling us that US$350 is now less than to RTGs $700. But if we take an example of the RTGS700, currently would give us US$78. This becomes ridiculous. What we are saying then is that your budget is not favourable to the workers. It is fictitious because when the workers receive $700 as threshold which in reality is equivalent to US$78. The Minister wants us to believe that the
RTGS$700 is a raised tax threshold whereas in reality workers’ salaries have been seriously eroded. Further, if one looks at the budget presented, there are a lot of things that are in the budget that do not tally. So, I am asking the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to come up with a good budget. For you to come up with a good budget to be followed by Hon. Members here, I urge you to ensure that there should be complimentarily between the figures in the Blue book and the statement so that what you are saying makes sense. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. MAKONYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for affording me
the opportunity to add my voice to the debate. If we are to look at the life that we are leading especially when moving from point A to point B, I require transport which is essential. On paragraph 186 on mass urban public transportation which refers to the ZUPCO buses ushered in by the Government, it is an important historic way of ensuring that workers are transported to and from work. On close examination, the Minister says that he is subsidising these ZUPCO buses so that they can be able to be refilled and maintained and that he is putting aside $13 million monthly. It is my considered view that this is a lot of money. The majority of people using that transport especially the ones we see in Mutare are those that travel from the city centre to the rural areas. These are people like teachers who use those buses to go to their places of work.
However, when looking at this issue, it is not just going to work after having boarded a bus for 50 cents. The issue is that they must get remuneration that is commensurate with them so that they can choose any form of transport that they would want to use and not being confined to no choice at all where one travels in a ZUPCO bus. That person loses dignity as a teacher and also runs late. The teachers dignity has been lost. They are being subjected to a lot of shoving colloquially referred to as pressure and there is a lot of stampeding. This also exposes them to thieves or pick pockets on the ZUPCO queues. I was expecting that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development would give them salaries that are able to sustain them.
The Minister must give civil servants a living wage so that they will do as they please. Even when looking at the subsidy that he is giving, I have observed that this can actually kill our economy. We are already in a comatose economy and it will be brought into a comatose position. The money that he is using as subsidy is taxpayer’s money, the same money that they take from the civil servants who are already poor and using it to subsidise others. Mr. Speaker Sir, when looking at government workers who are boarding buses for 50 cents especially teachers, despite the fact that they will have boarded a bus for 50 cents you see them with bags full of maputi and zap nax which they sell to school children. They will not be concentrating on teaching after using subsidised transport but will be busy with their small businesses. I also heard that teachers at Chitakatira are abandoning lessons because the ZUPCO bus leaves Chitakatira at 2 p.m., so teachers leave their lessons unfinished in order to catch the bus back into town to enable them to go home on time. I reiterate that civil servants should be given salaries that are in accordance with the poverty datum line. They should be given good salaries.
I will come back to the issue of toll gates. The light vehicles that we use for travelling can be used by the majority of the people and $10 as tollgate fee is a lot of money because that is not a commercial vehicle. It is not a vehicle where you can carry passengers for higher or for reward as you go to work. I was expecting that in terms of the tollgates, we ask him to reduce the tollgate fee to $4. In connection with other vehicles such as kombis, and heavy vehicles such as buses and haulage trucks, these are commercial transport vehicles and they are into commercial business. When I travel from Mutare, I pay $65 and out of the $65 using the fare of a single person the bus would pay all the tollgates. I require $30 when using a light vehicle from Mutare to
Harare. I will require $30 to go back and I also need 40 litres of fuel at $360 plus $60 for tollgates. So, to someone who is earning very little, that will not give them room to do anything with their salaries.
In terms of Cyclone Idai, I want to thank the Government for their effort but what we want mostly is that we want accountability, especially in money transactions from funds that are coming from America. Furthermore, we want to see that the restoration of the bridges and all the destroyed infrastructure be conducted before the commencement of the rain season.
As regards electricity, we are saying Zimbabwe is open for business and how can Zimbabwe be open for business when – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members order please. Hon.
Chinotimba, order please.
*HON. MAKONYA: We are having problems as regards electricity. Government is saying Zimbabwe is open for business and how can this ‘open for business’ operate when there is no electricity and we are in the dark? How can investors be expected to work in a country where there is darkness. There are no longer any night shifts because of lack of electricity. Minister, seriously consider the issue of electricity. I thank you.
+HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on this Supplementary Budget that was brought by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. First of all, as I looked into it, I noticed that the allocation that was given to the civil servants is too little. The reason is that all prices went up – food, medication, transport, fuel and honestly, the civil servants will not survive with the salaries that they earn at the moment. As I was speaking to various heads at different schools, in Bulawayo, they told
me that they no longer drive. The headmaster also uses a bus which costs 50 cents. If the bus delays, that means the headmaster will be late for school, the teacher will be late for school as well as the student. This has affected our education system because people are no longer able to use their cars.
We plead with the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to look into the issue of civil servants. They are not even able to pay school fees for their children. As I speak right now, some boarding schools have closed because they cannot afford meals for the children. There are Members of Parliament who have collected their children from schools as the schools cannot cater for their meals. It is not possible anymore and they have to relook at their budgets for next term so that they increase the fees. We plead with the Hon. Minister to look into this issue so that we can forge ahead with our education as a nation. It is very difficult especially if you look at education.
MPs who are always burying people in their constituencies.
People cannot afford medication. There are the elderly who have blood pressure and diabetes and they are affected by this situation. However, we cannot assist them with anything because we are not able to do so with the salaries that we get.
Another problem that we face is the issue of electricity. What I would want to say to the Minister is from my own point of view, I would suggest that we consider solar as a nation. We have solar power as a nation and we should utilise it fully rather than focusing on electricity, I think we should refocus to solar power and even in our hospitals, it would be better if we use solar. If there is no electricity, it would be better to use solar in these hospitals.
I also want to speak about water. Water is a big challenge in the urban areas or rural areas. In Harare, we cannot drink water from the taps. I know that there are some areas here in Harare which do not have water and it has been like that for years. I cannot even speak about the rural areas. I therefore urge the Hon. Minister to consider employing people in rural areas, especially from those communities so that they are educated on how to fix boreholes so that each and every community can have experts in these areas so that they can repair all the boreholes that are not functioning because the water challenges will not end. There are some people who walk for kilometers in order to get water yet there will be a borehole in the community which is not functional. Therefore, if people are employed in the communities, they will be able to support their families. The Government should take them for training and they should be able to repair the boreholes that are not functioning at the moment. If you look at the allocation for DDF, it is too little. The DDF is the one that drills boreholes in different communities. Our roads are in poor conditions and it is the work of DDF to repair these roads. However, with the allocation that they were given, I doubt if they are able to do this. There are places where there is production of cotton, the roads are poor, there is need to repair these roads.
The other reason why we have challenges with water is the issue of siltation. It is the DDF that has a role of dealing with this and if their allocation is not enough, we will always face challenges. Our roads will be in poor conditions and dams will be affected by siltation and we will not have water as a nation. The factories have been closed down and there is need for Government to open these factories. This will ensure that the youth have employment. Children of nowadays do not care about education, they will rather drop out of school in grade 7 and cross the border to South Africa where they will be employed and are able to buy their properties. There is need for these children to stay in our country and be educated. This is a thing that we should look into. There is need for dialogue in this nation. It is not something that should take a long time. If there was dialogue in this country, challenges would have been a thing of the past. If we dialogue, then the international community will come and work with us because they know what happens in our nation. We as Zimbabweans have a duty to fix our nation. There is need to seriously consider the issue of dialogue and our own children will come back to their home country, most of them are educated and they are waiting for that time when we decide to dialogue.
We would want them to come back with the expertise that they have. I thank you.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I will be very
brief. I see the Hon. Minister is still around, I want to direct my question to him but I realise that he seems busy, may he please come over so that I speak to him. The issue that I have is directed to the Minister Hon. Mthuli. It is important for an Hon Minister to sit down and hear our pleas. Thank you Hon. Minister, I will be very brief because the previous speakers have mentioned what I wanted to contribute. Hon. Speaker, in my own point of view, you mentioned that you will increase the salaries of civil servants by 38 percent, yet inflation is around 500 percent. There is need for the Hon. Minister to clarify on who is getting what. I would want you to go ahead and clarify on how they would survive with the little salaries that you are proposing for them.
When a father of the family goes to work, they are expected to pay rent, buy food, provide fees and bus fare for the kids, send groceries for those in rural areas as well as buy clothing. I wonder if the Hon.
Minister looks into this when he makes some of these proposals. That is why I asked him to come and sit down so that we can question some of these things. Again, if you look into it Hon. Speaker, as we are members of Parliament, we are part of the three arms of the State. There is the Judiciary, Executive and Legislature. As Members of Parliament, in many cases, even when we want to do some projects in Parliament, we are told that there is no money and there are no funds. However, when we pass the budget, we were told that Parliament should have its own separate budget. I know that they always have challenges especially when we need fuel to go back to our constituencies. I wonder if the Judiciary and the Executive are facing the same challenges. These are some of the issue that I want the Minister to look into. Most of the things have been mentioned before by the previous speakers.
Mr. Speaker Sir the Minister must also go and get educated in other nations like Kenya, South Africa and Uganda so that he comes and implement the same in Zimbabwe. The light vehicles that we use for travelling can be used by the majority of the people and $10 as tollgate fee is a lot of money because that is not a commercial vehicle. It is not a vehicle where you can carry passengers for higher or for reward as you go to work. I was expecting that in terms of the tollgates, we ask him to reduce the tollgate fee to $4. In connection with other vehicles such as kombis, and heavy vehicles such as buses and haulage trucks, these are commercial transport vehicles and they are into commercial business. When I travel from Mutare, I pay $65 and out of the $65 using the fare of a single person the bus would pay all the tollgates. I require $30 when using a light vehicle from Mutare to Harare. I will require $30 to go back and I also need 40 litres of fuel at $360 plus $60 for tollgates. So, to someone who is earning very little, that will not give them room to do anything with their salaries.
In terms of Cyclone Idai, I want to thank the Government for their effort but what we want mostly is that we want accountability, especially in money transactions from funds that are coming from America. Furthermore, we want to see that the restoration of the bridges and all the destroyed infrastructure be conducted before the commencement of the rain season.
As regards electricity, we are saying Zimbabwe is open for business and how can Zimbabwe be open for business when – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members order please. Hon.
Chinotimba, order please.
*HON. MAKONYA: We are having problems as regards electricity. Government is saying Zimbabwe is open for business and how can this ‘open for business’ operate when there is no electricity and we are in the dark? How can investors be expected to work in a country where there is darkness. There are no longer any night shifts because of lack of electricity. Minister, seriously consider the issue of electricity. I thank you.
+HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on this Supplementary Budget that was brought by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development. First of all, as I looked into it, I noticed that the allocation that was given to the civil servants is too little. The reason is that all prices went up – food, medication, transport, fuel and honestly, the civil servants will not survive with the salaries that they earn at the moment. As I was speaking to various heads at different schools, in Bulawayo, they told me that they no longer drive. The headmaster also uses a bus which costs 50 cents. If the bus delays, that means the headmaster will be late for school, the teacher will be late for school as well as the student. This has affected our education system because people are no longer able to use their cars.
We plead with the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development to look into the issue of civil servants. They are not even able to pay school fees for their children. As I speak right now, some boarding schools have closed because they cannot afford meals for the children. There are Members of Parliament who have collected their children from schools as the schools cannot cater for their meals. It is not possible anymore and they have to relook at their budgets for next term so that they increase the fees. We plead with the Hon. Minister to look into this issue so that we can forge ahead with our education as a nation. It is very difficult especially if you look at education.
MPs who are always burying people in their constituencies. People cannot afford medication. There are the elderly who have blood pressure and diabetes and they are affected by this situation. However, we cannot assist them with anything because we are not able to do so with the salaries that we get.
Another problem that we face is the issue of electricity. What I would want to say to the Minister is from my own point of view, I would suggest that we consider solar as a nation. We have solar power as a nation and we should utilise it fully rather than focusing on electricity, I think we should refocus to solar power and even in our hospitals, it would be better if we use solar. If there is no electricity, it would be better to use solar in these hospitals.
I also want to speak about water. Water is a big challenge in the urban areas or rural areas. In Harare, we cannot drink water from the taps. I know that there are some areas here in Harare which do not have water and it has been like that for years. I cannot even speak about the rural areas. I therefore urge the Hon. Minister to consider employing people in rural areas, especially from those communities so that they are educated on how to fix boreholes so that each and every community can have experts in these areas so that they can repair all the boreholes that are not functioning because the water challenges will not end. There are some people who walk for kilometers in order to get water yet there will be a borehole in the community which is not functional. Therefore, if people are employed in the communities, they will be able to support their families. The Government should take them for training and they should be able to repair the boreholes that are not functioning at the moment. If you look at the allocation for DDF, it is too little. The DDF is the one that drills boreholes in different communities. Our roads are in poor conditions and it is the work of DDF to repair these roads. However, with the allocation that they were given, I doubt if they are able to do this. There are places where there is production of cotton, the roads are poor, there is need to repair these roads.
The other reason why we have challenges with water is the issue of siltation. It is the DDF that has a role of dealing with this and if their allocation is not enough, we will always face challenges. Our roads will be in poor conditions and dams will be affected by siltation and we will not have water as a nation. The factories have been closed down and there is need for Government to open these factories. This will ensure that the youth have employment. Children of nowadays do not care about education, they will rather drop out of school in grade 7 and cross the border to South Africa where they will be employed and are able to buy their properties. There is need for these children to stay in our country and be educated. This is a thing that we should look into. There is need for dialogue in this nation. It is not something that should take a long time. If there was dialogue in this country, challenges would have been a thing of the past. If we dialogue, then the international community will come and work with us because they know what happens in our nation. We as Zimbabweans have a duty to fix our nation. There is need to seriously consider the issue of dialogue and our own children will come back to their home country, most of them are educated and they are waiting for that time when we decide to dialogue.
We would want them to come back with the expertise that they have. I thank you.
+HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I will be very
brief. I see the Hon. Minister is still around, I want to direct my question to him but I realise that he seems busy, may he please come over so that I speak to him. The issue that I have is directed to the Minister Hon. Mthuli. It is important for an Hon Minister to sit down and hear our pleas. Thank you Hon. Minister, I will be very brief because the previous speakers have mentioned what I wanted to contribute. Hon. Speaker, in my own point of view, you mentioned that you will increase the salaries of civil servants by 38 percent, yet inflation is around 500 percent. There is need for the Hon. Minister to clarify on who is getting what. I would want you to go ahead and clarify on how they would survive with the little salaries that you are proposing for them.
When a father of the family goes to work, they are expected to pay rent, buy food, provide fees and bus fare for the kids, send groceries for those in rural areas as well as buy clothing. I wonder if the Hon. Minister looks into this when he makes some of these proposals. That is why I asked him to come and sit down so that we can question some of these things. Again, if you look into it Hon. Speaker, as we are members of Parliament, we are part of the three arms of the State. There is the Judiciary, Executive and Legislature. As Members of Parliament, in many cases, even when we want to do some projects in Parliament, we are told that there is no money and there are no funds. However, when we pass the budget, we were told that Parliament should have its own separate budget. I know that they always have challenges especially when we need fuel to go back to our constituencies. I wonder if the Judiciary and the Executive are facing the same challenges. These are some of the issue that I want the Minister to look into. Most of the things have been mentioned before by the previous speakers.
Mr. Speaker Sir the Minister must also go and get educated in other nations like Kenya, South Africa and Uganda so that he comes and implement the same in Zimbabwe. The issue of people not getting their salaries derails progress. Most of the people are unhappy and they are grumbling as they work, even the teachers are not happy as they work. There is need for the teachers to be motivated by the salaries that they get. I wonder if you have given them enough salaries for them to be motivated.
Hon. Speaker, I am saddened by the issue of family planning. For family planning we are given funds by donors. I wonder why we are not able to do this programme on our own. Why should we rely on donor funding? What should we do if they decide not to contribute to our family planning? Those are some of the things that I wanted to contribute. The Hon. Minister should consider the issue of the increase in prices when he proposes some of these things. I would want to know if the Minister looked into these issues so that in Zimbabwe people are motivated.
I also want to contribute on the issue of electricity. The Minister should ensure that they pay the money they owe for electricity because I doubt if the Hon. Minister bathes with cold water or if there is load shedding in his own house. I am sure that all is well with him.
However, some of our children especially the little ones who are in ECD, have to use cold water to bath before they go to school. We cannot even manage to iron our clothes. Those are some of the things that the Hon. Minister should consider. We are facing so many challenges in Zimbabwe. There is need for the Hon. Minister to look for funds and ensure that this is looked into. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
we have been debating from 1500hrs and most of the issues that are now being debated have already been said, it is now a repetition. If we can allow the Hon. Minister to respond to the issues that have been raised in order for us to make progress.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Thank you very much
for the opportunity to listen to these very robust and very informative debates. I really appreciate all the contributions and I have listened to everything – we have taken note. Let me start with the comments regarding irrigation development. Hon. Members might recall that Government in 2018 embarked on a rehabilitation development of at least 200 hectares per district under the auspices of the national accelerated irrigation rehabilitation development programme targeted to be implemented annually over a 10 year period, that was in 2018 when we made that undertaking.
In support of the programme, my Ministry during the year 2018 availed 21 million to IDBZ who are managing the resources on behalf of Government and they are targeting the development of 7 400 hectares covering 104 irrigation schemes. Notwithstanding the availability of these resources, there was no meaningful progress in terms of completed hectrage with only USD 3 million having been utilised to December 2018 and the balance of 18 million is still with IDBZ and it is available for use under the programme. So, there is still 18 million dollars available,
With regards to Ruti and Lupane irrigation schemes mentioned by two Hon. Members, they are expected to benefit from the cash currently held in IDBZ. Furthermore, the 2019 Budget allocations under irrigation development are meant to supplement the already availed resources as well as to rehabilitate Cyclone Idai irrigation schemes.
Let me turn to the issue of support to vulnerable households under the social protection programme. A lot was said and I really appreciate that in terms of the requisite support needed to support our vulnerable citizens. I note that Hon. Chinotimba raised the issue of allocating additional resources for vulnerable households and other members did the same. Please note that we had allocated 560 million dollars to cater for 900 000 households which is approximately 4,5 million people. So, I did mention a figure of 700, I was mentioning what we had covered so far but going forward that figure is ageing closer to the 1 million that Hon. Chinotimba mentioned.
Taking into consideration this request, I have allocated an additional 100 million bringing the total to 825, 2 million. I did that allocation this morning with my staff after listening to the contributions from Hon. Chinotimba and other Members that we increase this budget –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]- Meanwhile, Government is in the process of mobilising additional resources through the consolidated appeals process which we launched yesterday, that is why I took an hour off in the afternoon to go and assist in the launching of this appeal. Already, as I indicated to this august House yesterday, yesterday alone we raised US$100 million - I repeat, US$100 million from our international development partners.
Let me come to the issue around the Audit Office. We applaud the work which is being done by this particular office. Several members applauded the work of the Audit Office and they requested that this budget be topped up so that the office can do its work. Hon. Members also raised the issue of adequately capacitating the Audit Office for it to effectively undertake its constitutional mandate. I have since allocated an additional $6 million on top of the $3 million bringing the total to $9 million. After listening to you together with my colleagues, we have made that adjustment.
On war veterans and ex-combatants, several members have raised this issue. I recall that Hon. Mutseyami and Hon. Chinotimba but a lot of members raised this issue – I just highlighted those two. They raised an issue pertaining to the welfare of war veterans and I have since taken heed of the comments and suggestions. Consequently, I have allocated an additional $15 million towards the War Veterans Administration Fund which caters for health, school fees and other welfare issues. We have increased that budget. I would like to add two things to that comment, one is that a request was also made on the issue of having import duties for war veterans. We have listened and we have taken note. We will look into this issue to see if it can be progressed but on a case by case basis.
Secondly, we will bring an amendment to the Bill that pertains to war veterans affairs that we approved in Cabinet which will try to capture a new package to the war veterans welfare.
Thirdly, I know the Chairman of the Committee on Defence and
War Veterans in this Parliament will be presenting his report from the Committee which again will try to capture issues around the welfare of the war veterans. All I have done is just to increase the budget by $15 million but going forward, a lot more will come out of this new Bill plus the report.
Let me also hasten to say that this is not a new big National Budget that we are talking about. This is your supplementary. In four months that is end of November, I will be back to present the annual budget. I just wanted to remind you of that.
On industrialisation, I see that among other Hon. Members, Hon. Sithole raised the issue of increasing the allocation for stimulation of industrial production. I have therefore provided an additional allocation of $20 million for recapitalisation of the IDC with the anticipation to avail additional resources in the 2020 National Budget. An additional $40 million will also be allocated towards a venture capital fund. I presented the proposal in the National Budget in November 2018, so we are responding to industrialisation in this way – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. M. KHUMALO):
Order Hon. Members, please can you listen. The Minister was listening to you. Can you also listen to him?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir and Hon. Members, I want to add something to supporting industry. I need to remind Hon. Members that there are several rebates in the tax system that are targeted at supporting industry and production. I would like to take you through them. There is a rebate on the following, imported capital equipment for industry, textiles and clothing manufacturers, duty on imports used by the dairy and processing industry, electoral manufacturers, duty on imports used by the packaging, printing and publishing industry, bottling equipment for sugar, imported milk, for luggage wear, furniture manufacturers, raw wine manufacturers, wheat flour, imports into Special Economic Zones, imports for use of approved projects under the national project status initiative.
Let me highlight those industries in the manufacturing sector who have benefited, these are Modzone Textiles....
An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the Hon.
Member speaking.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Maroon Beverages, Dendairy, Dairiboard, Hunyani and Trade Kings. These are examples of the companies that benefited from tax rebates or suspension of duties and we can cite with precision. They are creating jobs, improving their earnings, improving their viability and they have improved their profits. The same applies to the mining sector. We have done a lot for them but you asked for industry, so I will skip that.
There is something to be said when it comes to the tourism industry so that I get to the right page. We suspended duty on buses for tour operators. A total of 19 buses have been imported under this facility which was introduced on 1 January 2019. There is also a rebate on duty on goods for use by tourism – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order!
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: And again there has been a benefit here. There is also a suspension of duty on motor vehicles imported by Safari Operators. The companies that have benefited here are Matetsi
Safari, Safari Operators in Victoria Falls and Green Investments in Mana Pools. Matetsi Safari in Victoria Falls was saved from liquidation due to this suspension of duty. We are doing a lot to support industry and this should be supported by Members of Parliament. I can go on and on. What we are doing now with my staff is trying to quantify the job creation impact of these fiscal rebates and measures but we have got the data on who has benefited and who has not. We are very clear that this supports production in addition to what we have done regarding IDC capitalisation and the capitalisation of the national venture fund.
Let me turn to cloud seeding which was raised by several Hon. Members in light of the dry spell experience in previous agricultural seasons – I propose to provide an additional $2.5 million towards cloud seeding.
In support for foreign missions, we are aware of the challenges that they face in terms of converting the salaries from RTGS or Zimbabwe dollars into US$. The condition of the missions themselves in terms of the buildings, paying service providers and paying local staff in their missions; I am told the embassies in UK, USA, China, Germany, France and then in the region, I know the condition. We are slowly working our way and making sure we are up-to-date with the salaries of Ambassadors and staff including their vehicles by the way.
We know the Ambassadors who do not have – I will not cite this one. It really made me very sad to see an Ambassador who was walking because they had no vehicle. When we arrived, he had to hire a vehicle and so forth. We are making sure that we deal with the issue of vehicles in addition to renovating the buildings and facilities. We are working on this and we have allocated a monthly running allocation in terms of foreign currency availability. We are trying to deal with this.
On women and youth, I wish to emphasise to Hon. Members that my Ministry remains committed to gender equity issues meant to reduce gender disparity. In this regard, I have taken note of the comments from
Hon. Members and proposed an additional $14 million to the Zimbabwe Women Micro-finance Bank. We worked and decided on this issue this morning after listening to the contributions from the Hon. Members yesterday. I further propose an additional $15 million to capitalise the Youth Empowerment Bank. So, we have increased the shareholding or rather the capital base for those two institutions.
Let me turn to the water and sanitation in urban areas issue. I think it is Hon. Chombo who raised the need to address water infrastructure challenges currently faced by urban local authorities. You are not the only one, there are few other Hon. Members who raised this issue. I therefore propose to put an additional $20 million to support water and sanitation projects as the sector is also currently benefiting from development partners support.
Let me come to the issue regarding the construction of vending marts. Hon. Members, I also propose an allocation of $20 million towards the construction of vending space for municipal vendors who were removed from streets by urban local authorities. It is an additional $20 million for this facility.
Coming to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), Hon. Mliswa and a lot of other members raised the issue of the allocation towards the CDF. I therefore propose an additional allocation of $10 million towards the CDF.
Turning to Agribank, I propose an additional $65 million to increase the capacity of Agribank to support agriculture. So, Agribank will receive an addition in terms of recapitalisation of $65 million from what the Members proposed. Also, there was a proposal to involve additional banks beyond Agribank in command agriculture. We are looking into that already. We are speaking to some of the banks and we will announce which banks will join the programme so they can monitor and manage some of the resources that are going towards the beneficiaries of command agriculture.
Let me turn to the Council of Chiefs, Hon. Members, I have taken note of the suggestions to provide additional resources to the Chiefs’ Council, I therefore propose an additional budget of $5 million towards the Council of Chiefs’ needs.
Hon. Members also raised the issues around independent commissions that the budgets for these commissions be increased as well. So, for the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission, I propose an additional $1,5 million in addition to what we have already put in the supplementary budget. These are top ups that we worked on this morning in response to your debates. On the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission, an additional $5 million beyond what is in the supplementary. For National Prosecuting Authority, an additional $8,9 million. For the Zimbabwe Gender Commission, an additional $1,5 million and the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission, an additional $1,5 million. These are some of the responses in terms of budgets that we have been able to accommodate Mr. Speaker Sir, in line with the requests from members.
Let me turn to some of the issues raised by the Chair of the Budget, Finance and Economic Development Committee, Hon. Mhona on behalf of the Committee. He raised the issue of the 100 000 commercial tyres which has been ring-fenced and we will allow the importation of that and the duty is set at 15% for the next 12 months.
The question is why we did that.
Initially, we are trying to give an opportunity to local manufacturers of these tyres to get up to speed, upgrade their capacity but in the meantime, we know that they cannot meet the demand so we are allowing the importation. Looking forward, we are likely to continue with this provision but we would rather protect the local manufacturer in terms of production.
The issue around reducing Custom Duty on raw materials on the manufacture of motor vehicles, Mr. Speaker the proposal to levy an
Excise Duty on fuel, the committee recommends a reduction of Excise Duty on fuel and so forth but let me reflect on that. No, let me deal with it. The initial levy on petrol and diesel was actually 78% and 60% respectively. Now we are proposing 45% and 40% in respect of petrol and diesel, so it is lower. We have almost halved it so it is lower.
Let me come to the issue of vehicle filters because I dealt with fuel and I felt you were more interested with that. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is a company in Mutare that manufactures vehicle filters and it is already struggling. Therefore, the policy by Government is to support such companies. So, you can see it is targeted. We would like this company to produce and we are trying to protect it – [HON. MEMBERS: Ndeyani?] – It is owned by a Zimbabwean who is employing Zimbabweans and we need to support this company – [HON. MEMBERS: Ndeyani;
Ndeyani?] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members please.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: There was also an issue around the threshold where again Hon. Mhona mentioned that the Committee recommends a further upward review of the tax free threshold to $1 000 given the need to stimulate the demand. You know we are in August now and left with another four months. We are coming back to the House with the normal annual budget and of course we are keeping our eye on what constitutes a fair level for a tax threshold. So, we have taken note, we have listened but for now, we think we should really stay with the $700.
Also, how we got to it when we moved from $350 to $700, we did a survey with industry and the National Employment Councils (NECS) and we came to the conclusion that $700 seems to be the reasonable level to set it but we stand ready to reveal upwards when we come back in four months. It was informed by a survey and we are ready to share details of that survey.
The issue of tax deductibility of royalties for mining; I thank you for the commendations. We also felt that this was just too much headache for ZIMRA and us and there was need to make sure that it is tax deductable in line with best practices and the region. We have done that and that is commendable.
The Committee raised the issue of the financing gap Mr. Speaker Sir, whether we are going to finance it or not. We have done our research and strategy, we will be able to cover the gap without difficulty. I can assure the Hon. Members that we will stay within our target of 4% at GDP ratio in terms of the budget deficit. That will not be a problem at
all.
Let me come to the issue on the inflation publication. I think some of the Hon. Members got the impression that I said no inflation figures should be published. That is not correct, there are two key inflation figures that we publish and then we do derivatives of that. The year on year inflation, 2018 to 2019, what is the inflationary change? Then there is a running of month to month, which is one month to the next. What I announced was that we are continuing with year to year inflation but we will seize to publish the year on year inflation, why?
First of all, we did this in 2009 when we moved from the
Zimbabwean dollar to the multicurrency regime because we realised that when we do year on year, we are not comparing like with like, it is two different currency regimes. Basically, we have two indices, let us take what happened now; before 20 February, 2019, your CPI index is a US$ by default. Your post February 2019 index is a Zimbabwean dollar index. So, if you are going to compare them, you must convert them to the same currency bases, otherwise you are not comparing like with like.
So, you have to do what you call index splicing – I used to teach Statistics Mr. Speaker Sir, it is called index splicing, you graft them together.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if you are going to do that, then you are going to have awkward results which are that; if you take the price of Mazoe drink last year, this time, two litres it was US$3. The price of the same Mazoe today, it is about $24. Now, ZW$24 at the current interbank rate is 24 divided by 8, which is US$3. So, it was US$3 last year and it is the same today. So, if we do year on year inflation, it will be zero percent and you will be unhappy – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – so, that is why it is important to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can you learn
to listen please.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Then fail to convey what you would
like to convey – but if we use the month to month, it will still tell you that we have an inflation challenge, why? The month to month inflation for last year, this time last year was averaging 6.2%. The month to month inflation for the same period this year Mr. Speaker Sir, doubles that. So, we know that inflation has gone up. To me, it conveys the message. If we do year on year, we get thoroughly confused.
Hon. Members were asking if this surplus was real or not. There was also something raised about; it is only a surplus because you are using cash budgeting, if you use accrual accounting, there is no surplus. Let me try to address that Mr. Speaker Sir. First of all, it is true that the surplus is ZW$800 million. At the current interbank rate, that is US$100 million. It is real and I repeat it. What are we using it for? We began to use the surplus for – first of all, we are allocating it into the supplementary budget; that is why we are projecting a deficit at year end because we are going to spend it and end up in deficit. It is very clear.
What are the key shocks? It is your maize importation, the increase in Parliamentary budgets and everywhere that we have suggested this supplementary budget. That is going to eat away the surplus, power importation and so on. You can be sure that by year end, it will dwindle. So, do not worry that we have it now, we should probably celebrate because we have something to spend going forward –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, order please. Hon. Member there, please can you use your notebook to take notes there, we are not enjoying your comments please, otherwise I will chase you out.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Hon. Speaker Sir, Hon. Members, a point was raised regarding our use of cash accounting as opposed to accrual accounting. Let me hasten to say that, whenever you are doing reforms, you should always use the cash accounting approach and not accrual accounting. That is what happened when Hon. Minister Biti came in, in 2009. He used cash accounting; that was correct. I am using cash accounting; that is correct, why? Because that is what you do when you are going through a reform programme.
Let me come to accrual accounting, we are aware that going forward, we have to move towards accrual accounting but it is a process. I want to show Hon. Members here a document that we have prepared in terms of strategy towards that move and is entitled; ‘Migration to Accrual Based International Accounting for the Public Sector’ and this is 2018 to 2025. It is a public document and I am happy to share with you and show you that we are serious about this. Mr. Speaker Sir, it will also involve – that we should do an asset valuation of Government assets. Once we do accrual accounting, the Government must have a balance sheet, the value of its asset. That is how you do it Mr. Speaker Sir. So, we are very clear, we have a strategy and a process; we will come back in the fullness of time and report on our progress towards accrual accounting but for now, it is cash accounting; that is what works whenever you are implementing reforms.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I am just double checking that I have covered all the items. I think we covered everything. On the duty on solar, Mr. Speaker Sir, we have actually removed duties on everything that is in the solar package if you are importing a solar package. From the panels, the equipment as well as the duties on that, we have removed that.
Vote 2 which is the Parliament of Zimbabwe. On this one, I want to break it down. It is not just about the Vote, it is about welfare. Let me start with motor vehicles. This issue has dragged on for too long. I want to be open with you. Colleagues this process has too many hands in the pie. Vanhu varikupindira arguing for this – the dealers, this Committee, that person and so forth. This is the truth. That is what has gone on. It has also dragged the issue a little bit, but where are we now. We have made progress. The progress is like this; the deposit has been approved in terms of the 20% deposit. I am told by my officials that everything should be concluded by Friday this week. So please, make sure that you check with the garages.
Now, I want to address an issue which was raised by some Hon. Members and Hon. Mliswa that the value has shifted from $50 000 down to $25 000. No, the figure that you saw there, what we have done is - we put a structure, Mr. Speaker Sir. Now, I must address you as I was addressing them. My apologies, they are so pushy these people.
So, we put in a structure for 18 months in terms of the funding on the Treasury side. So the budget you see is just for the 12 months to year end. Next year there will be another portion to complete the full exposure in Zimbabwe dollars which translates to the full US$50 000. So you can get your US$50 000 car, no problem. That is what is going on. We just split the budget across the two.
Let me come to the issue – there are other things. There is the
Constituency Development Fund and there is your sitting allowance. We are still in discussions. I think you will be pleased with where we will end up in terms of the increase. We are going to increase it.
You got your once off allowance. Mr. Speaker Sir, we did the allowance. Why did we not do it before when we did the collar for civil servants? It is because you are deemed to rank above deputy directors. So remember what we were doing, we were dealing with those who were deputy directors and below, you are above that. That is why you were excluded in the collar adjustment before, but on the cushioning allowance you were included.
I know that there is also the issue of constituency visits. Again, we are reviewing those budgets. There are also issues around the support for research and so forth. I think for some of this, it is worth also yourselves engaging the staff within Parliament. They know a lot about what we have discussed in terms of your package. So, there is a lot that we will do. We have been engaging with the Chief Whips on both sides and the Leader of the House. We will make sure that your welfare is taken care of – [HON. MEMBERS: What about the issue of salaries.?]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, please.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Let me respond through you Mr.
Speaker Sir. We are looking into this issue of the salaries, the sitting allowances and constituency visit allowance. We are reviewing the budget upward. I have had conversations with the Chief Whips, the Speaker and the Standing Rules and Orders Committee – and the CDF too, we are looking into reviewing that budget. I think they will be happy with the adjustments when we get there.
There is an issue that was raised around debt, that there is not enough information on debt and that I should come to this House and make a full presentation on the debt position. Hon. Speaker Sir, I want to assure Hon. Members and yourself that I will come before this House to present a report on the debt situation, but in this Budget Statement on page 13– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndebele order please. I
will fire you there. – [Laughter.]-
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Salaries of civil servants - this was raised by so many Hon. Members, Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me just repeat what we have done so far since the beginning of the year. We did the $63 million cushioning allowance for the first three months, then we did the $400 million from 1st April to year end and we did a breakdown in terms of levels all the way down to the lowest paid person, the office orderly. I can share that detail with you. It was a cascading scale where the deputy directors had a lower increase as a percentage compared to the office orderlies who had the highest percentage of 29%. So, the sliding scale, I can give the Hon. Members band by band.
We move on from there. Last month we did a cushioning allowance of $143 million which was a once off payment which again was well received by civil servants. I can give you a breakdown. I cannot give you right away. I can go back and work it out. We are still negotiating collar. So, in the next few weeks we will conclude on our deliberations over collar and that again will be announced. I am sure it will be a happy ending for the civil servants.
In November, Mr. Speaker Sir and Hon. Members, we are going to pay the usual bonus to civil servants. As you know, this will go a long way to ameliorating their plight and their buying capacity. So, we are doing a lot for civil servants and that collar adjustment that we are proposing will deal with the salary issue.
Also a suggestion was made – I am going back to the micro issues that maybe we should go back to the United States dollar. Bad idea. That is how we moved away from it. It is a bad idea because whenever you have the US$ or foreign currency, it means that you have no governor for the central bank. The governor of the central bank is the governor in the country from which you are borrowing that currency. If it is US, then the chairman of the Federal Reserve is your governor, I am dramatising it. What it means is you have no monetary policy and that is very dangerous. You cannot adjust to shocks, you cannot do anything, you cannot print, you cannot dribble the system and you abandon the interest rate policy. What we have done now is to restore full monetary policy. We can have interest rates, we will announce the monetary policy committee, we have introduced our own currency and it is amazing. You cannot develop your country without a domestic
currency. I urge Members to have confidence in themselves. It is very important. Zambians have confidence in themselves. That is why they have the Kwacha. South Africans have a Rand because they have confidence in themselves. They know they can manage it, why do we not have confidence in ourselves. We should have confidence and we will be able to manage and stabilise.
Hon. Members should urge us to say, never again should you allow our dear Zimbabwe dollar to be impacted by your bad policies and we stay on the straight and narrow. That should be the issue. Not to go back to US dollar – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Please, let us emphasise policies that will strengthen the Zimbabwe dollar and protect its value rather than abandon it and adopt something else – [HON. MEMBERS: What about money changers? Why are we seeing bond notes in the streets?] – Let me come to the energy sector.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we are concluding a facility, an arrangement for importing power from ESKOM in South Africa. We are doing exactly what the Hon. Members are suggesting. Already, we have agreed to pay US$890 a week towards extinguishing the liability with ESKOM as well as to acquire additional power. We are putting in place a guarantee of US$15 million to make sure the whole thing works.
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, I love you very much. I think you and I are getting a bit tired and I was hoping I do not know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
Hon. Member, sit down.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Mr. Speaker Sir, we are going to proceed as well to put in a similar facility for importation of power from Mozambique so that we can continue to be supported by our good neighbours in this regard. Of course, as we remove duties on solar and I must say yesterday, in Cabinet we approved a national renewable energy policy for Zimbabwe. It is now a public document which will seek to kick start renewable energy sector in Zimbabwe covering solar energy, mini-hydro, geothermal energy, wind energy and biomass and Hon.
Members could read and look into. I have listened to the suggestions from Hon. Nduna on various areas and we have taken note. We will make sure we incorporate this. Some of them in a sense need a little bit of reflection and they may be reflected in the next budget but we have taken note of all of these.
There was the issue about duty on equipment used by war veterans and infrastructure development. The issue about the maintenance reserve account and that we should accelerate disbursements. I will make sure the Minister of Transport is cajoled to move faster.
There are very comprehensive suggestions around the aviation industry, which seem to be very helpful and I think that while we may not accommodate these now, they will go into our thinking as we think of the next budget. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, may you raise
your voice?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you. Let me shout. There is the issue of the health sector budget, again we have listened but we have done a bit on the health sector budget. We have been very targeted in terms of infrastructure, in terms of drug acquisition. Drug penetration has improved up from, 40% to 60%. We have done a lot and we are doing a lot. In the budget, I did cite the hospitals where we have finished the renovations as promised in January when I presented the last budget where they look at Mbuya Nehanda, Mpilo Hospital and UBH. We have done a lot and Hon. Karenyi raised the health issue – [HON. KARENYI: Because tikagadzira kuzvipatara, the Hon. Vice President vanodzoka vorapirwa paParirenyatwa.] – Understood.
The issue of political parties funding – I think it was raised before, you are not just raising it now. Of course, I am processing this and it is underway. It will be released because that is due to the political parties.
It will definitely be released. A lot was proffered and commented on. We have taken note and we appreciate. On investment of rail, if you recall that there are transactions being considered...
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker Sir, can you ask the Minister to sit down a little bit and ask all Members to stand up and jump because too many of them are sleeping.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think he is finishing. Hon.
Minister, can you proceed.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: On national railways and railways
transportation, I have listened to this and it is a valid point but our strategy in terms of NRZ, Mr. Speaker Sir, was to find a private partner so that it becomes a PPP. That is what the Minister of Transport has issued out in terms of request for proposals for PPP investors. We have to wait for that process to be completed before Government can commit more resources itself. If you remember, there was the diaspora infrastructure group which had offered to be a PPP partner before and had been given an extension to perform among others who have also been invited. So we wait to hear about progress on this matter before we commit as Government. Then on DDF, I have listened very carefully and the request for an increase on the budget is accepted. I have agreed that the budget be increased by another $60 million and take it to a $100 million. On this note, let me sit down and wait for other requests for clarifications.
HON. CHIKWINYA: May I take this opportunity to thank the Hon Minister for the response. My point of clarification is that he did not respond to the issues around devolution which were raised by Hon. Members in terms of actualisation of the devolution process. I remember an Hon. Member said there are elected members of the provincial councils who have not as yet been sworn because of various fundamentals which have not been put in place. So, how much money has been budgeted to allow for the actualization of the swearing in and beginning of Provincial councils work? As we speak, money meant for devolution is going direct to local authorities yet it is supposed to sit on the provincial council rather than directly on local authorities. That is point number one. Point number two, we do not want to be attracted to debating issues around the welfare of senior civil servants. He knows what I am talking about when I say senior civil servants. Under Vote 2, he did not come out clear and my biggest problem with the Hon. Minister is that he has made four promises before and non of them have been actualised. Can the Minister come out clear on this group of senior civil servants, what is going to happen to their salaries, because the issue of referring us to staff is un-procedural. Staff does not deal with policy. The Minister referred us to the Clerk of Parliament. The Clerk of Parliament does not interact with Members of Parliament on a matter of policy. MPs interact with the Minister on matters of policy. So, can the Minister come out clearly on what is going to happen with salaries, allowances and the CDF? I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: I just have two points that I want to seek clarification from the Hon. Minister. He referred to me when he spoke of royalties and said he wanted to be in sinc with ZIMRA and other cooperating partners. Has he reverted back to the 1% on artisanal and small scale miners and 3% on the large scale miners? Secondly, the 15% of our population, whether he has removed the duty completely on accessories, ancillaries, equipment that they use in their day to day upkeep for they are differently abled? These are the two issues. Has he removed the duty completely for their equipment importation including those visually impaired, the Braille they can utilise and sunscreen for albinos . I am alive to mudara ten in Chegutu West who has no legs and want to know if he can get wheel chairs duty free. I did not hear what he said . If he can elaborate and if he can please remove the duty, please Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. CHOMBO: There was one issue that the Hon Minister did
not address on year to year inflation rebasing. There is going to be information vacuum if he is going to publish the statistics in February 2020. Is there any way he is going to address that?
HON. MADZIMURE: I just want first to buttress what Hon.
Chombo said. The issue of rebasing, leaving the inflation to speculation is the most dangerous thing and it is not good. My point of clarity is on the budget formulation process where MPs must contribute meaningfully. Is the Minister going to consider coming to Parliament with a paper of his intentions before the actual allocation of resources is made so that Parliament contributes towards what they think the people they represent really want so that we have got a budget that is targeted at specific projects at constituency level?
HON. MUSABAYANA: My point of clarity is on the issue of
duty on fertlisers. Like I said earlier that there is a serious challenge with fertliser shortages and the prices are not affordable so we need a waiver or suspension of duty of fertilizers. Someone spoke about capacitating the locals like Sable Chemicals, they use sulphuric acid which is very expensive to import. They need more than $30 million per annum but they normally get around US$3000 which is not enough and always have shortages. I also raised the issue of duty on roller meal, maize and wheat because there is a serious shortage of wheat in the country but there is duty on flour. So, we are saying it is better for now until when we are capacitated and have enough stocks in terms of GMB so that we can produce. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: May we be guided here.
Points of clarity – we need to be specific to the point. We do not need to be debating again. So may you please come to the point.
HON. HAMAUSWA: My point of clarity centres on the issue of pensioners. The Hon. Minister did not address issues raised by Hon.
Members concerning the plight of pensioners. The other issue is that the
Hon. Minister’s response on water infrastructure was not convincing because we are currently facing a disaster in terms of water and sanitation. So, we would want to know from the Hon. Minister what is really going to happen to urban areas. We saw dams for the rural areas but nothing was said about Kunzwi Dam for example to cover Harare.
Those are some of the issues that we need clarity on. The last one is on SMEs. The Hon. Minister talked about building structures for vendors who were removed from urban areas but in the whole budget, there is no mentioning of SMEs, which I think is not really good because the economy has largely informalised so there is no direct mentioning of how the SMEs are going to be assisted.
HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. To the
Minister, I know that a lot of MPs raised the issue about the fallacy of where you said you have made surplus. I did not hear you responding to the challenges to your surplus where you were saying you made surplus in the year whereas people were saying, with all these debts, how did you make a surplus. If you answered that, okay, maybe I did not hear.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Madam Speaker Ma’am, again let me
thank Hon. Members for those additional questions and requests for further clarification. Let me start with the request for clarification from Hon. Chikwinya on the provincial councils. He said that the budget should sit at that level before they go to the rural district. That is not correct. On processes like this, 25% of the budget goes directly to the provincial council and 75% goes directly to the Rural District Councils. He is right that the legislation regarding the provincial council issues needs to be concluded. It is a matter that is in hand and the process is under way but an allocation has been made already. That allocation at provincial councils’ level is about $114.4 million and the remainder out of the $703 million is then allocated at rural district level. The allocation has been made but the process of disbursing and so forth at that provincial level is being concluded parallel with the conclusion of the legislative process around it.
Then on the allocations in terms of allowances to the
Parliamentarians as I said, we are still debating the actual in terms of the benefits and we will conclude, I can tell you by early tomorrow morning and I think the Members will be happy with that conclusion because we have every intention to review the allowances upwards.
Then Hon. Nduna raised the issue about duties in terms of the disabled. We have removed those duties. In fact, I removed those duties in November last year. It was just silent in the Supplementary but they are already removed. Then on the 2% royalty for gold producers, this needs some reflection. Madam Speaker Ma’am, we have actually set up a US$100 million facility to capacitate Fidelity to buy gold across the country but also to capacitate the gold producers. It is a loan and how do we service that loan. So part of our thinking around raising the royalty was to be able to service that loan. So, it needs some reflection if we were to drop it back to 1%, then we need to reflect on how we can then service that loan which will benefit the gold miners in the first place.
On the issue of inflation rebasing, we dealt with this one. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, I am
sure that we all are of the view of wanting to go home, so may you kindly cooperate so that at least we hear the points of clarity that the Minister is going to respond to.
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
Then on the issue of the budgetary process, this is a Supplementary
Budget. The main budget was approved in January and being a Supplementary Budget, the consultation process was done at the annual budget stage and in another four months, we will be engaging in consultations for the annual budget for 2020. This is only a supplementary. So, I think that from the vibrancy of the debate in this House, with the Members of Parliament, we have had a robust debate and it feels that we have really gone into the issues and sunk our teeth into them. This has been fantastic and therefore the need for further consultation is not necessary. We have done enough in this House and I appreciate the contribution from the Members.
The duty on fertiliser inputs, this duty has been removed. It was removed in January. So, I confirm that this duty was removed so that the inputs for the manufacture of fertiliser locally are duty free and we will enable that to happen. The issue for the sector is not duties but it has been the foreign currency for importing those inputs in the first place and the duties have been removed nonetheless.
Then request for the removal of duties on maize, wheat and so forth, this will reflect on this. All these are good suggestions but of course, we are importing a lot of maize and we said only GMB can import and of course that maize from GMB is duty free because it is the Government importing. So, it cannot charge itself tax in that regard but we reflect on all these suggestions and try to incorporate them as we go forward.
Then we are concerned with the plight of the pensioners and indeed when we do the reviews for civil servants, we will also review the pensioners’ emoluments upwards.
On urban infrastructure, again, some of this urban infrastructure is not really dealt with at Central Government level but rather at local authority level but we are working with the provincial authority in Harare to deal particularly with Kunzvi Dam. In fact, we have an idea about putting a financing mechanism under a public private partnership to deal with these dams that will supply Harare and the other metropolis around it with water.
On SMEs that perhaps I did not dwell enough on, there is quite a bit on SMEs in the Supplementary Budget but also, in the main budget in January that was supplementing in the first place. If you read those two together, January and now, there is a lot that has been said and incentive as well for SMEs that have been put in place. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My question is on employment costs. The Blue Book already has figures.
There are amounts for Parliament and amounts for war veterans, amounts for police and so on. As the Minister now is saying, we are still discussing yet we already have figures, what will we be approving?
Secondly, on unallocated reserves, I feel that there are a lot of unallocated reserves – why can they not go to other Ministries and there is also even the issue of Air Zimbabwe to say there is debt reconstruction. Why can it not go there? Those are my two points of clarification.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister is saying
that he does not understand that at all. So, may you kindly repeat? You talked about employment cost, what about them? Be specific.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. In terms of employment costs, if you take for instance the police, in the
Blue Book, there is an increment by 33.8 %. For war veterans, it is 32.7%. Those are just examples. The Minister said we are still discussing yet it is already in the Blue Book so what will we be approving if we are going to approve those figures then at the end of the day they are going to change again.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The second point of clarity?
HON. S. BANDA: The second point of clarity Madam Speaker is
unallocated reserves in the Ministry of Finance, I feel they are a big chunk a lot them. Why can they not be allocated to the ministries themselves and even let us say to Air Zimbabwe which has got a huge legacy debt. Why can some of the funds not go there?
HON. PROF. M. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker, I thank
the Hon. Member for that question. In terms of the unallocated reserves, basically these budgetary adjustments that I have just announced prior to this, those extra monies are coming from the unallocated reserves, so I am already allocating the unallocated reserves. Secondly, what is also in the unallocated reserves is a portion that we have set aside to meet the requirements for the collar adjustments for civil servants. Regarding the issue of what we are still discussing, it is true we need to fine tune certain things between now and 1100 hours tomorrow morning and we are going to do that and we will come back, I think, with a pleasant and pleasurable result in terms of those discussions. I am receiving some of the information from the Chief Whips, one of the members is feeding us with information and our officials are processing. We will do that overnight and tomorrow we will conclude and I think we will have pleasant a result. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill ordered to be brought in by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
FIRST READING
FINANCE (NO.2) BILL [H. B. 13, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE) presented the Finance
Bill (No. 2) Bill [H. B. 13, 2019].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.ZIYAMBI), the House
adjourned at Twenty One minutes to Eleven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th August, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA) in the Chair)
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS
NUMBER 51, 62 (2), 135, 136 AND 139
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I seek leave of the House to move that the provisions of Standing Orders Nos. 51, 62 (2), 135, 136 and 139 regarding the automatic adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. on sitting days other than a Friday and at Twenty-Five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a
Friday, private Members’ motions taking precedence on Wednesdays after Question Time and that Question Time shall be on Wednesday, the referral of Bills to Portfolio Committees, procedures in connection with the Parliamentary Legal Committee and Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended for today and for the remaining series of sittings in respect of the following:
- Business relating to the Budget and the Committee of Supply,
- The Finance Bill,
- The Appropriation Bill (2019) and 4) The Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NUMBER 51, 62 (2), 135,
136 AND 139
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I move that the provisions of Standing Orders Number, 51, 62 (2), 135,
136 and 139 regarding the automatic adjournment of the House at Five
Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. on sitting days other than a Friday and at Twenty-Five Minutes past One o’clock p.m. on a Friday, private
Members’ motions taking precedence on Wednesdays after Question
Time, and that Question Time shall be on Wednesday, the referral of
Bills to Portfolio Committees, procedures in connection with the Parliamentary Legal Committee and Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended for today and for the remaining series of sittings in respect of the following:-
- Business relating to the Budget and the Committee of Supply,
- The Finance Bill,
- The Appropriation Bill (2019) and 4) The Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I rise on a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to refer you to Order of the Day, No 11 which speaks to resumption on the consideration of the adverse report by the
Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3, 2019]. On that order, Hon. Mataranyika seconded by Hon. Chinotimba moved that the adverse report be withdrawn. My point of order is that I am failing to locate the Standing Rule which allows an adverse report to be withdrawn from Parliament before debate. Can I be guided accordingly as to which order was used for these Hon. Members to be able to withdraw an adverse report which I thought was supposed to be debated first and a resolution made for it to be referred back to the PLC. I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have heard the point of order. I will study the matter then make a ruling tomorrow – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjection.] – Order in the House.
HON. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and thank you
for restoring electricity. I am standing on a point of privilege which emanates from Order No. 3 on the Order Paper and I quote, ‘Hon. Chinotimba raised a point of privilege regarding boycotting of day sitting in Parliament by all Members of the MDC-A Party.” First and foremost Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Chinotimba is not the MDC-A Chief Whip. Secondly, he is neither the Leader of the House for the opposition. A resolution was made by the Speaker which is stated here.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we all know that on the 1st of August, six innocent civilians were gunned down in cold blood and as the MDC, we attended a church service where we were remembering these gallant soldiers that were killed innocently. Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir, we were in Highfield attending a church service and when we came here, I am sure all of you know that we have been fasting as the MDC-A in respect of these six innocent victims. So when one fasts, you have a right to congregate, pray and break the fasting. There is no rule in this
Parliament that states that when you are late, you are barred from this House. So what we want to understand, is why did you bar us? We came here quite late, we went to the Government Caucus when we broke our fast and we came down here but we found police officers who told us that the Speaker, Hon. Jacob Mudenda gave a directive that we should not come in here. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Jacob Mudenda raised a pertinent issue that the main opposition party in this Parliament is
barred. I want you to underline the word main opposition. Our role is to oppose any issues that violate the rights of the people of Zimbabwe – be it social, economic, political, cultural and so on.
To add salt to injury, on this same Order Paper, you barred us all but Hon. Mutseyami has appeared on the Order Paper. What are you telling us? Mr. Speaker, there is no rule that says as the ruling party you have to control how we operate as the main opposition. So, where is your source of law that gave rise for you to bar us to come to this House? We were only 20 minutes late and we had the right to remember our comrades. Some ZANU PF Members came, they were late and they came through but we could not. You went further Mr. Speaker Sir, and instructed the ZRP to remove us from the Parliament. Where is that source of law? You are removing us for committing what crime? So Mr. Speaker Sir, as the main opposition, we need you to give us a ruling now.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Khumalo
and I do understand that you have underlined the main opposition.
Unfortunately Honourable, Mr. Speaker is the one who gave a ruling on Friday and he was actually in the Chair. Unfortunately, I cannot overrule the decision that was made by Mr. Speaker but I have taken note of your point of order, if it is a point of privilege.
HON. SIKHALA: On a point of clarity Mr. Speaker. The clarity that I am seeking from the Chair is whether the Chair understands how to distinguish a Chair as a persona and a Chair on his official role and duty. The ruling that was made was not made by Jacob Mudenda the person, but was made by the Hon. Speaker. The decision by Hon. Mudenda was not made by Hon. Mudenda the person but was made by Hon. Mudenda the Chair and the Speaker of the House.
So Mr. Speaker Sir, you must be able to distinguish decisions that are made on official capacity and on individual capacity. The decision as per the ruling of the Speaker, as mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition was made by the Speaker as the Chair. So, there is nowhere you can recuse yourself from giving determination over the ruling that was made by the Chair in your official capacity. So, that is a point of clarity that I wanted to get from you Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Sikhala.
I have heard you loud and clear but my decision is still standing, that there is no way I can come on this Chair and then undo the decision that was made by the Speaker on that particular day unfortunately. I have ruled; no more points of privilege.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have made a ruling on that one.
HON. HAMAUSWA: It is a national crisis and it is an issue of national interest that has to do with maize. We heard in this House that there was a Statutory Instrument barring people to sell maize. Given this SI 145, we are getting reports that Grain Marketing Board is currently selling maize to Delta and other companies that manufacture stock feeds. My point of privilege is, if the wisdom of the Hon. Minister in coming up with SI 145 was based on the shortage of maize, why are we then allowing GMB to sell maize to make stock feeds instead of instructing those companies to import maize using their own resources because the priority was given to maize since it is a staple food? It is a staple food of this nation; why we are allowing those companies to buy maize from GMB? So, we see there is injustice on what is happening in this country. Mr. Speaker Sir, my request is that the responsible Minister should look into the issues of GMB whether this is true or not but from what we gathered, it is very true.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Member
for raising that point of privilege. We will make sure that the point of privilege is actually delivered to the responsible Minister such that he can actually look into the issue that you have raised.
HON. PHULU: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is in order for the business to be suspended. However, the contents of some of the debates that Hon. Members are debating on is irrelevant because today we were supposed to be discussing the finances of the country. I think maybe if the Minister may adjust and actually remove the MOPO Bill so that we proceed with the business of the House in a smooth fashion. Let us deal with the budget and the finance then we can deal with serious questions that have been posed regarding how the adverse certificate was withdrawn. If we throw that into the mix, I think we will waste a lot of time because I think we have got a lot of business to cover before Friday. That is my proposal. I think that if the Minister could accept those suggestions, we will move forward in a rather quick manner. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. While I appreciate what he is saying, Tuesday is
Government business day. So, if it is Government business day – [AN
HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, Government - the Executive determines the order of the business that they want to present. If it is a Wednesday, we do not dictate what the Hon. Members do on Wednesdays. – [AN HON. MEMBER: He comes
and dictate here..] – Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member is lost. On
Tuesday we deal with Government business in the House and I never spoke about controlling the House. So, the Hon. Member is totally lost in what he is saying. I never said the Executive controls, I said the Executive business is done on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Wednesdays is for private members business; we cannot interfere with that. While I appreciate, we will proceed with the Finance Bill until you rule on the Maintenance of Peace Bill. I do not see any problems in us proceeding with my leave.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, first of all, it is important for Hon. Members to respect you as the Chair. I think there is so much noise which is going on. The Chief Whip for the ruling party is not here, he is a member of the Pan African Parliament and he is away for two weeks. I think it is important that the ruling party does consider whether they want a Chief Whip who is away for two weeks. There is no Deputy Chief Whip because he is late. So, I think it is important not to grab more than you can eat because you can see what is happening here; it is a result of disorder because the Chief Whip is away for two weeks and the Deputy Chief Whip is not there. It is important Mr. Speaker Sir, that as you can see Hon. Mutseyami is here if he chooses to be at PAP, it causes so much commotion. They are given enough resources, and a better welfare than us for them to be there full time. So what else is he doing at Pan-African Parliament? It is destroying the ruling party’s mandate of doing the job. The ruling party has got a lot of capable intelligent people who can be going to Pan-African Parliament. He cannot be the only one who is able to do that.
Secondly, it is very clear that the ruling party and the main opposition are not talking before they come here because these issues were supposed to be discussed and agreed upon. We have spent at least an hour talking about issues which were supposed to be discussed outside this House. It is the practice of this Parliament that before they come here, they agree on issues. An hour has gone talking about issues that would have been spoken about earlier on. The Minister, who is also the head of Government business, is not the Chief Whip. I would want to ask why the Chief Whip who is well remunerated still goes outside the country and he is not only the Chief Whip for the ruling party but for Government and for everyone. This now affects the way this Parliament is being run, ZANU PF has got a number of capable people who can go to PAP, not only Togarepi. As such, this issue must be revisited. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order! There is no water in the toilets. How can we stay up to Seven o’clock p.m. without water? There is a big gathering of people here, Members of Parliament have collapsed, some have died, and there is no water in this Parliament building.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have understood you Hon.
Madzimure, I am taking measures for people to go and check. I am being told that there are water bowsers that are coming to rectify the problem.
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Speaker, water bowsers will not
address the flushing system in the toilets.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. This has to do with the business of the day. The Speaker ruled that we had adjourned so that whatever documentation could be put in the pigeon holes. None of the members has anything which was supposed to be put in there. Mr. Speaker had ruled that we needed to read. We have not received that. So what are we going to debate on?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, yes there are
complaints from other Members that some Members are stealing documents from pigeon holes. You need to sign for that document in the Journals Office.
HON. T. MLISWA: I hear what you are saying that the documents might be stolen but there was never an announcement to notify the members that in view of documents being stolen, you now have to go and sign at the Papers Office. There was no such communication.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Mliswa
for raising that issue. Now, I have actually announced that Members must go and sign – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – HON. S. BANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir, how do we debate something that we do not have and have never seen? – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – It cannot be debated. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Can you give me time to respond to what you are saying? The Papers Office is now bringing those books in this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order. On a point of order.....
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The debate is not finishing today. You can still debate tomorrow – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. S. BANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The book is coming. I have not recognised you.
HON. S. BANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir! Mr. Speaker Sir!
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have not recognised you. I will send you out Hon. Member.
HON. S. BANDA: You can send me out! You can send me out!
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I have not recognised you.
HON. S. BANDA: You can send me out, I cannot debate on something that I have never read. I was chased away on Thursday and after that you are now refusing me my right to read. We cannot debate something that we have not read – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: The books are coming Hon. Member. If you do not debate today, there is time to debate tomorrow after you have read.
HON. S. BANDA: No. No. No – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member!
HON. S. BANDA: The Hon. Minister Sekesai Nzenza asked for time to read the NSSA report. Why are you saying. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: I said the books are coming. The debate is not closing today. You can still debate tomorrow and Thursday.
HON. S. BANDA: We need time to read – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
MOTION
FINANCE BILL: BUDGET DEBATE
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion that leave be granted to bring in a Finance Bill.
Question again proposed.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for affording us the opportunity as your Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic
Development....
*HON. DINAR: On a point of order ....
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I cannot recognise
you. Please resume your seat.
*HON. DINAR: On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, you said you cannot change the decision that was made by Hon. Mudenda that we should read the report, why are you now saying that we should go and collect the report – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. MHONA: Once again, thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording your Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development Committee to present its report of the 2019 Mid-Year Budget Review and Supplementary Budget.
Hon. Speaker Sir,
Finance and Economic Development Hon. Minister, Professor Mthuli Ncube, on Thursday 1 August 2019 unveiled a ZW$10,85 billion supplementary budget when he presented the Mid-Year Budget Review (MYBR) and Supplementary Budget. The Mid-Year budget review statement was meant to highlight progress made with regards to implementation of the National Budget and provides a synopsis of macroeconomic developments during the first half of the fiscal year. This allows Honourable Members, guided by indications of current performance and projected economic statistics, to consider proposals for necessary fiscal policy interventions to realign the policy thrust towards the broader macroeconomic objectives. The statement also sets the tone of the 2020 budget. It accords an evaluation of the efficacy of the existing policy and an opportunity to modify macroeconomic parameters and adjust government expenditure and revenue along more suitable lines for accelerating service delivery to the citizens.
1.1 The statement came amid a background of economic headwinds, characterised by spiking inflation, lack of liquidity, dwindling disposable incomes and a crippling shortage of electricity which has seen households and industry go for up to 18 hours a day without power.
- COMPLIANCE TO LEGISLATION
- The legal requirements underpinning the preparation and presentation of this statement to the august House are provided for in Section 7 (2) (a) of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA) which requires the Minister responsible for finance to “provide full and transparent accounts, from time to time and not less than annually to Parliament, indicating the current and projected State of the Economy, the Public Resources of Zimbabwe and the Fiscal Policy of the
Government.”
- COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS
- Credibility of projections in the Budget Review
- The Committee feels vindicated after raising concerns with the initial 2019 budget overall growth projection of 3.1 % amid glaring challenges the economy was facing such as foreign currency supply and allocation inefficiencies, exchange rate misalignment, inflationary pressures, Elnino forecast and reduced aggregate demand. The revised growth projection of -2.1 % is a drift closer to reality although it is worrisome in the context of Sub Saharan Africa’s revised growth projection of 3.4%.
- The Committee is concerned with inflation projections in the absence of a robust production stimulus. As the Committee rightfully pointed out in its 2019 budget report, foreign currency shortages, revision of excise duty on fuel and payment of duty in forex for selected goods are also expected to drive inflationary pressures. The Committee is also of the view that while it is very noble to rebase inflation, economic agents between now and February 2020 will resort to unofficial Year on Year (YOY) inflation figures from the likes of the Old Mutual Implied Rate and Prof Hanke which may cause alarm and despondency just like what the black market did to the USD in the absence of a transparent market. The Committee recommends ZIMSTAT to continue publishing YOY inflation using the 2009 base and switch to the new base in February 2020 in order to manage inflation perceptions.
- Currency issues
- The Committee commends the Minister for providing clarity on the currency framework in light of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 and after promulgation of new exemptions to the policy which sent wrong signals in the market. There is however need for clarity on the fees and charges on services provided to foreign registered businesses especially haulage trucks transiting through Zimbabwe.
- Budget Information
- The Committee calls upon Treasury to work towards improving budget information. The debt information provided on paragraphs 26 to 36 and on Annex 11 is not as detailed as provided for in Section 300 (4) of the Constitution which mandates the Minister to: (a) at least twice a year, report to Parliament on the performance of—
- loans raised by the State; and
- loans guaranteed by the State;
(b) at the same time as the estimates of revenue and expenditure are laid before the National Assembly in terms of section 305, table in Parliament a comprehensive statement of the public debt of Zimbabwe.
In view of this, the Committee requests the Minister to bring a detailed statement on debt to the House.
3.3.2 The Committee is concerned on how the budget will be financed, the efficacy of the revenue projections of $14.06 billion and the effects of a domestic financing of $5,8 billion of the gap. The concern arises from the realisation that companies are severely affected by the operating environment especially power which has the bearing on the corporate tax and ability to pay salaries on time. Depressed aggregate demand also has a bearing on VAT, PAYE and Customs Duty.
3.3.3 The Committee is of the opinion that it is immoral for the Minister to claim a budget surplus in the first half of the year when service delivery is not as envisaged in TSP under social protection cluster and when Government departments are accumulating huge arrears due to non-release of funds.
3.3.4 The Committee is concerned with the comparisons made to $US and ZWD figures which have an impression of an impressive performance of the financial sector (Paragraph 57). It is for the same reasons of incomparability of ZWD and USD that the Ministry has rebased inflation.
3.3.5 The 2019 Budget provided for ZWL$1.017 billion for goods and services. Taking into account inflation and exchange rate developments in the economy, a supplementary budget of ZWL$2.8 billion is being proposed, covering requirements for all ministries through their respective Votes. Of concern however is the uneven distribution of the resources as shown on Annex 1.
3.3.6 The Committee commends the Minister for setting aside funds to support agriculture well in time before the season starts. With regards to extension of Command Agriculture, it is important for Government to abide by its undertaking that selection of beneficiary farmers and suppliers will be done in a transparent manner and targets farmers with a good track record of honouring obligations.
3.3.7 The Committee commends Government for finally allowing royalty to be deductible as a tax expense in line with best practice, taking into account that royalties are a direct and significant cost of production and the need to maintain the viability of the mining sector which has become the “goose that lay the golden egg”. This issue has been raised since 2014. According to Ernest and Young Study (2015), countries such as Mozambique, Zambia, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Tanzania have more than doubled their Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in the mining sector after adopting low and stable mining royalty regimes.
3.3.8 The Committee commends Government for introducing public auction of TBs which the Committee has been advocating. Private placements where Government directly engaged private investors to take up Treasury Bills to raise funds has got disadvantages of being inflationary, increases bank debt and that system does not guarantee a defined yield gap.
3.4 Parliament Allocation
3.4.1The Committee is concerned with the inadequate supplementary allocations of goods and services under the Parliament Vote as indicated in the Annex 1.
3.4.2 The Committee recommends that Parliament administers and manages its own budget with resources released at least quarterly rather than the current situation where Parliament is made to queue for funds together with all other Government departments. Untimely release of funds has made Parliament to accumulate huge outstanding payment arrears to service providers who are now shunning Parliament. This has put a serious dent on the dignity of Parliamentarians who are now shunned by hotels and other service providers. As a custodian of constitutional democracy, Parliament needs adequate resources to carry out its mandate consistent with Section 325 (b) of the Constitution and there should be no negotiation on that regard. Moreover, the concept of separation of powers entails that funding of Parliament should be a separate process to the main budget and Parliament, and as one of the three arms of the State must manage its own funds.
3.4.3 The Committee feels that by allowing Parliament to manage its own budget, a win-win situation will be created as this will enable
Administration of Parliament to implement a wholesome package where Members are given a monthly stipend and allowed to manage their own affairs. This will be in contrast to the current situation where millions are blown every week in accommodation and related expenses during
Parliament sitting days. Expenditure on salaries and allowances on MPs compared to expenditure on accommodation casts a dark cloud on austerity intention.
3.5 Allocation to the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development
3.5.1 The Committee is concerned with the 7291% increase in allocation to the unallocated reserve of the Ministry of Finance from ZW$12.6 m to ZW$929 m. This is on the back of overruns in the unallocated reserve in the first quarter (ZW$210.4 million against a budget of ZW$12.6 m) and this was the case in 2018. Ideally, the Unallocated Reserve should meet unexpected expenditure by ministries and departments like Cyclone Idai. Otherwise under normal situation, ministries should budget all their financial requirements and make draw downs on their budget lines.
3.6 Other recommendations
3.6.1 The Ministry should provide clarity on the allocation of import permits for the ring-fenced importation of 100 000 commercial tyres at a lower duty rate of 15% for a period of twelve months, else it becomes a conduit of corruption. The Committee is of the view that importation should just be open while Government makes strides to support the local manufacturer to resume production. Reduction of duty of commercial tyres and reduction of customs duty on the raw materials used in the manufacture of motor vehicle filters will have negligible impact on the cost to consumers and vehicle owners.
3.6.2 The Committee recommends reduction of excise duty on fuel so as to push transport costs down. The effect will be felt by all consumers and produces including commuters.
3.6.3 The Committee is recommending that the Minister makes specific pronouncement around streamlining of mining fees and charges. This has been recommended over the years with no action on the ground. Merely calling upon the Mining Sector Cluster on the Ease of Doing Business Initiative to finalise and implement agreed positions relating to streamlining fees and charges levied on mining operations is not good enough without strict deadlines.
3.6.4 The Committee recommends that Government reviews fees, levies and charges for its services including Government housing, registration of mining claims and motor vehicles, acquisition of driving licence, import licences and passport fees, among others be expedited as and when necessary rather than wait for the budget or budget review. This is also the case with power tariff. In an inflationary environment, delayed review of these charges results in suboptimal fees, charges and tariffs whose cost is borne by the taxpayer. Section 78 of the PFMA empowers Treasury to prescribe or issue instructions or directions to ministries, whether individually or collectively on such matters.
3.6.5 The Committee recommends a further upward review of the tax free threshold to ZW$1000 given the need to stimulate demand. This is also consistent with the justification given in paragraphs 340-343 on the need to revise charges in line with market developments and exchange rate. All the charges, levies and fees were increased by at least
500%, hence the need to adjust tax free threshold by at least 185% to
ZW$1000. This is justifiable by looking at the Total Consumption Poverty Line (TCPL) for an average of five persons per household which stood at $873.00 in March 2019, according to ZIMSTAT. Taxing the already below poverty line income of ZW$700 is pushing the worker further into poverty.
3.6.6 In the same vein, the Committee feels the ZW$1.506 billion additional funds set aside for employment costs is grossly inadequate to compensate the loyal Government employees. This represents a mere 37.19% increase from ZW$4.050 billion to ZW$5.556 billion. This is a sharp contrast to inflation which was last reported at 175.66% in June
2019 and service charges which went up by 500%.
3.6.7 The Ministry should provide an update on how it is implementing Auditor General recommendations relating to direct payments and inconsistencies between the Public Finance Management System (PFMS) and sub Paymaster General (SubPMG) account.
3.6.8 Government must prioritise establishment of a Commodities Exchange for marketing of agricultural goods which has been on the cards since 2010. As such, Parliament should get quarterly reports on the matter. The Committee recommends building on efforts that have already been done in this regard including several study visits, registration of a private company Commodity Exchange in Zimbabwe (COMEZ) on 8 June 2010 which culminated in the release of seed capital of US$1million in 2013.
- CONCLUSION
Zimbabwe has never been short of good economic policies but the only set back has been the lack of implementation and policy inconsistencies. Implementation, compliance and unity of purpose are key to achieving the budget objectives. The Committee therefore recommends the House to approve this supplementary budget subject to incorporation of these and other recommendations from Parliament.
I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to seek clarity from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development on Vote 2 – Parliament on 1C, on page 10. Hon. Members pay attention to this one because it talks to you.
If you go to 1C on capital transfers and you go to the column revised estimate right at the bottom, if you look at the vehicle loan scheme, original estimate was $21 000 and the revised estimate for 2019 is $81 million. If you then divide that with the interbank, you get $9 million and if you divide 350 into $9 million, it means that each Member of Parliament will get US$25 000 for a car. This is what the Blue Book says and you must now understand why they were keeping it away. Do your Mathematics.
So, does it mean that we are going to get cars worth $25 000, which is a pick-up truck? So, clarity is sought in that regard. This is the Blue Book. Members do your figures with your calculator and if you pass this budget, you are getting $25 000 for a car. I am done. Thank you and clarity is sought.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, your point of order
has been noted. The Minister will respond to it later.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording me this opportunity to ventilate my ideas on the Supplementary Budget.
May I want to applaud the Minister for the Supplementary Budget – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Ash, butsu dzakabooka] -
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I ask the Hon. Member who said bhutsu dzakabooka to apologise. I think it is Hon. Dorcas Sibanda. She should withdraw her statement. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Dorcas Sibanda said bhutsu dzakabooka and can she withdraw that statement?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda can you withdraw that
statement if you have said so. May you withdraw please for the sake of progress?
HON. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir, did you hear me saying
that?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Please can you withdraw? Can you do the honourable thing? May you just do the honourable thing and withdraw? Do you want to be guided? Hon. Members, do not mislead – we have Hansard here who are actually recording. Now, if you are saying that she did not say so and if we check with the Hansard and it is actually seen, that will be contempt of Parliament. Why would you want to do that – why? Hon. Sibanda, please withdraw.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker Sir, with all due respect, I really do not feel comfortable with the Hon. Member demanding me to apologise to him – for what Mr. Speaker? If I say bhutsu dzakabooka ndakagara kuno, ndiri kutaura bhutsu yake here? Why did he quickly feel that I am talking about his shoe? Bhutsu dzakabooka dzakawanda. Why did he quickly think that I am talking of his shoes? Why should he bring shoes dzakabooka kuParliament?
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Okay Hon. Sibanda, you are saying
you did not say that statement. Are you saying so?
HON. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am standing up because you have given me the space. Can you ask him to sit down – sit down?
I withdraw my statement Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you very much.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for protecting me,
otherwise ...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Agreed. May you resume your
debate.
HON. T. MOYO: First and foremost Hon. Speaker, may I take this opportunity to applaud the Hon. Minister for the supplementary budget. Of particular importance and something that is very indispensable is the issue of vulnerable households in our society. I want to applaud the Hon. Minister for coming up with a proper supplementary budget to cushion rural household families who are so impoverished. It is important to commend the Minister for putting in place RTGS$447m which is going to target vulnerable households. Of particular importance are the peasants who are staying or living in our rural areas, RTGS$437 million will go a long way in the purchase of grain especially maize, sorghum, pearl millet, sugar, soya beans, Compound D and Ammonium Nitrate.
It is very important and crucial at this particular point given the time of the year. We are now in August and we are left with about two months before the onset of the rain season. So, this amount is very important and invaluable as it is going to eradicate poverty in our communities. On the aspect of the supplementary budget – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Please lower your voices.
HON. T. MOYO: Another aspect of the budget which is also very important is the allocation of RTGS$230million which is targeted towards cotton producers. The area which is envisaged, where cotton will be cultivated, is about 200 thousand hectares. This RTGS$230 million will alleviate particularly those small scale farmers, those who are in rural areas like in my constituency, Gokwe. Chireya where you find out that there are hard working farmers there. What they need are Presidential inputs; in this case, the farmers are going to be availed with seed, fertilisers, pesticides and so forth. That will going to go a long way in trying to capacitate those farmers so that they produce enough for their sustenance.
Another aspect of the supplementary budget which I also want to comment on is the RTGS$630 million which has been budgeted for in terms of importation of grain. I am sure it is very important that the GMB is going to be the sole buyer of grain. So, in this case, we are saying if we allocate RTGS$630 million, it means no one in Zimbabwe is going to die of hunger. These are mitigatory measures to counter the effects and scourge of drought which is also very important, particularly the issue of importation.
Another important point which I need also to highlight is the fact that the Government has also availed enough money to buy grain from local farmers; it is not every one who did not get adequate grain. We have some farmers who managed to produce grain and we have realised that the Government has gone a step further to increase the producer price of grain from RTGS$700 to RTGS$2100 and we need to applaud the Government for a job well done.
Other aspects which I also need to note include the welfare of civil servants. This is a very crucial matter which we also need to applaud and to critique the supplementary budget. I need to recognise the fact that RTGS$63 million was paid to employees in the month of April, RTGS$400 million was also budgeted for the payment of civil servants and also once off cushioning allowance in July which translated to RTGS$400 per individual.
Hon. Speaker Sir, if the truth is to be said, we need to invite the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development to revise and to allow salaries of the workers so that the workers’ salaries should be in line with the interbank rate. It should be above the rate of inflation. Most of the civil servants are police officers, teachers, some of the teachers are highly qualified and if we are going to calculate what they are earning per month, it is equivalent to US$100. In this regard, I want to call upon the Minister of Finance to address this issue because it is an issue which needs urgent attention.
I heard there is going to be bonus in November but bonus of nothing is nothing – [HON. MEMBERS: Ndopawagonawo ipapa.] - In our universities, lecturers are earning around RTGS$3000, a salary which they used to earn in 2015/16. If we are going to calculate how much they are earning per month, it is equivalent to US$300, something that does not give dignity to our Government employees. Finally Mr. Speaker, there are many aspects of the supplementary budget which can be commendable and others that can be criticised. I want to thank you for the opportunity that you have afforded me.
HON. BITI: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir, for allowing me to contribute to the supplementary budget brought by the esteemed Minister of Finance on 1st August 2019, a very significant date in the country’s history. Hon. Speaker Sir, the country is reeling under the weight of crippling multiple challenges that include the challenge of macro-economic instability, that include interest rates that are so high but still below the rate of inflation; challenges that include the ugly return of hyper-inflation. Inflation now as I am talking to you Hon. Speaker, stands around 560 percent and challenges that include crippling power shortages, shortages that are lasting 18 hours a day, in some cases 24 hour power shortages, something that is unprecedented in the 100 or so history of modern Zimbabwe from 1888.
The majority of our people Hon. Speaker Sir, are wallowing in poverty, 79% of our people are living below the poverty datum line surviving on less than US$0.35. Hon. Speaker Sir, the supplementary budget therefore has an obligation to provide a campus to provide leadership, to provide direction in the face of the existence of these multiple challenges. I want to say Hon. Speaker, that one of the key challenges that is now facing Zimbabwe more than ever is the challenge of corruption. Corruption has become so accentuate – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Hear, hear.] – corruption has become so accelerated. Billions and billions of dollars Hon. Speaker Sir, are being lost unlike in the past where the chief infrastructures of corruption were found in the private sector in multi-national corporations, illicit financial flows. The recent character and the recent face of corruption is corruption that is taking place through Central Government itself, corruption that is being channeled through the Ministry of Finance itself and this is a huge challenge that is affecting our country.
Now, when you measure the Supplementary Budget that was read out by the esteemed Minister of Finance on the 1st of August, 2019, visa-vis these challenges, with great respect you find the budget falling short being dwarfed not being equal to the challenges that we are facing. Not only that, the budget itself is a big fraud, it is an entire statement of misrepresentation of the true state of the economic affairs of our country.
I will start by the claim that we are in fact increasing the budget by ZWL$10 billion. Infact, the budget speaks of anticipated revenue of 14 billion dollars, expenditure of ZWL18 billion. Many of us will sit here and think that we are actually increasing the budget; I actually submit that we are contracting the budget. Our budget in 2019 that we
approved in this august House on the 21st of December, 2019 in the early hours was a budget expressed in USD$6 billion. Now, when you now approve a budget that is now ZWL$14 billion and when the black market rate is 1:10, it means you have reduced USD6 billion to 1,4 billion dollars. So, we are in fact shrinking the cake which is regrettable.
When you pronounce a budget, you are providing economic indicators for planners and one of the key figures you must give is the figure for GDP, is the figure for growth rate. This is the first budget in the history of budgets that actually skirts the issue of GDP growth rate. I want to refer to paragraph 68, page 25 of the Budget Statement. On that point, I also want to place on record our complaint that when the Budget Statement was read out on the 1st August, 2019, it was not made available to Members on 2nd August, 2019 and we have only been given this budget a few minutes ago in this august Chamber. The practice is that once it is laid before the table, it must be available in our pigeon holes or at least in the Papers Office in the first floor – it was not available. That is not good governance and that is not good hygiene.
However, paragraph 68, page 25, it says, “in view of headwinds, the revised 2019 GDP growth is expected to be negative and even below the -2% projected under the SMP. Treasury will, therefore, keep tracking key developments in the economy with a view of making appropriate adjustments to sectoral growth profiles”.
Hon. Speaker Sir, it is not good enough to say ah! It will be below -2%. This statement must define the figure - what is the figure of the growth rate for 2019 because every planner wants it. The reason why the esteemed Minister did not pin this figure is because it is frightening. In its April Regional Economic Outlook, the IMF projected that our growth rate in 2019 will be -5, 5%. I would like to submit with great respect that our growth rate will be at least -8,5% due to a number of issues including Cyclone Idai, the crippling drought that has affected our country when it is in fact an agricultural based economy. So, you cannot produce and present a Mid Year Statement without the growth rate, without also the growth rate of the half year ending January to June 2019. If you are not going to present the growth rate for the half year ending, there is no point in coming to this august House because the growth rate is the fundamental figure in economic planning.
Another myth is the much hyped myth about the surplus. The Minister speaks of a surplus of 800 million. Hon. Speaker Sir, with great respect it is a misnoma, an error, a wrong, an omission to speak of a surplus and to boost of a surplus when you are using cash account in the context of expenses and expenditure that accrues. So, unless we graduate to accrual accounting, it is not possible in the middle of a year or in the quarter of a year to speak about a surplus when you are using cash account.
Hon. Speaker, when you are repressing allocations and disbursements to ministries and ministries are starving; there are no drugs in hospitals, there are no textbooks in schools and there are massive deficits in virtually every Ministry, you cannot boost of a surplus when you have kept the tap closed and you are not distributing even the Statutory allocations that you pronounced in your budget.
However, more importantly Hon. Speaker, we know that the surplus is a myth because the Supplementary Budget itself provides for anticipated revenue of ZWL$14 billion and expenditure of 18 billion dollars. So, the budget itself is budgeting for a deficit of 4 billion dollars which is at least 4% of the total budget. So, there is in fact no surplus to talk about.
I want to go even to expenditure. You will see that in the half year ending June 2018, the total expenditure was 4,2 billion dollars but if you go to the original budget as of June 2019, the actual expenditure should have been 3.8. So the Minister who is talking about a surplus and austerity in fact exceeded his expenditure limit by at least 15% being the difference between 3,8 billion and 4,2 billion dollars. So it is as smokescreen budget marinated in this language but obfuscating and hiding the serious flows in the Budget Statement as a technical document but more importantly hiding the structural flows that are affecting our economy.
The third issue I want to speak about which is very disconcerting is the unlawful and unconstitutional devaluation that the Minister has impacted on this economy. You know Hon. Speaker, that in the last five years, this economy has been sustained by Treasury Bills. These Treasury Bills were issued in USD currency and are therefore USD paper. They constitute the bulk of our country’s domestic debt. In one sweep, the Minister has converted the USD9 billion Treasury Bills to ZWL$9 billion. This is a breach of Section 71 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. Section 71 protects the right to protect the right to property and the right against appropriation. I want to make reference in particular to paragraph 34, page 14 of the Budget Statement where the
Minister or officials write as follows; “Consequently, adherence to sound fiscal and monetary policy reforms allowed containment of domestic debt stock which stood at ZWL$8.8 billion as at the end of
June 2019 down from ZWL $9.5 billion as at 3 December 2018.”
The Treasury Bills were never indexed in Zimbabwean dollar. The
Zimbabwean dollar did not exist until the 20th of February 2019 when
the Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019 was enacted. You cannot devalue the entire stock of domestic debt and suddenly index it in the Zimbabwean dollar. It is illegal, unconstitutional and it will have serious ramifications to the economy.
Another myth is the myth by the Minister contained on page 15 paragraphs 37 to 41 of the Budget Statement. The Minister says; “the current account for the first time since the adoption of the multi-currency regime in 2009 registered a surplus in the first quarter of 2019.
A surplus of US$196 million was registered in the first quarter of
2019 compared to a deficit of US$491 million for the same period in 2018 constituting a major improvement in the current account.”
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, may I remind you that you are remaining with five minutes.
HON. BITI: I will be very quick Mr. Speaker. It is not possible to talk of a current account surplus in Zimbabwe when our GDP has shrunk by more than minus 8%. It is not possible to talk of a current account surplus when the economy is not producing; when you go to every supermarket in Zimbabwe whether it is TM or OK Bazaar and find that 60-80% of the goods are imported. It is not possible to speak of a current account surplus when we spend over US$1.5 billion of real money importing fuel when we require at least US$40 million per month to import electricity. You cannot speak of a tiny surplus created by demand suppression methods and difficulties in getting foreign currency and you boast of foreign currency.
I want to say to the Hon. Minister of Finance, do not be concerned with lipstick, mascara and foundation. Do not be concerned about figures. Let the economy itself speak truthfully – what is the proper GDP growth rate? Another lip stick issue is; it is unprecedented in the history of economics and I am not an economist – I am just a poor lawyer but it is unprecedented in the history of economics that a Minister of Finance, a whole educated Professor can suppress inflation figures. It is not possible.
The Minister does not have power to issue a directive in terms of the Statistical Act of directing the Zimbabwe Statistical Offices (ZIMSTATS) to suspend inflation figures but more importantly from a good governance point of view, it is improper for the Minister to suspend inflation figures. What are you trying to hide? Let the economic figures speak. Disclose GDP, inflation rates and proper debt figures.
On the issue of debt, only last week this august House adopted a report by the Public Accounts Committee on serious non compliance issues at the Ministry of Finance. One of the issues we raised was that the Minister of Finance was not bringing before this august House consolidated figures of overall debt twice a year as is required by Section 300 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. We note with regret that practice is continuing. I associate myself with the remarks of the esteemed Chairman of the Budget and Finance Committee, Hon. Mhona that it is not good enough. The Minister of Finance must comply with Section 300 of the Constitution and supply a proper schedule of all the debt that is contracted in the name of Zimbabwe.
This is a big issue because we know that the Reserve Bank is busy contracting debt. Two years ago, this august House was forced to pass an RBZ Debt Assumption Bill of US$1.5 billion. I want to assure Hon.
Members that unless we stamp our feet and our ground, the next Debt
Assumption Bill from the RBZ will be bigger than US$1.5 billion. Hon.
Minister Sir, please comply with Section 300 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, your time is up.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Hon. Biti’s
time be extended.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I second.
HON. BITI: I want to move to solutions but there is one governance issue that concerns me. The Ministry of Finance seeks to allocate to itself in an unallocated reserve the sum of $1 192 384 000. Hon. Speaker, this is bad governance. The House must approve every cent in the Blue Book. When the Ministry of Finance becomes at the fore front of mafia and bad governance – it is not acceptable. The Minister must disaggregate this $1.9 billion and then distribute it to the respective ministries and not to hide zvikwambo nezvisenga imo mu $1.9
billion.
I want to move to solutions. I want to say to the esteemed Minister of Finance that this economy will not move without attending to structural reforms both political and economics. We are wasting our time Hon. Speaker, if we ignore the challenge of legitimacy and the fundamental fact that there has to be dialogue in this country.
Secondly, the Hon. Minister must attend to the structural issue of ghost workers. The wage bill is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Speaker Sir, the wage bill is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - The wage bill is consuming about 85% of the resources. The Government must have the courage and decency of addressing the wage bill.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Biti. There is a point of
order.
*HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. When
discussing issues to do with legality and legitimacy of a Government, like the Hon. Member rightly said, the budget of a Government that he does not support – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. BITI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker Sir, I want to say to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that the move to dedollarise the economy was a disaster, a tsunami and I want to submit, Hon. Speaker, that the Hon. Minister must repeal Statutory
Instrument 142 of 2019 and immediately redollarise the country. Without redollarising the country, Hon. Speaker, we are going nowhere in the short term, so I submit.
The fourth thing, Hon. Speaker, we need an urgent resolution on the Zimbabwe debt crisis. The country cannot move with a crippling debt of US$17 billion or US$18 billion. Since October 2015, the Government has been doddering with the Lima process. Lima is dead, it must be buried at Warren Hills. The IMF is wasting time with us. We need to carry out serious structural reforms so that this country can move forward, but as I said at the beginning, without political reforms we are wasting our time. I thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have a few things that I have in support of the supplementary budget before us. Firstly, I want to dwell on the issue that the Minister mentioned. It is the issue on people with disability. I want to thank the Minister of Finance and Economic Development for reinstating the duty free for those people with disability in terms of availing duty free cars for them. In the event of death, the person who takes it over used to pay duty, but now they have said that if such an event occurs, the person cannot pay duty.
What I want to say, Minister of Finance and Economic Development, is that people with disabilities are varied. There are people who are blind, there are some who are physically handicapped, but we also have war veterans. The war veterans themselves are not able to walk, whether they have two legs. They are people with disability because when they used to move during the war, they never used to use vehicles.
For you to be there, Hon. Minister, it is because of the sacrifice by the liberation war veterans. Some of us lost our sense of hearing, some are blind and some do not have legs at all. We should take a leaf from America which has the War Veterans Association for World War II. In Namibia they have the War Veteran’s Social Service.
The war veterans should be allowed to buy vehicles. Nothing has been done to improve the lives of the war veterans. It would be good if they could be enabled to buy cars duty free. As Members of Parliament, we represent people and we have been told that we should get vehicles that are duty free for five years.
HON. MAYIHLOME: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. The Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services just conducted public hearings on the same issue that the Hon. Member is talking about and it is covered in the report that we are yet to present – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- He is a member of the Committee.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order please.
HON. MAYIHLOME: He is a member of that Committee and he cannot preempt our report here. Yes, Hon. Chinotimba is a member of the Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services. He cannot preempt our Committee report; no we cannot allow it – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members please.
May I ask Hon. Chinotimba to approach ddress the Chair.
Hon.Chinotimba approached the Chair.
I want to make a ruling. May the Hon. Member, the Chairperson, allow the Hon. Member – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Order please! – [AN HON. MEMBER: Ngavabvumidzwe kutaura.]- Order please! Hon. Members order! May the Hon. Member allow Hon.
Chinotimba to proceed because this is a budgetary issue – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am debating the budget. I am not debating the report of which if we do not debate the budget on the war veterans now, we will only be able to see the budget next year. So I am debating the budget that should be implemented in the mid-year plan. Mr. Speaker, the Budget that is talking of people with disability, I am saying all the war veterans are living with disability, no matter who. They are all disabled. They used to walk on foot but some of them no longer have limbs and are having challenges with their joints. I want the Minister of Finance to include it in his Mid-Year Budget that the war veterans should be allowed to buy vehicles duty free. All Members in this august House will be getting duty free vehicles but war veterans are not allowed to get duty free vehicles. I think even ten years for a duty free vehicle is okay. War veterans in America, Namibia, South Africa, when the Minister of
Finance in those countries are presenting the Budget, they advocate that war veterans should get certain priorities. I want to say that on the section of people with disability, the Minister should include war veterans so that they are able to buy vehicles of their choice duty free for ten years or more once in a blue moon because the war veterans are suffering.
On the issue of command agriculture, Mr. Speaker Sir, the Minister allocated a figure – let me tell you Mr. Speaker, there is no diesel. You have allocated maybe $10 billion but there is no diesel. We do not know where the diesel will come from for people to engage in agriculture. For all of us to be here in this House, it is because of food but if we do not have diesel and without specific filling stations for farmers, we are not going anywhere. If you are to go to PUMA, there is no diesel. The MPs have their coupons in their pockets because the diesel is not available. What we are saying is, yes, you increased the Budget allocation towards command agriculture or farming but where will this be drawn from. The Government and the Ministry of Finance should set aside filling stations for farmers.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, we want to talk about civil servants.
Minister, we have an event that happened when we removed the United States Dollar converting to the mono currency system that we have. We did not address the issue of salaries of our workers. The workers’ salaries were left at the rate of 1:1 yet the money was from US$1 to Z$3.50. We did not convert it to the equivalent of the $3.50 that was at the interbank rate. Mr. Speaker, I am saying this because we are also representatives of the workers. The workers are not getting any money. It is not sufficient for them. It should have been equated to the interbank rate. The issue at hand Mr. Speaker is that diesel prices are going up, the bus fares are also going up and the worker is still on US$1 to
Z$1when he is now paying a fare of $5 from Glen View to come here. To come from my home area Birchenough to Harare, they are now paying $70 and the worker who is earning $300 cannot visit his home area.
We are saying, in this Supplementary Budget, the Minister should have cushioned the civil servants and increased the salaries. In fact, the money that was increased by the Ministry of Finance should have gone to the Ministry of Public Service so that the workers could get adequate salaries. As I speak here Mr. Speaker, I am saying the money that was put towards Ministry of Public Service should be increased because that is where the civil servants are and that is where everyone is represented.
For the Government to get money, the civil servants look for the money. The moment we do not pay them adequate salaries, it means there is going to be an increase in corruption. What are they going to do at the end of the day in order to fend for themselves? I want to thank the Minister of Finance for increasing the Budget for people living with disability by $700 thousand; those whom you said will be availed food in both the rural and urban areas. The $700 thousand is a bit low. I think the figure should increase because Zimbabwe has about 14 million to 16 million people right now. There are more than 700 thousand people living in poverty in rural areas. I think that figure should be increased to more than $1 million to ensure that people in rural areas gets food and are secure. I thank you.
The Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development having left the Chamber.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on this – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please. The Minister has had an engagement of just 40 minutes right now. He has left his officials. He is coming back. Can we proceed?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I am of the view that why can we not suspend the debate for the 40 minutes that the Hon. Minister is out of the House and we resume when the Hon. Minister returns. I think an issue like the Supplementary Budget debate is critical, important and it is important that the Minister be hearing viva voce as members deliberate on it. We cannot say that the Minister should rely on a record. Remember, the record we do not get time to correct it before it gets published. As a result, I propose that the debate be adjourned until the Minister comes back.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can I make a ruling on that. I
am satisfied that the Ministry officials that he has left here and the report that is going to come out is sufficient for the Minister. He is coming back – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. SIKHALA: The way our Ministers are handling business in this House leaves a lot to be desired. When Members are trying to give their input especially on an important subject like this Supplementary Budget, the Minister himself who will be answerable to many issues which the Hon. Members will raise must be present for him to record those details. You cannot tell us about the availability of his technical staff as if they would be able to come and answer us here. The person who will answer the concerns raised by the Hon. Members of Parliament is the Minister himself. Why for the first time; I have seen the attitude of this same Minister. That is why Hon. Chinotimba told him that
‘Minister, we fought this war, you do not respect war veterans and why are you not putting them’. He was trying to educate his thick head that he must respect Members of Parliament here. We cannot continue with the debate in his absence so that the things we want to raise here we will get an answer from him not from his technical staff. So as suggested by Hon. P.D. Sibanda, we move for the adjournment of this debate until the
Minister has come. This is the motion that we have moved here Hon.
Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I want to proceed to say there
is no need for the Minister to be always here when you are debating. Those who want to debate, may you continue to debate. Those who want to listen to the Minister, you can wait but I am sure the Minister is coming – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Can we proceed. Order please! The Chair is appraised that the Minister is coming back. Those who want to debate when the Minister is here cant wait and those who want to debate can debate – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Can we proceed, Hon. Mliswa.
HON. CHIKWINYA: A motion without motion has been moved and seconded and you have not yet called for any objections and therefore, that motion must sustain or else if you want any objections you must seek for objections. If there are objections, then you divide the House because a motion without notice has been moved. We are only being procedural. There are no objections and therefore, the motion as seconded must sustain.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. May I respond to the purported motion – [HON. SIKHALA: Withdraw
‘purported’] – Hon. Sikhala, because I did not hear it myself, this is why I am saying it is purported because I did not respond to it. Right, this is the Minister’s motion and no one according to the statutes can propose that this motion be suspended unless if the Minister does so. So, we cannot wait for the Minister to come and if you want to debate in the presence of the Minister, please reserve your debate.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity. Mr. Speaker Sir, let me begin by talking about the economic problems of this country. The economic problems of this country emanate from a liquidity problem and I want to further explain so that this House can appreciate what I am talking about. Liquidity is like blood in somebody’s body and when your body does not have enough blood you become anaemic. When you become anaemic, it affects the lungs, liver and many organs of the body because there is no blood. So, the problem is liquidity. There is no cash in the country.
There is no money in the country.
Second Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe is a country which is so rich but has no cash and let me explain this. You have Mr. White who has got shares in the Stock Exchange which are worth $20 million. They are in the form of cheques, they are in his pocket. You also have Mr. Brown who has $10 cash and you have a scenario where they both want to jump onto a tax and the tax driver requires $5. Mr. White has got $20 billion worth of cheques in his pocket and Mr. Brown has got $10 cash. Who will get that tax? Is it Mr. White with $20 billion cheques in his pocket or Mr. Brown with $10 in his pocket? It is Mr. Brown with $10 in his pocket because the tax is $5.
I want to further qualify this by saying, we talk about a deficit but then with that deficit you also talk about a surplus. Before you even factor in that deficit, how can you talk about a surplus. You owe the bank $50 million and you are overdrawn. Then you do not take the money to the bank but you keep telling people I have $20 million. You owe $50 million which is overdrawn and you have $20 million which you have not taken to the bank because you know if it goes to the bank it will be $30 million. But you then say you have a surplus because of the $20 million. That is basically what this surplus is about without considering the money that is owed. We are constantly sugar coating the deficit and because of that, the Minister with due respect had been given an opportunity to take cognisance of his predecessors who had problems and say clearly to the country that; I am taking this office on a background of so many things which were not a result of my doing but I will correct these things first before we move forward?
We talk about the IMF and when Dr Gono was still in office we dealt with IMF and he paid them money but nothing happened. Hon. Biti mentioned the IMF issue that we are constantly being played around with. IMF said reforms – cut down the workers and cut down everything. We are on a mission to do that but there is no money that comes in. There are delegations that are coming into Zimbabwe all the time and when they finish their work they go to Victoria Falls and then they go. How can you have one organisation giving you the same conditions yet they do not take into consideration the IMF money which was paid before. New money must be paid. So, for as long as we are constantly voting for the budget in this House where first of all it is 1:1 and we all know that the budget that we passed was in US dollars and suddenly we then have a surplus.
Let me move to Vote No 2, which is the welfare of
Parliamentarians. I want to talk about what I know best. We passed a budget but only 17% of what we passed has been given to Parliament. So, he needs more money. This is Parliament which is supposed to be one of the three arms of the State which is responsible for legislation, oversight and representation. These issues must be dealt with and we must be seen to be working hard. We have been accused of many things by so many people because of lack of understanding of our remuneration. I said that it is about time that the people of Zimbabwe know how much a Member of Parliament is paid, his/her medical aid, the coupons that they get, is there money, fuel or no fuel. We talk about staying in these hotels.
This Government is the most hypocritical government where it allows us to stay in hotels but it is not prepared to give us the money it pays to hotels to find ourselves somewhere to stay. If we talk of austerity measures, we must move out of those hotels and be given an allowance a month of three thousand dollars for accommodation and food. These Members would be having mortgages and houses as a result of that. But this government is spending so much money staying in hotels but none of these Members want to stay in hotels. If you calculate the amount of money you spend in hotels, a day is US$200. The Meikles is paid in US dollars and he is paying in US dollars. He is prepared to pay Meikles in US dollars. I am not saying Meikles is bad because it is their line of doing business. You now have a situation where US$200 per week is one thousand bond. The next week another thousand and in a month that is four thousand dollars. You can rent a one bedroom apartment for $500 and spend $500 on food and the rest goes into other issues.
We have not been offered that as Members of Parliament. We have a situation where those staying in hotels are spending $200 per day and those who are not staying in hotels are getting $60 which is equivalent to US$6. So, what I am urging all Members of Parliament to do is to stay in hotels even if you stay in Harare because you will be getting US$6 per day. What is the point? He is talking about austerity measures and we are all telling him that here we do not want to stay in hotels but give us at least $3000 per month which is less by $1000. We are helping him because we are not a Parliament which is selfish. We are the first Parliament to offer the Government an avenue for austerity measures by saying the $4000 that you spend per month on us, give us
$3000. Hon. Members, are you not prepared for that? – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear] -
So, here people say to us the government expenditure has not decreased. The Ministers are still driving the VX that he is so bent on us not having. They are driving Mercedes Benz and they are still travelling around the world. What is the point of having those ambassadors in those countries? What is the role of the Minister of Foreign Affairs? The office of the Ambassador has an Economic Affairs person whose job is to lobby on behalf of government any business. So, they are there to do that. The Minister at that point signs the paperwork and they go back. The Minister of Foreign Affairs is there to move around with the President to do what they have to do. But we have these embassies which are not working.
Let us talk about this Blue Book budget here. We go to the Members of Parliament – we cannot continue to be treated like kids and to have issues. We are denied this Blue Book because they think we are going to see what he is talking about. We want to discuss this Blue book before us not any other Blue Book. For him to tell us that he has the other 20% in the Blue Book, we do not know it. We are discussing this one which is the reviewed book. The other Blue Book has no review because I know what he will say to the issues raised. The officials are here whom you said are representing him. Do not take us back to the old Blue Book because it is nothing. We want to talk about this one that he has revised. You are the ones who came up with the interbank rate as
Ministry of Finance but you apply it as and when you think you should. You collect duty at interbank rate but you pay people at your own rate that you want. How can you be a government that cheats so openly?
Who brought the interbank rate? It is not Members of Parliament but the Government. The only thing I am asking which is fair and square is, may everything be pro-rated to the interbank rate, that is it. It is up to them where they are going to get the money. We had 1:1 and people’s monies were stolen.
On RTGs, did we not have RTGs two years ago? So how can this one be so different from the other one? Maybe I am mistaken but six months ago we had an RTGs multicurrency. It was part of it. So, why is it so different from this one? It is because they play games with people’s nostro accounts. When they want to raise foreign currency immediately they now come up with a different thing. He talked about
‘like to like’. In what terms? There has been so much inconsistency in the money policies. There is no one, whoever put in this money for as long as there is inconsistency in the money policies – no one. They will tell you, how can I put in US dollars because I do not know what else you will do. They are even scared to put money even in bonds because they do not know what the next currency will be.
We are the only country that has destroyed every currency. We are only left with the pound. Which currency have we not traded in this country? The reason of going into multicurrency was to give us a leeway to recover. When resources are being mined there is production. There is no production happening and there are no resources. The Minister of Mines and Mining Development – I do not know when he was last here. His Ministry is critical in terms of the GDP. It is the quickest way to make money as these are the lower hanging fruits. The deals that have been signed by the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development amount to $3.4 billion but this country cannot even take $10 million for ZESA yet we boasted on having investors who have signed a billion dollars. Where are we going, are we stupid? We cannot even get $10 million to pay for electricity.
You go to Vote 2 on the Constituency Development Fund, it is reviewed to 21 at interbank just that the officials cannot answer, I would have asked what is the rate at interbank so that they tell us. He introduced interbank sitting right there. You are the technocrats who are busy lying to the Minister too and he comes here. What is it that you are advising the Minister? What are these technocrats in the Ministry advising the Minister? We have technocrats who do not know what they are doing Mr. Speaker Sir, all that they are good in doing is travelling with the Minister and get allowances.
We need to have a situation where the interbank is effected. Talking about the Constituency Development Fund, it was US$50 000 for a term of five years. That $50 000, if you multiply with this, it is now $11 000.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, on a point of order
please – you have no right to address them.
HON. T. MLISWA: I am not addressing them. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order please. Can I proceed please? Hon. Members, order please, order please! What I am saying is that the rules do not allow you to address anybody besides the Chair.
So, even if there was a Minister, there was no right to address the Minister. Address the Chair!
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am a professional and at no point would I address them. I am talking about technocrats. At no point, unless I am not allowed to use the word ‘technocrat’, then I withdraw. They are technocrats who advise the Minister and I do not even know their names – I am just looking at them but you are following my eyes and not listening to what I am saying.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that is my job to make
sure that you address the Chair. If you address anybody else, I will rule you out of order please. Can you address me?
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I come to the CDF – it has now gone down.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: You have five minutes to go please.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it has now gone down to $11 000 and all we are saying here on the Blue Book is that, can this figure be matched with the interbank rate – that is all. We are asking the Minister to deal with a currency that he has and not that he does not have. It is up to us and the suppliers to see what they will do with the interbank money. That is not his problem, let him give us at interbank because we are buying everything at interbank. So, we must equally be given that at interbank.
You have the cars which are talked about - $81 million. We did the Maths - at 9 it is US$25 000. Stories have been mentioned; we started at $80, we passed a budget at $80 because we are stupid, and because others are whipped and so forth, they take advantage of that and say no it is down. There is a tendency of using the name of the
President. The President, if he wants anything to be changed in Parliament deals with the Speaker. Let Ministers not use the name of the President where they want to advance their agendas. Some of us are allowed to go and see the President and ask because anybody has access to them to verify. He understands and respects this institution. He has never interfered in this institution but you have people saying no, we have been told this by the President. The Constitution is very clear. If the President wants to communicate to Parliament, he will reduce it in black and white. He will equally tell the Speaker. The Members of ZANU PF of which you are at the caucus, you heard what the President said about the cars while you might not have been happy but he said once Parliament decides, it decides. But then we hear the President having said this and that. We want to stick to what we agreed in this budget. That is all we want.
This $80 million must go at interbank. Let us give these car companies money at interbank and it is up to them to look for the foreign currency. This is all we are demanding at the end of the day. This is not only for us but I talk about every Zimbabwean civil servant that their moneys must go to interbank. You talk about a cushioning allowance – what is a cushioning allowance after seven months of not being paid and you are given a cushioning allowance for a week. We want their salaries to go by the interbank. That is all we are asking for – nothing less, nothing more - fair play because they introduced the interbank and said this is the currency of the day. No head was put to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to choose the RTGS but he brought it up himself.
What are austerity measures? Zimbabwe’s meaning of austerity measures means that you must suffer. A good doctor is the one that heals a patient who is in the ICU. I will repeat - a good doctor is the one that will cure a patient in ICU and not when they die. Austerity measures in this country means that everyone must die. All are in ICU – the civil servants, the war veterans, the Members of Parliament except the Executive which is not in ICU. So austerity measures about buying drugs too to get these people to survive. Obama did it in America when he had austerity measures on him, he pumped more money into industry and then industry started producing money and that money was used to revive everything. Who says austerity measures means that you must punish?
You need to pump money into industry so that we get more money at the end of the day and those are also austerity measures but we cannot have a situation where we talk about austerity measures which are not working. The TSP, Vision 2010 - does it not need to be reviewed? We had ZIM ASSET, 10-Point plan and we now have TSP and we move quietly without review What was the problem with ZIM ASSET? No one ever sat down to see what the problem was but we all knew it was implementation. It is a good model and the cake must grow big. I was foolish in that I also decided not to get a car because I wanted
Willowvale Motor Industry to do it in 2013. Not that I do not want a car but I believed in ZIM ASSET because it was going to now get cars manufactured here. I went to Willowvale Motor Industry to put an order and I never got the car. I lost a car because I believed in ZIM ASSET.
Then we went to the 10-Point plan, what came about it? Now, we have the TSP and we are talking about us being on course for the 2030
Vision instead of the Minister saying ...
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, your time is
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move that the time be extended.
HON. CHIKWINYA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Members. I am indebted to you, as such I will move the agenda so that your welfare is taken care of.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you talk about TSP 2030, are we on course in 2030? We had Cyclone Idai and with like Cyclone Idai, it is an opportunity for you to say what we had budgeted for we can no longer meet because with had this accident; it was an opportune time. Because of that, we have to move back. We had a drought and if we have a drought again in 2019/2020 season, we are finished.
What am I saying? Hon. Chinotimba mentioned the point that we sit on coupons and there is no fuel. Hon. Chinotimba, that is better. We want to talk about agriculture and there is no energy. So lack of energy, the 18 ours we talk about, how much does that affect production? The technocrats in the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development have done nothing to advise the Minister that as a result of the power shortages, the economy comes down and there can never be a surplus. The technocrats are misleading the Minister, they go to meetings noting down nothing. How can we say that the economy will grow when we have got Cyclone Idai, when we have a drought, when we have 18 hours of no power? The miners are not mining; gold production has gone down unless we are the only country which has some miracle whereby without electricity, we can still perform. Just this weekend, if you followed, I was with some spirit mediums that had come to Norton to do some rituals there which I respect because if in Rome I do what the Romans do.
They asked for the Member of Parliament to come and I took a video and they said this country, as long as you do not respect us, you recognised war veterans in the Constitution but who fought the war with the war veterans? You talk about Mbuya Nehanda and Sekuru Kaguvi but you do not talk about us in your Constitution. They said tirikuvhara zvinhu – [Laughter.] – tirikuvhara zvinhu because the Constitution does not recognise spirit mediums but we talk about Mbuya Nehanda. I have no answer and they said here is the Constitution, show us in the Constitution where it talks about spirit mediums. You have won the struggle and you have forgotten about the role that we played. You are being given Chiefs’ cars but who are the people who give the Chiefs their power? So, there is any issue of tradition and culture. You might laugh about it but this is the truth. For as long as you are talking about graves of people that died that have not been exhumed and taken to where they should be buried; the spirits of the country are not happy, when they are not happy they say even this Cyclone Idai, we could have controlled it but we allowed it to come so that you learn.
They say now you want us to be reporting to you as Government, so it is an issue whether you believe it or not it is up to you. They told me go and tell your colleagues that as long as the spirit mediums are not respected in the country, they will be problems.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to move to command agriculture.
Command agriculture being a noble cause that it is, I totally agree with Hon. Chinotimba that it means nothing. The amount of foreign currency that will be spend without us having an answer to the rainfall pattern, we are wasting time. The Minister did not talk about how much money we spend on cloud seeding..
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Member.
HON. T. MLISWA: You should have reminded me five minutes
before. Let me just wind up Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I ask that the Hon. Members
time, this is from unlikely source but I ask his time to be extended – [Laughter.]– by 10 minutes.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will not allow the Hon.
Member to proceed, your time is up - [AN HON. MEMBER:
Vanozivana.] -
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, on the situation where if we
do not know the rainfall pattern, there is no point to do agriculture, we might as well use that money to import maize until we put the right systems. Put irrigation and cloud seeding, there was no money for cloud seeding in the budget and there was no money to pay off electricity that we owe. In summary, for as long as we do not have money for cloud seeding, let us forget about agriculture and put all the necessary frameworks in place and if we do not offset the electricity money that we owe, I did not see the Ministry of Energy getting any money to pay off that. So, as a result, these are the fundamentals which must come first before the economy takes off. I thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity. I am hoping that the technocrats, wherever they are, they have listened and they will advise the Minister wisely.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for allowing me
to add my voice in terms of the budget review that was given by the Hon. Minister of Finance on the 1st of August 2019. Mr. Speaker, I want to start by pointing out that when the Budget and Finance Committee did submit its report last year in the original budget, everybody said no the report was not correct. In reality Mr. Speaker, all the things that were said by the Budget and Finance Portfolio Committee of this House were proved to be true. All the indicators that were raised, some of them remained up to date. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Minister in his budget just as mentioned by others has got a proposition to say that they want to rebase inflation, they want a situation where Zimbabwe statistics does not produce year on year inflation.
Mr. Speaker, we are faced with a bleak future if we allow the
Minister to do such a thing primarily because if people do not get the ZIMSTATS official rates, then people will be forced to listen to other sources just like Hon. Mhona said. We have to do the Old Mutual employed rate or we have to listen, proffer and others and that is actually not right for this economy. The other aspect Mr. Speaker that I believe is very crucial is that there have been a lot of monies that have been poured and there is a proposal of the table rights in this budget review to put quite a huge chunk of money to command agriculture.
Now the Minister said they have to come up with a transparency manner. It is known that we have actually put more than 3 billion into command agriculture. The worst part of it, I know small scale farmers who have applied to benefit under the command agriculture. They are given fertiliser today and the next lot they are not given or they will be given after harvest time. Why does the Minister of Finance not do the honourable thing and what is the honourable thing? When we got independent, we had AFC which we then turned into Agribank a bank that is owned 100% by the Government of Zimbabwe. This is a bank that is supposed to fund agricultural activities. There is no other better and transparent manner than putting resources to Agribank so that those farmers that are straight, want to do farming, to repay back the money should be given the money through Agribank rather than to allow a system which people do not know how it operates.
Mr. Speaker, I then want to go on one of the things that I find very difficult to understand. If you look at all these allocations that are there, the Office of the President and Cabinet were awarded an increment of 169%, Parliament of Zimbabwe was awarded 68%. Now if you check the Blue Book, the Office of the President will now have 794 million dollars, Parliament of Zimbabwe will have 243 million dollars.
However, if you then go into the details under the Office of the President and Cabinet budget, 210 million is allocated to special projects; it is just said special activities, just 30 million short of the entire Parliamentary budget. You then start to wonder, even if you then check which other Votes were given very little money. The Auditor General was only awarded a mere 91% Vote. In a country where a lot of corruption, a lot of misdemeanors are being committed - just look at the Auditor
General’s report, be it in the appropriations accounts, be it in the State enterprises, in the local authorities, a lot of corruption is happening.
Now, what type of a budget is this where the entities that are supposed to do oversight are not given sufficient resources to do the work? Hon. Mliswa talked about the Parliamentary Vote, what about the Auditor-General’s Office? At one point, we wanted forensic reports in each and every entity including some of the ministries to be done. The Auditor General needs to employ other staff members competent for that matter for her office to do the work but there is little that has been given. If you then compare, look at what they did in the Ministry of Transport; the Ministry has been given a huge amount of money and in a normal situation we would not have a problem with it. We have got ZINARA under Ministry of Transport; ZINARA has got resources that are meant to cater for most of the roads but 23% of the money collected by ZINARA goes to roads and the rest just evaporates in thin air.
The Minister of Finance in his wisdom decides to be the one that announces that we are now going to increase toll gates from ZWL$2 to 10 dollars for a small vehicle. It is so disappointing because we know that 20% of the toll gates that we will be paying is going to go to a company called UNIVEN. In fact, out of the 10 dollars that we are being asked to approve, 2 dollars is going to a company called UNIVEN and the other money we do not know where it goes to. It is even worse when you know that the amount that is the increase, even on motor vehicle licences; the people who are going to celebrate is a company called UNIVEN because they get 40% of that money. What type of a country are we that allow those things to happen? Also, the other problem that we now have is the creation of a super Minister. Why should the Minister of Finance be the one that comes to announce the increase of ZESA tariffs. Why not allow ZESA and the Ministry of Energy, Hon. Chasi to do that?
I represent a high density constituency; do you know the effect of non-availability of electricity in Dzivarasekwa? Instead of ZESA and Ministry of Finance, to progressively increase tariffs so that we will be in a position to import some electricity - right now, people in Dzivarasekwa are forced to buy gas at high prices. They are forced to buy charcoal at high prices. If you go to the peri-urban areas, people are now cutting all the trees to make fire food to an extent of even cutting fruit trees like mangoes and the like so that they can cook food for their families because we do not have electricity for more than 18 hours per day. We get electricity around 2300 hrs and goes around 0400 hrs. Mr. Speaker Sir, this is not right and we should not allow this thing to go on like that.
If you look at the budget for the Foreign Affairs Ministry, the bulk of the money goes for hiring and renting. More than $200 million is channeled to that issue. I believe that where we are at the moment, we are faced with a dilemma as a country; we are going deeper into trouble.
The GDP growth, the Minister said it is going to be below -2% and Hon.
Biti said it is likely to be around -8, 5%. There is no justification for the
Minister of Finance to boast that ‘I am the first Minister to record a surplus’ when we all know that there is a lot of money that is owed. We know for instance that here at Parliament there are certain bills that we have not yet paid. We have not paid hotels, other suppliers and a lot of things and then somebody boasts and say we have got a surplus. If you are a Minister of Finance, your people are the ones who are supposed to actually boast, the people on the ground. There used to be an advert when Cold Storage was still functional that nyama inonaka inotaura yega. When an economy is functioning, you do not need to be told because people will actually say it. Where we are; we have a huge challenge which I think needs to be looked into.
Finally, on positive things that I realised is probably the allocation of additional funding to the Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission; my only hope is that the money will be released urgently rather than to have a budget where we give a lot of money which in real terms does not arrive at the intended destination. If we were to give the money then hopefully we maybe in a position to arrest this animal called corruption that has taken Zimbabwe by storm.
I also then want to end by commenting in terms of the salaries of the civil servants. You cannot have an economy where everything is going up and then you want us to approve a budget with less than 40% salary increment for civil servants. You cannot then accuse them if they just go there, put their jackets on chairs and do other personal things. If you do not pay your workers, if you pretend to be taking care of your workers they will also pretend to be working. – [HON. MRMBERS: Hear, hear.] - When that happens it shows that we are regressing and not going forward. The first and foremost thing that you need to do is to pay your workers adequately. If we need to rationalize, to simply say we need 20 people instead of 30 people in a department, let it be so. Pay those ones their retrenchment packages and make sure that those that remain are paid adequately so that this country can move.
Mr. Speaker, Zimbabwe is in a sorry state. If you go to other countries that were behind Zimbabwe in terms of development, you will be shocked. Countries that were way back behind Zimbabwe have now overtaken us. To that extend, it is my hope that the Minister of Finance will be in a position to adjust when we go to Committee Stage. I thank you.
*HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me an opportunity to debate on the budget. On agriculture and Command Agriculture, they have been given enough money. I wish they would have separated the budget and allocated to women in farming. As women, we are affected because men are taking a big chunk on the budget given for Command Agriculture.
On irrigation, a lot of money was given to various irrigation schemes including the Bubi irrigation which is the area that I come from.
This scheme was allocated $350 000 which is not enough. We want this money to be increased. If money is put into irrigation, we must see a difference. The $350 000 is not enough even to repair anything. The budget for irrigation must be increased and the irrigation allocation for my area should also be increased.
On CDF, the amount has been increased to $183 000. The figure looks as it is enough but if we convert it to the US$, it is US$23 000.
This is very difficult. It was US$50 000 before and now it is very little.
For progress to be evident in our constituencies, we need more money as Members of Parliament. This money is not enough to make changes in our constituencies. We want this money to be increased.
War veterans have been complaining since 1980. The problem is that they are not getting significant increments. If they are paid enough money, they will not keep on complaining. I thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate.
Firstly, I would like to talk about electricity – taking a look at the budget before us, it is talking about increasing the electricity rate by
273%. Over and above that, the Government has increased toll gates by 500%. Vehicle licensing has been increased by 420%. This is unfair on the people. Civil servants who are rendering service have not been looked after very well because their salaries do not match this. In terms of their salaries, the increase is roughly 30-40%.
Looking at the different services such as electricity, diesel, transport costs and looking at the salaries that civil servants are getting; it does not tally at all. If you interrogate this further, the Minister has to address this. We are wasting money advocating for an increase in civil servants salaries but the Government itself is aware of the fact that on the things that they are doing in terms of service delivery, they are raising the cost by 10 times yet the salaries of civil servants are not being considered by that 100%. I am of the view that before this budget is passed, we need to address the issue of the salaries of civil servants.
Looking at the Members of Parliament, they are still getting the same salary they were getting in 2008 – the only difference is that it was in US$ and now it is in RTGs. In 2010, the rate was 1:1 to the US$ but now it is converted using the interbank rate which is accepted by the Government that for every US$, it is RTGS$9.4.
An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the Hon.
Member speaking.
HON. PHULU: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, when a member crosses and blocks your view and that of the Member debating, the rules are clear. The Member should go round and all of us do. We think that this is something that you should address.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon Speaker. I
thought he would go behind him. I am sorry, I did not see him. You can proceed Hon. Member.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The interbank
rate now stands at 9.4 and the black market rate is on 13.5 but this is money that is being given to MPs in Parliament – the same amount which they were given in 2010. This has no dignity in line with the interbank rate. That is what is availed to all civil servants without the interbank rate. This should be considered by our Minister that we address issues to do with salaries.
We also have an issue of free duty, especially looking at people with disabilities. One of the MPs debated saying that the money for war veterans who fought the liberation war, including my father though he passed away; he fought the liberation struggle. The money that they are getting has lost value and it is not assisting them in any way. Hon. Speaker; Hon. Minister, the issue of them accessing medical services is a challenge. The war veterans, considering the sacrifice that they made during the war, the way they lived and what they went through- they now have certain ailments that are now permanent but the hospitals that they go to access medical attention are poor. They should be accessing medical care from specialised hospitals in order to address the challenges they faced during the war. You find that they are taken to hospitals that are ill-equipped and cannot access the level of injury.
Some of the hospitals do not even have doctors, yet they are war veterans.
The war veterans cannot even afford bus fare to go and access medical services. We come here and we want to talk about Supplementary Budget yet we are not taking into consideration the liberation war veterans. Hon. Speaker; Hon. Minister, war veterans as we speak in this House, have challenges in accessing funds to fend for themselves and their families. They are assisted by the community with handouts and yet they are war veterans. They cannot afford to go and collect their pensions. The pension is inadequate and if they get money to go to the bank, they are told the money is not available. They live in queues and sleep at banks yet they are our war veterans. We are not considering the war veterans at all. They are just like me, my father was a liberation war veteran and I was at home. For a person who is a war veteran, there should be a difference because they are in a different grade; they liberated this country. For us to be where we are today is because of them. The Minister does not acknowledge this sacrifice.
On the issue of bread, the way we are living in this country, we have got to a point whereby bread is now a luxury. Bread is a need, people should be able to get bread to eat; sadza in the afternoon and in the evening with good relish but in Zimbabwe, the average person cannot afford bread. Yes, we are talking about the civil servants, the war veterans cannot even afford a proper diet although they faced challenges in accessing good food during war, now they are in a liberated country but still they cannot get good food. A war veteran lives his life and died without even the provision of good funeral services. This should be addressed in the Supplementary Budget. This should not wait for next year. Before the budget is passed, this issue needs to be incorporated so that next month we can be at peace knowing that the war veterans’ welfare is taken care of without any challenges.
We have also the issue of Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The reason why CDF was introduced was to improve the services of our constituencies. We started the CDF project in 2008; in South Africa,
Zambia and Kenya, they did not have CDF. They pluck a leaf from the Government of Zimbabwe but they improved on that CDF project and it is now more attractive. Currently we are talking of CDF and we are given RTGS$50 000 and we got RTGS$80 000 in the Supplementary Budget. What is RTGS$80 000, with the current inter-bank rate known by the Hon. Minister and the Speaker and all of us here, a person is getting US$9 000 in order to develop the constituency.
In Kenya if I am correct, an MP with a constituency is given US$1 million to develop his/her constituency. In Zambia an MP with a constituency is getting more than US$250 000 in order to develop the constituency and we are talking about RTGS$80 000, which is actually a challenge to even access it. We are talking of this money being in bond. Before a Supplementary Budget is passed, we should set the RTGS$80
000 and with the difficulties that we are facing that I see, we change the
RTGS$80 000 to inter-bank rate and we passed a budget at the
RTGS$80 000 using the inter-bank rate. So, RTGS$80 000 times 10, we are looking at about RTGS$1 million that MPs should be given for CDF so that constituencies can progress. That is not a lot of money.
I am concluding my debate; the Hon. Minister of Finance should seriously consider the salaries of civil servants as well as the employees of Parliament. The Parliament staff, the money that they are being given in terms of salaries is embarrassing. Sometimes they leave this place at night. Right now they are here, the Hansard Reporters are here, the
Security team is here, ZUPCO will have gone and they end up using Parliament vehicles which do not even leave them at their gates. The money that they are getting is not even worth anything. They cannot even buy sweets to sell in order to increase their salaries because their salary is next to nothing.
Parliament employees should be considered. Our duty in terms of oversight, representation and legislation, the Parliament employees should get a salary increase. Here at Parliament, it is not by choice that they are here. They end up selling sweets, having societies; they have different small projects because they are living in poverty. They cannot even afford lunch, although it is subsidised, they still cannot afford it. They come with lunch boxes with bread that is made at home which is sub-standard. Some of our Parliament employees bring rice with tomato soup and that is their lunch.
Imagine bringing rice that was cooked yesterday; put in a plastic container with tomato soup and have it as your food. For you to wait for Parliament to do research and even report, that is food poisoning that is slowly taking place and slowly killing our Parliament employees. This issue needs to be addressed. The Parliament employees’ remuneration should be attended to. So, we cannot just pass the budget, we need to first amend the supplementary budget and ensure that our employees get salaries that restore their dignity.
Let us not say Parliament has been given $20 million or $80 million, we should talk about Parliament employees getting $2000,
$3000 or $4000, let us not look at percentages that are confusing people. We want to talk of figures. If we are saying that Members of Parliament should get a salary increment, let us not look at 30% or 40%. You must say that Hon. Saruwaka, Hon. Musabayana or the Speaker of Parliament is getting so much. Percentages are not working because everything is
in shambles. The Government employee, the civil servants – we should talk of the inter-bank rate and not the percentages because that is not a fair game. We want fair play.
I want to thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank the Members of Parliament from both political parties in this House for listening to me and respecting me as I spoke. I want to thank the Hon. Member of Parliament Hon. Mliswa for listening to me as I was debating. Hon. Members, the budget is not in line with the expectations of the nation. When you look at the civil servants, Parliament staff and also Members of Parliament and other services of this country, this budget is not addressing the challenges in Zimbabwe. The budget should not be passed until we have reached a consensus that we are now addressing the challenges in this country.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of the defence forces and the security sector; let us not talk of a soldier or a police officer being given a cushion above other civil servants, we do not want to be giving them cushioning allowance in order to get their respect. Cushioning allowance is a term that is used to exploit others. The soldier and police officer should be given adequate salaries with dignity so that when holding the gun, they do it with dignity.
You should do away with cushioning allowances. When something is being given a cushion – if a patient becomes too sick, they make a cushion to assist that person. So, that cushioning allowance is a way of assisting a person who is ailing, we are not sick, what cushion do we need in this case? I thank you Mr. Speak.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. You had ruled that the Minister was going to be back in 40 minutes. I am not seeing the Minister here despite the fact that we are now an hour after that. I am simply following up on the pronouncement which you made. Is there going to be a new pronouncement and what time should we give the Minister for him to be in the House?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. I
trust that the Minister is coming and the officials and Hansard are recording.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for awarding me the chance to contribute to the Mid-Term Budget presented by the –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order!
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for awarding me a chance to contribute to the Mid-Term Budget presented by the Hon.
Minister of Finance and Economic Development. I take a special look at Section 62 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which provides for the right to access information and it reads; “Every Zimbabwean citizen or permanent resident, including juristic persons and the Zimbabwean media, has the right of access to any information held by the State or by any institution or agency of Government at every level, in so far as the information is required in the interests of public accountability.” However, in his Statement, the Minister announced that the publishing of the year on year inflation figures will be deferred until February, 2020 as measures of inflation rebasing.
If you look at page 20, paragraph 54, it reads, “the change in the currency regime for multicurrency to Zimbabwean dollar has definitely impacted on the base for calculation of CPI indices and hence, inflation, while building up data of prices in mono-currency for a period of 12 months to February 2020. This will ensure that we compare like with like in terms of currency regimes.” We take that paragraph and go back to the Constitution to the free access of information for every citizen of
Zimbabwe. By so doing, is that not a violation of the provisions of the Constitution and the general principles of public accountability necessary for various sectors to adjust accountability?
We go to the tariffs increased for ZESA; you try to understand what the rationale was of increasing the prices from 300% to 500%. We do not produce most of the power that we use. If you look at the domestic consumption, they are going to be charged about 3 cents and the companies which do not produce are going to be charged about 5 cents. The cost of electricity in the region is about 14 cents, this means that we are still going to subsidise. The perception out there in the corridors – every citizen looks at the increase that was done on electricity, it has got to go hand in hand with the lowering of load shedding. Right now we are trying to improve our economy in production, without power cuts, 18 hours and now ZESA has increased by about 500% and we are agro-based. All the wheat right now that the farmers had put on the ground is drying, that means next season we are not going to have bread, there is going to be nothing but we have increased all the prices. What was the rationale of increasing the prices when we are still going to subsidise them?
The smelting companies’ cost was not increased and it is said they are going to be charged in hard currency which is going to be ringfenced. Who is going to monitor those kinds of resources. We have had incidents whereby resources that have been reinfenced have been abused and yet these reinfenced resources are said to be only there to buy electricity. What measures has the Minister put in place to make sure that the resources that are going to be reinfenced are going to be solely used to import electricity?
In his mid-term budget, he said he has been able to balance the current account. We applaud him for that, but does it show on the ground? It does not show. We are talking of bread and butter issues. We are not just talking that okay, a father is claiming that in the bank there is so much money, our current account has so much money and yet the children are suffering on the ground. What is the use of being able to balance the current account when the Zimbabwe masses are suffering, when the industry is dying?
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. I think it is important for people to be quiet. There is too much noise, Mr. Speaker Sir. It is quite disappointing that if it is Hon. Mutomba, yourself or any other Chair other than the Speaker, there seems to be some sort of disrespect which is not good. I think we must respect the Chair when they are there. It is important. I think especially members from the ruling party, it is important for us to respect the Chair when they are in Chair and you do that by speaking quietly and whispering to each other, not making noise like you are at a rally.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa, I felt
comfortable with the little noise that was coming out. Sorry if it affected you otherwise, I thought everything was okay. That is why I thanked Hon. Members for listening to one another, but please can you lower your voices.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. All that I am just trying to highlight is that the Minister has to be sensitive and address the basic bread and butter issues that the common person on the street is going through as was said by the Hon. Member of Parliament about the civil servants, the war veterans and the Parliamentarians so that we can be able to curb corruption. You can see corruption here also in Parliament because we are also starving. Everyone here is driving on empty. So, we are just saying the Minister must just address the bread and butter issues. That is what any Zimbabwean person is looking up to the Minister.
If you look at the budgets that you allocated, even what Hon.
Chikwama said, the amounts that were allocated to rehabilitation of roads leaves a lot to be desired. We are not saying they did not put much thought into it, but the budget really falls short of what the common man on the street was expecting. We really expect the Minister to listen to what the Parliamentarians are saying and make sure that he amends before we can pass the budget. Thank you.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. May I add my voice to this budget as presented by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
We applaud the Minister, Mr. Speaker Sir, for bringing the midterm fiscal policy review and attempting, all be it very optimistically, trying to address the challenges bedeviling this country. I will just comment on a few areas of concern some of which have already been touched on. I will just try and be brief.
The issue of giving the nation the impression that there is a surplus when there is a deficit tends to mislead not only the nation, but ourselves as well because we give ourselves a false sense of hope. I give practical examples - in the constituencies where we come from daily, we are bombarded with requests for assistance by Government institutions because their funds have not been released. So actually, it is constrained expenditure. I think the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development must admit that expenditure has been extremely constrained in this country, so there is no surplus really to talk about.
The second point that I want to emphasise, Hon. Speaker Sir, is the issue of very casual attention to the issue of drought bedeviling the southern parts of the country. Not only was he silent about providing stock feed for livestock and water provision in the drought prone areas, it is so conspicuous by its absence. Livestock farmers are losing cattle already and some are actually parting with their cattle for as little as $200 all because there is no stock feed.
Earlier in the session we requested the Hon. Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement to explain what measures he was taking to mitigate the drought situation and we were assured that they were going to be cutting hay. When we followed up we were told that there is no money for this programme, but on the ground, on this budget, there is nothing that has been said about livestock, let alone water for humans and livestock in the southern drought prone regions.
Thirdly, the issue of irrigation schemes - some irrigation schemes that were appearing in the original Blue Book in the southern part of the country are missing in this review. We do not know what has happened to that money and we do not know why those irrigation schemes are actually now being neglected and yet that is where they are needed most. We require irrigation schemes virtually everywhere in the country and meaningful allocations to be made for irrigation schemes. Allocating $250 000 or thereabouts is peanuts because if you read, that amount is less than US$30 000 and for irrigation schemes that is too little.
The fourth issue is roads infrastructure. ZINARA is making a lot of money from toll gates but that money is not visible on the ground and that money if it were visible, we would be seeing more roads being covered in this budget. Maybe the figures are shown elsewhere, but in this book nothing is shown in constituencies in the southern part of the country save for a few – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] -
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Hon. Mliswa
you spoke and people listened to you. May you also listen to others. Thank you.
HON. MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The next
very important area of concern is the issue about travelling and subsistence allowances for the Zimbabwe Republic Police when they are on border patrol or other patrols. We know that failure to provide for the police when they are doing their patrol duty fuels corruption yet nothing significant has been allocated to the police for their travelling and subsistence expenses. We request that this issue be addressed as a matter of urgency.
The next one is war veterans. This issue has been touched on by Hon. Chinotimba and Hon. Mutseyami. Unfortunately, they have all scratched the surface. We have just been conducting public hearings on the plight of war veterans. They earn an equivalent of maybe just less than two coupons per month in terms of their salaries. Medical bills are going unpaid, funeral expenses are going unpaid two or three years after the death of the spouses. Children’s fees are not being paid and their health or medical bills are not being paid. They just do not have housing. If you compare war veterans in South Africa and Namibia - we have also seen the statistics, Zimbabwe war veterans are earning about 10% of what their counterparts get, if not less. So we shall be presenting a full report.
So Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development, better be prepared to have a massive grand plan when the full Budget for 2020 is presented. I touched on this issue briefly because other Hon.
Members have already talked about it. Money is required there. On CDF, what Hon. Members did not mention is the issue about constituency offices. Hon. MPs require funding to run constituency offices. They need constituency staff, they require research facilities, they produce and send documents and even the airtime. They are using their personal airtime for these facilities. We believe that constituencies we run cannot depend on our meagre salaries as Members of Parliament. We therefore think that the Hon. Minister of Finance needs to pay particular attention to the areas we have touched upon. I thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me start by commending the Minister for bringing the Supplementary Budget to Parliament, something which is a break from the past. It has to be noted Mr. Speaker Sir, that last year, the Government spent US$3.2 billion without coming to Parliament for condonation. I want to first, touch on the TSP...
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. Maybe people did not see that the Minister of Finance is now in the House. We thank the Minister of Finance for coming back. In case people did not see him coming in, he is now in the House because people were saying where is he. The Minister of Finance is back. I am just acknowledging that people were looking for you but it is good to see you that you are back.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Speaker Sir, with
your permission, thank you for allowing me. Yes, I am back. I had gone out for an hour because we were launching the Humanitarian
Appeal Programme today with the Executive Director of the World Food Programme, Mr David Beasley. I had to walk out to come back here. The United States has already pledged US$45 million today – [HON. T. MLISWA: That was a very good break.] – A very good break indeed. Within an hour, US$45 million from the United States and an additional 11 million Euros from the European Union and more from the Chinese Government and additional from the UK Government, in cash and kind. I thank you – [HON. T. MLISWA: It was a good break. We give you another break for an hour.] –
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. First, I would like to touch on the transitional stabilisation programme. The Hon.
Minister reports that in the first two quarters, there was an estimated
$5.5 billion in terms of revenue into the Government coffers. He goes
on to say that the surplus was $800 million. Mr. Speaker Sir, my problem with this is it does not take into context the fact that when we passed the first Budget, when these projections were made – because the initial projection in October was, we were going to have $4.1 billion in terms of revenue in the first six months. The truth was this money was quoted in US dollars as some other speakers have said. This is a gross misinterpretation of the revenues that we were receiving as a country. If you calculate this, it means we have received something like US$400 million in the first six months of the year.
I want to go on Mr. Speaker Sir to agriculture. There has been $3.3 billion appropriated to agriculture for the remainder of the year. It has to be noted Mr. Speaker Sir that since the inception of command agriculture in 2016, the Government has been spending about $1.1 billion a year on command agriculture without putting it in the books of the Government. It has to be noted Mr. Speaker Sir, that over a billion was spent last year on command agriculture outside of the Ministry of
Agriculture’s Budget. This $1 billion was not approved by Parliament.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if this $1 billion was transparently used, we would be able to import the necessities that we need like maize, wheat, soya beans and all the essential grains that we need to feed this country. My hope Mr. Speaker Sir, is that the money be given directly to the Ministry of
Agriculture because what has happened in the past was the Ministry of Finance has a habit of directly paying to the people owed the money without informing the Ministry of Agriculture. We do not know whether they correctly appropriated, correctly spent or directed the money to the people who are supposed to be receiving it. The Supplementary of $3.3 billion must be given to the Ministry of Agriculture and they must pay their suppliers by themselves.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to touch again on the plight of the civil servants. I know many people have talked about the plight of civil servants. The truth Mr. Speaker Sir, the civil servants have now become second-class citizens in this country. First, you have to note how almost every service has been increased by 500%. You talk about the tollgates
– 500%, licence plate – 500% and if you want to get a licence, it is now 500%. I want to ask a very honest question to the Minister, whether this 500% is also going to be added and remunerated to civil servants and pensioners, which is extremely important if you are looking in terms of their welfare. We would expect that there would be a significant increment to civil servants, pensioners and as everyone in the House who spoke here has mentioned that there is need to look into the Budget of Parliament, which has paltry increase.
I just want to say, in closing Mr. Speaker Sir that it appears to me that the Hon. Minister takes this country to be some massive hub where he can try to experiment his college theoretical economics. That must stop. That will not work. It is time that we look at the welfare of this country, people who are suffering today with no electricity and no water.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to talk about water. Water is a basic human right in accordance to the UN General Assembly and I want to say Mr. Speaker, I have not seen anywhere in the Budget where it talks about improving the infrastructure of our water reticulation systems. I want to say, most of the water works in this country – I will use my constituency Marondera as an example, that was built in 1975 during the Smith regime and the population was 20 thousand. We are now in 2019 Mr. Speaker Sir and the population is now 100 thousand. The population has gone fivefold but we are still using the same infrastructure. This is not only in Marondera but also across the country. There is drastic need to ensure that we do and we must ensure that people get clean and safe water. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker.
HON. MUSAKWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to add my contribution to the Mid-Term Fiscal Review by the Minister of Finance. I need to take note of a few issues. The first one relates to production. You see that the Minister is projecting to raise a further $10. 3 billion as supplementary financing for the budget but there is no detail as to how that is going to be done vis-a-vis the serious challenges his main revenue streams are facing, mainly industry where you do not have electricity, fuel, you have people laying down staff and all that. There is no detail. We need more detail on how he is going to stimulate production.
If you look at it, I think now you need a combination of austerity and serious viability stimulants. Look at the Ministry of Industry which you think is going to drive that stimulus for industry. You look at the industrial growth and development budget allocation, there is only $18 million there and nothing much can be done with that budgetary heading. There is the economic empowerment headline under the same Ministry of Industry, there is only $3,87 million allocated there which is too small for stimulating production.
Then you have on the issue of the disaster caused by Cyclone Idai, you see it under Ministry of Agriculture, there is an allocation there for irrigation schemes. I come from a district where we lost five people, reported deaths and massive destruction of infrastructure, including schools and health institutions. You find that out of 14 budgeted for irrigation projects, Bikita only has one which is Chipendeke which has been allocated $0,5 million. I think there is need for revision because that district experienced a big chunk of destruction under the Cyclone
Idai.
You look again at the repairs to the cyclone damaged infrastructure of primary schools. There is only $22 million allocated and when you come from a district such as Bikita where you have got over 30 schools which were ravaged, this can hardly repair five schools. I think there is need for revision on that. On the secondary schools budget, there is only $1,9 million provided to rehabilitate schools. I do not think that is enough. More needs to be done.
So, you look at most of the challenges that we are facing now, it is because of the international isolation we have as a result of sanctions. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs which is supposed to drive that reengagement process has only been allocated $1,2 million for travel. I think there is need for revision for that amount. You need more money under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade as they are driving the re-engagement process. At the moment, I will end there because we do not need the sanctions so we need to allocate more money so that we re-engage. Thank you.
*HON. B. DUBE: My first issue is to highlight that the first budget which we did was in US$ and if now we are to do a supplementary budget in the new currency, there is a lot of stealing compared to the budgets which were given to the ministries and institutions in US$. I feel that the country has lost a lot of money through the Ministry of Finance. The issue of stealing people’s money needs to be investigated. I want to quickly highlight what is on page 12. There is an issue on people with disabilities. It is allocated money to a total amount of $8, 370 million. People who are disabled are 10% of our population and these are the people who are living a very difficult life. You need an extra person to push you on wheelchair. If you are visually impaired, you need an aide zvichingofamba zvakadaro. The Braille is more expensive than the actual bond. So, if we are saying of the 10% of the Zimbabwean population, we are talking on average about 1,3 – 1,5 people and the amount allocated to cater for their special needs cannot help much.
I also want to look at the budget that was allocated to the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. I do not see where this allocation will get to, especially the amount on increments of pensions. Why it is important Mr. Speaker is that when pension was availed in small amounts, it was on the assumption that once a person gets to the pensionable age of 55 years, it was meant to be just money for pension to enjoy the years that he worked but because of unemployment of the people, the pension is now being used to pay for all the services. The pension was ranging at $70. If they want to revise the pension as has been said by the other Hon. Members that we should not just look at the increase of pensions in terms of pensions but they need to be reviewed in line with the Poverty Datum Line.
So Minister, we do not want the issue of pensions to be dealt with in the abstract, taking it as a pension for an old person to enjoy but this is primary money for an aged person. So, my request in terms of pensioners is that this pension should be increased in order to cater for the needs of our people who are looking after children. Most of them
yes, looked after their children but those who are finishing school are not getting jobs and end up being looked after by those on pension.
Furthermore, on page number 65 which looks at the Ministry of
Women’s Affairs. I will take you to page 67, on the first budget, the one that we intend to supplement now, we had availed US$10 million to the
Zimbabwe Women’s Microfinance Bank. That is the amount that we availed and the debate was that money was actually not adequate for the needs of the women. Initially there was $10 million. I talked about theft at first but I said that our first budget was a stolen one. The $10 million that we are talking about has been increased by $6 million to take it to $16 million. However, if you use the interbank rate, I think it is 1:10, it comes back to $1.6 million if we are to divide by ten. What it means is that the bank that we assumed would assist the women has lost over 8 million from the previous budget but what surprises me is that it is not the only point. You went further and looked at SMEs Development Corporation and availed $6 million and you have increased this by $12 million to make it $18 million. Still this is not a true reflection because that money will be divided by ten. My real issue Minister is that I do not know where you are getting your information because the Women Affairs, Small and Medium Enterprises Development came up with an agenda that if we capitalise our bank, it will be viable but it seems you are actually going contrary to what they want. In the earlier budget, people wanted the bank to spearhead financial inclusion but you are reversing the issue of availing more capital to the bank in order to formalise their sector. It seems you are reducing the amount required. You seem to be prioritising development agenda giving $18 million in bond to SMEDCO and yet we wanted more money towards the bank which was supposed to spearhead development. So, I want to say that the Minister should be in line with the priorities of the institutions which you deal with rather than just decide to draw us back as you please.
I am not going to reiterate the issue of war veterans except to support and concur with Hon. Chinotimba and Hon. Mutseyami. I want to go to page 90 which is looking at the Council of Chiefs. I am deeply concerned with the confirmation that we always get that the Ministry of Finance has no special consideration and respect for traditional leaders. Why we continue to advocate for empowerment of the traditional leaders is because they have an important role to play in the communities. They are being manipulated because they are financially crippled and for that reason, politicians do whatever they want with them. They are not able to take the Constitution and use it because they do not have money. If you look at page 90 of the Blue Book, council ofchiefs – what it means is that if you take a look, it was allocated a substantial amount. The original vote shows that it was better but working it out, I realised they have been prejudiced and are now running a loss. What that means is that the Minister of Finance, in line with page 90 is an accomplice in undermining the role of the chiefs and the abuse of chiefs because they are underfunding these chiefs. We want our chiefs to be independent but they can only be independent once funds are availed. So, on page 90, Minister, we do not have a challenge with you sourcing funds for our chiefs in order to get resources to run their communities.
On page 91, the Human Rights Commission has an important role to play in terms of the history of Zimbabwe if you look at why it was established in 2013. When I realised that the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development has deliberately not availed funds to that
Commission. If you look at the budget for the Human Rights
Commission, it does not show seriousness on his part. Initially we had $3, 335 m. He says he has increased $2 265 m for it to be $5, 900 m but what it will reflect if divided by 10, it only comes to US$59 000only. However, if you look at the decentralisation issue that the Commission has to do it also shows lack of seriousness on our part in terms of the
Commission carrying out its mandate. Even the allocation to the AntiCorruption Commission on the supplementary budget and that given to the Human Rights Commission shows that we are not prioritising the Human Rights Commission but I believe that the Commission has a very important mandate which can reduce some of the challenges that are in the various 12 Commissions. So what I am saying is that it is not possible for the Human Rights Commission to be just availed US$590 000 for it to execute its mandate. So, it is something that needs to be considered.
On page 93, on corruption, the National Prosecuting Authority has a huge role to play but currently the proposal that is being given by the Minister does not help us at all. If you are to go to various court offices, you will find the employees selling sweets as alluded to before. So, the challenge, is before you get to the judiciary offices, you should make sure you have bond notes to buy sweets. So, this issue of the welfare of prosecutors and increase of the budget should be seriously considered. Some of them are leaving work at 3.00 p.m. for them to go and join the queue for the ZUPCO buses because if they go at 5, they will not get transport. So on page 93, that allocation is not adequate.
In conclusion, I do not think that the Minister has looked at the importance of the institution before allocating money. Those should be reflected by the money that he allocates to the different institutions. This budget cannot pass in this manner. Lastly, I want to ask who actually broke that elephant horn behind the Speaker’s chair. There is something missing. I think that you had not seen it. Thank you.
HON. CHIKWINYA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. In terms of
Section 141 of our Constitution, Parliament must include the public when it is considering Bills. I am not very sure with the level of departure which Members of Parliament are expressing to the Hon.
Minister that the Hon. Minister’s budget is in one direction, the MPs are facing the other direction. Did the Hon. Minister give the Members of Parliament an opportunity to consult or the Members consulted themselves because I see ourselves wasting time being able to debate a budget which is inconsistent with the aspirations of the people. I just want to see if this budget is consistent with Section 141 of the Constitution.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. If
you refer to the mid year budget review as I have done, on page 5 on
No. 3 where it says, “to the extent possible, contributions received from various stakeholders in Government, private sector and civic organisations”, I think he is expressing that unless MPs are not part of those mentioned. The Minister is going to answer that tomorrow but I am saying that page shows that.
HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of clarification, Section 141 is
clear Hon. Speaker. It is the duty of Parliament before debating this budget to consult the public and not for the Minister to consult the public. The Minister may consult in crafting but Parliament must consult the public before debating in terms of Section 141. Thank you.
THE TEMPORATRY SPEAKER: I am saying the Minister I
think will respond tomorrow on that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of privilege. Hon. Speaker, it is very clear from all the debate that has taken place around this
Supplementary Budget…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, can you sit
down.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is a point of privilege, I am not yet done Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, you did not
follow the debate please and you are referring to the debate when you went out throughout. Can you sit down? I am not accepting your point of order. I am not accepting that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Let me take exception at your statement
that you are raising as if it is a matter of fact.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have ruled, I am not going to
allow that.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, that ruling is based on a fact Hon.
Speaker. The Hon. Speaker is insinuating.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please, we are not
going to allow that. I recorded Hon. Sibanda to be one of the speakers and he went out. He just wants to use this opportunity to speak and he is now not going to debate because he went out. Please, there is this tendency of coming here registering then you go out. I am not going to allow you to debate. Why do you think I am here?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Prof. Mthuli went out. Is he not going to speak?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: He is going to speak tomorrow.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, I am not going to allow you to do that Hon. Speaker. You cannot make a ruling on the basis of a fact because it is not a fact that I went out. I am not going to do that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - No, I have a right of audience. Leader of Government business, I have a right of audience in this House and there is no way the Speaker can simply say as a matter of fact – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - How many minutes did I go out? Did you record it down? On a point of privilege Mr.
Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I said order. Hon. Sibanda, I
am not accepting any point of privilege.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am not debating but I am rising on a point of privilege.
*HON. MADIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The issue that I want to present here is very important and that is why it is coming at the end. We are talking about the budget which has been brought by the Minister. People are talking about hunger and various problems that we are seeing. I have heard what has been said by another Hon. Member in wanting to give solutions to the problems which he says we are having. If I heard him correctly, as long as we are not given the importance, we are not going anywhere. By seeing a lot of noise which is happening and people who are refusing to get out of this House, if they respect the issues of women, they would not be doing what they are doing. This shows that our country is very behind; looking at the allocations given to women it is very low. I heard the Minister talking about supporting Government reforms; the least budget was given to the Gender
Commission. Looking at the Ministry of Women Affairs, this is the
Ministry which has been given the minimal increments. The money which has been allocated by the Minister, a lot of it is going to organisations which are supposed to be helping women. The Ministry does not have money for programming; the Ministry has no money for monitoring programmes.
We are experts in all other areas but we are failing to understand that women issues are very important. The issues I am talking about affect women. We are talking about ZESA and it affects women. The problem starts on resource allocation looking at how we view women as a country. I want to thank the Minister for the policy on sanitary wear, that it should be brought duty free into the country. As we speak people cannot afford to buy sanitary wear. Let me just read a letter received from a certain woman who is having problems. She says, “Dear Hon. Member, I am filled with sadness and sorrow in my heart as I write this letter to you. I am a woman trying to survive in the present day Zimbabwe. I have literally reached a breaking point; it is because of the current situation. The current economic hardship has made it unbearably expensive, not only for me but also the majority of citizens to even think of going on our monthly menstrual cycle. Sanitary wear has become expensive despite Government intervening on the removal of VAT and duty on all sanitary wear. The lowest one can buy sanitary pads as attached below is RTGS$11.25. In my case…” – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MADIWA: “In my case and supposedly several other women experience heavy flows which on average demand the use of RTGS$33 per month. I am left at the verge of continuously drinking family planning pills to avert my monthly flow. If not, I have been encouraged by other women to use baby pampers which are low priced than proper sanitary wear. I have been using rugs and guava pages but in the process I experience extreme pain in the cervix”.
The letter is very long but it shows that a lot of women are not accessing sanitary wear. I am saying to the Hon. Minister, if you had brought a budget - the average of RTGS$33 is needed to buy sanitary wear a month. A lot of women cannot afford that money; this is the issue I wanted to bring to your attention. If we are doing the budget, let us also look at important issues affecting women.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir,
I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 7th August, 2019.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House
adjourned at Seven Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 1st August, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE STANDING ORDERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following announcements
Hon. Mliswa – [HON. T. MLISWA: I have consistently supported the
President and I even garnered more votes than some ZANU PF Members of Parliament. Imimi maingotenderera muchiita bhora musango!] – Order, order, can you cool down Hon. Mliswa?
First announcement, I have to inform the House that the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders has circulated proposed amendments to the Standing Orders through the Members pigeonholes. Hon. Members are kindly requested to make their submission which should be deposited in Counsel to Parliament’s Office by the end of business on Thursday, 15th August, 2019.
PETITION RECEIVED
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that on
Thursday, 18th July 2019, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Mr. B. Mahwerera of the Zimbabwe Sugar Cane Growers
Association, requesting that Parliament, through the Ministry of Industry and Commerce reviews the division of proceeds on ratio formula which governs the sharing of revenue proceeds between sugar cane out growers and millers.
The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Industry and Commerce.
PRESENTATION OF THE 2019 MID-TERM FISCAL POLICY
REVIEW AND SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET STATEMENT
THE HON. SPEAKER: As announced yesterday, the Hon.
Minister of Finance and Economic Development will today present the
2019 Mid-Term Fiscal Policy Review and Supplementary Budget at
1445 hours.
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR
CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to unreservedly apologies for the remarks I made yesterday. I realise they must have caused some injury to the dignity of the Hon. Members. To that extent Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to withdraw my statement.
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Be brief because we are chasing time.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, my point of privilege is that every time and then when the Zimbabwe President who resoundingly won the election in 2018 is coming into this august House, Members of the opposition walk out or abscond and yet the next day they will come here demanding cars from Parliament of which the money is being availed by the President of the country.
So, my point of privilege is that there is supposed to be an order that says that if a Member of Parliament engages in a mass demonstration which is what they have done right now, it is a mass demonstration not coming into Parliament. They should not absent themselves when the President is coming. It does not pay for us to say we have a country and yet we are taking this country for granted. It is a challenge because the people out there think that we are not serious in doing our work because they have virtually run away from the President who is the Head of State and Government and won resoundingly in the 2018 election.
I am happy to say an independent MP – yes, he is an independent, but he has realised that there is a President although what he says is not so pleasing. Hon. Mliswa realises that there is a President in this nation.
That is why I stood up.
Currently, we were just talking about our cars. That is the debate and the noise about cars comes from the left, clamouring for the cars but when the President is coming, they do not want to come yet they expect the President to sign so that their cars can be procured. We cannot run away when the President is coming. So, they should not be entitled to benefits.
If they have a problem with the President, they should go to the courts. When we are in Parliament, we should do our Parliamentary duties. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is unfortunate that the Hon. Members of the main opposition party here in Parliament have decided to boycott this session in which His Excellency the President will be in attendance.
There are two issues that we need to put on record. The first one is that
His Excellency the President is Head of State and Government and Commander-In-Chief of the Defence Forces.
Now, there is some lack of understanding when we say the President is Head of State. The President is Head of State because he is an embodiment of the sovereignty of the people of Zimbabwe without any exclusion or discrimination. His uncontested position as Head of
State has been recognised by the United Nations and the International
Community, let alone the African Union. We have not heard of any country under the sun that has not recognised His Excellency President Mnangagwa. So therefore, there is misdirection in terms of the opposition in their unwarranted behaviour.
Secondly, in terms of section 116 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which I shall quote, the Legislature of Zimbabwe consists of Parliament and the President acting in accordance with the Constitution, which means His Excellency the President institutionally is part of this august
House and that position has got to be respected and cannot be contested.
Accordingly, as head of this institution, I rule that the Hon. Members from the opposition shall not be allowed to attend Parliament today, including after his Excellency has gone – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Relatedly, their allowances for today shall not be paid accordingly, so I have ruled.
Hon.T. Mliswa and Hon. Kwaramba having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you rising on the same matter?
HON. KWARAMBA: No.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you be quick.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. As the Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus, I would like to applaud the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services for the two boards that were announced yesterday. The inclusion of women is highly appreciated. It is my wish that other boards and Ministries follow the same. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Kwaramba. I think the Hon. Minister of Information has adhered to the constitutional provisions - Sections 17 and 56, and also adhered to the Corporate Governance Entities Act accordingly. I hope that her colleagues will follow suit.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker Sir, it is one’s ideology and constitutionalism that makes us understand who we are. Whether you are independent or not, I am bound by the founding principles of this country which is the Chimurenga War, because of that, my parents were part of it. I can never be astray but maintain those founding principles, stand for them and protect them. Hon. Chinotimba was correct in saying what he did but with due respect, he cannot say ndakadhakwa. I think it is important that it be withdrawn because I do not even take alcohol, I do not take any drugs, I am a very sober person. I could behave that way but it is because of my passion and my belief in what I stand for. That cannot be mistaken for the fact that I am drunk.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me also recognise and appreciate Hon. Shiri’s remarks. It is real magnanimity for him to do that. It is not many leaders of his level: he was a commander of the liberation struggle, ZANLA in the Tete Province, that he can stand up and make such an apology. That is something that has humbled me and because of, that I would want to be schooled by him on how to do things. I do not know if he can agree to be my mentor, though late but I think that is something I have never thought a man of his stature would stand up to do that. There is a lot that we can learn from him.
Finally, Mr. Speaker Sir, let me notify the House that Hon. the late, Elliot Richard Mujana who was a Member of Parliament in this august House is no more. That is why I was late. He will be buried in Mt. Darwin, in Chesa. Maybe other Members were not privy to that but I
think that the notice I have given makes them understand. He was a
Member of Parliament for Mt. Darwin Central at the time, Elliot Richard Mujana. I thought I should announce that. He will be buried at Chesa, tomorrow at 2 p.m. I am sure you all join me Mr. Speaker and other Members to convey condolences to his family. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Hon. Chinotimba, in the spirit of being honourable, can you withdraw the statement.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, to be honest, I did not say my colleague honourable is drunk - I said, although he speaks as if he is drunk. I did not say he is drunk but if it has caused discomfort, I withdraw.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. In Shona, what you said
Hon. Member we say, regai kurova imbwa makaviga mupinyi. Hon. Members, business is now suspended, when you get the bells ringing, please come back in time and resume your seats. Thank you.
Business suspended at 1420 hours.
House resumed at 1427 hours.
His Excellency, the President E. D. Mnangagwa in attendance.
MOTION
FINANCE BILL: 2019 MID-TERM FISCAL POLICY REVIEW AND
SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET STATEMENT
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE):
INTRODUCTION
- Mr Speaker Sir, I rise to present this year’s Mid-Year Budget Review, complying with Section 7 (2) (a) of the Public Finance
Management Act.
- The Review seeks to update this august House and the nation at large on macroeconomic developments during the first half of the year. On the basis of developments to date, the Review further outlines an updated Macro-Fiscal Framework, which underpins the proposed 2019 Supplementary Budget.
- To the extent possible, contributions receivedfrom various stakeholders in Government, private sector and civic organisations, including critics, are acknowledged and appreciated in the crafting of this Review. Mr Speaker Sir, there is a saying by Michael Bassey
Johnson (a writer)that “a bitter critic is the sweetest corrector”.It is, therefore, incumbent upon all of us to be tolerantof different views and freely participate in the reconstruction of this economy.
- What is important is to remain steadfast in implementing key reforms, hence the themefor this Review: ‘Building a Strong
Foundation for Future Prosperity’.
- Allow me, Mr Speaker Sir, to contextualise this Review by recapping the key tenets of and progress on the Transitional Stabilisation Programme (TSP), which continue to guide our interventions as we move towards Vision 2030.
TRANSITIONAL STABILISATION PROGRAMME
IMPLEMENTATION PROGRESS
- Mr Speaker Sir, the first half of 2019 was marked by a major shift in policy management by breaking from the past and focusing onaction in line with our thrust on Results Based Management.As a result, the period witnessed implementation of boldand fundamental fiscal and monetary policy measures (what has become to be known as austerity measures), which were supported by structural and governance reforms.
- Relentless commitment to full implementation of these reforms, void of policy reversals and inconsistencieshas, as intended, set a solid stabilisation base for triple “S” growth – strong, sustained and
shared growth.
- Mr Speaker Sir, allow to briefly highlight some of the progress made under the TSP before turning to the Supplementary Budget.
Stabilisation
- During the first half of the year, TSP reforms first and foremost continued to focus primarily on containing the twin fiscal and current account deficits, which over the years instigated instability in the economy.
- To Government’s credit, we have put in motion an irreversible process for rebuilding a stable, strong and democratic macroeconomic environment. The fiscal and current accounts are now balanced and under control, while the tools of monetary policy have also been activated – thus representing an essential and complete toolkit for dealing with various macro-economic challenges facing the economy.
- In support of the achievements scored under stabilisation, suffice to give the following fiscal, monetary and current account results.
Fiscal Outturn
- During the first half of the year, the Budget remained on track in line with the fiscal consolidation objectives and targets.
Revenues
- Monthly revenue collections for the first six months generally performed above targets by an average of $139.9 million to give cumulative revenues of $4.99 billion, against a target of $4.15 billion, giving a positive variance 20.2%.
Monthly Actual Revenue vs Target
Source: MOFED
Expenditures
- On the other hand, total Government spending for the period January to June 2019 wasZWL$4.2 billion against a target of ZWL$3.7 billion, which is ZWL$532 million over-expenditure
(15%).
Monthly Actual Expenditure Vs Target
Source: MOFED
Expenditures
- The negative variance is a result of inescapable and unforeseen expenditures on both current and capital heads, arising from higher than anticipated inflation, exchange rate fluctuations, drought and
the devastating Cyclone Idai. Accommodated critical inescapable expenditures were related to the following:
- Cushioning allowance of ZWL$63 million to civil servants that was paid from January to March;
- Cost of living adjustment allowance (COLA) amounting to
ZWL$400 million implemented starting from April;
- Implied Pension Review of ZWL$62.1 million;
- Implied NSSA Review of ZWL$3.6 million;
- Filling of critical posts requiring ZWL$58 million;
- Cyclone Idai mitigation, with ZWL$61.8 million;
- Subsidised mass public transport of ZWL$30.9 million up to June Social protection and infrastructural programmes.
Budget Balance
- For the half year period, a budget surplus (savings) of ZWL$803.6 million was realised.
Budget Outturn: ZWL$m
|
Jan |
Feb |
Mar |
Apr |
May |
June |
Total |
Total Revenues |
487.6 |
606.7 |
832.3 |
822.0 |
932.2 |
1,310.8 |
4,991.7 |
Total Expenditures & Net Lending |
385.2 |
521.3 |
577.0 |
695.3 |
857.9 |
1,151.1 |
4,188.0 |
Budget Balance |
102.4 |
85.4 |
255.3 |
126.7 |
74.3 |
159.8 |
803.6 |
Source: MOFED
- The above surplus/savings clearly reflect entrenchment of fiscal discipline in line Ministries and Government Departments.
Domestic Debt
- Mr Speaker Sir, in 2018, we witnessed a dramatic increase in domestic debt, fed by fiscal deficits of above ZWL$2 billion primarily financed by the issuance of Treasury Bills and Central Bank overdraft.
- However, over the period January - June 2019, significant fiscal adjustments culminated in domestic debt containment. The high impact measures included:
- Zero recourse to Central Bank financing, including the overdraft; Restructuring of overdraft facility, cash advances and Treasury
Bills held by RBZ into long-term marketable instruments;
- A stop to any Treasury bills issuances for ZAMCO;
- Issuance of Treasury bills only for budgeted expenditures; and Honouring of TBs maturities.
- The total Treasury bills issued amounted to ZWL$230 million, sorely for budget support and cash-flow management.
- Consequently, Mr Speaker Sir, adherence to sound fiscal and monetary policy reforms allowed containment of domestic debt stock which stood at ZWL$8.8 billion as at end June 2019 down from ZWL$9.5 billion as at 31 December 2018.
Stock of Domestic Debt (Jan 2018 - Jun 2019)
- Mr Speaker Sir, going forward, Government borrowings for Budget purposes will observe the new TBs Auction Framework in order to promote transparency and the rebuilding of market confidence.
- Furthermore, while a firm base for economic stabilisation has been set, it requires further and continuous refinement, which becomes a priority during the second half of the year and beyond.
Current Account Balance
- The current account, for the first time since the adoption of the multi-currency regime in 2009, registered a surplus in the first quarter of 2019.
- A surplus of US$196 million[1] was registered in the first quarter of 2019 compared to a deficit of US$491 for the same period in 2018, constituting a major improvement in the current account.
- This reflects a sharp contraction in imports through import management, against a moderate increase in exports in line withand export promotion measures under implementation.
Current Account Balance
Source: RBZ
- Mr Speaker Sir, attainment of a fiscal surplus, combined with a current account balance during the first half of the year constitutes a firm roadmap to confidence building much required by this economy.
- Furthermore, now that we have introduced our own local currency, this has not only restored monetary policy but also created scope for enhanced competitiveness of our exports.
Prices
- Mr Speaker Sir, as the famous Economist Milton Friedman said:
“Inflation is taxation without legislation”. The story of Zimbabwe’s inflation has visible scars in our lives and deserves proactive and appropriate attention.
- On the other hand, we are aware that inflation is caused by running of huge budget deficits, financed through monetisation which creates high money supply growth - Simple!
- Hence, elimination of fiscal deficits will curb money supply growth and therefore, inflation.
- In our case, for a prolonged period of time, Government was running high fiscal deficits, which were monetised through issuance of TBs and overdraft at the Central Bank. These deficits translated into a significant and uncontrolled expansion of money supply which ended up chasing foreign currency in both the formal and parallel markets.
Parallel Exchange Rate and Monthly Inflation
Source: ZIMSTAT
- The unbridled demand for foreign currency, especially at 1:1 exchange rate between the bond note and the US Dollar, quickly became unsustainable. This prompted the decision to liberalise the exchange rate in February 2019.
- The liberalisation of the exchange rate, combined with ongoing fiscal consolidation reforms rolled out since October 2018 and a complementary tight monetary policy, have managed to contain excessive money supply growth, which had been the main driver of
inflation.
- Government measures to contain fiscal deficits by capping borrowing from the Central Bank, non-issuance of TBs, as well as stringent expenditure control measures, have significantly restrained money supply growth.
- As a result, the exchange rate fluctuation has largely dissipated with movement towards convergence between parallel market and interbank rates. This is critical in our fight against speculative practises and inflation.
Parallel and Interbank Exchange
Rate
Month on Month InflationOutlook to Dec 2019.
Source: Macroeconomic Working Group (MOFED, Zimstat & RBZ)
- Therefore, going forward, it is imperative thatwe pursue and further strengthen our fiscal and monetary policies and also remain responsible enough to ensure that factors such as wage increases and money supply remain under check.
Inflation Rebasing
- The change in currency regime from multicurrency to Zimbabwe Dollar has definitely impacted on the base for calculation of CPI indices and hence inflation. Given this transition Zimstat will defer publication of year on year inflation while building up data of prices in mono-currency for a period of 12 months to February 2020. This
will ensure that we compare like with like in terms of currency regimes.
- This is in line with what was done in 2009 after the change of currency regime, whereby Zimstat resorted to only gazetting month on month inflation. Year on year inflation publication will therefore resume afterFebruary 2020, alongside with month on month inflation publication.
- In the interim, stakeholders are encouraged to focus more on month on month inflation as barometer for price developments.
GDP Growth
- Owing to negative natural conditions, which badly affected a number of sectors particularly agriculture and power generation, coupled with inflationary pressures, foreign currency shortages prevailing and limited external financial support, have been major drawbacks to growth stimulation in the first half of 2019.
- In view of these headwinds, the revised 2019 GDP growth is expected to be negative.Treasury will, therefore, keep tracking key developments in the economy with a view of making appropriate adjustments to sectoral growth profiles.
FISCAL FRAMEWORK& SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET
- Mr Speaker Sir, in view of recent economic developments, it has become necessary to update and align the Macro-Fiscal Framework with fiscal and monetary policy pronouncements made by
Government between January and June 2019.
- Resultantly, the Mid-Year Review provides an updated 2019 Fiscal Framework with projected total expenditures of ZWL$18.62billion, against anticipated revenue collections of ZWL$14.1billion.
- The projected expenditures are, inclusive of a proposed
Supplementary Budget of ZWL$10.85billion.
Supplementary Budget Framework (ZWL$m)
|
2019 |
|
|
Original Budget |
Supplementary Budget |
Revised Budget |
|
Revenue and grants |
6,199 |
7,861 |
14,060 |
Expenditure and net lending |
7,765 |
10,854 |
18,620 |
Current expenditure |
5,728 |
5,824 |
11,552 |
Employment costs |
4,050 |
1,506 |
5,556 |
Interest payments |
351 |
160 |
511 |
Foreign |
24 |
206 |
230 |
Domestic |
327 |
- 46 |
281 |
Goods & services |
719 |
3,740 |
4,459 |
Current transfers |
608 |
418 |
1,026 |
Capital expenditure and net lending |
2,037 |
5,030 |
7,068 |
Overall balance (commitment basis) |
-1,566 |
- 2,993 |
-4,560 |
Source: Treasury
Supplementary Budget
- The 2019 Supplementary Budget proposesadditional provisionsand reforms mainly related to the following areas:
- Stimulation of production, targeting agriculture, industry and other productive sectors;
- Food security including;
- Grain procurement to mitigate the effect of drought conditions;
- Funding for the 2019/20 Summer Cropping Programme
- Welfare of civil servants and pensioners;
- Social services delivery and social protection;
- Infrastructure and utilities;
- Constitutional requirements including transfers to provincial councils and local authorities andsupport for governance institutions;
- Supporting structural and governance reforms;
- Support for Government operations; and
- Respective revenue measures including tax thresholds adjustment.
- The supplementary expenditures being proposed are, however, designed in a way that they are in line with increased revenues, and will be implemented without compromising fiscal discipline and upsetting set fiscal targets.
Welfare of Civil Servants and Pensioners
- The 2019 Budget provided for ZWL$4.05 billion for compensation of employees consistent with the objective of containing the wage bill to sustainable levels and capacity of the budget.
- However, developments during the first quarter led to interim cushioning allowance of ZWL$63 millionbeing awarded to employees with a COLA ofZWL$400 million effective April 2019. The cost of living adjustment also implied a review of pension and related benefits costing ZWL$133 million.
- Over and above the reviews in the first half, the continued inflationary pressures led Government to award a once off cushioning allowance in July of ZWL$143 million.
- The supplementary Budget proposes to accommodate all the above commitments, moving employment cost Budget allocation from
ZWL$4.1 billion to ZWL$5.9 billion.
Cushioning of Pensioners
- The prevailing inflationary environment is also imposing great hardships on vulnerable pensioners. Therefore, proposed adjustments in compensation of employees will also be cascaded to pensioners.
Government Operations
- The 2019 Budget provided for ZWL$1.017 billion for goods and services. Taking into account inflation and exchange rate developments in the economy, a supplementary budget of ZWL$2.8 billion is being proposed, covering requirements for all ministries through their respective Votes.
Stimulating Production
- During the last half of 2019 and beyond, production and productivity enhancement in all sectors will receive due attention to complete the transformative framework of the TSP. This will entail deepened focus on improving competitiveness, investment mobilisation underpinned by the current re-engagement efforts that are aimed at resolving the external debt overhang and improving relations with other nations.
Agriculture and Food Security
Preparations for the 2019/20 Farming Season
- Cognisant of the prevailing severe drought and the need to revive the agriculture sector, Government will extend support towards the agriculture sector during the 2019/20 agriculture season, while nurturing the private sector to play a greater role in subsequent years.
- As a result, the 2019 Mid-Term Review is setting aside ZWL$1.67 billion towards support of strategic crops of grain, soya beans and cotton under the following programmes.
Vulnerable Households Input Support Scheme
Grain Inputs
- Government policy commits support to vulnerable households through an appropriate inputs scheme. For the 2019/20 agriculture season, the Supplementary Budget is proposing an additional ZWL$437 million for grain inputs (maize, sorghum and pearl millet). The Scheme will also include sugar and soya beans seed.
- The inputs will comprise of seed, compound D and top dressing, all for a targeted area of 640 000 hectares.
Cotton Inputs
- A number of households in dry areas make a living out of cotton production. To sustain recovery in cotton production, ZWL$213 million is being set aside towards inputs for cotton for a targeted area of 200 000 hectares.
- Beneficiaries of the Programme will be selected based on their repayment track record and their delivery record to COTTCO.
Special Maize and Soya Bean Programmes
- Ordinarily, agricultural programmes outside the Vulnerable Inputs Support Scheme are best supported by private financing given budgetary constraints. However, given last year’s drought, the capacity of our “infant” farmers has been compromised, necessitating further Government support through loan financing arrangements, which include private sector players.
- As a result, Government is extending the Programme for another year to restore food security. The Programme targets 210 000 hectares under maize and 30 000 hectares under soya beans at a cost of ZWL$2.8 billion.Accordingly, the Supplementary Budget is making an additional provision of ZWL$1.03 billion to kick-start the programme.
- However, to close the loopholes during the forthcoming agriculture season, Government is adopting a targeted approach, which select exclusively farmers with a track record of honouring their loan obligations from previous Programmes and have a history of producing high yields.
- The selection of farmers will be done in a transparent way and measures will be put in place to recover all the loans.
Domestic Grain Mobilisation
- For the 2018/19 season, maize and other small grains output is expected at 852 000 tons, significantly below the annual national requirements of approximately 1.8 million tons required for human consumption.
- It is, therefore, prudent that Government prioritise local grain purchases in order to replenish stocks at GMB. However, in order to incentivise farmers to deliver, Government has reviewedmaize producer prices upwards from ZWL$726 per ton set earlier. GMB has also opened additional collection points in various provinces of the country to enhance grain mobilisation and reduce transport costs to the farmer.
- This Supplementary Budget, therefore, provides ZWL$630 million for local grain purchases and logistics.
- To complement this, Government gazetted Statutory Instrument 145 of 2019 which bars any other person or institution other than GMB from buying maize from farmers.
Grain Importation
- Mr Speaker Sir, with a large grain deficit, Government has established necessary arrangements for grain importation and effective distribution.
- Towards this, the Supplementary Budget proposes to set aside ZWL$624 million, enough to cater for requirements up to
December 2019.
Mining
- Mining remains our major source for export earnings, GDP and employment. During the first half of the year, the sector contributed
US$1.3 billion, which is 68% of the total exports of US$1.9 billion.
- The sector accommodates 45 000 formal employees. Furthermore, the sector provides a source of livelihood to over a million small scale and artisanal miners involved in gold and chrome mining.
- The sector, which experienced recovery during the first quarter of 2019, apparently faced headwinds during the second quarter, as evidenced by output losses in most major minerals such as gold, platinum, palladium, diamonds, nickel, chrome and coal. The major constraints are being imposed by foreign currency shortages and the intermittent electricity supply.
- However, given the resilience and potential of the mining sector, current setbacks are temporary with expected recovery in the short term on the back of firm international prices and envisaged improvements in power and forex supply.
- Furthermore, Government, in line with the thrust of opening up the economy to private investment, has concluded a number of investment agreements with investors.
- These investments, will, however, take some time (up to 10 years of production) to give visible net benefits in view of long gestation periods for mining projects.
- Government will, therefore, in the second half of the year unveil a comprehensivestrategy and roadmaptowards a US$12 billion
mining industry by 2023. The attainment of this milestone is not an event but a process, which is well underway with concrete start-ups and expansion of projects in a number of minerals, which include platinum, gold, ferrochrome, coal and hydrocarbons, lithium, diamonds, iron ore, among others.
Gold Mobilisation Facility
- Government is putting in place a Gold Finance Facility to capacitate Fidelity Printers and Refiners to be able to buy gold from all gold producers. Government shall ensure that there is only one system to be used by Fidelity Printers and Refiners for purchasing gold.
- The current system is that 55% of gold sales proceeds are retained by the gold producers in their Nostro accounts and 45% is paid in
Zimbabwean dollars.
Manufacturing
- Resuscitation of the manufacturing sector is imperative as production and productivity is the cornerstone for growth. To facilitate the revival of the local industry, Government has developed a new National Industrial Development Policy supported
by a Local Content Strategy to develop the manufacturing industry into a modern and diversified sector in the region.
Infrastructure and Utilities
- With regards to infrastructure and utilities, an additional ZWL$1.3 billion is being proposed to cater for various projects in the energy, transport, water, public amenities, social services, irrigation and other infrastructural projects.
- This gives a total infrastructure budget of ZWL$2.5 billion, constituting 35.4% of total capital development budget.
- Mindful of the budgetary constraints, Treasury will be issuing a Vaka/Yaka Zimbabwe Infrastructure Bond during the second half of the year, to mobilise private sector funding for some of our budgeted ongoing priority projects.
Energy
- Drought has reduced hydro-electric generation at Kariba Dam, reducing power supply to unsustainable levels as reflected through severe load shedding.
- The current electricity supply situation retards all our stabilisation gains and require urgent interventions to improve power supply to our productive sectors.
Power Supply Strategy
- In the short term, power supply deficit can only be met through power imports and hence it is urgent that Government capacitates ZESA to mobilise requisite resources through appropriate and cost recovery tariffs implemented through a differentiated scale.
- Therefore, Government has approved the following electricity tariff measures for immediate implementation:
- The electricity tariff for Non-Exporting businesses be increased from an average of ZWL9.86c/kWh to an average of
ZWL45c/kWh (approximately USc5/kWh);
- The electricity tariff for domestic consumers be increased from an average of ZWL9.86c/kWh to an average of ZWL27c/kWh
(approximately USc3/kWh), which is subsidised;
- The electricity tariff for Agriculture consumers be increased from an average of ZWL9.86c/kWh to an average of ZWL27c/kWh
(approximately USc3/kWh), which is subsidised;
- Maintain the tariff for ferrochrome smelters and other miners at US$0.067/kWh and US$0.0986/kWh, respectively, and ensure that the resources are ring-fenced in a Special Account solely for purposes of importing electricity; and
- ZESA be allowed to bill all other exporters and foreign currency earners in foreign currency and ensure that the resources are ring-fenced in a Special Account solely for purposes of importing electricity.
- The responsible Ministry and the Zimbabwe Energy Regulatory
Authority (ZERA) will give the necessary implementation details.
- In addition, other urgent measures for sustainable power supply evolve around the following areas:
- Demand management through rapid role out of pre-paid and smart meters and embracing energy saving technology;
- Speeding up ongoing reforms including restructuring of ZESA to improve efficiency and management of the parastatal; and
- Implementation of planned medium to long term projects.
Power Generation Projects
- Government is prioritising implementation of major energy generation infrastructure projects in the country such as the Hwange units 7 & 8 Expansion Project, Kariba Dam Rehabilitation and
Batoka Gorge Hydro-Electric Project.
- To support ongoing works at these projects, an additional provision of ZWL$42 million is being proposed, targeting counterpart funding and equity for ZPC for the project.
- In addition, Government will soon launch the Renewable Energy Policy and Biofuels Policy which seeks to create a well-balanced energy mix as a strategy to climate-proofing of energy infrastructure in the country, taking advantage of our resource endowments in solar, coal, gas and hydro.
Rural Electrification
- Eight institutions were electrified during the period under review, against a target of 14, with most projects having stalled due to shortage of materials, particularly transformers, conductors and auto-reclosers. Overall progress on schools and clinics electrified now stand at 65%.
- With regard to solar mini grid systems, a number of rural institutions were electrified, bringing the total to 422.
Water and Sanitation
- Through the Budget, Government is up-scaling interventions in the sector by addressing identified deficiencies in existing water infrastructure, as well as expanding availability of water sources through construction of new dams and boreholes.
Dams
- Substantial progress relates to Marovanyati, Causeway, GwayiShangani, Chivhu, Bindura, Tuli-Manyange and Silverstroom
Dams.
- To support all ongoing works on all dam projects, it is proposed that an amount of ZWL$140 million be set aside. Proposed allocation for other water projects amounts to ZWL$27.6 million.
Transport and Communications
Roads
- The strategic choice we made to upgrade our trunk roads from gravel to bituminous surfacing, as well as rehabilitation of feeder roads under the Road Development Programme continues to offer benefits and relief to road users and communities across the country. 99. To cater for increased costs under the Road Development Programme, an additional amount of ZWL$284.2 million is being proposed to year end.
Social Services Infrastructure
Schools Infrastructure
100.Construction of seventeen rural schools under the First Education
Project started in 2013 with co-financing from the OPEC Fund for International Development (OFID) covering construction of buildings, equipping the schools with furniture, computers and associated equipment.
- The construction works are now expected to complete during the third quarter of the year.
- The process of procurement of furniture, computers and associated equipment is already under way. For the electrification of the schools, discussions with the Rural Electrification Agency indicate a requirement of ZWL$13 million to connect all the schools to the National Grid.
- In this regard, we propose an additional allocation of ZWL$26.6 million for the project, covering electrification costs for the targeted schools as well as Government’s counterpart funding for the project.
Innovation Hubs
104.Construction works on the innovation hubs at five institutionsare now expected to be complete for commissioning during the second half of the year.
- The institutions have already started the tendering process for procurement of laboratory equipment, which will ensure proper interface between industry and universities research, essential for the economic development of the country.
Health Infrastructure
- In order to strengthen the referral health system, critical in the delivery of health services, Government is rehabilitating and upgrading health infrastructure as well as constructing rural health posts.
- To date, four posts, namely Dundwe, Minda, Kairezi and Gumbochuma are now in the final stages of completion and expected to be open to communities in the third quarter of 2019.
- Furthermore, construction of Dongamuzi, Munemo, Chiromo and Mbuyamaswa Rural Health Centres is on-going and expected to be completed before year-end.
109.With regards to district hospitals, progress has been noted in the refurbishment of Mvurwi, Kadoma and Ndanga District Hospitals where waste management and laundry facilities were upgraded whilst the wards received a facelift.
- Works on the construction of Lupane Provincial Hospital will soon commence, following approvals from the Procurement Authority of
Zimbabwe (PRAZ), with the contractor expected on site in August
2019.
- Refurbishment of Mutare, Gweru, Masvingo and Gwanda Provincial Hospitals, targeting upgrading theatres, general and maternity wards was completed during the first half of the year.
- With regards to central hospitals, refurbishment works for the medical gas reticulation system, theatres and incinerators at Mpilo and United Bulawayo Hospitals have been completed.
- Following a fire outbreak which affected Mbuya Nehanda Maternity Hospital at Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals in February 2019, refurbishment of wards and installation of new theatre equipment has been completed and the hospital is now fully operational.
114.Other interventions made to date include rehabilitation and equipping of Chitungwiza School of Nursing and Dental Training School as well as procurement of diagnostic and therapeutic equipment from India.
- The Ministry of Health and Child Care has also completed the tendering process for procurement of ambulances. In this regard, an amount of ZWL$68 million in additional funding is proposed to complete the procurement process that targets acquisition of 100 fully equipped ambulances.
Transfers to Provincial Councils & Local Authorities
- It is a Constitutional requirement to set aside 5% of revenues for allocation to Provincial and District Councils. Against the ZWL$310 million allocated in the 2019 Budget disbursements to date stand at ZWL$120 million. These are to local authoritiesimplementation of basic infrastructure projects at community level.
- Following the review in the revenue projections to year end, and consistent with the Constitution, the original allocation for InterGovernmental fiscal transfers is being reviewed upwards to ZWL$703 million which will be distributed to the benefiting institutions in line with the current formula.
- The increased funding should provide impetus to our devolution agenda as well as facilitate implementation of priority and impactful projects at the local level.
Cyclone Idai
- Cyclone Idai is the latest natural disaster in a succession of climatic shocks to affect the country and caused severe flooding in Chimanimani and Chipinge Districts whilst other districts affected include Buhera, Makoni, Masvingo and Mutare Rural.
- Mr Speaker Sir, I wish at this juncture, to commend Zimbabweans from all walks of life, including development partners for the tremendous support towards our recovery efforts.
- To sustain ongoing efforts in restoring damaged infrastructure and livelihoods for affected communities, an amount of ZW$414.3 million in additional funding has been set aside in the Budget.
Support to Utilities
- In line with the thrust of non-accumulation of arrears and taking into account market developments, a supplementary budget of ZWL$120 million is being proposed towards utilities such as telephone, water and rates, electricity and vehicle hire as well as office accommodation.
- Settlement of Government arrears to these utilities is also a way of capacitating and capitalising them.
- Mr Speaker Sir, it is also disconcerting to note accumulation of arrears to ZESA by corporates, households and other entities, irrespective of sub-optimal tariff levels obtaining, and therefore urge all users to be responsible and pay up for services received. This also refers to various outstanding consumer obligations to local authorities.
Social Safety Nets for Vulnerable Groups
- The adverse macro-economic environment caused by drought and cyclone requires Government to support vulnerable groups with support mechanisms that allow them to withstand the negative shocks to their livelihoods.
- According to the Zimbabwe Vulnerability Assessment 2019 Livelihoods Assessment, 59% (about 5.5 million people) of the rural population will be food insecure during the peak hunger period.
- In terms of support to these groups, Government has so far distributed 189 000 tons of grain in support of 757 000 households. The beneficiaries are in both rural and urban areas. The following table gives cumulative grain distribution by province for the period
January to June 2019.
Cumulative Grain Distribution by Province Jan- Jun. 2019
National |
Number of Households |
Cumulative Distributions |
Manicaland |
80,285 |
24,558.53 |
Mashonaland Central |
70,080 |
21,209.00 |
Mashonaland East |
65,627 |
19,755.89 |
Mashonaland West |
84,552 |
19,756.71 |
Masvingo |
134,719 |
37,016.06 |
Matabeleland North |
51,810 |
11,807.05 |
Matabeleland South |
68,380 |
16,202.65 |
Midlands |
176,290 |
34,766.75 |
Bulawayo |
12,968 |
990.05 |
Harare |
12,269 |
2,979.83 |
Total |
756,980 |
189,042.52 |
- Government has identified and scaled up social safety net programmes under health, education and social protection, which will see the initial budget increasing from ZWL$267.6 million to
ZWL$1.135 billion, broken down as follows:-
- Social Protection: ZWL$811.9 million;
- Health Care: ZWL$250.4 million; and
- Education: ZWL$72.9 million.
Urban Mass Public Transportation System
- Government introduced an Urban Mass Public Transportation System as a safety net to cushion the public from increases in transport costs resulting from fuel price corrections after the introduction of the interbank foreign exchange market. This was also partly triggered by extortionate and exploitative behaviour by some public Transport Operators.
- In order to increase access and coverage, resources amounting to ZWL$104 million have been provided in the context of this supplementary budget.
- Going forward, Government is pursuingthe establishment ofa MassRapid Transit System, which is a coordinated public transport network facilitated through railways and road transport for both urban and rural commuters. In that regard, appropriate investigations and studies are under way.
DEVELOPMENT PARTNER SUPPORT
- Development Partners continue to complement Government efforts towards the implementation of development programmes and projects across various sectors of our economy. Government acknowledges the immense support from the international community during the aftermath of the devastating Cyclone Idai, which led to loss of lives and livelihoods as well as destruction of infrastructure, especially in Manicaland Province.
- During the first quarter of 2019, a total of US$117.8 million was disbursed by Development Partners, of which US$71.2 million was from Bilateral Partners and US$46.6 million was from Multilateral
Partners.
- A total of US$641.2 million is projected to be disbursed by
Development Partners in 2019, of which US$490.7 million is from
Bilateral Partners and US$150.5 million is from Multilateral Partners.
- The development assistance sectoral breakdown for 2018 and projections to 2019 year-end are as follows:
Sectoral Disbursements
Sector |
2018 Actual (US$) |
2019 Projections (US$) |
Health |
359,736,560 |
347,985,764 |
Humanitarian |
69,932,139 |
52,274,240 |
Agriculture |
27,279,476 |
33,655,275 |
Capacity Building |
21,532,659 |
28,965,258 |
Governance |
59,793,297 |
68,670,362 |
Water Supply & Sanitation |
9,733,549 |
15,779,105 |
Education |
29,867,898 |
27,988,276 |
Basic Social Services |
37,558,456 |
35,478,171 |
Transport |
9,855,864 |
7,399,182 |
Multi – Sector |
8,735,541 |
9,683,142 |
Power/Energy |
10,386,840 |
13,287,358 |
TOTAL |
644,412,279 |
641,166,133 |
Source: Ministry of Finance, Development Partners
Support for Governance Reforms
- The2019 Budget recognised the importance of transforming all governance systems which include, Rule of Law, Freedoms of
Expression and Association, Respect for Human and Property Rights, and Zero Tolerance to Corruption, among others.
- Accordingly, the 2019 Budget allocated ZWL$76.7 million to institutions mandated to promoting good governance targeting capacitation of those Constitutional institutions mandated to promote democratic principles. These include the:
- Zimbabwe Electoral Commission;
- Zimbabwe Gender Commission;
- Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission;
- Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission;
- Zimbabwe Judiciary Service Commission; and
- National Peace and Reconciliation Commission.
- The Supplementary Budget, therefore, proposes to make additional allocations of ZWL$125.5 million to the above institutions for purposes of enhancing their capacity in promoting good governance practices.
Structural Reforms
- Mr Speaker Sir, in support of the demand side objectives, structural reforms remain a key pillar of our reforms. Details on progress made under various public enterprises, ease of doing business and labour market flexibility, among others are in the main Statement.
Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act
- Mr Speaker Sir, Government, through the 2018 Finance
Amendment Bill amended the Indigenisation and Empowerment Act and platinum and diamonds are now removed from the reserve list and shareholding will depend on negotiations with investors.
- Subsequently, the Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment Act will be repealed and replaced by the Economic Empowerment Act, which will be consistent with the current thrust “Zimbabwe is Open for Business”.
Offshore Financial Services Centre (OFSC)
- It will be recalled that in my 2019 National Budget Statement, I advised that Government will consider exploring the possibility of setting up an Offshore Financial Services Centre (OFSC) as part of efforts to develop the financial service sector, through provision of opportunities for global investment.
- A lot of research has to date been carried out, which reveal that offshore financial service centres promote foreign direct investment, domestic investment, export development &promotion and national branding, among others.
- Other economies that have successfully embraced offshore financial service centres regionally and internationally include, Mauritius, the Cape Verde, Kazakhstan and Switzerland, among others. These countries have grown to become financial hubs attracting a lot of investment.
- The financial services centres in the countries cited above have been set up over periods ranging from three to fifteen years.
- Zimbabwe is strategically located to host a regional and international financial hub, given its accessibility and good connectivity, which are some of the attributes necessary for successful setting up of an OFSC. The adoption of our local currency is also a positive step towards attaining a stable currency, to attract investors.
- In order to nurture confidence in the financial services sector, thereby attracting the much needed investment, establishing an OFSC is a guaranteed milestone towards achieving this.
- However, implementation of an OFSC should be preceded by introduction of a number of economic reforms to promote efficient functioning of the financial system.
- Mr Speaker Sir, I undertake to provide periodic updates to stakeholders on the progress towards setting up Zimbabwe’s Offshore Financial Service Centre.
Dry Ports
- In addition, Government is also considering establishment of dry ports within Zimbabwe borders. These ports maximise Zimbabwe’s potential as a transit regional economy and also facilitate efficient and cost effective supply of essential imports into the economy.
REVENUE MEASURES
- Mr Speaker Sir, the revenue measures that I am proposing seek to review the incentives that have already been put in place in support of the local industry and the productive sectors, enhance revenue generation capacity and avail relief to taxpayers through adjustments of tax rates, taking into account the recent economic developments.
- The measures also seek to align existing legislation to policy pronouncements.
Support to Industry
Clothing Manufacturers Rebate
- In order to close loopholes observed in the utilisation of the
Clothing Manufacturers Rebate, I urge ZIMRA to undertake a comprehensive Post Clearance Audit of the Facility, so as to inform
Government on appropriate measures to address the malpractices.
Suspension of Duty on Commercial Tyres
- In view of the gap in local production and also in the interest of ensuring safety of road users, I propose to ring-fence importation of 100 000 commercial tyres at a lower duty rate of 15% for a period of twelve months.
Electrical Manufacturers Rebate
- I propose to provide for additional inputs to the list of components that can be imported duty free under the Electrical Manufacturers
Rebate.
Customs Duty on Motor Vehicle Filters
- The country’s motor vehicle population has increased over the past couple of years. This presents an opportunity for companies to localize the manufacture of spare parts, thereby enhancing linkages within the motor industry value chain.
- I, therefore, propose to reduce the customs duty on selected raw materials used in the manufacture of motor vehicle filters.
Revenue Enhancing Measures
Taxation of E-Commerce Transactions
- Mr Speaker Sir, income earned in Zimbabwe by foreign domiciled satellite broadcasting services and electronic commerce platforms is deemed to be from a source in Zimbabwe for tax purposes.
- I, therefore, propose to extend the scope of revenues deemed to be from a source in Zimbabwe for tax purposes to include amounts received by or on behalf of a radio, television broadcaster or an electronic commerce operator domiciled outside Zimbabwe.
Excise Tax
- Mr Speaker Sir, in response to inflationary pressure and currency adjustment, I propose adoption of an optimal policy mix between specific and ad valorem excise taxes as follows:
Fuel
Ad Valorem excise duty of 45% and 40% per litre of petrol and diesel, respectively.
Alcoholic Beverages
Optimal mix of Specific and AdValorem excise duty structure as follows:
- Spirits-40% of ex-factory cost plus ZWL$20/LAA;
- Fortified Wines-ZWL$4/L;
- Unfortified Wines-15% of ex-factory cost plus ZWL$3.5/L;
- Other Fermented Beverages- ZWL$3/L; and
- Opaque Beer Powder-ZWL$0.50/kg.
Tobacco
A combination Excise Duty of ZWL$50 per 1 000 cigarettes plus
20% Ad valorem on the ex-factory price.
Destruction of Seized Tobacco Products
Destroy all seized tobacco products, in line with the practice in other countries.
Taxation of Direct Fuel Imports
- Honourable Members would be aware that Government has approved the Direct Fuel Imports Facility, in order to minimise disruptions to the production cycle due to the fuel supply gaps.
- I, therefore, propose to levy excise duty on Direct Fuel Imports in foreign currency at rate of US$0.45 and US$0.40 per litre of petrol and diesel, respectively.
Tax Relief Measures
Employees’ Tax
- In order to cushion taxpayers against bracket creep and also stimulate aggregate demand for goods and services, I propose to review the tax-free threshold from the current ZW$350 to ZW$700, further widen the tax bands to a maximum of ZW$30 000, above which income is taxed at the marginal tax rate of 40%, with effect from 1 August 2019.
- Employees that earn in foreign currency shall, however, continue to settle their tax liability in foreign currency.
Intermediated Money Transfer Tax
- In view of the changes in the macroeconomic conditions, I propose to review the tax-free threshold from the current ZWL$10 to
ZW$20 and the maximum tax payable per transaction by corporates from the current ZWL$10 000 to ZW$15 000 for transactions with value exceeding ZWL$750 000.
- Furthermore, I propose to exempt additional transactions from
IMTT in order to eliminate double taxation.
Intermediated Money Transfer Tax on Mobile Money Transactions
- The current legislation obliges financial institutions to deduct intermediated money transfer tax on the transfer of money by any means other than by cheque in the following circumstances:
- Between two persons; or
- From one person to two or more persons; or
- From two or more persons to one person.
- However, cash-in and cash-out transactions conducted through mobile money transfer platforms do not fall within the above criterion, hence the tax is not deductible.
- Consequently, the majority of illegal foreign currency transactions are being conducted through this platform, thereby evading payment of tax and sustaining parallel market activities.
- I, therefore, propose to levy tax on the transfer of money from
Mobile Money Transfer Agents to recipients.
Mining Fiscal Regime
- Mr Speaker Sir, I propose the following key measures in support of the mining industry:
Deductibility of Mineral Royalties
- In line with practices in other countries, I propose to allow mining royalties as a deductible expense in the determination of taxable income.
Mining Levies and Charges
- In order to support investment and production in mining, I call upon the Mining Sector Cluster on the Ease of Doing Business Initiative to finalise and implement agreed positions relating to streamlining fees and charges levied on mining operations.
Mineral Royalties: Gold
- In order to support gold production as well as maximise revenue flows to the fiscus, I propose to review the royalty regime for primary gold producers from a two tier system to a sliding scale royalty regime that is based on gold prices as follows:
- Below US$1200 per ounce-3%; and
- Above US$1200 per ounce-5%.
- I further propose to review the royalty rate on gold produced by small scale miners from the current rate of 1% to 2% of the gross fair market value, in order to minimise arbitrage opportunities.
Alignment of the Definition of Mineral
- The Mines and Minerals Act recognises dimensional stones extracted from quarries as a mineral. In this regard, quarry mining operations and licensing are governed in terms of the Mines and Minerals Act.
- I, therefore, propose to align the definition of mineral in the Income
Tax Act to that in the Mines and Minerals Act.
Removal of Duty on Solar Batteries
- Honourable Members would be aware that Government, in 2010, provided for duty free importation of solar panels and other solar related products, in support of the energy policy thrust on use of alternative, clean and renewable energy sources.
- In order to promote investment in solar energy, thereby reducing power demand on the already constrained national grid, I propose to remove duty on lithium-ion solar batteries.
Suspension of Duty on Motor Vehicles Imported for use by
Physically Handicapped Persons
- Mr Speaker Sir, in the unfortunate event of death of the beneficiary before expiry of the Suspension of Duty on Motor Vehicles Imported for use by Physically Handicapped Persons, the suspended residual duty becomes due and payable by the Executor of the Estate.
- In order to relieve the burden for payment of duty by beneficiaries of the estate, I propose to waive payment of duty on such circumstances.
FEES AND CHARGES
Review of Fees, Levies and Charges
- Honourable Members will be aware that upon adoption of the Real
Time Gross Settlement Dollar as part of the multicurrency system through Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019, all amounts expressed in United States Dollars were converted to local currency on a one-toone basis. Consequently, all Statutory fees, levies and charges are now quoted in local currency.
- However, depreciation of the local unit against major currencies has increased the cost of goods and services, hence the current level of fees, levies and charges is no longer reflective of the cost of providing Government services.
- In view of the foregoing, and in line with Section 78 (1) (r) of the Public Finance Management Act [Cap. 22:19], which empowers Treasury to prescribe the level of fees and charges for revenues accruing to the Consolidated Revenue Fund, I propose to review fees, levies and charges on Government services, in line with economic developments.
Tax Administration
Review of Monetary Amounts in Tax Statutes
- Mr Speaker Sir, I have already alluded to the fact that monetary amounts in various Statutes, including tax related legislation, were converted from the United States Dollar to the Real Time Gross
Settlement Dollar on a one to one basisthrough promulgation of Statutory Instrument 33 of 2019, hence no longer serve the intended purpose.
- I, therefore propose an upward review of monetary amounts in tax legislation.
Rate of Interest on Outstanding Tax Debts
- Mr Speaker Sir, non-compliance with tax legislation continues to deprive Government of funding to support critical areas such as infrastructure and social services. A number of taxpayers deliberately delay remittance of tax to Government in order to fund their operations.
- In order to discourage taxpayers from such practices, I propose to review the interest rate paid on outstanding debts from the current
5% plus Libor, to 25%.
Capital Gains Tax Computation: Specified Assets
- In order to ease the burden of compliance and also enhance revenue assurance for tax administration, I propose to charge a flat capital
gains tax rate of 5% on the gross capital amount, being the deemed gain accruing on specified assets acquired after 24 June 2019.
Legislative Amendments
Income Tax
Relaxation of Thin Capitalisation Rules
- Mr Speaker Sir, Government has availed loan funding to recapitalise strategic State Owned Enterprises. This support has, however, resulted in some of these companies exceeding the prescribed debt to equity ratio of three to one for tax purposes.
- In order to facilitate implementation of strategic Government projects, I propose to exempt from tax, deemed dividends accrued on account of debt contracted through Government facilities by State Owned Enterprises where such debt exceeds the debt to equity ratio of three to one.
Capital Gains
- In order to reduce the cost of capitalisation, I propose to exempt gains accruing from the transfer or disposal of shares to the
Sovereign Wealth Fund from capital gains tax.
Tax Incentives for Special Economic Zones
- Government in 2017, availed a number of tax incentives for the benefit of companies engaged in export oriented industrial activities.
- Government notes with concern that some non-exporting companies have been designated as Special Economic Zones in order to benefit from the existing preferential tax regime.
- Notwithstanding operating in a Special Economic Zone, companies are, however, not automatically entitled to benefit from the existing tax incentives, unless they meet the conditions prescribed in the Finance or Income Tax Act.
- From the foregoing, mining houses and other companies that produce for the domestic market cannot benefit from tax incentives under Special Economic Zones.
- Furthermore, in order to ensure that there is conformity to the constitutionally enshrined principles of fair taxation and for purposes of transparency and accountability, tax incentives shall be solely promulgated through the relevant tax legislation.
Value Added Tax
Provision of Back-Up Services on Fiscalised Devices by Approved
Suppliers
- In order to enhance the effectiveness of the Fiscalisation
Programme, I propose to allow existing licenced vendors to provide back-up service to devices supplied by operators that would have ceased operations.
Zero-Rating of Exports of Exempt Supplies
- In order to facilitate competitiveness of exports, I propose to zerorate exports of exempt fruits, vegetables and unmanufactured tobacco.
Exemption from VAT: Tobacco Not Sold on the Auction Floors
- Currently, tobacco not sold on auction floors is exempt from VAT. A number of taxpayers are, however, experiencing challenges in identifying the type of tobacco that is exempt from VAT since it is not specified in the VAT Regulations.
- I, therefore, propose to specify the types of tobacco that are exempt from VAT and are also not sold on the auction floors.
Interest on Delayed VAT Refunds
- I propose to align to the prescribed period within which interest is payable to the 30-day limit.
Customs Duty
Manufacturers Rebate
Food, Soap and Cosmetic
- In order to reduce the cost of production, thereby enhancing competitiveness of locally manufactured soaps, Government, in
2018, increased the list of additional raw materials under the Food, Soap and Cosmetic Manufacturers Rebate, where materials used in the production process are imported duty free.
- The legislation, however, provides for a suspension of duty of 5% on such materials, contrary to the intended result.
- I, therefore, propose to provide for a Rebate of Duty, where duty is entirely suspended.
Payment of Levies by Foreign Visitors
- Prior to de-dollarisation, foreign visitors were paying Carbon Tax,
Third Party Insurance and Road Access Fees in foreign currency.
- I propose continuation of payment of the above levies in foreign currency, in order to ensure convenience for such travellers.
Payment of Tax, Fees and Charges in Foreign Currency
- Mr Speaker Sir, for the avoidance of doubt, the only legal tender in the country is the Zimbabwean Dollar as pronounced through Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019, unless exemptions were specified therein.
- Therefore, in cases where exemptions have been issued, taxes shall also be payable in foreign currency.
- Fees and charges on services provided to foreign registered businesses such as airlines flying into Zimbabwe and haulage trucks transiting through Zimbabwe and services that include passports provided by the country’s foreign missions will also be collected in foreign currency.
CONCLUSION
- Mr Speaker Sir, it is said “History has demonstrated that the most notable winners usually encountered heart-breaking obstacles before they triumphed. They won because they refused to become discouraged by their defeats” (B. C. Forbes, Journalist, author, publisher).
- And indeed, during the first half of 2019, tremendous progress was made under the TSP notwithstanding the difficult environment.
- Milestones on the stabilisation front are so far very positive and now constitutes a strong base for the advancement of other reforms, particularly regarding supply stimulation, re-engagement and governance and other structural interventions.
- It is, therefore, now time to really focus on production, productivity, growth, poverty reduction and development, given that the fiscal and monetary policy issues are under control. The prospective investments in mining of US$12 billion, combined with tourism potential, industry reboot from a new position of a competitive domestic currency, infrastructure investments, all point to a bright
future for economic growth, job creation and development. The devolution agenda will galvanize the development thrust at the local level.
- These issues, therefore, constitute the reform agenda for the last half of the year and beyond.
- I, therefore, table the appropriate 2019 Supplementary Estimates of
Expenditure and propose their adoption [Refer to Annex. 1].
- Mr Speaker Sir, following observations and guidance by the
Parliamentary Budget and Finance Portfolio Committee and the Public Accounts Committee, it is my intention to later table relevant and pending financial adjustment bills for condonation.
ANNEXURES
Annexure 1: 2019 Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure
Vote Appropriations |
2019 Estimates |
||
Original Estimates |
Additonal Estimates |
Revised Estimates |
|
|
ZWL$ |
ZWL$ |
ZWL$ |
Office of the President and Cabinet |
294,700,000 |
499,565,000 |
794,265,000 |
Parliament of Zimbabwe |
145,000,000 |
98,937,000 |
243,937,000 |
Labour and Social Welfare |
81,201,000 |
1,083,995,000 |
1,165,196,000 |
Defence, Security and War Veterans |
546,939,000 |
551,201,000 |
1,098,140,000 |
Finance and Economic Development |
273,593,000 |
1,204,884,000 |
1,478,477,000 |
Audit Office |
7,763,000 |
7,140,000 |
14,903,000 |
Industry and Commerce |
47,055,000 |
47,093,000 |
94,148,000 |
Lands, Agriculture and Rural Resettlement |
989,298,000 |
3,392,970,000 |
4,382,268,000 |
Mines & Mining Development |
15,445,000 |
9,600,000 |
25,045,000 |
Environment, Tourism and Hospitality Industry |
38,136,000 |
81,270,000 |
119,406,000 |
Transport and Infrastructural Development |
399,182,000 |
761,295,000 |
1,160,477,000 |
Foreign Affairs |
56,090,000 |
260,075,000 |
316,165,000 |
Local Government, Rural Development and National Housing |
179,886,000 694,467,000 1,132,322,000 380,842,000 44,771,000 517,822,000 155,608,000 45,192,000 53,495,000 16,011,000 17,912,000 27,638,000 279,278,000 5,202,000 3,335,000 2,463,000 8,089,000 6,403,000 14,321,000 2,000,000 10,488,000 2,000,000 |
278,749,000 |
458,635,000 1,201,528,000 1,494,527,000 488,188,000 73,807,000 874,363,000 284,988,000 58,634,000 85,301,000 94,898,000 36,012,000 60,549,000 313,522,000 11,672,000 5,900,000 6,833,000 23,048,000 43,155,000 25,154,000 4,533,000 29,492,000 3,616,000 |
Health and Child Care |
507,061,000 |
||
Primary and Secondary Education |
362,205,000 |
||
Higher & Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development |
107,346,000 |
||
Women Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development |
29,036,000 |
||
Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage |
356,541,000 |
||
Justice, Legal & Parliamentary Affairs |
129,380,000 |
||
Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services |
13,442,000 |
||
Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation |
31,806,000 |
||
Energy & Power Development |
78,887,000 |
||
Information Communication Technology and Courier Services |
18,100,000 |
||
Judicial Services Commission |
32,911,000 |
||
Public Service Commission |
34,244,000 |
||
Council of Chiefs |
6,470,000 |
||
Human Rights Commission |
2,565,000 |
||
National Peace and Reconciliation Commission |
4,370,000 |
||
National Prosecuting Authority |
14,959,000 |
||
Zimbabwe Anti-Corruption Commission |
36,752,000 |
||
Zimbabwe Electoral Commission |
10,833,000 |
||
Zimbabwe Gender Commission |
2,533,000 |
||
Zimbabwe Land Commission |
19,004,000 |
||
Zimbabwe Media Commission |
1,616,000 |
||
TOTAL |
6,493,947,000 |
10,076,835,000 |
16,570,782,000 |
|
351,114,000 |
|
511,000,000 |
Debt Service: Interest Bill |
159,886,000 |
||
Pension |
594,100,000 |
|
817,586,000 |
223,486,000 |
|||
|
|
|
|
Other Constitutional & Statutory Appropriations |
394,432,000 |
720,632,000 |
|
|
|
|
|
Total Expenditure & Net Lending |
7,765,361,000 |
10,854,639,000 |
18,620,000,000 |
Repayment of Loans |
2,550,300,000 |
0 |
2,550,300,000 |
|
|
|
|
Total Expenditure & Net Lending including Loan Repayment |
10,315,661,000 |
10,854,639,000 |
21,170,300,000 |
|
|
|
|
Annexure 2: Slides1-25
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*HON. CHIKUKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I seek clarification that when they came up with this review of the budget did they consider that
…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, the Statement by the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development has been long and exhaustive. Therefore, it will be superficial to start debating it. It is the suggestion of the Chair that you get copies of this delivery, study them and then next week you can make meaningful contributions. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I call upon the Hon. Minister, accordingly to adjourn debate.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. M. NCUBE): Mr. Speaker, I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 6th August, 2019.
Hon. Chidziva having walked into the House and taken a seat.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, I ruled that you are not supposed to be in here because of your boycott. So may you kindly leave the chamber? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
The Hon. Member conceded the Hon. Speaker’s ruling and left the House.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE CERTIFICATE RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I have the following announcements from the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Non-Adverse certificate for Coroner’s Office Bill, I have to inform the House that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on the 1st August, 2019 and considered the Coroner’s Office Bill.
The Committee is of the opinion that the Bill is not in contravention of the Declaration of Rights or any other provisions in the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
NON-ADVERSE CERTIFICATE RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the august House that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on 1st August, 2019 and considered the Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Amendment Bill [H. B. 5, 2019].
The Committee is of the opinion that the Bill is not in contravention of the Declaration of Rights and any other provisions of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY
LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform this august House that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on 1st August, 2019 and considered the Education Amendment Bill [H. B. 1A, 2019].
The Committee is of the opinion that the Bill is in contravention of
Declaration of Rights or any other provisions of the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the august House that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on 1st August, 2019 and considered all Statutory Instruments that were gazetted during the month of July, 2019.
The Committee is of the opinion that Statutory Instruments 146 to 159 are not in contravention of the Declaration of Rights or any other provisions of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Chinyanganya having walked into the House and taken a
seat.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, can you leave the House? – [HON. MEMBERS: Ngaabude! Ngaabude!] - Can you leave the House? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order, order.
The Hon. Member conceded the Hon. Speaker’s ruling and left the House.
TABLING OF NSSA FORENSIC AUDIT REPORT
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, thank you for the opportunity to be able to present to you today the NSSA forensic report.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the National Social Security Authority is the statutory body governed by the NSSA Act. It operates social security schemes for the benefit of employees, current or retired on a compulsory basis for the purpose of providing social protection and security upon retirement. The role of the minister, my role and that of the Board and management is to safeguard the interests of the contributors to the Pension Fund. They have a responsibility as provided by the Act to be accountable, transparent and above all, to ensure good corporate governance of NSSA.
The NSSA forensic audit report was commissioned by the Auditor General, Mrs. Chiri. It covers the period of 1st January, 2015 and the 208th February, 2018. The final report, Mr. Speaker Sir, was presented to me and the newly constituted board in February, 2019. Thereafter, Mr. Speaker Sir, the board identified key issues emerging from the NSSA forensic audit.
These issues, Mr. Speaker Sir, relate to corporate governance, investments, properties, ICT and human resources. In all these key issues that I have mentioned there are some significant irregularities. In view of that, as Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare in the spirit of maintaining transparency, I proceeded to engage a team of legal experts whose role was to provide council on each of the emerging issues from the forensic report.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the engagement of lawyers required a procurement process and due diligence. This process of engaging lawyers took two months, hence the delay in tabling this report. However, the findings of the legal experts will be absolutely material in assisting my Ministry and the board in ensuring that the issues raised in this forensic report are attended to in pursuit of good corporate governance, accountability and transparency.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the findings in this report and the annexure here presented will guide us in determining which issues are seen by the legal experts as criminal. What is presented here would also help NSSA to determine issues that are purely management and may require disciplinary action.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Ministry is working closely with the AntiCorruption Unit. They have the report. Internally I shall ensure that we follow best practices within the labour legislative framework. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare remains absolutely committed to maintaining transparency in protecting the interests of the contributors to the pension fund. The forensic audit report therefore provides us with a framework to review the operations of NSSA so that we remain accountable and transparent to the people who have entrusted us with the money.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I hereby table the NSSA forensic report as promised. The report is being printed and members will be able to get the copies and the annexures that are bound here in three copies. This report, Mr. Speaker Sir, is presented to you in full as requested. Thank you.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: Kubhadharwa $25 ini ndakacontributa
10 years.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba can you allow the
Chair to speak.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you, Hon. Minister for your exhaustive summary. I want to believe that Members of Parliament will apply their minds to the report and contribute constructively on the way forward. Thank you.
COMMITTEE STAGE
ZIMBABWE INVESTMENT DEVELOPMENT AGENCY BILL [H.
- 2, 2019]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: Zimbabwe Investment
Development Agency Bill [H. B. 2, 2019].
House in Committee.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order please. Hon. Members, order.
THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON.
- M. NDLOVU): Mr. Chairman, I move that you report progress and seek leave to sit again. Thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Tuesday, 6th August, 2019.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND
MONITORING (HON. DR. GUMBO): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 2, to 4 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 5 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF THE ADVERSE REPORT BY THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE ON THE
MAINTENANCE OF PEACE AND ORDER BILL [H. B. 3, 2019] Fifth Order read: Committee: Consideration of the adverse report by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill [H. B. 3, 2019].
Question again proposed.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I would
like to move a motion to withdraw the adverse report passed on the
Maintenance of Peace and Order Bill. The Committee met on the 1st of August and considered the notice of amendments signed by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs and resolved to withdraw the adverse report previously issued as the notice of amendments addresses the Committee’s concerns. I so move Mr. Speaker Sir.
Motion put and agreed to.
Adverse Report accordingly withdrawn.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Adverse Report: With leave, withdrawn.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS IN CHARGE OF
IMPLEMENTATION AND MONITORING (HON. DR. GUMBO),
the House adjourned at Eleven Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until 6th August, 2019.
[1] Current Account numbers are in US dollars.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, I have received apologies from the following ministers: - Hon. O. Ncube, Minister of State for National Security; Hon. Dr. O. Moyo, Minister of Health and Child Care; Hon. Prof. Mavima, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education and Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development.
PRESENTATION OF THE 2019 MID-TERM FISCAL POLICY AND
SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET STATEMENT
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that tomorrow, Thursday 1st August, 2019, the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development will present the 2019 Mid-Term Fiscal Policy and Supplementary Budget Statement.
SUBMISSION OF LISTS OF HEALTH CLINICS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Health and Child Care is requesting all Hon. Members to urgently (within the next three weeks) submit lists of health clinics that they built individually or together with their constituency members or communities. This will help inform plans for universal health coverage (UHC) and enable the Ministry of Health and Child Care to mobilise support and partnerships for these clinics.
HON. MAMOMBE: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I am rising on a point of privilege. Hon. Speaker, during the COP 24, the ministers adopted the Ministerial Katowice Declaration on the Forests for Climate. The Declaration that was signed highlighted the role of sustainable forest management in achieving climate neutrality. Hon. Deputy
Minister Haritatos attended this COP 24 and also the Environmental
Law Organisations together with people such as the People and Earth Solidarity Network who have shown that Zimbabwe has already lost many trees due to tobacco farming and also the absence of electricity.
Hon. Speaker, I am rising on this Point of Privilege to say that our Government is now investing in the community stone-age bakeries that are potentially disastrous for climate change and this is going to affect us as a country. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, a Point of Privilege must be constructive and if an Hon. Member wants to debate an issue against
Government policy, please do so by way of a motion. So, that Point of
Privilege is unsustainable. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question was directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care who happens not to be in the House. In that case, I can direct it to the Leader of Government Business.
Hon. Chair, on one of our visits with the Health Committee, I noted at St Lukes Hospital which is acting as a provincial hospital for
Matabeleland North, there is a project being spearheaded by somebody
to produce intravenous device (drip). So I just wanted to hear from the Minister how much support they are giving to that project so that we stop importing drips. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, with all due respect that is a specific project. You need a question that deals with national policy which encompasses the country, not a specific project.
HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. What is your Ministry doing to alleviate water shortages arising from power outages? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking this very important question. Yes, there has been water shortages because of electricity outages in pumping stations in most of our urban areas. Two weeks ago, we agreed with the Minister of Energy and Power
Development, and we were given all the pumping stations throughout
the country which include those run by ZINWA, some which are run by local authorities, that these pumping stations for water as well as for sewerage should not experience these power cuts because it is both a health hazard as well as a need for people to have water. So, we hope that ZESA has been directed to ensure that power outages for pumping of water and for pumping of sewerage waste water treatment should not be taking place. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Hon. Minister there is erratic water supply because of electricity outages but we have so many places especially Gweru where water is non-existent, the greatest challenge being that Gwenoro Dam, the main supplier is not able to supply. As a Ministry, what are you doing to address the issue of water as you are aware that the shortages of water can lead to various diseases?
I thank you.
*HON. J. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The water challenge is beyond the fact that there are power outages especially in Gweru. Specifically in Gweru, Gwenoro Dam is only left with a few months for it to be able to sustain the city, but there is a dam that is 74% full called Amapongokwe. The challenge is that there are no pumps at Amapongokwe. So we are working with Gweru City Council and the mayor, that this is an emergency and we have put in place measures to secure the pumps. We need four pumps to supply Gweru with water before the end of the two months that Gwenoro Dam can sustain the city. I want to assure the people of Gweru that we are going to get four pumps in order to alleviate the water challenge. I thank you.
*HON. CHIBAYA: A point of clarity Mr. Speaker Sir. I thank the Hon. Minister for that convincing response. I wanted to find out, considering the measures that you have, how long will it take for us to have pumps at Nyamapongokwe because the issue of water in Gweru is a big challenge?
*HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the point of clarification raised. I said that Gwenoro Dam was only left with two months’ supply of water. Council made a tender which was outrageous and required a lot of money, but we have now been able to get pumps that can pump more water than what was there. Because of the pumps that we are going to acquire from South Africa that are genuine, we are hoping to have those before the two months for use at Nyamapongokwe so that we can address the water challenge. I thank you.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
supplementary question is - the Hon. Minister said they engaged the Minister of Power and Energy Development over the issue but Mr.
Speaker Sir, up to now all the local authorities are still cut off. What is being done to expedite the process because water is a critical component in the lives of people and ZESA is prioritising none essential services, cutting off critical services like water pumping? I think something needs to be done as soon as possible.
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, while I can assure this august House that we have done everything in order to make sure that water pumping systems are not cut off from ZESA, we cannot then micromanage and know whether ZESA has cut off on this one or the other one. There is another ongoing discussion which we are having with the Minister of Energy and Power Development about the indebtedness of most of our urban local authorities which is necessitating ZESA to cut them off and we are saying let us discuss this. We are arranging a meeting so that we can discuss with all the urban local authorities, but for those who need to pump, we think that the arrangements that we have made should suffice for now. I thank you.
HON. SHIRICHENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Can the Minister update this House on whether or not the Ministry has a figure of what exactly the nation has to avoid starvation in terms of grain stocks.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Minister of Agriculture and Lands can best answer the question.
HON. SHIRICHENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. If the Minister of Social Welfare cannot answer that, can the Minister of Agriculture answer the question?
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER,
CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We currently have enough stocks of maize to allow us to import more maize to meet the shortfall. It is common knowledge that we had a drought during the last season. We estimate that we will get a national yield of about 775 thousand tonnes this year and will have a shortfall of slightly over a million tonnes, which will have to be imported into the country. We have buffer stocks and have started the importation programme. No one is going to starve.
HON. BITI: In view of the huge shortage of over a million...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Chibaya, I name you
for the second time.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, my supplementary to the Minister is: how much does the GMB have in its stocks at the present moment? Connected to that, in view of this huge shortage of over a million metric tonnes of maize, why did the Minister enact Statutory 145 of 2019 and impose GMB monopoly when we do not have the maize anyway? I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. As to the exact quantities of grain being held by GMB, that is a specific question and I will need time to go and get the exact figures. As to why we came up with a Statutory Instrument, the reason is that GMB ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Minister. Please take a seat. Hon. Biti, you asked a question.
HON. BITI: I am listening Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, you cannot listen and talk at the same time, please.
HON. BITI: I withdraw my talking Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: As to
why we can up with a Statutory Instrument Mr. Speaker Sir, we want to ensure that all the grain in the country is accounted for and is available for consumption at affordable prices. If we allow everyone to access the maize, especially some of the companies, we end up with maize being not made readily available to the consumers and at times being made available at exorbitant prices. A very good example is that of bread. We are currently releasing wheat to the millers. The bakers, instead of producing bread, they producing confectioneries because they get much more from selling confectioneries. The little bread that is baked is availed to consumers through the black market at very exorbitant prices. We will not allow a repeat of such a situation to happen in as far as the staple food is concerned. Not in a million years Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, with great respect, you cannot impose a monopoly when the product is in short supply. What in fact you need to do is to liberalise and allow everyone to buy and everyone to sell. Hon. Minister, can you do the right thing and withdraw SI 145 of 2019.
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I gave a live example relating to wheat. There is no monopoly in terms of the supply of wheat or the procurement of wheat but look at what is happening on the market. Some elements in the private sector have decided to deliberately ensure that the consumers do not get the product at affordable prices, hence we will not allow the same to happen in as far as the staple food, which is maize is concerned.
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I want the Minister to clarify whether he understands that the imposition of SI 145 of 2019 is ultra vires the Competitions Act that allows any player to be involved in the business where anybody would be in competition. In addition, there are some people who want to buy maize for themselves rather than to buy from GMB. Why is he imposing the SI against the Competitions Act?
Does he understand and know the provisions of Competitions Act?
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. It is not that I have imposed a blanket ban on the procurement of maize. We have allowed people to buy up to five bags, those who want to use for domestic consumption at home. In as far as the issue of Anti-monopolies Act, as long as there is clear demonstration that there are some elements who are acting against the interests of the consumer, Government will always be there to protect the interest of the consumer.
HON. J. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this rare opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare. What is the Government policy position with regards to those people that are unemployed. You will notice that of late or in the recent past months, the Ministry of Government has been cushioning civil servants against...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that is more than a lower
opportunity. Ask your question please.
HON. J. SITHOLE: Okay, thank you Mr. Speaker. What is
Government policy position with regards to cushioning of the meager incomes of those people that are not employed against the ever rising cost of basic commodities?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, I do not understand the
question because...
An Hon. Member having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just take a seat Hon. Member. If I understood you will Hon. Sithole, you are saying people who are unemployed should be cushioned? Is that what you are saying?
HON. S. SITHOLE: Yes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, please be aware that we do not
have social welfare system like they have in Britain for example, where those who are unemployed get something from the State. So, I hesitate to call upon the Minister to answer that question. –[HON. SIKHALA:
Any plans to introduce that?]- That should be a separate question.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, in his absence the Leader of this House and in his absence, his proxy.
Some school inspectors...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just a moment. Do we have an Acting
Minister of Primary and Secondary Education? Sorry, the Leader of Government Business is not here as well. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]- Order, order. Proceed with your question.
HON. TSUNGA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. It
appears Ministers are caucusing to try and establish who the Leader of the House is.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just go on.
HON. TSUNGA: Some school inspectors are instructing some school heads not to accept school equipment from Members of Parliament; which equipment has been procured through CDF. What is the Ministry’s policy in regard to acceptance of such and other equipment from MPs in the various schools? Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order that sounds like a specific question from a constituency. Perhaps you could bring it under written questions. HON. TSUNGA: It is an important question Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just a moment, you must understand my
ruling. I said your question titivates towards what is happening in your constituency and not nationally. [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection]- Order, order1. In that case, please submit your question in writing. Thank you.
+HON. S. MATHE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare Hon. Nzenza. We want to know your policy regarding trucks that are carrying maize in GMB trucks in different districts and we want to know where they will be taking the maize to? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you understand the
import of the question?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): I have
heard the question Mr. Speaker Sir, but I would like it to be more specific so that I fully understand the circumstances that she is referring to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -Mr. Speaker Sir, the
policy...
Hon. T. Mliswa having said something about NSSA
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Mliswa, you asked a
question yesterday about the NSSA report and I ruled that it will be tabled tomorrow. So, I find it extremely disconcerting that people are starting to shout about the NSSA report that does not arise. Hon. Minister, the trend is movement of grain from the various areas of the country into GMB instead of that same maize being distributed for drought relief where this maize is being taken from. That is the import of the question.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, the policy regarding grain distribution is that it should come from Aspindale to the GMB within the ten provinces. The policy is that we must distribute grain to the nearest district and where possible, to the ward level. However, if there is a situation where this policy is not being followed, it is my responsibility as the Minister of Public Service and Social Welfare to ensure that we investigate an anomaly and that will be rectified.
HON. MATHE: As the Minister has already said if there is an anomaly, but my supplementary is that we cannot have more than ten lorries loading in one district. That means there is something that will be happening in that district and why is it the same trucks who would have delivered, we see the same trucks again loading the grain to another district?
HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA: The Hon. Member is
suggesting that there is a specific incident and my request is that she gives me the specific incidences so that I will investigate and give the appropriate answer –[HON. P.D. SIBANDA: On a point of order!] -:
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, go back to your place, I have not recognised you. You look for a mic once you have been recognised, that is the procedure.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order! Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. In the interest of fairness in the manner in which we are treated here, I think there was a ruling that you made on an issue that was raised by Hon. Tsunga where he was talking about the process in which Members of Parliament can donate goods to public institutions. I was thinking that was a national issue, then another question…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Can you seat down. Hon. Mathe, it would appear you are referring to some specific issue, can you bring that to the attention of the Minister directly and she will assist you. You - [HON. P.D SIBANDA: Inaudible interjections.] - There is no debate in terms of point of order. I have ruled that Hon. Mathe should give details.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, why these other Members of Parliament seem to be disgruntled, is in terms of Section 3, of our Standing Rules and Orders that governs this august House. They state that the procedures and processes of Parliament must promote transparence, must encourage the involvement of Members of all political parties in Parliament and must be fair and just. Mr. Speaker Sir, why Hon. P.D. Sibanda and Hon. Hamauswa rose to try and persuade you Hon. Chair, is on the basis that they feel that the treatment of one of their Members is not in terms of Standing Rules and Orders of our own House which are provided for in this book. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The fact that I recognise you to state what you have just said, Hon. Hamauswa, was recognised, he is from my left side, and I do not know what you are talking about.
HON. MAFUTA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Is it a Government policy that the monthly pension dues are paid in installments?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KUNHUTU-NZENZA): It is
Government policy that monthly pensions are paid monthly. I thank you.
HON. MAGO: Does the Minister know that these pensioners are being paid in installments? A pensioner who is supposed to get $90 a month is getting it in installments of $20 a week instead.
HON. DR. KUNHUTU-NZENZA: Thank you Member of
Parliament – [HON. SIKHALA: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Sikhala!
HON. DR. KUNHUTU-NZENZA: If there is a specific question where the monthly pension is not being paid monthly as the Hon. Member has said there is an incident where it is being paid in installments, then I would like to know more about that situation.
HON. GONESE: On a point of privilege! We have got the utmost respect for the Hon. Chair and Hon. Members of Parliament. It is our considered view that when we are in this august House, like the adage which says justice must not only be done but it must also be seen to be done. I raise this point; it is not the substance on the ruling, when Hon. Sikhala raised a point of order, it resonated very well with Hon.
Members on your left. The point Mr. Speaker is not so much about the Chair being entitled to make rulings but rather it is on the manner in which some of those rulings are made. For instance, when Hon.
Hamauswa rose on his point of order…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. GONESE: I beg your indulgence, this is the reason…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I said I have heard your complaint. This is question time, do not waste time.
HON. GONESE: I agree Mr. Speaker but it also affects the whole question time because Hon. Members will continue raising issues and we feel that the manner in which they are being responded to is in violation of the preamble which Hon. Sikhala referred to. The preamble is quite clear…
HON. SPEAKER: I understand the preamble very well.
HON. GONESE: This is the reason why we are just begging you to appreciate where we are coming from, to understand that our position is that if it is a matter of a ruling being made, it is the manner in which it is being delivered. That is why I said justice must not only be done but it must be seen to be done. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I heard you Hon. Gonese and I also beg you to understand. I cannot accept an Hon. Member rising from that corner there, coming over here before that Hon. Member is recognised – that is unprocedural. Hon. Sibanda should have stood there, recognised and then he comes to the microphone – that is perfectly procedural. I shall not be schooled on that matter.
On the question of Hon. Hamauswa, yes he raised the issue about Hon. Tsunga and I accepted that. This is why I told Hon. Mathe to adhere to what the Hon. Minister indicated that she must bring her question in writing because it titivated towards a specific situation. I could not be more just than that. – [HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, can I come in so that I can pacify the situation as an Independent!] -
You want to pacify the situation. No, you will do so after Hon.
Nyamudeza.
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, my question is
directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. What measures does the Government have in conserving the water that we only get once a year? I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Excuse me Hon. Member, where is the
water coming from? You mean rainfall? That is fine.
*THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. SEN. RTD.
AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Government is trying by all means to ensure that we conserve water through the construction of dams and weirs in order to harness rainfall water for use. Government is also encouraging people not to farm close to river banks which will cause siltation. Once siltation occurs, it means water cannot be retained in the dams or rivers.
Where there are dams that had already dried up due to siltation, we are engaged in a process of de-silting the dams in order to make them viable again. In short, that is what we are doing as Government. I thank you.
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Minister, may you give clarification as to how many dams you have targeted per year for water conservation? What is the target in terms of dams per year and which parts of the country, for example in various provinces? I thank you.
*HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. Our aim is to construct as many dams as possible in line with the funding that we have – that includes de-siltation of dams. It depends on the available funds. We are doing this throughout the country and we are not preferring one province over the other.
Areas like Matabeleland South, Masvingo and southern
Manicaland are dry areas, so we try by all means to have more dams or weirs but on the issue of siltation – it is something that is all over. The limiting factor is the available funds that are allocated on an annual basis. What pleases me is the fact that Hon. Members can see the challenge that we are facing. I am sure that in the next few months the budget will consider the issue of water especially considering the fact that this year is a drought year. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, a year like this one is a unique year in terms of water shortages such that they have reached a critical level. What is Government doing to ensure that the water situation is generally alleviated besides what we are seeing that we see borehole drilling machines going into areas where there are byelections? Where there are no by-elections, what is Government doing to ensure that people access water?
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir, I was requested by this august House to present a Ministerial Statement on measures to address drought induced water problems throughout the country. I am ready to make the presentation at your pleasure Mr. Speaker Sir and it should address all the issues of concern being raised. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I then was hesitant to bring in a supplementary after he alluded to the fact that he was going to present a
Ministerial Statement…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, so you withdraw?
HON. NDUNA: Unless you indulge me Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no, I thought that you were being very sensible – [HON. NDUNA: Yes, I am Mr. Speaker Sir.] – Withdraw.
HON. NDUNA: Therefore I withdraw Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education and in his absence, I will direct it to the Leader of the House – [AN HON. MEMBER: Hamuna, there is no Leader!] – Mr. Speaker Sir, do I proceed?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you for your indulgence, you can proceed with the question. The Acting Leader of Government Business is Hon. Dr. Gumbo.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We hear that Canada has availed educational funds for the girl child and women in this country. My question is, when is that fund going to be accessible and which office should we approach if we want to access that fund? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR PRESIDENTIAL
AFFAIRS IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND
MONITORING (HON. DR. GUMBO): I want to thank the Hon.
Member for the question but it is really a question that needs a specific answer which I have to research and ask from the responsible Minister or Ministry. So, it is not a policy question which I can answer. I would ask the Hon. Member to put it in writing. Thank you.
*HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement concerning land disputes. In rural areas, people are engaged in land disputes especially pertaining to boundaries. I do not know what can be done for that issue to be addressed.
*THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR
CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): The issue of land boundaries is that all properties have boundaries and the challenge is that there is no fence to show the demarcation. These are just points that can be joined in order to explain the boundary that causes conflict between people who do not know where exactly the boundary is. So those with the properties, we encourage them to demarcate and show where the boundaries are. Those who face challenges can engage the Land Commission which can contact the Surveyor General who will be able to clear the boundary disputes that are prevailing. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. NDUNA: Hon. Minister, the other reasons why the boundaries are causing problems are the issues with the Land Commissioners. What measures do you have to address the issues of conflict that is caused by the land officers so that these land disputes in terms of boundaries are brought to an end because this is clear to the people and to the farmers?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You have asked Hon. Member, why are you explaining?
HON. NDUNA: Has it been heard, Mr. Speaker?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, it has been heard.
HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for his question. The challenge that I have is that no one has really brought up a challenge involving corruption by land officers. So, there is no evidence to that effect. For us to be able to address those issues we need the individuals, but my request is that if there is corruption there is normally more than one person. Those affected should bring the evidence and then we can go and make sure that the land officers are dealt with in line with the laws of the land. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think we need to find traditional leaders to address these issues.
HON. SHUMBAMHINI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, Hon. J. Moyo. Hon. Minister, where are we in the implementation of Command Housing Projects and also, are you going to take rural communities on board? Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you asking two questions at the same time? You are allowed only one question. Okay, you are combining.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): Thank
you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for his question on
Command Housing as well as what we are going to do in the rural areas.
Yes, we have started with a number of companies that are part of the
Command Housing structure. In the implementation stage, we said in the
Command Housing we need to mobilise all the stakeholders. We now have those who are mobilised architects who are involved with pension funds to try to get land so that they can do Command Housing but in specific terms, we said we want to start with regeneration and I am glad to say in Sakubva, we will be launching regeneration of Sakubva in the month of August.
This will be followed by several others where individuals, banks, pension funds as well as developers, proper developers who will be engaged in doing command housing, but we are not leaving out the rural
areas.
I have said this in this august House that what we desire is that your business centres, your rural service centres as well as your growth points become centres for building back better and we do this by accession of land, that is where there is a business centre where there is rural service centre so that people can have title deeds in those areas. We are all aware that we cannot have title deeds in farming areas, communal or commercial, but we have made a policy as Government to say we need those who go and invest in the rural areas in certain specified areas to have title deeds and we can only do this by having accession and doing survey for title and proper planning. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. What I need to know from the Hon. Minister is in relation to the title deeds towards those houses that are going to be built, aware that there is quite a lot of houses both in the urban and peri urban set up that have not had their title deeds since 1916. As it relates to this command housing, what is going to be happening in terms of title to those houses towards those occupants that are going to be owners of these houses?
HON. J. MOYO: I want to thank the Hon. Member Mr. Speaker. We inherited a housing stock at independence where there were block titles. All your townships were under block titles and when Government declared that they wanted home ownership, the survey for title has taken too long even in those areas where Government desires that people have home ownership and have the title deeds. So in your old townships, we still have those problems to deal with.
In the recent past, it is common knowledge that a lot of people were building houses on land that was originally commercial farming area and had been handed over to Government. They started building houses without surveys for title being undertaken and the likes of Caledonia or Harare South, the buildings took place before cardinal surveys were undertaken and we have to regularise as if we are dealing with the townships of before independence. We have a big task in order for our people to have title but it is preferable and it is Government policy that a person who has title to their piece of land to their house is a more secure person than those who do not have. Government’s desire is that we do it and we must do it. In order to do it, the resources must be put in place and I am sure that at an opportune time, the Minister of Finance whom we have been discussing with will announce what has to be done so that we can achieve our objective. I want to thank you Mr.
Speaker.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir, in the 1980s, a similar project was done although by a different name. I think it was called national housing scheme or something of that sort. Now, it is called command housing. What I recall about that 1980’s scheme is that houses were built only in Zvimba and in Gutu, those were the two places and the houses are still there. It is not by coincident, the then President came from Zvimba and the then Vice President came from Gutu. What assurance do we have that this time around, the houses will not be built in Mapanzure and Chiweshe?
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member’s
recollection of history, if it needs to be corrected, I can only confirm that we declared growth points, not in Zvimba and Gutu only. We declared growth points throughout the country and all district headquarters in this country were declared as growth points as opposed to the 13 declared townships that were there during colonial time. It is in those areas, your Gokwes, your Bingas which were declared growth points that you started seeing planned housing.
Those houses are a testimony whether you go to Buhera, Kezi or to any place, you will see houses that came because we had declared growth points. Growth points meant there is proper physical planning and proper housing development in declared areas. It cannot be said, even though he alludes because of the former President or the former
Vice President that it happened only in those places, it is not true.
Thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question is, whilst the Hon. Minister has explained a very noble project with regard to the command housing, I need him to explain clearly to this House, what the capacity of the Government currently, bearing in mind the cocktail of challenges that we have as a country to sustain that desire to have command housing with all what we are going through? We think of building a new suburb under these circumstances.
Is that practical or it is a politicking process?
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, if you look at the Skyline here in Harare, that Skyline was not built by public funds, it was built by your pension funds, by your insurances, by banking investing in those properties and we are no better today. The private sector, including our pension funds, our insurance schemes are ready to build and they are the ones who are assisting in command housing. Properties, whether it is residential, commercial or industrial, in most countries and we are no exception, are not built directly by public funds. Yesterday, when we were accessing international financing, you could get a loan from one multinational institution or bilateral institution but that was only supplementary to the resources that were mobilised through your insurance which is your first savings and your pension funds which is also your first saving. We still want to access that. When I last interacted with the pension schemes in this country in Victoria Falls, they indicated to me that they are sitting on investable funds and they are looking for permanent solutions in terms of buildings. If you have a pension scheme, it is better to put it in brick and motor than to put in money markets. This is what we are urging our pension funds. We have to mobilise these funds so that we can build for our people, both residential, commercial and industrial. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
+HON. MAHLANGU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for the opportunity that I have been given to add my voice. My question is directed to the Minister of Health but since he is not around, the Leader of the House will respond. I want to know the Government policy regarding maternity fees. I thank you.
+THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mahlangu, may you please
explain further on what exactly you are saying concerning maternity fees?
+HON. MAHLANGU: I want to know what is the Government policy concerning maternity fees. Are the patients supposed to pay any fees when they go to hospitals, especially those who are pregnant?
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR PRESIDENTIAL
AFFAIRS IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND
MONITORING (HON. DR. GUMBO): Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I will attempt to answer the question from the knowledge that I have. For maternity fees, I think the Government policy is that people do not pay but at private hospitals, people do pay for maternity fees.
+HON. MALANGU: Thank you Hon. Minister. I asked this question because I want to know whether the expecting mothers are supposed to pay for the maternity registration fee or not. If they are supposed to pay, I want to know when was this policy put into practice. I have realised that when you go to different hospitals, one of the officers will tell you the policy was enacted in 2011 and the other one would tell you that in 2008. As I speak, in different communities there are letters that members of the community received backdating as far as 2008 that they owe the hospital.
HON. DR. GUMBO: I think with all due respect to the question by the Hon. Member - that is really a very specific question which requires detail. She is mentioning of some years and that will also need some research in order for somebody to be able to give a satisfactory answer to say when the policy might have started to be implemented.
So, with all due respect, I think it is a pertinent question which I think must be put in writing so that the people can know when that policy started to be implemented since you are talking of 2008 and also after 2008 so that the nation can know when the policy is available. As I put it across, it is Government policy that at Government Hospitals you do not pay but at private hospitals you pay and that is the policy.
HON. MBONDIAH: My supplementary question goes to the fact
that in public hospitals or Government hospitals, expecting mothers are asked to bring syringes, needles, gloves and buckets of water when they go to deliver. Is that Government policy that they do that in Government hospitals?
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR PRESIDENTIAL
AFFAIRS IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTATION AND
MONITORING (HON. DR. J. GUMBO) on behalf of THE
MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. O.
MOYO): Thank you Mr. Speaker. With all due respect, that question would require the Hon. Minister responsible for the Ministry.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Ministers must be able to respect both the House and the Chair. When the first supplementary question was asked to the Hon. Minister, he tried to say that that question is specific whilst the Chair is the one who should make the determination whether that question is specific or not. We do not want these Hon. Ministers to come and hijack both the powers of our Chair and the powers of the House. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] - So, I am protecting the sacrosanctity of the Chair and of this House that when the Chair has already made a ruling, they must answer the question because you would have already made a determination. These Ministers want to overthrow you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. What I can only say is that as they say in Shona, ndichiripanyanga. On a more serious note, when the Hon. Minister is acting, you must appreciate that he is acting and in that case, you need to exercise some measure of empathy so that those questions where it is not clear, I want to believe that the Hon. Acting Leader of Government Business has noted the issues and the details about what Hon. Mahlangu and Hon. Mbondiah has raised. We will bring this to the attention of the Hon. Minister of Health so that next week the Hon. Minister of Health can clarify some of those issues.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I really want to
read this question because I drafted it and I do not want it to be offside for fear of the Minister trying to run away from answering. Could the
Minister explain why the due process was not followed when the former
Ambassador of Great Britain to Zimbabwe, Catriona Laing adopted a Zimbabwean child in 2017? It is my understanding that substantial money was illegally paid to your predecessor Hon. Prisca Mupfumira to facilitate this and that the matter is now the subject of criminal investigation. As a result of the child inure who has now been taken out of Zimbabwe by Ms. Laing not to the choice of her family, can you assure us that this matter will be investigated fully and that the efforts will be made to return the child to her family if it is established that the offences took place?
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, I just want to begin by reassuring Hon. Mliswa that I never left the country and if he might have heard that, we must not dwell on social media fake news. Now that I have put that matter to rest, the matter of –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Mr. Speaker Sir, I am not aware of the matter that the Hon. Member of Parliament refers to. I will however seek more information and more clarity from him, perhaps in writing, that will help me so much. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, when one of your Members
of Parliament has asked a real question, I expect that you protect me. The end of that question was simple. Can you assure us that this matter will be investigated fully and efforts will be made to return the child to the family if it is established that it truly happened? That is how meticulous I was in putting this question together.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. DR. KANHUTU-NZENZA): Mr.
Speaker Sir, it is my Ministry’s responsibility to ensure that policies are followed regarding the adopting of children as stipulated in Children’s
Act. The matter that has been brought in this House’s attention will be looked at. Thank you.
HON. NDUNA: My question goes to the Minister of Home
Affairs, seeing that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is not here. It is in relationship to debt collectors that are engaged by various Ministries, Ministry of Health, hospitals and councils, that are now conducting their business in a way that is inclined to some criminal conduct; which is why I have directed the question to the Minister of Home Affairs.
Therefore my question is, is it Government policy that the debt collectors that are engaged willy-nilly without an Act of Parliament will always put a 10% on top of the figure that is owed if that money has not been paid on the date of collection. If so, what is it that he is able to do to stop that wanton disregard of law?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MADIRO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. First of all, anything that is done illegally, the laws are there to follow criminals but the question that the Hon. Member has asked really deals with the Ministry of Justice.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the question asked by the
Hon. Member was once asked in this House and the Minister of Local Government, National Housing and Public Works, Hon. July Moyo brought a Ministerial statement here. There is also a running high court judgment that has prohibited the operations of debt collectors, either by councils or to be hired by any institution of the State as this is ultra vires the Constitution of our country. If these debt collectors are still existing in our local authorities and also in our hospitals masquerading as legal practitioners, what enforcement mechanisms have you put in place since the High Court has already made a ruling and Minister Moyo has already given us a statement here so that these debt collectors will not be seen anywhere near service delivery? We want protection mechanisms which you as the Government have put in place to protect the consumers.
HON. MADIRO: Indeed once a law has been broken, the law will
take its course. Like I have said earlier on, I have taken note of the question from the Hon. Member. We will look into it and follow things up and see what is taking place.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to have this House record that on Monday, I received a message from Adam Shent, who sent me a message and said, “Can you please call, regards” and I did not and I said, “who are you sir?” He said, “I am Sekesai Nzenza’s husband who you have been defaming”. He then went on to say that,
“you are such a blow hard. Sure, Sekesai is my wife but I support her 100%. The fact that you even mentioned bedroom issues shows what a cheap sexist dog you are, who feels mortally threatened by a strong independent good looking woman.
I am saying this so that it is recorded that I am under threat by her husband and I have this on WhatsApp. He called me a sexist dog and I have it here as evidence. I want to know what action Parliament will take because we are discharging our duties as Members of Parliament and we are being threatened – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I want to know the course of action Parliament will take.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I
have noted your point of privilege, it will be looked into – [HON.
MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question goes to the Hon. Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Your Ministry has sent circulars to local authorities, instructing local authorities to delegate their powers of allocating land, procurement powers to management of councils under the guise that it is going to speed up the ease of doing business. Is that circular not equivalent to usurping the powers that are vested in elected councillors by both the Urban Councils Act and the Rural District Councils Act?
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J. MOYO): I want to thank the Hon. Member for that question. The question that he has stated is very critical to corporate governance, both in the Procurement Act better known as PRAZ and in the Finance Management Act, that is what is captured where Government is trying to separate at national level what we as ministers ought to do and what the officials, headed by the Permanent Secretaries ought to do. When that was cascaded to local authorities, one has to separate what the elected councillors have to do and what their appointed permanent staff has to do, headed by the Town Clerk. In the rural district council areas, that will be headed by the Chief Executive Officer of the RDC.
So essentially, what they are saying is that the policy setting by the collective wisdom of the council of elected councillors will be taken on board. When you operationalise and now are allocating, that will be done by the people who are professionally hired by the councillors. So we cannot be usurping power from the council. We only want to make corporate governance work better and that is the intention of the
Procurement Regulatory Authority of Zimbabwe (PRAZ) Act as well as the Public Finance and Management Act. The circular is just to make sure that it takes place in all the councils throughout the country. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, in terms of both the Urban Councils Act and the Rural District Council Act, powers to allocate land and allocate procurement of services is vested into elected councillors because they are the people who have the direct mandate of the citizens to run the resources of the citizens within that local authority.
My question that I had initially asked is, how do you take away those powers that are vested by an Act of Parliament to technocrats? Is that not as good as violating a law that was set by Parliament?
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, sequentially, the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act came before the PRAZ Act as well as the Public Finance and Management Acts and when Parliament passes a later version of an Act which is in contradiction with an earlier Act – the last one takes precedence. I think that you can understand that and that is what has happened. We have not amended it but if you have a later Act that contradicts an earlier Act passed by this Parliament, that which was there before is superseded. That is what has happened. We have just made a point of ensuring that we explain it so that there is no ambiguity – he can tell you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I have a request to make Hon. Speaker
because this is a very important matter. As citizens, we elect people into offices, we do not appoint the management of councils but we elect councillors and vest our trust that they will run our resources in them and because we have a direct control as citizens over those councillors to an extent that if they do not act in the manner that we want - we take away our mandate that we would given them.
I do not want to agree with the Hon. Minister when he says, ‘If we pass a new law then it automatically supersedes’, unless if that law states so specifically. So, it is my view Hon. Speaker, that this matter is an important matter. I want to request that the Hon. Minister comes to present a Ministerial Statement because what we are seeing is a scenario where the Executive wants to take away the powers of the citizens in terms of management of their resources and put them into managers who are actually appointed by the Executive. They are not appointed by councillors – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – They are appointed by the Executive.
Now, the Hon. Minister wants to promote a scenario where his direct appointees are the ones who are going to allocate land and tenders for any procurement that is taking place in local authorities. So I believe Hon. Speaker that we need to deliberate on this issue at length and therefore, I request that the Hon. Minister informs this House as to when he is going to present a Ministerial Statement so that we can engage over that issue. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am only stating what is in law and I cannot come and make a Ministerial Statement on what is in law. The fact of the matter is, we have not taken away the powers of the council. I said that council is made up of elected people and those who they appoint and are not appointed by me. I have never appointed a Chief Executive Officer of a council or a Town Clerk – the processes required to appoint them are very clear and captured in law.
Oversight just like us as ministers, I do not sit on allocation of land neither do I sit in terms of procurement but the question is, I still have oversight. Councillors have oversight over everything that is done by their own officers and that remains the law. The law was not made by me. I can only implement it. So I cannot be presenting a statement on an issue that I know is in law. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Point of clarification Hon. Speaker!
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order,
order, but that is the last one Hon. Sibanda.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes, this is the last one. Hon. Speaker, can I give you the background that brings me to ask this question?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I thought you said that you
wanted a point of clarification?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes, it is a point of clarification Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker, I want to give you a situation that happened in one local authority.
An investor came into a local authority area and wanted to set up something there. The Chief Executive Officer, acting in terms of that circular said that, ‘I cannot wait for a full council to approve the project. I am going to approve it for purposes of ease of doing business,’ but without any approval from councillors. Then he says, ‘No, I will only get condonation from councillors after the project had been approved’. Meanwhile, citizens in that local authority area were complaining that they did not want that project and the only person that they can take their complaints to is a councillor.
So I strongly believe that it is important that the Hon. Minister, even if he wants to argue that it is a provision of law; let him come before this House and we will also bring the necessary statutes and enquire into whether that conduct which the Hon. Minister has done is proper or not. So the Hon. Minister cannot say that ‘I do not want to come and present a Ministerial Statement’, because he thinks that is what the law says, but that is not what we are saying and that is not how we view it. We are saying that the only way that we can settle that Hon.
Speaker is for the Hon. Minister to come before Parliament and submit a
Ministerial Statement. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] –
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, for fear of repeating myself, the law is very clear. – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Which law? Which Section?] - The PRAZ Act, the Public Finance Management but why should I go down into sections now?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Sibanda,
you wanted a point of clarification. Can you give the Hon. Minister the opportunity to answer?
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, the Act is very clear. Secondly, if he has specific issues that he feels are not done procedurally then he should be giving me facts and say, this is what I believe was not done procedurally. Then I can answer.
When we come here, we answer policy issues and the number one policy of any Government is captured in law – that is what we have to follow.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker!
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Sibanda,
with all due respect. The Hon. Minister said that if you have got a specific question - [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is not a specific question
Hon. Speaker but a general question!] –
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, that circular was issued …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No Hon. Sibanda, with all due
respect you need to understand what the Minister said. The Minister said, if you have got a specific concern then you need to write to him so much that he can answer you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is not a specific question Hon. Speaker, it is a general question. There is a circular which his Ministry sent to all local authorities and I am saying if the Hon. Minister does not want to come and give us a Ministerial Statement, at least he should have the courtesy to give us the section – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You know he should have the courtesy to give us the sections of those laws that he is citing. You cannot simply say the Public Finance Management Act. That is why we wanted you to come and give us a Ministerial Statement whilst you are holding the Act.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Sibanda, you need to
address the Chair and not the Minister.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Speaker, what I am simply saying is this…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have understood and I
believe the Minister has actually understood you very well. Hon.
Minister, could you approach the Chair please.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: We want specific sections. If he cannot come for a Ministerial Statement, let him give us specific sections. He is simply hiding behind the law – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
HON. J. MOYO: Mr. Speaker, I will be able to come and furnish the Hon. Sibanda.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: No, the House – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, the Minister is
addressing me and not you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: It is not about me, it is about the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, it is understood, that is okay.
HON. J. MOYO: I will be able to furnish the House and Hon.
Sibanda with the sections that are captured in the Public Finance and Management Act as well as the PRAZ Act very clearly which state exactly what I have said.
HON. MUSANHI: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. My question goes to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. Hon. Minister, there are rumours going around – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There are allegations going around that your Command Agriculture has swindled over $3 billion. Can you please clarify on that issue so that this House can understand what is happening?
THE MINISTER OF LANDS, AGRICULTURE, WATER, CLIMATE AND RURAL RESETTLEMENT (HON. RTD. AIR
CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Allow me to thank the Hon. Member for the question. There is no $3 billion which was swindled or missing. It is unfortunate that when the matter was raised by the appropriate Parliamentary Committee, my staff failed to avail correct responses or factual responses around – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am here to respond.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Give the Minister a chance to
answer the question.
HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: The money in
question was correctly spent by Government. These are monies which were used to buy grain from the farmers. Whenever farmers sell grain to GMB such as maize, wheat, soya or whatever it might be, they are paid by GMB and GMB gets money from Treasury for the procurement of the grain. Some of the money is money which was used to pay for the Presidential Input Scheme. Some of the money was used to pay for utilities such as electricity and others. When all these monies are added together, they add up to the $3 billion.
According to the proper financial treatment, whenever such expenditure has been incurred it has to reflect on the budgets of the Ministry and the Ministry was advised of such expenditure well after the end of the financial year. So the end of the financial year, the expenditure did not reflect on the Ministry’s budget because the Procurement Authority was not resident in the Ministry. The papers have since been availed to the Ministry and this is expenditure which was incurred by GMB and by the Cotton Company of Zimbabwe. For the Cotton Company of Zimbabwe, it was for the Cotton Input Scheme hence, there is no money which cannot be accounted for, Mr. Speaker
Sir. Thank you.
HON. MAMOMBE: My supplementary question to the Hon.
Minister is, you have talked about the huge investment that the
Government has done in Command Agriculture. Hon. Speaker, the crisis that we are facing today of shortage of bread is because of the wheat wheat they invested in. So, we would want to understand from the Minister where is that money, where is the Command Wheat that they were investing in? The Hon. Minster should explain to this House why we are experiencing this shortage of bread which is leading to the stone age bakeries we are having.
HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Through Command Agriculture, we did not say we were going to address the shortages in terms of grain overnight. This is a process and it involves capacity building. It is well known we have got quite a number of water bodies in the country, but our challenge lies in the absence of – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hence, all land which can potentially be irrigated is not currently being irrigated due to unavailability of irrigation equipment.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can you lower
your voices please.
*HON. DINAR: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, there are some Hon. Members who are uttering bad words in this House. These are elderly people who we are supposed to be looking up to here. They are using defamatory language.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I did not hear. There is
nothing I can do on that one, it is overruled. I did not hear anything, so there is nothing for me to rule on – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Minister, can you resume your debate.
HON. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. Production of wheat is a matter of availability of land, water and inputs. Whilst we have the land, and inputs can easily be made available but we are still lagging behind in terms of irrigation facilities. We are busy developing the water conveyancing system so that we can irrigate all the potentially irrigable land, hence we only produce quantities of wheat which are commensurate with the land which can be irrigated at one point in time. As we increase the under irrigation, obviously we will be able to increase the yields or the amount of wheat we produce in any given year.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. With all due respect, I am pleading with your office so that the Hon. Minister would come to this House and give a full ministerial statement explaining clearly with regard to how this issue of the $3 billion came to everything so that he will not just present as he has just done. With all facts and details to the House, we interrogate with questions freshly and openly with all the grace. I am very sure the Hon. Minister has no one to protect in all circumstances.
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Thank
you Mr. Speaker Sir. I am not protecting anyone. I am stating facts as they are. I seem not to appreciate the need to come and issue a ministerial statement given that I am able to give the required facts here. I have highlighted that the money in question was used for the cotton input scheme, for the Presidential Input Scheme and for the importation of grain – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Members having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No more points of order. May you resume your seats Hon. Members. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – -[HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI:
Ndakumbovatuka mbijana.]-
HON. SEN. RTD. AIR CHIEF MARSHALL SHIRI: Mr.
Speaker Sir, I am not addressing baboons and monkeys. I am addressing people who are supposed to listen when I am responding. If they want me to respond and they want an answer, they have to give me a chance to respond. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No more points of order. Hon. Members, may you resume your seats. – [HON. MEMBERS: No, no.] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MAMOMBE: Mr. Speaker, I am the one who asked the question. The Hon. Minister cannot refer to us as baboons and monkeys. We need sufficient answers Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, you need to protect us Sir. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. MEMBERS: Mr. Speaker, there are no monkeys] -. We are not going to allow that kind of language in this House. He has to withdraw.
MDC Hon. Members sang a song – Intho oyenzayo siyayizonda, whilst ZANU PF Hon. Members chanted – E. D. pfeee, E. D. pfeee.
MDC Hon. Members shouted - Chamisa, Chamisa and sang a song
Ndezve change, Nero, ndezve change Nero.
Hon. Members having continuously behaved disorderly, the Temporary Speaker abruptly adjourned the House at Twenty-Six
Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 25th July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS
WORKSHOP
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, I have to inform the
House that all members of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a one day workshop on the unpacking of the
Marriage Bill [H. B. 7, 2019] on Monday, 29th July, 2019 at the Rainbow Towers Hotel starting at 0800 hours.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, what about men too? Why discriminating because marriage is between men and women. So, we all need to go there, particularly to learn about Section 40.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, I am being advised
that we are starting with the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus, followed by Committees and then all Members of Parliament – [HON. BITI: Varume ndovaifanira kutoenda uku because ndivo vari kuhura, vana Hon. Matangira.] – Please may you withdraw that word?
HON. BITI: I withdraw everything I have said against Hon. Matangira – [HON. MATANGIRA: Thank you very much, uri mukwasha iwewe ndoda mombe.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of privilege?
HON. BITI: My point of privilege is to do with foreign currency and the shortage of electricity. My request is that the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development makes a statement to this august
House on where our foreign currency is given the fact that we do not have electricity. If you can allow me Madam Speaker, that is my point of privilege.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your point of privilege is
noted, we will ask the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to come and give a Ministerial Statement.
HON. BITI: I need to make the submission Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead Hon. Biti, but go
straight to the point.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, between January and June 2018 and these figures are in the Reserve Bank Governor’s Monetary Policy Statement of October, 2018, the one that bifurcated our accounts between RTGs Nostro and Nostro FCA. The Reserve Bank had received through export surrender requirements US$3 361 400 000. That is a lot of money. Of that money, 15% that is to say around
US$507 030 293. 00 was used to import diesel. Eight percent or around
US$267 353 576 was used to import unleaded petrol. Three percent or
US$111 000 000 was used to pay for energy. Two percent or US$ 64 000 000 was used to import crude soya meal. Two percent or US$62
000 000 was used to import rice. Then there is a breakdown Madam
Speaker, of one percent/one percent but 61% of this money totaling US$2 047 115 448 was then used to pay something called others which is not described but the ‘other’ things are described. So, we would like the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to come and explain to this House what this others is when you are not paying for
fuel.
For 2019 Madam Speaker, between January and February of 2019 just in two months, we received foreign currency in the sum of US$707 254 483. Of that money, 17% or US$119 931 064 went to diesel. Madam Speaker, 9.4% or US$66 628 665 went to unleaded fuel; 1.6% or US$11 199 467 went to road tractors; 10 766 108 which is 1.5% went to wheat, then the rest Madam Speaker are one percent/one percent including for instance insecticides which were bought for US$6.7 million.
Then I come to the disturbing figure once again. Other products which are not specified which are 50.69% almost 60% went to other products. What are these other products that are consuming 60% of the foreign currency in this country when we do not have energy, when we do not have fuel? So, I would like the Hon. esteemed Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Prof. Mthuli Ncube to come and give a Ministerial Statement on where our money is going and why we do not have energy and fuel. I thank you very much Madam Speaker ma’am. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, over and above the
requested Ministerial Statement, may you put it as a written question to enable the Minister to give a comprehensive answer.
HON. BITI: I will expand.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I rise on a matter of
privilege. Last year in November 2018, I raised a motion on privilege that spoke to the issue of people with disabilities that come to our hearings here. In that instance, I was referring to a teacher who cannot see, who could not read our Oath and I raised it with the Speaker. I was told that in the following week the Oath that they read would be put into braille. I am disappointed Madam Speaker, that last week the same gentleman came to this very House and we did not have braille. They are coming back on Monday. On that day, I had offered to get the Oath and go and do the braille myself. I was told that the Administration was going to work on it the following week but they have not. So, I am now requesting – please, can I have a copy of the Oath so that I can go and organise the braille because he is coming back on Monday, 29th July, 2019 and I cannot keep on giving excuses. It is just three sentences Madam Speaker, I think we should be sensitive to these issues. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Misihairabwi-
Mushonga, your point of order is noted. We will instruct the Public Relations Office to do that as a matter of urgency. Thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, Section 12 of the Public
Finances Management Act provides that all audit and special reports be tabled in this House. Yesterday Madam Speaker, the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare repeated the same excuses that she has given before and also indicated that the Hon. Speaker or the Chair had not ruled otherwise.
In view of the fact that it is provided for in the Public Finances Management Act, that all the reports must be tabled in Parliament and apart from that, we all know that every institution that falls under the Government of Zimbabwe shall be audited by the Auditor-General and that all the reports are tabled in Parliament. Madam Speaker, if you also look at the background of the same NSSA reports, of late we have seen some movements where a colleague of the Hon. Minister is now reported to have been arrested, meaning there is more to that particular report. In view of that, I want the Hon. Chair to rule Hon. Minister, Dr. Sekesai Kanhutu-Nzenza to be in contempt of Parliament having refused to abide by the Hon. Chair’s ruling and also the provisions of the Public
Finances Management Act.
In addition, it is provided for in the Constitution of Zimbabwe that this Parliament will have oversight over the Executive and any other institution that is created by an Act of Parliament. So, I move that Hon. Dr. Sekesai Kanhutu-Nzenza be reported to the Privileges Committee and be charged for contempt of Parliament because if she had an objection, she should have approached the courts. Otherwise the Hon.
Chair cannot reverse the judgment that it gave. So I move Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Madzimure, your point
of privilege is noted but I will study the matter and make a ruling later. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Madam Speaker, I have a point of privilege!] –
No, I ruled that Hon. Madzimure’s privilege was the last one.
COMMITTEE STAGE
EDUCATION AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 1, 2019]
First Order read: Committee Stage: Education Amendment Bill
[H. B. 1, 2019].
House in Committee On Clause 2:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in my name that Clause 2 of the Bill is amended –
- by the deletion of the definition of “basic state funded education” and the substitution of –
“basic state funded education” means –
- education from early childhood education up to Form Four; or
- adult education up to Form Four; or
- any other category as may be declared as such by the Minister by notice in the Gazette from time to time:
for which pupils shall not be required to pay fees or levies and the State shall provide them with learning and teaching material, facilities, infrastructure and resources subject to the provisions of Section 75 of the
Constitution;”;
- by the insertion of the following definitions –
“child” means a boy or girl under the age of eighteen years;
“public school” means a school established and maintained by the Government, including schools run by local authorities; registered private voluntary organisations or faith-based organisations to provide education to the public without profit;”;
- by the repeal of the definition of “Government school” and the
substitution of the following –
“ “Government school” means a school administered and controlled by the national Government, local authority or any tier of Government as established in Section 5 of the Constitution;”.
Hon. Chair, just to indicate that we had a conversation with the Hon. Minister around the submissions that we made in that amendment and there are certain concessions that the Hon. Minister has given. So depending on that concession being put to the House, I will withdraw my amendment. It is not all of it that he has accepted, but he has compromised on some of it. I will wait for him to put the concession.
THE CHAIRPERSON: So what are you saying about your amendment?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: We agreed on the basic
one because ours was to argue that we want first to ensure that we put in a definition that includes E.C.D up to ‘O’ level. The original was to put it up to grade 7 so; we upped it form 4. I am hoping that this is what he has conceded to.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Chair, we do
concede that the definition of Basic State Funded Education should be from E.C.D (A) to the forth form. We do not concede on the definition of the child because education is not only for children but learners or pupils. Some pupils start education after attainment of 18 years. So to reference child would discriminate against such pupil –[HON. BITI: Asi unobva Dotito.] – ndokwandobva Hon. Member.
THE CHAIRPERSON: What definition are they referring to Hon. Minister?
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: The definition of a child, it would
appear that originally free basic education would be accorded only to children who are defined as people of 18 years or less. We want our education to cater for people even after the age of 18 – free basic education. This is why we are striking that definition of child and making sure that all pupils who are in basic education which is E.C.D to form 4 are catered for.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Minister are you agreeable to (a)
and (c).
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: (a) and (c) are okay there is no problem.
Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amendment put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in my name. Thank you very much the amendment speaks to the issue of sanitary wear. I must say that in conversations with the Minister, he did concede to that, save that we included the issue of endeavour. I must agree with him that because we have agreed to import section 75 from the Constitution and making it the preamble, it means it becomes a progressive implementation.
On that particular issue, we will be so happy Hon. Minister if you formally concede to this because we already have issues where children are not going to school because they do not have sanitary wear. I think it is something that has become really urgent. For you to buy just a packet of cotton wool now you have to pay between 10 to 12 dollars, and that is one packet that you only use probably for a day or two. If you are going to have your menses for 7 days, it means you literally need a packet for every other day which is 70 dollars. It has become really impossible for our children in school. So if we were to have that it would be the best news that people would hear today, particularly the young girls. I thank you.
HON. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think Mr. Chair this
Bill will help the young girls in schools. I just want to support the amendment and I will say I was in OK Supermarket today and the most expensive sanitary wear is going for RTGs16.25 and if you just calculate RTGs16.25 x 4 it clearly shows that most of the young girls are no longer using sanitary wear. I think the other female members in this House -we received a letter from a young lady and the young lady was complaining that we must try to lobby and make sure that the sanitary wear is given for free to every woman, not girls alone. This is a clear sign to say women are suffering out there Chair.
May I also take you back, during our time and our mothers, most of the women were using clothes and some were using some materials which are even harmful to our health. Mr. Chair, I think we know very well with this economic hardships, if you go to the rural areas it clearly tells us that the girls will not go to school during their menstrual period.
You remember some of the girls even stay murwizi, kugara murwizi just because she does not have sanitary wear. I think as women and as women parliamentarians we support this and we will even go further to move some motion and some Bills to make sure that every woman in Zimbabwe will get the sanitary wear for free - because the increase of cancer, most of the women who are now suffering with cancer, if you check it is the issue of failing to afford to pay for sanitary wear. So I just want to support the amendments and say vana vedu kumaruzevha vakanzwa Minister kuti we have managed to make sure that we will supply the sanitary wear for free, for sure Zimbabwe will celebrate because every girl is suffering.
I want to say if you go to these higher institutions, most of the girls who are now resorting to prostitution and some of them are even being taken by the sugar daddies, it is because of poverty, and they cannot even afford to pay for sanitary wear. So they will resort to take the sugar daddies so that they will get the sanitary wear. For us to safeguard these children, I think let us give them sanitary wear for free. So, I will support to make sure our girls will get the sanitary wear for free. I thank you
HON. MBONDIAH: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would also like to
add my voice to the amendment - to say that it is very disheartening for examples if you just go into our ladies toilet here at Parliament you would find that there are condoms in there. It is disheartening that most of the higher tertiary institutions would rather provide condoms rather than provide sanitary wear for ladies. So, I would like to advocate for free sanitary wear. You find that in rural areas, our young girls are resorting to using contraceptives so that they stop their menstrual cycles.
So I am also in support of this Bill. I thank you.
*HON. MUCHENJE: Thank you Chair. I would like to
contribute one or two points to this motion which has been moved by Hon. Misihairabwi. Can you imagine a mother who has four children that have reached their menstrual age, consider how much the parent would use to buy sanitary wear for four children plus herself? She uses about $1 000 - it is costly for the parent.
I would like to also talk about the girl child in the rural area, those in school are not enjoying their education because they do not have sanitary wear. The toilets do not have adequate water supply, if a child goes to school after using a piece of cloth, to use it throughout the day has health implications. Also, the child is not free to engage in educational activities because she is scared of spoiling her uniform. Once that happens, she faces humiliation from her peers and that also affects their performance in class. So that is a difficult period for the girl child. The mother is also not at peace knowing that the child has gone to school without proper sanitary wear. The improvision of sanitary wear in rural areas causes diseases. They use pieces of cloth and other means and this can causes diseases later on in life. So my contribution is that sanitary wear should be availed to school children.
Mothers also use other methods to try and prevent the menstrual periods but those methods have implications later in life. Therefore, sanitary wear should be affordable and should be available in all schools, in fact to all women. Recently I was at one of the community schools in my rural area. Most girls raised concern over the issue of satchels that they need them but they said they needed sanitary wear the most to enable them enjoy their education.
The other issue is on availing condoms in schools. I think it is good for those children who are sexually active – it is sad if a child who is in grade seven in impregnated. The parents are working so hard to send their children to school, others are being looked after by grandparents. We pretend and bury our heads in the sand that these children are not being sexually active, yet they are. So, we should come up with methods and means to ensure that they prevent pregnancies. If those forms of contraception are not availed, they will continue giving birth and bringing kids to their grandparents to look after them. Therefore I request that schools should be availed with sanitary wear as well as condoms. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Firstly I would like to commend this amendment which in my view is very progressive. It is in two parts; those who have spoken before me have already made reference to the first aspect and I want to thank the Committee on
Primary and Secondary Education as well as the chairperson, Hon. Misihairabwi for coming up with this progressive amendment. As it stands, we have had the problem where we have paid lip service to this very serious issue.
We are all cognisant that when it comes to issues of menstrual health, it is not out of choice. It is something that girls have no control over and there is an obligation on the State to ensure that girls have access to this. In the past we have had a situation where promises and undertakings have been made but they have not been fulfilled. I am happy that with this amendment we now have a positive obligation; a legal obligation which will be on the State. I would like to appeal to the Minister that apart from passing this legislation if he concedes this amendment he must go beyond and actually have implementation, because in the past we have had situations where we got legislation pass it in this House; we all ululate but on the ground nothing actually happens.
So we have to ask and plead with the Hon. Minister and his colleagues in Cabinet, particularly the Hon. Minister of Finance to ensure that appropriate resources are allocated to ensure that there is realisation of this amendment which I think we are all in agreement with and that it is something that is going to be passed unanimously.
On the second part of the amendment, I think it is also important that we deal with the issue of discrimination which the amendment is speaking to and I also hope that the Hon. Minister is going to take it on board and concede. I hope that if we are all in agreement then have consensus, then this amendment will pass without any objection. I thank you Mr. Chairman.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Hon. Chair for giving me this
opportunity. I just want to add my voice in support of this issue. I have always asked this question when a girl is at school and she goes on menstrual, what do you want the teacher to do? If teacher has nothing to give to that girl, what do you want the teacher to do – just look at the child? I was thinking that in the same way we have in school free feeding schemes there must also be free sanitary pad schemes in schools – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – When I heard about this Bill, I went around some schools in my Constituency. I gathered from some girls that during harvesting cotton from the fields, they pluck out some cotton and keep it so that they can use it during their menstrual cycle. This is a bad system which I could not swallow. If a mother cannot get money to buy pads for herself, how about her girl child? Why can the Government not set aside a fund for that to assist this girl child? That is my opinion. I thank you.
*HON. SHAVA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I stand up to support the debate in this House concerning sanitary wear. Firstly, I would like to thank the Head of State for scrapping excess duty on sanitary wear. Over and above the non-payment of duty, my request is that we set up companies that produce sanitary wear.
I also call upon the Government to supply sanitary wear to school children from Grade 6 up to Form 4 and this should be easily accessible. It should be in the open in each and every classroom. It should not be hidden like condoms. We also request that this should also be rolled out in rural areas especially areas like Binga and Mashonaland West that are quite backward. This should be availed even in churches. The pastors’ wives should make these available in homes and to the vulnerable groups. I also want to support the fact that sanitary wear should be given in bulk. The cost of sanitary wear should be low or they should be availed on a free basis. If we are to advocate for them to be sold, there are children who cannot afford because they are orphans and are being taken care of by grandparents.
In my opinion, I think the way they distribute condoms should be the same way they distribute sanitary wear without people paying for anything.
HON. MUSHAYI: I would like to first of all thank the Committee Chairperson and the Committee for coming up with such a progressive amendment.
I think it is important to look at the fact that the provision of free sanitary wear in schools would go a long way in terms of making sure that young girls do not miss school. A certain percentage of girls are missing school because of their monthly periods. Whilst we are looking at the intention of the Government and the world-over we should now be fighting towards emancipation of women and making sure that girls are given the opportunity to go to school. We will not achieve this if we are not able to provide sanitary wear.
The reason why I think this recommendation is very progressive is because we are looking at the vision that we want to achieve as a country...
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon Sikhala, may you take
your seat.
HON. MUSHAYI: Thank you Chairperson. The reason why I think it is important that we provide free sanitary wear in schools - if we look at a situation of a family, where a family wants to buy food; they would not prioritise buying sanitary wear for their daughter. It therefore means the daughter has to miss school because the family would have prioritised buying food.
Whilst it is noble that we want to make sure that we achieve a nation that has women and girls that are educated, we will not be able to achieve it unless we are able to provide free sanitary wear so that girls do not miss school. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Committee and the Chairperson in terms of this particular recommendation because we realise that menstrual cycle is a natural process. I cannot be made to pay for things that I am doing naturally. It is also a blessing to be able to go for menses. It is an issue of national service because the moment I get my periods and I am now at an age where I can then deliver children, it helps me to be able to deliver children. Unless we are able to provide for kids when they are still going to school, we are missing an opportunity for us to be able to take our responsibility as a nation to make sure that there is no girl child left out in terms of acquiring their education.
I therefore feel that this recommendation and amendment is progressive and therefore, the Government should make sure that there is follow up in terms of making sure that once it has been approved, we then have implementation and follow through.
One of the things we have heard is that we have recommendations that have been approved but there is no budgetary allocation to make sure that it is achieved. We want to urge the Government through the Minister and the Minister of Finance that they make sure that once this has been put through, we have implementation and follow through.
*HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I stand up to add my voice and support the issue of sanitary wear. We have girl children in school that cannot access sanitary wear who use cow dung. This cow dung can cause cancer, hence it will affect their future as mothers.
I want to applaud and also request that sanitary wear be availed freely. Children should be able to access sanitary wear to enable them to engage in sports like the Gems who were abroad. I also want to support this initiative so that the girl children can get sanitary wear for free. +HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you for affording me this opportunity. I would like to thank the Minister of Education for this amendment that has been brought up. We are very happy about it.
A mother is a mother. She is the one who bears the children and looks after them. The mother buys her sanitary pads first. I am talking about the sanitary pads – this is what I am talking about. The mother will buy hers first but because it is expensive, the children will not get the sanitary pads. A girl will always get depressed whenever she is having her menstruation because she will be worried that maybe she might mess herself up. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing up this amendment because a lot of women now suffer from cervical cancer. May be this started way back when they were still girls using things that were not proper. We have travelled extensively and found that women are using banana leaves or cow dung to protect themselves. I am being told that they use leaves and grass because they will be desperate. What if it starts at school, what do you use? It means that you will end up messing yourself up and you will not be happy the whole day at school. We are happy that the Minister wants to amend this. Let us start with the school children. We are saying they should get sanitary pads for free so as to avoid them from contracting cervical cancer.
It looks like a lot of women are dying from cervical cancer. We would like to see those sanitary pads being taken to schools and this should not take long. We should see this coming to fruition. When these school children go out for sporting activities they will not spoil themselves and will play freely. We are happy that the Minister has realised that this is a very worrisome issue and we would like to thank him for this.
*HON. SHIRICHENA: Thank you for giving me this opportunity
in support of the issue of sanitary wear. I see it as important that the Government should avail sanitary wear to our children for free. The regime that we are growing up in now is different from the time when we grew up. We used to use sanitary wear that was sub-standard and did not cause diseases but currently, the regime that we are growing up in, there are so many diseases and infections. So, our children should be availed sanitary wear to prevent such health challenges.
My request is that the Government should avail sanitary wear for free to the girls as much as they provide anti-retroviral treatment. Things are so expensive nowadays; children cannot afford school fees, what more getting money to buy sanitary wear? They end up using unorthodox sanitary wear. The Government should ensure that sanitary wear is easily accessible and for free in order to protect the life of the woman in future. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): With regards to amendment of Clause 3 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: May you lower your voices
Hon. Members.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: With regards to amendment of Clause 3, we do concede to the addition but it should be captured already as follows; ‘Every school shall endeavour to provide sanitary wear and other menstrual health facilities to girls.’ Thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am of the view that the section that has been cited by the Hon. Minister does not really create an obligation on either the school or Government. If we are saying this is a right that needs to be enforced then the law should speak clearly indicating that it is an obligation. However, the manner that the Hon. Minister couched it, in my understanding means that it is not obligatory. It means that
Government and schools have got a leeway to say, ‘it is alright, we are trying our best but we cannot.’ It creates that loop. In my view, I think that the wording of that section needs to be revised so that it reflects the mandatory nature of the intention of the Legislature. I thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like the august House to understand that this was a very well considered compromise. Initially, we have said matters such as this one are more of an administrative nature and could not be legislated into the Act. Hon.
Chair, we were also considering the fact that if we put an outright obligation right now on a school in Gokwe, Binga or Checheche there, to say as soon as this Bill passes they have to or are obligated to provide sanitary wear, we could render some of the schools dysfunctional because of the resource factor that we find in our schools. So, in my view it is good for us to put it in the way that we have suggested. However, we take a collective responsibility, which is what we have agreed with the Portfolio Committee, to ensure that the schools are well provided. It may be Government, non-governmental organisations or some of our development partners whom we are in the process of consulting at the moment and the consultations are coming in very positively. So, it is a pragmatic amendment of the amendment to ensure that our schools remain functional even as we look for resources to provide for the necessary sanitary wear. Thank you Hon. Chair.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Chair, for starters I think I have got problems with the opinion by the Hon. Minister, that an administrative issue cannot be legislated. Most of the issues that are in the legislation are actually administrative and I believe that it is not true that we cannot legislate for an administrative issue. Secondly, I think where we are missing each other with the Hon. Minister, is that it appears the burden is being pushed to schools. I think it should not be the burden of schools, that responsibility should fall squarely on Central Government. The Central Government cannot abrogate that responsibility of ensuring that they take care of the sexual and reproductive health of our female citizens. It is squarely the duty of Government. So I believe that instead of that responsibility being put on schools let it fall squarely on Government, that Government should ensure that sanitary wear is provided for in schools at the cost of the Treasury and not of the schools.
I thank you.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: May the owner of a white Isuzu Twincab registration number ADY0180 go and remove it because it is obstructing other cars.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVHIMA): I really want to appeal to
this august House to be very pragmatic. You realise that even the provisions of State funded basic education is being done in a progressive manner. We have to take cognizance of our fiscal situation as a nation. To place an obligation on the State when we all know that there is limited capacity to take care of that obligation, is to be irresponsible in our legislation. I really think that let us leave it as endevour for the time being and then we make all the efforts, together, not just the
Government but also the leadership that is in this House so that we can provide for this essential service for our girl child. I take that responsibility, but I am also fully aware of the situation that exists in our schools.
There are competing values, including issues of teaching and learning materials and infrastructure that we have all talked about in this House. So I really accept that responsibility, but I am aware of the limitations that I have as a Ministry. So I am appealing to the House to accept this amendment of the Bill which to me is quite progressive because initially it had not been considered in the amendment Bill. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Governments are put in place in order to take care of the welfare of the citizens. That one is an inalienable duty of Government to ensure that the welfare of its citizens is taken care of. For an Hon. Minister to stand in this House and tell us that he is pleading poverty when one of his duty is to ensure that there is wealth creation by growing the economy, in my view it does not add up.
In my language, Hon. Speaker I do not agree that we should then legislate because we are looking at the current situation. We do not make laws for today, we make laws for posterity. Therefore, the Hon. Minister should not run away from that obligation, that obligation should be imposed. I urge this House to impose that obligation and then the House will also have a duty of oversight to ensure that that obligation is being followed. If Government cannot do that, then there is no need for them to be Government, they should get out of Government. If they cannot do that then let them get out. So I maintain my position Hon.
Chair that that obligation should be placed on the State and should be mandatory. If the Hon. Minister continues to feel in the manner that he feels, I think we can divide the House and vote on it.
HON. PROF. MAVHIMA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I heard the Hon. Member but the Hon. Member who is an economist fails to appreciate the universal reality that resources are always in short supply. There is no Government that takes care of all the needs of its citizens because there is no Government that has comprehensively resources that are needed for all the needs, otherwise all the citizens will just go home and rest and be provided for by the Government. So for the Hon. Member to suggest that a Government that has failed only on one thing, because of resource limitations which is a universal condition of human existence – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
So Hon. Chair, resource limitation is not a situation that exists in Zimbabwe - even the richest country does not provide for all its citizens requirements. In this particular case, I am saying let us be pragmatic, let us make sure that as we look at the education sector, there are some things that we are saying can be obligatory now but pragmatically let us look at this and say as the resources become available, we can scale up.
HON. KARENYI: I think as a Government, you must also show political will. What I think the Minister can do is to make sure that we have it in our Bill, then what I believe is that if the Minister can go out there and say from such and such a period we are supposed to give the sanitary wear for free at primary school level. We must start from somewhere, maybe you can just commit yourself to say, we will start with primary level, from grade one to grade seven, obviously that will be our start for us to say yes we are committed to do something.
What I believe is that if you go in terms of the health sector, we know very well that we budget for money which we cannot even afford but you will see the ARV’s, we have got partners who can partner with us to provide sanitary wear if it is now in our Bill. I urge the Minister, may be commit himself and if he wants to start with something, start from grade one to seven then you go out there, I know very well, there are donors out there, there are people out there who can partner with you to provide the sanitary wear for free.
HON. MUNETSI: I want to agree with Hon. Sibanda’s view that
even if the Government cannot provide all services to its citizens, I thought Hon. Sibanda was going to say this is an essential service – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – So when it becomes an essential service, we have to forgo some things and look at what is practical at that moment. I thank you.
HON. PROF. MAVHIMA: Hon. Chair, what is being suggested especially by Hon. Karenyi is well taken care of by the importation of Section 75 of the Constitution into this Bill. Where we are basically saying, ‘Every citizen and permanent resident of Zimbabwe has a right to a basic State funded education, including adult basic education and further education which the State through reasonable legislation and other measures must make progressively available and accessible.”
This actually means that this essential service that the Hon.
Members are advocating for, which I agree with, should be
progressively provided as indicated in Section 75 of the Constitution, but if you are to give me an obligation today and say, ‘You must’. Then tomorrow, a citizen will come to me and take me to court and say,
‘Provide’. When I know that I do not have the resources to do that and there is competition among different values in the education sector and some are much more basic than others.
So I would like this leeway to allow me to work administratively on the provision of sanitary wear and other menstrual health services in order to ensure that I do not get embroiled in legal battles. This is the pragmatism that I was referring to Hon. Chair. I thank you.
*HON. ZEMURA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I want to contribute to this issue on the basis that our youth should be weaned from the Government. A few months ago, we heard of male circumcisions and the male youths went and got circumcised by doctors for free. Learned doctors conducted male circumcision for free but now that this has come to issue of women, we are requesting that you look into the issues of women – they are struggling.
We produce cotton in this country were free inputd are provided by the Government - all we are requesting is that you supply us with sanitary wear but you do not want. However, when it came to male circumcision, it was rolled out countrywide because it was looking at the needs of men. Now that we are talking about the needs of women, may you also consider this and avail free sanitary wear. I thank you.
*HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I have to concede defeat but this has put oranges and apples on the table. Male circumcision is a once off programme and when we look at the cost, it takes about ten cents for it to be implemented. I am saying, if I had a lot of money - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - This is a ministry, that is what I mean. If I had a lot of money, this is something that I would implement tomorrow but I am saying, before I get the funding, let me say that we are going to do everything in our power through the Bill, to find ways of sourcing resources and we will do it in stages until we are able to provide sanitary wear to girl children in schools. This is why I said that I am appealing to Hon. Members to understand where I am coming from.
If they are saying they have funding that they can avail to me tomorrow – they can bring it forward. At one time I had to look for books but I could not get them and I looked for computers but I could not find them. Even schools – I am still struggling to get all those. So I am appealing to the august House to be pragmatic. It is a matter that is close to my heart and to my officials in the ministry.
Hon. Chair, I think you would also want to know that we have programmes on the ground on reusable sanitary pads. We pushed for the removal of duty on sanitary wear but for me to commit and say that I can avail sanitary wear tomorrow for all girl children – I would be lying. I thank you.
HON. S. BANDA: Thank you Chairperson, psychologically as you grow up you end up forgetting the names of the people whom you attended school with. There are people who I will never forget in my life. It is those girls who spoiled their dresses and skirts during my adolescence. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I can recall all their names - the beautiful and ugly ones I have forgotten but those who spoiled their dresses and skirts I still remember. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] -
Mr. Chairman, if there is one constitutional thing that requires subsidies in this country – it is sanitary wear. We currently have command buses – the ZUPCOs; there is command agriculture and we now even have command bread. Let us also have command sanitary wear – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - This august House will support a budget for sanitary wear even next week if the Minister of Finance and Economic Development budget for sanitary wear as Hon.
Members, we are going to support the Bill in this House.
Hence we remain firm in saying, ‘Give the sanitary wear for free!’
I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 4:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in my name that:-
Clause 4 is deleted and substituted by the following-
‘4 New section substituted for section 5 Cap 25:04
Section 5 (“Compulsory education”), of the principal Act is repealed and substituted with the following: –
5 Compulsory Education
- Every child shall be entitled to compulsory basic state funded education.
- Any parent who deprives their child the right to basic state funded education shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 6 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years”
Thank you very much although the Minister now thinks that I cheated him. On Clause 4, we did agree on the issue around compulsory, so I am sure the Minister can speak to it.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon. Chair, we
did concede to the proposed amendment and we also think the duty to ensure the right of education should fall on the guidance as well. So, compulsory will also mean that the parents/guardians would have an obligation to make sure that learners go to school. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 4 put and agreed to.
Clause 4, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 5:
HON. DINAR: There is a statement here which says ‘any parent
who deprives their child the right to basic State funded education will be imprisoned...’ We have realised...
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, we have
already passed that.
HON. DINAR: On Clause 5?
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: It was separated and we
have already passed that.
On Clause 6:
HON. MISIHARABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the motion stand
in my name that:-
Clause 6 as amended by the deletion of paragraph (ii) to the provision of the subsection (3) and the substitution of the following –
“(ii) The head of the school who has not issued a certificate in
terms of paragraph
(i) Shall enroll the child despite his or her being fully enrolled.”
Just to cut this short we did have a compromise and we agreed. We are basically saying we were having questions particularly at my Committee where they will go to a school and the head will say I am fully enrolled. If they do not issue a certificate that says he is fully enrolled to justify that they are really enrolled they have to enroll that child. This is to cut down the corruption where head teachers would say I am fully enrolled because he is waiting for other people to come and pay him so that he can come in.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon. Chair, we do concede
to that amendment. In actual fact, we had just said on 6 (III) (2), (1), the verbiage there should just be ‘shall enroll the child’ without ‘despite his or her being fully enrolled.’ If they have not issued a certificate then they shall enroll and we should leave it there.
Amendment to Clause 6 put and agreed to.
Clause 6, as amendment, put and agreed to.
Clauses 7 and 8 put and agreed to.
On Clause 9:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in my name that:-
Clause 9 is amended by the deletion of subsection (7) and the substitution of the following:-
“(7) Every school other than public school shall pay a registration and annual fee as may be prescribed from time to time by the Minister.
(8) Any person or responsible authority who operates a school other a public school without paying the registration and annual fees as prescribed in subsection (7) shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 6 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years”.
I think we are generally in agreement on the principle because I think the issue for our Committee was that we just did not want the issue that says all faith based schools are going to be exempted because there are some faith based schools that are actually very elitist. I think the Minister will speak to the compromise amendment that we had because we wanted a clarity between which faith based will be exempted.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you Hon. Chair. We
did not concede to the amendment as it was, but we made a counter proposal to the effect that the quoted part is what should go into the amendment - “Every school other than a Government or local authority school or non-profit making faith based school shall pay a registration and annual fee as may be prescribed”. So non-profit making, I want to emphasise that. That is the addition that we are making there. Thank you.
Amendment to Clause 9 put and agreed to.
Clause 9, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 10:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Hon. Chair.
Can I seek a withdrawal of that amendment?
Clauses 10 and 11 put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
HON.MISIHAIRABWI MUSHONGA: I move the amendments
standing in my name that; - Clause 12 is amended by the deletion of paragraph (a) in line 10 and the substitution of the following –
“(a) teach, in addition to English and sign language, any other officially recognised language prescribed for the region in which the school is situated by the Minister from time to time.”
Thank you Hon. Chair, again I think we have had discussions with the Minister over this one but perhaps just to speak to it so that the House understands why we were pushing this. This is about languages that are taught in schools. We know we have had complaints particularly from other regions where they feel that the language that is being taught to children is not the mother language. We had insisted that we categorise that language by region but we are persuaded to say instead of putting it within the regional context, we put it in the context of the mother language. We insist that it is not necessarily by the fact that Government can avail resources but to insist that if it is a particular mother language – if it is in Tonga area, the mother language is Tonga, we insist that therefore the language taught – language of instruction should therefore be Tonga. I think we got some concessions from the Minister.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon. Chair, we do concede
but we would like to have the deletion of sub-section 3, Section 12 of the original Bill.
Amendment to Clause 12 put and agreed to.
Clause 12, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 13 put and agreed to.
On Clause 14:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendments
standing in my name that; - Clause 4 is amended by the insertion of the following paragraph after paragraph (n3) in line 32 on page 4 –
“(n4) handling of sexual abuse cases in schools.”
We had put that amendment, that school authorities should have an obligation to handle sexual abuse cases in schools because we are having a lot of those happening in schools and we do not seem to have the school authorities putting it on to their table as an issue that they need to deal with. There were discussions with the Minister on the issue of handling, in that it pre-supposes that handling means some form of prosecution; that they would have prosecutory powers and we agreed that we are not asking the school authorities to have any other power beyond just handling and ensuring that they take it to the relevant authorities that are supposed to deal with it. The Minister had promised to find a different way of putting it and I hope that he did.
HON. KARENYI: Thank you Chair. I want also to add my voice but I do not know how you are going to put it Hon. Minister. We also have some headmasters and teacher who are part of this issue of sexual harassment. I do not know whether we are going to have a clause or anything which will allow a parent to go straight to the Ministry. I do not know how you are going to put it because I know of some cases where the teachers are involved and the cases just die a natural death but girls and boys are being abused. Maybe you can help us to put something in the Bill to make sure that the students are also being protected.
HON. DUTIRO: I also feel there is a need to have qualified teachers who are trained to handle these sexual abuse cases for these children. I do not know how best we can also try to put it across that there is need for that.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): We felt that on Clause
14 where we say the school should handle – we should substitute that with management. They should manage. Like the Hon. Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee indicated, handle has connotations of prosecution which the schools cannot do but we would like them to manage. We concede but with that substitution of handling with management.
As far as the Hon. Member’s suggestion, it is covered because we are providing trained teachers to do sexual and reproductive health training of our learners.
Amendment to Clause 14 put and agreed to.
Clause 14, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 15:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in my name.
The only debate is that I am withdrawing that amendment.
Clause 15 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, I
would like to thank the Minister for conceding to a number of things that are there and to thank the House for standing in for most of the things, particularly sanitary wear although the Minister thinks I cheated him. I am quite excited and on behalf of the Committee, thank you for the support.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Hon. Speaker, I do not hold anything against the Hon. Chair of the Portfolio Committee. I listened to the passionate debate that went in the House about the provision of sanitary wear. I really want to thank the House for taking that position. I want the august House to know that we are also passionate about that and about a lot of other provisions that should go into our schools so that we can maintain the quality of our education. Thank you to the House and thank you specifically to the Portfolio Committee for the sterling work that they did.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA), the House adjourned at Six minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 29th July, 2019.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege. I continue arming you with more information in terms of the welfare of the Members of Parliament. The first issue is, whilst some had gone to pick a $50 000 car others have been given an allowance of $55 000 and these are members of the Speaker’s Panel, Standing Rules and Orders members and Chairpersons. The question that I bring to you Madam Speaker is, if that is the correct position, I would like to know where they got the extra $5 000 from because $50 000 is what was said was the cap. Are we today not the same, are we different today?
So Madam Speaker, it is important that you also look into it. I saw a letter myself which gave others $55 000 and the majority had $50 000. – [AN HON. MEMBER: We are all Members of Parliament.] – Madam Speaker, regardless of the number of votes that you got, as long as you won you are entitled.
The second issue is - can the Administration of Parliament furnish the nation of Zimbabwe with our remuneration because people think we are getting a salary of $5 000 or $10 000. It is important that Parliament of Zimbabwe puts in the Herald what we are being given, that is $2 000 and allowances because each time we come to this House and we push for our welfare they think we are being selfish. Ministers are still being given Land Cruisers and Mercedes Benz. So, how can the austerity measures be targeted to Parliamentarians only and not the Executive yet we know for a very long time, it is the Executive that has been spending a lot of money.
Madam Speaker, I am also told there are people who had a choice to buy Isuzu vehicles from Paza Buster. I am told again that ugly head of corruption has visited our august House where people are now being told where to buy vehicles and are being told not to go to Paza Buster.
Madam Speaker, can you also look into that and find out why Paza Buster is not part of the list because other people prefer Toyota and others prefer Isuzu. It means that even those who want to marry must be given a wife at the end of the day yet you have a choice of a wife. I think it is important that we are treated like adults, we are not young children and we are constantly being treated like young children. That must stop. We have a choice of association. The Constitution itself talks about freedom of association, so whether I go and buy a vehicle from Croco Motors or Paza Buster, it is my choice. I thought Madam Speaker, I should raise these issues.
Finally, let me talk about the diplomatic passport. The President approved for every Member of Parliament to have a diplomatic passport. Who is working against the President in not taking the order from the
President? – [AN HON. MEMBER: Seva ipapo.] – The President, the Head of State has said all Members of Parliament must be given diplomatic passports. We do not have them. So, who is stopping that from happening? There are people working against the President and soon they shall be exposed.
Madam Speaker, let me move on to our welfare. We shall stop debating any other issues in Parliament until our welfare is taken care of. We are tired of passing Bills, we are tired of passing laws yet we are nothing at the end of the day. So, Madam Speaker, I thank you very much and I know Madam Speaker, as a mother you feel for us your children. I know your heart is aching, we are your children, please advance this for us. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa, I have
noted all your concerns, I am going to look into them and will give a ruling later. I want you to give me the letter which you referred to.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Administration of
Parliament is the one that sent that letter. I managed to see it in one of the companies; unless they say they did not write the letter, I will bring the letter. They have the letter that they wrote for $55 000. Madam
Speaker, I just managed to bump into the letter when I went to one of these car sales companies. The $55 000 was for Chairpersons, SRC,
Speakers Panel and I think Hon. Mutomba’s name was not on the list, I do not know why because he is on the Speaker’s Panel. That letter did not have Parliament letterhead. So, I do not know where it came from, if they cannot give you that letter by today, tomorrow I will produce it. I will go and ask the letter from the company that I saw it from.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Mliswa. I am
going to look into the matters.
HON. MADZIMURE: I rise on a matter of privilege. Madam
Speaker, the issue of electricity has gone to a situation where it is no longer bearable. Madam Speaker, we have now experienced deaths being caused by the gas leakages because every house is now depending on gas. The price of gas is continuously going up. The industry is being switched off from 0700 hrs in the morning to 2200 hrs in the evening. Madam Speaker, this as a result diminishes any chances of economic revival.
Madam Speaker, the biggest tragedy is that there is no good reason being advanced, if it is because we cannot purchase more electricity then let it be known that we cannot. The issue of the water levels in Kariba – it is known that until our worst we have rains falling in Angola, DRC and Zambia there will not be any in-flows into the lake. So, with that in mind and it is a fact, can the Hon. Minister, I was actually going to ask for the Vice President to come and address this august House – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and inform the whole nation whether the
Government has completely failed to deal with the issue of electricity.
Madam Speaker, the Auditor-General’s reports are revealing
shocking corruption to the extent that $120 000.00 that is required to pay off our electricity debt can easily be paid off by the Government if the Government could look after the money that flows into Government. The situation is dire and people are being mugged when going to join shifts at 2200 hrs in the evening because no industry has electricity. So Madam Speaker, I ask for a high-powered Ministerial Statement because the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power Development has failed to give an understandable reason as to why we do not have electricity. It seems he is completely in the dark – he knows nothing about what is happening. So either he resigns or a high-powered Government representative comes here to explain to the nation. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [HON. BITI: I also have a point of privilege Madam Speaker!] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me give a ruling first to that one. – [HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker.] – Hon.
Madzimure, I think that the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power
Development gave a Ministerial Statement less than three weeks ago – [AN HON. MEMBER: But no solution because things are now worse!] - You are now saying that you want a higher Office? – [HON.
MADZIMURE: Yes.] – Alright, on that one I will refer the issue to the Government Chief Whip, maybe he can convey the message on our behalf. – [HON. TOGAREPI: Maybe if he could put the message in writing for me to convey Madam Speaker?] – Hon. Madzimure, the Government Chief Whip is asking if you can put it in writing so that he may convey the message.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, I wanted clarification on whether you are saying – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: My question was, should I put it in writing as a question or what I am saying to the Chief Whip so that is conveyed to Government?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Writing what you are saying
so that the Chief Whip will convey it to higher Offices.
HON. MADZIMURE: I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I rise once
again on a Matter of privilege and the Matter of privilege is being brought in terms of Standing Order 68.
Madam Speaker, a month ago, the Hon. Speaker made a ruling and determination on the availability of the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
The esteemed and distinguished Hon. Speaker, Adv. Jacob Mudenda,
Esquire directed that the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Sekesai Nzenza comes to this august House within two weeks from his determination to explain to this august House when she was going to present the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
This august House has got the duty and obligation to oversee every public institution and that obligation is defined in Sections 117 and 199 of the Constitution. More specifically on public funds, Sections 298 and 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe state that this august House scrutinises every cent that comes out and goes into the State. So we ask for a determination – a ruling from your esteemed self that the Hon. Minister, tomorrow should lay before this august House, in compliance with the Hon. Speaker’s determination the much heaped NSSA forensic report. I thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your point of privilege is noted Hon. Biti. I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: If you could just make a ruling that Hon. Sekesai Nzenza presents the report tomorrow.] - A ruling was made by the Hon. Speaker, Adv. Mudenda and I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: As Your Lordship pleases.] –
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 33 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 34 has been disposed of.
HON. MUDARIKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUPPORT OF THE NEW ZIMBABWE CURRENCY
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker, I move the motion
standing in my name that this House –
COGNISANT of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 issued by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development abolishing the multicurrency regime in favour of the introduction of the Zimbabwe’s own local currency, the Zimbabwe dollar with effect from 24th June, 2019;
ALSO COGNISANT of the structural distortions in the economy caused by the existence of the multi-currency regime;
DEEPLY CONCERNED that the continued use of the multicurrency regime was now a root cause of the suffering of ordinary Zimbabweans who had no easy access to the United States dollar which had emerged the dominant currency in this basket of currencies;
AWARE of the Government’s noble intentions to mitigate the suffering of the general population;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon this august House to support in earnest the new Zimbabwean currency.
HON. MUSAKWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: Excuse me Madam Speaker, I do know if these seats steal but I do not know if anybody has seen my phone – an IPhone X10. Sorry the Sergeant-at-Arms has once again done his job well by keeping it. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Thank you Sergeant-at-Arms.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency system in February 2009, thereby officially discontinuing the use of the Zimbabwean dollar. Zimbabwe abandoned its local currency after it had been ravaged by hyper-inflation which topped 231million percent. The country adopted a basket of currencies among the...
HON. BITI: On a point or order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: The Hon. Member is reading, he is allowed to refer to his notes and not read.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Musabayana, you are
allowed to refer to your notes not to read.
HON. MUSABAYANA: I thought it is allowed on motions. I will take that again. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency regime in February 2009. This was after the Zimbabwean dollar had been ravaged by inflation. Adopting a multi-currency regime meant that there was a currency substitution where the Zimbabwean dollar was now working or operating in a basket of other currencies. This basket of other currencies included the US dollar, South African Rand, Botswana Pula, British
Pound, Japanese Yen and many other currencies, more recently the RTGs dollar and the bond notes and coins.
At the point of its introduction, the multi-currency system worked because it was meant to stabilize the economy that had been battered by inflation. In terms of curreny substitution, we are looking at a situation where a nation decides to use another currency or other currencies as a medium of exchange and this is exactly what happened in the
Zimbabwean economy. At that time the economy stabilized, there was confidence in the market because with the US dollar, the investors had more confidence and there was flow of capital investments in the economy.
It was also this time that because of the dollarization, our economy stabilized and inflation also fell to levels below 10%. So at that point, it really worked. In 2015, the Zimbabwean dollar was official demonetized at a rate of US$5 to Z$175 quadrillion Zimbabwean dollars with 15 zeroes. So the journey of the dollarization started in that year. Why am I now talking of dollarization, it is because slowly the economy was now accepting more of the US dollar and the rest of the currencies were now relegated from transaction? So, the US dollar crowded out other currencies, it out competed other currencies in the basket of currencies, including the Zimbabwean dollar.
This dollarization process if you look at it, there are other countries that also took the same path, countries like Panama in 1904, Argentina in 1991, also took the dollarization route after the economy was hard hit by hyperinflation, El Salvador in 2001, Ecuador in 2000, Brazil and Mexico also did the same in the 1990s. It is important to note that this dollarization process that Zimbabwe took was more of a default, it was not by design but by default, making the US dollar a de-facto currency.
When the dollarisation process started, there were some vices associated with that but we are also looking at a silver lining to this dollarization process. With the dollarisation of the economy, it meant more stability to the economy but it also meant that our imports, goods and services were available because it was now easier for Zimbabweans to access foreign capital. The fact that there was a US dollar it meant that the economy was stable for investors because the risk of instability associated with the depreciation of domestic currency was no longer happening because we were trading with the strongest currency. A currency that is used in some jurisdictions as a reserve currency – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The dollarized economy also meant a
fall in interest rates. We also saw the interest rates which were provided by our banks falling which was important for investors, which also saw the boost in the agriculture sector and the mining sector. However, as the dollarisation continued, we also saw the speculative behaviour of some sectors of the economy not being spared. This eliminated speculative tendencies that were synonymous with the Zimbabwean dollar era. So, the full dollarization created a positive investment sentiment to the Zimbabwean economy. The other positive thing that was associated with dollarization is that it reduced overall need of international reserves since the currency that was used was actually a currency that was used by some jurisdictions as a reserve currency. As a fiat currency, it become handy for Zimbabweans to use the US dollars.
Having said that the US dollars has its own disadvantages, the multi-currency or the substitution of domestic currency with foreign currencies meant that the Zimbabwean economy lost its monetary sovereignty and this is normally associated with loss of national sovereignty. This loss in sovereignty meant that it was now very difficult for Zimbabwe to control the money supply, because the money supply is controlled by the Reserve Bank. As a result of that, there was now way that the Reserve Bank was able to control the money supply
[HON. BITI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Biti.
HON. BITI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: I am asking Hon. Musabayane whether we eat sovereignty.
HON. MUSABAYANE: The economy was now using the US
dollars; it was now difficult for the Minister of Finance or for the economy to run. There was no fiscal space to induce productivity in the economy. The Government was then left with no option but to issue Treasury Bills, and because in terms of credit lines and other forms of investment that can be brought from abroad - it was tight because of ZIDERA. We know what ZIDERA does, it blocks any form of investments from the international community that is destined to Zimbabwe. ZIDERA also brought credit lines that we can access as an economy, because of that ZIDERA - and we know who are the architects of ZIDERA in this august House. So it was very difficult for our economy to move forward because of ZIDERA. As such, the economy stagnated and with that stagnation the Government had to try to chip in with TBs and we saw domestic debt spiking up to around $12 billion.
The lack of monetary policy flexibility also exposed Zimbabwe to real financial shocks. This is so because we did not adopt the United States Dollar (US$) by choice. It was just a straightjacket that was imposed on Zimbabwe, so it made it very difficult for Zimbabwe to maneuver in terms of investment and meeting its social obligation. The other challenge with the US$ economy was that it meant that Zimbabwe had to import the US$, which was an advantage to the United States economy. To import the US$, Zimbabwe had to fork out extra dollars, hence millions of dollars were spend in importing US$. As you know the currency is to an economy what blood is to the body of a human being. So, you cannot survive on blood that is bought on a daily basis, it is not sustainable. This is exactly what happened to our economy where we had to buy currency to be able to do transactions in this economy.
What the Government did is they were charging dollar to dollar for the importation of the US$, yet it only costs United States 6 cents to produce a US$ note, which means the United States were making at least 95 cents per one US$ that was imported to this economy. This is why…. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: This is why you hear people supporting the continuous use of the US$ because they knew that the Zimbabwe economy was now supporting the American economy, because they were making super profit of 94 cents per US$. So we had actually became one of the cash cows of the American economy and the US Government generates about US$20 billion every year, that is from printing money that it exports to those nations that use its currency as a defacto currency.
The US$ also meant our exports were no longer competitive on the global market because the US$ is very strong and it meant that our exports were very expensive and not competitive. So we were not capable to compete fairly on the global market. Therefore, the United States economy was having an advantage in that respect. The US$ made it very difficult for this economy to issue medium to long term security papers to the productive sector, because it was also denominated in a foreign currency which we did not have a reserve for. In other words the Central Bank lost its role as the lender of last resort to the banking system. When all this is said and done, the use of foreign currency instead of a local currency damaged the nation’s sense of pride, because local currency is a symbol of a Sovereignty State. We all know that when it happened we did not have enough reserves in our coffers in terms of gold.
Now I come back to the Zimbabwe scenario, the serious challenges that obtained because we were operating in a dollarised economy.
Slowly, we saw the RTGs and the Bond note losing traction to the US$ and we saw a widening gap between the declared 1 to 1 exchange rate by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and what was obtaining on the market – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
please may you lower your voices.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We ended up with a situation where we
had two economies in one nation, where we had those people who had access to the foreign currency paying less than those who did not have access to foreign currency. Also, the US$ failed as a medium exchange, why, because a medium exchange should be readily available to those people who want to use it, but this did not happen because the forex was only available to those people who were around border towns and those in cities but for the rural communities they did not get access to the US$ and they were not able to trade freely in the day-to-day running of their lives. This became a serious challenge to our citizens.
It also happened that the bigger cities were also paying a premium because there was huge competition for the US$ for those who wanted to import goods and services. So it disadvantaged certain sectors of the economy, thus creating serious underlying distortions in our economy. We saw urban centres being invaded by illegal foreign currency traders as the US$ and Bond note became commoditised, when we say a currency is now being commoditised, we mean it is no longer just a store of value or medium of exchange, but people are actually using it as merchandise. They are actually buying or sell the currency which is not good for the fundamentals of the economy.
When the saw US$ being the dominant currency - which meant economy was fast dollarising – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
may the Hon. Member be heard in silence?.
. When the economy started to be fast dollarised – the dollarisation process had reached alarming stages where we think as a nation we were crossing the Rubicon River, a point of no return. It was now going to be very difficult as an economy to go back to de-dollarise because every sector was becoming dollarised and because of that, we had certain sectors of the economies now demanding payments of their salaries in US$. This was going to pose a serious challenge to the Government because the Government had very limited sources of foreign currency, because our economy is 90% informal. With 90% in the informal economy, only 10% of the economy will be paying taxes into the economy and this money which was being paid was in local currency, thus making it almost difficult if not impossible for the Government to pay civil servants. The civil servants, even the private sector were justifying, saying that because all the goods and services that they could access in the market were now marked in US$.
They were not only rated in US$ but the sellers of these merchandise were actually demanding the US$ in every transaction that was taking place and because of that the Ministry of Finance and Government saw it fit to take calculated steps to de-dollarise the economy. The de-dollarisation process was not an immediate response but it was a well calculated and formulated process which is enshrined in the Transitional Stabilisation Programme. This is why we saw the Minister of Finance talking about currency reforms in October last year and in January this year. We saw all these things happening because the Government was well organised in executing a currency reform. We need to advise those people who were misinformed thinking that it was a knee jerk response – no it was not. It was a well calculated and planned process of currency reform.
The President also highlighted it in some of his speeches as he psychologically prepared the nation to accept the coming in of a new currency. This is why we saw the currency reform eventually taking shape.
What does it mean for Zimbabwe to have a Zimbabwean dollar? Having a Zimbabwean dollar is a boom for Zimbabweans because it meant that all those legacy debts which were at one to one as announced by the Minister in April meant that they will be able to clear their balances using the US dollar. The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also mean that the Zimbabweans or investors in Zimbabwe are now able to access capital easily and banks will be able to have the Zimbabwean dollar because the US dollar was very illusive and it was difficult to access – [HON. SIKHALA: Is it still available?] - The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also means that the Zimbabwean exports are now competitive on the international market because the US dollar was too expensive. The US dollar is difficult to access, it is used as a store of value and it is commoditised, making it difficult to use as a currency for any nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is also important to note that other nations besides Zimbabwe have actually moved away from the US dollar. If we look at the global scenario, China, Russia, India and Turkey are moving away from the US dollar. It is no longer sustainable as a currency. It is being dethroned as a defacto currency of the world.
Why? Because all producers were cheated by Henry Kissinger to believe that they should sell all their oil in US dollars but this has since changed because the Chinese have negotiated with the Russians and they have agreed that they are now pegging the oil in the Russian currency. The Chinese have also taken bold steps to move away from the US petrol dollar to the Yuan. This shows that the US dollar has lost traction as a defacto international currency.
The US dollar is also overrated because it has no backing whatsoever. It does not have reserves to back it. It is just mere confidence. If you look at the USA as we speak, they are in huge debts that they owe China and Japan. Because of that, it means that their economy is no longer sustainable going forward – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – As Zimbabweans, we took the correct decision to move away from the US dollar. China has also taken bold steps to make sure that internationally, its currency is being accepted as a medium of exchange. This means that the US dollar is no longer a strong currency as it was. Like I said, other countries are also moving away from the US dollar. So it was wise for our Government to introduce S.I. 142 of 2019.
With the introduction of the US dollar, we have also seen our banks benefiting from the 50% interest that has been introduced because before that, what was now happening was that people were borrowing from the bank or those people bent on speculation were borrowing from the bank; take the money to the parallel market, exchange the money, burn it and go back to pay the loans. This was causing inflation and instability into the economy but this gap has been closed by the introduction of the 50% interest on loans. This has also helped to save the country from receding into recession. We are happy that the Government introduced the Zimbabwean dollar.
Introducing a Zimbabwean dollar may not be enough but we want the Government to add on a number of policy measures so that they will stabilise the economy. We propose that the Government accelerates the re-engagement process so that we promote investment into this country. When we talk of re-engagement, we are talking of re-engagement at all levels of the state. We are looking at all Government departments – they must be engaged in the re-engagement process with the rest of the world. When we say re-engagement, we mean true re-engagement where the Government rank and file is singing the same hymn from the same hymn book and if possible singing with the same tune. We do not want a situation where the President goes it alone when it comes to reengagement -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: We also propose that the Government
deals with corruption ruthlessly and perpetrators of illicit financial flows because this will create uncertainty in the economy and also discourages foreign direct investment. For us to improve our rankings on the global market, we need to deal with corruption ruthlessly. Remember, corruption is white collar crime and it is very complex and intricate. It is important that those who deal with corruption are trained and coached on how to profile corruption and how to execute the whole process.
While we applaud the Government’s austerity measures, I think at this stage our economy now requires inducement policies that will ensure that we re-energise the demand for our economy. If this does not happen, we are fearful that sooner or later, a recession cycle will set in and this will cripple our economy as we do not want that to happen.
We also realise that the reason why the economy is slowly dollarised or ended up being dollarised was because of speculative behaviour and the attempt by citizens to try and hedge their interest by keeping all their savings in foreign currency. To ensure that this does not happen again, we are also proposing that as an economy we should start creating our own reserves where we can use our diamonds, platinum and our gold as reserves so that our Zimbabwean dollar will also be regarded as strong currency and that we move away slowly from the fiat currency obtaining in the economy.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, while we applaud the Minister’s move to de-dollarise the economy, we also need to deal with the liquidity crisis that is currently happening in the economy. Workers and pensioners are spending valuable time which should be assigned to productivity to queuing at banking halls. This should come to an end and increase our productivity. The use of plastic money should be as a matter of choice or convenience not the only alternative. If there is shortage of cash in the economy, we find people trading the bank note. At the moment, people have commoditised the bond note, they are selling cash and this is also creating corruption in our economy because businesses that deal with cash are able to sell cash at a premium creating distortions in our markets. So, we implore the Hon. Minister to ensure that he closes the liquidity gap that is in the market.
We also want to encourage the Hon. Minister to pursue a strategy which brings back confidence into our domestic currency. We know confidence is anchored with consistency and confidence is also anchored on political stability and good corporate governance. We therefore urge the Minister to ensure that we have policies that inspire confidence in the eyes of domestic and foreign players.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, we also propose that we have a currency board to restore confidence in the financial sector. The currency board will make sure that there is proper allocation of currency to the needy sectors of the economy, mining, agriculture and other capital projects. We also want to ensure that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) is independent in its operations. The independence of the RBZ will also inspire confidence with our monetary sector.
If we do not have a properly constituted board that manages currency in our economy, we will also end up with issues to do with corruption where certain people are given preference or jump queues when they approach the bank. So, we want a situation where there is proper allocation of the available foreign currency to the needy sectors of the economy. To underpin why I think the Government took a correct and bold stance in going back to the Zimbabwean dollar; we have many other nations in the world which have taken the same route; Sierra
Leone’s Government in 2015 expressed the desire to de-dollarise the economy and the Central Bank Governor of that country, Dr. Kaifala Marah took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy. There was a presidential appeal where they chose to de-dollarise the economy. Mexico and Pakistan also implemented a more rapid and forced dedollarisation and it was sustainable. However, this comes at a cost because of macro-economic imbalances that happened and there was huge capital flight and less financial intermediation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in the 70s, Israel also de-dollarised their economy. Russia is also in the process of doing away with the US dollar, so we are not alone in this journey of de-dollarisation. Madam
Speaker, Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Poland’s economic situation deteriorated in the 80s when they had a monthly inflation which was above 55%. Because of that, they also took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy which worked very well for that economy. Bolivia did the same and countries like Peru, so the process of de-dollarisation is one which is important for a developing nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe for coming up with a Monetary Policy Statement that is propoor – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaah, Aaah!] – because we know there are very few people in this nation who were accessing the US$. The US$ was only accessible to those people who were doing direct exports and to those who had connections to certain sectors of the economy. The decision by the Government to de-dollarise the economy came at the correct time – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The decision by the Government to de-
dollarise the economy came at the correct time and will help us on reentry into the global market. The President is forever talking about Zimbabwe being open for business. Zimbabwe cannot be open for business without its own currency, when it cannot control its monetary policy or when our people have no access to currency. Madam Speaker
Ma’am, there are people who were saying the fundamentals are not right. I agree with those people because the currency issue is one of the key fundamentals that have to be dealt with once and for all because we cannot have economic fundamentals being right when we do not have a currency. When we look at economic fundamentals, we have to look at systems approach – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We look at a systems approach and a holistic approach to the economy. When we do not have a currency, there are no fundamentals that can be corrected. I want to thank the Government for correcting the first important fundamental, which is the currency issue that has been resolved. So, I thank the Government for this bold move that came at the right time and should not have come at any other time. This is the right time that the Government has made this policy move – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa!
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to
encourage all patriotic Zimbabweans to support the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar because ZIDERA is an albatross. So to counter it is only easy when we have our own currency because we will have space to maneuver as a Government. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my
voice to Hon. Musabayana’s motion. Hon. Speaker, it is important right from the beginning to emphasize that the move to – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. A. MPOFU: I would like to say from the beginning that the introduction of the mono-currency was welcomed by the wider population of Zimbabwe. The introduction of the mono-currency was good news especially to the majority of our population who had no access to the USD. It is also important to point out that as the Hon. Member who spoke before me, the mover of this motion has just indicated, there was need for stability in the economy. There was need to fight corruption because the USD had itself become a very important vehicle in the corrosive, corruptive practice that was now prevalent in the society.
Madam Speaker, the effort to fight corruption is very pivotal to His
Excellency and his Government’s effort to attract foreign direct investment into this country. The only measure therefore, that the Government takes in that direction should be welcomed by Hon. Members. I do respect that the points that have been raised by the mover of this motion have been emphatic enough to justify the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019. I thank you.
HON. BITI: I want to thank you very much for recognizing me in this very important debate. The debate before this House is extremely an important one. It relates to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar which was officially pronounced by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development on the 24th June, 2019, in the form of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019.
I want to make it very clear that this side of the House is firmly and vehemently opposed to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar. We are firmly and vehemently opposed to…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, speak on your
behalf not for the side.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar, the attempt to de-dollarise the Zimbabwean economy is a disaster that will not work. It will not work because the fundamentals for the introduction of our own currency simply do not
exist.
A currency is not a choice that you make like you are changing your clothes. It is not a choice that you make between wearing a green, red dress or a red tie – it is not that choice. It is a choice that is a byproduct of the existence of both political, economic and legal fundamentals. We submit to the Hon. Speaker that the political economy of Zimbabwe did not support the introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar on the 24th June, 2019.
Madam Speaker, when the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced in
2009, it was not the wisdom of us who were at the Ministry of Finance.
It was not the wisdom of any Government bureaucrat, the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced by the market, it was introduced by the people of Zimbabwe who were tired and who were liberating themselves from abuse by the existing Zimbabwean dollar then known as the bearer cheque at the time.
You will recall that in 2006 to 2009, the Zimbabwean economy suffered a crisis of over accumulation, one - in respect of which there was too much money chasing too few goods. You will also recall that all of us were trillionaires and billionaires who could not even buy two bottles of soda, billionaires who could not buy two bottles of Coca-cola. The last time that the RBZ Governor printed our money, it was a hundred thousand trillion dollar note, but that hundred thousand trillion dollar note could not buy you a bicycle.
Madam Speaker, you will remember that when the bearer cheque, the hundred thousand trillion dollar cheque was introduced in September of 2008, 26 zeros had been removed from hundred thousand trillion dollars. If you add 26 zeros, the redenominated currency, to hundred thousand trillion you will have a creature that has no name in the English language. So the Zimbabwean dollar was never displaced voluntarily, it was displaced involuntarily because the market recognised that the Zimbabwean dollar had become an instrument of arbitrage.
Madam Speaker, the Zimbabwean dollar was caught in flagrante, with its pants down and once that happenes, there is nowhere in the world where a country that involuntarily dollarizes can dollarize again. Currencies are a function of confidence, currencies are a function of
trust.
In 2008, the people of Zimbabwe lost confidence and trust in the Zimbabwean Dollar and that trust will never come back again – it does not matter what you do. This is why in the history of mankind - this is fact and pure economics Madam Speaker. In the history of mankind, there is no country in the world except Panama in 1904 that dollarized and was able to de-dollarize, because it is a function of confidence. The countries that Hon. Musabayana referred to - that have managed to introduce their own currency – it is an artificial introduction because their new domestic currencies remain pegged or anchored to the United States dollar. If you go to the Rand Monetary Union, Madam Speaker
Ma’am, the Rand is the currency of use but you will find that eSwathini and Namibia also have their own currencies, but those currencies are pegged to the Rand. So under those circumstances, you cannot speak of de-dollarization when the local currency remained pegged 1:1 to the United States dollar.
So the submission that I am making is that it is not possible to dedollarize. It is not possible to adopt your own currency once economic circumstances have forced you to abandon your currency. So the fundamentals that were a prerequisite to the introduction …
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker on a Point of Order!
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Biti is misleading this House because he is saying that the United States dollar remained pegged at 1:1 to the
Zimbabwe Dollar which is not what is happening in our markets … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - No, that is what he said.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon.
Musabayana, he was referring to the Rand.
HON. MUSABAYANA: No, he said the United States Dollar and the Zimbabwe Dollar remained pegged 1:1. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, the fundamentals for the introduction of Zimbabwe’s own currency do not exist. For Zimbabwe to even consider the economy must be producing; there must be productivity in the economy; there must be jobs - Madam Speaker, I seek protection from Hon. Matangira. I think that he is abusive and his conduct is not becoming of a Member of Parliament. I seek protection Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Matangira.
Hon. Biti you are protected, you may go ahead.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this year alone, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Zimbabwe, according to the Regional Economic Outlook issued by the IMF in April of 2019 will be minus 5.5% and that projection was made in April of 2019. Since then, we have had power shortages that have never been known in the history of this country. We have had power shortages that are lasting
18 hours and sometimes 20 hours, and when you do not have electricity Madam Speaker, you have no production.
So this means that our productivity levels, the growth rate this year will be around minus 8.5%. When you are not producing and when 95% of your people are in the informal sector selling vegetables, air time and tomatoes, you do not have an economy that can sustain the reintroduction of your currency…
HON. MUSABAYANA: On a point of order Madam Speaker,
Hon. Biti is misleading the House. He is saying that the growth rate will be minus 8%. Where is he getting those figures from, because this is not happening and it is not true – [AN HON. MEMBER: That is why he mentioned that it is a projection kani!] - But where is he getting those figures from? He must not be allowed to mislead the nation. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - He must tell us the source of his information so that we can verify it. You cannot just come to this august House and start throwing around figures. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, the conduct of Hon. Musabayana is very unparliamentary. I said that the IMF in its Regional Economic
Outlook published in April of 2019, and put the growth rate at minus 5.5% but at that time we did not have the huge power cuts that we have; at the time we did not have the full effect of the huge drought that is affecting our country and our country is an agricultural based economy; at the time in April 2019 we did not have the huge impact of Cyclone Idai which has affected our economy. So the projection of minus 5.5% is understated – the real projection is minus 8.5%. So without productivity, you cannot have an economy and you cannot sustain your currency.
Secondly Madam Speaker, you need exports and a positive balance in your current account. A currency, at the end of the day Madam
Speaker, is a relationship between your exports and imports. At the present moment Madam Speaker Ma’am, our imports are around US$7.9 billion and our exports that which we sell outside are around US$3 billion. So the ratio of our exports to imports is a ratio of 1:4 – put simply Madam Speaker, for every dollar that we are receiving in the form of export receipts - $4.00 are going out in the form of imports. So, when you have a deficit of 4:1 – where your current account deficit is minus 15% of GDP - you do not have an economy to sustain the reintroduction of your own currency.
I move Madam Speaker to reserves. You need foreign currency reserves in the form of either money or gold and we do not have those reserves. Madam Speaker, little Botswana across the river there has got reserves of US$9 billion. It lends money to the IMF and to the World Bank. We have absolutely no reserve, the Central Bank is absolutely broke and is insolvent for all intents and purposes.
Thirdly Madam Speaker, we need balance of payment reserves. So I have spoken of reserves – national reserves and now I am talking about a balance of payment reserves. Madam Speaker, when the Government of National Unity (GNU) collapsed in 2013, we left at the IMF reserves worth US$350 million in the form of special drawing rights that were kept at the Central Bank. Those US$350 million were just two weeks import cover, considering that our imports are US$7 billion. Madam Speaker, as I am talking to you right now, Zimbabwe has wiped off US$350 million worth of reserves. The only money that is now in that account is US$2 million just for bank charges. So without balance of payments reserves Madam Speaker – you do not have the stamina to introduce your own currency.
Of all these things that I have spoken of Madam Speaker, the most important thing that you need to introduce your currency is confidence and trust. This country is suffering from kwashiorkor of confidence and kwashiorkor of trust as no one trusts the Government, the country and the Zimbabwean Dollar that ruined people. Madam Speaker, pensioners lost their money because of the Zimbabwean Dollar and the working people of Zimbabwe lost their savings because of the Zimbabwean Dollar. So no one can ever trust the Zimbabwean Dollar, including you, yourself Madam Speaker Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] –
The Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry into pension funds which was published in March, 2017 reported that US$5.68 billion worth of insurance funds - both long term life insurance and short term were lost – US$5.68 billion. So it is not possible to expect the same Zimbabwean public to accept the introduction and we know Madam
Speaker Ma’am that the Zimbabwean public has rejected the RTGs Dollar since including the Government itself. Two weeks after the enactment of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019, Cabinet set and I am glad they are esteemed Cabinet Ministers in the House. Cabinet sat and allowed companies in Victoria Falls and hotels to charge and levy in US dollars and pay their VAT in US dollars. So Cabinet itself, the author of this misfortunate Statutory Instrument has accepted that it will not work and it cannot work – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, if you want proof that the RTGs is not working, you need to look at the inflation figures. In May 2019, before the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation was 96%.
In June of 2019, after the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation is now 175%. That is official Madam Speaker, but the ordinary person who shops in a supermarket will tell you that bread went from RTGs 1.20 to RTGs7.20. So if you do the mathematics just on bread and mazoe alone our inflation in real terms is 700%. Even accepting the ZIMSTATS figure, the official definition of hyper inflation is where you have month on month inflation moving by a fact of 80%. If you subtract 96 from 175, it is over 80%. So, we are already in a hyper-inflationary environment. Our inflation at the present moment Madam Speaker, is second only to Venezuela...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, you are only left
with five minutes.
HON. BITI: Only to Venezuela as I am speaking to you but it is not acceptable for a people and a country that went through the days of hyperinflation in 2006 to 2009. When our inflation got to 500 billion percent, it is...
HON. TSUNGA: On a point of order Madam Speaker Sir.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. TSUNGA: I propose extension of time, this is important.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We cannot extend before it
expires.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, we are the first country in the history of countries to have two bouts of hyperinflation in less than 10 years. We had a hyperinflation in 2007/8, we are now in 2019 but we have had hyperinflation. This is the first country that has gone through two cataleptic catalysm breakdown implosions in a country that has not gone to war. Zimbabwe has not been to war in the last 10 years but it is reflecting features of a country that went to war. In fact, the only country in the history of mankind that went through these implosions is Germany through the two World Wars. So, Zimbabwe which has not gone to war is reflecting signs of Germany which went through two World Wars, it is unbelievable Madam Speaker. It is a sign of failure, deep failure, structural failure, unbelievable failure and unpardonable failure.
Madam Speaker, there are myths that are being peddled by Hon.
Musabayana about why the US dollar failed in Zimbabwe. When the Government of National Unity collapsed in 2013, we left physical cash amounting to US$6.5 billion. You recall Madam Speaker, that any Zimbabwean was free to go to an automated teller machine to get cash; so that money was there physically in Zimbabwe. A problem happened and that problem was the Minister of Finance in the form of Minister Hon. Patrick Chinamasa who unleashed an expansionary fiscal policy, who could not live within his means and started doing one thing which the Government of National Unity had not done, which is budget deficits and which is deficit financing. So, the budget deficit grew; right now as I am talking to you Madam Speaker, domestic debt is over US$9 billion and this is a bi-product of Chinamasa...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti.
HON. TSUNGA: Madam Speaker, may the Hon. Member’s time
be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. MATANGIRA: I object because we also want to debate –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. T. MLISWA: You do not have anything to debate, you are just objecting for nothing, we need to be serious when we are here.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti and
there was an objection.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker... – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: I think we need to be sober minded. I think when we come to this august House and a motion of this magnitude has been moved, I think it is quite disturbing for other members who just have the propensity to just get up and say I object. Hon. Biti is quite seasoned in this area, whether you like it or not; even a lot of us have a lot to learn. I think if at all he was being abusive or insulting anyone in his debate, one could have raised a point of order to say this is wrong. I do not think we will ever build the country if we are not united in national interests. Part of this House is to debate on issues and if we disagree with one another, then allow the person to equally debate. I think we tend to also lose it because a Parliament with just one party means nothing at the end of the day. A Parliament must be seen to be a Parliament that accommodates everyone. We see people standing from nowhere. Since Hon. Matangira came in, he has been making noise and if it were me I would have been sent out already. He came in, I do not know whether he had smoked, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – This is retrogressive, what he is doing is not good – [HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. He is abusive, he is saying I smoke.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, please may
you take your seat?
HON. T. MLISWA: I stand by my word that you do take marijuana. You can go for blood testing and you will be found intact, munoputa mbanje vamwe venyu muchiuya kubasa.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please
withdraw your statement?
HON. T. MLISWA: I will not withdraw because he once offered me a smoke and I refused – [Laughter.] –
HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker
Maám. The Hon. Member is quite abusive but any way, we know one another. I do not smoke. If he does smoke, he must smoke it alone not with me – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I see
myself fortunate to debate in such a crucial…
HON. KARENYI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I think in this House we must show maturity. If I remember very well, the other side of the House always ask for extension and we do not oppose. If it is the game, in other words, if you ask for any extension; whether it is an important debate or what, we will oppose because to be very honest today it is not even fair at all. We always show a sign of maturity and unity. If you ask for an extension we always give you but today you have shown that you are in the majority and you have shown it. In future, we will also object and I want it to be minuted that if you ask for an extension we will oppose – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Kashambe, please may you go ahead.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I feel
myself fortunate to also present my debate on this important matter of the nation. Taking cognisant of the fact that 70% of our Zimbabwean population stays in the rural areas and 30% stay in urban areas, the abolishment of the multi-currency is a welcome development especially in the rural areas. Why am I saying so….
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. We are not enough, there are about 40 people, it is not the required quorum for this
Parliament to sit. –[AN HON. MEMBER: Watoputa mbanje manje
Mliswa.] -
Bell rung.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at Four O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Chibagu, G.; Hon. Chikuni, E.; Hon. Chipato, A.; Hon.
Dzepasi, G.; Hon. Gwanetsa, K. K.; Hon. Kabozo, S.; Hon. Kambamura,
P.; Hon. Kapuya, F.; Hon. Karumazondo, M.T.; Hon. Kashambe, M. T.;
Hon. Kashiri, C.; Hon. Maboyi, R. M; Hon. Madziva, S.; Hon.
Maronge, C.; Hon. Masango, C.P.; Hon. Masenda, N. T.; Hon.
Mashonganyika, D.; Hon. Matangira, T. R.; Hon. Matsikenyere, N.;
Hon. Mavetera, T. A.; Hon. Mawite, D.; Hon.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege. I continue arming you with more information in terms of the welfare of the Members of Parliament. The first issue is, whilst some had gone to pick a $50 000 car others have been given an allowance of $55 000 and these are members of the Speaker’s Panel, Standing Rules and Orders members and Chairpersons. The question that I bring to you Madam Speaker is, if that is the correct position, I would like to know where they got the extra $5 000 from because $50 000 is what was said was the cap. Are we today not the same, are we different today?
So Madam Speaker, it is important that you also look into it. I saw a letter myself which gave others $55 000 and the majority had $50 000. – [AN HON. MEMBER: We are all Members of Parliament.] – Madam Speaker, regardless of the number of votes that you got, as long as you won you are entitled.
The second issue is - can the Administration of Parliament furnish the nation of Zimbabwe with our remuneration because people think we are getting a salary of $5 000 or $10 000. It is important that Parliament of Zimbabwe puts in the Herald what we are being given, that is $2 000 and allowances because each time we come to this House and we push for our welfare they think we are being selfish. Ministers are still being given Land Cruisers and Mercedes Benz. So, how can the austerity measures be targeted to Parliamentarians only and not the Executive yet we know for a very long time, it is the Executive that has been spending a lot of money.
Madam Speaker, I am also told there are people who had a choice to buy Isuzu vehicles from Paza Buster. I am told again that ugly head of corruption has visited our august House where people are now being told where to buy vehicles and are being told not to go to Paza Buster.
Madam Speaker, can you also look into that and find out why Paza Buster is not part of the list because other people prefer Toyota and others prefer Isuzu. It means that even those who want to marry must be given a wife at the end of the day yet you have a choice of a wife. I think it is important that we are treated like adults, we are not young children and we are constantly being treated like young children. That must stop. We have a choice of association. The Constitution itself talks about freedom of association, so whether I go and buy a vehicle from Croco Motors or Paza Buster, it is my choice. I thought Madam Speaker, I should raise these issues.
Finally, let me talk about the diplomatic passport. The President approved for every Member of Parliament to have a diplomatic passport. Who is working against the President in not taking the order from the
President? – [AN HON. MEMBER: Seva ipapo.] – The President, the Head of State has said all Members of Parliament must be given diplomatic passports. We do not have them. So, who is stopping that from happening? There are people working against the President and soon they shall be exposed.
Madam Speaker, let me move on to our welfare. We shall stop debating any other issues in Parliament until our welfare is taken care of. We are tired of passing Bills, we are tired of passing laws yet we are nothing at the end of the day. So, Madam Speaker, I thank you very much and I know Madam Speaker, as a mother you feel for us your children. I know your heart is aching, we are your children, please advance this for us. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa, I have
noted all your concerns, I am going to look into them and will give a ruling later. I want you to give me the letter which you referred to.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Administration of
Parliament is the one that sent that letter. I managed to see it in one of the companies; unless they say they did not write the letter, I will bring the letter. They have the letter that they wrote for $55 000. Madam
Speaker, I just managed to bump into the letter when I went to one of these car sales companies. The $55 000 was for Chairpersons, SRC,
Speakers Panel and I think Hon. Mutomba’s name was not on the list, I do not know why because he is on the Speaker’s Panel. That letter did not have Parliament letterhead. So, I do not know where it came from, if they cannot give you that letter by today, tomorrow I will produce it. I will go and ask the letter from the company that I saw it from.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Mliswa. I am
going to look into the matters.
HON. MADZIMURE: I rise on a matter of privilege. Madam
Speaker, the issue of electricity has gone to a situation where it is no longer bearable. Madam Speaker, we have now experienced deaths being caused by the gas leakages because every house is now depending on gas. The price of gas is continuously going up. The industry is being switched off from 0700 hrs in the morning to 2200 hrs in the evening. Madam Speaker, this as a result diminishes any chances of economic revival.
Madam Speaker, the biggest tragedy is that there is no good reason being advanced, if it is because we cannot purchase more electricity then let it be known that we cannot. The issue of the water levels in Kariba – it is known that until our worst we have rains falling in Angola, DRC and Zambia there will not be any in-flows into the lake. So, with that in mind and it is a fact, can the Hon. Minister, I was actually going to ask for the Vice President to come and address this august House – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and inform the whole nation whether the
Government has completely failed to deal with the issue of electricity.
Madam Speaker, the Auditor-General’s reports are revealing
shocking corruption to the extent that $120 000.00 that is required to pay off our electricity debt can easily be paid off by the Government if the Government could look after the money that flows into Government. The situation is dire and people are being mugged when going to join shifts at 2200 hrs in the evening because no industry has electricity. So Madam Speaker, I ask for a high-powered Ministerial Statement because the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power Development has failed to give an understandable reason as to why we do not have electricity. It seems he is completely in the dark – he knows nothing about what is happening. So either he resigns or a high-powered Government representative comes here to explain to the nation. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [HON. BITI: I also have a point of privilege Madam Speaker!] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me give a ruling first to that one. – [HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker.] – Hon.
Madzimure, I think that the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power
Development gave a Ministerial Statement less than three weeks ago – [AN HON. MEMBER: But no solution because things are now worse!] - You are now saying that you want a higher Office? – [HON.
MADZIMURE: Yes.] – Alright, on that one I will refer the issue to the Government Chief Whip, maybe he can convey the message on our behalf. – [HON. TOGAREPI: Maybe if he could put the message in writing for me to convey Madam Speaker?] – Hon. Madzimure, the Government Chief Whip is asking if you can put it in writing so that he may convey the message.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, I wanted clarification on whether you are saying – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: My question was, should I put it in writing as a question or what I am saying to the Chief Whip so that is conveyed to Government?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Writing what you are saying
so that the Chief Whip will convey it to higher Offices.
HON. MADZIMURE: I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I rise once
again on a Matter of privilege and the Matter of privilege is being brought in terms of Standing Order 68.
Madam Speaker, a month ago, the Hon. Speaker made a ruling and determination on the availability of the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
The esteemed and distinguished Hon. Speaker, Adv. Jacob Mudenda,
Esquire directed that the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Sekesai Nzenza comes to this august House within two weeks from his determination to explain to this august House when she was going to present the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
This august House has got the duty and obligation to oversee every public institution and that obligation is defined in Sections 117 and 199 of the Constitution. More specifically on public funds, Sections 298 and 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe state that this august House scrutinises every cent that comes out and goes into the State. So we ask for a determination – a ruling from your esteemed self that the Hon. Minister, tomorrow should lay before this august House, in compliance with the Hon. Speaker’s determination the much heaped NSSA forensic report. I thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your point of privilege is noted Hon. Biti. I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: If you could just make a ruling that Hon. Sekesai Nzenza presents the report tomorrow.] - A ruling was made by the Hon. Speaker, Adv. Mudenda and I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: As Your Lordship pleases.] –
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 33 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 34 has been disposed of.
HON. MUDARIKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUPPORT OF THE NEW ZIMBABWE CURRENCY
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker, I move the motion
standing in my name that this House –
COGNISANT of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 issued by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development abolishing the multicurrency regime in favour of the introduction of the Zimbabwe’s own local currency, the Zimbabwe dollar with effect from 24th June, 2019;
ALSO COGNISANT of the structural distortions in the economy caused by the existence of the multi-currency regime;
DEEPLY CONCERNED that the continued use of the multicurrency regime was now a root cause of the suffering of ordinary Zimbabweans who had no easy access to the United States dollar which had emerged the dominant currency in this basket of currencies;
AWARE of the Government’s noble intentions to mitigate the suffering of the general population;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon this august House to support in earnest the new Zimbabwean currency.
HON. MUSAKWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: Excuse me Madam Speaker, I do know if these seats steal but I do not know if anybody has seen my phone – an IPhone X10. Sorry the Sergeant-at-Arms has once again done his job well by keeping it. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Thank you Sergeant-at-Arms.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency system in February 2009, thereby officially discontinuing the use of the Zimbabwean dollar. Zimbabwe abandoned its local currency after it had been ravaged by hyper-inflation which topped 231million percent. The country adopted a basket of currencies among the...
HON. BITI: On a point or order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: The Hon. Member is reading, he is allowed to refer to his notes and not read.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Musabayana, you are
allowed to refer to your notes not to read.
HON. MUSABAYANA: I thought it is allowed on motions. I will take that again. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency regime in February 2009. This was after the Zimbabwean dollar had been ravaged by inflation. Adopting a multi-currency regime meant that there was a currency substitution where the Zimbabwean dollar was now working or operating in a basket of other currencies. This basket of other currencies included the US dollar, South African Rand, Botswana Pula, British
Pound, Japanese Yen and many other currencies, more recently the RTGs dollar and the bond notes and coins.
At the point of its introduction, the multi-currency system worked because it was meant to stabilize the economy that had been battered by inflation. In terms of curreny substitution, we are looking at a situation where a nation decides to use another currency or other currencies as a medium of exchange and this is exactly what happened in the
Zimbabwean economy. At that time the economy stabilized, there was confidence in the market because with the US dollar, the investors had more confidence and there was flow of capital investments in the economy.
It was also this time that because of the dollarization, our economy stabilized and inflation also fell to levels below 10%. So at that point, it really worked. In 2015, the Zimbabwean dollar was official demonetized at a rate of US$5 to Z$175 quadrillion Zimbabwean dollars with 15 zeroes. So the journey of the dollarization started in that year. Why am I now talking of dollarization, it is because slowly the economy was now accepting more of the US dollar and the rest of the currencies were now relegated from transaction? So, the US dollar crowded out other currencies, it out competed other currencies in the basket of currencies, including the Zimbabwean dollar.
This dollarization process if you look at it, there are other countries that also took the same path, countries like Panama in 1904, Argentina in 1991, also took the dollarization route after the economy was hard hit by hyperinflation, El Salvador in 2001, Ecuador in 2000, Brazil and Mexico also did the same in the 1990s. It is important to note that this dollarization process that Zimbabwe took was more of a default, it was not by design but by default, making the US dollar a de-facto currency.
When the dollarisation process started, there were some vices associated with that but we are also looking at a silver lining to this dollarization process. With the dollarisation of the economy, it meant more stability to the economy but it also meant that our imports, goods and services were available because it was now easier for Zimbabweans to access foreign capital. The fact that there was a US dollar it meant that the economy was stable for investors because the risk of instability associated with the depreciation of domestic currency was no longer happening because we were trading with the strongest currency. A currency that is used in some jurisdictions as a reserve currency – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The dollarized economy also meant a
fall in interest rates. We also saw the interest rates which were provided by our banks falling which was important for investors, which also saw the boost in the agriculture sector and the mining sector. However, as the dollarisation continued, we also saw the speculative behaviour of some sectors of the economy not being spared. This eliminated speculative tendencies that were synonymous with the Zimbabwean dollar era. So, the full dollarization created a positive investment sentiment to the Zimbabwean economy. The other positive thing that was associated with dollarization is that it reduced overall need of international reserves since the currency that was used was actually a currency that was used by some jurisdictions as a reserve currency. As a fiat currency, it become handy for Zimbabweans to use the US dollars.
Having said that the US dollars has its own disadvantages, the multi-currency or the substitution of domestic currency with foreign currencies meant that the Zimbabwean economy lost its monetary sovereignty and this is normally associated with loss of national sovereignty. This loss in sovereignty meant that it was now very difficult for Zimbabwe to control the money supply, because the money supply is controlled by the Reserve Bank. As a result of that, there was now way that the Reserve Bank was able to control the money supply
[HON. BITI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Biti.
HON. BITI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: I am asking Hon. Musabayane whether we eat sovereignty.
HON. MUSABAYANE: The economy was now using the US
dollars; it was now difficult for the Minister of Finance or for the economy to run. There was no fiscal space to induce productivity in the economy. The Government was then left with no option but to issue Treasury Bills, and because in terms of credit lines and other forms of investment that can be brought from abroad - it was tight because of ZIDERA. We know what ZIDERA does, it blocks any form of investments from the international community that is destined to Zimbabwe. ZIDERA also brought credit lines that we can access as an economy, because of that ZIDERA - and we know who are the architects of ZIDERA in this august House. So it was very difficult for our economy to move forward because of ZIDERA. As such, the economy stagnated and with that stagnation the Government had to try to chip in with TBs and we saw domestic debt spiking up to around $12 billion.
The lack of monetary policy flexibility also exposed Zimbabwe to real financial shocks. This is so because we did not adopt the United States Dollar (US$) by choice. It was just a straightjacket that was imposed on Zimbabwe, so it made it very difficult for Zimbabwe to maneuver in terms of investment and meeting its social obligation. The other challenge with the US$ economy was that it meant that Zimbabwe had to import the US$, which was an advantage to the United States economy. To import the US$, Zimbabwe had to fork out extra dollars, hence millions of dollars were spend in importing US$. As you know the currency is to an economy what blood is to the body of a human being. So, you cannot survive on blood that is bought on a daily basis, it is not sustainable. This is exactly what happened to our economy where we had to buy currency to be able to do transactions in this economy.
What the Government did is they were charging dollar to dollar for the importation of the US$, yet it only costs United States 6 cents to produce a US$ note, which means the United States were making at least 95 cents per one US$ that was imported to this economy. This is why…. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: This is why you hear people supporting the continuous use of the US$ because they knew that the Zimbabwe economy was now supporting the American economy, because they were making super profit of 94 cents per US$. So we had actually became one of the cash cows of the American economy and the US Government generates about US$20 billion every year, that is from printing money that it exports to those nations that use its currency as a defacto currency.
The US$ also meant our exports were no longer competitive on the global market because the US$ is very strong and it meant that our exports were very expensive and not competitive. So we were not capable to compete fairly on the global market. Therefore, the United States economy was having an advantage in that respect. The US$ made it very difficult for this economy to issue medium to long term security papers to the productive sector, because it was also denominated in a foreign currency which we did not have a reserve for. In other words the Central Bank lost its role as the lender of last resort to the banking system. When all this is said and done, the use of foreign currency instead of a local currency damaged the nation’s sense of pride, because local currency is a symbol of a Sovereignty State. We all know that when it happened we did not have enough reserves in our coffers in terms of gold.
Now I come back to the Zimbabwe scenario, the serious challenges that obtained because we were operating in a dollarised economy.
Slowly, we saw the RTGs and the Bond note losing traction to the US$ and we saw a widening gap between the declared 1 to 1 exchange rate by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and what was obtaining on the market – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
please may you lower your voices.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We ended up with a situation where we
had two economies in one nation, where we had those people who had access to the foreign currency paying less than those who did not have access to foreign currency. Also, the US$ failed as a medium exchange, why, because a medium exchange should be readily available to those people who want to use it, but this did not happen because the forex was only available to those people who were around border towns and those in cities but for the rural communities they did not get access to the US$ and they were not able to trade freely in the day-to-day running of their lives. This became a serious challenge to our citizens.
It also happened that the bigger cities were also paying a premium because there was huge competition for the US$ for those who wanted to import goods and services. So it disadvantaged certain sectors of the economy, thus creating serious underlying distortions in our economy. We saw urban centres being invaded by illegal foreign currency traders as the US$ and Bond note became commoditised, when we say a currency is now being commoditised, we mean it is no longer just a store of value or medium of exchange, but people are actually using it as merchandise. They are actually buying or sell the currency which is not good for the fundamentals of the economy.
When the saw US$ being the dominant currency - which meant economy was fast dollarising – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
may the Hon. Member be heard in silence?.
. When the economy started to be fast dollarised – the dollarisation process had reached alarming stages where we think as a nation we were crossing the Rubicon River, a point of no return. It was now going to be very difficult as an economy to go back to de-dollarise because every sector was becoming dollarised and because of that, we had certain sectors of the economies now demanding payments of their salaries in US$. This was going to pose a serious challenge to the Government because the Government had very limited sources of foreign currency, because our economy is 90% informal. With 90% in the informal economy, only 10% of the economy will be paying taxes into the economy and this money which was being paid was in local currency, thus making it almost difficult if not impossible for the Government to pay civil servants. The civil servants, even the private sector were justifying, saying that because all the goods and services that they could access in the market were now marked in US$.
They were not only rated in US$ but the sellers of these merchandise were actually demanding the US$ in every transaction that was taking place and because of that the Ministry of Finance and Government saw it fit to take calculated steps to de-dollarise the economy. The de-dollarisation process was not an immediate response but it was a well calculated and formulated process which is enshrined in the Transitional Stabilisation Programme. This is why we saw the Minister of Finance talking about currency reforms in October last year and in January this year. We saw all these things happening because the Government was well organised in executing a currency reform. We need to advise those people who were misinformed thinking that it was a knee jerk response – no it was not. It was a well calculated and planned process of currency reform.
The President also highlighted it in some of his speeches as he psychologically prepared the nation to accept the coming in of a new currency. This is why we saw the currency reform eventually taking shape.
What does it mean for Zimbabwe to have a Zimbabwean dollar? Having a Zimbabwean dollar is a boom for Zimbabweans because it meant that all those legacy debts which were at one to one as announced by the Minister in April meant that they will be able to clear their balances using the US dollar. The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also mean that the Zimbabweans or investors in Zimbabwe are now able to access capital easily and banks will be able to have the Zimbabwean dollar because the US dollar was very illusive and it was difficult to access – [HON. SIKHALA: Is it still available?] - The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also means that the Zimbabwean exports are now competitive on the international market because the US dollar was too expensive. The US dollar is difficult to access, it is used as a store of value and it is commoditised, making it difficult to use as a currency for any nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is also important to note that other nations besides Zimbabwe have actually moved away from the US dollar. If we look at the global scenario, China, Russia, India and Turkey are moving away from the US dollar. It is no longer sustainable as a currency. It is being dethroned as a defacto currency of the world.
Why? Because all producers were cheated by Henry Kissinger to believe that they should sell all their oil in US dollars but this has since changed because the Chinese have negotiated with the Russians and they have agreed that they are now pegging the oil in the Russian currency. The Chinese have also taken bold steps to move away from the US petrol dollar to the Yuan. This shows that the US dollar has lost traction as a defacto international currency.
The US dollar is also overrated because it has no backing whatsoever. It does not have reserves to back it. It is just mere confidence. If you look at the USA as we speak, they are in huge debts that they owe China and Japan. Because of that, it means that their economy is no longer sustainable going forward – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – As Zimbabweans, we took the correct decision to move away from the US dollar. China has also taken bold steps to make sure that internationally, its currency is being accepted as a medium of exchange. This means that the US dollar is no longer a strong currency as it was. Like I said, other countries are also moving away from the US dollar. So it was wise for our Government to introduce S.I. 142 of 2019.
With the introduction of the US dollar, we have also seen our banks benefiting from the 50% interest that has been introduced because before that, what was now happening was that people were borrowing from the bank or those people bent on speculation were borrowing from the bank; take the money to the parallel market, exchange the money, burn it and go back to pay the loans. This was causing inflation and instability into the economy but this gap has been closed by the introduction of the 50% interest on loans. This has also helped to save the country from receding into recession. We are happy that the Government introduced the Zimbabwean dollar.
Introducing a Zimbabwean dollar may not be enough but we want the Government to add on a number of policy measures so that they will stabilise the economy. We propose that the Government accelerates the re-engagement process so that we promote investment into this country. When we talk of re-engagement, we are talking of re-engagement at all levels of the state. We are looking at all Government departments – they must be engaged in the re-engagement process with the rest of the world. When we say re-engagement, we mean true re-engagement where the Government rank and file is singing the same hymn from the same hymn book and if possible singing with the same tune. We do not want a situation where the President goes it alone when it comes to reengagement -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: We also propose that the Government
deals with corruption ruthlessly and perpetrators of illicit financial flows because this will create uncertainty in the economy and also discourages foreign direct investment. For us to improve our rankings on the global market, we need to deal with corruption ruthlessly. Remember, corruption is white collar crime and it is very complex and intricate. It is important that those who deal with corruption are trained and coached on how to profile corruption and how to execute the whole process.
While we applaud the Government’s austerity measures, I think at this stage our economy now requires inducement policies that will ensure that we re-energise the demand for our economy. If this does not happen, we are fearful that sooner or later, a recession cycle will set in and this will cripple our economy as we do not want that to happen.
We also realise that the reason why the economy is slowly dollarised or ended up being dollarised was because of speculative behaviour and the attempt by citizens to try and hedge their interest by keeping all their savings in foreign currency. To ensure that this does not happen again, we are also proposing that as an economy we should start creating our own reserves where we can use our diamonds, platinum and our gold as reserves so that our Zimbabwean dollar will also be regarded as strong currency and that we move away slowly from the fiat currency obtaining in the economy.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, while we applaud the Minister’s move to de-dollarise the economy, we also need to deal with the liquidity crisis that is currently happening in the economy. Workers and pensioners are spending valuable time which should be assigned to productivity to queuing at banking halls. This should come to an end and increase our productivity. The use of plastic money should be as a matter of choice or convenience not the only alternative. If there is shortage of cash in the economy, we find people trading the bank note. At the moment, people have commoditised the bond note, they are selling cash and this is also creating corruption in our economy because businesses that deal with cash are able to sell cash at a premium creating distortions in our markets. So, we implore the Hon. Minister to ensure that he closes the liquidity gap that is in the market.
We also want to encourage the Hon. Minister to pursue a strategy which brings back confidence into our domestic currency. We know confidence is anchored with consistency and confidence is also anchored on political stability and good corporate governance. We therefore urge the Minister to ensure that we have policies that inspire confidence in the eyes of domestic and foreign players.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, we also propose that we have a currency board to restore confidence in the financial sector. The currency board will make sure that there is proper allocation of currency to the needy sectors of the economy, mining, agriculture and other capital projects. We also want to ensure that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) is independent in its operations. The independence of the RBZ will also inspire confidence with our monetary sector.
If we do not have a properly constituted board that manages currency in our economy, we will also end up with issues to do with corruption where certain people are given preference or jump queues when they approach the bank. So, we want a situation where there is proper allocation of the available foreign currency to the needy sectors of the economy. To underpin why I think the Government took a correct and bold stance in going back to the Zimbabwean dollar; we have many other nations in the world which have taken the same route; Sierra
Leone’s Government in 2015 expressed the desire to de-dollarise the economy and the Central Bank Governor of that country, Dr. Kaifala Marah took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy. There was a presidential appeal where they chose to de-dollarise the economy. Mexico and Pakistan also implemented a more rapid and forced dedollarisation and it was sustainable. However, this comes at a cost because of macro-economic imbalances that happened and there was huge capital flight and less financial intermediation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in the 70s, Israel also de-dollarised their economy. Russia is also in the process of doing away with the US dollar, so we are not alone in this journey of de-dollarisation. Madam
Speaker, Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Poland’s economic situation deteriorated in the 80s when they had a monthly inflation which was above 55%. Because of that, they also took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy which worked very well for that economy. Bolivia did the same and countries like Peru, so the process of de-dollarisation is one which is important for a developing nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe for coming up with a Monetary Policy Statement that is propoor – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaah, Aaah!] – because we know there are very few people in this nation who were accessing the US$. The US$ was only accessible to those people who were doing direct exports and to those who had connections to certain sectors of the economy. The decision by the Government to de-dollarise the economy came at the correct time – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The decision by the Government to de-
dollarise the economy came at the correct time and will help us on reentry into the global market. The President is forever talking about Zimbabwe being open for business. Zimbabwe cannot be open for business without its own currency, when it cannot control its monetary policy or when our people have no access to currency. Madam Speaker
Ma’am, there are people who were saying the fundamentals are not right. I agree with those people because the currency issue is one of the key fundamentals that have to be dealt with once and for all because we cannot have economic fundamentals being right when we do not have a currency. When we look at economic fundamentals, we have to look at systems approach – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We look at a systems approach and a holistic approach to the economy. When we do not have a currency, there are no fundamentals that can be corrected. I want to thank the Government for correcting the first important fundamental, which is the currency issue that has been resolved. So, I thank the Government for this bold move that came at the right time and should not have come at any other time. This is the right time that the Government has made this policy move – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa!
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to
encourage all patriotic Zimbabweans to support the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar because ZIDERA is an albatross. So to counter it is only easy when we have our own currency because we will have space to maneuver as a Government. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my
voice to Hon. Musabayana’s motion. Hon. Speaker, it is important right from the beginning to emphasize that the move to – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. A. MPOFU: I would like to say from the beginning that the introduction of the mono-currency was welcomed by the wider population of Zimbabwe. The introduction of the mono-currency was good news especially to the majority of our population who had no access to the USD. It is also important to point out that as the Hon. Member who spoke before me, the mover of this motion has just indicated, there was need for stability in the economy. There was need to fight corruption because the USD had itself become a very important vehicle in the corrosive, corruptive practice that was now prevalent in the society.
Madam Speaker, the effort to fight corruption is very pivotal to His
Excellency and his Government’s effort to attract foreign direct investment into this country. The only measure therefore, that the Government takes in that direction should be welcomed by Hon. Members. I do respect that the points that have been raised by the mover of this motion have been emphatic enough to justify the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019. I thank you.
HON. BITI: I want to thank you very much for recognizing me in this very important debate. The debate before this House is extremely an important one. It relates to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar which was officially pronounced by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development on the 24th June, 2019, in the form of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019.
I want to make it very clear that this side of the House is firmly and vehemently opposed to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar. We are firmly and vehemently opposed to…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, speak on your
behalf not for the side.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar, the attempt to de-dollarise the Zimbabwean economy is a disaster that will not work. It will not work because the fundamentals for the introduction of our own currency simply do not
exist.
A currency is not a choice that you make like you are changing your clothes. It is not a choice that you make between wearing a green, red dress or a red tie – it is not that choice. It is a choice that is a byproduct of the existence of both political, economic and legal fundamentals. We submit to the Hon. Speaker that the political economy of Zimbabwe did not support the introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar on the 24th June, 2019.
Madam Speaker, when the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced in
2009, it was not the wisdom of us who were at the Ministry of Finance.
It was not the wisdom of any Government bureaucrat, the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced by the market, it was introduced by the people of Zimbabwe who were tired and who were liberating themselves from abuse by the existing Zimbabwean dollar then known as the bearer cheque at the time.
You will recall that in 2006 to 2009, the Zimbabwean economy suffered a crisis of over accumulation, one - in respect of which there was too much money chasing too few goods. You will also recall that all of us were trillionaires and billionaires who could not even buy two bottles of soda, billionaires who could not buy two bottles of Coca-cola. The last time that the RBZ Governor printed our money, it was a hundred thousand trillion dollar note, but that hundred thousand trillion dollar note could not buy you a bicycle.
Madam Speaker, you will remember that when the bearer cheque, the hundred thousand trillion dollar cheque was introduced in September of 2008, 26 zeros had been removed from hundred thousand trillion dollars. If you add 26 zeros, the redenominated currency, to hundred thousand trillion you will have a creature that has no name in the English language. So the Zimbabwean dollar was never displaced voluntarily, it was displaced involuntarily because the market recognised that the Zimbabwean dollar had become an instrument of arbitrage.
Madam Speaker, the Zimbabwean dollar was caught in flagrante, with its pants down and once that happenes, there is nowhere in the world where a country that involuntarily dollarizes can dollarize again. Currencies are a function of confidence, currencies are a function of
trust.
In 2008, the people of Zimbabwe lost confidence and trust in the Zimbabwean Dollar and that trust will never come back again – it does not matter what you do. This is why in the history of mankind - this is fact and pure economics Madam Speaker. In the history of mankind, there is no country in the world except Panama in 1904 that dollarized and was able to de-dollarize, because it is a function of confidence. The countries that Hon. Musabayana referred to - that have managed to introduce their own currency – it is an artificial introduction because their new domestic currencies remain pegged or anchored to the United States dollar. If you go to the Rand Monetary Union, Madam Speaker
Ma’am, the Rand is the currency of use but you will find that eSwathini and Namibia also have their own currencies, but those currencies are pegged to the Rand. So under those circumstances, you cannot speak of de-dollarization when the local currency remained pegged 1:1 to the United States dollar.
So the submission that I am making is that it is not possible to dedollarize. It is not possible to adopt your own currency once economic circumstances have forced you to abandon your currency. So the fundamentals that were a prerequisite to the introduction …
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker on a Point of Order!
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Biti is misleading this House because he is saying that the United States dollar remained pegged at 1:1 to the
Zimbabwe Dollar which is not what is happening in our markets … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - No, that is what he said.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon.
Musabayana, he was referring to the Rand.
HON. MUSABAYANA: No, he said the United States Dollar and the Zimbabwe Dollar remained pegged 1:1. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, the fundamentals for the introduction of Zimbabwe’s own currency do not exist. For Zimbabwe to even consider the economy must be producing; there must be productivity in the economy; there must be jobs - Madam Speaker, I seek protection from Hon. Matangira. I think that he is abusive and his conduct is not becoming of a Member of Parliament. I seek protection Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Matangira.
Hon. Biti you are protected, you may go ahead.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this year alone, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Zimbabwe, according to the Regional Economic Outlook issued by the IMF in April of 2019 will be minus 5.5% and that projection was made in April of 2019. Since then, we have had power shortages that have never been known in the history of this country. We have had power shortages that are lasting
18 hours and sometimes 20 hours, and when you do not have electricity Madam Speaker, you have no production.
So this means that our productivity levels, the growth rate this year will be around minus 8.5%. When you are not producing and when 95% of your people are in the informal sector selling vegetables, air time and tomatoes, you do not have an economy that can sustain the reintroduction of your currency…
HON. MUSABAYANA: On a point of order Madam Speaker,
Hon. Biti is misleading the House. He is saying that the growth rate will be minus 8%. Where is he getting those figures from, because this is not happening and it is not true – [AN HON. MEMBER: That is why he mentioned that it is a projection kani!] - But where is he getting those figures from? He must not be allowed to mislead the nation. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - He must tell us the source of his information so that we can verify it. You cannot just come to this august House and start throwing around figures. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, the conduct of Hon. Musabayana is very unparliamentary. I said that the IMF in its Regional Economic
Outlook published in April of 2019, and put the growth rate at minus 5.5% but at that time we did not have the huge power cuts that we have; at the time we did not have the full effect of the huge drought that is affecting our country and our country is an agricultural based economy; at the time in April 2019 we did not have the huge impact of Cyclone Idai which has affected our economy. So the projection of minus 5.5% is understated – the real projection is minus 8.5%. So without productivity, you cannot have an economy and you cannot sustain your currency.
Secondly Madam Speaker, you need exports and a positive balance in your current account. A currency, at the end of the day Madam
Speaker, is a relationship between your exports and imports. At the present moment Madam Speaker Ma’am, our imports are around US$7.9 billion and our exports that which we sell outside are around US$3 billion. So the ratio of our exports to imports is a ratio of 1:4 – put simply Madam Speaker, for every dollar that we are receiving in the form of export receipts - $4.00 are going out in the form of imports. So, when you have a deficit of 4:1 – where your current account deficit is minus 15% of GDP - you do not have an economy to sustain the reintroduction of your own currency.
I move Madam Speaker to reserves. You need foreign currency reserves in the form of either money or gold and we do not have those reserves. Madam Speaker, little Botswana across the river there has got reserves of US$9 billion. It lends money to the IMF and to the World Bank. We have absolutely no reserve, the Central Bank is absolutely broke and is insolvent for all intents and purposes.
Thirdly Madam Speaker, we need balance of payment reserves. So I have spoken of reserves – national reserves and now I am talking about a balance of payment reserves. Madam Speaker, when the Government of National Unity (GNU) collapsed in 2013, we left at the IMF reserves worth US$350 million in the form of special drawing rights that were kept at the Central Bank. Those US$350 million were just two weeks import cover, considering that our imports are US$7 billion. Madam Speaker, as I am talking to you right now, Zimbabwe has wiped off US$350 million worth of reserves. The only money that is now in that account is US$2 million just for bank charges. So without balance of payments reserves Madam Speaker – you do not have the stamina to introduce your own currency.
Of all these things that I have spoken of Madam Speaker, the most important thing that you need to introduce your currency is confidence and trust. This country is suffering from kwashiorkor of confidence and kwashiorkor of trust as no one trusts the Government, the country and the Zimbabwean Dollar that ruined people. Madam Speaker, pensioners lost their money because of the Zimbabwean Dollar and the working people of Zimbabwe lost their savings because of the Zimbabwean Dollar. So no one can ever trust the Zimbabwean Dollar, including you, yourself Madam Speaker Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] –
The Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry into pension funds which was published in March, 2017 reported that US$5.68 billion worth of insurance funds - both long term life insurance and short term were lost – US$5.68 billion. So it is not possible to expect the same Zimbabwean public to accept the introduction and we know Madam
Speaker Ma’am that the Zimbabwean public has rejected the RTGs Dollar since including the Government itself. Two weeks after the enactment of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019, Cabinet set and I am glad they are esteemed Cabinet Ministers in the House. Cabinet sat and allowed companies in Victoria Falls and hotels to charge and levy in US dollars and pay their VAT in US dollars. So Cabinet itself, the author of this misfortunate Statutory Instrument has accepted that it will not work and it cannot work – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, if you want proof that the RTGs is not working, you need to look at the inflation figures. In May 2019, before the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation was 96%.
In June of 2019, after the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation is now 175%. That is official Madam Speaker, but the ordinary person who shops in a supermarket will tell you that bread went from RTGs 1.20 to RTGs7.20. So if you do the mathematics just on bread and mazoe alone our inflation in real terms is 700%. Even accepting the ZIMSTATS figure, the official definition of hyper inflation is where you have month on month inflation moving by a fact of 80%. If you subtract 96 from 175, it is over 80%. So, we are already in a hyper-inflationary environment. Our inflation at the present moment Madam Speaker, is second only to Venezuela...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, you are only left
with five minutes.
HON. BITI: Only to Venezuela as I am speaking to you but it is not acceptable for a people and a country that went through the days of hyperinflation in 2006 to 2009. When our inflation got to 500 billion percent, it is...
HON. TSUNGA: On a point of order Madam Speaker Sir.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. TSUNGA: I propose extension of time, this is important.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We cannot extend before it
expires.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, we are the first country in the history of countries to have two bouts of hyperinflation in less than 10 years. We had a hyperinflation in 2007/8, we are now in 2019 but we have had hyperinflation. This is the first country that has gone through two cataleptic catalysm breakdown implosions in a country that has not gone to war. Zimbabwe has not been to war in the last 10 years but it is reflecting features of a country that went to war. In fact, the only country in the history of mankind that went through these implosions is Germany through the two World Wars. So, Zimbabwe which has not gone to war is reflecting signs of Germany which went through two World Wars, it is unbelievable Madam Speaker. It is a sign of failure, deep failure, structural failure, unbelievable failure and unpardonable failure.
Madam Speaker, there are myths that are being peddled by Hon.
Musabayana about why the US dollar failed in Zimbabwe. When the Government of National Unity collapsed in 2013, we left physical cash amounting to US$6.5 billion. You recall Madam Speaker, that any Zimbabwean was free to go to an automated teller machine to get cash; so that money was there physically in Zimbabwe. A problem happened and that problem was the Minister of Finance in the form of Minister Hon. Patrick Chinamasa who unleashed an expansionary fiscal policy, who could not live within his means and started doing one thing which the Government of National Unity had not done, which is budget deficits and which is deficit financing. So, the budget deficit grew; right now as I am talking to you Madam Speaker, domestic debt is over US$9 billion and this is a bi-product of Chinamasa...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti.
HON. TSUNGA: Madam Speaker, may the Hon. Member’s time
be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. MATANGIRA: I object because we also want to debate –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. T. MLISWA: You do not have anything to debate, you are just objecting for nothing, we need to be serious when we are here.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti and
there was an objection.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker... – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: I think we need to be sober minded. I think when we come to this august House and a motion of this magnitude has been moved, I think it is quite disturbing for other members who just have the propensity to just get up and say I object. Hon. Biti is quite seasoned in this area, whether you like it or not; even a lot of us have a lot to learn. I think if at all he was being abusive or insulting anyone in his debate, one could have raised a point of order to say this is wrong. I do not think we will ever build the country if we are not united in national interests. Part of this House is to debate on issues and if we disagree with one another, then allow the person to equally debate. I think we tend to also lose it because a Parliament with just one party means nothing at the end of the day. A Parliament must be seen to be a Parliament that accommodates everyone. We see people standing from nowhere. Since Hon. Matangira came in, he has been making noise and if it were me I would have been sent out already. He came in, I do not know whether he had smoked, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – This is retrogressive, what he is doing is not good – [HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. He is abusive, he is saying I smoke.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, please may
you take your seat?
HON. T. MLISWA: I stand by my word that you do take marijuana. You can go for blood testing and you will be found intact, munoputa mbanje vamwe venyu muchiuya kubasa.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please
withdraw your statement?
HON. T. MLISWA: I will not withdraw because he once offered me a smoke and I refused – [Laughter.] –
HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker
Maám. The Hon. Member is quite abusive but any way, we know one another. I do not smoke. If he does smoke, he must smoke it alone not with me – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I see
myself fortunate to debate in such a crucial…
HON. KARENYI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I think in this House we must show maturity. If I remember very well, the other side of the House always ask for extension and we do not oppose. If it is the game, in other words, if you ask for any extension; whether it is an important debate or what, we will oppose because to be very honest today it is not even fair at all. We always show a sign of maturity and unity. If you ask for an extension we always give you but today you have shown that you are in the majority and you have shown it. In future, we will also object and I want it to be minuted that if you ask for an extension we will oppose – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Kashambe, please may you go ahead.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I feel
myself fortunate to also present my debate on this important matter of the nation. Taking cognisant of the fact that 70% of our Zimbabwean population stays in the rural areas and 30% stay in urban areas, the abolishment of the multi-currency is a welcome development especially in the rural areas. Why am I saying so….
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. We are not enough, there are about 40 people, it is not the required quorum for this
Parliament to sit. –[AN HON. MEMBER: Watoputa mbanje manje
Mliswa.] -
Bell rung.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at Four O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Chibagu, G.; Hon. Chikuni, E.; Hon. Chipato, A.; Hon.
Dzepasi, G.; Hon. Gwanetsa, K. K.; Hon. Kabozo, S.; Hon. Kambamura,
P.; Hon. Kapuya, F.; Hon. Karumazondo, M.T.; Hon. Kashambe, M. T.;
Hon. Kashiri, C.; Hon. Maboyi, R. M; Hon. Madziva, S.; Hon.
Maronge, C.; Hon. Masango, C.P.; Hon. Masenda, N. T.; Hon.
Mashonganyika, D.; Hon. Matangira, T. R.; Hon. Matsikenyere, N.;
Hon. Mavetera, T. A.; Hon. Mawite, D.; Hon. Mayihlome, L.; Hon.
Mguni, S.K.; Hon. Mhona, F.T.; Hon. Mkandla, M.; Hon. Mliswa, T.P.; Hon. Moyo, E.; Hon. Mpofu, A.; Hon. Mpofu, R.; Hon. Muchimwe,
P.T.; Hon. Mudarikwa, S.; Hon. Mugweni, C.T.; Hon. Munetsi, J.; Hon.
Musabayana, D.; Hon. Mushonga, P. M.; Hon. Mutomba, W.; Hon.
Ncube, Ophar, Hon. Ndiweni, D.; Hon. Ndlovu, A.; Hon. Nguluvhe, A.;
Hon. Nhambo, F.; Hon. Nhari, V.; Hon. Nkani, A.; Hon. Nkomo, M.;
Hon. Nyabani, T.; Hon. Nyere, C.; Hon. Paradza, K.; Hon. Rungani, A.;
Hon. Saizi, T.; Hon. Seremwe, B.; Hon. Shava, J.; Hon. Shirichena, E.; Hon. Shongedza, E.; Hon. Singo, L.; Hon. Sithole Josiah; Hon. Sithole, S.; Hon. Svuure, D.; Hon. Taruvinga, F.; Hon. Togarepi, P.; Hon.
Tungamirai, T.; Hon. Zemura, L. and Hon. Zhou, P.
Mayihlome, L.; Hon.
Mguni, S.K.; Hon. Mhona, F.T.; Hon. Mkandla, M.; Hon. Mliswa, T.P.; Hon. Moyo, E.; Hon. Mpofu, A.; Hon. Mpofu, R.; Hon. Muchimwe,
P.T.; Hon. Mudarikwa, S.; Hon. Mugweni, C.T.; Hon. Munetsi, J.; Hon.
Musabayana, D.; Hon. Mushonga, P. M.; Hon. Mutomba, W.; Hon.
Ncube, Ophar, Hon. Ndiweni, D.; Hon. Ndlovu, A.; Hon. Nguluvhe, A.;
Hon. Nhambo, F.; Hon. Nhari, V.; Hon. Nkani, A.; Hon. Nkomo, M.;
Hon. Nyabani, T.; Hon. Nyere, C.; Hon. Paradza, K.; Hon. Rungani, A.;
Hon. Saizi, T.; Hon. Seremwe, B.; Hon. Shava, J.; Hon. Shirichena, E.; Hon. Shongedza, E.; Hon. Singo, L.; Hon. Sithole Josiah; Hon. Sithole, S.; Hon. Svuure, D.; Hon. Taruvinga, F.; Hon. Togarepi, P.; Hon.
Tungamirai, T.; Hon. Zemura, L. and Hon. Zhou, P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege. I continue arming you with more information in terms of the welfare of the Members of Parliament. The first issue is, whilst some had gone to pick a $50 000 car others have been given an allowance of $55 000 and these are members of the Speaker’s Panel, Standing Rules and Orders members and Chairpersons. The question that I bring to you Madam Speaker is, if that is the correct position, I would like to know where they got the extra $5 000 from because $50 000 is what was said was the cap. Are we today not the same, are we different today?
So Madam Speaker, it is important that you also look into it. I saw a letter myself which gave others $55 000 and the majority had $50 000. – [AN HON. MEMBER: We are all Members of Parliament.] – Madam Speaker, regardless of the number of votes that you got, as long as you won you are entitled.
The second issue is - can the Administration of Parliament furnish the nation of Zimbabwe with our remuneration because people think we are getting a salary of $5 000 or $10 000. It is important that Parliament of Zimbabwe puts in the Herald what we are being given, that is $2 000 and allowances because each time we come to this House and we push for our welfare they think we are being selfish. Ministers are still being given Land Cruisers and Mercedes Benz. So, how can the austerity measures be targeted to Parliamentarians only and not the Executive yet we know for a very long time, it is the Executive that has been spending a lot of money.
Madam Speaker, I am also told there are people who had a choice to buy Isuzu vehicles from Paza Buster. I am told again that ugly head of corruption has visited our august House where people are now being told where to buy vehicles and are being told not to go to Paza Buster.
Madam Speaker, can you also look into that and find out why Paza Buster is not part of the list because other people prefer Toyota and others prefer Isuzu. It means that even those who want to marry must be given a wife at the end of the day yet you have a choice of a wife. I think it is important that we are treated like adults, we are not young children and we are constantly being treated like young children. That must stop. We have a choice of association. The Constitution itself talks about freedom of association, so whether I go and buy a vehicle from Croco Motors or Paza Buster, it is my choice. I thought Madam Speaker, I should raise these issues.
Finally, let me talk about the diplomatic passport. The President approved for every Member of Parliament to have a diplomatic passport. Who is working against the President in not taking the order from the
President? – [AN HON. MEMBER: Seva ipapo.] – The President, the Head of State has said all Members of Parliament must be given diplomatic passports. We do not have them. So, who is stopping that from happening? There are people working against the President and soon they shall be exposed.
Madam Speaker, let me move on to our welfare. We shall stop debating any other issues in Parliament until our welfare is taken care of. We are tired of passing Bills, we are tired of passing laws yet we are nothing at the end of the day. So, Madam Speaker, I thank you very much and I know Madam Speaker, as a mother you feel for us your children. I know your heart is aching, we are your children, please advance this for us. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa, I have
noted all your concerns, I am going to look into them and will give a ruling later. I want you to give me the letter which you referred to.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, the Administration of
Parliament is the one that sent that letter. I managed to see it in one of the companies; unless they say they did not write the letter, I will bring the letter. They have the letter that they wrote for $55 000. Madam
Speaker, I just managed to bump into the letter when I went to one of these car sales companies. The $55 000 was for Chairpersons, SRC,
Speakers Panel and I think Hon. Mutomba’s name was not on the list, I do not know why because he is on the Speaker’s Panel. That letter did not have Parliament letterhead. So, I do not know where it came from, if they cannot give you that letter by today, tomorrow I will produce it. I will go and ask the letter from the company that I saw it from.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is okay Hon. Mliswa. I am
going to look into the matters.
HON. MADZIMURE: I rise on a matter of privilege. Madam
Speaker, the issue of electricity has gone to a situation where it is no longer bearable. Madam Speaker, we have now experienced deaths being caused by the gas leakages because every house is now depending on gas. The price of gas is continuously going up. The industry is being switched off from 0700 hrs in the morning to 2200 hrs in the evening. Madam Speaker, this as a result diminishes any chances of economic revival.
Madam Speaker, the biggest tragedy is that there is no good reason being advanced, if it is because we cannot purchase more electricity then let it be known that we cannot. The issue of the water levels in Kariba – it is known that until our worst we have rains falling in Angola, DRC and Zambia there will not be any in-flows into the lake. So, with that in mind and it is a fact, can the Hon. Minister, I was actually going to ask for the Vice President to come and address this august House – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and inform the whole nation whether the
Government has completely failed to deal with the issue of electricity.
Madam Speaker, the Auditor-General’s reports are revealing
shocking corruption to the extent that $120 000.00 that is required to pay off our electricity debt can easily be paid off by the Government if the Government could look after the money that flows into Government. The situation is dire and people are being mugged when going to join shifts at 2200 hrs in the evening because no industry has electricity. So Madam Speaker, I ask for a high-powered Ministerial Statement because the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power Development has failed to give an understandable reason as to why we do not have electricity. It seems he is completely in the dark – he knows nothing about what is happening. So either he resigns or a high-powered Government representative comes here to explain to the nation. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – [HON. BITI: I also have a point of privilege Madam Speaker!] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me give a ruling first to that one. – [HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker.] – Hon.
Madzimure, I think that the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power
Development gave a Ministerial Statement less than three weeks ago – [AN HON. MEMBER: But no solution because things are now worse!] - You are now saying that you want a higher Office? – [HON.
MADZIMURE: Yes.] – Alright, on that one I will refer the issue to the Government Chief Whip, maybe he can convey the message on our behalf. – [HON. TOGAREPI: Maybe if he could put the message in writing for me to convey Madam Speaker?] – Hon. Madzimure, the Government Chief Whip is asking if you can put it in writing so that he may convey the message.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, I wanted clarification on whether you are saying – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa!
HON. T. MLISWA: My question was, should I put it in writing as a question or what I am saying to the Chief Whip so that is conveyed to Government?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Writing what you are saying
so that the Chief Whip will convey it to higher Offices.
HON. MADZIMURE: I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I rise once
again on a Matter of privilege and the Matter of privilege is being brought in terms of Standing Order 68.
Madam Speaker, a month ago, the Hon. Speaker made a ruling and determination on the availability of the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
The esteemed and distinguished Hon. Speaker, Adv. Jacob Mudenda,
Esquire directed that the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Sekesai Nzenza comes to this august House within two weeks from his determination to explain to this august House when she was going to present the NSSA Forensic Audit Report.
This august House has got the duty and obligation to oversee every public institution and that obligation is defined in Sections 117 and 199 of the Constitution. More specifically on public funds, Sections 298 and 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe state that this august House scrutinises every cent that comes out and goes into the State. So we ask for a determination – a ruling from your esteemed self that the Hon. Minister, tomorrow should lay before this august House, in compliance with the Hon. Speaker’s determination the much heaped NSSA forensic report. I thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your point of privilege is noted Hon. Biti. I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: If you could just make a ruling that Hon. Sekesai Nzenza presents the report tomorrow.] - A ruling was made by the Hon. Speaker, Adv. Mudenda and I am going to make a follow-up. – [HON. BITI: As Your Lordship pleases.] –
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 33 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 34 has been disposed of.
HON. MUDARIKWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUPPORT OF THE NEW ZIMBABWE CURRENCY
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker, I move the motion
standing in my name that this House –
COGNISANT of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019 issued by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development abolishing the multicurrency regime in favour of the introduction of the Zimbabwe’s own local currency, the Zimbabwe dollar with effect from 24th June, 2019;
ALSO COGNISANT of the structural distortions in the economy caused by the existence of the multi-currency regime;
DEEPLY CONCERNED that the continued use of the multicurrency regime was now a root cause of the suffering of ordinary Zimbabweans who had no easy access to the United States dollar which had emerged the dominant currency in this basket of currencies;
AWARE of the Government’s noble intentions to mitigate the suffering of the general population;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon this august House to support in earnest the new Zimbabwean currency.
HON. MUSAKWA: I second.
HON. T. MLISWA: Excuse me Madam Speaker, I do know if these seats steal but I do not know if anybody has seen my phone – an IPhone X10. Sorry the Sergeant-at-Arms has once again done his job well by keeping it. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Thank you Sergeant-at-Arms.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency system in February 2009, thereby officially discontinuing the use of the Zimbabwean dollar. Zimbabwe abandoned its local currency after it had been ravaged by hyper-inflation which topped 231million percent. The country adopted a basket of currencies among the...
HON. BITI: On a point or order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: The Hon. Member is reading, he is allowed to refer to his notes and not read.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Musabayana, you are
allowed to refer to your notes not to read.
HON. MUSABAYANA: I thought it is allowed on motions. I will take that again. Zimbabwe adopted a multi-currency regime in February 2009. This was after the Zimbabwean dollar had been ravaged by inflation. Adopting a multi-currency regime meant that there was a currency substitution where the Zimbabwean dollar was now working or operating in a basket of other currencies. This basket of other currencies included the US dollar, South African Rand, Botswana Pula, British
Pound, Japanese Yen and many other currencies, more recently the RTGs dollar and the bond notes and coins.
At the point of its introduction, the multi-currency system worked because it was meant to stabilize the economy that had been battered by inflation. In terms of curreny substitution, we are looking at a situation where a nation decides to use another currency or other currencies as a medium of exchange and this is exactly what happened in the
Zimbabwean economy. At that time the economy stabilized, there was confidence in the market because with the US dollar, the investors had more confidence and there was flow of capital investments in the economy.
It was also this time that because of the dollarization, our economy stabilized and inflation also fell to levels below 10%. So at that point, it really worked. In 2015, the Zimbabwean dollar was official demonetized at a rate of US$5 to Z$175 quadrillion Zimbabwean dollars with 15 zeroes. So the journey of the dollarization started in that year. Why am I now talking of dollarization, it is because slowly the economy was now accepting more of the US dollar and the rest of the currencies were now relegated from transaction? So, the US dollar crowded out other currencies, it out competed other currencies in the basket of currencies, including the Zimbabwean dollar.
This dollarization process if you look at it, there are other countries that also took the same path, countries like Panama in 1904, Argentina in 1991, also took the dollarization route after the economy was hard hit by hyperinflation, El Salvador in 2001, Ecuador in 2000, Brazil and Mexico also did the same in the 1990s. It is important to note that this dollarization process that Zimbabwe took was more of a default, it was not by design but by default, making the US dollar a de-facto currency.
When the dollarisation process started, there were some vices associated with that but we are also looking at a silver lining to this dollarization process. With the dollarisation of the economy, it meant more stability to the economy but it also meant that our imports, goods and services were available because it was now easier for Zimbabweans to access foreign capital. The fact that there was a US dollar it meant that the economy was stable for investors because the risk of instability associated with the depreciation of domestic currency was no longer happening because we were trading with the strongest currency. A currency that is used in some jurisdictions as a reserve currency – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The dollarized economy also meant a
fall in interest rates. We also saw the interest rates which were provided by our banks falling which was important for investors, which also saw the boost in the agriculture sector and the mining sector. However, as the dollarisation continued, we also saw the speculative behaviour of some sectors of the economy not being spared. This eliminated speculative tendencies that were synonymous with the Zimbabwean dollar era. So, the full dollarization created a positive investment sentiment to the Zimbabwean economy. The other positive thing that was associated with dollarization is that it reduced overall need of international reserves since the currency that was used was actually a currency that was used by some jurisdictions as a reserve currency. As a fiat currency, it become handy for Zimbabweans to use the US dollars.
Having said that the US dollars has its own disadvantages, the multi-currency or the substitution of domestic currency with foreign currencies meant that the Zimbabwean economy lost its monetary sovereignty and this is normally associated with loss of national sovereignty. This loss in sovereignty meant that it was now very difficult for Zimbabwe to control the money supply, because the money supply is controlled by the Reserve Bank. As a result of that, there was now way that the Reserve Bank was able to control the money supply
[HON. BITI: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Biti.
HON. BITI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. BITI: I am asking Hon. Musabayane whether we eat sovereignty.
HON. MUSABAYANE: The economy was now using the US
dollars; it was now difficult for the Minister of Finance or for the economy to run. There was no fiscal space to induce productivity in the economy. The Government was then left with no option but to issue Treasury Bills, and because in terms of credit lines and other forms of investment that can be brought from abroad - it was tight because of ZIDERA. We know what ZIDERA does, it blocks any form of investments from the international community that is destined to Zimbabwe. ZIDERA also brought credit lines that we can access as an economy, because of that ZIDERA - and we know who are the architects of ZIDERA in this august House. So it was very difficult for our economy to move forward because of ZIDERA. As such, the economy stagnated and with that stagnation the Government had to try to chip in with TBs and we saw domestic debt spiking up to around $12 billion.
The lack of monetary policy flexibility also exposed Zimbabwe to real financial shocks. This is so because we did not adopt the United States Dollar (US$) by choice. It was just a straightjacket that was imposed on Zimbabwe, so it made it very difficult for Zimbabwe to maneuver in terms of investment and meeting its social obligation. The other challenge with the US$ economy was that it meant that Zimbabwe had to import the US$, which was an advantage to the United States economy. To import the US$, Zimbabwe had to fork out extra dollars, hence millions of dollars were spend in importing US$. As you know the currency is to an economy what blood is to the body of a human being. So, you cannot survive on blood that is bought on a daily basis, it is not sustainable. This is exactly what happened to our economy where we had to buy currency to be able to do transactions in this economy.
What the Government did is they were charging dollar to dollar for the importation of the US$, yet it only costs United States 6 cents to produce a US$ note, which means the United States were making at least 95 cents per one US$ that was imported to this economy. This is why…. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: This is why you hear people supporting the continuous use of the US$ because they knew that the Zimbabwe economy was now supporting the American economy, because they were making super profit of 94 cents per US$. So we had actually became one of the cash cows of the American economy and the US Government generates about US$20 billion every year, that is from printing money that it exports to those nations that use its currency as a defacto currency.
The US$ also meant our exports were no longer competitive on the global market because the US$ is very strong and it meant that our exports were very expensive and not competitive. So we were not capable to compete fairly on the global market. Therefore, the United States economy was having an advantage in that respect. The US$ made it very difficult for this economy to issue medium to long term security papers to the productive sector, because it was also denominated in a foreign currency which we did not have a reserve for. In other words the Central Bank lost its role as the lender of last resort to the banking system. When all this is said and done, the use of foreign currency instead of a local currency damaged the nation’s sense of pride, because local currency is a symbol of a Sovereignty State. We all know that when it happened we did not have enough reserves in our coffers in terms of gold.
Now I come back to the Zimbabwe scenario, the serious challenges that obtained because we were operating in a dollarised economy.
Slowly, we saw the RTGs and the Bond note losing traction to the US$ and we saw a widening gap between the declared 1 to 1 exchange rate by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and what was obtaining on the market – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
please may you lower your voices.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We ended up with a situation where we
had two economies in one nation, where we had those people who had access to the foreign currency paying less than those who did not have access to foreign currency. Also, the US$ failed as a medium exchange, why, because a medium exchange should be readily available to those people who want to use it, but this did not happen because the forex was only available to those people who were around border towns and those in cities but for the rural communities they did not get access to the US$ and they were not able to trade freely in the day-to-day running of their lives. This became a serious challenge to our citizens.
It also happened that the bigger cities were also paying a premium because there was huge competition for the US$ for those who wanted to import goods and services. So it disadvantaged certain sectors of the economy, thus creating serious underlying distortions in our economy. We saw urban centres being invaded by illegal foreign currency traders as the US$ and Bond note became commoditised, when we say a currency is now being commoditised, we mean it is no longer just a store of value or medium of exchange, but people are actually using it as merchandise. They are actually buying or sell the currency which is not good for the fundamentals of the economy.
When the saw US$ being the dominant currency - which meant economy was fast dollarising – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
may the Hon. Member be heard in silence?.
. When the economy started to be fast dollarised – the dollarisation process had reached alarming stages where we think as a nation we were crossing the Rubicon River, a point of no return. It was now going to be very difficult as an economy to go back to de-dollarise because every sector was becoming dollarised and because of that, we had certain sectors of the economies now demanding payments of their salaries in US$. This was going to pose a serious challenge to the Government because the Government had very limited sources of foreign currency, because our economy is 90% informal. With 90% in the informal economy, only 10% of the economy will be paying taxes into the economy and this money which was being paid was in local currency, thus making it almost difficult if not impossible for the Government to pay civil servants. The civil servants, even the private sector were justifying, saying that because all the goods and services that they could access in the market were now marked in US$.
They were not only rated in US$ but the sellers of these merchandise were actually demanding the US$ in every transaction that was taking place and because of that the Ministry of Finance and Government saw it fit to take calculated steps to de-dollarise the economy. The de-dollarisation process was not an immediate response but it was a well calculated and formulated process which is enshrined in the Transitional Stabilisation Programme. This is why we saw the Minister of Finance talking about currency reforms in October last year and in January this year. We saw all these things happening because the Government was well organised in executing a currency reform. We need to advise those people who were misinformed thinking that it was a knee jerk response – no it was not. It was a well calculated and planned process of currency reform.
The President also highlighted it in some of his speeches as he psychologically prepared the nation to accept the coming in of a new currency. This is why we saw the currency reform eventually taking shape.
What does it mean for Zimbabwe to have a Zimbabwean dollar? Having a Zimbabwean dollar is a boom for Zimbabweans because it meant that all those legacy debts which were at one to one as announced by the Minister in April meant that they will be able to clear their balances using the US dollar. The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also mean that the Zimbabweans or investors in Zimbabwe are now able to access capital easily and banks will be able to have the Zimbabwean dollar because the US dollar was very illusive and it was difficult to access – [HON. SIKHALA: Is it still available?] - The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: The re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar also means that the Zimbabwean exports are now competitive on the international market because the US dollar was too expensive. The US dollar is difficult to access, it is used as a store of value and it is commoditised, making it difficult to use as a currency for any nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is also important to note that other nations besides Zimbabwe have actually moved away from the US dollar. If we look at the global scenario, China, Russia, India and Turkey are moving away from the US dollar. It is no longer sustainable as a currency. It is being dethroned as a defacto currency of the world.
Why? Because all producers were cheated by Henry Kissinger to believe that they should sell all their oil in US dollars but this has since changed because the Chinese have negotiated with the Russians and they have agreed that they are now pegging the oil in the Russian currency. The Chinese have also taken bold steps to move away from the US petrol dollar to the Yuan. This shows that the US dollar has lost traction as a defacto international currency.
The US dollar is also overrated because it has no backing whatsoever. It does not have reserves to back it. It is just mere confidence. If you look at the USA as we speak, they are in huge debts that they owe China and Japan. Because of that, it means that their economy is no longer sustainable going forward – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – As Zimbabweans, we took the correct decision to move away from the US dollar. China has also taken bold steps to make sure that internationally, its currency is being accepted as a medium of exchange. This means that the US dollar is no longer a strong currency as it was. Like I said, other countries are also moving away from the US dollar. So it was wise for our Government to introduce S.I. 142 of 2019.
With the introduction of the US dollar, we have also seen our banks benefiting from the 50% interest that has been introduced because before that, what was now happening was that people were borrowing from the bank or those people bent on speculation were borrowing from the bank; take the money to the parallel market, exchange the money, burn it and go back to pay the loans. This was causing inflation and instability into the economy but this gap has been closed by the introduction of the 50% interest on loans. This has also helped to save the country from receding into recession. We are happy that the Government introduced the Zimbabwean dollar.
Introducing a Zimbabwean dollar may not be enough but we want the Government to add on a number of policy measures so that they will stabilise the economy. We propose that the Government accelerates the re-engagement process so that we promote investment into this country. When we talk of re-engagement, we are talking of re-engagement at all levels of the state. We are looking at all Government departments – they must be engaged in the re-engagement process with the rest of the world. When we say re-engagement, we mean true re-engagement where the Government rank and file is singing the same hymn from the same hymn book and if possible singing with the same tune. We do not want a situation where the President goes it alone when it comes to reengagement -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Order!
HON. MUSABAYANA: We also propose that the Government
deals with corruption ruthlessly and perpetrators of illicit financial flows because this will create uncertainty in the economy and also discourages foreign direct investment. For us to improve our rankings on the global market, we need to deal with corruption ruthlessly. Remember, corruption is white collar crime and it is very complex and intricate. It is important that those who deal with corruption are trained and coached on how to profile corruption and how to execute the whole process.
While we applaud the Government’s austerity measures, I think at this stage our economy now requires inducement policies that will ensure that we re-energise the demand for our economy. If this does not happen, we are fearful that sooner or later, a recession cycle will set in and this will cripple our economy as we do not want that to happen.
We also realise that the reason why the economy is slowly dollarised or ended up being dollarised was because of speculative behaviour and the attempt by citizens to try and hedge their interest by keeping all their savings in foreign currency. To ensure that this does not happen again, we are also proposing that as an economy we should start creating our own reserves where we can use our diamonds, platinum and our gold as reserves so that our Zimbabwean dollar will also be regarded as strong currency and that we move away slowly from the fiat currency obtaining in the economy.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, while we applaud the Minister’s move to de-dollarise the economy, we also need to deal with the liquidity crisis that is currently happening in the economy. Workers and pensioners are spending valuable time which should be assigned to productivity to queuing at banking halls. This should come to an end and increase our productivity. The use of plastic money should be as a matter of choice or convenience not the only alternative. If there is shortage of cash in the economy, we find people trading the bank note. At the moment, people have commoditised the bond note, they are selling cash and this is also creating corruption in our economy because businesses that deal with cash are able to sell cash at a premium creating distortions in our markets. So, we implore the Hon. Minister to ensure that he closes the liquidity gap that is in the market.
We also want to encourage the Hon. Minister to pursue a strategy which brings back confidence into our domestic currency. We know confidence is anchored with consistency and confidence is also anchored on political stability and good corporate governance. We therefore urge the Minister to ensure that we have policies that inspire confidence in the eyes of domestic and foreign players.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, we also propose that we have a currency board to restore confidence in the financial sector. The currency board will make sure that there is proper allocation of currency to the needy sectors of the economy, mining, agriculture and other capital projects. We also want to ensure that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) is independent in its operations. The independence of the RBZ will also inspire confidence with our monetary sector.
If we do not have a properly constituted board that manages currency in our economy, we will also end up with issues to do with corruption where certain people are given preference or jump queues when they approach the bank. So, we want a situation where there is proper allocation of the available foreign currency to the needy sectors of the economy. To underpin why I think the Government took a correct and bold stance in going back to the Zimbabwean dollar; we have many other nations in the world which have taken the same route; Sierra
Leone’s Government in 2015 expressed the desire to de-dollarise the economy and the Central Bank Governor of that country, Dr. Kaifala Marah took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy. There was a presidential appeal where they chose to de-dollarise the economy. Mexico and Pakistan also implemented a more rapid and forced dedollarisation and it was sustainable. However, this comes at a cost because of macro-economic imbalances that happened and there was huge capital flight and less financial intermediation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in the 70s, Israel also de-dollarised their economy. Russia is also in the process of doing away with the US dollar, so we are not alone in this journey of de-dollarisation. Madam
Speaker, Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Poland’s economic situation deteriorated in the 80s when they had a monthly inflation which was above 55%. Because of that, they also took bold steps to de-dollarise the economy which worked very well for that economy. Bolivia did the same and countries like Peru, so the process of de-dollarisation is one which is important for a developing nation.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe for coming up with a Monetary Policy Statement that is propoor – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaah, Aaah!] – because we know there are very few people in this nation who were accessing the US$. The US$ was only accessible to those people who were doing direct exports and to those who had connections to certain sectors of the economy. The decision by the Government to de-dollarise the economy came at the correct time – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. MUSABAYANA: The decision by the Government to de-
dollarise the economy came at the correct time and will help us on reentry into the global market. The President is forever talking about Zimbabwe being open for business. Zimbabwe cannot be open for business without its own currency, when it cannot control its monetary policy or when our people have no access to currency. Madam Speaker
Ma’am, there are people who were saying the fundamentals are not right. I agree with those people because the currency issue is one of the key fundamentals that have to be dealt with once and for all because we cannot have economic fundamentals being right when we do not have a currency. When we look at economic fundamentals, we have to look at systems approach – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order.
HON. MUSABAYANA: We look at a systems approach and a holistic approach to the economy. When we do not have a currency, there are no fundamentals that can be corrected. I want to thank the Government for correcting the first important fundamental, which is the currency issue that has been resolved. So, I thank the Government for this bold move that came at the right time and should not have come at any other time. This is the right time that the Government has made this policy move – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa!
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to
encourage all patriotic Zimbabweans to support the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar because ZIDERA is an albatross. So to counter it is only easy when we have our own currency because we will have space to maneuver as a Government. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. A. MPOFU: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to add my
voice to Hon. Musabayana’s motion. Hon. Speaker, it is important right from the beginning to emphasize that the move to – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. A. MPOFU: I would like to say from the beginning that the introduction of the mono-currency was welcomed by the wider population of Zimbabwe. The introduction of the mono-currency was good news especially to the majority of our population who had no access to the USD. It is also important to point out that as the Hon. Member who spoke before me, the mover of this motion has just indicated, there was need for stability in the economy. There was need to fight corruption because the USD had itself become a very important vehicle in the corrosive, corruptive practice that was now prevalent in the society.
Madam Speaker, the effort to fight corruption is very pivotal to His
Excellency and his Government’s effort to attract foreign direct investment into this country. The only measure therefore, that the Government takes in that direction should be welcomed by Hon. Members. I do respect that the points that have been raised by the mover of this motion have been emphatic enough to justify the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019. I thank you.
HON. BITI: I want to thank you very much for recognizing me in this very important debate. The debate before this House is extremely an important one. It relates to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar which was officially pronounced by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development on the 24th June, 2019, in the form of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019.
I want to make it very clear that this side of the House is firmly and vehemently opposed to the re-introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar. We are firmly and vehemently opposed to…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, speak on your
behalf not for the side.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar, the attempt to de-dollarise the Zimbabwean economy is a disaster that will not work. It will not work because the fundamentals for the introduction of our own currency simply do not
exist.
A currency is not a choice that you make like you are changing your clothes. It is not a choice that you make between wearing a green, red dress or a red tie – it is not that choice. It is a choice that is a byproduct of the existence of both political, economic and legal fundamentals. We submit to the Hon. Speaker that the political economy of Zimbabwe did not support the introduction of the Zimbabwean dollar on the 24th June, 2019.
Madam Speaker, when the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced in
2009, it was not the wisdom of us who were at the Ministry of Finance.
It was not the wisdom of any Government bureaucrat, the Zimbabwean dollar was introduced by the market, it was introduced by the people of Zimbabwe who were tired and who were liberating themselves from abuse by the existing Zimbabwean dollar then known as the bearer cheque at the time.
You will recall that in 2006 to 2009, the Zimbabwean economy suffered a crisis of over accumulation, one - in respect of which there was too much money chasing too few goods. You will also recall that all of us were trillionaires and billionaires who could not even buy two bottles of soda, billionaires who could not buy two bottles of Coca-cola. The last time that the RBZ Governor printed our money, it was a hundred thousand trillion dollar note, but that hundred thousand trillion dollar note could not buy you a bicycle.
Madam Speaker, you will remember that when the bearer cheque, the hundred thousand trillion dollar cheque was introduced in September of 2008, 26 zeros had been removed from hundred thousand trillion dollars. If you add 26 zeros, the redenominated currency, to hundred thousand trillion you will have a creature that has no name in the English language. So the Zimbabwean dollar was never displaced voluntarily, it was displaced involuntarily because the market recognised that the Zimbabwean dollar had become an instrument of arbitrage.
Madam Speaker, the Zimbabwean dollar was caught in flagrante, with its pants down and once that happenes, there is nowhere in the world where a country that involuntarily dollarizes can dollarize again. Currencies are a function of confidence, currencies are a function of
trust.
In 2008, the people of Zimbabwe lost confidence and trust in the Zimbabwean Dollar and that trust will never come back again – it does not matter what you do. This is why in the history of mankind - this is fact and pure economics Madam Speaker. In the history of mankind, there is no country in the world except Panama in 1904 that dollarized and was able to de-dollarize, because it is a function of confidence. The countries that Hon. Musabayana referred to - that have managed to introduce their own currency – it is an artificial introduction because their new domestic currencies remain pegged or anchored to the United States dollar. If you go to the Rand Monetary Union, Madam Speaker
Ma’am, the Rand is the currency of use but you will find that eSwathini and Namibia also have their own currencies, but those currencies are pegged to the Rand. So under those circumstances, you cannot speak of de-dollarization when the local currency remained pegged 1:1 to the United States dollar.
So the submission that I am making is that it is not possible to dedollarize. It is not possible to adopt your own currency once economic circumstances have forced you to abandon your currency. So the fundamentals that were a prerequisite to the introduction …
HON. MUSABAYANA: Madam Speaker on a Point of Order!
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Biti is misleading this House because he is saying that the United States dollar remained pegged at 1:1 to the
Zimbabwe Dollar which is not what is happening in our markets … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - No, that is what he said.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon.
Musabayana, he was referring to the Rand.
HON. MUSABAYANA: No, he said the United States Dollar and the Zimbabwe Dollar remained pegged 1:1. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, the fundamentals for the introduction of Zimbabwe’s own currency do not exist. For Zimbabwe to even consider the economy must be producing; there must be productivity in the economy; there must be jobs - Madam Speaker, I seek protection from Hon. Matangira. I think that he is abusive and his conduct is not becoming of a Member of Parliament. I seek protection Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Matangira.
Hon. Biti you are protected, you may go ahead.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this year alone, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Zimbabwe, according to the Regional Economic Outlook issued by the IMF in April of 2019 will be minus 5.5% and that projection was made in April of 2019. Since then, we have had power shortages that have never been known in the history of this country. We have had power shortages that are lasting
18 hours and sometimes 20 hours, and when you do not have electricity Madam Speaker, you have no production.
So this means that our productivity levels, the growth rate this year will be around minus 8.5%. When you are not producing and when 95% of your people are in the informal sector selling vegetables, air time and tomatoes, you do not have an economy that can sustain the reintroduction of your currency…
HON. MUSABAYANA: On a point of order Madam Speaker,
Hon. Biti is misleading the House. He is saying that the growth rate will be minus 8%. Where is he getting those figures from, because this is not happening and it is not true – [AN HON. MEMBER: That is why he mentioned that it is a projection kani!] - But where is he getting those figures from? He must not be allowed to mislead the nation. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - He must tell us the source of his information so that we can verify it. You cannot just come to this august House and start throwing around figures. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, the conduct of Hon. Musabayana is very unparliamentary. I said that the IMF in its Regional Economic
Outlook published in April of 2019, and put the growth rate at minus 5.5% but at that time we did not have the huge power cuts that we have; at the time we did not have the full effect of the huge drought that is affecting our country and our country is an agricultural based economy; at the time in April 2019 we did not have the huge impact of Cyclone Idai which has affected our economy. So the projection of minus 5.5% is understated – the real projection is minus 8.5%. So without productivity, you cannot have an economy and you cannot sustain your currency.
Secondly Madam Speaker, you need exports and a positive balance in your current account. A currency, at the end of the day Madam
Speaker, is a relationship between your exports and imports. At the present moment Madam Speaker Ma’am, our imports are around US$7.9 billion and our exports that which we sell outside are around US$3 billion. So the ratio of our exports to imports is a ratio of 1:4 – put simply Madam Speaker, for every dollar that we are receiving in the form of export receipts - $4.00 are going out in the form of imports. So, when you have a deficit of 4:1 – where your current account deficit is minus 15% of GDP - you do not have an economy to sustain the reintroduction of your own currency.
I move Madam Speaker to reserves. You need foreign currency reserves in the form of either money or gold and we do not have those reserves. Madam Speaker, little Botswana across the river there has got reserves of US$9 billion. It lends money to the IMF and to the World Bank. We have absolutely no reserve, the Central Bank is absolutely broke and is insolvent for all intents and purposes.
Thirdly Madam Speaker, we need balance of payment reserves. So I have spoken of reserves – national reserves and now I am talking about a balance of payment reserves. Madam Speaker, when the Government of National Unity (GNU) collapsed in 2013, we left at the IMF reserves worth US$350 million in the form of special drawing rights that were kept at the Central Bank. Those US$350 million were just two weeks import cover, considering that our imports are US$7 billion. Madam Speaker, as I am talking to you right now, Zimbabwe has wiped off US$350 million worth of reserves. The only money that is now in that account is US$2 million just for bank charges. So without balance of payments reserves Madam Speaker – you do not have the stamina to introduce your own currency.
Of all these things that I have spoken of Madam Speaker, the most important thing that you need to introduce your currency is confidence and trust. This country is suffering from kwashiorkor of confidence and kwashiorkor of trust as no one trusts the Government, the country and the Zimbabwean Dollar that ruined people. Madam Speaker, pensioners lost their money because of the Zimbabwean Dollar and the working people of Zimbabwe lost their savings because of the Zimbabwean Dollar. So no one can ever trust the Zimbabwean Dollar, including you, yourself Madam Speaker Ma’am – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] –
The Justice Smith Commission of Inquiry into pension funds which was published in March, 2017 reported that US$5.68 billion worth of insurance funds - both long term life insurance and short term were lost – US$5.68 billion. So it is not possible to expect the same Zimbabwean public to accept the introduction and we know Madam
Speaker Ma’am that the Zimbabwean public has rejected the RTGs Dollar since including the Government itself. Two weeks after the enactment of Statutory Instrument 142 of 2019, Cabinet set and I am glad they are esteemed Cabinet Ministers in the House. Cabinet sat and allowed companies in Victoria Falls and hotels to charge and levy in US dollars and pay their VAT in US dollars. So Cabinet itself, the author of this misfortunate Statutory Instrument has accepted that it will not work and it cannot work – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, if you want proof that the RTGs is not working, you need to look at the inflation figures. In May 2019, before the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation was 96%.
In June of 2019, after the introduction of Statutory Instrument 142/2019, our inflation is now 175%. That is official Madam Speaker, but the ordinary person who shops in a supermarket will tell you that bread went from RTGs 1.20 to RTGs7.20. So if you do the mathematics just on bread and mazoe alone our inflation in real terms is 700%. Even accepting the ZIMSTATS figure, the official definition of hyper inflation is where you have month on month inflation moving by a fact of 80%. If you subtract 96 from 175, it is over 80%. So, we are already in a hyper-inflationary environment. Our inflation at the present moment Madam Speaker, is second only to Venezuela...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, you are only left
with five minutes.
HON. BITI: Only to Venezuela as I am speaking to you but it is not acceptable for a people and a country that went through the days of hyperinflation in 2006 to 2009. When our inflation got to 500 billion percent, it is...
HON. TSUNGA: On a point of order Madam Speaker Sir.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. TSUNGA: I propose extension of time, this is important.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We cannot extend before it
expires.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker, we are the first country in the history of countries to have two bouts of hyperinflation in less than 10 years. We had a hyperinflation in 2007/8, we are now in 2019 but we have had hyperinflation. This is the first country that has gone through two cataleptic catalysm breakdown implosions in a country that has not gone to war. Zimbabwe has not been to war in the last 10 years but it is reflecting features of a country that went to war. In fact, the only country in the history of mankind that went through these implosions is Germany through the two World Wars. So, Zimbabwe which has not gone to war is reflecting signs of Germany which went through two World Wars, it is unbelievable Madam Speaker. It is a sign of failure, deep failure, structural failure, unbelievable failure and unpardonable failure.
Madam Speaker, there are myths that are being peddled by Hon.
Musabayana about why the US dollar failed in Zimbabwe. When the Government of National Unity collapsed in 2013, we left physical cash amounting to US$6.5 billion. You recall Madam Speaker, that any Zimbabwean was free to go to an automated teller machine to get cash; so that money was there physically in Zimbabwe. A problem happened and that problem was the Minister of Finance in the form of Minister Hon. Patrick Chinamasa who unleashed an expansionary fiscal policy, who could not live within his means and started doing one thing which the Government of National Unity had not done, which is budget deficits and which is deficit financing. So, the budget deficit grew; right now as I am talking to you Madam Speaker, domestic debt is over US$9 billion and this is a bi-product of Chinamasa...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti.
HON. TSUNGA: Madam Speaker, may the Hon. Member’s time
be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. MATANGIRA: I object because we also want to debate –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. T. MLISWA: You do not have anything to debate, you are just objecting for nothing, we need to be serious when we are here.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon. Biti and
there was an objection.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker... – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: I think we need to be sober minded. I think when we come to this august House and a motion of this magnitude has been moved, I think it is quite disturbing for other members who just have the propensity to just get up and say I object. Hon. Biti is quite seasoned in this area, whether you like it or not; even a lot of us have a lot to learn. I think if at all he was being abusive or insulting anyone in his debate, one could have raised a point of order to say this is wrong. I do not think we will ever build the country if we are not united in national interests. Part of this House is to debate on issues and if we disagree with one another, then allow the person to equally debate. I think we tend to also lose it because a Parliament with just one party means nothing at the end of the day. A Parliament must be seen to be a Parliament that accommodates everyone. We see people standing from nowhere. Since Hon. Matangira came in, he has been making noise and if it were me I would have been sent out already. He came in, I do not know whether he had smoked, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] – This is retrogressive, what he is doing is not good – [HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. He is abusive, he is saying I smoke.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matangira, please may
you take your seat?
HON. T. MLISWA: I stand by my word that you do take marijuana. You can go for blood testing and you will be found intact, munoputa mbanje vamwe venyu muchiuya kubasa.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please
withdraw your statement?
HON. T. MLISWA: I will not withdraw because he once offered me a smoke and I refused – [Laughter.] –
HON. MATANGIRA: On a point of order Madam Speaker
Maám. The Hon. Member is quite abusive but any way, we know one another. I do not smoke. If he does smoke, he must smoke it alone not with me – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I see
myself fortunate to debate in such a crucial…
HON. KARENYI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I think in this House we must show maturity. If I remember very well, the other side of the House always ask for extension and we do not oppose. If it is the game, in other words, if you ask for any extension; whether it is an important debate or what, we will oppose because to be very honest today it is not even fair at all. We always show a sign of maturity and unity. If you ask for an extension we always give you but today you have shown that you are in the majority and you have shown it. In future, we will also object and I want it to be minuted that if you ask for an extension we will oppose – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Kashambe, please may you go ahead.
HON. KASHAMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’ám. I feel
myself fortunate to also present my debate on this important matter of the nation. Taking cognisant of the fact that 70% of our Zimbabwean population stays in the rural areas and 30% stay in urban areas, the abolishment of the multi-currency is a welcome development especially in the rural areas. Why am I saying so….
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. We are not enough, there are about 40 people, it is not the required quorum for this
Parliament to sit. –[AN HON. MEMBER: Watoputa mbanje manje
Mliswa.] -
Bell rung.
Notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at Four O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Chibagu, G.; Hon. Chikuni, E.; Hon. Chipato, A.; Hon.
Dzepasi, G.; Hon. Gwanetsa, K. K.; Hon. Kabozo, S.; Hon. Kambamura,
P.; Hon. Kapuya, F.; Hon. Karumazondo, M.T.; Hon. Kashambe, M. T.;
Hon. Kashiri, C.; Hon. Maboyi, R. M; Hon. Madziva, S.; Hon.
Maronge, C.; Hon. Masango, C.P.; Hon. Masenda, N. T.; Hon.
Mashonganyika, D.; Hon. Matangira, T. R.; Hon. Matsikenyere, N.;
Hon. Mavetera, T. A.; Hon. Mawite, D.; Hon. Mayihlome, L.; Hon.
Mguni, S.K.; Hon. Mhona, F.T.; Hon. Mkandla, M.; Hon. Mliswa, T.P.; Hon. Moyo, E.; Hon. Mpofu, A.; Hon. Mpofu, R.; Hon. Muchimwe,
P.T.; Hon. Mudarikwa, S.; Hon. Mugweni, C.T.; Hon. Munetsi, J.; Hon.
Musabayana, D.; Hon. Mushonga, P. M.; Hon. Mutomba, W.; Hon.
Ncube, Ophar, Hon. Ndiweni, D.; Hon. Ndlovu, A.; Hon. Nguluvhe, A.;
Hon. Nhambo, F.; Hon. Nhari, V.; Hon. Nkani, A.; Hon. Nkomo, M.;
Hon. Nyabani, T.; Hon. Nyere, C.; Hon. Paradza, K.; Hon. Rungani, A.;
Hon. Saizi, T.; Hon. Seremwe, B.; Hon. Shava, J.; Hon. Shirichena, E.; Hon. Shongedza, E.; Hon. Singo, L.; Hon. Sithole Josiah; Hon. Sithole, S.; Hon. Svuure, D.; Hon. Taruvinga, F.; Hon. Togarepi, P.; Hon.
Tungamirai, T.; Hon. Zemura, L. and Hon. Zhou, P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 18th July, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
PETITION RECEIVED
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to advise the House that on the 25th of June 2019, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a Petition from the Zimbabwe Aids Network on the failure by
Government to contribute US$6 million to the Global Fund in order to access US$400 million from the International Health Fund to buy Antiretro viral drugs. The petition has been referred to the Joint Thematic and Portfolio Committees on HIV and AIDS and Health and Child Care respectively.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. NDUNA: I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 6 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. MADIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. DR. LABODE: On a point of privilege Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, I once raised a point of privilege on the issue of the Global Fund, the one you have just announced - the petition. Does my point of privilege where the Speaker ruled that the Minister would come to Parliament and answer gets overruled by the petition now. This issue has been raised here twice and the Minister gave a response last time that he will respond and pay. Those were his words. He said he will pay and right now we are about to lose almost US$400 million because we cannot pay US$6 million – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order. May the Leader of
the House please help us to respond to the issue.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I did not quite
follow what she said.
HON. DR. LABODE: Madam Speaker, twice I have raised on a point of privilege that Zimbabwe committed itself to be part of the Global Fund. The Global Fund is a fund of many international countries that are bringing funds together. Right now, we are lobbying to get $20 billion to control HIV, Malaria and TB. From that US$20 billion, our share as Zimbabwe has been US$ 400 million. One of the things we committed ourselves to do is that we will meet our own counterpart in order for us to be able to get that US$400 million. We will produce our own share as a nation to show political commitment towards the fund, which was US$6 million. I raised it in this House and the Speaker instructed the Minister to come and respond. The Minister of Finance came and he said he would pay; and he said he had paid. Here we are now; we are desperate. I know there is a letter which has been written to the Speaker from the National Aids Council requesting something to be done as a matter of urgency. We have over two million people on HIV drugs and we do not spend not even one cent as a nation on HIV drugs, tinongomapiwa. We really need desperately to do something, US$6 million ngaitsvagiwe.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I acknowledge what Hon. Labode is saying. On Tuesday, I had an occasion of speaking to the Minister of Finance with my counterpart, the Minister of Health and he indicated that he had paid US$2.9 million but we then indicated that it is not sufficient. What is required is to pay the US$6 million so that we can access the benefits. If we do not pay, it means that we will not be able to get the ARVs as is being alluded to by Hon. Labode. He promised that he was going to look into it and pay the amount. I will follow up and advise accordingly. Thank you.
FIRST READING
MONEY LAUNDERING AND PROCEEDS OF CRIME
AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 4, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON ZIYAMBI) presented the Money Laundering and Proceeds of Crime Amendment Bill [H.B. 4,
2019].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
FIRST READING
CORONER’S OFFICE BILL [H. B. 5, 2019]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON ZIYAMBI) presented the
Coroner’s Office Bill [H. B. 5, 2019].
Bill read the first time.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON NDUNA: I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 34 on Today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 35 has been disposed of.
HON. BITI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. KASTON RINGIRISAI
GUMBWANDA
HON. MAVENYENGWA: I move the motion standing in my
name that this House expresses its profound sorrow on the sudden and untimely death on Tuesday, 25th June 2019 of Honourable Member of
Parliament for Zaka East Constituency, Mr Kaston Ringirisai
Gumbwanda.
HON. MURAMBIWA: I second.
HON. MAVENYENGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
opportunity that you have accorded me to speak about a late Member of this august House, the late Hon. Gumbwanda. Firstly, I would like to thank the Speaker of Parliament, Clerk of Parliament and the rest of
Parliament staff for rendering assistance to the late Hon. Member. Hon.
Gumbwanda had a short illness but we also thank the hospital authorities for expediting and providing health care. We thank other Members of Parliament that we met like Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, Hon. Sithole Hon. Maronge and others.
I would like to talk about Hon. Gumbwanda who was a man of the people. The Hon. Member was committed from the days of the liberation struggle as a mujibha. The Hon. Member operated from Zaka.
At Independence Hon. Gumbwanda worked for the Government of
Zimbabwe as a teacher until he was promoted to become a headmaster.
Eventually the Hon. Member joined politics and worked under ZANU PF as a district chairperson and councillor for many years. After the death of the Hon. Member, Members of Parliament from different political parties united together and attended the late Member’s funeral and this was appreciated by the relatives of the deceased.
I would also like to thank other outstanding Members of Parliament like Hon. Shamu from Mashonaland West who contributed over $1000 towards the funeral. I would like to thank other Members of Parliament from Masvingo who united and contributed some money which was given to the late Hon. Member’s wife. The contributions amounted to $2000.
I would like to say that as Members of Parliament, we are hard workers. However, what we get at times is not equivalent to the amount of work that we give to our constituencies. When there is death in a constituency or illnesses and other challenges, the Member of
Parliament has a big responsibility. I would like to suggest that
Government should assist Members of Parliament because the late Member had no car and he was using his personal car. After his death, we do not know whether the Hon. Member’s family is going to be given any car by Parliament so that the family has something to remember him with.
I would also like to say that these Members of Parliament like
Hon. Gumbwanda and the other late Members of Parliament, namely Hon. Mguni from Mangwe, and Hon. Tsvangirayii from Glen View since their deaths we have not seen any money going to their families.
Their monies are being eroded by inflation. I would like to say that those who are responsible for the welfare of Members of Parliament should make sure that a Member of Parliament is remunerated properly.
After completing a term, a Member of Parliament should be remunerated. I remember when I travelled out of the country, a certain Member of Parliament in South Africa was saying that after serving for a term, you are given R5 million and you can retire with a substantial amount. This I believe should be done in Zimbabwe also so that Members of Parliament be cushioned after their tenure because after their tenure there is no hotel accommodation.
I would also like to say and my last issue is that, regarding
Members of Parliament’s cars, these late MPs should be given their cars and if housing stands are allocated, I would like to suggest that their families should be given these stands, because most of them were bread winners. As breadwinners, they were using their personal resources to fund their activities as Members of Parliament. Thank you Madam
Speaker Ma’am.
*HON. MURAMBIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
Let me first say good afternoon Madam Speaker. I am really worried because as Zaka we lost a father and as Zaka, looking at Hon.
Gumbwanda...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. This is a parting
motion and I would like to urge Hon. Members to listen attentively, you can laugh but also concentrate on the motion.
*HON. MURAMBIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I
was saying as Zaka we lost an icon. All Members of this august House who came to Zaka will agree with me, because there were so many people at the funeral and everyone was talking about the good deeds of Hon. Gumbwanda. We did not lose an icon as Zaka only but as the whole province and as a nation because Hon. Gumbwanda had a lot of responsibilities and positions. He worked as a councilor, as a teacher, headmaster and eventually he became an Hon. Member of this august
House representing Zaka East. We lost a hero as Zimbabwe.
Furthermore, Hon. Gumbwanda worked well with others. He was a good team player and he had formed his own club with other Hon. Members of this august House. We had formed a club together with him so that any member of the club who had an event would invite other Members and we would contribute monies towards that event. As a club, we lost our hero and now there is nothing we can do about that because his time was up and God allowed it. It is really sad that after being an Hon. Member of Parliament, he is forgotten because after passing on, noting that he was a breadwinner and he passed on without getting his allowances and before getting his car. I would like to request that those who are responsible for the welfare of Members of Parliament should look at the issue.
Let me continue saying that, Hon. Gumbwanda invited us to his constituency and we saw a lot of his ambitions/projects which were beneficiary to the constituents of Zaka East. We saw a lot of things like transformers which are in Masvingo right now and were sourced by
Hon. Gumbwanda. He had sourced for boreholes for his constituency and they were in the process of being drilled and erected in different areas. As Zaka, as Masvingo Province and as Zimbabwe, I would like to say that we lost an icon.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for allowing
me this opportunity to extend my condolences to the family of the late
Hon. Gumbwanda and also to the Parliament over the passing on of the Hon. Member. As my colleagues have indicated, Hon. Gumbwanda has left us at a time when us the so called Hon. Members who occupy this Hon. House are exposed to humiliation of the highest grade that you can see in any society. Hon. Gumbwanda passed on during the week when Hon. Members started to be turned away from local hotels and they moved from hotel to hotel for accommodation to come and discharge their national duty. Hon. Members of Parliament were being turned away because Parliament has not been meeting the expenses that they owe to local hotels.
Hon. Speaker, let me just share with you as I share these condolences the humiliation that I faced when I arrived in Harare the day before yesterday to come and attend to the sessions of Parliament. On arrival, I went to almost four local hotels and I will not mention them. I went to the first hotel and asked whether they had accommodation and because they thought that I am just a private citizen who can be able to meet their expenses on their own, they told me that accommodation was available. The moment that I indicated that I am a
Member of Parliament and that I wanted accommodation on
Parliament’s bill, Hon. Speaker, I was told to wait a little bit. The person who was attending to me at the front office went to consult someone and came back in five minutes and told me, ‘I am sorry Sir, the accommodation is full.’ I left that hotel and went to another one and when I said that I was a Parliamentarian I was told that the quota for Parliament was full, we cannot take any more Parliamentarians. I went to the other hotel until I was accommodated finally at the sixth one.
That was close to 1a.m after midnight.
Hon. Speaker, when I was being turned away from hotels, there were guests and visitors who were coming even from outside the country, foreign guests and they were hearing that a Member of Parliament was being turned away from a Zimbabwean hotel because of nonpayment of hotel bills by the Government. That is the kind of humiliation that Hon. Gumbwanda left us with. At times I wonder whether it is worth to carry the so called title of being an Hon. Member, it is quite dishonourable. In terms of the law, Parliament is the one that allocates national resources. Theoretically, Parliament is supposed to allocate resources to the three arms of Government. However, Hon. Speaker, if you look at the way that the three arms of Government are treated, you will see that there is discrimination. Parliament is treated as if it is the poorer cousin of the three arms of Government, regardless of the fact that it is empowered at law to distribute the resources of the nation.
Hon. Speaker, if you look at the Judiciary, the good part of it is that it is resident just next door to us – we are aware that the remuneration that judges get is way beyond what a Member of
Parliament can ever dream of getting. Let me say, for the avoidance of doubt, the salaries that these gentlemen and ladies are earning today as I speak, is far less than US$200. Above all duties that are stated in the Constitution, I am expected to discharge other duties of being a representative in a constituency. Hon. Speaker, the conditions under which Members of Parliament find themselves are deplorable, to say the
least.
Hon. Speaker, it is not a matter of choice, about where I should stay when I am supposed to attend Parliament. This is what is supposed to happen, that is what the Government has said, that any Member of Parliament who stays outside Harare, once they are in Harare, they are supposed to be accommodated in a hotel at Government expense, that is not our decision, it is Government policy. That is an existing policy, but the humiliation that we face before we get the accommodation – at times we are supposed to start begging managers at local hotels for us to be accommodated. I do not think that is proper Hon. Speaker.
When it comes to tools of trade; at times when Members of
Parliament ask for vehicles, it appears as if they are asking for luxury.
Hon. Speaker, I travel 2 500 kms to and from Binga to Harare every week. What that means is that, every week my vehicle is cloking a mileage of 2500 kms. Every one of us here is aware of the nature of roads that we have in the rural constituencies, for example and you expect one Ford Ranger vehicle that is purchased by an Hon. Member through whatever scheme, to last for five years when that same vehicle accumulates about 10 000 in a space of four weeks. What it means is that, that vehicle, in a year, it would have gone beyond 130 000 kilometres. Therefore, in five years, you are talking of a vehicle that would have cloked about 600 to 700 thousand kilometres. Tell me what type of a vehicle can endure that kind of a mileage Hon. Speaker – [HON. MLISWA: Land Cruiser 200series] – [Laughter] – Hon.
Speaker, most of my colleagues, including myself from the previous
Parliament no longer have vehicles, especially those based in rural areas - because the vehicles cannot endure the terrain and bad roads that we have, including the distances that we travel.
Hon. Speaker, currently, most Members of Parliament in their constituencies are foot soldiers. In fact, on a sad note, I hear that one of the things that speeded up Hon. Gumbwanda’s demise was that at one time, he rode in an open vehicle at the back facing the savages of weather from Harare all the way to Zaka. Then you expect that person to be called Honourable who rides in an open truck. Hon. Speaker, you expect everyone else to respect with dignity the institution of Parliament when the Members who sit in that Parliament are not accorded that respect by the same Government of that Parliament.
Hon. Speaker, it is very sad that our colleague Hon. Gumbwanda had to go at a time when as Parliament, we are still being treated like the poorer cousins, especially by the Executive. Look at this Hon. Speaker, as I indicated in terms of the law, it is the duty of Parliament to allocate resources of this nation. Last year, Parliament sat down and allocated in terms of the budget; my understanding of a budget is that it becomes a law. Last year, this Parliament passed a budget and budgeted for a number of things that were supposed to be done for this House but nothing so far has been disbursed to this House. The reason is because the Executive and at times, even the person who will be the Minister of Finance and Economic Development thinks that they are superior than this institution. They look down upon this institution and as a result, what kind of oversight are you going to offer to a Minister of Finance who does not respect you?
Last year we had a budget that Hon. Members would get vehicles that were worth US$80 000, Land Cruiser V8 to be specific. The reason why those vehicles were chosen is not about their comfort, but their durability and robustness in the type of terrain that we have. However, Hon. Speaker, without consultation, the Executive took a decision and vehicles were chosen, it is not about their comfort. The reasons why those vehicles were chosen is because of their durability and robustness in the type of terrains that we have. But, without consultation the
Executive took a decision on their own, we are informed through Caucuses that Members of Parliament instead of getting those vehicles they should only get vehicles that are worth US$50 000.00, but who decides on behalf of Parliament when Parliament is supposed to be an independent arm of Government that decides on its own?
The question that I am asking Hon. Speaker is why we have allowed ourselves as an institution to be treated in this manner by the Executive. I might ask you Hon. Speaker as the leadership of Parliament on why you are allowing the Executive to ill-treat this institution. Do you not see Hon. Speaker that with that kind of ill-treatment that we are getting, it means that our oversight role is being compromised by those decisions that are being taken by the Executive?
Hon. Speaker, as I pay homage to my colleague that passed on, I say to this House, it is time that Parliament stands up. It is high time that Parliament says the law says this. It is high time we stand up against the bully behavior of the Executive. The Executive should not act as if it is a superior brother, a super brother to the other arms of the Government. I believe that the three arms of Government should respect each other and they should not interfere into the operations of the other like the
Executive is currently doing to us. It is my view that if we want to strengthen our institutions and democracy, it is high time we say no to this level of undermining that is coming from the Executive. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. MUSIKAVANHU: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving
me an opportunity to add my voice of condolence to a very dear colleague. Hon. Gumbwanda was a classical example of the term that says steal waters run deep. I remember clearly when we initially went over the initial process of selecting candidates within ZANU PF; I had the privilege of being housed in the same hotel room with Hon. Gumbwanda after His Excellency, President Mnangagwa had called us for a reconciliation talk amongst the candidates who had aspired to represent our party.
I remember clearly that night Hon. Gumbwanda took me as a son and at most as a young brother and in his soft spoken manner, he took me through the values of representing those who may not have a voice to do so. I will forever remember him for that. As if by coincidence, I also had a privilege of sharing this very seat with Hon. Gumbwanda. We
used to sit here together and him being older than me, he would make a point of ensuring that he would reserve a seat for me if I came after him and that taught me a very important message about humility.
Hon. Gumbwanda would never raise his voice when he was communicating. I want to believe that his modus operandi was at the centre of drawing all of us from the two main parties to be at his funeral. When we were in Zaka East on that day, the comradeship that we had across the aisle, is what I yearn for us to continue having as we represent those who sent us to Parliament. I would want to believe that if Hon. Gumbwanda were to be given an opportunity to rise back and spend a minute with us, he would advocate that we dwell more on looking for areas of commonality for the benefit of building our country.
I want to take this opportunity to extend my appreciation to Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga. I remember clearly when Hon. Gumbwanda passed away, we were there with some colleagues waiting to see him, not knowing that he had already departed this earth. I was struck by the passion that Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga showed because she was there as a Chairperson to the Committee that Hon. Gumbwanda belonged. I want to salute you Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga for demonstrating that capacity as a Chairperson to embrace and be there, notwithstanding our political ideological differences because at the end of the day, we are all Zimbabweans.
Let me take this opportunity as well to extend my sincere gratitude to Hon. Mavenyengwa, my colleague from Masvingo Province. He took the lead in coordinating us in rallying behind the whole team and that Hon. Mavenyengwa, may the good Lord bless you abundantly. You taught us what it means to be there for the colleagues that we work with. Sure enough, I want to believe that we all agree that Masvingo did not disgrace on that occasion. It is to a large extent due to the leadership that was conveyed by Hon. Mavenyengwa.
May I also take this opportunity to be on record to appreciate the effort made by Hon. Matuke for moving the motion within the internal system of our party to recognise the work that Hon. Gumbwanda carried out towards the liberation of our country leading to him being accorded the position of provincial hero status? I want to thank Hon. Matuke for taking that step. I also want to thank our Provincial Resident Minister Hon. Chadzamira for delivering a eurology that spoke volumes about the man that we were burying on that day.
I was sitting with colleagues from ZANU PF and from MDC and they were all clapping hands in unison, forgetting about our party differences. Thank you Hon. Chadzamira, even though you are not in the House today. You demonstrated what leadership means at provincial level. Hon. Speaker Maa’m, let me also take this opportunity, having expressed the appreciation the man that Hon. Gumbwanda was and the efforts made by the colleagues that I have mentioned that the sad thing about what we tend to do is that we have special days like today and once that day is gone, we tend to forget.
I would like to recommend seriously that we have within this House a level of appreciation of those who depart on duty where we have a record of posterity. A book for example that can be referred to by future Parliaments when they are sitting in the lobby there to say there was Hon. Java.Tsvangirayi, Hon.Mguni, Hon. Gumbwanda and other Hon. Members who have gone by and I hope in the process of reading from such a book, we will be able to draw lessons and inspirations on what they would have done for our country. I do not think it will take much from this august House. If we take a collective position, notwithstanding the contributions that the families may have, to have possibly the development of a standard tombstone that demonstrates clearly that here lies a Member of Parliament who served his country. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you very much for affording me this
opportunity to once again contribute to this motion of a fallen hero, the late Hon. Gumbwanda. Let me say that it has become a way of life now that every month there is a Member of Parliament who we debate on. What is important now is to debate on the circumstances that led to the death of Members of Parliament. The source of the death is what we want to talk about.
Madam Speaker, you are aware of the Welfare Committee that represents Parliamentarians. I will call a spade a spade and say they are absolutely useless. The Welfare Committee that represents Members of
Parliament is useless. It has failed to discharge its duties…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I cannot allow
you to use that word – useless. Please may you withdraw it?
HON. T. MLISWA: I shall withdraw the word useless and say
they are dysfunctional. They are totally not functional at all because we can blame the Government but Parliament is an independent body. It is one of the three pillars of the State. Many a times the Speaker has attacked us for not contributing to the Budget. For the first time we contributed to the Budget according to what Parliament wanted and even surpassed that. We took into consideration the welfare of Members of Parliament from salaries. The salaries have not been reviewed. We took into consideration the allowances, they have not been reviewed. We even went a step further to also accommodate the staff of Parliament.
We spoke about the human resource which was less.
Hon. Members in this House, I want to take a minute to think. Parliament staff has been increased and nothing in our favour has been done. The clerks were hired but nothing was done for the Members of Parliament yet we are the ones who stood in this Parliament and moved the motion, contributed to the debate so that it is second in voting. It was never second. So you have got one arm of Parliament which is staff which is being taken care of and you have got the other arm of Members of Parliament which is not being taken care of. You are now creating a rift and a division. This is why I am saying what is the role of the Welfare Committee in this Parliament. The Welfare Committee is a Committee which is supposed to stand for Members of Parliament.
I have decided to self impose myself as the chairman of the Welfare Committee of this Parliament because I do not belong to any party. These Members are constantly whipped. At times when they are whipped, they forget that they have responsibilities which require money and not whipping. You hear leaders from both sides telling them you cannot take two cars, what will the public say. I faced the public attack on my own when I raised the $80 000 and I defended you. I was not doing it because I needed a car. I myself am comfortable and I have always driven Land Cruisers and I can afford any car but it was the office of the Member of Parliament I was fighting for and not the individual. The office of the Member of Parliament must be given the dignity and integrity it deserves for tomorrow and not for today. This
Parliament must make it clear that if you are to be said to be Member of Parliament that should change the office of Parliament. Let us not be in a career where no one wants to be there and say these are fools. We are seen as fools in this country yet we are there to deal with national issues. It is important that the office of the Member of Parliament is respected. You are hearing in this House – Hon P. D. Sibanda contributed to the fact that Members of Parliament cannot even access accommodation. They are seen having to loiter around in town. The reason why I equally move that the Land Cruisers V8 must be the car, it is the only car which is comfortable if you want to sleep in if they decide to sleep in there because there is no accommodation out there. You have a situation where Members of Parliament are constantly travelling and there must be a time where they rest.
I remember with my dear brother and colleague Hon. Nduna when he was the Chairman of the Committee on Mines and we decided to drive in his car, a Land Cruiser; it was a smooth ride. We drove for 12 hours nonstop. He had no driver because the car itself was comfortable. We arrived on time and did things on time. When we had to rest, we would rest. It is the comfort that makes you discharge your duties professionally, not the discomfort.
We had Members of Parliament addressing their constituency coming to Parliament, no wonder why most of them are asleep half of the time because of the cars which are not comfortable. We are told that we are sleeping. We are not sleeping on duty. They are sleeping because the car which they are driving is not a comfortable car. You have never seen a Minister asleep in this Parliament. Today we are talking about a situation where the Ministers are being given L200 series yet we are supposed to have oversight. How can you catch a thief when you are on a bicycle and a thief is in a Mercedes Benz? We are the ones who are supposed to be in the Mercedes Benz to catch the thief on the bike but it is the reverse.
We must understand that the allowances which are given to us and the Budget is passed are sacrosanct because you cannot reverse that. It is important that the Executive respects any ruling and Budget passed in this Parliament. In terms of allowances which Members of Parliament are supposed to get, if you calculate what it means today, it is nothing. We are always paid when there is inflation. I have never known since I have been in Parliament where we were paid when there was no inflation. In the last session, our allowances came when there was inflation. It is as if that the Government pushes for inflation to reward
Members of Parliament. We cannot allow a situation like that because Hon Gumbwanda and others who are late were borrowing money based on the allowances and what they have been promised by the Budget. We go and borrow because we know that we will be getting so much money because the Budget has been passed. And now they leave so much debt.
There are people who went and borrowed money because they were told that they would get a car worth $80000 and suddenly one makes a decision that the cars have gone to $50000. What does it make of the National Budget? What does it make of everything that we do here? If we did not realise that we are pawns, we are just being used to rubber stamp things for a few people who are benefiting and yet we are told that we are not working. How can you send a soldier to war without ammunition? We absolutely do not have ammunition. No wonder why you see that every election, 80% of Members of Parliament are out because one guy who was a korokoza makes money and starts to campaign and they lose and not because they cannot perform to war without ammunition. We absolutely have no ammunition, no wonder why you see that in every election, 80% of the Members of Parliament are out because one guy who was a korokoza makes money and starts to campaign with the money and they lose, not because they cannot perform. It is because they do not have the money to get there.
On a sad note, I hear and applaud the Members of Parliament who are going to bury others but the reason why others cannot go is because they cannot afford, not because they do not want. They have no fuel and they have no money. Hon. Shamu must be commended, but you know that he is also a businessman and not many Members of Parliament are business people. He can afford a thousand but none of the Members of Parliament with their salaries and allowances can donate a thousand. They would love to Mr. Speaker Sir, but it is because of the way that we are being treated and now because of that, we are divided and others who do not attend are probably said to not have a heart. However, let me speak on their behalf, it is because of the welfare of the Members of Parliament.
Now you will see ten are going to be buried and soon you will see two and you will see none, and there will be no Member of Parliament. I want to stand before you Mr. Speaker Sir and defend these men and women in here who are for this country and for national interest but they are just not respected and acknowledged because we have a system in this country that thinks that when you are a Member of Parliament, you are going to milk. What can they milk when they have no resources and no budget to even manage? It is those who are in control of budgets that are able to milk. Zimbabwe for a long time has been known to have Members of Parliament who are paupers. Why honestly in this day and era in the Second Republic are we still having that?
The reason why no one wants to be a Member of Parliament is that they look at the way we survive. You look at a Member of Parliament and there is no Member of Parliament who has ever been known to be successful after being a Member of Parliament. Hon. Mavenyengwa spoke about how in South Africa you are given R5 million after a term, it is not because of anything but it is to appreciate the role and the work that you did in representing the nation. This is something that we must learn. Members of Parliament here if you recall in the Eighth
Parliament, went to Kenya to go and study how Members of
Parliaments’ welfare was taken care of. We were told that they were given Land Cruisers, they have ten staff members and they are given $13 000 a month but why did they go there and come back yet we are not even there? It was a waste of money again. So, there is no point of even having a case study, of going to countries learning about the best practices for Members of Parliament.
Members of Parliament are not even supposed to be staying in hotels but they are supposed to be having their own apartments, because a Member of Parliament is somebody who must be respected and has their own private life too. Our lives are exposed at these hotels and we no longer have any dignity. We are seen as people who do all sorts of bad things but we are human beings. Have you ever seen judges living in hotels? They have security. The job of an MP needs security and we are not being respected.
We are said to be doing a lot of things, that we misbehave and do various things of an illicit nature, but we are human beings. We need security because no one is safe here but we are not given security and the judges are give security at their homes. We have not even asked for security. They are given drivers and they are given allowances. Why can Members of Parliament not be given an allowance to look for a house or a flat to reside in?
Not only that, Members of Parliament are not being given and this is a serious issue, and Members of Parliament you must hear this. We are said to be doing all sorts of things. It is important to respect the institution of marriage and because of that, we must be given our own accommodation where the wife is there but you are going on duty, and you are going back to see your families. How many people have time to see their families and yet we are told that we do illicit things? We must from today, Members of Parliament, push for us to have decent accommodation where you come with your wife and with your husband. You come and discharge your duties here and you go back. The working conditions are terrible. For a very long time this has been happening and nothing is being said.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we were in the bar having a drink with Hon. Murambiwa when he was discussing with other colleagues that we went there and so forth. They even said that maybe it is not good for Members of Parliament to keep going there because they are forcing him to talk and he is supposed to rest, but Members of Parliament had a heart. They went to see a person and so forth, and from nowhere a phone call comes, we were in there and we were told that he is no more.
I had just spoken to them as if I had prophesied to say when are we getting our cars? The reason why I talk about cars is that this is the only thing that a Member of Parliament has. The cars that they are driving from the party are not their cars and it is important that we are able to do
that.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me say that it is important and that the Welfare Committee introspects, self reflects to say that what is their role. If constitutionally we are meeting everything, we have the Constitution that we follow and you have the budget passed by this House and Parliament being number two but you still have the Minister of Finance and Economic Development single handedly making a decision to say that it will be $50 000. I want to ask this august House and the people who represent this august House – did that decision come from the Standing Rules and Orders Committee of this Parliament from the Welfare Committee? If it did not come from the Welfare Committee, why then are we allowing the Chief Whips to agree to what Government has said?
Who are the Chief Whips serving? If there was a vote of no confidence given in the Chief Whips, most of them would not survive this kind of behaviour. We expect the Chief Whips - and I am speaking on behalf of those who are quiet and cannot clap, because the walls and the corridors talk. The Chief Whip is sitting there and it is about time that he knows that as a Politburo Member of the ruling party, he has benefits which Members of Parliament do not have. They are given V8s and these Members do not have V8s. As such, can he allow and can he have mercy on them to enjoy a V8, just like he does. It is the only proper thing to do because a leader is one that carries his people so that they can be like him. A leader is not one that wants to be on the top and allow the others to be cycling whilst he is in a Mercedes Benz. People are watching and they will talk one day. These Members are disgruntled.
When you see them quiet, they are appreciating and they are not heckling. When they are against something, they heckle. This must be a lesson to the Chief Whip that they are talking silently. Silence is speaking. They might clap and go on the groups and say thank you chef tatenda but inside, they are saying something else. Allow us to be free and to be independent, especially on our welfare. I close Mr. Speaker by saying that the Chief Whips must go back in understanding that they are Members of Parliament and they must serve the interests of the Members of Parliament because they are sitting on a time bomb. Things are accumulating every day.
I was part of seeing how Members of ZANU PF decided to go against the former President, Robert Mugabe yet they are the very same people who said Mugabe chetechete. Let it be known to the leaders and the ruling party that you are creating a situation which will explode very soon. I share a lot with these Members. I was part of this party and I have never been in any party and I am saying that the time bomb is coming. May you respect them and may you give them what belongs to them. They spent a lot of money to be MPs. They campaigned with their money. As such, allow them to enjoy the five years with what is entitled to them. Thank you very much.
+HON. MABOYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I stood up to add my voice to the motion that was brought into this House about the late Hon. Gumbwanda. We used to stay in the same hotel at Rainbow and we respected him so much because he was a Member of Parliament who used to be a reserved man. As we speak, he passed on and we are so touched - some of us are emotional because we know that he left behind a family, wife, children and members of the constituency.
Today, as we speak, we want to put ourselves into his shoes and try to understand. Ask yourself a question that if it was you, what was your family going to do, how was your wife going to survive with the family? Our request is that, if Parliament could look at the issue regarding the Members of Parliament who pass on - Parliament should also assess what can be done and try to visit after the burial to see how the people will be surviving, especially the family of the deceased.
A Member of Parliament is more of a breadwinner in the family and Parliament should take that into consideration on how the family survives after a Member of Parliament is deceased. We are talking about allowances and cars which we have not yet received. Try to put yourselves into the shoes of the deceased person who is more of a bread- winner of the family and also the constituents who will be looking up to him or her. The family looks up to the Member of Parliament, I am putting myself into the shoes of the late Hon. Gumbwanda. If it was my family, I am asking myself a question that, where would they be today.
Hon. Gumbwanda had a family, what is Parliament doing after his death. We do not know, it is a question that we are asking, maybe there is something that they are doing. We faced the same challenge when Hon. Mguni passed on, I do not think there is anyone who visited after the burial. It is my request that Parliament should go and visit those families after that, we are Parliament workers and Members of
Parliament representing constituencies and we also have families. When we pass on, the family remains behind and they need to survive. These are the things that should be looked into.
Hon. Rwodzi having passed through the Hon. Member speaking and the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member, you
cannot pass through the Speaker and the Hon. Member speaking.
HON. MABOYI: We were pained by the sudden death of Hon.
Gumbwanda, he was a reserved person. I indicated that we used to share the same hotel and in the morning, we used to force him to talk because some of us love to talk. Hon. Gumbwanda was a reserved person but we would find a way of making him to talk. Sometimes he would find you seated and he would start talking. All that we can say is rest in peace and we say to those remaining behind, let us try to work this out to say, what happens to the family of the deceased Member. Thank you to all the Members who attended the burial for Hon. Gumbwanda, which is a very good cause. I am therefore asking that as Members of Parliament, we should see that there is something that we do after the burial. We should try, whether contributing or just visiting the family on how they will be surviving after the death of an Hon. Member.
I do not have much to say but I just want to say, we worked with
Hon. Gumbwanda very well. So many of us were able to pay their last respects but I am urging every one of us that, if one passes on, what is it that we are doing as Members who remain behind? I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir. I just thought that because my colleagues have all spoken, I thought I needed to also speak as somebody who worked with Hon. Gumbwanda. Let me thank the Hon. Member who spoke about what happened at the passing of Hon. Gumbwanda.
I just want to reiterate the same issues that people are talking about. For me Hon. Gumbwanda was a different Member of Parliament, the humility did not speak to the education and status that he had in life. Not only did some of us understand that this man had been a headmaster for a very long time and worked in very high places, but he was not one to bring an attitude about where he was coming from. In the Committee, he spoke, unlike what others are saying that he did not speak. He spoke but he would speak once in a while, when he spoke, it was always full of wisdom. He was not one who would enter the little discussions that people would come up with even as we travelled. However, if you
asked him when you are going around, for him to give either a vote of thanks or have opening remarks, it was always with such dignity.
My point that I want to raise is not about how we as Members of Parliament are treated, but I think it is about where we are as a nation. I think I raised this Hon. Speaker at one time. I was told by Hon. Members in the Committee that Hon. Gumbwanda was admitted at a particular hospital and I dashed there to see him. The image that I have and that has continued to haunt me all the time is that as I walked in this small, little room that Hon. Gumbwanda was in, he was unable to talk; there was no one in that room and yet his family and wife were seated outside. What hurts me more than anything else – I am not a doctor or a nurse but I know that basic things that happen in a hospital if you realise that your prognosis is that this person is about to die, you go to the family and tell them that things are not looking so good. These are the last moments where this man is having his last breath, please can you come and sit in the room. This is because we do not know what happens when one is dying and how scary it is, but at least what I know personally is that if I were to die, I do not want to die alone. There was no reason why Hon. Gumbwanda had to die in that small, crampy little room. There was no nurse who was running around; Hon. Speaker, I am scared of even saying out the hospital because when I go to that hospital I may be treated badly. That shows where we have gone as a country. I was asked by the Minister of Health and Child Care to write a letter about this hospital but I thought about it and said, I was there last week, if I were to get sick, these people would say this is the person who was talking about our hospital, but there was no doctor and there was no nurse. I saw him just ten minutes before he passed but there was no doctor or nurse. Normally when somebody is about to go, you can find by the movements that are in that place that this person is about to go.
He was on his own. I stood there and I was confused and I kept saying Hon. Gumbwanda, this is Priscilla. I thought I could get him to speak but he could not speak. I walked out and my typical mind of a human being, I thought perhaps if I take him out of this hospital and go elsewhere, he may get better, but I could see that his breathing was that of a last breath. I went and I phoned the Clerk of Parliament and I said I think we need to get Hon. Gumbwanda out of this place and get him to another hospital because I do not see what is happening.
The Clerk said to me that it is the relatives that have to tell me that. I said okay, I will go and try to get the relatives to talk to you. We organised the relatives and I said I cannot do it but you as relatives, go in and ask the doctor whether this is the best care that he can get so that we can see whether we can move him. This is the painful part. If I had not said to the relatives go and ask the doctor, they would have not known that Hon. Gumbwanda had gone. It was only when they spoke to the doctor that the doctor went into the room and by that time we were standing and that time I had gotten the Speaker, the wife was coming out and she was crying. Hon. Gumbwanda was gone.
I am saying if it had not been about asking them to go and ask the doctor, we could have been sitting outside and no one would have known that Hon. Gumbwanda is gone. We could have still been running around to see whether we can move them to Avenues or some ICU place. For me, it speaks to where we have sunk as a nation. How do we as a people forget that that is an Hon. Member a look at him just as a general Zimbabwean person. If this can happen to an Hon. Member, what about any other person who lives in this country – what is going on?
If our health system is gone, our own attitude as a people are gone, the only serving grace that I had and this is what I want to say to Hon. Members that let us create our own support system in here. Hon. Mguni died on his own in that hospital. Apparently somebody saw him sitting on a wheel chair and lifted his head and saw that it was Hon. Mguni because he had no identity and he had nothing. So, if you feel sick, the level we have gotten here is for you to just say to somebody next to you that you are not feeling well and please go with me because if we have this tendency of going to the clinic and say you ndirikunzwa kadzungu and you walk out, nothing happens.
I thought this is what we really need to talk about as to how we create our own system because the system does not exist anymore. We have no system and we are on our own but it also reflects where we are as a nation. Hon. Gumbwanda is gone but for me the message that became very clear is unless we set up systems ourselves, it will not work.
Lastly, when people pass on in this House, it takes a week for the advert to come out of Parliament and I just do not know why it takes that long to just say Misihairabwi has passed on and you do an advert and it comes out and we recognise that one of our own is gone. We were at the service with the Speaker just before he was taken because we were going to be travelling the next day. But, I just want to call on Hon. Members that if you have never thought that you want to be part of somebody and just be supportive, always think that it can happen to you, and for me that was the message that I got from Hon. Gumbwanda. I really want to say that may his soul may rest in peace. I thank you Hon.
Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday 23rd July, 2019.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Order of the Day Number 36 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 37 has been disposed of.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ACCOUNTS ON COMPLIANCE ISSUES FOR THE MINISTRY
OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
- BITI: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Accounts on compliance issues for the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development.
- NDUNA: I second.
- BITI:
- INTRODUCTION
- Speaker Sir, Parliament’s role is enunciated in section
119 of the Constitution, giving it power to ensure that provisions of the
Constitution are “upheld and that the State and all institutions and agencies of government at every level act constitutionally and in the national interest.”
With regards to the Public Accounts Committee, the Committee has unlimited oversight over all State revenues and expenditure. This power is restated in section 299 of the Constitution which reads as follows:
- “Parliament must monitor and oversee expenditure by the State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of Government at every level, including statutory bodies, government controlled entities, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities, in order to ensure that-
- All revenue is accounted for;
- All expenditure has been properly incurred; and
- Any limits and conditions on appropriations have been observed.”
Accordingly, Parliament in general and the Public Accounts Committee in particular has the responsibility to ensure that accountability and openness of the State through oversight of activities of the executive and its auxiliary bodies takes place. The purpose of oversight is to curb misuse of public funds, corruption and effect good practices. Parliament performs this duty through its oversight role and through the committee system.
The work of the Public Accounts Committee is to systematically sustain financial scrutiny of the executive and other arms of government, thereby ensuring financial accountability and transparency.
The Public Accounts Committee is one of these committees of Parliament whose key functions is financial scrutiny. In all parliamentary jurisdictions, the Public Accounts Committee occupies a unique position and enjoys a special mandate as a post audit committee. The Public Accounts Committee does not regulate or question policy. It is simply there to ensure oversight over revenue and expenditure.
In other words, the Committee’s mandate is broad. The Committee makes thorough scrutiny over substantive, procedural and legal processes relating to public expenditure. The Committee derives this wide mandate from section 299 of the Constitution.
The Public Accounts Committee is constituted in terms of Standing Order No. 16 of the Standing Rules and Orders of the National
Assembly which reads:
“Public Accounts Committee
There must be a Committee on Public Accounts, for the examination of the sums granted by Parliament to meet the public expenditure and of such other accounts laid before Parliament as the committee may think fit.”
In doing its work, not only does the Committee measure compliance arising from reports of the Auditor General or other reports but the Committee also looks at constitutional and statutory compliance in so far as it relates to financial and audit matters.
BACKGROUND TO THE ENQUIRY
In performing its duties, the PAC relies mainly on the annual statutory reports compiled by the Auditor General and its findings on the level of implementation of recommendations by various entities audited. In doing so, the Committee is guided by provisions of Section 119 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which provides as follows:
- Parliament must protect this Constitution and promote democratic governance in Zimbabwe.
- 2) Parliament has power to ensure that the provisions of this Constitution are upheld and that the State and all institutions and agencies of government at all levels act constitutionally and in the national interest.
- 3) For the purpose of subsection (2), all institutions and agencies of the State and Government at every level are accountable to Parliament.
Quite clearly therefore, ultimately the purpose of the Committee’s work as the Public Accounts Committee is to promote democratic good governance in Zimbabwe as propagated by the Constitution.
SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
The Committee prioritised analysis of the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development’s accounts on its work plan. This is natural, given the overarching supervisory role of the Ministry itself. In particular, the Committee was concerned since the Ministry had the highest number of non-compliance issues and this was shocking and unacceptable.
By coordinating all ministries in the management of public resources, the Ministry is expected to lead by example and supervise the functionality of the other Ministries. It is the Committee’s view that failure by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to
comply with requirements of the laws obliterates its ability to ensure that other Ministries, local authorities and parastatals equally perform their duties in conformity with the legal requirements.
In short, the Ministry of Finance is key to any government. It is at the nerve centre of the operations of government more than any other
Ministry hence its work and accountability must be beyond reproach.
METHODOLOGY
The Committee studied the 2016 Audit Report by the AuditorGeneral, then the Follow Up Report on Recommendations made in the
2016 Auditor-General’s Reports on Appropriations and Fund Accounts and State Enterprises and Parastatals. The Committee also went through the 2017 Reports on Appropriations and Fund Accounts, State Enterprises and Local Authorities. In addition, the Committee received oral evidence from the Accounting Officer; Mr. G. Guvamatanga, the
Accountant General; Mr. B. Muchemwa and other officials in the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
The Committee was extremely disappointed by the lackadaisical
and indifferent approach of the Accountant General. At his first appearance, the Accountant General came alone, was late for the meeting and appeared totally lost. He failed to answer questions put to him and the meeting had to excuse him. The Committee expects public officials appearing before it to be knowledgeable, available on time, accompanied by departmental officials for any assistance and to equip themselves with adequate information as it relates to their daily duties and activities.
The Committee received evidence from the Accounting Officer,
Mr. G. Guvamatanga. The Committee was not impressed by his conduct.
The Accounting Officer availed himself at the Committee’s third invitation after failing to do so on two previous occasions. On one of the occasions, the pretext given for non-attendance was an internal meeting at the Ministry of Finance. It is the Committee’s strong view that Parliament represents the people of Zimbabwe and its work takes precedence over other engagements. Ministers, bureaucrats and government officials must respect the integrity and sanctity of
Parliament as defined in the Constitution. When he eventually appeared, the Committee was saddened and disappointed by his tone and demeanour.
The Committee found Mr. Guvamatanga obstructive and
defensive. He constantly made reference to the fact that he was new in the Ministry and all issues raised were legacy issues. Tongue in cheek, he sought to blame Parliament for not supervising the Ministry and not raising these issues during the affected period. The Committee wishes to remind Mr. Guvamatanga and anyone else that the State is permanent and that the doctrine of perpetual succession is part of our law.
The Committee was also saddened by the Ministry’s failure to submit on time, additional information requested. Even when the information was submitted, the Ministry failed to provide copies of loan agreements contracted on behalf of the state and the figures of external debts that were not brought to Parliament for approval, just to mention a few.
In addition to that, the Ministry has not given a satisfactory explanation as to why the 2019 Budget Statement was accompanied by two sets of Estimates of Expenditure (Blue Books).
Due to the prevalence of non-compliance to statutory and legal requirements, the Committee’s oral evidence with the Ministry concentrated on those aspects. The Committee is still to conduct a full enquiry on the maintenance of the Ministry’s accounts.
Having gone over the evidence, the Committee found that the there was an entrenchment of a culture of non-compliance by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development officials and indeed by other ministries in Government. Having found the above, the Committee concluded that in some instances, there was deliberate and wilful breach of the law and in other instances there was total ignorance of the law and negligence or indifference.
The Committee was, however encouraged by the Permanent
Secretary’s undertaking that he would review the Ministry’s processes, systems and people in order to determine the causes of the shortcomings in the Ministry and then implement corrective action.
SUMMARY OF FINDINGS
The following is the summary of the findings by the Committee:
- Non-compliance with the provisions of section 300 (3) of the Constitution in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to publish, in the Gazette loans contracted and guarantees issued by Government within sixty days of their conclusion.
- i) Non-compliance with Section 300(4) of the
Constitution in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to present to Parliament a report on loans raised and guarantees issued by the State and a comprehensive report on public debt.
- ii) Partial compliance with section 301(3) of the Constitution in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development
failed to allocate a share of the national revenues resources to local authorities.
- iii) Non-compliance with section 305(5) of the Constitution in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to present in the National Assembly, additional or supplementary estimates of expenditure and additional or supplementary bills.
- iv) Non-compliance with the provisions of Section 23(1) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19) in that since 2014, the Accountant General had failed to issue warrants under his hand, authorizing accounting officers to incur expenditure up to the limits and for the purposes and subjects to conditions contained therein.
- v) Non-compliance with section 30 of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19)in that Treasury failed to withhold funds appropriated to Ministries whose functions were assigned to other
Ministries and to allocate those remaining funds to that other Ministry or institution.
- vi) Non-compliance with section 33(3) of the PFM Act
(Chapter 22:19) which prescribes that the Accountant General
should prepare consolidated quarterly financial statements which should be presented to the National Assembly and the appropriate Portfolio Committee by the Minister.
- vii) Non-compliance with section 34(3) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19)in that the Accountant General failed to prepare consolidated monthly financial statements for the Accounting Officer to cause such statements to be published in the Gazette, within thirty days of the next succeeding month.
- viii) Non-compliance with section 35(3) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19)in that Accountant General failed to prepare for transmission to the Auditor General, the transactions of the Consolidated Revenue Fund and the financial position of the State within three months after the end of each financial year.
- ix) Non-compliance with section11(2) of the Public Debt
Management Act in that the limits for Government’s borrowing were not fixed by the National Assembly by resolution nor by means of a provision in a Finance Bill.
- x) Non-compliance with section 13(1) of the Public Debt
Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to comply with the requirements and condition for borrowings.
- i) Non-compliance with section 20 (2) of the Public Debt
Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development failed to propose and seek approval from the
National Assembly, the aggregate of the amounts to be guaranteed.
- ii) Non-compliance with section 22 (2) of the Public Debt Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to prescribe annual borrowing limits for each local authority.
- iii) Non-compliance with section 28 of the Public Debt Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to establish registries for registration of bonds and stock and to appoint registrars, agents and any other persons necessary for raising, issuing, management and repayment of State loans.
- iv) Non-compliance with section 29(1) of the Public Debt
Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to lay before the National Assembly statements relating to guarantees on any of the first seven sittings when the National Assembly first sits after the guarantees were first given under section 23(2).
- v) Non-compliance with section 30 of the Public Debt Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic development failed to list and present to the National Assembly, monthly, quarterly and annual reports on loans and guarantees.
- vi) Non-compliance with section 36(4) of the Public Debt
Management Act in that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development failed to ensure that all relevant loans contracted were subjected to ratification by Parliament in accordance with the
Constitution.”
DETAILED FINDINGSBY THE COMMITTEE
The following are Constitutional and legal requirements that were put to the Ministry officials, their responses and the Committee’s findings in detail. The Committee then provides its recommendation specific to each non-compliance and some general recommendations:
Publishingin the Gazette, loans contracted and guarantees issued by Government within sixty days of their conclusion
Section 300(3) of the Constitution provides that:
“Within sixty days after the Government has concluded a loan agreement or guarantee, the Minister responsible for finance must cause its terms to be published in the Gazette”.
The Accounting Officer informed the Committee that there were legacy issues with the gazetting of loans and guarantees. He indicated that since the coming in of the new Minister and himself only one loan had been contracted and the loan had been gazetted. He indicated that the Ministry was looking into the issue of loans that had not been published with a view to complying with the requirement.
The Committee noted that the total amount for domestic and foreign debt of $ 17,69 billion as at August 2018reported in the 2019 Budget Statement was different from $ 9, 230 742 461 billion reflected in the 2019 Budget Estimates. The Committee also noted that some external debts were improperly classified as domestic debt. Examples include China Nanchang Engineering, China Intel Water and Electricity and RBZ-/ZISCO/DUTCH, Mota Engel & HCCL Creditors and PTA
Bank among others. It was further noted that all the loans obtained/debts incurred should have been presented to Parliament for approval as these were acquired outside the budget.
Recommendation:
The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must cause the terms of loans contracted and guarantees to be published in the Gazette by 30 September 2019. This applies to loans and guarantees that were not previously published.
Presentation to Parliament of a report on loans raised and guarantees issued by the State and a comprehensive report on
Public Debt.
Section 300(4) of the Constitution states that:
“The Minister responsible for finance must –
- a) At least twice a year, report to Parliament on the performance of –
- i) Loans raised by the State; and ii) Loans guaranteed by the State;
- b) At the same time the estimates of revenue and expenditure are laid before the National Assembly in terms of section 305, table in
Parliament a comprehensive statement of the public debt in Zimbabwe.
The Accounting Officer advised the Committee that the Ministry was currently compiling all previously contracted debt and checking on compliance in order to come up with a schedule depicting the correct position. He stated that there could have been oversight in the past but assured the Committee that he was fully aware of the need to comply with the provisions of the Constitution. Asked on whether his predecessor had willfully violated the law, the Accounting Officer indicated that he was not in a position to express his opinion before the conclusion of the evaluation process that Ministry was working on.
The Committee’s finding was non-compliance with section 300 (4) of the Constitution by the Ministry. The performance of loans raised and loans guaranteed was not reported to Parliament. The Accounting regarding non-compliance was unacceptable to the Committee A list of loans contracted were however presented with estimates of expenditure for the 2019 financial year.
Recommendations: The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must present the first report to Parliament on the performance of loans and guarantees in 2019 by 31 August 2019. He should present the second report for 2019 and a comprehensive statement of the public debt in Zimbabwe at the time the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the 2020 financial year are laid before the National Assembly.
Allocation of revenue between provincial and local tiers of the
Government:
Section 301(3) of the Constitution states as follows:
- (3) Not less than five per cent of the national revenues raised in any financial year must be allocated to the provinces and local authorities as their share in that year.
The Accounting Officer stated that the Ministry had allocated resources for provinces in the 2019 Budget and therefore, complied with the provision. He further stated that the allocations to local authorities were provided for in the Public Sector Investment Programmes (PSIP).
The Committee concluded that the Ministry had partially complied with the requirements of section 301(3) of the Constitution in that
US$310 million had been committed to provincial and local tiers of
Government in the 2019 Budget. It was noted that since the new Constitution came into effect, the Ministry had not been complying with the provisions of section 301(3).The amount allocated constitutes 5% of the expected revenue of US$ 6 199,3 billion. To the extent that the Budget Estimates do not show the specific allocations to local authorities, the Committee did not come across evidence to suggest that the Ministry had fully complied.
Recommendation: The Minister must fully comply in the 2020 Estimates of Expenditure by explicitly indicating the amounts allocated to local authorities.
Supplementary estimates for excess expenditure for 2016 and
2017 financial years.
Section 305(5) of the Constitution provides the following:
If the money appropriated to a purpose under an Appropriation Act is insufficient or if expenditure is needed for a purpose for which no money has been appropriated, the Minister responsible for finance must cause an additional or supplementary estimate to be presented to the National Assembly, and if the National Assembly approves the estimate the Minister must cause an additional or supplementary appropriation Bill to be introduced into the National Assembly providing for the necessary money to be issued from the Consolidated Revenue Fund.”
- The Accounting Officer explained that he was trying to understand the law and come up with the necessary structures to ensure compliance. He acknowledged that there could be issues that had not been handled properly and agreed that there was need to regularise them.
On the 2018 budget deficit amounting to about $ 2,5 billion, the Accounting Officer stated that he had not been in a position to seek condonation before verifying the amount.
The Committee noted that the Ministry had not been complying with section 305 (5) of the Constitution that requires the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to present additional or supplementary estimates. The Committee observed that failure to comply with the provision was a serious non-compliance and undermining of Parliament and the budget process. The table below shows the revenues and expenditures for the years 2014 to 2018 and the budget deficits for each year.
Years |
2014 |
2015 |
2016 |
2017 |
2018 |
Revenue |
$3727.2bnn |
$3727bn |
$3502.2bn |
$3869.n |
$5296.8bn |
Expenditure |
$3911.6b |
$4119.6bn |
$4923.2bn |
$6390b |
$8161.4b |
Deficit |
$-184.4m |
$-392.6m |
$-392.6m |
$-2520.1bn |
$-1566.bn |
Where there is continuous over expenditure outside the budget, it makes Parliament’s budget process a nullity, an exercise in futility and pointless. It is the Executive itself which prepares an annual budget with estimates of revenue and expenditure as required by the law. Therefore, it is only logical that Government must comply and respect its own framework and budget. The efficacy of public finance management and indeed the control of the Consolidated Revenue Fund is only made possible if Government lives within its means and complies with the approved appropriations and relevant legislation.
Recommendation: Government must at all times adhere to the approved budget. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must as a matter of urgency bring to the National Assembly, bills seeking condonation of all the unauthorised expenditure incurred since
- Such condonation must be sought by end of 31 August 2019.
International conventions, treaties and agreements
Section 327 of Constitution provides as follows:
An international treaty which has been concluded or executed by the President or under the President’s authority –
- a) Does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been concluded by
Parliament: and
- b) Does not form part of the law of Zimbabwe unless it has been incorporated into the law through an Act of Parliament;
An agreement which is not an international treaty but which -
(a) has been concluded by the President or under the President’s authority with one or more foreign organisations or entities; and (b) imposes fiscal obligations on Zimbabwe; does not bind Zimbabwe until it has been approved by Parliament.
The Committee noted that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development has not presented to Parliament some of the agreements concluded by the President or under the President’s authority. It is clear that when a debt is not approved it is null and void. It is only a matter of time before an alert citizen sues the Government of Zimbabwe.
Recommendation: The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must present all unapproved international conventions, treaties and agreements to Parliament to ensure due process has been complied with. Presentation of the affected conventions, treaties and agreement should be done by 31 October 2019.
Accountant General’s Warrants
Section 23(1) of the PFMA provides the following:
- “The Accountant-General shall, subject to this Act, by warrant under his or her hand, authorise accounting officers to incur expenditure up to the limits and for the purposes and subject to the conditions contained therein”.
The Accountant General informed the Committee that warrants had not been issued since 2014. He stated that he was finalizing warrants for the 2019 financial year. In answering the question on how he had been monitoring excess expenditure in the absence of warrants, the Accountant General stated that he had been monitoring excess expenditure against the provisions made in the Blue Book.
The Committee’s finding was non-compliance to section 23(1) of the Public Finance Management Act by the Ministry. It was noted that an entity cannot spend without a warrant which authorizes and indicates the amount to be spent. Members observed that warrants also act as audit instruments for money spent by each entity.
The law is very clear on that ministries can only spend and votes can only be utilized under the authority of a warrant. Where expenditure has been incurred in the absence of a warrant, it means that expenditure is unauthorized, null and void. The failure by the Accountant General to issue warrants since 2014 is a serious breach of the law. It means the expenditure has been incurred illegally and surely this is unacceptable.
Recommendations:
- The Secretary should put controls in place to ensure that
Government operates within the limits set by Parliament.
- The responsible authority should take appropriate disciplinary action against the responsible officials in terms of Section 85 to 87 of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19 ) within two weeks of the presentation of this report.
- The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must present to the National Assembly by 30 September 2019 a report assuring the House that retrospective warrants will be issued and future warrants issued before expenditure is incurred. Withholding of appropriated funds
Section 30 of the PFMA states that:
The Treasury—
- may withhold from a Ministry any remaining funds appropriated for a specific function if that function is transferred to another Ministry or any other institution; and
- Shall allocate those remaining funds to that other Ministry or institution.
The Accountant General explained to the Committee that when Ministries are merged the Ministry should get a note on the merged Ministries. He stated that the Auditor General had not been notified of the transfer of funds after the merging and demerging of Ministries without giving reasons for the non-compliance.
The Committee noted that Treasury was non-compliant with section 30 of the Public Finance Management Act relating to withholding of appropriated funds. The response presented by the Ministry was unacceptable as pronouncements on government portfolios were always made. The following changes were made when a new
Cabinet was announced.
- Ministry of Defence merged with the Ministry of Welfare for War Veterans, War Collaborators and former political Detainees and Restrictees.
- Ministry of Finance and Economic Development merged with the Ministry of Macroeconomic Planning and Investment Promotion.
- Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Gender and Community Development merged with the Ministry of Small and Medium
Enterprises and Cooperative Development.
- Ministry of Home Affairs, merged with the Ministry of Rural
Development and Preservation of Culture and Heritage.
- Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development merged with the Ministry of Lands and Rural
Resettlement.
- Ministry of Industry and Commerce now housing the department of Economic Empowerment whose Ministry was abolished.
- Ministry of Information, Media and Broadcasting services merged with the Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services.
- The Committee found the Accountant General’s explanation regarding the appointment of a new Cabinet unacceptable. When His Excellency, the President makes ministerial appointments, the appointments are gazetted. There is no basis for anyone to profess ignorance. Therefore, the Committee found lack of merit in the
Accountant General’s excuse. Ignorance as an excuse is unacceptable. If one is ignorant, one should not find himself fit to hold that position.
Recommendation: The Accountant General should timeously give guidance on accounting for funds when there are changes in Ministries.
There is need to be pro-active rather than sit and wait.
- Preparation and tabling of quarterly financial statements
Section 33(3) of the PFMA prescribes:
(3) “The Accountant-General shall prepare consolidated quarterly financial statements and shall submit such statements to the Secretary, for presentation by the Minister to the National Assembly and to the appropriate Parliamentary Portfolio Committee, within sixty days of the end of the respective quarter”.
The Committee notes that when the Accountant General appeared before the Committee he apologised for failure to prepare financial statements in the past but undertook to timeously produce his quarterly financial statements for 2019, due in March 2019. The Committee noted with regret that once again, he failed to produce the first quarterly report in June 2019.
The Accountant General stated that when he joined the service, the office was five months behind and since then he had been working hard in order to catch up with the monthly reports. He indicated that he had completed the monthly report for November 2018 and was finalizing the report for December 2018. He stated that he had not produced quarterly financial statements. The Committee observed serious non-compliance with this legal requirement.
Preparations of financial statements are a core-function of the Accountant General. Only he has the mandate and obligation to prepare the consolidated financial statements. The Committee found it totally unacceptable that the Accountant General was not capable of executing his core mandate.
Failure by the Accountant General to prepare financial statements as required by the law puts Government into disrepute. It questions the values and principles of good governance which is a founding value in the Constitution. [See section 3(1) (h)]
The Committee does not forgive nor condone the Accountant
General in his failure to prepare financial statements as required by law.
It is a serious indictment against him and his office. If the Accountant
General’ is not able to carry out his tasks, therefore, surely those in authority must rectify the anomaly through appropriate remedies.
Recommendations:
- The Accountant General must prepare consolidated quarterly financial statement for the first and second quarter of 2019 for tabling in the National Assembly by the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development and submission to the Portfolio Committee on Budget, Finance and Economic Development. The due date for tabling and presentation to the Committee is 31 August 2019.
- The responsible authorities should take appropriate disciplinary action against the Accountant General within 60 days of the tabling of this report.
Consolidation of annual financial statements
Section 35(3) of the PFMA provides as follows:
“Within three months after the end of each financial year the Accountant-General shall prepare and transmit to the Auditor-General, in such detail as the Accountant-General, after consultation with the Auditor-General, considers necessary, statements of accounts showing the transactions of the Consolidated Revenue Fund and the financial position of the State on the last day of that financial year”.
The Accountant General reported that he had not prepared the 2017 statements in time and that the statements for 2018 would be submitted for audit by March 2019. When advised that the 2017 report did not have supporting statements, the Accountant General indicated that the statements were still to be obtained from the relevant Ministries. The Committee observed serious non-compliance with this legal requirement. The preparation of transactions of the Consolidated Revenue Fund and position of the State is a critical and core function of the Accountant General’s Office clearly provided in the Act.
Recommendation: Timelines should be complied with to facilitate audit of the statements.
Preparation and reporting of monthly financial statements Section 34(2) of the PFMA stipulates the following:
“The Accountant-General shall prepare consolidated monthly financial statements and shall submit such statements to the Secretary, who shall publish such statements or cause them to be published in the
Gazette, within thirty days of the next succeeding month”.
The Accountant General stated that statements for Treasury and for the other Ministries were not being published on time. He indicated that the statements were however published once they were completed. He did not explain the reasons why the accounts were not being published in time.
The Committee noted serious non-compliance on the preparation and consolidation of financial statements as provided for in sections
33(3), 34(3) and 35(3). It was noted that the Accountant General had not been performing his core business and this omission amounted to serious undermining of Government and had implications on compliance with the legislative requirements by other Ministries.
The Committee noted that there had been partial implementation of the provisions of Section 34(2) of the PFM Act in that monthly figures were published up to March 2019. The Committee urges the Accountant General to keep up the momentum and ensure that there are monthly publications of consolidated financial statements.
Recommendation: The Accountant General must prepare all consolidated financial statements for 2019, which are due and the
Secretary must publish them in the Gazette by 31 August 2019. Thereafter, statements should be up to date in both their preparation and publication.
Preparation and reporting of quarterly financial statements by other Accounting Officers
- Section 33 (1) of the PFM Act provides as follows:
“Every director of finance shall prepare or cause to be prepared quarterly financial statements of the Ministry concerned and shall submit such statements to the accounting officer in that Ministry and the Accountant-General, within fourteen days of the end of the respective quarter.”
During the oral evidence received by the Committee, it was clear that other finance Directors were not complying with the provisions of Section33 (1) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19).The Act obliges finance directors to prepare financial statements to be forwarded to the accounting officer in their ministries and to the Accountant General. It is key for sound financial management that finance directors prepare these financial statements to help the Accountant General to prepare quarterly consolidated financial statements.
Recommendations: The Committee urges the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to enact regulations accompanying the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19) to create obligations and penalties and to sanction those who do not comply with the law. The regulations must be published by 31 August 2019.
Preparation and reporting of monthly statements by other
Accounting Officers
Section 34 (1) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19) provides as follows:
“Every director of finance shall prepare or cause to be prepared monthly financial statements of the Ministry concerned and shall submit such statements to the accounting officer in that Ministry and to the Accountant-General, within fourteen days of the end of the respective month.”
As observed with quarterly financial statements, the Committee noted that a number of finance directors were not complying with section 34 (1) of the PFM Act (Chapter 22:19).
Recommendations: The Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development must publish regulations to the PFM Act by 30September 2019. With the enactment of regulations that create obligations and penalties, all finance directors who fail to comply would be sanctioned.
Borrowing powers and limit
Section 11(2) of the Public Debt Management Act provides that:
“The aggregate of the amounts that may be borrowed in terms of sub-section (1) in any financial year by way of loans shall not exceed the limit fixed by the National Assembly, which limit the Minister may propose to the National Assembly for approval by resolution or by means of a provision in a Finance Bill”
The Committee was informed that Government borrowing in 2017 amounted to $14.6 billion or 66% of the Gross Domestic Product which stood at $ 22 billion after rebasing of the GDP. The Committee was informed that the percentage for 2018 was not yet available as the
Ministry was waiting for creditors’ statements. The Accounting Officer informed the Committee that an External and Domestic Debt Management Committee, provided for in the Act, had not been established until recently. He stated that the Committee had not sat for the past fourteen years.
For a country such as Zimbabwe which has faced many years of an unsustainable and crippling debt, public debt management is of crucial importance. Not only that, it is so important for Government to exercise prudent debt contraction policies as well as strict compliance on debt contraction limits defined in the law. In addition, there must be strict compliance with constitutional provisions relating to Section 300 of the Constitution. The Committee, therefore, urges the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to be scrupulous and diligent in both debt contraction and debt disclosure.
The Committee places on record that it experienced difficulties in getting from Government, the full disclosure of Government debt. Different figures popped up in different documents and sometimes in the same set of documents. For instance, figures of debt in the budget statement for the 2019 budget was $17,69 billion but in the budget estimates the figure had$9, 2 billion. The Committee requested a consolidated statement of debt. This was belatedly submitted to the Committee. The Committee attaches hereto, as appendix A, the statement which reflects yet another figure for public debt.
Quite clearly a lot of work needs to be done in the Public Debt
Management office. More importantly however, it is the Committee’s strong view that the work of the Public Debt Management office is compromised because it is a department of the Ministry of Finance. The
Committee’s view is that an independent standalone board be
established by an Act of Parliament just like ZIMSTATS was established by an Act of Parliament.
The Committee’s finding was that Government had been noncompliant with section 11(2) of the Public Debt Management Act by exceeding the borrowing limit of 70% to GDP, before rebasing of the Gross Domestic Product figures. The table below shows total debt figures from 2014 to 2018 against the Gross Domestic Product and the corresponding debt to GDP ratios after rebasing.
Period/description |
2014 |
2015 |
2016 |
2017 |
2018 |
Total debt (bn) |
$8.380 |
$9.269 |
$11.220 |
$14.642 |
$16.649 |
GDP (million) |
$19.496 |
$19.963 |
20.549.0 |
$22.041.0 |
24.584 |
Debt to GDP |
43.0% |
46.4% |
54.6% |
66.4% |
67.7% |
The Committee noted that Parliament had not approved by
resolution or by means of a provision in a Finance Bill the aggregate amounts that would be borrowed in any financial year by way loans.
Guided by the Southern African Development Community (SADC) debt
to GDP threshold of 60% of GDP, the Committee recommends that
Parliament sets a limit of 50%for the 2019 Budget.
Recommendations:
- The Ministry of Finance should comply with the laws of Zimbabwe and bring before Parliament the proposed limit for 2019 borrowings by31 August 2019.
- The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must create a Public Debt Management office which should be an independent organ of the State regulated by a separate Act of
Parliament.
Process of raising loans
Section 13(1) of the Public Debt Management Act provides the following: “The Minister may, when so authorized in terms of section 11, borrow money, subject to sub-section (3) upon such conditions as he or she may fix.”
The Act requires that prior to borrowing money the Minister shall:
- a) Ensure that it is in the public interest to do so; and
- b) Ensure that it is consistent with Government economic and financial policies and the medium term debt management strategy; and
- c) Satisfy himself or herself that the Government has or is likely to have, on current projections, the financial ability to meet all obligations under the loan, including future loan repayments; and
- d) Consult the Attorney-General and obtain in writing from the Attorney-General an opinion approving the legal aspects of the loan agreement.
The Accounting Officer informed the Committee that the condition
for the Minister to satisfy himself that government has or is likely to have on current projections, the ability to meet all obligations under the loan was not met. The reasons given for the non-compliance was that Government was concentrating on clearing arrears to creditors. The
Accounting Officer pointed out that consultation with the AttorneyGeneral to seek his opinion on the legal aspects on loan agreements were not done because the External and Domestic Debt Management
Committee had not been constituted.
In the testimony before the Committee, the Committee was not satisfied with the process through which debt was contracted. The Committee was also disturbed by the multiple sources of debt contraction in Zimbabwe. It is the Committee’s view that the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development must be the sole debt contracting agency. The Committee was disturbed to note that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe in particular was contracting huge amounts of sovereign debts without any respect to the laws of the country.
The Committee’s finding was serious non-compliance with section 13(1) of the Public Finance Management Act in contracting debt without due diligence.
Recommendations:
- All future borrowings by Government must comply with the requirements prescribed and satisfy the conditions set in the Act.
- The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must amend the Public Debt Management Act so that the sole contracting agent for debt becomes the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, acting on behalf of His Excellency, the President and subject to the Constitution.
Powers to give guarantees
Section 20 (2) of the Public Debt Management Act stipulates the following:
“The aggregate of the amounts that may be guaranteed in terms of sub-section (1) (a) in any financial year in respect of indebtedness or other obligations raised, incurred or established, as the case may be, shall not exceed the limit fixed by the National Assembly, which limit the Minister may propose to the National Assembly for approval or by means of a provision in a Finance Bill.”
The Committee was informed that the limit was not sought from the National Assembly as dictated by the Act. The Accounting Officer indicated that the current limit was 70% of the Gross Domestic Product.
The Committee observed that the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development had been breaching section 20(2) of the Public
Debt Management Act by not seeking the National Assembly’s approval of the aggregate of the amounts that were guaranteed in any financial year. Guarantees given are contingent liabilities to the State, therefore they impose fiscal obligations on the State. That being the case, guarantees must be treated in the same manner as ordinary debts. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must, therefore, comply with the provisions of Sections300 and 327 of the Constitution and Section 20 (2) of the Public Debt Management Act.
Recommendation: The Minister of Finance and Economic Development should propose a limit that can be guaranteed for the financial year 2020 by 30 September 2019. The National Assembly should consider the proposal and approval should be done by 31
December 2019 or through the approval of the Finance Bill for 2020.
Borrowing by local authorities and public entities
Section 22 (2) of the Public Debt Management Act provides as follows:
“The Minister shall after consultation with the Minister of Local Government prescribe an annual borrowing limit for each local authority based on its capacity to repay and such other consideration as the Minister may determine.”
The Committee was informed that borrowing limits were not set for local authorities and consultations with the Ministry of Local Government were not done. The Ministry officials explained that instead, before a local authority borrowed, due diligence would be carried out to assess the entities’ ability to repay the loan.
The Committee’s finding was serious non-compliance with section 22(2) of the Public Debt Management Act by not consulting with the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing for purposes of prescribing an annual borrowing limit for each local authority. The Committee found out that borrowing powers are academic and that borrowings by Local Authorities can hardly sustain their expenditures. The Committee proposes that Central Government should be the principal sponsor and driver of capital expenditure by
Local Authorities.
Recommendations:
- The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must conduct consultations with the Minister of Local Government, Public
Works and National Housing and prescribe annual borrowing limits for
each local authority applicable in the 2020 financial year by 31 December 2019.
- Local Authorities should be allowed to engage other financiers on the principle of private public partnerships (PPP) and Built,
Operate and Transfer (BOT)
Other powers of Minister
Section 28 of the Public Debt Management Act provides the following:
“The Minister may –
- a) establish registries for the registration of bonds and stock;
- b) appoint registrars, agents and any other person necessary for the raising, issuing, management and repayment of State loans for the doing of any act which, in terms of this Act or any agreement relating to a State loan, may or shall be done by the Minister, registrar, agent or any such other person.”
The Committee was informed that registries were housed at the
Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe.
The Committee noted that there was non-compliance with section 28 of the Public Debt Management Act in that the registries should not be housed at the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. The Committee felt that even when the registries are housed at the RBZ, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should have maintained its own debt
registers.
Recommendation: The Minister of Finance and Economic Development should establish registries housed in an independent standalone institution.
Disclosure of information concerning loans and guarantees Section 29(1) of the Public Debt Management Act compels the Minister as follows:
“Where a guarantee is given the Minister shall lay before the National Assembly a statement relating to that guarantee on any of the first seven sittings when the National Assembly first sits after the guarantee is first given under section 23(2)”
The Ministry officials submitted that there was no evidence that the Minister had tabled in the National Assembly reports of guarantees made as required by the Act.
The Committee’s finding was non-compliance with Section 29(1) of the Public Debt Management Act for not laying before the National
Assembly guarantees given by the State.
Recommendation: The Minister of Finance and Economic Development must lay before the National Assembly a statement of all guarantees given in 2019 by 30September 2019. The guarantees should be treated as national debt.
Monthly, quarterly and annual reports on loans and guarantees
Section 30 of the Public Debt Management Act compels the
Ministry to list guarantees given in terms of section 23 (2). It also provides for the list of guarantees during the financial year or during a particular month and the cumulative national position and that the reports be laid before the National Assembly at least bi-annually by the
Minister within sixty days of the end of the period concerned.
The Ministry argued that section 30 of the Public Debt
Management Act had been partially complied with. It was revealed to the Committee that the Ministry did not have a list of the amounts guaranteed except the total amount for all the guarantees. The total was however not mentioned or submitted to the Committee.
The Committee’s finding was non-compliance with section 30 of
the Public Debt Management Act.
Recommendation: The Accounting Officer should bring before Parliament the full listing of the guarantees from 2014 to date by 30
September 2019 as per the laws of the country.
Reporting to Parliament on Loans Contracted
Section 36(4) of the Public Debt Management Act provides as follows:
“The Minister shall ensure that all relevant loans contracted under this Act will be subject to ratification by Parliament in accordance with the Constitution.”
The Accounting Officer submitted that the loans contracted by the
Minister had been ratified by Parliament and the instrument of
ratification served as part of the conditions precedent for those loans to be made effective by the creditor
The Committee’s finding was partial compliance with the requirement to report all loans contracted to Parliament. It was noted that some of the loans were presented to Parliament but not all of them. The Committee noted huge borrowings from AFREXIM Bank as recent as May 2019, various Chinese loans and the Diaspora Infrastructure
Development Group loan. The Minister disclosed to Parliament that Government owed $1.6bn. Of concern is that the loans have not been brought to Parliament. We therefore urge authorities to comply with the laws.
Recommendation: The Minister of Finance and Economic
Development must present all loans contracted under the Public Debt Management Act to the National Assembly for ratification. All loans must be presented by 30 November 2019.
REVIEW OF STAFF PERFORMANCE, PROCESSES AND
SYSTEMS IN THE MINISTRYOF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT
After going through the legal provisions, the Committee proceeded to analyse the processes, staff issues and systems in the Ministry and made the following findings:
That Non-compliance was willful as there was no respect of Parliament and the law. This was unacceptable to the Committee because of the consequences. Non-compliance by the Ministry undermined public administration in Zimbabwe and the functioning of a modern state. It also undermined transparency and accountability. The Committee recommends that disciplinary proceedings be undertaken in terms of section 87 of Public Finance Management
Act Chapter 22:19.
That there was a problem with the person of the Accountant General. The Committee did not believe that he knows what he is supposed to do as defined in the Public Finance Management Act.
(preparing the country’s accounts and providing oversight to accounting officers in other Ministries). There was also non-compliance by Accounting Officers in other Ministries with regards to publishing their own financial statements.
That the Committee had evidence on the incompetence of officers in the Debt Management Office given that the figures for domestic and foreign debt disclosed in the Estimates of Expenditure for 2019 (produced twice with the same error) was $9.230 billion against a figure of $17. 282 billion indicated in the Budget Statement. In addition, there were some items were reflected as domestic debt when they were foreign debts and that the last transaction of external debt recorded was for 2015 yet there have been external debts contracted after that period.
That it was not sufficient for representatives of an institution to apportion blame to the past. System failure could not be attributed to changes at Minister and Permanent Secretary levels if bureaucrats do their jobs.
That in the last few years, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development had the most audit qualifications notwithstanding the fact that the Auditor General had been indicating areas of non-compliance that needed to be addressed.
That that the PFM system depends on people so much, which must not be the case in this era of information communication technologies (ICTs). The system is known to be self-producing and only requires the human hand when there has been a system breakdown.
That the Committee had also noted that the Accounting Officer was not enforcing compliance with the requirements of the laws. To address that challenge, the Committee recommends that from July 2019, the Accounting Officer for Finance and Economic Development should hold regular meetings with officials in the Ministry to check on compliance issues.
To enhance transparency and accountability in the use of public resources, the Committee recommends that from 31 August 2019, the Public Finance Response Unit be operationalised and the head of the Unit be at Principal Director level, reporting directly to the Minister on non-compliance issues and giving regular reports to the Public Accounts Committee.
That audit Committees in Ministries perform their duties and work closely with the Auditor General. The Accounting Officer should only have influence over them in their administrative issues. The Committee recommends that the PFMA be amended to recognise the
independence of the audit committees by 31 December 2019. In addition, the regulations for the Act should also be published by 31 December 2019.
That Parliament, particularly the Public Accounts Committee and Portfolio Committee on Finance and Economic Development should vigorously play their roles to ensure that Government, through the Ministries comply with provisions of the law in the discharge of their duties.
That the behavior of the Permanent Secretary was not consistent with the expectations of Members of the Committee who felt that he was disrespectful, an example being his reference to the Chairperson as former Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
During the Committee’s inquiry, it became evident that part of the challenges was that Government had not fully implemented egovernance as well as use of modern electronic platforms. Government including the Accountant General’s Office was still to migrate to the use of International Public Sector Accounting Standards. The Committee recommends that implementation processes be speeded up to aid in the improvement of financial management in the public sector and doing business in general.
CONCLUSION: The Committee noted that over the years, the Auditor-General had been issuing fantastic reports and recommendations which were not followed up or implemented by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. The Committee hope that the recommendations contained in this report, once adopted by the Parliament shall be implemented.
On the Committee’s part it shall be its duty to follow up on
compliance of its recommendations. It is in the best interest of our country that there is transparency and accountability around public resources. It is also important that those who are entrusted with public funds do so diligently, openly and with great respect to the Constitution and laws of the country.
If they do so, then they will be friends of the Public Accounts
Committee. If they don’t, then the Public Accounts Committee will continue to come after them.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. A lot of issues have been dealt with and completely ventilated but the point I seek to address is the issue of re-occurrence and non-adherence to the reports by the Auditor General. Hon. Speaker Sir, our Committee on Public Accounts has a pre-defined trajectory and speaks to and about issues of the
Auditor General’s Report. It is a post-budget Committee which seeks to interrogate the framework of the compliance issues by line ministries.
When a fish starts rotting, it starts from the head; the person we are interrogating today is the Finance Ministry which is the gold finger in military terms. He is the owner of the purse and the one who distributes it; for as long as his house is not in order, he is certainly going to disburse venom to the other line ministries or parastatals. So, it is prudent to interrogate the manner in which the Executive carries out its mandate, in particular, this gold finger that we are talking about.
Further to this Hon. Speaker, I want to applaud the Auditor General, Mrs. Chiri. She is now on another second five-year term on her mandate because of the Public Accounts Committee and this whole House which recommended her to continue on her mandate and she was re-appointed. It is my clarion call and fervent hope that the adherence to these Auditor General’s reports takes route immediately and starts at the top with the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to also say further to the reports that we have been given as a Committee of all the local authorities, and also the 2018 reports that that speak to all other parastatals, we are going to be interrogating all the forensic audits that have ever been carried out in
Zimbabwe. Already, we see that they are numbering up to about 16 and
I will touch on all of them: Air Zimbabwe Forensic Report, ZISCO Steel Report, ZESA, Forensic Report, ZBC Forensic Report – I also want to say, there is going to be interrogation on the National Social Security
Authority Report, the Net One Report, ZINARA Forensic Report, The
People’s Own Bank (POSB) Report, the National Railways of
Zimbabwe Forensic Report, the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority IT Forensic Report, The Zimbabwe Revenue Authority Forensic Report, the Allied Timbers Forensic Report, the Cold Storage Commission Forensic Report, the African Union Sports Council Region 5 Youth
Games Forensic Report and the Grain Marketing Board Forensic Report.
Mr. Speaker Sir, our trajectory is pre-defined and it is only fair for people to know that we are coming there because our reports are the ones that are championed by the Auditor General. So Mr. Speaker Sir, these reports are going to see the gnashing of teeth by the AuditorGeneral. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, these reports are going to see the gnashing of teeth and be the centre for evidence based evaluation in terms of financial management systems.
My last point will be, according to the recommendations, findings and summary, we need to adhere to the principles of making sure that we uproot all the dead wood. With a country that is endowed with so many people numbering 15 million, there is no need to continue to recycle dead wood. It is not the Ministers that have a challenge but it is the middle management and the accounting officers. It is time that we see them go because we have seen them come. According to the Bible, it actually says, “the year King Hosea died, I saw Heaven”.
Because of the subsistence and the tabling of this report that is pregnant with a lot of consistent and very prudent issues, we should see the going of the middle management and we see some new blood coming in that is quite effective, efficient, vociferous and active in carrying out their mandate. We have a lot of graduates out there and the issue of e-Governance was completely and effectively ventilated here by my Chairman of that Public Accounts Committee. We do not need to continue on the path of collusion, corruption and nepotism.
Let us carry out our mandate using coordination, more coordination and networking. We do not continue on the path of BBC which is ‘born before computers’. We now need to embrace technology so that we are not archaic, moribund, rudimentary and antiquated in our way of carrying out our day to day modern day mandate. Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to completely ventilate the issues that are key in the Public Accounts Committee Report. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I now move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. S. SITHOLE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019.
On the motion of HON. NDUNA, seconded by HON. S.
SITHOLE, the House adjourned at a Minute to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 25th July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS
WORKSHOP
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the
Senate that all Members of the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a one day workshop on the unpacking of the Marriages Bill on
Monday 29th July, 2019 at Rainbow Towers Hotel starting at 08:00hrs
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before we proceed to
questions without notice, I just have three apologies from Ministers but I am surprised that the front row is almost empty yet I have only three apologies and I do not know why. The apologies I have are from the following:
Hon. Prof. M. Ncube – The Minister of Finance and Economic
Development;
Hon. M. Mutsvangwa – The Minister of Information, Media and
Broadcasting Services; and
Hon. Z. Ziyambi -The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Present in the House are; - The Minister of Higher and Tertiary
Education (Hon. Prof Murwira); The Deputy Minister of Defence and
War Veterans (Hon. Matemadanda); The Minister of State for
Mashonaland East Province (Hon. Munzverengwi); The Minister of
State for Manicaland Province (Hon. Dr. Gwaradzimba); and The
Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing (Hon. Mhlanga). Hon. Ministers, you are most welcome.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Madam
President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Excuse me Hon.
Member. I think we have to follow procedures. You stand up so that I recognise you. You cannot just call from your seat.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. I
just want to make a point of order after what you have said. As leader of the opposition in this House, I really want you Madam President to present this case as to whether Ministers take this House seriously. Last time we were debating something on social welfare and pensions there was no Minister here. Today is the only day that people interact with
Ministers so that we do not wait too long to discuss things happening in Government. Unfortunately, we seem to accept that Ministers come when they want and when they do not want they just do not come. I am looking at this Order Paper and there are some questions which have been asked as far back as 1st November 2018 which have not been responded to. There are a number of questions here to the Minister of Finance from October 2018, how do we then say we are committing ourselves to serving the nation when Ministers choose when to come and when not to come? There is no movement by these Houses to ensure that Ministers are here.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you leader of
the Opposition. I think it was after I had already referred to. You are supporting me, meaning that as the President of the Senate. We are going to register our complaint concerning this. We are however hoping that some more Ministers will walk in as we proceed. We will complain to the Leader of the House who is the Minister of Justice so that he checks where the Ministers are. I think we have to proceed with those who are here present.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam President, where is the
leader of the House because when the Ministers are not around we expect the Government Leader of the House whom we were introduced to as the Minister of Agriculture. He has not been here for quite some time. The Minister is supposed to be the Leader of the House in the Senate according to our records.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Mudzuri, I think when we mean we are going to complain, we do not segregate the complaints. We are also going to complain that we are not getting the Ministers, starting from the Leader of the House. So, when we write we will include him.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question. My question goes to the Deputy
Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Deputy Minister, I want to know what policies you have put in place so far. People are suffering out there due to lack of water and roads are really bad. I just want to understand the policies that you have put in place to help the people of Zimbabwe in local governance. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): Thank you very much Madam President and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for posing that question. Yes, the problems that the Hon. Senator is pointing out are inherent in most of our local authorities because of the aging infrastructure. However, Government is moving in with fiscal support to try and expand on that infrastructure.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: My question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. When are you going to increase allowances given to war veterans so that they can pay school fees for their children and also pay for their medical expenses because as you know PSMAS no longer accepts war veterans and as a result they are forced to pay cash upfront when seeking medical treatment.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): I would like to thank the
Hon. Senator for his very pertinent question. As war veterans, we are also not happy with the money being given to war veterans. I wish the Minister of Finance and Economic Development was in the House so that we could direct this question to him because the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is the one responsible for war veterans allowances.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. We have been reading in the social media and on the internet about the threats of Alkaeda or ISIS in the Republic of Mozambique. Is this a credible threat and if so, how prepared is the Zimbabwean Government to deal with it?
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS
(HON. MATEMADANDA): I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mwonzora.
The state of security and insecurity is dealt with by the national JOC.
That is the organ which assesses the level of security and insecurity and I can only comment if I am told by them, what level of security threat we have. So, I suggest that maybe this question be put on paper so that it can be taken to the nation JOC which is responsible for assessing the level of security threat. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you Hon. President of the Senate.
My question is directed at Hon. Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, Prof. Murwira. I would like to know whether there has been a major shift in the education policy especially in higher education regarding degrees offered at universities in Zimbabwe. There have been some press releases which appear to be confusing saying that some degrees are going to be disregarded, that some degrees are not really useful in this country. So, I would like to find out if ever you can update this House whether we are hearing the truth or there is something wrong. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I wish to thank Hon. Sen. Khupe for that question. Our education has always to be checked for quality and in checking for quality, we are saying our national strategic intent in education is that it must be able to cause industry. It must be able to cause industry by providing goods and services because universities produce either people who produce goods which is industry which are tangibles, or services which are intangibles like lawyers give for example. What we are faced with in this country is we are having an education system that was mainly focusing on three things which are teaching, research and community service which are workshops basically. I call this education 3.0.
We are faced with a situation also where our education, if you look at pharmacy for example, we have a situation whereby a pharmacist who is supposed to make the drugs is selling the drugs that are imported, so they are becoming sales people. Another example is a doctor who is supposed to cure me is almost like an immigration officer who then refers me to the next person outside of the country.
What are we saying? When we did our National Skills Audit, we had findings – in medicine and health sciences our skills levels are at 5% and our skills deficit is 95% and it is exactly explaining what is happening. In natural and applied sciences our skills levels are at 3%, our deficit is 97%. I always make a joke when I am talking to my colleagues to say, I think that is why people like the Tsikamutanda’s a lot. They talk about Tsikamutanda, they talk about witches that are falling from the sky because people are not doing real science. So this is quality.
In terms of business and commerce, you find that we have an excess of 21% in terms of skills levels. If you would allow me Madam President to say in Shona, kana gondo rapotsa nhiyo, rinokumba zvese nemarara. Whereby we say that our people, instead of doing commerce, they end up even trading the money itself. Ndokusaka vanhu vachitengesa mari. Vanotengesa anything. saka kana vashaiwa vanokumba zvese nemarara. I am trying just to explain a point. In terms of agriculture, we have a skills deficit of 88% and 12% skills level. It will not surprise you why sometimes we are importing food. On the other hand, in law, we have a skills deficit of 92%, skills availability 8%. Overall in arts, we have a skills surplus 13%. This is what we are faced with as a nation. We have 94% plus literacy which means that is a very good plus for us.
We are very good in terms of literacy but we are always saying, knowing is not a problem, knowledge is always not a problem. Any fool can know. It is about understanding. When you understand, you can make things. It therefore makes us be able to introspect within our systems and say yes, we have this strength but why are we hungry when we have so much literacy. Why do we not have industries, when we have so much literacy? Literacy tells us that it is just a raw material but we have to move on. We do not have to over celebrate this literacy. Reading and writing, but do you understand what you are reading and writing. This is what we are having for example, when you look at literacy in this country, it is very high and that is why people are on twitter. Every time, they can read, decode, code and shout at each other on twitter because they can read and write, but are they making sense?
This is what the education has to be asking about.
This then calls on us to say, what do we do about this cloud that does not rain? What do we do about this well that does not have water? It does not bear water, ihorei isinganaye? There is something, we must look at it. We then went on to say, maybe we really have to analyse the design of our education itself. We discovered that the design of our education is such that it promotes literacy and promotes people who look for a job but then the question is, because sometimes we say, we create employment, but we do not ask ourselves how is employment created? It should necessarily come from education itself because education itself must produce employment. Why is our education not producing employment? It is because of its design of education 3.0 which says, you do nothing, you just get literate and you wait for a person to hire you to do a job but that person was he or she not born of woman. Why are they able to create a job so that you can work and you will just wait for it. This was a colonial design whereby we have to work in factories that were thought at Cambridge, that were thought at Edinbursh because they were complete universities. Here we only had to be literate in order to be able to manage the systems but not design them.
We then said, now we need to examine our education and add two more missions so that we are complete as a post independent State. You cannot expect to use colonial education in a post independence State and expect a different result from a colonial result. Therefore, we then said no, let us add innovation, let us add industrialisation. This innovation and industrialisation makes universities be able to have five budget items and colleges. Budget item on teaching, budget item on research, budget item on workshops, budget item on innovation and budget item on industrialisation. If you put budget, things will happen and budget is put because of a design. That is why we have said, our education has to move from 3.0 to 5.0. This enables us to be able to explain exactly what is happening with degrees. Then we said, this is a design, what is the other problem that this – why is it that we have a country which has minerals but somebody else discovers them and we say, aah, kune maminerals but we were sitting on them. What makes that education not see the environment in which it is supposed to transform? Education by nature must transform people’s lives by looking at the immediate environment in which they are.
One example that I want to give is, we still design our roofs using what we say snow pack weight. Snow muZimbabwe! Snow pack weight! There is no snow in this country and there has never been snow in this country but we are using snow pack weight. It means this education is removed from the environment that it is expected to transform. There is a philosophical problem and we have to look at the education. All education must be heritage based. When we say heritage we do not mean you have to play drums before you start lectures in engineering. We are just saying, heritage is what you have, your people, your minerals, vegetation, animals, your soil and your water. You start from there and education can work, from there education must work on those. Whether it is physics but it is physics of things in Zimbabwe, if it is geology, it is geology of rocks in Zimbabwe, if it is medicine, it is medicine of trees in Zimbabwe. We then said we have a problem of being philosophical, that is why we said heritage based philosophy.
Africa is one of the continents where people eat what they do not grow.
We said, why is it that people are always talking about maize, wheat and soya bean but when they talk about their crops, they call them small grains; but I thought wheat also is a small grain and rappoko is a small grain. Therefore, this small does not mean small in terms of size, it is meaning small in terms of significance. Our education therefore has to have huge revolution, a shift in mentality. First, there is a design problem, secondly, there is a philosophical problem with it whereby we say why we can not eat bread from rappoko because rappoko can prepare bear? You can, because rappoko is the wheat of the tropics. The first question you have to be asked when you are coming from a place is kwenyu kuno merei? Sei chitigrower zvinhu zvisingameri munyika medu and it ends up being a huge investment. Zvinodhura, this irrigation, this, that because tirikugrower zvinhu zvisingameri and yet our education should give us answers to this. Therefore, we really have to introspect. In that introspection we then said, what kind of degrees are we offering? What is their philosophy? What are they trying to produce in terms of goods and services because Zimbabwe has been having a problem of paper accumulation of saying I have a certificate in this, I have a certificate in that saka tinezhara nei kana une certificate iyoyo. People end up saying, I have so much degrees and a person can tell you kuti, degree rangu rakatsva wena. Ndichatonyorera University iyoyo, degree rangu rakatsva wena. Degree harifaniri kutsva nekuti degree riri mumusoro mako, chinotsva icertificate.
VaMwonzora ravo rikatsva certificate, I am sure kuti vanoramba vachipurakitiza while he writes to the University to say, can you give me my certificate. Asi omuno anotsva. Sei madegree achitsva? Degree harifaniri kutsva. Degree rinonzi rinoscrapwa sei. Hariscrapwi because riri mumusoro mako. Iwewe ukaenda kumba kwako ukati degree rako rakatsva asi iwewe uri mupenyu, it means kuti harisi rako, hauna degree. We are having a country whereby people have papers which are saying something and their head is saying something else.
This is exactly the crux of Zimbabwe’s problem. We then said, all degrees, we are having a list of degrees that must go and a list of degrees that must not go and a list of degrees that must not go. All degrees are relevant but they are made relevant by two things like what is your board of knowledge before I come into your class and what are you going to teach me? The other thing is what are the skills that I will have when I get out of there? So, degrees must necessarily have two things, board of knowledge and board of skill.
We did the Zimbabwe National Qualifications Framework which enforces that every degree, no matter what you call it, must tell us what it is doing, what skills it is giving and what knowledge it is giving. There is no list like this degree called this will go. Any degree even in engineering can go if it is not telling us what it is doing in terms of knowledge and in terms of skills. So there are no lists. We believe that we are complying at this moment.
This week, we were at Midlands State University with all academics and we are realigning our education to Education 5.0 that is heritage based and we are doing it together. In this, we are realigning our degrees in such a way that they will give us development in this country. You cannot send a child to school and finish all your cattle and goats and that child comes back to you saying he wants a job. It basically means that what he did at school is meaningless. So, these are the issues that we are looking at.
The policy shift is no more papers in this country, they shall be degrees. No more papers because papers can tell you something else but degree should stay in your head. Hatidi madegree anonzi akatsva mumba iwe uri mupenyu. Anogotsva sei iwe uri mupenyu? Ndaifunga kuti kana rakatsva, iwe ungadai wakafawo but because urikuti akatsva iwe uri mupenyu wanga usina degree iroro. So, the issue which we are basically saying is that the shift is towards an education ine pundutso, education ine basa, education that produces goods and services.
Industry does not fall from the sky, it is created by people, people who went through an education system. Saka sei education system yedu isingaproduse industry? It is because of its design. This is what we have looked at. We are just looking at the design of the education system and its philosophy and we are improving as we go the way forward. So, the issue is there is no wrong time to do the right thing. We are just doing it but it does not mean that we will say Dr. Mavetera your degree has been taken away. It cannot be taken away from him because it is in his head. Nothing like that can happen because it is not practical. The issue is improving as we move ahead with our country. It is our only country and it can only be developed by its own people and not anybody else. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: It is difficult to make a
supplementary question when the Minister has explained very well. Madam President, I want to thank the Hon. Minister. He has explained the policy very well but I want us to go further with this issue. We once had Professors like the late Prof. Kamba, who when they speak, you would find it very interesting. They were very bright indeed. I think you should carry everybody on board, including Parliament. My question is; what plan do you have for the Members of Parliament to support you on where we are going so that together, we understand it and do it as well.
Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDCUATGION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon.
President. I think we need more assistance from Parliament in the interest of Zimbabwe that we are saying we are a literate nation. We are only left with a little movement so that we have a real revolution in the way this country can be rich. What is that little movement to just say you were educated and so what happened? Zvinoita kuti vanhu varangarire kuti dzidzo yangu ndeyei. Every degree that we do must lead to something kwete kungoti ndaane degree ndipei basa. Sakai we unebasa rei? I hope I am not confusing you to say kana iwe uchida basa iwe unebasa rei. Unofanira kundiudza kuti unogonei ndisati ndakupa basa. Uye futi...
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister let me
assist with that supplementary question from Sen. Chief Charumbira. What he is saying is that what plan do you have for the Members of Parliament to support you and where we are going so that together we understand it and do it as well.
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDCUATGION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I am saying the
assistance that we need from Parliament is if it was possible that we give you all the books that we have written about this movement. We also want to be assisted that we do workshops so that we are able to understand each other on what we want to do. This issue is very important because if you throw a boomerang, it comes back to you and if you throw the arrow, it does not come back. If you throw the arrow thinking that it would come back as a boomerang does, it does not work. So the whole thing is in the design of the whole national system as to what we really need as people. So, I need the assistance of Parliament so that together, we find the way forward.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Hon. Members
want you to move together with others.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: I am quite impressed that the Minister
has realised that we have got people who are literate, but with no skills and I am talking with reference to the medical fraternity which he said we have got a skills gap of almost 94%. Is the Minister aware that as we speak right now, I will give just one example but it translates to all medical schools in the country which is UZ, NUST and MSU. We are actually going where you want us to be coming from. We are producing people who are literate but with no skills because there are a few teachers. The university has expanded intakes to 300 say the UZ for medical school but the staff compliment since 2000, I was one of them until last year.
We were still saying for the department of pediatrics 14, which was catered for a class of 60 and now when you go to tutorials you have got a teacher who is having a tutorial with 40- students which is not possible. What is the Ministry doing to carry out your vision because I will tell you one of the issues that you cannot improve is the skills in medical side because you find the teachers are earning less than the juniors who graduate and you find very little incentive for teachers to come and teach. So, what is the Ministry doing?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Mind you, Hon. Sen.
that was a supplementary question. I can see that you are bringing in a different question. Can we stick to the supplementary question which originates from the original?
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President.
Probably, I would say what is he doing? I have already explained so that we do not actually produce literate but people with skills because the scenario at the moment is that we are going where we want to take ourselves away from for the reasons I have explained Madam President
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I wish to thank the Hon. Sen for the question. What we are doing is to look at the four pillars of making sure that our education which produce goods and services is achieved.
- We are looking at the programmes themselves which I was trying to explain to Hon. Khupe that the programmes have to be well structured such that they produce something.
- We said the promotions infrastructure and the staffing infrastructure has to be looked at. This is actually looking at the question that you are posing in terms of what we are doing. We want to make sure that people want to stay with us, want to work there and want to enjoy their jobs. So that is pillar number two
- Pillar number three, we want to make sure that the physical infrastructure is well done. That is why we have even said to the private sector; come and work with us, have consultations with high end hospitals around our universities so that it improves our income and we can encourage our people to want to work with us.
- The fourth pillar is our financial infrastructure and that is why we have introduced again the student loan scheme. This also includes the staff financial infrastructure so that we can do well. In this way – that is why the question becomes extremely relevant to say we really need strong backing from Parliament for the survival of this nation because a nation mainly survives on what it can do rather than on what it can import. It is what it can do which we call human capacity. Everything else becomes secondary. It is about
what people can do. So, we really think that financing universities is not a luxury but a security item in that it is health, food and it is everything that a nation can be made of. It is the lawyers and I think all Hon. Members that are here passed through the education system. That is it. So, we have to look at that and I am really looking forward to Parliament moving in this direction so that we have an education which is not just a label but an education that is a level. Levels and not labels. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans. Some two weeks ago, we read in the social media that when the Minister was in Lupane he asked for donations of medicines to be used in Lupane hospitals. My question is, should people expect to be treated only when there are elections or should health institutions receive medicines during election period only? In his capacity as Deputy
Minister of Defence and War Veterans, the Minister promised people in Lupane that hospitals will be fully supplied with medicines. My question then is, will the hospitals still be fully supplied even after elections?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you very much for
that question. What the Hon. Member has stated is not true. When he says he noticed my handwriting, he might only have seen a place where my name was mentioned. He did not critically check the authenticity of
that.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Maybe before you
continue, what is the term runyoro referring to?
*HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you Madam President for
asking for an explanation on the writing referred to.
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: There is a letter which was written by Hon. Deputy Minister Matemadanda addressed to Natpharm
Pvt. Ltd asking for medicines to be dispensed to hospitals in Lupane.
That is the letter I am referring to.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is the writing
you are talking about and the one which is being talked about by the Minister?
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: There is a letter which was signed by the Hon Minister asking for medicines from Natpharm to be dispensed to Lupane hospitals.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Since the Minister has
started answering, this issue is coming from a particular area and it is not a policy question. But anyway let me allow the Minister to explain.
*HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you once again Madam
President and thank you once again Hon. Sen. for continuing to ask something that is not correct. The paper that I saw which I think he is referring to, if it is hearsay, it was a response from the Minister of Health to my alleged request for medicines. If it was true, it is not bad to treat people before or after elections. People are supposed to be treated. We should actually be competing to get people treated. Is it a good thing to blame each other for getting people medicines to be treated before or after elections? Do you want to witness people die first? Thank you Madam President but I did not write any letter.
*HON. SEN. RAMBANAPASI: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans my question. We were the first people in Buhera to be war collaborators, running with food to the guerrillas and also being informants. But since 1980, what happened was whenever it was towards elections we were asked to go and open accounts with POSB but up to this day we have not yet received any payments.
* HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you Madam President. Let
me again thank the Hon. Sen. Rambanepasi for her question. I want to congratulate here that she is a war collaborator. That is the first thing that I want to appreciate about here besides that there is something wrong and that she made a contribution to what Zimbabwe is today. Let me answer knowing that she is representing others who are not here.
Let me answer the Hon. Senator saying that, the process of the vetting of the war collaborators is done by the Government through the process of Parliament. If someone is waiting at the bus stop and he says there is a bus which is coming when there is none coming, it depends on who told you; the person who saw the bus or heard the bus. The people who are telling people to open accounts, where were they coming from, which Government office were they coming from? If it was from private citizens who vetted each other and gave each other cards, it was not coming from Government. It was coming from individuals.
I cannot explain or talk about it. As I speak right now, the law to do with vetting of war collaborators has just come from Cabinet.
Whether there are by-elections or elections, we will tell you to be vetted.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NEMBIRE: Thank you Madam President. We have resettlement areas which are farming areas and are being destroyed by deforestation. I am asking the Minister how those areas can be put under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J.
MHLANGA): Thank you Madam President. All areas were under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders. The Government is planning that those areas come under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders. It might be late, but that is the plan.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We now have the Hon. Minister of Information Communication Technology and Courier Services, Minister Kazembe Kazembe.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: My question is directed to the Minister of State for Mashonaland Central. What is Government policy on panning along the Mazowe River near the border of Zimbabwe and Mozambique that is being destroyed?
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL (HON. MAVHUNGA): Thank you Madam President. I
believe this question is supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. I can say as a province, we are encouraging farmers who have farms along the river and those who are panning along the river that they stop that practice.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam
President. Allow me to ask the Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. What is Government policy towards companies like ECONET that do ecocash and do not warn people; they just shut down their network and it affects people. What is Government policy for people not to be affected to be are warned as they use phones to access money from banks when they travel? We saw that last week people had problems. Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Are you directing this
question to the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting
Services? I think that question should be directed to the Minister of
Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Madam President. Let
me thank the Senator for his question which is very important. No one is allowed to switch off without any reason. If there is a reason that they want to switch off their equipment they have to tell the public. What happened last week on Saturday is that they did not switch off deliberately but it was because of electricity. They use what they call a call switch at Willowvale. That is their network call for every service. They have backup, they have 700 KV generators and they have a second line with 500KV and batteries. They also have solar.
When they gave us their report, they said the first generators were not working. When there was power outage the second generators also failed to pick. The batteries work for a short time. Their machines are not supposed to be using generators. The generators are supposed to work for a short period but now they are working for longer periods. That is making them to break down. The computers work with temperature and when it heats up they switch off. When it is only solar working, it is not able to make these machines work. It switched off their call switch and that affected their services.
They tried to fix that problem by calling their MD who helped in fixing another generator. It was an emergency and that is why it took the whole day and the part was bought from outside the country to fix that generator. It was a very big problem. They did not do it deliberately.
*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. We always hear when ZANU-PF has its caucus meetings and their programmes are broadcasted on ZBC. Why is it not done for all political parties that they are able to announce their programmes at ZBC? When will there be reforms that all other political parties are given airtime on ZBC?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING
SERVICES (HON. DR. MUTODI): Thank you Madam President. I
want to thank the Senator for the question. ZBC is a commercial entity and all aired programmes are paid for. If ZANU PF has a programme which it wants aired on ZBC, ZANU PF call ZBC and book to air their programme. They pay the amount that is needed for the programme to be broadcast. If the money is not paid, the programme is not aired. We encourage all political parties to pay so that they are broadcast by ZBC. You only need to inform the ZBC and pay the money which is needed for the information to be broadcast. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, do you have gazetted prices? There is another party that tried to book with ZBC but the charges were too high. Is there a gazetted amount? I thank you.
HON. DR. MUTODI: I do not know the prices that are charged by ZBC but charges are done per hour or per minute. Those prices are similar to every client who want to be serviced by ZBC. When there is high demand, prices go higher but prices are similar to every client who wants service from ZBC.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, can we ask for an extension as per the Standing Order Rule 62 and we ask for 25.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. Minister, that letter which has been talked about, let us not hide because it came from you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is not a policy question Hon. Senator.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I have a policy question. I am only giving a background. Otherwise, he can hide again.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: No, you cannot say
that. I do not want to rule you out. Can you do it properly?
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Is it policy of Government to ask
Ministries to supply goods to a constituency where there is a by-election.
Examples are what happened in Lupane East, a letter written by the
Minister of Health. Besides that, we have witnessed food distribution to by-elections in Bikita East Ward thirty something. People were given food handouts during elections which to us is vote buying. Is it the policy of Government to vote buy during election time?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Madam
President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Komichi. I think the question of whether it is Government policy to distribute food and so forth cannot be answered by me. The question on whether medicines should be taken to places where there are elections again, may be answered by the Minister of Health, because in my personal capacity, like I have said, I have never generated a letter and I do not know how I can tell this honourable House that I did not.
Just for interest’s sake, we have seen a lot of designs and photo shopping including beheaded people. With this modern era, people can do anything. Now, I am seeing that I am being accused without proof and evidence because I am speaking as a Member who took oath that I did not generate the letter. My question is the issue to do with medicine being taken to an area where there is election must be directed to the Minister of Health that wrote the letter because it is not Matemadanda who wrote that letter. If it is a question that should be directed to Government, I do not speak for Government.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before I
recognise another Hon. Senator, I would like to remind Hon. Senators, tlet us stick to one language. If you are asking a question or the Ministers are responding to a question, we kindly ask you to stick to one language to make it easy for officers who transcribe. Do not hop from one language to the other.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity to ask my question which is directed to the Minister of War Veterans, Minister Matemadanda. Which steps are you taking as Ministry to look at the life of war veterans in terms of their welfare and how they are living with their families? They are living in deep poverty and their pensions are very low. What steps are you taking to take care of them as they are the ones who liberated this country.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Senator. The way the Hon. Senators today are feeling for the war veterans, I am please because I am one of the war veterans. Having said that Hon. Sen. Chabuka, I do not know whether you were in the House because this question was already raised by Hon. Sen. Shoko and it was responded to by the Minister of Defence very competently. I think it has been responded to.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Higher Education. When we compare our educations, the current education and our previous education, the current education seem to be lower than the previous one despite the fact that when somebody went to school those old days, we used to take less years but today, students are taking more time at school but they still have sort of lower quality of work. For example, in the building industry a person that was trained in the early 50s, if you get a job with somebody who has just come out of training today, there is a vast difference and you cannot compare it. What is the problem?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you very much Hon. President and thank you Hon. Sen. Our education has been having a design problem. We have very intelligent people but if people are not put at their right place, they will not perform. So, our education in terms of what people know, there is a lot of knowledge but there is very little skill which is being pursued. We are looking at the skill problem, that is exactly what we are trying to fix using the new policies.
I will not be able to say what people knew in the 50s was better than what people know now. I can say what people could do in the 50s, they could do it much more than what they knew. Now people know a lot. If you ask people what they know, they know a lot but what they can do is very little. What I am saying is that we have little movement that we have to do. It is a little turn that we will have to do and we will be exploded into a very positive resolution in terms of education. It is the doing which is the problem. The knowing is very high and the doing is very low. In the 50s, the doing was very high and the knowing was very low. That is how I compare them.
So, our policy is and with the help of Parliament and with your help basically is to say let us go for skills big time, because we have the knowledge and we are looking forward to a budget that is focused on those skills, because the design we have already done it. We call it Education 5.0 design where we say from idea to product and through the help of Parliament, we will be able to get there. I am sure that in our life time, we can enjoy this country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President. I do not know whether the Minister of Higher Education can respond to my question because it is for the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: He is not here because
we do not have the Leader of the House. I suggest that you put it down in writing so that it can be forwarded to the relevant Minister.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is
directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. There is a report which we are reading in the newspapers that there were cars of soldiers which were seen entering this country from South Africa. People panicked that these soldiers have come to attack us. I want to ask the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans to explain to this House whether it is true that there are soldiers who came from South Africa, what did they want here? It is our country and we want to know what was happening?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
WAR VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr.
President for the question by the Hon. Senator that he saw cars coming through the social media. They have not entered physically and they are on the social media. If these cars arrive physically we will tell you.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Local Government. I am saying as the Ministry, what is Government policy regarding the problems faced on water because the country has a lot of problems regarding water supplies?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think again
that question has been asked if my memory serves me right. It was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos and the Minister responded to that question. So can we have somebody else to fill the question?
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: My question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. When you look at the case involving war veterans, may you please explain the steps followed in the vetting of war veterans? We have these youngsters who went to war when they were very young. They left school before they could qualify but when they came back and needed to be compensated, do you segregate that somebody is married or somebody is single? Please explain?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr. President. I
am very grateful to Sen. Gweshe for the question she has posed regarding the vetting of war veterans. I am not very sure whether she is talking about the compensation of a dead war veteran, somebody who is alive, some war veteran who passed on before they could be vetted, married or single. May she please explain because I do not see where marital status comes in?
Let me just explain on the processes of vetting these war veterans. There is a clear cut process which is followed, especially when a war veteran died before they could be vetted. I know we face problems because of the changing situations, especially when you are vetting a war veteran who is alive or it is some war veteran who passed on before they could be vetted, married or single. May she please explain because I do not see where marital status comes in?
Let me just explain the process of vetting these war veterans. There is a clear cut process which is followed especially when a war veteran died before they could be vetted. I know we will face problems because of the changing situations especially when we are vetting a war veteran who is alive because they can testify as individuals but those who died during the war rely on relatives or friends who talk about that person. When we are talking about vetting, we need detailed information because if we just do it randomly and however we may think, we may have some people who connive to abuse the system by giving false witnesses on the status of the war veteran.
The other question you may ask is how much was given to that war veteran who died before vetting and whether he/she will be compensated at a similar level with other war veterans. The response is, when did that war veteran die and how did that war veteran die? In most cases, we are using a law which is used to compensate a war veteran who is still alive but we have asked for some amendments so that vetting is also done for war veterans who died before they could be vetted. We also wish that this House would support when we talk about those youngsters who were bombarded by the Smith regime in Chimoio, Tembwe, Nyadzonya, Jason Ziyapapa and all those other places where they are. If that is done, the war veterans will rest in peace. I am sure when that is brought up you are going to support such a Bill. May I remind the Hon. Sen that if they have a specific individual that they are referring to, they can put it in writing and forward it to the correct Ministry for vetting.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: My question is directed to
the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. What is Government policy regarding Government structures especially Government structures in district centres because when you look at the accommodation offered to district administrators, they are in a dilapidated state. Who is responsible for their upkeep and maintenance?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): We have not yet come across a problem of dilapidated structures and houses. So, I am asking the Hon. Member to kindly proffer that information if you have any particular structure which is dilapidated so that we can work on it. We are also encouraging the responsible Ministry to put lodgers in those houses that are not occupied so that they can be maintained.
*HON. SEN. KHUPE: This past Monday, the Committee on
SDGs moved around the country and in Mwenezi district, we saw some buildings which are being destroyed by white ants. We resolved that we could have somebody go and call the Minister to come to the areas and see firsthand. This was not only in Mwenezi but in Chivi also. As we speak, buildings are collapsing. The Minister has asked for names and we have given them to you.
*HON. MHLANGA: When we have been given names we will
be able to go and investigate as well as give proper information to this august House…
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Like has been
said, some of the questions which we have been on the Order Paper have been here since 2018 and this is really unfair. It is wrong and it has got to be corrected and we are going to direct the Clerk to write to the relevant authorities so that the responsible Ministers must come and clear these questions. So, your point and concerns Hon. Senators are noted.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
ASSISTANCE TO TSHOLOTSHO CYCLONE ELINE VICTIMS
- SEN A. DUBE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to advise the House on whether the Government has plans to assist people who were affected by Cyclone Eline in Tsholotsho to rebuild their houses considering that they have been living in make-shift shelters since 2016.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): I would like to inform the august House that we have built houses for the affected Tsholotsho through the Civil Protection Department. I am in the process of touring these Tsholotsho houses to ensure that they can then be given to the affected families. I thank you.
CONFLICTS REDUCTION ON BOUNDARIES BETWEEN
TRADITIONAL LEADERS
- SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to explain measures being taken to reduce conflicts in relation to boundaries between traditional leaders.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): Yes, the issues of conflicts are there in the traditional boundaries but we would like to suggest that these come in as individual cases so that each case is solved as it comes. I thank you.
ESTABLISHMENT OF INFORMATION CENTRES IN MT.
DARWIN
- SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services to state when information centres will be established in Mount Darwin to improve access to information by youths and school children.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
KAZEMBE): Hon. President, allow me to thank the Hon. Member once again. Let me begin by highlighting that establishment of community information centres which we call CICs is a national programme. The Ministry’s vision is to see CICs in all the administrative districts of the country and then cascade them to ward level. Once that is done, the youth and the school children will access the much needed information.
POTRAZ has partnered with ZIMPOST targeting the post offices that are all over the country, some of which are not being utilised. It is in these post offices that CICs are being established. In areas where there are no post offices we are deploying what we refer to as Containerised Village Information Centres (CVICs). CVICs wherever they were deployed are not yet functional because electricity is still to be connected.
Turning to your specific question Hon. Senator, in Mount Darwin there is a post office and in that post office a CIC has actually been set up. That CIC is not yet functional because the equipment is still to be installed. Procurement of computers is a challenge for now as you are aware of the national crisis of foreign currency. At the moment, there are 48 CICs which are still to be equipped with computers so that they become functional.
Just for your information as well Senator, at Karanda Mission which is also in Mt Darwin, a CVIC was also deployed and like I said earlier, on electricity is still to be connected. Let me also reveal this to you that under the current 100 day projects which commenced on 7 June
2019, completion of Karanda CVIC is one of POTRAZ’s targets, so we intend to finish within these 100 days.
It is our hope Mr. President, that by September this year the Senator will at least have one CIC that will be functional in Mt. Darwin and the one in Mt. Darwin Centre will also be equipped once computers are sourced. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: On a point of order. Mr. President, the Minister is referring to 100 days. What are those 100 days for? Can he clarify.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you President of the Senate and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for that question. Yes, Government has embarked on 100 day cycles during which we give ourselves targets as ministries to complete certain prescribed or determined targets. So, this particular project is among those projects that we have said to ourselves we need to complete in this 100 day cycle. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a
system of monitoring and evaluation and a planning tool.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Mr. President, it will help us if he explains to say my 100 days is starting from this date to this date so that after the 100 days we can ask him a question to say did you put those information centres in Mt. Darwin where Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi comes from because if he simply says 100 days in January next year he is going to say look, I said 100 days, the 100 days is today in January 2020. So, if he can explain those areas then we can ask him when 100 days is over.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is up to
the Minister really because it is a management tool they are using in Cabinet.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
TELEVISION, RADIO AND MOBILE PHONE SIGNALS IN
BORDER AREAS
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services to inform the House when local television, radio and mobile phone signals will become reachable in border areas of the country as people in these regions continue to use facilities of neighbouring countries such as South Africa, Botswana and Mozambique.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION,
PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR.
MUTODI): Thank you Mr. President, this question is touching on two ministries, so I will respond to my part and defer the other part to the Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services. The Minister is in the House.
On the issue of radio and television signal, I want to assure this House that a lot of work is being done by the Government to ensure that we migrate from an analogue system that we have been using to a digital system. The digital system will allow us to not only have more radio and television stations but it will also allow us to have clarity and coverage of all parts of the country, mainly the border areas which have been affected by loss or lack of signal. So, it will actually come with a better signal and also be able to cover all parts of the country; that is for the radio and television.
Also, I need to emphasise that ZBC is now on DTSV. So, the DSTV uses satellite technology which allows cross border transmission of television signal and radio signal. So you will find that you can watch television stations from South Africa while you are in Zimbabwe. You can actually watch Chinese television while you are in Zimbabwe because of the satellite technology. I want to believe the fact that ZBC
is on DSTV has also lessened the chances of it not being accessible to people living on the border areas.
On the issue of lack of communication, it is a concern to the Government that in some areas, in actual fact they do not even know who their President is, especially on the Zambian parts, on the
Mozambican side and so on because they are listening to news from Mozambique, Zambia, South Africa and Botswana. This is also being looked at by the Ministries of Security to ensure that our people can get the correct information about which country they are living in and who is their President and what are the programmes they must follow. This is something that is being prioritised by the Government and we expect that by the completion of the digitalisation programme we will be able to cover all parts of the country sufficiently.
I now defer the issue on mobile phone signals to the Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for asking such a pertinent question. Yes indeed, it is true that we do have areas along the borders where mobile connectivity is a challenge and not only those areas but we also have areas even inland where people do not have access to mobile connectivity. It is our intention to ensure that no one is left behind and everybody is connected. It is our mandate as Government but as you would appreciate, normally the infrastructure is provided by the service providers and in this case we are talking about the mobile network operators; Telecel, NetOne and Econet.
So ordinarily what they would do because these people are in business, they would not go where they feel it is not economically viable. Obviously, they look at the population density and the communication traffic that they are likely to get there. However, as
Government, it is now our mandate to ensure that we fill in that gap, we go there and we install these base stations to ensure that no one is left behind, everybody is connected.
As you would appreciate, currently as Government, we do not have the resources, but we have been trying through POTRAZ using the USF. To date, POTRAZ has already installed about 20 base stations using their own resources, but we have realised we cannot do it alone. So what we have now done is, we are actually seized with the matter. We have discussions around opening up and allowing private companies to come in and install the base stations on a BOT basis and then probably rent them out and also this is in view of our new regulation; that of infrastructure sharing. So, Mr. President Sir, very soon we will be floating tenders where we will be inviting private companies who are resourced to come in and fill in that gap and install base stations in those areas on a BOT basis. I thank you.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MANICALAND PROVINCE (HON. SEN. DR. GWARADZIMBA),
the Senate adjourned at Ten Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 30th July, 2019.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 17th July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON CANCER TREATMENT AND CONTROL IN
ZIMBABWE
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Thematic Committee on
Gender and Development on Cancer Treatment and Control in Zimbabwe.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
Cancer is set to overtake HIV and AIDS as the leading cause of death in Zimbabwe. The disease is often diagnosed late and with very few Oncologists in public hospitals, most cancer patients lose their lives prematurely. According to the Ministry of Health and Child Care, cancer remains a major cause of morbidity and mortality with over 5,000 new diagnosis and over 1,500 deaths per year1. The incidence of cervical cancer in Zimbabwe is reported to be 35 per 100,000 women compared to the global average of 152. Against this background, the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development resolved to conduct fact finding visits to assess the impact in the visited areas. Ten hospitals were visited including hospitals in Harare; Chitungwiza; Matabeleland North; Bulawayo; Gweru; Kwekwe; and Kadoma.
2.0 Objectives
2.1 To assess the provision of cancer services at hospitals focusing on diagnosis, radiotherapy and chemotherapy treatment; and
2.2 To ascertain adequacy of resources, infrastructure, manpower.
2.0 Methodology
On 28 January 2019, the Committee received oral submissions, from the Ministry of Health and Child Care, on cancer statistics, services and treatment challenges. The Committee also visited and toured cancer diagnosis and treatment facilities at hospitals on 4 March and 29 April 2019.
3.0 Background
According to Zimbabwe 2018 Human Papilloma Virus and Related Diseases Report, human papilloma virus (HPV) infection is now a wellestablished cause of cervical cancer and there is growing evidence of HPV being a relevant factor in other anogenital cancers as well as head and neck cancers. The World Health Organization (WHO) statistics predicted 13.2 million cancer related deaths worldwide by 2030, which is up from 7.6 million in 2008 when the last report was published.
Zimbabwe is among the top 10 countries with a huge cancer burden. Over 5000 new cancer cases are diagnosed in Zimbabwe annually. Due to under reporting there could be many more cases that are not captured by the routine National Health Information Systems. According to the Ministry of Health and Child Care, five common cancers in black Zimbabwean women are: (i) Cervical cancer 33,5 percent; (ii) Breast cancer 11,7 percent; (iii) Kaposi sarcoma 8,9 percent; (iv) Eye cancer 6,5 percent; and (v) Non-Hodgkin lymphoma 4,9 percent. On the same vein, five common cancers in black Zimbabwean men include Kaposi sarcoma at 20,8 percent; Prostate cancer 13,7 percent; Oesophageal cancer 6,3 percent; Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma 6,2 percent; and liver cancer 5,7 percent.
4.0 Findings of the Committee
4.1 High Incidences of Cancer
At all hospitals visited, the Committee noted that there were high incidences of cancer cases. At the West End Hospital (PSMI) in Harare, the Committee was informed that in 2018, the hospital had attended to 125 patients. The majority had their cancers at advanced stages and, as a result, 41 patients (30 percent) lost their lives. For the year 2018, Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals received 7000 cases with 2000 fatalities, representing 29 percent. At CITIMED Hospital, in
Chitungwiza, of the 838 cases that were screened since December 2018, 40 tested positive to VIAC and referred to specialists, with 21 women having undergone cryotherapy.
Cancer statistics at Victoria Falls Hospital was equally disturbing. The Committee was informed that out of 1098 screened in 2016, 189 tested positive to VIAC; of the 698 screened in 2017, 75 had cervical cancer; of the 2 102 screened in 2018, 54 tested positive to VIAC; and that as of April 2019, 559 had been screened and 49 tested positive for cervical cancer. At St Patrick Mission Hospital in Hwange District, the Committee was informed that in 2018, 18 cases of cancers were diagnosed, 8 had cervical cancer and 10 had other cancers. The
Committee was informed that at Mpilo Central in Bulawayo, from
January to April 2019, 769 cases of cancer referrals had been received.
At Kadoma General Hospital, the Committee was informed that in
2017, 1383 were screened for cancer and 114 tested positive; in 2018,
2558 were screened and 123 were found positive; whilst from January to April 2019, only 538 had been tested and 20 of them had tested positive to cancer. In all areas, cervical cancer was described as the leading
killer.
During oral submission to the Committee, the Ministry of Health and Child Care lamented that despite the fact that cancer has high incidences and is one of the main killer diseases, it remains a nonnotifiable disease.
4.2 Shortage of Skilled Medical Personnel at Hospitals
The Committee received reports, with concern, from the Zimbabwe National Cancer Registry (ZNCR) pertaining critical shortage of skilled personnel trained in cancer diagnosis and treatment. Cancer specialists were said to be only found at Mpilo Central Hospital in Bulawayo and Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals in Harare. In addition, the Committee noted with concern that at Victoria Falls Hospital, there was only oneVIAC trained nurse. When the nurse went on leave in 2017, VIAC department at Victoria Falls Hospital was closed for several months, denying poor cancer patients in the district diagnosis services, which they could only get in Bulawayo, 450 kilometers away. At Mpilo Hospital, a cancer referral for the whole of southern region of the country, the Committee was informed that there was no radiologist whose skills are critical in breast cancer mammography. As a result, the hospital had to outsource radiologist services from the private sector. This is expensive for patients. Similarly, the Committee was also informed that LEEP procedure could not be completed at Kwekwe
General Hospital since there was no laboratory specialist histology. Patients were therefore forced to take their samples to private hospitals for analysis at a cost of US$37, 00 which is beyond the reach of most ordinary people.
The freezing of posts in the public sector has resulted in an acute shortage of radiographers, particularly therapy radiographers, who are essential in fighting against the emerging threat of cancer and other conditions. There are less than 300 practicing radiographers in the country despite almost 40 students graduating every year from training centers. The Committee was informed by administration officials that Mpilo Hospital had received Treasury concurrence to fill 24 vacant posts for radiographers, but no applications were forthcoming. Bulawayo’s only government-employed radiographer who was based at Mpilo Central Hospital died in 2014, leaving only one based in Harare. To ameliorate the situation, the Committee was informed in all the submissions that, UNFPA continue to support the Ministry of Health and Child Care (MoHCC) to set up cancer screening and treatment centers, procurement of VIAC equipment, medical supplies, developing guidelines and training tools on screening and treating cervical cancer at public hospitals.
4.3 State of Radiotherapy Machinery and VIAC Equipment
The Committee was disturbed to note that of the five (5) radiotherapy machines, acquired in 2012 at US$10 million, three (3) at
Parirenyatwa (1 never commissioned) and two (2) (are at 95% commissioning) at Mpilo Central Hospital in Bulawayo, three (3) are down and the only operational machine was at Parirenyatwa. The Committee was informed that each of the machines can treat 70 patients per day. Due to breakdowns, Mpilo Central Hospital reported that it last offered radiotherapy in November 2018, forcing patients to travel to Harare.
However, even those machines in Harare were down at the time of the visit. The Committee was informed that patients who miss radiation therapy sessions during cancer treatment have an increased risk of the disease returning, even if they eventually complete their course of radiation treatment.
The Committee noted with concern that one (1) of the two (2) machines, Unique Linear Accelerator, at Mpilo Central Hospital, had not been installed and commissioned since 2012, though the installation commenced in 2018. Due to long period of non-functionality of some parts, need replacement before being commissioned. The Committee was told that each of the radiography cancer machine requires at least US$53 000 for repairs and service. The machines cannot be repaired by any other companies without service warrant.
The Committee was further informed that upon payment of US$2 million to the manufacturer, Varian Company based in Switzerland, the company would offer repair services any time of breakdown and the payment can be done over a period of two years. The Committee was told that the main cause of radiotherapy cancer machinery breakdowns was frequent power outages. To avoid these costly constant breakdowns, the Committee was advised that the machines can be protected through the Load Balancing Interconnect (LBI) or the Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS), which can be procured at an approximate price of US$500 000. The Committee was pleased to note that at Mpilo Central Hospital, UPS installation was already under way.
The Committee also observed with deep concern that having all the five (5) radiotherapy cancer machines in Harare and Bulawayo cause congestions at these central hospitals since all cancer referrals would be directed to either Harare or Bulawayo. On that note, the Committee was told during deliberations in Kadoma that cancer patients find it not only expensive to travel to either Harare or Bulawayo but also that due to congestion, booking for cancer services is extremely long-drawn-out and
difficult.
VIAC and LEEP procedures at a single visit for prevention of cancer of the cervix, conducted at district hospitals and other health centres, is supposed to be accessible to the majority of women from all walks of life. However, the Committee noted with deep concern that most of the required equipment, initially donated by UNFPA, at district hospitals visited, were obsolete and constantly broke down.
At Kwekwe General Hospital, the Committee was shown old laptops, camera for VIAC and a broken down goose lamp and the nurse had to use an ordinary torch for the VIAC procedure. The Committee was told in Kadoma, that to improve efficiency and cancer screening turnaround time, the x-ray machine should be equipped with four (4) additional computer monitors and Wi-Fi so that radiologists can read and interpret x-rays from their various stations.
4.4 Funding on Cancer Treatment Services
The Committee learnt that there are different types of cancer treatment which are surgery, radiotherapy, chemotherapy, hormonal therapy and palliative care. There were said to be beyond reach of ordinary citizens as they are unable to purchase the drugs required. During oral submission, the Ministry of Health and Child Care indicated that medicines are costly for patients, especially for those whose condition was at an advanced stage. The Ministry also indicated that prostate cancer screening was very costly for ordinary citizens. The
Committee was further informed by the Ministry of Health and Child Care that cancer, which is taken care of under non-communicable disease, was only allocated $ 50 000 in 2018 budget for awareness campaigns and $75 000 under 2019 budget.
5.0 Committee's Observations
From the submissions made to your Committee and tour of cancer treatment facilities at ten hospitals, the following observations were made.
5.1 In Zimbabwe, cancer is now the second biggest killer disease after HIV and AIDS. Official health figures indicate that the disease is killing more than, 1 500 people every year. Out of this figure, 80 percent of the victims visit health institutions late for treatment when the disease is already at an advanced stage. Oncologists in Zimbabwe attributed this to either poverty or lack of knowledge about the disease.
5.2 Many people still shy away from early screening and only do so in advanced stages of the disease when not much can be done to reverse the effect. In addition, cancer treatment and management is expensive and patients have to foot other ancillary costs such as food, travelling and accommodation because treatment services are centralised at major hospitals. Centralisation of cancer services in Bulawayo and Harare has led to patients incurring extra costs for accommodation and transport.
5.3 Hospitals-community engagement programmes with regards to cancer awareness campaign remains generally low in provinces and districts, yet through cancer awareness campaign programmes and mobile VIAC services, most cancers can be prevented.
5.4 The challenges faced in preventing, screening and treating cancer are many and they include lack of human capital and material resources in the health sector. On the other hand, the public seeking such services grapple with financial and accommodation costs as most of the treatment facilities are centralised at Parirenyatwa Group of Hospital in Harare and Mpilo Hospital in Bulawayo.
5.5 While in many developed countries, notification of cancer cases is compulsory, in developing countries such as Zimbabwe, notification of cancer is not yet mandatory. The Committee realise the importance of notification in as much as it assists in the prevention and control of the disease, and reduce the burden imposed on the fiscus.
5.6 The Committee observed with concern that awareness campaign programmes and care for prostate cancer, skin cancer related to albinism were found to be relatively lower as compared to cervical cancer programmes and services such as VIAC, yet incidences of these other cancers are equally high.
6.0 Recommendations
Cancer is curable and when quickly detected, treatment is possible and death can be reduced. However, most cancer patients die because of late detection and unaffordability of treatment costs. Some even deteriorate during months of waiting for treatment. The Committee therefore, recommends the following measures to improve citizen’s access to cancer diagnosis, treatment and control services in Zimbabwe.
6.1 Apart from the need to adhere to the 15 percent Abuja target for the health Ministry, the Committee recommended the need for alternative financing for non-communicable diseases such as cancer given the specialised procedures and associated equipment. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should set up a Cancer Fund by
31 December 2019.
6.2 The Ministry of Health and Child Care should urgently facilitate stakeholders review and finalisation of the draft Non-
Communicable Diseases (NCD) Policy by the end of September 2019.
6.3 The Ministry should decentralise radiotherapy and chemotherapy facilities from Harare and Bulawayo to other provinces and districts of the country for cancer diagnosis, treatment and control by 31 December 2019.
6.4 The shortage of cancer doctors and nurses continue to derail treatment and care for cancer patients. The Ministry of Health and Child Care, in conjunction with universities and major hospitals, should intensify training and development of medical human capital, including VIAC in-training, post basic nursing training, oncologists and ensure that they are retained in public hospitals. This planning should be reflected in the 2020 Budget for the Ministry of Health and Child Care.
6.5 Given that more than 80 percent of cancer cases are only diagnosed at a very late stage, the National Cancer Registry and the Ministry of Health and Child Care, in conjunction with key cancer stakeholders, should roll out extensive outreach programmes akin to those of HIV and AIDS. Funding for those activities should be reflected in the 2020 Budget for the Ministry.
6.6 Considering that the causes of cancer are multifaceted in nature, its prevention and control demands a multi-sectoral approach. In that regard, the Ministry of Health and Child Care should spearhead the creation of Inter-Ministerial Committee on Non-Communicable Diseases, and this should be in place by 31 December 2019.
6.7 The Ministry of Health and Child Care should, in the 2020 Budget, prioritise improvement of infrastructure and support services at all hospitals, including accommodation for medical staff, ambulance services, communication, and transport services.
6.8 That cancer treatment should be subsidised. Free screening currently services offered to cervical cancer should be extended to other cancers, by 31 December 2019.
6.9 There is need for a Cancer Act that will address, among other issues, access to cancer treatment at all district hospitals and creation of cancer fund.
6.10 The radiotherapy and chemotherapy machines in Bulawayo and Harare together with x-ray machines, in particular Nuclear Machines in Bulawayo which requires gamma cameras and service repair should be fully repaired and commissioned by end of June 2019. All chemotherapy and radiotherapy machines which will be repaired and installed should be connected to UPS to protect them from constant and costly breakdowns due to power cuts.
7.0 Conclusion
It can be concluded that currently, the status of cancer management in Zimbabwe is still dire. Early detection, diagnostic, radio- and chemotherapy and palliative care are constrained by a number of challenges. Cancer treatment services are centralised in Harare and Bulawayo, posing challenges related to transport and accommodation costs. Frequent breakdown of radiotherapy and chemotherapy machines, due to power outages, exposes patients’ erratic treatment which makes the virus resistant to medication. Additional challenges include a critical shortage of pathologists, radiologists and surgical oncologists. With regards to treatment costs, it was concluded that many cancer patients, cannot afford fees for services such as screening, biopsy, radiotherapy and chemotherapy, and palliative care medication.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me the opportunity to add my voice on the report which was presented to this august House by Hon. Ncube. Let me start by saying the presentation from the Thematic Committee gives a dire situation on what is bedeviling the health delivery system in our country. Let me just zero in on the subject at hand, which is cancer treatment in Zimbabwe. I think a lot of challenges have been raised through the report.
Unfortunately, nothing has been done by our Government to ensure that people who are affected by cancer diseases are helped.
Let me say one of the things which actually affects or drains our fiscus in the health sector is treatment of cancer because most of the patients present very late. When they present very late it is very costly. Unfortunately at that stage nothing can be done. We would have lost the chance to intervene early. So I think it is imperative on the Government to start advocacy and make awareness to the populace on the importance of early screening because we can do a lot through early screening or detection, but once those cancers are diagnosed at a late stage which is unfortunately, the situation in our country, we run the run the risk of causing unnecessary costs and unnecessary loss of life but let me say why are we so behind in this cancer management in this country. I think the issue is about; first of all, manpower. We can talk of all the necessary things which need to be put in place but if we have the requisite skills, we will be able to deliver whatever we plan for. I am sure we heard from the Hon. Member that we have got very acute shortages of manpower. Cancer treatment is not an ordinary disease, it needs skilled specialists, on the side of doctors. You need to be trained as an ordinary doctor then you go on for five years to be trained as a specialist in chemotherapy.
Unfortunately, our Government over the years has never invested in that skills development. That aspect is mainly on tertiary institution but screening is affordable. Early screening depending on whether we develop the necessary skills base can even be done by primary care nurses in rural district health centres. The unfortunate situation at the
moment…
An Hon. Senator’s cellphone having been ringing.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order!
Hon. Senators, you are reminded once again to switch off your cell phones or put them on silence.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: I was just talking about the need for early screening and early detection and the skills gap. It is not that we are poor but it is that we are poor in policy implementation or policy formulation. Cancer screening at rural health centres can be done at the lowest level of our health delivery system by a primary care nurse provided the necessary skills and training are given. So, we urge and commend the Committee for raising that need for the State to fund the training and manpower development at that early stage because it will actually assist us in detecting cancer at an early stage and avoid unnecessary costs and loss of lives.
With regards to equipment, one of the perennial problems of our Government is the lack of investment in health which is a very sad scenario because we know health of individual citizens is guaranteed in our Constitution. Everyone would hope that that is the first investment which we should do, if we are actually to get to where we thrive to get as a nation. We can never reach a middle income country in 2030 if we do not invest in the health delivery system or health of our people. So, I think, first things first. It is time that we focus and as Senators who represent the people, we start to advocate for proper and adequate funding. Right now, when we are seated here, we feel we are healthy but let me just scare you a little bit. The qualification age for Senators is 40 years and cancers start at 40, so about 30% of us will actually die of cancer and most of us will be unable to fund ourselves. So, I think it is better we advocate for better delivery so that when we are affected, then we will be able to get treatment.
I am sure most of us have heard the misfortune of nursing or having a relative who had a cancer. It is the most expensive treatment you can ever imagine. If you have got a house, you can sell all the houses but it will not be enough. So, just imagine for the ordinary men in Muzarabani, what will they do? People are dying outside there. As Hon. Members, I think this is the first thing which we have to advocate for. Our primary duty as Members of the august House is to protect and promote the implementation of the national charter, the Constitution. these issues which we are discussing are one of the many fundamental rights which we should be entitled to as long as we are labeled citizens of this country.
It is very sad to note from the report we received from the Hon. Senator that we spend a lot of money, an amount like USD10 million to buy equipment but to date that equipment is not yet fully installed. Unfortunately, with the evolution of technology, most of them are overtaken by event which means that money is put to waste. We also need to improve; this to me shows the lethargy of our governance system in the health delivery system which I think the responsible authorities must make sure that we provide proper governance in health delivery system because it is a waste of the tax payers’ money and when people are dying, we start repairing machinery which has never worked because of poor, slow, lethargic implementation of policies.
One of the most disturbing issues which was raised by the Hon.
Member was the impact of power on the health delivery system. Unfortunately, at the moment, we are in an epidemic of power shortages which if we do not address urgently, will cause devastating effects. These machines are very sensitive and the frequent power outages cause a lot of damages, some of them to the central mother body of the computers to the extent that the machine become useless. So it is very sad that as a nation, we do not have strategic institutions like hospitals having power grids designated for them so that when we have these power load shedding activities, these institutions are not affected. We are currently experiencing one of our worst power problems but you find out that our hospitals are dark which is very unfortunate. That I think we could also solve as a matter of policy. It would also help safeguard our investment especially these sensitive investments which probably we can probably buy after every 10 years.
So, to sum up Mr. President, I think there is need for us as legislators who come from all the four corners of this country to start to advocate for the need and importance of early cancer detection and screening. I am sure the Hon. Member mentioned prostate cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer but those are just but a few of the many cancers which can afflict people. One of the most common one is the GI cancer, that is cancer of the digestive system which is very common and which can, if detected at an early age, save a lot of money and of course life. However, the moment they are diagnosed late in most of our population when they present to hospital, unfortunately, it will be at an advanced stage where nothing can be done but just a drain on fiscus and they cause a lot of distress to the affected family. So, there is need for us to make sure that these services should be promoted.
Lastly, I think we have a mantra of saying health for all but we cannot have health for all when it is not available, accessible and affordable. If we are called a developed country, one of the things people look at is the health of your people. So, as such, as a nation, we run into the risk of getting onto the list of the least developed countries if we do not address the need to fund the health of our nation. So, it goes without saying Mr. President that the Abuja Declaration is the minimum requirement which any nation which is serious about looking at its citizens should satisfy. It has no absolute figure but it has got a percentage of your budget which is 15%, even if we say we are poor. I do not see why we cannot achieve the Abuja 15% Declaration giving flimsy reason of saying we do not have resources. It is not an absolute figure, they say if you have got $10 take 15% of that and give it to health. So, the reason that we do not have resources, I think it is lack of commitment or even lack of understanding of what drives a nation. The nation is driven by its people and those people have to be healthy. It is the duty of the State and everyone responsible to make sure that we make our citizens healthy. Thank you – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President. First and
foremost, I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Ncube who tabled the report. I am grateful to the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development that conducted the visits all over the country, visiting 10 hospitals. Cancer is not a cheap disease. You have heard that when you are in this august House, there could be two or three amongst us who are suffering from cancer but they are not aware of it because cancer is not painful. Once cancer becomes painful, it will be all over the body. It is quite painful to hear that such a disease has decimated the population. In fact it is the second in terms of fatalities coming on second to HIVAIDS in terms of the deaths to the Zimbabwean population.
In that regard, what is Government saying? I remember last
Parliament, machinery was bought at Mpilo and Parirenyatwa. What is painful is that there is no one who is capable of servicing or knowledgeable about the operations of those machines. There is only one radiographer countrywide if I heard them well. I heard that the Government has also frozen posts for radiographers. Do they not realise that this is not a good situation. I believe that the Ministry of Health should put the issue of cancer as top priority. A state of emergency should be declared so that other countries can come in and help us to alleviate the cancer scourge.
Mr. President, we can say that breast cancer and cervical cancer is killing women but men are also suffering from prostate and colon cancer. If scrutinised, many people have succumbed to cancer illnesses. Once again I want to thank the Committee for a job well done. It has become clear that Mpilo and Parirenyatwa Hospitals cannot treat all cancer patients. In fact, money is not easy to come by. It is difficult for me to come from Gokwe all the way to either Mpilo when referred for cancer treatment and upon getting there, I am told the machine has not been serviced and that there is only one radiographer. Can we not see that we are putting a burden on the populace? A lot of people go back home and look for herbs that are useless in terms of cancer treatment up until they die. It is my plea that I want to make especially to the Minister of Health that he should treat cancer issues seriously.
Furthermore, cancer as we all know it, its treatment is expensive. It has been reported that the machines at Mpilo and Parirenyatwa are not functioning properly. What this means is that a lot of patients are going to the private sector and people are paying through the nose. You would sell a house so that you get treated and remain alive but others will surrender to their fate until they die because cancer treatment is very expensive. Why do we not service the machinery that we have or have it repaired so that those who would be referred to Parirenyatwa and Mpilo respectively may be treated.
Mr. President, from the report, it has emerged that it is difficult for patients to be treated. The Ministry should have qualified personnel to operate machines. As the august House, let us help each other to improve the health of the Zimbabwean population. I thank you.
HON. SEN. DR. SEKERAMAYI: I want to take this opportunity
to thank Hon. Sen. Ncube for introducing the report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on cancer treatment and control in Zimbabwe. Cancer is one of the most serious and dreaded diseases, not only in Zimbabwe but in the world as a whole. In our situation, because of our stage of development, literacy and so forth, there was a time when those afflicted by cancer whether it is of the eye or of the colon, people would say aroiwa. There was no early diagnosis. It is important in my view to have facilities at the various hospitals, be it central hospital, provincial hospital or district hospital where we have facilities and personnel who can diagnose cancer at an early stage. We are currently obviously facing a shortage of manpower as other Hon. Members have said but this is not the permanent state of affairs. We should be in a position to deliberately train, develop professionals in the diagnosis and treatment of cancer to take care of our population. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – The machines which we have had at Mpilo and Parirenyatwa Hospitals, yes they are old, some of them have broken down but by coincidence, His Excellency the President, over the last couple of weeks has actually been paying attention to this aspect. Equipment has come from India and so forth. So the thrust to equip our hospitals with the most modern up to date equipment is there and when we have got that equipment, we must obviously train competent personnel to mann that equipment.
It has also been said the treatment of cancer is very expensive. I would really recommend that once a Zimbabwean has been diagnosed with cancer, whatever type of cancer it is, I think treatment should be free – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – If you are coming from the rural areas and you are told you have got cancer and you must now pay for it, you literally sell mombe dzako dzese. If you are in the urban areas, some people have said you would sell your house but it does not mean that after selling the house or mombe dzako wapona, you will still be unwell. So we should persuade the Ministry of Health to adopt a policy where the treatment for cancer is free of charge. That would help a lot of people because people will stay at home not because they are feeling well but they say I have no money to pay. So it is one of those diseases which I believe should be looked at very seriously and consideration should be given to free cancer treatment.
As I have said, the environment is paying attention to the health sector and I am sure when the Minister comes here and report to the President, that which should be available in Zimbabwe will be procured and the personnel trained to use that equipment. Thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Ncube for moving such an important motion on cancer through her report. It is true that cancer is one of the most killer diseases especially in Zimbabwe. Let us remind each other that when HIV/AIDS emerged, it took us a very long time to react to curb the spread of the virus but cancer is even more dangerous than HIV and it is killing a lot of people. HIV is now just as good as flue. If I am HIV positive and stick to my treatment, I can live a normal life but we still put a lot of emphasis on HIV/AIDS. HIV policy in this country is very clear and robust. The general population is now aware of the causes, how to manage it and to live with it comfortably…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Let me
remind you Hon. Sen. Komichi, the transcribers find it very difficult to transcribe in two different languages. Avoid as much as possible to code switch languages.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President for the
guidance. My appeal is to have awareness about cancer so that people are well informed about the causes and how they can prevent it. I personally know that cancer is there and is killing people but I do not know what causes cancer, how I can prevent it or how I can live long with it. So I am appealing to the Minister of Health and those entire organisations which assist to educate people on causes of cancer, prevention and how to manage it.
Some are technologically advanced and they can use Google to get tips but the rest cannot help themselves because they do not have access to that information on Google. So, policy on awareness should be available to the people. I also feel that Government is reluctant to take action. It is useless to act after people have already died or are dying, it will be too late. The cost will be huge for the Government, and with this economy of ours we might fail to curb its spread. As it is now, most deaths are caused by cancer, which means that cancer is spreading like veld fire. As Government and us as Senators, we should also assist in educating the people so that they come to understand that cancer really exist and it is clear that there is no cure as of now.
The issue that equipment worth US$10 million which was not commissioned is painful. It is painful because the country spends such large sums of foreign currency to waste. Government should have taken strong measures against the officials of that Ministry because they slept on duty. Looking at the time we have had cases of cancer, we appeal to the Ministry of Health to have a policy to train cancer doctors for free, a policy which is clear to everyone. There is need to put a budget for that training. Even if personnel needs to be trained outside this country, money should be availed for them to go to India so that we can have specialists on cancer treatment because this disease will devour us all.
I support all those who spoke before me who said that cancer treatment should be subsidised by Government because many people are dying. Where we come from even in urban centres people die in pain because they cannot afford the drugs which ease the pain. Cancer treatment is expensive and so, we should work together as Government and make sure that cancer is put under control. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this debate which was raised by Hon. Sen. Ncube and seconded by Hon. Sen. Rambanepasi. I would like to talk about this cancer issue. You find that person is serious and tomorrow they are dead. People do not know what is happening concerning cancer. People are ignorant of cancer and allege superstition. Even with esophagus, cancer people allege superstition.
We lack knowledge on cancer as said by Hon. Sen. Komichi. May our people be concientised on these particularly in our constituencies in the rural areas. The people in the urban areas know because they have access to the media but if you go to the rural areas they do not know about cancer or what it is exactly. If people know that you have cancer, they allege that one is promiscuous. We lack information on that and we need people to go around homesteads conscientising people on cancer so that people are taught properly.
It is scary to hear that about 5 000 people have died per year from cancer mostly because people delay in getting medical attention. In 2007, I was in hospital and a lady was admitted who was in serious pain. She lied that she was suffering from a headache but from the smell that was being emitted from her body you could tell that something was really wrong. She was very sick and after two hours she passed on. If people maybe concientised probably we may have less deaths from cancer. Such concientisation should be taken to the rural areas where people are ignorant.
People should be taught about the cancer of the esophagus. In my ward, there are two people who died from that disease. Their treatment was very expensive and ended up receiving home-based care. Sometimes the doctors will be on strike or they are simply not there or there is no machinery. Again, women are affected by breast cancer. Someone once told me that if you put money in your brassieres you will get cancer. May people be concientised up to ward level so that they know how to handle the situations.
We hear that there is only one radiographer in the country. That is a very bad situation because if I need attention from such a person, I will have to part with a lot of money coming to Harare and upon arrival, I will find that the person is on leave. People are not dying from the diseases but due to negligence on the part of Government. We should conscientise patients not to default on their medication as is happening with HIV throughout all the stages. We therefore request Government to put its mind on that matter so that we have machinery at the hospitals. If I go to a radiographer and hear that I have cancer but I do not have any information pertaining to that. As Government, we should not stress our people but we should attend to them so that they get treatment in time. I thank you.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th July, 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I rise to move the motion standing
in my name that this House:
RECALLING that child marriages were a rare occurrence before
Zimbabwe’s independence;
NOTING that the extended family, community leadership and members used to play a critical role of inculcating good morals and values in children, a culture which minimised child marriages; CONCERNED by the disintegration of the extended family unit and the community social moral fabric resulting in increased number of juveniles entering into marriage partnerships with adults;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Government in collaboration
with other stakeholders including traditional and religious leaders to vigorously enforce the law against offenders engaging in child marriages and inculcate cultural values that ultimately discourage and bring to an end all forms of child marriages.
HON. SEN. THUTHU: I second.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Mr. President, child marriage also
referred to as early marriages is any marriage where at least one of the parties is under 18 years of age. The overwhelming majority of child marriages both formal and informal involve girls under 18 year old, although at times their spouses are also under age. A child marriage is considered as a form of forced marriage given that one of the parties has not expressed their full, free and informed consent. Child marriages were a rare occurrence before independence because the age of majority was 21 years.
Mr. President, in the 19th Century, most people used to live as nuclear and extended families. Parents and adults used to treat each child as their own and show them the right path when they go astray. Aunties and uncles used to teach children many good values, among them not to indulge in sex before marriage. This helped them to be developed into fully grown and mature adults, and helped to prevent early marriages. They also taught what is expected of them when they got married, that is the value of marriage to prevent broken homes.
Mr. President, the disintegration of extended family unit and the community social moral fibre resulted in increased numbers of juveniles entering into marriage partnership with adults. Statistics of child marriages are disturbing. Around the world, one in five girls are married before they mature. It is said over 250 million women alive today were married as children. In sub-Saharan Africa, about one in four girls married before the age of 18. Statistics show that African nations account for 17 of the 20 countries with the highest rate of child marriage globally.
In Zimbabwe, Cluster Indicator Survey Mix of 2014 indicated that 60% of women aged between 18 and 24 had sexual intercourse before the age of 18 years. Currently, 31% of girls under the age of 18 are married. Of these, 4% were married under 15 years of age. There is often a substantial age difference between men and their spouses with the 2014 data indicating that the percentage of young women aged 15 – 19 years who are married or in union and whose spouse is ten or more years older was 19.9%. The unmet need for family planning services amongst girls is 17.1%, - significantly higher than the unmet need among women of child bearing age overall.
Mr. President, child marriage is not uniformly prevalent in Zimbabwe. Prevalence is highest in Mashonaland Central with 50% followed by Mashonaland West with 42%, Masvingo 39%,
Matabeleland South 27%, Harare 19%, Matabeleland South 18% and
Bulawayo 10%. Urgent action is needed to prevent thousands of young girls today from being married in the next decade. If the present trends continue, 246 000 of young girls born in Zimbabwe between 2005 and 2010 will be married before the age of 18 by the year 2030.
Mr. President, many factors interact to place a girl at risk of early marriages including poverty, the perception that marriage will provide protection, social and patriarchal norms, customary or religious laws that condone the practice, weak enforcement of laws, inadequate legislative framework and week civil registration system, peer pressure where children want to experiment what others are doing and end up doing wrong things.
Mr. President, the impact of child marriage is devastating among other things, child marriage results in the following; higher than average, maternal mobility and mortality rates for 15 to 19 year olds, higher infant mortality among their children, increased prevalence of HIV, limited participation in development, limited decision making in relation to their own lives, weaker economic indicators and ability to climb out
of poverty, loss of educational opportunities and social isolation and restricted social mobility.
Zimbabwe has committed itself to eliminate early child and forced marriage by the year 2030 in line with goal number 5 of the sustainable development goals. Zimbabwe has adopted a progressive Constitution which enshrines gender equality and which provides for justifiable rights. There is an elaborate array of children’s rights in the
Constitution. In addition Section 78 of the Constitution, Marriage Rights sets a minimum age for marriage at 18 and prohibits forced marriage. It states, “no person shall be compelled to marry against their will, Section 261 of the Constitution requires the State to take appropriate measures to ensure that no marriage is entered into without the free and full consent of the intended spouses.
Section 22 of the Constitution, requires that the State to take measures to ensure that children are not pledged into marriage. In January 2016, the Constitutional Court ruled that marriage Act which allowed girls as young as 16 to be married with the consent of their parents was unconstitutional and recognised 18 years as the legal age of marriage, after pressures from various international organsiation.
This has confirmed that an overhaul of all marriage laws is required to harmonise with the Constitution. It is vital to note that gaps still exist; laws pertaining to marriage in Zimbabwe remain discriminatory against girls, for instance the Marriage Act allows girls aged 18 to marry while the minimum age for boys is 18. The Customary Marriages Act does not specify the minimum age of marriage. The Government is yet to adopt legislation which harmonizes marriage, family and child laws with the Constitution and with the International Treaty obligations.
As Parliament we must continue to insist on at least amendments to the marriage Act and Customary Marriage Act as a matter of urgency pending a complete review of marriage laws to cover all forms of marriage. It is encouraging to note that the proposed Marriage Bill of 2017 seeks to harmonise marriage laws in Zimbabwe and bring the governance of marriage under a single Act.
Mr. President, this problem requires a multi-sectoral approach where all concerned people are involved, because the high prevalence of child marriage in Zimbabwe is inconsistent with the country’s growth and the development aspirations. The Government of Zimbabwe and its various arms such as the Ministry of Women’s Affairs, Community, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, Ministry of Youth, Arts and Recreation and Ministry of Public Service Labour and Social Welfare have a duty to use practical and effective legal policy and pragmatic measures to hold any phenomenon that destabilises the health, education and economic wellbeing and the general security of its citizens and to further the development of girls in particular. Child marriage is an impediment to development and appropriate action is required in line with the human rights commitments and the rights of children.
Mr. President, as we know traditional leaders used to play a pivotal role in our communities. They should be capacitated so that they resume their traditional roles which help to instill good values, especially to the youth. Mr. President, Zimbabwe is a Christian country. Religious organisations draw the largest gatherings who attend church services of different denominations. If the church leaders can be educated on the effects of child marriages and how to eradicate them, this could help to reduce child marriages.
I call upon this august House to ensure the Bill prohibits and eliminate child marriages and also eliminates all harmful practices and forced marriages in line with the SADC law for eradicating child marriage and protecting children already in marriage. Furthermore, the
CEDAUR Committee in its concluding observations to Zimbabwe’s
state report in 2012 in relation to family and marriage made recommendations to the Government. It made recommendations to amend marriage laws in order to eliminate discrimination and ensure equitable sharing of matrimonial property by women.
We need to insist that these and other clauses are included in the forthcoming Bill. I think if these measures are implemented holistically by all, we will end child marriages and protect them from this malpractice. I thank you – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]
I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th July, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY’S
BILATERAL VISIT TO THE SHURA ADVISORY COUNCIL IN
DOHA
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Adv. J. F. Mudenda’s Bilateral Visit to the Shura Advisory Council held in Doha, Qatar.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th July, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 44TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF SADC
PARLIAMENTARY FORUM
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 44th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th July, 2019.
MOTION
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN TOWNS
AND GROWTH POINTS
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the perennial shortages of clean and potable water in most towns and growth points.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the opportunity to add my voice on the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Wunganayi. I want to talk on the issue of water crisis in Matabeleland South. We are in Region 5 where we get very little rainfall. We are like people living in a desert who put water in jojo tanks. Most dams are dry due to siltation. We appeal to Government to assist in desilting the dams so that we can harvest water especially this year with the drought, even our livestock are dying.
If we look in front of us, there is water because water is life but how many people can afford this water. We cannot spend the whole day in this House without water. In rural areas, women have to walk for 10 to 20 km in search of water. They have to carry some water for them to drink on the way to fetch water. Even if you want to drill boreholes in Matabeleland, you can go for 90 metres without getting water. Also in urban areas like Bulawayo, there are water challenges. Recently, there is a case that was reported on the news whereby some people would fetch water in areas that are dirty and some of the areas, the wells are secured using a slab. In that same area, it was reported that there was a child who drowned but was rescued before death.
We need water for many purposes; some people no longer bath because there is no water. I am okay here at Parliament because I have access to water. If you go to Matabeleland women there put face powder without washing because they cannot get water but bathing is essential for everyone. I would like to appeal to the responsible Minister to come out on the open and appeal for assistance from well-wishers so that equipment can be donated which can drill boreholes in
Matabeleland. If assistance for HIV/AIDS was secured, why not also declare this water crisis a disaster so that aid can come from well- wishers. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to debate on this very important motion. I want to thank
Hon. Sen. Wunganayi for bringing such a very important motion.
Zimbabwe’s water remains very poor in both urban and rural areas. More than 18% of the population does not have access to improved drinking water sources and 56% do not have access to improved sanitation facilities. According to UNICEF, over 60% of the rural water supply infrastructure in Zimbabwe is in a state of despair and as a result, many boreholes and wells contain non-portable water and are in need of decontamination.
In each urban area now, the tapes have no water at all, which is why we have seen councillors and Members of Parliament going around even in our urban set up. In our high density suburbs, drilling boreholes,– especially this year with the drought, it is really an issue and everyone is suffering right now. I was talking to some councillors in Bulawayo; Bulawayo is totally dry; Gweru is totally dry. I was amazed the other time when we went to Masvingo, we passed through Chevron Hotel and the people there were using bucket system. They were going outside – there was something like a tape outside and I am talking about a town; Masvingo urban whereby you go to a hotel and you actually need a bucket to go around for water. That is a sad situation.
As a country, as Local Government, I think we could have planned early because when I was talking to some of the councillors, they were saying that the infrastructure that they are using; the pipes that they were using were put during the Smith regime, meaning to say that for the past 38 years, we have never as Government; as Local Government considered that especially with the population because a lot of our people have left rural areas and they are coming to urban centres. So it means that the population has gotten bigger as the years went by which is why we should have considered making sure that our infrastructure is ready for the population.
I am from Zvishavane, I remember our councilor, the water started coming out I think brown when the MSU students moved to Zvishavane. I am sure everyone knows that the campus was moved and I think we
got over 20 000 students, if not more but because the town was not ready for those students, the water siltation started giving us problems and you could not drink it. The local councillors and the local authorities were complaining to say they do not have enough water they do not have foreign currency as well to actually buy chemicals. So, as Government, we should always plan ahead.
The tape water as well is not safe to drink in most areas in Zimbabwe, which is why right now we have drinking water here but looking at it, we have purified spring water that we drink all the time but how many people can afford this water? I really have to say that it is only a few people who can afford this water. The rest of the Zimbabwean population cannot afford this water so they end up just drinking any water. This is why you saw that in our country we had cholera; 2008 to 2009 and recently and a lot of people died. You can see that this water situation in our country is a problem and it is something that Government has to take as a priority.
Mr. President Sir, how can we keep our water clean? We must not invade wetlands. Our local councils have allowed people to build on wetlands. Maybe if we had to stick to the plans of the cities, we could avoid some of the problems that we are having now where we have no water in most areas. Wetlands are never meant to be built on. They are meant to be reserved and be kept without any building so that they can help the rivers that are flowing around cities so that we have water.
The Ministry of Local Government, I agree Hon. Wunganayi that it should budget to support local authorities and at this moment in time, most of the chemicals are bought outside the country. So yes, there should be a budget for foreign currency so that our local authorities can operate well and everyone can get clean water. Yes, it is us women who always suffer when there is no water. I have seen even here in Harare and all major cities, you see women going around, some washing clothes even in rivers or dams. They actually spend half a day there trying to get water to feed their families.
Surely, Government at this moment in time has to be proactive and make sure that we keep our Zimbabwean people well and healthy. We cannot be healthy without clean water, of which cholera actually cost this Government a lot of money to try and curb it. I remember the last time we were now running around for this medication or that medication. If we make sure that our infrastructure and chemicals are ready and everything is done properly, we might save a lot of money for Government. We might think by ignoring and not considering infrastructure building we are doing justice but it ends up costing us more including losing lives.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I want to thank the mover and seconder of the motion, and all the Senators that debated on this motion. This motion is a very important motion in that if you check our Constitution, Section 7, it is also covered where it says it is one of the rights that a person must have. Another writer Simuel Taylor said, ‘water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink’. That is the situation that you get in
Zimbabwe where you can get water but you cannot drink it because it is either dirty or it can give you diseases. That is the problem that we have got but Mr. President, the Constitution is clear as I said.
Part 2, especially Section 77 (a) says ‘every person has a right to safe, clean and portable water’ and the State must take reasonable legislative and other measures within the limits of the resources available to it to achieve the progressive realisation of this right’. That is a very important statement from our Constitution. That means to say the Constitution is very clear, it says we must have clean water. The problem that we have got now Mr. President in this country is that even in the urban areas, we are having problems in getting clean water. I went to Masvingo over the weekend, there was a queue at that particular borehole and that queue was about 500 metres. I believe that is as far as outside the Parliament. They were all looking for water. They have Lake Mutirikwi there which is a big reservoir of water but they cannot extract water from Lake Mutirikwi because the pipes are old. They were put by the Smith regime and unfortunately, we have not put anything to upgrade the system.
As said, many people have now migrated to the urban areas and because of that, they use more water. The systems are no longer copying. Water Mr. President is one of the most vital natural resources for all life on earth. On earth here we all need water. We need water because water is life. Mr. President, I am not ashamed to state the uses of water and I will state those religiously. We need water to drink, cook, wash ourselves, clothes and utensils such as pots, plates and so on, even to clean our floors. The place that we are seated in today, they use water to clean this place and they do not use dirty water. They use clean and quality water. Water improves life and living standards. If you have poor water, you expect to have a sick nation. That is very important Mr.
President.
It means therefore, the State must take care of the issue of water because water is needed around the society that is the state. What I mean here is people in the urban and rural areas need water. Animals need water. Everyone, including the hospitals, industries, agriculture and so on need water. It therefore means to say and when I am saying ‘need water’ I am talking about quality water. You cannot take dirty water into a hospital. You cannot use dirty water to irrigate in agriculture or industry because in industry as you know we make different things such as food. In whatever we do, clean water is very important and clean water can only be achieved where we have enough foreign currency allocated so that we get clean water.
Mr. President, as I said, the Government needs to support especially local government. The Ministry of Finance needs to see to it that the local authorities get enough foreign currency to get the material that is needed for upgrading their water reticulation systems. As you know, we do not produce everything in this country. Most of the things that we use in this country are imported. Let me say 75 or 85%, I am just plucking from the head but I believe that is what is happening. That is very important for the Ministry of Finance to do something about water.
Mr. President, there is a figure that I saw in some publication where that is very important for the Minister of Finance to do something about water. Mr. President, there is a figure that I saw in some publication where it was said because the cholera outbreak that took place in this country the Government spent about 50 million dollars. That 50 million if we were careful and if we had done our things properly, we would be using that 50 million to get medication. You heard the report from the other Committee where they were talking about the cancers. We would get medication for these particular cancers, the 50 million that we are talking about.
Mr. President, this motion is a motion that is strategic, useful, a motion that all of us especially the Senate must move it together. What we must know is that when we talk about these diseases they do not look at colour, age, political party that you come from. When cholera comes, it will attach Senator Shoko and Senator so and so from the other political party. So, this is very important. It is a motion that we must all stand up and support, push so that when we do our next budget these Ministries that deal with water are taken care of, given enough finances so that the local councils are able to upgrade our water system.
Mr. President, I am not only talking about the local councils but the rural councils because in the rural councils we now have got our growth points. Growth points have settlements that need water although in some growth points they are still using blair toilets which also need a lot of water because there is concentration of the population. With those few words and with those few contributions, let met thank you for allowing me to speak and allowing me to express my views on this motion. Let me also thank the movers of the motion, the seconders and the Senators who have debated on this motion.
HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. B. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th July, 2019
On the motion of HON. SEN MOHADI seconded by HON. SEN MAKONE, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Five minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
PARLIAMENT SPORTS CLUB
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I wish to inform the
Senate that the Parliament Sports Club wishes to advise all Hon.
Senators interested in sports that training will resume on Monday, 22 July, 2019 and will be conducted every day from Mondays to Thursdays from 0600 hours to 0700 hours at the Girls High School.
Those who are interested in joining the club should collect membership forms from Mr. A. Nyamuramba, in Office No. 4, Third Floor, South Wing at Pax House.
MOTION
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN TOWNS
AND GROWTH POINTS
HON. SEN. WUNGANAI: I move the motion standing in my
name that this House:
COGNISANT that Section 77 (a) recognises the right of every person to safe, clean and potable water;
DEEPLY CONCERNED by the perennial shortage of clean and
portable water in most towns and growth points, which has over the years greatly contributed to an outbreak of waterborne diseases such as cholera and typhoid.
NOTING that according to the Ministry of Health and Child Care, more than US$50 million was utilised in containing cholera outbreak during the year 2018 alone;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon Government to urgently allocate
foreign currency to local authorities for the development of water infrastructure in towns and growth points and purchasing water treatment chemicals.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Madam President.
Cognisant of the strategic role that water plays in our lives and all other specifics and the dictates of the Constitution, Section 77 (a) on the provision of safe, clean and portable water and further concerned that the non-provision of clean water, safe and portable water is proving very expensive to the fiscus when people are affected by diarrhea, cholera and other waterborne diseases; we call upon the Government to expeditiously deal with all sources of water by prioritising foreign currency to the relevant authorities that deal with provision of water.
Madam President, I have observed that the Government has been constantly failing to touch and zero in on the most critical areas around the provision of water and its link to the right to life, health, food and other rights protected in the International Bill of Rights. I therefore seek to raise some very critical issues and input to discuss around the inclusion of water related issues in this august House. Furthermore, these discussions should be able to add value to the smooth running in the provisions of water related and rights to Zimbabweans as it gives the minimum demands on what obligations the State has and what people
are entitled to.
Madam President, the prevention of diseases such as cholera and sanitation are some of the reasons why the provision of water is essential for human beings. Water is also essential for other things such as producing food, maintaining hygiene or even securing livelihoods and the right to gain a living by work. The human right to water is indispensable. For leading a life in human dignity, the right to water entitles every citizen sufficient safe, acceptable, physically and accessible and affordable water for personal and domestic uses.
The Committee on Economic and Cultural Rights which monitors the implementation of the international cognate on economic, social and cultural rights to which Zimbabwe is a part to, has previously recognised that water is a human right contained in Article 11 (1) which guarantees among other rights, the right to food and clothing and housing. The right has also been recognised in other international treaties such as the Convention of the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women which stipulates that State parties shall ensure to women the right to enjoy adequate living conditions particularly in relation to water supply.
Article, 24, Paragraph 2 of the Convention on the Right of the Child requires the State parties to combat diseases and malnutrition through the provision of adequate nutritious food and clean drinking water. The right to water contains both freedoms and entitlements. The freedoms include the right to maintain access to existing water supplies necessary for the right to water and the right to be free from interference, such as the right to be free from arbitrary disconnection or contamination of water supplies by contrast. The entitlement includes the right to a system of water supply and management that provides equality of opportunities for people to enjoy the right to water.
Moreover, the elements of the right to water must be adequate for human dignity, life and health. However, the adequacy of water should not be interpreted narrowly by mere reference to volumetric quantities and technologies.
Key Issues and Consideration in Provision of Water
Availability - the water supply for each person must be sufficient and continuous for personal and domestic uses. The uses ordinarily include drinking, personal sanitation, washing of clothes, food preparation, personal and household hygiene.
Quality– the water required for each personal or domestic use must be safe, therefore free from micro-organisms and chemical substances that constitute a threat to a person’s health. Furthermore, water would be of any acceptable colour, odor and taste for each personal or domestic use.
Accessibility – water and water facilities and services have to be accessible to everyone without discrimination. Accessibility has four overlapping dimensions:-
- Physical accessibility – water and adequate water facilities and services must be within safe physical reach for all sections of the population; sufficient, safe and acceptable water must be accessible within or in the immediate vicinity of each household, educational institutions and workplace.
- Economically accessibility of water and water facilities and services must be affordable for all - The direct and indirect costs and charges associated with securing water must be affordable and must not compromise or threaten the realisation of other human rights to ensure that water is affordable, State parties must adopt the necessary measures which may include, inter alia use of range of appropriate low cost techniques and technologies. Appropriate pricing policies such as free or low cost water, income supplements even in the time of severe resource constraints, the vulnerable must be protected by the adoption of relatively low cost targeted programmes.
- Water and water facilities and services must be accessible to all including the most vulnerable or marginalised sections of the population and infact without discrimination of any of the prohibited grounds. In appropriate resources allocation can lead to discrimination that may not be overt. State must also make sure that women are not excluded from decision making processes concerning water resources entitlements. The disproportionate burden women bear in the collection of water should be alleviated. Provision of adequate water to educational institutions currently without adequate drinking water should be addressed as a matter of urgency.
Government of Zimbabwe policies in relation to the Water Act
The Water Act Chapter 20.25 (1998) reformed the water sector to ensure a more equitable distribution of water and stakeholder involvement in the management of water resources. This means that water can longer be privately owned in Zimbabwe; the priority dirt water right system has been replaced by water permits of limited durations which will be allocated by catchment councils. Furthermore, what is now treated as economic good and the ‘user pays principle’ applies, pollution of water is now an offence and ‘the polluter pays principle’ applies. In terms of the body that is set up to deal with the provision of water; the Zimbabwe National Water Authority Act Chapter 20.25 (1998) led to the establishment of ZINWA, a parastatal agent responsible for water planning and bulk supply.
ZINWA plans and manages water on catchment bases. Other responsibilities include the management of the water committee system operationalisation of water pricing; operating, maintaining existing infrastructure and executing development projects. In short, ZINWA is responsible for the supply and management of domestic water in urban areas. ZINWA also operates on a commercial and self financing basis whereby it provides its services at a significant fee to generate the revenue it needs to finance its administrative and water supply functions.
Madam President, there have been serious challenges with regard to the provision of water such as the fact that most cities continue to receive dirt discoloured water from their taps. People continue to experience stomach problems arising from the use and drinking of contaminated water. Generally, water rates are high and unaffordable for most citizens and that the authority has failed to provide water services in most areas in Zimbabwe where it is mandated to do so. It is a fact and therefore have been numerous complaints that ZINWA as a body mandated to carry out such activities failed to deliver water to Zimbabweans.
ZINWA inherited a sophisticated but old network of urban water supply infrastructure from local authorities. The infrastructure required effective maintenance and management ranging from repair of broken down pipes to waste water treatment. ZINWA however lack the human technical and financial resources to undertake these tasks with the result that infrastructure fell into despair. Leaks were not repaired and sewage flowed in the streets of poorer and densely populated suburbs. Secondly, ZINWA did not have the financial resources to manage and supply safe water to residents. ZINWA has had to depend on the
Central Bank to finance its core activities. In short, lack of money also means that ZINWA could not afford to finance its core activities, including the purchasing of water chemicals – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
Madam President, it is hoped that the centralisation of procurement will not mean creating more cronyism by creating avenues to siphon money meant for the water. There is need for clarity on what body will be sourcing such materials and who they will be accountable to. More over, it is necessary for the whole country to know what amounts are spent on water chemicals. It is also very welcome development that water reticulation system is being upgraded in both rural and urban areas.
However, the Government now needs to be clear on timeframes and deadlines and Zimbabweans have a right to access such information from the authorities. Zimbabweans pay taxes and contribute to their own welfare through such taxes, part of the money which is being used to fund such projects and therefore deserve to know how their money is being spent.
Madam President, mentioned in a normal setting, the idea around the control of borehole drillers would not be problematic. However, the current situation in Zimbabwe where every citizen who has had problems with water supply or dreads using water from the tap ends up looking to drill a borehole point and expose the Government, thus before the President and Government proposing controlling such actors which is one of the State’s obligations anyway.
The Government needs to address the root cause of the problem, which is basically that it has failed to provide portable water to millions of Zimbabweans, and thus must rectify the situation. If the Government puts its house in order and provides safe, reliable, clean and portable water, the sprouting of borehole, drillers and boreholes in most homesteads will decrease.
Recommendations
Madam President, the inclusive Government must have a clear policy on water facilities and resources. Issues around accessibility, affordable and availability of water services and facilities must be clearly spelt out in programmes that are meant and set to deal with the water situation in the country. Government must put more resources into activities around water provision. Water that is used for domestic purposes must not be charged at commercial rates. The Government and any relevant authority charged with managing water resources and facilities must try to find other ways of raising revenues without using water as a source of revenue.
Citizens who fall ill due to diseases caused by lack of clean water such as diarrhea, cholera and other such related diseases must be attended from state-owned medical facilities – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] – Water facilities that are gender sensitive and take care of women’s needs must be introduced in areas that are prone to water cuts and water shortages. Government must take progressive steps towards realising the need for portable clean water in educational institutions, homes and business facilities across the whole country. Domestic water must not be disconnected arbitrary, especially for reasons of failing to pay the rates. Those tasked with managing water supply and sewer reticulation must be made accountable to citizens. Government and Parliament must operate efficiently. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I want to support the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Wunganayi. It is a very important motion that is looking at access to water in both rural and urban areas. We all know Madam President that water is life. If there is no water it can lead to a number of diseases that we will not be able to control. Water is vital. In rural areas, our parents are able to plant vegetables and avail nutritious food to their families. Water is vital not only to humans but also to our livestock and animals as poultry and other domestic animals.
The difference that is there is that when we are in the rural areas the issue of water falls under the rural councils. The rural councils use by-laws but in the urban areas we have municipal councils and they also use by-laws. Let me hasten to say that water is vital. If only the Government as the mover has said, that Zimbabwe should equip DDF because it was responsible for sinking boreholes and water channels in the rural areas. The DDF is incapacitated and that is affecting access to water by the communities.
Most of the diseases that affected our domestic animals were due to the fact that our dip tanks did not have enough water since there is a certain level of water that is needed for dip tanks, but because of the situation and also due to climate change, most of our water bodies are without water and our water table has reduced. So what we want is for our councils to have foresight - that for those water bodies that still have a lot of water, they should be able to harness water from those water bodies and channel it towards dams in those areas. We know that this requires financial support though the budget. What we need to remember also is that water is vital for our survival.
I also want to mention that in our municipal councils should have foresight and be proactive, because most people have migrated from the rural areas to the urban areas and population has increased. So their plans should be in line with what is happening. They should plan to see how they should be able to access water in urban areas, in line with the number of people or increase in population. However, if this is not aligned, there is a challenge of water because of the influx of people in urban centres.
There is also need for monitoring and evaluation because if that is not there, the municipality plan will not be efficient. In different areas, we have faced challenges whereby it is more like desert-like because most water bodies are dry including communities and the rainfall patterns have changed and are now poor. We do not know what to do as this is beyond our control but our councils should be knowledgeable and prepared for such challenges. Such disaster preparedness measures are important in order to ensure there is access to water in rural areas.
If you look at irrigation schemes that are in the rural areas, most of them are not performing well because of the shortage of water which is unable to irrigate the area. The machines are no longer able to pump water that can be used for irrigation purposes. So, our councils should have such expertise to mitigate such challenges and have other strategies to ensure that people have access to water. Furthermore, as women, when water is not available, we face the brunt of the challenges because you find women are travelling long distance to reach a borehole and are forced to wake up very early in the morning. This is a big challenge to women and children. This also affects the education of children who have to go and find water before going to school.
Madam President, water is life and for development to take place we need water. Most industries in these urban areas use water. So, we want our councils to have the expertise on how they can assist the urban and rural areas in terms of mitigating the effects of climate change so that it does not become a challenge in our country. They should also share best practices with other countries as to how they are doing it in terms of accessing water.
In hospitals the patients also need water. The women in the labour wards need water. So water is vital. We want to thank the mover because this is a very pertinent motion as it affects the different aspects of people’s lives.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I am glad you are talking about the importance of water. Even in hospitals, women in labour need lots of water to go through the process. This is a very important motion which deals with the most important aspect of our culture such as the welfare of our domestic animals. I am very grateful to the Senator who moved this motion and the seconder of the motion. As the Senate, we are supposed to debate this motion to a satisfactory conclusion.
We also have the responsibility of advising Government on the best methods of conserving and harvesting water so that in future, we do not face the same predicament as a nation. Shortage of water brings a problem to both human beings and animals and as such, its shortage should be avoided as much as possible.
Water is also essential in our commercial entities such as factories. Machines run on water and some chemicals are mixed with water so when there is no water, there is no production. As I stated before, hospitals need water for both medication and manufacturing of drugs. Patients who take medicines also need water. There are instances whereby patients are advised to bring their own water to hospitals so that there can be effective treatment. This aspect of bringing water to hospital creates further problems for the patient who has to cope-up with the illness and the treatment.
The responsibility of fighting this water shortage does not rest on ZINWA alone but it needs a multi-faceted approach which includes both rural and urban councils and District Development Fund. DDF is responsible for the development of infrastructure in rural areas which include supply of water through the supply of water and drilling of boreholes. As Members of this august House, we need to call for the adequate funding for DDF so that it can fulfill its mandate. The current climate change and resultant draught have led to the drying up of many water bodies including the water tables which have gone further deep down. Adequate financing of DDF will help in the digging up of water bodies for the benefit of human, flora and fauna.
^HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Madam President for giving me opportunity to make my contribution on this motion which discusses the importance of water. I have noticed that both traditional healers and herbalists are facing problems in their trade because trees are dying and they have nowhere to harvest their herbs. Under normal circumstances, when they dig up a tree or cut its branch, that tree is supposed to bring up new shoots because there will be a lot of water.
The current situation is that when the trees have been cut for medicinal purposes, they do not shoot or grow because there is no water. I hope you understood me Madam President because I have debated in my Shangani dialect on the problems faced by traditional healers and herbalists in harvesting medicines from the flora and fauna because of water shortage.
I am begging Members of this august House to go down on their elbows and knees and pray to the Lord above to supply water to countries like Democratic Republic of Congo which will flow into rivers which include Zambezi for the benefit of Zimbabwe. In my constituency we have farmers who practice animal husbandry who are now suffering from loss of livestock. The loss emanates from diseases which are caused by lack of sufficient water and hence we have tick borne diseases. Some farmers have tried to apply for the services of borehole rigs but this has proved to be too expensive because one has to dig up to the depth of 60 to 80 metres.
Madam President, on the 13th, I was invited by women engaged in farming activities in my constituency. They had a good vegetable garden and water problems. When I got there, I saw that these women had a lot of work to do. When I saw what they were supposed to do, I got into the field, I was so pained. They do not have fertilizers for their vegetables. Some of them are older than me. They asked me for cement. Women dig wells on their own, it is so frightening to see the kind of holes that they dig. Water is very important. I had very little things but I felt that we need to assist these old women. I asked them how they were able to dig their gardens when they are such old. They said that they wake up early in the morning at 0100 hours. In that area to tell you the truth, they have got a lot of cotton. After 0700, hours they go to the cotton fields. I asked an Extension Worker how they are making that cotton look so well. They said God is there for us We ask God for more rains. If we go to churches, let us pray for water so that there is a lot of water in our areas. Nothing goes well when there is no water.
In our area, we used to say if someone finds something, whether it is a goat for him or her to see whether the goat is going to survive, they would pour water on it and it bleats, it shows that it is alive. There were no hospitals, so if a mother gives birth, they would pour water on the child and if the baby cries that would show that the child is alive. So, water is very important. We are asking the Government to help us. In our area we have got a lot of problems in terms of water. We want DDF to be assisted with equipment. If you dig for water here, you get water very fast but in our area, you have to dig about 60 metres. So we need effective machinery to do that. There is no machinery at the moment to do the digging. We are asking those responsible for water to make sure that there is effective machinery.
I want to thank the Hon. Senators who have brought in this motion.
It is true that women are struggling to carry water at the same time
going to the fields. They go for long distances to fetch water. A lot of people want clean water but if you dig well, you can find clean water. In our area, you can dig for fifteen metres and there will be no water. What shall we do now Madam President? We are asking the Government to assist us so that machinery is sent to rural areas. I want to thank the mover and the seconder.
HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th July, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY’S
BILATERAL VISIT TO THE SHURA ADVISORY COUNCIL IN
DOHA
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Speaker of National Assembly, Hon. Advocate J. F. Mudenda’s Bilateral Visit to the Shura Advisory Council in Doha, Qatar.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th July, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE DELEGATION TO THE AFREA
CONFERENCE ON MONITORING AND EVALUATION HELD IN
ABIDJAN
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the delegation to the AfrEA Conference on Monitoring and Evaluation held in Abijan, Cote d’voire.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NECHOMBO: May I this afternoon begin by thanking you for affording me this opportunity to wind up my motion at the same time expressing appreciation to Hon. Senators who debated on this invaluable motion. These are Hon. Sen. Mohadi, Hon. Sen.
Chief Matupula, Hon. Sen. Mkwebu, Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi, Hon. Sen.
Muzenda, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira and Hon. Sen. A. Dube.
As our nation prepares and engages gears to accelerate towards devolution and Vision 2030, it leaves us with no option but to morally compel ourselves to embrace the collective voice. We want the collective voice of wisdom from Hon. Members who debated so passionately, loudly and clearly about the inexcusable need to adopt and implement monitoring and evaluation. Madam President, spoken or unspoken, acknowledged or denied, the greatest and timely need to our citizenry is Government performance and accountability. Our people need to know and appreciate the progress of numerous Government policies, projects and interventions. Today, more than ever before, we are challenged. We are challenged by the strong desire of our people who want to know about the impact and progress of Government efforts. As such, it is incumbent upon us to be accountable and fulfill the peoples’ right to access information. Monitoring and evaluation, thus comes to our aide as the key enabling tool.
Madam President, allow me to take you on a brief historic mental flight about the genesis of M & E. It dates back to 1980 in the case of developed countries, 2007 in Africa and 2011 within the region. Monitoring and Evaluation has been accepted and is gaining traction as a tried and tested rod to improve public sector performance. It is the means to strengthen effectiveness, efficiency, impact as well as accountability of Government policies and programmes. Monitoring and evaluation is the tool to uproot corruption and enhance transparency and accountability. The Hon. Members added their voices about the need for monitoring and evaluation (M & E); the need for a political will. Political will from the Office of the President; from the ministries and from us; from the Parliament. As we embark and progress on our journey of nation building, adoption and institutionalisation of M & E becomes an imperative and our greatest good.
May the culture of monitoring and evaluation prevail, prevail in our day to day endevours; prevail in our community councils; prevail in the corridors of governance and may it prevail in the nation at large.
Madam President, out of the need to translate the momentum of Hon. Members who debated and to those whom transparency and accountability is an ideal, an ideal transparency and accountability, I say word cannot be the answer but action. To that end, may I humbly request that the motion be now withdrawn from the Order Paper? I thank you.
Motion that this House takes note of the report of the Zimbabwe delegation to the AfrEA Conference on Monitoring and Evaluation held in Abidjan, Cote d’voire from 11th to 15th March, 2019 with leave, withdrawn.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE 44TH PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM.
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the delegation to the 44th Plenary Assembly of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th July, 2019.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MASHONALAND CENTRAL PROVINCE (HON. SEN.
MAVHUNGA), the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Five Minutes Past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 25th July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
ZIMBABWE WOMEN’S PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS
WORKSHOP
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to inform the
Senate that all Members of the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a one day workshop on the unpacking of the Marriages Bill on
Monday 29th July, 2019 at Rainbow Towers Hotel starting at 08:00hrs
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before we proceed to
questions without notice, I just have three apologies from Ministers but I am surprised that the front row is almost empty yet I have only three apologies and I do not know why. The apologies I have are from the following:
Hon. Prof. M. Ncube – The Minister of Finance and Economic
Development;
Hon. M. Mutsvangwa – The Minister of Information, Media and
Broadcasting Services; and
Hon. Z. Ziyambi -The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs.
Present in the House are; - The Minister of Higher and Tertiary
Education (Hon. Prof Murwira); The Deputy Minister of Defence and
War Veterans (Hon. Matemadanda); The Minister of State for
Mashonaland East Province (Hon. Munzverengwi); The Minister of
State for Manicaland Province (Hon. Dr. Gwaradzimba); and The
Deputy Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing (Hon. Mhlanga). Hon. Ministers, you are most welcome.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Madam
President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Excuse me Hon.
Member. I think we have to follow procedures. You stand up so that I recognise you. You cannot just call from your seat.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Madam President. I
just want to make a point of order after what you have said. As leader of the opposition in this House, I really want you Madam President to present this case as to whether Ministers take this House seriously. Last time we were debating something on social welfare and pensions there was no Minister here. Today is the only day that people interact with
Ministers so that we do not wait too long to discuss things happening in Government. Unfortunately, we seem to accept that Ministers come when they want and when they do not want they just do not come. I am looking at this Order Paper and there are some questions which have been asked as far back as 1st November 2018 which have not been responded to. There are a number of questions here to the Minister of Finance from October 2018, how do we then say we are committing ourselves to serving the nation when Ministers choose when to come and when not to come? There is no movement by these Houses to ensure that Ministers are here.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you leader of
the Opposition. I think it was after I had already referred to. You are supporting me, meaning that as the President of the Senate. We are going to register our complaint concerning this. We are however hoping that some more Ministers will walk in as we proceed. We will complain to the Leader of the House who is the Minister of Justice so that he checks where the Ministers are. I think we have to proceed with those who are here present.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam President, where is the
leader of the House because when the Ministers are not around we expect the Government Leader of the House whom we were introduced to as the Minister of Agriculture. He has not been here for quite some time. The Minister is supposed to be the Leader of the House in the Senate according to our records.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Mudzuri, I think when we mean we are going to complain, we do not segregate the complaints. We are also going to complain that we are not getting the Ministers, starting from the Leader of the House. So, when we write we will include him.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question. My question goes to the Deputy
Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Deputy Minister, I want to know what policies you have put in place so far. People are suffering out there due to lack of water and roads are really bad. I just want to understand the policies that you have put in place to help the people of Zimbabwe in local governance. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): Thank you very much Madam President and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for posing that question. Yes, the problems that the Hon. Senator is pointing out are inherent in most of our local authorities because of the aging infrastructure. However, Government is moving in with fiscal support to try and expand on that infrastructure.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: My question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. When are you going to increase allowances given to war veterans so that they can pay school fees for their children and also pay for their medical expenses because as you know PSMAS no longer accepts war veterans and as a result they are forced to pay cash upfront when seeking medical treatment.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): I would like to thank the
Hon. Senator for his very pertinent question. As war veterans, we are also not happy with the money being given to war veterans. I wish the Minister of Finance and Economic Development was in the House so that we could direct this question to him because the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is the one responsible for war veterans allowances.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. We have been reading in the social media and on the internet about the threats of Alkaeda or ISIS in the Republic of Mozambique. Is this a credible threat and if so, how prepared is the Zimbabwean Government to deal with it?
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS
(HON. MATEMADANDA): I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mwonzora.
The state of security and insecurity is dealt with by the national JOC.
That is the organ which assesses the level of security and insecurity and I can only comment if I am told by them, what level of security threat we have. So, I suggest that maybe this question be put on paper so that it can be taken to the nation JOC which is responsible for assessing the level of security threat. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUPE: Thank you Hon. President of the Senate.
My question is directed at Hon. Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development, Prof. Murwira. I would like to know whether there has been a major shift in the education policy especially in higher education regarding degrees offered at universities in Zimbabwe. There have been some press releases which appear to be confusing saying that some degrees are going to be disregarded, that some degrees are not really useful in this country. So, I would like to find out if ever you can update this House whether we are hearing the truth or there is something wrong. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I wish to thank Hon. Sen. Khupe for that question. Our education has always to be checked for quality and in checking for quality, we are saying our national strategic intent in education is that it must be able to cause industry. It must be able to cause industry by providing goods and services because universities produce either people who produce goods which is industry which are tangibles, or services which are intangibles like lawyers give for example. What we are faced with in this country is we are having an education system that was mainly focusing on three things which are teaching, research and community service which are workshops basically. I call this education 3.0.
We are faced with a situation also where our education, if you look at pharmacy for example, we have a situation whereby a pharmacist who is supposed to make the drugs is selling the drugs that are imported, so they are becoming sales people. Another example is a doctor who is supposed to cure me is almost like an immigration officer who then refers me to the next person outside of the country.
What are we saying? When we did our National Skills Audit, we had findings – in medicine and health sciences our skills levels are at 5% and our skills deficit is 95% and it is exactly explaining what is happening. In natural and applied sciences our skills levels are at 3%, our deficit is 97%. I always make a joke when I am talking to my colleagues to say, I think that is why people like the Tsikamutanda’s a lot. They talk about Tsikamutanda, they talk about witches that are falling from the sky because people are not doing real science. So this is quality.
In terms of business and commerce, you find that we have an excess of 21% in terms of skills levels. If you would allow me Madam President to say in Shona, kana gondo rapotsa nhiyo, rinokumba zvese nemarara. Whereby we say that our people, instead of doing commerce, they end up even trading the money itself. Ndokusaka vanhu vachitengesa mari. Vanotengesa anything. saka kana vashaiwa vanokumba zvese nemarara. I am trying just to explain a point. In terms of agriculture, we have a skills deficit of 88% and 12% skills level. It will not surprise you why sometimes we are importing food. On the other hand, in law, we have a skills deficit of 92%, skills availability 8%. Overall in arts, we have a skills surplus 13%. This is what we are faced with as a nation. We have 94% plus literacy which means that is a very good plus for us.
We are very good in terms of literacy but we are always saying, knowing is not a problem, knowledge is always not a problem. Any fool can know. It is about understanding. When you understand, you can make things. It therefore makes us be able to introspect within our systems and say yes, we have this strength but why are we hungry when we have so much literacy. Why do we not have industries, when we have so much literacy? Literacy tells us that it is just a raw material but we have to move on. We do not have to over celebrate this literacy. Reading and writing, but do you understand what you are reading and writing. This is what we are having for example, when you look at literacy in this country, it is very high and that is why people are on twitter. Every time, they can read, decode, code and shout at each other on twitter because they can read and write, but are they making sense?
This is what the education has to be asking about.
This then calls on us to say, what do we do about this cloud that does not rain? What do we do about this well that does not have water? It does not bear water, ihorei isinganaye? There is something, we must look at it. We then went on to say, maybe we really have to analyse the design of our education itself. We discovered that the design of our education is such that it promotes literacy and promotes people who look for a job but then the question is, because sometimes we say, we create employment, but we do not ask ourselves how is employment created? It should necessarily come from education itself because education itself must produce employment. Why is our education not producing employment? It is because of its design of education 3.0 which says, you do nothing, you just get literate and you wait for a person to hire you to do a job but that person was he or she not born of woman. Why are they able to create a job so that you can work and you will just wait for it. This was a colonial design whereby we have to work in factories that were thought at Cambridge, that were thought at Edinbursh because they were complete universities. Here we only had to be literate in order to be able to manage the systems but not design them.
We then said, now we need to examine our education and add two more missions so that we are complete as a post independent State. You cannot expect to use colonial education in a post independence State and expect a different result from a colonial result. Therefore, we then said no, let us add innovation, let us add industrialisation. This innovation and industrialisation makes universities be able to have five budget items and colleges. Budget item on teaching, budget item on research, budget item on workshops, budget item on innovation and budget item on industrialisation. If you put budget, things will happen and budget is put because of a design. That is why we have said, our education has to move from 3.0 to 5.0. This enables us to be able to explain exactly what is happening with degrees. Then we said, this is a design, what is the other problem that this – why is it that we have a country which has minerals but somebody else discovers them and we say, aah, kune maminerals but we were sitting on them. What makes that education not see the environment in which it is supposed to transform? Education by nature must transform people’s lives by looking at the immediate environment in which they are.
One example that I want to give is, we still design our roofs using what we say snow pack weight. Snow muZimbabwe! Snow pack weight! There is no snow in this country and there has never been snow in this country but we are using snow pack weight. It means this education is removed from the environment that it is expected to transform. There is a philosophical problem and we have to look at the education. All education must be heritage based. When we say heritage we do not mean you have to play drums before you start lectures in engineering. We are just saying, heritage is what you have, your people, your minerals, vegetation, animals, your soil and your water. You start from there and education can work, from there education must work on those. Whether it is physics but it is physics of things in Zimbabwe, if it is geology, it is geology of rocks in Zimbabwe, if it is medicine, it is medicine of trees in Zimbabwe. We then said we have a problem of being philosophical, that is why we said heritage based philosophy.
Africa is one of the continents where people eat what they do not grow.
We said, why is it that people are always talking about maize, wheat and soya bean but when they talk about their crops, they call them small grains; but I thought wheat also is a small grain and rappoko is a small grain. Therefore, this small does not mean small in terms of size, it is meaning small in terms of significance. Our education therefore has to have huge revolution, a shift in mentality. First, there is a design problem, secondly, there is a philosophical problem with it whereby we say why we can not eat bread from rappoko because rappoko can prepare bear? You can, because rappoko is the wheat of the tropics. The first question you have to be asked when you are coming from a place is kwenyu kuno merei? Sei chitigrower zvinhu zvisingameri munyika medu and it ends up being a huge investment. Zvinodhura, this irrigation, this, that because tirikugrower zvinhu zvisingameri and yet our education should give us answers to this. Therefore, we really have to introspect. In that introspection we then said, what kind of degrees are we offering? What is their philosophy? What are they trying to produce in terms of goods and services because Zimbabwe has been having a problem of paper accumulation of saying I have a certificate in this, I have a certificate in that saka tinezhara nei kana une certificate iyoyo. People end up saying, I have so much degrees and a person can tell you kuti, degree rangu rakatsva wena. Ndichatonyorera University iyoyo, degree rangu rakatsva wena. Degree harifaniri kutsva nekuti degree riri mumusoro mako, chinotsva icertificate.
VaMwonzora ravo rikatsva certificate, I am sure kuti vanoramba vachipurakitiza while he writes to the University to say, can you give me my certificate. Asi omuno anotsva. Sei madegree achitsva? Degree harifaniri kutsva. Degree rinonzi rinoscrapwa sei. Hariscrapwi because riri mumusoro mako. Iwewe ukaenda kumba kwako ukati degree rako rakatsva asi iwewe uri mupenyu, it means kuti harisi rako, hauna degree. We are having a country whereby people have papers which are saying something and their head is saying something else.
This is exactly the crux of Zimbabwe’s problem. We then said, all degrees, we are having a list of degrees that must go and a list of degrees that must not go and a list of degrees that must not go. All degrees are relevant but they are made relevant by two things like what is your board of knowledge before I come into your class and what are you going to teach me? The other thing is what are the skills that I will have when I get out of there? So, degrees must necessarily have two things, board of knowledge and board of skill.
We did the Zimbabwe National Qualifications Framework which enforces that every degree, no matter what you call it, must tell us what it is doing, what skills it is giving and what knowledge it is giving. There is no list like this degree called this will go. Any degree even in engineering can go if it is not telling us what it is doing in terms of knowledge and in terms of skills. So there are no lists. We believe that we are complying at this moment.
This week, we were at Midlands State University with all academics and we are realigning our education to Education 5.0 that is heritage based and we are doing it together. In this, we are realigning our degrees in such a way that they will give us development in this country. You cannot send a child to school and finish all your cattle and goats and that child comes back to you saying he wants a job. It basically means that what he did at school is meaningless. So, these are the issues that we are looking at.
The policy shift is no more papers in this country, they shall be degrees. No more papers because papers can tell you something else but degree should stay in your head. Hatidi madegree anonzi akatsva mumba iwe uri mupenyu. Anogotsva sei iwe uri mupenyu? Ndaifunga kuti kana rakatsva, iwe ungadai wakafawo but because urikuti akatsva iwe uri mupenyu wanga usina degree iroro. So, the issue which we are basically saying is that the shift is towards an education ine pundutso, education ine basa, education that produces goods and services.
Industry does not fall from the sky, it is created by people, people who went through an education system. Saka sei education system yedu isingaproduse industry? It is because of its design. This is what we have looked at. We are just looking at the design of the education system and its philosophy and we are improving as we go the way forward. So, the issue is there is no wrong time to do the right thing. We are just doing it but it does not mean that we will say Dr. Mavetera your degree has been taken away. It cannot be taken away from him because it is in his head. Nothing like that can happen because it is not practical. The issue is improving as we move ahead with our country. It is our only country and it can only be developed by its own people and not anybody else. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: It is difficult to make a
supplementary question when the Minister has explained very well. Madam President, I want to thank the Hon. Minister. He has explained the policy very well but I want us to go further with this issue. We once had Professors like the late Prof. Kamba, who when they speak, you would find it very interesting. They were very bright indeed. I think you should carry everybody on board, including Parliament. My question is; what plan do you have for the Members of Parliament to support you on where we are going so that together, we understand it and do it as well.
Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDCUATGION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you Hon.
President. I think we need more assistance from Parliament in the interest of Zimbabwe that we are saying we are a literate nation. We are only left with a little movement so that we have a real revolution in the way this country can be rich. What is that little movement to just say you were educated and so what happened? Zvinoita kuti vanhu varangarire kuti dzidzo yangu ndeyei. Every degree that we do must lead to something kwete kungoti ndaane degree ndipei basa. Sakai we unebasa rei? I hope I am not confusing you to say kana iwe uchida basa iwe unebasa rei. Unofanira kundiudza kuti unogonei ndisati ndakupa basa. Uye futi...
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Minister let me
assist with that supplementary question from Sen. Chief Charumbira. What he is saying is that what plan do you have for the Members of Parliament to support you and where we are going so that together we understand it and do it as well.
*THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDCUATGION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I am saying the
assistance that we need from Parliament is if it was possible that we give you all the books that we have written about this movement. We also want to be assisted that we do workshops so that we are able to understand each other on what we want to do. This issue is very important because if you throw a boomerang, it comes back to you and if you throw the arrow, it does not come back. If you throw the arrow thinking that it would come back as a boomerang does, it does not work. So the whole thing is in the design of the whole national system as to what we really need as people. So, I need the assistance of Parliament so that together, we find the way forward.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Hon. Members
want you to move together with others.
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: I am quite impressed that the Minister
has realised that we have got people who are literate, but with no skills and I am talking with reference to the medical fraternity which he said we have got a skills gap of almost 94%. Is the Minister aware that as we speak right now, I will give just one example but it translates to all medical schools in the country which is UZ, NUST and MSU. We are actually going where you want us to be coming from. We are producing people who are literate but with no skills because there are a few teachers. The university has expanded intakes to 300 say the UZ for medical school but the staff compliment since 2000, I was one of them until last year.
We were still saying for the department of pediatrics 14, which was catered for a class of 60 and now when you go to tutorials you have got a teacher who is having a tutorial with 40- students which is not possible. What is the Ministry doing to carry out your vision because I will tell you one of the issues that you cannot improve is the skills in medical side because you find the teachers are earning less than the juniors who graduate and you find very little incentive for teachers to come and teach. So, what is the Ministry doing?
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Mind you, Hon. Sen.
that was a supplementary question. I can see that you are bringing in a different question. Can we stick to the supplementary question which originates from the original?
HON. SEN. MAVETERA: Thank you Madam President.
Probably, I would say what is he doing? I have already explained so that we do not actually produce literate but people with skills because the scenario at the moment is that we are going where we want to take ourselves away from for the reasons I have explained Madam President
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): I wish to thank the Hon. Sen for the question. What we are doing is to look at the four pillars of making sure that our education which produce goods and services is achieved.
- We are looking at the programmes themselves which I was trying to explain to Hon. Khupe that the programmes have to be well structured such that they produce something.
- We said the promotions infrastructure and the staffing infrastructure has to be looked at. This is actually looking at the question that you are posing in terms of what we are doing. We want to make sure that people want to stay with us, want to work there and want to enjoy their jobs. So that is pillar number two
- Pillar number three, we want to make sure that the physical infrastructure is well done. That is why we have even said to the private sector; come and work with us, have consultations with high end hospitals around our universities so that it improves our income and we can encourage our people to want to work with us.
- The fourth pillar is our financial infrastructure and that is why we have introduced again the student loan scheme. This also includes the staff financial infrastructure so that we can do well. In this way – that is why the question becomes extremely relevant to say we really need strong backing from Parliament for the survival of this nation because a nation mainly survives on what it can do rather than on what it can import. It is what it can do which we call human capacity. Everything else becomes secondary. It is about
what people can do. So, we really think that financing universities is not a luxury but a security item in that it is health, food and it is everything that a nation can be made of. It is the lawyers and I think all Hon. Members that are here passed through the education system. That is it. So, we have to look at that and I am really looking forward to Parliament moving in this direction so that we have an education which is not just a label but an education that is a level. Levels and not labels. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans. Some two weeks ago, we read in the social media that when the Minister was in Lupane he asked for donations of medicines to be used in Lupane hospitals. My question is, should people expect to be treated only when there are elections or should health institutions receive medicines during election period only? In his capacity as Deputy
Minister of Defence and War Veterans, the Minister promised people in Lupane that hospitals will be fully supplied with medicines. My question then is, will the hospitals still be fully supplied even after elections?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you very much for
that question. What the Hon. Member has stated is not true. When he says he noticed my handwriting, he might only have seen a place where my name was mentioned. He did not critically check the authenticity of
that.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Maybe before you
continue, what is the term runyoro referring to?
*HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you Madam President for
asking for an explanation on the writing referred to.
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: There is a letter which was written by Hon. Deputy Minister Matemadanda addressed to Natpharm
Pvt. Ltd asking for medicines to be dispensed to hospitals in Lupane.
That is the letter I am referring to.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: What is the writing
you are talking about and the one which is being talked about by the Minister?
*HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: There is a letter which was signed by the Hon Minister asking for medicines from Natpharm to be dispensed to Lupane hospitals.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Since the Minister has
started answering, this issue is coming from a particular area and it is not a policy question. But anyway let me allow the Minister to explain.
*HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you once again Madam
President and thank you once again Hon. Sen. for continuing to ask something that is not correct. The paper that I saw which I think he is referring to, if it is hearsay, it was a response from the Minister of Health to my alleged request for medicines. If it was true, it is not bad to treat people before or after elections. People are supposed to be treated. We should actually be competing to get people treated. Is it a good thing to blame each other for getting people medicines to be treated before or after elections? Do you want to witness people die first? Thank you Madam President but I did not write any letter.
*HON. SEN. RAMBANAPASI: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans my question. We were the first people in Buhera to be war collaborators, running with food to the guerrillas and also being informants. But since 1980, what happened was whenever it was towards elections we were asked to go and open accounts with POSB but up to this day we have not yet received any payments.
* HON. MATEMADANDA: Thank you Madam President. Let
me again thank the Hon. Sen. Rambanepasi for her question. I want to congratulate here that she is a war collaborator. That is the first thing that I want to appreciate about here besides that there is something wrong and that she made a contribution to what Zimbabwe is today. Let me answer knowing that she is representing others who are not here.
Let me answer the Hon. Senator saying that, the process of the vetting of the war collaborators is done by the Government through the process of Parliament. If someone is waiting at the bus stop and he says there is a bus which is coming when there is none coming, it depends on who told you; the person who saw the bus or heard the bus. The people who are telling people to open accounts, where were they coming from, which Government office were they coming from? If it was from private citizens who vetted each other and gave each other cards, it was not coming from Government. It was coming from individuals.
I cannot explain or talk about it. As I speak right now, the law to do with vetting of war collaborators has just come from Cabinet.
Whether there are by-elections or elections, we will tell you to be vetted.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NEMBIRE: Thank you Madam President. We have resettlement areas which are farming areas and are being destroyed by deforestation. I am asking the Minister how those areas can be put under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. J.
MHLANGA): Thank you Madam President. All areas were under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders. The Government is planning that those areas come under the jurisdiction of traditional leaders. It might be late, but that is the plan.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We now have the Hon. Minister of Information Communication Technology and Courier Services, Minister Kazembe Kazembe.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: My question is directed to the Minister of State for Mashonaland Central. What is Government policy on panning along the Mazowe River near the border of Zimbabwe and Mozambique that is being destroyed?
*THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND CENTRAL (HON. MAVHUNGA): Thank you Madam President. I
believe this question is supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. I can say as a province, we are encouraging farmers who have farms along the river and those who are panning along the river that they stop that practice.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIKWAKA: Thank you Madam
President. Allow me to ask the Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. What is Government policy towards companies like ECONET that do ecocash and do not warn people; they just shut down their network and it affects people. What is Government policy for people not to be affected to be are warned as they use phones to access money from banks when they travel? We saw that last week people had problems. Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Are you directing this
question to the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting
Services? I think that question should be directed to the Minister of
Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER
SERVICES (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Madam President. Let
me thank the Senator for his question which is very important. No one is allowed to switch off without any reason. If there is a reason that they want to switch off their equipment they have to tell the public. What happened last week on Saturday is that they did not switch off deliberately but it was because of electricity. They use what they call a call switch at Willowvale. That is their network call for every service. They have backup, they have 700 KV generators and they have a second line with 500KV and batteries. They also have solar.
When they gave us their report, they said the first generators were not working. When there was power outage the second generators also failed to pick. The batteries work for a short time. Their machines are not supposed to be using generators. The generators are supposed to work for a short period but now they are working for longer periods. That is making them to break down. The computers work with temperature and when it heats up they switch off. When it is only solar working, it is not able to make these machines work. It switched off their call switch and that affected their services.
They tried to fix that problem by calling their MD who helped in fixing another generator. It was an emergency and that is why it took the whole day and the part was bought from outside the country to fix that generator. It was a very big problem. They did not do it deliberately.
*HON. SEN. ZIVIRA: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services. We always hear when ZANU-PF has its caucus meetings and their programmes are broadcasted on ZBC. Why is it not done for all political parties that they are able to announce their programmes at ZBC? When will there be reforms that all other political parties are given airtime on ZBC?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING
SERVICES (HON. DR. MUTODI): Thank you Madam President. I
want to thank the Senator for the question. ZBC is a commercial entity and all aired programmes are paid for. If ZANU PF has a programme which it wants aired on ZBC, ZANU PF call ZBC and book to air their programme. They pay the amount that is needed for the programme to be broadcast. If the money is not paid, the programme is not aired. We encourage all political parties to pay so that they are broadcast by ZBC. You only need to inform the ZBC and pay the money which is needed for the information to be broadcast. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Hon. Minister, do you have gazetted prices? There is another party that tried to book with ZBC but the charges were too high. Is there a gazetted amount? I thank you.
HON. DR. MUTODI: I do not know the prices that are charged by ZBC but charges are done per hour or per minute. Those prices are similar to every client who want to be serviced by ZBC. When there is high demand, prices go higher but prices are similar to every client who wants service from ZBC.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Madam President, can we ask for an extension as per the Standing Order Rule 62 and we ask for 25.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Madam President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. Minister, that letter which has been talked about, let us not hide because it came from you.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is not a policy question Hon. Senator.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I have a policy question. I am only giving a background. Otherwise, he can hide again.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: No, you cannot say
that. I do not want to rule you out. Can you do it properly?
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Is it policy of Government to ask
Ministries to supply goods to a constituency where there is a by-election.
Examples are what happened in Lupane East, a letter written by the
Minister of Health. Besides that, we have witnessed food distribution to by-elections in Bikita East Ward thirty something. People were given food handouts during elections which to us is vote buying. Is it the policy of Government to vote buy during election time?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Madam
President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Komichi. I think the question of whether it is Government policy to distribute food and so forth cannot be answered by me. The question on whether medicines should be taken to places where there are elections again, may be answered by the Minister of Health, because in my personal capacity, like I have said, I have never generated a letter and I do not know how I can tell this honourable House that I did not.
Just for interest’s sake, we have seen a lot of designs and photo shopping including beheaded people. With this modern era, people can do anything. Now, I am seeing that I am being accused without proof and evidence because I am speaking as a Member who took oath that I did not generate the letter. My question is the issue to do with medicine being taken to an area where there is election must be directed to the Minister of Health that wrote the letter because it is not Matemadanda who wrote that letter. If it is a question that should be directed to Government, I do not speak for Government.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before I
recognise another Hon. Senator, I would like to remind Hon. Senators, tlet us stick to one language. If you are asking a question or the Ministers are responding to a question, we kindly ask you to stick to one language to make it easy for officers who transcribe. Do not hop from one language to the other.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity to ask my question which is directed to the Minister of War Veterans, Minister Matemadanda. Which steps are you taking as Ministry to look at the life of war veterans in terms of their welfare and how they are living with their families? They are living in deep poverty and their pensions are very low. What steps are you taking to take care of them as they are the ones who liberated this country.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Thank you Hon.
Senator. The way the Hon. Senators today are feeling for the war veterans, I am please because I am one of the war veterans. Having said that Hon. Sen. Chabuka, I do not know whether you were in the House because this question was already raised by Hon. Sen. Shoko and it was responded to by the Minister of Defence very competently. I think it has been responded to.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Higher Education. When we compare our educations, the current education and our previous education, the current education seem to be lower than the previous one despite the fact that when somebody went to school those old days, we used to take less years but today, students are taking more time at school but they still have sort of lower quality of work. For example, in the building industry a person that was trained in the early 50s, if you get a job with somebody who has just come out of training today, there is a vast difference and you cannot compare it. What is the problem?
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MURWIRA): Thank you very much Hon. President and thank you Hon. Sen. Our education has been having a design problem. We have very intelligent people but if people are not put at their right place, they will not perform. So, our education in terms of what people know, there is a lot of knowledge but there is very little skill which is being pursued. We are looking at the skill problem, that is exactly what we are trying to fix using the new policies.
I will not be able to say what people knew in the 50s was better than what people know now. I can say what people could do in the 50s, they could do it much more than what they knew. Now people know a lot. If you ask people what they know, they know a lot but what they can do is very little. What I am saying is that we have little movement that we have to do. It is a little turn that we will have to do and we will be exploded into a very positive resolution in terms of education. It is the doing which is the problem. The knowing is very high and the doing is very low. In the 50s, the doing was very high and the knowing was very low. That is how I compare them.
So, our policy is and with the help of Parliament and with your help basically is to say let us go for skills big time, because we have the knowledge and we are looking forward to a budget that is focused on those skills, because the design we have already done it. We call it Education 5.0 design where we say from idea to product and through the help of Parliament, we will be able to get there. I am sure that in our life time, we can enjoy this country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President. I do not know whether the Minister of Higher Education can respond to my question because it is for the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: He is not here because
we do not have the Leader of the House. I suggest that you put it down in writing so that it can be forwarded to the relevant Minister.
*HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is
directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. There is a report which we are reading in the newspapers that there were cars of soldiers which were seen entering this country from South Africa. People panicked that these soldiers have come to attack us. I want to ask the Deputy Minister of Defence and War Veterans to explain to this House whether it is true that there are soldiers who came from South Africa, what did they want here? It is our country and we want to know what was happening?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND
WAR VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr.
President for the question by the Hon. Senator that he saw cars coming through the social media. They have not entered physically and they are on the social media. If these cars arrive physically we will tell you.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Local Government. I am saying as the Ministry, what is Government policy regarding the problems faced on water because the country has a lot of problems regarding water supplies?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think again
that question has been asked if my memory serves me right. It was raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos and the Minister responded to that question. So can we have somebody else to fill the question?
*HON. SEN. GWESHE: My question is directed to the Minister of Defence and War Veterans. When you look at the case involving war veterans, may you please explain the steps followed in the vetting of war veterans? We have these youngsters who went to war when they were very young. They left school before they could qualify but when they came back and needed to be compensated, do you segregate that somebody is married or somebody is single? Please explain?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND WAR
VETERANS (HON. MATEMADANDA): Thank you Mr. President. I
am very grateful to Sen. Gweshe for the question she has posed regarding the vetting of war veterans. I am not very sure whether she is talking about the compensation of a dead war veteran, somebody who is alive, some war veteran who passed on before they could be vetted, married or single. May she please explain because I do not see where marital status comes in?
Let me just explain on the processes of vetting these war veterans. There is a clear cut process which is followed, especially when a war veteran died before they could be vetted. I know we face problems because of the changing situations, especially when you are vetting a war veteran who is alive or it is some war veteran who passed on before they could be vetted, married or single. May she please explain because I do not see where marital status comes in?
Let me just explain the process of vetting these war veterans. There is a clear cut process which is followed especially when a war veteran died before they could be vetted. I know we will face problems because of the changing situations especially when we are vetting a war veteran who is alive because they can testify as individuals but those who died during the war rely on relatives or friends who talk about that person. When we are talking about vetting, we need detailed information because if we just do it randomly and however we may think, we may have some people who connive to abuse the system by giving false witnesses on the status of the war veteran.
The other question you may ask is how much was given to that war veteran who died before vetting and whether he/she will be compensated at a similar level with other war veterans. The response is, when did that war veteran die and how did that war veteran die? In most cases, we are using a law which is used to compensate a war veteran who is still alive but we have asked for some amendments so that vetting is also done for war veterans who died before they could be vetted. We also wish that this House would support when we talk about those youngsters who were bombarded by the Smith regime in Chimoio, Tembwe, Nyadzonya, Jason Ziyapapa and all those other places where they are. If that is done, the war veterans will rest in peace. I am sure when that is brought up you are going to support such a Bill. May I remind the Hon. Sen that if they have a specific individual that they are referring to, they can put it in writing and forward it to the correct Ministry for vetting.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: My question is directed to
the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. What is Government policy regarding Government structures especially Government structures in district centres because when you look at the accommodation offered to district administrators, they are in a dilapidated state. Who is responsible for their upkeep and maintenance?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): We have not yet come across a problem of dilapidated structures and houses. So, I am asking the Hon. Member to kindly proffer that information if you have any particular structure which is dilapidated so that we can work on it. We are also encouraging the responsible Ministry to put lodgers in those houses that are not occupied so that they can be maintained.
*HON. SEN. KHUPE: This past Monday, the Committee on
SDGs moved around the country and in Mwenezi district, we saw some buildings which are being destroyed by white ants. We resolved that we could have somebody go and call the Minister to come to the areas and see firsthand. This was not only in Mwenezi but in Chivi also. As we speak, buildings are collapsing. The Minister has asked for names and we have given them to you.
*HON. MHLANGA: When we have been given names we will
be able to go and investigate as well as give proper information to this august House…
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Like has been
said, some of the questions which we have been on the Order Paper have been here since 2018 and this is really unfair. It is wrong and it has got to be corrected and we are going to direct the Clerk to write to the relevant authorities so that the responsible Ministers must come and clear these questions. So, your point and concerns Hon. Senators are noted.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
ASSISTANCE TO TSHOLOTSHO CYCLONE ELINE VICTIMS
- SEN A. DUBE asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to advise the House on whether the Government has plans to assist people who were affected by Cyclone Eline in Tsholotsho to rebuild their houses considering that they have been living in make-shift shelters since 2016.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): I would like to inform the august House that we have built houses for the affected Tsholotsho through the Civil Protection Department. I am in the process of touring these Tsholotsho houses to ensure that they can then be given to the affected families. I thank you.
CONFLICTS REDUCTION ON BOUNDARIES BETWEEN
TRADITIONAL LEADERS
- SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to explain measures being taken to reduce conflicts in relation to boundaries between traditional leaders.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON.
MHLANGA): Yes, the issues of conflicts are there in the traditional boundaries but we would like to suggest that these come in as individual cases so that each case is solved as it comes. I thank you.
ESTABLISHMENT OF INFORMATION CENTRES IN MT.
DARWIN
- SEN. CHIMBUDZI asked the Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services to state when information centres will be established in Mount Darwin to improve access to information by youths and school children.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
KAZEMBE): Hon. President, allow me to thank the Hon. Member once again. Let me begin by highlighting that establishment of community information centres which we call CICs is a national programme. The Ministry’s vision is to see CICs in all the administrative districts of the country and then cascade them to ward level. Once that is done, the youth and the school children will access the much needed information.
POTRAZ has partnered with ZIMPOST targeting the post offices that are all over the country, some of which are not being utilised. It is in these post offices that CICs are being established. In areas where there are no post offices we are deploying what we refer to as Containerised Village Information Centres (CVICs). CVICs wherever they were deployed are not yet functional because electricity is still to be connected.
Turning to your specific question Hon. Senator, in Mount Darwin there is a post office and in that post office a CIC has actually been set up. That CIC is not yet functional because the equipment is still to be installed. Procurement of computers is a challenge for now as you are aware of the national crisis of foreign currency. At the moment, there are 48 CICs which are still to be equipped with computers so that they become functional.
Just for your information as well Senator, at Karanda Mission which is also in Mt Darwin, a CVIC was also deployed and like I said earlier, on electricity is still to be connected. Let me also reveal this to you that under the current 100 day projects which commenced on 7 June
2019, completion of Karanda CVIC is one of POTRAZ’s targets, so we intend to finish within these 100 days.
It is our hope Mr. President, that by September this year the Senator will at least have one CIC that will be functional in Mt. Darwin and the one in Mt. Darwin Centre will also be equipped once computers are sourced. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: On a point of order. Mr. President, the Minister is referring to 100 days. What are those 100 days for? Can he clarify.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you President of the Senate and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for that question. Yes, Government has embarked on 100 day cycles during which we give ourselves targets as ministries to complete certain prescribed or determined targets. So, this particular project is among those projects that we have said to ourselves we need to complete in this 100 day cycle. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a
system of monitoring and evaluation and a planning tool.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Mr. President, it will help us if he explains to say my 100 days is starting from this date to this date so that after the 100 days we can ask him a question to say did you put those information centres in Mt. Darwin where Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi comes from because if he simply says 100 days in January next year he is going to say look, I said 100 days, the 100 days is today in January 2020. So, if he can explain those areas then we can ask him when 100 days is over.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is up to
the Minister really because it is a management tool they are using in Cabinet.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
TELEVISION, RADIO AND MOBILE PHONE SIGNALS IN
BORDER AREAS
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services to inform the House when local television, radio and mobile phone signals will become reachable in border areas of the country as people in these regions continue to use facilities of neighbouring countries such as South Africa, Botswana and Mozambique.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION,
PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. DR.
MUTODI): Thank you Mr. President, this question is touching on two ministries, so I will respond to my part and defer the other part to the Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services. The Minister is in the House.
On the issue of radio and television signal, I want to assure this House that a lot of work is being done by the Government to ensure that we migrate from an analogue system that we have been using to a digital system. The digital system will allow us to not only have more radio and television stations but it will also allow us to have clarity and coverage of all parts of the country, mainly the border areas which have been affected by loss or lack of signal. So, it will actually come with a better signal and also be able to cover all parts of the country; that is for the radio and television.
Also, I need to emphasise that ZBC is now on DTSV. So, the DSTV uses satellite technology which allows cross border transmission of television signal and radio signal. So you will find that you can watch television stations from South Africa while you are in Zimbabwe. You can actually watch Chinese television while you are in Zimbabwe because of the satellite technology. I want to believe the fact that ZBC
is on DSTV has also lessened the chances of it not being accessible to people living on the border areas.
On the issue of lack of communication, it is a concern to the Government that in some areas, in actual fact they do not even know who their President is, especially on the Zambian parts, on the
Mozambican side and so on because they are listening to news from Mozambique, Zambia, South Africa and Botswana. This is also being looked at by the Ministries of Security to ensure that our people can get the correct information about which country they are living in and who is their President and what are the programmes they must follow. This is something that is being prioritised by the Government and we expect that by the completion of the digitalisation programme we will be able to cover all parts of the country sufficiently.
I now defer the issue on mobile phone signals to the Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION
TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES (HON.
KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for asking such a pertinent question. Yes indeed, it is true that we do have areas along the borders where mobile connectivity is a challenge and not only those areas but we also have areas even inland where people do not have access to mobile connectivity. It is our intention to ensure that no one is left behind and everybody is connected. It is our mandate as Government but as you would appreciate, normally the infrastructure is provided by the service providers and in this case we are talking about the mobile network operators; Telecel, NetOne and Econet.
So ordinarily what they would do because these people are in business, they would not go where they feel it is not economically viable. Obviously, they look at the population density and the communication traffic that they are likely to get there. However, as
Government, it is now our mandate to ensure that we fill in that gap, we go there and we install these base stations to ensure that no one is left behind, everybody is connected.
As you would appreciate, currently as Government, we do not have the resources, but we have been trying through POTRAZ using the USF. To date, POTRAZ has already installed about 20 base stations using their own resources, but we have realised we cannot do it alone. So what we have now done is, we are actually seized with the matter. We have discussions around opening up and allowing private companies to come in and install the base stations on a BOT basis and then probably rent them out and also this is in view of our new regulation; that of infrastructure sharing. So, Mr. President Sir, very soon we will be floating tenders where we will be inviting private companies who are resourced to come in and fill in that gap and install base stations in those areas on a BOT basis. I thank you.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR
MANICALAND PROVINCE (HON. SEN. DR. GWARADZIMBA),
the Senate adjourned at Ten Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 30th July, 2019.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 23rd July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EMPOWERED ENTITY TO ADDRESS
CHALLENGES AFFECTING PENSIONERS AND POLICY
HOLDERS
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move the motion standing in my name
that this House:
CONCERNED with the glaring gap in the regulatory framework on matters to deal with administration and compensation of policy holders and pensioners whenever a plethora of irregularities arise, a situation that has resulted in pensioners and policy holders being prejudiced of their benefits.
FURTHER CONCERNED that some administrators of pensions
and insurance services have taken advantage of the economic challenges to cause further prejudice by coming up with inaccurate benefit calculations, engaging in governance malpractices within pension schemes and insurance policies, poor accounting and record keeping and manipulating regulations and legislation to their benefit;
DISTURBED by the complete disregard of the welfare of pensioners by the concerned authorities;
NOW, THEREFORE, resolve that-
- The Executive establishes an adequately empowered entity to address challenges affecting pensioners and policy holders with a view to comprehensively compensate all those who have been prejudiced;
- Pension and insurance legislation be urgently reviewed in order to eliminate loopholes that have been exploited to prejudice policy holders and pensioners;
- New regulatory approaches be introduced in order to cater for the interests of all stakeholders, pensioners and policy holders before the end of this year; and
- The Executive urgently implements recommendations of the Justice Smith Commission of Enquiry on Pensions and Insurance Benefits.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I wish to raise the plight of pensioners and insurance policy holders before this august House and point out the following:
- The pensioners have for a long time faced problems in securing their rightful pensions benefits as a consequence of the following:
- Wrong benefit calculations.
- Disregard of pensioner concerns at all authoritative levels of pension and insurance service provisions despite that pensioners and active members are the real owners of pension funds.
- There are irregularities in pension and insurance service provision in the following areas:
- Investment management. ii. Solvency management. iii. Accounting. iv. Record keeping.
- Governance malpractices of pension and insurance funds. vi. Permissive legislation and regulations.
- Undue long delays in delivery of court judgments on pensioner appeals to the courts and therefore deferring precedence in such cases.
- The Commission of Inquiry was set up under Justice Smith and it confirms these pensioner problems, though the recommendations by the Commission were disputed by pensioners as the main stakeholders, but despite its shortcomings it confirms the prejudice suffered by pensioners.
- The disputes centred on the Commission’s conclusions and recommendations, particularly the recommendation that the Insurance and Pension Commission (IPEC), in its current constitution, form and structure implement a compensation programme when IPEC was responsible for prejudicing pensioners in the first place over many years. Its interests are wholly misaligned to those of pensioners and therefore conflicted.
- IPEC is therefore not fit and proper in accordance with good governance principles and practices. The Commission’s recommendations create a situation akin to that where pensions have to go to someone who has already wronged them for quite some time. The pensioners cannot expect someone who has wronged them for a long time to correct the wrongs of the past. Despite the pensioners disputing the recommendations, the Finance and Economic Development Ministry should never have railroaded the contested recommendations, past pensioners and past Parliamentary procedures of ratifying such Commission reports, into the Transitional Stabilisation Programme and later in the 2019
National Budget.
- A pensioner group (Zimbabwe Pensions and Insurance Rights
Trust (ZimPirt) alerted the Parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Finance and Economic Development about this suppression of pensioners leading to re-engagement and Parliamentary due processes including a hearing by the Portfolio Committee in which
ZimPirt and IPEC made submissions.
- During these hearings, the same problems as above were highlighted and solutions were proposed as follows:
- Set up an independent, adequately empowered body to finalise inquiry work started by the Justice Smith Commission of
Inquiry, to carry out the following;
- Compensate pensioners, policy holders, pension and insurance funds.
- Urgently review pension and insurance legislation comprehensively to eliminate loopholes permitting the pensioner problems.
- Reorganise regulatory frameworks in line with revised legislation, in particular to align regulatory interests to the interests of owners of pension and insurance funds.
- Introduce new regulatory approaches in line with revised legislation and revised regulatory frameworks.
- The recommended implementation strategies were as follows:
- Involvement of all key stakeholders, the pensioners in particular, in a transparent public consultation.
- Integration of pension service provision on the one hand and insurance service provision on the other, thereby reducing regulatory authorities, regulatory approaches, reducing inefficiency and Government expenditure in this regard to a minimum.
- Entrenchment of achievable statutory objectives for both pension and insurance service provision that ensure that financial markets are honest, transparent, fair and effective so that consumers consisting of pensioners get a fair deal.
- Some of the board members which the Minister appointed are compromised. Can the Minister institute an investigation into their conduct because pensioners have accused some of them of being biased and prejudicing them of their savings for a very long time.
Madam President, can this House originate and institute an appropriate legislation to ensure compensation and ease pensioners’ problems as recommended by the pensioners themselves? It turns out that the wrong US$ pension payments now translated to RTGs pension payments are still being calculated from the same actuarial valuations. The Commission established that these are unreliable, inconsistent and generally uninformative in decision making. So, it is very unfortunate because even the pension increases that the Minister mentioned here last week will not help much. We are all going to be pensioners one day. Let us make laws that protect the elderly in our society so that they can live better lives. It is not good to see headlines all the time that read;
Pensioners surviving on hand-outs; Zimbabwe pensioners struggling for survival; Senior citizens suffering in Zimbabwe; Old people face monotony and uncertain future; Zimbabwe fails its citizens; Plight of elderly people worsens; Old peoples’ home gets $700 in 15 years, a
curse to be old in Zimbabwe.
The images of our old people suffering lives leave a lot to be desired back in our constituencies. Let us put on our thinking caps and save our senior citizens. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important motion. I would like also to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos and Hon. Sen. Mavetera, the mover and the seconder.
Madam President, this issue that we are talking about of pensions and insurance, is an old issue that was investigated when the former President was there, Cde Robert Mugabe in 2008. Madam President, when we took our insurance and pensions and we had that hyper inflation, where we understood that it reached about 1000% inflation, our insurance and pensions were completely eroded. So a committee was set up which was led by Justice Smith and that committee came up with recommendations. The recommendations were that the pension houses and insurance houses that had given us that little money should see to it that they compensate us.
Madam President, I always talk about the insurance policy that I had taken with one company which was worth ZW$2.5 million by then. When I went there to now go and be given my final earnings because it had reached its period, the manager congratulated me and he said you are the only one who has got quite a big amount. Madam President, the amount was US$18. When the insurance was ZW$2.5 million he congratulated me for getting US$18 and I said, how can you congratulate me for getting US$18 when my insurance policy was worth ZW$2.5 million. Certainly, it had earned some interest. He said that is what you have got.
Many pensioners went on pension at that particular time. Madam President, what happened is that when we changed from the bearer cheques in 2009 - I still remember we moved to the United States dollar on 2nd January, 2009. Pensioners that had got their pensions were earning zero. It was 0.001, which means they were even earning less than a cent. Organisations had to do financial engineering for them to earn $10 or $5.
Madam President, when that report which was done by Justice Smith came out, it was very clear that these companies need to compensate us, but up to day we have not been compensated. In the report, it was also recommended to say a committee must be set up to now deal with the compensation. Up to today Madam President, no committee has been set up and again, we are going back to that same scenario where at first we were using United States dollars and we were then told by the Finance Ministry to say they are 1:1, if you can remember that. It meant that a person who was getting US$100 would get 100 RTGs. What then has happened is because of the intermarket exchange rate - that person who is getting $100 is mostly getting US$10.
So we are back to the old scenario.
Madam President, we urge this House to lobby the Ministry of
Finance and Economic Development to set up that committee which Justice Smith talked about so that they relook at the insurance and the pensions that we lost. I certainly believe that most of the people that are here are about 40 years and 50 years and I believe they lost some money in that scam that I am talking about, the 2008/2009 scenario and presently that issue is still going on.
Madam President, this House must look into this issue. Madam President, this House must ask the Executive to relook this aspect. They must ask the Executive to go back to the Justice Smith recommendations to look at the issue of insurance and pensions that we lost. We are still losing pensions. What do I mean we are still losing pensions? The people that were better off when they took their pensions in 2007 and lost them in 2009. You then find to say their standards of living went down and they are still suffering because of the losses that they suffered in 2008 and 2009 and more people are getting poorer because of the new situation that we have just entered into. Madam President, we need to
do something. We are the people that are supposed to look at the people that are outside there. We were brought here by those people to look at their lives and welfare.
Madam President, I do not think the Government will be able to look after all these people that have lost their pensions. It was better if we had these pensions going on because then the Government would look at the other people that are not on pension. Madam President, this is an issue that is of national interest. We need to debate this issue and certainly discuss with the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development. Letting go like that will affect not only us, it will affect everyone who has had an insurance, who has had a pension and it would be very difficult to get safety nets to look after those people because where you have people losing their pensions, presently some getting RTGs$20 and with the prices that are there, they can only buy 5kg mealie meal or 10kg mealie meal. It means therefore, if they are living in town they cannot pay for ZESA, municipality rates and cannot even pay for their own medical bills, which means that the Government now needs to move these people into social welfare.
Madam President, this is a very important issue, an issue that affects our society as it stands. We therefore need to move quickly and adopt the recommendations that the mover of the motion has put forward so that we can have a situation where these things are dealt with quickly.
I remember us talking about this issue in the Eighth Parliament and presently, no commission has been set so that it looks at these things that we are talking about. You see a problem solved makes the people that are outside there happy and to recognise the role of Government. Madam President, it is very important that we put our heads together, look at this aspect, lobby the Ministry of Finance and Economic to then deal with this aspect so that we can move forward. Madam President, with those few words, let me thank you for allowing me to speak on this important issue. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: Thank you very much Madam
President. I would like to thank the mover of the motion and two senators who seconded the motion, Hon. Shoko and Hon. Sen. Mavetera. We should first define the term pension. Pension is money that you get after working up to your old age. It is a sign of gratitude from the Government when you have worked and are now old. As I was walking about one day, I passed through banks and realised that most of the old people slept by the Post Office queuing for their pension. I inquired from them and they told me they had come to collect their money which is about $30. They had left their homes a day before to collect this small amount and if they fail to collect the money, they would go back. I asked them what they thought about this issue. They pleaded with me to put their plea to Parliament. My question is, what can one buy with this little amount of money? As the previous speaker has spoken, you cannot even buy a 2kg of sugar with $30. Therefore, Madam President of the Senate, I plead with you and this hon. senate that we try and look into this issue for the sake of our constituents so that they are able to have a living after the retire. It is not good to wait in long queues only to collect $30. The Minister of Finance should look into this very pertinent issue as our parents also worked for this country.
With those few words, I thank you Madam President of the Senate.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Madam President for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on the motion. We realise that when people are employed, pension contribution is compulsory. You will realise that in the past, people were contributing in US dollars at that time but now pensioners are being given pension in Zimbabwean dollars. When we move around town, there are shopping malls. There are shopping malls that belong to various pension and insurance companies, yet the owners of the money are suffering. We plead with the Minister of finance to do an inquiry into this issue and deal with the perpetrators. The insurance companies are still benefiting from the money. People borrow monies to come and collect the pension which is little money as compared to what they worked for. We need to fight for our people. A real commission should be set up to inquire into this issue because most people will die and the insurance companies will remain spending their money.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: I would like to make my contribution to this motion raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos, seconded by Hon. Sen.
Mavetera and Hon. Sen. Shoko. My husband used to be a bus driver. He used to contribute to NSSA. He was hurt about the money he received and he became ill to an extent that he had to visit prophets. Pension money was for one to use after retirement. My next door neighbour is a war veteran. He was involved in an accident and at times he travels to come and get his pension and he finds there is nothing in the account. We need to look into this issue seriously.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam President for your
instance – [Laughter.] – I thought it will be not fair…
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Why I am insisting, I
thought it is an important motion which can touch nearly everyone but I can see some people just looking down.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Absolutely. Thank you very much Madam President. I think this is a very important subject that we are discussing today. Surely, when we leave school or at whatever age we start working and the employer starts deducting contributions – in fact we are told by most employers that they will either match what they deduct from you or they will double what they deduct from you. For you, it is banking for the future for when you are unable to work. This was done in very good faith by most of us who started work in the mid 70s, thinking that by the 2000s, when we are in our 60s – because at that time we were told that no one could be a civil servant after the age of 60, therefore I would be still on a salary not too dissimilar from what I would be receiving at that time. It was all done nicely. I think there is once very big pension house in Southern Africa which is also quoted on the London Stock Exchange which was actually one of the most active pension houses in taking money from workers. When the economy collapsed, no one had the decency to explain to us how much money we had accumulated at that time and what calculations had been done in order to compensate us. To this day, we wrote the money off ourselves.
This is because by that time, we were in quadrillions of dollars, which money was really not meaningful to anybody because in those days, we were receiving something like $200.00 for a university graduate and that was supposed to be a hell lot of money. But still, they had invested and they were still investing. The properties that they invested in were not caught up in this. They are there, were there and are still there. These properties were bought with our monies and it can be established building by building, not only in Zimbabwe but even the whole of Southern Africa where the money came from.
Surely, the people that were contributing at that time should be beneficiaries of any incomes that are accruing from those buildings, but here we are with nothing. We are just old pensioners struggling to sell vegetables in Domboshava and with no hope of ever getting anything again. I think this is really not fair. The same actuaries that they use for calculating pensions are the same people who can be engaged to work out what we are owed because all we need to say is where we worked from which year to what year and they have all those records. They do not lose them but they still have them.
They can work out what they owe us and let us have a descent old age. Our children will never be able to live the life that we lived. They will never be able to buy houses and properties like we did. So, we cannot even be looked after by our children because our children actually look up to us and it is not working at all. I do not think that there is any justice and fairness. It would really be a travesty if Government did not step in to make sure that something was done about
this.
So Madam President in conclusion, I would say that from our point of view, we just want to know what happens to the decisions that we make in this House. Are we debating for the sake of debating and showing to each other our prowess in ability to debate or there is an outcome that is supposed to happen when we have finished debating. This is one of those subjects that cannot possibly be just shelved. We need a conclusion and satisfactory conclusion. Thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MAVERERA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important topic. I would also want to take the same opportunity to thank Hon. Sen. Timveos of raising such a very pertinent issue affecting the entire community or the entire nation. The first thing which we have to take into account, I think Zimbabwe has been very unfortunate because of our economic terms. I remember when I started working I was one of the people and I do not know whether there is any person who took pension policies like myself. I had almost 20 policies and by that time probably when I was going to get to 40 years, I was actually going to be a billionaire if those pensions were something to go by.
There came the disaster in 2008 and we do not need to explain because everyone knows about it. When Old Mutual called me to collect whatever they had computed, I did not go because I was so disappointed because it was very insulting, inhuman and very sensitive. Of course, things went by and we got into the US$ era and we thought probably we could recoup and plan for the last few years of our lives. We had these pensions again in US$. I was contributing US$600 for my pensions until the change of money. Just last week one person from Old Mutual phoned me and said Doctor, we want to review your pensions.
In fact, he phoned about a week ago and I was ignoring him. I then called him to my office. He started talking the same story saying whatever you contributed is nothing and so, we want to look at your age and see if you can contribute something. I said can you do the computation and tell me how much I am supposed to contribute. He said for you now to be able to enjoy whatever you might want, you need to be paying about $3 000.00. I said young man, you are not the one but you are criminals. I do not want to see you.
I actually said I would rather buy a bicycle and when I die, my children will inherit a bicycle than what you are doing. This actually describes the situation we are in as a nation. My biggest question is and I think the other Hon. Sen. raised it. I think we need to know our role. Who gives companies the licence to practice? I think that is a very important question. Where do they derive that licence from? It is actually the Government and who is the Government? It is actually us and we are saying these pension houses are legal entities but we are actually seated here in this august house with all the trust bestowed on us by the populace to create syndicates who are robbing the nation and try to legalise an illegality.
There is no way, whatever you say you can describe what we have experienced as a people as legal. It is morally wrong and when you are in business, you have to be ethical and morally correct. Are these pension houses ethical and morally correct? I do not think that is there. So, it is very sad that the impression that we try to portray from outside is to portray this august House as a talk show because I heard from my fellow Senators who were in the 8th Parliament that this issue was debated, but here were are still today debating and nothing of whatever was contributed was implemented. So, are we also as a Government short changing the people?
Unfortunately, I will say yes we are. We have actually let the people down. What I am saying is that instead of us – because you know the tragedy with our country is when we now go to talk about the issues of pensions, you actually go and consult those criminals to give you advice. What advice do you get? You do not get anything and now those criminals are so sophisticated that even statutory bodies which we create as a Government are infiltrated with those criminals and they are employed.
I think Hon. Sen. Timveos has actually highlighted the defects in the structures of these pension houses and also as well as the institutions which we have created as Government. When someone has worked 20 years in the pension field, he is a shareholder. How do we as a Government, allow that person to be the chairperson of that important – they will sit down, you will regard them as experts, they will give you information and they will continue to sit when our people are suffering. I think our Constitution recognises the importance of the role played by our elders. Pensions are not given to youngsters but to elders, why? Because they have made us where we are today and it is because of our forefathers.
As such, I think our Constitution says the State has a duty to make sure that it looks after the elderly and there are certain rights which are actually prescribed by our Constitution which the elderly should enjoy. As we are sitting here, our primary duty is to uphold and defend the Constitution as well as to see that it is implemented correctly. Is that happening? So, what are we doing Hon. Senators? I think we really need to be very serious. We formulate laws, so let us create a law which is conducive and will benefit our population. I would definitely say we may debate this issue now and again but with the current legislative framework which governs these institutions we are not going to go anywhere. What we need is an overhaul or a revolution to change these laws. We do not need to refer to a defective law, otherwise we would remain colonised while the whites would still be ruling because there were laws which barred us from going to war. This is exactly what we are following because we do not learn. Let us not look at the current legislative framework which is there to govern pensioners because it was crafted by people with an ulterior motive.
I do not want to dwell or go deeper into what other members have contributed in terms of what assets are. If you move around Harare, 90% is Old Mutual. They can even afford to be listed on the
Johannesburg and London Stock Exchange. Where is that capital coming from? Do you think it is coming from England? No, it is coming from us ladies and gentlemen yet we are sitting here and probably some of us given free fibbies. What I am saying is that these structures or pension houses are legalised criminal syndicates and we are complicit in allowing them to continue the way they are. When they come to you and you take a pension scheme, it has got objectives. They actually sit down with you and calculate the kind of life you are living and say when you retire you should be able to live the same type of life. They calculate it based on the poverty datum line.
I would propose that the legal framework which we need to initiate should be looking at what we expect our pensioner to enjoy when they get to their pensionable years rather than these figures. We can even go on to speculate and say probably these pension houses are also architects of economic sabotage and show that when they have accumulated a lot, they create inflation so as to get everything then start again. This is exactly what is happening and it is very sad when as Government, we call for a round table discussion on the economy or the state of the economy. If you observe, those are the people who will be sitting at the high table and being referred to as captains of industry. However, I will call them captains of robbery.
This is an emotional issue Mr. President which we need to treat with the urgency and importance it deserves. We can no longer allow our people to be exploited. All the funny and fancy buildings, shopping malls in the country are owned by pension houses but you tell me a pensioner who contributed that is now getting $10 which is not enough even for bus fare. Is that morally correct and can we sit here as a Government saying we are looking and exercising the mandate which was bestowed upon us by the people? I do not agree Mr. President Sir.
I think with all due respect, what we need is not an amendment but we need to revolutionalise the way our pension schemes are operated within this country because it is now a trend and not an accident. As such, you will never get people contributing and that puts a burden to look at people who should be able to look after themselves because they contributed something. Now, they are at the mercy of these people and the State has an obligation to look after all those people. We can do it much better by enacting enabling laws that are people friendly rather than what we are experiencing at the moment. I thank you.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Hon. President. This topic is really touching on the nerves of the nation. We hardly see the Ministers responsible coming to listen when we are debating these motions. I think it is important that Ministers who are responsible for certain institutions, especially when a motion comes they avail themselves when we debate so that they will be able to take notes. It will be difficult for them to follow the Hansard and be able follow all these brilliant arguments. So my point of order is - what can we do to ensure that Ministers who end up bringing the correct legislation and also the corrections as debated here should be in Parliament when we are debating?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you
Hon. Sen. Mudzuri. I share the same sentiments with you and we will make efforts to bring that to the attention of the Executive.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on this motion. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Senator Timveos and her seconder Hon. Sen. Shoko. I almost developed cold feet on this motion because I was ashamed to talk about it. I fought with my husband after he went to collect his pension from POSB. He came back with a bottle of cooking oil, a cabbage and 2kg salt because I had given him a grocery list. This pension issue is a shame and it is painful. My grandfather managed to build his house using money he got as pension. He worked as a mere garden boy but managed to build his house, buy cattle and till the land using his pension. Where did our original Zimbabwean dollar go to? Maybe it is the cause of all this suffering. Where did the gold that was used in making this money go?
Did the white people go with it or someone has it?
Mr. President, this issue is a very serious matter, more-so for people in the rural areas. There is a certain man from Chegutu who is on pension. He has no cattle but planned to buy some when he received his pension. His younger brother who has always stayed in the rural areas has cattle but is refusing to lend them to him for tilling the land because he says you were employed and you told me that you were going to buy cattle using money from your pension, as a result he has to book cattle from others. It is unfortunate that he can only buy 2 litres cooking oil, cabbage and 2kgs of salt yet he worked for a certain company for 30 years.
As we are debating here in this House, I can see that only one side of the House is agreeing with what I am saying and is sympathising with pensioners. It maybe that some of us are getting pension because they are just quiet and seem not to be pained by the present situation.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order
Hon. Sen. Moeketsi. Just debate on the issue and not how other Senators are reacting to the debate.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: It pains me because this issue affects not only me but all of us. I have observed that some Senators do not seem as affected as some of us.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order,
order. Let us get things right. We do not have to debate this motion today all of us. We can still debate, I do not know how many more weeks. So like I said, leave that issue of who is talking, who is not. Just debate the motion. It is a very important motion and I have given you the floor.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President. The issue of pension is very painful. As a House, we should look into the issue of those pensioners who are suffering out there in the rural areas. Those pensioners in the rural areas are not the only ones that are suffering; we also have some Senators who are also receiving a paltry $35 or $30.
This House should look into this issue.
There are some people who were looking after those pensioners in the rural areas who were looking forward to receiving groceries when the pensioners go and withdraw their pensions, resulting in them not being well looked after. This issue should be dealt with the urgency it deserves. It should be addressed by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Long back pensions used to sustain the elderly pensioners but looking at today’s situation, that money cannot buy anything because most basic commodities are beyond the reach of many. The money is so little that it is no longer enough even for transport money to and from the bank when they go to collect their pensions. With those few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me the opportunity to contribute to this important motion by Hon. Sen. Timveos seconded by Hon. Sen. Shoko. This is indeed a very painful issue on pension. Pension is very important because for our fathers and ourselves who worked for many years there was pension. As the Parliament of Zimbabwe, we are an arm of Government and therefore we should act on this issue.
We attained independence after seeing that we were an oppressed people and we looked forward to a better life as independent people.
There is a saying that goes – ‘we live in a world of changes’. During the
Constitution making process, we worked in unity with different political parties; that is the ruling party ZANU-F, the MDC and other lesser parties. We worked together and came out with our Constitution.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Chirongoma, do not refer to them in that derogatory language. They are Hon. Members also.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: We sat together as Hon. Members and came out with our Constitution. This issue on pensions affects all of us and we are here together as Senators of Parliament of Zimbabwe. We were all affected by the hyper inflation in 2008. During the Government of National Unity when we had a Minister from another political party heading the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development, our pensions were still eroded by inflation. So, we should look into this issue.
We heard the Minister of Finance and Economic Development speaking on how sanctions had negatively affected our country. We used to have financial institutions that would come and lend us money to help lift our economy in times of need such as these, but they no longer do that because we are under sanctions. As a result, we are suffering through our pensions, minimum payouts. Let us work out new ideas -we have experts amongst us, even our offspring who are well vested in financial language. I know we may debate until the cows come home, but let us look for a way whereby the Minister comes to this debate, we will tell him what we want and make our contributions so that we solve the problem of pensions. When we put our words together, we are definitely going to progress. Hon. Sen. Mavetera, in his contribution he said these pensions and insurance houses which were collecting the money have many properties, including shopping malls and we are saying that now they have all these buildings which they built collecting money from us, why do we not craft a law that will enable us to take over those properties and buildings and sell them. When we sell them, we can payout the pensioners who are suffering. We need to address these problems together – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I really think we need
to grow up. Order! Take your seat. I need to explain something. Hon.
Senators, I think our Constitution is also very clear that for anybody to be eligible to be a senator, you must be 40 years and above. I think that was done for a purpose. You need matured people to sit in the Upper
House so that you can sit back and have a rational approach to issues.
Our Constitution is very clear. It has one of the most comprehensive Bill of Rights – freedom of expression and people have entitlement to their own views. You might have very strong views about sanctions, you might think they were caused by a, b, c, d and he might have his own strong views about sanctions. Listen to what somebody is saying politely and maturely. There is no need to laugh, heckle and behave as if whoever is speaking is an idiot. This House is made up of Hon. Senators. Hon. Chirongoma, you may proceed.
*HON. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President. I am begging Hon. Senators that we put our heads together and find a solution to this problem regarding insurances and pensions. I am sure if we do that we will be able to come out with a solution. This country and this
Senate have capable Ministers who can solve our problems. We talked about issuance of licences to pension houses and insurance houses and we are saying, let us not stop issuing these licences but we should control them. It is painful for a worker to work until they can work no more because they reached pensionable age and at the end, they are not given out a descent payout for their pension. I am calling for the togetherness and oneness of the Senate so that we can adopt progressive ideas for the benefit of the nation.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution to the motion moved by Hon. Sen. Timveos, seconded by Hon. Sen. Shoko. At times, we may trivialise this motion but it is very important because it is talking about our livelihood and our lifestyle when we talk about insurance companies and pension houses. If we look around all the buildings, especially these sky scrapers they were constructed by insurance companies and they own these buildings. They constructed these buildings using contributions from workers.
Hon. Sen. Timveos has brought up a very important motion. Let me quote her, she said, let us review the terms and conditions on the operations for these pensions and insurances. I know as Zimbabweans at times you believe in that there is no hurry in Africa, we take our own time and approach issues lackadaisically when we look at issues in the country. There are all people who are working and those on pension who cannot get their money. We cannot get our money and the unfortunate situation is that the moneychangers in the streets have more money.
At times, you get the feeling that these insurance and pension companies are fuelling the black market in the streets. As
Zimbabweans, I believe we have some problems with us because we see some people who will be carrying heavy loads of money and I am suspecting that they are paid by the insurance or pension companies.
Thank you Hon. Sen. Timveos.
You talked about a commission of inquiry which was led by
Justice Smith and we need to look at the findings of that commission and study that document so that we look at their findings. As Senate, we then look at the recommendations by this Commission. I am sure this could be the starting point. I also thank Hon. Sen. Mavetera who has said we are the Government and we are the lawmakers. One of our duties besides lawmaking process is the oversight. I had a brother who was employed at the Causeway Post Office but has since retired. He is asthmatic and now a pensioner. The unfortunate situation is that he is not able to purchase the inhaler to control the asthma attacks yet he has been working since year 1980.
Are we content when all the money we contributed goes to waste and cannot benefit from it. I worked for a long time in the Ministry of Local Government and one of my responsibilities was paying out pensions. Some of the pensioners would tell you, I had to travel on foot to come and collect my pension because I thought that if I borrowed money for transport to collect this amount, I may not be able to repay that credit. We know that it is in the statutes of the country which state that a worker should be given their pension and you start wondering why a pensioner should be suffering at the end of their working life. Pensioners are now living like convicts paying for what they have worked for. A pensioner when they die should be given a descent burial because they have worked in the past and they are now benefiting. However, when we are burying them, we give them a pauper burial. We are contented that this person has been given a decent burial when in actual fact it is a pauper’s burial because they did not get the benefit that they were supposed to be getting from these organisations.
We are saying as Zimbabweans, let us craft a law which is aimed at protecting these pensioners. An Hon. Member contributed in this debate saying there was a pensioner, her grandfather who was able to collect his pension and construct a nice home in the rural areas, buy cattle and all what is needed in draft power. Therefore, I am saying as Members of this august House let us work hard and get a way of solving this problem because what you should know is that it is today’s pensioners who are suffering, but tomorrow we are also growing old and we will be pensioned off and we will not be able to live off our pension.
I am saying as the representatives of the people, we need to craft laws which are aimed at protecting the rights of the people of Zimbabwe. As Hon. Members of this august House, on our oversight role, we need to ask ourselves as to who are these people who own these insurances and pension houses? Do we know them because from our debates they are invisible?
Therefore, what we need is to get enough information so that when we are talking about the problem faced by pensioners and insurances, we will know who we are directing our facts to and hence, we need to make thorough investigations, research and at times there is need for us to invite these people to come to our Committees so that we hear whatever it is that we are saying so that when we debate and when we make these reports, we are making them from a well calculated point of view.
An Hon. Sen. also made a contribution and said somebody can be a board member for 40 years in some of those organisations. When somebody stays for such a long time such as 40 years in one place, on one job that is where corruption develops. Therefore, we are saying
when we are working we should benefit because pensions and insurances are a form of gratitude for what one will have worked for and you will be showing off what you did with the pay outs on your insurances. It is quite painful when one retires and they do not get anything. We need to revise our insurances and pensions so that we can determine our future. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to convey my few words to say if all the words that are being spoken in this House can be heard and taken further so that action can be taken. What is so painful right now is that pension is supposed to cater for a person who has retired but that is no longer the case. It is now spending whilst you are standing up. Someone fell ill recently because they received $28. They failed to access that $28 because it was saying the money was insufficient. That money could not even buy tablets for that person who was suffering from high blood pressure.
People ended up contributing to assist that person which is so painful because you were hoping that your money will take care of all your needs after you retire but that will not be the case. If you see queues or people waiting for money to access their pensions and they fail to access that money, they travel from rural areas and they cannot even go back. If only they could be given specific dates to go and access their money so that they specifically on those days because there are no Post Offices in the rural areas. When they go to town, they realise that that money is not there and they end up sleeping on the floor outside the banks on queues.
There are some people who have ailments that are aggravated by the cold weather. The money that they will be looking for will not be even enough for them to access medication. All of us as we sit here, we are taking care of our parents who are pensioners. If they get $28, that money is not even enough to cater for their needs. I am grateful for all those parents who have many children and are taken care of by them.
There are some parents who have so many children but they are not taken care of by those children.
Even us children we are supposed to take care of our parents from those pensions but we fail to do that. So, if only money from pensions especially NSSA can be reviewed so that they are sufficient to cater for people’s needs. I remember some years ago where there was a lot of news and talk about NSSA acquiring so many assets but we did not hear about what happened later about that report. That issue was never taken further. That issue must be revived and those issues must be looked into. Some of the monies are remaining behind and sometimes you hear information that money is transferred into wrong accounts and when the reviews are made, they do not bear any fruit.
Those monies should be scrutinised thoroughly so that we know how that money is being spent. Sometimes we hear that someone took a loan from pensioners’ money but we do not hear them returning that money. They get that money and invest successfully whilst the pensioners remain suffering. Let us stop harassing pensioners. We are also going to be pensioners and that is what is going to happen to us also. All the pension organisations must all be scrutinised.
Those people who are running pension organisations must be thoroughly scrutinised because some of those organisations are just coming up in order to make money. Some of the people might be coming from pensioners and so, they must be thoroughly scrutinised because they are only after money spinning. They must be scrutinised to check if they are relaying that money to the pensioners, the intended beneficiaries. If they get that money, they do not return it to the intended beneficiaries. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: Thank you very much Mr.
President for affording me the opportunity to also contribute to this motion raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos, seconded by Hon. Sen. Mavetera. I would like to say just three words on this issue of pensions. As I speak on my own behalf, I do not understand what pension is, where it is made, by who, of what benefit to the country and for what results or contribution. In the past, if you went to the Post Offices you would see very long queues from here to Chitungwiza and if you asked them they would tell you that they were waiting for pensions. But is this pension money that you are supposed to be given by Government because if it is the money that you contributed and was deducted from your earnings it means at 60 you are supposed to earn that money. That person who is over 60 years waits for money for a long time but do not even get it. I really do not understand when Government is there.
Recently, what I do not understand is that if it is law that is made by both Houses, I have not heard about those laws and how they are made concerning pensions. They come and say if you employ someone who works for 2 weeks they tell you that the person is supposed to earn a pension. But we used to hear that if you employ someone over a long period of time those are the persons who are supposed to stay at that company and earn pension and long term benefits. Now we hear that if has changed.
So, if it is a policy or law that has been made, why do we not also hear Parliamentarians debating that if someone is employed even on temporary basis they are supposed to be given pensions? We are supposed to know where that is debated. If you hear that someone is supposed to earn a hundred dollars they refuse, they do the calculations for you and they tell you that we are calculating on $200, $300 or $500 and they tell you that your employee is supposed to earn so much and also tell you that you give that person so much. Then they give that person little money that is not worth buying anything. Where does the rest of the money go to? That is what we would like to find out. If our parents who earn these pensions are supposed to earn that money to take care of them later, that should happen. If it is not working then let us change the laws because it does not help. Since a long time ago we used to hear that people will be earning certain amounts of money but those monies are now worthless.
I recently heard the Minister saying that the pensions are supposed to be reviewed to $200 but when it comes to the actual paying out they get far much less money. Why do we not make sure that the person who earned that money work out on their own how much they are supposed
to be given so that they work out the correct value of the amount they are supposed to earn.
Another thing that I would like to contribute on this motion – because I also realised that I am now about to be a pensioner. What troubles me is that in the previous Parliament, this issue was debated and in this Parliament again we are debating the same issue. So, why do we debate the issue if whatever we debate is not effected? That is the reason why some of the time you see us not participating in motions and debates because we do not see the results. There are Ministers and all other Government officials who are supposed to take care of these issues. We have realised that this thing is not working. These pension houses have big assets yet the intended beneficiaries are not getting anything. So I think it is also wise that they stop deducting those pensions. Thank you very much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President. The challenge of pension is a challenge to everyone. As we were growing up, we used to hear Paul Mukondo saying “itayi cent cent vakomana inini ndachona” because there was a plan that when we retire we would have something to fall on from what we would have saved. It was apparent that we could not keep money on our own till retirement, so we had some people who chipped in so that they could give us on retirement. However, what we see now - for example in 1987, I was contributing $40 a month in anticipation of getting $1 million in 2000. When demutualisation came into effect people started losing their properties to those who were clever and we only got $14k. That is how we lost our money. Many people in this house went to school using insurance monies. Those insurance companies employ a lot of people but because it has lost its meaning no one is able to sell an insurance policy. This is two pronged as I see it. From the law side, it is not straight. If there are programmes dealing with inflationary issues they are not looking at what the beneficiaries will get. If we are working on a one on one parity rate and then the rate moves up to 1:10, it should follow suit. That is where our problem is. So people were contributing a lot of money thinking of the future benefits but they would get diminished returns, useless money. Now, no one is banking money. As Parliament, we should come up with laws which give confidence to our citizens so that whatever they put in they should reap accordingly. If I am no longer getting the money that I contributed as pension you have destroyed me because it is my human right. I invested for my future life by contributing today. I should get my meaningful returns.
There are a lot of buildings here in town and the companies that own them are in the balance sheets and we are shown the accounts. Members of the respective companies know what the balance sheet looks like but it is like that because of my contribution from the $2 that I earn. So as law makers, what are we doing to strike a balance between the one who contributed who is the owner of the building and those who are squandering the money?
Some three years back, there were a lot of reported cases of corruption. In some instances, there was amalgamation of these insurance companies. This was caused by a lot of funds which were collected as subscriptions by pensioners but these insurance executives viewed these funds as personal property and hence abused them.
When we are talking of corruption and underhand dealings in this country we will find that the main perpetrators and culprits are these insurance companies. They have no respect for contributions made by members, instead they personalise these funds for their own corrupt use. Parliament should take measures to hold these organisations to account so that they give a detailed account of how they would use members subscriptions and contributions. They should show Parliament their balance sheets and banking details on these subscriptions. These companies should also give details of benefits accrued by the pensioners.
We have heard of cases where some of these insurance and pensioner executives award themselves hefty packages to enable them to construct mansions in low density areas such as Umwinsidale and yet pensioners are suffering in acute poverty despite their contributions in the rural areas where most of the pensioners retire to.
Some of these pensioners are village heads who get a pay-out of $25 per month which is not enough to care for his daily needs. In some instances, these village heads end up selling State land to sustain their living. They can even sell grazing pastures, wetlands and any other piece of land set aside for special purposes. Every human being works for a better future and a better life. When the opposite happens, people turn to other devious means for survival such as corruption.
When a worker is contributing towards insurance and pension the aim is to live a happy life on retirement. This calls for the need of proper legislation aimed at protecting the targeted benefits by the worker on retirement. If we do not do that, people will turn to the stated devious and corrupt means of earning a living.
If these insurance and pension companies follow proper marketing and administration strategies they will attract more investors which means more money. The current situation is that there are very few people who will like to invest in insurance policies or take up pensions because there is no return on investment.
We have seen some NSSA official who mobilise farm workers so that they can be registered with them. When we ask about the benefits there is no proper explanation. We need to craft a law which will set out clear ground rules on the handling of public funds. At the moment, there is a mismatch of what should be happening legally and what is actually happening on the ground.
I have a cousin of mine of the Gumbo totem who was a prison officer in the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Service who was pensioned off. I advised him to buy property in Glen Norah in Harare but as a true African man he wanted to show his wife who was in the rural areas his benefits. When he returned from home, the financial benefit had been eroded by inflation. He could not even afford to buy a wheelbarrow. If we craft proper legislation future generations will be grateful for what we would have done for them regarding pensions.
In the rural areas, we have noticed that some of these people who are pensioners die within three months of their relocation. This is caused by the change in lifestyles from the time they were working to the time of pension. There is a very big difference. Some of them end up falling victims to chronic illnesses such as high blood pressure, stress and diabetes. According to our culture, when a husband dies immediately after retirement the blame is placed squarely on the wife. I will repeat that we need to legislate for posterity. I am glad that at one time the Government advised financial institutions to repay investors in the finances they had invested such as the United States dollar.
Dynamics starts with the people. Let us legislate for the people.
Good legislation will lead to honest workers. At the moment, honest workers are mocked at by their fellow workers who tell them that at the end of their working life they will not benefit anything because of the galloping inflation, corruption and insurance systems. They advise them to make hay while the sun shines, steal from the company, embezzle funds, and indulge in corruption to compensate for their loss in future. They are told that honesty does not pay.
*HON. SEN. GUMPO: I was a businessman, managing director, whose empire stretched from Karoi to Kariba and had about 300 workers under me. All these workers including me contributed their pensions through NSSA. As I stand here, I am a pensioner who is collecting $60 per month. If I am getting such pittance, what more of my former workers!
I was impressed by the report on the Budget and Finance Thematic Committee which I feel we should emulate and pass resolutions for the benefit of pensioners. I have noticed that most of the motions raised, 70% to 90% of them are not debated to conclusion but they are left suspended. That is why I have said this is an important motion, let us see it through. I am suggesting that one of those Committees such as
Budget and Finance should move a motion which delegates one of our Thematic Committees to look at this matter of pensions so that this motion will be debated fully. We have realised that 70 to 90% of the motions are not debated to conclusion in this Senate. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. NEMBIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I will add my voice onto the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Timveos on pensions and insurances. We live with about 75% of pensioners in the rural areas, they are part of us and are living in poverty. Some of them are dying before they can access their pension or insurances. Some of them have not been given information on how they can access the pension or insurances. I am calling for the construction of a database on the pensioners and their whereabouts because as chiefs, we have problems. We have these people in rural areas and I am saying if you want to make a successful business venture, please create an insurance company and you will get money from those people. We have the boards running these organisations, I only hope that some of the people in these boards are pensioners because they live it and they feel it. We also need the chiefs to be part of that boards because as I stated, 75% of those people are in rural areas. Most of these people are dying in poverty because they cannot access their insurance and pension. Some of the documents are written in small print and the financial legal jargon used is too detailed for a pensioner to understand what they are supposed to say. That is why we are saying, let us encourage these pensioners and insurances to craft documents that are easy to understand so that the pensioner when making an undertaking, will know that the beneficiaries when he passes on are immediate members of the family.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th July, 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need of the enforcement of the law on child marriages.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution regarding the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. I am very grateful for bringing in such a constructive and progressive motion. Mr. President, we have this adage which encourages us to look after our children because when we grow old, they will also look after us. When they were debating this issue, they were looking at themselves because they were born by their parents who have since passed on. I am saying it is essential that we look after our offspring so that when we grow old, they will take care of
We have had cruel situation whereby a child is raped by somebody elderly, in most cases, somebody who has some wealth and you will notice that the family of the raped girl is not able to seek litigation for that rape case because the person is rich. At times, you will notice that they will be subordinates to the rapist; as a result, they cannot go and report them. We have also noticed that when that rapist has committed that heinous crime, they then offer to marry that little girl as young as 13 years of age. This is disturbing future lives of young girls who would be responsible to look after us when we grow old. We know some of these things happen because of poverty in the country.
Hon. Sen. Tongogara said, there is a difference in our lifestyles from the past and present. In the past, we had young girls who were married off because they wanted to benefit from such a marriage. If you have made the mistake of marrying a young girl, nobody will take care of you these days. Therefore, let us create a law which is aimed at correcting these anomalies and protecting young girls from early marriages. Whosoever is responsible for that should be guilty of an
offence....
Cell phone rings.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I do not
know whether I should say this wearing a mask or what. Hon. Senators are reminded that when you come into this House, put your phones on silent or switch them off. They are a destruction. You may proceed.
*HON. SEN. WUNGANAYI: Thank you Mr. President. I was saying we need to create a law which is aimed at parents who marry off underage girls. When a 13 year old is married off, that is to their disadvantage because in most cases that child will be divorced by that man who would have envied here. I am glad I have some of the
Members of Parliament calling for the presence of Ministers to come when we are debating these issues because they will benefit from what we will have gathered from the constituencies where we come from. When they will have heard that, they will support these laws and protect the people of Zimbabwe. There is no diabolic crime as disturbing the life of a young child. We should know that we are not the first generation nor are the last. We are giving each other terms of living on this earth. As Senators, let us put our heads together and craft laws aimed at protecting the young girls. We have noted that some of these girls go to school. When the father has no money to pay for school fees, the only way to move out of their problem is to marry off the young girls. They are not creative to look for ways of funding fees for their girls. I remember the idea of marrying off little girls used to happen in some certain religious denominations but as of now, they have since followed Government encouragement that they cease this custom of marrying off underage girls.
I know in some areas in this country that still have a culture of marrying off young girls as young as 13 to 15 years. This is against the Constitution of the country. I am calling upon parliamentary
Committees to move into those areas and pass on the knowledge to these people so that our children will have a future.
We have had some young girls dropping out of school, especially primary and they get married for two or three years and there is a divorce because this is a young and immature mind. When they are divorced, they come back to their parents and they become a burden to their parents and we are saying we need to change this education. Hon. Sen. Tongogara, I am very grateful for the motion which you introduced in this august House because it is talking about our culture. I want to repeat that we are not the first and last generation, but we have had people before us and we have people who will be coming after us. We are not going to have any progress if we do not correct this problem now for the benefit of the future.
Once again, Hon. Sen. Tongogara, thank you for this motion and thank you Hon. Members who supported your motion. I am saying if we can follow this motion and implement it, Zimbabwe will have a bright future. We talk about even the animals, in their animal kingdom, they also have rules and regulations. We notice that they also have a culture which says the youngsters should be protected and the elders protect the youngsters with their lives. So why should animals be better thinkers than us human beings who were created in the God-like image? Therefore, I am saying let us learn from these creatures such as this because we know that animals are very jealous and protective of their young ones, what more of human beings. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Mr. President. First of all I would like to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Tongogara on child marriages. The Hon. Sen. showed her concern as a mother, especially looking at the fate of the girl child. Mr. President, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to second and debate this very important motion. Most girls who are married as children are more likely to experience domestic violence and have a lower status in the society because too often child brides are denied their rights to pursue their education, employment or even entrepreneurial opportunities.
The Marriage Amendment Bill hopefully, would consolidate marriage laws and above all criminalise child marriages and this would be the first step by Government to end these unions. Furthermore, they will be need to look broader and also address the route cause with the law in place. Government and other players like the very important institutions of our traditional leaders, church leaders and other stake holders including us Senators in this august House should join hands in addressing the specific drivers of child marriages in the country.
In other countries, child marriages are attributed to poverty, gender discrimination and lack of education. In our country, the belief that a girl child is somehow inferior to the boy child is also a contributing factor. We can have the laws but the culture can continue and in many cases go unreported at the expense of the girl child. In many rural communities where child marriages are rife, girls are not given the same value as boys and they are widely perceived as a burden to their families.
This has led to marrying off young girls below the age of 18 as a cushion of economic hardships and as a way of transferring the burden to the husband’s family. Mr. President, vigorous education across the board that all children are equal regardless of sex need to be undertaken in those communities with the help of our traditional leaders who are respected in their communities, if families start valuing their children as
equals, they would not marry off young girls.
Parents should also be educated that it is their duty to support the girl child as they would do for the boy child and see them both finish school and become empowered individuals who can make bold
decisions in their lives.
Mr. President, educational levels among adolescent girls from
Zimbabwe’s poorest households are more likely to marry before the age of 18 unlike girls who live in the richest households. This should be corrected through Government intervention. Education should be affordable and preference should also be given to girls so that they can continue with their studies even if their parents cannot afford.
Religious sects should receive massive education to end these child marriages as many desperate Zimbabweans always give in to the command of the man of cloth without questioning the logic of the issue at hand. There are members of certain churches who are said to be encouraging girls as young as 10 to marry old men for spiritual guidance. Mr. President, on the other hand, men in other churches are said to be entitled to marry girls to shield them from premarital sex; they should be furnished with the new marriage laws and the consequences they should expect if they do not abide by the law. Child marriage is a global evil with recorded socio-economic and health disenfranchisement of its victims. The facts of child marriages are therefore dire and if the problem is not addressed, it causes a serious direct threat to the country’s efforts towards attainment of sustainable development goals.
Child marriages often results in children being alienated from the school system and in the process shattering them away from capacity realisation and development or even empowerment opportunities that could lift them and their society out of poverty. It also results in rampant violation of human rights and social exclusion as brides are exposed to inequality, domestic violence, and lack of choice about their sexual reproductive and developmental rights. With every child bride, the country loses a future teacher, doctor, scientist or even a political leader Mr. President.
In conclusion Mr. President, statistics show that we have more women than men. However, why are men the perpetrators? Instead of going for extra women, they go for the girl child. How would you feel when your own girl child is the victim and you are the father? Mr. President, as Senate, I think we have a mammoth task of coming up with legislation that will deal once and for all with perpetrators of this child marriage. Lastly, I would like to thank again Hon. Sen. Tongogara for bringing to this august House this very important motion. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 24th July, 2019.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA), the Senate
adjourned at Twenty One Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I move the motion standing in my
name that;
COGNISANT that Section 73 of the Constitution obligates the State to protect the environment for the benefit of present and future generations through reasonable legislative and other measures that prevent pollution and ecological degradation, promote conservation and secure ecologically sustainable development and use of natural resources;
ALSO COGNISANT that wild animals depend on the environment
as a habitat and source of food;
CONCERNED that human beings are endangering the survival of wild animals through unsustainable harvesting of wild fruits which results in human and wildlife conflict;
FURTHER CONCERNED that environment management
agencies are failing to adequately protect the environment as indigenous fruit trees continue to be cut indiscriminately, thereby depriving wild animals of their source of food and shelter.
NOW, THEREFORE, resolves to-
- enact a law that prohibits the bulk harvesting and selling of wild fruits and policies that boost agricultural production in order to revive local industry thereby improving citizens source of livelihoods;
- call upon Government to adequately empower the Environmental Management Agency (EMA), including recruitment of a sufficient number of Environmental Officers to enable the agency to effectively execute its mandate;
- recommend to the Ministry of Environment, Tourism and
Hospitality Industry and Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to strengthen collaborative efforts towards protection of the environment, particularly, to stop the cutting of trees.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President. If you
can recall Section 73 of the Constitution speaks to how we treat certain areas. In future, children may never know some of the trees like msasa or muzhanje. What disturbs me mostly is when we get to a time when wild fruits get ripe, we go into the forest to get those wild fruits, thereby depriving wild animals of their source of food. That is why we come across problems of wild animals ending up going into areas where people live because people are finishing all the fruits that wild animals are supposed to eat.
At my age, I have never heard of a baboon going into a house to take food but they are now forced to do this because there will be no wild fruits for them. God gave us fruits to grow for ourselves and wild animals were also given fruits for their survival. We are not forbidden to eat wild fruits but we should limit ourselves. We should use those wild fruits equitably. We should collect just a bucket of mazhanje only and leave some for the wild animals.
Madam President, there is now a conflict between women and wild animals. Therefore, I call upon the Government, especially those responsible for forests especially EMA and those who safeguard trees from being chopped will-nilly to take care of our forests. They are being destroyed. There are a lot of things that are destroying forests right now because of several problems that people are encountering. I suggest that EMA increases its staff complement to monitor cutting of trees because during the time when the wild fruits are ripe, that is when a lot of trees are destroyed and also a lot of holes are dug. Some of these holes become dangerous to human beings because they just dig and leave them there. Sometimes even our domestic animals fall into those holes. I suggest that the laws be strengthened to deter people from going into the bush to harvest wild fruits but we should do it equitably so that wild animals also have food to eat. We are provoking the animals by taking their food and this is the reason why they are also attacking us or destroying our crops.
I am emphasising that EMA should make sure that the forests are safeguarded because when they are not safeguarded, they get destroyed especially when there are no monitors. Madam President, even people who live in rural areas should also monitor and report to the Chiefs if they see anomalies on how wild fruits are harvested. With these few words, thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Thank you for giving me this opportunity and also let me thank Hon. Sen. Chifamba for bringing this important motion and Hon. Sen. Timveos for seconding the motion.
This is an issue that talks about protection of the environment. What is happening out there is an unfortunate situation. We now have got what we call artisanal miners or “makorokoza”. The artisanal miners go out there and start cutting trees and start digging and when they leave that place they leave it unprotected because there are big holes that they will have opened. This act on its own is even dangerous to the human beings and animals that we rear. The animals that we rear when we send them out there and because of these traps that are set which are deep, sometimes the animals fall inside and when you look for your animal you might not even get it because it is underground. That on its own is another terrible situation that happens when the environment is grossly degraded.
I understand why they are doing that because there is unemployment which is standing at 95% and I believe it is going up. Therefore they have to eke out a living but we then need to balance the situation with the environment. If you want them to continue doing it what we then need to do is we have to bring them into the formal sector and discuss with them issues of safety. Besides the safety that I am talking about, the safety for themselves is also not very adequate, because sometimes we have heard that a lot of people perished in these particular holes where they go. I remember there was this incident which came up at Battlefields where a lot of people lost their lives. We need to preserve the environment. As said by the mover, we need to preserve the environment for ourselves, future generations and everyone else that comes in our particular country.
The second thing that degrades our environment is burning of grass. If you use the road that I use when going to Bulawayo, you will find that there are a lot of fires that happen in that area. I can say between Selous and Bulawayo, you get a lot of fires happening in those areas. These fires are started either by people that smoke or by people that are looking for mice. Sometimes when you are looking for those tasty small animals we find ourselves burning the grass and digging holes, which is not good to the environment.
When you burn grass, you do not have a measurement to say this grass that I have burnt is only going to get there because you are not in control of the fire. The fire can burn a lot of acres and those acres are used for grazing. That is one issue that we need to look at as a Government and find laws that we can put in place so that we deal with that scourge.
The other thing that happens is tree cutting. My uncle whenever I saw him carrying his axe, I knew he was going to cut a tree. Sometimes he cuts a tree just for the fun of it. I believe that was a way of exercising but it is not environmental friendly.
The issues that I have talked about affect our climate. For example, when we talk about climate change, these things that I have talked about are the ones that cause climate change. Some Hon. Members might ask me and say what do you mean by this causes climate change. Climate change is caused by burning things that go into the sky and penetrate through the ozone layer and that then causes lack of rainfall. You get lack of rainfall if you cut trees. You get lack of rainfall if you burn grass. That is very important for us to understand. You will also see that because of what I am talking about, you get floods happening all over the place. You also get hurricanes happening all over the place. The issue of hurricanes and cyclones – you know the one that struck us in Chipinge, Cyclone Idai. There is a hurricane, tornado and a cyclone. All those things are caused by the issue of degradation of the environment like cutting trees, burning grass and also this business of digging where ever we want. That is a very important issue that we must look at seriously because besides affecting the grass, it also affects human life.
That is very important Madam President.
We would like to see EMA being empowered. EMA can be empowered by law where we put legislative frameworks that allow them to deal with the culprits as quickly as possible. We can also empower our police. The police as you know are the ones that arrest these culprits. Certainly, our traditional leaders are very important in dealing with these issues because they are the ones that stay with the communities. They need also to educate the communities not to burn the grass and also not to dig around and cut tress. That is very important.
It therefore means to say that the issue of empowerment is very important to all the stakeholders that I have talked about. It is also important that empowerment comes from this House, Lower House and a lot of cooperation from the Executive. The Executive also must be aware of what is happening. It is not good to look at these things and we just ignore them. I have seen fires that have been started along the
Bulawayo Road, destroying vast land there and certainly, it does not
only destroy vast land but it destroys even the small animals that are on the land. It destroys ants and whatever is there. When it has destroyed those small things that are there, remember if you look at these things scientifically, all the small insects, animals and small things that you get on the ground, they are there for a particular purpose; the ants are there for a particular purpose.
When they get burnt then the environment is also affected. So it is very important that as Senate, we must stand up and talk about these things; not only talk about these things, we must legislate because our role is to legislate on issues that affect society and the people that we lead. It is not good to hear people complaining about these things and we come here and do nothing. We have been given the opportunity to deal with the things that arise. While this issue is a challenge to this Senate, to us, traditional leaders and the Executive, we must come and deal with this matter. This is a very important motion and we need to deal with it. Madam President, with those few words that I have just said in this Senate, let me thank you for allowing me to stand up and express myself.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to contribute to this motion raised by Hon. Sen. Chifamba. It is a very important motion for the preservation of our environment. Let me start with the artisanal miners or small miners. If you see where they dig, of course they contribute to the economy by bringing in money to Government but they destroy the environment because they leave holes uncovered. After digging they look for where there is water to wash gold ore. They say there is a relationship between their digging and water. They wash their gold ore in rivers until some rivers get silted and no longer carry or store water. I suggest that the Government enacts very strong laws that prohibit washing of gold ore in those rivers because human beings, domestic animals and other animals no longer have access to water.
Madam President, let me give you an example of what happens in Mashonaland West at Cricket Mine. Children dug holes in abundance, it rained and water covered all those holes, it was a very sad thing. Our children were stuck and submerged in those holes from Tuesday up to Friday. We went to see and looked for experts to suck out that water. They dig meandering holes such that when we wanted to rescue them the experts could not use pipes that were supposed to extract water because of that. We had to engage experts in this operation so that they do it professionally.
After expert help, we sucked out that water and after 3 to 4 days we then saw some who had survived. We asked how they survived and they said they saw a very big rock where they stood. They then came out with gold which they refused to surrender even to their relatives. They got into the ambulances with their gold. So, it shows that when they dig they do it with passion because it is their way of surviving. What is important is that they should do it in a better way. Let me now look at the subject of veld fires. Veld fires are discussed and debated all the time even in previous Parliaments, that has been debated but nothing tangible was resolved to deter veld fires.
Some people try to stop helplessly veld fires raging on in farms. I put reels at my farm and anyone who sees veld fires and do not act should not be paid. EMA came along and said they could be ticketed or fined for not participating in those veld fires. I think proper laws must be enacted to protect farms from veld fires including enacting fireguards. If Chiefs are given those powers to deal with those issues like veld fires, I know that they can act very effectively. If they enforce their rules, I believe that veld fires will be reduced especially on farms. If farmers are told that they will pay huge fines if veld fires range in their vicinities, I think that will deter them from leaving veld fires unattended. I believe everyone will participate in stopping veld fires. I think we should enact laws that prohibit veld fires.
Wild animals also perish in veld fires because they will be hibernating in the forests and if they see veld fires they run away. They sometimes run crossing roads and people who drive, as soon as they see wild animals are attempted to hit them for relish sake. So, I think veld fires should be stopped because they also disturb the livelihood of wild animals.
These days because of shortage of electricity, we also see people carrying firewood. Laws must be enacted to deter people from carrying wet firewood because at least they should use dry or dead wood. It is better as compared to burning or cutting fresh trees to use as firewood.
There are A1 and A2 farms which have been allocated but we see people building on river banks. There are no clear laws that stop people from building or constructing homesteads along those river banks. There should be a law that should stop people from building homesteads anywhere. There should be clear demarcations to safeguard grazing areas as well as wetlands and rivers.
In conclusion, I would like to say there are wild fruits in the forest that we consume. These are mazhanje, hacha, hute and matohwe. We see people felling the whole tree instead of just fetching the fruit only. They fell the whole branch in order to get these fruits. Laws must be set so that such people can be taken even to the Chief’s court so that they are fined or charged for felling those trees. We also see people dragging tyres or sledges. These also cause soil erosion when the rain comes.
With these few words, I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RAMBANEPASI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st August, 2019.
MOTION
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EMPOWERED ENTITY TO ADDRESS
CHALLENGES AFFECTING PENSIONERS AND POLICY
HOLDERS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for a legislative framework on pensions and insurance benefits.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President for allowing me this opportunity to debate an honorous motion from Hon. Sen. Timveos. I think the wisdom that she brings in is that we are looking at this everyday and there is legislation already talking about insurances and pensions but it is not enough. We have not looked at it enough to ensure that the people who insure themselves and insure their health get benefits.
There are several kinds of insurances. Some of them are initiated by central Government or private people. We have got funeral, medical and vehicle insurances but the most critical one that we want to emphasise on is the one on pensions. I think most of us here are waiting for the grave. We will be going to the grave very soon but we do not want to die having nothing, hence we are emphasising on the pension.
What is happening to the people’s pensions? Honestly central Government and us as Members of Parliament have to come together to ensure that pensioners do not struggle to follow up their pensions, let alone them paying enough. When you pay for your pension, you are looking after yourself before you die. This is some form of reserve fund that is also used by central Government in terms of borrowing to do certain projects. Pensions are the biggest reserves of savings for a nation. In any successful economy, insurances are done in such a manner that they protect the insured and Government ensures that it uses those funds wisely for the purposes of capitalisation. Capitalisation means when you save money for the future, you do not just keep it in the bank. You want to put it in a certain pocket so that people make profits by continuously using it.
We have NSSA – look at what is happening to it. There is an outcry but this is a Government department. We have PSMAS. We can talk of other pensions – what is PSMAS doing today? Go to that hospital and you will not get a single tablet there. We are here as contributors to PSMAS but we are doing nothing about it. The other year, someone was earning $500 000 and we are still watching.
I will remain controversial in terms of fighting such deep corruption and ensuring that we do what we would want others to do unto ourselves. We always do wrong things to others and maybe say ndezvake but in reality, we must do things as the Bible says; ‘do to others what you would want them to do to yourself. This Parliament has a duty to ensure that at least PSMAS works. Civil servants are badly paid and they use PSMAS. There is no medication at PSMAS; there is nothing that you get easy at PSMAS. You go and queue at PSMAS and
get nothing ....
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen.
Mudzuri, PSMAS is not a pension.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: It is pension and read this, it is talking about PSMAS and insurances. It is an insurance company. I am not talking about things that I did not research. Doctors do not get paid from PSMAS. I am using it as an example. It is not the only one but I am saying we are benefactors of PSMAS but we are doing nothing about it. We need to talk to PSMAS and have a proper understanding that
PSMAS delivers in particular to public servants.
We need to talk to NSSA because it is directly under our purview to ensure that it delivers. We do not mind Government borrowing and using money to deliver services that work for the common men because that is the purpose of pensions. When you go to NSSA today, they want you to wait to get a picture. It takes you ages – you are already old and you just want to get your pension. There should be processes that give you your pension without straining and there is always re-registration of someone whether you are alive or dead. I do not know whether our registrars are not able to register dead people and make sure that they go to PSMAS as well. There is a whole process that is done when someone is dead and to end up having all the records done at NSSA and all the other pension officers is not proper. It is not only this one – you go to Local Authority Pension Fund, people strain to get their pensions and people get crooked, they spend the money and no one follows them and people have become billionaires or millionaires. It is unfortunate that the dollar has gone but I do not know what sort of billionaires they are.
The funny thing Mr. President is that there is no protection for old people. When I was 59, some few years ago, I went to CIMAS when I noticed that PSMAS was not as good. I was already an MP. I used to have CIMAS insurance and said can I have insurance and it was four days after my birthday, then they said how old are you? I showed them my ID and they said you are above 59 and you cannot get another insurance policy. So, you are condemned at 59 in this country to get insurance. Maybe it could be more expensive but you are condemned. So old people again, while they look at small pensions, they do not get taken care of by other private insurances. You strain when you are above 59. I do not know what should be done when you are 59 and you had forgotten to get insurance but maybe it should be advertised that should you want insurance, you must do it before you are 59. All the years I have insured with CIMAS, I went to the State, I missed some years and when I came back I became a bit relaxed at Parliament. When I noticed that CIMAS was not paying, I went there. So, I lost my time and everything and I cannot get a new insurance. How do we help people who are above 59? I see that South Africa advertises for some people who are above 60 and they can still get insurance but we do not do that.
There are people who insure their children for fees. Honestly, you ensure for fees and what you are trying to do is that you might be saying I might lose my job and I want to ensure my child for fees and there is a written fee. It would be a fee amount to say US$3 000 and they tell you that it is US$3 000 and the day it comes, it is gone and they forget. They now just multiply it, increase it if you want it the next term. So far, this phase of change of currency has killed all our insurances. I do not know who still has one which is valid. When I was insuring my car, they said you can choose to use a dollar or use RTGS. So, I chose the dollar but a few weeks ago, it is no longer a designated currency and where do I go. Who gave them permission to choose these two and it means that Government has allowed them to do that? How do we control such fluidity in terms of manning human beings who are trying to save in different forms? This is a way of saving to say in my hard times, let me get something. They now do not want to pay you but to tell you that it is now different, and your dollar is now 1 RTGS but you have paid for a full term. You have paid up to December in US dollar but now it is RTGS – what are we doing about these manipulations of fees?
There is this death benefit Mr. President. Can you talk when you are dead? I do not know who will talk when they are dead. You go to a funeral parlour and you might be told that that person’s name does not exist. I have had that experience with my mother’ insurance where they could not find my mother’s insurance which I had paid ten years earlier because they used to say for older people, it was Doves. Doves had a casket, and transport policy and so on. I did that for my parents and they said you will pay for five years and after five years, they are finished. They say you can re-activate it and you pay more. It is no longer a polished casket and you are now asked to pay another one and they say keep it alive and keep paying. Then I said I cannot and that policy casket should be enough, with transport, but when my mother died, there was nothing. It took them three weeks to find my mother’s name. They said it was found in Chiredzi because I insisted as a person.
This is what happens to dead people.
All of you, if you have insurances, you are lucky that you might be buried by Government but, if you are not going to be buried by
Government, these insurances will treat you badly when you are dead. So, we need legislation and follow ups on these people who ill treat us when we have paid money and they have used it and they have put up buildings and everything and they have the money – assets. Everyone keeps their money in assets and all these companies have kept their money in assets. I know the other debaters have already said it that most of the buildings here other than this small part which belongs to Government, belong to insurance companies. So, what are we doing about it to ensure that people get the benefit and I want to persuade us that it is not enough just to legislate? It is also enough for us to have the conscience.
It is also important that we have the ethics of governance. I do not think that we have the ethics of governance because ethics tells you to go back to reasonable morality of delivering the justice that everybody we represent deserves. We represent that justice. I might divert Mr. President that there is no administrative justice in this country. The other day I was in the Standard Chartered Bank and they just told me after about 25 years of banking with them and they say we cannot save you and we cannot allow you to bank with us. I asked them for a reason and they said we cannot tell you. I said but we have been married for 25 years and you are telling me that you cannot, where is the reason and they said we cannot. I said but this is my country and if I have done anything wrong, it must be exposed. Should I go to court with it? According to our Constitution, you cannot just illtreat a person you have been with for so many years.
We are actually legislating for other things and we are not legislating for these private companies that might steal from us. They have benefited from me all these years, I have benefitted from them but they would just tell me that you go because you are a politically exposed person. If I am politically exposed, where do I go and live? This is
what is done by insurances and different companies and it is worse. For guys who are in Government, you are lucky and for us in the opposition, we are treated like rubbish everywhere we go. No one wants to give us an opportunity and this is our country. We must help each other to ensure that we belong to one country. We must be one country and we must make sure that there is reasonable justice for all. I thank you Mr.
President.
+HON. SEN. MKWEBU: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion on the pension issue. They talked about the challenges being faced by pensioners and I am also one of those pensioners. The pension funds assist the old aged who can no longer go to work. The analysts who have been managing the pensions fund managed to build tall buildings in the country using the pensions money of which those who are supposed to be benefiting from the money are facing challenges in accessing their pensions. The expert in this area managed to realise that due to the financial crisis that we face, at the end of the day, the money diminishes in the bank accounts.
So buildings were built so that people could get money for their whole lives. Mr. President, the economic crisis that we are facing affected everything. We can continue to debate and ignore the fact that the economic crisis has affected our monies as well.
Mr. Speaker, I do plead with the Government in this new dispensation to look into this issue and ensure that improvement is done so that people get money that they can use to educate their children.
People also wish to buy groceries with their pension money. Therefore, I do hope that the new dispensation will deal with these difficulties that we have been facing through empowering the Anti-Corruption Commission so that corruption is reduced in our nation. My point of view is that Government will manage to reduce corruption, eliminate it as well as improve our economy. I also hope that those people who are getting salaries that are not enough are attended to. In addition to that, Government is supposed to make a follow up of the projects that are in place. It should monitor and evaluate those projects so that there is transparency and accountability in what happens there. There is need for the projects to benefit the whole nation and not an individual per se so that the pensioners are able to get their monies in the proper way.
Mr. President, it is important that the Government looks after its own people. Most of the things have been said before. As I said before the difficulties faced by pensioners have been mentioned already. There are so many things that are happening in our country that affect pensioners. Therefore, Mr. President, I do hope that the Government will look into this issue and ensure that people access their pensions. With those few words, I thank you.
+HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice concerning pensions. As I came here on a particular day, I met an old man who gave me a lift and he alerted me that he had gone to Plumtree to get his pension but he did not access it. As I spoke to him I inquired how much value his money had in the past. He informed me that he used to contribute a lot of money which was worth about two cows every month. He told me that the money that he is getting at the moment is worth one loaf of bread. We spoke a lot. I asked him about the kind of person he was as he grew up. He told me that he was very responsible and he said that the ones who were irresponsible are living a better life than him. I should say that I think contributing pension is a waste of time because at the end of the day you will not benefit anything. You end up being like an irresponsible person. You realise that people who parted with their monies actually enjoy better.
As I am sitting here I am looking at my payslip and see the pension that I am contributing and I regret. I would rather use my money and enjoy it whilst I am still alive. Pension is meant for one to use when they retire. However, that is not the case. I believe that is why we have old people between the ages of 70 and 75 who are still working. It is because they know that it is better to be at work than to retire as they will earn about $400 as compared to $4 pension.
In addition I believe that people who worked suffer more as compared to those who were unemployed. In the past, women were not allowed to get employed so currently the people who are suffering are women because the men are no longer receiving their pensions. Others have died and left the situation as it is. The problem is that if the owner of the pension is the husband and if he dies before getting that pension, the wife faces a lot of challenges.
What saddens me is that in our family my grandfather was employed but he is suffering the most, but his brother who used to work in South Africa is receiving a better pension. This is a painful situation. I would rather use my money now whilst I am still living because we can continue to debate about this but it will not be taken up. We are being fooled. So now we are using rands that we get from South Africa, yet there are others who were employed here in Zimbabwe and others participated in the liberation war but they are getting peanuts. Some people borrow money to go and get their pensions and yet they do not get it from banks. At times it means that the money that they get they only use it for transport. I think the past employees when it comes to pensions are a laughing stock because they do not know what they worked for. These days things are expensive. Imagine if one is given $50 at the bank and he would have borrowed $25 to come to town.
Mr. President, the elderly are facing many challenges and we are their hope. As the Senate we should ensure that the issue of pensions is attended to. If we look into that issue we will realise that even the elderly Hon. Members will retire. If we sort out this issue, there will not even be early marriages in our rural areas because people will have enough. Even the grand children will understand that life has become better.
Mr. President we plead with you that you look into this issue. It does not matter how you got the pension but there is need for one to get money that is enough, that they can use in this economic crisis. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. PHUTI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st August 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need of the enforcement of the law on child marriages.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. A. DUBE: I want to thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my views concerning child marriages. This is a very sad issue because the young girls can make their choices and cannot consent to anything. I think in most cases they are taken advantage of by older men who even have their own wives, who are married. In most cases some of these children drop out of school because they cannot afford school fees. Some of them drop out of school in Grade 7 and because they have nothing to engage them they are taken advantage of by these men. At the end of the day the child opts to get married and they are forced into marriage.
Most of these girl-children get pregnant without even knowing what they are doing. It is important for us as the august House to realise that most of these girl-children are being taken advantage of. There is need to empower the traditional leaders to look into this issue and ensure that the young children are not taken advantage of. Some of them are in poverty and therefore they are given promises by these men. Some of the parents agree to all this because they know they will get food from the men. There is need to deal with these people because they destroy the future of these young children and the future of our nation.
If you go into different hospitals where there are waiting shelters you will realise that there are children with 14 or 15 years who are pregnant and they make most of those numbers. If you look into the issue you will realise that they have been impregnated by older men. The men will then approach the parents and make promises to them so that they are not arrested. When the child has been born they disappear.
These girl-children struggle to give birth because they will be too young. There is need to thoroughly assess this issue because the number of children who are getting pregnant at an early age and getting into marriage at an early age is increasing.
There is need to create awareness and educate these young children if there are any programmes that are assist those who come from poor backgrounds. There is need to ensure that these children are assisted because in most cases when they drop out of school that is when they are taken advantage of by older men who have their own homes. There is need to assist them so that they get proper education. In most cases you find orphaned children living on their own.
Mr. President, where we come from we face challenges of child headed families and so the old men then make promises to take care of these children and by that begin to abuse them. They only assist because they want to benefit from the girl-child and make them their own wife. In most cases these children who head families get pregnant at an early age because they are taken advantage of. However, in the past, orphans used to belong to the whole and all parents in the community would assist. However, nowadays the men are assisting and sleep over there. When we speak of children who get into early marriages and get pregnant at an early stage, we should state that we might not know it exists unless we go into the communities. These children are taken advantage of by older men who destroy their future. When they are impregnated by these men, the men run away from them and their future is destroyed. They end up dropping out of school because they are afraid others will laugh at them. The men who promise to help these girls, take advantage of them and abuse them should be arrested.
This motion that was brought by Hon. Sen. Tongogara in this
Senate is a serious motion. All of us should contribute to it because we come from communities where such things happen. We can debate about it but we need to plead with the Government to find ways of handling this. Where I come from in Tshlolotshlo, there is a nine year old girl who used to stay with the grandmother, who agreed with the man next door to abuse the child and the grandmother used to be paid for that. As I speak now, this child is in the custody of police so that they take her to Social Welfare. There is another one who is 5 years old and I heard this man has started abusing her. We strongly plead with the Government to see what to do with these children abused by older men.
We used to think that it was for ritual purposes, however we noticed that it had nothing to do with rituals. It is just about abuse it has nothing to do with rituals. There is need to create awareness in our communities because many girls aged 13 and 14 years old are abused by older men.
When they go to give birth they are mandated to go for blood tests and it is on record that most of them are infected, this is pure satanism. We plead with the Government to look into ways of assisting these children. There is need for these girls to be educated. In schools, they must receive education on these men that abuse them.
There is need to protect and assist the girl child so that our child and grand children’s future is bright. In the past, it was the grandparents who took care of their grandchildren without abusing them. Some of them do not want to report these cases because they will be receiving groceries from people who are busing the children. I think in this case they will be accomplices and need to be arrested as well. There is need to remember that children have their own future. I thank you Hon.
President for giving me this opportunity.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st August, 2019.
MOTION
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN TOWNS
AND GROWTH POINTS
Fourth order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the perennial shortage of clean and potable water in most towns and growth points.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to debate on water shortages in Zimbabwe. It is a sad story considering that Zimbabwe has many rivers and dams, small and large but we are failing to maintain these dams and rivers. When Parliament resumed after elections; all the years, there are ministries whose mandate is to look at the water issues but you never hear them saying anything. There are ministries that are allocated this task to deal with water issues but we do not hear them raising motions or issues in Parliament or request for more money. Instead, that issue is only raised by Parliament. We do not hear them complaining about shortage of resources or funding on water but water shortage is very rampant in this country. Almost everyone including the Minister uses private boreholes because there is no running water in taps. Many people are now using bush pumps or boreholes but in the past, these were used in the rural areas. These days it is now common in towns and cities. Harare is now full of those boreholes yet these are supposed to be found in rural areas like Mt. Darwin or Chipinge where there are no taps.
Depletion of forests caused by veld fires, land degradation and soil erosion also contribute to the shortage of water because they contribute to siltation in rivers and dams. I remember sometime when I was still a councillor, I went to Victoria Falls and asked where they draw their water from. It was a few kilometers away from the Zambezi River. It was very good water. We met some Chinese at the Zambezi River who asked us why we were letting plenty of water flow all the way to the Indian Ocean. They said that we were supposed to dig a canal that would divert a little of that water into Zimbabwe so that we access this good water.
If we had invested in such a project of building a canal from the Zambezi River into mainland Zimbabwe, we would have made progress by now. Now we are suffering, people are drinking dirty water mixed with sewerage from Mufakose. Even the fish that we find in Lake
Chivero no longer taste good. The fish easily rot because of pollution. What are we saying as Government because water from Lake Chivero must no longer be used for consumption? If you were to open a tap running with water from Lake Chivero, you would not consume it because it is not good. Just imagine our children playing with that water. After a short space of time that water goes bad and this is happening on a daily basis.
I call upon the Ministers to come up with proposals so that we draw water from the Zambezi River that we can use because there is plenty and good water from the Zambezi River. There is need for a plan to draw water from there.
We have been debating a lot of issues in this House but I am not sure where the issues that we discuss go to. Are they ever regarded? Are they ever taken seriously? We have debated a lot of issues including councils – even before I became Senator; I used to wonder what Senators debate. They debate endlessly but what is going wrong? Why are all these issues that are debated not taken seriously and solutions brought forward? Mr. President Sir, can we get an explanation as to why the motions that are debated here do not go anywhere. They are just written in the Hansard and we do not get the solutions after the debates. If these issues are further considered and taken up as serious matters, Mr. President, please assist us to make a follow up.
In our constituencies, people ask us what we debate and what we are doing because we do not have roads or clean water for drinking and we do not have proper answers. Mr. President, I kindly request you to sensitize me on what happens to issues that we debate here. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: Thank you Mr. President. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen.
Wunganayi on clean water.
If I look at Millennium Goal No. 6, it talks about clean water. All life is drawn from water – be it flora and fauna or wild animals. It is very essential to life, be it wild animals - if they use dirty water, they do not live very well. It is not good for human beings to consume dirty water. We go for some time without water from taps and when that water comes, it will be dirty and will not be good for consumption. Even when you put the water in a bucket, you can see the dirt. We all need clean water.
I do hereby request that we get access to good and clean water. It is good for our health. In some rural areas like Bikita, people go a long way following rivers and streams digging wells to access water and this is not clean water. About ten kilometers away from Zengeya School, teachers travel a long way with scotch carts to do their laundry and to access clean water. They spend a lot of time looking for clean water. I suggest that we have boreholes sunk so that we also get better water. That would be a good thing. I kindly ask that all areas get access to better and clean water because water is essential to life, crops and for human consumption. If also people can get access to clean water for irrigation, that will be good so that they do farming through irrigation and get food security that way. Sometimes we hear a lot of priority being put on boreholes being sunk in urban areas but rural areas also need those boreholes and better water for consumption. I thank you Mr.
President Sir.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I thank you. We all
come from rural areas and I sometimes suggested that such a motion is raised on clean water pertaining to rural areas. I call upon you Hon. Senators to come up with a motion that deals specifically with rural areas seeking to access clean water.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to debate on water. Indeed, water is very important to human life because, where there is no water, there is no life. If you want to know how important water is, carry your own water for drinking, and that is when you realise how water is important. Even in this august House, we drink water whilst we debate.
So, what is the problem that stops us from accessing better water? The problem with urban water is that, water in the urban areas is driven by machinery and it is also purified using chemicals. It also needs experts in the purification process. So, I think that in this country, we should look at the legislation pertaining to water and most of the times people who need water provision have no knowledge on how work should be done because sometimes, it seems that people who lead in the water provision do not have a plan on how people will get water especially in future. They do not have future plans in terms of water provision. We are growing as a nation but there are no clear plans to cater for water needs of expanded populations.
Even engineers that lead in local authorities, if they are led by other people who might not have knowledge on laws, or proper knowledge on what to do; I would like to give you an example of what happened recently. I heard that there was a Mayor who was supposed to be fired at one of the towns. That capacity, the most important thing is that the laws must be used, must be followed and capacity building is very important so that people who work around water provision should have the expertise and proper knowledge as well as legislation. So, it also starts with legislation. Laws must be scruitnised on how candidates to be elected should be in terms of qualification. There must be a provision on minimum requirements to people who are chosen or elected for public office because we may debate this issue and yet not be able to come up with a solution.
So sometimes we realise that there are some Bills that come up. There must also be a Bill that considers minimum qualifications in certain fields because we expect that people who contribute should also have scientific or better knowledge on certain things. This country needs knowledge in order to be run. What I am saying is, as a Chief, if I should be chosen to lead a board, or to be the Chairman of the ZINWA Board, I should not be selected simply because I am a chief, no. People are going there simply to fill posts yet they will not be effective. Knowledge should be considered and some of the councils or local authorities that we know are run by cattle herders and some do not even know the difference between Mbare and Highlands. The same with legislators, some of them have little knowledge. How are our future children going to deal with these issues that come as a deficiency of the people that are elected into public office?
Of course, our country is said to have 94% literacy rate but of what use is that literacy rate when there are no solutions proffered by such people to the problems that we face in our country? So, I urge all the politicians or leaders to consider that the most important thing is knowledge and not just making up the numbers. We should be here to contribute knowledgeable debates and knowledge is lacking in terms of water solution. I spent 20 years dealing with water issues, and five years it was training and in the rest of the years, I gained a lot of experience. Knowledge is very important but the problem is that people who may be leading that work are very ignorant about water provision. So, I say people who are supposed to lead such work in terms of water provision should be knowledgeable and qualifications must be considered for the selection of those people. I thank you very much Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you very much Mr.
President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this debate on the provision of clean water. Mr. President Sir, clean water is important to human life as well as any other life. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Wunganayi for raising this motion. I happen to be debating soon after the debate by the Chief and I think that my thinking is similar to what the Chief has just said. I realise that in the past, water used to circulate very well. The water reticulation system was functioning well and good but after that, we had problems with water because there was no more water. We also encountered a very big problem of cholera. I realise that some of the homesteads, if not all, had their own wells. Which means that those wells were not deep enough hence the quality of water that people were now accessing was not good.
The issue that the Hon. Sen. Chief just raised that is, emphasising on the need for knowledgeable people to work in those areas is very important. When I worked in the local authorities in the councils, we used to have plans and budgets for provision of water and those plans were considering the future.
Mr. President Sir, water should be provided for and it is important in both urban areas as well as growth points. Sometimes the problem maybe because of old pipes and those pipes must be replaced. As towns and cities expand, the water reticulation system should also be upgraded so that water is continuously accessed by people. There used to be water pumps to supply different residential locations but, what is happening now is that, residential areas are being expanded yet there is no expansion to water reticulation, yet also those residential areas may also affect the system of water reticulation. I suggest that this water problem be considered even in terms of budgeting and planning. Right now, we have a problem of electricity supply. We should also try to consider the issue of using solar. In the past, we also used to see windmills providing water. Windmills do not need electricity. They used to pump water into the tanks. If the windmill continues rotating, even if the tank is full, it will continue pumping, that was technology. Such ideas are very good. They provide solution to water reticulation especially when it is underground water.
The other problem is the shortage of chemicals for water purification. Local authorities need funding to access chemicals for water purification. The problem is people are not doing their work very well. Therefore, we need to have experts who should look into water reticulation provision issues so that they solve this problem.
I also suggest that we have windmills that pump water from the ground into tanks; that can provide water to people where they stay. We should have solutions to water problems so that people access clean water. It is not about having water access on every homestead, no, the most important thing is water must be clean. I do not know how health experts can scrutinise water. It is important that clean water be provided, be it from underground or dams. Let us blame ourselves because we lead local authorities. Let us admit that we have failed. Relevant legislations must be put in place. Even the Minister who leads that, we need to hear from him, what is affecting water provision. We need to understand from him because there are a lot of water sources, do they need developments. There is need to build water reticulation systems and expand provision of water reticulation system. Thank you.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st August, 2019.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER AND
DEVELOPMENT ON CANCER TREATMENT AND CONTROL IN
ZIMBABWE
Fifth Order read: Adjourn debate on motion on the Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on Cancer Treatment and Control in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. S. K. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Hon. Senator who brought this report. I also want to thank colleagues who participated in the debate of the same. Mr. President, I will be very brief because a lot have been said on this issue. I want to start by saying that this disease called cancer has no respect for any age, gender or race.
Mr. President, cancer is depleting our population at an alarming rate. It can take any form, it does not matter which part of the body we can refer to. There is no part of the body that is safe from this disease.
Unlike other diseases, for instance HIVAIDS, cancer is a silent killer. In most cases, those affected come to know that they are afflicted by this disease when it is at a very advanced stage rendering it very, very difficult to access complete cure.
It is a disease, from what we know, from what we have read and from what we have experienced; whose treatment is very expensive. It is very expensive that the majority of our population cannot afford to access its cure. Mr. President, we have often heard of a number of our compatriots, colleagues, citizens across the country talking about not feeling well but not knowing that they are going through a very tormenting disease because it is silent and that is cancer.
A lot of poverty that is afflicting our people, particularly in rural areas today can be attributed to this disease. There is a lack of modern facilities in our hospitals to treat this disease, lack of expertise in terms of doctors who have specialised in this particular area, caused to a larger extent in rural areas by desperation to find a cure.
When I finished my secondary school at Fletcher High School, I was fortunate to work at Mpilo Hospital in 1967 for a few months as a research assistant in the Cancer Research Unit. Of course, I left the country not long after in 1967 for what you all know. What I discovered during that short period of research was that we can put ourselves into three categories when it comes to some various illnesses, including cancer. Some will immediately or after some time feeling that their system is not performing well, in other words, they are sick, they will immediately visit what in modern times you can call medical doctors.
There are many here I am sure. One of them is next to me here (Hon. Sen. Dr Sekeramayi) to find out what could be worrying them with their system. They will be diagnosed of course, and perhaps necessary treatment be given.
Others will immediately visit a traditional healer and forget about the hospital. Rumour would have gone around that at a certain village there is an expert who is a traditional healer who can cure any type of disease, including cancer. The person will get there and will be assured by the healer after some diagnosis of his own that you have no problem.
‘Your neighbour or your other acquaintance, I can tell is involved in this situation you are in. It is not a problem I can handle it very urgently, but of course you know these days there is nothing for free, I just need five or three cattle’. In that process you will run around to look for what the traditional healer needs. The disease is spreading. I am talking of cancer.
Whilst you leave that place with whatever medication you have been given, go and try whatever treatment you will have been given and see no improvement after some weeks and go back. This is the research we did. You go back to the traditional healer and say no I am not feeling much improvement. One of them in terms of our research was a question to say when you left here did you look behind. The patient of course in desperation said yes I did and the healer says oh that is where the problem is. Never, never look behind when you leave the gate. Here is another medication. Meanwhile the disease is multiplying in the system. That is the second category I am referring to the first one where he went straight to the so called modern medical doctors.
The third one we found Mr President was that whilst you will go to the hospital the relatives will also be busy finding out from other areas whether something also could not be attributed to some other developments. Again, they will also be paying quite a bit there. I am saying this because that type of research led us to believe that sometimes by the time we go to the medical facility we have delayed so much that the doctors may find it difficult to give you an appropriate cure, irrespective of how expensive it is.
We hear these days that our people have left for this country, they have left for that country and this has been going on for years in terms of this cancer disease...
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT (HON. SEN. CHIEF
CHARUMBIRA): Hon. Senator you are left with five minutes.
HON. SEN. S. K. MOYO: I thought with my height you can
increase but I will definitely take less than that. I am saying this Mr. President because not many of us here can afford to get treatment beyond our borders, let alone get facilities within which can attend to our challenges in terms of this disease. What I want to bring home and appeal to Government is that whilst Government is doing its best to provide facilities, I know at Mpilo and at Parirenyatwa, there is a disturbing development. The late umdhala wethu, the Late Vice President Joshua Nkomo, was disturbed about this development, on this disease called cancer. He built a hospital in Bulawayo called Ekusileni. The idea was to make it a specialist hospital so that our people do not go outside the country for treatment, particularly when it comes to issues like cancer. He passed on saying, ‘I am going but I have not even had access to my hospital’.
Up to today Mr. President, the hospital is a white elephant - for what reason, some of us cannot understand. It will be vital for this
Senate to really take it upon itself to say we want that hospital opened. We want it equipped and we want it to have experts as the founder wished, because I do not believe he will rest in his grave when we are treating such good effort as what we are witnessing today. The hospital is falling apart and we are dying. If that cannot be corrected and cannot be addressed quickly Mr. President, this motion will always be on the Order Paper for very many years to come, until we are no more - all of us – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – I thank you Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): The delivery in the end was very moving and it is not good to continue adding on more into our minds after such a delivery. We need to go and sleep over and digest such good delivery and words. So for now let us adjourn the Senate and adjourn such a good debate.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 31st July,
On the motion of THE MINISTER FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI), the Senate
adjourned at Twenty Four Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 30th July, 2019
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: I move that Order of the Day, No. 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. PHUTHI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN EMPOWERED ENTITY TO ADDRESS
CHALLENGES AFFECTING PENSIONERS AND POLICY
HOLDERS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need for a legislative framework on pensions and insurance benefits.
Question again proposed.
**HON. SEN. SINAMPANDE: Thank you Madam President
for giving me this opportunity. I would like to debate briefly on pensions, especially on NSSA. I hereby request that NSSA should deposit the money that they deduct from people into their bank accounts so that they can use cards to swipe especially in shops instead of them going to the banks where they have to stand in long queues. So, this is my request that pensioners who receive money from NSSA should get their money through their bank accounts. I also understand that the leaders especially Ministers request money from NSSA because NSSA has a lot of money which is not being used properly. So the Ministers request that money to use it for their personal benefit. I hereby request that should be stopped. It must not be done because the rightful beneficiaries should earn better money that can sustain their families.
I also would like to speak about Old Mutual. Old Mutual has a lot of big buildings that they rent out and they get a lot of money out of that, but the people who contributed that money are not getting anything – they are getting very little money. Old Mutual is constructing buildings that they rent out whilst those who contributed so that they can be taken care of when they retire are not benefiting. I hereby request that pension earnings be increased and should not remain at Z$100 because Z$100 cannot buy anything these days - I am talking about Z$100 and not US$100. I request that these earnings be increased so that pensioners are able to take care of their families. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. SHOKO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st July 2019.
MOTION
CULTURAL VALUES ON ENDING CHILD MARRIAGES
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the need of the enforcement of the law on child marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Madam President for
affording me the opportunity to debate on this motion which was put forward by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. I want to thank her very much for this very sensitive question which I think most of us would agree with. I am very perturbed that in the new Marriages Bill, the one that is causing so much consternation to the whole country, inside there they have put the Child Marriages Act inside the Bill to do with multiple partners. I fail to understand the purpose for that. Why could the Government not have a separate Bill as suggested here by the Hon. Senator which stands alone, just to do with marriages.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I do not think you can
debate what is in the Bill which has not yet been tabled.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I agree with you Madam President but
now that it is out there it is already on the public platform.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We wait for it to come
because maybe what is being said out there has nothing to do with what is not yet tabled. When it is tabled then we will be in a position to understand what is actually in the Bill.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I hope that what I have seen is not
correct but if it is correct then we shall still deal with it. I agree with you Madam President and I agree with the Hon. Senator. This is a matter which is very urgent. We, as a country are speaking with a double tongue on this one. Who are we calling a child and who is not a child. On the one hand we are saying people can only be married when they turn 18. On the other hand we are saying that children of 16 can have sexual relations. Surely, is a 16 year old not a child? I would have thought that a child is a child and a 16 year old is a child.
I would hope that Government will actually be explicit….
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon Member I do not
know how to explain to you. Actually you are debating the Bill.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Anyway I do not know which children
we are talking about. If we are talking about children that she is talking about, the Child Marriages Bill should not even exist because we should not have children being allowed to marry in this country. The children I am talking about are children under the age of 18. I am hoping that something is going to be done; and that is being done, and that we will never see in this House a situation where we are debating the marriages of children.
I think that what was driving the Senator is that children are being given to older men to be married by them and that she was discouraging that. I do not think that she was talking about people over 18. She was talking about people under the age of 18. This is exactly what I am trying to drive towards. Even if they were not being given over because they themselves cannot make that decision and neither can anyone make that decision on their behalf, therefore a Bill that comes to this
House should be very clear on who it is that we are calling a child. The Hon. Senator is very clear on what she is talking about here that in this country we should not countenance the idea of children being married off to anyone before they turn 18. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving
me this opportunity to debate this very important motion. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara and her seconder for moving such a very critical motion. From the last Parliament, we have been crying out as parliamentarians on the issue of the girl child. What we are crying out for is for the girl child to be given an opportunity to grow. I am sure you saw our netball national team, the “Gems” how well they did in the United Kingdom. Imagine if all our girl children were given that opportunity, I am sure that this country would be a better country because our girls will be highly education. Madam President, this issue about the law to protect a girl child is long overdue. Because of the economic difficulties, communities prefer to give away a girl child or marry them at a young age. The law should be clear on this issue and those that commit such crimes must be arrested. We should not choose to say who did what. Whoever is involved in marrying our girl child, a law has to be put in place.
Madam President, as I was researching on this motion, I found out that young girls who marry and get pregnant will develop complications and the percentage of losing those children are very high. Their chances of becoming mothers again are very low because of the complications. They are not physically and mentally ready on giving birth and to be in relationships. Most of our girl children who are married off early end up being single mothers and are not able to even look after those children. So as a country, we should not allow that to happen.
I was actually discussing with one of the Chiefs in my area who was saying that during the war if a man impregnated a girl, he would run away to join the liberation struggle because he feared that the community would turn against him. Now, in this day and age, it is like fashion whereby our men actually show off saying ‘I have got my yellow born’, this is what they call young girls, ndineka yellow born kangu. It is no longer an embarrassment for an old man to be seen with young girls; they actually think it is a plus for them.
Madam President, surely this issue should be discouraged and our laws, like Hon. Sen. Tongogara has said, have to protect our young girls and together with Government obviously we cannot do it alone. We also have to work with our Chiefs and our churches. Unfortunately, our churches now are a playground as well for that type of abuse on our girl children. The girls that are in the choir, from what I learnt during my research, they now belong to the pastor. The pastor actually sends out messages to say that make sure the girls that are in the choir are below 16 or they are 17 so that he can actually get one or two from there. Our churches are no longer that haven where we feel that our children are safe. You might say I am happy my child is going to church but most girls are likely to be abused there – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – Madam President, our laws have to be clear. We are the Senate; we have to make sure that our laws protect the girl child. Our girl children have a lot of issues that need to be dealt with, among them is sanitary wear and we must give them first priority.
The laws that we make must actually discourage whoever goes after young girls. I have heard some of us saying it is the way the girls dress these days, this is why our girls are being married off early. Look backwards - if you look at our history, taipfeka nhembe, and our girls were respected. If we go through our history our girls were respected. There was nothing wrong, no one was abused but why now? I think it is because of our laws and our laws have to protect the girl child.
So, I am going to support this motion fully and thank Hon. Sen.
Tongogara. I know a lot of things have been said by other Hon. Senators and they have been very much supportive of this motion. I just stood up also to support the motion and appeal to Government to make laws that protect the girl child so that the girl child can fulfill their dreams to succeed in our communities. There is no way we can protect our girl children if we allow the law to abuse them and if we allow laws to be passed that allow such anomalies to happen.
So, Madam President, I pray that as a country, we keep our ubuntu. The only thing that we have in this country or any other country is just that ubuntu that we have; the ubuntu we pray about every Sunday or Saturday when we go to church to say please God, look after the families and us so that we stay true to your word. We must never ever because we are a God fearing country, we cannot make laws that are against that. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President, can I be
allowed only today to debate in my mother language.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Only today? If you feel
like that, there is no need to ask for permission.
^^HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity to air my views, looking at the issue which was discussed by Hon. Sen. Tongogara especially when we are looking at child marriages. Looking at those who are getting married under the age of 17, these girls need to be protected. These girls we are talking about are still young and they know nothing about marriage. They are still looking upon their parents or guardians for any major decisions. When we are talking about these young girls, we still need to talk to people like Chiefs so that we help or assist each other in protecting the girl child.
When looking at these young girls, they need to learn more especially when we are looking at our culture, these girls need to know more about being a mother. If we look at the fact that we are talking about girls who are under 17 and how their lives are disturbed if they marry early - during labour when admitted and at the time of the labour, they get disturbed in terms of health. They get infected with so many diseases especially sexually transmitted diseases and HIV and they end up giving birth to premature babies. Some of these babies will not be health because these girls know nothing about caring for themselves. They are still young and need to be at school doing secondary education. When you look at these girls, they are shy when they meet others. She is ashamed of what is happening to her and she gets disturbed in everything she does.
When we talk about girl child marriages, we need to be educated, especially these old men. They need to know more about the dangers of sleeping with these young girls. It is not allowed under our Government. These old men do not marry these girls because they already have their wives at home.
Madam President, can you allow me to say that in our culture, some of people were using these girl child marriages to appease ngozi and it is not allowed under this Government. When you are talking to these old men, even if they still have it in their minds that if you go and sleep with a young girl whilst you are infected with HIV/AIDS, you will be healed – it is not allowed.
Some apostolic churches look at these young girls especially if they want to marry more wives. Why can they not just look at the old women and leave the young girls? If a child is seventeen years, she is not supposed to get married and if anyone is found doing this – both parents should be arrested because it is not allowed. Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to talk about this issue of young girls who are getting married to old men.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on this good motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara.
The issue of young girls being married before the rightful age affects us as their grandfathers. Long back, this did not exist. What has gone wrong with our children? Even if you see them, they like these early marriages. Let me go further and say long back even today, we say the woman is the owner of the home. If the woman is very strong, the home is also very strong. I am not ashamed to say as men, we are under the control of our wives. They have power over us. A girl child in our culture will have the mother’s eyes. Our boy child has the eyes of the father. Usually, the mother is always looking at how her girl child behaves. That is very helpful to keep the girl child safe.
Hon. women Senators, I am not scolding you but you no longer have authority over your girl children. You see a child at crèche level having a fancy hairstyle. You make sure that your girl child looks well. Why are we forcing our girl children to grow faster before the rightful time? It is painful and bad for old people to take young girls as wives. The mother and father have to assist each other in keeping an eye on their children.
Long back, we used to protect our children. Children were not allowed to go away from home without a proper explanation. Six o’clock was the cut off time for the children to be at home. Our traditional leaders had a lot of work in terms of protecting children. Even where girl children were abused, chiefs were very much concerned, protected and they took action against such kind of behaviour. If a boy was found to have abused a girl, the chiefs would warn the parents that if that continues, he will be dealt with effectively.
The people who encourage the girl child to be married are mothers, especially in certain churches. They even distribute their daughters to different people who are elders in the church. If a mother does not agree that her child be married at an early age, that will not happen even if the father had agreed and the mother disagrees – it will not happen. So, as a mother, you are supposed to protect the children, especially the girl child. These churches have a habit of giving away young girls, brainwash the young girl that she becomes happy that she had been seen in a dream by a man that can marry her.
Let us give authority to our chiefs, the kraal heads, the grand fathers and mothers should have authority which was taken away. Mothers would advise each other over the issue of advising their young girls. Fathers also did the same. If the mother is well advised, she would be able to talk to her girl child. The issue of raping underage girls – I know women when you meet in your organisations like you did yesterday, you talk strongly about this issue and you are the ones who are supposed to put laws which are very deterrent so that the girl child is not abused.
Long back, we would have mature girlfriends and we would swim together with older girls but nothing would happen between us. We would go together as boys and girls even when gathering wild fruits and nothing would happen. We used to be playing together as boys and girls and I tell you, I met a woman at the age of 25 years and that is
what used to happen. We would meet with our grandfathers and they would advise us about life. A few days ago, there was a house girl who talks a language which I do not understand and she could not even greet anyone but we taught her. My son had a wedding here in Harare and at the wedding, there was a person who came from our home area. He saw very beautiful women and he asked to say what is it that is needed for someone to have a wedding. He was advised that you should not play in a wrong way with a person of the opposite sex and for a very long time, we taught him and also took him to church and after our teaching, he promised that he wanted a wedding and that happened and we celebrated. That man that whom we taught is now married. This is the teaching which I want to see being done by mothers.
You fathers who marry young girls, you will see your system blocking because you took the wrong blood. I have seen a lot of older men crying after blocking their systems. Mr. President, you hear that someone has a blocked system, it is because of that. I had an old man who had a blocked system and they had to extract a lot of urine from his bladder. So, if you continue taking young girls, you will block your system and it will be very dangerous.
I also warn the mothers to take care of young girls and fathers, you have to look after your wives and no one is supposed to be married before the rightful time and the mothers you have that power to ensure that the girl child is not married early. Whatever you say, as our wives, us as husbands, we do not have the power but it is you who know the rightful age of your girls and you advise accordingly. We have to take that teaching to our homes and chiefs and kraal heads stamp the authority. Let us avoid child marriages.
I left something. Mothers, you are the ones who take care of your children at home but at school, the teachers are responsible. You need also to go to those schools and talk to teachers in terms of taking care of the girl child. If you teach your girl child very well, even boys will run away from that girl because they know that they do not have a chance with her. I am very critical about people who get married before their time and for those old men who take or who marry young girls, the Government will put a tough law and the end is not well. Thank you Mr. President.
+HON. SEN. P. NDHLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me this opportunity to also add my voice on the same issue. It is very difficult for a woman to raise a girl child properly. All those teachings that were being done to a girl child in the olden days are no longer the same as today. Today’s generation has access to different social media platforms, telephones, televisions and they can view pornography and staff like that. We really agree to the issue that as women, our role is to make sure that we bring up our girl children the proper way. If as a parent I am saying to my girl child do not go to church, the child is bound to tell me that no, I am not going to allow you to distract me or to refuse me the opportunity to go to church just because I have rights. That on its own is a challenge to us as parents.
I recently went to Lupane and visited the hospital. When I got there, I realised that all the girl children who were pregnant there were below the age of 19 years. The wards were so full with these girl children. Then I asked them that you girl children, where are your husbands and they told me that they do not have husbands. I asked them to say who then impregnated you and they gave differing answers to that question. I then asked them that with such challenges how then are you going to get maybe pads that you will require when you give birth. Some told me that this is exactly what they are asking for from me as a Member of Parliament that you assist us with pads for use as we give birth. I really feel pity for the challenges that these girl children are facing.
Mr. President, one girl child told me a story; she said she was impregnated by an artisanal miner; she is eight months pregnant, she will be giving birth very soon and she really needs help. So, the issue of rights is also an issue which is distracting us as parents to be able to make sure that these children abide by the laws. Let us all as parents play the role of being mothers and fathers so that we bring them up in the best way possible. Let us give them the necessary teachings that each and every home should give.
Mr. President, the other challenge is that these days it is difficult to come across proper men to take care of these girls because they also want to get married to those who work. They want women who bring money home. So, if these young girls are not employed, not doing anything to bring some income to their homes, then they will not be able to get any man who will be able to take care of them. No man respects these young girls. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr.
President. I wanted to debate for longer but most of the issues have been presented very well. We are good at speaking without action. This motion is saying in English, the issue of child marriage was a rare occurrence before Zimbabwe’s Independence; it has been supported by everyone. Hon. Sen. Chirongoma went deeper with this issue and that
is the truth.
Our extended families were very important in terms of protecting our children. It was said traditional leaders and church leaders have to help, this is the truth but why are we failing to control our kids as families. Do we still have these controlled families, what has destroyed extended families? As Parliament, we are supposed to find a day for a workshop to look at these issues. We want a workshop where we can investigate and debate because here the time is limited but in a workshop we can still share ideas. We have started a very good debate.
We need a workshop where we can go deeper in discussing these issues. What has killed the extended families, why do we not still have the extended families? We should look at that deeply, extended families help to protect our children. We want extended families to be back.
We saw the Pope talking about the issue families, including extended families. He spoke very well. He said that families act as a sanctuary, it is like a hospital that is the first school. Education starts in a family before you go to school. That is what we are supposed to protect but that has been destroyed. Mr. President, we need to fix the issue of extended families and to look at why the extended families have been destroyed.
We are forgetting also that Parliament is the one which is destroying the extended families. Some of the laws which have been legislated by Parliament are the ones which are destroying families which we passed as Parliament. We forget that we are going to have another workshop about values. There are certain things which we do which are of European origin and we have to avoid that.
It was said that Chiefs are supposed to enforce the laws against perpetrators. They forget when they are talking about traditional leaders that still that we belong to you, we are your servants. Of course we are supposed to fix that which is affecting you but our problem is that there are two states in our mind when we are talking. We have a country of traditional leaders and kraal heads, that is the first thing. On the other side we forget that there are things which we did and are still doing which have removed the authority of chiefs. We have different views of chieftainship. In the afternoon we believe in certain values of chiefs and during the night we have another view of traditional chiefs.
The person who destroyed the chieftainship is the white man who came to this country. All the work that you give us as chiefs came from God.
A lot of people forgot that there was a time when the chiefs powers were removed. In 1896 when native regulations were passed in this country, these are the laws which removed the authority of chiefs and it was done by the white people. Those things are well documented and they were written by white people in order to drive the people away from chiefs. It is written that we should not turn the natives away from looking to the chief as a source of authority. We should turn them to look to the District Native Commissioner as a source of authority. These laws had removed the powers of the chiefs. We need a workshop on that. Let us meet for two days and look at this issue to see what went wrong.
After independence we did not get time to look at these issues which destroyed our chieftainship. We became so busy with other things and we forgot about restoring the authority of chiefs. We did not investigate on how chiefs could get their powers. We need to go back and look at this issue. We need to introspect on this issue. We are still following the laws left by the white man and we are still following those laws. Professor Manfred Frisk from Harvard wrote a book
“Struggling with a Demon”. He talks about all these issues. For example, why are things going so wrong, why are we having the girl child being impregnated? We are not saying some laws have been destroyed which protect these girls, we need to remove this demon to fix our chieftainship. Our chieftainship is meant to fix our country and it is able to fix the country, but it has been undermined.
In our culture there is no one who is allowed to marry a minor. In workshops we mislead each other. There is no culture which allows a girl to be married before 18. We have elders like Hon. Sen. Hungwe here, they know that long back there was nothing like that. A girl-child was not allowed to be married. Whether you go to Shangani, Karanga, Zezuru, Nambya and Ndebele, there is nothing like that. If there is someone who says that culture is there, may we meet after this sitting and we will drive where this is practiced. There are a lot of crooks amongst us who masquerade as well meaning people under the guise of culture. We have a lot of people who do things hiding behind culture as black people and they say it is our culture. Just because it is black people who are doing it, that is not culture. These are perverts because there is no culture which allows marriage of young girls. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
SENATE
OFFICIAL HANDOVER OF CYCLONE IDAI DONATIONS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The
Presiding Officers of Parliament cordially invite all Members of the Committee on Standing Rules and Order, Members of the
Chairperson’s Panel and Chairpersons of Committees to the official handover of Cyclone Idai relief to the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, Hon, J. Moyo on Wednesday, 31st
July 2019 to be held in the Members Dining Room at 0900 hours. +HON. SEN. PHUTI: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity that you have given me to raise my issue concerning the motion that has been moved. In my view the economic situation in the country has created these problems that are being faced by the girl children. In most cases these children who will be coming from poor households, if they see old men who are rich and driving good cars, they will then give in to that because they will be thinking that this is the best way to make sure that they remove poverty from their family. Parents in such situations in most cases accept such actions as they think this is the best way to move out of poverty.
Nowadays people with money are the gold panners who in most cases are prying on these young girls. In addition, other people that also come through with money are politicians, just because they will be showing money before everything else and they take advantage of the girl-children.
The other issue that I have observed that has come as a challenge to this issue is our culture which says when a girl child is born they are given to a certain man or guy whilst they are still young and there are some people who are still following those cultural practices. It also comes out in certain churches where prophets come up with prophecies that say I saw your girl-child being married to this old man and they then want to get that prophesy to fruition and they make sure that those kids are married to those old men.
The other issue pertains to greediness. Men easily get carried away girls dressed in a modern way, especially children who will be dressed in hipstars - I do not know why men are behaving like this whether it is tablets or what, I really do not know. I also would like to blame our country’s law because they are not stringent to people who get married to young girls. There are stringent measures which are supposed to be given to all those people that are still engaged in such things whereby long jail terms should be given to such people. People who will be showing their money to these young girls then approach these girls yet after all they are already infected with HIV/AIDS and they are on treatment. These girls after engaging in sexual activities with such people, quickly get into challenges whereby they also get infected with the same diseases.
We continue to urge men to desist from doing this because they are really infecting our girls with diseases like HIV/AIDS. Other challenges that come with marriage of girls at a young age are divorces.
There are so many divorces because at a later stage, the young girl will get to realise that the old man is just too old for her and then think of getting married to someone younger. Some men take advantage of their housemaids, those girls will be trying to earn a living but then men take advantage of such children. So, please men we really need to make sure that we treat those children as our children and not act irresponsibly. For men who continue to marry young girls, I am of the view that if there is need for government to introduce a way of using a burdizzo to such men, please let it be so.
For men who continue to marry young children, this is something that we really need to make sure that we get that stopped. The girl child must be protected by us as parents. The economic challenges that parents are facing are also contributing very gravely to those challenges whereby parents go out of the country living their children with other people to take care of them. When those children grow in the absence of their parents, there are bound to be such challenges. We really need to be responsible as parents.
HON. SEN. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Thank you Mr. President,
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for bringing up this motion. It is because internationally, the UN has taken up the issue of child marriages very seriously and I think Zimbabwe should not be left out or left behind. It is so important that this Bill has come up at this point in time and through its agencies, UNFPA, UNICEF, WHO, UNAIDS, the issue of child marriage is now very current and so, it is important that we have taken it on board. We need now to say to ourselves in our society, what is the cause of those early marriages? In medicine, we always want to find the cause so that you can treat properly, that is the job that we must do in this Senate, to find out the causes of early marriages. The simple answer, common denominator is poverty. Poverty is causing early marriages. We want to find out those communities where child marriages are rampant, those communities that are doing that have a high rate of poverty.
We do not want to dwell too much on religion but it is aligned to that as well. It is important that as Senators, we must pick the main causes. In fact, you will find that in this community the issue of early marriages is more related to early sex and pregnancies in teenagers. It is not so much early marriages, vana vedu havasi kukurumidza iyezvino kuroorwa except in certain communities. What is happening is early sex; you will see a nine year old who is sexually active - that is the problem now. Therefore, a lot of teenage pregnancies are happening and the pregnancies will then force them to marry. So, let us look at those issues and see how our television and social media impact on our children’s lives. We must address those things. What are our social media and televisions inciting in our children, what are they going beyond what we can manage, how do we deal with this?
Like what Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira has said, what are we going to do? I think these are the things we need to look at - how do we address this issue that a child will be alone in hisher bedroom and opening prohibited sites to under age. They will then be subjected to things that even us as adults do not know. How do we address these things? I think this is what our society and community is saying. Why do we discourage early marriages? Firstly, the child has not grown up psychologically and the child is being taken advantage of. You have spoken on this earlier on in this Senate. That is why they can be tempted into doing a lot of things. The child can be infected with a lot of diseases particularly HIV/AIDS, sexually transmitted infections, fungal infections on their genitals; they become really rampant and we now know that the highest HIV prevalence is among our teenagers. That is where the prevalence rate is high. I think we need to take this issue very seriously but align this to early sex and teenage pregnancies.
The fact that the children will get married early – yes, and again another issue is to align the age of consent and the age of majority which is now 18 years. The age of consent used to be 16 years; if the child says yes then it is okay because of the issue of statutory rape. We must be clear in our minds what we are saying about 16 and 18 years and about statutory rape. Those things, I think should come in very strongly as we debate this issue. There are people who are lobbying saying what do we do with a thirteen year old child who comes to a clinic looking for contraceptives. These are the issues that we should discuss. Do we then say that if that child goes to a nurse, the nurse is supposed to give contraceptives or condoms to that child? I think these are issues which we should take seriously as Senators. What has been said about having a workshop where we discuss and come up with a paper and say this is what has come from Zimbabwe and that if it is taken outside, it is known that it is our position in Zimbabwe. With these few words, I add to what has been said by other Hon. Senators who debated before me.
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: Thank you Hon. President of Senate. I would like to thank Amai Tongogara for raising this motion.
Tongogara. That name alone – we will stay even if it is hot or bad, that is where this woman belongs.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, it is
Hon. Sen. Tongogara and not ‘amai’
*HON. SEN. HUNGWE: That is true, I am not used to speaking in this House. I have heard you Mr. President. I beg your pardon.
Hon. Sen. Tongogara – I do not know if I am also a Senator -
[Laughter.]-
I want to support what has been debated by other Hon. Senators in this House. We have been listening and this is not the first time this has been debated. We have been hearing this debate from the National
Assembly up to this House. Like what others have been saying, Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira was now going deeper with this issue but he stopped along the way, everything has been said and written down.
What is left is what we should do.
If you want to go for a workshop, do not bother us about what we know about children; we need to talk about how we can stop this issue. As I see it, this issue of child marriages is caused by uncontrolled appetite of men. That appetite is the issue we are supposed to deal with. We need to find ways of dealing with those who are greedy. There is greediness of the highest level – we need to stop greediness if we are going to go to a workshop as suggested by Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira.
There is another Hon. woman Senator sitting across, I can see that she is sad about this issue – we need to know what we have to do with those who are greedy. That is the only issue Mr. President. You have not seen that greediness is not a need. It is not because I love the woman, you cannot control someone with excessive appetite if you have not removed the greediness in his mind. It comes from the mind. Hon. Senators, let us have a workshop to resolve this issue of excessive appetite (makaro) - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - This greediness is the one which causes all these problems.
I came into this Parliament in 1985 and this issue was discussed but like what Hon. Sen. Charumbira has said, nothing has been done. Let us know what should be done to someone who is greedy. If someone is greedy, he even takes other people’s food and not his. Greediness causes one to eat other people’s children and not yours. We need to agree Mr. President, that if we go there, let us go and find ways of stopping greediness. As has been said by former Minister Hon. Sen.
Parirenyatwa that poverty is the main cause – we were born poor, there is no relationship. Greediness is the issue. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. FEMAI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara which is very important. It is important to us here because some of us here are grandfathers, fathers, mothers and grandmothers of these young girls who are being abused. I have seen it important that I put my voice on people who are greedy.
Firstly, I would like to thank Sen. Charumbira who thought wisely that we have been talking about this issue for a long time. May be this needs a workshop because at a workshop you will come up with resolutions that we have agreed that a person who is greedy should be arrested, it is better. I want to support this idea of a workshop. If it is possible Mr. President, you should take it upon yourself to make sure that this workshop happens. I know you will not fail because you are capable. We can have a workshop where we can come up with resolutions about people who are greedy.
I want to say long back, greedy people were punished. We would hear that something taboo has been done and someone was made to pay for it. These things were limited because if you were poor, you would know that you will not get cattle to settle the matter. This is what the chiefs used to do. Now that chiefs are crying that they no longer have the authority, I know that their authority has been removed. I have not heard a chief who has arrested someone for taboo activities. If chiefs were given the authority to preside over these issues, they would stop this problem. If you go where nyawo dances are done, when you see a nyawo dancer dancing, those women who will be cheering it up are young girls of 15 years of age and they will be having babies on their backs. As someone who would have invited a chinyawo, as an MP enjoying himself when the Nyawo are dancing whilst the cheering young girls are having babies on their backs, it means that they have been abused and that is very problematic. We have to see what we can do about this issue where we are inviting people who are perpetrators of child abuse to perform at our functions.
If you go to apostolic sects, you will see the apostolic members who are very greedy. If you see the number of the under 16 and under 12 wives belonging to this member, he will be walking and young girls will be following behind him – what will happen at the church? You will see an older person at the church wearing a garment and is officiating at a function where young girls have been abused as a leader and you are now blessing that. You have gone to bless where girls are being abused. If you do not go there as a leader, they will know that what we are doing is bad.
These are the things which are affecting us in life and we need to have workshops and investigate that as elders and leaders, we must go where abuse is being done. Do not touch a door which has been broken into because your fingerprints will be found on that door and you will be accused of a crime. I am asking that this workshop be done and this time we are supposed to come up with resolutions on what we would do about this issue. We have to come up with a resolution after the workshop to arrest people who abuse young girls and those who marry young girls need to be punished.
Some of them use the name of God and say God has said I have to marry a young girl. That is abuse and young girls because of lack of knowledge, they think that it has come from God when we know that these are just earthly greediness. I want to say that what has been brought up by Hon. Tongogara is very important and it should succeed. Greedy people should be arrested, as was said by the Hon. Member who spoke just before me. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. M. R. DUBE: Thank you Mr. President. I want to support the motion moved by Hon. Tongagara and it is a good motion. It is very painful because some of us are the ones who abuse our children. Our relatives are the ones who are using young girls.
I want to talk about what happened to me. When my father came from selling his cattle and met my aunt who asked for me to visit her; my father told my mother that my aunt wanted me to visit her. When I got to my aunt’s place, she said that she was being abused among the six wives of her husband. She was the first wife but she was complaining that she was being abused. She said that the other wives were bringing their young sisters and they were happy at the home but now she was being abused because she was failing to bring her young sister and she wanted me to be the wife to her husband. She said that I had gone to school and I was the better person compared to others. She said I was going to be driving the car, to run the shops and drive the car to Bulawayo.
I was troubled and I wanted to find a way to go back home. If I wanted to play with other kids, she would say do not go anywhere because you are a wife here and you have to remain at home. That is very painful. It is very painful to know that you are being abused by your relative when you are protecting yourself or keeping yourself for your husband. My aunt asked what I thought about it and I made a plan and pretended to agree as she had said that I would be driving.
I knew that the bus at our home area came at around 12 and the dogs were vicious at that home. So, I asked for bones to give to the dogs so that they get used to me. So I always kept these bones and one night at about 10 o’clock, I told myself that since I had enough bones, I would get out of the house. So, I gave the bones to these dogs and I walked out of the yard. So, I left those dogs eating those bones and I left and went. I got into the bus at midnight and I did not pay the fare because the conductors knew me. So, I told my mother what I had experienced at my aunt’s place and my father said if the husband and my sister ever come here, I will axe them but, if I had not planned how I was going to get out of that situation, I was going to be the bones for that husband.
After realising that children are being abused, as a counsellor at Victoria Falls, I went off to Namibia and there I found very young children and asked what they were doing in Namibia and they said that it was not well at home. They said we are from the apostolic sect but, as young girls, we are being given to old men at the church. So, we saw it fit to run away to another country. Some of them ran away from this country because they were being abused. Those children used to sleep at an open area where it is very cold because it is near the sea and you cannot be comfortable there.
I asked one of the kids and she said that she comes from Manicaland. She said I left because my mother and father who are my parents agreed that I get married to one old man at church since she was taking care of them. So, I ran away and they threatened me that if I ran away, that man was going to pray that I die but I realised that they were lying that anyone can pray for someone’s death. So I ran away to Namibia. Three other people who came from Manicaland who found this girl said that that man is looking for that young lady. That young girl said she was going to die in Namibia. She is not alone Mr.
President.
A lot of young girls are running away from this country because of greedy men. I think that a castration is needed for men who abuse young girls because young girls are in trouble. Another girl was saying that I was the twelfth of his wives.
*HON. SEN. M. DUBE (Speaking)… Another girl was saying
that I was the twelfth of his wives. She said that I used to bath my husband. If you look at the age of that girl, she was very young but she was made to bath an old man and that girl said she was going to die in Namibia. These young girls are not going outside as refugees to look for work but they are running away from abuse. Some of them leave this country sick and they die outside there because they do not get health support in the foreign lands. This should stop.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st July, 2019.
MOTION
DEVELOPMENT OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN
TOWNS AND GROWTH POINTS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the perennial shortages of clean and potable water in most towns and growth points.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Hon. President. I want to thank Hon. Wunganayi for bringing this motion to this House. Mr. President, most of the gentlemen who have been in Government since 1980…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, they
are not gentlemen, they are Hon. Senators. Withdraw the word gentlemen.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Okay, I withdraw. Mr. President, Hon. Senators who have been in this Parliament since 1980 are aware of the problem of water in this country. The problem of water, like what Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira said, is similar to what has been going on. What are we doing about supply of water, not just in cities but even our villages? What are we doing about supply of clean and potable water to our cities, villages and every Zimbabwean citizen? It is a human right that we should have water. I want to highlight the situation of Harare for instance, since 1980, there have been plans that there will be a dam to be built in Harare to augment supplies of water. I remember the time of Minister Kangai, I think he was one of the Ministers who tried to put tenders on Kunzvi project, some years back. I was an Engineer at City of Harare. There were plans to build Kunzvi Dam, Musami Dam, and to build a dam around Mupfure River so that we bring water to Harare. Up to today, there is nothing in spite of all those plans that have happened to Harare to ensure that we get water.
Mr. President, let us not be ashamed of ourselves. We are one country, one nation and we are one people. It is never correct to say it is them against us. When we speak from the Opposition sometimes it is like we are speaking fibs. We must be correcting each other. We must correct this anomaly where we have so many projects that we have put in place and nothing has happened up to now. We have no power today because we have just failed to do a simple thing to build a power plant.
I want to give you an example. I was the Minister of Energy, the mess that we did is, we went and built something in Kariba which was not necessary. You can never exceed the supply of 750 kilowatts at Kariba because of water supply, the size of the dam and the rest. The priority should have been somewhere but because people just want to do wrong projects, they do them wrongly. Today we want foreign currency, we had US dollars all these ten years and we could have done a lot with those US dollars. We had a designated currency which could have been used to buy a new plant which could use coal.
On water itself, we could have done a new plant at City of Harare. We could have done a new dam at Kunzvi but today we are all speaking about easy of doing business, we are all speaking about austerity measures. What sort of austerity do we talk about when we punish ourselves, when we cannot do a simple thing? You know Musikavanhu God, has given us a gift. If we were living in a country with bad weather like Europe, we will all be dead. We cannot plan for a simple thing like our own water. This is the Capital City, this is where we say everyone who wants to come will do business but we cannot built an extra dam, there is no water in this city.
You talk of Bulawayo, there is one aquifer that was identified long back. There has been talk of Zambezi Water Project, there has been a Committee on Zambezi Water Project but what has happened to those committees and those boards that were created, nothing. So, what is the job of this Parliament? We have forgotten that we have an oversight role. When I speak of oversight role, it means we have the best mandate as Parliament to check and balance. We are the only people who can stop a Government. Yes, we can pretend that we are trying to make things work. If we are not careful, we do what we call work avoidance. Work avoidance is avoiding doing the difficult thing, telling Hon. Mudzuri that you are rapping your own daughter – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – You must tell me that what you are doing is wrong. What we are doing today is wrong, all of us, because we are not speaking the truth to each other. When you speak truth to power, you are helping your country. You are more of a nationalist. I have told you that since 1980. What are we doing to correct this ill? There is not a single city with adequate water and it is a shame that if I speak of Harare, the extra plans that we are doing to say we want to build dams – now we are living on wells.
Most of you have been given stands in Harare, where is the water going to come from? What is the plant sewerage system? Harare is built upstream of its water treatment plant, that is, Lake Chivero and Lake Manyame. If you go to Lake Manyame now you should be able to pump water from Lake Manyame to bring it up to mix with water from Lake Chivero which highly retroficated. There is no plan anymore. In the past, Government used to aid councils by borrowing money from EIB and World Bank, but today there is nothing. How do we supply this water when we speak of shortage of foreign currency and nothing is being delivered?
Honestly Hon. Sen. Wunganayi has done a good job but when we speak here who listens? There is not a single Minister who comes to listen to us. We are all debating amongst ourselves. Whom are we telling this story of shortage of water, abuse of children and the rest of the things? Today’s debate was very interesting. Today the Senate has been lively, especially on this debate on child marriages. It was very exciting. We can talk of a workshop but a workshop does not make a Bill. We do not make rules for a simple thing. We do not legislative for every mistake. We must correct our culture. We must sit like a nation and address some of these ills together.
You want to speak to a Minister it is like it is a war. They do not want to see us. They will tell you I will see you. You do not see them. What sort of a country is this? We can differ but we should be able to talk about the future of this country. Where are we headed without water? Who will come and invest? The first thing a person wants to see is water and power. If you fly across this country there is no fuel. There are queues. You cannot even run a generator to do business. What ease of doing business are we talking about if we have no water? I am urging Government that if we do not work towards supply of water, we are doomed. All these diseases – the former Minister of Health if here.
He is just there to treat. Prevention is better than cure. How are we preventing this shortage of water? Tell me how many dams were built after independence. How long has it taken to build Tokwe-Mukorsi? It was closed, tenders were not done properly and there was so much corruption which was done by our people which we cannot curb. No one curbs that because we are always arresting the wrong people.
I was told when I was fired as a mayor that people who go to prison are the honest ones. Those who are normally charged are just charged but the real culprits will be known and they will survive. The high percentage goes to prison because they are used as a shield to protect those who might have done the bigger game.
We need to be more serious about stopping this corruption. From 1980 we have failed to build enough dams to supply Harare, Bulawayo and Masvingo with water. Most of the boreholes were done by the NGOs. Of late, I hear there are some boreholes which were being done and they are going a bit deeper. I remember the Minister of Water last time saying we are going beyond 70m. There is nothing like going beyond 70m if you have not studied the aquifer of that area. If you go beyond 70m you might even chase the water away. Some of us we are engineers. I will be honest with you, no one wants to use your brain.
They want to use a foreigner’s brain.
When you call consultants, sometimes you want to use foreigners.
I remember when I was an engineer at City of Harare. We had a report on Kunzvi. I think Hon. Sen. Chief Charumbira was Deputy Minister and I was an engineer then. I had to travel to Germany to Dusseldorf to write a report so that a German would seem like he has brought a report because what we had written was not being accepted by our own people. If I write a report on engineering things that let us do this, you do not agree that I have the stuff. You want to agree on a foreigner who will write a report, but why do you not allow me to experiment. It passed the mark and those people had to use me to say you are just idle. When reports are written by Germans then it has come from real experts.
Let us be serious as a nation. Let us put our money where our mouth is. Let us make sure that all these small cities and towns are well catered for. Let us bring in water. Let us do proper studies to make sure that we do a scientific process to ensure that water comes in. We always say God will intervene. God will not intervene in matters of science. There is no way you and me can reproduce a child, Mr President. I am saying science cannot be changed because God has already told us what to do. If you want water you have to bring it to your place.
Botswana has done better than us. When we became independent Botswana was far away from us but when you look at Botswana they have used their resources for purposes of developing their country. When you do macroeconomic formula, which I believe should be done in this country – I want us to ask the Minister of Finance this time when he does his Budget – he must plug his macroeconomic formula and say how are you going to plug those things. To build these dams we need savings. We were debating about insurances which are part of savings..
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon Sen.
Eng. Mudzuri, the people who are recording your speech are complaining, can you use one language. It is difficult for them to hop from one language to the other.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you very much Mr
President but sometimes if I was writing, I was going to put quotes.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: But you are
not writing.
HON. SEN. ENG. MUDZURI: If I was writing I was going to
put quotes. Some of these words have been put into English in terms of speech because it is difficult. You have disturbed my line of thought.
My conclusion to this debate is that let us embrace what Hon. Sen.
Wunganayi has said. Let us insist - the Minister of Finance and this Parliament, we have enough supplies of raw water to all our cities and secondly proper treatment and supply of chemicals that make us drink potable water. If we do not do it, we are dying slowly, especially those in Harare. We are going to die because there are so many diseases we are contracting from partially treated water because of lack of foreign currency and proper treatment. I thank you.
^^HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me this opportunity to debate. Without water there is no life even fish need water and any other animal. Can you allow me to talk about water, and not water alone, but I will also talk about clean water. We are facing so many challenges, our rivers and dams are drying. Looking at the big dam in Beitbridge, by the time we were young, this dam was always full of water. As we are talking right now, the water levels are very low. In big towns like Harare and Bulawayo, people are facing challenges because there is no water. People are spending almost a week without water and there are reports saying that water is being sold in these towns.
If people are selling water, who knows the cleanliness of this water which is being sold in these towns? There is a danger of diseases like typhoid and diarrhea that thrive in dirty water. I will first talk about things that cause waters bodies to be dirty. Irrigation, in our area most people are doing irrigation - people are no longer doing irrigation projects properly. Some of them especially those in region 5 have livestock and they do not have water. People are now digging wells to try and find water for irrigation, but there is no water and people are no longer doing irrigation projects.
I will talk about the Zhove Dam in Beitbridge - that is a very big dam. This dam has never run out of water but looking at the situation as we are talking right now, people are facing challenges. There is no water for livestock and irrigation, what are people going to do? The water table is now very low and on boreholes people are having difficulties because some are being sunk for more than 100 metres but still there is no water. Women and these young girls whom you have been talking about are facing challenges because they spend a lot of time fetching water. These are the same people who are pained the most by this issue because they need water to bath, bath their children and cook. What are they going to do? How are we going to solve this problem? We are always talking about access to clean water. When we look at women, every child who wants water will always run to the mother, she will have to go and look for water. Women also fetch water for the whole family, water for their husbands and children to bath.
Looking at electricity, people are facing challenges, what are we going to do to solve this issue? Why can everyone not use the solar system in order to solve this electricity problem? If we use the solar system this will help us ease some of the challenges we are facing. Solar energy will help us pump water from the boreholes. On major towns like Harare and Bulawayo and some small towns, we are appealing to the Government to help us with chemicals to clean our water.
Without wasting much time, our Government needs to have a solution regarding the water challenges. What is the Government doing in order to address this situation? We must drill boreholes so that people will continue to have clean safe water for drinking in order to prevent diseases which will be affecting the people. Thank you very much Mr. President for giving me this time.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st July, 2019.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. MOHADI, the House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes to Five
o’clock p.m.