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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 09 July 2015 41-52

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 9^th July, 2015

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)

MOTION

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

MRS. CHIKWAMA:  I move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 and 2, be stood over until the rest of the Order of the Day have been disposed of.

1. MPARIWA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

MOTION

REPORT OF THE DELEGATION ON THE HIV/AIDS LEARNING

AND EXPOSURE STUDY VISIT TO KARNATAKA STATE, INDIA DR. LABODE:    I move the motion standing in my name that this

House takes note of the Report of the delegation of the HIV/AIDS

Learning and Exposure Study Visit to Karnataka, India, 10 – 14 November, 2014.

1. MUSIIWA: I second.

DR. LABODE:  1. INTRODUCTION

The HIV/AIDS Learning Exposure and Study Visit took place from 10 to 14 November 2014 in Karnataka State, Bangalore, India.  The study visit was organised following an initial exposure visit by officials from National AIDS Council, Centre for Sexual Health and HIV AIDS Research (CESHHAR) and other Ministry of Health and

Child Care Officials. The Study visit was sponsored by United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) country office and the delegation was hosted by the Karnataka Health Promotion Trust (KHPT).

2. OBJECTIVES OF THE STUDY VISIT

The objectives of the study visit were:

1. To understand the scale up strategies and experiences of implementation of targeted interventions with Key Affected

Populations (KPAs)  in partnership with Community Based

Organisations (CBOs); ii.    To understand and experience the various programme components of targeted Interventions and observe programme implementation through field visits.; iii.       To understand modes of engagement and critical success factors for KHPT’s work with police and judiciary and how key population benefited from this initiative; and iv.      To understand how Karnataka Health Promotion Trust is building capacity for sustainability (programming for Sex Workers by Sex Workers, including community mobilization as well as formation and maintenance of support groups).

3.0   PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE DELEGATION

3.1   The Parliament of Zimbabwe delegation comprised:

• Ruth Labode, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Health and Child Care
• Aldrin Musiiwa, Member of the Portfolio Committee on

Health and Child Care

• Edna Mafuruse was the Secretary to the delegation

3.2. OTHER DELEGATES

• Kuchasaraani Marumura - Officer from the Judicial Services

Commission

• Clancy Nyamkure -Assistant Commissioner of the Zimbabwe

Republic Police

• Getrude Ncube -The National Director for the Ministry of

Health and Child Care, AIDS and TB Unit

• Raymond Yekeye -The National AIDS Council Operations

Director

• Tendai Mbengeranwa -National AIDS Council KAP

Coordinator

• Dagmar Hanisch - UNFPA Representative
• Sibongile Mtetwa, Ms. Loice Ngwenya and Ms. Bathabile

Nyathi -CESHHAR (2 staff and 1 Sex Worker representative).

          4. METHODOLOGY

The Exposure visit embraced a variety of methodologies that included: Conference Room based presentations, Discussions and

Dialogues as well as Field Visits and interactions with Community Based Organisations staff and Sex Worker communities. The visit also included direct interaction with the Judiciary Services Commission of

India and the Police.

4.1 DAY 1: MONDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 2014

4.1.1 OVERVIEW OF THE HIV EPIDEMIC IN INDIA

4.1.2 The first HIV case  was identified in 1986, in India at Chennai

4.1.3 India has an estimated number of 2.39 million People Living With

HIV.

4.1.4 The epidemic is concentrated among the high-at-risk groups

(Female Sex Workers (FSWs), Men who have sex with Men

(MSMs), Transgender (TG), Intravenous Drug Use (IDUs) and

clients of FSWs) and prevalence is higher in these groups compared to the general population.

4.1.5 National AIDS Control Organisation was created by the Government of India to prevent, control the HIV epidemic and monitor the different programmes in the country.

4.1.6 Major route of transmission is through unprotected sex. While Injecting Drug Use is the predominant route of transmission in North-eastern states, it accounts for 1.7% of HIV infections nationally.

4.1.7 The  estimated number of new annual HIV infections had declined by more than 56% over the past decade

4.1.8 There was steady decline in the annual AIDS deaths since the roll out of free ART programme in India in 2004.

4.1.9 The round of estimates has confirmed the decline of HIV prevalence among FSWs at national levels and in most states. However, the evidence shows that IDUs and MSMs are more and more vulnerable to HIV with increasing trends in many states.

4.1.10       According to Michel Sidibe, Executive Director of UNAIDS, India's success comes from using an evidence-informed and human rights-based approach that is backed by sustained political leadership and civil society engagement.

          4.2.2 Government of India's response to the HIV epidemic

Three key programmes are to reckon with here and are as follows:

4. National AIDS Control Programme Phase I (NACP-I), which focused on blood safety and raising awareness ii. National AIDS Control Programme Phase II (NACP-II), which focused on behaviour change, and iii. National AIDS Control Programme Phase III (NACP-III), which aims at halting and reversing the HIV epidemic in India    4.2.3 National AIDS Control Programme Phase (NACP) III adopted the following:

• Targeted Interventions for High Risk Groups (Female Sex Workers (FSW), Men who have Sex with Men( MSM) ,

Intravenous Drug Users (IDU), Truckers & Migrants)

• Link Worker Scheme for rural population
• Prevention and control of Sexually Transmitted Infections
• Information, Education and Communication (IEC), Social

Mobilisation and mainstreaming

• Condom promotion
• Blood safety, and
• Counselling and Testing Services (Integrated Counselling and Testing Centre (ICTC), Prevention of Parent to Child

Transmission (PPTCT)) and HIV-TB Co-infection Targeted

Interventions)

          4.2.4 Other key issues for successful programme implementation observed

• The understanding by the community that sex work is to some extend its creation as most women are driven into the industry due to death of spouse, deception by spouse and being dedicated to gods of lust.
• The importance of working with High- at -Risk Group (Female Sex Work). It is critical to work with a person from the affected community and one who is acceptable to the community.
• Sensitisation of the police and the judiciary is an important component in Sex Workers programming.
• Issuance of the Identity Cards to the Female Sex Workers (FSW) and Peer Educators to protect them from police harassment during their work.
• Legal empowerment of the FSW through paralegal training; FSW trained as paralegals are recognised by the judiciary system and issued with Identity Cards, conferring status and protection;
• Crisis management access through telephone hotlines and snowball systems provides support to KAP in need.

          4.3 THE RESPONSE: AVAHAN COMMON MINIMUM

PROGRAMME

4.3.1 In 2003 the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation began its large

HIV prevention program, the India AIDS Initiative, later called Avahan, to help curtail the spread of HIV in India which at the time was predicted to suffer from a massive epidemic if measure were not taken fast and effectively.

The foundation has three primary goals for this initiative:

1. Build an HIV prevention model at scale in India ii. Catalyse others to take over and replicate best practices iii. Foster and disseminate lessons learned within India and worldwide

4.2.2 Avahan is a focused prevention program, reaching High-at – Risk-Groups and bridge populations in geographic areas most affected, with a proven package of prevention interventions. 4.2.3 The Avahan package of prevention interventions is designed to address both proximal and distal determinants of HIV risk.

4.3.4 Proximal determinants of risk include factors such as presence of sexually transmitted infections (STIs), condom use, type and frequency of sexual activity and type of partner. Prevention services such as outreach, behaviour change messaging on safe sex, free or socially marketed condom distribution, syringe and needle exchange (for injecting drug use) and treatment of STIs address proximal determinants

of risk.

4.3.4 Distal determinants include stigma, violence, legal environment, medical infrastructure, mobility and migration, and gender roles. They are addressed through structural interventions and community mobilization aimed at reducing stigma, violence, and barriers to accessing entitlements.

          4.4 PRESENTATION FROM THE ZIMBABWE

DELEGATION ON COUNTRY PRIORITIES AND

CHALLENGES

The following salient points were raised:

4.4.1 Zimbabwe's HIV prevalence is generalised and homogenous unlike India where the epidemic is concentrated among the FSW, IUD and MSM. During the presentation it was highlighted that for a generalised epidemic like Zimbabwe there is need for focused interventions not targeted interventions like in concentrated epidemic. The province with the highest prevalence and lowest prevalence were highlighted and there was a discussion on what contributed to such a high prevalence compared to less than 1% HIV prevalence for India

4.4.2 The drivers of HIV transmission in Zimbabwe were highlighted as multiple concurrent partnership and 94 % is through heterosexual unlike in India were IUD and MSM as well as FSW are the groups that spread the HV infection. Zimbabwe highlighted that the epidemic has a feminine face as more women were affected than men

4.4.3 The priority intervention strategies of the Combination HIV prevention were highlighted and similarly India has the combination

HIV strategy which guides The implementation of their activities

4.4.4 The current sex worker programme for Zimbabwe was discussed. It was mentioned that the programme is implemented by Nongovernmental organisations.  The aims of the programme were highlighted as follows: reduction of HIV acquisition among sex workers, reduction of HIV transmission to their clients and improvement of rights of sex workers. India has similar aims but they have gone further to creating an enabling environment for sex workers by integrating the judiciary and law enforcement agents in the programme.

4.4.5 The service delivery models for the sex worker programme were also highlighted which included static and mobile services. The  use of drop in centres just like India were discussed

4.4.6 The challenges of the sex worker programme in Zimbabwe were highlighted which included among others criminalization of sex work and limited understanding of the rights of sex workers, limited collectivization and programme leadership by sex workers as well as the high HIV prevalence among the sex workers.

4.4.7 The Zimbabwe and shared their expectations of the visit and they included knowledge sharing, information on empowerment of sex workers and also increased country ownership of the programme

4.4.8 The presentation was followed by a lengthy discussions and recommendations that included conducting size estimates of the key populations and also mapping of hot spots for key population.

4.5 Key Lessons:

4.5.1 India implements targeted interventions to combat a concentrated epidemic

4.5.2 In-depth information on vulnerable groups is key for successful programming

4.5. 3 Size estimation of KP can be carried out through community involvement including micro mapping of hot spots

4.5.4 Government in India was willing and has resources to scale up successful interventions.

          5.0 DAY 2:  TUESDAY, 11 NOVEMBER 2015

          5.1 Community Mobilisation

Mr. Ramachandran Rao shared with the delegation, 3 main topics namely:

1. The approach to strengthening outreach, monitoring and ownership of programmes by key populations
2. Best Practices/ Success for Mobilization and Collectivization among FSW and Non Brothel Based Sex Workers
3. Income generation activities for positives and collectives
4. An overview of the link workers scheme

          5.2 Approach to strengthen outreach

The session focused on how outreach activities are strengthened for KAPs. Other key points touched on the priorities of Sex Workers

(SWs) themselves, why SWs are vulnerable, and the typology of Sex Work in India. It was also stated that Sex Workers are directly involved in running self-help groups, crisis management system and social entitlements.

 5.3 Crisis Management System being run by the sex workers themselves

5.3.1 Sex Workers have developed a crisis management system whereby if any one of the SWs is faced with a crisis for example violence by a client, or is arrested, they call a hotline number and help is guaranteed within 24 hours.

5.3.2 The hotline numbers are those of fellow sex workers who will link up the sex worker to the relevant assistance or at times they can physically attend the scene where the incident is or has occurred.

5.3.3 This system is meant to build string social cohesion among sex workers as well as protect each other from possible violence that may occur.

 5.4 BestPractices success for mobilization and collectivisation among FSWs

There is need for programmers to first of all gain the confidence of the community for successful implementation. This involves communications with the community leaders as well as other influential or key people within that community to discuss and get important feedback regarding that community. In addition, there is need to engage the already existing stakeholders within the community for possible integration and cooperation

          5.5 Income generation activities for positives and collectives       Sex Workers are running the Income Generating Projects (IGPs) themselves and this involved a lot of commitment. IGPs involve savings and microfinance schemes that rely on regular contributions.

          5.6  INTERACTION WITH JYOTHI MAHILA SANGA - A

FSW CBO IN BANGALORE

5.6.1 The delegation had an opportunity to interact with 2 FSWs who came to share their experiences as sex workers in Bangalore. They shared details of their lives and what pushed them into sex work.

5.6.2 It was interesting to note that the reasons for going into sex work are similar to our Zimbabwean context. Jyothi shared that she was divorced with two children and needed to look after he children as the husband was not supportive. At some point she was homeless, faced violence from clients and police including her ex-husband until she was introduced to the sex work programme being implemented by KHPT.

5.6.3 Through programme interventions, both sex workers were now empowered, have secured employment with the programme and are able to look after their children as well as being aware of their rights, how to keep safe and healthy as a sex worker.

          5.7  EXPOSURE TO A COMMUNITY LED HIV/AIDS

PREVENTION RESPONSE WITH FSW- VISIT TO VMS DROP

IN CENTRE

5.7.1 Ms. Geetha & Mr. Parameshwara Holla shared with the delegation on the process of scaling up targeted interventions with FSW in Bangalore city focusing on the following processes:

• Planning outreach and using micro planning and monitoring tools

(Site Validation , Service Uptake, Line Listing)

• Addressing needs of the community beyond condoms and STI services
• Facilitating meaningful involvement of SW at all levels of the intervention program and building trustful relationships with public health programme

5.7.2 The delegation later visited the VMS sex workers drop in center where the project coordinator shared with the delegation on their programme and what they do. A question and answer session followed with the Zimbabwean delegation asking for further clarifications on how the sex workers managed to create a bank account that lends cash and how they have been able to sustain it. VMS staff explained that the association made it possible to open a communal bank account, which individuals had previously been unable to do due to lack of

Identification papers and other restrictions. In addition, members of VSM have access to the government-supported soft loan scheme and other social benefits. All members of the association regularly contribute small amounts from their income (on a weekly basis). These funds are used for loans to members of the association. Training in essential business skills is also offered to members to prepare them for opening their own small businesses. VSM has successfully established a catering business run by its members.

5.8 Key Lessons

5.8.1  Community consultation and recognition of their most important needs, as well as inclusion of those into programme design are essential for successful engagement of KAPs in Health & HIV programmes.

5.8.2 Community needs include housing, school fees, and reduction of violence.

5.8.3 Despite high poverty levels, it must be recognized that KAPs have some resources and are willing to contribute towards goals that they recognize as important – this enables economic empowerment through microfinance schemes & state-supported soft loans.

5.8.4 Self-help systems can be established and successfully run by the community such as crisis hotlines.

          6.0 DAY 3:  WEDNESDAY, 13 2014

Day 3 of the exposure visit was mainly conference room based learning and covered the following areas:

          6.1 Enabling Environment and Advocacy

This session was facilitated by Mr Mahapat shared with the delegation his experience in the advocacy work. Part of his background included that he had worked both in NGOs and in Government and this gave him good experience to engage both NGOs and Government when they were starting the programme.

          6.2 Rebranding Sex Work

He acknowledged the value the preliminary studies helped to give them an idea on where and when to target. He also emphasised on the need to know your epidemic before deciding on a response. He also confirmed that the epidemic in India was concentrated and it was largely sexual driven and had the face of a FSWs. He also expressed the importance of knowing the type of sex workers (Typology) as all this epidemiological data helps programmers with key ideas on what should guide them as they programme. The first task undertaken by his team included rebranding of FSW after realising that most of them would naturally not have taken to sex work but rather circumstances had forced them into sex work. As such as a program realised that FSWs were ‘Women subjected to atrocities’ .His team realised that there were so many forces at play around sex workers once they got in they could not get out.

They also realised that HIV was very little of medical but mainly a social and economic problem within the FSWs communities. As such they designed an all-inclusive integrated programme that addresses medical as well socio-economic issues around FSWs and their children.

          6.3 Opportunities for partnerships

The facilitator also shared that as an organisation they also realised that government had a lot of authority while NGOs had no authority while NGOs where islands of excellence (as they work outside the system). Government in turn provided a good platform   for scale up of the same best practice within the system. This, according to Mr. Mahapat provided the opportunity for collaborative partnerships and building synergies between government and NGOs and further strengthens trust and mutual understanding that in turn helped with advocacy efforts.

          6.4 Advocacy Efforts with the Police

6.4.1 Interaction with the FSWs also helped to reveal the level of association and levels of abuse of FSWs by law enforcement agents. The Programme Team struggled at length with Police who finally agreed to work with COD. One of the researches done showed high level of HIV in the police almost matching levels in FSWs. This evidence was used in the advocacy efforts to ensure that the police are also targeted in the interventions, particularly on access to information on HIV and provision of ART to the Police force that test positive. In the process a partnership was established between the Police department and CBOs

6.4.2 These advocacy efforts paid off with the Government of Karnataka agreeing to include in the pre-service manual for Police cadets, a module added on Gender, HIV and Marginalised Communities. It was also reported that since these mainstreaming efforts started, FSWs reports of perpetrated Gender Based Violence had fallen from about 20 % to about 7 % from the Routine data sources from the CBOs working with Karnataka. Emphasis was also put on the role of CBOs in carrying out the training of the gender sensitive manual. The FSWs champions working the various CBO become the trainers and share their lived experience in the hand of the law enforcement agents with the Police Cadets.

          6.5 Advocacy Efforts with the Judiciary

The same level of advocacy was targeted to the Judiciary system as most of the FSWs lamented the level of stigma and discrimination they suffered at the hands of the Judiciary system. Some of the complaints included: Delays in getting their cases heard and Judges showing attitudes the when they hear it’s a FSW. This resulted in mainstreaming of gender HIV and handling of marginalised communities in the Court System. It also resulted in the training of FSWs as Paralegals Cadres that link the community with the Judiciary system in Karnataka. These paralegals will also be used to as trainer for the HIV component on the Judge and Prosecutor pre-service trainings in the same way as with the police.

          6.6 Clinical Services

The presenter also shared how they were using syndromic management of STIs among sex workers and how they had devised a colour coding system to help practitioners with the dispensing of medication. The colour coding has made the system simpler and more user friendly for the health practitioners that dispense the medicine. It was interesting to note that the effect of STI trainings on practices was limited: While between 70-80% of practitioners could correctly describe the required treatments, only around 30% treated patients according to protocols even after the training. This was established using mystery clients, and helped in informing a tight Monitoring and Evaluation system which all practitioners have to adhere to.

In India, the majority of health care is supplied by the private sector – only around 30% of the population access health services through the public sector. KHPT built partnerships with the private sector based on which facilities were frequented by FSW – the information was gained from micro-mapping and community assessments.

6.7 Meeting with Justice Kumar (sitting high-court judge and former director of the judicial academy) at the Judicial Training

Academy

The delegation met with Justice Kumar and a team from the academy including the current director.  After a brief sharing of the delegation’s experiences and impressions so far, Justice Kumar explained the initiative in the judicial system:

6.7.1 It transpired that the legal code in India contains the exact same provisions as are present in Zimbabwe – selling sex is not illegal, but loitering with intent, soliciting, and living of the proceeds of sex work are illegal. The judge explained how these provisions were meant to protect women from exploitation as well as protect the public, and intended to be used against owners of brothels and traffickers but were often misinterpreted.

6.7.2 In his previous capacity as the director of the judicial training institute he had introduced training on the correct use of the existing laws in the context of sex work into the curricula for all judges and prosecutors in training.

6.7.3 In addition, the academy also introduced mandatory training sessions on weekends for Judges and Prosecutors already active in the system. All personnel were obliged to participate in these sessions, which were facilitated through KHPT and involved sex workers as co-

facilitators.

6.7.4 This resulted in a general attitude change among these cadres from seeing sex workers as criminals and offenders to perceiving them as victims of poverty and societal strictures.

6.7.5  The entire initiative appeared to have resulted from the

Justice’s personal conviction and change of mind after having had interactions with KHPT where the organisation presented him with evidence of the mistreatment of sex workers by the judicial system.

6.7.6 The meeting validated KHPT’s explanations during the morning session and stressed the need for interactions by advocates with high-level officials, based on sound evidence and using personal connections to advance the programme.

                6.8     Interaction with Karnataka State Police

KHPT invited the delegation for a formal dinner which included a personal interaction with Mr. T.S Ramesh, the recently retired former Director General of the Karnataka State Police. Due to the setting in a dining room the interaction with Mr. Ramesh was limited to Dr. C. Nyamkure, Ms. D. Hanisch, and Ms. S Mtetwa. Mr Ramesh related how he personally took an interest in the unjust and essentially illegal discrimination which sex workers often experienced from police officers. He stated that due to his interactions with KHPT, he initiated police trainings on managing key populations. In some instances, police officers who had sexually abused sex workers were identified and prosecuted. Overall attitude change in the police force was observed, substantiated by data related by KHPT during the morning presentations.

The delegation requested information on work in and with prisons – Mr

Ramesh explained that HIV information, as well as HIV testing and ART, had been made available in the prisons in Karnataka for inmates and staff. Condom distribution, however, could not be introduced. When asked to explain the reasons, he reiterated that since inmates are supposed to be supervised in a controlled environment, the distribution of condoms would have been tantamount to the authorities admitting that they had failed in their duties of controlling inmates’ interactions with each other. This precluded the introduction of condom distribution to inmates.

6.9 Key Lessons

1. 9.1 KHPT managed to engage both Police and Judiciary in a productive manner, resulting in
2. pre- and in-service trainings for both sectors with the effect that the actual experience of sex
3. workers in their interactions with police and judiciary significantly improved over a four year period.

6.9.2 A crucial point was raised by KHPT in the necessity to engage police and judiciary at the highest level for programmatic change to move forward.

6.9.3 From insights shared by KHPT, personal contacts in combination with the gathering and sharing of sound evidence facilitated engagement of police and judiciary at the highest levels.

6.9.4 Training of sex workers as paralegals, and involvement of sex workers in the trainings of police and judiciary, contributed significantly to the substantial improvements with relation to police violence and court treatment of sex workers.

          7.0 DAY 4: THURSDAY- 13 NOVEMBER 2014

7.1    The planned programmes for day four were as follows:

1. A visit to Chickballapur for the delegates to have the opportunity to interact with the various stakeholders at state level that include District Judiciary Personnel; the police, prosecution and health officials.
2. A visit to Soukhya Sanjeevini Samsthe, a Community Based

Organisation (CBO).

7.2 INTERACTION WITH STAKEHOLDERS AT

CHICKBALLAPUR

7.2.1 There was a rousing welcome of the Zimbabwean delegation at Chickballapur. Most of the government departments at state level were represented at the meeting that was held in a court room at Chickballapur District Court. The judicial personnel, the police, prosecution, and health officials were in attendance. The Indian counterparts were led by the District Judge.

7.3 Address by the Zimbabwean delegates on their experiences in India:

The Zimbabwean delegates were able to brief the Chickballapur community on the useful insights they got from the learning visit:

7.3.1 That the multi-sectoral approach to implementation of HIV/AIDS programmes in India is encouraging. This will enhance collaboration in Zimbabwe since the National Aids Council has already taken steps to mobilise all stakeholders in all sectors in the fight against HIV/AIDS in the country;

7.3.2 that the targeted approach in the fight against HIV/AIDS that focuses mainly on key drivers such as sex workers has helped reduce the rate of infection and prevalence in Kartanaka State;

7.3.3 that Zimbabwe will utilise some of the insights learnt in India to launch its own targeted approach that will also include sex workers; and

7.3.4 That Zimbabwe has appreciated the similarities between the Indian jurisdiction and the Zimbabwean Jurisdiction in that both do not criminalise the selling of sex but they criminalise the soliciting for sex.

7.3.5 That India has effectively dealt with the negative perception towards sex workers in the Judiciary and the Police through training and development of the Judges, Magistrates and the police officers.

7.3.6 That a sex worker is no longer treated as a criminal in court but as a victim of sexual violence whom the court depends on as a witness in the provision of evidence.

7.3.7 That there is a vibrant crisis management mechanism in which the sex workers, peer leader and the police cooperate when there is a distress call from any sex worker being abused.

7.4 Address by the Chickballapur leaders on their role in the fight against HIV/AIDS:

7.4.1 that India has put in place laws that prohibits woman trafficking and sexual abuse of women and children;

7.4.2 that the judiciary’s role is also to popularise moral life and marriage institution;

7.4.3 that the Judiciary’s role in punishing sexual offenders has reduced

violence against sex workers, women and children;

7.4.4 That the community has now appreciated that the sex worker is not to blame because the reasons to be sex worker is to be blamed on the community itself, poverty and tradition. Therefore, the community should take the lead in the rehabilitation of the sex workers.

7.4.5 that the focus is not only to teach people about HIV being spread by sexual contact but to also teach both urban and rural people that it is also spread by other means such as drug abuse, blood transfusion, tainted/unsterilized blades and syringes etc.;

7.4.6 that the model of targeted approach to HIV prevention in India that focuses on sex workers and involving all groups in the communitypolice, courts, hospitals, village heads and NGOs can be reciprocated in any developing country such as Zimbabwe;

7.4.7 that the targeted approach does not only seek to impart knowledge for sex workers to prevent spread of infections but it has brought about the provision of other services to sex workers such as HIV testing, medical treatment to those with STI, access to counselling and HIV Antiretroviral tablets to those who are HIV positive; and

7.4.8 That the condomization of sex is being popularised.

7.5INTERACTION WITH COMMUNITY BASED ORGANISATION, SOUKHYA SANJEEVINI SAMSTHE

7.5.1 After the meeting with the district court and other stakeholders the delegation toured Soukhya Sanjeevini Samsthe, a CBO in the rural community. The meeting was held with the leadership of the CBO.

7.6Main points from the presentation of the CBO activities

The delegates appreciated the level of financial and technical support from Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and Karnataka Health Promotion Trust (KHPT). The CBO made a presentation on its activities to the Zimbabwean delegation. The following were some of the critical messages from this interaction:

7.6.1 The CBOs are formed by sex workers themselves to help them achieve self-reliance and sustainable socio-economic and educational development;

7.6.2 The CBO’s aim is not only to create HIV awareness to the sex workers themselves but to also bring about change for the sex workers to live a dignified life as human beings who deserve respect as other people in their profession;

7.6.3 The management and administration of CBO is conducted with the framework of recognised corporate governance ideals that call for the setting up of a Board of Management and an implementation arm for operations.

7.6.4 The CBOs have been effective in ensuring the reduction of infection rate in Karnataka State through the provision of other health related services to sex workers and their families e.g. access to medical, HIV testing, condoms and counselling at the Drop in Centre.

7.6.5 The sex workers have set up their micro-finance facilities through their own Cooperative Banks where members contribute money to a central pool and lend money to each other at the rate of 18% per annum;

7.6.6 Through the soft loans sex workers have opened successful businesses such as tailoring, handcraft and tuck shops; candle producing and cow rearing businesses;

7.6.7 The CBOs have facilitated training of sex workers to acquire various skills such tailoring, candle making and business management;

7.6.8 The CBOs have exposed some sex workers to paralegal training so that they can be able to assist in the provision of legal aid to fellow sex workers.

7.7 Key Lessons

7.7.1           Opinions expressed by the district team testify to significant positive changes in attitudes towards sex workers but indicate that a lot of advocacy is still required to achieve acceptance of sex work and sex workers at a societal level. This appears to be linked to broad societal norms and values.

7.7.2 CBO’s are sex worker run, intimately involved in programme design, planning & implementation and capable of carrying on the programme with limited technical support after the initial set-up phase where KHPT provided substantial guidance.

7.7.3 Economic empowerment is key to long-term and fundamental improvements in the situation of sex workers.

         8.0 DAY 5: FRIDAY, 14 NOVEMBER 2014

8.1 This was the last day of the Learning and Exposure Study Visit. The day was short and had two main sessions which covered

KHPT’s Monitoring and Evaluation system as well as a discussion on the way forward for the Zimbabwe programme after the visit. M&E content is presented below in tabular form in detail. The key issues on Monitoring and Evaluation included the following:

8.1.1 In-depth information gathering before programme planning, involvement of communities already at the baseline & planning stage

8.1.2 Use of national data—India runs national Integrated Behavioural and Biological Assessment (IBBA) studies on a regular basis which Zimbabwe does not do.

8.1.3 Design of a stringent and grass-roots based monitoring and data collection system

8.1.4 Ongoing programme evaluation through community assessments, surveys, and qualitative instruments

8.1.5 KHPT used polling booth surveys (PBS) to improve reliability of KAP surveys – this involves substitution of an interviewer with a polling booth system.

8.2 Key Lessons:

8.2.1 Disaggregated and up-to-date data on size & distribution of

KP communities needs to be

8.2.2 obtained, involving KPs as well as key stakeholders at community level in the exercise

8.2.3 KAP study methodology can be modified to obtain more reliable results – PBS

8.2.4 It is possible to use CBOs to collect monitoring data electronically

9.0 SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES BETWEEN

INDIA AND ZIMBABWE

During the interaction, the delegation noted some similarities and differences as tabulated below.

SIMILARITIES	DIFFERENCES
1. India  is also a former British Colony	1. India has double number of People Living with HIV compared to Zimbabwe
2. Response operation under  repressive legal framework like Zimbabwe	3. India’s epidemic is concentrated in SWs, IDUs and MSM
4. National AIDS Control Programme was also established to assist Government of India	2. India response is based on evidence, and a Human Rights based approach
with managing the response
5. Steady decline in the prevalence for over a decade	3. India’s response is sustained by political leadership &strong CSO engagement
	4. India has a strong M&E &Coordination System

 

10.0 WAY FORWARD AND RECOMMENDATIONS 

       Judiciary & Police

10.1 Seek high-level engagement with Judiciary and Police based on insights from the visit to

4. advocate for the inclusion appropriate modules dealing with key populations in pre-service
5. (and in-service, funding permitting) trainings for all relevant cadres.

10.2 In order to achieve the above, pursue further engagement especially with Justice Kumar and

6. Mr Ramesh to interact with Zimbabwean counterparts from Judiciary and Police.

10.3 At community level

10.4 Explore the possibilities of micro-financing to foster incomegenerating projects for KAP in

7. Zimbabwe, taking into account the different economic realities between India and Zimbabwe

10.5 To this end, facilitate interaction between sex workers in

Zimbabwe and India to share

8. experiences using the facilities of the Bridge Project (e.g. skype conferences)

10.6 Micro-mapping could aid in generating a reliable size estimation of key populations

9. nationwide

10.7 Promote community involvement in planning through microplanning of interventions based

10. on site-specific micro-mapping

In India, Madam Speaker, we were told about a god where young girls are dedicated and he lives in a special place where man when they want sex, they go and sleep with those girls.  So, it is evident that when that girl runs away from there she is going to be a sex worker and that for me is demonic.  But there are those sex workers who are out there because they have no jobs; they have nothing else to but to do that.  My experience talking to the sex worker we traveled with, who was very empowered and clear about it.  She said she would make something like US$100 a day, so whatever job she would need would have to provide that for her.  She was amenable if organizations out there or if Government would put seed money targeting them, she would respond

to that.

One of the recommendations we came back with as a team from Zimbabwe was that we would set up a technical working group that would meet every month with UNFPA to look at where we can find money to start working with sex workers.  We have since identified that ILO has actually started on income generation in Beitbridge for sex workers and that programme is going on very well.

We also visited one of the cooperatives in India where sex workers have come up contributing money and they now have a small SME bank where they borrow money and start tuck shops and things like that.  So it was an experience and one of the resolutions we reached while we there was that when we come, we shall invite an all stakeholder conference or workshop on HIV and the sex worker. Madame Speaker, we have since done that.

The other resolution was that we start lobbing for decriminalisation of loitering that has been taken over by events.  So, we have actually achieved our three objectives that we decided when we went to India that we will have to come home and implement.

Madam Speaker, Sex workers are our children, they are our sisters and let us not frown against the sex workers because one cannot have sex without a man but with somebody.  So, there is a sex worker man and a sex worker woman, if we look at it that way then we will endeavor to control the epidemic.  Thank you.

1. MUSIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am also one of

those who attended the exposure visit.  The India experience - India is that it is a Commonwealth country and is a former British colony like us.  It is one of the countries that were devastated by the HIV/AID at the beginning of the pandemic.  They have achieved certain goals in reducing the incidence and the number of people living with HIV.       Now, as a model State in India Karnataka, the National Aids Council of Zimbabwe so it fit to send a delegation of Zimbabweans to go and learn from their experiences, to see how they have controlled this epidemic.  The studies in India identified that there were key affected populations in the HIV.  In layman terms, key affected populations are groups of people who are affected more than the general population.  So, these that were identified were mostly sex workers, men who have sex with men, truckers and intravenous drug users.

The Government of India, because of limited resources adopted what is known as a targeted approach.  With the limited amount of money available, they wanted to target the group where the Aids infection was highest.  So, the female sex workers realised that they have contributed to the spread of infection because of their multiple partners.  So, a study was done that involved the Government of India, the University of Manitoba from Canada, Bill and Melinda Gates

Foundation to form what was known as the Karnataka Health Promotion Trust.  Its main thrust was to rein in the work of sex workers.  They realised that as much as people do not like sex workers, they were contribution to the spread of HIV. So, they decided to target them.

What they have since done is to educate them by bringing peer educators, train them and then opened clinics where the sex workers are examined for STIs and HIV infection. These clinics are free. The high rate of STIs is contributory to HIV infection. They have since graduated them to form projects where they are able to make contributions. They have actually established a bank from which they can borrow money to start small businesses. Some of them have stopped being sex workers and for those who are still working as sex workers, they told us that because they were now economically empowered, they have got a choice.

Condom promotion is also very important in India. From the testimonies that we got, the sex workers told us that when they are hungry and men came to them, they did not have a choice on whether to go with a condom or without one. Now that they are now empowered and have got money, they are not hungry and can therefore choose to decline.

One other very important issue that we also learnt from India is the issue of blood. Free blood is one component of the Indian policy. Blood transfusions in India are free. It is one very important message we took home. In this country a pint of blood costs $135. For a lady who is going for a cesarean section probably would need three pints and that will cost about $500. This is also contributory because if we do not have blood that is free from HIV, we will not be able to control HIV/AIDS.

1. J.M. GUMBO: I move that debate do now adjourn.

MR. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 14^th July, 2015.

MOTION

HARMONISATION OF THE MINES AND MINERALS ACT AND

THE LANDS ACQUISITION ACT

1. NDUNA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House:

MINDFUL that Government, through its Land Reform Programme

undertook an agrarian revolution to address the colonial and historic land imbalances and foster ownership by the formally marginalised black majority;

COGNISANT that one of the four pillars of the Zimbabwe Agenda for Sustainable Socio-Economic Transformation blue print is anchored on food security and that agricultural land is the key enabler in this matrix;

FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that Sections 29 – 38 of the

Mines and Minerals Acts of 1951 gives the right to miners to displace farmers from agricultural land in order to exploit mineral deposits and can thereby create value for mineral rights;

CONCERNED that agricultural land is still being treated as though it is for subsistence only and of no value commercially and that this negates the gains made under the land reform programme and denies the new farmers the opportunities to use the value of the land as collateral for loans or as a means of realizing the value of their farms when they wish to dispose of them.

NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Executive to:

1. Expeditiously harmonise the Mines and Minerals Act and the

Lands Acquisition Act to bring them to parity and conformity with

each other so that farmers and miners have the right to establish ownership of the resources they are using for productive purposes;

1. Grant both farmers and miners secure rights to the resources they are using so that they can be valued and sold at market prices and used as collateral for the purpose of raising funds for productive enterprises; and
2. Urgently bring before Parliament amendments to the Land Acquisition Act and Mines and Minerals Act, clearly detailing the amendments and changes that will promote and facilitate the secure usage of the of the land by farmers for agricultural purposes and by mining either individually or in joint venture partnership between miners and farmers on the same land.
3. MUKWANGWARIWA: I second.
4. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, at independence, Zimbabwe inherited a racially skewed agricultural land ownership pattern where white large-scale commercial farmers, consisting of less than 1% of the population occupied 45% of agricultural land. Seventy-five percent of this is in the high rainfall areas of Zimbabwe, where the potential for agricultural production is high. Equally significant, 60% of this largescale commercial land was not merely under-utilised but wholly utilised.

Agrarian reform in Zimbabwe therefore, revolves around land reform where the systematic dispossession and alienation of the land, from the black indigenous people during the period of colonial rule, are adequately addressed. The Zimbabwean agrarian reform involves restructuring of access to land, and an overall transformation of the existing farming system, institutions and structures.

I preface my debate also by saying it should include access to markets, credit, training and social developmental and economic amenities. It seeks to enhance agricultural productivity, leading to industrial and economic empowerment and macro-economic growth in the long term.

How then can resettled farmers have access to credit if there is no security of tenure? How then can the resettled farmers be given loans by commercial banks if at any given time you can be removed from the land because a mineral has been discovered where a thriving commercial farm exists? –

1. ZVIDZAI: My point of order is though the member is debating a very important subject but he seems to be continuously referring to his notes by never raising his head. He is reading Madam Speaker.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. member, please just refer to

your notes. Please proceed.

1. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, by not giving ourselves security

of tenure and security to the resettled farmers, the black farmer marginalised majority we are shooting ourselves in the foot, not only as farmers or as individuals but nationally.

In the same vein, we are violating the Constitution, Section 289 on Principles Guiding Policy on Agricultural Land. In order to redress the unjust and unfair pattern of land ownership that was brought about by colonialism and to bring about the land reform and equitable access by all Zimbabweans to the country’s natural resources, policies regarding agricultural land must be guided by the following principles.

The land tenure system must promote increased productivity and investment by Zimbabweans in agricultural land. There are a few points that I want to bring to the fore for hon. members and House to take cognisant of. These are the following points:

A system that gives precedence to a mine over ownership of agricultural land surely does not promote increased productivity and investment by Zimbabweans in agricultural land;

A system that gives first preference to a mine over investment in farming surely does not exhort investment in food production, good health and nutrition.

You know in our ZIM ASSET agenda, food security is one of the key pillars. If we do not promote security on our land for the resettled farmers, we are not giving precedence to food security as enunciated in the ZIM ASSET agenda.

A system that gives priority to a mine over a farm especially without adequate exploration to determine the quantity and mineral resource surely does not encourage investment in farming but in mining only.  What will happen when you destroy a thriving farm only to discover that the mineral ore will disappear just as soon as you have discovered?

I need to also bring to your attention that a system that upholds the superiority of a mining concern over a farming concern surely is not interested in protecting and conserving the environment for future generations as so eloquently espoused in our Constitution.  Look at the once thriving agricultural rich land of Kitsiyatota which is now riddled with gullies.  To understand what I am talking about, spare a thought for Gift Gariya of Battlefields in Kwekwe whose maize crop was wiped out by a gold miner.  Spare a thought for Chinhoyi road on the left and on the right, the road is riddled with pot-holes.  This was once a thriving citrus plantation but because minerals have taken precedence over the land ownership or agricultural land, that land is now riddled with holes that are being exploited by miners at the expense of the resettled farmer.

How do we address this one?  We also want to empower the farmer using the mineral resources that are under the ground that the resettled farmer has been allocated land to. Hon. Anastancia Ndlovu will testify…

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order. Order. Hon. members, I am appealing to you that you lower your voices when you are whispering to each other.  If you cannot, please leave the House.  Hon. member, can you please proceed?

1. NDUNA: Hon. Anastancia Ndlovu will testify how the once beautiful and majestic scenery of Shurugwi has been rendered unsightly by mining over the usage of that land by the resettled farmer or landowner for productive purposes…

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. members on the front bench, you are making a lot of noise.  Hon. Porusingazi, we mean business when we are in this House.  Can you please proceed?

1. NDUNA: We will never regain our status as the bread basket of Africa if our policies do not reflect our endeavor to revive the agricultural sector. How do we revive the agricultural sector?  By making sure that what security the miner has over land using the Minerals Act of 1951 also cascades down to the land owner.  An example will be this one; if the miner gets mineral rights to land that is already owned by a resettled farmer, the Mineral or the Mines Act should come to parity with the Land Act so that whatever accrues to the mineral owner or the miner accrues to the land owner.  This does not leave the landowner out in the cold as the mine owner now flourishes using the minerals that reside in the same land where the resettled farmer now owns.

The lofty objectives of the land reform programme will remain but high sounding unachievable ideals if we do not walk the talk.  We are trying to empower the former marginalised owners of this country by empowering them using the affirmative action of the Agrarian Reform

Programme.  In the same vein, we should empower them when a miner comes and starts exploiting or identifies the same land of having minerals residing in it.

I went to Mutoko recently to conduct elections for Chairmanship of Mashonaland East Province which was then won by Hon. Biggie Matiza.  What happens in Mutoko is sad in that even those people that do not have security of tenure to the land that they are in, the communal farmers and those that have been resettled in the A1 farms and in the A2 farms have now been displaced by people that now are exploiting the granite rocks of Mutoko.  How can they benefit from the exploiters of this mineral resource?

If we bring to parity the Mines and the Lands Act of 2000, we will make sure that the landowner who came in before the miner gets to benefit in the same vein.  What then happens in terms of exploitation of the granite?  The money that accrues to the miner should first accrue to the land owner.  The worst case scenario should be a joint venture formulated by the land and communal owner and the exploiter of the mineral wealth.  This should then come to the executive just for harmonisation but the joint venture partnership should start at grassroots level without disenfranchising the land owner or the resettled farm owner or the owner of the communal set up.

Our farmers are millionaires in their own right and it should come out in the open that the land owner whom we have designed an affirmative action and empowered should not be dis-empowered using the Minerals Act.  I speak so eloquently, voluminously and vociferously about the bring to parity of these two Acts before our people are disenfranchised before our people are dis-empowered or go down to the doldrums of Zimbabwe’s economy. This was a bold step to empower our people. This House should say and rise with one voice to say where the miner is, the same place the land owner should benefit from that.

Recently, we heard from the Deputy Minister of Mines that the Act provides for the land owner not to be infringed upon on his rights in terms of the proximity to which a miner can peg – whether close to his property or otherwise and the size of the land which a miner is allowed to peg on or to do exploitation of mineral worth, but how many of these principles are being adhered to?  You will find that a miner or a commissioner of mines gives authority to a miner to go and exploit minerals at a land which is less than 100 hectares which goes against what is in the Mines Act.

The Deputy Minister alluded to the fact that as long as the land that is owned by the land owner is less than 100 hectares, there should be consensus between the land owner and the miner in terms of exploitation on that land owners land, but this is not being adhered to.  There is a lot of criminality, corruption and underhand dealings where the commissioners reside in terms of advancing the causes, ethos and the riches of the miner at the expense of the land owner.

This should be brought to a stop and how is this brought to a stop?  This House, according to Section 117, makes laws.  It crafts laws for the good governance of society and it should be noted that this is the House that has the power to bring parity to the issue that has to do with the Lands Act and the Mines Act.  How do we do that Madam Speaker?  If we conduct ourselves according to Standing Order 50, where are we supposed to see and interrogate the way the Executive carries out its mandate?  We will see that our people are now downtrodden because of the laws that we pass or because of the historic laws or the colonial imbalances that were there and that also comes out in the Acts that we designed way back in 1951.

So, we should stand up and make sure that we are not reversing the gains of our independence.  The gains of our independence are premised on giving land to the formerly marginalised black community.  In the same vein, let us empower them and enrich them with the same minerals that reside in that land by changing laws in this House for the betterment and empowerment of our formerly marginalised black majority.

Madam Speaker, I want to say having been given land where we formerly never used to have, it should not be a death sentence.  It should not be merely rural to urban migration.  It should be a tool of empowerment and enrichment.  We want to now derive wealth from that land that was given to us to address the imbalances of the colonial past.

When we talk of land in the same vein, we should talk of the minerals.

When we talk of land, in the same vein we should talk of the industrial establishment by the formerly marginalized black community.  When we talk of land, we should talk of good health because it comes out of the mineral wealth of our nation.  As we exploit our mineral wealth, we are not ploughing back that mineral wealth into those quarries that are left open.

A case in point is Mutoko.  Those granites will never go back to those quarries.  They are being transported day in day out.  We got on to this road which was written, ‘No through road, mining in progress.’   As long as you are not a miner, and that was being pointed out on that sign post, you were not allowed to go into that road but that road resides in the same place where the land owner occupies that land.  So, this is a case in point.  This is a very simple example of being disempowered in our own land.  We can empower our people by harmonising these laws and there is no reason why we cannot harmonise these laws because those people, part of them that were empowered during the land reform programme are in this House.  They are now the law makers.  There is no reason why they cannot make laws for the good governance of the society.

Madam Speaker, I conclude by thanking you for giving me this opportunity.  If I had not been given this opportunity, my point would not have been well ventilated.  I ask hon. members to stand up with one voice and to come up and agree with me that we need parity of the Lands Act and the Minerals Act in order to empower the formerly marginalised black community.  I thank you.

1951. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to basically oppose what the last speaker was advocating for. Madam Speaker, yes it is a fact that this Act was passed in 1951.  However, where mining is conducted nowhere in the world does farming take priority over mining.  This Government in Chiadzwa moved out farmers into a different area in order to give priority to diamond mining.  It is the yield that you get out of mining in terms of benefit to the nation that influences the laws that were put in place to ensure that maximum benefit to the nation is actually achieved through exploitation of minerals.

While we are an agro based economy in Zimbabwe, we should not actually lose sight of the fact that Zimbabwe has over 60 minerals.  For your own information, Madam Speaker, the only place that took precedence over mining is the National Sports Stadium because where it stand right now, there is a gold deposit that was exploited some years back which could not be reversed when the National Sports Stadium was put up.  However, to equate the Land Reform Act so that it actually distributes wealth equally with mining is not logical because in terms of reward we will lose out.  In fact, the current law provides that any farmer whose operations are disrupted by his area being pegged by a mine or a claim being put up can be resettled in areas where the land is almost equivalent to where he would have been displaced from and we

see this as befitting.

Interestingly enough, the last speaker stood up last week to say that

2 500 jobs had been created in Chakari, which is the area he represents and he said that these workers are actually makorokoza.  I am just wondering why today he is coming back and saying those 2 500 jobs should be lost and priority given to farming.  So, he is contradicting himself and I think it is not fair to ask this House to support him when last week he was actually…

1. NDUNA: On a point of Order Madam Speaker, I did not contradict myself I am trying to bring to parity the land…

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order hon. member?

1. NDUNA: The hon. member said that I am calling for the

eviction of 2 500 artisanal miners.  I did not call for the …

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon. member, can you take your seat. Order! Hon members, hon. member you have moved your motion, allow hon. members to debate on that motion, at the end – Can you take your seat – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order! Hon member order! I am talking to the hon. member, allow hon. members to debate on the motion, at the end when the motion is being adopted you will have a chance to close your motion.

1. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I was

referring to ...

1. MANDIPAKA: On a point of order. Thank you Madam Speaker. I stand guided by principles and ethics; it appears no one is seconding the motion.

THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Whenever anyone stands up to

debate on that motion, it is allowed. Can we proceed please?

1. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Madam Speaker. As I pointed

out, it is not to the benefit of our country to prevent mining to actually progress if not faster than the rate that we are currently undertaking.  I recall that this country became the bread basket of Africa when we had no mining rights.  For us to try and blame mining as impeding farming,

it is not correct.

In my opinion I do believe there is no need to reconcile the two pieces of legislation because by the end of the day we stand to benefit if they are allowed in the status quo that we currently have.  In fact, while there has always been, from my experience, conflict between a miner and a farmer, these conflicts have been amicably resolved.  In most cases it is a win win situation where a farmer is actually resettled in an area where they have better soil than where they were operating from.

I heard him quoting the Mutoko issue, in 1976, the granite stone was declared as a mineral.  Prior to that, chiefs and sub-chiefs would actually dish it out to whoever was interested in cutting the stone and taking it away.  I believe yes, we need legislation to ensure that locals in Mutoko are protected from certain types exploitation that disrupt their normal daily living and also disturb their traditional way of life.  I am aware that in the Mutoko area, we have a situation where hyenas have shifted from the mountains and are now living together with people and are attacking their livestock.  That cannot be allowed.  In areas like that mining has to be regulated and controlled to the benefit of the locals without necessarily having them exploited.

The first miners in that area, I am aware, were cutting stones and leaving without rehabilitation of those particular areas but now the law requires that if you have carried out any mining in an area, there should be restitution in restoring the land to its former origins by planting grass and planting trees.  It is not a question of saying reconcile the farmer and miner in Mutoko, it is a question restoring the land to almost what it was prior to the exploitation through mining.

Madam Speaker. In my own opinion I stand not to support what the mover of the motion has moved for. Thank you.

1. HOLDER: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Nduna for airing his views to this motion. Those are his views. His Excellency, the President, made a Presidential Speech and said that the mining department plays an important role in the recovery of this economy. Yes, the Mines and Minerals Act was made in 1951 but we all know that this country was colonised by British people.  Land was taken away from people, people were moved.  This is what caused people to fight, to get the land back.  Now that we have got it back, the problem we are facing is that the Mines and Minerals Act states clearly that mining takes precedence to all the other laws.

The farmer has the surface rights but the miner has mineral rights.  The problem that we are facing is that when a person gets a piece of land and finds out that someone was mining there for years, he becomes selfish and greedy and says this is my land and you need to move.  The minerals belong to the person who was authorised by the Government to mine.  The Mines and Minerals Act clearly states that, if a person has more than 150ha, you notify the current owner of the land to say that you will be prospecting for this mineral.  When it is less than that, the new Statutory Instrument states that you need to first get permission from the person who is occupying that piece of that land.  When you get permission, there are so many procedures, the council is involved, the chief, the community and the owner is involved to grant you permission.  The Ministry of Mines and Mining Development does not just say go to Hon. Maridadi’s farm and start mining.  He has the chance to object if

he has programmes or plans for that piece of land.

The only problem here is that miners have a one size fit all policy.  We are trying to regularise, this is why in all our Committees, Mines and

Energy Committee we keep asking when is the new policy coming up.  is it a one size fit all? What is the story? How do we justify a small, medium and large scale miner? For us, we need to make sure that we harmonize these laws but people need to be educated, especially those that have received pieces of land and those that were resettled.  They need to understand the difference between surface rights and mineral rights.  The hon. member did mention that Marange and Murowa people were moved.  The reason why they were moved is that - imagine where you have a community where you have a precious mineral that is being mined and you have these diamonds flowing within the community, yet our country needs these diamonds in order to recover the economy.

What should happen is that the Ministry of Mines and Mining

Development needs to make a policy, maybe a mining stock exchange because when a person comes and invests in this country, he invests knowing what is there.  What we know is that in this House we keep asking what the quantities of minerals are?  The hon. member did mention that there are over 60 minerals that are being mined, but how do we quantify that?  That information is there but the problem is that nobody has access to it.

The small farmer needs to be supported.  What we need to do is that we need to find a system where Government can also subsidise the farmer.  How do we do that?  Before he even grows his produce, we know Mr. Dube is growing wheat, Mr. Hlongwane is growing tobacco and we know exactly how many farmers are growing a particular produce.  The problem here is when farmers grow these produce, they do not have a proper marketing system and the markets are flooded.  When one grows tomatoes, everyone grows tomatoes and so, the market is flooded.  So, if we have a marketing system where Government can also subsidise, that will be good.  That is how we can support the agricultural land.

When we talk about mining, there is a lot that has to be considered.  Nothing underground is good there without benefiting the Government, people, the country and the economy – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We need to make sure that these resources are mined and mined in an environmentally friendly way.  We are happy that the Mining

Development Section - [AN HON. MEMBER: ZMDC!] – not ZMDC, the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development is actually working on restructuring the system.  We used to have what we call Mining Commissioners, now we have Mining Directors.  We used to have provincial different structures where now the mining districts run parallel to the political districts, which means there is some sort of movement and development that is going on in that sector.

Madam Speaker, we need to understand that as we are proceeding and as the Mines and Minerals Act is being amended, we need to make sure that it is aligned so that we do not interfere with the environmental aspect. The mining sector has a problem where it adheres to say 14 different taxes and 22 Acts of Parliament.  You have got the Explosives Act, now when you look at the Explosives Act, for you to acquire a licence to purchase explosives, you need US$2 000.00, just for that licence.  Another US$1 000 just for another licence to look after the explosives that you have acquired and yet the small scale miner only uses US$100 to buy maybe 50 fuses or 10 fuses, 10 emulites and so he has got to spend US$ 3000 before he can spend a US$100, it becomes a challenge.  So, we need to try and see how the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development measures itself with a way to say that mining has been a success in this area.  Do we measure it from the revenue that is collected or do we measure it by the magnitude of mines?  This is where people need to see that Government needs to be a facilitator.  We need to make sure that some of the things that we are putting in place are in line with what our people can afford and what people can do.  We talk about regularizing small scale miners, we talk about regularizing makorokoza but even when we talk about people who were resettled, some of us use the wrong word and we say there are some squatters, which is wrong.

What we are saying is that these things need to be regularised in a way where people can be taught how to farm, how Government can subsidise and what is good for them to farm, whether it is small grain or different grain.  In the mining sector, we need to make sure that there must be two different types of policies.  We can never say high school, primary school and university is the same.  There are different measurements and we are being treated as one

So, Hon. Nduna did mention and kept complaining about the mining sector.  I feel that those that are interested in mining need to go and visit the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development and understand the Mines and Minerals Act properly.   Those that are into farming need also to understand - go and see madhumeni and they will teach you what needs to be done.

Madam Speaker, with these few words – [Laughter] – I do not want to lose it, as I always say to the hon. members - blessed are the short speeches for they shall be heard.  Thank you Madam Speaker.           *MR. MATAMBANADZO:  I thank you Madam Speaker, for the

opportunity that you have given me to add my voice to the motion that was raised by Hon. Nduna of miners and farmers.  There is a conflict between these groups.  He is saying the farmer should get everything from farming as well as mining rights.  I think we need to assist each other.  It is a good idea that you have brought in this House to guide each other on how to develop our economy in this country.  I was thinking that we have farmers who are into agriculture and then there is a miner who extracts minerals.  These two are different but are in the same country here in Zimbabwe.  These are different fields that are being encouraged by the President and supported to develop the nation.  Once we say one is good and the other is bad, we are going against what the President requires.  Yes, the legislation that you have been talking about, I was able to understand it because I was once a gardener. A farmer, Madam Speaker, is a person who has been given an offer letter, a certificate and land allocated to him.  The law says that he is supposed to farm on top of the soil; he is not allowed to go underground.

On the issue of the miners; what is in our legislation is written in English but when I read it, it was quite clear. How could you not understand it when I did?  A miner is allowed just to extract minerals, do mining activities and not to engage in agriculture. So I fail to understand where the conflict is coming from.

In this House, we should help people not to engage in conflict between the miners and the farmers.  The legislation says the farmer should engage just in farmingactivities and should not be involved in mining because it is a crime.  If you are a farmer and you engage in mining, you are going against the law. You cannot change a mining claim into farming land.  I think that is well balanced.

I want to talk about the issue that the President said that this country would be resuscitated economically by gold mining.  In Zambia, the economy is based on copper mining. If the country fails to produce copper it will fail economically and that is what will happen here as well.  This is what is probably causing the conflicts between the miner and the farmer, they are caused by us the Members of Parliament.  We should go and intervene, ensure that there is no conflict between the farmer and miner.

I want to tell you that Zimbabwe, like what the President says, its economy is based on gold, and even anyone can understand that it is so simple.  For a miner to be given laws by a farmer, we would have failed.  So, the miner should be given an opportunity to mine.  Mining does not take a lot of land.  A person is given 10 hectares of gold and on that claim, he can realise billions and billions of dollars. However, on those 10 hectares, he is not allowed to engage in farming but can only drill a tunnel that he can use to go underground to extract gold in the various tunnels that have gold.

Honestly, how can someone be in conflict with someone who is deep underground and yet as a farmer, he is only supposed to be working on the surface, using the top soil.  So, I think we should be able to make our people understand that a miner should mine and the farmer should use the top soil, engaging in farming and not mining.  Now, if a farmer wishes to engage in mining, probably they would have been told by their ancestral spirit that there is gold in this area, they can sit down and come up with a syndicate which is the merging of the licences.  The miner writes a letter informing the owner that he has found gold, and then they will get into an alliance whereby he seeks the authority to mine on the farmers land. So, they would have to sit down and come with an agreement to engage in mining activities.  They can also agree to engage in farming. There are actually two types of agreements that I want the House to understand.  There is agreement on one certificate and another agreement that is based on the band of available gold.  Both of you can get individual certificates and can engage in mining.  So, you need to go and conscientise your constituents like what I am doing in my constituency.

If you look at Kwekwe, yes, it is not a lie that there are so many tunnels because Kwekwe is the only town whereby gold is found along First Street.  So, it is not surprising really to come across different trenches along First Street.  We decided that we plant trees 200 metres from the street and we have told people that they are not allowed to go beyond that.  So, we allowed them to drill a tunnel and extract gold from underground,  hence there is no problem in Kwekwe. We have addressed the issues and it has produced a lot of gold.  The trenches that you used to see, we gave syndicates and now our people have certificates.  There are no longer gold panners in Kwekwe but syndicates.

There are over 6000 people who are engaged in mining at Globe and Phoenix Mine.  This is a mine that we negotiated with the white man.  We told them that we would take it by force if they refused to share.  The area that is being mined by 6000 miners is only about 20 hectares.  So, it is impossible Madam Speaker, to tell the people to stop mining.  I thank the President because he had foresight that our country can develop through gold mining.  Therefore, we should unite and support this motion because it is a positive one.  Thank you.

*MR. MUKWENA: Thank you Madam Speaker for the

opportunity that you have given me.  I have stood up to support the motion that was moved by Hon. Nduna.  He has moved a very good motion which touched on legislation that was put in 1951 concerning the Mines and Minerals Act which should be aligned to the Constitution. This legislation was enacted by the white men and they were doing it for themselves but Zimbabwe is now a people-centred country and these laws should be ensuring that everyone benefits.

Again, on the issue of farmers that he talked about, as Zimbabwe we are known as being very good farmers, as a bread basket of Africa meaning that the issue of agriculture should be protected and farmers should be protected. Land reform means that if we fail to support the farmers, we will have regressed. Zimbabwe is known in the SADC region as the bread basket of Africa. So the issue of agriculture; I believe farmers should be fully supported.

Our plea is that our Government should go back and look at what the whites were doing. Mkwasine and Hippo Valley were opened. I think the people from my area are the ones who opened those estates. The white man was given a loan for four years. The fifth year, they were able to pay the first quarter. The sixth year, they would pay the second quarter. The seventh year, they would pay the third quarter and the eighth year, the fourth quarter to clear his loan. That is what we request from our Government that it should support the farmers. Yes, we applaud the land reform programme but they should be supported.

So on the issue of mining legislation and on farming, it is impossible for a miner to go and remove a farmer. If you want to engage in mining and you want to go on land that was given to a farmer, then you have to go and talk to them, and talk in good faith. If a person has a farm and you do not agree on his requirements, there are so many areas where mining can take place. Gold is found where there are mountains.

Where agriculture should take place, let it be agricultural based.

We need to align our legislation and ensure that it protects everyone. We do not want the poor to sideline or disadvantage them because a poor person is also a human being. We do not want a situation whereby the country is owned by the rich. The country and land is ours. This House is ours. Let us sit down and come up with legislation that protects both sides. We do not want anyone who oppresses another. We need to speak with one voice. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.

1. MUKWANGWARIWA: Mr. Speaker, I move that the

debate be adjourned.

1. MUDARIKWA: I second.

Motion put and agreed to.

Debate to resume: Tuesday, 14^th July, 2015.

On the motion of MR. MUKWANGWARIWA, seconded by MS.

MPARIWA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Four o’clock

p.m. until Tuesday, 14^th July, 2015.