PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 12th February, 2013
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM PRESIDENT
WORKSHOP ON THE DRAFT CONSTITUTION
MADAM PRESIDENT: I wish to inform the Senate that the
Constitution Select Committee is inviting all hon. senators to a workshop on the Draft Constitution, to be held at the Rainbow Towers
Hotel tomorrow, Wednesday, 13th February 2013 at 0830 hours in Jacaranda Rooms numbers one and two.
INVITATION BY THE ZIMBABWE OPEN UNIVERSITY
MADAM PRESIDENT: I want to remind hon. senators that the
Zimbabwe Open University is inviting hon. members to a meeting to share information on how members can study through the university.
The meeting will be held on the 14th of February at 1000hours in the House of Assembly Chamber. This is just a reminder because I announced this last week.
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
MADAM PRESIDENT: I wish to remind hon. senators to switch off their cell phones before commencement of business.
NEW MEMBER
MADAM PRESIDENT: Finally, I wish to make a formal welcome to our member of the Senate, Hon. Masara. You are welcome to the Senate.
MOTION
PRESIDENT SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR MOHADI: Thank you Madam President, I would
like to respond to the Presidential speech, with particular reference to the state of livestock production in the provinces of Matebeleland South and North. The President stated on the importance of measures to save livestock in the drought prone areas through a number of initiatives, which include; the provision of supplementary feed stock and borehole drilling. Livestock production, Madam President, is an important and critical component of the rural economies of the Matebeleland provinces and supports a number of livelihoods and families.
In the absence of the sustainable economic activities like crop production, livestock remains the chief mainstay of the region. Unfortunately over the years, this sector has been faced by a number of challenges which has threatened its viability, amongst them are high mortality rate, drought, shortages of pastures, water and high incidences of diseases. Madam President, during the year 2012, Beitbridge, which is only a part of Matabeleland Province, lost 3 844 cattle due to drought and in 2013 lost 11 cattle, 276 sheep and goats.
Madam President, the Minister of Finance in his 2013 National Budget Statement stressed that in most parts of Matebeleland, farmers are losing animals due to mortality rates which went up to 5.5%. This is exacerbated by a decline of calving rates to fewer than 45%, which is way below the normal 65%. This Madam President paints an extremely bleak future for the national livestock production and threatens livelihoods of thousands of families heavily dependent on livestock.
It is imperative therefore Madam President, that we adopt strategies and policies particularly aimed at resuscitating this sector and ensuring that we preserve the national herd. While I welcome the due recognition given to the sector in the 2013 budget, through the availing of $3 million towards the building of the national herd particularly targeting the purchase of feed stocks and veterinary medicines, I think we should allocate more funds towards ensuring availability of water and restocking in the region.
Irrigation schemes need to be set up and the old schemes have to be rehabilitated. Madam President, as I speak, Shashe and
Tshikwalakwala irrigation schemes have been swept away by floods.
We also need to empower local authorities so that they can be able to supplement water availability through drilling new boreholes and rehabilitating existing ones. Most importantly Madam President, I call upon Government to set up a special regional fund for the construction of dams and the rehabilitation of existing ones. It is also imperative that Government invest in water projects in the province. The Matabeleland Zambezi Water Project has to be harnessed as one of the panaceas to the water problems. With the availability of water, I am quite certain that farmers will be capacitated to grow fodder for their livestock and this will go a long way in resolving the current crisis in the region.
Madam President, the region also needs machinery such as bailers/ tractors. I also think that there should be Government subsidies to poor households in providing loans for restocking and the purchase of supplementary feeds.
Madam President, the other issue which the President raised in his speech was the grain loan scheme. We embrace the grain loan scheme initiative as a noble idea which has contributed immensely towards food security and livelihoods’ sustainability in the region. Nevertheless, Madam President I would like to suggest that the distribution mechanisms be moved from the current district level to the ward level to ensure transparency and remove the bureaucracy often involved so that local communities have easier access to the programme.
SENATOR MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President, I
rise to debate the Presidential Speech which was introduced in this House by the mover, Hon. Chief Mtshane. I would want to talk on a few issues which were raised by His Excellency.
Let me start with agriculture being one of the major economic drivers apart from tourism, mining and manufacturing. Agriculture also creates employment formally and informally. In his Speech, the
President noted that it contributes between 15-18% of the Gross
Domestic Product (GDP).
I would want to lament the situation in the rural areas especially in my constituency, if I may mention it as an example; this example can apply to any other constituency. Rushinga is a dry area; the question of drilling boreholes worked initially when we started but with the persistent droughts, the boreholes are getting dried up, the water table is becoming low and low. You can build a school, you start it this year but next year if it does not rain, that school will not have a reliable source of water because of the boreholes which will not be able to yield water.
The same applies to hospitals and clinics, so we found out that the only solution in some of the areas especially in Rushinga Ward 18, is to harness the surface water which passes through when it rains. The little which passes through, if we can build some more small dams that would at least help the people to irrigate their crops and gardens. So we urge the inclusive Government to give more priority to agriculture in that form for the rural areas.
On the issue of commercial agriculture, in his Speech, His
Excellency spoke about the implementation of the Parastatals Reform Programmes, which continues to call for greater urgencies. As a result we have witnessed that Agricultural Bank for Farmers (Agri-Bank) was modestly capitalized this season. This capital injection enabled the farmers to acquire some loans for the current agricultural season but the implementation and the disbursement of those loans left a lot to be desired.
Some farmers got their loans after the agricultural season had greatly advanced. So staff which is at the institution (Agri-bank) should be reminded that farming is a business, you cannot wait or suspend some of the processes of farming. When it is due, it must be done in time, correctly and adequately. So they must try to disburse the loans as quickly as possible when they are given them so that the farmers can produce adequate produce and crops to repay those loans.
However, that is not the case at Agri-Bank, sometimes the personnel who sign the loan application go on leave for a week, which is too much loss for a farmer. We urge that when an exercise of such nature comes up in future they must suspend the leave days for the staff who will be concerned in that department and they should open the bank even during weekends until all the loans have been processed.
In his Speech, the Excellency, talked about a Bill coming here pertaining to Enterprises and Parastatals. We are eagerly waiting for the State Enterprises and Parastatals Management Bill to be introduced in this august House, so that we can debate it in this Seventh Session of this
Parliament. The Bill is intended to codify the Corporate Governance framework. We are waiting for that Bill.
On Education, Madam President, his Excellency talked about the introduction of the Tele Education Centre at the University of Zimbabwe and E-learning programmes to be introduced to rural schools. Apart from Chogugudza Primary school and John Landa Nkomo High School in Tsholotsho which have already benefited from the current effort, we are looking forward that more schools will benefit from the exercise.
Madam President, let me lament the poor results at Ordinary Level which we have experienced this year. The pass rate is reported to have gone down. According to reliable and confirmed sources, results from last year’s exams shows that Ordinary Level pass rate stood at 18,4% which is a 1,1% drop from the previous year, 2011, statistics. It must be pointed out that the number of people taking these exams is increasing each time but that does not mean the compromise of quality education.
We must maintain the high quality of education at O’ level. Exam results are a sum of many aspects, Madam President, for example, adequate funding of the education process, provision of both teaching materials and qualified staff will go a long way to determine the type of results which we are going to get.
However, statistics indicate that Zimbabwe currently has a teaching staff complement of about 106 000 teachers out of the required 136 000 teachers. So we are short of about 20 to 30 000 qualified teachers, I am talking about qualified teachers not unqualified teachers. Most schools therefore especially in the rural areas have to rely on relief or unqualified teachers on relief or unqualified teachers. This is one source where poor results are coming from because they are being taught by unqualified teachers. It is not uncommon; to find in some schools in the rural areas, to discover that there is no qualified teacher; from the Head up to the lowest teacher, they are all unqualified teachers. We are compromising the quality of our education and all this has a bearing on the results which we are talking about. Most qualified teachers, unfortunately also shun taking up posts in the rural areas because of the absence of special allowances which can motivate them to stay there.
Remember in 2005/2008, we had an exodus of teachers going to other neighbouring countries and other fields inside the country. These are trying tried to come back and when they tried to do so; we read in the newspapers that they refuse to be deployed in rural areas – the Deputy Minister who happened to be an MP has told me they refuse to go to rural areas to take up posts. They would rather stay in the urban areas. We must find some incentive to lure the teachers so that they go there and help the rural folk who are by far the majority of the people we have.
Madam President, experts in education argue that it is therefore, no surprise that rural schools are the major contributors of the failure rate at ‘O’ Level and we cannot dispute that. Therefore, I want to urge the Inclusive Government to consider remunerating the Civil Servants adequately, especially the teachers and create a special allowance for the rural staff in general. I also believe that the absence of continuous assessment which was created by removing ZJC is also an oversight which is costing us.
I think we must call for the reintroduction of Zimbabwe Junior Certificate so that there is continuous assessment. Sometimes the pupils are unprepared, when they start form one up to form four – four years without any formal examination, they tend to relax and lose focus. So bring back the ZJC examinations, the Inclusive Government, please those who are in the Government, I am appealing to you so that the pupils are adequately prepared before they sit for ‘O’ Level.
Another area which I want to touch on; I want to just comment, this one I could have contributed when the report was given on the Outreach Programme. In his address, the President of course talked about the outreach then but it is now water under the bridge. We have come to a successful conclusion and I also want to congratulate the COPAC team members; the 25, but remember they were representing all of us here. The 25 were only the spokes people for all the
Parliamentarians, both in the Lower House and in the Upper House. Let us say a job well done! We are all singing the same tune, we are now busy holding workshops to go and convince our people to vote ‘yes’ in the referendum and prepare for the elections. Let me hasten to say; browsing through the draft Constitution...
MADAM PRESIDENT: Order, please confine yourself to the Presidential Speech – thank you.
SENATOR MUMVURI: I have already indicated that it is now water under the bridge but I wanted to add some aspects of the Constitution, I do not know whether I am out of context or not?
MADAM PRESIDENT: You are.
SENATOR MUMVURI: Before I sit down, I want to commend
the speech by the President but I also want to say somewhere in his Speech, he mentioned that many Bills were intended to be introduced in the Sixth Session of Parliament but only a few came to fruition. We must not repeat that this term. I think the Executive must bring work to us here. Sometimes we just come here; pray, open and close. That is wastage of manpower and people’s resources. We are paid for that, though sometimes we go without coupons. We want business to be here constantly so that we debate issues and we move forward. I thank you Madam President.
THE GOVERNOR FOR MATABELELAND NORTH: I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Second Order read: adjourned debate on the motion on the tragic and untimely death of Hon. Vice President John Landa Nkomo.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR MAKORE: Thank you very much Madam President for
giving me the opportunity to debate about John Landa Nkomo. I also want to thank Senator S.K. Moyo for the great motion, which he moved in this august Senate.
Hon. Nkomo was a great man who contributed immensely in the development of the nation. I quote words of wisdom from Senator Moyo that, Vice President Nkomo was a teacher by profession, a trade unionist by circumstance and a politician by desire. This means that he played his role satisfactorily at all levels of society. I understand that at one point, when he was teaching somewhere in Matebeleland, he taught alongside with the President.
As a trade unionist myself, I particularly worked with the late Vice President John Landa Nkomo when he was the Minister of Labour in 1995. He was friendly, impartial and accommodative in all his solutions to problems. As a politician, the late Vice President John Landa Nkomo played a very important role in uniting parties under the Patriotic Front, in particular, ZANU PF and ZAPU.
At the time of his death, he was a member of the Organ for
National Healing, Reconciliation and Integration in which he played a pivotal role. We remember him for his outstanding representation in this country. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you
Mr. President. First of all, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, the ‘National Chairman’, Senator Khaya Moyo, for having introduced the motion - AN HON SENATOR: Senator Georgias muchikwana, National Chairman ndiani?] – I rise before you Mr. President and hon. senators to join you all in paying my heartfelt tribute…
SENATOR MUCHIHWA: Point of Order Mr. President, we have a senator and not national chairman. Thank you.
SENATOR GEORGIAS: I did not say national chairman, I said
Senator Moyo. Thank you.
- PRESIDENT: Order! Order! You should address the Chair.
SENATOR GEORGIAS: Thank you for that correction. I would like to thank the mover, Senator Khaya Moyo for having moved this motion. Mr. President, I rise before you and hon. senators to…
SENATOR MAKORE: Point of Order, are we allowed to read our speeches or debate?
- PRESIDENT: The senator may refer to his notes and debate.
You may proceed Senator Georgias.
SENATOR GEORGIAS: Mr. President, I rise before you and hon. senators to join you all in paying my heartfelt tribute, deep honour and utmost respect to the recently departed, late Vice President of our dear Republic of Zimbabwe, John Landa Nkomo. Mr. President, they say that there are no gentlemen in politics, here was a gentleman in all his demeanor, one giant colossus from Matebeleland who strode across the political landscape and divide of our nation, with disarming humility, great charm and warmth. Yet still, with unrelenting passion and true patriotic fervor and love for his country, he would serve in any capacity, as can be seen with his book-long C.V. May his soul truly rest in eternal peace.
Mr. President, before I proceed to pay tribute to our dear departed Vice President in whose honour I speak, allow me to thank you personally Mr. President and Madam President of this Senate for the exemplary, dignified, fair and purposeful manner in which you have led the conduct of business in this august Senate.
I believe that it is instructive, especially to hon. members of the Lower House, that it is possible to debate all matters in the House, without acrimony and hostility amongst us, despite our differing political views and affiliations. I believe the Senate has proved its relevance to the extent that, it has silenced critics and vindicated His Excellency, President Robert Mugabe for his wisdom in re-introducing the bi-cameral parliamentary system. It is only when we are able to engage in meaningful, robust and relevant discourse that we can move matters forward to help shape and guide the destiny of our great economy.
I say this Mr. President because I know these are the core values that the late Vice President Nkomo cherished and indeed, fashioned and exhibited in his long and illustrious political life. His dedication to patriotic duty and service to his nation are well documented and have been eloquently spoken of by hon. senators here.
However, it is his unending quest for a lasting peace, love, tolerance and total respect for human dignity that leaves an indelible mark. John Nkomo saw much earlier, that most of us, the short-sighted of retrogressive and cancerous, dare I say, cantankerous notions such as racism, regionalism and tribalism.
John Landa Nkomo truly shunned that backward thinking that has kept us locked in cheap and self-serving political haggling and bickering that will take us nowhere, when other nations are fast developing right under our noses.
Mr. President, the only meaningful tribute we can pay to our illustrious heroes such as the late Vice President John Nkomo, is purposeful, soul-searching, as a nation, that we can truly heal and genuinely come together as one, that we may pursue a common vision and national interest.
In true and total respect for the memory and legacy of John Nkomo, we can escape the trappings of political and tribal strife that we have afflicted most of our sister African countries. It takes decades of hard and painful work to repair the ravages of unnecessary wars, regional and tribal strife and sustained conflict. Yet patience, love, tolerance, humility, as fashioned by the late John Nkomo, can result in miraculous and epochal outcomes such as the Unity Accord of 1987. We thank to John Nkomo and other honourable men of peace for ending that sad and never-to-be-repeated episode in our nation’s checkered history.
We need to seriously reflect, as a nation, on those core and intrinsic values of some of our founder heroes like the late Vice President John Nkomo, so that somehow we may focus our national psyche, not on our personal alter egos, but that which is right and in the general good and prosperity of our nation. Our diversity must be our source of strength and not our weakness. African countries have a weakness, Mr. President. We do not settle for policies which protect ourselves. We are always protecting others coming into our own country and make them rich to the detriment of the local people. Mr.
President, ‘I salute you John Nkomo and may your fond memories endure in us forever’. We truly can come together.
If I may give you a little story. There was a very famous judge who was up and coming, that is in London. This judge was of a view that…
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order, does it have something to do with the condolence message?
SENATOR GEORGIAS: Yes, it does. I was coming to that.
What I was saying is that, this judge said that all men are born equal and that a man should not be suppressed because of the colour of his skin. This is what the Vice President was actually fighting for; equality of men and yet people here, almost protected other people and not ourselves. The Vice President was very conscious of the benefit of his own people.
What I am trying to say here is that this judge was very friendly with the black people and the Asians. He went around Africa educating the African people on the law. When his peers in his country found out that this is what he was doing, because any law that was not proper he turned it down; he even repealed some laws enacted by Parliament because he was more for the blacks. When they realized his interest was for blacks and at the same time, he also was very much against the influx of people coming into London, they assigned him on to do immigration law because there were Asians and blacks. So, he had to rule in accordance with other judges’ wishes, which were biased anyway. After that, he became the Lord Justice. I think Senator Gutu would know Lord Denning. He was a very impartial person and John Nkomo was that kind of person. I thank you.
DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order, I just want to direct that this is not just an ordinary debate whereby members are not allowed to read from their prepared speeches but this is a condolence debate that members are making. That is why even Deputy Ministers are allowed to participate in the debate.
*SENATOR CHIEF CHIDUKU: Thank you. Mr. President.
Firstly I want to thank Senator Moyo, who moved the motion, for such a motion that shows respect for the leader who has led with wisdom, with a history such that each and every person is mourning wherever they are. The sun might rise and set. When we are talking of John Landa Nkomo, he was a man who did a lot in Zimbabwe. He did his best for the country until the time of his death.
When talking about the liberation struggle, he also participated with others. In teaching, he participated until he became the Minister of Local Government.
He worked with us Chiefs; whenever he arrived he would say, the
Chief of Chiefs has arrived. He was a free person. He then went into the Land Reform Programme. Those who got offer letters, his name is there and his signature and we will always remember him, I do not know till when. After that, he rose until he became the Vice President of the country. We want to urge each other in this House that we should emulate the Vice President but we have a problem in emulating the good things.
If you want to see how we lie to each other - if a person tries to name, if we talk of values we do not learn them. If a person is not interested, a person might stay for 30 minutes and try to be attentive but that person will still return to his old ways. Before the sunset he is back to his old self. John Landa Nkomo led by example such that we can all look at what he did in his life but for all the positions he was given, he did them well. We heard Hon. Holland talk of how they worked together in the Organ for National Healing. It was a difficult period. He was given that position as the President realized that he was the one who deserved that post and there was peace in the country.
Today there is peace and people talk to each other and that is the leadership that we advocate for, that was done by Vice President John Landa Nkomo. Right now, the Nkomo family is bereaved but we are saying they should not mourn on their own. We are also pained and mourn his death. There is nothing that we can do in that each person has his own days on earth but what we know is that where a tooth has been extracted that gap will always be there. We will never find someone who is like him. My last words are that let us emulate and not look at the bad.
Thank you Mr. President.
SENATOR HUNGWE: Thank you President, first of all, I would like to thank the mover of the motion Senator S. K. Moyo and also the seconder. I want to make my contribution to our departed hero, John Landa Nkomo. I want to refer this House to what we saw on the day our dear brother and friend John Landa Nkomo was buried at the National
Hero’s Shrine. That ceremony was far from beyond the ordinary ceremony that we have ever witnessed before in this country.
It was a funeral with its own character and colour from speeches to music, it was rare, it was something we have never witnessed before. It was to make a statement about this hero, this leader, this man that our dear John Landa Nkomo was not only our Vice President of this land but above all, a person. It is not easy to qualify to be a person in a community of people. John Nkomo ranked high. He was not only a leader but a person. Zimbabwe, Mr. President, is poorer today without John Landa Nkomo. Thank you.
+SENATOR MBAMBO: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I would
like to thank Senator S.K. Moyo who brought this motion before this House to express our condolences to our departed leader John Landa
Nkomo. Mr. President Sir, a lot has been said about our Vice President Nkomo. This loss is not just to the Nkomo family but it is a loss to the entire nation of Zimbabwe. We know that if a person departs, he leaves behind a legacy and he has left a legacy of love amongst all the people. He did not leave a legacy of money but he left a legacy of love just like what the late Vice President John Nkomo said. John Landa Nkomo was a son of the soil, just like what the vice President said. He has left us as a united country.
Yes, we are mourning his death, but he has left something that is very important for us and that is peace amongst us. If we are to follow his words, we would live in peace. Everybody, mothers, children and everyone in the country, knew that he was a man of peace. A lot has been said as I said before about his good deeds. The question that I have is, are we still going to keep his word of keeping peace in the country and what God gave us? I remember him saying, God created people and he put them in the world and he gave them portions of land where we could live and we were also given Zimbabwe as our portion.
He was talking about the trees. He was saying the trees, the land, the birds, and even the snakes are ours. He even went on to say that let us eat what is edible. We are all children of the soil and we are all mourning his death. Let us take heed of what he used to say. As I said Mr. President, I do not have a lot because a lot has already been said and people from my Constituency which is Bubi Umguza, are mourning his death because that is where he also came from. He came from Matabeleland North. They are mourning his death together with the entire nation of Zimbabwe. I do not have much to say Mr. President.
May his soul rest in peace and may we continue loving each other just as he said. Thank you Mr. President.
SENATOR HLALO: Thank you Mr. President, I hope this time my contribution is going to be recorded unlike my last contribution where there was no mention of what I said. I want to say that Senator S.
- Moyo is a great man, he is a great son of the soil. There is no need of mentioning this when he is dead; we need to mention it when he is still alive. There are three things that I would like to share with this august Senate that were left by Ubaba uNkomo; his humanity, integrity and humbleness. If some of us are to be given the chance to be Vice President today, they will not eat isitshwala, they will only eat American Gulashi, Pizza etc.
There was another person who went as far as Junior Level certificate who was mentioned by His Excellency the President, who when he went to his rural home, he refused to eat Sadza, he only ate rice. I remember one day when burying my relative, Isidhile, we saw a
Presidential motor-cade, and we saw that it was the Vice President, the Late Hon. Nkomo who had come to mourn with us, he sat next to me. I remember when we heard the news about his death tears started coming out, not because we were forced but because he was a humble man, one cannot hold tears hearing the death of such a great man.
I think all of us who are emulating to be leaders of tomorrow must follow his good behavior. Sen. Madiro can agree with me that he was non-partisan. I remember one day when I met him he said mfana ngiphathela amanzi and this is something we want people to follow, his behaviour and his humbleness. He did not take me as MDC. I went and I knelt close to him and gave him the water.
There was this other story that came out in the paper concerning a dispute of land, can you imagine, Hon. Nkomo, a man of his status being brought to court by an ordinary man. I passed through the place and I saw the man drinking beer, he is still there on that land. Imagine if it was one of the executives, that man could have breathed fire, but Hon. Nkomo had to humble himself. He showed the ubuntu behaviour even to his juniors. He was a man of integrity and humanity.
I think this is also true of President Mugabe. I had my relative who was not paid his money by ZAPU. I gave him an opinion to go and see His Excellency the President and the issue was solved and he got his money. So, I just want to say that President Mugabe is also one of the leaders we can emulate because of his good behaviour, kindness and non- partisan nature.
Lastly, I would want to talk about his stature, he was a tall man like me and he wore neat Matebeleland suits like what I am wearing. He was a great man in everything; he is a great man that I would not hesitate to call my father as he was a father figure.
*SENATOR CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President, I want to support the motion that was moved by Hon. Senator S.K Moyo that gives us wise words on the loss of our Vice President, Cde John Landa
Nkomo. As the people of Zimbabwe, we mourn with the Nkomo family especially with the Vice President’s mother who is still alive. We want to thank her that she gave birth to a good child who worked together with others. He had values for Zimbabwe and respected the people of Zimbabwe and held a high position at the time of his death. Therefore, I want to thank his mother. We have heard a lot of painful words that were said by many people.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order, I am not sure if the
interpreters will catch up with you. I remember when the President of Senate said, if you debate in your mother language, you should speak slowly so that you will be properly captured.
*SENATOR CHIMBUDZI: Thank you, I wanted to support
words that were said by Hon. Senator Moyo on the death of Vice President John Landa Nkomo. What I was saying is, my first words go to the mother of the Vice President, and we mourn with her. She is a good mother and she gave birth to a child like the Vice President who was known for the works that he did. Some of the works we do not know because we were not there but we hear that he went through so many problems.
We heard that he held a number of positions even outside the country and here in Zimbabwe. In my constituency in Mt Darwin, the people were pained and they hoped that they would get transport so that they come and lay him to rest but that was not possible. Vice President John Landa Nkomo was someone who was approachable, he interacted even with us members. He could come and greet us; he would laugh and talk to us. He was a good person as history taught us that, even if you do not have a post in the Government, in your family you should be a person who has love for others and a person who is willing to help others.
He built a school and the children who go to that school will succeed because of that school. It is good to have such a person who has love for the people and they will love and respect you.
We would want to mourn as Zimbabweans, on the death of Vice President who gave his strength to the nation so that we have peace and unity. His death should encourage us to work for our country. Rest in peace Hon. Vice President. Thank you.
THE GOVERNOR FOR MATABELELAND NORTH: I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 13th February, 2013.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF THE DEATH PENALTY
Third Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the death penalty.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR MAKAMURE: Thank you Mr. President, I stand to talk on the death penalty which was moved by Senator Marava. I think the death penalty affects people and human rights. God created Adam and Eve and said they should die but it was not said that they will be killed. For that reason, when we look at the death of Vice President John Landa Nkomo, he died a natural death because his time was up, so what we are saying is
*SENATOR MAKAMURE: (Speaking)…
Speech not recorded due to technical fault
SENATOR SINAMPANDE: Thank you Mr. President for
affording me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion which was moved by Senator Marava and seconded by Senator Hlalo.
Mr. President, It is a wise and correct move to abolish the death penalty in our country because of the following reasons:
Hanging never existed in our culture as Zimbabweans. Our traditional customs never provided for hanging in any circumstances. There was always a way of reuniting warring families, some of which were through compensation, marriage or even through apology. Traditional courts then had, answers to all miss-understandings which may have risen within their jurisdiction and all these excluded death penalty.
Mr. President, death penalty was introduced by the colonial settlers who did not hesitate even to kill our great spirit medium and this was one of the main reasons why sons and daughters of this Zimbabwe waged a war to liberate the country and resuscitate the bones of spirit mediums. I see therefore no reasons why we should continue to uphold death penalty when we are now an independent state with our independent laws in place.
Finally, Mr. President, I would like to encourage this House to leave behind an admirable legacy, that of love, peace and harmony and this is hindered by the existence of this colonial product called death penalty. With these few words Mr. President I want to thank you so much.
+SENATOR SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. President, I would also want to add my voice to the motion that was moved by Senator Marava calling on Zimbabwe to abolish the death penalty.
The death penalty was started by the whites as what my colleagues have already alluded to. At times some people are sentenced to death yet that will not be the correct sentence because some of them would not have committed those offences. What if it is later discovered that the person who was sentenced to death did not commit the offence? That sentence is not reversible because the person would have been hanged.
Mr. President, the death sentence was brought about by our colonisers, we all know about our history, we all know that Mbuya Nehanda was hanged. What do you think Mbuya Nehanda would say if you continue hanging people, do you think she is happy about what is happening in Zimbabwe since she was hanged by the whites. Personally I think Mbuya Nehanda is not happy that people continue to be hanged. I believe that if a person has done wrong that person should be corrected because every time a person is hanged it is the parents and relatives who suffer. I do not think the hang man himself is happy about it. That is why Zimbabwe did not have a hangman for a very long time. So as a country, we must abolish the death penalty.
A lot of times I have realized that killing someone who has done wrong does not stop murder as such, but if people are educated that if there is a problem between two people, one should not get angry to an extent of killing. I think the rate of murder cases will be reduced if people are educated because people are encouraged to sit down and talk. A lot of times I have seen that if someone murders someone, that person would not be sober; there will be a spirit behind, that pushes one to kill somewhere, somehow that pushes someone to kill someone but if we continue murdering or killing each other, we will not be doing right. I think hanging people should be done away with because us as a Christian country we should know that it is good to forgive one another and it is also bad to kill one another. With those few words, Mr. President I wish the death penalty to be abolished here in Zimbabwe, I thank you.
*SENATOR MAKORE: I want to thank you Mr. President for
the opportunity you have given me to debate on the motion that was moved by Hon. Marava; that if only all countries would look into the issue of death penalty and do away with it, would not be going anywhere. I want to add that those who murder/kill other people are not at peace. They regret always why they have done it because the spirit of those people will be haunting them the rest of their lives. Some of them are wishing themselves dead because they think if they die they will rest. I understand that there are some countries; developed and liberal countries who still murder murderers. If you read a book by Cains you would find that 4 596 people were murdered for killing other people.
We are not saying these people were not at fault but we are only saying let us find other means like life imprisonment or long term imprisonment. You would find that those people are not at peace – imagine a family person living without seeing his/her family. They would wish if they have never done such a thing.
Our Thematic Committee managed to talk to some of the murderers in prison. We asked them how their life was like. They told us that they were living in tiny rooms, putting on red robes and they are called ‘condemners’; locked in there and they will only be allowed to be out for an hour the whole day. They are already dead I suppose, because they are no longer living a normal life. They said those small rooms, is where they use as toilets as well as eating there. Do you think it is healthy? I do not think so.
We discovered that there are people who have been there for 10 to 16 years and whenever they hear their doors being touched they just think we are about to be killed. So you would find that they are not happy at all. That trauma they are living in, I think is enough. Therefore, I urge our Government to abolish the death penalty because I think for the past nine years Zimbabwe has never imposed a death penalty on anyone. If we have managed that long, it means we can abolish it totally because you would find that in the end we would be the same as those murderers because we will also kill. Let us all agree and let it be law that no one should be killed for having killed/murdered someone but find other means.
*SENATOR MAKUYANA: I also stand to thank the mover of the motion Hon. Marava seconded by Hon. Hlalo. Most of the things have already been said concerning the death penalty. In this House, I believe that it is a House composed of people with wisdom, who have come of age and who will look forward to solving problems amicably without drawing out knives. I look forward to this House bringing about peace and unity in the country and to reject the issue of murdering one another.
We are the ones who teach what has been the tradition that no one should be murdered. There are other measures that can be put in place such as paying a fine. I think having a life imprisonment sentence is much better than the death penalty. Today if we look back, none of us is clean, we have all sinned. The leaders of the country are calling for peace and unity, if we call for murdering one another when the leaders are calling for peace, what do we mean?
If we look back again, you will find that we are forgiving each other in things that are worse. I would not want to say much about that one but you know that we killed each other during the Gukurahundi period. We killed each other during the June 2008 and with other people that we see moving, can we actually advocate for a death penalty? We need to forgive each other, yes people died everywhere, during the liberation struggle. We knew that so and so caused the death of so and so, but I think today, people are able to walk and talk together. I pray that this Senate might have God’s spirit and that of our ancestors that people should not be murdered. Someone may be a thief or a murderer, but he can learn by spending most of his life in prison, which may lead to his death by natural means. Let us not focus on certain spirits which will come back and haunt us, if someone commits murder, the avenging spirits will haunt the same person who would have done that.
If other countries have condemned the death penalty, can we not also emulate that and ensure that there is no murdering. It does not mean that those who make mistakes are political or religious people, but we are all human and should look at the reasons why some people end up committing crimes. Sometimes it is because of those avenging spirits from their ancestors who would have committed murders before. We should know that there are spirits everywhere and those spirits can cause one to do certain things, can we then say that person should be murdered. Mr. President, with these few words, I feel this Senate should have the spirit of God, spirit of our ancestors, spirit of forgiveness and the spirit of not killing one another. Thank you Mr. President. *SENATOR CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President.
A long time ago in our societies, there were no jails, Harare Central Prisons and Chikurubi were non-existent, but the country had peace. If you read the Bible, in the Ten Commandments, it says, we should not kill. The death penalty came along with the colonialists through their system of justice. They are the ones who came with capital punishment.
Comparing the justice system of chiefs, the traditional leaders, and that of the white men, people say that the white man’s system is bad, they kill one another whilst our justice system was good. The other thing that is disturbing me is that, in this debate, we support our traditional beliefs, but last week when the Draft Constitution was tabled in this Senate, we wanted to debate and we were told to keep quiet because they said it is good and we should support it.
However, you were ululating, but chapter 4 of the Draft
Constitution has a clause on the death penalty. I am wondering whether what you are saying now is different from what is contained in the Draft Constitution. When it comes back after the Referendum, are you going to push for the amendment or you are just talking….. [HON
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – I need your protection Mr. President. People are not democratic in this Senate because they do not know that democracy means that a person who has the floor has a right to his opinion. For one to complain when the other is giving his opinion is dictatorship. I am saying that the draft was ululated at and accepted, so the death penalty will be allowed in certain circumstances. I do not know whether our opinion is going to change, considering what we adopted last week. Thank you.
SENATOR MOHADI: Mr. President, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I have longed to rise up and give the same sentiments as have been given by Senator Chief Charumbira. We are the very people who adopted the report, which include the death penalty. We are also the ones who will go out into the communities to preach the gospel. The hon. senators in this august Senate are debating about this issue after adopting it. Our constituents are going to ask us about it because they read the Hansard booklets, where they will find out that we were debating about the death penalty after having agreed that it should be adopted. Are we really ourselves? We should think about it. I would like to remind the Select Committee members that we were there when it started. During the outreach, everyone was there, people spoke and the draft is now out. We were encouraging our people in the communities to support this document, are they going to support the document that we are against? Maybe I read it differently, but it is there and our Principals have endorsed this Draft Constitution with the death penalty incorporated in there. With these few words Mr. President, I thank you and I hope you will think about it. Thank you Mr. President.
*SENATOR MUZERENGWA (Speaking): Speech not
recorded due to technical fault.
+SENATOR K. DUBE: Speech not recorded due to technical
fault.
THE GOVERNOR OR MATEBELELAND NORTH: I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 13th February, 2013.
On the motion of THE GOVERNOR FOR MATEBELELAND
NORTH, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes to Five o’clock p. m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 13th February, 2013
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM PRESIDENT
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
MADAM PRESIDENT: I wish to remind hon. senators to switch off their cell phones before commencement of business.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE GOVERNOR FOR MATABELELAND NORTH: I move
that the debate do now adjourn. Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 14th February, 2013.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF THE HON VICE PRESIDENT
JOHN LANDA NKOMO
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the tragic and untimely death of Hon. Vice President John Landa Nkomo.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR ENGINEER CHITAKA: Thank you Madam
President. First, I would like to thank Hon. Senator S. K. Moyo for moving this motion. I stand here not to give a long history of the Late Vice President because I believe several speakers before me have done justice. I simply stand to add my condolence.
I simply stand to offer my condolences to the family of the late Vice President John Landa Nkomo, the people of Zimbabwe and this august Senate. The only statement I need to say is, it is through his work and life that some people like myself stand here today, without him and people like him, I personally would not be enjoying some of the privileges and freedoms that I enjoy today.
I just want to put it on record that I do sincerely appreciate his life, what he contributed in his life and what he achieved for this nation of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*SENATOR CHIEF CHISUNGA: Thank you Madam President.
I rise to speak about the loss that we suffered as a country. I have a lot to say about the late Vice President John Landa Nkomo during the few years that I worked with him. I remember when I was still a councillor, he helped us a lot as a country, in addressing the Rural District Councils Act so that it would also assist the Government and the communities. I believe that most councills also passed through this period when he addressed such issues of the Local Government Act.
I also want to appreciate the fact that when he was the Minister of Local Government, he assisted in addressing the law that actually pertained to chiefs. We now have the Chiefs and Headmen Act. Hon. Vice President Nkomo left a legacy during his life. A few days ago I passed through Hwahwa and remembered that this is the place where he spent some time during the liberation struggle. For this country to be liberated, he had to be incarcerated at that place. I want to thank the late Vice President that he did a lot to assist this country and I want to say to his family and the country at large, that we are deeply saddened by the loss.
I stand here representing the Chiefs and we also suffered a great loss. His experience was going to be quite useful in our generation. He had wisdom which could have assisted this country to develop. I think his legacy will continue to lead this country in the future. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.
THE GOVERNOR FOR MATABELELAND NORTH: I move
that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 14th February, 2013.
MOTION
ABOLITION OF THE DEATH PENALTY
Third Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the death penalty.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR ENGINEER CHITAKA: Firstly, I would like to thank the mover of the motion, Hon. Senator Marava for bringing this issue to our attention. My submission Madam President is that, the death penalty is “unchristian”; it goes against our Christian beliefs, it is cruel, it is inhuman, it is irreversible and it ignores the needs of the victims.
Previous speakers have demonstrated and reminded us of how the Bible teaches us not to kill. We pray every time hon. senators, before we start our businesses, asking for God‟s wisdom, pledging to do his will and follow his commandments. Therefore, we cannot support any law that allows the taking of life. Only God can give and take away life. It is also cruel, I do not know if people have ever seen the hanging process being carried out. If you had the opportunity to see and witness how it is carried out and how the victim appears after being hung, you will see how cruel this process is. I am talking from experience.
It is also inhuman. I will give an example of a broiler chicken that we keep for four to six weeks and then we kill it to eat it. In the case of the death penalty, you see people who have been on death row for more than ten years waiting to be killed. It is worse than a chicken because you know that after six weeks it is killed, but we keep someone on death row for more than ten years. So every day that person is living a nightmare of being killed. Therefore, it is very cruel and inhuman.
It is also irreversible. Some things you can reverse, if you make a mistake, you kneel before God and say God Father forgive me, but if we kill a wrong person, what are we going to do? There have been several cases in history where the wrong people have been hung or killed.
People have been accused of crimes that they did not commit only to find out years later that the real killer is walking the streets but the one who was accused is now dead, how do you feel? We cannot reverse that process. If it was a process that I would just go and resurrect him and say sorry, it was not you who killed so and so, can you come back to life, it would be alright but it is irreversible.
Also, this death penalty ignores the needs of victims. We spend so much money trying to kill someone but how about the victims. What do we do about that? We spend so many resources to try and keep this person for 15 years or 20 years, but we do not do anything about the victim. So, what are we achieving? It would be better to reserve those resources to look after the needs of the victims of that crime.
Finally, I would like to comment that, contrary to some of the sentiments expressed by my colleagues who debated earlier, the proposed draft does give us an opportunity to abolish the death penalty. Therefore, I am calling on all future Governments, any future
Government that comes out of the next election, to remove from all our statutes any law that allows the death penalty. The power is in the Constitution, so let us use that power to abolish this cruel, inhuman and degrading practice. I thank you.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Thank you. I am going to allow Senator Makuyana to debate again today because when he debated he was not captured. The translators, for some reasons did not capture his speech. So I do not want any one raising Point of Order because he is not in the Hansard, he needs to come out. His contribution needs to be recorded, so no Point of Orders please.
*SENATOR MAKUYANA: Thank you Madam President, firstly
Madam President, I want to apologise for the problems that happened yesterday. Despite that, I would like to repeat a few words that I would want to say concerning the death penalty. – [HON. SENATORS: He was captured; his speech appeared in yesterday‟s Hansard]
MADAM PRESIDENT: So you were captured, it is in the
Hansard. Thank you.
SENATOR MAKUYANA: Thank you Madam President, the one
who announced that to me is a secretary for Parliament out there, I cannot remember the name. I was misled and may the House forgive me. I was misled, thank you.
MADAM PRESIDENT: It is important that when you contribute, you are captured in the Hansard, remember we have Constituencies back there; they need to know what we are doing here. So I appreciate his concern.
+SENATOR MLOTSWA: Thank you very much Madam
President, I stand up to utilise the opportunity that had been given to hon. Makuyana. I also want to add my voice to the motion that was raised by hon. Marava in this august House.
Madam President, I think yesterday there was a bit of confusion because we were talking about the Draft Constitution Report, that we all embraced and yet this motion talks about the Government, when it goes to the General Assembly, that they should not vote for the death penalty. Even if we still have the death penalty, it should not be used willy nilly because for the past 10 years, no one was executed. So this motion was brought to this august Senate, but we are saying that, even if we all embraced the Draft Constitution Report, we are not going to use that law. Unless if there are very strong reasons as to why we have to use that law, but for now, let us wait for the Government to go to the General Assembly. The Government should go and vote against the death penalty and that is what should happen.
I think this motion is very important, Madam President. The death penalty is not a solution to the problems that are there. There is a saying that goes “an eye for an eye makes the world go blind,” because here in Zimbabwe, we went through some very difficult times. Many people were killed some time back. So if we were to kill each other for having committed an offence, then it means we will end up with no people. If someone kills someone, we do not have to kill that person.
I heard what was said by one of the hon. members: They said, if someone is murdered, the family members then appease the wronged family by paying or even by giving them a girl child. But that is not what is done in the Ndebele culture. To me it appeared funny that they replace that person with a woman. It is important that people forgive each other or they should make compensation by paying with cattle, cars or other things. That is all I wanted to say, Madam President.
SENATOR MARAVA: Thank you Madam President, I rise up to wind-up the motion on Abolition of the Death Penalty. Madam President, the motion generated a lot of debate. What made me extremely happy, Madam President, is the level headedness of this august Senate. Hon. members debated and proved beyond reasonable doubt that death penalty is not only cruel but also foreign, hence must be abolished. Hon. members across the divide have totally agreed to abolish death sentence.
I will have done this House a dis-service if I do not mention some of the hon. members, who contributed to this motion. A big thank you goes to the following; Hon. Senator Hlalo, Hon. Senator R. Muchihwa, Hon. Senator Makamure, Hon. Senator Rugara, Hon. Senator Ncube
Spiwe, Hon. Senator Sibanda, Hon. Senator Sinampande, Hon. Senator Makore, Hon. Senator Makuyana, Hon. Senator, Hon. Senator
Mzerengwa, Hon. Senator Mambo Charumbira, Hon. Senator Mohadi,
Hon. Senator K. Dube, Hon. Senator Chitaka, the list is endless Madam President. The motion was debated at length. I want to thank you very much. Therefore, I ask for the adoption of this motion by this Senate, thank you. Sorry Madam President, I forgot someone very important, Hon Senator Mlotshwa.
Bells rung
Senate divided
SENATOR RUGARA: On a point of order, Madam President, I
think when we are in the House we follow certain rules, when he said that, he was just shouting slogans like most of us do here. I am sitting near Sen. Makuyana, he did not move like it should be done.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Sen. Makuyana, you moved for the
division, have you withdrawn?
SENATOR MAKUYANA: Sorry Madam President; if there are
still other people who want to debate; you have already said the „yes‟ have it so there is no need for division. Let us adopt.
MADAM PRESIDENT: You cannot, because the mover of the
motion has put the motion for adoption. If some Members do not feel like the motion should be adopted and some feel like it should be adopted, that is when we divide the House. Dividing the House means we are going to vote – those who say yes will be on one side and those who say no will be on the other side. Then we count and the outcome determines.
SENATOR MUMVURI: Madam President, I think just for the
record, let us divide the Senate.
An hon. senator having walked into the Senate after the bells have stopped ringing.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Order hon. senators. We run this Senate
according to the rules and regulations as stipulated by the Standing
Rules and Orders. If the rules state that an hon. senator should not enter the Senate after the bells have stopped ringing, then we should follow that. Thank you.
Ayes – 16 – Chitaka P.; Femai M.; Hlalo M. M.; Makamure E. K;
Makore J.; Makuyana C.; Masaba J.; Muzerengwa T. S; Ncube S.;
Rugara K.; Masara S. B.; Sibanda A.; Sinampande H. M.; Zvidzai S.
Tellers: Marava M. and Mlotshwa S.
Noes – 15 – Chibagu G.; Chimbudzi A.; Dete A. A.; Georgias A.; Jacob E.; Kanyemaenza V.; Mandaba M. I. N.; Manyeruke J.; Mathuthu T. A.; Mbambo L.; Murerwa H.; Mutsvangwa M.; Muchenje V.
Tellers: Mohadhi T. B and Mumvuri D. D. E.
Senate resumed.
Motion put and adopted.
On the motion of THE GOVERNOR FOR MATABELELAND
NORTH, the Senate adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes past Three o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 19th February, 2013.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 19th February, 2013
The Senate met at Half-past Two
o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM PRESIDENT
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
MADAM PRESIDENT: May I remind hon. senators to switch
off their cell phones or to put them on silent.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE PUBLIC ORDER AND SECURITY
AMENDMENT BILL ON THE ORDER PAPER
- GONESE: I move the motion standing in my name:
That the motion to restore the Public Order and Security Amendment Bill (H.B.11A, 2010) ,which was superseded by prorogation of the 4th session of the 7th Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which it had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 43.
SENATOR MARAVA: I second.
- GONESE: Thank you Madam President, I have this motion
before this august Senate and the motion is simply for the restoration of a motion which was superseded by prorogation in the 4th session.
I would like to explain to hon. senators here present that at this point in time, we are not dealing with the Bill itself, but simply with a motion to restore the motion which we had in the 4th session to bring in a
Private Members Bill to amend the Public Order and Security Act (POSA).
In this circumstance, I would like to make it abundantly clear that at this point in time, we are not dealing with the substance but rather with the process. What simply happened is that, in the 3rd session, the Second Reading of the Bill was not concluded and it lapsed in the 3rd session. In the 4th session, I brought a motion to restore the Bill to the Order Paper at the stage at which it had reached. That also lapsed due to prorogation because at that point in time, there had been indications that there was going to be some discussions regarding the substance. I would therefore urge hon. senators to support the restoration for the simple reason that as a matter of procedure, this is a matter where we normally do not have debate. I have simply tried to explain so that we are on the same level of understanding because others may have the perception that we are now discussing the Bill itself. I just thought it important to try to explain so that we all have the same understanding.
Those who have got a lot to say about the procedure and so on, please hold your guns because we will come to that stage if and when the motion is actually restored. I will therefore say to all senators present, from my experience as a legislator, normally for such motions, you do not even have debate. Generally speaking, you will simply find the mover for the motion simply saying that he or she wants the motion restored to the Order Paper. Thereafter, as a matter of team, as I understand it, the legislators would simply accede to that request. When we now deal with the merits, people can then talk about the substance or can say whatever they want. I therefore move the motion and seek the support of all senators.
SENATOR MARAVA: Thank you Madam President, I stand
here to second the restoration of this POSA Bill. The lapsing of this Bill due to prorogation cannot be any problem to this Senate. We are level headed and of course in our daily prayer here, which fortunately, you, Madam President lead us with, you always say it in a Godly manner that we have to consider all matters that come to this Senate. In other words, you also say that is creation of the job for this Senate so I find no problem whatsoever, in having this Bill restored to the Order Paper.
Thank you Madam President.
SENATOR MUMVURI: Thank you very much Madam President. Madam President, with all due respect, I stand to oppose what was said by the hon. Member from the House of Assembly, simply for the reason that, when this motion was withdrawn, it was in consultation with our leader of the House, one of them, Hon. Chinamasa. Now, Hon. Gonese is coming back to restore the motion without consulting the same person with whom he consulted when he withdrew the motion.
So we are saying he should do the same, some of us remain guided by the other side, that we must get at least some guidance, if they have consulted the two of them, then we would agree to that. Hence we remain guided by that. So I am saying we are opposed to the restoration of the motion as it is now. Thank you.
SENATOR MAKORE: Thank you very much Madam President, I want to thank Hon. Gonese for requesting this motion to be restored back to the Order Paper. My submission is that I do support that entirely, on the basis that some of you do not know exactly where this POSA itself came from historically. We will debate it further, but for your knowledge, some time long ago; it was Law and Order Maintenance Act. This law has to be brought back and be debated again. I am of the opinion that it should be restored on the Order Paper.
I want to thank you so much Madam President, that you have accorded me this opportunity to enlighten this Senate, that there is nothing that stops us from dealing with issues as in the Parliament or in the Senate, which is why we are lawmakers.
SENATOR HUNGWE: I want to first of all thank the mover of the motion Hon. Gonese but actually, Madam President; we are surprised how this motion has been coming to this hon. Senate, since 2010, and Senators objecting to it. Senator Mumvuri has just mentioned the involvement of the Minister of Justice to this hon. senate and that it has been taken over by many events up to this hour.
The mover of the motion has warned us that we should not have our guns ready, but I would like to say our guns are getting loose because of that warning, because it is unusual for anything that is honourable to this Senate, for the people to be given notice about it.
The point is that we have rejected this motion before and we shall continue to reject it up to this hour and later. We know the mover has said, “please do not worry about the content of the motion itself, but just accept that I am moving the restoration of the motion” and he knows very well that it is being objected to by this Senate. It has been objected to, we are objecting it Madam Chair, thank you.
SENATOR MAKUNDE: Thank you Madam President, we are living in a house of co-existence, which is the Government of National Unity. I have heard one speaker saying that the decision of this Senate or those of the House of Assembly are sometimes surpassed. We are supposed to submit to some of these things and I am saying there is an example which has just passed by, the example of the COPAC Draft Constitution. People were not agreeing and later on, it was referred to the Principals and the Principals gave a final say.
I also want to say this same thing, the Leader of this House Comrade Chinamasa and the mover of this motion agreed in this House, that they were going to refer most of these things to the Principals. Today, of-course, we are not discussing about the substance but re-introducing this thing into this Senate, this means we are wasting resources just for the sake of debating, but if we are principled and we want to follow the directives that we were given by the Leader of the House, it means this thing should be discussed at another level, the level of Principals. So I am opposing it, I am on the side of Senator
Mumvuri, I am opposing that the motion be re-instated in the House. Thank you
SENATOR GUTU: Thank you Madam President, I would like to start by thanking the mover of this motion, Hon. Gonese and also the seconder, Hon. Senator Marava and all the other hon. members who have given their submission, either in support of or against the attempt to have this motion back on the Order Paper.
Madam President, I just want to implore my fellow hon. members of this august Senate, the Upper House, which traditionally is supposed to be more humane, less confrontational and perhaps more understanding than the House of Assembly or the so called Lower House. The issue is not to debate the merits and or de-merits of Hon. Gonese’s motion. I think this is where we have to really understand,
that all what the mover of the motion is saying is can I be kindly permitted to have this motion put back on the Order Paper. Once that has been done, all members of this august Senate across the political divide will have an opportunity, if they so wish to debate the merits and demerits of the motion. I believe this is the very essence of democracy particularly parliamentary democracy.
We should not make this House a rubber stamping Chamber because at the end of the day I would wonder why we fought during the time of elections to get an opportunity of coming to be a member of this august Senate. I think it will defeat the whole purpose; the whole idea of having Parliament. I am very mindful of Hon. Senator Makunde’s submission, I appreciate the force of his submission that when we had difficulties with the Constitution making process, the matter was referred to the Principals; who then managed to break the heights until we have the draft which was unanimously endorsed by the GNU.
I would like to believe, with due respect that the COPAC issue perhaps is fundamentally different from the present one because if we are going to say that we deal with this motion, the way we dealt with COPAC, that means we are usurping the importance and functions of this august Senate. We are rendering this august Senate a eunuch, we are just eunuching it. We are making it a rubber stamp, I would like to believe that no hon. member of this august House Madam President would like to be referred to as a Member of a Parliament that is a eunuch; powerless, toothless and just but a mere rubber stamp.
I would like to implore my colleagues across the divide; hon. members of this august Senate to appreciate that we are not going into the merits; it not given that Hon. Gonese’s motion will be adopted – if we all might know it would even pass this Senate but the very idea of encouraging parliamentary democracy would allow us to have the sense of allowing him to have his motion back. When it is debated, it will be up to members of this august Senate to either adopt it or not. If we are going to say we are quarrelling with the issue before we even look at the merits, I think we are missing the point with due respect.
We are talking more of the form and not the content, it is more of the superstructure rather than the infrastructure. With due respect, I would like to persuade my colleagues across the political divide to give this Hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Gonese an opportunity to have his matter dealt with when the merits will be looked into. If he succeeds good luck to him; if he does not, tough luck – that is the essence of parliamentary democracy. With these few remarks Madam President, I would like thank you for giving me an opportunity to articulate my views.
SENATOR RUGARA: Thank you very much Madam President, I
would like to thank Hon. Gonese for bringing this motion here, for the second time. I would also like to remind those of us who have lost memory that we did not debate it; therefore, the content of the matter was not even looked at. This is a fact, I was here, a number of us were here and I do not know where the debate took place.
That is point number one, point number two is to say why should we be afraid of something that we do not know and have not seen. Why should we be frightened of a scum cat; we all know what a scum cat is. We call it a civet cat; the civet cat is supposed to be smelling bad, but if you have not seen it why would you not want to get to know it? What we are saying- I am only using this language to say why do we not allow this motion to come back and we take it head on? Those who do not like it; they have their persuading reasons for not liking it; those who support it will support it in the way they best can.
I think just to reinforce what the previous speaker on this issue said was actually the essence of Parliament; Parliament is debate. Parliament that does not debate is useless really. It is not functioning; if we believe we are here to function, we should be prepared to debate, to look at issues not people. It is not a question of Gonese or Chinamasa, it is the issue of POSA, that is what we want to see.
What kind of animal is this POSA? Is it so pleasant as to be loved or liked? Some people love it but we do not need to love anything; we want to look at issues not personalities. That is why this beautiful Chamber is here. It is not like a mirror shop where we want to see ourselves- no, we want perhaps to hear ourselves. Let us talk; let us debate and then we give value to this Senate. I thank you Madam President for giving me this opportunity.
SENATOR DUBE: Thank you Madam President. The problem is we want this motion to be debated through Minister Chinamasa. I am saying I am very happy; I am one of those people who want the motion to be debated. I know this is a fought for tatty to some of us and we want it be debated in this House. We shall cross the bridge when we reach it, by that I mean after debating we shall find out the pros and cons of this animal which is called POSA. We shall be debating its disadvantages and advantages. Thereafter, if ever it means that we divide the Senate to have it passed we have to do that or it has to be referred to the Lower House. From my own opinion I say let us have this restored on the Order Paper.
SENATOR MANDAVA: Thank you Madam President, I also want
to join those who are against this motion being reintroduced. I respect this august Senate. It is made up of senior citizens who enjoy debates of a constructive nature and avoid controversial issues. I would like to take cognisance of the fact that we are all senior citizens and perhaps our memory sometimes fails us. However, in this instance I think we all remember that Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs, Hon. Chinamasa was in this Senate concerning this issue and after that the Motion was removed from the Order Paper.
For months we did not hear about it, why should we put it back now, is it that we enjoy debates and we have run out of ideas to come and debate? I think from the time Hon. Chinamasa came to this Senate the motion was removed from the Order paper and we are saying today, it is not necessary for it to be reinstated into the Order paper. It should either go back where it came from and be debated there, but with due respect, it is not fair that it be brought back. Therefore, I am joining those who are against the motion being put back on the Order paper. If it has been debated in the Lower House, it can go back to the Lower House. Thank you Madam President.
SENATOR DETE: Thank you Madam President, I stand to strongly reject the restoration of the motion. Thank you Madam President.
SENATOR HLALO: Madam President, thank you for giving me
this opportunity to say something about the re-introduction of this motion by Hon. Gonese. I think there was a process which was not complete and Hon. Senator K. Dube had hit the nail on the head. It was an effort which Hon. Gonese did to try and get POSA to be debated in this august Senate. Hon. Gonese followed the process as required, it was debated in the Lower House and it has to come here for us to debate.
However, for some reason, I think there were some negotiations that it should not come through and as a result the process was not completed. It seems as if whatever reason that made Hon. Gonese to withdraw did not work. I do not think Hon. Gonese is someone who lacks direction. Maybe the promises which he was given in order for him to withdraw the motion were not fulfilled. As a result, he still has that opportunity to bring the motion to this august Senate. We are killing the purpose for which this august Senate stands for. We need to debate the motion and decide on whether the motion should be adopted or not, but there is a process which we should follow. If we do not give him that opportunity to do that, then we are short-circuiting his wish in a bad manner.
For example, if people go to a football match and the other team decides not to come, normally the referees will give that team a decision called a ‘walk-over.’ Madam President, it seems we are not giving the hon. member that opportunity. The process should be completed and the only way is to accept the motion and debate it so that we come up with a decision and due process will follow. If someone says ‘can you hear me,’ there is something I want you to hear and then we respond by saying the Senate will not hear, why should it not hear? It means that there is something wrong. It looks like there are some people who are against the hearing of the motion whilst some are supporting it. It becomes a problem, but it does not solve Hon. Gonese’s request on what this Senate should do. I stand to support Hon. Gonese’s wish, we want to hear him and we also want to participate in this motion. As such, Madam President, I would like us to give the hon. member that opportunity to put his motion before this Senate. I thank you.
*SENATOR FEMAI: Thank you Madam President for affording me this opportunity to make my contribution. I would like to congratulate Hon. Gonese and also support him in his quest to reinstate his motion on the Order paper. I have made a few observations in this Senate. In the first instance, I have heard other hon. senators saying that such cases should be given to the Principals. In as far as I am concerned, there is happiness amongst the Principals, and there is peace.
That is the reason why on whatever motion they have, they do it diligently, speak with one voice and stating whatever they want in unison.
It is surprising to us that there is a division in this Senate. Hon.
Gonese has the intention of returning his motion to this Senate where Parliament is a forum for such debates. As I stand here, I do not even know the good side of this motion and I would like to be educated. I do not know its merits and demerits, but if it is debated in this Senate, I will benefit from the contributions because I will be given the bright side and the dark side of the motion so that I make my decision. How can we refute something which we have not seen?
Let me give you a parable, if you have two people carrying guns and they ask to shoot each other, the person whose gun has no bullets will never agree to such an arrangement. Instead, that person would prefer a fist-fight because he knows that his gun is not loaded and will not be able to shoot back. There is a song which was sung by one singer who said, ‘do not deny anything before you taste it.’ When you are given any food you should taste it first before saying it tastes bad. How can you condemn some beer before you drink it for testing and therefore the other problem we have is that we have a whipping system. We find Africans coming to suffer from things like BP because our elders were given sugar and tasted that it was nice and when the people tasted sugar and found out that it was nice, they were not given the other side of sugar, that it can lead to diabetes. We are dying of this disease because we were told that it can kill us. Therefore, we know that we do not have to rely on a whipping system but we know that we are coming from our constituencies where we were chosen to come and represent our constituencies.
During the election period, you campaign and people vote for you and therefore, we have to make our decisions because we are leaders. Leaders do not just wait for the whipping system because we have different ideas and views. I therefore encourage this House to debate so that we know the bad side and the good side of this motion because amongst the people who are debating, they will be looking at both sides and I make my honest and educated decision based on what has been debated in this Senate. If you have been given a wife, do not deny her because if you deny being given such a wife, you know that there is something wrong. If you turn the offer of a woman down, there is something you know about that woman to make you turn her down.
Thank you Madam President.
SENATOR CHITAKA: When I came to this Senate and saw the Order Paper, using my own research, I thought it was going to be a very routine matter. I was made to understand that tradition in a
Parliamentary democracy like ours is that such a motion is routine. It should have passed within the first two seconds, but obviously, it appears that with our Parliamentary Democracy, we want to set new bench marks, new precedents, which in my opinion are rather sad and bad. It pains me to watch this Senate being divided over a very trivial matter. We should be divided on real issues. We should not be divided on a trivial matter of simply restoring a motion on the Order Paper. We should be divided on the substance of whatever we are going to debate.
Simply having this august Senate divided on the issue of just whether to debate or not, I think we have sunk very low. We have pulled our democracy back.
I would like to refer to an issue that was referred by an hon. senator; COPAC and the intervention of the principals. Yes, the COPAC process was assigned to certain people, us MPs included but the main players were the Select Committee. How the Select Committee found each other was by confronting difficult issues and talking to each other. They did not say because I do not like that thing, we will not talk about it; let us talk of something else. When the difficult issues which could not be resolved were referred to the Principals, the Principals did not say we are going to decide for you. They only unlocked the mouth, they threw it back and said go and find each other. You do not find each other by turning your back and trying to pretend that the problem does not exist, like we are trying to do in this case. We will not find each other.
This country was moving forward. This Parliament in particular was moving very well forward. We were actually the leaders as far as dialogue, the different parties and the people of Zimbabwe together, but we will not bring our people together if we shy away from simply putting a motion on the table back on the Order Paper.
This motion was never taken off the Order Paper, as some members have tried to make us believe. The original motion lapsed; a motion was then introduced to restore it back on the Order Paper. That motion lapsed and this is the same motion that Hon. Gonese is trying to get restored on the Order Paper. How will it look? The Lower House, whom we sometimes look at and say vapfanha avo, are not level headed. They debated this issue; they did not shy away from it. How is it going to look when this Senate then turns its back and says we will not talk about this one because we have difficulties? What difficulties?
If the young people down there can debate these difficult issues, why are we shying away? We are supposed to be the wiser of the two
Houses. If we go back to our traditional way of things and justice, I do not think there is ever a case when a mambo will ever say ‘we do not talk about these issues in my dare, we do not talk about this because it is too difficult. I will rule that these issues will not be brought’ because if we had done that our society would not have developed to where it is. Now I have very strong traditional ways of doing things because no subject was taboo, everything was brought out in the open and debated. So, what are we trying to achieve? At the end of the day we will go there and beat ourselves on the chest and say ‘tavadya, we have blocked it’ but what have we achieved as the Senate, as the people of
Zimababwe. We are going down in the History books and it will be said these wise old people were so scared, they did not know. They were so scared they did not want to debate a very simple issue, to even put a debate on the table and then crush it one way or the other to show their wisdom.
The Principals did not suppress debate or say we do not talk about this because it is difficult, we do not want this, take it back to COPAC. They confronted the difficult things. Why Zimbabweans are where we are today in the GNU or wherever we are cooperating, it is because we have found each other by talking to each other. So, I am saying let us continue to talk to each other. If there is something good or bad about this Bill, it will come out but if we reject this request to put back the motion on the Order Paper, we are going to look very bad in the History books of Zimbabwe. Thank you.
+SENATOR CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Madam President for
affording me this opportunity to make my contribution on this debate. Since everyone is talking about democracy I am also one of those people who are turning down the return of this motion into this Senate. Therefore, my voice is this motion should not be returned on the Order Paper, thank you Madam President.
+SENATOR MTINGWENDE: Thank you Madam President,
my colleagues in this House have debated and I thank the member who introduced this motion, that the motion of POSA be reintroduced in the House. I have risen to make my contribution on this motion where we find that Hon. Gonese wants to restore this Public and Order, Security Amendment Bill on to the Order Paper. So that we may debate so that if Hon. Gonese is lucky, the motion will be adopted. If he is unlucky, the motion will be rejected. Madam President, we are senior members. The Senate is made up of the elderly because what I know is, members who were elected into this House were members who were mature, who are 40 years and above and therefore these are mature people. Therefore, what I know about being in this House is that, we did not come to try our luck but we have come to make laws for peace, order and good governance of the country.
Therefore, if hon. Gonese simply wants this motion restored on the Order Paper so that he tries his luck, then I think Madam President, this motion was not on the Order Paper and it was not on this Paper and when it was removed from the Oder Paper, Hon. Gonese was in this House. Therefore, my request to Hon. Gonese is that, he should let this matter rest because we have many issues to debate. Thank you Madam President.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Hon. Senator
SENATOR JACOB: Thank you Madam President, I also rise to make my contribution on the motion raised by hon. Gonese and I have been listening to debates made by my colleagues and I support them. I may quote Hon. Femai and Hon. Gutu who have said, when you are in this House, we are not just supposed to be rubber stamp. And therefore, you find Hon. Gonese from the lower House, has come to advise the upper House and what has been said by hon. Gonese. Do we have to follow what hon. Gonese says and what we are now going to see is, if we feel that we do not need POSA, it will be up to us as the august House to prove it that we need this law and we introduce it on our own.
We do not want to be mis-guided by somebody from the lower House.
SENATOR SINAMPANDE: Thank you Madam President for
giving me this opportunity for advising my fellow Senators concerning the restoration of this issue. It is only restoring it back to the Order Paper and then you will look into it. That is when you can say you do not need this, you do not need that. That is why this hon. Gonese is here.
So please Madam President, I beseech this hon. august Senate to accept the restoration of the POSA on the Order Paper I thank you.
SENATOR S. NCUBE: Thank you Madam President, I also want to support the motion that has been tabled by Hon. Gonese in this
Senate. I think this is a record. A lot of people read the Hansard. Hon. Gonese, people will hear that this POSA thing came to the Senate and it was thrown away. So we are happy that people read. We do not bother whether others have said no, we do not want it to be taken back to the Order Paper. It is a record people read, they will hear I want to support that this motion be put on the Order Paper. Thank you.
MADAM PRESIDENT: At this point may I just want to remind
hon. senators that this is not just a motion, it is a Bill which has already been passed by the House of Assembly.
SENATOR KATYAMAENZA: Thank you Madam President, I
rise to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Gonese. The motion was suspended and as a result, Hon. Gonese is also asking that this motion be re-introduced back in the Senate. When he brought it in the Senmate he had asked for permission. I remember when he came, this motion was introduced into this House and through the discussion with Hon.
Chinamasa, they looked at it and agreed.
What we now need to do, is go back to the Constitution so that when we study the Constitution, we will see the demerits and merits of this motion, because if you continue to debate this, we may find that this motion has already been brought into the new Constitution and therefore, we could be wasting time by debating something which is already in the new Constitution.
- GONESE: For today I will accept it proudly.
MADAM PRESIDENT: I should ask him to move?
- GONESE: I am simply going to respond because I believe that I have a right to reply to the debate.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Once you reply you have to move.
- GONESE: I know someone will move I appreciate that Madam President. I believe as the mover of the motion I will respond to the debate and thereafter raise a motion.
MADAM PRESIDENT: I keep calling you Senator because once you respond you are then going to move for either adoption or whatever.
- GONESE: I am cognisant of that process. Thank you very much Madam President, I have seen that this motion has generated a lot of debate, as they say Parliament is the theatre of all political activity and today is one such example. I want to thank all the senators who have contributed to the debate on the motion which I brought. I just want to clarify a few issues because it appears there are a lot of misconceptions. The first one is that the motion or Bill was never withdrawn, I want to remind hon. senators that we actually had the Second Reading and there was a debate. Thereafter, there were insinuations that negotiators might want to have a look at the amendments that I was proposing and possibly adopt them.
That was where the matter was. There was never a stage where the Bill was withdrawn. Similarly, the motion that I brought in the last session, after some debate, there were certain sentiments which were expressed that some senators wanted to get guidance from Senator Chinamasa; at that point in time the debate was not concluded. I want to clarify on those aspects, I will not respond to the individual submissions which were made by the various senators. I want to say that at this point and time, let us be clear on one thing. What I am saying is that, if the motion is restored, senators will be able to ventilate their views and say precisely what they feel about the Private Member’s
Bill. Secondly, there are Senators who have made reference to the GPA;
I want to make it abundantly clear that this has nothing to do with the GPA.
We are all legislators and in terms of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, all Members of Parliament are entitled to bring in Bills in their private capacity and that is exactly what I have done. That is why it is called a Private Member’s Bill. It will be a sad day for fellow legislators, for senators who have been elected to represent people in this august Senate to stifle my attempts to bring in a matter which is of great concern to the majority of Zimbabweans. This debate itself illustrates the point that this is a matter which is of great concern and very important for the people of Zimbabwe.
If the motion is restored, that is when I will then explain why we were not able to have the matter brought in through the GPA negotiators and why I have exercised my constitutional right as a member to try to have this august Senate to debate on the merits and come to a pronouncement which does not have to mirror that which happened in the House of Assembly. All the senators will have an opportunity to ventilate the views of their constituencies and have their say on this particular motion. For these reasons Madam President, I will implore that this is not a matter which should be taken on a partisan basis. To colleagues who have opposed this and it is clear to me that they have not applied their minds that this is a time when we have got to put our political hats aside.
Let us look at this matter as Zimbabweans, he who will be able to say that by bringing this Bill, you are violating the GPA, you will have your say. If you feel that POSA is the most beautiful animal in the world, you will also have your say. If, as I believe, POSA is an ugly animal which needs to be amended so that it is better than what it is, then those people will also have their say. It is not the end of the world that if we adopt this motion then we have acceded it to the Private
Member’s Bill, what we are simply doing is to go to the next stage.
It will be at that stage that everyone will be able to say what they think and feel about POSA. With these few words Madam President, I would like to urge all members of this Senate to support the restoration of the motion to the Order Paper.
SENATOR CHITAKA: Madam President, I move that the
Senate be divided.
Bells rung
Senate Divided.
MADAM PRESIDENT: The question upon which the Senate is dividing is the motion by Hon. Gonese to restore the Public Order and Security Amendment Bill (H.B.11A, 2010), which was superseded by prorogation of the 4th session of the 7th Parliament and the question is, that it be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which it had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 43.
SENATOR RUGARA: Madam President, I just want to be clear.
If someone does not feel like casting the vote, are they not allowed to be neutral?
MADAM PRESIDENT: They should have walked out when the
bells were ringing.
Ayes – 16 – Chabuka K.; Dube k.; Femai.; Gutu O.;Hlalo M.M.;
Khumalo D.;Makamure E.K.;Makore.; Masaba.; Muzerengwa T.S.; Ncube S.; Rugara K.; Sibanda A.; Sinampande.
Tellers: Marava M. and Chitaka P.
Noes – 28 – Chibagu G.; Chiduku R.M.; Chimbudzi A.;Chisunga;
Chitanga; Dete A.A; Gampu I.V.; Hungwe J.D.; Jacob E.; Katyamaenza
V.; Mabhiza G.; Mabika J.T; Makunde T.;Manyeruke J.;
Masendu;Mbambo L.;Mtshane L.K.; Mtingwende T.; MuchenjeV.;Musarurwa E.M.; Nebiri.;Nembire;Ngungumbane; Ntabeni;Nyamukoho;Shana N.Z.J.
Tellers Mumvuri D.D.E and Mandaba M.I.N
MADAM PRESIDENT: Order hon. senators. Everyone who is in this Chamber is a Senator by law, so they are free to vote either way they feel like.
Senate resumed.
Motion put and negative.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th February, 2013.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF VICE PRESIDENT
JOHN LANDA NKOMO
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion of the Tragic and
Untimely death of Hon. Vice President John Landa Nkomo.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS (MR. GUTU): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 20th February, 2013.
On the Motion of the DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND
LEGAL AFFAIRS, the Senate adjourned Four O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 20th February, 2013
The Senate met at Half-past Two
o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MADAM PRESIDENT in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM PRESIDENT
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
MADAM PRESIDENT: May I remind hon. senators to switch
off their cell phones before the commencement of business.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
*SENATOR MTINGWENDE: Thank you very much Madam
President. Let me start by thanking the member who raised this motion and supporters of this motion. The motion was raised by Senator Chief Mtshane Khumalo.
Madam President, in the speech given by His Excellency, Cde R.G. Mugabe, he talked about agriculture. Let me talk about what is happening in Gokwe North as far as farming is concerned. Farmers were not able to carry out their farming activities because of the illogical way in which cotton was sold. In Gokwe North, cotton is one of the cash crops that farmers grow.
The price paid for cotton was depressing; hence, farmers were not able to plough back their funds. As a result, you find that the hactrage reserved for cotton was reduced and this reduction in the hactrage for cotton has negative results in the economy of the country. Cotton has a lot of bi-products, therefore, if little cotton is harvested, there is going to be a negative impact on our industry, especially the clothing factories.
Farmers have a lot of complaints regarding the way cotton was auctioned; as a result, we have few farmers who are prepared to grow cotton. We received excess rainfall which led to the leaching of the crop. This means, there is going to be a reduction in the harvest of cotton and this will have a negative impact on farmers. Some of these farmers had taken out loans so that they could carry out their farming activities. The poor yields will result in poor repayment of loans which were accessed for the farming season. This is a cascading effect which is very negative in Gokwe North Constituency and what this means is, the growing of cotton will definitely go down. Farmers cannot just work without getting rewards from their sweat.
May I also plead with the Government that they intervene and improve on the prices offered to farmers by auctioneers. If they have adequate funds, farmers will be able to repay their loans and buy inputs for the next season. Madam President, you will find that, what is obtaining at the moment is that the hactrage which is prevailing will not be able to give farmers enough funds to meet their needs. I also plead with the Government to hold discussions with the funding partners who fund farmers so that whenever they are talking about repayment of their loans, they should take cognisance of the fact that the yield was poor.
Therefore they should take measures to ease the burden on the farmer.
Let me now discuss the Grain Loan Scheme. I plead with the Government to re-think on the Grain Loan Scheme, because as I speak now, in Gokwe North, there is starvation simply because the people cannot get access to those funds. You will find that our roads are very bad, as a result the transporters cannot access the areas where these grains are being distributed to and as a result starvation is on the rise.
You will find that not only do we have problems in transporting the grain but we are also talking of the leaching which happened in the crops because of excess rains. Therefore, it means the hectarage yield has been greatly reduced. As I speak now, we hear of some farmers who are no longer going to their fields because everything has been destroyed by the rains.
These farmers also had problems in accessing fertilizers which could have assisted in these excessive rains but they had problems in accessing the fertilizers. Madam President, we have families who are going for two or three days without getting any assistance or access to food. Yes, in our culture we believe in traditional sharing but as we are discussing now, there is nothing that people can share. Nobody has yet starved to death but that could be happening in the near future. Therefore I plead with the government to take measures to improve on the redistribution of the Grain Loan Scheme. Thank you.
*SENATOR MAKORE: Thank you Madam President, let me make my small contribution on the motion raised by Hon. Chief Mtshane.
Let me say most of the issues were debated in the past but what I want to put across is that we need to put all our attention on agriculture because it is the main-stay of our economy. Therefore, it needs great support from us. We know that in some areas, the agricultural situation is not as bad as it is in other areas but we need to take some measures to preserve this.
However, we have challenges which we are facing; and first amongst the challenges is that, we have to increase on our yields so that we retain the bread basket status of our country. Zimbabwe is a country of hard working people, hard working farmers and what I encourage fellow members and fellow countryman is that, whatever it is you are doing in farming activities, please work hard and produce the highest yield.
Secondly, we need to get the encouragement that we will work hard in our farming activities. One other important thing is that, we need to have training from our demonstrators (madhumeni) so that we share this method of farming which is modern and will lead to high yield in our farming activities. If you get enough funds, you will develop, starting with your family, your district and your nation. You can also be able to take children to school and they will get education because as far as I am concerned, in the past, the farmers who were good were living better lives. Hence let us be serious in our farming projects, let us be serious in funding our farming activities and let us also be serious in the training of better farming methods.
Madam President, may I go to the Higher and Tertiary Education whereby we talk of universities and colleges. We need to have more scholarships to be accessed by children who want to go to those tertiary institutions. Some of the people who go to those tertiary institutions need to be supported by us as parents and the state, so that if there are any funds available, to progress their education, they should easily access them. It is quite a pity to find out that because of the hardships these children face at the universities, they end up living lives which are not worth for students because they will be trying to fend for themselves. They will end up indulging in illegal and illicit activities. Therefore, we need to take measures that will support these education facilities so that they focus on their education and try to support themselves not using illegal and illicit methods. If we let them do that, they will be a disgrace to the country and therefore we need to access these monies. Hence we need to work hard in looking for funds so that we support the education of our children.
Madam President, I will now talk about mining; the President talked of mining and said the country can have a healthy and economic life through our mineral resources. We get money from mining; we have mines that can fund all our projects. We need to support areas which have minerals so that we benefit from these, through the funds which are obtained from mining. Zimbabwe is not a poor country but I do not think it augers well for Zimbabwe to have people who die of starvation or people who walk naked because of poverty. Our country is a rich country and what we really need is to be accountable for whatever mineral that we get. I am one of those farmers who have dogs; I find that at times when I am feeding my dogs, the biggest dog would threaten smaller ones, especially when I give them sadza with nice soup. The biggest dog would eat first; when it is full, others may come in. This shows the greediness of the dog, but in Zimbabwe we believe we are one people, one nation. We are a people who have a very good track record.
You would remember that during the struggle for our independence, every one of us played their role in their own way. What this means is, whatever we get from our wealth, we need to share it equitably and we need to work hard so that we have more yields, hence more profits. What we need to do is, let us manage our mines forcibly. We need to take care of our minerals; we need to take care of our mines; we need to take care of our wealth. Let us not be divided on partisan lines because the party is not the nation. We know that we have had many parties in the past; these have been dissolved but the country, as Zimbabwe, has remained. Therefore, let us be proud of being Zimbabweans and share our wealth equally, whatever we get.
It is important for every one of us in this country to know that
Zimbabwe will be a wealthy nation if we work hard together. I know some people have this misconception that in order for you to be wealthy, you have to be a politician. I want to tell you that, we cannot all be politicians because if a country is full of politicians only, it will go down the drain. We need to play our different roles for the benefit of our country.
The President went on to say that when you are a farmer in the cotton field, do your best in that. We all know that when you are in the field of farming, you look forward to getting a good yield. A good yield leads to good cash in your pocket for the benefit of your family and your country. We need to be forward looking for the progress of our country and we also need to share whatever we get. I would like to thank the President for this speech which prompted the growth of our country.
Let me conclude my speech by saying, we have people who misinterpret some of the things in the country. We know that in our culture, you can never take away somebody’s advantage or gift; it is his to keep. We cannot be all equal but we need to keep a culture of equality, mercy and hardworking. Therefore, what this means is, if we see that some of us are going astray, regardless of their age, they need to be given good advice. We know that an old person is a role model and if he has a bad mouth; he would be a wrong role model. Therefore, we need to think of Zimbabwe first.
When I talk about this, I talk of violence. Is it really worthwhile for us as Zimbabweans to preach the gospel of non violence amongst the youths. We need to give our youths a better future and show them that whenever they are in any differences, they cannot be solved through violence. Difference should be solved through dialogue. The President talked against violence – what we need is that whenever we meet, despite our different political parties, we should talk about our differences in peace. As role models, people should see that we are denouncing violence. Since our President denounced violence, we should also denounce violence.
I remember when I attended the funeral of the late Hon. John Landa Nkomo, we enjoyed the gospel of peace which was preached there. We enjoyed the music delivered by the Seventh Day Adventist. This only shows us that in whatever it is we do, let us know that we belong to God. Whatever we are doing God sees everything, even if it is done in darkness, God is there. The Almighty is there and what he wants is to see people live in peace and harmony.
We know that this country came through the ‘gun’ and what we now need is peace. People should be happy in Zimbabwe. When you are happy, even your face shows that you are living a happy life. Your smile shows that you are living a happy life; your complexion shows that you are living a happy life. Therefore, what we need to do is share the little that we get. Also, let us work hard for our country to develop.
Thank you very much for this opportunity Madam President.
+SENATOR NCUBE: Thank you Madam President, I also want to
thank His Excellency, Hon R. G. Mugabe for his Speech. I will just pick one or two things, which are indigenisation and education. I realise that when it comes to indigenisation, the President touched a lot, especially to those who know how it works. I thank the President, if we realise that as Africans, we are able to help ourselves and work using our own hands; not only depend on being employed.
You would realise that when I look at the illegal gold panners, it is unfortunate that I am going to say this in the absence of Governor Mathuthu for we come from the same area. She was going to support me on what I am saying. When you travel along Bubi road from
Bulawayo to Nyathi; from Nyathi to Lilly mine. I left the rural areas in
1977 when I completed my grade 7 and moved to Bulawayo. The illegal gold panners were not there yet. When I grew up and got married, that is when I stayed for a long time without going back to my rural area. Now when you go to my rural area from Lilly area to Magaya area, there is an area that used to be a farm where we used to go and see the stone where they claimed that gold was found.
During that time we were not allowed to dig but just to see. Later, because of the cleverness of people, they then started gold panning in that area. What we realised is that the area has been degraded. When we went there to lay the tombstone of my mother, I realised that we were not even able to find our way back because people have destroyed the area. They have destroyed even the fenced area that was there. It is only the people within that community who can now identify the road that leads to the main road. That place is now degraded. It is one area where, if we talk about indigenisation, we should try by all means not to destroy it, but it is being destroyed.
During the rainy season, potholes are created such that the road becomes unusable because of its condition. As much as it is important for people to work for themselves, I would like to urge the government to educate people on the conservation of the soil so that degradation of the soil will be limited. On education, you will realize that those who spoke before me have mentioned the fact that most form four candidates did not produce good results. If we were to compare those candidates who first sat for their ZJC before sitting for their ‘O’ Level exams and those who just sat for ‘O’ Level, the latter’s English is not as competent as that of the former.
During my Grade seven, we were told that if you are not able to go to F1, you will not go to F2. F2 schools used to be schools like Mpopoma and Mzilikazi and constituted those children who were not able to produce good results. I would like to urge the government to seriously check on what the children are doing. As parents, we have the same responsibility as that of government of checking on what our children are learning. We are gifted in different ways.
We should realize that sporting activities like soccer were not supported that much in the past and it was difficult for children to make a living from such an activity after they leave school. Teachers should identify the different gifts that children have. From the different clubs that were in schools in the past, children were able to make a living out of that. There were also clubs that were there for school leavers which helped them to make a leaving. If you take note of Emaphandeni High school, sometime back, it used to be a school that catered for home craft and most of us managed to make a living from what we learnt there.
However, our government has neglected that.
Even from our new Constitution we have highlighted that, therefore the government should cater for those who are not able to read but have different talents and are able to make a living out of their gifting. However, as much as they can produce their home craft products, they still face a challenge in identifying markets. You will realise that when tourists come to our nation, they are interested in our home craft products. The government should take note that some of our children are able to make a living from making home-craft products, thus a market place from where to sell these products should be created.
You will realize that a class would have approximately 46 to 48 pupils. A school would have a total of 4 to 5 classes for A-Level; they can all pass with ‘A’s. If we take for instance in nursing, where the posts were frozen and now they have been opened, the total number of trainees is less than the number of qualified candidates. Long back
when someone was at school, they would know that after school they would be able to get a job relating to what they would have been trained
for.
We realize that nowadays, people go to school so as to get qualifications that will quickly give them a job. We also realize that when a nurse is going for training, it is not the job that they would have desired, ultimately they will even harass the patients because it is not something that they are doing whole-heartedly. We all have different gifting that we have been given by God. Therefore the government should take note of that and find a way of how to assist children who are not gifted in reading books.
These children may be very good at using their hands to produce so that in the the end they are not stranded. You would realise that nowadays, most of our children spend so much time on the internet as a way of entertaining themselves, worse off with the coming in of Facebook. There is a lot of danger that these children are exposed to, especially over Face-book for they will be chatting with people whom they do not know.
A lot has been said but all that we are urging the government is that, they should find a way of identifying the different gifting that are in our children, especially using their own hands. They can also reintroduce the schools that dealt with only home craft lessons, which were also called F2 schools, where they used to screen in a way that, if you do not pass your Form 1, you were unable to continue to Form 2. Therefore, it is important that ZJC is re-introduced so that the students would be able to academically measure themselves. This will enable them to conclude on whether they are able to continue to the next level of their education. This will also assist in encouraging the students to work hard knowing that, if they fail their ZJC, they will not continue to the next level. With this new system, there are cases where people have forged certificates in order to get a job.
MADAM PRESIDENT: Order hon. member, you are speaking
too fast for the interpreters, may you please slow down a bit.
SENATOR NCUBE: Thank you Madam President, what I was
saying is that the government should take note that, it is not everyone who is gifted with the books. However, some people are able to make a living from what they do at their homes. What the government can do is to bring back home craft to the schools so that those who are not able to make a living from reading their books can try and do so using their hands. If they have learnt something from home craft schools, they are able to make a living or sell what they would have produced to other countries.
Our country attracts tourists and most of these tourists are passionate about the home craft things like mats, doilies, and materials for home décor. Most of these things from home craft are beautiful and most people like them. I also want to urge the government to bring back the ZJC so that children can be screened from ZJC to ‘O’ Level. This gives an opportunity to the children to weigh their performance in order to move forward to the next level or repeat. I urge the government to seriously take note or identify the old schools which used to have ZJC.
We have so many children and therefore cannot afford to build new schools which can cater for ZJC.
It is not everyone who is going to pass, if everyone passes, are they going to get the jobs? We realize that at one time, posts for nursing were frozen, but they have been re-opened yet few children are going to enroll for nursing because of the crisis of jobs. I therefore urge the government to take note of the fact that, even the issue of indigenisation that we have spoken about still points back to empowering children to use their own hands to make a living. With those words Madam President, I thank you.
*SENATOR CHIEF CHISUNGA: Thank you Madam
President, for affording me this opportunity to make my contribution. May I also thank the members who moved this motion for debate? Let me start by adding my voice to the Presidential speech. I feel that I have to add my voice to this because we know that the Constitution of this country gives freedom of expression and freedom of association.
Therefore, we find that those that belong to the Organ of National Healing have a slogan, which says ‘Peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us’. What this means is that we should start from the chamber as hon. Members, to preach the gospel of peace. We should also talk of ways and means of solving our differences in peace.
The President talked about non violence looking at the period we are approaching, whereby, we will soon be going to the elections and during our campaigns we should not promote violence, we should not talk of hate speech but we should talk of peace.
I will talk about what happened in here, in this chamber, because what happened yesterday in this august Senate promotes violence and misunderstanding. When there was the division in the Senate, there were some sentiments which were echoed here. As chiefs we were asked to show where we belonged and as a chief I also find that I now do not know where my position stands, because it shows that there are people who are bent on causing violence. As far as we know, our
Constitution says, in Zimbabwe you have freedom of expression and freedom of association. Therefore, even when I am in this Senate I also have the freedom of expressing my feelings without fearing that someone will come and accuse me of belonging to a certain partisan grouping. I find that what was echoed yesterday was violence against the chiefs because it shows that you should belong to a certain party.
I believe in that the Senate is the Upper House. It is honoured to have the elderly of the community and therefore, we should be the people who are the forerunners in preaching the gospel of peace. When people hear us talk they should say our elders have spoken, our elders are speaking of peace but now if we find that as elders, we are promoting hate speech, it means we are preaching the gospel of violence, of fighting and of hate. Therefore, Madam President, I stand up to add my voice, to preach the gospel of peace as stated by His Excellency.
We are now living in harmony and peace because we have gone through the period of fighting. We also find that if we, as the African people of Zimbabwe are to discuss our totems, we will find that we are intertwined. We are the same people because our totems maybe said in
Shona, Ndeble, Kalanga or whatever but we belong to the same totems. Yes, we may differ in our understanding but as chiefs we do not support a few individuals, as chiefs we support the voices of development in the country and I should support without fear or favour.
When the President delivered the speech, the President was quite aware that a country at peace is a country of development, and a country of violence is a country which has no development because there would be a tug of war. It does not mean to say, as people of Zimbabwe, we need to think alike, no. We can have divergent views but we have to agree to disagree. Even in a home setup, you will find out that the husband and wife do not have to necessarily agree on everything but they should agree to disagree. That means, even in our political circles, we should also be able to accept the voice of those people who have different opinions from us. I thank the President for preaching the gospel of peace, especially at this juncture when we are heading towards elections. Peace begins with me, peace begins with you and peace begins with all of us.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 21st February, 2013.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF THE HONOURABLE VICE
PRESIDENT JOHN LANDA NKOMO
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Tragic and Untimely Death of Hon. Vice President John Landa Nkomo.
Question again proposed.
SENATOR MUMVURI: Thank you Madam President. Let me
start by thanking the mover of the motion, Senator S. K. Moyo and the seconder, Senator Mandava. They brought an important motion in which they allowed us to debate the life of the late Vice President. Madam President, I wish to join a long list of all those hon. members who have already debated this motion, paying tribute to the gallant son of the soil, the late Vice President Senator John Landa Nkomo.
I just want to reiterate that he was not just an ordinary man. To me the late VP was a humble, respected, unassuming and a very honest politician. I cannot agree more Madam President, with those of us who have already debated, who described the late Vice President as a peace maker, a unifier, a dedicated and forthright person who appealed to all Zimbabweans across the political divide. Like many others who are in the top hierarchy of leadership today, we are told that the Vice President John Landa Nkomo was a teacher by profession. I am personally very proud to be associated with him and other colleagues who are still living and are former teachers because I am also a teacher or a Rabi by profession. I remember I have got a small incident in which he appealed to me personally.
Sometime back when I was coming from Namibia on Government business, I met the late VP who had visited South Africa. We met at O R Tambo Airport in Johannesburg and I assisted him to carry his bags to the VIP lounge. When I got to the VIP lounge, he entered, I remained back with the bags. In other words, I was refused entry because I was not a VIP because I was carrying a green passport, not a diplomatic passport. He talked with the people at the gate nicely and reminded them that I was also a Member of Parliament from Zimbabwe and they allowed me in through his persuasion. Then we waited for the flight together, enjoying the refreshments before we caught the flight back home.
That incident, I felt touched by that gesture. He could not let me out but again, it is a reminder that we MPs, when we travel out, we do not have diplomatic passports. But you find out that other MPs from other countries travel on VIP diplomatic passports.
Even Swaziland and Lesotho. My point is, he carried me into the
VIP when I was not supposed to be there and then we boarded the plane together back home. My admiration and respect for the late VP, Madam President and other pioneer nationalists who grew when I become aware that, on the diplomatic front, the late Vice President was a delegate to several conferences which were held in an effort to solve the Rhodesia crisis then.
He was a delegate to the Geneva Conference in 1976, he was a delegate to the Malta Conference in 1977 and he was also a delegate to the Lancaster House of 1979 which finally brought about independence in Zimbabwe. As one of the speakers has already said before me that, it is because of selfless sacrifice of such icons like the late VP that we are here today in this House, it is a fact. So, we want to pay tribute to that. I further pay tribute and respect and admire Hon. J.L. Nkomo due to the fact that he, together with our own current Deputy President of the Senate Hon. N.K.Ndlovu, survived a bomb blast which took away the life of J.Z. Moyo in Lusaka in 1977.
We paid tribute to that. What a great feat it was. These are true living and departed heroes which we must emulate indeed. I therefore say, may his soul rest in peace. Before I sit Madam President, the late VP left us a legacy through which we can always remember him and pay tribute by practicing lasting peace. It is now well known that he popularized the saying which goes – you can join me; peace begins with me, peace begins with you, peace begins with all of us. Thank you Madam President.
+SENATOR NCUBE: I thank you Madam President, I also
want to add my voice on the motion that was moved by Hon. S. K. Moyo and seconded by Hon. Mandava. I do not have many words to say. I was not really close to the late Hon. J Nkomo, I came from Matabeleland North. All that I want to say is that, I also mourn with others. I know it is not really an issue that we get to be known by those people as it is not everyone who knows me. We realize that as an elderly person who was a leader of the nation and not only in Matabeleland and as Vice President, we are pained especially when he was not feeling well.
I also want to add my voice on that and we even join the Nkomo family when they are mourning during the loss of the late VP Nkomo. I thank you.
.
SENATOR MANYERUKE: Thank you Madam President. Let
me add my voice to the untimely departure of the Hon. Vice President John Nkomo and also thank Hon. S. K. Moyo for bringing this motion and the supporter Hon. Mandava. It greaves the whole nation that we have lost such a person because as a country, we appreciated his presence and his untimely death is really a blow to us.
We appreciate whatever it is he did because he was one of the freedom fighters of this country who were called terrorists by the Smith
Regime. He is one of those people who talked about the ‘Zhee’ in the start of the liberation struggle. He was one of the people who encouraged the indigenisation and the empowerment of women. We find that Hon. Nkomo was one of the people who really worked hard for the country during the liberation struggle, not only that, even after independence. We all know that he worked hard for this country. If we look into the Holy Bible in the scripture in the book of Genesis, God says, ‘I created man’, but we know that there is death because we cannot live forever. We thank him for the part he took in the ruling of the country; he was the Chairman of our party. He was one person who was really approachable and he was not very selective.
He was a humble and dedicated man and we are independent because of people like him. We also miss his contribution because he was one of us here in the Senate. We worked with him and we shared the same views. It really pains us that we lost such a man, but during his funeral there were testimonies to the kind of a man he was. He was a man of the people and a lot of people came to his funeral. In the national healing programme, he was one of those people who promoted the message of peace, we should think about him when we say ‘peace begins with me; peace begins with all of us’.
*SENATOR MAKUNDE: Thank you Madam President, I feel
obliged to make my contribution on the passing on of the late Vice President. I have heard from people who made their contributions of the good works that were done by the Late Dr. Nkomo. He was a unifier and a peacemaker; he was somebody who preached the gospel of peace. I want to thank Hon. S. K. Moyo for bringing in this motion. The words that he said really touched me. I was also touched by the contributions made by Senator Holland when she was talking about the Late Vice President.
He was successful in making the national healing process to be accepted all over the country. During the time of the liberation struggle he made lots of contributions. The people who were fighting for the liberation struggle were divided because some belonged to ZIPRA and others to ZANLA. The Late Hon. Nkomo and the Deputy Speaker were in Zambia leading the ZIPRA. We also heard people who were in ZANU who were fighting and having their training in Tanzania. The leadership of the Late Nkomo made the first move to unite these fighting forces because there were two armies, ZIPRA and ZANLA and they were fighting in different areas.
He asked for a meeting with the commander of the liberation forces, some of the people whom he called to the meeting were Hon. A. Mutinhiri. He called him in Morogoro for the ZIPRA and ZANLA meeting. He brought them together as leaders of the army and what came out of that meeting was a force called ZIPRA. During that time we were given the topics and advice by our leaders who were giving us direction on how the war was being waged. The ZIPRA were trained by the Russians and the ZANLA were trained by the Chinese. They had different tips on fighting but the leaders were able to amalgamate these forces.
There was also another force that emerged and another Indaba was called so that the two forces would fight the same battles together, and they formed one army which was called ZIPRA. It is difficult to bring together armies that are fighting in different areas so that they fight together. We call for the blessing of these people who managed to survive to preach peace today. What we did during that time is what led us to be what we are today and we still need that peace. Though we were fighting in different areas, we were made to believe that the enemy was one and therefore we needed to be unified and win the war. That is why we are still in Zimbabwe, the land of milk and honey.
I want to thank the Late Vice President for his contribution. When we started the land reform programme in the period 2002 onwards, he was the Minister of Home Affairs. During that time, there were lots of fights when people were getting into farms, especially in Svosve area in Marondera. There was pressure from other countries who were forcing Zimbabwe to send the police to come and drive off the people who had come to settle into these farms. The Vice President knew that people were taking what is rightfully theirs. He was also given another portfolio, that of distributing the land and there was peace in the land distribution. I thank his wisdom and courage because had it not been for his gift we could have been fighting and using riots. I am glad people are saying this man is a peace-maker and some are saying this man is a unifier.
Let me conclude my speech by saying, I am glad I have managed to make my contribution on the Late Vice President, Hon. John Landa Nkomo. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND
INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOMENT: I move that the debate do
now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 26th February, 2013.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT, the Senate
th adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.to Tuesday, 26 February, 2013.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 26th February 2013
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m
PRAYERS
(THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: May I remind hon. senators to switch off their cell phones before the commencement of business.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
+SENATOR MBAMBO: Thank you Mr. President, I would also like to add my voice to this motion that was brought before Parliament. I have a few things that I would like to add because a lot was said already.
The President spoke about empowerment. I know Mr. President, and that this is not the first time that this thing has happened. Those who used to rule us some time back, also had their own empowerment. At times I hear people saying that it is not proper for people to be given land. What I would like to say is that our colonisers distributed land to their children and after distributing land to their children, they gave them implements to use on the land. They were also given cattle; there was this thing that was called the Cold Storage Commission (CSC). They would take cattle and give them to their children, after giving them farms, they would give them about a 100 to 1000 cattle and out of those, they would be 50 bulls or so, those 50 bulls were not supposed to die.
So those 50 bulls would steer maybe about 1000 heifers.
These heifers would then belong to the person who was looking after the cattle, that was part of empowerment. Some of us have benefited from the land re-distribution but some people are not happy because they are saying, why were people given land yet they only have one donkey or they do not have cattle at all? But it is better to posses land and to be empowered.
So I am encouraging us as Zimbabweans to support each other and lift each other up. The President spoke about empowerment; we have now been empowered. We were given land and all those people who were given farms should see to it that they are assisted. If they are assisted, they will live better lives because this is some form of empowerment. Some people are saying the new farmers are doing nothing in the new resettlements, but these people need to be assisted by the Government just like what the President said. This is empowerment, we did not have anything long back and there was no way we could possess land. Now that people have been given land, they should be assisted; maybe people from AREX should be sent there to teach the people how to do farming and how to also carry out cattle ranching.
This is a very good thing and I am encouraging all Zimbabweans to embrace this.
The President also spoke about indigenisation, it is also another way of empowerment. Everything that is on land should assist people from Zimbabwe. They should own what is in Zimbabwe. I know that others were empowered long back before us, but now if we talk about 49:51 percent, that is a very noble thing. Here as I am talking, Chiefs were told that they should start another programme which will give them 10% ownership scheme. Some areas, people have started receiving money from mining companies from their areas. In some areas, nothing has been done but where I come from, Bubi district, which is under Chief Mtshane, in October, the President received a cheque from a certain company. People who were gathered there were told of the money; they celebrated, but now five months down the line, we have not received that money. It will seem as if they were talking of something that never happened. I feel if money has been given to the people, then it should be disbursed to the people quickly.
Still on the indigenisation issue, in some areas there are people who have a lot of things and they do not want to share with others. I am not talking about the 49:51 percent. I am talking about the mines. In mines, there are claims; people have pegged so many places. From Lupane, Gwanda and so forth, but that person is not using all those places; he claims that they are his and he is paying for them. I am appealing Mr. President, because people are not happy. People are holding on to claims that they are not using Mr. President.
The President said that people in Zimbabwe should benefit from the gold in the country. People are saying why should someone own several claims, yet some people have nothing. They argue saying that they paid for the claims. We do not want to forcibly repossess those claims but we are just pointing this out because this is one of the issues which the President spoke about. That is why Mr. President, I said I just wanted to add my voice. In Bubi district, people are still waiting for the money that they were promised which was for indigenisation. I have brought this before this Senate because it is difficult for me now to give the people in the Constituency answers. Mr. President, I would like to thank you and to thank the President for what he said.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 27th February, 2013.
MOTION
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF THE VICE PRESIDENT
JOHN LANDA NKOMO
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the tragic and untimely death of Honourable Vice President John Landa Nkomo.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS : Thank you very much Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to say something on this motion. I just –
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order! Order! You are adjourning
the debate.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: I wanted to make a contribution on the motion.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Order! Could you take your seat?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon. Deputy Minister, you may
go ahead.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: Thank you very much Mr. President, I just wanted to give a few remarks on this motion. I would like to give my sincere condolences on the passing away of the Vice President, who in my humble opinion, was a gentleman. Throughout his political career, I never heard him use hate-speech or hate-language. I would like to believe that, that alone distinguishes him from some people who use language that is inappropriate.
The departed Hon. Vice President was a man who went out of his way to talk and act peace. It is important, particularly for my generation and even younger generations to take note of nationalists who have
Zimbabwe truly at heart and love to see this great nation move forward. I think it is an important lesson to my generation, those who were younger than him, those who are of his generation and those who are younger than my generation. We should all take note of the fact that, even if we differ politically, it does not necessarily mean that we have to fight. It also does not mean that we are enemies, have to despise each other, demean each other and at any available opportunity, decry one another.
I am pleased that, here was a man who was indeed a national hero to the extent that, throughout his life – I remember following debates for many years even before independence, I never heard him use hatelanguage, which to me, is very important. I put him in the same category with other great heroes such as the late Herbert Wilshire
Chitepo, the late Jason Ziyaphapha Moyo, Nikita Mangena, Lookout Masuku and Josiah Tongogara. That calibre of heroes whom you cannot deny their heroism, you can only but marvel at them and you can only admire them. I hope that as this country moves forward, particularly as we enter into an electioneering period, we are going to learn from the likes of departed heroes like the late Hon. John Landa Nkomo and try to play our politics peacefully.
I am pleased that, I, in the company of Hon. Chamisa and Hon.
Holland, attended the church service at the late Vice President’s Milton Park house on the eve of his funeral. I felt particularly honoured when hon. Chamisa called and requested me to accompany him for the church service. I had no problems whatsoever to agree to that arrangement. With those few remarks, I just want to emphasise that, it is important for us the living, to learn from the good works done by our departed heroes.
On that note, may his departed soul rest in eternal peace. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL
AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 27th February, 2013.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS, the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes to
th May, 2013.
Three o’clock pm until Tuesday, 7
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 6th February, 2013.
The House of Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MR SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER
DEBATE ON COPAC REPORT
- SPEAKER: I would like to remind hon. members that the motion under debate is on the Report of the Constitution Parliamentary select Committee on the Progress and outcome of the Constitution Making Process and not on the accompanying COPAC final Draft
Constitution which is only for noting. Debate on the motion on the
COPAC Report should be strictly confined to the provisions of the
COPAC Report itself and not contents of the final draft Constitution. Debate on the contents of the draft final Constitution will only be permitted during the Second Reading and Committee Stages of the Constitution Bill once it is introduced in Parliament after the
Referendum. I therefore, urge hon. members to confine their debate on the COPAC Report.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Mr. Speaker Sir, with your leave,
may I request that question time, both with and without notice, be suspended until Order Number 1 on today’s notice of motion has been dealt with.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
COPAC REPORT
MR MWONZORA: I move the motion standing in my name that
this House:
COGNISANT of the fact that Article 6 of the Global Political Agreement provides that there shall be set up a Select Committee of Parliament to spearhead the drafting of a people driven Constitution of Zimbabwe.
ACKNOWLEDGING that the Committee on Standing Rules and
Orders on the 12th of April, 2009 did set up a Committee known as the
Constitutional Parliamentary Select Committee (COPAC);
REALISNG that the said Committee did undertake and complete drafting the new Constitution of Zimbabwe as provided for in terms of article 6 of the Global Political Agreement;
MINDFUL of the fact that Article 6 of the Global Political
Agreement further provides that COPAC must table the Report and draft
Constitution of Zimbabwe before the Hon. House;
NOW THEREFORE, Adopts the Report of the Constitution making process and;
FURTHER NOTES the draft Constitution of Zimbabwe tablked
before it.
MR MANGWANA: I second.
- MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The draft
Constitution before the House is a product of two important processes. The first process is the process of the outreach in which we asked the people of Zimbabwe to give their views on what they wanted on the draft Constitution. The second process were the key negotiations that were carried on this draft Constitution, among the representatives of the political parties in the Inclusive Government.
My colleagues here, Hon. Mangwana and Hon. Mkhosi are going to touch in detail the issues relating to the process by which we came to this product. Without inviting debate on the content of the Constitution, we think it is necessary that we just, in the process of tabling this draft Constitution, alert the hon. members as to the key provisions of the Constitution. This enables them to direct themselves to some key areas when going through this Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, our Constitution is divided into 18 Chapters. Before we go to Chapter One, we have a Preamble. In this Preamble, we celebrate how Zimbabwe came into being. We talk about the heroes and the heroines of the liberation struggles, including the second struggle that is the Second Chimurenga. We also talk of the need to entrench democracy, good governance and the rule of law. We commit the Constitution to the respect of God Almighty.
In Chapter One, we have the founding provisions. In these founding provisions, we talk of what is Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a unitary democratic and sovereign state. We emphasise this because Zimbabwe is one indivisible republic. Further, under this Chapter, we talk about the supremacy of the Constitution, that this Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic and any law or conduct inconsistent with the Constitution is to the extent of the inconsistence null and void.
The founding value upon which Zimbabwe is founded include the following, the supremacy of the Constitution, the rule of law, fundamental human rights, the nation’s diverse cultures, religions and traditional values, recognition of the inherent, dignity and worth of each human being, recognition of equality of all human beings and importantly in my view gender equality, good governance and recognition and respect of the liberation struggle.
We have in this Constitution used the term liberation struggle as opposed to the war of liberation advisadly. The war of liberation in our view started after the struggle. The struggle involves struggles by such people like Benjamin Burombo, the early nationalist struggles before the actual war commenced. That is why you see we talk of liberation struggle; because the liberation struggle is wider as it encapsulates it talks of those early struggles and the actual war itself.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe shall have a national anthem, a flag, a public seal and a court of arms and there shall be tiers of Government in Zimbabwe. The national tier the provincial and metropolitan councils as well as local authorities. Unlike the previous Constitution, under this
Constitution, all the indigenous languages of Zimbabwe are officially recognized. Every language is as important as the other. There is no dominating language.
We realise that it is important for everyone in our country to be aware of the provisions of the Constitution and this includes our armed forces, our students and the general populace. For that reason we have said the Constitution must be taught in schools as part of the curricular, for training for members of the security forces, the civil service and members and employees of public institutions. Why we have done this is because we want these people to be aware of the rights of the people they serve. We have said that they must be constitutional awareness.
Everybody has a duty to make everybody aware of the Constitution.
Like they say in ZANU PF, ‘Iwe neni tine basa’ – [HON. MEMBERS:
Laughter]-.
For that reason, there is a provision which will be apparent on page 23 of the Constitution, encouraging all persons and organisations, including civic organisations, to disseminate awareness and knowledge of the Constitution throughout society. So everybody has a role to play
in disseminating the Constitution. Chapter 2 deals with the national objectives. This is what we strive to be. We are, at this moment in time, not to as rich as we want to be. Therefore, we have dreams that we may not fulfill today but which we dream of, things which we look forward
to.
Our national objectives are good governance, national unity, peace and stability, fostering fundamental human rights and freedoms, good and sound foreign policies, national development, empowerment and employment creation, food security, culture, gender balance once more, fair regional representation, the rights of children, the rights of youths, and the rights of the elderly. This is the first time in the history of this country where the rights of the elderly are being enshrined in the national law.
The rights of persons living with disabilities, again this is the first time that we are coming with this in the Constitution. The rights of the veterans of the liberation struggle, work and labour relations, good labour relations. We must have sound labour relations in this country.
The right to collective bargaining, the right to fair wages, the right to fair labour standards so that our workers are well treated. Protection of the family is another objective. Then marriage, education, shelter, health services, social welfare, legal aid, sporting and recreational facilities.
Now Mr. Speaker Sir, most people may look at sport as a luxury, it is no longer a luxury in the contemporary world. It is a key aspect of the life of the nation. On the preservation of traditional knowledge and allow me Mr. Speaker to read, ‘The State must take measures to preserve, protect and promote indigenous knowledge systems including knowledge of medicine and other properties of animal and plant life possessed by the local community.
Now, the knowledge that our people have, the traditional knowledge our people have must be preserved and protected. They are only preservable and protectable if they are possessed by the indigenous people. We are saying this because a foreigner may actually possess more knowledge about our plants than a Zimbabwean. Therefore, if we protect them we are protecting them from ourselves instead of protecting ourselves from them. Here we are inward looking in this provision. We protect the knowledge systems of our people.
Chapter Three, it deals with citizenship. The most important thing is that we have categorised citizenship. They are citizens by birth, registration and dissent. A different set of legal rights flow from the designation of the citizenship. Importantly, every Zimbabwean citizen has equal rights. There is no citizen with more rights than others. We established a Citizenship Board and powers of Parliament regarding citizenship.
Mr. Speaker Sir, citizenship by birth is protected 100%. No person can lose citizenship by birth under any circumstances. This is because if
I am born in Zimbabwe, Chivi in the case of my friend Hon. Mangwana, Mberengwa like Hon. Gumbo or if you are lucky to be born in Nyanga like Hon. Nyanhongo and myself, nothing must change that fact. You cannot have your citizenship taken away from under any circumstances you if you are born in this country. What that means is that the so-called dual citizenship is allowed for citizens by birth.
Regarding citizenship by dissent and by registration, then an Act of Parliament may prohibit certain rights on those citizens. Importantly, in
Section 43, we deal with the people who are called aliens in this country. These are people of Malawian, Zambian and Mozambican origin or parentage. They pay tax in this country, they have all the obligations in this country but when it comes to voting we then say they are aliens. Under this Constitution we have said, every person who was born in Zimbabwe before the effective date is a Zimbabwean by birth, if one or both his parents was a citizen of a country which became a member of the SADC established by a treaty signed in Windhoek, Namibia on 17 August, 1992. He or she is ordinarily resident in Zimbabwe. This does away with the injustice that was happening in our society.
Mr. Speaker, I can say with authority that under this Constitution we have the most comprehensive Bill of Rights on the African continent, if not in the whole world. This is because we have protected in the Bill of Rights, both what they call the first generation rights, the ordinary rights like the right to life, the freedom of association, and the socioeconomic rights including the right to education and so on. Under the right to life the death penalty is only returnable only under certain circumstances.
We have the right to personal liberty, rights of arrested and detained persons. Then, a right to human dignity, personal security, freedom from torture, slavery, inhuman and degrading treatment, equality from discrimination. Mr. Speaker, if I may deal on the discrimination clause. We say in this Constitution, no person must be treated in an unfairly discriminatory manner on the grounds of nationality, race, colour, tribe, place of origin, ethnic and social origin, language, class, religious belief, political affiliation, opinion, custom, culture, sex, gender, marital status, age, pregnancy, disability or economic or social status, whether they were born in or out of wedlock.
The last one deals with people not being discriminated on the basis that they are not what some people call legitimate or illegitimate children. A child is a child. Then freedom of conscience, freedom of expression and the freedom of the media is now in our Constitution, language and culture, trade and profession. People have freedom to choose a profession or a trade.
On Labour Rights, we have the fundamental rights of the workers, the rights to engage in collective bargaining, the rights to organise, the rights to form and join trade unions and Federation of Trade Unions and so on. Here we say men and women have equal rights and the right equal remuneration at work. It is not enough to simply say women have the same rights as men. They have the right to equal remuneration at work. We also have Freedom of Movement under Political Rights, again we are talking of the rights to join any political party of choice and to participate in the activities of that political party.
The Right to Administrative Justice, this touches on all administrative organs. We are saying every person has a right to administrative justice. Whenever an administrative decision is taken against a person, they are entitled to be given reasons for that action and preferably written reasons. These reasons must be given promptly. We see this at work, in political parties and other organisations.
Under Section 71, we deal with property in general that everybody has the right to property and they have a right against deprivation of that property. Whether whereby it is land or buildings or even movable property, it is protected. Under Section 72, we deal with agricultural land and we define it as generally the land that we use for our agriculture with the exception of communal land. We deal with acquire of land. How do we do acquisition of land? What type of compensation is paid for which type of land? We were trying to be as truthful as possible to what was happening or what has happened in Zimbabwe, with regards to the issue of the land reform and so on. In our view we were trying to make sure that everything happens as justly and as regularly as possible so that people affected know their rights and obligations.
Right to Education, again Mr. Speaker Sir, is a novel right in our Constitution. We are saying everybody in Zimbabwe has a right to basic state funded education including adult basic education. Basic education is a fundamental human right and we have entrenched it in the Constitution. We also talk of further education for our young people in universities and colleges. They are entitled to state support.
Right to Water and Right to Health Care, are also in the Bill of Rights.
Now, there are certain circumstances under which a State or a Government may derogate from the rights. That is where it can go against the rights given here. We have sought to restrict that and said that these rights can only be abrogated in terms of a Law of General Application. If you are abrogating that right, that abrogation must be reasonably justifiable in a society based on democracy, openness, justice fairness equality and freedom so that administrative organs may be accordingly directed as far as people’s rights are concerned.
We also talk of limitation of rights during State of Emergency and we provide for certain rights that are untouchable even in State of Emergency. You cannot subject somebody to inhuman and degrading treatment and argue that it is a State of Emergency. You may not murder someone and argue that it is a State of Emergency. You may not violate the bodily integrity of people, raping people and argue that it is a State of Emergency. So, we constrict the number of rights that may be abrogated.
Executive Authority is Chapter 5. Executive Authority of Zimbabwe will derive from the people of Zimbabwe, meaning those people who hold ultimate executive authority will have to be elected. Executive Authority is vested in the President who exercises it subject to this Constitution through his Cabinet. There are instances in this Constitution where the President can act alone. There are instances where the President has to act on the advice of his Cabinet. After all, he chooses his Cabinet himself. So, he or she must be able to exercise certain functions alone.
For example, the function to appoint the Cabinet, the President must exercise it alone. We give the duties of the President to promote unity, peace and that he or she recognizes and respects the values of the liberation struggle. The President must make sure that there is protection of fundamental human rights.
On the qualification of the President, he must be a Zimbabwean citizen by birth or descent and must be over the age of 40 years. He must be a registered voter.
On the election of President and Vice President, when there is an election of a President or Vice President, before the election, the President must pick her running mates so that when we go to election the people of Zimbabwe, vote with their eyes open.
- SPEAKER: Order, her or his please.
- MWONZORA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir, - a running
mate so that when the people go to election, they go with their eyes open. They know that they are voting for a President with his consequences. They must know that when they vote for President
Navaya, - [Laughter] – they are accepting the inevitability of the Presidency of Hon. Kachepa – [Laughter]. You will see, that the issue of running mates is further dealt with in the Transitional Provisions and for a period of two elections or ten years, this provision will not apply but other provisions will apply. I will come to them.
A challenge, a challenge to a Presidential Election is only going to be done in the Constitutional Court and no other court. It must be determined within 21 days. The President shall hold office for two-five year terms. We also provide that the appointment of Vice Presidents during the interim period - is picked in the normal way by the President. After the interim period, the transition, then the Vice President will be picked as a running mate whatever system each political party uses. We have not sought to regulate that.
The President is immune from legal and civil proceedings while he is in office. You do not want a President who is always at court. After leaving office, they may be visited with criminal or civil liability and so on.
Appointment of Ministers, the President will pick his or her Ministers and Deputy Ministers and prescribes the conduct of Ministers and Vice Presidents including not to use their position or any information entrusted to them to enrich themselves or improperly benefit themselves or any other person. Hon. members will notice that there is a catalogue of the dos’ and don’ts of our ministers. There are some of the functions that the President may exercise alone, that includes the appointment of the Cabinet, assenting to Bills and calling for elections in terms of this Constitution. There are certain instances where the President must do something, he does not do it with any other person - again, subject to this Constitution, I will come to it.
The President has the power to declare war and after declaring war, he or she must inform the Parliament. If the Parliament is of the view that the war is unjust, unfair, unreasonable, unconscionable and unnecessarily oppressive to the people of Zimbabwe, they may rescind that declaration of war. Once that is done, the President has to take all reasonable steps to disengage from the war. The power of mercy is exercised by the President in conjunction with his Cabinet. This is a typical area where third party advice or second party advice is necessary.
The State of Emergency – again we have stated that there are certain rights that cannot be taken under a state of emergency. We now have an innovation in the Attorney General. We have an Attorney General who is directly appointed by the President. The Attorney General advises the President and the Government. Being the advisor of the President and the Cabinet, he has no prosecuting powers, as prosecuting powers are now with the other body. May I say Mr Speaker Sir, this is nothing new to Zimbabwe. This had always been the case until I think the early 90s when we changed. So we reverted to the order because we thought that if you are advising your Government, you may be called upon to prosecute opponents of that Government and so on. We thought that objectivity could be lost.
The Legislature – Mr. Speaker Sir, the Legislature of Zimbabwe consists of the Parliament and the President acting in accordance with this chapter. In other words, there are times where a President has legislative power, when he assents to a Bill, he is completing the legislative process. That is why we said, the rights given under this chapter. On the nature of the legislative authority – we have retained the Senate and the National Assembly. Among other powers of Parliament or other roles, Parliament must protect this Constitution and promote democratic governance in Zimbabwe. It has the power to ensure that the provisions of this Constitution are adhered to. In detail, we give the powers of the Senate and the qualifications of the Senate.
On the Presiding Officers Mr. Speaker Sir, there is the Speaker of
Parliament as well as the President of the Senate and the Deputy Presidents. They are going to be elected and their elections are going to be presided over by the Clerk of Parliament under the supervision of ZEC. We say in this Constitution for the avoidance of doubt that the head of Parliament is the Speaker of Parliament, the President of the Senate the Deputy Head of Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, there is something that we noticed during the running of Parliament. That is a situation where the ministers and Parliament disagree on the constitutionality or otherwise of a legal instrument, what happens? Does the Parliament’s power prevail or does the minister simply say, well, Parliament, I have heard you, I am proceeding to implement. To get rid of that problem, we have said, in the event of that arising, the matter may be referred to the Constitutional Court which must deal with the constitutionality of the Bill.
The Priviledges and Immunities of Members of Parliament are clearly provided. We have also in this Constitution legislated the
Committee on Standing Rules and Orders as a Constitutional
Committee. It is no longer a committee just established under an Act of
Parliament, it is now in the Constitution. The Parliamentary Legal
Committee again is there. The Clerk of Parliament is there and the Clerk of Parliament, of course, has a limited term of office, six years renewable only once.
Chapter Seven deals with elections, we deal with the principles of an electoral system. We said, elections must be free and fair, peaceful, conducted by secret ballot based on universal suffrage and equality of votes and free from all forms of violence and electoral malpractices. We discussed in detail how referendums and elections must be conducted so that nobody is left in doubt as to how we come out with our elected people. We also made provisions of the Electoral Law and what our Electoral law must contain.
The timing of elections Mr. Speaker Sir - all elections are going to be harmonised and all general elections are going to take place in the last month of a Presidential term. So let us say a President is elected in December 2013, that means the next election must be held between end of November and end December 2018, in the last month of a Presidential term. Of course there are certain circumstances where an earlier election will be called. Let me just deal with that. The President can dissolve Parliament in three circumstances. The first one is the natural dissolution that follows the expiry of the term, that is the midnight of a day before the general election, Parliament stands dissolved. The formal act, this has to be done by the President.
The second instance is where Parliament itself votes to be dissolved. If Parliament votes by two thirds to be dissolved, then the President shall dissolve it and call for a general election. It has not happened in Zimbabwe, it has happened I think in Japan and other countries. The third instance is where the Parliament has unreasonably refused to pass a Budget, that means the Government has been rendered dysfunctional. Only in that instance is Parliament dissolved but even that dissolution is not automatic. It is reviewable by the Constitutional Court at the instance of a Member of Parliament. So if the President dissolves Parliament and a Member of Parliament is unhappy about it, that Member of Parliament can take it to the Constitutional Court. Automatically, the dissolution is suspended until the Constitutional Court has disposed of the matter.
Delimitation – again, that is the work of ZEC. On the
Judiciary we are going to have the following courts, the Constitutional Court, Supreme Court, High Court, Labour Court, Administrative Court, Magistrate Court, Customary Law Courts.
Independence of Judiciary
We have legislated the independence of the Judiciary by putting in what are called in Constitutional law the Bangalore principles of the independence of the judiciary. We have put them in our Constitution as the principles guiding the judiciary. The jurisdiction of the
Constitutional Court, has been spelt out. It has three unique factors, it determines the Presidential election dispute, it also deals with the constitutionality of laws given to it where there is a dispute between the Executive and the Judiciary. It also deals with human rights.
Qualifications of Judges of Constitutional Court We have put there.
Appointment of Judges
What is important here is that we have said judges will be appointed by the President after a certain procedure, judges apply, interviews are held and these interviews are public interviews and prospective candidates are shortlisted, all this is being done by the Judicial Service Commission only after that can a person be appointed as a judge.
We will deal with the issue of the composition of the
Constitutional Court transitional provisions.
Civil Servants and Public Servants
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is a difference that we put in the Constitution. There is a difference between public servants and civil servants. Public Servants are all people employed in the public institutions, but civil servants are people employed by the State in its civilian institutions. Therefore, all civil servants are public servants but not all public servants are civil servants, for example, soldiers are public servants but not civil servants and so on. That is why we differentiated
that.
Chapter 11deals with -Security Services
We put it in a way that we are going to have the Defence Forces, Police Force, Intelligence Services, Prisons and Correctional Service and any other Security service established by an Act of Parliament. What is important Mr. Speaker is that, any military or security organ of the State must be established in terms of an Act of Parliament, so that I do not establish my own militia in Nyanga North and it has the force of law and it can enforce laws, and compliance. We have said that it must be in terms of an Act of Parliament to protect our people.
We are saying neither security services nor any of their members in the exercise of their functions must act in a partisan manner, further the interest of a political party or cause, prejudice the lawful interests of any political party or violate the fundamental rights or freedoms of any person. This is the world over and that security officers must not be active members or office-bearers of political parties. We have put in the Constitution now, the National Security Council.
This is now going to be a Constitutional Board and its functions are given.
Defence Forces are provided in Part 2 of Chapter 11. Importantly, the deployment of the Defence Forces, was dealt with. On the Command of the Defence Forces, we have said the President is responsible as Commander-in-Chief for the operational use of the
Defence Forces. Why we have done that is to make sure that you have one person accountable and that is the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe.
The Commanders of the Army and the Commanders of the Police
and the Intelligence have a limited term of office under this Constitution, just like under the old Constitution. Under the old Constitution, it was four years renewable ad infinitum, in other words, renewable forever and ever. We have in this Constitution provided that there shall be limited terms of office, five years renewable only once.
The same applies for Defence Forces, Police Service, Intelligence Service, Prisons and Correctional Service. We say correctional Service because when you send people to prison - well there are eight theories of punishment anyway, but one of them is that you are seeking to correct a person, you are not simply being retributive, that is why it is Prisons and Correctional Service.
Independent Institutions supporting Democracy
We are going to have the following independent institutions.
-The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission
-The Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission
- The Zimbabwe Gender Commission
- The Zimbabwe Media Commission
-The Zimbabwe Peace and Reconciliation Commission. This Peace and Reconciliation Commission is going to be a Constitutional Commission for a period of ten years from the effective date.
Staff of Independent Commissions
The Independent Commissions have power to employ staff and
subject to law, to regulate their conditions of service.
Independence of Commissions
They are independent and are not subject to the direction or control of anyone.
Appointment of members of Commissions
The appointment is identical to the appointment under Section 100 of the current Constitution. In other words Parliament generates names and these names are then presented to the President for formal appointment.
We have institutions to combat crime Chapter 13, there we have the Anti-Corruption Commissions as well as the National Prosecuting Authority.
Anti-Corruption Commission
The Anti-Corruption Commission will have a number of powers;
Including;
-To investigate corruption,
-To promote honesty,
-To combat corruption,
-Once they have evidence of corruption, they must direct the
Commissioner General of Police to investigate cases of suspected corruption. Once so directed, the Commissioner General of Police must
act.
National Prosecuting Authority
It is going to be established here, headed by the ProsecutorGeneral. Again the conduct of members of the National Prosecuting Authority is prescribed in Section 261.
-They must not act in a partisan manner.
-They must not further the political interests of a particular party or cause.
-They must not violate the fundamental rights or freedoms of any person.
Chapter 14 deals with devolution.
The devolution is about provincial and local Government. Mr. Speaker, this is a topic that took much of the time during drafting because of the interests in that issue. Those who wanted it were arguing that it is part of the democratisation process, after all it is fair that local people have a say in the development priorities of their regions. Those who were against feared things like secessionism divisionism, civil war and civil strife.
We struck a delicate balance on this, also taking into account what the people of Zimbabwe said and we precede this Chapter by a preamble. This preamble tells us what devolution is, not for us to appreciate what devolution is. We said, “whereas it is desirable to ensure:
-The preservation of national unity in Zimbabwe and the prevention of all forms of disunity and secessionism.
-The democratic participation in Government by all citizens and communities of Zimbabwe
-The equitable allocation of national resources and the participation of local communities in the determination of development priorities within their areas; there must be devolution of power and responsibilities to lower tiers of Government in Zimbabwe.” Importantly, we give the general principals of devolution in the
Constitution and we also give the jurisdictions of the provincial councils. Their jurisdiction is limited to social and economic development matters. In other words, you cannot have a provincial council being in charge of defence, Minister Munangagwa, you have nothing to fear now (laughter). You cannot have them in charge of state security and so on. So we have clear terms of reference of Provincial Councils. The conduct of the employees of the provincial governments is prescribed as they must then not act in a partisan manner. They must not further the interests of a political party or cause or prejudice the same.
Mr. Speaker Sir, under this Constitution and this chapter, we have done away with the office of the Governor, we are not going to have an office called the office of Governor. The person heading the Provincial Council is going to be the chairperson of the Provincial Council elected by members of the Provincial Council from a list given by a party with the majority of seats in that province. Then we also dealt with how to remove members of the Provincial Council and let me say Mr. Speaker Sir, that the members of the Provincial Council are subservient to central government. They are under central government.
Again we provide for local authorities in the constitution and the manner of their removal.
Mr. Speaker Sir, under the traditional leaders let me just say Honourable Mangwana will deal in detail with how we came up with this chapter. The Chiefs themselves were represented by a leading advocate of this country whom we allowed to be in the Drafting Committee. So the Chiefs were well represented but we say here the institution, status and role of traditional leaders under customary law is recognized. We give the principles to be observed by all traditional leaders. They must act in accordance with the Constitution and the laws of Zimbabwe; they must observe the customs pertaining to their communities, they must treat all persons in their areas equally and they must not be members of political parties, must not act in a partisan manner, must not further the interests of a political party or cause or must not prejudice the law of particular political party or cause and must not violate fundamental human rights.
Mr. Speaker Sir, functions of traditional leaders – the traditional leaders uphold the traditional functions. We have legislated them but I wish to deal with the function relating to land and you will find that in
Section 282.2 “except as provided in an Act of Parliament, traditional leaders have authority, jurisdiction and control over communal land and any other land for which they have been appointed and over persons in communal lands and or in those areas.” We are limiting the jurisdiction of the traditional leaders, otherwise if we were to say traditional leaders are in charge of all rural land, it means the President of the Council of Chiefs is stronger than the President of the Republic because he or she will be controlling 90 percent of the land. We also feared and here I want to credit Honourable Mangwana with the wisdom because what I am about to say came from him. Our fear was that if we stated to say traditional leaders are in charge of rural land, we will then reinstate the traditional border disputes. For example, the Tangwenas in Nyanga, we would say our Chieftaincy ends in Odzi and Chief Makoni will say no, my Chieftaincy starts at Troutbeck and you will create a venn diagram of conflict. For that reason we found it proper to make sure that we do not generate unintended consequences, after all this is very fair.
Traditional leaders are going to be appointed in accordance with the customs of their communities. We say that because different communities have different traditions of appointments. Most Shona traditions, it is lateral transfer of chieftainship from one house to the other house; in Ndebele it is linear from the King to his Son to his grandson and it goes on like that. So we sought to preserve that by saying that the Chiefs are going to be appointed in accordance with traditional practices.
The suspensions of Chiefs have to be done by the President on the recommendation of the Provincial Assembly of Chiefs and through the National Council of Chiefs and the minister responsible. Mr. Speaker
Sir, we have provided under this Constitution for the remuneration of
Chiefs and particular, we have said an Act of Parliament shall provide for d) remuneration, pension and other benefits of the President, Deputy President and other members of the Council of Chiefs. We think that this is fair and just. What we refuse to accept Mr. Speaker Sir, is to equate the President of the Council of Chiefs to a State President. When we gave the state President pension we said former President will have pension equal to the salary of a serving President. We cannot say the same of Chiefs because the institutions are not the same. Therefore we resisted the attempt to do that. That is why you may have read in the papers that we were not in agreement. Then we have an Integrity and Ethics Committee, an Act of Parliament must provide for the establishment, membership and procedures of the Integrity and Ethics Committee of chiefs. In other words the chiefs want to regulate themselves and the procedures.
Chapter 16 deals with agricultural land. Here it starts with a preamble in order to redress the unjust and unfair pattern of land ownership that was brought about by colonialism and to bring about land reform and equitable access by all Zimbabweans to the country’s natural resources. Policies regarding agricultural land must be guided by the following; then we put that land is an infinite resource and that every Zimbabwean has a right to land so on but importantly we are recognizing the previous unfair distribution of land. It is important in recognizing the unfair distribution of land not to create another sort of unfairness that is what we seek to do. We talk of the rights of occupiers of agricultural land that those people occupying agricultural land have certain rights and we give them in the Constitution. This includes Comrades like Comrade Mombeshora who was given land. As an occupier of the land now you have certain rights in the Constitution. You were given by our government. Then the security of tenure of the agricultural land again is there. It is important that people occupying or owning land must have security. Alienation of agricultural land or people being able to dispose of agricultural land under certain circumstances; we provide for different types of compensation for different people and it is all put in the Constitution. For example compensation for improvements only for certain persons who are non indigenous as defined in this constitution. Where a person is an indigenous Zimbabwean and land was taken, those people are entitled to full compensation.
In our view there was not wisdom in taking land from a deprived person to another deprived person. It did not simply make sense and for most of this land; our suspicion was that there could be a few problems surrounding that. We said we need to be fair to our people and we need to have them compensated in full. Same applies to land protected by the BIPPA Agreements, again this is protected in full and so on; but government can acquire land, of course, subject to the guidelines that are spelt out in the Constitution.
We have a Land Commission and the Land Commission now as opposed to other drafts is now an executive commission as opposed to an independent commission.
Financial matters – this is an area that drafters were also not very well vested with and you will find it very standard form. We put the Principals of Financial Management. Parliament is going to have oversight on all revenue and expenditure to avoid the obvious problems.
We need to state that in order to borrow money under certain circumstances, the approval of Parliament must be sought.
The Consolidated Revenue Fund is dealt with it. The Auditor
General is a very important person and we put security of tenure on the
Auditor General. We also talk of the independence of the Auditor General. Mr. Speaker Sir, we regulate procurement in Government under this Constitution. State resources are for the benefit of the people of Zimbabwe and we all agree and they have to be used in a very transparent manner and one of the leakage areas or possible areas of corruption is on procurement. This Constitution regulates procurement of course in general terms without being administrative.
General and Supplementary Provisions dealing with the interpretation of this Constitution, this is in fairly standard form. We are saying certain words must be interpreted as per this Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, let me go to the transitional provisions and deal with three main issues. The first issue regards the Running Mate. The provisions regarding the Running Mate are not going to be operational in the coming elections and the next elections. In the coming election and the next election, a Presidential candidate chooses his or her deputies at whatever time they choose. They may decide to tell us before the election or after the election, it is up to them but we are saying as at the time that they are assuming office; they must inform the nation of their deputies. And, in the event of a President being unable to continue the term for any reason, and there are varied reasons. They could be where a president simply resigns or is successfully impeached or is incompetent for one reason or dies in office or is incapacitated the party with the President will appoint a replacement for the remainder of that term.
Our thinking was that if people vote for a particular President, they are showing confidence in his party for that term and therefore the current provisions in the GPA will apply where the replacement is going to come from that political party. Tapota, tapota, musazopondanaka, musazourayanaka neprovision iyi. It is a grave responsibility that we are giving and we have said that this must be done within a period of 90 days so that there is certainty in the country. That is provision number one.
Provision number two deals with the Constitutional Court. The Constitutional Court is going to be established as soon as possible, after the publication date but for a period of seven years, it will be manned by the Chief Justice, the Deputy Chief Justice and seven judges of the
Supreme Court. So, seven judges plus the Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice constitute the Constitutional Court but in all their determinations on human rights and Constitutional issues, they sit as a full bench. What we mean is that they sit as nine judges to determine a case and not a situation where judges sit as one or three because judges sit as an odd number. They are one, three, five, seven or nine and sometimes there is a temptation that if it is a case involving Hon. Mahoka for example, we give it to a very unsympathetic judge who will deal with her. We want to avoid that by saying that they sit as a full bench.
Then the third deals with the issue of the National Prosecuting Authority. Again, the office of the Prosecutor General is going to be filled by the person who held the office of the Attorney General before the effective date. This will be for a period of six years renewable, which is the period, a term of office of Prosecutor General.
Mr. Speaker, let me conclude by saying, my colleagues will amplify this point. When we came up with this draft, we were not looking at anybody; we were not seeking to please anyone or any office. We said it is not that we love the MDC less or we love ZANU PF less or we love Mavambo less or we love MDC 99 less or we love MDC Green less or we love Dzinemunhenzva less or we love the Patriotic Union of Matebeleland less, but we love Zimbabwe more. Kane pane abatwabatwa nazvo, it was not intentional. This is what the people of Zimbabwe said.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in our respectful view, this is a people’s Constitution and this Constitution must go as quickly as possible to the people. The debate that is happening in the press is idle debate. It is not what Mwonzora says which must matter. It is not what Mangwana says which must matter. It is not what Madhuku says which must matter – it is what the people of Zimbabwe, the owners of this draft say that will matter.
Thank you very much.
- MANGWANA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. The tripartite nature of our Constitution would have required me to speak first but we became victims of Standing Rules which we could not change. This is why my colleague had to walk you through the draft before we told you the journey. He described the child without telling how the pregnancy came about.
I am here now to tell you how we came to the beautiful document which he has described. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are very honoured to have been given this task to lead this very important national process. You put us into office on the 12th of April, 2009. We were 25 of us made up of yours faithfully, leading the team from ZANU PF, Hon Douglas Togarasei, Mwonzora, leading the team from MDC-T and at that stage Hon. David Coltart leading the team from MDC.
Hon. Coltart had to be replaced by our wise old man, Hon. Edward Thsothso Mkhosi. We always called him the moderator and he played the role which is commensurate with his age and wisdom when the two young men would have fought during the discussions. The old man would moderate and we thank him so much for playing that key role which brought us to where we are. The other hon. members were
Hon. Monica Mutsvangwa (Deputy Co-chair),Hon. Fungai Jessie
Majome (Deputy Co-chair) and Hon. Believe Gaule (Deputy Co-chair).
The other members were Minister Flora Buka,Hon. Chief Fortune
Zephaniah. Charumbira, Hon. Amos Chibaya, Hon. Walter Kufakunesu
Chidakwa, Hon. Gift Chimanikire, Hon. David Coltart,Hon. Edward
Takaruza Chindori-Chininga, Hon. Dr. Jorum Macdonald Gumbo, Hon.
Ian James Hamilton Kay, Hon. Martin Khumalo, Hon. Cephas
Makuyana, Hon. Editor Erimanziah Matamisa, Hon. Tokhozile
Mathuthu, Hon. Tambudzani Budagi Mohadi, Hon. Dr. Olivia Nyembezi Muchena,Hon. Rorana Muchihwa, Hon. Brian Tshuma, Hon. Gladys Gombami-Dube who is now late and Hon. Jabulani B. Ndhlovu who is
also late.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we commenced this journey ensuring that as a team we understood what a Constitution is. We are grateful to the Clerk of Parliament who organized our initial workshop in Bulawayo where eminent juries from within Zimbabwe and from outside Zimbabwe took us through the process of understanding what a Constitution is. We had the current Minister of Finance who was chairing CODESA in South Africa telling us how we could come up with a Constitution. We were also lucky to interact with Professor Reginald Austin, who has undertaken Constitution processes in quite a number of countries in the world including Cambodia.
After the Bulawayo training, we as Co-Chairs and our deputies were also invited to South Africa to understand what processes they went through from 1992 to 1994 when they had their elections and leading to the adoption of their Constitution. We even visited the South African Constitution Court and interacted with the Judges of the Constitutional Court who taught us the role the Constitutional Court played and that also gave us the conviction that at the end of it, we also required to have a Constitutional Court.
The initial phases of the Constitution making process were quite problematic. We were three parties. At each and every time we would go to our caucuses. Debates would go on and on and sometimes the quarrels were meaningless. I think we were trying to find each other – eventually, we did find each other but after quite some quarrels.
We were initially housed here at Parliament being supported by the secretariat of Parliament. I must give my greatest honour to the leadership given by one of the Deputy Clerks who was assigned to be our initial secretariat – Mr. Chokuda. He played a key role in supporting us. We did not have a budget. If anyone remembers, the February 2009 budget did not mention the Constitution making process at all. The revised budget of May 2009 did not mention the Constitution making process at all. It did not even make an allocation at all but we were already in office and we were supposed to be doing some work. We were being supported by the budget of Parliament and we must thank the Clerk of Parliament for availing the sources from his meagre budget to assist the initial processes until we held the First Stakeholders
Conference.
After the First Stakeholders Conference, we then started receiving resources from the donors but they were all being channelled through
Parliament. Once we started work, we realised that we needed working Committees as an institution and so we set up the first Committee which became the Budget and Finance Committee which was chaired by Hon. Walter Chidakwa and deputised by Hon Gift Chimanikire. The other members were drawn from the three political parties.
We also set up the Human Resources sub-committee which was chaired by Hon. Gift Chimanikire and deputised by Hon. Walter Chidakwa. There was also the Stakeholders sub-committee which was initially chaired by Hon. Chindori-Chininga and was then replaced by Hon. Flora Buka when he left COPAC. The sub-committee was deputised by Hon. Rorana Muchihwa.
The other committee was the Information and Publicity subcommittee. This sub-committee was chaired by Hon. Jessie Majome and deputised by Hon. Martin Khumalo. The Legal sub-committee was chaired by our young lawyer Hon. Brian Tshuma, who has done quite a splendid job in that respect.
The Select Committee had clear Terms of Reference given and clearly spelt in Article VI of the GPA. Mainly, the role of the
Committee was to set up such sub Committees chaired by Members of Parliament and composed of Members of Parliament representing members of the civil society as may be necessary to assist the Select Committee in performing its mandate. It was supposed to hold such public hearings and such consultations as it may deem necessary in the process of public consultation over the making of a new constitution for Zimbabwe. The third role was to convene an All Stakeholders
Conference to consult stakeholders on their representation in the subcommittees and then to table the draft Constitution at a Second All Stakeholders Conference; and lastly to report to Parliament.
We did try to adhere to the timelines during the early stages of the Constitution making process. A least we met the first timeline given, that was to be set up within two months – that was done in April. The second timeline was to hold a second All Stakeholders Conference within three months. We managed to do that. On the 14th of July 2009, we held the first All Stakeholders Conference. After that we dismally failed to comply with any of the timelines for reasons beyond our control. Now that is the structure of the Select Committee. It also set up a Secretariat which was lead by Mr. Gift Marunda and his management team. This Secretariat has done a splendid job to provide the necessary support to our work.
I have already spoken about the holding of the first All
Stakeholders Conference; before we held the first All Stakeholders Conference, we realised that it would be very difficult to simply mobilise people from all corners of Zimbabwe and say you are stakeholders and you are supposed to do ABC without them knowing exactly what this whole process was about. As a Committee we decided to visit all the ten provinces of Zimbabwe and hold stakeholder meeting at provincial level. These meetings in some provinces were alright and in some there was a lot of tension. There was so much suspicion. All the parties felt that there must be some hidden agenda somewhere. I remember going to Mutare, we were supposed to have a meeting at 0900. By the time I visited the venue at 0800, one party had filled all the seats inside and all the other parties were outside. I then said that we had come for all parties and not for a single party. That is the kind and nature of suspicion and tension. It was only after addressing them when they saw us together that tempers cooled down and then they began to appreciate what this committee was all about. I must say that it was quite an experience which taught us how we could manage the first All Stakeholders Conference.
After our introduction to all the provinces, we then came to the first All Stakeholders Conference. I will not say much about the first day but it goes in history that it was a day of baptism, face to face with the real Zimbabwe and we said we shall never have this again. I was happy that the second day was quite good after the Principals had addressed the nation and highlighted that we needed to support the process. We were happy about the outcome of that first All Stakeholders Conference because we had called it for only two major purposes. Firstly, there was need to set up the Thematic Committees and identify the Thematic Chapters on which we could structure our outreach. The second one was to agree on the methodology of the outreach in terms of the representation of civic society and political parties. A decision was then then made on three issues that, firstly on all the Committees we were going to have, we would try to adhere to a 50/50% gender representation. To some extent it succeeded, to other extents, we failed because Rome was not built in a day but we tried our
best.
On the second one, a resolution was made by the First All
Stakeholder Conference that in all the Committees we would set up 30% would be made of politicians and 70% from civic society. We also agreed on the 17 Thematic Chapters we were going to have and once that was done, we then said, ‘Okay, we can now embark on the
Outreach’. The Thematic Committees which we agreed to at that
Conference were the Founding Principles of the Constitution; The
Committee on Separation of Powers of the State; the Committee of
Systems of Government; the Committee on Executive Organs of the State; Police and Defence; Elections, transitional mechanism and independent Commissions; The Committee on Citizenship and Bill of Rights; The Commission on land and natural resources; the Committee on Public Finance and Management; the Committee on the Media; the
Committee on Traditional Institutions and Customs; the Committee on
Labour; the Committee on Youth; the Committee on the Disabled; the
Committee on War Veterans, Freedom Fighters; the Committee on
Local Languages, arts and culture; the Committee on Women and
Gender and the Committee on Religion.
Unfortunately, no resources were given to COPAC to go on Outreach. We tried to get resources from Government – resources were not forthcoming; from donors – resources were not forthcoming. We only found a funding agreement with the UNDP in March of 2010. I am not going to ascribe blame on anyone but this is what caused the delay in going for Outreach. We only embarked on Outreach in May of 2010, almost nine months after the holding of the First All Stakeholder
Conference – nine or ten months, that is when we then went on Outreach.
In the meantime, due to the kind of different nature of the Select Committee - Parliament has Select Committees all the time; Parliament can have Portfolio Committees but this was a unique Select Committee which was supposed carryout a national function. We realized and I think, it was realised by the powers that be that maintaining this Committee under Parliament at that stage with the kind of political issues it was supposed to deal with – it would be difficult for it to achieve its objectives. Then we were moved away from Parliament and had an independent Secretariat established away from Parliament but in order to deal with possible conflicts and also policy directions necessary
– a Management Committee was then established to assist the Select Committee achieve its mandate.
This Management Committee was composed of the six negotiators
Hon. Tendai Biti; Hon. Patrick Chinamasa; Hon. Nicholas Goche; Hon.
Elton Mangoma; Hon. Priscilla Misihairabwi-Mushonga; Prof. Welshman Ncube and our Minister of Constitutional Affairs to maintain the correct link Advocate Eric Matinenga; the three core-Chairs were also drafted into this Management Committee. This Management Committee played a splendid role because whenever we had irreconcilable differences – they played the role of breaking the deadlocks. They also assisted us in the meetings we had with the donors under the project Board ensuring that we account for all the resources; ensuring that we get the necessary resources from the donors.
As I indicated, the funding arrangements of the Select Committee were as follows: - we were receiving grants from Government through the Ministry of Constitutional Affairs. At the same time, were also getting financial support from a basket fund managed by the UNDP. UNDP would manage money donated by various donors - USAID; some of them SIDA; FDI and various other countries which put in money – Australia, Canada. They were all putting money into the basket fund and then UNDP would provide the link between us and these donors. We were not interacting with any individual donors directly as COPAC; we were only interacting with the UNDP as the managers of the basket fund. We were also holding Quarterly meetings with the donors, accounting for the use of the funds in the previous Quarter and also seeking approval of our activities for the next Quarter and the funding for that Quarter. Government would give us money as and when the monies became available.
Before we went for Outreach we realised that the teams we had selected which were inclusive, politically required training. So, we held training for our teams. We put together teams of about 700 delegates who were trained – almost about 75% of our Members of Parliament participated. In fact, almost all back-benchers participated as Outreach members, some as team leaders and others as just members of the Outreach teams. These 700 people put together, developed what we now called, ‘the Talking Points’, because before we could go on Outreach, it was important for us to design a Questionnaire agreeing on the nature of the questions we were going to put to the population. People had to respond to certain Talking Points – so, we developed 26 Talking Points together with these 700 people.
After the input of the 700 delegates, we had to appoint a technical team of six lawyers who then supervised the delegates to come up with the 26 Talking Points. We had 210 Rapporteurs trained; we felt that it was important for each and every Outreach team to have a Rapporteur. The Rapporteurs had to agree to see what was in each report, write it together, sign it and have it authenticated by the three Team leaders.
The whole process was to make sure that we recorded accurately what the people said during each and every Outreach meeting that is why we had to have three Team leaders in each team; three Rapporteurs and a Technician to record the proceedings electronically so that if there was any misunderstanding, the video back-up recording could be played back for the avoidance of doubt.
The Outreach process took 30 days more than what we had budgeted. We ended up taking about 95 days but all in all, we held 4 943 meetings in the Provinces. In rural areas, we were holding a minimum of three meetings because of the geographical distance between places in each ward. In urban areas, mainly in Harare and
Bulawayo, we were holding one meeting per Ward. In Mashonaland
East, we held 567 meetings at which the total participation of Mashonaland East was 181 756 people participating at the meetings of which 60 158 were males; 69 733 being females and about 50 000 youths. Mashonaland West, 509 meetings, Manicaland 677 meetings,
Matebeleland South 477 meetings, Mashonaland Central 652 meetings,
Matebeleland North 614 meetings, Masvingo, 622 meetings, Midlands 672 meetings, Harare 96 meetings, Bulawayo 57 meetings which came to a total of 4 943 meetings.
In addition, we held special outreach meetings for the children supported financially by UNICEF. We also held a special outreach meeting for the Members of Parliament themselves. We also had institutional submissions and we received 52 written submissions from institutions and other organised groups. We had special outreach for the disabled. We set up a website for the participation of people in the diaspora.
After we had gathered all the data, it became necessary that we upload this data and save it. We acquired a special server and put in a special programme we called CODATA which managed to collate all the data, put it together into an electronic form and ensured that nothing would be lost. As of now, this equipment is now at Parliament and all that took place has been saved and is available.
Whilst we had the data uploaded, it was now necessary for us to setup thematic committees on each and every one of them to analyse the data. We again selected 425 participants to constitute the thematic committees and we adhered to the principle of 30% representation of politicians and 70% Civic Society. We also allocated 30 and 17 slots to political parties and the Chiefs.
During the sittings of the thematic committees, disagreements, sharp disagreements arose. We could not agree on the methodology to be used. Shall we use the qualitative or the quantitative methodology? But the document we have, which has been read out by Hon. Mwonzora uses both the qualitative and the quantitative. It is now an outcome of both the quantitative and the qualitative. At the end of the day, we managed to strike an agreement but after quite some discussions where we said there will be instances where the quantitative methodology will be appropriate and other instances where the qualitative methodology would be appropriate. We scientifically then applied both to come up with a Constitution which has been read to you.
As I said earlier, one of the difficulties which we had, was how to deal with road reports when you had different number of meetings in wards. In some wards in Beitbridge we had seven meetings. In those seven meetings you wanted to capture what you can say is the ward’s view on a particular question raised in the talking points. Then, you come to Harare, they are instances where we held only one meeting. How do you equate views raised in seven meetings and views raised in only one meeting? So that again became a source of further disagreements but eventually we resolved that.
As you will see from the documents, you will get the percentage. What meaning do you give to the percentage which has been generated by the data analysis which we were carrying out. That again became an issue until we eventually managed to find each other. I must thank the management committee for assisting us to find one another when we had those disagreements which almost led to the collapse of this process
itself.
Now it came to how you prepare for the drafting itself. We needed divine intervention to find a way of coming up with an agreeable methodology of putting up drafting instructions. To say the least, this situation was going to be very easy so we started meeting at Phandari here in town. After meeting at Phandari, we did not manage to actually clear what we wanted in order for us to construct drafting instructions. So we decided to move to Masvingo to the Great Zimbabwe. We achieved some progress in Masvingo maybe because we were under the spirit of Munhumutapa but progress was made.
We came back to Harare, again we failed to conclude our work then we had to move to Vumba looking for wisdom from the East. At Vumba at Leopard Rock, we made some progress but we did not finish the work until we had to visit the City of Kings in Bulawayo. In a week’s time and I believe under the spirit of Mzilikazi and Lobengula, we found each other and created the drafting instructions. It was not an easy exercise to say with all of this massive data, what should go into the Constitution and what should not go into the Constitution.
It is not what everybody said which was constitutional but simply to agree that this is what is constitutional and that this is what is not constitutional was not easy. One wants this in the Constitution, the other one argues that this is constitutional and this one says it is constitutional until we then agreed to say okay, well and good this is what we are going to put in the Constitution. We created quite a number of documents, a document of constitutional issues, I am sure you will see it in your package listing out issues which we generally agreed to be constitutional.
We then looked at the data and realised that there were some gaps in the data that generally people would answer the question what without answering the question of how. We want a constitutional court and we want it to start by judges but they will not be able to answer where these judges will come from. They will not be able to answer the qualifications of the judges. They will not be able to answer how those judges will be appointed.
All these were then identified by our team of legal experts to be the gaps in the information we had. We want two Houses of Parliament. We want gender equality. They will not tell you how to achieve that gender equality in the House of Assembly or the Senate even after agreeing that let us apply the zebra system of man – woman, man – woman and so on in the Senate until we realized that unless we put women on top of men we will not achieve gender equality. So the zebra will start with women on top, men coming with women always on top then we have gender equality all the time. That was the gap. The gap was women on top. That is the gap. That had to be achieved by research to say, how did other countries achieve gender equality even using the zebra system.
Rwanda is leading in terms of gender equality. So you say how did they achieve it in Rwanda. Even during the research one can find a different system from another country than another. You then have to say how do you reconcile these. Negotiations became inevitable. We are not even shy to say whenever we found gaps we had to negotiate after due research. We had to say what is happening in other countries. What are the international best practices? How do they apply to the circumstances of our own country and this required technical reasoning and your Select Committee had to do that.
We respected the views of the people and all the issues they had answered. But where they had not provided us with answers, we had to fill in the gaps by research and after research we had to negotiate and agree. That is why then the process took longer than we had anticipated because negotiations were inevitable. We started negotiating as a team of 25 and we realised that in a whole day you will not agree on anything until we had to say to ourselves, if we are to achieve something let us break ourselves into two groups of Select Committee members.
[Time Limit]
- MANGWANA: We had to set up a Chairpersons Forum,
where the chairpersons would look at all the contentious issues first and try to strike an agreement and make recommendations to the Select Committee. That way we then started making some good progress. After all this, we started the drafting process. We selected three drafters on the basis of their professional competence and these are Hon. Justice Moses Chinhengo, Mr. Brian Desmond Crozier and Mrs. Priscilla Madzonga.
We also created our own supervising committee which was made up of the three Co-Chairs and three legal experts, Dr Alex Magaisa, Mr Godwills Masimirembwa and Mr Josphat Tshuma. The six of us were working together with the drafters to create that platform where the drafters could engage members of the Select Committee and get guidance as they were drafting. This maintained the link between the Select Committee and the drafters so that we could keep a check on what the drafters were doing.
We are happy to say that eventually members of the Management Committee joined us in assisting us complete the drafting because they were quite a number of contentious areas where we needed similar political leadership to assist us come up with answers where this required political direction.
On the 18th of July, 2012, we had the draft. That draft was taken to the Second All Stakeholders Conference and it was commented upon by the stakeholders. The draft, of course, received a lot of media blasting and a lot of criticism from various political parties. We are happy to say at the end of the day everyone adhered to the road map stated out in the Global Political Agreement that all comments had to be channeled through the Second All Stakeholders Conference. We then had the conference and that conference interrogated the draft, made comments to it, proposed amendments and proposed suggestions. We received the report and analysed it.
We realised that after the Second All Stakeholders Conference, we had four areas. First we had the area where the stakeholders did not make any comments and indicated their happiness with the draft without any comments. The second area is where the stakeholders agreed to make changes within their committees to certain aspects of the draft. We factored those changes straight away into the draft before you. The third area is where we were unsure whether stakeholders were actually agreeing or disagreeing. We interrogated each and every proposal and where we were able to glean the agreement the stakeholders were having, we then took that as agreed and put again into the draft. We had the last one where stakeholders were making proposals and counter proposals on each and every point they were raising. This became the most difficult area because you had to weigh the views and say which one do we accept, which one do we reject, what are the reasons for accepting this or rejecting that.
That is where your Co-Chairs spent their Christmas and New
Year holiday at – trying to see how to reconcile the divergent views. Again, negotiations became inevitable. A lot of thinking came into it. A lot of imagination came into it until we were able to get the draft out. What do you say about devolution? What does that one want about devolution? Why is that one resisting devolution? What are the fears? How do we resolve the fears? How do we get the real message we want the people to know? What did the people want when they spoke of devolution? Do they want a separate state? Do they want simply to be involved in decision making and in what manner?
[Time limit]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! In terms of Standing
Order Number 57 (a), the time for debate is exhausted.
MS CHINOMONA: I move that the hon. member’s time be
extended.
- GONESE: I second.
- MANGWANA: This is the area where I said we had to have negotiations. We had to negotiate for four principal reasons. Firstly, sometimes the views were so contradictory that they were so diverse and that there was need to benchmark our document to international best practices.
I had not mentioned that after the Second All Stakeholders
Conference, differences emerged. The principals then set up the Committee of Seven which was made up of Hon. E. Matinenga who was our convenor and Chair, Hon T. Biti, Hon. P. Chinamasa, myself, Hon. E. Mkhosi, Hon P. Misihairabwi-Mushonga and Hon D. Mwonzora.
This is the team which had to finalise the views which came from the Second All Stakeholders Conference and create a preliminary draft for discussion by the Select Committee.
The Select Committee, on the 31st of January 2013, adopted the draft we had brought from the Committee of Seven which is now the draft which has been tabled before you by Hon. Mwonzora.
I must say that this constitution making process is to go down in history as one of the processes which brought about national healing in our country. At our level as Members of Parliament, we were able to look into each other’s eye, trust each other, confide in each other – my friend I have been from my party they do not want this but you shall not say it to anyone. Ini ndabva kwangu, shamwari ndanopiswa saka todii tose tisatsva! That is how we were to confide in each other. As leaders of the 25 member committee, as I indicated earlier, we started with quarrels and by the time we completed this process, you could not distinguish an MDC member from ZANU PF member, a ZANU PF member from an MDC-T member. That is the kind of national healing this process achieved.
In the country side, those who witnessed the Second All Stakeholders Conference could see the peace, tranquility, tolerance and the whole manner in which our people of Zimbabwe were sitting together. That is one of the benchmarks that we achieved through this constitution making process.
We are also happy that you colleagues, when we led you into the outreach programme and all these other processes, you were also able to show that oneness which is required to build a nation. We thank you for that. You showed the way and people followed you.
We had a lot of challenges. One of the challenges was the delays in funding which I have already mentioned. The other one was the serious political polarization at the commencement of the process. That one was resolved with the passage of time and I am quite sure that the mood prevailing in this House is exactly a replica of the mood created by COPAC as a result of the constitution making process.
We also suffered some negative publicity and that was quite a serious challenge. The media assisted sometimes in increasing the polarisation even amongst the political parties who were about to reach some consensus. They would lead the discussions, they wanted to show that this party is giving in to the other; they wanted to report on inconclusive discussions and report negatively. That affected the pace at which we were able to find each other. Sometimes after a report was leaked about what we were discussing, if you had not yet sold the idea to a political party, you could now not proceed with the discussion because your political leaders will call you and say, but who told you to move in that direction. If you had not received a political nod to do so, then the negotiations will not proceed. That delayed the conclusion of our discussions but we have spoken to the media, we have tried to engage them. Of late, I must say, we are very happy. Maybe it is because the process has now been successful, everyone wants to associate themselves with success. We are receiving very positive coverage and we hope this continues until the Referendum. It was quite a challenge.
On the finance side, the process was extremely expensive. The Government of Zimbabwe provided funding to the tune of US$24.7 million. The donors provided funding to the tune of US$21 million. So all in all, this process has cost Zimbabwe, US$45 million. I know people will ask why, but my answer is always simple, democracy is very expensive, people die for it, people pay the utmost price for democracy. We have only spent money and no life has been lost but we have spent money for a cause we think has been good, for a cause which is going to lead our country to prosperity and for a cause which is going to usher in stability in our country. We have accounted for each and every cent and audits have been held. The Ministry of Constitutional and Parliamentary Affairs has always been keeping an eye on how the resources were being used. We are happy that these funds were used responsibly. Our Chairman of Finance, Hon. Chidhakwa is a very strict man and a very stringent person and he has been making sure that the funds are well spent and properly spent. I am happy that we have come to this end of the process without any monies being alleged to have been embezzled and I think that is quite a good show.
I want to thank the leadership of Parliament initially for assisting us during this process. I want to thank you hon. members, if you had made so much noise, the whole country was going to follow you because you lead constituencies. Even when we delayed, you did not complain too much. You used your cars and you have not been paid in full. Some of your cars were damaged which you want to use in the next campaign. We will plead with the Minister of Finance to see how he can compensate you but as COPAC, unfortunately, we cannot do much. At least you have a Constitution to take to the constituencies and say, look, as your MP, I delivered the Constitution in the five years that I was in power. You have campaign material, hon. members, do not be disappointed.
I also want to thank our service providers particularly the hotels. Some of them could house our teams for 90 days without any payment, literally feeding our teams. We still owe them some money but they have continued to accommodate us in the processes that we have been undertaking up to now. We want to thank the Minister of Finance, he has made an undertaking that he will continue to provide resources for us to settle our bills. We do not want to be known as a committee which remains in the books of business people as a bad debtor after having done such a good job. I know the Minister of Finance cannot fail us. I want to assure them that we shall pay every cent of the debt. We thank you for the services that you have provided. Those who have issued summons should instruct their lawyers to hold on because this Parliament is hearing me saying you shall be paid.
Finally, I want to thank the people of Zimbabwe for their patience. It has been a long journey, it took longer than they expected but they have been patient. This is the time that they will receive the document that they have been waiting for. On behalf of the Select Committee, I want to say, we think we did our best for our country but we feel honoured and humbled by this national task you bestowed upon us to be part of the history of this country. I thank you.
- MKHOSI: My colleagues after all have gone over the boundaries that we had set ourselves. Nevertheless, I have got a few people that I must thank for a job well done. The two co-chairs, please accept my thanks for the job that you did, had you not done that job in the way that you did it, by now we would not be having the document that we are all proud of. I also thank the Minister of Constitutional and Parliamentary Affairs, Hon. Matinenga in particular, for being a very determined worker. At times I thought we could not make it but his presence made a difference all the time. I must also thank the Committee of Seven, the negotiators, those people unlocked a lock that could have destroyed the constitution making process. When we started, we were working in an isolated manner from the drafters. The drafters were doing their own thing and almost drifting. The negotiators said the best thing to do is for you to work very closely with the drafters. We brought in our legal minds and they worked with us tirelessly and finally we were able to produce the document though afterwards as mentioned by Hon. Mangwana, we had some problems because of some interpretation which mentioned some of the issues that never came into the document.
The issue of homosexuality, I do not remember, as far as I was in this process when we talked of homosexuality but very often it was always in the papers. Where the papers got it from, I just do not know. I appeal to the Press that we are almost reaching the final stage, this is the time to interpret the document to the people. Please correctly inform the people so that you give them material that will help them to make good decisions that are progressive for this country. I know it sells better as a paper to sensationalise an issue even if there is nothing exciting in that issue so that you can sell your paper the next day. I sincerely appeal to the Press that they must come into line and join the rest of Zimbabweans. I also must reiterate my thank you to the parliamentarians and urge them that as they go to their respective constituencies, please thank everybody in your constituencies who took part in the outreach.
Finally, I want to thank the Principals. You remember, the First Stakeholders Conference was almost a fiasco which was rescued by the Principals. Their presence made a difference. We were able to go out as sons and daughters of the same father and mother. We forged some kind of mutual understanding that carried us through. Again, when we were about to finish, the process almost collapsed until the principals formed the Committee of Seven and invited us to attend the meeting with them to explain the basis of our misunderstanding.
Fortunately, after listening to the presentation without any squabbles, they all said we are happy with the product. So, today we are celebrating on behalf of Zimbabwe, the Principals, the negotiators this wonderful time, this historic moment in Zimbabwe, thank you very much, go well home. I thank you.
- BHASIKITI-CHUMA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I do want
to acknowledge the long process this exercise took us, but always those of us who married beautiful women – ladies, know that you have to travel more than ten times to get a nod and from there, to get to the wedding day is a process. So, that is how I understand this process as a very important milestone for our nation. I just want to celebrate with the people of Zimbabwe who came out strong as we went out to conduct the outreach and spoke their minds. They poured out everything which was being captured by our teams as we went around the country.
Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that the product we have at hand is a people-driven product. It is a Constitution by the people, for the people, which satisfies all parameters of democratic processes. Mr. Speaker, at this point I do not think about the pains which the process might have taken us through. The reason being that as you hold the baby, all mothers know that they quickly forget the pains they go through in labour. Some say that they will not have children again but when the baby comes out it will be all smiles. So, it is all smiles now that we are successful and we are proud that as Zimbabwe, we are capable of managing our own national affairs. They now know that we are able to produce a very good document which is not even comparable with most of our international friends.
Mr. Speaker, I am saying this because I know in our Constitution, it is the only Constitution which has a Chapter for traditional leaders to give reverence and importance to the office of our traditional leaders. It means we have carried out a very important exercise and I know the chiefs of Zimbabwe should be the proud people of the nation, and they can boast around and say tisu tirikutonga, tisu takataura, izvi ndezvedu.
Mr. Speaker, I do not want to pour many words to this wonderful document which is before us like the mover and the seconder have already said that we need to move promptly and show the people that our baby is now out. All we were guarding against was getting an illegitimate baby. We can now say nzeve idzi ndedzavaMnangagwa nyangwe kumeso kwacho, unongoona kunaka kwacho ndekwavaMnangagwa saka mwana ndewavo uyu. So, this is our product and we are happy, we are proud of it. We are not ashamed as hon. members to take this document, even beginning tomorrow, to our electorate and tell them that you were well represented, your views are well contained and we are happy.
I know those who want to prophesy doom to it, will very soon realise that it is better to move with others and declare a ‘yes’ vote and declaring the authenticity of this document. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WOMEN’S AFFAIRS,
GENDER AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT: I wish to add
my voice to this historic debate that is before the august House today. I want in particular to add my voice on the progress that our great nation Zimbabwe has attained at this particular moment in the history of our country.
I would want to really celebrate, particularly, the fact that we are definitely on a pathway where, all Zimbabweans have heeded to the call which was made by our Principals in their wisdom; in particular, that, when they agreed to the Global Political Agreement, they said that they were determined that they shall set their differences aside and work together in order to solɶe the probleɭs thatȠbedevil our country. In this particular matter, those very issues have indeed been set aside. I am particularly elѡted that耠we wouìd have a Draft Constitution that actually has the word ⁘happy’ in it, that actually obliges all State ⁘nstitutions and rgans to work in ⁘rder to fumfi|l nat䁩onal objectives tha6 are in pѯѬicy making a䁮` al聳o in ũmplementaѴion,0tha4 will lead the establishment, 聥nhancement and promotion of a sustainable, just, free and democratic society in which all people enjoy prosperous, happy and fulfilling lives. I want to congratulate the people of Zimbabwe for coming up with such a process and this product.
I must, as a matter of necessity and a matter of justice speak and refer to one group of people in the society of Zimbabwe. These are women Mr. Speaker, Sir. Zimbabwe has a very unique situation in the sense that they are not only 52% of the population, but that the women of Zimbabwe themselves are very hardworking and are important in our country. The women of Zimbabwe also went to the liberation front and also fought the liberation war but alas Mr. Speaker, Sir, Zimbabwe continues to be a country whose present constitutional dispensation can be regarded as one of the worst Constitutions in the world as far as its treatment of women, the reason being that it does not accord women the status of equal citizens. In fact the present Constitution gives license to discriminate against women.
Therefore, I want to particularly celebrate the step that Zimbabwe has taken in pushing to make sure that Zimbabwe departs from this particular sad moment and that in fact it is interesting to note that the Principals Mr. Speaker Sir, in Article 6 of the Global Political
Agreement that gave birth to this constitution making process, singled out only one sector of Zimbabwean society and mentioned it by name. They did not mention any other group at all in the preamble in Article 6 that gave birth to this process. They mentioned women only and they said that they were determined and that the new Constitution that arises from this process deepens our democratic values and principles and I quote “particularly, enhances the equal citizenship and dignity of women”. I am therefore, celebrating again Mr. Speaker Sir, the fact that the women of Zimbabwe have indeed stood up to this particular task. They were not found wanting and they did not miss this opportunity because in this Mr. Speaker Sir, it is most interesting to note that in the process of the Constitution Making the majority of the people who turned out in the Select Committee’s outreach meetings were women. We have been told by the Co-chairpersons the statistics. There was a total of 441 238 women who turned up across the countryside at meetings. There were 416 272 men who turned out at outreach meetings. What is most interesting is the difference that there were 23 966 more women than men who walked with their feet and spoke with their feet and spoke with their presence in these meetings. Thus, there was 23 966 more women who turned out at outreach than men of Zimbabwe and the total number of youths who attended these meetings was 253 240. That means apart from the fact that of course there are some women who are also youths, there were 187 998 more women than youths who turned up in physical presence at these meetings.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I thought it will not do justice for the history of Zimbabwe not to record the very vocal, the very eloquent and the vociferous statement that the women of Zimbabwe made in this particular process. Mr. Speaker Sir, cynics might want to explain away the overwhelming presence of women in this process by saying that possibly women are the majority of the unemployed and so they have a lot of time on their hands and that is why they turned up for meetings. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would hasten to state that, that would clearly be not the case because this turnout has shown that instead, the women of Zimbabwe are very conscious of the importance of themselves in the life of their nation. Indeed they care about their country. They are interested in how their country is run and that they are determined to play a part in the solution, through this particular process and to also reverse the unfortunate and unacceptable constitutional state of their status.
I would also hasten to add that in February 2012, that is last year,
Zimbabwe being party to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) presented its second, third, fourth and fifth reports to the CEDAW Committee. At that presentation in Geneva, Zimbabwe caused concern to the CEDAW Committee. The CEDAW Committee raised concern with Section 23 (3) of the present Zimbabwe Constitution which gives licence to discriminate against women. It in fact gave Zimbabwe about 18 months to rectify this situation and Mr. Speaker Sir, I am indeed encouraged and indeed happy that this process has taken us this far and now the draft constitution does in fact give Zimbabwe an opportunity to actually rectify that anomaly and to meet its obligations in terms of
CEDAW.
With that, indeed we would have a Constitution that eliminates discrimination against women. Further again the SADC Protocol on Gender and Development which this very Seventh Parliament ratified in terms of Article 111B of our present Constitution, there is Article 4 that requires that all SADC member States such as Zimbabwe, must by the year 2015 ensure that Zimbabwe has a Constitution that enshrines gender equality and eliminates discrimination. It is therefore, in light of these imperatives that it is to be celebrated that this Draft Constitution that has come out of this process does indeed put Zimbabwe well on the path to fulfilling its obligations in terms of the SADC Protocol on gender and development.
I will therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, want to add my voice to celebrate this process and the stage that we have arrived at and to indeed venture to say that the COPAC draft and the COPAC process that has been tabled before the House is a tonic and maybe indeed the panacea to the ills that have bedeviled the very unacceptable status of women of
Zimbabwe itself. It even goes so far, and we should celebrate, as to make a breakthrough and to depart from the very unfortunate legal tradition that has been used in the interpretation of statutes whereby the masculine is said to include the feminine. This Draft Constitution departs from that tradition and indeed makes a breakthrough in referring to women specifically and using very gender sensitive language in referring to people as either “he” or “she” and not anymore including the feminine in the masculine amongst all the other things that it does.
I would hasten to say that this Draft Constitution may very well be the best thing that has happened to the women of Zimbabwe as far as their legal status is concerned since the Legal Age of Majority Act was passed in 1985 in order to stop African women from being regarded as perpetual minors. That did not go far enough because at law Mr. Speaker Sir, the women of Zimbabwe are still not considered as equal and this Draft Constitution does indeed give a chance to complete that process and to make Zimbabwean women full citizens at last.
I wish to just end by also paying tribute to all the people who sacrificed their time and their effort and indeed their determination in this particular process. This process has not come cheap. At least one person paid for this with his life. There was one person called Chrispen Mandizvidza who paid the ultimate price at Mai Musodzi Hall in Mbare during the outreach process in Harare in September 2010; but it is to be celebrated that this was a process in which he would not have lost his life in vain because in this very difficult and painful process,
Zimbabweans have found each other. We have found each other and we have come to respect each other; and indeed we are moving forward together as a nation; and that indeed we may live happily ever after, hand in hand in the light od this Draft Constitution. I thank you Mr.
Wpeake2 Sir.
VHE MINISTER ࡏF WO䁍EN’S AfFAIRS, GENDER ANT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT: Mr. Speaker S⁘r, I wish t䁯 add
my voic⁘ to the celebratkry noteРas a member of the select committee.
I Want to make two points. Many times 䁉 hear people say proudly
Zimba䁢wean, it sounds like we aѲe copying. I always†feel ,ike we should say uniquely Zimbabwean. This p⁘ocess nf Constitutɩ/n Makine ha{ proved to me once more!uhat we are a very unique people. There is no other country under the sun which has made its Constitution in the manner we have done in a very participatory process. Participatory that starts from the grassroots right up to our principals and reflect the totality of that society. So I just want to celebrate the uniqueness of Zimbabweans as demonstrated in this very democratic and participatory process.
The second point I want to make Mr. Speaker is that the environment we started in was very polarized as previous members have said but we have proved one thing that by having a unity of purpose we are able to achieve what we want or what we set out to do. Several times I have said to my colleagues in the Committee that whenever a group comes to work together, whatever group it is, it goes through four processes.
The first is the storming. When you are trying to find each other there is some stormy exercise and we did have quite a good number of those but at the end we were even able to laugh about who we were in April 2009. Then we come through the process of forming. When we had found each other, we were even forming sub-committees, friendly relationships and so forth. Then we went into performing and in the process of performing, we set certain norms.
I am making that point as we go for the Referendum and for the elections; I hope we can carry the spirit of performance that we have established through the Draft Constitution as well as the norms of working together to achieve a common purpose. The common purpose is, for every Zimbabwean to say this is my Constitution because I participated in the outreach, uploading, drafting or even reading. I want to appeal to Zimbabweans to please read when the Draft becomes available through the media, websites and copies that will be distributed. One of the disturbing things that I went through as a Committee Member was to find people saying things that were incorrect because they heard from somebody else. They did not read. It is very important that Zimbabweans take ownership of the Constitution to make it their document, to internalize it so that when the opportunity or the need arises they can use it because they have read it and they are able to use
it.
I was watching a documentary on Venezuela. Some American journalist went to do a documentary on Venezuela whilst they were in
Chavez’s Palace, a coup took place and they were locked up in that Palace and Chavez was taken out to some Island. What restored normalcy was the people coming out and saying no, our Constitution does not allow that. The people of Venezuela had read and understood their Constitution. They marched enmass to the Palace and that was the end of the coup. The documentary ends with Chavez coming back because the people were guided by their Constitution and they acted on
it.
was watching a documentary on Venezuela. Some American journalist went to do a documentary on Venezuela whilst they were in Chavez’s Palace, a coup took place and they were locked up in that Palace and Chavez was taken out to some Island. What restored normalcy was the people coming out and saying no, our Constitution does not allow that.
The people of Venezuela had read and understood their Constitution.
They marched enmass to the Palace and that was the end of the coup.
The documentary ends with Chavez coming back because the people were guided by their Constitution and they acted on it.
I want to urge Zimbabweans to participate in the Referendum through reading and supporting the Constitution. I thank you.
+MR. F.M. SIBANDA: Today I want to speak like an activist. I thank you and I am also happy because a child has been born in
Zimbabwe. I started the struggle in 1965 when I was at Gloag Ranch Mission. Up until now a child had not been born, so I would like to say congratulations Zimbabweans and congratulations children of the soil because Prophets like Jeremiah have failed.
That was my introduction, now I am switching over to English so that we can move together.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I always quote lessons from history. In South
Africa, there was CODESA and Mr. Cyril Ramaphosa, now the Deputy President of the ANC. He was one of those activists who did the donkey work but he was not selfish. For almost ten/fifteen years, he went to business and did not hurry to take political posts. So, this to me is a lesson that when we work for people, we should not seek recognition but God will bless us. A constitution to me is a social contract between the governors and the governed and it has to show what I would call constitutionalism. Yes, our Constitution is second to none in Africa in general terms but we have to uphold the spirit of constitutionalism and political will so that the implementation thereof becomes reality.
I would like to thank the negotiators of the GNU to have come up with the mechanism of constitutional making process. If it were not for the negotiators from the three political parties together with the Principals, the process would be a pipedream. More importantly, I am calling for recognition to be extended to all members of Parliament, technical staff, drivers who made this a success during an outreach programme where we were infested by malaria and other ailment because of dedication to duty.
More importantly Mr. Speaker Sir, I am indebted to the COPAC
Select Committee, co-Chairs and the Management Committee, the
Principals and I therefore propose for recognition of all who made the process a success. But, how should we not recognize the current crop of heroines and heroes of this continuous struggle in Zimbabwe? How should we not recognize the people who struggled throughout up to date, it is a food for thought?
However, as I have quoted history, in South Africa, the most hated apartheid President who was converted the last minute like Paul on his way to Damascus was awarded together with the icon of Africa, Mandela. They were awarded for bringing peace and tranquility to
South Africa.
At this juncture, I do not want recognition personally, but people have to recognize that there was a young lawyer by the name Douglas Mwonzora and an elder lawyer by the name P.M. Mangwana. There was a social worker, an agronomist by the name Mkhosi. These names should go into the annals of history and be awarded recognition.
We have also to go further and say who did they work in tandem – the Management Committee. I cannot name the names because I might miss some but I saw my muzukuru Priscilla Misihairabwi-Mushonga.
Hon. Tendai Biti was there. Hon. Chinamasa was there, Hon. Goche was there. There was Hon. Mangoma and others but others I do not mean to demean you. It is my memory that has elapsed because of age, maybe.
Hon. Members, I need to applaud the preamble of the Draft Constitution. It recognizes the following among others – not in order of priority – the Almighty God. If you would get a bill of the American
Dollar, and surrender the money of their bill to God. They trust in God. This Constitution to me is dedicated to the Almighty God. If we fail to implement that, we will be charged and cursed like Nebuchadnezzar who did not follow the tenets of good governance. The preamble also considered the following; freedoms, justice, gender equality, heroic resistance to colonialism, racism, tribalism and all forms of domination and oppression by man. It also reaffirms the upholding and defending of fundamental human rights and freedoms.
le sets the motion and intended national objectives and obligation. In and outside
I was touched when Hon. Majome was talking about this Constitution protecting girls and women – that is understood and I applaud her for that. When you refer to Section 82, it refers to the protection of the elderly. All of us were young, we are growing and ageing. It is unique in Africa that people of my age will enjoy before we die. In Botswana there is a policy that every elderly person of 60 years and above will have a pension to sustain them. I will never be a ghost or tokoloshi when I die because my heart is clear now that after working over four decades in the struggle physically, I have achieved a document for my great grand children.
Lastly, hon. members, I want to end on a very high note. The people of Zimbabwe are unique. They are stubborn in nature but reasonable in resolution. I need to congratulate ZANU PF which is formerly ZANU and was formed in 1963 by my cousin Nkala. I was still energetic and I was there that time. I also need to congratulate the
Movement for Democratic Change and Movement for Democratic
Change Green because we are one. It is a matter of perception and leadership personalities. We are one. To me as a senior elderly backbencher, I am applauding and appealing to members that these political parties should implement the road map to elections and get rid of violence, intimidation and vote buying so that whoever wins becomes our national President.
In short, I would like to thank the Principals, Members of
Parliament who went out there, the management committee, the staff of Parliament and even our Clerk of Parliament. There was a time he was
very instrumental; more importantly, our Speaker of Parliament for
navigating this massive ship that has borne a new child here. I thank
you.
*MRS ZINYEMBA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I feel very free to debate in my mother language. I will therefore speak slowly to enable interpreters to interpret perfectly as we have in the past had a culture of distorted speeches in the Hansard especially when we make our contributions in Shona or Ndebele. First of all, I would like to thank my God for working with the people of Zimbabwe in the writing of our Constitution which we are debating today. Nobody may dispute the fact that when this process started, we had problems amongst ourselves here in this august House. We nearly had physical fights because of the misunderstanding of the Constitution making process. But I would like to thank the Lord because in the end of the misunderstandings created a platform for unity amongst the people of Zimbabwe.
You will notice that during the outreach process there were lots of suspicions amongst us during the early stages. This went on for nearly three weeks but at the end of the outreach process, we were united and shared whatever we had regardless of our political affiliations. The unity which was brought about by this process should be upheld so that we protect the Constitution in the coming processes.
We also noticed that members of the Select Committee also had problems. We read about it in the media but we thank our dear Lord for being in charge and peace prevailed. Finally, we have our document – the Constitution of Zimbabwe. My observation is that when you go to our constituencies and discuss the new Constitution, none of the electorate will begrudge us because the information gathered during the outreach process is what makes up this Constitution. In each Ward, three meetings were held so that the public would make their contribution for inclusion in the final document.
The chance given to the people showed that the document is truly theirs. Even as we leave this august House and give feedback, we should not be afraid because they spoke and we listened. All we have to do is to explain the modalities in the crafting of the final document but all the material came from them. We thank the writers of the document. Do not be afraid of going back to the people because you are giving them what they proffered. All that was done was to treat the material technically and we are assured that as far as feedback is concerned we have no fear - we did a good job.
As Africans in this country who were oppressed we want to thank the public’s contribution and the technocrats for a job well-done for us, the people of Zimbabwe, that we are united, we are able to do our things on our own. We were hearing stories about donors that helped us but no one came in saying Mwonzora, Mangwana and Mkhosi – even the negotiators, no one directed you. You did it all by yourselves in your
God given wisdom. We would like to thank you for that, for there was no outside interference. We should be proud of that and also that we are no different from the other nationalities despite colour – our blood and intelligence are the same or even much better.
For us Zimbabweans, this Constitution has taught us that if you visit other countries, our children are more educated and hard-working. This idea of going for greener pastures, they are going there because they are sharp; if it were not that, they would be beggars out there – they even have better jobs in the education and health sectors. We should cherish that as Zimbabweans, we are a peculiar people highly farvoured by the Lord. We should also be grateful about the respect for one another that came about through this Constitution. We started from the grass-roots up-to the Principals and our President stressed that the three of them were spear-headers and the baton stopped with them. At the end we realized that they were our leaders whom we had put up-front. So, we had to allow them to lead us and we listened.
Now, we are one family. Even when Hon. Mwonzora and Hon. Mangwana were presenting – the whole House was in support for we all want to build our country.
Part of speech not recorded due to technical fault.
Those from the east have their meals whilst crossing their legs; the
Chinese use chop-sticks; what is going to distinguish us as
Zimbabweans? We should cherish our identity through our Constitution. I think I can go on and on but I just want to say, congratulations, we now have a starting point for the posterity of the next generation. As we leave this House, let us go out in the same spirit of bringing peace, unity and harmony with the mandate that was given to us by the people of Zimbabwe.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
+MS. D. SIBANDA: I would like to thank the Select Committee for the good work that they did and I would also like to thank the whole of Zimbabwe for their sterling work and commitment in enabling us to come up with our new Constitution which we are debating on today. I would also like to thank myself and on behalf of all the Members of Parliament who were team leaders, for working together amicably until we got to the end of this Constitution.
I am standing here as a mother looking at the Constitution with great joy on the realisation that most of our concerns have been addressed and noted in the Constitution. We are overjoyed as the people of Bulawayo, especially the people of Bulawayo Central Constituency. We were worried that maybe our concerns were not going to be taken on board. Looking at this document, I can see that there is a 50-50 representation has been put into consideration - we are very happy about that. As women we are over- joyed because we wanted the Constitution to state that we need to be respected and that has been included in the Constitution.
Looking at the Final Draft Constitution – Domestic Violence has been included and also the Gender Commission, these are Acts protecting us as women. Looking at Devolution of Powers, the way that they have explained it and the six positions that were allotted to us as women at Provincial Council - we look forward to the forthcoming elections – the six positions will be reserved for women from different Provinces. The gender sensitivity of the national budget is also appreciated as women are assured of getting their own share of the national cake. We as women, were crying for our space and the addressing of the challenges that befall us – we are grateful.
On Children’s Rights – these were also included in the
Constitution. Of particular concern were the rights of the girl child who was being forced into marriage at the tender age of 16. As women, we were worried about that because we do not want our children to be harassed. At least, now the girl child is not going to be forced into early marriage but only marries because she feels she is ready and wants to. This will also allow the girl child to attend school just like their male counterparts and attain the highest degree of education.
On Health Care Services that have been included in the Constitution because most of the time our children were suffering. In the past, we mentioned the issue of lack of sanitary wear for the girl child. It was proving to be difficult for the girl child to get sanitary wear in terms of the health care delivery system. The Constitution clearly states that these are the issues that Government should consider in assisting the girl child with.
THE ACTING SPEAKER: Order, Hon Member, can you confine
yourself to the debate about the process and discuss key issues and not go to the details of the Draft Constitution.
MS .D .SIBANDA: Thank you very much. I will stop here Mr. Speaker but I would like to thank everyone for this process and I would like to thank Hon. Mwonzora, Hon. Mkhosi and Hon. Mangwana. I would like to thank myself and other members of Parliament for carrying out this process and for representing everyone here in Zimbabwe and also I would like to thank the Chiefs and all the citizens of Zimbabwe. Thank you very much.
*MR. MHANDU: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this opportunity to make my contribution on the Select Committee report.
Thank you to the co-Chairpersons, the Management Committee and the Principals because of a job well done. Their report is reflective of what was gathered in the draft programme. I am one of the war veterans and I hope we are going to be respected and recognized and get the dignity that we deserve. During the outreach programme the people called for the recognition and respect of war veterans and collaborators. I am glad to say at last this has been included in the new Constitution.
We also hope that what has been stated in the Constitution is going to be implemented fully because previous experiences have shown that we are good planners but bad implementers. If we fully implement what is in the draft report Zimbabwe will be highly progressive and they will be unity of purpose in the country.
This has brought back memories of the time when I joined the liberation struggle and reasons why I decided to join the struggle for the liberation of Zimbabwe. Through the combined efforts of combatants Zimbabwe was freed and I am glad to say all what I fought for, after the struggle joined the armed forces, joined the political arena and now all my efforts have now been fulfilled. My hope and wish is that this Constitution is going to be accepted and adopted by the people of Zimbabwe.
Congratulations to the Select Committee for including the wishes of the people of Zimbabwe who include the young and the elderly and women. War veterans, collaborators, ex-detainees and the men and women who supported the struggle are happy at the outcome of their contributions. Once again thank you to the COPAC Select Committee.
* MR. MUDAVANHU: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I start by
thanking the Lord above for giving the children of Zimbabwe an opportunity to draft their Constitution. God also gave wisdom to the
Principals who ably guided the process. I also want to thank the Select Committee members for a sterling job. May the Lord bless them? Of course we know that we lost some of our members during this process but we also thank them for their contributions before their untimely departure. May their souls rest in peace?
The other aspect of the Constitution making process which came out clearly was that it was a unifier. There was no partisan politics.
During the outreach programmes we visited some areas which in the past were no go areas to people of other political affiliations other than the dominating party. But happily enough because of this process we were able to operate in them and interact with the ordinary citizens in those areas who gave their contributions.
The Constitution making process took a longer time than was expected, to such an extent that the people of Zimbabwe were querying our capabilities and will to write the Constitution. There were also rumours that some members of the Select Committee were retrogressive in their approach. I am glad to say the people of Zimbabwe are happy to see the final document which also shows the importance of unity with no partisan politics disturbing progress.
I would like to repeat what has been said by Hon. Mhandu who spoke before me and I appealed for the full implementation of the recommendations of this document. I am also happy to mention that in the Bill of Rights, health rights have been included. I am a member of the health personnel, as a result I am very glad because of this inclusion.
A healthy nation is a developing nation. In conclusion, I would like to thank all the people of Zimbabwe for the support they gave in this process.
THE MINISTER OF SMALL AND MEDIUM
ENTERPRISES AND CO-OPERATIVE DEVELOPMENT (MRS.
NYONI): I want to join my colleagues in the House in thanking all the MPs especially the COPAC team. Mr. Speaker Sir, if you look into history, most good things happen within three years. If you look into the life of our Lord Jesus, he did all what he did and all what we are following today in three years. So our Constitution is significant. I want really to say because we did it in three years and all the miracles that we are now emulating in the Bible, Jesus walked and worked for three years, so thank you very much for that.
For the first time I think every Zimbabwean wants everybody to look at us as a nation. We have something to show, something to be proud of, and something that has united us regardless of political party, gender and background. I think this constitutional making process was really a unifying force. I want to thank our Principals because they were very strong. Towards the end, a lot of us wondered whether this was really going to go through but they steered and guided the process to conclusion. I hope that, we, as leaders in our constituencies we emulate
this.
I remember that when this process started especially during the outreach, there was a lot of confusion and a lot of division even at constituency level. I remember in my own constituency people still thought that it was their group that had to speak and not the other group. When meetings were called others would disrupt meetings. For us to have come out of that and come out with a Constitution that is responding to everybody, that is talking to everybody, that is representing everybody, I think as Zimbabweans we must really stand up high and be proud.
I hope that like some of the speakers have said, we do not live this Constitution only in writing but we internalize it and live it. I read most of it last night and I think it is one of those documents that any nation would be proud of. It is one of those documents that really represent even the poorest of the poor. I want to thank all those of my countrymen and women that spent sleepless nights, that spent energies trying to put this Constitution together.
My last point is that, I hope that as Members of Parliament we can go back to our constituencies with the spirit that this Constitution carries to unite the people from grassroots up to our principals. I think that when our principals say peace begins with me especially President R. G. Mugabe, all the time before we start any Politburo meeting – we all have to stand up and say “Peace begins with me, Peace begins with you, Peace begins with all of us”. This is what this Constitution carries and we hope that all political parties will carry that to their constituencies.
I am proud of our President and our principals that they have been able to unite the nation and together we will make Zimbabwe great.
*MS MUCHINGURI: Firstly, I would like to thank the Select Committee for a job well done especially their commitment and perseverance. I know that we once harassed and scold them. We even went to the extent of referring some of them as sell-outs but this did not deter them from doing their work. I know that they had sledpless nights knowing that by the end of the day we wi⁘l thank them as a nation for bringing peace and development inРour country. Vheir names will be written in history ⁘ooks ⁘or aȠjob well d• ne.
I have noticed that theyĠforgot to write our namec iî their report. I hope and t䁲ust that they will re}ember us. I would like to thank the people of Zimbabwm, our ⁘otheѲ{ and fathers for the maturity⁘t(ey shoɷe⁘ in handlino this ⁘rocess beţause there was o tolerance and acceptance of different views to start with. I would like to thank them for rising above the situation.
I would also want to thank our principals. I remember them addressing the Select Committee that the constitution making process was theirs and the committee should not hijack it. I think this includes us from Parliament as well but we were whipped into line. When we were at each other’s throat, they disciplined us. Talking from the point of view of JOMIC, we also did a good job by making sure that sanity prevailed that there was no violence in the country and people tolerated each other. There was unity and not hate speech.
If our late Vice President, John Nkomo was here, he would have all the reasons to celebrate because he was the Chairperson of National Healing Organ. He urged us to forget our differences. I think he was instrumental in the Unity Accord between ZANU PF and PF ZAPU. Using that experience, the organ on National Healing was strengthened in uniting all the people involved despite their political affiliation. He associated with all the people and he could come in where there was stalemate. He knew that where there were two people involved, conflict was also there. He knew how to manage conflict. I think his soul will rest in eternal peace.
I would want to thank our NGOs especially Women’s Coalition who managed to bring together the NGOs in the area of research in our region and beyond in terms of gender equality. They arranged workshops for women so that they knew about their rights. I also want to thank the Ministry of Women’s Affairs because they worked very hard
in educating the women on issues of CEDAW and SADC Protocols by bringing out how we were lagging behind as Zimbabweans.
I am proud today that Zimbabwean fathers will be proud that their girl child is going to get political, economic and social rights which are equal to the boy child. It is really an achievement for men to talk about 50-50 gender equality and that is development. There was a lot of resistance. We were looked down upon, so NGOs should keep on brining us together and make sure that they have educated the rural people to understand about the rights of women. What really made me happy was that they demystified the idea that the Constitution was for the lawyers. They used very simple language. Even our Draft Constitution is very different from the other Constitutions of other nations. So our document is user friendly as long as you can read Shona or Ndebele and the other languages.
I would also want to thank the people of Zimbabwe for allowing war veterans, war collaborators, ex-detainees for recognising their contribution in the Constitution making process.
Their contribution was not being taken into account. Some died and some of them are still in the bush. Although they are not present, I think they will now rest in peace. I would like to say as war veterans, ex-detainees and war collaborators let us not forget that it is the majority of Zimbabweans that have cherished the contribution that was made to the development of the country. The unity that we are now enjoying has shown us that it will not help us to scold each other or to blame each other. We want to use our energy fruitfully in developing our country. We have learnt that where there is unity, there is development. So let us go forward with development. We brought to shame those who thought Zimbabweans would not be united. They wanted us to be called at the UN Security Council, I think now they are ashamed. They are ashamed of their thoughts because they have seen that Zimbabwe is united.
I can see that there are others who want to campaign for a No vote. We say that because of democracy, people are allowed to do that but we want to teach people that people should move together. People should be taught that when the train is moving, follow the train because some of these things will cause us to move backwards instead of moving forward.
I would want to urge hon. members not to spend a lot of time debating on this issue because the main task is to campaign for a Yes vote. Women are very happy because of affirmative action and proportional representation. The Women’s League have really benefited from the Constitution, we are looking forward to coming to Parliament as soon as possible. I would like to thank the men for supporting us.
Thank you.
*MS. KARENYI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for affording me this
opportunity to debate on this motion. I would like to congratulate the drivers of the train who were driving this constitution making process. I thank the Hon. MPs for a job well done. I would also want to thank other Hon. MPs who were not in the Select committee because they also worked hard. During the outreach process, we went to places which were very volatile where people would throw stones and mud. I just pray that that spirit would remain in us so that our country will move forward.
I would also want to thank the Principals for making sure that this draft constitution was quickly brought into the House. People out there were now wondering what was happening because they had waited for a long time. I am so happy that the issue of fundamental human rights and the freedoms have been included in the Constitution. I was really happy because of the freedom of expression and freedom of the media. I saw the media people here in Parliament. They need to be reminded of what is in our Constitution; that they should report fairly, without fear or favour. Since we are looking forward to elections, I hope all the parties are going to be accorded space in our media. If Mr. Chimuti is contesting to become the President, he should be heard on ZTV. Hon. Chinomona has just said that she also should appear on ZTV, all of us including women, it is not men only who must appear on ZTV. Every party should be given the opportunity to sell their party policies. I am so happy because this will make our country develop. The other issue is political rights, everyone is free to choose their own political party.
These are signs of development. We are now moving together as Zimbabweans for the betterment of our country.
I am also happy as a woman as my daughter-in-law Hon. Muchinguri has already said, we are happy because one of our leg is already in Parliament before elections. So as women this is very important for us because during the outreach process, men were at the forefront advocating for women’s rights. I would like to thank the men for helping us to come up with this good document.
The previous speaker was talking about affirmative action. If you look at the results of ‘A’ levels, more girls passed than boys. This shows that the girl child is now empowered because of the rights which have been enshrined in our Constitution. On behalf of myself and my constituency, Chimanimani West, I would like to thank you for a job well done. This country will be at peace because no one will be above the Constitution. The security sector and the uniformed forces, all of them will be governed by this Constitution. Lastly before I sit down, I am happy with the issue of citizenship, it was us women who were affected because some of us would be married to foreigners. So with this Constitution, everyone who is born in Zimbabwe is a Zimbabwean child and they have their right to vote. I would also like to thank you Mr. Speaker for directing this House because Parliament is you and we follow behind you. Thank you very much.
THE CO-MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (MRS.
MAKONE): I just want to add my voice to those of my colleagues who have spoken before me to particularly appreciate the work done by the Select Committee of Parliament, COPAC, led by our three CoChairpersons. I also want to recognize and thank the management committee as well as the principals who also played a very big role in unblocking some of the deadlocks that came about. What is most important, I think is that as Zimbabweans we must now become people that are constitutional. It is one thing having a very good Constitution and quite another when it comes to implementing it, practicing it and respecting it. So, what is important now as far as I am concerned is that all the people of Zimbabwe, the old women in the rural areas, and the children of the country must be taught the importance of this sacrosanct Constitution. This will enable them to fully appreciate their right, so that never again will the people of Zimbabwe be deprived of their rights. As Hon. Minister Muchena said about that documentary on Chavez, the people of Venezuela understood their Constitution and they were able to overturn a military coup. I think that before we even go to the Election this year, all the people of Zimbabwe must grasp this Constitution and understand its contents. They must understand their rights so that no one is deprived of them, and no one exceeds their boundaries at whatever level of society they may be. So, Mr. Speaker, while I appreciate all the work that has been done, while I want to shame our detractors, while I want to celebrate this Constitution, I still want to say, may there be no reservations about the implementation of this Constitution. Therefore, it is very important that that Constitutional Court be one of the first institutions to be put into place before we go to elections so that the people of Zimbabwe can exercise their right to challenge whenever their constitutional rights are trampled upon. I thank you.
*MRS MATIENGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker, for according me
this opportunity to air my voice in line with gender as the Chairperson of Gender. Most of the things have been said already, I will just pick here and there to show my presence.
Firstly, I would want to thank the Select Committee for the job well done in producing this document. I am so happy that the Final Draft is out, a thing we did not expect. Even though there were challenges here and there we ended up as one family. I would like to thank, especially, the women who were in the Select Committee. These women worked very hard as they would give feedback for direction. This has made women to be remembered in this Constitution, first of its kind. What I want to say is that the girl child was not recognised. We did not have the right to education; we would only go as far as Grade Seven and pave way for the boy child. I am so happy that finally we are being recognised as people and mothers.
Coming to health, women are also given precedence. Coming to official languages, we are being recognised. We find that English was the official language, therefore it was used more than Shona. You find that even most of our children do not know Shona. Now all the languages are being recognised. This should cascade to schools as well so that when children are growing up they know all the indigenous languages. This will help us when we travel around our country, we will not be limited.
Coming to the elderly, I know this has been talked about but I am happy that elderly people are now recognised because they worked for this country. Coming to citizenship, citizenship is now looking at anyone born in Zimbabwe being now recognised as a Zimbabwean. It was a problem for our foreigners who were born here; we were not recognising them as Zimbabweans. I think those outside are happy that Zimbabwe is a welcoming country. I am grateful because our Constitution came out so well. We should continue in this unity and spread it outside. I would also want to thank the Principals for coming in on the issue of homosexuality which was bringing divisions amongst us. I am thankful to our President who clarified the issue at the Second All Stakeholders meeting. People were misrepresenting the facts but the President looked at the Draft Constitution and nothing to that effect. I am so happy because the President dealt with the matter and peace followed thereafter.
Now we are talking about our own Constitution and I am happy to be part of this even if I die now. I would like to thank all the members of Parliament for their hard work, it was not easy during the outreach programme because of financial constraints but we soldiered on. I hope that, that spirit of unity will remain in us because when we were going out we were one; we would give each other chances to open our meeting. Now that the Constitution is out, let us go and tell our people that it is now out and where there is good, bad is also found but we will conquer even up to Elections. I would like to thank you Mr. Speaker for according me this opportunity, now I have something to contribute in the
Committee tomorrow.
I would want to thank the Ministry of Women’s Affairs for their
advice and input. I hope that they will remain like that up to the Referendum and to the adoption stage.
*MRS MAHOKA: Firstly I would like to thank Members for the report has shown that they have done a good job. It has also been noted that in the course of their duties some MPs lost their cars due to accidents and other mishaps to such an extent that some of the cars were right offs. This did not deter their effort of going through the process of the constitution making. Their zeal in the outreach programme despite the difficulties they faced, showed that they wanted to get the views of all Zimbabweans in their respective areas regardless of their remoteness.
Once again thank you to the Select Committee for a job well done. The members of this Committee were verbally abused and at times called names such as retrogressive elements and sellouts but they soldiered on. We are happy to see the outcome of their resilience. The hostilities they faced encouraged them to pursue their intended goals. I am also happy to say that this report has shown that we are happy in this country because of the unity we have through the liberation struggle, also noting that some of the combatants died during the war and some outside the country. I am so happy to note that the Constitution has included the rights of the combatants, war collaborators, ex-detainees and the parents who supported this struggle. Honourables Mwonzora, Mangwana and Mkhosi, thank you for a job well done by taking into account the contributions made by the ordinary people who cooked sadza for the freedom fighters during the liberation struggle when we included their rights in the Constitution.
I would also like to thank male members for the good work you did. You were the first to encourage contributions on equal rights as you were guided by female members of the Select Committee. You did not uphold your male ego but you were prepared to humble yourselves and accept contributions which led to the uplifting of women. You showed that you appreciated the fact that you had your chance of ruling the country. It is now the turn of the women folk to take up the reins on a
50/50 zebra formation.
This is the second aspect of the development of women in this country. The first aspect is that, during the colonial era, women were treated as minors who had no right to identity cards, even birth certificates were not issued to women. This archaic law was removed by our dear President thus elevated the status of women by offering access to national identity cards (zvitupa). I would want to salute men for willing to share with us the reins of power, women are now rulers.
Thank you for listening to women’s concerns in the select committee and in Parliament. When God created man, he knew that he had built a car for the man needed an assistant. Women will show that they are able assistants. During the war of liberation, women combatants fought side by side with their male counterparts and shared responsibilities equally without discrimination. Women are also able to knock down enemy war planes as was done by their male counterparts. Thank you a hundred times for affording women a chance to make their contributions in development of their country.
I have also noted that men’s period of promiscuity has come to a grinding halt because as women, we are now protected by the
Constitution. You are forced to follow what the Constitution says on the rights of women and the girl child.
I would like to thank people from my Constituency in Hurungwe for their contributions during the outreach programme. These people are happy because their contributions are included in the Constitution despite the remoteness of their area. They are now aware of the fact that this is the people’s Constitution, for the people, by the people and has brought unity to the people of Zimbabwe. I can now eat sadza in any homestead without fear.
I would also want to thank the Principals for their wisdom and guidance during this Constitution Making Process. Let me conclude by saying to the men folk here we come beware because of the 50/50 representation in Parliament tapinda tapinda. Thank you Mr. Speaker
Sir.
*MR. MAKUYANA: Let me start by congratulating you Mr.
Speaker for guiding parliament through this historic occasion. You will go down in the annals of the history of Zimbabwe as one of the greatest speaker this country has ever had because of your leadership through the Constitution Making Process. I would also like to congratulate our principals Cde. Robert Gabriel Mugabe, Hon. Morgan Tsvangirai and Hon. Prof. Arthur Mutambara for their blessed guidance. Thank you to the management committee for contributions made, thank you to the core-chairpersons, Mr. Mwonzora, Mr. Mangwana and Mr. Mkhosi for your resilience. These gentlemen came from different political parties but because of their commitment to their duty, they became more than friends but relatives and patriots.
At the start of the Constitutional Making Process they encountered some teething problems to such an extent that this document could have become the Kariba Draft, the Sheraton Draft or any other drafts that were crafted in this country, but they remained resolute so that we have this people’s Draft. Congratulations to the Seventh Parliament of Zimbabwe.
May I congratulate the people of Zimbabwe for putting their heads together in drafting this Constitution. I say so because in some countries the constitution making process is a preserve of the elite and the educated such as lawyers or any other legal fundis but Zimbabwe is outstanding in that this process was held with the participation of people from the remote areas of the country and at times of low literacy.
I also want to congratulate our technocrats for making this document compact. One would have expected it to be a voluminous document but they managed to include everything which came from the people in the compacted document. I can mention the Indian Constitution which I know; it is has many books touching the different aspects of their Constitution but Zimbabwe has produced a single compacted but all inclusive document. You need years of continuous study to master the Indian Constitution because of the many volumes.
Congratulations to the Seventh Parliament for a job well done and the God given leadership.
As ordinary MPs some of us had no idea of the law making process but thanks to this Constitution making process. We will not be easily fooled by lawyers because of the knowledge we have gained from the preamble stage to the conclusion. The knowledge so gained will also be shared amongst our families and future generations because of the participatory nature of the Constitution Process. Traditionally such knowledge was shared through story telling but now we will be talking of the Constitution Making Process and legal matters. Most of the people in the country will be aware of their constitutional rights.
One of the roles of Parliament is Oversight. Mr. Speaker Sir we hope that this function will be implemented by Parliament following the adoption of this Constitution and its interpretation. It is one thing to own a good piece of legislation and it is another to implement and interpret the same. As Parliament we have to make a thorough follow up on the Commissions during the implementation period. I had no intention of contributing in this debate but I felt overwhelmed by the good news. I also feel proud of the fact that even if I die, I have left a legacy on the Constitution which was crafted by the Seventh Parliament of Zimbabwe.
May I also take this opportunity Mr. Speaker Sir, to ask you to congratulate yourself for leading such a noble cause. You should hold your head high when you are in the company of speakers from other countries because you have done a noble job, on the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
- BEREMAURO: I do not want to be left out in making contributions to such a noble cause. For the first time in Zimbabwe, we have had a people driven Constitution because the Constitution we are using now is the Lancaster House Constitution.
During the outreach process, I was a team leader together with Mr. Nyaude. You will find that we were suspicious in such a way that we were not able to give each other correct room numbers at the hotels where we were staying because of partisan politics. I remember at one time, I asked for Mr Nyaude’s room number and he told me that he was in Room 2. To my surprise, when I visited the room, I found that it was occupied by a driver. Such was the lack of trust amongst us. We regarded each other as ZANU PF and MDC. At a later stage I discovered that Mr Nyaude was my cousin.
We also faced some problems in the Mashonaland West Province where we were operating, such as the loss of a driver, Mr Munodawafa who died in his hotel room in the evening after duty and he is one of the heroes of the Constitutional struggle.
In another nasty incident, Hon. Machacha lost his car in an accident which occurred when we were traveling from Kariba to Siakobvu. Mr. Machacha is one of the heroes of the constitutional making process because of his contributions.
I would also like to talk about the contribution made by Mr. Mangwana especially in the delay of payments which led to our expulsion from Twin River Inn Hotel and we ended up staying in Kariba. As a result, we travelled 423 km from Kariba to Siakobvu to hold outreach meetings.
In one of these outings, we left our hotel at 5 o’clock in the morning and to our great surprise, we found that the road had been blocked by a herd of elephants. As a result, we had to stop for about an hour waiting for the elephants to clear the way. Daily we traveled 846 km to and fro. The dedication shown by our people was aimed at the success of the Constitution making process despite all the difficulties they encountered.
I thank all the MPs for their contributions. Now that we are going, first for the Referendum, second the elections, I hope and trust that there will be a new Government which is not of national unity because it is a disadvantage to the nation, the three-legged animal which thrives on a tug-of-war and the blame game amongst political parties. We hope that the elections will give us one ruling party.
I would like to thank the hon. members for their contributions in this process. This is a rare occasion which only happens once in a life time. Let us now go back to our constituencies and give a progressive and developmental feedback. We should go down to the Ward level and tell the people that we have come back to them to thank them for their contributions which were included in the Constitution. This is every
Parliamentarian’s job and not Select Committee members only. This is the people’s Constitution and we should be part of the awareness campaigns.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, congratulations Zimbabwe.
- MWONZORA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I want
to start by thanking the Standing Rules and Orders Committee (SROC) of this Parliament for having constituted the Parliamentary Select Committee and laid the basis of the administration of the project.
Mr. Speaker, in that regaѲd I w⁘nt to thank you in person as the
Speaker of the House on Awsemblù and theɲ䁥fore as the⁘head of th⁘
SROC. I, on behalf of members of the Select Committee, want to thank all our political parties for havinç repoce confidence in us anD all
Members of the Selec䁴 Committee who did not takå anything for graŮved.0 We ⁷ a䁮t0⁴ o thank the Hon. Members fo⁘`the role they pla聹ed throuGhgup thũs project. First, in the Outreach Progɲamme – we know that they went through various hardships but this was in order to produce what is good for their country.
We also thank the hon. members for the role they played during the Second All Stakeholders’ Conference. They contributed a lot at uniting people during outreach and during the All Stakeholders’
Conference. Again, for the third time we want to thank the hon. Members for the very fruitful debate. I think if there was anybody who was visiting the Zimbabwean Parliament for the first time, they would be unable to tell who belongs where. We belong to one political party called Zimbabwe and the others are sub-political parties.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the women of Zimbabwe deserve special mention. They took this project seriously. The numbers during the public meetings spoke for themselves. The women took this seriously. They said what they said and with conviction. They were persuasive and we were all persuaded and as a result we have provisions in the Constitution that fairly reflect the aspirations of the women of Zimbabwe. We are very, very proud to be associated with all this.
After this Mr. Speaker Sir, we intend to embark on a massive civic education exercise and we will be requesting Members of Parliament for their usual assistance through your good offices Mr.
Speaker Sir.
We are going to embark on civic education so that the people of Zimbabwe appreciate what this Constitution says. It is their document, they ought to know it. They are going to mark us on this document and they need to do that with all eyes open.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there was a time we thought that this program was crumbling and during that time I said something to my colleagues. In conclusion I want to repeat what I said. We are in the most defining moments of the people’s struggle for democracy and justice. This requires soberness of mind and a complete focus on the grand objective. It requires sacrifice of narrow, sectional and often parochial interest for the common good. It must always be remembered that the character of a people is shown by the way they traverse the defining moment of their history. It is this that often becomes a source of great pride for the progeny of these people. Having said that, I move that the motion be adopted.
Motion put and adopted.
Hon members ululated and broke into song and dance.
On the motion of THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER (PROF
MUTAMBARA), the House adjourned at Ten Minutes past Six o’clock
p.m.to Tuesday, 12th February, 2013.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 5th February, 2013.
The House of Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(MR SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR SPEAKER
DEATH OF HON MEMBERS, JOHN LANDA NKOMO, SEISO
MOYO AND JABULANI MANGENA
MR SPEAKER: I have to inform the House of the deaths of the following hon. members;
- Hon Vice President John Landa Nkomo who died on the 17th of January 2013.
- Seiso Moyo Deputy Minister of Agriculture, Mechanisation and Irrigation Development and Member of Parliament for Nketa
Constituency on the 21st of December 2012 and,
- Hon Jabulani Mangena Member of Parliament for Mberengwa North Constituency on the 30th of November 2012.
I invite all hon. members to rise and observe a minute of silence in respect of the late hon. members.
All Hon. Members stood in silence.
ZIMBABWE WOMEN PARLIAMENTARY CAUCUS
STRATEGIC PLANNING WORKSHOP
MR SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that all Members of Zimbabwe women Parliamentary Caucus are invited to a strategic planning workshop to be held from the 8th to the 11th February 2013 at Kadoma Hotel and Conference Centre. The bus leaves Parliament building at 0900hours on Friday 8th February, 2013.
MDC-T CHANGES TO PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
MEMBERSHIP
I also have to inform the House that the MDC-T Party has made changes to committee membership whereupon Hon. Tshuma moves from the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs, Regional Integration and International Trade to Media Information and Comunication Technology.
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
- SPEAKER: I would like to acknowledge the presence of
Malbereign Girls High students in the Speaker’s Gallery. You are most welcome.
The Minister of Regional Integration and International Cooperation having sat on the back-benchers row.
- SPEAKER: Order, Hon Minister can you come forward and
assume your seat on the front bench.
THE MINISTER OF REGIONAL INTEGRATION AND INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION: There are no seats.
- SPEAKER: Honourable back-benchers can you open up for
ministers.
The Minister of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Empowerment having entered and there being no seat.
- SPEAKER: Honourable back benchers, may I request you once again please make way for the Ministers on the front benches. I do not have to ask you by name to stand up – [HON. MEMBERS:
Mutomba, Mutomba.] – [Laughter] -.
- SPEAKER: Order! Order!
MOTION
PRESIDENTAIL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: I move that the debate do now
adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th February, 2013.
MOTION
REMITTANCE OF REVENUE TO TREASURY
- F.M SIBANDA: I move the motion in my name that this
House;
NOTING that not all revenue generated and collected by various Government ministries, departments and agencies is remitted to Treasury.
CONCERNED that the Government has been unable to grant its workers meaningful salary increases and frozen the recruiting of staff and failure to carry out some of its original and international financial obligations.
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon all the Government Ministries’ Departments, Parastatals and other related bodies to remit all revenue accrued directly and indirectly by them to the Treasury.
FURTHER CALLS upon Government through the Treasury to facilitate adequate or reasonable remuneration to its workers, to enable the Government to among others:
- Motivate its workers
- Retain its highly qualified personnel
- Maintain high professional standards
- Improve their efficiency
- Become accountable and transparent
- Utilise each dollar for the good of nationhood (Zimbabwe) (vii)Prevent and control corrupt tendencies by whomever.
- GWIYO: I second.
- F.M. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker for according me this time to discuss this imminent and very important motion. I need to give background to why this motion was crafted. Before I do that, I need to quote one old saying that says, ‘Give unto Caesar what belongs to
Caesar’. I want also to thank the Ministers of Finance and Public Service for the sterling work done to encourage civil servants and the general public to continue offering service to this great nation.
If these two Ministers or ministries were not strategic, we would be having chaos among our citizenry and our important development, particularly in the civil service. The background to this motion is that we have to take cognizance of the fact that in 1990s when ESAP was introduced, Zimbabwe and neighbouring countries that adopted ESAP declined to levels beyond recognition. After a decade or so, Zimbabwe had an economic meltdown that it was even difficult to have food on the table. There were a lot of disasters especially with unemployment and factories were closed. Consequently, professionally highly qualified people had to migrate. Unfortunately, these were called diasporans. To my little knowledge about this word - disporan means people with no state, stateless people. Hence we had massive professionals in neighbouring countries. We have lost a lot of qualified personnel, therefore, this motion is not vindictive, but is persuasive and
encouraging the powers that be that we have to give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar.
Each ministry or parastatal has an obligation to pay its dues to Treasury so that Treasury plans accordingly. Each ministry and department is paid or given a budget that is adequate to prosecute its obligations. I need to mention and thank ZINARA that has been an example of giving to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. They have been distributing monies to nearly every department particularly in the road network, City Councils and so forth. This is an example of a parastatal that has honoured its obligations to the nation, though we are not very sure percentage-wise how much they keep on their own.
We have ZIMRA, the main collecting agent for Government. It has done massive work and has paid its dues to Treasury accordingly. I am so afraid, as I have already alluded to, that this motion is to induce reasoning and logical thinking than vindictiveness. It is alarming that Home Affairs is one of the most powerful and strategic ministries in this country. As I left Bulawayo yesterday, I was greeted nearly every 10 kilometres by roadblocks. We wonder whether the Treasury has ever received any remittance from the Ministry of Home affairs particularly on the networking of traffic police. They are making millions of dollars per day. I have taken statistics in Bulawayo that the commuter omnibus pay almost R500 000 a day. Early in the morning the first team which reports for duty at 8am to 12pm, they pay R20 each. When a new team comes at 2pm, they pay again R20 each. This is tantamount to high corruption and these monies should be sent to the Ministry of Finance so that it plans accordingly.
I have also visited the Registrar General’s Department where they have sophisticated machines which produce very decorative passports where thousands of people a week queue for $257.00 passport per day. If you queue for $50 passport it will take 6 months. A lot of people opt for the express one. To my analysis, I have never seen where this department remits its finances to the responsible ministry. Where does this money go to and how do they manage this massive money. It would appear it is a Government within a Government. The budget of that department might be bigger than Lesotho in monetary terms. This is a million dollar question that I persuade this august House to investigate further so that we have sanity. The ministry which dishes out funds has to have enough resources so that teachers, nurses and rest of the civil servants have something reasonable when they go to their homes.
I have also done a little bit of research in the Ministry of Mines and
Mining Development. Particularly, Minerals Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe where it is responsible for all parastatals that deal in monetary issues of mining. For example, we have Marange Resources which is a wholly owned Government parastatal. No wonder why people talk of Marange Resources rather than Marowa Diamonds in Zvishavane or River Ranch in Beitbridge. These latter ones are private and
Government only enjoys royalties and other administrative charges.
Marange Resources under the Minerals Marketing Corporation of Zimbabwe is 100% owned by Government. The people of Zimbabwe do not want to be poor. They want the resources of the country to be delivered to the rightful ministry. As I have said, give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar.
I am persuading this august House to take this motion peacefully, not aggressively and to push logic so that this House moves in unison. I am uncomfortable with demotivated workers, especially nurses and teachers who deal with brains of children, the moment they are demotivated, it makes our country retrogressive than progressive. We need to retain highly qualified personnel in all Government ministries than use second rate people. Highly qualified people are in Botswana, South African, America and that is why they are called diasporans. The word diasporan is derogatory. We need our people here so that they can develop economically, politically and socially.
We have to improve on efficiency and maintain high professional standards and become accountable to the citizenry of Zimbabwe. Any parastatal that is being supported by other parastatals should be disbanded completely because it is a waste of resources and human resources. We need to utilise each dollar for the good of nationhood whether it is hospital, clinic or Ministry of Home Affairs. We need to be cognizant that corruption takes two to tango and we have to be zero tolerant to corruption. I have realised that certain motorist with unroadworthy vehicles entice police officers because these people are poorly paid and they end up accepting bribes. So we have to prevent and control corrupt tendencies by whoever. I thank you Mr Speaker Sir.
- GWIYO: In seconding the motion raised by Hon. Sibanda, I
just want to raise as a first point, the fact that the motion is speaking to this House but its intention is actually to remind the Executive that in terms of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, all revenues collected by State agencies ought to be remitted to the national Treasury. So simply what the motion is saying is that there is some element of breach on the part of the Executive, whether it is the Ministry of Home Affairs, Treasury or the Registrar's Office. The fact is that there is laxity on the part of the Executive in terms of complying with the Constitution of Zimbabwe, in terms of revenue collection. So the motion is properly placed Mr Speaker, in that it is reaffirming what the Constitution of Zimbabwe requires in terms of funds that are collected by Government agencies.
Hon. Sibanda has already talked about the issue of spot fines by the police. This matter has been talked about in this House in the last three years. I want to mention the fact that there has been inaction on the part of the Executive especially the ministers responsible for the police to the extent that we ought to have been informed as this Hon. House that revenue which is being collected by the police is now being remitted to Treasury. It was also raised in this House that there was a moratorium that had been given to the Police and the Registrar General’s Office.
Our concern through this motion is that the purpose of the moratorium, has outlived its usefulness because we are now in a multicurrency environment where the prejudices of the Zimbabwe Dollar are no longer recurring. So it would have been high time that the revenues are remitted to Treasury. So the motion is simply raising a pointer that there is need to have a paradigm shift on the part of one of the arms of the State so that it complies with what the Legislature would have raised in compliance with the Constitution of Zimbabwe.
I also want to talk about the plight of civil servants. It is my opinion that they are genuinely in need of a salary increase. So the purpose of the motion is to try and increase the revenue collection, try and fill up the pot so that when the income is being distributed, it actually cuts across all civil servants. I also want to add that, to a certain extent, the issue of ghost workers has not been adequately addressed. These are some of the funds that the nation or Treasury is losing out by way of paying either non existent workers or paying non working people because it is two-dimensional. So the issue of the ghost workers also needs to be addressed within the same vein.
I must acknowledge Mr Speaker, the fact that the wage bill as a ratio to our Budget – in figure terms it appears fairly huge but the correct logic is that if you collect a small revenue, there is a likelihood that if you calculate your expenditure in terms of salaries, it would appear as if it is a huge percentage of the national revenue. The fact that as a nation we are not collecting enough revenue is not also a justification for not paying workers. It is not the problem of the worker. Where the State or the nation is going to raise the revenue, is the problem of those who are in power because they gave themselves the mandate to properly represent the people and also fulfill the expectations of the workers. On that score, I want to reiterate the fact that civil servants need to be paid. The national leadership need to make sure that all revenue, whether it is from Chiadzwa, at night, during the day or under water, the revenue must come to Treasury so that Treasury is in a position to pay the civil service.
I would like to end by way of making a comment as regards incentives. Personally I would like to acknowledge the role that has been played by our civil service without necessarily preempting their relevance; it is only fair to say, a bird in hand is worth a thousand in the bush. Without necessarily talking about those that may have left, I think the local civil service ought and need to be rewarded urgently, immediately and fairly. Thank you Mr Speaker.
- MADZIMURE: I want to add my voice to this important debate but I will concentrate on the issues of improved performance of revenue collection.
Mr. Speaker, corruption breeds where the systems are put in place in a way that they can be easily compromised. It is the responsibility and the main function of Treasury to make sure that all revenue that is due to the State is collected. It must be collected efficiently and effectively. That revenue must then be remitted to Treasury. It will be the responsibility of the Treasury to make sure that all the resources that are collected by the State are then used in a manner that satisfies the country.
Mr. Speaker, if you look at the financial leakages that we now have in our revenue collection system - more than 30% of our revenue is being collected by several agencies who do not remit the collections to Treasury. The problem is that in the absence of a system that makes these entities accountable, it opens up the system to a lot of corruption. It is now quite clear Mr. Speaker, that no one can hold the Police accountable for the revenue they collect. There is a temptation that the leadership of the Police will end up being corrupted by the system itself not that the people will be naturally corrupt, but, the fact is it is because the system that opens itself to manipulation. If we are a nation that wants to grow, a nation that wants to establish institutions that are transparent and accountable, we as Parliament must ensure that it is possible that all the revenues collected go to the Treasury.
Mr. Speaker, there is also a provision that some of these institutions can retain a certain percentage. What I propose is that where the money is accounted for by Treasury and then that percentage that must be retained by the specific department should be allocated that amount; it will be better for us as Parliament to speak on behalf of those departments to say the Treasury is not remitting the money to those departments.
Mr. Speaker, if you see the figures which some of these departments are now collecting and the money is not remitted to Treasury, it shows you that there is a lot of individual interests that have grown in these institutions. Mr. Speaker, corruption is now rife; to be honest with you, very few countries in this Southern Region would match Zimbabwe in the issues of corruption because of the systems that we put in place.
Also Mr. Speaker, I want the Government of Zimbabwe to start seriously considering the issue of removing the provision that allows people to use hard cash to pay for their fines. This causes serious corruption. Out of the amount that Hon. Sibanda was saying is collected by the Police, you find that they should have actually collected much higher. Where there is corruption, the person who benefits is the one that corrupts the system; it is not the person who collects the money or the State. You find that where someone was supposed to have paid
US$80, the negotiation will be that the recipient gets US$10 out of the
US$80, a person is bribed by a mere US$10, US$70 goes with that person who was supposed to pay a fine and the State gets nothing. In some cases, they reduce the fine from US$80 you are asked to pay US$20 and you pay the officer US$10. So effectively, it will only be US$30 and the State will have lost US$50.
Where people say we are not collecting enough revenue because people are corrupt. It is not those corrupt people who are benefiting; it is actually the person who pays corrupt people. It does not end up there, if you go to those who are supposed to be policing our environment, exactly the same thing happens, you are found transporting your cattle from Muzarabani to Harare, you are stopped and what you simply have to do is grease the person and you succeed.
It is important that the first starting point should be that all the money collected should go to Treasury. The second thing is that we must reduce the use of cash at these points. The same should apply to our boarders where we must use paper instead of cash. I strongly feel that the issue of transparency, efficiency, accountability is very important and for that reason we must make sure that Treasury collects every cent and it goes to the State coffers.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER
COLLECTION OF FINAL DRAFT CONSTITUTION AND
COPAC REPORT
MR SPEAKER: I wish to advise the House that copies of the Final Draft Constitution and COPAC Report are now ready for collection in the Journals Office, located First Floor, Main Parliament Building.
MR CROSS: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I rise to support this particular motion because I think it is extremely important. I do not think there is a single member of this House who has not risked to travel on the roads of Zimbabwe and go through roadblocks. Over the weekend, when ZANU PF held their Conference, the President made a very strong statement on these roadblocks and he calls for them to be closed down. The roadblocks were withdrawn for two to three days but they are back with a vengeance. When I travelled from Bulawayo to Harare the other day, I came across 22 roadblocks.
Mr. Speaker, every roadblock is tasked with a responsibility of collecting money on behalf of the Police which is then used by the Police to meet their own needs. I think this is a fundamental violation of the rules of good fiscal management and I think it is time to put this practice to an end. I no longer think that there is any justification for this system which was introduced during the Zimbabwe dollar era. I will strongly support this motion and ask the Hon. Members of this House to support the motion. I thank you.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE SECOND REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION, SPORT, ARTS AND CULTURE
ON THE CHALLENGES IN THE EDUCATION SECTOR IN
ZIMBABWE ON THE ORDER PAPER
- MANGAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move the motion in my name that the motion relating to the Second Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education, Sports, Arts and Culture on the challenges in the Education Sector in Zimbabwe which was superseded by the prorogation of Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which it had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 43. I thank you.
- MUDZURI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Education, Sports,
Arts and Culture. When we conducted the …
- SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Mudzuri, we are not yet debating the motion. The motion moved by Hon. Mangami was to the effect that she is asking this House to accept the restoration of her motion on the Order Paper and I wanted a seconder to support that. I thought you were not supporting that.
- F. M. SIBANDA: I second.
- SPEAKER: Hon. Mangami, can you move for the House to adopt your motion.
- MANGAMI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that the motion be adopted.
Motion put and agreed.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE MOTION TO AMMEND THE
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND EVIDENCE ACT ON THE ORDER
PAPER
- GONESE: I move the motion standing in my name that the motion relating to Private Members Bill to amend the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act which was superseded by the prorogation of Parliament be restored on the Order Paper at the stage at which it had reached in terms of Standing Order No. 43.
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. When I introduced the motion in this august House, there was some debate, however, the Minister of Justice indicated that he wanted to respond to the motion and he asked that he be given sufficient time to do so. Unfortunately, because of his busy schedule as the House is well aware, he is the lead negotiator for ZANU PF and it appears that he never got sufficient time to do so until we came to the end of the session. As a result the motion was then superseded by prorogation. I now seek the support of honourable members in this august House that the motion be restored to the Order Paper at the stage it had reached before it was superseded by prorogation.
- MUSHONGA: I second.
- GONESE: I now move for the adoption of the motion, Mr.
Speaker Sir.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
- MATINENGA: Mr. Speaker Sir, with your indulgence, may I move that Notices of Motion Numbers 5 and 6 be stood over until all the other motions have been dealt with.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
DISSOLUTION OF THE SPORTS AND RECREATION
COMMISSION
- CHITANDO: I move the motion standing in my name that CONCERNED by the poor performance of Zimbabwean athletes in all sporting disciplines at international fora;
NOTING that the inadequate resources being channeled to the Ministry of Education, Sports, Arts and Culture are inadequate for the development of sports thereby depriving our athletes of national pride as well as a place among competing nations;
AWARE that various reports have been submitted to the Ministry of Education, Sports, Arts and Culture over the incompetence of our sports governing bodies, in particular, the Sports and Recreation
Commission and its affiliates like the Zimbabwe Football Association;
NOW THEREFORE, this House calls upon the Minister of
Education, Sports, Arts and Culture to;
- i) Dissolve the Sports and Recreation Commission; ii) Request the Ministry of Education, Sports, Arts and Culture to provide Parliament with specific objectives and targets on how the nation will achieve success in all sporting disciplines; iii) Calls upon the Minister of Finance to allocate adequate resources in the National Budget for sports development.
- MUSHONGA: I second.
- CHITANDO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I will start with a quotation from one of the renowned sport managers of a football club. He once said you can have top stars to bring the attention; you can have the best stadium; you can have the best facilities; you can have the most beautiful projects in terms of marketing and all kinds of things but if you do not win, all the work that these people are doing is forgotten.
Mr. Speaker, Zimbabwe has seen a decline in performance in all sporting disciplines. There is no sport in which there is joy, a smile or a win is witnessed. As a nation, we should be concerned about what is really happening. Both at individual and team sport. It all brings agony; crying and some people have hypertension because of the performance of our athletes. Zimbabwe at one time was known in boxing because of Kilimanjalo, Langton Tinago, Stix Macloud, Alfonso Zvenyika and Emmanuel Nyika in Masvingo there, just to mention but a few. What has really happened?
Yes, they might have died as Hon Zhuwao is saying but we should know that runofa, runosiya rumwe. This does not mean that we do not have talent. We should all say in boxing all these people have gone but there are still some other people who are shining and raising the flag of Zimbabwe in other countries. In the United Kingdom, a country which we always hate so much, there is a Zimbabwean, Chisora who is going in the ring raising the Zimbabwean flag.
Mr. Speaker, if you go into tennis, you would see that there was the Black family or the Black brothers and sister – they shone on the world international forum on tennis. What has really happened to our tennis? We used to see the National City Sports Center being filled by youths and people going to watch the Black brothers but today it is no longer a tennis venue. It is now a venue for Makandiwa and the others. In 1980 if you can still remember Hon Minister Mnangagwa, when we attained independence, you were not a player but we all had that pride of the Hockey Team which was composed of all the white ladies. But, what has happened? Does it really mean that Hon Mnangagwa when you came into power as ZANU (PF), when we attained independence, does it mean that the whites were the only people who had the talent and we had no talent? What really happened? I am going to give answers to those questions.
Let us go to rugby and cricket – Henry Olonga, the Flower brothers – what really happened to our cricket? Was it because of politics, hatred, racism which destroyed our cricket? Today if you watch whenever Zimbabwe plays its cricket, the journalists do not have to go and watch the game because we all know the headline – Zimbabwe whitewashed. That is the vocabulary for cricket. What has happened?
You go to rugby; we used to be counted on the world cup of rugby.
What has happened?
Let me turn to athletics – the story is the same. Whilst Zimbabweans were competing with the Kenyans and Ethiopians, you can talk of Chimusasa, Chimukoko, Julia Sakala and others, they were competing with the world known athletes but what has really happened? It should be a big concern to this nation. Mr. Speaker, these examples which I have just said shows that there is great work which we should do to address the sporting industry in Zimbabwe.
Mr. Speaker, in 1989, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe appointed an advisory committee on the organization of sport in Zimbabwe which was chaired by Tommy Sithole to specifically advise on the following issues:
- The current organizational structure and governance of sport in
Zimbabwe;
- The adequacy and otherwise of the above and having regards to the current policy of governance and the ideals and objectives sport should promote in Zimbabwe;
- The method of funding various sporting activities in Zimbabwe;
- The facilities required for the effective development of sport in the fulfillment of recreational needs of the nation;
- The merit of amateur versus professional status in sports;
- Methods of identifying, taping and developing sporting talent in
Zimbabwe;
- Sport equipment – its manufacture, procurement in Zimbabwe;
- The experience of selected countries in the organization and promotion of sport;
- Any other incidental and relevant to the above.
These were the duties which were given to the Tommy Sithole Advisory Board which was set by The President of this country, then Mr
Robert Gabriel Mugabe.
However, - [AN HON MEMBER: Inaudible interjections] - how can I remember the functions which were said.
Section 19 of the Sports and Recreation Commission Act, this is the following as the objectives of the Commission. After the President had set the Tommy Sithole Advisory Board – it advised him to set the Sports and Recreation Commission (SRC) which was given the following mandate and functions.
We are going to assess - I am saying we should be able to fire and dissolve the SRC from these benchmarks which were set in 1989 which the President himself, if he was really serious about sport, that is one thing. We should say the President himself was not really serious. If he was really serious he was going to evaluate the SRC on the functions and objectives which he set for the Commission but has failed to do so.
So we are saying:
- The President should have evaluated the Sports and Recreation Commission according to Section 19 if it was able to coordinate, control, develop and foster the activities of sports and recreation.
Was it able to do that? It failed dismally. But the President let it on a laissez faire state. So we are calling this House to support the motion to dissolve the SRC because it failed to do the mandate it was given by the President.
- To ensure the proper administration of organizations undertaking the promotion of sport and recreation. Was the SRC able to promote sport and management of sport in this country? – It failed. So we are saying let us help vaMugabe and say, dissolve this. If he does not see that there is need to dissolve, I am calling this House to help the President so that we can unblind him so that he will be able to see and dissolve this.
- To promote the highest state of sportsmanship. If the President had set the SRC to promote the highest standard of sportsmanship, if we are saying there is Asia Gate – if they are saying there was so much scandal in our sporting activities and the President was watching, what was he doing? We should ask. There is something wrong if the President was not seeing it. I am calling upon this
House so that you will also be able to help the President to see what he is not able to see.
- To authorize national and international sporting and recreational activities. The other function of the SRC was to authorize national and international sporting and recreational activities. The SRC did let the Zimbabwe National team go to Asia and play dubious games knowingly and they did not even inform this House or the person who set the Commission. So what it means is that it is the right of every Zimbabwean to call for this House to dissolve the SRC. I am not going to explain some of them but it is up to you to judge if the SRC was able to perform its duty according to the functions which it was set for.
- To advise the government on the need of sport and recreation.
- To endeavor and ensure that opportunities for sport and recreation are made available to all persons throughout Zimbabwe.
- To endeavor to provide coaches, instructors and courses for sport either free or on payment of a fee.
- To endeavor to ensure recreational facilities are established in such work places as the board considers and establish and operate establishments for accommodation of visiting teams and recreational clubs.
Mr. Speaker, I will be able to say a lot of the functions were set by the President for the SRC, which they were not able to do. However, I will not be able to take all the other sports and put them to evaluation as to why we are failing. I will have to take one discipline and I believe that some of the Members of Parliament will be able to take other disciplines and debate but I will have to dwell much on soccer.
Mr. Speaker, first of all, the administration of football in this country is in state of chaos. I will first of all have to explain the state – let us look at the Premier Soccer League (PSL). The PSL owns the clubs which form the board. The sponsors of teams are the ones who are running the teams but if you look at countries like England where we have got a better league, the financiers of Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea are not the ones who are running the league. But here you are seeing my good friend Twine Phiri is the one who is running the league. So you see there is a difference. It is the person who has got the administration and double interests in the affairs of the league. We are saying this is where it is very difficult for us to go forward.
Whilst most of us will be glued to the televisions for AFCON, some of our colleagues will be mourning why we failed to qualify. I would like to say when I watch AFCON, I truly remember one member who was so passionate about soccer – that is Hon. Mangena the late. If he was here, I am sure he was going to support what I am saying because we went together to Angola with the warriors for the 90 minutes of agony which we witnessed there when we were beaten in only 5 minutes.
Mr Speaker, it is more than 30 years after Independence and we failed even to host the AFCON when we were given the chance. What was the reason? In all the SADC countries which I have studied, it is only Zimbabwe where you have the Ministry of Sport bundled in the Ministry of Education. You can not have books and sports together. It does not work. What works in other countries is that they have the Ministry of Sport and Youth and the Ministry of Education stands on its own. If the President was really serious, there was only one time when he tried to do it but he only chose the wrong peg. It was a square peg he tried to put in a round hole when he introduced a dog race in this country when Hon Kwidini was the Minister of Sport. Hon. Mnangagwa still remembers that project which failed dismally. The dog racing sport tried to change the whole idea of Rufaro Stadium into a dog race stadium and forgot about the most popular sport – football. Mr.
Speaker, it shows a lack of vision. The only thing which is sensible Hon. Members, I think, if we have got true people who have the love of the sport, I think, we should not talk of qualifying for AFCON; we should not talk of qualifying for the World Cup – it should be routine. If we have people who have no sense, no vision – we will not be there – it will be year in and year out crying.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the problem is, thirty-two years of Independence,
VaShamu goes to Dembare and be called, ‘The Patron’ – a patron, a minister who goes to be a patron of a team which is still administering its activities under a tree. Are you not ashamed? You should just resign
– a team which is number eight in Africa; which does not have even a Club House; which does not have even a training house, a training ground; which goes to the Ralton and you say, ‘I am the Patron’. It is not that you are interested in soccer; it is not that you are interested in the game of football but you are interested in politics there. Get out and we will be able to qualify.
Hon. Bhasikiti, get out of politics in football and let the people that are interested in football in so that we qualify. The problem is, we are having people that are so much interested in politics that want to get the interference of politics into soccer…. – [MR. BHASIKITI: Honourable you have a point but you cannot speak my friend] - Thank you Mr. Bhasikiti, it is not a question of stealing mangoes here, it is a question of talking of a very important subject.
When we are talking of sport, the first thing a country should have is talent identification. This country lost the opportunity to have a correct development of sports identification programmes. The reason why we did it is that instead of building schools of excellence in sport, we were building brigades – Youth Brigades. We were really keen on political violence instead of being keen to develop the child. I think we should be able to set our goals correctly. The nation is looking at us; the nation is looking at this House – why we are failing to qualify. It is not the question of ZIFA why we are failing to qualify, it is the question that this Parliament, this Executive – from the President they are not really keen for this country to qualify. I think, those soccer loving people of Zimbabwe should be able to choose their leaders whom they know are going to make them qualify because for thirty-two years we should be a nation that is always qualifying through the back door.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to rest my case by saying, sport is a very big business. What we need is to create jobs; we should have to uplift the standard of our soccer; we should have investment in our sport; we should have capital and correct environment. So we should introduce juice in our sport – if we are to introduce juice truly, the people of Zimbabwe are going to be happy. We are going to qualify. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
- MUSHONGA: Mr. Speaker, sport is business – our sport can actually improve our tourism. We are over fourteen million
Zimbabweans but we failed to make it to the AFCON Party whilst Cape Verde with only half a million people partaking compared to us – that is a shame. We are watching from across the Limpopo whilst the party is going on in South Africa.
Zimbabweans are known for passing blame. We blame everyone else except ourselves and this is very unfortunate. We blame ZIFA – ZIFA which we know is bankrupt and ZIFA on its part is busy witchhunting the Asiagate Scandal and so forth. As a result, we had a depleted Zimbabwean team that was thoroughly beaten in Angola and brought a lot of misery to my friend.
Yes, there is no money which this government is putting in soccer or in sports and the coffers are very dry. In other countries, in order to avoid that, they encourage military institutions to be sports academies – the Police, the army can actually produce very good sportsmen. This takes me to Zambia, in the last AFCON – their star players were military people because they have military institutions which nurture sporting talent. Why can we not do the same in Zimbabwe? Why can we not learn from our neighbours?
We know that the military – we have Black Rhinos and other teams – if they are properly managed, they can actually produce the
Peter Ndlovu’s of this world but we are not doing it as a country and we have ourselves to blame. A small academy in Highfield has produced the Musona brothers who are now the pride of this nation. They do not have a grant from government and we expect to do miracles when we are not funding it – nothing can stick on nothing. If we as Zimbabweans want to excel in sport, we have to invest in sport and I totally support my friend, Hon. Chitando, that without investment in sport, we will always cry foul, we will always – the Zimbabwean style, ‘blame each other’.
We have also destroyed our sport by political interference. Our dirty political hands have been seen in cricket and cricket has gone down; our political hands have been seen in soccer and our soccer is not thriving. We call upon politicians to keep their dirty hands out of sport so that our sport can thrive. It is not for anybody’s interest but for the future of this nation. We have not done anything as Zimbabwe to train a future Coach for this country. We are blaming Rahman Gumbo for failing to qualify yet we have never sent Rahman Gumbo for a single training in Brazil. We have never sent him for a single training in Germany but we expect to succeed and you blame him for that – what is
that?
We need to start training our own talent. Let us take Peter Ndlovu to Brazil; let us take Moses Chunga to Germany. Let us train them for the future of Zimbabwe and stop this blame game and if we do that -
Zimbabwe will never have a Keshi like the Nigerians who is leading their team in South Africa. I want us to look forward, put our political differences aside and prepare for this nation. We are a great nation, we are the jewel of Africa but what are we showing for that - that greatness? We have the most learned Cabinet in Africa, we have the most learned leaders in this country but we have no vision and a nation with no vision
is lost.
I encourage this House to adopt this motion and let us have a vision for our sport. This is Zimbabwe – it does not belong to anybody, it belongs to us, it belongs to the past and to the future.
Thank you Mr. Speaker.
- BHASIKITI: I want to congratulate Hon. Chitando for bringing this motion which is quite an important motion. Perhaps, I may, for the benefit of clarity try to improve on the recommendations but first and foremost we should take it seriously that we need to develop sport in our country. The first take-off point is to separate sport from the academic disciplines. This requires a new department, a whole department charged with sport development to develop it at
kindergarten. Even the Grade Zero, their talents in sports have to be identified and developed at Primary and Secondary School level.
I think our main emphasis should be two-dimensional, that is, sport is also a great employer and one of the greatest empowerment fields. I know this is captured in one of the documents within the indigenization and empowerment policies that we need to empower our young people to develop their talents, to make a living out of soccer, netball, athletics and all the various sporting activities.
As Africans, I know, yes, there are some of the games which were introduced although it might not have been a matter of a race, game or sport but it was developing that group of people to excel in certain skills. We should look at what really develops the African child. We used to know that the Bushmen would run and make sure that they catch a lion or an elephant by just following it trotting. Those skills, athletic skills are quite rich in us and we can compete favourably if we develop them.
What I want to suggest is that, rather than say the Ministry of
Sport, Arts, Culture and we lump too many things in one ministry, let us be very clear and say we want this ministry to be a stand-alone ministry and it should be a requirement. Once we do that then we are also in a way enabling Treasury to direct resources to a specific ministry which has a specific mandate to develop our sports facilities and our sporting talents within the nation.
I think it is important that in every district we develop these sport academics. Let alone reduce from district to ward centres or areas where people would on daily basis be practicing and developing their skills. These skills are very important not only for physical fitness but in terms of earning a living from most of our people who are gifted in most of these disciplines.
So I will agree with Hon. Chitando that at least we now need a new focus. Yes, we cannot do all things at the same time. When we started after our independence, the most important challenge was to reduce and improve on the literacy gap and hence, His Excellency in his wisdom developed the intellect and built many schools to reduce the illiteracy level which was predominant amongst us. I thought Hon. Chitando would have credited that one. But now we are at another stage of our national development where we are saying now it is important to compete internationally in sport and develop it.
Now that we have developed all these other disciplines – academics we have done so well but areas where we need to develop, where we have challenges, is the sport. You can over burden what you call the Sports and Recreation Council. If you put a very good instrument in a wrong environment it will not work. So I do not want to blame the Sports and Recreation Council for trying its best in a wrong environment. The proper environment is a sporting ministry and it is from that ministry and department that those in the Sports and Recreation Commission can work favourably. Now they will be competing with academics who will be telling them the most important priorities are A,B,C when they are pegged at a G. So it is better we separate and then if we do that we will be able to develop our sport and realize the most important aspirations and dreams we have which have been rightly pointed out by Hon. Chitando.
It is true that an indicator or the litmus test for our excellence in sport can be identified already from the Kilimanjaros and from other outstanding sporting personnel we have across the different sporting disciplines. All it means is, we are not developing the majority of people to that level but we have the capacity. We have the potential to develop them to the Apex levels. So at this point it is important.
I know that the next Government on the day after elections, if it is properly guided by the empowerment models which has been propagated by those who are not ashamed of saying let us empower the African child. Let us empower the Zimbabwean person, the indigenous person to excel and compete favourably against all other races. Then I know this matter will be taken seriously and will be implemented in the next Government. However, that Government will obviously remain under the leadership of none other than that of His Excellency and his party.
In ending my support submissions to this motion presented by
Hon. Chitando. I think he will agree with me that should he find time, it would be important to relook at the presentations and the recommendations which he wants Parliament to endorse for the record that this House is seeking to have a stand-alone ministry on sport because we feel it is important. We do not want it to be lumped, neither do we want to keep on calling Hon Coltart to talk about these things when we know his fine brains in the legal fraternity will only help to structure the rules or guidelines which the sporting ministry can execute alone.
I submit that it is an important motion and we are all in support of this motion but we want this to be taken seriously as a stand-alone ministry.
MRS. MANGAMI: I also want to thank Hon. Chitando for the
motion he has just raised. In adding my voice to this motion, I actually go with some of the recommendations which he has made. To begin with, sport is there for competition or enjoyment. On enjoyment, I think the sporting activities have been successful. On the part of competition, that is where there are challenges which I think if the ministry as the committee has also recommended, if it is made to stand alone, I think enough resources might be channeled towards the activity.
I say so because very little has been given to SRC in terms of resources. If one has not been given resources or tools to perform, it is really difficult to execute the duty effectively and at times they end up pumping from their own pockets. For us to evaluate that they have failed when we have not given them resources, it would be really unfair. I believe if they are not given resources as they are now in order to make an evaluation on their performance, it would really be a bias. Apart from that, those that are involved in these sporting activities also need remuneration. Sporting facilities need to be looked at.
We do not have to look at sporting activities at higher levels alone, instead we should look at them even at grass roots as well. In the ministry not much is being done in terms of sponsoring sporting activities in schools such that parents are paying what is called sports fee. The government is not contributing anything in terms of finances that are used to sponsor sporting activities. I say so because NAFF and NASH are running sporting activities solely on their own. It is a parents’ sponsored activity. It will not go anywhere because parents’ resources are really limited.
I, therefore, recommend that there is no need to dissolve the Sports and Recreation Commission. I was actually looking at the second recommendation, to say the hon. member requests the ministry to provide Parliament with specific objectives and targets on the nation which will achieve its sporting objective – of course I agree with him.
On the last recommendation, where he indicated that in the next budget I think it would be advisable for our government to give enough resources to the Ministry of Education, Sport and Culture. If we are going to be looking at the personalities involved in SRC then we could be misled. I understand on several occasions when we read in newspapers that some members within the SRC are actually contributing to some of the games that are being played.
I want to thank the hon. member for the motion and say if we can take up his recommendations especially the third recommendation and adopt it in the House for the improvement and betterment of sports.
- GWIYO: I would like first of all to thank Hon. Chitando for bringing this noble motion in this august House. I am in support of most of the recommendations and the contributions made by a number of hon. members. I would like to come up with a specific one that I feel in order to have good sporting system in this country what we need is a change of mind set because if you can see what is happening in this country, sports is only considered important at higher levels especially at national level. At primary schools or at homes, it is not regarded as very important. It is only taken seriously at higher levels, national level and other competitions.
What we need is to have a change of mind set whereby we promote sport from the young ages of our children. If you go in town today, whether it is down town or up town, you see very few shops that sell sporting equipment like tennis and football kits. I think that is what we need to change. If you go to countries like Brazil, in every market or shopping mall you see that there are some sporting ware. You can buy some jerseys and soccer balls because sport is being promoted. In this country when you want to talk about sport, it is only when there is a competition. If you want to talk about camping, it is only when there is a big completion like the Africa Cup of Nations and World Cup that is when you see ministers trying to seek publicity by wanting to be patron of so and so.
We are not doing much to promote sport at the grassroots level. My contribution is that we need to start at the grassroots. We need to start promoting sport at village level and primary school level rather than just trying to hijack things at the top. I think that is what we need to make sure that sport is being promoted in this country. It is not only enough to say that the Ministry of Finance must allocate so much money to the national team or cricket national squad but what we just need as individual families is to promote sport at the smallest level so that it can develop.
We can not just develop into a soccer power house at the national level or secondary school level. We need to start at the lower level.
MS D. SIBANDA: Mr Speaker, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
MRS MATIENGA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 6th February, 2013.
On the motion of MS D. SIBANDA seconded by MRS MATIENGA, the House adjourned at Six Minutes Past Four O'clock p.m.
ADVANCE COPY-UNCORRECTED
No. 4
PARLIAMENT
OF
ZIMBABWE
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VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE SENATE
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SECOND SESSION – SIXTH PARLIAMENT
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TUESDAY 12TH SEPTEMBER 2006
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Half-past two o’clock p.m
President of the Senate in the Chair |
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PRAYERS Members Present |
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Bayayi F. Chief Charumbira Chiduku Chikava B. Cimbudzi A. Chimene M. M. Dete A. A. Dube G. Gambiza Chief Georgias A. C. Goto R. Gumbura L. C. Haritotas P. Khumalo D. |
Maduna Chief Magadu R. F. E. Mahere S. C. Majuru S. Makono E. Malaba Chief Malinga J. T. Mapfumo T. J. Marange C. H. H. Matanga T. Z. Mbambo L. Mkhwedu A. Mohadi T. B. Moyo E. N. |
Moyo J. Msipa S. Muchane Chief Muchenje V. Muchicho V. N. M. Mumbengegwi S.C. Mumvuri D. D. E. Munotengwa L. Musarurea Chief Mutinhiri T. Muzenda T. V. Ndlovu N. Ndlovu R. Ndlovu T. |
Negomo Chief Nemakonde Chief Nyoni G. Patel L. Richard H. Rungani A. Sakupwanya S. U. Sengwe Chief Sinampande H. M. Tawengwa C. Thembani S. Z. Zvinavashe V. M. G.
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Printed by the Order of the Senate
Absent with leave
Senator Cikwanha
Senator Muchemgeti
Senator Mukusha
- The President of the Senate informed Senators that the following Portfolio Committees had been invited to a half-day seminar on the Domestic Violence Bill (H.B. 9, 2006), at Wild Geese Lodge on Monday, 18th September 2006:
- Justice Legal and Parliamentary Affairs
- Defence and Home Affairs
- Health and Child Welfare
- Education, Sport and Culture
- Youth, Gender and Employment Creation
- The President of the Senate informed all Women Senators that the Women In Politics Support Unit (WIPSU) had invited them to the Official launch of its new offices on Wednesday 13th September 2006.
- The President of the Senate reminded Senators to verify the information on their biographies and to return them to the Public Relations Department by the end of the day on Wednesday 13th September 2006 and that any changes to the biographies after that date would not be reflected.
- The President of the Seante informed Senators that a half- day workshop on Transformation and Development of the National Statistical System would be held on 14th September 2006, at the Wild Geese Lodge between 9am and 1pm and that for further details Senators could contact the Public Relations Department .
- Reports from the Parliamentary Legal Committee NOT being adverse reports on the following:- Date received
All Statutory Instruments for the months of June and July 2006…….12th September 2006.
- Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech (Adjourned 8th August 2006 – The Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment.)
[Time elapsed: 55 minutes]
Question again proposed: That a respectful address be presented to the President of
Zimbabwe as follows –
May it please you, your Excellency the President we, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament – Senator E. N. Moyo.
On the motion of Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment: Debate adjourned until tomorrow.
- Adjourned debate on motion on sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by the European
Union (Adjourned 8th August 2006 – The Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment).
Question again proposed: That this House:
NOTING that economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by the European Union(EU), the United Kingdom (UK), and the United States of America (USA) are hurting the lives of ordinary Zimbabweans and driving many into poverty;
AWARE that the sanctions on Zimbabwe are punitive and generally political because of Zimbabwe’s Land Reform Programme;
NOW THEREFORE, calls upon the EU, UK and USA to withdraw sanctions and end their hostile propaganda in favour of diplomatic solutions; and appeals to the international community to support the call for removal of the sanctions and the unlocking of bilateral aid and financial support as well as international goodwill - Senator A. C. Georgious
On the motion of Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment: Debate adjourned until tomorrow.
- On the motion of the Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment: The Senate adjourned at nine minutes past three o’ clock p.m.
- MADZONGWE,
President of the Senate.
WEDNESDAY 13TH SEPTEMBER 2006
ORDERS OF THE DAY AND NOTICE OF MOTION
- HON. SENATOR T. NDLOVU
HON. SENATOR BAYAYI
That this House:-
NOTING that the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority (ZESA) has set October 31, 2006, as the deadline for phasing out all fixed load limiters and replacing them with a metered supply;
CONCERNED that the minimum installation cost is overwhelmingly way beyond the ability of the majority of consumers to pay by the deadline;
NOW, THEREFORE, CALLS upon the government to intervene and alleviate the consumer’s plight by instructing ZESA to meet all the installation costs and stagger the recovery of installation costs incurred from consumers over an extended period.
- Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech (Adjourned 12th September 2006 – The Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment).
[Time elapsed: 1 hour 45 minutes]
Question proposed: That a respectful address be presented to the President of
Zimbabwe as follows –
May it please you, your Excellency the President we, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament – Senator E. N. Moyo.
- Adjourned debate on motion on sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by the European
Union (Adjourned 12th September 2006 – The Minister of Indigenisation and Empowerment.)
[Days elapsed: 2]
Question proposed: That this House-
NOTING that economic sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by the European Union(EU), the United Kingdom (UK), and the United States of America (USA) are hurting the lives of ordinary Zimbabweans and driving many into poverty;
AWARE that the sanctions on Zimbabwe are punitive and generally political because of Zimbabwe’s Land Reform Programme;
NOW THEREFORE,
Calls upon the EU, UK and USA to withdraw sanctions and end their hostile propaganda in favour of diplomatic solutions; and appeals to the international community to support the call for removal of the sanctions and the unlocking of bilateral aid and financial support as well as international goodwill – Senator Georgias.
NOTICES OF MEETINGS
WEDNESDAY 13TH SEPTEMBER 2006
Committee Room No. 4 at 0900 hrs
LIAISON AND COORDINATION: Hon. J. M. Gumbo, (Chairperson), Hon. Buka, Hon.
Butau, Hon. Chebundo, Hon. Chipanga, Hon. Gabbuza, Hon. Gonese, Hon. Khupe, Hon. Col.
Makova, Hon. L. Mugabe, Hon. Mahofa, Hon. Mawere, Hon. Mhashu, Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga, Hon. Mzembi, Hon. W. Ncube, Hon. Porusingazi, Hon. Zinyemba, Clerk – Mr.
Chokuda.
MONDAY 18TH, SEPTEMBER 2006
Committee Room No. 4 at 1400 hrs
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS: Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga (Chairperson) Hon. Chamisa, Hon.
Chief Chimombe, Hon. Senator Gava, Hon. Kadzima, Hon. Matimba, Hon. Senator
Mavhaire, Hon. Moyo L, Hon. Mupukuta, Hon. Ncube F D., Hon. Senator Nyoni, Hon.
Senator Patel, Hon. Satiya, Hon. Stevenson, Hon. Senator Thembani - Clerk- Hon.. Daniel
Committee Room No. 1 at 1400 hrs
PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE: Hon. Mawere (Chairperson),
Hon. Baloyi, Hon. Senator Chief Charumbira, Hon. Chibaya, Hon. Senator Gumbura, Hon.
Gwetu, Hon. Senator Haritatos, Hon. Senator Madiro, Hon. Maluleke, Hon. Matutu, Hon.
Maziriri, Hon. Mpariwa, Hon. Mushore, Hon. Senator Nyathi, Clerk- Mr.s Nyakauta
Committee Room No. 4 at 1400hrs
BUDGET, FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Hon. Butau (Chairperson),
Chief Bidi, Hon. Biti, Hon. Bhebhe, Hon. Senator Charumbira, Hon. Senator Chikava, Hon.
Senator Kabayanjiri, Hon. Kanzama, Hon. Senator Khumalo, Hon. Khupe, Hon. Majange,
Hon. Senator Malinga, Hon. Mashakada, Hon. Matuke, Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Mzembi, Hon. Ncube, D. M. Clerk – Mr.s. Khumalo
Committee Room No. 1 at 1000hrs
TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS: Hon.. Mugabe L (Chairperson), Hon..
Chimbaira, Hon. Chikomba, Hon. Machirori, Hon. Senator Magadu, Hon. Mdlongwa, Hon.
Senator Moyo, Prof. Moyo, Hon.. Ncube, D. M, Senator Rita Ndlovu, Hon.. Porusingazi, Hon. Pote, Hon. Senator Sai, Hon. Sikhala, Hon.. Ziyambi, Hon. Zwizwai, Clerk – Mr. Nyamayaro
TUESDAY, 19TH SEPTEMBER 2006
Committee Room No. 3 at 1000 hrs
FOREIGN AFFAIRS, INDUSTRY AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE: Hon. Porusingazi
(Chairperson), Hon. Senator Chimene, Hon. Senator Georgios Hon. Gumbo J. M., Hon.
Senator Hove, Hon. Chief Mabika, Hon. Malinga, Hon. Mhashu, Hon. Senator Muchengeti,
Hon. Mugabe, Hon. Mukahlera, Hon. Senator Mumvuri, Hon. Mushoriwa, Hon. Mutomba, Hon. Ndlovu, Hon. Senator T. Ndlovu, Hon. Chief Shana. Clerk – Mr. Ratsakatika.
Government Caucus at 1000 hrs
LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Hon. Zinyemba, (Chairperson), Hon. Chidarikire, Hon.
Chimanikire, Hon. Gonese, Hon. Machaya, Hon. Majange, Hon. Senator Majuru, Hon.
Matimba, Hon. Matamisa, Hon Matuke, Hon. Chief Mudzimurema, Hon. Senator
Munotengwa, Hon. Senator Musarurwa, Hon. Stevenson, Hon. Senator Tavengwa. Clerk – Mrs Sunga
Committee Room No. 1 at 1000 hrs
DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND NATIONAL SECURITY: Col. Makova
(Chairperson), Hon. Chipanga, Hon. Gwachiwa, Hon. Kadzima, Hon. Khupe, Hon..
Madzimure, Hon.. Makova. Senator Malaba, Senator Mbambo, Senator Moyo, Hon.
Mubhawu, Hon.. Mutomba, Hon.. Mutsekwa, Prof. Ncube W., Hon. Senator Rungani, Hon. Zinyemba. Clerks – Mr. Daniel and Ms Manyeruke
Committee Room No. 4 at 1000 hrs
LANDS, LAND REFORM, RESETTLEMENT AND AGRICULTURE: Hon. Mzembi
(Chairperson), Hon. Chief. Bushu, Hon. Senator Chiduku, Hon. Senator Chikwanha, Chief. Chimombe, Senator Dete, Hon.. Gabbuza, Hon. Katsande, Hon. Senator D. Khumalo, Hon.
Mahofa, Hon.. Mguni, Hon. Mkhosi, Hon. Mugabe, Hon. Pote, Hon. Senator Zvinavashe.
Clerk – Mr. Ndlovu
THURSDAY, 21ST SEPTEMBER 2006
Committee Room No. 4 at 1000 hrs
EDUCATION, SPORT AND CULTURE: Hon. Mhashu (Chairperson), Hon. Baloyi,
Hon. Senator Chimbudzi, Hon. Senator Chindanya, Hon. Madubeko, Hon. Maluleke,
Hon. Maziriri, Hon. Mguni, Hon. Senator Mkusha, Hon. Moyo L, Hon. Prof. J. Moyo, Hon. Senator Muchengeti, Hon. Mupukuta , Hon. Mutomba , Hon. Mutsekwa, Hon.
Pote , Hon. Chief Shana, Hon. Sibindi, Hon. Senator Sengwe. Clerk – Mrs Sunga.
Harare International Conference Centre at 0900 hrs
JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Mr. Chipanga (Chairperson),
Senator Bayayi, Chief Bidi, Mr Chidarikire, Mr. Chipanga Mr. Coltart, Mr. Gumbo J. M,
Mrs. Machirori- Sandura, Senator Mahere, Mr. Malinga, Mr. Madzimure, Chief Malisa, Mr. Matutu, Senator Mapfumo, Senator Marange, Mrs. Mawere, Mrs. Misihairabwi- Mushonga, Senator Mtshane, Chief Mudzimurema. Clerk – Ms Macheza
Committee Room No. 2 at 1000 hrs
MINES, ENVIRONMENT AND TOURISM: Mr. Gabbuza (Chairperson), Mr. Butau, Mr.
Chandengenda, Chief Dandawa, Senator Dube, Senator Gambiza, Mrs. Katsande, Mr.
Machaya, Senator Maduna, Col. Makova, Senator Mohadi, Senator Msipa, Senator
Muchenje, Mr. Mungofa, Mr. Mushore, Mr. Ndlovu, Mr. Sansole, Mr. Sibindi. Clerk – Ms
Dube
Harare International Conference Centre at 0900 hrs
YOUTH, GENDER AND WOMEN’S AFFAIRS: Mrs. Mahofa (Chairperson), Chief
Bushu, Mr. Chikomba, Mr. Chebundo, Mr. Chibaya, Chief Dandawa, Senator Goto, Mr Kanzama, Mr. Madzore, Senator Makono, Senator Matanga, Mrs. Matamisa, Ms. Mugabe, Mr. Mukahlera, Senator Nemakonde, Mrs. Satiya. Clerk – Ms Gondo.