PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday 30th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE ACTING SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 6 has been disposed of.
HON. GONESE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
THIRD REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE
ON THE FINDINGS BY THE AUDITOR GENERAL ON 2014 APPROPRIATION ACCOUNTS FOR MINISTRY OF FINANCE
AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
HON. MPARIWA: I move the motion in my name that this
House takes note and adopts the Third Report of the Public Accounts
Committee on the findings by the Auditor General on 2014 Appropriation Accounts for Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and other Statements under its purview.
HON. CHIBAYA: I second.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this
opportunity to present the Third Report of the Public Accounts
Committee, on the findings by the Auditor General on the 2014 Appropriation Accounts for the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and other Statements under its purview.
1.0 INTRODUCTION
The Public Accounts Committee examined the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development accounting and management practices based on the findings of the Auditor General on the Ministry’s 2014 Appropriation Account and other Statements under its purview. In view of the central role played by Treasury in ensuring full accountability, regularity and propriety in the handling and expenditure of public resources as provided in the Public Finance Management Act, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should lead by example by ensuring that it observes timelines in producing accounts for audit, it produces clean audits and in the event of any observations raised during audits, it responds and acts promptly on audit findings.
It is with regret that the Public Accounts Committee noted that as custodians of public funds, the Ministry has not been able to live up to these expectations during the last three years as demonstrated by late submission of consolidated accounts and other statements for audit and failure to respond to and act on audit findings. Some of the issues raised in this Report had been outstanding since 2013.
The Committee however, notes that the appointment of a new
Accountant General in the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is promising a new dispensation within the Ministry. When the Ministry appeared before the Committee, he demonstrated unwavering commitment to change the way things were being done within the Ministry and eventually across all line Ministries.
He expressed the view that he expected nothing less than professional conduct among the accountants within his department. The Committee is pleased to report to the House that some of the observations raised in the 2014 Auditor General’s Annual Report on the
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development’s Appropriation accounts and other statements were being addressed to the satisfaction of the Committee.
Below is a summary of key findings, observations and recommendations by the Committee.
2.0 OBJECTIVES
Section 299 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment No. 20 of 2013 states as follows:
(1) Parliament must monitor and oversee expenditure by State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of Government at every level, including statutory bodies, Government controlled entities, provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities, in order to ensure that-
- All revenue is accounted for;
- All expenditure has been properly incurred; and
- Any limits and conditions on appropriations have been observed.
Section 309 (2) (a) mandates the Auditor General to audit accounts, financial systems and financial management by all public institutions. National Assembly Standing Order No. 16 provides for the Public Accounts Committee and mandates it to examine the sums granted by Parliament to meet public expenditure and such other accounts laid before the National Assembly.
It reports whether such public funds have been managed and expended as authorised by Parliament. It is within this mandate that the Committee examined the accounts and other statements under the purview of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development as reported by the Auditor General in her annual report for the financial year ended December, 31, 2014.
In undertaking its oversight role, the Committee expects the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to implement the recommendations and put measures in place to prevent the recurrences of the observations raised on the Ministry’s accounts and other statements under its purview.
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee held two oral evidence sessions with Mr W.
Manungo, the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and other senior officials within the Ministry. It considered written and oral submissions received from the Ministry and has come up with this report with findings, observations and recommendations for take note and adoption by the House.
4.0 FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS BY THE COMMITTEE
4.1 THE PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT SYSYEM
The Government of Zimbabwe introduced the Public Finance
Management System (PFMS) in 1999. This is a networked computer based system which allows Ministries to carry out accounting and financial transactions. The system is managed centrally by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and as a result, allows Treasury access to line Ministries’ management information and be in a position to control, monitor and supervise the management of public funds. The system however was rendered ineffective during the hyperinflationary era as it failed to cope with the escalating figures.
Following the introduction of the multicurrency system, there were renewed efforts to get the system back on track. Since 2009, there have been a number of challenges which the audit drew attention to from year to year. From 2009 to 2011 the system experienced constant down time due to connectivity challenges. As a result, certain transactions were done outside the system with the intention to upload when the System was up but sometimes never got uploaded. The other challenge was that some outlying Government stations were not connected and as a result, they had to transmit transactions done manually to the nearest input location. In this environment, reconciliations of the Sub Paymaster General Accounts with the PFMS had proved to be a nightmare for the majority of Ministries.
During the 2014 Annual Audit, the Office of the Auditor General carried out an audit exercise to determine the effectiveness of the general information technology controls of the PFMS. The findings are highlighted below.
4.1.1 Officials granted access to PFMS SAP ALL Profile
System outside the official job descriptions.
The System Application Products in data processing (SAP) ALL profile grants unlimited access to the system including all functional areas and Basic Security Administration. Audit sought assurance that access was granted based on business need and restricted to a limited number of users who were being monitored closely. Audit found out that a senior official in the Accountant General’s Office was granted access to the system which enabled him to create and delete accounting documents, which was not in line with his job description.
The Accountant General however, assured the Committee during oral evidence that indeed access was granted based on business need and currently access was now limited to a limited number of users. He informed the Committee that access was granted to the Director PFMS, the Deputy Director PFMS and the PFMS Technical Manager in the
Ministry of Information Communication Technology and Courier
Services.
The official in question was the Acting Accountant General and was granted access on the basis of a perceived need. It was envisaged that should the need arise for the Accountant General to authorise changes in the system, he would be able to effect such changes. The Ministry had however acknowledged the control weaknesses associated with such a decision. As corrective measure, the Ministry withdrew access by all users with effect from 18 May, 2015 and currently access will temporarily be granted for specified transactions approved by the Accountant General. The Ministry had also put in place procedures which were availed to the Committee as evidence, which require user Ministries to formally request and justify granting of user profile and before such access is granted, requests are scrutinised to ensure consistency with the user’s job descriptions and rule out any conflict of roles with an existing profile for the same users. The Committee was satisfied with the measures taken to address the audit finding.
4.1.2 Audit Module not enabled in the new version of the SAP system (EHP7)
The Audit Information System is used to record user activities on the SAP application system in audit logs (trails). Audit found out that in March 2014, when the SAP system was upgraded from ECC6.0 to EHP7, the Audit Module was not enabled within the SAP system. The risk is that if the audit information system is not activated to enable recording of activities and their nature, possible violation or violation attempts may not be detected in a timely manner and there would be no trail of what took place. The Accountant General advised the Committee that the audit log for workstation identification was not activated due to low storage space on existing hardware and they had limited resources to fund the purchase of the additional servers required for capacity expansion.
In order to address the finding, the Ministry with the assistance from African Development Bank (AfDB), had ordered two super servers. The procurement process was reportedly underway. It was also the view of the Ministry that with the current scenario, it was still possible for Audit to generate and print reports that have complete audit trail. In addition, Ministries also prepared reconciliations which auditors can still refer to. However, the Auditor General pointed out that such individual modules prepared would not meet audit requirements and in many cases Ministries are not up to date with reconciliations, hence cannot be relied upon.
4.1.2.1 On the basis of the submissions received, the Committee recommends that Treasury should purchase the additional servers to allow the activation of the Audit Module within the System by 30th September, 2016.
4.1.3 Absence of supporting documentation to track
changes in the SAP System to ascertain appropriateness and approval by Management
A change management process includes programme modifications, emergency changes, tracking and reporting, testing and approval of new and revised software. The SAP application system has the capacity to generate system changes reports and there was an upgrade of the system from version ECC6.0 to EHP7 in March 2014. There were no supporting documentation for changes made to ascertain appropriateness and approval by Management. This may promote invalid or inappropriate changes into the production environment, resulting in inappropriate modifications to system programmes, applications and data. The Accountant General acknowledged the finding and admitted that there was no supporting document for changes made and the process was therefore not adhered to. He assured the Committee that future changes will be subject to formal approval procedures. As a matter of process, he highlighted that for any system upgrades, the Director PFMS will initiate and justify the proposed changes and the Deputy Accountant General (Accounting Services) will recommend changes for the
Accountant General’s approval. When successfully implemented, the
Director PFMS will recommend acceptance to the Deputy Accountant
General and the Accountant General will sign off. In addition, the
Accountant General directed Internal Audit to independently review the process. Thereafter, the SAP Transport System will effect changes to the system.
4.1.3.1 The Committee was satisfied with the measures taken by the Ministry to address the audit finding. It however recommended that Internal Auditors involved in the change process should not be the ones to carry out the audit in the areas they were involved in as that would amount to self-review.
4.1.4 Failure by the Central Computing Service to maintain the
98% system availability as stated in the Ministry’s Departmental
Integrated Performance Agreement (DIPA)
System availability is the probability that a system will work and as required when required to perform the intended tasks and activity. System monitoring entails periodical assessment of security, information threats, vulnerabilities and communicating the security logs (audit trails) for continuous process improvements. According to the Ministry’s DIPA, the system should be functional 98% of the System uptime. The audit observed that the Central Computing Services had not been able to maintain the stipulated uptime for the System. Furthermore, the licence for the Solarwinds Network Monitoring Tool (for monitoring network availability) had expired and hence the tool was not functional at the time of audit. The risk associated with this finding is that the network problems may go undetected if the network is not being reviewed.
The Accountant General acknowledged that at the time of Audit, system availability was below the 98% target but currently the target was reportedly being maintained and the Solarwinds Network Monitoring Tool was up and running. He added that during times when the Solarwinds System is not functional, they still make use of the bandwidth monitor and PFMS application tools to monitor system availability. When there are connectivity issues for critical payment transaction, Ministries would go to the nearest connectivity point to effect payments. For revenue, they resort to manual receipting and subsequently capture the data when connectivity is available. The
Ministry had also opened provincial offices in Bulawayo, Masvingo,
Gweru and Mutare to provide technical support to provincial users. The Committee observed that adequate measures had been taken to address the observation.
4.1.5 I.T. Security Policy
The Information Security Policy communicates how an
organisation plans to protect its physical and information assets. It serves to set a standard for the security procedures to be followed. Audit sought assurance that the policy had been approved by Management and communicated to all staff members to ensure that they were aware of their security responsibilities. Audit also sought assurance that staff had signed off acknowledgement forms as evidence of having read the policy. However, though the Ministry had an IT Security Policy in place, it did not address the following aspects as recommended by best practises:
- It was not endorsed by Management;
- Review periods were not specified;
- It did not specify how the policy would be communicated to users;
- There was no evidence to show that the policy was communicated to users during the period under review;
(e)There was no Management statement to support the goals and principles of IT;
- Data and Information Ownership was not stated;
- Consequences of Information Security Policy violations were not clearly stated; and
- The Business Continuity Policy was not endorsed by the management.
The absence of an approved documentation may imply that
Management’s commitment to the implementation of data security practices and guidelines is low. The Accountant General advised the Committee that the finding had been addressed as the policy document was now in place. He indicated that they will extract the relevant sections and share these with users through circulars and the system inbox. It is intended that relevant staff members will sign off and retain the extracted sections of the policy document. Copies of the signed off acknowledgements will be kept on personal files as the policy now includes best practices benchmarks and review timeframes. The finding was therefore, addressed to the Committee’s satisfaction.
4.1.6 Upload of expenditure by Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the SAP System after the 13th period of one month after the end of a financial year
All expenditure transactions by Government Ministries and Departments are processed through the SAP system. Uploading of expenditure involves capturing accounting transactions which were processed outside the system. Audit observed that some Ministries, in particular, Foreign Affairs and Home Affairs continued to post prior year (2014) expenditures in the SAP system up to as late as March 2015, two months after the stipulated 13th period of January 31, 2015. It was observed that the 13th period was reopened for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs after applying to Treasury. This was contrary to the standard 13th period of one month after the end of the financial year. Thus, at the time of Audit in March 12, 2015, Foreign Missions expenditures for October to December 2014 were still being captured at the Ministry’s Head Office.
The risk of this finding is that failure to close the 13th period by the due date will result in Ministries failing to submit accounts on time, others may also introduce new expenditures resulting in understating the Appropriation Accounts. The Accountant General advised the
Committee that due to the number of Foreign Missions under Foreign Affairs, a dispensation was granted to the Ministry to account for expenditure for the previous year. He assured the Committee that going forward, all adjustments after the 13th period will be done in the 14th period, 15th period for internal audit adjustments and 16th for external audit adjustments.
In his view, this approach is an improvement in that for each period, a trial balance can be extracted without distortions to previous periods. Furthermore, he advised the Committee that they will extract cut-off periods to include 14th, 15th and 16th periods to enable them to extract a correct trial balance at each period end. The Authority to open after the year end rest with the Accountant General’s office and Ministries could not unilaterally input data relevant for the closed periods.
4.1.6.1 The Committee recommends that the Accountant
General’s Office, going forward, should enforce the cut off periods in line with best practices. In this regard the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should observe the 13th period cut off deadline and close its books of accounts for the current year by 31st January, 2017.
4.1.7 Failure by the System to display asset register for the
Ministries of Finance and Economic Development; Information
Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services and
Foreign Affairs
The SAP system maintains a register of assets for Ministries and Government Departments. The system could not display asset registers therefore audit could not verify the assets for the Ministries of Finance and Economic Development, Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services and Foreign Affairs, in the system. Assets for the Ministry of Defence could be displayed in the system but only those acquired from 2009 to date. Assets for all Ministries bought prior to 2009 were therefore, not in the system at the time of audit. The audit further revealed that the problem with asset upload was a configuration problem affecting assets purchased prior to the introduction of the multicurrency system. The risk associated with this finding is that if some assets are not recorded in the system the integrity and completeness of asset records becomes compromised and unreliable.
The Accountant General acknowledged the finding. He pointed out that where a Ministry had to make adjustments of any kind after the 13th period, the system could only display the asset register after a depreciation run has been carried out. This was not done for the ministries in question when the audit was carried out. He advised the Committee that the Ministry was working on improving the system design with a view to separate expenditures from commitments. In addition, he pointed out that Government operates on cash basis accounting and all assets bought since dollarization, have been captured in the system at cost. A physical record was being maintained, but does not include values for assets bought before dollarization. He assured the
Committee that Ministries had complete manual records of all assets that they held prior to dollarization without the original costs being reflected but for assets after dollarization, the costs of such are included in the assets registers.
4.1.7.1 The Committee observed that maintenance of up to date
assets registers was a challenge in a number of Ministries. It therefore, recommends training on maintenance of asset registers across Ministries by 30th September, 2016.
4.1.7.2 It also recommends that all accounting officers should
closely monitor this area and ensure asset registers are checked for completeness and accuracy by January 31st, every year.
4.1.8 Variance observed between the 2013 returns
submitted by line Ministries and those by Treasury as well as balances in the SAP System
The 2013 returns submitted by some line Ministries had different figures from those submitted by the Treasury and balances in the SAP system. Registers for Public Financial Assets were not being maintained in the system. Expenditures for Lending and Equity only appeared in the year the payments were made by Ministries. However, repayments were not deducted from the original payments made through the system as only manual records were being maintained. In addition, the Ministry of Finance made direct payments to service providers such as CMED (Pvt) Ltd, NetOne and TelOne. In some instances documents pertaining to such transactions were not availed to line Ministries, thereby resulting in differences between Treasury records and those of line Ministries. If up to date records are not maintained in the system, the completeness and reliability of Public Financial Assets may be compromised.
The Accountant General concurred that Public Financial Assets were not properly recorded by line Ministries. As a corrective measure, the Ministry had created a manual Public Financial Asset Register which was availed to the Committee as evidence. The Accountant General pointed out that a Comprehensive Loans Management Module was not yet available on the PFM system, but they intend to investigate the possibility of using the newly established Debt Management System for managing all public financial assets. The Ministry is using the normal payments system which they are familiar with since they are not trained. He advised the Committee that training would be provided during 2016 on the standard way of recording loans in the Public Financial Assets Register with a view to migrating to the new system.
4.1.8.1 The Committee took note of the undertakings made by the Accountant General and recommends that training should be undertaken by the first half of 2016 to avoid recurrences in the next round of audits.
4.2 FINDINGS ON MINISTRY OF FINANCE’S
APPROPRIATION ACCOUNT (VOTE 5)
4.2.1 Direct payments to Service Providers
Treasury made direct payments amounting to $179 816 213 to service providers on behalf of line Ministries. Treasury informed the Committee that such payments were made on the strength of confirmation by Directors of Finance in line Ministries, service providers and the Zimbabwe Revenue Authority (ZIMRA). On the other hand, line Ministries alleged that such payments were made without their knowledge and as a result, they were not able to capture the payments on their books. The challenge posed by direct payments is that they violate the principle of double entry in that only the PFMS reflects the transactions while Ministries sub-Paymaster General accounts are not charged with the expenditure.
The Accountant General explained to the Committee that direct payments were occasioned by the misalignment between consumption of utility services by line ministries and Treasury capacity to pay for such services. At the end, utility providers were not able to discharge their mandate and also meet tax obligations with ZIMRA. The Ministry provided documentation exchanged between line Ministries, Service providers and ZIMRA which enabled Treasury to effect the payments through set offs.
4.2.1.1 The Committee appreciates the difficult financial situation Government is currently facing which necessitated direct payments. It recommends that Treasury must formulate procedures for handling
direct payments to facilitate proper and systematic capturing of such transactions and curb recurrences of the audit observation in future. This should be done by 31st September 2016.
4.2.2 Expenditure reversals by line Ministries after Treasury
failed to transfer funds to line Ministries’ Sub PMG bank accounts to meet expenditure already posted in the System
Treasury failed to transfer cash to line Ministries Sub PMG bank accounts to meet expenditure that had already been posted. Line Ministries were instructed to reverse all unfunded releases as at December 31, 2014. However, the Ministry of Finance had no documentation for those unfunded expenditures. As a result of such reversals, the total expenditure for the year may be misstated if the
Ministry fails to account for the total expenditure reversals for the year.
The Accountant General advised the Committee that budget releases were done in anticipation of revenue inflows which did not materialise. Treasury monitored and ensured unpaid (open) items were reversed during the 13th period. The expenditure was then charged on the subsequent budget when releases were received. The Committee was satisfied with the action taken to address the finding.
4.2.3 Misappropriation of funds
Some Ministry officials were alleged to have connived with suppliers and third parties and defrauded the Government of substantial amounts of money. The Permanent Secretary informed the Committee that among the officials at the centre of defrauding Government, were a
Principal Director, a Deputy Accountant General, an Acting Deputy
Accountant General, 2 Chief Accountants and 5 other members of staff.
The Committee was also informed by the Secretary that seven of the officials were dismissed on February 1, 2016 in terms of
Administration procedures after the Courts had found them not guilty. One case was still being finalised and two cases were being handled by the Public Service Commission. As a control measure, the Accounting staff have been directed to take leave days regularly in order to minimize collusion.
4.2.3.1 The Committee expressed concern that this case could be a tip of the iceberg and Government might be losing funds that are in critical supply to fraudulent activities by officials. The Committee recommends Treasury to come up with a risk management framework by 31st September, 2016, which will allow close monitoring of high risk areas and curb losses through fraudulent activities.
4.2.3.2 Given the central role played by the Accountant General’s Office, the Civil Service Commission should, by 31st September, 2016, fill in the critical vacancies occasioned by this incident. The staff is critical in ensuring that audit recommendations across line Ministries, parastatals and local authorities are acted upon.
4.2.4 Use of cash before banking in violation of Treasury
Instruction 0454
The Auditor General observed that cash amounting to $20 035 was expended before it was banked in violation of Treasury Instructions. Given that Treasury is charged with the crafting of these guidelines, it is unfortunate that they were found flouting their own rules. Fraudulent activities may also be perpetrated by Ministry officials and cash may not be accounted for. The Accounting Officer admitted that failure to bank receipts in full was not procedural and in violation of standing regulations. He assured the Committee that the use of cash before banking had been stopped following the observation raised by Audit.
4.2.5 Documentation of systems by the Accountant General’s Office: failure to review Treasury Instructions after the introduction of the multi-currency system.
The Treasury Instructions, which give guidelines to user Ministries on how to Account for public funds have not been updated since the introduction of multi-currency system. In the absence of documented guidelines the integrity of the financial system is compromised as public finances will be exposed to arbitrary decisions and in some cases criminal activities. The Accountant General admitted that the Treasury
Instructions were outdated but pointed out that they were still relevant.
As a corrective measure, he advised the Committee that a new set of Treasury Instructions had been drafted and would be finalised after receiving feedback from all stakeholders during the second quarter of 2016.
4.2.5.1 The Committee recommends that the new regulations should be operational by 31st June, 2016 as the Ministry indicated.
4.2.6 Failure to revalue Government assets from the
Zimbabwean dollar to the United States dollar
Government assets have not been revalued from the Zimbabwean dollar to the United States dollar resulting in the non-disclosure or distortion of the true value of the assets in the Government records. The Accountant General advised the Committee that the issue of revaluation was not because of a lack of capacity, but a matter of accounting principle where the Government of Zimbabwe was still using cash basis accounting.
4.2.6.1 Given that some Ministries and Government departments had non-current assets at the introduction of the multicurrency system, the Committee recommends that Treasury should by 31st September, 2016, provide guidance to fund managers to enable them to revalue noncurrent assets that were in Zimbabwean dollar currency.
4.3 PROGESS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF PRIOR
YEAR’S RECOMMENDATIONS
4.3.1 Non-disclosure of Public Financial Assets
The Ministry had no Public Financial Assets Register with details of loans and investments paid to parastatals, private sector and other organisations since 2009. The Accountant General advised the Committee that Treasury had challenges in locating a consolidated public financial assets register and in order to address the long outstanding observation, Treasury was compiling a new consolidated register. The Audit however noted a big improvement in the quality of return submitted for 2014.
4.3.1.1 The Committee recommends that the PFMS should be configured to capture all payments made for equity and lending by 31st September, 2016.
4.3.2 STATEMENTS OF PUBLIC FINANCIAL ASSETS
4.3.2.1 Incomplete Accounting Records for Public Financial
Assets
Treasury did not keep proper records of accounts such as the ledger/register for Public Financial Assets that show the amounts disbursed from loan appropriations, net amounts outstanding, recoveries of loans and adjustments made during the year. There was no evidence suggesting that the Statement of Public Financial Assets was checked and verified in line with good international practice. The statements might have errors and/or omissions due to poor maintenance of records resulting in the misstatement of the Public Financial Assets and failure to effectively monitor the Account. The Accountant General advised the Committee that Treasury had challenges in locating the consolidated public financial assets register; however, they are currently compiling a new register from audited records. The Office of the Auditor General advised the Committee that the yearend return for 2015 showed some improvements.
4.3.2.1 As in the above observation, the Committee recommends that the PFMS should be configured by 31st September, 2016, to capture take-on balances, loans, investments, recoveries and adjustments to ensure proper accountability of public financial assets.
4.3.3 Opening take on balances of $549 128 116 which did not agree with closing balance of $554 128 116 as at December 31, 2012
The opening balance of $549 128 116 did not agree with the closing balance of $554 128 116. This anomaly has been observed over a number of years and the adjusted opening balance was not supported by any documentary evidence. It was observed that registers/ledgers of the Public Financial Assets were not being maintained in the Public Finance Management system.
Expenditure for lending and equity only appeared in the year the payments were made resulting in loss of accounting information. The Accountant General informed the Committee that Treasury does not directly pay debtors as payments are done through parent Ministries. It is therefore, the responsibility of each Accounting Officer to ensure that balances are reconciled to debtors.
4.3.3.1 The Committee recommends that all payments for equity and lending must, with immediate effect, be made through the system and line Ministries should be advised of payments done through IDBZ to enable them to record such loans.
4.3.3.2 Ministry of Finance should speed up the process of compiling a new consolidated register for public financial assets and ensures that it’s available by the end of 2016 and going forward, ensures that reconciliation by line Ministries are timeously carried out.
4.3.4 Net Variances of $324 670 068 between the balances
reflected on the returns from line Ministries and those from
Treasury rendering Statement on Public Financial Assets unreliable
There were variances between the balances reflected on the returns from Line Ministries and those from Treasury. The balances as per line Ministries was $619 666 596 against $294 996 528 on the Treasury return, resulting in a net difference of $324 670 068. In some instances the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development made direct payments to State Enterprises and documents pertaining to such transactions were not availed to line Ministries, resulting in differences between Treasury balances and those of line Ministries.
Consequently, line Ministries’ Appropriation Account expenditure figures on lending and equity totaled $62 308 950 whereas Treasury had total expenditure on lending and equity of $93 996 024. This resulted in a variance of $31 687 074.The Accountant General attributed the variance to NDF debtors that were erroneously included in the return ($43 764 888). There were further differences in equity valuations of $30 039 171; capital transfers of $231 051 316 and previous period adjustment of $19 814 693. The Audit Office would however verify the balances which were said to have caused the variances in the next audit.
4.3.4.1 Ministry of Finance should instruct line Ministries to ensure that all State Enterprises provide up to date returns to their parent Ministries by 31st January, 2017.
4.3.5 National Railways of Zimbabwe loans worth$5 025 000 written off without supporting documentation
An adjustment of $5 025 000 against loans issued to National
Railways of Zimbabwe was not supported by documentary evidence. There is risk that loans may be written-off without authority thereby prejudicing public resources. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the loan was not written off, but was transferred to National Development Fund (NDF) and as such, NDF had records pertaining to the loan in question. Again the Audit Office would verify the evidence during the audit of NDF.
4.3.6 Revenue Collection and Debt Recovery: Farmers’
World Debt worth $11 833 433
The Government paid a total of $11 833 443 to China Exim Bank in respect of a debt owed by a private company called the Farmers’ World after it failed to meet its obligations. The Auditor General failed to establish action taken by Treasury to recover the money from beneficiaries of the farm equipment, and the role of the Farmers’ World in recovering the outstanding amounts. Loan agreements and other supporting documents pertaining to the China Exim Bank and Farmers’ World loan facility were not availed for audit examination. Furthermore, the Committee noted under Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and
Irrigation Development that there was another loan advanced to Farmers
World in 2014 amounting to $11 566 00 which brings the total figure to
$23 million . Again there were no loan agreements relating to the debt.
In the absence of contractual documentation, there is risk that Government may fail to recover the loaned amounts thereby prejudicing public funds. It was said the loans were paid on behalf of beneficiaries of agricultural machinery, equipment and implements. The Accountant General advised the Committee that the loan was inherited from RBZ debt and payment to China Exim Bank was important for Government to retain the country’s credit worthiness with the Bank and ensure continued lines of credit. As part of efforts to recover the funds from Farmers’ World, the matter had been referred to Attorney General Office for guidance.
4.3.6.1 In the Committee’s view public resources cannot be used to meet obligations of a private nature and as such, Government must, with immediate effect, institute measures to recover the debt from either
Farmers’ World or from beneficiaries of farm machinery and implements. Treasury should by 31st September, 2016, explain fully to the Committee why Farmers World was advanced the latter loan reported in 2014 when it was failing to pay back the initial loan and also report on progress made towards recovery of the debt.
4.4 STATEMENT OF RECEIPTS AND DISBURSEMENTS
2013
4.4.1 Variances between line Ministries returns, Consolidated Treasury return and PFMS figures
Comparison of the balances disclosed in the Treasury Consolidated return and line Ministries returns showed significant differences as follows; take-on balance had variances of $149 627 463, collections differed by $15 776 749, payments to the Main Exchequer Account had
a difference of $15 557 026 and payments to ‘Other Accounts’ had a variance of $383 425 686. Furthermore, total Disbursements to the Main Exchequer Account by line Ministries differed with balances in the PFM system by $28 510 787.
The Statement of Receipts and Disbursements was rendered inaccurate and unreliable as a result of unreconciled variances. The Accountant General attributed failure by officers to produce accurate returns, to lack of training. He advised the Committee that accounting staff in his department were trained during the year 2015 and the variances were reconciled later on. The Audit Office would verify the evidence during the 2015 audits.
4.5 PROGRESS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF PRIOR
YEAR’S RECOMMENDATIONS
4.5.1 Discrepancies in opening and closing balances
The Statement of Receipts and Disbursements had an opening balance of $39 401 027 which was at variance with the audited closing balance of $28 010 429 as at December 31, 2011 resulting in a variance of $11 390 598. The Accountant General advised the Committee that the 2013 return was compiled and submitted for audit before the 2012 audited return was available, however the variances have been reconciled and the revised return has been submitted to the Audit. The
Audit will verify the accuracy of the reconciliations during audits.
4.5.2 Collection and disbursements balances
There were significant variances in revenue collection and disbursements balances between Ministries and Treasury figures. Treasury reported total collections of $3 886 629 810 while Ministries reported collections totaling $3 767 653 638 giving a variance of $118 976 163. Disbursements to the Exchequer Account had a difference of
$112 315 933 between the Ministries’ figure of $3 284 074 086 and the Treasury figure of $3 396 390 019.
The Accountant General informed the Committee that the variances have been reconciled and submitted to the Audit office. The
Public Service Labour and Social Welfare (Highlands National Training Centre) has devised a training programme with emphasis on Receipts and Disbursements return. The training will be rolled out to all Accounting staff when funding is secured.
4.6 NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT FUND 2013
4.6.1 Revenue Collection and Recovery: Variances in Accounts receivables figures
The Fund disclosed $103 390 032 as accounts receivables in the financial statements while the balance from confirmations from the projects being managed by IDBZ, Zimbabwe Economic Trade Revival
Facility (ZETREF) and Farmers’ World debt amounted to $221 205 034. This resulted in a variance of $117 815 002. There is a risk that public funds may not be properly accounted for and the financial statement may therefore be materially misstated. According to the Accountant General’s response the accounts receivable ledger for each debtor and the accounts receivables control were not being maintained. The variances were therefore, caused by the co-mingling of NDF and PSIP funds.
4.6.1.1 The Committee recommends that the Ministry, by 31st September, 2016, should put in place measures to avoid the co-mingling of the NDF and PSIP funds.
4.6.2 Investments worth $18 068 044 in Interfin Bank
currently under curatorship
The financial statements had an amount of $18 068 044 that was invested with Interfin bank meant for Zimbabwe Economic and trade Revival Fund (ZETREF). The bank was placed under curatorship and later, it was recommended for liquidation. The Fund did not submit a claim to the liquidator in respect of this investment to ensure that the Fund received some residual payments as the investment was not secured.
There is risk of loss of the whole investment as it was not secured and a claim was not lodged with the liquidator. The Accountant General in his response pointed out that the claim was lodged with the liquidator on June 4, 2015 after notification from the liquidator. NDF is expected to receive up to $2 million as resolved from the creditors’ meeting held by the liquidator.
The Committee expressed concern on whether due diligence was done by Government before such investment decisions were made.
Furthermore, though the collapsing of the bank was linked to some criminal activities by the Bank managers, it was disheartening to note that no prosecutions were effected in that regard and no attempt was made to recover public funds from individual mangers implicated in the matter.
4.6.3 Failure to reconcile funds invested in CABS worth $11
098 575 with the Bank figure reflected on the investment certificate The financial statement had an investment with CABS amounting to $11 098 575 while an investment certificate from the bank disclosed an investment of $10 717 500 giving a variance of $381 074. The implication of this finding is that financial statements may be misstated hence leading to wrong decisions being made on the basis of the figures. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the Fund had two investments of $10 million and $339 293 for which two separate deal notes were issued. The Bank only confirmed to the auditors the $10 million investment. The Ministry has communicated with the bank to interlink the investments portfolios. The Audit would verify the evidence during the next audit.
4.6.4 Non- Recovery of outstanding project loans
Out of a total of $70 460 000 loaned out to various institutions through the IDBZ Bank since year 2010, only an amount of $21 628 420 had been repaid at the time of audit. The Accountant General advised that the entities will require major policy reforms aimed at improving their income generating capacity. Notably, NRZ got $5 million, Civil
Aviation Authority of Zimbabwe $18,1 million; ZINWA $7million and
Registrar General’s Office $3,5 million and had not made a single contribution towards repayment. ZINARA got $10, 3 million and had paid back $1, 7 million. Going forward, every entity benefiting from the fiscus will be required to set up a sinking fund with clear indications on repayments.
4.6.4.1 Given that IDBZ Bank was not a going concern as an entity, the Committee failed to understand why Government was not disbanding it. The Committee recommends that Treasury should by 31st September, 2016, provide an explanation to the Committee why it was maintaining IDBZ given its perennial financial woes.
4.6.4.2 Furthermore, of the institutions highlighted, save for the Registrar General’s Office and ZINARA, all had going concern issues and government should with immediate effect, stop lending funds to non-performing entities.
4.6.4.2 Government should with immediate effect institute recoveries from entities such as ZINARA since it was collecting a lot of revenue.
4.6.5. Governance Issues- Non provision of information for the Zimbabwe Economic Trade Revival Facility (ZETREF)
Under the ZETREF facility, the Zimbabwe government contributed
$20 million while Afri-Exim Bank contributed $50 million. Interfin Bank was the implementing agent for the Zimbabwe Government while the Afri-Exim Bank was to administer the $50 million. Interfin Bank went bankrupt before disbursing the loans to beneficiaries and to date the money is yet to be recovered. The Fund managers failed to avail for audit crucial documents such as the facility agreement with implementing agencies, beneficiaries, bank statements and monitoring reports to enable the Auditor General to verify trade receivables and interest receivables, amounting to $12 699 810 and $566 819 respectively. Failure to avail information results in limitation of scope and financial statements may be materially misstated. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the agreements were between the participating banks and the respective beneficiaries. The banks have those agreements in place.
4.6.5.1 The Committee called for closer scrutiny of such facility as it has a potential to worsen the debt situation of the country. It therefore, recommends that the Minister of Finance should provide a full report on the status of the facility to the Committee by 31st September,
2016.
4.6.6 Mixing NDF and PSIP in one IDBZ Account Disbursements made by the Fund to the IDBZ for on-lending to various implementing agents were mixed with Treasury funds intended for PSIP projects in one IDBZ bank account. The Fund managers alleged that IDBZ bank could have assumed that the money came from the same source; the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. The mixing of the funds makes it difficult to account and report separately for the usage and repayments of those funds. The Accountant General pointed out that the Bank had been instructed to open separate accounts
for PSIP and NDF. Evidence would be verified in the next audit.
4.6.7 Outstanding Farmers’ World debt
Government of Zimbabwe assumed a Farmers’ World debt amounting to $1 142 407 (including Interest) which resulted from a payment of $970 000 loan borrowed from the China Exim Bank in March 2010. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe, the original guarantor, was unable to repay the debt. It was alleged that the Government later assumed the guarantor status. This was also another loan to Farmers World apart from the $23 million reported earlier on. The debt was again in respect of agricultural machinery, equipment and implements that were imported from China by Farmers’ World Company. The Ministry did not avail guarantor letters for audit examination and the debt was not included in the list of contingent liabilities.
There is risk that the Fund may fail to recover money paid on behalf of beneficiaries of agricultural machinery, equipment and implements from either Farmers’ World or beneficiaries. In his response the Accountant General advised the Committee that the National
Development Fund has handed over the debt to the Attorney General’s department for legal advice.
4.6.7.1 The Committee recommends that government should with
immediate effect, institute recoveries of the debt from either Farmers’ World or the beneficiaries of the agricultural machinery.
4.7 SENIOR OFFICERS HOUSING FUND 2014
4.7.1 Operating the Fund without Accounting Officer’s
Instructions and Administrative Procedure Manual
The Fund was operating without the Accounting Officer’s Instructions and administrative procedures manual. The absence of the manual makes it difficult to effectively administer the Fund and to implement controls that protect the resources of the Fund. The
Accountant General advised the Committee that the Senior Officers
Housing Fund Accounting Officer’s Instructions for the fund had since been signed and was now in place. The evidence would be verified in the next audit.
4.7.2 Variances of $248 960 between the opening balance of the accumulated Fund and the prior year’s closing balance
The opening Accumulated Fund figure of $8 825 343 disclosed in
the financial statement differed from audited closing balances of $8 576 383. This resulted in a variance of $248 960 that was not supported by documentary evidence. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the excel spread sheet were not up to date creating differences in the closing and opening balances. The Ministry has managed to post the entire monthly recoveries to individual debtors’ ledger accounts. Again, the evidence would be verified in the next audit.
4.7.3 Revenue Recovery and Collection: Senior officers received loans in excess of the $20 000 limit stipulated in the Inter
Ministerial Guideline
Seven senior officers received loans in excess of the maximum loan limit of $20 000 per disbursement as stipulated in the Inter
Ministerial Guidelines for the Senior Officers’ Housing Scheme (section 2.3). The excess payments totaled $120 000. Failure to observe the loan limit set in the Ministerial guidelines may result in unfair distribution of resources. Other senior officers may be deprived of the funding as resources will be limited. The Accountant General assured the
Committee that there was now adherence to the limit as specified in the Accounting Officers Instructions.
4.7.4 Bank withdrawals unaccounted for
The fund withdrew $1 437 852 from its bank account for disbursements to loan beneficiaries. However, only $1 413 500 was distributed to beneficiaries, leaving $24 352 unaccounted for. The
Fund’s financial resources may be used for purposes not in line with its objectives thereby prejudicing potential beneficiaries. The Accountant General indicated that the $24 352 in question was paid towards workshop expenses and travel and subsistence allowances. He pointed out that the funding organisation, UNDP, had preferred to deposit the workshop support funds into the Ministry account and the latter pay the hotel directly. As for the travel and subsistence allowances, Treasury had delayed releasing funds. He indicated that the Ministry had since reimbursed the Fund.
4.7.4.1 The Committee noted with concern that the Fund like other funds in line Ministries, had been prone to abuse, hence there was need for better control and supervision by accounting officers. The
Committee recommends that going forward, all those found to violate
Fund resources should be penalized in terms of section 91 of the Public Finance Management Act.
4.7.5 Records failing to differentiate debtors falling within one year and those over one year
The Auditor General could not verify the correctness of the debtors’ figures falling due within one year ($949 417) and those falling due after one year ($8 178 028) disclosed in the Fund’s financial statements. The figures could not be traced to the ledger and cashbook submitted for audit. There is risk that the Fund’s resources may not be properly accounted for and this could lead to loss of public resources. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the Ministry of Finance has engaged the Ministry of Local Government, Public works and National Housing, which currently manages the National Housing Fund and General Civil Services Housing Fund and the supplier of the software which is used. The supplier is agreeable to extend the license to the Ministry of Finance by January 01, 2016. Evidence would be verified in the next audit.
4.7.6 Inadequate security for housing loans disbursed to senior officers
Housing Loan borrowers did not surrender title deeds to the Fund as security for loans disbursed to them since the inception of the Fund in 2006. The Fund may suffer losses should the borrower default in making the loan repayment. The Accountant General informed the Committee that the requirement was not complied with, but they have since directed that this be complied with.
4.7.6.1 The Committee recommends that Ministry of Finance should examine the functions of the Fund from a governance point of view in that the Committee noted that it was inappropriate for the fund to be administered by potential beneficiaries. The Ministry should provide an explanation by 31st September, 2016.
4.8 STATE ENTERPRISES RESTRUCTURING AGENCY
(SERA) FUND 2014
4.8.1 Governance Issues: Failure to renew contract of employment
The contract of employment of one of the Fund’s employees expired on December 1, 2013. However, 10 months after the expiry of the contract, the contract had not been renewed although the employee was still rendering services and being paid. The Fund may incur unauthorised employment cost if employees are allowed to continue working without signing employment contracts. The Accountant General indicated that the matter has been regularised and all SERA staff has valid employment contracts.
4.8.1.1 The Committee however, questioned the relevance of
SERA considering that there was no progress in the reform of Parastatals regardless of its existence. It also raised questions as to whether there was value for money in coming up with such an entity as there were already Boards and Ministries exercising oversight function over Parastatals. The Ministry should therefore fully justify the continued existence of SERA by 31st September, 2016.
5.0 CONCLUSIONS
5.1 As the overall custodian of public funds, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development has a responsibility to conduct its affairs in accordance with the highest standards of public administration and public accounting. The errors and omissions highlighted in the Audit reports examined by the Public Accounts Committee for the period from 2009 to 2014 constitute a serious breakdown of overall control and management.
Your Committee was however encouraged by the extent to which the senior staff of the Ministry exhibited a determination to get to grips with the situation and to ensure that all the Auditor Generals observations were dealt with before the next Audit.
HON. CROSS: The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, in Zimbabwe controls the budget. Mr. Speaker Sir, can we have some quiet. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members, can we have order in
the House. Earlier on, I have actually requested for those Members who are so anxious to talk, can you do the honourable thing to move outside of the House and do your business, then after you have finished you are so much welcome to come back. Please can you give chance to the people who would want to debate?
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development in Zimbabwe controls a budget of about US$6b, that makes it ten times the size of Delta Corporation, ten times the size of T.M. Supermarkets, ten times the size of OK Bazaars Group, it makes it the single biggest financial institution in the country. Its assets exceed the combined assets of all the commercial banks in the country and therefore, the manner in which the accounts of this Ministry are conducted is of critical importance to us as a nation.
I want to highlight the following points raised by the Committee Chairperson in her report today. The first is this, that regarding the accumulated assets of the Government of Zimbabwe, up to 2009 - the Government only has a physical record of the assets. It has no idea what the value is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Hon. Members!
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir this does not involve small money; this represents many billions of dollars. I cannot understand how any organisation can operate because we are now some seven years after 2009 and we still do not have the value of the assets in our books in
- This is a matter which requires the urgent attention of Government. It is not a small matter, it is a major issue.
The next thing Mr. Speaker Sir, is that we have been informed time and time again, of the difficulties Government had in terms of controlling direct payments to creditors on behalf of line ministries. In the year we examined the US$190m was paid direct to creditors by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. We found discrepancies in the way in which these funds have been disbursed. We found discrepancies in the accounts of the line ministries concerned. We found payments unrecorded and we found substantial problems in line ministries as to how they account for this type of activity. We urged the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development not to do this but to insist on paying through the line ministry so that the funds can be properly accounted for.
I think they are trying to get on top of this but we still see these problems persisting today. When it comes to debt record and reconciliations, I just point out to the House that we approved to the Debt Assumption Bill in March, 2015, that amounted to US$1.3b with interest payments of another US$400m totaling US$1.7b altogether. Until now, the ministry has not been able to reconcile these debts and we still do not have a final record of the debts which are due by
Government under this account. This points to poor record keeping at the Reserve Bank, it points to a chaotic transfer of the records across to Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. It points to a lack of capacity in the ministry to deal with these kinds of issues.
Mr. Speaker, I am not dealing with millions of dollars, I am talking about billions and members of this House needs to understand what a thousand million dollars looks like. It is a substantial sum of money; it is an enormous sum of money in any country. In addition to this, in the
Auditor General’s Report, we found that the Accountant General’s Office in the past had been grossly understaffed, undermanned and under trained. The new Accountant General which has being appointed in the last six months is doing a fantastic job and I am deeply grateful to the people who were responsible for the recruitment of a really top official to occupy this post. His predecessor had to be dismissed for maladministration. This new person is in fact beginning to make a substantial impact on the accounting activities of the Ministry of Finance.
It points Mr. Speaker Sir, to the need to strengthen our civil service; we need to make sure that they have adequate staff for their responsibilities. We need to make sure that they are properly remunerated. I understand that the Accountant General receives a basic salary which is less than I earn as a Member of Parliament. Mr. Speaker, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. There is no doubt in my mind that our top civil servants, our key technicians are under remunerated and we need to do something about it. If we dismiss five solders, we could improve these conditions of service without an additional cost to us. I just point out that a lot of our expenditure is on unproductive labour, these are key positions.
Finally on training, you need to provide adequate training to the people you are employing in these key positions. When it comes to the misappropriation of funds, I have been in this Committee now for 8 years and time and time again we have seen misappropriation of funds not on a small scale but on a large scale. This misappropriation in the Ministry of Finance will involve millions of dollars. The staff was dismissed after the prosecuting authorities failed to gain a conviction in a court of law.
So, these individuals walked away from the Ministry of Finance scot free, they did not serve time; the only penalty that they incurred was that they lost their jobs. There was no recovery of funds and this point to the problem of prosecution of corruption; it is very difficult to prosecute corruption. We must find a way to recover funds and to make sure that the perpetrators are properly punished for what they are doing.
In respect to the Farmers World debt, this is a tip of the iceberg, it involves about US$12m. We were unable to discover who owns this company. How can they be given a substantial sum of money, this is a substantial sum of money, US$12m is more than half the budget of this National Assembly for twelve months. It is more than the total salary bill for Parliament and yet this loan was made to Farmers World and no attempt has been made either to identify who was involved or to recover the money from the company.
Mr. Speaker, any Chief Executive who did not follow up a debt of this magnitude would be fired instantly. In this case here Manungo, I think the Secretary for the Ministry of Finance, must be brought to account. He must explain why this matter has not been pursued. I say this is the tip of the iceberg more than US$200m of the Debt Assumption Bill was involved in this kind of activity and these funds have simply vanished.
Then there is a large discrepancy between line ministries and the
Ministry of Finance. When I read the Auditor’s report and I saw the amounts amounting to US$500m mari yakawanda, US$500m could not be reconciled. I asked the Accountant General, what on earth are you doing; if you cannot reconcile large sums like this? On the receipts on
US$3.8b, there was nearly US$200m which could not be accounted for.
This is no small money, this is big money, aggregate this, we are talking about US$2b – US$4b.
There is the extraordinary use of IDBZ, I do not know why the Ministry is using the Infrastructure Development Bank of Zimbabwe to handle very large disbursements of funds. There seems to be no proper accounting, the bank does not seem to have the expertise to deal with this and as a result our national debt may be understated. There is the question of the money we made available to Interfin, just three months before it went to liquidation.
Mr. Speaker, the directors of Interfin walked away from that bank with a US$100m of depositors’ funds and US$23m of that was our money. They have not been held accountable, there has not been any prosecution, and there is absolutely no follow up whatsoever, expect a liquidator who has attempted to recover the funds from the assets of the company. The directors have not been brought to account and I just ask, how much longer are we going to tolerate this kind of thing? If I was to steal a cow from a farmer in the rural areas, I would go to jail for 9 years. Here we have got board of directors who have stolen a $100 million of public funds and they have not been brought to account this is just impossible.
Finally, Mr. Speaker Sir, there is the issue of the Senior Officers Housing Fund Time and time again, I have pointed to this House that there over 100 of these funds being operated by Government. In each case they have a two page Constitution and the permanent secretary is the accounting officer. In this case here, the people who control this fund have in fact benefited from it. US$837 million went through these accounts last year. US$837 million ,that is more than 12% of the national budget. It is more than the budget for education.
Now, what do we do about this? First, I want to suggest to this House that we adopt this Report now. We adopt it unanimously, there should be no divisions over this particular Report. The second thing is we must insist of follow up, the Minister must receive this Report from Parliament together with our recommendations and he must be held to account in following up. Finally, I want to suggest the Public Accounts Committee in October this year, holds another meeting on this particular Report and ask Mr. Manungo and his senior staff to come and tell us what they done about cleaning up this mess. I thank you. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Members are urging to talk about artisanal miners. However, that point has been well ventilated, I stick to accountability. I need to support the mover of this Report and the seconder. I need to take you to the Constitution as to why and how we are listening and trying to adhere to the Report that has been tabled in the House by Hon. Mpariwa.
Section 9, talks to the issue of Good Governance, quoted verbatim
Mr. Speaker ‘The State must adopt and implement policies and legislation to develop efficiency, competence, accountability, transparency, personal integrity and financial probity in all institutions and agencies of Government at every level and in every public institution and in particular -(a) appointment to public offices must be made primarily on merit; (b) measures must be taken to expose, combat eradicate all forms of corruption and abuse of power by those holding political and public offices.’ Then (2) which is the final one on section 9 says ‘the State must ensure that all institutions and agencies of Government at every level, in particular Commissions and other bodies established by or under this Constitution, are provided with adequate resources and facilities to enable them to carry out their functions conscientiously, fairly, honestly and efficiently’. Mr. Speaker Sir.
As I debate on this motion, I want to say how and why we arrive at a Report such as the one we have heard which is riddled and pregnant with a lot of irregularities. It is the issue that she well ventilated and touched on that borders on issues to do with appointment of people in positions of authority that are of no financial integrity. I will reiterate the point that we need as Parliament to legislate in the Constitution the appointment of boards and public officers Mr. Speaker Sir, that we get to know that it is the right people that are in positions of authority - that we do not have recurrence and continued recurrence of funds misappropriated. As we speak Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order. The owner of the following vehicle AAV 4597 could you please go and remove the vehicle because it is blocking other vehicles.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to take you closer to home, in particular Chegutu West, in the Town Council of Chegutu. One time when I was addressing mourners I asked the councilors and the council officials to look beyond just the human face the nice body and such like when they are appointed or when they recruit the particular people that are responsible for handling finances. I asked them to look at the history of somebody, not to just to look at the facial features and the long hair, short hair, good ears, big ears and big tummy. They went against all that advise and appointed one Mhaka who was at NOCZIM who once misappropriated funds there, they got him to cater for funds at Chegutu Town Council.
In no time we hear there has been misappropriation of funds in a place where there is barely any services that are rendered for what the residents are paying for. You will find that what is legislated or what is agreed upon is a charge of $10.00 for water. You will find that the billing that goes to the residents is for $20.00. Even after this irregular billing, you will find that the municipality goes after residents with summons in order to incarcerate them and arrest them, based on a bill that is unfounded. In no time, we then find that the police and the law enforcement agencies are after this person that the council went against all credible advice to put in a position of authority - in particular in a financial position, at the helm of Chegutu Municipality.
How do we get to that? We have got an entity such as CMED which Hon. Mpariwa also touched on. It is operating as we speak, on auto pilot. How did it get there? One time we were talking about a $3 million fuel issue that was at CMED, I will not touch on that. Arising from that, you then get a whole Loss Control Officer being relieved of his duties at CMED because the perpetrator of the loss of the US$ 3 million was the person who was leading CMED, that was the boss to this manager who is the Loss Control Officer. Coupled with that Mr.
Speaker Sir, your Committee brought to it this Loss Control Officer and also called the Director of Finance to come before the Committee. Mr. Speaker Sir, as I speak today, those two people were thrown out of their place of employment. How do we have an entity such as CMED valued as it is, in large sums, operating without a Loss Control Officer or a Financial Director? We come here and wait for audit results; obviously what is going to come out is an audit result which is riddled with a lot of irregularities.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will leave CMED now. I will move on to places such as Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development because the person before you is your Committee Chairperson to the Portfolio
Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development. We have 10 Provinces Mr. Speaker Sir, which have provincial road engineers working on an acting capacity. How can you have a provincial road engineer who is working on an acting capacity and is supposed to look after magnitudes of bills of US dollars? You want them to make far reaching and permanent decisions, but you have them in semi-permanent positions of acting capacity yet you expect an audit which reflects a flawless financial system. We cannot have that Mr. Speaker Sir.
As Hon. Mpariwa presented the report, she touched on a loan of US$5million that was given to NRZ. Mr. Speaker Sir, the department or parastatal that we are talking about is endowed with ubiquitous minerals and claims, both within this country and outside. They inherited these minerals from Rhodes and Rhodesia. I am talking about what is available Mr. Speaker Sir. What is left is optimal excavation, resource mobilisation and extraction of these minerals so that departments and parastatals like NRZ can be resuscitated, restructured so that they operate optimally without asking for US$5million. It sounds meager as compared to what NRZ owns. Yes, it still needs to be accounted for but it is my fervent prayer that departments that are endowed with all these resources should be engaged in resource extraction so that they can capitalise these departments primarily and then capitalise Zimbabwe in general in a secondary way.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue to do with ownership of resources also resides with the local authorities. The local authorities that we were talking about yesterday and that I alluded to earlier are endowed with a lot of resources. Even before they go and get loans from Government and other sectors, they should look within themselves because they are empowered and they have got the power, even to enrich other sectors. They have land within their locality which is embedded with mineral wealth, which they should utilise optimally. In the utilisation and extraction of those minerals, they should engage those locals that are in those areas.
What comes to mind immediately, without any shadow of doubt, are artisanal miners Mr. Speaker Sir – [Laughter.] – they are the ones that are holding the economy, this is the new normal…
Hon. Nduna having been speaking to the gallery.
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order, address
the Chair Hon. Member.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the protection Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker Sir, not looking at you does not mean I am not addressing you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Address the Chair.
HON. NDUNA: Sometimes I get carried away Mr. Speaker Sir. THE ACTING SPEAKER: You should not.
HON. NDUNA: I want to look and see if some artisanal miners are also in this House Mr. Speaker Sir. However, I have seen that it is the proponents of artisanal mining that are in this House. Once again, I want to thank you for allowing your Committee on Public Finance to bring out a very important motion and report that has ventilated a lot of key issues that we should take on board. I immensely want to say, their recommendations are very key if we can take them on board for the good governance and order of the people of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I had prepared a very elaborate presentation in anticipation of a very heated debate.
However, what I have discovered is that the report is very good. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Public Accounts has done justice to her presentation and the recommendations are selfexplanatory. I shall not belabour this House by getting into detail.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Public Accounts Committee is one of the key Committees of this House. Allow me Mr. Speaker to quote very briefly from the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible talks about dishonesty. If you read Genesis 27, Verses 1 to 29; “What if my father touches me, he will see that I am trying to trick him and then he will curse me instead of blessing me” – [AN HON. MEMBER: I receive.] – How we react to a moral dilemma often exposes our real motives. I will leave that Mr.
Speaker and I will explain why I have quoted that verse – [AN HON. MEMBER: Go deeper papa.] – When you speak of the Holy Bible and people make fun of it, it is very unfortunate. Mr. Speaker Sir, I will leave this aside and go on to my presentation.
The Auditor-General’s Office is a creation of the Constitution of
Zimbabwe and it is accountable to Parliament. The Auditor-General sits in the Public Accounts Committee as a technical person to give technical advice. Year-in-year-out, the Auditor-General produces this book – [Hon. Maridadi shows out the Auditor-General’s Annual Report Book] – and gives us recommendations. However, the recommendations by the Auditor-General have never been implemented. I think one very refreshing thing about what is happening in the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development now is that, they have engaged a very progressive Accountant-General. A very progressive man who has effected a lot of changes and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is beginning to look well because of the gentleman they engaged.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me briefly go on to talk about four key pillars of this Government. In brief, I will talk about local authorities, stateowned enterprises, Government and the private sector. There is a narrative report that was referred to by Hon. Minister Kasukuwere yesterday and the day before on local authorities. It makes very sad reading. What is happening in our local authorities makes very sad reading, needless to say that local authorities are at the core face of
Government service delivery. People communicate with Government through local authorities and state enterprises.
I will then go to State owned enterprises. In Zimbabwe, we have more than 85 parastatals or State owned enterprises. Not one of them has made a profit in the last 10 years. State owned enterprises are supposed to participate in business at a profit and they are supposed to declare dividend to Government. Not one of them has declared a dividend to Government since 2000 and Mr. Speaker, that is a cause for concern. What then happens is that in order for State enterprises to be kept afloat, they go back to Government for bail out. I am talking of the NRZ. The NRZ recently got a loan of US$5 million. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Transport, Hon. Nduna here, spoke about how that money has gone down the drain because NRZ is not in a position to be able to utilise that money, make a profit and pay back to
Government.
I will talk about ZUPCO. Mr. Speaker if you want to see the development or otherwise of a country, you see it by the type of public transport that is available in that country. Zimbabwe’s soul public transporter in urban areas was ZUPCO. ZUPCO is an architect of public transport from the 1960s and it existed until the 80s. ZUPCO, Mr. Speaker, to all intents and purposes is dead. What worries me about the death of ZUPCO, Mr. Speaker, is that there was a lady presiding over ZUPCO as Chairperson for the past 25 years. Mr. Speaker, the same lady has been appointed substantive Chairperson of Air Zimbabwe. What is it that she has done at ZUPCO that we like so much that she must go and do at Air Zimbabwe? I will leave that.
I will talk about Government departments. Mr. Speaker, I went through this audit report painstakingly and I came up with this document here, which I can make available to Members of Parliament. I want to go through it Ministry by Ministry. Mr. Speaker, there is not a Ministry where there is an accounting officer who has not been caught by the
Auditor General off side. Ministry of Industry and Commerce issued loans without signing loan agreements. ZISCO Steel - US$11 633 012 respectively. Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation
Development’s loan agreement to Farmers World, debt for 2014, US$11566000 and in 2013, US$11 833 000.
I want to put the issue of Farmers World into perspective. As Government or as Parliament, we were not able to know who the owners of Farmers World are. So, what has happened, Mr. Speaker, is that there is a group of people that call themselves Farmer’s World. They have borrowed money from China Bank, US$11 million. They have not been able to give that money back to the bank and our Government has paid that loan on behalf of farmers World to the tune of US$11 556 000. What it means is that this is tax payers money which has been used to liquidate a debt of private citizens, private people, to the tune of US$11 million.
Mr. Speaker, needless to say what US$11 million could do for nurses that are not going to receive their salary at the end of this month; needless to say what US$5 million would do for this Parliament which is unable to go for outreach programmes because of lack of resources. I will leave that aside. I will continue with the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development and let me talk of big sums of money only. Absence of source documents to substantiate the aggregate variance in revenue amounting to US$3 million. What it means is that there is US$3 million missing from the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development which cannot be accounted for.
I will go to another large sum. Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. They made payments of US$11 million, but the US$11 million was not supported by documents. So US$11 million was given by the Ministry, but there were no documents
to support it.
Mr. Speaker, I could go on and on. What is important at this juncture is to go to the recommendations of the Portfolio Committee on Public Accounts and say, I would recommend two extra things. In other jurisdictions like in Kenya and in Uganda, people from the Prosecutor General’s office sit in the Public Accounts Committee and officers from fraud squad also sit in the Public Accounts Committee. When issues of potential fraud are raised, there is no need to go to the police and make a report because the police will then start investigating straight away.
What happens in our case is that when you have a report like the one that I have presented here, somebody must then go to the ZRP and make a report and then action will follow, but in other jurisdictions, you do not have to make a report. Straight away, there are police officers that sit on that Committee and as soon as the Public Committees are done analysing the report of the Auditor General, action is taken. The Ministry of Home Affairs comes in and the Zimbabwe Anti Corruption Commission comes in.
The other issue I want to talk about is about banks like Interfin. Interfin Bank was used by this Government as a conduit to do financial transactions on behalf of Government. A lot of money was put into Interfin Bank and Interfin Bank was declared technically solvent. What it means is that, Government money was swallowed in Interfin Bank.
The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development is the regulator of financial institutions in Zimbabwe. How did they put money into a bank which would collapse in three months time? I do not understand it.
That is one aspect.
The second aspect is that when banks collapse, they are put under judicial management. People lose their money, their deposits. People lose houses, but if you look, if you see the sponsors of that bank, the share holders of that bank, they still have their houses, they still have their cars and so on. Mr. Speaker, this is very worrying. What it means is that I could get three Members of Parliament here, we form our bank, we comply with the requirements of the Reserve Bank. We form our bank, we mob deposits from people out there and five years later, the bank goes under. We have US$200 million, we share it amongst ourselves and people have lost their money. What it means is that the Reserve Bank, as the controller of the financial institutions is not doing a very good job.
The other issue is of the Infrastructure Development bank of
Zimbabwe. Mr. Speaker, the Infrastructure Development Bank of Zimbabwe (IDBZ) is technically insolvent as we speak. For the life of me, Government continues to trade using IDBZ. IDBZ is technically solvent, but Government continues to put millions and millions of dollars for financial transactions through this bank which Government knows is technically solvent. I do not know what Government is trying to achieve. This is money from the people that Government should look
after.
Mr. Speaker, without further ado, I think my recommendation is that, let us adopt the report by the Portfolio Committee on Public Accounts and let us adopt the recommendations which have timelines for June, July and September and on that note Mr. Speaker Sir, I rest my case. I thank you.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 19th July, 2016.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE seconded by HON.
MANGAMI, the House adjourned at Twenty Three Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 19th July, 2016.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 29th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
RASING OF POINTS OF ORDER AND MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to remind Hon.
Members that each time they rise on a point of order or on a matter of privilege, they should cite the relevant Standing Order and the provisions and sections of the Privileges, Immunities and Powers of Parliament Act [Chapter 2:08]. This will assist the Chair in making a
ruling.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, before we go to the
point of order, I am asking for Notices of Motions.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Sorry, thank you Madam Speaker, I will
raise it after.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER NO. 51
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Madam Speaker, I move that provisions of Standing Order
No. 51, regarding the automatic adjournment of the House at Five Minutes to Seven O’clock p.m. and...
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. GONESE: I will cite the Standing Order I am referring to.
It is in terms of Standing Order No. 62.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member...
HON. GONESE: It is a very valid order...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not say it is not valid.
HON. GONESE: I want to read the provisions to you - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: The provisions of Standing Order No. 62 stipulate that on a Wednesday, private members’ business takes precedence. I have noticed that on the Order Paper, there is a Notice of Motion. I listened to the Minister, he is already moving that Notice of
Motion which is on the Order Paper which is in violation of Standing
Order No. 62. If you can allow me to read the provisions of that
Standing Order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members on my right,
could you please wait so that we understand each other here – [HON.
MEMBERS ON THE LEFT: Yes.] – Even you, you are also making a
lot of noise.
HON. GONESE: Before I go to the substantive matter...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you put a
point of order, before the Minister had finished..
HON. GONESE: The point of order relates to that Notice of Motion, it is not properly before this House at this point in time. That is the reason why I am...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am also going along with
Standing Order No. 61 (g) where motions, can you hear me?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I can hear you very loud and clearly.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Where motions by a Vice
President or a Minister, relating to the business of the House take precedence.
HON. GONESE: It does not apply here. If you can allow me, we have to read them in conjunction – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, I am not just relying on
Standing Order No. 62, I am relying on the whole gamut of the Standing Orders. The point which is very clear is that Standing Order No. 62, stipulates in ambiguous language that subject to the provisions of Sub
Order 2, Government Business must take precedence on Tuesdays and
Thursdays. Then it goes further to say, ‘unless the House has by resolution otherwise determined on Wednesdays, the routine of business shall be as follows’:- In order of precedence
- ‘Questions
- Notices of Motions standing in the name of private members
- Private members’ Orders of the Day,
- Other notices of Motions and Orders of the Day’. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
I have not finished, if you can allow me you can just be patient.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not talking.
HON. GONESE: Because I am very clear of where I am going. THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am listening.
HON. GONESE: In my respectful submission, the motion which the Hon. Minister has placed on the Order Paper, is under other notices of Motions and Orders of the Day. The Standing Order which you have referred to does not relate to the Order of the Business.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It does Honourable Member.
HON. GONESE: If you can just allow me to articulate the point.
Motions by Vice Presidents or Ministers relating to the Business of the House, that motion in my view is misplaced and I will also mention that this motion – it was not supposed to be on the Order Paper and I will explain why. I downloaded the Hansard of yesterday and I am going to
cite it.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We do not want to get into the
Hansard again because we will not finish.
HON. GONESE: It is important because that is how that notice was smuggled. The Minister specifically stated that the reason why he was adjourning the debate, Honourable Zindi was on the floor and she was still proceeding with her report and the Hon. Minister said no, we want to take into account the submissions which are coming from the Portfolio Committee and everyone thought that we were going to adjourn the House. In bad faith and with malice forethought, the Honourable Minister then stood up to give notice and we objected to the giving of that notice. That is what transpired and I have the Hansard which I can cite. I have downloaded it from the internet – [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - The record will bear me out.
That is what the Minister did.
There was an objection which Madam Speaker which we ignored. Unfortunately, Notices of Motions are not put on the Hansard but there were vigorous objections when that transpired. That is the point Madam Speaker. This motion is not properly before us. Under normal circumstances, in terms of Standing Order No. 61, there is an order of debate there.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes there is an order of
debate, can we go along with that.
HON. GONESE: Let me just read it out. Under normal circumstances, I want to read it out so that there is no doubt as to what the provisions stipulate. “Unless these Standing Orders otherwise permit
the daily routine of business must be as follows:
- Prayers;
- Swearing in of new Members;
- Announcement by the Speaker;
- Messages from the President;
- Giving of Notices of Motions.
Yesterday that Notice of Motion should have come at the beginning under normal circumstances.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we talk of yesterday
when it is today.
HON. GONESE: Yes because it relates to what is supposed to happen today. Then we have Requests for Leave, Take Note Motions, Questions and so on and then the Order Paper. We did all that without that notice being given. I am aware that there is a provision which allows a Minister or Vice President to bring a Notice of Motion in between other Orders of the Day – I am aware of that provision. However, I am saying that this is not applicable for the reasons which I gave earlier that first and foremost, the reason why the Minister adjourned the debate was that he wanted time, actually to quote him he
“wanted to chew the cud”.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member can you please
take your seat.
HON. GONESE: No I have not finished and you cannot interrupt me. Why are you interrupting me? Yesterday it happened. The other day it happened and then you made a ruling when I had not completed my submissions.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I know you do not finish.
HON. GONESE: The only reason why you are saying so is because you are interrupting me. I am simply saying when we are in this august House, we must behave honourably and not mislead each other. If the Honourable Minister was genuine in adjourning the debate, then we should not have done anything to deal with this Bill because in his own words, he wants time to consider the submissions which came from the Portfolio Committee. There is nothing which is against the spirit of what he said himself.
This particular motion is to deal with automatic adjournment. It is not to deal directly – you must look at what is the import of something, the import of this motion is not to deal with the business of the day but rather to deal with suspension of the Standing Orders relating to automatic adjournment. This can come later at 6:00 p.m. because at 6:00
p.m that is when Government business will take precedence and I have got the backing of our Standing Orders which is our Bible in this august
House which strictly says that “any other” and this motion falls under any other.
Private Members’ Motions actually take precedence over this particular motion and this is a motion for which notice was irregularly given yesterday. Accepting for one moment that the notice was validly given, which I am not accepting because I believe that it was actually smuggled – but even if we were to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this notice was properly given, the point still remains that Notice of Motion cannot be at the beginning because it does not take precedence today. It falls under the category of any other notices. It comes after Questions without Notice then Questions with Notice then Private Members’ Notices of Motions and so on. It is only at 6:00p.m. that the Standing Orders and I am going to read it because it is important.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think you are now through.
Would you please take your seat?
HON. GONESE: I have not finished speaking.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: When are you going to finish
speaking?
HON. GONESE: Last time you interrupted me and promised a ruling which you never gave. Last time you interrupted me and said we have understood your point. I stood down and thereafter you never gave a ruling and instead, a meeting was held nicodemously. So, today allow me to finish because last time I acceded to your request in good faith. He said we have understood your point, point of administration and we are going to look into it and I will make a ruling, which you never did. So I have no guarantee that today you are acting in good faith.
The proviso – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I am advised Madam Speaker that Honourable Chamisa has spoken to the Honourable Minister, we can stand this down and then we go to question time. If that is the case, I have no problem with that – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- On the understanding of
Honourable Chamisa, I will briefly make way for – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, Hon. Gonese
no, we cannot have that. No! Hon. Minister please, can you take your seat. Hon. Gonese, if there is something, I have to give you... Hon.
Gonese.
HON. GONESE: Please, I was just reading the proviso – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. After the
consultations that we have had, I am no longer proceeding with the point of order. However, when the Minister has moved his motion, I have got a right to debate that motion and I am going to debate the motion.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER NUMBER 51
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I move that the provisions of
Standing Order Number 51, regarding the automatic adjournment of the
House at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock and Twenty Minutes past One o’clock on a Friday be suspended in respect of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill, (H.B.1, 2016).
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker that is not the procedure. You
ask for debate and that is what I have been waiting for.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is there any debate?
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I know
with the emotions, this can happen. It is understandable. I am objecting to the motion by the Hon. Minister on substantive grounds and I am going to outline those grounds. First and foremost, the import or the effect of the suspension of the Standing Orders is clear to everyone. It is because the Hon. Minister wants to fast track this Bill so that we conclude it.
I am aware because yesterday on the ZTV news, there was an announcement by His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe that
Senate has been recalled for tomorrow. That is very presumptuous Madam Speaker. I do not know the basis of assuming that we would have concluded deliberations on this Bill. The announcement was clear that the Senate has been recalled to debate the Local Government Amendment Bill. How do they know that this august House would have passed the Bill?
We are not agreeable because we are the Legislature; we are the representatives of the people of this country and this business of Bills passing through this august House at the supersonic speed of an unidentified flying object is not acceptable. This august House is supposed to make laws. We are supposed to pass laws and not for laws to pass through Parliament. That is the important point Madam Speaker on which I vigorously and strenuously oppose to the suspension.
Madam Speaker, we have got Hon. Members and one of them is seated in this august House, Hon. Chirisa. She has got proposed amendments to this Bill. In terms of the Standing Orders, those proposed amendments cannot be placed on the Order Paper before the conclusion of the Second Reading. We want Hon. Members to acquaint themselves with the proposed amendments from Hon. Chirisa. Hon.
Chirisa, can I have those amendments to show that they are genuine.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. Hon. Gonese, would you please …
HON. GONESE: I am giving my reasons. I am talking about the amendments. These are the amendments that she wants to move. THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese!
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, I have not finished my submissions. Why do you not allow me to finish? I am just citing these amendments as the reason why I am objecting. These are substantive amendments and I am citing them so that you all know that they are substantive amendments which Hon. Members are entitled to have sight of at the time when we go to the Committee Stage. So, if we are going to suspend automatic adjournment, it means that today after the Second Reading, we proceed to the Committee Stage when Hon. Members have not been given an opportunity to see these amendments, deliberate on them and use their wisdom or otherwise to decide whether they are in agreement with those proposed amendments.
For that reason Madam Speaker, I would want to reiterate. Let us not suspend automatic adjournment. Let us conclude our Second Reading today, have these amendments placed on the Order Paper and we go to the Committee Stage tomorrow. The recalling of the Senate was done prematurely. It was presumptuous; it is wrong and is not acceptable. Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MAJOME: I thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity to debate the point of order in terms of suspending automatic adjournment. I wish to lend my voice to the opposition to suspend the Standing Rules and Orders for two reasons. Madam Speaker, the reason why there is so much commotion in this House actually demonstrates the very grave importance of the matter at hand. This is a Bill that has raised emotions not only in this august House but from the length and breadth of this country once this Bill was tabled.
Madam Speaker, it is no secret that yesterday when the Hon. Minister who happens to be my totem brother was asked and rightly so to substantiate his reasons for wanting to fast track the Bill.
Unfortunately, in his whole address, it was not possible to salvage any single code and reason why this Bill should be fast tracked. If the reason is that because the Senate has been called, clearly if this august House is not yet done with this Bill and has not addressed its mind to it, then clearly the reason that the Senate is waiting cannot be the reason why this must be rushed.
Madam Speaker, each and every member in this august House is here for a reason. Therefore, Hon. Chirisa has a democratic and constitutional right to table amendments before this august House. It is in the interests of each and every member of this august House to actually listen to, see, read and pay attention to the proposed amendments that Hon. Chirisa is wishing to propose. If I may say so, it is also in the interest of the Hon. Minister. In fact, the Hon. Minister should actually be grateful to the efforts and the interests of Hon. Members like Hon. Chirisa who are indeed taking his role seriously. We have gone to the trouble of even proposing draft amendments.
Madam Speaker, if the leave that the Hon. Minister seeks is granted, we will indeed have shot ourselves in the foot. This august House will have deprived itself of an opportunity of seriously and truly considering possible changes to a Bill that will improve the lives of the people of Zimbabwe. Madam Speaker it is no secret that even as we speak now we have a crisis in terms of even the payment civil service wages. Matters of local governance are matters of the economy and revenue. If we gave ourselves an opportunity as Members of this august
House to seriously take our time to improve the state of local
governance in this country, we would actually not be in a position that we are now.
Madam Speaker, local government is an area that is replete with possibility of revenue generation that is troubling our nation. We can solve the problems eventually of the tax, of not being there revenue to pay civil servants and even Members of Parliament who are here, including you Hon. Madam Speaker, you are not going to have your monthly salary because we have dire problems with the economy of this country.
Madam Speaker, local government issues; the local government Bill and local government legislation are a grand opportunity for us as legislators to seriously construct so that we can increase the revenue making mechanism. So, the time that is required Madam Speaker is not the kind of time that my Hon. Minister who is my hon. brother seeks to postpone.
Also, there are other issues that Hon. Members have that want answers from Hon. Ministers. Already from the composition of the front bench of the Government right now, it appears that there has been a presumptuous decision that Hon. Ministers are not going to attend the
House because questions are not going to be answered today because the Hon. Minister wants to present the Bill. Hon. Madam Speaker, that is an insult to the people in this country. There are questions around the bond notes and the civil service salaries and so on. So, to stop all other business of Government so that we fast track an ill conceived and rushed Bill that does not address the issues that we require; that would not address the bread and butter issues of our people. Madam Speaker, for those reasons, I also oppose that. Thank you.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam Speaker, I rise again as I rose
yesterday. Is this august House, helping the situation by putting in legislative law with proper thought, understanding, consultation out there to the public when we continue to trash the Constitutional requirements, even the Standing Orders and Rules requirements in this august House?
Madam Speaker, you are the one who controls this House. Honestly to allow suspensions of normal business of Parliament for the sake of fast-tracking a Bill when the economy of the country is not performing well, I believe that we are not doing this in a proper way, all of us, I am not excluding myself. I do not understand what is special about the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing and this particular Bill when we have not put in laws for the whole nation when the laws which should be aligned with the
Constitution need to be brought to this Parliament. We have spent three years in this Parliament and suddenly we see urgency.
Today I read the news that the same Mayor was acquitted by the court and was immediately arrested. So, people are going to be given false charges because you want people out of certain offices. We cannot legislate for a person, let us legislate for the country. I stand here to say we are Zimbabweans, we are brothers and sisters – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – we cannot come here to fight for one thing, one thing, let us fight to bring this country to normalcy! We are not able to pay people this month, we are going to pay transport fares, are we going to ask Government to get out of office because we have failed to pay people?
Let us not play games.
Madam Speaker, I plead with the opposite side to say let us be legislators, let us be nationalists – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I know that a number of these people who are nationalists in mind have conceded that they are being forced because they are afraid of being fired – [HON. MEMBERS: Aaah!] – In your conscience, you know that, do not just say aaah. Madam Speaker, I plead with you, let us not fast track this Bill. I do not know what remedy we are going to put by rushing a Bill which I told you yesterday that I need to go through it. I need an advice, I do not have an office. Also I have to look for a lawyer, my lawyer was busy, he needs to tell me what to correct and I still have not managed to do it. Why are we fast-tracking the Bill?
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to
thank all the Hon. Members who are in this House. What is happening now is that the Minister is asking us to fast track this law, he is prepared to come here on Saturday and Sunday because he wants to fast track the Bill. My problem is that the Minister is coming to make the law but he is now changing the Constitution. We are now going to the fourth year of our term, and he is saying we need to amend the Constitution and fast track to suit what he wants us to do.
Madam Speaker, as far as I am concerned, representing the people of Musikavanhu, I am saying Hon. Minister, please follow the peoples wishes. We are not happy with what is happening, it is displeasing that you continue suspending business. We know that in our culture, if you do something which is taboo at a funeral, that thing will continue, you end up suspending people in appropriate places like at the buses –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – you suspend councilors and you continue doing that. Seeing what is now happening, you are even suspending the laws which make Parliament work properly. At times you are suspending and yet you do not have the powers to do that and I am
afraid one of these days you are going to suspend His Excellency President Mugabe.
Madam Speaker, I am pleading with you, let us not talk of suspension and suspension, but let us follow the Constitution and the laws.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, address the
Chair please.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: My apologies Hon. Speaker. Madam
Speaker, I am not going to continue because I want my fellow Members to make their contribution but my main point of standing up and contributing is that we do not want the Minister to fast track this law. We need to take it up step by step. Unfortunately, the Senate has been recalled so that this law is fast tracked but we are not a rubber stamping organisation, we are law makers. My main fear is that my colleagues on the other side are supporting and working according to this because they have been independent - we do not know, it is up to them.
However, I am only urging my fellow members that we are oppressed now but in 2018, please select properly and set your leadership. I will conclude by saying that we have these members listening to my contribution and I would like to thank the Minister because whenever you are making the laws, please avoid fast tracking so that all the things fall in line. At the end of it all, we will be able to conclude and adopt this Bill.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are just debating on the suspension of order… -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise in support of the motion moved by the Minister and that I have been listening to the arguments by Hon. Members. If we are to deliberate about the recalling of the Senate which is not part of this august House, we have to focus –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order! In terms of Standing
Order 68 (d), well I can read to you so that I can help Members of Parliament who cannot read –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections]-
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Madam Speaker, he must withdraw his statement. I cannot sit down kana asina ku withdrawer kuti the Hon. Members cannot read, he must withdraw that statement. We are in this august House because we can read and understand, he is dhereraring me. For him to come here and utter such utterances is unacceptable, he must withdraw.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I do not have
such voice to make you keep quiet. If you keep quiet yourselves, he will sit down. You cannot make him to sit down before I tell him to sit down.
Hon. Holder, you will come up after him –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections]- Hon. Members, I am the Presiding Officer here, you cannot make him sit down…
Hon. Holder having left his seat going towards Hon. Chamisa –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
Commotion in the House –[AN HON. MEMBER: We cannot
stand this public insult, saying that we are ignorant people. It is coming out live on the national television whilst he is saying that we are uneducated. So he should withdraw his statement]- -[AN HON. MEMBER: We were voted in, we are people who are educated and we cannot be abused by people who are stealing money from councils. They are changing clothes because they have enough money because they are stealing and abusing funds from councils. Please do no abuse us, let us do business. When you came, you were talking about people who were fired, who are these people who were fired and you are now playing to the gallery because there is television coverage. Where does non-education come in?
Hon. Chinotimba having left his chair to approach the Hon.
Deputy Speaker – [OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Chami! Chami!]- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- -[AN HON. MEMBER:
Tisu tirikutonga, hatigare pasi, maguta kunyarwa imi]-
[Commotion and pandemonium in the House]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order we are now
proceeding. We start by Hon. Chamisa withdrawing what he said. -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, with all due respect; let me start by asking you to lay charges against Hon. Holder. - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Madam Speaker we understand that you gave me the opportunity to make my contribution. According to the Standing Orders, we are told that when a member is contributing, the others should be given a chance to make their contribution and I am saying ...
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let us start by looking at
what really caused all this commotion. When you were making your contribution, you said some of these members are not learned and that led to the commotion. So, let us go step by step. The first step is for you to start by withdrawing your statement? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Chamisa, you will be given the chance to make all the contributions you want.
HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, I am not sure as to what I should withdraw.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You said that you want to
teach others.
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, I would like to get into constructive criticism. What statement should I withdraw?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I am
addressing and informing you that we should be following procedures in this House because we are simply wasting time. We need to give each other time to make contributions and from there, we will check on our progress. Hon. Chamisa, you were making your explanations so that you may educate your fellow legislators who are uneducated. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order, order please! Let us have order please!
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, I was not quoted properly
and I will repeat that if you are saying it is unparliamentary, I will withdraw. I responded to an Hon. Member who had asked a question and the Hon. Member said he is not illiterate but he is literate. I then said, if you are illiterate I will read for you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa, you were
debating and there was no chance for you to respond to any question. Therefore, I am pleading with you that you withdraw your statement for the sake of progress. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, we may waste time and I understand the Standing Rules and Orders in Annexure (b), that is where all the offences which are committed in this House are explained. Therefore, I am not going to accept any charges laid against me because it is unfounded. When I said there are some people who are illiterate, if you do not agree with me, I bet you that we have some people who cannot even write their names.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: He is saying there are some
people who cannot read and write and that is all we are asking you to withdraw that statement which you made. Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Chamisa, Hon. Members felt insulted by you saying there are some who cannot read. So please just withdraw. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, what am I withdrawing?
Am I withdrawing their despondency or that there are people who are
illiterate?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chamisa please! Hon.
Gonese, I had recognised Hon. Chamisa. I did not recognise you.
HON. GONESE: I am aware of that Madam Speaker but I am
going to …..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I have not
recognised you please with due respect. I was talking to Hon. Chamisa.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I wanted to help.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, please I had
not recognised you.
*HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, the way I understood this
issue is that we cannot stop Parliament because of the financial situation – we have no money in the country and the banks do not have any cash. Those are the issues that we should be talking about here. Those are issues that we need to address. This one pertaining to what I said, my request is that before you make your ruling, you go back to the recording and listen to what I said. You will realise that I was not in violation of any Standing Order. You have the right to tell me that I am at fault after listening to it and I will withdraw if I am wrong.
Hon. Holder, by knowing his offence actually decided to leave the
House.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, let me give
a ruling here on the two issues - [HON. MEMBERS: Which issues?]- like what you are saying that Holder did something that I did not see – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Gonese, I heard everything which was said.
HON. GONESE: No, you have not heard it officially. In terms of
68(d), I have not made any submission..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: How can you say that - Hon.
Chamisa was saying that when he was debating..
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, I want it on record.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please take your seat.
HON. GONESE: I want to raise an issue, you do not know which issue I want to raise – [HON. MATUKE: Uyu akudherera Speaker and we will not allow that.] –
HON. CHIBAYA: Hapana munhu anofanira kuvhundutsira munhu muno and akasikwa achirova kudarika vamwe hakuna and anogona kurova kudarika vamwe hapana.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, please sit
down. Hon. Gonese I said please sit down, take your seat.
HON. MURAI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I am tired of that
whispering – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have my rights no, no.
HON. MURAI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not taking any points of order. Hon. Murai please take your seat – [HON. CHIBAYA: Inaudible interjection.] – Order Hon. Chibaya. I think we are now through. My ruling is, tomorrow I will look into all those cases/issues. Hon. Chamisa was complaining about Hon. Holder. The other members were complaining about what Hon. Chamisa said. So, on these two issues, I will look into that after the House has adjourned – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, that is my ruling.
HON. MURAI: On a point or order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
HON. MPARIWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. MPARIWA: I am quoting Standing Order No. 68(d). I humble myself before you, I want the august House to be aware that in this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon.
Speaker let me just say a few things.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What exactly do you want to
say?
*HON. MPARIWA: What I want to say is, I have been in
Parliament since 2000, I witnessed people fighting and that was Hon.
Bennet and Hon. Chinamasa. When Hon. Bennet actually hit Hon. Chinamasa, it did not take time for him to be removed from Parliament and he had to leave the Chamber. Secondly, – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – may you please be attentive then you can deny me of what I want to say. There is someone who said derogatory statements to the female members on this side of the House and called them prostitutes. Madam Speaker, I want that Hon. Member to tell us whom he was prostituting with, if not, we are not going to proceed unless you make a ruling on this matter. [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, can we have order
please. Hon. Members, that is a new allegation. Hon. Mpariwa, did you say that, Parliament cannot proceed if here is no ruling?
*HON. MPARIWA: Madam Speaker, I requested that Hon.
Members be attentive. We said we wanted that Hon. Member to reveal where she found us engaging in prostitution. That is what I said. She should reveal where she saw us engaging in prostitution. It was Hon.
Mahoka.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Referring to Hon. Mpariwa’s
case, the person who is said to have said that is not the person who had the floor. So, I did not hear that. Yes, I did not hear that and for that reason we will need to – I will not make a ruling on something that I have not heard – [HON. MUCHENJE: We actually heard her saying all those allegations. We did not come here to engage in prostitution. We came to Parliament not to be told that we are prostitutes.]
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Madam Speaker, I am requesting that we have order in this august House. There have been allegations by Hon. Chamisa and him allegedly being attacked by Hon. Holder and also allegations that he said Hon. Members are illiterate and that Hon. Holder is drunk. Since we have cameras here and the ruling that you have given to refer to cameras is correct, in order to have fruitful deliberations, I propose that you stand by your ruling. It is not an issue because it was recorded. Those who were present saw what actually happened and it is also on camera, so you can always go back. Now as Hon. Members, remember the whole country is watching what we are doing and it is unbecoming before the nation at large.
We are not going to be taking any sides but we need to follow the rules as Hon. Members. Both parties are not clear of what exactly took place. So, my request is that we continue with proceedings in an honourable manner. I thank you.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank Madam Speaker for the request
made by Hon. Dr. Gumbo who is a Minister. For sure it is a good idea that this august House should proceed with deliberations. The reason we are here is that we are coming from our constituencies where we represent people who elected us into office. As we come to this House, we come with concerns raised by our constituents that lead to fruitful deliberations. We need to follow the law of the land. If we abide by the laws there will be fruitful deliberations in this House.
For anyone who will have committed an offence, there should be no partisanship whether one is from the ruling party or the opposition. That should not be the case. The issue that I am talking about Madam Speaker is the same issue that we want to address which is causing others to make noise in this House, thereby disrupting proceedings. My request is that as you give your ruling, may you please make a ruling that will leave all Hon. Members satisfied than for us to sit down and interrogate the ruling and say I never heard this and why has this taken place. That is what is causing confusion.
Lastly, once we stand up to say “point of order”, you ask us to refer to the section that we are using which is good Madam Speaker. The section that we are talking about is Section 68 (d) but none of us really understands what Section 68 (d) is taking about. The reason being - I have mentioned this before, when Honourable Mudenda was in the Chair, that when reforms were made of the Standing Orders, we as Members of Parliament did not have sight of the Standing Orders. We do not even know what Standing Order you are talking about. The only people who are aware of the Standing Orders are those people who sit in the SROC. It is them who have the Standing Orders on their computers and the Clerk. So, how do we know the Standing Orders if we have not had sight of them and they have not been given to us. We need them so that we can read and understand them. The reason why we keep erring in this House is because we are not aware. We have not been availed the corrected or edited Standing Orders. So, there is need to give us those Standing Orders. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I
want to respond to what has been raised by Hon. Members. Once people do not listen and make noise whilst you are talking; that is what I am giving a ruling on, that we will look into everything that transpired in this House. I cannot give a ruling on what I have not seen, but the cameras are here, the media is here as well as the Hansard Reporters. I will then give a ruling after looking at all this evidence – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
If it is an issue of Standing Orders or the books or the booklets, Administration is working on those books. Hon. Mudenda responded to that. They are still being worked on and Hon. Mudenda gave that ruling that once they are done, but we want to work on what has happened in this august House, so that we proceed with the business of the august House.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker my point earlier on was that the Minister followed due process yesterday and today, to ensure that we continue with the business of the day.
The other point that I wanted to say Madam Speaker is, this Constitution came into effect in 2013 and Hon. Members have been complaining… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members
HON. ZIYAMBI: Members have been complaining that there is a slow process of realignment of the laws and the Hon. Minister came and said I want to do this…– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - They complain again to say that we do not want that, yet he is complying with the provisions of the Constitution that dictates that we have to ensure that the laws are aligned. So, we cannot have both ways that we say we want the laws aligned and at the same time we question where has he been. He has come forward to do what he is supposed to do. Why are we denying him the chance to do what he is supposed to do? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, my point of order is that…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, can we have order
please?
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: The Hon. Member is not debating on
the suspension of the rules. He is actually arguing that this change of rule, which is being fast tracked in Parliament, is aligning the law to the
Constitution, but the Bill for the whole alignment, where the Government has abused the Constitution in not having a full metropolitan council. We should have these MPs and these MPs in those metropolitan councils helping the mayor and others to administer.
He is not here and he is fast tracking a piece and this here, is a whole lawyer abusing us in this office. I think it is not fair for an MP to come and belittle us and say this is what you are asking for.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, as far as I understood what he was saying, I do not think there is anyone who is belittling other Hon. Members here. He is debating on what he sees has been brought here by the Minister. If you want to debate, you can as well stand up and we recognise you and you debate. There is no problem of challenging what someone is saying.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was debating to indicate the urgency in trying to realign the laws. One of the criticism has been that there is too much corruption and the Minister, if you look in terms of Section 278, it says a councillor, a chair person, can only be suspended or removed from office according to this section, but it goes on to say, where it states Speaker, you substitute with Minister, indicating what the Minister is doing. He is using the powers bestowed by the Constitution to correct a legal lacuna which is there so that he can execute his duties properly. There emanates the urgency of the matter in that, for him to execute his duties properly, he has to realign this particular section with the Local Government Act so that he can do his work properly. So, I think the Minister has satisfied all the requirements that are required in this matter, so that he can execute his duties. I thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The Minister, in his submission, Madam Speaker, in fast tracking this Bill which resulted in the Minister wanting to suspend automatic adjournment of the House at 6.55 p.m, the Minister cites or flags a number of issues. One of the issues that the Minister flags is that he wants to deal with the mischief of corruption in Local Authorities as a matter of urgency.
Madam Speaker, I realised that issues of corruption are being dealt with without the Bill and I will cite examples. One example happened today. Mayor of Harare, Ben Manyenyeni - a court ruling said he must go back to work and get his full benefits and just as he was leaving the court, he was taken by members of the Anti Corruption Commission. So, issues of corruption are being dealt with outside of this Bill. So, I will leave that aside.
What we are talking about here, Madam Speaker. We are talking about two things. We are debating whether or not we should maintain a constitutional democracy or we should decline into an autocracy.
Madam Speaker, we are debating suspension of rules. Suspension of rules, Madam Speaker, means we are mutilating the Constitution and I will tell you the reasons.
As one Hon. Member who spoke before me said, this Constitution came into existence in 2013 and this is the fourth year. Ever since the Constitution came into operation three years ago, the country has been waiting for the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act among other Statutes to be amended so as to devolve powers to local authorities according to the independence they are entitled to under Chapter 14 of this Constitution. The Minister has not done that in three years and this is the fourth year. Today the Minister comes and he wants to suspend all rules and regulations of this House so that he brings a Bill which deals with one person, Ben Manyenyeni. This is a Ben
Manyenyeni Bill. Madam Speaker we cannot allow it to happen.
Let me give you the background. I will go to the background Madam Speaker. The Mayor and councillors of Gweru brought to court an application challenging their suspensions while the Bulawayo High
Court declared the suspension of the Gweru mayor and councillors to be unconstitutional. The suspension of the Mayor of Harare was declared valid by the High Court in Harare and that is why he went on suspension. When he made an urgent court application, it was thrown out on the basis that the Minister…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member…
HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, I am giving you
background. Let me give you background.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I want to remind you that we
are debating about the suspension of automatic adjournment – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interventions.] –
HON. MARIDADI: I am putting it in context Madam Speaker. I do not want to be quoted out of context. Madam Speaker, I want to quote the legal issues involved; Section 278 of the Constitution that I am holding, which came into being in 2013 sets out the sole grounds on which mayors and councillors can be removed from office. It states that an Act of Parliament must provide for the establishment of an independent tribunal to remove them. So far, no Act provides for the setting up of such a tribunal. Section 114 of the Urban Councils’ Act gives the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing powers to suspend mayors and councillors for up to 45 days while their conduct is being investigated and allows the Minister to dismiss them if the investigations show that they are guilty of gross mismanagement of the council affairs.
Madam Speaker, the High Court of Bulawayo held that in the absence of an Act of Parliament allowing an independent tribunal to be established as envisaged by the Constitution, the mayors and councilors of Gweru who were suspended by the Minister got a court order to go back to work, which the Minister ignored. The mayors and councilors of Gweru could not be dismissed and there could be no valid reason for their suspension.
Madam Speaker, why is the Minister trying to rail-road suspend the Constitution, suspend Standing Order so that he brings a Bill which deals with mayors of Harare, Bulawayo and Gweru? Let me tell you where the Minister is coming from and we can see him from afar. The Minister, because time is running out for the dismissal of Manyenyeni, he wants to bring this Bill so that he can go and dismiss Manyenyeni. Madam Speaker, you do not make laws for one person, this country does not belong to Manyenyeni. The country belongs to 15 million people, the Minister cannot come up with a Bill to deal with one person. A Minister cannot be allowed to do that. We make laws for posterity not for one person. If the Minister has a problem with Manyenyeni, he is free to approach the courts and deal with Manyenyeni as an individual and not try to bring the whole nation to support him deal with Manyenyeni. I rest my case, thank you.
Some Hon. Members having been throwing some papers on the
floor
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. There is something happening there Madam Speaker. It will cause disorder – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – if you can allow me Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – We want to assist each other. Hon. Madam Speaker…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, let us have order.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to echo the sentiments of Hon. Gumbo when he spoke eloquently earlier on that the whole nation of Zimbabwe is looking at us as the representatives of the people to pass laws for the order and good governance of this country. What is now happening is that Notice of Amendments have been prepared and they are being circulated to all Members of this august
House so that they can acquaint themselves with what one of our Hon.
Members would like to propose as amendments. As the Notice of Amendments are being circulated by staff of Parliament to all Members in this august House, what I am seeing is embarrassing. We are having a situation where Hon. Members are throwing those Notice of
Amendments – I do not know those who are in the gallery, the press – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – what are we trying to portray Madam Speaker? I am appealing to all Hon. Members to behave honourably. You do not behave honourably by exhibiting the kind of behaviour that I am witnessing. I would like Hon. Speaker, if Hon. Members can be advised that the way that they are behaving is not respectful of this august House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you please
help me so that…
HON. GONESE: I am trying to help Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to help you as well.
We are debating on the issue of suspension of the Automatic
Adjournment, someone is distributing something, I do not think it is yet time to bring the amendments because we are not yet debating on the Bill. We want to pass this one, we have to finish on suspension so that we do something – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: This is a point of order, I am not debating. This is a point of order Madam Speaker. It is not like the amendments are unrelated because they are related to the Bill. It is not like they are notices of amendments for some other business. This business we are debating now is adjournment to enable us to extend the time so that we can then debate it today. At the same time, it is to enable Members to have sufficient time to acquaint themselves. If it waits until the time you are talking about, they will ask for more time. So, I believe at this point in time, Members must behave honourably. If notices of amendments are being circulated, they must take them and not behave in the manner they are behaving. It is also causing pandemonium. There was commotion in this House as a result of that conduct. I submit Madam Speaker that such behaviour is unbecoming of Hon. Members.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, while I hear
your point of order – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Member, would you please behave! Would you please respect the House? I hear your voice on top of all the other voices. Please respect others. Hon. Gonese, “warikurasa mapaper.” It does not stop us to proceed with those amendments. That has nothing to do with our debate. There are others who have the amendments. Can we please proceed with what we were doing?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO):
Madam Speaker, I stand on a point of order using Standing Order Number 98, which says that when a debate has been prolonged, it must be brought to a vote in order to continue with the business of the House.
I so move Madam Speaker.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, it is not proper. You allow someone to finish first. He should bring his motion after someone has finished debating. Objection Madam Speaker. It is not correct. You recognised him and another Hon. Member was on the floor; he has not finished – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order Madam Speaker, I have a
question. If you are seated on that Chair as the Chairperson and give partisan rulings, what do we do in this House? We are not happy with the rulings that you are giving; you are displaying partisanship.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Standing Order Number 98
allows a Minister to come in if debate is being prolonged. He can suggest that a vote be made for the Bill to proceed. I allowed him because he is a Member of Parliament and a Minister as well.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, the Standing Order that has
been cited has been misapplied. I want to read the Standing Order because the advice that the Chair has been given is not correct. I will read it. Standing Order Number 98 (1) reads as follows, “After a question, except a question already barred from debate under the
Standing Orders has been proposed from the Chair.” These are the words that I would want to underline. Those words were not proposed from the Chair, so the Standing Order has been misapplied. You are using Standing Order 98 (1) inappropriately.
First of all, it was Hon. Gumbo who raised it and not the Chair. It must come from the Chair and the way you proceeded, it did not come from the Chair to begin with. It is the Chair which must formulate an opinion that this debate has been prolonged. It must not be raised by a Minister or an Hon. Member. The Standing Order makes no reference to a Minister. It does not make any reference to the Minister at all. It simply says, after a question has been proposed from the Chair, either in the House or in a Committee of the whole House. So the question must first be proposed by the Chair, which has not happened. So, if that happened in the manner that it has happened or have been applied, it is not correct. It is inappropriate, it is an abuse of the rules. The Chair should be the one who proposes not a Member or a Minister, it is not correct. There is also another point – [HON. DR. GUMBO: Kuchikoro waisanzwisisa.] – aiwa ini ndine Masters inini, ndakaita graduate manje manje, I now have got a Masters degree from Africa University not University of Zimbabwe pamunopa madegree e fake kuma doctorate.
There are two aspects, in terms of the rules of national justice …..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member.
Yes…
HON. GONESE: Yes.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It had been brought to my
attention that the debate was going on and on, so then I put the question to the House – [HON. MEMBERS: No, no!] -
HON. GONESE: There was also a second aspect. The second
aspect is that unless such a motion is an abuse of the minority, this is an infringement. Firstly, the question must be proposed from the Chair. The second point is that unless it appears to the Chair that such a motion is an infringement of the rights…..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Gonese
HON. GONESE: I want to read it, I have not finished…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, would you
please take a seat.
HON. GONESE: No, I have not talked about the infringement of the minority. There are three points which I want to make. The first point is about the proposition. The second point is about an infringement of the minority. That question cannot be put if it is an infringement of the minority. Read it, you can also take time to read what we are talking about. There is an infringement of the rights of the minority. I submit that the Chair did not apply its mind because there is a second aspect in that Standing Order which talks about the suppression or an infringement of the rights of the minority. The manner in which the question was proposed by the wrong person which is the Minister is an infringement of the minority.
Thirdly, it cannot be applied in the manner that you have purported to apply it. If you have got somebody who is on the floor, in accordance with the rules of national justice, you cannot have that person who has not concluded her or his debate being interrupted in the manner that the Hon. Minister purported to do. We should have allowed the Hon. Member to conclude his or her debate then the suggestion comes. I want to reiterate - it does not come from the Minister, it does not come from any other member and that is my point.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: My ruling on the point of order is we proceed because the Hon. Member who proposed that the debate was going on and on was also reminding me that we should put the question. So, I agreed to that and put the question that - [HON.
MEMBERS: No, no!] I have already passed on that – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE ON
THE WORKING CONDITIONS AT THE HWANGE
COLLIERY COMPANY LIMITED, NATIONAL RAILWAYS
OF ZIMBABWE AND DETE REFRACTORIES
HON. KWARAMBA: Madam Speaker ….
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no need for a point
of order, I have asked for Hon. Kwaramba to move her motion.
*HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Madam Speaker, are you saying I am
no longer allowed to raise a point of order. I stood up to claim my priviledge, personally I feel that what is happening in this august House is tantamount to rape. Madam Speaker, you have given a ruling but that ruling actually shows signs of partisanship. The point is if people have decided that they want to come and pass the Bill, they do not need the Opposition; we do not want to go out because it is a duty but our argument is that we have not yet interrogated this Bill and you cannot force us to look into this Bill. This is tantamount to rape, thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are
reiterating the same statement.
Hon. Eng. Mudzuri having stood up.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, please take a
seat.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Madam Speaker. While I
do understand the need for progress in the House, there is an outstanding issue. When Hon. Madam Speaker put the question to the House, there was a response to the effect that there must be debate and the Hon. Madam Speaker did not rule about dividing the House. There was an objection….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, I did not hear that.
HON. MAJOME: There was an objection Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Objection about what?
HON. MAJOME: No, there was an objection and a call for division on the question as to whether or not we adjourn the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not hear that. It is
because you are making a lot of noise. Who called for the division?
HON. MAJOME: Madam Speaker, it is our democratic right to
express ourselves. We did call for a division.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese did not say
anything about that.
HON. MAJOME: It was not him who called for division but
there was a call for the division.
Hon. Gonese approached the Chair.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Madam Speaker, my respective view is
that there was a call for division and the Hon. Members who called for it have a democratic right to be allowed to express themselves in this Parliament in that way. I would propose that we proceed in that light so that we can then make progress.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ngatitaurirane chokwadi. I
did not hear anyone calling for division of this House. If there was someone, we would have acted that way – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]- We have already passed the stage of calling for a division.
I cannot hear anyone who is calling from his seat but someone who has asked to be recognised and told the Chair that they are asking for a division, and then I would have acted accordingly. Not anyone who is calling from anywhere, it is very hard.
HON. MAJOME: Hon. Speaker that becomes unfortunate
because it becomes a very undemocratic Parliament.
HON. SARUWAKA: Point of Oder!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not going to entertain
point of order, Hon. Saruwaka would you please sit down.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE ON THE WORKING CONDITIONS AT THE HWANGE COLLIERY
COMPANY LIMITED, NATIONAL RAILWAYS OF ZIMBABWE
AND DETE REFRACTORIES
HON. KWARAMBA: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House takes note of the Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare on the working conditions at the Hwange Colliery Company Limited, National
Railways of Zimbabwe and Dete Refractories (S. C. 8, 2016).
INTRODUCTION:
In line with Parliament’s role of upholding the Constitution, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare conducted an inquiry into working conditions at Hwange Colliery Company Limited. National Railways of Zimbabwe indebted refractories, Section, 65 of the Constitution provides for Labour rights which encompasses the right to fair and satisfactory conditions of work.
The inquiry was propelled by the outcry of employees from various organisations seeking the Committee’s intervention over unfair labour practices by employers, irregular payment of salaries and the 2015 nationwide job dismissals. The dismissals were a result of the precedent set by a Supreme Court ruling on the case of Nyamande and others versus Zuva Petroleum Private Limited, in July 2015 on the basis of which employers dismissed workers on notice without any financial packages. Hence the committee was obliged to establish the welfare of the country’s workforce by visiting the above mentioned companies.
Our objectives were to establish workers conditions of service, including remuneration, working environment, health and safety practices at the companies.
METHODOLOGY
The Committee conducted fact-finding visits to the following government owned companies from 4-7 October 2015:
- Hwange Colliery Company Limited (HCCL) which is a coal mining entity;
- National Railways of Zimbabwe-Dete Station (NRZ) which is a transporter of public goods and services by rail; and
- Dete Refractories, a brick and tile manufacturing company.
The Committee also considered written submissions from the three companies.
COMMITTEE FINDINGS
Hwange Colliery Company Limited
At the time of the Committee’s visit, Hwange Colliery Company
Limited’s production levels were 6 million tonnes of coal per annum.
The company’s mining equipment had become obsolete, particularly underground mining machinery and the bulk of production was being undertaken at its open cast mining fields. Management informed the Committee that the company could not afford to purchase or repair machinery and subcontracted part of its work. Major challenges faced by the company include, lack of working capital, obligation to supply coal to the Zimbabwe Power Company while competitors export, attachment of company assets by creditors among others.
HCCL owed its 3 000 employees, 25 months’ worth of remuneration in salary arrears dating back to 2013 and amounting to US$45 million. Additionally, pensioners had not received any financial benefits since 2009. The committee was informed that the employees were being paid monthly US$200 salaries and received food hampers as mitigation against economic hardships. However, workers’ representatives highlighted that these items were being issued inconsistently and the last disbursement of the food hampers had been in May 2015. The Committee further learnt that HCCL paid school fees for workers’ dependants at selected schools. Nonetheless, the company sometimes failed to pay school fees on time resulting in students being turned away. The Committee was also informed that the letters of assurance for payment sent to schools by HCCL management were no longer acceptable to most headmasters.
In addition, the workers representatives reported to the Committee that although medical aid deductions appeared on their pay slips, nothing was being remitted to the medical aid fund, resulting in employees having to buy their own drugs when they visit the under-resourced company clinic or other medical centres. Furthermore, the Committee was informed that HCCL management had failed to facilitate any Works Council meetings since 2013, on the basis that they were occupied with other work related duties. The workers representatives also reported that management had rejected their cost-cutting proposal of repairing the company’s malfunctioning machinery, in order to avoid the more expensive option of hiring contractors who require immediate payment.
The Committee learnt that HCCL had an effective safety and health policy which was shown during its tour of the company’s open cast mining site. Members of the Committee had an opportunity to observe employees who were dressed in protective clothing such as overalls, helmets and safety shoes operating heavy machinery during the tour. The Committee also had sight of the newly acquired equipment from Belarus, India.
4.2 National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ)
4.2.1 The NRZ is in a state of decline with a decrease in performance from 9.5 million tonnes of cargo moved in 2000 to only 3,8 million in 2014. Management informed the Committee that the company could not generate adequate resources to sustain operations or improve the situation. The company’s infrastructure is in a deplorable state with railway line speed restrictions reported to be 57 covering
278,31 kilometers of rail at the time of the Committee’s visit. Having decommissioned electric locomotives, the company manually controls trains and diesel locomotives. In addition, the entity’s functional mainstay wagons decreased from 7 152 in 2000 to 3 015 in 2014 and the coaches from 194 in 2000 to 62 during the same period. NRZ management has over the years taken various initiatives to improve the company’s precarious resources position including introduction of public-private partnerships and sourcing recapitalization loans from the Development Bank of South Africa which requires the Government’s support as guarantor.
4.2.2 The company had 5 805 workers and at the time of the
Committee’s visit employed contract workers during peak periods. It was also staffed by 32 members from the Zimbabwe Defence forces whose salaries were paid from the army and only obtain allowances from NRZ. At the time of the Committee’s visit NRZ’s employees had accumulated 11 months salary arrears amounting to US78.9 million. Management informed the Committee that salary reductions had been introduced in order to improve predictability of payment dates and the lowest paid employee’s salary was US$172.50. However, the employees’ representatives lamented the lack of fixed payment dates and that salary reductions had left some employees earning US$50.00 as a monthly salary which could not meet basic living needs. The employees’ representatives proffered that company properties such as unoccupied houses in Dete, butcheries and bulky scrap metal be sold to raise funds for payment of salaries.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Madam Speaker on a point of order, I
refer to Section 56 (3) of the Constitution which states, “Every person has the right not to be treated in an unfairly discriminatory manner on such grounds as their nationality, race, colour, tribe, place of birth, ethnic or social origin, language, class, religious belief, political affiliation, opinion, custom, culture, sex, gender, marital status, age, pregnancy, disability or economic or social status, or whether they were born in or out of wedlock.”
Madam Speaker I quoted this particular provision because I
strongly feel that what you have done to me today is in breach of this provision. I have every right as a Member of Parliament, in this House, after you had recognised me to take the floor. The provision that was raised by the Minister came after you had already recognised me. It was going to be fair if you had allowed me to debate and then attend to the Minister. But the fact that you had already recognised me, I felt discriminated when you stopped me from debating.
I strongly feel that you have discriminated me. Is it because of my dreadlocks or the political party that I belong to? I want to understand the reason why after nominating me to take the floor you then reversed that decision?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have heard you Hon.
Member, I will recognise you next time. What you are saying is not that I hate you, it is not that but because our debate has gone on and on so we had to get somewhere, we stop and proceed with something. I am sorry about that. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – May you please proceed Hon. Member?
HON. KWARAMBA: 4.2.3 The poor state of affairs at NRZ can
partly be attributed to:-
- theft and vandalism of transmission cables dating back to the
2000s;
- non-availability of spare parts;
- old equipment such as locomotives and wagons;
- lack of recapitalization and working capital and
- low business partly due to competition from road transport that is haulage trucks.
4.2.4 NRZ management admitted to the Committee that the company was unable to provide safety clothing for its employees. In addition, the workers’ representatives informed the Committee that there was systematic violation of the organizational safety and health policy at the company as employees had to perform their duties without protective clothing or face dismissal. A case in point was a railway line patrolman who maintained a railway line in the wild animal infested Dete area without any form of protection at the risk of being attacked by lions, elephants and other wild animals.
4.2.4 The Committee learnt that the NRZ partially remitted employer/employee contributions to Railmed, an in-house medical aid fund, resulting in the company failing to provide adequate health insurance for its employees. The workers’ representatives decried that the company offered funeral assistance but was unwilling to advance loans for medication purposes to works whom it owed salaries. The Committee was also informed that the company remits partial employer/employee contributions to the Pension Fund, National Social Security Authority (NSSA) and the Zimbabwe National Manpower
Development Fund (ZIMDEF) which delayed the payment of retirees’ benefits. These included 456 workers retrenched on the basis of the precedence set by the July 2015 Supreme Court Ruling. The workers’ representatives complained that the dismissals only affected lower grades and management used the opportunity to dispose of vocal workers and those of ill-health including an employee who had served the company for 34 years and had a year left before retirement. Finally, the workers’ representatives bemoaned the high rental charges imposed on company houses in Dete which led employees to seek cheaper accommodation elsewhere where they had to travel long distances to the work station.
4.3 Dete Refractories
4.3.1 Dete Refractories is part of the Last Hope Estate in Dete which is under the supervision of Ginhole Investments Private Limited, a subsidiary of the Industrial Development Corporation of Zimbabwe (IDCZ). The IDCZ took over operations of the estate which was a distressed company from the Zimbabwe Development Corporation in 2005. Dete Refractories manufactured tiles and bricks. At its peak the company employed 76 workers but had only 14 workers left at the time of the Committee’s visit. The Committee was informed that the major challenges faced by the entity include: low worker morale and lack of markets for their products. Efforts made to revive the company over the years include: acquiring a US$100 000 loan from the Industrial Development Corporation of South Africa in 2010 and the construction of a larger kiln with a holding capacity of 100 000 bricks.
Management informed the Committee that salary arrears accumulated by 2014 varied across the grades, with the highest amounts being US$2 822 and US$60 719 for operatives and management respectively. At the time of its visit, the Committee was informed that 2015 salaries had been paid in full from January to August and only payments for the month of September were outstanding amounting to US$155 and US$2 933 for operatives and management grades respectively. Contrary to that, employees informed the Committee that the General Manager habitually issued empty promises of salary payment which were never fulfilled when the company made profits.
The employees reported that at one time, they earned US$25 each after five months of non-payment. Further to that, the employees emphasised that the highest amount they ever received as salary was
US$50 per individual after three months without payment. The General Manager, Mr. Zivanai informed the Committee that the company sometimes issued tiles and bricks to employees as payment, a position which was confirmed by the latter. Other allowances accruing to employees include a non-contributory funeral assurance scheme for all employees.
While the General Manager told the Committee that employees received work suits every six months and had last been issued with new work suits in January 2015, employees informed the Committee that the clothing they were wearing had been purchased for purposes of its visit. Furthermore, employees complained that the General Manager habitually used abusive language when addressing them. The Committee also had an opportunity to meet the Chairperson of the company’s Board of Directors Mr. B. Mushowe who led eight other companies under the IDCZ.
Summary of Workers’ Grievances
- Total neglect of employees’ welfare issues by companies.
- Salary arrears without any indicative dates of payment.
- Bullying by management at Dete Refractories where the General Manager was reportedly in the habit of using abusive language when addressing subordinates.
- Salary reductions at NRZ to paltry amounts which could meet basic living needs of workers and their families.
- Lack of fixed dates of salary payments which made it impossible for workers to plan.
- Victimisation in the dismissal of workers at NRZ on the basis of the July 2015 Supreme Court ruling which affected lower grades only.
- Non-remittance of deducted moneys appearing on pay slips which prejudiced workers of due benefits, such as medical aid and retirement packages at HCCL and NRZ.
- Violation of safety and health requirements at NRZ and Dete
Refractories and
- Reluctance to offer medical assistance and settling salary arrears by companies.
Committee Observations
HCCL and NRZ are of strategic importance to the country’s economic development. While HCCL is the major supplier of coal to Hwange Thermal Power Station and its viability guarantees coal supplies to power projects and the manufacturing sector, the importance of a functional national railways system cannot be overemphasised. Similarly, the role played by Dete Refractories to the Dete Community as a source of livelihood should not be understated. Apart from loss of employment for more than 8 000 workers employed by these entities, the closure of HCCL will create yet another ‘ghost’ town and exacerbate poverty levels in the country.
The relationships between workers and management of the three companies were characterised by mistrust which compromised productivity. There was generally low workers morale due to nonsettlement of salary arrears without any prospect of payment in sight. Workers and their families could no longer lead decent lives due to irregular payment of salaries. Employees of Dete Refractories and NRZ were exposed to unhealthy working conditions due to lack of protective clothing. The subcontracting of work at HCCL lacked transparency. NRZ manually controlled trains and diesel locomotives should be maintained. At the time of the Committee’s visit, the management of HCCL had failed to organise Works Council meeting for three years, which is a violation of Section 25A (5) of the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01] which entitles a Works Council to be consulted by the employer on operations of the organisation.
Lack of markets for bricks and tiles was one of the major challenges faced by Dete Refractories. Dete Refractories is situated in a rural area where there is very low demand for commercially manufactured tiles and bricks. Therefore, management of the company violated provisions of the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01] by using these items to pay employees salaries at the usual market price value. Section 12A (2) of the Act stipulates that remuneration in kind should be appropriate for the personal use and benefit of the employee and his/her family. Furthermore, the value attributed to such payment shall be fair and reasonable. NRZ owns some properties such as houses in Dete, butcheries and bulky scrap metal. The equipment acquired from Belarus, India did not improve production levels at HCCL.
Recommendations
There is urgent need for the Ministries of Mines and Mining Development and Transport and Infrastructural Development to find effective long term solutions to reverse the down turn at HCCL and NRZ. Immediate forensic audits of HCCL, Dete Refractories and other under- performing parastatals should be conducted in order to establish the state of affairs at these companies as such inquests have proved to be effective in this regard. For example, the Auditor General’s Narrative Report on State Enterprises and Parastatals of 2014, which among other issues debunked the situation at the National Railways of Zimbabwe.
HCCL, NRZ and Dete Fefractories should devise innovative ways of improving business and implement reasonable steps towards settlement of salary arrears in order to boost employees’ moral and ultimately, productivity. Dete Refractories should vigorously seek local and regional markets for its products, these are tiles and bricks. NRZ should modernise its old equipment which created high maintenance costs that results in uncompetitive pricing and services as compared to road transport.
HCCL should earmark proceeds from some of its coal mining concessions for full medical aid subscriptions and school fees payments for its employees and their dependents since failure to access medication and education negatively impact on the lives of its workforce. The Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing should support the local manufacturing industry through procurement of construction products such as tiles and bricks from Dete Refractories.
The Government should assist NRZ in its recapitalisation drive by guaranteeing the loan implementation of recommendations of the
Auditor General’s Narrative Report on State Enterprises and Parastatals of 2014. These include regular review of monthly bank reconciliation statements and evaluation of investment properties to guard against fraud.
Under utilised company assets such as houses at the NRZ- Dete Station should be rented out or sold to raise revenue for settling salary arrears. In addition, rental charges on NRZ houses should be scrapped to allow employees and their families to stay free of charge until the company resumes regular payment of full salaries. NSSA should conduct regular health and safety inspections at all companies nationwide, regardless of size, particularly in outlying areas of the country such as Hwange and Dete.
The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services should immediately conduct an inquiry into working conditions at Dete
Refractories. The management of HCCL should comply with Section 25 A of the Labour Act by organizing monthly Works Council meetings to discuss the best interests of the company including the best possible use of its human, capital, equipment and other resources that maximum productivity and optimum employment standards may be maintained.. In accordance with Section 12A (2) of the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01], management of Dete Refractories should immediately stop paying workers’ salaries with tiles and bricks, which are inappropriate considering the circumstances. In the event of failing to raise adequate funds to pay employees’ salaries, mutually beneficial arrangements of other forms of payment in kind should be made with the workers. The IDCZ should consider limiting the number of portfolios under the leadership of an individual in order to facilitate effective oversight and accelerate the recovery of distressed companies, such as Dete Refractories.
NRZ should consider partnering with ICT operators in order to come up with efficient communication solutions for train control purposes. The Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare should expedite the comprehensive alignment of the Labour Act [Chapter 28:01] to the Constitution in order to guarantee fair and satisfactory conditions of work in the country. The alignment should be done without delay to avoid piecemeal solutions such as the Labour Amendment Act of 2015 which was enacted to address the 2015 countrywide job dismissals.
The above recommendations are to be effected by August 2016.
Conclusion - workers are key assets for the realisation of optimum out puts by organisations which leads to a country’s economy prosperity. Hence, there is urgent need for concerted efforts to restore the dignity of workers because without workers, Zimbabwe’s socio-economic transformation cannot be achieved. Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MOYO): Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 30th June, 2016.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. PROF. MOYO): Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 43 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 44 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 1, 2016]
Forty-Fourth Order read: Resumption of debate on the Second
Reading of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill [H.B. 1, 2016].
Question again proposed.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I just want to acknowledge and say that this Bill is a very powerful Bill and I will begin from where I left off.
Other Issues Raised by the Public
Members of the public complained that the publicity was not adequate and urged Parliament to look for better ways to inform the people of public hearings. People from the rural areas said they do not have access to newspapers and chances of seeing an advertisement are minimal.
Lack of copies of the Bill and the Constitution was raised. People were not able to contribute meaningfully because they did not know the issues. They urged Parliament to make enough copies and to distribute them in advance. Parliament was also urged to start advertising public hearings two week before the event.
THE COMMITTEE’S OBSERVATIONS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS
The Committee expressed disappointment that Members of the
Committee were not involved in the preparations of the public hearings on the Bill because the Executive did not give Parliament enough time to consult. This resulted in the Administration of Parliament acting on behalf of the Committee by coming up with the itineraries and suggesting dates for the public hearings and dates for Committee meetings. Although the Committee went ahead with the advice and instructions from the Administration of Parliament, in future the Committee urges the Executive to take Parliament business seriously and give the Committee enough time to consult.
Therefore, in relation to the above, Parliament was not given enough time to make necessary arrangements like sourcing for funds, advertising, consulting the public and looking for venues for the hearings. The whole process was rushed and the Committee wonders why suddenly the Executive was in a hurry to come up with the Bill considering that the Constitution was done in 2013 and the Committee has been asking for the alignment of local government laws for some time. The Committee also observed that there was poor publicity of the public hearings and members of the public complained that they did not receive copies of the Bill and the Constitution. The Committee urges Parliament to start advertising about two weeks before the event and to find a way of circulating copies of the Bill in advance. The Minister is encouraged to consult as much as possible regarding the independence of the Tribunal in order for the process to be transparent.
Conclusion
In Section 157 A (2), the Committee noted that there were some amendments made to the Bill to the effect that Judicial Service
Commission was substituted by the Law Society of Zimbabwe.
In Section 157 A (5), amendments are also to the effect that the Law Society of Zimbabwe and Civil Service Commission are the ones nominating or appointing members or alternates to the Independent Tribunal. The report presented was based on the information gathered on the first draft Bill that was circulated in May 2016.
HON. CROSS: Madam Chair, it is three years since we adopted the new Constitution of Zimbabwe and one of the most fundamental principles enunciated by the new Constitution is the principle of devolution of power away from Central Government to local authorities that have been democratically elected. I will just quote one sentence from the Preamble – There must be devolution of power and responsibilities to lower tiers of Government in Zimbabwe. In part 1, in
264, it states that, “wherever appropriate, Government powers and responsibilities must be devolved to provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities which are competent to carry out their responsibilities efficiently and effectively.” In Section 2, it says, “the objectives of the devolution of Government and responsibilities to provincial metropolitan councils and local authorities are” and here I quote again, Madam Speaker,
- “To give powers of Local Government to the people and to enhance their participation in the exercise of the powers of the State and in making decisions affecting them.
- To promote democratic, effective, transparent, accountable and coherent Government in Zimbabwe as a whole and finally;
- To recognise the right”, these are strong words Madam Speaker,
“the right of communities to manage their own affairs and to further their development”
Madam Speaker, the principle of devolution is a foundation principle of many successful countries. If we look at the dramatic changes in Rwanda, one of the key principles in Rwandese evolution from a state in crisis, to a developmental State that is growing rapidly today; one of the fastest growing economies in Africa, is the fact that they have devolution as a basic policy – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members order please.
HON. CROSS: They have devolution, the principle of devolution of power. If we look at the Kenyan Constitution, they have devolved power to 57 local authorities and 70% of the revenue of Government is devolved to local authorities for local expenditure. If we look at any other developed country in the world, whether it is the United States, Britain or Germany, the principle of devolution of power to local authorities is a fundamental tenet. I cannot imagine a situation where the democratically elected Mayor of London could be removed from his position by the Minister of Local Government in Britain – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. CROSS: Madam Speaker, this Bill has one job in mind and
that is to give the Minister, powers that were stripped from him in the constitutional process. Under the present Local Government Act, both of them, he has the power to suspend and remove councillors and councils. He has the power to appoint a Commission to run those local authorities. He has exercised this power no less than 14 times since the MDC Government took control of local authorities in 2000.
On these 14 occasions, he has often replaced democratic elected councils with Commissions as he has done in Gweru and in the case of Harare, a Commission run the City of Harare, which contains a third of the population of Zimbabwe and is the largest metropolitan centre in Central Africa, ran it for two years without any cognisance to the democratic rights of the people in that City.
Madam Chair, I do not want to make this long, otherwise we are going to be here all night. Let me just say this, that the future of this country is not going to be found in Mberengwa; it is going to be found in the cities – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - It is the cities that generate our GDP. If we have a look at South Africa, 60% of the
GDP of South Africa is generated in Gauteng. That means 60% of the revenue to Government is generated by Gauteng. I would imagine the percentage for Zimbabwe for Harare is even greater. Harare
Metropolitan Council consists of five cities. Chitungwiza’s population today is over two million; the population of Harare is over three million. If we take the combined population of the five cities, we are approaching six million people Madam Chair, that is 50% of the population of Zimbabwe.
The Government of this area, under the new Constitution, is represented by the elected councillors in that area. The Mayor of Harare is the Chairman of the Metropolitan Council; he is the premier of the Metropolitan Council. Madam Chair, when I flew in to Cape Town the other day, the picture on the wall of the Cape Town Airport was not that of Jacob Zuma, it was that of Helen Zille because Cape Town is a D.A.
managed province of South Africa and the situation is – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, let us have order
please.
HON. CROSS: Madam Chair, the point I am making is that, I cannot imagine a scenario in South Africa where the Minister of Local Government would have the power to suspend the Mayor of Cape Town under no circumstances, no matter how justified. It will be left to the people to decide who is going to be the Mayor of Cape Town. This Bill is not fulfilling the mandate of Government to align the laws of Zimbabwe to the new Constitution. It does not do that in any sense, in fact, I want to say to my colleagues on both sides of the House, that in my view, this actually subverts the Constitution. It represents an attempt to subvert the principles which were agreed during COPAC. The power to suspend is represented by the desire to actually control these local authorities for partisan purposes.
Now, I will refer to the suspension today, the arrest today of the Mayor of Harare. I just want to point out to members that the first suspension of the Mayor of Harare by this Minister was done without recourse to the courts. After 45 days, no substantiated charges were raised against him and I personally am completely satisfied that he has no charges to answer, whatsoever. The Mayor of Harare has 30 years of experience in the financial world, he is a top flight executive, and he is a man of considerable integrity. When he resumed work after 45 days, he was in the office for 24 hours and then the Minister illegally, in my view and unconstitutionally, again suspended him for 45 days. In fact, the Minister conveyed the view to the Mayor in a private conversation that if necessary he would suspend him repeatedly until 2018.
When the Mayor of Harare appeared in the High Court today, the High Court ruled that his suspension was illegal. He walked out of that court and walked onto the streets and was immediately arrested. Now Mr. Speaker, I need to know - how did the arresting authorities know that he was going to win his case? How did they know where he was going to be and why was he arrested immediately after this event? The
Minister has assured me this afternoon that he knows nothing about this
- I do not believe him. I believe that in fact, this is carefully managed, manipulated and it is a bankruptcy to this Bill here in this House. I would not be surprised if the Minister does not stand up in this House and make allegations about Bernard Manyenyeni. Mr. Speaker, I spoke to members of the Corruption Commission this morning and the Commissioners have told me that the allegations against him involve the supply of chemicals to urban councils. I want to categorically deny this allegation here this afternoon. Right now, the Mayor of Harare, the most senior citizen in the City of Harare, the man responsible for the welfare fifty percent of the population of Zimbabwe is in Avondale Police Station cells.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: On a point of order. The Hon.
Member is now interfering the with the court’s process and it is sub judice.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): The
case is not yet in court.
HON. CROSS: I want to inform this House of these events and I understand that the Anti Corruption Commission was formed 12 years ago. In 12 years they have not made a single arrest, they have not had a single conviction for corruption. You mean to tell me that in fact no cases of corruption have been brought to the Commission over that period of time? If the Mayor is found not guilty on these allegations, I personally am going to demand the resignation of the entire Commission because I think this is a politically inspired action and it is merely a backdrop to what we see in this House today. We have violated our rules, we have violated the Constitution. I want to inform the Minister that we have taken the whole Act to the Constitutional Court. Tomorrow morning, we will lodge an urgent court application to have this entire charade set aside by the Court.
Apart from these fundamental issues, I want to debate the following issues as far as the Bill itself is concerned. First and foremost, the Constitution calls for the establishment of an independent tribunal.
My understanding of independent tribunal is one that does not report to Hon. Kasukuwere. That is my understanding. When you have a tribunal which is selected by the Minister, paid by the Minister, whose secretarial services are provided by the Minister and the Minister can dismiss any member of the tribunal at anytime at his own will, you do not have an independent tribunal. It is a complete violation of the Constitution and I am certain that when we eventually get our day in court, and this has been before the courts for two months without a court date being set, I have no doubt whatsoever that the Constitutional Court will back us on this issue. Furthermore, because we are impatient to see these Bills amended so that they will be brought into line with the Constitution, I hope and trust that our Judges will knock down all the clauses in the Urban Councils and Rural District Councils Act that are unconstitutional today, and they are many.
The second point is that the control extended to remuneration of the council – now if you pay someone to do something and you determine his remuneration, believe me, you control him. This is totally unacceptable. I want this House, if we are going to pass this Bill, to determine the remuneration of the tribunal and not the Minister. I think it is absolutely a fundamental principle. There is no question that the secretarial services provided to the tribunal will be critical in the exercise of its mandate. The fact that the Minister wants his Ministry to provide the secretariat when he in fact is the accuser in the matter, he is the prosecutor and this is simply unacceptable. We must demand as a House and I am glad that Hon. Zindi has in fact given a very balanced report from the public hearings and I want to commend her for that. I notice that this was one of the issues raised by the Committee.
How can the Minister have the power to remove a member of the tribunal once it is appointed? It should be more like the dismisal of a judge, these people have a constitutional responsibility, they should not be subject to ministerial directive or control. I think it is essential if we are going to have an independent tribunal.
The last thing that I want to say is to refer to the constant disruption of democratic councils. If we take Gweru for example, we have won two cases in the High Court and I asked the Minister of Justice, is it the policy of this Government to allow Ministers to continually appeal these decisions to higher courts. Gweru Municipality is in the Supreme Court at the moment. It is costing Government thousands of dollars and it is costing us thousands of dollars. It is completely futile because the first two orders by the High Court were absolutely clear. He acted unconstitutionally. He had no mandate to do so. In Bulawayo, the High Court judge ordered our council to go back to work. When they went back to work they were locked out of their offices. This is bizarre. Is this a constitutional state or what? Does the rule of law apply here and what is involved?
Before I wind up, I want to say this abuse of central Government powers over local authorities must stop. It is the Minister’s responsibility to produce to this House a Bill which will align the Urban Councils Act, the Rural District Councils Act and the Town and Country Planning Act to the new Constitution. I suggest to him that rather than wasting our time with this futile and unconstitutional exercise today, he should get on with his job and amend the Local Government Acts properly.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to add my voice on the issue of the Local Government Amendment Bill. I am here to support the person who is seeking this amendment to the Bill and the drafter of the Bill. I do not believe that I will take ten minutes.
The issue of local authorities should be looked at carefully. Corruption is rife in local councils. I am the President of the Zimbabwe Urban and Rural Councils Workers Union and I know a lot of things. Hon. Kasukuwere is not the first one to suspend councillors. Even ZANU PF councillors such as Chidhau and others were suspended for misbehaving. Today, if someone has been suspended, why should we then say they should not be suspended because they are one of your own?
Hon. Speaker, in the house where I live we have equal rights, my wife and myself, but there is a head of the house. These equal rights do not apply to all and sundry. It is not proper that the Minister should not be more seniour than councils or superintend over councils. He should superintend over councils, he should superintend over mayors and if a mayor has misbehaved the mayor should be expelled. If councils have erred, they should be dismissed.
I support the Minister’s draft. Why I am saying so is because I heard about Rwanda, Congo and Kenya, but in Germany, mayors are subjected and are expelled or dismissed by Ministers. Why should Zimbabwe be an exception? Those that support the opposition parties, not in Zimbabwe - but all over Africa, in their own countries, they do very well, but they tell us what not to do. They say that mayors should not be dismissed when they have the power to dismiss their own. I say no, I do not believe that this is proper.
*HON. CHIDAKWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. A lot of the people who were speaking were talking about the dismissal of the Mayor and they were not given the chance, so this is what he is talking about. Are we here to pass a law that deals with one person?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
You are overruled. I have given him the floor. I have ruled that there is no point of order. He is talking about international practice. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. Please be quiet.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: The issue of the Minister giving people money, let me tell you Mr. Speaker, our judges and the lower courts, they are the magistrates. They are paid by the Government, but they do not care that they are paid by the Government. They give rulings. Today, Hon. Cross has disclosed that the matter has been dealt with, it has been heard in court, but the people who presided over the case did not bear in mind that they are paid by the Government. No judge will say because they are paid by the Government, if Hon. Chinotimba has stolen because he is from ZANU-PF party, then let me not apply the law properly. That is not correct. People who offer a service are paid and they need to be paid properly and they will do their job professionally.
The Minister has no money in his pocket. The money belongs to the Government; the money belongs to the Ministry. If a Ministry is given some money, it is the Ministry and not the Minister. It is the Ministry that the Minister superintends over. The Ministry has accounting officers and so on. If people have been elected, this is not the first time. We have NECs in the industries. When the workers and the employees have differences, they will look for an independent arbitrator that is called by the NEC. They do not care who pays the piper. They apply their minds to the issue.
It is the same with the Electoral Commissioner. If he had been elected, if they had been given a job, they run those offices although they are paid by Government. They do not make rulings that are in line with Government wishes. They look at the law. The Minister should look at people that are professional and they should have rules that should guide them in dealing with enquiries. It should not be the duty of
Parliament to look for the people who deal with this tribunal. The Minister and a Member of Parliament are the same. They are all legislators. He comes from Mt. Darwin where he represents the people, the same applies to me. So, we are one and the same. The Minister should be given his powers.
We have heard that, I do not know, when they say the communal lands or in the rural areas, they do not want to see development because the people in towns are better than those in the rural areas. I strongly object to that notion. Hon. Speaker, I should have called for a point of order. This is akin to treating rural dwellers as second rate citizens or that the people in towns cause them to lose. If they had six million, they should have won. That is not correct. There are very few people in the urban centers. They represent a few people.
The crux of the matter is that with regards to the issue of finance in terms of local Government, a local authority should not have 90 bank accounts whilst it is failing to pay its employees. What is the meaning of this? How can they have 90 accounts, one with 10c, 40c and the like when workers are not being paid?
I am saying that the Minister should be given power– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - The Minister should be given power to superintend over the operations. What I am in agreement with the opposition…
*HON MAONDERA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. We have observed that he has spent a lot of time on the floor. How many minutes are remaining? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - *HON CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, I had said I would not spend 10 minutes. I said so. I had indicated that I would speak for 10 minutes.
My considered view is that as an individual Hon. Member is that the Bill should be passed. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very much
Mr. Speaker Sir. I stand to speak to the amendments to the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill. I want to deal with it in two ways. I want to deal with it from both the process and content point of view. Mr. Speaker, it is most unfortunate that we had to spend two days stuck on issues of process. I think if we had been more careful about our process, we may actually have had enough time to deal with the principles of this Bill. Of all the Bills, issues of local government are the things that affect people on a day-to-day basis, particularly women. This is because local governance has a real impact on the day-to-day living of the generality of women in terms of energy, school or health.
I think I am quite sad and I was withdrawn in the past two days because I thought it was quite unfortunate that we got stuck on issues of process Mr. Speaker. However, let me raise the issues that I think are problematic around the issue of process. The first one is that when the Minister raised the issue around this particular amendment, I thought he was going to speak to why he confined himself to one aspect of the Bill and not the other aspects of that Bill. I think he still could have done that without necessarily bringing a Bill that speaks to a local government amendment - as if he is amending the entire local government. When we did the General Laws Amendment Bill; that was the opportunity for which the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs would have brought this particular aspect that the Minister wants to deal with.
If the Minister is saying his major problem at this point is the issue of corruption, he would have taken one aspect that was going to address the lacuna in the law, through the General Laws Amendment Bill so that when we get into the Local Government Amendment, we were going to deal with principles and issues that are involved in it. I think it is unfortunate that we find ourselves in that situation. However, I think it also speaks to the issues around how Government works because if there has been enough consultation on what is important at any given time, that issue would have been dealt with.
Mr. Speaker Sir, once again, I wish to raise an issue of process which should have been avoided. Part of the emotions and anger that you are seeing, arise from people who felt that they were being left out in the consultation process. I want to speak about what happened around Matebeleland South and North. Even from a Parliamentary point of view, before I even move to an Executive point of view; it is unfortunate that it took a lot of lobbying and arguments to bring in things that are basic. Section 18 in our Constitution provides about fair regional representation. You cannot have a whole list of where you are going to conduct public hearings and leave two provinces namely Matebeleland
North and South.
What is particularly sad for those who were part of the constitutional process, we know that the context around issues of local government and devolution were more spoken about in those provinces. Therefore, to come with a Local Government Bill which you think you can have and have a conversation, and deliberately leave a particular group, is problematic. You then go into problems where people will now say, you are discriminating us on the basis of where I come from. If you think you can have three public hearings in Mashonaland East and without shame, you think it is alright to not even have one in
Matebeleland North and South is problematic.
If the Minister sits here and hears the comments that were coming from Matebeleland North and South, he needs to understand that what was underlining the anger was the issue that you had shown that group of people that they did not matter in the issues of governance. When you come here and one has a problem in engaging in a process, it is borne out of the other issue that are being brought in that – I raised the issue of process in that you cannot have a good outcome out of a wrong process.
Mr. Speaker, I know that in terms of numbers and voting, the Bill will probably pass. We know that it is a foregone conclusion, but I think what is important is that; let us learn that the development of a people and a nation comes out of the ability and understanding of everybody thinking that they are part of the governance process. Yes you can win by numbers, but you may also lose by loosing those who could be working with you in the process. I will speak on that issue because I want to go on to the issue that the Minister raised, that of corruption. I know that this issue is being thrown back and forth because people are upset and angry.
However, let us assume – let me humour the Minister; let us assume that in all genuineness, indeed he wants to deal with the issue of corruption. Hon. Minister you will not address corruption as a person and as an individual. You will address corruption because the community is with you. As it is right now, it does not matter who is being fingered for corruption. You can arrest that particular individual and you could be right. However, in the minds of somebody in the street, they will always think that, that person is being persecuted because it has not come from the communities.
If you read Section 264, which deals with devolution, I think it is the underlying principle of what we are talking about on local government. I am glad that the Minister and I are still trying to learn what law is. He will understand this because we probably both failed. If you read Chapter 14 on devolution, it is the only other provision that has a preamble. You will know Hon. Minister, that if you are doing Statutory Interpretation, which we both failed. If you find that in a particular provision…
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga having been addressing the gallery.
THE ACTING SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon. Member,
address the Chair.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I am sorry, he probably
passed, but I failed. If we go to that Chapter 14, all the other Chapters do not begin with a preamble. This one begins with a preamble because it was important to underline why that particular provision was critical and important. If you allow me Mr. Speaker, it says; “Whereas it is desirable to ensure: (a) the preservation of national unity in Zimbabwe and the prevention of all forms of disunity and secessionism; (b) the democratic participation in government by all citizens and communities of Zimbabwe; and (c) the equitable allocation of national resources…”
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I wanted to bring was the issue of the desirability of national unity. What you saw in the last two days, does not show a desirability of national unity. It speaks to a nation that is disunited and it is unfortunate that what you saw in here typifies what you saw during the public hearings. That you had violence at public hearings is an indication of our lack of creating a unity in bringing people together. Mr. Speaker, I am saying so because, like I said, we may spend time here, we may go and vote or do anything, we may actually celebrate at the end of the day but the question that everyone should take home is; is this going to facilitate national unity or is it providing for disunity? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Having said that Mr. Speaker, I am imploring the Hon. Minister because I hoped he was going to do it in the Second Reading.
I am imploring the Hon. Minister to speak in very clear terms, what it is that he intends to do over the subject around devolution. If he does not do that, it is going to be an empty victory in this House. People out there will not understand what this is all about. Like I said, even if I humour him, and believe that he is doing it in essence and genuinely because he believes there is a problem, no one will buy into that particular process. So, I am hoping that when he gives his response, he will be able to say to us and I am not sure how he intends it. I am not sure whether he is going to bring another amendment specifically to deal with devolution.
I know that the answer we have had all this time has been that there is no money. However, I also hope that the Minister will explain to me what money is being looked for in terms of creating the provincial councils, which brings together probably once a month or quarterly both the Members of Parliament, the councillors and everybody else to sit in a room and discuss issues. I do not want somebody who is corrupt. I have been fighting with the City of Harare, for example, about paying rates. So, I am genuinely interested in being governed properly but I want a system and structure to which I can go and represent my issues so that they are dealt with. I am not sure how much it would cost to create that provincial council. I am sure those people that are part of the provincial councils that were elected would love to come and be able to do their work. It is ridiculous Mr. Speaker, that people that were elected and announced to have been elected are still sitting at home and people still think it is okay. It is wrong at every particular level so I am hoping that when he stands up, he will be able to explain to us.
In conclusion Mr. Speaker, I just want to raise an issue which I think is an issue of technicality and he may assist me in understanding it. The tribunal is supposed to deal with both rural and urban councils. We have now a split Ministry; we have an urban local authority and rural. So, what happens with those? Where is Hon. Ncube in this particular process? Like I said, I could be wrong but at a technical level, I am not sure. Around that tribunal, I raised the issues of fair regional representation. I am hoping that when we then have Members that sit on that tribunal, those members are representative of all the regions and are representative of the gender representations because we are not going to be able to have members who represent a particular region and have a particular ethnic thinking around it. That would also be quite problematic. Like I said Mr. Speaker, for me the most unfortunate thing around this whole thing is that it has taken all the smaller issues and actually refused to deal with the elephant in the living room because this is supposed to be a Bill on devolution. That we do not have devolution just makes it impossible for us to engage with it both from a process point of view and from an outcome content point of view. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
*HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to make my contribution on the Bill raised by the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. We are very grateful for the
Minister for introducing this Bill. I have a lot of experience through working for local authorities or councils where I worked for 15 years. I know pretty well how they operate. I have realised that the Council Chairperson and the Mayor run these councils as if they are running personal businesses. The Bill which has been raised by the Minister is a solution to that because it is aimed at helping the general populace.
Local authorities get money from rates and taxes and there are a lot of ways they use to bring these monies to the councils. Unfortunately, the Mayors and Chairpersons of Councils, instead of channeling the funds to the growth of these local authorities or benefit of the public, end up fattening their pockets. They give each other allowances and I can say truly – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I think
what we are doing now is quite unfair. We are supposed to maintain the silence that was maintained when Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga was actually debating. Order, order! Hon. Chibaya, I will give you the floor if you have got any objection to what is being contributed. Can you resume your debate?
*HON. MATUKE: In order for these local authorities to operate properly, it calls for the Government and the Minister to have control in their operations. We know there are some councils that deliver services to the people because they are led by Mayors who are people conscious but we have other Mayors who, when they handle these positions, take them as personal properties. We have had instances whereby people pay licences and when you look at the roads in those areas, they are full of potholes. Talking of the allowances, the Mayor or the Councillors will be driving three top of the range cars.
When we talk of corruption, some Members are angry because of this Bill as they have also been benefiting from the corrupt activities of these councillors. They know that this Bill has come to seal the loopholes that were giving them benefits. You are defending them by rejecting this Bill because you are benefiting from them.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker, my counterpart here is making very serious allegations that Hon. Members on your left are guilty of corruption by association and that they have been benefiting improperly from Mayors and so on. Those are unsubstantiated and false allegations and I submit that that should be withdrawn. It is unparliamentary to make baseless allegations against Hon. Members of this august House. There is no such evidence. If someone is opposing the Bill, that person is not supporting anyone. We are simply looking at the principles surrounding the Bill in question and not defending anyone. I submit Mr. Speaker Sir that those submissions are unparliamentary and must be withdrawn.
* THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I beg
you, if you used that language whereby you inferred that people are benefiting from corruption, may you please withdraw that statement.
*HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker, I would urge both parties; ZANU PF and MDC not to abuse funds from local authorities in a corrupt way. You should not benefit from corruption. My view is that this Bill – (HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, I am the Chair and I
am giving instructions.
*HON. MATUKE: What we intend to do is to develop the country. This country needs to be developed and if you have a Minister who is prepared to fight corruption so that both rural and urban develop from the rates and rents which ratepayers pay, this is an excellent Bill. We have read in the press and we hear of councillors, chairpersons and mayors who pay the salaries to workers which are more than services provided. The money collected is channeled to the salaries and no development is taking place. This is the reason we are thanking the Minister for bringing the Bill.
Mr. Speaker, if we have such mayors and council leaders who do that, they should be fired and the good ones employed but my experience is that most of the councils are failing to take care of the rate payers. Therefore, this is an important Bill, we should be grateful to the Minister so that he fires these people and employs people who are people conscious.
In conclusion, Government can only do well if it is supported by councils, local authorities and parastatals who are upright but if these quasi Government institutions are corrupt, there is no development in the country. Hence, it is essential that the Minister should have such powers to fire errant people.
HON. DR. KEREKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to contribute to this debate where we are …
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order is based on that we are, a multiparty Parliament but why are you only picking on ZANU PF members only, this is bias, if you want to practice this bias, go to the ZANU PF Headquarters and make presentations.
HON. DR. KEREKE: I want to add a voice to this very important motion. The issue at hand is that we ask the question as a Parliament, as a country, do we want to comply with the Constitution and I want to believe the answer is yes, we want to comply with the
Constitution. As it is, this moment, if say a councillor for example in Harare takes a gallon of gasoline and burns the whole Town House, the country has no mechanism to fire that councillor which constitutes to gross misconduct. If we look at a councillor for instance, whether it is by natural deterioration of health or is a result of consumption of narcotic drugs, a councillor loses his mind, he goes mad, going around tearing pieces, currently the Minister has no mechanism of how to retire that councillor. The law provides that where a councillor has been incapacitated physically, through ill health, there is need for them to vacate office.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when you look at the vice of corruption as we speak now, if the Hon. Minister discovers that a number of councillors have corruptly disposed council land, there is no mechanism of how to deal with such malpractices. So, the Bill gives that preamble to say we need to create an enabling piece of legislation of how to deal with glaring situations which require that Government intervenes. There are various forms of lunatic mindsets when you look at how to deal and eradicate corruption, we need a definite law. With that background, I am very pleased that a well meaning Bill has been placed before us. If there are sections which require modification, that cannot stand in taking away the urgent need to close that deficiency in our laws.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when we look at our own judiciary, there are laws that are spelt out on how to deal with areas where there is need for correction. If we go into Government, in individual Ministries, the Public Service Commission has well laid out procedures of how to deal with indiscipline but when it comes to local authorities, there is currently no law which guides Government in dealing with inappropriate contact like abuse of office and incompetence. When you look at what the Bill is simply trying to do, it is trying to conform, to comply with the Constitution. Various Members who have contributed, have asked why the rush. Clearly, I agree with Hon. Cross when he said local councils - urban and rural, affect the economy in many ways. We cannot afford as a country to leave such an important sector, ungoverned by specific laws that would enable the Hon. Minister to correct certain deficiencies.
When we look at the City of Harare Mr. Speaker Sir, it is the domicile of our industry. The City of Harare is resident to the heartbeat of our industry. You go to Bulawayo, we have critical industries that need to be revived. The reason why our industries may take longer than expected to recover is that it is where we have poor service delivery by local authorities. When local authorities are not discharging their duties proficiently, there is need for legal instruments to correct those deficiencies.
There were contributions by earlier presenters that the Bill did not touch on issues of devolution, on areas of provincial councils, etcetera.
Mr. Speaker Sir, that submission pre-supposes that the intention of the Hon. Minister was to create an umbrella amendment to deal with everything else. The objective of this particular amendment is to close a specific urgent gap that is there in our laws. That is to say, how do we deal with the removal from office mayors, councilors and chairpersons, which is critical at the moment.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, advocated and she put forward a suggestion for consideration. She indicated that we consider looking at all the provinces and regions and make sure they are represented in the tribunal. My personal view Mr. Speaker Sir, is that a tribunal is simply a body to adjudicate, establish facts and come up with rulings in much the same way as a legitimate court will listen to facts. The accused would present their case, the State would present its case, and then the adjudicating body considers the facts and churns out a verdict. It is not possible to interpret and extrapolate regional balance into every other body.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a tribunal say of three people cannot possibly represent 10 provinces. It would mean the Hon. Minister appointing 10 tribunal members; that would not be practical. Rather geographic balance means in those institutions where it is practical to do so; otherwise one would say we should have 10 magistrates to look at one case to reflect regional balance. That is an extreme case of interpreting regional balance.
The next issue - Hon. Cross indicated that there is no independence as proposed in the Bill. Mr. Speaker Sir, quite to the contrary, there can be no other way to guarantee independence than what is proposed in here.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: On a point of order. I have been sitting and listening very intently and I am just wondering whether the Hon. Member is trying to assist the Minister in his response when he comes forward. I think it is not his role – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – can I be protected Mr. Speaker.
It is not his role to explain one speech after the other. It is the work of the Minister in his response, why is he usurping the Minister’s powers?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Overruled, Hon. Member.
HON. DR. KEREKE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The issue of
independence is well represented in the draft as proposed, for two reasons. The first one is that the Hon. Minister, is in no way going to hand pick individuals of his liking but rather, the law society of Zimbabwe has got its own processes. The Zimbabwe Law Society is a creature of statutes that emerged from this Parliament. It is not a creature proposed to becoming from what the Hon. Minister is proposing.
It is very critical for us to understand what the Zimbabwe Law Society is and what they do. Pre-independence 1975 there -about, that is when they constituted the bar which was then restructured in early 1981 there about. Every practicing lawyer in the land is a member of this body and it is created by statutes. Given that here the tribunal is going to be a quasi judicial arm in so far as adjudicating over disputes of this nature is concerned, it is important that the Chairpersons are drawn from the collectivity of the pool of legal minds in Zimbabwe. The governance of the Zimbabwe law Society is such that they would be the best in the country for that matter, to know which bodies, which persons, which specific skills to assign for a given challenging issue at a given local authority.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I also need to mention that the entirely of our country’s judicial services - rather judiciary from regional magistrates to high courts to labour courts right to the apex institution, the Constitutional Court, originate from the Law Society membership. So, the issue of independence, I think that side is well taken care of.
Secondly, the issue concerning Public Service Commission is intended to bring the practical balance outside legal considerations. The Bill contemplates that two persons who have deep knowledge of local governance are also part of the tribunal so that the legal side and the practical side are blend together.
So, I want to end Mr. Speaker, by saying the Bill goes a step further to propose that the Hon. Minister is given an independent pool from which he selects the nominations - from the Zimbabwe Law Society, the Public Service Commission and this enables the independence. The issue about remuneration, all of us here are remunerated from a common port of Government and we are operating as an independent Parliament though we derive our salaries from the Salaries Service Bureau (SSB). Independence does not mean you are not paid or that you work on a pro bono basis. I thank you, Mr. Speaker
Sir and I support the Bill.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker …
HON. MUKUPE: Mr. Speaker on a point of order, could you just clarify for us how many times you are allowed to debate on the same motion. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA):
Order, order I cannot hear what he is saying Hon. Members, could you come again Hon. Member?
HON. MUKUPE: Could you clarify for us how many times a Member is allowed to debate on a motion because Hon. Maridadi actually debated on the same motion yesterday. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order he has not
debated. I am informed Hon. Maridadi has not debated.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I wish to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Local Government for the very balanced report which captured views from a diversity across the spectrum of our society although there are issues that could have been done better like in Matabeleland North and South. The Portfolio Committee only went there after concerns had been raised.
I want to start my debate by saying that Hon. Minister, the Bill is going to sail through and there is no question about that. The Bill will sail through because Bills have been brought to this House, debated and people seated on your right hand-side of the House have supported the Bill whereas people seated on the left hand-side of the House have objected to Bills. Amendments have been brought, put into that Bill and Bills have sailed through and gone to the President for Presidential assent and have become law. Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the Hon. Minister that the Bill is going to sail through whether people on the left hand-side of the House say yes or no, the Bill will still sail through. I will tell you why I say that.
Mr. Speaker, a man who is 6 ft. 2 and weighs 85 kilogramme, goes out there in Mabvuku, takes a five year old and has sex with that five year old without her consent – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – The rapist has succeeded in raping the five year old but that is not consensual sex but rape. Rape will remain rape - whether you get arrested, convicted or get away with it, rape will remain rape – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] –
The Hon. Minister has brought this Bill. It reminds me when I was a lot younger and following proceedings of this House. One Minister, I do not remember who it was who brought a Bill before this House. The Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) was then the late Dr. Zvobgo, an intelligent legal mind trained at Harvard. He said, “Minister, the reason we are having problems with your Bill is that you did not put it neatly. You should have put your Bill more neatly and smart. The Hon. Minister should have been smarter and should have put his Bill more neatly, otherwise we would not have spent two days debating issues of process and housekeeping issues.
I urge the Hon. Minister in future - this side of the House is in the minority and can make all the noise we want. A Bill will still sail through if it is sponsored by a Minister. The Minister’s duty is to make sure that he brings things that are clearly and neatly packaged so that we do not waste tax-payer’s money. We are representing people here, we do not come here to make noise but come to pass laws and the Minister must be smart – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Mr. Speaker, local authorities, municipalities and State-owned enterprises are at the core-face of Government service delivery. People talk to Government through local authorities and State enterprises and it is imperative that they be run properly. I totally agree with the Minister that the mischief of corruption in local authorities must be dealt with. I am holding this book by the Comptroller and Auditor-General of Zimbabwe which talks about corruption. All these issues of corruption must be dealt with and not only in local authorities.
Mr. Speaker, allow me to do this; painstakingly I have taken a toothcomb and gone through this report. What I have produced is this three paged document which talks about corruption in Government ministries including the Ministry that is headed by the Hon. Minister I will tell you of the corruption in your Ministry Hon. Minister. Here we go Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing, payment made amounting to $11 000 545.00 by Treasury on behalf of the Ministry without supporting documents and this is on Page 181 of the Comptroller and Auditor-General’s report. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - I am dealing with issues of corruption.
Mr. Speaker, no deal note – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order less noise in the House Hon. Members.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, Page 188 of this same
document says that no deal note or investment certificate on investments amounting to $2 000 000.00 and that Ministry is directly under the
Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
The third issue, Mr. Speaker, – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] - I will contextualize it and it is absence of property register. Non submission of valuation certificates, and this is on Pages
200, 206 and 2007, I so submit.
I will go to the other issues. I said earlier, like most of the speakers, that local authorities and State owned enterprises are at the core-face of Government service delivery. Section 301 of our
Constitution talks about allocation of State revenue. For local authorities to operate effectively, Government must allocate a minimum of 5%, so it could be anything above 5%. - a minimum of 5% to local authorities, but that has not been done.
Mr. Speaker, those that know business say that 30% or revenue must go towards recurrent expenditure and that includes salaries; 70% must go to capital. In local authorities, Harare City for example, 80% goes towards recurrent expenditure and mostly salaries. You are not going to be able to sort that out because Government itself, its budget is $4 billion. More than $3.6 billion of that money goes towards recurrent expenditure which is mostly salaries. How do you sort out local authorities when you have failed to sort out the national Government? When you are dealing with a problem – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear,
hear.] – I am talking about local authorities, it is like going into a household. If there is a problem in the house of drunkenness, and the father comes home drunk, the son who is 18 years comes home drunk, you must first deal with the father. This is because in Shona vanoti panotsika remberi ndopanotsika reshure. You deal with the father and then you deal with the son. You do not deal with the son because the son is not in charge of the household.
So, let us deal with corruption in Government - enough of that Mr. Speaker. I told you that I went through this document with a toothbrush. I want to let you know that in this document that I extrapolated from this report, with Government Ministries or to with accounting officers in our Government, 12 of them - including the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, Ministry of Agriculture, Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate Change, all of them have been implicated in corruption.
Mr. Speaker, you cannot want to deal with corruption of the Councillor who has taken US$1 500.00 in sitting allowances when you fail to deal with a Permanent Secretary who has made US$5 million to disappear. That is a travesty of justice, –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- local authorities, Government’s local debt, because
Government’s debt is in two parts. There is local debt and there is international debt. Government debt is about US$1.3 billion. Some of that money was borrowed from local authorities like City of Harare and City of Bulawayo, and I will tell you when that money was borrowed.
Mr. Speaker, when war veterans wanted their gratuities, the Minister of Finance then was Dr. H. Murerwa. Dr. Murerwa was asked by the President to disburse $50 000.00 each to war veterans. His response was that Your Excellency, there is no money and the President said, find it. He went to local authorities to borrow that money. Most of that money has not been returned and that is why most local authorities are limping. I will leave that aside.
Just before the elections in 2013, there was a directive by the
Minister of Local Government, the predecessor of the current Minister. He ordered local authorities to scrap all monies owed to local authorities by people out there. In a stroke of a pen Mr. Speaker, Harare City
Council lost US$600 million in revenue. It will take Harare City Council an entire generation. It will take deliberate action by the Minister and deliberate action by the Government to ensure that City of Harare starts operating again.
This Bill that has been brought by the Minister, as all other members have said, this Constitution came into being in 2013. As Members of Parliament, we have been singing and shouting at the top of our voices, getting purple in the face saying Hon. Ministers should bring Bills to Parliament to align laws and one area that we should have dealt with is the area of devolution. As was said by one speaker, the area of devolution speaks to the unity or lack thereof in this country. Without dealing with the issue of devolution, we have not dealt with issues of unity.
Mr. Speaker, the issue of devolution is more important than all the other issues that this Government can think about. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - I am speaking like this because I have the advantage of having a Ndebele mother and I know exactly how she felt about the issue of devolution. She always told me that Matabeleland lagged behind in development because Government took a deliberate policy to sideline Matabeleland North and South. So, that is the mischief that the Minister must deal with. The mischief of devolution and the mischief of bringing development to Matabeleland North and Matabeleland South, and the Minister cannot come and tell us that he wants to deal with the issue of corruption...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Less
noise in the House Hon. Members.
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Local
Government is a very hard working man and I have a lot of respect for him. But, on this one Minister, you are exerting your energy on the wrong things. This Bill is going to pass as I said, and it is going to be victory for the Minister. Minister you can go and bungee jump and celebrate all you want, but it will be an empty victory. It is like victory to a person who says I have had good sex with a five year old, and they have not been arrested.
In conclusion, this country belongs to 14 million people, and it does not belong to one person. Fourteen million people, most of them represented by Hon. Members across the divide. People have said we want to be consulted. Minister you must consult widely. I know you have ambitions to become President of this country one day, but Minister, you cannot become President of a whole country if you fail to bring a clean Bill. I am not insulting the Minister. Every one of us here can be President. You must be 40 years old, a Zimbabwean and you must be literate. That is what the Constitution says and the Minister qualifies. He is 40 years old, literate and he has ambitions. That is why he is going around making this Bill. He has ambitions. I rest my case. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee for the report that she gave us and in my contribution, I want to bring to the attention of the Hon. Members to the provisions of the Constitution that speaks about separation of powers. Our Constitution dictates that there be separation of powers between the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. If you go into the Constitution, it will clearly spell out the tiers of
Government on Chapter One as the National Government, the Provincial and Metropolitan Councils, local authorities, urban and rural. So it states that this is part of the Executive.
In saying this, the Constitution on Section 264 speaks about devolution. Allow me Mr. Speaker to read what the Constitution says in Section 264 (1). It says whenever appropriate, I want to underline the word appropriate, governmental powers and responsibilities must be devolved to Provincial and Metropolitan Councils and local authorities which are competent to carry out those responsibilities efficiently and effectively.
In the beginning I said that the Executive authority is in Central Government, provincial councils and local authorities. On devolution, it is clear that in doing devolution, there are certain things that have to be taken into consideration and having said that, I want to go to Section 278 which speaks about the removal of Chairpersons. It says that in 278 (1), Mr. Speaker Sir, ‘The seat of mayor, chairperson or councillor of a local authority becomes vacant in circumstances set out in Section 129. If you go to Section 129, it talks about the tenure of seat of Member of
Parliament and (f) says ‘if, without the leave of the Speaker or the President of the Senate’, If you go to Section 278, it says ‘wherever you refer to the Speaker or President of the Senate, in Section 125 you substitute that with ‘Minister’’.
In other words these Sections are acknowledging the role of the Minister in whatever the local authorities are doing. So, when we talk about the removal of councillors and you remove the Minister from that removal process, you are not complying with the Constitution. So, I want to applaud the Minister for bringing the Bill. He is empowered by the very Constitution that we are saying we should uphold because it says when you talk about the removal of a councillor, you go to the
Sections that speak about the removal of MPs and you substitute the Speaker with the Minister. I have referred to the tiers of Government in my earlier presentation to say that you cannot divorce local authorities from Central Government. They are part of Central Government and when we speak about devolution, it speaks about where there is competence and they can carry out the duties efficiently. Those Hon. Members who are doing law know that there are certain rights which are progressive rights. If you look at the Constitution, it is talking about certain provisions being met. In other words it is not a provision that you can work up and say all of a sudden there has to be devolution. There are certain benchmarks that have to be met by the Executive to say that this particular local authority meets the specification that require that the full devolution has to be allowed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to commend the Minister as Hon. Dr. Kereke said, he spoke like a learned colleague, in that he articulated certain provisions and I cannot articulate them any better, but I want to applaud the Minister for bringing the Bill. It is better late than never. I thank you.
HON. MUDEREDZWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir
for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. Let me first
start by thanking the Minister for bringing this Local Government Laws Amendment Bill to Parliament. In fact, I am part of the Committee that went across the country soliciting for information on the Bill. But, like what our report has highlighted, the Bill that we were working with is the first draft and this first draft had issues that we were also in dispute with. There was an importation of the Judicial Service Commission and this is one of the issues that we were concerned with.
The views of the public came out as a result of such importations. Mr. Speaker Sir, let me say that members of the public were not properly informed about the Bill and their views were also not informed. When we saw the Second Draft of the Bill, which imported the Law Society of Zimbabwe as a function and the Civil Service Commission as a function, we noted that the two issues that were cardinal, the fact that the Minister was being given too many powers, and the second one that the Tribunal might not be independent, were satisfied. So, at the end of the day we have noted that the Bill as amended by the Minister is in proper order, it has been well couched. Personally, as a Member of Parliament for my Constituency, I support this Bill and I would like to thank the Minister.
I thank you.
HON. SAVANHU: Hon. Speaker, I want to contribute to this very important Bill by the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National housing, Hon. Kasukuwere. I want to refer this House to
Section 119 (2) of the Constitution which says, ‘Parliament has power to ensure that the provisions of the Constitution are upheld and that the State and all institutions and agencies of Government at every level act constitutionally and in the national interest’. So, this is what the Minister of Local Government has done.
If you go to Section 278, the Minister of Local Government, Public
Works and National Housing is in compliance of that Section.
Subsection 2 states, ‘An Act of Parliament must provide the establishment of an independent tribunal to exercise the function of removing from office mayors, chairpersons and councillors’, but on the grounds that are stipulated here – that of gross incompetence, abuse of office, and inability to perform the function of that office. So Mr.
Speaker Sir, I want to support the Bill. I want to say that any delay of passing this Bill is a direct encouragement and creation of fertile ground for corruption and abuse of office in the local authorities and abuse of office by public officers having held those positions without any code of conduct.
Mr. Speaker Sir, even in Industry and Commerce, they have codes of conduct to govern the operations of their companies. Section 9 of the
Constitution states that, “the State must adopt and implement policies and legislation to develop efficiency, competence, accountability and transparency.” So, the Hon. Minister of Local Government, Public
Works and National Housing has complied with the sections of the Constitution. I support that the Bill be passed without any amendment.
I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. ZVIDZAI: Mr. Speaker ,I wish to thank you for this opportunity to speak on this Bill. I would like to say from the onset that the passing of this Bill today as will happen, is one of the saddest things that will happen to our local governance here. This Bill is very much anti-the people of Zimbabwe. This Bill today, the only person who will celebrate, he has walked out; is the Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. He has sort to have as much power as possible in the administration and control of local authorities and it is very sad.
It is said because power corrupts, he has got power already, he is allowed to coordinate local authorities and provincial councils, and he has got power. He seeks to have absolute powers through the architecture of this particular Bill. The Constitution requires an independence tribunal so that we can dilute the power of the Minister.
Vamwe vachapembera n’anga inobata mai muno umu.
Mr. Speaker, what does the Minister want to do with all this power? He wants to speedily stampede us into concluding this so that he can line up his pockets because absolute power corrupts. I have got personal experience in this particular sector. When the Minister demands for so much power so that he can dismiss Mayors and replace with his own appointed Commissions, it is because he wants to use those Commissions for corrupt purposes to loot, to steal and enjoy improperly from the sweat of the people of Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister has laboured to say I want to deal with corruption but I want to tell you this. What the Minister wants to do is to centralise corruption; that is what the Minister is seeking to do. He seeks to own the totality of corruption in all the local authorities in this country. He wants to make sure that he has got a say in all the tenders in Harare and to make sure that he can take charge of Easy Park and line up his pockets. He wants all the aluminium sulphate business in Harare, we wants all the line business in Harare. He is actually busy preparing himself to the biggest tender entrepreneur in this country and we must not allow that. The people of Zimbabwe in their totality across the political divide must know that this is what the Minister is trying to do. The Minister wants to make sure that he goes to Bikita and dictates how the tenders for the road from Mukaro to Chikuku will be done and who does it and it will be him doing that.
Mr. Speaker, while colleagues might celebrate that they are getting their way through this Bill, the people of Zimbabwe in Mt Darwin should frown upon the Minister for refusing to put together a law that will entitle them to 5% of the national budget, this is what he must be stuck with. How do you take money from central Government to the people, he is failing to see the importance of that. He would be rather be looking at how to chase around...
HON. KEREKE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA):
What is your point of order?
HON. KEREKE: Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order is that it is common cause that when a member is debating, you cannot make scurrilous criminal allegations on another member or an Hon. Minister. The Hon. Member has made very disturbing statements that are not parliamentary to say the Minister wants to centralise power to line up his pockets through corruption – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Speaker Sir, allow me to be heard.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA):
Order Hon. Members.
HON. KEREKE: Freedom of speech, the right to free speech does not allow a member to trample on the rights of another. That is not the Constitution. So the Hon. Member must withdraw his obtuse statement.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, there is
an allegation that you allege that the Minister would want to centralise corruption. I think that is unparliamentary can you withdraw that statement.
HON. ZVIDZAI: I withdraw my statement Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to emphasise that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, less noise in the
House, Hon. Members.
HON. ZVIDZAI: Mr. Speaker, a people centred Bill would have dealt with the facilitation so that local authorities throughout the country would enjoy. For this past budget, they would have allotted between themselves or among themselves something like US$200m. They are being denied this by the Minister not dealing with the issues of devolution. So, the issues of devolution are not academic, they are real issues, they are food they are bread and butter issues for the people out there. The Minister has to deal with those as a matter of urgency. Mr. Speaker, I also want to talk to issues of process and particularly deal with the Parliamentary Legal Committee and think that as a House we must frown upon professionals who are required to exercise their professional quality for the benefit of the nation and yet they forget about the professionalism and deal with political expedience. The three members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee who believe that they do not understand what is independent, Mr. Speaker, I attempted to understand the dictionary meaning of independent and it means people being able to make a decision without due influence. In this particular case, the way this tribunal is architectured by the Minister leaves very little to be connected with independence. The Minister wants to appoint the chairperson. He wants to dismiss the chairperson at his will. He wants to determine the remuneration. He wants to do so many things that will compromise the independence of this tribunal. Why does he want that? I fear to get back to where I was. There certainly is an interest which is not related to the people of Zimbabwe in this particular approach.
The Parliamentary Legal Committee has failed dismally to advise this House appropriately and I know the three of them are all people who are facing some challenges in their party. I am sure they did what they did to make sure that the Commissar does not affect their ability. They are compromised. They should have recused themselves even from this process. It is very sad.
If you look at the Bill, you will also notice that it is so fatally incomplete. You do not understand whether there is still staff in that
Ministry. You do not understand whether there is still a lawyer in that
Ministry. I forgive the Minister and I believe he is busy trying to be learned. For example, in Gweru, the Minister went out there and fired everybody and such an eventuality can happen again. Do we have provisions in the Bill to say in the eventuality of him as he is likely going to do fire, the whole of Mutare, Bulawayo and what will happen? It is sad. This Bill needs to be beefed up so that we do not end up with a vacuum. In Gweru, we have a vacuum already because the Minister has illegally forced a commission which is not allowed at law. The Minister is behaving very dangerously.
Madam Speaker, I have recommendations particularly around the issue of the independent tribunal. I have got no quarrel whatsoever with respect to what the Minister should be able to do as he manages his purview but let us respect the Constitution. Let us respect the supreme law of the land. This is what three million Zimbabwean people said they want, a devolved state, an independent tribunal and how do you measure. The Minister should not be able at all to remove any member of the tribunal once constituted. The Minister should not be anywhere near the decisions of who would be in that tribunal. He must sit in Mukwati Building while it is happening in Mutare, very far away from his influences for it to be independent.
There is another absurdity in that Bill. The Minister requires that if the tribunal finds the mayor liable for removal and recommends removal, if they do not remove the mayor, then the tribunal will be required to pay. The council will say to the tribunal, you have done this process, and we have paid you but we need a refund. This in fact is trying to force the tribunal to pre-decide what the tribunal should do – that the end result must be the firing of the councillor or mayor.
Lastly, what the Minister is trying to do is to try to create a relationship between the three spheres of Government, namely central Government, provincial councils and the local authorities. That is what he attempts to do but he completely forgets that the relationship is tripartite. It is not a relationship only between central Government and local authorities. It has got to be a relationship between all spheres of Government, central Government, provincial councils and local authorities. He fails to do that. What will be the relationship between the local authority and the provincial council for example as these cases of impropriety happens? Does the provincial council have a role? Why is the Minister oblivious of the existence of that additional tier of Government which has got a role to play?
In view of these contributions I have made, I think this House must agree that this is a very bad law. It is an ugly law. It has never happened in this House that people will haggle and argue and shout at each other and get divided, we are more divided now than when we got in here. Thanks to this very ugly, unlawful, unconstitutional, inhumane piece of nonsense.
*HON. MAHOKA: Let me start by thanking the mover of this Bill and I am very grateful because when you look at people on both sides of the House, they are people who have been consulting and referencing from their Constitutions since afternoon and the aim is for the development of our country, Zimbabwe. This is really what is necessary in the development of the country. Hon. Members have managed to stay up to this time because they want to contribute to the development of their country.
I am also glad to say that both sides of the House are in agreement on the progress which will be brought by this Bill and this is shown by the way they are debating. My plea is that whatever the two sides have said, they have come to the agreement that this is an excellent piece of legislation. Madam Speaker, I have never seen such a situation whereby Members on both sides of the House agree that this is a nice Bill. The reason why they are all saying it is a good Bill, it is because it is fighting corruption.
*HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order. I do not know why Hon. Mahoka is saying we are in agreement. Is she talking on behalf of the whole House or her particular party.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mahoka is simply
introducing her debate and she will clarify as we go along. Madam Speaker, before you came in when you were out, people understood what we were saying. We are saying, when the previous Speaker was on the Chair, he understood and was in agreement with the proceedings of debate in this House. We are asking you, Madam Speaker, not to change and continue from where he left off because Hon. Mahoka is saying we are in agreement - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You have heard what she has said and yet you are saying that she is still to make her point - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, Hon. Member, please
listen. The Hon. Member is just introducing a statement or is still making her introduction and I interfere, is that okay - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MUNENGAMI: The statement that she has just said is wrong. She was saying something which is not true and it is your duty as the Speaker, to correct that. That is why when someone says something wrong, you always say withdraw your statement, even before that person has finished.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are
saying what was happening before I was here and now, what I am telling you is that, I will only take into account and be accountable to what has been said during my presence. What was said before me, I did not hear.
I thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. The issue that we are discussing is on corruption. The majority of us have agreed that we do not want corruption. The majority of the Members here are not for corruption. So, the majority is happy about this law that is being amended.
The law is not crafted by political parties. The Members of
Parliament that are here, in terms of the quorum, craft the laws. I have observed what has happened here Madam Speaker, and I have observed that the Members of Parliament are happy with the law which is being proposed because it intends to remedy the mischief of corruption.
Minister, I am quite grateful that you have clearly looked at issues and you have shown that you do not tolerate corruption. We have all agreed that corruption is a bad cancer which should be eradicated. I have observed that the majority of the members who are still here this evening shows that their intention is to pass laws that enable Zimbabwe to prosper. We should be grateful for that.
Hon. Maridadi spoke very well on the issue of corruption …-
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
*HON. MAHOKA: He supported it very well because corruption should be eradicated - [AN HON. MEMBER: Musadaro Chirandu.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are allowed to make
reference. I am the Honourable Presiding Officer, not Chirandu -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. MAHOKA: Madam Speaker, every member was elected
to represent their constituency, hence everyone perused to see if there were omissions by the Minister so that maybe, there may be additions. The majority are in agreement. It has been observed that the law, as crafted by the Minister, was well done. Thank you very much for bringing such a Bill. We are happy about such a Bill.
Madam Speaker, we should just ensure that we get to the bottom of this and conclude this matter. I do not believe that after I have finished speaking, not more than three or so members will speak. I say so because the majority of the members have already spoken on this Bill. What has pleased me, Madam Speaker, is that the majority of the speakers who have spoken when these television crews were here - well, if I show you the messages that are coming from the other side, I have messages to show that they are very happy.
They have sent a message to show and express their gratitude that what the Minister has done is a good thing because the Minister has thought of eradicating corruption. Minister, we thank you. You have decided that Zimbabwe should rise from the ashes. These are the bread and butter issues that the Hon. Member was talking about. Our children are going to be well fed. Well done Minister. Kudos to you.
Madam Speaker, I am grateful because such things, such excellence in performance is rare. Let me thank the President, His Excellency Cde. Mugabe who rightfully chose Ministers. The President did very well and I would like to congratulate him for that…- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – …because the Bill that has been brought to Parliament has let people spend the whole evening here with a view to take Zimbabwe further and that it be prosperous.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. We thank Hon. Mahoka for her words that the President, Cde. Mugabe did well by appointing Ministers. Is she saying that, when she once said that the Vice President is a duck, she was lying in line with the words that she has spoken today - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
–
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Member, what you have said is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the debate.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the protection. Let me conclude by saying that the Hon. Members who are in here, I thank them for this Bill that has been passed - well done. Such
Bills should come to Parliament. We should spend our evenings here. That is why we were elected by our electorate to come here and to ensure that we make laws for the good governance of Zimbabwe. I thank you for everything that you have contributed and lastly, I thank the Minister and urge him to remain steadfast so that Zimbabwe can scale dizzy heights. Whilst others demonise us, Zimbabwe will be moving forward. I thank you Minister.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon. Speaker, I am not ashamed to stand before this august House and congratulate the Hon. Minister for bringing this Bill to this House. I am also not ashamed, Hon. Speaker, to stand up and support this Bill. This is one of those Bills that have come before this august House which has generated a lot of interest. Apart from generating a lot of interesting, I have become very suspicious Madam Speaker, to note that …- [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we hear the Hon.
Member who is debating.
HON. MANDIPAKA: There are others from the opposite side…
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, please lower down
your whispers, we want to hear the debate.
HON. MANDIPAKA: I will retake it Hon. Speaker. I am saying, this is one of such Bills that have come before Parliament and has generated a lot of interest. On the same note, it has unsettled and disturbed the minds of those in the Opposition - I do not know why. Madam Speaker, Hon. Maridadi got it right when he said this is a Bill that is going to sail through. Why did he say that? He understands the old adage and even current, that the minority might have something to say but the majority will have its way – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Madam Speaker, allow me to quote Section 279 of the Constitution which talks about the procedure of local authorities. The Section reads;
“An Act of Parliament must provide for the procedure to be followed by councils of local authorities.” The Hon. Minister has basically done that. He has brought a Bill that has to do with procedures to be followed by councils and local authorities. Madam Speaker, we in the majority are not disturbed by the fact that the Minister should superintend over local authorities, councils and municipalities. I think it is in order that he does that. It is within his purview as provided for by the laws of the land.
However, Madam Speaker, I would like to differ a little bit with the observation made by Hon. Cross in his debate this morning – [AN HON. MEMBER: Tambosita mangwanani here.] – He gave an example of London. It is unfortunate that he can bring an example of our erstwhile colonizers who were not even transparent in the running of the affairs of these local authorities. Madam Speaker, you will also note that Hon. Cross talked about South Africa when he talked about portraits, maybe of mayors or councillors in various localities in South Africa. However, if you look at what is happening in South Africa today, we have a lot of upheavals, fighting going on in these various local authorities. Zimbabwe cannot emulate violence; that is why we are putting legislation so that we have sanity in our municipalities
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. Madam Speaker, I find it repugnant and it pains me a lot that some people speak about colonizers yet they were serving in Selous Scouts and
Pfumorevanhu. I find it very painful. If you have a tainted past…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No point of order Hon.
Member.
HON. MANDIPAKA: It is unfortunate Madam Speaker. He will seek to use all types of propaganda - that is not going to work. I am going to tell the truth. Hon. Cross cannot give us that example because it was bad – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, we
have to listen to what he is saying.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Madam Speaker, it is also unfortunate to note that our counterparts in this august House, more-so from the Opposition made frantic efforts from the very beginning to force a rejection of a Non-Adverse Report. We were following. They also made a bid to stop this debate. That causes me to have a suspicion. Madam Speaker, there is a wrong notion from our brothers and sisters in the Opposition that this Bill relates to a particular personality. This Bill is intended for the generality of Zimbabweans and not a particular person – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Madam Speaker, once
again, this Bill – it is unfortunate, I heard that it is intended to dismiss, suspend or otherwise expel those corrupt elements.
Interestingly Madam Speaker, it is the Opposition that speaks loud about corruption. When we make laws that would bring sanity in our local authorities, it is the same Opposition which speaks loud, it is unfortunate. Madam Speaker, let me state that the ills and rot in local authorities have to come to an end and this can happen when we have pieces of legislation where our Ministers are empowered to deal with rot and corrupt elements. This is such a Bill that we want see thriving and that the Hon. Minister should be able to superintend over all local authorities, municipalities and councils. It is unfortunate if our brothers and sisters in the Opposition have some of their members who will be caught in the web. I thank you.
*HON. CHIDARIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The big
fish are caught towards the evening. I would want to thank my colleagues on this part of the House for standing resolute after they had realised that this Bill has loopholes and needed to be perfected. I do not disagree that the Minister should have brought the Bill. The point that we make is that, we have observed that the Bill that has been brought needs fine-tuning here and there.
It is a pity that the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) rigged. They excluded members of the PLC Committee and sat on their own, it is shameful. When we do Parliament business, it should be transparent and show that it is in line with our wishes as Parliamentarians. Thirty one years ago, the late Patrick Kombayi was suspended as Mayor of Gweru. Thirty one years and above after have lapsed, his son is now being suspended as Mayor of Gweru. Hon. Minister, we urge you to ensure that 17 persons cannot be corrupted over a single issue, I do not think so.
Next time when you appoint a Commission, we do not want to hear that you are either related to them through marriage or that you come from the same communal area. As Members of Parliament, we abhor such activities. We want you to show that you do not countenance corruption at all in the appointment of members of the tribunal. If it were to be done that way, it would be better. True, I heard one Hon. Member saying that you have no power to suspend, which is incorrect. I recall that Mayor Tawengwa was suspended as Mayor of the City of
Harare. You have just tried to make sure that you brighten your case.
Be that as it were, Hon. Minister, we urge you to ensure that there should not be too much interference by the Executive on the operation of local councils. If this Bill is passed, we expect you not to interfere with the operations of the councils so that the operations are good. We have provincial councils; I heard an Hon. Member saying that they passed it for expediency’s sake. We had provincial councils so that Members of Parliament are also members of those councils, so that they assist the Local Government in running the functions of these municipalities. This is what devolution is all about. There should be sufficient funding so that the provincial councils become operational. This will then enhance our governance systems.
You have left out something in this Bill which I anticipated that you should look at. Government should pay its debts to the local councils. Failure by the Government to pay its debts is causing lack of proper service delivery. Government is not paying for services rendered for refuse collection, water, et cetera. Government should not be exonerated for its failure to service debts. Countrywide, you observe that local councils are failing to give service delivery due to the fact that Government is not paying them.
When you appoint an independent tribunal, I have serious problems in finding out what an independent tribunal is all about. How can an independent tribunal report to a Minister? Independent commissions that we have in the Constitution are appointed by the President after a certain process. It is very easy that the President of a country can be impartial and not a Minister. This is because he represents a single constituency in Mt Darwin, but the President represents the entire country.
We will make a lot of noise but we know that eventually it will carry the day and it will be passed. I ask you as a nephew to Nehoreka to look into these issues so that there be an independent tribunal. I believe that the amendment that ushered in the law society makes sense. I had problems with what was initially intended when the Judicial Services Commission was said to be impartial. I have difficulties with that, if it is the law society I am agreeable. What I am apprehensive of Minister is that the complaint will have come from you, and you are the one who would have instigated the investigations, then you appoint a tribunal. I believe you have heard my concerns and would also want to believe that the experience that we shared in the last two days showed you that we are not here as the MDC T to rubber stamp such decisions. I thank my colleagues on this side of the House for standing firm. I thank you.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
would also want to add my voice to the debate on this Bill. Madam Speaker, what has happened from last week, and in particular over the last two days reminds me of what happened some years ago when an author by the name Salman Rushdie wrote a book which was entitled
Satanic Verses. After writing that book, there was consternation in the Moslem world to the extent that I think I think that it was the Ayatollah of Iran who issued a fatwa for Salman Rushdie to be killed.
What it reminds me Madam Speaker is that in this country, during the course of the public hearings, we had a lot of disturbances which happened at some of the public hearings. My understanding is that when the public hearing started in various centres, they were fairly peaceful. The thrust of the submissions were very clear that the majority of the participants were against the Bill. It was only when that realisation
came to pass that when it came to the public hearing at the Harare International Conference Centre (HICC), we had a lot of commotion followed by the public hearing in Highfield.
What is clear Madam Speaker is that according to most people in this country, the perceptions of the majority of the people who participated in the hearings are that this Bill is akin to the satanic verses; it is similar to the Satanic Verses in terms of the commotion that it has caused, not just at the public hearings, but even what has transpired in this august House. It really shows that there is something very seriously wrong with the Bill in question.
Madam Speaker, I am now going to the substance of the actual Bill. When you look at the memorandum to that Bill which I am going to go over, it states that the purpose of this Bill is to amend the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act so as to align certain provisions of those Acts with Section 278(2)(3) of the Constitution. It then goes on to lay out the provisions of those subsections. What the people of Zimbabwe have found problematic with that memorandum is
that it is narrow in its scope.
When you look at the Constitution itself, a lot of the speakers who have spoken before me have made reference to the provisions of Chapter 14 which deals with devolution. When you go to the actual Constitution Madam Speaker, you find that there are many sections that actually deal with devolution, starting from Section 264. Those sections are very comprehensive; they run from Sections 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269,
270, 271, 272, 273 and it goes to the Third Part dealing with Urban Local Authorities, up to the last section which is Section 279.
What a lot of people find objectionable Madam Speaker is that the Hon. Minister has chosen to leave out all those provisions of the Constitution which deal with local authorities and devolution and just concentrate on one particular section, which is Section 278. It is very unfortunate. Others who have spoken before me have mentioned that the Hon. Minister has had ample time to deal with the provisions of the
Constitution in trying to align all the Acts to the Constitution.
I am aware that the Hon. Minister’s predecessor had consultations on a draft Local Government Bill. Those consultations were quite extensive and a lot of submissions were made in 2014. There was a workshop at Rainbow Towers where members of the public, various residents associations, specifically mentioned issues and areas which were supposed to be dealt with. However, the Ministry and I understand that the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry, Mr. George Mlilo was present and is still the Permanent Secretary in that Ministry. Therefore, I would have assumed that the Ministry has got some institutional memory so that even when there was a change of Minister from Hon. Chombo to Hon. Kasukuwere, that institutional memory was going to assist the Minister so that he would have come before us with a comprehensive amendment to the Act in question so that we deal with these issues once and for all.
We on this side of the House, strenuously object to the piecemeal approach which the Minister is going about in terms of the amendment to the two Acts. We will not accept that piecemeal approach. We want a holistic approach whereby all the provisions of the Constitution are adhered to. Speaking on behalf of the people that we represent and the various persons who participated in the public hearings, we cannot allow this to happen. The Hon. Members who have already spoken before me have already alluded to the fact that we are now into our fourth year after the adoption of the new Constitution and we cannot understand why the Ministry which has been seized with those matters has not come before us with comprehensive amendments to all the provisions in the various Acts which are not in conformity with the provisions of the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker, we believe that there is no excuse. If, as I intimated earlier on, if the Hon. Minister and his predecessor were sleeping on the job, it is not our fault. They should have come up with a holistic approach and comprehensive amendments and we would have been supportive of this Bill, if that Bill had been comprehensive, encompassing all the aspects which have got to be dealt with - we would have been in support of the Bill.
Our suspicion and it is a reasonable suspicion is that the reason why this Bill is being brought at this point in time is to deal with the issues of mayors and councillors who the Minister wants to get rid of. Other Hon. Members have already spoken about the 18 councillors who were suspended in Gweru. At least I find it very difficult to fathom that all the councilors in Gweru would be corrupt. All 18 of them, I find that very astounding. At the end of the day, the Hon. Members who have already spoken before me have mentioned that the Minister lost in court, not once but- twice. He has noted an appeal to the Supreme Court, today it is now on public record that the Minister has lost again in the case of Mayor Manyenyeni. A ruling was handed down by Justice Lavender Makoni and Justice Lavender Makoni as I understand it made a ruling that firstly the suspension of Mayor Manyenyenyi was invalid. I understand that order also speaks to the fact that the Minister cannot again suspend the Mayor of Harare. As a matter of fact, one of the arguments was that the Minister was suspending installments.
The allegations which were the subject of the second suspension were well known to the Minister at the time of the first suspension but he chose to leave them aside so that he can then invoke them at a later stage. I understand Madam Speaker, in upholding the application of Mayor Manyenyeni, the Minister was ordered to pay costs and those costs are not going to come from the Minister’s pocket but from the tax payer’s money. We cannot allow a situation where the Hon. Minister fights cases where he has got no prospects of success, knowing full well that even if he loses, it is not going to cost him personally. I believe that the Hon. Minister should be responsible enough to appreciate that when we deal with matters of governance, we must uphold our very own Constitution which deals with issues of good governance.
Going now to the other issues of constitutionality, when it comes to the appointment of a tribunal, the Constitution is very clear that this must be an independent tribunal. Before I go to that, let us look at the issue of suspension. I want to highlight this fact to the Hon. Minister that when you look at the issue dealing with judges, I just want to make an analogy; the framers of our Constitution saw it fit to make adequate provisions which actually detailed what has to happen when charges of misconduct have been laid against an hon. judge. Those provisions are very clear that only when a Tribunal has been appointed, that is only when a judge is suspended by operation of law. If the framers of the Constitution wanted to give the Minister similar powers, they would have been enshrined in the Constitution.
Madam Speaker, the reason why in terms of Section 159 the procedures and processes relating to the suspension of judges and their removal from office were elaborately laid out was because the framers of the Constitution were cognisant that this power must be spelt out in the Constitution. The fact that this power was not spelt out in the Constitution leads me to one inescapable conclusion and that is that the framers of the Constitution did not want the Minister to have such powers.
I know that the Hon. Minister is now studying law. He knows that when you at statutes, and this also applies to the Constitution, first of all we must look at the mischief that the Legislature wanted to cure. So, we must ask ourselves in this august House. What was the mischief that led the framers of the Constitution to come up with the provisions in Section 278 which stipulate that the tenure of office of councilors must be similar to those of Members of Parliament, as stipulated in terms of Section 129 of the Constitution?
Madam Speaker, Section 129 is very clear that; let me read it out for the benefit of all Hon. Members. It is very clear that the tenure of a seat of a Member of Parliament, if the member is convicted outside Zimbabwe of conduct which, if committed in Zimbabwe, would be an offence – I am not going to read the whole Section but I think those parts which are relevant to the submissions which I am going to make. It said that if a Member is convicted in Zimbabwe, of an offence of which breach of trust, dishonesty or physical violence is an essential element. It also goes on to lay out other circumstances where if a Member of Parliament has been convicted, that Member of Parliament would lose his or her seat. Those provisions actually stipulate that if a Member of Parliament is convicted and sentenced to imprisonment for six months or more without the option of a fine or without the option of any other non-custodial punishment, unless the Member on appeal, the conviction is set aside or the sentence of imprisonment is reduced to less than six months. Therefore Madam Speaker, if you have got any councilors who are guilty of corruption, they can be arrested and if they are tried and convicted they would lose their seats as councillors in terms of the provisions which I have alluded to.
The other point is that there should be no reason to differentiate between councillors and Members of Parliament. We all have a mandate from the people. Madam Speaker, one thing which I want to emphasise which is a misconception from other Members, particularly those on your right is to assume that the Minister is a supervisor of local authorities, he is not. Other Hon. Members have already spoken about devolution and I am not going to repeat the arguments which they articulated, but suffice to say that the mayors and the councillors derive their mandate from the people who voted for them. So, they should be accorded similar respect.
My learned colleague, Hon. Ziyambi, made reference to Section 129 (a) and (k) and they said that we must then substitute the Speaker or the President of the Senate as the case might be, for the Minister. I just want to remind the Hon. Member and to highlight to this august House that the long and short of it is that Section 129 (k) speaks of a situation of a Member of Parliament who has, in terms of a letter written to the Speaker of Parliament or the President of the Senate lost their positions as members of the political party, that is only when the Minister can intervene. If you then say that the Councillors can lose their seats on the same basis, what it simply means is that we are talking about a situation where a councilor has either crossed the floor or has been expelled from the political party of which they were members at the time that they were elected to Parliament. Those are the only circumstances where in terms of the provisions which were cited by Hon. Ziyambi, that we can then import the meaning in those sections, where you can then substitute the Hon. Speaker or the President of the Senate, as the case maybe, with the Minister.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, the position of the Hon. Members on your left is very clear. What has happened, in terms of the procedures relating to this Bill, is unacceptable, it is diabolical, it shows a sinister motive on the part of the Hon. Minister. It is clear that they just want to deal with powers to suspend and ultimately remove elected Councilors and Mayors and we will not accept that. So, we do not accept this Bill and we reject in its entirety
When you look at the provisions relating to suspension, you can see how much of the footprints of the Minister, he still wants to live on the Bill. If you look at the nomination of lawyers to act as Chairpersons; the principle is alright but what is objectionable is the fact that the Minister still insists on having nine nominees. If he gets a list of three members, he will say, look I do not like these people; give me another list, until he gets the people whom he finds acceptable.
As a matter of fact, we do not believe that the Minister should even have the power to appoint the tribunal because it defeats the whole the purpose of being independent. It could just have been a compromise but the bottom line is that the Minister must not even have those powers.
Secondly, Madam Speaker we have got the provisions which have come from the Minster of the Civil Service Association. I want to place it on record, we never agreed in the PLC, on having this association at all. At no point or at any stage was this ever mentioned, that is an invention of the Minister. I want to be very clear that we intimated in our sentiments that we could not accept, that in fact the Civil Service Association was even worse than the Judicial Service Commission for the simple reason that the Civil Service Commission is an Executive Commission. We cannot separate the Minister from that commission which is also part of the Executive.
If you want to have independence, I want to reiterate; this Bill is unconstitutional, this Bill is unacceptable, we do not accept this Bill, it must be rejected in its entirety and we will not have anything to do with this Bill. We reject it and we insist – [HON. MEMBERS ON THE
RIGHT: Unconstitutional, unconstitutional.] - MDC Hon. Members left their seats and marched..
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Members for their contribution. What is quite clear Madam Speaker is that the MDC are trying to protect criminal cabals – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
*HON. MURAI: On a point of order! Madam Speaker, my point of order is on this, we can never see a leopard trying to look after the sheep because it will devour them. Therefore, we have to effect this march out because there is no need for staying behind.
HON. KASUKUWERE: The colleagues on the right were not
making contributions to help us in crafting a law that helps the people of this country. It was a succession game, in this party, there is a challenge. There are looking for a new leader, hence all the contributors who were coming in front, all they were doing was campaigning – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Minister, I am appealing to you to just debate according to the Bill and not provoke any other situation.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order! Madam Speaker I have a point of order. People can disturb me, they can continue to haul like concubines – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Would you please withdraw
that.
HON. MARIDADI: I withdraw.
Hon. Maridadi walked out.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Madam Speaker, the last man standing has gone out. I want to thank the Hon. Member – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Where is this noise coming from? I wonder.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Let me thank the Chairperson of the Committee Hon. Zindi and colleagues who worked hard to produce their report. In response Madam Speaker, I will quickly deal with some of the areas that they had raised with us that is to do with powers to suspend and remove a Councillor. Quite clear as the law stands, those powers are still with the Minister but what we did not have and what colleagues have talked about is that the missing link was what we do after suspending a Councilor. What we are now going to be able to do after the passing of this Bill is to set up a tribunal which will look into the case, the merits or lack of them and give us direction to the Minister in terms of proceeding and way forward.
Secondly, with the regards to the ability to consult the local people before suspending the councillors, Madam Speaker, I want to submit that we do not have a recall mechanism. Once one has been elected a Councilior, he will be a Councillor until his term of office comes to an end to the extent that if people raise concerns, the Government must have a mechanism and I, as the Minister and superintendant of the local authorities must be able to assure the communities and people and say, this is what we are going to do. The following colleague or councillor is being suspended but his case must be looked at fairly.
Thirdly, that the tribunal be appointed by the Parliamentary Legal
Committee (PLC). That will be a challenge Madam Speaker. There is Separation of Powers. You cannot have a situation where another arm of Government wants to superintend or supervise another. We have got the three areas which is the Judiciary, the Executive and the Legislature, one of the other cannot interfere with the work of the other.
The role of our Residents Association, it is a fact that most of the
Residents Associations are formed by people who would have lost elections. Now to then say, we have an opposition party to sit in a Tribunal that looks at a case involving the victor in an electoral process, again is a travesty of justice.
With regards to the remuneration of the Tribunal, Madam Speaker, this again the Legislature cannot be involved in the administrative that are within the province of competence of the Executive. With regards to the payment of the expenses of the Tribunal, the colleagues were already talking about the provincial councils. These have not yet been enacted.
Lastly, the amendments to cover the alignment of the whole Act, I addressed the issue in my speech at the Second Reading. I said, we are only for now trying to address the issue of the Tribunal but the Attorney
General’s Office is seized with the drafting of a comprehensive law that will cover all the areas that colleagues are concerned with.
With regards to the contributions, I think Hon. Cross is no longer in here but I think all he did was to give us a story of the history of how Mberengwa is inferior to Harare. It is no longer the Belingwe and
Salisbury of yesterday, we are a neutral state, we are one country. The people in Mberengwa are just as useful as the people in Harare, so this discrimination is unacceptable – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - He further went on to talk about the democratic alliance of South Africa. I can almost tell Madam Speaker that he envies what is happening in the
Cape Colony, if I were to say, in the Cape Town and that is not
Zimbabwe. We are not a province of South Africa, Zimbabwe is
Zimbabwe and South Africa is South Africa so what the DA does in
South Africa does not affect what happens in Zimbabwe. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
Madam Speaker with regards to the suspension as he alleges that we have suspended and caused the arrest of the Mayor of Harare, these two processes are quite separate. As the Minister in charge of Local Government, we are only dealing with issues to do with the administration of our Local Authorities and in this particular case
Harare. What has happened with the Zimbabwe Anticorruption Commission (ZAC), it does not report to this Minister and our hands are clean, we have nothing to do with what has befallen the Mayor. Save also to add that a few days ago, ZAC arrested the Acting Chief Executive Officer of ZBC. The MDC never made noise but today because they find that one of their own is in trouble, they want to blame this Government. I think we must allow our institutions to do their work and in any case, these matters will go to court and we cannot comment on them.
Madam Speaker, with regards to Gweru, again the MDC in Gweru is not just MDC is Gweru. We suspended the entire council including members of ZANU PF. We wanted to give them an opportunity to state their case before a Tribunal. The same political party rushed to the courts, we also went to the courts. Yes, we lost in the courts but we are allowed in terms of the law to appeal to the next level in terms of the law. We have appealed to the Supreme Court and that matter stands there. The fact that Kombayi is not in office is as a result of him having taken us to court and we have also gone to defend ourselves.
Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Chinotimba for his excellent contribution and support. In fact he raised a very important issue of multiple accounts. The City of Harare is infested with serious corruption. Just a few days ago the Comptroller and Auditor-General’s report clearly indicated the decay that has beset our capital. We have a situation where two sets of computers are generating invoices, one which goes to the Local Authority and one which cannot be accounted for, yet we have city fathers who are supposed to superintend over these Local Authorities. This level of corruption Madam Speaker cannot be allowed to exist a day longer and continue like that.
Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga spoke of the devolution and I covered this. This is going to be addressed by the new amendments but let me add and say, like Hon. Ziyambi said, “it depends on the ability of the State”. We cannot just rush in to set aside 5% of our national budget to pursue an objective which we know our nation can hardly afford at this point in time.
With regards to the unity of our country, I do not think the MDC can lecture us with regards to unity. If they have formed over ten political parties in less than five years, they cannot talk of unity any further. They have no reason to talk about that – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - let alone with regards to a Tribunal. This is an ad hoc and not a permanent structure. We will have several of these across the country. I said it yesterday, we have over 1 956 Councillors across the country and if we are going to have one permanent Tribunal, it will then cease being a Tribunal but becomes a court. So we are saying we will have these independent Tribunals across the country in the various provinces as and when issues arise.
I want to thank Hon. Matuke for his very distilled response and contribution. Indeed Hon. Matuke is an experienced administrator. He has been in local governance for a very long time of over 15 years and his contributions basically confirm why we brought this Bill here. We must protect the interests of the poor, those who pay their little savings to a Local Authority which ends up abusing it.
Hon. Kereke, once again I want to thank you very much for your contribution. You have correctly alluded to the grand corruption that is now being witnessed across the country in our Local Authorities and this again cannot be covered up.
Hon. Maridadi, except from campaigning like I said earlier on, had no other issues to talk about.
Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Ziyambi again for his very solid presentation. The tiers of Government do not create room for another republic within a republic. The fact that they are Local Authorities, they are creatures of statutes and cannot become independent. Independent from who? We are one country, we are the Government, we are the national Government and it was never the intention of our Legislatures to create a republic within a republic. And I want to thank Hon. Ziyambi for knocking sense into colleagues who were having difficulties in understanding very basic requirements of the law.
Hon. Muderedzwa, thank you again for your very solid support to the Bill, the same to Hon. Savanhu who spoke very strongly again as an experienced local government practitioner who was involved in the City of Harare. He brought forward some of the corrupt activities that have hitherto been covered up by the MDC.
Hon. Zvidzai has left the room but what we could only hear from him is that actually they were running a process of aggregating the requirements is it lime or aluminium sulphate? I did not even know about aluminium sulphate that is supplied to the Local Authorities. It appears it is now the business of our colleagues putting these orders together and making money out of it and this is what we must fight in these Local Authorities. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
*Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Mahoka again for her solid contribution and supporting us that we should definitely be moving ahead and fighting corruption because corruption is a cancer in our society. We also heard talk zvekuroodzana in Gweru and things like that. Ndodaira kuti vanga vaona kuti nyaya yacho yapera.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Minister
please stick to one language.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Ooh Madam Speaker, I was responding
to the individual contributions but thank you very much.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is for the sake of the Hansard Reporters who are recording.
HON. KASUKUWERE: My apologies. Hon. Gonese who led
the walk out again, it was all obiter dictum. It was nothing except a good story which made nothing. He did not tell us anything that would make a difference serve to try and defend a lost cause. I am happy that they have moved out including him.
Lastly but not least Madam Speaker, let me thank all the Hon. Members for their commitment to a clean Government. I think the statement we have made as a party is to send a very clear message to the people out there, that ZANU PF cares for the ordinary men and women in our country. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- This attitude will carry us forward. If we allow the people to be abused, it is a fact that councillors in many instances have been taking advantage of those who cannot have a voice. So what the party has done and what Government is doing, confirms our commitment to clean governance, spirited campaign and fight against corruption. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.1,
2016]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 4 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B.1,
2016]
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill [H.B.1, 2016] be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL
GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING
(HON. KASUKUWERE), the House adjourned at Quarter to Nine o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 28th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APPOINTMENT TO COMMITTEES
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have one announcement to make, the following Hon. Member, Hon. C. Mutsvangwa, will join the Committees on Mines and Energy and Finance and Economic Development.
VISITIORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of students and teachers from Budiriro 1, Primary
School from Harare Province, you are most welcome – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order Hon. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. HOLDER: Mr. Speaker, today, in the Daily News on page
4, they speak about legislators coming to Parliament drunk – [AN HON. MEMBER: You.] – I am asking for your protection Mr. Speaker these are the characters that we do not want in this House. I have this paper, The Daily News on page 4, under immunities because I raised the point of order during Question and Answer time on Wednesday and one of the
Hon. Members stood up and actually shouted and said ‘Holder is drunk’. It is a character assassination in my constituency currently and country everybody is saying Holder has gone to Harare to drink – [Laughter.] – So, Mr. Speaker, Hon. Maondera needs to withdraw that statement that I was drunk on that day.
Mr. Speaker Sir. I am asking for your protection. The same thing that happened to me today can happen to any other Members of Parliament in this House, simply because we want to be open; we want justice solved in this august House. Also talking about the writers, the writer of this article, if I could bring this paper to you, her name is Bridget, should learn to report the truth. Some of the issues, they do not have to character assassinate individuals here simply because we give them a hard time. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your point of order is too pronged. The first prong deals with the publication which is a matter that you should handle with the publishers. The second aspect is one of an utterance and I will need to check in the Hansard how it was captured and we shall proceed thereafter accordingly. Are there any notices of motions?
Hon. Cross having stood up to give Notice of Motion.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. All motions must follow due
process.
HON. CROSS: I submitted it two weeks ago.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you kindly sit down? What I was saying Hon. Cross is that all motions coming into the House have got to go through the Clerk of Parliament and then it must come through the Chair. Was that done?
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, I submitted it two weeks ago to the office on the first floor and I was told last week by the Deputy Clerk that I could present this morning.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It must have my signature. Did it have my signature?
HON. CROSS: Can I be assured Mr. Speaker Sir, that you will address this matter immediately.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Definitely.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on a point of order in terms of Standing Order No. 32 as read with Standing Order No. 68. The substance is in relation to Standing Order 32 and 33 but it is in terms of Standing Order No. 68 (d) which relates to points of orders.
I am happy that it is you who is in the Chair today, firstly because you appreciate issues and secondly, I believe you are a democrat and not just a catholic but a good catholic –[HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. No Member should be judgmental
of the Chair. You can do that perhaps outside the House. Just simply address the Chair.
HON. GONESE: Point taken Mr. Speaker Sir. On Wednesday, 22nd of June, 2016, I rose on a matter of privilege and that was in terms of Standing Order No. 68 in relation to proceeding of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. When I raised the matter of privilege and it was actually captured in the Hansard, the point I made was that I raised several issues and the first point I made was relating to a purported meeting of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. There were also other issues which I raised in terms of …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can I get you straight Hon. Member. Did you say you raised a point of order when..?
HON. GONESE: On the 22nd of June, 2016.
THE HON. SPEAKER: And the Chair did not deal with that
issue.
HON. GONESE: This is why I want to make reference to that Hansard, she did not. The chair who was the Deputy Speaker on that day promised – [THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did.]- No, I do have the Hansard. Let me just check, I do have the Hansard Mr. Speaker and I just want to bring you to speed in relation to the issues that were under consideration.
The point of order was a matter of privilege which I rose on related to a purported meeting of the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What does the Hansard say?
HON. GONESE: The Hansard indicates that I raised procedural issues. I pointed out…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why don’t you read it?
HON. GONESE: I will read it then. ‘HON. GONESE: Madam
Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege in terms of the provisions of Standing Order Number 68 paragraph (d) as read with the provisions of Standing Order Number 69, 32 and 33....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, would you
please approach the Chair.’
HON. GONESE: After approaching the Chair and explaining my position I was then allowed to proceed and I am now going to read out what I said on the day in question.
‘HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. As I was saying earlier on, I rise in terms of the provisions of Standing Order No. 68 (d) as read with the provisions of Standing Order Number 69, 32, 33 and other Standing Orders which I am going to refer to in the course of my presentation. In terms of the provisions of this Standing Order, it is a matter of privilege and such a matter in terms of the provisions of Standing Order No. 69, takes precedence over other motions as well as
Orders of the Day.
This matter is in terms of Standing Order No. 32 (4) in regard to the proceedings of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Madam Speaker, can I proceed?
Madam Speaker, the issues which I am raising are fundamental for the good order and proceedings of this august House. The issues which I am raising are very fundamental. They are very crucial.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please proceed?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I am proceeding Madam Speaker. In terms of Standing Order Number 32 and 33 there are elaborate provisions which are laid out regarding the convening of meetings of Parliamentary Legal Committee in particular.
Yesterday, Madam Speaker, when I came to the House, I was informed that a purported meeting of the Parliamentary Legal Committee had taken place. When I spoke to the Chairperson, he indicated to me that they had already prepared or agreed on a NonAdverse Report. That meeting, I was not aware of it. Hon Majome is currently away participating in the public hearings which are being conducted by the Local Government Portfolio Committee and she was not even given notice of any meeting and there are five Members.
The Parliamentary Legal Committee is a very important Committee of this august House. It is the only Committee which is provided for in terms of the Constitution, Section 152 is very clear. It sets out the establishment of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. As I was pointing out, Madam Speaker, we actually had a group discussion on our WhatsApp group which comprises Counsel to Parliament and the
Members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee where a suggestion…–
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - THE HON. SPEAKER: Order at the back there.
HON. GONESE:…had been made that the Parliamentary Legal
Committee meets at 12:30 p.m. yesterday.
I indicated that this was a very important Bill and I suggested that we could not proceed that way in the absence of one of our members who was away, not on a frolic of her own, but on Parliamentary duties as part of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Having expressed these sentiments, my assumption was that, like all rational beings and one of our members, whom I will mention, even concurred to the suggestion that we meet on Monday to deal with the issue of the report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee regarding the Local Government Amendment Bill.
What I am saying, Madam Speaker, is fundamental because I think we need it for posterity. Thereafter, Madam Speaker, I was informed by the Chairperson that we have already finished. You were not here in
Parliament. Nicodemously and stealthily, I was present. I was here in Harare. I had gone to the bank. I could not access money from the bank. I was told to wait for two hours. I went back after two hours and I was still at the bank up to 2:30 p.m. Then the Chairperson said to me, you were not in the House and this is the way we proceeded.
But the long and short of it, Madam Speaker is that, I want to… -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: The provisions of Standing Order 32 are very clear, that the Committee must form its opinion through the collective knowledge and experience of the members. The reason why I am referring to these provisions is because they are very important and critical.
In terms of paragraph 5, the periods within which the Committee must report to the House, the Vice President, Minister or authority referred to in Subsection 4, in the case of a Bill described in terms of Section 152 paragraph 3(a) of the Constitution, the period of 26 business days.
This particular Bill was referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee on 7th June, 2016 and from my calculations, business days exclude Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays and from my calculations, only 11 days have elapsed. In other words, we still have got 13 days within which to examine the Bill. I believe that those days were put in for a reason. To allow us to consult, to seek other advice because as lawyers, it does not mean that we know everything. We are legally qualified, but we also seek the opinions of others.
Furthermore, Madam Speaker, I am not going to read the Standing Orders to save time. They are very clear that all members are entitled to prepare their own reports. If the Chairperson prepares a report and any of the members of the Committee feels differently, that member of the Committee is entitled, in terms of our Standing Orders, to prepare a draft report which is different to the one prepared by the majority of the members and the Committee is obliged and required to go over the two reports paragraph by paragraph…
… we need confirmation that the purported meeting, from what the Clerk was now expressing, that the purported meeting which was nicodemously held yesterday is a nullity. We need that pronouncement to be made in this august House and that any further meetings, Madam Speaker, you are aware that from tomorrow we have got a workshop...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, please!
HON. GONESE: We have got a workshop on Sustainable Goals in Mutare where some members of the Committee including myself and Hon. Majome are going to be in attendance. We can only meet as a Parliamentary Legal Committee next week. We do not want a situation where the Chairperson of the Committee who purports to be an independent Member of Parliament is more ZANU PF than ZANU PF itself, can then just come up with a meeting....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I think you have
made your point.
HON. GONESE: Yes, if I have made my point, I was going to go to town but if I had made my point, if it is agreed - yes, I was going to read all the provisions which I am justified and entitled to do so that we really make the point that what was purported to have happened is not in accordance with principles of natural justice, not in accordance with the Constitution and is not in accordance with our Standing Orders.
That is my case Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, we are going to
look into that matter and also get the help of administration, I thank you.
Then after that, Mr. Speaker Sir, I proceeded to Mutare. Now, Mr.
Speaker…- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - THE HON. SPEAKER: Then what? What expired?
HON. GONESE: What then transpired, Mr. Speaker, this is what I am now going to refer to. Mr. Speaker, I got a message on my phone from Counsel to Parliament, which was to the effect, check your e-mails and I have printed those e-mails, Mr. Speaker Sir.
For your information, Mr. Speaker, all the members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, we are part of a WhatsApp group written Parliamentary Legal Committee which also includes Counsel to Parliament. I am going to go over this because it is very pertinent to the submissions that I am going to make. Mr. Speaker Sir…
THE HON. SPEAKER: So, what was the ruling? That is my concern.
HON. GONESE: The Madam Deputy Speaker said, “Hon. Gonese, we are going to look into that matter and also get the help of administration. I thank you.”
And I want to go over what I submitted earlier when I was reading this. I had already indicated here in Parliament in the presence of the Clerk, to this Parliament, that I was not going to be available from that day until Monday, which is yesterday. I said it in this august House. I had also indicated that Hon. Majome was away and that she would not be available until Monday.
The reason why I am now referring to our WhatsApp messages is because we had actually had a discussion regarding a suitable date for the meeting of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. So, Madam Speaker said she was going to look into the matter and that she was going to consult Parliament administration. I had also raised issues relating to the procedures of the PLC which I did not go over in detail, but I just alluded to them whereby, in terms of Standing Order 32 and Standing Order 33, the processes of the PLC are different to those of any other Committee in the sense that members of the PLC, Mr. Speaker Sir, are required, if they do not agree to any draft report, to indicate.
If you look at the provisions of those Standing Orders, which I can go to if necessary, the long and short of it is that in terms of those provisions, the minutes of the PLC must indicate how each member would have voted if there is disagreement. Only if there is unanimous view points, then that will arise, but in the event that members are not in agreement, all members are entitled even to prepare, each one of them, a draft report and then the members of the Committee have to go over that report paragraph by paragraph.
Now, where I am going, Mr. Speaker, relates to the WhatsApp discussions and conversations. I will also go to the e-mails because they are very relevant to what I am going to say – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - What I am getting to, Mr. Speaker, is that the non-adverse report presented to this august House was not…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Okay, thank you.
HON. GONESE: And in saying what I am saying Mr. Speaker, I also rely on the provisions of the Constitution. We are looking at the provisions of Section 119 which obliges us, as Parliament, to uphold the Constitution and to ensure that our processes are in accordance with the Constitution and not to violate and to mutilate the Constitution which is what I believe transpired in respect of this matter.
I am just going to those WhatsApp messages, Mr. Speaker… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - They are very important because there was communication.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. GONESE: Hon. Samukange, he says, “from my observations…”
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Would you want to go through all the WhatsApps and so on?
HON. GONESE: It is important Mr. Speaker, because the meeting which they held was in bad faith.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Where is the report, did you ask for the report?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I do have the report. Mr. Speaker, what I am trying to drive at is that, that meeting was held mala fide in utmost bad faith because the Members were aware that the two of us were not able to attend and the draft Non-Adverse Report, I have got a copy is dated 23rd June, 2016 and addressed to you. It says, “I have to inform you that the Parliamentary Legal Committee met on the 23rd of June,
2016 and considered the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill. The
Committee is of the opinion that the Bill is not in contravention of the
Declaration of Rights or any other provisions of the Constitution.”
The minutes purport that we had given apologies, which is contrary to the whatsApp messages, that is why I am making reference to the whatsApp messages because they proved a lie that we sent apologies. We did not – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - The point
Mr. Speaker is that we also have emails, one of which I forwarded to the
Clerk of Parliament and none of those emails were responded to. That is the reason why I have all these documents, to establish the point which I want to prove. The reason why I am referring to the whatsApp conversations; here comes the Chairman: “from my observations, I will be a minority and we will have to sign an Adverse Report but that is democracy,” that is Hon. Samkange. This can be proved because I have got the phone and a whatsApp group but this is just a print-out.
Then Hon. Chasi – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The notice of amendments which came from the Hon. Minister was not in accordance with the discussions that we had with the Minister –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, I think you have made
your point.
HON. GONESE: I do not know whether that is what happened on
Wednesday. My point is that in the course of our discussion, Hon. Chasi
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you wind up.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker Sir, if you can allow me, for the benefit of all the other Hon. Members and yourself, our modus operandi in the Parliamentary Legal Committee was to seek consensus on a mutually convenient date for all of us and here we had Hon. Chasi, myself and Hon. Majome agreeing that we meet on Monday, the 27th – and it is here on the whatsApp messages.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you wind up.
HON. GONESE: I am winding up Mr. Speaker Sir. I am saying that Hon. Chasi said, “I am ok with Monday.” That was his message – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Let me just read what I have, I think it is important Mr. Speaker. This is a very critical meeting, this is me now; “where all Members should be given an opportunity to attend, Hon. Majome is away on Parliament business and I suggest that we meet on Monday. I am leaving tomorrow and there is a workshop on sustainable goals in Mutare starting from Thursday. We are still within the time given to us in terms of the Standing Orders.”
THE HON. SPEAKER: I quite understand your concerns. Can I advise – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Gonese approaches the Chair.
HON. GONESE: To cut the long story short Mr. Speaker, what I
am saying is – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I will submit the whole whatsapp messages. There was a deafening silence The Microphone having gone off.
HON. GONESE: I do not have a recorder Mr. Speaker Sir – [AN
HON. MEMBER: Wait for the recorder to be put on.] – The Microphone having been switched on.
HON. GONESE: The tabling of the report was not done procedurally. There is no report on the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Last time this is what transpired. I will only finish on the condition that we are not proceeding with the Bill in the absence of my submission on the 23rd of June as I would have wanted to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The critical point is that, consultation was to be made with administration, which consultation was made and the raison d’etre of that consultation was that the Committee met on three occasions to consider the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill, [H.B. 1, 2016], and its notice of amendments. The Bill was first considered by the Committee on 9th June, after notice had been sent to all the Members of the PLC, a day before the Committee met, all the five Members of the PLC attended this meeting. A number of concerns were raised that led to the Members seeking clarification from the Ministry, resolving that a meeting be held the following Monday, 13th June, 2016.
At the meeting held on 13th June, 2016, the Committee was fully constituted and the Minister responsible for Local Government, Public Works and National Housing Hon. Kasukuwere attended in the company of Mr. Nelson Dias, the Deputy Attorney General, Legislative Drafting Division and three officers from the Ministry of Local Government,
Public Works and National Housing and the Drafting Department of the Attorney General’s Office. During this meeting, the Committee expressed its concern to which the Hon. Minister aided by those accompanying him responded, resulting in an agreement being reached by the meeting. The meeting agreed that if the Minister was to produce a notice of amendments addressing the two concerns, that is, the appointment of the Tribunal and the appeal process that they believed the Hon. Minister did not adequately answer, they would issue a nonadverse report certificate.
The last meeting that considered the Bill and its notice of amendments was held on Thursday, 23rd June, 2016 after notice had been given before. The three Members attended the meeting which was sufficient to constitute a quorum. The Committee resolved that the notice of amendments met the requirements that were made by the Committee in its previous meeting.
It must be noted however that prior to the meeting, two notices of amendments had been received. The first one barely addressed the matter of appeals relating to the decisions of the Tribunal to be established. Accordingly, the Minister was notified and he submitted a notice of amendments addressing all the matters raised. That having been done, and also the PLC, in spite of the notices of absence by Hon. Gonese and Hon. Majome, the three members who attended constituted a majority in terms of Section 23(3) of the Standing Orders. It was on the basis of that meeting that a non-adverse report was written.
Also, there is nowhere in the Standing Orders that a PLC should constitute all the five members for them to arrive at a decision. I think Standing Order 32(3) is quite clear on that. What happened in terms of consultation with the Minister was done in terms of Section 152 (4) of the Constitution. The Minister complied with all the concerns that the
PLC had indicated – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] - Hon. Gonese, can we follow our Standing Orders. In that regard therefore, the non-adverse report was correctly before this House –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
HON. GONESE: I now rise on a matter of privilege Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it on the ruling that I gave?
HON. GONESE: No. Mr. Speaker, first of all I was about to go over some of the contents of the WhatsApp messages – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Those WhatsApp messages show that there was no agreement. Mr. Speaker, this is the reason why they are now on record.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Just kindly take your seat.
HON. GONESE: No. Mr. Speaker, I have risen on a matter of
privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, I will come back to you. I think what Hon. Gonese should really understand is that the Standing Orders do not require 100% attendance, it requires a majority. Order, order! Unless, there is a section of the Standing Orders which says all the five members must be there.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, you are not allowing me to adumbrate the issue because I have not finished- [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – It is not even about the quorum at this point.
Mr. Speaker, you made certain pronouncements which unfortunately
you have been misled on some points. There was no agreement. If I refer to the WhatsApp messages, the Minister’s amendments come up with the Civil Service Commission, which was never part of our discussion. This is now part of the conversations that took place between the members of the committee because the issue of the Civil
Service Commission never arose during the course of the discussion. So, Mr. Speaker you have been misled; you have been given wrong information by whoever gave you that information, it does appear that the administration of Parliament has now been compromised because they are now giving information which is not correct. The
WhatsApp conversations proved that what we discussed was Local Government Association and also the Institute of Public Accountants. In the WhatsApp messages, there was an outstanding matter ….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, if there are issues that will arise, why do you not debate these when the Hon.
Minister….
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, it cannot happen that way – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, take a seat!
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, I have not finished. First of all let me talk about the substance first, because you have made a ruling which contains information which is not correct. It is not your fault Mr. Speaker, you have been misled. I believe that as a matter of privilege, I have to correct that. You are saying that the Minister complied with what the Parliamentary Legal Committee had said, which is not correct…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order but have you heard the
Hon. Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. GONESE: It is not correct because we have got the conversations. Mr. Speaker, I have got the notice to the Minister, the first point in the notice which was sent to the Minister by the PLC related to the issue of suspension.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member, I hear you.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker Sir, on the letter to the Minister and this is the letter to the Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Gonese, please take your seat. The points of privilege have been made and if there are any issues, these will arise in the debate. I call upon the Hon. Minister –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. GONESE: I have not finished. I was only sitting down to have order in the House.
MOTION
REPLACEMENT OF TEXT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
LAWS AMENDMENT BILL (H.B.1, 2016)
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
With the leave of the House, I move that the present text of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill. (H.B.1, 2016) which is currently at Second Reading stage be replaced with a new text. The new text has incorporated the amendments which address the issues raised by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the initial text of the Bill. The new text is the basis upon which the Parliamentary Legal Committee issued a Non Adverse Report on the Bill – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, I think you are not being fair. I had not finished, I had only sat down in respect of your office.
Hon. Gonese approached the Chair.
HON. GONESE: With due respect Mr. Speaker, I beg your indulgence Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, you are not allowed to be taking pictures – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order, order! I think I had ruled that the Non-Adverse Report was tabled here and it carries the day and can we proceed – [HON.
MEMBERS: No, no!] - The Minister of Local Government, Public
Works and National Housing…
HON. GONESE: Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, first of all, I want to correct the misleading impression which was given to this august House and the nation at large regarding the processes on the substance of the matter. The longer and shorter of it – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - It is my privilege now as a Member of the PLC, to put the record straight. After putting the record straight, I will make way for my colleague, Hon. Majome.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with due respect to your office, the notice or the letter to the Minister also made reference to the issue of suspension. In our conversations which unfortunately, you prevented me from going over, there was very clear indication that there were areas of disagreement. In terms of the Standing Orders, we were entitled, myself and Hon. Majome, to be present at the meetings raising all our points of disagreements and if need be, to vote. Hon. Chasi, in his conversations with us said yes, we must strive to agree and this was the essence of our meeting – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Before I make way for my colleague, Hon. Majome, in terms of the Constitution Section 68, we as a Parliament, must not be seen violating the provisions of that Section where we are denied the right to administrative justice which is reasonable and impartial.
I submit Mr. Speaker Sir, with due respect, that your ruling flies in the face of the provisions of the Constitution and I want it placed on record that the information that you were given about having coming to an agreement, is not correct. The only proper thing to be done in this case is to declare that Non-Adverse Report, a nullity and allow the Committee to sit as agreed by the Members – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! I think you are speaking in
circles.
HON. MAJOME: On a point of Privilege. I have two points of
Privileges Mr. Speaker Sir, as a Member of this august House. As a Member of this House, I was elected to this august House to do service to my nation. My first point of privilege relates to the issue of the
Parliamentary Legal Committee Repot and to confirm Hon. Gonese’s
view that it is actually patently false that the Parliamentary Legal Committee made a pre-emptive commitment to issue a Non Adverse Report.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I raise this as an important issue because the issue of truth is necessary in our public affairs. We should not mislead Parliament. Mr. Speaker Sir, at no point did the Members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee, including myself, indicate that whatever it is that the Hon. Minister will change, will result in us confirming to a Non-Adverse Report. It is simply not true Mr. Speaker and that needs to be reflected for the record.
My second point of privilege is on issues around the process and the procedure of this Bill. I have a Constituency here in Harare and my point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir is that it is now a Constitutional requirement for members of the public to be given access to the proceedings of Parliament and particularly to Bills that are before the House. Mr. Speaker Sir, the people of Harare were denied access to the proceedings of this Parliament in terms of this Bill particularly at HICC. The people that I represent in Harare West were beaten up and driven away here in Harare.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now talking about Public
Hearings? We are talking about the Non-Adverse Report.
HON. MAJOME: Yes Mr. Speaker. It is an issue of public safety and public importance. I want to raise it as a point of privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is in your report.
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not present a report, as a
Member of Parliament…
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, it will come in the report presented by your Chairperson.
HON. MAJOME: I will raise it as a Member of Parliament for
Harare West Constituency. I have people who were injured in my Constituency, it is not in the Committee’s report, and it is a point of privilege. Parliament is in Harare, the City of Parliament is Harare Mr. Speaker Sir and it is not acceptable that the people of Harare will be denied an opportunity to interact with this very Parliament. It is not a matter of the Portfolio Committee and I wish to request through you Mr. Speaker Sir, that you cause a serious investigation to be conducted about the violence that happened at the Harare International Conference Centre as well as Machipisa.
It is not an issue that should be swept under the carpet through a report Mr. Speaker Sir. We will be failing the public; it is unconstitutional to proceed without Parliament taking an interest and protecting Members of the public and Members of Parliament.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Alright. Thank you. The Minister of Local Government Public Works and National Housing seeks leave of the House to move that the present text of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill [H.B. 1, 2016] which is currently at Second Reading
Stage, be replaced with a new, a text which reads as incorporated, the amendment which addresses the issues raised by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the initial text of the Bill. The new text is the basis upon which the Parliamentary Legal Committee issued a Non-Adverse Report on the Bill.
HON. ZINDI: Hanzi ndimbomira.
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order! Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. What is clear is that fundamental issues have been raised around fundamental issues, around procedural improprieties, around violations - [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – not just of the rules but the need to regard the Constitution.
Hon. Speaker Sir, it is a fact that our democracy is not a parliamentary democracy. It is a Constitutional democracy and what we cannot entertain or fathom is for the Speaker to be abused and asked to preside over fiction, asked to preside over a nullity and over things that are being tested at a Committee level because this so fundamental. You are aware Hon. Speaker Sir, as a learned colleague and advocate, that once you have procedural issues raised in the process of coming up with a Bill, then it has to be corrected before we just nose dive or plunge ourselves into further error.
You are aware the Speaker’s Ruling is being made in the context of certain misrepresentations - [AN HON. MEMBER: You are challenging the Speaker’s ruling!] – You are challenging yourself and you know that very well - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order address the Chair please.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, you know, we have terrorist
Ministers. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Chamisa…
*HON. MAKUNDE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Yaa tasimuka isusu manje, mira uwone!
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Chamisa, withdraw
that statement, address the Chair please and do not answer them.
HON. CHAMISA: Sure, Mr. Speaker Sir. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Chamisa…- [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order, I have asked Hon.
Chamisa to withdraw that statement of terrorist Ministers. - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, I hear what you are saying that I should withdraw. I am very happy to withdraw …
HON. MAKUNDE: On a point of order - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Not only withdrawal, not only withdrawal. It is too light. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Chamisa, may you
finish your withdrawal statement please?
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. My statement -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, please
address the Chair.
HON. CHAMISA: I am happy Hon. Speaker Sir to rollback the statements I made with the full understanding that the concerned Ministers are also going to rollback their activities that border on terrorism - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, you have not withdrawn
anything.
HON. CHAMISA: No, I withdrew my statement…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order no, no, no. Honourable, I understand as a lawyer, you have put it through the backdoor. Can you just make a straight forward withdrawal?
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker Sir, I think in the interest of progress that statement stands withdrawn as I indicated and just to say that under the circumstances Hon. Speaker Sir; in the interest of preserving the integrity of your Chair and also to preserve the legitimacy and integrity of our Parliament, its rules and sovereignty, may we allow ourselves to give way to wisdom and then suspend this process until you have reached a full conclusion - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I know that people are saying let us vote but we cannot try to go to a vote to decide over a nullity - [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] - We cannot try to take a vote to decide over something that is wrong, it is not necessary and I hope - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I know Hon. Speaker Sir, that you are familiar with the decision of the courts in the matter between Biti and the Minister of Justice and
Parliamentary Affairs. I also know that you are familiar of the matter of Mutasa versus Smith which decided over almost similar facts because we had … - [HON. PROF. MOYO: No, no.] - Prof. Moyo, you do not know about this, do not just say no. You do not know it. No, do not just shake your head, go and read - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, yes Hon. Speaker Sir, I am just winding up by urging your Chair to respect what has already been determined and allow this process to be corrected so that we then move to the next stage.
Otherwise the concerns raised by Hon. Gonese, Hon. Majome and other Hon. Members in the same Committee who may not have the courage to raise this issue. We need to correct this matter so that we are able to move to the next stage. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order as Chair, I take full
responsibility of my ruling and my ruling will stand and is subject to review in the future - [AN HON. MEMBER: But history will judge you!]
– Yes, yes - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. GONESE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. There is an outstanding matter, not the one raised by Hon. Chamisa …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Gonese, I have concluded …
HON. GONESE: Yes, may I beg your indulgence Mr. Speaker.
No, no, no, it is on a different issue Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is on a different issue?
HON. GONESE: Yes, not the one raised by Hon. Chamisa, there you have made a ruling. You also made a ruling on the issue which I raised but, there was a different matter raised by Hon. Majome in relation to the public hearings which were disrupted. She specifically asked for a Committee of Inquiry to be set up to establish the circumstances under which those public hearings were conducted and also to have those public hearings reconvened. On that matter Mr. Speaker, there was no ruling and I believe that we cannot proceed when there is no ruling on a matter which has been properly placed before Parliament.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are correct Hon. Gonese. Hon.
Majome made a report and the matter will be tabled before the appropriate Committee and investigations will be done. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: We have said no, divide the House Mr. Speaker.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, when the Chair is holding the floor, you cannot interrupt him. So, I think the eyes have it and the question is accordingly affirmed and the Bill is replaced.
HON. GONESE: That is not proper Mr. Speaker. I rose to challenge your ruling at the time which I was supposed to challenge the ruling. You asked for those who are in favour to say ‘Aye’ and we said
‘Noe’, and immediately we said divide the House. We are allowed to do that Mr. Speaker. Those are the rules of division. Our proceedings, I have been in the House and when I say divide, you cannot make the ruling when I am challenging you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have heard you Hon. Gonese. Do not have BP for nothing please. Order, order Hon. Members, Hon. Gonese has asked for the division of the House.
[Bells rung.]
[House divided.]
AYES 134: Beremauro G, Chapfika D, Chasi F, Chigudu M, Chigumba C. C, Chikomba L, Chikuni E, Chimedza P. D. R,
Chimwamurombe A, Chinomona M. M, Chipato A, Chitindi C,
Chitura L, Chivamba K, Chiwa D, Chiwetu J. Z, Dhewa W, Dutiro P,
Gangarawa G, Gezi T, Goche N, Gumbo E, Gumbo J.M, Gumbo S,
Guzah K. N, Haritatos P, Hlongwane M, Holder J, Hungwa G, Jaboon J
Kadungure D. A, Kanhanga E. W, Karoro D, Kasukuwere S, Katsiru L, Kaundikiza M, Khanye N, Kwaramba G, Machingura R, Mackenzie I,
Madanha M, Madondo T, Madubeko J, Maduza T, Madzinga P, Mahiya
M, Mahoka S, Makari Z, Makoni R. R, Makweya M, Mandiwanzira S,
C, Mangami D, Mangwende S, Mapiki J, Marumahoko R, Masamvu L,
Mashange W, Mashayamombe S, Mashonganyika D, Matimba K. M,
Matuke L, Mavenyengwa R, Mawere M. D. V, Mawere M. R. N. S,
Mguni N, Mhlanga N. J, Mhona F. T, Mukanduri S. T, Mukupe T,
Mukwena R, Muponora N, Musabayana D, Musanhi K. S, Musiiwa A,
Musvaire W, Mutezo M, Mutomba W, Mutsvangwa C, Muzenda T. M, Ncube D. M, Ncube G. M, Ncube S, Mkandla M, Mlilo N, Moyo J. N,
Moyo L, Mpala M, Mpofu B, Mpofu M. M, Mpofu S, Mudau M,
Muderedzwa R, Mufunga A, Ndhlovu Alice, Ndlovu M. S, Ndoro L. F,
Nduna D, Nhambu B, Nhema C. F. D, Nkatazo M. M, Nkomo Mail,
Nkomo Malachi, Nleya L, Nyamupinga B. B, Nyere C, Paradza K, Phiri
- P, Runzirwayi J. M, Rungani A, Ruvai E, Savanhu T, Seremwe B, Shamu W. K, Shava J, Shongedza E, Shumba K. D, Sibanda K, Sibanda
M, Sibanda Z, Simbanegavi Y, Sindi C, Sipani-Hungwe O, Thembani S.
Z, Tshuma J, Tsomondo C, Uta K, Vutete M, Zemura L, Zhou P, Zhou T, Zindi I, Ziyambi Z.
Tellers: Hon. F. G. Mukwangwariwa and Hon. J. Chinotimba
NOES 46: Banda T, Bhebhe A, Budha – Masara S, Bunjira R,
Chamisa N, Chibaya A, Chidhakwa S, Chimanikire G, Chinanzvavana
C, Chirisa F, Cross E. G, Gabbuza J. G, Khupe T, Machingauta C,
Majaya B, Majome F. J, Makonya J, Maondera W, Maridadi J, Masuku P, Mataruse P, Matienga M, Matsunga S, Mguni N, MisihairabwiMushonga P. M, Mpariwa P, Muchenje M. S, Mudzuri E, Mugidho M,
Munochinzwa M, Munengami F, Murai E, Musundire A. L, Mutseyami
- C, Muzondiwa, E. S, Ndebele A, Ndlovu D. M, Ndlovu N, Sansole
T.W, Saruwaka T. J. L, Sibanda D. P, Tarusenga U. D, Tshuma B,
Tshuma D, Zvidzai S,Zwizwai M.
Tellers: Hon. I. Gonese and Hon. J. Toffa
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. I affirm that according to the Tellers, the Ayes is 134 and the Noes is 46 and the Bill is accordingly affirmed.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NO. 32 (5) AND 139
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker, I move that the provisions –
Hon. Murai having stood up to give a point of order
THE HON. SPEAKER: I ruled on that point of order. Hon.
Mutseyami, can you sit down. I am going to ask you to leave the House, you are not the Chair. Hon. Minister, you may take a seat.
HON. MURAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this
opportunity. I want to put this on record that the results of these elections which we have just conducted are not in any way reflecting the will of the Hon. Members in this House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, there was a lot of intimidation from Hon. Members from your right. At one point our Hon. Member from your left side was abducted, Hon. Chimanikire – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Member. Those that are
willing to be intimidated of their free choice chose to be counted accordingly. The question of abduction. Order, order. The question of abduction – [AN HON. MEMBER: Gara pasi kana Speaker vachitaura iwewe.] – Hon. Tshuma! Order, order! There were no alarm bells raised for the Sergeant-at-Arms to rescue the abductees.
MOTION
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS NO. 32 (5) AND 139
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the provisions of Standing Orders Number
32(5) and 139, regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee and the Stages of Bills respectively, be suspended in respect of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill (H.B.1, 2016).
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. First
and foremost, I think that the Hon. Minister is not respectful of this august House. He has not told us the reasons why he wants those Standing Orders to be satisfied. You cannot take the Hon. Members of this august House who were elected by the people in their constituencies and who represent the people of Zimbabwe for granted by simply saying you want the Standing Orders to be suspended. That is my first point.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we should be appraised of the reasons as to why the
Hon. Minister would want to have those provisions suspended.
Secondly and more importantly, I am looking at the provisions of
Standing Order Number 32, paragraph 5. This is a very elaborate
Standing Order. It speaks to the periods within which the Parliamentary Legal Committee must report to the House. Firstly Mr. Speaker, in respect of a Bill which is described in terms of Section 152 of the Constitution, the Standing Orders are very clear that the period is 26 business days. I believe that the provision was put in for a purpose. The purpose is to allow the members of the PLC to properly look at the provisions of any Bill. In respect of this matter, if there are going to be any amendments, some of the provisions relate to possible amendments and I strongly object to the suspension of those provisions.
More importantly Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister has not given an indication as to whether that period should be reduced from 26 days and
6 days respectively to one day, one hour or one second. It is unclear Mr. Speaker. If you just have a blanket suspension, it means that the reduction can be anything. I believe it would be appropriate that if you want to deal with the reduction, at least have an indication as to how many days you are talking about. We do not know whether Hon. Members here are going to propose amendments. If they propose amendments, the amendments are then referred to the PLC. When you have a blanket reduction, it could then be construed to mean one second. From what we have seen in this august House, anything is now possible with regards to this Bill and anything cannot be ruled out. That is the first ground of my objection.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in respect of Standing Order 139 regarding Stages of Bills, we have a situation where the Hon. Minister has replaced the original text. Hon. Members did not have the opportunity to see the new text. Now you are saying, if you proceed from now, we then go to the Second Reading when Members have not even seen it because you are now suspending the stages within which the Bill can be debated. I strongly object to that.
Again Mr. Speaker, from the Second Reading, we go to the Committee Stage. Under normal circumstances, two stages of a Bill cannot be held on the same day without the leave of the House. We cannot give an advance leave of the House in terms of acceding to the request by the Hon. Minister when we do not know what he is going to be talking about. As I have indicated already, we want Hon. Members to be afforded the opportunity after the Second Reading, to propose amendments. If we are going to have two stages of the Bill to be debated and decided on the same day, Members are going to be denied that opportunity. I believe that it is incumbent upon us as Hon.
Members not to agree.
Lastly Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether these provisions are being suspended because of any urgency. If it is on the grounds of urgency which the Minister has not mentioned, I am perplexed as to where the urgency arises. We have had the new Constitution since 2013 and the Minister has had an ample opportunity to bring in a Bill to align the provisions of the Act with the provisions of the Constitution. If the Hon. Minister was fast asleep – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am only saying ‘if’ because it has taken him long to bring them. It is not our fault Mr. Speaker Sir. I do not know what urgency has arisen which would cause the Minister to want to suspend the provisions of those Standing Orders.
The Minister has had sight of the new Constitution since 2013 and he knows which provisions are not in sync with the provisions of the two Acts, the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act. He is well aware of the provisions that are not in sync with the Constitution and had ample time to do it. Why he delayed is something that we do not know. I do not agree Mr. Speaker to have a situation where we can fast track this Bill through this august House. For those reasons, I strongly object to the motion by the Hon. Minister.
HON. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to support my colleague and say we are in this House to ensure that we do justice to the law which we passed in 2013, which is the constitutional democracy we have. I have just picked up the Bill from the pigeon hole and I did not look at it. Coming to this House, suspending the reporting period of the PLC does not help us because we need the PLC which is the legal mind to go through this. When I looked through this, I can see that the PLC did not apply their mind and I need to consult other lawyers before I even come to debate this. So, we need time to go and look at this and the PLC needs more time. There is serious unconstitutionality which I see as a layman and I will need time to consult.
Mr. Speaker Sir, all of us here no longer represent ourselves – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I said all of us, including myself. We no longer represent the interests of the country. If we go on the line of following our political party lines, of whipping and we are not looking at the law in toto; all Members must debate freely and making sure that our children and grand children are going to benefit from these laws. We have failed our nation and today I can tell you Mr. Speaker, my heart bleeds in the sense that we are wasting the tax payer’s money, when people have no salaries, to fast track a Bill to dismiss one person.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker for recognising me.
On this Bill, this is one of the best Bills that have come to Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - The reason of my statement is that we need to bring sanity. We come here, crying foul, talking about corruption and all sorts of things. Mr. Speaker, we know political parties are funded by Government, there is an allocation. Government does not have money and these people are now taking money from the council using these mayors – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – It is important to empower the Minister so that the Minister will be able to take action. If we look at all the councils that have been run - looking at the audited report and all that, I am sorry to say that some of these Hon. Members, come here, collect papers from the pigeonholes and do not even read and actually understand what is happening. They want to come and say, they are speaking on behalf of the other Hon. Members; no they are speaking on behalf of themselves. We are wasting time with the other Hon. Members who have caucuses in order to disturb what we are supposed to do at the cost of the nation.
It is sad, when they actually speak, they speak from an uninformed side. They talk …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, can I direct the House.
We are debating the leave sought by the Hon. Minister in terms of Standing Order No. 32 (5) and No. 139. Can we stick to that?
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I was just trying to
correct some issues. I am in support of this Bill.
HON. CHASI: I also rise to support the motion by the Hon.
Minister. I support that motion on the basis of the report by the Auditor General which shows the extent to which corruption in our local government has stretched. Mr. Speaker, local government is the point at which most people intersect or relate to Government. What we have got here with respect to Harare City Council for example, we have a situation where people are operating dual accounting systems. It is contained in here, on the basis of this report, I believe that that is a good basis. I want to say a situation where a local council is not able to account for a variance of US$200 000.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My
point of order is on parliamentary privilege. What we are getting here from the PLC member is that we are debating a Bill which is targeting a particular council. I am saying we are supposed to have a Bill that is supposed to cover the whole nation. The PLC should be looking at a Bill that works for the whole country, not a particular council. My point of order is that the PLC member must not allow suspension so that they look thoroughly into these laws rather than defending the Minister.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you address the
suspension of Standing Orders.
HON. CHASI: The suspension of the Standing Orders is justified by the exigencies of the situation. I am referring to this audit report by the Auditor General and that creates a very urgent situation to enable the Minister to deal with problems in our local councils, in almost all of them not just Harare, every one of them. Thank you.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Mr. Speaker Sir, you have not ruled on my request. With due respect, I have asked you to make a ruling on whether we are debating a Bill for Harare.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, you were not listening. I told the Hon. Member to stick to the leave sought by the Hon. Minister to suspend the orders. That was my ruling.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise…
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, what is the point of order.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Mr. Speaker Sir, with all the due respect
that I give you and you deserve, I think it is so paramount that the Deputy Chief Whip for ZANU PF must recognise your jurisdiction to appoint who to speak rather than to give you direction so that we always respect the office of our Chair. We do not want your office to be demeaned at any time by whosoever, so that your respect is always maintained.
THE HON. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member, the Deputy Chief
Whip was merely bringing to my attention that there was an Hon.
Member standing in as much as – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –the Chief Whip from my left asked that you be given a chance to raise your point of orders. So, we are being fair, thank you.
HON. MAJOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for granting me
this opportunity that I value very much, to lend my voice to the debate on whether or not the Hon. Minister’s motion for leave to be granted for him, in terms of the Standing Orders, to suspend the General Orders in terms of the speed with which Bills move through this House. I wish to oppose that motion and lend support to Hon. Gonese.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we will be doing injustice to the people of Zimbabwe who are out there, watching and waiting for us to represent them in this august House. If we allow this, it is a notorious fact that the generality of Hon. Members of this august House have not at all seen, as
Hon. Gonese has indicated, the proposed amendments that the Hon.
Minister has made to the particular Bill.
Mr. Speaker Sir, if we proceed we will have allowed at our own peril, to have this august House willingly surrender itself to become a rubber stamp that we do not apply our minds, that we pass legislation, not only with eyes closed but with our minds also closed. There is a reason why Bills are printed, they are meant to be read so that people can apply their minds and give weighty consideration to these matters. At the beginning of each and every sitting in this House, we pray not only for God’s wisdom but for God’s wisdom to allow us to give due attention to the trusts that has been vested for the public.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is a dereliction of that trust to just sit here and say that everything is okay with proceedings to want to pass a Bill whose amendments we have not even seen. That is a travesty. That will be lacking respect, if we, Hon. Members of this august House do not take this business seriously, the members of the public will, indeed and even the Executive itself will not respect us if we do not decide to pay due attention to this Bill. It would be a mockery of the Parliamentary process, apart from the other issues around this, to just even agree to sit here and agree that we are going to pass something with our eyes and minds closed – that is not what we are meant to be doing in this august House. This Constitution was passed so that we represent our people.
In my opposition to suspending the motion, I want to submit that with all fairness, the Hon. Minister must indeed canvass the reasons why he does want to suspend the Orders. What is the problem? Is there a matter of urgent public importance that requires that Members of Parliament just throw away their minds and diligence? Without that justification being heard, I do not believe that it would be fair for that motion to be entertained.
Mr. Speaker Sir, leave is actually sought, it is not a given. Once we set a precedent whereby we just do things automatically without thinking, we are going to be a laughing stock, not only of ourselves but also of the public and of posterity. I want to urge Hon. Members of the august House that can we give due respect to this august House?
Thirdly Mr. Speaker Sir, in opposing that motion, even when the Hon. Minister gives us good reasons as to why he is in such a hurry, that does not end there. Hon. Members of this august House must actually apply their minds and decide whether or not it is justifiable that a Bill such as this one be fast tracked and we suspend the Standing Orders.
We will be insulting ourselves and shooting ourselves in the foot if we allow this Parliament to become a rubber stamp and not only a rubber stamp, but that does not have ink.
I also want to remind the House that in terms of this particular Constitution, we are required to make laws for the order and good governance of Zimbabwe. Not just any laws, but the manner in which we even enact the legislation must be reflective of good governance. We will be lying to ourselves if we told ourselves that speeding through and rushing through at breakneck speed - Bills that we have not even seen is good governance. That is not good governance.
In terms of the Constitution again, this Parliament has the power that we must not surrender easily, to make sure that everyone - including the Executive is accountable to us. The Hon. Minister must account to us as to exactly why he wants us to break the speed limit as far as passing Bills is concerned. What kind of ambulance, is this what is the mischief, what do we want to achieve?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to end by responding to what Hon. Chasi, my learned Hon. Brother has said. He has cited the contents of the
Auditor General’s report - that is his surmise of what might possibly be the need to hurry the Bill that the Hon. Minister has not told us. However, in any event, I think it is ironic that he has used that example for us to try and rush the Bill. In fact the Auditor General’s Reports are before Parliament in terms of another Act of Parliament in their own processes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chasi corrected himself. He said it
applies to all local authorities, not only Harare.
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am not speaking about
Harare at all. It will not be a justification for hurrying this Bill because of local authorities. The Auditor General’s report was put in our pigeon hole, in terms of a whole raft of legislative architecture, the Public Finance and Management Act has ample architecture to look at pilfering and other misdemeanors in the Executive and local government.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the logical conclusion of that is because of all the endemic corruption that is in our nation, I will give examples. Right now, in the public arena there is a dispute about a US$200 000 loan that has been advanced to the Hon. Minister of ICT. There is also the very sordid issue of tender procedures that were flouted, by Ministers again not by Hon. Ministers who are brothers of Hon. Minister Kasukuwere, in the tenders that involve electricity infrastructure. There is also the famed issue of the US$15 billion; the list is endless. The logical conclusion of Hon. Chasi’s argument is that every minute now, we must be fast tracking Bills around tender procedures, electricity infrastructure, the ICT and the US$15 billion.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we have a Committee of this august House, the Public Accounts Committee which is responsible for that. In any event, this Bill does not seek to replace and repeal those other provisions that we have including the criminal law. There are still criminal offences that people can be arrested for, it does not become urgent if there is suspicion of pilfering in local authorities. There is corruption in Government Ministries as among Government Ministers themselves and that cannot therefore be the reason why we must fast track Bills because there is suspicion in local authorities. The law has an opportunity to take its course.
In conclusion, this august House must remember the only power that we have as Parliament is to hold Hon. Ministers to account. We must not submit ourselves willingly to a noose for no reason at all. There is no justification, especially for a Bill for amendments that we have not seen. I only have seen them because I am in the Parliamentary Legal Committee. However, Hon. Members, we will be making a laughing stock of ourselves if we agree to pass amendments at breakneck speed with our minds and our eyes closed. That is not the purpose of this Parliament. With that reason, I object Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order point of correction. The
Bill was put in the pigeonholes this morning at Nine O’clock a.m. and it is only eleven pages.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on a point of procedure to say that last week the Minister gave notice that he will seek the leave of the House to suspend the motion and introduce his Bill, as per Standing Order Number 204. If you read Standing Order Number
204 it says, “Save as is provided in Standing Order Number 49, any Standing or Sesssional Order or Orders of the House may only be suspended upon Motion moved after notice:” The Minister fully satisfied that requirement last week by giving that notice.
It goes on to say that, “Provided in cases of urgent necessity of which the Speaker must be the judge,” not the members, “any such Order or Orders may with leave of the House be suspended upon Motion moved without notice.”.
So if you look at what the Minister said and relate it to this Section 204, everything that he did is above the law. He did everything according to our procedure and if you go to Section 139 of our Standing
Orders it says, “Not more than one stage of a Bill must be taken at the same sitting without the leave of the House.” The Minister sought the leave of the House, so what Hon. Gonese said that we cannot do it in one sitting is false, according to our Standing Orders…
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Mr. Speaker, on a point order, with all due respect …
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of which Order?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: In terms of the privileges that I am entitled - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – In terms of the privileges that I am entitled to as a Member of Parliament in this august House I stand to say is Hon. Ziyambi lecturing the Speaker to the effect that the Speaker is not aware, or is he addressing a workshop? What is he trying to imply to an Advocate who is the Speaker of this House? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mutseyami, the Hon.
Member was quoting specific Sections of our Standing Orders. In your reply or point of order, you should also have quoted a Section. Hon.
Ziyambi, you may proceed.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I was trying to implore the House to the fact that the Minister sought leave to suspend the motion, he did that. Even if, assuming but not admitting that he did not, of which he did, it is already in the Hansard. If he had not done that, it is the Speaker who has the prerogative to judge what he has said - whether there is urgency or not and not members within the House. I am saying in terms of satisfying the requirements of the law, the Minister has already satisfied the requirements.
The other point that I wanted to point out is Hon. Gonese made reference to the period required by the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC). The period required by the Parliamentary Legal Committee is suspended if we present our report to the House. We are no longer obligated to say we should wait for 21 days when we have finished our business. So whatever happened, the report was tabled in the House and
- [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - The period that is required by the
Parliamentary Legal Committee has been overtaken by operation of law.
The other point is we have a constitutional democracy and if anyone is aggrieved by whatever we have done, they have a constitutional right to go to the Constitutional Court - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - For the Constitutional Court to rule on what has happened. So in so far as what is happening in this
House, at this particular juncture, we have not broken any law and the Minister has done everything above board. I would like to applaud him for giving notice last week, as opposed to doing it today. I thank you. –
[HON. MEMBERS: Haudzoki! You were singing for your supper Ziyambi!] –
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. I love our Prayer and the beauty of our Prayer is that you are the one who normally leads in saying that Prayer to the Lord. In every sitting, we have a contract, not just a contract with men but a contract with the Almighty and that contract is to come here and defend the just government of men. In that contract, we come here to stand on the shoulders of the poor people, the under-privileged that have no voice. We are that voice. So it is in the context of that very important pledge and contract with God and contract with the people of Zimbabwe that I make this submission.
I make these submissions fully aware that my learned brother Hon. Ziyambi has already mentioned the importance of making sure that whatever the Minister does is legal. Yes, the Minister may be traversing on the path of legality, but we must understand that not everything that is within the confines of legality is lawful. I want to say this fully aware of what I am going to motivate.
Hon. Speaker Sir, the Minister has come here to ask for a very important leave which is a sui generis remedy. It is a sui generis remedy, meaning to say it is in a class of its own. When we look at it, you do not just come here and ask us to grant you the leave without giving or telling us the reasons for doing so. We are not robots as parliamentarians - [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – We are not automated bodies as parliamentarians, but are here representing a sense and a thought, conscience within society. It is for that reason that when we are here, we are here to defend those people whom we represent.
This is why I am radically opposed to the prayer by the Minister and I have got five reasons for that. The first reason is that the Constitution of our country, Section 119 (1), gives us the obligation to promote democratic governance. What the Minister is seeking to persuade Parliament to do is to demote democratic governance - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
What the Minister is trying to encourage us to do is to overthrow democratic governance. What the Minister is trying to do is to persuade us to run away from the people and not be accountable to the people - [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!] – What the Minister is trying to do is to torpedo impose and parachuting his ideas on Parliament - [HON.
MEMBERS: Yes!] – and we have a duty to defend the Constitution of
Zimbabwe. Similarly, Section 141 (b) gives us access and I wish Hon. Speaker Sir, if you may protect me. The Hon. Minister is again back to his default setting of thinking about power all the time. There is no G40 here. We are discussing a very important proposal he has made. I hope that he will restrain himself. Section 141 (b) behoves Parliament to make sure that we ensure public involvement of the people in all the processes. Public hearings are just but in part. We are also supposed to take back all these other developments.
For argument’s sake, I wish we could also be able to apply our thought to these things. When we come here, we do not come to waste time. We come here to try and build our nation. Heckling, side tracking and shadow boxing is not going to heal our nation. It is unfortunate that some members have become professional hecklers. They do not come here to give any meaningful debate but just to heckle. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
Hon. Speaker Sir, the request by the Minister is in bad taste. Why is it in bad taste, it is because he has not justified why consultation has become inappropriate in terms of the Constitution. He has not justified why consultations have become impracticable under the circumstances. He has not justified why, from a teleological and purposive interpretation of our laws, he has chosen to take the route that he has taken. I am saying this because we have a doctrine of the separation of powers in this country. The Executive cannot come and invade the space of the Legislature without a justification. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
This is a tried, settled, applied and well established principle in jurisdictions of democracy the world over. When the Executive chooses to come to Parliament, they must have a justifiable reason to infract on the rights that we have and the spaces that we have in terms of the Constitution. The Minister has not done so. So we have no reason and motivation to support him under those circumstances. Not only that, we are also urging the Executive to stop bullying Parliament. Some of us are not willing to be bullied. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
I am saying we are bullied because when the Minister comes here, he took his time from 2013 up until now, but he has come to us overnight and he wants us to suspend everything. Minister, you cannot come to us to suspend...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, address the Minister as...
HON. CHAMISA: I really appreciate you calling me Hon.
Minister. Thank you very much.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, address the Minister as
Honourable. Thank you.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I was just saying to the Hon. Minister, in as much as we respect the Executive processes, the Minister is coming here to ask us to do something that will in effect result in the suspension, not just of the rules, but the suspension of democracy. It is not the suspension of rules but the suspension of accountability to the various constituencies that we have. I can assure you Hon. Speaker Sir that we have a duty to also oppose the fast tract tradition. We must not microwave our Bills. We must not have microwave democracy where we are just coming here and fast track everything on a conveyor belt.
Let us have time to ruminate over and chew the cud on the key issues that are supposed to be deliberated upon. People in Kuwadzana would want to hear what the Bill is all about and they want to hear their take. People in Manicaland and Matabeleland would want to have their take and the Minister is saying those are not important. The views of the Executive are important, to hell with all that, let us just endorse it. We are saying we cannot do it Hon. Speaker Sir. We have a duty to go back to those who gave us the mandate. We have a duty to our people and a duty in terms of our representative democracy to unlock that deliberative aspect of our Parliament. Let us deliberate on these issues instead of you to come and foist it down on our throats without necessarily having time to debate it.
In any case, the Minister has not given a case for urgency or emergency because this is a sui generis as I have said. He has not shown us how the probative value of suspending this is going to outweigh the prejudicial effect. He has not shown us, so it is very difficult for us to just take it at face value. We need the emergency to be there, to be palpable, and not to be self created. The Minister has created urgency. Self created urgency cannot be condoned by us. We are Members of
Parliament. We stand in defence of democracy, freedom and accountable leadership. We need to allow this misconceived approach to be opposed and suspending 32 (5) of our rules entails making sure that the PLC will not sit at its normal times. We are also undermining the threshold of consultation of Members of the PLC on issues that are supposed to be considered.
So, it undermines and erodes our constitutional democracy, more importantly, last but not least, everything we do should pass the constitutional muster. The grundnorm of our Constitution which is the grund norm is that we defend the people we represent. We do not come here to defend the Minister...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Address the Chair please.
HON. CHAMISA: Yes, kana zvandibata zvinondiwisira mumvura honestly. – [Laughter.] - I hear you Hon. Speaker Sir, thank you very much. It is very important for whatever we do to pass the test of constitutionality. I want to say this is the sort of leave that should not be granted at all cost. It flies in the face of democracy, corrodes our freedoms as Parliament and it also undermines the power of the Legislature to play its oversight role on the Executive, angered, tethered, and sinued on the support of the people. Thank you very much.
*HON. MUKWENA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. I am supporting the motion which has been raised by the Minister and I know when this Bill was introduced, there were lots of misunderstandings. Thanks to you. You made us vote and we supported the sides which we wanted and the side which was the side which said the Bill should be debated hence; we followed the rule of the majority.
I stand to support this Bill and this Bill has come at an opportune time. We thank the Hon. Minister for introducing this Bill and all the facets that go with it. There are two issues which we have to think of and your House is divided into two sides. The right side is saying there are problems within the local authorities and these have to be rectified. The Minister has done due diligence, investigations and seen that it is necessary that steps be taken to correct these problems, hence the introduction of this Bill.
As a result, we have stood up to support this Bill and all the steps the Minister is taking to correct that problem and that problem is corruption. So, for how long are we going to sit on this corruption and let it go? We therefore thank you Hon. Minister for bringing this Bill and I am pleading with my fellow Parliamentarians that let us support this Bill.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank all the Hon. Members for their contributions. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are here because we are following the laws of the land. We are here and we have presented this Bill before Parliament in terms of the law.
Hon. Gonese, in his presentation to us, talks about the period. We have followed the periods in terms of the presentation of the Bill and what we are seeking to achieve – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.]- Certainly, and I was going to come to that later, is to bring about order in the local authorities. Mr. Speaker, the amendments that the Hon. Member has talked about are all as a result of his advice to this very Minister. We set with the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC), got their wisdom and counsel and we have implemented all that they wanted us to do. Mr. Speaker, we gazetted this Bill on the 9th of May, 2016 and that certainly gave colleagues ample time to digest and to have a look at the Bill. Certainly the Hon. Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee Hon. Zindi will be reporting to this House on the consultation that she has carried out across the country and with the Members of Parliament as leader of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Gonese asks us why the urgency. Apart from what Hon. Chasi spoke about earlier on, what is in the Auditor-
General’s report, what we have in our Ministry and what we are going through on a daily basis where the majority - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am sure that
colleagues to the right will join me in trying to ensure that there is good governance in this country. Not only in Government at the Executive level, but also in our municipal authorities – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Inaudible interjection.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Mutseyami, we are not discussing ZESA here. We are discussion Local Government. So, let us not divert. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. -
[AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] - It is my privilege. Privilege, privilege. Mr. Speaker Sir, what is obtaining now is that people are no longer giving you your due respect. When Members of the opposition were making their contribution, we were quiet but now the Minister is presenting his speech and the Members of the opposition are heckling. I plead with you Mr. Speaker Sir that may we please have order. Mr. Speaker Sir, may you please maintain peace and order in this House because we have people who have their own set down agenda to disturb the progress of this House. As I am making my contribution, they are heckling me and telling me that I am talking nonsense but their attitude is the one which led them to be defeated in the general elections.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba is quite correct. When Hon. Members were contributing, you were not disturbed, so you have to give respect to the Hon. Minister to reply accordingly. Let us have order.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have said and quite clearly that whatever we are doing here in this room, we are following the rules and regulations. We are following the Standing Rules in terms of the suspension. I have sought leave of the House for us to be able to execute what we think is very important in this country to bring about order in our local authorities. Mr. Speaker Sir, I take it that most of their arguments are political and I take it that most of what they are saying [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - flies in the face of the rule of law following what is agreed in our Standing Orders and I am worried and I cannot understand. I am sure no wonder why we must have more urgency – this level of chaos and refusal to accept for us to bring out order in our country’s sanity shows that my colleagues have a lot to hide. If they had nothing to hide, they would not be making this amount of noise. Hon. Mudzuri in his presentation …
*HON. P.D. SIBANDA: On a point of Order Mr. Speaker.
Thank you Mr. Speaker. My point of order is based on Order No. 68. We plead with the Minister to tell us the reasons where the urgency of his motion lies? He is talking about the Auditor-General’s report and there were lots of these audit reports. Therefore, what we may need is that we look at all the Auditor’s reports which were produced. The Minister should start by informing us that the Auditor-General introduced her report regarding Local Authorities and how they were looked into. We also have to look at the Bills which may be corresponding to that and maybe if he does that, we will be able to know why he says this is an urgent matter. We thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, the Minister is going to explain all these things which we are talking about, let us give him the chance.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE]:
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Eng. Mudzuri raised issues to do with the constitutionality of what we are doing and I am sure this House cannot make a ruling in terms of the constitutionality of what we are talking about. If he feels aggrieved, certainly the Constitutional Court is there for him to go.
I want to thank Hon. Chasi for his contribution and I am happy that he has also pointed out issues that are of concern to all of us. My dear sister Hon. Majome, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is ironic that in her arguments, again there is no legal question that she is putting across, save for the political desire. It is a fact that she launched a ‘stop Kasukuwere campaign’ which did not get the attraction she expected. We are here to discuss now about exactly what we think is right in curing the ills in the City of Harare. She is correct, she lives in Harare and is a resident of
Harare but quite sympathetic to the corruption in the City of Harare –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I think…
HON. MAJOME: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MAJOME: Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is wrong for the Hon. Minister to abuse the opportunity you gave him to make unsubstantiated and very scurrilous remarks about my person and my character. I would wish him to actually substantiate because it is highly defamatory and it is actually false. I think it is totally out of order, can he withdraw that or actually substantiate it because I do not support corruption. He must substantiate it.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister, the statement – ‘I
think that she is sympathetic to corruption’ needs to be withdrawn because we have no evidence to that effect.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE]:
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member of Parliament is not sympathetic to corruption. I withdraw and I am adding to say that she is not sympathetic at all to corruption.
Mr. Speaker, on the last contribution, I want to thank Hon. Ziyambi for chronicling the journey that we have travelled in terms of bringing forward this Bill, what we have done, how much we have followed all the processes. Hon. Chamisa, my dear friend, I am sure -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members - that little group there has to observe the decorum of the House. Secondly, we are not allowed to eat in here. If you are diabetic, you get out of the House.
Thank you – [HON. CHIBAYA: NdiDingani arikudya.] –
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE]:
Mr. Speaker Sir, I listened intently to my colleague Adv. Chamisa and accepted there is no animus contrahendi. I listened to the Advocate who is a renowned lawyer in this country but there was no law that he spoke about except an early campaign. I am not sure what he is campaigning for and I do not want to associate it with – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - As I listened,
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker, there
are two issues that I want to raise..
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of which order?
HON. MARIDADI: Privileges – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Let him
speak, you allowed Hon. Chinotimba to speak on a similar matter, this is not fair.] - Privileges in terms of Standing Order 68 (d). We are here deliberating on a very important Bill and I think the Hon. Minister is supposed to address substantive issues; substantive issue is what the Minister is supposed to address. Also Mr. Speaker, the Minister says that if Hon. Mudzuri can approach the Constitutional Court.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, the Hon. Minister was
responding to Hon. Chamisa. So, you cannot debate that..
HON. MARIDADI: No, no, no.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you stick to the response to Hon.
Chamisa. Respond to a point of privilege on what Hon. Chamisa said.
HON. MARIDADI: I said two issues, one raised by Hon.
Chamisa and the other raised by Hon. Mudzuri.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, you cannot do that. Address one
thing.
HON. MARIDADI: The Hon. Minister said you can approach the Constitutional Court and I am saying, why does the Minister want to abrogate the responsibilities of Parliament of making laws to the Constitutional Court. It is a responsibility of Parliament to make laws and you cannot abrogate those responsibilities to the Constitutional Court. The Minister must take note of that, I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE]:
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I agree with my dear colleague, Hon.
Chamisa – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members at the back there.
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE]: I
agree with my dear colleague Hon. Chamisa, we are in agreement in terms of the need for good governance in the country. Chapter 2, Section 9, the Constitution speaks about good governance and subsection (b) states that, “measures must be taken to expose, combat and eradicate all forms of corruption and abuse of power by those holding political and public offices”. Mr. Speaker Sir, we cannot take any day longer in trying to bring about order in our local authorities. I say so with full knowledge of what is happening, be it from the rural level up to the urban centre level. We must fight corruption in this country. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. GONESE: Divide the House – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: I hear Hon. Gonese but I want to refer
you to Standing Order No. 125 (2). Do you have it? In terms of that ection, if however, the Chair is of the opinion that a division is unnecessarily claimed or is an abuse of the rules or misuse of the forms of the House, he or she must decline to direct that division and must immediately declare the resolution of the House or the Committee as the case may be. So I declare. Therefore, the question is accordingly affirmed.
HON. GONESE: The provisions which the Hon. Speaker has
cited, I think there should be a logical basis for arriving at that conclusion. This is a different question because this is a question which goes to the root of constitutional order as Honourable Members on this side of the House have pointed out. There is a very strong possibility that Members will vote differently on this fundamental issue. It is my respectful submission – my point is to have a logical basis for the Chair to arrive at that conclusion that this is an abuse of process. I am seeking that clarification so that the Chair can appraise on what is the logical basis for coming to that conclusion.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Those who are opposed to the decision
of the Chair, can they show by rising on their feet. All MDC Hon. Member rose in their places.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of the previous count it would appear the voting pattern has not changed. Yes, it has not changed –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
Mr. Speaker…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, can you address the
Chair.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to say…–
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, address the Chair.
Order, order!
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Mr. Speaker, I do not have that talent of a very loud voice. That is why I wait for them to cool down.
Anyway Mr. Speaker Sir, why I rise, I rise to say we want to respect your ruling, but what we are looking at here is we are making history. We strongly feel – I personally feel we are breaking the law and we must be able to count those who are here in this House and those who are not, who feel that we are betraying the basis of our being in this Parliament. So, the numbers and the names will show who is working for the nation and who is not – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Order, order! While I agree with Hon. Mudzuri, you must, at the back of your mind, also think of the time that we are consuming, against the time… – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, order! On the balance of scales and probabilities, the number that stood up is 35/46 compared to the previous, so I do not want us to be frivolous in this regard – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*HON. MURAI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you Mr. Speaker…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, I have not recognised this side. I
recognise this side. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. You made a ruling according to our Standing Orders and you read the section very well. In the wording, the import of it, does not say that you are supposed to go on and on explaining. So, if you are to stand by our Standing Orders, the Speaker has already made a ruling. Why are we going in circles, unless if you are telling us, Hon. Speaker, that from today on, if you make a ruling, we are supposed to ignore that ruling and we debate on your ruling. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I did not say I am going to change my ruling. Yes, it is as simple as that. I was asked for logic and I gave the logic in terms of numericals.
*HON. MURAI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. You had recognised me – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, I am not taking you. I am not taking you.
HON. MURAI: Thank you. Maita basa.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. I have got a very important point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Honourable, I have made my ruling. No
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. GONESE: It is a different dimension. Mr. Speaker, it is a different dimension.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is a different what?
HON. GONESE: It is a different dimension Mr. Speaker. I just want to find out on which basis, on which Standing Order is the Chair ruling that the Chair is not going to recognise further points of order because you had recognised Hon. Murai and then you said no, you are recognising that side and after recognising that side – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
I am asking which Standing Order. Hon. Speaker, you gave the impression that after recognising Hon. Ziyambi you would then recognise Hon. Murai and then all of a sudden, you then said that you are not recognising him. So, I am asking, in terms of what Standing Order you are preceding, Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.]–
THE HON. SPEAKER: Okay, okay. You have made your point. Order, order! I think Hon. Gonese, you must have missed it in terms of memory. I recognise Hon. Mudzuri after my ruling. So, it is not correct for you to say I recognised Hon. Ziyambi and then – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Can you sit down? Can we have order? I am aware of the emotional issues that are – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order!
SECOND READING
LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 1, 2016] Second Order read: Second Reading: Local Government Laws
Amendment Bill [H.B. 1, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir - [HON. MEMBERS: Point of order! Point
of order!] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, I am not accepting any point of order - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - No point of order. Hon. Minister, carry on.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill has been necessitated by the enactment of the Constitution of Zimbabwe … - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you sit down? - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
HON. KASUKUWERE: … Amendment Act Number 20…-
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you sit down? Can you sit down?
HON. KASUKUWERE: … in particular Section 278 (2) and (3) which provides as follows - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - (a) An Act of Parliament must provide for the establishment of an independent tribunal to exercise the function of removing from office mayors, chairpersons and councillors but any such removal must be - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE)
(SPK..) must be on the grounds of inability to perform the functions of local councils, physical incapacity, gross incompetence, gross misconduct, conviction of an offence of dishonesty – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Mr. Speaker Sir, in view of the above, I hereby submit the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill for consideration. I beg leave of the House that the Bill be now read a second time. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Can you sit down?
HON. GONESE: I am raising a matter of privilege Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you put your people in order, you
are the Chief Whip.
HON. GONESE: I have a matter of privilege Mr. Speaker. As the Chief Whip of the Opposition, I think you should hear me also.
THE HON. SPEAKER: As Chief Whip also, can you make sure
that your members are orderly?
HON. GONESE: That is the point I want to address Mr. Speaker. I think we all want to have order in this House and we are very desirous of having this Bill proceed through all the procedures and processes. What is causing the problem is that when Hon. Ziyambi stood at the same time with Hon. Murai, you gave an indication that you were going to give Hon. Murai the floor. I think this is where the problem arose.
I also asked in terms of which Standing Order you were….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. GONESE: We are also desirous of proceeding in
accordance with all the procedures of this august House. I think that is where the problem arose. There are two issues I would like to raise, the first point is what I have already mentioned about Hon. Murai, I do not know what point of order he had and I believe that it is within his right to allow him to raise the point –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
I have not finished. I have a second point to make. Hon. Speaker Sir, I think for us to be able to maintain order, we have got to hear each other. Let us listen to each other Mr. Speaker so that we get to the same wavelength level. All I am saying is that in the past, Members have raised points of orders, if they are frivolous, you rule accordingly, but there are times you can anticipate that someone is going to raise a frivolous and vexatious point of order yet that point of order might have substance. I believe Mr. Speaker, for us to be able to proceed, it is important to hear Hon. Murai out.
Secondly, I saw the Hon. Minister handing over the speech, we did not hear the Second Reading speech. We did not hear anything and I think we also want to be able to debate. There are two issues, there was no Second Reading effectively Mr. Speaker. I think it is important to allow order to prevail first, then the Hon. Minister – I propose that Hon. Murai be given the opportunity, after he is done, the Hon. Minister can then proceed with his Second Reading speech which we can all hear, so that we are able to respond substantively to the matters which he will have said. As of now, we are totally in the dark as to what is the substance of his Second Reading speech. Therefore, I implore you Hon. Speaker, to use your wisdom and to allow us to be able to proceed and I beg you Mr. Speaker. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Gonese, you spoke very well but the Hon. Chair must accord the Hon. Member the respect but if Hon. Members stand there in fours; fives and so on, saying point of order; point of order, that is not correct. Hon. Sibanda, you are one of those who are shouting, point of order. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, please sit down. Hon. Chibaya, ahh mune experience yakakura chaizvo. You have a lot of experience in Parliamentary business, look at the Chair. What I was saying is that the point of order, with all due respect, was overtaken by events. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Murai having stood up to raise a point of order
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you overruling the Chair? I have not recognised you. Can you take your seat? – [HON. GONESE: Hazvina kumira mushe.] – I was going to say Hon. Gonese – ehe hazvina kumira mushe chaizvo. Hon. Gonese, I hear your plea, but for this time may I ask you respectfully that if we may proceed, but I take note of what you said. I am addressing Hon. Gonese.
HON. GONESE: For the sake of progress Mr. Speaker, I feel very strongly and have no reason to believe that Hon. Murai’s point of order
is frivolous and vexatious. I believe that the point of order may also have a lot of validity and I am just asking you for the sake of progress to allow him to have his say and then you rule accordingly as is your prerogative.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why do you not say the opposite, that
for the sake of progress we agreed that he was not going to...
HON. GONESE: No, no, no. I do not know Mr. Speaker, but I think that we will be able to move forward if you allow him and we hear what he has to say. I believe that after we have heard him, we will be able to judge as to whether he was simply standing up for the sake of disruption or he had a valid point to make. So, I am asking you Mr.
Speaker to allow him.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, I agree. Can your Hon. Members behave, you are the Chief Whip?
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. That was my plea Mr. Speaker to have Hon. Murai who had stood up to have his say and you can judge properly as to whether it is appropriate for him in terms of whether he has something of substance. Thereafter, we will be able to move forward.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am seeking the guidance of the Chair and my question is, if the Speaker seems to be partisan, what should the House do with the Speaker. This is because he is showing that he has an inclination to one side and we have no progress due to the Speaker’s attitude. He is supporting one side against the other.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! You make a point of
order and start shouting again. I am going to ask you to go out now.
* Let me respond to Hon. Murai’s point of order. The Hon. Speaker is one person who can handle any polygamous situation because he is very impartial.
There was a lot of shouting when the Hon. Minister gave his Second Reading and we want to capture it properly. Hon. Minister, if you can do your Second Reading.
SECOND READING
LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 1, 2016]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Local Government Laws
Amendment Bill [H.B. 1, 2016].
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
The Local Government Laws Amendment Bill has been necessitated by the enactment of the Constitution of Zimbabwe Amendment Act (No. 20) 2013, in particular Section 278 (2) and (3) which provides as follows;
(2) An Act of Parliament must provide for the establishment of an independent tribunal to exercise the function of removing from office mayors, chairperson and councillors but any such removal must be on the grounds of -
- inability to perform the functions of that office due to mental or physical incapacity;
- gross incompetence;
- gross misconduct
- Conviction of an offence involving dishonesty, corruption or abuse of office; or
- willful violation of the law, including a local authority by-law.
(3) A mayor, chairperson or councillor of a local authority does not vacate his or her seat except in accordance with this section.
Pending the finalisation of the new Local Government Act which is currently with the Attorney General’s office, there is need to align the
Urban Councils Act [Chapter 29:15] and the Rural District Councils Act [Chapter 29:13] – (hereinafter referred to as Acts) to the provisions of the new Constitution. This matter is urgent in light of the increasing number of cases of corruption, mismanagement, insubordination and other ills that are being exposed in various local authorities particularly urban. We are also complying with the Justice Bere judgement whereby he directed that the tribunal be established.
The current Local Government Act, as read with the Constitution, allows for the 45 day suspension of errant councillors but are out of line with the spirit of the new Constitution when it comes to the conclusion of the disciplinary action. This has in essence created a free for all in local authorities.
As we speak, a number of shocking cases of maladministration and corruption have been uncovered by the Ministries following reports from concerned and desperate members of the public and residents associations:-
- A councilor, in connivance with council plumber, has by passed his water meter and those of his cronies, thereby prejudicing his own council of revenue for a service rendered.
- A councillor used funds meant for a council medical aid society to pay for personal university tuition.
- A councillor has awarded himself more than 20 stands in a single term, as yet uncompleted, in office.
- A councillor has sold council land and pocketed the proceeds.
- A councillor who was unlawfully driving a council vehicle and had an accident, framed a driver for the offence.
- Several local authorities are also still operating without approved 2016 Budgets in violation of the Public Finance Management Act. Many are up to four years behind in the audit cycle.
Such acts defy the basic values and principles of public administration as espoused in the Constitution and cannot be left unchecked.
Mr. Speaker, the Constitution provides for Cabinet to prepare, initiate and implement national legislation. As Ministers responsible for the Urban Councils and Rural District Councils Act, it is imperative that, in order to effect the entire Act, provision is made to sanction those who willfully violate parts thereof. There is need to clarify that the establishment of local authorities does not in any way impinge on the constitutional powers of Central Government to enforce compliance to national legislation.
This proposed legislation has put in place measures to ensure the independence of the tribunal by having reputable bodies nominate the members thereof. I must also bring to your attention the fact that where a councillor is aggrieved by a perceived lack of independence of members of the tribunal, she or he has the right to raise this in an appeal.
May I point out that this legislation will cover all 1 958 councillors in the 92 Rural District Councils. Currently, councillors across the political divide, including several from my own party; have cases pending hearing from this tribunal.
To this end, there is an urgent need to amend the respective Acts to restore order, protect the public from abuse and misuse of council property and funds and to restore public confidence in their local authorities.
The Memorandum of Principles for the Local Government Laws
Amendment Bill was approved by Cabinet on the 26th of April 2016.
My Ministry has finalised the drafting of the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill incorporating the new constitutional requirements in relation to the discipline of mayors, chairpersons and councillors.
It is in view of the above that I hereby submit the Local
Government Laws Amendment Bill for consideration. I therefore, move that the Bill be read a second time.
HON. ZINDI: Thank you Mr. Speaker
INTRODUCTION
The Local Government Laws Amendment Bill (H.B. 1, 2016) was gazetted on 9 May 2016. Consequently, the Bill stood referred to the Committee on Local Government, Rural and Urban Development compelling the Committee to exercise its function of scrutinizing bills in order to make the necessary recommendations. The Bill seeks to amend the Rural District Councils Act [Chapter 29:13] and the Urban Councils Act [Chapter 29:15] so as to align certain provisions of the Acts with section 278 (2) and (3) of the Constitution which provides that an Act of
Parliament must provide for the establishment of an independent tribunal to exercise the function of removing from office mayors, chairpersons and councillors on specified grounds.
METHODOLOGY
This report is a product of an analysis of the Bill by the Committee informed by written submissions from the public and hearings held with members of the public and stakeholders in Mutare, Masvingo,
Bulawayo, Gweru, Harare, Karoi, Chinhoyi, Mvurwi, Mutoko, Murewa,Macheke, Lupane, Gwanda, Umguza and Plumtree. The hearings were held from 13 to 16 and 22 and 23 June 2016, in fulfillment of Section 141 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe which provides as follows:
Parliament must ensure that interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament, unless such consultation is inappropriate or impracticable
The Committee expresses its sincere appreciation to all stakeholders who attended and participated at the public hearings and many others who made written submissions. Regrettably, there were disruptions and violence at the public hearings in Harare with the hearing at the Rainbow Towers proceeding after being halted for some time and the hearing in Highfield having to be abandoned completely.
SUBMISSIONS FROM THE PUBLIC
POWERS OF THE MINISTER
Some members of the public were of the sentiments that the Bill confers too much power to the Minister, which is inconsistent with the provisions of section 278 of the Constitution. They argued that the Constitution does not give the Minister the powers to suspend or remove a Councillor, Chairperson or Mayor of a local authority. It was pointed out that Chapter 14 of the Constitution speaks to the devolution of power from the central government to the local authority. The Bill, if enacted in its present form, will be in violation of Chapter 14 of the Constitution.
Some were of the view that the Minister should be conferred such powers to suspend, and or remove a councillor, chairperson or mayor from office who has committed acts of gross misconduct, corruption or abuse of public office as he is the head of local authorities. They expressed satisfaction with the Bill and argued that the Minister should have power vested in him as the head of local authorities to remove mayors, councillors, or chairpersons from office for failing to perform their duties.
Another view was that the Minister must consult the local people before suspending and the need for the Minister to investigate thoroughly before suspending or removing a councillor, mayor or chairperson from office was emphasised, citing that sometimes a Minister might act on a matter of grudges and not wrong doing.
APPOINTMENT OF INDEPENDENT TRIBUNAL
The establishment of an Independent Tribunal was hailed as a good idea but the Minister should not appoint members of the Tribunal to avoid partisan and nepotism appointments. It was suggested that a
Parliamentary Committee should be responsible for the appointment of Tribunal members and it must be reflective of political divide and gender composition. It was also proposed that the Secretariat to service the Tribunal should come from Parliament to ensure its independence and the Tribunal should report to Parliament.
It was proposed that the Minister must be a complainant and must report to the Tribunal the allegations leveled against chairperson, councillor and mayor in matters involving misconduct, corruption and abuse of power. Members of the tribunal must investigate allegations and report its findings to the Minister.
Another suggestion was that the members of the Tribunal be nominated elected at the local level and be responsive to the needs of the locals. Residents Association were of the view that residents should be consulted in the suspension or removal from office of councillor, mayor or chairperson because they are the ones who voted them into power.
They felt that their importance was not recognised in the Bill.
Some were of the view that the Tribunal must be set by the Minister who has an oversight and supervisory role to the local authority so that accountability is achieved. The powers of the Minister to suspend or remove councillors, chairpersons or mayors were welcomed citing that the Minister is needed to supervise his Ministry so as to curb corruption. It was argued that the Minister has a right to choose members of the tribunal.
Some participants proposed that the remuneration of members of the Tribunal must be determined by Parliament and that it must be published in the Government Gazette. It was pointed out that there was no justification for a council that is being investigated to pay for the expenses of a Tribunal which has been appointed by the Minister. The funds should go towards service delivery and the remuneration of the Tribunal be paid by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
The Bill was said to be silent on the time frame for the resolution of a matter referred to Tribunal and therefore a time frame should be set. Some members of the public were of the view that the life of the tribunal need not necessarily be ad hoc.
Another view was that there is no need to set a tribunal. The Minister was said to be qualified enough and has been given the power to run the affairs of local authorities. They argued that setting of a tribunal is an unnecessary cost. Some members of the public also argued that those who commit crimes should be reported to police and if found guilty, be arrested and therefore no need for the Minister or Tribunal to be involved in matters that the police are qualified to deal with.
Some members of the public felt that the Tribunal must be set up by the Provincial Councils.
Some members of the public felt that the Minister should not have power to remove members of the Tribunal as that undermines its independence.
ALIGNMENT OF THE BILL TO THE CONSTITUTION
Some members of the public said that the draft Bill is unconstitutional as it addresses two issues and is silent on the wholesome local government laws that need to be aligned to the Constitution. Some members of the public even accused the proposed amendment to be seeking to replicate provisions of Section 114 of the Urban Councils Act.
Alignment of local government laws should start with setting up of provincial and metropolitan councils. They were disappointed that the Bill addressed the issue of suspension or removal and ignored the issue of devolution of power as outlined in the Constitution.
Some accused the proposed Bill of replacing the powers of the
Minister to control the local authorities that were taken away by Chapter 14 of the Constitution. The Bill was said to be unconstitutional and should align with the Constitution. It was argued that the Minister decided to act on two issues only when the nation was waiting for alignment of all local government issues and it seems the Bill is meant to address some grievances that the Minister has with certain mayors. It was further argued that it was not an ideal situation to come up with a law to deal with certain individuals. A holistic approach is needed and not piece meal alignment.
It was also submitted that the Minister should not combine the Urban Councils and Rural District Councils Acts citing that the operations of Urban Councils and Rural Councils are different.
It was proposed that the Minister should implement the
Constitution as it is by setting up provincial and metropolitan councils so that councils will be responsible for monitoring developments in their area of jurisdiction. The Bill was said to be an excuse by the Minister to justify what he has been doing and the public hearings were also an excuse to rubber stamp the Minister’s actions.
Some participants expressed satisfaction with the Bill in its form and noted that it was long overdue. They felt that if the Bill had been enacted earlier, councillors, mayors or chairpersons would perform their duties well.
Other Issues Raised by the Public
Members of the public complained that the publicity was not adequate and urged Parliament to look for better ways to inform the people of public hearings. People from the rural areas said they do not have access to newspapers and chances of seeing an advertisement are minimal.
Lack of copies of the Bill and the Constitution was raised. People were not able to contribute meaningfully because they did not know the issues. They urged Parliament to make enough copies and to distribute them in advance.
Parliament was also urged to start advertising public hearings two weeks before the event….
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Madam Speaker, I move that debate do now adjourn. – [HON. MEMBERS: Why?] - Madam Speaker, there are a lot of very important contributions being raised by the Committee and I am sure we also have to take into account some of the views that were raised by Hon.
Members to my right.
Like Hon. Chamisa said earlier, we want to chew the cud. I so move Madam Speaker.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 29th June, 2016.
On the motion of THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER, the House
adjourned at Seven Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 23rd June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until all the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CHALLENGES IN WORKING RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN
MEDICAL AID SOCIETIES, AHFoZ AND PROVIDERS OF
HEALTH CARE SERVICES
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Yesterday I promised that I would make a Ministerial Statement on the situation and challenges between the health insurers and health care providers and the way forward.
Hon. Speaker Sir, of late you have heard, largely through the media, of challenges in the working relationships between medical aid societies and representatives of individuals or by the Association of Health Care Funders of Zimbabwe called (AHFoZ) and providers of health care services particularly doctors as represented by the Zimbabwe Medical Association (ZiMA). The challenges as seen from the providers, that means the doctors and others, arise mainly from the following areas.
- There have been disagreements over tariffs for various areas of service provision.
- Payment by insurance to providers based on the insurers preferred tariff rate.
- Delays in meeting payment for services rendered.
- Referral of clients by insurers to preferred networks of providers in their clinical and laboratory facilities.
- Conflict of interests by insurers by way of building, owning and running medical and dental clinics, hospitals, pharmacies, laboratories, radiological centres, rehabilitation units, optician clinics and other related health centres.
- There has been disregard of gazetted fees by the insurers.
- Unfair and crippling taxation and recovery practices by ZIMRA based on claims lodged by providers to insurers which claims are yet unpaid and outstanding at time of taxation.
I will now go to the challenges as seen from the insurers and this is their own perspective:
- There has been disagreement over tariffs for various areas of services provision.
- Charges by providers that are way beyond what the insurers can afford.
- Demands by providers from patients for cash payment upfront while the clients are holding valid insurance cards.
So, discussion on the above mentioned issues, some of which are now long standing in nature have been ongoing albeit very slowly with a resultant near stalemate situation. Last week, ZiMA announced that they will, with effect from the 1st July, 2016, stop accepting medical aid cards and charge cash all patients seen by their constituency. The trigger situation to this is the taxation and subsequent garnishing of providers’ accounts by ZIMRA for tax obligations which are deemed due based on the act of submission of a claim by a provider to an insurer regardless of whether this has been paid or not.
Providers claim and having in some instances provided a proof that their claims usually remained un-paid for periods in excess of the statutory 60 days and sometimes for periods of up to 6 months or more. Resultantly, providers felt they were being taxed for what they have not earned. Clarification with ZIMRA indicated that ZIMRA was acting within the law and the challenge was in fact between the provider and the insurer and could therefore not absolve providers of the obligations for taxation; its timing, the resultant default status and the garnishing of accounts thereof.
To get out of this technicality and its consequences, the providers then decided on resorting to cash charges as announced until such a time that their insurers where ready to meet their obligations in a timeous manner. This situation will obviously disadvantage and stress the client who is rightfully insured but has to be exposed to out of pocket expenditures. As a regulatory authority, my Ministry called for an urgent meeting to resolve the looming crisis and we had a marathon meeting of three and a half hours to prevent further deterioration of the situation. An important stakeholder, the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa, was present at this meeting. The matters detailed as before were tabled and discussed. We all realised some issues needed more time and further engagement but we sort to immediately avert the potential crisis that will be ushered in by the cash up position. We therefore implored ZiMA to give engagement more time. The Minister of Finance and Economic Development would look into how the taxation timing issue could be handled and the insurance were going to scrap the preferred provider approach and for those in arrears to work towards a framework to pay for claims within the statutory 60 days.
Both the providers as represented by ZiMA and the insurers as represented by AHFoZ as well as individually for some sort to reprieve to feed back their constituencies and revert to me with agreed positions on the proposed way forward. The discussion during which we all agreed on the need to protect the interest of the innocent client and patient were candid and frank. I am optimistic that ZiMA will give due consideration to our plea and I expect feedback on Monday, 27th June. We also agreed and committed to meet more regularly and address all the contentious areas methodically, including the regulatory provisions to address some grey areas not well articulated in the current Statutory Instrument.
To this end, my Ministry has embarked on the process of crafting a Bill for regulation of medical aid societies. The principles have been passed by Cabinet and the drafting process has started. We will consult widely in that process. I will keep this august House updated. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We also want
to thank the Minister for the statement. In his statement, the Minister appears to be getting towards a solution. However, I just need some two clarifications. Firstly, why did the situation have to deteriorate to the level where ZiMA have threatened not to accept medical aid cards whilst you were there? Were you not informed or privy of the situation that there was disagreement between the insurers and the health providers? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Secondly, you seem to indicate that part of your solution is that insurers must meet their obligations within the statutorily provided timeframe. How will the insurers be able to do that looking at the fact that most of the employers including Government is not remitting the deductions that are taken from members to the insurers? How then do you expect the insurers to meet their obligations on time?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Minister, I
heard you say that the Ministry wants to develop a policy. I wanted to find out how long it will take for them to develop that policy? What measures have they taken into consideration in order to expedite the process? How long will it take to craft the policy because people are suffering? That is what I would like to understand, since he mentioned that he wants to develop a policy to ensure that it does not deteriorate to a situation that was referred to by Hon. P. D. Sibanda because this is now an effect of what happened. So, how long will it take because Members of Parliament from both sides agreed that, yes, people are dying and we expect you to expedite that policy and I do not think any of the Members of Parliament will be against this policy. We want that policy crafted as soon as possible.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I need a clarification on the issue of ZIMRA and our medical doctors. He spoke about ZIMRA requiring payment on claims that have not been paid and I think it is an issue that can be resolved urgently because under the current economic environment, you cannot expect a doctor who has not been paid to go to the bank to get a loan to pay ZIMRA when he has not been paid. If it can be addressed quickly, maybe our doctors can work and allow the other issues to be resolved in due course. He did not clarify exactly as to what was the position of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development and ZIMRA in that regard because I think that is an issue that the Executive can take up and make a resolution quickly.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: When we do budgets in this august House, normally we prioritise as Members of Parliament health delivery and the education sector. I want to find out whether you are being allocated the monies which you are supposed to be allocated in the Ministry. What do you prioritise on because now, this is affecting or costing the nation?
HON. HOLDER: I just wanted some clarification from the
Minister of Health and Child Care regarding the subscriptions that are contributed by individuals to Medical Aid Societies. For instance, civil servants and Members of Parliament know that Treasury through SSB, deducts medical aid contributions – is the money going to the medical aid companies or not? Secondly, is it true that Parirenyatwa Hospital for sometime was not accepting PSMAS medical aid cards. I just need a clarification on that.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Excellency, for this
opportunity.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Did you say Excellency?
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Yes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That title is used in the Middle East and West Africa. The Honourable Speaker is Honourable Speaker.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Mr. Speaker Sir, first I want to thank
the Minister for his wise statement. We all know that he is a registered medical practitioner but he has risen above that interest and showed that the statement is really balanced. I want to thank him very much for his balanced statement but I have some clarifications that I am seeking.
The first clarification is that normally when ZIMA and AHFoZ fail to agree on a particular tariff the practice has been that they agree on a temporary co-payment which will be paid by patients over and above the acceptance of the medical aid. In this relation, can the Minister help the two parties to agree on a reasonable co-payment which does not hurt patients in order to break the impasse?
The second question is, I do not know what is wrong with Medical Aid Societies investing in the economy, for example, building clinics, hospitals and pathology facilities because it is an investment which helps the public sector that cannot provide these services. So, if you have got funds that can be invested to build those facilities, it is better because it will serve the nation. You find that some Medical Aid Societies will actually abuse membership subscriptions but if they can invest in medical infrastructure, I thought that is helping the country as a whole.
The other question is, is the Minister aware that doctors also through ZIMA, have not helped the situation. At times, they have been pushing up the costs of medical aid because they have been over servicing clients. That practice of over servicing clients to maximise on their earnings has to be investigated. You find that a patient can go to a doctor and present himself or herself with flu symptoms but what the doctor does now, is to prescribe a lot of unnecessary medicine on a simple symptom like flu. It is a rampant practice –[HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Hon. Dr. Parirenyatwa will know what I am talking about. So, I think you can educate us on that trend. I thank you.
HON. MLILO: It is good to note that our Minister of Health and Child Care is taking action with regards to the worsening health woes in the country. I would like to applaud him for that. I would like to believe as well that the measures he is prescribing are more of long term. In the interim, what is it that your Ministry is doing to create an ease of access to health facilities for these people that are on medical aid and at the same time, what is the Ministry doing to decongest the already congested hospitals because most doctors are now turning away patients and they are ending up going to seek attention in Government hospitals. I thank you.
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: Honourable Minister, you talked of the
disregard of approved tariffs and indeed, this has been going on for a very long time. Is that not a criminal offence? Certainly, it is and what are you doing as a Ministry to try and protect the public?
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I was worried because I am the mover of this motion. I wish to draw …
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is the worry about; I have recognised you and you should be very happy.
HON. MARIDADI: I was worried because it was too long in coming Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to draw the Minister’s attention to a number of issues. Firstly, can you explain to us the cost structure of health delivery in Zimbabwe in relation to other countries? I say this because I have heard that the health delivery cost in Zimbabwe is very high as compared to other countries. I would like the Hon Minister to address that.
Secondly, I also want to refer the Hon. Minister to issues of antitrust laws and conflict of interest as well as competition because when the Minister gave his statement, he raised a number of contentious issues. One of them is that there are preferred service providers by health insurers and those health providers are the people who own those health provision facilities. That is a matter that was raised by the Minister and was also raised in my interview with the doctors. I would like the Minister to address that. My solution however is that, because there is disagreement on the tariff to be paid by the insurers and tariff that doctors accept, can you not then find specialists like actuaries who can look at the tariff and come up with a win-win situation for both the doctors, medical insurers and the general public. There are so many people that are keen to help the Ministry in this country.
Lastly, the people that I am talking about are players in a football match. The most important person in a football match is the man in the middle, the referee who in this case is the Minister. With all due respect, Minister, you must always be on the ball. We do not want the situation to deteriorate.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, just a minor
reminder. Our Standing Orders advise that we refer to the Ministers as
Hon. Ministers all the time. Thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: The Hon. Minister is the most important
person in this whole issue because he is the referee in terms of gazetting tariffs, adherence to the tariffs and calling to order those that disregard tariffs. The Hon Minister is the man in the middle and he must continue to play his role. Thank you Hon. Minister, Dr. Parirenyatwa.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Just to remind you that it is Munengami and not Muvengami.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Oh ndicharipa.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Mondisimudzawo kakawanda musi
wechitatu semuripo wacho. - [ Laughter.] - Thank you Hon. Speaker. I also want to thank the Hon. Minister, Dr. Parirenyatwa for the statement. I, however, want him also to take note that because of the bad relationship which has arisen between the doctors and the medical aid societies, the situation has reached a point where the percentage which the medical aid societies are paying to the doctors – I will give an example of PSMAS. They may have received 1% from Government and instead of them paying 1% to the doctors in a balanced and fair manner, they have reached a stage where they just pay their preferred doctors instead of ensuring that each and every doctor gets the same amount. Currently, what is happening is that if there are two doctors at a certain place, one doctor is paid by the same service provider while the other one is not paid. This has reached a stage where those doctors that are not being paid have to pay like 10% for them to get their own payment. This is the situation as we speak. So, I think it really needs your urgent intervention. I just wanted him to take note of that Mr.
Speaker Sir.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I would also like to thank the Hon.
Minister for the timeous statement that he has given to this House. However, talking to some of these doctors, you get worried. I would want the Hon. Minister to clarify what remedial action is going to be taken because some of these doctors have had their houses auctioned by ZIMRA. Is there any means of recovering what they have lost due to penalties coming from ZIMRA over issues of unpaid taxes where they have not actually been paid what is due to them?
Secondly, I just want the Hon. Minister to inform the House whether we have recovered anything from Cuthbert Dube and his board, over issues of overpaid allowances because I have not heard that mentioned anywhere. This is where the whole story started and failure to pay the doctors was because the board was actually feeding its pockets and not feeding the service providers.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank all the Hon Members for their very pertinent questions regarding this issue. The first question came from Hon. Sibanda on where we were when this crisis was brewing? I think the simple answer is that medical aid societies and the doctors have been talking since
- I remember when I was a practicing doctor myself, there was the National Tariffs and Liaison Committee which really addressed the issues between doctors and medical aid societies. So, this is not a new issue. It has always been a brewing issue. It needs appropriate legislation. What is happening here is that, in the Ministry of Health and Child Care, it is very difficult to apportion certain people to just look at medical aid societies. What we need is an Authority that oversees, regulates and has a full time job to look at medical aid societies vis-à-vis doctors and other providers. So, this is a brewing problem which has been on and off. We have been negotiating and last year we put a gazetted price. The doctors wanted to be paid $60 while the insurers wanted to pay $21. In the end we gazetted $35 and this is the amount that is still there now. So, it is not that we have been away but we have been negotiating. Unfortunately, once the two parties do not agree, they do not agree and that compels us to come up with a rate that we then gazette, which we have done but still is causing its own problems.
The other issue that was asked was on the Government’s obligation to pay certain medical aid insurance their quantum. Government is supposed to pay to medical aid societies, particularly to Premier Service Medical Aid Society (PSMAS), which in turn pays the providers. This has not been easily forthcoming, it has been problematic but continued negotiations between PSMAS and the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development are ongoing, considering the economic crisis that is there now.
Hon. Chinotimba wanted to know how long it will take to craft this Bill and make it into law. Let me say that, five weeks ago, the principles of the Bill were accepted and passed in Cabinet. We now have got a draft in place that will be circulated to all stakeholders, including yourselves Hon. Members, to give input and it will then depend on that process. Once that process is done and we want it done quickly. I will try to find out from you, Hon. Members how we can expedite the Bill to become an Act so that it is effected in good time. In the meantime and this has been asked again that in the meantime what are we doing?
What we are doing is clearly to say if medical insurers and providers can agree on a new tariff that is affordable to the medical aid societies and acceptable to the providers. If you can accept that and make sure that once you accept it you are then able to pay the providers regularly, timeously and you have agreed between the two of you, there is no need for us to Gazette, we will take the new tariff. We are trying therefore, through our negotiations, to make sure that there is some agreement, some rapprochement where the two can agree and come up with a reasonable tariff so that the patient does not have to suffer a copayment. As it is now, when we say $35.00 the insurers are saying we will only give you $20.00 so the patient must pay $15.00 up front and those co-payments are unfair to the patient and this is what we are trying to sort out.
Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi talked about ZIMRA. Yes, it is true, it has really compromised a lot doctors and I think it touches on what you said Hon. Chimanikire. What has happened is when a doctor sees a patient and fills-in the medical aid form, that form goes to the medical insurance. It is a claim that the doctor has made but he has not yet received payment and ZIMRA was garnishing the money at that point. They were now saying no, no, no because you made this claim, we are going to take tax from that.
On Monday, when we sat with Hon. Chinamasa, he clarified that it is supposed to be done annually and not per every claim. Then the doctor should be able to say what were their losses are, which claims were paid and which were not paid then you have a realistic sum which is then taxed there from. During the meeting Hon. Chinamasa actually allocated an officer to work with the doctors, so there is now already a liaison between the doctors and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. I think that the issue of ZIMRA, for that purpose, will be sorted out. I am not sure how the issue that you mentioned about the garnishing and selling of houses can be sorted out. Perhaps there are other people who are more qualified to define how that can be sorted out.
Hon. Sibanda you asked about the allocation of money to the Ministry of Health and Child Care. I must emphasize again that we are getting from the GDP, an average of 7.5%. The stipulation the world over and what was agreed by Africa at the African Union was that 15% of GDP should go to the health delivery system, then we prioritise. Our priority has always been prevention, prevention and prevention in all its forms and of course to look at the human resources for health, drugs and medicines, communication - including transport and ambulances, disease burden including HIV, Malaria, Tuberculosis (TB) and of course to look at the non-communicable diseases - those are our priorities and that is how our allocation should be.
We are saying to ourselves, this issue has been touched upon about how are you going to alleviate the congestion? Maybe I will come to that one later on.
Hon. Mashakada you talked about the issue of co-payments, that if
Zimbabwe Medical Association (ZiMA) and Association of Healthcare Funders of Zimbabwe (AHFoZ) do not agree then there will be copayments. This is what is happening now and we do not like copayments at all, because they make the patients suffer. The patient has already paid their insurance, now they go to the doctor and they are asked for more money. We think it is unfair to the patient. So as far as we are concerned, we were forced because they did not agree, we were forced to put up a tariff as a Ministry and regulator, but again it is giving its own problems. Again we hope that they will break that impasse by some agreement and I hope that when they come on Monday, because when we parted on Monday the doctors and medical insurances were going to meet under the National Tariffs and Liaison Committee and I hope that on Monday we will have good news that they will have agreed on some way of breaking this impasse.
Hon. Mashakada you also say what is wrong in the medical aid or medical insurance investing into businesses like hospitals, clinics, pharmacies, laboratories and others? This is a very contentious issue among healthcare providers themselves. The healthcare providers are saying if you take a specialist Urologist, for example he is saying look, I have trained for this, that is my core business and I do it with the passion that I have. Now the medical aid comes in, they do not actually have money invested elsewhere, they take money from the clients and that is the packet they make.
After that now, when people are paying their money, instead of that money being benefited into the medical industry, what they are doing now is to say right, as a medical insurance we are now going to put up a pharmacy, so we prefer our clients to go to that pharmacy. Those pharmacies that are not under that are then compromised because even payment will be preferred to those pharmacies. So there is thorough conflict of interest that you are an insurance that is giving money to a provider and yourself as a provider – there is that conflict. The Bill that we are crafting seeks to address that issue of conflict and I am certain that the issue that you are saying is an investment is well accepted but how can the medical industry benefit from that investment without bringing in conflict, so that is where I think we are.
The issue of over-servicing of clients, yes, it is a thing that I think we have said there should be an appropriate audit. It is true a lot of medical aid societies have put up what they call, managed healthcare. They actually have their own doctor who then monitors what other doctors are saying or doing, then they say you are over-servicing here. This person came with a cough and you instructed them to return in three days with the same condition. Why did you not refer or do something else? So I think it is a fair issue but I think it is being addressed by the insurers and doctors themselves as part of ethics.
Hon. Mlilo, what is the interim measure? I think I have already touched on the doctors and medical insurers. Then you say how are you decongesting hospitals? What is the Ministry doing? What we are doing, and I have said this before - that if you look at Harare, Bulawayo, Gweru, Mutare and all the provincial hospitals are congested. A lot of them do not have district hospitals like Parirenyatwa and Harare Central hospitals. So a patient is seen at Budiriro Clinic and if it is a challenge they are immediately referred to Harare Central hospital because there is no interim or middle hospital where they can be treated.
So what we have done is, and we have already started in Mabvuku
Polyclinic, to say look at all our Polyclinics in the country, whether it is
Ascot in Midlands or Pelandaba in Bulawayo all those Polyclinics or Kuwadzana Clinic. When you go to that clinic now as I speak, if you walk into that clinic, you will find that the services that they are providing are very and I am saying this word with a lot of respect, are very basic, I will say basic because they could do a lot more. Those Polyclinics could do a lot more. Instead of mwana anenge awonekwa paHighfield Clinic akaminyuka ruwoko pane kuti mumutumire kuHarare hospital for an X-ray, because that is the only other place where they can go. Ondosvikoita queue up for just a fracture, “onoita queue up kuti aitwe x-ray paHarare Central Hospital.” We are saying no, no, no, Budiriro Clinic should have X-ray machines, laboratory and a Doctor who stays there full time. That is how we are de-congesting and trying to assist. This we will do in the rural areas as well so that we are able then to say we have built up capacity. We cannot just say we cannot do it because there is no capacity.
In the rural areas, the same thing should happen. We have got district hospitals that are surrounded by clinics or health centres. We are now saying from the health centre, we must go to the villages and build up village health posts.
Hon. Chidhakwa I must apologise, I did not quite catch your question. You said something about disregarding of tariffs.
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: You talked about some doctors
disregarding the set out tariffs. My question is, is that not a criminal offence? Why are those people not being arrested?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: If you ignore what we gazette, for example if what we gazetted was $35, and is not being honoured, that is a problem that should be addressed. Yes, it is a big challenge. Hon. Maridadi, you talked about the cost structure in the country. It is true that our health services in the private sector are extremely high, even the drugs here are much more expensive than in other countries and this is reflective of our whole economy. So I think you are right. It is very painful for us and particularly for some of us in the Ministry to send a patient to India to get a prostatectomy done when it can be done here. We can remove a prostate here but we are sending people to have a prostate removed in India, which is much more expensive.
Therefore we are saying to ourselves let us just resource our health services a bit more, get personnel who can work in those institutions and are adequately remunerated. We can then be able to say to ourselves we can do more services to our people. You are right, the cost structure in the country is very high. The anti-trust laws and the Competition Commission – this is all being looked at. I think you are right about actuarial assessment of tariffs. This is what we have agreed on with doctors and the service providers that we cannot come up with a tariff from nowhere. We have agreed that there should be an actuarial determination of tariffs. However, that is long term, we wanted an immediate solution and the actuarial assessment of tariffs is coming in.
Hon. Munengami talked about the relationship between doctors and medical aid societies. We have said it is not right for medical aid societies to channel payments to preferred doctors. That is one of the things that the doctors mentioned.
Hon. Chimanikire, I have already said I am not sure how to manage the issue of remedying the issue of auctioned houses. You finally asked about the issue of Cuthbert Dube. This is part of the audit report that has come up and I think it would be a follow-up from the audit report. Thank you.
*HON. MUZONDIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Minister, I heard you talking about Cuthbert Dube. There are rumours that you were also given money by PSMAS. Is it not the reason why PSMAS
ended up experiencing financial challenges? Thank you.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member, do you think that is a clarification that you would want from the Minister – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I think my first question was not satisfactorily answered by the Hon. Minister. My question is, where was the Minister until the situation deteriorated to the level where it is now – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - The Hon. Minister answered only on the part of the disagreement between the medical service providers and the insurers, which he said started in 1992. I am sure the coming in of ZIMRA and the garnishing of accounts of medical practitioners did not start in 1992; it started two or three years ago. I am basically saying, why did the Minister have to wait until ultimatums were given by medical service providers? Where was he?
My second question is on the issue of medical insurers investing in medical facilities. Is that not caused by the fact that medical service providers are charging exorbitant fees? Therefore, medical insurers in order to reign in the costs, have decided to invest in their own medical facilities. Finally, maybe I need to be educated. What are the advantages of price fixing in the medical field? Why do you not allow free competition so that medical practitioners can charge whatever they think is good for their business instead of fixing prices? Thank you.
HON. B. TSHUMA: I followed the Minister very well on the regulatory gap involved in this matter. There has been a particular incident where employers - and Government has been unexamplary in this matter, where employers collect remittances from employees and they do not remit to the insurance companies. I want to know from the
Minister what was there in his offer in terms of providing for that gap?
Thank you.
+HON. D.M NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister. I wanted to know whether he knows that most of the doctors are not accepting medical aid cards, they want cash up front. After that, you will be directed to go and buy medication using cash as well. If you get the medication, you have to take the receipt to the medical aid society on your own and we never received a refund. The second question second is, in the medical field we have a proverb which says prevention is better than cure. If the Minister has to wait for the damage before taking any precaution with the signs that were there, indicating that there was a problem with the doctors not accepting the medical aids. For example, using the proverb that I gave, why did they not try to take precautions measures before having such damage? What is it that is being done on such issues Minister?
HON. HOLDER: I did not hear the Minister respond to my questions. First of all, my question was is it true that people with PSMAS were not being accepted at Parirenyatwa Hospital? The second one was on whether our remunerations were being paid to the relevant medical societies. Were they getting the money from where we get it from?
- PARIRENYATWA: Hon. Holder, it is true that at one stage Parirenyatwa was owed over a million dollars by PSMAS and was not in a position to take some. We are now saying to Parirenyatwa, all cards for medical aid for our patients should be accepted and then other means of getting that money back should be found.
*Hon. Muzondiwa, you talked about the issue of Cuthbert Dube and that I also received some money from him as well. It is an important matter to me and it actually hurt me quite a lot and for a time,
I actually withdrew into myself because it is not true that I did that – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.] – Aah, mira ka ndikutaurire. The truth of the matter is that PSMAS has been having relationships with doctors for a long time and with me for a very long time. I have been in practice since 1984, working with medical aid societies. We have developed a very good relationship with some of them. One of the things that have happened is that when you are working with medical aid societies and they do not pay you for five months, you get quite a lot of problems and this is what happened.
My surgery went and said can we have this payment done. The medical aid service said yes, we will pay. They did not pay and as you do that you are accumulating your own debts. We then pleaded with them to pay. When they paid, we then said, it is like they have been having your money for so long and then we said is it allowed also to have an advance payment – [HON.D. SIBANDA: Vamwe vasiri kuwana, as the Minister responsible?] – So, what then happened and it is very professional routine practice – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, I think it is good that we discussed but everything was done professionally with appropriate code of ethics. There was nothing out of form and it was all reconciled properly.
What I find Mr. Speaker Sir is that sometimes there is no understanding of the workings between doctors and insurance companies – [HON. D. SIBANDA: Between the Minister and insurance companies.] – So, in short everything was done very professionally and I can assure you that everything was signed up. There was no – and everything was paid as scheduled. In fact, I do not think I need to explain any further. Everything was done and you can ask the medical society itself. Everything was done accordingly.
HON. CROSS: This matter will be the subject of a Public Hearing next week between the Committees of Public Accounts and Health and the Minister will be summoned to those Committees to explain his position. I think today is not a suitable subject for this platform.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO): I
thought as much that this is not the platform for that question.
- PARIRENYATWA: The other question that has been asked
is on the issue of price fixing, providers and insurances to investigate. This issue will be addressed in our Bill. We will be addressing the issue of conflict of interest, price fixing and auditing. This will be part of the issues that will be discussed.
HON. B. TSHUMA: Mr. Speaker, my question was not responded
to.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Is it not the one that has just been responded to?
HON. B. TSHUMA: No.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Because you were talking.
What was your question?
HON. B. TSHUMA: Minister, I enquired what was the offering in his provisions here in terms of remedying a situation where employers were collecting money from clients and not remitting to medical aid societies and as a result, they were not able to pay the service providers.
He did not respond to that.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Minister has responded
and he explained all that.
HON. B. TSHUMA: Excuse me, I am not exactly drunk. I have been following the proceedings closely and the Minister did not respond. Please.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, did you not
respond to that, I thought you did?
- PARIRENYATWA: I responded, but this is an issue that will be taken up as well through our Bill and seal all these conflicts.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that
I have received from the Parliamentary Legal Committee Non-Adverse Reports on the following Bills; Local Government Amendment Bill and the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and Technology.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order. My point of order is
that, if I remember very well, this issue on the Non-Adverse Report of the Local Government Amendment Bill was raised by Hon. Gonese yesterday as a point of order. The presiding officers, especially Hon.
Deputy Speaker Chinomona who was there, said they were going to take up this matter and discuss it. The meeting which actually came up with the Non-Adverse Report was not properly constituted in terms of the Standing Orders and Rules and even Hon. Gonese specifically stated that. The Hon. Speaker accepted that. So, I am surprised that the very same issue which was discussed and agreed is now brought in Parliament through unscrupulous means. Can we have clarification on that Hon. Speaker, thank you?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member, before
you rise up with such information, you should do your research first, the Committee set this morning and they have agreed. So, there is no reason why you should stand up and say what you are saying.
HON. MUNENGAMI: The reason why I raised this issue is because of what happened yesterday. After Hon. Gonese had spoken about this issue, he even told the Speaker that Hon. Majome and himself were not going to be available and they agreed that they were going to meet on Monday, 27th June, 2016 with regard to this Bill – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – it is upon that understanding that I have raised this issue. It is there in the Hansard. It is upon that understanding that I am rising to raise this point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, let me explain
that instead of Monday, they have met this morning – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
Hon. Munengami having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What else do you want? Can
you take your seat please, they have met this morning and came up with
this.
HON. MUNENGAMI: No, no, we have to do things according to what has been agreed….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members,
the Committee met this morning and they formed a quorum – [AN HON. MEMBER: Vachiita meet vamwe vasipo.] – and then brought up this. So there is no ways one would want to rise up and say – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Maridadi having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Do you sit in that Committee?
HON. MARIDADI: No, no Mr. Speaker, yesterday when –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – this issue was raised, it was raised quite elaborately by Hon. Gonese and he said he was not available today – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – when this matter was raised yesterday as a point of order, it was agreed. Hon. Gonese then left for Mutare immediately after raising this point of order and Hon. Majome, another member of PLC was out on Parliament business and she only came back this afternoon. The reason why PLC’s report was contested in this House was because two critical members of that Committee were not available – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – what has changed. It was agreed that the Speaker was going to give a ruling. The ruling has not been given and then that report is smuggled through unscrupulous means. Mr. Speaker, this is unacceptable.
Mr. Speaker, allow the Chairperson of the PLC to come here and give us an understanding. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, it is over, let us
get serious. The Clerk will read the Second Order of the day.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: On the same issue?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Yes Hon. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have made a ruling, it is over
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Sibanda.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: May I be heard Hon. Speaker. I think what has been clear about this Bill from the beginning as we were following the public hearings that the Committee was carrying out – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It has come out very clear that this is a highly contentious Bill and in my view, in the face of the point of order that was raised yesterday by Hon. Gonese and for the integrity of the institution of Parliament, it is my very honest and humble view Hon. Speaker that the objection that is coming from this side of the House should be seriously taken into consideration. The point of order that was raised yesterday by Hon. Gonese has not been dealt with, the status remains the same. Therefore Hon. Speaker for you now to say that the House should accept the PLC Non-Adverse report, it is as good as ZANU PF smuggling its own Bill into Parliament – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Therefore, Hon. Speaker, it is my view that ….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order – [HON. P. D SIBANDA: I have not finished, but Mr. Speaker why, I have not finished my point of order] – just take a seat. Hon. Sibanda, I am giving order to the House. Order, order, none of you is a Member of the PLC
Committee – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker, my point of order is – [HON.
CHIMANIKIRE: We do not know whether that Chairperson is ZANU
PF or not.] - The point of order is that there is no ruling as yet. The Speaker who was sitting there yesterday assured the House that the ruling will be there on Monday when all the members are involved. We are all Members of Parliament and it is upon our privilege of Parliament even if we are not part and parcel of the Committee, but that does not stop us from deciding on what we represent people for Mr. Speaker. Therefore, we are not going to accept that, that Bill is going to be passed in... –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order Hon. Members. Let us hear what she is saying.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Therefore, we are not going to accept that, that Bill is going to be passed in Parliament or whatever you are reading, we will not accept.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members. We will
ask you to go out very soon.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Order Hon. Holder.
*HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want
to say to my fellow Hon. Members who are not members of the Committee – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- to conscientise them on the Committee itself. What the Standing Orders say is that three members of the Committee should be lawyers. So, Hon.
Speaker, three lawyers met this morning according to the Standing Orders, therefore there is no other ruling.
*HON. MAJAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Speaker said he
would give a ruling on this Bill. So it was important that we first hear the ruling that will be given, then we will take it up from there. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: Mr. Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 2, 3 ...-[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Maridadi.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Point of order, garai henyu pasi. Mr.
Speaker, with all due respect, I am not a member of the PLC, but I am a member of this House. As a member of this House, I am objecting to the production of that report.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Order please! Resume
your seat.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Handisati ndapedzaka point of order yangu. I am not done with my point of order. –[HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Order Hon. Sibanda.
Hon. Members, Standing Order Number 40 requires that a notice be sent to all members a day before the meeting, which was done yesterday– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Wait, Order please! Let me finish. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order! Order Hon. Members! Order! – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Garai pasi.]- Order!
This issue was raised yesterday and the Chairperson said he was going to make a ruling – [HON. MEMBERS: Yes.]- And the ruling is exactly what I have said here that the Committee - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - Order! Order please! I have not finished. Wait until I finish… Order at the back! Order please. I have said in terms of Standing Order No. 40, it requires that a notice be sent to all Members a day before the meeting which was done yesterday. This morning the Committee met with a full quorum and came to a decision.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. That is
not the ruling, oh sorry.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We thank
you for your ruling but we are saying, the ruling you have made, there is no evidence that the message got to the Members that there will be a meeting today. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker Sir, the member was absent on leave and those who were in the Committee could not be in two places at the same time in order to attend the meeting.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members there
please! Hon. Member who spoke last, all the Members of the Committee were given the notice.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Chimanikire, can you
just take a seat.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am aware …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I will recognise you later, just resume your seat I will give you a chance. – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Zvanzi order, gara pasi.]- Order please! Order Hon. Members! At the back there, order please. Hon. Members, please be advised that this Bill is not going to be debated today, it is not coming in today. So, I have made a ruling and it stands. – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Your ruling - iyo ndiyo isinga shande.]-
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day,
Numbers 2, 3 and 4 be stood over …
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am not taking any point of
order. Resume your seat.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker, I am allowed and I have got
a point of order.
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 2, 3 and 4 be stood over until all the other Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I object. I have objected and we cannot continue, you did it yesterday, remember, Hon. Mukwangwariwa, nhasi zvavakwamuri zvakurwadza but yesterday it was accepted here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Member,
may you resume your seat. You have objected to the proposal, so we go back to Order of the Day, Number 2 on today’s Order Paper.
SECOND READING
MINERALS EXPLORATION AND MARKETING
CORPORATION BILL [H.B. 11, 2015]
Second Order read: Second Reading: Minerals exploration and
Marketing Corporation Bill [H.B. 11, 2015]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): I move that the Order be stood over until Tuesday. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MARIDADI: Objection, because I want to debate. I want to debate that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order!
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of our rules, the Leader of the House may interrupt debate in order that a Ministerial Statement can be made. With the leave of the House, I move that the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development, be allowed to make a statement –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
MEASURES TO ADDRESS CASH CHALLENGES
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, this
august House asked me to do a Ministerial Statement on the cash challenges that the country has been facing over the past few weeks. I am obliging that request, I had expected that I can only do it in the first week of July but I felt that, given the importance of this matter, I should issue this statement today.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministerial Statement will cover four important areas regarding the cash challenges that the country is experiencing and has experienced in the past few weeks, and these are:
- I will give a background to the adoption of the multicurrency system;
- Background to the cash challenges;
- Outline measures that have announced to address these challenges; and
- An update on the implementation of the measure.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with respect to the background to the introduction of the multicurrency system, the House will be aware that we adopted a multicurrency system in 2009 in order to address the hyperinflationary challenges that the country was grappling with. The system entailed the use of a basket of trading partners’ currencies that included and include the US Dollar, British Pound, the Euro, the South African Rand, Pula, the Japanese Yen, Australian Dollar and the Chinese Yuan, among other currencies.
Mr. Speaker Sir, just to remind this august House, that we did not adopt a full dollarisation strategy. This therefore, meant that all the currencies in the basket were and are still acceptable medium of exchange in Zimbabwe. This is an important dimension that we should all appreciate because the US dollar is part and parcel of the multicurrency system and not the sole currency in Zimbabwe.
Further, Mr. Speaker Sir, there have been calls for the adoption of the South African Rand as the transacting currency by many people. The Rand remains part and parcel of the multicurrency system and economic players are free to switch to any currency as a way of managing their operation. We do not intend to adopt a single currency but we will continue to maintain and bolster the strength of the multicurrency system.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me give a background to the cash challenges which I attribute to the following factors:
- The dominance of the US dollar in the multicurrency basket;
- Heavy reliance on cash based transactions. There has been cash hoarding by some people, possibly due to lack of market confidence and also due speculative behavior;
- We also use this very precious foreign currency, reserve currency for financing domestic transactions; and
- Exogenous factors that negatively affected the country’s balance of payment position – specifically the drought which has put pressure on the demand for foreign currency and also the depressed commodity prices leading to low foreign currency earnings.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the basic principle for adopting the multicurrency system was missed along the way as economic agents preferred the US dollar over other currencies in the basket. I will share the data on the utilization of currencies in the multicurrency system since 2009.
2009 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | |
USD | 49% | 50% | 70% | 95% |
Rand | 49% | 50% | 30% | 5% |
Other | 2% | - | - | - |
Total | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |
This is the market deciding, not through any action on our part. Now, these statistics Mr. Speaker Sir, clearly demonstrate that US dollar has remained the widely accepted and traded currency in Zimbabwe. This exposure to the US dollar has been against the spirit of a multicurrency system. The Central bank does not have power to influence the level of the US dollars through seignorage, that is printing of money. The Government can only influence the supply of US dollars in our market through two broad channels:
- Generation of US dollars through exports, inward foreign direct investments, diaspora remittances and international assistance and credit; and
- Effective management of the little foreign exchange that we would have generated.
Sadly, this has been the country’s Achilles heel; and we have had to intervene. Mr. Speaker Sir, our market on the foreign currency area was overly liberalised, anything could come and go out at will in terms of our foreign currency earnings. So the interventions are in part to address that problem. Mr. Speaker Sir, the country’s over-reliance on commodity exports has also been a challenge for us, given depressed international commodity prices. Our top 20 exporters were largely drawn from the mining and agricultural sectors, mainly tobacco sectors, to some extent tea, and this accounted for 41.3% of our total exports as at 27 May, 2016.
My Ministerial Statement attaches a table 2, which sets out our top 20 exporters. I have done so because later on I am going to dwell at some length on why the bond notes were introduced. The reason is to boost exports, increase production and give incentives to those who are exporting. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like ask the indulgence of Hon.
Members to follow this Table 2 of our Top 20 exporters through the
Hansard, it is a long list.
Table 2: Top Exporters
Name of Exporter | Sector | USD Value | % of total Exports | |
1 | FIDELITY PRINTERS AND REFINERS | Mining |
324,759,683 |
14,51% |
2 | ZIMBABWE
PLATINUM MINES |
Mining |
217,161,708 |
9.70% |
3 | MIMOSA | Mining |
85,466,435 |
3.82% |
4 | NORTHERN TOBACCO PRIVATE LIMITED | Tobacco |
65,296,194 |
2.92% |
5 | UNKI MINE | Mining |
42,483,718 |
1.90% |
6 | MARANGE RESOURCES | Mining |
24,201,392 |
1.08% |
7 | ZIMBABWE LEAF TOBACCO | Tobacco |
22,066,038 |
0.99% |
8 | MUROWA DIAMONDS
(PVT) LTD |
Mining |
16,298,380 |
0.73% |
9 | BINDURA NICKEL CORPORATION | Mining |
16,116,069 |
0.72% |
10 | INTERCONTINENTAL LEAF TOBACCO | Tobacco |
15,962,267 |
0.71% |
11 | AFROCHINE SMELTING P/L | Mining |
15,191,774 |
0.68% |
12 | MASHONALAND TOBACCO | Mining |
13,898,251 |
0.62% |
13 | BOOST AFRICA TRADERS P/L | Tobacco |
12,545,346 |
0.56% |
14 | ANJIN INVESTMENTS (PVT) LTD | Mining |
10,687,719 |
0.48% |
15 | BORDER TIMBERS LIMITED | Agriculture/Forestry |
7,989,793 |
0.36% |
16 | JIN AN CORPORATION | Mining |
6,975,096 |
0.31% |
17 | TANGANDA TEA COMPANY LTD | Agriculture |
6,902,815 |
0.31% |
18 | JINAN MINING (PVT) LTD | Mining |
6,890,191 |
0.31% |
19 | TSL CLASSIC LEAF (PVT) LTD | Tobacco |
6,625,944 |
0.30% |
20 | PADENGA HOLDINGS | Agriculture | 0.28% | |
LIMITED | 6,327,988 | |||
SUB-TOTAL |
923,846,801 |
41.27% | ||
Other Exporters |
1,314,553,199 |
58.73% | ||
TOTAL EXPORTS |
2,238,400,000 |
100% |
Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe has largely remained a cash economy. Every transaction has to be supported by the physical money (notes and coins). This practice clearly puts pressure on the financial system, making both banks and the Nostro accounts wash accounts, meaning that they only receive in order to pay out, which basically is what is happening in our financial system, especially salaries. They receive from the Salary Service Bureau (SSB) and the next day they pay out.
People need to move away, we need to move away from this practice.
The appreciation of the US dollar also encouraged hoarding and exportation of cash since it is a safe haven currency or asset. The US dollar had become more of an asset or commodity than a medium of exchange. The US dollar in our economy has been imported for circulation purposes. When it ceases to circulate, it is no longer serving the purpose for which we intend it to be. That is where our challenge has been.
Mr. Speaker Sir, drought induced import requirements have also increase the demand for foreign currency. Around US$80 million has so far been used to import grain. The Increase in these imports is at a time when the international commodity prices of gold, platinum and diamonds are depressed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, with respect to measures that have been announced to address these cash challenges; as Hon. Members may realise from the discussion on some of the factors that contributed to the cash challenges, there are many interventions that can be adopted. There is also need for Hon. Members to realise that measures can be shortterm, medium-term and long-term.
For example, supply side measures that involve stimulating domestic production are in the main, medium to long-term measures that have largely been the focus of our national budget and monetary policy pronouncements since 2013. We are beginning to realise some benefits in a number of sectors – gold mining, manufacturing and agriculture. We still need to do more in order to diversify our foreign exchange earnings, promote food security and reduce imports on products that can be produced locally. This is an issue that we were debating during Question Time yesterday.
There are also some immediate measures that Government had to implement in order to sustain the current situation, otherwise there would not be any future to talk about when nothing had been done in the shortest possible time.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will highlight the following measures that we have had to take:
- Use of electronic payment system (plastic money);
- We have had to persuade commercial banks to reduce reducing charges and fees on the use of Point Of Sale (POS) machines,
RTGS and mobile banking platforms;
- We have had to put cash withdrawal limits;
- We have introduced, as I have pointed out, an Export Bonus Scheme in order to incentivise exporters to produce more and export more;
- We have enhanced interbank market foreign exchange management;
- We have also promoted the use of banks; and
- We are intensifying our domestic resource mobilisation and a Cabinet Committee to that effect is chaired by the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa.
These measures are aimed at addressing ‘specific ills’ noted in my outline of the contributory factors to the cash challenges.
Mr. Speaker Sir, again with the indulgence of the House, I have attached a table; Table 3, which sets out in a tabular form the rationale for putting in the measures that we have introduced.
Table 3: Relevance of Policy measures
Measure | Rationale | |
1 | Use of electronic payment systems (plastic money) | Addressing heavy reliance on cashbased transactions. |
2 | Reducing charges and fees on the use of POS machines, RTGS and mobile banking platforms | Reducing costs that militated against the use of electronic payment platforms |
3 | Cash withdrawal limits | Discouraging hoarding and externalization of cash. |
4 | Export Bonus Scheme | Addressing balance of payments pressures by promoting exports, while at the same time protecting the US$200 million Afreximbank facility from externalization. |
5 | Enhanced interbank market foreign exchange management | We had an over-liberalised foreign exchange management system that has been fraught with inefficiencies and misallocation of the scarce foreign currency. |
6 | Promoting use of banks to facilitate payments | Banks are an important part of the country’s financial system – there is therefore, need to promote effective financial intermediation which is key to sustainable socio-economic development. |
7 | Domestic resource mobilisation | To enhance the revenue generation capacity and administration of the country’s |
tax system.
Promoting financial inclusion in order to expand the country’s savings base. |
For instance, we have promoted the use of electronic payment systems and the rationale is basically to address heavy reliance on cashbased transactions. We are reducing charges and fees on use of POS machines, RTGS and mobile banking. This is to reduce costs that militate against the use of electronic payment platforms. We have placed cash withdrawal limits to discourage hoarding and externalisation of cash. In fact, when determining the withdrawal limits, we found that our limits, even the revised ones are still higher than withdrawal limits in the United States which actually print the US$. So, that comparison is very important. In the United States, the limit is US$500 and now we have revised it to US$1000. So, we are still generous, notwithstanding the fact that we do not print the US$.
We have introduced the Export Bonus Scheme in order to address balance of payment pressures by promoting exports while at the same time protecting the US$200 million Afrexim Bank facility from externalisation. We cannot get the US$200million facility, put it in our economy, which is just a sieve and then the next day, the money is gone.
Generally, as we explain, people do understand.
We are also promoting inter-bank market foreign exchange management. Mr. Speaker Sir, the problem we have had is an overliberalised foreign exchange market and what a lot of people have missed in the measures that we are adopting is that; we are now moving away, step by step from an over-liberalised foreign-exchange market to a managed one. We want to use our hard-earned foreign exchange only for uses which are beneficial to the economy, and not to buy trinkets and other very useless product. Kutenga mazhanje, ipwa, magaka. Makambozviona kupi izvozvo. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Matanga kuzviona nhasi?] – makambozviona kupi nyika inoshandisa foreign currency kutenga mbeva. We are not saying if someone is a genius ku exporta mbeva dzanyatsogadzirwa mushe. We encourage that, but that the source of this foreign currency is from gold exports and you cannot use gold exports to finance kutenga ipwa.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we are also promoting the use of banks to facilitate payments. Banks are an important part of the country’s financial system. There is therefore, need to promote effective financial intermediation which is key to sustainable social economic development. As I have also pointed out on domestic resource mobilisation, this is to enhance the revenue generation capacity and administration of the country’s tax system and we also are promoting financial inclusion in order to expand the country’s savings base, in fact, also to promote savings in our economy.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me now turn to the update on the implementation of these measures.
Update on the implementation of the measures
Use of electronic payment systems (plastic money).
The RBZ has since expanded the currencies on the Real Time Gross Settlement System (RTGS) payment platform. We now have the United States dollar, the Rand and the Euro on this platform.
Treasury has already instructed Ministries, Government departments, local authorities and parastatals to introduce point of sale machines by 30th June this year and to accept all currencies in the multicurrency basket as part and in payment of the services or goods that they sell. These are basically as part of Government’s efforts to reduce pressure on the demand for the United States dollar.
Cumulatively, Mr. Speaker, we now have 17 447 point of sale machines which are now operational.
A number of economic players including the SMEs, local authorities, parastatals have embraced the use of plastic money.
The low utilisation of electronic payment platforms in the past has been largely attributable to high charges and a culture where everyone wanted to move around with cash.
Reducing charges on electronic payment platforms
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ), the Banker’s Association of Zimbabwe, the Payment Systems Providers have since reduced charges on electronic transactions as follows:
Table 4: New charges for electronic transactions
Services | New Charges inclusive of US$0.05 | |
1 | ZETSS (RTGS) | Maximum of US$5 |
ZIPIT (Electronic Funds Transfer) | US$0.33 to a maximum of US$2.10 | |
POS transactions up to US$10 | US$0.10 | |
POS transactions above US$10 | US$0.45 | |
POS own bank customer | Maximum of US$0.20 | |
POS issuer charges | Removed | |
ATM withdrawal | Maximum of US$2.50 | |
Merchant Service Commission | O to a maximum of 1% for local transactions | |
Monthly administration or service fee | 0 to a maximum of US$5 for individuals |
Mr. Speaker Sir, the reduction in transaction fees is expected to go a long way in promoting the use of plastic money which is key to addressing cash challenges and promoting financial inclusion.
Cash withdrawal limits.
Mr. Speaker Sir, RBZ daily upper has been set at US$1000. However, banks have been working within the limit depending on their level of liquidity. We have seen withdrawal limits ranging between US$100 to US$500.
Export Bonus Scheme.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the sustainability of the multicurrency system in
Zimbabwe is dependent on the country’s capacity and ability to generate foreign exchange to meet its domestic and foreign requirements. Development and promotion of foreign exchange revenue streams such as exports of goods and services and diaspora remittances is therefore, critical to enhance foreign exchange reserves of the country.
The above reality which I have just outlined together with the country’s trade deficit of around US$2.5 billion per annum requires a substantial policy shift to promote exports in view of lack of competitiveness of Zimbabwean exports due to global shocks and that include the strong United States dollar, the sharp decline in commodity prices and tighter global financial conditions as well as the precipitous fall of the South African Rand.
It is against this background that Government, through the RBZ, has introduced the performance related export bonus scheme of up to 5%, in some instances 2.5%, to be awarded to exporters of goods and services, to address the challenges of low productivity and promote exports with the overall aim of liquefying the multi currency system.
The export bonus scheme would be paid in bond notes in order to preserve the off shore US$200 million counter-cyclical facility that has been arranged to back the export bonus scheme from externalisation and or capital flight which has continued to negatively affect the economy since dollarisation in 2009.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issuance of bond notes has a self control mechanism in that where there no exports, there are no bond notes. In other words, the bond notes are issued relative to the volume of exports. The bond notes, Mr. Speaker, would be gradually released into the economy in sympathy with export receipts through normal banking channels up to a maximum ceiling of the facility of US$200 million. The ceiling will be attained when total exports are around 6 billion. At the figure of US$200 million, the exports should move to US$6 billion and currently our exports are around US$3 billion. Something that of cause I worry about because when we compare our exports with other countries in the region, we are very low.
Kenya exports US$20 billion and it has no minerals or metals except agriculture and tourism. Mozambique is now around US$11 billion exports and so is Zambia and we are at US$3 billion. So, we have a lot of work to do in order to increase the volume of our exports.
At the rate at which the country is exporting, we anticipate that bond notes equivalent to around US$50 million will be in the market by the end of December 2016.
The course of the facility, which is around 5% per annum on drawn down amounts, will be borne by Government. The capital of the facility would be preserved from the proportion of the exports supported by the facility.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the bond notes which would start to circulate beginning October, 2016 will be at par with the United States dollar, meaning 1:1 with the United States dollar on the same basis as the bond coins and will be used and treated in the same manner as bond coins.
They will be deposited into one’s United States dollar account where one can transact through RTGS, make foreign payments for imports of goods and services and transact freely within the multicurrency system. It is also important Mr. Speaker Sir, to note that bond notes will not be forced on people who do not like them, especially when you are not an exporter.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is critical to emphasise that the introduction of bond notes does not mark the return of the Zimbabwe dollar. The microeconomic fundamentals or conditions for the return of the local currency are not yet right to do so.
Key fundamentals or conditions of the return of the local currency, let me just outline them.
- We need to build foreign currency reserves to one year of import cover.
- We need to balance our Government budget.
- We need to have sustainable interest rates not like what we are going through where we have interests rates as high as 15% /16%. They need to be lower and if lower, sustainable. There must be high consumer and business confidence.
- We must have sustainable level of inflation which at the current moment is not a problem. What we have a problem with is basically the opposite of inflation, deflation.
- We need a healthy job market.
Enhanced Interbank Market Foreign Exchange Management.
- A foreign exchange priority list is now in place following work by the Reserve Bank and the Business Council as represented by the Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries (CZI), Zimbabwe National
Chamber of Commerce (ZNCC), and the Bankers Association of Zimbabwe (BAZ).
Table 1 Priority List for Foreign Payments.
Priority Level | Foreign Currency Payment Category |
Priority One (HIGH) | i. Net Exporters who import raw-materials or machinery to aide them to produce and generate more exports;
ii. Non-exporting importers of raw materials and machinery for local production (value addition) that directly substitute import of essential finished goods; iii. Imports of critical and strategic goods such as basic food stuffs and fuel, health and agro-chemicals granted these goods are not available locally; iv. Repayments of offshore lines of credit procured to fund productive activities,; v. Payments for services not available in Zimbabwe; vi. Foreign investments (capital disinvestments, profits and dividends). |
Priority Two
(MEDIUM) |
i. Bank borrowing clients in the productive sector who engage in critical and strategic imports |
Priority
Three (LOW) |
i. University and college fees.
ii. Cash depositing clients in the retail and wholesale service industry. The customers generate cash which can be recycled for local use or repatriated to replenish Nostro accounts iii. Other borrowing clients who have engaged in the importation of non- strategic goods. |
NOT
PRIORITY |
i. Capital remittances from disposal of local property ii. Capital remittances from disposal of local property iii. Funding of offshore credit cards
iv. Importation of trinkets, low local content consumer goods and/or foods readily available in Zimbabwe including non-commercial vehicles, maheu, bottled water, tomatoes, vegetables v. Payments for services available in Zimbabwe vi. Donations. |
Promoting the use of banks.
- RBZ has been monitoring cash deposit trends, within the various banks, where it was generally noted that cash deposits had declined by an average of 40% during the month of May 2016.
- There are reports which alleged that some players were selling cash, engaged in illicit deals, and were not depositing cash as required in terms of Section 11 of the Bank Use Promotion Act which states that: “Every trader, and parastatal shall, unless it has good cause for not doing so, deposit in an account with a financial institution, no later than the close of normal business hours on the day following that on which the cash is received or on the next bank day, cash that is surplus to the requirements of the trader”.
This is an Act of Parliament which this august House passed as an Act of Parliament and it is now being implemented. So, whatever we are doing, we are basically invoking the law which is already on our Statute book.
- The RBZ’s Financial Intelligence Unit invoked Section 6 of the Bank Use Promotion Act [Chapter 24:24], and has launched an operation targeted on assessing banking trends by high cash generators that include wholesalers, retailers, mobile phone companies, and fuel dealers. The first phase of this operation started on Friday, 3rd June, 2016.
Now, I want to emphasise that as we target any of these operators, we are doing so to the extent possible initially in a very market friendly way. We have no intention to close any business but we want them to see the light. If they have not been observing the provisions of our law, we will bring that to their attention and ask them nicely to put in place systems that make them to comply. Only after they have not, after we have given them a period of grace, then we may have to decent on them heavily. But for now we do not want any businesses to close.
Domestic Resource Mobilisation Efforts
- Speaker Sir, domestic resources mobilisation entails harnessing financial resources from the local sources through taxes, savings and plugging leakages throughout the economy.
- Government is fully aware of the challenges facing our taxation system that include corruption, inefficiencies, illicit financial flows, declining tax base due to de-industrialisation and growing informal sector activities as well as relatively high effective tax rates.
- Treasury has since given the ZIMRA board a mandate to do
three things.
- Increase the tax base; meaning they must come up with strategies that help them to collect taxes from the informal sector.
- Automate the tax collection system; this means linking ZIMRA to the tax payers, electronically in real time and also they must take measures that is the board to Combat corruption.
- Steady progress is being made in executing the mandate and this is evidenced by the following projects that are currently underway:
- Rollout of the new Tax Management System currently underway is progressing relatively well. VAT refunds have been a major challenge for ZIMRA. The Tax Management System will help reduce human interface and as a result the level of corruption.
- The first phase of the CCTVs project at Beitbridge Border Post has since been completed. This again is to increase and enhance transparency at that Border Post which is always congested.
- A Cargo Tracking System will soon be rolled out in order to address the perennial problem of product dumping in Zimbabwe. It became clear Mr. Speaker Sir, that some trucks would declare at Beitbridge Border Post that they were destined for Zambia, DRC or Malawi but as soon as they cross the border, they would go to Mbare and dump the product there. We had no way to understand what was happening. We are now going to roll out this tracking system in order to track all trucks which say they are destined for destinations outside Zimbabwe.
- A toll-free Hotline has since been launched as a way of exposing corruption.
What is coming out through this hotline is something that is very encouraging. People are phoning and identifying themselves by name and giving blow by blow what they are alleging. The beauty about such development is that at least we can have a witness to any corruption that we think has been committed. In some cases they tell us what is going to happen and sure when we follow up, people then get caught up. So, we believe that this will go quite some way to reduce corruption within the tax collection system.
Conclusion
- Speaker Sir, the policy measures seek to restore the fundamental principles of the multicurrency system in order to ensure that the burden of demand for cash is spread among various currencies in the multicurrency basket.
- These measures are expected to go a long way in addressing liquidity challenges by spreading the demand for cash among a wide range of currencies. We also expect the measures will stimulate local production which is key to sustainable economic recovery. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for your kind attention.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I have no doubt that we have benefited from this very important statement from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. It also contains about four tables of figures and measures that have to be studied. I believe that it is prudent for the House to allow Members to have access and study them so that we debate this issue next week. On the basis of that, I move that the debate be now adjourned.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 28th June, 2016.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, the country is in a deep economic and political crisis – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I personally have at least ten issues which I want to ask the Minister to clarify. I want the assurance of the Leader of the House that the Minister will be available next week to answer questions. - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Members on my
right, please when I say “order”, respect the Chair. Honourable Cross, I think you should understand that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is a straightforward person and he will be here to answer your questions next week.
HON. CROSS: The Minister told us yesterday that he is going to be out of the country next week.
HON. E. MNANGAGWA: It is very important that we debate the
issue on the table. We adjourned debate and that is past. I moved for the adjournment of the House. That is what is at issue.
HON. CROSS: I understood from the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development yesterday that he will not be in the country next week –[HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- and this means we cannot seek from the Minister, clarification on crucial issues.
Motion put and agreed to.
The House adjourned at Eighteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
until Tuesday, 28th June, 2016.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 22nd June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
PARTNERSHIP TO PROVIDE MEDICAL SERVICES
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I would like to inform the House that Dr. Moses Chiwanza MBchB UZ, a medical doctor, would like to partner with Hon. Members to provide medical services to the less privileged in their constituencies, who cannot access medical services on time. If at all – [HON. MEMBERS: Ayehwa, zvakwana, zvakwana takaguta.] – Order. To those who cannot access medical services on time. If at all, due to lack of financial resources or long distances they have to travel particularly, in rural areas. Members are encouraged to meet with Dr. Chiwanza who has set up a desk at the Members’ dining room. He will be here today, Wednesday 22nd and Thursday, 23rd June, 2016 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, Hon. Members, you are not being forced but there might be members who may need to partner with him. Why are you worried? If you want to know where he comes from, go there and talk to him.
HON. GONESE: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege in terms of the provisions of Standing Order Number 68 paragraph (d) as read with the provisions of Standing Order Number 69, 32 and 33....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, would you please approach the Chair – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Mudhara Chokuda, wakuita zvaZvoma zviya, zvatakazoti Zvoma must go.] – [Laughter]
HON. MARIDADI: I rise on a point of order Madam Speaker, as read in conjunction with Section 148, Privileges and Immunities of
Parliament. This arises after the Portfolio Committee on ICT, chaired by
Hon. Chamisa invited the suspended Chief Executive Officer of NetOne,
Reward Kangai to give evidence. He gave evidence to the Portfolio Committee and made some allegations against Minister Supa
Mandiwanzira. In response, Minister Supa Mandiwanzira infers that Parliament is colluding with Mr. Kangai so that they can tarnish the name of the Minister.
Madam Speaker, Section 148 of the Constitution says that,
Standing Orders will define conduct which constitute contempt of Parliament, whether committed by Members of Parliament or other people. Schedule 8 says, “molesting, assaulting or threatening a witness on account of evidence given by him or her before Parliament or a Committee.” Madam Speaker, I think Hon. Mandiwanzira should be found in contempt of Parliament for the statements that he made in the Newspaper. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I hear you Hon. Maridadi.
We will look into the matter but I also advise that before you present, I think as the Chair, I would like to know what you want to present.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. As I was saying earlier on, I rise in terms of the provisions of Standing Order Number 68 paragraph (d) as read with the provisions of Standing Order Number 69, 32, 33 and other Standing Orders which I am going to refer to in the course of my presentation. In terms of the provisions of this Standing Order, it is a matter of privilege and such a matter, in terms of the provisions of Standing Order Number 69, takes precedence over other motions as well as Orders of the Day.
This matter is in terms of Standing Order Number 32, paragraph (4) in regard to the proceedings of the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
Madam Speaker, can I proceed?
Madam Speaker, the issues which I am raising are fundamental for the good order and proceedings of this august House. The issues which I am raising are very fundamental. They are very crucial.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please proceed?
HON. GONESE: Yes, I am proceeding, Madam Speaker. In terms of Standing Order Number 32 and Standing Order Number 33, there are elaborate provisions which are laid out regarding the convening of meetings of the Parliamentary Legal Committee in particular.
Yesterday, Madam Speaker, when I came to the House, I was informed that a purported meeting of the Parliamentary Legal Committee had taken place. When I spoke to the Chairperson, he indicated to me that they had already prepared or agreed on a nonadverse report. That meeting, I was not aware of it. Hon. Majome is currently away participating in the public hearings which are being conducted by the Local Government Portfolio Committee and she was not even given notice of any meeting and there are five members.
The Parliamentary Legal Committee is a very important Committee of this august House. It is the only Committee which is provided for specifically in terms of the Constitution. Section 152 is very clear. It sets out the establishment of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. As I was pointing out, Madam Speaker, we actually had a group discussion on our WhatsApp group which comprises Counsel to Parliament and the Members of the Parliamentary Legal Committee where a suggestion had been made that the Parliamentary Legal
Committee meets at 12:30 p.m. yesterday.
I indicated that this was a very important Bill and I suggested that we could not proceed that way in the absence of one of our members who was away, not on a frolic of her own, but on Parliamentary duties as part of the Parliamentary Legal Committee. Having expressed those sentiments, my assumption was that, like all rational beings and one of our members, whom I will mention, even concurred to the suggestion that we meet on Monday to deal with the issue of the report of the
Parliamentary Legal Committee regarding the Local Government
Amendment Bill.
What I am saying, Madam Speaker, is fundamental because I think we need it for posterity. Thereafter, Madam Speaker, I was informed by the Chairperson that we have already finished. You were not here in
Parliament. Nicodemously and stealthily, I was present. I was here in Harare. I had gone to the bank. I could not access money from the bank. I was told to wait for two hours. I went back after two hours and I was still at the bank up to 2:30 p.m. Then the Chairperson said to me, you were not in the House and this is the way we proceeded.
But the long and short of it, Madam Speaker is that, I want to… -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. CHINOTIMBA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, order -
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members.
HON. GONESE: The provisions of Standing Order 32 are very clear, that the Committee must form its opinion through the collective knowledge and experience of the members. The reason why I am referring to these provisions is because they are very important and critical.
In terms of paragraph 5, the periods within which the Committee must report to the House, the Vice President, Minister or authority referred to in Subsection 4, in the case of a Bill described in terms of Section 152 paragraph 3(a) of the Constitution, the period of 26 business days.
This particular Bill was referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee on 7th June, 2016 and from my calculations, business days exclude Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays and from my calculations, only 11 days have elapsed. In other words, we still have got 13 days within which to examine the Bill. I believe that those days were put in for a reason. To allow us to consult, to seek other advice because as lawyers, it does not mean that we know everything. We are legally qualified, but we also seek the opinions of others.
Furthermore, Madam Speaker, I am not going to read the Standing Orders to save time. They are very clear that all members are entitled to prepare their own reports. If the Chairperson prepares a report and any of the members of the Committee feels differently, that member of the Committee is entitled, in terms of our Standing Orders, to prepare a draft report which is different to the one prepared by the majority of the members and the Committee is obliged and required to go over the two reports paragraph by paragraph.
We were not given that opportunity, myself and Hon. Majome, who have a different opinion to that which has been expressed by some of the other members of the Committee. We must do things properly.
The other reason I am raising this, Madam Speaker, today on the Order Paper, Hon. Kasukuwere has given notice that he intends to move a motion to suspend the provisions of Standing Order No. 32, as well as the provisions of Standing Order No. 139. I am concerned with both Standing Orders. In terms of the provisions of Standing Order No. 32, it refers to the issues which I have already adumbrated. In terms of the provisions of Section 139 that relate to the stages of Bills and here we are, we have got a Committee which is still out covering some areas which had been left out, which is Matabeleland North and Matabeleland South and the Minister wants to come here today to suspend the provisions of those two Standing Orders so that the Bill can be fast tracked.
I am actually proposing that that, motion should be expunged from the Order Paper. It is in bad test, it is undemocratic and we cannot allow it. Having said that Madam Speaker, we need confirmation that the purported meeting, from what the Clerk was now expressing, that the purported meeting which was nicodemously held yesterday is a nullity. We need that pronouncement to be made in this august House and that any further meetings, Madam Speaker, you are aware that from tomorrow we have got a workshop ..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, please!
HON. GONESE: We have got a workshop on Sustainable Goals in Mutare where some members of the Committee including myself and Hon. Majome are going to be in attendance. We can only meet as a Parliamentary Legal Committee next week. We do not want a situation where the Chairperson of the Committee who purports to be an independent Member of Parliament is more ZANU PF than ZANU PF itself, can then just come up with a meeting....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, I think you
have made your point.
HON. GONESE: Yes, if I have made my point, I was going to go
to town but if I had made my point, if it is agreed - yes, I was going to read all the provisions which I am justified and entitled to do so that we really make the point that what was purported to have happened is not in accordance with principles of natural justice, not in accordance with the Constitution and is not in accordance with our Standing Orders. That is my case Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Gonese, we are going to
look into that matter and also get the help of administration, I thank you.
TABLING OF NARRATIVE REPOTS
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam I rise to lay three
narrative reports on
- Appropriation Accounts, Finance Accounts, Revenue Statements and Fund Accounts.
- Narrative Report on State Enterprises and Parastatals and;
- Narrative Report on Local Authorities.
I am laying these reports in terms of Section 12, subsection 1 of the
Audit Office Act Chapter [22:18]. So I do lay the reports on the table.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I think it must have been last week or this week where a motion of public interest and national interest was moved by Hon. Maridadi, which I seconded on medical aid societies and doctors. If it pleases you Madam Speaker, indulge me in asking the Minister of Health and Child Care, seeing he is here, to appraise the House on where we were on that issue, what is obtaining at the moment, nationally and what is going to obtain in the future, pertaining to that issue which was and still is of national importance? I thank you. [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think your motion because
of lack of quorum fell off because of lack of quorum but if the Minister is prepared to answer to whatever was debated on, he might answer you when he is ready.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to
thank Hon. Nduna for that insight into what should be said. I will be giving a full ministerial statement on that issue tomorrow.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. MUKUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
from the children of Highlands Primary School in my constituency and it is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Because of that, I will allow
him to ask.
HON. MUKUPE: Madam Speaker, I ask for your protection from
this hooliganist behaviour.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mukupe, I cannot hear
what you are saying. Can you please come closer?
*HON. MUKUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
originates from the children of Highlands Primary School in my constituency and is directed to the Minister of Transport and
Infrastructural Development. When we were growing up, the Zimbabwe Traffic Council used to visit schools conscientising pupils on traffic rules, regulations and how to cross the roads. Minister, has the policy changed with regard to the mandate of the Zimbabwe Traffic Council in conscientising pupils on how to maneuver their way on the roads?
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GUMBO): I
want to thank the Hon. Member for that question. Government policy has not changed pertaining to the mandate of the Zimbabwe Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe. Currently, the council is going out to various schools conscientising pupils on what he raised as well as distributing literature and enlightening them on the new SADC traffic signs that are now being used in the region. The challenge the council is facing limited traffic manpower. I think the council team had not reached Highlands Primary School at the time of his visit to that school but they are going to all schools to conscientise the children on road traffic signs.
*HON. MUCHENJE: Minister, as you are teaching these pupils, what are you doing to conscientise the general public even those that are licenced?
* HON. DR. GUMBO: Thank you for the question Hon. Muchenje. The position is that your observations are quite correct. There are new signs that those of us who are old licence holdrs will need to revisit and acquaint ourselves with those new signs. Those that mostly drive on the roads have observed the new signs that we have erected are the new standard signs. Most of those signs have not changed. The majority of us will even want to know why the signs are now on wooden poles instead of steel poles, it is because this is in line with the SADC Protocol. I also said that in other areas, people are removing the signs and throw them away because they do not know their meaning. The position is that the Traffic Safety Council will be embarking on public education outreach programme to inform the people of the new signs. Already, we have gone to Rural District Councils to inform those that are in various councils so that they acquaint themselves with these new signs. We are even giving Highway Code books to schools. This is a good suggestion that we should spread to the majority of the people that are already licenced. I thank you.
*HON. MATIENGA: My question is directed to the Minister of Education who is not in the House. May I proceed? Okay, they are all in the House. Minister, may you please clarify if it is Government policy that funds that were being paid towards SDAs are now being deposited into the Government account instead of the SDA account?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry, the Minister is not in. I had seen the Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education.
HON. MUNENGAMI: My point of order Madam Speaker, is that you can see today that what we have always said day in, day out in this august House, that if it were possible, could the Executive give us a person who is capable to answer these questions. If possible we can direct our questions to the Leader of the House. Oh, one other Minister has just walked into the House.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce and in his absence, I am redirecting the question to the Leader of the House, assuming it is the Minister of Finance and Economic Development - since the question has something to do with finance. Madam Speaker, last year during the workshop on the 2016 budget, the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Dr. Mangudya, referred to the new normal. The new normal that he referred
to was ....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: The new normal that he referred to was
the advent into our economy of informal workers that are engaging in trade within the various sectors and trading in various goods. Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016, now bans the importation of the goods that are used by those that are in the formal sector, realising that it includes small items like ...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, where are you
reading from? Would you please ask a straight question?
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: My question is, what is Government
policy as regards the new normal of ensuring that we are providing jobs for those that are in the informal sector who rely on importation of the goods that have been included under Statutory Instrument 64 of 2016, which now prohibits the importation of those goods for trade within the informal sector?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): The Statutory Instrument
referred to by the Hon. Member does not ban importation of commodities. If you read it carefully, it merely removes those items from the open general licence and for you to import those goods, you need to apply for a licence. That is what that instrument is about. Government remains committed to supporting the informal sector, more particularly to help it to access credit, skills development and infrastructure for it to be formal.
Currently, our challenges with revenue collection arise from the fact that the economy is highly informalised and it presents problems in terms of revenue collection. So, our interest as Government is to recognise that there are those SMEs and to help them establish themselves into formal businesses so that we facilitate the collection of revenue. I thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. ZVIDZAI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
with regards to the suspension of licences, or the need for requirements for licences. What licences are being talked about is a hardship on our women. Our women are being abused so that they can be issued with these licences. Why do we require these licences? The country is facing difficulties. Why do we have that and why were the people not consulted?
HON. CHINAMASA: The supplementary question is that the
Hon. Member does not understand the need to address the Import Bill. Part of our challenges as an economy is the current account deficit. We are importing more than we export and a lot of the hard earned foreign currency that we make is going to buy trinkets, because we were operating in an over liberalised foreign exchange market. That has to stop so that we limit the usage of our hard earned foreign currency to importing only those goods which are critical to the development of the economy.
So, some of the measures that have been taken are to address the Import Bill, more particularly with respect to goods which are locally produced. A lot of those items which have been removed from the open general licence are locally produced. The goods locally produced are of a higher quality and it is for this august House to support our local industry, manufacturers and our local economy. Please support the Buy Zimbabwe Campaign. I thank you.
*HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. We have a SADC Protocol that entitles us to buy goods from SADC. Why are you now suggesting that we can no longer import goods into this country?
*HON. CHINAMASA: Hon. Sibanda did not listen to what I was
saying. We did not say that we are banning the importation of these goods. We respect the SADC Protocol that we are talking about.
Everything that we are doing is above board. It is in line with SADC Protocols. We are not barring anyone. We are saying we require one to be licenced to import such goods. It is no longer on the general open licence. That is what we are saying.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is the last supplementary question. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My own
interpretation of licencing is as good as banning. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Let us take note Madam Speaker that these people are using their own money, not Government money to cross the border. Therefore, while they were willy-nilly crossing the border and having their passports stamped, they would come back after having used their own money. If I am going to need approval where I have got my own money in my pocket, then it is equivalent to being banned.
On the issue of the manufacturing sector in this country, the CZI President Busisa Moyo, just a few days ago said the manufacturing sector had sluggish performance in the first half of this year, which is up to June. He says he does not have accurate statistics of what is going on but however, he says performance is down to 20%. This was at the CZI Conference. Against that background, how are we going to supplement the needs of Zimbabweans in terms of supply, that we were being supplied by those who were cross border traders using their own money to import?
HON. CHINAMASA: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Industry and Commerce, and Government has accurate figures and statistics on production of goods which are produced in Zimbabwe. We are aware of the national demand for those specific products and we are also aware of the gap between the level of production and national demand. The measures which are being taken are targeting only those goods which are locally produced, and for which we know the local production is meeting national demand.
If there are any queries, I am sure those affected will engage the Ministry of Industry and Commerce so that if there is any mistake, it can be corrected. Overally, we have the statistics to know what is now locally produced because we have been supporting a lot of local firms in order to produce those goods and services. – [HON. MEMEBR:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, there is no need for a point of Order Hon. Member. That is the answer from the Minister. Can we proceed with questions without notice?
HON. KACHEPA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. This country had people fighting for the liberation struggle in its entirety ...
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your question Hon.
Member?
*HON. KACHEPA: My question is directed to the Minister of
Health and Child Care. Minister this country was fought for, with all the provinces taking part and their border areas where the brunt of the liberation struggle was felt and others lost limbs. What does the Government have in store to ensure that these people get wheel chairs and artificial limbs so that the lives of these people get better?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Let us
give each other a chance to ensure that the Minister to whom the question is intended answers the question. Hon. Kachepa, to whom is your question directed to?
HON. KACHEPA: To Hon. Mupfumira.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND
SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): In the Ministry we
have a department which is responsible for occupational health. Even those that were injured during the liberation war, but the point is at the moment - those who are ill can approach the department of Social Welfare. We have Ruwa rehabilitation centre where such people get attention and they are given wheel chairs and other appliances. We urge such people to go to the Department of Social Welfare in their nearest places in their district offices. If they are not assisted they can move to the provinces until they see a doctor. The patients are examined and out of the doctors’ recommendations the person is assisted. I thank you.
HON. KACHEPA: I have posed the question because when
people come to your offices, they are asked to pay. Are they not entitled to free treatment? I am talking about the landmines that are still in the border area and these people are vulnerable. Does Government have measures in place to ensure that such people are treated free of charge?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister please respond
if I were to respond it would not be proper.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: I would like to thank Hon. Kachepa. As I
said, there is a Department of Social Welfare which is in your districts they are even found at district level. We have Community Welfare Assistants to whom you should make your concerns heard in your constituencies, they are there to assist you. The people are even assisted with bus fare and there is money to ensure that they see a doctor. Go and see a Social Welfare Officer in your district and you may go down as far as ward level, there are such people. It is your duty as a Member of Parliament to also assist your Constituents.
HON. MACHINGAUTA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. First and
foremost, let me thank the person who asked this question. It is painful that that persons who were injured in the process of liberating this country are not getting treatment. In Zimbabwe - which is 36 old after the advent of our liberation. There are those people whose limbs were severed in June 2008, may I be protected Madam Speaker?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!
HON. MACHINGAUTA: My question to the Hon. Minister is
does Government have anything in place to ensure that those whose limbs were severed in 2008 with the acronym ‘SHORT SLEEVE’ that were hurt by other Members who are in this august House, what are you going to do about them? I thank you.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: As I said earlier on Madam Speaker, we
have departments in our Ministry that attend to such issues. I urge Hon.
Members as people’s representatives to assist them by referring them to the various departments of Social Welfare. We have a bigger centre in Ruwa and another one in Bulawayo where the victims are attended to and the type of assistance needed is assessed. As Government we do not require party cards upfront and the Government is for everyone, and I represent all the people of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question
is directed to the Minister of Health and Child Care. People are having problems because of the medical expenses that are charged in hosptitals. I want to find out what measures do you have in place as a Ministry … HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order! It is a serious issue and people are suffering …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. CHAMISA: My point of order Madam Speaker is that that Hon. Mudarikwa - may he please sit down because I am raising a point of order that pertains to him – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members,
silence; we want to hear what the Hon. Member on the floor wants to
say.
HON. CHAMISA: It is important that Hon. Mudarikwa, once we give a ruling or determination, whenever he comes, he should withdraw his statement. He has uttered some unparliamentarily words that when it was being mentioned that people require medical assistance, he called out that people go ku n’anga. It is bad for people to go to traditional healers, the other time others went to Chinhoyi Curves to look for diesel because they had believed in such n’angas. I am saying he should withdraw his statement because that is a problem to Government. The Government should not believe in traditional healers, it is unparliamentarily.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is a n’anga not a traditional
healer?
HON. CHAMISA: I would not know because I do not go there. I
know not of traditional healers. It is not there in the President’s ZIM
ASSET.
*HON. TARUSENGA: My question to the Minister of Health is
that people are suffering because of the exorbitant fees that hospitals are charging. What measures does the Minister have in place to ensure that people access affordable health care?
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for the question. As the Ministry of Health and Child Care; it is our hope that all people access affordable health care. We have policies that entitle children who are below five years to free medical aid, women that are pregnant during ante and post natal care, up until they get to six weeks, should not pay for such services. Senior citizens who are older than 65 years old should not pay.
However, I have observed that in some of the hospitals and clinics, they have what we call a card fee which is illegal. Our policy is that these groups of people that I have mentioned are entitled to free medical aid. At times, this cannot be done because they require money for drugs. We also assist through the Ministry of Public Service and Social Services they have an assistance scheme where the vulnerable persons can be given a voucher which they can use to access medical care. Payment is difficult; we would want to ensure that the Ministry of Health receives a large chunk of the budget so as to enable us to meet our running costs. I thank you.
HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Hon. Minister, I have
understood, you have talked about children that are below five years and those who are above 65 years that they are entitled to free medical care. The issue is in line with the age groups that you have left out. This is the working class and our unemployment rate is above 80%. So, my question is that the unemployed people have no money to access medical care. As a Government, what are we doing to ensure that they have reasonable medical care?
HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: Those that are unemployed are
the ones who should be helped by the Department of Social Welfare if they are in dire-straits. It is housed in the Ministry of Hon. Mupfumira; you can be referred at each and every Hospital to the department of
Social Welfare. I thank you.
HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Three hours
ago, I was at a hospital with a baby who is three months and 48 hours old. There has been no medication at that hospital, I had to pay US$6 to ensure that I buy drugs yet that child is entitled to free health care.
Furthermore, were you given your allocation from the budget by the Government and how much. If so, are you using it because I have had to pay out of my pocket – [HON. MEMBER: Nyarara.] – handinyarare. HON. DR. PARIRENYATWA: I am sorry that you had to pay
US$6 for your child’s medication. This is the topical issue that in our hospitals, we need further funding to ensure that we have drugs in stock so that once we visit a hospital, some basic medication should be readily available once a prescription has been made by a doctor. We are having challenges in that regard. It is our plea that this august House should be constantly clamoring for ensuring that the Ministry of Health and Child
Care’s budget has a bigger chunk. However, we have challenges with sanctions that are constantly being referred to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - you have been told by Hon. Chinamasa that the majority of our people are now in the informal sector and that helps us. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Supplementary questions are
over; you may come up with another question.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not recognise you Hon.
Holder. No, no! I do not want a point of order – [HON. MEMBER:
Akadhakwa.]- Order, order! Let there be order at the entrance – [HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjections.]-please do not assist me in executing my duties. It is not proper.
HON. MADONDO: My question is directed to the Minister of
Finance and Economic Development. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy regarding the resuscitation of the fertilizer industry. We are realising here, like Omnia Fertilizer, is importing its products against your policy. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I would respectfully ask
the Hon. Member to direct his question to the appropriate Minister who is the Minister of Industry and Commerce.
HON. MADONDO: I redirect my question to the Minister of
Industry and Commerce.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
recognise the very important question about resuscitation of the fertilizer industry. I am happy to inform the House that we are in the process of resuscitating the industry firstly, by looking at the resuscitation of producing Compound D through the resuscitation of Dorowa.
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe has already advanced some grant to Dorowa Mine for its resuscitation and in turn, the rehabilitation of the Msasa plant that will make sure that the capacity utilisation and production of the compound D will equate to the demand of the country.
I thank you.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I need your protection from this group on this side here. Madam Speaker, we are two thirds on this side of Parliament and this side, they are getting more advantage. I am looking at Hon. Mnangagwa standing up, sitting down and standing up again and not being recognised and only this side is being recognised. Thank you.
*HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question to the Deputy Minister is that she has said that they would want to resuscitate the industry’s manufacturing companies through the Reserve Bank programme. My question is, because of the shortage of cash and the statement that was given by the President of the Fertilizer Association that the reason why they are not manufacturing sufficient fertilizer is because they have no money for the procurement of raw materials and resuscitating such industries.
You are now saying that the Reserve Bank has given a cash injection. He said this yesterday and we are all aware that we do not have cash in this country. How are you going to go about this? I thank you, Madam Speaker.
*HON. MABUWA: Thank you for the follow up question as
regards to the resuscitation of the fertilizer industry. The point is that we look at our priorities as a country and fertilizer production is one of our top priorities since Zimbabwe is an agro-based economy. The point I make is that we found it proper that, in terms of prioritising the allocation of the little cash that we have, the fertilizer industry should be resuscitated initially, through the production of Compound D, that if we produce lime, it will then produce Compound D. That is why we are resuscitating Dorowa, so that we go up with the value chain of fertilizer production to the point that we get to ammonium nitrate. Our approach is a value chain one and we started from the onset. I thank you.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, seriously, I think we need a breathalyzer in this House.
Why I am saying so, I suspect…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are out of order. Can
you take your seat please? That is not your duty.
*HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Energy and Power Development. We observe that the number of people that are being murdered is now on the rise which is now putting pressure on our police force. What are you doing to ensure that we have street lights on our roads? The poles are there, but there is no light. May you look in that direction? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. T. MUZENDA): Madam Speaker, I did not
understand the question.
*HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Even if the question is not in your ambit, I have observed that the number of murders is on the rise because of the darkness, there are no street lights. May we have street lights so that we can have light? The poles are there. Whether you put solar powered light or whatever is the question I am asking. What are you going to do about it? I thank you.
*HON. T. MUZENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would
like to thank Hon. Mnangagwa for the question. If it is anything to do with street lights, they are under the purview of the municipality. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: If it is your own
supplementary you want it to be done, if it is someone’s you do not want, what is wrong with you Hon. Members.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: My supplementary is that maybe she
may not have been straight to the point. Mine is in regards to the original question. We have a company that has a contract called Solar Heat which has been given a contract..
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, the question is not
originating from the first question.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker, my question is
directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, Hon. Chinamasa. We have observed that Dr. Mangudya made a pronouncement that the country will introduce a currency that had been turned down some time ago. After this statement, we started experiencing cash crisis in the banks. Minister, you are aware of the hardships that our people are facing in this country, what are you doing to alleviate this problem as Government? The RBZ Governor said they would want to give import incentives from the US$200m. Which industries do you expect to be exporting because a lot of mines have closed and the same applies to manufacturing, clothing, horticulture, beef industry and retail? What are you going to be exporting and who are your beneficiaries so that our economy can be revived? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Madam Speaker, it is
always my rare privilege to educate the Hon. Member on – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – before I come to specifically answer the question raised by the Hon. Member, let me explain in brief the background. The background is that we are a unique country on the continent and in the world, one of only three countries which has no currency of its own. The other two countries are Panama and Ecuador.
Now, what that means is that we have lost the power of seigniorage, we cannot print money. We have again in a very unique way been using the US dollar not just for imports but also to finance domestic transactions. Like I have said on other occasions, tinoshandisa maUS dollar, foreign currency reserve, kutenga mazhanje, madora, mbeva, ipwa ne matomato. Other countries build vaults to keep the foreign currency reserves in US dollars because a US dollar currency is a global currency. If you have US dollars now, you can drop anywhere in the world and you will be able to use the US dollars, it will be acceptable. No other currencies match that quality.
Now in our case, we went into challenges to do with appreciation of the US dollar and precipitous fall of the South African Rand, our major trading partner. What that meant was that we became an expensive tourist destination, an expensive producer and this was exacerbated by the fact that when we migrated from the ZIM dollar, we migrated with hyper-inflationary figures into the US dollar domain.
Now, in order to address all those challenges, we decided that we should incentivise exporters. Why we are incentivising exporters is because our only two sources of foreign currency as we are, is only exports and diaspora remittances. Diaspora remittances are not coming in a structured way. So we have to fall back more primarily on exports. So, we need to incentivise exports. We are saying if you export US$100 worth of goods, we give you US$5 and we then issue bond notes relative to the volume of exports that are being generated.
I want you also to understand Hon. Member, through you Mr.
Speaker, that another challenge we faced was that the US dollar being a foreign currency reserve currency, is now commoditized meaning people do not look at it as a medium of exchange. They look at it as an asset which they keep under the pillow, in drawers and so forth. When we introduced the US dollar, we meant it to be a medium of exchange.
Now if money is being withdrawn and not being deposited, it means that there is no money in circulation and the circulation of money is what makes an economy. If money is not circulating, it means business transactions cannot be undertaken.
So, the measures that we introduced are intended to boost exports through the incentive of issuance of bond notes. The point you made about the return of the ZIM dollar, ZIM dollar is not coming back until certain micro-economic fundamentals are met. We need to build reserves before we can consider bringing back the ZIM dollar. We need to expedite parastatals reform; we need to address the issue of the current account deficit, and we also need to address the issue of the fiscal deficit. We need to address the proportion of the wage bill within the framework of the revenues. When some of those macro-economic fundamentals are addressed, the import bill which we were addressing not so long ago - when all those things are addressed, we can then be in a position to say that we are considering the return of the ZIM dollar but not now.
For now, it is a multi-currency basket and we are taking measures to boost and strengthen the multi-currency regime and to this end, we have issued out directives to all Government departments, all parastatals which offer goods and services to say that they must accept payment of services and goods in any currency which is in the basket. We hope that through this measure we can have a balance of other currencies competing within the sector – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Mari ichawanikwa rini?] – Mari iriko kumabanks, kune US$6.2b in deposits, if you did not know that – [HON. MEMBERS: Supplementary.] – THE HON. SPEAKER: Order who asked the main question?
HON. CHAMISA: I asked the question and I have deferred it to any of the members to democratize the asking of questions – [Laughter.] –
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, through you, let me thank the
Minister for that very decent response to the first question. Minister, you list all these fundamentals that you must deal with but you have not mentioned one crucial issue, the issue of corruption. Day in - day out, we have a Minister being talked about in relation to corruption - US$4m, US$5m at ZESA, you have not talked about it. What are you doing to address the issue of corruption, especially amongst your colleagues in Cabinet?
HON. CHINAMASA: First, Mr. Speaker with respect, it is not an issue arising from the question asked by Hon. Chamisa, but I will however respond to it. The issue of corruption like I have explained on many occasions, you ask any lawyer, corruption is a very complex crime. It is not easy to investigate because the briber and the bribed have both benefitted. So, neither of them will report themselves to the police. In order to fight it successfully, you need to put in place systems to prevent it from happening and to seek to close the door after the horse has bolted. Those are the measures we are taking in all the Government parastatals that fall under Government.
I will be bringing to this august House two important Bills, which I hope I will receive the support of this august House. We are bringing
Public and State Enterprises Corporate Governance Bill which will set out what our expectations are on corporate governance in parastatals. The other Bill is to deal with procurement. We are decentralising and setting up a regulatory board to oversee the procurement by entities that are procurement entities. Now, you must look at corruption not as an event but a process and a multi-thronged process to address all the issues that are involved. A lot of you expect it to be just an event. The other challenge we face in fighting corruption is that most of the time, it is all rumours. No witness has come forward to become a witness(es) in a court of law – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 64.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order. My point of order arises from the question I raised last week to say after Question Time, can we have a full statement from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to update this House on the situation about bond notes, considering that people are being told that they can only withdraw up to $600 in cash. They cannot access their money and the parliamentarians are confused on what is happening. Which law did they use to end up with this promulgation without addressing Parliament?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, would you be in a
position in the near future to give a Ministerial Statement to explain the issues accordingly.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): With pleasure Mr. Speaker
Sir. I would only just beg that next week, I will not be available but thereafter, I will be in a position to do so.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Last week you ruled that – in fact you were supposed to rule on it on Thursday but unfortunately you were not there. This week you are around, in terms of asking the Executive especially when the Leader of the House is not around. We did have a serious challenge today. He only came, I think recently about ten minutes ago and we did have a challenge about asking some pertinent questions with regard to the Acting Leader of the House. Maybe, you also need to help us on that one.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I just want to say in
response to the Hon. Member, when the Leader of the House is not there, I would be acting in his place. So, you should ask the questions –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister for the
clarification. There is need for clear liaison between the Leader of Government Business so that in his absence you are available accordingly.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DISTRICT HOSPITAL IN MUZARABANI
- HON. MUFUNGA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to state when the Ministry will construct a district hospital in
Muzarabani District.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking that question. The Ministry has plans in its infrastructure development plan to construct a district hospital in Muzarabani District, but the current economic conditions are not allowing it. However, the
Ministry will continue to submit project proposals to possible funders.
To ensure that there is quality delivery of health care to the populace of Muzarabani, the Ministry has St. Alberts Mission Hospital as a designated district hospital and Government has been supporting it in terms of staffing, drugs and surgical, and infrastructure.
SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN CLINICS
- HON. A. MNANGAGWA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care whether the Ministry is aware that there is shortage of nurses in clinics in many constituencies and if it is possible for the Ministry to employ nurses who live in those areas.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): I would like to thank Hon. Mnangagwa for the question. Mr. Speaker, the Ministry is aware of the shortages of nurses in rural health centres and clinics. The shortages arise from the underlined reasons that the rural health centres and clinics with vacant and frozen posts, these posts cannot be filled as they are affected by the policy on the freeze of vacant posts. The majority of these posts are grant aided posts in mission and council health facilities. The Ministry continues to engage the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development over the matter.
The new rural health centres and clinics, some of whom have no authorised establishment, that is the second reason. A number of health centres and clinics were constructed with the input from communities in a bid to reduce travelling distances and increase access to health care. Provincial Medical Directors have had to withdraw nurses from other rural health centres and clinics to provide services in these areas. This increases the workload on those facilities and results in burn out of the staff concerned.
In some cases, nurses go for further studies for six months to a year. This will leave health facilities short staffed during the period when members are on an approved manpower development leave. We have also looked at the employment of nurses into those areas. We can consider this wherever possible, subject to availability of an authorised post and Treasury concurrence to fill the vacant posts. Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
STATUS OF THE LUPANE COAL-BED METHANE GAS
PROJECT
- HON. NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development to update the House on the status of the Lupane Coal-Bed
Methane Gas Project which is expected to boost the country’s energy generation capacity by an additional 300MW of electricity.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for asking the question regarding the Coal-Bed Methane potential in Matabeleland North. Zimbabwe has got the largest coal gas resources in the region. A number of companies have been given concessions within the Lupane-Lubimbi area to explore for this gas. A company called Discovery is one of those companies that has done substantial work and have established minable resource of this gas.
Other companies have concessions in the area namely ZMDC and Hwange Colliery. These companies are looking for partners to help them develop this gas potential. We invite interested companies that wish to enter this sector to approach the Ministry so that we can give them support to enter the sector. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have got a supplementary question. My question is when do we expect that we will have some movement after you have allocated and allotted some of those concessions to those companies that you allude to?
HON. F. MOYO: Hon. Speaker, we only have one company which I have mentioned, Discovery Resources that has done work to the extent of reaching commercial stage. We are negotiating with that company to see what structure of investment can be put in place so that they can move to the stage of gas development. The other companies that I mentioned are very far from reaching production stage as they still have to do exploration work. So, I would say for those companies that are still to do exploration work, it is probably an issue of raising funding, finding partners who will be able to take them into this first stage of exploring for the gas. So, we can only look for this one company that has done enough work to reach
commercial stage. Thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg leave
to move that Questions Number 7 to 50 be stood over until Questions
Number 51, 52, 54 and 55 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
VALUE OF DUTY FREE CERTIFICATES IMPORTS IN
2014/2015
- HON. CROSS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to inform the House what the total value of duty free certificates for imports were in 2014 and 2015, and to indicate them separately for the different agencies of Government.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, duty free
certificates are used for duty free clearance of imported for the exclusive use of Government. In line with Treasury Circular No. 13 of 2005, in 2014 and 2015, about US$292 million and US$258.5 million worth of goods were imported by Government departments respectively. Duty free certificates cannot be used to clear goods for individuals, parastatals local authorities or similar organisations formed through an Act of
Parliament.
However, it is important to note that some Government departments, particularly Ministry of Health and Child Care also receive donated goods from external donors. The goods are also cleared using duty free certificates. Furthermore, other critical Government departments use retained funds to import goods for their operations. The Government, cognisant of the potential abuse of duty free certificates to clear goods for private consumption, has put in place measures to minimise such loopholes.
This includes the removal of selected motor vehicles from the use of duty free certificate facilities. The table below shows Government importation of goods.
IMPORTS BY GOVERNMENT: 2014 AND 2015
Ministry | 2014 Imports | 2015 Imports |
Ministry of Media,
Information & Publicity |
366,082.19 | 77,596.05 |
Ministry of Women Affairs, Gender Community | 147,977.55 | - |
Ministry of Youth,
Indigenisation & Economic Empowerment |
183,866.04 | - |
Ministry of Information Communication | - | 64,428.43 |
Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development | 15,844,567.35 | 8,608,077.54 |
Ministry of Defence | 21,192,622.01 | 9,837,178.94 |
Ministry of Education | 3,098,971.70 | 1,011,812.49 |
Ministry of Energy & Power Development | 81,386.10 | 105.718.32 |
Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources | 968,776.39 | 2,997420.87 |
Ministry of Finance and Economic Development | 13,921,216.13 | 794,857.26 |
Ministry of Foreign Affairs | 11,345.49 | 19,046.64 |
Ministry of Health and Child Care | 181,946,613.56 | 162,308,739.26
|
Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education | 5,906,162.81 | 474,669.85 |
Ministry of Industry and
Commerce |
177,588.91 | 130,751.23 |
Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs | 4,592,812.36 | 4,300,396.16 |
Ministry of Lands and Land Reform | - | 482,228.91 |
Ministry of Local
Government, Public Works |
930,474.10 | 116,403.88 |
Ministry of Mines and Mining Development | 337,834.51 | 41,093.24 |
Ministry of Public Service | 566,039.51 | 2,286,516.89 |
Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises | 26,784.00 | 560,624.91 |
Ministry of Sports, Arts and Culture | 81,193.45 | 167.255.98 |
Ministry of Tourism and Hospitality Management | - | 42,352,180.24 |
Ministry of Transport and
Infrastructural Development |
8,614,117.92 | 5,015,606.43 |
President’s Department | 10,017,191.49 | 7,310,132.84 |
Ministry of Home Affairs | 23,639,553.73 | 7,585,456.66 |
Ministry of Labour | - | 1,896,130.24 |
Grand Total | 292,287,095.11 | 258,544,323.26 |
I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to know if his reply identifies the agencies involved?
HON. CHINAMASA: Yes, ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not get your question Hon. Cross?
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to know if his reply identified the agencies involved and they do. So I am quite satisfied.
Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir I am
going to attach tables. The Civil Service Head Count Bill excluding unformed personnel for the period 2012 to end of March 2016 stood as per table which I am attaching to my answer and it is a long table. The corresponding wage bill is also attached and reflected in a table which is also in my response. So with the permission of the House, I submit my answer, including the tables for Hon. Members to follow those tables through the Hansard. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, question No. 53 has not been
addressed yet.
HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not have the answer
to that yet. I also do not have answers to questions 56 to 65, and 66 which I only got aware of just this afternoon.
HON. CROSS: Mr. Speaker Sir, I just want to express my
appreciation to the Minister for the replies.
CIVIL SERVICE PENSIONERS ON GOVERNMENT SYSTEM IN
2015 AND RESULTS OF AUDIT
- HON. CROSS asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to give details of the numbers of Civil Service Pensioners on the Government system in 2015 and the results of the audit conducted during the year and details of the action taken to ensure that only legitimate pensioners are receiving their pensions.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, details on
the numbers of Civil Service pensioners on the Government system
2015 and the attendant pension bill are set out in my table and written answer. Once again I ask and pray that the Hon. Member can follow the figures through the Hansard as follows:
Month | Number of Pension
Beneficiaries |
Monthly
Pension Bill [US$] |
January | 377 228 | 39 800 000 |
February | 396 298 | 39 800 000 |
March | 380 496 | 39 800 000 |
April | 388 162 | 39 800 000 |
May | 380 844 | 39 800 000 |
June | 382 856 | 39 800 000 |
July | 381 260 | 39 800 000 |
August | 381 934 | 39 800 000 |
September | 389 174 | 39 800 000 |
October | 381 428 | 39 800 000 |
November | 389 174 | 39 800 000 |
December | 377 342 | 39 800 000 |
Total | 477 600 000 |
Audit of the Pension Payroll
The audit of the pension payroll, through the instrument of Life Certificates, is being administered by my fellow colleague, the Hon.
Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.
In this regard, I am sure that the Hon. Minister will inform the
House upon completion of that audit. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
IMPROVEMENT OF PRODUCTION AT HWANGE COLLIERY
COMPANY
- HON. NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development to explain the measures the Ministry is taking to ensure further improved production at Hwange Colliery Company that has received a fresh injection of capital from Government for the purchase of mining equipment.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is a vehicle number. AD 19273,
that is blocking other vehicles.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I
thank Hon. Nduna for his question. The Ministry is working with other shareholders to try and reposition the fortunes of Hwange Colliery
Company. The focus areas at the moment are to re-craft the company’s business model in order to lower overheads. The company will now have its main business being operated separate from the social service delivery sector of the current business structure. That will assist the company to recover costs as well as lower the overheads of its operations.
The second area of focus is one of creating a shared asset vision which is still to be discussed with ZPC and NRZ, but that is an area that is an area we are looking at focusing to try and to reduce the capital requirements of the company. The third area of focus is to right size the employment levels of the company. The company currently employs over 3 000 employees. The business permutation indicates that the correct level of employment will be around 2 000 employees so that is another area of focus.
The challenge that the company is facing as an immediate threat is one of litigation. Government, together with shareholders has put in place a scheme of arrangement that has been authorized by the High Court. The aim of the scheme of arrangement is to get the creditors to agree with the company to stay all litigation against the company and to approve the reconstruction business plan which I have talked about in my earlier comments. To this end, a meeting of the company and its creditors is planned for the 14th of July and we believe that there will be a meeting of heads and that the company will be protected against litigation, thereby allowing all revenues and finances that it has to be directed towards the productive efforts. So, we will be briefing the House on an ongoing basis as to the developments in the company. I thank you Hon. Speaker Sir.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I speak in particular about the capital injection that Government has made into Hwange Colliery. It is feared, unless the Minister can allay those fears, that the equipment that was bought by a loan, that was injected into that company is obsolete. It is being used in a country which does not allow to be used because of its weather pattern. May the Minister clarify on that point whether the equipment that was put there and bought for the company is obsolete or not, and if it is - what is he doing in order to get a redress of that situation?
HON. F. MOYO: I can confirm to the House that the equipment that has been ordered by the company is usable. I am also confirming that the equipment is in fact new and I do confirm as well that some pieces of equipment have not been in serviceable condition. In other words, these pieces of equipment have exhibited technical problems that are being addressed. The equipment that came from Belarus seems to be in good condition.
The equipment that came from BEML of India has exhibited problems centered on excavators. This issue has been discussed with the supplier of the equipment. We have elevated the matter to the Embassy and I can confirm that the parties are cooperating although a permanent solution has not yet been ushered in.
The supplier of the equipment has extended the insurance and guarantees and the Embassy of India is doing everything they can to assist us to push the supplier to make sure that the equipment that is not working well is in fact brought to order.
I must also say that our working conditions, the environment in which the equipment is working is not that conducive, not all the time to the proper use of the equipment. So, we have to do our part on our side as Zimbabwe, to make sure that the mine operates with the correct standards that are expected when they are using the kind of equipment that they have got.
As an overall comment, I want to say that the mining activity is a process; the equipment that is being used or that must be used must talk to each other. In other words, the equipment must be optimised so that it is of the correct sizes, correct cycles and have operators that are able to relate to one another. This area of optimising the production process is what we are looking at and we are trying to resolve.
The company also has the challenge of getting working capital to get fuel, to get consumable spares in place so that the equipment does not shut down. We are trying to get local financial sectors to assist the company. I am going to be talking to some of our bankers as early as tomorrow, to try and see if the company can in fact access some short term loan to close the gap of working capital shortages and I believe that we will be successful in these engagements. It is our belief and hope that production will begin to pick up. As I have already said, this Hon. House will be kept informed on developments because we do realise that this is a strategic company. We do realise that coal stocks at some power stations are critically low. Thank you.
HON. SANSOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister confirm that in spite of the new equipment that has been commissioned, Hwange Colliery Company still relies more on contract mining particularly, Motor Angele rather than its own mining. If so what action is being taken to address that situation? Thank you.
HON. F. MOYO: Hon. Speaker, I do concede that since the purchase of the new equipment up to date, the contractor, Motor Angele has in fact produced more of the coal that is being sold than the company itself. The reason has been that, as I said, the equipment that we bought was deployed in an area that would not have allowed the company to produce more and surpass the coal that is coming from the contractor.
We have instructed the company to relocate the equipment to go to an easier to operate area that suits parallel to where the contractor is working. It is our expectation that entering July, the company should produce for the first time more coal than that which is coming from the contractor. So, we believe the correct decisions are being taken.
HON. NDUNA: Could the Minister explain to this House, how much in terms of percentages, quantum of the equipment at work or the production in place because of the obsolete equipment that is currently at Hwange. It is either the equipment at work is going to produce for us the percentage amount of production that is currently prevailing because of equipment that is obsolete.
HON. F. MOYO: I am not sure if I have understood the question precisely but let me try and answer. The pieces of equipment that were purchased amount to about 35, I cannot be exact. Out of that equipment, I said only two pieces are giving problems which is the two excavators that belong to the suite that came from India. With regards to the output, our plan at the moment is that this equipment must produce a minimum of 150 000 tonnes per month and the contractor will produce a 150 000 tonnes per month and that will give 300 000 tonnes of coal per month.
That should more or less satisfy the current market demand.
RESUSCITATION OF KAMATIVI TIN MINE
- HON. NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development to state the progress the Ministry has made in resuscitating Kamativi Tin Mine following the successful engagement of investors and to indicate when the mine would be operational.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERAL
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Hon. Speaker, the Government
has entered into a joint venture with a Chinese investor, Beijing Pinchang. The investor is expected to inject US$100 million into the project.
Government entered into this agreement through ZMDC and the parties have started working on financial closure issue. We hope that these last discussions will be concluded soon. There are conditions or precedence, that the targeted investor must satisfy and I would like to say that a permanent announcement would be made by the Ministry once these discussions are finalised.
HON. SANSOLE: Could the Minister give an indication as to what sort of period we are looking at? I am asking this question because since 2009 when Hon. Chimanikire was Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development, we have been told that an investor has been found and Kamativi will open soon and the soon has extended to seven years. Thank you.
HON. F. MOYO: I think this is the closest that we have come to signing and finalising an agreement. The conditions precedence must be satisfied, if my recollection is correct, during this month of July. So, either it happens by end of July, I think. If we do not conclude by then, then the parties have failed to agree. If the parties agree, a permanent position will be concluded in July and the project should take-off.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, with leave of the House, I move that questions 9 to 49 be stood over until question Number 50 is disposed of.
FEES CHARGED BY LAWYERS FOR PROCESSING DEED
TRANSFERS
- HON. M. D. V. MAWERE asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to consider regulating fees charged by lawyers and publishing houses for the processing of Deeds of Transfers.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mawere asked a very crucial question. This is especially in view of worrying reports of bogus and unscrupulous lawyers who are on the prowl to fleece the public of their hard earned cash in matters relating to the transfer of real rights or immovable property. The processing of deeds transfers squarely falls under this category.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you may be aware that the preparation of deeds of transfer of immovable property is the exclusive domain of Notary
Publics, who in Zimbabwe can only be registered Legal Practitioners.
This is prescribed by Section 13 of the Legal Practitioners Act of 1981. The profession of legal practice in Zimbabwe is self-regulated through the Law Society of Zimbabwe (LSZ). The LSZ is the legal profession’s governing body that is set up in terms of Section 51 of the Legal Practitioners Act. Every registered legal practitioner is entitled to be a member.
The society is managed and controlled by a council that is composed of not less than eleven councilors, of whom at least nine are elected by members. The remaining minority of the membership is appointed by the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. Since the majority of the membership is elected, there is therefore, adequate scope for the council to be independent and self regulating.
The function and powers of the Law Society are set out in terms of
Section 53 of the Act.
That notwithstanding, we have not allowed the legal profession to exercise absolute self-regulation on matters pertaining to public interest. As intimated to earlier on, of the 11 councillors, at least two are appointed by me, as the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. That is important as it provides the necessary checks and balances in the self-regulation with public interest as the guiding principle of the participation of the Minister in determining the partial membership of the LSC.
One of our crucial areas of interest is the interaction of the public with legal practitioners of their choice is that of the tariff regime used by the LSZ. This is crucial because as policy makers, we want to ensure and guarantee that the general public’s quest for affordable and quality legal council from lawyers, including matters of deeds transfer, is fulfilled. In that vein, we have put in place, by means of Statutory Instrument and by-laws or regulations or regulations, parameters within which the fees are charged on clients. While there are a number of pieces of legislation which are relevant, only two are of interest in addressing Hon. Mawere’s question.
Firstly, attorneys in general practice are required to charge their clients fees in terms of the General Tariff of Fees for Legal Practitioners, approved by the Minister of Justice and published by the Law Society of Zimbabwe, with effect from February 2011. The Law Society Tariff requires that Legal Practitioners charge fees on an hourly basis, though it is recommended that attorneys break down the hour into smaller units to ensure accurate billing. The rate charged per hour is dependent on the individual Legal Practitioner experience with an inexperience on obviously, charging considerably less than a seniour one.
The second regulatory framework which, in this case, is the most relevant in addressing Hon. Mawere’s question, is Statutory Instrument 24 of 2013 called The Law Society of Zimbabwe (Conveyancing Fees) By-Laws. As the name suggests, this document sets out the fees to be charged for all conveyancing work including transfer of properties and the registration of mortgage bonds. The fees charged are a percentage of the overall value of the property concerned and are calculated on a sliding scale, that is, the percentage that one is allowed to charge decreases and the value of the property increases. The Conveyancing By-Laws are a comparatively recent addition to the profession.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in view of the reasoning that has found sense in my foregoing response, it is clear that the tariff regime applied by lawyers in processing deeds transfers is regulated by us to a considerable degree, principally in as far as implementing the public interest principle is concerned. This is so because it is imperative that all the Statutory Instrument I alluded to, should pass through for my approval before they are promulgated.
It is significant to note that legal practitioners are legally obliged to charge fees that are fair and reasonable. Therefore, it is considered by the law that the charging of a fee higher or lower than that set out in the Tariff is illegal. As such, it is mandatory for legal practitioners to charge fees in terms of the Tariff or face the real risk of disciplinary action for charging unreasonable fees.
Mr. Speaker Sir, now that I have clarified the position in terms of the law in as far as the existence of a regulation framework or fees charged by lawyers, I have to turn to the second part. The second part deals with the regulation of fees charged by publishing houses in the process of deeds transfer. Publishing is done through press, as a way of giving notice to interested parties who may potentially claim rights on the same immovable property. Publishing is usually done in the press of one’s choice, as long as that publishing house has the capacity of a wider and substantial reach.
The business of publishing lies in the competitive environment, where the supply and demand variables of a free market are at play. It is the duty of the public to choose the cheapest publisher of such notices of their choice. However, the policy nitty-gritty of the potential regulation of publishing of such notices resides in the Ministry of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services. I can only articulate with certainty the policy status regarding the regulation of fees by lawyers as
I am the custodian of the same.
Allow me to conclude by urging all Honourable Members to encourage their constituencies to attend the “Open Days” that are usually organised by the Judiciary Services Commission for the general public for free in different districts around the country. This can expose our people to useful information on how the legal system in our country operates. I also house crucial departments under my Ministry, such as: the Constitutional and Parliamentary Affairs, the Law Development Commission, the Policy Legal Research, the Deeds Registry and most importantly, the Legal Aid Directorate because of its decentralised status. These departments are a treasure trove of free information and materials that simplify the legal processes, including the conveyancing processes. Surely, that can be helpful to the public if you need to know about the legal process in the country. Thank you.
OPERATIONALISATION OF THE CADASTRE MINING TITLES
MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEM
- HON. NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development to update the House on the progress that the Ministry has made in introducing and operationalising the Cadastre Mining Titles Management Information System.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker. The official signing of the Cadastre Mining Titles Management System was done on 23rd February, 2016 between the Ministry of Mines and Mining
Development and a South African Service Provider called Spatial Dimensions. The project is now under implementation phase. Thank you.
STOPAGE OF ILLEGAL MINING ACTIVITIES AT PEACE MINE
- HON. M.M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Mines and
Mining Development to inform the House:
- When the Ministry will stop the illegal mining activities that are taking place at Peace Mine;
- Why the Ministry has taken this long to address the challenges in view of the fact that the matter was reported to the police last year in January, 2015, and also debated in the National Assembly on 7th
October, 2015;
- Explain what the Ministry is doing to curtail the corruption taking place at Peace Mine where a few individuals benefit from the Mine proceeds at the expense of the local community.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Hon. Speaker, on question 10 (a) when the Ministry will stop the illegal mining activities that are taking place at Peace Mine, the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development issued a suspension order to get the mine to cease operations on 17th February, 2016. Further to that suspension order, the Ministry also wrote to the police on the same matter. The police have however, not yet acted on the request of the Ministry to enforce the suspension order due to their perceived legal challenges in the matter. The Ministry issued the suspension order due to unorganised work processes, which constituted to dangerous mining activities.
There were also issues of poor financial administration that needed to be attended to. The Minister of Home Affairs has been requested further to assist to enforce the suspension order in order to allow full investigations to take place.
On question (b), the Ministry has been urging the Silobela Development Community Trust to run the mine according to the provisions of the Mines and Minerals Act, particularly with respect to the appointment of a mine manager, establishing underground mine design systems which are missing at the moment and establishing an approved citing of works plan which is mandatory as it protects concerns of Safety, Health and Environmental standards. However, the Trust has not been able to heed the advice and recommendations from the
Ministry, resulting in the suspension order.
With regards to question (c), the Silobela Community
Development Trust has refused the mine manager entry into the mine.
On 2nd April, 2016, the Ministry wrote to the Officer Commanding ZRP Midlands Province seeking the assistance of the police to allow the mine manager to access the mine in order for the manager to remedy the issues of concern that I have talked about. The Ministry continues to conduct routine inspections on the mine in the absence of the mine manager. The Trust has not yet appointed a manager since the removal of the one who was in place. It must be noted that the appointment of a mine manager is the prerogative of the employer, while the Ministry’s role is one of approving such appointments. The comments made above that refer to the Community Trust assume that decisions are indeed
being made by the Trust as an institution and that corporate governance is being observed in the decisions that the Trust make. Thank you.
HON. M. M. MPOFU: Since we have cited all these challenges, what are we supposed to do as a community since we have asked Government departments to help us? Up to now, there is no help and the community is still crying. So, I would want to ask the Minister what our next port of call is.
HON. F. MOYO: Madam Speaker, I take note of the Hon.
Member’s concerns, particularly that he is the legislator for the area and he would be concerned if things do not appear to be functioning according to the country’s laws. We expect the community to try and congregate and get their Trust to work. That prerogative is theirs. On the side of the Ministry, I can confirm that my Minister and his counterpart, the Minister of Home Affairs are discussing the matter to see how best the matter can be pushed forward to seek an amicable solution but at least ensure that the law is being observed. So, the matter is now being attended to at ministerial level.
DISCOVERY OF GOLD AND PLATINUM DEPOSITS IN KARIBA
- HON. MUDYIWA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining Development that, following the discovery of gold and platinum deposits in Kariba recently, what measures are in place to ensure that the
Chiadzwa Diamond mines debacle is not repeated.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): In line with Government
policy which says that all riverbed mining should be done by
Government or through a Government entity, the Ministry has mandated the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamonds Mining Development (ZCDC), a wholly owned Government company, to conduct evaluation exercises and then embark on the subsequent mining of the identified deposits. Appropriate equipment is being looked at and is being mobilised. This includes, exploration equipment so that mining is done in an efficient manner. We have mentioned that there may be diamonds there but for now, I think the confirmed position is that there are gold deposits in alluvial form and we still need to confirm whether there will be commercial diamonds in the river. Thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Madam Speaker, I move that Questions
with Notice time be extended.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I object.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Madam Speaker, I moved and Hon.
Nduna seconded.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Yes, there was an objection, if
there is anyone who is objecting to that….
HON. MUNENGAMI: Madam Speaker, the objection only
came after I had been seconded.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is the procedure Hon.
Member. You move for the extension and someone else must second you but if there is an objection, then we take the objection. That are the rules of Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Munengami, can you please respect this House.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I respect the House….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, the decision has been made and you must follow it – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Munengami, behave yourself.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
COMPLETION OF MORTUARY AT KANA HOSPITAL
- HON. O. NCUBE asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to state when the mortuary at Kana Hospital in Gokwe – Kana
Constituency will be completed.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Kana Mission Hospital is currently being funded through the Public Sector Investment Programme and $40
000.00 has been disbursed to the hospital. They have used it for the refurbishment of the Out Patients section, new ablution blocks, construction of new kitchen and replacement of roofs in the male and female wards, pharmacy, staff room, dressing room and verandas. The hospital is still included in the 2016 Budget and it is the prerogative of the respective institution to make its own priorities and they can put the mortuary as their next priority project if funds are made available by
Treasury.
ADVERTISEMENT INVITING NURSES TO SEEK EMPLOYMENT
IN SOUTH SUDAN
- HON. MASIYA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care:
- to state whether he is aware of the advertisement in the media inviting state registered nurses to seek employment in South Sudan;
- if so, can the Minister appraise the House of their employment benefits and allay fears that they may be exploited;
- to assure the House that the nurses will be safe from the civil wars in South Sudan; and
- to indicate how many Zimbabwean nurses have taken this
offer.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): Both the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the South Sudanese Embassy are not aware of the advert in the media inviting State Registered Nurses to seek employment in South Sudan. This was only brought to the attention of the Ministry through the question from Parliament.
If there are any advertisements to be done, this will have to be discussed by the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Health Services Board, guided by consultations at the appropriate levels. Work is still in progress on a Government to Government agreement with the South Sudanese Government on a bilateral agreement on export of health workers.
Should the Government to Government agreement be finalised, such issues will be looked into with advice from the Attorney General’s office.
This will be discussed with the South Sudanese Government at the appropriate time. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, through their embassies, would be able to give guidance on security matters.
On how many Zimbabweans have taken this offer, none through the Ministry of Health and Child Care.
POLICY REGARDING BURIAL OF STILL BORN BABIES
- HON. MASUKU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain the policy regarding the burial of still born babies.
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON.
- PARIRENYATWA): This depends on the wishes of the family, some will say it is a death in the family and would consider it for burial.
Otherwise, the majority will be incinerated at the hospital.
CONSTRUCTION OF SHASHE BORDER POST
- HON. S. NCUBE asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to state when Shashe Border Post would be constructed.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Shashe border post started
operating on 1st June 2016 with temporary structures.
Notwithstanding the fact that Shashe border post is operating with temporary infrastructure, the border post is envisaged to decongest Beitbridge and Plumtree border posts as well as provide convenience for the local community staying on either side of the border.
Construction of permanent structures at the border post has not yet commenced and the Government is in the process of mobilising funds.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Madam Speaker, I move that Order of the Day, No. 1 be deferred to next week.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker,
there is no quorum in the House in terms of Standing Order Number 56
(1).
[Bells rung]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The opposition Member of
Parliament has called for a point of order on quorum and 58 Members only from the ruling party are only present. I think Parliament is a very important institution that must be respected by them because they were voted for by the electorate. It is very unfortunate that Members of the opposition have decided to sabotage Government business by calling for the absence of quorum and they all left this House. We all saw it and this is unfair to Government in terms of resources and everything. We really want to send this message to the opposition that it is very unfair and unproductive to the country. They come here and pretend as if they are representing the people, only to realise that they are also representing themselves as individuals. This is my presentation to the House and because of lack of quorum, the House is adjourned to tomorrow. Thank you.
A notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 Members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at One Minute to Five O’clock p.m
NOTE: The following Members were present when the House adjourned: Beremauro G.; Chapfika D.; Chibagu G., Chigudu M.;
Chikuni E, Chimwamurombe A.; Chingosho C. P.; Chitindi C.; Chitura
L.; Chivamba K.; Chiwetu J Z.; Damasane S A E.; Dhewa M W.; Dutiro P.; Gwanetsa K K.; Kadungure D A.; Kanhanga E W.; Kasukuwere S.;
Kaundikiza M.; Khumalo M.; Kwaramba G.; Mabuwa C.; Madanha M.;
Mahiya M.; Makoni R R.; Mandipaka O.; Mangami D.; Marumahoko
R.; Matiza B J.; Matuke L.; Mavima P.; Mawere V M.; Mguni O.;
Mhlanga J N.; Mkandla M.; Mlambo W B J.; Moyo F.; Mpofu M M.;
Muchenje F.; Mudyiwa M.; Mukwangwariwa F G.; Musanhi K S.;
Ncube A.; Ncube H, Ndhlovu A.; Ndoro L F.; Nduna D.; Nkatazo M M.; Nkomo Mail.; Nleya L.; Paradza K.; Savanhu T.; Shamu W K.; Shava J.; Shongedza E.; Tsomondo C.; Uta K and Zhou P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 21st June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
INVITATION TO A CATHOLIC SERVICE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House
that there will be a Catholic Service tomorrow 22nd June, 2016 at 1200 hours in the Senate Chamber. All Members are invited and non-catholic members are welcome.
CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP ON SDGs
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I also have to inform the
House that there will be a Capacity Building Workshop for the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), all Chairpersons of Portfolio and Thematic Committees and Party Whips from the 23rd to 26th June 2016 at Amber Hotel, Mutare. The buses will leave Parliament at 1300 hours on Thursday.
HON. NDUNA: Mine is a point of order.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
HON. NDUNA: I rise on a point of privilege Madam Speaker. I need this House to note that there is one of our members of staff that passed on, Cleopatra Jani. In the same manner Madam Speaker, that we recognise that one of our Members of Parliament would have passed on, I ask, with your indulgence, that we also give notice to the passing on of Madam Cleopatra Jani. She was a secretary to Mr. Samu who is also one of the managers of Parliament.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: While the Hon. Member has
brought this into the House, I think that was going to be taken care of but since he has brought it into the House, can all Members stand up to observe a minute of silence?
All Members stood and observed a moment of silence.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: Madam Speaker, I move that Order of the Day Number One, be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. KWARAMBA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
The Minister of Local Government, Public Works and National
Housing (Hon. Kasukuwere) having moved that tomorrow, Wednesday 22nd June, the provisions of Standing Orders Number 32, 5 and 139 regarding the reporting period of the Parliamentary Legal Committee and the Stages of Bills, respectively be suspended in respect of the Local Government Amendment Bill (H. B. 1, 2016).
HON. CHAMISA: I am sorry Madam Speaker. Just a point of clarification before the Clerk completes the reading of the second motion. I am not so sure what the Minister is intending to do considering – [Hon. Kasukuwere having stood up to go out of the House]
– Minister you may favour the House by sitting down to listen – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon. Member, you are taking my duty. Hon. Minister, can you please take your seat?
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I will never take your duties ever again. Thank you so much. Hon. Minister, I see that you have just placed a notice that you intend to.....
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Would you please address the
Chair.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have seen that the Minister has already put the notice to say that he is going to move for the standing down of certain Standing Orders, meaning they are going to be suspended, especially in the context of a Bill where outreach programmes are being undertaken. Is this not a slap in the face to parliamentary processes that are supposed to be in the Constitution because I do not think the notice is supposed to come at this juncture when people are still contributing to the input because it would be a smack of arrogance of the highest order, Madam Speaker, for the Speaker to be abused in this fashion, to say the Minister comes and he wants us to suspend certain standing rules before we have exhausted processes of Parliament? Are we all supposed to exhaust processes of
Parliament? This notice, I think, is misbegotten and misconceived –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Order Hon. Maridadi. I think the Minister was just suspending the stages of the presentation of a Bill, but once the Committees are through with their hearings and so forth, they will come and report to this House. There is no problem – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am waiting for you Hon. Members. All the stages will be taken care of.
There is no problem.
HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, I thought the Minister was going to withdraw.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. The
Honourable Minister was just giving a notice then tomorrow, he will move. If you have to object, it will be up to you tomorrow, not to object a notice – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
COMMITTEE STAGE
PAN-AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL, [H. B. 10, 2015]
Second Order read: Committee Stage: Pan-African Mineral
University of Science And Technology Bill, [H. B. 10, 2015].
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2;
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name on Clause 2, that on page 4, the definition of “Minister” to
be deleted and replaced by––
“Minister” means the Minister responsible for Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology Development or whoever is assigned the administration of this Act.”
On page 4, the definition of “Secretary” to be deleted and replaced
by––
“Secretary” means the Secretary for Higher and Tertiary Education,
Science and Technology Development.” Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 3 and 4 put and agreed to.
On Clause 5:
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Chair, I thank you for giving me this
opportunity. I need to make a call in that section for the initial programmes; at entry that it be put on record that we go out of the norm of doing business or of recruiting students in that university where the requirement is certificates, mature entry, diplomas and so on. If we continue to go that route, let us also add onto the recruitment for these programmes, the issue to do with artisanal miners, where they come into that university utilising experience. If it is put on record, it will make sure that it digresses from the normal mature entry but will also embody, encompasses and is embedded in terms of experience. Artisanal miners, if we leave them without being incorporated in this section; if they do not get entry in these initial programmes, utilising their experience, they would have been left out completely and left out in the fringes or in the margins of our economy. It will not complete the circle of continental integration.
We have imported this university programme or university ethos from the Pan African entity, where Ghana has decriminalised artisanal mining. There is no more chikorokoza in Ghana; there is now formalisation of artisanal mining.
So, continental integration, which is what Africa Union was founded for, can now be imported into this Pan African University through the notice or giving the right stage to the artisanal miners. The issue to do with SADC industrialisation strategy enunciated in 2015 can also be brought in by noting and making sure we notice the artisanal miners at the initial programmes by recruiting them, utilising their experience. We also in the same vein, in the beneficiation and value addition, formalise the informal sector by noticing and giving the right impetus and the right stage to artisanal miners.
In conclusion, when they go through those programmes, they need to be recognised with the same certificates and degrees that are going to be afforded the other people who have diplomas and certificates that also go through the same programmes.
HON. DR. GANDAWA: Thank you Mr. Chair. I note the contribution by the Hon. Member but what he is implying is covered by maturing entry. All our universities take note of maturing entry and that particular aspect is not covered in the Act but is covered by ordinances that run the institutions. I thank you Mr. Chair.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order Hon. Members at the back, you are complaining that I am not audible enough but you are making a lot of noise – [HON. CHIBAYA:
G40.] – Hon. Chibaya, I did not ask for any interpretation from you.
Clause 5, put and agreed to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
Clause 6 put and agreed to.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order, if you have nothing to
do in this Chamber, please may you walk out and do your business outside.
Clauses 7 to10 put and agreed to.
On Clause 11:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name on Clause 11 that:
On page 8, Clause 11 sub clause (1) to be deleted and substituted with the following-
“The Pro Vice-Chancellor shall be appointed by the Chancellor after consultation with the Minister and the Council, and shall hold office for such period as is provided in his or her contract of employment.”
On page 8, Clause sub clause (4) delete “Secretary, who shall, in consultation with the Minister” and substituted with “Minister, who shall in consultation with Chancellor and Council”.
Amendment to Clause 11 put and agreed to.
Clause 11, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name that on Clause 12; On page 9, clause 12 (e) to be deleted so that (f) becomes (d) and (d) becomes (e) and the same changes should apply to the subsequent sub-clauses.
Amendment to Clause 12 put and agreed to.
Clause 12, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 13:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name that on Clause 13 that on page 9, Clause 13 (b) deletion of
“the Information Technologist”.
Amendment to Clause 13 put and agreed to.
Clause 13, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 14 to15 put and agreed to.
On Clause 16:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name that on Clause 16 on page 11, Clause 16(2) and (3) to be deleted so that sub-clauses (4) becomes (2).
Amendment to Clause 16 put and agreed to.
Clause 16, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 17, to 21 put and agreed to.
On Clause 22:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. DR.
GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name that: On page 13, Clause 22 (i) by the insertion of the following - “with the approval of the Minister” after the word “Council.”
Amendment to Clause 22 put and agreed to.
Clause 22, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 23:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. DR.
GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment standing in my name on Clause 23 that: On page 13, Clause 23 (i) by the insertion of the following – “with the approval of the Minister” after the word
“Council.”
Amendment to Clause 23 put and agreed to.
Clause 23, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 24 to 27 put and agreed to.
On Clause 28:
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (DR.
GANDAWA): Mr. Chair, I move the amendment on Clause 28 that: On page 15, Clause 28 (i) (a) by the deletion of “retired judge” and insertion of “Pro Vice-Chancellor”.
Amendment to Clause 28 put and agreed to.
Clause 28, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 29 to 36 put and agreed to.
Schedules Section 2 and 33 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. DR.
GANDAWA): I move that Order of the Day, Number 3 be stood over until all the other Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (HON. DR.
GANDAWA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 22nd June, 2016.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE ON THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE BASIC EDUCATION ASSISTANCE
MODULE
HON. KWARAMBA: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House takes note of the First Report of the Portfolio
Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare on the
Administration of the Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM).
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
HON. KWARAMBA: INTRODUCTION
The Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM) is a Government social protection programme administered by the Ministry of Public
Service, Labour and Social Services in conjunction with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. It is a nationwide school fees assistance programme aimed at reducing the number of school drop outs due to economic hardships which result in parents and guardians failing to pay tuition fees, levies and examination fees. The programme is targeted at children who have never been to school, orphans and other vulnerable children. Since the establishment of the BEAM in 2002, 5 442 352 children have benefited from the programme. Pursuant to its oversight role and cognisant of the integral role played by the BEAM in poverty eradication, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare was compelled to conduct an inquiry into the administration of the programme.
OBJECTIVES
The objectives of the inquiry were as follows:
- to have insight into the BEAM social protection programme;
- to establish whether BEAM reaches the targeted beneficiaries;
- to assess whether Community Selection Committees (CSCs) are adhering to stipulated procedure;
- to ascertain challenges being faced by BEAM beneficiaries and administrators; and
- to appreciate how BEAM is improving the accessibility of education and achievements made to date.
METHODOLOGY
The Committee received oral evidence and written submissions, from the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. The
Committee conducted fact-finding visits to schools in Harare from 8 to
11 June, 2015and held meetings with school authorities, Community Selection Committees (CSCs), students benefitting under the BEAM programme and members of the community. The schools visited are:
- Shingirai Primary School in Mbare;
- Mbare High School in Mbare;
- Muguta Secondary School in Epworth;
- Zengeza 3 High School Chitungwiza; and
- Zengeza Main Primary School in Chitungwiza
COMMITTEE FINDINGS AND OBSERVATIONS
Administrative structures
The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare is the custodian of the BEAM programme in collaboration with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education as an implementing partner. At the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services the programme is run by a BEAM Project Management Unit (PMU) which falls under the Department of Child Welfare and Probation Services. The PMU receives and verifies school claims, captures information from schools, creates payment schedules and disburses funds to school accounts.
The major role of local authorities and headmasters of primary schools is to facilitate the annual setting up of CSCs and dissemination of information regarding BEAM. CSCs comprise of three members of the School Development Committee (SDC) and 6 to 8 community representatives who are elected by the respective community and should have considerable knowledge of the area. The CSC is mainly responsible for selecting beneficiaries of the BEAM programme at ward level from applications made by prospective students every year. Selection is usually done through evaluation of information on the application form, household visits and interviews against the yearly allocated amount for the respective school.
Eligibility Criteria
CSCs use the following criterion in selecting student applications for the
BEAM programme:
- Orphans with both parents deceased;
- Orphans with one parent deceased;
- Children in foster care under poor parents;
- Children who have never been to or have dropped out of school due to poverty (economic hardships);
- Children living in the streets;
- Children living with disability and are from poor households;
- Children living in child headed households;
- Children who have previous records of failure to pay fees and levies;
- Bread winner not gainfully employed; and
- Bread winner chronically ill.
Monitoring mechanisms
The Committee was informed that the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services conducts routine spot checks on 10% of the beneficiary schools every term to flag out possible system bottle necks and to check on compliance with the BEAM Operational Manual. The main objectives of scheduled monitoring visits include: establishing whether schools have credited received BEAM funds in line with the purpose of disbursement, accurate issuance of receipts to beneficiaries, ascertaining if the selection process was conducted in line with provided guidelines and to collect stakeholders’ views on the programme. The provincial and district officers from the two implementing Ministries are obliged to monitor implementation of the BEAM programme in schools to enforce policy compliance. Investigations are conducted on reported cases and school heads are advised to rectify anomalies accordingly. The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare officials reported to the Committee that schools overwhelmingly comply with the BEAM programme policy regulations. Headmasters were not turning away BEAM beneficiaries from schools for non-payment of fees as confirmed by both students and members of the community during the Committee's visits to schools. Furthermore, the Ministry officials informed the Committee that schools recorded programme funds and issued individual receipts although a significant proportion had challenges with accuracy of receipting.
However, the Committee learnt with concern that Ordinary Level BEAM beneficiaries at Muguta Secondary School, headed by Mr. Motsi, were required to pay examinations fees for all subjects, while the BEAM programme is supposed to cover examination fees for six subjects per student. At the time of the visit to the school, the Committee observed that only one student benefitting from the programme had paid examination fees for 9 subjects, and one student had not paid at all. The same trend was observed at Mbare High School and Zengeza 3 High School, where students on the BEAM programme and members of the community highlighted that they had been requested to pay school fees and Ordinary Level examination fees which were never refunded. Although there were promises of reimbursement, the Committee learnt that the headmaster of Zengeza 3 High School continued to defer actual repayment. In addition, the Committee was disturbed to learn that contrary to claims by headmasters that students on the BEAM programme were treated equally with their counterparts; Zengeza 3 High School BEAM beneficiaries' 2015 first term school reports had been withheld and only given to students a few days before the Committee’s visit on 10 June 2015.
Challenges Encountered in the Administration of the BEAM
Programme
The Committee was informed that the administration of the programme is impeded by several challenges including:
- BEAM funds are not adequate to meet the need for school fees assistance
The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services informed the Committee that the BEAM programme is currently funded by the Government and Department for International Development
(DFID), a funding partner. Partners such as the European Union and the Canadian International Development Agency have since withdrawn from funding the programme due to changes in organisational interests. The Committee was further informed that the 2015 National Budget allocation of $US 7 million towards the BEAM programme only constituted 22% of the ideal budget. Schools are allocated budgets to select the neediest children commensurate with the provided resources. Most schools raise levies each year against a static BEAM budget, thereby reducing the actual number of children benefitting from the programme. The 2012 BEAM Evaluation Report noted the need to increase BEAM funds by 172%.
All stakeholders appreciated the assistance rendered by the BEAM, in affording students from poor backgrounds opportunities to learn and improve their future prospects of leading better lives. However, parents noted that BEAM assistance ends at form four and does not cover Advanced Level and tertiary education. This ultimately results in disappointment for beneficiary students who pass Ordinary Level examinations as they can neither afford to advance their education nor find formal employment and most commonly end up becoming airtime vendors.
Late disbursement of funds from the Treasury
The Committee learnt that, as at the time of the visit, BEAM programme payments had last been remitted to schools during the second term of 2013 and the 2015 Ordinary Level examinations fees had not yet been paid. Headmasters bemoaned that delays of payments derailed school development projects. In addition, delays in the allocation of funds to schools and consequently, late selection of beneficiaries creates uncertainty as to whether the BEAM programme will pay fees or not. During visits to schools, the Committee was informed that the 2015 BEAM programme allocations to schools had not been announced and the selection process had not yet been undertaken by mid-year. This leads to anxiety and loss of confidence in the programme by schools, parents, guardians and beneficiary students who regularly attend classes with no cases of drop-outs recorded at the five schools visited by the Committee. Pledges of payments are made every year through the National Budget allocation for the BEAM programme and the expected deadline of remittance of funds to learning institutions is the last week of each school term. The Committee was informed that due to delays in disbursement of school allocations and selection of beneficiary students, parents or guardians whose children fail to qualify for the BEAM programme are notified late in the year and they would have accrued debts of fees and levies to schools.
Rejection of BEAM funds deposited into school bank accounts The Committee was informed that 78 cases of rejected BEAM deposits were recorded in 2013 due to changes of account numbers by schools without notifying the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and
Social Services, which delayed remittance of payments.
Secondary schools do not have separate Community Selection
Committees
The Committee learnt that secondary schools do not have CSCs and refer students in need of assistance to CSCs of feeder primary schools for application purposes. This is a cumbersome process for both students and school authorities. For instance, the headmaster of Mbare High School informed the Committee that the school has nine feeder primary schools. The Committee observed that beneficiaries of BEAM encounter difficulties in the transition from primary to secondary education level as they are required to pay cash upfront before enrollment. No measures have been put in place to ensure that students on the BEAM programme at primary school level will continually benefit from the programme till completion of secondary level education as application and selection is done yearly. The Committee also noted that it was difficult for secondary school students whose economic circumstances change for the worse to gain entry into the programme as they have to apply at the nearest primary school against odds, such as; communication barriers, stiff competition for the small allocation with other needy primary and secondary levels students, amongst others.
BEAM payments only cover school fees, levies and examination
fees for six subjects
The Committee was informed that while the BEAM programme
cater for school fees, levies and examination fees for six Ordinary Level subjects, most beneficiaries cannot afford complete school uniforms, stationery and other basic needs, such as food. Students at Muguta Secondary School informed the Committee that they were sometimes punished or turned away from school for improper dressing.
Furthermore, BEAM only pays examination fees for six subjects at Ordinary Level irrespective of the student's ability to tackle more subjects. This ultimately limits future academic and career options for students whose parents or guardians cannot raise examination fees for more subjects.
The Committee also learnt with concern that BEAM beneficiaries at Zengeza 3 High School were not allowed to select subjects of their choice when registering for examinations of the six Ordinary Level subjects catered for by the BEAM programme. The students informed the Committee that they were instructed to leave out Geography, Commerce and practical subjects. This has the potential of disadvantaging students who perform well in these subjects. In addition to that, beneficiaries at the same school are barred from fully participating in practical subjects, such as Food and Nutrition where they are only allowed to do the theoretical part of the subject and not the practical aspect, which is food preparation.
Lack of awareness of the BEAM programme
The Committee observed that members of the community and students generally lack understanding of the BEAM programme. Parents and students do not know where to lodge complaints, with the CSCs only visible during the selection process. A student at Zengeza 3 High School reported that he was once informed that he had qualified for assistance under the BEAM programme at the local primary school where he had submitted his application only to be told that was not the case by the headmaster at his school, but did not know where to seek clarification or redress.
In addition, some parents at Zengeza Main Primary School disclosed to the Committee that they did not even know the location of the district education offices. The Committee was informed that a lot of children of school going age are not attending school because they do not have birth certificates and communities are not aware that they are not a prerequisite for enrolment and application for the BEAM programme.
Annual turnover of CSC members
The BEAM Operational Manual stipulates that CSCs should be elected every year, a period which in the Committee's view is too short for operational efficiency. During visits to schools, the Committee in most cases held meetings with 2014 CSC members who could provide detailed information because 2015 CSCs had not yet received any induction. The Committee observed that the incoming 2015 CSC at Shingirai Primary school were not conversant with their duties and responsibilities as compared to their outgoing counterparts, indicative of no proper handover-takeover having taken place between the two
parties.
RECOMMENDATIONS
The Government should mobilise adequate resources to ensure that all children access basic education every year. BEAM funds should increase yearly rather than decrease. The BEAM programme should be extended to cover examinations fees for all subjects of the student's choice.
BEAM programme allocations per school should be announced at the beginning of each year to facilitate selection of applicants by CSCs and enable schools to plan effectively from January 2017.
Once a student becomes a beneficiary of the BEAM programme at primary school level, they should benefit consistently till completion of their secondary education level without having to reapply each year.
Establishment of separate CSCs for primary and secondary schools by June 2016, to facilitate easier processing of applications. The term of office of CSCs should be increased from 1 year to 2 years in order to improve efficiency. Headmasters should facilitate immediate induction of new CSCs members as soon as they are voted into office and adequate handover-takeover between incoming and out-going CSCs.
The Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should continuously conduct vigorous awareness campaigns to schools and communities on the BEAM programme and operational manual. In addition, effective communication systems to update communities and students on developments pertaining to the programme should be established.
There must be adequate monitoring over implementation of the
BEAM programme by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education at all times to ensure adherence to procedures and stern disciplinary measures should be taken against defaulters with effect from June 2016. The Government should urgently revive local industry and support the small and medium enterprises sector to create employment for ablebodied individuals, to enable them to provide for their children, including; payment of school fees.
CONCLUSION
Universal primary education was one of the eight Millennium
Development Goals (MDGs) under the 2000 Millennium Declaration now transformed into Sustainable Development Goals, to which Zimbabwe is a signatory. It is disheartening to note that 2015, the implementation deadline of the MDGs has come and gone, but we are still found lacking in the provision of basic education for our children. According to the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, the 2016 National Budget allocation of US$10 million towards the BEAM programme will only cater for 161 102 children out of an estimated 500 000 children in need of school fees assistance. This may result in a high rate of school drop-outs leading to reduction in human capital investment, early marriages and high juvenile delinquency. The BEAM programme is a positive initiative towards provision of basic education, but the Government can still do more by providing free basic State-funded education as stipulated by Section 75 of the Constitution and upholding other child rights in the Declaration of Rights and the Children's Act [Chapter 5:06].
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Let me begin by thanking Hon. Kwaramba for presenting the Report of the Committee on
Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, on the findings and observations of the Committee on the Basic Education Assistant Module.
Hon. Speaker, let me start by reminding the House on the groupings in terms of eligibility that the Selection Committees at community level target when they want to do the selection.
The following are the grouping - orphans with both parents deceased, orphans with one parent deceased, children in foster care under poor parents, children who have never been to, or have dropped out of school due to poverty or economic hardships, children living in the streets –destitutes, children living with disability and are from poor households, children living in child-headed households, children who have previous records of failing to pay school fees and levies, bread winner not gainfully employed and bread winner chronically ill. This is the deserving list of the candidates or beneficiaries that the Selection Committees at community level target.
Hon. Speaker, we are talking about this report and the findings of the Committee at a time when we know everything else is not working.
When you look at the list, you say do we have employment in this country; you find that many are not employed. Are there many industries operating? The industry is not operating at 100%. You ask do we have money and you will also find out that we do not have money. There are those parents who have been selling or working just to find food on the table for the children who are going to school on BEAM without actually getting what they are supposed to get in terms of feeding. Then you look at a child who has gone to school, who is supposed to have a uniform and food. So, the target group talks for itself Hon. Speaker.
I would actually want to advocate for the abolishing of the demand for uniforms, food and also the food provision at the school level where we have the feeding schemes targeting the BEAM beneficiaries. Already there is no food at home, the father is not working or the mother is late, maybe the child is coming from a child-headed household where there is no food. So, it is a crisis at home, hence the child should not be punished twice by going to school without food and also being turned away because they do not have a uniform and also fainting at a school assembly because the child would have not taken anything since morning. So, I am proposing that we also look at the avenue of saying; we should not be seeing children on BEAM being returned home because they are not in uniform since it is not by their own choice.
Then, the rest of the report Hon. Speaker, you will find out that it points at Government; what it should do in terms of improving the
BEAM’s operations and resource mobilisation. I would also call upon the Government to target more partners who can also put their money in terms of getting BEAM on its feet because the more the parents are falling victim of unemployment and the more the parents are falling victims of HIV/AIDS, then the more children we have that deserve BEAM.
In actual fact, Hon. Speaker, it tends out to be that all those deserving children who are supposed to benefit from the BEAM scheme are not benefiting. If it is a selection at a particular school, when the
Committee went out to the communities, you would find that it is not every deserving child who is being selected to be on BEAM because the resources are not enough. So, the Government should mobilise more resources, engage more partners even turn on to private, public partnership and also turn to the communities to mobilise more resources in terms of getting all the children back to school.
There was once a time when Zimbabwe in the early 80’s was one of the best countries in terms of having enrollment at the school but at the moment those who deserve to be in schools are no longer in schools because of several other reason and the target groups are also falling on this particular list.
I would also want to thank the Committee for what it has done, for doing as much as they could in terms of getting information but the ball is in the Ministry’s court, through Government to mobilise more resources, improve the functions and the role of those who go to inspect whether the Community Selection Committees are operational and doing their job. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I am just going to touch on a few key points. I would like to applaud the Chair of the Committee for presenting the report on BEAM. I also want to congratulate the
Committee for coming up with a holistic, well rounded report on
BEAM.
Mr. Speaker, she touched on the issues of universal primary education for all which also was in the Millennium Development Goals now turned SDG’s which is also enunciated in our Constitution, Section 75. Mr. Speaker, we know as we stand today, like the former speaker has said, that our economy is not performing as well as it used to. We see that primary education is not being well financed by this BEAM initiative as it used to be financed some time ago. However, I need to go and digress, to speak and think outside the box in that we have schools that are in the rural areas, we also have schools that are in the urban areas. The schools that are in the urban areas are endowed with land around them in the local authority areas. Those schools should be given land and indulge in education with production, so that out of the output of that land and agricultural processes, they should be able to use that money to pay fees for those children that cannot pay fees. This will be a mitigatory factor in the absence of the BEAM initiative because a day lost Mr. Speaker, is not a day gained. We lose a day in a child’s life, we will never get it back again. So, this brings me to the point that says, universal primary education is not complete if children are not going to go to school because there is no input from Government in the form of
BEAM.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the second point that I want to touch on is to do with a moratorium where parents that have not been able to pay fees for their children, who are not under BEAM - as long as they are still in school, schools should give them a grace period to pay their fees in the future when the economy starts improving because as long as our children are out of school, we are destroying their future, hence we are destroying the future of this nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I touched on the schools in the urban areas. The schools in the rural areas are in places which are embedded with natural resources - in particular, our God-given finite resource of mineral wealth. We need to give each school in those areas Mr. Speaker Sir, mines, if the mines are there and we employ equals of Agritex officers in agriculture. Those that can teach the people or the parents of children in those schools mining ventures and mineral extraction so that they utilise the mineral wealth of those areas to pay fees for the children that are not going to school.
This is the new norm. If we continue to ignore the abstract way of doing business, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot as a nation. The issue where schools are supposed to give moratorium or to give a grace period to the parents who are unable to pay their fees for those children who are not under BEAM, for those children that cannot afford their fees at the moment, should also inculcate that same culture in the headmasters. It has been said since time immemorial that they should not chase away children from school, lest we destroy the future of the nation. However, the solution that I have got for those headmasters that chase away children from school whilst Government is paying the teachers, should be sentenced to death by hanging. This is the new norm. If we do not indulge in that, we are hanging the future of the nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the only tradable asset that we have at the moment, as has been alluded to, by the previous speaker, including the Minister of Finance, is export oriented commodity and what are we able to export as a nation in this economic hard times that we are going through is Gold. So when I speak of schools and institutions being given mines, I speak from the bottom or the oracles of my heart to say, this is the only thing that we have got. Let us optimally utilise it – distribute it in the same manner that Kaddafi distributed the oil of Libya to the citizens of that country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I make a clarion call that we think outside the box because we do not have the money that we are utilising as a nation. We do not print US dollars but we print them using our God-given mineral wealth, which is Gold. Let us give those mines to those schools. Let us optimally utilise those resources to pay for the fees. Albeit the future of our children, let us pay for their future using our God-given natural resources. Whilst we speak of BEAM which is a non-event as we speak because Government does not have its contributing part, let us look at what it is that we have. To use that we have to get what we want.
As I conclude, the issue of limiting subjects for children that are gifted, we are also limiting our scientific potential. We are limiting our future rocket scientists. We have, as we speak, because of our modern day technology, the future of tomorrow imbedded in our children. Whether they are street children or they are children of normal households, they are knowledgeable in that we have not exploited their intelligence. So, by limiting the number of subjects that they are indulged in because of our limited resources, we are limiting our future capacity of indulging in technological advancement.
The last thing that I want to say is that the children that have been spoken about by the former speaker are children that have both parents late, children that have one surviving parent, those that have no parent who is working and so forth. However, I want to speak about the children that are termed aliens or children of those that are termed aliens, who have no birth certificates, who have no IDs, who have not been given the right to form part of our national interest, both economically and population wise. We should immediately rubbish the issue to do with alienism and all those children should be given birth certificates because they have been born and bred here. If you find a two or three year old child speaking in Shona, Nambya, Tonga, English and in
Ndebele and is here in Zimbabwe. Which other country do they know? We should immediately conduct a forensic and scientific research to determine why these children are being disenfranchised by being called aliens so that we bring them into the mainstream universal education system which is ‘free primary education for all’ in Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate and I say, let us remove the tag of alienism in our children for the good of the future of our nation. I thank you.
*HON. BUNJIRA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this report. I want to thank Hon.
Kwaramba for bringing this report to this House. People in the rural areas are encountering many challenges in registering for the BEAM programme. What I have observed in some of the schools that I visited is that there is a bad relationship between the headmaster and parents. Parents are accusing headmasters of registering their relatives under
BEAM. There are also instances of children who are removed from the BEAM programme when they had previously had their school fees paid for by BEAM. Some children are removed from the BEAM programme when they are in their final year and preparing for examinations. This is done without any explanation to the parents.
Most of the children placed under the BEAM programme are relatives or those known to the headmaster and this is a major concern to the parents. Some headmasters are complaining that the Government is not releasing enough funds that are necessary to cater for all the children who are under BEAM and this results in the little funds available being not enough to cater for all the children under BEAM.
The Government should provide free education for all children. This is because even those who are not under BEAM cannot afford the school fees and many children are being sent home due to non-payment of fees. However, those who are mainly affected are those children who are under the BEAM programme because they are looked down upon in their communities despite it being not their fault that they cannot afford to pay school fees. I therefore plead with the Government to provide free education for all children. I thank you,
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you for the report that has been tabled by Hon. Kwaramba and her Committee as regards to BEAM. It shows that there are still some children that are still not enjoying the right to go to school. We have observed that children in the communal lands, the majority of them are not attending school because there is no one who is paying for their school fees.
One of the children that we had the opportunity to meet is a product of rape. The mother was infected with HIV and she died. There was no one able to provide for this child. The problem is that there were too many requirements that the child failed to provide so that she could be entitled for BEAM. The child walks about 20km to school for the reason that the nearest schools were closed because of lack of teachers. This is an abuse to the children because throughout their lives, they are experiencing hardships due to the corruption that is associated with
BEAM and distances are another factor.
Seven hundred school children for one teacher is not a good ratio. The child will remain poor because she cannot do practical subjects because of lack of funds. Without practical lessons, the child cannot be in a position to sustain themselves. As an orphan, they cannot access tertiary education at the university.
BEAM offers just six subjects for a pupil and these subjects are minus practical subjects. As a result, they are unable to self sustain due to lack of education in practical subjects. This is a sorry state of affairs; the child is disadvantaged because the mother was initially raped. The parents were lost during period when the pupil was a child. We urge those that are in the selection process to be empathetic towards the issue of the children.
Members of BEAM have fantastic hairstyles. They change them weekly and are living quite well. They are living large whilst some children are failing to go to school. The Government should ensure that this is put right and should come up with other means to raise the funding for BEAM because the same Government is saying that it does not have sufficient funds for that. A 2% levy should go towards education.
A lot of people are poverty stricken. A lot of children in the communal lands are not going to school. They are illiterate because no one pays for their school fees. While they access this education, there is high pupil/teacher ratio of 1:700. It is a situation I can be proverbial with that ‘from the frying pan into the fire’. The percentage from the Sovereign Wealth Fund should also be used for supporting children who are needy. The majority that are being entitled to assistance through the BEAM programme are not correct candidates for that. The majority were corruptly given the chance to access this. Deserving children are left out because of strenuous vetting rules. The rules should be made loosened.
The Ministry of Public Service should be more practical oriented, going out there to find out what the headmaster and the parents are doing. The Ministers need to go to Gutu impromptu to find out the correct state of affairs. Some Government employees mislead Government Ministers and as a result the Ministers end up acting on wrong information. They should go there announced just like we do as
Committees. I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
*HON. TARUSENGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Firstly, I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Committee, Hon. Kwaramba and the Seconder, Hon. Mpariwa. The majority of the schools that we visited show that this is the picture of what is happening in the entire parts of Zimbabwe. First and foremost, I would want to mention the issue of the Community Selection Committee. This Committee should be responsible for selecting candidates that should access BEAM. Our observation is that this is not what the Committee is doing; there are nine members of the Committee including the headmaster who should be doing this work. We noted that the headmaster and the SDC handpick one another and members do not come from the community contrary to the belief that members should come from the community. This gives the opportunity for corruption to thrive and as a result, beneficiaries are corruptly selected.
Secondly, our observation was that the school fees for school children that should be entitled to the BEAM scheme or project takes a long time to be paid. This lengthy delay in the payment or the disbursement of the fees, we see people like Members of Parliament will start to pay school fees for these needy children contrary to what is enshrined in Sections 27 and 75 of our Constitution.
It is the duty of the Government to pay or ensure that there is funding for BEAM, but eventually it ends up being a burden on an individual. There is also mention of free basic education but our observation is that the children are not actually learning but are spending a lot of time traveling – they are learning poverty. Children that are on BEAM are not having it rosy. This scheme covers up to university but we are not seeing children that are enjoying this basic education going as far as university level.
What we are observing is that the literacy rate in Africa is for example, Tunisia is at the first and Zimbabwe second, because of the problems that are bedeviling the project. As a result of our Government abdicating its authority on responsibility, it would mean that the programme is now in jeopardy [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
*HON. TARUSENGA: The observation as regards the payment
of school fees to children that are entitled to the BEAM project, the law stipulates that their fees be disbursed by Government through BEAM. The headmasters force parents to pay for examination fees for these needy children. How can a child of a needy parent be able to pay for examination fees when they cannot afford to pay school fees? The problem is that once a child has attained Grade 7 and now want to proceed to Form 1 using the same programme, parents are forced to pay regardless of whether the child has scored 7 points or more.
The headmasters insist on payment of fees upfront even to a child who is on the BEAM scheme. These are issues that our Government should closely look into and redress so that the project can get back on trail and work well. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I will be very short. Let me begin by congratulating the Committee that made an inquiry into a very important aspect that looks at our young children. On the same note, I wish to congratulate the Government for coming up with the Basic Education Assistance Module in an effort to satisfy what is contained in our Constitution on Section 75 for the right of education to every Zimbabwean child.
Hon. Speaker, the Committee led by Hon. Kwaramba could have done us justice, if they could have invited the Committee on Education,
Sports, Arts and Culture so that they conduct an inquiry together. If they had done this, the inquiry in my view was going to be quite holistic and thorough. I am not impressed Hon. Speaker that the Committee, but I know it is not of their own making, it is a problem to do with resources that are availed to them. If resources were being availed by Parliament, it was going to be more ideal and representative for the Committee to have gone out to the rural areas to make a thorough inquiry into the administration of BEAM. We notice here that they only covered those schools in urban areas and justice was not done in the rural areas. So, I think in future if resources are made available to Committees, we must be able to cover a wide margin and that is my observation Hon. Speaker.
I would want also to make a comment on the observation by Hon. Nduna. I think I do not buy-in his contribution that those headmasters that chase away students from schools should receive the death penalty. That is too harsh for a country to be driven into believing in such a kind of penalties. I think it is important that as parents also, for schools to develop, we must be able to part with little sums of money. We need to pay for our children so that our schools, be they in rural areas or urban centres, can develop. I know we are handicapped because the economy is not performing well, but at least we must make efforts as parents to pay for our children. That having been said, Mr. Speaker I wish to rest my case. I thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: I would also want to add my voice to this very important debate on the issue of BEAM. After hearing the report, I have learnt that the Government normally says it does not have money, and my debate is going to be very different from the other debates that you were hearing, because I beg to differ with most of the issues that have been raised. I actually think Government has money but it is an issue of priorities.
Why do I say so? Today, being a Tuesday marks the 556th day our Vice President is still staying at the hotel and that expense is being funded by the taxpayer. That money can be used to fund the BEAM programme. So, it is an issue of priorities Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] Going into the Constitution, Section 27 actually states that the Government must put in place measures to ensure that it provides free basic education to all, that is, primary, secondary and tertiary education. Also read in conjunction with Section 75 (2) of the Constitution.
My argument is Zimbabwe is too rich to be poor. We cannot tell our citizens that we cannot afford to pay BEAM for the simple reason that we are one of the highest diamond producing countries in the world. We have one of the largest deposits of methane gas. We have very huge deposits of underground resources Mr. Speaker. So, it is an issue that if you say the Government is broke, it is common knowledge that being broke in terms of finances goes hand in hand with being broke in terms of ideology.
Our Government should actually consult the people before making policies. For example, we have this recently controversial policy of the introduction of bond notes. The Government actually announced that we have a policy that we are going to introduce bond notes. After that announcement, that is when we saw the Government through the RBZ
Governor consulting people, after the announcement. The consultation process should be the first process, and then we have the announcement of the process after the consultation.
We also have the issue of the priorities that I am talking about. Recently, the whole Cabinet went on a retreat and on that retreat, some of the Ministers were actually drinking whisky which costs $250. We are talking of BEAM, fees for one student costs about $10, that amount would actually pay for 25 students. So, it is an issue of priorities that we should address. The Government must start walking the talk and not just talk, and when the lights are switched off, they practice differently. This morning Mr. Speaker, a parent came to me and he told me that he cannot afford to pay the bill and the local school has engaged debt collectors, and are in the process of attaching his property.
So, when we address these issues on BEAM, we should also address on the macro-economic causes of poverty in this nation. We have de-industrilisation that we have experienced as a nation and most of these parents are no longer employed because of the policies that this Government has been pushing – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – instead …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOK): Let
us not make noise in the House Hon. Members.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for protecting me from
Hon. Mupfumi.
Mr. Speaker, it took the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education only 72 hours to come up with a National Pledge which was not consulted, which is not even in the Constitution. The Constitution on Section 27 is very clear on the provision of free basic education, but the Minister who actually knows about that section is doing nothing about it while concentrating on these that I would call vulgar priorities Mr.
Speaker.
Lastly Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the issue of the brain drain that we are experiencing in this nation. We have educated people who are going out of the country because of issues to do with our industry which is not performing well and this has affected us negatively. Mr.
Speaker, I would like to define what I feel is a sanction that has been referred to by some Hon. Members here. A sanction is a measure that is put in place by anyone, that can be your Government, brother or sister; a measure that is put in place to inhibit you from doing anything. If your Government puts in place a policy that inhibits you from paying school fees for your children, that is a sanction –[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] So, thank you Mr. Speaker
+HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to add my voice on the motion that was brought by my Chairperson. I want to thank the Chairperson, Hon. Kwaramba for bringing such an important motion in the National Assembly. I also want to thank the seconder of the motion Hon. Mpariwa. Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of BEAM is one important issue especially in rural areas. We realise that so many children would really want to further their education but they are failing to pay their fees.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to congratulate the Government of
Zimbabwe for it is really trying its best despite the economic hardships by trying to assist the few children it has assisted through BEAM. Through the BEAM which was created because of the bad economic and also HIV conditions that have left many children as orphans. You realise all the orphans are being taken care of by the grandmothers who are no longer able to work and feed those orphaned children.
We had a tour in most of the schools in Harare and we realised that there are so many things that are being done especially on the issue of corruption that was highlighted by the speakers who spoke before me. In most of the schools, the money that would have been allocated for BEAM is being used by students who are not supposed to be benefitting from that programme.
The other thing that I want to touch on is that from the schools that we toured. There are other students that are not allowed to do practical subjects. I think we should try to encourage them to do psycho motors. You realise that they will have something to do even after they finish their school. This will help them later on when they are done with their education.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I agree with Hon. Mandipaka who said if only this Committee had a joint tour with the Committee on Primary and Secondary Education, we would get better results when we combine the work of these two Committees. You realise that a student who benefits from BEAM is coming from primary and BEAM is being paid by the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. If only the students who are under BEAM could also be under BEAM even when they are doing their Higher and Tertiary Education, for if parents are failing to pay primary school fees, what more about secondary, higher and tertiary fees?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I once visited a certain school and what I discovered is that when BEAM funds were allocated to that school, the Headmaster from that school used the money for something else, and parents were asked to top up the fees for the students who are benefitting from BEAM. We realise the economic hardships that our country is going through. With these few words, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. *HON. CHIVAMBA: As a member of the Committee that is chaired by Hon. Kwaramba, and on this motion seconded by Hon. Mpariwa, we thank the Committee for the investigations that they carried as regards the BEAM scheme. I am not going to dwell much on the nitty gritties of the BEAM, but it came about as a result of the Government having identified that it is useful to come up with such a programme by the Government of President Mugabe, that children should go to school and in the manner that is laid out as has been read by our Chairperson of the Committee.
There are some children that do not have parents and some that are orphaned as a result of HIV/AIDS. There are others that are poor with nothing at all. If you look at the issue of the Selection Committee, there is a problem. It needs to be rectified by the Headmaster, or the headmaster is also part of the problem which needs to be rectified. It would appear as if the issue of BEAM helps those that are poor and orphaned so that they are enabled to continue with their education because they are gifted. They are being disadvantaged because of either poverty or being orphaned which is a circumstance beyond their control.
The children are not going to benefit because of those that are leading the scheme or the project. These leaders should be taught the objectives of BEAM. The Committee should be in office for more than a year because a year in the office, the Committee will not have learned its ropes. They require at least two years to have been versatile in terms of the reference and the objectives. There should be proper hand over and take over for these Committees which should be observed. In the communal lands where we come from, there are children that are poor. If they complete Grade 7, talented as they are, it is unfortunate that they will not proceed to secondary education because of the Selection
Committee which is a barrier.
One becomes married before proceeding to Form 1, despite having produced good Grade 7 results. They would have been assisted because of the parents that are deceased. Why would there be another need to vet or to subject the child to a vetting process for secondary education because the same circumstances still prevail for that child? These candidates that are on BEAM should proceed to ‘A’ Level. So because of the issue of STEM, that is coming about, those talented students should be entitled to that as education. These less fortunate children that will have gone through BEAM should also be beneficiaries of STEM as a result of them having accessed education up to A Level and from there, they will proceed to the university.
If you look at our education, one has said that we are rated among the highest in Africa. Our children are going to universities. A first degree is no longer as powerful as it used to be, but a Masters is much more recognised. It means we should encourage BEAM so that it has sufficient funding by Government. The parent Ministry that disburses this funding owes money dating back to 2013. Let us urge the
Government and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development to release funding for each year for the BEAM to be successful yearly so that children can enjoy their rights annually. This is enshrined in the Constitution, as has been said by previous speakers. I have already indicated that most of the points have already been said. I thank you.
*HON. MUDYIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I also want to thank Hon. Kwaramba and her Committee because of the report that they have tabled before us. It was an eye opener in terms of the state of affairs as it pertains to the country Zimbabwe. I would like to say I was touched by the issue of a child that will have been accessing BEAM at primary level. Upon qualifying to go to secondary education, they need to be vetted or that they no longer qualify. That is a hurdle that should be removed up until they reach the type or level of education that they are desirous of attaining. We should not put unnecessary bottlenecks in the education system for such disadvantaged children. Failure to remove this bottleneck will lead us into having a lot of street children and a lot of drop outs from school. Children that will have been accepted on the
BEAM should go as far as the sky. This will enable to assist that child.
A lot of children failed to write their examinations last year for failure to have paid their examinations fees. ZIMSEC is a local board.
Children that are beneficiaries of the BEAM, those that fail to raise the examinations fees should be allowed to write their examinations and the Government should be able to pay for their examination fees. We should not add insult to injury by allowing them to go to school initially and then bar them from writing the examinations. A lot of children in our constituencies are doing quite well and they are passing with flying colours up to ‘O’ level. Thereafter, that they cannot proceed because there is no BEAM. So it is a head ache to us as to how we can proceed so that these children can proceed with their education. It is my considered view that this BEAM scheme should be given to these children until they get to the university. The Government must be able to finance this project because every child is entitled to free education. It is every child’s right to go to school. They should grow the cake as far as the BEAM fund is concerned so that it will be able to end these problems for children that should benefit from BEAM. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you very much for allowing me to also add my voice to this motion. I want to also thank the Hon. Chairperson of Public Service Labour and Social Services, for introducing this motion. I know that a lot has been said and I will try by all means not to repeat what has been said; save to say Mr. Speaker Sir, the introduction of BEAM was one of the social protection measures that were introduced by Government to try and alleviate and also equip our poor and vulnerable members of our society so that they might have access to some of the basic services that exist in our society.
The aim of introducing BEAM was to ensure that even those that can afford to take their children to schools do that and then the poor and vulnerable should also be able to access quality education within the education system of the country. So, it is one of those various measures that Government introduced, like the one on health where Government is supposed to pay for health expenditure for the poor. It is also one of the measures, just like the cash transfers that are meant to ensure that the poor also have the capacity to make effective demand within the economy.
However, my view is that while all those social protection measures are important; right now what we halve realised in the last two to three years is that the Government of Zimbabwe is no longer able to meet its obligations in terms of social protection measures. I think in the last two years, we have been getting money from partners towards BEAM whilst the Government of Zimbabwe has failed to meet its obligation part of the BEAM and that is the reality that is on the ground. Now, what does it mean? What it means is that we have created a debt burden on the infrastructure of education in this country because what we are saying is that the Hon. Ministers are very good at giving instructions and saying everyone and anyone on BEAM should not be chased away from school for non-payment of the school fees. What does that mean? In means that burden on that school is accruing for a number of years when nothing is going to that school. What BEAM has now become is an issue of quantity in terms of education rather than quality because we are impoverishing the very schools that we want our children to get quality education.
BEAM, is supposed to pay money to the schools so that schools can improve the quality of education as well as the quantity. BEAM is supposed to assist the schools to get money to improve in terms of their infrastructure and delivery of education but because for the last two to four years, the Government of Zimbabwe has not been able to meet that obligation Mr. Speaker Sir, the level of indebtness in terms of this BEAM programme in schools is insurmountable. I doubt that there will be a time when Government will be able to clear that debt that they have. As I speak, the whole of 2015, Government disbursed nothing to schools and 2016 now, we are getting into the second half of 2016, Government has not been able to disburse anything to schools. It is not surprising when Government is now beginning to act like NRZ and other companies that are ailing which cannot meet its wage obligations obligations. Obviously, you do not expect that Government to meet other social protection.
So, what is my view? I know that there are some people here who think that …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, can you address
the Chair?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Chair, there are some Hon.
Members that are obsessed with sanctions but the issue that we are talking about right now is the issue of children of the ordinary man and woman, the orphans and the vulnerable who are supposed to get equal opportunities like anybody else in this society. The very Government that we are talking about, most of the Ministers have their children getting their education outside the country – either in South Africa,
Singapore, Malaysia and everywhere else.
We are saying even as the orphans cannot afford to go to Malaysia to obtain their education, as they cannot afford to go to universities in South Africa to obtain their education, why can Government not do what is right that is, affording the basic education within our own infrastructure. Right now as we speak, BEAM has just become a programme on paper. It is not there and in reality it is dead. We can blame the headmasters, the committees that are responsible for selecting but what matters most is the disbursement of the resources that are required to ensure that education that is provided as a service is paid for. That way we are able to maintain the quantity and quality of our education. Unless we do that, what we are simply doing is to depreciate the value of our education as we say because now everyone, I think even our children as MPs now are qualifying on BEAM because we are also as poor as everyone else in this country. Therefore, it means that it means that schools are now enrolling close to 90% of BEAM students but that BEAM is not being paid a single cent. So, what is the problem? It is the non-performance of the economy. The crisis that we are seeing in BEAM is merely a symptom of the problems that we have as a country. The riots also and demonstrations that we saw in Beitbridge, are nothing but merely a symptom again of the real problem that we have in this country.
Mr. Speaker Sir, BEAM is not performing and I am sure the Chairperson of the Committee was bemoaning that there is nothing that is going to BEAM. Every time we go to Heroes Acre and insult the Western countries – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] - we go to Heroes Acre and tell them that we do not care about their aid.
HON. MANDIPAKA: On a point of order! I want to believe the Hon. Member is a Zimbabwean national and I want to believe he understands the Constitution very well that we should give due respect to those people who perished because they were fighting for our liberation. So, if he blames the Heroes Acre, we take exception. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hapana point of order.]-
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker, my apologies if I sounded – [HON. MANDIPAKA: Get away.]- As if I sounded demeaning the veterans of the liberation struggle. What I am trying to point out Mr. Speaker is that DFID is contributing towards BEAM; it is a form of aid to this country. Facts on the ground show that the last money that was paid towards BEAM came from DFID and it is a British Institution –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mandipaka!
Can you respect the Chair Hon. Mandipaka?
HON. P.D SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for your protection
but the point that I was trying to highlight is that the last amount of money that was paid towards BEAM came from foreign aid. The Zimbabwean Government last paid towards BEAM two to three years ago – [HON. MEMBER: How did you know that?] – I know it. Since
2013,
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member can you address
the chair?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Government of Zimbabwe last paid money towards BEAM in 2013, from 2014 up to date, the Zimbabwean Government has not paid anything towards BEAM. Therefore, it means right now, our Social Safety Net, literally speaking, is in the hands of foreigners. It is not in the hands of the Zimbabwean Government because it does not have the capacity to take care of the Social Safety Net of this country.
Therefore, Mr. Speaker, it is my view that this BEAM programme, it is one of those programmes that we are selling nothing to the public.
We always tell the public that we are going to do this for you but in reality we are not doing anything for them. I think Mr. Speaker, it is as good as the Zimbabwean Government coming out clearly and telling the people of Zimbabwe that we cannot afford BEAM and therefore let each and every person see for themselves what they are going to do about the education of their children. Let us clearly pronounce as a Government that we have abandoned the poor, we have abandoned the vulnerable and the orphans. It does not make sense for the Government to pretend that it is paying for the vulnerable and the poor when it is simply giving a burden to the schools and how do you expect the schools to manage when you are not putting money into that programme. So, it is my view Mr. Speaker, that the Zimbabwean Government should come out clearly and say we have failed in terms of the BEAM programme and allow people to know that there is no more BEAM. BEAM is dead. I thank you.
*HON. GWANETSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. First and
foremost, I thank the mover of the motion Hon. Kwaramba and all those that have spoken on the issue of BEAM. A lot has been said, I am going to mention very few things. If I understand English very well, the acronym BEAM stands for Basic Education Assistance Module, but what we are referring to as basic education should assist those less privileged such as the vulnerable, the orphans and those that are poor. In our society, we are always going to have orphans and poverty.
It was my considered view that the Ministry responsible for the programme should look at changing this scheme from being basic to even secondary and tertiary education. That will enable the underprivileged, the orphans and the vulnerable groups to attain higher educational qualifications. Being orphan does not mean that you do not have the potential to scale the arising education. There are some that are very brilliant. They can be identified and become a very useful resource for this country.
My plea is that let us remove the word basic and come up with a better term that will be able to carry these children to tertiary education, through to university until the completion of their education. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MAVENYENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 22nd June, 2016.
On the motion of HON. RUNGANI, seconded by HON. MAVENYENGWA, the House adjourned at Twenty Four Minutes to
Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Friday, 17th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at Half Past Nine O’clock a.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. SAMUKANGE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the fact that there is no quorum.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, next time when there is such an important item like the one that was adjourned because of no quorum, I think it beholds all of us to canvas for support. Otherwise you are defeating the cause of the importance of that subject matter. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Order, let me finish what I am saying. It beholds each one of us to canvas attendance so that you complete the business. If we had completed business yesterday, some of you would have travelled early this morning and so on. You cannot defeat your plans and not debate at the same time. It is double loss of time. So, we will ask that the bells be rung for seven minutes while we wait.
[Bells rung]
An objection having been taken that there being present fewer than (70) members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. SPEAKER adjourned the
House without any question put at Three Minutes to Ten o’clock a.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Bunjira; Hon. Chibagu; Hon. Chibaya; Hon. Chigudu; Hon. Chinanzvavana; Hon. Chipato; Hon. Chitembwe; Hon. Chitindi;
Hon. Chiwetu; Hon. Dutiro; Hon. Gezi; Hon. Jaboon; Hon. Kachepa;
Hon. Kadungure; Hon. Karoro; Hon. Kaundikiza; Hon. M. Khumalo; T.
Khumalo; Hon. Kwaramba; Hon. Majaya; Hon. Makari; Hon. Makonya; Hon. Mandipaka; Hon. Mangami; Hon. Mangwende; Hon. Mapiki; Hon. Maridadi; Hon. Marumahoko; Hon. Mashonganyika; Hon.
Matambanadzo; Hon. Matienga; Hon. Matsunga; Hon. R. N. S. Mawere; Hon. N. Mguni; Hon. Mlilo; Hon. Mpala; Hon. R. Mpofu; Hon. Mudambo; Hon. Mudau; Hon. Mudzuri; Hon. Mudyiwa; Hon. Mufunga;
Hon. Mukwangwariwa; Hon. Mukwena; Hon. Munengami; Hon.
Munochinzwa; Hon. Murai; Hon. Musundire; Hon. Mutomba; Hon.
Muzondiwa; Hon. M. S. Ndlovu; Hon. N. Ndlovu; Hon. Nduna; Hon.
Pemhenayi; Hon. Porusingazi; Hon. Rungani; Hon. Samukange; Hon.
Shava; Hon. Shongedza; Hon. D. S. Sibanda; Hon. P. D. Sibanda; Hon. K. Sibanda; Hon. Sithole; Hon. Simbanegavi; Hon. Toffa; Hon. B.
Tshuma; Hon. Vutete and Hon. Wadyajena.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Friday, 17th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at Half Past Nine O’clock a.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. SAMUKANGE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the fact that there is no quorum.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, next time when there is such an important item like the one that was adjourned because of no quorum, I think it beholds all of us to canvas for support. Otherwise you are defeating the cause of the importance of that subject matter. –[HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
Order, let me finish what I am saying. It beholds each one of us to canvas attendance so that you complete the business. If we had completed business yesterday, some of you would have travelled early this morning and so on. You cannot defeat your plans and not debate at the same time. It is double loss of time. So, we will ask that the bells be rung for seven minutes while we wait.
[Bells rung]
An objection having been taken that there being present fewer than (70) members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. SPEAKER adjourned the
House without any question put at Three Minutes to Ten o’clock a.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the House adjourned: Hon. Bunjira; Hon. Chibagu; Hon. Chibaya; Hon. Chigudu; Hon. Chinanzvavana; Hon. Chipato; Hon. Chitembwe; Hon. Chitindi;
Hon. Chiwetu; Hon. Dutiro; Hon. Gezi; Hon. Jaboon; Hon. Kachepa;
Hon. Kadungure; Hon. Karoro; Hon. Kaundikiza; Hon. M. Khumalo; T.
Khumalo; Hon. Kwaramba; Hon. Majaya; Hon. Makari; Hon. Makonya; Hon. Mandipaka; Hon. Mangami; Hon. Mangwende; Hon. Mapiki; Hon. Maridadi; Hon. Marumahoko; Hon. Mashonganyika; Hon.
Matambanadzo; Hon. Matienga; Hon. Matsunga; Hon. R. N. S. Mawere; Hon. N. Mguni; Hon. Mlilo; Hon. Mpala; Hon. R. Mpofu; Hon. Mudambo; Hon. Mudau; Hon. Mudzuri; Hon. Mudyiwa; Hon. Mufunga;
Hon. Mukwangwariwa; Hon. Mukwena; Hon. Munengami; Hon.
Munochinzwa; Hon. Murai; Hon. Musundire; Hon. Mutomba; Hon.
Muzondiwa; Hon. M. S. Ndlovu; Hon. N. Ndlovu; Hon. Nduna; Hon.
Pemhenayi; Hon. Porusingazi; Hon. Rungani; Hon. Samukange; Hon.
Shava; Hon. Shongedza; Hon. D. S. Sibanda; Hon. P. D. Sibanda; Hon. K. Sibanda; Hon. Sithole; Hon. Simbanegavi; Hon. Toffa; Hon. B.
Tshuma; Hon. Vutete and Hon. Wadyajena.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 16th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ESTABLISHMENT OF THE ZIMBABWE
PARLIAMENTARY CONSERVATION CAUCUS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House
that Parliament of Zimbabwe would like to establish a multi-part conservation caucus to champion the realisation of the ideals of sustainable development conservation as well as ecological preservation and management. This is in line with our zeal to meaningfully take part in various international programmes that promote sustainable management of our heritage and natural resources base. Therefore, all
Members of Parliament who wish to join the Zimbabwe Parliamentary Conservation Caucus should approach Hon. Wonder Mashange, who together with the secretariat of Parliament is coordinating this initiative.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON A
DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE: ZIMA’S
DECISION TO DEMAND CASH FROM PATIENTS
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker. In terms of Standing Order Number 59 (1), I seek leave to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of public importance relating to the announcement by the Zimbabwe Medical Association (ZIMA); that starting from 1st July, 2016 their members will not be accepting patients on medical aid insurance.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I consider the motion to be the one contemplated by Standing Order No. 59 (1) and accordingly call upon
Hon. Members who support the motion to rise in their places.
All Hon. Members rose in their places.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think you can take
your seats. As no fewer than 25 Hon. Members have supported the contemplated motion, I declare the leave of the House to discuss the motion to have been duly granted. The matter will be stood over until a Quarter-past Five o’clock p.m. or sooner on
adjournment.
MATTER OF PRIVILEGE
CRITERIA FOR SETTING UP PUBLIC HEARINGS
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I rise on a matter
of privilege. This is in connection with public hearings that the
Portfolio Committee on Local Government is currently engaged in. I want to refer you to Section 18 of our Constitution which provides for issues about fair regional representation. It provides that the State must provide the fair representation of all Zimbabwean regions and all institutions and agencies of
Government at every level.
Madam Speaker, you must note that ‘must,’ is preemptory and therefore does not give anyone an opportunity to decide on whether they may or may not. If you go to the section that provides for issues of equality, it also provides on issues of nonediscrimination. It is unfortunate that as the Portfolio Committee is going to do public hearings, you will find that all the provinces have been covered. In fact, I understand from the advertisement that was in the newspaper that provinces like Harare and
Mashonaland East have two and three public hearings respectively.
It is of concern Madam Speaker that if you look at the geographical area of both Matebeleland South and Matebeleland North provinces, you would have expected more hearings in those areas than in other provinces. This is because, if you go and conduct a hearing in Gwanda, you would still need to have another in Insiza North for example. My understanding is from reading in the newspaper, so I want to hear from you Madam Speaker whether there has been a move to allow the Portfolio Committee to go and conduct public hearings in Matebeleland South and Matebeleland North. However, I am raising it as an issue of principle, that if we are setting up public hearings, we should have a criterion to do so. The fact is that anybody would have thought that it was alright to have public hearings on such an important subject and not include two provinces that are in Matebeleland with the knowledge of issues surrounding marginalisation as provided in the Constitution. We should make sure that those provinces which have previously been marginalised are not marginalised any further. I raise this Madam Speaker, firstly to get a ruling from you on whether it is indeed true that we are going to have hearings conducted in Matebeleland South and North. Secondly, I would like to perhaps ask that we have to have a criterion on public hearings so that this issue is not repeated again.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon.
Member. I hear you and note what you are saying. The issue is being addressed. Public hearings on the Local Government Bill will be conducted in Matebeleland North and South on Tuesday and Wednesday next week – [Hear, hear.] –
Hon. Chinotimba having stood up to raise a point of order
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon.
Chinotimba, what is the point of order.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
want to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, why are
you making such noise. Hon. Members you need to be quiet when someone is giving a point of order. Hon. Chibaya please may you respect what is happening here.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I want to support what Hon.
Misihairabwi was talking about. This issue disturbs me because it is now…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, have
you stood up so that you can support a point of order?
HON. CHINOTIMBA: No, I…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have given a ruling, it
is over and you cannot debate on that one.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: What I wanted to say may be
supporting or not supporting. However, I am disturbed by a situation where when public hearings are being conducted in other provinces – we conducted public hearings in provinces such as Matebeleland North and South and Bulawayo but no one spoke on the Portfolio Committee on Defence, no one indicated that it was one-sided. So, what I wanted to say is that why is this one special…
Hon. Holder having stood up to give a point of order
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No point of order whilst
someone is giving a point of order Hon. Member. Hon.
Chinotimba, you heard what Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga did? If there is such a complaint, you can bring in your point of order on another day like what she did not to stand up to complain. If you want to complain, you can bring it to the House. Do not be disgruntled, calm down and take your seat – [Laughter.] –
*HON. HOLDER: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Hon.
Chinotimba is wearing something that is protruding from his back and we do not know what it is – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon .Member, it maybe
his bag – [Laughter.] – Hon. Members have their bags –
[Laughter.] – as Hon. Chinotimba shows off his bag.
SECOND READING
PAN AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY BILL (H.B.10, 2015)
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second
Reading of the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and
Technology Bill (H.B. 10, 2015).
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. J. N. MOYO): Madam
Speaker, I rise to thank the Hon. Members for their contributions. I am most grateful for the interest that the Hon. Members have shown in the Bill as well as their support. In particular, I am indebted to the report of the Portfolio Committee of Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development. I want to place on record the excellent work that Hon. Mataruse’s
Committee does for which we as a Ministry are very grateful for.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Members are aware that already, there are two Pan-African Universities in the country which are non State Institutions. One is Africa University which continues to distinguish itself as a centre of excellence in a number of fields.
The other is the Women’s university in Africa, which holds the promise of breaking gender barriers as part of its teaching, research and community service. With the establishment of the Pan African Minerals University of Science and Technology, Zimbabwe will now have a third Pan African University, which is a State institution thus bringing to three, the number of Pan African Universities in the country. It is important to note that PAMUST will be a postgraduate institution. I am aware that out Portfolio Committee had an issue with this but it is an important and strategic consideration because the post graduate status of the university will facilitate and promote high level research and linkages with the mining industry in Zimbabwe and in Africa. For it to do that well, it does need to be a postgraduate institution.
As a Ministry working with the Attorney General’s office, we are studying the very useful and quite substantive recommendations of the Portfolio Committee to identify which of those recommendations require amendments to the Bill.
Now, turning to the contributions of Members, I wish to thank Hon. Nduna for highlighting the importance of artisanal mining, not just in Zimbabwe but across the continent. It is indeed legitimate to expect PAMUST to include artisanal mining in its postgraduate teaching and research. Hon. Nduna also expressed an interest in the location of PAMUST. He seems to want it to be in
Chegutu. While I understand his sentiment, the truth is that PAMUST already has a home here in Harare. Homes and locations of new universities are identified and decided on as part of the work of the Universities’ Foundation Committee.
Hon. Muderedzwa made some useful contributions for which
we are grateful. In particular, I would like to thank him for highlighting the important fact that PAMUST will be a key strategic institution to foster both regional and continental integration as part of the African Union’s Agenda 2063. I now turn to the contribution by Hon Mudarikwa. I am most grateful for his support of the Bill, not only in the national interest but also in the Pan African interest, which are both above the partisan interest.
In particular, I appreciate Hon. Mudarikwa’s point that PAMUST should investigate and modernize mining systems based on indigenous knowledge. This is a well taken contribution and all efforts shall be made to incorporate that thrust in PAMUST research agenda.
I am also grateful to Hon Mutsvangwa. I thank him for reminding us that the real story about Great Zimbabwe which extended over eight centuries is about mining and in particular, gold mining. As he indicated, people used to come from India,
Egypt and the Middle East among other places in search of gold in Zimbabwe. This is indeed how the Great Zimbabwe civilization was built. With PAMUST, people will come from across the continent and elsewhere, this time not to buy gold but to learn how to mine, process and market gold as well as creating new Pan African opportunities for industrializing and developing Zimbabwe and Africa.
I would also like to thank Hon. Gabbuza, who like Hon. Nduna expressed concern about the location of PAMUST, which he sees as an expression of what he said was the bambazonke mentality of Harare. While his concern is noted, I am sure he also knows that there is no province in Zimbabwe that does not have a State University as we speak. Since PAMUST is a Pan African University, its location in Harare is justified not least on grounds of the convenience of access. Otherwise, Hon Gabbuza’s point that research is field based and not desktop based is indeed correct. Locating it in Harare will not prevent PAMUST from doing field research in various mining places or regions in Zimbabwe and indeed elsewhere in the continent.
Madam Speaker, I am also very grateful to Hon. Mapiki. We thank him for his contribution, especially his spirited call for PAMUST to be located in Shamva. That call is an instructive case of excellent representation of his constituency, which I have no doubt will be appreciated in Shamva. Also appreciated is his highlighting of the key role of technology in mining and mining research. We agree with him that this will be an important task for PAMUST and that is why technology is part of the university’s name. I am also very indebted to Hon. Holder. We thank him very much for his support. I appreciate that Hon. Holder spoke as a true miner who clearly knows what he was talking about. I thank him for making the point quite eloquently about the advantages of locating PAMUST in Harare, to enable easy networking while also providing access to various mining fields. In the same way as he indicated, Hon. Members are able to go to all corners of the country from Harare on their committee business without hindrance. ‘If they can did it, PAMUST can also did it.’
Let me also thank Hon. Mukwena for supporting the Bill in general and in particular for supporting its location in Harare. Hon. Mukwena is right that there is nobody in or out of the country who would have difficulties coming to Harare because Harare is a true Pan African location. Madam Speaker, I am most grateful - beyond description to Hon. Maridadi for his highly charged contribution which, in my view reflected his interest in Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development in the country. That is a good and exemplary disposition and we welcome it because it helps to keep us not only on our feet but also our heads.
Hon. Maridadi, while making his very useful contribution, also made some false assertions that must be corrected in the interest of intellectual objectivity, a cherished and jealous regarded principle in Higher and Tertiary Education, Science and Technology sector. This is the principle which is cherished, the principle of objectivity, also cherished in this Hon. House. So, I want to make some corrections Madam Speaker for the record. Hon. Maridadi said that Zimbabwe currently has 20 universities, that is not correct, Zimbabwe currently has 16 universities, ten State and 6 non State.
Secondly, Hon. Maridadi said Zimbabwe has three science and technology universities and he named Harare Institute of
Technology, Bindura University of Science and Education and
National University of Science and Technology. He left out Chinhoyi University of Technology and of course the University of Zimbabwe. Also, as Hon. Members are aware, there are three upcoming universities in Manicaland, Mashonaland East and
Matebeleland South whose Bills have been approved by this Hon. House, which will also have biases towards sciences and technology to add three more.
Thirdly, Hon. Maridadi asserted that the Faculty of Law at the University of Zimbabwe is not admitting students for the next three years. This is false and I consider this falsehood particularly wicked and harmful to the public that listens to live broadcasts, or follows reports of debates in this Hon. House and believe those broadcasts and reports. Madam Speaker, the Faculty of Law at the University of Zimbabwe now has two programmes; 1, the conventional or full-time programme; 2, parallel or part-time programme. The conventional programme enrolls students as usual in the regular manner with annual intakes. There has been no change to that programme whatsoever, with regard to its admission of students. It has not stopped admitting students as alleged or implied by Hon. Maridadi.
The claim therefore, that the Faculty of Law is not admitting students for the next three years is not correct, which is why - for obvious reasons or implications I find it to a wicked falsehood. As is widely know, there is also now a new parallel part time programme that the Faculty of Law started in October, 2015. In the main, the programme caters for mature entry students but does also include straight entry from ‘A’ level. The Faculty of Law has explained and did so upfront that the intake for this programme will be when the current part-time group which started in October, 2015 is about to complete its second year, in order not to disrupt the conventional full-time which has annual intakes.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Maridadi also used the opportunity of his very useful contribution to make some rather gratuitous comments about myself and other Ministers who are students in the part-time programme – [HON. MUDZURI: Obvious, vangakufailisa iwe uri Minister.] – Hon. Maridadi wondered about my admission to the programme and made insinuations to the effect that because I am the responsible Minister for the sector, not for the university, the university is an autonomous institution run in accordance with the University of Zimbabwe Act which was made by this Hon. House. He suggested that because I am a Minister, this might cause difficulties for the Faculty of Law to mark my work and he even made an astonishing suggestion that they might not be able to fail me.
Madam Speaker, I just want to make some very important clarifications in light of Hon. Maridadi’s contributions which are on record. Firstly, regarding my case, I decided to enroll for a law degree at the University of Zimbabwe in honour of my late daughter who wanted to do law after her first degree at the University of Cape Town. I made the decision to do so on the evening we received the tragic news when it was brought to my attention that a parallel programme had been started, and in fact was in operation but was still enrolling. That is the only reason I did take this decision, it was not because I want to become a lawyer or because I am not happy with my current qualifications that I am very, very proud of. But there is a special meaning and a special connection with my late daughter.
Hon. Maridadi – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Zvakwana, chiregai mwana]…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Zwizwai,
what is wrong with you?
HON. PROF. J. MOYO: Hon. Maridadi’s suggestion that
the Faculty of Law can somehow be affected by the status of its students is only useful as a hyperbolic statement. Otherwise, it is not different from some ridiculous statements we have heard that for example a judge or a Prosecutor General cannot face justice in Zimbabwe before Zimbabwean courts and that they would rather prefer to appear before foreign courts.
Madam Speaker, for the record, the Faculty of Law at the University of Zimbabwe has very high standards and these standards are recognised around the world. If anyone has some doubt about the standards that the University of Zimbabwe’s
Faculty of Law has, they should ask a former Member of
Parliament, Mr. Job Sikhala.
Madam Speaker, there are four other public officials who are current part time or full time students at the Faculty of Law. These are:
Name | Political Position | Political
Organisation |
Status | Fulltime / Part-Time |
Moyo Jonathan N. | MP and
Government Minister |
ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Kasukuwere S. | MP and
Government Minister |
ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Mandiwanzira
S. |
MP and
Government Minister |
ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Zhuwao P. | MP and
Government Minister |
ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Misihairabwi P. | MP | MDC-N | Current | Part-Time |
Ndebele A. | MP | MDC-N | Current | Full-Time |
Munengami F | MP | MDC-T | Current | Part-Time |
Sikhala J. | Official | MDC-T | Current | Full-Time |
Chivasa Maddock | Official | NCA | Current | Part-Time |
Dziva T. | MP | ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Madiro M. | Official | ZANU PF | Current | Part-Time |
Advocate J.
Mudenda |
Speaker of Parliament | ZANU PF | Graduate Student | Full-Time |
Madam Speaker, I have to mention this in his absence but it is a well known fact that Hon. Advocate Chamisa is a distinguished graduate of the Faculty of Law and did so on a full time basis, while he was a full time Cabinet Minister.
If Hon. Maridadi wants to join the distinguished class of students at the Faculty of Law and believes he qualifies for admission must apply.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I
think it is well and good that the Minister is presenting his response to our debates in Parliament. However, I do not think that it is in order that the Minister can start casting aspersions at my person. I do not think that is in line with the decorum of this House.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the complaint?
HON. MARIDADI: The complaint – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members!
I want to hear what the Hon. Member is saying.
HON. MARIDADI: The complaint is that the Minister can
respond to my debate in response to his presentation to the Bill. I debated in response to the Bill but the Minister may not cast aspersions at my person, like what he is saying that “if he thinks he qualifies.” I take great exception. If the Minister wants to engage in a debate, I will be happy to engage in a debate after he is done with his report.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, as far as
I understand what happens when Hon. Members debate on a Bill and so forth, it is the duty of the Minister to stand up and respond to the debate which was done. So, I do not see if there is anything wrong.
HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, absolutely there is nothing wrong but my problem – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
This discussion will help you in future. Can you please listen and hear where it is going.
HON. MARIDADI: The Minister is allowed to give a response to my debate like what he has done, but what I am taking great exception to is the Minister becoming personal. If the Minister gets personal, it means he wants to engage in a personal debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! I hear you Hon. Member.
HON. MARIDADI: I think the Minister must withdraw the
statement, “if he believes he qualifies.”
HON. PROF. J. MOYO: Thank you very much Madam
Speaker. It will be irresponsible of me to withdraw a factual position that you can only be a student at the Faculty of Law if you qualify. That is, if you are interested, you must also qualify.
Madam Speaker, on the basis of the record of the debate, which is in the Hansard, the Hon. Member cast aspersions as to whether we can pass. He said if you fail, the Faculty of Law will not register that. I did not take it personally at all. I took it as his contribution and I am similarly responding to his contribution.
Otherwise Madam Speaker, we take note of the fact that Hon.
Maridadi’s main argument is that he opposes the Bill and believes that the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and
Technology (PAMUST) must not be registered here in Zimbabwe. We note his opinion but strongly disagree with him on that. We thank the rest of the Hon. Members who agree with us.
Madam Speaker, I would like to also thank Hon. Chamisa for his contribution to the Bill. His contribution was distinctively nationalist and it is pleasing that we have as a country developed to this level where nationalism is a common bond among us as
Honourable Members. It is indeed the case as pointed out by
Honourable Chamisa that PAMUST represents a bright future for Zimbabwe and the continent and that the future of the two is intertwined – inextricably so.
We share Honourable Chamisa’s view that through
PAMUST, Zimbabwe will be the hub of mining technology. In
Honourable Chamisa’s wise words, “when people think of education and mining on anything, let them think Zimbabwe”.
These are the wise words of Honourable Chamisa.
I would like also to thank Honourable Machingura for the support on the Bill and active participation in the Portfolio
Committee along with other colleagues. We take to heart
Honourable Machingura’s view that in the end, it does not matter where in Zimbabwe PAMUST will be located because what should make all of us happy is that we are going to have a strategic Pan African University in Zimbabwe.
I would like to thank Honourable Mandipaka for his support of the Bill. As he pointed out, it is indeed the case that Zimbabwe is endowed with a rich mineral dowry, and this means that our nation stands to benefit from the intellectual and technological resources that will come through PAMUST. That really is the fundamental strategic point for this august House to appreciate and we thank Honourable Mandipaka for making the point as robustly as he did.
I would like to thank Honourable Majome for placing on record that Zimbabwe is without doubt well known for putting Pan Africanism in the thick of our policies because we take Pan Africanism seriously. We appreciate her welcoming the Bill and her support of the very positive and substantive report of the
Portfolio Committee on Higher Education, Science and
Technology Development.
Madam Speaker, I note with appreciation Honourable
Majome’s concerns on corporate governance issues in higher education institution. As a Ministry, we are currently reviewing various issues on the mandates and governance structures of these institutions to deal with issues such as those raised by Honourable Majome.
Lastly, regarding her sentiments on having His Excellency the President as Chancellor, I wondered what rule, maxim principle or presumption you used to inform your sentiment. I wish to draw the august House to the following principles behind the arrangement: -
- Universities in Zimbabwe are established in one of two ways:
- Either via an enabling Act of Parliament for State Universities as is the case with the Bill before the
House, or
- Via a Charter from non State Universities.
- In both cases, the Chancellor of the university comes from the responsible authority and represents that authority. Five of our six non-State universities are church related institutions and they have Chancellors who represent or who are selected by those churches. One is set up through a trust and its Chancellor represents that trust.
- In the case of State Universities, His Excellency the President is the Chancellor by virtue of the fact that he is the Head of State. State universities are established by Acts of Parliament administered by a Minister, appointed by the President to whom the Minister reports.
- It is important to note that Chancellors – whether it is State or non-State universities are ex officio and non executive. The executive functions lie with Vice Chancellors (VCs). They are the ones who do the work of the universities. That is why we will never have a situation where one person is Vice Chancellor of more than one university which was the basic issue of concern raised by Honourable Majome.
- The everyday policy function of State and non-State universities is not done by the Chancellor but by a Council headed by a Chairperson of Council and each university has one Chairperson of Council. You will not have a situation where one person is Chairperson of Council of more than one university. Again, that effectively addresses the issue raised by Honourable Majome.
- This system that we have for the Head of State being the
Chancellor of the State Universities is not unique to
Zimbabwe, a good example is the University of California (public university) system with 10 campuses or universities run by 26 reagents and out of these, 18 of them are appointed by the Governor of California. More interestingly, unlike in our situation, the Governor of California sits in the Board of Reagents as does his deputy and the Speaker of the State Assembly. We do not have anything like that here. It would be like having you Madam Speaker, sitting in the Council of the University of Zimbabwe and that would raise eyebrows.
- The fact that PAMUST is a continental university established through NEPAD process, makes it particularly necessary that His Excellency the President and Head of State be the Chancellor. This will ensure that the university gets the support from Government that it needs and it will also get the high level representation that it needs.
We, as Honourable Members pointed in the most appreciated contributions, must be proud of the fact that out of the various countries that competed for this honour, it fell on our country to be recognised and this recognition is an expression of our critically acclaimed high education standards and the fact that we are King
Solomon’s country, endowed with gold everywhere. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: Tuesday, 21st June, 2016.
HON. CHAMISA: Madam Speaker, just a point of appreciation…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is that now, I just announced for the Second Order of the Day.
HON. CHAMISA: I just want to appreciate you Madam, we are allowed to appreciate the Hon. Speaker. I just want to thank you for this opportunity as you superintend over the chairing of our House and just to say, the attitude by the Ministry and the Minister is what we really appreciate. There is an effort to respond to Hon. Members contributions.
We may not be agreeing entirely with the Minister but just the fact that they take their time to come and respond is something that we really appreciate. We hope that all other Ministers are going to take Parliament seriously because we do not represent ourselves. We carry the collective mandate of the full extent of our citizenry and for that reason, we just want to appreciate and also the Deputy Minister for listening to our contributions throughout the debate. We really appreciate and hope that there is going to be osmosis of that goodness for other Ministers who are still in the region of lower concentration to appreciate that there is merit in respecting Parliament. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] –
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF HIGHER AND TERTIARY
EDUCATION SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT (HON. PROF. J. MOYO): With the leave of the House Madam Speaker, I move that Order of the Day Number Two, be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. RUNGANI: Madam Speaker, I move that Order of
the
Day Number Three, be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the
Day have been disposed of.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. RUNGANI: Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. T. KHUMALO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL
DEVELOPMENT ON THE OPERATIONS OF AIR
ZIMBABWE
HON. NDUNA: I move the motion standing in my name
that this
House takes note of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development on the operations of Air
Zimbabwe.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: I second.
HON. NDUNA: 1.0 Introduction
1.1 The Portfolio Committee on Transport and
Infrastructure Development resolved to conduct an inquiry into the operations of Air Zimbabwe. The Committee was concerned with the perennial operational challenges faced by the airline and resolved to investigate the matter with a view to propose possible solutions to mitigate the challenges. Your Committee wanted to know whether the airline was still a viable entity in view of the fact that air transport should be efficient, safe, dynamic, reliable and profitable. This can only be made possible provided the airline is run on a professional basis and with qualified, experienced and competent personnel.
2.0 Methodology
2.1 Your Committee received oral evidence from the Board of Directors and Management of Air Zimbabwe, the then Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development Hon. Dr. O. Mpofu and the Permanent Secretary, Mr. M. Munodawafa in the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
3.0 Committee’s Findings
3.1 Your Committee established that Air Zimbabwe
Holdings was facing operational challenges arising from a number of factors ranging from high operational costs, low load factors and an accumulation of a cripplingly huge financial debt. The Hon. Minister, Board and Management of Air Zimbabwe acknowledged that the airline had been running losses over the years. They further informed your Committee that there was need to urgently develop and implement a robust strategic plan that would be geared towards ending operational challenges. They submitted that the strategic plan should seek to transform Air Zimbabwe to a vibrant entity. Sustainable profitability could only be possible through a three phased approach. Each of the three phases required capital injection, either from the shareholder or through identifying sources of finance that included Private Public Partnership (PPP).
3.2 Your Committee was informed that the Phase 1 approach was an immediate plan which was meant to have been accomplished by December 2014. I am sorry Mr. Speaker that I have to read this report today, but some of these challenges bedeviling the entity could have been resolved has this report been presented to you timeously by December 2014. This Phase was meant to improve the status quo, thereby generating revenue enhancement and implementing cost reduction strategies. The airline had targeted December 2014 as the date by which it would have joined the Internet Booking Engine (IBE) and IATA Clearing
House. Your Committee also learnt that Air Zimbabwe needed US$2.6 million to rejoin IATA Clearing House. This would enable the airline to serve large numbers of interconnecting passengers to other destinations which the airline had been unable to service by then. The airline also expected that once it had rejoined IATA Clearing House, there would be a possibility of a potential increase in its revenue by approximately up to US$105 million. Your Committee sought to know from the Board and Management of Air Zimbabwe the progress made in the implementation of phase 1 since their last appearance before the Committee on 16 March 2015. However, your Committee was disturbed to learn that the $2.6 million which had been expected was still not yet secured although some initiatives had been made towards establishing the IBE. The Phase II approach also involves the acquisition of new aircraft and the settlement of salary arrears and allowances amounting to US$35.8 million. Your Committee noted with concern that Air Zimbabwe was already failing right from the onset to implement what they had proposed as a strategic plan to mitigate the financial challenges. The question as to whether Air Zimbabwe was a viable entity kept coming. The Hon. Minister, Board and Management of Air Zimbabwe felt that the Airline has a future provided resources were made available or sourced from elsewhere.
3.3 Phase II which was a short term strategy to be implemented in 2015 focused on growing the revenue streams through domestic and regional network expansion. Your
Committee was informed that Air Zimbabwe had introduced Harare-Kariba-Victoria Falls route as a way of expanding its domestic routes. Phase II would also see the introduction of Buffalo Range-Masvingo route which would use the MA60 aircraft. Lilongwe and Lusaka route would also be introduced before the end of December 2014. Your Committee noted that the deadline set for the commissioning of the two routes was December 2014. However, nothing had materialized at the time of compiling this report. Your Committee was disturbed by the apparent lack of seriousness and competency on the part of the Board and Management in addressing financial and operational challenges at Air Zimbabwe. They were failing to implement what they set out to do. It is your Committee’s considered view that Air
Zimbabwe Board and Management needs a complete overhaul. Personnel with requisite skills should be appointed to critical positions to solve the challenges at Air Zimbabwe.
3.4 The Phase III approach was expected to be a medium to a long term strategy. This was to be implemented from year 2016 to year 2018 and would focus on the resuscitation of international routes such as the London, Beijing, Dar es Salaam, Dubai, Cape
Town, DRC and West Africa using the two A320s airbuses, two B767-200ER, two B737-200. In the long run the strategy was expected to see the airline invest in new aircraft like the B737-800 for regional flights and the B787-900 Dreamliner as the ultimate replacement for the B767-200ER. Air Zimbabwe Management emphasized the need to pay off the outstanding US$29.8 million external debt and to avoid the risk of having their aircraft impounded in other countries. The airline needed US$5.304 million for repairs to the eight aircraft at its disposal. Surprisingly, the new A320 airbus on lease already required US$1.5 million in maintenance costs. Your Committee wonders how much revenue has been generated by this aircraft to warrant that much for its repairs. According to the strategic plan document, Air Zimbabwe needed a total funding of US$259.942 million for the implementation of the three phases.
3.5 The strategic plan document submitted by the Board and discussed with your Committee on 16 March 2015 had not been signed by the then Hon. Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Dr O. Mpofu. Your Committee enquired from the Board of Directors and the Management why they had submitted a document that had not been approved by their Minister. In response, the witnesses said that a copy was inadvertently sent to the Hon. Minister without the requisite page for his signature. Your Committee also raised the same observation when the Hon. Minister appeared to give evidence on 18 May 2015. The Hon. Minister Dr O. Mpofu indicated that he had been taken by surprise when the Board presented such a document without space for his signature. Your Committee does not condone such flippant attitude towards work by Air Zimbabwe personnel who are supposed to turn around an ailing company like Air Zimbabwe. To allay its fears on the calibre of personnel running Air Zimbabwe affairs, your Committee requested for curriculum vitaes of Board Members and Management to establish their capabilities to run the Airline.
3.6 The situation obtaining at Air Zimbabwe was attributed to deteriorating operational performance which started around 2004, owing to the use of obsolete equipment, a situation which gave competitive advantage to its competitors, low tourist arrivals, erratic schedule operations, impounding of the B767 in London and temporary suspension of operations between 2011 and 2012.
As at 18 May 2015, Air Zimbabwe operated 5 aircrafts, namely, 2 B767, 1 B737, 1MA60 and 1 A320 Airbus. In evidence before your Committee, the witnesses submitted that the fleet was inadequate for the airline’s operational viability. The airline was making losses, where it was generating an estimated revenue of US$2.65 million a month against an operational expenditure of
US$5.94 million. As at 31 January 2015, Air Zimbabwe’s debt was said to be US$282 million for both foreign and local creditors.
3.7 Your Committee was informed that the airline was overstaffed and its wage bill was US$1.2 million per month. Staff compliment stood at 760 and 234 were earmarked for retrenchment but the airline could not raise funds for their retrenchment package. The Hon. Minister, in his submission before the Committee, indicated that in order for the airline to be viable, it needed at least 3 small jets, 2 B737-500s and 2 B787 which would cost US$770 million. The ageing fleet was said to be expensive to maintain as it used more fuel and was said to be operating noisy engines, a situation which did not attract passengers. A320 airbuses were less costly on fuel and were more attractive and efficient. Air
Zimbabwe’s aircraft were less appealing compared to those of other airlines and this had a negative impact on passenger choice.
3.8 Another critical factor that needed to be considered according to the Hon. Minister was the settlement of US$298 million debt which was increasing on daily basis. This implied that the shareholder had to inject a minimum of US$1.068 billion, provided that the shareholder could afford to do that given the prevailing demands on the fiscus. The Hon. Minister also indicated that another alternative solution would be to look for a strategic technical partner for the airline. He informed your Committee that Cabinet had tasked the Ministry to come up with a list of possible partners for tabling before Cabinet so that further guidance could be provided.
3.9 Your Committee was informed that Air Zimbabwe had no audited accounts despite having requested for unaudited financial statements from 2009 to 2014. Your Committee is of the opinion that some of the financial challenges at Air Zimbabwe could be attributed to lack of financial accountability, probity and transparency. It was disturbing to note that even the unaudited accounts did not make sense as most of the previous year’s figures had a lot of irregularities. Your Committee engaged the assistance of financial experts to help in analyzing Air Zimbabwe’s unaudited financial statements. It was noted that trade receivables and prepayment balances remained similar for three consecutive years. Based on the financial statements from 2009 to 2014, the company’s revenue was seen to be on a downward trajectory. The performance of the airline is appalling in terms of its economic viability. The strategic plan for the company was expected to grow in the local market from 2014 to 2018 but by 16 March 2015, very little had been done towards implementing the set goals.
3.10 Your Committee commended Air Zimbabwe’s
strengths such as its high level technical skills, sound engineering base and excellent safety record. However, the Committee is cognizant of its following weaknesses; debt overhang, weak balance sheet, ageing equipment, thin route network, vacant key positions leading to weak management and absence from IATA Clearing House which easily override the strengths.
3.11 Your Committee was informed that the current fleet had outlived its lifespan and was costly to maintain. Air Zimbabwe was facing a lot of competition from other airlines that operated reliable and modern aircraft. Regional competition further posed significant threats to the operations of Air Zimbabwe and this was also worsened by the emergence of low cost airlines like FastJet and Fly Africa.
3.12 Further threats came from the fact that the company was operating in a harsh economic environment. Air Zimbabwe had no audited financial reports and your Committee was left with no option but to analyze the unaudited financial statements. Financial statements of Air Zimbabwe reflect that should creditors demand payment, the company may not be able to settle its
liabilities.
4.0 Committee’s Observations
4.1 The Committee observed that Air Zimbabwe is technically insolvent and may not be a going concern due to operational losses that have eaten into the company’s assets and increased the debt with each day’s operation.
4.2 Lack of the company’s audited financial reports and internal controls are some of the reasons of the current financial situation. Your Committee noted the need for an immediate audit of books. Without a proper audit and accounting systems, fraudulent and nefarious activities can easily be perpetrated without any detection at all.
4.3 For the airline to be competitive, there is need for cost rationalization and qualified personnel.
4.4 Your Committee also observed that Air Zimbabwe needs to come up with remedies to its high wage bill and to solve labour disputes over retrenchment packages.
4.5 There is also need for the airline to increase its cargo related revenues.
4.6 An analysis of the financial statements indicated that Air Zimbabwe did not have capacity to offer services that were required. There was need for the shareholder to decide whether Air Zimbabwe needed to be rescued by recapitalization or be liquidated.
4.7 There is need for Air Zimbabwe to always issue a press statement timeously responding to allegations, mishaps or any rumours that might damage the image of the airline.
5.0 Recommendations
Your Committee therefore recommends that:-
5.1 Air Zimbabwe must review its Strategic Plan in consultation with the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
5.2 The shareholder must in future appoint Board Members who have knowledge and expertise in aviation industry and the board must consider the same when appointing members of the
staff.
5.3 The Board must appoint the Chief Executive Officer and key members of management by end of May 2016.
5.4 The shareholder should expeditiously finalise the issue of a strategic partner for Air Zimbabwe as the airline critically needs capital injection by December 2016.
5.5 Air Zimbabwe should have audited accounts and a proper accounting system that meet the Public Finance
Management standards by December 2016.
5.6 The Minister should provide a detailed report to the
Committee on the status/condition of Air Zimbabwe’s assets quarterly.
5.7 The Minister should also give quarterly reports on the quality of services both on board and ground at Air Zimbabwe including how often the airline meets its schedules time to avoid speculation by members of the public.
5.8 Cognisant of the fact that information is power, Air Zimbabwe should always issue a press statement timeously responding to allegations, mishaps or any rumours that might damage the image of the airline.
5.9 The Minister should bring to Parliament maintenance records of the airline’s individual fleet which should include all letters and responses for requests of extensions on mandatory services and replacement of spare parts on the airline’s aircraft.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: I rise to second the report from the Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructure. It is clear from the report that those who were listening can take up all the technical points and technical problems that bedevil the airline. It is important that the executive – talking about the Minister of Transport and Infrastructure himself, must look into the working operations of Air Zimbabwe since it is a private company under his supervision. The state of the planes at Air Zimbabwe calls for urgent repairs. The number of staff members who are there as already indicated are too many and the institution cannot pay them. There has not been enough capital injection for more than 6 to 7 years. The strategic plan which was shown to the committee showed that there was no agreement between the Minister and his Board. The board was temporarily in existence. There was also a problem on non permanent staff. Most of the staff at Air
Zimbabwe are acting.
So, when looking at the overall report, it looks like the Ministry has forgotten or has put the work on Air Zimbabwe as unimportant. There is nothing that is going on at Air Zimbabwe, just like what is happening at National Railways of Zimbabwe and all these institutions which are key to the development of Zimbabwe and modern understanding of transportation. These need to be revitalized so they are running again.
The issue of IATA has been there for so many years and up to date nothing has been done. The issue of staff members who are still being paid while sitting at home has not been resolved and I want to suggest that since the recommended date of May has lapsed of having permanent staff, at least at senior level, let it be by September this year. We must by then have permanent staff at Air Zimbabwe if we want to get a proper strategic plan. Also, the strategic plan which they are using must be revised since it was not agreed upon between the Minister and the staff. So, it is important that they use their strategic plan as their blueprint towards revitalizing Air Zimbabwe. In their proposed strategic plan, we as Members of Parliament saw it reasonable that since Air Zimbabwe is broke, maybe they should look for a strategic partner who is going to help them ensure Air Zimbabwe comes back to life. This strategic plan might need Government to take over the present debt and allow the partner to start afresh and probably to start recruiting new staff because the big burden is on the staff members who are there. We have had a meeting with the pilots who have also proposed that there is need to revitalize the airline by at least starting with a UK flight, which will be used by a lot of
Zimbabweans in the diaspora. They are currently using Ethiopian Airlines, Egypt Air and others. If at least we could run that line with the present 767 then we will go somewhere. But because of our IATA problems, we might not be able to land in the UK.
So, we need the Ministry to take Parliament seriously and look at this entity to ensure that it works. All the recommendations that we have put forward need to come to fruition. To put it on record, there are only three planes running and they are not even running efficiently because of age and other things. The other two Boeing A320 Airbuses do not belong to Air Zimbabwe but are actually leased. I read somewhere where it was indicated that the lease amount is more than what they are making by running one of the planes. So, they are leasing equipment which is not running, thus we need a proper report, hence the reason we suggested a quarterly report to Parliament to ensure that Air Zimbabwe runs efficiently and brings service to Zimbabwean nationals. If it is not going to run, we must be told that we cannot run Air Zimbabwe and be given the alternatives to ensure we have access to different destinations in this developed world. I thank you.
HON. RUNGANI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MPARIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 21st June, 2016.
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE ON A DEFINITE MATTER
OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE: ZIMA’S DECISION TO DEMAND CASH FROM PATIENTS
HON. MARIDADI: I move that the House do now adjourn.
HON. NDUNA: I second
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, earlier on, I moved for adjournment of the House which has now happened in terms of Standing Order No. 59 (1) to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance relating to the announcement by the Zimbabwe Medical Association (ZIMA) that starting July 1, 2016, their members will not be accepting patients on medical aid insurance.
Mr. Speaker, let me start this debate by saying that the
Constitution of Zimbabwe is one of the most progressive in the region if not in Africa for two reasons. It has a section on Fundamental Human Rights. One of the rights that are listed there is the right to life under Section 48 and the right to health care under Section 76.
This morning Mr. Speaker, when I came to Parliament, I met Hon. Chipato who is having a problem with her eyes. She said that she would want to get spectacles but she has been told to wait until next month. What it means is that she is not able to get the spectacles next month because medical doctors will not be accepting medical insurance. Mr. Speaker, here are the facts of the matter. Zimbabwe has 36 medical aid societies. Of the 36, Premier Medical Aid Society is the biggest; there are about 1.2 million
Zimbabweans on medical insurance. Premier Service Medical Aid Society caters for 874 000 of those members, so the remainder about 400 000 are distributed amongst the remaining 35 medical aid societies.
Mr. Speaker, Cellmed Medical Aid Society, their cheapest rate is about US$14 per month for individuals. Their most expensive is US$321 dollars a month for individuals. What it means is that on an average, they make about US$150 per person. If you look at 1.2 million people and you look at the average amount that is paid by members to the various medical aid societies, what it means is that medical insurance in general is a very lucrative business. Medical insurance in particular, on an average, medical aid societies in Zimbabwe should be making about 70 to 80 million dollars on a monthly basis from contributions of members.
Now, Zimbabwe Medical Association is an association
mainly of general practitioners. It is not a creation of an Act of Parliament; it is basically a pressure group of medical doctors mainly general practitioners. So, when Zimbabwe Medical Association is speaking, they are not talking on behalf of all the health care givers in the country, they are speaking on behalf of a group of medical doctors. They cannot give a statement of all the doctors in the country. We have several categories of medical doctors who have different associations. For example, nurses have their own nurses association; we have surgeons that have their own association. We have dentists and opticians that have their own associations.
So, Zimbabwe Medical Association is a group of medical doctors that does not represent everybody. Now, Mr. Speaker, the reason Premier Medical Aid Society came up with PSMI, clinics and hospitals, was because of disagreements that had existed with medical doctors who were refusing to take their medical aid cards. So, they said to their members, instead of going to practitioners out there, you go to our clinics; that is why they have those clinics.
Now, ZIMA according to the research that I have had, they have always refused to take medical aid cards from Premier
Service Medical Aid Society. So, the question that PSMAS is asking, is which cards are they now refusing to take because they have always been refusing to take our cards.
Mr. Speaker, there is a surgery in Mabvuku which does not take medical aid society cards, they take cash. Their consultation fee is US$5. I went to that surgery and the owner of that surgery told me that he could go for two days without a single patient visiting his surgery because people do not have money. The money is just not available, especially more-so now where there is no cash in the market. Where can a person get US$60 for consultation?
Mr. Speaker Sir, in any case, here is the information that I have. On yellow fever, if you want to travel to countries where they demand that you have yellow fever vaccination, for you to get yellow fever vaccination in Zimbabwe, you need something between US$56 and US$66. I have a friend who travelled to Kenya last week without yellow fever vaccination. When they got to the airport, they were asked to produce the yellow fever vaccination card which they did not have and were told to go to the clinic at the airport and get vaccinated. There was a penalty because they had gone there without yellow fever vaccination. The yellow fever vaccination plus the penalty is US$24 in Kenya and yet in Zimbabwe, it costs between US$56 and US$66. A scan in Zimbabwe, according to Premier Service Medical Aid Society costs US$500. In Kenya, it costs US$100 and in South Africa, it costs US$90.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what it means is that medical care in Zimbabwe is very expensive. It is very expensive to access medical care in Zimbabwe. Three or four weeks ago, when ZANU PF had their Million Men March, there was an accident at
Mabvuku turn-off. A number of women that were coming from Manicaland, I think they were going for the march because they were in ZANU PF regalia and were involved in an accident. Three of them were injured and I happened, to get to the scene of the accident. So, I took those three ladies to hospital and one of them was actually injured, I think she had spinal injuries. She had a medical aid card, but was denied medical attention because I think it was Premier Service Medical Aid Society card.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when I left the hospital, I left my phone number that she could call me later. She said she was denied medical attention because they did not accept the medical aid card. What it means is that, that lady probably contributes US$35 a month to Premier Service Medical Aid Society and she hss probably been contributing for the past ten years; now she is ill, she needs medical attention for about US$250. She is not able to access it and she dies sitting on the bench yet she has been contributing for the past ten years. Here is one of the odd days that she has gone to seek medical attention and she is not able to get it.
Mr. Speaker, 1.2 million people are on medical aid but the announcement that has been made by the Zimbabwe Medical Association makes it sounds as if no Zimbabwean is then able to access medical attention without cash. We are now on our own and yet it is only 1.2 million people. Of those 1.2 million people, I said 874 000 are on Premier Medical Aid. They have their clinics and they are not affected by the announcement of Zimbabwe Medical Association. So, it means it is only these other 400 000 people that are affected but in any case, the Zimbabwe Medical Association does not speak for all the doctors. There are other general practitioners who are not even members of the Zimbabwe Medical
Association because they are a voluntary organisation.
Premier Service Medical Aid Society gets all of its contribution from Government. So, the prayer in this motion Mr. Speaker, is that the Minister immediately must intervene to correct the impasse which is between the medical association and medical aid societies. In any case, the Minister’s response will be that - why should I intervene and speak to a voluntary organisation of 150 people which is trying to hold the nation to ransom? That will be the Minister’s response and correctly so.
Mr. Speaker, other medical doctors have been phoning medical aid societies to say look, why cannot you just ignore what ZIMA is saying and continue as you were doing. This is because when medical aid societies have contracts, they do not contract associations; they sign a contract with medical doctors as individuals. So, medical doctor A goes to a medical society to sign a contract as an individual and medical doctor B goes to sign a contract as an individual. They actually agree on the fees that are supposed to be paid as consultation.
When medical doctors are paid through medical aid societies, it is easier for ZIMRA to trace tax because there is a paper trail. However, when medical doctors are paid cash, it might be difficult for ZIMRA to trace their tax because there is no paper trail. I walk into a surgery today, and medical doctor A charges me $60 for consultation and maybe $200 for his service and might choose not to give me a receipt. So, ZIMRA might not be able to trace that.
Most importantly is that when there is a problem between the medical insurance company and the medical doctor, it is not a member of the public or the medical aid society who should suffer. Why should ordinary people suffer? The person who must suffer is either the company that is deducting money from the employee, which is not remitting to the medical aid society or the medical aid society which is not collecting its money from the employees. The person who is contributing money has nothing to do with the relationship between the medical doctor and the medical aid society.
Hon. Chipato is contributing her $60 a month and all she needs are spectacles. She is not concerned about the relationship between the optician and the medical aid society. She is contributing money because she knows that cash is hard to come by. One day she will fall ill in the middle of the month when she does not have cash to go and consult a medical doctor. She must be able to walk in, produce her medical aid card and get attention.
She should not suffer because there is an impasse between PSMAS and medical doctors. Medical doctors should find a way of getting their money on time from medical aid societies. That has nothing to do with the people who are contributing money. Why should we be held to ransom for the sake of the relationship of these two?
Mr. Speaker, people who are working in Government includes the 874 000 members of the Premier Service who are paying money on a monthly basis. When you get your payslip, it indicates that you have contributed so much to tax, NSSA and medical aid. Therefore, you must be able to walk into any doctor and say please give me a service and you must get it. Whether the doctor is going to get his money from the medical insurance company or not is not your business. Medical aid is a form of insurance and that is why we even insure our cars. You insure your car in the event that one day you will get into an accident. When you get into an accident, you do not want to walk into an insurance company and they tell you that the money that your company was deducting was not getting to us, so we cannot fix your car.
Mr. Speaker, I would want to say, firstly medical insurance companies must pay doctors on time for the services rendered. That goes without saying. When someone renders a service, they must get paid. The payment of money to medical doctors must not have anything to do with contributors or the ordinary people. I do not think Zimbabwe Medical Association must hold people to ransom and make statements which cause despondency in the country. The statement that they put in the newspapers basically says that no medical doctor is going to attend to a patient without cash upfront. That is the import of their statement; no money, no treatment and the statement is factually incorrect. There are some doctors today who are giving service without money. I am on Cellmed and the day before yesterday, I went to see a dentist. I produced my card and I got a service. I am supposed to go back to the dentist in the next three weeks and three weeks will be well into July.
After reading the newspaper and the statement of the Zimbabwe Medical Association, I now begin to think, am I going to get a service or not. When I phoned my dentist, he said no, no, no, I am not even bound by the statement because I am not a member of that voluntary association. I am a member of the Association of Dentists. He said there are other medical doctors like surgeons who are not bound by the statement and they would be very happy to give service.
Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister as the regulatory authority, must intervene and correct that position. If there is anyone who is being mischievous, I think the Minister must call them to order. I sympathise with medical doctors. I must not be construed to say that I do not sympathise with medical doctors. What is happening is that when medical doctors give a service and accept a medical aid card, there is a paper trail. ZIMRA will come and demand tax based on the invoices that have been given, yet the medical doctor has not been paid his money by the medical aid society. Therefore, what it means is that the medical doctor must pay tax for money that he has not received. For example, if a medical doctor is owed
$100 000 by the medical insurance, he must pay tax for that $100 000 before he has received that money, which is unfair.
Lastly, I would like to call upon the Government because one of the issues that have been raised by the medical aid society, especially PSMAS is that Government has not been remitting the money that it is deducting from Government employees. The
Government is deducting money but that money is not remitted to PSMAS. Mr. Speaker, my prayer is that the Minister as the regulatory authority, must intervene and bring normalcy to this industry before people die. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will talk as the seconder of this motion and I applaud the mover of this motion,
Hon. Maridadi for speaking so vociferously about the need to indulge in information technology and dissemination through the modern day way of doing business. Mr. Speaker Sir, he has quite ventilated a lot of key points in particular that where there is service that is rendered, service needs to be paid for. I also applaud that and allude to that fact.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will start with the prayer where I believe the referee in this matter, who is the Minister of Health and Child Care should immediately make a Ministerial Statement to allay the fears of those that are contributing towards medical aid, those that are receiving medical attention, those that are giving medical attention and the recipients of payment for those that are giving medical attention.
I also stand here as the Chairperson of your Portfolio Committee on Transport and Infrastructural Development where there are 15 accidents per day and five people are dying each day due to road carnage. In those 15 accidents per day, you have more than 45 people that are injured who require medical attention. In the same vein, I call for Government to expeditiously enact or put in place the Road Disaster Management Fund that is going to cater for those that are injured in road accidents and also expedite the disbursement of compassionate funds towards those that will have been bereaved in these road carnages.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I talk about those that die in road traffic accidents per day, I am also alive to the fact that they could be contributors to medical aid societies and it means each month, we are removing out of circulation, contributors to the tune of 150 men, women or children that contribute towards Medical Aid Societies. However, one would want or hasten to ask how many of these people get their reimbursement once they do not get the services from these doctors because they would have perished in these accidents. In a way, we need to make sure that we oil and computerise the system so that backward and forward linkages are well oiled in a way that is going to seek reimbursement and seek forward contribution for those that would have survived and bereaved in these road traffic accidents because their remittances get to be cut short as soon as they are involved in this process of bereavement.
Why do I talk of computerisation of remittances and payment systems towards Medical Aid Societies. I am alive to the fact that Statutory Instrument 45 of 2005 speaks to 12.5% remittances to Traffic Safety Council from all insurance sectors that are currently handling insurance for third party insurances. All this money to the tune of US$72m per year was not having the 12.5% being deducted from it until your Committee raised its voice and concern and spoke with passion when they brought before it the Permanent Secretary of Transport and Infrastructural Development to the effect that the Permanent Secretary and his entourage were going to be held responsible individually and severally if this Statutory Instrument was not enforced in its totality.
As we speak, the contributions of insurance and remittances of 12.5% to Traffic Safety Council are now without any impediment because they have been computerised and that money is now going where it is supposed to go. It is now being directed in the manner that it is supposed to be directed for awareness campaigns and maybe in the future, for compensation to those that would have been bereaved and those that would have been injured in road traffic accidents.
As I started my prayer was also that immediately we need to establish a road disaster medical fund so that everybody, irrespective of age, gender or creed who is involved in a road traffic accident can and must be catered for by this money. I am alive to the fact that if you remit about US$72m per year, 5% of that goes to ZIMRA which ZIMRA was not getting before we implemented the system or before we brought before your Committee the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural
Development to make sure they enforce the collection of the 12.5% in terms of remittances to Traffic Safety Council. ZIMRA was not getting that 5% which translates to about US$3m. That is a windfall that comes as a result of computerisation using ICT gadgets for effective enforcement of the Act.
I make a clarion call that if there is a problem remitting the monies to the doctors that would have provided services, let us indulge in the same computerisation mechanism so that we do not have a challenge for those that would be needing medical cover in the event that they are involved in road carnage or they are ailing because of cancer and other ailments.
I need to give you a brief on the cost of medical operations here in Zimbabwe. I had two of my relatives undergo operation on their legs and some implants given to alleviate their plight in their legs. The operations cost nothing below US$3500. They are going to cost the same amount to remove those implants or the plugs that were planted in those knees and legs. What this means is that because of the economic problems that are currently bedeviling this country, we cannot optimally pay for such services using cash.
What it means is that we are paying for these services in advance using medical aid remittances and payments.
What we need is the medical aid societies to shape up or ship out because if they do not pay, they are mortgaging the future of this country. The people that are paid for in terms of medical services and medical insurance range from those that have not been born to those that are old. We are putting the nation at risk by making sure that we are not optimally utilising this medical aid system for the betterment of the health of our nation.
As I conclude, I need to make a prayer that the Minister needs to come in and make a public pronouncement or give a Ministerial Statement to allay the fears because information is power and I shudder to think what my grandmother in Gokwe is thinking about now when she hears over the radio or through media that there is no more allowance or receipt for the medical aid cards. Information is key and there is no publicity which is bad publicity. Let us engage the media so that we inform the elderly people wherever they are that the medical aid facilities are still functional. I thank you.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: I want to add my voice to this motion which is urgent. From what has been brought to our attention that the doctors are not going to take medical cards, it can cause a lot of problems in the whole country because when people go to get medical insurances or any insurances, it is to prepare for their future. What we need from the Minister of Health and Child Care is to explain to us the link between the insurance company, the doctors and the hospital so that we know their common understanding such that the doctors can claim that they cannot take this. There should be an understanding of these institutions which has been prepared by Government already in our Acts of Parliament or statutes. I am saying we need that clear explanation of why a person who has already had an insurance which is valid is being refused treatment.
Secondly, we need also a proper conversation with our doctors. The doctors are qualified and they have done everything but I think our medical system is too expensive. Honestly, to go and see a specialist who is charging anything between $80 and $120, I tell you that it is refusing the common man medical attention. Today there is no cash and someone is pronouncing that when you come to my office, come with cash. Is that not condemning people to death? Are these people thinking about the common man? Are these people thinking about the ordinary person? I do not know whether there is a way of making sure that while you are qualified, still have your professional certificate and still need to be paid, you still have the ethical behaviour which is expected of any medical practioner to attend to any patient whom you meet. If I fall down here, Dr. Labode has to pay attention to me and not demand to be paid first.
This is what we are praying our doctors look at to say when a patient goes to their rooms, they are looking for special attention.
This is especially so with those who have specialised because you cannot have specialists everywhere. We can get General Practitioners anywhere but we need to look into our laws and ensure that anyone who gets sick gets medical attention. I think our Constitution is very clear that everybody is entitled to medical attention.
We also need to address the problem between parastatals, Government and probably local authorities that have not been remitting their insurances. We need to ensure that when a person gets his/her pay slip, what is done to ensure the money is remitted? Maybe we should change from getting Stop Orders from salaries and have people paying directly to medical aid societies or to whoever is supposed to provide the service. We worked out when we were sitting here to say if each person pays $14.00 per month, there is $14 million collected from one million contributors. Is that not a lot of money to run medical aid societies? How many people get attention? Do we get bills that exceed $14 million in a month especially in basic treatment of just seeing a doctor?
We are looking at all these costs to say $14.00 is a lot because some people pay over $100.00, meaning they cover for the poor. They try to balance with your level of treatment because as you get more elite, you get more fair treatment. We are saying there is enough within the medical aid societies which is being paid to run these insurances and still have their businesses intact. We also think that we need to rationalise the payments with private and specialist doctors. If I need a hip operation, I must pay $10 000.00 and I am from the village. Where do I get $10 000.00 from?
Now you are saying I cannot use the little that I have tried to save just to see a doctor. Honestly the doctors have to be humane, work with their people and also try to fight their war where it is suitable with the medical aid insurances since they are the people with whom they have already agreed to serve. There is already an agreement that is why they are now saying we cannot take these cards. Everybody gets medical aid because they want to access these private doctors and not because they want to go to clinics. You do not need a medical aid card to go to a clinic.
We are saying that the Minister must come and inform this august House on what they would have agreed on within the next few days whether we are still going to use our cards or not. Even to say Premier Medical Aid Society (PSMAS) we need to see a doctor, I do not need to go and look for someone. When I am sick, I do not have time to be ferried to hospital by someone, beg them to go to my medical aid society to get cash and bring it to the doctor. That is unfair treatment to the common man.
Mr. Speaker, this Parliament must rise, stop it and must be able to see everyone getting proper medical attention so that we live. We are a nation. We are so small, we are only 12 or 13 million and must live for each other. I thank you.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
My debate is very short, brief and to the point but firstly, I must commend Hon. Maridadi for bringing this very important motion to this august House.
This motion is important because it speaks to the health of a nation. The health of a nation is a very critical phenomenon and I would want to implore the doctors who have given a statement to the press that they can only experiment with certain objects in their laboratories but cannot experiment with the health of human beings. It is very dangerous.
I want to believe that the Hon. Minister of Health should appear before this august House, give us information and clear explanation on what is really taking place. What I foresee is a situation where A is blaming B, B is blaming C and C is blaming Y for not remitting funds. So I think that is to the detriment of the people that we represent. I say Hon. Maridadi tabled an interesting motion because people out there look upon us to rise like Hon.
Mudzuri said and challenge things that we think are not good for them and represent them fully.
This report does not make us happy at all. It brings panic, despondency and will make us fail to have faith in the administration of the health services sector. So, we pray that the Hon. Minister appears before this august House and gives us information on what is happening. Suffice to say members of the public must not, must not, I repeat, be inconvenienced in every aspect. We go to banks, there is no money. You want to be treated, someone says I cannot take your card. We cannot continue like that.
We are a nation with a lot of economic challenges and that impacts badly not on those people that at least get something but the poor, those that we represent from Buhera, Muzarabani, Mbire, Matabeleland South and North. I think it is very critical that the Executive looks at this matter as a matter of urgency and we get information on what is happening by next week. I thank you.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Thank you very
much Mr. Speaker. Like my other colleagues, I would like to thank Hon. Maridadi for raising this motion. I am glad that it is an urgent motion and that it was supported by both sides of the
House, which just proves how important it is that we deal with it.
I am going to speak to one or two issues on this particular motion. When we talk about urgency, sometimes it looks like we are just speaking for the sake of speaking. As we talk right now, women that had registered with their medical aid cards and are supposed to go and give birth on the basis of those cards are not going to be able to do so. So we are talking about a majority of this population having a serious problem about this and if somebody does not think this is urgent, I do not know what is going to be urgent. This is not about the money that is not being transferred but about human lives and what is going to happen. Link this process to the fact that there is no cash and it just becomes a real disaster. We cannot have individuals standing up and making a decision about what is going to happen to human lives and Government is sitting there, watching and doing nothing about it.
The Constitution itself defines that there is right to health and this right to health has to be observed by medical aid societies, doctors and Government itself. I am surprised that we are sitting here as Members of Parliament and there are no Ministers on the front bench. I would have thought that the moment there was this crisis, an urgent Cabinet meeting would have been called to say what is it that we can do about this?
This is not a subject of a few of us who are sitting in this
House debating it. It is critical, urgent and something needs to be done. I contribute to a medical aid, just to show you the level we have gotten to as a country – we are saying our economy has gone under deflation – as late as last week, my medical aid agent increased subscriptions by US$20, and this is First Mutual. I said to them does this make sense that at this particular point in time of the economy you are increasing the subscriptions.
This shows you that there is something wrong with our general thinking sometimes in this country. When things are bad, it is as if we are trying to find something that makes it worse. We are already in a very bad situation, how somebody can think that the best thing to do right now is to deny people medical aid I have no idea. As it is, we are faced with the problem of liquidity; we are going to have problems in getting drugs to come into the country. In fact, most pharmacies right now are saying if you have any kind of chronic illness, make sure that you order your medicine for as long as three months or so, so that you have a reserve. That is one problem that is there.
The person who may not be able to get medicine will be stuck and if they were to collapse, they cannot get treatment at hospitals. What exactly are we saying as a nation? I hear my colleagues who are saying we need to get the Minister of Health to come here. However, for me, we need to get at the highest level of Government, somebody who is calling for an urgent Cabinet meeting and looking at how this can be resolved. We cannot have another extra 24 hours coming through. We have road accidents happening and for some reasons, 15 to 16 people are dying at the same time and others are being taken to hospital. Can you imagine that you have a crisis and somebody is being taken to hospital whilst someone stands up there and saying, ‘I cannot treat you because as far as I am concerned, yes you have a medical aid but you cannot be treated.’
If this was happening in some countries, we would be having not a Ministerial Statement but a Presidential Statement. We had people being killed in Orlando and immediately, we were having the State House issuing a statement. The President needs to step up and say this is what is going to happen tomorrow. I am not interested in the Minister of Health anymore. The fact that we have gone this far without a statement being issued by him, speaks a lot about what he is doing. What is the President saying in this particular instance?
I think sometimes we are so used to suffering so much as Zimbabweans that when things happen, we just look and watch and we say ooh so today it is about medical aid, tomorrow there is no water and tomorrow there will be no electricity. We will not have food and that is totally unacceptable. I support my colleagues - in conclusion, on some of the things we need to deal with when we have dealt with the crisis on medical aid.
The issue of the expense associated with treatment. As I speak Mr. Speaker – I have said this before in this House – issues to do with mental illness, any form of depression and anxiety are not covered in your medical aid. So, if you are having problems with depression or something like that, they give you a certain amount of money for your treatment. I am speaking from experience. For the reason that I could not get that treatment, I went to India. If you compare the amount of money that I had to pay in India and what I had to pay here, it is ridiculous. To see a doctor I only paid US$5 and to get my medication I had to pay – it is unfortunate that Hon. Chimedza is not here, at one time when I came back here and he was going to India, I asked him to buy medication for me. He just spent US$20 and paid for medication that I was taking from January up to December. In this country it is impossible to get any of that stuff. Sometimes we are now asking people to go to India to get treatment not as a luxury but because I am able to afford treatment there more than I can here. I pay for my air ticket and go and do all those things – [AN HON. MEMBER: Vanoitorepi mari yekuenda kuIndia?] – all I am saying is that let us do a comparison.
We cannot have other countries charging certain amounts of money and we are asking for large amounts of money. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am bringing a motion around mental illness and depression and I will deal with it in direct forms. I could not resist raising the issues around the cost of getting medical treatment in this country as compared to other countries. It is ridiculous and does not make sense. However, I support the motion that has been brought, but like I am saying, unlike my other colleagues who think we should have a Ministerial Statement, I am not interested in that, can we have the President’s comment on this. Can Cabinet give us a Statement on what is going on because we are losing lives every minute as we speak in this House? I thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir.
HON. NDEBELE: On a point of order. I also wish to be recognised, I have not spoken in this House for a long time –
[Laughter.] – I have a right.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): Order, there is no point of order.
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Hon. Speaker. First of all I would like to thank Hon. Maridadi for moving such an important motion. The same issues that happened to the Hon. Member who mentioned the issue of being unable to be treated because of medical aid also happened to me. There is nothing that is as bad as paying for something and expecting to receive a service but you are told that you are unable to receive it.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there are a few issues that are so important. I will not take time in repeating what has been said, but I want to highlight some of the issues that are pertinent. Section 119 of the Constitution provides that we have an oversight role on the Executive and as a legislator we have three roles to play. One of the roles is representing the people, which is one of the most important.
The reason I am talking like this Mr. Speaker is that there are many people who are unable to speak for themselves – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – and if we do not speak for them, they will be looking and saying, what are we coming to Parliament for. The rate of accidents that have been happening on our highways has been very high. I travel a lot, I am 400km away from Harare and every time I come to Harare, there will be an accident on the road.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when you look at it, the people who are affected are the same people who elected us to come into this august House. The loss of one life is one too many – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Mr. Speaker, talking about this, we have third party insurances which, before you even licence your vehicle you are told to go and get your insurance and a third party is meant to cater for deaths and injuries. However, Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to say that it is almost a scam of making money.
We, as Parliamentarians in this august House, from
Ministerial to whatever position from the lowest paid member of Government, contribute towards medical aid. The reason why we contribute is because we know that anything can happen. Mr. Speaker Sir, in life, your health comes first and everything else, whether it is your position, your money or whatever that follows.
With no good health, all that falls away. I am saying all this because we have people like Cuthbert Dube, who took our money and nothing was done to him. He walked away scot free with millions of dollars but when one of our relatives – I mean my wife takes medication every month and without that medication, it is a problem. She cannot sustain it but she has to get that medicine. So, I always have to make sure that I have got extra funds, yet I am paying medical aid.
What more when I am in Harare, in Parliament, busy debating and one of my six children at school need the services of a doctor and they do not accept medical aid. What is going to happen, yet month after month I contribute. Whether the money reaches the society or not, it should not be upon us, especially in Government institutions. We thought that maybe by clearing Cuthbert Dube out of the system, something would happen. Now, we are allowing organisations to make certain statements and to actually say what they are going to do.
Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue and I feel that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development should come and address us regarding this issue. I say that because Treasury releases money and if it is not releasing money, tell us then give it to us to pay for ourselves. But if we say we are up-to-date with our medical aid payments and we have no overdraft on the medical aid but still find that at the end of the day, Holder will not be treated simply because he needs $25. It is not every minute that a person can have money in his pocket. This is why it is important that we need to make sure that on some of the laws, Hon. Members have to put mechanisms in place so that at least a person will be compelled by the law.
We have over 33 medical aid institutions in this country. There is MASCA, CIMAS, and even the insurance companies that used to give life insurance have now moved to medical aid. However, the saddest part about it is that we have our own medical aid PSMAS and it is not accepted. Sometimes as you walk into the pharmacy or into the doctors’ rooms, there is a big sign “PSMAS
not accepted”. So, if it is not accepted, in fact that institution should be closed down.
Mr. Speaker, if we allow organisations to make groupings which harm us, this is like cutting your nose to spite your face. I am saying this because it seems that a lot of issues happen and we have a lot of lives that are lost simply because no one will touch you because you do not have money. Now, the system that is there, where you have to use plastic money yet there are no machines there. The banks give you $100, whether you are a Member of Parliament, a Chief or whatever; it is $100 because law is law. Now, if I fall sick in the afternoon and I decide to go to the doctor and there is this big sign that you have to pay cash and you can claim it back yourself.
If I ask here, out of all the MPs or anyone working here in Parliament, how many people have not received their money back from medical aid, you will see how many hands will come up. It is just promises and promises, the money does not come. Many a times, I have gone to the accounts department and actually wrote a letter to say I would like to withdraw from medical aid because I am not getting a fair deal back. I am being short changed and I feel that if I am being short changed as an Hon. Member, who came in this august House with 18,000 or 30,000 people behind me and if I do not talk about it, what about the people who cannot talk. I feel it is unfair and I believe that the Minister should actually address this. If there is a problem in finance, they need to sort it out on their own without involving individuals.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I can speak the whole day and night and repeat but I would say, please if it is possible, can the Minister address this as a state of emergency because this is unacceptable and totally unacceptable even to the Hon. Members of this august
House. I thank you. - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. NDEBELE: I am almost tempted Hon. Speaker to
say this House, as it rises in unison like this, has come of age. I would like to congratulate the Hon. Members. Parliament can certainly not go about its business as if it is business as usual, as it were. At the face of it, this may appear like a mere health concern but without spoiling the broth, I honestly believe that this motion runs deeper than what appears at on the surface. At the core of issues here, is a reflection of a bigger tragedy, which is the economic melee bedeviling this country. It speaks of a deeper rot because this House finds itself at the cross roads, at this very minute. On one hand are doctors, who are professionals that must be paid, yet on the other hand are people who are unemployed and can meekly afford to pay the same doctors in order to be treated.
It raises important questions about the capacity of our
Government to play the role of adjudicator in this whole debacle. Hon. Maridadi, I may want to differ a bit, whereupon you suggest that Government must be the adjudicator between ZIMA and the medical aid societies, because I have important questions of the same Government. Is the person in the fore front not the very same Minister that was in the newspapers for defrauding PSMAS?
These are rhetorical questions. Is the same Minister not the same
Minister who has never given a ministerial statement in this House? Is he not the same Minister that has even failed to sit in a hotel elsewhere and address his role in the PSMAS debacle? –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Hon. Speaker, I need your protection.
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are
protected.
HON. NDEBELE: So, who adjudicates? I honestly think that if we keep saying Minister, Minister, the Minister also approaches this question with dirty hands. I therefore move quickly to agree with my colleague Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, so that I do not fail to pronounce the other one. That if the Minister is not the rightful person as I have demonstrated, is it not time then Mr. Speaker, for this House to fall back on Section 140 (3) of our Constitution which allows for our President who is the Chief Executive of this country to come into this very House to address important questions around matters of health. As I have indicated, this has a link to the economy. We are now into a stage where Ministers have failed to attend to economic problems that we raise here. Companies are closing Hon. Speaker.
Our greatest treasure, the diamonds seem to have disappeared. People have lost jobs, there is no confidence in the financial services sector. The youth are getting restless as you can see through WhatsApp, videos and messages. It is not youths from one political party, it is youths from right across the political divide. It is therefore my prayer Mr. Speaker, that this House falls on Section 140 (4), so that through your office, necessary arrangements are made for Parliament to receive a State of the Nation Address from His Excellency, there can never be a better time than this. This is my prayer. Also to indicate that this motion at the face of it, might look like a health problem but certainly it is an indictment on our Government. Something must be done and must be done urgently. I thank you.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, the situation
in the country is what is referred to as organised chaos. The organised chaos starts from people who are importing medication. India and South Africa are promising us cheap medication, but it is the people who decide on the procurement of medicine, they select whatever it is they want. They deny medication from South Africa or India to come into the country. What we want is that there should be a clearance of these medications for our benefit but it takes time for this medication to be cleared at the border until it expires there. We have organisations which are in this country, which are employing people and are deducting monies from employees but fail to remit it to Premier Service Medical Aid
Society.
Mr. Speaker Sir, they would rather get that money and give it to the leadership of the company. They do not care about the
lower grades but the Chief Executives are paid as much as US$9 000 at the expense of the poor worker. Some organisations are also buying or constructing expensive buildings instead of giving service to workers. This is also happening in parastatals where the Chief Executives are paying themselves handsomely, nobody cares about the lowest paid worker.
The monies which are remitted again to Premier Service, the Executives again are paid obscenely high salaries and this results in the denial of paying the service provider. Hence, the doctors end up complaining because nobody remits those monies to the doctors who have provided the service. Hence, I urge Government to come to the assistance of the public.
In the past when somebody was a doctor, we knew they had to take an oath and werevery dedicated. The recruitment depended on the calling but what is happening at the moment is that people are taking medicine career just for the sake of getting money disadvantaging the people. What we are saying is, if Government is going to allow these doctors to say they are not going to treat people, it will be to the disadvantage of these other organisations. They will come and say they want to hold the country to ransom because it has started from afar, hence there is need to cut this at its root before it grows up.
We remember the Premier Service Medical Aid saga, Mr. Dube who was the Chief Executive officer was supposed to be arrested and convicted. The Auditor and Comptroller General, Mrs. Chiri, did make any investigation and found that he had a case to answer. There was a prima facie case but this was not taken up and we wonder what will happen next. When these doctors will be providing services to the people, they will be giving services and will have the medication at times because you are paying cash. Medicine will be at a lower price but if you had to buy cash, the cost will be higher. Now, they are saying they will not treat people when they come with medical aid cards. What is happening?
Mr. Speaker Sir, the consultation fee is US$100 to be given a prescription. When you want to get that medication, you are advised to go to a pharmacy and buy on your own but you ask that doctor, where does this US$100 consultation fee comes from. Can you make a breakdown, they cannot explain but the same doctors are now saying if you do not have cash upfront, there is no treatment. We have no money at the banks. People had monies deducted from their salaries to Premier Service but the monies were used for different purposes. This will lead to the death of people. Suppose Hon. Maridadi dies because he has not received medical attention; when we have electricity or water problems, we should prioritise somebody’s health and not prioritise paying our water and electricity bills.
We have problems with the calibre of our doctors, they need to be re-examined. We are calling for a statement from the powers that be because if we do not do that, very soon there will be chaos, each organisation holding the country to ransom. I thank you. *HON. MATAMBANADZO: I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir,
for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Maridadi. This is a very serious case. We have had contributions from other Hon. Members who have called that the President should come into this House. As far as I am concerned the President’s Office is a very high office to come and address this issue. It is an issue that should be handled by the Minister and we are saying no, to ransom by these doctors.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it means as representatives of the people, we are representing all the 14 million people who sent us. Therefore, the President did allow that we have to have associations and we are free to associate with whatever association we want; freedom of association and therefore, we should not drag our President into this mud. This should be done by the Minister. We contributed to Premier Medical Aid or any other medical aid association and we should benefit. They have collected these monies, but they are now turning backs on us and saying we should have cash upfront.
Does it mean that I will lose out despite all the payments which I made. As far as I am concerned, it is the Minister’s prerogativeto handle this issue, but we are saying the Minister should not be chucked out whatever it is done. People are blaming him but we are saying, if he was to blame, he should have been convicted at that time. We are now blaming the Minister because of what the doctors are saying; the Minister has nothing to do with that. We cannot remove a capable man because of such a situation; it should not be accepted.
Let me look at the situation since we are representatives of the people and we are educated. I am a Grade Two drop-out but I am also educated. Let us look at the reason why the doctors are now calling for cash up-front. There is a reason which has made them hold the nation at ransom.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I said this is a very important debate to you Hon. Members and those people whom you represent.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
What surprises me is that one of the Members who are heckling is
Hon. Dr. Labode who is the Chairperson of the Health and Child Care Committee. Hon. Members, please listen. I am giving the reasons why doctors have now called for cash up-front instead of them pressurising medical aid societies to give them the monies due to them. The problem is the cash crisis. People are always queuing at the banks and the doctors also want money. We know that people are now selling the US dollars, just like what was happening during the Zimbabwe dollar era, whereby people used to sell US dollars.
Let me give you a simple example. Towards Christmas, we were told that there was a breakdown in the sugar industry or factory and we were told that we were going to have sugar shortages. As a result, sugar disappeared from supermarket shelves because there was hoarding. The price of sugar rose. The problem with the machinery was rectified.
We are now working on the $200 million bond notes and as a result, fear has been instilled in people. People are now withdrawing their money because they have no faith on the bond notes. According to them, they are saying they are afraid of losing their money. The bond note was talked about before it could be printed and introduced into the market. The appropriate thing was to support the $200 million bond note by the US dollar. The US dollar would be withheld by the banks, whilst the bond note is introduced bit by bit so that people would really benefit. Due to the fact that we put the cart before the horse, we now have a problem. People are withdrawing their money because they have no faith in the banking system.
There is another problem which is happening. Doctors now want to have these monies and they know that if they have cash, they can sell it and get 10% profit on the $100 obtained from his surgery. The money is being bought by car dealers. Private car dealers were told that they were not going to receive money to purchase small cars and people who can only receive money from the banks are those who buy buses and lorries. The person who is selling small cars is an indigenous person who is taking money and goes and re-invests it. This person will now collect his cash, go and open an account in Zambia or Mozambique. These people confide in us and say MP, do you know how I am surviving? I am illegally exporting money because it is easy to open an account in Zambia. There we have transactions easily, especially if you want to buy cars. As a result, we are creating criminals of innocent people in Zimbabwe. Our attitudes are really creating these criminals.
Recently, we went to Bulawayo to attend a meeting on the ease of doing business but, is it the ease of doing business when people are held at ransom? The problem is, you said people are not going to be given the money they worked for; you have garnished everything and this really touches me. Mr. Speaker, we are oppressing our people. The person who is oppressing the people is not a Member of Parliament but somebody who is outside the House; just an ordinary member who thinks of this idea, publishes it thus creating panic in the country.
As an MP, I have to bring this to the open because people are saying statements that are detrimental to the survival of the country and this is destroying the country. You have heard one of our Members of Parliament calling for the President to come and address this House on such a small issue which can be handled by the Minister. The people who are creating these ideas are very clever. I am ZANU PF but if I go and knock at the door of a
Minister, I am told that he cannot see me because he has a visiting
Minister from China or Europe. However, if a member of the Opposition visits that same Minister, he is given attention immediately. These Ministers are being given wrong advice and when they come here, they say this is bad. What is happening is that a member of the Opposition gave them wrong advice.
We clapped hands and applauded when Hon. Members said the Minister should resign. They even have the audacity to say the President should come and address us. We need to tell the truth and Ministers should know that when members of the Opposition are approaching them, they should tell them that they are busy because they are giving them wrong advice, which is destroying
Mr. Speaker, we need to urgently look at this rule which is limiting the amount of cash withdrawn from the banks. This is exactly what was happening during the Zimbabwe dollar era. My advice is, the people should be allowed to withdraw the amounts they want. What is happening is, people withdraw the money as it come and withhold it. Thank you.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me the opportunity to make my contribution. I am glad this motion has been supported by both sides. I know some of us are saying something different from others but you know whenever there is a gathering, there is supposed to be agreement and disagreement.
We have about 1.2 million people who were contributing to medical aid societies and they are now being denied treatment. They are told they should pay cash up-front. My payslip shows that I belong to the pinnacle category. It means this is the highest level of contribution and I should be given the prerogative whenever I go for treatment but if you go along Nkwame Nkrumah Avenue, there is a pharmacy which displays a notice on the Medical Aid Societies that they accept. To my surprise, PSMAS is not included among the Medical Aid Societies which are accepted in that pharmacy and it means we cannot really shy away from the problem which we are facing and this includes Members of
Parliament.
My first question is that the amount which is deducted from civil servants to PSMAS is still existing? How much has been collected? When this money was deducted, was it rerouted to PSMAS because we know that if I have been banking my money at CABS, I can withdraw my money from the bank because I am afraid of bond notes. I know some people are saying the Minister should not come and address us on this issue but this is prudent because none of us have an answer to the question and therefore we have members of the Cabinet who were mandated by His
Excellency to come and address such issues. We also have the Minister of Finance and Economic Development who deducts the money on pay slips to come and explain whether the monies were directed to the Medical Aid Societies. It should be known when the deductions were made whether the money was directed to PSMAS and there should be a detailed account to show how that money was used.
My second point is that when we are talking about health issues, we have people who joined in 2013 and they have never accessed any health care services. We have problems in that deductions are being carried out on your salary and yet when you go for treatment, you are asked to pay cash upfront. Right now the banks are giving $100 a day but when you have an emergency and the doctor asks for $250, what are you going to do? By contributing to a Medical Aid Society, you will be actually investing in situations when you need assistance. This is a matter which needs the Minister of Health to respond to.
A lot of people have unanswered questions concerning the statement that was published yesterday that doctors will not accept medical aid cards. We have been told that there are close to 36 medical aid providers but there is need for clarity on this matter so that we can explain to people in our constituencies. If the Minister fails to give an explanation, he should refer the matter to his principal so that we can get a position on the way forward.
The Minister needs to urgently address this situation and not wait for members of the opposition to ask questions. The Minister should be amenable to receive advice even from the opposition because this is a matter that calls for concerted efforts. We are all Zimbabweans and this is our Government but if people decide to shun advice from the opposition, we will not get anywhere. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for
allowing me to air my views to this motion. Like my colleagues have indicated, this is a critical motion that has been raised at the most appropriate time. The criticality of this motion is in the fact that there are social welfare consequences of the decision that was announced yesterday. It is monumental. It leads to serious disastrous consequences.
However, my analysis as I contribute to this motion will be a bit different. I want first to look at the participants of this whole source of the motion. Firstly, there is the poor ordinary man of this country who is meant to be a recipient of medical services who is now going to be affected, not because of their own act but because of the conduct of others. Like every Member has indicated, those that are contributing to Medical Aid Societies are doing so. Every month their monies are being deducted. They are playing their role.
I leave out this participant.
The second participant is the Medical Aid Society itself. On my pay slip, it is indicating that the Medical Aid Society is getting my money every month but when I go to seek for services, I do not access those services. I am not so sure what is really wrong with Medical Aid Societies but I think I will try to make an analysis and point to where the problem lies. Then there are the doctors, those who have said we are withdrawing our services and we will provide them on condition of cash being advanced. There are employees. I sympathise with them as well. I do sympathise with doctors.
There is no way that service can be sustained unless if it receives money. I think we have been receiving complaints for a long time that Medical Aid Societies are not paying money to the doctors and those doctors are also Zimbabweans just like me and everyone else. They need to survive. They have families to take care of. Am I saying their actions are justified, not exactly? It is unethical. Did they really have an option? Should they have acted otherwise? How would they have acted? For a long time the doctors have asked Medical Aid Societies to own up and Medical Aid Societies are not owning up what they owe. Should we expect then the doctors to continue offering services when they are not getting anything in return? I think I sympathise with them.
As much as some of my colleagues where calling for punitive action to be taken against them, personally I do not agree. They are running a business that is meant to make them also to survive. We really need to understand them as well.
Finally, the other participant is the Government. The constitutional provisions that were read about the right to health, the participant which is expected to deliver that right or to satisfy that right, is the Executive. That is where the buck stops. When we look at these other three participants, that is Medical Aid Societies, the recipients of medical services and the doctors, they are all merely victims. When I am angry with the doctors, I am actually a victim who is angry against another victim.
What we are seeing is just one of the many symptoms that are coming out showing what level of economic crisis we have got as a country. This is merely an issue of economic crisis. It is not about the conduct of the doctors or medical aid societies. Yes, some of the medical aid societies have misbehaved but not all of them. Some have tried to manage their finances properly but the economic environment is such that there are no good skills that can be applied for you to run a business properly. So what is the way forward?
In my view, Mr. Speaker … - [AN HON. MEMBER:
Inaudible interjections.] - you can sing that old song forever but it will not change the situation … - [HON. MPARIWA: Taura iwewe
nyaya yako.] – Mr. Speaker, the real issues that we need to address, I know some Hon. Members were calling for Government to intervene and take action but if there is action that this Government has to take is action that redresses the declining of the economy. Once the economy is addressed, I can assure you, we will be able to access medical aid services … - [HON. MPARIWA: Ndipo
pane nyaya!] – Medical aid societies will be able to pay doctors, doctors will be able to live properly and allow people with medical aid to access their services. As long as the economy is going downwards and sinking as it is, there is no miracle that is going to happen.
What we need to do, like Hon. Ndebele indicated, I think the Chief Executive Officer has to wake up and know that this economy is dead and he should resuscitate it. It is his sole responsibility and none other than himself. The President is charged with the responsibility of ensuring that the economy of this country runs and where it stands right now, all macroeconomic variables are indicating that there is nothing working in this country. The only macro-economic variables that are increasing are unemployment and poverty levels as everything else is declining.
My recommendations are that when you fail you go out, when you fail you resign and let others do it. I am saying it does not need a rocket scientist to say that the Chief Executive Officer of this country has failed … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - It does not need a prophet to say that in terms of running the economy of the this country because the primary responsibility of a Government is to ensure that the economic and social welfare of its citizens are catered for…
HON. MATAMBANADZO: On a point of order Hon.
Speaker, we no longer constitute a quorum.
[Bells rung.]
An objection having been taken that there being present fewer than (70) members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER adjourned the House without any question put at Twenty-Three Minutes to Six o’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following members were present when the
House adjourned: Hon. Chibagu; Hon. Chikomba; Hon.
Chimwamurombe; Hon. Chitindi; Hon. Chiwetu; Hon. Cross; Hon.
Dziva; Hon. Kaundikiza; Hon. Kazembe; Hon. M. Khumalo; Hon.
Khupe; Hon. Labode; Hon. Machingura; Hon. Mandipaka; Hon.
Mangami; Hon. Mapiki; Hon. Maridadi; Hon. Mashange; Hon.
Matambanadzo; Hon. Mawere; Hon. N. Mguni; Hon. Mhona; Hon. Mpariwa; Hon. B. Mpofu; Hon. Mudyiwa; Hon. Mufunga; Hon.
Mukwangwariwa; Hon. Musanhi; Hon. D.M. Ndlovu; Hon. Ndoro;
Hon. Nduna; Hon. Rungani; Hon. Shongedza; Hon. D.S. Sibanda;
Hon. D.P. Sibanda and Hon. Toffa.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 15th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
POSTPONEMENT OF THE CAPACITY BUILDING
WORKSHOP ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS (SDGS)
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that the Capacity Building Workshop for the Thematic Committee on
Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), where all Chairpersons of Portfolio, Thematic Committees and Whips for parties have been invited, has been postponed to next week from the 23rd to 26th June.
POINT OF PRIVILEGE
STANDING ORDERS NUMBER 63 AND 191
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Mine is a point of privilege and I wish to place it before you and the House, in terms of two Standing Orders, Standing Order 63 and also Standing Order 191. In particular, I would have wanted, circumstances permitting, to actually have our Ministers to be present but I understand that they may still be on their way. That as it may, Hon. Speaker, I hope you are going to take it for the appropriate suggestion and recommendation I am giving.
Standing Order 63, in terms of the accountability of Vice President and Ministers, if you go to sub-rule (1), it speaks to issues of the Constitution Section 107 (2), that Ministers and Vice Presidents must attend Parliament and Parliamentary Committees to answer questions. What I am focusing on is sub-rule (2) which speaks to issues of a Minister being mandated as an obligation to respond to a committee report within ten days, failure of which shall constitute contempt of
Parliament, after having been notified of the report.
I am saying this because we have done a lot of reports as
Parliament in our various Portfolio Committees. A case in point is what was done in agriculture, a powerful report, but nothing has been done to respond to that report. There was one yesterday on Health which was also a very powerful report. We also did a report on Home Affairs and there was one on ICTs, I could go on and on. There has not been a response from the Ministers in terms of our Standing Rules.
Hon. Speaker Sir, what I am saying is that we should take note of this because within 10 days, Ministers are supposed to respond to our reports, not for purposes of just being excited by the voice of the Minister, it is something that has to be done in terms of our rules so that we are able to give sufficient effect to the oversight function of Parliament. Not only that Hon. Speaker Sir, I also want to direct your attention to Standing Order Number 191, which is very important.
In terms of the obligation of the Speaker, on 191, ‘the Speaker shall require, ‘shall’ is preemptory, it means ‘must,’ there is no choice or election, it is an obligation – shall require the Vice President or Minister to give a written explanation to the House where he or she –but in most cases I think it is he, because the she’s have been doing very well – [Laughter] – where he/she fails to lay upon the table of the House, the annual report, financial statements of public entities or constitutional entity and the audit report on those statements in accordance with
Section 15 of the Public Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19).
On Standing Orders 192, ‘every Vice President or Minister shall lay before the National Assembly, a report of disciplinary action against an Accounting Officer and Accounting authority or other person in terms of Section 87 of the Public Finance Management Act. I am placing this before the House because we have had circumstances where certain Accounting Officers have behaved in a manner that is less than accountable. We understand that there is supposed to have been some disciplinary action taken but we have not received any report.
As Parliament, may we place our Ministers on notice, that if they are not going to comply with what is in our statutes, we are going to invoke what we have as instruments to ensure that our Ministers perform indeed and justify why we are paying them handsomely using the tax-payer’s money – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – it is very important. They are driving very nice cars. I am saying so because I was once a Minister – [Laughter] – I know what I am talking about. They must account for what they are doing. We need to make sure that we write to them on these specific then if they continue on their paths, we then have to invoke what the Standing Order requires. Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir.
Hon. Chinotimba having stood up to speak and an Hon. Member having asked him to sit down.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. There is no need to raise emotions. I was going to say to Hon. Chinotimba, before you rise, the Chair must respond to the point of order on Privilege. I want to say to Hon. Chamisa, his observations are very appropriate and correct in terms of our Constitution and our Standing Orders. I must also say that he raised the point of privilege like a prophet and he did not know that he was a prophet. This is because as Administration of Parliament, we have started an audit of Hon. Ministers who were due or are due to respond to not only reports but also motions raised by the Hon. Members before the mover can wind up the motion. This has not been happening. The audit that we have started has already indicated that there are half a dozen Ministers whom we have written to personally, to say they must come before Parliament, particularly here in the National Assembly to comply with the provisions stated by Hon. Chamisa. We want to assure the House that this will be done assiduously to ensure that the Hon.
Ministers do respond.
We have also gone further as to write to the Chief Secretary asking the Permanent Secretary to work very closely with Hon. Ministers to assist them so that they can respond to their obligations. We do so, not only in terms of what Hon. Chamisa has stated or quoted in so far as the Standing Orders are concerned but also in terms of what the Constitution states. In terms of Section 119 of our Constitution, Parliament must protect the Constitution without fear or favour and the State and all its agencies must respond to the provisions of the Constitution without fail. We are going to ensure that the audit is completed expeditiously and the Hon. Ministers come before this Honourable House to respond accordingly to the motions as well as to the Committee Reports.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I did not want to debate but I wish to debate on the Privileges of Parliament. There was a question which I asked during your presence and I also held a meeting with the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The question was that there are some Members of Parliament who were given red passports of privileges and some were not given. When you look at the Parliament of
South Africa even Hon. Malema was issued a red passport. If you visit Europe, for the reason that one is a Member of Parliament, they are issued with diplomatic passports. However, I have heard that there are a selected few who have been given that privilege. I am not feeling well, I just stood up, that is why today you hear that my speech is not as vibrant as I use to be. We need clarification on that. I would like to go and seek medical attention and what happens because of the kind of passport we have. We are not accorded that privilege. We are stopped and searched at every roadblock, yet I was voted into this position by my constituents.
Why then should I be denigrated? I have also been told that the chairmen of portfolio committees and other members of your circle are regarded as Hon. MPs and accorded that privilege. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am not only an MP but I am also a veteran leader of commendable background.
When I look back at myself, I went to Romania for training and I was given that diplomatic passport with privileges to go with. I went to Bucharest and many other places and I was given that honour and aura but now that I am an elected MP who fought for the freedom of his country, I am discriminated against. I am not given the privilege to hold a diplomatic passport and that really pains me. This may force me to give up my seat and just go and be an ordinary peasant in my rural home.
I asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs about the issue of the diplomatic passport and his response was; “the diplomatic passport does not concern me but it is up to the Speaker who is the one who selects who should get that privilege and who should be denied.” Are you then asking us to go back to the people and ask them to vote for people who are favourites because as it is, we are inconsequential or nonentities? I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE HON SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. In
response to your question Hon. Chinotimba, I will start by apologizing and say to you; as Hon Chinotimba, you are not feeling well and I sympathise with you, but you had that urge to come and seek clarification regarding the diplomatic passports. I salute you for that. First and foremost, the Hon. Speaker does not have the prerogative on the issuance of passports. Passports emanate from the Registrar
General’s Office, on the recommendation of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Regarding the issuance of diplomatic passports, I did write to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the request was for all MPs to be issued with diplomatic passports. The reason was for our MPs not to have problems whenever they travel around the globe. They should get that respect which is due to them but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs denied this request. I then went and discussed the issue with the Leader of the House, the Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa, trying to look for ways to accord all MPs diplomatic passports. We agreed that we had to approach the Head of State on this issue. The Head of State asked for names, especially of MPs who attend statutory meetings at IPU, SADCPF etcetera. We put those names down and handed them over to His Excellency, the President. Therefore, that is work-in- progress.
Your request has been heard and another meeting will be held with the Leader of the House, Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa. We look forward to seeing your issue solved amicably because as far as we know, we are equal Members of Parliament and we should have the same privileges. No one is above the other, we are all the same. His Excellency will give us a response. So, I am pleading with you Hon.
Members to give us time to work on this issue. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: My follow-up question is that the
Leader of the House Vice President, Hon. Mnangagwa is in the House and you, as the Speaker are also here in the same House. We may find ourselves trying to digress from issues. That is why I specifically mentioned that last week you were not there and we asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs about the diplomatic passports and that is when the
Minister gave his response that it was not his responsibility but the Speaker’s responsibility.
As far as I know, I do not want you to be involved in this mudslinging and apportioning of blame. In this country, we have a lot of mud-slinging and whosoever has a problem or has messed up tries to apportion the blame on other people and quickly address the Vice
President on their issue. What we know however is that, Ministers are
MPs who are elected to be Ministers through the President’s prerogative. Mr. Speaker Sir, we would not want to have somebody who, when elected to be a Minister then tends to look down upon peers. When you even look at the working conditions of a Minister and an MP, MPs may be better than the Minister. My request is for you to enlighten us where the Ministers are apportioning blame on you, yet you are blameless.
When I discussed that, I was told that I was going to tarnish your image.
It really pains me that I should direct such questions to the Vice
President of the country. As Members of Parliament, we have the privilege of interacting with the Vice President. We have a machine which produces 10 000 passports per minute – [HON. MEMBERS:
Hear, hear.] – So, where is the problem in issuing all the Members of Parliament the diplomatic passports?
Therefore, in as far as I am concerned; there is no reason for the Minister of Foreign Affairs to ask for few names to work on. I would understand, if it was in the past when we had slow machines but Government has allocated equipment to Home Affairs which is able to produce 10 000 passports in ten minutes. So, where is the problem? I sympathise with you Mr. Speaker, there is mudslinging, people are trying to tarnish your name. Unfortunately, the Minister of Foreign Affairs is not in, I would have asked him this question because I have a feeling, he lied to us.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as Hon. Members, why should we denied some privileges? We do not have diplomatic passports; we do not have all those other privileges. Where did we go wrong? I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Chinotimba we have a saying that whenever there is something being said, somebody will know about it. About mud-slinging, as long as you are a leader, whatever goes wrong, there is mud-slinging and you are the victim but as leaders when there is that problem which is flung at you, all you do is to rectify whatever problems could be arising. I am glad the Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa is here and I will give him chance to respond.
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I will start by supporting what has been said by the Speaker that he wrote a letter asking that all Members of Parliament be issued with diplomatic passports. His argument was that Members travel to different parts of the world. What happens is, whenever they get to the airports or to other areas, all Members of
Parliament from other countries are given that dignified respect but Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe are searched and frisked, which is very bad. The Minister then said there are going to be a few who are going to be given those diplomatic passports because in the last Parliament, we had some Ministers who were given those diplomatic passports which will last for five years. Therefore, they have them and that limits the number of people to access that.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the Leader of the Opposition can have the passport renewed. Hence, having received that response, the Speaker then asked me to prepare for a meeting with the President on the issue and I facilitated that. He said, we have heard the response given by the Executive on the issuance of diplomatic passports, but he then asked for special dispensation for Members of Parliament, who attend different Parliamentary forums in other countries. I personally went to His
Excellency accompanied by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The President denied that privilege. We said, well, let us let things cool down and if things cool down, there could be a chance of attaining that.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we then decided to reduce the number of people and go with the Chairpersons. We then approach His Excellency on the issue. We said, these people travel a lot around the globe on business, please give them that diplomatic passport. After a long discussion, the
President agreed and he said those few selected should be given and
Hon. Mumbengegwi was advised to give those diplomatic passports. The Speaker then said, now that we have these few people who have been given the passports, let us give the President time, because we cannot just go to him after such a short period. I said Mr. Speaker, I think you have turned too much heat on me, let us give it a rest. So, I am waiting for the Speaker to give me time so that we come and resuscitate the issuance of diplomatic passports to Members of
Parliament.
*HON. MURAI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. We have had the response from the Leader of the House Hon. Mnangagwa on the issuance of diplomatic passports. What is worrying me is why were a few selected, yet as Members of Parliament we operate under the same conditions of service? I feel we should be treated equally because we are all Members of Parliament in the same Parliament.
*THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Hon. Members, let me tell you the truth on this
matter and this is a fact. Whether you like it or not, it does not matter. A diplomatic passport is not a right, we should be aware of that. There is nowhere in our Constitution or wherever, where it is said a Member of Parliament should be given a diplomatic passport. It is not a right but it is a privilege.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, you have heard it for yourselves, but what Mr. Chinotimba has said, should be pursued. I remember when we were youngsters, we would go and court a lady and that lady would look down upon you, shout at you and at times hit you but we would never give up. We would go on courting that lady until she felt that I am authentic and agrees to me. I am therefore saying, let us not tire. We know His Excellency, our President is a man of his word and he will give an ear to our request. We know we will win. The issue which has been raised by Hon. Chinotimba, we will pass it on to him.
Whatever response we will receive, we will inform you.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it a point of privilege or what?
HON. MUNENGAMI: It is a …
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is the order you are quoting? HON. MUNENGAMI: Hon. Speaker, I think we are now approaching …
*THE HON. SPEAKER: “Aiwa tinzwisisei, tererai example yaHon. Chamisa.”
HON. MUNENGAMI: I think it is in terms of my privileges as a Member of Parliament. In fact, why I am failing to quote the point of order is the reason why I want to ask. Hon. Speaker, we are now approaching the last quarter of the year and surely even for you Hon.
Speaker to ask me what the point of order is when you know very well that we do not have the Standing Orders and Rules. Those books which we are supposed to be …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order.
HON. MUNENGAMI: That is the reason why I wanted to raise that issue. I wanted to give you an example of what happened yesterday with regards to issues of Ministers. We do not even know how many times we are supposed to be asking questions when the Minister presents a Ministerial Statement. Yesterday, only two or three Members of
Parliament were allowed to ask the Minister. Immediately after that, the
Minister walked away. So, we want to know according to the Standing Orders and Rules how many times we are supposed to ask and all these other issues. Thank you Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Firstly, let me respond by saying, you
have contradicted yourself that there are no Standing Orders. If they were not there, Hon. Chamisa would not have quoted the Standing Rules – [AN HON. MEMBER: He is a member of the Standing Rules and
Orders Committee.] – Order, if you want a reply from the Chair, you must listen. So, the Standing Orders substantially remain very effective.
As to what happened yesterday, I will have to enquire from Hon. Marumahoko and the Clerks at the Table and get into the matter then I will be able to give you a ruling tomorrow.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MANGAMI: Mr. Speaker Sir, my question is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. How far have you gone in the setting up of the National Competitiveness Commission?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I
would like to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question. Cabinet has now approved the draft Bill which should be coming to Parliament shortly. It has gone back just for clean up and the Bill will be tabled before Parliament.
HON. MANGAMI: Mr. Speaker, do we still need the National
Competitiveness Commission when we have got the Tariff
Commission? How different are they?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That should have been your first question in terms of sequence. It is going to be in place and you were answered; now you want to go backwards. No, we cannot allow that.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is
directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. What is the Government policy on schools in rural areas where there is one teacher to 600 pupils? Some schools are even closing down because there are no teachers.
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): On the Government policy
regarding the proportion of learners and teachers, my Ministry is given permission to recruit teachers whenever there is concurrence of the Treasury and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. This is because the Civil Service Commission is responsible for recruiting teachers as they do with all other civil servants. So, if there is concurrence between Treasury and the employing Ministry, we can recruit according to what has been stated by the two Ministries and we start recruiting the necessary teachers. When we recruit teachers as the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, we hand them over to the Commission for appointment.
As a Ministry, we look forward to continually opening schools and not close them down. We do not expect ourselves to employ more teachers than can be paid by the Treasury. If teachers are recruited without concurrence of Treasury, that is when you have situations where some teachers go for months without being paid. I did tell this House that the fact that we take a certain number of teachers, the directive was given at the beginning of the second term. That is when we were told that we are supposed to recruit teachers and headmasters and my approximate number is 130 000. From that period, we were working hard on the recruitment of teachers so that these teachers would be employed in resettlement areas, rural areas and other areas that have teacher shortages. I am sure Hon. Mapiki has asked this question looking at particular areas such as farming and rural areas.
*HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question is, you have said that there should be concurrence of Ministries for recruitment. How long does it take for these Ministries to hold a meeting, agree and recruit teachers so as to alleviate the problem faced by these rural schools and learners?
*HON. DR. DOKORA: I hear what the Honourable Member is
saying. He is emotional about this issue because he is the one who is living in this situation. In the recruitment policy, we also look at the status of the school whether it is a satellite school or it is a registered school. How many learners the school has, all this is put together so that an analysis is held on the quantum of teachers which should be recruited into that place, hence I cannot say we need so many years.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: The supplementary question by
Honourable Mapiki is, can you give a timeframe as to how long it takes
Government departments involved to resolve the problem.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Whatever it is we do depends on
Treasury and the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social
Services. Whenever these discussions are held, we have to take into consideration that these people have to be paid a salary. There was a time towards the end of last year when we were told of ghost teachers who were said to be in my Ministry, hence avoiding getting into the same problem, there should be concurrence between my Ministry, Treasury and the Public Service Commission. Let me say that this process can only be quickened if you were to go and campaign for the removal of sanctions so that there is cash flow to pay these teachers.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. In the rural areas where we stay, there is a programme called ‘Food for Work’ which was introduced by Government. People work for four hours a day from Monday to
Friday for 15 days a month. At the end of the month, they are given a 50kg bag of maize. We have said these people are vulnerable and some of them are elderly and sick. Are we asking this same person to go and labour in adverse weather conditions only to earn 50kgs? Is that a fact? *THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG
MATANGAIDZE): Let me give an explanation on how the ‘Food for Work’ programme operates. Firstly, there is an assessment which is held to establish the vulnerable groups and in this case there are people who are already in our registers and receiving food. At the beginning of the year, His Excellency declared a state of disaster because of the El Nino induced drought, we have had another assessment which has established more vulnerable people. Some of these people who were affected by the drought are able-bodied and very capable people. What is happening is that those people who were already receiving food because they were recorded in the first register, continue receiving their food, but those who are partaking the Food for Work programme are able bodied people who have only been disadvantaged because of the El Nino induced drought hence can work for their food.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: There are circumstances where after people have worked under the Food for Work programme when it comes to their receipt of the maize that they are supposed to be allocated, they are again required to pay a certain amount of money as transport cost. Is that Government policy and what happens if that able-bodied person who has worked does not have the money to pay for the transport cost?
Do they lose the maize that they would have worked for?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: I do admit that when we
introduced this programme, we had problems in ferrying the food and we asked local leaders to help in transporting the food to the needy people but Government has now introduced a new system whereby transport is supplied by DDF and the army trucks to ferry this food. My request is that if we have any areas where people are still being asked to pay for transport, please give us the details so that we can investigate.
HON. MHONA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Services. What is Government’s policy in liaison with the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to ensure that buildings and amenities to which the public has access to, are accessible to persons living with disabilities as enshrined in our Constitution under Section 22 (4) so that we mitigate the risk of such people being abused in the name of help especially women living with disabilities.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. Speaker, like the Hon. Member of Parliament is saying, it is very clear that the statutes which are there for building cater for the disabled people. The implementation of that policy comes in with the public works under the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
So I would rather they direct that question to the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing on the implementation of laid down statutes on the standards of buildings to cater for the vulnerable.
HON. T. KHUMALO: My question was meant to be addressed to the Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology
Development but in his absence or his deputy, I will address it to Minister Dokora. I think he also might respond and if that fails, could the Hon. Vice President please help.
Government has come with cadetship schemes for vulnerable students that are unable to pay their fees and it has come that as Government, you have not met your obligation of meeting the payment of fees for cadetship students. Now the current scenario in our universities especially, is that if you do not pay your fees, the Minister here confirmed that everybody that has not paid fees will write.
Sadly, these students are unable to access their results due to nonpayment of fees because Government has not paid fees under the cadetship scheme and those students are going to be denied their results.
Why are you also denying those that have failed to pay, while as
Government you did not pay under the cadetship scheme? What is Government policy here vis-a-vis these students accessing their results whether they supplement or go forward?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, please
address the Chair.
THE HON. VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Mr. Speaker Sir, these are specific issues, not a question of policy. I think these are specific issues which require a detailed answer from the appropriate Ministry to state why the issues raised by the Hon. Member are in existence. I do not think it is a question of policy but a question of administrative problems that may be in existence. So I request that the Hon. Member, in the absence of the
Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education Science and Technology Development, have the question put in writing. I thank you.
*HON. MAKONYA: My question is directed to the Deputy
Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Mguni. Deputy Minister, is it
Government policy that when I get to a roadblock with a faulty car, I am directed to go to the nearest police station. The arresting police officer drives my car and refuses to show me his licence considering the fact that he is not covered by my insurance. Is it Government policy that a police officer drives my car because my car has a problem or there is a problem on me?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, let me explain to the Hon. Member of Parliament what is proper. The police have the right to detain a vehicle for not more than 24hrs if the vehicle is found to be faulty. If there is a fine that the driver has to pay and it is less than $20.00, then the driver can pay a spot fine. But if the car has to be detained in a safe place like a Police Station, it has to be driven by the owner to the Police Station, park it and be satisfied that it is safe, that is according to Government policy. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: My question is directed to the Minister of Public
Service, Labour and Social Services. I preface my question as follows: in the advent of the establishment of the National Building Society Bank. I am aware that in a lot of towns, NSSA has stands, in particular in Chegutu West Constituency, it has 300 ha of land.
What is Government policy regarding those stands that NSSA has, cognizant of the establishment of National Building Society Bank vis-avis those low income earners that are in the constituencies as I have mentioned. Chegutu is in a 40 square kilometer radius I shudder to think how many hectares Harare has. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order I thought you had asked the
question already.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir, I want to thank the Hon. Member for his very important question. Yes, NSSA launched a National Building Society. The purpose of the Building Society is to enable low income earners to afford reasonable housing at affordable interest rates. The Building Society is open to any worker who is working in Zimbabwe. They have to go through the necessary vetting processes.
Regarding the land which NSSA has in various parts of the country, I would like to assure the Hon. Member that we just launched in Harare and Bulawayo. We will be rolling out into the provinces. So
NSSA will be looking at all the land available to be handed over to the National Building Society so that we can ensure that what we intend to achieve, that is housing delivery to the less privileged is achieved. So in due course, we will be moving into the provinces to establish all the land and start the process. It is a process and not something that will happen overnight. We are aware that we have land in your constituency Hon.
Member. I thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce. It is emanating from disturbing media reports which alleged that she had said the First Lady Dr. Amai Grace Mugabe is actually donating goods which have been confisticated from ZIMRA. Can she confirm if it is a
Government policy?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I am not aware of any statement that I issued like that. If you are talking of media, I am not sure whether that was not meant to be malicious. Thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question
is directed to the Minister of Public Service Labour and Social Services. Hon. Minister, what is the Government policy as regards the payment of allowances to student teachers. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. MUPFUMIRA): Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question.
However, I am unable to answer her question because it relates to the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education. What I can recall is that through the rationalisation and civil service audit we are reviewing all allowances including those for student teachers. We are still to come up with a reasonable allowance for the student teachers. I thank you.
HON. KWARAMBA: Hon. Minister, I am asking this question because you find that teachers at teachers’ colleges are being paid allowances but those who are at universities, when they go for teaching practice, they are not given anything.
HON. MUPFUMIRA: Thank you Madam Speaker. As I said, the Ministry is reviewing this through the civil service audit. We would want to standardise and rationalise all allowances. We are very much aware of the fact that students from the university are not given any allowances, hence we are looking at reviewing the allowances given to student teachers downwards and we will come up with a position shortly. Thank you.
HON. J. MHLANGA: Point of order, Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no point of order – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Members, administrations are different. I am not given instruction. I can choose whom I need to. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes I choose what I want to do – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
– That is your problem.
+HON. N. NDLOVU: That is not a problem, it is just a mistake, it is not a problem. Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Vice President Hon. Mnangagwa. What is the policy if there is somebody who does not want to work with the Government and the Government promises that it will unleash the gukurahundi forces on that perceived adversary?
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THE MINISTER OF
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I did not understand the question if she can repeat the last part of the question.
+HON. N. NDLOVU: My question was, is it true that if Government has somebody who wants to contest or oppose it then it promises hell and something very difficult on their lives?
*HON. MNANGAGWA: That is not Government policy. Government does not unleash terror on any people of Zimbabwe. Please you may oppose Government and say whatever you want. Your
Government is a supportive Government. I thank you
+HON. N. NDLOVU: The reason why I am asking this question is that His Excellency, in his address to the Central Committee, the President promised the war veterans who were working against him that they were going to suffer and have the gukurahundi forces striking on them.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Fortunately, when that statement was
said, I was present at the Central Committee and you were not there.
*HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. May the Vice President use a proper honorific when addressing another Member of Parliament instead of simply saying ‘you’?
*HON. MNANGAGWA: I was present when the President issued that statement and I heard what he was saying and you were not there. You only heard from rumours and the press. What you are saying is not true. That is not what the President said. The President did not say such a statement. What is pleasing is that this was a domestic affair but you people on the opposition MDC-T are interested in what goes on at the
ZANU PF private meetings.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I think we are
wasting time making a lot of noise. That supplementary question is the last one on this question.
HON. MUNENGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Vice President Hon. Mnangagwa. My question is whilst we admit that he was present and we were absent, it means that he agrees with us that what we watch on television is not true because these things were said out on televisions and newspapers and is viewed by everyone.
Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, that is not a
question, it is a recommendation. Can we proceed please.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
question is directed to the Leader of the House. I want to ask how far the Government has progressed towards the issue of ZISCO Steel. The fact that there is a loan which was acquired and yet there are outstanding salaries of workers who are suffering in terms of non-payment of school fees for their children. Their properties have been sold to recover their debt. So, I am asking what progress the Government has made so far in terms of paying the outstanding salaries and how is it going to be done, in installments or once off? Thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member asking the question and myself come from ZISCO Steel. The only problem that is there is that, the issue to do with progress is not policy, it is administrative. We have a Minister of Industry and Commerce who is responsible for issues of progress. If one is working, they expect to receive their salary at the end of each month, there is no need to ask whether workers should be paid or not.
What I think the Hon. Member is thinking, which I am also thinking because we live together is that; when is this issue going to be resolved? There are people who are supposed to answer that question because Government has Ministries. He should have asked the question through writing so that he will be given a detailed answer as to the progress being referred to because it very important. Thank you.
HON. KAUNDIKIZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprises and Cooperative Development, Hon. Nyoni. My question is what is Government policy on people who paid their monies towards housing cooperatives for the past 10 years and have not received any places of residence and no audits were done on the people who received those monies? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM
ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (HON.
NYONI): Thank you Madam Speaker. That is a very important question. Cooperatives are not supposed to pay money to anybody. When cooperatives are formed, they are supposed to pay money to themselves because they are, according to the law, an independent entity. They must pay the money to themselves and they must be accountable to their members, supervised by the Ministry. If any cooperative paid money to none other than their cooperative structure, it is them to blame because they are not supposed to do that. I would like to advise the Hon. Member to advise those cooperatives that they should try and correct it themselves and stop paying money to people who are not legally supposed to receive their funds. Thank you.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My supplementary question Hon. Minister
Nyoni is that, for the past 10 or so years, we have had this challenge across the country and people have suffered as a result. As a Ministry, what systems are you putting in place to make sure that we will not have a continuation of this challenge since the down-trodden person is the one who is suffering most and many a time it is purely out of ignorance, yet it is not a privilege for them to be ignorant? I thank you.
HON. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like the
Hon. Member to be specific. If there are any specific cases where cooperatives have been cheated by outsiders or within their structures, the Ministry has a department that assists to realign those people within the laws. However, let me say that, having recognised that a lot of cooperatives are doing things out of ignorance, my Ministry has put in place training for cooperatives. Before we register any cooperative, we train them first and after registration we follow up and also train them. If there are mistakes that were made before then, the Ministry will be happy to receive those complaints and guide the cooperatives accordingly. Thank you.
*HON. MACHINGAUTA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My
supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that; on the issue of housing cooperatives, at what stage are title deeds issued? I am asking this because there are many who pass on before they are issued their title deeds and the deceased’s children have the stands or houses confiscated from them. Thank you.
HON. NYONI: Thank you very much. According to the Act, when you form a housing cooperative, you will be so many in number and you need to build the houses for every member until each of the members has a similar structure according to your agreement.
Thereafter, you approach the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing to apply for your title deeds. However, it has happened that, while people will be building, disputes happen and cooperatives start splitting. Let me inform the Hon. Member that when I took over the Ministry, there were about 68 disputes and we have been able to solve most of those except for seven within Harare only. So, those kinds of problems happen and when they are brought to our attention we try and solve them. No individual will get their title deeds until all the cooperative members have agreed that they have reached a stage where all of them can satisfactorily get title deeds equally. Thank you.
HON. MANGAMI: Hon. Minister, may we also know what
happens to those cooperatives which continue to enroll members when they do not have land. How does the Ministry deal with such because members of the public will not be aware that the cooperatives will not be having land. They continue to collect money when land is not there.
HON. NYONI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The issue of land is the responsibility of the Ministry of Local Government. Co-operatives are an independent entity according to the law and they have a responsibility as co-operatives. All we can do as a Ministry of SMEs and Co-operatives is to support them. They have a responsibility to go to the Ministry of Local Government and discuss the issue of land. I think Minister Kasukuwere was very clear that what he was dealing with were the land barons and there are housing co-operatives that are continuing to build houses. He is not giving land to those co-operatives that have been found wanting in terms of following the laws of the land.
I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON.
DEPUTY SPEAKER, in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
COMENCEMENT OF VETTING FOR FORMER POLITICAL
DETAINEES
- HON. CHITURA asked the Minister of Welfare Services for War Veterans, War Collaborators, Former Political Detainees and Restrictees to inform the House on when vetting for detainees who were not previously vetted before would take place.
THE MINISTER OF WELFARE SERVICES FOR WAR VETERANS, WAR COLLABORATORS, FORMER POLITICAL DETAINEES AND RESTRICTEES, (HON. COL. RTD.
DUBE):Madam Speaker, and Members of this august House, I want to begin by expressing my profound gratitude to Hon. Chitura, who is a proportional representation member for Manicaland Province, for raising the question concerning the vetting of ex-political detainees who were previously not vetted.
I wish to advise that the vetting of this category of veterans of the liberation struggle is a continuous administrative function of my Ministry.
We vet and verify every case on its merits. It follows that if the Hon. Member is aware of specific cases of ex-detainees who have not yet been vetted, she may kindly refer these to the Vetting Inspectorate and
Investigations Directorate of the Ministry for necessary attention.
This august House may be pleased to know that my Ministry is at an advanced stage of aligning our laws to the new Constitution of
Zimbabwe (No.20) Act, 2013. My Ministry administers the War Veterans
Act, the Ex-Political Detainess and Restrictees Act, the National Heroes Act and the War Victims Compensation Act. This alignment will result in a single Act of Parliament covering all veterans of the liberation struggle, who are defined in the Constitution Sections 23 and 84, as those who fought, those who assisted the fighters and those who were detained for political reasons during the liberation struggle.
The new Act will also cover categories of veterans which fall under my Ministry’s jurisdiction but were previously excluded from the law. Specifically, we are talking about the nationalists, war collaborators and the former refugees, who you are calling non-combatant cadres in our legal drafting. To this end, we have already done the necessary consultative workshop and the principles of legislation have already been approved by Cabinet. The actual drafting started on 13th June, 2016 and we hope to have completed this by mid July, 2016 for onward processing through Cabinet and the Legislature for purposes of enactment.
Before I conclude, I also want to say a word or two on the vetting of war collaborators. There has been a lot of political statements and growing agitation about this issue. The legal position is that war collaborators cannot be vetted or registered before they are defined in law. Their vetting therefore has to wait until the current alignment of laws is completed. My Ministry estimates that for planning purposes, there could be around 200,000 war collaborators when their vetting is finally done. We also estimate that they could have 49,000 widows and 40,000 children who would be eligible for Government support. In drafting the law and the constitution, we are carrying out and are seriously looking at the range of benefits that could be legislated and the impact of such benefits on the fiscus and the tax payer.
Madam Speaker, I wish to emphasise that the phase of vetting collaborators will be a lot more difficult because it is very difficult after 36 years to tell who was a collaborator and who was not. If I ask this august House to say those who were collaborators, maybe only less than
50 will remain seated.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker, we have
witnessed vilification, denigration, assault on the integrity of those that participated in the liberation of this country. As a Ministry and as part and parcel of your responsibility, what are you doing as a policy measure to make sure that all those who participated in the liberation struggle are respected?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that question
is not coming from the original question. The original question is talking about the vetting. Hon. Minister, do not answer that question.
HON. SARUWAKA: My supplementary question to the Minister
is, in light of the last section where he clearly indicated that it is practically impossible to vet the war collaborators, what is the rationale for him to try and go ahead with the exercise? Is it not prudent that he comes out clear and just make a statement that it is not going to happen. He has clearly indicated that it is going to be cumbersome and almost impossible.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, it is only that I let the Hon. Minister explain what he was saying otherwise the question was, when is he going to effect the vetting only. All the explanations were coming but because he is a Minister, I could not stop him. Your questions are emanating from the explanations not from the original question. The question is, when are you going to vet those who were not vetted. I will not allow the Minister to answer questions emanating from explanations.
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker. You are truly 100% correct in answering the question, but it is like when the Minister responds to the question, it is the duty of us as Members of Parliament to then ask questions with regard to the responses. So, this is actually what we are trying to, to respond to the answer.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand what you are
trying to say but it is my duty as the Presiding Officer – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Madii kumumisa?] – To listen to the responses. I have to guide you – [HON. MUNENGAMI: You should have stopped him.] –
This is why I stopped him.
HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, in that case I think according to Parliamentary rules, if what he says is not on record, it must be expunged from the Hansard. It must be taken off because we want to ask questions depending on the answer that he has given but if that last part of his response is not going to be followed up, it must be expunged from the Hansard. Please give a ruling, from which point is it going to be expunged. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: From where he was saying –
if I start asking who is a war collaborator here – that was not supposed to be said in this House because the question was, when are you going to do the vetting of the collaborators only- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]. If you have something, you can put it in writing so that he can answer you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, in terms of Standing Order 61(2), the Vice President or Leader of the House may request that business be stood over until a Ministerial Statement is given. I so move.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
OFFICIAL OPENING OF THE 24TH SESSION OF THE JUNIOR
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE SCHEDULED FOR 18TH JUNE,
2016 IN SUPPORT OF THE DAY OF THE AFRICAN CHILD
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT, INDIGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT (HON. ZHUWAO):
Thank you Madam Speaker. On Saturday the 18th June, 2016….
HON. MUNENGAMI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
Before the Minister finishes his Ministerial Statement, I think I asked the Hon. Speaker, before you sat on the Chair that, can we know how many questions we are supposed to ask the Minister after his Ministerial
Statement, so that at least we become aware. Can you give us guidance?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I was here when the Speaker
gave you the answer. He said he was going to check with the one who was on the Chair and what happened, then he will give you the response – [HON. MUNENGAMI: I am talking on this one now.] – No, there is nothing like that.
THE MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDEGENISATION AND EMPOWERMENT (HON. ZHUWAO):
Thank you very much Madam Speaker. His Excellency, President R. G.
Mugabe will be the guest of honour at the Official Opening of the 24th
Session of the Junior Parliament of Zimbabwe at the Harare City Sports
Centre. The theme of the commemorations will be “Investing in
Children and Youth for an Empowered Society and a Growing Economy in order to Prevent Conflict and Crisis and Protect all Children’s
Rights”.
Zimbabwe has consistently held sessions of the Junior Parliament since 1992 as part of celebrating the day of the African child. The day of the African child Madam Speaker, came into being following a declaration by the African Union Heads of State as an important day in commemorating the 1976 protest by school children in Soweto, South Africa.
Madam Speaker, as Hon. Members are aware, on 16th June, 1976, students in Soweto, Johannesburg protested against an education system designed to further the purposes of the apartheid regime. The brutal response of the apartheid security agencies to unarmed student protests resulted in significant number of deaths. The 1976 protest contributed tremendously to the eventual collapse of the apartheid regime. This is why Madam Speaker in 1991, the African Union passed a resolution designated June 16 as a day for celebrating the African child.
Madam Speaker, the Junior Parliament of Zimbabwe is a platform for young people to organise themselves and come up with common goals for their development and convey their wishes to responsible authorities and get feedback on their activities. In order to capacitate the Junior Parliament, which is largely made up of young people of school going age, I appointed a Steering Committee of young people to put in place a blue print that addresses the aspirations of young people.
Madam Speaker, the Steering Committee members include the current Junior President, Samuel Nyirenda and his two Junior Vice
Presidents, Ottis Mashayanyika and Tatenda Maramba. The Steering Committee was mandated to develop a framework to guide and coordinate strategies for investing in the empowerment of youths through consultative processes involving several stages.
The Steering Committee is expected to have been concluded incorporating gathering the views of young people so that the outgoing
Junior President will present that draft to the incoming Junior President.
Madam Speaker, I want to inform Members of the House that Hon. Members are requested to support Junior Members of Parliament at this event. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, may I prefix my clarification by stating that about two or three months ago, I met a parent whose child was a Member of the Junior Parliament. Basically, what the child told me was that she felt the programme was literally wasting her child’s time. She made a number of observations, which give rise to my clarification. How exactly are you assisting the young people who are Junior Members of Parliament, not only in their supposed role but also in ensuring that they attain their aspirations? How is Government assisting the programme with resources? How is the Government assisting the Junior Parliamentarians in their own life needs? I thank you.
HON. ZHUWAO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for raising that question. The objective of the Junior Parliament and all other junior structures of governance is to assist young people to be able to understand the whole concept of democracy so that when they do eventually get to be Members of Parliament, they will be able to understand some of the roles and responsibilities that they have.
We hope as a nation that this will assist us in future parliaments to have Members of Parliament that do not unnecessarily raise points of order when it is not necessary Madam Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you. Investing in children and the youths is the theme of this year’s celebrations. Hon. Minister, I wish to know what is happening with the cadetship of students in various universities because this is part of investing in youths and empowering them. The cadetship programme has not received any funding from the
Government. Secondly …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, the Statement
as I understood it was talking about child parliamentarians and not students at universities.
HON. MARIDADI: Yes, and I will tell you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Would you please go along
with what has been said when the Statement was presented.
HON. MARIDADI: So, if that is the case, I withdraw.
HON. MANDIPAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker, I would need
some clarification from the Hon. Minister. Whilst we appreciate the activities of the Junior Parliament, I would want to find out whether his Ministry or Government cannot suggest other activities that can be done on the 16th June every year in remembrance of the history that you have given us of those children who were killed in Soweto apart from the Junior Parliament. Can we have any other activities that have some relevance or bearing to the event of the 16th June, 1991 apart from the Junior Parliament. I thank you.
HON. ZHUWAO: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank the Hon. Member for that question. In particular for this year Madam Speaker, on the actual day of the African child on the 16th June, we will have a commemoration not only of the children that lost their lives in Soweto 40 years ago but together with the Zimbabwe Youth Council and the Zimbabwe Traffic Safety Board, we also commemorate and try and highlight on the issue of children who are losing their lives in road traffic accidents, with specific reference to the young lady from Girls High School who recently lost her life. Thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also need to seek clarification from what the Hon. Minister has just said. He was proposing that we have a commemoration in relation to the massacre that happened to the children around the month of June in South Africa. I am also proposing to the Minister that we also commemorate our own sons and daughters of Zimbabwe who were murdered during the 27th
June, 2008 run up to the elections.
HON. NDUNA: Minister, I want to applaud you first and foremost, for your Statement and also for your response in terms of the RTA on the Traffic Safety Council that you have spoken about on the conscientisation of those kids that are utilising the roads, in particular where we have children losing their lives needlessly. Perpetrators of these injustices, in particular those that are said to have indulged in culpable homicide go scot free after the offence and only go to court after a long period of time. My clarification however borders on your statement of investing in the future. We came to Parliament and we asked vociferously and on numerous times for Government to indulge in feeding schemes for children at primary level. May you, as you invest in the future of these kids, also ventilate on that point of primary school feeding where we are, where we have come from, and the future of such a scheme so that our children in particular those that walk long distances can be fed at school so that we have a future for these children which is second to none in their education system.
HON. ZHUWAO: I acknowledge the question that has just come from the Honourable Member and wish to reiterate that one of the key objectives of holding a Junior Parliament is to also allow the young Members of Parliament to articulate for themselves their wishes and aspirations. So those are some of the wishes and aspirations that will be articulated by the Junior Members in the presence of the Executive. I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I was just going to suggest to the
Minister that when he gave the narrative of how this day was founded, here in Zimbabwe we have instances of our own history which can actually be passed on to our children. For example, St. Alberts School in 1971 – an entire school headed for the Mozambican border to join the war. They were followed by the Rhodesian Forces and some of them were killed during that process. Those are some of the things that we need to educate our youth on -if you can enter into a research programme.
There is also the University of Rhodesia when we had Alois Mangwende and Witness Mangwende who were then restricted from leaving Salisbury and travel for not more than 30km simply because they were taking anti-colonialist activity at the University of Rhodesia. They then had to flee into the diaspora and went to school while they were actually in exile. Some of those things need to be passed on to our children because we have a very rich history. I for one was expelled from school in 1971 for demonstrating against the then Minister of Education, A. P. Smith. By the end of the day we have students who were victimised in this country whose history has to be passed on. Let us research and enrich what we are going to pass on to our children when we meet at such gatherings. I am going to attend anyway. I thank you.
HON. ZHUWAO: I wish to applaud the Honourable Member for
raising those issues and it is specifically for this purpose that we convene the Junior Parliament so that our Junior Members of Parliament together with all the other young children are also made aware of not only our history as Africans but more particularly our history as
Zimbabweans. I thank the Honourable Member.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I want to say that I am very passionate about young people and I am passionate about grooming of leadership and therefore that is why you find I will seek more and more clarification. Would you say that the intended objectives of that programme are being met since it was introduced in the country? Secondly, what tangible activities besides these official gatherings, are being done to groom these youths into good leaders of tomorrow.
Remember my first time when I was clarifying, I indicated that one parent said that it is a useless programme that is wasting time for their children. How are you incentivising the youths who are participating in these programmes?
HON. ZHUWAO: I wish to thank the Honourable Member for his
very progressive comments and suggestions. I want to point out that his very first comment in itself provides clues to his last questions in terms of incentivising young people because his first comment talks about the programme as a programme that grooms leaders. It is a leadership development programme that is meant to be able to assist young people to be the future leaders of tomorrow.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I just want to ask the Minister if he can
explain to this House the selection criteria which they use in as far as selecting children from different provinces is concerned. Secondly, we want to know how these children will be accommodated.
HON. ZHUWAO: I wish to acknowledge the Honourable
Member for his question and his constant quest to be educated. The process that is used for the selection of Junior Members of Parliament is a process that is run by the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education where the young people are given a theme around which they would debate and they are selected on a constituency basis.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are now reverting back to
Question With Notice.
TRAINING OF INDIGENOUS PERSONNEL IN DIAMOND
CUTTING AND POLISHING
- HON NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development to explain the progress that has been made so far in the training of indigenous personnel in diamond cutting and polishing as part of the drive towards value addition and beneficiation.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. W. CHIDHAKWA): Sometime last year,
the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development proposed to Government the introduction of a package of incentives to encourage companies that may want to train Zimbabweans who go into value addition of diamonds. As a result of that, a Chinese company has since come and it has recruited some 25 students who will be in China for one year. Over the three years, they will train 300 Zimbabwean students in cutting, polishing, valuation of diamonds and this programme is being done jointly with our School of Mines and so aspects of the programme will also come from our School of Mines and a Department for diamond cutting valuation will be established at the School of Mines in
Bulawayo. I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: My supplementary question is, are the
Chinese the best trainers, bearing in mind the fact that one of their companies was responsible for the disappearance of $15 billion?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, this company that I refer
to is one of the largest value adding companies, not just in diamonds but also in platinum and gold jewellery. This company has over 2 000 retail outlets of jewellery in Asia and building another 2 000 stores through which they wish to distribute their jewellery. It is based in Hong Kong and has a very strong work ethic.
This however, does not mean that this is the only company. We are actually in negotiation with other companies that are willing to assist us with cutting and polishing to benefit from the package of incentives. Besides the training, the other thing that we wanted was access to markets, so we will approach those that we think will give us not just the training but access to markets for jewelry products once we start manufacturing.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Minister, is that programme not going to be compromised by some acts that have happened in your Ministry where you have appointed your Permanent Secretary to be chairperson of three Boards that are under your Ministry? Does that not violate the laws of the country?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: The Hon. Member wants this particular
item to the linked to the Boards but let me respond to that nevertheless. Minerals Marketing Company of Zimbabwe (MMCZ) as you very well know will be dissolved and made part of the Mining Exploration and Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe (MEMC).
A first reading of the Bill has already been made here and we are waiting for the second reading. We found it difficult to appoint a Board of Directors when at a material time it had expired to appoint a Board of Directors for an organisation that we were dissolving. We did not think that it made sense to call people and say, we are appointing you for three years. Then come back to them and say, however we may dissolve the organisation in six months and you may have to go home. We thought it was not necessary for us to do that as it would inconvenience members of the public who would have been appointed to such a Board.
We could also not appoint a Board of Directors for Marange Diamonds, as you very well know, for an organisation that we knew was going to be subsumed by the Zimbabwe Consolidated Diamond Company (ZCDC) as has happened now. We have appointed some members of the Board of Directors but we had a few problems with members of ZCDC. So once we finish, then the Secretary will obviously cease to be on any of the Boards of Directors. I hear you from a corporate governance point of view but from a purely practical point of view, we found it difficult to appoint substantive Board members when infact the organisations were transitory. I thank you.
HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Minister, thank you for the statement but I wish to draw your attention to the fact that once upon a time we had a diamond polishing center that was established in Zimbabwe but is now a white elephant. It sits so conspicuously along Lomagundi Road, on the right hand side; when you are driving to Chinhoyi there is a huge complex.
I used to sit in the Portfolio Committee of Mines and Mining Development and we once visited that complex. We were taken through the processes of how diamonds are going to be deposited into that complex, polished and the whole value chain. To date, there is grass growing taller than the building as it is a white elephant and nothing is happening there. We are talking of sending our children to Hong Kong to learn polishing and all that …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order,
order Hon. Member, could you just direct your question to the Minister?
HON. MARIDADI: Yes sure, there was a lot of money that was invested into that complex. What is happening to that complex and why has it been abandoned?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you
Hon. Maridadi for that supplementary question. The Diamond Value Addition Centre was established by private individuals. Naturally, our hope and expectation will be that the private individuals will continue to get financial resources from their financial institutions for the purposes of completing the facility.
As Government, we cannot go and interfere in their situation, neither can we take public money to give it to them to enable them to complete it. I am aware that the proprietors of the facility are keen, they have had legal problems around the legal proprietors but I am aware that the legal issues have now been resolved. I know that they will soon be getting back to the development of that facility. From a Government point of view, we will play the facilitative role that they need and give them the assurance that we will support them.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question … THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker, I am the originator of this question and I was thinking that if you allow me, I should be done in a minute.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may proceed.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for your indulgence Mr. Speaker. I need to know at what cost will it be to train our beneficiators of the diamonds as you have alluded that we are sending some to China, what cost will this have to Government? I am aware also that you said this is in partnership with our Ministry of Mines and Mining Development and the School of Mines in Bulawayo.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Hon. Nduna, the training will be fully funded by the company or companies that will have accessed the package of incentives that we have given. The package of incentives revolves around giving them royalty free access.
You know that we said when you want to cut and polish diamonds locally, you will not pay royalty on the diamonds. This was in order to encourage people to cut diamonds domestically but we also then took another step to say, if you are going to use the diamonds for the training of our people; when you buy diamonds, we will give you that same benefit which you would otherwise get when you are actually operating a manufacturing entity. From the Government and the School of Mines perspective, there are no direct expenditures. We forego the royalty, that is the expenditure that the Government commits itself to.
REHABILITATION OF DEGRADED ENVIRONMENT BY
MINING COMPANIES
- HON. NDUNA asked the Minister of Mines and Mining
Development to explain the measures the Ministry is taking to ensure that mining firms rehabilitate the environment degraded by mining operations.
THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDHAKWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you Hon. Nduna for that question. Rehabilitation of our environment is one of the key aspects of mining. Mining that does not rehabilitate is not progressive. We take note that over the years, significant damage has been done to our environment and we are trying to work out ways of dealing with that because some of the people who committed the offence have left the country. However, as I bring the Mines and Minerals Act for consideration by this House, one of the things that we need to tackle and tackle very seriously is the issue of ensuring that when somebody comes to mine in Zimbabwe, they cannot leave this country before they rehabilitate.
We are looking at a hybrid, the first thing is that we are proposing to Parliament, the promotion of mining with rehabilitation. You mine for a certain period of time and then you rehabilitate and move on to the next stage. Combined with that, we also intend to set up a trust where resources will be put and if somebody jumps the gun and leaves the country without doing rehabilitation, those resources in a trust account will be triggered to deal with the rehabilitation of our environment. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Hon. Minister. If setting up of a trust is good intention, can we not have a situation where we have a provision in the Bill which says, one cannot get a mining licence if they have not submitted a plan on how they would rehabilitate the environment during and after the mining instead of having to depend on money from a trust fund. Is that not akin to closing the stable door after the horse has bolted? I am for the idea of not giving a licence without a proper structure of rehabilitating the environment during and after mining. That will be my proposal Hon. Minister.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the Hon. Member is
right. When we give you a special grant to do exploration, you are required to present an Environmental Impact Assessment which will be approved by the Environmental Management Agency (EMA). When you convert the special grant into a mining lease, you are supposed to not only give us a development plan, which is over a period of time, you inform us at what rate you are going to mine – is it 100 ounces per year or 50 000 ounces. You also tell us the extent of the destruction to the environment. It is on the basis of all these things being submitted to the Mining Affairs Board, which will then say, yes we think that he has a good plan.
Hon. Maridadi, the issue is that, even after doing that, if somebody discovers that he had overestimated the resource, they can jump the gun and still leave even after giving you the plan in terms of the law. That is why I said a hybrid, because it allows you to bring in a trust but at the same time it enables you to do mining with rehabilitation at the same time. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Hon. Minister, some of these miners engaged in environmental degradation are artisanal miners or makorokozas from the constituency I come from. What are your plans to date of regularising their operations so that they can also come into the mainstream of the rehabilitation processes that you eloquently spoke about?
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. This is a perennial question from Hon. Nduna and on many occasions I have tried to explain to him. There are many Zimbabweans who walk into our offices everyday across the country and apply for land as it becomes open for prospecting. They apply for that land and they are given mining certificates and regularise their operations.
However, there are those in our midst, who believe in going onto the ground before they visit the offices and start digging. When they start digging, they then seek the services of people to say regularise me because I am already on the ground. I do not think that as Members of Parliament, whose role and responsibility is to make laws, we should go and try to encourage people to violate those laws. We need to be true to ourselves and to the positions with which the people of Zimbabwe elected us to.
Hon. Nduna, please help the young people who are out there to go to our offices and regularise their operations. Where they are located in a concession which is owned by somebody else, the best we can do is to - we cannot go and evict somebody because legally, we will lose the battle. However, the best we can do is to go and say, we have a pool of people who also want to do mining, can we sit and agree that you tribute out some of your land to them. To expect the Ministry, which is supposed to be protecting the laws made by this House and violate those laws by willy-nilly taking out people whom we have given licences and replacing them with others on the same piece of land is totally unacceptable, and we will not do that. I thank you.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Minister, my supplementary question to the Hon. Minister of Mines and Mining Development is to do with having a sustainable and viable model for mining towns, from a rehabilitation point of view. You know that in most of the towns, once there is mining, and the mineral is exhausted, there is a risk of having a ghost town. From a futuristic medium to long-term perspective, what are we doing to make sure that we subsist the existence of that town or urban settlement? Look at what is almost likely to happen with Shabani,
Kamativi to some extent, Mashava – you can have the whole list of those. From a planning and policy point of view, what are we doing as Government and as a country to make sure that we have such a sustainable model? Thank you very much.
HON. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I think the Hon. Member brings a very important question. Many examples abound of how when the mineral resources are exhausted we have nothing. At the moment we are discussing the Great Dyke, new platinum project and one of the most critical discussions that we are having is:
- Where do you site the houses, is it not better to put them in Norton so that if anything happens they become part of Norton? But there are also arguments to say that if you put them in Norton, you deprive other areas of the development which would have accrued to them as a result of the mining.
- In 25 years when the mineral resources are exhausted, what will they do? One of the things that we have been looking at seriously and we are looking at that also in Chiadzwa, is to say when diamonds are finished in Chiadzwa, you must at least be able to
have an irrigation system that is in place which is producing agricultural commodities and have agro processing activities, factories that are processing those raw materials from agriculture. So, you substitute mining with agriculture and that discussion is an absolutely important discussion. I would therefore urge Members of Parliament as leaders in the areas where you come from to be pushing such discussions. You should be able to bring in that discussion and saying what are we going to do, what will become the backbone of our economy if this particular backbone is broken.
Thank you Mr. Speaker.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY
SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64.
HON. CHAMISA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no quorum in the House in terms of Standing Order Number 56(1). [Bells rung]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order!
A notice having been taken that there being present fewer than 70 members, the bells were rung for Seven Minutes and a Quorum still not being present, THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without question put at Five Minutes past Five O’clock p.m. pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Number 56.
NOTE: The following Members were present when the House adjourned: Bhebhe A.; Chamisa N.; Chibagu G.; Chibaya A.;
Chidhakwa W.; Chigudu M.; Chikomba L.; Chimwamurombe A.;
Chitindi C.; Dube S.; Dziva T M.; Gandawa G.; Gezi T.; Gonese I.T.;
Gumbo J.M.; Gumbo S.; Holder J.; Kadungure D A.; Kaundikiza M.;
Khanye N.; Khumalo M.; Kwaramba G.; Mabuwa C.; Machingauta C.;
Mahiya M.; Mandipaka O.; Mangami D.; Mapiki J.; Marumahoko R.;
Matiza B J.; Matuke L.; Mavima P.; Mhlanga N J.; Misihairambwi P M.;
Mkandla M.; Mlambo W B.J.; Moyo J.N.; Mpariwa P.; Mpofu B.;
Mpofu M M.; Mudarikwa S.; Mudyiwa M.; Musabayana D.;
Mukwangwariwa F G.; Musanhi K S.; Mushohwe C.; Mutomba W.;
Mutseyami P C.; Muzondiwa E S.; Ndhlovu Alice.; Ndlovu N.; Nduna
D.; Nkomo Mail.; Nyere C.; Rungani A.; Saruwaka T J.L.; Shava J.;
Shongedza E.; Toffa J.; Uta K.; Watson N J.; Zhou P.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 14th June, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
BASELINE SURVEYS ON ECONOMIC LITERACY AND
CUSTOMER SATISFACTION
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that Parliament of
Zimbabwe engaged professional consultants to conduct Baseline Surveys on Economic Literacy and Customer Satisfaction. The baseline surveys will form an objective basis for planning various interventions and capacity building programmes for parliamentarians. In this regard, Members of Parliament must cooperate fully with the consultant and complete the questionnaires. The consultant will be stationed at the Members’ Dining Hall from 1300 hours to 1500 hours.
CHANGES TO PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House of changes to Portfolio Committee membership where Hon. Dr. K. Guzah is moving from the Portfolio Committees on Youth, Indigenisation and Economic
Empowerment and Environment, Water and Climate to the Portfolio Committees on Lands Agriculture and Resettlement and Foreign Affairs respectively.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 and 3 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 2 and the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
SECOND READING
PAN-AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL (H. B. 10, 2015)
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and Technology
Bill (H. B. 10, 2015).
Question again proposed.
SECOND READING
PAN AFRICAN MINERALS UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY BILL (H.B.10, 2015)
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on the Second Reading of the Pan-African Minerals University of Science and Technology Bill,
(H.B. 10, 2015).
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
*HON. UTA: Thank you Hon. Speaker – [AN HON. MEMBER:
Munonzi ani?] – Hon. Uta – [Laughter] – Thank you Hon. Speaker, I would like to support the speech of our President…
HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Members, can we respect
the aura of the House. I think it was not proper to ask the Hon. Member that unonzi ani? That is not proper.
*HON. UTA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to support the motion on the Presidential Speech. We thank the Lord for giving us such a leader who has love – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] – a leader who has love and is capable of fulfilling the needs of many people. He should be sanctified and his life should be prolonged. He is a spring of water created by God. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
Hon. Speaker, I would like to speak about the importance of the soil. The animal called a human being, good or bad came from the soil.
Where we live, agriculture, food or clothing come from the soil – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Hon. Speaker, as I look at the issue of agriculture, in my constituency, Buhera, people are now able to farm.
However, they do not have adequate agricultural inputs like fertilizer. Hon. Speaker, people in my constituency want to be empowered through irrigation schemes and drilling of boreholes which can be used in irrigation projects.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I will now discuss ZIM-ASSET. In my constituency, there is now improvement. People have improved their lives because they now understand that agriculture is the backbone of all development. There should be reforestation, including growing of fruit trees and construction of schools and clinics. These things determine the development of a nation. We know that in some areas, we have people who oppose progress in the country. As surely as the sun rises from the East to the West, come what may, the sun will always rise from the East. This means, despite the work of the retrogressive acts of the enemies, Zimbabwe will always develop. We have people who are involved in welding, bakery, gardening, carpentry. However, if boreholes dry out, that would mean that there will be no progress in these projects and cooperatives fail to thrive. We also say, education is very essential to the development of the country. We know that there are some people who are saying, these days education has no need, but as the leaders, we need to encourage them to go to school. My plea with the Government is that BEAM should be funded and empowered so that it pays for the orphans and other vulnerable children. If BEAM does not support them, the girl child becomes a victim because they will get a way of supporting the family by getting pregnant. However, we need to be strong and be resolute in the development of our country, especially in agriculture for development. I thank you. [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon Members, when I say
order you should speak softly or lower your voices.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
HEALTH AND CHILD CARE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF
THE TARGETTED APPROACH PROGRAMME IN MISSION
HOSPITALS
HON. MGUNI: I move the motion standing in my name that this
House takes note of the Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on
Health and Child Care, on the Implementation of the Targeted
Approach Programme in Mission Hospitals.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: I second.
HON. MGUNI:
1. INTRODUCTION
As part of its oversight role over the Ministry of Health and Child
Care, the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care resolved to enquire into the Targeted Approach Programme (TAP). The written submissions made to the Committee over mismanagement and abuse of the TAP funds at Mnene Mission Hospital compelled the Committee to make further enquiries into the implementation of the Targeted
Approach Programme in Mission Hospitals.
2.0 OBJECTIVES
The objectives of the enquiry were:
2.1 To investigate the number of mission hospitals that benefited from the Targeted Approach Programme;
2.2 To ascertain how the funds were disbursed and utilised.
2.3 To recommend policies that may strengthen the TAP
3.0 METHODOLOGY
The Committee used three methods of data collection namely: oral evidence, fact finding visits to the six selected mission hospitals in
Zimbabwe and review on the Auditor-General’s Reports on Targeted
Approach Programme.
3.1 Oral Evidence Sessions
3.1.1 Mnene Mission Hospital Executive and the Mberengwa District Medical Officer briefed the Committee on the refurbishment of the hospital on the 16th of September, 2014.
3.1.2 The Chief Executive Officer of Zimbabwe Association of Church-related Hospitals (ZACH) briefed the Committee on how TAP funds were disbursed and utilised on the 12th of May, 2015.
3.1.3 The Minister of Health and Child Care, Dr. Parirenyatwa, appeared before the Committee to explain measures the Ministry had put in place to ensure TAP funds were used for the intended purpose on the 17th of June, 2015.
3.1.4 The Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, Mr. W. L Manungo, briefed the Committee on the disbursement of the TAP funds on the 7th of July, 2015.
3.1.5 The Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Health and
Child Care, Brigadier General Dr. G. Gwinji, appeared before the Committee to further clarify issues pertaining to the disbursements of TAP funds on the 18th of November, 2015.
3.1.6 The St. Albert’s Mission Hospital Officials appeared before the Committee to clarify how they utilised the TAP funds and criteria used to select the suppliers on the 25th of November, 2015.
3.2 Fact Finding Visits
The Committee split into two groups and undertook fact finding visits to the following six (6) mission hospitals out of the twenty-three
(23) given by the Ministry of Finance during an oral hearing session:
- Mnene Mission Hospital (Midlands) and St. Albert’s Mission
Hospital (Mashonaland Central)—14th of October, 2015;
- Mtshabezi Mission Hospital (Matebeleland South) and
Mutambara Mission Hospital (Manicaland) —15th of November,
2015;
- Kariyangwe Mission Hospital (Matebeleland North) and Chikombedzi Mission Hospital (Masvingo)—16th of October, 2015.
3.3 Auditor-General’s Reports
3.3.1 The Committee considered the findings of the Auditor-
General’sReports of 2010, 2011 and 2013 in order to get a better understanding of issues surrounding the TAP although these focused on government institutions.
4.0 THE COMMITTEE’S FINDINGS
4.1 THE GENESIS OF THE TARGETED APPROACH
PROGRAMME
The idea of the Targeted Approach Programme started in 2009 with the aim to revamp health institutions which had suffered in terms of human resources, drugs, equipment, repairs and building of all health institutions due to the 2007/2008 economic decline. The programme was funded by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
4.2 RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE MINISTRY OF
HEALTH AND CHILD CARE; FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AND THE MINISTRY OF PUBLIC WORKS
4.2.1 The Ministry of Health and Child Care’s responsibilities included procurement, financial management, monitoring and evaluation of the projects in the institutions.
4.2.2 The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development essentially facilitated the implementation of TAP through timeous disbursement of resources to the targeted institutions.
4.2.3 The Ministry of Public Works was also roped in to give assistance on infrastructure and fixed equipment tenders.
4.2.4 Joint meetings with all stakeholders, Ministry of Health and Child Care, Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, Public Works and State Procurement Board, were held before the inception of the programme.
4.3 SELECTION CRITERIA
Institutions to benefit under this programme were chosen by the Provincial Medical Directorate. Institutions were asked to come up with priced areas of intervention before allocation of funds to that institution. This then formed the basis of their budgets and they would procure guided by that. However, evidence on the ground revealed that some hospitals, for instance, Kariyangwe Mission Hospital, was not selected based on the aforesaid criteria; instead, the hospital received a phone call from MoHCC requesting them to submit their project proposal which was to be within US$37 000. What it means is that Kariyangwe Mission Hospital was allocated some funds without submitting priced areas of interventions to qualify as beneficiaries.
4.4 TENDER PROCEDURES
Government procurement procedures were used by the public entities to utilise the funds while mission hospitals used their own procurement procedures. Meetings held during the fact finding visits to the mission hospitals revealed that the mission hospitals used different tendering procedures; Mnene and Mtshabezi Mission Hospitals used government tendering procedures while Kariyangwe used the Result Based Management System. At Mnene, the Committee was informed that tenders were approved by the Ministry of Health and Child Care, and not by the hospital’s Procurement and Tender Committee. It was further stated that some tenders that were approved by the State Procurement Board were overridden by the MoHCC. At Mtshabezi, tenders of U$10 000.00 and below were approved by the hospital’s Tender and Procurement Committee, while for those above US$10 000.00, the hospital would seek authority from the MoHCC and would be approved by the Hospital Procurement and Tender Committee. The
Provincial Medical Directors (PMD) of Mashonaland Central and the
Health Services Administrator of St. Albert’s Mission Hospital informed the Committee that mission hospital officials did not receive proper training on tendering procedures as their counterparts in government institutions.
4.5 DISBURSMENT OF THE FUNDS
4.5.1 According to the MoHCC Officials, Ministry of Finance was the main funder of the programme and all monies were channeled through the Public Finance Management system. The mission hospitals also received their monies through the same system but sometimes direct into their own accounts as mission hospitals.
4.5.2 Many institutions benefited from a total of US$107 million which was disbursed between 2009 and 2014. Of the amount, Central
Hospitals received about US$52 million. The hospitals are
Chitungwiza, Harare Central Hospital, Engutsheni, Mpilo, Parirenyatwa and United Bulawayo Hospitals.
4.5.3 Provincial Hospitals received US$21 million, targeting Bindura, Chinhoyi, Gwanda, Gweru, Marondera, Masvingo, Mutare and
Ngomahuru Hospitals.
4.5.4 District Hospitals received US$22 million, targeting
Beitbridge, Binga, Chiredzi, Chivhu, Gokwe, Karoi, Mahusekwa, Mvuma, Nkayi, Nyamandlovu, Rusape, Shurugwi and Victoria Falls
District Hospitals.
4.5.5 Mission Hospitals received about US$12 million. The hospitals are Bonda, Chikombedzi, Chireya, Chitsungo,
Gandachipfuwa, Gutu, Manana, Mary Mount, St. Mary’s, Munene,
Mutambara, Matibili, Kana, Pumula, Sanyati Baptist, St. Albert’s, Melary, Nyadire, Mtshabezi, St. Josephs’s, St. Patrick’s, St. Ruben’s
and Kariyangwe Mission Hospitals.
4.5.6 The table below shows the allocations and the actual disbursements of funds to Mnene, Mtshabezi, Kariyangwe, St. Albert’s, Mutambara and Chikombedzi Mission Hopsitals.
Table1. Allocations and Actual Disbursements of Funds to
Mission Hospitals
Name of Mission Hospital | Allocation in
US$ |
Actual Disbursement in US$ |
Mnene | 700 000.00 | 670 658.76 |
Mtshabezi | 125,000.00 against a request of 650,000.00 | 37,450.00—deposited end of June 2015—to be disbursed on quarterly basis. |
Kariyangwe | Hospital officials were not informed of how much in total the hospital was allocated neither were they asked to submit their project plan and amount of funds they required. They were asked to | 37,500.00—The hospital officials were informed that the money was to be disbursed in batches of the above-stated amount, without knowing the total amount the hospital |
plan within the envelop of $37, 500. | would get. | |
St. Albert | 700, 000.00 | 709, 200 |
Mutambara | 700, 000.00 | Between 2012 and June 2015 the hospital had received a total of 439, 300.13 |
Chikombedzi | 700, 000.00 | In June 2012, the hospital received 250, 000.00, and no further disbursements were made despite promises for more money by the Ministry of Finance |
4.6 INFRASTRUCTURE/PROJECTS UNDERTAKEN
4.6.1 Most of the hospitals’ infrastructure including road networks was poorly done while the medical equipment purchased was obsolete. According to the 2013 Auditor-General’s Report, the Ministry of Health and Child Care received non-functional medical equipment valued at US$1,369,850.00 in the government institutions. The non-functional medical equipment supplied to the hospitals includes Ventilators, Diathermy Machines, Suction Machines, Blood Gas Analyser, Multiparameter monitors among others.
4.6.2 The fact finding visits undertaken by the Committee confirmed similar findings in the mission hospitals. Mnene Mission Hospital had the worst findings on projects poorly done. Table 2 shows the unsuccessful projects at Mnene Mission hospital.
Table 2: Projects that were unsuccessful at Mnene Mission
Hospital
Name of
Mission Hospital
|
Project | Cost | Status of Project | Supplier |
Mnene
|
Ceiling Mounted X-
Ray Machine
|
180, 000
|
Had problem of card reader which failed to function. The contractor indicated that erratic power supply were causing the problem—card reader was later purchased and is ready for use | Food Miles
Trading Company
|
X-Ray Film Processor
|
40,500.00
|
The processor which was installed in the first place failed to function and the contractor delivered a new one a week before the Committee’s visit to the hospital. The processor still awaited testing and commissioning.
|
Capital Trading
|
|
Autoclave
|
64, 634.25
|
Worked for two weeks only and is currently not functional. The contractor repaired it many times but it did not work. |
Harness Services
|
|
55kg Washer Extractor
Renovations |
65, 545.40
180, 000:- a deposit of 100, 000. was made to the contractor |
Worked for six months only. Erratic power supply was sited as the major problem. The Hospital tasked PMD technician to find the proper regulator for the machine.
Not complete: - All hospital buildings were painted outside only leaving the inside unpainted—the old paint is peeling off, giving an unpleasant atmosphere of the hospital. The Hospital invited the Ministry of Local Government Public Works and National Housing by end of 2014 for evaluation of the work done and work not done, but the outcome is still outstanding. |
Harness Services
Food Miles Trading Company |
4.6.3 Kariyangwe Mission Hospital’s major projects of the extension of the hospital kitchen and the labour ward were successful and brilliantly done. The extended kitchen now has a pantry, storage room, new steel cupboards and washrooms for cooks. It is painted and has wall and floor tiles. The hospital has applied for funds to purchase two industrial stoves. The extended labour ward now has a hand washing basin and sluice room. It is also painted and has wall and floor tiles. The hospital has applied for funds to purchase a resuscitaire.
4.6.4 Mtshabezi Mission Hospital’s projects were not undertaken and funds not spent due to delays in the approval of plans and other logistical procedures relating to the expenditure of the funds. The hospital advertised for tenders on the 23rd of September 2015, and had opened them a week before the Committee’s visit.
- 6.5 At St. Albert’s Mission Hospital, To-Ryo Gumi (Pvt) Ltd. was contracted to do the following: extension of mortuary, construction of incinerator, construction of new offices.
This was not done, although payment was made to the contractor. There was no clear explanation given on why payment was made for jobs not done.
- 6.6 Projects at Mutambara Mission Hospital under the TAP fund included construction of a library at the nursing school; purchasing and repairs of kitchen equipment; laundry, theater, dental and rehabilitation equipment; medical surgical supplies, equipment; machinery (including vehicles) spares, consumables; and amenities bill settlement. At the time of the Committee’s visit, the hospital had deposited only 5% for the purchase of a UDI Truck out of a total cost of US$53,345.00 and 5% of a Hilux out of a total cost of US$35,600.00. The deposit was made on the 7th of August 2012 and the hospital was waiting for further disbursement of funds in order to make a full payment for the delivery of these vehicles. An ambulance, washing machine and laundry drier are key among the important items yet to be secured and were awaiting further disbursement.
- 6.7 Chikombedzi Mission Hospital’s projects included purchasing hospital furniture, medical equipment like autoclave, suction machine, laundry, theater, dental and rehabilitation equipment; medical and surgical supplies, borehole fitting; ambulance and service truck, machinery (including vehicles) spares and consumables, office machines, wheelchairs and generator. The hospital still had critical projects to undertake, under the fund, like X-ray, ultrasound scanner, toilets, fresh running water, infrastructure refurbishments and resuscitation of nursing school. A good number of purchased equipment was not at the hospital and was said to have gone for repairs.
4.7 SUPERVISION OF THE PROGRAMME
4.7.1 Both the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development did not supervise or monitor the use of funds by the hospitals that benefited under the TAP. The Ministry of Finance and Economic Development stated that it was unable to follow up on selective basis as it lacks the necessary capacity and relied on reports from the MoHCC. On the other hand, the Provincial Medical Directors and District Medical Officers were never informed of the disbursement of these funds by the MoHCC, leaving institutions to manage the funds by themselves. Furthermore, the MoHCC disbursed funds to mission hospitals without receiving acquittals.
4.8 INDUCTION ON THE TARGETED APPROACH
PROGRAMME
4.8.1 Kariyangwe Mission Hospital was not inducted on the programme while Mnene and Mtshabezi Mission Hospitals were inducted. Officials at Kariyangwe Mission Hospital were asked to liaise with Binga District Hospital on how the funds were to be used.
4.9 COMMUNICATION ON THE FUNDING
4.9.1 All the mission hospitals visited by the Committee stated that communication regarding the Targeted Approach funds came direct to the hospitals through telephone, without accompanying official documents. The Committee was told that the Provincial Medical Directors and District Medical Officers were not informed of this programme.
10. COMMITTEE OBSERVATIONS
The Committee observed that:
10.1 Targeted Approach Programme was a noble idea that was meant to give life to the ailing health institutions. However, evidence on the ground revealed that various programmes relating to rehabilitation and upgrading of infrastructure, replacement of fixed and mechanical equipment among others were either partially done or not done at all while some equipment were obsolete and non-functional.
10.2 There was serious lack of supervision by both the Ministry of Health and Child Care and the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development that resulted in the abuse of funds.
10.3 Budgeting and resource allocation was not above board as two Ministries were involved and not liaising with each other.
10.4 Mission hospitals did not have the capacity to manage large sums of money, a lax financial system that allowed leakage of funds into individual pockets.
10.5 Provincial Medical Directors (PMDs) and the Zimbabwe Association of Church Related Hospitals (ZACH) were by-passed; hence, they could not supervise the programme.
10.6 PMDs were also by-passed in the disbursements of the funds and were told not to interfere with the programme.
10.7 Tender procedures were flawed as the same company was contracted in almost all hospitals.
10.8 Most of the hospitals negligently purchased dysfunctional equipment.
10.9 Disbursements of funds were inconsistent resulting in the stalling of some projects.
10.10 Ministry of Health and Child Care disbursed funds to mission hospitals without receiving acquittals from these institutions.
10.11 Communication regarding the TAP funds to the beneficiaries was done through telephone calls.
11. RECOMMENDATIONS
In light of the afore-mentioned findings and observations, the
Committee recommends the following:
11.1 All institutions should have skilled procurement officers or allow officers who are already working in the health institutions to do short courses on procurement by December, 2016.
11.2 Ministry of Health and Child Care must supervise and monitor every activity and disbursed funds to its institutions.
11.3 The practice of by-passing the PMDs and Zimbabwe Association of Church Related Hospitals should be stopped henceforth.
11.4 Government tender procedures should be followed. Disciplinary action should be taken on those who deviated from these procedures.
11.5 The Committee strongly recommends that an investigative audit by external auditors be carried out in mission hospitals that benefitted from this programme with immediate effect.
11.6 Legal action should be taken against the contracted companies that failed to perform work. Furthermore, these contracted companies should be de-listed from tendering system and pay back the money by June 2016.
11.7 Ministry of Finance and Economic Development should release funds for outstanding projects in mission hospitals by April
2016
11.8 Ministry of Health and Child Care should not disburse funds to hospitals before receiving acquittals from them.
11.9 Official Government business must be communicated in writing, not through the telephone. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Acting Speaker – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order, order. I did not hear you. What did you say? – [AN HON. MEMBER: He said Mr. Acting Speaker.] - Who said so? You address me as Mr. Speaker. That is all.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: So, I think the Hansard has to be corrected Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, may you
proceed with your debate.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The motion that has been raised by Hon. Mguni on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care, from a distance might appear as if it is one of those useless motions that people can ignore that
Honourable Members can ignore, and look away. A closer analysis Mr.
Speaker, will show you that this is a motion that was blown out after some corruption was exposed at Mnene hospital by Honourable Zhou, in which it was alleged that millions of Government funds were abused in hospitals.
Mr. Speaker Sir, this was a programme which was meant to resuscitate our health care infrastructure after a decade of decay and neglect of our health institutions by the Government. Therefore, Government deliberately put in funds in that programme which was meant to resuscitate both the infrastructure and the equipment of our health programmes in this country. While the budgeted amount of money went over $200m, it is proven that about $107m of public funds were released with an aim to try and revive our health infrastructure. What is sad Mr. Speaker Sir, is to note that today, not half of whatever was intended to be achieved was achieved by the disbursement of that amount of money.
The reasons behind that are the two issues that have created curiosity to some Honourable Members like myself. First to note Mr.
Speaker Sir, if you look into the report on at the disbursement of figures, you will see that it is indicated that Mnene hospital which is in the Midlands Province received $670 658.76. Mtshabezi hospital which is in Matabeleland South received $37 450.00. Kariangwe hospital in Binga where I come from received $37 500. I want to repeat, it received
$37 500 against $670 658.00 that was disbursed to Mnene hospital. St.
Alberts Mission hospital which is in Mashonaland Central received
$709 200.00 against a background where Mtshabezi hospital in Matabeleland South received only $37 450 and Kariangwe hospital only received $37 500. Mutambara hospital in Manicaland received $439 313.00 at a time when Kariangwe hospital received $37 500 and at a time when Mtshabezi hospital received $37 450.00. Chikombedzi hospital in Masvingo Province received $250 000.
When I analyse this pattern of disbursement, what it tells me as a person that comes from the western region of this country is that we have got a tendency as a country to disburse more resources to regions that are on the eastern side than on the western side. As I stand right now to speak, my analysis is that Zimbabwe is a country that distributes resources according to tribes and regions. What we are seeing here is that we have got a Central Government that feels that a hospital in Mashonaland Central should receive $700 000 – close to a million dollars and only gives $37 000 to a hospital that is in Matabeleland South and another that is in Matabeleland North. It is not by coincidence that hospitals in Masvingo, Mashonaland Central, Manicaland and Mashonaland East received close to a million dollars when hospitals in Matabeleland received below $40 000.
As a Parliament and as a Government, when we hear the people of Matabeleland crying about marginalisation, you think that those people are cry babies but facts are here to speak for themselves. A whole Central Government has got the capacity and audacity to release a million dollars to a hospital and release only $37 000 to an equally big hospital because it is situated in Matabeleland.
When we called the Permanent Secretary, he could not justify why hospitals in Matabeleland were receiving a paltry $37 000 against close to a million that was being given to hospitals that are in Mashonaland. What it means in this country is that the people of Matabeleland South and Matabeleland North are second class citizens of Zimbabwe and therefore whenever they receive resources, what they receive is as good as nothing. This is the sad reality that is reflected by the report of your Committee. This is just one Ministry. I am sure we can try to go and scan how other Ministries are also distributing resources. What it means is that Matabeleland as a region, is receiving less than 6% of total allocations that are coming from the resources of this country and that is how sad it is.
As I stand here as a person from Binga, when I look at you and I look at every other Member of Parliament that comes from this region, in the eyes of the Executive they are superior than me. That is what it means – [HON MEMBERS: Aaaah!] Government is deliberately marginalising against the people of Matabeleland by ensuring that we do not get sufficient resources. If we look at the manner that our country has been developing since 1980, the trend is reflected in this report - develop Shona first and leave the rest out. This is the sad reflection of this Government that has been running this country since 1980 up to today.
The second issue that generates curiosity to a person like me when
I look at this report, is that when we went to Mnene, Mutambara, Kariangwe and every hospital that we visited, there is one trend and pattern. One individual from the Ministry of Health and Child Care was calling all the hospitals and telling them who to award tenders to. One individual’s name keeps appearing in all the hospitals, that is how the trend is.
Despite all the audits that were conducted, they pointed to that individual. To date, that individual is still working in the Ministry of Health and Child Care at the Headquarters next to the Accounting Officer and nothing has happened to that person. Our analysis, if you listened to what machines and equipment were bought throughout the hospitals that were mentioned, over 50% of the amounts of money that was distributed literally returned to Harare into pockets that are at the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and Ministry of Health and Child Care. We are saying out of the $107 million that was disbursed, over half a million dollars of that amount of money, directly went into pockets. It is no wonder nothing that was bought at those hospitals is functional as we speak. It is a reflection of how corrupt our system has been. The leadership of the country is silent when $107 million that is meant to develop this country goes into lining individual pockets. Then we call ourselves leaders of the people.
Mr. Speaker, what is also very clear in this report is that there is a lackadaisical approach to use public funds in this Government. Can you imagine that after disbursing something like $700 000.00 (seven hundred thousand dollars) into a hospital account, instructions are given through verbal communication? Nothing written, just verbal communication, that is how we treat public funds in this country. This is how the Executive treats public funds. They can simply disburse $700 000.00, that is close to a million dollars and give verbal instruction on how to use that amount of money and no one is then made to account. We are talking about Ministries that have got Accounting Officers, then we begin to question whether, as a country, we are desirous of being transparent and accountable when it comes to public resources?
It is not surprising that we are at the level of economic problems that we have as a country because of the manner in which we treat public resources. We treat public resources as if they are a feeding trough for the men and women who are in the ruling class as nobody is made to account. That is why we find ourselves in these levels of problems that we currently have because everybody can feed whatever goes through into the system and no one is accountable.
Mr. Speaker as I conclude, I see Mr. Gandiwa wants to ensure that I get away from here. There was also a problem that was clearly noticed in this programme. You wonder how a Ministry can disburse $107 million of public funds without notifying the critical structures or the implementing structures of the receiving Ministry. We used to think that governance is gained through experience. When people have been ruling since 1980, we expect that by 2014/15, they will be having experience of how to run things properly. Instead, they are acting as if they have just come out of the assembly points in 1980 when it is
2014/15 so...
*HON. M. R. N. MAWERE: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order! Excuse me Mr. Speaker Sir, we do appreciate what the Hon. Member is talking about but making reference to assembly points is denigrating the freedom fighters that liberated the country. – [HON. CHIBAYA:
Makatukwa kuShake shake mukati zii!]- - [HON. MPARIWA:
Kunyarara kunge muri kugerwa musoro muchitukwa!]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Order you may
proceed Hon. Member. You are left with three minutes.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I had no intention
to insult the war veterans, if that is what my brother read out of my statement…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Proceed with your debate
please.
HON. P.D. SIBANDA: Basically, I was saying that this
Government seems not to have a desire to properly handle public funds. Since 1980, that is how this Government has been treating public funds, taking public funds and consuming them privately without any accountability to the public. This is shown by how these amounts of monies were utilised. Therefore, as part and parcel of my recommendations, I think this Government should begin to show political will from the top office of trying to curb corruption. If we do not do that, we will continue to sink as we have been since 1980. I thank you.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
ZANU PF CAUCUS MEETING
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: All ZANU PF Hon. Members
are required to attend Caucus tomorrow at 0900hrs at ZANU PF
Headquarters. – [HON. CHIBAYA: Monotukwa futi!] –
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to
debate on this motion on the targeted approach programme. Firstly, let me acknowledge the report and the findings therein and also put into perspective some of the issues that have been debated herein.
The issues that have been raised of corruption and nonaccountability are really deplorable for us as a nation and a terrible indictment on the people that were in charge. Let it be known that this programme was done during the tenure of the Inclusive Government – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – The then Minister of Finance was Hon. Tendai Biti from the then MDC-T, the then Minister of Health was Hon. Madzorere. If you look at what was happening, for the first time in the history of this Government, accountability was thrown out of the window. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
The systems that had proven to work, that if a Government was disbursing funds would have to go through the Government structures, that include provincial systems, the PMDs, all these systems for the first time, we bypassed. Money was given especially to mission hospitals.
The mission hospitals, some of them have never worked in Government had no knowledge on what tender procedures are. As a result, a lot of -
[HON. CHIBAYA: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please.
HON. DR. CHIMEDZA. Can you protect me please? The money was improperly disbursed and improperly supervised by the then
Ministers and even without acquittal, they went on to give more money. I think we have learnt a lesson. When the new Government came in, this is where audits were done and this rot was unearthed. - [HON. CHIBAYA: Which new Government.] – This Government that is here now. - [HON. CHIBAYA: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes. - [Laughter.] - what you also need to understand is that when you distribute money in hospitals, it is according to equitable distribution. You do not give the amount of money to hospitals because you have given the same amount to a hospital, the needs are different. The structures, requirements and states of hospitals are different. If you go to a new hospital, you do not give it a million dollars just because you have gone to Mnene Hospital which is run down and given them a million dollars. You give the money according to need. There is assessment and distribution, so to say that the money was given to the east or west based on tribe is really irresponsible to say the least.
What has come out of this report is Government and officials that slept on duty, the procedures that were not followed; a lot of money that was misused. We want to applaud the system that then unearthed and corrected this. I am sure from now on, even those that did this can also learn. Those that cry loudest here were partly responsible for most of this rot. The Hon. Member was saying it is like people never learnt, they were new people who knew nothing about governance and made a lot of mistakes. We understand that. Thank you.
HON. DR. KEREKE: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate at hand. Certainly, I also want to commend the Committee for coming up with sobering observations. Firstly, I want to urge Parliament, the august House that in terms of our programmes to implement the oversight function, we look at the time lapse and how relevant and how useful the product of our sweat would be. Here we are looking at a very proficient and telling report born out of a hard working Committee of the House but it is looking at a period 2012 long back after the horse has bolted. Perhaps we need to look at ways through which we can ensure that matters to do with the audit functions in our line Ministries as
Parliament, we try to be as current as possible. If you are a farmer, you do not contemplate how to deal with the ways of weevils well after the granary is vanquished. You plan, I am harvesting now weevils come to destroy my grain, you put remedial measures before it has happened.
That aside, let us take the lessons that have come out of the report.
The first is the issue, the opaqueness of our procurement systems. This is a serious issue Mr. Speaker Sir, which should be corrected. We have a tendency where fiscal resources are going into line ministries without proper procurement and accountability systems in place. $107 million is not small change for the size of our economy. Even if it was $20 million, we are in a drought year, that $20 million was going to count a lot in terms of food importation.
The opaque nature, Mr. Speaker Sir, of our procurement systems, we tend to have more like subsumed our own conscience into accepting that corruption is normal; that public officials are certain sacred cows; when they are corrupt, they receive corrupt funds, they cannot be held to account. I want to say it is Parliament which set rules and laws that are there to deal with the vices of corruption and non-accountability. In the exercise of our oversight function, we should come out with measures that would ensure that those laws are followed.
Mr. Speaker Sir, when one looks at the resources our economy has, be it mining, agricultural land and human capital, one can conclude that perhaps one of the most significant milestone on the neck of our economy is the vice of corruption. Yes, sanctions are a vice which degraded our performance Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say at this juncture, 50 to 60% of our troubles are as a result of corruption. We need to ensure that we cannot hope to have effective productivity in the tentacles of our economy as long as we have not dealt with the vice of corruption.
We are in a negative inflation territory, which means the general cost of production are not raising. In fact, they are declining from a pricing point of view; you then ask what the causes of our underperformance are. There is a new cost which is more hazardous than the hyper-inflation that our country experienced in the year 2007, 2008 and the like. This new cost is called resource leakages through corruption. If you disburse a $107 million, 605 of that is going towards unproductive /non-productive areas, we cannot expect the production and capitalisation of those institutions as would have been planned to take place.
We have a challenge as the august House to ensure that line ministries, implementing institutions and public institutions utilise resources as would have been allocated to them. Mr. Speaker Sir, perhaps it is time we also look at the way Parliament evaluates fiscal performance. We sit here; we debate budgets and then legislate through Finance Bills, pieces of legislation which set the parameters, magnitudes of our budgets that have to be followed.
However, as Parliament, we tend to sit in acquiescence when budget parameters are missed, that is lawlessness. It is a breach of a fiscal and Finance Bill. We really need to exercise rigor to introspect and find out why those budgetary provisions have been missed or omitted.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also want to add on and say, let us move towards zero-base budgeting concept, which says when you are financing a project, look at the actual results from base to finish and say, how much resources are we ploughing into this project and at what stage should we see the end product. Mr. Speaker Sir, we cannot budget as Parliament or add our input into budgets and be happy to see mere compliance with quantums – to say, if we set a budget at US$20 million and if it reaches US$20 million and less, we clap hands and say, it was observed. We need to go into the budget, what did that US$20 do, vis a vis, the original plan.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we need to promote fiscal constitutionalism.
Fiscal constitutionalism means that we are respecting the reality that the function of Treasury is a creature of the Constitution. The institution of Parliament discusses and approves budgets. When those budgets are approved through a Finance Bill, let us promote the observance of that law, the Finance Bill. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15 June, 2016.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
CITY OF GWERU WATER AUDIT
THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC
WORKS AND NATIONAL HOUSING (HON. KASUKUWERE):
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Last week, Hon. Chibaya raised a very important issue, which I will make a statement to on the City of Gweru. Mr. Speaker Sir, after being inundated with numerous reports and allegations of corruption at the City of Gweru, the Ministry of Local Government commissioned an audit into the state of affairs of the City of Gweru.
The investigations unearthed a lot of irregularities, if not absurdities which included inter alia: that the water account (which is one of the main source of funds for a council), was not ring fenced as per ministerial directive. This means that instead of channeling all water revenues towards improving water supply and its quality to Gweru residents, councilors and management would channel it towards their own self-aggrandisement.
The audit also unearthed delays in billing and other anomalies. The sum total of all this was that council was sitting on non-revenuewater of more than 30%, which means, of all treated and pumped water, council could, on a daily basis, account for 30% of its water. This, together with dwindling revenue inflows and crippling strikes by employees due to non-payment of salaries and in a bid to strengthen and plug both financial and real water leakages in the council’s water account, a water audit was recommended as a strategy to unearth the leakages, inefficiencies, real and apparent losses and proffer solutions to the same.
The City of Gweru then floated an informal tender, which was duly advertised in national papers as per statutes. The tender was open to the public and it closed on the 8th of January, 2016, at 12pm. Tenders were opened immediately thereafter in the presence of bidders who chose to attend. The council’s procurement committee then evaluated the tenders and it was awarded to Zimbabwe Innovative Technologies (ZIMIT), which was the most responsive according to specifications.
The preliminary water audit findings to date has identified more than 3000 illegal connections, various properties that are not on the council’s billing platform, more than 15000 non-functional meters and a proliferation of unprotected wells doted all over the City, to name a few. The audit has also unearthed stands and other properties that have been created and parceled out illegally and such properties are not on council’s database while at the same time, drawing water from council’s water distribution system illegally.
As a consequence of the incremental adjustments being done to council’s systems based on the preliminary findings, council’s water revenue base is widening and there is improved recovery and water supply is on the mend.
The Ministry would want to put it on record that Engineer V. Choga is one of the employees and Director of ZIMIT according to the company profile of ZIMIT and is neither a shareholder of ZIMIT nor is he related to Mark Choga, who is one of the members of the caretaker commission running the affairs of the City of Gweru.
The Ministry will not be deterred from taking corrective action on all the unearthed irregularities at the City of Gweru and will not rest on its laurels until sanctity prevails at the City of Gweru. We will also hasten to say that no amount of threat or malicious reporting will impede our drive to ensure that Gweru residents are protected from unfair treatment and we will not rest until quality services are availed to all the residents of Gweru. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, I am sure Hon.
Members are aware that this is a Ministerial Statement and all you need to do is seek clarification only and no debate.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I just want to seek clarification from the Hon. Minister regarding the relationship between Mark Choga and Engineer Choga, who is the director of ZIMIT company. My understanding is that Engineer Choga is the brother to Mr. Mark Choga whom he appointed as a commissioner. Secondly, I am not so sure Hon. Speaker if the Hon. Minister did his research properly when he spoke of salary arrears for employees. When you appointed the Commission Hon. Minister, the City of Gweru was in four months arrears and as things stand now, the Commission which you appointed is in six months arrears.
Thirdly, on the issue of the availability of water, Hon. Minister, the situation – I stay in Gweru, the situation is now worse than before. I thank you.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: I would like to seek clarification on the area where he said he will not sit on corruption. Has Gweru managed to work as a full council? The Minister has come here to quickly say there is a problem with the elected councilors but he has not come to say if Gweru ever worked as a full council. The Constitution demands that a full council be instituted which will have MPs and Senators contributing to the development of that city. The full council is mandated by the Constitution to sit and plan the development of the economy of a city council. That council is not …
HON. CHAPFIKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. You
gave a ruling regarding the proceedings after the Minister’s presentation. You said we can seek clarification or ask specific questions but the Hon. Member is debating – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjection.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon Members.
Hon Maridadi, do you want me to name you? I was listening to his speech, may you proceed just to seek clarification.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, my
clarification comes on the point where the Minister is administering a non existent Urban Council’s Act, which he should have long brought to this Parliament. He should be able to administer a proper Urban Council Act which includes the administration of a council that constitutes Senators, Ministers and other councilors who were elected.
He is coming here to say he has seen a lot of wrong things happening.
My next clarification is on your tender, which you said you floated and it ended on the 20th January. It is clear, according to the ethical rules of engineering that whenever you see people floating a tender during holidays, there is suspicion of serious corruption and targeted people who are likely to be invited to bring their tender. Can you clarify why it was done during the Christmas holiday?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please Hon
Members. We are not now opening up a debate. I have allowed Hon.
Mudzuri to go out of his way a little bit but I cannot continue doing so.
I just need you to seek clarification.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have three clarifications that I want to get from the Hon. Minister. The first one is, when I heard the Minister reading his statement, he seemed to indicate that he intervened in the affairs of the local authority of Gweru because there were problems and he cited two problems to do with water and salary arrears. The Central Government of Zimbabwe has got numerous problems. I can count them up to 20 or 30, including the cash crisis. Does the Minister see it as something that is good if the people of Zimbabwe are to say that instead of this Government we need a Commission to run the country because it has problems?
Secondly, the Hon. Minister seems to indicate that he took that action to protect the residents of Gweru. The residents of Gweru made clear who they wanted to protect their interests and they elected their representatives. Did the Minister consult the residents of Gweru before his intervention, if not, where does he draw the mandate to protect people who have already elected people to protect them outside the provisions of the Constitution?
Lastly, I think when the Hon. Minister gets an opportunity like this, to come here, there are other issues as well that he has to clarify. For example; the expenditure in terms of allowances that are being drawn by his commission because it is “his commission,” are actually more than those that were being drawn by the councilors that he suspended. What is the rationale behind increasing the expenditure of people that you pretend to be protecting? Thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: I want to seek clarification in terms of the conduct that is being exhibited by the Hon. Minister. I say this in relation to the national Constitution, specifically Section 2, which talks about the supremacy of the Constitution - read in conjunction with Section 276, which talks about the independence of local authorities. It clearly states that local authorities have a mandate to manage their own local affairs. Also, Section 278, talks about the appointment of tribunals, which should be done through an Act of Parliament. So, I would want to know why the Minister is just acting as if we are in a zoo? Thank you.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Let me start by thanking the Hon. Members for seeking clarification, which I am able to provide. I want to thank Hon. Chibaya who raised the issue in the first instance. The point that he raised was that I had appointed Mr. Choga, who subsequently had awarded himself a tender. What I came to do this afternoon is to clarify that it is not the same person. The Engineer V.
Choga he was talking about and Mark Choga are two different people. So, I thought I was only clarifying a point. What the Hon. Member had done was to say that I, in particular, had appointed a person who had given himself a tender and what I have done today is to clarify that they have similar names but they are two different people. The Hon. Member seems to know much more than I do, but if I was to pursue the thinking that all people with the same surname are related, even the Moyos in Bulawayo would not be able operate because if you are going to use the surnames and say no Moyo should work in this place because so and so is doing this, it would be very difficult – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
Secondly, I thought I would not go into this area but I only want to encourage the Hon. Member to also pay his water bill because he is one of those who are affected by this audit. He has not been paying, he illegally connected water – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Members, remember you are in Parliament, so behave well – [HON. CHIBAYA:
The Minister is also in Parliament.]
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. My point of order is that the Minister must not be personal. I think the issue that was brought by Hon. Chibaya is to assist this country. He must not be personal because we are not being personal with the Minister. He is a Government Minister and we expect a lot better from a Minister of Government. From a national leader, we expect a lot better and I think the Minister can do better. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may proceed Hon.
Minister.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, just resume
your seat.
Hon. Chamisa having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Before you proceed Hon.
Chamisa, are you going to make a new point of order, not what others have been trying to pursue? If not, then I might ask you to sit down.
HON. CHAMISA: Hon. Speaker, when Members of Parliament come to Parliament, they are carrying the full colour, steam and tenure of the people whom they represent. We have a serious violation of a fundamental constitutional right, the right to confidentiality of personal details. For a Minister to stand up, it is a constitutional right. You have privacy issues; he has privacy issues to the extent that they are not public in the term of his representation. So, to the extent that he has done what he has done; he has to apologise, withdraw for the benefit of our Constitution – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, Hon. Chibaya is accountable to the people because he is a public official but not when you delve into issues of privacy – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you may proceed – [HON. MEMBERS: Make a ruling, make a ruling!] – You do not force the Chair to make a ruling. I was going to make a ruling, why do you want to force me to make a ruling.
Hon. Minister, avoid to pick up on an Hon. Member. You may proceed – [HON. MEMBERS: Please withdraw!.] –
Withdraw what, order please, I have made a ruling. Hon.
Minister, you may proceed.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Mr. Speaker Sir, for progress sake, I want to withdraw the statement I had made, that the Hon. Member has not been paying for his water in Gweru. So, that statement is withdrawn but I will engage the Hon. Member privately when we meet outside – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I have withdrawn.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Maridadi; you may proceed Hon. Minister.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The
second question that has been raised by Hon. Mudzuri is to do with the alignment. Mr. Speaker Sir, on the issue to do with alignment, I will be coming to Parliament on that process. As you are aware, we have over
400 pieces of legislation that had to be aligned in terms of the new
Constitution. Our Ministry and the Ministry of Lands and Rural Development working together, will be bringing to Parliament, various alignment processes that will achieve exactly what the Hon. Member is seeking us to do.
HON. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The
Minister is working outside the Constitution by not having done that for three years. What he is actually saying is, he can see the wrong thing in Gweru where they have failed to supply water, but they have failed to supply a simple legislative law which can be governing the city. That is what he should answer – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Why should you go and pick on people who are paying residential monies. He must be able to respond why he has failed to bring the law.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members, very
soon I will ask one of you to go out if you continue making noise – [AN HON. MEMBER: For seeking clarification?] – Seeking clarification when you are making noise.
HON. KASUKUWERE: We have already tabled in this House
some of the amendments that we are making. So, I am sure, with the support of colleagues here, we will be able to achieve the objectives as set out in our Constitution.
Hon. Sibanda raised an issue - [HON. MUDZURI: Inaudible
interjection.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mudzuri, you are a
senior Hon. Member, I do not want to mention your name again. Be
patient.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I am sure I received questions from more than five Hon. Members, so perhaps some of them I might have skipped them. You remind me so that I can get back to them. Hon. Sibanda raised almost a similar issue – on why concern yourselves with water and corruption yet we voted? However, the Urban Councils Act is still the piece of legislation that we are using to administer the councils and we cannot run away from that until after alignment, then we can talk of a change. This is what I am doing; I will be coming to Parliament and I have already tabled before Parliament. The process is already underway of amending but there can never be a vacuum in terms of the administration of the country.
The laws that are in place must still be implemented up to a point where were we have amended them. You cannot live a vacuum in a country. I want to also thank Hon. Sibanda for raising an important issue to deal with the amount that the Commission might be drawing. I am not sure how much they are getting as opposed to what the council was getting. I will go, have a look at it and then come and give a response.
Lastly, the question raised by Hon. Sithole to do with the independence of local authorities. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether it was the drafters intention to create republics within a republic. This Minister is appointed in terms of the law. I am appointed to administer sections of the law. I administer the Urban Councils Act and various other pieces of legislation. For one to say because in the Constitution, Section 278 stated quite clearly and categorically that yes, they will be independent, it does not take away the right of the appointed Ministers in Section 276 to run Ministries. I have authority delegated to me and I also delegate that authority, subsidiary legislation to local authorities. But to assume that the legislation intended at one given time to allow councils to do as they see fit is wrong. I do not think that is what the law intends them to do. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order. I think I said there is
no debate. Resume your seats. Initially, I told you that there should not be any debate except when one is seeking clarification. It is now being turned into a debate. Resume your seats, it is over. You may – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – There is question time tomorrow and you may ask the Minister.
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may ask during the
Question Time tomorrow. What is your point of order Hon. Mudzuri?
HON. ENG. MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. On a
point of order, I want to say the Minister did not respond to the clarification we sought. It is not a debate. If you read the Constitution it says, “No other law can supersede the Constitution.” We have asked the Minister on what supersedes the Constitution. He must also respond to my question where I said there are provincial councils which should be coming...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Minister,
I think I may take you back to the question asked by Hon. Chibaya, which you need to clarify. He was talking of non-payment of workers when the Commission was appointed, maybe that one alone and nothing
else.
HON. KASUKUWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would
want to thank the Hon. Member. As far as I am concerned, the Commission has been doing a good job. However, if there has been some delay as put across by the Hon. Member, I will also go and check the details and come back and report to Parliament.
Secondly Mr. Speaker, on the question raised by Hon. Mudzuri, I would want to submit that the Commission has been doing a fantastic job. Like I have said, the water situation, servicing of land and availability of stands has improved tremendously. On the second question, I do not want to go deeper but would rather respond and stop here. I will go and get the other facts which the Hon. Member has raised, to do with the two months beyond the four which were there before.
Mr. Speaker, on the last question which was raised by Hon.
Mudzuri, there has been an erroneous belief by Members of Parliament, councillors, et cetera to interpret the legislation. That is the business of the courts. Here as legislators, we make laws; we do not interpret them. Therefore, for one to come and tell me that the law is no longer a law, that pronouncement can only be made by a court. If the matter has been brought before the courts and is struck down by the Constitutional Court, it cannot be struck by the whims or caprices of an individual. It has to go through the processes and it is only the Constitutional Court that has the mandate of striking any legislation in terms of it being ultra-vires the Constitution. So, we cannot be told by individuals.
Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MARIDADI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker … THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: How can you raise a point of
order when I have said …
HON. MARIDADI: Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that we
still have questions to ask the Minister. The Minister cannot just walk out when Members of Parliament still have questions to ask – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*As Members of Parliament we are involved in serious business.
The Minister has come to present a Ministerial Statement.
Unfortunately, the Minister is abdicating his duty by going out of the
House before he has clarified concerns raised by Members of Parliament. One may even ask why he bothered coming if he did not want to complete the task at hand.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maridadi, resume your
seat. I said you can only seek clarification and there is no debate. What is obtaining now is turning into a debate and I will not allow that.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order
relates to the Ministerial Statement that was given. I believe that after a Ministerial Statement has been given, Hon. Members are given an opportunity to seek clarification. There are members who have stood up and were waiting to be recognised but you did not recognise them. It is now unfortunate that the Minister has performed a disappearing act. We believe that in terms of our procedures, it is very clear that he does so only when Members have exhausted issues that they want clarified.
There were still issues to be clarified by Hon. Members. Three or four members were on their feet and I was surprised when you asked the Clerk to read the Sixth Order of the Day, when in fact that business had not yet been exhausted.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Your
complaint may sound genuine but you were not in the Chamber. Order
Hon. Members. The Minister is no longer here, so we proceed.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: Mr. Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 6 to 16 be stood over, until Order of the Day, Number 17 and the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE AFRICAN UNION OBSERVATON MISSION TO
CONGO-BRAZZAVILLE
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move the
motion standing in my name that:
This House takes note of the Report of the African Union Observation
Mission to Congo Brazzaville Presidential Elections held in March,
2016.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, an African Union
Electoral Observation Mission comprising of 21 African States including Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Cote D’ivoire, Djibouti, DRC, Ethiopia, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Malawi, Mauritania, Rwanda, Saharawi, Sao Tome, Senegal, Togo, Tunisia and Zimbabwe which was represented by Hon. A. Mnangagwa, the Member of the
National Assembly for Chirumanzu-Zibagwe Constituency and one of
Zimbabwe’s representative in the Pan-African Parliament. The election observers were deployed throughout the Republic of Congo to:
- Follow the electoral process; and
- Meet with Government and electoral officials, candidates and political parties, civil society representatives and media to provide a critical assessment of the conduct of the election.
Hon. A. Mnangagwa was deployed in polling stations around the central business district and immediate rural areas in the north, west, east and south of the capital Brazzaville.
The Observation Mission was specifically mandated to observe the Presidential Election in line with relevant African Union and international instruments such as the African Charter on Democracy,
Elections and Governance, the OAU/AU Declaration on the Principles
Governing Elections in Africa, the African Union Guidelines for
Election Observation and Monitoring Missions, the International Covenant on Civil Political Rights (ICCPR), the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), the 2005 Declaration of Principles for International Election Observation to which the AU is a signatory and the national laws of the Republic of Congo.
The overarching goal of the mission was to provide an objective, independent and impartial assessment of the conduct of the elections in line with aforementioned international and regional best practice and standards. –[HON CHIBAYA: Ari nani uyu auya kwete benzi rabuda.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA): Order! Hon.
Chibaya, the language that you have used is very unparliamentary. Can you please withdraw what you have said now!
HON. CHIBAYA: Ndiri kuwithdrawer kana kumedza mashoko angu okuti kwauya munhu ari nani paChair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Pedzisa zvese uwithdrawe
zvawataura. Hazvibvumidzwi muparliament.
HON. CHIBAYA: I think you should also refer to me as an
Honourable Member and not say “zvawataura”.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You said kwete benzi rabuda.
Can you please withdraw that?
HON. CHIBAYA: I withdraw kwete benzi rabuda.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you not see that you are
embarrassing yourself.
HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.
Presidential candidates were nine in all, who included five independents;
- His Excellency, President Denis Sassou Nguesso, who represented the Congolese Labour Party,
- Guy Brice Parfait Lolelas, representing the Movement for
Democracy and Integral Development,
- Pascal Tsaty Mabiala, representing the Pan African Union for
Social Democracy,
- Andre Okombi Salissa, representing the Initiative for
Democracy in Congo,
- Jean-Marie Michael Mokoko (independent candidate)
- Joseph Kignoumbi Kia Mboungou (independent candidate)
- Michael Mboussi Ngouri (independent candidate)
- Anguios Nganguia Engabe (independent candidate)
- Claudine Munari (independent candidate)
Conduct of the Elections
Polling went according to plan, commencing at 7a.m. on Sunday, 20th of March 2016 and finishing at 7p.m. the same day. On the whole, the election was conducted in a peaceful environment, with people eager and enthusiastic to cast their votes.
Candidates Performance
Of the nine candidates, His Excellency, President Denis Sassou Nguesso of the Congolese Labour Party won the election, with 867 179, representing 60% of the total votes cast.
Guy Brice Parfait Kolelas of the Congolese Movement for Democracy and Integral Development came second with 260 090 votes representing 15% and third was Jean-Marie Mokoko with 199 414 votes representing 14%.
Environment Before, During and After the Poll
- On the eve of the election, telecommunications, internet and transportation were cut off, while shops and some hotels were closed.
- The polling stations in rural areas were far apart, thereby affecting some voters, especially the elderly who could not walk long distances.
- Due to lack of adequate transportation, some voters had to traverse long distances to polling stations.
- Generally, all the Congolese voted.
Goodwill/Solidarity Messages
On the eve of the election, I was invited by His Excellency, President Denis Sassou Nguesso together with several Ambassadors who represented their respective countries to meet His Excellency at his palace. When it was my turn to exchange greetings with His
Excellency, I conveyed a message of solidarity from His Excellency,
the President and Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence
Forces, Cde R. G. Mugabe, who wished His Excellency, President Denis Sassou Nguesso good health and a resounding success in the election.
In turn, President Denis Sassou Nguesso expressed gratitude and highlighted that it was important to have friends who think of you in times of need like this one. He further noted that Zimbabwe had come at the right time when he needed encouragement and calmness.
He requested me to convey a message of warmth and solidarity to His Excellency, Cde R. G. Mugabe and to wish him well in all his endeavours and great plans he has for Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*HON. MARIDADI: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me
this opportunity to debate. The first thing that I observed is that there were nine candidates that were contesting the Presidential election including the incumbent Denis Sassou Nguesso. Of the nine contesting candidates, five were independents. The report that has been tabled is that we did not hear that the opposition was accused of having run the race and being arrested for having tried to run for presidency. It is a good development which Africa should emulate. We did not hear issues emanating from the Hon. Member who tabled the report that there were missing persons during the election period.
Furthermore, she also stated that elections were conducted in a peaceful manner. There was no violence and there were no arrests, meaning that all the candidates were given sufficient time to conduct their rallies and election campaigns. The Hon. Member did not witness malpractices such as Nikuv that was tailor-made to ensure the interests of the other party would carry the day at the end of the election.
I would like to commend Congo Brazzaville for conducting its elections properly so that the east, southern and central African countries can emulate such good ways of conducting elections as envisaged by the Congo Brazzaville elections and reports will emanate in the mould that has been tabled by Hon. Mnangagwa. I thank you for having led a delegation to Congo Brazzaville which is next to the
Democratic Republic of Congo.
*HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would also
want to add my voice and commend the good report that has been tabled by Hon. Mnangagwa as our representative who observed the elections that were recently held in the Congo Brazzaville. I congratulate her on her appointment as Chairperson of the Southern Region Parliamentary Caucus. Congratulations, it helps to raise our flag high by holding such positions.
I am saying so because of the report that she has tabled. I believe that it was tabled by the Chairperson of the Southern region in the country which means that we have learnt. A lot has been said by Hon. Maridadi but as women, I would like to say that such an opportunity gave her the chance to observe that there will be several candidates for an election and people would vote freely, not killed or assaulted. She did not mention any incidents of busing in of people from certain constituencies into others to vote for a particular candidate but that the elections were conducted in a free and fair manner.
It is difficult when you have nine candidates but five were independent yet they were permitted to contest in the presidential race. Eventually, there would be a winner, they were all given opportunity to show themselves and there were no reports of violence, abuse or harassment of party supporters. The question that remains is, I pray that in Africa, in Southern Africa in particular we should emulate such a manner in which people run such races that each person is free to contest for the presidency.
Personally, I wish, we could witness elections being run in the same manner in Zimbabwe, the region and Africa as a whole. Thank you Hon. Mnangagwa, we have learnt that elections can be conducted peacefully, with acceptable results to all and that people continue to live in peace. I thank you.
*HON. MAPIKI: Mr. Speaker, first and foremost I would like to congratulate Hon. Mnangagwa on her election and having represented us well meaning. Our Zimbabwean women, educated as they are, we now have women of that calibre who can table very good reports like the one she has just tabled.
I have observed that southern African countries in SADC or those that are in the African Union have improved in the manner in which they are running their elections as witnessed by the Congo Brazzaville experience. We want to believe that Zimbabwe is now much further in terms of accessibility of the polling stations. You said the polling stations were far stretched and people had problems accessing them. Zimbabwean voters are now ward-based so people do not travel long distances. We are streets ahead of other countries and it shows that
Zimbabwe has created a better polling environment.
She made reference to voter education and it shows that
Zimbabwe is also better in that regard and we could even teach them on how to go about it. The fact that there are independent people who can go about teaching people on voter education is a good thing and voter education is on-going throughout the year.
The report has also shown that other SADC countries have emulated other countries that conduct elections every five years and the elections are held in a free and fair manner. The other point that was raised in the report was that there were a lot of candidates who lost and the same pertains in Zimbabwe. Others will run the race and complain after the results because they will have lost. It is correct that there is always an excuse for everything like our elders say but elections will have been held. When conducting our elections, a lot of political parties such as NDU, Simba Makoni and others are contesting but once they lose, they start complaining and claiming that the elections were not free and fair.
I also observed that SADC countries now have a better procedure of conducting elections. Thank you Hon. Mnangagwa, remain resolute as you represent us and continue tabling such good reports. I thank you.
*HON. MAVENYENGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the
opportunity that you have accorded me to speak on the elections that were held in the Congo Brazzaville. First and foremost, I am grateful for Hon. Mnangagwa’s appointment. It shows that women are raising our flag high and that the equality of men and women is now coming into play.
I thank her for the report that she tabled on the elections that were well conducted in the Congo Brazzaville. I have observed that even in Zimbabwe, since 1980, our elections have been continuously been held when they fall due. I also heard her talking about nine candidates that ran the presidential race and of the nine, the eventual winner was congratulated by the losers who conceded that the elections had been conducted in a free and fair manner. Zimbabwe should emulate the same practice. When you run the race in Zimbabwe and lose, you should concede the result so that our country can move forward.
Furthermore, Members of Parliament should concede results not only after winning but dispute them when they lose. Let us just concede results that emerge during elections because that would have been the choice of the people.
I heard that the elections in the Congo Brazzaville went well and that there were no missing persons in Congo but we did not hear the reports saying that the elections were not free and fair because there were missing persons. This surprises me that a missing person is alluded to as a cause for an election not having been free and fair, there are a lot of missing persons in this country. If there is a missing person, investigations have to be done because there are several missing persons. There are people that went missing during the period of the liberation war. The elections in the Congo teach us that we should accept the result that emerges from an electoral process and that those that lose will try their luck next time.
Zimbabwe is the pride of Africa, His Excellency, President Mugabe has never barred anyone from contesting elections. We know that certain people ran the race of presidency without any followers and no one barred them from contesting. So the report tabled by Hon.
Mnangagwa is an eye opener and should be a lesson to our opposition parties that they should quickly embrace the result of the election and that there has to be a single winner. Accept your loss, I thank you.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I want
to thank Hon. Mnangagwa for tabling the report of her election observation in Congo Brazzaville which has got telling lessons for
Zimbabwe. Congo Brazzaville is a former French colony in central Africa. You may recall that this country has had a chequered history. It has been unstable for most of its post independence years - with the current President who won the recent elections observed by Hon. Mnangagwa having been deposed from office at one stage but he rebounced back and introduced political and constitutional reforms.
I am sure his inclusive approach has in part helped him to be retained or reelected as the President of Congo Brazzaville. I am sure also the stability of this country in terms of free and fair elections is also attributed from the economic stability of this country. As you know, Congo Brazzaville is a rich oil producing country, and it think its GDP per capita is very impressive. When citizens are happy, it is not
difficult to retain the sitting President. From the Report I can discern that Africa has to conduct its elections as they did in Congo Brazzaville in terms of the AU Protocol on governance, democracy and elections.
I am happy that her report clearly shows that Congo Brazzaville is one of those countries that have adhered to this important AU Protocol. What we saw in Congo Brazzaville from the report is that the elections were peaceful, free, fair and credible. That is what the Protocol calls upon countries to embrace. The other feature of the AU Protocol on governance, democracy and elections is that the citizens must be able to express their free will and we can see this from her report, that the people from Congo Brazzaville were able to express their free will.
The other feature of the Protocol is that Electoral Commissions must be truly independent. The fact that there were not post election violence and other issues shows that the Electoral Commission in Congo Brazzaville was truly independent and impartial. The other issue in the Protocol which is revealed by her report is that all political parties must be able to campaign freely, have access to the media, freedom of association, freedom of assembly – from her report – all these things were observed as obtaining on the ground. From her report, I can only say that Congo Brazzaville provides pioneering lessons for other
African countries which are going to hold elections like Zimbabwe in 2018, to uphold the AU Protocol of governance, democracy and
elections.
However, I was a bit worried when she talked about all communication, telecommunication, everything jammed during the election day. These kinds of developments are not necessary because they really turned the otherwise good performance of the country in terms of the elections. I hope that those are lessons that we should draw from her report that there is no need to jam communication. There is no need to interfere with any form of communication because it will raise unnecessary aspersions on an otherwise good election.
Madam Speaker, before I take my seat, let me also congratulate
Hon. Mnangagwa on her election as the Chairperson of the Pan African Parliament, Southern African Regional Caucus. Congratulations Hon.
Member. I thank you.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have a few words to add on the report tabled by Hon. Mnangagwa, the member from Zibagwe; thank you – congratulations on your election. While your upliftment is also a plus or a feather in the cap of Zimbabwe, you are raising the flag high, we thank you for that. I am going to mention 3 things; firstly, you did travel very well. We also draw a lesson that our observer missions in Africa should be held over a period of time after and before the election, so that you have sufficient on how the election is run. There were some fighting and killing of one another in Congo Brazzaville after the election, when others were alleging that there was vote snatching, there were street fights; this is a curse for Africa. Africa should emerge from this habit of conducting disputed elections.
Africa should have credible elections that are violence free. We are not there to fight one another or kill one another, it is not a cock fight where they pay and one has to die. We know there should be one cock at every homestead but when we have an election we should not use denigrating information or be derisive of others. We are looking at these things because this has a negative effect on our economy because of political differences - more-so if there has been political violence during an election.
It is my wish that we arise and become the first born child of Africa in terms of leading the way on conducting good elections, as opposed to be the last born child in Africa in terms of running our election badly. We should not have people spilling blood because there has been election after a victory has been declared. There should never be a question of the winner and the vanquished, that type of spirit does not auger well for Africa and does not take Africa any further. It is our wish that Africa conducts uncontested elections. Africa should rise up so that we can teach Europe and America that elections can be done peacefully in Africa so that they can learn and draw lessons from the African democracy. The Europeans and the Americans can draw lessons from this. We should not just go there to ensure that we draw lessons from best practices. We should not have an election system where we seriously assault the woman that we married.
We need elections to go in a proper and fair manner, that people have run a one man race should not be the way - but we should have an election that has people that are contesting. We should not have a President who runs his own race or an Member of Parliament who runs his or her own race. There is not competition where you compete against yourself or your shadow, you compete against others.
Competition is because there are many, there is plurality this is what we should bear in mind when we go for an election. We should all be there to contest, fairly and you should win fairly and squarely. You should never win alone or run a race alone and mislead yourself that you have won a race because the next day you will have a serious comatose in the economy. This is because we lie to each other politically. We lie to ourselves that we have won and these are empty victories.
This is a good Report the word should be taken to the political parties that you and I represent, that we should not cheat during elections because you reap what you sow. We will end up having serious problems. We have serious challenges because of electoral fraud. Electoral fraud is not good to the fraudsters themselves. When we go to the next election you are neer centers of power in your leaders. We are also near our leaders and we should put our heads together and speak with one voice and tell our leaders that we should not have disputed elections. We should have elections that are run in a normal manner. We should live well and enjoy our peace so that Africa grows better. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Let me take this opportunity
to congratulate Hon. A. Mnangagwa for the position that she has ascended to in the Pan African Parliament. You represented the Zimbabwean woman and the Zimbabwean children. Well done you have raised our flag high.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MARIDADI: I second.
Motion out and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 14th June, 2016.
On the motion of HON. MATUKE, seconded by HON.
MARIDADI, the House adjourned at Eleven Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 16th June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
THE SENATE
ESTABLISHMENT OF A MULTI-PARTY CONSERVATION
CAUCUS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I wish
to inform the Senate that Parliament of Zimbabwe would like to establish a Multi-Party Conservation Caucus to champion the realisation of the ideals of sustainable development conservation as well as ecological preservation and management. This is in line with our zeal to meaningfully take part in various international programmes that promote sustainable development of our heritage and natural resources base.
Therefore, all Members of Parliament who wish to join the
Zimbabwe Parliamentary Conservation Caucus should approach Hon. Wonder Mashange, who together with the secretariat of Parliament is coordinating this initiative.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Could I find out from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development how correct it is, that we have to wait until October for the bond notes to be in circulation and what are the reasons for that wait?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Mr. President
Sir and I want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking that question. Yes, it is correct that we should expect issuance of bond notes towards end of September-beginning of October. This is so because, to get bond notes printed, it goes through various stages which include designing, origination and then printing. The firm authorised or contracted to produce the bond notes advised us that it would take that long. My apology of cause is that I have admitted on other forums and I think it is a mistake. The mistake was that we made pronouncement on the issuance of bond notes prematurely. I would have much preferred, with the benefit of the hindsight that we had done so to almost about the time we were issuing. Thank you Mr. President Sir.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank the Minister for that answer. Now that there is time before the bond notes issuance, is there anything which Government is doing to mount awareness campaigns, especially to the rural areas, so that by the time you introduce this, everybody is in the know and we are able to support this including the Members of Parliament here.
HON. CHINAMASA: I want to thank you Hon. Senator for that advice and it will be taken to heart. We will certainly take the opportunity to mount awareness campaigns in the rural and in the urban areas, as well as amongst Members of Parliament. I must add Mr. President that we have had a very robust debate on the bond notes. This is something that I treasure because it has helped us basically, to refine and clarify our own thoughts on the matter, so I am very delighted that we have had this kind of debate over this issue. I want to assure the Hon. Senator that efforts will be made to raise awareness amongst the stakeholders. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: With regard to transactions of companies, within the liquidity that they will be having within their company, bond notes could be more than the US$ that we are using. Is it transactable that at least those people can buy commodities from outside using those bonds? Perhaps I can find clarity from the Minister.
HON. CHINAMASA: Firstly, I think I need to clarify to this august House that we have adopted a multi-pronged approach to addressing the cash shortage. One of the approaches is to encourage the use of plastic money. As I speak, over the past four or five weeks, we have seen a quantum leap in the usage of plastic money – an increase of more than 400 percent. We are encouraging Hon. Senators here to resort to the use of plastic money because this will reduce the demand on the US dollar which as you all know, we do not print. With respect to the specific question about transactions, the Hon. Senator needs to be advised again that, we are encouraging corporations and the greater portion of the plastic money usage has been popularised amongst corporates. We hope that this multi-pronged approach will go a long way to assisting and reducing the demand on the US dollars.
Additionally, we have a multicurrency system which became dysfunctional largely because the appreciating US dollar came to dominate the situation here; exacerbated by the fact that it was not circulating, people just come to withdraw, they do not come to deposit.
For an economy to run, you must have a currency which is circulating. A unique challenge for Zimbabwe – by the way we are only one or three countries which use the US dollar for funding, both imports and domestic transactions but the trick always is, the money should circulate. We use the US dollar both, as a store value, as a medium of exchange and to fund our imports. Increasingly, people are taking money out of the financial service sector and storing it for value. That is what has created the problem, hence the promotion of plastic money. Thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: My question to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development is I am worried about bond coins and bond notes that want to be introduced in this country. I am sure every Zimbabwean is worried. I want to seek clarity on this issue, how are you going to make sure that when you have introduced these notes, you make sure that they stay with the value they have, to begin with. This is in view of the fact that I am looking at a country whereby US$15 billion can just disappear just like that. Maybe the bond notes will be okay at first but because we do not have a solution on corruption, it will then end up without value.
My question might appear to others like…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order! Can you go direct to
your question?
HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: I think the Minister has understood where I am coming from, so I want assurance from the Minister and more understanding on these notes. I am sure the whole of Zimbabwe wants to know. I thank you
HON. CHINAMASA: I want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking
this question because it is affording me an opportunity to clarify and clear a lot of misconceptions that have arisen through the announcement by the Central Bank Governor.
I am sure the public and a lot of Hon. Senators here, have missed the major thrust of the measures that were announced. We do not print the United States dollar in this country. When it started appreciating, it created problems for us and it appreciated when the currency of our largest trading partner South Africa, had a precipitous fall. So we were caught between a rock and a hard place. In order to address that issue, we realised that our foreign currency market was over-liberalised. So the major thrust of the measures that we announced is to start a process of managing our foreign currency and prioritising its usage. Our foreign currency earnings come from primarily five commodities, tobacco, gold, platinum, ferrochrome and diamonds. In other words, what we earn is hard earned; that foreign currency is hard earned.
However, as it was in an over-liberalised economy and market, we found that we were just being used as a fishing pond by other countries, unscrupulous traders and also that the currency was being used as a store value like I mentioned in answer to an earlier question. It was not being used as a medium of exchange. We use the United States dollar here to fund domestic transactions including kutenga mazhanje, ipwa, magaka, which no other country does. Other countries build volts to keep and store United States dollars as a reserve currency. In this country we were just open and therefore, open to any abuse. So, the measures we are taking are to correct that situation.
Coming to your specific question Hon. Senator; I am not worried and you should not be worried about the issuance of bond notes. To start with, they will not lose their value - when they are introduced, they will be just like the bond coins. When you asked, you also said you are worried about bond coins and I thought that was a slip of the tongue, I think you meant bond notes. Yes, initially, when we introduced bond coins, there was a lot of concern and resistance. Eventually, people came to demand issuance of bond coins, so the reaction that we are receiving, including the concerns you expressed, the worry; these were anticipated. Whenever new things are coming in, we expect people generally to be averse to change even where change is in their interest.
So, we do appreciate your concern and generally it is arising from what happened in the past, 2007/8, but I would like to say to the Hon. Senator and to this august House, we should never be a prisoner of the past. The past should give us lessons and we should be able to use those lessons not repeat the mistakes which were made yester year.
So, the value will not change, when the bond notes are issued, they are only issued as an incentive to exports. The source of our foreign currency, of our United States dollars comes currently from two sources, exports and Diaspora remittances. Diaspora remittances are not coming in a structured manner, the only foreign currency that comes in a structured manner is export because these are supervised and regulated by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. So, we want to give incentives to exporters so that they can increase their production and exports. When we issue the bond notes, they are only going to be relative to the volume of exports that are being generated. If Hon. Senator, you export US$100 worth of goods, we will give you US$5 on top so that your balance in the bank will reflect US$105 in order to incentivise you to produce more for exports so that we increase the stock of United States dollars.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development, Hon. Chinamasa. We have a complaint against our bank called Agri-Bank which does not have cash. It is failing to pay wages, it is now requiring that our contract workers should open accounts with it. My Constituency is renowned for contract workers that work in the sugar cane industry. I am appealing for your assistance in that regard. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): We have discussed these
limits because there were limits put on withdrawals. In our discussion, we have been very clear that employers should be allowed to withdraw money sufficient to pay wages. In this particular case, I am aware that this is the rule being followed by the RBZ. However, I will refer your concern to the Central Bank so that the necessary directive can be given to afford sugar plantation owners that privilege also.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I want to thank you very much Mr.
President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, with the rate at which corruption has risen in this country and the loss the country has suffered, for example, Chiadzwa talk of the US$15 billion, the PSMAS issue and many more such instances where the loss has been incurred and the culprit is going scot free; do you foresee the country coming out of this quagmire and become financially competitive again on the world market?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Very much, I foresee, I do.
In fact what makes me happy and sleep well is that I have great optimism that we have an opportunity to turn around the fortunes of this country. I am fully conversant and aware of the challenges that we are facing because first and foremost, it is important to understand scientifically what the challenges are because unless you understand the correct and true nature of your problem, you cannot come up with strategies to overcome and sort out that problem.
I think Government is fully aware of the challenges facing this economy and has adopted strategies. It is adopting and implementing strategies and these strategies are at various stages of implementation. Where I differ with a lot of people is that, all of us have a very short term view of solutions. We all think that all solutions should come tomorrow. I do not share that optimism. What I believe needs to be done is, once you analyse a problem such as corruption, you take steps to rid this society of that menace. To expect that overnight, when in fact corruption may already be embedded in the blood of our people, including maybe in the blood of even these distinguished Hon.
Members, I think is to expect too much.
Government is taking steps and I can just to mention one or two. We have taken steps, for instance, to fight corruption in ZIMRA because generally, importation at the border post is a source of corruption. We have taken steps basically, to introduce measures to fight that corruption which includes introducing CCTV at the border post, introducing a cargo tracking system for cargo that is declared at the border and destined say for Malawi, Zambia and DRC, which currently, we suspect is being dumped in Zimbabwe. We have also taken many steps to help improve the systems.
Next week, before a committee chaired by the Hon. Vice President here, we are also going to present our Public Corporate Governance Bill which will help sort out a lot of the challenges that we are facing in the parastatals, the State owned companies. There, we want to ensure that systems are put in place to prevent corruption.
I want to repeat what I have said elsewhere, Mr. President Sir, that corruption is a very complex crime. It is not like murder and theft. Corruption is different in that the briber and the person who has been bribed have both benefited and they are most unlikely to report each other to the authorities. When they do so, it is because one of them has been short-changed. So, what is critical in fighting corruption is to put in place systems that are transparent, that make management accountable to the shareholders. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: How much cash is a person allowed to go to South Africa with?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I cannot give you that
answer. This is a detail that as Minister I should not worry about. This is a detail that is fixed through the Central Bank in consultation with us and I cannot give you a figure right now. I have no direct figure right now. I am sorry.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Hon. Minister, when we were growing up, we used to enjoy banking our money and if you left your money without being withdrawn, you would get an interest. If you deposit cash these days in a bank and leave it there, you find that the savings will dwindle. Who is taking our money?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I agree with the Hon. Sen.
Machingaifa that the current practice where a deposit depletes or reduces over time to come to a point where you actually owe the bank some money. It is a matter that we are discussing with the commercial banks.
It is to do with the bank charges.
They also argue that if you put your money in a demand deposit, which means you just put it and you can withdraw it the following day, it adds a cost to them in terms of putting the book entries and so on. So, they advise customers to open what they call savings accounts which they can pay you interest because at least they know the money is going to be there for some time because banks use your deposits to on-lend to customers. Banks do not have their own money which they on-lend to customers, they use depositors money. Now, if depositors do not keep their money in the bank for a sufficiently long time, it means banks have no money to on-lend. So, they encourage you to put the money in the savings.
We have also come up with incentives for six months and one year deposits. We are encouraging that any income you earn from depositing on six months and one year accounts, we do not charge any tax. This is because our savings threshold level in this country is very low. We are probably something like 2% to 5% when in other countries it is normally 25%. So, we need to encourage savings, but I take your point. Put your money into the savings account and not in a current account because then, they charge you bank charges and so on. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHABUKA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Industry and Commerce, Minister Mabuwa. Are there any steps that you are taking as the overseers of the countries industries, about the issue of the Cold Storage Commission which has now been closed? We are missing the meat that they used to produce. Are there any steps you are taking to ensure that it bounces back?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): I thank the Hon, Senator for such
a pertinent question. Yes there are ways and means that we are taking to ensure that the Cold Storage Commission is revamped. We are working in conjunction with the Ministry of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development. There is a position paper which we have submitted to Cabinet, on how to restart the Cold Storage. We have put a strategy in place which includes the sale of non-core assets of the Cold Storage Commission.
This is going to ensure that the national head is grown so that the viability of the Cold Storage Commission can be started. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Hon. Minister I want to go
back to the issue of the $200 million that is going to secure the $200 million bond notes equivalent. This money is going to be printed somewhere and theoretically, it is supposed to be one to one with the US$. How are we going to be sure that no more than $200 million worth of bond notes are going to be printed? How transparent is the process? What stops the printer from printing a billion dollars worth of bond notes and then there will be enough going around but only supported by $200 million worth? If we have got this $200 million that is going to be advanced to us which is going to be supported by the bond notes, why do we not use that money rather than the notes because if the equivalent is one to one, it means they are the same. Why not use them as US$200 million paper?
The third part concerning the same question, I know that the President might have been given an exaggerated figure of $15 billion but we take it that when he says $15 billion has been stolen from Chiadzwa, it is true. Assuming that even 10% is what was taken, which would mean $1, 5 billion that is 750% more than what we are borrowing to support the $200 million bond notes that are going to be here. Why do we not …
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon. Senator, you are not
supposed to explain your question but just pose a direct question, otherwise you will be giving a speech.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Thank you Mr. President. Why do we
not use part of that money to support the $200 million bond notes in order to avoid having to borrow money which we will have to pay back even if we were to recover just a fraction of that money? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Sen.
Makone for her question. I think there are a couple of them not related. I take it the procedures permit – [Laughter.] – but I will answer all the questions. First, you say the bond notes are theoretical. The reality is that the bond notes are interchangeable to the US$, which is why they are backed by a $200 million facility from Afrexim Bank. So, in value they are interchangeable, which takes me to your next question.
If that is so, you ask, why we are not just using the $200 million instead of printing $200 million worth of bond notes. The short answer is to fight leakages. Bond notes will not be used outside the country. Whereas, the $200 million - if we put it in today, tomorrow it will have disappeared. We are just like a sieve when it comes to our foreign currency which is why we are saying we issue in bond notes because bond notes circulation is limited to the territory of Zimbabwe.
I have said also on other platforms, given the fact that we are a porous market, we are over liberalised. If we brought in $2 billion today, tomorrow it will have disappeared. There are already sharks waiting for it. So, the measure is, apart from trying to support the incentive scheme to exporters, the measure is also to reduce the import bill because we are introducing a priority listing of what commodities can be bought using our foreign currency. We are hoping through the issuance of the bond notes which are relative to the volume of exports, that the leakages of our US$ will come to an end or will be reduced substantially.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We have 12 people who are
listed here to ask questions. Let us ask one question at a time and if a Senator asks several questions, just choose one and ignore the rest.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: My question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Minister, you have explained quite a lot about the cash crisis which we are experiencing but you have not indicated how soon we are going to get out of this mess because it is a pity to see people in bank queues and not getting their money. How soon are we going to get out of this mess?
HON. CHINAMASA: Matanga zvinhu zvenyu zvekuti zvese zvinofanira kuita mangwana – [Laughter.] – At this point, all I can say is it is not easy to say clearly within what timeframe but I want to encourage Hon. Members. You see, it is a process and I am confident that when we follow the measures that we have taken; this problem will be behind us, but clearly we have until September/October for the issuance of bond notes which will go quite a long way to assist this problem.
You also need to know, like I mentioned earlier in answer to a question, that we are encouraging the use of plastic money. As I pointed out, within the past four weeks we have seen a 400% increase in the usage of plastic money, something that is very good. If a country has no banking system, meaning that all of us are not keeping our money in the bank, we have no economy. So, the measure we are taking is to encourage all of us to bank our money so that the financial system can operate efficiently and function. Circulation of money is the life-blood of an economy and what has caused us the problems is that the US$, which should be a medium of exchange is not circulating.
People are getting paid - whether it was through tobacco and can you imagine, last year tobacco sales by tobacco farmers fetched $600 million. Let us say of that, $400 million was produced by small scale farmers, all insisting to be paid in cash and in fact they were paid in cash. Having been paid in cash, we do not know where they put the money. So sometimes our success in the tobacco sector becomes the cause of our challenges, which is why we are now coming with the encouragement that they open bank accounts.
The same thing is happening with respect to gold production. We picked gold production from 13 metric tonnes in 2013 because of the fiscal measures that we adopted to 21,1 metric tonnes last year and artisanal miners whose activities we decriminalise are now contributing 40% of that and all of them demanding to be paid in cash. All we have been doing is withdrawing from the financial institutions but not depositing. So as long as you have a system where people are withdrawing and not depositing, it spells disaster to the economy and the measures we have adopted are to correct just that. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question. My question is also going to the
Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Previously before
2008, people could open foreign accounts as well as domestic accounts. The monies in the foreign accounts were used by anybody because people were encouraged to deposit their monies in those accounts.
Government also borrowed the money because these accounts were long term savings accounts. The diaspora people at the present moment send United States dollars but people are afraid that it is going to lose value if they deposit it in the bank because of the likelihood of the introduction of bond notes.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE Order, are you
asking a question?
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Yes, is it going to be the same or profitable to have two accounts so that it can be money that people know they will not use, like the foreign accounts which were there before and people would send money knowing that the money would be in these foreign accounts?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Senator
for the question and I can see that she is hacking back to the years 2007/8 raising concerns about confidence. I am fully aware when there is this resistance, reaction; I fully understand where it is coming from.
Like I said earlier, let us not be prisoners of the past; otherwise we will never craft a way out of our economic challenges. We have to learn lessons and we have learnt lessons to ensure that there is sound management of our economy.
On the question you asked - currently the United States dollar is a medium of exchange in our economy, which means our accounts are in US dollars. In fact, we do not have accounts in Rands, Pounds or Euros and in the other currencies that you find in the multi-currency basket which is why there are measures we announced last week to try to bolster and restore the functionality of the multi-currency basket. We want to encourage usage, not just of the US dollar but of the other currencies as well. We have sent out a directive to all Government departments, Ministries, divisions, parastatals, to say you must accept payment of services and goods that you offer in any of the currencies which are in the basket. If you have accepted it will be on the basis of any exchange rate that will be publicized by the Central Bank from time to time.
When they do receive these currencies whether they are Rands,
British Pounds or Euros, they must sell those currencies to the Central Bank. So, that is the arrangement and I think that for now this arrangement will work very well for us because we are not contemplating in the foreseeable feature to bring back the Zimbabwean dollar. We only do so when the macro-economic fundamentals are right, which is why the measures we are taking about the structure of our budget, parastatals reform of the State-owned enterprises, ease of doing business. When we think that all those things are in place then we start talking about the return of the Zimbabwean dollar. Right now, the Zimbabwean dollar in the foreseeable future is not coming. Thank you Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: At this time,
may I welcome new Ministers who have joined us, Minister Matangaidze from Public Service, Labour and Social Services and
Minister of State for Midlands Province, Hon. Machaya.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. Minister, regarding the current industries we have in our country, how far do you see us in terms of their performances achieving the ZIM ASSET objective in terms of value addition? I want you to tell the Senate the exact status.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. President, I would
like to thank Senator Makore for the question. I really wish that this question was put in writing because I would like to provide statistics and evidence based information on what I am going to say. The ZIM ASSET is talking much about value addition and beneficiation and as you recall, we were at the average of 30% capacity utilisation in general in all industries. You will be happy to know and I can provide evidence that in some sectors we are operating at 100%. In other sectors we are as high as 80%. Yes, we still have challenges in some sectors.
I am also happy to say that we have now identified, through the Confederation of Zimbabwe Industries Study, 12 value chains that we are going to be chasing and making sure that before the next reporting of the ZIM ASSET implementation, we will be reporting on them to show how far we have moved. So far, we do not have any arrows that are indicating backward in so far as meeting the deadlines of what is stipulated in the ZIM ASSET document. As I said, if you could please put it in writing, then we can give evidence based information. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NTABENI: Thank you Mr. President. My
question goes to the Minister of Industry and Commerce. Minister, this Senate wants to know the status of the sleeping giant ZISCO Steel. When is this sleeping giant going to operate in full swing? People of
ZISCO Steel are suffering Minister, shame! I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND
COMMERCE (HON. MABUWA): Thank you Mr. President. I agree
that the sleeping has been sleeping giant for too long and that is a cause of concern of Government as well as the people of Zimbabwe. We are not resting on the issue of ZISCO Steel. As you know once we had a deal that we were chasing with ESSAR which at the end of the day, fell apart because of the depressed prices in the market for the product.
Now, we did not sleep; what we have done now is that we have a Committee that is currently looking at the way forward and I am happy to say that we have identified other suitors. We are also looking at other strategies of not necessarily perhaps giving the possible suitors the whole outfit or the whole portfolio of the giant, but perhaps compartmentalising it or selling or attracting investors in special SBUs (Strategic Business Units) that are within ZISCO Steel. We are thinking that in that way, we are able to peacefully recover the ZISCO Steel. I cannot say at the moment how far we have gone with those suitors, but once the information is good for public consumption then we are going to be informing the nation. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, only last
year around February, I was sitting next to the Deputy Minister to my left. This particular issue was raised and she promised, but I was very surprised the way she handled the issue. She said that all the deals in ZISCO Steel had gone through and that by March last year, it would be fully operational. We raised supplementary questions as to the authenticity of what she was saying. She said in fact, you do not know that something was not happening at ZISCO but things are now in order. Now, I am surprised; she seems to be saying the contract which subsisted last year somehow something has changed in that contract. What do you do with a Minister who says, by March things will work and then come this year and says no I am coming with another explanation? Thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. MABUWA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. The Chief has spoken what – should be done to me. The Vice President, may give the direction as to what should be done – [Laughter.] – but what I am going to say is that Chief, as a woman I do not lose hope even if I go through a miscarriage. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- I will do the needful and work on conceiving and producing a child but it is up to the husband.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. The pending introduction of the bond notes, we have witnessed and have heard the levels of the misconception and misinformation. The levels are actually alarming. What more can we do to allay the general concerns, the dread, the fear over the perceived untimely re-introduction of what you referred to earlier on the ZIM dollar hence these panic withdrawals. What more can we do as a nation in order to allay the fears?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): We have done our best and
when I say ‘we’, it is between the RBZ and Treasury. We have done our best to allay the fears of individuals and stakeholders. We have been meeting a lot of professional groups. On my part and also on the part of the Governor of the RBZ, we have been able to meet CZI, BAZ, ZNCC, Chamber of Mines, Retailers Association, Lawyers Association and Accounts Association. We have been able to meet any group that wanted clarification and explanations. After we have explained, the key issue which emerges is that they all understand that we are in a unique position and that the US$ appreciating as it is, is not sustainable.
That we have to come with measures to ameliorate that situation, which is why the issuance of the bond notes and other measures that I have articulated including management of the foreign currency, prioritising the use of the foreign currency, stopping the leakages that have been happening, putting the limits on withdrawals and so on. When this crisis occurred and we were comparing ourselves with other countries, in particular the United States of America. We found that even the bank withdrawals even in the USA, you are not allowed to withdraw more than five hundred and yet they print money, but we do not. In our case, people demand that they should withdraw US$1 000.00, US$10 000.00 and yet we do not print the US$. I am saying that we are taking steps to allay the fears of everybody with respect to the issue of bond notes.
Even in our discussions with the multilateral institutions such as the IMF, World Bank and African Development Bank, we have explained to them that we want this process to be as transparent as it can be. We do not want to abuse this two hundred million dollar facility from Afreximbank and that we are prepared to talk about any mechanism to monitor, whether or not the issuance of those bond notes is relative to the volume of exports that are being generated. So, we have nothing to hide. Thank you Mr. President Sir. – [HON. SENATORS:
Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Doctors are refusing to treat patients on medical aid, especially the PSMAS.
When are you going to pay them so that people can treated? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you very much. I
have no straight answer for Madam Senator. All I can say is that there is a background to it. There was a time when what we paid to PSMAS was abused and mismanaged and it created a big hole in its finances. It is not easy to fill that hole. So, I would not want to give any specific indications but we have the capacity to fill that gap.
We continue to do our best to support PSMAS because all the civil servants basically are members of the PSMAS. We have also urged them to ensure that the orgainisation is properly managed. Those salaries that we read about cannot be sustained from the premiums that we are being paid and that basically is what has happened to PSMAS. We had a CEO or Chairman earning half a million, others forty thousand US dollar and so on. It was not sustainable, but I want us to understand that, that mismanagement and abuse of office created a huge hole in the finances of PSMAS and no matter what we give, it is like putting water into a bottomless pit. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] -
HON. SEN. MARAVA: Hon. Minister, we know that the law
does not operate in retrospect and we also agree that you are saying that we must not arrest ourselves and lock ourselves in the past. As for loses that would have been incurred, they live with you for the whole life.
How are you going to recoup the losses that you have incurred so far?
HON. CHINAMASA: First, let me explain that PSMAS comes
under the direct jurisdiction of the Minister of Health and Child Care. We are only providers of the resources but in terms of management, it comes under the Ministry of Health and Child Care. What I can only assure this august House is that we will leave no stone unturned to bring PSMAS back to life because we consider the welfare of civil servants paramount and we have to attend and ensure that their welfare is not prejudiced.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President, I propose that we extend Questions without Notice for fifteen minutes.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. The country is awash with rumour and information that young teachers and nurses are being recruited to go to South Sudan. Can you confirm and if so, how can we be sure that our people will be safe when they go to
South Sudan? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. President. I
want to thank the Hon. Senator for asking the question. I am gratified that the question speaks of rumour and information. The rumour part of it, I am sure because it is not the business of the House to deal with rumours. As to information, the matter that I am aware of relating to possible collaboration with the Republic of South Sudan relates to capacitating them to develop their own national curriculum system, and also assisting them in strengthening their national examination system.
That is what I am aware of.
We are also working with them to staff develop some of their school heads. Our proposal has yet to be material although it has gone through the relevant stages of approval in the Government system. We are at a stage where we have invited them to have a final look at the proposed MOU relating to those areas of cooperation. When that becomes operational, we would be making use of some of our retirees and for short stints, some of our expert inspectors and directors to ensure that we assist the sister Republic to set its own systems. They currently have a number of countries that have been collaborating with them in the region like Ethiopia, Sudan, Uganda, Kenya and so on. They are trying to carve a national system for themselves and they have made indications that they want to work with us to assist them. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. Hon. Minister, is there no collaboration between yourselves and the Republic of South Sudan on the issue of nurses and teachers being deployed to
Sudan? I thank you.
HON. DR. DOKORA: I will simplify the structure of the response. I said in relation to available information, what I can speak about with authority is information on the possible collaboration with the Republic of South Sudan in the areas that I have identified. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MABUGU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Can you do something to help those who apply for loans because when their loans are approved, there is a problem in withdrawing their money? Can you do something so that they can withdraw a little bit more than withdrawing US$200.00? When a person applies for a loan, he/she wants to do something bigger or buy something which needs a lot of money, but when it comes to withdrawing, a person needs more time to withdraw and then go and buy that thing or do a project. So, I am saying can you help us so that we withdraw a little bit more? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member
for her question. If I understand her question, it is that she makes an application for a loan which is granted and the application is for a big sum. She wants to withdraw it to buy bigger things. That is precisely what I have been saying that when you want to withdraw bigger amounts to buy bigger things, use the point of sale. Use plastic money.
This habit which is in us, that all of us here, if we count all the US$ in your pockets in this august Senate, we will find quite a substantial amount of money which is outside the banking system. That is what we are now fighting against.
So, when you receive a loan, be it US$10 000.00 and you want to buy machinery from down town, use plastic money. We are now insisting that we have point of sale machines in all the retail shops and all the businesses. We hope that we should be able to achieve an 80% by the end of July. I was encouraged to be informed that even at Siyaso, they now have point of sale machines. That is the direction and that is the way. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
HON. SEN. NCUBE: Thank you Mr. President. Can the Minister explain what plastic money is because some people do not know what plastic money is? Even myself, I did not know and I think the Minister has to explain because a lot of people do not know if he just says ‘plastic money’. Thank you.
HON. CHINAMASA: Let me use plastic money in its generic sense. In order to pay, you must have money in the bank. When you have got money in the bank, you can apply for an ATM card. So, if you go into TM, Pick and Pay or OK to buy your groceries, they will have point of sale machines in these businesses. They will swipe that card and if there is no money in the bank, in your account, it will say so and then that is the end of the sale – [Laughter.]- If there is money enough to pay for what you have purchased, then there will be a print out which will show that a sale has been concluded. So, that is what we call plastic money.
However, I want to extend it to one other form of plastic money.
You can also transfer through Real Time Gross Settlement (RTGS). You go to your bank; fill a form and the money will be transferred. If you are buying 10 000 bricks from Beta Bricks, you just fill in a form and the money will be transferred to the account of Beta Bricks. So, those are the forms which we call plastic money, it does not involve cash. Even in the United States, the amount of deposits, for instance they print US$35 trillion dollars but the only amount which will be circulating in cash will be just about 10% of that. They print the quantum to allow for just circulation and to buy petty things. So, I hope that I have satisfactorily explained what plastic money is. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MAPUNGWANA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Vice President and Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Mnangagwa. It is now 36 months after the draft Constitution was signed into law, which relates to 3 years. My question is, what is the time limit or deadline for all outstanding provisions of the Constitution to be implemented, taking into account that we are left with less than 18 months to go for another General Election? I thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Mr. President. There is no deadline. Out of the 299 Statutes in our books, we have so far aligned 159. We have identified about 200 Statutes requiring alignment and out of that number, 159 have been completed and processed through this House, through the General Laws Amendment Bill and other Independent Statutes. The ones that have not been processed are from line Ministries where Ministers have not been able to process in time the areas of their concern or mandate. However, with regards to such alignment relating to Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, the Government or the Executive directly, that has been completed. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development, Hon. Chinamasa. In view of the fact that any United States Dollar which may be brought into the country, gets mopped out because our neighbours need the United States Dollar as a store value; is it therefore, a prudent idea to continue housing regional trading giants who are continuously siphoning that United States Dollar out of the country, for example, Pick n’ Pay and many others? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMSA): Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa for her question. The regional trading giants whom you mentioned are welcome in our country but we started engaging them in discussion with respect to what they sell in their shops and where these goods are procured from. The strategy is basically to encourage that even if they are retailers coming from outside the country, they source a substantial amount of their goods locally, especially those goods which can be locally produced. So, through measures such as tariffs and tariff bans or goods that we ban, we are going to get to a situation where they will have no option but to buy locally. That is the discussion engaged in, with the likes of companies that you mentioned. We are also engaging them, for instance with respect to Pick n’ Pay, to say they must support out-growers especially in agriculture. Currently, the country is now in a position to produce sufficiently, a host of vegetables, carrots, cabbages, Irish potatoes, sweet potatoes, tomatoes and onions. We now have capacity through the measures that we took with respect to the tariff structure, to sufficiently produce those goods for domestic consumption and demand.
So, we are encouraging the likes of Ok Bazaars, TM and Pick n
Pay to support out-growers so that they have got a regular and reliable consistent supply of those goods and services. The issues that they raised of course are also pertinent and valid. They need supply which is regular, consistent, in the volumes as agreed in the contracts. So, that capacity needs to be build first and we are encouraging all of us here, to encourage the formation of associations which will make it possible for a group of farmers to dedicate themselves to producing say, onions and be able to supply on a consistent basis to the local retailers. We will not ban until we are clear that in fact those procedures and mechanisms are in place, otherwise we will also end up with shortages. There are also goods which we know we are not producing locally like grapes; clearly, we will continue to allow imports. We also do not sufficiently produce milk, so until we get to a position where we produce milk in sufficient quantities, we will continue to allow for import, in fact we have been allowing those imports.
So, Mr. President Sir, I thank the Hon. Member for her question and the answer basically is that the regional trader or retailers, who are here, are welcome but we encourage them and we are going to continue encouraging them to source their goods from local producers.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE DPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
PAYMENT PLAN THE MINISTRY HAS TO CLEAR ITS DEBTS
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to explain the payment plan the Ministry has to clear its debts for services rendered by Local Authorities to Government Ministries to enable them to improve service delivery and pay staff salaries.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I want to thank Hon.
Senator Chimhini for his question. As at 31 March, 2016, Government owed local authorities US$36. 8 million for rates and water services as per the attached Annexure ‘A’. I hope that the Hon. Senator and the august House can follow. I have attached an annexure setting out the amounts that are owed to each Municipality.
The major creditors are:
- City of Masvingo – US$16 671 786;
- City of Harare – US$16 499 618
- City of Bulawayo – US$1 940 044.
The Government Ministries’ debt to Local Authorities was US$18 504 639, US$17 420 281 and US$18 432 464 for 2013, 2014 and
2015 respectively.
Major debtor Ministries and departments are as follows:
- Zimbabwe National Army and Air Force of Zimbabwe;
- Zimbabwe Republic Police;
- Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Services;
- Government health institutions; and
- Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
Arrears to Local Authorities are mainly on account of the mismatch between consumption and our ability to pay, given our limited budget capacity. Members can refer to Annexure ‘B’ of my written response which illustrates this mismatch.
Treasury has and will however, continue to progressively reduce line Ministries and department’s arrears to Local Authorities by knocking off outstanding statutory tax obligations against these arrears.
Furthermore, Treasury is collaborating with both Government Ministries and department and Local Authorities on mechanisms of managing the consumption of water services, cognisant of structural infrastructural leakages and institutional wastage. We are also encouraging, for instance, that they put in place prepaid metres.
Mr. President Sir, cognisant of the core mandate of Local
Authorities in term of service delivery to communities, Treasury will continue prioritising payment to Local Authorities within the available Budget capacity. I thank you.
Annexure ‘A’: Local Authorities Outstanding Bills as at 31 March 2016
Local Authority | Amount |
City of Masvingo | 16,671,786 |
City of Harare | 16,499,618 |
City of Bulawayo | 1,940,044 |
City of Mutare | 347,140 |
Bindura Municipality | 247,605 |
Victoria Falls Town Council | 226,136 |
Chitungwiza Municipality | 189,521 |
Kwekwe City Council | 146,696 |
Chegutu Municipality | 137,322 |
Kariba Town Council | 100,426 |
Municipality of Redcliff | 96,053 |
Hwange Local Board | 62,321 |
Lupane Town Council | 57,360 |
Rusape Town Council | 49,099 |
Mvurwi Town Council | 21,205 |
Total | 36,792,333 |
Annexure ‘B’: Mismatch between Consumption and Ability to Pay
Year | Annual Billing | Budget Provision | Payments |
2013 | 25,067,024 | 13,063,400 | 39,546,711 |
2014 | 22,750,260 | 11,763,000 | 35,843,519 |
2015 | 19,504,482 | 13,370,000 | 13,448,584 |
JOBS CREATED SINCE 2013
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development;
- How many jobs have been created since 2013, towards the target of 2 million jobs;
- Which sectors have performed well in the creation of the said jobs.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Mr. President
Sir. The ZIM ASSET prioritises job creation as a key source for sustained economic growth and development, as well as poverty reduction and eradication.
Since 2013, support to all productive sectors inclusive of SMEs, were at the centre of our policy interventions, meant to grow the economy and hence create employment.
Results could not be to our expectations owing to limited domestic capacity, coupled with external restriction on Foreign Direct Investment
(FDI) and other supportive inflow which other countries currently enjoy.
As a result, employment in the formal sector declined from 1.1 million in 2010 to just under 1 million by the end of 2014, with many employees having, at one time or another, being retrenched.
While formal employment was declining, reflecting economic challenges, the informal sector was growing by leaps and bounds and has been able to absorb the majority of the retrenches.
According to the 2012 Finscope Survey, there were a total of 3.5 million businesses in the informal sector employing more than 5.7 million people. Breakdowns for annual average employment under the informal sector are unfortunately not readily available and we now have to wait for another Finscope Survey to tell us how many people are earning their livelihoods from the informal sector. I thank you.
REASONS FOR THE ABANDONMENT OF THE CHINAKA
BORDER POST IN HONDE VALLEY
- HON. SEN. CHIMHINI asked the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development to;
- Explain the reason for the abandonment of the Chinaka Border Post in Honde Valley which was constructed in 2002 and since then has been deteriorating;
- Give the total cost of the infrastructure at the border post and how Government intends to recoup the funds spent on the project.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I thank the Hon. Member
for his question. Mr. President Sir, Hon. Members may be aware that the Chinaka Border Post in the Honde Valley in Manicaland province was constructed in 2002 as an immigration crossing point that only facilitates movement of people. In terms of the Ports of Entry and Route Order, it is not designated as a Customs Border Post and as such ZIMRA has never been present at the Chinaka Border Post.
Mr. President, you must also be aware that the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works was responsible for mobilising the resources for the construction of the facility. ZIMRA had no resource input towards the construction of the border post. Any questions regarding the cost of construction of the border post should thus be directed to the relevant Ministry, which is the Ministry of Local
Government and Public Works. I thank you.
POLICY REGARDING COMPENSATION TO PEOPLE AND
LIVESTOCK THAT ARE ELECTROCUTED BY ELECTRICITY
CABLES
- HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to explain the Government policy regarding compensation to people and livestock that are electrocuted by electricity cables that would have fallen to the ground.
Let me register my gross discontent that this question has been on the Order Paper from October last year and it was quite an urgent question. I feel that the Minister responsible has been bunking responsibility.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU) on behalf of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. T. MUZENDA): ZESA has a public
liability insurance policy that compensates for losses incurred by members of the public where such losses are occasioned by faulty or malfunctioning of ZESA network equipment. All such losses are submitted to the insurer who administers the policy for payment of such claims. I thank you.
PENSIONABLE AGE FOR WORKERS IN THE PUBLIC AND
PRIVATE SECTORS
- HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA asked the Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Services to:
- Inform the House on the actual pensionable age for all workers both in the public and private sector.
- State the benefits that government has on offer for the workers to enjoy before pensionable age.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR
AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Mr.
President, I thank the Hon. Sen. Chief Musarurwa for his question.
Pensionable ages for members of the Public Service are as follows:-
- Members appointed before the 1st May, 1992 have a pensionable age of sixty-five years; and
- Those appointed on or after the 1st May, 1992 have a pensionable age of sixty years.
However, the Public Service Commission may, when it is in the interest of the Public Service to do so, permit a member whose pensionable age is sixty to continue to serve beyond the age of sixty for periods not exceeding one year at a time, provided that such member shall retire at the age of sixty-five years.
Our response to the second part of his question is:
Salary and allowances
Upon appointment into the Public Service, a member is entitled to a monthly basic salary that is paid in accordance to the grade the member has been appointed to. On top of the basic monthly salary, members are paid transport and housing allowances that assist members to be able to pay for their transport to and from work and also payment of their accommodation or rentals.
Representation allowance
The allowance is paid to members promoted to the posts of Deputy Director and above. This is to ensure that the members present themselves with dignity all the time as they conduct Public Service business, including dress code.
Manpower Development Leave (MDL)
Upon serving the Public Service for more than two years, members are eligible for consideration to go on study leave. Where it is on the initiative of the employer, members may proceed on paid MDL but when it is the member’s own initiative, he/she should proceed on MDL without pay in terms of the Commission Circular No.2 of 2015 as read with Section 40 of the Public Service Regulations, 2000.
Medical Aid
Members of the Public Service may join the Premier Medical Aid Society (PSMAS) upon appointment into the Public Service. This assists members to get treatment from medical practitioners including
PSMAS subsidiary medical institutions.
Funeral Assistance
When a member of the Public Service dies, the family members are paid funeral assistance which is currently pegged at $700.
Housing Loan Schemes
There are two housing loan schemes that are available for members in the Public Service. The schemes are administered through a revolving fund in order to ensure continuity. The schemes are as follows:
- General Scheme – for grades below Deputy Director grade. The
Scheme is administered by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
- Senior Officers Scheme – for Deputy Director grades and above.
The scheme is administered by the Ministry of Finance and Economic
Development.
Vehicle Loan Schemes
- Transport Purchase Fund for members below Deputy Director grade: administered through CMED (Pvt) Ltd with funding from Treasury. However, currently due to lack of funding, members have not been benefitting.
- Transport Purchase Fund for members in the Deputy Director grade: also administered through CMED (Pvt) Ltd. iii) Personal Vehicle Scheme for Directors- members are issued with vehicles for personal and official business.
- iv) Senior Officers Vehicle Purchase scheme for grades above the
Director, members are issued with vehicles for personal and official business.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT (HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA) in terms of
Standing Order No. 62.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): With leave of the House, I
move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 11, be stood over until Order
Number 12 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
SPECIAL ECONOMIC ZONES BILL [H.B. 15A, 2015]
Twelfth Order read: Special Economic Zones Bill [H.B.15A, 2015] THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, the Special
Economic Zones are an important pillar of Zimbabwe’s development strategy as enunciated in the Zimbabwe Agenda for Sustainable SocioEconomic Transformation (ZIM ASSET). The successful development of Special Economic Zones will contribute to Zimbabwe’s development goals while facilitating the utilisation of resources in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
Mr. President, the Special Economic Zones Bill seeks to create an enabling environment for the development of all aspects of Special
Economic Zones including:
- i) development of infrastructural facilities; ii) creation of incentives for economic and business activities in Special Economic Zones; iii) removal of barriers that negatively affect operations in areas designated as Special Economic Zones;
- the regulation and administration of activities within the Special
Economic Zones; and
- Transparency and compliance with regulatory requirements.
Mr. President, I now outline the aspects of the Special Economic
Zones Bill as follows: on the Institutional Framework
- Clause 3 creates an institutional framework in terms of which the
- Zimbabwe Special Economic Zones Authority is established whose operations shall be controlled and managed by a Board consisting of men and women with diverse skills and experience from both the private and public sector in line with Clause 5.
- Clauses 6 – 17 deal with various procedural matters relating to Board members, including vacation of office by a member, meetings and procedures of meetings and disclosure of interest of members of the Board.
- Clause 18 sets out the functions of the Authority which shall include:
- The establishment of SEZs in which export-oriented industrial activities will take place whether by way of manufacturing, processing or assembling of goods or providing services for the purpose of selling domestically or exporting such goods and services’ o To attract foreign direct investment into SEZs; o To grant investment licences for investment in Special Economic Zones; o To grant permits to developers of Special Economic Zone areas for infrastructure development including road works, information and communication technology works, water and electricity works; o To create a single institution through which applications for the approval of investment in Special Economic Zones shall be made and through all necessary approvals, licences and permits may be granted or issued in respect of approved investments;
- To monitor and evaluate the implementation of approved investments in Special Economic Zones.
Establishment of Special Economic Zones
In terms of Clause 20, the Authority may declare any area of premises to be a Special Economic Zone.
Application s for investment licences or developers permit.
Any person who wishes to obtain approval to invest in an SEZ, or for his or her business to be approved as an activity in an SEZ shall submit an application to the Authority in accordance with Clause 23.
Equally, any person who wishes to obtain approval to develop an area as an SEZ in which licenced investors will establish and conduct their operations, shall submit an application to the Authority in accordance with Clause 24.
Consideration of Applications for Investments Licences.
Clause 25 provides that in considering an application, the
Authority shall, among other things, have regard to:
- The extent to which the proposed investment will lead to creation of employment opportunities and the development of human resources;
- The degree of export-orientation or import substitution of the project;
- The impact of the proposed investment on the environment;
- The extent to which the proposed investment will result in transfer of technology as well as managerial and other critical skills;
- The extent to which the proposed investment will establish linkages within the domestic economy, value addition and beneficiation of local raw materials and industrialisation of the domestic economy.
The Authority shall, within 5 working days, approve or refuse to approve any application for an investment licence in line with Clause 26.
The Authority shall be required to keep a register of all investment licences according to Clause 29.
Power to Visit Premises and Inspect Documents
To ensure compliance, the Authority may, in terms of Clause 32, visit and inspect any premises having any connection with the investment or proposed investment referred to in the licence.
Funds of the Authority
The Authority should minimise dependency on budgetary support. Therefore, the Bill in Clause 46, provides for the Authority to levy some fees that will help to finance its operations.
Incentives Package
The Bill provides for general fiscal and non-fiscal incentives to licenced investors operating in an SEZ to be prescribed in accordance with Clause 58.
Regulations
The Bill makes provision for the Minister, after consultation with the Authority, to make regulations under the Act.
These regulations will include matters relating to the following, among others;
Fees payable for any application for a licence or permit or other service provided by the Authority, or charges levied by the Unit; Special incentive packages.
Mr. President, I now move that the Special Economic Zones Bill [H.B. 15, 2015] be now read a second time.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I thank you Minister, but I did not hear the area that talked on the rights of the workers that will be working in the Special Economic Zones and how the Labour Act will be applied. What is so special about those zones? Why should they not come and invest outside these zones?
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I just have a few comments. Firstly, can I stress the point made by Senator Komichi that the labour component me does not appear satisfactory and I suspect that the
Minister deliberately left it out because it is going to generate debate. Secondly tied with that, there is no tripartism in the legislation. I am concerned that two of the parties in the tripartite arrangement are forgotten. The Bill indicates that there will be no exchange controls. From what we discussed in terms of where we are from a financial point of view, because of extreme laxity which we have experienced; why should we continue to exempt Special Economic Zones totally from some exchange supervision? Minister, I would like to congratulate you on the timelines, I think you have set in very tight timelines for decision making. I think that is a plus for the Bill.
I am also worried maybe out of ignorance, why there are so many Government representatives on the board. Last but not least, I thought today it would be the in-thing, particularly for something that looks like a parastatal to have to specifically and clearly have the CEO on a contract term of service rather than giving the board the leeway to make the decision.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you Mr. President.
The two Senators, Sen. Komichi and Sen. Sibanda raised, the issue about provisions of the Labour Act, with the insinuation that employees working in Special Economic Zones will not be fairly treated. That is not so. Read Clause 56 in its entirety and not what the lower House sought to do, only to read sub-Clause 1 and leaving out sub-Clause 2 and then having to spent the whole afternoon going into a division merely because some people decided deliberately or unwisely to misinterpret Clause 56.
Clause 56 is very clear, the Labour Act and the Indigenisation Act not to apply in relation to licenced investors operating in an Economic
Zone. Then, sub-Clause 2 says, ‘The authority must, in consultation with the Minister responsible for the administration of the Labour Act, provide for rules for conditions of service, termination of service, dismissal from service and disciplinary proceedings that apply within every Special Economic Zone. In addressing why we have this provision, is basically, that we are going to the root, the core issue that is the ease of doing business. I will also be responding to the question that Sen. Sibanda raised. Why have a Special Economic Zone?
The answer in short Mr. President Sir, is that the problem about this economy is, we are not producing. I was looking at comparable figures just to see in terms of exports from this country. I was comparing it with Kenya, Zambia, Mozambique and so on. We are at the bottom and Kenya’s exports are US$20 billion, ours are around US$3 billion, Mozambique is around US$6 billion and Zambia is around US$11 billion, yet we are around US$3 billion. So, we need to accept the reality of our situation and the reality is that we are not producing.
These Special Economic Zones is one of many measures that we have to take in order to encourage people to come and produce on our territory in our country. In doing so, we hope if successfully implemented these foreign investors will bring capital which we do not have. A lot of challenges that we are facing in the economy is that there are no lines of credit at affordable interest rates to the productive sectors.
So we need to attract people who can bring capital into these Special Economic Zones. We need technology transfer; sometimes you can buy it but it is better to come through an investor who will come to employ our people and through that way, by osmosis, our people will gain and absorb that technology.
We also need from the foreign investor managerial skills. So, this whole Bill is intended to attract and make it attractive to foreign investors. In order to make that attraction better, we should not make things difficult for them. In other words, I know for instance in terms of payment of salaries, the salaries there will be much higher but generally the problem is when the World Global Market is not doing well, there must be flexibility which by the way we have already introduced in the
Labour Act. There must be flexibility to shed off or to increase. Otherwise, they will just fold their bags and go. So, I want us to understand that this is one of many measures to encourage foreign direct investment.
The issue about whether or not workers will be prejudiced, clearly the Minister responsible for Labour will not come up with regulations that will prejudice. The law is there and very clear. She must come up with regulations which are peculiar to Special Economic Zones.
Again, let me say the Authority when it is established, the Minister who is responsible for this Act must also come up with a package of incentives for foreign direct investments for investors to want to come into those zones. Some of the investments will include having to put in the necessary infrastructure first such as roads, electricity, ICT, water so that foreign investors are attracted to come into those zones. Some of the incentives will be obvious. In fact, I will take it as a matter of taking it for granted that they can disinvest at any time and repatriate their capital, that we should allow them.
During the time of their operation, clearly the foreign currency is a benefit to the country. The records will show that the exports from the
Special Economic Zones have boosted the country’s exports. What is also significant about the attraction of the foreign investors is that we are going to encourage to build linkages with the industries in the territory outside the Special Economic Zones. We want those linkages especially with respect to supply of raw materials, be it cotton, soya beans and what have you. So Mr. President, I want to say that I hope that my explanation is adequate for the Hon. Members not to withhold their support to the Bill.
Why so many Government representatives on the board? Mr. President, in order for things to happen, we need representatives from line Ministries who are relevant to make things happen faster. It is almost like you are One-Stop-Shop at ZIA which draws representation from the key line Ministries who are relevant to the decisions that the Authority has to take. This helps to take faster and quicker decisions and we are applying the same principle to the Authority. So if decisions are necessary to be taken for immigration such as work permits and what have you, they can be taken quickly because a representative from the
Ministry of Labour and Social Services will be there if the case arises, also from Passport Office and things like that. So this is intended to hasten the decision making process.
To put the Chief Executive on performance contract, I agree with you. I am going to be bringing to Cabinet, the Public State Enterprises Corporate Governance Bill. The Corporate Governance Bill is going to insist that Chief Executive officers are appointed in terms of a performance contract; that key issues are highlighted and targets and priorities which have to be achieved during the tenure of office of the Chief Executive officer. That Bill and its provisions will have cross cutting implications on all State enterprises and is going to be covered in that Bill. I thank you Mr. President Sir. –[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
SPECIAL ECONOMIC ZONES BILL [H.B. 15A, 2015]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 45 put and agreed to.
On Clause 46:
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Could I have clarification under 46(b)? Under what circumstances would the
Minister see the authority seeking further appropriations from Parliament except at the set up stage?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you for providing
me the answer. At the inception stage, we have to and we do not know at what stage it will be independent, sufficiently viable and standing on its own resources. That may take some time. I do not know what the period is going to be, but we envisage setting it up until it is fully operational and when it can fund itself from its own fees and charges.
Clause 46, put and agreed to.
Clauses 47 to 58 and Schedule Section 19, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
SPECIAL ECONOMIC ZONES BILL [H.B. 15A, 2015]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, I now
move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the Senate
adjourned at Sixteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 8th June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the
Chair)
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President. I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2016.
MOTION
DETERIORATION IN THE ROADS AND RAILWAY
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move the motion standing in my name; That this House:
CONCERNED at the alarming number of road carnage incidents on our roads which are as a result of dilapidated road infrastructure and obsolete motor vehicles coupled with human error due to flagrant breach of road regulations by unlicensed drivers;
FURTHER CONCERNED of the deterioration in the railway system in the country, a situation which is further compounded by the lack of efficient and economic air transportation system in the country;
ACKNOWLEDGING the need to establish a special budget / fund for upgrading and improving the transportation system in the country;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon government to:
- Embark on a robust modernisation infrastructure programme for roads, air and Railways which is user friendly and accommodative of goods services and passengers at large, a situation which will eliminate road carnage substantially.
- Support the development of an efficient and economic air transportation as a matter of urgency.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I second.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President. Given the carnage on our roads, I think it is prudent that the Government comes up with a robust infrastructure programme to modernise our railways, roads and airways. This Mr. President will go a long way to alleviate the carnage on our roads.
The wish and the desire here, which I call upon the Government to embark on, is to ensure that our road, railways and air are modernised. Modernity is the approach here which I want to put across. In modernity, there should the affordability, accessibility, accommodative and comfortable. The case at the present moment, our roads are antiquated and dilapidated. The highways in particular from Beitbridge – Harare – Chirundu, in fact all our five major highway need modernisation. It has become almost a ritual Mr. President that nearly every month there is a major road accident and the Government declares a national disaster, this is not pleasing. So many people die, this is all because as I said our roads need revamping. All other modern societies have embarked on highway reconstruction and construction of safer roads accessible and affordable to all like I said. This is not the case with us, the roads are narrow and they are causing so many problems.
In addition, there should be strict legislation regarding the issuing out of competence driving permits to persons to drive on our roads. Our legislation at the moment regarding the issuing of driving permits are weak to the point that anybody can just drive. In some cases a lot of them have been found to be driving defective cars. The importation of used cars is one the aspect which is also causing a lot of problem on our roads. Some of the imported cars are not road worth they come into the country unchecked without fitness certificates.. There should be strict legislation requiring fitness certificates from the countries where they come from. There should be agreements that any car before it gets into Zimbabwe, it must have a certificate of fitness. As it is at the moment there are so many cars driven on our road without having gone through the fitness requirement procedure. Currently, when you drive in any direction in Harare, it is so congested now. May be people and the economy are doing well, one wonders, there are so many cars but a lot of those cars are defective in one way or the other. It is either the brakes are not working or the tyres are defective when they go on the roads. Most of these cars use retreaded old tyres. As i said earlier on, legislation should strengthen to disallow such tyres to be imported into Zimbabwe. We should be a bit stricter to arrest this carnage on our roads. Really it is worrying. We are losing a lot of our loved ones. It does not pay really for us to go to a funeral all the time. Really, something has to be done.
In this regard, I call upon the Government to establish a road fund. There is ZINARA but ZINARA alone looks like it cannot cope. It must be buttressed by other agents with funding to ensure that the roads are maintained and widened and they are safe. The railways should be modernised to ensure that they are fast, affordable, accommodative and safe. The modernisation of railways would facilitate that three quarters of our traffic both passenger and goods is moved to the railway system. It has been done in other countries; you have what you call the magnetic levitation type of railway system like in Japan, England and America. The trains are of such a speed that you move very quickly and they are affordable that people prefer to use them. A distance from Harare to Bulawayo can be undertaken in one and a half hours. This is all as a result of modernisation. The railway system should be geared towards carrying the bulk of the passengers. At the moment we are having lot of problems Mr. President. It really saddens us because we are losing very skilled people. The population is already low. Something has to be done regarding our roads, railways and air transportation.
Funding, I know, the majority of my colleagues here, the Hon. Members will say where is the money going to come from. True there maybe the issue of sanctions here but we are being invited year in, year out. Recently, in 2014. There was a delegation that was led by the President of the Senate and I was part of the delegation to Jordan invited by the Parliament Senate of the Arab World. At the seminar, we were informed that the financial institutions in the Arab world have got a lot of money. If we can actually visit them, they are prepared to give us money for infrastructure and agricultural development. This way we can by-pass the sanctions. They told us, look, you are our colleagues and if you come, we can give you the money; the money is there, for infrastructure development and agriculture.
Mr. President, yesterday Hon. Mumvuri moved a motion here.
They went to Addis Ababa and I think it is the same forum of the Arab World. Who organised a seminar or summit in Addis Ababa at which they were also told that there is a lot of money and why do you not come to us and we assist you with finance for infrastructure development, agriculture, et cetera. You do not have to go begging all the time to the
IMF and the World Bank who in any case do not like you. The IMF and World Bank always say look, Zimbabwe, your human rights record is not good because you grabbed the farms owned by whites. Due to that, the American Government went on to declare ZIDERA. ZIDERA was imposed on Zimbabwe because their democracy is not democracy in
Zimbabwe. Therefore, we cannot access funds through the established channels. So, the only other way is going the other route to get the money for development and for infrastructure.
The issue of sanctions is difficult matter for the American Government, it is not something that they can easily remove like what the EU can do. The EU is a club of Parliaments. They can easily make an agreement and do it. They do not have to go to their National
Parliaments to say can you remove sanctions. They can just agree. Even then, they have a lot of problems. England only says we are removing sanctions but they do not.
For the American Government, everything has to go through Congress. In Congress will people ask, is there any democracy in
Zimbabwe that you now want us to remove sanctions? Even any President of goodwill; it can be Obama or anybody else will find it very difficult to justify that they remove sanctions. So, that route of waiting for the IMF and the World Bankto give us money is difficult, I think Mr. President, let us just abandon it. Let us go to those nations that are friendly. Those who are willing to give us money are there. I bear witness; we went to Jordan and the delegation that b went to Addis Ababa a week ago were told by the Arab delegation that money is there for development, I believe that if we follow the necessary procedures and we court our friends in the Arab world. They should be able to assist us in providing us with funds for building, reconstructing and mordenising our railways, road transport and our air ways.
Mr. President, it is disheartening sometimes to hear that Air Zimbabwe is now plying the route to Victoria Falls and Dar es Salaam and after a week, we hear they have been grounded again because the equipment at the airport is not working or IATA says you do not comply to IATA regulations. Last week, the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development went to Dar es Salaam to say Tanzania is our friend, that route is important and we are re-opening it. This piece meal development or way of doing things is just not good for us Mr. President. Why do we not just approach this in a comprehensive manner and go to the people who will give us money so that we embark on modernization programmes and substantive development programmes.
Mr. President, I think with those few words, I rest my case. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to second this very important motion which was moved by Senator Musaka. Mr. President, let me start by saying, the operative word here is modernisation of our road network. The railway lines are there but have not been used for years. It is saddening to note that every two weeks, we hear that there has been an accident and a number of people died as a result of road accidents. What is also saddening is the fact that the accidents are head on type of collisions. What that basically means is that something is wrong. In my view, what is wrong is that our roads are not up to scratch. Our roads are too narrow. In this region, it is in Zimbabwe where you still hear people dying from head-on collisions. In other countries, they have widened their roads. Where you hear of a road accident, it is because the driver was speeding or was under the influence of some drink.
Mr. President, it is therefore the proposal of this motion that the Government looks carefully and looks back into our road network system. A couple of years ago, we had a train running from Mufakose into the city centre and another one was introduced from Mabvuku into the city centre and it was a noble idea. If we were to re-introduce that system, the number of accidents that we witness almost every other week would be a thing of the past because that would reduce the number of cars, kombis, mushika – shika and all these types of small cars that now ply our roads. As it is, you cannot ban these transporters from carrying people into town because there is no sufficient and efficient transport to move them from their areas into the city centre. Mr. President, the other point which should be considered carefully is the idea which has been raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka, that of a Certificate of
Competency. In other jurisdictions, there are merely known as MOT – Ministry of Transport Certificates. Every year, every car has to be inspected and certified, particularly the public service vehicles by the
Ministry of Transport to ensure that they are in good order.
The other point Mr. President is that, we have seen our people die like any other time before, is the fact that we are lumped with substandard tyres from all over the world - most of them second hand and those that are not second hand are substandard. They are substandard because maybe the way they were manufactured was that the climate is cool but when they come in a hot country like Zimbabwe, new as they maybe, they easily burst, resulting in deaths of our people.
Mr. President, it is also important to look back and say, many years ago, we had our tyres manufactured in this country. They were tyres which were made and designed to suit the climatic condition of our own country and it is very saddening to note that Dunlop who were the manufacturers of our tyres has now become a shell of its former self. It is therefore important that, we look and take note of the fact that there is need to revisit the issue of manufacturing of tyres in this country if we want to save the lives of our own people.
Mr. President, I have already mentioned the idea of the railway as a best means of moving large numbers of people from wherever they reside. It is important also to note that in this country it is not possible for anyone who lives say, in Kwekwe to come and work in Harare. Whereas in some areas, people travel several hundreds of kilometers from where they live and come to work and then in the evening go back because there are trains which are fast and efficient. I am not suggesting that we copy what is happening in Japan where they have these Bullet Trains but for starters, we could start to use our own diesel trains or revisit the idea of electric trains. We had a train that ran from Gweru to Harare, if that could be extended to Bulawayo, it would then be possible for anyone to live in Bulawayo and come to Harare. We are suggesting this because we believe that that will then reduce the number of accidents on our roads.
I also want to venture and suggest that the other major reason why accidents in this country are so common is that most of our cars, kombis for instance, are given to the charge of youngsters. I am told that the age limit or is it the minimum age for anyone to drive a kombi is 25 years.
Crankily speaking, when I was 25 years of age, I never believed that if I was driving a car, it would get out of my control and bump into a tree or into a bridge because I always thought that I was so efficient. And at any rate, it was something that was not common in my head.
What I am suggesting therefore Mr. President is that, why do we not consider increasing the age of all those who drive public transport from the current 25 years to 35 years? I am talking about the minimum age. I believe that at 35 and I believe that the majority of us and everyone here is over 35. At 35, you begin to fear and understand that anything can happen and you begin to worry about those who are in your car and about yourself. But below that age, you just feel that anything is possible.
Mr. President, you will also notice that the majority of the accidents that we have seen even in town, if you were to check the ages of those drivers, they are all youngsters. This is why there is this suggestion that we should increase the number of years for those who want to drive public service vehicles.
That we now have a lot of accidents can also be attributed to the increase in our population. Because the population has increased, we also need to ensure that the roads that we use are also widened and made possible for the number of vehicles that now ply our country. Let me conclude by saying, whilst it is common knowledge that the Government has no money, I think that we need to look back and say what is it that we want to consider important – the lives of our people or other issues. I would submit Mr. President that we should look at the lives of our people first before we can think of other issues. In other words, let us look at the state of our roads in the country and then that way we will be ensured that we save the lives of our people. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I would want to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Musaka and the seconder, Hon. Sen. Chipanga. As Hon. Sen. Chipanga was debating, I
was thinking that I would not stand up as he was talking about what I also wanted to talk about. This motion is telling us that deaths due to road accidents are on the increase in our roads. We used to think this would happen in highways only, but now it is happening everywhere even in towns. In the last few days, we were talking about the accident at Girls High School where school children were just walking from school, they are grown up, but you see them being knocked down by cars. This shows that it is no longer the infrastructure that we are talking about but the human aspect as well, which they have referred to as competence. Are they not under the influence of drugs which they think will make them wiser? This motion is welcome because it is also talking about air transportation system. We are thankful to the fact that our country has a good track record when it comes to air transportation system because we have not experienced fatalities in this sector, save for a few planes that have failed to take off or land due to technical faults. What we want is modernization, so that we get state-of-the-art aeroplanes depending on affordability.
We want to thank the Government for putting in place the
ZINARA Fund which was established for the rehabilitation of our roads.
We can see that there is an improvement on our road network although some of the roads are dilapidated. If they remain focused on their task it will be good for us because the roads that they have rehabilitated have attracted the standard of Formula 1 driving where we are seeing drivers speeding because of the good roads. We need more monitoring on our roads by the police to curb road carnage because our people believe in speeding.
Even on the narrow roads, this other day I was travelling on a strip road where ordinarily you drive very carefully but the kombis were speeding as if they are driving on a good road. They do not care about the state of the roads because all they are concerned about is their daily target. There are now more vehicles on our roads but most of them are defective. They are not roadworthy. These are what we call jalopies which are an obsolete ramshackle.
You are all aware that sometime ago Government put a ban on the importation of vehicles which are older than five years but there was a huge outcry in this country. Most people implored the Government to lift the ban since everyone’s dream of owning a car would not be realised. As I speak now, there are some vehicles which operate using a makeshift fuel tank. A plastic container is attached to a vehicle and the owners of these vehicles do not care. Some of the vehicles do not have batteries and starters, they use push-starts and others do not have brakes.
They use their legs to stop the vehicles, as if they are riding on a bicycle.
Given such a scenario we cannot stop the prevalence of accidents. In the evening from 1800 hours, the police will not be patrolling the roads and that is when you see vehicles that do not have headlights and indicators. They only travel at night. They will be driving recklessly and you do not have to compete with them. We are urging the police to do their work and make sure that there is sanity on our roads.
During our time, we knew that during holidays all buses had to have a fitness certificate from Vehicle Inspection Department before plying their routes. No bus would enter Mbare Musika without a certificate of fitness. The police would be monitoring that but these days anyone can drive on the road with their buses because there is brisk business.
We now have a lot of kombis on our highways, hence more competition. They are competing with everyone, including small vehicles and buses. I think we need to interrogate and justify whether we need kombis to travel from Bulawayo to Mutare - to and fro. These long distances cause fatigue to drivers which again contributes to accidents.
We should look at these laws whether they should continue like this. This issue of human error which they referred to as flagrant breach of road regulations by unlicensed drivers has to be looked into because these ones do not regard regulations as well. In most cities we have one way roads but you see them driving against one way.
We are always talking about the rule of law only when it comes to issues that concern Government, but it is aspect for us people - what are we doing in order to realise rule of law? What role are we playing for our country to develop? It is not only about the road or the railway track but what are we doing as a nation? When accidents occur we are only concerned about the National Disaster Fund and whether the Government provided the victims with coffins or whether the people have been compensated.
We should modernise our roads and teach our people that we should be competent drivers. They have talked about certificate of competence, they are needed everywhere from the driver, the vehicle and the owner of the vehicle. The owner should also be accountable and charged when he gives his vehicles to incompetent drivers. The culprits should not only be fined but incarcerated.
I want to agree with Senator Chipanga when he referred to the issue of tyres. It has also to do with affordability because Dunlop tyres are expensive. Some of the tyres cost between $200 and $500 and they are out of the reach of many. People end up buying tyres which are around $60. We should look at revamping our industries so that we make our own tyres which are suitable to our own conditions. Due to hot conditions in Beitbridge we have seen the tyres melting because they do not adapt to our conditions. This should be looked into so that we are at peace when our relatives are travelling. You find that some of the vehicles are overloaded, that is why they experience these tyre bursts. Also, the question of servicing our vehicles, we cannot afford to service our vehicles.
I am not going to dwell much on the railway lines because the movement of goods and services along the railway lines was of assistance to us, but these days, you find that our industries are not functioning so, there are no goods trains which are plying those areas.
We are however; very happy because yesterday we heard Hon. Chinamasa saying that he is going to revamp our trains. So, we hope and trust that it will come to be fulfilled. Also the issue of freedom trains is welcome to Zimbabweans, especially those from Mufakose, Mabvuku and Ruwa. We just hope that they will be returned because this is what ZIM ASSET is looking at. So, we will keep on talking until it happens. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the chance to make my contribution on this motion, which was raised by Hon. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Chipanga. We are looking for ways and means how as Zimbabweans, we can avoid the fatal and destructive accidents which are happening and causing road carnage on our highways. Are there any other ways of constructing user friendly roads because at the moment, our roads are in a bad state?
Mr. President, this is a very sorry state of affairs. Hon. Musaka, in his address talked about the many problems we face and the carnage on our roads, but in as far as I am concerned, it is up to us as the people of Zimbabwe. We are the only ones who can take care and protect ourselves from these road carnages. Let me take an example of what is occurring in the country of Canada, in North America. I read in one of the newspapers that there is a law which prohibits people from carrying out window shopping in some areas. In Canada they call it loitering because they say that by window shopping one is loitering. You should be organised in such a way that when you leave your home, you go straight to the shop where you want to buy whatever item you want to buy. People in Canada are now following that and as a result, they are not convicted of that loitering.
The other country I will take as an example is Spain. There is a place where you can go for a stroll and the people there were so smart that they did not want people to see soiled streets and as a result, whenever horses, cows or any other animals were used as drought power, they were dressed in napkins or diapers so that the dung was collected in diapers and not on the streets.
We also need to look at the drivers who drive our commuter omnibuses. There should be an age limit such as 30 years, but what we should also consider, besides the age limit is, does the driver have driving experience? We should also ascertain whether this driver is capable of undertaking night driving. In the past it was unheard of that a person had been run down by a commuter omnibus. In the area where I come from, in Sengwe, there was an old lady who was run down by a commuter omnibus, which only shows the recklessness, which is happening in our country. In as far as I am concerned, our roads are excellent.
We also have another type of a car which is called the automatic. Yesterday some of us were praising manual gear changing cars because it is said they keep the driver awake in order to change the gears, but if it is an automatic, you simply start your car and then you move without paying any attention on the road. The same goes for the good and straight roads in the country. Drivers become so careless that they simply start the car and go straight wherever they want to go because the roads are good.
We need to look at the railway system for transportation of our goods instead of the roads. In developed countries, what I am not sure of is, is it the age of the people, the manufacturers of these items or whether the people are up to date. We have realised that in these developed countries, the so called trains which are said to be good are now involved in accidents. Even planes are involved in lots of accidents. We need to look at the reason why we have all these problems.
Mr. President, I will come back to Zimbabwe. In Zimbabwe there is unemployment because a lot of companies were shut down as a result of the illegal sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe. Whenever someone gets money to spend, they buy cars and put them on the road as commuter omnibuses or for ferrying goods, so that they earn a living from that. I am pleading with the people of Zimbabwe to find ways to tackle this problem and reduce road carnage in our country. We need to put our heads together.
A commuter omnibus, whenever it stops at a pickup or drop-off point, we need to have police officers who will be carrying out in-loco inspection to check whether the driver is not getting drunk. We need to look at what is happening because we have people who are dying on the roads. So, we need to look at the reasons why this road carnage is happening. We have talked of the articulated lorries, especially the Harare to Chirundu roads. These lorries should be stopped from moving on the roads in the evenings. You will notice that these drivers get to a bottle store, park their lorries, drink some beer and then proceed on their journey. So, if we are looking at putting police officers at bus stops, we should respect them as they check if drivers were drinking and then wanting to drive. The reasons for their action should then be communicated to the driver’s employers.
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. We need to
look at what is happening on our roads. Motorists have to move at a particular set down speed limit such as 80 kilometers on dead narrow roads and 100 kilometers on wide and tarred roads. Mr. President, when you observe what is really happening on the road we do not see any bus which is travelling within the speed limit of 80 kilometers or 100 kilometers, but the traffic police will be on the road and they do not punish these drivers. I think the fines which are paid are not deterrent enough to stop these drivers from travelling beyond the speed limit. So, we need to put fines which are really effective.
The other thing is that as Zimbabweans, we should be aware that when we are travelling at 100 kilometers per hour, we will definitely get to our destination. Unfortunately, as Zimbabweans, we have heard some people complaining that if the driver is travelling at 100 kilometers or below, they say he is too slow and some even offer to disembark from such a bus.
The other unfortunate thing is that we have some bus owners and even Members of Parliament who encourage their drivers to move faster than the stated speed limit. We need to do something. We need to educate our drivers not to travel at such high speed and move at the required speed.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to make my contribution on this motion, which was raised by Hon. Sen. Chipanga and seconded by Hon. Sen. Musaka. I will only make a few additions because most of the issues have been raised by my fellow Parliamentarians. This is not a new motion Mr. President. We even debated this type of motion in the Seventh Parliament. We said our roads should be people friendly and safe because in the past, our roads were so full of potholes. They were not only full of potholes but they were also narrow.
Mr. President, when you look at the Zimbabwean roads, they are not only used by people of Zimbabwe, they are also used by international transporters, with goods being transported from South Africa to Malawi or Angola. They all use our roads. We had a motion which was raised by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri, which was talking about Africa developing its infrastructure and not depending on other countries because we have abundant resources in this country.
We also have organisations like SADC and other bodies which are there in Africa. Talking about our history of the colonisation of Africa, Cecil John Rhodes had a vision that he wanted to construct roads from Cape to Cairo. Mr. President, I am urging the countries of Africa to look at the roads within their countries, especially when we talk of the SADC countries. When we have issues which have to be brought before Parliament, they should include construction of roads. Let us not only think of borrowing monies or getting monies from western countries. We need to have institutions which will develop the road infrastructure because these roads do not just belong to the Zimbabweans and are not only used by the Zimbabweans but they are international roads, which are used by other countries.
We need to have dual carriageways so that cars do not come face to face on the same roads. Dual carriageways will mean these cars will be on the other side moving on their own direction. We know that at times some of these accidents happen because of lack of attention. Again, our roads are so narrow that if a driver does not pay attention, he will get involved in an accident. An Hon. Senator also raised the issue that we have some of our drivers who are driving and yet they are below the required age limit. Mr. President, not only that, I have also noticed some people dumping their trash on the roads when driving their cars and yet we know we are not supposed to be dumping rubbish onto our roads.
We have also noticed that some of these things happen even when our police officers are manning these roads. We need to impose stiffer penalties on people who dump rubbish on the roads. We also have pedestrians who are so careless that they will stand on the road and stop the cars so that they can board and go wherever they want but these drivers will simply stop right in the middle of the road to pick up passengers. They are so careless that they do not care what other drivers will feel about them stopping in such a hazardous manner. I urge our police officers to quash these bad habits.
I will now turn to ZIM ASSET; roads are essential for the development of a country but because of the nature of our roads, we move at a slower pace, in such a way that instead of travelling on a journey within an hour it may take you up to three hours. We need to construct good roads. I know some of you will say if the roads are so straight, people will go to sleep but I am saying we do agree that roads are development. Therefore, we need to have very good infrastructure in the country.
Mr. President, the roads of Africa should be constructed in such a way that they are user friendly. The countries of Africa should put their heads together and work towards the improvement of the roads. This is going to enhance the development of our country. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I shall not waste time because most of the points which I wanted to speak on have been debated. I totally want to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Sen. Musaka and the seconder, Hon. Sen. Chipanga. Their motion is calling upon us and Government and I quote:
- “to embark on a robust modernisation infrastructure programme for roads, air and railways, which is user friendly and accommodative of goods and services and passengers at large, a situation which will eliminate road carnage substantially.
- support the development of an efficient and economic air transportation as a matter of urgency”.
I totally agree with the aims of the motion. However, as other people have already spoken, I think these would achieve something in the long term. In the short term, we have to put something in place as alluded to by the previous speakers. One thing which I want to point out is that we agree that most of the carnage on our roads at the moment is being caused by human error which includes driving without due care, speeding, poor judgment such as overtaking errors are causing that. Hon. Sen. Tawengwa rightly pointed out a recent incident in Harare that claimed two innocent lives due to negligent driving.
Then a special population of drivers is emerging in the urban centers as we are seeing, that is the kombi drivers. They have been left to illegally takeover the proceedings on most of our roads. This is really deplorable and something should be done urgently. I am following with keen interest to find out the punishment that is going to be meted on the 41 years old driver. He was nabbed after crossing the border, he knew what he did was wrong and I think the penalties should be very stiff so that they deter would be offenders.
Another thing which we might want to propose in the short term is that there be enough public education and awareness among our people. The commuters should desist from boarding unroadworthy vehicles. I think Hon. Senators Tawengwa and Chimhini made reference to those things. Public awareness is very important for us to also help reduce the road carnages.
The last speaker made reference to people singing and blowing whistles, thus urging drivers to drive illegally, yet the laws amply state that we must drive safely with due care. I totally support this motion but I think we must find immediate solutions to what is happening at the moment on our existing roads. Suffice to say air transportation must be developed, it is an expensive mode of transportation given our current economic situation. We are not yet at that stage to use air travel. I think only countries like the United States of America can afford to do that.
In the immediate future, as we said, the ZIM ASSET sets out exact parameters on what to do. ZIM ASSET states that things start with you at your home before they spread to district, province and the nation. That is the way we should go. I totally support this motion but we must all be participants in it in order to reduce the carnages we are witnessing at the moment. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President for the opportunity you have given me to make my contribution. I would like to thank the movers of this motion Hon. Sen. Musaka and Hon. Sen.
Chipanga.
A previous speaker stated that this is not a new motion and as the problem of road carnage was debated before he even joined Parliament to no avail. I have just come from a Breakfast Meeting that was held at the Crowne Plaza. We were informed of Acts and other legal issues and Parliament was accused of being a toothless bulldog. We are amongst the people who are blaming the Government yet we are also to blame. It is up to us to be resolute and make a change so that we are not just a talk shop but doers.
The way people are dying due to road carnages really pains me. Looking from the period January to June 2016, at any given accident, we have deaths of more than 10 to 15 people. The main perpetrators are the commuter omnibuses and these other small cars. As stated by Hon. Sen. Makore, the buses plying the Harare to Mutare route are so fast that you cannot believe that they are passenger ferrying buses. There are so many buses plying the Harare to Mutare route.
We also have these big haulage trucks plying the same route and the Mushika-shikas that have been removed from the Central Business Districts (CBDs) and are now plying the Harare to Mutare route. The Elgrands, Noahs and Ipsums should be inspected and given the routes they should follow because we have many people who cannot be ferried by these transporters. When a bus is on the road, it should be given a permit, public insurance and everything that protects the passengers. These smaller cars that ferry people are not even able to pay for the treatment of injured passengers, let alone bury the deceased.
As an august House, let us remove the commuter omnibuses and
Mushika-shikas from our highways so that they ferry commuters in the
CBDs. Some of our roads such as the Harare, Beitbridge, Mutare and Chirundu roads are good but others are in a deplorable state. We are always calling for the dualisation of our carriageways. Some of the big haulage trucks that ply our roads are on overload even if you do not know what overload is, you can tell that the trucks are overloaded. As a result, it tips over and people are either injured or die and sometimes innocent people suffer due to such recklessness.
We have been following up on the progress by the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. He is moving up and down the country conducting in loco inspections of the roads and calling for progress. The only deterrent factor that may be applied is the imposition of heavy penalties on road traffic offenders. We also need to look at competency of the surviving drivers because the accident rates are so high. When the driver survives an accident, the vehicle owner should have their operation licence revoked. In the case of small cars, the driver together with the owner of the car must be penalised. This is the only successful deterrent measure that we can take.
This used to happen during the Smith regime but as people fighting against colonisation, we thought it was cruelty to human beings but what we are saying is, please, let us impose heavy penalties or fines on convicted offenders. I thank you. Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving
me the opportunity to add my voice on this motion raised by Hon. Musaka. When I talk of this motion and look at the condition of the roads in Masvingo and the number of vehicles plying on that route, we simply say, this is manna from heaven. When I was coming from my constituency, I got to a police road block along the way and there were cars which were criss-crossing on the roads. The police officers advised me to pass through but I had to stop and asked the police officers how they had wanted to go through such a road block when cars were crisscrossing the road in such a manner. I therefore appeal to the people who are responsible for the police that whosoever is in charge of these roads, the cars should be moved out of the road so that the road is clear. They should not stop cars right in the middle of the roads.
The Harare – Beitbridge is one of the worst roads. It is full of potholes that need to be repaired. Also, the speed that is used by bus drivers is too much. At one time I was overtaken by a bus called InterAfrica. I was travelling at a speed of 120km per hour but that bus still overtook me. There is a song that was sang by Chimbetu called “batai munhu”, and I am saying these people should be arrested and receive heavy penalties.
The problem with speed control is that, the bus drivers give each other signals that there is a road block in front and therefore, they reduce speed. Near Beatrice, there is a bridge near the cattle farm. The place was so full of commuters who wanted to pass through and I just could not pass through. I had to talk to the police men who had to clear the road so that I pass through. I was informed that there had been an accident; a car had fallen into the river. I had to plead with the police officers that when such an accident has occurred, policemen should be on the scene to control traffic. We have situations whereby other drivers may not know what has happened and they come travelling at a speed which may be dangerous to other users of the road.
This motion is very vital to avoid road carnage. Cars should be taken to the Vehicle Inspection Department (VID) and this used to happen. Cars would be inspected at the VID. Our cars are now aged and some of these cars which are imported from Japan have been at the sea for quite some time and sea water erodes some car components. When these youths drive cars, they do not want to be overtaken by a lady and they drive at such speeds as 140 to 160km per hour. As a result, we lose a lot of lives.
The same problem occurs during school holidays when there are huge volumes of traffic because of children travelling from schools to their homes and vice-versa. There are lots of accidents that occur.
People are maimed and die. We need to look at the cause of these accidents. We also have problems with commuters of buses or lorries; they urge drivers to drive fast because they want to get to their destinations. That is putting people in danger. I therefore have to thank Hon. Musaka and Hon. Chipanga for raising such an emotional motion.
This is very essential. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 9th June, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE FIRST AFRO-ARAB
LEGISLATORS AND BUSINESS SUMMIT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on the motion on the report of the First Afro-Arab Legislators and Business Summit held in Addis
Ababa, Ethiopia.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAVHUNGA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me the chance to make my contribution on the report raised by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri. I would like to say thank you for such a meeting which was held by Members of Parliament from the Pan-African countries and
Arabian countries. There were also business people at that conference. The aim of this conference was pulling and working together in the development of African countries. It was also seen that Africa has a lot of natural resources and human resources. This includes the people of Zimbabwe who are highly rated in education. Despite such endowment of natural resources, Africa is still a poor continent.
It was also stated that in Africa, there was no democracy but corruption was rampant. I believe that Zimbabwe, is one of the countries which is really working hard in fighting all these obstacles. I will look at the case of anti-corruption. We have established a Commission so that we can fight this cancer in our society. In order for us to develop as a country, we need to fight and eradicate corruption. As Zimbabweans, we have taken a step ahead by developing the AntiCorruption Commission. We have also put some systems that will fight this corruption. What we need now is to implement these policies because policies should not just be a talk show but they should be implemented. We also want to look at rules and regulations which are existing. When we want to develop our country, we had come from a workshop in Bulawayo where we were talking of the ease of doing business. This means that we need to create regulations which will enable even outsiders from coming to invest in Zimbabwe. This also calls for Zimbabwe to have a rethink on the indigenisation policy because it is said to be deterring outsiders from coming to invest in
Zimbabwe. We were told of lack of democracy in other countries but Zimbabwe is practising democracy because we hold elections as per schedule – every five years. This shows that we are different from other countries.
Also talking of conflicts, Zimbabwe is one of the very peaceful countries, unlike what is happening in other countries. Zimbabwe has even afforded the idea of sending our police or military personnel to maintain peace in other countries. We therefore need to work hard in maintaining the peace and tranquility in our country. We need to spread this message of peace to other countries and what we need is to work toward the development of our country. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. A. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. President. The report
that has been tabled in this Senate has actually brought so many things that we need to take into consideration and might help our country in improving our situation. One thing that is important that was mentioned in this report is that, it also touches on the meetings that are held in other countries with themes that are so important that can help in improving a country’s economy. But, we realise that even the resolutions that are passed in those meetings are just blueprint documents and are not implemented. If we can only implement all the resolutions that are passed in all the conferences that are held. I hope that Zimbabwe as a nation will follow and implement all the resolutions that are passed so that some of them might help in trying to improve the situation of our economy.
I realise that the report that was tabled in this Senate also touches on the issue of Africa being a very good continent when it comes to tourism. I realise Mr. President Sir, that there are so many people who come from different countries for tourism especially observing our wild animals. I also take into consideration that there are some people, especially the tourists who come all the way from their countries to places like the Victoria Falls, Matobo or Great Zimbabwe to view the beauty of our nation. This is a sign that Africa is a very good continent when it comes to tourism. I mentioned Zimbabwe only but, generally Africa is a very good continent for tourism.
Mr. President Sir, I also take into consideration that, this report touched on the issue of batter trade that can be made in our countries within the African continent. What exactly is it that we are doing in Africa as a continent. Can we really say we have good quality of the things that we produce in our continent? One thing that is important is not about producing many things but, about producing things that have good quality when it comes to selling. This will help to improve our continent and we can sell to each other as countries within the African continent or even extend to other continents.
The report also touched on the issue of the youth being educated on the work that they can do in trying to improve their lifestyle. We always mention that we will create so many jobs but one question that I always pose is, as an African continent, what exactly is it that we want? Do we want Europe to come back and create the jobs for you or as an African continent; we can create the jobs or create opportunities for the young people to have jobs.
Mr. President Sir, I will be happy if especially in this Senate if we can have one of the Senators standing up to say from my Constituency, there is a project that I am doing where it has created opportunities for jobs for the youth, for example say 100 jobs without the Government getting involved. Creating job opportunities does not mean that we have to always involve the Government but it is a task for everyone, especially to us as leaders. We are supposed to create job opportunities, especially for our youth.
Mr. President Sir, it is also important that the youths should learn how to do jobs on their own so that they can create employment for themselves. They are also supposed to attend the vocational training centrres. Even in our vocational training centtres, we are supposed to support them so that the lecturers who will be teaching those students in the vocational training centres are able to do-especially the practical works with all the equipment that will be required. Some years ago, we used to have places for example, at Hlekweni Vocational Training Centre, they used to teach students different practical subjects, for example handicraft or metalwork. At the end of their studies, they would be given a few of the materials that they can use on their own when they are doing their practicals at home. This is very important because we can teach them but after they have graduated, they would fail to get the equipment to start the jobs on their own. Mr. President
Sir, it is important that after teaching or training our youth, especially from the vocational training centres, we should give them the materials as well to use on their own.
It was highlighted again that there is this issue called corruption. Personally, I would like to say that if a song is being sang over and over again and at the end we will realise that it will lose its value. It will appear as if it is just a chorus that is being sung without a meaning. As a country we are so blessed to have our President who always speaks against corruption. The President has also highlighted that there is need to investigate on the issues to do with corruption and bring the culprits to account for their actions. It is important that all those who are involved in corrupt activities are called to account for their actions.
I also recognise that the report also touched on Africa as a continent which experiences drought. For example, this year the country did not have enough rainfall. In addition, even those countries that were supporting us during the drought season did not receive enough rainfalls. When we touch on the issue of supporting each other when it comes to drought relief programmes, I am happy to say that I heard Senator Musakwa highlighting that Arab countries are always saying that they have a lot of money and it would be important that we consider what they always - say that they have a lot of money and they want to assist Africa, especially during the drought season.
I would like to urge everyone that we should not appear as beggars but we take it as assistance to this country. If we are really in need of finances, is it not possible that we can borrow from other counties as a way of trying to mitigate the drought that we have in this country? We also realise that under ZIM ASSET there is the issue of food security and it is important that our Government considers what the Arab countries are saying. Yes, we have those who are against Zimbabwe but we have other countries that want to assist us in the African context and we should consider them.
It is also important that the laws that we make as a country are investor friendly to the countries that want to assist us with finances. With these few words Mr. President I would like to thank those who travelled to this important meeting and tabled a very good report which would then need to be responded to. Our Ministers should take into consideration-with high priority, especially on the issue that there are other countries that are willing to assist which might help us as a country. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 9th June, 2016.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA, the Senate adjourned at Six Minutes past Four
O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 9th June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the
Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that Question Time be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
DETERIORATION IN THE ROADS AND RAILWAY
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the alarming incidents of road carnage due to dilapidated infrastructure, obsolete vehicles and human error.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. MASUKU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution to this motion. We have had contributions on the road carnage because of the condition of our roads from Hon Senators. They have talked about some of the cars which we find on our roads, which according to the states of our roads and mechanical conditions of the cars, are not supposed to be on the roads. Most of the blame is on human error. Mr. President Sir, we know that this motion has been discussed before and emphasis has been placed on the condition of our roads and what could be done to improve the state of our roads so that we can curb the road carnage.
We have noticed that some of the accidents are caused by domestic animals due to carelessness of human error. We had fences which were put along the roads to prevent animals from straying into the roads. The fences were removed by certain people. Since these fences were removed, we now find that there are many animals which are straying into the roads causing accidents. People are dying because of these accidents. In some cases, we have donkeys being stubborn on the roads. Therefore, Mr. President, I recommend that we have empowered people in each district or centre to look after the portion of their road, that is the fence. They should be responsible for policing those areas. The known fact is that the fence is not stolen or taken by people from outside but by people from the neighbourhood. They know each other and if they are empowered and told to take care of their section of the road, they will be able to look after the fence. Nobody will be able to steal it.
I will now turn to the condition of cars on the roads. You can tell by the sound of a car that it is in a bad condition and can cause road carnage and accidents. What surprises me is that such a car in such a condition goes through a road block. What really boggles the mind is that if you own a car and you do not maintain and service it, it will have a shorter life. The car will also be a danger to your health and therefore we need to take care, love, maintain and repair our cars. I plead with the police that at any road block or at any inspection point, they should put emphasis that cars should be examined. I have also noticed that in some cases, the road blocks are conducted by both the police and the Vehicle Inspection Department (VID). I urge the VID to confiscate a car which is in a bad condition but on the road and keep it until the owner has taken it and sent it for repair and it has obtained a fitness certificate. Therefore, as car owners, we need to take care of our cars because a car in bad condition is a health hazard or life hazard to the people of
Zimbabwe. As people of Zimbabwe, we need to understand that.
I will now look at the recklessness of the drivers in these roads. Mr. President Sir, I do not know what bogs the minds, when a driver gets into the car, put on the ignition, steps on the pedal and the vehicle goes into life; I am surprised, it seems as if there is some excitement which gets into that driver. What really mesmerises me is that this excitement does not occur only on the youngsters whom we can say they are new to this phenomenon of driving but even the grey haired individuals are also careless. They have this unnecessary excitement and when they are driving they feel they are in cloud nine. Nobody is sharing that cloud with them and hence they cause these accidents because when one is driving, there is this recklessness and carelessness. Some of these people especially the omnibus, taxis and the kombi drivers, they are not aware, they seem not to care that they are carrying precious lives. As far as they are concerned, they seem to be carrying donkeys, horses, stones or even sand or bricks. They do not care about people’s lives but it is my plea and request that whenever a driver is performing his duty, he should be very careful and remember that he is carrying precious lives or human beings. Mr. President, I have realised that the excitement occurs to both the old and the youngsters.
In the recent past, we had a school child who was run over and killed by a kombi. Surprisingly, the driver of this kombi was above 40 years. This heartless man had the audacity to try and run out of the country instead of assisting and going to apologise. According to our African culture, when you have blundered, you have to go to the people whom you have wronged and apologise. It is so heartless that you apologise at the courts to the police or the parents of the child. These heartless people do not care about life. What really hurts is that these people who are involved in accidents try to run away. My feeling is that if these careless drivers are convicted, the penalty should be heavy. This young girl was a future leader and parent. Her parents had high expectations on their child but now that daughter is no more due to the heartlessness and carelessness of one driver. He had the audacity of killing somebody and got out of the country, which shows that he has no sense of feeling. It was just like running over an ant or sliding over a banana skin. My feeling is that somebody who has killed somebody in a car accident under such circumstances is very similar to a murderer.
We are saying, you should have that feeling in you that when you are getting into your car and driving off, you should be saying I am leaving my home being somebody who is alive and during my trip, I should not disturb any of the fellow drivers, pedestrians and I should also take care of myself so that I return to my home and family in one piece. Hence, my request is that people should have conscience and care about others. Mr. President, I certainly support this motion that people’s
lives are lost carelessly in road carnage. Thank you Mr. President.
I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 14th June, 2016.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon. Eng. Matangaidze. What is the condition regarding distribution of food, especially in areas that were affected by drought? We have been told that the elderly and the disabled who have been given food freely are now being asked to enroll in the food for work programme.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Senator Shiri for that question. We will give you the modus operandi regarding food distribution. If you remember, when we started food distribution, we had programme based on vulnerable groups that were in registers that we have been using. However, we later realised that due to the drought affecting the country, where people who are able to carry out their farming activities and feed themselves are now being affected by the El-Nino induced drought. As a result, the vulnerable groups and those who have been affected by drought should benefit from the food programme. We are saying, to those able bodied and the capable ones, they should get their food through the food for work programme but the vulnerable groups such as the elderly and orphans should continue receiving their food as usual.
The able bodied persons work 15 days a month for four hours per day.
They are then given a bag of maize and some cash to buy relish. I thank you.
HON. B. SIBANDA: Could the Minister confirm to the House whether there is enough food to cover the two programmes countrywide?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Hon. President. I
would like to thank Sen. B. Sibanda for the question. Yes, I do confirm that we are currently sitting on enough stocks to cover the food mitigation programmes that we have in place. As we stand right now, maize allocated for our Ministry is sitting on three months stock. I can confirm that there are continuous stocks coming into the country from the efforts Government has put in place to acquire grain for the country.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MARAVA: There was a programme which was
implemented in the food distribution and it catered for the elderly, 1 or 2 % of the beneficiaries. You have explained that the food is now given to the elderly. Now, we have some elderly people who were not fed in the previous programme. But, the elderly programme was missing on 20% of this vulnerable group. My question is, are you saying that these other elderly people should go and work for the food in this new programme caused by the El Nino induced drought and yet they are as old as the previous selected beneficiaries?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Hon. Sen. Thank you very much for the question. Let me recap on what we had said. There is an annual report which is called Zimvac. It is compiled this way. Officers go and look out for the people who do not have sufficient food supplies and check on their status. Communities which have leadership in the rural areas which are assessed and the leadership in that particular area will vet the people who are supposed to benefit from the food programme because they are aware of their situation. They select individuals or families who are supposed to get the food assistance and whosoever is selected will definitely benefit from the programme. The names nominated are then put on a register and they are re-examined annually to check whether there is any improvement on their food status. When that report was done, there were 1.5 million people who were supposed to benefit from the previous programme, which is equivalent to 3 000 households. Because of the El Nino induced drought, the number has increased and the President then declared a state of disaster. An emergency disaster programme was done in February to check the people who could be affected by the drought.
We are aware of the original programme but then we realised that there were other additional people who were suffering. We are saying, at times not all elderly people were benefiting because there were some who had a good background with families which were supporting them. Some of them were good farmers with full granaries but, in the current programme, we are saying that there are more people who should benefit from this programme.
The leadership in the community we talked about are now submitting names from the Rapid Assessment Programme. We have checked and we are finding that, in some instances, some families have nobody to support them. In some villages or homes, there are some youngsters or youths who are fit and thus can go and work in the Food for Work Programme. Maybe one or two children may go and join the Food for Work Programme so that their family may benefit through the same programme that benefits their communities. Food is coming to the people to avoid starvation and there is development in the communities through the work carried out. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social
Services.
Is it Government policy that village heads who only receive a meager allowance of no more than $25 per month should not receive food relief?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Hon. President. No
it is not Government policy because when we do the vulnerability assessment, it does not cover the meager allowances. If $25 a month is not enough to sustain a family and there is no other means of income that village head has, surely, that for all intents and purposes, can be described as a food insecure household and it will be able to be put under the food mitigation programme.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Mr. President
Sir. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural
Resettlement Hon. Chikwama. May you please explain to us the Government policy regarding people who are still engaging in land occupations in the farms and illegally occupying those places? Are we saying that the land occupations have been revived?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you very much for
the question. It is not Government policy that people should go and resettle themselves in farming areas. As far is the Ministry is concerned, we are dealing with such problems which are now resurfacing, that people just get into the farms illegally and we term them illegal settlers. What we need to know is that, as the leadership of the communities, please submit the names of the farms affected and those people who are involved and as a Ministry, we will look into the problem. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services. Have you now changed the policy of cancelling the leave provisions for teachers after the court ruling?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Mr. President. Thank you for the good question Sen. Chimhini. You will obviously appreciate that unless Government is in a position to contest a court ruling which is binding and we will wait to get direction from the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education on how they feel, but the position is that, once a court ruling has been done, it is binding. So, if the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education sees it fit to challenge that ruling, we will stand guided but, as it stands - obviously, that ruling should be binding.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Minister, you are the employer and not the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I am asking the employer whether the policy has changed?
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Hon. President. It is
actually very interesting that my colleague has just walked in as well. So, he will take over.
Yes, I do agree that my Ministry is the employer and as we draft frameworks for those employed, you will appreciate Sen. Chimhini that we also engage our counterparts in the respective operating Ministries. We share the same sentiments with the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. I remember responding to a similar question in this august Senate sometime last year where we said there is a good case for arguing that currently, the leave days at the disposal of teachers is rather excessive compared to the ordinary civil servant. I do not think we are in argument there.
What might be argued is the framework which was adopted in implementing that position that there should be some rationalisation on the leave days. I would throw it back to my colleague from the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education. I do not think much has happened in terms of the thinking itself, because the thinking is correct that people should relook at the leave days granted to teachers.
What was declared unconstitutional was the implementation of that which had been established. That is why I want to throw it back to the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education, and obviously, in liaison with our Ministry - that we have to sit down and map a way forward. Once a ruling has been put in place from a legal perspective, that ruling is binding. That is the point I was emphasising.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN.
CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): I think in all fairness and for the fullness and clarity on this matter, we have been joined by the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Professor Mavima. To cut the long story short, a question has been raised with your colleague from the Ministry of Labour, Public Service and Social Services that in view of the court ruling on the issue of leave for teachers, are you now going to comply and grant teachers leave as and when they apply? That is the question.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDCUATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): I would
have probably given a similar answer. Yes, the ruling has taken place and I think we are going to see an avalanche of applications for leave by teachers, but he said we need as the two Ministries to really consider that ruling, sit down and come up with a framework. The original decision not to grant leave was a function of a number of things, but mainly taken within the context of the current fiscal space that we have. If a teacher went on 3 months leave which is a whole term, Government had to appoint another teacher to replace them during that period. It meant that the teacher who is on leave is being paid and a new teacher who is replacing is also being paid. It was partly that consideration.
Also if you consider that teachers already have 3 months in which they are on semi vacation during school holidays and then they are given another opportunity after every 3 years to go on 4 months vacation. There is an imbalance with other civil servants. I think we need the guidance of our own legal minds to look at it again and see how we can rationalise it and put it within the context of that ruling, but also bringing fairness in terms of comparison with other civil servants and also considering the need to save on Government resources which are public resources. That would be my response Mr. President.
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Who
were the parties to the case?
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: The employer was responsible. *HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: In the past, temporary teachers were engaged by Government, may you tell us what was happening before Independence and what is happening in other countries? In the past, we used to be told that the holiday was only for the students but the teacher is employed 24 hours a day and may be called to polling stations or train sports as the Government may see it fit.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: We have been given the history of what
was happening in the past and it is true that a teacher will be given his vacation leave so that he can take his 90 days at a time that suits him. As to what obtains in other countries, I need to research and see what they do.
Let me now turn to the problem affecting temporary teachers. There are two scenarios. The first one is; do we really want to engage temporary teachers? At the moment we are saying if we were complying with regulations, we would not be employing them because at the moment, Zimbabwe has a lot of trained teachers who are now jobless or working in other areas instead of their area of specialty. These are the people that we were using so that if a permanent teacher goes on leave or maternity leave, we take them on a temporary basis. In the past we used to take anybody who was not qualified because we did not have enough qualified people.
But because we had not reached that stage, before the employer then said the teachers’ conditions should change, we used to give teachers 90 days to go on leave and this would cover the whole term.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Before I ask my question, I just want to make a statement first. The idea of taking leave is an individual decision based on their personal circumstances. School holidays do not determine the personal circumstances of the teacher. They do not determine his ability to save money to go wherever he wants to go on holiday. School holidays are pre determined by Government, irrespective of the teachers’ circumstance. So, if a teacher wants to go to Canada..
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: You
can proceed with the question.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: The question is, why does an independent Zimbabwe need to vary a situation which was happening throughout since the days of colonialism? We cannot, as a Zimbabwean society, accept that Government needs to tell me when I should go on leave and when I cannot simply because I am a teacher. Hon. Minister, do you not agree with me that the Government overstepped its mark by deciding on a person’s life and the time when they can take leave or not take leave?
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Which
Minister are you directing this question to?
HON. SEN. MAKONE: I am directing it to the Minister of
Primary and Secondary Education.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank you
Hon. President. I think there are some issues which the courts have talked about which are really not necessary for me to go over on this issue. The courts indicated that we needed to reconsider and I am not going to go back into those arguments, but there is a statement which the Hon. Senator has made which almost says that as an independent country, we should not look at issues that were happening previously.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: You are saying the opposite.
HON. PROF. MAVIMA: Please let me respond. If we are giving teachers that opportunity to go on leave in addition to some of the free time that they have on holidays, it does not necessarily mean that we were doing things efficiently and effectively as a nation. It does not mean that. Also, people who are in employment, even in the private sector, sometimes have their leave applications turned down depending on the circumstances at a company or at a particular point in time. So, it is not necessarily true that employees always go on leave as and when they want to go on leave.
What we are saying as Government, the employer and ourselves is that we really need to look at this issue and ask, are we being efficient and effective as a country. We need to consider whether we are using resources, both human as well as financial resources in an efficient way, but doing it within the confines of the law. So, that matter really is not only about the rights of the employee, but is also about other issues including the efficiency in the use of national resources which are really the blood and sweat of the Zimbabwean people. Thank you Hon.
President.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Mr. President, what I was saying is in fact, when you look at the court’s ruling, it is not about whether it is for the employer to save money or to do it efficiently, it is about the rights of the employee who decides when he/she want to go on leave.
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think it has
been heard, it is clear.
HON. SEN. MAKONE: Yes, because he went on to compare
with the private sector. I am a product of the public sector. You decide when you want to go on leave and you tell your employer in time that you are going to be going on leave because the school holidays are not determined by the teacher, they are determined by Government. They are not the teacher’s holiday; they are the student’s holiday. Thank you Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Hon. President. Senator Makone really pushes her point, does she not? I concur with what the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education has put through. I just need to add on that. What we have here, is a clear case of a department within Government that is on seasonal business. Hear me as I allude to that.
It is just like the tobacco industry. It is seasonal in nature. There is a time when the tobacco auction floors are not open. It is just like the sugar industry in Chiredzi and Triangle. It is seasonal. By its very nature there will be a season when they will not be teaching. There is a season in April where teaching is not happening, there is a season in August where teaching is not happening and there is a season in December when teaching is not happening. Now, to argue that by the very nature of the seasonality of the product we are dealing with therefore, leave entitlement should not be governed around that, I think we would have lost the plot, because if you then go on to these industries I am talking about, there is no way when it is in season that leave can be given. That is point number one.
Hon. President, the second point is, although leave is an entitlement, leave is granted at the sole discretion of the employer. That is why you now find that the law allows you to accumulate your leave days to give the employer the opportunity to slot in the leave period. So, those issues are quite clear. The argument that we brought in from the first point, which I think this august Senate will agree with is, whatever the circumstances, for somebody to take three months leave in a year and after seven years to take another three months, making that year six month leave, is fundamentally not correct. I think we agree – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order,
order. Firstly, democracy, like we did with you, we allowed you to say what you wanted to say, let us allow him also to respond. It is part of democracy. As they say democracy is the ability to give the other person a chance to say what they want whether or not you agree with them and we are doing exactly that. So, give him the chance to say what he wants. That is democracy.
HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Mr. President. If we
look at the background which qualifies teachers for the leave days after the seventh year, that was primarily and initially to accommodate expatriate teachers who had come into the country, who had to be given a block release to go back to their native lands.
So, when we are looking at this, let us not divorce it from the history that brought it up. Just because we inherited a system does not make it right. We have to be progressive. We have to relook at this. We have to revisit and say, is there any merit in continuing with that system. And yes, Senator Makone, you will be given the platform to argue and challenge that. Indeed there is merit, but I am saying the two Ministries, when we sat down, we really felt, even comparing apples for apples, comparing the teachers to the other civil servants, the leave allocated to teachers was just not fair. Your argument which you are bringing up is, at least let the teachers have an opportunity to pick the months they want to go on leave and that is a separate argument. Our argument as we stand right now is the leave allocated to teachers is just too excessive and not sustainable in the current fiscus space.
So yes, let us agree from the outset that this leave is too much but how much flexibility do we now offer to the implementation of the proposed shorter leave. For example, allowing teachers to take leave during examination months like November. I think these are the fundamentals Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. D. T. KHUMALO: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I have two children in two different schools, one is a boy and the other a girl. Both schools were asked to give their school buses to the recently held Million Man Match and now the buses are broken. Who is going to repair those buses because the parents did not authorize their use during the match?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): As a
matter of policy the Ministry grants the School Development Authorities (SDAs) or School Development Committees (SDCs) to make decisions about the use of buses.
In many schools buses are being used for purposes, apart from transporting students when they go on trips or teachers for various purposes they are also allowed to rent out the buses sometimes to churches and different organisations. Not knowing the specific circumstances under which these buses were used and whether they were paid for. I cannot really say who is supposed to pay for the repair of those buses but if they are rented, the assumption is that whatever is charged is enough to maintain the buses. So without the specific situation that you are referring to, I cannot tell you but the decision to rent out is the responsibility of the SDAs and SDCs. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Prof. Mavima. We had lots of arguments, discussions and misunderstandings regarding the National Pledge and debates were conducted in churches and other fora regarding this issue. The Ministry observed the sensitivity of the National Pledge but went ahead and launched it. What is your observation to date?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Hon.
President, the National Pledge may be viewed in two perspectives. The first one being that the National Pledge is an ongoing programme and I am not very sure as to where the problem emanated from especially regarding the churches and other civic organisations. May they kindly identify the problem on the pledge?
The National Pledge originated from the country’s Constitution which is the supreme law of the country. The crafting of the Constitution was drafted and supported by political parties and civic organisations. The Ministry extracted the wording of the National Pledge from the Constitution thus inculcating the values of patriotism amongst learners and students of Zimbabwe that I love my country, I salute my flag and will work hard and honestly.
Generally speaking, this is what the National Pledge is saying and as far as Government and the Ministry is concerned, we do not see where the problem is. I know the case is sub judice and before the courts but despite the case being sub judice, the courts have said the
National Pledge should continue. It will continue in all our schools. +HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: My question is directed to the
Minister of Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services, Hon. Mlambo. Deputy Minister what is Government policy regarding problems which may be under police investigation or before the courts? As ordinary citizens, can we use the information from our cell phones as evidence in court? We have had problems in the past accepting evidence from the courts.
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. CHIEF. CHARUMBIRA): The Hon. Chief is asking you to
make a public statement to the people of this country that if one is arrested by the police, one can use evidence from messages or phone calls in court.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY, POSTAL AND COURIER SERVICES, (HON.
MLAMBO): Thank you very much Mr. President. Firstly, my Ministry is Ministry of ICT which means Information Communication Technology, Postal and Courier Services. There is a distinction with the Ministry of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services.
Secondly, it appears the question relates more to the police rather than the Ministry of Media, Information and Broadcasting Services or the Ministry of Information Communication Technology, Postal and
Courier Services. Be that as it may, to assist the Hon. Sen. allow me, Mr. President to furnish the august House with information regarding the use of technology in court during defence.
Yes, I think on the cell phones I have stated on many occasions that it is a very dangerous tool. We love it but with technology comes danger. Anything that emits electro-magnetic waves can precisely locate, if there is a lot of information that is kept in servers the voice and the text messages which you love very much to pass around. Tomorrow we are finalising the revised National Policy on ICT and in there, we state very clearly that we are trying to protect the unaware civilian about the use of these nice gadgets. Protection of personal information against abuse because of the danger it has, including giving impeccable
evidence in court about a case. Firstly, it can nail a criminal, but it can also assist in many ways because it can precisely assist the judge regarding the person who will be under trial. The information on a cell phone as I will be sending is meeting electro-magnetic waves and anybody who has the appropriate gadget can precisely locate where I will be. If I am moving, it can trace wherever I will be going.
I might inform this august House that during Ebola outbreak in West Africa, they used a cell phone to track a person who would have been in West Africa so that they quarantine him or her. This was done because people were not willing to give information to the effect that they would have visited West Africa and were exposed to Ebola. They used technology to track those people and when they landed in other countries, they were kindly told that they had been in West Africa through the use of technology. However, the information on cell phones can be used in court.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you Mr. President. My question
is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement.
Hon. Minister, what is the Government policy on farming partnership ventures? What is the minimum expected profit sharing percentage on the output of these partnership ventures?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Mr. President.
I thank you Hon. Senator Mumvuri for this very important question. I would like to let you know that partnership ventures are a product of Government policy. The Government of Zimbabwe allows farmers to engage in partnership ventures instead of renting out land to other people. The percentage profit is determined by both partners in terms of what they agree within the partnership venture. The Government cannot determine what the profit is supposed to be.
We want people to approach the Ministry whenever they intend to engage in contract farming or joint ventures so that we guide them. Most of our farmers are unable to realise profits due to lack of knowledge. Some people who propose to have partnership with our famers propose amounts such as US$2000 or US$500 per month whilst they get more profit from the land. Therefore, we want to guide our farmers on how they should reach an agreement in partnership ventures.
I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. My
question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services, Hon. Matangaidze. What is Government policy regarding the street people who beg for money along the streets? What is the Ministry doing about their welfare or rehabilitation or is it going to die a natural death?
* THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Hon. President. I would like to thank you Hon. Machingaifa for this question. Our Ministry is responsible for administering the law on vulnerable children such as these street kids.
We have Government children’s homes and other homes run by voluntary organisations. We encourage them to remove children from the streets and take them into those homes. However, the problem is that, it is easier and cheaper for the street children to beg in the streets than to be confined to a home. These children find a lot of benefits in staying in the streets as they beg for money, which they are given.
Commuters give them some left-over food through the windows.
It is our responsibility as drivers and commuters not to feed these people as this encourages them to stay in the streets. We now have a situation where a commuter omnibus driver is fined for picking up passengers from undesignated places. The commuters are also fined for boarding or alighting on undesignated places. Hence, we are saying, we need the same approach. We should deny these children the kind of assistance we are currently giving them and instead, pool our resources and give out to children’s homes so that they are assisted.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to ask the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services what Government policy is regarding employment transfers, particularly of married women from one centre to another. What factors do you take into account?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Hon. President. Thank you Hon. Senator. Our Ministry is very sensitive to the issue of keeping married couples together. We always take that as first priority to ensure that whenever possible, married couples should always be close to each other. However, you will realise that there are circumstances such as the availability of vacancies, leading to non-consideration of the issue of marriage. However, as policy, priority will always be ensuring that the family unity is maintained. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I thank you Mr. President. My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. What is the policy regarding a farmer whose farm is designated and he or she continues to live there and then approach the courts sighting human rights violation and saying ‘I have nowhere to go?’ I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Mr. President.
I thank you Hon. Senator for the question. The Government policy on a farmer who does not want to vacate a farm that has been designated is that; whenever one is given an offer letter, the new occupant is allowed to approach the courts to contest if the previous occupant is failing to vacate. The farm belongs to the state and the person holding the offer letter is supposed to take action against the one resisting to vacate the farm. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. My
question goes to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Earlier on, I referred to International Best Practices in relation to teachers. I am taking that question further with regards to public servants because I also know for sure that there is a grade of civil servants and a grade of teachers called university lecturers who get one year full leave after six years. Our primary and secondary teachers only get three or four months after seven years. What is his comment?
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Which
Minister are you directing your question to?
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Deputy Minister Matangaidze.
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Obviously
as a lecturer at the university.
HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: As the employer and the one
who is in charge of working conditions for public servants.
THE HON. ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The
employer is being supported by the user – [Laughter.] –
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE): Thank
you Hon. President. The reason why I have asked my colleague to handle that one is rather specific because what the Hon. Senator is talking about now is something which we call sabbatical leave. When you go on sabbatical leave for one year, it is actually on a study or block release. They will actually be working and furthering their education in a particular line which will then enhance their portfolio when they get back. If you need additional information on sabbatical leave, I will ask my colleague here to add on to that. I thank you Hon. President.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND
SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. PROF. MAVIMA): Thank
you. Just to add on, sabbatical leave is specifically given to lecturers, especially at universities to go and work in other universities; not to just take it as they wish or to do research whilst they are still at their own university so that they enhance their understanding of the particular field that they are working on. So, it is different from a situation where someone is let go and they can do whatever they want. When you go on sabbatical or conduct leave, which is shorter, you need to come back and provide a report of what you were doing. In some cases, you are even required to show the publications that you have achieved whilst you are on sabbatical leave. So it is different with teachers.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: Thank you Mr.
President. My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Agriculture, (Livestock), Hon. Zhanda. May you please give us an update on the progress of irrigation projects so that we do not continue importing maize from other countries? We have water bodies in other areas. What are you doing to safeguard them? We also have the idea of assisting the chiefs through the ‘Zunde raMambo’ whereby people get food from the chief. What are you doing to spearhead this programme?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(LIVESTOCK) (HON. ZHANDA): Thank you Hon. Sen. Chief
Musarurwa for this question. Talking about irrigation, the Government has set up a committee, which is led by Hon. Vice President Mnangagwa and is responsible for sourcing food. As a result, the committee is moving around the country looking at resuscitating irrigation projects and developing them so that we may grow enough food for Zimbabwe, so that we will not import but get enough food for the country.
Let us be aware of the fact that irrigation is not the only way that can feed Zimbabwe throughout the year but it is a multi-faceted programme which needs a multi-faceted approach. When we look at maize; it is our staple food. As the people of Zimbabwe, what is it that we can do. On the 5th July, 2016, all the stakeholders will come together and look for ways of developing or growing enough maize to sustain the livelihoods of Zimbabwe. We will be looking at people who will be responsible for financing farming, marketing and the good harvests. This will include looking into the irrigation aspects of maize in Zimbabwe. This is because we are in a situation whereby Zimbabwe is continuously begging for maize from neighbouring countries. As a Government, we need to set up policy which will make Zimbabwe be self-sustaining in maize production.
Let me go on to the “Zunde raMambo.” I know that you are
interested in this scheme because you are part of the chiefs programme and need to have this programme fully supported. Let me be sincere. I am not very sure of the progress that has been made towards this line. However, may I also take this opportunity to invite chiefs to come to this gathering on 5th July, 2016 so that you can give ideas on how chiefs can be part of the programme to feed Zimbabwe. Let me inform you that the meeting will be held at the Harare Agricultural Show. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE ACTING
PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order Number 62.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
NUMBER OF HECTARES THAT ARE OCCUPIED BY A1, A2
FARMERS
- HON. SEN. CARTER asked the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to provide figures of the number of hectares that are occupied by A1, A2 farmers and title deeds holders of the land previously owned by commercial farmers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): I want to thank Hon.
Senator Carter for the question. The Ministry is currently analysing all the data generated by the Land Reform Programme to ensure that we have a robust land information management system that captures every price and land in the country. As of now, the following statistics are relevant to the question at hand. Hectrage under A1: 5 979 million;
Hectrage under A2: 3 498 million.
There are no title deed holders on land previously owned by commercial farmers as this land is allocated on the basis of offer letters which graduate into 99 year leases and permits.
COMPLETION OF LAND REFORM PROCESS
- HON. SEN. CARTER asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to confirm whether the land reform process has been completed so that farmers can confidently concentrate on agricultural production .
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Thank you Mr. President
and thank you Hon. Sen. Carter for the question.
To us land reform is a process and not an event. It is a process comprising several steps that are accomplished as implementation progresses. In our case, these include land acquisition, planning activities to subdivide farms, settler selection and emplacement, compensation, provision of security of tenure and regular farm inspections. Whilst the Government has completed some of these steps particularly with regards to land acquisition and settler emplacement, we continue to focus on other important stages of the process now focusing on provision of security tenure in order to spur agricultural production.
Considering that our Land Reform Programme is extensive, it is necessary to review what we have done as we move forward and improve on this. For example, of late Government has resolved to implement the maximum farm size regulations where this had not been done. We continue to allocate land where plots have been taken up or where farms are downsized to release land for allocation.
I think what we mean is that, land reform as a process, there are some other issues which we are dealing with and it is not a thing that we can say is complete but, there is some downsizing. There are some occupiers who can even surrender the land to the Government. So, it is a process which is ongoing for a long time as generations or whatever.
Sorry Mr. President, on the other issue of Mr. Carter’s question, I did not inform him that in Zimbabwe, farms for commercial production, we were holding 15 million hectares but as we go, you will find that the statistic that I gave you is only 9.4 million hectares. So in other farms, indigenous people are there. Also there is what we call Bilateral Investment Promotion Agreements (BIPA) farms which are still on the farms. There are also some white farmers who are still occupying some of the land and if we add it to that with some pieces of land, we are going to come up with 15 million hectares.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
EXPLANATION ON HOW THE 3 TIER SYSTEM WORKS
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to give further explanation on how the 3-tier system works, and how the rental payments are made as many people share the grazing land.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): May I start by thanking
Hon. Sen. Mohadi for asking this question. The three tier land use model is applicable to drier parts of the country where ranching is the only suitable form of land use in the absence of irrigation development.
The objective is to provide land for commercial grazing and thus increase the communal herd and also to reorganize communal areas in line with the three tier structure of the model.
The land is divided into 3 tiers as follows;
1st Tier Comprising a cluster of villages, some arable land and social service;
2nd Tier Also known as the near grazing area where which benefiting household keeps 5 livestock units for day use ;
3rd Tier This is the grazing area for commercial purposes.
The model is primarily targeted at overcrowded communal areas adjacent to acquired farms in drier natural regions in which there is insufficient grazing land to sustain a commercial herd. Twenty percent of the allocations are set-aside for war veterans. In this model, rentals are paid as if the farm was an A1 farm, that is $10 per annum and the administration of this model is done by the Ministry of Lands and Rural
Resettlement.
POLICY IN PLACE REGARDING FARMERS WHO HAVE
- HON. SEN. MOHADI asked the Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement to state the policy in place regarding farmers who have title deeds but are not utilizing their land.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): May I start by thanking
Hon. Sen. Mohadi for asking this question. Land under title deeds is private property and the State does not have jurisdiction over the same.
Thank you.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU seconded by HON.
SEN. MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes to Four o’clock
p.m. until Tuesday, 14th June, 2016.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 14th June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the Senate that I have received a Special Economic Zones Bill (H. B.
15A, 2015) from the National Assembly.
APPOINTMENT TO THEMATIC COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also have to
inform the Senate that Hon. Tabeth Murwira has been appointed to serve in the Thematic Committee on HIV/AIDS and the Indigenisation and
Economic Empowerment.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MURWIRA: Madam President, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to present my maiden speech to the Senate. I want to thank the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and
Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces on his opening of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament of Zimbabwe. He talked about the support of communal resettlement and A1 farms with crops and livestock inputs where seeds and fertilizers were channelled to those sectors.
Madam President, in Seke and Chikomba, there is need to site and establish new irrigation schemes and also the rehabilitation of schemes that are defunct. Irrigation is the way forward if we are to move from beggars to exporters of agricultural produce. Empowerment of the youths through support of small irrigation schemes for horticulture and crop production will create employment, reduce crime rate and move away from dependency syndrome.
There are gold deposits in Seke and Chikomba Constituency where small miners need support in terms of knowledge on operational procedures. In the health sector, there are few clinics in the resettlement areas and people move for up to 15 km for health services. There are drug and staff shortages and Government needs to support the cause of building more health centres. Madam President, the education sector is another area of concern where satellite schools and established ones need more classroom blocks and teachers’ quarters.
Water and sanitation is necessary on health and education institutions. Manyame RDC drills boreholes for every ward yearly but this is not enough. Government programmes should look into this.
Most people in the constituency are farmers and they work hard. Markets for the produce are a worry. Drying vegetables and tomatoes for later use and distant markets is a need here. Challenges of illegal settlers in both communal and resettlement areas are a concern and the
Government should support the policy and procedures for regulations.
Madam President, the country needs to be united at all levels as the President said for development to be realised. You can add facts and figures to support your debate for example, number of schools, clinics that need rehabilitation and water bodies which can be used for irrigation purposes. I thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
MOTION
LEVELS OF CORRUPTION IN THE COUNTRY
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I move the motion standing in my name:
That this House:
Noting that corruption is now endemic in the land;
Alarmed at the rate at which incidents of corruption are occurring unabated;
Concerned at the implications that this trend has on the economic recovery; the international status of the country and its international credit ratings;
NOW, THEREFORE, this House calls upon:
- Legislators to take an unequivocal stance against this scourge;
- Legislators to closely monitor the Executive performance in dealing with reported cases for corruption; and
- Citizens to report to law enforcement agents, and the Anti –
Corruption Commission any suspected cases of corruption.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: I second.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Madam President, I thank you for this opportunity. From the on-set, I would like to say I am moving this motion with a heavy heart in this august House as I raise a subject that shames me as a citizen of this country. I commence my motion by quoting from a rare source, Mr. Zinyemba of ZANU PF National
Consultative Assembly who said yesterday, “We read about corruption almost on a daily basis but we do not see any action being taken”. This was in The Herald yesterday. Mr. Zinyemba, in my opinion, is 100%
right.
As I carried out research on this subject and looked back at the history of this country, I said to myself, ‘cry the beloved country’, lafa elihle lafa sikhangele and ‘things fall apart’. In that research, I also came face to face with the reality of this scourge.
I would like to categorically state that, I have deliberately used the subject we as against they in the hope that we will galvanise and assist ourselves build the national consensus we so desperately desire in order to minimize or eradicate the scourge of corruption. I would like to refer to sentiments that I have heard in the debate on the motion on the Arab
Parliamentarians and Business Persons Conference. I gleaned that views were suggesting that the subject of corruption has been over debated or over dramatised. I respect all people’s views on any subject. I also believe that you can only abandon a conviction when positive results are produced, not when the evil is on the right.
Corruption, Mr. President, is a cancer and must be subjected to the severest combination of chemo and radioactive therapy. During a planting season, if your seeds do not germinate, you plant and plant again until you achieve germination. The word of God has probably been around us for over a million years and continues to be preached because there are still adulterers and transgressors out there – we cannot stop the process. Sanctions have been topical for dozens of years and I have little call for the subject to be black listed especially from the other side, although some Ministers have conceded that it is now a tired song.
What makes corruption so deserving of mercy; I would like to look at this nation called Zimbabwe. I distinguish Zimbabwe as a land empowered with unparralled range of minerals, soils and a plethora of flora and fauna, one of the Seven Wonders of the World, an educated
and innovative population; a population endowed with loads of energy, will-power that so prosecuted and produced the liberation struggle. Therefore, our capacity to deal with challenges such as corruption is unlimited at least in theory. However, what is lacking is the political will. Resultantly, we languish in the one sixth third positions in the corruption index of the world out of the 174 nations. We are also in the last position in the SADC region, as the most difficult destinations for doing business, largely due to corruption.
We languish there together as Zimbabweans, irrespective of religion, political affiliation, we languish there. I state it once again as Zimbabweans, the innocent and the guilty, what a dichotomy in this nation. The juxtaposition position of the capacity of the nation and the performance of the nation in the corruption area, do not relate. Prior to this motion, the subject of corruption has come up in this House, all be it as an appendage to other topics or discussions.
Today, I would like us to come face to face with the elephant in the sitting room. Corruption is defined as the aggregate abuse of entrusted power for private or personal gain. It can manifest itself as petty or grand in scale. It includes the use of political and managerial power to manipulate policies and rules of procedure and people in the allocation of resources. At higher levels it manifests itself in the distortion of policies and the functionality of institutions. It invariably results in the creation of a class of the corrupt which deprives the majority of their right, self belief and creates a dangerous dependency syndrome on this manipulative political cliprocrassy.
The growth and development of corruption in Zimbabwe; let me state that corruption grew and developed as we watch as accomplices or un-interested by-standers and here I am referring to all of us as citizens. This is an indictment on this generation and us at various leadership levels. I remember, in the early days of independence when officials collected allowances to travel to wherever and did not bother to account for these monies. The estimates committees of Parliament questioned such action but there were no takers. This was the genesis of corruption in my opinion.
I also remember myself having a discussion with a number of Parliamentarians soon after independence and saying to them if we do not eat nhaka with care iyapela, inopera nhaka, kayidliwe njengo muti we..,I stopped there and I was dismissed for a prophet of doom who did not understand how money should be eaten. Often we do not listen as Zimbabweans. The same people can still look at me today and say what corruption are you talking about?
The compulsion to bring up the subject of corruption; the pilferage we saw in the early 80’s is now monumental as exemplified by the numerous allegations and Acts of corruption reported daily in the various press. Here, Mr. President, I look at dozens of cases, particularly over the past two to three months and I have selected just a few for reference point. These include dating back to 1999, the VIP housing scandal which was a monumental episode. An instance where Government loses millions of dollars through recruitment racket perpetrated by seven civil servants as reported in the News Day of the
12th May, 2016, I also selected a caption referring to the President which says that corruption levels rile the President. I also refer, Mr. President, to a situation where workers are said to be even stealing from the President. This is absolutely unbelievable. I think I would shudder and shake before I stole from the President. This list includes a ZINARA worker implicated in an US$8 million deal involving a company associated with them. It also includes NetOne – prejudiced of up to US$78 million in an overpriced Huawei deal.
Once again, this is catastrophic. I understand there has been renegotiation on the figure and maybe the loss stands at around US$34 million. I am sure that if you ask an average Zimbabwean to quantify what a million dollars looks like, I am sure they will have difficulty.
How about US$34 million?
We are all aware of the NSSA manager who was reported, rightly or falsely, of having externalised over US$200 million. We are also aware of over 200 cases of externalisation reported by the Panama
Papers involving Zimbabweans, both from the public and private sector.
If you calculated that portion of over 200 people involved in high level corruption then, Mr. President, we have a shock in our lives.
I also refer to Chiadzwa. I cannot imagine US$15 billion being lost by this nation. If we take it lightly, this is about three to four years of our annual budget, gone. Yesterday, I read a report that some of it is traceable as being in London. Mr. President, this list I have given is not exhaustive, but is an indicator of the state in which we are, as a nation, largely as a result of corruption.
I ask the question, are we not ashamed of ourselves? All of us, including me, are we not ashamed to be a part of this nation? Is there any moral fabric left in this nation? I do not have an answer. However,
Mr. President, I make certain proposals. I often think that we, as
Zimbabweans, equivocate when it comes to the question of corruption. We equivocate at all levels. I have not seen what I would call straight talk and straight action on the subject of corruption. The reasons for this equivocation are almost obvious to me and I reduce it to enlightened self interest. Most of us, if not all of us, have a stake in corruption and therefore cannot come out and condemn corruption because we may be beneficiaries of this disease.
I now look at what we can do. What can the legislature do? I start off and challenge all in this Hon. Senate to make a historic decision and stand up and be counted together as a Senate that took an unequivocal stance against corruption and redirect the trajectory of the history of this nation with regard to corruption. I am asking that we, as a Senate, the Upper House, push the entire legislature, the Lower House and the Upper House, to cause the establishment of a corruption occurrence office within Parliament, where the record of the instances of corruption will be kept.
Not a large office, but an affordable office where we maintain a record of which of these cases are real and which are fictitious because some are allegations. Also, where we can maintain a record of each case resolved by the Anti Corruption Commission and those cases that were not resolved and the reasons for the none conclusion of the cases. I also request that this Parliament considers using that information to provide Parliamentarians with corruption related information to be used to censure the Executive for non performance where litigation is not pursued in situations where corruption is proven.
Mr. President, it is my opinion that what will give us results is action, not talk and talk. Besides this record bringing available information, it also provides a measurement instrument; how many cases in this year have been reported and how many were resolved. That also defines the direction. Are we controlling our incidence or is it getting out of hand?
Mr. President, I think as Hon. Members, we should make a clear choice and decide whether we decide to be honourable or dishonourable in the eyes of the electorate by denouncing corruption through action without reservation. Just recently Government introduced the National Code of Corporate Governance which was first crafted in 2014. I welcome the development, but I have a concern. If it takes us two years to concretise a priority area, it says that we are not serious. Further, I think we as the legislature, have effected dereliction of duty, in terms of holding the Executive accountable for example, to expedite such an important piece of legislation or guidelines to deal with cases of corruption. Mr. President, I also think that the Executive must take it hands off the Anti Corruption Commission and let the commission execute its constitutional mandate without interference.
What I have done is attempt to create a framework that I propose Parliament should establish and use to control Executive performance in the elimination of corruption. We are all aware that the judicial fraternity has expressed concern about Presidential pardons for high profile corruption convictions. What have we done as legislators? My answer is nothing that I have seen. Sometimes we find ourselves in defense of corruption. Is that not dereliction of duty as legislators?
Let us also look at the role that citizens can play. I believe that without citizen buy in, we can kiss any effort in trying to eradicate corruption good-bye. Mr. President, we must rope in the citizens of this county as our foot soldiers in our war against this disease, and I suggest the following ways to deal with the citizen element. Let us engage in massive unparalleled corruption elimination education for all. I also suggest that we plaster all entry points into provinces, into private and public buildings, escalators with the message that declares corruption as our number one enemy. If you go to South Africa, I remember particularly if you enter Kwazulu Natal, you are greeted by this big sign ‘Zero tolerance of corruption in this province’.
When I first saw it, it was a great challenge. It was a source of motivation about what we could do for ourselves as a nation. Mr. President, I believe that this will be an antidote that our nation requires to address this calamity. I also believe that we should reward those citizens that give us critical information such as whistleblowers and keep their identities extremely confidential so that we generate confidence in the populace and that they can cooperate to their very best with
Government institutions in eliminating corruption.
Finally, I believe we should declare and go on a war path on this evil and the results will soon be evident.
In conclusion, I would like to quote a distinguished scholar called
Prof Mele. He has done a lot of work on the issue of corruption. He says;
“This is a fight we cannot afford to lose. If leaders do not have the capacity to deal with it, they should step down and give others a chance”. I thank you – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me
this opportunity to second a very important motion raised by Hon. Senator B. Sibanda. I want to thank you very much honourable for bringing this particular motion to the House to be debate.
Mr. President, corruption has been bemoaned for quite some time in various segments, sectors and even in this House. Repeatedly, this topic returned time and time again for discussion. The way we look at corruption is more or less a culture that has been seen destroying, such as has been mentioned by the Hon. Sibanda in his motion. Destroying the private sector and the parastatals in this country namely, railways which is now finished. The previous speaker raised the same issue in his motion. It has also destroyed ZIMASCO, Air Zimbabwe and ZISCO
Steel.
Generally, it is the quality of people of the people we field. At the recruitment point, it appears not to be based on the professional qualifications. However, it is who you know to get a job in a particular profession but that who you know sometimes calls for qualities that are desirable so as to maintain efficiency of administration. I have also seen that in Africa, countries like Nigeria, they used to say there is a missing page in your passport and if you do not produce something, your page would go missing and you would be left by your plane. If you produced something, they would just say your page is already there my brother and things are okay.
To me, that becomes a culture that we can speak about again and again. Perhaps, the other element that is far short is that employment opportunities become too few in other countries to the effect that in our numbers, we run for too few jobs, hence being tempted to engage in to other dubious means. I do not know whether it is only an African who is so selfish, but even if there is certain medicines that people must know about, sekuru vanofa nemuti wemudumbu vasingaudze munhu. To me that is a culture of selfishness. You cannot tell anybody about the medicine and say it is my medicine.
Similarly, it is short of a liberal mind that spills to a greater extent inculcated into the culture where people want the people of their own to engage in without involving other people because zvinhu ndezvangu ini and I must do it alone. It is a mindset that we must change and become transparent and accountable. The transparency that we are calling for has been spotted here coming from the systems that are in place. We have put very important machinery on the ground in the form of the Commissions put according to our Constitutions, but Commissions must be independent, in relation to Section 235 of the Constitution.
If I may be allowed to read what I think can assist this House on
Independent Commissions. It says, “(1) Independent Commissions - (a) are independent and are not subject to the direction or control of anyone; (b) must act in accordance with this Constitution; and (c) must exercise their functions without fear, favour or prejudice”. If we can follow the spirit of the Constitution, those people will not be bound by even the Minister or anything because Commissions are entitled to report direct to Parliament. When we institute some certain measures Mr. President, we limit the independence of those institutions. Hence, they must be working in the interest of the department for which they are which really will limit the operations and discharge of duties by those subsequent commissions.
These are areas that we must look at very closely and be able to make amends to them. We know there are a lot of things going on but the best we can do because we cannot eradicate corruption totally, but let us start from now to give powers to these Commissions so that they can be meaningful and be able to exercise their duties. We have everything to ourselves, they have already being set and are in motion but they are limited in terms of their operations, sometimes in terms of finances or in terms of other things. Be that as it may, we are bound to have a start and move to change our mindset though of course, it is culture that has been inculcated in all our actions and anywhere else, but we must, as was emphasised by the former speaker. In accordance with Section 119 of
the Constitution subsections (1) and (2), gives authority to this House to be able to see that these are binding and within the constitutional dictates in all duties that we do.
I want to thank the mover for this motion. I cannot repeat a number of things. He has mentioned almost everything. I just want to leave this opportunity for others to also share their ideas regarding the motion before us. I thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
MOTION
DETERIORATION IN THE ROADS AND RAILWAY
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alarming incidents of road carnage due to dilapidated infrastructure, obsolete vehicles and human error.
Question again proposed.
*SENATOR GOTO: Thank you Mr. President. I want to support the motion that was raised by Senator Musaka seconded by Senator Chipanga, concerning incidences of road carnage in our country. It is something that deeply concerns me and you will agree with me that we are all cognisant of what is happening. I think this motion was also raised in the Seventh Parliament and now it is being discussed again. Most people are dying because of the narrow roads. This shows that it is an important motion. I was touched to hear that the road from Mushandirapamwe to the growth point is terrible in terms of infrastructure; it has claimed a lot of lives. Some of the statistics are not in the press but as someone who comes from that area, we realize it is claiming a lot of lives.
As people were bringing in their tobacco, most commuter omnibuses travelled the same road with trucks carrying tobacco and there was a head-on collision which claimed a number of lives. That is why you hear of 15 people who have recently perished. So, you see so many accidents along that road. What I am saying is that the commuter omnibuses have caused so many accidents. When looking at it, you find that buses were better because the accidents were not as bad as they are today. I think the Government did a good initiative to ensure that we have access to transport. It should go further to look at the documents of drivers as well as the fitness and registration of the commuter omnibuses. We request the ZRP to assist us so that we travel safely. You find that the drivers are so reckless; they go off the road into the forest and hit a tree killing so many people.
I want to thank Senator Musaka for this motion. Some families die in road accidents. Along the Wedza road, we travel at 40km per hour for us to travel safely. My plea is that the Government should do something about it. I know the budget was done long back but I think the Government needs to reconsider this to ensure that the road network is improved and the roads become wider. As Senator Musaka said, there are other big buses such as those from Nyaradzo funeral parlour which will be ferrying mourners. Commuter omnibus drivers do not give way to those buses. Some of the commuter omnibus drivers do not have licences and others use their colleagues’ licences. The police must diligently do their work and make sure they bring to book those who cause accidents.
Even though the owners can buy the coffins and sponsor the funerals, that does not help in any way because it will not bring the lives of the people back. It is painful to see the whole family perishing in a car accident. Personally, I think the number of commuter omnibuses on the roads should be reduced and interrogated. At one time, I got on a commuter omnibus because my vehicle had a problem. The drivers do not even respect the police orders to stop but speed their vehicles. So, if they are people with good moral behaviour, why should they run away from the police? They do not listen to the police at all. It is an issue that we need Government to take up.
In Mashonaland East, people have perished due to these incidences of road carnage and most of them are involved in accidents that are claiming so many lives. The sorry thing is that once a person dies, he cannot be resuscitated. What we want is to protect our children. It is not everyone who has a car; some do not have and we need to protect them. I thank you.
*SENATOR BHOBHO: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to
add my voice to the motion that is before the Senate that was moved by Senator Musaka and the seconder. It is important that we put our heads together as what the Senator who spoke previously said that road carnage is claiming so many lives. I think there are strategies that we need to come up with to ensure that we reduce the number of deaths. There are so many cars, so many commuter omnibuses and the buses are depleting in number.
Even if she has mentioned Chikomba area, when you look at Bulawayo/Harare, there are also quite a number of road carnage incidents. On the issue of commuter omnibuses, I will cite Chegutu. If you are chosen as a Member of Parliament or Senator, you do not only represent you constituency but represent the nation to assist the people of Zimbabwe.
If you go to Chicken Inn, you find buses that will be coming from Bulawayo passing through a tiny road. There will be commuter omnibuses also, including informal traders. If travelling from Harare going to Bulawayo; you should look at what happens at Chicken Inn. It is not a surprising fact that accidents do happen there. The buses no longer go to the terminus; they go to Chicken Inn so that people can buy their food. Yes, people are buying food but that is also causing road carnages. The commuter omnibuses are actually creating their own roads through the forests. So, as we travel with commuter omnibuses, we should encourage people in the commuter omnibuses to speak out.
At one time, I noticed that a commuter omnibus had been stuck in the mud because of using these shortcuts. They were evading the police. The police are there to protect lives of the people. We must fasten seat belts always when we get into our vehicles. We must adhere to that because it is for our safety. As leaders, we need to assist. This is a national issue; it is about our children who are perishing on the roads. We should assist even in an area that is not your constituency. We should discuss these issues here so that we prevent lives being lost because of road accidents.
The buses are very few on the roads and the commuter omnibuses have become so many. If you go down town, there are few people but the commuter omnibuses are many. Yes, people want to survive but there should be a law that protects people, especially their lives. Even children now witness dying people because of these accidents.
So, I want to thank Senator Musakwa for this motion. We need to assist each other. There is no household that is not immune to death.
Yes, people die; accidents do happen but the alarming levels in Zimbabwe are of concern. We need to assist each other as a nation. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Musakwa and his seconder. Mr. President, I think the road carnages incidents are now alarming. He talked of all sectors - the railways, air transport as well as the road transport but what is of concern is that a person spends nine months in the womb and then die. People are passing on in numbers. Where will we go with such people?
Here I am looking at the Beitbridge-Chirundu highway. People who stay around there are no-longer alarmed by accidents. Even children now know that it is the order of the day. They know that once there is a loud bang, it is an accident. They rush to help themselves from the spoils of the dead people. If such a highway which is plied by heavy vehicle trucks that are coming from South Africa and is our major economic route, if only railway lines could be resuscitated as what Hon. Musaka said some goods would then be ferried using the railway line. It would assist us in reducing the road carnages. A heavy truck, once it becomes dark does not care. They do not even realise that there other road users and just do as they please.
When a head-on happens along the road, you find it is the children who perish most, not people above 65 years. In my opinion, the Government as proposed by Hon. Musakwa, should avail a budget to ensure that the railway line is resuscitated and that some goods are transported using the railway route. That might also assist in reducing the road carnage. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you. –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to
add my voice to the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musakwa. It is a pertinent motion concerning road carnage incidents on our roads. I think that it does not please us all as a nation. At one time, I got on the bus from Mbare to my rural home. The driver bought sugar cane and he was busy pealing his sugar cane whilst the door was open, throwing the rubbish through the door. Up to Bindura, he was eating his sugar cane.
The driver did not care about the lives of the people but his sugar cane.
As Zimbabweans, we have failed to mould our morals. If you look at the accident that occurred in Zimunya, that is not pleasant at all. It impacts badly on our image as leaders and it appears we are not there, yet we are there. We need to put our heads together as leaders to ensure that we come up with legislation that people are able to live. We find that even children when coming from their school trips are prone to such accidents.
If you go to any area be it Bulawayo, Mutare or other areas, you find that commuter omnibus touts fight for customers. Their behaviour is the same throughout. My suitcase was taken by the touts whilst other goods were taken by other people. They were fighting to get me as their client. So they force people to get on a particular bus, not for you the traveller to be able to choose the Combi that you want. It means that there is a challenge there. We need to re-visit our laws and legislation because it affects the image of the nation. We have lost so many lives. If we look at Harare, we have children whom we find along the roads begging. We even have women who are begging along the streets that is how they survive. The Combi drivers do not even look at that. They just speed and I do not know how they know all these roads. They do not care whether they are people or not, they do as they please. I think they realised that there are some loopholes in our law. When you talk to them, they behave as if they are the owners of the Combis yet they are workers.
If you complain, as what was mentioned before that as travellers if we complain, we are told that we must buy our own vehicles. They say,
“Why did you get into this Combi, get your own car.” So we have seen a lot of these road carnage incidences caused by the Combis. As leaders, we need to sit down and re-visit our laws to make sure that we give stiffer penalties to offenders and also come up with a strategy as to how these Combis should operate. A Combi that has a carrying capacity of 15 people carries 27 people. You see it written Harare-Mukumbura. It plys that route and goes back and forth, close to the border. As a nation, we need to look into what routes we should have, where a Combi should travel and to and to what point. This is to ensure that we safeguard lives of our people. At the end of the day, it is us who will be found wanting.
I want to thank you Hon. Sen. Musakwa and the seconder for this insight. We might have challenges in that we do not have so many aircrafts but we have never had an air crash. It is true to say that our railways need to be resuscitated. I am sure if the Government gets money, they will avail funding in order for the railways to be improved.
The heavy trucks are a challenge and mostly, the tobacco farmers travel at night. If only you knew the number of lorries or trucks that you meet along the roads - why they travel at night is because they do not have the required documents. They travel around 1 a.m. to go to the tobacco auction floors in order to sell their produce. We know that they want to make money but on the other hand, life does not have any shortcuts.
Once a person is dead, he is dead. We need to value the lives of the people more than we value money. That person might be rich or poor
but we need to value the life of each and every person despite social status. We want to thank Sen. Musaka for the motion that he raised as well as his seconder that as a nation, we need to come up with legislation and ensure that there are stiffer penalties on the issue of our vehicles and transport. The issue of licences and also the age of the drivers needs to be revisited because we are experiencing a lot of challenges through these touts.
When you are talking to them, they have no respect. They tell us to go away and say if we are not interested, we should go and buy our own vehicles. We are all not the same in life. Some use kombis and some have cars, but we need to value the lives of each and every individual because we have lost so many lives on the road. I want to thank Sen.
Musaka as well as his seconder for the motion they raised. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: It was
said that some of the kombis are inscribed ‘Boko Haram’.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. President. Firstly, I would like to sincerely thank Hon. Musaka for the subject he has raised together with his seconder. There are a few things that I would like to relate to. On the issue of road network, we used to have the second best road network in Southern Africa. We have allowed it to deteriorate. It will take us time to rehabilitate those roads. One day I had an unfortunate assignment to go to Sanyati. It took me two hours and Sen. Komichi knows it. It took me two hours to do a 60 kilometre journey and another two hours back. When I got to Harare, I sold that vehicle because when I went for a quotation, it was US$4 000.00. To make things worse, I had persuaded my wife to give me her vehicle. That is how bad our roads can be.
Secondly, Hon. Musaka talked about what we call grey imports. The points he made are valid. We have a document called the MIDP which we produced with the motor industry and handed it over to the Ministry of Industry and Commerce. Unfortunately, we chose to ignore the MIDP because it was designed for our local industry and to serve Willowvale from erratic operations and limit the number of grey imports. The problems that we are creating are monumental. The shortage of spares in that industry is unbelievable, but the point that he makes is valid.
Thirdly, I would like to say when a young man walks up to me and says mudhara, ngitoli licence or ndawana licence, my first and straight question is how much did you pay for it? The answer comes back straight that I paid US$300.00. That means we have no drivers on our roads. We have products and I am sorry to refer to this as products of corruption. I will not extend that. The other threat that we have due to the type of road network that we have is the transfer of business through Zimbabwe to Kazungula.
It is a reality, it is going to happen, it is in the process of happening and unless we do something about our road network, we will lose a huge chunk of our transit fees. I think the key word in what Hon. Musaka is talking about is modernisation. Unfortunately, at the moment our capacity is very low. I do not know how it will take us to modernise, but I agree in total with the Hon. Senator that we need to take steps to modernise our infrastructure. With those words, I lend my support to his motion and congratulate him for bringing up the subject. I thank you –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Thank you Hon. President. I would like to thank the opportunity given to me to add my voice on the other things that we can do as Zimbabweans in trying to solve the problem that we have that is causing too many problems in our roads. I would like to thank Hon. Musaka and the seconder of the motion Hon. Chipanga on the issue of accidents that we are having on our roads. I was thinking that as a way of trying to control especially the commuter omnibuses that are causing too many accidents, there is need to create a school whereby we can teach them customer care.
There has to be associations that will be controlling all the drivers who are driving public transport. For example, if there is a driver who is over speeding or not treating customers well, that can be reported to the members of the association. If we take note of ZUPCO, they used to train all their drivers before the driver has been hired or after, so that they are told all the rules of the company and how to treat the customers.
I think this will be a noble idea. The reason why we are having too many accidents is because of lack of having such associations.
Once we have them, they should be known publicly for it will be easy for members to report any of the drivers who are speeding on the roads. I know we are all aware of the driver who overran a Girls’ High School pupil and we have seen that the courts have sentenced the driver in jail. This is a lesson to other drivers who are driving public transport. It is a way of sensitising them that if you break the rules of the road, you will be accountable to it.
Another thing that I think would assist is that if all the public transport is written hotline numbers at their back, the driver who will be following that car can easily report or phone the hotline number. We have seen in other countries like South Africa that they have the hotline numbers. This would assist us in trying to curb the public transport drivers who are misusing the roads. It will assist those who are using public transport as well and we should know that we have the right to control the driver who will be driving public transport. We can actually stop them from speeding if they are carrying us.
I know and I believe that if the citizens of the country are educated on their rights as citizens, they actually have the right to stop the driver from overspeeding. Most of the times, after an accident has happened, the passengers will start saying but we saw this coming or we talked to the driver about his speed. My question is that you will be inside that car and you are saying that the driver is speeding but you are not doing anything about it. If we take for example Botswana, we will realise that if a driver is overloading, the passengers are the ones who will actually stop him from overloading.
I believe if the Government could assist in educating all our citizens that they have the right to say their views over the public transport that they are using. For example, if the driver of that public transport is not treating the passengers well or speeding, they have the right to tell him to drive properly. I know this will help a lot. We may not be part of the passengers in each and every public transport that has been driven but if all the citizens are educated on their rights when it comes to public transport, this will help in reducing the number of carnages on the roads.
In Bulawayo, public transporters have associations such as Tshova Mubaiwa, Butra and Transit. So, when a passenger is not treated well by the driver or the conductor, one can call on the number displayed at the back or inside the car. The Association will then call the driver for disciplinary measures. All the drivers who are working under those Associations now know the rights of the passengers and they do not insult or mistreat the passengers. It helps sometimes even when we have the lost and founds, you can easily call the associations and you will be able to retrieve your goods. If we try to really emphasise on such associations, we will have control over all the public transport drivers.
Another thing that will assist is to train all our public transport drivers and conductors, especially for the heavy vehicles. I know that they have seen and copied the system that is being used in Bulawayo.
However, in every situation there has to be someone who is a leader.
One last thing that I would highlight is the issue of age limit which is 25 years when it comes to drivers of public service vehicles. Ever since it was introduced, we realised that the number of accidents that have been happening has actually reduced.
Another thing that I would like our country to introduce is having points that can be given to the drivers. If they have done well, they should be given some points and if they are not doing well the points are reduced. For example, in Australia, we realised that out of 12 points, when you go through a red robot, three points are reduced and if all the drivers; that is everybody who drives, if you have your licence, it will be given points, so when you fail to drive properly on the roads, they will be reduced. Thank you.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion. First and foremost, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka for bringing this motion to this august House. Mr. President, the issue of these commuter omnibuses and their drivers; I do not know Mr. President whether they were trained by one person throughout the whole country because they behave in the same manner. You cannot differentiate a kombi driver in Beitbridge from a kombi driver here in Harare; they seem to be the same. I think there should be some stern measures that should be taken so that our people may survive because a lot of lives have been taken away because of these kombi drivers.
Mr. President, I take the issue of these roads especially the Beitbridge-Masvingo-Chirundu-Harare road. To me, it is no longer a road but just a death trap – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]- Mr. President, just last week when I was travelling home from Harare, just around Beatrice, there was a kombi which had fallen into the river. I do not know the name of that river, lives were lost there. As I continued with my journey, along that road, immediately after Mvuma, there was a car which got out of the road, a Toyota and people were trying to take a out a corpse from that car after it had rolled over. Be that as it may, as I travelled further, there was a bus that had burnt to ashes the previous night. Immediately after Ngundu, again there was a haulage truck burning the same day. So, can you imagine the lives that were lost within the same day just because of this road?
Whenever we talk of this road, I think so many people have talked about this road; they have brought in questions in this august House, some written and some orally without notices and some even motions about this road. However, we get the answers that ah, everything is in order, very soon widening or dualisation will be started, here and there you will find that everything is in order yet there is no implementation. We cannot talk and talk without any implementation because lives are being lost. Here, we are talking about the lives of people and they are dying on a daily basis.
Talking of this road Mr. President, you will find that it is so congested, let me just tell you. At the border post there, they clear more than 300 lorries in a day and more than 200 buses cross at the border post every day on the exit and on the other side. Taking into consideration those lorries and those buses, the road is busy for 24 hours. You will recall that last month one of the buses was involved in an accident and we had 13 people who died on the spot. Can you imagine 13 people dying at one time and leaving some injured? We do not know whether those who were injured later on died or they are still alive. These are the problems that we are facing. I know that our country is running short of funds. We do not have enough funds to dualise our main roads, but those are some of the main roads which we should take care of, because it means saving the lives of people.
Also, Mr. President, I urge the Committee on Peace and Security to look at these issues because if people are dying on a daily basis, it is the
Committee’s duty to look into these issues of how best we can reduce the deaths of our people because we are here to represent them. These accidents are being caused by negligent drivers, because sometimes, after drivers have travelled these long journeys, they end up getting too tired. As a result they end up dozing and their trucks get involved in accidents, killing people.
Mr. President, I think there was once a regulation saying that these heavy trucks, after 6 o’clock must not travel. They have to park wherever they will be, but there has been no monitoring on that one as the drivers just travel willy nilly. Even if you travel at whatever time along this road, lorries will be there. In the afternoon, the buses are very few, but three quarters of the buses travel at night and they are carrying passengers. As a result, many people die at night. Even that one that I am reporting about which had 13 deaths, it did not occur during the day, it was at night. What are we doing about that as Zimbabweans who love their country and love their people?
Let us look into this matter seriously and assist our people. Our people look up to us as parliamentarians, as their representatives and hope that we can, maybe, bring sanity into the country without even looking at who has died from which side or where. As Zimbabweans, we need to take care of our people. We have to come up with laws that protect our people and we have to monitor and evaluate what we talk about here. It must not just end in this House. We have to make follow ups, find out whether what we are talking about has been implemented; so that we have a way forward to saving our people’s lives. It does not help us to talk every day and every time competing here, without any action or implementation taking place. We have to monitor and evaluate what we talk about in this august House.
With these few words, Mr. President, I would like once more to thank Hon. Musaka for bringing in this motion so that it is debated fully.
Maybe we will see something happening. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr.
President. I want to thank Senator Musaka for raising this motion, the seconder as well as all those who have debated. I want to add my voice by saying that the issue of incidence of road carnage is a pertinent issue in this nation. Firstly, maybe the Committee on Peace and Security could get statistics on the number of people who lost their lives in road carnages. For you to be able to deal with the issue, you need to know the cause of the whole issue. You need to get to the root of the problem and hence, the statistics are important as well. That is why we do not address these issues.
We always come with issues such as drunken driving, burst tyre or whatever reasons. We want to know the root causes. Some even say the road is different, for example the road to Masvingo that causes most of the accident. From there, there are so many things that we see on the roads that are very obvious, but we do not address these issues. Maybe again, the Thematic Committee on Peace and Security needs to move a motion or legislation.
You find that there are heavy vehicles that breakdown along the road. On one side the wheels are on the tarred road and you find they put branches as a sign that there has been a breakdown. If you are coming from the other side, you do not see that there is a broken down vehicle until you get close to it. So, we need strict liability on the law that says when your truck breaks down, it should be removed from the road immediately before sunset. If they are unable to do that, the Government should step in to remove broken down vehicles. We can engage the private sector and the vehicle can be removed from the road and then the bill is sent to you. You cannot be a danger to other motorist because of your broken down vehicle, leading to the loss of lives. So, the person who does that needs to pay.
The other issue that I see as a challenge is the training that we have especially for drivers. It needs to be revisited. The drivers who drive on the roads, are they qualified drivers? Do you know how licences are being obtained nowadays? I was shocked three months ago when someone began driving lessons and after 13 lessons that person was going for a road test. I was shocked as to how they could go for a road test after a few lessons and he said that he was told that if he were to bring in US$370 he would get a licence. He informed me that the instructor had said that he would be going away and already he had made the booking. He brought the licence and showed me. Those are some of the reasons why so many lives are being claimed on the roads.
I remember there was also an issue that the left-handed trucks had caused the road carnage and we were told that they were being banned, but up to today they are still on the roads. What happened? There were people who were paid a certain amount of money in corrupt tendencies.
It is clear that there are transporters who have money and paid the relevant Ministry to ensure that their trucks are not removed from the roads. So in the end, that was not implemented.
That is the job of Parliament, the oversight function. We should be actually saying no, our oversight function requires that we do A, B, C and D. we should take the Minister and ask him why the condemned left-hand vehicles are still on the road. It is as if the trucks have changed from left to right. How can you condemn such left-handed vehicles and now you say they are okay. If you try to overtake driving a left-handed vehicle, it is a challenge because you cannot see what is on the other side. So we need to address that.
Currently, VID – the condition of vehicles on the roads is also an issue. Even these old cars are always on the road and you will be surprised to see some of these old unroadworthy vehicles on the road, especially at night and people perish and you end up crying. We see all this happening but we have done nothing about it. These are issues that we can address. The VID inspectors no longer check on the small vehicles but only check the kombis, trucks and buses because that is their cash-cow. The small cars are told to pass and what they want are the trucks, bus and kombi drivers because that is where they get cash.
So, we need to talk about that.
I heard in this House that they are termed mushika-shika . Those people who drive mushika-shika vehicles do not have licences but they travel on the highways from Harare to Masvingo and go through the police roadblocks. Long back, without a driver’s licence you could not go on the road. Mr. President, this is an interesting issue to debate. For those who moved the motion Hon. Musaka and the seconder, we come here every week, get fuel and stay in hotels.
If you look back and ask yourselves, what is the outcome of what we discuss? I think as Parliament we need to sit down and ask ourselves, what is the outcome of everything that we do? We know that Parliament has five years. Most motions are just repetition. Motions are debated every year. Next year, someone else will bring the same issue. Last year it was brought by someone else. It is the same motion each and every year. I remember this motion was moved by Hon. Muchena last year. We had this one on road carnage and we are repeating it again.
It seems as leaders, we also have a problem because we keep on debating issues that we always debate. Five years will come to pass and we have 5 or 6 issues being discussed. We should ask ourselves and do introspection that as the Senate, do we understand what we are doing. So, what I am saying Mr. President is that there is need for us to get feedback on what is happening. This transport motion has been debated since 2013. We come here and talk but no one comes here. We come and entertain each other talking about issues, clap our hands and hit our desks, but we do not even see the transport Minister.
You know, we are not living up to our standard. I do not know the parliamentary system but we need to sit down. We have done so many workshops and need to come up with a strategy that once we bring up an issue, we need to call the Minister who will be answerable and give us feedback. This will give us an opportunity to ask questions. Thank you
Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SENATOR MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE FIRST AFRO-ARAB
LEGISLATORS AND BUSINESS SUMMIT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the First Afro-Arab Legislators and Business Summit held in Addis
Ababba, Ethiopia.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SENATOR MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 15th June, 2016.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA), the
Senate adjourned at Seven Minutes past Four o’ clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 15th June 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
POSTPONEMENT OF THE CAPACITY BUILDING
WORKSHOP ON SDGs
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the Senate that the Capacity Building Workshop for the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) where all chairpersons of Portfolio and Thematic Committees and Whips for Parties have been invited to has been postponed to next week, from 23rd to 26th June 2016.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU): I
move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the
Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
LEVELS OF CORRUPTION IN THE COUNTRY
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on monitoring the
Executive performance in dealing with reported cases of corruption.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. TIMVEOS: Thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the motion raised by Hon. Sibanda and seconded by Hon. Makore. The issue of corruption has become widespread and rampant in the nation. When we talk of corruption – everyone knows that there is corruption as what Hon. Sibanda said. Our country, out of 171 countries is on number 150 and it is embarrassing. As Government, we need to look into it and see where exactly we are going wrong. Why is it that people keep on embarking on such corrupt activities?
Madam President, I want to consider that if we had good laws or people being brought to book because of corrupt tendencies, I think that would be a message to others to stop engaging in corrupt activities. When you are involved in corruption, you should either be brought to book or have your limbs cut off and that would be a lesson to others.
Currently, our economy is not performing well but if we were to consider the money that was abused and misused in Chiadzwa, US$15 billion, under corrupt means, it would do something to our economy. I think there is need for us to investigate where the money was taken to and then we bring to book those who abused those funds. Knowing that the people have been brought to book will also help people to understand that as a nation, we are serious in dealing with the issues of corruption.
I would like to look at the issues of Net-one, CMED and also the ZRP on the highways. Do you know what Hon. B. Sibanda said, I thought about it and realised that it is true. Almost every Zimbabwean is now involved in corruption because if you are caught at a roadblock, charged with a fine of $20, you can negotiate your way out and pay them $5 which the police will not receipt. However, by engaging in such corrupt activities, people will be disadvantaging the nation. If that US$5 was to be put to the fiscus, it would go a long way.
Let us look at PSMAS, the pension funds that were looted as well. I remember the name Cuthbert Dube, it became very popular during that period but nothing was done to him. Yes, he lost his job but he was not brought to book and not even arrested. We need to re-consider, since Independence we need to sit down and do some statistics in order to find out how many people were arrested and served their sentences for corruption. I would like to urge my fellow Senators that we should come up with legislation that inhibits corruption.
On another note, I want to look at the issue of the police officers; there was a lady who found US$2000.00 which had been hidden by the police in the bush at a roadblock. It is an issue that was quite viral in the past weeks – which is corruption. So, as Hon. Sibanda said, we can talk about it again and again. If we look at children today, functions and all other things but we also need to look at corruption and investigate the funds that have been lost due to corruption. If we were able to harness the money that is being taken through corrupt activities, will that not help our nation? So, I want to support Hon. Sibanda for his motion and his recommendations on what we should do as Senators for us to bring an end to corrupt activities.
HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Madam President. I rise to support the motion moved by Senator Sibanda. I also wish to thank the comments that were made by Chief Charumbira and Senator Mawire, where the two Senators called for action. We come here, we debate and it ends there. I think this is the time as Senators that we take a position that when we debate issues of national concern, action is taken. I want to say at the end of the debate, there must be some practical action that is going to take place because this is a very important motion. The motion is calling for action and we should stop finger pointing. At times when we debate these important motions, we end up politicizing, we debate on partisan grounds. We want to look at this issue as Senators who are representatives of the communities where we come from.
It takes two to tango Madam President. The first thing is that we should not be the other partner when we talk about ‘two to tango’. In other words, we should not be involved ourselves as Members of Parliament. At times we are also caught up in these issues of corruption and if we start by declaring corruption as a cancer ourselves and practically stop participating in corrupt activities, we may start making a difference.
Madam President, it is difficult in most cases to prove corruption cases and I am proposing that the Anti-Corruption Commission must be fully empowered so that when they investigate, we do not have Executive influence. At times they fail to do their work because they themselves are threatened in the process, so we cannot stop corruption if there is Executive interference in the operations of the Anti-Corruption
Commission.
It is also important Madam President that when we look at appointment of boards, why should we have one person sitting in so many boards? In these boards, these are the people who decide the salaries of management. So, if they are going to decide on the salaries of management, they are also deciding on their own salaries as board members. In so doing, there is a lot of corruption that takes place. So we must demand that one person sits on one board. Why should we have same people sitting on so many boards? This is part of corruption because that is where people make money. There were examples that were revised while discussing ZBC corrupt activities. After court processes there was no strong case because the board members themselves approved the management salaries. Board members were also receiving very high allowances and to me that is part of corruption –
[HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
Madam President, it is also important that as we discuss this motion, we should also look at possibilities of improving the economy. Corruption may also be an issue that is coming from the poverty levels of this country. It may be coming from issues of unfair distribution of resources and we are simply saying as we discuss this motion, we should look at possible ways where we can resuscitate our economy so that we have equitable distribution of resources in the country. We should also maybe have what I may call ‘Operation Hupfumi Wakahuwana Kupi?’ because I do not understand, Madam President, when someone is building a property worth millions of dollars, if not billions of dollars. A civil servant and no one bothers to ask where that money is coming from. I am not wrong if I conclude that there must have been some level of corruption. If you are talking of people who have so many farms and so many stands in urban areas, how have they managed to get these? I conclude there is some level of corruption. So, Madam President, I am saying there are so many things that can reflect corruption and we need to deal with that and get solutions to it.
As Parliamentarians, we had an organisation at Parliament in the
Sixth and Seventh Parliament called African Parliamentarian Network
Against Corruption (APNEC). This was an attempt by Parliamentarians to look at corrupt activities and get solutions. Unfortunately, in the
Eight Parliament it was not resuscitated. I am calling upon this august
House that we resuscitate it because it was an opportunity approved by Parliament that we have an organisation of Parliamentarians that would resuscitate APNEC and start looking at corrupt activities and find solutions so that once there is a corrupt activity, it is exposed and people take action. We must start, as Parliamentarians, to lobby for action. I thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. BHOBHO: Thank you Madam President. I want to thank Senator Sibanda for the motion that he raised on corruption. It is true that we need to work as a united force when it comes to corruption. No one is happy when funds are being abused. We need to work together to end this evil because the President is in trouble. He is always moving to different countries trying to ensure that his people’s welfare is met. We end up saying that the President should declare a national disaster in terms of hunger because we have lazy people who do not
want to work but engage in corrupt activities. It is good for us to stand up.
There is a company that has a policy that once a person abuses funds or defrauds a company, that person is fired, but as a Government, we are not able to do that and we let them go, yet what they would have done is bad. Sanctions have also affected our economy because these are the sanctions that have caused this corruption.
So, let us consider this issue and realise that it is us, the children of Zimbabwe, who are suffering. Yes, we need to come up with measures to ensure that the people who have engaged in corruption are brought to book. It is like having a person who is a witch. Once we call them a witch and just talk about it without doing anything, it does not make sense. So, we need to pin point and name and shame people engage in corruption because if we go to the police and request that they give us evidence, they will give us names of people who are engaged in corrupt activities, but we, as Senate, also need to assist as the eyes of the people.
Let us not just watch and sit idle like we do.
We were put in this august House to be the eyes. We should not only look at our constituencies. We are in this august House to look at all areas in any part of the country. You came into this House to come up with measures to ensure that we reduce the level of corruption. We know that laws are broken here and there, even in the Bible at the beginning of the world. So, today we need to strengthen our oversight role and take up the issue of corruption, not along party lines, but as people of Zimbabwe. It does not matter whether you are light in complexion, dark, fat or thin. The President works for his nation and we should take a leaf from him. I hope and wish that all of us could have the same commitment that the President has. I pray that I may have the same commitment.
Instead of assisting the President, we stand idle while corruption takes place. As we debate in this House, we are debating about our nation, what is affecting our nation. This motion is very pertinent and we should all work together and look at the root causes so that we can assist each other in our nation. Sanctions have affected even our children up to today. Do you know that if you hurt yourself, the scar will not go away? Where I got hurt while I was still a child, the scar is still there. So, right now, the sanctions issue is like the scar. The President is trying hard to address this issue, but the scar will still remain. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam President. I
also want to add my voice to the motion that is being debated, the motion that was raised by Hon. Sibanda and seconded by Hon. Makore. I think that at my age, some are embarrassed of telling us their ages. I am not embarrassed, I am 68 years old.
At independence that is when corruption came into being, when we attained independence in 1980. I want to thank the Hon. Senator who spoke before me. The President, yes, we are disadvantaging him. We put him in a tight spot because corruption began with the people that he was working with and he did not know what to do because he came from the war with his people and that becomes an issue. So with time, this ill kept on growing and growing. I was also in the field.
Forgive me. Let me say what I want to say. Comrade Chikore was given diesel at the Ministry of Energy and he finished it. Hon. Kangai was given maize at the GMB and all the produce was – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -.
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: Order, order.
Hon. Senator, please take your seat. Hon. Members we do not talk about things that we do not have evidence of. A person who is convicted in court has evidence. We cannot debate about a person who cannot come here and defend themselves. Yes, the motion is on corruption. Let us debate the motion but without mentioning names of people who are not here, especially people who have now passed on and can never come to this august House to defend themselves. So, I urge you Hon. Senators not to get carried away whilst contributing. Let us remember our rules. We do not talk about a person who does not have the opportunity to come and defend themselves. Let us talk of facts that can be supported by the Courts of Zimbabwe.
*HON. SEN. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam President. I
thought maybe by bringing our thoughts together and looking at how corruption began will assist us. For that reason I am sorry Madam
President.
What I am saying is that corruption is something that has become rampant and difficult to get rid of. Even today when children are in the kombis, they say that the police are being given money around 5.00 p.m so that the next day the kombis can ply their route without interception by the police. After the unfreezing of nurses posts, my child got a job and he called to say I should send him $200 that needed to be paid otherwise he would not get the job. That is money that is going to someone who is employed but engaging in corruption.
Tell me, how can a mother at home and is not earning anything get the money to pay? It means the child can go to school. So, corruption is very difficult to get rid of. I got sick in 2013 and they needed $300 for me to be admitted. I requested my kids to go back home and look for the money. The children told me no, there is someone that we have already given $100 for us to get a bed. That is now corruption and I do not know what is happening. Is it something that has been spread around? Even the committee that is going around trying to curb corruption, whoever they get hold of and try to bring to book is never arrested.
So, as this august House, what can we do to bring corruption to an end? Even children in our homes are even engaging in corruption. They can actually trick you and engage in corruption in the house. If you ask them where the money went, they will keep on telling you to ask so and so and you do not get an answer. So, it is an ill that is spreading and I do not know how we are going to run this nation considering that corruption is now everywhere. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
DETERIORATION IN THE ROADS AND RAILWAY
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alarming incidents of road carnage due to dilapidated infrastructure, obsolete vehicles and human error.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. BHEBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to debate on the motion that was brought to this House by Hon. Musaka and seconded by Hon. Sen Chipanga. This is a very important motion to debate in this House for I thank the mover of the motion. So, it is very good and important that we debate this motion due to the road carnages that have been happening of late. When you looked at the motion, you ask yourself tomorrow I really have to travel by road. People will actually see you getting outside your house and thinking deeply whether you will reach your destination or not because of the road carnages that have been happening.
First and foremost, when you think of travelling, even if you are not a Christian - the first thing that you do is to pray and ask for journey mercies from God, for we realise that too many accidents are occurring on our roads. That is why I feel this motion is very important for us to debate. I was also touched by the words articulated by Hon. Sen Chief Charumbira who said that this motion was debated during the last Parliament. It is being debated again in this current term of Parliament and will be debated again in the coming Parliament but there is nothing or any action being taken. Therefore, I feel like we are just discussing just for sake of passing time.
We realise so many people have lost their lives due to road carnages. I heard on the morning news when it was reported that there are ten people who died and also some Dynamos supporters, all due to the bad state of roads and the cars being driven that are not road worthy. You realise that when someone is travelling, the people that are left behind will only relax after the person travelling has confirmed that they have reached their destination. I realise Mr. President that most of the speakers who debated before me have highlighted one important thing that we should do, that is to take action on everything that we debate. Yes, we have been singing that there are too many accidents that are happening on the roads and some of the things that have to be done to all the drivers of public transport have already been said.
I will give an example and say, maybe 10 out of all the drivers in Zimbabwe got their licenses properly whilst most of them got them through bribery. I do not know what can be done so that when someone is getting their licence, they have to get it in a proper way and not through bribing and everything has to be checked. I think what causes most of the drivers to bribe to get their licences from VID when they are trying to secure their provisional, you realise that the person keeps on failing, maybe let us say number 12. The following week they say you failed number 13; the next day they say you have failed number 14. For example, one speaker said they can say there is a missing page in the passport and when it comes to VID, it means there will be a missing number. Therefore, those who will be trying to acquire their provisional, what they will then do is to add the number and that will be through bribery. At the end, we will have drivers who are not well versed with the rules of the roads. They will end up getting their licences through bribery.
I therefore, urge all Zimbabweans to get their licences through proper ways. We know that there are too many automatic vehicles, most people are using automatic cars and do not know how to drive manual cars. How I pray that the Zimbabwean Government tightens road laws, because we have had so many accidents. We have lost so many lives through road accidents. An overload bus will pass through a road block carrying extra fuel in containers to refill their cars using small pipes. Such buses will pass through the roadblocks; what I want to know is how they pass roadblocks. This is another sign of corruption and bribery that the policemen will be getting.
Most of the Hon. Senators who spoke before me have highlighted that this thing has been debated over and over again but there is no action that has been taken whilst so many lives have been lost through road accidents. I wish Government could take action on this. I do not know whether I am supposed to go to the President to enquire if there are ways that can be done. When travelling to Nkayi; if you leave Harare in the morning, it will take you long to get to Nkayi centre. If you try to travel further, it will be difficult because of bad roads; you cannot travel to other places.
This is a very difficult issue that we are discussing. If you go to Binga, even some residents from Binga do not even know Bulawayo for they do not have proper roads to travel on. So many lives have been lost through road accidents. Some of the highway roads that we have do not have humps. If there are humps, it forces the driver to reduce speed and if there are no humps, the driver will travel at whatever speed along that highway ignoring the speeds limits.
Another issue that I want to bring up is, if only we could put a limit or time limit on the huge trucks, the time they are supposed to be traveling on the roads. These are the few words that I have Mr.
President. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President, for giving
me the opportunity to support the motion that was raised by Senator Musaka. Our transport - air, road and rail are in a deplorable state, it is true. Before I proceed, I also want to put emphasis on the words alluded to by Senator Chief Charumbira that, why is it that we continue to talk and talk yet no one is listening to us. They are turning a deaf ear on us.
As the three pillars of State, Parliament is the third arm and has its role.
We debate a lot and oversee the work of the Executive which is also one of the pillars of the State because they are the ones with the powers. They have the wisdom as well as strategies to solve such problems. They ignore us; we live in hotels, eat, drink and go back and nothing is being done. I want to put emphasis on the fact that the
Executive needs to act on that. I also want to say that the head of the
Executive is His Excellency President Mugabe. The head of the
Judiciary is Chief Justice Chidyausiku and the head of Parliament is the Speaker of Parliament. We request that they take whatever we debate in this Senate seriously so that we can assist each other.
If you look at the state of our roads here in Zimbabwe, even those that are tarred, some of which were once tarred, are in bad state. An example that was given by Hon. Sibanda was that he went to Sanyati and was deeply pained. If you use the Sanyati road, you will be shocked that it is actually better to go through the bush than using the road because of its deplorable nature.
The time that you are supposed to spend on the road is doubled because of its deplorable state. The vehicle that you will be using is also at a risk of getting damaged because in terms of suspension, it is will be destroyed by the road network. For that reason, you end up pumping a lot of money in order to repair the car. The money that you will spend should have been used to send children to school, buy food and clothes them. That is no longer possible because you have to maintain the vehicle that was destroyed by the poor road network. So, we end up being poor because of the poor state of our roads as money is now being spent on maintenance of our vehicles. The roads are also a network to business people.
When a person is coming to invest in Zimbabwe, they will consider the road network because they know that their business might end up expensive or a challenge because of poor road network. We end up losing business and investors because of our poor roads. Our children too end up not getting jobs because of lack of investors; business is what will make our economy strong. The economy itself will be affected by the poor roads. If our roads were good - [Cell phone rings] - My apologies, I forgot to switch off my phone.
If our road network was in a good state, we would have business people investing in Zimbabwe on their way to other countries. They would be crossing to Zambia, Namibia and Mozambique. So Zimbabwe is supposed to be the hub where all roads should converge in Southern Africa. If our roads had been in a good state, it would actually bring a lot of income to the nation and jobs would be available to our children. The Government is mandated to make Zimbabwe the hub of road networks in order to develop our economy. So you will find people prefer to use roads that border our country because of the deplorable nature of the roads. So we urge those mandated with the duty to see to it that our roads are roadworthy to look into the issue.
Just consider that the railway line would be used one day for rail transport - it is surprising. Some are sinking and the signals that were once there are now obsolete and not working. The downfall of NRZ has immense impact on the economy. Our goods used to come through the rail but those goods are no longer coming through because of the poor railway network. The train that came from Mozambique to Botswana is no longer coming and the South Africa to Zambia one no longer passes through here. There is no partnership because the railway network is bad. Instead there is an increase in haulage trucks moving on the roasds and Masvingo road has claimed so many lives because of its poor road network.
Because of the terrible state of our roads and rail network, we are experiencing economic challenges. People are not getting their salaries and poverty has increased in this nation. Railways at one time used to employ 7 500 workers. Their families and may be about 20 000 people are living in poverty because of the NRZ. If the NRZ is modernised and resuscitated and Hon. Sen. Musaka talked about it, that it should become a good transport system, to travel with. If you use the modern rail transport system, there is comfort and you can travel safely. If we were to resuscitate our railway system, people would stop using cars preferring to travel to Bulawayo using rail transport. Currently, that is not feasible.
If we look at air transport, long ago children used to go and tour the airport to see the aircrafts landing and departing. It was funny seeing those airplanes. Zimbabwe is a nation that touches many hearts in
Africa, China, Russia and America. Once the people abroad hear of
Zimbabwe, they become excited. That used to happen before. Why is that it is a thing of the past? Is it not possible for Zimbabwe to regain its economic status? That brought foreign currency and improved the tourism sector. It will assist Air Zimbabwe to be able to pay its workers salaries as well as increasing money to the fiscus for them to support
Government activities.
What we are witnessing is the deterioration of the roads, air and railway transport. So what we want to say is that those people who are occupying these posts to deal with such issues should not sit on their laurels but need to work hard. If they do, the cost of transport will become unattainable. The business man will pass on the cost to the consumer and we end up buying expensive goods. Yes, men we experience poverty but women experience more poverty and including the youth. However, it is the girl child who experiences a lot of poverty as well as people with disabilities, the elderly as well.
As leaders and the three arms of the State, we need to take responsibility and ensure that the lives of the people are improved and come up with measures that will assist our nation to become habitable.
Zimbabwe is on an economic downturn in these three areas - air, road and rail transport. So we are mandated to take ownership of failure of these institutions, that is the road net work as well as the NRZ.
HON. SEN. D. T. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President. I am saying this motion comes up with at least three systems of communication which are listed here - that is air, road and railway. A lot of us have discussed the issues of the road. I have discovered that roads in different areas are sometimes worked different times.
I will give you an example of the road that goes to Nkayi. That road is not good, it is very bad but to my surprise, it is usually worked towards elections. When I arrived from where I was in 1995, that road had been started. Until now, only 30 kilometres are done. When the elections come, it is quickly done so that people can say now the road is being done. Can we be honest and do things like we are developing our people and ourselves, not just for campaigning. That road is called a campaign road.
I hope it would be a road to be worked on not only during campaigns, because people die even when there are no campaigns. So, we are requesting some of those things and not only that road. I have just brought that one but there is also the problem of the Beitbridge road, from Harare to Beitbridge. People have talked about it and I should not say much. The Victoria Falls road, people can think that it is a good
road. Within the 40 to 60 kilometres, there is a serious bumping area. I know that they are now working towards Insiza but that area needs to be worked on because vehicles cannot just travel smoothly.
Those who do not know usually fall into accidents on that area because the road is bumpy. It needs preparation so that we avoid the accidents which are happening in those areas. On air travel, we used to be proud just after independence when we were travelling. Everybody would say your country Zimbabwe is very good and things are done properly. When you are flying things are done on time. You do not have a next page like in other countries where they have a second page.
When we started discussing the issue of these second pages like what somebody has said, our air flights have gone down. As we can see, we are learning that when we make mistakes and mix things, corruption plus business, things do not go well. At that time, we were not at this stage of corruption and things were better. We were travelling in a better way. I had a six month stint in Mt. Darwin. I went there at the right time where people were ploughing. I used my hands and got a lot of maize. I took that maize to my parents. I went by railways and it did not cost much. Does the country not see that the railways are a cheap source of travel and a cheap source of transporting our goods?
Railways need to be thought of by any country which needs development. Railways do not break every time like the roads. Now because we are using trucks, last time the Minister of Finance and Economic Development indicated that there is need to resuscitate the railways. It will not be easy to resuscitate the railways because people who own trucks will always give us a discouragement in a different manner. They may be discouraged by having the second page or the third page, unless we need to take a stand as a country and say we do not want haulage trucks. Haulage trucks (magonyeti) must go so that the railways is revived. This way, our economy will be better than what it is.
The railways will improve our economy. We will transport our goods easier and at a low cost. So, I hope what the Minister said that the railways needs to be resuscitated, we are all going to work hard and refuse the use of haulage trucks which are destroying roads. The small vehicles find it difficult to travel in roads which have haulage trucks and with our understanding, Zimbabwe is a central country where South Africa has its goods going to Zambia and Malawi. The railways would be a better system than using the haulage trucks which are destroying our roads.
Our economy would flourish because once you start using the railways; you hire more people than the haulage trucks but your business and your goods travel faster. Someone said the railways are much slower than the haulage trucks; they are slower in countries which are not doing it properly. If you do it properly, like the other countries, as Zimbabwe, we will be number one in the use of the railways. Since China is our best friend, why do we not imitate good things from our best friends? The next one is the United States of America. May be we can leave this one but however, we need to go forward.
We say let us lean to that and I am saying where we want to lean to as a country. Why do we not imitate such countries like China, India and Canada? These are the countries which are developing because they are using the railways. They have studied and seen that it is the best method of ferrying goods. It is cheaper and faster. I know Zimbabwe is saying it is slower. It is slower because we are not doing it properly. Let us go and learn from our best friends how to do things.
We are not even mentioned among other African countries as a country that uses railways. I hope as a country, we will appreciate to improve on our railways. Let me give a few advantages of railways. You organise and keep time. You can put your time and say the schedule is this one. It is easier to keep the schedule of railways. It can carry heavy or bulky goods, for example in mining, you can go and process within Zimbabwe in another corner and it will be easier. Now each group is trying to process value addition here and there but if our railways were working properly, we could have a central place where we do our value addition.
We could not be moving our diamonds to China so that they do it for us. We could be putting these things together within our country. It is cheaper, economical and there are fewer employees needed within the railways. I am dealing with the transportation which is in this country. It says different transportation and railways is part of that transportation system. It only needs one driver and an assistant at one time when the length of it can be 600 metres. That means it can have 200 coaches which can be pulled by two people. So it is as much cheaper using the railways. It is generally safe to use the railways, that is why the developed countries and the developing countries like China which is catching up in development, is using the railways.
So, as a country and as the Members of the Senate, can we help our country to develop the railways and can we remind the Minister of Transport and Infrastructure Development that he promised that the railways is going to be resuscitated and we move forward. That will mean our economy will be better than what it is. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President for
giving me the opportunity to add my voice on the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Musaka. I will start by some of the issues that were mentioned by my previous speaker. Most of us agree that railway transport gives real cost to the products because it is a cheap mode of transport and it is an issue that we can all agree on.
There is also an issue these days, we have heard that there are those who go through the border and say that they are on their way to Zambia but dump their things at the border post which are then sold at a cheaper price. I think if such goods are brought in through the railway system, it will assist us. If a coach comes with a consignment going to its destination, I do not think there will be such tendencies to engage in shortcuts and our prices will become affordable. We will no longer have unfair competition.
There was the issue of signals that was mentioned that these are no longer working. I do not think they are so expensive to replace. We have a lot of copper in Zimbabwe but with the current technology of mobile phones and satellites, if we use the mobile companies that we have, Econet, Netone and Telecel, we will get these signals up and running in no time. It will not be as expensive, unlike if we want to start relining the copper cables once again. We now have a lot of cell phones and satellite, I heard TelOne saying that they have a base station that has international satellites in Gweru – those are the things that we can use through the airwaves and that can actually be used to control the signals.
I think the Government needs to really consider this issue especially the signal systems for the railways. Resuscitation of the railways has advantages and I think it will also resuscitate other industries such as ZISCO Steel. Steel is important when it comes to railway transport. So, if we look into it, we will have multiple benefits from it.
On the issue of road transport, currently we are all bemoaning the deplorable state of our roads; the Beitbridge-Bulawayo to Victoria Falls roads need dualisation for them to be road worthy. So, when we sit down and come up with such ideas, we should also consider other roads such as Mutare-Masvingo-Mbalabala-Zvishavane-Gweru-Kwekwe. I think we need to dualise all the roads since we would have started because once you have started, it is better to ensure that you embark on the project on a large scale, not to say we will eventually do this and
that.
The planning for all roads should be done now, if we have finished the two major roads, then we can look at Mutare-Masvingo-Mbalabala and all other networks; so that once one is completed, we automatically engage on other road, even if it costs US$100 or US$200, we need to come up with a comprehensive plan and not to lie idle for the next five or ten years.
If you look at the pot holes that are on the roads; one day I took my car for service specifically, wheel balancing. However, it took three days, when I inquired, I was told that where they take their vehicles to, the vehicles hit potholes and that really affects the rims of the tyres. The company that does this actually straightens the rims as well. So, they told me that the other wheel had a rim that was burnt, so it had to be professionally done to straighten it. They worked on it and it was out in no time. I ended up paying $500 for the service and the wheel balancing as well as straightening the rim.
So, I think those responsible for roads in towns and in other areas, should ensure that this is addressed because people end up losing money to maintenance of vehicles because of the potholes which is money that can be channeled to other use such as looking after our families. The road infrastructure needs attention. In other areas for example, in Highfield where we stay; as I was growing up, I was told that these haulage trucks should not be found in the residential areas. We were told that as heavy as they are, 10 tonnes, 15 tonnes to 30 tonnes; because of their weight, it will have an impact on the piping that is underground.
However, those responsible authorities who are supposed to bring to book these truck drivers who bring haulage trucks in residential areas ignore this and hence the haulage trucks are always a common sight in the residential areas. As a result, there is always pipe bursts in different areas because of these haulage trucks. I think local authorities and those who are responsible should address these issues. Even where there is a road junction for example at Machipisa shopping centre, you find haulage trucks parked there and it is very difficult to maneuver your way through. So, the responsible people should take action. Even at ZBC, I heard that there were haulage trucks that were blocking the way and drivers actually had to go round through Mbare Musika in order to get to their destination. So, it is important that the responsible authorities take action. These haulage trucks also do not normally adhere to the traffic lights and need to be brought to book.
On the issue of accidents that are happening because of the fraudulently acquired licences; I think the issue is that the licences are difficult to attain. What makes the attainment of licences difficult? That is what we need to look into because that is the root cause. Once the clever ones realise that the money is not coming through, they end up sending messages on multi-social media telling people that there is no cooking oil and people will rush and buy in bulk such products. So, I think we need to investigate why these licences are difficult to attain. The provisional licences that they first acquire are a challenge because people always fail. I realised that at one time when my sons went to get provisional licences, they had challenges. One had challenges in getting a provisional licence and the other had challenges in getting a licence.
What I was then told is that the time that a person is given to respond to the provisional licence questions does not allow time to think. So you need to work within the given limited time. So, I think you would find that those who pass will not have done well, but that they will have won a lottery. It is a fluke, it is not genuine. So, I think the time allocated for the provisional examination is where we should start off and ensure that the time is revised. When people fail, they become frustrated and once there is frustration, corrupt activities then take place.
Secondly, on the issue of provisional licences the challenge in
Zimbabwe is that we said we are an Anglophone country. We are English speaking because we do not want to use our vernacular languages. Others say it is tribalism while others say it is underdevelopment. What then happens, from what in know and from what I have heard, is that the provisional licences are in English and also the Highway Code that was read to me. Instead of testing the practical driving, we test the English that is written for provisional licences. So, I think there is something that needs to be done away with and people should use their vernacular languages in writing a provisional licence. They should know what they should do when they get to a T-junction in vernacular. So, it is important that we have those examinations written in vernacular.
In other areas, they use their languages such as Arabic or French and the tests are not as difficult in other countries as it is here. Provisional licences should not be scarce here because this scarcity is what then breeds corruption. That should be addressed. I think that once we do that and ensure that the Highway Code is in our vernacular languages or even having colleges that will train people for provisional licences and also, allotting enough time for writing provisional tests, that should assist us. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF DANDAWA: Thank you Mr. President for
the time that you have given me. I want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Musaka. What I have also realised that needs to be addressed to deal with the problem of road carnage incidence is the issue of potholes that are found on the roads. Our expectation is that there should be road maintenance or the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development should expeditiously attend to some of these cases because they delay in taking action hence, causing accidents.
There is another issue. Last time there was an Hon. Minister who said that commuter omnibuses should not be given long routes. Yes, it is a good idea, but what I have realised is that the drivers who are driving commuter omnibuses, once they acquire licences today, tomorrow they are out driving a commuter omnibus carrying 15 people. They are not experienced drivers and the police on the road do not even look at the driver’s licences to see if they have five years experience. The law says that a person driving a commuter omnibus should have five years driving experience. In Mbare, that is not happening. Even in and around the urban centres. The police need to look into it.
They are also supposed to have a medical which should be renewed at certain intervals. That is not being looked into. They are just attaining licences and going to drive commuter omnibuses. That is contributing to the number of accidents. I think the police should also assist in checking whether the drivers have their medical papers, the five years experience, as well as the age factor.
On the issue of licencing, we need to seriously look into this because others are getting licences and yet they cannot drive. They are told, as long as you go through the drums and parallel parking, you are given a licence. So, once you do parallel parking, hill start and the drums, you get your licence, yet the issue is on driving on the roads. So, the VID officers are engaged in corruption. We need to consider this and ensure that we address this issue. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE FIRST AFRO-ARAB
LEGISLATORS AND BUSINESS SUMMIT
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the First Afro-Arab Legislators and Business Summit held in Addis Ababa,
Ethiopia.
HON. MASUKU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS CENTRED ON
DEVOLUTION OF POWER
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the call for Government to implement the devolution of power as provided for in the
Constitution.
HON. SEN. CARTER: Thank you Mr. President. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute on this motion moved by Senator Ncube. The national Constitution adopted in 2013 provides for the devolution of power of Government from central to democratically urban and rural councils.
Under section 276 (1), these elected councils have the following principal function; “Subject to this Constitution and any Act of Parliament, a local authority has the right to govern, on its own initiative, the local affairs of the people within the area for which it has been established and has all the powers necessary for it to do so.”
For three years now, the Government has failed to show any goodwill towards implementing devolution. There has not been any legislation brought before Parliament to even begin the complicated debate which will follow this topic. We must ask the question, why not? Devolution is about local empowerment but our Government is actually working in the opposite direction to that. I would like to illustrate that the Government using the Local Government Laws Amendment Bill seeks to amend section 157 and 114 of the Rural District Councils Act and the Urban Councils Act respectively.
Here is an opportunity to align local Government to the
Constitution. I know this Act is coming up and it will be debated but just to allow a bit of freedom just to illustrate what is coming in that Act, because it relates to devolution. The Act should be amended to reduce the excessive powers of the Minister. It should devolve power to councils. It should empower the councils to take control and responsibility for their work and then to hold them accountable.
Yet the proposed legislation which we will see later coming to this House does not do any of this, it only proposes an independent tribunal that should be established for the purpose of removing mayors, council chairpersons and councilors. So the Government is cherry picking from the Constitution and amending it to suit its own agenda and increase the control at the centre. The proposed tribunal which it will bring should only be in place within the context of devolution. The Constitution understood that this process will take place within the process of devolution. Without devolution in place this tribunal will not be independent and will be used to strengthen the power of the Minister, which goes against, not only the spirit but also the letter of the
Constitution.
Government speaks of the Constitution providing a new vision for
Zimbabwe but it only implements those parts which suit its agenda. The
Government is not wholehearted in its approach. When it comes to the Constitution, Government fails to walk the talk. It continues to put politics before production as it looks ahead to the next election. We will not see devolution in the near future, I am afraid.
At the heart of devolution is the concept of democracy and this is really the issue that our Government fears. Our Government is obsessed with control because it does not trust its own people with democracy and because Government is working against the spirit of devolution and therefore democracy, we as democrats cannot be persuaded to trust a Government which is skeptical of its own Constitution. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. MURONZI: I want to add a few words on the motion on devolution of power and provincial assemblies. I thank Hon.
Sen. Ncube and Sen. B. Sibanda who raised the motion to remind the Government that it needs to implement this provision. I see this provision as good, that each province should have its own provincial assembly seeing to the development of their province but at the same time reporting at national level.
The issue of devolution deeply concerns me. I was born in Mutoko and we stayed there for years while the area was still more of a bush. We did not see any hyenas coming to feed on our animals but when people were resettled, we realised that the hyenas were now coming to the households to devour our livestock. What pains us is that we are the people in the community and there is nothing that we get from the granite that is mined there. There is no production that is taking place. There is no road network and clinic that was built by the people who extract this granite rock. Instead of the traditional leaders and the community benefitting from their resources that is not happening – instead, people are experiencing poverty and are being troubled by the hyenas that are coming from the mountains which are devouring our hard earned livestock. That actually pains me.
So, I support this motion in that if only the Government could implement these provincial assemblies in line with devolution of power. I also want to remind and urge people in this august House. I am deeply touched because this issue was requested for by people during the Constitution making process and it was agreed. There were actually names that were announced by ZEC of who makes up the provincial assembly. What pains me is that when this motion is brought to the House, we need to assist each other to ensure what is positive is seconded.
I become concerned when others say that the Government does not have money but does it give you joy to know that people were put in as provincial assemblies, you are here but you say there is no money for the assemblies. You come here and you complain when you do not get your coupons. You were put there as a representative of the people. I think that spirit of saying the Government does not have money should be brought to an end. It is not for us to defend the Government because in future you will not get leadership positions because of this statement that the Government is broke.
What we should stand up and say is that the Government should source funding to ensure that implementation takes place. Whatever you are saying out there is being heard. The people know. Let us say the Government should look for funds. People are getting everything that we are saying. The Board that a member should be sitting on in provincial assemblies should be in place and that person should be getting money so we need to change our language. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. MAPUNGWANA: With profound respect President
of the Senate, I would like to first thank the President of MDC-T, Dr. Richard Morgan Tsvangirai for appointing me to represent MDC-T in this august Senate.
Mr. President of the Senate, on the 17th of July, in the year of our
Lord 2012, Zimbabweans went for a Referendum and expressed their wishes and will on how they want to be governed by the Zimbabwe Government. On 23 May, in the year of our Lord 2013, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, signed the draft Constitution into law. The President of Zimbabwe in terms of the Constitution assigned relevant Ministries to come up with Bills, so as to align certain provisions with the people driven Constitution. It is now 36 months which relates to 3 years after the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe signed the Constitution. Let me air fundamental implications in regards to some constitutional issues which are yet to be implemented, in particular by the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
Mr. President of the Senate, allow me to quote the Constitution of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Chapter 14 under Provincial and Local Government, Section 264, Subtitle Devolution of Governmental Powers and Responsibilities.
Subsection (2) (a) up to (f)
Section 2 says; ‘the objectives of the Devolution of Governmental Powers and Responsibilities to provincial and metropolitan councils and local authorities are
- To give powers of local governance to the people and enhance their participation in the exercise of the powers of the State and in making decisions affection them.
- To promote democratic, effective, transparent, accountable and coherent Government in Zimbabwe as a whole;
- To preserve and foster the peace, national unity and indivisibility of Zimbabwe;
- To recognise the right of communities to manage their own affairs and to further their development;
- To ensure the equitable sharing of local and national resources;
- And to transfer responsibilities and resources from the National Government in order to establish a sound financial
base for each provincial and metropolitan council and local authority.
On the 7th of April 2016, the Speaker of the National Assembly advised the House that on the 25th of February 2016, Parliament of Zimbabwe received a petition from Public Policy Research of Zimbabwe and its partners in civil society beseeching Parliament to ensure that relevant Government Ministries and departments implement Chapter 14 of the Constitution; and the petition was referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. I believe the Portfolio Committee on Local Government, Public Works and National Housing forwarded their recommendations to the Minister.
Mr. President of the Senate, Section 270 Paragraph (2) of the Zimbabwe Constitution demands that an Act of Parliament must provide for the establishment, structure and staff of provincial and metropolitan councils, and the manner in which they exercise their functions. It is a fact that ZANU PF advocated for a unitary state during COPAC. It is in the public domain that the Minister of Local Government and the Mayor of Harare are at logger heads.
After the Minister of Local Government had received recommendations regarding the petition from public research of
Zimbabwe beseeching Parliament to ensure that relevant Government
Ministries and departments implementing Chapter 14 of the Constitution, the Minister decides to choose and pick sections of the
Constitution which he wants to align.
Currently, the Minister of Local Government has introduced a Bill [H.B 1, 2016], which says that an Act of Parliament must provide the establishment of an independent tribunal to exercise the functions of removing from office Mayors, Chairpersons and Councillors, but any such removal must only be on the grounds of
- Inability to perform the functions of their office due to mental or physical incapacity
- Gross incompetence.
- Conviction of an offence involving dishonesty, corruption or abuse of office or;
- Willful violation of the law, including a local authority bylaw.
Mr. President of the Senate, it is quite obvious that this Bill is targeted to deal with MDC-T Mayors and Councillors. It is quite obvious that the Minister does not want to implement Chapter 14 which deals with Provincial and Metropolitan Councils. It is unprofessional and bad governance to have a Government Minister implementing laws which are only favourable to his own party.
Selective application of the law is unconstitutional and anyone practicing that is not fit to hold a public office. A motion was presented to this House regarding the aligning of Chapter 14, by Senator Siphiwe
Ncube. The response from ZANU PF Senators was very clear that the
Government has no money to implement Chapter 14 of the Constitution. Let me remind this House that any alignment of the Constitution carries costs with it.
Mr. President of the Senate, Bulawayo Metropolitan in terms of the Zimbabwe Constitution has what it takes for it to have a provincial council instituted.
Section 269 of the Zimbabwe Republic Constitution qualifies Bulawayo Metropolitan to have a provincial council to be instituted without any further delay. Mr. President, Bulawayo has a Mayor, who in terms of the Constitution is to be the Chairperson of the Bulawayo
Metropolitan Council. Bulawayo has all the members of the National
Assembly whose constituencies fall within the Bulawayo Metropolitan Province. Bulawayo has the women Members of the National Assembly who are elected in terms of Section 124(1) (b) of the Constitution.
Bulawayo has Senators elected in terms of the Zimbabwe Constitution.
Zimbabwe does not need many resources to institute Bulawayo
Metropolitan Council because the above office bearers are there and the infrastructure is there which can be used to facilitate the sitting of Bulawayo Metropolitan Council. If implementation of Chapter 14 is viewed as a weakness to ZANU PF strategies, obviously ZANU PF will take an insidious route to hide behind lack of resources by the Zimbabwe Government yet US$15 billion dollars goes missing from diamond mines. Zimbabwe’s annual budget is at US$4-5 billion. If that missing US$15 billion was put into circulation, we would not be talking about cash shortages, and witnessing long queues at the banks.
The Reserve Bank Governor will not have muted the idea of bond notes because US$15 billion can take care of Zimbabwe for 3 years. Zimbabwe has been robbed of its 3 years because someone, somewhere was sleeping on duty to guard Zimbabwe’s money. If one does not take his/her garden, that garden reverts into a jungle, and the law of the jungle is survival of the fittest.
Section 114 of the Constitution, paragraph 4 (a) up to (e).
The functions of the Attorney General are:-
- To act as the Principal Legal Adviser to the Government
- To represent the Government in civil and constitutional proceedings;
- To draft legislation on behalf of the Government;
- To promote, protect and uphold the rule of law and to defend the public interest; and
- To exercise any other functions that may be assigned to the
Attorney General by an Act of Parliament.
Mr. President, the painstakingly slow pace in aligning some of the
Acts to the Constitution is retrogressive to Zimbabwe. Let me take this august Senate back to 1974, and make comparison with the present
Government. When Mozambique closed its borders with Rhodesia, Rhodesia decided to open another export route to South Africa by building a railway line linking Rutenga and Beitbridge. Engineering experts by then had to put the timeline for construction of the 145km railway line to take 24 months to complete. The project was completed in 93 days ahead of the schedule.
It has taken Zimbabwe nearly 20 years to plan the construction of a
30km railway line linking Harare and its dormitory town of
Chitungwiza. It took Rhodesia in the Federation of Rhodesia and
Nyasaland just 4 years (from 1955-1959) to complete construction of
Lake Kariba, the world’s largest man-made water body. It has taken Zimbabwe several decades to construct some few dams in the country such as Tokwe-Mukorsi dam, Gwayi-Shangani dam and Manyuchi dam among others.
Madam President of the Senate, the painstakingly slow pace in aligning some of the Acts to the Constitution is retrogressive to Zimbabwe. Let me take this august House back to 1974 to make comparison with the present Government. When Mozambique closed its borders with Rhodesia. Rhodesia, decided to open another export route to South Africa by building a railway line linking Rutenga and Beitbridge. Engineering experts then had to put the timeline for construction of the 145 km railway line to take 20 months to complete but the project was completed in 93 days ahead of schedule.
It has taken Zimbabwe nearly 20 years to plan the construction of a 30 km railway line linking Harare and its dormitory town of Chitungwiza. It took Rhodesia in the Federation of Rhodesia and
Nyasaland just 4 years from 1955 to 1959 to complete construction of
Lake Kariba, the world’s largest man-made water body. It has taken Zimbabwe several decades to construct some few dams in the country such as Tokw- Mukorsi, Gwayi-Shangani dam and Manyuchi dam among others. This laissez faire approach by the Government of
Zimbabwe has contributed to the underdevelopment of the country. –
[HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]-
Mr. President Sir, Zimbabwe citizens have a right to take Parliament of Zimbabwe to the Constitutional Court under rule 21 (d) of the Constitutional Court Rules of 2016, cases that may be entertained directly without seeking leave from any court (d) deals with determination on whether Parliament or the President has failed to fulfill a constitutional obligation. Mr. President of the Senate, before
Zimbabwean citizens take this august House to invite the Attorney General to come and answer questions relating to his office in regards to the drafting of legislation, in particular Chapter 14 of the Constitution in order for this House to know and take action of the bottleneck, I may quote from a scholar Mr. Warren Wiersbe. He says that the world’s corruption is a result of its defiance.
In our Holy Bible, Proverbs 29 vs 4: a just king gives stability to his nation, but one who demands bribes destroys it. Ministers and top Government officials are equated as ki.ngs in the Bible. We have has cases where top Government officials are involved in corrupt activities. That according to the Holy Bible destroys a nation. Zimbabwe has been destroyed by such people. Finally, I would like to thank this august House for giving me an opportunity to air up fundamental implications without being disturbed. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]
HON. SEN NCUBE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
RESCUSCITATION OF THE ZAMBEZI WATER PROJECT
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the resuscitation of the Zambezi water project.
Question again proposed.
HON. B. SIBANDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
FOOD SECURITY AND NUTRITION CHALLENGES
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on malnutrition among urban and rural communities.
Question again proposed.
HON. D. T. KHUMALO: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 133RD ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-
PARLIAMENTARY UNION (IPU)
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Zimbabwe Delegation Report on the 133rd Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary
Union (IPU).
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
REHABILITATION OF WAR SHRINES AND RECOGNITION OF
DEPARTED WAR LIBERATORS
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion calling for the rehabilitation and maintenance of War Shrines.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MARAVA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE TO HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT AS CHAIRMAN OF AFRICAN UNION
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion to congratulate His Excellency, the President Cde. R.G. Mugabe and the Government of Zimbabwe on successfully leading the African Union (AU) and
Southern African Development Community (SADC) as Chairperson.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
MOTION
TRADITIONAL CHIEFS MANDATE
Twelfth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the role of traditional leaders.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 16th June, 2016.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON.
SEN. MOHADI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Nine Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 7th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to draw
the attention of the House to an error on the Order Paper where the date on today’s Order Paper is reflected as Tuesday, 6th June, 2017, instead of Wednesday, the 7th of June, 2017. Please make that correction.
INVITATION TO A CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP ON THE
UN SYSTEMS AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that all Hon. Members of Parliament are invited to a capacity building workshop, convened by Parliament in collaboration with the United Nations Agencies in Zimbabwe on the United Nations System and Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) at the Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge in Msasa on Monday, 12th June, 2017. Transport will be provided from Nelson Mandela Avenue entrance to Parliament at 0730 hours. I suppose those who have their own transport can drive
there.
PARLIAMENT OPEN DAY REMINDER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also wish to
remind the House that Parliament will be holding an Open Day from Thursday, 8th June, 2017 to Friday, 9th June, 2017. There will be exhibitions in the Car Park. Hon. Senators with vehicles parked in the Car Park are kindly requested to remove them to facilitate the pitching up of tents and erection of exhibition booths.
Hon. Members are requested to park their vehicles at their respective hotels and to utilise shuttle buses being offered by the hotels. Parking space will be available on the southern side of Nelson Mandela Avenue between Sam Nujoma Avenue and 3rd Street, along 3rd Street up to Simon Vengai Muzenda Street (formerly 4th Street).
Further, I wish to advise Hon. Senators that they will be provided with accommodation in Harare on Thursday, 8th June, 2017 and Friday, 9th June, 2017 in order to facilitate their participation in the Open Day activities.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Thank you Madam President for
affording me this opportunity to debate. I would like to support the motion that was brought to this Senate by Hon. Sen. Musaka on the low population within the country.
As a Chief, I think this motion is very important. If we look at the Bible, it says that we should multiply. Therefore, why should we go against what the Bible says? We should give birth as many times as we can as a fulfilment of what the Bible says.
We take note of diseases such as HIV and AIDS which have increased the death toll especially in Zimbabwe or in Africa as a region.
Diabetes and cancer have also increased the death toll in the country. When we look back, what used to increase the death toll was war but nowadays it is a different issue. It is now increased by the diseases that I have mentioned. I therefore agree to what the mover of this motion said that if someone is able to give birth to ten children, we should allow that so that the Government can have many people to employ. Each and every woman will be allowed to give birth to as many children as they can.
I support the motion that we should give birth to as many children as we can. However, there are boundaries that we should put such as putting up family units that are recognised by the Government. We realise even when God created a human being, the first thing that he started with was family; the family that was put in the Garden of Eden – Adam and Eve. That is where the family originated from. Therefore, I am emphasising that the issue of family unit be prioritised and people should give birth to as many children as they can. Proper programmes should also be put up so that they support the family unit. The family unit can contribute in building a proper community. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MURONZVI: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to add a few words. I have a terrible flue and I am also coughing. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka for bringing this motion. This is a very pertinent motion to us in this august House but unfortunately, we can no longer bear children. It is good for us here but we can no longer bear children. If you tell our children out there, no matter what language you use, they will not understand that it is important to bear a number of children. They will ask you questions like; what do you want me to give all these children because life is difficult.
It is good to have a number of children. In our family we are eight and it is a polygamous marriage. My father’s first wife had about six children. In our family we were eight; five girls and three boys. My father was the only one in his family. I like this motion because I see its importance, that it is good to have siblings. I will look at both sides of this issue. I am saying that those who want to bear more children should do so. I am saying that those who agree should do that. When we look at our children today, none of them is in agreement.
My father was the only one in his family. He married his first wife and had one son as well. He then married my mother and had three boys, bringing the number of boys to three and five girls. I am the last born. I buried my mother on Saturday. She was 124 years old. She was so proud and she used to tell the people each time they came to see her about her children. People were always asking how many children she had and she would get angry. I advise people to have more children. My mother always told people that my last born daughter is looking after me, so it is very important because the last born can be given certain gifts. I was given a gift that I was able to be a Member of this House and it enabled me to look after my mother, so she died a happy woman. So, Madam President, if you tell modern young men and women to bear more children, they will tell you that life has become so difficult, they cannot have a lot of children, but if this country had available jobs, we would bear more children. A person decides to bear children because the economy is also doing well. I want to thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the
Electoral Act to the Constitution.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAVENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees and School (SDCs) and
School Development Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Madam President
for according me this opportunity. I also want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo and the seconder that talks about funds that are controlled by School Development
Associations in schools. Madam President, it is prudent that everything should have checks and balances, especially funds that are coming from parents. They should be accounted for to the parents so that those who are paying can be satisfied that the funds contributed are being utilised in the proper way.
Madam President, I was thinking that the professionals in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should continue doing their professional work and also the parents who were given the responsibility to maintain the schools should maintain the schools and build their schools so that all the money is not taken to Government. Why is it that the Government wants to get monies that are paid by the parents and yet those funds that you had are there?
We realise that schools are being built in the proper way without any conflicts because the money is being used in the proper way. Now, when the money is being controlled at the centre, it is not different from centralising the money to the Government and yet decentralisation should move funds from the central Government to the people. Decentralisation is good because it enables people to account for the use of their funds, but once it goes to Government, it is a challenge because Government has its systems and procedures whereby, you have to wait for procedures, auditors coming and all, but at the SDCs, you can call parents and explain to the parents who will understand and push them the pay more money for the maintenance of the schools.
We realised, Mr. President, if you are to look at the past, the teachers were being remunerated by the parents. That is why our wage bill was not so huge because the parents used to pay 15% towards the salaries of the teachers and hence the salaries bill for the Government was low. We saw it going from the parents to the rural district councils and we realised that this was a good system. What is important is they need to know how the funds are being utilised. So the challenge now is for us to get that money from the parents and take it to the Government.
Although it may be good, I do not think the issue of transparency will be taken into consideration. The parents should explain to each other and appoint each other to committees on their own than for them to go to the headmaster to account for the funds. All you can do is watch monies being abused and you cannot do anything about it. The money that is with the teachers is being misused. What has caused the SDC funds to be taken to the central Government? Why is this the case? I think that the motion that was brought by Hon. Khumalo is a good motion and I support it because we have a clear understanding of it.
With those few words I want to thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I also stood to support the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo. When considering the issue of schools in this country, there are so many schools and they have increased since 1980. The commitment that came from the parents working together just after independence, they were war veterans who had come from war. They came into the communities and assisted the parents when the Government had said build schools and we will give you teachers as well as other resources to ensure that children have schools that are accessible to their communities. So, the parents expressed commitment to this and they worked hard to build schools in their areas.
The issue of them looking for funding to mould bricks, where they did not have money, they gave their labour, demonstrating their commitment and the value they placed on the education of their children. Now, the issue to say that if there are one or two SDC members who abused or misused money, then they bring in a policy to remove money from all SDCs; I think we are now hurting the parents who view the schools as theirs. So, people should not be punished in a blanket manner. If there are SDC members who misappropriated funds, they should be dealt with so that the money is brought back to the parents and they can demand accountability from the Heads of schools. If money is taken to where they do not have control, then it means we have taken away the will of people. So it should go to where they can institute control. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise
to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Sen. Khumalo. It is a pertinent issue indeed on our schools that are being run by the teachers and parents. I support what my colleagues have said, it is true that parents wherever they are - if they are helping, they want to be seen that they are assisting by their commitment. If there is a matter that had gone wrong, it should be addressed. Before they change the policy, those who are responsible for the education should go on public hearings to find out the concerns and views of parents. If money has been misused, abused or fraud has taken place, it is mostly those who are not educated and those without computers who are losing funds. Even those with computers; the computers are fed information by a person and they are also stealing, despite these machines.
Therefore, the parents should be given an opportunity if only the Ministry responsible could go on public hearings to solicit views from the parents. I think this is a topic that needs discussion. I am sure there are other SDCs and SDAs that have done well. Some have even bought vehicles. So, if we want to remove the funds, what have they done wrong; what is happening?
I have an example of the village heads and the council. The council says money from the village heads, the money collected for that ward is given to the councillor to perform development projects but those who give money are supposed to give the money to the village head. So, he is given funds according to the contributions. So some people drift backwards in paying such funds. My view and where I come from, the people in the areas are happy that SDCs and SDAs as well as teachers should work together for the schools to develop. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. I
also want to add a few words to the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo. I think there is an Hon. Senator who once mentioned that the remuneration of teachers was taken to the teachers then councils and so on. At one stage in our history, the churches also came in. The challenge in my opinion was that the Government acted cowardly in the 1980s-90s because when we joined teaching in the 1980s, we were deployed and went to United Teaching Service. We were not under
Public Service. I was at a Mission School. As time moved, the Government took over and we were all put in the Public Service. That is where the challenge started because everyone was now under the wage bill of the Government.
They removed the groundsmen and the caretakers and that is what brought in the Statutory Instrument that brought in SDCs and SDAs.
When this was done, there were no consultations with anyone. It was just an instruction, but now people want consultations to be done yet when they brought in the SDCs and SDAs there were no consultations. I think that is debatable.
The issue that happened is that the Government itself was afraid of hiking schools fees. The reasons are best known to them. They could hike schools fees to say every child should pay $20.00 with no levies. Now, after 30 years they have now gained confidence, if they tell people to pay so much, they will pay because this is what the parents have been doing. However, we should not forget that long back, there were Parents-Teachers Associations. They used to do whatever they used to do and paid 25c and 50 c at that time. After independence, the new ones had confidence and they charged a lot of levies about $300 to $500.
Some were known as former group A schools and paid quite a lot.
So, I think the Government acted cowardly, now they want to push this issue to others. They are the ones who said that a child cannot be chased away from school for not paying levy but for school fees only. In a school where I once worked, the Head was not supposed to chase away a child because of school fees - but if it was levy, a child could be chased away. That is why so many children, especially here in town where most people are in the informal sector, most children do not pay levies. They do not pay because they know that levy will not warrant the school authorities to chase a child away from school. I think it was a tactic or technique to encourage parents to pay levy first before school fees. So, if a child is chased away, they will tell you that we chased him away because he did not pay school fees and they would not mention levy. Even up to today that is what is happening. That is why I said that the Government acted cowardly to say pay so much money.
Now, that they have realised that people can pay those money, they are now saying that the levy should now come to the same basket as the fees. I said that nowadays, we are now crying that people should be consulted but we know historically, when this was done, people were not consulted. People were just pushed to say this is what will be happening. I am sure there are so many things that are happening and others talked about maladministration of funds in other schools. Some also said that the headmasters could also claim cell phone allowances and land line allowances from SSF and also from the SDC. So, he could claim fuel from the Government and from SDC. There was a challenge in that others were able to defraud the SDCs.
Now, coupled with the issues of maladministration and fraudulent activities, the Government has seen it fit to bring these funds into one basket. Even when auditing, these funds are audited differently. There was an auditor who came to audit the SSF funds and also the SDC funds. This enabled them to show the challenges at the SSF after the audit and also for the SDC. So the reports were two. It needed those with power and understanding to understand those audit reports. I was never a headmaster but what I know is that the audits were done twice a year. Even in schools, there were other unions of teachers who said that having two administrations in schools is a challenge, SDA and bursar; the bursar is appointed by the Government, et cetera.
I remember one year when my children were in school, I wanted to deposit money in the bank and the bank said no, take the money to the school. They said you have a bursar that is employed by the school to do that. So, they said to me if you just deposit and give them the receipt, why are you paying the bursar? He gave an example of a school whereby the bursar was not aware of whether a child had paid fees or not. The teacher is the one who knew whether the child had paid because they had a register and will be given a receipt number. The bursar himself could not get information on whether a child had paid the school or not. Many schools, if a child had paid, to prove that, children are either asked to bring receipts from home, which means the records of the bursar are not important.
Now you have all those records but all of them are not effective. It takes time for the bursar to produce proof that a child has paid. I think it needs the child to go back to the parents to get a receipt. If the Government must move to have one central administration, it would affect development. Secondly, you will need to use computers. We know that if a computer is programmed, it does not take time to retrieve information, if they are 30 Mashavakure’s, the initial will help you retrieve the name you want. The issue at hand here is that the Ministry should inform us where exactly they want to go in terms of direction. Do they want SDCs and SDAs to work as they were? They should be transparent because right now they are hiding behind a finger; they need to tell us what their intention is?
Do they think the SDA should lose most of its power in terms of funding or we go back to the PTAs that were there long back that they would group and the Government would call the shot on what needed to be done or what is it they want to do. To say the SDCs should be given their powers, the truth is power corrupts and they were enjoying the powers. Before, probably these issues were not being complained about, but now, the Ministry who is the father wants his powers and the children do not want to surrender that power. I think that is where the issue is. I want to thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity that you have given me. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for this very important motion. Mr. President, the issue of schools is an issue that was encouraging the communities in the rural areas because they consider their schools as theirs; that is an important issue. It was mentioned here by one speaker that people would give their labour by molding bricks with the Government assisting, but they reflected on the effort and commitment to build schools. That assisted us a lot because that was participation of the parents in building their schools.
Mr. President, I think centralising the administration of the schools to go to the school service fund is going to be difficult for them because they are so many schools, there is going to be quite a lot of conflict. I want to make reference of what the mover has said that if they are any issues that were not properly handled, there was need to come up with a
Committee to see how things needed to be done; that will be good for us.
There is no problem without a solution, even the School Development Committees and Associations have their challenges as well but the challenges are not solved by removing those Committees and starting on a virtually new system. As the previous speaker has said, it is regressive. What we encourage is a participatory approach in building schools for you to be there in school development communities. Even children who could pay that money, the Committees encouraged each other and would discuss these issues considering the challenges of the country.
They know the challenges that are at the school better than a distant manager that is not at the school. They are close to the school and they understand and share the challenges of that school. Another issue that we realise is that the School Development Committees have been encouraging the growth and the building of these schools. So, now, if they are centralised in these service Committees, it means other schools will not develop at the same rate because the Government already has challenges. We realise that there are a lot of challenges within Government itself.
If we are to look at it, some Government schools are lagging behind. So now to add more responsibilities on the responsibilities that they have, it means that it will derail on the schools they were building. So, it is not only regressive but we will come to a halt. Participation is important and that is why in our Committees, especially the Gender Committee, we advocate for the participation of women in all sectors, meaning that we are encouraging and uplifting women in those areas. The issue of participation is growth on its own. The issue to say leave it for us and we will do it ourselves has detrimental effects. I am talking about gender because I understand it. Women are used to being onlookers while the men do everything and now we are saying women should also participate but it is a slow process because it is something that has been in existence and it will take long because of these patriarch societies.
So Mr. President, what we encourage is that we need to work together as has been said here by the mover of the motion that if only this could be halted for now so that we continue working as we have been doing as SDCs and SDAs. I do not want to say much because other things have already been said by my colleagues. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Sen. Khumalo and I would want to add a few words to say that, this motion is good for us as leaders of
Zimbabwe. When we look at the schools, we realise that the School Development Committees have been working hard to uplift the standard of education and as well as maintenance of the schools. If we look at it today, most schools have buses that they use as transport to different areas like coming here to Parliament and they are able to go on tours when they visit places like Kariba and other tourist resort areas and that has assisted most schools. We realise that schools are actually competing when it comes to the buying of buses and the parents who are working with the schools, as what has been said before, have made a commitment because they have realised that these things are theirs for them to uplift the standards of their children. We can give an example of many schools – in terms of infrastructure, they have built a lot. We realise that in other schools where we went to, SDCs in a school where there are disabled persons, it does not take time for them to sit down and discuss and ensure that the school is user friendly even to those who are disabled. So, I think that if the powers of the SDCs are left intact, our schools will develop. Even in our previous schools where we did our education, we go there to support because we know that the schools are in the hands of the communities. I do not know if there are any of us who are not part of the old students’ associations to help in the schools that they went to. I encourage them to go back and assist.
We realise if the SDCs are done away with and the money is taken to Government – you know the process of getting money from the Government, it will take long for the schools to get those funds. It is different from the fact that the parents and the headmaster can sit down when there is a challenge and address it promptly. So, I would want to support that Government should maintain the status quo. If they want to come up with a policy or legislation, they can come up with it to ensure that there is no maladministration and fraudulent activities and probably give regulatory guidelines for the chairpersons of the SDCs. I think that this is good for the children and the parents. The dura-walls and the fences that are built around schools – in rural areas, they have something like a neighbourhood watch and they go on duty and if they see a person breaking in, they encourage one another to look after the place and they protect their community. They are all happy and they want their areas to develop. So, I think that if these monies are taken to Government, yes it is good but it will also present challenges in that what is happening at the school on a daily basis can be affected. The parents were running the schools well in terms of maintenance and building the schools. If you go around and look at most schools, the children have furniture and parents are actually engaging teachers who are taking children for computers. The Government can say we are not enrolling more teachers because we do not have money but the parents source for these teachers. So, they have been doing well. With these few words Mr. President, I want to say that parents should maintain their power in these schools and also the administration of their levies. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: I have an announcement to make. The owner of vehicle Registration number ADL 6603 parked along Nelson Mandela Street near ZimNat building is blocking other vehicles. Please have it removed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to support this report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals particularising only on SDG No. 3, which was reported by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane in this august House. Mr. President, when we deal with SDGs, you will find that they are similar in many ways, especially when we are looking at the SDG on poverty eradication.
First and foremost, we will have to see to it that poverty has been reduced because as long as we have poverty, you will find that the health is also affected. Also, if we look at the SDG on education, it has the same purpose because if you look at the schools that we have, especially in the resettlement areas, they are very far apart from each other and as a result of that, children have to walk long distances to school. By doing so, their health is affected as they will be walking long distances. Mr.
President, when we talked about ‘health for all’ including the aged, we meant to say that the health facilities should be nearer to the people.
People must not walk long distances. This is also found in the resettlement areas whereby people have to walk more than 20km to the nearest clinic. As a result, parents or communities suffer. They cannot have good health at all.
As I said earlier on, if we look at the poverty eradication SDG, you will find that it emphasises that food with nutrition value should be available because we cannot only talk about food without the addition of nutrition value. You will find that at the end of the day, especially the school going age, they might have kwashiorkor because of lack of nutrition. The old age might also have poor health because they are not having sufficient food with the right nutrition value. When we look at good health for all, you will find that we will be talking about the reduction of the epidemic on HIV/AIDS in all the people. There should be some means and aims to look at these issues so that everybody has the right to live, not only life but good health as well. If we look at these, there should be reduction on child mortality. There should be awareness and creation of promotional education material for the people so that people know about health issues and we reduce child mortality.
Mr. President, I could add and add because when we talk about health issues, it is a very touching issue. We have to look at all the issues concerning the health of the people. I would like to thank this Committee; I am not a member of the Committee but it affects me and the other people. Everybody needs to be healthy. Mr. President, with these few words, I would like to thank the mover of this report and the Committee as well. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 7th June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on the motion of statelessness. Zimbabwe is a member of the SADC Community that is encouraging countries to ensure that there are no people who are stateless within their countries. I am sure we are aware that our country from 1998 to 1999, just before the elections, many people whose origins were from Malawi and Zambia became stateless and declared non-Zimbabweans. Most of those people were born in Zimbabwe. Some of them did not know they are Zambians or Malawians because they did not have relatives there. These people have been in trouble because they did not know what to do after being born in Zimbabwe. Their grandfathers are the ones that came here and they have no relationship with what is said to be their countries of origins.
I am happy that now maybe SADC itself is discussing about the issue of statelessness. These people can easily gain back their statuses of being Zimbabweans because they are neither Malawians nor Zambians; they are Zimbabweans. I wish there could be a way of ensuring that these people get back their statuses. It is becoming another process to go back. Yes, the Government has agreed now that they can become Zimbabweans again but the process that they are going through is very difficult. I think Government should devise a system to make those people who have lost their statuses easily get it back. Can the processes be simplified for these people? Within the SADC community, they have been attending meetings and it has been said that Parliaments should be the ones that should come up with ways of making people not to be stateless. I wish we would really look into it and ensure that most of these people who are not Zimbabwean, Malawian or Zambian get back their status. Those children are Zimbabweans and are going to grow up poor.
In the UN, particularly the SDGs, it should state the point of removing remove poverty in our countries but if we are having those Zimbabweans without status, their children are not able to write examinations and are going to have uneducated families. We need to ensure that Zimbabwe continues with its high status in the education of its citizens. Can we have these citizens who are now stateless to have their status? Remember, any woman who has a child without status, that child becomes stateless because you need to have a birth certificate that says you are a Zimbabwean.
I am asking this House to assist in ensuring that all the
Zimbabwean children, those born outside and within Zimbabwe all have birth certificates and IDs so that they can be fully accepted. They can also visit the different areas they would want to visit. Remember that our country Zimbabwe is very much interested in sports. We have some of our children who are very good sportsmen but cannot go out because their parents have been denied the status of being Zimbabweans while they are truly Zimbabweans. The Government has agreed that they are now Zimbabweans but because it is difficult to get the status, I am asking this Parliament to help the Ministry of Social Welfare to ensure that the processing of these people’s papers is made easier and they become wholly Zimbabweans who can get their education, get into the sporting sector and can travel anywhere else. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Mr. President, I want to say a few words concerning the issue of statelessness that was raised in this House. Firstly Mr. President, I want to start by explaining how a person gets to be stateless. I see there are different understandings of the term
‘statelessness’. Wherever a person is born, that is his nation. In terms of international law, if you are born on a plane on your way to United States of America, you are deemed to be Zimbabwean. So, if that is the case, how can someone be said to be stateless?
I heard others saying there are people who came here from other countries without their citizenship. Before we get there Mr. President, I want to say that a person cannot say that he stays in Chief Sithole’s area and then he can also be said to stay in the country belonging to Chief Chiduku. If you see a person doing that then there is a challenge. That is where statelessness comes in. If there is a conflict between Chief
Chiduku and Chief Sithole, where will this person’s allegiance lie? That is when you then say I cannot leave the Sitholes to be defeated or killed by the Chidukus and you give information. You are then arrested and that is when the Government says go to wherever you want to go. If you look at the Constitution Section 39, that is where you find that the Government can revoke your citizenship because they see that you are not a straightforward person and you do not have anywhere to stay. It then goes back to say what should be done.
It takes us back to the issue that we want a person to belong to one country, not to have dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is what causes statelessness. Mr. President, I want us to go back to the issue that for us not to have such a situation, the issue of dual citizenship is what has caused this challenge. What I know is that in the rural areas during the outreach programmes on the writing of the Constitution, people said that they want a person to be a citizen of one country. So, I do not know where dual citizenship came from and that is where the challenge is.
For that reason, I would want us to go back to the drawing board and say that if a person is Zimbabwean, he should be a citizen of Zimbabwe if that person was born in Zimbabwe and it does not matter where the parents come from. If they were born in Zimbabwe they are Zimbabweans, not for a person to choose to say my parents are from
Australia and so, I want to have Australian citizenship; I was born in
Zimbabwe and I am now a citizen of Zimbabwe. If you go and work in Britain and spend five years without committing any crime, you can apply for citizenship. That is what causes challenges. If you are engaging in criminal activities here and there, you end up not having any citizenship. So, I was thinking that we should focus on this issue that we did not look into carefully, that a person should be a citizen of one nation not dual citizenship.
Mr. President, let me go back to the issue that was mentioned in this House that there are people who came from other countries where they were chased away and came to find somewhere to stay. From what I know, the people from Malawi and Zambia for example, came in the 1920s and 1930s and worked at the railways. They lived there and most of them died here. Their children are here and were given identity documents but the challenge that occurred was that others maintained the links with their countries without knowing that tomorrow it would be a challenge and they consider themselves Malawians. They took national identity cards that were written non-citizen. Once one’s identity card says non-citizen, it does not mean you cannot stay in that nation. You can stay there. In Zimbabwe, you can stay but you do not have voting rights or the right to contest in an election but no one is questioned why they are still in Zimbabwe.
Now, the current laws say that if you decide that you want to be a Zimbabwean, you have to go to the immigration office and submit your forms – within a short time, you are advised that you are now a citizen and are eligible to vote. No-one is expelled from this nation but I know that there are people who when things were difficult, went and threw their passports at the Registrar General’s office. Those who were in Parliament in 2003-2005, you will remember that Mr. Mudede came here with a box of passports and said that people had surrendered their passports and said they no longer wanted to be called Zimbabweans. If they travelled with the Zimbabwean passport, the British would deport them. So, they went back to their countries to get their passports. When they got to their countries, they faced challenges and came back and said ‘my mother is from Hwedza and my father if from Malawi. I was born in such an area and I am a Zimbabwean’. That is where we find challenges in Zimbabwe. People are in problems. As far as I know, there is no situation whereby a person does not have anywhere to stay.
Let me conclude by saying that to end statelessness is to say if a person is Zimbabwean, they should maintain their citizenship as Zimbabwean; no matter what criminal activities they may do and whatever, that person is Zimbabwean and cannot be sent anywhere. But if a person has other citizenship, that is where you find a person is chased away from that country and sent back to his country. When you get to Zimbabwe, people want to know where you used to stay and they will tell you that because of your criminal behaviour, we do not want you in Zimbabwe. Let us go back to the situation whereby a person only has one citizenship. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE
(HON. SEN. J. MACHAYA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe. Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to support the pertinent report that was presented to this Senate by Hon. Sen. Timveos a few days ago. For people to be healthy, they do not need all those diseases. They said that they went around with the Thematic
Committee and went to different institutions. I want to thank them.
They mentioned that they came across many challenges but I have realised that I need to say one or two things. The institutions that they visited are our family as well. HIV and AIDS that they talked about and consulted the children soliciting their views on challenges and realizing that the situation in institutions was not good; I do not know where we are going with this issue. When we are talking about this issue of giving birth to a number of children; I am sure others will be borne whilst others are dying. The issue of having more children will assist but what we are saying is that the students no longer have moral values and they no longer value themselves. They have no respect of their lecturers. They have so many rights and think they have become adults. They build their homes there.
This uncontrollable nature of students is because we are no longer considering our cultural norms and values. Long ago, it was taboo for a girl and boy child to play together. Our children are now talking about ‘blessers’ who are the men who give them what they want. These children say they do not want to use condoms. I think the Government did a good thing to avail condoms. Condoms did not only start when HIV and AIDS came in but they started long back when they were used to prevent STIs and for family planning purposes. Most people survived because of the condoms. Today the condoms are still there but our children are saying they do not want to use them. They say they cannot eat a wrapped sweet. If the sweet is wrapped, they cannot enjoy it.
They feel that if they use condoms, they will not enjoy the intimacy.
I realised that to end this, we need our cultural norms and values. Traditional leaders here present can confirm that there are certain things that we used to do when a child was born. If it is a boy child, you would do something to ensure that the child does not become sexually active and concentrate on women. Even when the child became mature, he would not be interested in women.
I am sure that the women here know what I am talking about. If it is a girl child, there were certain things that you needed to do to ensure that that child does not have the passion for men. The Chiefs know that they used to sit with the boys at night around a fire and advise the young boys. My request to the traditional leaders is that we go back to our traditional norms and cultural values and encourage the men in your areas to interrogate such issues. We are told that they take drugs and they do not care what they are doing. So, what we are saying is they should stop taking drugs. That is why I am saying that the children tell you that they do not care about HIV/AIDS because ARVs are there and they can prolong life. So, all I want to say is that we need to go back to our cultural norms and values. We have aunties and also elderly men.
Long ago, the diseases were there, but it was not as bad as it is today. I heard one Hon. Member saying that her mother was 122 years old. It is not an age that is easy for us to attain. We cannot attain such an age because we have lost our morals and also us, as the mothers, we do not have time for our children. As mothers, we are all going different directions. We have no time with our children. You see a child coming with a box of groceries and you actually thank the child, but you do not actually know where the groceries came from. That child will continue being immoral because they know you are appreciating the groceries. So, we need to teach our children. I therefore thought I would support Hon. Timveos with the report that she gave.
Those with ears have heard - if we continue to teach them, they will also understand. Even the teachers right now are getting into relationships with our children. If your child is caught with a teacher how would you feel? Hence, we need to educate our teachers that you cannot have sexual relationships with school children. In most schools there are so many problems that have become popular. Children now have become sexually active and it has become a menace in our nation.
Hon. Timveos, we thank you for the motion. We will also talk to our children and those with ears will understand. It is not about children not having money, you need to value yourselves. When children go to school they have a lot of money, but because of the rise in such cases, children are engaging in this not for money, but because they do not just listen. I want to thank you, Mr. President, for this opportunity. I have children and I have grandchildren and my wish is that they grow up with morals as well. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I stood up to say one or two words and also to thank the Thematic Committee on HIV/AIDS that went on tours to institutions of higher learning to witness what is happening in our institutions. Surely if we were to sit in this House and not going out on tours to see what is happening, especially the living conditions and the activities our children are engaging in at higher institutions, we would not be leaders.
If you hear a girl child telling you that ‘I cannot have a sweet that is wrapped’, it means that child has gone astray and cannot be controlled. So, what I was thinking is that other issues that were mentioned on this issue - it is just that our Ministers are always tied up with other official business, but what I do not know whether the deputies are equally tied up. We would want them to come here and hear us debate and probably they would hear what we are saying in this House.
What they only get is the Hansard. The Hansard does not get to other areas. In other areas you cannot take that Hansard because it is only in English, it is not in vernacular. So, even if you take it to the rural areas, others are not as educated and cannot read the Hansard in English, but if it was in vernacular, we would then say that our message is being taken to different areas and communities and also be assured that the students are hearing about it and they would also know that whatever they told us is being discussed in Parliament. I am sure they would change their behaviour.
My request is that the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education,
Science and Technology Development and the Ministry of Health and Child Care should assist us because it is an issue that will further handicap us in the future, because if children are now refusing to use some of the preventive measures to avoid HIV infections, it is a challenge. It will cost us a lot as a Government in the near future because children will now be infected with HIV/Aids and others will get married being infected by the disease already. So, we realise that when they get sick, the Government will need funds to get medication or ARVs to ensure that they prolong the lives of these students. So, I think these two Ministries should come and address this issue and find ways of talking to the children.
I agree with Hon. Goto that we understand what you are saying. We are reading it in the papers in the areas where we are. A child who is 10 years old - you hear of teachers raping girl children. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should talk to their teachers and ensure that they do not have relationships with minors. When the teacher went and took an oath to be a teacher, these things were not there, but now the teachers are doing it. The teachers are there to assist the girl children rather than rape them. That is why I was requesting that the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education be here. They can assist us by talking to the teachers. The teachers, as well, can raise awareness, not only in schools, but also in the communities.
In the community it is difficult. There are other people who are given a hearing and others who are not. In rural areas, people will listen to teachers and drivers. If a teacher says anything, they will listen. If a nurse says something, they understand. Our request is that those Ministries assist us. I do not have a lot of words to say. I might spoil the motion that was well debated by all those who debated on it. I want to thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE
(HON. SEN. MACHAYA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD MARRIAGE
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on
Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GOTO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MACHAYA) the Senate
adjourned at Eleven Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 7th June, 2017
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’ clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE
SENATE
ERROR ON THE ORDER PAPER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to draw
the attention of the House to an error on the Order Paper where the date on today’s Order Paper is reflected as Tuesday, 6th June, 2017, instead of Wednesday, the 7th of June, 2017. Please make that correction.
INVITATION TO A CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP ON THE
UN SYSTEMS AND SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I have to inform
the House that all Hon. Members of Parliament are invited to a capacity building workshop, convened by Parliament in collaboration with the United Nations Agencies in Zimbabwe on the United Nations System and Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) at the Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge in Msasa on Monday, 12th June, 2017. Transport will be provided from Nelson Mandela Avenue entrance to Parliament at 0730 hours. I suppose those who have their own transport can drive
there.
PARLIAMENT OPEN DAY REMINDER
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I also wish to
remind the House that Parliament will be holding an Open Day from Thursday, 8th June, 2017 to Friday, 9th June, 2017. There will be exhibitions in the Car Park. Hon. Senators with vehicles parked in the Car Park are kindly requested to remove them to facilitate the pitching up of tents and erection of exhibition booths.
Hon. Members are requested to park their vehicles at their respective hotels and to utilise shuttle buses being offered by the hotels. Parking space will be available on the southern side of Nelson Mandela Avenue between Sam Nujoma Avenue and 3rd Street, along 3rd Street up to Simon Vengai Muzenda Street (formerly 4th Street).
Further, I wish to advise Hon. Senators that they will be provided with accommodation in Harare on Thursday, 8th June, 2017 and Friday, 9th June, 2017 in order to facilitate their participation in the Open Day activities.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that Order of the Day, Number 1 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. NYAMBUYA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
PRESIDENT
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
MEASURES TO CURB VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY POLITICAL
PARTIES
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on violence that had become a socio-political way of life among the people of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF POPULATION GROWTH IN ZIMBABWE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Zimbabwe’s low population.
Question again proposed.
+HON. SEN. CHIEF GAMPU: Thank you Madam President for
affording me this opportunity to debate. I would like to support the motion that was brought to this Senate by Hon. Sen. Musaka on the low population within the country.
As a Chief, I think this motion is very important. If we look at the Bible, it says that we should multiply. Therefore, why should we go against what the Bible says? We should give birth as many times as we can as a fulfilment of what the Bible says.
We take note of diseases such as HIV and AIDS which have increased the death toll especially in Zimbabwe or in Africa as a region.
Diabetes and cancer have also increased the death toll in the country. When we look back, what used to increase the death toll was war but nowadays it is a different issue. It is now increased by the diseases that I have mentioned. I therefore agree to what the mover of this motion said that if someone is able to give birth to ten children, we should allow that so that the Government can have many people to employ. Each and every woman will be allowed to give birth to as many children as they can.
I support the motion that we should give birth to as many children as we can. However, there are boundaries that we should put such as putting up family units that are recognised by the Government. We realise even when God created a human being, the first thing that he started with was family; the family that was put in the Garden of Eden – Adam and Eve. That is where the family originated from. Therefore, I am emphasising that the issue of family unit be prioritised and people should give birth to as many children as they can. Proper programmes should also be put up so that they support the family unit. The family unit can contribute in building a proper community. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MURONZVI: Thank you Madam President. I
would like to add a few words. I have a terrible flue and I am also coughing. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Musaka for bringing this motion. This is a very pertinent motion to us in this august House but unfortunately, we can no longer bear children. It is good for us here but we can no longer bear children. If you tell our children out there, no matter what language you use, they will not understand that it is important to bear a number of children. They will ask you questions like; what do you want me to give all these children because life is difficult.
It is good to have a number of children. In our family we are eight and it is a polygamous marriage. My father’s first wife had about six children. In our family we were eight; five girls and three boys. My father was the only one in his family. I like this motion because I see its importance, that it is good to have siblings. I will look at both sides of this issue. I am saying that those who want to bear more children should do so. I am saying that those who agree should do that. When we look at our children today, none of them is in agreement.
My father was the only one in his family. He married his first wife and had one son as well. He then married my mother and had three boys, bringing the number of boys to three and five girls. I am the last born. I buried my mother on Saturday. She was 124 years old. She was so proud and she used to tell the people each time they came to see her about her children. People were always asking how many children she had and she would get angry. I advise people to have more children. My mother always told people that my last born daughter is looking after me, so it is very important because the last born can be given certain gifts. I was given a gift that I was able to be a Member of this House and it enabled me to look after my mother, so she died a happy woman. So, Madam President, if you tell modern young men and women to bear more children, they will tell you that life has become so difficult, they cannot have a lot of children, but if this country had available jobs, we would bear more children. A person decides to bear children because the economy is also doing well. I want to thank you Madam President.
HON. SEN. MUSAKA: Madam President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MUSARURWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS BY
ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION (ZEC)
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on alignment of the
Electoral Act to the Constitution.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Madam President, I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TAVENGWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
ALIGNMENT OF THE EDUCATION ACT TO THE CONSTITUTION
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on funds controlled by School Development Committees and School (SDCs) and
School Development Associations (SDAs).
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAKWARIMBA: Thank you Madam President
for according me this opportunity. I also want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo and the seconder that talks about funds that are controlled by School Development
Associations in schools. Madam President, it is prudent that everything should have checks and balances, especially funds that are coming from parents. They should be accounted for to the parents so that those who are paying can be satisfied that the funds contributed are being utilised in the proper way.
Madam President, I was thinking that the professionals in the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should continue doing their professional work and also the parents who were given the responsibility to maintain the schools should maintain the schools and build their schools so that all the money is not taken to Government. Why is it that the Government wants to get monies that are paid by the parents and yet those funds that you had are there?
We realise that schools are being built in the proper way without any conflicts because the money is being used in the proper way. Now, when the money is being controlled at the centre, it is not different from centralising the money to the Government and yet decentralisation should move funds from the central Government to the people. Decentralisation is good because it enables people to account for the use of their funds, but once it goes to Government, it is a challenge because Government has its systems and procedures whereby, you have to wait for procedures, auditors coming and all, but at the SDCs, you can call parents and explain to the parents who will understand and push them the pay more money for the maintenance of the schools.
We realised, Mr. President, if you are to look at the past, the teachers were being remunerated by the parents. That is why our wage bill was not so huge because the parents used to pay 15% towards the salaries of the teachers and hence the salaries bill for the Government was low. We saw it going from the parents to the rural district councils and we realised that this was a good system. What is important is they need to know how the funds are being utilised. So the challenge now is for us to get that money from the parents and take it to the Government.
Although it may be good, I do not think the issue of transparency will be taken into consideration. The parents should explain to each other and appoint each other to committees on their own than for them to go to the headmaster to account for the funds. All you can do is watch monies being abused and you cannot do anything about it. The money that is with the teachers is being misused. What has caused the SDC funds to be taken to the central Government? Why is this the case? I think that the motion that was brought by Hon. Khumalo is a good motion and I support it because we have a clear understanding of it.
With those few words I want to thank you Madam President.
*HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Mr. President. I also stood to support the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo. When considering the issue of schools in this country, there are so many schools and they have increased since 1980. The commitment that came from the parents working together just after independence, they were war veterans who had come from war. They came into the communities and assisted the parents when the Government had said build schools and we will give you teachers as well as other resources to ensure that children have schools that are accessible to their communities. So, the parents expressed commitment to this and they worked hard to build schools in their areas.
The issue of them looking for funding to mould bricks, where they did not have money, they gave their labour, demonstrating their commitment and the value they placed on the education of their children. Now, the issue to say that if there are one or two SDC members who abused or misused money, then they bring in a policy to remove money from all SDCs; I think we are now hurting the parents who view the schools as theirs. So, people should not be punished in a blanket manner. If there are SDC members who misappropriated funds, they should be dealt with so that the money is brought back to the parents and they can demand accountability from the Heads of schools. If money is taken to where they do not have control, then it means we have taken away the will of people. So it should go to where they can institute control. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President. I rise
to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Sen. Khumalo. It is a pertinent issue indeed on our schools that are being run by the teachers and parents. I support what my colleagues have said, it is true that parents wherever they are - if they are helping, they want to be seen that they are assisting by their commitment. If there is a matter that had gone wrong, it should be addressed. Before they change the policy, those who are responsible for the education should go on public hearings to find out the concerns and views of parents. If money has been misused, abused or fraud has taken place, it is mostly those who are not educated and those without computers who are losing funds. Even those with computers; the computers are fed information by a person and they are also stealing, despite these machines.
Therefore, the parents should be given an opportunity if only the Ministry responsible could go on public hearings to solicit views from the parents. I think this is a topic that needs discussion. I am sure there are other SDCs and SDAs that have done well. Some have even bought vehicles. So, if we want to remove the funds, what have they done wrong; what is happening?
I have an example of the village heads and the council. The council says money from the village heads, the money collected for that ward is given to the councillor to perform development projects but those who give money are supposed to give the money to the village head. So, he is given funds according to the contributions. So some people drift backwards in paying such funds. My view and where I come from, the people in the areas are happy that SDCs and SDAs as well as teachers should work together for the schools to develop. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President. I
also want to add a few words to the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Khumalo. I think there is an Hon. Senator who once mentioned that the remuneration of teachers was taken to the teachers then councils and so on. At one stage in our history, the churches also came in. The challenge in my opinion was that the Government acted cowardly in the 1980s-90s because when we joined teaching in the 1980s, we were deployed and went to United Teaching Service. We were not under
Public Service. I was at a Mission School. As time moved, the Government took over and we were all put in the Public Service. That is where the challenge started because everyone was now under the wage bill of the Government.
They removed the groundsmen and the caretakers and that is what brought in the Statutory Instrument that brought in SDCs and SDAs.
When this was done, there were no consultations with anyone. It was just an instruction, but now people want consultations to be done yet when they brought in the SDCs and SDAs there were no consultations. I think that is debatable.
The issue that happened is that the Government itself was afraid of hiking schools fees. The reasons are best known to them. They could hike schools fees to say every child should pay $20.00 with no levies. Now, after 30 years they have now gained confidence, if they tell people to pay so much, they will pay because this is what the parents have been doing. However, we should not forget that long back, there were Parents-Teachers Associations. They used to do whatever they used to do and paid 25c and 50 c at that time. After independence, the new ones had confidence and they charged a lot of levies about $300 to $500.
Some were known as former group A schools and paid quite a lot.
So, I think the Government acted cowardly, now they want to push this issue to others. They are the ones who said that a child cannot be chased away from school for not paying levy but for school fees only. In a school where I once worked, the Head was not supposed to chase away a child because of school fees - but if it was levy, a child could be chased away. That is why so many children, especially here in town where most people are in the informal sector, most children do not pay levies. They do not pay because they know that levy will not warrant the school authorities to chase a child away from school. I think it was a tactic or technique to encourage parents to pay levy first before school fees. So, if a child is chased away, they will tell you that we chased him away because he did not pay school fees and they would not mention levy. Even up to today that is what is happening. That is why I said that the Government acted cowardly to say pay so much money.
Now, that they have realised that people can pay those money, they are now saying that the levy should now come to the same basket as the fees. I said that nowadays, we are now crying that people should be consulted but we know historically, when this was done, people were not consulted. People were just pushed to say this is what will be happening. I am sure there are so many things that are happening and others talked about maladministration of funds in other schools. Some also said that the headmasters could also claim cell phone allowances and land line allowances from SSF and also from the SDC. So, he could claim fuel from the Government and from SDC. There was a challenge in that others were able to defraud the SDCs.
Now, coupled with the issues of maladministration and fraudulent activities, the Government has seen it fit to bring these funds into one basket. Even when auditing, these funds are audited differently. There was an auditor who came to audit the SSF funds and also the SDC funds. This enabled them to show the challenges at the SSF after the audit and also for the SDC. So the reports were two. It needed those with power and understanding to understand those audit reports. I was never a headmaster but what I know is that the audits were done twice a year. Even in schools, there were other unions of teachers who said that having two administrations in schools is a challenge, SDA and bursar; the bursar is appointed by the Government, et cetera.
I remember one year when my children were in school, I wanted to deposit money in the bank and the bank said no, take the money to the school. They said you have a bursar that is employed by the school to do that. So, they said to me if you just deposit and give them the receipt, why are you paying the bursar? He gave an example of a school whereby the bursar was not aware of whether a child had paid fees or not. The teacher is the one who knew whether the child had paid because they had a register and will be given a receipt number. The bursar himself could not get information on whether a child had paid the school or not. Many schools, if a child had paid, to prove that, children are either asked to bring receipts from home, which means the records of the bursar are not important.
Now you have all those records but all of them are not effective. It takes time for the bursar to produce proof that a child has paid. I think it needs the child to go back to the parents to get a receipt. If the Government must move to have one central administration, it would affect development. Secondly, you will need to use computers. We know that if a computer is programmed, it does not take time to retrieve information, if they are 30 Mashavakure’s, the initial will help you retrieve the name you want. The issue at hand here is that the Ministry should inform us where exactly they want to go in terms of direction. Do they want SDCs and SDAs to work as they were? They should be transparent because right now they are hiding behind a finger; they need to tell us what their intention is?
Do they think the SDA should lose most of its power in terms of funding or we go back to the PTAs that were there long back that they would group and the Government would call the shot on what needed to be done or what is it they want to do. To say the SDCs should be given their powers, the truth is power corrupts and they were enjoying the powers. Before, probably these issues were not being complained about, but now, the Ministry who is the father wants his powers and the children do not want to surrender that power. I think that is where the issue is. I want to thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity that you have given me. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Khumalo for this very important motion. Mr. President, the issue of schools is an issue that was encouraging the communities in the rural areas because they consider their schools as theirs; that is an important issue. It was mentioned here by one speaker that people would give their labour by molding bricks with the Government assisting, but they reflected on the effort and commitment to build schools. That assisted us a lot because that was participation of the parents in building their schools.
Mr. President, I think centralising the administration of the schools to go to the school service fund is going to be difficult for them because they are so many schools, there is going to be quite a lot of conflict. I want to make reference of what the mover has said that if they are any issues that were not properly handled, there was need to come up with a
Committee to see how things needed to be done; that will be good for us.
There is no problem without a solution, even the School Development Committees and Associations have their challenges as well but the challenges are not solved by removing those Committees and starting on a virtually new system. As the previous speaker has said, it is regressive. What we encourage is a participatory approach in building schools for you to be there in school development communities. Even children who could pay that money, the Committees encouraged each other and would discuss these issues considering the challenges of the country.
They know the challenges that are at the school better than a distant manager that is not at the school. They are close to the school and they understand and share the challenges of that school. Another issue that we realise is that the School Development Committees have been encouraging the growth and the building of these schools. So, now, if they are centralised in these service Committees, it means other schools will not develop at the same rate because the Government already has challenges. We realise that there are a lot of challenges within Government itself.
If we are to look at it, some Government schools are lagging behind. So now to add more responsibilities on the responsibilities that they have, it means that it will derail on the schools they were building. So, it is not only regressive but we will come to a halt. Participation is important and that is why in our Committees, especially the Gender Committee, we advocate for the participation of women in all sectors, meaning that we are encouraging and uplifting women in those areas. The issue of participation is growth on its own. The issue to say leave it for us and we will do it ourselves has detrimental effects. I am talking about gender because I understand it. Women are used to being onlookers while the men do everything and now we are saying women should also participate but it is a slow process because it is something that has been in existence and it will take long because of these patriarch societies.
So Mr. President, what we encourage is that we need to work together as has been said here by the mover of the motion that if only this could be halted for now so that we continue working as we have been doing as SDCs and SDAs. I do not want to say much because other things have already been said by my colleagues. I thank you Mr.
President.
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Mr. President. I also want to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Sen. Khumalo and I would want to add a few words to say that, this motion is good for us as leaders of
Zimbabwe. When we look at the schools, we realise that the School Development Committees have been working hard to uplift the standard of education and as well as maintenance of the schools. If we look at it today, most schools have buses that they use as transport to different areas like coming here to Parliament and they are able to go on tours when they visit places like Kariba and other tourist resort areas and that has assisted most schools. We realise that schools are actually competing when it comes to the buying of buses and the parents who are working with the schools, as what has been said before, have made a commitment because they have realised that these things are theirs for them to uplift the standards of their children. We can give an example of many schools – in terms of infrastructure, they have built a lot. We realise that in other schools where we went to, SDCs in a school where there are disabled persons, it does not take time for them to sit down and discuss and ensure that the school is user friendly even to those who are disabled. So, I think that if the powers of the SDCs are left intact, our schools will develop. Even in our previous schools where we did our education, we go there to support because we know that the schools are in the hands of the communities. I do not know if there are any of us who are not part of the old students’ associations to help in the schools that they went to. I encourage them to go back and assist.
We realise if the SDCs are done away with and the money is taken to Government – you know the process of getting money from the Government, it will take long for the schools to get those funds. It is different from the fact that the parents and the headmaster can sit down when there is a challenge and address it promptly. So, I would want to support that Government should maintain the status quo. If they want to come up with a policy or legislation, they can come up with it to ensure that there is no maladministration and fraudulent activities and probably give regulatory guidelines for the chairpersons of the SDCs. I think that this is good for the children and the parents. The dura-walls and the fences that are built around schools – in rural areas, they have something like a neighbourhood watch and they go on duty and if they see a person breaking in, they encourage one another to look after the place and they protect their community. They are all happy and they want their areas to develop. So, I think that if these monies are taken to Government, yes it is good but it will also present challenges in that what is happening at the school on a daily basis can be affected. The parents were running the schools well in terms of maintenance and building the schools. If you go around and look at most schools, the children have furniture and parents are actually engaging teachers who are taking children for computers. The Government can say we are not enrolling more teachers because we do not have money but the parents source for these teachers. So, they have been doing well. With these few words Mr. President, I want to say that parents should maintain their power in these schools and also the administration of their levies. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT: I have an announcement to make. The owner of vehicle Registration number ADL 6603 parked along Nelson Mandela Street near ZimNat building is blocking other vehicles. Please have it removed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS ON SDG NO. 3
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the First report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals on SDG No. 3.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: Thank you Mr. President. I rise to support this report of the Thematic Committee on Sustainable Development Goals particularising only on SDG No. 3, which was reported by Hon. Sen. Chief Mtshane in this august House. Mr. President, when we deal with SDGs, you will find that they are similar in many ways, especially when we are looking at the SDG on poverty eradication.
First and foremost, we will have to see to it that poverty has been reduced because as long as we have poverty, you will find that the health is also affected. Also, if we look at the SDG on education, it has the same purpose because if you look at the schools that we have, especially in the resettlement areas, they are very far apart from each other and as a result of that, children have to walk long distances to school. By doing so, their health is affected as they will be walking long distances. Mr.
President, when we talked about ‘health for all’ including the aged, we meant to say that the health facilities should be nearer to the people.
People must not walk long distances. This is also found in the resettlement areas whereby people have to walk more than 20km to the nearest clinic. As a result, parents or communities suffer. They cannot have good health at all.
As I said earlier on, if we look at the poverty eradication SDG, you will find that it emphasises that food with nutrition value should be available because we cannot only talk about food without the addition of nutrition value. You will find that at the end of the day, especially the school going age, they might have kwashiorkor because of lack of nutrition. The old age might also have poor health because they are not having sufficient food with the right nutrition value. When we look at good health for all, you will find that we will be talking about the reduction of the epidemic on HIV/AIDS in all the people. There should be some means and aims to look at these issues so that everybody has the right to live, not only life but good health as well. If we look at these, there should be reduction on child mortality. There should be awareness and creation of promotional education material for the people so that people know about health issues and we reduce child mortality.
Mr. President, I could add and add because when we talk about health issues, it is a very touching issue. We have to look at all the issues concerning the health of the people. I would like to thank this Committee; I am not a member of the Committee but it affects me and the other people. Everybody needs to be healthy. Mr. President, with these few words, I would like to thank the mover of this report and the Committee as well. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MTSHANE: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 7th June, 2017.
MOTION
ADOPTION OF A DRAFT PROTOCOL ON THE AFRICAN
CHARTER ON HUMAN AND PEOPLE’S RIGHTS ON THE RIGHT
TO NATIONALITY AND THE ERADICATION OF STATELESSNESS IN AFRICA
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on resolving situations of statelessness in our country.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on the motion of statelessness. Zimbabwe is a member of the SADC Community that is encouraging countries to ensure that there are no people who are stateless within their countries. I am sure we are aware that our country from 1998 to 1999, just before the elections, many people whose origins were from Malawi and Zambia became stateless and declared non-Zimbabweans. Most of those people were born in Zimbabwe. Some of them did not know they are Zambians or Malawians because they did not have relatives there. These people have been in trouble because they did not know what to do after being born in Zimbabwe. Their grandfathers are the ones that came here and they have no relationship with what is said to be their countries of origins.
I am happy that now maybe SADC itself is discussing about the issue of statelessness. These people can easily gain back their statuses of being Zimbabweans because they are neither Malawians nor Zambians; they are Zimbabweans. I wish there could be a way of ensuring that these people get back their statuses. It is becoming another process to go back. Yes, the Government has agreed now that they can become Zimbabweans again but the process that they are going through is very difficult. I think Government should devise a system to make those people who have lost their statuses easily get it back. Can the processes be simplified for these people? Within the SADC community, they have been attending meetings and it has been said that Parliaments should be the ones that should come up with ways of making people not to be stateless. I wish we would really look into it and ensure that most of these people who are not Zimbabwean, Malawian or Zambian get back their status. Those children are Zimbabweans and are going to grow up poor.
In the UN, particularly the SDGs, it should state the point of removing remove poverty in our countries but if we are having those Zimbabweans without status, their children are not able to write examinations and are going to have uneducated families. We need to ensure that Zimbabwe continues with its high status in the education of its citizens. Can we have these citizens who are now stateless to have their status? Remember, any woman who has a child without status, that child becomes stateless because you need to have a birth certificate that says you are a Zimbabwean.
I am asking this House to assist in ensuring that all the
Zimbabwean children, those born outside and within Zimbabwe all have birth certificates and IDs so that they can be fully accepted. They can also visit the different areas they would want to visit. Remember that our country Zimbabwe is very much interested in sports. We have some of our children who are very good sportsmen but cannot go out because their parents have been denied the status of being Zimbabweans while they are truly Zimbabweans. The Government has agreed that they are now Zimbabweans but because it is difficult to get the status, I am asking this Parliament to help the Ministry of Social Welfare to ensure that the processing of these people’s papers is made easier and they become wholly Zimbabweans who can get their education, get into the sporting sector and can travel anywhere else. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHIPANGA: Mr. President, I want to say a few words concerning the issue of statelessness that was raised in this House. Firstly Mr. President, I want to start by explaining how a person gets to be stateless. I see there are different understandings of the term
‘statelessness’. Wherever a person is born, that is his nation. In terms of international law, if you are born on a plane on your way to United States of America, you are deemed to be Zimbabwean. So, if that is the case, how can someone be said to be stateless?
I heard others saying there are people who came here from other countries without their citizenship. Before we get there Mr. President, I want to say that a person cannot say that he stays in Chief Sithole’s area and then he can also be said to stay in the country belonging to Chief Chiduku. If you see a person doing that then there is a challenge. That is where statelessness comes in. If there is a conflict between Chief
Chiduku and Chief Sithole, where will this person’s allegiance lie? That is when you then say I cannot leave the Sitholes to be defeated or killed by the Chidukus and you give information. You are then arrested and that is when the Government says go to wherever you want to go. If you look at the Constitution Section 39, that is where you find that the Government can revoke your citizenship because they see that you are not a straightforward person and you do not have anywhere to stay. It then goes back to say what should be done.
It takes us back to the issue that we want a person to belong to one country, not to have dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is what causes statelessness. Mr. President, I want us to go back to the issue that for us not to have such a situation, the issue of dual citizenship is what has caused this challenge. What I know is that in the rural areas during the outreach programmes on the writing of the Constitution, people said that they want a person to be a citizen of one country. So, I do not know where dual citizenship came from and that is where the challenge is.
For that reason, I would want us to go back to the drawing board and say that if a person is Zimbabwean, he should be a citizen of Zimbabwe if that person was born in Zimbabwe and it does not matter where the parents come from. If they were born in Zimbabwe they are Zimbabweans, not for a person to choose to say my parents are from
Australia and so, I want to have Australian citizenship; I was born in
Zimbabwe and I am now a citizen of Zimbabwe. If you go and work in Britain and spend five years without committing any crime, you can apply for citizenship. That is what causes challenges. If you are engaging in criminal activities here and there, you end up not having any citizenship. So, I was thinking that we should focus on this issue that we did not look into carefully, that a person should be a citizen of one nation not dual citizenship.
Mr. President, let me go back to the issue that was mentioned in this House that there are people who came from other countries where they were chased away and came to find somewhere to stay. From what I know, the people from Malawi and Zambia for example, came in the 1920s and 1930s and worked at the railways. They lived there and most of them died here. Their children are here and were given identity documents but the challenge that occurred was that others maintained the links with their countries without knowing that tomorrow it would be a challenge and they consider themselves Malawians. They took national identity cards that were written non-citizen. Once one’s identity card says non-citizen, it does not mean you cannot stay in that nation. You can stay there. In Zimbabwe, you can stay but you do not have voting rights or the right to contest in an election but no one is questioned why they are still in Zimbabwe.
Now, the current laws say that if you decide that you want to be a Zimbabwean, you have to go to the immigration office and submit your forms – within a short time, you are advised that you are now a citizen and are eligible to vote. No-one is expelled from this nation but I know that there are people who when things were difficult, went and threw their passports at the Registrar General’s office. Those who were in Parliament in 2003-2005, you will remember that Mr. Mudede came here with a box of passports and said that people had surrendered their passports and said they no longer wanted to be called Zimbabweans. If they travelled with the Zimbabwean passport, the British would deport them. So, they went back to their countries to get their passports. When they got to their countries, they faced challenges and came back and said ‘my mother is from Hwedza and my father if from Malawi. I was born in such an area and I am a Zimbabwean’. That is where we find challenges in Zimbabwe. People are in problems. As far as I know, there is no situation whereby a person does not have anywhere to stay.
Let me conclude by saying that to end statelessness is to say if a person is Zimbabwean, they should maintain their citizenship as Zimbabwean; no matter what criminal activities they may do and whatever, that person is Zimbabwean and cannot be sent anywhere. But if a person has other citizenship, that is where you find a person is chased away from that country and sent back to his country. When you get to Zimbabwe, people want to know where you used to stay and they will tell you that because of your criminal behaviour, we do not want you in Zimbabwe. Let us go back to the situation whereby a person only has one citizenship. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE
(HON. SEN. J. MACHAYA): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
FIRST REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON HIV AND
AIDS ON HIV AND AIDS IN INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER
LEARNING IN ZIMBABWE
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on the First Report of the Thematic Committee on HIV and AIDS and AIDS in Institutions of Higher Learning in Zimbabwe. Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. GOTO: Thank you Mr. President. I stand to support the pertinent report that was presented to this Senate by Hon. Sen. Timveos a few days ago. For people to be healthy, they do not need all those diseases. They said that they went around with the Thematic
Committee and went to different institutions. I want to thank them.
They mentioned that they came across many challenges but I have realised that I need to say one or two things. The institutions that they visited are our family as well. HIV and AIDS that they talked about and consulted the children soliciting their views on challenges and realizing that the situation in institutions was not good; I do not know where we are going with this issue. When we are talking about this issue of giving birth to a number of children; I am sure others will be borne whilst others are dying. The issue of having more children will assist but what we are saying is that the students no longer have moral values and they no longer value themselves. They have no respect of their lecturers. They have so many rights and think they have become adults. They build their homes there.
This uncontrollable nature of students is because we are no longer considering our cultural norms and values. Long ago, it was taboo for a girl and boy child to play together. Our children are now talking about ‘blessers’ who are the men who give them what they want. These children say they do not want to use condoms. I think the Government did a good thing to avail condoms. Condoms did not only start when HIV and AIDS came in but they started long back when they were used to prevent STIs and for family planning purposes. Most people survived because of the condoms. Today the condoms are still there but our children are saying they do not want to use them. They say they cannot eat a wrapped sweet. If the sweet is wrapped, they cannot enjoy it.
They feel that if they use condoms, they will not enjoy the intimacy.
I realised that to end this, we need our cultural norms and values. Traditional leaders here present can confirm that there are certain things that we used to do when a child was born. If it is a boy child, you would do something to ensure that the child does not become sexually active and concentrate on women. Even when the child became mature, he would not be interested in women.
I am sure that the women here know what I am talking about. If it is a girl child, there were certain things that you needed to do to ensure that that child does not have the passion for men. The Chiefs know that they used to sit with the boys at night around a fire and advise the young boys. My request to the traditional leaders is that we go back to our traditional norms and cultural values and encourage the men in your areas to interrogate such issues. We are told that they take drugs and they do not care what they are doing. So, what we are saying is they should stop taking drugs. That is why I am saying that the children tell you that they do not care about HIV/AIDS because ARVs are there and they can prolong life. So, all I want to say is that we need to go back to our cultural norms and values. We have aunties and also elderly men.
Long ago, the diseases were there, but it was not as bad as it is today. I heard one Hon. Member saying that her mother was 122 years old. It is not an age that is easy for us to attain. We cannot attain such an age because we have lost our morals and also us, as the mothers, we do not have time for our children. As mothers, we are all going different directions. We have no time with our children. You see a child coming with a box of groceries and you actually thank the child, but you do not actually know where the groceries came from. That child will continue being immoral because they know you are appreciating the groceries. So, we need to teach our children. I therefore thought I would support Hon. Timveos with the report that she gave.
Those with ears have heard - if we continue to teach them, they will also understand. Even the teachers right now are getting into relationships with our children. If your child is caught with a teacher how would you feel? Hence, we need to educate our teachers that you cannot have sexual relationships with school children. In most schools there are so many problems that have become popular. Children now have become sexually active and it has become a menace in our nation.
Hon. Timveos, we thank you for the motion. We will also talk to our children and those with ears will understand. It is not about children not having money, you need to value yourselves. When children go to school they have a lot of money, but because of the rise in such cases, children are engaging in this not for money, but because they do not just listen. I want to thank you, Mr. President, for this opportunity. I have children and I have grandchildren and my wish is that they grow up with morals as well. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I stood up to say one or two words and also to thank the Thematic Committee on HIV/AIDS that went on tours to institutions of higher learning to witness what is happening in our institutions. Surely if we were to sit in this House and not going out on tours to see what is happening, especially the living conditions and the activities our children are engaging in at higher institutions, we would not be leaders.
If you hear a girl child telling you that ‘I cannot have a sweet that is wrapped’, it means that child has gone astray and cannot be controlled. So, what I was thinking is that other issues that were mentioned on this issue - it is just that our Ministers are always tied up with other official business, but what I do not know whether the deputies are equally tied up. We would want them to come here and hear us debate and probably they would hear what we are saying in this House.
What they only get is the Hansard. The Hansard does not get to other areas. In other areas you cannot take that Hansard because it is only in English, it is not in vernacular. So, even if you take it to the rural areas, others are not as educated and cannot read the Hansard in English, but if it was in vernacular, we would then say that our message is being taken to different areas and communities and also be assured that the students are hearing about it and they would also know that whatever they told us is being discussed in Parliament. I am sure they would change their behaviour.
My request is that the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education,
Science and Technology Development and the Ministry of Health and Child Care should assist us because it is an issue that will further handicap us in the future, because if children are now refusing to use some of the preventive measures to avoid HIV infections, it is a challenge. It will cost us a lot as a Government in the near future because children will now be infected with HIV/Aids and others will get married being infected by the disease already. So, we realise that when they get sick, the Government will need funds to get medication or ARVs to ensure that they prolong the lives of these students. So, I think these two Ministries should come and address this issue and find ways of talking to the children.
I agree with Hon. Goto that we understand what you are saying. We are reading it in the papers in the areas where we are. A child who is 10 years old - you hear of teachers raping girl children. The Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education should talk to their teachers and ensure that they do not have relationships with minors. When the teacher went and took an oath to be a teacher, these things were not there, but now the teachers are doing it. The teachers are there to assist the girl children rather than rape them. That is why I was requesting that the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education be here. They can assist us by talking to the teachers. The teachers, as well, can raise awareness, not only in schools, but also in the communities.
In the community it is difficult. There are other people who are given a hearing and others who are not. In rural areas, people will listen to teachers and drivers. If a teacher says anything, they will listen. If a nurse says something, they understand. Our request is that those Ministries assist us. I do not have a lot of words to say. I might spoil the motion that was well debated by all those who debated on it. I want to thank you Mr. President.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE
(HON. SEN. MACHAYA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
MOTION
SECOND REPORT OF THE THEMATIC COMMITTEE ON GENDER
AND DEVELOPMENT ON EARLY CHILD MARRIAGE
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Report of the Thematic Committee on Gender and Development on
Early Child Marriages.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MAKORE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GOTO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 8th June, 2017.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MIDLANDS PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MACHAYA) the Senate
adjourned at Eleven Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 7th June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Thank you Madam President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Madam President. I
move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. A. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 8th June, 2016.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MEDIA, INFORMATION
AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MATHUTHU):
Thank you Madam President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO THE FIRST AFRO-ARAB
LEGISLATORS AND BUSINESS SUMMIT
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: I move the motion standing in my
name that;
This House:
Takes note of the report of the delegation to the First Afro-Arab Legislators and Business Summit held at the Sheraton Addis Hotel in
Addis Ababa, Ethiopia from 1st to 2nd August, 2015.
HON. SEN. D.T. KHUMALO: I second.
HON. SEN. MUMVURI: Thank you very Madam President. I
want to give a report of the delegation which went to Ethiopia last year. Unfortunately, it is now late but let me do it.
Madam President, the First Arab African Legislators and Business
Summit was held in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, at the Sheraton Addis Hotel from the 1st to the 2nd of August, 2015. The Association of Senates SHOORA and Equivalent Councils in Africa and the Arab World
(ASSECA), together with the Pan African Chamber of Commerce and
Industry (PACCI) hosted the Summit under the theme, ‘Investing in Africa Makes Sense’.
The Conference was aimed at creating a unique partnership by engaging African-Arab Parliamentarians and business to discuss how to encourage sustainable growth and business integration. That was the aim. The summit brought together, Senators, members of the SHOORA
Councils, the Business and Investment community, Associations,
Chambers of Commerce experts, Investment Promotion officers,
Opinion makers and Government decision makers.
As the delegation from Zimbabwe, unfortunately we could not go with the secretariat, it was only made up of Members of Parliament. The delegation was comprised as follows: Sen. Tawengwa who was also the leader of the delegation; Sen. D.T. Khumalo and Sen. D.D.E. Mumvuri.
The other participants from the continent and beyond included the following people; there were several delegates, speakers, presenters, moderators, some Presidents of the Senates – not all of them; Presidents of National Assemblies, Speakers of National Assemblies and their deputies and also other Members of Parliaments. There were also ambassadors and former ambassadors. The ASSECA secretariat was also present. Representatives of Chamber and Commerce from several countries also attended, bankers and financial consultants, travel and tour operators also came in to give their input. Representatives of
School of Journalism and Communication, Accelerated Women’s Empowerment groups, Chief Executive officers and consultants on water resources management.
The countries which were represented at the Summit include the host country Ethiopia, Seychelles, Sudan, Congo Brazzaville, Algeria, Botswana, Kenya, Morocco, Namibia, Libya, Kuwait, Eritrea, Djibouti and Zimbabwe. The various speakers and presenters emphasised the need for collaboration and cooperation and an improved business climate with progressive and social economic policies which should transform the well-being of communities and economic gains.
Madam President, it was noted that Africa was blessed with natural and human resources but there were challenges, bottlenecks and hurdles, some of which are real and others are perceived in doing business with some African States. Some of the challenges and bottlenecks include the following:
- Corruption which we have to fight as a continent;
- Red tape which results in investors taking their investment to other countries which are more friendly;
- The issue of democracy and human rights was also on the spotlight;
- Prohibitive labour laws;
- Uncertainty about investment laws resulting in lack of investor confidence;
- Negative projection of Africa by the media at large;
- Visa barriers in Africa, hence prohibiting the free movement of people and goods, although it was argued during the Summit that visas were necessary in order to arrest vices such as smuggling.
The point is that they must be clarified;
- Lack of trade security, peace and stability which at times leads to untimely change of governments;
- Lack of trade promotion, hence lack of information;
- Lack of partnership between public and private sectors in Africa and lack of direct access to some African countries, which means, travelling via Europe more often than not;
- Exporting of raw materials without value addition, an initiative which Zimbabwe is now taking lead and I hope that we are winning in that regard;
- Discriminatory and legal frameworks in coherence and national legislators;
- Lack of arbitration in cases of disputes; and
- Lack of finance and incentives for investors.
The discussions and presentation during the conference period noted various issues, notably the following things:- That there was a strong base for partnership between Arab and African nations which would create a bigger market if it is pursued in full.
Some countries prefer to import most of their products from Europe because of quality and we shun our own which we make locally. Africa is one of the top destinations in terms of tourism, yet it is underutilised. Europe had the bloodiest wars in history but transformed a tragedy into opportunities for creating a common trading identity. Brazil and Argentina are the commercial regional institutions in Latin America due to fostering of ties which they are pursuing there. If you are trading partners, rarely do you fight; hence the African Union wants to establish free trade areas which should be encouraged. The East African trade between Kenya, Rwanda and Tanzania was cited as an example of free movement of people, goods and capital. I think we should do the same with SADC, and initiative to do the same. Trade unites all nations and promotes peace and this is what we should pursue. Some countries have very influential Chambers of Commerce and Trade which were backed by their governments. Unfortunately, we did not travel with any from the business sector from Zimbabwe. It was only us who went to that
Summit without people from the Chamber of Commerce, ZNCC or CZI.
Exporting primary resources and at times these were seasonal and hence, not sustainable that most countries had embassies with trade and commercial attachés who were not carrying out their mandates at all.
That a lot of conferences are being held but the resolutions are not implemented at the end of the day. There is a big potential in agriculture, mining and ICT sectors growth in Africa but again we are not getting the full advantage of these.
Due to urbanization it was noted that there was need for infrastructure including roads, water treatment works and sewerage, power and electricity and transport to be developed. The population of Africa is about 1.2 billion people and 50-60% is below 30 years old and are fast to learn, adapt and very hard working people. The standards of living in Africa are changing and improving, therefore creating a larger market of consumers must be expedited.
There is an excellent climate and environment in African countries which exist at the moment. Some sectors such as tourism and manufacturing are showing improvement here and there and Zimbabwe is no exception to that. Africa through pan-Africanism should develop. Africa will become a bread basket if the Arab world through declining perceptions of risk, the Arab world is keen to trade and invest in Africa. It was encouraged that the Arab world should take an initiative and maybe take advantage of the African resources, instead of just looking to the West. The Arab world is also equally capable.
Corruption in Africa is being overplayed by people who are subjective and who do not know Africa itself. It is us who must project the positive look of Africa and not the outsiders. Investors are cautious to invest in Africa due to perceived instability. They are hesitant to come in with their investment for that purpose. There is need to also focus on local trade among ourselves – regional trade like SADC on its own and
East Africa and ECOWAS.
The continent is also urged to group as regions for easy management and effectiveness like SADC and COMESA. At the end of these discussions Mr. President the summit made the following recommendations:
- That there is need for technology and skills transfer in specific areas each time an investment is made.
- There is need to intensify youth training through technical institutions and vocational training centres.
- There is urgent need for beneficiation and value addition which must be pursued in these investments.
- There is need to create a bigger market in order to sell more goods and services which are made locally from African nations.
- There is need to create visa free borders for free movement of goods and people. Legislators must play their roles in coming up with supportive legal instruments and reforming legislation.
- There is need to introduce commercial courts and arbitration centres for disputes which may arise through these dealings.
- Countries should urge manufacturers to manufacture quality and exportable goods.
- Countries should eradicate corruption where it exists and clear misconceptions.
- There is need for educational exchange programmes for youths in order to understand different cultures.
- There is need for long term agriculture finance and for small and medium enterprises. I think in Zimbabwe we are already ahead because we have got a ministry which is attributed to that sector.
- There is need to improve the way of doing business by creating a one stop business centre with clear investment laws and investment processes.
- There is need for Government to listen and heed private sector issues for a vibrant private sector, hence advocating Governments to stop ignoring the private sector which are major players in the industries. The private sector should act as lobbyists and the Government must create the conducive environment for them to do business.
- To increase foreign direct investment (FDI), there is need to build investor confidence and to protect foreign investments by providing investor friendly frameworks.
- There is need to create free trade area zones and provide incentives and guarantees. Free or low tax over a given period will do. Free or lower water tariffs, 20 to 30 year leases can be investor friendly and attract more investment.
- There is need to reduce trade barriers and liberalise trade in between and among African countries themselves before we go beyond.
- Enhance trade by providing a conducive environment and maintain peace and stability.
- There is need for investors to understand the investment laws of that country like labour laws, contract laws, rules, regulations and culture of their intended investment destinations.
- They should also study the skills needed for their business and also a reliable competent local partner so that there is transfer of skills at the end of the partnership.
- It was also noted that there was need for clear understanding of the terrain as it is not a one-size-fits-all in African nations.
Mr. President, the discussions went on to look at the finances side and their implications as well. The conference was informed that the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa is prepared to finance infrastructure development, agriculture, irrigation, industry, health, housing, and education among others. This was a very attractive discussion. As African nations, we should seize that opportunity. We should not only look to the western countries but also the Arab world who convened this summit. It is also ready to finance the private sector and financing international trade, which is the imports and exports endevours. Afro-Arab institutions are ready to do business with Africa.
It was noted that Morocco is the second largest investor in Africa.
Countries were urged to create capital markets for easier investment.
There was need for easier repatriation of dividends and foreign currency to be enhanced and to also introduce the Build, Operate and Transfer system (BOT), which we are all familiar with. It was also mooted that these ventures must be undertaken. Financial institutions were to provide and avail information on the availability of finances and their targeted projects in the African nations.
Mr. President, it was also summarised that Africa has the potential to attract Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) with huge potential in agriculture. This one is very applicable to Zimbabwe as it was endowed with vast tracts of land, several water bodies – rivers and conducive environment. There was also potential for huge irrigation projects resulting in good yields. We could have avoided the Elnino induced drought hunger which is ravaging Africa if we had developed thriving irrigation schemes.
There is also potential in the tourism sector. In order to achieve the above, there was need for the same vision and mission with specific objectives, a clear strategy and harmonised efforts. There is need to address impediments, be pragmatic in our approach, provide quality information and be transparent. There was also need to utilize the media and embassies, produce skilled manpower and encourage private and public dialogue in order to create positive attitudes. We should not forget that every problem has a solution but it has to be explored in order to get to that solution. Countries were urged to come up with short, medium and long term projects and were reminded that there is need for action with political will.
In conclusion, the conference was reminded that the Third Ministerial Conference on Agriculture was going to be held in Kampala in November, 2015 and that the agenda 2063 which is being talked about was preparing Africa for the next 50 years. That is the end of the report
Mr. President.
HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity to add a little information to what has been said. That report has been very comprehensive, so I have very minor issues to add onto it, which might even have been mentioned. There was the importance of having laws that govern trade so that when people are coming to start businesses in other countries, they are aware of the dos and don’ts according to the law. This will ensure that people are not apprehensive but know exactly what is right and what is wrong. There is also the issue of free economic zones, which we are discussing as a country. We hope we are going to try to have these economic zones so that our country can have investors who will know that they will have a bit of leeway to pay taxes and also doing other business.
My other small observation was that there were more than 66 people who were attending the conference but only 13 were women who included the presenters. I thought that in Zimbabwe we make sure we balance the numbers and within that meeting there was no gender balance. The recognition of women in that forum is very low. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr.
President for according me this opportunity to add my voice. I want to thank Senator Mumvuri, his seconder Sen. Khumalo and the whole delegation that attended this conference. I was listening very carefully when the Senator was giving us his report. I think he touched on very pertinent issues and I think the meeting aimed at our upbringing as Africans. I think this is noble and should continue. However, as I was listening, I was wondering what we should do in Africa in relation to corruption. Corruption has been talked about on several occasions and it continues to be talked about at every fora. We are now tired of hearing the same thing. We only talk about ending corruption. I was talking to Hon. Sen. Tawenga that if you go to Nigeria, they have oil but they do not have fuel, a lot of shady deals are happening. So, what is happening in Africa? Why do we not want people to live well in Africa? You have talked about investors and the red tape. When you try to invest in Africa, you meet a lot of challenges.
I was saying to Hon. Sen. Tawengwa that I remember Nyerere’s book which he wrote in 1967, which is called “Speeches by President
Nyerere”. In 1967 they were talking about corruption, even the likes of Kwame Nkrumah. Even up to now our terms come and end but when talking about corruption we just end up talking and taking no action.
We talk about value addition, yet it is just a question of semantics where we are adding new vocabulary to what we already know. We talk of paradigm shift as if it is a new thing yet it is the same thing that the likes of Kwame Nkrumah and Nyerere talked about. Long back they referred to this as import substitution and self reliance. Even the likes of Kaunda talked about humanism and uhuru. They were referring to all this that we should add value to our things. But in Africa when things do not go the way they want for 50 years, then they will look for different words, adding problems on top of more problems, but I think now, we have reached another stage that when we meet during our workshops, we should not waste time holding workshops. We should get into the gear of putting an end to all this. So, we should now go a higher level, not to just keep on talking and lamenting and exciting ourselves or even having PhDs. They are talking about obvious things.
We have a lot of people who are educated but they do not have any solutions. They are just telling us what we know; that investors are frustrated in Africa. We know all that and people are doing PhDs on that. We know that Africa is not progressing because they are telling us what we know. Even our old people in the rural areas know about all this. Even the dead people, if they were to wake up, they would be turning in their graves because they know all this. So, I want to thank this report because it has touched on a number of issues that affect us. But what I want to say is that, as Parliament, we should hold a workshop to finish all this and put a stop on all this. Thank you.
HON. SENATOR MUSAKA: Thank you President. I wish to thank Hon. Senator Mumvuri and the seconder, Hon. Senator Khumalo on this report. I also wish to add my voice to the issues discussed. They were wide ranging and indeed pertinent and touching to Africa. I wish to start perhaps, with the issue of corruption which has been talked about many times. I think it is incumbent upon us, the legislators, to be zero tolerant on policy or approach to corruption.
Indeed, as Hon. Chief Charumbira said, we talk and talk. I think somehow and in some way in one corner, things just die. There is forgiveness. People are corrupt. Things happen and they speak a lot of English and a lot of words to justify wrong doing. I think this august
Senate should take a stand, even the President as it is stated in the
Constitution, the President runs the country with the assistance of Parliament. Can we assist the President? Really, it is too much. There is just so much corruption. You cannot go to any doctor and use your medical aid. There is so much corruption that the doctors have just begun to almost run us. They refuse unless you pay this and pay that, you do this and do that. We are getting nowhere. Even amongst ourselves, we also get involved in a lot of shoddy deals, short cuts and when it comes, again I repeat, we speak a lot of English. A language that we do not understand; oh yes it simply means this and I am allowed to do that and we are just quiet. Can we say No to corruption? I think it is high time.
Mr. President, I also wish to make a contribution on the issue of financing. Perhaps, I will also talk about it in my motion. The Arab world – in 2014, I think we had another delegation and we went to
Jordan. The same appeal was made and I am so surprised that maybe some of our Ministers or ours are not taking the initiative. It is just a repeat of what happened in Addis Ababa. When we went to Jordan, the same thing was said. The Arab financial institutions are ready to give us money, but we are always crying. We cannot work effectively on Beitbridge – Chirundu - Masvingo road because we have no money, but some people are prepared to give us some money. Is it that they do not know where to go or how to do it? I cannot understand. There is so much money. It is true, Mr. President, the people are willing to help us.
Either, as it has been said, we are PhDs. I do not know, PhDs, pulling him down or it is PhD in just failing to do things. I cannot understand. We appeal and people are ready to give us money, but still we have no money, we cannot do this. Something is wrong. Again, maybe let us take the initiative somehow, this august Senate, to find out from the Ministries or the Ministers concerned what the challenges and impediments are. Why can they not access this money for the roads, why can we not access this money for agriculture? GMB should pay the workers. Why can we not do it? I do not understand. So, Mr. President, I think this was an important report and important delegation. We should learn something from this.
I want to come on to production. I want to talk about primary goods. Mr. President, if we are serious, let us produces maize in abundance. It does not matter. It is a primary commodity. Only then do we begin to actually go to the second stage. If we do not have the primary commodity, how do we move to the next stage? We cannot. We do not want to actually start importing sugar cane to start manufacturing sugar. It is just not possible. Maize can do wonders. People, let us just come and produce that in abundance. Only then, do we take off. So, with those few words, Mr. President, I wish to thank you.
*HON. SENATOR MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President. I
thank you for giving me the opportunity to support the motion raised by Hon. Mumvuri, seconded by Hon. Khumalo. We would like to say thank you for representing us at the conference which was held in those countries. We thank every one of you who took part in that conference.
Let me say, Mr. President, corruption is now a cancer in our country and we seem to be letting corruption rear its ugly head in our country. It is a draw back in development. Some of us are even describing it as something we are really nurturing and we are using only different words to express the same thing. I wish to appeal to governments of Africa, especially in Zimbabwe. There is a biblical saying that says, let me remove the log in my eye before I can remove the speck in other people’s eyes. We need to work hard in fighting corruption.
There is a singer in Zimbabwe, Thomas Mapfumo, who sang about corruption. At first we were surprised as to why he was singing about that, but it is now rampant and I believe that as a State, we need to take corrective measures. We need to punish convicted offenders on corruption and this should be high profile so that they lead by example. We know we are not the only ones who are talking about this issue, but even when the leaders were talking, they were saying we need to fight corruption, but there was not enough support.
It is known that countries are not developing. We are retarding development because of corruption. I may be forgetting the time and date of what could be happening but we went on a launch of fighting corruption and we were given resources so that we fight this corruption. We have the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs who had tried to raise that in fighting against corruption? There was a lot of money which was used but why are we spending monies when we are still continuing practicing corruption? I believe that when we attend these conferences, especially regarding problems like corruption, when we get resolutions and when we get home, let us implement that because at times they sympathise with our governments in Africa. They fly us to luxurious places; we stay in beautiful hotels, attend these high profile conferences but when we come back home with the resolutions, we do not implement what has been resolved. We need to support the leaders of our country.
Mr. President, at one time President Mugabe talked strongly against corruption but I am saying, time is now that we need to fight corruption. We have had the call that whosoever is involved in corruption should be flashed out, arrested and convicted. When a high profile is convicted, there should be publicity and they will lead by example. This will be an electric shock to would-be perpetrators of corruption. I think I have made enough contribution in the fight against corruption. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President, for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on a motion raised by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and seconded by Hon. Sen.Khumalo, where they were talking about Africa. Africa is a continent which has lots of natural resources which are even more than all the other countries in the world. We have gold, oil and all the precious metals, they are all found in Africa. We have been told that a person who has lots of monies stored in his house and is doing very well is said to be person living good life because he is living a healthy life. It is a sign that he is living a luxurious life. The same should be happening to our country. Africa is endowed with lots of natural resources and these should be seen on the lives of the people of Africa, living luxurious and healthy lives but the reverse is true.
Mr. President, why is Africa the poorest continent in the world when it is endowed with such lots of riches? We have corruption, red tape, questionable human rights, bad labour laws and the media is also castigated for speaking ill of Africa. Why should Africa be at the suffering end of all these atrocities? We look at what we term ‘African leadership’. Leaders of Africa should take steps to fight corruption. We have heard one of us saying corruption happens in our own backyard which is in Africa. People fight against each other. We have red tape in Zimbabwe; we have people talking about human rights and democracy, issues of labour and media laws. These are challenges in Zimbabwe. Therefore, true of what the Bible says, start by removing the log in your eye before you talk of the spike in your neighbour’s eye. We should know that we are part of the African leadership but these are my observations – corruption, red tape and all these bad things.
Mr. President, research says if the institutions running the country are weak, these ills will thrive. For instance, we have Hon. Sen. Komichi here, if he is involved in corrupt activities, he is not arrested because the institutions are weak. In Zimbabwe, we did talk about anticorruption for quite a long time but this is just something which was just a talk-show. We have our police force which turns a blind eye towards corruption. Therefore, if the institution is weak, there are some people who will take advantage of the situation and be involved in corruption.
Suppose, I have been appointed the Minister of Finance, and you receive some donations, I will definitely dip my fingers into that because I know that I will not be punished. Therefore, let us implement the resolutions which fight corruption. We need to have commissions and institutions which we put in place to help fight these social ills. As a Government and as a nation, are we really dedicated to fighting corruption.
Let us compare ourselves with the situation in South Africa. President Zuma was accused of using State funds in building his rural home, iNkandla and the public protector made some investigations which said 16 million Rands was abused. That report was brought to Parliament and there was robust debate on that. The issue was taken again to court and the court was very sincere in implementing the resolutions. The President of South Africa, President Zuma apologised to the State for that mishap – why? Because the institutions of South Africa, the three arms of State are very strong and firm in fighting corruption. We know that they did that because there was that dedication to fight corruption. I therefore, urge Zimbabwe to develop to that level whereby we will be prepared to fight tooth and nail in fighting corruption.
Therefore, we have some other organisations talking about it but as Zimbabwe, we are afraid of talking about it. We even have some people who have the audacity of saying corruption is now an asset which is used in exchanging goodies. We even admire people who are involved in corruption and we are saying corruption is no longer a problem yet it is a way of life in Zimbabwe. As stated by the previous speaker, corruption is cancer and it destroys the country. Corruption causes poverty because companies will not develop in a corrupt climate and even service providers will never lead to the development of a country because all the resources are abused. Schools and health facilities are destroyed by corruption. Roads are devastated because of corruption. Electricity is a problem because of corruption. We have read about this in our press and we have heard of corruption in ZESA. At NRZ, workers have not been paid for the past 24 months. Corruption is an evil, corruption is a cancer which you have to fight, first in our country, in Zimbabwe and when we look outside, we will give directives.
We have had a report that talks about conflicts in Africa. How do people develop, how does Africa develop when it has so many conflicts?
These wars thrive because people will be using Africa’s natural resources to destroy. We have conflicts in Nigeria and Mal. Instead of using resources for development, they are used for wars. Somalia, Morroco, South Sudan, DRC, there are conflicts and even Zimbabwe, how can a country develop? How can Africa develop when there are such conflicts due to corruption? We know that resources are stolen whenever there are disturbances in a country because those in leadership, especially in the army will take advantage and loot from the state coffers for their own benefit. We are aware that Africa is at number one or two in terms of conflict resolution. We may say we are second after the Middle East where the ongoing conflicts are destroying resources.
We need to talk about issues of good governance and democracy. Let us fight corruption. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of leadership because they should be fighting corruption and these civil wars. The leadership should be pursuing democracy in the country and if we are to talk with one voice as Zimbabweans on addressing these ills, we will have development in the country and have investors coming in the country. We need to fight hard this corruption in order to develop and enforce human rights.
Zimbabwe has a problem that is affecting its use of money because those that go about sourcing for funds for the development of the country are saying human rights have been abrogated. We have people disappearing and people have been asking the whereabouts of Itai Dzamara. As a country, we need to fight corruption and uphold human rights. I put the blame squarely on the leadership because we need peace and development but this can only be achieved when we have peace in Africa then we can develop and trade with other countries.
We can borrow things such as technology from other countries. We can talk to other continents but they will give us the technology on condition that we are a peaceful country. We can benefit from their technology, therefore this report should also look at what Africa is doing in other areas. The challenge that we have in Africa is lack of a united front in addressing our problems. We have a fragmented approach, hence the divide and rule policy by would be investors as they go to countries that they deem have conducive investment policies.
For example, minerals may be discovered in Tanzania,
Mozambique and Zimbabwe and an investor from China or elsewhere will seek for a country that has friendly investment policies that are peaceful and uphold human rights issues. Therefore, these ills are leading to the under development of Africa. As Africans, let us be prepared to fight corruption and uphold human rights.
Therefore let us not be disempowered by the Executive because there are problems when systems are weak. An Executive that has too much power weakens the other arms of the state. We must work together with the Executive in order to be able to solve our problems.
*HON. SEN. SHIRI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on the motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Khumalo after attending the Afro-Arab Legislators and Business Summit. We were advised that the Arab countries have set aside funds for the development of willing African countries in development partnerships.
They also spoke about youth exchange programmes whereby we have our youths going to the Arab countries to acquire knowledge on the development of the country. The biggest challenge that is hindering progress is that of corruption. Corruption is a problem because looking at what is happening in this country. We are in the winter season, we have the elderly and women carrying babies on their backs and we also have people who are spreading rumours that the Zimbabwe Dollar is about to return. Some people have even paid as much as $10.00 as a result these people are peddling these lies, thus making investors shun Zimbabwe.
People do not understand the relevance of bond notes and are trying to withdraw their money to avoid the conversion to bond notes hence people are being fleeced of their hard earned cash. The poor people are the ones who suffer when there is corruption. The vulnerable groups such as the youths, women and the elderly suffer the most as corruption mainly involves men. This is very true because men are the ones who are mainly involved in corruption yet youths, women and the elderly bear the brunt. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear!] - I am telling the truth because we should call a spade a spade if we are to fight corruption. Members of the public are leading miserable lives due to corruption.
Some people are travelling distances of up to 5 kilometers to their banks but they do not get anything. We also have teachers leaving schools to withdraw their salaries from the banks and they are absent for weeks on end because they want to get their money. This is all due to corruption. People are suffering due to inadequate knowledge on the substance of bond notes. There is need for public education and awareness campaigns so that people are aware of what these bond notes represent. We need to fight corruption. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: Thank you Mr. President, initially
I had resolved not to contribute on this motion. After our discussion, I feel that we could be spending more time on a motion that will be tabled in the next sitting.
The conference that we attended advised that investing in Africa makes sense. These countries were looking for ways and means to invest in Africa. This has been amicably stated by Hon. Sen. Mumvuri and Hon. Sen. Khumalo on how the African countries can attract these investors. The talk on corruption was a sideline on the main topic and when we talk of corruption we should ask ourselves to say, what is corruption. I observed that when hon. senators are making a contribution, like Hon. Sen. Shiri, corruption develops from ignorance. We have been told of the bond notes, but the information is distorted. This is used by people so that they can destroy the economy. When we talked of the bond coins, we also had that problem but we managed to launch these bond coins and they are now making it easy for us to do our purchases and monitory exchanges. Therefore, let us unite and fight corruption. This was the report which talked about the different ways of attracting investors to Africa.
The other motion which was raised is that, why is it that we have some products which are manufactured in Zambia or South Africa? We have people who want to go and buy things in Europe instead of buying from their neighbours. The reason given was that, we are not perfectionists. We produce shoddy products which cannot be marketed. For example, we are talking of tourism in the country and we said we need to levy 15% on that but we hear tourists saying we are no longer coming to Zimbabwe because you are an expensive country. Therefore, we need to talk to the Ministers or the Government on what we can do to reduce this fee from these tourists.
The late Muammar Gaddafi, the former leader of Libya was talking about empowering Africa – intra-trade between African countries. We need to put our heads together as the people of Africa and that way we will develop Africa because if we do not do that, we will be at the beck and call of the Big Brother. We need to look at the special skills which can be availed in our country. We need to dialogue and talk in unison.
We have had talks with our Ministers such as Hon. Zhanda whereby we ask to say, why is it that the peasant farmers who were subscribing to the fulfillment of our grain silos but now we have problems. Why is it that? We need to be doing some things as we have technology which can be used. Why are our farmers not producing as much as they were doing – it means that they need to be empowered and if we empower them by giving them the correct resources, Zimbabwe will develop and will have sufficient food?
We have embassies in those countries but my question is; why are our ambassadors failing to talk of the resources/riches in Zimbabwe to attract investors? We need to talk of these people like Hon. Marongwe who was looking after the girl child of Zimbabwe who had been taken as a slave to the Arab countries. Why should Zimbabwe be a country whereby if you want slaves, you are told to go to Zimbabwe? We need to create a good image of Zimbabwe.
We have talked about the infrastructure of Zimbabwe in the development. Let me say, we have these land barons. They are built and supported by us the people of Zimbabwe because we support them. When we talk about some of these issues that Zimbabwe is corrupt, we have people who will not come to invest because they will be saying that there is corruption. We are putting out wrong signals for example; we are talking about the Zika Virus in Brazil but the way that it is being talked about is that it is in Africa, yet it is somewhere far.
Therefore, we need to talk of developing Africa so that one day;
Africa will become the breadbasket of the world. We did agree that Africa has a lot of natural resources but these are being abused by corrupt people. Instead of developing the country, they are used by these corrupt people. This is in a case where if there is enough food in the country, the status of chiefs and some people may not be noticed, but if there is starvation in the country, those generous people will come and donate food and they will be recognised and their status would be raised.
That is the issue that we are talking about that we have a country like Nigeria which is an oil rich country, but because of mismanagement- there are always wars, fights and starvation. As countries of Africa like in Zimbabwe, let us look for ways of empowering our youth. As it is difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, let us teach our youth so that they talk of the development of Africa and investment in Africa. We need to create the rules which will lead them to the production and development of Africa.
On corruption, even when the President when he is delivering speeches, he is always fighting the corruption. We talked about the financing of agriculture. We have a Minister of Finance and Economic Development who should be aware that we need to empower our farmers. We may receive the equipment from Brazil, but in order for that to be productive, we need to fully utilise the resources like supporting our farmers and keep on developing our country. We have the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises and Co-operative Development under Hon. Nyoni, it is doing a fantastic job and we need to support it. We have had the private sector and the Government talking about developmental issues and even the labour laws which are being aligned to current situations.
We can talk of the foreign Direct Investment, as a country, if we have alarmists, we have people who are talking about war and corruption in Zimbabwe and definitely, that is one way of fighting off the investors. I read in the press that, we have people who wanted to illegally export US$80 million, they were husband and wife. They were arrested at the airport and, we have people who come from their countries to collect this money and take it out because the US dollar is an international currency. We need to have ways of fighting the corruption.
We have also talked about free trade zones and what we would now want to look at is that the resolutions made at the Africa Arab Conference is implemented. We need to fight the trade barriers which are existing so that we can be seen to be implementing what we discussed. Labour laws are being reviewed; investment policies are being relaxed so that they attract those people.
One thing that I am proud of is that, Zimbabwe has a lot of skilled people who can undertake any assignment which may be needed. We also have the Build, Own and Transfer (BOT) which is a way of attracting investors. Let us not only deal with corruption because at times, the way we talk about it is scaring away investors. We have the press which is usually talking falsehoods about Zimbabwe but this will be fighting off development partners who may want to come into our nation. We should be prepared for the motion which will be coming on corruption. I would like to thank Senator Mumvuri and Senator Khumalo for attending that conference and sharing what was stated at the conference. My main wish is that we need to implement what was agreed on at that conference so that when next we go to such conferences, we will be able to say as Zimbabwe, we implemented these resolutions.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 8th June, 2016.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE SENATE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): I rise to move that Order
of the Day, Number 5 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 1 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT AMENDMENT BILL [H.B. 14,
2015]
First Order read: Second Reading: Public Finance Management
Amendment Bill [H. B. 14, 2015].
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President, one of the
key objectives of the Government as enunciated in the new national Constitution is to ensure transparency and accountability in all financial matters.
Honourable Senators will be aware of recent reports by the Auditor
General highlighting concerns with respect to the management and accountability for public resources. Honourable Senators have also highlighted at different fora, their frustration over the apparent lack of response by Government to these important issues raised in the Auditor
General’s reports.
The Public Finance Management (PFM) Act [Chapter 22:19]
confers on the Treasury the responsibility to exercise general direction and control over public resources. To enable my Ministry to effectively discharge that mandate, it is necessary to develop and implement systems that ensure the effective use of and proper accountability for public resources. In this respect, strengthening the governing statute is critical to provide the necessary anchor for such systems.
Mr. President, in pursuance of the above objective, my Ministry is proposing to amend and review the PFM Act so as to further enhance the financial management provisions through the Bill that is before this august Senate for Honourable Members’ consideration. The Bill seeks to address concerns over public entities management of public resources by strengthening the sector ministries and Treasury’s financial oversight of those entities.
The review will also enhance governance arrangements over the statutory funds that are not adequately catered for in the current legislation.
Proposed Amendments
Pursuant to that objective, it is proposed that:
- Section 10 be amended to clarify the powers and responsibilities of accounting officers with respect to public entities and funds under their Ministries’ purview as follows:
- Responsibility to ensure that every public entity or fund under each Ministry’s purview has systems in place for planning, allocating, budgeting and reporting on the use of public resources and that public resources are safeguarded against loss.
- Requirement for accounting officers to review the recurrent and capital budgets of every public entity and/or fund and make recommendations to the appropriate Minister and the Minister on the approval of such budget proposals.
- Mandate to order an investigation into the affairs of a public entity and/or fund under the accounting officer’s Ministry.
- Power to call upon an accounting authority to provide explanations on issues affecting the public entity or fund.
- Authority to give direction which the accounting officer deems necessary for the efficient running of the public entity or fund.
- Section 46 be amended to require all public entities to submit annually, Results Based Management which are compliant with corporate and financial plans to the accounting officer and the Accountant General before the start of the financial year. The information will facilitate effective monitoring of public entity operations by the supervising Ministry and the Treasury.
- Section 47 be amended to make it mandatory for public entities to submit their budgets to the appropriate Minister for approval before the start of the financial year. The proposed provisions further compel the supervising Ministry to check for and ensure consistency of the annual corporate plans and budgets of public entities with the financial policies set by Government.
These provisions will ensure that the deployment of resources by public entities is in line with Government policy and targets their core mandates.
- Section 49 be amended to incorporate a provision requiring public entities to submit quarterly financial statements not later than 21 days after the end of the respective quarter. The introduction of the quarterly reporting requirement will substantially enhance the monitoring of their performance.
- A new Section 51A be inserted to clarify the separation of roles between the supervising Ministries and public entities, consistent with good corporate governance principles. The clause further provides for offences and penalties for contravention of its requirements.
- Section 82 be amended to include provisions that compel public entities to implement audit recommendations within timeframes agreed with the Auditor General.
Conclusion
Mr. President, as I indicated earlier on, the proposals that I am making in this Bill are critical to allow for the effective discharge of the mandate vested in my Ministry to manage public resources. I therefore, urge Honourable Senators of this august Senate to support these proposals to enhance the effective management of and accountability for public resources for the good of the nation. I need also add that the contributions by Honourable Senators that I listened to just now, are very much in sync with what we are proposing to do in this Bill. This Bill is seeking to address those many concerns and questions you are asking. This is an effort towards addressing those issues. Transparency and accountability need to be part and parcel of our accounting systems and culture. Mr. President Sir, for these reasons, I move that the Public Finance Management Amendment Bill (H.B.14, 2015), be now read a second time.
*HON. SEN. MAKORE: I want to thank the Minister for the Bill that he brought to us. If what we read is going to meet what you articulated, then it will be very good because what we want is accountability and transparency. If what you are saying Minister, is for us to have a way forward, we will be very happy. What we want is for the Bill to be implemented as it is because as you see us now, we have challenges yet things are there. What we want Minister is that no one will disagree. If this is going to minimise the virementing of funds, we would want to thank you for that.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I also want to thank the Minister for bringing in this Bill to this House. It is very true that the money that we handle as Zimbabwe – the people want to know how their funds are being used. They do not want to hear that their monies are being misused by Hon. Komichi, they will be really disgruntled.
What you referred to is transparency and accountability, which is what the people of Zimbabwe want to hear. If they hear that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development brought in the issue of accountability and that their money is being used properly, they are happy with that. It is very true that each year the Auditor General brings out audit reports which points out funds abuse but sure enough, people do not bring out responses. The Auditor-General clearly states that the Ministers are not responding. Is it that the Ministers are the ones that are misusing the money? We are happy that as Minister of Finance and Economic Development, you have come out clean that you are not the one who is misusing the funds. The explanations that you gave us Hon. Minister, strengthen the institutions because if the systems are weak, the issues that you have raised – the five Ministries block the holes that funds were being siphoned through. I think you are really trying hard to ensure that money is not siphoned out of this country. Your Ministry is going to be strengthened because of the efforts that you are putting in place. I also think this should cascade down to the public institutions that you run as a Ministry so that the way they use money is transparent. This will give us confidence as we are also keen to see corruption curbed through this way.
You also said there will be quarterly reviews of monitoring and evaluations. These will really help us because we will not give chance to people to misuse the funds as audits will be conducted on a quarterly basis. You should convict people who misuse funds. Thank you.
HON. SEN. B. SIBANDA: I also rise to thank the Minister for taking such action to ensure that Zimbabwe is put back on the right track. I just want to make one or two comments. If you look at what everybody else has said, the Auditor General has specifically, year in and year out, pointed out several if not numerous omissions in the management of finances. Over a period of 37 years, it says that the mismanagement of finance has now become a culture in this country. It therefore requires a paradigm shift in the words of the Hon. Sen, Chief Charumbira and massive education of our population. I hope that a statutory instrument to deal with that, if not contained in the Bill, will be in place to address that.
Secondly, where performance is below expectation, there must be sanctions. Once again, without being verbose, I look forward to instruments that put into place sanctions for deviation from the standard. Third and lastly, Minister you talked about performance related handling of finances. I am glad that we are moving towards world standards. There is no money or congratulation for any act that is not performance based in today’s world. It makes a difference from those who remain static and those who move forward. With those words, I thank once again the Minister for taking such action but it is the auctioning of the Bill that is going to make the difference. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMHINI: Thank you Minister, for bringing in a good Bill. I just want to say to the Minister that the issue of quarterly reports has always been there in place but it was not being put into practice. I support what Sen. Sibanda said, that we should put in place laws specifying what the Minister or Government will do if laws are not implemented. What is lacking is implementation to get results and not laws. So, you can bring a good Bill like this but we have the same challenge that if the Auditor General points out the challenges that she will have come across, nothing happens to the people, so we will not have done anything. I also believe that this Bill is going to help us when it comes to the separation of powers between the Executive, Legislature and Judiciary, so that there is no interference from any of the three arms of the State so that if money is being misused, Parliament should take steps so that the money should be returned. However, if the Government is protecting people, it means that Parliament would not have work to do because those who will be stealing, there will be nothing to stop them from stealing. The laws should give us results.
Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MANYERUKE: Thank you Mr. President. I have
stood up to thank the Minister for this Bill. We want to thank you for
the hard work that you do so that we live well as Zimbabweans. I have stood up just to support this Bill. Thank you.
+ HON. SEN. KHUMALO: I would like to add my voice on the motion that was tabled in this Senate. My concern is why is it all our parastatals are always asking for money from Government and we do not see them saying we want to help the Government, especially if they have shortage of revenue inflow. I remember in 2008 we saw in other countries parastatals carrying out projects that could generate income and they were able to help their government when they were in crisis. My question is, why can we not have the same in Zimbabwe, whereby if there is cash shortage in banks, we have our parastatals having to bail out our Government?
If our parastatals always have to borrow or be assisted by the Government and they cannot generate revenue for themselves, then we are better off closing them. Can they be the ones who bail out even our banks? Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President for
according me this opportunity. I want to thank the Minister and assure him that we are behind him and support him. This has come late. He should have done it yesterday so that our country will be helped. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Thank you very much Mr.
President Sir and I want to thank all Hon. Senators who have contributed and who are supporting the Bill. I do not think there is any other way to support the Bill because the Bill, like I pointed out in my Second
Reading speech, is calling for transparency.
When I am confronted with concerns over corruption, the response I always give, drawing from my previous experience as a Attorney General, is that corruption is a very different crime from all other crimes in that the briber and the bribed have both benefited and so between those two, you do not expect them to go and report what they have done, unless someone discovers what they have done. So, they will not report each other. The only time when they report each other is when one has been shortchanged only.
So, the point I am making here is we can talk until our voices are hoarse about fighting corruption. Until those two come out and report each other, we are wasting our time. The fight against corruption should be through installing and establishing systems that make it difficult for people to steal. If institutions have systems in terms of transparency and accountability, in terms of supervision and monitoring by the boards; the management being monitored by the board, the board being monitored by the line Ministry. If questions are asked constantly throughout, it becomes difficult for anyone to steal and I think Senator Komichi in a graphic way got to something like that, that if we are going to ask for reviews quarterly, it may be very difficult to hide anything that has been done in three months.
Also, you find sometimes in a lot of institutions people refuse to go on leave, people refuse to be promoted because they know that if they are promoted, someone will come and see what they were doing. So, we need to put these systems in place and this Bill is all about doing that.
So, I want to thank Senator Makore for your support and Senator Komichi, again, I want to thank you for your support.
The issue about auditor’s reports, as we all know, year in, year out the Auditor General makes reports which are adverse against administration of our public resources and it has been in the past that we do nothing, but from now on we are beginning to put in place, in the
Treasury, in the Accountant General’s Office, units which will be dedicated because you need a lot of capacity first to go through what the Auditor General has said. You do not just end where what the Auditor General has said, you have to go behind what the Auditor General has said in terms of examination of the financial accounts and systems which have been queried by the Auditor General.
Often, the Auditor General may also be mistaken, so the units which I am establishing in my Ministry will go through each report and have an independent opinion, independent of what the Auditor General has said. If we agree with the Auditor General, recommend what measures to take against an individual or against an institution. That is essentially what we are seeking to do and the amendments will bolster that position as we see it.
We also find that year in year out, most parastatals submit their annual statements and accounts to this Parliament and none of us read them, yet imbedded in those reports are some of the malpractices that you are complaining about. Because they were published, because you have not queried them, they are legitimated. They assume a degree of legitimacy and authenticity. So, it is also important that we build capacity, not just within my Ministry, but also within Parliament, to have a department which examines and studies these financial statements to understand what they mean. What normally is thrown up is basically that sometimes the payroll has no relationship at all to the revenue that the parastatal is receiving. They are paying themselves more than what they are receiving, something that, if not corruption, it is very bad management. So, these are the issues that we hope we can tease out when in fact these units are established in my Ministry.
Again, do not always rush to seek arrests. Generally, like I said, a lot of arrests sometimes are made before the actual investigation is done. Then what happens is that you go to court, you have no case. It does not do well to the public. When the public see people being arrested, they have already convicted them, generally, when they see them go scot free, that is when they say, how can they set free corrupt people, when in fact the investigations had not been done as thoroughly as they should do. So, there is no merit sometimes in rushing to arrest, unless a prima facie case has been established. Generally, given my background, I am always not there to rush to seek arrests, I always ask are investigations being undertaken thoroughly. If they are not, I just get worried and I will not approve premature arrest of people when the investigations have not yet been undertaken and established, a prima facie case.
I also want to thank Hon. Sen. Sibanda for the support. The paradigm shift we need in our economy is basically to move away from a culture that you can be given for free. That culture is a corrupt culture – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]- It is in a way a corrupt culture that things can just happen to you, you do not need to work, things will just wake up one morning, outside your door, there is a Mercedes Benz and so on - [ Laughter.] – that basically is what breeds culture. People having a culture that they do not want to work, they want benefits which they have not worked for. We need to move the mindset of our people away from that culture. There is nothing for free.
Mr. President, you find it, all across, even in terms of the way boards sometimes are set up, we look after our relations, friends, who have no capacity to perform the work, whose main objective is to say how much are the board’s allowances? We cannot run an economy like that; we cannot run our statutory corporations in that fashion. We have to appoint people who have capacity to manage people who can understand complex institutions and be able to add value and not to come as their primary objective to earn board fees.
I agree with Hon. Sen. Sibanda with respect to that performance must be rewarded in the same way that we are saying we should not reward laziness and so on. Correspondingly, we should reward performance, good performance should have a reward. In the Bill that we are going to bring, I am going to bring Public Corporate Governance Bill. These are some of the issues that we are dealing with, issues to do with appointment of board members, reporting procedures; whom to report to. We must make people accountable.
Mr. President, if people take decisions, good or bad, they must be accountable. If they are good, we must praise them, if they are bad, we must censor them. So I hope that with that Bill, it will also receive the support of Hon. Senators. Senator Chimhini, the Bill is also setting separation of roles, it is very clear but not the roles that need to be clarified. These are the roles between the Minister and the Board, the Board and Management. Those roles need to be clarified. Sometimes, you find some of us as Ministers, you give instruction to management, going behind a board, that is not good corporate governance. All instructions, if you have any policy issues, you discuss with the board. That is also the culture that we want to inculcate in the management of our parastatals.
Mr. President, someone must be accountable. The board is accountable for overseeing management. If they do not do their job properly, they should be fired by the Minister without any equivocation, in the same way that if the Minister is not performing, he can also lose his job. So, those roles need to be clarified. The roles between the Executive and Parliament, I think those are very clear. Parliament does not execute, does not do executive functions, that is the responsibility of Ministers. But you have a role to expose me if I have done something irregular, it is your duty, if you do not do that, you are failing in that duty. So, you have a role to examine how I perform my functions, if there is anything irregular it is the role of this august House to expose it so that remedial action can be taken. I think we need to emphasise again and again those separation of roles. If you then as august House, try to do the job of the Minister, then we should clarify and point out, that, no, your role begins here and ends there and it is my role now to do the actual job. But as I am doing my actual job, you can ask me questions, why have I done it in that manner and then be able to point out that the manner that I have discharged my function is not worth of me as
Minister.
Mr. President, those are the issues that I think should be addressed. Hon. Senators Manyeruke and Machingaifa, thank you very much for your unqualified support. Hon. Senator Khumalo, to the extent that I understood it, you are worried about our capacity to monitor state-owned enterprises. You are also worried about the wastage of resources by state enterprises. Those are some of the issues that we are grappling with. We cannot correct everything overnight. What in fact Hon. Senators need to know is that we have something like 91 state-owned enterprises. Some of them are commercial and some of them regulatory. The challenge usually is not with the regulatory state-owned enterprises, they are to do with your commercial enterprises, National Railways, Air Zimbabwe, ARDA and Cold Storage. Those state enterprises, wholly owned by State but doing commercial work, in fact filling a void in the commercial sector. That is where our major challenge is.
Now, we then decided as Government that we identify ten critical ones which, if addressed can help turn around the economic fortunes of the country. So, we identified ten for now. If we spend our energies over a broad range of State enterprises, we will end up not achieving anything. It is like the Shona proverb, kudzingirira tsuro mbiri, hapana yaunobata. So we decided that we chase after the 10 key State enterprises, some of which have already been taken care of are the National Railways of Zimbabwe (NRZ), ARDA and the Grain Marketing Board (GMB). In terms of our reform agenda, we are targeting those enterprises. We begun by carrying out forensic audits of those enterprises so that we understand what has been going on with them.
I want to assure you that we are very much seized to address the concerns you raise. I only want to caution and say it cannot be done overnight. It is a process and we are clearly equal to the task. Mr.
President Sir, with that response, I once again want to thank Hon.
Senators for their support and assure them that we will do our best to ensure transparency and accountability. I therefore move that the Public Finance Management Amendment Bill [H.B. 14, 2015] be now read a second time.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON.
SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Thank you Minister, I think you deserve a thunderous applause in the spirit you spared in explaining these issues. I could not believe it was a Minister who was showing frustration and eagerness to try and correct some of the wrongs that we have in our systems. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.]. - Most Ministers are very defensive when they come here chero pakashata vachingotukirira vanhu but you were with the Senate. You were with everybody that we need to do the correct things. I think you have encouraged this Senate a lot, that is why I am saying you deserve another round of thunderous applause. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear,
hear] -
Minister, your face is also very bright and smart. It inspires confidence in the Senate that the economy will do better very soon. It appears you are confident something good is going to happen and we will get out of the existing cash crisis. Again another round of applause.
– [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear!] -
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 14,
2015]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 7 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave forthwith.
THIRD READING
PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 14,
2015]
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. President Sir, I accordingly move that the Public Finance Management Amendment Bill
[H. B. 14, 2015] be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA), the Senate
adjourned at Nineteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 22nd June, 2016
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE in the
Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF
THE SENATE
PARTNERSHIP TO PROVIDE MEDICAL SERVICES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE: I would
like to inform the Senate that Dr. Moses Chiwanza, a medical doctor would like to partner with Hon. Members to provide medical services to the less privileged in their constituencies who cannot access medical services on time; if at all due to lack of financial resources or long distances they may have to travel, particularly in rural areas. Members are encouraged to meet with Dr. Chiwanza who has set up a desk at the Members’ Dining Room. He will be here today, Wednesday, 22nd June,
2016 and Thursday, 23rd June, 2016.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TAWENGWA: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
HON. SEN. MASUKU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd June, 2016.
MOTION
REPORT ON THE TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADERSHIP
SEMINAR HELD AT KENYATTA UNIVERSITY
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report on Transformational Leadership Seminar held at Kenyatta University in
Nairobi, Kenya held from 13th to 19th September, 2015.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MAWIRE: Thank you Mr. President for according me this opportunity to add my voice on this report which was moved by
Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa and seconded by Hon. Sen. Ncube. Mr. President, I feel proud of this report. Firstly, before I say anything, I want to thank the Government of Zimbabwe that keeps on spearheading the honour of women and supporting them as we go out in other countries to learn a lot of things. From the time the report was tabled in this House, I heard a lot of things that were said in the report which showed that Zimbabwe when it comes to gender issues, In the SADC we are ahead. Zimbabwe was the first country to talk about gender issues in the SADC.
I want to thank our President and the nation at large that when they started about these gender issues, we got a lot of support from our chiefs, fathers and the youth. They supported their mothers and unsure that the ground is level. Even on the girl child, when we look closely, in Zimbabwe what was being articulated yesterday, it shows that we are way ahead. Long back in this country, on gender issues, women were not allowed to stand in front of men, take chieftainship, as leaders or speaking in front of men. Our chiefs and men realised that women are very important and they played an important role even in the liberation struggle. When it comes to gender issues, we want to say that Zimbabwe should keep up the good work of up lifting their women. Looking at the number of women in Parliament, we see that Zimbabwe is way ahead. In other countries, they have less numbers whereas we are more than a hundred in Parliament.
They also looked at women empowerment. Many people think that empowerment is just giving people money but the way that you uplift us, you are empowering us. If you look at the word ‘woman’ there are a lot of things embedded in this. A woman is a person who nurses, an organiser and she uplifts the home. If there are only men at a homestead, that homestead does not look like a home. If you educate a woman, you
would have done a great thing. We heard about peace and security issues. For a country to be at peace and have security; it is because of the mothers. If women become stupid, the country will not thrive but if women are educated and learn leadership skills, the country will go forward. We should continue learning and being educated and also learn from other countries.
We also want to thank the women that went to Kenya. I was not part of the group but from the contributions yesterday were very powerful, which means that people learnt a lot within that week. When they were debating, we really felt proud because women were contributing very strongly; even Senator Mumvuri and the chiefs over there, really supported the report. If you see men supporting women, you feel proud and we should unite as women.
They also talked about the political situation in other countries but I want to thank the women in this country and say that we might be at loggerheads in this Senate but we are united out there and we work together. When it comes to political issues, we now know and we do not lie if we are competing with men; that is why they hate us because we do not use money but we use to truth when we are campaigning. We do not give empty promises like what men do. We want to thank our women on
that.
What I want to say is that we are asking both the men and women in this Senate who were not part of the delegation that the reports we are getting from others throughout the world, assist in the upliftment of women. So we should be enlightened and open our eyes and be accommodative of new ideas that come from others. We should support one another. We were told that when it comes to elections, we are on the forefront of spearheading men’s ideas instead of supporting fellow women. It is high time that we started supporting our own. We should learn from the support that we are getting from other countries or even from our country. The men in this country have accepted that they should support us.
We were also told about resources, yes, it is very true and it is painful that for all this to happen, we need resources. We are saying very soon we will be going for the budget seminar, so we are pleading with both the men and women that we should contribute actively. When analysing the budget, I think we should speak with one voice that the women should be allocated more resources so that they can be able to spearhead their projects and also go out and carry developmental projects.
Even if you look at SMEs, you see that women are really doing very well. Women are now doing the work which was previously done by men. I urge all the men to support us when it comes to allocation of resources during budget formulation.
I would want to thank the chiefs because for this to happen, it is because of you the custodians of the land. We thank you because you were quick to accept us although I know that in Chipinge they were lagging behind because they did not support the idea of women addressing men but they are now speaking with one voice. We want to thank you chiefs for supporting us because there is peace and tranquility in the country.
In conclusion, I want to say to the Chairperson of the Women’s Caucus that we received the report that you tabled before this Senate with joy but the challenge that is before us is that women in the rural areas do not have this information. This information is mainly accessed by women who are in leadership positions and they are the only ones who are aware of these issues. If it were possible, I think the Government should fund women Parliamentarians so that we can go to the rural areas and educate fellow our women. Even in urban centres, there are some women who are ignorant about these issues.
I remember that when we held a workshop in Kadoma on family law, we learnt quite a lot that even some of us who are in towns were ignorant about some of the issues. I think we should have more awareness campaigns of women who are outside this Senate. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MLOTSHWA: I thank you Mr. President. I stand to support and appreciate the report which was moved yesterday by Senator Mutsvangwa and seconded by Senator Ncube. It is unfortunate that we do not have the report in our pigeon holes and it is difficult to capture everything that she said because it would have helped us to learn from what they got in Kenya. Maybe we will get the report in the Hansard. It is a very good opportunity for us as women of this Parliament who are members of the Zimbabwe Women Parliamentary Caucus to do an introspection of ourselves after hearing all the good things that were in the modules that she presented. It is found in us women because she even said that the presenter said that women look down upon themselves and whatever progress they make is affected by other women. I do not think that we can hide behind a finger because we have enough evidence to show that women do not support each other when it comes to the development and empowerment of other women.
On trips that we have as women, it is unfortunate that my name was on the list of participants to go to Kenya but I did not make it. I was phoned by our office that I should bring my passport, I did but I was told that no, no, you are now going to Zambia. I said it is fine but I was moved again. I know very well that there are no men that sit and decide on the list of women that go on trips. It is women that do it on behalf of other women. The segregation or exclusion of other people by women is really an issue that we should talk about because if we sweep it under the carpet, then it will not be solved.
At times we say the political patronage also is affecting us as women because when you are dealing with issues, you think that other women do not matter in developmental programmes that affect the world of women. After I listened to other Senators contribute, I was trying to say after getting all this information from the workshops in Kenya and Zambia, did we come out any different because we should talk about it and see whether we are doing differently after getting that information, because information is power.
In the other workshops during the 7th Parliament, we were given somebody to coach us on grooming and decorum. I heard Hon, Sen. Ncube talking about colours of clothing that are supposed to be worn and whether to wear certain types of hats or not. I however, believe that maybe the person who wrote that module has a different perspective and a different culture from ours, so we cannot be one and the same. Even structure wise or complexion, we are different and hence we cannot dress in the same clothes. The things that we like are also very different. The only people that I have seen that look almost the same are the Chinese. We, on the other hand are uniquely different in everything. We also have our own cultures to maintain. If my Ndebele culture says a black hat is a hat that is good for me, then I will wear that hat because that is who I am.
I believe that when people vote for you, they vote for who you are before you are even given all this information. It means they will have seen something in you before this other information that you are given at various workshops. So, if you change too much and become too different from the people that voted you into power you then lose the electorate because you will be too different from them. What they identified in you when they voted you in for the first time was their culture. So do not change it too much.
Mr. President, it is very good to have an opportunity to talk about these things and to benefit from the report because some of us never had the chance to go there. Other caucuses in Africa - we are lucky at times that we go to the international fora and we ask how other caucuses do their things. They make sure that when they are giving trips, they do not give to those people who have an opportunity to travel in other quotas. They make sure they give the poor and the vulnerable because in our caucus here, if you put all of us, the hundred and something that we are, you will find that there are other women that will never go anywhere because the people who are selecting in the other departments look at certain things. So, why do we not use the same approach as that used by other African women Caucuses to give the person who is not appealing to anybody the chance to fly to New York? Even if those that have the intellectual capacity to go there, when they come back, they will have benefitted in their individual capacity because all the other women do not use whatever knowledge they will have gained there. Whatever information they learn is for their own personal use. So, why not empower that poor woman and make her fly so that at least she sees the world and her mind opens and gathers new information.
In the other women forum that I attended, this other woman was saying that at times Women’s Caucus become women kokayi because it does not really show that these women need that chance to group and push together. The Women’s Caucus is for women to meet and push together but now, if women are not meeting and pushing together it becomes women kokayi. People with minds observe and see that if you look at our women champions, on the issues of emancipation of other women, they are also the same people that discriminate against other women. If you look at why we are not having peace, you will find that in the areas where there is conflict, contestation or elections, our women champions are silent when the other women are suffering. You will find that during elections, people’s houses are burnt but where will be the women that are involved and supposed to cool the men down and say
‘you cannot do it that way?’
Mr. President, let me give another simple example. If any woman discovers that her husband is going out with another woman, they will even hire thugs to go and deal with that woman. What you forget is that the same woman also wants what you saw and want in that man. So, as women, we must really talk about these issues. We cannot hide the issues anymore because that is exactly what we do. So, what are we talking about? These young women that emulate us, when we are modeling a life of women who are developed, what will they say about us? We read in the papers that this woman did this to that woman. Which woman has ever, after hearing that the husband is going out with somebody, did not do something about it to the other woman and not to the man? Mr. President, we must walk the talk because if we just talk and not walk it, it will not do anything to the vision. We have a vision for women to do better and differently. It is the small things that will benefit the communities. You cannot be seen to be doing good in the papers while in real life you do bad things. It then becomes very difficult for people to believe.
Let me conclude by saying that the module that was presented was very good, but I think that as women of Zimbabwe, we will benefit if we pick only that information that is relevant to us as a nation. As a person, I will pick a few things and not all of them because it depends on what I
think. At times when I sit down and say this culture is wrong, I must be sure that it is relevant to all the other cultures, otherwise it will be misleading to believe that all the colours that I heard were wrong are really wrong because to me, some of them are alright as they are. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF CHIDUKU: Thank you Mr. President for
according me this opportunity to debate. I rise to support the motion that was brought in by Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa seconded by Senator Ncube. This is a very important issue which needs all of us to be united. The people that went to Kenya, think that they learnt a lot from there but we talk a lot about those issues here in Zimbabwe. They came with that information because they were there and they were being told by other people. The first thing that I want the women to know is that the men in Zimbabwe and the Government of Zimbabwe love Zimbabwean women very much. You said that a lot of the things that we do to honour our women in Zimbabwe are not observed in Kenya. The positions that we bestow upon you in Zimbabwe are not in other countries. You also said that you did not know that the thing that really made you happy was here also, that was the issue of dress code.
Here we always refer to your dressing as women but when we say that you raise your eyebrows yet when it was being articulated in Kenya, you thought it was very important. For a country to go astray or become poor is when women walk about undressed, the country will be very poor.
So we appreciate the fact that a prophet has no honour in his hometown. You were taught things that we always teach you here. Next time when you go out, do not forget the culture in your own country.
I remember the year when women first went to Beijing and a lot of homes were broken because the women could not teach other women good culture. They failed to reach married women should behave and take care of their families. If we look at our homesteads or those who have homes, the mother is the owner of the home and if the mother does not look after the home well there, will be so many problems and challenges. That is why we always refer to you as the owners of the homes then you say that men folk are oppressing you.
There are certain things that were talked about which I thought were not of our culture. Like when they said they saw a picture of a woman breastfeeding a goat and baby and they said it is love but that is not our culture. If you are found at the kraal head feeding an animal, you will be labeled a witch, so we do not want such traditions, but some of the things that you learnt are very good.
Aspects to emanate include that you should have big ears and a small mouth when you are a leader, so that you listen more and be slow to answer. In the homes if you see me just listening and not answering back you say that this husband is ignoring me, he does not answer but that will not be the case. So next time if there is another outgoing delegation, when you say gender, I think we should go as a mixed group consisting of both men and women so that we come and teach our people together. However, men do not attend gender seminars - yet gender refers to men, women and children but when it comes to site seeing you just appoint women and it is no longer gender.
We really want to support you women and as chiefs we used to move around with women and that Bill passed because of us chiefs. We called you to our provinces when you were talking to people but now you want to work in isolation of men. So when we look at you, we realise that you will not go far. We really want you to go far but when you are given positions of leadership what you do, sometimes we regret as men.
When we attend meetings, we should ask each other before leaving our homes how presentable we are. When we talk about it, you claim we are not able to look after our women, which is not true. You know that when you look at these dance shows, a woman who is said to be dancing well is because they will not be wearing any clothes yet men will be dancing in their suites, yet a woman has to be naked in order for her dancing to be acknowledged.
The women in this august Senate are mature women we want you to teach the people our good culture when you go out there to the rural areas so that we progress as a nation. When you are standing up people will say, the Senator is speaking not teaching people the wrong stuff when you are out there and when they see you, you are the opposite of what you were articulating. We do not want that, we want our country to follow our traditions and culture.
Most of the time when we learn foreign cultures, I think we should evaluate it with our own culture, if they are inconsistent then we can panel beat our culture. If the foreign culture is inconsistent to our culture, just take the good and ignore the bad. Do not just embrace everything because some of the cultures are shameful and we will be wondering where you will implement them because you are married. Like when you were elected to Parliament, you first spoke to your spouses before coming here and they agreed. Now that you are in Parliament, you should act accordingly and reflect your leadership qualities especially during gatherings, you should teach young women not to destroy their homes. If you look at our courts as chiefs, we are always presiding over cases of young women who are being divorced by their husbands and the people spearheading the divorces are the mother-in-law. You talk of love yet you forget that daughter-in-law belongs to another woman. We preside over such cases a lot and I have never come across a case where someone says that the father-in-law does not want me. Most of the time the mother-inlaw will say that they should leave their home and go wherever they want, forgetting that is another woman’s child. So how do you love one another as women?
We are saying women should love one another. Real women who stay with their in-laws cannot spend six months in the same house because women cannot live together. I do not know whether this is due to the cooking style, so do not lie to us that you want to love one another. We know that you do not love one another. There is an Hon. Member who said you do not love one another Chief Musarurwa yesterday also said the same sentiments and I am also adding my voice to that.
Mr. President, I want to thank you for affording me this opportunity. I am very grateful to the head of delegation. You did a good job but it should not end in this House, it should go down to the grassroots where the people are. If you come and say you want to meet the ladies in our areas, we would want to know whether you are talking about how they can build their homes. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MASHAVAKURE: Thank you Mr. President, for
affording me this opportunity to add my voice on this interesting motion.
I want to thank Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa and Hon. Sen. Ncube for tabling such a good report on the good things that they learnt in Kenya. I had a friend who used to tell me that nice things are found in other places. Those who have been teachers before know that there are what we call teaching methods or techniques and there are a lot of things on how to teach people. This is one of the techniques of taking people out and take them far away. They can learn quite a lot. It would be good if we can get such methods where people can really learn.
There is one thing that I did not get and I think they forgot it. There are some disabled women and girls who are in their midst and in their module, nothing of that sort was articulated – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - So, I think wherever they meet as women, even as men when you go to your constituencies or other forums, where you talk about men or women only, you should take into cognisance that there are some disabled people. Those who teach them should also be reminded that they add a module on plenary sessions so that those issues will be articulated.
I think you remember that in other countries in SADC and East Africa, people who are disabled, for example the albinos, people use them for rituals. There are also women amongst them who are victims of such practices. Therefore, lessons on disability and their importance should be articulated as well. When you go for other sessions, I think you should remind the facilitators that they should also take cognisance of the disabled. You should also remember men who have disability. This is because a tree has twigs and big branches. So, I think it will help us as a nation. We will build our nation together.
I am very happy that this method of taking them far away has really inspired them. If they include all these points, I think they will be inspired. On the next trip when they go out, I think this time they should go as far as Alexandra and they will be gurus when they come back.
Thank you.
+HON. SEN. D.T. KHUMALO: I thank you Mr. President, for giving me this opportunity to debate on this matter, where the Women Caucus went to Kenya to learn on leadership and helping themselves.
Firstly, I will start by speaking on the word ‘gender.’ Initially, we did not understand this word. This is why when we came from Beijing, we were confrontational with our spouses because we did not understand that term – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] - When I came back to Zimbabwe, I was surprised on how the gender issue was being handled because I was coming from a place where gender should help men. They are trying to develop people so that they can be the same. I was surprised when I saw what was obtaining in the country because we did not understand the term gender.
I believe you can now see that we have changed and we now understand that in Khumalo’s homestead, I should respect him. Gender issues are there to help him so that he allows me to go and look for work. The homestead belongs to him; he is in charge. That we did not understand then, things are learnt. Those who went out also brought us something very good that we should not only look at gender issues. We also learnt on how to present ourselves when we are going to meet the public. She said that if you want to be presentable, you should not put on a yellow hat.
This made me remember my mother. She liked to put on her yellow hat even if she was going to the Sabbath. People would say, how marvelous she looked. That indicates that where we are going, we should be careful and be selective on what we pick because some of these things are not acceptable in our areas. We should appreciate that. We should be careful that when we go to other countries, we should leave our yellow and black hats home.
However, I am of the view that, as long as you have a head gear it is okay. Particularly here in Parliament, our dress code is good. It appears to me that women here are conscious of how they dress. They are respectable women and we should maintain that. We are trying as women to be respectable in front of men so that in whatever we do, they see a respectable woman, a woman of dignity and beauty. We should not completely cover our legs. They should be seen because they are beautiful. We know in our culture the way we should dress. Please, let us accept our own culture so that we push it ahead and capitalise.
Yesterday evening, I realised that we in Zimbabwe are far much ahead. I was watching Al-Jazeera TV. They were indicating a problem women in Malawi. We are happy that when we are at a meeting from different countries, they think about what they know about a particular area. They give advice as well on that particular area. So, we are different on how we dress, walk and navigate.
Mr. President, what I observe as a problem personally is here at Parliament. We still have a problem that because of coming from different political parties, we will not want to do things together. We should fight against that as women. We should look at one thing. Are we the majority or the minority because if we fail to respect each other now, we will not be able to respect each other. It is true that women fight; men also do fight but it is said that men have that right to fight. Men disagree and fight during election campaigns. When women disagree, it becomes a big issue. No, women – let us not disagree with each other. We should not hate each other, no, no! We hate each other just like men do because during the election time, they also fight. On that basis, I am not saying we should fight; we should not denigrate ourselves.
Mr. President, I go further and say on the issue of fighting, we should look at rights here at Parliament. When we go out, there should be representatives here in Parliament. Most of the times, I am used and source for financial resources but when I get those financial resources, I get dropped from that programme and I no longer travel. This has happened. When resources are being looked for all the parties are involved yet at the last minute, I get dropped and am replaced with someone. No, women, please stop that. Please leave me alone. It is not good for me to go and get a visa and be dropped at the last minute. That should stop. I do not want to travel with you anymore. Why did you take me if you are saying I am from a minority party? I request you not to do that. Let us respect each other and know each other.
Mr. President, probably men also do the same but I am requesting you that we should do the right thing. Do not take me for granted, I am talking to you nicely and I am requesting you not to do that to me again. Let us respect each other. People say I should have talked about this in the Caucus, but I have realised that the Caucus has dropped me many times. Therefore, I have to ask why I was being left out. I am requesting you, that we work harmoniously. That is how women work and that is their leadership; whether they are being used by men, I do not know. Please, let us work together and further our interests. I am not alleging that you are being used by men because I do not know them. I know those who agreed that I should be dropped. Please let us not drop each other.
Mr. President, the leadership which was talked about here, I believe we will follow it and understand that we should not affect other women; we should work and walk nicely. We should follow the types of leadership qualities that were explained to us which are democratic, laissez-faire et cetera. We should educate each other so that we can acquire the leadership qualities and work together in unity. I thank the ladies who went to Kenya and came with this report.
*HON. SEN. MACHINGAIFA: Thank you Mr. President, for
affording me this opportunity. I want to support this report on
Transformational Leadership Seminar held at Kenyatta University in
Nairobi, which started on the 13th to 19th September, 2015 in Nairobi Kenya. I am so happy. Firstly, I want to thank our father, the leader of this country, President Mugabe who spearheads our relationship with other countries and if our country is at peace, then we are able to relate with other countries. If we are at war, internally we will not be able to go to other countries. So, we have travelled to a lot of countries because our father likes peace, that is why we can travel to other countries.
Mr. President, yesterday I was so happy. Since I came into this House, I have never seen a motion so popular like this one. Hon. Senators behaved as if they were buying sweets. It was a good motion. I think those Members who went there did a good job in telling us what they came across. So, I have also stood up to support what they said. If that is the case, then it is a good thing. When they are going to attend the women’s caucuses, I do not know whether they carry books from here to show them that what they talked about in those countries and the things that they learnt there, they also get this from this country.
I was happy when the issue of dressing was touched on because this issue of dressing did not start today. We have the late Mai Sally Mugabe, who went to be with the Lord. She really wanted women to dress well. Coming back to the issue on colours, I have come across even some books that when you are called for a job interview, there are certain ways that you should dress. If you dress colourfully, you disturb the people who will be interviewing you; this was revealed in the books that we were reading. Honestly, as leaders, when we visit other countries and encounter these things, we should share it in this House. I also want to give another example of business, if you build a shop, upon opening it, when you give tokens of appreciation to your customers in the form of a match box or a sweet, if you stop the culture, customers stop buying from your shop and you become insolvent. This means that once you begin practicing a particular culture, it should continue until the end.
Mr. President, I was so happy when I heard them saying that as they were discussing amongst themselves as women on employment creation and delivery in the civil service, they indicated that it was not only the women who were empowered, but the men are also included and there is competition, which is healthy. I will also give an example which I heard from my father when I was in my rural area; he said that when a woman dies, women sleep in the same house with that corpse. In the same vein, if a man dies, it is still women who sleep in the shelter housing the corpse. Why do you not make men to sleep in the house sheltering the corpse when a man would have died? Why is it that women sleep in that room all the time? I am saying this in relation to the issue of gender which was referred to before, that people were unable to define the term gender.
Mr. President, I would like to thank you very much because the Committee on gender which travelled to Kenya were able to listen attentively and brought us words of wisdom. Those who were leading the delegation indicated that they felt honoured because they were able to relate the issues there with what is happening back home. If you travel and you hear some issues being discussed and you feel that you are ahead of them, you are implored to share the experiences of where you are coming from in terms of the unity you enjoy. Here in Zimbabwe we have our President, Cde. Mugabe, who accommodated his people both men and women. I am so glad to note that we are now having more women working in different trades. This means that those who travel will be proud to share their story and say; where we are coming from different leadership positions are held by women. Mr. President, let me take this opportunity to thank those who visited this country. We listened to what you reported to us and we want to thank you so that when you go back, you will bring us a report on what will have happened there and how others would have embraced our story. On the other hand, we also want to know what others would have said and how many would have contributed so that it becomes progressive and fruitful. Thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. MALULEKE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add a few words on this motion which was tabled by Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa and seconded by Hon. Sen. Ncube. Firstly, I would like to thank the Government of President Mugabe for understanding the plight of women. At first it was quota system, we made several appeals and it was increased to a 50:50 representation. We are also not happy with the two terms which we were given, we want more terms to be added – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] – on the same note, I would also like to thank the Government for facilitating the travelling of many women, 20 delegates, to represent us at this seminar in Kenya.
The first thing that really made me happy was that they were warmly welcomed and Zimbabwe was honoured for having more women representatives in Parliament. There are a lot of people who debated; I
will just talk on what I grasped yesterday. They said that for you to be a good leader, you should be seen by your fruits and you should have a vision in front of you. You should also have a work plan for your constituency. This really touched me because all of us here were gifted in certain areas and that is why we are leaders. All of us know that as women, we were not allowed to go to school. However, God has a plan for us to go to school and end up in this House even if we did not know. So, that is one of the things that God has given us so that we will become leaders. In this vein, I want all of you to know that we were given these positions by God through our parents and we should safe-guard our morals as women and leaders. When we come here and go back to our homes, our first port of call is our homes. Let us be honest by telling others the truth on what ould have happened here. This means that leadership begins at home before reaching out to the electorate and those whom we lead in our constituencies.
They told us that they were taught about modules, beginning with Module one, two and three on leadership. Some of us who are still serving our first term of office are learning a lot and we should listen very careful so that we put it into practice when we go back to our constituencies. All those modules that they learnt and were teaching us; the auto, demo, laissez faire or fairness, these are the things that we are being taught so that we know that when we hold meetings with the electorate, they will criticise what you would have said; whether what you said was to uplift other women or not. For example, we all know that those who intend to uplift fellow women might ask them to approach her on the quails project. We should be proud of such projects because these are the resources of this country and we learnt it from other countries that we should uplift our fellow women. That is what it takes to be a good leader and not just take a back seat. As a leader, you should not be known by moving around the village asking for salt.
When we are in this august House, we should truly love each other and even share ideas on how best to improve our constituencies. Our experts as Parliament should be utilised by Hon. Members when they are seized with projects which require their technical expertise. We should also feel free to consult them so that they can even write project proposals on our behalf. We must take advantage of the plea by the Speaker of the National Assembly that as women-folk, we should go to school. How many went to school in this Parliament. The people from the Women’s University came here looking for students to enrol at their university but how many of us are there? Here, I am writing my ‘O’ levels but I think the two subjects that I sat for in June this year will help me a lot to obtain a full certificate. We should encourage each other as women to campaign peacefully when it is election time. We should not destroy each other but rather encourage each other because there are some women who are capable. When those women join the Senate or National Assembly, they can help us with whatever they are capable of because consequently these women can be chosen to become ministers. We need more women ministers and few deputies because women are very good when it comes to delivering.
Women are not corrupt because they do their work well. Let me give an example of how useful women are. If a woman is pregnant and knocks at your door during the night seeking assistance, no sane woman can turn away a fellow woman. She will wake up no matter the circumstances. Rich or poor, the women can assist each other so that the baby can be delivered safely. That is one aspect that is embedded in us as women, the spirit to nurture. That is one thing that I have learnt that whether you are educated or not, we are very wise when it comes to that.
It is God given. That is one thing that uplifts us as women.
When you are going about your usual business in your constituency, ask yourself what type of a leader you are. You should look at the way you deliver your speech and see whether you are presentable. Truly speaking, when you go to places like Malipati wearing a pair of trousers and you want to address a gathering of men, they will not listen to you because they will be shy but if you go there dressed as a woman in a nice dress, they will listen to you. We should know how to dress when we go out into the rural areas because there are certain values that are observed in those areas through the chiefs.
As a leader, you should know the type of women that you are leading and be sensitive to their needs. We should also listen to other women whom we are leading because it will build us as well and this creates a good working relationship with the people who voted you in Parliament. I want to thank Senator Mutsvangwa for presenting what they learnt in Kenya. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. JADAGU: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to debate. I do not have much to say but I have one or two points to add because some of the things have been said by previous speakers.
I am happy to debate on this motion which was brought before this
Senate by Senator Mutsvangwa and seconded by Senator Ncube. Many Senators have spoken before me but I want to thank our Government and our President for bringing equality between men and women. I am happy to say that despite our political affiliations, we are united as women of Zimbabwe and I want to explain further on this point.
When the Government of National Unity was ushered in, it brought with it a new Constitution where, we realised developments such as the quota system for women, zebra system for women Senators and the proportional representation in the National Assembly through the hard work of some women in the form of Hon Muchinguri and Hon Khupe. These two leaders stood by women through thick and thin so that women realise a bigger stake in Parliament.
Hon Muchinguri and Hon Khupe worked very hard to make sure that women’s participation in Parliament is enhanced. We should not forget the men and women who were behind the constitution making process who made sure that the people’s views are taken on board, especially when it comes to women’s participation. That is why there was a clause in the Constitution to increase the number of women in Parliament; something that our President has always been campaigning for. We are also happy to have a woman President of the Senate and women Ministers. As women, we are happy to see one of our own in leadership positions.
Long ago, women parliamentarians used to travel on foreign trips but it was not so pronounced as it is today. I want to allude to the debate that was made by Senator Chifamba that Zimbabwe was placed on a pedestal. I do not want to repeat what she said, suffice to say that Senator Mutsvangwa and her Committee should be encouraged to do more. We are happy that as Zimbabweans we are united.
As people of Zimbabwe, we should know that no country can function without women because they are the cornerstone of nationhood.
I want all men to know that the women from both sides of this Senate are united. Recently, we attended a workshop in Kadoma where we put our heads together as women, irrespective of our political affiliation. I want to remind all the men in this Senate that all the female Senators in this House are united in their quest for equality. I want to thank all the female
Senators in this House for being united.
During the tenure of the Government of National Unity, the
Ministry of Home Affairs was co-chaired by Senator Makone and Hon. K. Mohadi, something that had never happened before. These two ministers executed their duties very well under this Ministry. A lot of people had reservations in this kind of arrangement but they proved some people wrong. Nowadays the police are stopping motorists and charging them for flimsy offences. Here I am talking about the good work that was debated by Senator Mutsvangwa and seconded by Senator Ncube. This is one of the fruits of our women’s caucus and we should support it. What we are saying is that expose a lot of women because there are many amongst us who are exceptionally talented, the likes of Hon. Chifamba. I once looked down upon Hon. Chifamba but later realised that she was talented.
Our Hon. men-folk we thank you for remonstrating with us in terms of our dress code. We appreciate your concerns Hon. Members. All Hon. Women Members of Parliament will heed your call with regards to the wearing of trousers. Furthermore, we would like to enlighten male Hon. Members that when we conduct baby welcome parties and other such predominantly women gatherings, we have now embraced our traditional ways of ensuring that the new bride will aptly look after her new found husband/child, which is in line with our dynamic culture.
Hon. Male Members, I urge you to be patient with us and allow us not to have clean shaven heads because it does not look good on us. Furthermore, let me urge my female counterparts to dress smartly in regalia which is in line with Parliament practice. The same applies to the issue of headgear (doek) which may not be acceptable in Parliament.
Hon Sen. Mutsvangwa’s committee is working very hard to ensure that gender issues are brought to the fore. I commend Hon. Sen. Masuku and Mathuthu for having raised the bar for women-folk which they demonstrated by proficiently and efficiently chairing this august House.
We should emulate Hon. Sen. Mathuthu’s sense of dressing. Hon. President, I have given my voice to the motion by pointing out these few issues that had been left out. As women Parliamentarians we respect the institution of chiefs and we will continue in that mode. Above all we respectfully submit that we should be given the chance to also become women chiefs. I, for instance am interested in becoming Chief Mangwende. I thank you for this opportunity which you have granted me.
HON. SEN. BUKA: I rise to also add a few words to this motion. This motion is irresistible to a woman. It needs our support because the issues that are being articulated in this motion relate to supporting each other as women. Firstly, I would like to thank Sen. Mutsvangwa, who is the chairperson of the Women’s Caucus and was also the head of delegation of the 20 women who went to Kenya. I want to thank you for this programme because for capacity building programmes to go ahead, it needs a clever chairperson. I also want to thank the 20 women who went there because they represented us well as well as the other leadership that was on this delegation.
It is very important to hold such workshops because as women, we come from the four corners of the different world. Some were teachers and others were housewives but it does not mean that all of us were involved in leadership roles. So, when you come to Parliament, you want an opportunity to be grilled because we say education does not end. I also want to clap hands for the chairperson and her delegation and the funders as well who made this programme to be successful. If women have done well, I think it should be us as women, who should be the first to give them credit. Now, I do not see where it says women do not support one another. I think that should be removed from our mindsets. We should remove that vocabulary because supporting one another as women, I think we are really doing our best. I think for us to sit in here, it is because of women who went to war and liberated us. If we talk about equal rights and positions of authority, we go back and refer to the war where women also participated in the liberation of the nation. So, those women who went to war supported us to be where we are today. They paved the way to where we are today.
If you look at the women who were given positions from 1980, they were paving the way for other women to be where we are today in the Senate. I can give an example of when we came up with the Constitution, there are women who worked very hard who were in the Ministry, Caucus and NGOs. They worked very hard to ensure that issues concerning women were included in the Constitution. They were working because they were being supported by the President, who wanted to give women the opportunity to lead. We want to thank the President because he is the one who brings out this. If he did not support it means that these issues would not have been in the Constitution. We also want to thank our chiefs for supporting us. They reprimand women in certain areas that we are not performing well.
Looking at the Constitution as women, the sky is the limit because even in the preamble of the Constitution and Chapter 4 which talks about our rights and then go to the National Assembly, you will see that the men and women have been given equal opportunities. What is left behind is that as women, we should have that zeal to get into positions of authority. So, as I was listening to Senator Mutsvangwa yesterday, on areas that they were taught, especially that of communication and leadership.
If you are a leader who does not know, you would not put women in positions of councilors but they were enlightened. It is very important for a leader to cascade down the things that they believe in and influence other people. I found how important the training was. Some may ask why they had to travel that far. Even here, when we want to do our budget, we go to Victoria Falls. Why do we not do it here in the Senate Chamber? We go to faraway places so that we listen freely. You are flown to Kenya and you meet new lecturers and stay in a place in which you have never stayed before. It means you will find the importance of that lesson, meaning there will not be time to dodge or run away from the lesson because you know money was spent in order for you to receive those lessons.
At this workshop, when they were being taught about communication, communication is very important because when we come to Parliament we represent certain constituents which include our children. So if those ladies were taught how to communicate, it means that they will be able to articulate cases of rape well and be articulate when enacting our laws. Also when we are talking about domestic violence, we articulate it well and when we are talking about economic empowerment, we really bring the issues out well.
Hon. Senators, I think that these issues on capacity building have brought us where we are because when it comes to motions, women stand up to contribute – to debate and this came out about due to capacity building workshops. These women were taught that it is not only about English but Shona and SiNdebele because what is important is how you are bringing out your thoughts. These workshops are very important because they give us confidence, to be able to articulate well on issues that are at stake and the people that are at home are happy because they know they have sent articulate women who are well versed with what is happening in the country.
I want to acknowledge that at the university, women were taught that during campaigns there are things that are needed such as money and good communication skills. As things are, we have 60 women who came in through the quarter system but this will lapse after 10 years, meaning if it is not extended after ten years, they are supposed to return to their constituencies and fight in order to retain their seats. They were enlightened when they were taught on campaign strategies and will be wise next time when they are campaigning that when they stand against men, the men will know that it is not business as usual. We do not believe that at the lapse of our tenure we will have opportunities to get into positions of authority. If you stay for five or ten years, I think you should go back into the constituency and give room to others to get in through the quarter system.
I appreciate that women were taught on how to campaign on their rights, the women were also taught about gender equality but it is about opportunities. Yes, there is a time when we did not understand it but it is about opportunities, going to work, going to school, going into politics and even running big companies and being in positions of authority. So if we take that into our homes. I think we will be lost because that is not what we are taught at these workshops. We are taught to be courageous, confident and also campaign against men.
Lastly, I would want to say that people went and learnt but 20 are very few. If we cannot all travel to Kenya, those who taught people in
Kenya should be flown to Zimbabwe so that they teach more people here. If all women in Parliament are taught, they will go back and teach councillors, chairwomen – cascading down because I believe as women we will be doing ourselves a lot of good. Our Constitution is very good and it supports us as women. You do not want to teach just a few people because it says, ‘my people perish due to lack of knowledge’, so knowledge should not be just for a few people but for everyone. You will find that it will be easy for women to open doors for us because they will see that women will be doing well.
It is not only women who are supporting us but even the chiefs and the men are also supporting us because they also have daughters and sisters in their homes who they want to succeed. So I think we should grab this opportunity and these few should take us through the lessons on what they learnt.
Lastly, I also want to appreciate that these people brought certificates from Kenya. That is a good reminder because each time they see the certificates they are reminders to conduct postmortems on themselves when they chair meetings or attend rallies that if I stand in front of people in tight clothes, people will not be concentrating on the meeting but will be looking at my body. I am thankful for those certificates because I think they will serve as reminders to Hon. Members.
I thank you. – [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Mr. President, I got carried away
by the debate. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NCUBE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 23rd June, 2016.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MASUKU, seconded by HON. SEN.
MARAVA, the Senate adjourned at Nine Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.,
until Tuesday, 12th July, 2016.