PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 1st June, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have to
inform the Senate that I have received the Electricity Amendment Bill [H. B. 7, 2022] from the National Assembly.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I have a list of Hon. Ministers who have sent their apologies as follows:
Hon. Rtd. General Dr. C. G. D. N. Chiwenga, Minister of Health and Child Care;
Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans;
Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
Hon. M. Mutsvangwa, Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services;
Hon. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;
Hon. S. I. Kanhutu-Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce;
Hon. Prof. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
Hon. A. Ncube, Minister of State for Matabeleland South Province;
Hon. Prof. A. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
Hon. Amb. Dr. F. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;
Hon. Dr. A. J. Masuka, Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement;
Hon. D. Marapira, Minister of State in Hon. Vice President’s Office
Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities;
Hon. J. G. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works;
Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Youth Sport, Arts and Recreation
Present Are: -
Hon. F. T. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development;
Hon. D. P. S. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education;
Hon. R. Machingura, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
Hon. D. Musabayana, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade and
Hon. L. Matuke, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Moyo. Hon. Minister, what is Government policy on children who cannot afford to pay school fees? I know that children cannot be denied their Right to Education because their parents cannot afford to pay school fees. Does your policy remove children from school on the basis of parents failing to pay school fees or the children stay in school and you find other means of recovering the money from the parents? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Madam President and thank you to the Hon. Senator for the question. Every child in Zimbabwe has a right to education whether they have the fees or not. Those whose parents are able to pay fees do pay. Those whose circumstances are such that they are unable to pay fees are then covered under certain programmes that Government has put in place, chief amongst them is the Basic Education Assistance Module (BEAM) programme which is going to be covering 1.8 million children this year.
We also have partners that have partnered with education in this country and through several organisations they pay fees for students. However, in the event that a child finds themselves in a kind of island where no programme covers them and their parents are struggling to pay fees, schools have no right to send those children out of school or to remove them. They have to allow students to proceed with their education without interaction but then engage parents and come up with payment plans to pay those fees. Those schools – I will repeat it today and I have said it before, who send students home are committing a crime against the rights of those children to education. They must be reported to authorities and corrective measures should be taken.
I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House that with effect from this term, several heads had charges preferred against them for contravening that particular policy. They are currently going through disciplinary processes as per relevant statutes. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. CHEZHA: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport. Who do we ask about issues to do with roads? I come from Matabeleland North. The Bulawayo-Victoria Falls road and the Bulawayo-Nkayi road is in a bad state. The Bulawayo-Binga road is also not in a good condition…
*THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Sen. Chezha, your question is specific, hence there is need to put it in writing so that you get a detailed response.
+HON. SEN. CHEZHA: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport regarding the accidents that we find on our roads. What plan is Government doing in that regard? We appreciate that you are doing a good job but looking at Bulawayo-Victoria Falls Road, tourism is declining because of the poor state of the road. Government is losing a lot of money.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): The question that was asked by Hon. Sen. Chezha gives me the opportunity to explain to the nation, and I appreciate that we are trying like you said because when we look at other countries, you would find that some roads are not serviced by Government, which means that the Government that we have is allocating to roads and other projects.
Zimbabwe is under sanctions and this is affecting us in terms of having money from the World Bank and other financial institutions which fund other countries. For instance, they fund different projects in different countries but because Zimbabwe is under sanctions, we rely on the National Budget. Looking at the road that you mentioned, we have the Victoria Falls Road which comes from Beitbridge via Bulawayo. Indeed, people are facing challenges along that road and His Excellency sent me to go and check the road in Hwange – the road was bad but as I am speaking, we have started working on it. It is applaudable that there is progress on that road. When you go to Victoria Falls, there is Bitumen which started working on the road from Lupane to Hwange. Right now, they are busy working on that road but indeed, the road was in a poor state. We did not end there. We are going to other roads like Beitbridge-Bulawayo road. There were some portions that were bad but as I am speaking, there is a contractor working on the road.
Then there is Nkayi-Bulawayo Road, I was speaking to Hon. Sen. Phugeni and I was telling him that we were going to complete the first 15 kilometres then we continue to Nkayi. After covering those 15 kilometres with tar, then we will work on the rest of the road so that it is in a good condition. We will continue with the projects so that our roads are in a better state at national level. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. In line with aspirations of Vision 2030, the Government, through National Development Strategy 1 (NDS1) envisages to accelerate engagement and re-engagement process aimed at re-intergrating Zimbabwe into a formidable global position. Now with regards to the policy of Government, may the Hon. Minister explain to this House what progress has been made and what further strategies are being used to ensure that we quickly get to the position that we need in the country?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON DR. MUSABAYANA): Thank you Madam President. I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking a pertinent question which borders on the milestones Zimbabwe has made in line with the National Development Strategy (NDS1), which is a programme which ….
[Cellphone rang]
Sorry about that Madam President. I beg your pardon. I want to thank you for the important question that he has raised in regards to how far we have gone in term of implementing the National Development Strategy (NDS1), when it comes to engagement and re-engagement and to put back Zimbabwe on the global agenda or on the map. Over the years we have been alienated, we have been treated as a pariah State and most lines of communication have been surveyed especially with the West. The coming in of His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa in 2017, we saw him pronouncing new mantras or philosophies that were focusing on mending the broken bridges.
He also went on to pronounce his philosophy of friends to all and enemy to none and also ensuring that all the engagements that had fallen by the wayside with the West would be restarted. Over the years, we have done engagements with the West. We started with the EU where we had the Zimbabwe/EU dialogue. We had three sessions and we managed to ensure that the illegal sanctions which were put on Zimbabwe were removed by the EU. They removed all the sanctions, except one of our defence companies. That is the only one that has remained.
When it comes to America and the UK, again we had a challenge with these countries where they were not engaging Zimbabwe anymore. They were not inviting our envoys. They were not even bringing their envoys into this country, but after the coming in of His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa, we have also seen a number of special envoys coming in from UK and also from USA. Last year alone, we have more than four envoys that came from UK. Last year we saw the President being invited to Glasgow on the Climate Summit. This year, we saw His Excellency the President being invited to the coronation of King Charles the Third.
When you see the UK inviting Zimbabwe, it shows that they now believe that Zimbabwe is a like-minded nation in terms of issues around democracy, issues around the way we manage our affairs in the country. It shows that we have done well in implementing the NDS1 and also ensuring that we have engagement and re-engagement. We also look at USA which has also been on the forefront of imposing sanctions and the USA has imposed the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act. ZIDERA is one of the albatross that the Hon. Minister was also alluding to that it is difficult to transact in terms of trade and foreign direct investment on the international platform, especially the Swift platform. In the last few years, we have also seen the USA warming up and the Minister of Foreign Affairs was invited to the Africa/USA Summit which was never done before. Again, that shows that we have made progress in engaging the USA.
We have also started seeing American companies investing in Zimbabwe. We have seen the John Deere facility which was over USD50 million, which means now they are beginning to allow some of their companies to do business and invest in Zimbabwe. Even as we speak, there are various business people that are coming into the country to try and engage and also to do business with Zimbabwe. With the East, we have always been close friends, that is the likes of China, Russia and so forth but we have not just relegated that or ignored that relationship. We have reaffirmed that relationship where we have also a lot of engagement, investment coming through from China.
You have seen the Parliament Building, our airport that are being renovated and the construction that has taken place in those areas. We have also seen Japan coming in, in the Chirundu Road where they are also doing massive infrastructure development in that area. Our border posts are now being one-stop-shop border posts. The Beitbridge, the Chirundu and all the other border posts, we are also focusing with them where we are implementing the ASYCUDA system. That shows the international cooperation with the rest of the world.
We have also seen the President coming up with a model of debt repayment. One of the key issues where Zimbabwe was banished from the international platform from the table where other nations were discussing issues and also discuss international distribution of income or funds. The President has taken a bold stance where he has said now, let us sit at the round table with our creditors. Instead of not paying back the creditors or shunning them, we have sat down with them. We have done three forums where we are sitting with the creditors and our champion was identified where also the former President of Mozambique, President Chissano is assisting in that area.
We have seen tremendous progress where we are beginning and opened communication channels with our creditors because one, we speak to our creditors and agree on payment plans. It also gives confidence to international investors that as Zimbabwe we do not run away from our responsibilities, we do not run away from our creditors. It is actually a strategy that will create or open new pathways in terms of international credit and also allowing our foreign direct investors into the country. We have also signed a lot of BIPPAs, which goes to show that we want to protect the investments for foreign investors into the country. In that move, it shows that we are generating or emotionally banking with those nations that want to invest in this country.
We have also seen the President, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa opening new frontiers in terms of opening up missions, Belarus, Rwanda and other UAE where we see new streams of investment coming into the country. That goes to show that we have done a lot in terms of that pillar of implanting NDS1. As I sit down Madam President, I want to underline that going forward, the strategy has been to grow the economy through foreign direct investment and also through exports. We have done a lot of work through our Zimtrade and our missions to ensure that there is a rebound in the export of our fruits and vegetables, exports of our flowers and we have huge orders coming in from the UAE and from Europe, Britain included. That goes to show that as a Ministry, in terms of trade, we have done well in that sphere of implementing NDS1.
As I sit down Madam President, I want to underline that going forward, the strategy has been to grow the economy through foreign direct investment and also through exports. So, we have done a lot of work through our ZimTrade and our mission to ensure that there is a rebound in the export of our fruit and vegetables, flowers and we have huge orders coming from the U.A.E, Europe and Britain. That goes to show that as a Ministry, in terms of trade, we have done well in that sphere.
As I speak Hon. President, the biggest challenge we have at the moment …
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I thought you said “as you are sitting down” – [Laughter.] – If it is answering Hon. Sen. Kambizi’s question, I think you have done so.
HON. MUSABAYANA: Thank you so much. I also wanted to just underline before I sit down that our biggest challenge is now the constraint of production. We have so much orders from the U.A.E, China, Europe and U.K but we have not fulfilled those orders in terms of production but in terms of our work as Foreign Affairs, we have opened up the space for markets. I so submit.
THE HON. PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Ooh, your answer benefitted the whole House. I think you are in a better position to understand what is taking place in the Ministry of Trade.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. We have got borders, let me just say conclusively that at the borders, there is a department that deals with tollgates and the like. At those borders, particularly when we talk about Beitbridge which is busy, you find that there are a lot of people who go there. After the finishing of that border post, things changed of which I think even at other borders, it is just the same. We have got local people who cross on daily basis, especially in Beitbridge, there are no markets where they can buy their groceries. People go to buy their groceries across the river which is only 13 km away from the tar. These people cross those borders twice or three times a day and for someone to go to and from, it costs something like $80 which is very expensive. Can you not think about that and give an exception to the locals who cross the border on daily basis?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am not too sure who that question is directed to.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I had directed the question to the Minister of Transport.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Transport? I am not sure that is the relevant ministry. I think Home Affairs is the correct ministry. Who is the Leader of Government Business in this instance? Is there any Minister who has been designated leader today? No? Is there any Minister who would like to answer that question?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Let me thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi for that important question which enables us to understand the composition or architecture of border operations. I am happy that she touched the Ministry of Transport, Ministry of Home Affairs and ZIMRA which are three different ministries. Basically, what we do and again through the wise counsel of His Excellency, Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa, he is advocating for a ports authority and I am sure the Bill will come before the august House where we are going to harmonise the operations of border activities.
Truly speaking, you are right that in terms of set up, to a lay person, you might not understand which one falls under which ministry so I do concur and agree that it is confusing. However, upon the advent of that piece of legislation, you find that it will be under one umbrella which will then superintend over other issues. Mr. President, we construct the infrastructure and we handover to the users and in this particular case, we have Immigration which falls under the Ministry of Home Affairs. So, in terms of the movement and to pardon or give temporary passes per day, that falls under the Home Affairs which is Immigration where they can say the local, we know you and we can give you temporary permits. I am not qualified to stand and assure the House that can be done but I am sure they do facilitate such movements.
In terms of the payments of border entry, yes, we also had that outcry and we said to the malaichas, especially that was where the outcry was coming from, where we had to indulge the border authorities to see if we can also exempt them from some of the trips that she was talking about. I am sure that is something that can continue and we can be amendable to that request but as we speak, in terms of the movement of people, that will then require my colleague Minister to appraise the Senate on the way forward. I want to thank the Hon. Senator for highlighting that.
When it comes to the duties and everything, that falls under the Ministry of Finance. I am sure, if there are any fora, that can be addressed by my colleague Minister.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: I would like to make a few remarks and maybe one question directed to the Minister of Transport.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order! Today is Thursday and in the Senate, it is not a day for remarks but Questions without Notice.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: Thank you. My question to the Minister of Transport, we have just realised that you are already assembling state of the art equipment along the Chirundu Road and also in Chirundu. I just wanted to know when the work is going to start on that main road?
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Let me thank Hon. Sen. Gumpo for the question that is very pertinent. He was speaking in riddles saying we have got state of the art equipment. Yes indeed, we have got a crusher plant along the road, ready to start work on rehabilitating the Harare – Chirundu Road.
Once again, I am happy to advice again that through the listening President, Dr. E.D. Mnangagwa, that after the outcry from this august House and the general populace that Chirundu – Harare was no longer trafficable; he then said the road starts from Beitbridge – Harare and Harare – Chirundu, that is the entire stretch. We are talking of close to 932 km of that stretch. What we are saying is that now we are almost done in terms of percentage, we are close to 80% on the Harare – Beitbridge Road. We are gravitating towards Chirundu. For now, we have assigned the contractors that have been empowered again by the Second Republic so that they take sections of the Harar- Chirundu and that has been done. They are now doing routine maintenance of the road because it was no longer trafficable and waiting for the procurement process that we are completing. We have allocated each contractor plus or minus 67 km to attend to, so they are busy putting up the financing arrangement and you will see us again rehabilitating at a faster pace the Harare-Chirundu Road. We are ear-marking to finish that within 18 to 24 months.
Mr. President Sir, the other stretch of the road, we have opened 435 km as we speak that is the Harare-Beitbridge Road and I am happy that we are not ending there, we are also going to rehabilitate Chirundu-Border Post so that it will mirror Beitbridge Border Post. The same contractor who was working on Beitbridge Border Post is also going to do our Chirundu Border Post whereby we are now going to complete the South-North and the North-South Corridor.
I am also happy that not only those two borders but will also go into Forbes and Nyamapanda Border Posts because it has a direct link with the Chirundu Border Post where we are also finalising the procurement and you see us rehabilitating that Forbes Border Post again. I am happy that the Hon. Member has asked a very important question which then gives us a chance to hear what we are doing pertaining to infrastructure development. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Health and Child Care. In his absence, I do not know who to direct my question to.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: It is a technical ministry; we do not expect people who are not conversant with issues of medicines to answer you competently.
*HON. SEN. MANYAU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We have the inclusive education initiative which is disadvantaging children especially those with intellectual challenges because their parents do not have money to pay for extra lessons which are paid in schools.
We have noted that most school heads are separating children, those with special needs and those who are able-bodied. Some of the children with special needs have been told to go to grade five and with their disability, they may not be able to comprehend. My question then is that as Government, what steps should be taken to protect such children because the Constitution says that every child has a right to education? I actually have names of schools that are doing such things. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Hon. Sen. Manyau for that important question. I think it is common knowledge that extra lessons are illegal if they are paid for. When we grew up, our teachers used to teach us even during the weekends and they never demanded any payment. The same should happen even now, if a child is intellectually slow and they are in need of remedial classes, we encourage our teachers to do that at no cost to that particular child.
If circumstances are such that then teachers and headmasters demand that those children pay monies or those who have not paid are then excluded and taken elsewhere – that is not correct and that is well known. I think what is of concern perhaps is the issue of compliance with regulations.
Therefore, I encourage the Senator to give me that particular institution and the names involved and I want to promise that we will definitely take action against that. We do not want anyone disadvantaged in terms of access to education. Our Ministry stands for access, inclusive, equitable, and quality education. Those pillars have to be operational, so kindly avail that information.
HON. SEN. MANYAU: The schools are Kudzanai Primary School in Highfields, if you go there now, there is no class for children with disabilities. Those children are being mixed with other children and the teacher will not pay particular attention to slow learners and others with disabilities.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour, and Social Welfare. The last farming season, farmers were very reluctant to send their maize to the GMB. I would like the Minster to tell this House what Government has done to encourage our farmers to send their maize to GMB. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is an agricultural question, however, the Hon. Sen. seems to like the Minister of Public Service.
THE MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR, AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Arrangements are in place to make sure that farmers should receive their payment on delivery. However, it should be verified by the responsible minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate, and Rural Resettlement. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Mr. President, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 16 has been disposed of. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE CONVENTION ON NUCLEAR SAFETY
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Mr. President, I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS, Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organizations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Convention on Nuclear Safety was adopted on 17th June, 1994 and was opened for signature on 20th September, 1994;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Convention;
WHEREAS the Convention entered into force on 24th October 1996;
WHEREAS article 30 (3) of the Convention provides that, after its entry into force, the Convention shall open for accession by all States;
AND WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a party to the Convention;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE JOINT PROTOCOL RELATING TO THE APPLICATION OF THE VIENNA CONVENTION AND THE PARIS CONVENTION
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Mr. President, I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS, Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Joint Protocol relating to the Application of the Vienna Convention and the Paris Convention was adopted and opened for signature on 21st September, 1988;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Amendment;
WHEREAS the Joint Protocol entered into force on 27th April, 1992;
WHEREAS Article VI of the Joint Protocol provides for signature, ratification and accession;
AND WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a party to the Joint Protocol;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Mr. President. May the Minister explain what the Vienna Convention is all about and how it is an advantage to us as a country, what does it say and what is included in the Convention?
* HON. SODA: This protocol amends the Vienna Convention on Civil Liability for nuclear damage which I alluded to and highlighted that it was adopted in September. The purpose of the Convention is to ensure that member countries which are in the Conventions – there are some things which might be….
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. KAMBIZI): The question that was asked by Hon. Sen. Muzenda does not relate to the nuclear one. I think that has been passed. We are talking about the Vienna Convention that you spoke of lately.
*HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. We have seven conventions and all of them relate to the same thing – nuclear technology. These are conventions which were done in different times with the same purpose which stipulate that those countries which desire to use nuclear technology cannot do that because it is one protocol. There are different protocols which relate to different circumstances, for instance how nuclear technology is safeguarded, how accidents are dealt with in the event that they happen during the use of nuclear technology – how the accidents are reported and how the offences are dealt with. We have seven protocols – you would understand that when I explain the protocols, they all relate to one thing which is nuclear.
When we ratify such protocols, then it will allow Zimbabwe when we decide to use nuclear technology for electricity for different machines for technology in hospitals, cancer treatment or in breeding of seeds in the agricultural sector, in water harvesting and in different spheres, then we have to ratify these protocols. These protocols were signed at different times but they relate to one thing – to the fact that Zimbabwe should be allowed to use nuclear technology in seed breeding, generation of electricity, treatment of cancer patients and so on.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE PROTOCOL TO AMEND THE VIENNA CONVENTION ON CIVIL LIABILITY FOR NUCLEAR DAMAGE
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Vienna Convention on Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage was adopted and opened for signature on 21st May, 1963 and entered into force on 12th November, 1977;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Convention;
WHEREAS the Convention entered into force on 12th November, 1977;
WHEREAS article XXIV of the Convention provides for accession, by all State Members of the United Nations, or of any of the specialized agencies or of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) not represented at the International Conference on Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage held in Vienna from 29th April to 19th May, 1963 and 31st May, 2023;
WHEREAS Zimbabwe is a member of both, the United Nations and IAEA;
AND WHEREAS Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a party to the Convention;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
Mr. President, you will notice that this protocol is almost similar to the previous convention except that the previous one is now an amendment to the one which was available for signature earlier which is the Convention on Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage and again for the same purpose that Zimbabwe is desirous to adopt the nuclear technologies for safe purposes. I submit that the House considers it and approves it for accession.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE VIENNA CONVENTION ON CIVIL LIABILITY FOR NUCLEAR DAMAGE ADOPTED AND OPENED FOR SIGNATURE
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Vienna Convention on Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage was adopted and opened for signature on 21st May, 1963 and entered into force on 12th November, 1977;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Convention;
WHEREAS the Convention entered into force on 12th November, 1977;
WHEREAS Article XXIV of the Convention provides for accession, by all State Members of the United Nations, or of any of the specialized agencies or of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) not represented at the International Conference on Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage held in Vienna from 29th April to 19th May, 1963 and 31st May, 2023;
WHEREAS Zimbabwe is a member of both, the United Nations and IAEA;
AND WHEREAS Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a party to the Convention;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE AGREEMENT ON THE PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): I move the motion standing in my name;
THAT WHEREAS section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the
International Atomic Energy Agency (Agreement) was made in 1959:
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the
aforesaid Agreement;
WHEREAS Article 38 of the Agreement provides for acceptation;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is a Member of the International Atomic Energy Agency;
AND WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a party to the Agreement;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
This convention will allow Zimbabwe to participate in the use of nuclear technologies for safe purposes. Like I indicated, there are a number of protocols that will be required for Zimbabwe to fully utilise nuclear technologies and this is one of the technologies. I put before this House that the protocol be now approved.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to ask and request that the Minister should explain how the Convention which was signed in 1959 took this long to be brought to this nation so that we work with other nations. Are there any particular reasons why it took this long? Thank you Mr. President Sir.
*MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Thank you Hon. Sen. Tongogara. There is not much that I can say besides saying what is expected by different administrations and Governments change. The expectations evolve. In the past, when people heard about nuclear, they feared that nuclear could be destructive but because of technology and understanding, we now know that this is something which benefits the nation. For example, the provision of electricity, treatment of illnesses, breeding of seeds using nuclear technology. I am just taking it to imply that this is the stage where we are as Zimbabwe and can benefit Zimbabwe developmentally. There is no reason why this was not done in the past but there comes an opportune time to develop our nation. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE AMENDMENT TO THE CONVENTION ON PHYSICAL PROTECTION OF NUCLEAR MATERIAL
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Mr. President Sir, I move the motion standing in my name:
THAT WHEREAS Section 327(2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention: treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
WHEREAS the Amendment to the Convention on Physical Protection of Nuclear Material (Amendment) was adopted on 8th July, 2005;
WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid Amendment;
WHEREAS the Amendment entered into force on 8th May, 2016;
WHEREAS article 18 of the Convention on Physical Protection of Nuclear Material provides for signature, ratification and accession;
AND WHEREAS the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a Party to the Amendment;
NOW, THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327(2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, resolves that the aforesaid Convention be and is hereby approved for accession of this House.
Mr. President Sir, I put before the House the Amendment to the Convention on the physical protection of nuclear material which was adopted on the 8th of July, 2005. This Convention, Mr. President, gives standards by which nuclear material should be kept in any country which is part to the Convention. That is short about this Convention.
We are desirous as the Government of Zimbabwe to become part of this Convention and I therefore put before this House that the Convention be approved. I thank you Mr. President.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RATIFICATION OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF ACTS OF NUCLEAR TERRORISM
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I move the motion standing in my name that this House takes note that;
WHEREAS, Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that any convention, treaty or agreement acceded to, concluded or executed by or under the authority of the President, with one or more foreign states or governments or international organisations shall be subject to approval by Parliament;
AND WHEREAS, the international convention for the suppression of acts of nuclear terrorism entered into force on 7th July, 2007;
AND WHEREAS, the Republic of Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the aforesaid convention;
AND WHEREAS, Article 24 (3) of the convention provides for accession by any State;
AND WHEREAS, the Republic of Zimbabwe is a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency;
AND WHEREAS, the Republic of Zimbabwe is desirous of becoming a part to the convention;
NOW THEREFORE, in terms of Section 327 (2) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, this House resolves that the aforesaid convention be and is hereby approved for accession.
This convention sets conditions for safe use of nuclear materials once we become part to this convention. The reason is that any country or any member State that becomes part to a convention should avoid terrorism or misuse of nuclear materials for terrorism purposes. Now, therefore, the Government of Zimbabwe, being desirous to become part to this convention, I put forward this convention that this House may now approve it. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA), the Senate adjourned at Seven Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 6th June, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 11 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 12 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CRIMINAL LAW (CODIFICATION AND REFORM) AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 15, 2022]
Twelfth Order read: Resumption of Committee: Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Amendment Bill [H. B. 15, 2022.]
House in Committee.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker. My point of order is on a point of clarity and understanding. Madam Speaker, you are the Speaker today and I see you chairing a committee. I do not know whether it is within the Standing Orders which I may not be privy to. Is there such a thing because you are the Deputy Speaker and could be the Chairperson of Committees but does it also say you can chair a Committee if you are the Speaker of the day? I would want you to refer me to any Standing Order that speaks to that.
What we know is that after this process has been done, the Chair then reports to the Speaker. Now that you are chairing and as the Speaker of the day, are you going to report to yourself again? Whoever was chairing has to report to the Speaker on what transpired, so today is a very interesting one as the Speaker is chairing and is going to report to herself as the Speaker. When you are the Chairperson of Committees, your job is to ensure oversight on what is being done. The Board Chairperson cannot be the CEO.
I just want to know so that we do not do things which are not right in terms of the Standing Orders and the Constitution’s point of view. Everybody, the whole world is watching this and if it is not proper, what will they say? So I just need to be referred to the Standing Orders because I have never seen Advocate Hon. Mudenda chairing a committee. Today you are the Speaker, unless the Speaker is back but we saw you being in charge of the House today. All the proceedings you were in charge of. I just need to know, to be clarified and to be pointed to a Standing Order, any constitutional issue that talks to that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. I am the Chairperson of Committees as the Deputy Speaker of Parliament. I am sure, you know that.
HON. T. MLISWA: I have not questioned you being the Chairperson of Committees but where does it say the Chairperson of Committees can also chair a Committee?
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is the Chairperson who…
HON. T. MLISWA: What I needed to know – you are also the Speaker today. Unless you are telling me, you are not the Speaker today. How will it proceed? The real issue is that the Chairperson of Committees reports to the Speaker, are you not conflicted today? - [HON. ZIYAMBI: Huya tikudzidzise, unozonyadzisa pakaungana vanhu] -Ndosaka ndati handisikuziva, ndiratidzei mutemo. Muri kungotaura musina mutemo. Ndati handisikuziva mutemo, ndirakidzei pane mutemo, ndidzidzewo nokuti ini ndinoda kudzidza. Ini ndinoita nharo but hapana mutemo wamuri kundiratidza kuti izvi. Speaker, ndi Hon. Gezi but ndiChairman of Committees, saka vacha reporter kunaani? [HON. TOGAREPI: Kuna Speaker]- Speaker ani? So, she is conflicted because if anything goes wrong muCommittee muno, she has to make a ruling, whether it was wrong or right. After the proceedings here, you go to report to the Speaker, if something is wrong and the Speaker is here, vanoramba. Saka ivo kana vachicheya vangagozvirambira sei zvinhu kana zvisina kufamba mushe? Ndozvandiri kungovhunza.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, we want progress. – [HON. T. MLISWA: But we also need you to refer us to a law. How does the Chairperson reports to herself? That is the point, nokuti kana tanetsana muno umu, zvoinda kuna Speaker uko, Speaker vanogona kuramba] – I will report to the Speaker. – [HON. T. MLISWA: Where is the Speaker, hazviite izvi. The Speaker was you Madam Speaker. Aiwa, where is the Speaker? Ndivo vatanga maproceedings. We want to know, if anything goes wrong, the Speaker can correct things, so will she correct things if she is the Chairperson and she is the Speaker as well? That is my point. Muno umu ndeme mutemo ]- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – [HON. T. MLISWA: The procedure is not right. It must be pointed, the procedure is not right. We are making laws and we must be careful when making laws. Ngatiitei zvemutemo, iwe neni tinonetswa nenyika, vaenda vava kundogadzirisa manje] –
The Hon. Deputy Speaker, Hon. Ziyambi and Hon. Biti consulting each other.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. DR. MAVETERA): When we adjourned yesterday, we were on Clause 2.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): For the purposes of capturing it correctly, I want to read the amendments that I had proposed on Clause 2, (3), so that it starts as follows: ‘Any citizen or permanent resident of Zimbabwe who, within or outside Zimbabwe, intentionally partakes in any meeting, whose object or one of whose objects the accused knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing involves the consideration of or the planning for the implementation or enlargement of sanctions or a trade boycott against Zimbabwe (whether those sanctions or that boycott is untargeted or targets any individual or official, or class of individuals or officials), but whose effects indiscriminately affect the people of Zimbabwe as a whole, or any substantial section thereof, shall be guilty of willfully damaging the sovereignty and national interest of Zimbabwe and liable to…’ then it continues on page 3. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order Hon. Members, may the Hon. Minister be heard in silence. You will be given an opportunity to speak.
Amendment to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
[Disorder in the House].
HON. T. MLISWA: Hapana ashevedzera division. Let us debate.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. DR. MAVETERA): We are going to proceed. Hon. Members on virtual will indicate by typing “YES” or “NO” on their gadgets as the case maybe. We need to find the total number of Hon. Members who have voted. We are also going to be voting in this House. That is what we are going to be doing. Thank you. We will start with Hon. Members in the House and those on virtual platform.
May the Hon. Members on the left side appoint tellers and Hon. Members on the right side appoint tellers. Thank you. -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: May Hon Members on virtual please say “YES” and some will say “NO”. Those that are assenting to the Bill vote “YES” and those that do not want this clause they say “NO”. May you please vote on the virtual platform. Can you please indicate your preference for those on virtual, “YES” and “NO”? May you please go on the chat and indicate “YES” and “NO”. May you please vote online, please say “YES” if you are agreeing to that and “NO” if you are not agreeing. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - Order, order! May we please have results from the Ayes.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What is your point of order?
HON. MADZIMURE: When you get to a point that you purport to have got to, you actually ask for the bells to be rung. That is the starting point. You then identify the tellers and the tellers will come and stand here…
Hon. Muchimwe having tried to enter the House.
– [HON MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Muchimwe! May Hon. Madzimure be heard in silence. Order, order! Hon. Madzimure, please proceed.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Chair, with all due respect, I expect the Clerk and the Minister to advise you in a proper way and also not to betray me. As we were listening to the commotion, they were telling you what to do and how to do it, but I do not have a problem with that. I was simply saying once you get to a point where you want to divide the House, you ask for the bells to be rung. Bells were not rung.
Secondly, you then officially identify the tellers who will do the actual counting and you then ask for the tellers to come and stand here and announce their results, not the Chief Whip from the ruling party telling you how many people from this side. So, without that process not having been followed, it makes any vote null and void. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: We greatly appreciate what you have said Hon. Madzimure. What we are going to do for the purposes of transparency and also making sure that we are accountable as Parliament, we are going to ring the bells again. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- Order, order Hon. Members. We need to be honourable in our doing. The question over which the House will divide is out of Clause 2, and may the bells be rung. That is what we are doing and we start the process again.
[Bells rung]
House divided.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order!
THE HON. CHAIRPERSON (HON. DR. MAVETERA): It is not allowed, you will do your Point of Order after the proceedings.
HON. MLISWA: I just want to say people do not know what is going on. As for me, as an Independent Member, these are party people. I will pack my bags and go. Let history be known that I was not part of this commotion and circus, ever. So, I wish you all the best in signing this Bill.
I am not part of this Bill, and will never be part of this mess that has happened today, it is a waste of taxpayers’ money. No wonder why some of you did not come back, you are useless. No wonder why you were voted out, you did nothing to this Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjection.] –
AYES 99: Hon Chanda G., Hon Chibagu G., Hon. Chiduwa C., Hon. Chikukwa M.R., Hon Chingosho C.P., Hon. Chinotimba J., Hon. Chipato A., Hon. Chiwetu J.Z.; Hon. Chombo M., Hon. Dutiro P., Hon. Dzepasi G., Hon. Dzuma S., Hon. Gandawa M.A., Hon. Gezi T., Hon Gorerino O., Hon. Gumbo J.M., Hon. Gwanetsa. K.K., Hon Kabozo. S., Hon. Kapuya F., Hon. Karikoga T., Hon. Karoro D., Hon. Karumazondo M.T., Hon. Kashambe M.T., Hon. Kashiri C., Hon. Maboyi. R.M., Hon. Madiwa C., Hon. Madziva S., Hon. Makari Z.H., Hon. Makoni R.R., Hon. Mandiwanzira S.C, Hon. Mangwiro J.C., Hon. Marikisi N., Hon Maronge C., Hon. Masango C.P., Hon. Mashonganyika D., Hon. Matangira T.R., Hon. Mataranyika D.M., Hon. Mathe S., Hon. Matsikenyere N., Hon. Mavetera T.A., Hon. Mavima P., Hon. Mawite D., Mguni Hlalani., Hon. Mhlanga J.N., Hon. Mhona F.T., Hon. Mkandla M., Hon. Mkaratigwa E., Hon. Moyo E., Hon. Moyo Priscila., Hon. Moyo T., Hon. Mpame C., Hon. Mpofu M. M., Hon. Mpofu R., Hon. Muchimwe P. T., Hon. Mudyiwa M., Hon. Mukuhlani T., Hon. Mukunyaidze S. E. I., Hon. Munetsi J., Hon. Murambiwa O., Hon. Murire J (Rtd) Col. Dr., Hon. Musakwa E., Hon. Musanhi K. S., Hon. Musikavanhu D. A., Hon. Musiyiwa R., Hon. Muswere J., Hon. Mutambisi C., Hon. Mutomba W., Hon. Ncube E., Hon. Ncube Soul., Hon. Ndlovu M. N., Hon. Nduna D. T., Hon. Nguluvhe A., Hon. Ngwenya S., Hon. Nhambo F., Hon. Nhari V., Hon. Nkani A., Hon. Nkomo M., Hon. Nyabani T., Hon. Nhati R. R., Hon. Nyere C., Hon. Paradza K., Hon. Phuti D., Hon. Raidza M., Hon. Saizi T., Hon. Seremwe B., Hon. Sewera J. N., Hon. Shirichena E., Hon. Shumbamhini H., Hon. Sibanda O., Hon. Simbanegavi Y., Hon. Sithole Josiah., Hon. Soda Z., Hon. Togarepi P., Hon. Matuke L., Hon. Tongofa M., Hon. Tsuura N., Hon. Wadyajena J. M., Hon. Zemura L., Hon. Ziyambi Z., Hon. Zizhou M.
Tellers: Hon. Raidza and Hon. Togarepi
NOES: 17: Hon. Biti L. T., Hon. Chamisa S., Hon. Chibaya A., Hon. Chidakwa J., Hon. Chidziva H., Hon. Chimina L., Hon. Hamauswa S., Hon. Hwende C., Hon. Matewu C., Hon. Mliswa T. P., Hon. Murai E., Hon. Mutseyami C. P., Hon. Sibanda D. P., Hon. Siband L., Hon. Tekeshe D., Hon. Tembo M., Hon. Tobaiwa J.
Teller: Hon. Matewu C.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MAVETERA): Order! I have 99 Ayes and 17 Noes. Therefore, the amendment is accordingly made.
Clause 2 as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 3 put and agreed to.
On Clause 4:
HON. BITI: My proposal on this one is that dangerous drugs are defined in the Act but these dangerous drugs are evolving and new ones are coming every day. As I submitted yesterday, when I went to law school and started practicing, the only dangerous drug which was mentioned in Section 11 of the very dangerous drugs was prepared in hemp, commonly known as mbanje. Now we have cocaine, heroin, and mutoriro.
I think the Minister must be given powers in regulation of increasing the drug so that each time there is a new drug, then we have to amend the Act. By the time we get to Christmas, there will be 40 new drugs. Right now, as I am talking to you, people are smoking diapers, and globes. Give the Minister power to expand the list of drugs in regulation instead of amending the Act each time there is a new drug.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon Chair, I am trying to check…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIR: Order Hon. Minister. We recognise the presence of the Vice President of the Republic of Zimbabwe and also the Minister of Health and Child Care, Hon. Rtd. Gen. Dr. C.D.N Chiwenga. We welcome you, Sir. I am also being advised that he is the current Acting President, therefore, we recognise the President.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I hear what Hon. Biti was saying. If you go to the dangerous drugs Act, there is a schedule there which is published under a Statutory Instrument and the Minister has powers to update that. If there is an emergence of any dangerous drugs, it means you can simply update that schedule without going to the Act. So, if you go to this amendment, it actually indicates a scheduled drug which means the definition of dangerous drugs will include those under the Dangerous Drugs Act, under that schedule which is published under a statutory instrument. So, it is correct as it is.
HON. BITI: We are punishing the user oblivious to the pernicious role that is played by the middleman who is in fact importing drugs from South Africa, Latin America and so forth. I am proposing that there must be a decoupling of the offences so that the actual drug baron who is importing drugs into Zimbabwe gets a heftier penalty than the user who is walking in Mbare, Dotito or Chiendambuya - that one who is bringing drugs from Malawi gets the penalty because those are the people that are killing this country. Let us punish the drug lord as opposed to the user who is working on a few grams for his or her own use.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The amendment was to expand the definition of dangerous drugs. The amendment was not capturing how the offenders are being punished. In other words, what this amendment is seeking is to define and expand the definition of dangerous drugs but we did not touch it in this amendment on the actual crimes and revised them. It would be a completely new amendment which is not part of this clause.
At this stage, we cannot because we then need to go to the Act and look at the Act and then find a place where we need to amend it. It cannot be done under this amendment. I submit Chair.
*HON CHIDZIVA: I do not think that we can proceed without mentioning the actual dangerous drugs which have ripped through our societies. When we go to police stations, they say that Crystal Meth is not defined in the statutes and this is how offenders get away with it. I am proposing that Crystal Meth should be mentioned by name as a dangerous drug.
HON. NDUNA: I want to add my voice on the issue of the dangerous drugs on two issues. We were talking about the offence and we were talking about the penalties since yesterday. This is an opportunity to put in the new strains of these drugs.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: On a point of order. I just want to enquire whether Hon. Biti’s dressing is befitting the dress code that is expected in this House.
Hon. Biti having been dressed in a black polo neck and black overcoat.
Hon. Matangira having been spotted wearing a Zulu head gear
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Matangira, if you are putting on African attire, please put on African attire. May you kindly remove what is on your head. It is not African attire. You cannot be mixing the two. Yes, please let us observe that.
HON. NDUNA: Since yesterday we were talking of the offences and we were also talking of the penalties. The law should provide for self-regulation in times where people have offences that they actually have in their societies. The issue of drugs has seen that self-regulation no longer occurs in particular with the strains that are coming to the fore like the other Hon. Members have spoken about like Crystal Meth and other drugs that are coming into play.
My proposal to the Hon. Minister is that, I am one that advocates for courts to interpret statutes and to give the appropriate penalties. Here is an opportunity to actually propose a big penalty to the courts and also to propose a way that actually increases the number of drugs and strains that occur time after time because the battlefield is fluid and the issue of drugs is mutating all the time. There is need to give the Hon. Minister more space to continue to increase. These would be my submissions from the people of Chegutu West Constituency which has been bedeviled by the scourge of drug abuse.
HON. MADZIMURE: My biggest problem is that we have defined the drugs even though there are some that maybe included either in the Bill or in the Schedule. If we are not dealing with the issue of penalties that will deter the drug dealers that will deter the drug traffickers and manufacturers of the drugs within Zimbabwe’s borders. We will not be doing anything because it will take a very long time for the Minister to come back with any amendment and by the time that happens, a whole generation will have been lost. If we are to proceed, we can do so but without putting a clause with deterrent measures to discourage people from drug dealing and trafficking, it means those people continue to make millions supplying drugs. For anyone outside this House to know that we did process this Bill without the punitive measures, it will not work. The law must protect the people of Zimbabwe.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: My sentiments are that we are all agreeable as Hon. Members in this august House that we cannot just come here to define what a dangerous drug is without putting punitive measures for anyone caught dealing in dangerous drugs. We are saying it is time for the Minister to put in place measures that will be taken if a person is caught with dangerous drugs or dealing and selling dangerous drugs. The law should specify what happens to foreigners or locals caught dealing in dangerous drugs and everyone should know which law that is or how many years that person should go to jail or what will happen to them. If they are foreigners, are they going to be arrested and deported to their countries? All that should be properly laid out. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order and it is arising from the emerging debate pointing to serious gaps that we are realizing from these amendments. Inasmuch as we are at this stage, I propose to the Minister that within our laws something should be done to ensure that we make comprehensive amendments that will cover the issues of drugs and substance abuse in this country. The Hon Members are saying we are going to police stations and the people being arrested are released because there are no laws that are addressing that issue. Therefore, the Hon. Minister should tell us what should happen in the event that these amendments are not comprehensively addressing the issues related to drugs and substance abuse in this country. When I go back to my constituency, the issue of drug abuse is not being addressed by these amendments and that is a miscarriage of justice as we are not doing enough. So, the Minister must address us and give us assurance of what will happen after passing this Bill. We are not addressing the fundamental issues that are affecting the people. It shows we did not do our homework before we came up with these amendments. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, there are two eggs that are involved here; the Dangerous Drugs Act and the Criminal Law Codification and Reform Act. The clause that we are amending pertains to Section 155 of the Criminal Law Codification Reform Act where we are expanding the definition of dangerous drugs. What Hon. Members are speaking to is already covered under the Dangerous Drugs Act administered by the Ministry of Health. The Minister of Health has a list under regulations, Part 5 of the Dangerous Drugs Act, Section 14 (c), which allows the Minister to issue regulations and I can read this so that Members can appreciate. The Dangerous Drugs Act says, “for the purposes of preventing the improper use of dangerous drugs which are defined by the Ministry of Health, the Minister of Health may, by regulation prohibit, control or restrict the cultivation, manufacture, sell, possession or distribution of those drugs and in particular but without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing.” So, it will list everything that has to be prohibited. It gives the Minister powers to list the dangerous drugs and to categorise them in terms of how dangerous they are. I think, what we simply did in this amendment is to indicate that, some of these drugs will be under the schedule that the Ministry of Health will publish under a Statutory Instrument.
So, the law as it is, is flexible so that it does not restrict us to only a few and require us to come to Parliament to amend the Act but rather the Minister, through regulations, can actually add or remove some. So, the amendment that we are proposing is proper as it is but what we are now debating is under the Dangerous Drugs Act and the Minister was given sufficient powers to do all things that we are now debating. In other words, I am saying we have now broadened the definition in the Criminal Code to include even those drugs that are on the schedule, published by the Minister. So, it is broad, it is no longer narrow. I propose that we move all the issues that pertain to the issue of dangerous drugs because currently we have an issue of abuse of drugs.
We also have committees that have been set up by Government to look into our laws. This will now come up with comprehensive amendments; either to the Dangerous Drugs Act or any other laws so that we address that issue but the Criminal Code, the amendment that we are looking at is simply expanding the definition to include all those drugs that will be under the schedule. Any other amendments, I think it is work in progress because we have a committee that is actually looking at the reform of our laws in terms of how we deal with the dangerous drugs. So, Hon. Chair, I submit that we proceed with this clause as it is as it is fairly adequate for the purposes that we intend to do. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Madam Chair. We hear what you say Hon. Minister, but the problem we have is, if someone has been arrested in possession of dangerous drugs, what sentence should be given to them? When they go to court, what sentence should be adequate? Yes, the Minister has listed the dangerous drugs, when one is found in possession of those drugs, what does the law say? The one we are amending, where are we going. We have regulated and gazetted but how is it applied? We have just enacted a law which is inapplicable. My concern is, if one has fallen foul of those drugs, what sentence is open to that person?
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Chair, it seems the Minister has missed our real point. We know he has informed us that there is a schedule in the Ministry of Health, where they have got other drugs there. I presume that most of the drugs are actually those that are used for medicinal purposes but the issue that we are talking about here is that when someone who is peddling the drugs; who is a career for the drugs; who is a trafficker is arrested, what do we fall back on as far as the law is concerned? Here we are talking of the law and I do not think any serious conviction will be got from what the Minister has said. We will not get a conviction out of what he has said.
So, what we are trying to say is what are the deterrent provisions within the law that we must have. This is exactly what the people of Zimbabwe expect us to come up with. They are asking us why do we have people who are being arrested and released and they are continuously doing the business of bringing drugs.
* HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Chair, there are two statutes here, there is Criminal Code. The Ministry of Health deals with the abuse of drugs and they have a law called Dangerous Drugs Act, which talks of the drugs, their sentences and it is graded to come up with the most dangerous drugs. They have the powers to regulate and sentence, what we are discussing here is different. The Ministry has all the powers and they regulate as they see need.
When they realise that the situation no longer requires regulations, they will bring it here in Parliament. If they realise that making people pay fines or imprisonment is no longer deterrent enough and that there may be need to go the Arab way of death sentence, they can propose changes to the law. We cannot take things from the Dangerous Drugs Act and insert them in the Criminal Code. These are two different laws. If we had under debate in this House, the reviewing of the Dangerous Drugs Act and the Minister of Health was standing here, you would then have to ask him why should a person being sentenced under the Dangerous Drugs Act? If that was the case, he could then go to his enabling Act and change it but this is not what we are dealing with. I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: We have heard what was said by the Hon. Minister. We have an old adage that says ‘as you chase away baboons, that is when you discover that some of the maize is now being destroyed by termites.’ When we were dealing with this issue, that is when we noticed that the drugs that have been mentioned by the Minister have not been covered. We understand what he is talking about. Since the issue is important, when we were discussing the issue, we noticed certain gaps which we feel the Minister of Health and his deputy are present can promise this House that go and tell your constituents that by the end of this year or by end of next month, they will have reviewed that schedule. I thank you.
THE TEMPORAY SPEAKER (HON. DR. MAVETERA): Hon. Hamauswa, all that you have said is important but let us stick to the issue under discussion. If you want that to happen, we will discuss it on a different day. I kindly ask that we conclude so that the Minister of Health can deliver his Ministerial Statement.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I want to draw you back to the issue of the crystal meth drug that it can be under the schedule of the Ministry of Health. This could be a problem when it comes to arresting the culprits because why people are arrested and released within no time is because the police officers themselves do not know how dangerous the drug is. If you put it under the Criminal Codification, it will help police officers to know how dangerous this drug is. Even at borders, they will be informed and ensure that everyone who tries to come with it in the country is arrested. There is no need to test that drug, it is dangerous. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, let me repeat what I previously said. The list of dangerous drugs is not in the Criminal Codification Law, but it is contained in the Dangerous Drugs Act. We will leave it in that relevant statute. Today we are debating the Criminal Law (Codification) Law and not the Dangerous Drugs Act. We have just added on to the definition so that when the justice system is looking at the definition of dangerous drugs, they can also refer to those listed by the Ministry of Health and Child Care on the schedule that they publish under a Statutory Instrument.
That is what we are doing. We are not looking at making changes to the list of dangerous drugs by the Ministry of Health and Child Care. That is a separate issue altogether which could require the House to look into if called for. Today we are just looking at the definition. I therefore move that we proceed with that Clause as it is. I thank you.
Clause 4 put and agreed to.
Clause 5 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
STATE OF THE HEALTH SERVICE DELIVERY IN ZIMBABWE
THE ACTING PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. RTD. GENERAL DR. CONSTANTINO G. D. N. CHIWENGA): Madam Speaker and Hon. Members here present today, it is my honour to come and deliver the state of the health service delivery in our country, Zimbabwe.
Madam Speaker and Honourable Members here present, health is central to human happiness, well-being and productivity, making it a key contributor to national economic progress. Zimbabwe’s Health Landscape is anchored around a Governance and Regulatory Framework, which is supported by seven (7) pillars: (1) Pharmaceuticals, (2) Biomedical Equipment, (3) Logistics, (4) Health Workforce, (5) Health Information Systems, (6) Health Financing, and (7) Health Service Delivery Infrastructure.
GOVERNANCE AND REGULATORY FRAMEWORK
The Constitution of Zimbabwe establishes the right to healthcare under Section 76. This is supported by about 20 pieces of legislation administered by my Ministry, the key ones being the Public Health Act, the Medical Services Act, and the Health Services Act. To ensure that they remain fit for purpose as enablers in achieving Vision 2030 objectives, my Ministry is in the process of reviewing some of the pieces of legislation. This includes the Health Services Act, which has recently been amended to provide for the establishment of the Health Service Commission. My Ministry is working with relevant bodies to finalise the establishment and operationalization of the Health Service Commission. My Ministry will also continue to strengthen regulation of medical aid societies to protect members so that they do not have to pay at the point when they consume health services.
To achieve its vision towards attaining the highest level of health and quality of life for the people of Zimbabwe, my Ministry works with and through the following six statutory bodies (parastatals): (1) Health Professions Authority of Zimbabwe; (2) National Pharmaceutical Company (NatPharm); (3) Zimbabwe National Family Planning Council; (4) Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe (MCAZ); (5) National AIDS Council (NAC); (6) Medical Research Council of Zimbabwe.
My Ministry has also made the following two key changes to the structure of the health service system: (1) Operationalisation of the Harare and Bulawayo metropolitan provinces to coordinate and oversee all health sector activities in the two urban provinces. (2) Added the new Division of Bio-Medical Engineering, Bio-Medical Science, Pharmaceuticals, and Bio-Pharmaceutical Production to the structure of the Ministry of Health and Child Care, in line with our new strategic direction.
My Ministry has also amplified the voice of the Community in Health Governance, through the establishment, operationalization and capacitation of Health Centre Committees at every rural health centre. Health Centre Committees include representatives of health workers and representatives of the community in which they operate, as prescribed in the Public Health Act.
PHARMACEUTICALS
Madam Speaker Ma’am and Honourable Members, 96% of health facilities in Zimbabwe surveyed in Quarter 2 of 2022 had at least 80% of essential medicines in stock. This was shown in the Vital Medicines Availability and Health Services Survey (VMAHS), which is conducted every quarter, by an independent agency. The Vital Medicines Availability and Health Services Survey also showed that 88% of health facilities had at least 80% availability of selected antibiotics. Antiretrovirals, antimalarial and anti-TB medicines stocks have remained adequate over the years. To ensure improved availability of commodities, my Ministry continues to lobby Treasury for timely payment towards the capacitation of NatPharm. In addition, NatPharm was recently paid all outstanding debts owed by our health facilities. There is a gap in the funding of medicines as outlined in more detail in the Health Financing section of my address.
Good Stewardship of Medicines
To ensure rational use of the medicines availed to us, my Ministry regularly reviews standard treatment guidelines, and the essential medicines lists used by health workers. With the support of various partners, my Ministry has heavily invested in medicine warehouses and stores. The Medicines Control Authority of Zimbabwe, which is highly regarded as a centre of excellence in the Region, takes the lead in ensuring the quality and safety of medicines available in the country. Electronic Logistics Management Information Systems are being introduced to improve monitoring, and reduce drug expiries, pilferage, and stock-outs at our health facilities.
Local Manufacturing of Pharmaceuticals
There are 13 local pharmaceutical manufacturing companies producing finished products. My Ministry supports Industry through opening channels for cooperation and collaboration with friendly countries. The Government has put in place a comprehensive package of fiscal and non-fiscal incentives to enhance the export of pharmaceuticals. My Ministry also plans to resuscitate the production of simple pharmaceutical preparations such as antiseptics and creams in our hospital pharmacies. Here are a few examples: St Luke’s Hospital in Lupane, has been producing vaco-litres, commonly known as “drips,” while Sally Mugabe and Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals manufacture hand sanitizers for internal use. Matabeleland North Province has conducted some training on small-scale manufacturing. My Ministry will mobilize resources to support these activities.
Madam Speaker, allow me to acknowledge the remarkable contribution made by donors and development partners towards availability of medicines in the Zimbabwe Health system. In a nutshell, Madam Speaker, essential medicines are generally available. The level and range of stocks could certainly be better, and this is set to improve almost immediately, since issues of funding are being addressed, and local production as well as good stewardship of medicines are also being enhanced. Outside the country, medicines will only be procured directly from manufacturers, and not middlemen.
BIOMEDICAL EQUIPMENT
According to the 2022 Vital Medicines Availability and Health Services Survey, 78% of our district hospitals in Zimbabwe have fully functional operating theatres to perform emergency maternity surgery, and 93% have kits for resuscitating the new-born. About 50% of our secondary, tertiary and quaternary level hospitals have functional chemistry and haematology machines in their laboratories.
Medical equipment, like humans has a life span and needs to be replaced every now and then. There will always be need for new equipment, while maintaining and repairing existing equipment. As Ministry we have obtained from our health facilities their top 5 priority needs in terms of equipment, and these have been tendered. Some of the tendered equipment has already been delivered, including a Magnetic Resonance Imaging scan for Parirenyatwa Hospital. Our priority now is to have all outstanding orders delivered, then procure the next set of equipment on the priority list. Many health facilities have benefited from digital X-ray machines, ventilators and laboratory equipment acquired under COVID-19 intervention grants. Solar-powered refrigerators have also been installed in many health facilities, for the storage of vaccines.
Maintenance and Repair of Equipment
My Ministry is making progress on securing service contracts for capital-critical equipment. There are plans to resuscitate the training programme for Biomedical Equipment Technicians, which had been phased out. The broken-down linear accelerator radiotherapy machines at Parirenyatwa and Mpilo central hospitals will soon be repaired, now that funding has been availed. There are plans to procure more radiotherapy machines, and strategically distribute them across the country, to ensure equitable access by all citizens.
My Ministry is working with relevant Ministries, Departments and Agencies to address the current challenge of convoluted procurement processes that have long turn-around times. Procurement of medical equipment, and by this, I mean items for helping the sick, should be treated as an emergency. It is not like procuring any other commodity. Health is a national security issue, simple! With procurement processes smoothened, and the recent pledging by Treasury to avail funds, a massive improvement in the availability of equipment and sundries in our health facilities should be expected shortly.
LOGISTICS
Medicine Storage and Distribution
The Government has established state-of-the-art, world-standard warehousing and transportation facilities for the nation’s medicines. With a target to upgrade storage space for 500 health facilities, 57 were achieved in 2019, and 128 are currently under construction, to be completed in 2023. His Excellency, The President recently commissioned a purpose-built national pharmaceutical mega-warehouse in Harare. A regional warehouse was built in Masvingo, and another one is currently under construction in Mutare. For the distribution of medicines, we have a fleet of 37 well-equipped trucks, with a plan to procure the outstanding 8, to fully meet the need. To date, we have managed to install solar power system to 1080 health facilities, and in 2023 we are targeting 200 health facilities. This power backup helps to ensure safe storage of pharmaceuticals, and continuity of essential health services during power cuts.
Ambulances
My Ministry is committed to using only fully equipped intensive care ambulances to transport patients. So far, we have acquired 61 such ambulances, and another 68 are expected shortly. We will continue to procure until each hospital has the required number. We also plan to have an adequate fleet of well-equipped ambulances patrolling our major highways, and also use air and water ambulance systems where necessary.
Staff Transport
My Ministry has procured 28 buses for distribution to various hospitals throughout the country, to carry health workers to and from work. Procurement will continue until the required 40 buses are availed. The Ministry is also in the process of purchasing motor vehicles for medical officers in the districts.
In short, Madam Speaker, the movement of patients, medicines and health staff, as well as the storage distribution and inventory management of medicines, commodities and equipment in the health sector are in a good state, with remarkable improvements already in the pipeline.
HEALTH WORKFORCE
Madam Speaker, health workforce is an essential ingredient for adequate health service delivery. As at January 2023, the Ministry of Health and Child Care’s establishment was 51 661. Of these posts, 44 789 were occupied, and 6 518 were vacant, giving an overall vacancy rate of 13%. The vacancy rate varies by area of specialty. In January 2023, the vacancy rate was 17% among nurses, 21% among doctors, 25% in laboratory as well as radiography services, and 27% in pharmacy services.
The health sector unfortunately continues to lose critical health workers to other countries. The average attrition rate for health workers is around 5.2% per annum, being higher for nurses (6.6%) and dieticians (14.3%). Consequently, the total number of health workers on Government payroll had declined by 9.2% from 50,100 in 2019 to 45,500 in 2021 due to escalated out-migration. The government, through my Ministry, is implementing some strategies to reduce health worker attrition. These include the following: (a) Scaling up health worker training by increasing the number of training schools and the intake of trainees. This will enable us to meet the projected staff need of 133 128 health workers for Universal Health Coverage. Primary Care Nurse (PCN) training was re-introduced in September 2021. (b) The Ministry continues with efforts to avail transport for health workers to commute to work. (c) Provision of staff accommodation onsite or close to health institutions. (d) Provision of subsidized meals at institutional staff canteens.
Madam Speaker, I am happy to share that, the staffing situation in the health sector is not all bad news. Staffing of specialist doctor positions in most central hospitals has increased. Most specialist posts except Radiology, Pathology and Cardiothoracic Surgery have currently reached near-full establishment. Central hospitals in the Southern region of the country used to struggle to attract and retain specialists, but now Mpilo Central Hospital reports 74% of specialist posts filled, a big increase from 57% in 2021. This has enabled major life-saving procedures to continue being offered.
Community health workers are a critical component of the health delivery system. They were at the frontline of the COVID-19 response in rural Zimbabwe. They also play a big role in detecting and responding to disease outbreaks. Zimbabwe has about 20 000 Village Health Workers (VHW) dotted all over the country. An additional 20 000 are needed to meet the ideal targets of one Village Health Worker for every village. Currently, the programme is threatened by lack of funding for Village Health Workers’ quarterly allowances and for the provision of tools of the trade. Discussions are ongoing between my Ministry, Treasury, and development partners to address this challenge.
In a nutshell, the staffing situation in the health sector is far from desperate, yet also not yet satisfactory. With the strategies I have just outlined, the situation is set to improve even more. I wish to acknowledge all the dedicated healthcare workers in both the public and private health sector, who work tirelessly, often during odd hours, for the delivery of health services to the people of Zimbabwe. Sadly, many have lost their lives while delivering health services to the population of Zimbabwe. May their souls rest in eternal peace.
HEALTH INFORMATION SYSTEMS
My Ministry has established a resilient and robust Health Information System. The Health Surveillance system has facilitated early detection of disease outbreaks and potential events of Public Health concern. This has been through a suite of mechanisms to include standard data flows, where data is generated from the lowest level of the Health System and flows all the way up. Key information is also shared with international partners to facilitate inter-country comparisons and benchmarking. My Ministry is working with the private health sector to enhance their participation in health information reporting. Electronic solutions continue to be optimised to improve health outcomes and facilitate timely decision-making. The Impilo Electronic Health Record (EHR) programme has now been deployed at more than 1 000 health facilities, with a target to reach all health facilities by the end of 2024. The Impilo Electronic Health Record is a game changer; it allows a patient’s complete record to be accessible electronically at whichever hospital they go to, without having to carry any record card with them. The Electronic Health Record also helps health staff to manage a patient better, and faster, with minimal or no paperwork. Partnerships with other Ministries, Departments and Agencies have improved health Information Systems in Zimbabwe as evidenced by increased coverage of the internet, deployment of electronic systems to the health facilities and communities. In addition to the website, my Ministry also publishes Health Matters, a quarterly magazine to share information with the public.
Health research is another way by which new information is obtained, disseminated and used in decision-making. Through research, my Ministry has been able to identify four Neglected Tropical Diseases, as endemic to Zimbabwe, and even identified the appropriate interventions to control them. The four diseases are Trachoma, Bilharzia, Lymphatic filariasis and tapeworms.
HEALTH FINANCING
To make health services affordable and accessible to the population, Government currently offers free health services to citizens aged over 65 years, children under 5 years of age, pregnant women, free blood and blood products, mental health services, COVID-19 vaccination, HIV and TB treatment services. Zimbabwe has chosen to use the primary health care approach, which prioritizes cost-effective health interventions at the lowest level of care. Health financing in Zimbabwe comes from a mixture of domestic and external resources. The significant decline in external donor funding over the last two years has shown that domestic funding through the fiscus is the most sustainable way of funding the health system. Zimbabwe came closest to reaching the Abuja Declaration target of 15% in 2021, where about 14% of the Government budget was allocated to health.
To increase domestic funding for health, Government has come up with innovative financing strategies such as the AIDS Levy, the Health Levy Fund, the Assisted Medical Treatment Order (AMTO), and third-party motor vehicle insurance. Besides the AIDS Levy, the other strategies are not working too well. We strongly believe that if the Health Levy Fund was still available the, unfunded gap of US$210,5 million in the annual requirements of medicines and medical sundries in my Ministry would not be there. In the first few years of the establishment of the Health Levy Fund, the proceeds were ring-fenced for the procurement of medicines, blood and hospital equipment. Sadly, these gains were lost when the Fund was redirected to the Consolidated Revenue Fund. My Ministry is in dialogue with Treasury to have the Health Levy Fund reinstated back to a ring-fenced fund. This would go a long way towards the availability of medicines, equipment and sundries for the health sector. My Ministry is engaging the relevant Ministries, Departments and Agencies to strengthen the mechanisms of collecting resources from 3rd party motor vehicle insurance, optimizing the use of the Assisted Medical Treatment Order, and exploring the introduction of other revenue-raising schemes including, such as sin-taxes, and ring-fence them for the health sector.
Some progress has been made in establishing the National Health Insurance Scheme. A roadmap has been developed, a Ministerial Steering Committee put in place, and a minimum essential health benefits package is currently being developed.
The Ministry of Health and Child Care budget year 2022 was on the lower side as Government cash flows were on the downside, and Treasury was not able to keep up with the Ministry’s budget release expectation. Treasury managed to release funding for clearance of outstanding critical service providers in December 2022. For 2023, Treasury has set up a Budget Implementation Committee that will work with the Ministry of Health and Child Care to come up with procurement strategies to ensure that we get our 2023 budget in full. My Ministry is confident of an improved 2023 financial year in terms of cash flow availability, and this will enable more improvement in health service provision. The Ministry is finalizing the costing of health services, to ensure that a cost recovery model for health service provision is implemented for those patients and clients who are in the paying category.
Health Service Fund
Though faced with cash flow challenges, hospitals were able to continue providing services through use of the Health Services Fund, an authorized retention fund. Collection of the Health Services Fund continues to be low due to the current market challenges that our clients face. The Ministry shall continue to ensure that all patients in the paying category, pay for the services rendered. The government continues to explore sustainable ways of comprehensively supporting the Village Health Worker program.
Madam Speaker and Honourable Members, despite the shrinking flow of external funding, the health sector financing outlook is good. My Ministry, based on the commitment of the Treasury, and other players will use the available funding efficiently, and implement strategies to unlock more domestic funding.
HEALTH SERVICE DELIVERY INFRASTRUCTURE
About 90% of health services in Zimbabwe are accessed through the public health system, with only 10% of the population seeking services in the private sector. Health services in the public sector are delivered at 5 levels: (1) Primary Care, (2) Secondary Care, (3) Tertiary Care, (4) Quaternary Care, and (5) Quinary Care.
The Quinary Hospital is now the highest level of care, recently introduced to spearhead research and development, and to offer super-specialised services, with key linkages to Research institutions, institutions of higher learning, Industry and the Ministry’s new Division of Bio-medical Engineering, Bio-medical Science, Pharmaceuticals, and Bio-pharmaceutical Production. Zimbabwe’s first Quinary Hospital is being established by the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development, and is currently under construction. In the meantime, my Ministry is offering quinary-level services at some of its central hospitals. This includes cardiac catheterisation at United Bulawayo Hospital and open-heart surgery currently being established at Parirenyatwa Hospital.
Hospital Infrastructure
To date, the New Dispensation has made significant progress in the development of health infrastructure, by constructing new health facilities and refurbishing existing ones. Government is in the process of constructing Lupane Provincial Hospital in Matabeleland North Province, and has planned room loading for to be commissioned Joshua MN Nkomo-Ekusileni Hospital in Bulawayo, to upgrade it to a higher-level institution. Progress made in the construction of health facilities from 2018 to date, includes 37 commissioned projects, 72 completed projects, and 55 ongoing projects. Construction of new maternity waiting homes and refurbishment of existing ones is in progress countrywide. This facility is meant to reduce delays in accessing health facilities at the time of delivery. To date, 12 health institutions have had an oxygen reticulation system installed, while another 36 are set to have the installations this year. My Ministry has also installed boreholes at 201 health facilities, and another 400 facilities are targeted this financial year.
SERVICE DELIVERY PERFORMANCE RESULTS
Patient satisfaction objectively assessed across all central hospitals scored an average of 77%. Despite missing the set target of 83%, the attainment of 77% satisfaction levels indicates that service delivery is still at acceptable levels, though of course there is room for improvement. Hospitals do their best to address issues raised by patients and clients in these surveys. There is a deliberate process to institutionalize quality assurance and improvement programs in all health facilities.
A recent assessment shows that Central hospitals have managed to provide 65% of services from a basket of expected Quaternary level health care services. Here are a few other successes achieved at our hospitals: (a) Medical specialists have been deployed to provinces, and most provincial hospitals now have a full complement of specialists. (b) Chitungwiza Central Hospital conducted its first neurosurgical operation in February 2023, and its first total hip replacement in March 2023. (c) Some hospitals have opened state-of-the-art private wards through public-private partnerships.
Maternal mortality ratio has decreased by 15% from 425 deaths per 100 000 live births in 2019, to 363 deaths per 100 000 live births in 2022 according to the Zimbabwe Population Census report. However, more still needs to be done to meet Sustainable Development Goals and Vision 2030 targets.
Family Planning
Modern Contraceptive Prevalence rate remained high at around 68% in 2021 and 2022, showing adequate family planning service provision. The government has procured contraceptives worth USD 1.5 million using domestic resources.
Cervical Cancer Screening
The number of women screened for cervical cancer is increasing each year. A total of 255, 577 women were screened throughout the country and the treatment rate for those who were positive was 88%.
Immunisation Programme
Madam Speaker and Honourable Members, my Ministry achieved and maintains high coverage of routine immunization against vaccine-preventable diseases among our children. In 2022, about 80% of children under 1 year of age were vaccinated with the third dose of Pentavalent vaccine, an increase from 76% achieved in 2021. For Measles and Rubella first dose, 77% of children were vaccinated in 2022, an increase from 68% achieved in 2021. Zimbabwe has conducted immunization campaigns to prevent outbreaks of diseases such as Poliomyelitis from neighbouring countries.
COVID-19 Response
Zimbabwe is known for one of the most successful COVID-19 responses on the African continent. As of 29 May this year, a total of 7 321 153 (65.1%) persons had been vaccinated with the first dose, 5 481 518 (48.8%) with the second dose and 2 117 881 (18.8%) with the third dose. By 29 May 2023, Zimbabwe had reported 265 051 COVID-19 cases and 5 695 deaths, achieving a case-fatality rate of 2.1%, one of the lowest in the Region. To better coordinate its COVID-19 response, my Ministry established a vibrant National Public Health Emergency Operation Centre in Harare. The establishment of such centres at subnational levels is already under way. Mr Speaker Sir, the World Health Organisation has declared that COVID-19 is no longer a Public Health Emergency. However, the Ministry will remain vigilant and take precautionary measures to avoid recurrence.
Cholera
As of 29 May this year, Zimbabwe’s cumulative suspected cholera cases stood at 1 711 with 1 581 recoveries and 11 deaths. The case fatality rate (CFR) was 0.66%. Despite the increase in reported cases in Zimbabwe, the case fatality rate is still low. All the ten provinces have now reported cholera suspected cases.
Zimbabwe managed to contain the scabies outbreak in Mashonaland Central Province, and the anthrax outbreak in Hurungwe District, Mashonaland West Province.
HIV
Zimbabwe is one of the countries in East and Southern Africa, with a 50% reduction in AIDS-related deaths since 2010. Having met the 90-90-90 targets, we are on track in achieving the UNAIDS 95-95-95 targets for all ages. We currently estimate that 93% percent of persons living with HIV know their status, 98 % of those who know their status are on life-saving antiretroviral therapy and 96 % of those on antiretroviral therapy are virally suppressed.
The national malaria incidence declined by 70%, from 32 per 1000 population in 2020, to 9 per 1000 population in 2022. Malaria deaths declined by 66.7% from 400 in 2020 to 133 in 2021. Zimbabwe also continues to push the malaria elimination agenda. This saw the number of elimination districts increase from 29 in 2021 to 31 in 2022. Five districts reported zero local malaria cases in 2022. These are; Chirumhanzu, Zvishavane (Midlands), Umguza, Nkayi (Matabeleland North) and Umzingwane (Matabeleland South).
Tuberculosis
TB incidence fell by an estimated 21% from 2015 to 2021. The World Health Organization removed Zimbabwe from the list of 30 high TB burden countries to recognize its success in reducing the burden of TB disease in recent years.
Laboratory Services
The Government established genomic sequencing facilities in the country, currently being used for identifying COVID-19 variants. Zimbabwe also adopted the World Health Organization recommended self-testing strategy for COVID-19 to decentralise testing at community level.
Traditional Medicine
The Second Republic has made strides in integrating modern with traditional medicine. Through partnership with the Chinese Government, Zimbabwe established a Chinese Traditional Clinic at Parirenyatwa Hospital in 2021. In 2022, the clinic treated over 6,000 patients. Efforts are underway to open another clinic in the Southern region of the country.
In conclusion Madam Speaker, I have demonstrated the sustainable availability of those critical inputs that are essential for health service delivery. These include (1) the health personnel to provide the services, (2) the medicines and other consumables, (3) biomedical equipment, (4) the transport, storage and other logistic facilities, (5) the health information systems, (6) the funding, (7) the health service infrastructure. These are supported by the enabling environment of a solid governance and legal framework. I have described impressive results or health outcomes, the fruits from processing the inputs invested in the health sector. Our health delivery system is thriving. With the efforts being made to invest more resources, the results can only improve from good to great.
Finally, Madam Speaker, I wish to acknowledge the remarkable financial, technical and material contribution that donors and development partners make towards enhancing health service delivery in Zimbabwe. I also recognize the contribution of fellow healthcare workers, Ministries Departments and Agencies, the UN family, the Private Sector, and the entire citizenry towards health service delivery in the country. Let me end with a reminder that though my Ministry is directly responsible for health service delivery in Zimbabwe, most of the determinants of health lie in other domains, outside my Ministry. Let us, therefore, unite and work together in a Whole-of-Government and Whole-of-Society approach to meet our vision of the highest level of health and quality of life for the people of Zimbabwe.
Iwe neni tine basa! Nyika inovakwa nevene vayo! I thank you!
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, the Acting President and Minister of Health and Child Care for giving us a Ministerial Statement. I now call upon Hon. Members to ask questions of clarification.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Acting President and Minister of Health and Child Care. Firstly, I want to thank you for the ambulance which you donated to my constituency. We had no ambulance at all and this donation came at the right time. On behalf of the people of Buhera South, I want to thank you for that.
Secondly, you addressed us on the issue of nurses that are leaving this country for greener pastures. The social media has gone into overdrive regarding the issue of nurses. May you clarify further on the issue of nurses that are leaving the country?
HON. CHINYANGANYA: I want to thank the Acting President and Minister of Health for his presentation on the state of the health delivery system in Zimbabwe at the moment. My point of clarification stems from the air ambulances that were recently purchased by the Government of Zimbabwe to service sick people. My question is, was that planned and really necessary, considering the state of our hospitals and also the shortage of medicines in the hospitals?
I will give an example of Kadoma General Hospital; it does not have autoclave machines, it does not have heavy duty BP machines, it does not have heavy duty laundry machines but the Ministry acquired air ambulances worth millions of dollars which are not used time and again. As such, was that really necessary, considering the priorities that are there currently that need a lot of funding and that will help patients on a daily basis. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: I have clarifications and proposals. I want to thank the Acting President for a resounding, well rounded, elaborate, resilient, effective and efficient statement. The first issue that I want to applaud him on is the issue of third-party insurance that has been taken to alleviate the plight of the road traffic accident victims. I ask therefore that this be accompanied by law.
I remember this came about in the 2022 National Budget proposals and discussions that we held in Victoria Falls and today I am happy and proud that we have this coming to fruition because third party insurance in its current nature and circumstance, has no particular benefit to the motorist that it is intended to help. I am also happy that I also see Dr. Dhobhi in this House. What happened to me in a road traffic accident, I do not wish any other man to go into such circumstance where I lost two of my kids because there were no ambulances, there was no proximity to a healthcare institution.
I therefore propose that further to this, the Acting President should actually ask the rural district councils and councils to provide land close to the highways so that there can be infrastructure development close to healthcare infrastructure development. This is called the accident victims stabilisation centres, so that we do not needlessly lose lives in the golden hour after the accident because 70% of our people are losing lives because of that. I say this Hon. Speaker Ma’am because in Chegutu, we have established, through the help of the military, an accident victim stabilisation centre which we will ask the Acting President one day to come and officially commission through community involvement. We had workers from the military and the community was bringing in the bricks. It is my hope that if land can be availed, we can have accident victims stabilisation centres.
The third issue, I also propose that there is an animal called passenger insurance which is $15 per seat for public service vehicles. I request that it also be handed over to the Minister of Health for the establishment of a robust and resilient healthcare delivery system in particular for those that are involved in RTA. The present circumstances where a bus rolls and people die; there is no help from the passenger insurance which is supposed to give US$4000 to the bereaved and US$2000 to those that are injured for their medical expenses.
The last issue deals with cholera. The Acting President touched on the issue of cholera. How do I propose in particular where I come from, to reduce the scourge of cholera and typhoid which are both medieval diseases? They come about because of the deficiency of clean potable drinking water. Where I come from, there are clarifiers and sediments which are supposed to take care of 4000 people whereas there are now 7000 people. It is my prayer and humble submission that if we then can have monies channelled towards the expansion of water treatment plants in all local authorities, we can definitely reduce the scourge. We have just received US$1.9 million from the Minister of Finance but if this is increased to US$20 million coming from passenger insurance and all other places, it can help us.
Those are my comprehensive proposals. It would be nice to hear what the other people have to say. We do not want questions but we want robust proposals.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me start by thanking the Hon. Acting President for his Ministerial Statement. I want clarification on the issue of medication. I know that you are a busy man and because you do not visit every hospital, they lie to you that there are medicines in hospitals. The truth is there is nothing called medicine in the hospitals. I am pleading with you to please find medicines for the hospitals. I also request if you are able to also supply hospitals with medicines for rabies. People who are bitten and infected with rabies are actually dying because there is no rabies medication in the hospitals and they cannot afford the prescription from pharmacies. Could you also equip the general hospitals with working X-rays and scanners? We are inundated with requests in our constituencies to assist with payments for scans and x-rays. We request that these be availed so that people can use without paying.
On prostate cancer, I am not sure how you are going to assist men, can this gland not be removed because men are suffering from prostate cancer? What special effect does it have on the life of a man? Can it be removed at birth so that men do not suffer the way they are doing? I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I also want to thank the Acting President for his Ministerial Statement. I also want to get some clarification on some of the health issues prevailing in this country. From his statement, I did not hear plans on primary healthcare pertaining to mental health. In district hospitals, there are no mental healthcare facilities within the primary healthcare level. This is very disturbing in view of the upsurge in drug related mental illness. What are Government’s plans to assist those affected at primary healthcare level?
I want to applaud the establishment of the Chinese traditional health system at Parirenyatwa. Are there any plans to align that system with our own traditional medicines, looking at protecting our own medicines? We have medicines like mubvamaropa which were used to treat ring worms. Is there anything being done to assist the locals to enhance knowledge of our traditional medicines as well as protecting our citizens from herbal medicines coming from other countries which are flooding our streets. They are not being controlled by the Ministry of Health. We can see a lot of WhatsApp groups where people are being duped and told how the herbs can cure anything and most people rush to buy those medicines. What can be done to protect our citizens? Some of the medicines are being used in sexual health as sexual enhancement drugs. They can however cause health problems since they are being administered without control.
Lastly, we heard that you are working with other ministries but we did not hear about private players - called public - private partnership. Has anything been done to establish partnerships with private players so that it is easy for private players to also establish their own hospitals so as to assist Government?
We have diasporans who would want to invest in hospitals and some want to donate. We heard that there is 50% coverage of critical areas but can those gaps not be filled by our own people outside. Are there any plans for such partnership to happen without any hindrance because at times we hear some people saying their donations of ambulances have been rejected? Is there a way that people are assured of donating freely without any impediments? I thank you.
+HON. O. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question to the Acting President who is also the Minister of Health and Child Care is, I want to find out what it is that is being done where we get to hospitals and it is discovered there are so many cars that have broken down or even other equipment that can be used for medical purposes? What measures are being taken so that such vehicles and machines that are not working can be taken for auction so that the money can be used in those same hospitals?
I would also want to know what measures are being taken, especially in maternity wings because in rural areas there are so many women who are dying while giving birth. What measures are being taken at such places? I thank you.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I have got three points of clarification. I would like to thank the Acting President for his comprehensive statement but I have got three items that I need to get clarity on. The first one; in your statement you said that the vision is for equitable health access for all, but if you look at the current state of our health system, there is no universal health insurance that covers everyone equitably. Here, I am talking about the rich and the poor.
Currently, just to give you an example, I had a constituent who was recently diagnosed with colon cancer at the first stage. Our referral provincial hospital, Marondera, referred that person to doctors in the Baines Avenue and the cost of removing a very small tumor at the first stage is USD12 000. How do we, as a country, then ensure that everyone who needs access to equitable health care is attended to because surely this cannot be equal? How are we going to make sure that everybody, whether rich or poor has equitable access to health care?
Number two, you also said that and you gave an example of the anti-malaria drug. You said that the essential medicines are readily available. I will give you an example again of Marondera Provincial Hospital. It has no paracetamol; it has no bandages and I am talking about the emergency services. If someone is involved in a road accident and they go there, they are asked to buy their own bandages. If you ask for any pain killers, they will ask you to go to the pharmacy to buy those things. I am not sure what we are doing to ensure that these essential medicines that you are talking about are actually accessed by everyone.
Then the last one, you talked about health worker attrition and you mentioned that there is a 9% gap in staffing levels which reduced from 50 000 to 45 000. You went on to talk about measures that you think can actually alleviate the situation in terms of our health staff who are leaving this country to go and find greener pastures. With all due respect Acting President, the measures that you talked about which include having more training schools, increasing the intake, do not address the fundamental issue that most of these health professionals are leaving for…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matewu, please ask your question.
HON. MATEWU: That is what I am doing now. With all respect, Acting President, intake of more trainees and more training centres do not address the fundamental cause. People are leaving this country because they are paid peanuts. The nurses are paid peanuts, the doctors are paid peanuts. That is why they are leaving this country. It is not because we do not have enough training schools and it is not because we are not recruiting more people. So, let us address the issue of remuneration for our health professionals. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Enda kuBritain undoita zvechi gay.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, can you withdraw your statement that he should go to Britain and be someone who is gay. Can you withdraw that Hon. Chinotimba.
HON. CHINOTIMBA: I withdraw. -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon. Member sitting next to Hon. Mutseyami, if you continue doing that, I will not hesitate to send you out.
HON. MOKONE: Thank you so much Madam Speaker. I just have a few issues of clarity. I want to understand from the Minister; we have seen an outbreak of cholera cases, especially in Matabeleland South where I come from. From your Ministerial Statement, I did not hear the measures that you are putting in place to mitigate the spread of cholera cases. You also spoke about machines being there in hospitals. These days there is an issue of power, so I would like to know what measures you are putting in place to make sure that the X-ray and scanning machines are working.
The other issue is - what measures are you coming up with to ensure that mobile clinics are there in remote areas like Matabeleland South where I come from Lastly, I would like to understand from you when you are finishing the refurbishment of Manama Hospital whose roof was blown away by the winds in 2021. As I am speaking right now, they are using a makeshift maternity wing. Thank you.
- THE ACTING PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. GEN. RTD. DR. C. G. D. N. CHIWENGA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me respond to the questions or points of clarification raised by Hon. Members. Hon. Chinotimba wanted to find out why the nurses are leaving or professionals are leaving and what measures we are taking. First and foremost, we should all understand that whilst it is a right of any citizen to go wherever they want but when you are trained by tax payers’ money you owe those tax payers. It is not the intention of Government to enforce the law that will make every citizen stuck for that minimum contract to repay that money which the Government would have used in his or her training, but we expect that when one citizen is trained by Government using the tax payers’ money and they also take an oath, they are not forced; it is not a compulsory thing that a person should go and do A, B, C. You go on your own volition and we also say like in the case of nurses or doctors, they have got oaths that they take. Those are sufficient.
- The issue of Nightingale, the person who started nursing, that is well known, however measures we are taking are firstly; we do not address only the financial aspect, we also address the condition of service and the condition of services are much better than the cash that you will earn. Those two should be combined.
- Here in Zimbabwe, if we are saying let us build our nation, it means we have to work hard. We have to come together and work together as a nation with the aim of building our country. That is what is wanted. Are we together on that particular issue? We work together with one vision, one objective towards uplifting our economy. That way, everyone is addressed.
- Madam Speaker, there was another question on why we train nurses and doctors. We have plans of opening more nursing schools and to continue training more nurses. We will send more doctors to train in Government hospitals until we are satisfied that all the hospitals in the country have adequate health personnel. I once visited a certain country – [AN HON. MEMBER: They will continue to leave for greener pastures.] -They will go until they have filled up all the vacancies required there and they will come back. What I am trying to say is that we will not stop training. Right now, we are working with mission hospitals. We are actually building new hospitals as we speak. We should understand that you do not plant maize and harvest on the same day. That is not possible. There is no such thing in life. You have to go through it procedurally. There is the germination process. That is what happens when we are building the country. It is not done in a day. If that was possible, a baby could be conceived and born on the same day. That does not exist. There is no such country.
- I attended the World Health Assembly Conference in Geneva, and also in February I attended another conference on patient safety. We engaged the World Health Organisation and other development partners and we mentioned that it costs Zimbabwe US$35 000 to train a single nurse each year they are in training and the training is for three years. To train a doctor costs the country US$72 000 each year and their training is for seven years, but we have a situation where those countries that can afford to train their health personnel prefer coming to take our trained health workers rather than training their own. We are a developing country; we cannot be compared to developed countries. Those in developed countries are in a better position than us. We cannot be compared to them. It is actually murder to say you take from the poor. That is why we were red listed to say no-one is no longer able to recruit health workers from Zimbabwe. It was because we cried out that we no longer needed recruitment from this country. We demonstrated and we actually gave them 70 years for recruiting medical personnel to the United Kingdom. Those children are being ill treated in England and they are ashamed to come back.
- We are done with that part and I will move on to Hon. Chinyanganya.
- You have talked about air ambulances but in the health sector, we have what we call the golden hour. If a patient and I was here when I was making again another statement on the Nyanga Bus Disaster, had we not taken those children to hospital within one hour, we could have lost many. When I said we are going to mobilise everything from vehicles, aircrafts and from boats at Kariba to take the communities around, we will do it because once you lose life, you lose it for good.
- You cannot resurrect somebody when somebody is dead, that is the end of it. I would expect Hon. Members to support the Government and say every life matters in this country. The question of saying was this done, no, we are doing everything. If I had come and showed you the equipment we are installing now, we could be talking until the following day. When we say we are installing and we have bought the equipment. Madam Speaker, I will invite the Hon. Members to go to the National Pharmaceutical Company of Zimbabwe. It is not very far away; it is at Sally Mugabe Hospital and you can see the medicines which we have stocked, medicines daily going to hospitals. –[AN HON. MEMBER: Tinoenda rinhi?]- Even tomorrow, the Deputy Minister will take you there for those who would want to go.
- Let us not confuse issues of inefficiency at a particular area or any issues of some who will just neglect. We still have that and that is the kind of the systems that we have. We understand there is a shortage but other shortages are not necessary because on each provincial hospital, they have a pharmaceutical officer who must work with the District Medical Officer to say the clinic is running out of paracetamol or any kind of stop pain drug, can we have some? We are now left with 10% or 15%. Each institution knows what diseases affect their community.
- So, they must know that once the drug level has dropped, it means we must order some more and you go and order. Things will not just be shoveled and be passed. We are not saying we did not have shortages. We are not saying we have got bottomless pits of money. We also had our problems with funding in the country. Remember we are still under embargo and every cent being used in Zimbabwe; we are creating it ourselves. We are not going anywhere but we are creating it on our own.
- I want to thank Hon. Nduna on what you were proposing but third-party insurance which I have talked about and all other seen taxes, these are issues we are discussing with the Ministry of Finance. When Treasury looks at the whole cake and the challenges the country will be facing, they want to address the water situation which Hon. Nduna was talking about but there are also medicines required. They want to address the sewer reticulation systems. Some of these things which we are now talking about in here have been destroyed willy-nilly by our towns or City Fathers and they have not been collecting their rates and building and repairing.
- The Government is now using devolution funds to go and do what the City Fathers in a particular town or metropolitan city are supposed to do, but because we are people sensitive, we end up saying these are our people and they cannot suffer. Let us go and have them but there are people who have been elected there to look after them, where they put the money, it is everybody’s guess. The issue of the District Council providing, I think the last time I claimed land for constructing the stabilisation of accident victims, it is a well thought out idea but what we are saying is if a person has been critically wounded, you have to take that person to the right hospital. Otherwise, you are going to lose that person.
- This is why we are trying to put intensive care ambulances at tollgates so that when there is an accident on a highway, they quickly rush there and, in that ambulance, people’s lives will be served. They will also determine what type of an ambulance – does the person require to be air-lifted or can be driven in an ambulance or can be dropped at the nearest stabilisation centre. These will then have to be determined that way, but that is a good idea.
- The issue of expanding the water treatment plants, this is a matter we are discussing with the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Development because the aspect of water falls in that Ministry. We are concerned that, whether it is dam or it is coming from the borehole, is it clean? We are all aware what happened while we are now cleaning our towns because of that cholera outbreak in Budiriro in 2018. It was because that borehole had been sunk near a sewer pipe and that is what caused that disaster. This is why we test and in the Ministry of Health, we have got a department which tests water. So, we are now saying let us help every establishment in the country to have clean water and have proper sewer reticulation so that our people are safe from these other diseases like cholera and typhoid.
- Tekeshe, you were talking on the issue of rabies vaccine. It is a pertinent issue. We would not want people to die of rabies. If there is an emergency – some in this House have told me to say there is a problem in Area A or B and this is something we respond to rapidly and that can be solved.
- On the issue of scan equipment, we might buy the equipment but all machines have a life span just like people, we grow old and become weak for various reasons. This is why we come to this Parliament to ask for additional budget. Despite the fact that resources are scarce, we are working together as one with Finance as I speak right now as Minister of Health. I want to assure you that these problems will be attended to.
On Hon. Shakespear Hamauswa, the issue that you raised of mental health, the main cause is this drug and substance abuse. We are addressing this issue and Cabinet has already sat and put together an inter-ministerial and an all Government and societal approach team to this menace. When you follow through social media, you will see what is actually taking place. This is being led by the Hon. Minister of Defence, Hon. Muchinguri. We are putting together everybody, including churches and the team will be in place soon. It will involve from kraal heads, headmen, everybody who matters in the country so that we deal with the menace of drugs once and for all. At the same time, we are looking into the laws to punish peddlers, traffickers and users of drugs right up to where they are manufactured or at the centre of distribution because if we do not unite on this matter and work together, we will destroy a complete generation. We will see the consequences both of us – [HON. MEMBERS: hear, hear.] – We must work together and deal with this menace.
On mental health centres, we are going to be rehabilitating centres if it means building new ones, we are going to be building new ones. If it means building new ones, we are going to build new ones. We have got to separate mental cases properly that is mental illness caused by drug abuse or the normal cases that we are aware of. People who have been affected by drugs and you have convinced them to stop using drugs, they need psycho-treatment. All these issues are now being looked into and we will be advising you on the progress we will be making on that issue.
On traditional medicines, we have a council and the council is working very well. I was supposed to be meeting all councils this week for the first quarter meetings and one of those is this one, the traditional medicines. We are sending them to China; it is not only China, we are doing traditional medicines with CUBA, India, Iran and Egypt and so we want to bring and here we have got own traditional medicines which we must develop so that we own our own drugs. We must not forget the disaster we were faced with when we were attacked by COVID-19. Boarders were closed, air transport was closed, shipping lines were closed and we could not receive anything.
From that, we learnt lessons and we must be self-sufficient. Yes, there is no country which can be 100% self-reliant but we must be able to have enough drugs to save our people.
On the capacitation of the diaspora. Madam Speaker, Hon. Members, you might be now aware that whenever Government Ministers and officials go outside the country, we meet with our diaspora. These are our people regardless of their political affiliation; we meet with them. Just now I met people on virtual about 1000 when I was in Geneva. We toured some places and one of them is the medical facilities where we are encouraging that not only should they send drugs and equipment but they must also come and build tourism hospitals. They must come and invest in the health sector besides other sectors. We have established a desk at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, each Embassy has now been instructed and this is exactly what they are doing.
You will be able to see some of the very fruitful projects that are being done by the diaspora. They are already building, pumping into the economy and all we need is to encourage them because these are our people so that they are not being left behind.
Hon. Omega Sibanda on equipment. On the donated equipment; when equipped has depreciated beyond use, it must be disposed of and this is why we have put the Peg Act to make sure that such equipment is removed because it becomes an expense. When that equipment which is not usable remains on the books, the books will be showing that there is that equipment when it is not working. So, the earlier it is disposed of, the better. On the health posts, we are now creating state of the art health posts, very simply where we are taking containers, everything is there and there is a compartment for emergency use by our mothers in the rural areas or in any part of the country but we expect that our people are taught to go to hospitals, never to deliver at home. In those health posts, we are going to put a facility where women can be assisted.
Hon. Matewu, you spoke at length on the issue of cancer. This is what we have highlighted and this is where Government is putting the money. We have given first priority on all the equipment that we need to distribute to every province like radiotherapy equipment, and we are going to continue. It is difficult. I understand what you are talking about treating cancer. Cancer is a killer. Whilst it is not a communicable disease, it is a killer. It is now on the rise because of our lifestyles.
Now we are getting children with cancer, I wish I had brought my phone with me. We are removing tumours from children. I think you have been watching; Mpilo and Parirenyatwa Hospitals have managed to removed huge chunks of tumours, mwana anongozvarwa ziso rakadai, yet that type of cancer only must affect people of 70 or 80 years but it is now affecting babies and children below the age of 10. This is the research we were talking about and we have advised our institutions of higher and tertiary education to look into the matter.
At the same time, we are also saying we need to give priority to this but for those who are now grown up; from the age of 35 years, annually, if you can or every six months, just have a blood test. Then we determine if there is that parasite, chinenge chavekutaridza kuti you are likely to have cancer then we attack it. This is why out of those women who were tested, we had a success rate of 88% because if it is detected in the early stages, cancer can be treated – it is not sentencing somebody to death but when it has spread, we are now saying we will try to save you as much as we can. We are working with other countries now to help even those in levels three and four; that is the drug that we trying to import for user trial and that is what we want for trials. This is a process by the Medical Control Authority of Zimbabwe, they have protocols that they must follow in terms of the law.
I had already answered Hon. Matewu on the question of the migration of nurses. It is not about poor remuneration. It is about a number of factors but today, I think let us concentrate on the issue that it is not only remuneration but it is a number of factors, that is, conditions of service which we are addressing, and we will continue. I was discussing with the Director General of the World Health Organisation, Dr. Tedros. He said, ‘look, I also suffered this problem in Ethiopia’ and I said, ‘what did you do?’ He said, ‘I ended up ordering all universities to train and was training three thousand doctors in one year and now they can no longer be taken because they have saturated the places.’ Finish, zvapera. So, we are going to do that. Tichavatirena, asi munodzoka kumusha, kuna mai hakunzi, mukawona tsoka yangu ndadzoka muyidimbure. Aaah tinoiwonaka saka todimbura here? Vana ndevedu – vanokanganisika, handiti? Mupfungwa nemundangariro.
Hon. Mokone, you spoke about measures to address Cholera. When Cholera outbreak happened in Chegutu, we informed the entire country. We activated our Disaster Management Committees and as I am talking, both the Disaster Management Committees and Treasury are ready. We have set the resources aside; this is why we are able to control. You will not like it if you look at the statistics of Malawi, they suffered because of Cyclone Freddy; and South Africa and Mozambique were also not spared. Some of our people now, and this is why we say that we need to always be with the people and continuously educate them. This is because they will think it is just diarrhoea, it will stop. Ombonotora magwenzi ombodya, ozowona kuti aaah, zvinhu pano hazvina kumira mushe. So, we want our people to be treated nekukasira.
Broken down equipment - yes, I have already spoken on that Honourable. It is being repaired and some of it, we are going to be disposing. Manama Mission Hospital yes, we are very aware. It is a mission hospital but they looked after us during the times when medicines, hospitals or health facilities could not be availed in the rural areas. Mission hospitals served our people, that is why the Ministry had to send the Deputy Minister to Manama Mission Hospital. Now we have put the money together and requested the Ministry of Defence and War Veterans to assist. It is my hope that the Mission Hospital will be repaired quickly to usable state. I want to thank you again for raising that issue.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Hon. Members, I think those were the issues that were raised. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Acting President. Order, order Hon. Raidza! Any further questions of clarifications?
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question to the Acting President is, we always see PSMAS Medical Aid Society closing yet we will be paying our subscriptions. I need clarification on that. Secondly, the Acting President has talked about training centers around the country but are they going to be in provinces or districts? I thank you.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have got about four clarifications. The first one relates to specialized equipment which is used to diagnose problems associated with the back. Some call it MRI. It costs not less than USD200 for anyone to go through the process of being diagnosed of a certain disease. When you go to operations like back operations, it now costs not less than USD4 thousand. It affects a lot of people who are now from the age of 60 going above. If we look at Government employees and pensioners, they cannot afford private hospital fees for that particular problem. What is the Ministry doing to ensure that public hospitals have specialized machines that can perform those functions?
The other problem Madam Speaker is on council clinics that were taken over by Government. The situation in those clinics are getting worse by the day. Also, council clinics are now losing staff faster than what used to happen before Government took over. Can the Hon. Vice President explain what could have gone wrong?
On the issue of staff Madam Speaker, only a years ago, we were asking the Ministry to unfreeze medical positions such as nurses. However, a year later, we now have a problem where we already, from the Vice President’s position, have more than 25% shortage of the health sector staff. Does the Hon. Vice President feel that the measures they have put in place like free canteens and free transport going to help retain staff and encourage more people to be trained? Also, the issue of the decline in the health workers’ salaries caused by the rate that is continuously going down, is this going to encourage people to train? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
*HON. TSUURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me thank the Minister of Health and Child Care and the Acting President of Zimbabwe. I need clarification on the issue of the village health workers around the country. What is Government policy regarding payment of their salaries so that they are able to conduct their duties as well as get resources to enable them provide the hospitals with the required statistics? I thank you.
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF ZIMBABWE AND VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. GEN. RTD. DR. C. G. D. N. CHIWENGA): Madam Speaker, Hon. Members, PSMAS is no longer closed. PSMAS is open but we made a statement and we have completed the forensic audit and the law has taken its course. We have put funds so that PSMAS starts operating and they started operating properly. That is what I can say at the present moment. I do not want to discuss a lot because the law enforcement is now on the matter after the forensic audit report was completed. We are putting measures through the regulator of all the medical societies in the country.
It is not only PSMAS which was errant. All medical societies in the country have not been complying with the work which they are supposed to do or using the subscriptions from their clients properly. We are going to visit each and everyone.
On the issue of training centres, we are going to establish training centres all over the country. Where there are facilities, we are going to upgrade and repair them so that we can train our medical professionals. That was Hon. Nyamudeza. Hon. Madzimure, I think I have already talked about the issue of MRIs. As I am talking, we are installing MRIs at Parirenyatwa Group of Hospitals and at Mpilo Hospitals. The problems we are talking about of MRIs, they are not the only ones which can do the tricks but we can use the Computed Tomography (CT) scans depending on the severity of the problem.
Public or Government hospitals are the ones which we have said we want to equip with all that is necessary. As I am talking, we have now bought dental machines which are now going to be sufficient to post in all our provincial and district hospitals. Mai vakarwadziwa nezino vari uko, havachati ndakuenda kuHarare, Gweru or Bulawayo to have tooth taken out. It can now be done at the district hospital.
You have raised the issue of council clinics that they are losing the people, yes true. You are aware if you have been following, we went to council and said, right, we now want to takeover and help you to run your clinics. They were talking of unaffordable salaries at that time. Ukaita chinhu chinozokubaya muridzi wacho. When the councils recruited, they overpaid without looking into their purse – [HON. BITI: Ndi Chombo] – aiwa, Chombo aita sei zvake. Musiyei. Panenge pakanganiswa tinotaura kuti apa pakakanganiswa. Macity fathers vakanotora ndokunopa vanhu ava vachiti vari kukaurisa Government. Mari ndobva yapera, zvino hapachina mari yekuvabhadhara – [AN HON. MEMBER: Central Government] – [HON. BITI: Ndi Chombo akaita zvinhu izvi] – aiwa macouncils. So, what we are trying to do is to discuss and this is why we are saying we are going to train people who are going to be amenable and work in the Zimbabwe we all stay in, not the Zimbabwe which is artificial.
Medical positions have not dropped to 27%, I said 13%. It is very clear, even in the most hit hard areas, they do not get to that percentage. Yes, we agree with you on canteens and everything; there you are 100% correct that they help motivate the people but the issue of whether somebody wants to come, the patriotic Zimbabweans will come to train and we shall train them. There are so many. Hon. Members, you must see the cue when it comes to who wants to be trained but now, we are much stricter. Somebody phoned me and says, ‘Oh! Are you the Minister of Health’ and I said, ‘yes I am the Minister of Health’. They said ‘can I get a vacancy so that I can go to U.K’ and I said, ‘Sorry, I do not have vacancies for people to go to U.K but I have vacancies for Zimbabweans’.
So, one comes with a ready mindset that I train and have a passport ready now to go. Now, those people, we do not train. We are now much cleverer. They will be some cries that we are no longer being taken for nurse training. We shall vet and then take the people who want to work for the people of Zimbabwe. By the way, the certificates are ours. We issued the certificates. They did not come from their homes with the certificates.
Madam Speaker, Hon. Members; the low salaries which Hon. Members spoke about, it is very good and that is what Zimbabwe can afford now but I can tell you that by the end of this year, with peace, love, unity and harmony, with all the projects now online and minerals now coming up, we will be paying well – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] – so the most loyal Zimbabweans will come for training either as medical doctors or nurses. Those who think the salaries are low can go and find somewhere they can train but I do not know if they will be able to manage the fees in the countries they want to go and work after giving them the education.
Hon. Tsuura, aiwa mbuya veutano takuvatora ikozvino kuvaisa paGovernment salary. They used to be paid by development partners or donors but if things do not go well between us, they quickly withdraw kana vada voti takukupai. Isu havasi hama dzedu, havasi vana vanamai vedu. Tinotonga nyika yedu sevana veZimbabwe, hatiteerere zvinotaurwa nedzimwe nyika. Isu takakwana vana vaMunhumutapa. Ndatenda.
[Hon. Members rose as The Acting President exited]
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 18 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 19 is disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 7, 2022]
Nineteenth Order read: Second Reading: Electricity Amendment Bill [H. B. 7, 2022].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker I rise to present my second reading speech for the Electricity Amendment Bill. This is a very short Bill. Besides the short title of the Bill, it consists of two clauses.
Basically, what this Bill is all about is to criminalise those people that vandalise electricity infrastructure to the extent that if they are caught, the court must not be given the discretion to give a fine but a mandatory jail sentence.
Madam Speaker, we believe that a move like this will ensure that the critical national infrastructure that we need will be protected. Basically, what Government is trying to do is to bring in provisions within our Electricity Act that will criminalise and ensure that we have deterrent penalties for those that vandalise critical infrastructure within our community.
Madam Speaker, you will agree with me that electricity cables, if vandalised, can lead to food shortages and can even lead to deaths. I want to therefore urge Hon. Members, this is a very short amendment, to accept these amendments to bring these deterrent sentences so that they bring into our society a sense that if you commit these crimes, you will be sent to jail without an option of a fine.
I so move that the Bill be read a second time.
HON. TSUURA: The Portfolio Committee on Energy and Power Development conducted nationwide public hearings from 6-8 February on the Electricity Amendment Bill which seeks to amend the Electricity Act [ Chapter 13:19]. The public hearings were conducted in compliance with Section 141 of the constitution which stipulates that Parliament must;
- facilitate public involvement in its legislative and other processes and in the processes of its Committees;
- ensure that the interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by parliament unless such consultation is inappropriate or impracticable…"
Therefore, public participation and involvement in law-making processes remains a central mandate of Parliament and complies with its vision of “… people-driven” Parliament.
METHODOLOGY
The Committee engaged the Ministry of Energy and Power Development to unpack the bill. It further conducted public consultations on virtual platforms such as Zoom and radio. Three sessions were conducted on the Zoom platform and two on different radio stations with national coverage (see Appendix 1). This report, therefore, summarizes the inputs received from the people of Zimbabwe with regard to the Electricity Amendment Bill.
GENERAL SUBMISSIONS
The majority agreed to the proposals in the Bill. The public highlighted that the Bill must also protect both the service provider and the clients. They further indicated the need for the Bill to clarify the responsible authority for replacing vandalised infrastructure. ZESA should be obligated to ensure the security and protection of electricity infrastructure given that only skilled personnel have the capacity to vandalise the infrastructure. The public also advocated for the formulation of a database that will be used to record all the transformers in the country as well as a tracking mechanism for stolen transformers.
The public also highlighted that there are fluctuations in voltage transmissions which is damaging electric gadgets. They recommended that ZESA should control its supply voltage as well as compensate the public for damaged electric gadgets. It was also mentioned that transformers should have localised live power, to avoid theft during load-shedding hours.
The public also noted with concern that reported cases are not well handled by ZESA. They recommended that ZESA should have a clear recording system on all reported cases of faulty areas. Additionally, they suggested that the Bill should provide penalties for ZESA employees that demand communities to contribute money towards the replacement of stolen or faulty electricity infrastructure. ZESA should also compensate individuals or communities that replace or install electricity infrastructure on its behalf.
The public recommended for provision of incentives to encourage whistleblowing of perpetrators of vandalism. It was further recommended that the Bill should provide punishment for law enforcement agents who accept bribes from those found guilty of vandalism or illegal transportation of electricity infrastructure. Some suggested that law enforcement agents should be imprisoned and relieved of their duties.
It was proposed that the Bill should also include penalties liable to electricity bill defaulters.
The participants also expressed the need for ZESA to publicise the load-shedding schedule.
The public bemoaned the lack of a legal framework to protect other renewable energy sources in the proposed Bill. They recommended that the Bill should also protect renewable energy equipment prone to vandalism and illegal transportation.
It was indicated that the Government should implement strategies that encourage the participation of private players in power production in order to curb power shortages and load shedding that end up encouraging the theft of infrastructure.
The public was worried about the wording of the Bill which created vagueness and room for misinterpretation and corruption when establishing the crime.
It was proposed the Bill should remove legal representation for guilty persons.
SPECIFIC SUBMISSIONS ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS
4.1 Clause 1: Short Title of the Bill
There was no objection raised concerning the title of the bill.
Clause 2: Amendment of Section 60A of Cap 13:19
Abstraction or Diversion of Any Electric Current
The participants proposed that in a case where the client had reported to ZESA about faulty meters and ZESA fails to respond in time, the client must not be charged with diverging electric current.
the public emphasised that the Bill should clarify from which point it makes it illegal to divert any electric current.
The public also proposed for the Bill to clarify what constitutes the “special circumstances” where one can be exempted from a stiffer penalty, as stipulated in the clause.
Vandalism
The public recommended for the mandatory sentence for anyone found guilty of this offense to average between 15 to 35 years for ordinary citizens. It was proposed that ZESA employees that are found guilty of this offense should be imprisoned for 30 to 40 years or life in prison.
Some members of the public queried the effect of a longer mandatory sentence on increasing corrupt activities such as bribes. As such they recommended for the mandatory sentence to be maintained at 5 years to curb corruption caused by guilty persons that attempt to evade the longer sentence.
The public proposed that the Bill should remove “special circumstances”.
It was recommended that the Bill should also provide for the repossession of stolen property and other property of the guilty persons as a mechanism to compensate for their crime in addition to the prison time.
It was also suggested that the mandatory sentence should be conditional upon the value of the vandalized or stolen electricity infrastructure.
Some suggested that the guilty persons to have their ears removed as well as shoot to kill on site for those caught in the act of the crime.
4.2.2.7 The public recommended that the Bill remove the provision for fines for guilty persons.
Clause 3: Amendment of Section 60C of Cap 13:19
4.3.1 Transportation of Material Used in Connection with Generation, Transmission, Distribution, or Supply of Electricity.
The public recommended that the clause should also introduce stringent measures to deal with the end users of the materials.
The public also proposed that there should be two penalties for illegal transportation and failure to disclose end users of the materials.
Committee Observations - The nature of the bill does not generate much excitement among members of the public.
- The public was in consensus that the Bill should also protect the consumers of electricity apart from the provider.
- The bill should have further amended the Electricity Act [Cap 13:19] to include the punishment liable to ZESA when it fails to supply basic minimum power to consumers.
COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS
The Ministry should copy from the Stock Theft Act which has no room for special circumstances that can mitigate mandatory sentences.
- The Bill should provide definitions of terms for ‘illegal connections’, ‘special circumstances’ and ‘diverting electric current’.
- The mandatory sentence should be a minimum of 10 years. However, those that vandalize more valuable infrastructure such as transformers should receive a longer sentence.
- The Ministry should implement an asset management register that can be used as a tracking mechanism for stolen transformers. It will also assist in ensuring that all electricity infrastructure in the country is insured and easily replaced.
In conclusion, Electricity is vital for economic development hence passing the bill with the proposed amendments will help legislate the sector in a manner that improves service delivery. However, the Committee is of the view that law should not be regarded as the panacea to challenges it seeks to address such as vandalism. ZESA should be proactive in ensuring that the electricity infrastructure in the country is well-secured and durable.
Appendix 1: Venues of Public Hearings
Date |
Platform |
Time of Public Hearing |
06/02/2023 |
Zoom Platform 1 |
1000-1200hrs |
06/02/2023 |
Zoom Platform 2 |
1400-1600hrs |
06/02/2023 |
Star FM |
1830-1930hrs |
07/02/2023 |
National FM |
1400-1500hrs |
08/02/2023 |
Zoom Platform 3 |
1000-1200hrs |
I thank you.
HON. BITI: This is a very small Bill which should raise no controversy but I want to mention two things. The first one is that from the Bill which just went through the House, the amendments to the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act with its hefty penalties on rape and also the present one, the Electricity Amendment Act with its hefty penalties and punishment for people who steal, we should not fool ourselves in thinking that heavy penalties are necessarily a deterrent, they are not. People know that if you kill someone, you will be subject to capital punishment. It has not stopped. On a day to day basis, at least six cases of capital punishment are being committed. Every hour six women are being raped.
In understanding crime and criminology, we should understand that crime will always occur because of societal challenges. In the case of the vandalisation of electricity cables and copper wires, a lot of our people are being driven to crime because of poverty and difficult economic conditions. Any criminologist will tell you that you cannot deal with crime by simply looking at penalties. You need to deal with crime by also looking at the causes of crime. Rushing to impose harsh penalties is not the solution and I urge that we need to adopt a holistic approach to crime, what is causing these crimes and what is causing an increase in theft of cables and the vandalisation of ZESA material because of the high value in a situation where 95% of our people are unemployed.
As far as the penalties are concerned, there is now inconsistent application of mandatory penalties. Stock theft is nine years. You have possession of a gun which is five years. You have mandatory sentence imposed with special circumstances being taken into account. You have some mandatory sentences where special circumstances are not taken into account. I am submitting that we need harmonisation of these mandatory sentences because they are now so inconsistent and there is no rational or objective explanation as to why we are treating them inconsistently. Once you say it is a mandatory sentence, it is serious and its treatment by the courts must be uniform; treatment in terms of special circumstances, treatment in terms of mitigating circumstances and treatment in terms of aggravating circumstances. That is not happening.
Lastly, mandatory sentences are by their nature unconstitutional. They are unconstitutional because Section 69 (1) says a person is entitled to a free and fair trial by an impartial court. A trial involves two processes of inquiry, the culpability enquiry. Have you stolen the cow in the case of mandatory sentence for stock theft? Have you vandalised in the case of this Bill that we are talking about? That is the first enquiry. The second enquiry is an enquiry on sentence. That is a serious enquiry. In developed jurisdictions, you actually have lawyers who are specialised in dealing with criminal liability. Then you have lawyers that are specialised now in sentence. If they stand before a magistrate, a person can be given community service. They go to your history on how you grew up and so forth.
The problem with mandatory sentence is that we are taking away the right of the court to enquire in the issue of mitigation. Criminology has now developed that the fact that there was violence in your house – your father used to beat your mother actually has an effect on whether a child can commit a crime and the sentence you impose - that is how it has developed. I teach some studies at some IVY League University in America and we had a professor coming to deal just with penalty sentence. The problem with taking away from the courts the capacity and obligation to inquire on criminal penalties is unconstitutional. We need to be very careful. Yesterday I referred to two judgements, one from Uganda, the case of State vs Alice Kigula and one from Malawi, the State vs Kafantayeni which have clocked mandatory sentences. I think that we should trust our courts. If you look at rape now, people are going to jail for 30 years, I was reading the other day a judgement by Justice Ziyambi. So, the courts are well trained to judge the temperature of society. Many years ago, courts were imposing 20 years for a car that cost US$200 because at the time a deterrent was needed. Right now, courts are aware that they need to deter cable thefts.
Lastly, the ZESA grid is not the only source of electricity. I have not visited your house but I am sure there is a solar panel and a lithium battery, so the law should also discourage and offer disincentives for people that are also stealing solar geysers, solar panels and batteries. I thank you very much Madam Speaker.
*HON. CHIKUKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I stand to speak as a layman on the issue of the law but I personally would like to see deterrent laws put in place to ensure people do not commit crimes if they know the sentence. In some countries they have sharia law and they know if you steal your hands will be decapitated. I had an opportunity to visit such countries and indeed even if you forget your phone no-one will steal it because they are all aware of the sharia law. They know there is no lawyer who will plead on their behalf not to have the sharia law applied. So, I am lobbying for a mandatory sentence to be put in place because the theft is too much. Sometimes people say it is because of poverty but if you go to places like America, they even steal much more than they do here yet they have jobs and good lives. So, I think it is spiritual and they just love stealing. That is why at times people who steal are even managers earning a lot of money and have good perks but they still steal because of a demonic spirit to steal. So, we should not stop putting laws in place because our people are saying we are poor. Actually, if you look at those who have been arrested, it is those who have everything. Those who do not have are scared of being arrested. They worry about their children and say if I cannot fend for my children whilst I am around what more if I get arrested and I am not there, my children will suffer even more. So, I am saying all those stealing and vandalising should face a mandatory deterrent sentence. If we leave it to the courts, we have some corrupt judges who will favour those with money and they do not go to jail but those who do not have will be given hefty sentences. So, if it is mandatory, even if you have money it will not work.
HON. KASHIRI: I was listening attentively to submissions made by Hon. Biti whereby he is trying to give the courts the leeway to come up with sentences. What are we trying to achieve through this Bill? We are trying to deter thieves from stealing. If they know that they have a leeway to be pardoned by the courts, we are not achieving what we intend to achieve. I would want to submit that should we have repeat offenders, let us go for a stiffer penalty, even a death sentence. We first have a mandatory sentence and for a repeat offender, it should be stiffer.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Madam Speaker for affording me the opportunity to add my voice to the Electricity Amendment Bill debate. I do concur with the amendment because people are suffering and the economy is suffering because of thieves who are stealing cables, transformers and are vandalising power infrastructure. Business people are running losses and people are losing meat, vegetables, you name it because of vandalism. MPs are also affected because many times we are chipping in to buy the stolen equipment using our own monies which is not good. So, I do concur with the provisions of the Bill to have a mandatory sentence as it will instill fear in some of the vandalisers. Previously people were being sentenced to community service for stealing and vandalising transformers and cables. So, if a person knows that he or she will get 10 years sentence, it will be a deterrent.
I also think ZESA should invest in technology such as trackers and alarms so that thieves will be scared to steal. Also, if the equipment is stolen it can be easily traced. That will reduce the bills of buying transformers and cables if they are not stolen.
*HON CHIBAGU: I stand to support the proposal for a mandatory sentence so that we preserve what we have as Zimbabweans. Long ago during the colonial era children did not steal as they were scared to do so but currently, our children spend time during the day smoking dagga and taking mutoriro. Then by night they go and steal and vandalise property. It is so painful to see that happening. Even our irrigation pipes are being vandalised and we are at a loss as to what we should do. Farming is a serious issue as it sustains livelihoods but they do not care about that. So, I plead with this House to ensure that we put laws in place that assist build Zimbabwe. We should be honest and do the correct thing so that our children do not continue stealing and vandalising things. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let me begin by thanking the Committee on Energy and Power Development that went around to solicit the views of the public on the Electricity Amendment Bill. I am happy that the public concurred with the proposals that were made, to impose stiffer penalties for vandalism of our equipment that is used for generation, transmission and also distribution of electricity.
What I have just taken note of is the need for compensation for the users that would have been affected in terms of their appliances, when appliances are affected. The public submitted that there was need for them to be compensated. The compensation is in place and it is being applied by ZESA. Whenever there is some irregular power supply situation which ends up affecting appliances, ZESA has a policy of making compensation. This is already provided for.
The other submission was that penalties for ZESA employees that would have vandalised equipment, should be stiffer than that of the ordinary people. I think this was the feeling of the public but it will lead to discrimination. This is the view of the Ministry that we cannot differentiate or separate penalties that are given to ordinary people and those that apply to ZESA employees.
The other submission was on ZESA to compensate individuals that would have replaced equipment lost through vandalism. This is already in place and it is already in application. Then the issue of load shedding where the public feel that there was need for a load shedding schedule. This is in place, you recall in this House, the Members also asked for a load shedding schedule, which we said once unit 7 and 8 are on the grid, then we shall have a dependable load shedding schedule and this is work in progress.
There is also the issue of renewable energy to be also covered. This was also submitted by Hon. Biti that the Bill does not seem to be covering renewable energy. Once we indicate that equipment that is used for generation, transmission and distribution of electricity, that is all encompassing. It includes hydro, coal generation and it also includes everything, inclusive of renewable energy. All that has been taken care of.
The issue of fault metres, where one would have reported and ZESA fails to respond or to attend to those metres, the public had the view that people should then be exonerated when they do illegal connections. We cannot allow lawlessness and once people have reported, they should wait until ZESA comes to attend to their property.
Let me go to the issues that have been raised by Hon. Biti, again to say that some people are committing crimes because of poverty. We cannot allow lawlessness, just because people are poor. People who commit crimes should be subjected to the law. Then the issue of harmonisation of sentences, which he also spoke about and the issue of the special circumstances. The issue of special circumstances is still provided for in the Bill. Whenever there are extenuating circumstances, that has already been provided and which gives discretion to the courts apart from the mandatory sentence that would have been imposed by the Bill.
Then, Hon. Chikukwa was also in support of the Bill. She even went to give examples of other countries where there are laws like the Sharia Law. She was just supporting that there is need to have such stiffer penalties that are imposed for abstraction of electricity and for vandalism of equipment.
Hon. Chinyanganya, also spoke in support of the amendments that are proposed by the Bill. He even gave examples of the effects of vandalism where there is disruption of economic activities. He was in support. Also Hon. Kashiri was supporting imposition of stiffer penalties and also, he was even intimating that for the repeat offenders, then a penalty like death should be preferred but for the purposes of this Bill, we are saying stiffer and mandatory sentences should be preferred.
Again, Hon. Chinyanganya went on to say that ZESA should invest in technologies like tracking, already this is in place. ZESA has procured some drones and in some sites, there are cameras and other modern technologies which they are using. However, all we should just do is to have a culture of protecting our equipment other than causing for such investment when this is a matter of attitudes and also sabotage. The same sentiments were echoed by Hon. Chibhagu, who even said that this vandalism looks like a way of sabotage, where she even compared that during the colonial times when the farms were owned by the White settlers, vandalism was not as rampant as it is at the moment. She thinks it looks like people are sabotaging against the current farmers that have been settled on the farms.
Madam Speaker, I now move that the Bill be now read a Second.
time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 7, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 3 put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported without amendments.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 7, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker, I move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that we revert to Order of the Day Number 18 on today’s Order Paper. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
LABOUR AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 14, 2021]
Eighteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Labour Amendment Bill [H. B. 14, 2021].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Allow me to respond to issues raised by Hon. Members on the Labour Amendment Bill. The first point raised was that there must be a clear definition of what forced labour and child labour is in light of our culture, tradition and heritage. The definitions used in the Bill are derived from the International Labour Organisation Conventions which we have ratified. These are minimum labour standards which are internationally accepted.
In our case, we have defined forced labour in terms of the ILO Convention 29 on forced labour and went a step further to clarify that it shall not include any work that is done as part of communal work or services, hence safeguarding our culture and tradition where communal work or services is infused in our culture and tradition. On child labour, the Bill also borrows from the ILO Convention 138, on minimum age which is an internationally accepted definition. As a country, we are bound by this convention as we have also ratified it.
Madam Speaker, on the issue of fast-tracking the process in the prosecution of sexual offenders at work place that was also raised, our Constitution under Section 50, gives rights to arrested and detained persons. As such, due process must be followed so that there is no miscarriage of justice. Further, the issue of penalties rests with the judiciary who interpret and apply the law the way they see fit. We are lawmakers and there must be a separation of powers between what we do and what the judiciary does, which is the point that Hon. Biti was raising earlier on that we must give the judiciary a leeway to do that.
The last issue that was raised about the Bill is that the Bill does not address the issue of employment of persons with disability. This issue is covered in the Bill, but let me hasten to say that this issue is comprehensively covered under the relevant Bill, which is the Persons with Disability Bill soon to be presented in this august House once it is finalised by Cabinet. The issue of employment is specifically covered under Clause 37 of the Disability Bill. Having said that, I move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
LABOUR AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 14, 2021]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 7 put and agreed to.
On Clause 8:
HON. BITI: Clause 8 is seeking to make amendments to Section 12. This provision is where labour law is. I used to be a labour lawyer for many years because this deals with termination. When you look at this, it is as if we are eliminating termination by notice which is okay. It means we are going back to the old position where we had Statutory Instrument 371 of 85, the position that existed after independence when the Labour Act was passed in 1985 which says that ‘no termination of employment can take place unless the Minister of Labour has approved in terms of S.I. 371 of 85’, but the notorious Zuva Judgement reversed that and said, an employer can terminate on notice.
When that happened, labour law died because what is the point of having a disciplinary hearing when you can simply give three months’ notice? We need to go back to the status quo. We need to go back to the old position where you cannot terminate on notice. You should only terminate - in other words, we need to remove no-fault termination and go back to fault termination to protect workers. I know what happened during that time. The IMF put pressure to the then Minister of Finance to say your labour laws must be flexible.
So instead of coming to Parliament, the court did what he should have done, to come here, confront workers and he knew he can confront workers. My proposal Madam Speaker is that let us be very clear that we are reverting to no-fault termination and that you cannot terminate on notice. You can have fixed term of contract. You can employ someone and even this law allows seasonal workers. The majority of people on your right side are farm owners, you are allowed to employ seasonal workers, but a normal industrial worker should only be terminated on fault. That means that the only no-fault situation is retrenchment which is covered by the next provision.
Hon. Minister, please let us go back to no-fault because it is leaving that floor and it is not repealing the entire Section 12. If it was repealing the entire Section 12, but it is leaving that, so let us go back to no-fault termination. If you want to fire somebody, discipline him if he commits a fault. In other words, let us reverse the case of Livingstone Dhonga and Zuva, the Supreme Court Judgement by the late Chief Justice Godfrey Chidyausiku. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Do you have the Labour Act there – [HON. BITI: Yes, I have got it.] – Hon. Chair, what he is saying, I agree with but the import of what Clause 8 is trying to bring forward is that it is trying to explain the conditions upon which employment may be terminated, to indicate that it is for misconduct when it is mutual agreement. If it is a fixed term contract for six months, when it expires and pursuant to retrenchment proceedings – so, maybe if I can check the provision that was put in place after the Zuva judgement has not been repealed because these are the provisions that the amendments that are being put forward after the substitution.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: We suspend Committee business for 10 minutes.
Business suspended at 2042 hours and resumed at 2052 hours.
On Clause 8:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I am proposing amendments in my name to Clause 8. Amendment of Section 12 of Cap 28:01 so that it reads as follows: - by the deletion of the following sentences. Section 12, this is what I want deleted. “Section 12 (“Duration, particulars and termination of employment contract”) of the principal Act is amended— (a) in subsection (4) by the deletion of the words “to be given by either party shall be” and the substitution of “to be given by either party shall (notwithstanding any provisions of the common law to the contrary) ”; (b) by the repeal of subsections (4a) and (4b) and the substitution of the following-
I am proposing that all this be deleted and it will read as follows: - and this becomes “(a) by the repeal of Section 4 (a) and (b) and the substitution of the following: - 4(a) a contract of employment…” as it reads and then at the end, where (b) says, “by mutual agreement in writing (with notice under subsection (4) unless otherwise agreed…” by the deletion of everything in brackets), where it says “with notice”. So, it is just to delete the first part and on (b), to delete what is in brackets where it says, with notice under subsection (4).
Amendment to Clause 8, put and agreed to.
Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 9 and 10 put and agreed to.
On Clause 11:
*HON. BITI: Clause 11 is amending Section 18 which deals with maternity leave. Madam Speaker, it is now time that Zimbabwe recognises paternity leave. I propose that we amend Section 18 since we are giving women 90 days. The Constitution of Zimbabwe speaks of equality under Section 56. Let us also give men paternity leave, even if we start with one month. Even if it is an unpaid paternity leave. Madam Speaker, you have a husband and he should be given paternity leave.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Madam Chair, I want to support the idea of paternity leave. I happened to work ….
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Can you elaborate paternity leave?
*HON. HAMAUSWA: There might be complications when a woman gives birth, maybe cesarean wounds which need nursing. This is the global trend. In Zambia, I benefited 14 days of paternity leave where I was with my wife and the newly born child. That is the time to show love and bond with the newly born baby. Madam Chair, when we craft laws, we should bear in mind that there are other people like Hon. Munetsi who may be having many wives, so the paternity leave must be limited to at least three children. Even the sick leave has got conditions that when you are sick to the extent that you are now bedridden, you will go to unpaid sick leave. Hon. Biti mentioned that men and women are equal under the Constitution.
Secondly, in marriage, we are also equal. Recently, we have enacted the Marriages Act and we are equal – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, paternity leave is very important. If we fail to include it, we are not being progressive. At least one month of paternity leave. It should be once a year or once in two years.
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: The law will be impartial because the paternity leave will not be given on some of the children if we have to limit the number of children when the father should apply for paternity leave.
*HON. R. R. NYTAHI: Hon. Chair, I think the issue of paternity leave is important. Some of us are no longer giving birth to children. The normal standard in other countries, the woman is given maternity leave in order for her to recover and take care of the baby. When the woman goes back to work, then the father is given the paternity leave. This enables the parents to bond with their child than for the child to bond with the house helper. This is a noble idea. This should be one and a half months to three months paid paternity leave. They should exchange when taking their leaves. After giving birth, women should go on maternity leave to look after the child and when she goes back to work, the father also takes paternity leave to help look after the new born child and they can alternate taking the leave days so that the child gets enough care from them than from the childminder.
This is a noble idea that you might fail to understand, but this is happening in other countries, and it can be for one and half months and they get paid. The mother is actually allowed to take some days before she delivers and after she has given birth, the father can also take leave and they both look after the child. It is happening in other countries and has become the norm.
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Nyathi, we want this to be clear to everyone not that I want to appear to be sort of debating with you. So, you are saying they should be taking turns to take maternity or paternity leave, at what point can this happen, can you clarify? – [HON. BITI: Mwana panenge akuvhurwa zheve] –
*HON. HAMAUSWA: I was a beneficiary of paternity leave, in Zambia they give 14 days of paternity leave. A lot of things happen when a child is born. There might be complications which require the attention of the mother and the father has to support his wife. We are also forgetting that the mother might not be employed and the father can take paternity to support or nurse his wife. We are able to convey our congratulatory messages because it is a miracle in itself that a child is born because childbirth is not a walk in the park.
A husband can be given 14 days paternity leave once in every two years. There may be complications which I think will be fair enough so that they are able to give support to their wife. We enacted the Marriage Bill and there should be consistency of equality as per the Constitution. Why do we now want to remove what you have given with the right hand and take it away with the left hand?
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: The issue of paternity leave is very important. It is important for the father to have time with the newly born child to bond with the child, a paternal bond between the baby and the father for at least two weeks in a period of two years. There should be a record for the father to enjoy 14 days paternity in a period of two years for a maximum of three children.
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Does that not infringe on the child’s rights?
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: We are trying to manage because we might have a time where the father will be continuously at home on paternity leave.
*HON. MATSUNGA: I would like to support the issue of paternity leave for our male counterparts. In our culture, women are actually sent back home to their parents when giving birth to the first child but after the first child, I cannot continue going back. My husband who is the father becomes the one who takes care of me after giving birth. We cannot expect that to happen for five children, but I believe if we work with a number of three children, that is acceptable. We are looking at my partner comforting me just before and after giving birth. Maybe I will have been operated, so I am saying may you give an opportunity to our male counterparts for them to take care of us. So may we put it down so that it becomes part of our law that our male counterparts get paternity leave. Actually, paternity leave will bring love and unity in these households.
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: What then happens to those who are in polygamous marriages in the case where the women might fall pregnant almost during the same period?
*HON. MATSUNGA: It is the same because right now our law states that we have no-one called a prostitute. We are saying everyone who has given birth should be taken care of. We are looking for equality whether it is a man or woman. If you have 10 women, it means you are strong enough to take care of all of them. We have a limited number that we are proposing and as a ‘bull’ you are going to manage somehow to take care of them. When I go into labour, the husband should be there to see what I go through and be able to comfort me because there is a lot of pain experienced by women when they go into labour but if they do not have an opportunity to go on paternity leave, who is going to take care of the woman?
*HON. MADZIMURE: The truth of the matter is that women often complain that as soon as they deliver a baby, the relationship between the wife and the husband changes. There are some women who go into labour for two days, and the husband will leave for work not knowing what will become of the wife who is in labour.
The Minister has said it well that childbearing is a national service, hence women need the support of their husbands during the labour period. During this painful period, a woman needs a lot of love and care from her husband. This in turn creates a strong bond between the wife and husband. Even the child inside her mother’s womb is able to hear the warmth of the father, therefore men should be given paternity leave.
In some instances, you would find that the new born baby has a strong bond with the maid than the father because the father was not always there for the baby and its mother.
*THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: If you are given paternity leave, will you be always present at home with your wives?
*HON. MADZIMURE: If a man is given paternity leave and does not attend to his wife then it means they are not responsible fathers; they do not even deserve to be called fathers. However, we cannot say all men are irresponsible.
Hon. Minister, you will be the best Minister ever, if you accept that proposal to give paternity leave.
*HON. MADIWA: I just want to add my voice to the debate of paternity leave. It is an issue that men and women have been clamouring for a long time. When we talk of paternity leave, we are talking of family matters and that the newborn baby should be close to both parents.
In other countries when a woman goes into labour, the nurses and doctors will be there to give technical experience but the man is asked to receive the baby during the process of deliverance.
The father-to-child bond is created when the baby is still in their mother’s womb. The behaviour, attitudes, and character of a new born baby is adopted at the infancy stage. Therefore, if the husband and wife assist each other in bringing up the child whilst at the very early stages of development, it will create strong family ties.
So, I am in agreement with paternity leave that the father should be given a chance to raise their children from the very early stages of a child. The current two weeks period is very minimal, the man should also be given a full month to take care of the child and mother during childbearing.
Moreover, during the first month of maternity leave, the woman would not be able to perform the duties of a wife in the bedroom, so there might be room for adulterous action by the husband if they are not together. So, both parents should be given paternity and maternity leave in order to safeguard their marriage because men will end up looking for girlfriends. I thank you.
HON. L. SIBANDA: Paternity should be granted to men until the day the woman delivers the child. Some women deliver through the caesarian section; therefore, the men should be present in order to change the child’s diapers and to comfort the woman from the pain.
Men should be given paternity leave for almost one month to assist in taking care of the child. After delivery, a woman has got a lot of tasks that she will not be able to perform alone, she will need assistance from the man to take care of the baby.
For example, if you have just delivered and the man goes to work, he will be attracted to other women and at the end of the day there will be broken homes. I thank you.
*HON CHINOTIMBA: I want to raise a few points on paternity leave. As prescribed in the law, a woman is supposed to be given 90 days’ leave which is three months. This is done in preparation for her to carry this national duty. It is a law that is in subsistence. On a daily basis, if you count the number of women that give birth, you will find that they are many. I have three companies all in all, one is a security company with 100 employees, the second one is a milling company with 50 employees and the third one is a garment making factory with 30 employees. All those people have wives. If ten women in a single company were to fall pregnant and go on maternity leave, that means ten men will also go on leave and the company will be closed.
What a man can do is that when a wife has fallen pregnant, the man can be given off days because the wife is not feeling well and not that they be granted paternity leave. All these Hon. Members on the left side are trade unionists. There is no such law. Once the man is ill, they can have leave days. I disagree with the fact that men should be granted paternity leave. The men should work because a country is built by its rightful owners. Men should work and women should go and give birth.
+HON. TEMBO: I do not agree with Hon. Chinotimba because it is impossible for women with husbands that work in the same company to be impregnated at the same time. I disagree that ten women can be impregnated at the same company within the same month. It would appear that a company would have made a caucus that we want it to happen that way. Women should be given their maternity leave and likewise, men should be given their paternity leave so that they can be able to raise their child and create a bond with their children. Children have to have a bond with their parents.
*HON. DR. MURIRE: I am one person who does not agree with that. I will support what Hon. Chinotimba has said. If you look at a security company, if you look at 10% of his workforce being on paternity leave, the work is arranged in such a manner that they will be two weeks in and two weeks out.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Madam Chair. The Hon. Member is misdirected because we are talking about paternity leave. We are not talking about the individual women. If you employ women only in your company, that is your business and you will not deny them their right to go on maternity leave. We are talking about a husband who is not employed at the same company with the wife.
*HON. DR. MURIRE: What I am saying is that there are other sectors where you can say two weeks off and two weeks in for workers. When you talk of workers, it means when others are off duty, we are getting 10% that is going on leave. It will affect productivity of the company. We should look at that. Whatever we are discussing, we should consider productivity of these companies. What productivity are we going to get with regard to this law?
HON ZIYAMBI: While I appreciate the need for men to be given paternity leave, it is an amendment for another day. For now, we are not taking it. I move that the amendment as proposed which is progressive for women be adopted. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 11 put and agreed to.
Clause 11 as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON ZIYAMBI): I move the amendment standing in my name that;
12 New Section inserted in Cap.28:01
The principal Act is amended by the insertion after section 18 of the following sections—
“18A Contracts for hourly work
(1) No employer shall engage an employee on terms that the employee will be paid only for the hours that such employee actually works—
(a) on terms that prohibit such employee from being employed by another employer or on his or her own account, during the hours when he or she is not working for the first mentioned
employer;
(b) if the effect of such contract is that in any consecutive period of two months, the employee earns less than the minimum remuneration or wage fixed in a collective bargaining agreement as the minimum rate of remuneration or minimum wage for the undertaking or industry, and grade and type of occupation governed by that collective bargaining agreement, in which event the employee concerned shall be entitled to be paid the difference between what he or she has earned in that period of two months and one month’s remuneration or wage;
(c) if such contracts are prohibited by the collective bargaining agreement governing the undertaking, industry and grade and type of occupation.
18B labour brokerage arrangements
(1) In this section—
“labour brokerage arrangement” means an agreement whereby a person (the third party) wishing to engage other persons in the capacity of employees (the employees) enter into a contract or other arrangement with a principal (the labour broker) by the terms of which the labour broker manages the payroll or other services in connection with the remuneration and other benefits of the employees and is directly responsible for the discipline including the dismissal of the employees and the third party assigns their duties and supervises the
execution of their work.
(2) Employees employed by virtue of a labour brokerage arrangement shall have conditions no less favourable than—
(a) other employees in that grade or occupation employed by the same employer; or
(b) the collective bargaining agreement for the undertaking or industry, where the third party only employs its employees in terms of a labour brokerage arrangement.
(3) Unless the labour brokerage arrangement specifies unambiguously which of the parties to the arrangement is responsible for the payments or damages in question, the labour broker and the third party are jointly and severally liable for any payments or damages to the employee arising out of any grievance or dispute or unfair labour practice.”.
HON. BITI: Madam Speaker Ma’am, this section is trying to introduce a very dangerous thing - in Section 18(b) the introduction of labour brokerage arrangements. Labour brokerage arrangements are modern day slavery because it works on the basis that a middle-man will employ his own employees and then sub-employ those people to a company or bank. For instance, cleaning services: instead of the bank employing cleaners, it will employ this brokerage company which then employs these people. It amounts to modern day slavery. It has been condemned by the IMF and if you go to South Africa, one of the biggest labour issues now are these brokerage companies. They will get a contract and not pay workers their due. We should refuse the importation of labour brokerage law into our jurisdication, particularly in a country where there is serious unemployment. If I wanted a job, I would go to any bank or any company and get employed. We should not introduce labour brokerage in our law. So Section 18 (b) must be totally removed because it is dangerous, abnoxious, unconstitutional, unheard of and an unpalatable exercise with the great energy we have right now.
HON. MADZIMURE: What Hon Biti is saying is very true. I was once a manager at the GMB and what they once did was to bring guards from Fawcett instead of the GMB guards that they had because they were running away from paying their pensions. However, five years down the line, they went back to the old system because this system could not work. The issue of having other workers being contracted to do certain duties that must be done by people directly employed by the company is simply running away from responsibility and we cannot get away with that. What we are doing is pretending to be a black government that loves its people. Yet we are now bringing through the back door, the same laws that caused the people to take up arms. It was not only the issue of land but also the issue of the labour laws that we had. The Burombos and Joshua Nkomos will now be turning in their graves when we bring such laws to bury the people of Zimbabwe. This does not make any sense. Why are we so cruel to our people? Why do you want them to suffer so much, why do you hate them so much? We have refused to enjoy paternity and now we are refusing them the right to enjoy the labour laws that we have put in place because when you are contracted to work in a company, they have no responsibility whatsoever.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, I think this law was brought in here before it was gazzetted and as labour unions, we rejected it. A company should employ its own people and be responsible for paying their portion of NSSA contributions. That is what companies are running away from. They do not want a worker to have a better life so they refuse employing the workers and opt to go and hire from a middle man. If it is a security company, they should employ security guards to go and work at the company that needs guards. As the employer, we get paid for services rendered by our guards and in turn also pay the guards. That is constitutional not this. It is unheard of that in this Parliament we need cleaners but Parliament no longer employs cleaners but they go and look for a middleman. It simply means they are running away from some responsibilities, so this law should be removed.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I propose that we expunge subclause 2 from the Bill.
Amendment to Clause 12 (2) put and agreed to.
Clause 12 (2) as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 13 to 29 put and agreed to.
On Clause 30:
HON. BITI: On Clause 30, Section 93 together with the amendments we have made in Section 12, when we dealt with Clause 11, it is the second most important provision. What was now happening is that if an employee had a complaint against an employee, he would write to a Labour Officer. A Labour Officer could make a determination on the dispute. When he or she makes a determination, he or she gives a judgement but that judgement was not called a judgement. It was called a draft judgement. The law then obliged that, that Labour Officer, through an affidavit, to register that draft judgement with the Labour Court.
The problem that was happening now was that some Labour Officers would not register those judgements. In some cases, the Labour Officers would actually quit the Government employ. They would start working for National Employment Councils or even leave Zimbabwe. When someone else tried to register that Draft Order, the Labour Court would say no and there are various judgements that says no. Only the Labour Officer who would have wrote the judgement have got the power. Now this current provision is progressive because it goes back to the old position where a Labour Officer makes a judgement and it becomes binding.
The problem now is that we have got hundreds of workers who had got draft judgements in their favour but they were not registered for whatever reason with the Labour Court. So, I propose an amendment here, which we may put for tied reasons in the transitional provisions. The provision I proposed, which I have discussed with both the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Labour, Prof. Mavima, is that we put a provision that says if for whatever reason, a draft judgement that was made by a Labour Officer, in terms of the old Section 5 (c ) was not registered as it was supposed to do in terms of 5 (d), that Draft Order is deemed to be a judgement that is executable and executable in the currency that it was expressed so that if it was to be converted, it will be converted to the RTGs as of today’s exchange rate. We have got people that are caught up in this lurch.
Lawyers tried to challenge the constitutionality of the old provision but did not succeed in the Constitutional Court. It is time that we do justice to those hundreds of workers who are left in suspension because a Labour Officer did not register a judgement. That old provision which was a haste provision was sneaked in, in Act No. 15 (2015). Minister, you recall that Act No. 15 was the Emergent Labour Amendment that was made to mitigate the effect of Zuva. It was the one that put that provision that says if you are given notice then you are entitled to compensation of two weeks for every year served. It was a rushed amendment because unions had complained. Now, let us do the right thing, a Labour Officer has got powers of making a judgement. If you are unhappy with it, you go to the Labour Court. If you are unhappy with the Labour Court judgement, you go to the Supreme Court but what happens with these people who suffer because Labour Officers either did not read rules or left the Government employ? Let us look after them. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Chair. I would like to thank Hon. Biti for his contribution. In fact, what he said is exactly what is being addressed by this Bill, but his only concern is decisions that were made that may be affected when this becomes law. My suggestion is, may be if we do not, we put it in transitional provisions, not here, to indicate that where judgements were made in terms of Section 98, where decisions were made by the Labour Officer and not registered, they shall be deemed to be registered. This is addressing the issues that he was raising to say that if a Labour Officer issues a judgement and if it is not registered, it was just left like that. In sub-section 2 it says, it shall be deemed to be and it will be enforceable. This is what we are trying to cure, which is not there in the current Labour Act. So, I agree but on transitional provisions, we can then add that so that when this becomes law and those cases come up then they will be deemed to be registered judgements under the powers of the Labour Officers. Therefore, I move that we adopt this as it is but we remember that when we finish this under transitional provisions, if they are not there, we then put that.
Amendments to Clause 30 put and agreed to.
Clause 30, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 31:
HON. BITI: Clause 31 deals with compulsory arbitration. I am concerned with Section 98 (2), which says subject to this section, the Arbitration Act shall apply to a dispute referred to compulsory arbitration. Why do we need this provision? We do not need it, it is superfluous. The arbitration should be governed by this provision because that other Act - you know it: Uncitral Model Law, it is complicated. You are over legalising. These are labour issues, remove that. Just be quiet about it. Why are you putting it, imi varume muri two?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): It is a provision that is – [HON. BITI: Ngaibve] – it is a provision that we left which was there in the current Labour Act. I agree. – [HON. BITI: Bvisai zviro izvi.] – Hon. Chair, I agree we expunch this provision and re-number accordingly.
Clause 31 expunged.
Clause 32 now 31, Clause 33 now 32, Clause 34 now 33, Clause 35 now 34, Clause 36 now 35, Clause 37 now 36 and Schedule put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Ten o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 31st May, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
BILL RECEIVED FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I
have to inform the Senate that I have received the Prisons and Correctional Services Bill [H. B. 6A, 2022] from the National Assembly.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Mr. President. I
move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 7 be stood
over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that
Order of the Day, Number 8 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
Ninth Order read: Adjourned debate on the Report of the
Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 By-Election.
Question again proposed.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND
CENTRAL PROVINCE (HON. MAVHUNGA): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR DOCTORS AND NURSES DURING COVID-19
Tenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on
the Conditions of Service for Doctors and Nurses During COVID-19.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity to debate on this very important motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane. As usual, in debating this motion, I would like to draw inspiration from the word of God…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE:
Order, order! Apparently, your gadget is not connected Hon. Senator.
HON. SEN. PHUGENI: Thank you Mr. President for the
opportunity to debate on this very important motion that was tabled by Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu and seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane. As usual, in debating this motion, I would like to draw inspiration from the word of God from the book of Esther 4:15-16, ‘Then Esther told them to reply to Mordecai, “Go, gather all the Jews to be found in Susa, and hold a fast on my behalf, and do not eat or drink for three days, night and day. I and my young women will also fast as you do. Then I will go to the king, though it is against the law, and if I perish, I perish.”
The gallant heroism of our doctors and nurses and indeed the
entire health sector was succinctly expressed yesterday by the Honourable Members who took part in this debate. COVID-19 pounced on us and like a thief in the night, it found us in deep slumber and woefully unprepared, for what looked like inevitable destruction and accordingly, the whole country was gripped with extreme anxiety.
Our health infrastructure crumbling under years of inadequate
investment for one reason or the other, protective wear shortages, corruption and tense labour relations between employer and employee; in this case, Government and the health sector amongst other things. Zimbabweans were hopeless facing mass deaths such as never seen before, considering the impact COVID-19 had against other health systems far more advanced than ours. It is no wonder Mr. President, that our health workers are in demand throughout the world.
During this dark period, notwithstanding the lack of protective
wear, our doctors and nurses interjected themselves, stood as it were with bare hands between the killer virus and our most vulnerable citizens and as a consequence, millions of lives were saved. It must, therefore, come as no surprise to anyone that I associate myself with this motion and the demands contained therein.
The slave wages paid to our doctors, nurses and indeed the
entire health sector demand that we all hang our heads in shame as a nation, in view of their selfless sacrifice. The low wages paid to our health workers is forcing them to take up other employment, which in turn compromises the quality of healthcare offered to our people. The low wages are forcing our healthcare providers to afford accommodation only in high density settlements, that are often far and have no reliable public transportation. Imagine when a health care provider has to move from his or her place of residence which in this case for those who know Bulawayo, might be St Peters – very far end of Bulawayo or even Cowdry Park and have to move to UBH. That will mean that health care worker will have to take two ZUPCO buses since the commuter omnibus are in USD or foreign currency; health care workers earn local currency. Imagine the time element spent in trying to commute to work which will be a minimum of two hours and at worst four to five hours. Imagine the physical demand and how physically exhausted will that health worker be by the time they get to work.
Our health workers deserve more than what we are giving them. It has already been said that the challenges which they faced during the COVID-19 was death itself and yet they did not shy away. It can be said that they sacrificed for our lives and for them to demand a decent wage and working conditions is not too much. On the 6th of May 2023, the Newsday reported and quoted the Minister of Housing, Hon. Daniel Garwe - ‘National Minister of Housing said that sanctions were not an excuse for failure to develop the country’. Some of the Hon. Chiefs here will remember a meeting with His Excellency Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa on the 13th January, 2018 in Gweru. This is what His Excellency had to say - Zimbabweans should stop complaining about the impact of western sanctions on the country and instead focus on creatively leveraging on available human and natural resources to stir growth and development.
The background to the text I started with is a story of a heroine called Queen Esther. She was the Queen of King Ahasuerus of Persia in the period around 479BC. A conspiracy to kill the Jews who were in exile was hatched by one of the top officials of the King. Mordecai who was an uncle to the Queen Esther tried to enlist the Queen’s intervention on behalf of her people. Unfortunately for the Jews, the law did not allow the queen to just show up before the king uninvited. Esther sent the word back to her uncle Mordecai that ‘whereas I deeply sympathise with the dreadful fate of my people including you my uncle, my hands are tied and I cannot help’. In Esther 4 v 13, this is what Mordecai’s motion to Esther read – ‘do not think in your heart that you will escape in the King’s palace anymore’ and I may read, “you may escape in Parliament anymore and all the other Jews. For if you remain completely silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place. But you and your father’s house will all perish. And who knows, whether you have come to the palace in such a time as this.” 15: Then Esther told them to reply to Mordecai - “go and get all the Jews who are present and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days and nights. My maids and I will fast too. After we fast, I will go to the king which is against the law and if I perish, I perish”.
Mordecai went his way and did according to Esther’s command. The motion is a noble demand on all of us to stand up for health workers and stop the excuses and make sure that our health workers have a decent wage and decent working conditions. Long live the undying spirit of our health workers, long live the undying spirit of Zimbabwe. Amandla.
*HON. SEN. D. M. NDLOVU: Thank you Hon. President of the Senate. I will try to speak in Shona so that you understand what I am saying though I am not very good in Shona but I always try.
There is always a cause in every occurrence – I am not going to dwell much on doctors’ issues but on the plight of doctors and nurses so that they get enough remuneration. I want to emphasise the importance of the patients. For doctors and nurses to be there, there must be patients. If a country does not look at the welfare of these people and the challenges they face in hospitals then the Government is not just neglecting the nurses and doctors, but the community and patients. We need to think widely as we consider the welfare of the people. As a Senator, when I was sworn – I was sworn to represent the people. When you look at what is happening and the words that are being said, you find that there is dishonest and reality of what we say. When I came to this august House, I came to represent people yet as a Senator I only come to represent my personal interests. This is what is obtaining even out there. I always listen when we pray that there are rulers of the office in Parliament. Parliament and its officers represent the people. These are the people who are supposed to set examples because Government does not see all the things but there are people who are responsible for taking the watchdog role. When the august House speaks about such issues to Government, particularly looking at the plight of children who are chased away from school because maybe they have long hair which they did not cut and teachers say that. As Parliament, we have that oversight and watchdog role, not just to come, sit and observe, seeing things as normal yet the people we represent are suffering.
Last month, I went to the United Bulawayo Hospital (UBH), this was a renowned hospital with good standards. I was shocked Mr. President Sir, to discover that people were given thin small blankets which were divided into two. I could not say that I was a Senator but I just asked someone if this was what was happening with other patients. I asked whether they knew that the blanket was that small and could not cover the whole body. They said that those were the blankets that were available. They said that if they could see parliamentarians, they would tell them. I did not even identify myself because I was embarrassed. I did not want to be identified with Parliament. They say that when you see MPs and councillors and other parliamentarians, please inform them that we need help in such hospitals like the UBH.
I also went to their OPD Casualty Department because I wanted to use their ablution facilities and take that opportunity to see their condition. I was led to an open room. I went there and I was shocked because it was not a proper toilet. There was water on the ground and there was blood on the floor. I asked whether this was a toilet and was told that this was the proper toilet which was being used by all the out patients; I was really shocked. The biggest challenge is with us as the eyes of Government because when we debate, we inform the Executive because His Excellency, President E. D. Mnangagwa is not on the ground. It is our responsibility to give him feedback and inform him about what is happening on the ground, instead of us sitting here and criticizing.
Even the issue of sanctions, I beg to differ that sanctions cannot bar us from having plan B. I am a woman Mr. President Sir and I am married. When my husband marries a second wife and the second wife stays elsewhere and people inform me that my husband has another wife, if they are not helping me with anything, why do they tell me that and how does that help me when they only come to criticize my husband? You are just criticizing, causing grief and causing pain but not proffering any solution.
I believe that as the august House, we need to proffer solutions and come up with plans to assist Government instead of complaining about sanctions only. If I had power, I would beat up the person who complains about sanctions. They should sweep the house instead of saying there is no broom. Why do they not go and look for leaves to sweep the house? We grew up using branches to sweep our yards. The onus is upon us to assist our Government because Government does not have eyes all over the country but it is our responsibility as representatives.
We come to this august House saying that sanctions are failing us but we need to figure a way of defeating sanctions. For example, if you come saying I do not have seed, then you can work with your neighbour to find a way of getting a cob of maize so that you have seed. This is hard work. No-one is refusing but everyone knows that sanctions are there but we can put on nice clothes, suits and plait our hair while sanctions are still there. The same plans that we are doing regarding our clothing should be applied to the emancipation and development of the economy of Zimbabwe because by complaining, we will be like a crybaby who just cries.
My plea is, let us come up with solutions and work with our Government. We came to this august House as representatives but when we come here, we start behaving like soccer players of different teams. Let us not be like Highlanders, Dynamos or any other team but let us be one Government and representatives of our people. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to contribute to the motion. Let me thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu who brought this motion and Hon. Sen. Ndlovu who just debated the substance. This is a pertinent issue regarding the welfare of doctors and nurses, even during COVID-19. Indeed, this is open and clear to everyone that our health care workers worked hard. Let me start by appreciating their dedication during COVID-19. It is like the young men and women who sacrificed their lives to fight for the liberation of Zimbabwe. We appreciate that because this showed their patriotism as the people of Zimbabwe when fighting for the health of Zimbabwe. Indeed, it is true that the tools of trade were not adequate.
Let me look at challenges that they face. Indeed, everyone needs a salary which is commensurate with their expertise. It is true also that a salary is never enough but it is true that doctors and nurses are earning what is below what they need. The second point is that when you go to work you need decent accommodation. The third point is that you need transport. The fourth point being that you need tools of trade at work. Indeed, all the things that I mentioned are not adequate for our healthcare workers. There is a shortage.
Mr. President, the issue that was pertinent is the issue of sanctions. Indeed, Zimbabwe is facing sanctions and we have gone through sanctions for over two decades until a certain point where His Excellency said that let us face reality, that we are facing sanctions and they might not be going anytime soon. So, the effect of sanctions might not be felt that much and that is why I said Sen. Ndlovu spoke well. We cannot continue crying but that is why Government is saying people should work hard so that you have enough to feed your family to defeat sanctions.
The challenge with sanctions is that we have heaps of elephant tusks and if we were allowed to sell them, we would fund our hospitals and our healthcare workers. As I speak, Government is trying to build flats and houses for our healthcare workers but sanctions are affecting us in that area. Those who prohibit us from selling elephant tusks do not fund even the construction of houses. Those we trade with to get foreign currency are prohibited from trading with Zimbabwe, which means that we cannot trade with external partners globally.
The other point is that if we look at the currency we are using in Zimbabwe, it is facing turbulent times and there is competition between the local and foreign currency. As I speak, it is now over ZW$3 000 because the money that we are using is not local currency. What we need to use, whether it is medication and other tools of trade, we need foreign currency and it is not readily available and not circulating.
Let me go back to the point that was said that we cannot continue complaining whilst folding our hands. There are several things that I believe should happen so that we defeat this. Indeed the Abuja Declaration prescribes that there should be 15% of the annual budget allocated to the Ministry of Health and Child Care but as I am talking, it is around 8% which was allocated to the Ministry of Health but it is not enough because this Ministry caters for all the 15 million people in Zimbabwe and 8% of the budget is not enough.
We have mineral resources, including diamonds, which at one point were termed blood diamonds and are not allowed to be traded globally. What we could do Mr. President, looking at Zimbabwe, there is a big challenge of drug and substance abuse. These are drugs which are bought by foreign currency. We have a problem of T.B which is a result of smoking. So, why not increase tax in that aspect. You will find that some taxes are taken from roads to repair roads. So, tax on substances and alcohol should be high and channelled to the Ministry of Health. If you buy for example a cigarette worth a dollar and the tax is pegged also at a dollar, then it will discourage people.
However, I cannot sit down without thanking Government for the good work that is happening. Bit by bit, we are seeing a difference even throughout COVID-19. Zimbabwe is among the few countries which managed to contain COVID-19 and had lesser and fewer deaths which means that our Government was indeed vigilant and our healthcare workers did their best. You would find that other developed countries had greater losses and it is surprising that we had fewer losses because Government was really dedicated. Our doctors and healthcare workers proved that they are true patriots who are prepared to work for Zimbabwe and the healthcare of the nation.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Indeed, a lot has been said but when you stand up you can add a few words to the motion which was moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu, seconded by Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane. I want to talk about nurses and doctors’ welfare. In the past, there was an outbreak of cholera and typhoid. You would find nurses heaping and pilling bodies in plastics at hospitals and this was the challenge that they were facing. Relatives were seated outside, which means that nurses and doctors are sacrificing their lives. These are people who care for the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe.
I want to say a few words especially looking at their living conditions which are deplorable. Where they stay and how they travel to work is really painful. My plea is that this is the Upper House in our Government in Zimbabwe. So, if possible, I would implore this august House that we look at transport and logistics for our healthcare workers. This is a period where we have in our area, the young men who move around carrying machetes. Health workers go to work fearing for their lives but they have to work for their families and have no option.
Secondly, I would like to request that we look at where they come from, their accommodation with their families. As I speak, you find that some nurses and doctors have children who are going to day schools because they do not have money to take their children to boarding schools. My plea is that Government should take care of healthcare workers. They are not the only ones who are important but we also have teachers who are quite important but they are not being accorded the right status. We have quite astute Members of this august House who passed through the hands of teachers. We have people who experienced accidents and were helped by healthcare workers.
Mr. President, it is my plea that Government should look into the welfare of our teachers and healthcare workers. My question then: is the Minister of Health and Child Care aware of the challenges that we are talking about because he is the responsible authority who should know what is obtaining in his ministry?
You would then have feedback that everything is well, do not worry. Mr. President, my request is that this should be looked into. Doctors and nurses are emigrating to seek greener pastures because they are not being remunerated properly. They are not getting the incentives that they deserve in order to have decent lives. Therefore, if we do not come together as a nation, we are going to lose our health workers to brain drain. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you very much, Mr. President. I also want to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu for bringing this motion to this august House. Therefore, I have stood up to add a few words to this important motion. COVID-19 is a pandemic that affected everyone in Zimbabwe and the world at large.
Mr. President, COVID-19 affected many people and it came upon us unawares. However, our doctors and all the healthcare workers stood to mitigate the effects of COVID-19. This was quite a challenge and the different World Health Organisation regulations like masks, sanitizing, and others were adhered to. At one point, a child fell ill and was attended to successfully; these doctors and nurses know their job very well, and they are trained personnel. We appreciate the good that they do.
We have listened to Hon. Senators here saying that the records are there of the people who were doing all the healthcare services, hence we need a percentage which should be taken as tax from every employee to cater for our healthcare workers. A committee should therefore be set up to monitor and assess what happens in the health sector.
We not only need to thank healthcare workers but even other departments which support the sector. We have our Minister of Health and Child Care who stood as the responsible line Minister who is also the Vice President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. When His Excellency, Dr. E.D Mnangagwa appointed the Vice President as the Minister of Health and Child Care, he knew the importance of the Health Ministry and its demands.
In our rural areas, we were facing challenges, we would encourage people not to gather, and as leaders in various constituencies, we would make it a point that even at funeral gatherings, they were limited and there was no need for waiting for those who were not around for the burial.
COVID-19 is now a thing of the past, but the sanctions are still there. There is nothing that is as important as having good friends, however, despite these illegal sanctions, His Excellency, the President is in good relations with other countries who stood with us so that we got all the medications that we needed and other facilities and amenities that were needed, be it injections, medications et cetera, continued to come from various countries.
Many countries stood with us; we cannot name them one by one otherwise we might end up skipping others. All these counties assisted us and we appreciate that indeed His Excellency should continue with the re-engagement agenda and bilateral agreements which benefits the nation. We have even noticed more and more investors coming into the country to invest in Zimbabwe, which is all because of good relations through His Excellency, the President.
We also need to appreciate the whole country and even us as legislators as we would talk to people about masking up, sanitizing, and isolation in order to mitigate against COVID-19. Our doctors and nurses would even go to work every day despite the risk of death that they were faced with. COVID-19 was a deadly disease. I would like to liken the health experts in our country to those who fought for the liberation of our country because COVID-19 was a vicious war.
However, I would like to come back to how we can address the challenges that we are facing even in the rural areas and I would propose that there should be a health tax that should be applied. We have our Minister of Finance and Economic Development Prof. M. Ncube, who should put mechanisms for raising funds that can support the Health Ministry. We have relatives who are out of the country, we have people who pull resources. As legislators, we need to come up with such solutions even legislators should find a percentage to contribute to the Health Ministry. If we work together and agree that every individual contributes $20.00 per month. Then we can raise a lot of money and also go to ministries and raise money that can be used in different areas. We appreciate and know that some people went out to fight for the liberation struggle and contributed differently. So, we cannot continue crying about sanctions.
Indeed, sanctions are painful and are biting not just in urban areas but in rural areas as well. So, the people who are running businesses in our country face challenges. If you do not have loans from banks, you cannot run a successful business. A nation cannot be viable without credit lines but now Zimbabweans have been resilient throughout sanctions. We have set bilateral partnerships and have even the belief that those who imposed sanctions on Zimbabwe will take note of the developments and remove the sanctions.
We continue soldiering on and Mr. President, we appreciate the guidance that you made during COVID-19. His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa was really active and did a lot during this time. He would create solutions whilst working with other countries. He invited those who had the expertise to work on helping people during COVID-19. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Hon. President for giving me the opportunity to support the motion which is quite pertinent and was moved by Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu and those who seconded the motion. Indeed, this is important.
Regarding this motion, most Hon. Senators raised valid points before I stood and I appreciate their contributions. Indeed Mr. President, our healthcare workers, doctors and nurses are very important in our lives and in the lives of Zimbabweans. In order for a nation to be developmental, it needs healthy citizens, you cannot work when you are not healthy. So, our doctors and nurses are very important.
COVID-19 Mr. President came to us when we were unprepared. Zimbabwe did not even know what COVID-19 was. At one point, I was in a commuter omnibus, the driver was seated next to an apostolic lady and they were talking about COVID-19. Despite the fact that people knew about COVID-19, they did not understand what it was. The driver was saying - you old people are going to die and we are going to remain behind as young people but with time, we saw that Covid was affecting all ages and was not confined to a particular age group.
Mr. President, let me say that Zimbabwe as a nation, worked very hard during COVID-19 through our experts like doctors and nurses. Indeed, let me say that COVID-19 transformed out culture as Africans. We know that on funerals there were different cultural rites and traditions that were done and these traditional rites were reversed because of the protocols that were pronounced during COVID-19 so that we could contain the pandemic. This really affected people because they could not shake hands and perform other traditions that they were used to. This, however, saved a lot of lives.
I want to support previous speakers who said that as Zimbabwe, we need to really look at the welfare of our doctors and nurses, their tools of trade, technological gadgets, proper accommodation, transport and adequate remuneration. Let us not wait for them to demonstrate. The field of medicine is a specialised field of highly qualified people. These are highly trained people and it will not be proper to find a doctor wearing a white jacket that shows that he is a doctor, walking in the streets demanding proper accommodation. This should be rectified so that our doctors do their jobs properly and that the nation is in good health.
Let me also say that teaching people is quite important. Our national television worked hard with other organisations to conscientize people about COVID-19. This was indeed helpful. When illnesses come, people should be conscientized so that when they see nurses and doctors going to rural areas, they accept help from healthcare workers instead of instances where you find a few people attending meetings at hospitals and clinics.
So, I want to appreciate the public education that was broadcasted by Zimbabwe Television. Indeed, during the first days of COVID-19, people thought that it was going to end in the developed countries but because of globalisation, we found COVID-19 proliferation to Africa and indeed to Zimbabwe. We appreciate that the pandemic was contained.
Mr. President, it is important that Government even through sanctions, I support what other Hon. Senators said that we need to work hard and unite against sanctions, unite to develop Zimbabwe. Whether there are sanctions or not, we must not be divided because when we are divided then we will not find the assistance that we need in the form of credit lines and financial injection for different projects but if we are united and speak with one voice, then we will get the help that we deserve for our hospitals and health care workers. As we speak together, this is quite important because working together means that we will succeed. As representatives, I appreciate that thrust. We have gone through sanctions for a long time and we need to continue working hard together for the development of the nation. We thank Government for the good job that it is doing in hospitals and other public institutions where we see medication being distributed. We appreciate that Government is not stopping supporting different hospitals and forging relationships with other countries so that our health care facilities are well equipped.
We are Zimbabweans and need to work for our country – no-one can work on our behalf. Our doctors are going to seek greener pastures in other countries and they are known to be hard workers there. We lose them through the brain drain yet it is costly to train them. As a nation, we should work hard so that we are able to support our health care workers. We need to continue looking at how we can ensure that their welfare is alright. We cannot have development if our health care is not good. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NDLOVU: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important debate. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu for bringing this motion and also thank Hon. Sen. Chief Ngungumbane for supporting it.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank our brothers, sisters, sons and daughters who are in the health profession for the sterling work that they did during the difficult period that we went through as a country. It was captured yesterday that it was expected that Zimbabweans were going to die in their thousands but surprisingly we managed to monitor and keep the COVID-19 pandemic under check with very little tools of trade for our nurses and doctors who were helping us.
Inasmuch as we would like to thank them, we should not be comfortable with the situation that we are under. We cannot be sending our soldiers to war without weapons. We cannot be sending our doctors and nurses to do their duties without the proper tools of trade, inasmuch as we thank them for their sacrifices. What we may want to do as a Government or country is to have our priorities right. We are failing to improve the conditions of services for our doctors and nurses. We are failing to deliver proper services to the patients that end up in those clinics and hospitals simply because we have got our priorities wrong.
There are certain things that we may have to look at which might be the root causes of why we are not able to improve the conditions of service – that is to make sure that there are enough tools of trade for our health workers. There are enough medicines for patients who end up in our hospitals. Some of the reasons are rooted squarely on corruption. There are medicines that are procured and have got to end up in our hospitals. At times they are overpriced. Those that we contract to supply those medicines either steal from the Government. I am aware of a situation at one stage where one truck that would be meant to deliver medicines would deliver to Mpilo and drive off with the same consignment, pretending to be delivering medicines. The recording is that the medicines have been delivered to these hospitals. We will be sitting here thinking that there is X amount of medication that has been delivered to hospital X. This is corruption that is inherent in some of our companies and we need to deal with it. That has absolutely nothing to do with sanctions but corruption and we need to deal with that directly and make sure that we prevent such things from happening. We need to have the checks and balances that these contracts that are given to these people – these are people who have a good record of working with Government.
Not so long ago, we had companies that were listed and black listed as having tried to cheat Government. I have had the privilege to work in certain industries and companies and I know what the cost of a computer is. Some of the computers that were being said to have been bought for USD6000 -7000 hardly cost R20 000; USD6000 is about R70 000 or so. If we are having such people and companies in our health sector providing services, we will be sitting here complaining about sanctions, yet it has nothing to do with sanctions but corruption. That is what we need to be dealing with.
Assuming that there were sanctions, this country is endowed with an educated population. Most of us are literate. We have got graduates that we are churning out of universities year in year out. We have got the University of Technology, University of Zimbabwe and many other universities in the country. If we have to complain about sanctions and yet we have got universities that are producing these graduates, what equipment are we not able to buy outside the country due to sanctions? We are able to buy cars, computers outside Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe does not have an assembling plant at the moment and yet we are able to buy some of these things. We are saying, if we are able to buy some of these things outside the country, beds and other sophisticated equipment; if we are not able to buy those things, why can we not engage our graduates to look into some of these things instead of us complaining continuously about the situation that we can resolve.
When South Africa was under sanctions, they came up with what is now called Sasol. Sasol is a fuel and energy producing company. They extract fuel from coal and this was done during a period when South Africa was under sanctions and they were able to mobilise their own people to say how do we deal with our situation instead of complaining every day. We are 43 years into independence and we are still complaining. We have not produced anything for ourselves but we want to complain about everything.
I think Mr. President, we need to collectively own up to the mistakes that we have done. We at least need to be forward thinking to say of the mistakes that we have made, how do we not repeat them? How do we correct them? If we are not in a position to correct these mistakes, how do we then make sure that the country does not – if for instance sanctions do not go away, are we going to be complaining about sanctions in the next 20 years. We certainly cannot be doing that. We have got to come up with solutions as a country. We have got to make sure that we move forward. We have got mineral resources that we can sell. We have got lithium, gold and all these minerals, we are able to export.
Of those that we are not able to export, they surely cannot be the reason why we are not able to deliver services to improve conditions of our doctors in our hospitals. We definitely need to be pragmatic. We need to think outside the box if we are faced with this situation where we know Mr. President that no one is going to come and rescue us. If then there are sanctions, then we need to fix those issues that have brought sanctions and we cannot continue to be blaming others. I know there are some issues that are beyond what we may want to fix. We have got a question of land where we eventually found ourselves being punished for that but there are other issues that we need to correct ourselves so that we get out of the issue of sanction.
In conclusion Mr. President, I would like to implore the generality of the population of Zimbabwe to say this is our country and if we have to move this country forward, we have got to be united. Someone spoke about the efforts that we are making as a country to make things right. Right now, our currency is depreciating and it is not because there are people from outside that are making things difficult for us. We are making situations difficult for ourselves. My brother said, but at times I think Zimbabweans deserve the suffering that they are getting if the Minister of Finance says your Zimbabwe dollar is equal to USD$1. We quickly say that our Zimbabwe dollar is bad money and we therefore have to drive it out. Hence, we end up in the situations that we are in. Our situation is also exacerbated by the behaviour of Zimbabweans and we need to try and collectively move this country forward as a nation. I thank you Mr. President.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 52ND PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum held in the Democratic Republic of Congo from the 3rd to the 11th December, 2022.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Twelfth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Sustainable Healthcare System in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Thirteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Sustainable Management of Waste.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Fourteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Measures to Combat Human Trafficking.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Fifteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145TH Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and related meetings held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 1st June, 2023
On the motion of THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE), the House adjourned at Nine Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 30th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a non-adverse report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the amendments to the Prisons and Correctional Services Bill [H.B. 6, 2022].
APPOINTMENT TO COMMITTEES
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that Hon. E. Nohwedza has been nominated to serve in the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care and Portfolio Committee on Primary and Secondary Education.
HON. NDUNA: I rise on a point of national importance. I acknowledge the amount of electricity we are now receiving because of the infusion of the current electricity with Hwange Unit 7 and 8. Be that as it may, I stand here on this platform and pedestal to encourage ZESA to continuously work in progress, remove the copper wires that are being pilfered by thieves en mass and replace them with aluminum which is not attractive to the thieves so that we can continue to have copious amount of electricity as has been seen in the past few days; in particular, during this winter planting and ploughing season. Those would be my submissions from the people of Chegutu West Constituency. They send their love.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon Nduna. I am sure the Administration of Parliament have taken note and we will convey the message to the responsible Minister.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My point of national interest is to the attention of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. It is purely to do with the incapacitation of civil servants across all the different ministries due to the fact that the level of inflation that has been experienced over the past three weeks as opposed to the salaries that the civil servants are getting, is terrible. What has caused this inflationary process that we have experienced over the past three weeks? The salary levels that our civil servants are getting have been eroded so badly to an extent that the salaries are no longer useful to our civil servants.
As a result of that, my question and prayer to the attention of the Minister of Finance is that; what measures will he be putting in place so that the challenge is managed with regards to our civil servants in terms of incapacitation across all the sectors. What remedy, in the short term, is he going to put in place to address the experience of civil servants that they are going through as a result of this situation? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I advise that you ask the Hon. Minister tomorrow during question time.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Questions have been put across Madam Speaker. My prayer is for the Hon. Minister to come up with a Ministerial Statement so that Members will interrogate the Hon. Minister, one-on-one over various issues to do with the salaries and the incapacitation that has been caused.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That has been noted and the message will be conveyed to the responsible Minister.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is more of the same with Hon. Mutseyami but the Speaker ruled that the Minister of Finance would be here to respond to these issues. We see him globe trotting in the shops instead of coming here to answer questions. We want him to come and answer questions which the Speaker had spoken about. We were assured by the Speaker that he would come.
We were given Z$11.4 million for CDF when the rate was US$1:Z$1000 and now it is Z$3500. If you look at the $11 million, it is about three or four thousand. What are we going to do with that? Already we are going towards elections and we had promised the electorate boreholes and other programmes. Now you cannot even do them. What is the point of giving us the money? If we are to be given that money, can we have a top up to deal with the inflationary environment which is there. Otherwise for me, I am not touching the money and my electorate must know that. It will make me lose. What do I do with US$3000? No wonder why these Members of Parliament especially from ZANU PF lost in the primary elections. It is because of inflation. They were telling people that they would do a,b,c and d. They never did it and they lost. The person who won against them came and did exactly what they did not do. You cannot blame them for losing. It is the system which is fighting us.
The Minister of Finance must come here. It is a national issue which Hon. Mutseyami brought up. Why is he quiet. If we are going to dollarise, let us dollarise. We are selling gold in US$ and the current revenue received in the country, 90% of it is US$. We are not abandoning our currency but let us be realistic. It is not good on the ground at all. May the Minister come and stop globe trotting in Bulawayo where he is trying to appease his electorate. He must come here and answer questions of national interest. This is a crisis.
You cannot go to elections unless you want to sabotage the ruling party and the President because this inflation will cost the ruling party because people will go to the elections angry. I hope Hon. Ziyambi who is a member of the Politburo will bring it up in their Politburo meeting that there is a serious issue. We cannot go to elections with such a rate and do not say that you were rigged. The inflation will rig you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. As was ruled by the Hon. Speaker, that the Minister must bring a Ministerial Statement in this House. He would be advised to do that. Thank you.
HON. B. DUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The RBZ has been selling US dollars on the auction market to perceived business people for purposes of importing goods to make sure that there is increased production through the availability of cheap foreign currency to those people. It has however proven that there has not been an increase in production in the various sectors, which may indicate that the people who have been getting that money might have possibly been using that system to obtain money at a cheaper rate. They would then syphon it through using false invoices for purposes of fake imports, thereby fueling the parallel market rates by selling the US dollars through the parallel market, instead of using that foreign currency to benefit the nation. Particularly in the sense that we have not seen the increase in the production which was supposed to be exhibited directly by the reduction in the price of bread but it is increasing. All other materials including building materials are increasing in prices, which means there has been no benefit. So, it is my plea that the Hon. Minister comes to this august House and give a Ministerial Statement giving an audit trail on how from day one to date, the auction system has benefitted anyone other than actually supplying US dollars to the parallel market and fueling inflation. I thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Dube. The Hon Minister of Finance will be asked to bring the Ministerial Statement to this House.
HON. BITI: I thank you for allowing me to raise a point of national interest. Madam Speaker, in terms of Chapter 11 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, our Constitution recognises our security forces and security agents, which consist of the military, police, prisons and correctional service and intelligence. We respect these institutions and we are proud of these institutions who by virtue of Section of 208 are bound to respect this Parliament as an elected civilian authority. During this current ongoing voters’ roll inspection exercise, we are seeing at polling stations a creature and individuals coming from a creature called FAZ. They are virtually in every polling station. We read that they purport to come from the intelligence service but we know the intelligence service and our intelligence authority. What is this creature called FAZ, why is it interfering with our elections? I know from the ruling party ZANU-PF that FAZ even interfered in their primary elections. Madam Speaker, if we create parallel structures, it will lead to disaster and military coups. May the Minister of Defence come and explain what FAZ is doing in our polling stations when in terms of the law only ZEC officials, political parties and candidates are allowed to be in the polling stations. I thank you.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Biti. The message will be conveyed to the Minister of Defence to come and explain to this House as you requested.
HON. MOKONE: I rise on a point of national interest, which hinges around the work of NPRC. According to Chapter 12, Section 233 of the Zimbabwean Constitution, it gave birth to independent commissions and that included the NPRC, which was set amongst other functions to deal with past imbalances and atrocities. On the functions of NPRC, it was formed to develop and implement peaceful resolutions of disputes. Let me hasten to say that Zimbabwe has experienced a lot of these violent conflicts and the most popular one being the Gukurahundi in Matebeleland and Manicaland provinces. I had hoped that from its inception to date, it would have dealt with some of the issues religiously but to date, its success is nothing to write home about. Now that this august House is about to come to an end, I would request that the responsible Ministry reports to this august House on the progress as regards what the NPRC Commission has achieved and possibly consider putting a Statutory Instrument with regards to the compensation of the victims of the past violent conflicts. I thank you Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mokone. I advise you to put that question in writing so that the responsible Minister can make some investigations and bring the response to this august House as per your request.
*HON. TOBAIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My point of national interest borders around Globe and Phoenix Mine that collapsed due to mining activities that are taking place next to the mine. I rise to again indicate that the Minister of Mines has to deliver a Ministerial Statement on what has happened. We have a flat and a house that has collapsed again in Kwekwe. There are two mines that surround that area. Is the Minister not aware of the person who is responsible for mining in that area that is putting the people at risk? The people are now leaving their residences. Who is now going to compensate them? The person who is mining in that area is known. I urge the Minister to come and explain why they are not taking action so that this mine can stop operations because it is a risk to the people.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Tobaiwa about the matter which you have raised because it affects the lives of people. The message will be relayed to the Minister of Mines. The Minister will be requested to give a ministerial statement to this august House as regards such activities.
The Hon. Deputy Speaker asked Hon. Zwizwai to approach the Chair.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6, 2022]
Amendments to Clauses 3, 6, 8, sub-section 1, 4, 11, 12, 22,33, 39, 40, 41, 43, 46, 49, 51, 62, 65, 67, 69, 71, 72, 87, 89, 139, 153 and 171 put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
PRISONS AND CORRCTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6A, 2022]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the Bill be now read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day, Nos 1 to 11 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 12 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CRIMINAL LAW (CODIFICATION AND REFORM) AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 15, 2022]
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Amendment Bill (H.B. 15, 2022).
Question again proposed.
HON. MATARANYIKA:
- Introduction:
Thank you, Madam Speaker Ma’am. Section 141 of the Constitution requires Parliament to engage the general members of the public in its legislative processes and ensure that all interested parties are consulted about Bills being considered by Parliament. In fulfillment of this constitutional obligation, the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal, and Parliamentary Affairs conducted public consultations on the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Amendment Bill, to gather the views of the people from the 20th to 25th February, 2023. The Bill which was gazetted on the 23rd December, 2022 seeks to amend the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act [Chapter 9:23].
- Background to the Bill:
Criminal law is a social mechanism that is used to coerce members of society, through the threat of pain and suffering, to abstain from conduct that is harmful to various interests of society. Its objective is to promote the welfare of society and its members by establishing and maintaining peace and order. In Zimbabwe, the Criminal Law Code gathers all the main aspects of that branch of law in one piece of legislation. Previously, the law was widely dispersed in common law and a large number of different statutes, hence making it difficult to locate common law dealing with crime. The Code also effects a series of reforms and improvements to existing law. Over the years, the Code has created several new crimes and modified many of the existing crimes. The Bill, thus seeks to effect amendments on crimes of damaging national sovereignty, rape, dangerous drugs, and abuse of public office.
- Methodology
The Committee was split into two teams covering all the country’s 10 provinces covering 19 venues. Team A covered Mashonaland West, Midlands, Bulawayo, Matabeleland North, and Matabeleland South while Team B conducted public hearings in Mashonaland Central, Harare, Mashonaland East, Manicaland and Masvingo. Public hearings were conducted to gather the views of the general members of the public.
- Overview of the Consultations
Team A managed to reach a total of 319 people comprising 44% females and 56% males. Team B reached 177 citizens, comprising 45% females and 55% males. The aggregate reach was therefore 496 people, 44% being females and 56% males (see Appendix 1). The Committee managed to get very insightful contributions. The Committee considered and deliberated on the submissions gathered to develop this comprehensive report.
- General Submissions on the Bill
The public applauded Parliament for reaching their communities and seeking their views pertaining to the Bill which is before Parliament. The public expressed that the Bill should seek to protect the rights of the people of Zimbabwe for the development of the country.
- Specific Submissions on the Bill
6.1. Clause 1: Short title There were no objections raised concerning the title of the Bill in all ten provinces.
6.2. Clause 2: Crime and Penalties for Willfully Damaging the Sovereignty, Dignity, and Independence of Zimbabwe
There were mixed feelings about this clause. Some members of the public proposed for the removal of the clause citing a violation of Section 58 (Freedom of Assembly and Association) of the Constitution. It was their view that the clause will deliberately disrupt freedom of speech in Zimbabwe which is also contrary to the bill of rights in the Constitution. It was their opinion that if complaints are submitted in a non-partisan manner, they should not be treated as crimes but rather as suggestions and constructive criticism. On the other end, some members of the public commended the clause and highlighted that the new crime was long overdue as it will go a long way in protecting the image of the country. It was their opinion that the law should protect the heritage of the country and not be used as a violation of the rights of citizens. They further submitted that patriotism is a key pillar for the development of a nation.
Some members of the public submitted that the Bill proposes that the penalty for attending a meeting to consider or plan armed intervention be the same as for treason yet under section 20 of the Code, the penalty for treason is death. However, section 48 of the Constitution states that the death penalty can be imposed only on persons convicted of murder committed in aggravating circumstances, hence it cannot be imposed on persons convicted of treason in the new crime. It was further submitted that the penalty of deprivation of citizenship which can be imposed on someone convicted of attending a meeting to consider sanctions infringes Section 39 of the Constitution. It was their view that citizenship by birth can be revoked only if it was obtained by fraud or mistake, and this is so whether or not the person has dual citizenship.
It was also submitted that the penalty of prohibition from being a registered voter contravenes paragraph 2 of the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, which allows a person to be disqualified from registration as a voter only if he or she has committed an offence under the Electoral Act. It was therefore recommended that the clause should clearly define national interests and political interests, be non-partisan, penalties only apply to those who damage the image of the country in the international arena, and there be a referendum on the clause
6.3. Clause 3: Mandatory Minimum Sentences for Rape
The majority of the public applauded this clause and highlighted that it was a positive development since rape is an abhorrent crime that has devastating and lasting effects on the victim. Some members of the public were of the view that a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years for rape committed in aggravating circumstances, is not deterrent enough to curb the crimes of rape. It was recommended that for rape committed in aggravating circumstances, the mandatory minimum sentence be set at 20 years while for rape committed with no aggravating circumstances, the mandatory minimum sentence be set at 10 years. It was also submitted that the amendment only covers two sexual crimes, that is, rape and aggravated indecent assault whilst other sexual offences do not have any prescribed minimum mandatory sentences.
On the other hand, some members highlighted that mandatory minimum sentences are unconstitutional unless there is some provision in the law for them not to be imposed in special circumstances. It was also their view that the Bill does not clearly define what these aggravating circumstances are. It was therefore recommended that the Bill should clearly specify what constitutes aggravating circumstances.
6.4. Clause 4: Definition of Dangerous Drugs
The public noted with great concern that drug abuse has become rampant in communities across the country. It was highlighted that the fight against drug abuse will only be successful if it is dealt with from the root cause, that is, the sources of drugs and how they enter the country. It was submitted that most of these drugs were not being manufactured locally, hence they get into the country through the borders and airports. The public, therefore, applauded this clause and further recommended that every illicit intoxicating substance be considered a dangerous drug. Examples of such substances included drugs being made from diapers, TV cables, a mixture of Mazoe orange crush and Cerevita, glue, and many other illicit brews. It was, therefore, recommended that a mandatory minimum prison sentence for drug dealers be set at 15 years.
6.5. Clause 5: Abuse of Office by Public Officers
Some members of the public highlighted that there is no justification for ignorance of the law. They were concerned that the clause will promote abuse of offices by senior public officers who will cite that they were not aware that what they were doing was illegal.
6.6. Additional Clauses
6.6.1. Protection of Children from Sexual Exploitation by Adults
Organisations advocating for sexual and reproductive health rights for young persons proposed for additional amendments to be made to the Criminal Law Code to strengthen the protection of children from sexual exploitation by adults. It was their view that the objective of the law should be to protect children from sexual exploitation by adults by setting the minimum age at which young people can consent to sexual intercourse.
It was submitted that the conflict of laws around the age of consent to sexual intercourse has been recently determined by the Constitutional Court of Zimbabwe and Parliament was given one year to amend various sections of the Criminal Law Code that are in conflict with the Constitution. While the Constitution defines a child as anyone below the age of 18, section 61 of the Criminal Law Code defines a young person as anyone below the age of 16. It was therefore recommended that Parliament should give effect to the ruling made by the Constitutional Court by amending sections 61, 62, and 70 of the Criminal Law Code by setting the age of young persons at 18 years.
It was further recommended that consensual intercourse between minors should not be criminalized. It was their view that the law should state expressly what should happen in instances of consensual sexual intercourse between minors as long as the older partner is no more than two years older. This is commonly referred to as the Romeo and Juliet clause.
To strengthen the protection of children from sexual exploitation by persons who have authority over them like teachers, it was recommended that there be the establishment of a National Sex Offenders Register. The register will contain the names of persons who have been convicted on charges of sexual offences committed against a child or a mentally disabled person. The penalty for anyone whose name appears on the National Sex Offenders Register, that person should not be employed in any capacity in an institution that works with children.
6.6.2. Sexual Violence that Occurs within the Context of a Romantic Relationship.
It was also submitted that non-consensual sexual intercourse that occurs in the context of a romantic relationship, commonly referred to as “date rape” should be clearly recognized as a sexual offence within the law.
6.6.3. Termination of Pregnancy for Victims of Sexual Exploitation
Organisations advocating for sexual and reproductive health rights submitted that although the Termination of Pregnancy Act provides for termination of pregnancy in cases where the pregnancy is a result of unlawful sexual intercourse (rape), pregnancies in cases of having sexual intercourse with a minor (s70 of the Code), cases of consensual intercourse between minors and cases of child prostitution (s87 of the Code) are not covered. It was therefore recommended that section 60 of the Criminal Law Code be amended to allow for the termination of pregnancy if it is as a result of any sexual offence mentioned in the Criminal Law Code.
- Committee Observations
The Committee made the following observations:
7.1. The public was concerned that their input to Parliament public hearings yields no results.
7.2. There was a perception among the public that the laws that are being made by Parliament lack implementation.
7.3. The proposed new crime of willfully damaging the reputation of the country attracted different political views.
7.4. There was a general consensus on the need to have mandatory minimum sentences for rape.
7.5. There was a consensus on the effects and penalties of drugs across the country.
- Committee Recommendations
The Committee, therefore, recommends that:
8.1. Law enforcement agencies should implement the laws without any exceptions.
8.2. There should be tight security at border posts and airports to curb the importation of drugs into the country
8.3. Amendment of sections 61, 62, and 70 of the Criminal Law Code by setting the age of young persons at 18 years.
- Conclusion
The Bill makes a commendable effort in legislating societal conduct by threatening punishment and trying to suppress anti-social conduct likely to disrupt society. In this regard, the Bill seeks to amend the Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act by punishing people whose conduct is deemed to hurt the country’s interests and those who engage in unlawful sexual activity by providing mandatory sentences for rape. The Committee, therefore, believes that passing this Bill after consideration of the views of the people and their recommendations will help to shape the country’s criminal justice system.
Appendix 1
Venue |
Male |
Female |
Total |
Mangura Golf Club |
29 |
21 |
50 |
Chegutu Welfare Centre |
4 |
3 |
7 |
Gokwe Cheziya Community Hall |
32 |
19 |
51 |
Kwekwe Mbizo Youth Centre |
31 |
23 |
54 |
Bulawayo Sebourne Hotel |
20 |
11 |
31 |
Luveve Beit Hall |
50 |
53 |
103 |
Filabusi Mtwakazi Hall |
7 |
5 |
12 |
Gwanda Jahunda Primary Hall |
7 |
4 |
11 |
Bindura Chipadze Hall |
0 |
0 |
0 |
Ambassador Hotel |
12 |
11 |
23 |
Murehwa |
18 |
12 |
30 |
Marondera Mbuyanehanda Hall |
1 |
1 |
2 |
Nyanga Nyamhuka Hall |
11 |
11 |
22 |
Mutare Chikanga |
9 |
7 |
16 |
Nyika BSPZ |
12 |
5 |
17 |
Masvingo Mucheke |
11 |
20 |
31 |
Chivi |
1 |
0 |
1 |
Zvishavane |
1 |
0 |
1 |
Total |
27 |
219 |
496 |
Venue – Male - Female -Total; Mhangura Golf Club 29, 21, 50; Chegutu Welfare Centre 4, 3, 7; Gokwe Cheziya Community Hall 32, 19 51; Kwekwe Mbizo Youth Centre 31, 23, 54; Bulawayo Selbourne Hotel 20, 11, 31; Luveve Beit Hall 50, 53, 103; Lupane Community Hall 0, 0, 0; Filabusi Mthwakazi Hall 7, 5, 12; Gwanda Jahunda Primary Hall 7, 4, 11; Bindura Chipadze Hall 0, 0, 0; Ambassador Hotel 12, 11, 23; Murehwa 18, 12, 30; Marondera Mbuya Nehanda Hall 1, 1, 2; Nyanga Nyamhuka Hall 11, 11, 22; Mutare Chikanga 9, 7, 16; Nyika BSPZ 12, 5, 17; Masvingo Mucheke 11, 20, 31; Chivi 22, 13, 35; Zvishavane 1, 0, 1; Total 277, 219, 496. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to debate this Bill, the Criminal Law Codification and Reform Amendment Bill. Madam Speaker, after the November 2017 change over from what was said the First Republic to the Second Republic, we never thought that we will live to see a day like this where a piece of draconian proposal would come before this august House. We thought Madam Speaker that we will actually be moving a step forward rather than to move three steps backwards.
This Bill Madam Speaker, if you remove very few items, you will discover that this Bill has nothing to do with furtherance of the interest of this nation. This Bill turns to stifle democratic space for Zimbabweans. It is wrong, in my view, to smuggle in and try to criminalize anybody that does not share the same view with you. If you see this Bill talks about who controls the sovereignty and national interest of Zimbabwe.
If you read this Bill, there should actually be a general convergence and agreement in terms of even the definition of what is called the national interest. If you go through it, you will come to a conclusion that there is a confusion, national interest versus partisan political interest. Madam Speaker, we as Zimbabwe, in 2023 cannot try to redo what Ian Smith did. We need to be moving forward rather than to be moving backward and I can bet you if Ian Smith was to rise today, he will be shocked that the people that were calling for a majority and democratic State have actually gone back and done worse things than Smith could even do.
Madam Speaker, you cannot legislate and come before this august House and simply say if anyone has any meeting where you express your views pertaining to the manner in which things are happening in Zimbabwe, that person can actually be criminalized and somebody can actually go to jail - we cannot do that.
Madam Speaker, if this Bill is allowed to move and to become a piece of law in this country, then I can tell you that no-one will be safe, we have learnt recently that the things that we thought are normal and the things that we thought cannot be changed, can actually be changed overnight. This law may actually have been put hoping to punish people from this side but if we go to the elections and as the indication is clearly indicating, we take the power in this country then members of this other side will actually face this same law, I do not think it will be to the best interest of Zimbabwe.
Just look at the way they define a meeting, they say “any communication between two or more persons whether happening in person or virtually or by a combination of both which involves facilitated or convened by a form of Government or any of its agent, proxies or entities”. Truly, Madam Speaker, how can we allow such things to happen because what it then does, it means that every one of us, every Zimbabwean, it does not matter whether you are a political player, it does not matter whether you are in the commercial field. One way or the other, your life is actually in danger then if you go through this Bill, they then tell you that you will be found guilty if there is subverting, upsetting the Government of Zimbabwe, if you just upset them. Madam Speaker, there is no way and I do not believe that Hon. Ziyambi-Ziyambi, the leader of Government business, knowing him as I do would actually find peace and can sleep peacefully if we pass this piece of legislation. This is a draconian piece of legislation which this august House cannot allow to be passed. It is one thing to bring a Bill before this august House but I can tell you that anybody who has got Zimbabwe at heart and anybody who believes in the democratic principles will never celebrate the passage of this Bill.
This Bill Madam Speaker, takes us several steps backward and there are many ways; we have several pieces of legislation that we have in this country that deal with matters of a criminal nature. There is no reason Madam Speaker, expect that we will be trying to settle political scores by coming up with a legislation that criminalizes things that are supposed to be normal. We do not want to then end up criminalizing, let us say Hon. Chinotimba if in the spirit of happiness, he castigates His Excellency the President in Buhera and then you evoke this piece of legislation and say that you have upset the Government, we cannot allow that to happen.
Madam Speaker, this Bill goes beyond what many people think of. This Bill is actually dangerous and because it is dangerous, I believe when we come to the Committee Stage, it is my view that this Bill should be shredded because it is not worth to be passed by people that were elected and sent to Parliament by people of Zimbabwe. If we genuinely believe that the prayer you do Madam Speaker every time when you come to this august House, if we are guided by such a prayer, there is no reason and justification why we the people’s representatives can actually come with a law that will criminalise and make life difficult for the people that we seek to represent. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Firstly, I would like to thank the General Secretary of ANC who spoke about the incident when the Americans wanted to arrest President Putin. Secondly, I would like to thank the President of Uganda who said that gays have no place in Africa.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chinotimba, may you debate the motion before the House.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Let me come to the Bill that is before this House. This Bill may hurt other people but it is a noble Bill with good intentions. The Bill encourages us to be patriotic about our country irrespective of our party affiliations. Even if Mr. Chamisa were to rule this country, it would not be proper for anyone to go around the world saying bad things about the President. This Bill is not meant to curtail the existence of political parties but it is there to encourage the people of Zimbabwe to love their country and stop denouncing it.
The Bill seeks to discourage those people who go about saying bad things about their country. Osama Bin Laden grew up in America and received his military training there and the reason why he was executed by the Americans is because he wanted to go against the ethos and values of the American people. As such, this Bill discourages all those people to say bad things about their country. The Bill wishes to impart a sense of belonging and love for one’s country. It pains me very much to hear some Hon. Members referring to Ian Smith’s regime as being better. On the contrary, Ian Smith detained a lot of political leaders in this country due to their push for one-man one-vote concept. A lot of people were incarcerated by Ian Smith – [HON. T. MLISWA: Makasungireyi Sikhala]- Keep quiet Hon. Mliswa, you were once a member of ZANU Party.
Madam Speaker, may you protect me because Hon. Members on your left do not want me to speak. This Bill is a welcome development because it seeks to discourage all those people who go out there and call for restrictive measures against our country. This Bill must pass at all cost, whether I remain a Member of this august House or not. The fact that I lost primary elections does not take away the love for my country. Anyone who says bad things against his country must be stopped by this Bill.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate. I applaud the Hon Chair of the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs in bringing up a report pregnant with a lot of consistent and very desirable ethos and values, in particular of patriotism and indeed of what the people said according to Section 141 of the Constitution that states that we need to make all parliamentary processes public. Indeed, we went out to the public, solicited views, came in, imbedded all the views and amalgamated them with the input from the esteemed Members of the Committee and I applaud the likes of Advocate Chinyanganya and Advocate Nyathi for guiding us legally in coming up with a holistic and well-rounded report of the Committee. Having said that, I am going to touch on a few ….
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Chinyanganya is not an advocate. The records must be clear. That title is way above. I think it is important not to say things which are not true. I do not know advocate Chinyanganya or advocate Nyathi. Maybe you can tell me who they are.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, is Hon. Chinyanganya an advocate?
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I am protected by Parliamentary Immunities and Privileges and I will not take kindly being questioned about what I say on this platform and further still, I am not going to be charged by….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are misleading people. If Hon Chinyanganya is not an advocate just say Hon. Chinyanganya.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I will stand guided by you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: If Hon. Chinyanganya is not an advocate, you cannot mislead the people saying advocate Chinyanganya. Just say Hon. Chinyanganya.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like to thank all Members of the Committee for a well-rounded report. I learn a lot from these learned colleagues of the Committee. Having said that, I just want to touch on a few issues which are very key and for those with no knowledge of what I want to talk about, they should record because I am going to say this only once. After that, it will appear in the Hansard, which is a permanent record of proceedings of Parliament. Madam Speaker, I have issues to deal with patriotism in particular, that have been stated eloquently and vociferously by the Hon. Chair of the Committee, which speak to the core and pith of the nationhood that we speak of. Issues to do with patriotism not only unite the country but they heal and unite in deed. This is what patriotism does. It can make somebody go to an extent of making sure they undergo a protracted liberation struggle in order to bring to the fore the values of the formally marginalised black majority as we speak about Zimbabwe. Some people in Zimbabwe, our liberators, went to war and never came back because of patriotism and it is right and correct for us to uphold the values of that patriotism by making sure that patriotism is inculcated into our day to day living or livelihood because of our forebears. I am alive to the people that were trained in North Korea to fight imperialism single handedly so that we could have the issue of patriotism ingrained in our hearts.
When it comes to patriotism, my heart is on the right side. Having said that, I also want to say that people may be better able to identify with their culture because of patriotism. So, it is indeed as a culture once we use this debate, to ensure that we embrace our culture because of patriotism. I am just talking about the advantages, ethos, and values of patriotism and what it is that can come out of patriotism. Patriotism also gives you the feeling of the community and this is what patriotism does. It is a good feeling because without patriotism, you are always angry. Angry not only against yourself but against the country that you come from and anger gnaws your vitals and that is not right.
Patriotism also does promote solidarity. You can see Hon. Sansole seated there and Hon. Biti seated there and that shows a sense of solidarity because of what joins us together, which is patriotism. Otherwise, we would not be seeing eye to eye. These are advantages and I will want them elaborated chronologically as I am putting them across.
Patriotism may give you a goal in life. Those that are not patriotic have no goals in life. If you have a goal, it means you can unleash your potential at any given opportunity or time. I mean what you were born clenching in your fist. When you then unleash your potential, it is called kinetic energy and when you release it, that is when you see yourself becoming the Elon Musk of our time, the Temba Mliswas of our time or the captains and pilots, first, second and third generation pilots of our time. Because you will have released your potential, you then become a better person because of patriotism. You may find many people Madam Speaker, with similar attitudes because of patriotism which makes you find one another. I have spoken about the issue to do with culture. Please Madam Speaker, protect me from doctor, protect me from less patriotic antics.
Patriotism also may promote senseful human values. Those people that are not patriotic definitely have no senseful values. So, I am both promoting the values of patriotism and also castigating the unpatriotic nature of those that do not have those values.
Nationalism may help to protect a country because nationalism is patriotism. I am going to touch on a few more ethos and values and advantages of patriotism, before I go on to the rape which arises from forced sexual intercourse without promoting the allowable ethos and values of conjugal rights, procreation and such like.
Number 9, it increases the value of the local population, that is patriotism …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DR. MAVETERA): You are left with five minutes.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I have just been speaking for 10 minutes and I am supposed to speak for 30 minutes. However, I am just going to try and compress my otherwise elaborate way of trying to inculcate the patriotism in the other Members who are not so patriotic. Having said that, they can also be beneficial for local firms.
HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: On a point of order. Can the Hon. Member be allowed five minutes more?
HON. MUNETSI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Thank you Hon. Moyo. You are not going to be disappointed.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, it is not yet up but I am sure, as soon as his time is up, you can then move for that.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, the issue of patriotism increases work ability and also the productivity of a workforce and workmanship. If you are not patriotic, you will always be in the streets trying to go against either your employer and/or either trying to have sloganeering against work ability and productivity. So patriotism keeps workers in the factory and increases productivity and work ability.
It is my thinking that there is also higher level of independence from other countries. If you are not patriotic, you will always be looking for solutions from other countries. I will give you an example. We have ubiquitous amounts of mineral wealth and the likes of Elon Musk are creating or are inventing in electric vehicles and we have lithium and rare earths that are used in space ships. Lithium is used for electric vehicle batteries, so we are not looking on the outside. We are looking internally in order to emancipate ourselves economically. We got independence, yes, but we want economic independence.
Here on number 10, it does say, any patriotic person looks for dependency from their own country and does not look for independence from other countries. Like has been seen from our other people that are not patriotic, always looking for solutions from without, instead of being introspective and looking from within.
The last issue that I want to talk about in terms of patriotism, it does also give you confidence levels and those improve with more patriotism within yourself and within your own country. What we need, because of our endowment with our natural resources, is issues to do with patriotism; confidence in our own culture, confidence in our own minerals; confidence in our own Second Republic, which has seen immensely the infrastructure development, the Hwange 7 and 8; the extraction and beneficiation of our mineral resources…
[Time Limit]
HON.PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Can the Hon. Member be allowed 10 minutes more to debate?
Hon. Nduna, having continued with the debate.
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Nduna. We have had an objection. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Order, Hon. Nduna, if there is an objection, we cannot allow you to continue but if there is no objection at all, then you continue.
HON. NDUNA: No, there was no objection and you guided us that I am going to continue after my time expires. That was your ruling. Do not transgress your own ruling.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, I am saying we can only be able to ask that question when you had finished. So according to our procedures, she had to ask after you had finished. That is why I had to tell her to repeat. If it was sufficing then I would not have let her to speak. Now there is an objection – [HON. NDUNA: There was no objection.] - Order, let me say if it is a question that is when we can deal with ‘Ayes’ and ‘noes’, immediately when we get an objection, you cannot proceed. I am sorry. – [HON. NDUNA: But Madam Speaker, mapindwa nei, avava ndeve opposition, tikaita zveopposition neruling party padebate hai flowi] - Order, Hon. Nduna, you can take your seat. – [HON. NDUNA: Hai flowi debate, tambenge tichi flowa mushe mushe. Ndozvamunoda?] - Order, Hon. Nduna. May you please take your seat Hon. Nduna.
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order. Thank you, Madam Speaker Ma’am. My point of order, I know there is only one time you are allowed to debate twice, that is in the Committee Stage. I request the indulgence of the whole House and indeed the Hon. Speaker in dealing vociferously and effectively and efficiently on the issue of rape as stated by the report of the Committee of Justice, which is where I intend to bolster my support for what is coming up. This is my point of order, that the 10 years that has been spoken about where there are no aggravated circumstances, becomes law and 20 years certainly becomes an issue that is allowed where there are aggravated circumstances. This is my prayer. If you indulge me, I will be able to deal with that point in two minutes exactly.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to add my voice to the motion on the patriotic Bill. I would want to state it clearly that if the Bill is going to be passed by this august House, it is going to be a shame to our nation because it is not well thought out. It is focused on emotive issues which need to be dealt with through other means, not through legislation.
I would want to quote the late Dr. Kaunda who wrote and who had a vision of what would happen to the nationalist movement after the attainment of independence in African states. The main issue that confronted the late first President of Zambia was that the nationalist movement was likely to turn against itself and become self-destructive if there were no new worthwhile goals after that attainment of independence. Dr. Kaunda said there is need for the nationalistic movement to come up with new goals, new well thought out objectives in order to avoid a situation which we are realising right now in Zimbabwe whereby the nationalistic movement is turning inward, fighting its own people. This is very dangerous and Dr. Kaunda cited a dictionary which says patriotism means zealous love for one’s own country. One’s love for his own country cannot be legislated. It is something that needs to be engendered by the Government. It is something that needs to be inculcated.
If you want people to love their country, if you want the citizens to love their country, there are things that the Government should put in place. If we are going to take the article written in 1963 by Dr. Kaunda, we are going to realise simple steps that Dr. Kaunda advised African States to say this is what you should do to inculcate the spirit of nationalism, the nationalism which is overzealous love for one’s country which says one would be prepared to die for his country. One should be prepared to defend the interest of his country, not something that we say you should not speak against the ills of your country. If there are governance ills, the citizens of Zimbabwe should be able to say this is wrong. If there is something that is not good, for example Madam Speaker, the recent amnesty by the President where rapists were released - it is something that every well-meaning Zimbabwean should condemn to see a rapist who is supposed to serve 20 years, like what Hon. Nduna was saying, being released even after serving one year. It is something that we should condemn. This is not against patriotism. These are the things that we should come here and legislate. We should not come here and say the Parliament should legislate this kind of law where we are stifling the democratic space for Zimbabweans.
The other thing that I want to talk about is that Dr. Kaunda said if you want to inculcate the spirit of nationalism especially among the youth, you should also give them space. If you try to stifle the spates for the youth, he said they would easily be agitated and they revolt against the Government. The revolts that we see in other countries are because the governments are coming up with draconian laws. As a result, people would take the route of the proverbial lepers in the Bible who would say if we do not go; if we do not fight we are going to die, so it is better we die fighting. We are actually inviting the people - the Zimbabweans to rise up against the Government to say if the Government is coming up with this kind of legislation, we need to fight for our own rights the same way they fought the liberation struggle against colonialists. This is the same way we can now steer up another struggle.
Madam Speaker, I believe this kind of law is not good. I thought I should refer to Dr. Kaunda who said we should also consider sports as part of nation building. He said patriotism comes up to avoid exhausted nationalism. We need to come up with new ideas, we need to come up with new goals, we need to promote sports, we need to promote our culture but not in a manner where we say if Hon. Hamauswa comes here and complains that what is happening in Warren Park where Warren Hills is being extracted and the people of Warren Park are not benefiting, if I complain about the gold mafia in this country, then people will say I am fighting my own country. I am actually fighting for the country to say it is unheard of to go for three months after discovering diamonds.
The people who are looting our resources are those who are not patriotic. The people who are looting our diamonds are those who are not patriotic. The people who are failing to bring electricity to our homes are the people who are not patriotic. The people who break the law willy-nilly, those are people who are not patriotic. Madam Speaker, I think we need to strengthen the implementation of the existing laws within our country. We have the financial management laws that actually guide how public funds should be managed. Those laws just need to be implemented. We do not need another law. We do not need to have this draconian law.
I think Madam Speaker, this current Government wants to call itself a second republic. This Government is known as the second republic, meaning there was a first republic and there were certain roles that were there in the first republic. We cannot go back to the first republic through the back door. We are going through a reform process which requires a multi stakeholder dialogue which does not require again draconian laws. We have repealed AIPPA and POSA. What we need in this country is to say how can we refine the laws that we are reforming, how can we refine the law reform process, how can we align the laws according to the 213 Constitution and how can we make it perfect. We do not need to come up with another draconian law. When we come back here in September after the elections, we do not need the burden to start again the law reform. Let us do the right thing for Zimbabweans. Let us do the things that our people in this country will also hold us accountable, to say that we have done something that is good for this country.
Madam Speaker, I will conclude by saying we need laws that will put back the powers to the people of Zimbabwe. We do not need any law that takes powers from the citizens of Zimbabwe. We do not need a law that will say if a Zimbabwean complains about mismanagement of resources then that person is against Zimbabwe. The person who pushes for good governance in our country is a person who is patriotic Madam Speaker. A person who says Zimbabwe should not be regarded as a pariah state, that person is patriotic. A person who says our sports should not be banned is a person who is patriotic. A person who would want to see a dream team again in our national team, that person is patriotic. A person who would say no to political violence, a person who would say ZEC should correct the voters roll in a manner that is according to the Constitution, that is a person who is patriotic. We do not need this kind of law. I think we are learned enough in this country. We should not again shame the people of Zimbabwe by bringing a legislation that will actually downgrade the minds of great lawyers who are in this country, the minds of great engineers that are in this country.
Madam Speaker, I implore this country and legislators of this great nation, to read the chapter by Dr. Kaunda how to transform nationalism into patriotism. He actually said during nationalistic days that people would destroy police posts, people would use violence for the purpose of attaining independence but upon attaining independence, those methods which you were using, they are not applicable in a post-colonial State. We are now in a post-colonial State and we do not need to apply colonial rules. They do not have space in this new era.
This is why I am saying this Bill should not see the light of the day because it is not in any way promoting patriotism. This Bill will promote uprising in this country because it is going to stifle democratic space. People have their constitutionally guaranteed rights. The right to speak out is guaranteed and the freedom of speech is in the Constitution. Those rights should be protected. We should not destroy them through a back door. It is my plea that my friends to the right side are going to reconsider the provisions in the Bill which are meant to stifle democratic space in this country. Thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Chairman of the Justice Legal Committee for doing a sterling job by bringing a motion which is subject to a vigorous debate. I was looking at the Constitution of Zimbabwe in terms of the Preamble and I have tried to look for the word ‘patriotic’ and the word ‘nationalism’ or ‘nationalist’. I still do not see them. We, the people of Zimbabwe, united in our diversity of our common desire for freedom, justice and equality and our heroic resistance to colonialism, racism and all forms of domination and oppression.
You went on to talk about the liberation struggle which talks about exalting and stalling the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives during the Chimurenga, Umvukela and National Liberation Struggle. I am glad that we have got comrades who were in ZIPRA and ZANLA. Hon. Nguluvhe who is here was ZIPRA. ZIPRA went to the war to liberate this country and so did ZANLA. The commander for ZIPRA was Nikita Mangena and the commander for ZANLA was Josiah Tongogara; all Zimbabweans in the interest of this country.
If you look at Google and look at nationalism, it talks about national interest. If you go to Google and look at patriotism, it talks about being devoted vigorously to a nation. Some of the national people like Ndabaningi Sithole were arrested but they were nationalists. ZIPRA, Dumiso Dabengwa and Lookout Masuku were the first to be incarcerated after independence but they fought for this country. Who incarcerated them – it was ZANLA? I speak about this because my father was ZAPU. That is where we were born in Zambia.
So, to me, it is important that we question and the question is –[HON. MATARANYIKA: Inaudible interjection]- Chairman, I think this is your debate and it is only proper that you behave appropriately or you are behaving unpatriotic and I am nationalist by not giving you a chance. These are the people who we do not need to bring a law but once you are unpatriotic, you can be kicked out of here without a law rather than you bringing a law. I think it is about time you respect this debate. You are the Chairman of the Committee and what you are doing is not good.
Madam Speaker, so you have got ZANLA and ZIPRA going to war for national interest to liberate the country. So, who is qualified to call the other one a nationalist and a patriot? Why did ZANU PF believe it had deranged and they continue with that brutality bringing this law in this House? The only thing ZANU PF is known for is massacre. Gukurahundi, it did it. This is an emotional issue. There must be a Commission of Inquiry to deal with ZANU PF people who led Gukurahundi.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DR. MAVETERA): You are out of order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: Because this is a very critical point…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Mliswa. Let us try to confine ourselves to the debate. You give examples but let us try to confine ourselves and not to try raise emotional issues.
HON. T. MLISWA: You cannot kill other people in a country and you want to woo the people who kill other innocent people. This should be very clear. Did you not hear of Gukurahundi? Where are those people who spearheaded Gukurahundi? Are they nationalistic, are they patriotic? They went and killed the people who were patriotic and nationalists. Gukurahundi is a fact. Let it not pain you because you were probably not part of the struggle. This is emotional…
THE TEMPORY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I said do not use offensive language.
HON. T. MLISWA: Which offensive language have I used and I withdraw.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, we have got different political parties in this House and for you to come and accuse another political party and being offensive, that is very disrespectful. Order, can you leave the House Hon. Mliswa, leave the House!
HON. T. MLISWA: But you cannot kick me out – did Gukurahundi not happen under ZANU PF? So, why remove me from the House for telling the truth? What is the purpose of this House if we are not able to debate on issues of national interest? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]- You are kicking me out of the House for bringing the issue of Gukurahundi, are you serious about that?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you please leave the House. Serjeant-at-Arms, can you please help us.
HON. T. MLISWA: So now you want me out because I spoke about Gukurahundi? Who are you serving – what you are doing is unpatriotic, unnationalistic, barbaric for the party you belong to? I leave knowing that you have done the biggest mistake. I present national issues here. My father was in Zambia and he was ZAPU. What you have done is wrong, you want to appease the President, you hope to become the next Speaker by bootlicking, what you are doing is unpatriotic. You started Gukurahundi because you are sitting on that chair…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can you switch off the microphone Serjeant-at-Arms?
HON. T. MLISWA: You started Gukurahundi because you are sitting on that Chair, it does not mean that you will take our rights. I represent the people, this is tax payers money you are using by refusing all that. You cannot abuse taxpayers’ money by telling me to leave the House; was Gukurahundi not an act of ZANU PF? Why have you decided to be stifled…
The Serjeant-at-Arms approached Hon. T. Mliswa in a bid to escort him out but he refused to leave the House and continued debating.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MAVETERA): Serjeant-at-Arms, you are letting us down, we do not need this noise in this House. Serjeant-at-Arms, can you please do your job. We cannot have this noise in this House.
HON. T. MLISWA: I do not mind if I am sent out of this Parliament. I can go home for good. What you have done is unpatriotic and it is wrong – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Gukurahundi happened under ZANU PF. Who are you trying to appease? You are getting allowances out of that… – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Munetsi, can you please switch off the microphone for us.
Microphone switched off.
HON. T. MLISWA: No, she cannot do this, she cannot do this.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Why are we being abused like this?
Hon. T. Mliswa continued to debate after the microphones were switched off.
HON. T. MLISWA: Was Gukurahundi not an act of ZANU PF? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: This is getting out of hand – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. T. MLISWA: Unoda kuti ndidzingwe muParliament hausi Speaker. Hunzai mapurisa handisi kubuda nhasi, hunzai mapurisa endai munotora Leader of Government Business. Gukurahundi was an act of ZANU PF. Why do you want to support him? It was an act of ZANU PF and those people who were involved in Gukurahundi, there must be a commission of inquiry, what they did was unpatriotic – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Handisi kubuda nhasi huyai imika kuno uku. We cannot have a Parliament when one is honest wakudzingwa. Ndinodzingirwa chii? Madam Speaker, if the seat is too hot, do not sit there. It is hot, I am telling you. Ko ndinoburitsirwei? Gukurahundi haina kuitwa neZANU PF here? Hamuzvizivi here? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Ndamboti First kana Second Republic here, chii chakunetsai. That is a fact murikundidzingira izvovo. Ngaanotora mapurisa vambomhanyamhanya, handisi kubuda nhasi. Chii chamungandiita, hapana mutemo unondidzinga muParliament. Hatiwaste tax payers money tichiuya kuno muchindidzinga kuti ndadii, handibvume izvozvo ndirikuita basa renyika. We are talking about the Patriotic Bill. ZIPRA does not have its farms as of to date, is that patriotism? Makati vatengesa mukati Gamatox Amai Mujuri vatengesa, E.D mukamudzinga mukati atengesa, haasi mapatriots here ivava? Is E.D. not patriotic, is Mai Mujuru not patriotic. E.D. akadzingwa neZANU PF, is he not patriotic? You want to bring your caucus Bills so that you settle your differences. We do not need this institution to come up with laws to settle personal scores, it is not for that.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: We are suspending business of the House for the next 10 minutes.
Business was suspended at 1611 hours and resumed at 1614 hours.
HON. NYAMUDEZA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. NYAMUDEZA: Hon. Makoni spoke about Gukurahundi earlier on before Hon. T. Mliswa but the Hon. Member was not asked to leave Parliament. It is surprising that Hon. T. Mliswa spoke about the same issue and he is now being asked to go out, why?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You brought a good point. Hon. T. Mliswa is not being chased because of the Gukurahundi issue. He is being asked to go out because he was insulting other political parties, that is unparliamentary – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I advise the Hon. Member that if he did not hear him properly, I kindly request you to refer to the Hansard tomorrow. Everything will be recorded accurately in the Hansard. What we do in this House is done in an orderly manner. Thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to thank you for recognising me and also to add my voice to the report by the Hon. Chair of the Committee of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I found this Bill very progressive Madam Speaker Ma’am because patriotism and nationalism are very important, especially in nation building. The Patriotic Bill is very important and also not new to Zimbabwe. In the United States of America Madam Speaker Ma’am, they came up with the United States Patriotic Act in 1917 and the Act is still there. The current President of the United States of America, Joe Biden supports this Act and every Senator in the United States of America voted in favour of the Bill which led to this Act.
When we talk of a Patriotic Bill Madam Speaker Ma’am, it is very important for people in a given State to respect their sovereignty, territorial integrity and self-determination. As Zimbabweans, we want to support the crafting of this Bill and also the clauses associated with it. The Bill is also against those people who sell-out on their independence. We have seen a number of our Zimbabwean countrymen who have gone out to call for sanctions on Zimbabwe and that is unpatriotic for those individuals to go to the United States of America and western capitals to call upon foreign States to impose sanctions on Zimbabwe; that is tantamount to espionage Madam Speaker Ma’am, where you sell secrets of your own country; where you take information and give foreigners, strangers of what obtains in your own country. This is terrible, such behaviour must be punishable. I want to move that people must be imprisoned for not less than 20 years for being unpatriotic.
This Act also is against people who practice balkanisation and by balkanisation Madam Speaker Ma’am, I am talking of people who go out to other countries and recruit youngsters for purposes of invading their own State. Balkanisation is an act of terror because when one is not patriotic, that person becomes a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who instils fear upon other people or practices certain acts that will lead to fear being affected by or being instilled on fellow countrymen. We want this Bill to be enacted to become an Act of Parliament.
Also associated with this Bill are progressive clauses such as the issue of rape Madam Speaker Ma’am, whereby some people rape minors or force themselves on women or men. Rape can be perpetrated by women but in the majority of cases, it is the men who take the lead in rape. I want to support the report by the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs that sentences should start from 15 to 20 years. I also want to submit Madam Speaker Ma’am that castration is another option in addition to the imprisonment that is being proposed here.
The issue of drugs Madam Speaker Ma’am is also very important in this Bill. Quite a number of people are profiteering from drug abuse. People use those porous boarders to bring in cocaine and so on and those musombodhia and that has affected the majority of our youths who are partaking in these drugs. It is a generation that is being destroyed. So, we need to come up with these pieces of legislation that will make it criminal for anyone who is seen manufacturing or selling those drugs and must be imprisoned.
In Zimbabwe, we have seen some “industrialists”, or those people who are manufacturing these drugs being imprisoned. So this is a progressive Bill that will need a unanimous support of everyone across the political divide. Madam Speaker Ma’am, I so submit. Thank you.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Madam Speaker for giving me the opportunity to debate on the report that was presented by the Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs on this Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Amendment Bill. I have just been going through the clauses in the proposed Bill. There are actually four of them and going through the four clauses, I think that three of the clauses are those I could consider patriotic in my view.
Clause One just talks about the title of the Bill but Clause 3, which is the second one talks about the clause that will amend Section 65 of the Principal Act to put 15 years as the minimum mandatory sentence for rape. There has been widespread concern over the rising incidents of heinous crimes of sexual violence and rape and it has been seen fit that more deterrent measures be put in place to stamp out the crime. I fully support this proposed amendment and believe that crimes of sexual nature …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! May you be connected Hon. Molokele, may you please connect!
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Madam Speaker, I am sorry I had not connected. I was saying that I fully endorse Clause 3 because it will add weight to the ongoing fight to gender equality in this country in terms of the 2013 Constitution of this country. We know that crimes of sexual are on the rise in this country. We know that 43 years after Independence, women continue to experience, every day, gender-based violence and of sexual nature. So it is very important for Parliament of Zimbabwe to enact laws that help our judiciary to make sure that those offenders of sexually related or criminal offences are seen to be facing justice.
To date, public opinion is clear that a lot of these sexual offenders or criminals who conduct offences of a sexual nature are getting away with that. One of the concerns is that the laws have been too lax, they have been relaxed, giving too much leeway and at the end of the day, we have seen some of these perpetrators getting away with murder. Parliament of Zimbabwe is doing the right thing, to tighten the screws to make it harder for every one of these prospective criminals. In the process, Parliament of Zimbabwe is helping the fight to promote gender equality in this country because no woman can feel equal to any man as long as they are exposed daily to all forms of sexual crime. I fully support the efforts of Parliament. As a He-for-She champion, I am very excited and very happy and we pray that as Parliament of Zimbabwe, we continue to find ways to support our judiciary to ensure that all forms of crimes of a sexual nature are obliterated from this country and the end goal being to promote gender equality so that women are equal citizens in this country.
I want to turn to Clause 4. I also support this clause and it seeks to amend Section 155 of the principal Act on the definition of the dangerous drugs to include prepared opium, prepared cannabis resin and a schedule of drugs. It further adds the definition of industrial hemp. This clause is also most welcome. Everyone is aware that in this country we have seen a serious vice in terms of drug abuse. Our youths everyday are exposed to drug abuse. As Parliament of Zimbabwe, it is our duty to make sure that we enact legislation that adapt to the ever-growing concern. We are losing a lot of our people in this country, especially our young people to drugs. As Parliament of Zimbabwe, it is our duty to make sure that we pass laws that will make it easier for the judiciary to join this fight against drug abuse, especially against drug dealers.
It is important that we also look at this list because it is updating the types of drugs that are exposed in this country. My only concern is that we need to find ways to include – I do not know maybe it is English, I did not see things like nyaope and so on that are harassing our people at the moment. A lot of these drugs that are popular, we need to double check the list to make sure it is very comprehensive. The most popular drugs that are being abused in this country, especially if you consult amongst the young people of Zimbabwe, they will tell you the drugs that are giving us a headache. It is important for Parliament to pass new laws that tighten the screws around this concern. Drugs can ruin the nation and our young people’s future is at stake. We need to do something and Parliament of Zimbabwe is doing the right thing.
I also endorse Clause 5 which seeks to amend Section 174 of the principal Act. The current framing of the offence of criminal abuse of office as provided for in terms of Section 174 (i) is very broad in its scope and that gives room for public officers to be prosecuted for honest mistakes made during the course of their duties. Hence the amendment will limit the crime to include the essential element of knowledge on the part of a public official that his or her conduct was illegal. I think it is very important that we add this to our legislature because it helps us to fight the scourge of corruption in this country. We want our civil servants, our public officials to conduct themselves in the most dignified and respectable manner to avoid any form of corruption. Where we find an instance where they did not willfully do that and mistakenly did so, they need to be protected by the law. Some of them have got a lot of experience and in our civil service, we find some of the most patriotic Zimbabweans who could by virtue of their skills, qualifications or experience leave the country anytime but they continue to work under the most difficult social economic conditions. Such a person can be lost out of a genuine mistake. So it is important that we enact such kind of laws that help to protect them in such kind of situations and to make sure that our public officials do not go into a situation where they are deemed as criminals when they are not necessarily intending to be criminal in terms of intention. I am happy with Clause 5. I am just desperate to see if there is any way we can protect our public officials or civil servants so that they can work freely in this country and support the development agenda of Zimbabwe.
Last but not least, Clause 2, this is the clause that I have a lot of difficulties with. Clause 2 is that one that inserts a new section, Section 22 (a) of the principal Act. Our constitutional order of Zimbabwe that is based on Parliamentary Democracy affords many avenues for aggrieved citizens to redress their wrong internally, including against the State. It is therefore improper for citizens and residents of Zimbabwe by recourse to foreign countries, to seek to implement measures that undermine our sovereignty, dignity and independence as a nation. This clause will criminalise such conduct.
It is very important for us as an august House to make sure that we uphold our responsibility to promote all the intentions of the 2013 Constitution which is a homegrown Constitution that was adopted through National Referendum. It has one of the most progressive Bill of Rights in all of the Constitutions in the world comparable to the one of South Africa, the 1996 Constitution of South Africa. We, as Zimbabweans, are very proud to have such an expansive Bill of Rights among whose rights that it promotes its freedom of expression, freedom assembly, freedom of association. These are sacrosanct rights that we as Zimbabweans must promote knowing that out of our colonial experience from 1890 to 1980, as the majority of Zimbabweans we were never afforded such kind of rights. We were treated as subjects. We were not treated as citizens.
One of the grounds of the liberation struggle was freedom. Freedom for everyone, whether white or black. In this country, 43 years after independence, it is important for this august House to make sure that whenever such a piece of legislation comes into the House, it passes that test of freedom. We are not supposed to reduce it into a political discourse. We are always supposed to make sure that it remains a national discourse. It should not be a law for the short-term gain. It should be a law for the long-term gain. It should be a law that should stand the test of time, whether there will be a Second Republic, a Third Republic, a Fourth Republic, a Tenth Republic, such law will remain strong and respected by all generations of Zimbabweans as a law that upholds freedom and democracy.
When we enact a law that seeks to promote patriotism, we need to be very clear that any form of emotional overtone informed by the current political discourse are not supposed to be the guiding principles. What should inform us are aspirations of the liberation struggle, freedom being the foundation of our hopes and expectations from each and everyone of the parliamentarians here. Freedom is a very powerful word. It gives you the capacity to dream and it gives you the capacity to hope. At the end of the day, if citizens of Zimbabwe feel unfree, feel restrained and constrained, Zimbabwe has no future.
I have a big problem with this clause. The first one is that it tries to reduce the definition of patriotism into a political discourse. Patriotism must never be reduced into a political discourse where if I do not agree with this certain political perspective, then I am seen as an unpatriotic person. This is ridiculous. It is manifestly unconstitutional. It is prima facie violating the Constitution that we, as Zimbabweans, in 2013 afforded to say that we want to promote freedom of expression in this country. We want to promote freedom of association in this country. We want to promote freedom of movement in this country and then we go and enact a law that makes it personal to resolve opinion through a criminal offence. Each Zimbabwean is entitled to have a different opinion from the next Zimbabwean and if we try to create this law, we will fall into danger of repeating the previous mistakes. We have made a lot of mistakes since 1980.
Let me give you examples. In 1982, liberation war Dumiso Dabengwa and Lookout Masuku were arrested. They were detained several times repeatedly. In the context of this law, they would have been defined as unpatriotic. In the context of this law, if you read it properly, they were going to be criminally found guilty according to this proposed law. We all know that in 1986, 1987 negotiations occurred between ZAPU and ZANU PF and a few years later, Dumiso Dabengwa was a Member of Parliament. A few years later, Dumiso Dabengwa was a Minister of this country, the same person that could have been a criminal in terms of this law.
So, what we are saying is, yes, it is good that we have the authority to pass laws but it is bad for us to abuse that authority and use the current political discourse because tomorrow, it could be you. Life changes, tables turn. Ian Smith lived to see the new Zimbabwe. Ian Smith was in this House for seven years after independence when he said there will not be any black majority rule in this country for 1000 years. Ian Smith died having seen the black majority rule.
The laws that they passed; the Law and Order Maintenance Act, among other most repressive laws were the laws that he witnessed after independence. So, tomorrow it could be you. You are a Minister under the ZANU PF Government, tomorrow you are in opposition under the opposition ZANU PF. Life can change, tables can turn, so do not use the political discourse to create a law that is meant for generations to come. Fifty years from now there might not be a CCC or ZANU PF just like there is no PF ZAPU. What I am trying to saying is, let us not make the mistake of passing laws that focus on the current political situation that we have. Let us create laws that will make us proud even 100 years from now and laws that promote freedom.
With this clause, I am very unhappy also that it does not take time to define terms that are likely to be abused for political discourse. I propose that Section 22 (a) which talks about willful injury and the sovereignty and national interest of Zimbabwe, subsection (1) where it says “in this section, it defines active partake, agent or proxy or entity, economic sanctions or trade boycott and meeting” but I think we should add new definitions. It should define sovereignty, what is sovereignty? Let us add a definition of “sovereignty” on an objective test level.
Let us also define what "national interest” is and another word “patriotism” so that if this same law is passed and goes into the Judiciary or court of law, we will not make it difficult for the judges. They should be able to have an objective test. So, I am proposing that we insert definitions of patriotism, sovereignty, national interest and even nationalism. Let us make sure that even if the ruling party is now CCC, it is still standard definition, not personal. That is what I am proposing.
Also, I wanted to say something about the Zimbabweans who are living outside the country. Instead of using Parliament to enact laws that make it difficult for them to participate in our democracy, we must enact laws that make it easier for Zimbabweans. The population of Zimbabweans who are living outside the country is now into millions. We need them, they are part of us and wherever they go they remain Zimbabweans. Our laws must be crafted in such a way that if I am a Zimbabwean who lives in London today and I have an opinion about what is happening about Zimbabwe, it should not be at risk of being criminalized.
I am having problems with this clause because it should have been an opportunity to include the diaspora community to participate in the national discourse. Let us use this clause to explain how Zimbabweans who are living outside the country can also play a role in contributing to the national development of our country instead of manifestly criminalizing their participation because one of the key components. I am worried about the fact that they are using this situation where someone speaks on an international platform and maybe a Zimbabwean who lives in London, they are invited to speak about what is happening or your views about your country, and the next time they want to apply for a passport they are told you are not a patriotic Zimbabwean.
This is someone who loves their country. They can get citizenship of the British or American people but they are maintaining the Zimbabwean passport and citizenship because they went to U.K because of social economic reasons, not political reasons. Back in Harare, they are deemed as a criminal and unpatriotic. Next time they come with their children or family to visit Victoria Falls, they are arrested at the airport and told you are a criminal because you are not patriotic. This is a very ridiculous law. I am urging all Members of the House, both the ruling party and opposition, to take a second look at this clause and make sure that it is not passed the way it is.
In my other life, I am a trained lawyer and one thing I wanted to say, there is no way the court of law can allow such a manifestly unconstitutional clause which is too broad for interpretation to pass through. So, we must take time and the Committee must take time to make sure that they tighten this clause and make sure that the new definitions are added so that it is not prone to political abuse but it is used to promote national development.
HON. BITI: This is a very short Bill that is speaking only to four issues. The first issue which I will end last are the amendments to Sections 20, 21 and 22 of the Criminal Procedure which deal with crimes against the State; the imposition and expansion of treason and sabotage and of course, the extension of penalties to those that are allegedly unpatriotic. The second issue pertains to the imposition of mandatory sentences for rape. The third issue pertains to the expansion of the definition of what are dangerous drugs and lastly, the amendments dealing with the issue of abuse of office in an attempt to curtail the wide definition of abuse of office.
I want to dispose two, three and four very quickly. We support the proposed amendments to Section 138 of the Code which seeks to limit the wide expanse of Section 138, the definition of abuse of office. I want to support members who recognized that civil servants exercise a lot of discretion and often times that discretion is exercised in good faith bona fide but sometimes it turns out that the beneficiary of that discretion abuses that. It does not criminalise the officer and the officer should not be frozen in a situation where he cannot even breathe because fear of breathing makes it a criminal offence.
I remember many years ago, the then Assistant Commissioner Chihuri was prosecuted for exercising a discretion against the non-prosecution of a certain person. The matter went all the way to the Supreme Court and Justice McNally issued a judgement that said, ‘if a person holds power, he must exercise discretion and all discretion should be criminalized’. So, we support that. I have seen prosecutors freezing failing to exercise common sense for fear of abusing their office and therefore, prosecuted in terms of Section 138. So, we support that.
We also very quickly support the proposed amendments to do with drugs. Drugs are evolving. When I grew up, the only drug that was an issue which was prepared commonly known as mbanje, now you have got all kinds of things, there is heroin and cocaine that is being smoked in this country. I want to apologise to those who take this because some of these drugs are not smoked, they are taken intravenously. There is guka, mutoriro vana vari kustika Madam Speaker Ma’am. So, we need to deal with the scourge of drugs, we need to expand.
If you go to court 14, there is a prosecutor there called Tsokota. All he does is prosecute people for crystal meth. It has got a complicated scientific name which I cannot pronounce otherwise ndinonyadzisira but the fact of the matter is that we need to expand the definition, we need criminal penalties.
My only problem with the current proposal is that we are only dealing with the small fish, the small fish that is selling or buying but there are real drug dealers selling drugs in the Avenues and so forth. So we need provisions that seek to deal with the supply lines of drugs. Unless and until we deal with the supply lines of drugs, we have a problem.
The third issue is the issue of rape. Here we seek to impose severe mandatory penalties for rape committed in aggravated circumstances. Rape is terrible; it is an invasion of human rights. I would argue that rape is the ultimate form of invasion. Therefore, it deserves a harsh penalty. However, having said that, we must trust the courts, the courts right now, if you read the newspapers, have been imposing stern measures, for 15 years, 14 years. We need to trust the courts by not imposing laws that restrict their hands.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, Section 61 of the Constitution says a person is entitled to a fair trial that involves the examination of the question of criminal liability and the question of the sentence. A court must be able to investigate the two issues, one of liability – is this person culpable and also the issue of the penalty? A law must not tie the hands of the adjudicator, the Judge, to simply look at conviction without also looking at the appropriate penalty. The Judge or magistrate must also be allowed to look at the appropriate penalty and if these judges are well trained surely they will understand that rape is a vicious crime and we need to impose a vicious penalty.
I have a problem personally with mandatory penalties because they mistrust the judiciary, they tie the hands of the judiciary. Madam Speaker, now, internationally, mandatory penalties have been questioned as being unconstitutional because they tie the hands of the adjudicator. There is a case in Uganda called the Case of Alice Kigula. That case dealt with the imposition of a mandatory sentence of death in a case of capital punishment and the Ugandan Constitutional Court held that the imposition of a mandatory penalty is unconstitutional because it ties the hand of the adjudicator, the judge. The Executive is interfering with judicial independence, judges must look at both the sentence and the penalty. So, I would submit that we should trust the Judiciary, we should give them guidelines. They are already imposing, there is a judgment by Justice Ziyambi where a rapist was given 30 years. So even that which we are talking about now is behind.
The Kigula Case was actually followed in Malawi in the case of State versus Kafantayeni which also held that mandatory penalties are unconstitutional. So, I submit Madam Speaker, through the Minister of Justice that let us trust the courts. Let us not impose mandatory penalties because they have got the unfair issue of tying the hands of the judiciary. Perhaps the judge wanted to impose 30 years and you are saying 15 years, trust the judiciary.
Let me now come to the controversial issue. Madam Speaker, Zimbabwe is broken and polarised. We speak across each other, we sprinkle tangential to each other. Forty-four (44) years after independence, we have failed to craft a common vision. We have failed to craft common ethos that unite us as a people. We have failed to answer the national question, what does it mean to be a Zimbabwean? We all have different answers. Hon. Molokela from Hwange will have a different discourse on what it means to be a Zimbabwean particularly if you come from a so-called minority tribe. What does it mean to be Nambya, a Tonga, a Hlongwe, Shangani in Zimbabwe? We have different narratives because the train of independence treated us differently.
Madam Speaker, if you look at social media, the levels of toxicity and intolerance are huge, and the levels of chasms are huge. We are as close to Rwanda in 1994 as we have ever been because of these huge chasms of intolerance and indifference.
The Constitution says we are united in our diversity but the challenge is that we have not been able to handle our differences well. We have weaponised our differences and the consistent history of this country has been a history of failure. A history of failure in managing differences. The first Chimurenga of 1896 was a reflection of a failure to manage differences between the white settler and those of us who were here, our forefathers. The struggles that happened in the forties where the likes of Benjamin Burombo ended up in colonial prisons were a by-product of failure to manage differences. The Land Apportionment Act of 1931 and the imposition of the Apartheid State of Rhodesia was a reflection of the failure to manage our difference.
Gukurahundi, 1982 to 1987, 20 000 to 30 000 people were killed is the highest expression of failure to manage our differences. The clean-up operation Murambatsvina of 2005 was yet again a failure of our inability to manage differences. The violence of 2008 in which thousands were displaced, in which men were killed in places like Chaona in Mashonaland Central, and places like Headlands, again was a failure to manage our difference.
We have spent the last 44 years at each other’s throats. Right now, we are about to go into another election and every average Zimbabwean dreads an election because an election represents the highest expression of failure to manage our difference. When we fail to manage our difference, that is happening because we have never been able to talk to each other, we have never been able to dialogue.
Hon. Hamauswa quoted the Chapter of Kenneth Kaunda’s biography written in 1964. What Kenneth Kaunda wrote in 1964, Frantz Fanon had written 10 years before in his book, the Wretched of the Earth Chapter 4, the Pitfalls of National Consciousness. In the Pitfalls of National Consciousness, Frantz Fanon speaks about the inability of what he calls the comrades of accommodation and dialogue. What this nation needs is national healing, national reconciliation, dialogue, a new consensus, and recalibration of the national question. What is the national question, I come from Binga, what does it mean? Am I a Zimbabwean? If you go to certain parts of Matabeleland, right now, 44 years after Independence, the people are alienated. They feel like they are fourth class citizens of this country because Independence came like a whirlwind and left them. What we need are things that bring us together and not things that divide us apart. This particular provision divides us apart. After all, it is totally unnecessary and fictious because everything it seeks to do is already criminalised.
If you go outside and call for a war or sabotage against your country, the law already provides that in Section 20, 21 and 22. Treason is a crime in Zimbabwe. Sabotage is a crime in Zimbabwe. The only thing new that is sought to be criminalised is what is to be perceived words of mouth. There is no individual who is more powerful than the Government. There is no individual who can successfully call for sanctions, it is not possible. It is a myth. It is fiction. It does not happen. Governments are independent and they function on their own. This provision is totally unnecessary and divisive.
Hon. Minister Ziyambi has just come from Cairo where there was a round table conference on Zimbabwe’s debt. A lot of progress has been made. This kind of provision undoes that progress. The kind of provision that we incorporated in the Private Voluntary Organisations Amendment Act undoes that progress because they paint and portray us as an extractive, vicious and intolerant country. I submit that we need to convert these vicious cycles of conflict and indifference, cycles of violence like Gukurahundi and cycles of extraction that 44 years after Independence, we have one broadcasting station called ZBC. I was watching it on Sunday, the ZBC is still fighting a war that finished in 1979. ZBC divides us upon those who went to war and those who did not go to war. It is a false ideology. Going to war cannot be a licence for any entry. What about those of us who were too young to go to war.
We cannot function on a false liberation mindset, a false liberation mindset that operates on three things like entitlement – we are entitled to this because we fought in the war. That operates on impunity – we can get away with anything because we fought in the war. That operates on Messianic complex – if we cannot get it, no one else can get it. In the Solomonic parable, it is the mindset of that woman that says let us cut the baby in half. Our country is suffering because of three issues, entitlement, impunity and scorched earth approach. It cannot work. We need love.
To quote President Mugabe in 1980, let us turn the bullets and guns into ploughs to move our country forward. I would submit that let us convert these vicious cycles of conflict and indifference into virtuous rainbow cycles of inclusion. Clause 3 certainly does not do that. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. First of all, I want to thank the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Justice for the report and the contributions that he gave and the Committee. I also want to thank the Hon. Members who debated. By and large, the report by the Committee was very progressive indeed and the issues that we have raised, we have taken note of. I will not get into details about their report.
I also want to thank Hon. Mushoriwa for the debate. I do not see him here. He stood up to debate and his was just a debate to make a political statement. I did not pick anything that was specifically related to contents of the Bill like what other Hon. Members did. I also want to thank Hon Chinotimba, he was very supportive particularly on one clause of the Bill, he spoke passionately about it. That is very progressive. I also want to thank Hon. Nduna. Allow me to thank Hon. Molekele, he debated clause by clause and I must say that today he is one of the few who spoke about the Bill. His debate focused on issues that were in the Bill. I want to thank him because he focused on issues that were in the Bill, whether he was supporting or not but his debate was focused on issues that were in the Bill.
He spoke about the mandatory sentence which he believed is a progressive clause. He spoke about the issue of drugs, that is Clause 4 and his issue was that we must broaden it. I agree that this issue is an evolving one where we need to be alert and include species of drugs so that we can protect our society. I agree that as we get more information, if we find a way of ensuring that perhaps in regulations, we change the definition of dangerous drugs as they evolve, that would be very helpful because the issue of drugs has ripped through our society. It is something that is cause for concern.
He also spoke about the issue of criminal abuse of office, again the intention in coming up with this amendment, this is one of the most abused laws in our statutes. If you want to charge somebody with bribe and if you fail to find essential elements to satisfy the crime of bribe, you just say criminal abuse of office and you arraign them to court. Most of the time these are innocent civil servants who were trying to serve their country and they would find themselves being constrained and not allowed to use their discretion. So, we want to bring in that element that allows the prosecution to show that they had the intention to do that and benefit out of their action. I agree and I want to support that.
He went on to speak about Clause 2 where he believed that this clause infringes on freedom of expression. He was very passionate about encouraging this august House not to pass this Bill, I do not agree with that. The intention really is, we had to broaden this particular section of our Code because we believed, as alluded to by Hon Biti, that we must engage each other and be able to differ but in a manner that does not injure the sovereignty of our nation. Even though we are in argument, sometimes it is not necessary to call for sanctions against your own country because those sanctions will not only affect those that you think you are targeting, but the generality of the population. We have all experienced it, even Hon. Members no matter which party you belong to. If you want to open an account somewhere, they will start referring to those sanctions and it becomes a very difficult situation. We are simply saying that those who go out there to discuss issues that will injure the sovereignty of their own country and not just have a general discussion but there are certain discussions where you now want to persuade foreign governments to put measures that will injure your country. That becomes dangerous and that is what we are talking about. By and large, I believe Hon. Chair that this is a very short Bill and the amendments that we are proposing are just five clauses.
Let me thank Hon. Biti for his articulate presentation which I followed attentively. We differ on one and I agree with him partially on the issue of mandatory sentencing that the trend worldwide now is to give our judicial officers discretion but the issue of having a mandatory sentence for rape, particularly for our country, stems out of the fact that the generality of our people believe that our laws are lenient, so let us put mandatory sentences as a deterrent. Nevertheless, the general direction that is believed to be democratic is to allow the judiciary the discretion to impose an appropriate fine without the issue of mandatory sentencing. I do believe that in our setting, it is progressive to have that mandatory sentencing for now, because as alluded to by Hon. Biti, it is a heinous crime against a person that the offence has been done and we believe that for now we should have that law in our statutes and have the mandatory sentencing. Having said that, I move that the Bill be read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CRIMINAL LAW CODIFICATION AND REFORM AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 15, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
On Clause 2:
HON. BITI: This provision in Clause 2 is very wide. It is extremely wide. A law must be enforceable and my suggestion is that we need to deal with a number of issues. Firstly, the issue of penalties. The issue of termination of citizenship is clearly unconstitutional. Cancellation of permanent residence is also very unconstitutional and the issue of prohibition from being a registered voter is unconstitutional and disproportionate and the issue of filling of a public office is also unconstitutional. I propose that we remove lines 5, 10, 20 and 25 on page 3 of the Bill that deals with alternative penalties so we reduce it to – ‘a fine not exceeding…’ However, even before we go that far, there is a problem with this provision. It says, “Any citizen or permanent resident of Zimbabwe (hereinafter in this section called “the accused”) who, within or outside Zimbabwe actively partakes (whether himself or herself or through an agent, and whether on his or her own initiative or at the invitation of the foreign government concerned or any of its agents, proxies or entities) in any meeting whose object the accused knows or has reasonable grounds for believing involves the consideration of/or the planning for the implementation or enlargement of sanctions or a trade boycott against Zimbabwe (whether those sanctions or that boycott is untargeted, or targets any individual or official or class of individuals or officials, but whose effects indiscriminately affect the people of Zimbabwe as a whole or any substantial section thereof) shall be guilty of willfully damaging the sovereignty and national interest of Zimbabwe and liable to…” So it is saying any meeting that one participates in whether - okay, let me be systematic. Let me start with 3(2) which is already part of our treason laws and I would argue that we do not require that because it is already part of our treason and sabotage laws but the new thing is therefore, subclause 3 of Clause 2. What the provision does, it takes away lease rae, it takes away mental intention [HON. ZIYAMBI: Which one are you referring to?] – The one which says ‘any citizen or permanent resident of Zimbabwe, who within or outside Zimbabwe actively partakes or through an agent and whether on his or her own initiative or have an invitation of the foreign Government concerned or any of its agents in any meeting whose object or one of its objects the accused knows or has reasonable ground, believes involves the consideration and or the planning or implementation or enlargement of sanctions or trade boycott against Zimbabwe. Whether those sanctions or that boycott is targeted or untargeted, any individual official but whose effects indiscreetly affects the people of Zimbabwe as a whole, shall be guilty of ruefully damaging the sovereignty and national interests of Zimbabwe and liable to’.
So, this provision is too wide. What are we trying to criminalise? If we are trying to criminalise the attendance at a meeting which discusses this, then the person must have mens rea. The person must know that this meeting is going to discuss such sanctions. As it is, it is too wide. So, you can be trapped. - [HON. ZIYAMBI: It is a meeting which you know. So, you have reasonable ground to know. If you know you have mens rea, you have knowledge of that.] –
I have just come from a public meeting in South Africa, on Friday. It was discussing the environment. It was called the Earth Gathering. It was discussing things like de-cabornisation, digitalisation, data and so forth. Someone in that audience asked me a question because I was on the podium - you people, the Government of Zimbabwe, they are stealing too much. That was not on the agenda. I can be criminalised because of this provision. I did not go there to discuss that. I went to discuss digitalisation, de-cabornisation, new fancy words that I now know. Suddenly someone brought me to gold mafia and then I am criminalised. So, there must be clear mens rea. – [HON. ZIYAMBI: It is there.] – I will show you, it is not there.
If you go to Clause 5, it says ‘in any prosecution of an offence against subsection 3, it shall not be a defence that the accused did not at first know or realise that the meeting which is subject to the charge involved the consideration of sanctions against or top boycott of Zimbabwe’ So you are now taking away that defence, like in my case, I am discussing rhino poaching –[HON. ZIYAMBI: Continue, what it says] – it says, which is subject to the charge involved, if after that topic was raised by any participant at the meeting, the accused can be proved to have promoted, advanced, encouraged or advocated for the imposition of sanctions or trade boycott; why do you need to take away that defence, why are you qualifying that defence. – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Iyi ndoyatozo ita zvive right. The moment you start supporting and advocating, even when you did not know when you get there.] – Look, this provision - at what stage do you say people are discussing sanctions because she can go to PAP and people start discussing about economic difficulties in Zimbabwe.
I for instance love the Minister of Finance, Hon. Mthuli Ncube and I start saying the bond note is a collapse, the bond note is a failure. I start discussing about gold mafia, saying there are people that are smuggling our gold. That can easily be taken to be calling for sanctions on Zimbabwe but it is not. So, we need to make sure that we know what we are talking about, which is an act of active harm to Zimbabwe. That should not be mental intention. That should not be mens rea. So, we should qualify that by stating you must have a deliberate intention of harming Zimbabweans or individual Zimbabweans but you cannot stop me from saying Mthuli Ncube is a natural disaster, Patrick Chinamasa was better, you cannot say that. Whether I am saying it in Beijing or India or Honolulu, I have got a constitutional right to say that. – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Zvauri kutaura izvozvo zviri mo] – No, it is not sufficiently making that distinction, vaChinotimba, it is not sufficiently making that distinction. So, imi mukaenda ku ILO kuGeneva, mukanotaura kuti Mthuli haasi kubhadhara vashandi, mava kutonzi maita masanctions. Mukati arikubira vanhu nemabond notes, mava kutonzi maita masanctions. - [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjection.] - Inzwaika, ndini gweta, ndiri kuti inini segweta, mutemo uyu hausi kuita distinction between legitimate, lawful discussion on Zimbabwe and what this Bill is intending to deal with, which is an actus reus invitation of harm on the country. Let us make that distinction because we cannot stop vaChinotimba, we cannot stop kudiscusser mbavha dziri kuba goridhe redu. –[HON. ZIYAMBI: We want to criminalise munhu arikuita active participation yoku injure Zimbabwe. So, tell us, how do you want to word it?] We agree that is ok, that is what we want to criminalise, wording haina basa] – Manyorere avatoita iwayo akatonaka. Kana pane chizvarwa chino pusher kana kukumbira zvitongo against Zimbabwe, yaita mhosva. Asi pakukumbira uku hazvisanganise kodzero yomu Zimbabwe yokukurukura zviri kuitika muZimbabwe.
Imimi vaMataranyika makapfuura noku law school. This provision is not sufficiently making that demarcation between allowed free speech and what you are trying to criminalise, which is a deliberate conscious invitation of penalties against the sovereign republic. [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Unoda kuti zvinzii] – Zvavanga vatoita ivava zvakatonaka.
HON. MADZIMURE: Hon. Mataranyika, you support such issues to pass, these are some of the issues, zvakaita kuti vamwe vange vari kuKenya vakagara uko. Taimbovaudza kuti zvamunoregedza zvinhu zvichingopfuura izvi muchifunga kuti muri kudealer nevanhu vari reasonable, you are dealing with unreasonable people. Takambovona rimwe zuva mumwe achiseterwa so. Iwe discussion yachoka, you know what you are discussing about and then someone just brings in a new issue – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – Munombozvifungireiko izvozvo, ndiani wamurikufungira izvozvo.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Chairman, Zimbabwe joins an international law, which says if the parties to this law breach provisions of this particular law, there are going to be sanctions. When you are talking of sanctions, it is a too broad word which you need to define in this law, which we are making. When you are talking of sanctions, for example what happened to ZIFA or to our football whereby we were found to be in breach of the statutes of FIFA. As a result, we were sanctioned as a country. So, when you just say sanctions in broad terms, you are then not specifying – [ HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. DR. MAVETERA): Order Hon. Members. May we please wait until the Minister is back. Order, order Hon. Chinotimba!
HON. MADZIMURE: Chair, Clause 2 that we are talking about is a very dangerous Clause. Why, because it entirely depends on the interpretation of the one listening to what you are saying – [ HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, I am talking of the interpretation by a person. – [ HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): On Clause 2, (3), which states that any citizen or permanent resident, I propose that we change it to read as follows: “Any citizen or permanent resident of Zimbabwe who is within or outside Zimbabwe, intentionally partakes at the invitation of a foreign government in a meeting whose object the accused knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing involves the consideration of or the planning of the implementation…” and then it goes on like that. So, that is the change that I propose. It will cover what Hon. Biti was speaking about and everything. It becomes very clear.
HON. BITI: On those penalties Madam Chair and the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, the additional - I propose that the provision dealing with additional penalties be removed so that on page 3 of the Bill, you said ‘a fine not exceeding level 12, or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or both’, then you say ‘additional’. Why do we not just say alternatively? Remove additionally or just say alternatively.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Let me explain something. Hon. Chair. Hon. Biti was worried about termination of citizenship. Those that have citizenship by registration who have acquired our citizenship and then they go to other countries to advocate for this action that we are criminalising, we do not have any reason to keep the citizenship. This is not talking about you and me. You and me, we will send you to jail but foreigners who acquire our citizenship, we will cancel it and we deport you. If you acquire our citizenship, you can be registered as a voter and we can take it away and we deport you.
So, this provision is not speaking about you because there are laws that prohibit us from leaving you and me stateless. What we are doing is if somebody comes from Zambia and then starts advocating that we give him citizenship by registration and starts advocating that there must be sanctions against Zimbabwe and it is proven in court; on the motion of the prosecutor, we can take away that citizenship and deport you to Zambia in addition to ten years. We send you for ten years and after that, we deport you because you are an undesirable person.
The problem is there are certain individuals who may be sent by their countries to destabilise us. That is the reason why we will jail you and after that, we make sure that you leave but you and me, we cannot take away your citizenship. So I can remove ‘additionally’ and say ‘alternatively’ but the rest is okay. Even if we say alternatively, it does not mean to say you are not going to jail. It is on the motion of the prosecutor to add that. The additionally does not help anything even if we remove it. Read it correctly and you will see that we will still send you to jail.
A fine not exceeding 12 months or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or both or alternatively on the motion of the prosecutor to any one of the following. So the ‘additionally’, we can remove. It is citizen by registration – [HON. BITI: Aiwa (c) iyo prohibition for being a registered voter or voting at an election for a period of… So makumurambidza kuti avhote munhu iyeye.] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Chair, I move the amendments standing in my name that I have proposed.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Can you please approach the Chair?
Amendments to Clause 2 put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections, divide the House!] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, where is this coming from? – [HON. MEMBERS: The Hansard has already indicated that the AYES have it, - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] - [HON. MEMBERS: Divide the House!] -
- [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections]-
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICLE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Chair, can we report progress and seek leave to sit again.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Four Minutes past Six o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 30th May, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE, in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put their phones on silent or better still, switch them off.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 7 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 8 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
Eighth Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 By-Election.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that Order of the Day Number 9 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 10 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR DOCTORS AND NURSES
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Mr. President, I move the motion standing in my name that Government urgently improves the Conditions of Service for doctors and nurses.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: Doctors and nurses play a pivotal role in the health system and in our lives. I can describe their selfless sacrifice as they are next to God. In the Bible, when God created Adam as the first human on earth, God formed Eve after he operated on Adam by taking Adam’s rib and gave life to Eve. The same applies to our doctors and nurses.
I also acknowledge with appreciation, the selfless sacrifice by our doctors and nurses at a time when the COVID-19 scourge wreaked havoc. COVID-19 brought the darkest times in the health sector and to our communities in such a manner that we thought rapture had come to our motherland Zimbabwe. We were impressed by the wholeheartedness of such men and women despite poor conditions of service in their operational environment as evinced by uncompetitive remuneration, inadequate medical supplies and equipment, shortage of accommodation and transport among other challenges.
Mr. President, we lost lives in Zimbabwe due to COVID-19 and applaud the noble initiatives by our Government in expeditiously introducing tangible measures that mitigated and addressed COVID-19; and also strengthened the healthcare system at a time when the outbreak ravaged most countries in the world.
Now therefore, I call upon our Government to: -
(a) Urgently improve doctors and nurses Conditions of Service through the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
(b) Government to bring in resources and latest equipment to use in times of these communicable diseases like COVID-19 would be of great advantage to us;
(c) Provide decent accommodation for doctors and nurses as a reward and appreciation for their sterling effort in combating COVID-19 at the expense of their lives;
(d) Ensure that adequate funds are mobilised and availed to enable the Ministry of Health and Child Care to fulfil its obligation on health service delivery without any hinderances, especially in times of communicable disease like COVID-19.
There is need for sending cadres out there to specialise and come back to work and teach in our major hospitals as it is done in Tanzania. Tanzania has a very good way of how the Government has embarked on sending their people to specialize and they come back into the country and they are well paid, hence they stay in public and private sectors in their country.
Remunerate medical practitioners with competitive salaries as a way of addressing challenges associated with brain and skills flight in our health sector. With these few words, I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NGUNGUMBANE: I rise to second this very important motion. Doctors and nurses like all other employees in Government play a very critical role in the upliftment of people in this country. Nurses and doctors are one of those foot soldiers that volunteered to work for the nation – that is more of national service than dedication that is required of them when they take their oath to serve as medical officers. When the whole world came to a stand-still and COVID-19 was ravaging the whole world, doctors and nurses sacrificed their lives. We know of doctors who lost their lives in their line of service. I would want to take this opportunity to thank them for a job well done although we know we have seen the best of COVID but it is better to be late than never.
Zimbabwe like all African countries has become a hunting ground for the developed or first world countries. If we look at our skilled personnel, they are moving to look for greener pastures. If we look at our engineers, technicians, nurses and doctors are no exception. What is painful is that a medical doctor is trained for seven years. The resources that would have been invested during the course of seven years and then somebody who has not invested any resources comes and offers better remuneration. Doctors like any other person will be tempted because they have to provide bread on their tables.
The issue of remuneration is a very topical one. If we look at the harsh economic environment that is prevailing, Africa suffers from serious problems of skills flight and if we were to address that problem, one of the ways was that we should improve conditions of service for all civil servants, doctors and nurses included. Doctors and nurses like all other skilled professionals are leaving this country for greener pastures because our Government has not offered conditions that are better off than those that are being offered in other countries. We seriously need to address the issue of brain drain.
As I have said, we have to address the issue of remuneration. Secondly, we implore the Ministry of Finance and the parent Ministry to offer other incentives that would entice doctors that are already in the profession to remain in the profession. Those that intend joining the profession are motivated to join that profession because nowadays there is very little motivation for one to train as a doctor or other skilled jobs because after that, you are not guaranteed that you can get a pay. If you get a pay, there is no guarantee that you will get a decent salary. At the same time, we implore the Ministry of Health and Child Care and Government at large, to adhere to the Abuja Declaration that at least 15% of the National Budget should be directed at the Ministry of Health and Child Care. This will, in a very long way, go to addressing the health challenges that we face.
A visit to our hospitals and Government run clinics presents a very dire situation where people are failing to access basic medical services mainly because there is a shortage of doctors. Doctors have gone to neighbouring countries or oversees to seek employment. If they are there, the tools of trade are not available. We have come across cancer patients that have failed to have chemotherapy because the machines are broken down. This has forced them to go to the private sector. The services at the private sector are quite expensive and this has made it very difficult for this country to provide basic health services to its citizens as provided for in the Constitution.
In conclusion, we implore Government to improve the conditions of service, to address the shortages of medical supplies and equipment and indeed, the issue of accommodation. We have seen positive developments that the Government has done. A visit to Mpilo Hospital in Bulawayo, doctors’ quarters have been constructed. These are not enough on their own. Doctors are forced to seek accommodation elsewhere where they are forced to pay rent. With these few words, I would want to second this motion. I thank you.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the motion which pertains to health care in Zimbabwe. On the Order Paper, Mr. President, there is a motion which speaks to what could be done for health care workers in our hospitals to have access to basic tools of trade, which motivates health care workers because they will know that they have everything they need – the tools of trade. If that does not happen, then it means that people will just go to work for the sake of working because it is painful that they have the expertise, they have been trained and know what should be done when attending to patients, but if they do not have the basic tools of trade, it is really a challenge to their psychological endeavours.
Mr. President, some of the things that I wanted to talk about have been mentioned. I want to appreciate our Government through the Ministry of Health and Child Care for the good work they did during the COVID-19 pandemic. All Zimbabwe’s enemies were anticipating that people were going to die in Zimbabwe, but Government intervened in such a way that Zimbabwe was counted as one of the best countries in terms of attending to COVID-19 and mitigating the effects of the pandemic. Mr. President, there are a lot of things that are being done by Government through the Ministry of Health and Child Care to ensure that health care workers have accommodation, transport and other facilities but they are not enough.
You will find that the efforts are being made but for everything to go well, you will find that there are some challenges. You find nurses in white uniforms at bus stops whilst there is shortage of transport. They leave their places in good appearance but by the time they arrive at their workplaces, they will not be as smart as they were when they left their homes. Patients that are attended to by nurses and doctors who are clean quickly heal, these are the things that should be fixed.
Mr. President, I want to say that if possible, as a nation, we are a very rich nation with minerals such as gold, diamonds, platinum, lithium and other many more minerals and these belong to us Zimbabweans. If we just expect Government to provide everything when there is no budget for that, then this is a challenge. That is why you see that during the annual budget, even the Abuja Declaration which states that 15% of the National Budget should be allocated to the Ministry of Health is not met because sometimes we do not have such a budget. However, with the minerals that we have as Zimbabwe, there should be a way of harnessing the minerals in such a way that they are exploited and sold in a manner and the proceeds are channeled to the fiscus and some of them cascade down to hospitals so that the health care workers get adequate salaries.
If that is done Mr. President, what was mentioned about the brain drain would be reduced or totally eradicated because every employee would be motivated. They would budget for their families. The other thing that could help us Mr. President is that our health care workers should be given adequate remuneration. This could be done through the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development by controlling the exchange rate. The rate is spiraling out of control and the little money that people get is eroded. Mr. President, this should be addressed. If this is addressed, it would be well with us as a nation.
It is painful to train doctors for seven years or so and then experience the brain drain. If this issue is addressed, we might retain the expertise and the qualified staff. This will assist Government. The private stakeholders should also be engaged to assist because Government cannot do everything on its own, it needs partners. If that happens, the brain drain problem in the health sector is reduced or totally eradicated if proceeds from our minerals are used properly. I thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity.
HON. SEN. MBOHWA: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate. I want to take this opportunity to thank Hon. Sen. Chief Chundu for bringing this motion to this august House regarding our nurses and doctors. Indeed, when we look at the challenges that we face in our country, we have quite a big problem. This is not just a challenge particularly to the health sector, but it is a big challenge which is being experienced by all Zimbabwe workers. We want to look at it this way that looking at the expertise, the skilled people who are trained in different colleges in Zimbabwe is of high quality.
I was talking to my friend who is in the U.K. saying that Zimbabwean nurses and doctors are highly regarded there more than nurses who are trained in the U.K, which means that Zimbabwean healthcare experts are trained better than others. The challenge then is that after training our human capital, we fail to empower them with renumeration and incentives which encourage them in the workplace which pushes them to seek greener pastures.
Before saying much Mr. President, I want to thank Government leadership. I sometimes imagine having my own company and with a budget. When budgeting for that company, for me to retain expertise, I would need to forecast or come up with projections of the monies that I expect to raise for capital injection and different experts who would contribute to the success of the company. I cannot separate that from the nation looking at the budget of our nation. We look at the allocation of resources during budgeting. We need to look at what is raised from taxes, exports and sales, and monies that can be taken as loans from banks, then we come up with a comprehensive budget but I want to say why I appreciate the good job that is being done by the Government.
The Government is trying its best because they are working on a cash budget which is raised within Zimbabwe. There is no alternative source to raise revenue for the Government. There is no nation which can survive without credit lines or support from other countries. Zimbabwe is isolated because it is under sanctions. So, I am proffering a solution that for workers to be motivated, Zimbabwe should be removed from sanctions. Zimbabwe should be allowed to apply for credit lines from other countries then it can retain expertise ranging from the healthcare sectors, teachers and other experts.
Indeed, it is painful Mr. President. It is like a water drum. For you to fetch water from a water drum is quite a challenge. The situation in Zimbabwe is quite difficult because it might be quite a big issue trying to chronicle the activities and history. So, this has allowed me to contribute to the debate saying that those who are sanctioning Zimbabwe are not just targeting individuals but the whole of Zimbabwe. You find that children of civil servants are not going to school. Some are not performing well because they do not have school fees and some workers are not performing well because they have not paid school fees. So, I would like to say that sanctions should be removed for the sake of the growth of Zimbabwe.
For a nurse and doctor to go to work and be able to perform, they are products of teachers and teachers are produced by parents who work in industries and mines where they look for money. It is quite a challenge because the money is not available, which means that the whole chain is compromised and compromises even the healthcare and education sector. So, my point is that we are really saddened and it is our plea that nurses should have proper accommodation and be given descent salaries which are adequate for their sustenance.
As Senators, yes, we are debating but we need to identify the challenge. As Senators, let us urge one another in Parliament and different forums that workers should not suffer. When nurses are not happy and doctors do not have proper salaries, then this affects the whole country. Even when children get ill, it is difficult for them because nurses are facing challenges. So, you would find that sometimes they do not give quality service because they are also stressed and this affects even the health of different individuals, and the mortality rate in rural and urban areas. They should be given accommodation and enough remuneration so that nurses can discharge their duties with fortitude. You will discover that all the people who are affected by brain drain go because these are qualified people and experts in their field.
Mr. President, I support what has been raised by Senator Chief Chundu in his motion which was seconded by different speakers in this House but the challenge is that if I do not say all the things, then I would not have done the duty which is expected of me. Let us engage different parliamentarians the world over so that this issue of sanctions is addressed because when sanctions are removed, then the credit lines would be open and Zimbabwean workers will get what they deserve.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHUNDU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 52ND PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC PF held in DRC.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 52ND PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO
Eleventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Delegation to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Twelfth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Sustainable Healthcare System.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Thirteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Sustainable Management of Waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Fourteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Measures to Combat Human Trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Fifteenth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145TH Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and related meetings held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 31st May, 2023.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA seconded by HON. SEN. GIJIMA, the Senate adjourned at Seventeen Minutes past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 18th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, where are your colleagues?
HON. BITI: I am not sure. I spoke to the Minister of Justice and there is a lot of work to be done in terms of the Bills.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Where are they? Can I check something – did you receive any messages through your Whips concerning attendance during Business of the House.
HON. MEMBERS: Yes!
THE HON. SPEAKER: You did?
HON. MUTSEYAMI: I did send the message to my group yesterday and today.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Now can you hear it from the horse’s mouth. All Members who come to Harare and they are housed in hotels, are obligated to attend in person. I am instructing the Clerk of Parliament that any Member who is housed in a hotel and does not attend will not receive their sitting allowances accordingly. I say this because we owe it to the taxpayer to be in Parliament in terms of the facilities afforded us. We cannot be seen to betray that trust from the taxpayers. Serjeant-At-Arms, you start now and ensure that those who are not attending today shall not receive their allowances for two times.
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
SUSPENSION OF PARLIAMENT BUSINESS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the House that the business of Parliament, including that of Committees will be suspended until 30th May, 2023 in respect of the Africa Day holiday in the coming week.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE HON. SPEAKER: In terms of the motion moved by the Leader of Government Business, our sitting shall be limitless until business of the House has been completed.
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I wish to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery, of four Hon. Members from the Parliament of Mozambique who are here – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – I had not finished. The Hon. Members have accompanied His Excellency, President Nyusi of the Republic of Mozambique who is on a State visit to Zimbabwe - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
*HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I stood up to speak about inflation. I know we have spoken about inflation before but the reason why I stood up is because of Statutory Instrument 127 of 2023 that speaks of inflation which is calculated on goods and services in USD and RTGs. In economics, inflation is a measurement of the rise in prices and only one currency is used, whether USD or RTGs or local currency, you cannot mix currencies. So, the Minister of Finance who is a professor of economics should come to this august House and explain where he is getting this mixing of currencies, RTGs and USD, and calling it blended inflation.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, the House had requested for the Hon. Minister to come to this august House with a Ministerial Statement. So, we are going to engage the Minister concerning Statutory Instrument 127 so that when he comes, he can explain what is happening.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: My point of national interest arises from the continued acts of child marriages that are being perpetuated by men, especially amongst the apostolic sects. Recently, there is a story of a 64 years old man who married a ten-year girl and the man belongs to the apostolic sect. So, I implore the President of the country that when he goes to address those apostolic sects, he should speak out against child marriages which is rampant amongst those sects. I think if he does so, those members would really take heed of his words because as it stands we will not have the girl child developing and attaining their goals because they are being married at a tender age. This issue of child marriages Mr. Speaker, should come to an end and the girl child should be respected. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chinyanganya, yes, your proposal maybe laudable that the State President addresses this issue – [(v)HON. MUCHIMWE: Point of order Mr. Speaker Sir!] – I am still speaking. Hon. Muchimwe, you should be in the House here – [HON. BITI: Ndiye mumwe wacho iyeye, 34 wives] – [HON. HWENDE: And then 16 of them are under age.] – Zvenyu zvamuri kutaura handizvizivi. Hon. Chinyanganya, while it is good that you request that the State President addresses the apostolic sect about early child marriages, I thought you were going to include yourselves as Hon. Members as well to do the same, but more importantly, what seems to work is a law. You must look at the law in this House on early child marriages and perhaps come up with stiffer penalties. As you are going to address also yourselves on the Bill on Child Rights, perhaps that can be included as well to ensure that penalties are put in place for those who offend in that regard. As we debate and review our law, please take that into account and rally your views with your colleagues so that you have got a common approach to the issue.
HON. HWENDE: Whilst I appreciate the point by Hon. Chinyanganya, Parliament as the custodian of the Constitution, I think it is proper to use the right framing. When someone has sex with a 10-year-old, it is not marriage but rape and we have sufficient laws. What is needed is for police to stop looking at mapostori as possible voters and arrest people who are sleeping with 10-year-olds.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What has that crime to do with voting?
HON. HWENDE: I withdraw Mr. Speaker that bit.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, the law is not sufficient, I can tell you that. The law is insufficient and needs to be tightened up so that we have a serious penalty. The other side of the coin which you raised Hon. Member is basically on rape. The other day I was watching television, a man raping a three-month-old child. Can you imagine 3, 6 and so on. This House must come up with draconian laws against rape just like what it did with stock theft. Mandatory sentence, no option of a fine.
(v)*HON. MUCHIMWE: Technical glitch
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Muchimwe, can you attend the House?
(v)HON. DR. LABODE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir…technical glitch
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think there is a problem of connectivity.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the provisions of Standing Orders Number 53, 66 (2), 144, and 147 regarding the automatic adjournment of the House at Five minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. on sitting days other than a Friday and at Twenty-Five minutes past One o’clock on a Friday, Private Members motions taking precedence on Wednesdays after question time, procedures in connection with Parliamentary Legal Committee and Stages of Bills respectively be suspended with effect from today and for the next series of sittings in respect of Government business. I so submit.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I see now that there is an improvement in attendance on my right and on my left. When we began proceedings, there were more Hon. Members on my right and they were only three on my left – [HON. HWENDE: Laughter.] – you are laughing, you think I am talking about something laughable. Hon. Members are encouraged to be here to attend Prayers by 1410 hours and you do not show up after 30 minutes you disappear. You are shortchanging the taxpayer’s money.
Secondly, as we move forward, I expect all Members who have been given accommodation in hotels to be here before 1410hrs and must attend Session until the end. Those who will not comply shall have the penalty of not receiving their sitting allowances twice. I make this decision in terms of Standing Order Number 215 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Biti and Hon. Hwende, you are seasoned politicians, nyararai!
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 2 to 6 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 7 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6,
2022]
Seventh Order read: Resumption of Committee Stage: Prisons
and Correctional Services Bill [H. B. 6, 2022].
House in Committee.
On Clause 139:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. On Clause 139 (2) (b) where it says ‘Vice Chairpersons’, it is supposed to be ‘Vice Chairperson’. So I propose we remove the ‘s’ and then where it says on (c), ‘not more than five (5)’, I propose that we say, ‘not more than seven (7) to increase them’. I so submit Hon. Chair.
Amendment to Clause 139. put and agreed to.
Clause 139, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 140 and 141, put and agreed to.
On Clause 142:
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, my remarks to the Hon. Minister are that if you look at Clause 142 (1) (a) it makes the protection of society the paramount consideration; if that is the paramount consideration, then no one will get out. I think the protection of society should be one of the considerations.
The second consideration is also the need to rehabilitate and restore prisoners - so two considerations. It is a balancing interest, protecting society that this prisoner is no longer dangerous and also the need to say, this person has got dignity, let us rehabilitate but if we say paramount consideration, it means we are now excluding other factors, so Hapana anoburitswa. My appeal Hon. Minister is that we revisit (1) (a) and say, ‘the protection of the society (2) the interest of rehabilitation of prisoners. Those are the two interests because tikati paramount hapana achabuda.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, the whole basis of imprisonment is to protect society. Otherwise, people would be given other sentences besides imprisonment. The whole basis of putting somebody in prison is to ensure that first and foremost, you remove those undesirable elements from society and then you start the journey of rehabilitating them so that they can become better citizens when they are released back into society. So when the Parole Board sits, the first and foremost thing that they have to look at is; are these people going to ensure that citizens out there are safe. They have to interrogate that person and interrogate what our correctional officers have done and satisfy themselves that the individual that they are about to release will not be a danger to the society. That is the paramount determining factor that if we are going to release Ziyambi today yet he murdered somebody two years ago – is he now able to integrate and become a law-abiding citizen, hence we find we decided to have that as the primary consideration. I so submit Hon. Chairperson.
HON. BITI: We have moved from the correctional services and the lex talionis and eye for an eye. Our Constitution now has two philosophies. We punish yes, but we also rehabilitate. We also correct, reinstitute and reincorporate the individual into the society. The Minister, if granting parole through this Act - why? Parole is kindness or discretion. There are two principles taken into consideration by the Parole Board – protection of society and also the rights of this person who has been good and decent. We want to rehabilitate him, send him back to his children and to the society. My prayer is that these two principles be recognized here – interest of society and also the obligation where someone deserves to re-intergrate, correct, rehabilitate and so forth.
If we say paramount, then the Parole Board may not have that section. It is a balancing act - let it be known in the provision that the Parole Board is balancing two interests; the interest of the need to protect society and the interest of this prisoner that we have corrected. That is why we are now calling them correctional officers. So, these two are balancing interests.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, we are saying the same thing but in different ways. Everything that Hon. Biti is saying is there. The critical determining factor in giving parole, because when somebody is in prison there is also remission of certain parts of his sentence. We are saying over and above that, this board will sit and interrogate what they will be told by the officers and even interviewing some of the inmates and satisfying themselves that this inmate has been rehabilitated and corrected even though he has not served his full term – he is fit to be released into the society. In doing their work, they must be mindful that the reason this person was imprisoned in the first place was to protect society and then correct this individual while he is in prison for preparation of that individual to be released. So the way it is couched is perfectly correct. I move that we proceed.
Clause 143 put and agreed to.
Clauses 144 to 153 put and agreed to.
On Clause 153:
HON. BITI: This amendment applies to Clauses 153 and 154. We have got Presidential prerogative of mercy and we have got amnesty. Those are done purely at the discretion of the Executive and the head of the Executive, the President of Zimbabwe. I want the Minister to consider a situation where instead of waiting for the President, the prisoner can actually write to His Excellency to release him on amnesty or pardon mercy. Let us give them the right to ask for amnesty or pardon mercy. Thank you Chair.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Chairman. Clause 153, I propose that we amend it as follows: -
Presidential Power of Mercy – The President may, on his own accord or through a written application by an inmate, order the release of any inmate from prison or correctional facility in terms of Section 112 of the Constitution. I so submit.
Amendment to Clause 153 put and agreed to.
Clause 153, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 154 to 170 put and greed to.
On Clause 171:
HON. BITI: The provision says that there must be a report to the courts after every four-year interval be reduced to two years. Every two years, there is a report because with conditions in prison and with the instance of communicable and non-communicable disease, mental illness and so forth, I spent a lot of time in prison talking to these people because I have been trying, as he knows, to push for the abolition of the death penalty. Vamwe vacho dzinenge dzatotacha because vanenge vagarisa. So, four years is too much, let us make it two years because a lot of people cannot stand jail. Two years at courts is okay. Also, let us increase all the prisoners especially those on life imprisonment because they will be in solitary confinement. I propose the period of reporting to two years which is a lot of months by the way and we also extend it to cover every prisoner, not to exclude, particularly those serving life in imprisonment. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What he is requesting is also covered because the Minister can ask for reports to be supplied at time intervals that are more frequent than that are listed there. I believe that it is covered. Those who are on long term imprisonment, four years is sufficient but the Minister can request, so it is not cast in stone really. I think these timelines are very conservative.
HON. BITI: The Minister of Justice is the Minister of Justice now. Next year kunogona kuuya chimwe chigananda chaMinister of Justice. So, let us just make sure that what he is doing right now out of consciousness is actually stated because pakauya chimwe chigananda vanhu vanoorera kumajeri uku. I move that we have mandatory reporting of two years and as I said Mr. Chairman, people are sick muZimbabwe. We have T.B, diabetes and so many other diseases including different challenges of mental illness; loneliness chaiyo, kungofunga mukadzi wako chete unotopenga. So, regular reporting Mr. Speaker yakawanda, kuprison kuya vanhu vanonamata Mwari. They seek solace in God but a lot of them are not Christians, kutori kurwara ikoko nekuti zvinenge zvatooma so tikaita two years hapana ba chakashata tichisanganisira munhu wese. Ndokumbirawo Minister kuti mupaongorore ipapo nekuti kuri kurwariwa kumajeri uku.
The reason why this provision is laid down, is so that the courts do not forget about prisoners so that we do not just dump them and put them as in the shadowy compartments of drawers we do not open. This provision allows us to keep on saying uchiriko, muri vanhu. So, two years dzakanaka.
HON. R. NYATHI: I think the point that Hon. Biti is saying is very valid. Four years is a very long time and hapana chatinobva nekungo reviewer kuti kubva pafour toita two, hapana chinouraya munhu ipapo it is just to increase our efficiency in our operations as Government so that where we are suppose to do our controlling and making sure that things are moving okay, we have somewhere to check on how well the Minister and prison officers are performing. So, I think two years is fairly good. Two years is a very long time and I want to suggest that we take the two years as suggested. Hon. Minister, I think it does not do us well. Yes, you have mentioned the fact that the Minister can do regular check ups and call for those reports regularly at intervals that he saw wishes but it does not kill us to bring it down to two years. So, I submit.
HON. NDUNA: I just want to add my voice hearing Hon. Nyathi and Hon. Biti speak about solitary confinement. I just want to put it into perspective. They spoke in a haphazard manner but I want to speak in a pointed manner.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, May I guide you. This one is not dealing with solitary confinement. We dealt with that yesterday.
HON. NDUNA: I am guided accordingly Mr. Chairman. The issue of solitary confinement, if it goes for ad infinitum or prolonged period, in particular to four years, it causes anxiety, depression, thoughts and psychosis. The practice also affects physical health that you could actually be fractured in solitary confinement because of the development of mental retardation or mental health. Vision loss and chronic illness also develops during that period. So, to completely reduce such period, reduces the effects or chances of developing these conditions which can cause loss of life. Somebody will never be able to enjoy life after imprisonment. They can never be able to finish their prolonged period of incarceration.
It is my humble submission as the two and I have not repeated what they said but to also reduce it to two years maximum, one to the minimum. I am appealing to the conscience and the inner heart of the Hon. Minister to see it in his inner heart. His heart, when it comes to this period, should be on the right side, not on the left and he should, in my view, adhere to the wishes of the tripartite negotiation forum that we have concluded here; Hon. Biti, Hon. Nyathi and yours truly. I submit.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I think there are several errors there on that clause and does not show a cause of action. I propose that we expunge.
Clause 171 expunged.
Clauses 172 to 187 (now 171 – 186), put and agreed to
1st Schedule, Section 3, put and agreed to.
2nd schedule, Section 42, put and agreed to.
3rd Schedule, Section 113, put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I move that Clause 12 be amended on page 14 of the Bill in line 46 by the insertion of this sub-clause so that it reads as follows:- “a correctional officer who retires from the service holding the rank of a superintendent or above shall retain the rank held on retirement and be allowed to wear his or her uniform at State functions”. Therefore, the subsequent clauses will now be renumbered accordingly.
Amendment to Clause 12, put and agreed to.
Clause 12, as amended, put and agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker Ma’am, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 and 4 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 5 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 11, 2022]
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on Second Reading of the Electoral Amendment Bill [H. B. 11, 2022].
Question again proposed.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, elections are held because there is a reason. Elections come so that people get the opportunity to choose the representative they want to lead them from councillor, Members of the Parliament to the President…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, you are not connected Hon. Madzimure.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker, I believe now I am connected and can be heard clearly. I was saying Madam Speaker that elections are held at council, parliamentary to Presidential levels so as to fulfil the law, that is the Constitution.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in every election you will find in different countries, especially those with stable currencies, when elections are held and results are announced, the currency becomes stronger or it depreciates. This is an aspect of election results. Economies in countries like Zambia, we saw their currency moving from 23 down to 16 and 15 because what people expected in the election is what obtained. Election results affect the economy when people are not satisfied with the outcome.
The reason why we go to elections is because when we go to elections after the reviewing of this law then whatever comes out of the results should be acceptable. We do not have to leave anything, but should consider everything that is good for our elections to be held peacefully without any cohesion.
Looking at our elections in Zimbabwe, at one point, it took a month before results came out. Zimbabwe is a very small country and with technological advancement, these days news travel fast. Zimbabwe has less than seven million voters but our elections take time. This Bill should address the delaying of results. Results should come out within the same day. In other countries where we observe elections, you just go online and see the results as they come virtually - because of that, people prepare themselves.
In Zimbabwe, results are secretive. They go to the Command Centre and are announced later but with technological advancement, I believe Madam Speaker that results should be announced in real time as things happen from ward level when the councillor is announced as a winner. The moment that is announced, automatically people know that the President has how many votes in that ward. When the last result of our councillors in Zimbabwe is announced, the Presidential results will be known. What prohibits us from knowing the results in real time so that we know who has won as President? When the Members of Parliament results are announced, the Presidential results would already been known. Why do we not do that if we want the results to be known? There should not be excuses like security issues because no-one is above the law, the Electoral Act.
When we go to elections, we are all the same. The councillors results should be known by people; the Member of Parliament results should be known by people and the Presidential results should be known by people. We note Madam Speaker that when we go to elections, there is intimidation. The Bill should address intimidation because in Zimbabwe we have people who are educated. We have educated people in Zimbabwe because from Independence, even those who could not write went to school and now they are able. We have people who are assisted to vote. You will find a school headmaster being assisted with people saying that he cannot write.
When the ZANU PF primary elections were held, there were no assisted voters but when we go for national elections, you discover that some will be assisted to write. We need to address the law that those who cannot write even an X should dip their fingers into the ink then use their fingers or finger print to vote. If we go to a polling station with 200 people and you are told that 125 people were assisted, only one person should assist one person. Where will these people coming from to assist? In Zimbabwe, no-one is illiterate and everyone can put their mark and vote.
The law is clear that campaigns end. If voting is on Saturday, it means 12 midnight Saturday voting ends. After that, no-one is allowed to campaign and to go to polling stations. There must not be a desk at the polling station or in a ward during the election day. I believe that this will be emphasized so that our people know that we are free. We went to war for one purpose and we got independence after fighting for one man, one vote and not that one person assists 20 people to vote, then this means that we are reversing the gains of independence. We must not force people to vote for what they do not want.
The other issue is what is used on election date, some say that driver’s licence is not allowed. Some might obtain driver’s licences through the back door but on election day, everyone who registered uses their national identity cards. On the driver’s licence, the I.D. number is there. People should be allowed to use driver’s licence on voting day because some might have lost or misplaced their national identification cards.
Registration for votes must be clear that voter registration should not be a challenge. It should be accessible. You find people being ferried by buses going to Cecil House or Makombe to register to vote. I am proposing that in every constituency, people should be able to register to vote even though there are financial challenges despite the fact that Zimbabwe is rich in resources. At constituency level, people should be able to vote. If we fail to do that, I propose that ZEC officials have some days that they visit constituencies to register people because voting is every citizen’s right. It is a good thing which allows leadership to know the mistakes that they might be making in their leadership and it allows them to know that they can be removed if they do not satisfy the electorate. Voting should be easy for people.
I spoke about the announcement of results, it is not clear whether the machines we requested (ZEC server), where it is and what it is doing. We still do not know what was in the ZEC server in 2018. This should be addressed; if we want to go electronic or digital then we should be fully digital and we should be able to determine and know where such records are kept.
On voter education, political parties should be allowed to participate in voter education. Voter education should not be restricted by police because we are not in election time. Voters should be educated on how to vote.
The other issue is what happens during elections on candidates who will be campaigning, they clash with the police. Zimbabweans are educated people. When we campaign and talk to people even without seeking permission from the police, you find that people are peaceful. They do not carry out violent activities. You find that when you request to have a meeting, sometimes you are restricted. It is important that there be an agreement on not restricting political parties from holding meetings because some parties will be barring other parties from campaigning freely. The issue of allowing people to campaign should be clear even as we work on this Bill. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: I would like to briefly contribute to the debate on the Electoral Bill. My first contribution is that the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) is supposed to be independent. As we are aware, the Delimitation Report that was presented to us for example, was not signed by all the Commissioners. To have a true and independent Commission, there should be participation for everyone in this House in the selection of these Commissioners. It should not be presented by one man.
My second issue is, when we get to the voters’ roll, the Electoral Bill must clearly explain the access we have to the voters’ roll. It is unfair and untrue to say that there is a cyber security risk to the voters’ roll. When you control, the voters’ roll as ZEC, you have the hard drive and you can copy this and give me a copy. You still retain the original copy. It is nonsensical to say that it is exposed. It is also nonsensical in my particular case where Harare North is being dismantled and it is now Harare East. I get an SMS purportedly from the President asking me to vote for him listing me as Harare East. What that means is that the person that sent that message to me now knows that on the new voters roll that I am now in Harare East, it means he has access to the new voters roll yet I am denied. The court ruled that I cannot have it but he has it. He knows that Ward 18 has moved from Harare North to Harare East. This Bill must cover those abnormalities and uneven playing field that is being thrown to us election after election.
This Bill must also cover the Statutory Instruments we get which sky rocket the cost of elections for the individuals who want to participate. How does a vendor stand as a councillor with the current fees? How does the man in the street stand as a Member of Parliament with the current fees proposed? How do Independents who want to stand as President with the current fees stand? It is ludicrous that you have thousands of percent increase in the cost of elections to the individual. This Bill must cover that. Madam Speaker, the biggest thing that must be covered clearly in this Bill is the issue of our diaspora. Our diaspora is the biggest foreign currency earner in this country. Our human resources that are being exported are the biggest owners of money into the country and they do have the vote. Madam Speaker, I do not care if it is a postal vote, special vote or any other vote; there is no reason why the diaspora cannot vote if they are Zimbabwean citizens. It is in the SADC Protocol. Most SADC countries facilitated it and yet we deny them. Yet our biggest earner of forex is the diaspora.
Madam Speaker, I wish to draw the attention of the House that stakeholder engagement in all essence, for this Bill, did not take place. A 35 minute zoom meeting is not good enough. The only time we did something like this I cannot recall. However, even a PVO Bill and any other Bill we have done recently, even in COVID, we were getting to the people. Why on Electoral Bill we pushed it so quickly that one day will do and then use the media and say we had 1.2 million viewers.
Madam Speaker, I will move to the use of State Enterprises. There are three issues I have which the Bill must cover. I believe that any state enterprise or any State resource is going to be used by either party, should be publicly declared with receipts and invoices that they have paid for that resource, in particular the media, the billboards, the buses whether they be the ZUPCO or school buses. These must be a business transaction transparent to everybody. It is unfair that all these resources are used and not paid for.
Madam Speaker, my final contribution is on the issue of actual ballot paper. The 2018 ballot paper in my Constituency was so badly printed. You could not tell the face of the person from one to the other that you are voting for. You could not tell whether it was a male or female if you covered the names and that is inexplicable. ZEC is not doing its duty but it must be covered by the law. We must cover this very carefully.
Finally, Madam Speaker, I have a big problem with the introduction of the provincial councils only because we do not have a Devolution Bill. I do not know how we can introduce another level of Government, to try to increase efficiency of Government when they have no Bill or Act. We have, for three years, been given our 5% of the Budget and we have no Bill. It is unaccountable. Madam Speaker, if we are going to do that, the Devolution Bill must be hot on the heels of it. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My contribution is on the issue of the diaspora vote. I think His Excellency has already set the pace when he said the diaspora vote should be there. Hon. Minister of Justice, I think we just have to do as what His Excellency has said about the diaspora. Zimbabwe is exporting labour and are you saying when those people want to vote, they should take vacation leave come back home and vote? We have exported 500 teachers. Should they all take vacation leave to come back home and vote?
In the past, people used to think that the diaspora vote will go to the Opposition but that is not true. We have seen the likes of Nick Mangwana being offered jobs back home while they are in the UK, in the diaspora; which means there are a lot of people in the diaspora who support the ruling Party. We cannot deny people their right to vote because we are afraid, they might vote us out. There are others who are in the opposition who are supporting the gold mafias because they are benefiting in your presence and they will vote for you. I think the diaspora vote must be considered. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, I would like to debate about the issue of political violence. There is no party in this country that can say they are not violent. I do not support the issue that police should not be notified about meetings being held. Police are law enforcement agencies, they are not for MDC, ZANU PF or even CCC, but they are there to protect people. There is nothing wrong to first inform the police about the meetings and gatherings that are to take place so that police will be there also doing their duty.
I will give an example of Kwekwe where there was violence and people were beaten on the clash that happened between CCC and ZANU PF. Police must always be there and enforce peace and order. Madam Speaker, in this country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Madam Speaker, there are British citizens and citizens of America who are in this country but America has never asked them to come and vote. I think those who want to vote should come back and vote in person. When we vote, there are agents for each party and we cannot take our agents to America, Britain or South Africa. In my own opinion, to say that people out there should vote, there are a lot of people here in Zimbabwe and those who are here should vote.
I do not know the Hon. Member when he engaged the President on that. If the President said he should bring it here, then we support it but if they talked secretly, we are saying no, we should stop and we can vote for each other as we are. If we want to remove Hon. Biti from North and put a white person there, we can remove him peacefully and vote for him. We do not want people who are clever and afraid of being exposed. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: May we have order in the House please.
(v)HON. WATSON: Thank you Madam Speaker for this opportunity to briefly contribute to the debate. I would like to remind the Hon. Minister that when we bring new legislation or legislation for amendment, we are always seized and told that we are here to align legislation with the Constitution. However, when it comes down – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
(v)HON. WATSON: We are told that we come to align amendments and Acts of Parliament to the Constitution yet when it comes to the Electoral Amendment Act, there are several provisions in the Constitution which we seem happy not to honour or even try to align. One of the primary constitutional provisions is the access to universal suffrage. This can only happen when citizens of Zimbabwe have easy access to two things; identity documents and voter registration centres as we currently do our voter registration. If, however, we took our national registration to our people rather than them having to come and it was done as we do our voter registration on a biometric basis, it could simply follow through and all of this continual going around country cost will be saved. It is time that we, in our legislation, started the first step in achieving this type of adding decentralisation and the move into more modern and access methods of voter registration and national identity documents.
The second thing is also the lack of access and ability for people with disabilities. Our voter registration process and the voting itself do not take into account many of our population and citizens who have disabilities and that is actually at this time in our political history very sad. The other constitutional provision which we seem to ignore and we did when we did Constitution Amendment No. 2 is the provision in the Constitution which calls for gender parity, 50/50. So, yet again we have gone into a Bill which has complicated things to say one third there and this there and whatever it is, why is it so difficult for us to go with the Constitution and simply have a simple method which deals with gender parity. They were concerns expressed during the public hearings about the representation for women and youth despite Constitution Amendment No. 2. So, I really think as we go into the actual Bill, these are issues which we as Members of Parliament and the Minister of Justice Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, really need to consider.
We also need to consider that we do our voting registration on a biometric basis. People’s fingerprints and photographs are taken and there are details, why is our voter’s roll not issued mandatory on that basis so that they cannot be no question of scribbled I. Ds or any accusations of – [HON. MEMBERS: Technical glitch.] – that cause our elections to be – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –– [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inga Speaker vaita ruling kuti vanhu ngavauye muHouse] – [AN HON. MEMBER: Vaudzei Madam Speaker] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: I want to thank the Hon. Members for the debate on the Electoral Amendment and the Committee for their report. My Bill has got eleven clauses and the issues that were debated and only one emanates from my Bill that of the drivers’ license and others indicating that it should be allowed to be an identification document when you are going to vote. It is one of the issues that was identified and recommended to us by several observers that we must use our standard national I.D as opposed to several. The argument that you are already registered, your name is there and you might as well bring your I.D from work if we are to follow that logic but we follow our national identity documents, that is the passport or your national identity card. So that is the issue that was largely debated in my Bill. The rest of the issues Madam Speaker, are issues that are being brought in where people desire those amendments to be made but they were not part of the Bill. Therefore, Madam Speaker, having said that, I move that the Bill be now read a second time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 11, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clause 1 put and agreed to.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order! Hon. Chair, I seek to follow your guidance and the guidance of the House. I know that procedurally we are supposed to start from Clause 1. However, I have got serious issues with the Memorandum to the Bill. It is my view and my proposal that if indeed we want to deliberate on these clauses properly, then we should start by deliberating on the Memorandum itself because the Memorandum is restrictive of the clauses that are in the Bill. When you read the Memorandum, it specifically tells you that this Bill is to deal with the alignment of certain provisions of the Act with the Constitution as an amendment in 2020 if I am not mistaken. So, the amendments that need to be put to the Electoral Act go beyond those two amendments to the Constitution and if this Memorandum is going to remain in the manner it is, I believe that it will be restrictive of the amendments that are required to be done with the Electoral Act. I thank you
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): The Memorandum of the Bill is not part of the Bill; we will not debate it in the Committee Stage.
On Clause 2:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move the amendments standing in my name that: The Bill is amended on page 1, in lines 7 to 25 and page 2, lines 5 to 7, by the deletion of Clause 2 (“Amendment of section 4 of Cap. 2. 13”).
And subsequent clauses are re-numbered accordingly.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order! I also have an amendment to the same clause Hon. Chair. Therefore, I propose that for expedience, we combine the two amendments. You will note that Hon. Mushoriwa’s amendment is for the entire clause and mine was only for the first part of the clause. On reflection, I am in agreement with Hon. Mushoriwa’s amendment. So I think we can just move his amendment and mine will then fall away.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Agreed.
HON. MUSHORIWA: With respect to Clause 2, there are two fundamental issues that I thought are important. First and foremost, if you read the amendment in this Bill pertaining to disqualifying offences, I want to move that Section 125 of our Constitution does set out the grounds upon which candidates can be disqualified and I do not believe that the Electoral Act should actually add because the Constitution is actually exhaustive in terms of the grounds and I think we should be guided by the Constitution in terms of the issue of the candidates.
Then secondly Mr. Chair, the other issue relates to the question of proof of identity which I believe needs to be deleted. As you will see, I am proposing a new clause. Primarily, the reason why we need to remove this Hon. Chair, is to do with when a person goes out there to register as a voter, they go there with the requisite identification particulars, that is, your national registration card or passport with a picture on it.
The problem should be on the registration and not on the voter because once you are properly registered as a voter; whether or not you decide to use your national registration card with your face and national registration number on it, it does not matter because in any event, the voting system that we are now using will have your face and national registration number. Therefore, I think what we should be concerned with is on the voter registration and not on voting day because the issue is, let us start on the registration if you are properly registered. Then I think there is no need for the amendment that is being sought by this Bill. Yes, Hon. Chair, I so move these amendments.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. As I had already indicated, you will note that on the Order Paper, I had also moved a similar amendment. All be it that mine was dealing with the issue of the disqualifying offence but on reflection, I am in agreement with Hon. Mushoriwa’s proposed amendment, which deals with both aspects.
In support of that proposed amendment Mr. Chairman, I would like to draw the attention of the Hon. Minister, as well as the august House, the provisions of Section 67 of the Constitution which is very clear that those who are entitled to vote are Zimbabwean citizens. When we look at the current Act, it is also very clear that registration is done by the Commission and there are certain requirements that one has to fulfil when registering. It is at that point that the issue of whether one is entitled to vote in terms of Section 67 of the Constitution comes into play.
When we are looking at the day of voting. We have had situations where people may have their national registration cards stolen. We also have the issue of intimidation in our country and there are situations where people with national registration cards will be taken away from them as a means of preventing them to vote. As you know Mr. Chairman, most of the time when one has multiple documents, one prefers to use just one like if you are a driver and you are driving. You will then just move with your driver’s licence which will serve the dual purpose. So, in my view, that clause should be deleted because it becomes obsolete. Once one is registered as a voter then it means what one is trying to do by producing the driver’s licence is simply to show that this is the person who is duly registered as a voter. In any event, the national registration number appears on the passport.
I am aware and cognisant of the fact that there are people who are not entitled to vote who are referred to as aliens and so on but those people would not have been able to register in the first place because at the time of registration, there are certain requirements that one has to fulfil and all those requirements will already have been fulfilled by having your name on the voters roll. So, that is the reason why I believe that clause should then be deleted from the Bill.
Going back to the most important issue, the issue of the disqualifying offence, if you look at the provisions of Section 129 (i), they are very comprehensive. They deal with the scenarios where a sitting Member of Parliament, a councillor or whoever holding an elected office ceases to be qualified to remain in that position. I believe that this proposed amendment is actually violating the provisions of the Constitution. It is actually adding something more.
The Constitution is very clear on what one is required produce in order to be able to vote or to be elected into office, that is to be a Zimbabwean citizen above the age of 21 and all those requirements are fully set out in the Constitution. Why do you want to import additional requirements that will then disqualify members from contesting or citizens from contesting? I submit Mr. Chairman, that there could be some mischief in terms of this clause because even when someone is wrongly convicted and has filed an appeal against that conviction, that person will remain disqualified to stand if this provision were to come into law. I submit Mr. Chairman that, this is not a good piece of legislation. We do not want to bar citizens from contesting.
Section 129 (i) of the Constitution is already comprehensive enough. It deals with situations where someone becomes disqualified. We do not need to put any additional disqualifications that are in violation of those hallowed constitutional principles. This Constitution was voted by the overwhelming majority of the people of Zimbabwe. I believe that we must adhere to its provisions. I am therefore, not in agreement with the provisions of Clause 2 insofar as it attempts to disqualify citizens who would otherwise be qualified to contest and to stand for those selected positions. Those will be my submissions Mr. Chairman.
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, I want to support the amendment by Hon. Mushoriwa. The provisions dealing with the qualifications of a Member of Parliament are set out in Sections 125 and 129 – those are the overriding sections and the Constitution is the superior document. So, Hon. Minister, it is superfluous to try and reproduce those disqualifying provisions in the Act when you already have them in the Constitution.
You will recall my submission when we were debating the Prisons and Correctional Services debate that I tried to persuade you to put the rights of prisoners that are given in Sections 50 and 70 and your exact answer was, but why do we seek to reproduce that which is already in the Constitution. So, a fortiori, I submit that it is unnecessary to have that provision. After all, it is just the interpretation, it is in Section 2, the interpretation provision. I suggest that you do not need it.
The most important issue is the question of the licence. The licence is not issued by a private actor. A licence in Zimbabwe is issued by the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe. It is an official document recording a very important juridical act. The act that you can drive on the road, we allow you to drive on the road. So, it is an important document. It is like a wedding or a marriage certificate. A marriage certificate is an important juridical document establishing that you have chosen a partner in terms of Chapter 37; Chapter 5.11, now Section 5.11 of the new Marriages Act. They are all issued by the State, they are all issued by the Republic of Zimbabwe and that being the case Mr. Chairman, in an effort to respect the constitutional principle that voting should be accessible and open to all, there is nothing wrong in allowing a driver’s licence issued by the Republic of Zimbabwe with your ugly face on it, with your national registration on it, to be allowed as a voting accessory. Remember Mr. Chairman, the key important issue is voter registration and our voter registration is now bio-metric. Your ugly face is put on the voters’ roll so the Presiding Officer can see your face and dimples. So, your national registration card is just proving that you are on the voters’ roll and you already have the face, number and so forth. I think sometimes we complicate the lives of our citizens. A licence is a document that is issued by the Republic of Zimbabwe after a certain due process. So, I suggest that we allow licences to be issued and we remove the disqualifying provisions. I thank you.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Chair, I did not stand up to debate on the clauses given by the Constitution of Zimbabwe Section 1-9, but I just want a bit of clarity on the use of the driver’s licence. What I understand is that when one is going to take a driver’s licence, you do not normally take your finger prints, but when you go, it is not there on your driver’s licence and when you go and take your national identity card, you go through the processes of taking your finger prints even when you take your passport, you also do the same.
I do not see the argument whereby people say you must always bring a licence because if you know you are going to vote and the law says bring your passport or bring your I.D, what is difficult for you to bring that I.D.? Hon. Biti mentioned that we are now doing bio-metrical voting where you see your face there, which is very correct. I have just heard Hon. Markham complaining that at times you will not be able to see whether this one is male or female. The same fate still stands that you may not be able to identify the person because of the quality of the pictures. So, I still stand to say there is nothing wrong for one to bring his I.D. which is very well recognised and also to bring your own passport. That is my argument and that is how I see things. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. The Hon. Members who spoke before me expressed themselves very well but I would like to talk about the driver’s licence issue. The police right now are busy arresting people who are making fake driver’s licences, but we have not seen a lot of cases of fake identity cards except the driver’s licence. I do not see anything much that is problematic. There are not so many people in this country who have driver’s licences but national identity cards. Three quarters of Zimbabweans have identity cards and a quarter have passports.
So, I do not see the reason why we should argue over that issue. If you go to rural areas like my area Buhera, you will not see old men with driver’s licences but they have I.D. cards. If you look at this issue of fake driver’s licences, they are made from different material than original ones. If you lose your original driver’s licence and get a duplicate, you will not believe that it belongs to you. It will be very dark like what Hon. Markham said that it will not be clear. It will be very difficult to identify the individual except that some of us are well known.
The way these identity cards and driver’s licences are made by the Registrar-General is very different. I hereby request for order in this House. We should respect each other and if the Secretary-General of CCC stands up, let us respect him instead of disrespecting the Hon. Member who stood up to speak. Let us keep quiet when one Hon. Member is speaking so that if this Bill is amended, it should do so regardless of which side the Hon. Member speaking comes from.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. The issue that we are debating here pertaining the use of driver’s licence or passport is meant to make it easier for people to vote. What we are saying is if you lose your identity card a day before voting, it will be very difficult for you to get a replacement. So, the person must be allowed to use a driver’s licence or passport on voting day. We are not saying the identity card will not be used again, but we are saying it can only be used as a temporary measure when somebody loses their identity card because they are very difficult to get. Thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I also want to add my voice in support of the view that Clause 2 must be amended to allow those with licences to be able to vote using their licences. My reasons are as follows: in Zimbabwe, for one to get a driver’s licence, you need to have an I.D. card so, the national I D which is accepted and denying the licence. It is actually a pre-requisite for someone to get a driver’s licence. On your driver’s licence, there is your national registration number. There is no logic in denying someone to vote because they have a licence. We are complicating the lives of the Zimbabweans who would want to vote. I also agree with Hon. Chibaya that there are a number of cases whereby one can lose their identity documents, for example there might be an inferno. Fire outbreaks are common in Zimbabwe and our IDs are not fireproof. One can actually lose their ID today by any other reason and they should be able to cast their votes.
I do not think we can sit as a serious Parliament to come up with a clause in amending the electoral laws – a clause that will then systematically deny the people of Zimbabwe from exercising their right to vote. It is something that should not be allowed, especially coming from this august House. We should be able to find all ways that will enable or make it easy for the citizens of Zimbabwe to cast their vote. If there is any other document that can be used in place of ID or valid passport, then we should bring them all rather than to limit to say we cannot use a drivers’ licence.
The issue of licence was premised on the issue of aliens. It is now upon the Government of the day to make sure that all those with IDs written alien will go through a process where their IDs will be corrected and making it easier for everyone to have a Zimbabwe citizen ID. That issue should be addressed by the Government of Zimbabwe. It should not be invoked to deny the citizens their right to select the leaders who will lead Zimbabwe out of the economic challenges that they are facing today. Casting a vote is an inalienable right which should not be denied from the citizens.
HON. MARKHAM: I just want to clarify on both Hon. Nyathi and Hon. Chinotimba who referred to the smudging of documents. When I made my debate, the issue was on the ballot paper and not with these documents. Both these documents are convenient for a person to vote. We should be encouraging people to vote and not restricting them.
*HON. MUNETSI: If we just use any form of identification, it is not ideal for the voting process. There is need for a national identification card only.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, if there is a provision in this Bill that is extremely progressive, it is the first amendment on Clause 2 on qualifying offences that was put there. I will explain why. In the Constitution, in Section 125 and 129, it lists the offences. If I may go to Section 125 where it says, ‘a person is qualified for election for a Member of Parliament if he is not disqualified under the 4th schedule within five years before the election; he or she vacated a seat in the Senate or National Assembly in terms of Section 129(1) through having been convicted of an offence’. I will explain on this provision – all we are saying is there are two people here; me and my brother Cde Chinotimba here. He is not an MP and I am. We commit exactly the same offence or we are co-accused and then I am an MP and am recalled from Parliament – barred from standing in the next election but he is allowed. That is the mischief that we are trying to cure to say you cannot punish a sitting MP and somebody who is out there who was not in the august House is left to contest and become an honourable member. This is exactly the scenario we are looking at that a disqualifying offence relates to this. We are not talking about those that are already here that are covered in the Constitution. This provision will equalise and make sure that no matsotsis as prescribed by the Constitution because we picked the disqualifying offences exactly as it is in the Constitution so that the constitutional provision becomes applicable to those that were not in the House like the scenario that I gave. I do not see why Hon. Members are very much worried about this. It is a very good provision.
I will go to the second one which is proof of identity where proof of identity means on the definition, we had drivers’ licence. I agree that it is national but it is not from our vital registration organisation. Ordinarily, the proof that we require almost everywhere it is from the Registrar-General which is the ID and the passport. This amendment arose out of what was highlighted by the majority of our observers to say, why are you including the driver’s licence. I remember in one meeting I said, no the driver’s licence is not there. Then I checked the Electoral Act and I saw it was there. That resulted in us saying let us use those from our vital registration organisation, the passport and the national identity card. The argument that you are already registered, we are not even talking about that. You are registered – why are you then required to produce proof of identity? The registration process is a separate issue and this also arose from the observers. They actually indicated why it is there. Ordinarily, when you want to get a passport, you cannot go with a driver’s licence. You need to go with your identity card as proof but the information will be there in the database.
I think we may labour on issues that are not very important. This identity document, like Hon. Chinotimba said, if we say that my particulars are already there, we might as well say you may bring your Parliament ID or your work ID because it has all the details. We are saying bring your national identity document, either your passport or your national identity document. When you go to register, those are the ones that you produce as proof of identity. Hon. Biti said one’s marriage certificate is a proof. Marriage certificates these days have pictures. If somebody is going to walk in with a marriage certificate because it has all the details and say it is applicable, I think let us just accept. Mr. Chairman, this amendment is not ridiculous. It is trying to cure things that were identified to us but also to equalize, to ensure that people who commit the same offence at the same time must be treated the same. I submit that we put this clause to the House and we proceed Mr. Chairman.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Chairman, I thank the Minister for his response. However, I expected the Hon. Minister to touch on points that were raised by the Hon. Members, especially to do with how an Act of Parliament tries to change qualifications that are already laid down by the Constitution. Is it not an act of trying to put the Act of Parliament to be above the Constitution? I am sure that the intention in the Constitution is very clear and any attempt to try and vary it through an Act of Parliament defeats the whole process of the provisions that are in the Constitution. I would love the Hon. Minister to address that aspect.
HON. GONESE: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I believe that the Hon. Minister, in trying to respond to the concerns raised by the Hon. Members, is holding the whole end of the stick. I want to buttress the point made by Hon. Sibanda. The point being that Section 125 specifies the circumstances under which one is qualified to stand for office and also partly relates to the disqualifications which are adequately covered in 129 (i). The bottom line, Mr. Chairman, which the Hon. Minister has not addressed is the fact that this Bill, if enacted into law, we then have something which contradicts the provisions of the Constitution.
The provisions of the Constitution specify the circumstances under which a sitting Member of Parliament, and this also applies to councillors and other elected officials, the circumstance under which they will then lose their seats. We are now having a scenario where we are trying to put in a provision which contradicts what the supreme law of the land says. It is for that reason that I am submitting that this amendment which is being proposed is not just unconstitutional but actually makes bad law. Let us stick to what the Constitution has already provided for.
In relation to the second issue, I want to refer to the proof of identity which is in the definition section of the Act. It is very clear that it says the valid driver’s licence will only apply if it has the identity number assigned to the holder under the National Registration Act. So already, it covers the situation which the Hon. Minister and other Members are worried about. I do not want us to have double standards. As Hon. Sibanda alluded to at the beginning, we are having a very narrow Amendment Bill and when you look at the observer mission, they had various recommendations which during the debate of the Second Reading, I actually highlighted in my debate that we have ignored a lot of the recommendations.
I want to also point out that we are having double standards. When I looked at the reports from most of the observer missions, they never mentioned this issue which the Hon. Minister is referring to. I do not know about the meetings to which I was not privy. In terms of the concerns which were raised, they related mostly to the issue of intimidation, issues of coverage where opposition parties and opposition candidates were not getting the same coverage with the incumbent. Those were the principal issues which were addressed in most of the observer mission reports.
You will find that this Amendment Bill does not even deal with the majority of those recommendations and yet the Hon. Minister wants us to believe that this is coming from the observer missions. In any hand, we are entitled to interrogate whatever recommendation. From where I am standing, I think we have made it very clear what the mischief is and the Minister has not answered apart from just referring to the observer missions. Have we had problems of people impersonating others on the voters roll for example, which would then say to us let us amend what is already there? Here, we are not talking of a new provision. We are talking of something which is already in the Act which the Hon. Minister wants to amend. We believe there is no justification. There is no reasonable explanation. In the absence of such justification and in the absence of a reasonable explanation, we believe that even the second part of the amendment should fall away because at the end of the day, he has not told us what the problem is.
What has caused the Hon. Minister, apart from his claim that this was in his claim that this was in the observer mission, what has led him to believe we must amend that? I still stand by our original submissions and I would implore the Hon. Minister to reconsider his position so that we can move forward. Those will be my submissions Mr. Chairman.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Chairman. On the first issue, there is nothing unconstitutional about this amendment on disqualifying clause. It is exactly speaking to what is in the Constitution. My submission is, anyone who believes that it is unconstitutional, they are free to go to the Constitutional Court and I bet they will lose it because what it is simply saying Mr. Chairman is – I am actually surprised that Hon. Members are worried about people out there who are not Hon. Members because what the Constitution is saying, if you are an Hon. Member and you are declared insolvent within the last 12 months, you cannot contest if you vacated because of insolvency. If you vacated because of a crime of dishonesty and you were sentenced to a custodial sentence of six months, you cannot contest.
All this amendment is saying, because we have been barred, why is somebody who is outside this august House now stand and my dear brother is saying it contravenes the Constitution. It does not. All we are saying is, let us not have certain individuals who committed the same offence with me standing in this august House while I am barred from contesting because I was an Hon. Member. Anyone who says that provision is unconstitutional, I do not know how they are reading the Constitution.
The licence one, my dear brother and an Hon. Member is saying I merely referred to observer, no. I said the documents that we use even when we go to register are from our vital registration office, the Registrar General’s and we are saying the passport and the national identity document and no other documents. That is exactly what we are trying to say. Those are the ones that we use, not from CVR. We trust that our vital registration will have authentic documents and those are the ones that we must use. I submit that it will not prejudice but the first one, it equalises. It is very constitutional and I am actually surprised kuti someone is defending munhu aita mhosva yakafanana neyawatandanisirwa muno umu zvonzi muregei aconteste. I submit.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: As much as I have heard the Hon. Minister, I still believe like Hon. Gonese indicated, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and if indeed the legislation has the intention to bar or disqualify those who are not Members of Parliament, then the Legislature should do so. It should amend the Constitution itself and indicate that if you are not a Member of Parliament and you commit such an offence, you should be disqualified. I believe and submit that there was a mischief and reason why the Constitution was drafted in the manner that it is drafted. Therefore, we cannot try to amend the Constitution through the backdoor of an Electoral Amendment Bill. That is my submission. Thank you.
HON. MATARANYIKA: I agree with the Hon. Minister that there is nothing unconstitutional about this but I would try and attempt to answer his example, where someone is not a Member of Parliament. For example, for one to be voted into the National Assembly, they have to be a citizen of Zimbabwe and registered voter but that other person who is not a Member of Parliament is disqualified under the Fourth Schedule where it talks about disqualification of a voter. If the other person who has committed the same offence with the Member of Parliament is disqualified to be a voter, it therefore means that they cannot stand and be voted into the National Assembly, as simple as that. It is already provided for but probably what I would want to suggest is, instead of saying 12 months, perhaps let us bring it in line with the Constitution which talks of five years I think. Thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: My issue comes back to the issue of licences and I would suggest that we have these licences registered than to say they should not be recognised as suitable identification during voting process so that we at least have three documents which one can use. At least one should have either of the three documents than limiting to I.D. and the passport which we all know for a person to acquire a passport, it needs money which some cannot afford. If you lose your I.D. and passport but have you licence, your identity can be proven. Long back we used to have the voting card that were green in colour which were used to identify voters. We can in another way be proving that licences are fake, making it difficult for our Government. So, we should start making things right from now by making the licence permissible as proof of identity and it should be registered. So, we should register all the licences, I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I think we are just repeating the same argument. I think I have explained very well.
The Temporary Chairperson having put amendment by the Minister for debate.
HON. GONESE: Sorry Mr. Chair, I think you have put it wrongly. With due respect, the amendment was proposed by Hon. Mushoriwa and we have not dealt with that. I think that is the amendment which has to be put first procedurally. Hon. Mushoriwa proposed an amendment to delete Clause 2 which I supported but it has not been put to the House. How can you say it has been rejected, by whom?
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I am coming to that.
HON. GONESE: No, you start with the amendment by Hon. Mushoriwa because that is the amendment which is proposing the deletion. Only if that amendment has been rejected – [HON. ZIYAMBI: He is right] – Yes, I am correct. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] -
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, order!
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I am proposing that we reject the amendment by Hon. Mushoriwa except for the one that pertains to the driver’s licence. Therefore, I propose that we delete subclause (b) you will find it easier. Mazvibataka?
Amendment to Clause 2 by Hon. Mushoriwa, put and negatived.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes, so we just expunge (b), that is my amendment.
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, it is the Hon. Minister’s proposal because he has amended the amended.
HON. ZIYAMBI: No, we rejected Hon. Mushoriwa’s and then I proposed an amendment.
*HON. BITI: Yes, so it is an amendment to an amendment, that is what he should put to us.
HON. ZIYAMBI: No, let me explain, they are right. We rejected that and then I moved to expunge (b). – [HON. BITI: So they should expunge it.] – They have already done it. – [HON. BITI: Alright.] – Let us proceed to Clause (3), the next one.
Amendment to Clause 2, put and agreed to.
Clause 2, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
HON. HWENDE: Mr. Chairman, I move for the adoption of amendments made under my name. The amendment intends to amend Section 9, it is a minor amendment.
3 Amendment of section 9 of Cap 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 9 (“Chief Elections Officer and other employees of the Commission”) in—
- sub-section (5) by the repeal of the words “without the approval of the Minister”;
- sub-section (8) by the repeal of the words “with the approval of the Minister responsible for finance.”.
The idea is to enhance the independence of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC). ZEC is an independent institution, it must be allowed to hire, fire and set Conditions of Services for its staff without the need for the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, for example, his approval. They must also be allowed to set Conditions of Service for their staff without need for seeking approval from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. It is a minor proposal. I do not think we are going to take time on this one.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chairman, let me respond. On a point of procedure actually, this amendment is not part of my Bill and it is not part of the context of which my Bill is premised. This particular clause was there when we did the last amendment and we debated it for a long time.
The responses that I made in the Hansard are still correct today. So, I will not respond to it because we debated it. In fact, Hon. Gonese, the same arguments that he wants to make now, he made in 2018. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - I may forgive him but on a point of procedure, he can bring this when we have finished all the clauses. Then he will say, I have a new proposal because he cannot put it in there, it is a totally new amendment that I did not have, that was not even motivated by the Executive that I did not have principles on. He can bring all those amendments after we have finished my amendments and then we talk about them.
But, if we go to the record in the Hansard, we debated this and I can request that we pull those records. Hon. Gonese debated this at length, Hon. Biti debated and Hon. Sibanda and I remember we finished early hours debating on the previous Electoral Amendment and spoke about exactly the same issues. I gave answers why that is not practical in any Government setting. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. GONESE: With due respect to my very good friend, he is forgetting that in 2018, that was in the Eighth Parliament, that is what I think he has overlooked. In 2018, you look at the current amendment, the current Electoral Act has been amended several times. The amendment that the Hon. Minister is referring is Number 6 of 2018 - [HON. ZIYAMBI: After that we never…] – No, no, no, it was not in this Parliament, it was in the last Parliament. I remember it very vividly because I moved a proposal. His arguments do not hold any water because that was the last Parliament in 2018.
For your information, Hon. Biti was not even part of that Parliament at that time. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - Yes, he was no longer a Member of Parliament in 2018, it was around February when we debated that amendment Bill. So, when you are in a new Parliament Mr. Chairman, we are starting on a fresh slate so we cannot make reference. For example, we have amendments that were made in 2004; 2008; 2014; Number 3, 2016 – we cannot start to make references to those because those were in previous Parliaments. We are talking of the Ninth Parliament and we are in the Fifth Session. In the first and Second Sessions, we never had any amendment to the Electoral Act.
Hon. Hwende is within his rights and again, the Hon. Minister has got it wrong. When you are having an amendment, you must do things chronologically and Hon. Hwende’s amendment comes before the existing Clause 3. He is proposing to amend the current Act and, in any amendment, Hon. Members are entitled to make proposals, that is the point. So, we cannot proceed in the way that the Hon. Minister wants. It may be convenient for him but it is unprocedural.
What we have is that we have an Electoral Amendment Bill before us and any Hon. Member of Parliament is entitled to make suggestions in the form of proposals. Hon. Hwende proceeded in accordance with the rules. He made his proposal in writing and that is all that is required and because the proposal was made in writing and timeously, a day before these amendments were to be debated. We are obliged to debate the amendments on the merits. The Hon. Minister cannot pull the Hansard of 2018, of the Eighth Parliament, for what purpose? Those will be my submissions Mr. Chairman.
*HON. BITI: I rise to support the submissions made by Hon. Hwende. We were not there in 2018, I was recalled from Parliament by Douglas Mwonzora –[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- So these provisions, if we look at our Constitution, it says that these Commissions; ZEC, Human Rights, Anti-Corruption, Zimbabwe Peace and National Reconciliation, provisions which are being proposed by Hon. Hwende are correct. When people are being recalled, ZEC should do that independently without seeking approval from the Minister. Of course, they consult the Executive, this is well known but to put this in the Act, is not proper. That is all we are asking for Shumba. Thank you for understanding.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: Mr. Chairman, what boggles my mind is that Hon. Biti was once a Minister of Finance. Is it proper for someone to just present his/her bill to the Minister of Finance saying this is our salary structure of USD15 billion, without his approval? His mandate as a Minister is to make sure that we do the budget but there is need for control measures on the use of money. What I think is that this clause is good for us because it has controls on how money is spent. What I can support is the issue of hiring and firing of staff. On that one, they can do it on their own.
*HON. BITI: Yes, I was once the Minister of Finance. That is why I say practically no-one will come with a bill of USD15 billion, when the National Budget is USD4 billion. So on the ground, what happens, those who are in charge of the national purse like Hon. M. Ncube, before they do the budget, in July or August they prepare a Budget Concept Paper. The Minister of Finance will inform everyone in Government the amount for the National Budget, so that every department is aware of the amount to be shared. Therefore, practically on the ground, the role of the Minister of Finance cannot be underestimated. That is why I said we should not put it in the Constitution because practically even when that provision is there or not, it does not make any difference.
Now, the fact that the Constitution says ZEC is independent, let us remove the interference of the Minister of Finance and Minister of Justice on the issue of hiring and firing of staff.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Chairman, there are two things that show that this thing is independent. On the issue of hiring and firing staff, the commissions should do that on their own accord. The moment they seek approval, depending on the mood of that person, he/she can stop the commission to do what they want. If they are sound-minded people, they cannot come with a USD15 billion. They are aware that they should do their budget in range with the National Budget but they should feel that they are independent. They are supposed to make certain decisions without the approval of the Minister.
Certain Ministers also have problems in analysing things, so we should not force them to seek approval from the Minister because it can affect them to efficiently deliver their mandate. The national purse is well-known to everybody, hence no one can come with a bill that is equivalent to the National Budget to say it is for one institution. That is all we want.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Chair, like my colleagues indicated, these commissions are supposed to be independent. The moment you say that a Minister has to approve the hiring and firing, approval, let me underscore, approval means that the independence of a commission becomes interfered with. I could have agreed somehow if the term was ‘in consultation’, not approval. The moment you say you are approving, then it means the Minister can simply say you cannot do this. So the term ‘approval’ interferes with the independence of a commission.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. My original Bill’s principles and the way it is couched, does not include that amendment. Like I said earlier, it was fully explained and debated and the position is very clear that I cannot include it in my current Bill. The suggestion that I can give to Hon. Hwende is, he can craft a Bill. It is allowed by the regulations; a Private Members’ Bill and bring it here. On the Bill that I have, I do not have authority to include that.
The process that will lead me to stand in front of you with a Bill, there are principles that have to be approved and those principles are the ones that will guide the Attorney General. When I am standing here, I do not stand representing myself. The mandate that I have does not include getting into issues of saying that independent commissions’ budgets, whatever they will be doing they peg themselves, the Minister of Finance should be excluded from doing that, which I think is extremely dangerous because we get our money from one source. The person who is in control of that purse must be able to rationalise the expenditure, not the Chairperson of ZEC and his Commissioners to determine that I am awarding this without the approval of the person who holds the national purse. That is very clear, it is standard everywhere.
The long and short of it, I will be over-stepping my mandate by bringing this when it was not part of the Bill that is before us. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I am seeking a clarification from the Hon. Minister, when he is saying that he is not going to entertain any amendment that is outside the original Bill that he brought here. I might seek to understand what is the role of this House if we are going to take his 11 amendments as they are without adding any value. What becomes the role of Parliament? If the Hon. Minister believes that Cabinet can pass that law, let him take it back to Cabinet. Why bring it here?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, when I bring a Bill, you debate what we bring along the principles of that particular Bill. If you want to bring your own Bill, the role of Parliament is not interfered with – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – You can still, but what I bring, we debate along the parameters that are available to me, but you cannot then say I must broaden it. It might as well mean that every Bill that comes here, you can even smuggle anything that is not related to the subject matter that is there. That is not correct.
HON. GONESE: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I think that the Hon. Minister is failing to understand the fundamental principles of law making. If you go to Section 117 of the Constitution, it is this Parliament which enacts laws. That is where the Minister is getting it wrong. Procedurally, it is very clear it is this august House. So, when he made that point, Hon. Chairman, a Bill is gazetted and after gazetting it goes through public hearings and that is the reason why after the Second Reading debate we go to the Committee Stage.
Our Standing Orders are very clear. If any Member of Parliament wishes to make proposals for amendments, there are certain rules they have to follow. Firstly, they give notice through the Clerk and that notice was given. The only requirement is that, notice must be in writing and it must appear at least a day before the Committee Stage. These amendments were actually made several months ago. They have actually been on the Order Paper for a very long time.
So, the Hon. Minister has got his principles fundamentally wrong because the purpose is warped; perhaps I will let him listen to Hon. Hwende because he is not paying attention to what I am saying. Hon. Minister, I think let us look at the principles which govern the law-making process. The principles which govern the law-making process are that amendments are proposed and once they are put on the Order Paper they are supposed to be debated. The last point I will make…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: You can proceed Honourable.
HON. GONESE: Yes, I would like the Hon. Minister to listen to what I am saying.
HON. ZIYAMBE: I am listening.
HON. GONESE: Hon. Minister, your role is where you believe that you need to consult. You simply defer consideration of a particular clause and then report progress on that particular clause and then seek leave to sit again so that you are able to consult your principal, the Attorney General or whoever, but that should not stifle us or prevent us from debating on principle.
The Hon. Minister’s responsibility is to listen. Once he has listened, if he feels that the issue is so hot that he cannot handle it without consultation, he then says okay, can we have deferment of this particular clause. That is all, Hon. Minister, you have to do. If you feel that you need to consult, once we have exhausted the debate you can then defer consideration of that particular clause then we can go to the next one with the clear understanding that we will revert to it when the relevant and requisite consultations have been done.
So as a matter of principle, Hon. Minister, listen to what the import of the amendment is saying then you decide as to whether they are agreeable or whether you can accede to it. If you are not, then you seek leave to sit again on that particular clause. Those will be my submissions Hon. Minister.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I have already indicated that this amendment is not accepted in all fairness – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, let us move. This one we cannot. I am very clear on this one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Chair, I think the Minister, while he has his position, but the law making process is that the Executive brings Bills here and we can suggest any amendment as long as it is relevant to that particular law, not for him to say you cannot bring in amendments, no. Why do we then give notices for these amendments? So, it is wrong for the Minister to say that. If the Executive is to make laws on its own, let it then just declare the laws.
HON. HWENDE: Thank you Hon. Chairman. I would want to withdraw the proposal that I had moved under my name.
Motion put and agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I think my drafters got confused here. It says party list seat means one of the seats in the Senate referred to in Section 120 (1) (a) of the Constitution or one of the seats in the National Assembly reserved for women. Let us remove youths because youth, it is one. You cannot have a list of one and practically it is problematic even if you want to do what they want to say there.
I propose that we remove youth, and say reserved for women referred to, or one of the seats in the provincial council referred to. Youth is not a list; it is only one name per province. We leave it as it is in the Constitution because there is nothing and parties will just nominate one per province whereas, the others, it will be a zebra where you have six female and male and then you have for women’s quota, they will be six and so, depending on the percentages but the youths , the party that wins in that province then becomes automatic.
Hon. Chair, I am just proposing that we remove youths and leave women. I submit.
Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 4:
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, I would want to move for the adoption of the amendment that is under my name. Amendment of Section 10. The principal Act is amended in Section 10 under Staff of Commission during elections by the insertion of the following provision to subsection (1). Provided that such staff seconded to the Commission for the purposes of elections must not be a political party activists or have traceable affiliation to any political party. The idea is that a person like me, if I am working for example, for Government or for the local authority where Hon. Chinotimba used to work, they also second staff for purposes of elections. Someone like me obviously cannot be seconded. What we are trying to do is to ensure that those people that are well-known political activists for political parties should be excluded from secondment. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, the Act requires those that are supposed to be apolitical civil servants and those from local authorities who are apolitical to be recruited during elections. That is what it says. I do not think we need any further amendment. This amendment is extremely problematic and subjective because who will be determining that? The problem with this is we are trying to smuggle in political parties to be part of the election process, yet ZEC is supposed to request from the civil service and statutory bodies. If we say we couch it as it is, who is going to pinpoint that he is a political activist and how are you going to verify it? It is problematic practically.
HON. GONESE: I just want to assist the Hon. Minister in terms of interpretation. First of all, let us look at the current Section 10 – that is the starting point. It says staff of Commission during elections, so we are talking about staff that is seconded to the Commission during elections because the Commission cannot have permanent staff that is adequate for the purpose of elections.
I would like to explain the rationale for Hon. Hwende’s amendment. Firstly, we have had primary elections – candidate selection processes for the political parties. I want to give an example – someone who is a civil servant might submit a curriculum vitae intending to participate in the primary elections for party X. In that scenario, if that person fails or is not successful, we already know that this person is a civil servant but affiliated to political party X by virtue of them having submitted their CV and participated. The Hon. Minister posed a question as how one can tell and I have given you a perfect example of how you can tell someone’s political party affiliation. This proposal is very clear.
The other example is that someone can be seen at a political party rally chanting a slogan or makes a political speech on television because sometimes we have rallies that are covered on television. It then becomes clear that this person is affiliated to political party Y. That is why I am saying this amendment makes a lot of sense. It is now a question of interpretation but it does make sense and I hope that the Minister reads it carefully, provided that must not be political party activists. It now becomes clear that notwithstanding that this person is a clerk, teacher, nurse or whatever the case maybe; we are talking of that person now being seconded to become a presiding officer, it then becomes extremely problematic. For the sake of clarity, perhaps the known traceable affiliation, we may delete that then we leave it as political party activist, which is very clear.
Hon. Minister if you follow my reasoning, for the sake of removing any ambiguity, perhaps the clause ‘traceable affiliation’ might be problematic if we leave the political party activist to make sure that they are barred. Once you have said political party, the language is very clear – what is a political party activist? I have already given you an example. It is someone who tries to participate in elections and loses or a person who holds a political party position being a civil position. The constitution says they are not supposed to be political but we do have situations where people hold political offices and we need to vaccinate against that.
HON. MADZIMURE: Chair, I would like to buttress this point. We have had several situations where some people have been hired to participate in the elections as ZEC officers. Typical example is one Richmond Siyakurima who works at ZBC. He has contested on several occasions as a ZANU PF candidate and has lost but you then find him interviewing an opposition member who will have succeeded. That cannot be allowed. We have had several situations where non-party activists are then found in ZEC regalia working as ZEC officers and this is exactly the mischief that we seek to avoid. These are some of the factors that cause disturbances in elections where non-activists are found to be ZEC officials. That alone is intimidation as far as voters are concerned. Why can we not just avoid it by making it explicit that those people who are non-activists, we know the activists ourselves. I do not think that it will be difficult for the Minister to accommodate that. We are not saying triple C, MDC or ZANU PF. We are just saying non-activists. Let us just avoid some of these things that can tarnish our elections.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Hon. Chair, I share with the Hon. Minister’s apprehension especially on the manner this amendment is couched. However, I wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister what remedy is available to political players where ZEC, during elections, appoints a known political activist. That political activist might even be from the governing party but being someone that you stood against in the primary elections and you defeated and ZEC later on takes that person and puts them to be a staff of the commission during elections maybe seconded to your Constituency. What remedy would someone who is aggrieved by that kind of appointment have?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, let us park this because we are not finishing today.
Clause 3 deferred
On Clause 4:
HON. ZIYAMBI: I think my drafters made an error. Each electoral province should be allocated six seats in the Senate and six seats reserved for women in the National Assembly – that is alright.
(b) Shall be allocated one seat reserved for youth members in the National Assembly, that is persons aged 21-35 years;
(c) is not correct. It should read “a Province shall be allocated ten seats in the Provincial council for the electoral province, not non-metropolitan because all the ten provinces including the metropolitan have got 10 provincial councillors. That is an error. So, it should read, ‘A province shall be allocated 10 seats’.
Amendment to Clause 4 put and agreed to.
Clause 4, as amended, put and agreed to.
HON. HWENDE: In light of the discussion that we had with the Minister and the spirit that this discussion has taken, I want to withdraw the amendment that I had proposed because muri kuonaka kuti Minister vakufamba zvakanaka. Takufamba pamwe chete. We understood his concerns regarding Ministers. Thank you very much.
On Clause 5:
HON. GONESE: I move the amendment standing in my name that:
After new Clause 4, insert the following — 5 Amendment of section 12 of Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 12 (“Funds and Finances of Commission”) by the repeal of paragraph (e) to sub-section (1).
And subsequent clauses re-numbered accordingly.
The amendment which is a proposed amendment by way of an insertion of a new Clause 6. The proposal is very clear. When you go to the Order Paper, amendment of Section 17 (a) Chapter 2:13 and this proposal, Mr. Chairman and Hon. Minister, is simply to enhance the current provisions by stating that voter registration shall facilitate the enjoyment of rights provided for in the Constitution and must be governed by principles of trust, inclusivity, accuracy, comprehensiveness and transparency. I believe that this is a provision which will enhance the quality of our legislative provisions. I hope that the Hon. Minister will not have any objections to that proposal.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Chairman. With all due respect, this clause, all the things it is saying - while they are very good, extremely good, are not applicable. You do not have to trust me to register me to vote. You do not have to like me. Inclusivity is already there by being a citizen, by satisfying the requirements. So transparency – what transparency? If I am a Zimbabwean citizen, I qualify. Whether I am very ugly to the extent that I can take the title of Mr. Ugly, you must register me. In fact, you can even look aside while you make sure that I register. This clause does not add anything, to be very honest. Unless if you – what is the mischief that you want to bring out of this, because it does not bring anything? I do not know why we need it.
Voter registration – requirements are stated. Are you a Zimbabwean citizen, yes. Then you go to usabhuku and get a slip to show your village then you go and register. The official does not have discretion to say I like you, I think you are a disabled, you must be the first. They do not have all that discretion. While he is very correct, it is not applicable.
*HON. MURAI: On the issue of registration, I am proposing for the decentralisation of registration centres from the district registration centres to constituency registration centres. Whilst we are there, we need to also touch on the issuance of birth and national identity cards …
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Member, all that does not apply in this amendment.
HON. GONESE: For the record purposes, I will not belabour the point, so I withdraw it.
On Clause 6:
HON. HWENDE: I move the amendments standing in my name be adopted, amendments that:
INSERTION OF NEW CLAUSE 6 (Amendment of section 17A of Cap 2:13)
The Bill is amended on page 2 in line 8 before Clause 3 by the insertion of the following—
“6 Amendment of section 17A of Cap 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 17A (“Voter registration to be conducted continuously”) by the insertion of the following paragraph after paragraph (b) in subsection (2)—
“(c) voter registration shall facilitate the enjoyment of rights provided for in the Constitution and must be governed by principles of trust, inclusivity, accuracy, comprehensiveness and transparency.”.
And subsequent clauses re-numbered accordingly.
The amendment seeks in Section 17 (a) voter registration to be conducted continuously after subsection 2 by the insertion of the following subsection: what we are suggesting Mr. chairman is that we must have mandatory electronic voter register that is kept by the Commission ZEC and also by the Registrar General. I think if we word it properly, most progressive nations these days, when you register for your ID, the whole registration is done by the Registrar. They have all the details. There is nothing that stops us from automatically uploading the same information on the voters’ roll that is kept by ZEC. We want to introduce a new roll for the Registrar General so that there is automatic upload of the data and also that they keep an electronic biometric voters’ roll. That is what we are seeking to amend.
HON. BITI: That is already what is there. When you go and register to vote, they take your fingerprints and picture, so that is biometric already. This provision is already talking about what is there and there is a distinction between biometric voting and biometric registration. This is already recognizing what is there. Voting hatisati tasvika tichazosvika ikoko but at least Registrar must be biometric because totorwa maziso and fingerprints. I think it is consistent with modern technology and ICT, and that is in fact what we are doing anyway today.
We are basically saying voters’ roll must be biometric because that is what pertains anywhere and that is why the current voters’ roll has your picture there – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Saka uri kuti hausi kuida iyi?] – tiri kuisupporter. I am making a distinction which is the current law. There is a distinction between biometric voting and biometric voter register. What is in Zimbabwe at the present moment is biometric register. We have not yet gone to biometric voting. When you go to biometric voting and I have witnessed three – four elections where there is biometric voting. Your fingerprints are taken. You go to a polling station, it has a little pad. You press your thumb and all your details pop up. Nigeria, Kenya and Lesotho do that. We are not yet there. We are just saying the voter registration itself must be biometric, which is what is already there anywhere. We are not inventing a new wheel.
HON. MARKHAM: Just to buttress what has been said. There are two things; we have the Registrar General going round the country and has registered more than 1,8 million and documented. If this was adopted, those documented people would already be on the voter registration. If the Registrar General was automatically registering people to vote, which is their right, it will have been done already biometrically because the electric should be common. We now have to spend resources to go and do the same job to put them on the voter register.
The second thing, the migration from voter registration to voting biometrically is going to happen. We must make sure that the law keeps up before that happens. When we migrate to electronic voting, that migration must be captured now in this electronic vote because in the next election we might be there already once we have completed the registration. Everything that ZEC is doing has been done by the Registrar General pachena.
HON. ZIYAMBI: This is not a bad amendment but it is historical. I want to give a background to this. There is so much mistrust in the person of Mudede to the extent that people from the other side said we do not want anything to do with him and because of the compromise, we then said okay, let us have ZEC being the registrar of voters but technically it is costing this country a damn lot of money because the system that is at the Registrar General is biometric. It can do exactly what ZEC is doing.
Over and above that, ZEC currently cannot function without the Registrar General. If they want to update their voters’ roll to remove those that are deceased, they have to go and clean their system through the Registrar General’s office. If they want to know who is now 18, they have to go through that system. In fact, we created this because of our mistrust yamudhara and we threw away the baby with the tub (bath water).
So, my suggestion is, it is not put under the Commission and the Registrar General, in fact we can park this and continue with it because we need to refine it and get further instructions. There is no need for the Commission to do voter registration. It is actually better to have the separation. The registrar of voters, being the Registrar General, makes sense but let us park it. What even Hon. Markham was saying makes sense. When the Registrar General was going, it was biometric registration and he could have easily said okay, do you want to be registered as a voter and the person will say yes and he is registered.
HON. MARKHAM: We are in total agreement. When it comes to registration, the address that you were given is the address that you were currently residing at. From then, your transfer relies on you but the automatic initial registration at the age of 18 is done automatically. If you move to Bulawayo and you do not register, that is your fault – [HON. BITI: So, we park it?] – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes] –
The Temporary Chairperson having put the question that the clause be considered later on
Clause 5 deferred.
On Clause 6:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS: Deferred.
HON. HWENDE: I move for the adoption of amendment standing in my name that: INSERTION OF NEW CLAUSE 7 (Amendment of section 20 of Cap. 2:13) After new clause 6, insert the following—
7 Amendment of Section 20 of Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended in Section 20 (“Voters Roll to be kept by Commission”) by—
- the repeal of sub-section (1) and the substitution of the following—
“(1) The Commission shall keep and maintain it in printed and electronic form a voters’ roll for each polling station, ward, and constituency, containing the names of all registered voters who may vote at the polling station, ward, and constituency as the case might be.
Provided that in the event that a voter is illiterate or physically handicapped and therefore would need assistance at the time of voting, the Commission shall ensure that a note of such condition is contained in the voters roll.”
The mischief that we are trying to create here, like what the Hon. Members have been saying during the debates, we have a problem of people who are forced to say they are illiterate. So, it will help at the time that they are registering for instance, if you cannot vote on your own maybe because you are disabled, a note should be placed in the voters’ roll in order to avoid the concerns that were being raised by numerous Members of Parliament who have debated.
- the insertion of a new sub-section after sub-section (5) as follows—
“(6) In order to identify a prospective voter, the polling agents shall be furnished with a voters roll bearing pictures of all registered voters such that upon entry at the polling station to record their votes, the election official shall cause the announcing of their names for all polling agents to validate the facial features and name of the aspiring voter on the voters rolls provided.”.
And subsequent clauses are re-numbered accordingly.
The problem that we have like in the past elections, there are buses that ferry people with bold heads who will be voting multiple times in various constituencies. So, for us to enhance transparency in a polling station, when a voter enters, the agents inside will be having the same voters roll with ZEC with people’s faces and there should be an agreement as to the credentials including photos and the person voting. Other countries in the region have already started doing it to try to enhance the system, for transparency so that all parties can be happy with the process. Therefore, those are the three amendments that I am proposing. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, this clause is, if we refine the previous clause on the Registrar of Voters, it may need to be amended – that is the first point.
The second point is, my proposal would be to park it and refine it but what I want to say is, if we keep the Voters Roll for the Polling Station, you can just add the Polling Station in the constituency and Constituency Voters Roll because our voting is no longer constituency based; it is Polling Station based. So, it is not necessary to keep a Voters Roll for a Ward – [AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible interjection.] – No, it is not, to duplicate and say this. You can simply aggregate the Polling Stations that are known to constitute that particular Ward and you have it.
So, it is not really critical to have it but the critical issue is we have to agree on who registers and maintains the core then we have the rest. Then what I wanted to say is, the state of disability is not permanent. We cannot say, let us legislate that so and so is registered to vote to be assisted. We will run the same risk yatakaita patakambobvisa izvo zvava Mudede izvi. I may be feeling extremely dizzy musiiwowo voting and request my son to accompany me to vote – that should be allowed but to say we put a register three days before the voting; you may have a stroke. Saka pachi Karanga zvichinzi seka urema wafa, meaning that the state of disability can happen at any time. So, it is very difficult to have that.
The only thing that is required are checks and balances on assisted voters if you can do it, not that we have to legislate that so and so must be registered. I submit. – [AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, we park it!] –
HON. BITI: It says if the Nomination Form contains no space for a solemn declaration. Why should the nomination form not have a space? Surely, the Nomination Form must be a standard form prepared by ZEC. I do not see an Affidavit. Let us have a standard Nomination Form with the Declaration, signed by the candidate because here you are placing an onus on a candidate to say, do I sign a Nomination Form or do I sign an Affidavit. My submission is that we should have a standard Nomination Form with the solemn declaration. – [HON. MARKHAM: It makes sense.] – Yes, because ZEC kana isingagone kuita basa iroro yatokoniwa, mai ava ngavayende ava.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I agree, this clause needs to be refined and redrafted correctly. Let us park it again.
Clause 7 deferred.
On Clause 8:
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, I move for the adoption of the amendment under my name that After new clause 7, insert the following-
8 Amendment of section 21 of Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 21 (“Inspection of voters rolls and provision of copies”) by the repeal of sub-section (2) and the substitution of the following—
“(2) A person inspecting any voters roll in terms of subsection (1) may, without removing the roll from the office where it is kept—
- photograph or make a copy of the roll or any part of it; and
- make written notes of anything contained in it.”
And subsequent clauses re-numbered accordingly.
We are introducing this because of the new technology munhu
akapinda achi inspecta, instead yekuti abvumirwe kutora a picture of the Voters Roll, that section that they are interested in. It is just a minor amendment yaunzwa nenyaya yetechnology kuti ukapinda imomo, you just take a picture then woyenda hako uchinowona wava kumberi. I am sure this is a small amendment.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: I just want to seek clarification from you since you are the one who is proposing. Hon. Chair, I want to be educated. I thought the Voters Roll can actually be posted outside the Polling Station when you are inspecting it. Is there a law that prohibits from taking a picture? – [HON. BITI: Yes, Mr. Chairman] – Which section because that is the section that I want to repeal if it is there?
HON. BITI: Yes, normally voter registration inspection takes place at designated institutions like schools or cantonment. Saka unenge uchitorambidzwa nemumwe mutemo usineyi nema elections. So, tikasa specify kuti because the current law yavari kudhila nayo inotaura kuti unobvumirwa kutora ma notes. Saka tiri kuti, kana uchibvumirwa kutora ma notes, nekuti mazuva ano kwava nezvimuchina zvimuti zvine technology yakawoma, unongotorawoka picture so that hawuzosungwe nemupurisa. Ndizvo zvatiri kungoda kuti zvingoitwa chete ipapo.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, why I am asking? Unless if you are voting in a cantonment – [*HON. BITI: Eeeh ini ndine Chikurubi!] – Eeh specify kuti Chikurubi. At the primary school where I vote from, tell me the law that states that I cannot take pictures of posts that are there – [HON. BITI: Ku Pangula, hatitombo bvumidzwa kutora!] – No, it is on the voting day. When you are inspecting the Voters Roll. Saka ndiri kushaya kuti what is the mischief? My thinking is, this is allowed.
*HON. BITI: We are requesting for it to be amended out of an abundance of …
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Biti, we want the Hon. Minister to finish. May you switch off your mic please?
HON. ZIYAMBI: The auditing of the Voters Roll is through inspection. Irikuti chii? What is it saying?
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Hon. Minister, what happened is due to COVID, for the purposes of by-elections, that issue of the pasting the voters’ roll outside the polling station. All along, when inspecting the voters’ roll, the officers of ZEC will physically check your name in the voters’ roll. They do not put it on the wall. So, this prayer is for everyone to have access and can take pictures and all that. The issue of pasting on the wall came about as a result of COVID. As we go now, it can be removed. We also have problems with pasting on the wall because at times it will be raining and those papers will not last.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Having listened to the Hon. Minister, earlier on, the Hon. Minister was very clear that he assumes that is the norm that it should be put outside. Why do we not insert a specific clause because I heard Hon. Mutseyami saying maybe it was in the context of COVID. Let us address it by saying, let it be put outside the polling station.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think the Hon. Minister, in his response, was making some assumptions and I want to refer him to the text in the current Act. The existing provision says that “every voters roll, a person inspecting the voters roll, that is sub-section 2 for constituents may be required to move the voters’ roll, make any written notes of anything contained therein during office hours”. So already the existing law allows someone to make written notes. I was expanding it – Hon. Hwende’s proposal is simply expanding it to allow the person who is doing the inspection to make a copy of the roll so that you do not have to make notes, copious voluminous notes. You just use technology to photograph the copy of the voters roll or any part of it and at the same time, make written notes if you so wish. All it does is to shorten the time one is going to inspect because if you want to make copious voluminous notes, it takes time but if you are allowed – I hope the Hon. Minister sees the logic of the proposal. It simply curtails the process and makes it much simpler and faster. That is all we are asking Hon. Minister.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Chair. I have an issue with some of the clauses here. Just bear with me, the issue is to inspect the voters roll. Clause 4 here says within a reasonable period of time. There is no reasonable period of time for the voters roll if you are standing as President. You need it all the time. The reasonable period of time must be defined, that is my question.
HON. BITI: There is a point which Hon. Chinotimba raised, which I think should be codified in the law. This provision is talking about inspection of the voters’ roll. Inspection, but do you know what ZEC is doing already. It has this application and people are using the application and some people get disks but that is not codified in the law. Why do we not put Hon. Minister, in addition to what Hon. Hwende is saying, we say ZEC shall provide an electronic platform where you can inspect the voters’ roll and see whether your name is there in addition to posting panze zvataurwa na Hon. Mutseyami of Chikanga-Dangamvura. Electronic, zviri kutoitika, hatifaniri kutya technology, tiri kugara munyika ine technology yakawanda. Two years from now tinenge tava kutongwa ne artificial intelligence. So, I urge the esteemed Minister to embrace technology.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): What I just want to find out I,s if you take a photograph under the current law, there is voters’ roll inspection. If you are in a cantonment and they agreed that it is a polling station and they agree that a voters’ roll is going to be availed at that particular polling station, they have already accepted that people take notes and will do what is acceptable in terms of the Act. I want to find out whether we have a scenario under the current provision that prohibits you to do that?
*HON. HWENDE: Minister, the thing is simple here, when you go to inspect the voters’ roll in the cantonment area, if it is not specified, they will obviously tell you that you cannot take photos. We have a problem which was raised by Hon. Mutseyami, which you are not answering that we are assuming that voters’ roll will be pasted outside but that is not what the law says. When you go to inspect the voters’ roll, the ZEC officers will not allow you to take photographs. As long as you have not included in the law that copies of the voters’ roll are pasted outside the polling station, then we need to add this. [The Hon. Minister having objected] It is happening. Let us include that we are pasting outside, then the photographic aspect will no longer be necessary.
There are two things Hon. Minister. Otherwise, let us specify in here that voters’ rolls should be pasted outside the polling station or if you are not specifying, let us just allow that people can take pictures of the voters’ roll using their own gadgets.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I do not see any problem on the issue of voters’ roll inspection because inspection of voters’ roll affects everyone; all political parties. If there are incoming Hon. Members, when you go to inspect the voters’ roll, you are given a disk of the voters’ roll. That disk has a voters’ roll and boundaries of your constituency. An inspection of the voters’ roll, as Hon. Biti said, you can do it over the phone using that facility and it lets you know whether you are in the voters’ roll or not. You can apply for the voters’ roll and be given your disc. No-one is not given that privilege, no-one is refused the opportunity to check for their name on the voters’ roll. What I need clarity on is, do you want it to be made law, have it written down that if someone wants the voters’ roll – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Biti, please address the Chairman.
If you want the voters’ roll, it can be given to you. The picture or the disk, you can go and ask to take a photo of the voters’ roll. Mr. Chairman, during the inspection of the voters’ roll, one can come and ask to take a picture of the voters’ roll – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
I am saying during the inspection, anyone is allowed to inspect the voters’ roll on the disc – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – The problem that you have is that when I stand up to debate you want to distract me by making noise. If you want to talk wait until I have finished debating and have sat down, then you can go ahead and say whatever you want. Thank you Hon. Chairman.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, my proposal is that the current Section 21 of the Act does not provide for pasting of the voters’ roll at the voting inspection centres. Therefore, I propose that, that amendment can be refined to reflect that it becomes a legal requirement and not at the benevolence of ZEC to paste the voters’ roll at an inspection centre and also that taking of pictures of the voters roll be allowed. Why, because possibly at the inspection centre, that particular inspection centre, they might not be able to put the voters roll on the wall but someone can still access that voters roll by taking pictures and also taking notes. Thank you Hon. Chair.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, this is one of those that I think we park again – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I am not arguing with you. I just want to check – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Clause 7 deferred.
On New Clause 8:
HON. GONESE: I move the amendment standing in my name – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –This clause talks of a reasonable time. We have had problems with these open-ended clauses where under the current Act – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – It is amendment of Section 21 of Chapter 2;13. In fact Sections 3, 4 and 6 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
Sections 3, 4 and 6 talks of a reasonable time when someone has requested for a copy of the voters’ roll. So, my proposal is very simple. We remove the words ‘within a reasonable time’ and we insert ‘within 72 hours’. The reason being that the current provision is open ended. When we say ‘reasonable time’, it depends who is interpreting it. So, someone can say even three months is a reasonable time. There is no definition. I am saying let us have something specific. That is the first part of the amendment.
The other one is that where we have got the electronic voters’ roll, let us just put non editable so that it becomes very clear. This is one of the issues raised by ZEC in their opposition to applications that people can tamper with an electronic voters’ roll. So, let us just put non-editable then that cures the problem. So those are the two proposals. I think the next one (c) may just fall away. Hon. Minister, I think it is now clear.
Business was suspended at 1923 hours and was resumed at 2019 hours.
On New Clause 8:
HON. GONESE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I move the amendment standing in my name that,
After new clause 7, insert the following—
8 Amendment of section 21 of Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 21 (“Inspection of voters rolls and provision of copies”) as follows—
- in subsections (3), (4) and (6) by the deletion of the phrase “within a reasonable period of time” and the substitution of “within seventy-two (72) hours” wherever it appears;
- in paragraph (a) of subsection (6) by the insertion of “non-editable” before “electronic”;
- by the deletion of paragraph (b) of subsection (6).
And subsequent clauses re-numbered accordingly.
At the present moment, it says ‘reasonable time and there is no definition’. at the moment, it simply says, ‘electronic’, as you will recall Hon. Minister, the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) has previously indicated that they are reluctant to release the electronic Voters Roll for fear that it can be tampered with. So we are simply addressing that. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): Hon. Members, order please!
HON. GONESE: Yes, we want to add ‘non-editable’ such that the electronic form cannot be edited – that is what we are proposing. It does not do any harm - it actually ensures that the fears are allayed and to make sure that you define it properly. The more important substantive is the one relating to 72 hours; if you want five days, we can compromise on that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Is it where it says either in printed or electronic form? – [HON. GONESE: Yes.] – So none editable?
HON. GONESE: Yes, we can defer it, the important amendment is the one on 72 hours. It is fine. – [HON. MARKHAM: There must be a time limit!] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair!
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Are you connected Hon. Minister?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Why connect now, they are sleeping, anyone who wanted to do business is supposed to be here. Otherwise, if we connect - we already have quorum Hon. Chair. Anyone who wanted to do business is supposed to be here; otherwise we will see people in pyjamas if we start connecting. No, I am not connecting now, it is late. Hon. Chair, the Hon. Speaker was very clear when we started that Hon. Members must come to the House. Moreso, when they knew that we were going to sit until midnight.
- Chair, my submission is that the amendment proposed by Hon. Gonese be changed to read, ‘in subsections (3), (4) and (6) by the deletion of the phrase “within a
reasonable period of time” and the substitution of “within five working days”
HON. GONESE: I think I am agreeable to that, within five working days.
HON. ZIYAMBI: We delete (b) on his amendment we delete it.
HON. GONESE: I think (c), can also be deleted Hon. Chairman.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The challenge that we now have Mr. Chairman, because we have deferred a lot of clauses, We need to agree that when we come back, we adopt everything because now we will confuse each other.
Amendment to New Clause 8 put and agreed to.
New Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
On original Clause 8:
Hon. Mushoriwa having wanted to remove other national newspapers but to only include the Gazette and other media in the constituency.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I want this one to end where it says Gazette and delete everything else.
Amendments to original Clause 8 put and agreed to
Original Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
New Clause 9 put and agreed to.
On Clause 10:
HON. GONESE: Mr. Chairman, the import of this proposal relates to various matters. One is to deal with delimitation so that there is clarity on what the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) is required to do in terms of the consultations with the Multi-Liaison Committee and also the requirement that it has to follow the provisions. The reasons why we had the court challenge for instance, is because of lack of clarity regarding what ZEC must do. The import of this proposed amendment is to ensure that everything is very clear so that apart from the framework that is laid down in the Constitution, the Constitution is like the foundation. What we now want is the framework which governs that.
In particular, there is the issue of youth representation. At the moment, if it is left as it is, we can have a situation where a province is represented by a youth of the same gender in perpetuity. My proposal was to have at least a maximum of two-five year terms but I am amenable to have it even for one term so that there is a rotation to ensure that any particular province, if it is a male representing it in this particular constituency, the next election cycle, it should be a woman and vice versa. Those are the main amendments.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair, I was thinking on my feet. Issues to do with delimitation, to be honest, we need to come up with a Delimitation Act and my submission also is, we have concentrated on the Electoral Board, even things that are not theirs. So, we need not to cloud ourselves and unnecessarily put things in the Electoral Act but really to think what we need to do in terms of coming up with proper legislation that will govern how.
I agree with some of the issues that you raised there. They are very noble but I think for our purposes now, it might not quite satisfy what is needed to deal with delimitation issues. That is my submission.
The youth one, I think if we get it, we need now to panel-beat because we are not allocating the same gender currently. We are nominating, putting forward a youth. So, the next election, we need to couch that the election that will come after this one, a different gender should be put – [HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Inaudible interjection.]- Simuka utaure.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Inzwai vakomana.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Sibanda, who is vakomana?
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Sorry Hon. Chair. My apologies. We have done sufficient progress as a country in ensuring that there is fair gender representation. If you look currently that we are going to have a 30% quota system for councilors that are female, we have got PR, that is female. So, for the youth, let us allow provinces to choose their best person. At least that is my feeling. From the province where I come from, I would not want a situation where it is imposed upon us to say no, this electoral year we are going to have a female or this coming year we are going to have a male. I do not prescribe to that. Thank you.
HON. GONESE: I believe that let us not conflate different issues into the same clause. When we are talking of local authorities, we have dealt with it at that level. We could have used the same argument to say that look, in the National Assembly we have got the Proportional Representation seats but we went on to extend it because it was felt that there was a lacuna whereby the issue of gender parity was only being addressed in the National Assembly and nowhere else.
By the same token we have got the youth. The principle was that we must have people who are aged between 18 and 35 to be represented, to be given a specific seat. If you look at the provision in the Senate it talks of two, a male and a female person with different disabilities and we addressed the issue of gender that way.
In terms of the youth representation, for whatever reason, there might have been a feeling that we cannot increase the numbers, but we only increase it by one per province which is a total of 10 and I think it makes a lot of sense. In any event it is unlikely to affect the same individual because there is a limit as to how many years a person can remain within the age group falling under the youth. I believe that the principle which I am advocating for ensures that the youth representation is gender balanced in the sense that you do not have a situation where for a continuous period you can have all the 10 provinces all being represented by males for example. If we know that we have got a male this year or this five year period, the next five year period we will be having a female. Initially I had actually proposed a 10 year period to ensure that there is that rotation, but others have expressed the sentiment that it is actually better to have rotation after every election and to me that makes a lot of sense.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, the first problem that we have is, we have to move this amendment from this section to the appropriate one. Secondly, I do not have any problem because I think political parties agreed to that in terms of ensuring that we have representation from both genders. So that should not be a problem but can we find where to put it, the correct place because here if you look at the original section, it is section 37A delimitation of constituencies and electoral divisions, we cannot place it there. We need to check and see where we can put it. It is not appropriately placed here. I suggest that it is very good but we need to identify the correct place. If we pass that clause we can recommit, but we need to find a way of dealing with it. My only problem is, we have processes that have already started. So, we need to rephrase it so that it does not affect the current section because those that are already there have legitimate expectations.
My suggestion Hon. Chair is that this amendment, we do not take it, the whole of it because we need to deal with issues of delimitation separately, but this particular one on youths, we will then find where we put it. So, I move that Hon. Gonese withdraws this whole amendment.
HON. GONESE: Subject to what the Hon. Minister has said, I will then withdraw it so that the issue of delimitation will be dealt with and then we will have the recommittal of the Bill to ensure that we place it appropriately and we then do the necessary consultations to find where we can place it.
Clause 9 put and agreed to.
On original Clause 10:
HON. BITI: The English is terrible because it says ‘subject to this Act, a person who has been duly nominated as a candidate at an election may at any time before 21 days from the day or first day as the case may be on which the poll and local council elections should be taken withdraw. We simply want to say within 21 days from the date of nomination, a person can withdraw nomination, that is all we are trying to say.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, the principle is when it is too close it is very late but there are certain days before the election when you can be allowed to withdraw. If you look at the Act, it makes provision for a presidential candidate to withdraw 21 days before polls, but there is no such provision for all the others. From the day that proclamation is made, you start counting days for things to happen up until the election. So, you will realise that when the nomination court sits, three days after that, voter registration stops and then we need to have certain specific timeline between nomination and election day. We are saying the same thing in a different way.
HON. BITI: There is instability in political parties that a candidate leaves you without someone to replace him or her, so if you say 7 days after nomination you will see what you can do.
HON. HAMAUSWA: I want to contribute to this debate. There is something in our electoral history that has happened like in 2008. There was a widespread talk towards the run up to the presidential run off election. I wanted to check from the Hon. Minister how can a presidential candidate or a candidate be protected in a case where maybe there is extra ordinary violence that can break out and the election result when they are not allowed to withdraw, that result will then be used as if they participated. In such a case, is there any way that a presidential or a candidate can be protected in a case where an extra ordinary violence breaks out that forces a candidate to withdraw? How can that be covered also in the Electoral Act because it happened before?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Hon. Member is out of order. We are not discussing that. When we are in Committee Stage, we look at the clauses as they are in the Bill or the amendments as proposed. So, when the Chair puts a clause, you do not debate like we are in the Second Reading of the Bill. You focus on what is there only. The rules do not allow me to answer you. Thank you.
Clause 10 put and agreed to.
On Clause 11:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I just want to expunge something. Where it says national assembly youth members example, and they say the same principles that is not correct. Let us delete it. Where you are using a mathematical calculation for six people, the same formula cannot be used for one person. This is irrelevant. Thank you.
HON. HWENDE: Thank you very much Hon. Chair. This amendment seeks to deal with the issue of the voting returns, the residue. It is on Clause 11 on the Order Paper. It is on the Order Paper and it is a new thing.
HON. ZIYAMBI: You want a new sub-clause?
HON. HWENDE: Yes.
HON. ZIYAMBI: So, we do not have to deal with this.
HON. HWENDE: But we have been dealing with all the other ones in the same manner.
HON. ZIYAMBI: So, we start with this.
HON. HWENDE: Yes, so we are proposing to amend Section 37 (c) of the principal Act in that after sub-section (4) by the insertion of the following sub-section “(5) The Commission shall ensure that for at least two months after the announcement of the result of the election concerned, all voting returns are kept open for inspection by members of the public at all reasonable times, and copies shall be provided upon payment of a prescribed fees at: the head office of the Commission, where the returns are for an election to the office of President;
the provincial command centre of the province concerned, where the returns are for an election of party-list Members of Parliament for a province or members of a provincial council; the constituency centre of the constituency concerned, where the returns are for an election of a member of the National Assembly for a constituency;
the ward centre of the ward concerned, where the returns are for an election of a councillor for a ward.”.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, let us check the Act first. Elections, by their very nature, must result in certainty within a very short space of time so that you do not have disturbances to governance. The proposal may appear innocent but can lead to disaster. That is the reason why in other sectors they have been calling for results to be the least expeditious. They actually lobby for a day or two but here they want these materials to be kept for two months to do what. Elections must simply be done. If there are any disputes, resolved within the shortest possible time. This is not acceptable.
HON. MUDARIKWA: The situation here is that when we have elections, we do not have a permanent office at the ward centre. We are using a classroom at the ward centre. At the Constituency, we are using maybe a secondary school as a Constituency Centre. So where do you keep those ballots? Do you keep them at the ward centre at the school? Let us be realistic.
HON. BITI: Let me read the law – Section 70 – custody of ballot and other papers; it says – the Chief Election Officer shall”, unless an election petition is lowed in relation to the ward or constituency concerned, cause to be destroyed all the documents referred to relating to that constituency not earlier than 14 days after the end of the election period. So, within 14 days, after the end of an election, the Chief Election Officer causes to be destroyed election residue. If there is an election petition, then the papers are not destroyed.
HON. ZIYAMBI: We keep them for six months. There is also another portion where it says you can actually request for opening of residue in 24 hours. That is the one I used, I was praying that you do not ask for that and you did not. It is very comprehensive. We do not need it trust me.
HON. HWENDE: I am withdrawing that proposal Hon. Chair.
On Clause 11:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): May we park my original Clause because I want somebody to check the calculations. But it was plucked, let us pass it. We just remove National Assembly Youth member. We do not need any calculation. It is only one person.
Amendment to clause 11, put and agreed to.
Clause 11. as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
HON. HWENDE: I am proposing that we amend section 40I of the principal Act by introducing section 40I (“Accreditation of observers”) in sub-section (1)(a) by the insertion of the following sub-paragraph—
“(b)(1) open observer accreditation at least six months before any General Election and one month before for any by-election.” Currently, we have a problem that it is not specified. To enhance the credibility of our elections, I am sure we agree that we have a problem. The President has already said that he is open to international observers for our elections. We are just tiding it up so that they are aware that if for instance an election starts within the six months period, those who can afford to come can monitor all the processes before and after so that we can enhance the credibility. This is important for all us, because if we are not hiding anything, there is no reason why we must restrict the coming of observers. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND LEGAL PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Chairman, there is nowhere it is written that the elections start six months before the actual date. It is not there but what triggers the process is the proclamation, the actual process but an election is a cycle. What triggers the immediate events leading to an election is the proclamation and from the day the proclamation is done, observers can come because the processes will now be coming. Otherwise, we will end up saying we must have observers even for five years because the terminology, the thinking is an election is a cycle. It is not an event. I submit that for people to say they want to be in a country for seven months – six plus one post. I submit that the current scenario is very good where the moment that a proclamation is made, then observers can come because the process will be starting. If it is not there, let us look at that and we say that because that triggers the immediate process of an election cycle so this is not necessary. I submit. We will check that. Let us park that.
That is what happens with our observer missions from SADC and AU. We do not send our MPs for six months there, otherwise they will not work.
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, we have to amend Section 40 (i) (9) (b), which talks of accreditation not later than the fourth day before the first polling fixed in proclamation.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Minister, where are we? Where is that amendment?
HON. BITI: It is amendment 12 by Hon. Hwende on the Order Paper.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Local observers can only be accredited within three to four days before the election but international observers cannot be accredited within four days because we need to check on the protocols with Foreign Affairs. Even on the day of election, a local observer can be accredited but the law says at least four days before. Mr. Chairman, we defer this.
HON. GONESE: Let me explain Mr. Chairman, the Order Paper has been made on the premise that some of the clauses which we have withdrawn were going to be adopted. You will find that if all the proposals we had made had been adopted, we would be at Clause 18 but because some of them fell away that is why the sequence has changed. Hon. Mushoriwa’s amendment was supposed to be number 17 if all the other amendments have been adopted.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Which clause, deletion of Clause 7?
HON. MUSHORIWA: The amendment that:
DELETION OF CLAUSE 7 (Now Clause 17) (“Amendment of section 46 of Cap. 2. 13”)
The Bill is amended on page 7 in lines 17 to 39 by the deletion of Clause 7 (“Amendment of section 46 of Cap. 2. 13”).
And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered, now falls away.
HON. GONESE: I move the amendment standing in my name that:
INSERTION OF NEW CLAUSE 18 (Amendment of section 47 of Cap. 2:13)
The Bill is amended by the insertion of a new clause on page 7 in line 40 as follows—
“18 Amendment of section 47 of Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended in section 47 (“Nomination fee”) by the insertion of a new sub-section (2) as follows—
“(2) The nomination fee shall neither be exorbitant nor inhibitive but reasonable enough to allow an eligible citizen to stand for election for public office.”.
And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
The most important thing is the proposed amendment of Section 47. Minister, if you look at Section 47, it is open ended. It gives ZEC a blank cheque. This is why we have got a problem with the USD1000 proposal for nomination fees. They could even say USD1 million. Let me read it, ‘at the same time as the nomination paper is lodged in terms of Section 46, they shall be deposited with the nomination officers, by or on behalf of. Such nomination fee as may be prescribed which shall form part of, as it is currently formulated, ZEC could come with a million USD or USD10 million because the USD1000 which has been prescribed is a real challenge.
My proposal Hon. Minister and Mr. Chairman is that we amend that particular section by making some limitations and simply stating that the nomination fee shall neither be exorbitant nor inhibitive but reasonable enough to allow an eligible citizen to stand for election for a public office.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND LEGAL PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): That one is accepted.
Amendment to Clause 18 put and agreed to.
Clause 18, as amended, put and agreed to.
On new Clause 20:
HON. GONESE: I move the amendment stand in my name that;
The Bill is amended on page 8 between lines 1 and 5 by the deletion of Clause 9 (now Clause 31) and the substitution of the following—
“20 Insertion of sections to Cap. 2:13
The principal Act is amended by insertion of the following section 52B and C—
“52B Printing of Ballot Paper
The Commission shall call for a competitive tender to print ballot papers and all related electoral material including the procurement of indelible ink, the supply of ballot boxes and all relevant material.
52C Zimbabwe Election Commission National Logistics Committee
- Every political party in Parliament should have one representative
each in the Commission’s National Logistics Committee established in terms of paragraph 7 of the First Schedule to the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission Act [Chapter 2:13].
- All other political parties that are not in Parliament shall have one
representative in the Commission’s National Logistics Committee.
And subsequent clauses renumbered accordingly.
So, the proposal there is to have the printing of ballot papers to be done openly and transparently by having a competitive tender to be floated and also have ZEC National Logistics Committee which will have at least a representative from any party which is represented in Parliament and all the other parties which are not so represented will have the opportunity to second one person to that National Logistics Committee. This is basically to make our electoral processes transparent so that they are not the preserve of a logistics committee where opposition parties are not included but in particular, any party which has got representation in Parliament will have at least one representative in that Committee and even those which are not so represented collectively can second one person.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): This clause is not acceptable, what it is in the Act is good.
HON. GONESE: Can we separate so that we deal with the one for political parties – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Aiwa, iyi haiiti.] – Ko yeprinting of ballot papers – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Hazvimo.] – Let us not conflict the issues. That one for political parties is Part (b), – [HON. HWENDE: Inaudible interjection.] – so, let us deal with one at a time. This is a new section and is not there. The current Act does not make provision of what you are proposing. Let us do one thing at a time and I think Hon. Hwende has made a very pertinent point kuti kana pasina pazvakanyorwa, we can then have a situation where people if you are shown through the window – what were you saying?
*HON. HWENDE: Our appeal is that let us take this aspect seriously because any election where you participate without knowing where the ballot paper is being printed, by whom and how, leads to disputed elections which is our biggest problem here. If you look at the trends in other countries, presidential election ballot paper is not printed locally even if they have good printing facilities just to enhance the system.
ZEC actually has to meet the costs for representatives from political parties to go and witness the printing and they come back with the ballot paper. There is no election which can be free and fair without knowing where the ballot paper is being processed and we might have spent a lot of time amending this law but if you do not show us where the ballot paper is being printed, we might be laughed at but this is a very serious issue.
Last time we were invited to see the process but in five minutes people were being asked to leave because it was said to be a security area and people were whisked away. This is a serious matter and if there is transparency, why not tell people where the ballot papers are being processed – [HON. CHINOTIMBA: Inaudible interjection.] – Iwewe Chinotimba you are actually a victim of something like this because you did not know where the ballot paper was being printed by FAS and now you are seated here and you are not coming back – [Laughter.] – You are disturbing here but your election was stolen. If we do this, it will actually help you too.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: I did not get an opportunity to hear what exactly the Hon. Minister’s attitude towards this clause is. This clause, if you check with the electoral laws of our neighbours in SADC and in sub-Saharan Africa, you will find that this actually has become a best international practice. There is nothing that is in the current Act. What we need is a transparent procurement process and transportation of ballot papers.
I hope you saw a video that is trending, of a nurse who says has worked for 17 years as a nurse but still cannot afford to rent more than one room. That is a situation that is created by discredited and disputed electoral outcomes. When these things are being suggested, they are being suggested for the common good. It is actually a patriotic clause, so I do not see any reason why any reasonable Hon. Minister would refuse such a progressive clause. This is a clause that we need.
*HON. BITI: The security of the ballot is important. So, who is aware or who knows where the ballot paper is being printed, how many they are, who transported them, what features they have, which polling stations have they been distributed to and which ones? So, that transparency is important. In August 1996, SADC brought about the SADC protocol on credible elections and African Union followed suit. We ratified those protocols as Zimbabwe and I know that the SADC protocol on elections, His Excellency, the President once spoke about it. Therefore, what is being proposed here by Gonese is to incorporate into our municipal laws, those principles around the transparency of the ballot paper; where has it been printed, who has carried it, what is inscribed on it, where has it been delivered to whether Dotito or Chiendambuya – all this information is not in the Act. So, this is all we are asking for. Hon. Gonese is going to talk about that Section.
In Nigeria, their papers are printed in Germany, they have three political parties in their federal system, and all those opposition leaders sent their representatives to accompany their electoral conducting body to Germany to see their papers being printed. As Zimbabwe, we can also do that, nothing can stop us. Hon. Chair, if you are going to win an election, you will simply win and if you are going to lose, you will simply lose but it will be done in a transparent manner.
Our country has gone backward when others are developing because of our electoral systems, since 1980, we have held 14 National Elections in this country. All these elections have been disputed, flighted, violated, and a cause for division in this country. We should run our elections in a manner that the victor is congratulated by the one that loses. We should not have structures that will raise suspicion that the other party will suspect that grand theft is being conducted against them. I thank you.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you Hon. Chair for giving me this chance to ask a question to everyone. If we want to be transparent, what then is the point of hiding anything? Why are we spending time discussing something that should be transparent?
HON. GONESE: I want to thank Hon. Munetsi for posing that question. The proposal that I have here is to add one additional section 52(b) and my point is that the current Act does not have provision for competitive tender that I am talking about.
When I look at the current formulation of 52 (a), it simply refers to the Commission ensuring that the number of ballot papers does not exclude by more than 10% the number of registered voters but it does not say where the ballot papers are going to be printed.
What we want is for the citizens of Zimbabwe, not just the political parties to know that there is an open process and it instills confidence in all the Members of the electorate so that these things are done transparently because all entities which have the capacity to print ballot papers are able, that is why it is referred as a competitive tender. They are able to compete so that the process, if it is done openly, if we come up with the best process, we can print the ballot papers; otherwise the information which the Commission is required to provide does not answer to the question which we are trying to resolve.
So, Hon. Minister, I think you are going to understand and appreciate where we are coming from and agree to this proposal. I thank you.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Whenever ZEC is asked about the printing of ballot papers, it has always responded that this is what the law allows us to do. ZEC always argues on the fact that we parliamentarians have failed to clarify the process of the printing of the ballot papers. So here we are giving them guidance as to how ballot papers must be procured and this is precisely what we are trying to do.
HON. ZIYAMBI: I think this clause is properly covered, however for the sake of progress, let us leave it and do others. On this one, I will have to do further consultations.
HON. GONESE: I, therefore, defer the Clause for further consultations.
Clause 20 deffered
On Clause 21:
HON. GONESE: Clause 21 talks about people who are visually impaired, if they are provided with a ballot paper which they can read themselves, they can vote on their own, those who are literate in terms of Braille – so this is the proposal. At the present moment, our ballot papers do not adequately provide for Braille which is called Tactile ballot paper. So, the proposal is simply to ensure that we also have that so that those people can also vote because they can read and write. The difference is that they do not read what we read or write because of their visual impairment.
In the alternative, I propose that this Clause be part of the Bill but it applies with effect from 2028. In the same way when you introduced Postal Station-based voting, we can then have it inserted in 2028 like we did it on postal. I remember in 2004. – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes, defer it.] – Yes, I will defer it so that we can insert that, yes.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Hwende can you withdraw your amendment since it is similar to the one by Hon. Gonese?
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, I withdraw my amendment and will support the amendment that is being proposed by Hon. Gonese.
Clause 23 deferred.
On New Clause 24:
*HON. HWENDE: Mr. Chairman, I move the amendment standing in my name by insertion of New Clause 24 (Amendment of section 70 of Cap 2:13). The Bill is amended on page 8 by the insertion of the following new clause after new clause 23 –
24 Amendment of section 70 of Cap 2:13
Section 70 (“Custody and disposal of ballot and other papers”) of the principal
Act is amended by the insertion of the following sub-section after sub-section (7a) —
“(7a) The Electoral Court may—
- order the opening of ballot boxes and the examination of electoral material if it is necessary to do so for the purpose of re-counting votes or investigating or prosecuting a criminal offence;
- prohibit the destruction of electoral papers if they are needed to investigate or prosecute an offence.”.
And subsequent clauses renumbered accordingly.
Let us revert to best practices. I think we have all witnessed elections that were conducted in Kenya to say they will be having a separate tallying center where results will be posted electronically – that is what we are proposing. We are proposing to amend Section 64.
These results should be in real time and people will be able to follow. We trying to avoid the problems encountered in the previous elections were people waited for results but instead there were serious disturbances. Just like the Kenya model, 75% of the results are sent through to the tallying center in a manner that they do not announce all the results. They will just stop at 75% and ZEC will complete the announcement of all the results – that way, we would have enhanced the system in terms of announcing results.
The problem we have Hon. Minister is that people do not have confidence with our results and the manner we conduct elections. We are doing a useless ritual, it is not helping anyone. Even if we conduct elections today and the results farvour you, we will go through the same cycle. We are suggesting in good faith to say, let us look at that. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: We do not need this - I will explain why. Hon. Chair, our system of collating results is very good. If political parties want to be very honest – even without this, they can do it. So we do not want to introduce problems currently by introducing new technologies unexpectedly.
Our system as it is, if political parties want to do it – they can. At the polling station, results are counted, displayed, you can have your own Command Center and collate the results easily but you cannot announce. – [AN HON. MEMBER: And announce them!] - You will put my colleague in trouble again. I am saying, the confidence that you need, you already have the tools to do it. We will waste our time arguing on this.
Let them do what they did in Kenya. Look at what they did? They ended up going to court with some disowning but they had the system that we are saying is very good. I am submitting that you can even collate the data that you want and submit it to court if you do it correctly. The way our system is, is very good. Let us leave it as it is.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Hon. Minister, the purpose of the proposed amendment is very clear. The purpose of the amendment is for us as Zimbabwe, and as a country to move away from the historical challenge where our elections hit the international headlines of disputed election results. We want election results that bring pride to Africa. We want… - [HON. ZIYAMBI: No!] – I am still speaking Hon. Chair… - [HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Chair, let me interject.] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, what he is saying is that the disputing of results was not because we did not have electronic platform – [HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Can I finish my points? I have not finished my points!] – I think we will waste our time on other business... – [HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Can I finish my points Hon. Chair because I am debating. He is also debating on my point now] – No, no, no… - [*MOLOKELA-TSIYE: : Handisati ndatauraka point yangu!] – Do not try to inflame and put falsehoods where there are no false… - [HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Okay, I withdraw that point…] – Your party was given an opportunity to go to court … - [MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Do not bully me Hon. Minister because I have not said my point! Handisati ndataura point yangu!] – You cannot continue doing that! – [MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I was introducing my point and I am not being protected by the Hon. Chair according to rules! You are harassing me Hon. Minister! Handisati ndataura point yangu!] – You do not want to be harassed when you harass us … - [MOLOKELA-TSIYE: No, no, no, you are out of order Hon. Minister. You are supposed to also listen to others, we are together ka! You are not the Chair of this session! Can I finish my point?] – You cannot refer to issues that are … – [MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I wanted to finish my point and you disturbed me, handisati ndataura point yangu. What is wrong with that? I need to be protected!] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): Hon. Molokele, finish, you are protected.
MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Hon. Chair, we want an election result that is not going to be disputed. We want an election that is going to bring peace and stability to our country. So, accountability and transparency should be a guiding principle. Tallying results is not just being done in Kenya, it is actually being done in all the neighbouring countries. If you go to South Africa, there is a centre that is there from the Independent Electoral Commission where all political parties assemble and all media houses, ETV, SABC – they are there.
What it does, compared to Zimbabwe is that as the election results are coming in, it allows the people of the country, across the country to know that these are the actual results, just like in sports. When soccer is being played, they put the results that Arsenal is one and Manchester has zero and the time is this.
Noone is challenging the results because they see that is being done. I think what the Hon. Minister is missing is that where we are today, we do not have a way, if each political party is allowed to come up with its own. Then what will happen is ZANU PF will come up with its own set of results, CCC with its own set of results and that will not cause unity or stability but will cause more confusion. What the Hon. Minister is recommending is actually the opposite of stability. Hon. Minister, I think you should reconsider your position because we want a credible process that is centralised. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, the South African example is totally out because our electoral systems are different. We cannot use the South African system. The South African system is different. Secondly, I am putting it to you that if all our political parties put their houses in order, this system does not result in any dispute at all. The problem that happens is, we do not put our houses in order and we want to introduce a technology that will even make things worse for ourselves. I am putting it to you that the reason why even the election petitions are failing is because you do not have sufficient data. You do not have people out there and you want to introduce a system that is not – it is alien and it will not even help. It is actually extremely easy to hack this system and change results.
Somebody who is transmitting results from the polling station can change where it is written 100 to 1000 and we will have worse problems and issues of credibility than the current system. The current system is extremely traceable. Results are signed for at the polling station. They are transmitted. This amendment, it is a complete no.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Hon. Chair. I am actually surprised why my brother, the Hon. Minister is fuming. I wonder if this had been the attitude of everyone towards development, would we develop to reach certain levels? I am actually surprised that a Member of Parliament is busy saying, do we have the necessary technology as if it is the duty of a Member of Parliament to implement that. The duty of a Member of Parliament is to legislate. The business of implementing the legislation lies with ZEC. I know that the Hon. Minister is saying that political parties should be organised. He forgets that in terms of the Constitution, the duty to run elections transparently and efficiently lies with ZEC and not with political parties.
Let us not be afraid of new changes. Let us not be afraid of new developments. Everyone else has implemented this. Hon. Minister, besides becoming emotional has not given us any reason why that system cannot be implemented. As my colleague indicated, this transmission of electronic results will ensure transparency. It will make sure there is confidence in the system because everyone will be seeing results flowing at the same time. Unless the Hon. Minister is telling us that rigging takes place through the transmission of results, then we have got no other reason why this august House cannot pass that amendment to that clause. I am of the opinion that this clause is noble. This clause is good for this nation and this clause will ensure that we reduce the disputes that we have about electoral outcomes. Therefore, I am of the view that this clause should be considered and this clause be part and parcel of the Electoral Amendment Bill. I thank you.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Chair, I just want to read a statement here. It says “the presiding officer shall personally transmit the polling station returns electronically directly to the national tallying centre, which shall post the returns on a public portal. Where I am worried about, is the word ‘shall personally transmit’ -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Sibanda, order, order! Hon. Hwende, you are making noise.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: My argument on this one was the fact that when we mention that the presiding officer shall personally transmit, ‘personally’ what it means is - this word by itself means that one is capable to transmit that which is not right because you are doing it personally.
We must also consider where we are now in terms of technology. You cannot expect somebody who is in Binga, soon after the elections to transmit straight to Harare when you do not have the network. At the end of the elections everyone will be complaining about this saying at such and such a ward we got 200 and why is it that there, there is
2 000. This will create a lot of disputes. I pray that if this is a problem, let us park it or leave it completely.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I want to read this. We can cause danger. We can cause more problems with this than anything. It says “the presiding shall personally transmit the polling station returns electronically, directly to the national tallying centre, which shall post the returns on a public portal” If anything happens and there is a mis-post, there would be an outcry when you try to correct it. Why do you want to publish those results when they have not been confirmed? So you are sending on a public portal – it is extremely dangerous.
Hon. Members having tried to stop Hon. Mudarikwa from debating
HON. MUDARIKWA: I am not going to sit down, I was given the authority to speak – [ HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Order, Hon. Members.
HON. MUDARIKWA: A good example is what happened in Chegutu, where the presiding officer sent a message and declared that this one is duly elected, alone. You cannot hand over this election to one officer. It is saying presiding officer personally, it happened in Chegutu. You are complaining about Chegutu because of one person.
Clause 23 put and agreed to.
On Clause 24:
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, I would like to withdraw the amendments that I had moved in my name on Clause 24.
Clause 24 put and agreed to.
On Clause 25:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, I wish to withdraw amendments to Clauses 25, 26 and 27.
Clauses 25 to 27 put and agreed to.
On Clause 28:
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Chair, I want to withdraw amendments to Clause 28 in anticipation of favourable results on the next one, on voting rights. I am sure the Hon. Minister will be more generous.
HON. GONESE: On Clause 28, I am going to withdraw but not the whole of it. Clause 28 is a very long clause. I propose to withdraw 28 except for 81 (h). So, the rest is withdrawn relating to special voting. So, 81 (h) is procedure of voting for citizens outside Zimbabwe. That one is a very critical one. That is the one that is not being withdrawn.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Which one is it?
HON. GONESE: ‘The Commission shall establish voting facilities in such countries hosting a significant number of Zimbabweans who shall cast their votes for Presidential candidates only.’
As you know in the American war of independence, they said no taxation without representation. We know that most of our citizens in this country are being supported by people in the diaspora and these people do not have any voting rights whatsoever. When we look at it, Section 67 gives the right; I know that the Hon. Minister is aware of the provisions of Section 67 but for the benefit of all Hon. Members, I just want to read it so that we all know about the rights which are enshrined in the Constitution in terms of political rights.
It actually stipulates that every citizen, and I want to underline the word every citizen has the right to free and fair and regular elections and to make political choices freely and also to vote and be voted for. So, this is a right which is bestowed on all Zimbabwean citizens without exception and it does not talk of only those citizens who are in the country.
When we look at the schedule, some people have mistakenly used the argument that the schedule to the Constitution precludes people in the diaspora from voting and I want to go to it and say that it does not actually say so. In any event, the provisions in section 67 would actually take precedence and I think it is imperative to afford the Zimbabwean citizens who are living abroad with the right to vote as enshrined in that section.
In terms of the current Act, those who are at Zimbabwean embassies who are working, if you look at the current Act, it actually allows those who are outside on Government business to vote and I believe there should be no discrimination. If people who are at Zimbabwean embassies who reside outside the country are afforded the opportunity to vote, it should then be extended. It is not open ended; it is talking of those countries where there is a significant number of Zimbabweans. So, I am not necessarily talking of the Philippines or of Indonesia or some other country. This is where if it is interpreted then it would be up to the Commission to determine which countries and I have in mind countries like the United Kingdom, South Africa and Botswana. Those are the countries which have got a significant number of Zimbabweans. So that is my proposal that these people should not be deprived of the opportunity to vote for their President.
It also has to deal with the issue of our voting being polling station based so that it does not affect the election of councillors or Members of Parliament but in relation to Presidential vote, they should be allowed so that wherever they are it is taken as one constituency. Those would be my submissions Mr. Chair.
HON. BITI: Just to clarify that Hon. Gonese has withdrawn the other sections except 81(h)
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Chairman, the voting system in Zimbabwe has its regulations. Firstly, voting is polling station based. Secondly, information such as their village head should be known. Their residential address must be known in Zimbabwe; in Zimbabwe I reiterate. If the person leaves and workers in embassies or employees that are on Government duty looking after the country or representing Zimbabwe as a country are different from a person who leaves this country, goes to America and they are free to say whatever they want to say about the country, we were placed under sanctions. A few years ago we had people that were calling on sanctions to be imposed on the country. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order, I want to withdraw my point of order.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: I am saying ZEC is clear that no one is prohibited to vote. They should come here to vote in their wards. There are difficulties in the country but that should not stop them from coming to vote here in Zimbabwe. They should come here. Thank you.
*HON. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Chairman. Hon. Gonese made it clear that every Zimbabwean citizen has the right to vote when he or she reaches the age of 18. Secondly, many people in the diaspora do not have proper documents like passports and a few are not known where they live in the diaspora. Whoever goes to the diaspora and has a passport is recorded at the airport whether coming into the country or going out of the country. The diasporas pay taxes in this country and if they are doing so, they have a right to be in the country to vote.
Most Zimbabweans in the diaspora deserve equal treatment as if they are in Zimbabwe. So, for these people not to vote, then we defeat the purpose of our Constitution which says every Zimbabwean has the right to vote. Our Constitution is very clear that when a person wants to vote for a councillor or an MP, he or she should be a resident in that area where the MP or councillor lives. If they want to vote for the President, they should also be in the country, which means the President of this country should be voted for by every Zimbabwean in the country.
A person in the diaspora should have that right to vote for the President because they are Zimbabweans and because he or she is not voting for an MP or councillor. I see no reason why a person in the diaspora should not vote. They should all vote and by so doing, we will have followed our Constitution which says every Zimbabwean who is 18 years and above is eligible to vote. Thank you.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you very much Hon. Chairman. I think we have heard Hon. Gonese and he was very clear that the Constitution of Zimbabwe allows every Zimbabwean citizen the right to vote. A right is not a privilege, whether that citizen is in Botswana or South Africa, the fact that he is a Zimbabwean citizen, he or she must be given the opportunity to exercise his or her right. It is the responsibility of us here as legislators to make sure that we put mechanisms or we make laws that allow our Zimbabwean citizens in the diaspora the opportunity to vote and that opportunity cannot be taken away from them because it is their right.
I am sure that all of us here as legislators, we are here to make laws and we want every Zimbabwean, even your brother in America Hon. Ziyambi, he must vote because he is a Zimbabwean citizen. The issue is that every citizen of Zimbabwe has a right to vote. I am sure we must take this matter seriously. Right now as we speak, all our parents including all of us as MPs and the country, we are receiving money from citizens in the diaspora every month, if not every day. We want their money but we do not want them to vote. My issue is very clear that citizens of Zimbabwe locally and internationally must be given the opportunity to vote because it is their democratic right. Thank you.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Hon. Chair. Section 67 says every Zimbabwean has got the right to vote. I have a problem on the administration who should decide how these people should vote. I mean the management part of it. There is a thinking that people go and vote at their embassies. I think if we do it that way, it brings an outcry because if a ruling party has embassies, it sends its people there. So, those in the diaspora, if they vote positively with the ruling party, there will be an outcry. If we are talking about votes, there must be transparency and after voting, there should not be any disputes.
Even a person who is already in Zimbabwe has the right to vote but if you are living in Chiendambuya and your relative in Binga dies on a voting day, if you do not go at your polling station within your own ward, you will not be able to vote even if you have the right to vote. We are simply saying you will not vote when you are not on your polling centre. That being the case, I submit that at the present moment and our situation, we cannot be in a position to not administer votes, which are coming from external at this point in time.
Let us just say a person who is in Zimbabwe should vote in Zimbabwe and those who registered to vote in Zimbabwe, on a voting day should be in Zimbabwe and exercise their right. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Diaspora vote was talked about by both the President and the Speaker. Why are these Hon. Members afraid of speaking about it? Mozambique, Malawi and other small countries are doing it but we think we are not capable of doing that. As SADC countries, we agreed that we should do the same in terms of elections. What are we afraid of? Let the people exercise their right to vote. If it is expensive, we can go to ‘Go Fund, Diaspora Vote’ and then the diaspora funds us so that the process is carried out
*HON. CHIDZIVA: Diaspora vote is important because all of us here have relatives in the diaspora and they have the right to vote. They would like to participate in building their country. If we agree on a polling station there, our people will vote for the President. Other countries engage in diaspora voting here in Zimbabwe. How and where do they do it? We should allow eligible voters to vote in the diaspora.
HON. C. MOYO: I think what is very important is the number of millions who are outside the country. We cannot exclude millions of people that are outside the country – we cannot suppress that right to vote. I want us to concentrate on the millions who are outside the country and surely, the administrative issues will then come after, like the issue of polling stations – what is important is the number of people outside who must participate democratically in our country’s process. Let us consider the number of people who must partake especially on the Presidential candidate rather than on the Councillor and MP.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: It looks like you are all repeating.
HON. HWENDE: I think we must understand and appreciate the role of Parliament. We have a constitutional duty to ensure that the Constitution of Zimbabwe is protected. The Constitution of Zimbabwe is clear on who is entitled to vote. The people that are in the diaspora are Zimbabweans and they are entitled to vote. For us to sit hear in this Parliament at 2222 hours arguing to limit the rights of Zimbabweans is pathetic.
We should not play to the gallery and always say that we are affected by sanctions is not good. We cannot regulate ourselves and make laws that ensure that we have uncontested elections. Even if the Hon. Ziyambi comes back to Parliament through a contested election – it is not good. People are not getting enough salaries because of disputed elections. You are denying people to do a simple thing – just going to watch the printing of ballot papers. Parliament must do their duty and protect the Constitution and ensure that the people in the diaspora are permitted to vote.
ZEC is on record that they are prepared to allow people in the diaspora to vote. We attend ZEC meetings as interested parties. Their position is very clear - we should make laws so that diasporians can vote. If this amendment is not passed, it is because of people like Hon. Chinotimba who are making noise. That is why you lost in the primary elections.
HON. MATARANYIKA: I think my brothers and sisters from my other mother have this wrong notion to think that the diaspora belongs to them.
The other wrong notion is that they misinterpret the Constitution which allows every Zimbabwean to vote without stating from where. For example, how do I reach out to diasporans to vote for me or my party? They want me to go to England to go and talk to them in England. They need to explain that. I shall not – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I shall not go to England. I do not like the cold weather in England…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Members, I gave you an opportunity to talk, now you do not want to listen to others. I will chase you out. Please, allow him to proceed.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Until and unless they tell us the mechanism on how we can have a level playing field in terms of our reach to the disaporans, some of us are on sanctions – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I do not even know how he knows that I am not on sanctions list but I am on sanctions. The bottom line is that I do not want to go to England or America to talk to my people. They are allowed to vote as long as they are prepared to come and register and come and vote here in Zimbabwe.
As far as I am concerned, my interpretation of the Constitution is yes, they are allowed. They are free to come and vote but the question is where? The Constitution is silent on that issue. So please, let us make it clear and let us rest this case once and for all that no-one is being disallowed to vote. Anyone who wants to vote, as long as you qualify and meet the criteria as stated in the Constitution, you have to be a Zimbabwean and you have to be registered.
In terms of where they can vote, there is a gap. Those people who are in the diaspora, I know a lot of them who come every time we have an election and they cast their vote in Zimbabwe. Why can they not come and cast their votes in Zimbabwe? Mr. Chairman, let us put this point to rest once and for all unless they can come up with a plausible mechanism of making this a reality to everyone. It does not matter whether it is admissible but the bottom part is that we are faced with a challenge and they have to explain how I can reach out to the diasporans considering that I am on sanctions. I am not allowed to go to the cold Britain or the America. They should explain to us how we can reach those diasporans. I thank you Mr. Chairman.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I am not going to call upon those who were making noise. If you make noise, I am not going to call you.
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. The war of liberation was fought primarily on two principal grounds. The issue of land and the land question to black people in this country and the second issue of one man, one woman, one vote. That cardinal right of decolonization of one man, one vote was not restricted to where the comrade was, to where the gorilla was. After all, the struggle for liberation itself was globarised. There were comrades in Botswana, Mozambique, Tanzania, Kenya. Our struggle for liberation was funded by the entire international community, the West, in countries like the NORDIC Sweden funded the liberation struggle in this country. If the struggle was democratized, if the struggle was fought from outside, it is a negation on the liberation struggle that those who purport to come from a party that carries the liberation flag are fighting against the right of black Zimbabweans to vote.
Mr. Chairman, this country receives over USD 1.5 billion in the form of diapora remittances. In fact, as a matter of fact, diaspora remittances are more than the foreign direct investment that this country receives of around $200 million. Diaspora remittances are more than the USD500 million we receive in the form of overseas development assistance. Therefore, again, it is a challenge that we are accepting remittances from the diaspora community but we are not allowing them to vote.
The Magna Carter was founded on the principle that there is no taxation without representation. We are taxing these people but we are denying them representation. Section 67 of the Constitution is very clear Mr. Chairman, it says every citizen has a right to vote, a right to participate in politics. There is no restriction on the domicilium citandi. The point we are making Mr. Chairman is, diaspora remittance is a grey tax. Our relatives are paying our school fees because we cannot pay. The economy has collapsed, so it is a gray tax.
Mr. Chairman, we have said let us restrict the voting to the Presidential election. Is it not embarrassing that Mozambicans vote for their President here in Herbert Chitepo? South Africans vote here in Second Street. Botswana residents vote here in Highlands. Namibians vote, Tanzanians vote, Zambians vote, Malawians vote, Kenyans vote, people from the Democratic Republic of Congo vote in this country. I am appealing to my esteemed brother, Minister of Justice, I know you have relatives in Australia, America and South Africa. Minister of Justice, I know you support the provisions in the Constitution that gives rights to dual citizenship. Let your grandfather, your grandchild who is in Australia have the right to vote. I thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
*HON. MADZIMURE: Mr. Chairman, the issue here is very simple. As Hon. Biti has said, in SADC, only Zimbabwe does not allow its citizens who are outside Zimbabwe to vote. It means that Zimbabwe hates its citizens who are outside. Recently, Zimbabwe has posted teachers in Rwanda who also want to vote but they do not have a place to vote. The cost of voting is not on the person who wants to vote. The cost of voting is on the Government. That is the responsibility of the Government. As Parliament, we must create an enabling environment that allows people to vote. Therefore, our budget must have a component of those voting from the diaspora. Zimbabwe has teachers that are teaching in Rwanda who also want to vote. There is nowhere where they can vote and the cost of voting should not be borne by the person who wants to vote but by the Government.
As Parliament, we should create a conducive environment that enables them to vote. Our budget should have that component for the diaspora vote. This country is being carried by people in the diaspora. Our old people are living as a result of diaspora remittances. There is no-one who is employed by the Government who can be surviving on what they are being paid by the Government.
As Hon. Members of Parliament, we are able to live because of our children in the diaspora, so we will be acting in bad faith if the Government should disenfranchise the diaspora vote. It shows that the Government is afraid of the people, so what type of a Government is this that knows that we have millions in South Africa who should participate in the governance process of their country? I see no reason or difficulty with regards the diaspora vote. Why Zimbabwe alone?
Every time we go to the international forum, such things are discussed and Zimbabwe wants to be part of an international community but on the other hand, it is disenfranchising the diaspora vote. The Government is afraid that the diaspora voters will not vote for them as the ruling party then they should do things that will endear her to the diaspora vote. This vote is very clear and everyone should be given their right to vote and should exercise it.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Mr. Chair, I am sorry about the emotions that were raised, I got emotional because I once lived in the diaspora. My understanding Hon. Chair, from the time when we had the GNU also called the Inclusive Government, there came from the President’s office the Diaspora Policy which I believe the current Government is improving. In regard to this policy, we are all accepting the money that they are contributing and economic opportunities that we are affording so that they can help the development of this country.
If we do not allow them to participate in these elections, it would mean that we have limited the other opportunity to development. It does not only mean that development should be in the form of funds. They should be given a chance to participate in this country’s democracy and by so doing, they can bring in the experience that they are gaining in that particular country when we want them to participate. These are programmes that are being put in place for those that are in the diaspora so that they can contribute towards the development of Zimbabwe and that they can continue looking after the economy of Zimbabwe.
In conclusion Mr. Chair, there was once mention of the fact that there are some people who fail to go and campaign in those particular countries. The Minister of Justice once said that you are failing to post results because we do not have adequate agents. We are not helping political parties to go and campaign but we are putting in place laws that enable all Zimbabweans to vote as enshrined in the Constitution. We should not be in this august House to come up with a law that a Minister can then fail to use their own means to go and campaign in the diaspora.
Lastly, give them the chance to vote in the Presidential election because they require to come down here to vote in terms of the ward-based polling. Presidential elections are for the entire country and are not confined to a particular ward, so they can vote for their preferred presidential candidate. It is my clarion call to allow this House to consider seriously the issue of presidential vote.
*HON. MURAI: I did not think that we would spend a long time on the diaspora vote because the SADC Protocol which we are a signatory to allows the diaspora vote. All the neighbouring countries in SADC allow the diaspora vote. The Minister may not dispute this because he knows that we are a signatory to the SADC Diaspora Protocol. Article 8 talks about the diaspora vote, so as a country we should consider the number of people that we have outside the country who should participate in Zimbabwe’s election because they have a good number out there.
We have incorporated them in the Diaspora Policy when we receive their remittances and we require everything that they are contributing towards the development of Zimbabwe, so we should open up the voting system to them. Thank you.
+HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: What I would want to express is that there are some people from where I come from in Matebeleland –
Hon. Madzimure having been drinking some fluid
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Madzimure, I saw you drinking something – [HON. MADZIMURE: Yes Mr. Chairman.] – Please take it out.
+HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: My emphasis was on us who are coming from Matebeleland South, it is known that most of our relatives and friends, especially those who are assisting us with our day-to-day living regardless of where we are coming from, I will give an example of someone who lives in Tsholotsho or Lupane, Gwanda, or any part of Matabeleland North or South. Most of the people who come from that area, we should take note that most of their children are in the diaspora, especially in South Africa.
This is real Mr. Speaker Sir. We cannot continue hiding behind the issue of sanctions. It is high time we allow those who are in the diaspora to vote. Let us have diaspora votes coming in. Let us allow people who are in South Africa, Zambia, and Botswana to come vote. People from Matabeleland South and Matabeleland North depend on people who are living around those neighboring countries I have just mentioned, so it is against this background Mr. Speaker, that we should allow those who are in the diaspora to vote. Most of them travel all the way from South Africa to come and feed their children or their families. Therefore, my question is what is so difficult about us allowing them to vote? We should allow diaspora vote today, let us have the diaspora vote this year as we do our harmonized elections. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MARKHAM: Hon. Chair, there is no way that we can have an election leaving out a million people who contribute close to 1,9 billion USD. Hon. Chairman, you would think that those who rigged in an election would know to keep quiet when it is time to keep quiet like Hon. Chinotimba.
You cannot leave an election and say that the election is free and fair when you leave out 1 million of the population who contribute 1,9 billion dollars to this economy. I would like to remind this House particularly those that make a lot of noise; we are currently engaging the West to try and reopen channels to restructure our debt. The first pillar of our debt is good governance and good governance is the elections and we are now trying to stop one million from voting.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I would like to thank you for indulging everyone, this is a subject that we have debated many times and it has always been like this. So, because we are not finishing these amendments today, we can always debate it, let us defer it, and move on.
Clause 28 deferred.
On New Clause 29:
HON. GONESE: I am going to withdraw the proposed Clause 29.
New Clause 29 withdrawn.
On New Clause 30:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The proposed Clause 30 is withdrawn.
On New Clause 31:
HON. GONESE: Deferred.
New Clause 31 deffered.
On New Clause 32:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move the amendment standing in my name by that the Bill is amended on page 8 after new clause 31 by the insertion of the following—
32 Insertion of new sections in Cap. 2:13
“The principal Act is amended by the insertion after section 134 of the following section—
135 Abuse of public resources
“(1) In this section—
“public officer” means a person holding or acting in a paid office in the service of the State;
“public resources” has the meaning given to it in the Public Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19].
(2) Any candidate for election who, being a public officer, directly or indirectly, by himself or herself or by another person, uses or expends public resources for the purposes of the election in contravention of the Public Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19] shall be guilty of the offense of abuse of public resources and liable to a fine not exceeding level fourteen or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years or to both such fine and such imprisonment.”.
And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
I think Hon. Minister you should hear this one. I believe it is a very important Clause and we need to make sure that we do not have public officials abusing public resources during the election period.
It is also important especially as we move towards accountability and transparency. If you check in all other countries, they are moving along that way. It is only fair that we should separate State functions and political functions – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Haiti.] – but why are you saying kuti haiite Hon. Minister? I think it is very correct because why should we have an unfair advantage over others?
HON. ZIYAMBI: You cannot unclothe a President and say just because it is campaign time that everything that he does in terms of campaigning, he must do it personally.
It is the standard practice that all the incumbents, there are certain things that will be conflated, it happens anywhere in the world. You cannot unclothe anybody because you are approaching an election. You will notice that even when an election is done in other countries, the incumbent President may continue for two to three months. So, this Clause will send a lot of people to prison, it is a dangerous clause.
HON. GONESE: It is not a naked provision, it says ‘when in contravention’.
HON. ZIYAMBI: No, it is a dangerous clause indirectly or directly by himself or another person uses …
HON. GONESE: Zvanzi in contravention of the Public Finance Management Act saka if it is in contravention of the Public Finance Management Act, so, there is a caveat Hon. Minister, it is not like a naked provision. It says, ‘if it is only’…
HON. ZIYAMBI: Does the Public Finance Management Act speak about anything to do with campaigning?
HON. GONESE: No, no, no, we are saying use of public resources in contravention with that – that is the only one that attracts censure. – [*HON. ZIYAMBI: Mmmm yakashata iyi!] -
HON. MADZIMURE: Actually Hon. Minister, our law does not allow a Public Officer to do the campaigning – it does not allow that; to use Government resources for the purposes of campaigning, it does not allow it. The Act does not allow a public official to campaign using the resources that are allocated to that individual. So, I think that is very noble and reasonable where we are trying to safeguard the property of Government from any abuse.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, what Hon. Gonese was trying to say is, the only reference to the Public Finance Management Act pertains to the resources. Otherwise, this clause is not good for anyone. Hon. Chair, this is one of the clauses the same as the one that we did, the Mudede clause. It may appear good today but believe you me, history will repeat itself, that we will sit in this august House and say, this thing is not good. – [*HON. R. NYATHI: We will fire you once you use your wife’s official car.] – Why I am saying so?
We had a Government of National Unity (GNU) at some point. Those who were in the GNU, continued behaving the way they were behaving before elections until after elections when they left office. So, you cannot do this, it will render Government dysfunctional. I think this is dangerous, it will incapacitate the work of Government. So, Hon. Chair, I propose that we remove this clause and move to he next one.
Amendment to Clause put and negatived.
On New Clause 33:
HON. GONESE: I move the amendment standing in my name that the Bill is amended on page 8 by the insertion of the following new clause after new clause 32—
33 Amendment of section 160G of Cap 2:13
Section 160 G (“Access to public broadcasting media”) of the principal Act is amended in subsection (2)—
- by the insertion of the following paragraphs—
“(f) a code of conduct to govern media practitioners’ conduct during
elections and the penalties for contravening the code.
(g) that appropriate measures, as may be prescribed, are provided
for to prevent any form of abuse or curtailment of the right of access
to the broadcasting services.”.
- by the insertion of the following subsection after subsection (3)—
“(3) The media shall, as far as practicable, provide information in officially recognised languages or endeavour to translate.”.
And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
I think this is a very good endeavour Hon. Minister. – [HON. MEMBERS: Iyi yakanaka iyi! Iyi yakanaka iyi!] -
HON. ZIYAMBI: Why are you worried? These days Hon. Chair, I do not know why we continuously get fixated that public media must do one, two, three. Do you know why I am saying so? This was an appropriate clause 10 to 15 years ago but currently; I do not think that anyone needs public media … - [*AN HON. MEMBER: Aaaa inodiwa!] – Let me explain, ZBC nowadays because of social media, even ZBC needs to reform … - [*HON. HWENDE: Chitiburitsaiwoka paZBC pacho!] – I am saying that we are simply flogging something that we were saying 20 years ago.
Currently, if you notice, the way we campaigned even in 2013, we did not have widespread use of social media like WhatsApp in 2013 but if you look at how we are now campaigning, it is totally different. So, the prejudice about State media, I do not know, let us park it. I will consult those people to see what - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can we defer it properly.
HON. GONESE: I move the deferment of that particular provision.
Clause 33 deferred.
On Clause 34:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move the amendments in my name that the principal Act is amended in section 166 (“Interpretation in Part XXIII”) by the repeal of the section and substitution of— 166 Interpretation in Part XXIII “In this Part— “constituency”, in relation to an election of a councillor, means the ward in which the election took place; “respondent”, subject to section 169(3), means the President, Member of Parliament or councillor whose election or qualification for holding office is complained of in an election petition.”. And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What do you mean, to say petition in relation to a councillor?
HON. MUSHORIWA: Yes, because it is not stated. We just want to make sure that it is stated because a councillor, you refer to a particular ward. So that is what we were just bringing into the Act.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Why would you want to refer on the definition section, say a constituency in relation to a councillor is it a ward?
HON. MUSHORIWA: You will realise that the definition of a ward is necessary.
HON. ZIYAMBI: What is wrong with the definition that is there? Because, respondent, meaning the President, the Member of Parliament or councillor whose election or qualification for holding office is complained of in an election petition, what is wrong with that?
HON. MUSHORIWA: The issue is pertaining to the – because generally we have actually noted this Act, tends to omit the complaints per ward.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The moment you make reference to a councillor, you have referred to a ward. You cannot then say constituency in relation to an election of a councillor means a ward. What are you trying to say? You are confusing things even worse. The way it is – the way it is, it wants to qualify who is a respondent in an election petition. Respondent is either the President, Member of Parliament or councillor. Saka kuti uzoisa definition yeconstituency kuward, ko kune President waregerei kuzoti constituency. It is already covered. It is not ZEC but munhu akahwina, who is the President, MP or councillor.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Its alright. We can withdraw those amendments.
Amendments to Clause 34, by Hon. Mushoriwa withdrawn.
On Clause 35:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move the amendments in my name that “The principal Act is amended in section 169 (“Notice of election petition to be served on respondent”) by the repeal of the section and substitution of— 169 Service of election petition “(1) Within ten days after presentation of an election petition, the petitioner shall cause a copy of the petition, together with notice of its presentation and of the names and addresses of the proposed sureties, to be served on the respondent. (2) Where an election petition complains of an act or omission on the part of the Commission or any employee or agent of the Commission or any public officer, the petitioner shall cause the petition and other documents referred to in subsection (1) to be served also on— (a) the Commission; and (b) the employee, agent or public officer, if his or her identity is known and it is practicable to effect service on him or her. (3) Where an election petition and other documents have been served on a person referred to in subsection (2), that person shall have the same rights and responsibilities in regard to the petition as the respondent.”. And the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
This one is just cleaning up the question of our petitions on disputes. I think the proviso that we have actually put there is meant to tide things up.
HON. ZIYAMBI: So, you are just changing. The first one you recouched it. –[HON. BITI: You want to run away from the 10 days and so forth] – inotauravo 10 days futi iyoyi.
HON. MUSHORIWA: It does not have.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Haina?
HON.MUSHORIWA: The couching Hon. Minister makes it actually easier to follow. - [HON. MEMBERS: Consulting each other] –
HON. ZIYAMBI: Ndozvandati ingori recouching. Do you know what it now says, the petition ava kuti where a petition – the first one is okay, the second one arikuti where the complaint of an Act or omission on the part of a commission. This one, Hon. Chair, it is okay we can take it.
Amendment to Clause 35 put and agreed to.
Clause 35, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 36:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I put the amendment standing in my name that the Bill is amended on page 8 by the insertion of the following new clause after new clause 35 -
‘The principal Act is amended in section 171(‘Provisions as to trial of election petition”) by the insertion of the following sub-sections after sub-section (2) -
(3) Any question of fact to be determined on the trial of an election petition shall be decided on a balance of probabilities.
(4) At the trial of an election petition the Electoral Court shall endeavour to determine the real issues raised by the petition and, while observing the rules of natural justice, shall not be unreasonably restricted by procedural technicalities.’ And the subsequent sections shall accordingly be renumbered.
This one Chairman, I think it is actually very important and progressive. We need matters to be decided on merit rather than to then have technicalities.
HON. GONESE: I want to support the amendment proposed by Hon. Mushoriwa and I think, Hon. Minister, I know that his heart is in the right place. He will appreciate the importance of this particular provision. What we appealing to the Hon. Minister is that a case should be reviewed as it is. Laws should help those who go to court. You see the provision talks of the observance of the rules of natural justice.
What the amendment is doing Minister is that the court which is trying an election petition is going to deal with the merits, the substance and not get bogged down with unnecessary technicalities. Simple and straight forward and I do not see anything bad about that Minister.
HON. BITI: Civil matters, Mr. Chairman, are determined on a balance of probability so an election petition is a civil matter to be determined on a balance of probabilities and the courts are trained to look at the evidence, but case law now, particularly under the present court, has elevated the test to prove beyond reasonable doubt, but proof beyond reasonable doubt cannot happen. Only the prosecution in a criminal case can do that. So let us go back to proof on a balance of probabilities. For me that is key.
HON. GONESE: If we put this into law, the intention of the legislature becomes very clear that it is proof of the balance of probabilities. We do not want the judges to be able to interpret what they want and put what they want like what they did on the case that was talked about. You know the law, proof of the balance of probabilities. We want the intention of the legislature to be in black and white. Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Can we defer that one, we do not need it. The way it is crafted is okay.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, this needs consultation.
Amendment to Clause 37 by Hon. Gonese deferred.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I move the amendment in my name and Hon. Chair, this one is a simple matter in the sense that it seeks to just define irregularity so that at least it is actually specific because if you look at 177 as it is currently put, it is not broad enough.
HON. ZIYAMBI: The way it is put is alright but what you want has got a remedy elsewhere.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Withdraw Hon. Mushoriwa.
Amendment to Clause 37 by Hon. Mushoriwa put and negatived.
On Clause 38:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, this one is a simple matter. Petitions are supposed to be dealt with within six months and one of the major challenges we have realised is that quite a number of times, the legal practitioner for some reason or the other sleep on duty and they fail to make sure that the petitions are dealt with. The legal practitioner should, in a way, pay some cost for sleeping on duty.
HON. ZIYAMBI: It is not necessary.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mushoriwa can you move to withdraw that one? We cannot legislate this.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Mushoriwa, so you will find another lawyer to go to court for the court to determine whether your lawyer was doing his job well or not. That is because you are saying here ‘unless the court being satisfied’ – are you going to make that application personally or you will look for another lawyer to argue your case?
Amendment to Clause 37 put and negatived.
On Clause 38:
HON. GONESE: This covers a lot. Assumption of office by the President elect – it covers a lot of critical issues. I propose that we defer consideration of this particular clause to allow the Hon. Minister to consult.
New Clause 38 deferred.
New Clause 39 withdrawn.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Tuesday, 30th May, 2023. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker, we had a marathon session, I am kindly requesting for 10 minutes health break.
Business was suspended at 1146 hours and resumed at 1205
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Seven minutes past Twelve o’clock a.m. until Tuesday 30th May, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 18th May, 2023.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
APOLOGIES FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Before I go to the Ministers present, I have quite a long list of Ministers who have tendered apologies in respect of today’s sitting, that is Thursday 18th May, 2023;
Hon. General Rtd. Dr. C. D. G. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care; Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. M. Chombo, Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance and Economic Development; Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs; Hon. F. Mhona, Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development; Hon. E. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation,;Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Prof. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development; Hon. R. Machingura, Deputy Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development; Hon. S. Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. Mangwiro, Deputy Minister of Health and Child Care.
In the Chamber today, we have the Hon. Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. Zhemu Soda; Hon. Minister M. Mavhunga, Minister of State for Mashonaland Central Province and Hon. D. Musabayana, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. MANYAU: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. I posed the question last time and I was given a response. On further research, I came up with something new. So, my question to the Hon. Minister is; as a country, do we have programmes that we are carrying out for people that are living with disability like looking for markets outside the country? A lot of stuff like handicrafts are bought by those that are outside the country by the whites. Is there any programme that is being conducted so that if we tell our constituents they can benefit? If we have such a programme, the country will also benefit in foreign currency and people will have a better livelihood. Thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. DR. MUSABAYANA): Thank you Mr. President. I would want to thank Hon. Sen. Manyau for her question which is a pertinent one. It is important because when the President says ‘leave no place and no-one behind’, it means that even those that live with disabilities are also to become part and parcel of development programmes. When we look at the economy of the country, they should be considered. In line with the issue of the need for them to sell their handicrafts outside the country, we have our department or our organization, Zimtrade and it deals primarily with the trade of external buyers.
The issue of handicrafts which you talked about; you are correct. We have a lot of places in communal lands where people manufacture handicrafts which were sent to countries like Germany and other European countries where such handicrafts, crotchets or sculptures are mainly bought. Even the Expo 2020 in Dubai, we also had a pavilion where Zimbabwean people, especially women, were exhibiting their handicrafts. In so doing, we will be assisting them and we will assist them by paying the exhibition fees.
In 2020, we were in Durban in South Africa where we also afforded people who make handicrafts to be able to exhibit their wares which will then secure markets for exports. We are working in line with Government’s policy through devolution to each province so that where there are desk offices that attend to people that would want to sell or export their wares, those that have their wares who may be living with disabilities or able-bodied, they can do that.
In Marondera, there is a place called Mawachi and they are into crotchet of doilies which they sell outside the country. There are others that use their feet to draw some artifacts which they sell to countries outside Zimbabwe. If there are such people, they should go to our offices or Government offices that are near them so that they may be assisted on what course of action they should take together with Zimtrade so that they can sell their wares. Thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to ask my question. My question is addressed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development. I want to start by congratulating him for bringing on Hwange No. 7 and 8 onto the grid. However, the information available suggest that there are 2000 megawatts available through independent power producers. My question is; what is the Ministry doing in seeing to it that these IPPs produce power as per their mandate or as per their agreements with the Government because this is affecting the Government’s thrust of ‘Zimbabwe is open for business’ in a very negative way?
I also appreciate from him whether we have got the correct IPPs wanting to do the job – are they having any challenges? If so, what is the Ministry and the Minister doing to alleviate those challenges so that Zimbabwe as a country with our thirst for development, we have adequate power? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Mr. President. Let me also take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Member who is our Chief for asking a very pertinent question and also to appreciate him for the good commendation that he has made for the progress that the country has actually made in terms of dealing with our power supply situation which has been a cause for concern for quite some time. It is true that Unit 7 at Hwange completed what we call reliability test.
It was run on commissioning tests where they were testing on the turbine running capacity which was successful and also the boiler hydraulics was successful. What happened after running it for the period in which they were supposed to do the tests, they had to take it out of the grid in order to do evaluations by the technicians before the unit would finally be available on commercial basis. We now expect that unit to be brought back on the grid on the 22nd of this month, which is next week Monday. That is when they are expecting Unit 7 to be brought after completing the works that they have been undertaking on that unit.
Unit 8 was synchronised on Thursday last week and it was run for about three hours until they discovered that there was an area that they needed to attend to and it was briefly taken off the grid. They have been working on the unit and according to what they had pre-determined at a time when they took it off the grid, the unit was supposed to be tied back to the grid today. We are yet to hear from the power utility whether that has happened. We now expect that we will be having contribution of 600 megawatts that will be coming from the expansion project any time before the end of this month; the 300 megawatts coming on commercial availability and the 300 megawatts from Unit 8 still on commercial test.
That is going to assist us in a big way given that for Kariba, we have managed to increase generation from the power station with the additional water allocation which was made after the two utilities, ZESCO and ZESA met with the ZRA who managed the water resources and agreed to improve on the water allocations. As for today, the maximum that was being generated from Kariba was getting up to 800 megawatts.
I now come to the question that was raised with regards to about 200 megawatts with the independent power producers where the Hon. Senator is suggesting that ZESA does not seem to be doing much to getting access to the 2000 megawatts. I do not think that information is correct Mr. President, we are only aware of about 1.2 megawatts of a power station that was recently completed in Seke which our technicians from ZETDC are working with the investor and are currently seized with in order to bring that to the grid.
I am aware that in terms of the capacity that is registered with ZERA, it could be in excess of the 2000 that he is referring to but this is what has just been licenced by ZERA and not much has happened with the independent power producers. Again, the question as to what the Government is doing to ensure that if there are any challenges with independent producers, the challenges are being attended to; you might be aware that previously, the major constraint or set back was on currencies, most of the investors who were coming into the country were not amenable to immediately develop their projects until the Government made last year the availability of Government implement agreement, which now provides a mitigation against a currency convertibility and also mitigation against performance by the off-taker which is our power utility ZETDC.
So, that has now been taken care of and also to the independent power producers who are coming to invest, there are quite a number of incentives that are being provided by the Government of Zimbabwe. I will refer you to the National Renewable Energy Policy which was launched by His Excellency the President in 2020, it spells quite a number of incentives that are on offer by the Government, one of them being access to land. When an investor is coming to Zimbabwe, with the intention of establishing a power station, access to land is provided by the Government of Zimbabwe. Over and above that, we also give rebates for importation of materials that are used for establishment of renewable energy projects and in some instances, tax holidays can be offered to investors.
We also have another facility which we call net mistering facility where any investor, including households that have potential to produce electricity from their solar systems mounted on their roof tops. Those that are producing in excess of what they require, there is not a facility to sell the excess to the grid. We are coming up with all these innovations in order to improve supply of electricity to the grid. The advantages of enrolling on the net metering facilities, you will not tax yourself to procure storage facilities. When you are generating your electricity you will be banking or you are supplying power into the grid and at a time when you will require to use your power that you would have send into the grid, you can always have access to that and you do not require immediately to pay or to procure equipment for storage. That is one of the advantages.
Also, for equipment or projects that are below a threshold of 5 megawatts, you will not go through the rigorous process of licencing that ZERA normally requires. So, there is a lot that Government is doing to assist the independent power producers to come and develop their projects in the country in terms of incentives that are being offered and also we continue to engage with them to understand if they are having any challenges so that the Government makes an intervention with regards to those problems or challenges that they may be facing.
We are also involved as Government in many other projects to try to alleviate the challenge of power shortages in the country apart from the involvement of the independent power producers. You might be aware that after unit 8, that ZESA is currently working on, they shall be proceeding to do a rehabilitation of the existing power station to give it a new life with the hope that it will be brought back to the installed capacity of 920 megawatts. There are a lot of interventions including our participation on the Batoka which is also on course and also our involvement in Mozambique through the Mphanda Nkuwa project which is currently being considered. So, there are a lot of interventions that the Government is making with the hope that we will have adequate power supply and again to ensure that the economy continues to move. I thank you Mr. President.
HON. SEN. CHIEF MAKUMBE: Thank you Mr. President, I want to appreciate the response that has been given to me by the Hon. Minister. Suffice to ask this other question and say are there any timelines as to when we can expect these IPPs or grid soon? The market has so many IPPs who have been licenced but when are they coming on board to give us power as a country? We need power. Are there any indications as to when we are going to have power from these so called IPPs?
HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. President. By their nature, the IPPs are private sector investments and I would not want to be tempted to give the timelines as to when these private sector investments will be available. What we have done that and what we are doing is, like I earlier on indicated, to continue to engage with them and listen to them in case there are challenges that we might as Government attend to. I am aware that we have a register that gives a number of between 80 to 90 licenced investments by the independent power producers.
In the past, it has been an issue of incentives which they required but with the promulgation of the policy which I have just explained, we provided some incentives and we have also dealt with one of their risks being the inability by the power utility to meet the financial obligations at a time when these projects would have been development and they are selling the power to the power utility. That has been dealt with through the Government implementation agreement. We will continue as Government to review the licences, those that would have failed to develop their projects within the given timelines, the licences will be scrapped so that we also free the substations. Whenever a project is licenced, there is a grid impact study which is conducted to ascertain whether the power that will be generated from a project can be accepted by the nearest substation which will be nearer to the project. In many instances, the projects are developing only up to some stages, like up to a stage of obtaining a licence and nothing then happens thereafter.
We are also aware of the speculative tendencies by some of these project proponents. They do not have the adequate funds to develop their projects. We will continue to have those projects on our registers but nothing happening on the ground. We are aware and this time for all the licences that ZERA, the regulator is issuing. They are very strict in terms of ascertaining whether that project will develop to the final stages. They would want to be assured that the project has adequate funding. Those that would not have exhibited potential to raise the funding, up to a given period, the licences will be scrapped off. This is what we are doing as Government to listen to the IPPs and to also scrape off those licences that would have not proceeded to development of the projects but these are private sector led projects. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Minister for the explanation and the policies that they are implementing to ensure that Zimbabwean residents have adequate power. My question now is, are you promising the winter wheat farmers that they are going to have adequate power in order to have a good harvest? With power outages, the crop will dry up due to inadequacy of water.
*HON. SODA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to thank the Hon. Senator for a good question which had allowed me to take this opportunity to promise the wheat farmers that winter wheat would adequately be taken care of through the provision of adequate electricity. The required 85 000 hectares as indicted by the Ministry of Agriculture, our Ministry has taken note of that and we had discussions with ZESA and the division of ZETDC that there will be 120 megawatts that has been set aside specifically for the growing of wheat. Such arrangements also enclose the extended demand of electricity. If you look at our Kariba power station, it had an average of 350 kilowatts. ZESA then sat down and had discussions with the Zambian power utility. Now, from April up to August 2023, we have an increased supply of 500 megawatts from Kariba. The power generation was increased to 562 megawatts. Be that as it may, today, we are receiving from Kariba 800 megawatts so that the wheat farmers are able to access electricity for them to irrigate the winter wheat crop.
Another arrangement that was done by ZESA in order to provide farmers with electricity is that the farmers are now in clusters. A farmer who wants to grow wheat should go to ZESA in the area where they are farming and notify them that they will be growing wheat so that should we have inadequate power supplies, such farmers are given priority and allowed to get the electricity regardless of the fact that there may not be sufficient power. In short, there is sufficient electricity provision for wheat farmers but there are times when vandalism can also rear its ugly head. It is one of the problems that we are facing. People are into stealing copper wires and some also destroy transformers and steal the power poles.
When people see that there is load shedding, there would be some mischievous people who would have committed crime of vandalising copper cables and stealing poles. As a result, there will be power load shedding. Should you be one of the farmers who had notified ZESA that you are into winter wheat growing, you will be assisted. Please inform ZESA as soon as possible because there may be challenges that may have occurred because the transformer would have been destroyed or it is because of load shedding.
ZESA also took steps to assist farmers because it is known that farmers only receive payment once they sell their crops. So the farmers are encouraged to go and enter into stop orders with ZESA in the local area so that they are given power. The farmers should be honest enough to also pay for the power that they would have used. After such arrangements have been made, they have harvested and they are involved into side marketing that has a bad effect on ZESA. This leads to underdevelopment of the country. We are destroying our own selves. We should own up and encourage those that are into farming that as soon as they enter into a stop order arrangement, they must pay as and when the time is right. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Hon. President. My apologies, I may pose a question that has already been posed because I came late. What has caused the black-market rate to go up as it has? The salary increase we got a few months ago has been eroded. Before the salary increase, the workers were earning much more than what they are now actually earning. There is now hyperinflation, prices have gone up and people are being hurt by what has been happening. May I be enlightened as to what steps the Government is taking to ensure that the parallel rate does not go overboard and that prices should be reduced to make basic commodities affordable to those that earn little. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you President of the Senate. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for his question, which is a pertinent one. The issue of price increases is quite disturbing to the Government. In the past two Cabinet meetings, it was top on our agenda.
What happens in this country is that there are those people that I might refer to as being naughty who when they hear that civil servants have been given salary increase, inflate their prices then there are those who take money to the black market and cause the black market rate to rise with the intention to erode the Zimbabwean currency. As a Government, we know that the world-over, people use their own currencies. As Government, we are into the multi-currency era because we have observed that the enemies of this country are trying to strangle the people of Zimbabwe by constantly attacking our local currency. That is why the Government took such a decision.
Be that as it may, the Government is seriously seized with the matter and Government has put together an urgent committee made up of the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, the Minister of Industry and Commerce and the Minister of Information Publicity and Broadcasting Services that they come up, investigate and research. This research should be primary research. They should talk to the primary retailers; in fact, I would say all retailers so that we find the reasons why the local manufacturers of these goods are raising their prices.
We have observed that the prices are going up both in United States dollar terms and in Zimbabwean dollar terms. It has also been observed that a lot of these people are turning down the Zimbabwean dollar which is a legal tender, which means if you have United States dollars or any other currency or the Zimbabwean dollar you should be allowed to buy. They also found out that in large supermarkets, certain food stuffs were no longer available on the shelfs but at corner shops and informal retail shops such goods were readily available.
You may know that two weeks ago, the Government took some measures and you may also be aware that these people are taking advantage of these goods that they are manufacturing in Zimbabwe yet they refuse to accept the Zimbabwean dollar when they have used the Zimbabwean money in manufacturing them. There are also some big shops that are importing goods and are charging exorbitant prices. So, the 14 commodity products such as sugar, mealie meal and cooking oil had duties payable on those items suspended so as to ensure that the lives of the Zimbabwean people become easier. It means that these items are now exempted from duty and a lot of these items have increased in terms of availability so that the people that are increasing the prices will find it difficult to increase the prices. So, these are some of the commodities that were put in that bracket.
The monetary sector, that is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and also the RBZ, are also looking into the issue of this exchange rate so that there is stability. People are taking advantage of that. It is important for us to know that there are some people who misbehave, the naughty ones, who believe that every time when we go to elections, they must strangle the people of Zimbabwe so that they think that their Government is not important as well as their country. As a result of that, the Government has also taken up several measures like looking into the auction floor to see if those that are getting money from those people are using the money that they are getting for the intended purpose so that they go into the shops and find out how people are being taken advantage of and what is the justification of increasing the prices of such goods.
They are not only going to end there; the Ministry of Industry and Commerce teams as we speak, are on the ground in urban areas, in the shops to find out the weight of the commodities that are being sold. The 2kg sugar pack may not weigh 2kgs and mealie meal, if it were to be weighed, you would find that a packet written 10kgs may not actually be 10kgs.
The Government suspended 15% to those that will have sold those commodities in United States dollars. All these measures are being taken to control this price madness so that prices become affordable. The Government will stop at nothing to ensure that the lives of the Zimbabwean people becomes comfortable by taking all the necessary measures. The Government is constantly saying that we have sufficient maize but there are certain shops that were limiting the quantities that customers would buy, for example a single packet per customer. The Government is looking into such issues. It is also looking into the issue of the Silo Foods through the Grain Marketing Board so that mealie meal is sold at a lower price.
There are a lot of things that are being done, but I urge this august House that whenever you hear Government giving you feedback in the Cabinet, you should also listen to these Cabinet briefs so that you are in a position to explain all these important measures that the Government is making as regards taming the exchange rate and the price increase. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN. MOHADI) in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I move that the time for questions without notice be extended by twenty minutes.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
Motion put and agreed.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you very much Madam President. My question is directed to the Minister of Information, Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa. Between 2009 and 2013, Zimbabwe was involved in drafting the Constitution and I am happy to note that you were part of that process. What is important about this drafting of the Constitution was that it was inclusive with our people being asked what they wanted in their Constitution. Further, what is important is that the process was documented. In other words, the Ministry of Information and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs allowed the recording of the documentary of this very important process.
The documentary has been produced and it is called The Democrats. You may know that this documentary has won 19 international awards but the documentary was banned in Zimbabwe and it was banned under the First Republic. My question is whether you are aware that the ban of this very important documentary still stands and if so, what are your plans as Government about that? Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BORADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you very much Madam President and I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mwonzora for a very important question. Hon. Sen. Mwonzora and I worked together when I was co-chairing COPAC. It was an extremely important activity which happened in the history of our country and this was a people driven Constitution where we went out to all districts of this country. It was people driven and people were allowed to say exactly what they wanted. It was inclusive and this is why we are very proud of our Constitution.
I remember when we started that process as 25 Members of Parliament, the room was cold but by the time we went into the second month, the room was warm and we worked as Zimbabweans together, which is what we should always continue to do. I do appreciate and I know about the documentary he is talking about, The Democrats. What I would like to ask him as a lawyer and I think this is something which he knows exactly how to go about it, this is something which is very specific and if it is put in writing to the Minister of Justice, maybe he will be surprised and he will give some kind of answer which will satisfy you adequately. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Madam President, I believe Hon. Sen. Komichi asked the question that I wanted to pose. Thank you.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Madam President. My question was supposed to be directed to the Minister of Transport, but because he is not in, may you allow me to redirect that question to the Leader of Business in the House? Madam, National Railways of Zimbabwe, a parastatal that operates about 3000 kilometers of rail providing passenger and freight services is in dire need of recapitalisation. The wagons, the locomotives, the tracks and the signaling systems are all antiquated and in need of replacement.
There is lack of maintenance, lack of spare parts and overdue replacement of old equipment leading to a situation where only part of the rail-road is in good condition. There is reduced service and goods transport has been declining from about four million tons in 2015 to about three million tons currently. May the Minister explain to this House what the Government is doing to bring back NRZ to its maximum operational condition so that it restores all the services that it used to offer? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Madam President. I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Kambizi for such a lucid explanation of the challenges which NRZ is facing. As policy of Government, if we are going to develop as a country, it cannot over-emphasise the importance of rail transport. We cannot be transporting bulk packages through buses, I think that would kill our roads. There is a lot of work which is done by the Ministry of Transport to make sure that our road infrastructure is developed, improved and re-gravelled, but we are aware of the fact that most of the bulk packages, or rather looking at heavy things, are being transported by roads and this is damaging our roads. If you look at Victoria Falls Road, Bulawayo to Beitbridge Road, this is why the Ministry is working very fast to make sure that road is repaired otherwise it had really become a danger to our people because there are a lot of heavy traffic on that road and this is due to the transformation which is happening in the country.
All what I would like to respond to Hon. Sen. Kambizi is to say National Railways of Zimbabwe is very critical to this Government and a lot of work is being done to make sure that all these issues which you have raised about the wagons, locomotives are replaced. Some of them are antiquated, lack of maintenance and spare parts. These are issues which are right in front of the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development, they are working on it and I suggest to Hon. Sen. Kambizi to put that question in writing so that the Hon. Minister of Transport can actually give a detailed list of what is actually being done to make sure that we do not carry bulk things on our roads. With our boarders having been renovated, we know what Beitbridge is like and we know that soon Forbes Boarder Post will also be developed to ensure smooth movement of vehicles. We really need to maintain our roads and with the mining activities going on in our country and for us to achieve that 12 billion industry by 2025, it is critical that most of these products should actually be transported by National Railways of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. MOHADI): I would like to advise Hon. Sen. Kambizi that this is a specific question which needs to be written down for research and a comprehensive response will be given.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Thank you Madam President, my question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Local Government. In the absence of the Hon. Minister, I will refer the question to the Leader of Government Business before she leaves. My question is if you visit all cities including Harare, Bulawayo, Gweru and Kwekwe, they are some people who are busy washing cars all over even here at Parliament, we say we want our country to be clean but these people are littering everywhere. The workers from the City Council would have cleaned in the morning and these people will litter everywhere with dirty water, mutton clothes and buckets used for cleaning the cars. What is Government policy with regards to such actions?
*THE MINISTER ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Madam President. It is true what the Hon. Member has highlighted, that is taking place in the towns, the washing of cars on undesignated places. If we take note of what His Excellency the President said that 1st Friday of each month be National Clean Up day, people must not be littering the streets. It is common sense that people are breaking the law and the city fathers have the power to enforce by-laws. They must enforce such by-laws, we are even surprised why they are not bringing such culprits to book because they have the mandate to do that. It is the duty of the councils; the leadership of those councils should ensure that the by-laws are enforced. If these are not in place, they must put them in place. We do not expect people to litter everywhere. We must follow what His Excellency the President said about maintaining our country clean, not only once a month but on a daily basis. City fathers must enforce by-laws to make sure that our country is always clean. I thank you.
(v)HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: [Part of question not recorded due to technical fault] My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, [technical fault] Gwanda narrow bridge links Blanket Mine, Bvumbachigwe, Matopo, what plans do you have for that road Hon. Minister?
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I am sorry the Hon. Minister of Transport is not with us today. I do not know whether you mind that we refer that question to the Leader of Government Business.
(v)HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: Thank you Madam President.
THE HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA): Thank you Madam President. You were right to ask the Hon. Member that in the absence of the Hon. Minister of Transport, can I proceed to answer. This question is more specific than being a policy question. I would want to ask the Hon. Member to put this question in writing and direct it to the Hon. Minister of Transport so that she will be accorded a more comprehensive and correct response to the question that she has just asked. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE (HON. SEN. MOHADI) in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MWONZORA: I move that Order of the Day, Number one be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 52ND PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion that this House takes note of the Report of Delegation to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC-Parliamentary Forum.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Third Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion on Sustainable Healthcare System in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MABIKA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Sustainable Management of Waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Measures to Combat Human Trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and related meetings held in Kigali Rwanda from 11th to 15th October, 2022.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 by election.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SODA), the Senate adjourned at Three Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 23rd May, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Good afternoon Hon. Senators. I wish to remind Hon. Senators to put their cellphones on silent or better switch them off.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Mr. President. I move that Order of the Day, Number 1 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 52ND PLENARY ASSEMBLY SESSION OF THE SADC PARLIAMENTARY FORUM HELD IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move the motion in my name that this House takes note of the Report of the Delegation to the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC-Parliamentary Forum held in the Democratic Republic of Congo from 3 to 11 December, 2022.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I second.
HON. SEN. MOHADI:
- INTRODUCTION
The 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliamentary Forum was hosted by the National Assembly of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) from the 3rd to 11th December 2022 under the theme: ‘The Role of Parliaments in Strengthening Legislative Frameworks for Peace and Security in the SADC Region’.
1.2 The Zimbabwe delegation comprised the following Members of Parliament:
- Dought Ndiweni, Executive Committee Member, Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Democratization, Governance and Human Rights and Head of Delegation;
- Goodlucky Kwaramba, Member of the Standing Committee on Gender Equality, Women Advancement and Youth Development and Chairperson of the Zimbabwe Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (ZWPC);
- Anele Ndebele, Member of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment; and,
Hon. Paurina Mpariwa, Member of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes.
- OFFICIAL OPENING CEREMONY
2.1 In her welcome remarks, the Secretary General of the SADC PF, Ms. Boemo Segkoma, lauded the Plenary Assembly as a gathering for representative democracy through universal suffrage aimed at providing efficient checks and balances by sovereign Parliaments over the Executive within the clear context of the doctrine of separation of powers.
2.1.1 Furthermore, Ms. Sekgoma implored Member States to continue advocating for the protection of human rights, including the implementation of measures that mitigate against Gender Based Violence (GBV). In this regard, the SADC PF will continue to champion the need for the Regional Parliaments to domesticate the Model Law on Gender-based Violence, among other Model Laws.
2.1.2 The Secretary General concluded by tendering credentials of the delegates to the Plenary Assembly and invited the Hon. President of SADC PF to address the Assembly.
2.2 Hon. Christophe Mboso N’kodia Pwanga, the Speaker of the Parliament of DRC and President of the SADC Parliamentary Forum expressed gratitude to H.E Félix Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo, President of the Republic of DRC for taking time to grace the official opening programme of the SADC PF Plenary Assembly Meetings.
2.3 The Speaker of the National Assembly of the DRC reiterated the need of the international community to condemn in strongest terms the unwarranted aggression being perpetrated on Eastern border of the DRC by the M23 rebels. He further underscored the need for a peaceful environment as a prerequisite for rapid economic growth and development.
2.4 Hon. Christophe Mboso Pwanga concluded by paying tribute to those who had died due to complications occasioned by the COVID 19 pandemic.
2.5 Hon. Regina Esparon, Chairperson of the Regional Women’s Parliamentary Caucus (RWPC) urged the Region to move the women’s empowerment conversation beyond increasing female representation to the attainment of meaningful participation of women in all peace and security processes at all levels. This involves representation in peace missions, at international peace negotiations, in national governance structures and in local-level peace initiatives.
2.6 She stressed that one of the key strategies in achieving this was to promote women in leadership positions in order to influence the decision-making trajectory in all sectors of governance matrix.
2.7 In delivering the keynote address, the Guest of Honour, H.E Félix Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo, President of the Democratic Republic of Congo noted that the meeting came at the backdrop of an unwarranted aggression towards a Member of SADC, namely the DRC by the M23 rebels in the Eastern part of the DRC.
2.7.1 H.E. Tshisekedi, President of the Republic of DRC added that the chosen theme of the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session was timely, being held at a critical moment when the region continued to face continued insecurity, particularly in the eastern part of DRC. In this region, armed groups are engaged in massacres and other atrocious acts amounting to war crimes being perpetrated against innocent civilians.
2.7.2 He thus implored the international community to condemn this unfair aggressive interference on the sovereignty of the DRC by the armed rebels which have the unfair and unfortunate consequences of retarding socio –economic development of the region.
2.7.3 H.E. President Tschisekedi lauded the support being received from SADC Member countries in defending the cause and territorial integrity of the DRC.
2.7.4 Finally, President Tshisekedi pledged his support and assistance for the Transformation of SADC-PF into a Regional Parliament. President Tshisekedi concluded his address by wishing the 52nd SADC PF Assembly constructive deliberations.
- ZIMBABWE’S CONTRIBUTION TO THE THEME AND THE KEY DELIVERABLES DURING THE SYMPOSIUM
3.1 Hon. Anele Ndebele presented a paper on the theme on behalf of the Hon. Speaker and the Zimbabwe delegation. He noted that peace and security are prerequisites for socio-economic development of any nation or region.
3.2 Zimbabwe acknowledges that peace and security are necessary pre-conditions for socio-economic development of any country in the region. Equally, the 1992 SADC Declaration and Treaty highlights that “war and insecurity are the enemy of economic progress and social welfare”. In the same vein, Aspiration 4 of the African Union (AU) Agenda 2063 calls for “a peaceful and secure Africa”. Accordingly, peace and security are a sine qua non for the total fulfilment of all the Seven Aspirations of Agenda 2063, which anchor Africa’s desire of achieving its vision 2063.
3.3 SADC should be extolled for putting in place institutions, policies and strategic plans which aim at creating the necessary precondition for peace and security in their respective countries. Some of the institutions tasked with the responsibility of maintaining peace and security in the region include the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation and the Southern African Regional Police Chiefs Co-operation Organization as well as the SADC Regional Peace Keeping Training Centre.
3.4 All security efforts should be made to enable SADC countries to fight terrorist and banditry within the SADC region. It is common cause that the region must put in place security mechanisms that will enable SADC to effectively deal with the M23 terrorist group marauding in the Eastern part of the DRC. It is trite to observe that the disturbances have compromised peace and security, resulting in economic meltdown of the SADC region.
3.5 In the same vein, Zimbabwe observed that concerted measures must be put in place to fight banditry in the Cabo Delgado Region in Northern Mozambique where the mining of gas in that region was being disturbed by terrorist groups.
3.6 It was imperative to point out that SADC security efforts as supported by the Legislative Frameworks in the SADC Parliament must focus their search for peace and security beyond the borders of SADC. This is so because, there is need for SADC to assist fellow African Union countries which are experiencing terrorist attacks by the Al-Shabab in the Horn of Africa and the Boko Haram in Nigeria.
3.7 The approach is instructive to the extent that, if Africa is to faithfully and successfully implement Agenda 2063 and the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA), Africa must act in unison in fighting the terrorism scourge if it is to achieve accelerated socio-economic development.
4.0 STATEMENT BY HON. ADVOCATE JACOB FRANCIS NZWIDAMILIMO MUDENDA ON DECISIONS OF THE 145th ASSEMBLY OF THE IPU AND RELATED MEETINGS HELD IN KIGALI, RWANDA FROM 11 TO 15 OCTOBER 2022
4.1 Hon. Prof. Peter Katjavivi, Speaker of the National Assembly of Namibia, on behalf of Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe, presented a statement on decisions by the 145th Assembly of the IPU and related Meetings held from 11th to 15th October 2022, in Kigali, Rwanda, pursuant to Rule 45 of the Rules of Procedure.
4.2 It was reported that the IPU 145th Assembly and Related Meetings was officially opened by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Rwanda, Paul Kagame, on 11th October 2022. In his welcome address, His Excellency Kagame applauded the Assembly’s theme which espoused the need for gender equality in all socio-economic sectors, more so when the women folk form 52% of the world’s population. It was, therefore, incumbent upon Parliaments to enact laws that effectively promote gender parity. H.E. President Kagame, however cautioned that there was “no size fits all” in tackling gender equality deficiencies. To him what was critical is the application of the political will to achieve the goal.
4.3 In their interventions on the theme of the Assembly entitled “Gender Equality and Gender Sensitive Parliaments as Drivers of Change for a more Resilient and Peaceful World”, Parliamentarians took stock of the positive steps towards achieving gender equality. Speakers unanimously concurred that it had become an imperative to include women leadership in addressing global challenges such as conflicts, pandemics and climate change. Through their legislative and oversight roles, Parliaments can play a critical role in enacting robust legislation, including quotas for women in politics and ensuring gender responsive budgeting.
4.4 Mr. Martin Chungong, Secretary General of the IPU, called for the acceleration of progress to achieve shared goals on gender equality and gender sensitive Parliaments with zero tolerance to gender violence and sexism. In addressing instability as experienced in some parts of Africa and the Russia/Ukraine conflict, among others, the Secretary General underscored the value of dialogue as articulated by the founding fathers of the IPU. He called upon Parliaments to strive for peace, equity and opportunities for all in fulfilment of their constitutional mandates of legislation, representation and oversight on the Executive.
4.4 The Plenary Assembly adopted the Kigali Declaration on “Gender Equality and Gender Sensitive Parliaments as drivers of change for a more resilient and peaceful world”. The Declaration represents a milestone in progress towards gender equality and gender-sensitive parliaments. It encourages IPU Members to step up their efforts to promote gender equality in both the public and private sectors.
4.5 Member States were reminded that, in line with the IPU Statues and Rules as well as the IPU Strategy which places emphasis on implementation of resolutions of the IPU, Parliaments will be called upon to report on action taken towards implementation of the adopted IPU resolutions. Accordingly, SADC Parliaments have been encouraged to implement resolutions and provide timely feedback to the IPU Secretary General.
5.0 ADOPTION OF THE REPORT OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE AND THE TREASURER’S REPORT
5.1 The Executive Committee (EXCO) tabled its report for consideration and adoption by the 52nd Plenary Assembly meeting. The EXCO of the SADC Parliamentary Forum (SADC PF) had met virtually via the zoom video conferencing platform on 18th and 19th November 2022.
5.2 The report sought to place it on record its sincere thanks to the Parliament of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, led by Hon Speaker Christophe MBOSO N’kodia Pwanga for graciously accepting to host the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session, at a short notice.
5.3 The Host Speaker, Hon Christophe Mboso N’kodia Pwanga, was further requested to convey the Plenary Assembly’s gratitude to His Excellency, Félix Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo, President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), for officially opening the 52nd Plenary Assembly session and to the Government and people of DRC for the warm hospitality enjoyed by all delegates.
5.4 The Plenary Assembly adopted the report on the National elections which took place in the Republic of Angola on the 24th August 2022. On this occasion, a SADC PF Election Observation Mission (EOM) to Angola was deployed under the able leadership of Hon. Speaker Adv. Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda from 17th to 27th August 2022.
5.4 The report also noted that that Parliamentary elections also took place in the Kingdom of Lesotho in October 2022, and regrettably, the SADC PF EOM which was scheduled by the Forum to participate from the 13th September to 10th October 2022, could not take place due to lack of the requisite number of countries willing to take up the mission.
5.5 Given the foregoing, EXCO invited Plenary Assembly to note that the sporadic and inconsistent participation in EOMs by the Forum may lead to an unwarranted differential treatment of countries since there are Member Parliaments which have diligently fielded delegates and contributed to nearly all EOMs. Such countries will be disadvantaged when the Forum fails to deploy an EOM in their home country when elections are to take place. EXCO, therefore, invited the Plenary to encourage that all Member Parliaments participate actively in future EOMs in line with the 36th Plenary Assembly Resolution.
5.6 On the maintenance of peace and security, Plenary Assembly noted that the SADC Summit of Heads of State and Governments endorsed the Assessment Report on the risks, threats, implications and opportunities of the ongoing conflict in Europe for the SADC region. The report urged Member States to monitor the movement of mercenaries from conflict zones and introduce legal instruments that would enable them to take measures to counter mercenary activities in line with AU Convention for the Elimination of Mercenaries in Africa of 1997, among other issues.
5.7 On the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament, EXCO informed Plenary Assembly that while a few SADC Member States have already signed the Agreement, the requisite number of 12 signatures out of 16 is yet to be attained for Amendment to take legal effect in accordance with Article 36(1) of the Treaty.
5.7.1 Given that the Agreement Amending the SADC Treaty has not yet been signed by the majority of Member States, EXCO recommended to the Plenary Assembly that this should remain the cardinal priority of lobby initiatives by the Forum and its Member Parliaments in order to ensure that Member States who have not yet signed the Amendment do so as soon as possible so that the figure of 12 out of 16 signatures is promptly attained.
5.7.2 EXCO, therefore, recommended to the Plenary Assembly that lobby efforts be heightened through the engagement of Heads of State and Government of SADC Member States who had not yet signed the Agreement Amending the Treaty to forthwith append their signatures.
5.7.3 Zimbabwe firmly remains focused on the need for the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament, and is satisfied with the developments at Summitry level towards this just cause. The 42nd SADC Summit of Heads of State and Government held in Kinshasa, DRC, on 17 August 2022 approved the Agreement Amending the SADC Treaty on the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament during the 42nd SADC Summit. Accordingly, Hon. Ambassador F.M.M Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, signed the Agreement as delegated by His Excellency Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa at the Summit.
5.8 It was noted that part-time staff secondment arrangement had proved to be unfruitful due to competing priorities of staff at national level, the absence of an adequate accountability framework, and the lack of prioritisation of SADC-PF duties which lead to considerable pressure on the SADC-PF management to perform committee related tasks. Consequently, it was not possible to renew the secondment contracts as per policy.
5.8.1 EXCO, therefore, recommended that the Plenary Assembly refers this matter to the Committee of Clerks to guide and align the secondment policy to existing functions of Programme managers and Committee Secretaries.
5.9 EXCO reported to the Plenary Assembly that due to the good ongoing work of the Forum under the SRHR Project, Sweden is in the process of approving a project proposal made by the Forum for the next phase which is to run from 2023-2026, a development which augurs well to assist the Forum in consolidating the democratic drive in the SADC region in the years to come.
5.10 EXCO invited the Plenary Assembly to note that the Forum adopted the SADC Model Law on Gender-Based Violence at its 50th Plenary Assembly Session hosted by the Kingdom of Lesotho in December 2021 and that the SADC Model Law on GBV was the first ever model law of its nature to deal with gender-related violence in all its forms, including physical, verbal, economic, psychological and even cyber violence, and thus paving the way to end GBV in Southern Africa by 2030.
5.11 EXCO noted that, since there was only one candidate on the ballot, Hon. Roger Mancienne, Speaker of the Parliament of Seychelles, the Presiding Officer was, therefore, de facto designated and inaugurated as the President of the SADC PF.
6.0 MOTIONS ADOPTED DURING THE 52nd PLENARY ASSEMBLY MEETINGS
6.1 Motion on the Adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Trade, Industry, Finance and Investment
6.1.1 Plenary Assembly adopted the submission that cross border traders, the majority of them whom are women, continued to face numerous challenges which included sexual harassment, lack of adequate information on customs procedures and information on new developments, including the Africa Continental Free Trade Agreement, and many other non-tariff barriers. This is despite the existence of policy frameworks at regional level.
6.1.2 Plenary Assembly adopted the need to encourage Member States to intensify the flow and exchange of information among traders in order to eliminate unnecessary delays at border posts.
6.2 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources
6.2.1 The Committee noted that Africa, and the SADC region in particular, was endowed with arable land and water. The Committee acknowledged that the quality and quantity of water was a precursor to a thriving agriculture sector.
6.2.2 It is, therefore, imperative for the SADC Region to adopt sustainable agricultural practices that should be prioritised among other measures that are meant to boost agriculture in the region.
6.3 Motion for the Adoption of the Report of the Standing Committee on Human and Social Development and Special Programmes
6.3.1 Plenary Assembly noted the lack of funding to public health care in the SADC Region. Over reliance on donor support towards health services coupled with low capital health expenditure contributes to low and unsustainable health financing in the SADC region.
6.3.2 Plenary Assembly adopted the need to facilitate revision and effective execution of resource allocation frameworks including public finance management systems across the healthcare and education delivery systems. At least 20% of national budgets should be channelled to education in order to keep more girls in school.
6.4 Report of the Standing Committee on Democratisation, Governance and Human Rights
6.4.1 Plenary Assembly adopted a motion, which noted with deep concern that the voices of the youth and children are not particularly taken into consideration, worsened by inefficient implementation of related policies, legislation, laws and structures.
6.4.2 In this regard, Plenary Assembly implored SADC Member States to adopt legislated Youth Quotas in institutions of governance including Parliament in order to increase youth political participation and representation in governance processes.
7.0 RESOLUTIONS AND WAY FORWARD
7.1 There is need for Member Parliaments to take stock of the legislative frameworks that promote peace and security, both at inter-state and intra-state level. In this regard, the Legislative sector needs to deliberate on the role and contributions of parliamentary engagement to the peace and security discourse in the SADC region bearing in mind the complementary efforts already made by the relevant SADC organs.
7.2 There is need for Parliaments to continuously carry out in-depth research in order to build capacity in understanding the dynamics that lead to disturbances and conflict in the region. This can be done through Member States working closely with non-state actors which are responsible for capacity building initiatives within the region. Governments should stretch their tentacles to every avenue that can be used to achieve durable peace as a necessary precondition for sustainable development.
7.3 The Plenary Assembly resolved to make Parliaments centres of peace initiatives by crafting and advocating for policies that favour the inclusion of women in peace processes (peacemaking/ peacekeeping and peacebuilding) initiatives. Parliamentarians should take peculiar initiatives that promote peace in Member states.
7.4 Plenary Assembly resolved to formulate and sustain policies that improve all tenets of good governance and the promotion of the rule of law. Plenary observed that the underlying causes of conflict and insecurity emanate from non-adherence to Constitutionalism, infraction of fundamental rights and freedoms, irregular holding of elections, corruption and the marginalisation of ethnic groups.
7.5 There is need for the Region to come up with proactive policies that promote the involvement of the Youth in all programmes and actions aimed at sustainable socio-economic development of the region.
- Taking note that Zimbabwe remains solid, resolute in its commitment towards establishment of the SADC Regional Parliament. Also recalling that Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of Parliament has worked tirelessly on the matter as the Chairperson of the Strategic Lobby Team on the Transformation of the SADC PF into a Regional Parliament, Plenary Assembly pledged to redouble its efforts in engaging the outstanding countries to sign for the amendment of the Treaty laying the foundation in transforming the Forum into a Regional Parliament.
7.7 The 52nd Plenary Assembly Session unanimously endorsed the Angolan Elections as a true reflection of the will of the people of Angola. In the same vein, the Plenary Assembly resolved to ensure that going forward, Election Observation Missions to Member States become a budgeted for, mandatory activity to ensure that the Region tells its own story on elections. EXCO noted that the low participation in EOMs by Member Parliaments runs counter to the spirit and the letter of the 36th Plenary Assembly Resolution that the logistics for EOMs are to be funded by participating countries which fielded their members accordingly.
7.8 Following the adoption of the SADC Model Law on Gender-Based Violence during the 50th Plenary Assembly Session hosted by the Kingdom of Lesotho in December 2021, the decision-making body has proposed the post adoption strategies of the Model Law, in close collaboration with regional partners, including Civil Society Organisations. The Plenary Assembly pronounced itself strongly on the need to domesticate the Model Laws adopted by Plenary Assembly this far, in collaboration with all relevant stakeholders.
7.9 The Plenary Assembly stressed the need for Parliaments across the region to continue raising concern on the negative effects of destabilizing forces such as the conflict in the Eastern DRC as well as the banditry in Northern Mozambique.
7.10 The full dossier of the Plenary Assembly resolutions will be availed by the SADC Parliamentary Forum in due course for consideration by Portfolio and Thematic Committees of the Parliament of Zimbabwe.
8.0 CONCLUSION
8.1 The Plenary Assembly concluded by calling on Member Parliaments to continue intensifying collaborative efforts that ensure that peace and security finds home in the SADC Region and beyond.
8.2 Parliament of Zimbabwe continues to play a highly effective leading role in the Transformation Agenda of the SADC PF. The return of Hon. Advocate Jacob Francis Nzwidamilimo Mudenda, Speaker of Parliament as a substantive Member of the Executive Committee and Member of the Legal Sub- Committee will enhance his role as the Chairperson of the Strategic Lobby Team of Hon. Speakers on the Transformation of the Forum into a SADC Regional Parliament.
8.3 Parliament of Zimbabwe commits itself to the full implementation of the resolutions of the Plenary Assembly which shall be shared among all Members of Parliament to facilitate action by different Portfolio and Thematic Committees.
8.4 The 53rd Plenary Assembly of the SADC PF will be hosted by the Republic of Tanzania, who have pledged to choreograph a memorable hosting arrangement in Arusha.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I would like to congratulate our delegation that went to this very important meeting and the resolutions that came from that meeting. We as Zimbabwe, must condemn in the loudest terms, the loud aggression against fellow African states. In this regard, we must condemn the aggression in the Democratic Republic of Congo because what it is doing is to compromise the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Democratic Republic of Congo and therefore, it deserves us as Zimbabwe, to join other nations to condemn in the strongest of terms.
Mr. President Sir, while we are still there, you will notice that if you look at ZIDERA, the law that imposes sanctions on Zimbabwe, it actually gives the reason for sanctions as Zimbabwe’s involvement in the DRC conflict but Zimbabwe has not moved out of the DRC conflict. Therefore, the sanctions ought also to be removed. Mr. President, the aggression that is taking place in Mozambique may have a foreign hand in it because, if we look at the rebels who are in the Cabo Delgado, they are well armed and those people who are arming them must be exposed for the world to see.
The effect of the conflict in Mozambique is also affecting the stability of the region, and is also affecting the economic opportunities that would come with the discovery of natural gas. Zimbabwe ought to be worried about this development because there is a possibility that there could be natural gas within Zimbabwe. Therefore, those people who have imposed armed conflict on Mozambique can do in any nation that has these natural resources. Therefore, we need to condemn in the strongest terms.
I would like to thank the resolution that deals specifically with gender-based violence but we need to go beyond the condemnation of gender-based violence to having legislated concrete steps that increase the participation of women in important decision-making matrix. I am happy to say as President of my own political party, the MDC is the only political party in this country whose Presidium is 40% women. Its National Executive has about 38% women. We need this legislated so that political parties are forced by law to increase the number of women who participate in decision making. As we go to elections, maybe at the later part of this year, there ought to be a law that forces political parties to field women candidates. Even if it means declaring certain constituencies to be women constituencies, so be it - but we need to be serious with the involvement of women.
The report has talked a lot about what is happening outside the borders of Zimbabwe but we need to come down and examine ourselves. As I was listening to Hon. Sen. Mohadi giving the report, I could not help think about a situation in Zimbabwe. If you examine the situation in Zimbabwe closely, you will find that Zimbabwe is a nation that has not known peace since colonialism. The first type of conflict was of course the armed conflict that took place, giving rise to the First Chimurenga; the Chindunduma war, which was about dispossession of land. After that, we had had a racial conflict that then blossomed into a full-scale war, the war of liberation that took place.
After the war of liberation, when we thought that we have seen enough of blood shedding in Zimbabwe, then there came Gukurahundi where people of a certain ethnic group were targeted either by harassment, beatings, killings or sometimes if you go to Matabeleland and lower Midlands, you will discover that there seems to be some areas that were targeted for underdevelopment as a political weapon. We also noticed after Gukurahundi, we then had conflicts, one way or the other, among the political parties and this conflict actually climaxed in the shooting of Patrick Kombayi, a candidate of the Zimbabwe Union Movement Gweru, sometime in 1989/90, somewhere there.
Then after the formation of the MDC, we saw a lot of conflicts. People were targeted for specific harassment on the basis of their political thought. In 2007, our President then, Morgan Tsvangirai was beaten by the police in a police station at Machipisa. This attracted a lot of condemnation by the international community, but the worst was yet to come. In 2008 after the first-round win by Morgan Tsvangirai and the MDC, we saw untold violence against our people. Zimbabweans killing other Zimbabweans. Not only that, Zimbabwean Black people killing other Black people. If you look at it closely, Zimbabwean poor people being used to harass other poor people. So the people who were then used to commit these atrocities were actually being exploited by those with resources. We need to put an end to this thing.
The conflict in Zimbabwe, right now there is conflict in Zimbabwe. This is law of key conflict or a soft war that is taking place in Zimbabwe among the political parties, over the fairness and the freeness of our electoral processes. We need to make sure that we adhere to our Constitution. A few days ago, my political party took the delimitation report to court in the Constitutional Court. For the first time, we were told by a Constitutional Court that they could not hear us. The Judges went on techinicalities and so on and they could not hear the case. They delayed the case and now the case is in the High Court…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, you will not debate a judgement of the court. We are talking about the report of the 52nd SADC Parliamentary Forum. You are now going into detail about the court decision. Please stick to the report.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Yes, I have finished going into that detail Mr. President and I am correct. Serve to advise this Hon. House that the same dispute is within the High Court. I want to make a plea. I want to make a plea to those people with power. People like myself, like my party must be encouraged to seek recourse in a lawful manner. The only way we can do that is to take things that we are not happy about to the courts but we want to plead to people with power not to intimidate judges. Here judges were clearly intimidated. Also. they should not interfere with a judicial process because this is what brings conflict to our country.
Going to court is a safety valve by peace loving people. I am sad to say that there is clear evidence of trying to manipulate the courts of law. Mr. President, there are a lot of things that Zimbabwe must do in order to bring everlasting peace in our country. The first important thing is that there must be compensation; adequate compensation of victims of political violence. Here, I am talking of victims of Gukurahundi. Compensation of Gukurahundi must not be a mere political statement that leaders make. We must see people being compensated. We must see the communities being compensated. That is very important. So, Gukurahundi compensation must be done. Where there are victims of political violence after Gukurahundi – I talked about the Zimbabwe Unity Movement who were murdered and after the formation of MDC, we saw the escalation of that conflict. There must be compensation for the victims of that violence. It is not enough to speak against it as a political bygone like what our former President said that it was a moment of madness. We must now see that there is now sanity. That the madness has gone and there is now sanity, people are being compensated.
Many people in Matabeleland do not have documents because either their parents were killed or displaced one way or the other. So we need compensation for those victims. The victims of that one where the properties were destroyed in the towns, Murambatsvina. Those people must be compensated. There is a United Nations report that this was improper and led to homelessness. It led to people being displaced back to the rural areas because they had nowhere to stay. We have historical evidence that many people who were targeted for Murambatsvina were people of particular political persuasion, so that was political persecution. There must be compensation of those people.
The victims of the 2008 killings, almost more than 300 of MDC youngsters were murdered in cold blood. These families are there. They have been fully documented and there needs to be compensation to those people.
Mr. President, after the elections in 2018, the Motlanthe Commission came here and made specific findings and recommendations to Government and one of these recommendations was to send the children of the victims to school. As far as we know, nothing has been done to pay compensation to the victims. We are talking of six people here and the Government is failing to honor its obligations as given by a Commission that it set itself. What was the point of bringing the Motlanthe Commission if the Government was not prepared to listen to the recommendations of that Commission?
So, we need all those to be done. We need truly free and fair elections Mr. President, and all obstacles to free and fair elections must be removed. I am expecting that the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation is going to allow free political debate during our election run up. Everyone must have equal opportunity to say their ideas and to sell their plans to the people of Zimbabwe so that the people of Zimbabwe make a free choice. That has to start now. Mr. President, we need truth telling in this country. Truth telling is therapeutic. There are people I have talked to in Matabeleland, some of them close relatives who just want to know the truth, who just want to know what happened to their loved ones. It does not pain us to say the truth. In fact, we have precedence. South Africa did it. They had the Truth and Reconciliation Commission where people told the truth. In Rwanda, Rwanda is a success story after conflict. You have seen people who victimised their victims sitting in the same house with their victims, attending same committees. They have apologized to one another and there is evidence that Rwanda is developing. It is developing because there is peace. It is developing because there is minimum resentment.
If conflict is not dealt with Mr. President, it will cause a lot of resentment within the country and we do not want that. We need to domesticate the international instruments that deal with peace and security and we need to unban certain things that we have banned in this country. Mr. President, there are two documentaries that were banned in this country. The first documentary is called The Demographs. This is a documentary about Zimbabwe’s Constitution making process and it features two main protagonists, that is Hon. Mangwana of ZANU PF and myself who were the co-chairs and Hon. Nkosi. It documents how the Constitution making process actually took place and the negotiations that took place in this very important exercise.
That documentary was banned in Zimbabwe. It cannot play on ZBC. So, Zimbabweans cannot know how their Constitution came about. They cannot know the important work that was done by men and women who were in the COPAC because certain truths are told in that documentary and so on. Mr. President, it is my plea that we now have a second republic. The second republic is different from the first republic. Let us accept that for a moment. Why is it maintaining the bans on documentaries such as the documentary on the Constitution making process?
There is a documentary also which was banned and this documentary documents the election campaign of 2018 and features…
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order! Hon. Sen. Mwonzora, I have allowed you to divert and debate a little bit about this country. The report presented by Hon. Sen. Mohadi is about the 52nd Plenary Assembly Session of the SADC Parliament Forum held in the DRC. You have now made your main topic the elections which are coming in this country, the situation and what you see as the situation, the problems and challenges. I think it is a very diverse issue which you are now touching on. You can move a motion to tackle what you are talking about. You have now gone deep into elections and what you perceive as the situation in your own right. I would like to advise you to stick to what Sen. Mohadi has presented to you. You can move a motion about what you are talking about. I am not stopping you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Mr. President Sir. Mr. President, I think you are correct but let me end by quoting the Austrian Governor. His name was Matternich, he said, ‘I have managed to rule Europe and failed to govern Austria’. So, the situation in Zimbabwe is such that we must avoid conflict. Why I was going to 2018 was to say that maybe when people see themselves on camera again, maybe when people see themselves on television doing these horrible things to one another, it may be a deterrence. That was the point I was making. I was not stretching that too far.
This documentary I was talking about features Nelson Chamisa who was the Presidential candidate for MDC-Alliance and President Mnangagwa and their message to the people of Zimbabwe and the things that are happening. This documentary is banned in Zimbabwe. Why are these things being banned in this country? Mr. President, we need to follow our Constitution. It gives us our international obligations. How do we intervene, how do we deal with nations who are in conflict, what type of assistance do we give? We must remain true to ourselves. The situation in Mozambique has to be brought under control so that, the mineral is exploited for the benefit of the entire SADC region. The tickle down benefits are very clear.
Mr. President, let me thank Hon. Sen. Mohadi and her group once again for the job well done and just to say to my Senators, when you get there, do not just think about Rwanda, do not just think about the DRC. Charity begins at home. Let us think about ourselves. Let us look at ourselves squarely in the eye and see whether we are doing the correct thing. Thank you, Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Sen. Mwonzora. Let me also remind you that tomorrow and indeed every Thursday is question time in the Senate. Some of the issues you are raising, it is very unfortunate the people who can respond to them are not here. So, you may ask your question - why is this banned and so on and they will tell their side of the story. It is unfair to raise issues when no-one is here to answer. I am sure you understand what I am saying. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MOHADI: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 17th May, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that Order of the Day, No. 3 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 4 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on sustainable health care system in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. I would like to appreciate the motion raised by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. It is very important, especially looking at dealing with people’s health and the health facilities. Health matters a lot because it is key to people’s lives. The Hon. Sen. spoke about raising the budget for health facilities. Indeed, I second that, especially looking at the situation in rural areas where you sometimes do not get an ambulance. A person may need emergency assistance but there will not be any transport to take them to a higher health facility.
There is need for financial support to such institutions, including wheelchairs because sometimes in the rural areas, you find people struggling to lift up a sick person, but availability of wheelchairs or such other facilities will be key. You realise that there will not be much difference from the pleas that are being made by people. It should be taken as a matter of priority to address those issues. Availability of medicines; sometimes you find doors falling off from health facilities and sometimes where women are expected to deliver in maternity wards, nurses make use of their cellphones for lighting because there will not be electricity.
My appeal is that such facilities must be prioritized, especially in the rural areas. I am very much disturbed by the news that in some facilities we do not have enough staff yet there are a lot of graduates who are not employed. The conditions that are supposed to facilitate the employment of such people must be rectified because I am aware that maybe it will be because of the shortage of funds to pay the health employees. There is need for increment to the salaries of nurses and doctors and sometimes you find that at a clinic or health facility, there will be no basic things like gloves.
Madam President, at a clinic where I come from, there is no borehole and so they make use of a borehole that is at a nearby school. When the borehole is down, the nurses have to fetch water from a river. Rural clinics must have boreholes, ambulances, nurses as well as adequate medicines and all other facilities that are needed. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Thank you Madam President. A friend of mine, on a lighter note, said that these days in the Senate there is a lot of baccossi when it comes to time. So I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity. Zimbabwe’s health system is in a sorry state. It is in a state such that the powerful people, the rich and the famous in this country are even afraid to go to our hospitals, that is why they go to hospitals in India, South Africa and so on. I think we need to pass a law that the leaders of this country must be treated in this country.
They have presided over a health system that makes quite a number of medically treated people embarrassed. I can see my friend Hon. Sen. Dr. Sekeramayi, he knows what I am talking about because he understands health. The health system in Zimbabwe is very poor. The infrastructure, the equipment is poor and there is no medicine. At one point in time, I had a relative who had a stomach problem and he needed an operation. I bought everything that he needed while he was admitted at Parirenyatwa. I bought the pain-killers, the bandages, the thread that is used for sewing the wounds, I bought everything. This was also very difficult to get.
At one time, I went to a hospital and asked whether they could help with that item and I had to buy it, I am sorry to say I had to buy it on black market. The issues at the hospitals are dire. On top of that, we have very demotivated workforce. The conditions of service of the health staff leaves a lot to be desired. We are losing nurses and doctors to England. England is right now on an overdrive recruiting our health personnel. So we have trained these people, they now have skill and yet they are going to help another country.
We need to sacrifice and we need to make sure that our health personnel just like all civil servants must have good conditions of service. There are a number of ways of compensating people besides the pain and that is to give them benefits like housing loans. If Parliamentarians and Ministers could get housing loans, other civil servants must get housing loans according to their grades. I represent a social democratic party and we believe that for Zimbabwe to develop, it must use social democracy. It must take the path to social democracy. This is the path that leaves no-one behind and some of the policies include that there must be free healthcare for the poor and the indigent people in our society. We see many people cannot afford to go to the hospitals and there must be free medical services for poor people. There is also need for maternity heath to be looked into. We believe that giving birth is a national duty. We believe that a person giving birth is giving birth to somebody who will help society.
Therefore, maternity healthcare should be free of charge. We should not tax the women for giving birth. In some rural areas, those mothers about to give birth are told by the clinics to come with their own lamps, paraffin, candles, razor blades, methylated spirit, buckets and so on. As a result, Madam President, people are now stopping giving birth. People who would have wanted five children are now having two children. Zimbabwe needs a bigger population. There is enough historical evidence that a nation’s population, a populous nation almost equals to richness of that nation. That is why you see the Chinese have not lifted the ban on their one child policy. They understand the importance of a population. If you have a bigger population, you have bigger aggregate demand, you have bigger demand for goods services and therefore you are able to support industry in this country. It is not true that we must have a smaller population. Those things come from advanced democracies who know that they have an ageing population and that Africa has a younger population but Africa has fewer people and we need to encourage that. Therefore, we need free maternity health care.
Madam President, the health system in this country; is such that those presiding over it must do the honourable thing. They must admit that they have failed. Yes, Zimbabwe did well, every political party including mine, took part in the fight against COVID-19. The Government did very well in the fight against COVID-19 but that is the only thing it did. The health system is poor, the pharmaceutical situation, there is too much corruption at NatPharm and people are not doing anything about it.
About a week ago, there came a Statutory Instrument, which was bringing a lot of opaqueness into procurement of health facilities. We were happy when we read from the Chief Secretary to the President and Cabinet that Statutory Instrument was actually fake. However, how did it come about? It came about because certain criminals wanted to benefit from procurement and they resorted to writing a fake law, if indeed it was a fake law. They then resorted to doing that because there is demand for pharmaceuticals and there is demand for chemicals because the State is not giving people – Madam President, one may argue that Zimbabwe does not have money, that is actually not true, Zimbabwe is very, very rich. Zimbabwe has gold, diamonds, gas in Lupane and Zimbabwe has almost all minerals that you can expect in this world.
Zimbabwe is going to have liquid natural gas in Muzarabani, so, we have everything. The problem with Zimbabwe is not money; the problem with Zimbabwe is that the money is being spend by few people. Few people at the top, they and their families are taking national resources and so on. We have heard so many cases of smuggling of gold. Someone was caught at the Airport with 26kgs of gold and we have now read about this gold mafia and so on. The country has money, the problem is that, that money is monopolised by a few. The problem in Zimbabwe is corruption, we are losing close to 3 billion United States dollars a year as a result of elicit financial flows. This is affecting our health system.
Madam President, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for bringing this very important motion and I want to reiterate that there must be free maternity care in Zimbabwe. There must be free health services in Zimbabwe. One of the things that is troubling Zimbabweans especially the pensioners, by their very nature, are people who are in need of constant healthcare. As aged people, they begin to develop certain diseases that come with ageing. Therefore, they need healthcare more than other demographic groups but look what our pensioners are getting. They are getting peanuts; look at what our war veterans are getting as part of the War Veterans’ Fund, it is next to nothing. Some of them travel from the rural areas to the urban areas and the money gets finished due to transport. I have seen a few pensioners sleeping in the pavements, we must be ashamed and we need to take care of our old people. We need to recalibrate the pension, the pension must be recalculated. There are companies, which took people’s money, and bought buildings like Old Mutual, they bought buildings in this country. So, the money has not been affected by inflation because the buildings are there. There are there for all to see, they are there in Harare, Bulawayo and so on.
Those buildings are bringing rent and that rent is being charged in foreign currency. Why not the pension houses pay the pensioners in foreign currency because that is what they are getting. Madam President, once again, I want to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for bringing this very important topic. I thank you so much.
*HON. SEN. DENGA: Thank you Madam President, I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Tongogara for raising that motion that speaks about health facilities both in the urban and rural areas. It is a very important motion especially to the people in the rural areas. There were quite a number of clinics that were visited by the Committee to see how health facilities and services are going in the rural areas. We spoke to a number of nurses at some clinics and they told us that things are not well. They also spoke about facilities or rooms where they store their medicines. Some of the rooms have no windows and those are rooms where the temperatures must be regulated in order to preserve the medicines.
In some clinics, containers are being sold and medicines are stored in those containers and the temperatures in those containers affect the medicines. Some clinics do not even have cotrimoxazole, which is used to boost the health of people especially living with HIV/AIDS. So, Government must prioritise people’s health because that is the only way one is able to work and take care of their families. Government should also put measures to ensure that our hospitals have radiographers. There are no X-Ray facilities as well. People sometimes travel from rural areas to the urban areas to access such services. When they go to referral hospitals, sometimes they are given dates to come back after two months or so for them to be examined, but the disease cannot wait. In those two months, they might have deteriorated.
In most rural areas, there are no ambulances, one Hon. Senator talked about that. People are ferried to hospitals on wheel-burrows or ox-drawn carts. In the 1970s/80s in rural areas, you would find ambulances yet in this time and age, where things can be easily accessible even through technology, you still find hospitals with no ambulances. Sometimes as we go towards elections, people donate ambulances but when that candidate loses, they withdraw those ambulances, there are a lot of inconsistencies.
In some clinics, you cannot even find a small refrigerator where medicines that require refrigeration are stored. You will be told that it broke down two years or so ago. If you are looking for medicine, you are then told to go to an urban area so as to find medicine that is stored in a refrigerator. People will travel for long distances to get that medicine. If you are from Nharira, you will have to go to Chivhu. You will spend about USD10 for transport only. The Ministry of Health should ensure that the facilities are within the reach of people. We would expect that by now, clinics should have resident doctors but you find a nurse or nurse aide running a clinic. The Ministry of Health should address this problem because health is very important to the people. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Sustainable Management of Waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Measures to Combat Human Trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings, held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. RWAMBIWA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 18th May, 2023.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU seconded by HON. SEN. MABIKA the Senate adjourned at Two Minutes past Four o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 17th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I wish to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the Zambian Parliamentary Committee on Delegated Legislation led by Hon. Mutale. You are most welcome Hon. Members. – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear]-
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following apologies - [HON. MARKHAM: Inaudible interjection.] – Hon. Markham, if you want to have a tete-a-tete, please come around and sit near your fellow Hon. Member.
I have received the following apologies from Ministers: Hon. C.D.G.N Chiwengwa, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care; Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance and Economic Development; Hon. O.C.Z Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs; Hon. F. M. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade; Hon. E. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Sports, Arts and Recreation; Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and Hon. Prof. A. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education.
Hon. Mhona had sent an apology but he managed to finish his business on time.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, it is with regards to the absence of Ministers. Even though the majority of them who are more likely to be cast in stone in terms of their apologies; they always give apologies week in, week out. I do not know what it takes for Hon. Mhona and Hon. Ziyambi to be here at all times on Wednesdays whilst we have Ministers who hardly come to Parliament and they do not even attend to any question – even written questions, they do not attend to them regardless of them having Deputy Ministers. I foresee our Leader of Government Business Hon. Ziyambi and our Speaker of Parliament have so much duty in terms of talking to them so that they come to the House. It looks like they are not moving at all. What does it take for us to make them move? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mutseyami. I think we will keep a proper record of these apologies and then if we see that there are more than three apologies, then the Hon. Ministers will have to account why they continually send out messages and then we take it from there. We will now keep a register and ensure that those that continue to give apologies in spite of the fact that this is within their rights in terms of Standing Orders, are made to come but I think an endeavor should be made so that they come and answer questions accordingly.
HON. GONESE: On a point of order…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have ruled and there is no follow up.
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like to follow up…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is it a different issue altogether?
HON. T. MLISWA: It could be…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You think I do not understand English. It is just a follow up. Just sit down.
HON. GONESE: A very good day to you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of order relates to a pertinent issue which was raised yesterday by Hon. Biti in relation to an inquiry which was supposed to be conducted by two parliamentary Committees, the Committee on Public Accounts and the Committee on Budget and Finance. Hon. Biti raised the issue that as Parliament, we have the right to inquire into various and different matters but more particularly, all institutions of Government are accountable to Parliament. It is in this context and in this vein that the two Committees referred to intended to conduct investigations into what is colloquially referred to as the Gold Mafia saga. When the issue was raised, the Deputy Speaker was in the Chair. The pertinent issue which was raised was that there was a letter or memo which was purported to have come from your esteemed office.
One of the points for clarification was whether indeed your office had issued such a memorandum to bar those committees from conducting those investigations on the pretext that other agencies of the State were more competent to deal with the matters. This is a matter Mr. Speaker…
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order:
HON. GONESE: My point of order is that we are expecting that ruling Mr. Speaker because the Deputy Speaker promised that since the memo did not emanate from the Deputy Speaker’s office, the Speaker when he was available would make a ruling or pronouncement as to the correct state of affairs. This is where I am seeking your office to clarify matters, not just for the benefit of the august House of the Members of Parliament but for the benefit of all Zimbabweans who are eagerly awaiting investigations by the relevant Portfolio Committees into the issue which I have alluded to.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. No Committee was barred and the Committees will exercise their oversight, if you read my statement properly. It is there in the Daily News. If you want a hard copy, we will favour you with that. It is still an open question, so read it carefully. We will make it available to you but it is well covered, untruncated by the Daily News. Thank you – [HON. HWENDE: Ko isu tisingagone kuverenga todii?] –
THE HON. SPEKER: Endai kuchikoro.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. We have the road construction and rehabilitation exercise which your Ministry is undertaking. What measures have you put in place to ensure that the trucks that are using these roads are according to the weights required. In simple terms, where are the weighbridges for each truck so that the roads are not destroyed? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank my colleague Member of Parliament, Hon. Themba Peter Mliswa for the very important question that he has raised. Indeed, Hon. Mliswa is right. We have seen that on a number of our major roads, we did not have weighbridges. Currently, just to cite an example, for anyone just carrying a wheelbarrow full of lithium, if you were to measure it, it will be in tonnes but by mere looking, you will not be in a position to tell whether the truck is carrying excess load or not.
I am glad to announce to the august House Mr. Speaker Sir, that we are seized with the matter. We have done procurement to have weighbridges along our major highways, especially coming from the mining communities. Precisely, this is what we are doing as a Ministry that we have tendered and procured. Very soon you will be seeing us having weighbridges, especially to mitigate on the issues to do with trucks that are plying mining communities. I want to thank the Hon. Member for highlighting that. Indeed, it is the plan of the Ministry to make sure that we have weighbridges so that we mitigate the issues of continuous degradation of our roads by truckers. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Hon. Minister, it is good you have mentioned that the mining companies are the culprits. What measures have you put in place to make sure that they compensate or they add to that? Surely, these companies are rich enough to contribute to the weighbridges that you require. What measures have you put in place so that they are responsible and they are also putting in money where they are making money and they are damaging the roads?
HON. MHONA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank Hon. Mliswa again for the very important follow up question. In terms of legislation, we do not have anything that mandates mining companies to partake in the construction of whether it is roads or weighbridges. I will humbly appeal to this august House so that when we craft our laws, besides moral suasion where we are saying they have to play to the corporate social responsibility, we make it mandatory so that those who are mining in our communities must take charge of infrastructure within their purview.
However, as we speak Mr. Speaker Sir, we do not have something to mandate mining companies to say ‘they must’ but we are appealing to them through corporate social responsibility to also participate in rehabilitating our roads. It would be ideal for the august House if we were to incorporate that after wide consultations.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. If I may humbly indicate the Hon. Minister that if you could refer to Environmental Management Agency Act (EMA). Sections 98 to 102, part of your concern is clearly stated there and between yourself and the Minister of Environment and Tourism, you might be able to get some way forward.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, I am sure you could indulge me on this. Minister, can you not bring the law to this House yourself so that we have a law that will…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I knew you would come through the backdoor. That is a question, not a point of clarification – [HON. T. MLISWA: Because he said…] – I have advised the Hon. Minister in all humility and he is guided accordingly.
HON. T. MLISWA: I stand guided Mr. Speaker.
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: My supplementary question to the Minister is, instead of using moral persuasion to get these companies to construct weigh bridges which will be very counter-productive in the first place because they will not be in a hurry and this is why we have spent 43 years without weigh bridges, why do we not subcontract the private investors to construct these weigh bridges on a BOT arrangement; people will be bringing in money and it is transferred to the Government in say 10 – 20 years?
HON. MHONA: I will start by thanking you Hon. Speaker, in particular for the guidance relating to the EMA Act section that you have cited. We will look into that and take advantage of that very important piece of legislation. To answer the question that was posed by Hon. Mayihlome, which is very important, maybe Hon. Mayihlome did not get me well when I said moral persuasion. When it comes to the issue of moral persuasion, it is not about the construction of weigh bridges but I was saying in terms of corporate social responsibility.
However, to answer his question, we have actually engaged private players so that they also do the BOT project, which he has rightly suggested so that they take charge of these weigh bridges so as not to burden Treasury. This is something that is underway and as soon as it is done, we will advise the august House of the development. However, I want to agree with Hon. Mayihlome that yes, we cannot continue saying one will come and do construction of the weigh bridges but we have to be innovative. That is what we have done as a Ministry to think outside the box so that we engage private players to partake in the exercise of building weigh bridges.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you from ZBC? - [ZBC CREW MEMBER: Yes.] – Your Hon. Minister is here and I want to say this in her presence. The parliamentary sessions are important. They need to be covered right from start and there is no excuse at all. Hon. Minister, it has been a habit with some of these crews coming 30 minutes after the event. They must be respectful of what Parliament does as a national institution. I hope you have taken my word. – [ZBC CREW: Mr. Speaker, noted.] – [THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES: Ndimubatsire.] – Aiwa, hapana zvekubatsira apa, vanonoka vanogara vachinonoka.
HON. NDUNA: The railway lines were themselves made for heavy cargo, would it please the Hon. Minister to transfer as was the recommendation in the First Session of the Ninth Parliament that 15% of minerals or cargo from mining houses be transferred to the NRZ as opposed to utilising the heavy trucks on our roads in order first to utilise NRZ and secondly, to mitigate issues to do with the rehabilitation of our roads?
HON. MHONA: Under normal circumstances, excess load must not be found on our roads, that is why we have seen a sorry state of our roads because truckloads were plying our roads, not necessarily using the railway line. I am also happy to appraise the august House that we are seized now in trying to rehabilitate our rail. As you know, we have got close to 2 600 km of rail network in this country and we only have 10% which needs urgent attention. As we speak, we are busy trying to make sure we activate and rehabilitate those cautions. Cautions are as good as potholes when we talk of roads but when we talk of rail they are cautions.
As we speak, we are seized in trying to make sure that we rehabilitate the cautions so that we do not have derailments of our locomotives. So, precisely, we do agree with Hon. Nduna that excess load has to be transferred from the roads to the railway line. We also need to be capacitated through NRZ and it is also my humble plea again to this august House as you then do your budgets, remember the Ministry in that regard. Thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: What assurance does the nation has that if you bring in weigh bridges the revenue that will come from there will be deployed where it is supposed to be deployed looking at the fact that you put up tollgates but our roads still remain dilapidated?
HON. MHONA: Let me thank Hon. Sibanda for that important question and maybe to correct my fellow learned colleague that yes, the roads are in a sorry state but we have done tremendous work in trying to resuscitate some of them. We know that for over 40 – 50 years, our roads were not attended to or maintained but for the last five years, as much as we are behind Hon. Speaker, we have tried to resuscitate our roads alas the budgetary constraints. We are tapping into the fiscus and we are not getting concessionary loans to rehabilitate our roads. We also have competing factors when it comes to the budget, so the moment we think of rehabilitating the entire nation at the expected and anticipated pace, it might not be to the betterment of my fellow Hon. Members. However, I want to assure the august House that even if we talk of tollgates; we are paying tollgates as we speak and it is not enough to rehabilitate all our roads. That is why we are now thinking outside the box where we are also appealing to the private sector to partner the Ministry so that we rehabilitate and reconstruct our roads.
I want to agree and say the roads are in a sorry state but it is going to take time Hon. Speaker. We were not witnessing yellow machines, the blue machines rehabilitating our roads but of late, we have been seeing that we are busy trying to rehabilitate.
Once again, to the electorate, yes, Government has got people at heart and we are coming, whether we are doing the trunk roads but we are also extending to the communities that live in the urban centers.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: The Hon. Minister has raised points that need further interrogation for example, his argument is that…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You cannot be privileged to ask for a secondary supplementary. If you want further information, put it in writing so that it can be answered next week – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjections.] – who recognised you Hon. Mliswa? You do not open your mouth before you are recognised.
HON. KASHIRI: My question is directed to the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry. I would like to know what is Government policy on the issuance of mining exploration licences on heritage sites.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank Hon. Kashiri for the question on Government policy in terms of exploration licences on Heritage Sites. The Government does not issue any exploration licences on Heritage sites in order to preserve them, thus there is no policy on mining in those areas. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Kambamura you are here? My apologies to the Hon. Leader of Government Business, Hon. Ziyambi. I had not recognised the Hon. Deputy Minister.
HON. KASHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question arises from a Government Gazette of 28th April, 2023 via the Mines Affairs Board where a company is seeking an exploration order in Manna Pools Resort Area which is a World Heritage Site. So, if our Government policy states that there should not be any issuance of such licences, what is the Hon. Minister’s stance Hon. Speaker Sir?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. KAMBAMURA): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development received an application from the said company. As a matter of procedure when we receive those applications, they go through the Mining Affairs Board. Then they are gazetted for public opinion and for the public to also object if they are not in favour of the application, that is the procedure.
After the gazetting is when the Mining Affairs Board would now sit to deliberate on whether to issue the EPO or not. So that EPO has not been issued and it is just a matter of procedure that is happening that we put that application in the Gazette. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir! Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is a blessing that we have the Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry here as well. This is an issue…
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. T. MLISWA: It would also be interesting to ask him why his Ministry did not object to that since they are the custodians of the environment. If you understand what I am saying that they are responsible for environment, yet these applications are happening and other people do not have the resources to do that. Why can they not object to that to protect the environment? This is just what I needed to indulge from you so that …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. The fundamental issue here is the issuance of the licence by the Minister of Mines and Mining Development and he must answer why they allow such issuance of licences where there are heritage sites? Where people are not allowed to do so. So the Hon. Minister must answer that. – [HON. T. MLISWA: They ought to protect that, it is their job to protect!] – Order! The fundamental issue is the issuance of licence, please, not the end result of the use of that licence.
HON. KAMBAMURA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. As I said before, that licence was not issued. It is like when one applies for a job and is not yet granted that job but waiting for an interview. We cannot say just because he applied for the job, he has been offered the job. We are still going through the processes but all the same, all natural heritage areas are taken as reserved areas.
When one is applying for an Exclusive Prospecting Order (EPO) or if we are to grant an EPO; those reserved areas are protected areas and we do not issue any licences on such areas. I would like to urge Hon. Members to allow the Ministry to go through its processes. As of now, no licence has been issued. It is still an application to be considered. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Good afternoon, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker, the Leader of the House answered in his first response that there is no need to answer the question because heritage sites are protected. There is no requirement for a mining law there because they are protected. Why are we going through a procedure in an area that is protected by Mining Rights? The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs in his first response answered perfectly and said they are protected. Why are we now in his own words considering a job application when there is no job?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, did you understand the question?
HON. KAMBAMURA: Yes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Proceed.
HON. KAMBAMURA: What happened on the application is that it is not fully covering the protected area. It is overlapping the protected area. On the area that is not protected, we allowed to issue an EPO; that is why we allowed it to sail through. Then when it comes back to the Mining Affairs Board is when they will now consider to say, we cannot issue on this protected portion but on this portion that is open.
We are allowing that process to go through then afterwards we consider the application.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir! My point of order Mr. Speaker Sir is that the Hon. Minister is being inconsistent. I come from Shurugwi and Boterekwa is one of the areas where the Ministry of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry did not want that to happen. How they were bulldozed to issuing a mining permit in Boterekwa where I come from, ndiko kumusha, ndiro dzinza redu and madzishe are not happy with that. The Ministry of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry had said no but you then issued. What made you issue that?
That is another one, if you go to Boterekwa today, it is destroyed and madzishe hakunawo kwaanogona kuyenda kunopira midzimu yavo. Saka chii chamuri kuita nenyika? If they continuously do that, then the Environmental Management Agency (EMA) will stop and then they are bulldozed. Who is behind influencing you to do this, that must be the question? Who is influencing you to go to these heritage places and issue mining licences? We cannot destroy our heritage for the sake of money because our culture is fast losing itself. We are no longer Zimbabweans without a culture, heritage and tradition ndiko kusaka tirikuramba tichingo suffer because muri kupinda munzvimbo dzisingapindwe!
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon. Minister, with that clarification, would you like to respond?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): May I assist the Hon. Minister Mr. Speaker Sir?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You want to assist?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): In my earlier response, I indicated the policy. What is now following are specific issues that need to be investigated. I plead with you Mr. Speaker if the follow up questions are now very specific, the first question from Hon. Kashiri was general. What is the policy as regards to those areas and I duly answered, but if there are issues that emanate from that response pertaining to specific areas, I am seeking your indulgence for that to be put in writing so that a comprehensive answer can be given – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, I have not responded to the intervention by the Leader of Government Business. The important thing here is that – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Chibaya and Hon. Hwende -[Laughter.]-
Hon. Mliswa and others – where it is known that there is an infringement, kindly put your questions in writing for next week so that the Minister can respond in detail. It should not be Boterekwa only; if there are any other areas, please put them in writing so that the Hon. Minister or Ministry can make some investigation and we take it up from there.
HON. T. MLISWA: I would like to recommend…
THE HON. SPEAKER: A recommendation beyond my ruling?
HON. T. MLISWA: No, your ruling is good. It is just to support it. These issues are of national interest and our own chiefs are not happy working together with the Ministry of Environment, can they come up with a lease because we also have to represent them? I know Boterekwa because the chiefs there told me that they are not happy with what happened but there are many of these which have happened and the Minister of Environment said they have issued. Can they both sit down and come up with a Ministerial Statement in terms of this issue because this is a very important issue in terms of our culture, heritage and tradition?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I hear you. My ruling is not being extended by your statement. I have said if there are specific infringements on these heritage sites, please ask specific questions for next week.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I am still going back to the policy. The esteemed Minister of Justice says the policy is that if there are protected areas then mining rights cannot be granted but that policy needs clarity from the Minister of Mines. Currently, before this august House is the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill. That Bill actually allows invasion of those protected sites including cemeteries and our homes. We need policy clarification and statement that you cannot invade and allocate mining rights to protected areas including national parks. Right now, as I am talking to you – in Mutoko the homestead of Njapi, the Queen of the Buja people – Shumba Nyamuzihwa is being invaded by Chinese people who are mining in this area. What is the policy with regards to this?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, can you refer to the Hansard of last week. There is an adverse report pertaining to the Mines and Minerals Bill…
HON. BITI: It does not touch on this aspect.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It does touch. Kindly read that adverse report - [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjection.]- Order Hon. Leader, ndichiri panyangaka –[Laughter.]-
HON. NDUNA: On a point of order – in the advent of the adverse report, the current Mines and Minerals Act if not expeditiously dealt with, it has got the prowess of reversing both the agrarian reform programme and all other laws because it superseded all other laws. It is moribund, rudimentary and antiquated, archaic–[Laughter.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Nduna, we are in the process of refining that Act and the issues you are raising now have been raised by the Parliamentary Legal Committee. So please, do not flog a dead horse.
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, in his absence, the Leader of Government Business. What are you doing about the plight of pensioners, war veterans and senior citizens whose little income is being eroded on a daily basis by the depreciating RTGs?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The policy on review of pension allowance is the same as that for civil servants. When civil servants’ salaries are reviewed, the pensioners allowances are also reviewed at the same time.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you are flooding the debate today with too many points of order.
HON. T. MLISWA: I do not know, if it is not a valid one you can always ...
THE HON. SPEAKER: Why do you not ask a supplementary question?
HON. T. MLISWA: I think it is in concurrence with the question, which he asked, and if I let it go, it will not make sense.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, you ask a supplementary question.
HON. T. MLISWA: Okay, I will do so Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. BRID. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question to the Leader of Government Business is, if you consider a retired headmaster earning between an equivalent of USD13 to USD22 per month then you will tell these senior citizens who have built this country to where it is today and who have made us what we are, sitting in this august House and say they should survive on USD22 per month. How far can USD22 take you Hon. Minister? How many hours does that amount of money take you? I think we should not be insensitive to the plight of pensioners because they are powerless and they are old. Then we say we will review when Government is going to review. When is that review going to be done Hon. Minister? I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. The way I understood the first question was the policy as regards when reviews are done and that is what I answered. As to when the exact date, that will depend on the negotiations that are being done by the Tripartite Negotiating Forum. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question to the Minister is, since the pensioners do not have representation of their own in the Tripartite Negotiation Forum, what measures is Government going to put in place to ensure that their concerns are considered when negotiations are going through?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Before, I call the Hon. Minister, I think if you listened very carefully to the Hon. Leader of the House, he said their concerns will be incorporated because the review will be across the board, inclusive of these pensioners. I thought I heard the Hon. Minister clearly.
After Hon. T. Mliswa having borrowed a gadget
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, next time bring your own gadget. You are a seasoned Member here.
HON. T. MLISWA: Yes, I will do that. It is quite unprofessional. Mr. Speaker Sir, well and good that the Minister talks about review. Do you factor in inflation when you review and why can you not pay them in USD? I know most people are being paid in USD a portion so that there is disposable income. Thank you.
HON, ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank Hon. Mliswa for the question. Mr. Speaker, the whole basis for negotiation of salary increase is because of inflation. So, it is given that if everything was equal we would not be negotiating. That is the major driving factor of negotiating to say, listen last year we were getting this, because of the factors we are requesting a rise and Government will then say this is our ability to pay and we meet each other in-between. That is the whole basis. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you are too fast. Your speed is too high. Please sit down. Hon. Minister, the import of the question was that - is there any possibility of part payment in USD?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My understanding is that part of everyone who is on Government salary; there is a portion of USD. Thus, the understanding that I have. Unless otherwise if he has specific pensioners who are not getting it but I believe the policy is that everyone will get a portion in USD. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is only proper for the Minister to say he does not know because we have war veterans, they are not paid the USD despite the review. So, I think it is only good to come with a proper answer because it will upset a lot of people. The war veterans’ pensions are not in USD and I think Hon. Mayihlome who is the Chairperson of the Defence Committee can assist and him being a war veteran, are they being given part payment in USD? This is a serious issue. Let us check first because this is a Parliament of records. We are on TV and everybody is seeing this nationally. We must be factual. If we are not factual, then you research and then come back to Parliament and respond.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I thought he was going to challenge me by giving me an example of those that are covered by our general pensions note. The war veterans have their own Act and their pension is administered separately. If there are problems there, they need to go through their relevant Ministry to deal with their issue because their issues are governed by their own separate Act. If that has not been happening, I think it needs to be rectified, that is the general understanding. If you have any specifics of those that are outside the mainstream, you can bring those forward. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, why do you not also make your investigations and come up with something tangible.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you. That is why I have asked Hon. Mayihlome, the war veteran and Chairperson of the Defence Committee to look at that. Are they given USD?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, I said come up with evidence – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – Order Hon. Mliswa.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. For those above 65 years of age, they get treated for free in government hospitals. Would it please the Hon. Minister because a lot of our pensioners have died through shock and all due to the bills that are presented to them by local authorities. Would it please the Hon. Minster whilst negotiations are taking place, for pensioners’ bills to be held in abeyance until at least there is enough income to pay their bills in their local authorities and to get stands for free according to the Urban Councils Act Section 152 and 205.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are now titivating on specifics. Let us stick to policy as asked by the original questioner.
HON. P. MASUKU: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport. What is the Government policy with regard to responding to emergencies within our major highways where we have seen a lot of property being destroyed and there is nothing to assist those that are in that dilemma? Even those that fall in road traffic accidents, what is the Government policy in terms of mitigating towards that area?
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is Government policy in mitigating those who get involved in accidents or what?
HON. P. MASUKU: There was a case at Chibi turnoff where there was a road traffic accident, a traffic pile-up and they caught fire but there was no assistance in terms of emergency services. That is the question in terms of policy, what is the Government policy in terms of assisting those that fall in that predicament within our highways.
Hon. Mliswa having stood up on a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa. I must spread engagement in this House – [HON. T. MLISWA: But I have a point of order.] – No. – [HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection. I wanted Hon. Mavima who is now here to respond and he is the specific Minister appointed.] – Order, we have concluded that. Wadya manonoko.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MADIRO): If I understood the Hon. Member’s question properly, as Government, it is true that we have serious accidents, which require urgent attention to victims particularly given the fact that there is what we call “the golden hour”. It is very important to attend to accident victims in time, otherwise if there are delays, we lose lives. As Government, the Ministry of Transport, together with the Ministry of Health is looking into putting together a responsive facility by identifying strategic points along the highways where we put facilities like ambulances and experts to respond to such urgent situation, like mobile trauma centres. This is a matter which Government is applying itself, to make sure that we have those facilities along strategic positions in the highways.
HON. MADZIMURE: We have had several accidents; fatal ones and the Ministry has been promising to look into the matter including stationing fire brigades or ambulances at tollgates but this has not happened. When is the Ministry going to ensure that happens and can it give us a timeline as to when this is going to be implemented because only last week, we have two accidents; one along Bindura where people perished and were burnt beyond recognition, and yesterday but one there was also another one and several others. So, when is the Ministry going to ensure that we have those facilities?
HON. MADIRO: The supplementary question from the Hon. Member is very important. The setting of such facilities requires a lot of resources plus expertise. …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chibaya, this is a very important question where you need to report back to your constituency. Listen very carefully.
HON. MADIRO: I was saying the setting up of such centres involves a lot of resources as well as a lot of expertise. We are dealing with lives here, which needs to be saved and it cannot be approached in a lackadaisical way. Our experts in the Ministry of Health and Ministry of Transport, particularly the Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe are actually trying to benchmark in terms of what is involved to put such a facility to match world standards. I want to conceive that it is an urgent matter and our experts are applying themselves accordingly.
HON. NDUNA: I have three proposals in order to fund the Accident Victims Stabilisation Centres that the Hon. Minister speaks about. Would it please the Hon. Minister to repudiate the third-party insurance and channel it towards the establishment of the Accident Victims Stabilisation Centres?
Secondly, there is $15 per seat for public transport which sees public transport paying about US$1 500 to $2 500 per bus towards passenger insurance which needs to compensate US$4 000 for the bereaved and US$2 000 for those injured. Would it please the Hon. Minister to take that passenger insurance money and channel it towards the establishment of the Accident Victims Stabilisation Centres Madam Speaker.
Thirdly, the proposal that I have is for taking our resources according to Section 13 (4) of the Constitution, minerals in particular, in order to supplement, complement, and finance the establishment of the Accident Victims’ Stabilisation Centers. Would it please the Minister to look into those three aspects and finance the same?
THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): Whilst the Government is looking for several sources of funding for such programmes, it would be my duty to concede to the Hon. Member’s submission in terms of suggestions of where funding can be sourced. The suggestions are positive enough and we will be able to be looking at those suggestions as well amongst others. I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The issue that has been raised by Hon. Nduna is an issue that was once debated in this august House. The whole House and the Cabinet Ministers agreed that the issue of 3rd part insurance does not assist much; instead, it should be channeled to the Road Accident Fund so that all victims of accidents get assistance.
Madam Speaker, some issues deserve to be treated as matters of urgency. This issue of Zimbabwean roads is a matter of urgency. Our roads have been declared a state of emergency. The Road Rehabilitation Programme did not fully address this issue. The matter is now supposed to be put in the inter-ministerial task force that the Cabinet normally does so that we get feedback before the end of this Ninth Parliament Session.
Every month we are recording a number of accidents and we are losing our loved ones because of these accidents. May this matter be treated with the urgency it deserves. At one point we lost a Member of Parliament in a road accident in Gokwe and this issue was debated that something must be done but to no avail. I thank you – [ HON. T. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Order Hon. Mliswa! Thank you Hon. Hamauswa regarding the important question that you have raised. I am sure the Leader of Government Business has taken note of that and he will attend to that matter together with the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development.
*HON. HWENDE: My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. He is not present today and he is one of those Ministers who does not attend Parliament. However, I will direct the question to the Leader of Government Business, Hon. Ziyambi.
What is Government policy with regard to farmers who are selling their products to GMB and being paid a huge component in RTGS? The RTGS will not enable these farmers to buy inputs for the next cropping season.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Hwende did not come out clearly with his question. The Government has pronounced the maize prices in the country, the prices were clearly spelled out in USD and RTGS.
*HON. HWENDE: My issue Madam Speaker is that even though all of us here know that the money we are getting is very little, farmers are being paid in RTGS. Why is the Government not considering giving them in USD for all their produce just like what is being done beyond the borders? Right now, the Government is paying farmers RTGS and expects them to go to shops where prices are being inflated.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: What Hon. Hwende is saying in other words is encouraging Government not to pay in RTGS but USD. The truth is that we cannot stop paying farmers in RTGS. As a Government, we can only put measures to control and stabilise the inflation rates on the parallel market. If you look at all the countries around the world, Zambia for example, has once done it but eventually moved away from that decision and opted for their own currency, the Kwacha. We have to promote our own currency if we want to control our own economy. We cannot therefore say we are no longer paying in RTGS, we cannot dump the RTGS because it has lost value and we adopt another currency – that is not possible. I actually expect Hon. Hwende to come up with sustainable solutions on how we can work around the issue.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I agree with Hon. Ziyambi that our money is very important but it has no value, it is a weak currency. They are buying using United States Dollars but again, our local farmers are being paid in RTGS, they cannot get the same foreign currency, $335 that was mentioned to say was going to be paid to farmers. What is the percentage of the RTGs? What is the percentage of the foreign currency to be paid to farmers?
Unless they are living in a different country, let there be a provision to say, we are going to use the RTGS to buy farming inputs in the country. Let us not lie to each other, our local currency has no value at all. A good example is, if the car is not performing well, we park it, we cannot force matters. It does not mean that the car is not functional but we are fixing it as we park it. When the car is now fixed and fully functional, we adopt it but we are being asked to have the RTGS competing with the USD; it is actually being comic. We must not play politics with reality.
Let us search all the Ministers in the House to see how many people have United States Dollars. I have dollars also but do you have the local currency? As Ministers, they are paid in United States Dollars, that is what they are using and that is what has value. We are saying farmers should get money in RTGS that has value so that they are able to purchase inputs using money with value. Even wheat farmers are in a predicament. We want to know, for $335.00 to be paid to farmers, we have seen that happening in tobacco. Farmers should be allowed to buy subsidised farming inputs. The land reform cannot proceed because the pricing is very poor.
We have taken over farms as black people but we continue to suffer, there is no subsidy on the inputs. I agree with Hon. Hwende, the issue of farming produce should be paid in USD and 15% should be in RTGS.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DR. MAVETERA): May you please ask your question?
*HON. T. MLISWA: The question is, let us park the RTGS, it is a very weak currency. Let us adopt the United States Dollar. The Zimbabwe Dollar is not working, labour and inputs require United States Dollars…
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Mliswa! He did not ask any question but just gave a suggestion. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – there was no question that was asked! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members! - [HON. T. MLISWA: I can repeat the question Madam Speaker!] – I gave you an opportunity to pose your question to the Hon. Minister but instead you were busy giving solutions.
*HON. T. MLISWA: What I am asking Madam Speaker is, what is the component of the USD? What is the component of the RTGS?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your question really?
*HON. T. MLISWA: What is the percentage of the USD? What is the percentage of the RTGS – that is my question.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your question is very specific, meaning the Hon. Minister has to go and research, and come back with detailed information.
* HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. The question that has been asked on the USD335.00; 135 will be paid in RTGS Zimbabwe Dollars.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, what I said before is, if you look at foreign currency; if we look at Botswana and Kenya, their currency is stable. We cannot throw away our own currency as a country. What we want is Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Biti to come and give their opinions on how we can strengthen our currency, not that he prefers Biden’s currency, that is not a solution.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Our currency is losing value. Can there be an opportunity given to those working on the issue of currency to come up with a sustainable solution? My question is derived from what the Hon. Minister said earlier on. We should give an opportunity to those who are working on the monetary policy to come up with sustainable solutions to this problem. The Hon. Minister is there working. How many more years does he need to come back with a solution to strengthen our local currency? How many more years do they need?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I also want to thank the Hon. Member for his important question. I think the Hon. Member is lost with this question. We started introducing Instruments to retain the USD in 2019, I think that he mixed issues as he was speaking. – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Inaudible interjection.] – My young brother has now made himself a Speaker.
We should make sure that our currency is strengthened wherever we are. The fundamentals should remain correct so that our currency remains strong. It is the responsibility of whoever is Governor to make sure that all the fundamentals remain correct and our currency is strong because the best way to attack a country is to attack its currency.
*HON. NDIWENI: My question is more or less the same as the one that has been asked but slightly different. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. During the last two weeks, Government issued a policy that some of the businesses….
*HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, why is ZBC going out whilst you are assuming your seat….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are out of order Hon. I was hear at 1530 hours and they are now going….
*HON. T. MLISWA: But we still have question time. Where are they going? If Hon. Paradza loses elections, ZBC goes there and interviews him. This is an issue of factions….
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are out of order Hon. Mliswa.
*HON. T. MLISWA: ZBC must cover all the question time. This is a national event. Hey ZBC, has the Speaker told you anything? Makuvadherera. Mukuenda kupi question time haisati yapera?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are out of order Hon. Mliswa - [HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: We should have more television stations in this country.] – Order Hon. Members.
*HON. NDIWENI: My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. During the last two weeks, Government announced that all local companies that sell commodities in foreign currency should keep their money as it is. Are farmers going to enjoy this benefit when they sell their tobacco? Are they going to be paid in USD since we have this new policy?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): This question is specific and needs to be directed to the relevant stakeholder so that a pronouncement is made on how the farmers will be paid.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Ndiweni, may you put your question in writing so that proper research is done. Your question is specific and you cannot ask a supplementary question.
*HON. NDIWENI: Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I think we need a definition of a specific question. When a member asks about tobacco farmers, it is not a specific question. This is a policy matter and if the Hon. Minister does not have an answer, he should defer it to the relevant Minister rather than to tell the Hon. Minister that it is a specific question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mushoriwa. It was a specific question because what he was asking needs to be researched and brought back to the House.
HON. HAMAUSWA: The Hon. Member asked about a policy governing issuance of money to tobacco farmers, which is guided by a specific policy which is there and is known. We expect the Leader of Government Business in the House to be aware of that policy. How are the tobacco farmers going to get their USD? It is a simple question, which should be answered, and the tobacco farmers are listening today. They need that answer.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Like what the Hon. Leader of the House said, it needs to be written down.
*HON. TEKESHE: My question is directed to the Minister of Mines. Since independence, we have been speaking about beneficiation but nothing has happened. We are poor because minerals are exported whilst raw. How far have you gone with beneficiation so that we do not remain poor?
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The Hon. Member’s question is not true. Beneficiation has been taking place and is still taking place. The mining industry is growing and if the Hon. Member does not know that, maybe he is not staying in Zimbabwe. Unki Mine is beneficiating. We banned the export of lithium so that we do beneficiation. The introduction of the Energy Park in Mapinga – that is beneficiation. We are beneficiating loads and loads of tonnes of gold and if you go to the Ministry of Mines, they can supply you documents relating to beneficiation and the expansion of our mining industries.
*HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon. Tekeshe talked about the suffering of people out there. They said 78% but we can say the entire population is suffering. There are no results of beneficiation and value addition taking place. All we are witnessing is poverty, suffering, the gold mafias and lithium mafias. We need to see the reflection on the results of the beneficiation.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable. There is no question asked but we thank you for the contribution.
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is, apart from mining, can the Leader of Government Business explain where else we are seeing beneficiation? Mining is not the only sector in our economy.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The rules of this House do not allow smuggling in of questions. His was specific to mining, he now wants me to respond to beneficiation in general. I submit that he has diverted from the original question. I thank you.
*HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Ziyambi talked about beneficiation that is taking place and he mentioned that a lot money is being obtained from mining but we are not seeing it on the ground. People are still suffering. Where are the proceeds from beneficiation going? There are no hospitals being constructed. There are no schools constructed and even the lives of people are not improving. There is no development of the industry. The late Libyan leader, Gaddafi used to direct to his people the proceeds from oil. We have several mineral reserves, whom are they benefiting? You have cancelled the Indigenisation Act and you said there is no investment into the country because of the 49:51 percent. Which other law have you put in place to carter for and protect the indigenous people? The foreigners are the only ones benefiting while the citizens are suffering. You say nyika inovakwa nevene vayo but vene venyika vari kutambura nekuti hapana mari iri kuenda kune vene venyika.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. The Minister will only respond to the first question where you asked about the proceeds of beneficiation. The second part of the question is now a completely new question. Hon. Minister, may you respond to the first question.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. The question about where the proceeds are going needs all the documents involved including the taxes paid by companies. I cannot do it here right now. I need to go and investigate and compile the documentation.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question goes to the Minister of Justice and Leader of Government Business. On the 19th of August 2022, the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission published three Statutory Statements namely S. I. 143, S. I. 144 and S. I. 145. These being Statutory Instruments to do with fees that shall be paid by candidates and observers in the 2023 general elections. There was disgruntlement in the general population that the fees that were gazetted by ZEC might be violating Section 67 (3) (b) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. For the benefit of all, it is the right to be voted into office of any Zimbabwean citizen. Those fees that were gazetted are deemed generally by Zimbabweans to be prohibitive. We are about to go into the general elections. What is Government policy to ensure that Section 67 (3) (b) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe is enjoyed by all citizens of Zimbabwe? Thank you Madam Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The enjoyment of Section 67 is going to be realised when we go for elections sometime in August. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker, an election by its nature, is not supposed to be a surprise to any citizen who desires to participate. Therefore, the Hon. Minister should respond to the question. Are we going to get into the elections with these prohibitive nomination fees or Government is going to attend to the revision of those fees so that the rights that are enshrined in that Section are realised? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Madam Speaker, Statutory Instruments are passed by this august House. This august House, which the Hon. Member is a Member passed these statutory instruments and is now asking me because of his own preferences, not the majority here, that I should do something about that statutory instrument. The answer is no!
HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: My supplementary question is pertaining to the procedure of coming up with those prohibitive fees. As far as we are concerned, we just heard from the Gazette. What consultation was done in terms of making sure that the fees are realistic in Zimbabwe?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is surprising that we are approaching the end of the five-year term and Hon. Members are asking questions after the effect. When statutory instruments are published, the Hon. Member was supposed to be on the lookout, raise those questions in here, and ensure that Statutory Instrument does not see the light of the day even after publication. This is subsidiary legislation where you are allowed to publish it. I cannot stand here and answer questions of things that happened and they are a closed chapter. Thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order. My point of order is related to the issue that was raised and I thought it is important that I repeat it again. We requested in this House for the Minister to bring a statement assuring the nation of Zimbabwe that we are going to have a free and fair election without violence and the Minister agreed that the statement is going to be issued in this House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Member. You are now talking of violence, where is it coming from? Please sit down.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order Number 68,
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DELAYS IN TABLING THE JUSTICE UCHENA REPORT
- MARKHAM asked the Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs to explain how much money was used by the Uchena Land Commission and to state when it was paid out.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I did not bring it Madam Speaker and I ask your indulgence to bring it next week.
HON. MARKHAM: The Justice Uchena Report has been on the Order Paper for a very long time, I have asked for it 27 times. Today is the 28th time and vanhu ava vanobwereketa chete, they do nothing.
HON. ZIYAMBI: This is the first time it was referred to the Ministry of Justice, so the other 26 times - I do not know where it was.
HON. MARKHAM: Can he withdraw that statement. He has responded himself numerous times saying he is coming and he has never come. In fact, this very question was referred to his Ministry first and he deferred it to the Ministry of Local Government who then deferred the same question back to his Ministry – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjection.] – Aa-a kana, wakakotsira – [Laughter.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, considering that the Hon. Member has requested this for quite some time, when do you think the report will be here.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Next week.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Okay, thank you. The report will come next week Hon. Markham.
CAUSES OF PNEUMOCONIOSIS IN MINING COMPANIES
- HON. BITI asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to
explain to the House;
- what causes pneumoconiosis in mining companies?
- the probable cause of the increase in cancer cases among the artisanal miners in the gold sector.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. CHIWENGA): Pneumoconiosis is a group of lung diseases caused by the lungs reaction to inhaling dusts. In the mining sector, the main cause is inhalation of asbestos, causing a condition called asbestosis: silicon causing silicosis and coal workers pneumoconiosis. Pneumoconiosis is mainly characterised by tight chest, shortness of breath and coughing. Pneumoconiosis can be prevented by wearing masks, protective clothing and safe removal of dusty clothing.
Gold mining is associated with silicosis and pneumoconiosis and those two conditions can lead to lung cancers. Artisans also have increased prevalence of smoking and alcohol consumption and those two risk factors can lead to many cancers. So it is because of both environmental risk factors like those air particulates from gold mining and also due to behavioural risk factors such as tobacco smoking, alcohol consumption and unhealthy diets that can contribute to increase in cancer cases among artisanal miners. There is also lack of ventilation and other amenities.
HON. BITI: My supplementary is that hundreds, if not thousands of miners, are dying because of pneumoconiosis and the Government knows the reasons but no one is being held to account whether the big mining houses like ZIMPLATS, Unki, Rio Tinto and so on, no one is being held to account. Only a few years ago, the South African High Court granted damages of R5 billion to mine workers who worked in South African gold mines, including Zimbabwean workers who used to go there, what used to be called Wenela. So why is our Government not protecting lives and what measures is the Ministry of Health going to take to protect lives because thousands and thousands of workers are dying. If you hear someone coughing who has got pneumoconiosis, it is shocking, you will think his or her lung is going to pop out - people are suffering. What corrective measures is the government going to take to attend to these terrible lung diseases caused by an unhealthy mining environment? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The policy or the laws of this country dictate that every mine must have a Health and Safety section and they must adhere to the strict rules of how miners should be treated. I believe that it is a question of compliance and awareness and ensuring that these rules are strictly adhered to so that the lives of our people are saved.
The original question was on the causes but the follow-up question now is very specific to say that this is what is happening in our mining areas. What is happening? The simple answer is, there is a need to increase monitoring to ensure that those health and safety workers who are supposed to ensure strict compliance do their work properly.
As for artisanal miners, they do not have strict formal health and safety structures, and those areas again are one area that we hope to improve on as we go on. I thank you.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Madam Speaker, I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 23 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 24 has been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6, 2022]
Twenty Fourth Order read: Resumption of Committee Stage: Prisons and Correctional Services Bill [H. B. 6, 2022].
House in Committee.
On Clause 50:
HON. BITI: Madam Chair, when we parked this issue last week, the issue was that the board that is being set up here is in fact a disciplinary board. It is a disciplinary hearing but the language that is used there is that of a prosecution. So we are conflating instances where a prison officer is being charged for pure employment issues and those issues or instances where he is actually facing criminal charges. For example, if a prison officer is late for duty or drinks on duty, it is a normal disciplinary issue. If a prison officer assists a prisoner in escaping, it is a criminal offense.
Clause 50 is not making a distinction between normal disciplinary issues and criminal issues. The use of the word ‘prosecution’ denotes a criminal activity or intention and in that circumstance, proof must be proof beyond reasonable doubt. As I said last time, it would explain why we removed Clause 49 which we removed and was worded the way it was because it clearly was envisaging criminal prosecution.
So I will suggest that purely for employment issues, we leave a board without a prosecution, with just a normal disciplinary process with someone who will lead the case on behalf of the employer but with those instances which are of a criminal nature. We separate that - we have a board which is for criminal purposes which will have the power of sanctioning a prison officer even to some period of imprisonment or a fine. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair, the way this is structured in the security sector is that even for those misdemeanours that you are deeming not to be criminal, you appear before a board and this is their prosecutor and not the prosecution that you are making reference to; that happens in our courts. So, the way it is couched is correct to indicate that trial board, where it makes reference to the prosecutor.
It is their own prosecutors within the Prison Service when they are doing - it is the way that they do the formal disciplinary procedures to ensure that they maintain the level of discipline that they so require. You will find that within the national army, they have something that is similar to this and also within the police force, they have but where we agreed is where we removed 49. I think we did not need it but this, we need. Perhaps as we go, we can correct other issues like where they say ‘the State case’, it is not the State case when we get to those clauses but this is exactly the way they format it in the security sector settings to ensure that they deal with their members. I submit Hon. Chair.
Clause 50 put and agreed to.
On Clause 51:
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I want to expunge Clause 51, it is consistent with what we have been doing.
Clause 51 accordingly expunged.
Clauses 52 now 51 to 54 now 53 put and agreed to.
On Clause 55 now 54:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Chair. Madam Chair, if you look at Clause 55 (2), the right for an individual to speak in a language of his choice, I think should be stated rather than to simply say that the board has the right to decide whether or not this person should be assisted to speak either in Shona or Ndebele. So, I think that we need a slight amendment on that issue so that we take cognisance of that.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, this is correct as it is, it does not prejudice anything at all. I submit that we leave it as it is. Thank you.
*HON. MUSHORIWA: No, but the onus is actually on the board to make that ruling. Do you know what usually happens when an accused stands on trial? Some people prefer to represent themselves in Shona and it allows them to express themselves better – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjection.] - No, but how do you know that all the prison officers are fluent in English? Yes, some entered through sports.
Clause 55 now 54 put and agreed to.
Clauses 56 now 55 to 61 now 60 put and agreed to.
On Clause 62 now 61:
HON. BITI: Clause 62 relates to the decisions of the board, yes, they should be in writing. This provision does not make it obligatory that it is in writing. The Chairperson can announce, the decisions should be in writing because a member has got a right of appeal, a right of review. So, all decisions should be in writing so that there is no debate in future about what the Chairperson said or did not say. It is customary and standard.
*THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Where is that?
*HON. BITI: On Clause 62 (2), all decisions of the board, which shall be in writing, shall reflect that.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Agreed.
HON. BITI: Then subparagraph (3), the Chairperson shall read the correct review of the board - shall read.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Hon. Chair, I agree, ‘All decisions of the board which shall be in writing’, yes, we can put that but the second one, no.
Amendment to Clause 62 now 61 put and agreed to.
Clause 62 now 61, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 63 now 62:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Hon. Chair. Hon. Minister, I think we need to put a timeline here because with previous convictions, assuming I get into prison service and commit a crime in my first year or two, then I commit another crime after 15 or so years. Surely, that repetition of a crime should not be different from someone who has committed a crime, let us say two or three years before. I think previous convictions should actually have a time limit to simply say a previous conviction in the last five years or so because I think it will have a permanent charge in a file for a long time. I think it is not proper.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I think the way this Clause is couched is very good. It is not prescriptive. It simply says they have to take into consideration the previous convictions into account. So, it is not saying they must, but it is very good in any organisation to know the history of those that do some misdemeanors to say what was the nature of that misdemeanor. You cannot give a time line because somebody might have the propensity of doing the same thing over and over again. Even if the time line is 10 years apart, what is necessitating that kind of behaviour to recur.
Therefore, the way it is couched, I submit that it is good and we must adopt it as it is.
Clause 63 put and agreed to.
Clause 64 put and agreed to.
On Clause 65:
HON. BITI: On the previous section, Hon. Minister, there is a reference of review then on the appeal to the Commission, it uses the word ‘appeal’. If you look at Section 65 (3) (b) ‘a notification of the right of the convicted correctional officer to submit a statement on review through the board within three working days of the date of the pronouncement’. Is it a review on an appeal and why restrict it to three days? I think the period is too short because even in the criminal justice system, the standard now for appeals is 15 days.
My first word is the word ‘review’. I suppose review is incorporating the right of appeal which is fine, but three working days is definitely too short. You might need to go to a lawyer, you might be in Chakari, and you want to go to Harare. So if in normal law and I can see Mukoma Jonathan nodding, we give 15 days the right of appeal surely these prison officers, we need to give them 15 days as well. I might be in Chiendambuya or in Mudzi where there are no roads.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, I agree that let us change the three to 14 working days.
Amendment to Clause 65 put and agreed to
Clause 66 put and agreed to.
On Clause 67:
HON. BITI: There is a proviso now, which is very muddled, and it reads as follows, ‘provided no appeal shall lie under this sub-section unless notice of intention to appeal has been given to the Commissioner-General within seven days and the appeal has been lodged with the Commissioner-General within 14 days.’ So, you have got notice of appeal. Therefore, you express that you want to give an appeal within seven days. You then file the appeal within 14 days. It is not clear that the seven days are incorporated in the 14 days.
Let us do the simple thing – ‘provided that a correctional officer shall have the right to appeal to the Commission within 14 working days through the Commissioner-General’ and then it ends there because as it is now yakango vhiringika vhiringika.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Can you repeat what you just said.
HON. BITI: There shall be a right to the correctional officer to appeal to the Prisons and Correctional Services Commission within 14 days, which notice of appeal shall be submitted through the Commissioner-General. Perhaps let us remove the proviso. Let us just have a sub-section (2) that says a right of appeal…
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I am proposing amendments to Clause 67 as follows: ‘Subsection (1) appeals to the Commission – An appeal against the decision of the Commissioner-General shall lie to the Prisons and Correctional Service Commission which may confirm, vary, remit or enhance any such sentence and may act upon any such recommendations as it deems fit. (2) Such an appeal shall be filed within 14 working days from the date of receipt of the Commissioner-General’s decision’. Then we say ‘provided that no appeal shall lie under this subsection unless notice of intention to appeal has been given to the Commissioner-General. We then delete the rest and renumber so that the current (2), becomes subclause (3).
So this subclause (1) will remain as it is and then we say ‘(2) such an appeal shall be filed within 14 working days from the date of receipt of the Commissioner-General’s decision and then we say a copy of the notice of appeal shall be served on the Commissioner General’ and then (2) becomes (3).
Amendment to Clause 67 put and agreed to.
Clause 67, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 68 put and agreed to.
On Clause 69:
HON. BITI: Thank you very much Chair. What is the purpose of the suitability board? The purpose of the suitability board should be to determine the physical condition, it is a health issue. If it ceases to be a health issue, then it becomes a fault issue. If it ceases to be a health issue, then it becomes a faulty issue. The problem with this provision is that it refers to two issues: suitability or fitness of a correctional service. What do we mean by suitability? If I no longer like a prison officer, I can say he is no longer suitable but what determines suitability? It is really vague and dangerous. We should restrict the special board to medical fitness. Are you medically fit and still mentally corpus? I suggest that we remove the word ‘suitability’ and restrict this to fitness. Are you a fit correctional officer because this is a security issue? Are you still able to run and below 85 kg, can you still see and are you not paralysed? The suitability component is too subjective. I can belong to a different faction of the party; I could go because I am no longer suitable. ‘Suitable’ is too subjective and it must go.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that we delete Clause 69 because it is already covered. What the other board does can lead exactly to the same conclusion and the Commissioner General can do exactly what he wants to do under this clause – that trial process and everything is concluded.
Clause 69 now 68 expunged.
Clause 70 now 68 put and agreed to.
On Clause 71 now 69:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I have a strong feeling that taking a woman together with her baby to prison violates the rights of that baby. Here it says ‘any child who is less than 59 months can accompany the mother to prison’. I am not sure what needs to be done but my view is that if possible that a convicted woman, depending on the gravity of the conviction, may be suspending the sentence would be better then she serves after a certain period after having looked after the child. Taking a child to prison does affect the child and that memory may take long to be removed from the child’s mindset. The child will be disturbed for the entirety of their life.
HON. BITI: I think we need to revisit it – the section says a child will be kept in prison with its mother until it reaches 59 months but it can be released to a relative or friend at 59 months. I think we need to say that no child shall be imprisoned with the mother. The child must be surrendered to the family. If these people are not there, then a Probation Officer must make a decision on the fate of that child. Does it stay with the mother or got into a State institution but to say the child has to go with its mother, it is a breach of serious constitutional rights; the right of freedom of the child which is codified by Section 50 of the Constitution. It is also in breach of the right to human dignity of that child that is codified by Section 51 of the Constitution, the right of freedom of movement and right to association. In short, the sins of the mother should not be visited on the infant. No child should be in detention unless there are special circumstances determined by a Probation Officer who produces a certificate to say that child should stay with the mother. But as it stands, this is unconstitutional because we are taking away the right of the child. Remember Madam Speaker Ma’am that Section 81 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe says the best interest of the child is what is paramount and surely getting into prison cannot be paramount. This provision is terrible and is carried over from the colonial regime. Only black people were arrested.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: Madam Chair, I accept what was said by Hon. Biti but I think if we could just put a clause that no child shall be allowed in prison together with the mother for the offences committed by the mother. We need to consider that the child might be too small and too young and might need breast feeding. When we talk about the probation officer, he or she might not be in a position to think reasonably and say I do not want this child to be in. That person will not have a right to appeal anywhere and I think we must put a clause which says when the child is still in a tender age, the child might still be with the mother for such a period until that child is weaned, something to that effect.
*HON. CHIKUKWA: Madam Chair, I am touched with this issue. I am not supporting that the child should stay in prison with the mother but at the same time, there is no-one who loves a child more than its mother. I am not encouraging mothers to commit crimes thinking that they will not be taken to jail but I am thinking that when the child is still young it needs special care. I once visited Harare Hospital at the children’s section. I was pained seeing a toddler feeding from its excretion. That shows there was no-one taking care of the child. That is why I am saying no-one loves a child more than the mother.
This is a tricky issue that it is difficult to let the child stay in prison with its mother and it is difficult to wean the child from its mother while it is still at a tender age. Truly speaking, there are few relatives that can take good care of someone’s child. At times you will end up saying it was much better if the child had gone with the mother to jail. All we need is a good law that can protect the child whilst with the mother. We can propose for open prisons for those mothers with children so that the child is not exposed to prison conditions or there can be suspension of imprisonment until the child is weaned.
I usually work with women’s prisons. It is painful to see children in jail with their mothers. There should be play centres and creches for these children so that they experience normal life that is experienced outside the prison. Children cannot be separated from their mothers. At times, the mothers commit crimes because they need to support those children. Mothers should first think of the fate of their children before committing crime. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Chair. In our legislative work, the clause is one of the most progressive under the circumstance that we are in. If you look at it, we now have a dedicated clause that speaks to admission of female inmates with infants and admission of pregnant women. If you read it carefully, it says a female inmate may be admitted into a correctional facility for custody with her infant. What we must not do is to read this clause in isolation. Once this particular female inmate is going to be admitted and there is a child, the best interests of the child are triggered in and all those probation officers are involved.
This is now giving a leeway to say, when everything has failed and the best interest of that particular infant dictate that, that infant must be where the mother is, so be it. You must look at it. The Social Welfare will be involved. The correctional officers will be involved. If you read it right through, it even says where (a) and (b) are satisfied before 19 months, you can ensure that the child is removed from prison.
The import of this is, it is acknowledging that there is a problem that a child must not be there, but it is also acknowledging that the best interest of that infant may be saved where that infant is closer to the mother and it is permissive in that it is saying you may then allow that to happen. What we then need to do, like what Hon. Chikukwa has said, have facilities, which is what it says. Where you will have admitted the mother with the infant, it then specifies what must be provided so that the best interests of that particular infant are saved.
If we remove this clause, we will create an administrative chaos. There are certain women where you will not be able to identify anyone where Welfare will not be able to do but in trusting prison and correctional services to provide facilities, supply food, clothing and other necessities prescribed for that infant may actually be the best under the circumstance. Until we realise that level which we are aspiring to Hon. Biti, this clause is one of the clauses that we put in there. I submit to all of us that let us leave it as it is and ensure that we improve our facility. We can ensure that we improve our facility. We cannot guarantee that all the women that go to prison have got relatives. Neither can we guarantee that all the children that will be removed from their mothers and given to social welfare will be looked after better than if they were closer to their mothers. I may submit that if the mother is at our open prison and you take that child to Social Welfare, the child may actually be looked after better by the mother at our open correctional facility.
So, while I hear your sentiments, I submit this clause is very progressive under the circumstances and until such a time when we can realise that particular level of development, we can then remove it outrightly but for now, I submit that let us pass it as it is and move forward. I submit.
HON. BITI: We acknowledge the clarification by the Minister but the Minister must answer the question; Section 71 (1) says a female inmate may be admitted into a prison or correctional facility in the custody with her infant”. So, we acknowledge the discretionary non-peremptory use of the word “may” but who then determines whether the infant is going with her mom or not. I submit that when a child is an infant and by infant, I think putting it to 59 months might be too much. I would propose that we put it at 36 months. Within the space of two years, let the mother choose whether they want the child to be out or with her.
I suspect that if a child is like six months and the baby is suckling, the mother will say, regai ndiende nemwana wangu. Can we put safeguards on the “may”? Who is determining where the child is going? I submit that the choice, if the child is an infant, defined to mean 36 months and below, must lie with the mother because sometimes the mother knows that vakasiira mainini Betty ndosvika mwana afa so better kuti ndiende nemwana wangu kujeri. So, let the discretion be not with the authorities but with the mother. Ndozvandiri kukumbira Minister – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjection.] – so, toti Probation officer, with the consent of the mother - [HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes.] – because the mother can say vakaenda kwaChairman who is a businessman, mwana wangu anochengetwa mushe. – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Inaudible interjection.] – Look it at the way we read it in hear. We read “may” as meaning “shall”. Think now of a Prison officer in a Law and other department. So, let us put safeguards there.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, the way it is, it is actually looking at a scenario where the mother has come with that child, meaning that the mother had nowhere to leave the child – [HON. BITI: Aiwa, anenge abatwa achitengesa matomati paMbare saka haana choice or pick-pocketing at Beitbridge Border post so as a mother, has no choice.] – Yes, ordinarily even the police are not supposed to detain a mother and the child. They must release the child into the custody of a relative. If there is no one, this is upon conviction and whatever you are saying. This is a scenario where a mother walks in and has already made up her mind that the best thing for me to do is to go with my baby.
The authorities now interrogate – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjection.] – and the police will release them into the custody of their relatives. This is a peculiar case where a mother does not have anyone and that is the reason why it says may admit, because she came with the child and everything else has been looked at. Remember our system is such that our correctional officers will have to interview and get all this information and make a determination. I am saying we are just saying the same thing – [HON. BITI: But zvakaipei kungoti consent yamhamha. Mhamha ndivo vari kuziva kuti kuna mainini Julie, Betty, Chipo kana kuti bamukuru John because kune vamwe ana bamukuru John vanobva vabata vana ipapa.] –
I submit that this one let us leave it as it is and proceed. I think it is very fair and progressive, trust me. We put this as it is – [– [HON. BITI: Saka chibvisai 59 months to 36 months.] – Yes, that we can do so that they can review at 36 months kave kumhanya. Four years dzanyanya.
Amendment to Clause 71 put and agreed to.
Clause 71, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 72;
HON. BITI: Clause 72 is a very good and progressive one. It is long overdue but I suggest that before ‘bedding’, let us put bed/bedding. So if the prisoner can afford a bed, let us put it there.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, the bed is a very dangerous thing to say unconvicted prisoners may take into prison because it depends on the type of bed, I think let us leave it at bedding. This is a very progressive piece of legislation. Can you imagine prisoners now being allowed to bring their own bedding? So we can say food, clothing, bedding, television, or other necessities as the Commissioner-General may from time to time determine. I so submit.
Amendment to Clause 72, put and agreed to.
Clause 72 as amended put and agreed to
Clauses 73 to 86 put and agreed to.
On Clause 87:
HON. BITI: Clause 87 talks about inmates being informed of provisions of the Act and applicable rules. Let us start with the Constitution. Inmates must know the Constitution of Zimbabwe, then the Prison Act and the regulations.
HON. ZIYAMBI: We can say inmates are to be informed of provisions of the Constitution, the Act, and applicable rules. So subject to Section 3, the provisions of the Constitution of this Act, and any rule – so we just add Constitution. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 87, put and agreed to
Clause 87, as amended, put and agreed.
Clause 88 put and agreed to.
On Clause 89:
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, this provision is very important because it speaks to rights of prisoners. So, I suggest that we marry this with the rights of prisoners as codified in Section 50 of the Constitution.
Section 50 speaks to the rights of arrested and detained persons. I do not think that there is any harm in reproducing Section 50 and putting it there with appropriate modifications because it speaks to these rights. We propose and the Hon. Minister has agreed that we add additional rights. One of the rights that the Hon. Minister happily agreed to is the right of prisoners to conjugal rights – [*HON. ZIYAMBI: I never agreed to that. I said we do not have the facilities as yet.] – No, no, we put the right but we then say, ‘subject to’, because remember conditions are different for those in Open Prisons…- [*HON. ZIYAMBI: No, those are sent home, they are allowed to go home, so they have them.] – [*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Just incorporate them!] – Yes, just incorporate. – [*HON. ZIYAMBI: No, it seems as if you are planning your stay in prison.] – No, it is a constitutional issue… - [*HON. ZIYAMBI: It seems you now want to enjoy yourselves in prison and not to be rehabilitated.] – It is a constitutional issue. Sex is not enjoyment, sex is duty – [*HON. ZIYAMBI: I said that we will look into it.] – then there is the issue on the right to exercise … - [*HON. ZIYAMBI: It is there.] – No, it should be incorporated here, hence my proposal to insert Section 50 there.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Let me respond Hon. Chair. Hon. Chair, we do not have to reproduce the Constitution. If you read the Constitution very well when it speaks to rights - it says, when you are interpreting any legislation, regard must be given to the rights in the Constitution.
So given that, when we are interpreting this, we will give regard to those rights. We do not have to say in each and every legislation, we reproduce the Constitution. I submit that it is correct the way it is but in applying this section, the Correctional Officers are enjoined to do that by the Constitution. We are pretty much correct in doing this. Even if you look at the Preamble, it speaks to that; to what the Constitution enjoins us to do, to come up with Prison Correctional Services to give prisoners their rights.
So I think it is correct as it is. Those rights that are already there, it is given. They can demand them. I submit Hon. Chair.
HON. BITI: Yes. I think if the Hon. Minister accepts that the Constitution is incorporated, then Section 81 should read as follows: - ‘subject to the Constitution, this Act and any prescribed rules, Standing Orders or Administration - so that the Prison Officer knows that there is a superior norm and the superior norm is the Constitution of Zimbabwe.’
HON. ZIYAMBI: Yes, I do not mind saying, ‘subject to the Constitution, and this Act… - [HON. BITI: Yes!] – Yes, it is alright but we cannot repeat everything. – [*HON. BITI: But on conjugal rights!] –
Amendment to Clause 89 put and agreed to.
Clause 89 as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 90 to 127, put and agreed.
Clauses 130 to 133, put and agreed.
On Clause 134:
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Solitary confinement is unconstitutional and is inconsistent with international standards. I failed to find anywhere it is contained in this Bill. The Clause 134, I suspect it is contained in the regulations but I suggest that we put a specific provision that bans solitary confinement. Solitary confinement, I talk of some prisoners; death role prisoners, they are only given one hour per day. They are given 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the evening to exercise. The rest of the time, they are on their own. Solitary confinement creates major psychological impact on prisoners. So, I suggest that we use this provision to actually prescribe solitary confinement.
Also, I have a problem in that if you look at Section 134 (1), you are giving too much power to the Officer in Charge. The Officer in Charge is given powers of determining solitary confinement. Why can we not have a small committee; the Officer in Charge or three other Officers because this power is too much and it can be abused? These prisoners are human beings –[HON. ZIYAMBI: Kusecurity sector hakuna zvemacommittee oku exerciser power.] – Why should we secure - what is the necessity of chains because you are solitary confined, leg irons are then put on you? Some of these provisions are cake hang-overs from Ian Douglas Smith of Shurugwi. They are not necessary in the democratic Zimbabwe; they are not necessary – [HON. ZIYAMBI: What are you suggesting then?] – I am suggesting that the powers that are being given to the Officer in Charge as one person is too much. Have a committee that determines whether a solitary confinement is justified. Also, I do not see the wisdom of both solitary confinement and then leg irons. We are inheriting these things which are a carry-over from Ian Douglas Smith of Shurugwi.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Chairman, when we are discussing, we should have progressive discussions and debates. Let me give an example of Chidhumo and Masendeke, those people were dangerous. For us to let them out to the public, they would kill everyone because that is who they were. Leg irons are not for everyone. The one who is in charge of that particular prison is able to determine – I will give an example of Mr. Biti. He could tell that Mr. Biti is so dangerous that if he is left to go out without leg irons, he can be dangerous. It is just an example.
So, for us to remove the leg irons issue is not good. We are not inheriting Ian Douglas Smith culture; this is for security. The Officer in Charge should therefore assess the person to check how dangerous he is. Murderers are very dangerous; they can kill even the Officer in Charge. For example, murderers who were going to court in Masvingo or Bulawayo, I cannot remember but they jumped out of the truck and ran away. I agree with Hon. Biti on certain issues but on the issue of leg irons, I totally disagree. We cannot entertain each other with lies. I support him on certain issues that not everybody should be under leg irons. It is supposed to be on the discretion of the Officer in Charge. Those who are well versed with law, like Hon. Biti, should put it across in a better way but not that everybody should not be put under leg irons. Dangerous people should be under leg irons.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Thank you Hon. Chair. I wanted to add on the point raised by Hon. Biti on solitary confinement and leg irons. I had an opportunity sometime to go to Robin Islands where I learnt about certain people who were in solitary confinement. Some of them ended up being mentally disturbed and others passed on. We should then determine how many hours we need in confinement. Where possible, if there are psychologists, they should assist. For us to say purely solitary - a human being cannot be kept from socialising with others because by nature, we are social. We cannot be totally isolated.
HON. MUNETSI: Thank you very much. I want to talk about the powers of the Officer-In-Charge. At times when there is a committee and matters that are crucial are discussed at committee level, it is risky in terms of security. If information leaks to the inmates, they get information and can easily run away from prisons. It is very risky. So the Officer-In-Charge can decide. Maybe a committee which you are talking about may not be people who are directly involved with the inmates. That can be a good committee.
(v)HON. S. NDLOVU: Good evening to you Mr. Speaker Sir. I also want to contribute in regards to solitary confinement. I went to Robbin Island and I was shown the cell where Nelson Mandela was kept in solitary confinement. Truly speaking, a human being in such a small room for 27 years. We were told that he would wake up in the morning and speak to himself and greet himself – ‘Morning Nelson how are you today’, all by himself for 27 years.
I think in Zimbabwe, truly speaking, for someone who is a danger to society like murderers, we can do that, but any other person does not deserve to be in solitary confinement. Just seeing that room where Mandela was, I had a different picture and said look, in a free Zimbabwe, we do not need that. We can do away with solitary confinement, but I do agree that for those who are a danger to society or a danger to other people, a danger to prison officers, yes, they can be in solitary confinement. Any other person, please let us do away with solitary confinement. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, the first issue is the powers of the Officer-In-Charge. This is standard in the security sector. The Officer-In-Charge gives the orders but he works with his team. So I think this is in order. We cannot change it. We cannot now start restructuring the security sector and dismantling how orders are given. I think within the security structure, the one in charge of that particular section gives orders and that is in order.
Solitary confinement where it is necessary, has to be there. There are certain very dangerous prisoners who if you put them in the open where there are others and there is anything that they can pick; because they know that in any event, they have been sentenced to death, they can use it to kill anyone. It does not change their circumstances. So I think let us leave it as it is. This is not a very bad clause and I move that we accept it as it is. Hon. Chair I thank you.
Clause 134 put and agreed to.
Clauses 135 to 138, put and agreed to.
On Clause 139:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I wanted to say the establishment of the State parallel board is a noble idea. It is actually a progressive thing. My only concern, Hon. Minister is that you see we are establishing it, but I wanted to find out in terms of how it will function, whether it will be effective. My suggestion was to actually come up with a small clause that there be allowed to set sub-committees to operate, that can be delegated to operate in the various provinces because my fear is that if it is so centralised without some level of decentralisation or some sub-committees working in the provinces to speed up the process; that is my only worry about this board. If we can actually come up with a sub-clause, simply to say they can then be allowed to form sub-committees to facilitate the board.
HON. ZIYAMBI: It is already there. If you go to that clause, subclause 5, ‘such other staff as is necessary to enable the body to perform its functions and duties under this Act maybe employed in accordance with this Act or the Public Service Act’. So, it is covered.
HON. MUSHORIWA: But those will be supporting staff. The challenge is that those ones cannot make decisions. Why can we then not allow the board to have sub-committees too because imagine - if you then go through the functions, if you go to 140 and then 141 when you read the functions of the board, you then understand my reasoning to say that it is important to have sub-committees.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Mushoriwa, I am not shooting down your point but I do not understand the reason you would want to add a sub-committee when there is a board that makes all the decisions.
HON. MUSHORIWA: My fear is that the very purpose that we are setting this State Parole Board may be defeated by having a centralised situation where everything is bambazonke to Harare and it may take and inconvenience other centres and other provinces.
*HON. R. R. NYATHI: The idea that is being brought by Hon. Mushoriwa is noble but we have not come across that in any institution. Ministries have to appoint the board but we have not seen that coming. Multinational companies have boards in each and every company but you cannot decentralise boards. That practice will bring a lot of confusion. Thank you.
HON. BITI: We are calling it a board but it is more than a board. It is a Committee that executes. If you look at the functions of the State Parole Board, it goes into prisons, it interviews prisoners, prison officers and determines whether or not they deserve parole. So it is different from your typical executive board that sits in a board room to make an executive decision. It is different from a corporate board. This is an executive board which spends a lot of time in confined prison environments talking to prisoners to determine whether an individual is deserving of parole. For that reason, this thing has to be decentralised. We have got over 20 000 prisoners in Zimbabwe.
Our prisons are heavily congested of convicted prisoners. Never mind prisoners that are on remand, they are over 100, 20 and 30 people who are currently on death row right now as I am talking to you. The majority of them have been on death row for more than four years. Zimbabwe last executed a death row prisoner in 1995. We have not executed at all and that means all these prisoners are eligible for parole. The board we are talking about, even though we are calling it a board, it is actually an Executive Board. This is a full-time function because they will be going to Khami, Chikurubi, Masvingo and they go to every province where there is a major prison.
We have to decentralise the State Parole Board. We have to have provincial State Parole Boards because the function is of an executive nature and not of a policy nature. I also urge that we need to revisit the composition of the board. In some countries, they put retired magistrates or retired judges. The reason is very simple because when you are sitting as a parole officer, you are making a judgement about the suitability of that person to be allowed back into society before he/she has served prison terms.
There is a quasi-judicial function and I think that we need to revisit the composition and we need to decentralise the State Parole Board because it is an executive board and not a policy board. It does not sit in the office because it spends it’s time in prisons interviewing prisoners and interviewing prison officers saying, is this candidate suitable, yes/no? What has been his/her record? Has he ever beaten a prison officer, scold prison officers, does he/she do her duties well et cetera? It is an executive function. I thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: I want to agree with Hon. Biti. The functions that we are talking about are so important and need serious concentration. If we are doing this in good spirit, then it means the board must be effective. The only way it can be effective is if it can carry out its duties diligently and thoroughly and this can only be done at a local level so that the Committee at that particular local level, will recommend to the board. I think that will make a lot of sense considering that even as we speak, we have got several prisoners who deserve their cases to be heard by the Parole Board.
As a result, I think we must be able to separate from the policy board that we talk about who will only make decisions on policy issues. Here is a board that is required to act on facts, and for it to be able to interact with prisoners, it cannot be that one board that can be able to deal with the number of prisoners that we have in this country. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I submit that this Clause is okay as it is and urge Hon. Members to pass it as it is. I thank you.
HON. MATARANYIKA: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. My concern is on Clause 139 (2) (c), where the number of members of the board are said to be not more than five. I am thinking that we need to be specific and clearly state the number of members. Apart from the Chairman and the two Vice Chairman, it is saying that such number of members should be not more than five persons, and I am saying there is need for a definitive number so that it is not abused for one reason or another. Let us be definitive in our approach. If the total number of members should be five, let us say five and if it should be seven, let us say seven rather than just saying not more than five. The law should be specific. Thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Minister, I think you can understand this. You cannot have a board with five people and you expect that board to be effective to be able to run around all the prisons that are scattered across our ten provinces in this country. My suggestion is that this is a noble initiative and it is a good direction but we cannot start something and we half-bake it. Let us try to come up with a system that is functional. This is the reason why I was saying it is important to have the five members on the board but also allow to have provincial committees that then feed in into the work of this board. The amendment should be very simple in my view because if we leave it like this, this State Parole Board will not do anything. This is the reason why if you check, not only does it cover 139 but goes on to 149. It is a huge chunk and a very important board. Let us not do a half-baked product. Let us just finish it to its logical conclusion.
HON. BITI: The Minister knows the high number of convicted prisoners in the country. There is no prison in Zimbabwe that is not congested. That is why even in the context of a constrained budget, the Minister himself has made a proposal to the Treasury for the construction of more prisons because there is too much demand for such services. The Parole Board is going to be a busy board, seven people are not enough. Let us find a mechanism of decentralizing this board. We can do it through the Act. We can have the board operating with its seven people and then say the function of the board can be done by members of staff who go and interview – the board will then sit and hear this. To say five or seven people can serve the whole country, we will not be doing any justice to this. We are killing a noble idea by operationally decapitating its capacity to work because we are understaffing the same. So we either leave the board as it is and make it a policy board and then have officers who go into prisons - these would include psychologists, criminologists and so on. They will go into the prisons and make recommendations to the board and then to the Minister. This is what happens in other countries and it can work, confining the function to only seven people is not ideal. Let us make this effective by making sure that it is decentralized at board or operational level. We cannot have a still birth by things that we all know that in Zimbabwe will not work.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon. Biti, I do not know whether you have seen the last bullet number 5 which is saying such other staff as…
HON. BITI: I have seen it Hon. Chair. The functions of the State Parole Board are in the board and not in the staff. It does not matter – we can have two million members of staff. If we have got seven people and you are trying to make them do the work of the whole Zimbabwe, it will not work. This is why I said we can either tweak this Bill by saying the board members can remain seven, then they operate at almost a policy level but the State Parole Board then works through the members of staff. As it is, the work can only be done by those seven people. If we allow delegation of staff, then it makes sense.
*HON. MADZIMURE: We cannot pass a half-baked Act like what the Minister is saying. It has taken so many years to amend this Act. These seven people are the ones who are supposed to be doing the actual work but their ratio to the number of prisoners who deserve to have their cases heard is not corresponding. Some prisoners complete their terms without having the opportunity to go on the board. For us to expect the prisoners to benefit from this, it is not possible in the form in which we have the parole board – the number and its composition and the fact that it is at that top level and they are expected to go down there and do the interviews and do the rest. The ratio does not work and it will not benefit the intended people.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: There are prison officers who take care of prisoners and these can recommend to the board. It is not the board that moves around the country but the Officer in Charge of that prison can recommend to the board.
When Andrew Ndlovu was in prison, his brother passed away and we went to the people in charge and asked him to be freed for his brother’s funeral. We did not ask the board. Yes, there are a lot of prisoners but to increase the number of people who sit on the board is wasting resources…
HON. MATARANYIKA: How many Chairpersons are appointed because here it says deputy chairpersons without saying the number?
HON. BITI: Who does the work, the board or its staff?
HON. ZIYAMBI: Both.
HON. BITI: If it is both, then let us make it clear in the Act. The work can be done and the board can send members of staff. What Hon. Chinotimba is saying is not parole - to allow a prisoner to go and attend a funeral is not parole. Parole is when a prisoner committed murder and we want to release him – this is a specialized function. The key question is, are you a danger to the society? The Commissioner of prisoners cannot do that. It is now a specialized board that has been trained to say if we put this person on parole, is he not a danger to the society. Officer in Charge cannot do that. Officer in Charge was trained to take care of a person not discharge a person…
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: Hon. Biti!
HON. BITI: Mhaaa.
HON. MUKARATIGWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think we are seized with an issue which is both of a technical nature, operational as it may be and perhaps a policy issue. As far as operations of the board is concerned, especially the parole board, we also need to consider what parole is all about. In terms of the technical aspect of it, is it resident in the board? I think in simpler terms, I am a layman, we need to look at it as a day to day thing. In organizational structures, it is more to do with appraisals and it is not an overnight wonder. What I am saying is what I hear from Hon. Biti, Mr. Chairman, which speaks to efficiency or inefficiency or a backlog that has been created over time. The question is, that is a seasonal aspect that we want to deal with or want to see whether the scenario obtaining here can speak to clearing of such backlogs and in terms of implementation, we strengthen it to ensure that there is efficiency within a system.
When we talk of appraisals within an organization, it takes everyone from lower levels to the highest level. So, it is not an overnight wonder. Officers are involved on a day to day basis. They come up with periodical reports which will feed in this case, in a specific board that deals with parole. Centralizing it may be, there should not be a challenge. That is my take. We need to refrain from causing that board to micro-manage. There is a danger here. I submit.
HON. BITI: We have given parole powers to the State Parole Board. We have made it a micromanager dealing with micro issues. That is what we have done. There has to be devolution either in terms of increasing the number of the board members or devolution in terms of allowing people who to do the work. First, it could be the staff of this creature that we are creating or allowing the prison officer to have a definitive buy-in into the process. At the present moment, the function is monopolized with the board but we have monopolized a function that by its nature, it is has to be democratic by reason of the number of prisons and the number of prisoners we have. It is a drafting issue and a technical issue. That is where we are hammering. I have no problem with what the esteemed Member was saying. I agree with him but that is not what the law is saying. The law has monopolized parole functions with the board. Let us democratize it by these various options I am proffering; allow staff to do it, incorporate what prison officers do on a regular basis. Prison officer must carry out review daily, whether a prisoner can be released or not. At present moment, that Act is not providing a nexus between the exclusive functions of the State Parole Board which have been monopolized with the board and what we all know must be democratized.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress and seek leave to sit again. I thank you.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Thursday, 18 May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Seventeen Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: Hon. Speaker, we do not have a link for today’s deliberations. May I proceed with using the internal system?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Just wait for a moment. Hon. Mayihlome, I am being advised that it was sent on your emails in the morning. May you ask for a gadget from other Hon. Members.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE FOR RESTORATION OF THE THIRD REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE DELEGATION TO THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICES ON COUNTER TERRORISM
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: I seek leave of the House that the motion on the Third Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on the Delegation to the United Nations Offices on Counter Terrorism High Level Parliamentary Committee on Parliamentary Engagement in Partnership with the African Parliamentary Union and the Shura Council of the State of Qatar which was headlined ‘Understanding the Terrorist Threat in Africa, new Challenges and Necessary Measures’, held at Classical Hotel in Doha from 30-31 March 2022 which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order Number 77.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE THIRD REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON THE DELEGATION TO THE UNITED NATIONS OFFICES ON COUNTER TERRORISM
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: I move that the debate on the motion on the Third Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on the Delegation to the United Nations Offices on Counter Terrorism High Level Parliamentary Committee on Parliamentary Engagement in Partnership with the African Parliamentary Union and the Shura Council of the State of Qatar which was headlined ‘Understanding the Terrorist Threat in Africa, new Challenges and Necessary Measures’, held at Classical Hotel in Doha from 30-31 March 2022 which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
LEAVE TO MOVE RESTORATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON SECURITY OF MINERALS, ILLICIT TRADING IN MINERALS AND MINERAL LEAKAGES
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD. MAYIHLOME): Madam Speaker, I seek leave of the House that the debate on the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on Security of Minerals, Illicit Trading in Minerals and Mineral Leakages which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order Number 77.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
RESTORATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE, HOME AFFAIRS AND SECURITY SERVICES ON SECURITY OF MINERALS, ILLICIT TRADING IN MINERALS AND MINERAL LEAKAGES
HON. BRIG. GEN. (RTD.) MAYIHLOME: I move that the debate on the motion on the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services on Security of Minerals, Illicit Trading in Minerals and Mineral Leakages which was superseded by the end of the Fourth Session of the Ninth Parliament be restored on the Order Paper in terms of Standing Order Number 77.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. TEKESHE: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of national interest with regards to how farmers are being paid after delivering their merchandise. They are being paid in RTGs at bank rate ZWL1200 per USD1 yet there is a black-market rate of ZWL 3 000 and something per USD1. This makes it difficult for farmers to continue with the farming business as they are running a loss. It now seems like the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe is robbing farmers. Maybe there should be a bank where they are paid according to the situation on the ground.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Member. It is true that agriculture is the backbone of the country. I urge you to ask the responsible Minister tomorrow during question time.
I am also being advised that the Deputy Minister will be bringing in a Ministerial Statement which has to do with your concern. May you take that opportunity to put in this farmers’ concern.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker Ma’am, I stand on this pedestal and platform in response to the advice from the Hon. Speaker to do my investigation as to who the compounds in the farming areas belong to, both in A2 and resettlement areas. Compounds are dwellings or houses of former farm workers. I have done that research and the compounds as it stands, are adjudicated and played oversight by the Lands Act and the Ministry of Lands. Given that scenario, I am now going to repeat my prayer. It was to get the Hon. Minister of Lands to come into this House in tandem with the Constitution which is sui generis in Section 72 Subsection 7 (c) which states that the people of Zimbabwe should be enabled to assert their right to learn. I was hoping the compounds and the dwellings for former farm workers, farm workers and indeed artisanal miners and vendors can be a panacea to alleviate the plight of the masses in terms of housing infrastructure development reduction in terms of the backlog.
My prayer would be to have the Hon. Minister of Agriculture to come into this House and give a Ministerial Statement as to how those compounds can indeed be used to reduce the housing backlog as opposed to the wanton evictions that are currently happening that are seeing rural to urban migration where in the urban sector, there is a lacuna; there is no space. People are staying like mice and in particular N23A – three families of ten each are in a three roomed house. I would want the Hon. Minister to come and tell us how he can get the compounds to alleviate the plight of the suffering masses in terms of housing delivery because where there is no housing, there is rampant child abuse, girl child marriages and there is no conjugal rights, copulation and procreation. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna, you raised such a pertinent point of national interest. The responsible Minister will be advised to come to the House with a Ministerial Statement regarding the issue. Thank you.
HON. C. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker and good afternoon.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon.
HON. C. MOYO: My point of national interest hovers around the lithium reserves which we have in this country. We are ranked number 1 in Africa and in the whole world we are ranked the sixth. It is very important Madam Speaker to mention that. Maybe what stresses me is, I was in Binga on Saturday and there is virtually no road from Bulawayo to Binga. I do not want to talk about the tired debate of Bulawayo-Nkayi Road. Let me talk about the national crisis in terms of electricity. Let me talk about the 78% population which are suffering while we have got all these lithium reserves Madam Speaker. My request would be if the Hon. Minister of Mines and Mining Development, I do not know whether they are still developing our mining industry, to bring a Ministerial Statement detailing the status quo of our lithium reserves, obviously that includes issues to do with beneficiation and value addition according to paragraph 396 of our National Development Strategy 1.
Obviously, to mention also the current benefits that we are getting from the lithium reserves as well as the future benefits that can be obtained from the lithium. Surely, Madam Speaker, if the Hon. Minister can bring the Ministerial Statement, we would be able to avoid maybe lithium mafias. You know recently, we were having gold mafias. We are also trying to avoid to have lithium mafias sprouting up in our country. I so move Madam Speaker. Thank you very much.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much Hon. Moyo. I advise you to put that in writing so that the Minister will make some investigations and bring the answer on a Wednesday to this House. Thank you.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My point of national interest hovers on our service providers in the health institutions, those that were called frontline workers during COVID-19. Every leader who stands up talks about how well as a country we fought COVID-19. Right now, we are here because we think we have won the fight. Madam speaker, these frontline workers, the nurses especially, have grievances emanating from that.
Firstly, we know that our country was giving some sort of allowances to everyone who fell sick of COVID-19. I fell sick and got that allowance but up to now, there are some nurses and doctors and some frontline workers who have not gotten their allowances, despite the fact that they were the ones who were handling these patients every day. We were afraid as a people to handle our own people when they fell sick but we made sure that they got to those isolation centres but up to now, those people have not gotten their allowances.
Secondly, Madam Speaker, there is no compensation whatsoever in our country for these brave women and men who stood during these hard times. Even those that died doing their work in these hospitals, their families are in poverty. Nothing was done to compensate for the brevity of their lives.
Thirdly, Madam Speaker, there was a vaccination programme that said they should go for two weeks and were promised some compensation. Up to now, some of them have not gotten their allowances. My prayer to you Madam Speaker is to have the Minister of Health to bring to this House, statistics on how many nurses and doctors have received their allowances both for COVID-19 illness and vaccination programme. Also, to tell this House what plans they have as a Ministry to make sure that they compensate the brave women and men that we have in our country.
We know that there is an exodus – a lot of nurses and doctors are leaving the country but we have got those that have said they do not want to leave; they want to serve our country yet they have not been recognized up until now. That is my prayer Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Maphosa for raising such an important point of national interest. I advise you to put that in writing so that the Hon. Minister will make some investigations and come to this House with some answers. Thank you.
HON. BITI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise on a matter of national importance. You know that in terms of Section 119 (2) of the Constitution, Parliament has got the power of oversight function over every person, institution, every Government agency or Ministry in this country. Last week, you as the Speaker, recognized after Members had raised issues around corruption and illicit financial flows, particularly pertaining to what is now known colloquially as the gold mafia. You directed that the matter be dealt with the by the relevant Portfolio Committee, namely the Public Accounts Committee as well as the Budget Committee. These two Committees have met and made resolutions in respect of those persons that they actually wish to interview. This is consistent with their constitutional mandate.
Madam Speaker, we saw a notice yesterday that purported to be coming from the Speaker saying that those investigations by the relevant Portfolio Committees are being stopped because the matter is subjudice. The matter is before the courts but as a matter of fact, there is no matter that is pending before the courts.
Secondly, Madam Speaker, do you have powers of reversing decisions made in this august House in plenary? Perhaps Madam Speaker, can you clarify whether that statement that purports to be coming from the Speaker is in fact coming from the Speaker and can you confirm that you are going to protect the Constitution because Section 119 (1) says, the key function of Parliament is to protect the Constitution. You are going to protect the Constitution and allow the respective Committees of Parliament to do their work because our people are suffering when some elite are stealing from this country. I thank you very much Madam Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, thank you for your point of national interest but I will advise you to wait for the Speaker because I am not the one who did the ruling before, so I cannot rule on that one.
HON. HWENDE: I have a point of order and there are two issues. The first issue which you can rule is whether as a Speaker you have got the power to change a resolution that has been made in a plenary by Parliament. That, you can rule.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That, I cannot rule.
HON. HWENDE: My second point of order is that this is a serious issue. We have seen that the Clerk, Mr. Chokuda, someone who is facing corruption charges after the laptop issue is still part of your procession and is the one who is taking lead to advise you on an issue of such importance that involves corruption that has never been witnessed in this country. We want an explanation also on why Mr. Chokuda is still coming to Parliament because he is bringing this institution of Parliament into serious disrepute. You cannot face serious charges of wanting to buy a laptop for US$9 000 and still come to Parliament and advise our Speaker. Those two matters Madam Speaker, I am sure you are capable of ruling so that we can proceed.
The other one, we will wait for the Speaker because we had come here today prepared for him but we can wait for him but on those two, please can you help us with a ruling.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Hwende, I think on that one you are a bit out of order – [HON. HWENDE: On which one?] – Both, I told you that I am not able to rule on the second issue. On Mr. Chokuda’s issue, I am sure you know that he was taken by ZACC and ZACC is still doing some investigations – [HON. HWENDE: He has gone to court.] – So, if it is before the courts, we cannot talk about it in this House. You know very well that we cannot talk about it in this House.
HON. HWENDE: This matter Madam Speaker, has passed the ZACC stage. Mr. Chokuda appeared in court and he was given bail. If he appeared in court and the case is still before the courts, we cannot discuss about it in this House please – [HON. HWENDE: Why is he coming to work interacting with the same worker that he is supposed to be investigated for. He is interfering with investigations and today he is helping you to stop gold mafia investigation.] – No, Hon. Hwende, please take your seat. I will not allow you to do that, please take your seat – [HON. HWENDE: What are you not going to allow? The issue is very simple Madam Speaker. I have two issues that I have requested you to make a ruling on. As Parliament, we have a right not to be given advice by someone who is facing serious corruption charges and these charges happened here in Parliament. The same workers that were procuring the laptops are still here. Why is he coming to work facing corruption charges?
HON. T. MLISWA: My point of order is that we will waste a lot of time here Hon. Members. I think Madam Speaker, with all senses together has clearly said she cannot respond to what the Speaker said, especially him being the head of Parliament and he must respond. We must respect that.
Secondly on the Clerk’s issue, we did an enquiry. Why is the report not being tabled in Parliament on the recommendations? We must be very clear now that it is ZACC that determines whether he is given bail or not and Parliament does not control the processes of the court. We tabled a report. You must be asking where the report is. The Chairman must table the report, we debate and there are recommendations. He sits in the Committee of Public Accounts. Why has the Chairman not tabled the report then we can debate it? It has recommendations. Let us follow procedure and not just be emotional.
We are waiting for the report to be tabled in Parliament so that everybody can contribute but if the report is not there, let us not get excited. The Public Accounts Committee must table the report so that it is debated and there are recommendations we came up with. You are seasoned politicians, do not behave like kindergarten politicians. Madam Speaker is correct there. The Chairman is going to table the report Hon. Hwende. When is it going to be tabled? I asked in the meeting last week that where is the report so that it is tabled in Parliament and we will listen to the recommendations. Those are the procedures and processes of Parliament. This is not a CCC Parliament, this is a Parliament for the nation which is based on records and facts. Pedzisai ma primary elections enyu, hatitomboziva kuti ari kucontester ndiani – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. BITI: Zvema primary edu zvapinda papi?]
*HON. MAMOMBE: On a point of order! My point of order emanates from the fact that what we would have agreed in this august House should not be changed outside this House. I am saying that and I want to raise some of the issues. I sit in the Committee of Higher and Tertiary Education. We have petitions which came to this august House regarding the increments of fees and the salaries of lecturers at universities which were sent to the respective Committee. However, when these issues are brought to the Portfolio Committee, you would find that we receive letters instructing us to stop investigations; which is exactly the same scenario as what happened to the Public Accounts Committee. I also think that this issue is happening across many Portfolio Committees.
So, we need clarification and guidance concerning these matters because this is what Hon. Hwende is asking about that, why are such issues that would have been agreed in this House changed by the Clerk of Parliament?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mamombe. When you receive such letters, as a Committee, seek from the relevant authority why you are being stopped to investigate.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. |R. R. NYATHI: I move that Orders Number 1 to 13 on today’s Order Paper, be stood over until Order of the Day Number 14 has been disposed of.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourteenth order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I rise to provide a response to the State of the Nation Address as was presented by His Excellency…
HON. MUSHORIWA: On a point of order! The Hon. Minister is technically out of order because of our thinking and he is aware; there are Bills that are before this august House. The Hon. Minister has the Pensions and Insurance Bills that we have actually come to debate and that is what we expect this House to be doing. The Minister of Justice, Legal, and Parliamentary Affairs also has got the Electoral Amendment Bill and the Prisons Bills. The Minister of Labour and Social Welfare is also here, so, we cannot lose that opportunity.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mushoriwa, may you take your seat! – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] Order, order!
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Allow me to respond to the issues that were raised by Members of this august House on the SONA debate. I will begin by raising encouraging comments from Hon. Members in general. Let me single out Hon. Togarepi, Hon. Zhou, and Hon. T. Moyo for recognising the important job being undertaken by the Government under the leadership of His Excellency, the President, Dr. E.D Mnangagwa. They explicitly recognised work and reform measures underway in almost all the sectors of the economy, from infrastructural development, agriculture revitalisation, expansion of mining activities as well as price and exchange rate stabilisation efforts which have all resulted in positive socio-economic development.
Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to update the House that under the Roads Development Programme, the Harare-Masvingo-Beitbridge Road Development Project, fully funded by Government, is set to be completed this year 2023. As of 11 May 2023, 427 km had been opened to traffic with a target to complete the remaining 153 km by the end of 2023.
Through the Department of Roads, Government has also completed restoration works on Cyclone Idai damaged roads. With rehabilitation of the Norton Road, Galloway Road, Shukrun Road, Gudza-Tumba Way in Chitungwiza, Nights Bridge, and Glencary Roads in Harare. Subgrade construction of Nyakasikana-Karanda Road in Mt. Darwin construction and completion of Rwenya River Bridge construction and some approaches among others. On ports of entry phases 1 and 2 of the Beitbridge Boarder Post modernisation project were completed in 2022 and work has now shifted to phase 3.
Domestic, electricity generation has improved significantly following the completion and synchronisation of Hwange Unit 7 which is now feeding 300 megawatts of electricity to the national grid.
HON. BITI: On a point of order! The right of Government or Ministers to reply to a State of Nation Address only comes after the mover of the motion has wound up. The debate is yet to be concluded; ordinary Hon. Members are still debating. The right of the Government to respond only comes when it has been wound-up and ministers are now responding to those issues that would have been raised pertaining to their ministries. Ministers cannot intervene when the report is still lis pendens, that is, is still being debated.
So Hon. Mushoriwa was correct first time around to say the Hon. Minister is out of order. He is truly and genuinely out of order. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members! Hon. Members, may we have order in the House! The Hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Development is correct. – [HON. BITI: He is out of order!] – No, he is not out of order. Please, may you proceed Hon. Deputy Minister. – [HON. BITI: Saka kana akapedza tobva tasimuka tobvunza futi?] – No, you do not have to do it again. – [HON. BITI: But the motion is still alive!] – The motion was debated – [HON. BITI: The motion is still open for debate!] – It is not supposed to be closed. The ministers are supposed to respond before it is closed Hon. Biti – [HON. BITI: Ayehwa, munhu anoti ndave kufa kuma minister manje naPresident because iye akataura, ndave kutosimuka futi kuti ndipindure again zvichingodaro zvichingodaro, that is not procedure.] – Hon. Biti, I do not think that you must continue wasting our time. Hon. Deputy Minister, please may you proceed. – [HON. BITI: Murume haafanire kungopinda paasingafanirwe kupinda!] – No, no Hon. Biti!
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Members, I think we are wasting time. The debate was there for everybody to debate and then after all contributions … - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – No, no Shamwari, I will not sit. – [HON. CHIDAKWA: Inaudible interjections.] – Unonetsa iwewe, wanga uri kwaMwonzora, wayenda kuCCC and urikuvhetwa! Wanga urikwa Mwonzora, wavekuvhetwa manje! Unehasha dzako iwewe! Wanga urikwa Mwonzora wave kuCCC - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Chimbodhila nenyaya yako! Ndati, wanga urikwa Mwonzora, kuCCC ndiko kwauri kuvhetwa, chimbovhetwa and hausi kupinda! Kubva kwaMwonzora kuenda kuCCC, urikuda zveku CCC wabva kwaMwonzora! Uri confused iwewe, you are confused. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, please may you take your seat? – [HON. T. MLISWA: Bheji bheji hausi kupinda iwewe!] – Hon. Mliswa, please may we have order! - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Mliswa! Hon. Deputy Minister, please may you proceed? Hon. Members, kana zvisina kufamba kuma nominations musapedzere shungu muno mazvinzwaka? Eheee, munozopindawo next time iyo. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Mliswa! Hon. Mliswa, please may we have order in the House.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHIDUWA): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am let me continue.
Let me transition to the issue that was raised by Hon. Mliswa where he expressed his desire for the State of the Nation Address (SONA) Speech to update the nation on the state of Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in the country. The SONA by His Excellency emphasised on what Government was doing towards the development of public infrastructure in the country, critical in enhancing public service delivery as well as attracting FDI. I am very sure that the Hon. Member understands that efficient infrastructure is an important variable in attracting FDI as it raises productivity and reduces the cost of doing business.
With respect to Foreign Direct Investment, the administration is doing relatively well in attracting FDI as evidenced by the increase in the number and value of private sector partnering Government in undertaking infrastructure projects, including agriculture mechanisation and irrigation development, housing, roads, and ports construction.
I want to believe that the Hon. Member has probably benefited from the Agriculture Mechanisation Programme introduced by the State and Republic; if he has not, he can also approach the relevant departments to get assistance. We are also seeing the impact of FDI in mining, manufacturing, tourism, construction and other sectors towards recapitalisation and retooling which now averages more than USD300million per year.
I take note of the Hon. Member’s concern regarding the conversion of inputs borrowed in local currency to United States Dollars. I want to believe that this is a contractual issue between individuals and financial institutions implementing the programmes. Moreso, given the multi-currency system we are operating under, we said this would remain in place until 2025; which is the end period of NDS1.
Let me transition to the issue that was raised by Hon. Biti where he raised the issue regarding depreciation of the local currency on the parallel market. Madam Speaker Ma’am, the stability of the domestic currency has been central to our interventions and Government has just introduced additional measures to address the depreciation of the local currency that has resulted in the increase in the price of goods and services.
The recent measure that is an addition to the cocktail of measures that we already have was announced by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development on 11th May, 2023. We introduced additional measures as follows: -
- 100% retention of domestic foreign currency earnings
from domestic sales in foreign currency;
- the adoption of all external loans held by the central bank
by Treasury;
- fine tuning the Foreign Exchange auction system;
- lifting of all restrictions on importation of basic goods;
- supportive interest rate environment and the promotion of the use of the domestic currency by Government agencies.
The above measures complement initiatives under implementation such as the enforcement of value for money which seeks to re-establish macro-economic stability.
We have also reactivated the liquidity Management Committee comprised of officials from the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank to ensure liquidity in the economy is within the desired levels which are not inflationary. Government and the Central Bank will continue to monitor developments and refine policies to ensure stability of inflation and exchange rate. Suffice to say that inflation control is a process not an event, hence it may take time to reach the ultimate stability we all want.
Let me transition to the submission by Hon. Chikwinya and Hon. Watson who expressed concern over the late disbursement of BEAM funds…
HON. BITI: On a point of order Hon. Speaker. Madam Speaker, this is a ministerial statement and not a response to the Presidential Speech. The remarks attributed to Hon. Watson and the remarks I made on inflation had nothing to do with SONA. I have never debated SONA. It is after SONA and it is outside SONA. So, this man is offside and he should be thrown out of this august House. He is sneaking through the backdoor a ministerial state of the economy address in a SONA, he cannot do that. He cannot reprobate and approbate. He cannot have his cake and eat it. You are protecting someone who is totally out of order and we are wasting time. There is still the Minister of Justice, who wants to move Bills. We have all come to do Bills and so he is wasting our time. Please, throw him out. Thank you.
The Hon. Deputy Minister having approached the Chair
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Hon. Deputy Minister is responding to SONA. Please may we allow him to finish? May we have order in the House?
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. It is not correct for you to allow him to continue when he is misrepresenting the facts. Hon. Biti never debated SONA, how can you then say he must continue? Are we going back to the Hansard to find out? He did not debate it.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, please may you finish and may we have order in the House.
HON. CHIDUWA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let me transition to the last issue which was raised by Hon. Chikwinya and Hon. Watson over the late disbursement of BEAM. Provision of decent inclusive and sustainable social protection services remains key for the Government in order to improve access to basic social services by vulnerable groups. Disbursements have also been affected by cashflow challenges that have impacted on timeous payment of BEAM funds resulting in arrears.
However, Treasury and the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare are now working on a framework that will address outstanding payments as well as improvements in disbursements going forward. So, these are the issues that I wanted to respond on as raised in the SONA. With regards to the Ministerial Statement, I will wait for a chance to present it. Thank you.
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Speaker Ma’am, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. R. R. NYATHI: Hon. Speaker Ma’am, I move that Orders of the Day, Nos. 1 to 4 be stood over until Order of the Day, No. 5 has been disposed of.
HON. TEKESHE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
CRIMINAL LAW (CODIFICATION AND REFORM) AMENDMENT BILL (H. B. 15, 2022)
Fifth Order read: Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Amendment Bill, [H. B. 15, 2022].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. It is my duty to bring before you this Bill to amend the Criminal Law Code in certain important respects. I speak mainly to the new crime proposed to be created of and I quote ‘willful injuring the sovereignty or national interest of Zimbabwe’, set forth in Clause 2 of the Bill and mentioned other amendments in passing. The proposed new Section 22 (a) is a measure of national protection to criminalise behaviour on the part of our citizens and other residents that would, in more developed countries, be rightly regarded as unpatriotic and even treasonous.
The offence is divided in two parts and the first part deals with misconduct of a very grave nature indeed, and consists of two separate sub-offences partly referred elsewhere in the Code. The first sub-offence is treason, contrary to Section 20 of the Code in the shape of partaking in any meeting with the object of inviting military or armed intervention in Zimbabwe by a foreign Government or any of its agents, proxies or entities.
The second is partaking many meetings with the objectives, subverting, upsetting, overthrowing or overturning the constitutional Government of Zimbabwe in contravention of Section 22 of the Code.
Madam Speaker, I have had people say, why is there a need to legislate for these crimes if they are already mentioned in the Code. In reply Madam Speaker, let me point out to them that good public policy may sometimes require us to identify particular behaviours that from our experience need to be singled out for special mention because the danger of their occurrence is very real. There is nothing wrong in practice or in principle with framing an indictment in which the same Criminal Act is referenced generically and specifically in different parts of the Code. So, for instance, a person who meets an agent of a foreign country in order to influence that country, to attack us with its army will be charged with violation of Section 20 as read with Section 22 (a) of the Code.
The second part of Section 22 (a) criminalizes encouraging sanctions or trade boycotts against our country for which the penalty is less severe than for the sub-offences in the earlier part. Even so, it is hoped that the sanctions for it are deterrent enough to discourage the kind of behaviour it describes.
Let me now address Madam Speaker, the general purpose and motivation behind this measure. Is it not clear to us as Africans Madam Speaker, what we are dealing with here, the story of interference by outsiders in our continent, let alone our country is a very sorry one indeed. We are weak politically, therefore we are weak economically. History Madam Speaker, is our witness that our political fragmentation, our weak and divided allegiances to our own countries, people, and to our continent makes us an easy prey for colonial and neo-colonial exploitation. We have still not recovered from that legacy today for all our talk of political independence. Because the neo-colonial powers use smarter and friendly guises to advance their interest at the expense of our own in some ways, we make that legacy worse because of our blindness to their tricks. Applying the old imperialists principle of ‘divide and rule’, they looked to see where they can drive wages between us. The easier for them to interfere in our politics and plunder our resources, they become strong and wealthy at the expense of our weakness and of our wealth of human and material endowments, then they used that wealth and power to subvert us even more. The means used by then nowadays are more subversive than in colonial times but even in this country, we have seen punitive expeditions being send to bring the so-called rebellious subject people into line. Believe me, Madam Speaker, we pay very dearly for our weaknesses, if we are not vigilant, informed and capable of defending the interest that ought to be common to us as a people. We are not perfect by any means; I do not wish to discourage everyone, inside or outside our country who in good faith and hopefully in a constructive spirit, criticizes us where we fall short, whether in the sphere of human rights or otherwise. We question the moral standing of certain State actors and their agents who, while pleading respect of human rights as an excuse to interfere in our internal affairs, would view it as an act of hostility by us or any one of our fellow countries in the developing world if we were to urge sanctions against them or finance political initiative by political opponents of their governments in power or help litigants to pass criminal or civil suits against their governments in their own or in foreign or international courts over matters that are of domestic concern to them only and have nothing to do with interstate relations.
Madam Speaker, will they not accuse us of interference in their own internal affairs; of course, they would and they would not hesitate to punish us in some way for doing so. Hon. Speaker and Hon. Members, let us not be naive, this is not a world where the theoretical equality of sovereign states has become a reality. In fact, far from it, neither are we powerless to do something about protecting our own interest and national sovereignty. We did not become political independent to tolerate what would, in more developed countries, be rightly regarded as treasonous and unpatriotic behaviour. Who is our patron or our keeper now that we are free? We recognize as higher than ourselves only God and those institutions such as the African Union and the United Nations to which we are freely and collectively agreed to seed some of our sovereignty as a people. It is not for any individual or some groups of individuals among us to choose for us some country or another that they think should be an arbiter of what is right or wrong as if that country is flawless and can give us instructions on these matters.
To reiterate Madam Speaker, our constitutional order affords many parts for aggrieved citizens to vend their grievances against the State. This is a measure to encourage respect for our Constitution by our citizens and everyone who lawfully choose to live amongst us. I will now briefly refer to the other amendments to the Criminal Law Code sought to be made by this Bill.
Madam Speaker, the amendment of Section 65 of the Code seeks to enact harsher penalties for the crime of rape in response to an epidemic of rape in our country and in the region. Other countries in the SADC facing a similar problem have responded by imposing mandatory imprisonment. We propose to follow their lead. Where rape is committed in aggravating circumstances, the new penalty is imprisonment for life or imprisonment for at least 15 years. Where it is shown that the crime was committed without aggravating circumstances, the penalty is a period of not less than five years. I must, in this connection, single out for special press the role of women’s party list delegation in the National Assembly in bringing the problem of violence against women to the forefront of our national policy making. The outstanding policy contribution demonstrates the wisdom of securing their constitutionally guaranteed presence in Parliament.
Madam Speaker, the rights, interests and concerns of one half of our population surely cannot be irrelevant or ignored by the other half. The amendment of Section 155 of the Code excludes industrial herb from the scope of what is defined as dangerous as defined by the Criminal Law Code. Industrial herb, Madam Speaker, will be excluded form the scope. This measure is needed to strengthen the implementation of Statutory Instrument 62 of 2018 entitled ‘dangerous drugs, production of cannabis for medicinal use, medicinal and scientific use, regulations which made it legal to farm industrial herb and export it’. It was still however a crime to be in possession of it because of the broad definition of cannabis, hence this amendment.
Finally, Madam Speaker, the Bill seeks to amend Section 174 of the Code relating to the crime of criminal abuse of office. In its present expression, Section 174(1) is too broad in that public officers were exposed to prosecution for honest mistakes made during the course of their duties. The amendment now requires proof of the additional element of knowledge of acting abusively on the part of the public official in question. Madam Speaker, with leave of the House, I now move that the Bill be read a second time. I thank you.
Madam Speaker, I am advised the Committee is not ready so I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Twenty-Nine Minutes to Four o’clock p.m.
“ PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
The Senate met at Half-past Two O’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
VISITORS IN THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Good afternoon Hon. Senators. I have two announcements. First, I would like to acknowledge the presence of Hon. Members from the Parliament of Zambia in the Senate Gallery led by Hon. Remember C. Mutale. You are most welcome Hon. Members. [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
APPOINTMENT TO THEMATIC COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The second announcement, I would like to inform the Senate that Hon. G. Gijima has been nominated to serve in the Thematic Committees on Peace and Security and HIV and AIDS.
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Let me remind Hon. Senators to put your cellphones on silent, or better switch them off.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Thank you Mr. President. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 3 be stood over, until the rest of the Orders of the Day, have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Sustainable Healthcare System in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GIJIMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Sustainable Management of Waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. GUMPO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on Measures to Combat Human Trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. T. MOYO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MATHUTHU: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NDIWENI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 17th May, 2023.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MATHUTHU, seconded by HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE, the Senate adjourned at Nineteen Minutes to Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 11th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of national interest borders on what I have already raised here in the House. If it pleases you to request the Hon. Ministers as you have already ruled Mr. Speaker Sir, that they come to this House and actually deal with the issues of the right to shelter that borders on the compounds that people are living in which I had prayed, that due to the global agreement that is between Government and the farmers in so far as compensation is guaranteed; there is need, Mr. Speaker Sir, not to evict those that are in the compounds but work towards making sure that their accommodation and shelter is taken care of by them being given those compounds as theirs and in the future, maybe Government giving title deeds to those in those compounds.
To that end, you ruled that the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement and the Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities should come and have a joint Ministerial Statement so that we can actually deal with the right to shelter in so far as it relates to those people in the compounds because Government is already paying compensation to the former farm owners so that the new farmers do not take those properties as theirs, but they be used for the good order of those people that are living in them, the former farm workers who are compound dwellers, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you. Why do you want to address yourself to two Ministers? Can you explain?
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Section 72 (7) (c)
of the Constitution says the people of Zimbabwe should be enabled to assert their right to land, which land is now being distributed to the urban sector for urban expansion. You find that these farms now fall under the urban local authorities and the Minister of National Housing. This is why I have addressed both the Minister of Agriculture who is mentioned in Section 72 (7) (c) and the Minister of Local Government and National Housing that is mentioned in Section 152 and Section 207 of the Urban Councils Act. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: While you are upstanding Hon. Member, thank you for your erudition of the Constitution but you must be clear in your mind who is in charge of that land so that we can direct your request to the appropriate Minister. As it stands now, who is in charge of that piece of land?
HON. NDUNA: It is the Minister of Agriculture Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you sure?
HON. NDUNA: Certainly Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In an urban area?
HON. NDUNA: No, Mr. Speaker Sir. It is agricultural land. These are compounds which are outside the urban area but they are being given to the Minister of Local Government for urban expansion. I will give an example of Chegutu where 12 farms are being given to Chegutu Municipality for urban expansion.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What would you like the Hon. Minister for Agriculture to say?
HON. NDUNA: I would want him to come in and address the issue of compound dwellers insofar as it relates to reduction of housing backlog. As it stands, those compounds look and seem as though they belong to the A2 farmers, whereas Government has paid compensation or is paying through the global agreement between the farmers and Government, which therefore means that property is not for the A2 farmer but is so far only Government property or State land which watch whether compound people can continue to dwell in those houses. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That sounds like Ministry of Local Government. Can we give you an assignment to go and investigate first to whom that land belongs – is it urban authority or State land? Then we will be guided accordingly.
HON. NDUNA: I will do so Mr. Speaker Sir and I will present my report on Tuesday if it pleases you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.
*HON. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on the issue of the old people and the disabled people. For four months now, those people are not getting assistance from Government. These people are now thinking that they have been forgotten. Can the Hon. Minister respond so that they know what is happening? Thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Chidakwa, yesterday was Question time, you should have asked that question to the Hon. Minister.
*HON. CHIDAKWA: I had another question Hon. Speaker Sir.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: There is nothing like that, why do you not put it in writing so that it is answered next week and you make sure that you give all the details?
HON. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: I rise in terms of Standing Order No. 80. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Standing Orders, in particular especially 80…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is that of national interest Hon. Member?
HON. T. MLISWA: It is of national interest, if you can indulge me.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, our dress code in Parliament - national interest?
HON. T. MLISWA: I am putting on hembe yenyika.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, it is a good shirt.
HON. T. MLISWA: And I was told that it is not a suit, yet I am putting on black trousers.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, it has a black line, so please sit down because your attire is good. Nobody told you to get out.
HON. T. MLISWA: I was told to actually leave the House because I am not well dressed.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, what you are putting on is acceptable. Your top must match somehow with the bottom. That is the bottom line.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speake Sir. It is now almost eight months since I raised a point of national interest on the disappearance of Itai Dzamara. I asked the Minister of Home Affairs to come to this House and inform us on the investigations that he had said they were conducting on the disappearance of Itai Dzamara who disappeared on the 9th March, 2015. On two occasions the Minister promised to bring a Ministerial Statement updating the nation on the investigations. It is now more than eight years. Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I take responsibility with my Clerks-at-the-Table to ensure that the Minister will give that statement.
HON. MADZIMURE: I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise on point of national interest in terms of Section 6 of our Constitution which talks about the languages. Mr. Speaker Sir, we are yet to have the Constitution in the 16 languages. The Constitution is very clear in terms of what the State must do to advance the development of the use of all languages in Zimbabwe. The last time we spoke about the Midlands State University working on it. I think we were misinformed to be told that they took to the Constitution in the 16 languages. It could have been clear if Members of Parliament could have the Constitution in the 16 languages. We represent the people because I do not know any Constitution in Shona, Ndebele, English unless I have missed out something.
It is a cause of concern because this document is critical for the democracy of this country and people in the various areas must have it and read it. We are short of democracy if we do not equip our people with this Constitution in 16 languages as enshrined in the Constitution because it is their right indeed. How can we say that we are a democratic nation when other people are not privy to this Constitution due to the language? This is an issue as we are going towards election which is very important because you will agree that the Bible is written even in Shona, Ndebele and that is why the Kingdom of God is growing. There is no way the country can grow, especially the people in the rural areas who speak Shona are not privy to the Constitution like the Tongas and Sign Language which is important. This Parliament must be able to offer these languages to all legislators because they come from different areas.
I do not know what it takes Mr. Speaker Sir but it calls for concern, 43 years after independence we will have our Constitution in English. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I want to inform you first; it is not correct that there are 16 indigenous languages. There are 16 official recognized languages and of those 16, 14 are the vernacular languages plus Braille aside. Now, be informed that the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is working very closely with our language institutes. Midlands States University, two years ago, translated the Constitution into the 14 vernacular languages officially recognized. I requested for the copies and I was given by the Ministry. Each time I go out to meet the communities in my other jacket, I carry some copies of those constitutions. The other jacket, as Secretary for Legal Affairs is ZANU PF – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – So, if I go for example to Hwange, I know they speak Nambya, Tonga, Shona and Ndebele – [AN HON. MEMBER: Dhombe]- There is no Dhombe, it is Tonga. I carry those copies and after our meetings or before, we distribute those.
We carry also a few copies of the English version and I encourage you to be in touch with the Hon. Leader of Government business, you will be able to get those copies. What I have requested though is that these are a bit bulky, we should reduce them to pocket size like what the Constitution of Malawi, Kenya and South Africa have so that they are portable. I think the Hon. Minister is working on that and we should soon have portable constitutions. It will be very good that you will get copies of these, carry them to your various constituencies and discuss so that we can educate the electorate in terms of the contents of our national Constitution.
HON. T. MLISWA: Sir, kindly ask the Leader of Government business to probably put them in the pigeon holes for Members of Parliament. I believe we represent people and before it gets out vakagona kupa baba saka isu vana ngatichipihwawo. Haunganhonge nyama baba vasati vanhonga, ngatipihwewo tiendese kuma constituency edu. The purpose of pigeon holes serves the purpose of putting such material so that we go and disseminate to our people.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Muri vana hongu asi mabva zera. The request to put in pegion holes is problematic for simple reasons; Hon. Member Gwanetsa, his electorate is Tshangani, so why would you have pieces of copies of all the 14 languages when his constituency is predominately Tshangani? This is why I said treat the request on individual basis according to the linguistic environment where you operate from. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI. Thank you, Hon. Speaker Sir. I wanted to thank you Sir that our problem regarding hotel accommodation has been sorted.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Zvipi handisi kunzwa mushe.
*HON. NYABANI: I want to thank you Hon. Speaker, now we have accommodation. I thank you for solving our problems. Now, as Parliamentarians and members of staff, some of our problems have been solved. I applaud you for the good work.
Now, coming to my point of national interest, His Excellency the President said ‘no one must be left behind’…
Hon. T. Mliswa having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. T. Mliswa, let him finish first.
*HON. NYABANI: You had the floor and I never disturbed you. Thank you, Hon. Speaker Sir. Looking at the new dispensation, we now have clean water provisions in some parts of the country. There are student teachers that are at Madziwa Teachers Training College that are spending a lot of time fetching water. What can be done to assist these student teachers?
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Nyabani, I urge you to put that question in writing so that it can be responded to next week.
*HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. I wanted Hon. Nyabani to be more specific to say accommodation not to say zviya zviya. He should say we are now being accommodated in hotels, the issue of accommodation has been resolved.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2022
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I rise to move a Motion standing in my name that this House takes note of the report of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission for the year 2022 presented to this House in terms of Section 323 (1) of the Constitution. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Before I ask for debate, may I congratulate you Hon. Minister that the majority of the Commissions that follow under your purview are up to date. If they can maintain that Constitutional obligation, I think we will go a long way in complying with the requirements of the Constitution. Thank you.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on the report of 2022 by the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission which, as you know, is a Chapter 12 Commission. The National Peace and Reconciliation Commission has important functions which are defined in Section 252 of the Constitution. The key function is to prevent conflict, anticipate conflict and to ensure that there is reconciliation amity in communities. Our country has gone through massive periods of scars, Gukurahundi for instance, the war of liberation and so on, all these are scars in respect of which the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission was formed. Mr. Speaker, you will agree with me that the issue of peace and reconciliation is a permanent one. It leaves with all States, it does not matter what country it is, you are permanently arrested in conflict because human beings are what they are. My regret Mr. Speaker Sir, is that Section 251 of the Constitution says for a period of ten years, there shall be a Peace and Reconciliation Commission. That means the tenure of the Peace and Reconciliation Commission is only ten years yet the issues that it deals with are permanent issues, and these include issues to do with justice and reconciliation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my submission is that we need to revisit this provision in the Constitution that limits the duration of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission to ten years.
Secondly Mr. Speaker Sir, it says for a period of ten years after the effective date, in other words, after the Constitution came into being, yet the law is giving rise to the existence of the National Peace and Reconciliation, that is. the National Peace and Reconciliation Act. It was only signed into law by the President on the 1st of January, 2018. So, it lost five years. The Commission which was supposed to be ten years effectively becomes five years because the enabling legislation was only enacted in 2018 and it has suffered a double whammy.
My submission, in conclusion, is that we need to revisit Section 261. The issues of peace, transitional justice, reconciliation, amity in communities is a permanent one and cannot be restrained or constrained to a period of ten years and in this case, a period of five years because the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission was only enacted in 2018.
HON. T. MLISWA: It is an issue that I was also hoping to debate on. I think we have been overtaken by events. I think there is a court ruling which is out which has been very clear that it cannot continue and I think it was also important that this institution looked at it much earlier than now because the court has ruled that it cannot because peace is an ongoing agenda. There is never a time where you do not want peace and because of that I think it was important it be there, but it would also be important that for it to continue, there is still other commissions I think which would be able to deal with the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission and I think peace in its own way is a right for people to exercise peace.
It is unfortunate that we then have Hon. Biti who does know that once the court has spoken, again and I do not know if the Government has appealed – [HON. BITI: Inaudible interjections.] – Yes, but then the court says you extend. The court was very clear that you could not extend and there has not been an appeal on that, but what he is saying is quite important, I think at some point because some years were also missed out. The time we did it was a bit late and I think as an arm of the State which is responsible for legislation, it is also important for the various Portfolio Committees to be looking at all these clauses so that we are in line with the expectations of the people because that was important in terms of the future of the country. That will be my contribution Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker, I agree with Hon. Biti that we need what the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission has been doing and Hon. Mliswa is very correct to say that we cannot extend unless if we amend the Constitution. Be that as it may, we are working on transferring the functions of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission to the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission. We are working on a sunset clause so that we can have a transitional period where the functions can be transferred to the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission.
In other jurisdictions, that function is housed there. I do not think we will lose anything. We cannot amend the Constitution now. We are out of time, Parliament is about to be dissolved. I think we will continue working towards ensuring that the critical functions of the National Peace and Reconciliation Commission are done by the other Commission which is the Human Rights Commission.
Having said that Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that debate be now adjourned so that Hon. Members can read and be familiar with the report and then we can debate later on.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION FOR THE YEAR 2022
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to move the Motion standing in my name;
THAT this House takes note of the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Report for the year 2022 presented to this House in terms of Section 323 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I again rise that the debate on this motion do now adjourn to enable Hon. Members to study the report and then we debate next week. So, I move that the debate do now adjourn. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker for recognising me. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 to 5 be stood over until Order Number 6 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
SECOND READING
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONS SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6, 2022].
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on Second reading of the Prisons and Corrections Services Bill [H. B. 6, 2022].
Question again proposed.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to make a few comments and observations on the Bill in general. Madam Speaker, naturally prisons must be used for the purpose of rehabilitating the prisoners and also preparing them to – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible Interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. May the Hon. Member be heard in silence please.
HON. MADZIMURE: I was saying naturally, prisons must be used for the purpose of rehabilitating the prisoners and also preparing them to rehabilitate the prisoners and make sure that they receive psychological support. Madam Speaker, this cannot be done when we have people who are not well trained in the prisons to do the social work. I think that it is important that as we debate this Bill, we must take this opportunity to ensure that there are provisions that prepare prison officers to help the prisoners.
Madam Speaker, I think that it is important that the incarceration itself is enough punishment for a prisoner. I think the next thing is to prepare the prisoners to come and be integrated into the society after he or she has served his or her time in prison. The issue of social workers or those officers with good training as far as counselling is concerned is very important and we now have people who are now specialised in this job, who would be employed in prisons or to train prison officers to render such services to the prisoners. On the issue of how we treat our prisoners, I once visited another country in the NORDIC region where they have got this system that helps a prisoner. The moment a prisoner is incarcerated or is brought to prison, that prisoner is helped to find his/her feet in terms of where he/she can be placed in the prison. You have got people who are mechanics and you have got people who are teachers and people who have various skills. As a result, those people must be categorised so that they are used to do productive work whilst they are in prison.
The other issue that I would want to raise is on the issue of conjugal rights for prisoners. In a country like Sweden, what they do is that the moment you are arrested, you are interviewed and you submit the name of your wife if you are married and if you are a married woman, you submit the name of your husband and if you are a person who is not yet married, your girlfriend. So every Thursday, you are allowed to be visited by your wife or husband in private. The reason is very simple. The issue of sexuality is not a secret and for us to expect someone to go to prison and spend ten years alone in prison without enjoying his/her rights, I think it is wrong.
This can be corrected so easily by making sure that we have prisoners with private accommodation that can be used for that purpose because let us not assume that there is nothing happening in prisons. A lot of things happen in prison - so let it be clear that this is the facility that we have in prisons. There is also one thing that I admired that they do. After you have served a quarter of your sentence, you are even allowed to go out in the company of an officer and visit your family.
In Zimbabwe, we may not be able to do that but we can have a situation where at the end of every month, you have a day maybe a Saturday or a Sunday where we allow prisoners within the confines of the prison to meet their families, especially the children. We have got a typical example of people who were incarcerated for seven years for having not committed any crime, but they were denied the opportunity to meet their families.
I think it is important that we have a special day at the end of every month where the prisoners can interact with their families because we have already punished the inmate by incarcerating him. I think it is important that we also work along those lines and do something to make sure that we have got full rehabilitation of prisoners. A prisoner who spends ten years having left a one year old child, that child will be nine years by then. For you to go home and say I am your father and I am back and expect the child to really embrace the father and understand that this is the father, it is a torrid time for both the prisoner and the child.
I think it is important that we continually make it easier for people outside to interact with those people in prison because this is the only way it will be easier for them when they get out of prison to go and join the community and start creating better relationships. I think that is also important. On the treatment of prisoners, I think this Bill must make it clear that you cannot be leg-ironed just like that. I have got typical examples of Hon. Members who are in this House who would come to prison in leg irons for a crime that is not even murder, for a crime that at the end of the day may just require that particular person to pay a fine. Why dramatise some arrests? I think the use of leg irons must be a last resort for those known dangerous criminals, not ordinary Members of Parliament or members of society who have been arrested for being accused of spreading falsehood.
The status of an individual should not end up affecting to the extent that just because you are probably a councillor or an MP, you are leg-ironed. I do not think that is proper. I am of the opinion that the Minister will take that into consideration.
The other issue that I would want to raise is the issue of solitary confinements. If you are still on remand, you must be in a remand prison. You cannot because of the status of an individual or politically exposed person, to suddenly decide to keep that person in a maximum prison. The prisons should not be given that power to just decide where a person is supposed to be detained. If you are still on remand, you must be remanded in a Remand Prison. The moment you take the person from the Remand Prison to a Maximum Prison, you have already imposed a judgement on the individual. I do not think it is necessary the way we handle some of the issues as far as the prisons are concerned, munhu ngaagarewo kujeri revanomirira kutongwa kana asati awanikwa anemhosva.
It must not be the prerogative of the prison just to take someone to a certain prison. Everybody must be treated as a suspect and when found guilty, then the person will be sentenced and taken to a particular prison. These are the issues Madam Speaker that I wanted to raise and I hope the Minister will find it in his wisdom to put in place measures that will not expose our prisoners. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. The issue of this Bill touches to the core, the pith, the heart of my concerns as it relates to mental health, separating the hospital from prison. I say this on two issues. The issue of complete board that deals with mental health of prisoners. The constitution of the same is key, otherwise we will continue to incarcerate mentally challenged people and have four holes of prison as a hospital. I ask that the constitution of the board for those charged with adjudicating and pointing out that these are mental health patients be constituted expeditiously completely so that these people are not unnecessarily held in prison when they are mentally challenged.
The second issue of depression and disorders does develop, some come with exiting conditions but some develop these conditions in prisons. It is my hope that standing on this pedestal and platform of this Bill, we can actually do a final blow to the issue of amalgamating imprisonment to those that are healthy mentally and making sure we are separating these from those that have health problems.
Still it is very key to actually fish out and identify that we now have mentally challenged people who are now suffering from depression, anxiety and mental disorders after they go into prison. In particular, you will now find that 30 to 40 years ago we would not have as many people in prison that abused drugs like we have now. Now we have 65% more people that have drug abuse-oriented crimes in prisons than we had 20, 30, 40 years ago. So, it is quite concerning and it is something that we need to really look closely into and make sure that we use this Bill to annihilate that scourge. It is because of the physical and environment of prison that actually gives stress. Besides just the issue of incarceration, the issue of rehabilitation should really take center stage because of some conditions that develop while somebody is incarcerated. Madam Speaker, the people that we are talking about are separated both from their livelihood externally as foreigner and their loved ones internally as indigenous players.
Madam Speaker this brings me to my next point, when a foreign criminal is arrested, it should not take prison to be a social welfare centre. Prison should be prison and we should not unnecessarily have our prisons keeping people that are awaiting deportation. It is my thinking, in other countries, in Europe for argument’s sake when you are an illegal traveler, you go out as soon as you arrive. The flight that brought you in is the one that takes you back. So, it should not be an issue of debate that somebody came boarding Ethiopian Airlines and was caught at Beitbridge Border Post and now he is awaiting deportation. Whether his country of origin requires him or not, we should send him on the flight that he came on. Where he is going should not be an issue of Zimbabwe, otherwise we are necessarily burdening our prisons because we have people that are awaiting deportation. We have food and a lot of expenses that our prisons are bearing because of people that are awaiting deportation.
Madam Speaker, as I wind up, I want to say prison definitely should be a place of last resort because once you are there you are exposed to issues to do with violence and issues to do with trying to turn your sexual orientation to be skewed in the liking of those that are around you all the time. I say this because I also experienced prison life but I got out of prison before I could be changed. So, I say prison should be a last resort because you are exposed to violence including sexual violation.
The issue of solitary confinement actually disturbs your mental aptitude. As much as we can say prisoners and inmates are taken care of, the issue of treatment really when somebody gets to be ill is not as versatile as it is when you are outside. When you are outside you also have private treatment that you can also deal with. When you go inside you even lose the support of your loved ones in terms of monetary support. So, you cannot even adjudicate and point out somebody, a doctor who is private to attend to you.
Madam Speaker, I want to end here, but I want to vociferously, eloquently, effectively and efficiently get to be heard about the deportation immediately of those that would have been found to be on the wrong side of the law if the courts actually talk of deportation. We have no reason to deal with people that would want conjugal rights and procreation rights such like in our prisons. They should go back on that same vehicle or in that same direction. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Members who debated my Second Reading speech on the Prisons and Correctional Services Bill, especially the Committee Chairperson of Justice, for a very good report and the other Hon. Members.
I just want to start by responding to the Portfolio Committee’s report. In the Committee report, there was a general submission that young inmates and older inmates should be separated. I agree Madam Speaker, Clause 76 of the Bill provides for separation, classification and re-classification of offenders. In Clause 76 (1), the Bill states that inmates shall, on admission to prison or correctional facility, be separated by the Officer in Charge into one or more groups and these groups include the juvenile inmates, young offenders and adults. There was also a submission by the powers that be, of promotion being given to the Commission and the indication was that this was inconsistent with the Constitution. Madam Speaker Ma’am, on the contrary this is not correct. The powers that are listed to the Commission do not include that but include the power to appoint. Generally, across our service Commissions from a certain rank, this is reserved for the Head of State.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, there were other submissions. I want to thank Hon. Biti for his submissions. He spoke about the shift that we are now doing from a penal regime to a correctional rehabilitation regime. Our thrust as you rightly put it, is to shift from this philosophy of revenge to restoration. In fact, the curriculum of our prisons and correctional officers has shifted so that it focuses and we concentrate on the correction aspect. You can notice, we have a programme on our national television where we try to link up the offenders and their families and our correctional officers go out to communities and having meetings so that they can reconcile the offender with the community. That programme is actually speaking to what the Constitution wants us to do. We want to move away from what used to happen where we would call a prisoner a bandit. We should not call a prisoner a bandit because some of you who are here are lucky that you were not caught but those in prison were unfortunate to have been caught, tried and incarcerated. We want the mindset to change.
Hon. Mushoriwa spoke about rights of prisoners, saying the Bill does not give rights to the prisoners, it gives too much power to the Minister, I do not know what he meant. Madam Speaker Ma’am, the Bill in fact is giving rights to prisoners. In fact, this Bill is coming at a time when we are aligning it to the Constitution. I submit Madam Speaker that as we go clause by clause, the Hon. Members will see that we are indeed speaking to what the Constitution requires us to do in that regard.
Hon. Biti also spoke about the issue of rights and I agree but he was more inclined as a politician to say we must give them the Section 67 rights to vote. These are not absolute rights and we have several court decisions in that regard. For now, Madam Speaker, the Bill does not include that right because it is not a right in prison, it is a right outside. He also spoke about the majority of our prisons having been built during the colonial era and are not fit and are substandard. To a certain extent, that is correct. Some of our prisons are very old. This is a budgetary and fiscal issue. We are very much eager to have our prisons revamped and some built and if we can get funding to ensure that we do that, the happiest people will be myself and the prisons and correctional officers because the conditions are not conducive. I think as a country, we must applaud them, because the way they are ensuring that our prisoners are taken care of under conditions that are very difficult, is something that is commendable.
Hon. Speaker, we want each and every Parliamentarian to lobby for us to be given funding even though it is an issue that is outside the purview of this Bill. What we included in the Bill is we are now having community correctional facilities, open prison, so that we decongest. There are certain prisoners that we feel can be accommodated in community centres and open correctional facilities. Again, he spoke about the right to human dignity that parole must be extended to all prisoners including those convicted of murder. I agree we need to refine the parole system so that it speaks to that. The issue of solitary confinement also came in and the argument is that we must allow our prisoners to mingle. We are developing our system and I believe that the rights that are in the Constitution, our desire is to shift from a purely penal to a correctional facility which will be realised and this is the first step Madam Speaker by bringing this Bill forward.
Hon. Dube spoke about the living conditions which I have already alluded to that what he mentioned, we agree with that and he indicated that conditions must be better. We agree and it is a budgetary issue; we would gladly want to improve our facilities like one Hon. Member said anyone can find himself or herself in prison. It is in the best interest of everyone to ensure that the living standards there are up to the standard required of a prison facility.
Hon. Musarurwa spoke about a starter pack for prisoners when they are coming out of prison. Our prison officers are always looking out for well-wishers - I think perhaps in future, we might need funding to ensure that those that acquire skills, we can also give them starter packs to go out there and start their own businesses. We have excellent mechanics, welders, teachers and so forth. We are now encouraging our prisoners to study and be able to work for themselves when they go out.
Hon. Madzimure spoke about prisons for rehabilitation and indicated that they must receive psychological support. I think that is what is happening. Believe me, the training that we are now giving our correctional officers when prisoners get in, they try to make them adjust psychologically to the reality that is there. They will speak to them so that they relax and accept their situation and then work on a programme that will ensure that as they progress through their journey, they will get out of prison as rehabilitated individuals. So, our curriculum now speaks to exactly what you were saying and we also have psychologists in our prisons by the way. The Hon. Member also stated that people who go to prison have various skills. We are now trying to educate the public that if we have people with various skills, we must utilise them. The last time we tried to utilise people with various skills, to train people, there was an uproar. Our mindset is such that if somebody goes to prison, he is a bandit, he must not do anything but we want to utilise their skills and rehabilitate them whilst they impart the skills on other people. I remember there was an outcry that why is that happening, it is a special treatment to a prisoner, but it is utilising the skill and ensuring that they also impart on others.
Madam Speaker, our liberation war heroes were forming classes to teach each other and some graduated from prisons because of that. We are saying now the thrust is correctional, if we have somebody with a specific skill, I agree with Hon. Madzimure, we must use them so that they become productive. He also spoke about the issue of family visits, we now have a day where prisoners are visited by their families. That has been introduced and they are very popular.
You also spoke about conjugal rights. I think we must start by first things first. Let us go through the Bill and ensure that we have a Bill that speaks to our prisons as a place where our people are incarcerated, corrected, rehabilitated and then reintegrated. As we improve our facilities, we can then start talking about that - but currently, I think it is premature to start talking about that without first of all having reached a certain level in terms of how we perceive our correctional facilities.
Hon. Nduna was very passionate about the issue of prohibited immigrants and I agree, but it is a conversation not for this Bill but a conversation with the relevant Department of Immigration. Again, they also need to create their own safe homes where they can hold their own prohibited immigrants before they are deported.
Having said that Madam Speaker, once again, I want to thank the Hon. Members for the debate and hopefully some of the issues that they raise as we go clause by clause, they will be able to highlight if there are any pressing issues that they believe we must amend. I believe that at this moment in time, allow me Madam Speaker to move that the Bill be now read a second time. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Committee Stage: With leave, forthwith.
COMMITTEE STAGE
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6, 2022]
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 and 2 put and agreed to.
On Clause 3:
HON. B. DUBE: I move the amendment standing in my name that Clause 3 is amended on page 11 of the Bill between lines 10 and 11, by the insertion of a new paragraph in sub-clause (2) after paragraph (c) as follows – ‘(d) reserve force of not more than two retired correctional officers.’
Amendment to Clause 3 put and agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 4:
HON. BITI: May I suggest Hon. Chairman to the Minister, that on ‘the principles that guide the services and provision of functions are…’; I think number 1 should be ‘to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law in the protection of prison and inmate rights. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Chair. The Preamble sufficiently covered all those issues, I think we will be labouring ourselves with things that are already there. I submit and reject that amendment.
Clauses 4 and 5 put and agreed to.
On Clause 6:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My suggestion is on 6 (5). I want the Hon. Minister to consider amending that by just putting one word under (5) so that it reads – ‘in the exercise of his/her powers and the performance of his/her duties, the functions under this Act, the Commissioner General is accountable and subject to policy directive of the Minister’. I want the word ‘policy’ there to be stated rather than to leave as the direction of the Minister as if the Minister will be micro-managing the Commissioner General.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I think it was an omission and I agree. So, it should read, “in the exercise of his/her powers and the performance of his/her duties and functions under this Act, the Commissioner is accountable and subject to policy directions from the Minister”. Thank you.
Amendment to Clause 6 put and agreed to.
Clause 6, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 7 put and agreed to.
On Clause 8:
HON. MUSHORIWA: It is actually on subclause (1). I need the Minister to say ‘subject to this section, the Commissioner General shall be appointed for a period of five years, with a maximum of two terms’. So I need an addition to say that yes, he is appointed for five years but the standard is that senior officers are allowed to be appointed to a maximum of two terms. The way it is put there, it appears as if it is just one term.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I agree and I think it should be subject to this section, the Commissioner General shall be appointed for a period of five years renewable once.
Amendment to Clause 8 put and agreed to.
Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
HON. MUSHORIWA: It is actually on number (4) Mr. Chairman which I thought the Minister could also with his indulgence, it says ‘the Commissioner General may be removed from office by the President for any reason after consultation with the Minister and the President shall cause Parliament to be informed as soon as practicable about the offence and such removal. I am not comfortable with the word as soon as practicable, and I thought maybe three months would be a reasonable period rather than to simply say as soon as practicable. More-so, without a definition of the terms as soon as practicable in the definition.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I want to check in the Constitution. The reason why it is problematic is the assumption that Parliament will be sitting. You need to make reference to sitting days, the next after the removal. If we say 90 days, the assumption is that Parliament will be there sitting always. So, it is problematic to put it that way. I am trying to find a way of doing it. I would have been comfortable leaving it like that. Hon. Chair, with your indulgence, can we go to the next while I try to get the wording that may be suitable because 90 days might be problematic.
Clause 8 deferred.
Clauses 9 and 10 put and agreed to.
On Clause 11:
HON. B. DUBE: The movement of the amendment as it would appear in the Order Paper as follows:
Clause 11 of the Bill is amended on page 14—
(a) in line 16 by deletion of “twelve months” and the substitution of “five years”;
(b) in line 24 by deletion of “twelve months” and the substitution of “five years”;
(c) in line 32 by deletion of “twelve months” and the substitution of “five years.”.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Chairman, I agree with the amendments as moved by the Chair of the Committee.
Amendment to Clause 11 put and agreed to.
Clause 11, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 12:
HON. B. DUBE: Thank you Hon. Chair. The proposal is as it appears on the Order Paper as follows:
Clause 12 is amended on page 14 of the Bill in line 46, by the insertion of a new sub-clause after sub-clause (1) as follows—
“(2) In the event that a retiring correctional officer is not promoted to a higher rank, he or she shall retain the rank held on retirement and be allowed to wear his or her uniform at State functions”. and the subsequent sub-clause shall accordingly be renumbered. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chairman, I agree with the amendments as they appear on the Order Paper as proposed by the Chair of the Committee.
Amendment to Clause 12, put and agreed to.
Clause 12, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 13 to 21 put and agreed to.
On Clause 22:
HON. MUSHORIWA: Hon. Chair, on subsection (a), I actually think that the Correctional Service Commissions should submit to the Minister an annual report after 90 days. I want therefore to suggest that we replace the words ‘shall as soon as possible after 31st December’, to read ‘shall within 90 days after 31st December, to submit to the Minister an annual report’. Leaving it open ended is problematic and in any event, Hon. Chair, most of our statutes stipulate 90 days by the end of March, any organization and any department should be in a position to have submitted a report to the Minister.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (HON. KHUMALO): You are not connected Hon. Member.
HON. MUSHORIWA: I am suggesting that we replace the word ‘as soon as possible after 31st December’ to read ‘shall within 90 days after 31st December, submit to the Minister an annual report’. The idea is to put a timeframe which I think is in tandem with most of the statutes that we have actually passed through with this Parliament.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair, I agree with Hon. Mushoriwa that we amend so that Clause 22 subclause 1 (a) reads as follows: ‘The Commission shall within 90 days after the 31st of December…’. I submit.
Amendment to Clause 22 put and agreed to.
Clause 22, as amended, put and agreed to.
HON. BITI: We have that answer to the clause that we said we will revert to. We just said the President shall lay before Parliament in one of the 14 days.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGALAND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Let us finish the one we are doing first then we revert to that.
THE TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON: I go back to Clause 8; Retirement and Removal of Commissioner General.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): The clause we parked, sub-clause 8, it will read: ‘the Commissioner General may be removed from office by the President for any reason after consultation with the Minister and the President shall cause Parliament to be informed on one of the 14 days in which Parliament next sits’. So, it should read here instead of ‘as soon as the President shall cause Parliament to be informed on one of the 14 days on which Parliament next sits’.
What it now means is, once we have removed and written a letter that the Commissioner General has been discharged through the Minister when Parliament sits within 14 days, if we adjourn today and we start on Tuesday, we count 14 days and within that period then it will not make sense. Otherwise simply saying 90 days if Parliament is not sitting, it will be impossible to execute. I submit and move that the amendment be now made.
Amendment to new Clause 8 put and agreed to.
New Clause 8, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 24 to 31 put and agreed to.
On Clause 32:
HON. MUSHORIWA: My Intervention is actually on subsection (1). It says that the correctional officer inspects each prison or correctional facility at such intervals as may be prescribed by the Commissioner General. I think we should put at least twice. We do not want to leave it open because we have had a situation where certain prisons or correctional facilities, there are no visits by senior officers. I think if we could actually put timeframes to say twice a year or any other period that the Commissioner General may direct. Let us have timeframes, the word may direct is not obligatory and I think we should have something at least once a year or as the Commissioner General may prescribe.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMETNARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank Hon. Mushoriwa but this time he missed it. The way he is reading it is not what it is saying, it is saying that correctional officers shall inspect each prison or correctional facility at such intervals as may be prescribed or as the Commissioner General may direct. In regulations, or in rules that they will prescribe, that will be indicated but they will come certain times when the Commissioner General may direct that the inspection must be done. The Hon. Member concentrated on the Commissioner General, it is his discretion to say I want an inspection but there should be prescribed times in regulations. I think the way it is, is correct. I submit Hon. Chair and move that we adopt it as it is.
Clause 32 put and agreed to.
On Clause 33:
HON. BITI: The proposed section is saying a correctional officer should be familiar with the Act rules and Standing Orders. I think the starting document that he should be familiar with is the Constitution. So I would suggest that every correctional officer shall be familiar with the provisions of the Constitution, this Act and other rules. You could add a Bible if you wanted to but the Constitution should be there before the Act.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair, it does not offend anything. I agree that we can put that amendment to read ‘be familiar with provisions of the Constitution, this Act’ and then it reads like that. I agree and move that that amendment we can incorporate it. I thank you.
Amendment to Clause 33 put and agreed to.
Clause 33, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 34 to 38 put and agreed to.
On Clause 39:
HON. B. DUBE: I move the amendment standing in my name on Declaration of Cantonments. Minister may, by notice in a statutory instrument, declare any area or place to be a cantonment for the purposes of this section.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENT AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): So it is an insertion of a new Clause 39 and others being numbered accordingly. I agree with the amendment that we insert after Clause 38 on page 23 a new Clause 39 entitled declaration of cantonments and then we renumber and then we introduce another Clause 40. Let us deal with the new Clause 39 which we are proposing. I support the amendment made by the Chairperson of the Committee.
Amendment to New Clause 39 put and agreed to.
New Clause 39, as amended, put and agreed to.
On New Clause 40:
HON.B. DUBE: I move the amendment standing in my name on Prohibition of entry into cantonments.
No person shall enter a cantonment except a person who is:
(a) a member of the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Service; or
(b) the spouse or child of a person referred to in paragraph (a) who is residing in the cantonment or any other member of his family if such other member resides in the cantonment; or
(c) a member of a reserve force who enters a cantonment in the course of any service, duty or training under this Act; or
(d) employed by the State or acting under the orders of the Minister and who enters a cantonment in the course of his duty; or
(e) permanently residing within the cantonment at the time of the publication of the notice referred to in section 39; or
(f) a person or member of a class of persons authorised to enter the cantonment under section 41.
(2) Any person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 5 or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I want to thank the Hon. Chairperson. I agree that we insert a new Clause 40 as it fully appears on the Order Paper on prohibition of entry into cantonments. I thank you.
New Clause 40 put and agreed to.
On Clause 39, now Clause 41:
HON. B. DUBE: I move the amendment in my name on authority to enter cantonments. The officer in charge of a cantonment may, in writing, authorise any person or class of persons to enter that cantonment on such conditions as shall be specified in
such authority.”.
and the subsequent clauses shall accordingly be renumbered.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I agree with the amendments as proposed by the Chairperson of the Committee as it fully appears in the order paper.
Amendments to Clause 39, now Clause 41, put and agreed to.
Clause 39, now Clause 41, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 40, now Clause 42:
On Clause 40 now Clause 42:
HON. BITI: Mr. Chairman, Subsection 39 (2) where it says ‘as far as practicable’ I think that should be removed. I think it should simply read ‘a correctional officer shall not enter into a cell in which inmates of the opposite sex are confined unless accompanied by correction officers of the same sex.’ If you put ‘as far as practicable’ it is almost permissive and you know what will happen. I think we should remove ‘as far as practicable’ and put ‘no correctional officer shall enter into a cell where members of the opposite sex are without someone accompanying’.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Hon. Chair, under those circumstances I would agree with Hon. Biti but it is not correct to put it that way. There may be cases of emergency and it may be extremely necessary that the correctional officer enters the cell. That is why we battled and we had to leave it like that to say ‘as far as practicable’.
Again, you must always be mindful that these prisons and correctional officers are part of our security forces and they are subject to disciplinary measures if they breach protocol, so the way it is - is okay. If they go an extra mile, then the disciplinary procedures will ensue, but there are certain times when - I will give a good example that the only nurse available is a female nurse and somebody is having a heart attack, no correctional officer is in sight. You will budge in and get in there and assist that particular prisoner and then explain that this was an extreme emergency.
I believe that the way it is, bearing in mind that this is a security sector where members within this particular force are supposed to be highly disciplined, is okay. If they were civilians like you and me, I would have agreed. I submit Hon. Chair.
Amendments to Clause 40 now Clause 42, put and agreed to.
Clause 40 now Clause 42, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 41 now Clause 43 to Clause 43 now Clause 45 put and agreed to.
On Clause 44 now Clause 46:
HON. B. DUBE: I put the amendment standing in my name that Clause 43 of the Bill is amended - (a) on page 23 sub-clause 1, lines 44 and 45, by the deletion of ‘officer specifically mandated by the Commissioner-General’ and the substitution of ‘member of the internal police unit, (b) on page 24 by the deletion of the proviso to sub-clause (1) and the substitution of the following – ‘Provided that the member of the internal police unit may effect arrest on any correctional officer regardless of rank.’
Amendment to Clause 44, now Clause 46, put and agreed to.
Clause 44, now Clause 46, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 45, now Clause 47 and Clause 46, now Clause 48 put and agreed.
On Clause 47, now Clause 49:
HON. BITI: My suggestion is this provision gives the Commissioner-General powers to suspend correctional officers. Subsection 2(b) says ‘a disciplinary hearing shall be instituted forth with in terms of the Act, if it has not been instituted.’ I am proposing that 2 (b) should read ‘additional hearing shall be instituted forthwith and, in any event, no later than 14 days’ and then you just leave it like that. That provision, if they have not been instituted is totally unnecessary.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I agree that we amend the old Clause 46, subsection (2) (b) to read: ‘disciplinary hearing shall be instituted forthwith and, in any event, not later than 14 working days from the date of suspension.’
Amendment to Clause 49 put and agreed to.
Clause 49, as amended, put and agreed to.
On Clause 48:
HON. MUSHORIWA: I actually think that subsection (1) should be amended to say, a correction officer suspended in terms of section 46, shall receive full pay. I think it is in sync with general labour practice and if you also look the way this is crafted, it gives the discretion to the Commissioner General to decide whether or not a person suspended should be on full pay or on half pay. I think you then read the other clauses that are underneath this and you will realise that a suspension should not last more than three months. I do not think there is any harm to ensure that a suspended officer gets his full pay within that period and it also helps in terms of the delivery of justice in terms of having the hearing happening as soon as practicable.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I am not seeing anything offensive in this clause. Rather, it is very accommodating because if you are found not guilty you will get all your money and here the Commissioner General is being mandated to pay not less than half. If you go further, he can even say allow him to get full pay. I think it is not offensive to the extent that we may boggle our minds and say it must strictly be on full pay. There are certain disciplinary actions that dictate that, that particular individual must not get full pay and that discretion must be allowed as this is a disciplined service and there are limitations. I think it is in order. I respectfully reject the amendment. I thank you.
Clause 48, now Clause 51 put and agreed to.
On Clause 49, now Clause 52:
HON. BITI: There is a disaster Hon. Minister. It says the law to be applied in these disciplinary proceedings, if you read Section 49 (c), the law to be applied shall fall as closely as possible criminal cases. Then it says for the avoidance of doubt, the guilt of the accused shall be on a balance of probabilities. It is a contradiction because you cannot on one hand say you are applying criminal law which is a proof beyond reasonable doubt and then you say guilt is on a balance of probabilities. My suggestion is to just remove the entire Section 49 because the law of Zimbabwe will apply. These are disciplinary cases, labour cases will apply and so you do not need that section, just remove it.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chair, I move that we delete this Clause 49. It is not necessary because we have disciplinary procedures in terms of the rules that are already there. I do not think we need it and if there is need for that, it will be covered in regulations. The last part is contradictory. I so move Hon. Chair.
Amendment to Clause 49, now Clause 52, put and agreed to.
Clause 49, now Clause, 52 deleted
On Clause 50, now Clause 52:
HON. BITI: I think there is a conflation here and it now explains why 49 was worded the way it was. If there is a disciplinary issue then the matter is a disciplinary issue. So, disciplinary issues are labour issues, either absenteeism, willful disobedience to a lawful order, or any conduct inconsistent with the fulfilment with the express or implied terms of one’s contract. So, your board is a disciplinary board. However, if a correctional officer commits an offence, it is now a different issue and the board that is envisaged here is a board where the prison officer has committed an offence. That is where the difference is and that is where the criminal element comes in.
This section, we are dealing with labour issues, and section 50 should refer to a disciplinary board or a Disciplinary Committee. The issue of a board where there is prosecution and where in terms of the next section, section 51, the officer can elect to be tried at the Magistrate Court must pertain to breach of the country’s criminal laws, where he can now say I do not want to be tried internally, I want to go to the Magistrate Courts.
Here we are talking about labour issues, so labour issues cannot be prosecuted, there is no prosecution in labour issues. Section 50 needs to be revisited so that we restrict to labour matters and it is a disciplinary matter. However, where a prison officer commits a criminal offence, that is different and that is where 46 was talking of criminal proof beyond reasonable doubt because that is now a criminal offence and that is where the correctional officer can elect to be tried in the Magistrate Courts, which is a different thing. So, this needs to be revisited.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Hon. Chairperson, I move that we report progress and seek leave to sit again.
House resumed.
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Ten Minutes to Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 11th May, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, today is Thursday and in terms of our procedure we start with Questions Without Notice and in the Senate today we have Hon. Deputy Minister of Information and Publicity, Hon. Kindness Paradza; Hon. Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Edgar Moyo; the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Culture and Heritage, Hon. Ruth Mavhunga-Maboyi; the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. Marian Chombo. Those are the Ministers who are present today. I am sure other Ministers will join us. Thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President for giving this opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Minister, students are being turned away from school with an instruction to tell their parents and guardians that they should pay fees in USD currency. What is Government policy on that?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very Mr. President and thank you very much to the Member who has fielded the question. The issue of payment of fees is guided by our policy as Government that all currencies that are legal tender in the country must be used and the school heads know that very well. If they are transgressing and departing from what is policy, then they are committing an act of misconduct which is chargeable in terms of our disciplinary procedures. So, if that is happening and you could give us the name of the school and the head, our officers normally will be sent to the school to investigate and disciplinary procedures will be instituted against the offending school heads.
Last week we resent out that circular which speaks to the payment modes that parents should follow. If they have US dollars that is fine it is acceptable. If they have Zimbabwe dollars, that is fine and it is acceptable. If they have swipe or Ecocash, whatever mode is acceptable. We would very much be happy to know the schools that are offending. Already, we have received some from Hon. Members here, I think two days back, I had some senators in my office who brought that to our attention and we sent officers to investigate. They have found those offending heads and disciplinary measures are being instituted right now. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity to raise a question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. What measures is the Government putting in place to curb accidents that are killing a lot of students on trips.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: About road accidents, I do not know whether there is somebody from the Ministry of Transport. Hon. Moyo, would you like to answer that question?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very Mr. President. I will answer that from the perspective of the Ministry in terms of our policy guidelines on travel by students. The policy stipulates clearly that where children are supposed to be travelling, the bus that they are using must be a licensed public transport licensed operator. Secondly, that transport must be fit for purpose and we also advise our schools not to travel students at night. That must be done during the day. Modes of transport are different, sometimes schools have got their own buses and sometimes they hire out their buses. So, the other aspect of road worthiness and other things to do with laws and transport are better handled by the Ministry of Transport. They must also be insured vehicles. In brief that is how far I can go regarding that. We are very worried as a Ministry about the prevalence on the accidents involving our students. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Thank you Mr. President of the Senate. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. The Ministry did well with the introduction on CALA but however, it seems CALA is involving elders more than the children. The children do not know anything but others are more involved in CALA. What can you do to reduce the burden on parents because of CALA? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very Mr. President. I would also like to thank the Hon. senator for asking that question. This question has come at the appropriate time when schools are just opening and whilst we are also preparing for curriculum review. In 2015, in accordance with the Nziramasanga Commission, we realised that the education we are obtaining now is not commensurate with what is obtaining in the industry and elsewhere. We decided to change it so that it is in sync with what is obtaining. It was clear that the curricula which was in place was more of desk learning, not thinking, so we had to change it. We were now putting a competence-based curriculum so that children learn how to do and to critically think. CALA was another way of assessing the children. On the assessment model, we used to have a summative model without looking at what the child had been engaged in prior to that. Now CALA is therefore the formative assessment. It is there to help summative model and, in that way, CALA came in.
Teachers were taught how to apply CALA, approach this CALA and how to distribute it to the students. The child should be helped by the parent or guardian. The child is required to discover things and look for knowledge elsewhere, not only from the teacher. If at all under CALA, children are burdened with a lot of things, that is wrong. It should be done bit by bit throughout the term. In the curriculum review we are looking at right now, we look at the CALA and when we establish when we are going to do this, we will inform you of the dates and places so that we get input from all stakeholders for us to be able to help all the children. I thank you.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage. The country is going to hold general elections sometime in August on a date that is going to be decided and announced by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe. Previously, our elections have been assumed not to be fair for reasons valid and not valid, also including violence. ZRP is a key stakeholder in this regard and is the enforcement mechanism of the Government. May the Hon. Deputy Minister honour this House by explaining the state of preparedness of our police force to ensure elections are run peacefully, policing is thorough and that the elections are peaceful following His Excellency’s mantra, no to violence in August.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): Well, we are very much prepared. Why am I saying so? Because our police are a disciplined police force. At the same time, we are trying to make sure that they go for some exercises to prepare for riots and those who make noise and so forth. We are doing that. Now, on peaceful elections, it is all about us together because police can come in but if we do not talk to our supporters as political parties, including us as Members of Parliament, to talk to our people back home but everything is ready. We are ready for that as you can see that we are also ready on issuing I. Ds and so forth. We are on the ground observing what is happening. So, we are ready Hon. Senator. Thank you very much.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Deputy Minister of Information. One of the topical issues in this country is the compensation of victims of political violence. I would like to know how far the Government has gone in compensating victims of political violence. These include the victims of Gukurahundi. In your answer, may you also address whether the Government has any intention of compensating victims of the 2008 violence. How far also has the Government gone in implementing the recommendations of the Motlanthe Commission regarding compensation of the victims?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. PARADZA): In all fairness, this question is beyond my purview, it is not for the Ministry of Information. I think it is for other ministries, not Information.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Mwonzora, I suggest you put that question in writing. Perhaps, the more relevant Ministry is Ministry of Justice or the Leader of Government Business but if you want a detailed answer, I would urge you to put it in writing.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: I stand guided, save that I thought that one of the Ministers present would be the Acting Leader. I assumed that my friend, the Minister of Information was probably standing in for the Leader of the House.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Is there anybody who has been delegated to be Leader of the House?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. PARADZA): On my side Mr. President, I did not get that brief from my boss.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Mwonzora, I urge you perhaps to wait for the relevant Ministry to come across or to put it in writing, whichever you choose.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate. I wanted to direct my question to the Minister of Energy and Power Development but he is not in the House.
*THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Paradza, as the Acting Leader of Government Business will take the questions.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: We have a serious problem in various places with regard to transformers that are being installed by ZESA. They are being stolen as soon as they are installed, a transformer along Mazowe Road close to the New Parliament Building where I stay was installed but after a few days, it was gone. Residents contributed their monies to buy another transformer and again it was stolen. What is the problem, Hon. Minister?
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: That is a very specific question that requires the Hon. Minister to research concerning that particular area. So, I will not burden Hon. K. Paradza on that one.
Before I give the floor to Hon. Sen. Chief Nhema, let me take this opportunity to allow the Hon. Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. E. Moyo to speak. Last time he promised the Senate that he was going to look into an issue that was raised by Senators on State assisted education.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much, Mr. President of the Senate. I want to make reference to the last adjournment of the Senate where the issue of State-funded education was raised and reference to the constitutional provisions regarding that was made here. I think the Hon. Member who raised the issue suggested that in terms of Section 75 (1), every child in Zimbabwe is supposed to receive State-funded education.
In Section 75 (1) (b), he read that further education which the State through reasonable legislative and other measures, must make education available and accessible and that was the point of departure where reference to that shall be only placed where the progressive realization of education in plight was in relation to further education.
However, this section is worth noting that Section 75 must not be read outside the other subsections. I will read the whole section so that we all understand; - ‘Section 75 of the Constitution provides that every citizen and permanent resident of Zimbabwe has a right to (a), a basic standard State-funded education including adult basic education and (b) further education which the State, through reasonable legislative and other measures must make progressively available and accessible. Every person has a right to establish and maintain at their own expense, independent educational institutions of reasonable standards provided they do not discriminate on any ground prohibited by this Constitution. Subsection 3, the law may provide for the registration of educational institutions referred to in subsection 2, and for the closing of any such institutions that do not meet reasonable standards prescribed for registration.
Now, the qualifying clause which I want to make reference to, that is subsection 4, the ‘State must take reasonable legislative and other measures within the limits of the resources available to it to achieve in the progressive realization of the right set out in subsection 1’, which is our emphasis. This is where we have been talking about the progressive realization of State-funded education. So, I wanted to make that clear that in the last discussion, the Member only read subsection 1and he did not go up to four which then qualifies how the State must progress with State-funded education. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: My question was directed to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Turning to the GMBs, we have transporters who ferry inputs and all Government things. The Government cannot timeously pay, and we understand that the Government has challenges with its own finances. When are those that worked in August last year going to be paid? I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Honourable, would you want to attempt that?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. K. PARADZA): What I would want to advise Hon. Chief Nhema is that our senior who sits in Cabinet is now here and he will respond to that question.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Kazembe, would you want to respond to that question to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development relating to transporters and their payments? Apparently, there are some outstanding payments dating back to last year.
*THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Good afternoon, Mr. President Sir. I would like to sincerely thank the Hon. Chief for his pertinent question and also thank the Deputy Minister for deferring the question to me. His question is very important and hence it requires an equally detailed response. All I can do is request the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to come and respond to the question for the satisfaction of this august House. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think that is only fair, that the Hon. Minister comes and address the issue on the rampant price increases.
(V)HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. E. Moyo. What has the ministry done to assist schools that have always produced zero percent pass rates in Grade Seven (7) examinations? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Hon. President of the Senate and thank you very much to Hon. Mpofu for that very important question.
The issue of zero percent pass rates in our schools is very much concerning. There are a number of variables. We have carried out some researches and investigations as to why there is that prevalence. The question really says, what are we doing about it? We are currently in partnership with Lupane State University, with their Department of Education. They have conducted researches on the possible reasons and solutions to address that problem. Some of the problems are beyond the capacity of schools to address and require a national effort especially when we look at the issue of infrastructure, resources at their disposal, and human resources, teachers for example.
What we have done is to run workshops for those schools to try and enhance their performance. One thing that is very difficult at the moment is the issue of viability of those schools. Some of the schools have as few as three to four teachers running nine classes from ECD to Grade Seven (7). Then you have composite classes to that situation. Honestly, the quality of education in that environment is seriously compromised. So, we need to have viable schools.
What do we mean by viable schools? We need schools with sufficient enrolments so as to attract a good number of teachers to teach each class of their own but that is not happening because some schools have such low enrolments as 30 to 35 and so forth, particularly in the resettlement areas. The other problem is the issue of infrastructure; we are currently working around the issue of infrastructure. We are building some classroom blocks here and there but still have about 30 or less schools with bad infrastructure at the moment. We have engaged some of our partners to assist us to lift the level of infrastructure in those schools.
The schools are also receiving grants from our partners which we call School Improvement Grants (SIG) so that resources like books and other requisite equipment are procured for the benefit of those children. Now, if a school is not viable as already illustrated, it means that the school is not registered and it cannot have a substantive head and we have a teacher-in-charge of that particular school. The quality of education there becomes a problem. We are trying to build infrastructure, register those schools, attract sufficient teachers and students so that we can address the issue of zero percent pass rate. We are doing everything we can and within our powers. I want to assure the august House that we are running several workshops all over to try and improve these pass rates. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you very much Hon. Minister for such as explanation.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education about CALA, which has now been ongoing for quite some time, is it useful or not or you expect to review it or remove it because a lot of parents are struggling to meet the requirements of CALA?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Mr. President. The issue of CALA was addressed earlier, however, let me add some more flesh to it. CALA is not really a subject area, it is an assessment area; we call it Continuous Assessment Learning Area. The question is, do we see it as valuable in the system? We find it very useful because it then assists in the teaching of critical thinking of our children, our children must be trained to critically think.
Secondly, they must learn to be innovative and must be given tasks to find solutions to problems within communities. It also trains our students the skill of enquiry to keep asking questions to know more and for that reason, we find it quite useful. I stated earlier that we are trying to depart from a model where our children are only taught to remember. Which is the longest river in Africa? When they say, the Nile River, we say, very good you have passed. We are trying to run away from that.
We give assignments to our children to say, go home and enquire about this phenomenon? For example, in one area you may find that there are a lot of jackals, what can be done? What is the problem with jackals? Then they can enquire how we can curb the problem. So, these are problem solving skills that we are trying to inculcate in our children. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Thank you Hon. Minister. Hon. Senators, we have been joined by the Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, in case you have questions directed to him.
HON. SEN. NDIWENI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Moyo. Last term, there are piles of questionnaires called, Profiling Kits that we were made to complete…
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order, you are not connected Hon. Senator – [HON. SEN. NDIWENI: Sorry?] – You are not connected. You may proceed.
HON. SEN. NDIWENI: I was saying there were piles of questionnaire forms that we were made to complete last term called, Profiling Kits where we were asked about the child’s growth, development, health, family setup, religion amongst other questions working with the clinics and teachers for some of the information. What is the ministry hoping to achieve by gathering that information? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Profiling means capturing data about a particular child, a complete data set. What we hope to achieve is to have a complete understanding of the children that we teach so that we can build their profiles as they come into school, grow in the school and as they exit. When they exit the school, we hope to computerise that data so that when they exit as part of a transfer or exit note, we can transmit that information to the next level. We used to call that child study some years back. Those of you who went to school many years back like my Hon. Deputy Minister here who was a teacher, she knows what I am talking about.
When you are going to teach a child successfully, you need to understand every characteristic about that child; their health issues so that you know how to treat them. Sometimes you give them difficult tasks which they cannot manage or they have some health problems then you make them run, they collapse and die and you face a problem. Once you have all that information proffered about the student, then you understand them. Their behavioral traits, who they stay with at home and sometimes you observe weird behaviour, you need to understand why they are behaving in that manner.
You do not necessarily have to go home and ask the parents each time something weird happens. You need to have all that information and then go back to your database to say, okay this child is behaving this way because of that. How can we assist that child? So, it is really meant to understand a child fully so that you can package your teaching programmes to suit that particular child.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Minister of Labour. The pensions that our pensioners are receiving, be they from the private or public sector, are extremely low and they cannot sustain themselves using the pensions. Is Government making any interventions in this regard? If so, what are those interventions?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): I want to thank the Hon. Senator for a good question. The pension funds mostly depend on the contributions which are made by the employees whilst they are at work. However, because of inflation, you find most of the pensioners do not get sufficient funds to sustain their livelihoods but a lot has been happening. Every time there is an increment on the salaries, they also review the pensions. You review the pension contributions because it is based on a certain percentage but when there is inflation, there is always some reviews. Like last time, you find the pension funds in terms of disbursements were slightly increased, so we continue doing that.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. We used to have the feeding scheme in schools but now we are seeing that in some schools, children are still getting food while in others, they are not. Those are the children who will faint because they would have gone to school on an empty stomach. What measures are you putting in place so that this feeding programme is available to children in all schools?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): I think she is talking about school feeding – the home-grown school feeding programme that is run in the country. Yes, some schools are currently feeding their students and others are not. What has been happening is that Government, through the fiscus, provides a budget for school feeding but there have been delays in terms of procurement due to audits to check value for money. I am sure we are all aware about the value for money audits because our pricing system for these tenders should not be different from what obtains in the market but then you find that when tenders are floated, people come up with wild charges.
So, we have been going backwards and forth regarding the procurement of food for school feeding. We have gone through four provinces as of now and we hope we are going to be getting deliveries to schools in those four provinces very shortly. With the other six provinces, we have re-tendered so that we get that value for money that we are looking for. This is the effort that we are doing. Those schools that are feeding now, some of them have been able to secure partners who have assisted them in funding school feeding.
Other institutions have found innovative ways of growing their own food within the school’s environs or the parents are providing for the schools. It is noted that we really need to feed our children because it helps in the retention of students at school and also maintain the health of our students while in school. It is something that we are working on but being slowed down because of procurement processes. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question goes to the Minister of Home Affairs. Hon. Minister, the equipment or let me say tools of trade of police officers seem to be below par. It seems they do not have vehicles and other equipment. What is the cause and what is the Government doing about it?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): I would like to thank Hon. Sen. Mwonzora for such a pertinent question. We are aware of the challenges as Government that the police are facing and before I even proceed, I would like to sincerely thank them for a splendid job that they are doing given the circumstances. I would like to believe that Hon. Senators would subscribe to this statement that they have done a wonderful job to maintain peace and security in the country in the circumstances and we want to applaud them. However, Government is seized with the issue that has just been raised to ensure that our police are well-equipped.
Talking of vehicles, yes, we are aware that they do not have the vehicles that they would require but I can assure you that the Government, through the direction of the President, Dr. Emmerson Mnangagwa, has already embarked on that exercise to retool them in that regard. Treasury has already made arrangements to procure, in fact, they have already procured vehicles for them which we have already started receiving. We received the first batch and we are in the process of receiving more. Incidentally, we were in a meeting this afternoon with the officials from the Ministry of Finance to finalise purchases of other equipment that they require. So, I can assure the Hon. Senators that Government is aware and is seized with the matter. We should start seeing some changes in the near future. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In 2013, we adopted a Constitution which provided for devolution and the establishment of provincial councils. People were elected in provincial councils in 2013 but they were not sworn in. In 2018, they were elected also in provincial councils but up to now, they have not been operationalised. We are going to a third election after this important phenomenon came to our political and constitutional landscape. Is there any commitment on the part of Government to implement devolution and in particular, to make provincial councils work? If so, what are the plans?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Hon. Sen. Mwonzora for that question which has been asked so many times in both Houses. When we did the elections in 2018, it was in anticipation that the Bill would have sailed through but it had not gone through. We started working on the Bill to align it to the 2013 Constitution and I am happy to say the Bill is in the Attorney-General’s office, and they are trying to speed it up so that it will sail through before the elections. If you noticed, we have not even finalised on the quota system for the female councillors and it is also enshrined in that Bill. We are speeding it up so that it will be completed before we embark on the 2023 elections.
Also, on the devolution issue, for us to make sure that it was in use, we are trying to satisfy Chapter 301 of the Constitution where we have to disburse 5% of the GDP. We had to make sure that it goes on to the ground and the only way we could do that was through the local authorities. Rest assured Hon. Senator that before we go to the 2023 elections, we should have the Bill signed, I hope.
HON. SEN. MWONZORA: Hon. Minister, I do appreciate the answer that you have given to this question. Maybe you may want to shed light for the benefit of Zimbabweans on why it has taken 10 years after the Constitution came into operation to draft that law. Why has it taken that record time?
HON. CHOMBO: You know, after the 2013 amendment of the Constitution, we had a lot of laws that were supposed to be aligned and this one definitely is one of them. We had the Urban Councils, Traditional Leaders and a lot of them. So, it is not that we have neglected that one. It is also important but it is only that we depend on the Houses when they sit for us to be able to make sure that it sails through. There is a lot that is involved. We have to do the consultations, principles and so forth to get them approved by Cabinet.
I know we have not done it with the speed that you would accept but we have tried our level best. Also, there has been limitation of staff at the Attorney General’s office but I think from what the Minister of Justice has been saying, they got a green light to recruit more staff to make sure that they speed it up. So, very soon I think it will sail through. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare. Now that elections are approaching, what assurance does the Government have on NGOs that they will not destabilise the country through influencing our people?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE, LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE (HON. MATUKE): Matters to do with NGOs and how they work when we are looking at elections, I believe that you are aware that we had an exercise prior, where a lot of NGOs were no longer operating according to their mandate. We had that problem. The registration would say something different from what is obtaining on the ground and being done by the NGOs. We saw that they had deviated from their mandates and most of these NGOs failed when it came to re-registration. We also had a problem of NGOs operating without registering in that the registration would have expired but they would continue operating without interfering with our nation. Those who would have deviated from their mandate we are looking for them. If there are NGOs who are going against their mandate, kindly let us know so that we cancel their licences. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that time for Questions Without Notice be extended by fifteen minutes.
HON. SEN. CHINAKE: I second.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I would like to commend the Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities on its work of trying to ensure that our employees will have decent accommodation. Is there any priority for the uniformed forces to get accommodation, especially those who do not have houses in the barracks?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO) on behalf of THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL HOUSING AND SOCIAL AMENITIES: Thank you Mr. President and I thank the Hon. Sen. Tongogara for such a pertinent question. The Hon. Sen. is much concerned and worried about our security personnel in terms of accommodation.
The Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities is preparing homes for everyone, we have priorities and programs set aside for each sector. We toured the police staff quarters, and barracks for soldiers as well as teachers. If you go to Tomlinson depot, you will find there are flats under construction and are at 97% completion. We are putting all efforts and resources to construct more barracks for our uniformed forces.
The land developers give 10% of every land that they develop to the Ministry of National Housing. So that is the land set aside to construct flats for our government workers. Therefore, I would like to assure the Hon. Sen. that the Government, through the National Housing Ministry is prioritizing residential places for our civil servants. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHINAKE: Our Government hospitals are running out of medicines all over the country, and people are now using private pharmacies. What are the measures being taken by the government to correct this situation?
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Hon. Senator for the important question that you have raised. For a long time, our country has been experiencing a shortage of foreign currency because our industries were not performing.
However, I would like to commend the Second Republic, led by His Excellency Hon. E.D Mnangagwa which came in and alleviated the situation. We are now seeing a lot of changes happening in terms of stabilizing the economy that will also lead to the re-stocking of medicines in our hospitals.
We used to import medication because of lack of enough foreign currency due to a lot of challenges. However, since the inception of the Second Republic, a lot of things are being done in the country. Just yesterday, the Hon. Vice President Chiwenga spoke of a programme that our country will be cooperating with Egypt on manufacturing medicines in our country. So in short, the Government is cooperating with other developed countries, and India is one of those countries assisting us to manufacture our own medicines. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. I understand as a Ministry you are in charge of the councillors and local authorities both the rural and urban, they were all given road equipment. We observe that our state of the roads continues to deteriorate. I do not know what has happened to that equipment, whether they are still keeping it. Wherever we come from, there is no action being taken by these local authorities. I am aware that they have budgets that they make as local authorities which they further submit to the ministry for approval. These budgets include road maintenance in their areas.
I once submitted a question in this august House to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. He said indeed, his ministry gave local authorities all the road maintenance equipment but they have not taken any action up to now. Mr. President, I want to find out from the Minister of Local Government and Public Works what exactly is happening with the equipment that they were given by the Ministry of Local Government and Public Works? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. I would also like to thank Hon. Sen. Chirongoma for that question. Indeed, it is true that our rural roads are in a bad state but I would like to take him back a bit to consider all the accidents and disasters that happened such as floods. We were unable to catchup with the requirements of maintaining our roads after such disasters.
I agree that the local authorities have since received equipment for road maintenance but the thing is, the equipment is not yet enough. Right now, if you go to the rural areas, you will realise that there is a difference after we recommended that they use devolution funds as well as funds that are coming from ZINARA. A fortnight ago, we had a workshop and we informed them on how those funds are supposed to be used. So, you will see a difference in terms of use of funds and progress in the local authorities.
Even in the City of Harare, you will also realise that they will be able to collect garbage fortnightly. Very soon, you will see a change in service delivery both in the rural and urban areas. I thank you.
+HON. SEN. NKOMO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. My question is with regards to traditional leaders. Recently, we realised that traditional leaders were being vetted following a promise that they say was made by Government regarding their welfare. My question to the Deputy Minister of Local Government is, is anything being done with regards to the welfare of traditional leaders? Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN. KAMBIZI): I hope you understood the language Hon. Minister.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): I understood just a bit Mr. President.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators, can somebody translate the question from Hon. Sen. Nkomo so that the Hon. Minister can respond? Is anybody prepared to translate? Can you repeat your question Hon. Sen. Nkomo?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. MAVHUNGU-MABOYI): The Hon. Senator was referring to the vetting exercise that is taking place to the local leadership, that is, the chiefs and headmen. What is it all about? Are you preparing to give them benefits? Is the vetting exercise meant to ensure that they get benefits?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Hon. Mavhungu and thank you very much Hon. Sen. Nkomo for asking that very pertinent question concerning the welfare of our traditional leaders.
The welfare of traditional leaders is an issue that has been at the forefront of my department of traditional leadership. We reviewed the packages for the village heads whereby they are now getting a component of their salaries in United States Dollars and also in the local currency; that figure has been back dated. It is about USD50.00 per village head and it is back dated to May, 2022. Correct me, if I am wrong, but they should have start receiving that money end of last month.
Also, we have had a lot of village heads, due to the resuscitation that has not passed through the Constitution. We have had some village heads who had not been accredited so there has been discrepancies in paying them because we only pay those who have been accredited by their village headmen and chiefs. So, there is that discrepancy whereby some of the village heads would say that they are not receiving their salaries and yet they are not accredited in our offices.
Concerning the headmen, we have had a review and forwarded the request up the ladder. We are yet to receive confirmation but in general, we have improved the welfare of traditional leaders in terms of their health. We have a package for medical health, it is coming on board and also the general welfare of the traditional leadership. We are still a long way but we are trying our best level as Government. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE, in terms of Stading Order No. 67.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1 to 2 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on sustainable healthcare system in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed
HON. SEN. SIAPNI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. NKOMO: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Fourth order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the sustainable management of waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on measures to combat human trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIEF NHEMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I would like to thank the Zimbabwean delegation led by the Speaker of Parliament who attended the meeting. It is so pleasing to us as a nation because those are important forums where we meet other nations to discuss important issues to do with our countries.
In the report, 120 countries were represented and the Speakers of Parliaments were 45, and 250 were delegates to that meeting. It shows that it was a very important meeting.
Mr. President, I would like to thank Advocate J. F. N. Mudenda who spoke and highlighted all the good things that have been achieved by the Parliament of Zimbabwe that includes the Gender Policy of Zimbabwe. We know that issues to do with Gender are where we talk of creating equal opportunities for women and men. It really shows that that policy has worked very well because we were allocated 60 seats for the Women’s quota in the National Assembly. This time around 60 seats of the quota system will be in the constitution until 2030 and that proves that our country is determined to promote women.
According to this quota system, it is admired very much by other countries when we meet them and they believe it is a very important step whereby we have equal representation through this quota system. Our women are also allowed to contest in other constituencies besides the quota system. So, I would like to applaud the step that was taken.
We also have the Women’s Parliamentary Caucus chaired by Hon. Kwaramba which started in 2021, it is mainly seized with women’s issues. We also have the Marriages Act that was enacted in 2022, it outlaws the marriages of minors. This is a good law as it protects the girl child from entering into early marriages. I observe that in most of the communities, child marriages are still prevalent. As parliamentarians, it is our duty to educate our people that the girl child has a right to go to school and when she becomes of majority age, she then can choose to get married. Our work is cut out for us. The Government has also come up with the one-third quota system for women representation in local authorities. There is still a lot of work to be done in that area, since the majority of our women have not yet accepted this new reality.
I will now turn to the issue of young women parliamentarians, this is a step in the right direction, because we are now getting old and should be in a position to pass on the baton to these young women. I also observed that the International Parliamentary Union (IPU) is doing a good job by encouraging young women to be Members of Parliament. We should afford them this opportunity to become Members of Parliament so that they will smoothly take over from us. We also thank the Parliament of Zimbabwe for the good work that it is doing as regards women’s issues. With these few words, I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this important report tabled by Hon. Sen. Muzenda about the International Parliamentary Union (IPU) which was held in Kigali.
Mr. President, I am pleased that as a country, if such meetings are held, we are represented by our senior parliamentarians. It helps us much as the delegation is ably led by the Hon. Speaker of Parliament. It shows the competitive advantage that Zimbabwe has as a country at such fora. It is also important to note that since we now live in a global village, attendance at such meetings ensures that our country is not left behind and as a result, we are putting Zimbabwe on the global map.
The majority of the emerging issues that were discussed touched on how best to resolve the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Such conflict has a tendency to displace the inhabitants of the countries that are at war. Hence you see the emerging of refugees who flee their countries to seek refuge in other countries. The report also highlighted that for peace to prevail, the majority of Members of Parliament should be women…
THE ACTING PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Order, order.
An Hon. Senator having passed between the Chair and the Hon. Senator on the floor.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I was saying that the hosts of the meeting, Kigali has 61% women parliamentarians and this is no mean achievement. It means that they are working very hard and they appreciate and value the role of the women folk, because women are very important since every child is borne of a woman, whether one is a president or in any other profession. Whenever there are conflicts, it is the women who suffer most.
Section 17 of our Constitution states that there should be gender balance in Zimbabwean society in all tiers of Government institutions and agencies. As women, we are advocating for the amendment of that section so that there will be Acts that will align with the Constitution. The Hon. Speaker and the President of Senate launched the Parliamentary Youth Forum, it bodes well for the future. Since we believe in the old adage - catch them young because when the head of Parliament consented to the proposals at that meeting, it surely shows that we are moving in the right direction.
Mr. President, there was also talk about human trafficking. It is now a problem and we have a motion in this House of which one of the causes is conflict. There are always wars in many countries and that leads to trafficking of people. There are also human rights abuses as a result because all what people will be thinking is to kill the neighbour. So there is no peace in that country.
Mr. President, I really would like to applaud this report and thank the Government for ensuring that when there is such a big opportunity, we do not remain behind but we are also among the progressive countries that will be admired by other countries. I would like to thank you Mr. President for giving me this opportunity.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 by-elections.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
On the motion of HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, seconded by HON. SEN. TONGOGARA, the Senate adjourned at a Quarter past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 16th May, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 10th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
PETITIONS RECEIVED FROM SAM PARIRENYATWA, DAVID WHITEHEAD TEXTILES WORKERS, MEDIA ALLIANCE ZIMBABWE AND GODFREY GONESE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that during the month of April, 2023, Parliament received the following petitions:
A petition from Sam Parirenyatwa of Subdivision 17, Danbury Park Farm, Mazowe, requesting Parliament to protect the Constitution and national interest by bringing Government to account for the deplorable and now inaccessible external shrines in Zambia and Mozambique where veterans of the liberation struggle were buried. The petition further requested Parliament to ensure that provincial and district Heroes’ Acres are maintained and that a budget is allocated to support the dependants of the deceased veterans of the Liberation Struggle. The petition has since been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Home Affairs.
Another petition from former David Whitehead Textile workers requesting Parliament to ensure that David Whitehead Textiles honours its obligations in terms of the labour rights. The petition was deemed inadmissible and the petitioners were advised accordingly.
Petition from Media Alliance Zimbabwe requesting Parliament to summon the owner of the Twitter account Tinoedza Dzimwe over cyber bullying and threats against journalists on social media. The petition was deemed inadmissible and the petitioners were informed accordingly.
Petition from Mr. Godfrey Gonese of Roraima Farm requesting Parliament to engage the Executive on the restoration of the title deeds for rural land after being dispossessed of their land in 2000 by the State without compensation. The petition was deemed inadmissible and the petitioners were advised accordingly - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Can you listen to what I am saying please.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
I have the following apologies from the Executive:- Dr. C. D. G. N. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care; Hon. S. Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce; Hon. K. Coventry, Minister of Youths, Sport, Arts and Recreation; Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs; Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance and Economic Development; Hon. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities; Hon. Soda, Minister of Energy and Power Development; Hon. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Hon. Matuke, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare; Hon. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development.
May I address myself to the Hon. Leader of Government Business. There are Ministers who are perennially now giving apologies and although it is their right to give apologies, that right should not be abused. They have a responsibility to be in the House to answer questions from the Hon. Members. That is one observation.
The second observation where a full Cabinet Minister is absent and there is a Deputy Minister, the Deputy Minister must be available at all times in terms of Section 107 (2) of the Constitution. Those are the two observations Hon. Leader of Government Business. If you could kindly bring this to the attention of your colleagues.
HON. T. MLISWA: Good afternoon Hon. Speaker. My point of order emanates from your very important message to the leader of Government Business pertaining to the Ministers. I do not know if it is possible for this Parliament to come up with a list for the public, of the number of the Ministers who attend and those that are absent because we come from the people. The people must know how we are performing. It is taxpayers’ money.
So I propose that there be a list of every Minister’s attendance, where they would have asked for leave of absence, be put there equally and the Members of Parliament so that the nation is able to understand who is working and who is not working. Those who are absent with leave, people would know that. That would actually help. That would be my proposal to you. I think you have done enough. We belong to the people; we are from the people and the country must be informed on the performance of the people that they elected. The President does his bit and Ministers are expected to stick to the mandate they are given by the President to make sure that the Executive is strong. That would be my proposal.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. On your Order Paper, there is a list of Members who are present. If you check with your gadget, you will see that. Also, in the Hansard, we do record the Ministers who are present and those who have tendered their apologies. Perhaps through your point of order, the public is encouraged to open our website and they will follow our Hansard and the Votes and Proceedings of the National Assembly in terms of the Order Paper.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. MUGADZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Why should there not be a policy which stipulates that should schools open mid-month, parents be allowed or given up to the end of that month to square up school fees, those who are not able to meet that deadline be allowed to make payment plans? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the question. First of all, when schools open, if parents do not have the money at hand, they are allowed to make payment plans with the school authorities.
However, in the case of boarding schools where schools supply like food and other necessary requirements, we encourage parents to pay schools fees before schools open to enable the procurement of supplies in bulk to sustain the students whilst at boarding facilities. However, in all cases the policy is there. Parents make payment plans with the school authorities. It is also important to note that when these payment plans are made, they must also be honoured by the parents. I thank you.
HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker for recognising me. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is; is there a Government policy that deters schools from turning away students? Just this week when schools opened, some students were turned away on the very first day. Are there penalties to deal with those schools that defy Government policy?
HON. E. MOYO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Schools are not allowed to send away students. The contract of school fees payment is between the school and the parents and not the students. Where schools are sending away children who have not paid fees, there are penalties. The penalty is a charge that is attracted by that action. As I speak, yesterday we got information that some schools here in Harare sent away children who had not paid fees and this morning our officers were in those schools where we expect charges to be preferred against the culprits.
Hon. Zwizwai having shouted supplementary.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Zwizwai, if you want to ask a supplementary question, please do so; do not shout.
Hon. Zwizwai having started contributing without the Hon. Speaker’s permission.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have not recognised you. Please do not embellish my ruling.
Hon. Nyabani having asked a new question instead of a supplementary question. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Your colleagues are helping you. We are still on supplementary questions. Hon. Nyabani, recollect yourself.
HON. CHINYANGANYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My supplementary question is directed…
Hon. Chasi having been standing and chatting to another Hon. Member.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Chasi, you cannot be up standing when another Hon. Member is holding the floor. There is space there, why do you not sit down and whisper to your colleague?
HON. CHINYANGANYA: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that this issue of turning away students and pupils is rampant across the country. It seems as if the headmasters and school authorities are not aware of this policy. Is this policy in their offices or it is just at the Head Office, because if it was in the headmaster’s offices, I am sure they would really be adhering to this policy? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Member for the supplementary question. That policy is given to all schools and as I speak, last week before schools open, we reissued these circulars where we find we are always having problems with schools so that we try and correct this situation. We have also encouraged our PEDs. There is a circular, this morning we were having a round robbing with professional institution directors on the same issue so that they send out teams to schools to curb this malpractice by school heads.
If those cases are reported to us, we take corrective measures like I have already indicated – I may not name the schools in Harare where we sent officers this morning to go and interview the children, interview the teachers, the heads, with a view of preferring charges on those headmasters. So, we could be held by this House to send in information. Yesterday I received one Hon. Senator who brought that information and we sent people there and charges are already being preferred against that kind of head.
When I say charges, I am referring to disciplinary processes where we prefer a charge and say in terms of this section, you have committed an act of misconduct. The sections are in terms of Statutory Instrument 1 of 2000. I may not off hand, without the Statutory Instrument, refer to the specific clause of the Statutory Instrument. Thank you.
HON. MURAI: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Minister is that in 2008, 2013, 2018 towards elections, the Government came up with a policy that there shall be free education for all. Now, I am deeply disturbed that the Minister is saying we must come up with a payment plan for school fees when it is on record that the Government said there must be free education for all. Can the Hon. Minister clarify on that? Where is the free education for all Hon. Minister?
HON. E. MOYO: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker Sir. I am sure he is referring to Section 75 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe subsection 1 (a) and (b) of the Constitution…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order Hon. Minister. Hon. Members on my left, Hon. Zwizwai and Hon. Chibaya, you listen to the answer. If you do not agree with the answer, Hon. Zwizwai do not interrupt me or I will discharge you. Thank you.
HON. E. MOYO: I will restate that again that in terms of Section 75 of the Constitution, there is provision for State funded education and not free education. Subsection 1 (a) and (b) speak to the qualifications of one to benefit from State funded education and it speaks to primary and secondary students and further education in subsection 1 (b). Subsection 4 of the Constitution then speaks to how that is going to be realized and it says, I may not say the words verbatim but the import of subsection 4 says that the Government shall take reasonable legislative measures or otherwise, within the limit thereof of its resources to realise the provision of subsection 1. That is what we are doing and what we have done is that two districts per province, as pilot projects for that exercise, have been identified and Government is fully paying for all schools in those two districts for all the provinces.
There is also BEAM – last year it paid for 1.5 million children and this year the target is 1.8 million children. Those children under BEAM, if they fall under the category of examinations - Grade 7, Form 4 and Form 6, their fees are wholly paid by Government. We also have those children who may not be under BEAM but who qualify to be BEAM beneficiaries, are also covered for their examination fees.
Further to that, those children who may not fall within those categories but wish to write Grade 7, O’ level and A’ level examinations and may not have the means to do so, we are currently up to this Friday enlisting the names of such children for onward transmission to ZIMSEC so that they are registered and Government pays for them. That is how far State funded education has gone to date. Thank you.
Hon. Murai having stood to make another supplementary question
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, the Hon. Minister referred to the supreme law of the land which overrides whatever other subsidiary legislation comes to. So, the Minister’s response has been extremely comprehensive.
HON. TEKESHE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
*HON. TEKESHE: My point of order is, this question is asked every term when schools open. A few months ago, you said the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Public Service must come together regarding the judgement that was done 10 years ago. This judgement was passed but the Ministry of Primary and Secondary Education is failing to implement that judgement. If a ministry cannot implement a High Court judgement, then who else will they listen to? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your point of order is administrative and I am sure the Hon. Deputy Minister has taken note. What is missing here is the process of how to raise alarm with the ministry where there is lack of adherence to the ministerial policy as far as the payment of fees is concerned. I think there must be some process so that if in school A there is that problem, where do they go first and foremost, to report so that the ministry can act expeditiously.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, I will speak in vernacular for the good of the people of Chegutu. When will the Government pilot project ‘reach Chegutu’ in terms of assisting vulnerable children who cannot afford to pay fees?
*THE HON. SPEAKER: We are not talking about constituencies; we are talking of problems facing all schools in the country. You should have listened to what the Hon. Deputy Minister said. You must read Article 75 subsection (4) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, you will find the answer there.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Chii chamuka Hon. T. Mliswa. Shumba haifanire kuvhura maziso zvakanyanya.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, shumba yazongomuka payanga yakarara ikaona Nyathi. I think the issue here is just more than the education sector, I think we must accept that we might be lying here if we are saying that this is happening in our constituencies and we do not understand it. We have understood it to a point where we actually sympathise with the headmasters and the teachers. That is the reality on the ground because there are no resources and they are relying on school fees. Relying on the school fees is a broader aspect of the economy to be honest with you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, this is not a general debate. Whilst you are saying very substantial issues but this is not a general debate.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir and I will end by saying this is a broader picture of the economy and it would have been good for the Hon. Minister of Finance, on an important day like this, to respond to all these issues. You know yesterday I spoke about inflation and all that and today he is not here.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, you have answered yourself. Why not reserve your observations for a day when the Hon. Minister of Finance presents his policy as you requested yesterday? Reserve that energy.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I stand guided.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me this opportunity. My question goes to the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, in his absence the Leader of the House. We heard about gold coins, now we are hearing about gold tokens. I wanted to be enlightened how these gold coins and gold tokens work. In rural areas, we are not aware of this even when we go to our constituencies, we are not able to explain to the people.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nyabani. You ask that question to the Hon. Minister of Finance when he comes to the House.
*HON. NYABANI: He might fail to come.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: I have summoned him to come, he will do so.
HON. NYABANI: I am asking that he does that soonest.
HON. CHIDAKWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I am directing my question to the Hon. Minister of Mines and Mining Development. If he is not in, I will redirect it to the Leader of Government Business. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Mines and Mining Development is when is Zimbabwe going to ratify the African Mines statutes because ratifying this centre will play a key role in assisting Government in implementing the African Mining Development. Given that Zimbabwe is also in the process of aligning its mining laws, when are we going to ratify the African Mining Development Centre Statute as Zimbabwe? Thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is a protocol, I will ask the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade to respond.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MUSABAYANA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for a very important question. However, I feel it is a bit specific. I will check how far we are gone in terms of the procedures that are supposed to be followed before we ratify that Treaty. As a Ministry, we stand ready to bring to Parliament any Treaty that should be ratified, should it qualify the other important statutes that should be satisfied before it is ratified by Parliament. Thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. As a policy of Government, CALA which is an educational activity that demands students to demonstrate and perform their understanding and have knowledge of the subject they are learning, it contributes 30% to the overall marks of a child. As a policy, it requires children to carry more than nine books in a satchel - we are talking here about primary school children. If you see them carrying those bags going to school, you feel sorry for them that this might have an effect on their backs.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is the question Hon. Madzimure?
HON. MADZIMURE: How is the Ministry going to streamline the subjects so that children carry manageable loads when going to school on a daily basis?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question. Currently we are running a curriculum review process. This week we are finishing the training for people to conduct the reviews. I think, next week on the 16th, that is when we are going to have the national review session which is going to run nationally in all settings. It is there that we expect to receive recommendations from different stakeholders on how to view the entire curriculum including this formative examination situation which we call Continuous Assessment Learning Areas (CALA).
On the issue of packaging the assignments that are given to students, our school heads and teachers have been trained to package the assignments into manageable units not to choke the children by giving them everything at once. If that is happening, it is happening against the policy of Government. We expect them to package the assignment into manageable units so that our children are given a period of time when that activity is taking place. We expect that observations like the Hon. Member has made are brought to the review sessions so that they can be taken on board. If there is need for further training, then that should be planned and conducted. Thank you.
(v)*HON. MASENDA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. School heads are refusing to accept the Zimbabwe dollar, they prefer US dollar only. Again, those accepting local currency, they rate it using the illegal rate.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): In areas where school heads are refusing to accept the Zimbabwe dollar and they only prefer the US dollar, that is illegal. I will repeat again, if that happens, let the parents get in contact with the district schools inspectors so that corrective measures are taken. What I did not say earlier when I spoke about teams that were sent into schools, that is part of the issues that they were going there to investigate. We are already talking to the Ministry of Finance and the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe on measures to be taken to correct those things. I may not speak about them here because they are still under discussion but we are very much alive to that situation. We wonder what the interest is in heads who do not want to accept the Zimbabwe dollar as legal tender in their schools when the laws of the land are very clear. We want to take this opportunity to warn them to say that there must not be a reason for stern measures against schools. They have to comply - the issues of compliance were discussed here and we have to find ways of strengthening our statutes to ensure total compliance by our officers on the ground. That is not allowed not, to accept any legal tender in the country. A circular was sent together with the other circulars I spoke about, actually there is a section on the circulars on the issue of the currencies to be accepted in schools. I thank you.
HON. MUSHORIWA: My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is that if indeed the policy of the Government is to say the local currency has to be accepted, what measures is the Government taking in terms of making sure that schools continue to function? I am saying this because the fact that our dollar has been losing value and the schools tend to procure whatever they want for the schools using the illegal market rate in the shops, what measures have they put in place for the schools to continue functioning? What is Government doing to support all the schools so that at least the education system is not affected?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That question titillates on inflationary pressures, the original question is whether schools demand payment of fees in US dollars and rejecting Zimbabwe dollar.
HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for recognizing me. I want to also highlight to the Hon. Minister that yesterday I visited a school in my constituency in Mufakose and I was informed that they are requested to charge school fees in USD…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, we are dealing with national issues. Can you revert to the question that was asked originally?
HON. HAMAUSWA: There are reports in some parts of this country that the Ministry actually approved school fees to be pegged in USD. What is the response from the Ministry?
HON. E. MOYO: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I think we have to make a distinction between what is approved and what it means. We allowed schools to peg their fees in USD but if a parent wants to pay in ZWL, they use the prevailing interbank rate on the date of payment. Approving the fees being paid in USD does not imply that then it is the USD that must be paid only and no other currency. It was done so that the frequency of applications for approval to raise fees is reduced because the rate of inflation on the Zimbabwean dollar is quite high. However, in terms of payments, parents pay using the locally accepted currencies they have and that is the position.
HON. T. MLISWA: Indeed, the Ministry of Education has allowed school fees to be paid in USD. If the School Development Committee sits down and makes a resolution at a meeting that school fees must be paid in USD, it is a resolution. Can any parent go against that and pay in ZWL when there is that resolution, especially with this new instruction that they have passed that school fees must be paid in USD?
THE HON. SPEAKER: With all due respect Hon. Mliswa, as lawmakers, the law is above the resolution of a school council, so it is null and void.
HON. MUSHORIWA: The SDCs are a creature of law, there is a Statutory Instrument that establishes the SDCs to run the affairs of the school…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, consult Hon. Biti for guidance.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Why are you pegging school fees in foreign currency as if we do not have our own currency? You cannot blame the public when they are accusing you of pegging school fees in USD as if our currency is redundant.
THE HON. SPEAKER: May I request Hon. Chinotimba to go and sit down with the Hon. Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to explain fully his question?
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. However, I cannot go and sit down with him to discuss a national issue as if it is a private matter. The Government must not peg school fees in foreign currency…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Chakafukidza dzimba matenga!
HON. BITI: My question is directed to the esteemed Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, and the Leader of Government Business in the Chamber. On Friday, 5th May 2023, there was issued in the Government Gazette, General Notice 635 of 2023, which was made in terms of Section 3 (6) of the Public Procurement and Disposal of Public Assets Act Chapter 22:23. This public proclamation purported to suspend the provisions of the Constitution, in particular Section 315 of the Constitution which says that public procurement must be transparent and also the provisions of Section 4 of the Public Procurement Act, which also says public procurement must be transparent in respect of the acquisition of construction or medicines under the Ministry of Health.
Today, the Office of the President has issued a statement disowning that Statutory Instrument. My question to the esteemed Minister is; on what basis does an arm of Government issue a Statutory Instrument which is not authorized by your Ministry and by the Attorney General’s office, by the Attorney General himself? Is that not a form of a legal coup d’etat? How can that be allowed and how did that happen? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Leader of Government Business, deal with the coup that has dissipated. – [Laughter.] –
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Mr. Speaker, Hon. Biti stated what the President indicated and he indicated that we are investigating how it happened. So, I cannot comment further than that; everything that he said, he actually repeated what His Excellency the President said in the statement that was issued earlier. The issue is being investigated and once the investigations are completed, we will be able to issue another statement. I thank you. – [HON. BITI: Supplementary! Supplementary!] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: There cannot be any supplementary. Hon. Biti, do not flog a dead horse. Hon. Biti! Hon. Biti…
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker, in future, someone can actually suspend the Government through statements like that. It is a serious matter Mr. Speaker. It is a constitutional coup Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, just a second. When you are driving in four forward gears and are just to hit a tree, you apply your brakes - right? The most sensible thing is to apply your reverse gear and come back to the correct route – that has been done. – [AN HON. MEMBER: So ndivo vanga vazviita!] –
HON. MARKHAM: Good afternoon Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is following two issues of the importation. The first one was the importation of fire tenders into this country or supposed importation of fire tenders from Belarus and I do not think that there is anyone in this House who knows how many or how much, when they are going to be paid and when they are going to arrive.
The second one is also from Belarus. There are thousands of tractors in my constituency that are being distributed from Belarus and none of us here know anything about that contract. Could the two Hon. Ministers indulge us, either with the contracts or the general concept of borrowing or buying tractors from Belarus with no accountability or transparency to this House? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: That is a specific question that requires your written approach and allow the respective ministers to answer accordingly. In terms of procurement, I think that would be in the purview of the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. So, why do you not put it in writing for next week?
HON. CHASI: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. I wish to begin by commending the Hon. Minister for the great work that he is doing.
I ask this question as the expiring Member of Parliament for Mazowe South – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Maybe expired. I am aware that Government came up with a very great programme concerning the development of rural roads and I want to commend Government for that. I would like to know from the Hon. Minister whether this programme has actually taken off and if so, when we can expect it to arrive in Mazowe? I say this Ma’am Speaker because there is no longer public transport in the form of buses in Mazowe. You get to Gweshe, if you want to go to Kanyemba, Shopo, Shutu, transporters have now refused to ply that route. Even if you have a 4 x 4, you cannot use those roads.
So, there has been an exponential growth in the number of vehicles in the rural areas. The damage is huge and I would like first of all, to appeal to the Hon. Minister to please do something because the population in Mazowe South in particular where I have expired, people are now having to walk distances …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chasi, please may you go straight to your question without debating?
HON. CHASI: I am certainly going to do that before I expire Madam Speaker. People who were walking 100 metres to get to the bus stop are now having to walk 10kms to catch a bus, and they wake up at one o’clock a.m. This is a desperate appeal to Government.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker! With due respect, it is a good question but it is a specific question as it talks about Mazowe South. I think let him put it in black and white and let him be answered. It is very specific. All these issues are about Mazowe South and since he has expired, he needs to make sure it is done. So, I think it would be good for it to be in black and white as well. It is a very specific question because I will also get up and say in Norton, this road is not done and others will get up and so forth. It is purely specific and I think it needs to be put in black and white. I also think that Hon. Mhona will make a good response of that and maybe knowing him, he will probably go on the ground and speak to his expired colleague and Member of Parliament.
HON. CHASI: Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member of Parliament may be correct but I think it is in your province to make that ruling.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chasi thank you for that question. Hon. Mliswa is right that it is a specific question. You need to put that in writing so that the Hon. Minister will make some investigations and come to this House with the response - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Order please! Hon. Chibaya order!
HON. CHIBAYA: Maybe I should then ask a more generalised question. When can we expect the Rapid Rural Roads Programme to come to Mazowe or to any rural area because we have not seen it there? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURUAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Before this august House Hon. Madam Speaker, I was requested to bring a Ministerial Statement on the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme and with the indulgence of the House, next week I will table the same which will then address some of the concerns raised by the Hon. Member. Just to address his question Hon. Chasi talked about the rural programme - to appraise the august House of the architecture of road authorities in this country, we have got the Department of Roads, local authorities, rural district councils and DDF which is now known as REDA.
Normally, 90% of roads in rural constituencies are under the purview of rural district council and REDA but now because of the declaration of the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme, we have assumed the role of making sure that we also follow up with these road authorities. I am happy that this august House must take note that we have got equipment within the various rural district councils that is lying idle because of lack of fuel and I want to say to my fellow Hon. Members, it is high time we must also rehabilitate our roads, make sure we do the regravelling, the rehabilitation, whatever we can do using the equipment that we have.
What I am appealing to the Hon. Members is a list of the equipment that they have in their jurisdictions, whether it is under REDA or it is under rural district council, so that we now furnish and give them fuel so that they take charge of some of these roads. Some of the roads just need grading and regravelling. So, we are appealing now to my fellow Hon. Members to say let us work together on this particular disaster that we have of roads that are not trafficable.
It is my humble plea to say in terms of what we have because of devolution funds, I am sure others managed to buy whether they are tippers or graders. So let us make use of the available equipment as we speak so that we do not need to wait for Government, but above all, I will table a number of roads we are also superintending under the Emergency Road Rehabilitation Programme in some of the constituencies. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is there was a programme on the Road Rehabilitation that had been suspended last year because local contractors had not been paid. As a result, work on roads that were under rehabilitation such as Kawi and Pleasant Valley had been stopped. Can the Minister update us on the current situation? Were the local contractors paid and when should we expect the rehabilitation of those roads to continue? I thank you.
*HON. MHONA: What the Hon. Member has just said is true. Last month there had been discussion on this issue and it was agreed that there would be a reevaluation of the charges charged by these local contractors where it would be looked into to see if the Government was receiving its value for money and if they were charging fairly. As a result, many companies had to stop operations because of this programme. The programme went on well that at the end of last year, most of the companies reviewed their charges to see if they were charging fairly according to the work they were doing on the roads.
I would like to remind Hon. Members that Parliament is responsible for allocating resources to the Ministry through the budget. I would urge Hon. Members to ensure that they allocate enough resources to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructural Development so that the Ministry can carry out its mandate of road rehabilitation.
Going forward, the Ministry is not starting work on new roads but rather we are committed to finishing the work on those roads where work had been stopped. So you will see the continuation of work on those roads after which we will move on to new roads.
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Last year in this august House, the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development, Hon. Mhona, indicated some of the roads that would be rehabilitated. The people back in Mukoba constituency whom I represent in this House would be eagerly awaiting the rehabilitation of their roads and therefore the Minister should report back to the House on the progress made on those roads so far. I appeal to the Minister to give us the progress made to date on those roads. I thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Madam Speaker. Some of the questions on issues that are asked in this House, I would have held discussions and consultations with some Hon. Members and provisional road engineers within my Ministry. It is the Ministry’s wish, especially pertaining to the residents of Mkoba 12, as Hon. Chibaya has mentioned that he would be representing them in the House, that the roads be tarred but it was agreed that we would first re-gravel the roads so that they are passable. I would however like to inform you that we will be coming to tar those roads. It is your right as Hon. Members to come and appeal to us that there are roads within your areas that need to be fixed and we as a Ministry, will make sure that those roads are rehabilitated. We may fail to tar them as you would have us do but we want our roads to be passable.
As a Ministry, we appreciate those questions that those roads be passable. All those with such questions on roads - most of them, I will be aware of because most Hon. Members normally notify me, even through cellphones. I want to assure you that such roads – all Hon. Members who are concerned about roads in their areas which were done but dumped before completion, we will start with those roads before we do new roads. I thank you
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Good afternoon Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister of Transport is: what is going to happen to certain companies which were awarded tenders to do certain roads but they did a shoddy job? The road has not even been completed in a year but it is already damaged. These people were already paid for the job but the state of the road is so bad. The construction was substandard because they did not have the required equipment. How do you work with such companies? They are given tenders but they have no knowledge of road construction. Now, other companies are going to be contracted to complete such roads. Some of those people are relatives of people that are well known by Government top officials.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Mutseyami for that question on road construction. We used to have such problems where some people were contracted to do road construction without going deeper to check whether they have knowledge of proper road construction. It was learnt that those people would later subcontract other companies to do the job and also those would not be knowledgeable on road construction; they had no proper equipment which led to poorly done roads.
Now, together with ZINARA, we gather with all local authorities to verify if those who are being contracted are the right people with requisite knowledge to carry out the work. On our side, no one is going to be given money before satisfactorily completing the road. That has to be clear to all contractors. After a company is contracted, the Ministry officials will follow up before payment to check whether the company has done a perfect job. I agree that it happens that some people contract people who do not have knowledge on the work to be done but I promise that this will never happen, especially on the issue of infrastructure.
We know that in Mutare, there is a road which has a problem. When it is hot, the road surface appears as if it is about to melt but I promise you, this will not continue to happen because we will be following up on all jobs of the Ministry. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. This question arises after the directive of the Hon. Speaker, yesterday where I spoke about a judgement which was handed down by Justice Chitapi on 24th December, 2019. The applicants were Godfrey Mhihwa and other 105 vendors from Chegutu. The respondents were the Municipality of Chegutu and Officer Commanding, Zimbabwe Republic Police of Chegutu. So the Hon. Speaker directed that this question be asked today and I request that you direct it accordingly Madam Speaker Ma’am.
It follows that if a judgement has been handed down in the High Court and there is no appeal against that judgement in the requisite time, would it please the Hon. Minister of Local Government to both conscientise the relevant municipalities of the judgement which is present and indeed, because it is now a locus standi, and it was a test case, that it cascades to all local authorities that they have no mandate to confiscate the wares of vendors both in Chegutu and indeed in the whole country?
Also, to say to the local authorities, return the wares according to this judgement, if those wares have been confiscated. As we speak, this has to be done in order to avert and completely annihilate the scourge of confiscation of vendors’ wares because Chegutu Municipality is now going to be sitting on a very big bill in terms of compensation, running into millions of dollars, which might see them getting their properties attached. Would it please the Hon. Minister to conscientise the local authorities and to also make sure that the judgement that has been handed down is adhered to, to the ethos and the values of this judgement so that there is compensation which indeed will be approaching the courts to get the compensation because the wares have not been returned according to this judgement? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Nduna for that very pertinent question. My Ministry, like any other Ministry abides by the law. If there was a judgement that was passed as you alluded to, we encourage our local authorities to abide by that judgement. As such, I am going to make it a point that I will visit Chegutu Municipality which you have highlighted, to see to it that they implement the judgement. Thank you.
HON. MADZIMURE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Madam Speaker, can we have a timeframe from the Minister, when that communication is going to be made to local authorities? This is now happening on a daily basis and there have been fights even in the street between the Municipal police and people. What I witnessed yesterday after I had left Parliament was terrible, a fight in the middle of the street where a woman was fighting a police officer. I cannot even say he was a municipal police because he was not in uniform, trying to grab the wares of that woman. Also, there is no register to keep the list of what would have been confiscated. Can the Minister give us a timeframe as to when the communication is going to be given to local authorities so that we know it is now illegal for them to do so.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker and thank you Honourable for that follow-up question. I cannot really say when but I will make sure that I prioritise this because I have to also look at the by-laws of that specific local authority and make sure that I do not hand out a circular or a directive just for the sake of it. I will have to get my Legal Department to look at the specific cases, in this case I have been given Chegutu and Harare. I will try to indulge the Hon. MPs to give me specifics so that I look into that. I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary question is that as Government that says it listens to the people’s concerns, as Members of Parliament here, we are the ones who carry the concerns of the people from our constituencies. The concerns of the vendors out there are that everyone is struggling economically. They are requesting Government to declare that vendors should freely sell their products without being harassed by municipal police because everyone is struggling in this country. The question is; why is Government failing to give vendors in this country a chance to operate freely without being arrested so that when the economy improves, they can now implement those by-laws that they are referring to? I thank you.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Speaker and thank you very much Hon. Hamauswa for that follow-up question. Every country has its laws and we have to follow the laws and by-laws by local authorities. As I represent Local Government Ministry, we tried by all means to implement some programmes meant for vendors. We have also tried to allocate space meant for vending stalls but people sometimes do not want to go and put up their market at such places.
As a Minister, there is no way I can declare that people should operate on undesignated areas because tomorrow if something happens, I will be accused again. We will try by all means that as Government we implement various programmes that should be implemented according to the laws and by-laws. As legislators, I hereby request that we should encourage the electorate to follow the laws and by-laws and encourage them to work from designated sites. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: My question is to the Leader of Government business pertaining to false prophets that come to this country after they have done a research in terms of prophecy. They go and talk to families to make you believe that what they are saying is true. They take money from our people yet things are so difficult, in particular the one called Prophet Chris Okafor from Nigeria who has been banned in South Africa and Namibia but he is coming to Zimbabwe.
He also prophesied in 2015 that the former late President Mugabe will die. Indeed, everybody dies but he then died in 2019. You can see that he has an agenda. What policy has Government got to vet these people before they come to this country because they also come for our money? Do we not have enough prophets in this country? We have Prophet Magaya, Prophet Makandiwa, churches and so forth. Are we short of faith as a nation to want to import faith into this country? Are we not a God-fearing country? Why are we allowing prophets to come to this country and milk money from our people?
I would like the Minister to speak on Prophet Chris Okafor from Nigeria who is coming. He was banned from South Africa and it will be worth investigating him before he comes. There is need for there to be a panel of men of God who are able to vet these people because it is not good for the country for us to have these false prophets who come and perform prophecy which they would have done research before they come here. May the Minister of Justice who is Leader of Government business respond to the policy on Government on such people. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for such an interesting question regarding prophets who come from other countries and the majority of them being very intelligent people who then do researches on how we live as a people. They will come and say exactly how we are surviving here and make false predictions.
I am saying it is an interesting question because we have a legal lacuna to deal with such people in the country. Admittedly, I think we need to have a look at it and have a policy. This is because some of the prophecies cause alarm and despondency in the country and eventually, you will then realise that those prophecies were false. I take note and I will ask my Policy and Research Department to investigate whether we can find a way of dealing with that, together with the Ministry of Home Affairs. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker. Just to buttress on the Honourable’s question. Could the Minister also answer the question whether they are deserving of any protocols and concessions given to formal churches pertaining to taxes and benefits? I say so because a lot of these prophets are businesses and they should be taxed as a very profitable business. You only have to come into my area to see shops on mountains owned by prophets and so they should be taxed. Can the Minister look seriously into taxing these people formally and properly? Thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The general rule is that churches are not taxed but when churches get involved in investments, those are subject to taxation. Even when some of the prophets own property in their own personal names, they are subject to taxation. I am sure the Hon. Member is aware of one local prophet wherein ZIMRA went there to audit the assets of that particular prophet and requested that he was supposed to pay taxes. It is not correct to say that if I declare myself a prophet today, I will not be taxed. My earnings will be subject to tax, but if it is a church that is involved in charitable work, then those charitable funds are not subjected to taxation. I thank you.
HON. TEKESHE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public works. Why are local councils charging exorbitant fees which they refer to as part of the lease agreement when you have already bought your stand?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Hon. Speaker and I want to thank Hon. Tekeshe for the question. We have a department of valuations; they are the ones that evaluate the value of each stand for purposes of either leasing or purchase of that particular stand. The figures which these councils come up with are not thumb suck. Furthermore, these lease agreements are made with the two parties agreeing to the conditions set out in the contract and they have to honor the conditions of their specific contract.
*HON. TEKESHE: You did not understand my question, I said that the prices that are being charged for these leases are exorbitant and the councils are not selling any land to business stands in rural areas.
*HON. CHOMBO: The Hon. Member should appreciate that lease agreements are drawn and agreed to by the two parties. It is in the business person’s interest to ensure that they set up their operations in an area which is affordable to them. Furthermore, they should be careful when coming up with these agreements because they are not easily broken and they have serious repercussions once they are breached.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. My supplementary borders on the final word from the Hon. Minister. Would it please the Hon. Minister that in order that we bring down the housing backlog and indeed the issue of land ownership on the business side, to adhere to the ethos and values of Section 72 (7) (c) of the Constitution which states that the land can revert to its requisite owners. This is the section that was used in the land reform and coupled with the Urban Councils Act of Section 152 and Section 205 that speaks to and about estate management. There are three issues in those two sections that speak to leasing, selling and donation of that land in those local authorities. Same in Section 152 and similarly in Section 205, in order to bring down housing and indeed, the land ownership backlog. Would it please the Hon. Minister to repudiate or advocate for striking down of the two sections that do not speak to donation so that the Constitution which is sui generis is indeed attached to those two sections of the Urban Councils Act? This will enable Section 2 of the supremacy of the Constitution to be adhered to otherwise the two sections in the Urban Councils Act have two provisions that are ultra vires the Constitution which will never see the housing backlog going down. Would it please the Hon. Minister to advocate for the striking down of those two provisions in those sections in order that we marry it to Section 72 (7) (c) of the Constitution and indeed, so that Section 2 comes alive Madam Speaker?
HON. CHOMBO: Thank very much Hon. Speaker and I also want to thank Hon. Nduna for the longish explanation. My Ministry is in the middle of realigning the Urban Councils Act. We are looking at all those legal provisions to make sure that they align with the current Constitution. I thank you.
HON. MATEWU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question goes to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In terms of the Building Control Act of 1992, it made provisions for accessibility to people living with disabilities so that any new infrastructure, be it pave-ways and so forth, has to be in compliance with that Act for people living with disability. We have seen a lot of buildings and pavements nowadays that do not pay any attention. What is the Ministry going to do to ensure that this Act is implemented so that people living with disability have access to infrastructure? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Thank you very much Hon. Matewu. As the department of public works, we make sure that we adhere to the current building requirements. As such we are supposed to make sure that our buildings are friendly to everybody. I cannot say it is an oversight, if there is a building that is being erected in the current day and it does not have that friendly environment, I urge you to bring it up to my office. It is a prerequisite that all the buildings are accessible by everybody. I thank you.
*HON. JAJA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I direct my question to the Minister of Health. What is Government policy regarding those that are diabetic and hyper-tensive? Most of these patients are surviving on traditional therapy, they are taking in the leaves of avocado tree and guava tree as medication. They do not have money to buy medication.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The diseases that the Hon. Member has mentioned are chronic diseases where the majority of our clinics have provisions to ensure that those that live with those conditions access the relevant medicines. If the medicines are not there, it is not a policy question but it is a logistical and administrative issue that would then need the Ministry to interrogate and find out how the supply chain is being handled. I thank you.
*HON. JAJA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am of the opinion that the Ministry treats these chronic diseases the same way as HIV and AIDS who have free access to ARVs. Most of these patients are old aged and they cannot afford to buy the medication. These people really need assistance. I thank you.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker, there are plans which are at an advanced stage to set up a levy for non-communicable diseases so that the specific group that the Hon. Member is mentioning can access drugs for free. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the Hon. Deputy Speaker in terms of Standing Order No. 68.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DELAYS IN TABLING THE JUSTICE UCHENA REPORT
- MARKHAM asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to explain to the House: -
- Why the Justice Uchena Report has still not been brought before this House even though it was completed and handed to His Excellency, the President in December 2019; and
- To further elaborate how much money was used by the Commission and to state when it was paid out.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member and my response to part (a) is that I would like to inform this august House that the Commissions of Enquiry Act [Chapter 10:07] is reserved for the President through S.I 94 of 2018.
My response to part (b) is that Madam Speaker, you may wish to redirect the question to the Leader of Government Business in Parliament who happens to be the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Deputy Minister. Hon. Markham, I am sure you have heard it from the Hon. Deputy Minister.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, this has been going on. This is actually the twenty-seventh time I have asked this House for that Commission and I have never …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please may you redirect your question?
HON. MARKHAM: I will Madam Speaker, but I just like, for noting purposes. If Hansard can note that I have asked this 27 times to this House for that. That is the first attempted answer I have heard and it is pathetic. Madam Speaker, I redirect my question back to the Leader of the House, the Minister of Justice. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER having moved on to the next question.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, is he not going to answer me now on number one – [HON. ZIYAMBI: No, I will bring a written answer.] – but he has had 27 times to answer a written question but he has never done it –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, he cannot answer your question now but he will bring a written answer – [HON. MARKHAM: Kubvunza chete, 27 times?] – [HON. ZIYAMBI: Kupindura chete.]
TRANSFERENCE OF LAND AROUND NORTH-EASTERN BOUNDARY OF HARARE EAST CONSTITUENCY TO HARARE METROPOLITAN
- HON. MARKHAM asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House:
- whether the land around the north-eastern boundary of Harare East Constituency which borders Goromonzi West has been transferred to the Harare Metropolitan Province?
- whether there is a masterplan for its development.
- how the City of Harare or Goromonzi Rural District Council can authorise such transfer when this land has not yet been designated?
- how the Ministry allowed this to happen when it is already failing to regularise the existing informal settlements of Harare North and East.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): The area referred to is at the interface of two constituencies whose boundaries were delimitated by ZEC. ZEC should therefore be asked to confirm which properties are covered by the relevant piece of land and if that piece of land was transferred to Harare Metropolitan Province. In respect of provincial boundaries, the Minister of Local Government and Public Works is not aware of any provincial boundary that has changed.
My response to the second part is that the status of the area in terms of preparation and approval of master plans and related spatial plans can only be determined once the names of the affected properties are provided by ZEC and/or the Hon. Member.
On the third part, the transfer of land from one constituency or province to another, is effected through delimitation by ZEC and as such, ZEC should provide the requisite response.
My response to the last part as highlighted earlier, the transfer of land from one constituency or province to another, is effected through delimitation by ZEC and as such, ZEC should provide the requisite response.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, the Minister has given a very comprehensive answer of what should happen. What is happening is very different. Residents are being charged by Goromonzi West. The whole masterplan or the local Government plan has been done by City of Harare. Could the Minister investigate at least because stand holders and home owners are getting fleeced by land barons and cooperatives. When you leave the boundary of City of Harare, you travel for seven kilometres in full fledged Borrowdale type of houses and there is no plan. There is no plan from the Minister’s own admission. I am quite happy to take her for a ride and show her that on the ground it is totally different to what she is telling the House.
HON. CHOMBO: I think I have noted what he has raised.
TITLE DEEDS TO TENANTS UNDER THE RENT TO BUY SCHEME IN HIGHFIELD WEST CONSTITUENCY
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House what the Ministry is doing to give title deeds to tenants who have been under the rent to buy scheme in Highfield West Constituency for more than 40 years?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Let me start by thanking the Hon. Member for asking the question. The flats in Highfield West Constituency are under the Harare City Council and not State land. As such, the title deeds are processed by City Council conveyancers and as the parent Ministry for local authorities, we only play an oversight role if there are any challenges. The beneficiaries are therefore supposed to engage the local authority for the title deeds. If, however, they were under State land such flats are now under the mandate of the Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities.
The Ministry of Local Government and Public Works only receives recommendations from Ministry of National Housing and Social Amenities recommending title processing for the tenants who would have been under the rent to buy scheme who are fully paid and they have met all the conditions. After receiving the letter, we verify, survey and the tenant pays administration fee of $10 at the prevailing interbank rate. The tenant also pays deduction fees to the Surveyor General’s office and stamp duty to Deeds office. We then prepare draft deed and lodge with the Deeds office. I thank you.
HON. HAMAUSWA: My supplementary question is, if we read the Constitution, it says the Cabinet Ministers are individually and collectively responsible and accountable for their duties. I want to relate this issue to the issuance of title deeds to Epworth and highlight to the Hon. Minister that it is not only the flats in Highfield West but also a number of houses in Harare where the owners do not have title deeds after they were promised that after 25 years, for example in Warren Park and some parts of Mufakose. They were promised that after 25 years, they were going to be issued with title deeds. Those owners are still paying fees they were supposed to have stopped 25 years after 1981. Now, we are 43 years after the attainment of independence and they do not have tile deeds.
My question to the Hon. Minister is, is it not also correct and I think it can be prudent enough for the Government to consider rolling out the programme of assisting homeowners in Harare and other Urban Areas to get title deeds since they were promised they were going to get title deeds after 25 years and this has not yet happened and we are now 43 years after the attainment of independence? I want to hear the response from the Hon. Minister, what is going to happen to those homeowners who do not have title deeds in all other parts of the City of Harare?
HON. CHOMBO: As I said, if those houses or flats that you raised on the issue of title deeds, if they belong to City Council, it is City Council’s responsibility to make sure that they process the title deeds. Of course, I am not trying to run away from the responsibility as I am the parent Ministry but we are rolling out the title deeds processing to all the towns in Zimbabwe. We just started with Epworth and we have a long list that we are addressing. I have not looked at my list to make sure that the ones you have raised are on the list but it is a project that was initiated by His Excellency that we have to make sure that even the illegal settlements have been regularised and have been given ownership through title deeds. So it is something that we are doing in earnest. I hope that you will give me the area that you have highlighted so that we put it on our list if it falls within State land or is within the city council.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: Is the Hon. Deputy Minister of Local Government aware that residents in areas such as Western Triangle and Zororo in Harare have been living in these houses for a very long time now but they do not have title deeds? It is now an urgent matter because the previous owners of these houses are deceased. So if you do not urgently attend to this issue, it may be difficult to deal with in the near future.
I observed that you have rushed to regularize Epworth at the expense of these old suburbs. There are some people that were supposed to have benefited as way back as 1980 but they have not received anything. What was the rationale for rushing to regularize Epworth?
When do these tenants in Highfields suburbs receive their own title deeds?
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL, AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you, Madam Speaker, I happen to chair the committee to do with the issuance of title deeds. What the Hon. Member is referring to is exactly the first point that my Deputy Minister of Local Government indicated that the local authority was supposed to process the title deeds.
However, when His Excellency noted that people were just staying without any title deeds, that is when the issue of Epworth came up. Everything that the Hon. Member was explaining was bound to happen because our local authorities, particularly in Harare and Bulawayo, neglected to do their duty. His Excellency the President took it upon himself to say ‘I am setting up a Committee but we are starting with Epworth, we will roll it out to Highfields, Glenview, Cowdry Park, etcetera. So that is the programme, we cannot be held accountable now to say why are you not moving with urgency when there are local authorities that have been under certain political parties for over 20 years but they never thought to regularize.
Now, His Excellency is saying I have come in, I want each and every household in urban settlement to have title to their stands. This is the programme that the Deputy Minister is indicating that it is a massive programme but there are certain issues that we cannot do shortcuts. We need to be sure that the person who is occupying that particular property is indeed the correct one. There are officials from Local Government who need to physically visit and inspect the pegs so that they satisfy themselves that the information that is there with our local authorities is exactly the same as what is on the ground.
It is not a process that you can say we rush and complete in a short space of time, lest we end up giving little to underserving people, but we have the willpower to ensure that we complete this exercise. We believe that it will unlock a lot of value, the majority of our people will be able to borrow against those title deeds. They will be able to develop or even do certain business. So, this is the thrust that the Second Republic is undertaking. I thank you.
*HON. CHIDZIVA: On a point of clarity! Should members of the public continue to pursue local authorities for title deeds or they should just wait for this Presidential programme?
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. The truth of the matter is that nothing is coming out from these municipalities, so the people might as well wait for the programme that was rolled out by His Excellency the President.
The Hon. Member has confessed that the processes were supposed to have been done as way back as 1981 but no-one did anything about it. Thanks to His Excellency the President, Dr. E.D Mnangagwa who has now come up with a programme to regularize these anomalies. Be that as it may, if there are those local authorities that are capable of regularizing the ownership issue, they may well go ahead and do so because it is their duty. I thank you.
*HON. HAMAUSWA: On a point of order! My point of order is that the Minister has spoken very well about what the President’s intentions are. We are happy that you want to give title deeds to these people that have been in occupation of these houses but in certain areas, how is this programme going to be implemented in the rest of the country?
Since the Hon. Minister has said that he chairs the regularizing committee - as Hon. Members, we want to be furnished with the contacts of the rest of the committee so that our communities and us as Members of Parliament may get directly in touch with them since they will need this access to give details as residents. We would want to ensure that your good programme becomes nationally acceptable so that there will not be any discrimination based on whether you are a child of the senior wife or the junior wife. You may follow the same trend where committees of blitz programmes are published in the newspapers for the benefit of the generality of the public.
*HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Madam Speaker. This programme does not look at the colour of your skin. It merely looks at a specific area to ascertain whether the mapping is properly done and if there are houses that are affected - along the way the occupants will be relocated if they are built along the road.
Furthermore, those whose houses are okay, are paid a visit and their documentation is interrogated and if found to be in order, then they will be issued with title deeds regardless of whether they are children of senior or junior wives. They are not looking at who is your father or mother but if you are eligible, you are entitled to the issuance of the title deeds. As soon as the programme moves to Warren Park, the Hon. Members will be informed. The programme is at its inception stage and Epworth was a test case. It would be naïve at this stage to open the committee’s contacts to the public. It is neither here nor there that the programme started in Epworth. If we had started it in Warren Park, residents of Glenview would have asked why the programme started with them. The long and short of it is that the President’s programme has started and it is a juggernaut - it is unstoppable. His wish is to see that everyone benefits from the regularisation through the issuance of title deeds so that if an old lady in Highfield were to die, the heirs to the estate will use her title deeds. This will put a stop to the practice of municipalities tampering with the names of the owners of these properties. For example, one might find the ownership of the house now in the name of Jonathan instead of Hamauswa.
If title deeds were issued, one would not be able to tamper with them. This is the President’s wish which will be nationally implemented. It had to start somewhere and Epworth was chosen as a pilot project, which will be implemented nationwide.
ABLUTION FACILITIES FOR HOUSES IN NEW CANAAN OF HIGHFIELD
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the Government would construct ablution facilities for 25 houses in New Canaan Highfield from House Number 5753 to 5799.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me inform the House that Stands Number 5753 to 5799 are old council houses constructed sharing one ablution facility per two properties. The setting or development is connected to reticulated sewer network and council under Nenyere building section, constructed additional ablution facilities. This was meant to provide a separately connected ablution per family or household. What remains are some connections to the new structures which will be completed in the 2023 budget year. I thank you.
REPLACEMENT OF OLD SEWER PIPES IN HIGHFIELD WEST
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the Ministry would replace old sewer pipes in Highfield West in order to curb sewer bursts.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am and thank you Hon. Chidziva for your question. Madam Speaker Ma’am, let me thank the Hon. Member for asking the question. The city has an ongoing pipe replacement programme that is funded by devolution funds and the revenue budget. The city has a network of waste water pipes in excess of 5 000kms, with 98% due for replacement.
Highfield West, with a sewer network over 50 years old, also overloaded is no exception. The programmed timelines are also hampered by the availability of funds, making it difficult to give defined rehabilitation end times. It is also important to note that currently 99 to 100% of reported blockages are cleared within 24 hours of reporting daily. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker, sorry my gadget has dropped. Madam Speaker, my supplementary is; I commend the Hon. Minister on her answer. My concern in what the Hon. Minister has just answered, is both the master plan for the water and the master plan for the city sewerage has not been upgraded for the past 20 years. Could the Hon. Minister give us assurance that the master plan for water and for sewerage, for the 98% sewerage pipes that need to be replaced will and when will it be done? Thank you.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir and thank you Hon. Markham. I cannot give definite timeframes of when it will be done but the blockages are of major concern and also as I stated, there is a roll-up programme to replace all the pipelines that are over 50 years old. It is a priority to both the local authorities and Government. We try to encourage the local authorities to use the devolution funds to make sure they address that as it will improve the service delivery.
BLOCKED DRAINAGE SYSTEM IN HIGHFIELD WEST
- HON. CHIDZIVA asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to inform the House when the Ministry would address the problem of blocked drainage systems in Highfield West that has seen New Canaan and Zororo communities experiencing water logging.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Madam Speaker Ma’am, I would like to inform this august House that an annual storm water drainage was conducted in Highfield West. However, there are two critical challenges that are being addressed progressively; illegal dumping of waste in storm water drains which clogs the system. This is being addressed through collection of refuse and removal of illegal dumps.
The second issue relates to two infill stands that were created and houses were built on the open spaces that were originally meant for storm water drains. Internal investigations on why stands were allocated on these areas are being conducted in the city and the results of such will be shared.
HON. MARKHAM: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir! I would like to draw to your attention the fact that the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement has two deputy ministers and they are normally not here for question time. I would like to take my hat off to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works, at least she has answered her questions and she is constantly here.
Mr. Speaker, my issue with the Ministry of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement is; I have two outstanding questions. Since August 2022 on re-entry, the software in the tobacco buying system that blocks stop orders while people are selling so that they do not have to pay their stop orders, we were due for a statement and still it has not come; that is from last year and we have already bought a quarter of the crop and have not had a statement on this major issue that is stopping payment of Government debt.
The other issue is from last year winter. We are now planting and this month is the main winter wheat planting but from last year, we wanted a statement from the Hon. Minister as to why there are such massive delays. This question was asked in September 2022 as to why there were massive delays in the payment for the winter wheat for farmers. To date, we have heard nothing and every time I ask the question, the Hon. Chair says yes, we will get the Minister to answer; he has not done so. He gave us a statement two months ago that he had issued 500-99-year leases. We asked for a statement on that, and it was granted. He has not come to us to answer as to where the 500 were issued and to whom.
On the other hand, and only yesterday, we had the issue that I brought up. We have 650 indigenous farmers who were vacated off the land during the Land Reform Programme and not one of them has a 99-year lease. Why is he giving 500 to other people who did not buy their land? So could the Minister or the Leader of the House force the Minister to come here and respond to these questions. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr. Speaker. What he is alluding to has been addressed by the Speaker earlier on when we started the session today. So we have already taken note of that. I thank you.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.KHUMALO) in terms of Standing Order No. 68.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Mr. Speaker Sir, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 26 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 27 on today’s Order Paper has been disposed of. I thank you.
Motion put and agreed to.
COMMITTEE STAGE
CONSIDERATION OF AN ADVERSE REPORT BY THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE ON THE MINES AND MINERALS AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 10, 2022]
Twenty-Seventh Order read: Committee Stage: Consideration of an Adverse Report by the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill [H. B. 10, 2022].
HON. SAMUKANGE: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I will start by saying that I am the Chairman of the Parliamentary Legal Committee which is established in terms of the Constitution, being Clause 152 (3) (a). Your Committee deliberated on the Mines and Minerals Bill and after serious consideration of the whole Bill, we came to the conclusion that it was necessary for us to issue an adverse report, unfortunately.
The Adverse Report is almost as huge as the Bill itself. It covers literally from clause 1 up to the end of the clauses. In addition to that, we also found some grammatical mistakes which we had to correct. It is my submission that if I were to read clause by clause, we would be here the whole evening which is not desirable.
I appreciate that not all Members of Parliament have been able to go through the Adverse Report. My suggestion is that all Members, hopefully by tomorrow or the day after, will be able to meaningfully read it, compare it with the proposed draft Bill so that we can all debate, maybe interact before and after Parliament has decided. It is my humble submission that I present the Adverse Report of the Committee. The whole Committee, consisting of five Members, all lawyers and all practicing attorneys, have agreed unanimously to have this issue dealt with by issuing an adverse report. I thank you Mr. Chairman.
[The Chairperson of the Parliamentary Legal Committee (Hon. Samukange) laid the Adverse Report of the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill [H. B. 10, 2022] on the Table].
HON. MARKHAM: All I am asking is when we get that draft report, can you also send the Bill? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Hon. Chair. I move that you report progress and seek leave to sit again. I thank you.
House Resumed
Progress reported.
Committee to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI), the House adjourned at Three Minutes past Five-O’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 10th May, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded once again to put their phones on silent or better switch them off.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 By-Election.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order Read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I rise to wind up my motion on the State of the Nation Address which His Excellency, the President was pleased to deliver to Parliament as he officially opened the Fifth Session of the Ninth Parliament. As alluded to by Hon. Senators, the Second Republic has achieved a lot in the shortest possible time. I therefore, would like to thank all the Hon. Senators who contributed to this motion. With those few words, Mr. President, I move that the motion be adopted.
Motion that: A respectful address be presented to the President of Zimbabwe as follows: -
May it please you, your Excellency the President;
We, the Members of Parliament of Zimbabwe desire to express our loyalty to Zimbabwe and beg leave to offer our respectful thanks for the speech, which you have been pleased to address to Parliament.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Mr. President Sir, I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 3 and 4 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on sustainable healthcare systems in Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the sustainable management of waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. S. MPOFU: Mr. President Sir, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on combating human trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the report of the 145th IPU and related meetings held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. MUZENDA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. MKHWEBU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Thursday, 11th May, 2023.
On the motion of HON. SEN. MUZENDA, seconded by HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE, the Senate adjourned at a Quarter to Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 9th May, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. SPEAKER: I would like to inform Hon. Members that I have to recognise the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the Namibian delegation being headed by Hon. Paula Cooper. I thank you.
NON-ADVERSE REPORTS RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on Statutory Instruments 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 and 45 gazetted in March, 2023 and Statutory Instruments 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51 52, 53, 54 and 55 gazetted in April, 2023.
ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE
THE HON. SPEAKER: I also have to inform the House that I have received an Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Mines and Minerals Amendment Bill [H. B. 10, 2022].
HON. T. MLISWA: Point of national interest Mr. Speaker Sir. A very good afternoon to you, Sir. It has been a long time, but on a more important issue, it is quite disturbing…
THE HON. SPEAKER: I thought missing me was also important Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the current parallel market rate has gone up to 3000 and we are also part of the people who have been affected. We are paid at least RTGS700 000. If you divide that, it is a mere US$250. Members of Parliament have got families just like the civil servants, like anybody else and they are struggling to send their children to school as we speak. We unfortunately do not have any benefits on our contracts pertaining to the children who go to school.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as you would appreciate, most of the things we have done, we do out of national interest but it is unfortunate when national interest now requires you to actually dig deep into your thin pocket. The Hon. Members here, most of them you probably met when you chaired the Appeals Committee of ZANU PF when they were basically putting in their pleas for re-runs did not really loose but one of the reasons that I would have put forward if I was contesting in a ZANU PF election to the Chairman of the Appeal’s Committee is that I lost because of lack of resources. They have used their own resources to build the communities, to build the country.
We passed a budget here and what is unfortunate is that when we pass the budget and there is something which concerns Parliament and is not acted upon, from a national perspective, what do they say about other budgets that we pass here? This House approves this budget on motor vehicles; $50 000, $80 000. The Minister of Finance then says, yes, I can give you….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you have forgotten that you have one minute – [AN HON. MEMBER: Iyi nyaya yakakosha.] – Hon. Member, I did not call you and you did not apply to be my deputy. According to the Standing Rules, can you wind up your statement.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. With the powers vested in you, according to Standing Order Number 215 and you being the Chairperson of the Welfare Committee of the Pressure Group, may I indulge you to give me a bit more time because the issues I am talking about concern most Members…
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, wind up. State exactly what you want done.
HON. T. MLISWA: Whatever we have done from a legal point of view has not been achieved. One example is the motor vehicle; we have been given a duty-free certificate for $60 000. There was some change from $80 000, which is $30 000, which the Minister of Finance himself did…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, that is an interest for the Parliament and it is an administrative issue. I thought you started very well on the issue of inflation.
HON. T. MLISWA: What I was getting to Mr. Speaker Sir was - I am citing Parliament as an example of budgets which have been approved and this also, we talk about the various portfolios which have approved some budgets. Parliament was just an example but there are so many portfolios outside Parliament where we have approved the budgets here and there has been no achievement whatsoever. My point from a national interest point of view, what is the point of us burning the midnight candle, passing budgets and yet there is no implementation?
Inflation has gone up, there is no review; there is no supplementary budget coming. With the inflation going up at this rate, any country would have a supplementary budget. So my national…
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your appeal?
HON. T. MLISWA: May the Minister, with immediate effect, come with a supplementary budget as a result of the inflation which has gone up and the rate which has gone up to $3 000 on the parallel market? That requires a supplementary budget so that he can achieve what we have approved here. For example, getting our $30 000 cars and civil servants also getting what belongs to them. There is no way – he must be here to tell us what he is doing to address the inflation which has gone up and the rate which has gone up to $3 000. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There are two issues that Hon. Mliswa raised. One is a call for a supplementary budget. The other is an appeal to find out what the Minister of Finance is doing in order to arrest inflation. So which is which now? - [HON. MEMBERS: Both] – It cannot be both. Which is your priority issue. [HON. BITI: High rate is a bi-product of inflation.] –
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Biti said it so well, I cannot say better than that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Inflation is the key issue that you would want the Hon. Minister to address. Alright, the issue will be presented to the Hon. Minister of Finance.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I have got a point of national interest which borders on a High Court Order that was delivered by Hon. Justice Chitapi. The applicant was the vendors, Mr. Godfrey Mhiwa and 105 others. The respondents were Chegutu Municipality and the police but the import of the judgement…
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of national interest?
HON. NDUNA: The import of this judgement is national. It does not only speak to the respondents and the applicant. I therefore, armed with this judgement of 2019, urge the local authorities that this becomes a locus classicus case. It becomes a test case and this judgement stays and applies to all local authorities to shy away from impounding wares of vendors; lest they will fall foul of the law which is advanced or which is embolden by this judgement. Those will be my submissions. I know for a very fact that a local authority has now fallen foul of the law and they have to compensate 105 vendors. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you very much, I am still speaking, why are you standing up?
Hon. Members having sung happy birthday.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Our Standing Orders say you do not
sing.
Hon. G. Banda being the one who led the singing, was asked to
leave the House.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You made your observations Hon. Nduna. I suggest you ask a question tomorrow directed to the Minister of Local Government on the issue.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My point of national interest is to do with the global settlement deed. As we heard in the pre-budget meeting, the Minister of Finance told us that by a referendum the farmers had agreed to the package. However, last week the farmers had a non-binding poll and only 48% voted for the motion, of which of the total farmers less than half voted. My point is that it is clear that the Minister is…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Can you clarify first, where was the voting?
HON. MARKHAM: It was online poll pertaining to the offer we had by farmers who represented commercial farmers. This is for the compensation which the Minister of Finance told us it had already been done when it had not. The farmers have rejected it. What I want to clarify is the farmers rejected it because the Minister is offering bonds starting in four years’ time. There is no security to the bonds for us as farmers can see. That is the major issue. It is not a confrontational issue. The issue is the bonds.
The second issue is that I am concerned that the commercial farmers are held on one side with compensation and it was with the Minister of Agriculture’s admission, 650 indigenous farmers who also lost their land. They were offered 99-year leases and to our knowledge none have been given. I am talking of the indigenous commercial farmers. The indigenous commercial farmers have been offered no compensation package. My issue goes to Statutory Instrument 62 of 2021. The issue with that Mr. Speaker is, the indigenous farmer and the BIPA farmers were offered their farms back but none have been given. BIPA farmers are the international protected farmers.
The problem is that we need a unified approach and bonds do not work; it will not be accepted by the farmers. My biggest concern is the indigenous farmers have not even been debated in this House under any circumstance. With your indulgence, I would like the Minister to clarify where we stand on all farmers? I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: We will refer your request to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development to clarify issues accordingly.
HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My point of national interest is to do with the issue of gold mafia published by Al Jazeera which is a serious issue to Zimbabwean citizens. I therefore request the Minister of Justice, legal and Parliamentary Affairs who is the leader of Government business to come with a ministerial statement on Government position. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Your request has been overtaken by events. The Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee is seized with the matter.
*HON. NYABANI: On a point of privilege Mr. Speaker Sir. My issue is that I was chosen by the people of Rushinga to represent them in Parliament but what I have realised now is that I am no longer capable of representing them in Parliament because Rushinga is far away. I am not able to stay here in Harare. I just squeezed to come to Harare to inform you that there is no network in Rushinga yet here in Harare there is no accommodation. How am I going to represent the people of Rushinga? This is why I had to come here to inform you. If you are going to allocate fuel to people who stay around here, it is better for you to give me fuel to travel to and from Rushinga every day. I would rather do that on a daily basis. I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, may I respond to Hon. Nyabani, the matter was brought to my attention on Monday through Government Chief Whip Hon. Togarepi. Immediately, I spoke to the Hon. Minister of Finance and Economic Development as he was arriving from London in the company of His Excellency, the President. He indicated that he will interface with the Chairman of the board of the hotels and their chief executives, I have some comfort in that. On Monday, I got some telephone conversation from some members that they had not been accommodated. I looked for the Hon. Minister again and I could not get hold of him. Finally I got hold of the Permanent Secretary Mr. Guvamatanga who assured me that he was going to make some arrangements with the hotels and make sure that payment was done – [HON. HWENDE: Inaudible interjections.] - Order Hon. Member do you want to listen to my response, then listen.
The issue appears to be that the Ministry of Finance is looking at an average cost of rooms. The hotel groups are saying they are being charged inflationary charges in terms of supplies and therefore, they have raised their hotel rates. In response to that, we have what I may call hyper charges from the suppliers. So you have a chicken and egg situation here. The Permanent Secretary should have come back to me. When he did not do that, I thought everything had been sorted out. It appears nothing has been sorted out. I agree with Hon. Nyabani that some constituencies are difficult to communicate with and therefore, Members of Parliament are somehow forced to be in Harare to participate and fulfil their responsibilities.
Now, if I do not get any satisfactory answer, then I will have to raise the issue with His Excellency the President. Last time I said that and they paid – [HON. HWENDE: Hindava muchinyepa.] – Hon. Hwende, I have no reason to lie to you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Hon. Speaker, I just want to supplement.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is no need for supplementing because the highest office is His Excellency the President.
HON. T. MLISWA: The issue was resolved.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It was resolved, why do we have a problem now if it was resolved?
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker, we are very much cognizant of the fact that the economy is tough and Government wants to get a rate which is reasonable. Members of Parliament have no problems with that. If you recall, we agreed that pay the Members of Parliament the money and some had been using their money staying in various places. So, whatever Government agrees on, whether it is US$150 per day with whatever food. We agreed on that and I thought the only thing left was the implementation.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, can you take your seat. Have you received that US$150 – [HON. MEMBERS: No.] – Hon. T Mliswa just sit down please. There is nothing that has been resolved because Members of Parliament have not been paid that USS$150, so there is nothing that has been resolved – [HON. BITI: It is Mthuli, lies.] – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Finally, Hon. Members, I sympathise with you in all respect and let us see how we can sort out the issue once I have appealed to the highest office. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of national interest is directed to the esteemed Minister of Finance and Economic Development. Mr. Speaker, 75% of our people are suffering.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Biti, you are not connected.
HON. BITI: Mr. Speaker Sir, my point of national interest is directed to the Minister of Finance whom I am begging that you make a ruling that he be summoned before this august House to address the issue of elicit financial flows. Seventy-nine percent of our people are living in extreme poverty.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, Leader of Government Business, Hon. Gonese and the Clerk, can you go out and sort your issues. Sorry Hon. Biti please go ahead.
HON. BITI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Seventy-nine percent of our people are living in extreme poverty surviving on US$1.25 per day yet this country is extremely rich. We have 64 minerals including world class deposits of lithium, gold, platinum, diamonds, chrome et cetera but we have nothing to show for it. A billion dollars is being smuggled out illegally through tobacco and gold smuggling. Can the Hon. Minister come before this august House to lay out a legal road map or otherwise of how he is going to deal with corruption including the gold mafia and elicit financial flows including a forensic audit of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. We cannot suffer from the resource case that we are rich but we are poor because a few elite. Otherwise, how he is going to deal with corruption, including the gold mafia, illicit financial flows and the Forensic Audit of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe? We cannot suffer from the resource case that we are rich, but we are poor because a few elite individuals have decided to steal from the people of this country. Thank you Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
THE HON. SPEAKER: I suppose that is an addition to what Hon. Mliswa has requested, agreed?
HON. BITI: Yes Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you.
Hon. Mugadza having stood up.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, is that a point of order or what?
HON MUGADZA: No Mr. Speaker Sir, I have a burning point of national interest – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Member, be in your position. In terms of our Standing Orders, we have a limited number in terms of Members who should raise issues of national interest. If you had listened carefully, I had said Hon. Biti is the last one. Perhaps you may ask a question tomorrow during question time if it is something burning. Thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker Sir, on behalf of everyone here, I hereby request that you allow the Hon. Member to speak for today only then tomorrow you will follow your order – [Laughter.] –
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, in this august House, we do not allow go between persons.
SECOND READING
ELECTORAL AMENDMENT BILL [H. B. 11, 2022]
First Order read: Adjourned debate on Second Reading of the Electoral Amendment Bill [H.B. 11, 2022].
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the debate do now adjourned.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
SECOND READING
PRISONS AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES BILL [H. B. 6, 2022]
Third Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Second Reading of the Prisons and Correctional Services Bill [H. B. 6, 2022].
Question again proposed.
HON. MATARANYIKA: 1.0.Introduction
Public participation and involvement in law-making processes remains a central mandate of Parliament and complies with its vision of a “… people-driven” Parliament. In fulfillment of its constitutional obligation, Parliament, through the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, conducted public consultations on the Prisons and Correctional Service Bill to gather views and opinions of the people from the 20th to the 25th of February 2023. The Bill which was gazetted on the 7th of October 2022, seeks to repeal the Prisons Act (Chapter 7.11) and replace it with a new Act which is in line with the provisions of the Constitution.
2.0. Background to the Bill
The Prisons Act [Chapter 7:11] was enacted into law on 23 April 1956 and was last amended in 2004. This piece of legislation, dating back to the mid-1950s, is clearly inadequate and out of sync with the international norms and standards relating to the prison administration which is now more on restorative justice as opposed to punishment of offenders. The broadening of the scope of the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Service mandate necessitated the review of the current Act to ensure that the legislation is in sync with the Constitution.
Among other things, the Bill proposes the establishment of the Prisons and Correctional Service, Prisons and Correctional Service Commission that will determine how the Service is run, modernization of prisons and correctional facilities to ensure that they meet international norms and standards and a prison system that caters for the needs of vulnerable groups such as pregnant women, juvenile offenders, persons with disabilities, and other special categories that have special needs.
3.0. Methodology
The Committee was split into two teams covering all the country’s 10 provinces spread over 19 venues. Team A covered Mashonaland West, Midlands, Bulawayo, Matabeleland North and Matabeleland South while Team B covered Mashonaland Central, Harare, Mashonaland East, Manicaland and Masvingo. The Committee considered submissions received from the public consultations in addition to written submissions received from Veritas and Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Service.
4.0. General Submissions
Members of the public submitted that there is a need to upgrade and expand prisons and correctional facilities in order to mitigate overcrowding in prisons. It was emphasized that it is essential to distinguish inmates according to their ages because doing so will prevent younger inmates (18 years to 21 years) from being influenced by the older inmates with more criminal experience. In addition, it was highlighted that there is a need to utilise the industrial skills of inmates on various projects in order to generate income for prisoners and the country.
It was further suggested that correctional officers receive a minimum of three years of training and a minimum qualification of diploma be required for one to qualify as an officer. It was highlighted that the Bill has to be carefully checked for errors as it refers to section 109 of the Constitution in Clause 183 which has no connection.
5.0. Specific submissions on the Bill
5.1.Preamble
Some members of the public submitted that although the Bill set out sections 227, 230, and 231 of the Constitution, there is a need for the Bill to also mention section 207 (2) of the Constitution, which states that the security services, including the Prison and Correctional Service, are subject to the authority of the Constitution, Executive and Parliamentary oversight.
5.2. Definitions
It was submitted that the Bill is introducing new terms which in some instances have not been properly defined. Reference was made to the “Permanent Secretary of the Ministry”, which to some members of the public is incomplete as to which Ministry is being referred to. It was further highlighted that there is an attempt to define an open correctional facility yet there is an omission of the section which establishes it.
5.3. Clause 4: Principles that guide the Service
The public applauded this clause as it enhances the Constitutional mandate of the Zimbabwe Prisons and Correctional Service since the principles include the founding values of accountability and responsiveness.
5.4. Clause 5: Functions of the Service
The public highlighted that this clause introduces a clear mandate of the Service which includes safe and humane custody for inmates, healthcare and rehabilitation programs for inmates. It was submitted that the functions of the Service ought to have been exhaustive as they leave out other issues such as nutrition and access to safe drinking water. However, spelling out clearly the basic functions of the Service will ensure that the Service can be held accountable for any act or omission.
5.5. Clauses 6, 7, and 8: Appointment, Functions, the Delegation of Functions, Retirement, and removal of the Commissioner General of Prisons
Some members of the public highlighted that Clause 6 (1) (2) provides that the Commissioner General of the Service has to comply with policy directives from the Minister in terms of section 229 (4) of the Constitution. It was their view that despite there being some resemblance of security of tenure, the Commissioner General holds office at the pleasure of the President in terms of section 320 (2) of the Constitution.
5.6.Clause 9: Power to appoint, promote, discharge, and demote
by the Commission
Some members of the public highlighted that the Constitution vests this power in the Prisons and Correctional Service Commission. However, the Bill proposes to divest power from the Commission to the President and the Commissioner General for commissioned correctional officers and non-commissioned correctional officers. It was, therefore, submitted that this clause is in violation of section 231(1) of the Constitution which gives the Commission the powers to appoint, promote, discharge and demote. It was their opinion that the Commission will only be a mere consulting body.
5.7.Clause 19: Functions of the Commission
The public noted that there is an additional function of the Commission to those provided for in the Constitution. It was highlighted that the Bill empowers the Commission to make inquiries or investigations as would commissioners under the Commissions of Inquiry Act [Chapter 10:07]. It was submitted that this extra function is couched correctly in that it fully empowers the Commission with the power to carry out unfettered inquiries and investigations as the Commissioner General will merely be consulted as it should be.
5.8.Clause 24: Establishment of Correctional facilities
The public noted that the Bill is introducing various facilities such as temporary prisons, correctional community centres, temporary correctional centres and open correctional facilities. Security levels for these facilities will be determined by the Commissioner General. Members of the public applauded the introduction of these facilities which seek to prepare inmates for reintegration into society. It was submitted that this is in line with the Constitutional mandate of the Service in section 227 (1) of the Constitution, which is rehabilitation and re-integration of offenders.
5.9.Clause 36: Use of weapons and Liability
Some members of the public noted that this clause provides that correctional officers may use weapons in various specified instances. It was highlighted that the Bill goes on to clarify that when force is used, it must be the minimum force necessary in the circumstances and such force should be to restrain and not to kill. The public applauded this clause as it goes further to exempt correctional officers from acts done in good faith. It was their view that this makes it clear that for any unlawful activities by correctional officers during the course of their duties, the Commissioner General and the Service will be held liable.
5.10. Clauses 46 and 55: Discipline of correctional officers
The public submitted that in terms of the Bill, the discipline of correctional officers will continue to be the responsibility of the Commissioner General and not the Service. This provision was applauded for being the more efficient option. However, some members of the public questioned the constitutionality of the clause since the Service is mandated by section 231 of the Constitution to fix and regulate members’ conditions of service and to ensure the well-being, good administration, and efficiency of the Service.
Some members of the public highlighted that the Bill states that disciplinary proceedings must be conducted in the English language and a correctional officer's level of comprehension of English will be assessed by the board and appoint another correctional officer or person as an interpreter. It was submitted that this is unconstitutional as all administrative conduct must be substantively and procedurally fair as provided for in Section 68 of the Constitution. It was their view that the board should not be empowered to assess the need for an interpreter but rather, a qualified interpreter should be made available on request by the correctional officer.
5.11. Clause 83: Access to legal representation by inmates
Some members of the public highlighted that this clause mandates the officer in charge to provide an inmate with a legal practitioner with adequate facilities to interview the inmate. However, it was submitted that this clause does not comply with the Constitution which requires that the consultations between an inmate and a legal practitioner of their choice must be held in private and that the inmate be informed of this right. It was further submitted that section 50 (5) (b) of the Constitution is clear on the standard and this should be included in the Bill.
5.12. Clause 91: Health care of inmates
The public highlighted that the Bill will provide for various health rights including routine check-ups and preventative measures. It was submitted that the Bill will mandate a medical officer to give special regard and care to inmates on the death penalty by examining them every day and observing their mental condition. However, some members of the public argued that the death penalty should be abolished because it is a form of torture that affects the mental health of a person and that it is an expense to the taxpayers.
5.13. Clause 139: Establishment of the State parole board
Some members of the public were of the view that membership of the board is not clear on numbers as it refers to a chairperson, two vice chairpersons, and not more than five other persons who may not be officers of the Service. It was therefore submitted that this leaves anyone to guess that it will be an eight-member board. It was further submitted that the tenure of membership is not clear on re-appointment after a five-year term, hence it will be better to clarify the tenure of the reappointment.
5.14. Clauses 143-148: Release on Parole
Some members of the public were of the view that the exclusion of inmates on death sentence from eligibility for parole is discriminatory, especially considering the fact that those serving extended sentences such as murder will be eligible for parole. It was their submission that the board will only recommend the release of a prisoner on death sentence where it involves a serious health hazard that may require treatment or if the inmate is of advanced age or with a disability. Other members of the public were of the view that not every inmate should be released on parole, and the board should take adequate measures to evaluate behaviour change because there is a risk of releasing criminals who will re-commit the same offences.
5.15. Clause 169: Correctional Board of Visitors
The public applauded the introduction of this board as a noble initiative that will go a long way in increasing accountability and inmates’ welfare. However, it was recommended that the Correctional Board of Visitors’ tenure be five years to match that of the Commission.
5.16. Clause 171: Reports on Long-Term Inmates
Some members of the public submitted that this clause is discriminatory as it does not apply to inmates on the death sentence. It was their view that this clause violates the right to equal protection and benefit of the law as mandated by Section 56 (1) of the Constitution.
5.17. Clauses 182-183: Policy Directions and power to make regulations
Some members of the public submitted that the directions and regulations are to be given and made by the Minister alone. It was their view that the Commission be involved in the decision-making process as provided for by the Constitution.
6.0. Committee observations
The Committee made the following observations:
6.1. There was a general consensus that the repeal of the Prisons Act was long overdue, hence the Bill was applauded for seeking to align the law with the Constitution and international standards.
6.2. There was a consensus that there is a need for government to put more effort and resources towards improving the basic living conditions of prisoners in Zimbabwe.
6.3. The public applauded the Government’s effort towards the correctional aspect of the Service.
7.0. Committee Recommendations
The Committee, therefore, recommends the following:
7.1. Creation of a reserve force that will act as a pool where the Commissioner General may resort to in the event of a gap being discovered within the Service.
7.2. Extension of years of service beyond fifty years.
7.3. For retired members of the Service to retain their ranks just like any other members of the Security Service.
7.4. Members of the internal police be given powers to arrest any member of the service regardless of rank.
7.5. The Bill should clearly indicate what happens to the prohibited articles that would have been searched and seized from inmates.
7.6. The Bill should provide for protection of prisons cantonment areas.
8.0. Conclusion
The Bill makes a commendable effort in legislating for the incarceration, rehabilitation, and reintegration of offenders in line with international standards and trends. It provides a framework to facilitate the execution of the institution’s mission to ‘protect society from criminal elements through the incarceration, and rehabilitation of offenders for their successful reintegration into society while exercising reasonable, safe, secure and humane control’. The Committee, therefore, believes that passing this Bill after consideration of the views of the people and their recommendations will help to shape the country’s justice delivery system in line with the National Development Strategy 1.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to contribute to the Prisons and Correctional Services Bill presented by Hon. Mataranyika as the Chairperson of the Committee. I think the services are supposed to be as correctional in nature. I think when we talk about correctional, we also talk about rehabilitation of the person and rehabilitating their ways of doing things so that they do not ultimately end up in prison. It is not a secret that when you talk about somebody going to prison, it is rather perceived to be a bad thing especially in Africa where prison should be nasty and if there is anything, most of the people who go to prison leave prison hard-core and yet it is supposed to be a place which is offering services from a correctional point of view.
One key issue which I think is missing and which was not highlighted is that it is all good saying all this but already they are under resourced. So how do you come up with this grand idea when there are no resources? The jails are full, the food is not good and the clothing is not good. Our colleague Member of Parliament Hon. Sikhala is wearing clothes which he uses at home. He is now using them there because there is no material which they are supposed to be given which is supposed to be in line with those requirements. There is this glaring issue and so, what measures are going to be taken from a resource mobilisation point of view to ensure that once this is done, it will be what we want it to be. The reason why I say this is that we have done a lot in addressing a lot of issues from a paperwork point of view.
Today, you were more less exposed to how we have passed and approved these budgets in this Parliament but still, there is nothing happening and this is a critical issue. Why are we approving budgets and yet there is no money and nothing happened? Inflation is there and no one is serious to come to this House and also the Minister of Finance does not come to this House to also present a supplementary budget. How do we move on and this is common sense issue that we do this, but how is it complemented when the budgets we pass are not enough? There is no supplementary and at the end of the day, a good Bill and nothing happens.
The question is that what resource do we have to support this? Without the resource, it becomes difficult and they think the issue is moving forward before anything is done. We should first of all ask how much money do we have for this and then we debate knowing how much money we have and this money is enough to do X, Y and Z. It becomes rhetoric that we come to debate to bring the issues up and you as the Speaker have implored on us to be factual and read.
We have read and we have done everything and we want to thank you for that to a point where some of us, I wish I could be with some of the Members of Parliament, depending on who the next Speaker will be, my next question is will the next Speaker be able to capacitate us the way you have done. Will he be able to ask us to say, this question you are asking Hon. Mliswa, which section of the Constitution and which Standing Orders and that will let you work hard to get that. So, where is the courage as Members of Parliament? The other arm of the Executive has not done that. As we come to the end of this Parliament to say what role did we do? We have seen Hon. Ziyambi pushing Bills, working hard-yes, but what then happens to those Bills? There is nothing because there is no resource. The question of recourse is critical, 43 years after independence, Central Prison is still the same, we have got farms, we went through a Land Reform, there was no land given which should suit the aspect of rehabilitation. Rehabilitation is also needed but no environment for the activities that you are to be doing.
Rehabilitation talks about recreation, sport, reading, there must be a university, a college, a school where they are attending and they are now stuck on certain things which build them afterwards and that is human capacity, that is not there. So we seem to have missed an opportunity to be able to be moving Central Prison to another place, the CBD one, they can sell it for higher price, use that money because you will still be using your resource.
Mr. Speaker, if you can imagine that most people are moving out of town towards Newlands. The price of that whole land and today people will just break it, put a new town and facilities there and make more money. That money will then go into the new rehabilitation. I have not seen again that being spoken about that in place of Government not being able to fund this, what other opportunities are there? I know there have been issues of joint ventures in terms of agriculture and a lot of things. I have not seen joint ventures with other things outside agriculture which lead to rehabilitation.
Join ventures with tertiary institutions and vocational colleges so that we really talk about the rehabilitation. We still have got solitary confinement; it is not by choice because there is no resource. There are only rooms available and we have people going into solitary confinements, they do not have to be in there. We now have this confinement which in terms of us dealing with human rights we are already infringing human rights because what crime would have one committed in order to be in solitary confinement.
These solitary confinement facilities are archaic and what crime would have been committed for one to be in there. You see that people have not committed any crime and are still in there because that is the only thing available. What does a solitary confinement do to a human being? The cost of trauma is more, do you understand what solitary confinement means. The effects, the repercussions of one being in solitary confinement. Do we have the mental health experts to be able to deal with that?
So, psychiatrists are critical in quiet a lot of things that happen because once you are in prison, definitely your mind is not the same. I know with experience that at times they just do things to break you but if you are not strong enough, you will be broken. It does not talk about a rehabilitation and correctional service centre. Again, we must look at the issue of prison shops which is a facility that should be there.
I want to give credit to our prison officers, I appreciate them because of my experience, the moment you are arrested and have not being to prison they act like born therapists. I say this from a very an emotional point, they actually rehabilitate you but yet they have not gone through mental or any other course. Credit must go to them, they make you feel better, they tell you that do not worry you will be out tomorrow because you are now on your own. You are in this new environment, you are going to prison, you are going to meet hard core criminals, you do not know where you are going but they are there talking to you all the way long.
So, when I talk about what comes to mind, what are they given in terms of remuneration after doing that, they are a total package. I talked about them dealing with your mental state, you go for the first time to prison, you are locked but you came free. Not only that you must also come with a law that before one goes into prison the judiciary in this country gives you time to go and put things in order, you are very much monitored in term of that but you go back home whether to write a will or to make sure that you are putting things in order and you meet with your family.
The family must be prepared too, families break, they last saw their father or their bread winner when they went to court, they do not know what the outcome is and suddenly they are in prison. Just imagine the trauma of the family, the bread winner and instead of them being given time to say this is the decision the court made, I am going and I will be out, they must hear that form the person. After that you are able to comfort your family that it is okay and everything will be fine. You cannot even hug your children, I at the experience of being incarcerated, I had a son in England, I saw my son over the counter. I broke down, is there no better way of me seeing my son. Do I have to see my son in court and over a counter when I am in that witness stand? I have gone through it but how many are mentally strong as I am? How many can comprehend that so why not have facilities that humanity prevails at all times Mr. Speaker Sir.
Hunhu hwedu hatirase, to these young children what would they think about, when they see their parent go. So, all these facilities must be put in place so that we really talk about a correctional facility and service which is there. The other issue which Hon. Maranyika spoke about is that they are released and they are back again. One of the things which I did when I was in prison, I observed that most people in prison do not deserve to be in prison. It is over a maintenance issue, or fine. So, I then decided to pay their bail, or fine. Each time they saw me coming back, they will be so happy that some more funds are going to be released, they say Cde T. Mliswa is coming. Some will say that I heard you helped this person; you gave them US$15 can you help me also. I will say yes then they will say but we are crowded here and surely do somebody have to be in jail for US$10 to US$15 fine. They do not have it. I simply said I will create a house on my farm and help others who are coming out to come to my farm.
Unfortunately, some are hard core criminals one of them was an armed robber but he was the sweetest person in prison. I said no I want to pay your bail and find a lawyer for you. I told him that you will work on my farm then the next thing after 4 days, he was not there, he was back in town and the next thing he was in jail. I went to see him and he said to me you did you part but I am better here, I am hard core, my freedom is here, I am worried when I am out there, he had his leg shot and he said when I am out there my leg will be shot again. So, I am safer here, you did your part and I thank you for it but allow me to be here, I am safer here. So, those half way homes are good because you do not throw them out to the people, it is where you try and get them to connect with the people. So just somebody being in prison for 5 years going out there to mix with people, there is stigmatization. People have got this whole thinking that imbavha, auya kuzoba. So, anything that is stolen, the first thing that they think about is the person who was released from prison. So, what have we done to create those halfway houses? It is something which I thought Hon. Mataranyika’s point was the reason why they are constantly coming in and out. They must have a facility where they can be welcomed by people who are trained and to say okay, this person’s profession is a. b. c. d. This person would have graduated with a certain degree or diploma; you find them a job. They go back to Government institutions where they must be able to work and able to find themselves slowly without that it becomes quite difficult at the end of the day. On the issue of the parole board, the board in itself it is quite critical. It is critical in that it will help in showing that people can appear before the parole board. Without that being in place, it talks about the other people who are in prison who have lesser crimes who can be on parole and can be released and so forth. Amnesty is there through the President but there is going to be something in place. We cannot be waiting for amnesty and so forth….
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are left with three minutes.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. It is something which I think has got to be done quickly and you have got a number of competent people, the composition of judges who are retired and probably involve this very same House in having a member sitting on it. I am saying this because we equally make laws, especially one from the Committee of Justice and so forth. That will also help, because we also make laws, we must also make sure that laws are being implemented. Representing Parliament is making sure that there is an implementation of the laws that we make. The other thing is that we make a lot of laws Mr. Speaker Sir and they never see the end of the day. That will be my contribution Mr. Speaker Sir. That is a real issue that needs to be taken seriously.
Mr. Speaker, resources are also critical, I am glad the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is here. I would want to understand if the area where central prison was more less evaluated, how much would it cost and will that be enough to go and set up a whole new prison where Government gives land and so forth. So, it is food for thought, I do not think it is something that he can answer now. I think it is something worth considering so that when this is presented here, there is that issue of resources. Thank you Mr. Speaker.
HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me this opportunity to debate on this particular Bill. Let me start by thanking the Hon. Minister of Justice for bringing this Bill before Parliament. Indeed, the Prison Act deserve to be repealed and replaced with a new Act. I want to thank Hon. Mataranyika and his Committee for a good analysis of the Bill. I just want to start by saying that there are things that we needed to see in the Bill but I will start from the technical issues. We intent to replace this Bill with the Prison and Correction Services Bill but if you check in the Bill there is no transitional clause which is supposed to be there whenever you are repealing an Act and replacing it. I think that omission needs to be dealt with.
There are also technical issues, I know that you want to move from Prison Officers to Correction Officers. I think it is the change of terminology. When I was checking on the Bill, you will then realise that whilst the repeal is there but I think on drafting there were times when the term prison officer was left in the Bill, I think that needs to be sorted. On a fundamental issue, Section 50 (5) of the Constitution gives certain rights to prisoners but what we noticed is that in this Bill, there is no clause which specifically talks about the rights of prisoners. When we come to the Committee Stage, we need the Hon. Minister to ensure that there is actually a standalone clause that talks in respect of the prisoners’ rights.
The other issue which needs to be looked into is the power of the Minister. If you check the Constitution 229 (4), it gives the Minister broad policy directives. If you read the Bill, it sought to give the Minister powers to allow the Commissioner General to act subject to Ministerial directives which if you read it, it appears as if it gives the Minister the powers to micro-manage the Commissioner General. I think the wording should actually tally with what is provided for in the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is an issue which I also believe is critical. I note in the Bill there is a question of discipline, prison members also need to go under various disciplinary measures. I actually thought that if you check the Bill, it actually says that the language which will be used is English and then it says that the person that will decide whether or not to deserve an interpreter should actually be the accused. I think that needs to be sorted rather than to just leave it to the board to make a determination. If a person wants to present his or her case in vernacular that is Shona, Ndebele and so on, let the person demands that. The other issue which I think is commendable is the issue of the State parole board, I think it is very important, it is actually a move in the right direction. The Bill does not specifically state how the appointment of the chairperson and also the vice chairperson of that board will be done. More importantly, I think the Bill should also go further to then make sure that we have got a provisional parole board so that we do not have a challenge where everything has to end up coming to Harare. Let us make sure that the powers are actually decentralized to the various provincial boards.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to say that this is the right direction but also the Minister should also take cognisance of what the Portfolio Committee has suggested. We should be having a fruitful discussion when we come to the Committee Stage in respect of refining this Bill. I thank you.
HON. BITI: Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to add my voice in the second reading session of the Prisons and Correctional Bill. Mr. Speaker the introduction of this new Bill was long overdue. It was long overdue because the new Constitution which came into being in 2013 shifts the focus of our penal regime from one of punishment, what the Romans called the lex talionis , an eye for an eye, if you kill me, I must kill you, if you cut my limb I must cut your limp to a penal regime based on correction, based on restoration, and vindication of the offender. It shifts the penal regime from the criminal philosophy of revenge to the philosophy of restoration and rehabilitation. So, our criminal justice system actually needs to entrench that throughout. So, even before you go to the Prisons and Correctional Bill, that philosophy actually needs to be embedded in the criminal justice system.
Last week Mr. Speaker Sir, I sat in the criminal trial of our colleague, Hon. Job Sikhala who was convicted of obstruction of justice. It was clear in that court room, that the jurisprudence has not moved to the penal philosophy engendered by this Constitution - that of correction, restitution, rehabilitation of the offender, and that of reconciliation of the offender. It is still that punitive mentality. I know that the Government has tried. I know that at some stage, a philosophy that any person found guilty of an offence, we should consider a non-custodial sentence, in particular community service. We have lost that and I know that Justice Garwe, when he was Judge President, did a lot of work on alternative forms of sentencing.
At that time, we were operating under the old Constitution. Now, we have a new Constitution that actually tells us that the purpose of penalty is not revenge, is not the lex talionis which makes the whole world blind but correction, restitution, reconciliation and rehabilitation. So, I would like Mr. Speaker, to see a synergy, a linking and not a decoupling of that philosophy; not just when it comes to the prison authorities but also what is happening in our courts. I do not think that our courts are practicing restitution, rehabilitation, reconciliation and correctional mentality. We are still stuck in the old mindset of punishment, punishment and punishment.
Mr. Speaker, the reason why we moved to correctional is because particularly in Zimbabwe, by far the majority of crimes and convictions are crimes of poverty. A father will steal a loaf of bread because, as I said before, 79% of our people are in poverty and most of our people are unemployed, so people are going to steal. We have prisons crowded with offenders who are in fact pleas of poverty. So therefore, it makes sense that the criminal justice system must be kinder and humane.
Mr. Speaker, I think and agree with the Committee’s Chair, that we must insert Sections 207 and 208 of the Constitution and remind the Prisons and Correctional Service that as a security institution, it is bound by the Constitution. It is bound by the scrutiny and oversight functions of Parliament and that it is bound by the principles of constitutionalism and the rule of law. I also support the call that was made by Hon. Mushoriwa that the rights of prisoners that are codified in Section 50, he could say Section 70, should also be included in the Bill so that there is no ambiguity at all that I have got a right to be visited, that a prisoner has the right to see his priest, medical practitioner and so forth. Those rights should be there.
The other rights Mr. Speaker, which I think we ought to consider; the law is evolving and I know the Hon. Minister will agree with me. I think we should seriously consider giving prisoners the right to vote because when you are convicted, you do not cease to be a citizen. Section 67 of the Constitution says, ‘Every citizen has a right to vote, to participate in politics.’ So, I would like to appeal to the Hon. Minister that we incorporate the right to vote for all prisoners.
I also Mr. Speaker, want to make another point that the majority of our prisons were built during the colonial regime when they were created for Africans, to punish Africans particularly nationalist Africans. Chikurubi Prison Mr. Speaker, is not fit for human habitation, it is not even fit for the pigs that I look after and keep in Dotito there – it is not fit. The infrastructure we have masquerading as prisons is not prisons at all, they are substandard colonial sobriquets that have no right to exist 44 years after independence. They were created to house nationalists like Chikerema, the Nkomos of this world, the Mugabes of this world, the Morton Maliangas of this world, the George Nyandoros of this world, the Lookout Masukus of this world.
I submit Mr. Speaker that we should have destroyed a lot of that infrastructure at Independence in 1980 and built new prison facilities. One of the things that the Bill talks about is Open Prisons. Open Prisons are excellent, and they are consistent with human rights, but if we are going to keep the current prisons Mr. Speaker Sir, let us improve the quality of life of the prison. The right to human dignity codified in Section 51 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe is not suspended because you have now become an inmate. The right to human dignity means that you are entitled to good and adequate food, and the right to human dignity means that you are entitled to sleep on a bed. There is no prison in Zimbabwe with a bed, we sleep on the floor Mr. Speaker.
At Block C, Harare Remand, there is what they call bhemba. So, munorara kunge zvima bhemba and you have to appoint a captain in every row. The captain will say turn left then you all have to turn left, muchirara makadayi, so muchifemerana mugotsi. Mr. Speaker, that is not good enough. Why can we not have beds in prisons? Why can we not have televisions in prison? Why can we not have warm water in prison? Muchando vanhu vanongo pfekedzwa nekugezeswa zvimvura zvinotonhora yet it does not cost a lot of money. I even submit Mr. Speaker that the right to human dignity includes the right to conjugal rights and if a prisoner is married and is incarcerated, why can he not enjoy his conjugal rights? We can give him a condom but he should exercise his right to conjugal rights in prison maybe once a year or once in six months – [Laughter.] – I am told Mr. Speaker that there are other countries that allow conjugal rights every week – [Laughter.] – The point I am making Mr. Speaker …
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, you are right, it is every week.
HON. BITI: Thank you for supporting me Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Minister is listening. Conjugal rights must be respected, beds must be provided, and clean clothes must be provided in prisons.
The fourth issue I want to talk about is parole Mr. Speaker. Number one, let us extend parole to all prisoners including those who have been convicted of murder. I am one of those people Mr. Speaker, who feels strongly that capital punishment should be abolished. Capital punishment should be abolished in Zimbabwe and I am glad that President Mnangagwa supports the abolishment of capital punishment in Zimbabwe. On 17th October, 2014, I went to his office when he was still the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. He told me of a story of what happened to him when he was on death row at Harare Central Prison in the 60s.
One of the cruelest things about waiting for the death row Madam Speaker Maám, is you do not know when you are going to be executed. So, you sit there and when the door opens, you think it is you and you develop what scientists call ‘the death row syndrome’. This is schizophrenia or fear that I am the next one because they do not tell you which prisoner they are going to execute. So, I strongly believe and support those who gave evidence to this Committee that capital punishment should be abolished. It is cruel, degrading and offends Section 53 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe, not only that Mr. Speaker, but to the extent that the law now permits the execution of men not women. It means it is also infringing the equality provision of our Constitution which says we must treat everyone equally. I am not saying we should kill women; I am saying if we are not killing women, we should also not kill men.
If you have been in a prison in Zimbabwe and I have been in prison several times, surely if you spend 10 years at Chikurubi Madam Speaker, kutofa kurinani because the conditions are substandard. So let us abolish capital punishment which brings me to the issue or parole.
Madam Speaker, there is a judgement which I was privileged to appear. The case is called Obedia Makoni versus Commissioner of Prisons. It is judgement number CCZ 8 of 2016. In that judgement, the Constitutional Court held that it was unconstitutional to send someone to prison without prospects of getting out, without the opportunity of a parole. So I urge the Minister that the introduction of the parole board in this Bill is a very good thing, but let us give it real powers and let us democratise it. Let us have parole boards in every province if not in every district. Our prisons have got over 70 000 prisoners. They are overcrowded. The Minister knows that and the Minister is faced on a day to day basis by calls from the Commissioner of Prisons who is saying my people do not have food, my people do not have uniforms. The last time I was at Harare Remand Prison we did not have water and the Government had to dig boreholes there. So, the parole board should be democratised by making sure that we have many parole boards.
Secondly Madam Speaker, every prisoner should be eligible for parole. They should not be any category of prisoners that are not eligible for parole. Thirdly, the parole board must be given powers of monitoring what happens to prisoners after they have been granted parole to ensure that there is no return. In some countries, Madam Speaker, the parole board actually looks for employment for potential candidates. It actually finds jobs for these prisoners because in many times, the temptation of recommitment is there. They commit crimes again, you heard from Hon. Mliswa that one of the inmates he stayed with went back. So those people either commit crimes again or actually commit suicide because you are so used to prison walls, you become institutionalised. I am sure Madam Speaker, you have watched the brilliant movie called the Shawshank Redemption staring Morgan Freeman and Tim Robins. A brilliant movie on life in prison. They commit suicide because you become institutionalised, you become part of the wall. So parole becomes important in deinstitutionalising the institutionalised prison. So we urge the Minister to give powers to the parole board so that it can also oversee the integration of the prison in society.
We also need clarification because some sections of the Bill speak to the Minister having final say on the recommendations of the parole board and some sections say the Commission. Is it the Commission or the prison? I think the Commission should have powers but the Minister should have an overriding power of appeal. He is the Minister after all and this is an executive function.
Fourthly Madam Speaker, the Constitution provides for clemency and mercy. In the Constitution, the President is given the power. The law treats clemency and pardon as discretionary issues that are given to the President. Yes, the President is given powers but let us make it a process because in other countries, lawyers actually choose to ask for clemency and mercy from the President. So let us make it a judicial process which actually defines what kind of application you can make because it is a remedy Madam Speaker. Let us formalise it so that it becomes an actual remedy.
In the case of Cuthbert Chawira and another versus the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs – it is a constitutional court case in which over 20 prisoners who had spent more than four years and above, some of them 20 years, went to the Constitutional Court and argues that waiting for death row was cruel and degrading, a similar argument that had been made many years ago in the Catholic Commission for Peace and Justice case. The Constitutional Court said but you have got a domestic remedy, you can ask for pardon and clemency from the President. So if the court has regarded that as a domestic remedy then the domestic remedy must be given teeth. It actually must be an enforceable remedy. So Hon. Minister, I appeal that we give more teeth to that remedy.
The next issue that I want to speak about Madam Speaker is the issue of solitary confinement. Why do we need prisoners to be subjected to solitary confinement? They are subjected to solitary confinement for 23 hours a day. They are given 30 minutes right to exercise in the morning and 30 minutes right of exercise in the evening. It is archaic. Prisoners should mingle including death row prisoners. So we should outlaw solitary confinement.
Lastly Madam Speaker, the right to education. In 2008 when I lived at Harare Central Prison, they allowed me to bring books. So, I actually started teaching and playing chess and I think we should legalise the right to education in prisons. The Bill speaks about the right to receive literature from outside, I think it must be more explicit that not only do you have the right to receive literature but you actually have a right to pursue education and a vocation when you are in prison. If you can sing like Alick Macheso, let the prison allow your talent to blossom. If you can sprint like Artwell Mandaza, let the prison give you that talent. If you want to be a nurse or nurse aid in prison, let the prison give you that talent. Remember Madam Speaker, now the focus is now on restitution, restoration or rehabilitation and correction.
Then we have got the issue of children Madam Speaker. I think the law should revisit the issue of mothers who are detained with their babies. There is something terribly wrong with that. The mother commits an offence, the child who is suckling goes and you find her crying. At Chikurubi there is a female section. There is now an ECD there, a learning centre not for children of the prison guards now called correctional officers in this Bill, but of the mothers who are in prison. The child has not committed any crime Madam Speaker. Then we have children offenders. I read in the Herald today about a 14-year-old boy who raped a 9-year-old girl and was imprisoned. The Constitution does not allow that, but we do not have an answer because some of the children zvinhinhi. We have outlawed the Constitutional Court in the case of the State versus Charemba which has applauded whipping of juveniles as punishment. So, some officers are imprisoning them. The Constitution does not allow that, but we still have to balance with the societal needs that recognise that there are children who are actually committing crimes. So, I urge the Minister and this august House that let us revisit the issue of child sentencing and penial justice so that we maintain the spirit of protecting the children which is codified in section 81 of the Constitution.
So, Madam Speaker, this is a progressive Bill. It is a good starting point but there are a lot of things we can do to improve the same particularly around the prisoner’s rights, the parole system and around ensuring that the right to human dignity is maintained which is why I pushed the right of prisoners to conjugal rights and the right of prisoners to voting. I thank you very much Madam Speaker.
HON. B. DUBE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to thank my chairperson of the Committee for presenting before you a very sound report on the progress that we intent to see as Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe being the only home that we have and which we must be able to make sure that all the laws and processes conform to making it the best that it can ever be.
I will quickly go to the issues relating to the qualifications and standards of the prison officers themselves. In the inquiry on this Bill, visits were also done which indicated something that is very terrible, where actually our officers are also living in the same conditions, as if they have committed offences. The conditions and standards are not good at all. That is not what we intent to see. We cannot expect better for the prisoners, when we do not expect to do better for those who look after them. So, it becomes a very important issue to then say, how do we standardise and upgrade their levels.
In the report it is clear that we are saying these people are now officers who are supposed to have specific qualifications that enable them to function as correctional officers as opposed to guards. Our officers are not supposed to be guards. Those people are just following behind prisoners and just checking that the prisoners do not escape but we are supposed to have a system that makes them the people that model and mentor our people so that they come back as better people in society.
So, what is it that we must always bear in mind as human beings? That place which call prison is a potential home for everyone, especially politicians. It is a potential place where you can find it as your home at any given time. I am happy that at one time I heard someone who was preaching and he was actually mocking lawyers and stuff. I was later shocked to see them two weeks down the line that preacher was actually escorted by four lawyers going to court and applying for bail and they were denied. They went there for a while and when they came out, I saw them now talking better.
We have also heard Ministers before who have come and go – now I want to thank Hon. Ziyambi for being a responsible Minister. We have had Minister who came and gone without even trying to correct these things because they never thought it was an issue but it is fortunate or unfortunate that some of the Ministers or former Ministers have also gone through that place. Now they know what it is like. The point that I am trying to make is that what we must be able to do is to make sure that our prisons are correctional if possible because to err is human. People commit offences for various reasons and at times for no reasons at all such that you may just need to sit down with that person, tell them what life is about and they become a better person.
So, what is it that we want to see in our prisons? We want to see our prisons having the better standards in terms of sanitation and all the other facilities that are necessary to rehabilitate a human being. We are supposed to go past the consequential theory of punishment where we are saying every human being that has committed an offence must be punished in such a way that the society is more like revenging for that. That is old model, that is something that we have passed through. We are supposed now to be doing our things in a modern way where we are actually supposed to then say, as society what is it that as society we did not do right that cause people to possibly go to prison? Whilst their there, what is it that we can do better so that when they come out, they come out as better persons. I will tell you that we have a lot of potential in prisons of people who are capable of being corrected and doing better when they come out of prison.
As a result, our visit to Hwahwa Young Offenders actually showed us something that was shocking. We have had students passing their A Levels, in prison. Imagine they pass their A Levels with better qualifications such that if our facilities would allow that so that it can be expanded and we have all our prisons having that young offenders section where people will then go to school. They pass their O Levels and A Levels; they will go to university. May be their sentence was five years, in the end of the five years, they are coming out with a degree. We should also come up with facilities outside – I remember our debate was also this issue of previous convictions which was also an impediment. This is where when people are now being vetted for Government jobs, the Government is requiring that people should not have previous convictions yet at the same time it is the same Government that has had a correctional service there. Those are the things that we must look at and say, why would Government refuse a person that you are accommodating and correcting yourself? Now when they are coming out with a degree, a diploma or with just their O Level qualification and they can sweep well at a Government complex because they have been reformed, why do you now have to deny them on the basis that they have a previous conviction.
A previous conviction must only be brought about at the time when they are committing a second offence. You will then say you are an unrepentant person because we have checked and we have found that you have a previous conviction. It must not be used as a prejudice for potential of a future life. We believe that our prisons are able to correct. I am happy that we met those officers who are responsible for the correctional part in prison. Although with limited resources, we have seen what they are capable of doing. By interviewing prisoners, we have actually realised that they were benefiting more. The Chaplins and other officers there are doing a wonderful job. All we need to do is to make sure that we give them an enabling environment so that they discharge of their mandate excellently.
I want to thank the leadership in the prisons and correctional services. They are trying their best under difficult circumstances. We went to Bindura and we went to the farm. We saw acres which are being planted by prisoners, not as form of punishment like before, zvainzi mabhanditi anenge achifondoka, trying to do mechanised farming where they are using their equipment doing everything right. When that person is coming out, those are the people that we want to then see as A2 farmers, where Government may then identify them, give them offer letters and they start farming from what they would have learnt. Prisons are doing an excellent job and we are betraying them by not making necessary other facilities, especially from the finance side to finance the Ministry of Justice so well so that these things are speeded up and they are refined. I can tell you that through this Bill, we may be able to go very far in terms of making sure that Zimbabwe is a better place and that our prisons are better places for those who are there and those who are outside.
Remember, when you are outside and your relative is in, in spirit you are together. So, it is very important to also get to know that has my relative eaten today? Have they taken a bath; have they not been beaten but I am happy that that tendency of beating prisoners is now rare. In the prisons that we visited, they are actually exhibiting that friendly relationships where the officers and the prisoners are actually relating well as human beings. All that I want to say is let us put in place the necessary facilities that allow for something to continuously improve in the prisons, especially in terms of accommodation.
The relating to the issues on parole, it is my view that every person is entitled to a second chance and every element of justice must be blended with mercy. There is no need to continue to be angry about those people who have offended us or who have offended the community, if they are able to be rehabilitated. Let us give them a chance so, prisons officials can then be able to make continuous assessment of the behaviors of the people there and also make necessary recommendations to the board and people be given a chance to come out and live better lives. The clemency on mercy that is the prerogative of the President must actually be improved in the sense that we must be able to then say to those people who are there for very long periods or who are there waiting death sentences, they must be able to have a proper and clear facility of applying so that the President may exercise his discretion in a judicial manner. When the President was given that function, although he is an Executive, they were given because when the President was given that function, although he is a member of the Executive, when they were given that function to give clemency or mercy, they were given a quasi-judicial function and that quasi-judicial function must be informed by relevant necessary information.
It is my view that we must open up like what happened in South Africa. It must be opened up and evidence presented so that when you see someone being pardoned, you are able to understand when and how they were pardoned and when you see them being given clemency or mercy, you must know. I think the case of Pretorius is a clear demonstration on how these things can function. Where they are not done well, they can be reviewed and somebody can go back and where they have been done right, somebody goes out.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, I want to just say we want to thank the sponsor of this Bill, the Ministry of Justice for coming up with something that is proactive, that is able to show us that there is future for Zimbabwe and our prisons are capable of coming up with something that is nice. For open prisons, I think it is a good model although there is need for more transparency on the qualifications and staff so that people would know whether they qualify or not and how do I qualify? How do I have to qualify but by and large, I believe that this is a good starting point where we are.
We want to support the Ministry of Justice and support the Prison and Correctional Services Department with all the necessary equipment that will enable them to discharge of this new constitutional mandate of not being guards, but being correctional officers and being the friends of our relatives there. They should be the potential friends of the majority of the people who are in politics because chances of getting there are so high. So we do not want to find ourselves in trouble. Let us improve these areas so that if it happens to us one day, we will not be able to cry foul because some of these things we should have done them better.
In conclusion, we used to have a Minister of Home Affairs who when a debate was made relating to cells in the police stations, the Minister answered very rudely. It was Hon. Minister Chombo then and he was saying it was not necessary and he was bragging but it was unfortunate that he became one of the key customers in that area and being there for a long time. When he came out, I read a newspaper where he wrote a long article chronicling everything that he had experienced and it became apparent and clear that when he was Minister, he was supposed to have just done certain things rights. I want to implore Hon. Ziyambi and also Hon. Mataranyika for making sure they spearhead this particular process which also enables people to prepare for certain eventualities that may happen and we do not want to find yourself in trouble. Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. MARKHAM: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. Most of the points I had have been covered. However, I would like to just labour on the rehabilitation of prisoners. I think the Bill does cover certain issues. Most prisons were designed to have a farm around them and being an agriculture-based economy, I think we should be looking in the Bill with these farms being a part of prison life. It is a therapy and a rehabilitation for prisoners most of which come from a rural home or something. I think it is absolutely appalling that our current state of our prisons does not have beds and they rely on the family.
The issue is with the family. Once someone has been in prison, the burden falls on the family not only because they have lost their bread winner but more importantly, they actually have to support the prisoner, whether it is on food, medical or whether it is on news, the access to the prisoner is another major issue we have. The access is, while it is a right, it is very difficult for one to get there. Once you are there, when you go and see a prisoner you can wait up to three hours just to be let in. That is the problem that we have between the Bill and what is actually implemented; if the Minister could look at better implementation of what the Bill needs.
In general, I am very happy with the Bill and I would just like to add one more point and that is on tracking of prisoners. I believe prisoners should be let out earlier and tracked. The Bulawayo board was covered by Hon. Biti and Hon. Mushoriwa. The Bulawayo board should be looking at the employment for prisoners, tracking of prisoners that are out on a period of time just to encourage good behaviour and reintroduce them into society, particularly for those that are being there for a long time. With that, I thank you.
(v) *HON. MUSARURWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just want to add my voice to what has been said by Hon. Markham that when we talk about rehabilitation, what we will be talking about is to prepare the prisoner to live a better life after their period of incarceration. When the prisoners are being released, they should be given start-up packs so that when they rejoin the community, they are able to start something unlike the case with them leaving without anything being given. They do not have anywhere to start from.
I am in agreement with the previous speakers who spoke on the issue of solitary confinement. I understand it much better. I was in that solitary confinement for more than 36 months in Chikurubi. It is my wish that no Zimbabwean shall ever experience what I experienced during the time when I was in solitary confinement. I ask that it be repealed. In terms of parole, I am one person who was released on amnesty. I urge that parole should not be discriminatory in terms of gender or in terms of the offence that they have committed, whether it is murder or theft.
If it is parole, everyone should be entitled to a parole. Capital punishment, I strongly support that it be abolished and it should not be found within our law books. In 2018, I went to court and requested that prisoners be allowed to vote and I also requested that they have access to conjugal rights but it was turned down in the High Court until we got to the Supreme Court. It was a plea that prisoners as human beings also have the rights.
I want to move to the issue of correctional services officers. These correctional service officers should have decent accommodation and decent uniforms. It is not pleasing to see a prison officer envying the life of a prisoner because they are not being adequately remunerated. If you go to Chikurubi and you see the residents of our prison officers, you could even cry. Still on that point, in terms of their residences, the prisoners as you and me are both women in this time of winter, it will be so cold and there are no mattresses; they sleep on the floor. The type of blankets that the prisoners have in Chikurubi is that you cannot even give that particular type of a blanket to your dog during winter.
The conditions of the prisoners should be improved and they should be given good blankets, good clothes and decent places to sleep as well as good food. I would want to confess that from 2011 up to 2018, there was a time when you could count the type of nutritious food that you had eaten. I think I had nutritious food for about fifty times in those seven years. Meat is a luxury and there is no margarine that is enjoyed by prisoners. It is our plea that when the Vote for the Ministry of Justice is presented, it should take this into consideration. It does not matter whether you are incarcerated or not, they are serving their sentences, they are still human beings and they should be treated in a humane manner.
Prison farms are producing food. In previous occasions, I asked that prisoners be given modern forms of technology like tractors and all other farm machinery to be able to till the land and for harvesting processes. Right now, during harvest season, they use bare hands to harvest crops. We request that they should be given combine harvesters so that they use the modern machinery just like other people. Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI) the House adjourned at Twenty-Two Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 9th May, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
SWEARING IN OF A NEW MEMBER
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: On the 17th of April 2023, Parliament of Zimbabwe was notified by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) that Godfrey Gijima was appointed to be Senator by the ZANU PF Party to fill the vacancy that occurred following the death of Hon. Senator Oliver Mandishona Chidawu. The appointment is with effect from the 21st of March, 2023. Section 128 (1) of the Constitution of Zimbabwe provides that before a senator takes his or her seat in Parliament, the Senator must take oath of a senator as set out in the Schedule. Section 120 (a) (2) states that the oath must be taken before the Clerk of Parliament. I therefore, call upon the Clerk of Parliament to administer the oath of a senator to Senator Godfrey Gijima.
NEW MEMBER SWORN
THE ASSISTANT CLERK OF PARLIAMENT (MRS. NYAWO) thereupon administered the oath of affirmation of loyalty to Hon. Sen. Godfrey Gijima as required by law:– [HON. SENATORS: Hear, hear.].
VISITORS IN THE PRESIDENT OF SENATE’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: The Justice Committee is hosting the Namibian Parliament Standing Committee on Constitutional and Legal Affairs. They are present in the gallery. You are welcome.
SWITCHING OFF OF CELLPHONES
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Hon. Senators are reminded to put their phones on silent or better switch them off.
MOTION
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION FOR THE 7TH MAY 2022 BY-ELECTION
First Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission for the 7th May, 2022 by-election.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: Mr. President, I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
MOTION
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Second Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the Presidential Speech.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I thank you Mr. President for the opportunity you have given me to add my voice on this motion. I also want to thank the mover of this motion. The President delivered a comprehensive speech which touched on the different departments of Government but I want to dwell on the issue of our economy as a country. Our economy is not rising and the people of Zimbabwe, employed or not employed, are finding it very difficult to sustain their livelihood.
We recall that a short while ago, our civil servants’ salaries were increased by 100% but if you look at the way prices of commodities have increased, we regret having that increase. If you look at how prices of drugs in pharmacies have increased, you would rather prefer to die due to stress from the cost of living and how it is now difficult to access the basic commodities.
For example, teachers’ salaries were increased from RTG$45 000 to $75 000 but the increment is not significant at all if you consider that one needs more than RTG$100 000 to buy BP medication. This means a person who earns a teacher’s salary can access medication for chronic disease and will choose to live by other means such as traditional herbs or prayers from prophets. Our economy has deteriorated and failed to improve. So, as a country we should find other ways to deal with this because for us to increase the salaries, it will still result in price increases and inflation from what it currently is. Today as we speak, the rate was RTG$2 500 per US$1 in some shops which I visited. This points to the appalling state of our economy at the moment.
We do not know what the Minister of Finance will do. He and the Governor of Reserve Bank have done their best but the problem persists. If it is so difficult for the employed what of those who are not employed and the vendors. Zimbabwe is endowed with a lot of resources such as platinum, gold and now large deposits of lithium. Even though the country has a lot of resources, the economy is just stagnant and not reacting at all. Therefore, we should put our heads together so that we can solve these problems. In the industries, people are crying and civil servants are crying as well because of the economy. Thank you.
+HON. SEN. KHUMALO: Firstly, I would like to thank the President for the speech he delivered and trying to make sure that we all have hope in getting the economy up but what is disappointing is that he is not getting the support he requires. In our country, we need to work together and have other people that come through to tell you that certain things are not in position. If you realise that in our country we have quite a number of roads that are in bad shape, it shows that the country is not in a good shape. Quite a number of roads are really bad. A number of our cars are broken down because of the bad shape of the roads in our rural areas and the same applies to roads in urban areas. What kind of a country is this?
Looking at our economy, it continues to devaluate on daily basis. Even when one has paid and they go to the markets to change their RTGs to USD, it is a shame that the equivalent that one is going to get is equivalent to nothing. What is it that one can do with that kind of money when they have families and grandchildren to look after and you are a teacher? There are hospital bills, food to take care of but this kind of money does not take one anywhere. Monthly we pay medical aid fees but in most places where medical aid like Premier is applicable, all those hospitals are closed.
It is better for those who drive than pedestrians because you are referred to hospitals that are very far away from cities. You realise that despite the fact that you are contributing to medical aid, each time you go to a doctor or hospital, you are required to pay consultation and you are expected to also buy drugs. The funds that are being collected for medical bills are just too much.
Looking at our issue as Members of Parliament, because we are Honourable Members, we are expected to have everything in place but we have a big challenge. Our Parliament is failing to pay accommodation bills and we are now made to stay at Pandhari. This means that we are a shame as a country. We have a serious problem. When I am at home, I live a comfortable life but when I come to work, I am made to stay at Pandhari Lodge where we are eating unrefined roller meal. Personally, I do not eat such a kind of sadza. The shower cubicle is too small, big people like myself do not fit in that shower set-up – very low standards. Yes, the President said a lot of things but looking at our way of life, we really need to be taken seriously and with respect as Hon. Members of Parliament, we cannot be staying at such substandard lodges, a place that looks like a ruin. It looks like we are now subsidising Parliament because we are using our own fuel from Parliament building to and from Pandhari Lodge. May we have this issue solved with urgency?
Let me now talk about school children. The Government has for a long time indicated that school children are not supposed to be expelled because of lack of school fees but right now we hear that children are being expelled due to non-payment of school fees. Despite the efforts by the Government to ban extra lessons, most schools are ignoring that call and those parents without money to pay for the extra lessons suffer because their children will always lag behind. It also means that their problems as unprivileged families will continue because if they are not educated, their children will also remain uneducated and the poverty cycle will continue. Therefore, the Government should see to it that they resuscitate our economy and the education sector.
Our country is rich; for example, the number of people who are being arrested in the process of migrating to other countries with gold are doing so for their pockets. They forget that this gold should be benefiting every citizen of this country. I saw one person who was putting on a bandage on their leg pretending like someone who is crippled yet they were hiding gold. All these people who are doing these malpractices are not arrested because there are officials involved in the same corrupt issues.
Right now, if you move around the country, there are sewerage leaks all over. I was reading somewhere where it was saying that in Pumula, Bulawayo, people have now dug some holes in their homes so that they use those holes as latrines because their sewer system is not running. What kind of life is this that people can no longer use their toilets? Children are playing in the sewerage streets; Zimbabwe is no longer a good country. Something should happen so that the challenges we are facing can change. Those who are rich continue to amass more wealth, there is no longer middle class; it is either that one is up there and the other one right at the bottom. People are struggling. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE (HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI): I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that Order of the Day, Number 3 on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order of the Day Number 7 has been disposed of.
HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
SUSTAINABLE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House;
MINDFUL that creating a sustainable health care system is essential in Zimbabwe;
NOTING that the Government of Zimbabwe has emphatically declared its desire and aspiration to achieve universal health coverage;
CONCERNED that health services are not accessible by many people, particularly in rural areas, due to inadequate funds that are allocated to the health sector;
COGNISANT that Zimbabwe made a commitment to honour the Abuja Declaration of allocating 15% of the National Budget to public health;
NOW, THEREFORE, this House calls upon the Government:
a) Through the Ministry of Finance, to honour the Abuja Declaration;
b) To focus more on preventive public health intervention; and
c) To disburse funds allocated to ministries, departments, and agencies, in particular the Ministry of Health and Child Care, expeditiously.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. Sustainable Health Financing in Zimbabwe
Mr. President, our health is our wealth and for this reason, the Government of Zimbabwe has emphatically declared its desire and aspiration for universal health coverage for all Zimbabweans by 2030. This ambition is primarily anchored on a sustainable national health financing framework.
Sources of Funding for the Health Sector
Mr. President, our health sector is largely financed by public funds in the form of taxes and revenues collected on behalf of Government under the Consolidated Revenue Fund. Further, our health sector is funded by external sources which primarily extend support to specific sectors and diseases such as the Global Fund for Tuberculosis (TB), Malaria, HIV and the private sector. The Global Fund, currently, has three active investments in Zimbabwe namely: - a) HIV grant of up to USD449 million; b) Tuberculosis (TB) grant of up to USD26 million and c) Malaria grant of up to USD63million.
Mr. President, this funding is allocated for 2021 to 2023 and supports Zimbabwe’s continued progress towards ending these three diseases as public health threats. Moreover, private funding is through voluntary private insurance, which covers less than 10% of the population mainly through employment contributions, corporate companies and out of pocket expenditure. The financing model in Zimbabwe is founded upon the National Health Financing Policy which outlines the various strategies for mobilising adequate resources, financial protection as well as effective, equitable and evidence-based allocation and utilisation of health resources. Zimbabwe, through the Abuja Declaration, committed to allocating 15% of the total budget to the health sector which, while remarkable progress has been made towards its attainment, has proved to be a challenge due to financial constraints. Yes, it is also true and worrying that our health system has not been adequately funded.
Mr. President, a trend analysis of how we domestically financed our health system reveals that over the past 10 years, allocations have been revolving around 8% which is below the Abuja target of 15%. This situation has been worsened by the erratic disbursement to all the public health providers. More so, over the past two decades, while out-of-pocket spending on health per capita has fallen from USD66.00 per person in 2010 to USD51.00 in 2019, it remains out of reach for most of the population and in particular, the aged, the disadvantaged, persons living with disabilities and also people in rural areas. Additionally, with the evident growing donor fatigue, external funding for other health programmes have been on a steady decline. We are, therefore, facing the imminent risk of having a paralysed health system if we do not act swiftly.
Mr. President, to that end, it is imperative that Government prioritises and or adopts the following measures: -
- Disbursement of non-wage funds to the relevant ministries,
departments and agencies earlier in the year to facilitate the efficient implementation of medium to long term health interventions.
- Strengthen the health financing coordinating mechanism to
allow for more efficient and effective prioritisation and utilisation of donor funds in a manner that is aligned with the overall goals and objectives of the Government.
- The urgent need for a robust and sustainable National Health
Insurance system that will substantially reduce our-of-pocket spending on health as well as prevent catastrophic health spending.
- Pursue more prudent utilisation of funds by focusing more on
preventive and public health interventions rather than curative cares as prevention is better than cure.
- Introduce sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes as a measure for
domestic resource mobilisation and the funds raised would be channelled towards the health sector. On this end, measures should be put in place to monitor that these funds are directed for the intended purpose.
Mr. President, lessons can also be drawn from Rwanda which implemented a robust health financing and insurance policy. The net effect of these polices has been the widespread reduction in the overall cost of accessing healthcare. In addition, the legislative framework has provided for the establishment of community-based health insurance systems that are localised and managed by the local community members. To that end, it is critical that we build upon these lessons and ensure that we continuously call for adequate and sustainable financing of our health sector.
It is pleasing to note that a lot of good work is also being done by the Ministry of Health and Child Care. Of note, is that, in partnership with the Zimbabwe National Army (ZNA) and working with communities such as the Vungu District in Midlands Province, the ministry constructed the Impala Clinic at Tovho Resettlement Area. Containing and vaccination against COVID-19 was a huge success as well. I thank you Mr. President.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I have just stood up to make a few contributions to what has been moved by Hon. Sen. Tongogara. It is a very painful motion because it is related to health matters. She has actually raised matters that should be attended to by Government. It touched on three diseases: T.B, malaria and HIV/AIDS. These have wreaked havoc in this country. As for HIV, we are grateful to the Government as it quickly conscientised people, which led to the saving of many people’s lives and it was not difficult for people to be helped. People were in denial because it was a new disease but the Government, through the Ministry of Health, continually conscientised people and it is no longer a problem now. We commend the Government for working on that to reduce infections.
We want to commend Hon. sEN. Tongogara for raising this matter. On the issue of T.B; it works hand-in-hand with HIV. You can be diagnosed with TB if you have HIV. However, the Government has managed to solve that problem because people are being helped medically, counselled on how to eat health and how to live. TB is still around but the Government is trying its level best to solve the problem. In Mt Darwin, there is a place called Ruya which has a prevalence of malaria going towards Mukumbura. The Ministry of Health sprays that area to disinfectant the household and also give mosquito nets because it is a malaria prone area. Partners helped us with these problems of malaria and HIV but as a country we need to put in place measure so that we can stand on our own so that we are able to fight those problems. We should not fall down because we no longer have partners.
Our problem as a country is in terms of the economy but I want to say if sanctions are not removed, our economy will continue on the downward trend. Everything is affected by sanctions in this country. Some countries are more developed than Zimbabwe because they do not have a problem with the West but we have a problem because of our land reform programme. As a country, we should raise our voice in unison against the removal of sanctions but if we do not raise our voices, whoever will come sanctions will be there.
We thank the Second Republic and Hon. Sen. Tongogara made some recommendations which we heard here. We see hospitals being given relevant infrastructure. We see on television even staffers confirming that they now have requisite resources even though we re under sanctions but the Second Republic has worked very hard. We commend it for that. Clinics are being built but right now they are concentrating on big hospitals that they should be properly equipped because the Government wants our health system to be of quality. For a country to develop, it should have a healthy workforce. The key to development is a healthy workforce.
Let us raise our voices on the removal of sanctions which are adversely affecting our economy so that we can also develop. Let us remove these sanctions. I would like to thank you Hon. Sen. Tongogara for your motion, it was quite pertinent. Our health sector is working very well under the Second Republic. We commend the Government so let us be in support of the Government and not oppose it. We have only one Zimbabwe. How can you run a country with sanctions? Let us raise our voices so that sanctions are removed. Our Vice President, Cde. (Rtd) Gen. Chiwengwa is trying his level best in the area of health, in particular, in areas of HIV/AIDS, T.B and malaria so that we deal with them once and for all. Thank you.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. CHIRONGOMA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
MOTION
PROMOTION OF DEVELOPMENTAL PROGRAMMES FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the sustainable management of waste.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10TH May, 2023.
MOTION
PROTECTION OF VICTIMS OF TRAFFICKING
Sixth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on measures to combat human trafficking.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI- HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023
MOTION
REPORT OF THE 145TH ASSEMBLY OF THE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION AND RELATED MEETINGS
Seventh Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the Report of the 145th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union and Related Meetings held in Kigali, Rwanda.
Question again proposed.
HON. SEN. SIPANI-HUNGWE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. SEN. D. M. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Wednesday, 10th May, 2023.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR MASHONALAND EAST PROVINCE, HON. SEN. MUNZVERENGWI, the Senate adjourned at Twenty-Five minutes past Three o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 5th April, 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following apologies:- Hon. C. D. G. N. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care; Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works; Hon. A. M. Masuka, Minister of Agriculture, Lands, Water, Fisheries and Rural Resettlement; Hon. O. C. Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs; Hon. Dr. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. E. Moyo, Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education; Hon. R. Maboyi-Mavhungu, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage; Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development; Hon. S. Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce and Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development as far as it relates to movement of aircrafts within and without our borders. What is Government policy in relation to freedom rights given to aircraft, airlines in particular the exotic ones or foreign ones without our borders to ferry passengers from Zimbabwe to another country and from one town in Zimbabwe to another town in Zimbabwe which promotes our domestic airlines?
What is Government policy as far as it relates to the movement rights of those aircrafts?
THE HON. SPEAKER: I do not seem to understand your question. Are you saying to what degree are foreign airlines allowed to advance and carry passengers within Zimbabwe?
HON. NDUNA: Yes, within Zimbabwe, it is called cabotage rights, outside Zimbabwe is from fifth freedom and seventh freedom, so those are rights apportioned to airlines.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Appreciated, the question is clear now.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. Let me also thank my fellow colleague Hon. Nduna who has actually given me the platform to articulate issues pertaining to fifth freedom rights as enshrined and…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Are you saying he is a fellow colleague as Hon. Minister or Member of Parliament.
HON. MHONA: Member of Parliament.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I see, I had a question of mistaken identity.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, and as a fellow student who is still learning the ropes to be an advocate. Thank you, Hon. Speaker Sir. He has given me the chance to elaborate on the fifth freedom rights which are given to airlines and Hon. Speaker, indeed, we have bilateral service agreements with different airlines and in certain instances, we then allow an airline to drop and pick passengers. In this particular instance, it will then promote easy movement of people where an airline would lend in a particular country and under normal circumstances, it has to pass through its town of origin. For instance, Ethiopian Airlines. I can just cite Ethiopian Airlines. As soon as it drops, it picks but it passes through Addis Ababa which is a standard procedure. If you follow what happened through the Victoria Lake where Ethiopian Airlines would then drop and also pick passengers in Bulawayo; this is also a right that can be accorded so that we allow easy movement of people. This is bilateral which can be arranged between airlines and I am happy that as a nation, as we are open to business, ‘Zimbabwe is open to business’, we also extend this fifth freedom rights to a number of airlines flying in our air space. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, seeing now that there is the rejuvenation of Air Zimbabwe after the procurement of the ERJ145 and the impending procurement of the same as stated by the Hon. Minister; would it please the Hon. Minister to now drop the cabotage right that has been offered to exotic or foreign airlines in order that we can now capacitate, augment and complement the business of Air Zimbabwe in order that it can use the aircraft it is procuring that it currently has optimally on the routes that have been stated, in particular those that deal with the fifth freedom rights and the cabotage rights.
HON. MHONA: Thank you Hon. Nduna for that follow up question. Hon. Speaker Sir, in the aviation sector, it is also very important to promote business in terms of competition so that in terms of pricing the airfares, we also have to be competitive. He has cited Air Zimbabwe in this instance and since we are saying we are open for business, there is no way we would also want to block other airlines from flying into our air space. Yes, it is a noble cause to say we need to protect our own but at the same time we also need to be competitive as an airline. I am happy that we will also be in a position to compete and make business sense at the end of the day. At this juncture, it would not be of good practice to the nation to say those airlines that were enjoying the fifth freedom rights will be withdrawn because we are now flying into the same air space. I would urge even our parastatal Air Zimbabwe to be competitive so that they also compete against those other airlines. I thank you Hon. Speaker.
HON. MUSANHI: As Zimbabwe, we cannot compete with the rest of the world though we try to be as fair as we can to these other airlines. We cannot compete with them as they are a step ahead of us. If we do not protect our own industry and allow the fifth freedom to these foreign airlines, it might as well mean that we do not have an airline and we would rather close than say we are opening it to fair competition with the rest of the world. I would like to know if Air Zimbabwe is able to compete with the open world in terms of business?
HON. MHONA: Let me start by thanking Hon. Musanhi for the supplementary question. Let me cite a good example like the RGM International Airport where we are capacitating our airport and upgrading it to be one of the best in the region. We are currently accommodating 2.5 million passengers and we are earmarking six million. Therefore, it means we will also enhance business, so it calls for players to participate in that space. This will assure and allay the fears of the Hon Member that there is enough business for anyone who is very competitive. At the end of the day we are not saying other airlines that are also flying into the country – because of our policy of engagement and re-engagement, we are calling for players to fly into the country. Firstly, it also buttresses the issue of tourism. There is no way we can invite players and also say you cannot carry passengers. We are saying we are open for business as a nation and we want to enhance our tourism sector thereby calling for more players to fly. We are also saying we will be having a state-of-the-art airport which will call for the wide bodied planes to land at the airport. This is a wake-up call to whoever is participating in the air space to be competitive. There is no way Air Zimbabwe can just ban other airlines and have passengers to themselves. We are saying to Air Zimbabwe, let us participate competitively on the market and make sure that business is viable. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. What is Government policy in terms of ensuring that village heads get their payments in terms of allowances they should get? We see throughout the country a lot of village heads who are not being paid. So what is government policy to ensure that all of them get these resources?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you very much Hon. Togarepi for that very important question. The policy with regards to payment to village heads is that they are paid timeously. These days we are paying them through SSB and to my recollection, all of them are paid on time. However, we have had incidences where most of village heads have not been accredited or registered with the Ministry mostly because we are doing a lot of resuscitations and yet there are village heads who have been appointed and we have boundary issues which have not yet been resolved though the village heads have been appointed. As such, they would not be registered in our data base, so they do not get paid. My Ministry however ensures that all registered village heads are paid their allowances and salaries on time. I thank you.
(v)HON. KASHIRI: I would like to find out from the Deputy Minister of Local Government, over and above the remuneration of the village heads they were promised some bicycles. How far has Government fulfilled this policy?
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Hon. Kashiri for that question. As far as the bicycles you mentioned, it is correct that the village heads are supposed to be getting bicycles. I vividly remember recommending that and it was approved about two weeks ago that the village heads get their bicycles and also the headmen are supposed to get motorbikes. That is in the works and they are all going to get that. Also, they are getting allowances backdated to March…
THE HON. SPEAKER: You are not connected Hon. Minister.
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. Speaker and thank you Hon. Kashiri for that follow up question. I agree with you that the village heads are supposed to get bicycles as all the paper work was done and I vividly remember that about a forty-night ago, I approved that they get the bicycles and also the headmen are supposed to get motorbikes. There is a back pay that is supposed to be coming to the village heads. We are also processing that they get that with the May pay.
In reference to the headmen who have not been installed, I know there is a backlog but we are trying to make sure that we go through province by province to make sure that all the headmen and the chiefs are installed in time. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. As it relates to identification of the headmen and sabhukus, how far are we in terms of giving them their regalia for identification purposes?
HON. CHOMBO: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker and thank you very much Hon. Nduna. I agree with you that we do not have enough regalia for our traditional leadership. My Ministry ordered 10 thousand pins for the village heads and we were expecting them last month. However, because of due diligence of the processes through the PMU, they have taken a little bit of delay but definitely, we are addressing that issue. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: My question Mr. Speaker is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I posed the question yesterday as a matter of national interest requesting for a ministerial statement by the Minister.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: I did not understand what you said about the ministerial statement.
*HON. NYABANI: I requested for a ministerial statement yesterday from the Minister concerning schools in rural areas that have been functional for 10 years but do not have centre numbers. Learners cannot sit for examinations at those schools, they have to walk for 10 to 15km just to write examinations yet the President said no place and no-one should be left behind. I wanted an explanation on what is happening. There are several schools where I come from where children have to walk a distance of 10km after writing examinations. I want to find out why those schools cannot be registered as examination centres and get centre numbers. That is my question.
The Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services (Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa) having stood up to respond to the question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you should be seated in that chair.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I also like to thank Hon. Nyabani who showed a passion for the people that he represents. I would like to confirm that Government is very much concerned about ensuring that every place has schools. Indeed, Government said no-one and no place should be left behind. No place or child is more important. All of them should get access to education. He referred to several schools and I feel that is a specific question. I believe the Ministry should look into that and find out the facts as to why such schools do not have centre number. There must be an investigation and I will request the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to come to this august House and respond to that question raised by Hon. Nyabani. I thank you.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Nyabani, are you satisfied?
HON. NYABANI: Yes, Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you.
HON. MAPHOSA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir. I think you must make a ruling. Yesterday, he was advised to ask it as a question and because the Minister is not there, the Leader of Government Business has said the Minister must come. Therefore, the Minister must come with a ministerial statement so that we get into the matter deeply and get clarification. I think you should give a ruling on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: In order not to confuse the situation, Hon. Nyabani should put it as written question giving specific schools that have not been registered in the area. Thank you very much. Hon. Maphosa, siyabonga for the clarification.
*HON. HWENDE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and since the Minister is not around, I will direct it to the Leader of the House.
THE HON. SPEAKER: It is my duty to do that, just ask your question.
*HON. HWENDE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is, what is Government policy with regards to ambassadors who charge fees to people for facilitating meeting the President when those people are supposed to bring investment to this country?
THE HON. SPEAKER: That question is very specific. If you know these people, you should have put forward a written question stating the ambassadors who are doing that.
HON. HWENDE: Ambassador Angels!
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Order! Sit down! Ambassador A and B are saying that any potential investor who needs an appointment with the President must pay so much.
HON. HWENDE: Hon. Speaker….
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Not all ambassadors do that.
*HON. HWENDE: Hon. Speaker, that is why I had asked what Government’s policy is with regards to Ambassadors who represent the country with regards to investment. I did not want to mention Urbert Angels’ name because it would become specific but he is the Ambassador who is charging US$200 000.00.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: You side tricked me Hon. Member –[Laughter.] –
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Government’s policy is to appoint Ambassadors to represent the country out there. If this question is specific, he should put it in writing and put in the evidence and we direct that to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I was an Ambassador for a long time. An Ambassador represents the needs of his or her country in accordance with the mandate that you are given by the President of your country; to put your country on the map and make sure that there is trade or export and make sure that there are good relations between the two countries.
*HON. HWENDE: Supplementary question Hon. Speaker…
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Does the supplementary question arise Hon. Hwende? The Minister has just told you what action you should take.
*HON. HWENDE: I thought the Minister should have said yes or no, Government’s policy does not allow Ambassadors to charge anything but just to look for investment for the country.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: She answered that question accordingly.
*HON. HWENDE: She did not go straight to the point.
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Hwende, ndimi manzvengwa nechiShona.
*HON. HWENDE: That it is not Government policy?
*THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes.
*HON. HWENDE: Then arrest those who are doing that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I think the Hon. Minister’s response was quite comprehensive.
HON. DR. LABODE: I am making reference to the Zimbabwe Statistics. Disaggregated data on the Distribution of Births by Age of Mother released during the launch of the Zimbabwe Statistical Agency (Zimstat) Vital Statistics Report shows that 700 girls aged 10 to 14 gave birth in 2022. What does this say about this country? Could the Minister of Health and Child Care bring a Ministerial Statement and tell us what strategy they have to curb this scourge of teenage pregnancies. A ten year old is not a teenager but a baby.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. MUTSVANGWA): This question touches a lot of Zimbabweans in particular a lot of women. The issue of teenage pregnancies is an issue which the whole country is seized with. The Government is seized with it and the Ministry of Health is putting a lot of strategies which they would need to articulate in this House. I think it is in order when the Hon. Member asked for a Ministerial Statement which will articulate step by step of what they are doing. To have 700 young girls aged 10 to 14 getting pregnant is very sad. A ten year old is a child and what has gone wrong with our people? This is an issue which is not going to be just dealt with by the Ministry of Health alone but inter-ministerial strategy. This is something which we need to understand from the Home Affairs Ministry to see how many people have been jailed or castrated if they need to be – [Laughter.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: Castrated! [HON. MEMBERS: Yes!]- We do not have that law Hon. Minister.
HON. MUTSVANGWA: It is very painful Hon. Speaker Sir. A ten-year-old is a baby and for any person in his right sense to actually take her as a woman, I think there is an element of madness which needs to be dealt with; an element of cruelty or animal behaviour which needs to be dealt with. Penalties should be quite high. I would obviously take this up with my colleagues. We need to get that report and I certainly agree with her so that at least we can work together as a country. It is about all of us as leaders in the areas where we live. It is also about us as parents to work together, united as Zimbabweans to fight against this evil.
HON. MAPHOSA: Supplementary…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, the Hon. Acting Leader of Government Business has agreed to deliver the message to the Minister responsible to present a Ministerial Statement on the issue and therefore a supplementary question cannot arise.
HON. MAPHOSA: It is no longer a supplementary question Hon. Speaker but an addition. Sorry Mr. Speaker Sir, if you can indulge me.
THE HON. SPEAKER: For a supplementary question?
HON. MAPHOSA: It is not that supplementary. I just want to make an addition – I want to add meat to the question so that when he responds on the Ministerial Statement, he will also touch on that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I will not ask what type of meat it is. Please proceed but be brief.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just want an addition on how they are going to deal with the child because we are saying a ten-year-old to fourteen years is a child. Whilst they are arresting the culprits, what measures are going to be put in place so that a child does not have a child? That is my issue. Thank you.
*HON. CHIWETU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My question is directed to the Minister of Home Affairs. People are now constructing their houses close to the kraal, but in the past they used to be built far away. The second issue is the solar panels that are being installed at clinics. They are also being stolen again by these thieves. I want to find out what the Hon. Minster can do to stop this? In the past, prevention of such thefts was due to functioning community policing. What is the plan in trying to revive this? Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND INFORMATION SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I would like to thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Chiwetu for that question that shows that he is in touch with the community. I was talking to somebody and I said I also lost my cattle to livestock thieves. I was touched by what you said. Government policy that is implemented by the Ministry of Home Affairs is to ensure that thieves are arrested regardless of what they steal - be it solar panels or livestock so that they are prosecuted according to the laws of this country depending on the crime committed. He spoke very well about community policing which is important because we belong to those communities and it is very important for each one of us to look after each other. I always refer to the liberation struggle where everyone had a duty because that was part of our slogan.
Therefore, community policing is very important because sometimes the police post will be far away. The community policing is very important because it assists in giving information that the police can use to enforce the law. It will be important for the Hon. Minister to specify what exactly is happening and we can pass on that question to Hon. Minister Kazembe when he comes. The Hon. Minister can come into this House and explain what they are doing in this country as well as the stealing of solar panels because this infrastructure is meant to benefit the community. I think it is very important for the community policing programme to be implemented. I thank you.
*HON. GOZHO: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for the response. My question is with regards to cattle rustlers. They connive with the police, even if you present evidence that the cattle have been sold to so and so, and the issue is swept under the carpet at the court.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): It appears your question looks more of an allegation. It does not have evidence that the Minister can respond and give you an appropriate response. Sorry about that.
*(v) HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Cattle is also associated everywhere with lack of identity. What has the Ministry done about national branding of all the cattle? If I see cattle anywhere, I will know and I just phone the national registrar of brands and I will know that the cattle belongs to so and so. What are we doing about national branding of all the cattle? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I hardly got the question but I suspect that the Hon. Member is suggesting that we should have a national branding policy for cattle. I suspect laws are made in this House. If the House feels that we should change existing laws, it should start from here.
(v)HON. MUDARIKWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the answer of the Minister is not satisfactory because the brands are there, the registrar of brands is there. It falls under his ambit, why can we not activate the registration of all the cattle through the national branding and the making of laws is an Executive responsibility? He must come to the House with a proposal of branding of all the cattle in Zimbabwe.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon. Minister, maybe can I just give you the main question so much that you might get a response of what the Hon. Member is actually asking. The main question concerns theft of livestock (mombe). That has actually led Hon. Mudarikwa to ask you a supplementary question. Thank you very much.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for such a pertinent question. Yes, it is worrisome, cattle theft is very worrisome and the police are doing their utmost best. In fact, currently we have got a number of roadblocks across the country to try and curb this challenge but I understand where the Hon. Member is coming from. It is an issue that we are seized with and the police do the utmost to ensure that we bring those culprits to book. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
(v) HON. KASHIRI: Hon. Speaker, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his response. Hon. Minister, on many instances we have seen Government reacting to sensitive issues and this is one such issue that we feel that the Minister should really take it as an emergency. Why can the Minister not come up with a Statutory Instrument (SI) to address this situation and bring it to Parliament for debate immediately so that we can get this thing curtailed.
HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I heard what the Hon. Member is saying but I am not so sure what SI is expected. It is a situation that needs addressing. We do have a law that prohibits people from stealing cattle; all that is required is enforcement and the police are doing their utmost to ensure that all those who are involved are brought to book. I am not so sure, may be the Hon. Member can elaborate on the type of SI that I should bring to assist in that regard. I am open for advice. I thank you.
(v)HON. KASHIRI: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. What I will do is, I will write up and then send to the Minister, what we think maybe can help curtail the situation.
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I know the issue of wildlife and human beings’ conflict has been addressed before but my question is directed to the Minister of Environment and of Agriculture. What is the Government policy regarding wild animals which are currently destroying the fields of people in the rural areas?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would also like to thank Hon. Nguluvhe for that very important question. The issue of human-animal conflict is a serious issue which is always debated and considered at very high level. Government considers it very important to make sure that at least we do not lose lives through our animals.
As a country, we are very proud of having conserved our animals. Our conservation is very high in terms of conserving our national parks, our wild animals. What it means is, as a Government, we are very much seized with the fact that there are certain areas where there is that human-animal conflict. This is where the Ministry is concentrating. They are not just working as Government. They are also working with development partners to make sure that there is protection of human lives. Yes, we have been told in some areas, fences have been vandalised. You know people, they have stolen some of the fence but Government continues to look into those issues and make sure that people are safe in this country. That is the policy. I thank you.
HON. NGULUVHE: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. Currently, why can Government not come up with a policy of compensation? I will give an example that we have in areas like Beitbridge where we normally do not get anything from the fields but for the first time, people had done well in the fields. Now elephants’ species we did not know exist in our area are now overpopulated in our area. What is the Government doing about these elephants so that at least people can harvest something? Thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you so much Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Nguluvhe for that supplementary question. I can see the passion; he is coming from an area where this is a very serious problem. I am thinking it will be prudent for Hon. Nguluvhe to put it in writing to the Minister of Environment so that he can actually visit those areas and give a proper explanation as to the stages which they are in terms of protecting our human lives but the policy is, it is important to protect human lives. I thank you.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. For us to write this issue, it will be a problem. May we get a Ministerial Statement from the Minister? Are we saying that animals are more important than human life? When animals come on human settlements, they destroy everything. Are we saying animals are more important than humans? We need a Ministerial Statement. We need to understand fully what they are going to do to control these elephants. They are everywhere, most of us are having this particular problem of human-wildlife conflict in our constituencies. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nyabani, indeed it is a problem when animals are more in numbers than human beings. We hope that the Minister will come to this House and give a ministerial statement pertaining to that issue.
+HON. NYIKA: My question is directed to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. What is the Ministry doing regarding illegal lights that are affecting other road users? Thank you.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank Madam Speaker Ma’am. I want to thank Hon. Nyika for a very pertinent question. Apparently, we have got a standing Statutory Instrument in place to punish those who are putting additional lights on their vehicles. Actually, some of the lights are hunting lights. I will liaise with my fellow Hon. Minister of Home Affairs so that we continue enforcing and those perpetrators are arrested. As law makers as well, if you witness such incidences, let us take that task on our shoulders so that we help in the enforcement in terms of making sure that we do not have those culprits. Thank you.
HON. TEMBO: My question is directed to the Leader of the House. What progress has the Ministry made in providing uniforms to school children who are under BEAM?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Tembo for that question. The issue is, once Government has taken a policy to say we work with development partners to make sure that children who are under privileged are on BEAM, there is need to make sure that those children go to school. They should have uniforms so that they can attend school like any other children.
Madam Speaker, I think the question is very specific. We want to know the school with children who are supposed to be benefiting from BEAM and are not getting uniforms. This is a specific question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Tembo, you have to put your question in writing to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Thank you.
HON. MUGADZA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Transport. In the highways of Zimbabwe, we have got spots that are dangerous and red spots where accidents are taking place now and again at the same spots. Naturally when we look at the situation, it is because the terrain or something is causing accidents now and again on those spots. For example, in Manicaland we have got the Christmas Pass which has become and eye sore. Is there any Government policy to alleviate this situation, particularly for the Christmas Pass the situation is getting out of hand? We are witnessing accidents of trucks bumping on top of each other and on top of small vehicles almost three times a week. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Hon. Madam Speaker Ma’am. Let me also thank my fellow learned colleague Hon. Mugadza for the very important question. He has cited one of the national roads and in particular, a section that is Christmas Pass. I want to appraise the august House that in the next week or so, I will be approaching the relevant authorities pertaining to a proposal in place. An investor has earmarked that portion where we are going to be diverting traffic so that trucks and lorries will not be using the road that passes through Christmas Pass. We have got a 33 kilometre bypass road from Forbes Border Post. I am sure this exercise will alleviate the challenges that are being faced by motorists especially those using the highway.
I also want to allay the fears of the Hon. Member and Hon. Members in this august House that we have also identified all black spots and in particular in his province Manicaland. Sometime ago, I was also seen plying the Rusape-Nyanga road identifying such black spots. As a Ministry, we have put some barricades so that we actually put signage in terms of speed limit where we are notifying motorists so that as they approach those dangerous black spots, they must exercise extreme caution. This is the exercise we are doing countrywide. To come back to the point he has talked about the Christmas Pass, as he leaves this august House, he should to tell the people of Manicaland the good news. It is not the first time Hon. Mugadza has raised this, but he has done it through social media again and now he has approached this august House. I want to ask him to go back to the people of Manicaland, bring them good news that we are going to do a bypass road and the challenges that we are witnessing will be no more.
*HON. MUDAU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Energy and in his absence, I will direct the question to the Leader of the House. What is Government policy about electricity that is being charged in foreign currency because that is affecting businesses? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I also want to thank Hon. Mudau for that question. I am not sure how factual that question is. The issue which I am very much aware of is that those companies in mining and others which are into exports have been asked to pay in US dollars. As for individuals paying in US dollars, unless it is about pegging the amount to US dollars, if that is the correct situation, I will have to check with the Minister of Energy and Power Development Hon Soda.
*HON. MAGO: What arrangement does the Ministry have in cutting down trees that have grown along the roads? These trees, as well as animals are causing accidents on the highway.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): I would like to thank Hon. Mago for the important question that she asked. It is true that this is our responsibility to make sure that motorists drive safely on the roads. I would like to appeal to them to say if there is any other area where trees are growing along the tarmac, we kindly ask for communication and notification so that we act upon such. It is our responsibility that we cut grass and trees that might obstruct drivers on the highway.
If there are any specific areas on the highway that are causing accidents, we would be happy if we are informed in time so that our relevant departments may act promptly to such scenarios. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Way back in the days, we used to have fence along the major roads, but now a lot of grazing areas along the highway are not fenced off. Are there any plans to fence off these areas so that animals do not encroach on the highway?
*HON. MHONA: Thank you very much Hon. Tekeshe for such a pertinent question. It is true that we once had a plan to erect fence along highways especially on all trunk roads. We now have a scourge in the country of people who are always destroying infrastructure. We have seen a lot of people removing barbed wire along the main roads. This has been done by people who were enriching themselves to property that does not belong to them. Others were selling this wire whilst others were fencing their gardens. We once put back this fence and it was stolen. It is our responsibility as citizens to safeguard this infrastructure. Government cannot be seen every now and then requesting Treasury for this particular exercise.
When we sat down with the Traffic Safety Council of Zimbabwe we agreed that we need to erect a special type of fence which is unique so that anyone who is found in possession of it can be apprehended. We need to safeguard and make sure that we do not lose this wire when we erect it. I thank you.
+HON. NOWEDZA: When we look at the theft of transformers in the country, I have not heard that there is anyone who has been electrocuted whilst stealing these transformers. I have a feeling that the people responsible for theft of electric infrastructure are the ones who are in charge of it. What is Government doing about this?
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I would like to thank Hon. Nowedza for her question. The question borders on allegations. It is not a policy question. She is actually saying that ZESA employees are the ones who are stealing transformers. These are allegations and not factual information. This is an august House and I would not want to debate something which is not factual. I can talk about the policy of Government. The policy of the country is to make sure that those who vandalise transformers are prosecuted.
There is the Copper Act which was passed in this House and it prohibits people from stealing and trading in copper wire without a licence. The Minister of Home Affairs is here and maybe he can attempt to answer the question. I thank you.
HON. MAPHOSA: My point of order emanates from the issues of languages. That was a clear issue of not understanding the question because it was asked in Ndebele. As far as I know, we have interpreters in this august House who should be doing the interpreting of languages. The answer is not in response to what has been asked, so there was a language barrier.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Maybe we can ask Hon. Nowedza to repeat her question in Shona.
*HON. NOWEDZA: My question was on the theft of transformers and electrical cables. We have never heard in this country that anyone was electrocuted in the process of stealing these cables and transformers. Is it not a case of a chicken consuming its own eggs?
HON. MUTSVANGWA: Those who are stealing cables and transformers are being apprehended. The Minister of Home Affairs can respond to that question because he is responsible for that particular area.
*THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for that pertinent question. The stealing of cables and transformers has become a scourge in this country. It is troubling the citizens and the Government itself.
I brought the Copper Amendment Bill into this Parliament. It sailed through and is now a law. The purpose was to arrest these people who are involved in these acts. Whenever electrical cables are stolen, it is disruptive to domestic, farming and other industrial works. Those who deal with copper are now mandated to have a certificate of origin which states where they would have bought their copper and where it is going to be used. This certificate has unique features on it, it is very difficult to be forged.
Those dealing with copper will have a certificate of origin which has unique features and if you do not have this, you will be arrested. Again, the vehicle used to transport such copper without proper documentation will also be impounded and the person given a sentence of 10 years. These are some of the measures we have taken to make sure we curb and deal with people who are vandalising these transformers. It is no longer easy to get a licence to deal with copper. You need to go through a rigorous process to be cleared.
On the issue that is it not a case of a chicken eating its own eggs – we can refuse the fact that there may be employees of ZESA involved in the stealing of transformers and electrical cables. However, the police is working on establishing who exactly is doing such acts of stealing transformers and cables.
We have got a few cases of people who were electrocuted whilst trying to steal transformers. However, one issue that I want to emphasis to this House is that we need to assist each other. Issues of theft are not left to be dealt with by the police only but we can all work together as a people. For example, at home we put burglar bars, boundary walls as security measures. I always talk to farmers that if we come together and form neighborhood watch committees, those who steal transformers actually use vehicles, so it will be easy to arrest these hooligans. I thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the response Hon. Minister Kazembe. My issue is on the delegated authority. Would it not be good to enact a Statutory Instrument to say can we not withdraw the licences for copper dealers so that people should not mine their copper from our own electrical cables. As we speak right now, where are we getting the copper, Mhangura is closed. Until we have a functional mine focusing on copper, then we can re-establish that issuance of licences.
*HON. KAZEMBE: Thank you very much Hon. Nduna. What the Hon. Member is asking the Ministry to do is not possible. There are a lot of things that use copper products but there are a lot of copper products in the country. We have companies like CAFCA that are using cables of copper. We are looking at people who are re-cycling copper cables in the country, there are a lot of companies that are using copper for electrifying buildings. So we cannot withdraw licences.
*HON. NYABANI: We want them to import copper not export copper, is it not possible that we ban the export of copper? We are not talking about import, we are talking about licences to bring in copper. We want them to import copper and not to export it. Is it not possible that you ban the export of copper? We are not talking about imports; they can bring it in but you will have to stop the export of copper.
*THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND CULTURAL HERITAGE (HON. KAZEMBE): Thank you Madam Speaker Ma’am. I would like to thank Hon. Nyabani for his question. Madam Speaker, if we stop those who are already using copper, we will be using the little foreign currency that we have to import when we already have copper in the country.
I would rather wish that law enforcement arrests people then we use the little foreign currency that we have for other purposes.
*HON. E. NCUBE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Lands, Agriculture, Fisheries, Water, Climate and Rural Resettlement. What Government measures are in place for those farmers who lost cattle to the January disease? People need tractors for farming, be it in rural or urban areas. What programme does Government have in place so that farmers have tractors for use on their farms? We heard a lot about the Belarus tractors. How were those distributed? We never heard much on those tractors. Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I would also like to thank Hon. Ncube for her pertinent question. The issue of farming has grown the economy of this country. The Government is working tirelessly to make sure that we provide enough food for everyone.
Our intention is to stop importing all the things that we intend to use such as maize, wheat and tobacco. We need to raise those quantities of production. The Second Republic has been responsive where we raised the issue of Pfumvudza and bringing tractors and a lot of equipment into the country in order to enhance our agricultural yield. The country has enough grain and food because we have reserves through the programmes that were implemented by the Government.
Looking at the question that the Hon. Member asked on the issue of tractors, I think yesterday in our post Cabinet brief, we gave detailed information to all the farmers, informing all farmers who intend to farm as we focus on the winter crop and the issue of land bank where farmers can approach us so that they can get tractors and those who want to hire can hire from the land bank. The tractors that were imported are working for the good of the country. We expect to see very good yields. The Government policy is to make sure that tractors continue coming into the country so that farmers are assisted. The Belarus programme has not yet ended; it is still ongoing.
The Government has also bought driers for farmers so that the issue of moisture content is something of the past. It is true that we are looking at small tractors to cater for those small-scale farmers. The Government is considering everyone so that we provide enough food for the nation. I thank you.
*HON. TEKESHE: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister is to say that cattle are a source of wealth in our country. What plans do you have in place to assist rural farmers who lost their cattle to restock? Thank you.
*HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Thank you Hon. Tekeshe for your question on Government plans concerning restocking. We are all aware that as Africans, we keep our wealth in the form of livestock. In the past, riches were counted in terms of how many cattle one had. So many people keep their wealth in the form of livestock.
The Government came up with several programmes. There was an outcry of January disease and Government started giving out medicines like tick grease, and dip under the Presidential Input Programme. People collect from their nearest GMB but others are not aware of it, hence it is your responsibility as Members of Parliament to inform them. Also, the issue of restocking, there is also a Presidential scheme where cattle are revolved within communities as a way of restocking our livestock. I thank you.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you Madam Speaker, good afternoon. Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare pertaining to pension deductions from workers. Madam Speaker, what is Government’s policy on forcing people who deduct pensions from their workers and not paying the pension policy. In other words, they are deducting it off your pay slip but then they are not remitting that money to the insurance house. This is typically bad in local authorities and State-owned enterprises. I thank you.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you Hon. Markham for that pertinent question. I just want to say that this is not a policy issue but identifying thieves deducting money from people’s salaries and not remitting it to pensions. That is criminal and I think that should be dealt with. If by any chance the Hon. Member is aware of a company or individual doing that, it needs to be reported. The Home Affairs Minister will be very happy to deal with that.
HON. MARKHAM: Thank you for the response Hon. Minister. My supplementary question is that IPEC, which is the Commission for Pensions and Insurance has published a list in the press showing the fifty top people who have not paid pensions. On top of that list is the electricity supply people in their various forms of seven companies owing on behalf of the deducted five billion dollars to their own pension company. In my view, it means not a single person in ZEC, ZENT, in the Executive and all the subsidiaries, have any pension because it has never been paid and this was due on 31st of December. There is a whole list published.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Markham, where did you get that list from?
HON. MARKHAM: It was in the press and it is nothing private. You can check it. My question Madam Speaker is, on top of not having pensions, we also got a mandatory deduction by NSSA which is also not being paid to the pensions though it is a minuscule amount. All I am saying is that until we tackle the problem nothing is going to happen. I do not believe it is fair that the leader of the House should answer this but the Minister should come here with a policy on how they are going to repay pensions because these pensions are worth nothing now and if you wait for the exchange rate as it is going now you will die.
HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA: Thank you very much Hon. Markham for the question. I actually think this is something very specific and it needs a comprehensive answer from the Minister of Finance and Economic Development. As he rightly said, I will pass the message on to my colleague Minister to come and give a response because IPEC comes under the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development.
*HON. JAJA: Madam Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. What plans does council have pertaining to carrying of waste in residential areas? Currently, people are collecting money from each household so that they can hire a car to carry away their bins. What then will be the mandate of council?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Hon. Jaja for the question. We have been having problems with resources and most councils were failing to deliver on their mandate such as carrying away waste. However, devolution funds have been disbursed to councils and the majority of councils were able to buy equipment and other things needed for service delivery. If you check carefully there is a difference in the way they are collecting waste as compared to the previous year. We have not yet reached the stage where it is consistently done but all our councils are trying by all means to collect all waste timeously.
+HON. V. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon Speaker for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government. There was a time when local authorities dug trenches meant for drainage but they did not complete the task and the trenches were left wide open. When the rains came, they were filled with water. The trenches are dangerous because they were dug in front of our houses. As I speak right now, the previous week it rained and a toddler fell inside a trench filled with water. What assistance can we get since the local authorities are saying they do not have the required machinery to finish digging the trenches. These trenches have also become home to mosquitoes. I am asking what type of assistance government can offer maybe in the form of protection so that our toddlers do not fall into the trenches again.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you for that pertinent question which reminds us to take care of our children. When councils are digging trenches, they are supposed to put signs showing that work is on-going. They should also fill up the trenches so we do not have such dangers looming in our residential areas. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in terms of Stating Order. Number 68.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
DELAYS IN TABLING THE JUSTICE UCHENA REPORT
HON. MARKHAM asked the Minister of Local Government and Public Works to explain to the House:
- why the Justice Uchena Report has still not been brought before this House even though it was completed and handed to His Excellency, the President, in December 2019; and
- to further elaborate how much money was used by the Commission and to state when it was paid out.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are deferring questions 1 to 6 to next week. The Hon. Minister advised me that they only got the questions yesterday.
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, on a point of order please.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MARKHAM: Madam Speaker, the question was deferred from the Ministry of Justice who I still believe should be answering the question on the Justice Uchena Report. They referred it to the Ministry of Local Government, which I think is unfair because the Minister never comes here and the Deputy Minister used to try and answer this question which is totally unfair. Madam Speaker, for the record, this is the 24th time I have asked for the Justice Uchena Report. Twenty-four times!
Madam Speaker, I have a list here and if you can bear with me. Three weeks ago, I had questions on Kavimba and the Sovereign Wealth Fund which was answered by the Deputy Minister of Finance, for which I thank him. He told me that on the Kavimba story, we are on a PPP and the documents for searching are available at the company’s house. I have been to the company’s house and they have the deed and company name but the file is missing.
Madam Speaker, we were told that the sovereign wealth fund, the company is dormant. Last week a board was announced for it. It is also a major shareholder in the oil exploration going on in Muzarabani. The Ministry of Home Affairs, since August last year has not answered my question on the registration of people who have no documents. He is going to bring a statement as per your request. Madam Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture who has two deputy ministers is never here to answer questions. We are still waiting for an answer on why the wheat payments in USD has not been made. Some have been made but this is incomplete.
This is five months later. The same Minister has still not answered and we are 15% of the way into the tobacco buying season and I will ask him to give us an update on the Reentry App which is on the TIMB computer blocking all stock repayments. Stop orders have been blocked. It blocks payments to the Government and the Minister is refusing to come.
Madam Speaker, it comes to a time when it is no longer the Minister’s fault. I am afraid, it is the fault of the Chair. We have to bring these people to report. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Markham. Your concerns have been noted, we will try to do something about it.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
CHALLENGES OF CONGESTION ON THE CHIMANIMANI ROAD
- HON. M. M. MPOFU asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development what Government policy is pertaining to stakeholders who mobilise resources to rehabilitate the Kwekwe-Nkayi Road.
THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTUAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Allow me to respond to the questions raised by Hon. Mpofu. I wish to respond to the questions as follows:
- Government recognises the role of private sector in bringing about socio-economic development through investments in infrastructure development as enshrined in the SIDA Act that was passed in 2019. My Ministry has entered into a public private partnership with an investor and signed a memorandum of understanding to upgrade, widen and rehabilitate the Kwekwe-Nkayi-Lupane Road. As a requirement of the ZIDA Act, the investor is currently carrying out a feasibility study that is expected to be complete in 10 weeks. The feasibility study being carried out by the potential project is expected to confirm the financial viability and technical feasibility as part of due diligence, normally carried out by investors in infrastructure projects of such a size.
CHALLENGES OF CONGESTION ON THE CHIMANIMANI ROAD
- HON. GONESE asked the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development why the Ministry and ZINARA have not addressed huge challenges of congestion on the Chimanimani Road particularly, the section after flyover from Mutare central business district (CBD) just before the Blue Star Garage where the road is narrow and cannot accommodate the huge volume of traffic owing to the bad condition of the road which is riddled with potholes.
THE MINISTER TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTUAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Mr. Speaker Sir, my Ministry is aware of the challenges being experienced by the motoring public along the Mutare-Masvingo Highway in particular, at the exit of Mutare CBD where the rail over road bridge and the Sakubva green market river bridge have become too narrow for the increased volumes of traffic. Department of Roads is in the process of awarding the contract for rehabilitation of the affected stretch of the road and the contractor is expected to be on site by the second week of April 2023 once contract negotiations have been concluded. The project will be financed through Treasury as provided for in the approved budget.
However, as an interim relief measure, the Ministry, through the Department of Roads, has diverted haulage trucks from using the Green Market flyover street to instead use Railway St-Bridge Road-Park street route, thereby, reducing the traffic congestion that was caused by the constricted Green Market Bridge. This has improved traffic flow to the CBD coupled with improved road safety for users. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
CONSTRUCTION OF A CLINIC BETWEEN WEST NICHOLSON AND BEITBRIDGE
- HON. MOKONE asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House:
- whether there are any plans in place to construct a clinic between West Nicholson and Beitbridge.
- whether there are any plans in place to increase the number of ambulances at the Gwanda Provincial Hospital.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE (HON. DR. MANGWIRO): Thank you Hon. Mokone. The Ministry of Health and Child Care has a thrust to increase the number of health facilitates to cater for our population. In this regard, a feasibility study will be carried out by the Ministry’s department of Hospital Planning and Infrastructure on the needs assessment of that area in order to determine where exactly to situate the clinic.
Gwanda Provincial Hospital got two new ambulances in 2020 and 2021. The hospital’s third ambulance was involved in an accident and is as good as a write off. On the other hand, Gwanda District has a single ambulance which they use to ferry patients to the Gwanda Provincial Hospital. There are plans to replace the accident damaged ambulance when the Ministry procures more ambulances. Resources permitting, more will be bought.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. TEKESHE, the House adjourned at Twelve Minutes past Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 9th May, 2023.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Tuesday, 4th April 2023
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of national interest pertains to the welfare of the Members of Parliament. We are very few here as a result of accommodation challenges and this is partly why my other colleagues lost because of lack of resources. This is a serious issue because they cannot participate here.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, you are not connected.
HON. T. MLISWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker this institution is important in that it must never lack resources at any given time because it is responsible for the other two arms of the State, the Judiciary and the Executive. If it not well taken care of, how then does a country move forward when we only have a few people here to debate on national issues? They cannot be accommodated in hotels, they are sleeping in cars, they are impoverished, they are using their own monies because allowances come late. Their salaries are not even worth it, they are forced to go to campaign for elections without even being paid allowances. It is quite sad that no action is taken and this institution is not taking it seriously.
I would blame the Executive for being responsible for the failure of the Members of Parliament. Even those that lost, I think it was part of the machinations of the Executive to make sure that they do not resource this Parliament so that some of the people do not come back. It will be amiss for me not to also discuss and contribute on the Members of Parliament who lost in the elections. Some worked hard, some did what they could and some promised things that this House was supposed to provide. We went and told people that there will be Information Centres but the centres are not there.
We went and told people - visiting their constituencies, promising certain constituency allowance but they did not get it. With just those two things that I have mentioned, people will not want to entertain you and call you a liar, how can they vote you back into office? It is the responsibility of the Executive and I blame the Executive for deliberately letting these Members of Parliament down. The welfare of their vehicles, $30 000 is supposed to be given to these Members of Parliament. I prayed to God that they must go for elections with that 30 000 and with a brand-new car so that they would be able to campaign. They only had one car, yet we were promised a car. Why did that car not come? The Executive is celebrating and smiling at the demise of Members of Parliament because they only have one vehicle.
Where is the $30 000 that was budgeted for, which is in the Blue Book, which was supposed to be given to these Members of Parliament to have their vehicles? It is not a favour; it is something which has got to be done. If figures in the Blue Book are not adhered to, who is to blame? So once again, they were totally under resourced in whatever they did.
Finally, the issue of welfare is an issue of serious case as long as this institution is not respected and enough money is not given. Hon. Ministers were given $500 000 for houses, Deputy Ministers $350 000, Senior Directors in the CIO $350 000. We do oversight and pass their budget here and when $40 000 was being given to Members of Parliament, there was no noise. I have never seen where when a father is given more meat, the children complain. The father is given more meat so that he has energy to go and get more for his children. We are the mothers and fathers of this nation, but we are not well resourced. So you will see a continuation of Members of Parliament who are coming in for one term only. By the way, those who are coming in, I wish you all the best, you are going to serve one term as well because you know there is no capacity to serve for a second term.
We will be seeing a situation where Members of Parliament will change after every five years because this House is not well resourced. Members of Parliament are supposed to serve at lest two terms. They will come here, say nothing for 5 years and leave here after the 5 years after saying nothing. What do we do with the resource which was invested in the first five years? It has gone to waste - others were gaining confidence, some were not, so now you are bringing in people who have no confidence. It is not easy Hon. Speaker. I will give an example of Hon. Chinotimba; he brought pertinent issues to this Parliament. A good example is the fuel issue. He asked the Minister why Zimbabwe fuel is so expensive yet Zambia collects fuel from Zimbabwe and yet it is cheaper in Zambia. I do not see legislators coming in who have the common sense and the bravado to stand up and speak.
Hon. Nduna here: what he contributed at times 90% he was right, 10% I might not agree with but he stood to represent that national interest of this country. It is a sad moment for me, not because I feel that I must protect anyone, but for the country to move forward, cannot have a situation where we have Members of Parliament just serving one term. It does not make sense because it is a waste of resource. All the capacity building which was done, where is it gone, it has gone to waste and now they are leaving this place as mere paupers, owing money, no house, no nothing and the blame is on them.
This nation must be made aware and understand the role of a Member of Parliament. Our people believe that Members of Parliament have got money, they must build roads, build clinics and hospitals. That is not the role of the Member of Parliament. That is why there are rural district councils and urban councils whose job is to do that. None of these people are councillors. We are blamed for lack of development yet we are not custodians for development. Our job involves three things - to legislate, represent and do oversight. Have we not done that? This Parliament has done well by exposing quite a lot of what has happened in terms of oversight but God is God and the devil is there. They are punished for what they have not done – varikurohwa neshamhu isiri yavo. Pakanzi a Member of Parliament basa rake nderekuvaka road or chipatara ndepapi, hapana. If you are willing to help and then you help and tomorrow you are told to leave. In my constituency, I said the one who is supposed to construct a road must do so first then I will also vote that person. If he just says that verbally without any action, I too am able to say that.
We need to really take this institution seriously and the resource of the institution is critically. Finally, Madam Speaker, the PVO Bill was done in terms of NGOs which are involved in elections. This FAZ, we need a Ministerial Statement on it - is it an association or NGO? Is Heritage an association or NGO? We need a report for us to know - if it is an NGO, why is it getting involved in the politics of ZANU PF? ZANU PF has got a Political Commissar whose job is to mobilise for the party. It has every other department there, but we see them going there. We would like an explanation to understand, so what was the point of moving a law to dismiss other NGOs so that FAZ and Heritage could come and participate? We also want to know where FAZ is getting their funding from.
They are being paid 700 US dollars per month yet the officers in the CIO are paid 200US and then 320 RTGS which is not 700; could they not use the system. The State Security is responsible for the protection of this country for the Members of Parliament and for the President. You do not need to set up another PVO, you do not need to set up another CIO. Where the President is involved, it is national security but I must say the national security of this country has become itself a national threat to the people of this….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You time is up Hon. T. Mliswa. -
HON. T. MLISWA: Of this country, I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS Hear, hear.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon T. Mliswa you raised a very valid issue about Members of Parliament’s welfare and I advise you that it is being looked into by Parliament administration. About FAZ and Heritage, that one I cannot answer, we cannot discuss issues of ZANU PF party here in Parliament. I think that one you can take it to their caucus.
*HON. T. MLISWA: I thank you for your response pertaining to the welfare. Even on the issue of stands, they are now out of their jobs, they have nothing. If you see them coming, they are waiting for their remuneration so that they leave. You are also our mother. If you were promised that you are going to get something and you are now jobless, notwithstanding the issue that we must go back and campaign for our party. They do not have stands and vehicles; those are the only things that they are looking forward to as their pension, so when can they expect to get these things. This has been a pending issue for quite a long time. Some are now deceased and their families are suffering. I was appealing to you as Hon. Speaker that we are living in abject poverty as your children. That 40 000 that you gave us, if we manage to buy a stand, then now we are looking forward to build on that stand because we have absolutely nothing at the moment. If these allowances were going to be speeded up, that would help the Hon. Members very much.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We will encourage them to speed up the process as per your point of national interest. We also want that issue to be speeded up.
HON. NDUNA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker, my point of national interest – I just have an encouragement, if it pleases you, to request the Hon. Minister of Local Government to put timelines on the issue that he has brought to this House in terms of title deeds to those that are in houses of council and home ownership schemes. He has come here and he has promised that all those people would get title deeds. If there were timelines, it would definitely be good for everyone.
My main point of national interest borders around the issue of retrospectivity in terms of insurance application and the establishment of accident victims’ stabilization centres. It is something that we have spoken about ad-finitum for a very long time. Accident victims’ stabilization centres as a proposal were to be established at all the tollgates which are 100kms apart and they can save lives in this way. Seventy percent of our people die because they will not have been attended to within the first hour after the accident which is called the golden hour. They will not have been stabilized during that hour. It is my hope and view that the Hon. Minister of Transport can actually force retrospectivity application of the insurance for those that would have been injured and for the bereaved. For a very long time there has not been any compensation. I would also want the Minister to give a timeframe for the establishment of the accident victim stabilization centres.
The Hon. Minister of Health and Child Care who is also the Vice President of this country, Retired General C.G.N. Chiwenga received 20 ambulances to station at these tollgates. If it pleases you Madam Speaker, may you ask the Hon. Minister of Transport on those two issues of applying in retrospect the issue of compensation using third party insurance, full cover insurance and passenger insurance for those that would have been involved in accidents as well as to immediately establish the accident victims stabilization centres. This cannot be a House only for rhetoric and waxing-lyrical. It should be a House where we get responses in terms of action. I pray that if it pleases you Madam Speaker, let your heart be on the right side when you deal with the issue of title deeds for those in council houses and the establishment of accident victims stabilization centres as well as for those that have already been involved in accidents, retrospectivity application of compensation using the insurance. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nduna. Regarding the title deeds issue, the message will be conveyed to the responsible Minister of Local Government so that he will bring a ministerial statement as per your request. On the motor vehicle insurance and accident victims’ centres, I urge you to come up with a motion regarding that issue so that it will be debated in this House. I know you have been talking about that issue for a long time Hon. Nduna.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, my point of national interest regards the issue of teachers. Teachers are supposed to be united and look after every child. Therefore, teachers are expected to remain apolitical but we now have a situation where we have teachers for E.D. Where does it leave the other teachers if some teachers are said to be aligned to the President? Does it mean that we have some teachers who do not support the President? If we do not have such a situation, why are we throwing dividing the teachers? How are they going to treat children from different parents of different political persuasion? Can we continue doing that in a country where we think the President is our father and an umbrella who brings everybody together? This is not a semantic but a real situation. We have seen them dancing on the dance floor before the President. I would want those who pretend to be winners when they are not winners to know that the elections were rigged for them. How can Hon. Sacco win an election in Chimanimani? He cannot.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Madzimure, please address the Chair.
HON. MADZIMURE: Madam Speaker, I wanted you to protect me from Hon. Nguluvhe and Hon. Sacco. If you can protect me Madam Speaker Ma’am. I was talking in terms of principles. Our Education Act is very clear and even Government policy is very clear. A teacher is a teacher and can only belong to a teachers’ association. A teacher cannot belong to a political association. Therefore, I want a ministerial statement from the Minister of Primary and Secondary and even Higher Education on why they are allowing teachers to belong to a political association.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon Madzimure. Order, order Hon. Togarepi, order Hon. Members. Order please, may we have order in the House. Hon. Madzimure, my understanding is that these are teachers for economic development and not a political outfit. Even yourself Hon. Member, you are for economic development.
HON. MADZIMURE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. This House is not a joke. We swore waving a bible and we know there is no economic development association for teachers. There are teachers for Emmerson Dambudzo.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: So please may you bring the proof to this House so that we can talk about that issue. Without proof, we cannot talk about it.
HON. MADZIMURE: I will bring it.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank you Hon Madzimure.
*HON. NYABANI: First and fore-most, I would like to thank the people of Rushinga for the confidence that they have shown in me by voting for me in the recently held primary elections so that I can continue to further their interests through my representative function. As their servant, I will continue to serve them diligently.
There are learners who have not paid their examination fees because there are no centres to write examinations. Learners are travelling for 10km to go to a nearby centre for examinations. We would want to ask the Minister why they are not registering existing schools as examination centres so that learners do not have to travel long distances. Again, there are no teachers in secondary schools. You will find that a learner is studying 10 subjects but the school has only two teachers. We are asking the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education to bring a ministerial statement to this House and explain where exactly the problem is because the President is always saying no-one and no place should be left behind.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Nyabani. We have heard you but I am pleading with you to ask that question to the Minister tomorrow Wednesday on Question time so that we get a response as a House.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of national interest. In this House, we have focused mostly on the girl child and I want to thank Hon. Members and even the Ministers because most of the issues have been addressed. However, we have forgotten the boy child. Whilst a good percentage has gone through drugs and we have always raised the issue here, we have been promised that things are being sorted out to ensure that we alleviate the issue of drug abuse and drug peddling.
Madam Speaker, we will not resolve the issue – I see we are arresting those that are selling in the streets but we are not going to the root cause of the drug issue. We are celebrating mbingas that we do not know where they get their money from. I think that is where most of the drugs peddling is based. However, Madam Speaker, my issue today is on boys’ high schools. We have seen a lot of abuse on the boy child in these schools where the boy child is being abused. There is sexual peddling and sexual abuse. My prayer to you Madam Speaker is that the Ministry, together with the Committee on Primary and Secondary Education must lodge an investigation on this issue.
Madam Speaker, I have seen a good percentage of boy child committing suicide. Some have mental challenges and others are dropping out of school, going on drugs. Previously, the boys’ high schools were best for our boy child because they were meant for them to focus on school without being disturbed by some other things. Now, they have become a haven for abuse of boys. That is my prayer Madam Speaker that the Ministry, together with the Committee investigate on this issue. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Maphosa. You have raised a valid point. I think you can raise a motion regarding that issue that boys have been left out. All the entities have been concentrating on girls issues leaving out the boys so that it can be debated in this House. I think we can also urge the Committee to go and carry out investigations so that all the matters can be debated and reach to a point where things will change for our boys in schools.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.
Hon. Markham having stood up on a point of national interest.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Markham, time for points of national interest has expired.
HON. MARKHAM: On a point of order and clarification Madam Speaker. How long is the point of national interest supposed to be per individual? I understand it is supposed to be one or two minutes.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
HON. MARKHAM: Not one person debated under two minutes this afternoon. All the speakers were debating for three to five minutes. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you for noticing that Hon. Markham. I am sure they have heard it for themselves. Next time I will not allow them to speak more than the expected time. Thank you for that.
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. TOGAREPI: Thank you Madam Speaker. I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 15 be stood over until Order of the Day, Number 16 has been disposed of.
HON. L. SIBANDA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
MOTION
ABUSE OF DRUGS BY YOUTHS
HON. NYABANI: Madam Speaker, I move the motion standing in my name that: -
DISTURBED by the excessive and prevalent abuse of drugs by youths countrywide;
NOTING that the situation is exacerbated by the unemployment rate among youths who consequently end up spending most of their time idle and resorting to taking all sorts of drugs;
CONCERNED that such abuse of drugs has devastating consequences on our future generations and the nation as a whole;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the government -
To put in place measures that will curb the abuse of drugs by youths through self-help projects and by so doing, keep the youths fully occupied all the time;
Set up rehabilitation centres and hospitals to assist youths who are addicted to drugs to the extent of treating such abuse as a way of life; and
Legislate for stiffer penalties for the importation of those substances that give rise to incidents of drug abuse in the country.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
*HON. NYABANI: Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for the opportunity that you have given me to present my motion. Noticing that our country has gone down because of the drugs, the youths have been destroyed. People have been hurt and it appears that there is a war situation in the country because of the drug abuse. We should look for ways and means to eradicate this scourge. We should see as Parliaments, how best we can resolve this problem so that our country can develop. This is another type of a war. Wars come in different forms, the youth or the young generation is what we are looking towards ensuring that our country is developed but because of these drugs such as crystal meth and others – our young generation is being destroyed. People are now drinking and selling drugs everywhere including schools and workplaces. Government should come up with ways to eradicate this drug scourge. Government should also arrest all those who are involved in all types of drugs. People are brewing kachasu willy-nilly.
I have a young brother who became mentally disturbed because of drugs. We tried to rehabilitate him at Sally Mugabe Hospital but to no avail. Government should come up with stern measures for these drug peddlers. The police should play their role. Drugs cause mental health problems and we should not have these. If these problems are not attended to, the affected people will end up committing serious offences like murder. Parents are being attacked by their children. Some relatives are now accusing each other of witchcraft because of abuse of drugs. Government should assist by ensuring that there are sufficient jobs that are created so that these youths have something to do.
The law enforcement agents should not be involved in the sell of these drugs. Drug abuse is now a national problem. Once we rid ourselves of drugs, we will be a better nation. There should be introduction of practical jobs like carpentry, building and so forth, so that our youths are always occupied and will not think of abusing drugs.
May be there is no drug abuse in Hon. Mliswa’s Constituency that is why he is not speaking about it. I thank you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Just on a point of order. I have gone to Bulawayo and all over. I thought you have copied from me and thank me for being the initiator. I have put up a rehabilitation centre which costs me US$20 000.00
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, why are you doing that?
HON. T. MLISWA: He said he has never heard me talk about this and I said I was the first to start the awareness in Norton and I put US$20 000 in rehabilitation. As an MP, I was going to say to him – what did you do with your US$40 000.00? Why do you not give half of it to a rehabilitation centre?
HON. NDUNA: I just want to add my voice to Hon. Nyabani’s motion on drugs and drug abuse. Away from the drugs that he speaks to and about; I just want to come closer home to drugs that have not been spoken about that can cause abuse to a human body; in particular, these drugs are prescription pain killers or drugs which somebody becomes addicted to and therefore become harmful to somebody’s body.
Next to the known drugs that we talk about – the cocaine, heroin, mutoriro or marijuana – the most dangerous drugs are the pain killers which are prescription drugs. It is my thinking that we alleviate the suffering of the masses, there is need to make sure we treat, not the symptoms, but the challenges that cause drug abuse. If somebody indulges in drug intoxication, inhalation, intake and such like which leads to drug abuse, it is because they have a challenge that they are trying to mask or hide behind this issue of drug abuse. I will give you an example – a father gets home; we call some of these people youths assuming they are not married or otherwise. When they go back home, they are fathers and they are supposed to take care of their family. When they get home and they have nothing to offer to their family, this is what leads to drug abuse.
I second Hon. Nyabani in terms of work provision or farm provision - something that God can work on because the Bible says he will bless the work of your hands; you reap what you sow and so forth. When you have your clenched fist like this; this is called potential. When you release like that, it is called kinetic energy. It is incumbent upon all people that are born of a woman not to remain with potential but to release their talents and make them kinetic energy because everybody is borne of a woman. Why do I say this? Because everybody has got five senses including Charles Bronson of Virgin Airlines; including those that invented United Arab Emirates Airlines and Qatar Airlines and such like. Everybody is born of a woman but if we continue in a path where we do not realise our potential, we will continue to lament ad infinitum and continue to cry without getting anything out of our livelihoods that can see us go away from drug abuse. I ask and I challenge all men and women to release their potential and find that they get something out of their talents that they were born with in order that they avert, avoid completely eradicate and annihilate the scourge of drug abuse because drugs are now being used as a comfort pill, as something that gives a relaxation tool to somebody who will be in those challenges.
The issue of drugs are now being used by our children to avoid the stress that they would have faced at school because they have not done very well in their examinations, because their father is abusive to their mother at home, because they have no accommodation and because they have no food. They would use drugs to try and forget the challenges that they are facing at home.
It is my thinking that if the housing backlog is addressed, especially from where I come from, at N23A that is in Pfupajena where there are three families of ten each, that live in a three roomed house, the scourge of drug abuse can fall away. The scourge of child marriages can fall away and the scourge of girl-child abuse can fall away. I have spoken of three issues that can be treated by just one issue of addressing the housing challenges.
What also can address the scourge of drug abuse is the proliferation of jobs. I say this because we are endowed with ubiquitous amounts of mineral wealth. The so-called artisanal miners should no longer be referred to as artisanal miners, but they can use their numbers as artisanal miners to engage in what is called crowd funding. In my constituency, there is about half a million artisanal miners and if they were 500 000 in number and each of them produced a dollar per day, that would be half a million per day. If they produced it for two days, that is a million dollars.
If they produced it for five days, that is about five or so million USD and that can buy an ERJ 145. It is a 55-seater aeroplane, wide bodied aeroplane but can seat 55 passengers. That can carry it to Johannesburg at USD345.00 per seat and can transform the lives of artisanal miners using what they have to get what they want and using their numbers to engage in crowd funding.
I stand here on this pedestal and platform and implore the masses of Zimbabwe to look outside the box and engage in crowd funding. I have already started it in Chegutu, the vendors and what you call the transport operators from outside. They are called the hwindis or the touts and there is a thousand worth of touts and vendors in my constituency.
They have embarked on banking a dollar per day which is USD1 000 per day and because they are going to engage in contribution of USD20 000 monthly, what it means is with 100 constituencies contributing USD2 million monthly, they just need two months in order to transform their lives completely – with USD2 million per month in the bank. All the businesses can come into the vendors and the touts in order to get cheap financing at a rate of 2% per month or per three months or per annum in terms of interest.
This can transform the lives of our vendors and our touts and our people that are not employed in formal employment. I implore the masses of Zimbabwe standing here to engage in crowd funding in order to definitely make sure that they address the issue of housing, agricultural inputs as well as tackle the issue of funding their businesses in order to completely annihilate the scourge and the proliferation of drug abuse.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank the people of Chegutu West Constituency who asked and commissioned me to come here and represent them on the motion about drug abuse that has been brought up by Hon. Nyabani, in particular Cde. Lameck Nyamarango, Sarah Chikukwa, Marjory Ruzha, Patricia Nyamadzawo, Charles Makoni, Tawanda Chitashu and Tapfumaneyi Wunganayi. Thank you for giving me this opportunity
*HON. GOZHO: I would like to thank Hon. Nyabani and Hon. Nduna for moving this motion and I want to say that this drug issue is an issue which raises concern. Drugs are normally taken by young boys who do not have anything to do and they partake in drinking illicit beers and drugs. I believe that it is important that we promulgate laws which prohibit the peddling of drugs. There must be stiff laws pertaining to the use of drugs. Our young people are not working because there are no jobs and industries are not working. We need punitive laws which should assist in protecting the young people who are growing up.
In the same issue, I want to say that we hear people saying that there are some girls who are also taking drugs because we do not have punitive laws. As a nation, we need to come up with laws which are going to be prohibitive. We have a lot of young people who are not employed and who sit on bridges. As I mentioned, I want to blame the nation because of this situation that we do not have proper laws.
As parents, I therefore urge every parent to teach children about the disadvantages of drugs. It is painful to note that the children do not know the danger of drugs. Let us urge them to work hard to find something to do like partaking in productive work. We should assist them. The painful thing is that you find young people who are unemployed and some who cannot live with their families properly because of the drugs which they take. These drugs affect them for three days or so whilst they are under the influence of drugs. So let us urge them not to take drugs. I thank you.
*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to support the motion on drug and substance abuse which was raised by Hon. Nyabani and seconded by Hon. Nduna. This issue is a national disaster. We have even now realised that in rural areas, children are abusing drugs and substances. However, I would like to applaud the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) for trying to curb and stop this scourge. Recently in my constituency Mwenezi, there was a drug dealer who had caused havoc by selling drugs to children. People thought that he could not be brought to book but recently, ZRP managed to bring him to book. Therefore, I would like to encourage people to work together with the law enforcement agency so that those who sell drugs to our children are brought to book.
On the issue of school going children, some are lodging at growth points or townships. These students are vulnerable to drug abuse because they would have been given money by parents but they later use it for bad things because they will be living alone. Therefore, I urge parents to find better accommodation for children instead of letting them live alone. This will cause children to do whatever because they will have no-one to control them. I also urge Government to construct affordable boarding schools so that children do not lodge at townships and growth points. It is better to place them under someone’s guardianship.
Parents should also monitor their children when they go to school. They should know their children’s timetable so that they know what time they finish. Parents should also know their children’s friends so that they monitor the friendship. Even at churches, parents have to know those church friends because some drugs dealers are church goers. After completing a certain level of education, children should have something to do instead of loitering. In Mwenezi, there is plenty of agricultural land which is lying idle. There is a lot of water, I urge our Government to start irrigation schemes for young people so that as they get busy farming, they would not be tempted to go into drugs. This issue needs our attention as a nation. It is a thorn in the flesh for everyone who is a parent.
In institutions of higher learning, there is also need to monitor students. University authorities should monitor to see how those students are living, what occupies them at certain times. Lecturers should be closer to their students, checking their behaviour and try to help where necessary. Some students go into drugs because they would have failed in their examinations and in a way, the lecturers would take advantage of them, promising them to pass if they do what they want. They would give them money so that they will dance according to their tune. Students will end up going into drugs because of money.
As leaders, we should not be drivers of drug and substance abuse. We should not abuse young people by giving them drugs so that they do what we want. When they are under the influence of drugs, they can do anything without fear. We are also parents; we should be pained if we see other people’s children suffering due to effects of drug abuse; we should see them as our own children. I thank you.
(v)HON. JOSIAH SITHOLE: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I also want to add my voice to this very crucial motion raised by Hon. Nyabani. I would like to first of all applaud our security system, the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP), where we find most of the time the issue on drug abuse being put on centre stage. A lot of work has been reported in newspapers, television and wherever we are, we see the ZRP doing a lot of work.
However, I would like to suggest that we need to capacitate ZRP and those who would want to assist us in trying to apprehend people who are into drug dealing and abuse. We cannot do a wonderful job if our ZRP does not have vehicles or motorbikes so that they can quickly go and attend to areas where drugs are being abused. I also feel that it is not enough just to arrest. It is also good that we embark on intensive guidance of those people who will have been found on the wrong side of the law and even those who are not yet abusing drugs, we also need to give them some intensive guidance from ZRP and schools so that we reduce the propensity to go for drugs. I also want to say now that we are already deep in the sea due to this issue of drug abuse, we will also need to have notifications of those who have already been affected because some people will be brought to normalcy if we were going to get some medications for them. Since we are already witnessing that, we need some medications for such people.
I also feel that our Hon. President, His Excellency, Dr. E. D. Mnangagwa has been talking a lot about drug abuse. Just last week, he had audience with churches and appealed to churches to make sure that they assist in the fight against drugs. So we want to applaud the President for coming up with a stance to ensure that the issue of drugs is no longer an issue to be allowed to plague in our country. We would also feel that what he has done, even to some big people, that if they are seen manufacturing these drugs they are also given penalties. I think that is a good move by our President to be exemplary where there is disaster because drug abuse is now a serious catastrophe in our country.
Mr. Speaker, I feel we need to have some collective action. There should be no sector that does not talk about drug abuse. All sectors of life have to talk about drug abuse in the homes, schools, work places, recreational centres, churches and what-a-view, so that people really understand that we are in a very serious disaster in our country and we need to do away with it. It is like when COVID came into our country and the world over, our country actually participated very actively. It was among the most rated countries that were fighting against COVID-19. We need to have a similar stance, just like we did for COVID-19, to ensure that drug abuse in our country is going to a low end, and if possible eradicated completely. Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. MAPHOSA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank Hon. Nyabani for raising such a pertinent motion seconded by Hon. Nduna. Mr. Speaker Sir, I have heard my colleagues debating and mostly hammering on what we can do to help those that would have abused drugs. It is good Hon. Speaker Sir to talk about what we can do to help these children. My debate will focus on the root cause of having so much drugs in our country. When we were growing up, we knew that there were things called drugs and there were just a few young people who were abusing drugs. What we are seeing is that there is too much inflow of drugs in this country that we do not know who would serve our children. It is like someone is deliberately wiping out a generation.
Mr. Speaker, the young generation is being wiped away. It is like there is a group, should I call it ‘mafia’ which is responsible for wiping away this certain generation of our youths. Where are they getting money to buy so much drugs? It means there is a feeding point somewhere and some inflows of drugs. Those who are bringing in drugs know that they have a market because these young ones are given money to get the drugs. On my point of privilege, I stated that we celebrate people that we call mbinga. Have we ever asked ourselves what they do in their day to day lives? We know of course that some of them are in the gold mafia, whatever, but where are these other mbingas getting their money from?
Mr. Speaker, we cannot celebrate someone who drive beautiful cars and having escort when they do not have any line of business. Most of these people do not have mines, factories or any legitimate businesses but they are called mbingas, they throw hundred dollars everywhere they go. That is where our problem is as a country. I would want to urge those that are in authority to say we cannot go on like this. As the Second Republic, there were a lot of promises and statements but at the same time we have seen serious drug trafficking and drug abuses. To me, it is something that those that are in authority should sit down and introspect. I thank the party that had primary elections because they disqualified someone who owns a factory that manufactures mutoriro. It was a good move and we want to see what then happens after that. It should be a message to everyone, that is, if we are serious in trying to eradicate this problem; we should take action. It cannot be only one person; we want to see all those who are bringing drugs in this country being dealt with. Mr. Speaker Sir, these drugs come through our borders. We have seen that there are so many activities taking place there but as we always say, even in our APNAC meetings, we can blame people but are we doing enough as a country to give confidence to those that have arresting powers? For example, we can say if you arrest a drug peddler, we will give you so much or if you have a clean record as a police officer at the border post we give you this. I am saying this because you cannot expect a police officer who is earning US$200 to arrest someone who is bringing in drugs worth more than US$10 million. The person who is bringing drugs can just give the police officer US$1 000 and that will be the end. We have to sit down and see how we can deal with those that bring drugs to our country. As parents, we can do whatever we can but the issue is; who is bringing in drugs?
Mr. Speaker, if you go to resident groups, I am in several resident groups in Gwanda where I stay where people would say those who deal with drugs should be arrested. You hear comments from people saying that if we inform police officers, they will tell the drug peddler that Maphosa is the one who reported you to the police. They tip that person to hide the drugs. We are in trouble and as a country, I am urging authorities even from the President himself, to declare that if you are caught peddling drugs or being a drug trafficker – we have seen this with gold, there is a law that if you are found with gold, there is a stiffer sentence and if you are a cattle rustler you are given a stiffer sentence and the same applies to rape. There should be a minimum sentence for drug peddling and trafficking. For example, if someone is caught at the border bringing drugs, they should be given a minimum sentence of 15 years.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my debate is; let us come up with a law that will look into drug trafficking and drug peddling before we can talk about those that are selling drugs because those are small issues. I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
(v)*HON. MUDARIKWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to debate the motion raised by Hon. Nyabani, seconded by Hon. Nduna. I would want to classify these drugs in three different classifications. There is what they call crystal meth or mutoriro which is sometimes mixed with rat poison so that it becomes effective by removing sugar substance in the body and you collapse easily. There is Broncleer which is manufactured in South Africa. The manufacturing plant of Broncleer used to be in Natal but they moved it closer to the Botswana border. The local people produce cannabis which is also known as mbanje and also there is an element of recreational traditional beer which is sometimes brewed in the communal lands.
Why I have categorised these drugs is to mark in red that crystal meth, mutoriro and rat poison, these are pure drugs. Broncleer which is produced in South Africa is also a killer drug. These drugs have destroyed our youth. It is important that the different ministries such as Ministry of Public Service, Ministry of Youth and Ministry of Women’s Affairs must put an effort now to create an environment which makes living in communal lands acceptable because most of these people are coming from communal lands into urban areas. They are made drug peddlers and their lives are ruined.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I once mentioned that the educational pass rate in Mashonaland East Province is about 7% and what it means is that 93% of all these people have no skill to do. If they are trained or given something to do, they will not partake drugs. They say an idle mind is always the devil’s workshop. Our youth will remain seated with nothing to do. We must also design a system to remove poverty in communal lands because poverty has put its roots in communal lands. So, it is important that agricultural finance systems must securitise our cattle and goats that are available so that we insure them, thereby producing Z$10 billion to finance commercial activities in the communal lands. Our communal lands are just a sea of poverty and where there is poverty, drug and substance abuse exist.
Last week, I had to go to church just to relax and refresh my mind. The preacher there was saying when you die, you go to heaven and so you must live a good life on earth. Thereafter, I said this church is talking about death and let me go to another one. The same story was being preached that when you die, you must go to heaven. Insurance companies are also saying when you die, you must leave some money for your children. There is no concept of what am I doing today to live a comfortable life. The youth have surrendered their lives already to death. We must move away from this theorem of death. That is why there are now more people with insurance policies than medical aid policies because we have been overwhelmed by death. This is the other principle that make our youth quickly move into the use of drugs.
My strong recommendation is that the committee appointed by His Excellency, Cde E. D. Mnangagwa must come in and present their report to Parliament and Parliament must make an urgent representation and see which areas we can touch on. We have lost a generation of young people that have been taken by mutoriro and they will never come back. Anyone who takes most of these drugs whether male or female, there is nothing that functions because once you consume these drugs, you are fast asleep for three or four days. We cannot send children to school and universities to graduate into drug abuse. It is necessary that an immediate action is taken.
I also want to thank His Excellency for setting up this committee to deal with substance and drug abuse. Besides that, we also want to identify how do we produce recreational traditional drinks at affordable prices. I remember when we were growing up in communal areas, there used to be “seven-days” beer. A cup would not cost much. Four people would sit around and drink and after sometime, they go home and relax – tomorrow they are able to wake up. Nowadays people are not able to wake up once they consume alcohol.
I have been to America, Denmark and Sweden, they have allowed the use of cannabis for recreational purposes in minimum quantities. This has also reduced the amount of youth who go to hard drugs like crystal meth and Broncleer which really destroys them. It is important that this motion is adopted and Parliament must see to it that money is made available to combat substance and drug abuse. I want to thank you very much for allowing me to contribute on this critical motion.
(v)*HON. MUSARURWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank Hon Nyabani and Hon Nduna who seconded the motion. I want to raise the issue that is happening to our young people. The previous speakers spoke about the importance of fighting drug and alcohol abuse. For example, in Mbare and other high-density suburbs, you find people participating in such activities are being given lenient sentences. Some drug peddlers are arrested and set free without any prosecution. This is discouraging and it is affecting a lot of people. My request is that through this august House, there is need for the promulgation of laws which are deterrent so that when one is arrested, they should be incarcerated for long periods. People like Job Sikhala who are political prisoners are being incarcerated for long periods whilst drug lords who are destroying this country are roaming free in our streets.
It is my plea that we should have stiffer penalties so that it sends a clear message to would-be offenders. I thank you.
HON. MPARIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for giving me the opportunity to debate on the motion raised by Hon. Nyabani, seconded by Hon. Nduna. I feel encouraged to debate this motion because some of us in this august House have had a personal experience after taking our dependents and relatives for rehabilitation as a result of drug abuse.
Hon. Speaker, every day we receive reports of young children who are found in different states of intoxication, some will be reported dead or having committed suicide. Hon. Musarurwa raised this issue regarding drug peddling in residential areas. Drug peddlers are known in different areas but the challenge is that even when they are arrested, they will be eventually released, which results in people fearing to report drug lords.
Illicit brews and substances like Bronco are now prevalent in the City of Harare, for example when you go to corner Fourth Street, you would find that there are a lot of empty Bronco bottles. I heard the previous Hon. Member mentioning that young boys are abusing drugs but I want to say even young girls are also abusing drugs throughout the country because they do not have anything to do. For instance, at a day school, you find children going out of school to look for alcohol and drugs. Young girls are being taken advantage of by both boys and men old enough to be their fathers.
The other point Hon. Speaker is that we are giving too much freedom to our children who have access to everything they want. They can go out without any restrictions but as parents, we need to monitor their movements, their associates and the time they go and come back home. When I was growing up, our parents were very strict on us, they would not allow us to come back home after 1730hours. No child was allowed to come back home after dinner. I believe that if we set up household rules as parents, this will restrict our children and it will allow us to be able to monitor their behavior.
Furthermore, I believe that children are losing their childhood as a result of drug related behaviours and from what Hon. Nyabani said, this can be explained as the loss of a generation because these are our future leaders.
Hon. Nyabani also mentioned the fact that there are no jobs and our young people are idle, which gives them a lot of time to indulge in drugs and other activities using the pocket money that we give them. As parents, it is important that we understand the kind of drugs our children are taking, we also need to understand what it means to be intoxicated by dangerous drugs which puts them in a state of perpetual state of intoxication over a number of days without using their mental faculties. Some do not even sleep at night; they will be walking without tiring, eating continuously or not eating at all.
Another issue of concern is that we have received a lot of reports of drug abuse related violence perpetrated by children on their parents and guardians. This is sad because these are our future leaders and it compromises their future because there is nothing that can be done for them, they are no longer progressive in life because of drug abuse.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Zimbabwe has a number of remedies that can be applied to our young people who might have mental illnesses as a result of drugs, some can go to the Parirenyatwa, Annex and different mental institutions around the country. We have taken a number of relatives to these hospitals but the challenge is that they do not have enough medicines to cater for these patients.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have identified different Ministries which are stakeholders in the fight against drug abuse. The first one being the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which is responsible for funding the Ministry of Health in order for our hospitals to have enough money to stock medications because if a young person is admitted at an institution for rehabilitation, they need at least two to three weeks to have their mental faculties restored if taking proper and adequate medication.
After this period of admission, most people start behaving normally and some will start crying and indicating they are ready to go back home. However, when they get home, there is need for them to continue with their medications; failure of which, they regress into addiction.
So, my request is that the relevant ministries like the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare, Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Culture and the Ministry of Women’s Affairs should coordinate recreational activities which will keep young people busy so that they do not focus on drugs. For example, different sporting activities, income generating projects and behaviour change programmes.
We have also noticed that both day and boarding scholars are being affected by drugs, there is now no safe haven for our children. I therefore, implore parents to be very observant to what their children are doing. The Ministry of Public Service has a number of institutions for rehabilitating young children but these institutions do not have enough facilities for accommodating and providing services to these children.
I have once taken some children from the streets to such homes and the unfortunate part is that most of them leave home and go back to the streets because they do not find a hospitable environment to cater for their needs. We want such institutions to have adequate facilities to provide education and recreational facilities for our children.
Hon. Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture should also consider empowering young people with land so that they can be productive, rehabilitation should not be restricted to an institution only but it should culminate in young people partaking income generating projects. The Ministry of Industry and Commerce should also consider young people in the manufacturing of drugs and it is important that such drugs are monitored to prevent the abuse of prescriptive drugs. Our industry should empower young people so that they participate in income generating projects which will create employment.
The last Ministry that I want to talk about is the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development which is mandated with financing other line ministries because if hospitals do not have enough medication, we can debate as much as we like but will not be doing any good. I therefore thank you Hon. Speaker, for affording me this opportunity to debate on this motion. I urge this august House to adopt the motion as a matter of urgency because this is an issue of national importance. I thank you.
HON. TOGAREPI: Mr. Speaker, I am also very touched by the motion that was moved by Hon. Nyabani, seconded by Hon. Nduna, that touches on the challenges that we are currently facing because of drug abuse. True Mr. Speaker, we have lost a generation; we have lost many of our brilliant brains due to drug abuse. Many of our young men and women are indulging in drugs and you can tell from the onset that there is no future for that boy or girl.
I think we need to take a very serious approach to this menace. In my view, the first thing and the President of this country, His Excellency President E. D. Mnangagwa even said that we should come up with efforts to try and curb drug abuse. I am saying as Parliament, let us come up with laws that can assist law enforcement agents to deal with this challenge. It is big and for me, it is not just like people find themselves taking drugs. I think there is some force from somewhere, there is some invasion of our country from somewhere.
I would like to take you to around 2000 when we embarked on the Land Reform Programme and there was a misunderstanding between us and the West. Suddenly, we saw what was called ‘six pack’ - that is, six 300 or 400ml of beer, a ‘six pack’ that cost a dollar. It was very cheap, and everyone could afford a dollar; so that in essence was encouraging people to drink beer. Now, I think that failed to trigger the desired effect.
Let us look in the East and other countries like the Soviet Union, how it was destroyed. Think about what Vodka did in those countries. Now, beer was supposed to trigger mayhem in this country, and it failed. Then they realised okay, beer is no longer going to do what we wanted; we wanted to see demonstrations with people rising against their Government and all that has failed too. They have now come up with this mutoriro. We have a generation of senior citizens who are aware of where we come from and where we are going. They are all old and eventually they are going to die but they will die after leaving their legacies with a generation. These people will continue to resist any machinations against Zimbabwe.
So the best thing for these purveyors is to give mutoriro to this generation and all of them are going to die. If you observe carefully, our life expectancy had gown beyond 60 but now it has gone down to 35 to 38 years. Go to either Mbudzi, Warren Hills cemeteries or go anywhere, you will see that it is young people who are dying. Mutoriro - all these hard drugs are killing people and those who are worst affected are the young generation. This means that we are going to have that generation cleaned and we are also going to die due to age, natural death will come and we will go. We will leave a generation born out of mutoriro parents and you will see what it is going to do to Zimbabwe. We are going to lose our dignity and pride as a country.
Mr. Speaker, I think we need to really tackle this problem head on and ensure that those who are involved in drugs; selling drugs and our major threats go to jail, and not only go to jail but they must rot in jail. They are very lucky that we have a President who feels that the death sentence should never be practiced in our country. I think this is the only crime we should think about shooting those who peddle drugs – they must die. They are killing a generation.
We now have people in the streets there, and people say, vakastika. He will be standing there for 12 hours like a statue, and you think that is going to be a future President, a Member of Parliament, a teacher or doctor one day? Even the schools Mr. Speaker are also contributing to drug abuse. You see a child who is in ‘A level’; we went to ‘A level’ and were doing three subjects but because of some inexplicable excitement, students are being asked to do 10 subjects and the child does not even sleep, reading and trying to attain 10’As’. What do these children do? They will end up taking drugs so that they do not sleep.
Drugs by their nature cause addiction. He or she finishes and passes but he or she is already on drugs and cannot stop. When you look at the students who are taking drugs, they are zombies. You cannot even talk to them. They are prone to getting themselves into many of these crimes like murder and cannot even socialise. How are we going to build a future with such type of people who have been destroyed by drugs?
I was in my constituency and we were running a soccer programme where we were trying to fight drug abuse. Some young boys and girls then brought a paper bag full of mutoriro. I was shocked to see that even the label had a Gutu address because we think drugs come from Harare, they come from outside the country. We have people in this country who are now very rich out of killing our people. I think an operation by the police, by all security agents, must take place and must take place like yesterday to follow up on everybody, every soul.
If you go to areas where drugs are prevalent, they will tell you where they get them and have all those people arrested. I gave a lift to three women at Serima in Gutu. I saw them, it was raining and I said I cannot leave these ladies here. So, along the way they started telling me what type of job they were in. They were selling drugs in Chivhu and who their customers were. Some of them are there in the security services. some are high officials, maybe MPs here. Some we see them talking too much, it could be drugs and what are we doing to our country?
I am telling you, if we have an operation Mr. Speaker, just for two or three months, we will reduce the prevalence of drugs. Drugs are a precursor of a difficult situation to our country. Let us look at countries like Panama where we have drug lords who influence the politics of the country. They will sponsor wars and drug lords in this country as they develop addiction. We will see cartels of these drugs and one day we will have a country where you cannot be free and you cannot have a president or leadership of a country that will make decisions without begging or kneeling before drug lords. Why do we not nip this in the bud? What are we doing? As Parliament, Mr. Speaker, let us come up with a programme where all Parliamentarians may hold a demonstration against drugs.
Drugs are no longer here in Harare. You will find a herd man who is herding cattle being drunk. I was shocked the other day when my neighbour lost his cattle. He could not find them and the herd boy was nowhere to be seen. He looked for the cattle and he got them but the herd boy was not there. Then deep in the night someone who was just walking around found the herd man sleeping along the path. He was dead drunk. He had a small bottle of mutoriro lying next to him.
Look at the things they take. I hear it comes from globes, some comes from pampers, you know these unknown dangerous substances. What are they doing to their bodies? Maybe changing their genetic make-ups. We will end up having people looking like baboons. We do not know what they are eating and what it is doing to their bodies. Why are we not taking action as a country Mr. Speaker? This is a motion that we should take seriously. Every Hon. Member should go to his constituency and ensure that programmes are held to try and conscientize the constituents.
One area is lack of information Mr. Speaker Sir. I think the Government must take it seriously so that we look for those who have not yet been affected because it is just one day when they taste and enjoy the hallucinations and they are gone. Why do we not take young people to rehabilitation centres where they are going to see those who are mad or who are now unwell because of the drugs so that they can be scared, they can see that this is not good for them.
We are losing a generation. I do not know what is going to happen ten years from now because the number of our children who are taking drugs is bad. It also goes to the women. I am sorry if I am going to offend you; when you bleach your skins, how many cancers are you looking for? We do not know what it is going to do to you. These are some of the drugs we think we are talking of, not only of somebody who is going to be intoxicated, no. Using substances that will change how you behave, how you look, you are creating a problem and you are inviting a lot of people who might then end up being affected by those abuses. Some take those drugs to look very big – Hon. Nduna, then looks very big because of those drugs – [HON. NDUNA: Humongous.] – What are we doing to our country? We are people, God has created us in a certain form. Why do you want to change yourself using drugs that you do not know 10 years from now what they will do to your body and the children we are going to bear from mothers who are taking those drugs? What are they going to be like, what is going to happen to the make-up of their bodies?
I do not think we are doing any good to ourselves. Mr. Speaker, I really feel that as a people, if we want to save Zimbabwe, the only thing that we own and it is ours, is our people and we cannot have our people destroyed. However, bringing drugs here, whoever is corrupt allowing drugs to go across our borders must go to jail. There should never be any story. In fact, if we can take these people and keep them in Gonarezhou so that if they want to run away, they will be eaten by lions if we do not want to kill people because we do not have people now. If you go to schools, teachers have problems in actually giving direction to our children because they are all drunk. Maybe the teacher is also drunk.
So, we have a challenge Mr. Speaker, we have a challenge Members of Parliament. As Members of Parliament, we are representatives of the people. We have seen a danger in our society, let us take a step forward. Parliament must lead. We represent people, we have got people in our areas who are getting drunk, who are being affected by these drugs. Let us do something about it and immediately do so. I recommend Mr. Speaker, to you as head of this institution, to mobilise Members of Parliament to join the President’s efforts to fight drugs, to do something immediately and fight drugs. Drugs are killing our people. Drugs are destroying even productivity.
Some of the people here, you will find the work you want done here at Parliament is not completed on time - the person is drunk. Accidents that we see on our roads are caused by people who are drunk. So, every part of our society is now affected by drugs and why can we not do something because this is even worse than COVID-19? It is worse than even any other disease, even AIDS. Our people are dying. Mr. Speaker, you can go to Mbudzi today and see what is written on the tombstones in terms of age. How many people have died? They say they take drugs like cocaine. It eats you inside the brain there and if you do like what you do to a water melon and you apply pressure with your figure the skull may break. They no longer have skulls because they have all been destroyed by these drugs.
So, I think we need to do something and I pray that Parliament contributes to this and helps conscientise our people to move away from drugs because drugs are killing and destroying our generation. In future we are going to have children born out of people who are drunk. Imagine they will also be drunk and we will end up having no population with people dying and we will lose as a country. We need to be proud.
Mr. Speaker, we grew up under very strict parents and we were taught that we were not supposed to drink beer. If I start drinking at this old age Mr. Speaker Sir, I will take beer with discipline but this one started drinking at the age of 14. How do you expect these people to control themselves when their blood is 40% alcohol? I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Thank you very much Hon. Togarepi. That is an explosion full of sense.
(v) HON. WATSON: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would also like to add my voice to this very important motion on drugs, alcohol and substance abuse. I think that although we are seeing the problem now, it has been mushrooming in Zimbabwe for some time. Broncleer is the main substance being abused and it has been coming from South Africa for a very long time. This affects the liver, kidneys and internal organs as a whole. This is something which our ZRP and drug controlling authorities absolutely need to be on top of. There are three programmes conscientising young people to say no to drugs and drug abuse. One of them was done by Hon. Mliswa and as MPs, we are talking to the young people but their answer to us is why are the authorities not stopping the drug peddlers. We have to stop the drug suppliers and in order to do that, we need implementation through statutory instruments, committees and talking then we need to implement resolutions. Citizens feel nothing much has been done to stop the people who import the substances. Some of the cough mixture can only be bought with a prescription. So, how are the young people getting these cough mixtures which require a prescription? If we do not deal with the corruption that seems to be pervasive both in our ZRP force and in Zimbabwe as a whole, will we ever get on top of these issues? We need to stop drug abuse by this generation. That is my plea to Parliament and the authorities Hon. Speaker.
+HON. L. SIBANDA: I want to add my voice to the motion moved by Hon. Nyabani which is so infuriating because our children are suffering. I want to say that the drugs that are being taken by our children are injected into their veins. Some are taken through smoking and they quickly get into their bodies resulting in serious damage to their bodies, suffering from mental illness and at times tragic deaths.
I also want to add onto what other Hon. Members have alluded to, that the drug lords should be imprisoned. I once saw a video of the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe saying that there was a child who was arrested for drug abuse. He said that when that child gained consciousness, the police officers took the child to the drug lord who had sold the drugs to him. I am happy because the President is also realising that children are facing difficulties because of grown-ups who lure them to buy drugs and they become addicted. These drug peddlers should be arrested and sent for life in prison because they are destroying the lives of future presidents and future Members of Parliament. Still on the same issue Hon. Speaker, even if these kids think of stopping taking these drugs, it is difficult because they are addicted. I am lobbying, just like what the President is doing for the arrest of whoever is selling these drugs no matter it is Hon. Mliswa, he should face the wrath of the law without discrimination. With these few words, I thank you Hon. Speaker.
(v) +HON. S. NDLOVU: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Can I be protected from Hon. Members who are making noise.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Not from this side, we cannot hear anything.
(v) +HON. S. NDLOVU: Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue of drugs is serious even in primary schools. Kids are taking these drugs as young as primary school going age. Let us go with them as the leadership to hospitals like Ingutsheni to just go and see how young people have gone mad because of drugs, maybe it will scare them enough to stop taking drugs.
Ingutsheni has capacity which can be used for inmates who suffer from mental illness. What is painful is that when you go to the hospital, these children will be walking naked and even the doctors cannot help the state these kids will be in. My plea is that the Ministry of Health and Child Care should capacitate hospitals like Ingutsheni and other related hospitals.
When we ask these children why they are using drugs, they will tell you that they do not have jobs, so the issue of youngsters not working is one factor which is contributing to drug abuse. We have our factories which Government can open so that these kids can get employment. If one or two factories are opened in different cities, these kids can find jobs and leave the streets. They are no longer afraid of killing. They are not even afraid of committing any crime because of these drugs. Mr. Speaker Sir, what has been said by a number of Hon. Members clearly indicates that we have lost a generation who may not have the capacity to take over as community leaders in the coming years. It is because of these drugs that today we have high cases of early marriages and this is because both boys and girls have nothing to do. They spend much of their time taking drugs. Let us take them away from the streets and put them in the clubs that we have in our areas through the Ministry of Youth.
We can also resuscitate some of the trainings so that our children can find something to do instead of taking drugs. There is no place where these drugs are not being used. There should be a law that prohibits the existence of drug peddlers. [Part of speech not recorded due to technical glitch.]. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for according me this opportunity. I want to thank Hon. Nyabani and Hon. Nduna for the motion that they have moved. In short, it is very painful. If you look at the young ones, they are now looking like old people. If you look at other youths, they are gone health wise because of drugs. I want to thank you for this motion. I think in the end, we will have a resolution. It should not just end here. I am really pained Mr. Speaker when we look at education. Is it not possible for the Ministry of Education to look at those on BEAM because they are chased away from school because of late payment of fees? They end up engaging into drugs. This is troubling our young people.
The staff from the Ministry of Education should investigate whether fees for these children on BEAM are paid. Most of these children are the ones engaging in drugs. I do not know how the Ministry of Home Affairs works because members of the police are receiving bribes. If you call them that there is a base, they do not come. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not know how we can assist each other because as a representative of Mufakose which is a high-density suburb, it is populated by many drug addicts. When you call the Marimba Police Station, they will tell you that they do not have fuel. Girls are having unwanted pregnancies because they are getting pregnant while under drug influence.
The Crystal Meth that they use, I heard someone saying it is a drug which was used during the war by soldiers so that they would be alive when they go to war. You then ask yourself what kind of life are we living at a home where there are parents, elders but there are bases for drugs? If you call the police, they do not come. These children get these drugs in exchange of sugar, pots and cell phones for their parents. I think the Minister of Home Affairs should come out clear.
Someone said people who sell drugs are like witches because they do not have anything for the future generation. These drug peddlers should be prosecuted, not be given bail and should rot in jail. When they are taken by police, they are released. It is like a rapist. If he is convicted and given bail, those who are outside and wanted to commit the same offence, if they see that person out, they will be happy and know that they will just be released.
All those who are prosecuted because of drug peddling should not be given bail so that we crack on the peddlers. At the end, we should find out the cause of all this and nip it. Mr. Speaker, if you are to go to Mbare, there are houses which are brewing drugs. If you talk about it nothing is done. I went to Mbare for a funeral. I was really touched by what I saw there when I asked to use the next door’s toilet. I saw shocking things, drugs are being brewed in drums and if a small 2-litre lid is taken by someone, they will become mad. When you alert the police, they come and get bribes but they are destroying the lives of our young people.
This is because after completing education, our children do not have jobs, they are just idle. Long back, if a child becomes an engineer, the Government will assist them in whatever carrier they want. My plea is that the two Ministries that have to do with youth and home affairs should work hand in hand. There is need for many recreational centres. I think it is a good idea that the amount allocated to Members of Parliament through the CDF should be enough to cater for projects so that our youths are occupied all the time through projects and recreation.
Rehabilitation in Zimbabwe is very expensive and parents cannot afford it – it costs US$20 per day. My plea is that Ministry of Finance allocate enough resources to Members of Parliament to enable them to establish rehabilitation centres since Harare Hospital is no longer accepting affected youths saying that they are not mentally disturbed – they are only affected by drugs. When they are interviewed at the hospital, they appear very normal. They then go back home and abuse their parents. A lot of children in Mufakose have attempted to rape their parents because of these drugs. Some have escaped stabbings because of these children. May God intervene.
I would like to thank Hon. Nyabani for bringing in this motion which is touching youths on drug abuse. There are a lot of unwanted pregnancies, incest and a lot of sexually transmitted diseases as these youths engage in unprotected sex when they are drunk. There are some parents who are now chucking their children from homes and saying they should go and stay at bases because of the abuse they are experiencing. That is not a solution. Any parent who engages in this act should be arrested because this shows a lot of neglect on the part of the parent. Parents should sit down and interact with their children. Let us have time to check on our children when they are back from school. Their bags should be searched to check for any queer substances. About a month ago, a primary school child died because of inhaling gas – nobody was attending to him. The maid was always busy on WhatsApp.
This new 2000 generation experiments a lot with these powders and pampers too. We need God’s grace. This should not just end in debating. We need to implement all the positive points here so that they people out there know that MPs speak with one voice. I thank you.
(v)HON. T. MOYO: Thank you Mr. Speaker for finally recognizing my voice. I would like to add my voice to the motion raised by Hon. Nyabani and seconded by Hon. Nduna.
Drug and substance abuse is an international problem. It is a global problem and Zimbabwe is not spared. I wish to contribute to this discourse and make my debate under four headings; the undermining causes of drug abuse; manifestations and forms of drug abuse; impacts and finally I will proffer solutions to this important motion.
Drug abuse is a national problem which increased dramatically especially during COVID-19 pandemic. Adolescents and youths who practice drug abuse may have been affected in various ways. Prolonged lock down of schools during this period contributed immensely to increase drug abuse. Schools were closed and online lessons were hardly done. The youths are the future of Zimbabwe. Action must be taken now and not tomorrow.
Types of drugs include glue, broncleer, codeine, chem spirit, marijuana, crystal meth among others. The undermining cause of drug abuse is the issue of the porous borders. We have seen drugs such as broncleer, codeine and others finding their way illegally into Zimbabwe in huge volumes and that affects the youths. There is a massive local production in Zimbabwe and that is rampant with drugs such as musombodia – a colorless highly intoxicating drink made with ethanol endalment powder being illegally manufactured and distributed in the streets of Zimbabwe.
Some of the impacts of drug abuse are as follows; drugs affect the central nervous system and can leave users in a bad condition. The majority of youths who engage in drug abuse have been affected in a big way – their being unemployed also affects and leads to public health disaster. Some of the substances cause risk behaviors, cardio-vascular, neurological diseases, predisposed and short-term psychiatric complications including addiction, stress, depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies and even psychosis. School going children who use these illicit substances and drug abuse are also affected and they drop out of school.
Some of the recommendations are as follows, as Parliamentarians, we need a multi-stakeholder approach Mr. Speaker Sir. Let us bring everyone on board, civil society, development partners, Parliament and Central Government. This brings a lot of community awareness which is very paramount in trying to curb the impact of drug abuse. We also need to have learning changes and we need a legal framework that will curtail and criminalise the sale of drugs and have deterrent penalties for a term of 20 years in jail being given to people who sell these dangerous drugs. That is my submission Mr. Speaker Sir. Thank you.
v*HON. PERSEVERANCE ZHOU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir for affording me this opportunity to add my voice to this motion. Let me thank Hon. Nyabani and I also want to thank Hon. Nduna and other Hon. Members who debated on this motion. A lot has been said and I will not repeat what has been said. Let me say that what I see is that we have very few places where there are no drug abusers or children who are engaging in drugs. Some of the drugs come in the form of injections. A lot of people are not open because of stigmatization.
I want to encourage people that if we see that anyone in our purview is dealing in drugs, they should be open quickly so that they seek help. We also have a lot of diseases like HIV and we had COVID after that and these diseases would wipe away people. If you look closely, you find that drug abuse is more dangerous because it wipes away a whole generation because most of these children are damaged. I am saying that when HIV befall on us, a lot of awareness took place on our TVs, radios and in the media.
A lot of people came up in the open how they coped with HIV. I think people should come up in the open so that we learn from others. After all, there is hope even in our communities. If people come up in the open and show that there is hope at the end of the tunne. I think our media and the journalists should work together so that people come up in the open and help our children.
Talking about rehabilitation centres – the centres we have today are psychiatric units and for people to send their children there where people who are mentally challenged, it becomes a challenge. I think the Government should come up with separate rehabilitation centres which deals with drugs only. The challenges that are being faced by these children do not affect the parents only but affects the Government as well. Our education system should include topics on drug abuse. The syllabus should be designed for their urgency which should be inclusive of dramas. Artists should also be romped in so that the bad thing about drugs should be brought out. When it comes to HIV, there were a lot of literature which was being published and there were posters everywhere.
I also have another issue that all the ministries should come together and address the issues of drugs. Funding should be availed because if there is no money, nothing will come out. I think everyone should put their hands on the plough and we address these issues. I want to thank the President, but we also need the help of NGOs to chip in and also ask the public to become policemen. Even in schools, there should be whistle blowers who watch these children so that they will not engage in drugs because drugs are destroying our nation and they are destroying our children.
With these few words, I just want to encourage all the parliamentarians that we should put laws that protect our children and that they should get help and those who are peddling should be prosecuted and given strict penalties. Thank you.
*(v)HON. MUTAMBISI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I want to thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice on this motion. A lot has been said and I just want to add a few words. I want to thank the mover and seconder of this motion. I just want to say that our children are now behaving like animals and parents are not doing anything because they cannot handle the situation. The issue of the police - because the police are aware, where the drugs are being sold. Maybe they are failing to cope with the pressure. I think there should be a special branch that deals with issues of drug abuse. The First Lady has tried to come up with sporting programmes so that our children would engage and forget about drugs. We have addressed the issue of police that they should go and prosecute these people who are dealing in drugs.
Last week, the President said that we should have police on patrol so that if they catch anyone under the influence of crystal mirth they should be detained until they are sober and then they will be forced to disclose their suppliers. This will make other children afraid to take drugs. So, I think the police should continue catching all these children who are under the influence of drugs. I think the Government should chip in and take all those places which are closed and use them as rehabilitation centres so that it would not be expensive for the parents. Also, as parents we must know what our children are doing at any given time and what they are eating. If we do that it will help us.
I remember last week; a parent was chased away from their house by her child. As legislators I think we should know what kind of people our children are befriending. I think it would help us to curb the issue of drug abuse. I thank you.
(v)*HON. JANUARY: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I would like to support the motion which was brought in this House by Hon. Nyabani and supported by Hon. Nduna, with regard to the issue of drug abuse in the country. The issue of drug abuse in the country is something that has become a scourge. When we look at it we discover that these drugs are being smuggled through the borders but again you will see that we have got soldiers and police force along these borders, where will they be when drugs are being smuggled into the country?
It is because their remuneration has become meaningless, hence these drugs are being allowed to come through the borders. There is nothing to gain for them if they arrest these people but instead, they will rather gain a few dollars from working in cahoots with these people. The best thing is to uproot a tree, when we go about pruning trees they will germinate new branches. Let us look for the real cause of this scourge and deal with it.
Children are now murderers because of these drugs, they have no respect for elders. To them everyone is just nothing. Both girls and boys have gone wayward. After school, children have nothing to do instead they are spending much of their time galivanting. May the Government create employment in different provinces around the country so that they have something to occupy them. Let us have vocational training centres in different provinces, so that we do not have these youth just being glued on one place. When we grew up, there used to be clubs for boys and girls and we knew these were very helpful. Thank you very much for the time and opportunity.
*HON. V. NDEBELE: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this pertinent matter that relates to the abuse of drugs, especially by our youths. I also have a youngster who is into drugs. As I am speaking right now, I do not even know where he is and what he is thinking about. At times he turns violent and locks the other children inside the house and instructs them that no one is supposed to get out of the house. This issue of drugs is very painful to all the parents with children who abuse drugs. This previous week, I was called by my neighbour informing me that my child was chasing his child carrying a knife with the intention of stabbing him. Drugs have destroyed the nation. Parents are no longer at peace in their homes because children have turned to be monsters due to drug abuse. However, we do report these cases to the police and we even show them the houses of these drug peddlers and drug dealers but it is useless because they are only arrested for about two minutes and released. This is a sign that our laws in relation to drugs are very weak. We want the Government to intervene and create strong policies that deter communities from dealing in drugs and any individual who is found on the wrong side of the law should be severely punished so that we create a drug free environment.
(v)HON. I. NYONI: I want to add my voice on the important motion brought in by Hon. Nyabani, seconded by Hon. Nduna. Let me not repeat what other Hon. Members have highlighted. I note that Zimbabwe has become a centre of hard drugs like Cocaine, Heroin and others. It is high time that the ports of entry through ZIMRA and other law enforcement agencies are tightened so that we do not have these leakages, so that these drugs cannot be imported into the country. The youths are the leaders of tomorrow. If we allow this situation to continue as it is, what type of leadership are we producing for tomorrow? I see their families disintegrating because of these young people who are always high on drugs. I do not see them making proper families in future. In brief, I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
*HON. NYABANI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank Members of Parliament who debated on this motion. The issue of drug abuse is affecting everyone in the country. It is my wish that different Ministries join us in this battle against drug abuse. The youth have gone to waste because of drug abuse. Who then are we going to remain with if they are gone? Let us have a law to get rid of this drug abuse scourge. Mr. Speaker, I move that the motion be adopted.
Motion put and adopted.
On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. MPARIWA, the House adjourned at One Minute past Five o’clock p.m.
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 30th March, 2023
The Senate met at Half-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESENT OF SENATE: I have received apologies from the Executive:
- Hon. C.D.G. N. Chiwenga, Vice President and Minister of Health and Child Care;
- Hon. J. Moyo, Minister of Local Government and Public Works;
- Hon. Dr. A. J. Masuka, Minister of Agriculture, Lands, Water, Fisheries and Rural Development;
- Hon. Dr. F. M. Shava, Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade;
- Hon. O.C.Z. Muchinguri-Kashiri, Minister of Defence and War Veterans Affairs;
- Hon. Prof. M. Ncube, Minister of Finance and Economic Development;
- Hon. Prof. A. Murwira, Minister of Higher and Tertiary Education, Innovation, Science and Technology Development;
- Hon. K. Kazembe, Minister of Homes Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
- Hon. R. Maboyi-Mavhungu, Deputy Minister of Home Affairs and Cultural Heritage;
- Hon. W. Chitando, Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
- Hon. P. Kambamura, Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development;
- Hon. P. Mavima, Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
- Hon. L. Matuke, Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare;
Hon. Dr. S. Nzenza, Minister of Industry and Commerce;
- Hon. D. Garwe, Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities.
- Hon. E. Ndlovu, Minister of Primary and Secondary Education and
- Hon. M. Ndlovu, Minister of Environment, Climate Change, Tourism and Hospitality Industry.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. SEN. KAMBIZI: Thank you Mr. President Sir. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Firstly, there has been a lot of talk and a lot of confusion at the same time with regards to free education that was announced by the Government. May the Hon. Minister favour this Hon. House by explaining the Government policy with regard to that? Secondly, may the Hon. Minister also favour this House by explaining the levels that are going to be covered by the free education? Lastly, how far has the Government gone through his Ministry to implement that policy? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Mr. President. On free education, the Constitution and the relevant section which I think is Section 75 speaks to progressively providing state funded education. I normally want to call it State funded education, not free education because it is not free. The State has always been providing a measure of that free education.
Let me begin by provision of State funded education through BEAM as a social protection measure to cover the vulnerable children. That has been going on for quite some time. I remember we started off with about 300 children covered under that programme. It went on until last year when we covered 1.5 million children under BEAM. This year we are expected to cover 1.8 million children. The target has been the most vulnerable in the communities both urban and rural. A few years back, we began to roll out what we called grant-in-aid tuition programme which was targeted to vulnerable districts in the country using the ZIMVACK report. The districts that were chosen were two per each rural province. That brought those districts to 16 in total. I can give examples of Matabeleland South, where I come from. There are two districts which are Beitbridge and Mangwe where the State is funding education in those districts in their totality and the same goes for all the other districts that is two per rural provinces. That is one measure of progressive realisation of State funded education. In addition to BEAM, examination fees for all children who are beneficiaries of BEAM are paid 100% by the State.
Again, on examination fees, those children not covered under this programme are paid for in terms of examination fees up to 55% and the parent or guardian is obliged to pay 45% of that. In terms of the levels that are covered, it is basically primary and secondary education, targeting largely the vulnerable children. It is envisaged that as we go on, that is going to be expanded to cover more children. Let me also bring in the fact of those parents who fail to pay examination fees and are not covered in either of the areas that I have mentioned. For example, last year in 2022, children who failed to register all those children who failed to register because they could not raise the money for examination fees for both O’ level and A’ level were all invited to submit their names. The schools submitted the names of those children and all of them were covered by the State. So, this is how far we have gone in terms of realising the progressive realisation of State funded education. I thank you.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Mr. President, thank you very much. I just want to say it would be my first time asking a question to Minister Moyo. So, I want to congratulate him for having been appointed Deputy Minister.
Minister, I would have wanted you to refer to the Constitution correctly. You referred to the Constitution but Section 16 says the State must take all practical measures to promote free and compulsory basic education for children, but I want to go to Section 75, which I think you referred to most. Every citizen and permanent resident of Zimbabwe has a right to a basic State funded education including adult education. You cannot act inconsistent to this one. In fact, you then referred to Section 71 (1) (a), now under (b) it then says further education. So, you have a right first of all to basic State funded education, it is a right. Basic State funded education is a right including adults. Then under (b) it says further education. This is beyond basic further education which the State, through reasonable legislative and other measures, must make progressively.
Now there is a difference. They use progressive for everybody. Progressive is for further education but for basic, it is a right and it says they have a right to State funding. Section 72 talks of free compulsory. So, I am just saying what you have said is inconsistent with the Constitution itself. Thank you very much.
HON. E. MOYO: Thank you very much Mr. President. I think I need further reflection on those sections vis-à-vis the Education Act so that I can come up with maybe a proper and consistent interpretation of that, but the way we had coined it in the Ministry is that we were going to progressively - because it is not practically possible looking at the level of our economy to fully and 100% fund education at a go without incorporating the progressive element so that as the economy grows, at least we are moving consistently with that growth. So, this is how we had coined it as a Ministry.
Then in terms of the coverage, I think we were mostly concerned with the basic education, which by definition in terms of the Education Act, covers primary school and secondary school and not the high school level. That is ECD up to A’ level by our definition. So, I think I need further reflection for purposes of interpreting what the Hon. Member has said.
HON. SEN. CHIEF CHARUMBIRA: Thank you Mr. President. Minister, you are talking of the Education Act trying to put it at par with the Constitution. I think that is basic knowledge to anyone. What the Constitution says is supreme and I want to read, ‘This Constitution is the supreme law of Zimbabwe and any law or practice or custom inconsistent with it is invalid to the extent of the inconsistency’. So, if your Education Act says something else which is inconsistent with the Constitution, please let us follow the Constitution. Thank you Mr. President.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: I think we can allow the Minister to go and do some further specific reflection and look at it more closely and come back with a response next time. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. I do not know how best this can be corrected, the issue which concerns parents where parents are forced to buy expensive uniforms. Those who cannot buy such uniforms are not given places. What can be done because you will find some children being chased away because of non-payment of fees? Some are being hurt by people on their way from school after being turned away. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Children being forced to buy uniforms by schools is illegal. We have a free market economy and parents are supposed to buy wherever they have got cost advantage. So, if anything like that is happening, yes indeed, it has happened and some of it has been brought to our attention and we have taken action against such schools and headmasters. I would implore the House to inform the nation, like we are doing right away and like we have always done through our circulars that, that is illegal. No school should force children to buy uniforms from them nor should they create a situation where if you have not bought a uniform from them, then you have not gotten a place. That is not allowed, it is illegal and we would like to get evidence of that and even names of such schools so that we can then take corrective measures.
Then children being sent home, again it is the same thing and I think some court judgements have been pronounced with regards to that. That is illegal. The contract of school fees payment is between the school and parents and the child must not be used to force parents to pay. It is actually an abuse of those children denying their right to education. So, we encourage schools to come up with innovative ways of making sure parents pay. We have suggested that schools can sit with parents and agree on payment plans. Where children are so disadvantaged like orphaned and vulnerable children, BEAM is there to assist them and I am speaking here for public schools. The private schools come under a different mandate in terms of our Acts. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We have been joined by the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works, Hon. Chombo.
*HON. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education regarding the policy which concerns teachers on leave. We are informed that those that go on leave are not replaced. They go and come back without a replacement. You find at times children will be 45 in a class. When a teacher is not replaced, what it means is that these children will be taken up by another teacher who has a responsibility of other children. You find a teacher teaching 120 children. This compromises their education.
My question is, can that law not be reviewed to allow teachers on leave to be replaced because we have a lot of graduates? Is it not possible that graduate teachers take over so that we have manageable classes and the law says that for infants, the teacher ratio should be 1:20, for juniors it is 1:40. So this is not what is happening in schools. In infants, you will find that there will be 60 children to one teacher. So how can such a policy be enforced so that our children benefit? If it means adding the number of teachers at a schools, then this should be done so that children to teacher ratio is fair. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much Hon. President of the Senate. Thank you very much Hon. Member. Yes, teachers going on leave were not being replaced. That is true, these are regulations from the Public Service Commission (PSC) in terms of trying to manage staff costs. When a teacher goes on leave and they are replaced, there will be a double payment because whether they are on leave, they are paid full salary and the teacher coming in will also come on full salary. I think because of budgetary constraints, that is the reason why we then have that kind of regulation.
Yes, granted, it creates a problem in terms of quality teaching and quality learning by our children, our schools normally have ways of addressing this. The ways of addressing that differ from school to school. The PSC regulations are guided largely by Treasury guidelines because Treasury gives us - normally like we always heard that this year we are employing new teachers, maybe up to 5 000 and that is guided by the roll-out of the budget itself because they cannot employ beyond what the budget can carry. Yes, it is giving us problems but at the moment that is the situation.
The same goes for the teacher-pupil ratio of 1:20 for infants and 1:40 for other classes. We have a big shortage of teachers in the country. I think at the moment we have a shortage of between 12 000 and 15 000 in the system. We would like to have those teachers and the teachers are available but are not employed because we need to move with the budget so that we employ people that can be paid. So we are limited in terms of employment by the budgetary provisions. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Is there a specific policy which protects children who would be travelling on a trip using hired buses so that we do not continue losing children through accidents while on a school trip? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Well, I could not really get the import of the question but I suppose the questioner wants to know whether there is any law regulating children travelling on educational trips. Yes, there is. When children are travelling for educational trips, they are guided by relevant circulars which guide on the ratio of children to the ratio of teachers traveling with them. If the trip has boys and girls, I may not have the figures at hand but I know there has to be a relationship – if there are girls there must be a female teacher and if there are boys there has to be a male teacher to cover their interests.
When they travel, they must travel in a registered public transport which is fully licenced, fully insured and they must not travel at night. I think these are the regulations, if I got the question correctly. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. DENGA: Thank you very much Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. Minister, there were young girls who were benefiting from NAC, through the Dreams Programme for Form 3 and Form 4 girls. It seems this year, NAC is not continuing with the payment of school fees. So, this means that these young girls are owing schools and parents are expected to pay. My question is; what Government plans are in place to assist parents who were benefiting from NAC through payment of school fees? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you very much. Coming to children being paid for by NAC and now NAC failing to continue to pay for them, I think we need further information on that to understand the areas that are affected then we can investigate. Maybe we can come up with an informed decision. At the moment, I am not aware and I would request that you ask in writing so that we can do thorough investigations. I thank you.
*HON. G. MOYO: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. What measures is the Ministry going to put in place in order to safeguard the ZIMSEC examination papers so that we do not continue losing the quality of our education due to leaking of examination papers? I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. E. MOYO): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Senator Moyo for the question. I know last year there was a whole lot of problems regarding security of papers at ZIMSEC. Let me just as a background give you a security nature of the ZIMSEC system. Our papers are developed by paper developers and then they are put into what is called a grade maker, which system banks the questions and which system uses random pick up of question papers. There is no interface between the question papers and human beings. All those things are automated.
Then the transfer of those papers from ZIMSEC head office to our Norton printing press is done technologically and there is again no human interface. It is wired to the machines. Those machines are just feeding codes and then the paper is run and again there is no interface until the paper is packed. People will be just watching and papers will just be rolling. They are being cut, packaged and the whole system would have been set, then the papers will go out. The only interface is when those papers are then put into boxes to be delivered to schools.
If you look at what happened last year, you will find that the leaks of those papers did not occur anywhere between head office, printing and delivery of papers to the centres. The evidence that we have is that the papers leaked when they were at school. That is the point where our attention is now being focused. At the school level, these schools are put into clusters and there is a cluster centre for distribution of examination papers. That cluster centre is manned by what we call a monitor who is brought in by ZIMSEC to monitor what happens there to ensure that there is integrity.
We also have the police officers who are there and when these papers are being removed from the strong room to the classroom for invigilation, it is not one person who takes those papers. The whole system is water-tight in terms of security. We have integrity issues by some of our personnel at the school level and where the papers leaked, there was a kind of working together in cahoots by officials at the school. When people agree and connive to do a crime, usually they will succeed because there is no one who is going to let the cat out of the bag.
So that is where we need to make focus. There are several suggestions of how to track papers until they are opened. That system is being worked on and hopefully, something is going to come out to ensure that the integrity of the examination is not compromised. However, I was satisfied with what happens right from the paper-setting, development of the papers, grade maker system until the printing, the packaging and delivery of the paper. Integrity issues affect us at centre level and what we have also seen is there is a trend that is happening.
It is happening in the sense that in most of those schools where we have paper leaks, the personnel there are usually acting heads of schools and not substantive heads. We have been talking to PSC to ensure that most of our heads are graded to substantive level so that they have something to protect. Those who are just acting have nothing to protect and they just let go things. I thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: May I announce that we have been joined by the Leader of this House and also Minister of Information, Publicity and Broadcasting Services, Hon. Sen. Mutsvangwa. She is available to answer questions.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to direct my question to the Minister of Transport and Infrastructural Development. I want to start by saying that you are doing a very good job in our roads and we note that we had heavy rains and most roads were damaged and some have potholes. I want to know what plans the Government has regarding the resurfacing of roads, the covering of potholes so that they do not continue stretching in our roads especially in the rural roads. For example, the Bindura Highway is in a bad state and other rural roads. How far are you in resurfacing and refurbishing roads? Thank you.
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you very much Mr. President and thank you Hon. Tongogara for raising such a pertinent question which gives us the opportunity to talk about the progress in our roads. I appreciate that we were blessed with heavy rains this year, which is good for our crops. It might be bad for our roads but at the same time, I want to thank the initiative which was brought about by His Excellency, President E. D. Mnangagwa after noting the state of our roads.
As a result of roads, this programme is ongoing and it will end in 2024, meaning that the end of the rainy season gives us the opportunity as a Ministry to refurbish our roads. The Hon. Member mentioned the Bindura road and I believe that this week the Hon. Member would note that there are companies which are working along that road. Some are cutting grass and some are covering potholes from the Defence College going onwards until you reach Mazowe/Bindura.
We have a number of companies which are working on the roads so that the road will be in a better state. I want to promise that by the middle of next month, that road will be in a better condition. Those who are going to travel for Easter will travel well along that road. I want to talk about other roads across the country. This programme has resulted in us engaging many companies through the tender system which means that we have a number of companies which we would see all over the country working on our roads.
Let me also inform the country that we have the Bulawayo/Victoria Falls Road which is used by tourists from Beitbridge, Bulawayo and Victoria Falls. In the next few weeks, we are going to be through the same tender process engaging companies who are going to be working on that road so that that road is refurbished. The challenge is that we have one annual budget as a nation, but we will be taking from the same pocket so that people have electricity and that they have different services. We want to make sure that happens but because we are under sanctions which are undeserved, the money that we use to different programmes might not be enough, but I want to promise that because of the end of the rainy season, we are going to be refurbishing our roads throughout the country. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. ZHOU: Thank you Mr. President. My supplementary question to the Hon. Minister of Transport is that we want to know whether the Ministry and Rural District Councils work as a team or do they work together as teams because you mentioned the tendering process and because of that, rural roads are also covered. Rural District Councils have graders, tippers and other equipment which is needed for roads, but there is no tangible job that we see which is done by Rural District Councils. I thank you.
* HON. MHONA: Thank you Mr. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Denga who gave me the opportunity to explain that the Ministry of Transport has a good relationship with the road authorities which are four. The department of roads under the Ministry, the Rural District Council, the local authorities and the DDF which is called RIDA now which means that most of our roads in rural areas are covered by Rural District Councils, which was raised by Hon. Sen. Denga. Indeed, some Rural District Councils and local authorities have machinery which can cover their areas. Sometimes they do not have fuel but as the Ministry of Transport, we are saying that if there are such councils, they should communicate with the Ministry and if there is need for fuel, then we can work together so that we work on our roads in the rural areas. For members of Parliament and Senators, it is important to inform us so that we work together, whether it is in the rural areas or urban areas, roads have responsible authorities but as the Ministry, we look at the major roads which link us with other countries.
Because of His Excellency the President’s initiative, we sometimes intervene and work together with other departments. You will find sometimes councils are not being progressive but as representatives in this august House, we need to work with our councils so that they work hard and we will have good roads in the country.
HON. SEN. ZHOU: Thank you very much Hon. President for giving me this opportunity. My question is directed to the Hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. Zimbabwe is well known for promoting and protecting programmes for persons with disabilities, for instance we were the first to enact a Disability Law in 1992 and we have ratified the United Nations on the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The African Union came up with a disability law called the African Disability Protocol in 2018 and quite a number of countries have ratified this instrument but Zimbabwe has not yet signed and ratified. Hon. President, I wanted to know the status of this instrument in terms of Zimbabwe ratifying and also signing the same. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. DR. MUSABAYANA): Thank you Hon. President, I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking this very important question which touches on the matters relating to people with disabilities. As you know, our President is forever saying we must never leave any place or anyone behind. In that respect, it is important that we mainstream people with disabilities. However, as regards to this Bill, I do not have the specific terms of reference on this Bill but the originators of this Bill will be the Ministry of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare who will bring it as a Ministry to Parliament and then as Foreign Affairs and International Trade, we will come in to assist in the signing of it as an international treaty. It normally originates from the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare. We will follow up to see where this Bill is lodged or housed so that we can see how we can implement it. I thank you Hon. President.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Hon. President, my question is directed to the Leader of the House. Hon. Minister, you are known as a person who has been vocal about media freedom. You have licenced a number of television and radio stations. The national Constitution speaks about media freedom but what disturbed me is a statement that was released by George Charamba, who intimidated media practitioners and as I am talking, journalists are not comfortable with the statement which says that he does not allow ‘news hawks’ to operate in this country. Does Government agree with that statement that was released by George Charamba?
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Hon. President. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Komichi for his question. As the Hon. Minister for the Ministry, my job is to ensure that journalists do their job with freedom, reporting factual news and observing the laws of the country. As a Ministry, we oversee the Ministry, we are one country and we normally have stakeholders’ meetings. The question requires me to comment on a statement but I have not seen the comment that the Hon. Member is referring to. I do not believe that in this august Senate, we can talk about what we see on social media like the Tweeter and so on. The policy of the Ministry is to see that journalists have media freedom, express themselves and observe the law.
*HON. SEN. MOEKETSI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government. Hon. Minister, in council where it is said that we must be given stands, we have not received stands and it is almost five years to Hon. Members of this Senate. I want to know the position regarding this issue.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE (HON. SEN CHIEF CHARUMBIRA): Before you answer, I am trying to figure out whether this matter is not a matter of Standing Rules, an internal matter of Parliament itself and not a matter for the public.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Let me say to Senator Moeketsi, I believe that this issue is known. Senators and the Local Government Ministry knows, even the confidentiality issues, we know them but we are going to engage in a different platform and I believe that everything is in the right direction. We were informed as a Ministry and we are working on that with the council. My request is that if there is no progress and you have not received - may you engage my office so that we work on that. Mr. President, we were told that there is such a challenge and the Ministry is working on that. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIFAMBA: My question is directed to the Leader of the House because the Minister of Home Affairs is not here. Along Julius Nyerere Way, there are pirate taxis, ZRP and council police, there are a lot of activities which are happening, including running battles between council police, vendors and unlicenced pirate taxis. Is there no better way than destroying people’s windscreens and the chasing of people? I was almost hurt because I went downtown and this happens there.
The other issue is the clamping of cars by council police, is this not going to destroy people’s cars? You find that someone is left by three seconds for the time to expire and you find people tampering with cars, towing them without any regard for the safety of the cars. Motorists are very concerned; when you try to pay the fine there, they refuse. Is there any safety for the car, I thank you?
THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): I want to thank the President of the Senate and Hon. Sen. Chifamba who raised a number of pertinent questions on the plight faced by many people and there is need for correction. I want to believe that these issues can be addressed maybe by engaging the police. I will engage the Minister because the Government policy is that police is there to protect the public and property. That is the responsibility of police. What you raised Hon. Senator, I will take it up with Hon. Minister Kazembe so that the issue is looked into because the co-existence of people is what is required by Government.
Looking at the issue of cars, let me engage the Minister of Local Government because it is the responsibility of the local council. Hon. Minister July Moyo is responsible for what happens in the local authorities. The clamping of cars, the conduct of officials, the towing of cars and all other things which end up hurting people or property - these are issues which have been raised by the Hon. Senator and they will be taken up to the Minister’s office. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. DENGA: Thank Hon. President Sir, I wanted to direct my question to the Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs but in his absence, I will direct the question to the Leader of the House. We want to understand the delimitation exercise which was carried out and which was passed and gazetted by Government which implies that there were set boundaries. There are people who had registered in 1995 or before who did not check the voters roll whether they were changed to the correct ward after the delimitation exercise or not. When we go to the website you would find that some are registered in Ward 1, they are found to be in Ward 20, that person is expected to vote. Are they going to vote in the right ward or in a different ward where the name is registered?
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank Mr. President and I want to thank Hon. Sen. Denga for the question. Regarding the delimitation exercise, the question is supposed to be addressed by Hon. Minister Ziyambi. I believe that this is the plea which raises the point that after delimitation people who were registered under specific wards might be appearing in different wards. As leaders, it is important that we continue to educate people on checking the voters roll. This is critical, this is a fundamental right which we got through independence. It is important that after delimitation, we continue educating people on the importance of checking the voters roll so that they know where they are supposed to be. My Ministry will continue informing the public the importance of checking the voters roll so that they know where they are going to be voting. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Local Government and Public Works. I want to know the Ministry’s plans because all local authorities are under the Ministry’s purview but you find that when it comes to the paying of rates, when you want to pay your rates, the rates will be increased by 100%. I do not know as the Ministry that is responsible, are they investigating how these council officials are treating people because their charges are always up each and every month. Thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Hon. Sen. Tongogara for your question which has been troubling a lot of people. As we move around looking at the issue of rates, normally it is an agreement between the rate payers and the council which they agree on their yearly budgets.
From our investigations, we discovered that when rates are changing, it is because they would have been pegged in United States dollars when they are coming up with budgets. When you go to pay, the auction rate is always changing. If you paid last month, if it was US$20, the auction rate would be at 500 which means you are paying about RTGS1 000. If you go and pay the next month, the auction rate would have changed but what you would have agreed on, the rates do not change. They will just follow how our money is operating on the market, but if there are places where rates are being changed, I think you have a right to tell us so that we go and investigate. Thank you.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: I move that time for Questions Without Notice be extended by 10 minutes.
HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
*HON. SEN. KOMICHI: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. There is a law that affects how the Zimbabwean Government operates which is ZIDERA. What is Government doing so that this law has to be removed?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE (HON. MUSABAYANA): Thank you Mr. President for the question which has been asked concerning ZIDERA which was put in place by the Government of America when they knew that Zimbabwe was fulfilling its mandate when the Zimbabweans went to the struggle. One of the things they fought for was the land so that land would be returned to the black people of Zimbabwe. That is when we had ZIDERA in place which is a law which prohibits the importation of money from other countries into Zimbabwe and also prohibiting money coming from the West into our country.
Besides that, we had other nations who also put us under sanctions which include countries in the EU and other countries, but because of the leadership of our President E. D. Mnangagwa, some of the countries in the EU have lightened the sanctions. What is only left is for the army, that is the only Government department that is still under sanctions in Europe, but America this year went further, they renewed their sanctions. They are adding more people on to the list.
As a country, we are following the route that our President is channeling us towards saying that we are friends to all and enemy to none. We are extending our hand to America so that they would understand, but right now we say yes, the law is still there and still functional but there are other businesses in America who are coming to Zimbabwe like the John Deere facility, a facility which was put in place by the company so that they bring tractors and combine harvesters into the country.
We also have many companies like that. This year we also witnessed where we have an organisation of Africa and America. We were not being called to that conference but this year Dr. Fedrick Shava was invited and he was part of the conference. This shows us that there is a way forward. They are worming up to us and relations between Zimbabwe and America are improving. The law is still there but we will keep on engaging them.
This afternoon we were looking at other ways of removing ZIDERA. You know that some white farmers had their farms taken away and resettled. We are just engaging how we can compensate those people in terms of monetary terms, compensating in the infrastructure that they had built. Those are some of the engagements that we are engaging in so that ZIDERA can be removed. This law is not good. It is affecting the people of Zimbabwe and bringing poverty on the children of Zimbabwe, especially women and children and also other countries including the United Nations are saying that this is illegal and it is not a good law. The African Union also said this law is not good, it should be removed. SADC is also saying that this law is not good. All this is through the leadership of President Mnangagwa because he was able to convince the whole world that this law is not good. Also, he was able to unite all the countries to show them that this law is not good. It is a satanic law. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. CHIMBUDZI: Thank you Mr. President. I want to direct my question to the Leader of the House. I want to start by thanking ZBC for doing a good job during Cyclone Freddy. Even old people were talking of Cyclone Freddy because of the good coverage. My question is; is that Cyclone Freddy still a threat to Zimbabwe because people are still afraid?
*THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. I want to thank Hon. Sen. Chimbudzi for that question regarding the plight of the people in her constituency who are worried about Cyclone Freddy. Let me say that we do not have a report which indicates that Cyclone Freddy is still a threat. We know that it destroyed lives and a lot of property in our neighbouring countries. We all see this and in the last Cabinet meeting, the President spoke about the damage which is around 300 households and properties in Mozambique. As friends to Malawi, we work together, we help each other. I want to thank the people of Zimbabwe that Government engaged citizens and private companies so that we assist those who are suffering because of the destruction that was done by Cyclone Freddy; schools, livelihoods, food stuffs, we are accepting anything. So far, we have assisted them with mealie-meal and we are collecting cooking oil, exercise books and other basic necessities to assist the people of Malawi. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. MABIKA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Minister of Transport. I come from Chipinge where we have the Mount Selinda to Chipinge Road. I wanted to find out what is happening regarding the road. What plans are there to refurbish the road, like what you alluded to in the past?
*THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT (HON. MHONA): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Thank you, Hon. Sen. Mabika. Indeed, like I said before, that our roads were damaged by the rains, there are some jobs that we can do whilst it is raining and there are others that cannot be done whilst it is raining because of Cyclone Freddy and other natural disasters which we anticipated in those areas, like Chipinge and others.
The Mount Selinda-Chipinge Road, I want to promise that the Ministry has started working on the roads which were lagging behind because of the rainfall season and also because of our budget. We are going to continue with the projects which had been stopped because of the rains. Let me assure you that you can even inform the people of Chipinge that we are coming to work on that Mount Selinda Road. Thank you.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: Time for Questions Without Notice has expired but I would not let Hon. Senators go back with those questions. I will explain why I have done that, once we are done. I have very good reasons why I have allowed all of you to take the floor, very good and sweet reasons. At the end, I will let you know why. However, bear with me that the time allocation will be one minute each at the best.
*HON. SEN. CHISOROCHENGWE: Thank you Mr. President Sir. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Local Government. What is Government planning to do regarding the collection of litter which is spreading all over the cities and some are even covering roads. What are you planning to do with regards to collection of litter?
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President Sir. Thank you, Hon. Sen. Chisorochengwe for that pertinent question. This is quite an important issue and His Excellency the President dedicated the first Friday of the month to cleaning and collection of litter in our cities and in different places, working with councils. Indeed, I agree with you Hon. Senator that as councils, we are sleeping on the job because of what we see on the streets. However, in the past few weeks, I believe you agree with me that most councils bought service vehicles like tractors and other cars which are going to be ferrying waste to waste disposal sites. Like Harare, they have schedules of waste collection. I know we have not attained the mark of ‘Sunshine City’ but councils are using devolution funds to buy such machines to use for waste collection. I believe that this is going to bring a difference. In the next coming days, you are going to see a difference. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. TONGOGARA: Thank you Mr. President. My supplementary question regards the issue of Pomona dumpsite. May we know the progress of the Pomona dumpsite, what is happening at the moment?
*HON. CHOMBO: Thank you Mr. President. The question which was raised by the Hon. Senator, I am not clear about it. However, I believe that the agreement that Government has with Pomona is that council will be dumping litter at the Pomona dumpsite and they will be paid for collecting waste and cleaning up. The waste will be used for alternative energies like electricity and other forms of energy. I thank you.
*HON. SEN. DENGA: Thank you Mr. President. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Local Government and Public Works. In the past week, we heard the Deputy Minister commending the good job which is being done by Makonde Rural District Council. My question then is; did you go to Lions Den high density area and have you seen the state of the roads and also because there will be mud everywhere. As it is, the roads are not accessible. Have you been to the GMB Lions Den Depot – no-one is clear on whether the Ministry of Transport or the council is responsible for refurbishing the road? The GMB road is in a bad state and I do not know what should be done. I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS (HON. CHOMBO): Thank you Mr. President Sir and thank you Hon. Sen. Denga for that pertinent question. Unfortunately, I have not managed to go to the Lion’s Den area and I have not used that road, but I would request that this august House give me the opportunity to go and check that road and then I can come back with feedback. Our desire as Government is to fix such challenges so that people can access their houses and we spoke about the cleanliness of our cities and places where we live. I am going to engage the Mhangura Rural District Council so that I understand the issue that you raised Hon. Senator. I thank you.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE in terms of Standing Order No. 67.
THE TEMPORARY PRESIDENT OF SENATE: We can now move to Questions with Notice but we do not have a single question from Senators. May you go and write questions Hon. Senators so that you participate. The good thing is that this is double luck. We will not be meeting so that you have enough time to write your questions. That is why I said that let us address all the issues because you are not coming back next week and we are going to be taking a long break. Thank you.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, PUBLICITY AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (HON. SEN. MUTSVANGWA), the Senate adjourned at Five Minutes to Four o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 9th May, 2023.