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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 12 MARCH 2020 46 34

PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE

Thursday, 12^th March, 2020.

The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.

PRAYERS

(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)

HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise on a point of privilege. Madam Speaker, your Chair made a ruling on the issue of those that do not recognise His Excellency the President, Hon. E. D. Mnangagwa. It is my thinking Madam Speaker, that may you make a ruling today that until such time that we have recognition by the members of the other party of His Excellency the President Cde. E. D. Mnangagwa who is the First Secretary of ZANU PF and the President of this country, if there has not been any formal recognition, I ask that the Committees that are chaired by the opposition have temporary chairpersons - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – by people that recognise His Excellency the President.

Madam Speaker Ma’am, it puts me in an invidious position to attend a Committee that is chaired by somebody who does not recognise my President. As a party, ZANU PF, it is actually very dangerous for us and for me in particular to attend a Committee that is being chaired by somebody who does not recognise my principal. I will give an example, where I come from in the Public Accounts Committee, there is an exofficio Member of Parliament who is the Auditor-General who sits and guides our operations. The Chair of that Committee, naturally we recognise the Auditor-General’s report and by inference, we are recognising somebody who is an appointee of the President but they then fail as the opposition to recognise His Excellency that on its own is quite

‘ultra vires the operations and ethical conduct of Parliament and

Parliamentarians [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

I ask therefore Madam Speaker Ma’am that you make a ruling that until there is recognition of His Excellency by the Chairpersons of the opposition, there be temporary chairpersons put in place for the sole reason of progress. Those chairpersons must be persons coming from the party that recognises the President. I ask that today, here and now, you make a ruling - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -  for us to progress without any impediments so that we continue to conduct our business - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON.

MEMBER: Point of order Madam Speaker.] – People of Chegutu West

Constituency and those of the majority ZANU PF - [HON. MEMBERS:

Inaudible interjections.] – they asked that you make a ruling. - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [HON. MADZIMURE: He should go for a hearing because he stole money from ZINARA. He is a thief.] - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Members

please take your seats. Let me give a ruling first. Please take your seats Hon. Members. Hon. Nduna, I have heard you but I cannot give a ruling on that matter because that matter is under investigation by the Privileges Committee, so I cannot give a ruling on it. Thank you.

HON. MATEWU: My point of privilege rises from the fact that the Coronavirus has been declared a pandemic by WHO. Now, we as a nation and us as an institution and as Members of Parliament, need to take precaution. We ask that this parliament complex when people are coming in whether Members, staff or visitors be given some sanitizers or sanitizer towels to ensure that our safety is of firsthand. I can give an example of Iran where about 37 Members of Parliament have been affected by coronavirus and in other countries like the UK. In fact there have been deaths in a country like Iran. I implore your office Madam Speaker for the Executive to ensure that those countries which pose a high risk to our citizens such as China, Iran and Italy have travel restrictions put in place like what Lesotho has done today, to restrict all travel to restrict all travellers coming in their country from anywhere. I thank you.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Matewu, I hear you. It is true coronavirus is very scary. The authorities are taking some measures regarding that issue.

HON. T. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, on a point of clarity his point was what is Parliament doing? Why can we not just have sanitizers only?

You are the authority who can rule that from tomorrow or next week Parliament will ensure that the necessary measures have been taken.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: As for sanitizers, we will request the administration to provide the sanitizers to each and every Member of Parliament. Thank you.

HON. KASHIRI: Madam Speaker, still on the issue of coronavirus. We as parliamentarians  come from different parts of the country. It is prudent that if it were possible through the Minister of Health, we have a compulsory testing every week here in Parliament so that we know our status since we sit here three days a week. Just testing for Corona Virus, Madam Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Kashiri, I hear you. We will

look into it and give you feedback.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

STATE OF ZIFA

THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND

RECREATION (HON. CONVENTRY): Thank you Madam Speaker. I

will be giving the two statements. The first one was a request from Hon.

Members of Parliament to come and give a Ministerial Statement on the state of ZIFA and then follow up with the state of affairs of the national stadia and where they are.

Madam Speaker, it is no secret that ZIFA for the last few years has been facing different challenges and that has been affecting the development of football, the country and that has also been affecting our national players at regional, continental and international levels. These challenges are ranging from poor administration and governance of the body, as well as development of players. The Sports and Recreation Commission is working closely with ZIFA to resolve these challenges but it is important to point out that SRC and Government can only step in to a certain degree, otherwise we will face a ban from FIFA.

For the African Cup of Nations, if you will allow me Madam Speaker to give you a run down on state of affairs. They were many reports in the media. ZIFA supported by the Sport and Recreation Commission and the Ministry of Sport requested His Excellency to appoint a Committee to mobilise funds. That Committee was chaired by Hon. Minister Kazembe Kazembe. That Committee raised and gave ZIFA US$87 000 and Z$3, 5 million to go towards the Warriors AFCON matches. The support of Government towards the Warriors funding and the support from the AFCON Fundraising Committee, the Warriors did not perform to the best of their ability we were eliminated in the Group stages.

The Confederation of African Football dispersed sporting and sporting grants and these grants have not yet been disclosed by ZIFA to the SRC when request. The Senior Men’s National Team from AFCON Campaign was met by disagreements, disputes and triggered the team’s mistrust in the leadership of ZIFA. The Women’s Senior National Team, the Mighty Warriors have faced similar challenges in the preparation and participation for the qualifiers for the 2020 Olympics as well as the World Cup. The SRC alarmed by the state of affairs requested ZIFA to give a detailed report on how they manage the National Teams’ preparation and participation in the AFCON campaign and the Olympic qualifiers, and to date ZIFA has not submitted any report.

The SRC recommended for the disciplinary of ZIFA in terms of Section 30 of the SRC Act and in turn ZIFA wrote to FIFA to dissolve and set up a Normalisation Committee. FIFA rejected what the SRC was recommending and highlighted that if the SRC went forward with the Normalisation Committee the Government would be tamed as interfering and as the FIFA statutes state, Zimbabwe would then be banned.

ZIFA’s debt and overhanging financial status – ZIFA’S legacy debt is around US$8 million and this definitely affecting the administration and operation of the federation.

Recommendations – The SRC should convene capacity development programmes targeting the ZIFA fraternity. ZIFA should work fully to benefit from the FIFA projects, funding, support infrastructural development, FIFA forward projects and ZIFA should start been more transparent.

If you will allow me Madam Chair, I will give an update on the refurbishment of the football stadia. Once my office had been aware of the ...

HON. CHIKWINYA: On a point of Order Madam Speaker. Sorry

Hon. Minister to disturb you but the ZIFA report which is being tabled before Parliament has information gathered at a time when some Hon. Members were part of that ZIFA and I want your guidance as to whether that report can be discussed whilst they are in here or not.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Chikwinya, I think this

is just a Ministerial Statement which was requested by Hon. Members.  Also, those Members who were members of ZIFA are no longer members of ZIFA.  I do not think there is any harm for them to be in here.  Hon. Minister, please may you go ahead.

THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORT, ARTS AND

RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY):  Thank you Madam Speaker.

Allow me to give an update on upgrading of the refurbishment of the football stadia and the measures that we have taken so far.  As some

Hon. Members may know, the stadia does not fall within my Ministry. When I was notified that CAF has sent ZIFA the preliminary report on the status about stadia which was on the 27^th of February, we decided to put together a Committee which met on the 27^th of February to figure out a way forward and develop a plan of action which is urgently needed to carry out renovations, to be upgraded towards the CAF specifications.

This was to be done on National Sports Stadium, Barbourfields and

Sakubva.

We undertook the inspection for the major stadia with particular emphasis on the three stadia There was engagement with local Government, the Minister of Local Government and Public Works, his team of experts and the different councils.  Council owned stadia are

Barbourfelds and Sakubva.  We then engaged the Zimbabwe Olympic Committee, the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services to obtain different specifications for the Doping Control Office and the different media facilities that CAF require from stadia.

On progress made so far, we want to thank Government for it has availed $23 million towards the National Sports Stadium, $13 million towards Barbourfields and on Sakubva, we are waiting; it is around $3 to 5 million for what is needed to be done for that stadium.

Bulawayo City Council commenced work on upgrades of

Barbourfields on the 2^nd March, 2020 and should be completed by the

16^th and the work started at the National Sports Stadium on the 3^rd March, 2020 and should also be completed by the 16^th.  However, there are two requirements that CAF needs, which are bucket seats and electronic ticketing.  This takes a longer time for procurement and also a longer time to build the back of the house for the electronic ticketing.  It is being worked on.  Those two items have been spoken and explained to CAF on the need for longer terms and they since said that we can start working on everything else while we bring on those two final prospects.

Madam Speaker, today we have two inspectors from FIFA that are here inspecting. They will be at the National Sports Stadium and I believe they will be travelling to Bulawayo.  We also have started the process of hand-over from the stadia falling under the control of Local Government within my Ministry.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, we have seen today that the Health

Minister has advised teams not to be travelling to countries where there are confirmed cases of coronavirus.  We are standing guided by what he has presented.  We have also requested ZIFA to go back and seek guidance from CAF.  From what I have seen in the newspaper today, Algeria is putting in very specific rules and regulations.  So as for the upcoming games in the next month, we are unsure as of right now whether or not those games will happen as scheduled.  Thank you Madam Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Minister,

Hon. Members may now ask points of clarification from the Minister.

HON. PETER MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to

take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Minister for giving us the state of affairs in our football.  It took long because we requested your Chair to make a ruling in October last year, 2019 and in November you had requested the Minister to come the first week of February, 2020 when we opened this Parliament but unfortunately it could not happen, may be because of other reasons which are best known to themselves.

Madam Speaker, there is one component which the Hon. Minister left out, that is the issue of ZIFA being audited by the Auditor General because they receive funds from Government.  There is no way ZIFA can operate in isolation leaving Government out of any football equation.  So when we are talking about FIFA banning us from participating in any football activity because we have asked ZIFA to be transparent, let us be banned as long as we are going to correct what is wrong in our football.

Madam Speaker, this is very embarrassing and the current ZIFA Executive is an embarrassment to this country.  They are putting our country at the wrong map.  They are operating in Mars rather than operating in this country.  Right now, if you look at how ZIFA is operating they are busy banning everybody who dares to ask them to be transparent.  How many members have been banned in this august House?  These are people who are trying to be transparent.  Those people are busy looting funds, they went to Egypt – they got all the support.  Football is a unifier, it knows no boundaries.  When football is being played at the National Sports Stadium everybody goes to watch football.  It is the biggest employer in this country but some people see it as an opportunity to loot whatever little resources they get.

Madam Speaker, when we raised this issue in October last year, CAF had not banned us.  What is going to happen is, we are going to play our football in a foreign land.  This has never happened in the history of this country.  Madam Speaker, it means that we are going to lose a lot of resources.  We are going to lose the much needed foreign currency.  Our hotels are not going to benefit anything but other countries are going to benefit.  So if we say Government should not interfere when people are playing around with other people lives what does that mean to those who irk a living from playing football.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon, can you ask your

question.

HON. PETER MOYO:  I have already asked a question on the issue of the Auditor General which has been answered.  My plea is that Government through the Sports and Recreation Commission must make sure that this ZIFA does not handle our football, otherwise we are going to be in abyss because of the current ZIFA leading football in this country.  I would like to request the Hon. Minister to bite lest this august House becomes Brutum fulmen.  If this august House does not intervene on such an important issue like football, then this august House becomes a circus; it will not work.  Madam Speaker, I request the Hon. Minister to tell us whether what was twitted was true or not, maybe it was a hoax that the stadia are going to be run by the Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation.  If it is true, that is a blessing in disguise.

Madam Speaker, you must also understand that when the

Government is coming in to assist in football, it must correct certain things.  Look at our local authorities, they are handicapped.  Our football pitches are like potato fields.  If you go out there you will find that there are so many foreign players who can assist this country.  They can refurbish our stadia.  I thank you.

HON. MBONDIAH:  Thank you Madam Speaker for awarding

me this opportunity.  I would also like to thank the Hon. Minister for the clarification that she has brought here.  My concern Madam Speaker is that does it have to take a meeting to have a stadium fixed.  How does a stadium become condemned when you know very well that the first thing in a field is to have grass?  They have set down and gave deadlines of four days, six days, 14 days to fix a field, to fix lights, simple things like that; yet ZIFA has been given a budget from the Ministry.  My question to the Minister is, does it have to take a boardroom meeting to have simple things like lights, grass and toilets being fixed in the stadia?

I thank you.

HON. T. MLISWA:  Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  I want to thank the Hon. Member for the two Ministerial Statements which are important.  Madam Speaker, sport is a multibillion dollar industry.  If well run, it will create many jobs, a lot of income for the country, not only that, there is sport tourism as well.  My point of clarity Hon. Minister, is clear about the international organisations which are there.  I do not know if the rules of FIFA allow people to steal and stay in office?  I would like to know if that is a rule FIFA has that if you steal, you can still be in office.  What I know is that most countries have also run sport through their laws.  While we are a member of FIFA, we are not regulated by FIFA in terms of the laws of this country.  FIFA equally respects the laws of this country.  That is also one doctrine which must be understood.  If the Minister wants to be the most popular Minister, if you ban all sports associations right now, you will be the most popular Minister in this country and work on a proper development plan.  Right now, there is no proper development plan that we can talk about.  To me, the question is what development plan ZIFA has in terms of football.  What I am asking is in the first year, we are going to do this, in the second year we are going to do this because all these great nations that achieve results – the Hon. Minister is a good example of a top athlete.  She knows that there was a programme.  She had to do so much at a certain time.  Why in her wisdom does she think that sport can develop without a proper plan?  There is absolutely no proper plan and it is her responsibility.  This is where I seek clarity again.

It is the responsibility of the SRC which is mandated to see how these sports are being run.  The SRC has that responsibility because it deals with all affiliates.  What is the mandate of the SRC in ensuring that these associations are complying?  One of the issues of complying is to produce financial statements.  If you do not produce financial statements Hon. Minister, you know that you are banned by SRC because it is part of the regulations of you being affiliated to them.  When did ZIFA last submit their financial statements to SRC?  If they did not, they are not even supposed to be functioning because these are audited reports which they look at and so forth.  We cannot blame the administrators when there is a law.  We must now look at those who are responsible for enforcing the law, whether they are enforcing the law or not.  I think the regulations are very clear on that. In terms of Section 13 of the SRC...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mliswa, next time you

do not refer to the lady Minister as Mr. Minister.  Next time you say Hon. Minister.

HON. T. MLISWA:  I think it was just a slip of the tongue.  You know that I am very eloquent and articulate it was just a slip of the tongue and I am sorry about that – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – I went to the University in the United Kingdom – [Laughter.] – The issue is in terms of the banning, I am glad that Hon.

Phillip Chiyangwa is here.  The Minister knows that FIFA did allow ZIFA to face whatever action as long as they involved Hon. Chiyangwa who is a member of COSAFA because he would report to them.  Hon. Chiyangwa is well connected at that level more than most African people with FIFA.  We are quite protected in that regard and they gave the mandate that he be part of the team with the SRC to dissolve this.  So this came from FIFA and I would like Hon. Chiyangwa who is here today to talk on this as well.  I hope you can contribute on your appointment by FIFA on how football should be handled here.

Gushungo, I hope nhasi muchatitaurirawo motibetserawo ipapo.

To me, what is the Minister’s position on that because when it went to FIFA, FIFA agreed and said you can do whatever you want as long as one of our members is involved and they seconded Hon. Chiyangwa to be part of the process of cleansing out ZIFA.  Hon. Minister, it is absolutely a shame for this House to allow people who have violated the laws to continue in office.  Our role of oversight does not allow us to do that.  Grants have been given, they have not been accounted for and the issue of submitting yearly statements to SRC has not been done.  What are they still doing in office?  They have realised that the system is weak.  As a result they are just pilfering money every day.  Hon. Minister, you do not have to worry about football because it is a black sport, they will say you are being racist.  Administration is administration whether black, Indian or coloured.  All we want are the rules to be followed.  Be protected by your conscience as a sport person that the good of sport in this country can only happen through good governance of sport and there is no good governance of sport.  I implore you Hon. Minister, what would Zimbabwe lose by being banned by FIFA.  We are always losing everyday anyway.  Our associations have no money to be able to context.  It will give us some breathing space to find money to put programmes in place and for us to look forward to what will happen and so forth.  The only thing that we have done, we have allowed people who are criminals to go into sport and steal money.  It is the same as cricket, rugby and so forth.  The entire sporting structure in this country has been destroyed because of people who are out there because our administrators are weak in terms of enforcing that.   In terms of the stadiums, my clarity with the Minister is that are you now in total control of all the stadiums or it is just the National Sports

Stadium?  Are you in control of Barbour Fields, Rufaro Stadium, the Chitungwiza Acquatic Complex, Luveve Stadium and all the other stadiums?  Are you in control of the Hockey Stadium. Again, I would like to know in terms of that, how far does your mandate go.  Is it because there was this havoc and now it has been given to you and we are now less being reactionary rather than planning.  I have always lobbied that the sports facilities must fall under sports and Public Works must maintain them at the end of the day.  I see the money that you have been given, $23 million for the National Sports Stadium.  I do not know whether it was US dollars or it is part of this money where inflation is eating it and the rate is changing.  Hon. Minister, is the money that you have been given enough to be able to repair these stadium?  You did indicate that there are also other things which are needed by CAF in terms of the ticketing and so forth and you did say that it is not in place.

Why not just take our time and make sure that things are done properly.  With the respect that you have in sport internationally, you can start lobbying from other agencies that can bring in proper money and so

forth.

The other issue in terms of the stadia is what other plans do you have for the stadia? Is it just football or you intend to also have a programme of event management so that you can earn some revenue by renting them out to churches, political parties and so forth?  What plan do you have in terms of ensuring that there is revenue which is being earned?     Lastly, I want to once again ask the question on the sporting policy that this Government has pertaining to soccer in the Country? I thank you.

HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I have a few points.

When you want to see far, you stand on the shoulders of giants.  A prophet is not recognised in his own country.  We have amid us people like Hon. T. Mliswa who has just said a leader in the form and mould of Hon. Chiyangwa, he is a member of the biggest block in the whole continent called COSAFA.  The quicker we recognise that we have such an influential position, a person who is not only in leadership position in

COSAFA, he is also a leader in this country in terms of his constituency.

The man I am talking about is the one that made sure Alfentino is the Chairperson of FIFA...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ask questions Hon. Nduna.

HON. NDUNA: Yes Madam Speaker, I am getting there.  He is also the one credited with ushering in the CAF President, besides being credited by his elevation to being President of COSAFA. It is my fervent hope and clarion call to the Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation that they need to consult and collaborate and coordinate and network with Hon. Chiyangwa in order to get us from the mud that we are currently in.  We should not despise him, we need to swallow our pride and consult him.  He is not where he is by mistake and the people I have spoken about, the President of FIFA and that of CAF are not where they are by mistake but credit should be given to the COSAFA President.

Madam Speaker, the second issue that I want to bring in is the takeover not only of stadia in big towns, there should be takeover of all sporting facilities including stadia in local authorities, an example is Chegutu and Pfupajena stadiums.  This is where we produce the talent that this country is currently endowed with and they then go to bigger cities and towns. So the Hon. Minister should make sure that she has also taken over the stadia in various other low lying cities, areas and municipality areas.

I have given an example of Pfupajena stadium in Chegutu and those practice stadia that are behind Pfupajena stadium.  We have got the likes of Dhliwayo who is now plying his trade at Makwiro who has been produced in Chegutu. I am just giving an example Madam Speaker that let us not ignore those stadia until a time when we have been banned.

The third issue is to enhance revenue generation and revenue collection. There is need to have a tax that is directed to the agents that front for our soccer operative or football players.  There are agencies that represent those soccer players.  They should be taxed for that money they after they sell the players and also represent the players out there. For argument sake, we have got Nakamba who is in London and there are a lot of taxes that can be derived from such sales and from such a movement from domestic to international.  So, the taxes should accrue to the Hon. Minister of Sports because football is a multibillion dollar industry.  We need to get what we can and use what we have from football to enhance our stadium.

The last issue is that I spoke of football stadia, I now talk of swimming pools. They should also be taken over and fall under the purview of the Hon. Minister, Hon. Coventry who herself is credited by an ambiguous amount of medals to her credit of swimming accolades.  I ask that she also takes over the swimming pools because Madam Speaker...

HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: On a point of order Madam

Speaker.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

HON. MOLOKELA-TSIYE: I do not think it is fair for us to be forced to listen to someone giving another Ministerial Statement.  The point is that you ask for clarification or question then you follow up the Ministerial Statement. This is now a boring repeat or a lesser version of the original statement.  He is out of order.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are correct Hon.

Member, Hon. Nduna, please ask your questions.

HON. NDUNA: As I conclude there is need to use our ambiguous amount of mineral wealth that we have in order to enhance the capacity...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, you are not

supposed to be debating please ask questions and sit down.

HON. NDUNA: I am merely concluding.  I am making a proposal that the Hon. Minister of Youth, Sports, Arts and Recreation gets embedded with the Minister of Mines who is here.  Some of that money that we drive from his industry should also be apportioned to her industry so that we can enhance the capacity of our stadia Madam Speaker.  I thank you for giving me this opportunity of getting the voice of Chegutu West Constituency to be heard - [HON. MEMBERS:

Inaudible interjections.] -

HON. T. MLISWA:  Madam Speaker, on a point of order.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon Mliswa please give

others a chance to debate.

HON. T. MLISWA:  It is a point of order which is important – [HON. MADZIMURE:  Inaudible interjections.] -  You are also allowed to make a point of order.  I do not know why you are angry.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Go ahead Hon. Mliswa.  You

are wasting time, please.

HON. T. MLISWA:  My point of order is, Hon. Saruwaka will

recall that the last time the Hon. Speaker was in the Chair I said stadiums and he said I was wrong, it is stadia.  I would actually like to correct that.  In terms of Google, the plural for stadium can be stadiums or stadia. So, you can use stadiums but the Speaker said I cannot use it.  Everybody is using stadia because they were told by the Speaker not to use stadiums – [AN HON. MEMBER:  There is no point order.] – No.  I am trying to help to correct. My point of order is that they do not have to say stadia, they can say stadiums. It is allowed.  I am somebody who likes to correct as well.

HON. O. SIBANDA:  Thank you very much Hon. Speaker

Ma’am.  Also thank you very much Hon. Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation for your presentation.  I think it was very clear.  What I want to say to you Hon. Minister is that it is very easy to remove those who are failing to perform from their offices.  Nothing bars you from doing that.  As I speak, there is a letter which was written by FIFA to ZIFA saying that they can request for an exemption for two years or more whilst they are sorting themselves out because of the legacy debt.

There is no interference Hon. Minister in sport as long as you have got facts to disband ZIFA.  As we speak, you have got the facts of disbanding ZIFA.  They are abusing public funds from FIFA and ZIFA as it is, is an agent of FIFA; it is owned by FIFA.  Therefore, it falls under the purview of the Government.  Government has got a say on anything which ZIFA does. This is why the Government funds ZIFA at any given time.  Where we have got the problem Madam Speaker is that people at ZIFA are not serious about the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe in terms of football.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Sibanda, please ask

your question.

HON. O. SIBANDA:  Madam Speaker, my question is: is the Minister aware that on the issues to do with the stadiums, is she aware that ZIFA was given a notice of the state of stadiums from 13^th November, last year?  CAF wrote a letter to ZIFA and said that they were coming to inspect National Stadium, Babourfields Stadium and Mandava Stadium.  As a follow up, they came on the 1^st December,

2019 and inspected the stadiums.  They communicated to ZIFA on 3^rd December, 2019 and said that Mandava and National Stadium had failed and Babourfields had some few issues to attend to.  ZIFA did not communicate with the owners of the stadium.  CAF wrote a letter again in January, reminding ZIFA that they had not received anything.  In that letter, they said that the first instance those who inspect grounds should do a preliminary check on the stadiums. Is the Minister aware that ZIFA did not send their own grounds people to inspect Babourfields Stadium?  Sometime end of January, CAF wrote another letter and said they have barred Babourfields Stadium also.  Nobody took action Madam Speaker.  Since that day up to March, no action was taken to rectify the problems at Babourfields Stadium.

Is the Minister also aware that ZIFA was not communicating with the local authority and SRC?  Now that the games are close by and it is a national disaster, ZIFA stands up and says it is too late and CAF is removing the games from here.  Madam Speaker, the Minister should interrogate why ZIFA did that.  To prove that Madam Speaker, ZIFA their worry is banning people.  They have banned Hon. Banda for no reason.  They are busy doing all sorts of things.  Their core business is to run football and nothing else.  Hon. Minister, are you aware that Hon. Philip Chiyangwa is the President of COSAFA, a regional body which looks after 14 countries in Africa in terms of football? However, ZIFA shouting at him through the newspapers – [HON. S. BANDA:  Banda must be back tomorrow.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Order Hon. Banda – [HON.

1. BANDA: Handisini Banda wacho.] – [Laughter.] –

HON. O. SIBANDA:  Madam Speaker, is the Minister aware that Hon. Philip Chiyangwa is the President of a big body in Southern Africa called COSAFA, which is composed of 14 countries?  He said that he was going to organise with CAF but the people at ZIFA go out publicly to ridicule Hon. Chiyangwa.  Why?  Do you know Hon. Minister that we have got a person who can solve this for us here in Zimbabwe?

Finally Madam Speaker, is the Hon. Minister aware that people at ZIFA are not respecting SRC and the Sports Portfolio Committee.  They do as they please.  It is not right Madam Speaker.  We need sanity in football.  We need people to do things which they went into office for, that of running football.  I am pleading with the Minister of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation to look into the matter.  If she does not have tools to deal with ZIFA, we are there to assist her.  Thank you very much.

HON. MADZIMURE:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Hon. Minister, I would want some clarification.  Normally the Government follows up on its money.  A number of countries around us invest a lot in their national teams.  As a result, they have got influence in the running of soccer itself.  Are you considering a situation where our national teams carry the dignity of Zimbabwe as they move around?  We have heard that our teams have been stranded and those players that play football in foreign lands, especially Europe, have on several occasions bailed out the national teams.

Secondly Madam Speaker, when ZIFA was informed that there were going to be inspections, why did the Government allow the situation to get to where it is now when it knew very well that ZIFA had no capacity to do so?  It is up to the Government to make sure that the integrity of our national teams is protected.  So, why did the Government not intervene especially when you know that the administration that is running our football has its own problems?  Through the Sports and Recreational Council, the Government could have followed.

My other question of clarification has to do with the National

Sports Stadium.  The National Sports Stadium is run by the Ministry of

Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.  How come the

Ministry of Youth, Sport, Arts and Recreation which knows exactly

what is required of a stadium for it to be a certified stadium that can be used for competitive sporting programs not keep it well maintained.

I am happy to hear that the Ministry of Sport is going to take over but I think the most important thing is that the structure of the stadium is the responsibility of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing. Why is the Ministry of Sport not monitoring the maintenance of stadium because it is the end user of the stadium?

Finally, the local authorities have got their own problems.  They cannot fully maintain stadiums, what is the Ministry going to do from now; going forward to make sure that the stadiums are maintained?

What are they doing to develop our children from grassroots?

Madam Speaker, you cannot expect to have stars when they start competing at the age of 18 years and above.  That is impossible. If you look at the constituencies that we have, some of us are trying to build sports and recreational facilities but the Constituency Development Fund is not even enough for us to do so.   However, the only way we can develop our people is to start from grassroots.  What is the policy that

the Ministry has to make sure that we mould administrators and sports personnel from the grassroots?

HON. MUSHORIWA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to

thank the Hon. Minister for Sports for the presentation.  However, I would want the Hon. Minister to advise this House on how much money has the Ministry been allocated by Treasury for the renovation and for the work at the National Sports Stadium?  If there has been no money, we want to find out.   I have looked into the budget of your Ministry and I am failing to locate where the funds are coming from.  Has the ministry of Finance given a special amount towards your Ministry to do the work?

Secondly, I would also want to find out apart from the National Sports Stadium, we have heard that the other stadiums are all in a bad state.  How much money is going to those stadiums? Added to that, we also want to find out how much money is going to other sporting facilities that have decayed?.  If you look at all the sports infrastructure like swimming pools, basket ball pitches, the aquatic complex in Chitungwiza and the Magamba Hockey Stadium are dilapidated.  We want to find out how much money has been allocated to your Ministry if any.  We do not want to be reactive to problems but we should have a long term strategy in terms of dealing with the issues.

Hon. Minister, I would also want to understand; in terms of accountability to check and understand that all the work that is going to be done is going to be done above board.  There is a forensic report pertaining to the work that was done some years back and it was done under a cloud of corruption.  So, now that your Ministry has been given the responsibility, can you assure this Hon. House that transparency in terms of the utilisation of those resources will be assured at your Ministry?

THE MINISTER OF YOUTH, SPORTS, ARTS AND

RECREATION (HON. COVENTRY): Thank you Madam Speaker.

Allow me to start answering some of the questions.  There were some questions that were asked that will be responded to, together as they were quite similar.  The first issue about auditing ZIFA, as I had said in my report, we had contacted FIFA directly to request for a

Normalisation Commission.  Part of that Normalisation Commission was because they in that commission from FIFA through the efex Commission which sits outside of FIFA as a private entity can then come in and do a full audit of accounts.  When there was money that comes to an association from an international federation, Government or a sub-Government group cannot audit a national federation.

I take note that the Hon Member and other Hon. Members are quite happy for Government to step in and quite happy for us to then be banned as a country.  I would ask that we all remember the time that we stepped in with cricket we were banned and the same people were not happy that we were then banned.  I would also like to remind people to then take note of recognition…

HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order! The Minister cannot say that the Auditor General or Government cannot audit ZIFA.  For as long as there are public funds in any entity, there can be an audit.  So I wanted to correct it to say that the money, if it is coming from

Government, we can follow the money and ZIFA can be audited.

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Madam Speaker.  Allow me to correct Hon. Mliswa.  As I just said, when you have funds coming from an international federation into an account of a national federation, governments are not allowed to request for an audited set of accounts.  Government is allowed to request for an audit on the money that they have given which we have done, which ZIFA has provided us.  I cannot request ZIFA to show me what they do with FIFA money or CAF money, we will get banned.  I cannot inquire as Government to ZIFA to give me an audited set of accounts that shows money from the international federation.  That was my point.

HON. T. MLISWA: What I am saying is this, the SRC has got a very clear mandate that if you are an affiliate of them, you must produce audit on financial statements.  So she is contradicting herself by saying that no one can ask for a financial statement and if you do not produce the financial statements you can be barred from being an affiliate of SRC.  I am I right or wrong Hon. Minister?

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I am going to continue to answer the questions and then at the end and we will then ask Hon. Mliswa if I have answered his questions.  

HON. T. MLISWA: On point of order –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please allow the Minister to finish – [HON. MLISWA: No, this is about us accounting. The point of clarity...] – Please allow the Minister to continue – [HON. T. MLISWA: No, we cannot allow her to continue when there are issues. The SRC in its rules, when you are an affiliate must produce financial statements at the end of the year the same way with Public Finance Management. The ministries must produce quarterly reports. So it is a regulation...] – Hon.

Mliswa, you will have a chance for now she must answer – [HON. MLISWA: No, she must give an answer to that because it is important in terms of clarity. We need to account properly, the SRC you being an affiliate must produce financial statements at the end of the year. It is as simple as that unless she is saying they cannot then we know.] – Hon. Mliswa, we must allow the Hon. Minister to finish responding then we will ask another set of questions. Please take your seat Hon. Mliswa.

HON. CONVENTRY: Allow me to continue because I believe Hon. Mliswa, your point of SRC was actually one of your questions that you asked. You were the third person to ask so I am just going through the order in which I was answering questions and – [HON. MLISWA: If you say so.] – I did say I was going to respond.   

I believe that I answered the first question and I would like to agree with the Hon. Member in terms of soccer and sport being a unifier. This is something that I personally saw when I came back in 2004. So I know the power that sport has. In terms of city councils they are responsible for the maintenance but unfortunately that is not what has been happening. So, our entire city councils are supposed to be putting money back into the stadium. If the stadia are run correctly from the soccer games that are held at those stadiums, if the money from the gate takings is put back into the stadiums we would not have this problem but that money has not been going back into the stadiums. That has been happening over the last plus years, not in the last 18 months.

The Hon. Member who I believe is no longer here in terms of whether a meeting was required. If there was a call for Hon. Members of this esteemed House for there to be transparency, then there is a need for stakeholders to come together that were called by my office because my office and the people that I work with are the technocrats and they needed to explain to the other stakeholders who did not have the background in terms of what is needed, the urgency, how and what was needed to happen so yes, that meeting needed to happen. If she has further questions she can come and I will be happy to explain it further to her.

Coming on to Hon. Mliswa, I cannot have or make any statement on the running of FIFA. That is something that you as a Member can put in writing and send to them directly. I agree that and if anyone is favour as I said before, if we want ZIFA to be banned from international and continental games, that is something that we can do but in terms of coming back and getting back to an affiliated member, there is a long process and it just does not take a few years – [HON. MLISWA: Inaudible interjection.] – Yes, but cricket was a different situation. FIFA is not the same. As far as I am concerned and I will always consider our athletes who deserve better than what is happening and they do not deserve for us administrators not to do our job correctly to be banned and not play the game that they love.

In terms of national strategy, there is a National Sports Strategy that is taking place right now. It is being put together by the SRC. They have held different meetings with all stakeholders on the ground. We have invited South Africa and Botswana, and have conversations with other international organisation that will be coming to help us work through this so that everybody knows what the policy and structure is, and what is guiding sport in this country.

In terms of the Hon. Member mentioning Hon. Chiyangwa’s appointment from FIFA, it is the first time I am hearing this. I have continued with FIFA and CAF, and as far as I am concerned and as far as the regulations are COSAFA do not really fall within CAF or FIFA regulations. They do not report to but sit as a regional body not as an international or continental body. So they actually do not have much power within FIFA or CAF.

As far as the statement that FIFA appointed the former ZIFA President, as I said that is not what FIFA told me directly. If there is evidence of this, I ask you to please bring it forward. SRC is also reevaluating the Act and yes, every national federation is required to give a set of order to the accounts. As mentioned at the beginning, that order to the accounts does not have to pertain to money coming from the international federations or private organisation. To date, we have received certain order to the accounts.

One of the members was asking if Government had requested ZIFA to show the money trail. We have requested and I actually stopped giving money ZIFA when they did not pay our female players for the games that they had played. So the money to ZIFA was stopped. In terms of the money that I mentioned, it is our local currency that is being given and is enough for the works that are needed but it is not enough for the upkeep and maintenance that will be required in the coming years.

Plans for the stadia and the policy towards soccer – that is all still to be determined. We are in the initial stages in terms of plans for the stadium and I will share that with this Hon. august House as soon as I have those plans but my hope is that it will be in collaboration with the international federations because we have had initial conversations with them in terms of the development of soccer for the country.

In terms of the question revolving again COSAFA, the former

President stepping in and I have just explained that it is not affiliated to

CAF or FIFA with instructions. COSAFA do not report to CAF or FIFA. ZIFA are the only ones that report to CAF and FIFA. Inasmuch as it was appreciated that the COSAFA President tried to talk to CAF, it actually made my job much harder because there was no respect given to the Deputy Secretary General of CAF as he is the President of Inspections within CAF and he was disrespected by the COSAFA President for not going to him and giving the respect needed, of which I had to then step

in.

In terms of the tax and sport tax, that is an on-going conversation that we are having with the Ministry of Finance and I can come back to this august House with future plans.

On giving the timeline, again as mentioned in my statement, I was not given and ZIFA did not come to the relevant Ministry such as myself in November and December, 2019.  It has come out that ZIFA did not communicate with the correct authorities or the correct people.  I will make sure that something is done because of this. As I said, it has added extra frustration, extra delays and it has added CAF to ban our stadia because of no communication from ZIFA back to CAF or to even give recognition to CAF’s letter of 1^st December.

On taking over the stadia, yes right now the stadia that falls under Local Government is the National Sports Stadium, Chitungwiza and the two hockey stadia.  The rest of the stadia in the country fall under city council.  We can now have conversations with the different city councils, but again, it comes back to management.  I believe that there is a desire within our city council and from what we have seen with Bulawayo and Harare City Council over the last few days, there is a desire for people on the ground to learn how to manage these facilities correctly.  It will be a programme that we will be approaching FIFA to help with so that the right management can start occurring amongst all our stadiums.

There was an Hon. Member who mentioned grassroots and this will also add on to Hon. Mliswa’s response.  What we are doing this year as a Ministry is trying to revamp and re-energised 40 recreational spaces.  Part of these spaces, there will be development for sport, coaches and talent identification programmes that will be happening.  There will be the involvement of the national federations but this will be led by the Ministry.

On release of money in terms of the warriors not being paid, again this was something.  When our players were not being looked after the money from Ministry stopped.  There was no money going to ZIFA when the players had not been paid by ZIFA.  An Hon. Member asked how much money was allocated from Treasury to my Ministry for the National Sports Stadium.  Again, I just remind the Hon. Member that the stadium falls under Local Government.  Unfortunately, this has been part of the longstanding problem over the last few years as there has never been an allocation from Treasury given to National Stadium in order to obtain and maintain name.

Going forward, this national programme has been given special project; special money from His Excellency and the Minister of Finance and that is how we are moving along.  We have the Cabinet agreement of last week of moving these national sports stadia to my Ministry. There was also recognition that there is need for specific funding allocated in future and I can assure you that I will have that conversation with the Minister of Finance.

The last point came down to accountability.  I can assure you and I hope that in future you will be asking all these questions and continuing to ask these questions to me and my Ministry. You can be assured that we will be transparent.  As soon as the stadia fall under me and are handed over to me officially, we will then look and call for ideas from yourselves and the public on how best to manage them.  The idea on moving forward is, if we want to get recognition and for sport to be a part of this billion dollar project as it is, it must be done professionally and privately.  Those are the areas which we will be looking at in the future.  Madam Speaker, I believe I have answered all the questions.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you.  Hon. Members,

you can now seek further clarifications.

HON. CHIKWINYA:  Madam Speaker, my point of clarification to the Hon. Minister is that she has said the information regarding grants as requested from ZIFA is not being submitted to the SRC.  May the

Hon. Minister enlighten us on what the rules say and what is the remedy.  ZIFA reports as requested, what is the recourse because we cannot allow a situation whereby your institution does not comply with your own

rules.

Hon. Minister may you enlighten us as well, you mentioned that ZIFA receives funds from FIFA. Do these funds include infrastructural development?  I think it is a yes or no answer. If it is a yes, what form of infrastructure?  CAF presented reports as way back as October, 2019 and Hon. Minister in your capacity as the Minister responsible for sports, what action did you take to save the disaster under which we are in now.  CAF issued reports on our stadia to the extent that FC Platinum was barred from using Mandava Stadium and were advised to use

Barbourfields, and this is on public record. This is because the state of Mandava did not comply with the regulations or the conditions under which it could host an international match.  What action did you take as the Minister responsible for sport to alleviate the situation so that it does not get to the disastrous state at which it is now?

Hon. Minister, two days ago you twitted and I quote, ‘good news, it has been agreed that the ownership and operation of National Sports Stadium in Zimbabwe will be transferred to Ministry of Youth, Sport,

Arts and Recreation.  We have the experience and passion to use this opportunity for Zimbabwe to become a sporting power house’.  The

Ministry of Youth receives funds from the fiscus, the Ministry of Local Government was receiving funds from the fiscus.  What is it that you think you have that is going to make you realise getting the sport to becoming a power house?  You stated here Hon. Minister that the Sports and Recreation Commission was in charge of Magamba Stadium, Chitungwiza Aquatic Complex and now National Sports Stadium if I heard you correctly. Do you mean that the state of Chitungwiza Aquatic Complex as it is right now is the experience you are celebrating?  We want you to answer that.

Finally Madam Speaker, I want you to engage us as

Parliamentarians that, have you considered the option of triple Ps with regards to the running and management of our stadia?  Thank you.

HON. T. MLISWA:  Madam Speaker, I asked a question - does

FIFA allow people to steal and the Minister did not answer that.  Madam Speaker, we also asked about the issue of our rules. It seems the Hon.

Minister is excited about international affiliation and not respecting the laws of this country.  We do not really eat football.  I think this country is more interested in the bread and butter issues than football right now.  Is her loyalty to the international organisation or to the laws of this country?  The SRC is an Act of Parliament.  It has certain things that it must do.  How does the SRC continue to entertain administrators who have violated the Act?  How honestly can we say we have administrators who are in office yet they failed to produce audited reports as per SRC Act and are still in office?  Madam Speaker, the Minister must take this opportunity to get a by inn from this House.  I was involved in sport.  I was the director of rugby at national level.  I was the director of cricket at national level.  I was the national fitness coach at national level.  I was the Davis Cup fitness coach for the black families at national level, I can go on.  No one who has a background in sport is running sport today.  All the sports people Minister, who have the passion for sport, who are educated to do sport are no longer interested because of the bad administration.  My question is, what is the Minister doing to ensure that real sport people administer sport?  As long as there is no proper administration in sport, there will be no one who will put money in

sport.  The people coming in to sport are stealing money and it seems the Minister seems to be protecting them while they have gone against an Act of Parliament.  I think it is important when we speak like this.  I have good relations with Minister, I talk to her.  We are trying to help her.  I am not interested in being a Minister of Sport.  I would have liked it when Mugabe was in power then.  That is when I wanted to be the Minister of Sport, other than that, with the way the economy is, you will not even get money to do anything.  I wish her luck because I do not know where she will get the money to run sport but we are passionate and we must be talking as stakeholders.  Rugby, I was there and Cricket I was also there.  We try and speak as sports people.  What is she doing to engage former sports people to come and discuss sport?  She cannot do it alone and she cannot support these thieves.

Minister you are supporting ZIFA thieves.  Why are you supporting ZIFA thieves?  You are the Minister. You should be cleaning up sport and you are supporting thieves.  Why are you supporting thieves who have violated the Act?  There is no confidence in sport.  No company will put money into sport for as long as you are protecting these thieves.  Action must be taken like Hon. Chikwinya said.  Why are they in office when they have gone against the Act and so forth?  It is my clarion call to the Minister, she has an opportunity to try and rebrand sport.  In rebranding sport, it means Hon. Minister, if the people who you are working with were part of the problem and you are still working with them, you have not dealt with the problem.  Get those who were part of the problem out and bring in your own people.  Let us support you.  That is where the problem is.  The bureaucracy is too much, we do not have technocrats there.  We would like to support you in that initiative.  A hunter hunts with his or her own dogs.  Which dogs have you brought on which you are hunting with or else you are dealing with the old bureaucrats who only want allowances yet they are not offering anything and sport is suffering at the end of the day.  Thank you.

*HON. CHIPATO: Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to give my support and also air my concern over the people who are fraudulently acquiring resources that should be for the people of Zimbabwe.  My question is Minister, what do you intend to do with people like Machakana who took US$747 thousand and deposited it in his account?  Minister, this is pure fraud because as we look at it as women, sport is what is assisting us in this nation.  For people to take resources earmarked for sport and use it for their own family means is not right.  I thank you.

HON. MURAI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Thank you very much Hon. Minister for your mouthful Ministerial Statement.  My question is, now that all our stadiums have been condemned and we are now forced to go and play soccer in nations which are infested with the  coronavirus, what measures have you put in place that our Warriors will not be inffected with the coronavirus and they will not get coronavirus whatever the case might be.

Hon. Members having stood up.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  We want to give the Minister the chance to respond. You are the last one Hon. Member.

HON. P. MOYO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I want to thank the Hon. Minister.  She tried her level best under the circumstances.  Let me tell you that Madam Speaker, our local authorities right now as I speak have no funds to refurbish our stadia.  They are handicapped financially.  I would advise the Hon. Minister to try and bring in the corporate world to assist our local authorities to refurbish all our stadia.  During the All Africa Games, CAF refurbished most of our stadia in this country and were left at an international level where everybody would want to come and play in this country.  Then the current ZIFA opened their accounts.  When funds come in, they go and put in private people’s accounts at the expense of the ZIFA account where everybody will account for that money.  There was a village which they were supposed to build and they were given a lot of money.  They converted that money to their personal use.

Secondly, when ZIFA is failing to run our soccer, our Premier Soccer League is running our soccer very professionally and they have got sponsors.  Why do sponsors go to the Premier League?  It is because there is accountability and professionalism.  At ZIFA, there is no professionalism.  They are purely thieves.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Ask your question Hon.

Member.

HON. P. MOYO:  My question Madam Speaker is what are you going to do about the money which was stolen by the ZIFA people?  There was the US$700 thousand that the Hon. Member was talking about deposited in someone’s account.  Which corporate world Madam Speaker can come and assist an institution like ZIFA?  If you go to Zambia, Kalusha Bwala as a former player refurbished all the stadia and he was raising the nation’s flag.  If you go to Didier Drogba, he even refused a post at Chelsea to go and refurbish all stadia in Ivory Coast.

We have got our own Benjamin Mwaruwari, Peter Ndlovu et cetera.  The Hon. Minister should just call for an indaba with these former players.  They will tell her how football is run.  These people who are currently in ZIFA – actually ZACC is sleeping on duty.  They should have arrested these thieves.  They have destroyed this country, they are destroying our football.  You will remember football, currently, is the world’s most beautiful game and also is the most creative institution.  If you look VAR right now, all the technology is coming in other countries yet Zimbabwe is left in isolation.  Madam Speaker, we cannot allow the current ZIFA to continue running our football.  The Hon. Minister should dismiss the entire ZIFA.  If there is a ban which is coming, let us accept that ban and correct our house.  Thank you Madam Speaker.

HON. P. D. SIBANDA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My first question to the Hon. Minister that require clarity is to find out from her whether she was surprised by the decision of CAF to ban our team from using local stadia?  If she was surprised, then may be one would want to know whether as a Ministry you are really hands on with what is suppose to take place within the field of sport or not?  The second one is how does she feel having been appointed to superintend over sport  and then now instead of the country earning revenue out of the sport through a team that will be visiting the country, the country is now going to lose revenue as it goes to play in a foreign country?

If I got you well that you intend to take into your possession as Government, a number of stadia, we have a history as a country.  I will give you an example, in Bulawayo we have the power station which was taken away from the local authority and no compensation was paid to the local people that build up that infrastructure.  Are you going to respect property rights since currently those stadia belong to local authorities?  If you are going to take possession of them, will we witness another fast track reform this time of stadia?

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Again I will

answer the same way to Hon. T. Mliswa’s question, I will not and cannot respond for FIFA, he should ask them. In terms of...

HON. T. MLISWA:  On a point of order Madam President.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

HON. T. MLISWA: You are not following the debate and I

cannot be quiet.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, please give

the Minister chance to respond.

HON. T. MLISWA: The Minister cannot use FIFA when she

feels like it, I asked her the reason why ZIFA must be disbanded?  It is because they have been stealing money, Machana transferred US$740 000 his account and he is still in office.  So, I am saying...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That question was asked.

HON. T. MLISWA: She is saying FIFA does not allow her to interfere.  So, I want to know because she cannot say to me arrogantly that I must ask FIFA when she says we cannot interfere in FIFA affairs.  So, what if the money is being stolen, there must be some tact and not arrogance of saying no.  She wants to refer to FIFA when she see the need to refer to FIFA but I asked a question, does FIFA allow people to steal because US$755 000 was transferred and we are disbanding ZIFA because of that.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, please take

your seat.

HON. T. MLISWA: I can see you now want me to go, you want to me chucked out.  I do not mind, I can always go home because I came here alone. I am independent so I have no one to cry to, so I am not really worried.  These are critical issues that I am bringing...

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please allow her to answer.

HON. T. MLISWA: She must not be arrogant in answering to say I must ask FIFA when she answers for FIFA if she feels the need to.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. T. Mliswa, you are out

of order, please take your seat.

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I appreciate that the Hon. Member has passion for sport and I appreciate that he has a deep understanding of the different organisations. As I said already, I will not answer on behalf of FIFA and anytime I have referred to FIFA is when I have been in direct contact with FIFA.  As he pointed out on the SRC, the SRC Act is outdated and does not allow us to protect our athletes, sport or protect the development of sport for today’s world.  SRC has been asked to start figuring out a way of how to update the Sport and Recreational Act to ensure that we can protect our sports and our athletes.

In terms of the point that the Hon. Member has raised about audited reports, SRC has called for the quarterly meeting on Saturday.

HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker – [HON.

MEMBERS: Haaaa.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

Please take your seat.

HON. T. MLISWA: What I wanted to correct the Minister is that

it is not the SRC that brings the Act; it is the Minister who brings the Act to Parliament, not SRC.  That is the procedure.

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Speaker. If you allow me, it

is not the Minister that sits and writes the Act, it is up to the Minister to request the SRC board to come up with the new SRC Act that will then be taken to the Ministry, to Cabinet and after going to Cabinet, it will then come to this esteemed House.

HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?

HON. P. D. SIBANDA: With all due respect to the Hon. Minister, I find it quite disturbing that the Hon. Minister knows that the Act is now archaic, she agrees but she says she will request.  We thought that she is the person that is in charge.  She does not have to request the SRC to have the Act amended.  She has to order the SRC and superintend the whole process not for her to say I will request.  If she is requesting and those people say we do not want, what happens?  So, who is in charge?

Is it her or the SRC who is in charge of sport – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –

THE HON. DEPUTY MINISTER: Thank you for that Hon.

Minister please continue.

HON. COVENTRY: Thank you Hon. Member.  Allow me to

reply to both.  So I think swimming is harder than this. Not many people would be able to do so.  I have only one female who has achieved what I have achieved.  Allow me to add to the Hon. Members that there is a thing that I have learned in my many years as sport diplomat and a way in which to work together. We all know who is in charge and when I have given the request to the SRC board to repeal the Act, they will be working on it.  So they are working on it. If nobody understands that I am happy to clarify further.  As I was saying the SRC has a quarterly report from the National Federation on Saturday.  They have been instructed that the National Federation does not hand deliver an audited set of reports, they will be deemed non-compliant and will receive no further funding from Government.  I hope that appeases Members of this esteemed House if they are listening.

Hon. Speaker, in terms of responding to the Hon. Member in terms of the US$740 000 that was put into an individual account, I would ask for that Member to bring me any proof from the Portfolio Committee and I would also want to update the House that although the President of ZIFA has changed, the staff is still the same, nobody has changed.  They are the ones that manage the day to day business – [HON. T. MLISWA:  Say you will look into it. Do not be arrogant.  Ministers do not come to Parliament and we feel sorry for them.  When they come here they want to show arrogance.  We are not here to be shown arrogance, whether white or black.  You must understand that when we are here we do oversight.  You tell us that you will investigate the issue and I will come and report to this House.

    THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Hon. Mliswa you are out of

order!  Please take your seat – [HON. T. MLISWA:  “Hawauye kuParliament awa,” they are only coming now with arrogance.  We must be respected.  We want to be respected Madam Speaker.  “Hatidi kushorwa pano.”  Respect us Madam Speaker.  We do not want arrogance.  She cannot be arrogant all the time – [HON. MEMBERS:

Inaudible interjections.] – Order Hon. Members!  Order!  Hon.

Members, please take your seats.  Please allow the Minister to finish!

HON. COVENTRY:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Allow me to

thank the Hon. Members of this esteemed House for their passion because it allows me to do my job better, so I say thank you – [HON.

MEMBERS:  Hear, hear.] – I would also like to say as any Hon.

Member thought that I was being disrespectful, I apologize for that – [HON. MEMBERS:  Inaudible interjections.] – Madam Speaker, my belief is that every single person in this House is here to ensure that we drive this country forward. So, I appreciate the passion.

If you will allow me to get back to answering the questions, maybe to just note that when I requested the proof, if I only have proof then I can do the investigation.  We know from my statement right at the beginning that there has been a pledge within ZIFA and we need to deal with that.  We will ensure that we will get to the bottom of that.  As I

said on Saturday at the National Sports Stadium, national federations have been called for the quarterly meetings.  ZIFA has not produced audited accounts.  If they have not produced audited accounts by Saturday, they will be non-compliant and they will no longer be able to receive any financial assistance from Government until that is given along with any other national associations.

In terms of the question that an Hon. Member asked with regards to the Coronavirus and the travel of our national teams, I am standing guided by our Health Ministry.  Today he made a statement that he does not advise any national teams to travel to countries where there have been confirmed cases.  We obviously support that statement because we want to protect our players, but we have advised ZIFA to go back to

CAF to seek their guidance and FIFA’s guidance because we do not want there to be any forms of fines that are placed on Zimbabwe if we do not go and attend a game.  We all know that there was the disappointing announcement of Zimbabwe potentially having to play Algeria in South Africa but there have been confirmed cases of Coronavirus.  So we are looking into the matter because it is not a safe environment for our players.

I would also like to thank the Hon. Member who brought up the issue of the PSL.  The PSL is running very well and we can see that and we can see that they have been part of the conversations around the stadia that are owned by City Council; there needs to be further communication in terms of the City Council engaging the PSL. That is where there can be movement forward in terms of refurbishment of our stadiums.  However, those conversations can be led by my Ministry but the City Council do not fall within my mandate so it is not something that I can dictate, but again it is something where Hon. Members can help encourage City Councils to engage with us to create a platform for them.

In terms of the Hon. Members question, if I was surprised by the CAF decision - I rely on my stakeholders in terms of the communication of honesty, this has not been happening and I have been let down numerous times in this regard.  Was I surprised by the CAF decision? I was surprised by the CAF decision when I was given all of the information that was in middle of February.  I was surprised because the CAF deciding and making that decision could have been averted if ZIFA had responded to CAF’s initial letter from December, on time - they never did.  They still to this day, have not responded to that initial communication from CAF.  So there are many things that need to be fixed, but I think we can all agree that things are not working well within

ZIFA and that is only part of the problem.

In terms of the property rights, my response to that is again city councils do not fall under my mandate so the stadium, within city councils are not what are being transferred over to me.  Property rights come with responsibilities, so the city councils as I just said are responsible for the maintenance of our stadiums but there can be better platforms with private partnership with the PSL teams.   If the city councils want help with creating that platform, my office is more than happy to help give them that opportunity to figure out a way forward to maintain our stadiums.  I thank you.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ASPIRATIONS TOWARDS ACHIEVING USD 12 BILLION BY 2023

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING

DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO): Thank you Madam Speaker.

I am here to give a statement in response to a question which was raised by Hon. Ndebele on the aspirations towards the achievements of the $12 billion and also the possible implications of EPO’s with respect to that achievement.

Madam Speaker, the 2019 mineral revenue was $3, 2 billion up from $2, 9 million in 2018.  The $12 billion milestones for 2023 were set on detailed projections and targets by minerals.   The Hon. Members asked for an update and projections and I hereby respond, giving that update and projections by mineral.

Gold output increased in 2018 to 33 tonnes compared to twenty six and half tonnes in 2017.  There was however, a decrease to 27, 6 tonnes in 2019.  A number of interventions are being put in place to ensure there is an increase in gold deliveries not only 2020 but to achieve the 100 tonnes target by 2023.   A detailed statement on gold will be released before the end of April.

Diamond sector performance – diamonds are expected to contribute $1 billion towards the $12 billion target for the mining industry by 2023.   A $165 million was realised from the diamond sector in 2019 compared to 98 million in 2018.  The following are interventions being put in place to achieve an increase in 2020 and achievement of the $1 billion by 2023.

1. ZCDC is earmarked to sustainably increase production;
2. In line with the diamond policy Anjin has started production;
3. ARUSA which is the largest producer of diamonds in the world in already on the ground evaluating a number of sites to commence production; and
4. Government is working on improvements in the marketing framework.

Madam Speaker, P.G.M’s – the platinum industry is expected to contribute $3 billion as part of its contribution towards the $12 billion mining industry by 2023.  This contribution is centered on expansion and new production as follows:-

1. The three producers being Unkie, Zimplats and Mimosa are all undertaking expansion and optimisation projects.
2. Great Dyke investments have started opening a mining area and it is scheduled to produce its first concentrate in 2021.
3. Carol Resources are ready to commence project work on the 1^st portal having undertaken extensive evaluation work.
4. Bravura is on the ground undertaking evaluation work.
5. Discussions with Todal are advanced for them to get into project phase; actually they had a board meeting sometime this week – that is on the PGM sector.

Madam Speaker, I now turn to the chrome sector.   The chrome, nickel and steel sector is earmarked to achieve $1 billion by 2023.  This achievement will largely be through increased falcon production   from 369 000 tonnes of ferro chrome in 2018 to 1, 1 million tonnes in 2023.  Various expansion projects are underway

by ZIMASCO, ZIMALLOYS, JINAN and AFROSHEEN and a

few other players.

Since launch of the $12 billion milestones, three new furnaces have been completed, operational and ready for official commissioning.  Government has now released additional mining ground to an additional ore to be generated to feed the smelters.

The next sector is on coal.  Coal and hydro carbons is targeted to contribute $I billion towards the $12 billion target by 2023. This achievement is underpinned by two main initiatives:-

2023. Increase in coke production, from 300 000 tones in 2018 to 2,1 million tonnes in 2023.
2024. Increase in thermal coal production for electricity generation.

Massive success has been achieved in this sub-sector as follows;

1. A new coke oven battery was commissioned late last year;
2. Three new mines will be opened this year; and
3. Three new coke ovens are under construction.

The next sub-sector is lithium. The milestone for  lithium is $500 million by 2023. Bikita Minerals is in steady production whilst project work at Kamativi and Arcadia lithium is going quite well.

A US$1, 5 million target was set for other minerals. This will be achieved through a number of initiatives on various minerals but specifically, there will be a launch in the next two months of an initiative in granite and gemstones.

I now turn to EPOs Madam Speaker. The EPO system has been characterised by non-processing of EPOs for a number of years which has reduced the ground available for pegging. A new mining affairs board was appointed and has been directed to review and process all

EPO applications with the status as follows;

1. There are 12 EPOs which are due for renewable and which will be subject to the holders satisfying the original conditions of grant.
2. There are 24 applications which have been processed right now Madam Speaker, and the indications are that there will be significant ground for them to be released as a number of them have not been approved.

• Thirty applications were gazetted for objections on 11^th October,

2019 and now being finalised

1. There are 30 applications which have already been rejected by the mining affairs body and the respective ground will be freed by mid of April. There are three new EPO applications which have been received since 1^st January, 2020 but which have not been processed.

In all, the objective is that by end of June, the Mining Affairs Board  will be up-to-date with the screening and processing of applications. Significant ground will have been processed. Government recognises that the future of the mining industry is based on discovery of new minerals, more so since the country is under explored and more so using modern techniques.

Government also recognises that delays over the years in the processing of EPO applications have resulted in reduced areas being available for pegging. It is in this realisation that Government undertakes to clear all its EPO applications by June, 2020. I thank you

HON. NDEBELE: Let me thank the Minister for such a lucid statement. It has been a while since we got an all encompassing and nonevasive statement from a Minister. It is quite refreshing. I am happy that the Minister is  - is going to be releasing a lot of land. My question to the Minister is this land that has been under EPOs going to be released to our young men and women in the localities of Maphisa, Matopo,

Gwanda, Insiza and Shurugwi as you come up towards the Great Dyke? Time is of the essence here Hon. Minister; our young people are butchering each other out there using machetes for want of mining land.

In my respective regard, I think June is rather too far. Is there no way the Minister can together with this House, work out modalities to tinker with the law in the meantime to allow our people to be able to peg in these EPOs?

Is the Minister also aware that the same people that are holding land under EPOs for speculative purposes are fleecing our poor youths out there? If the Minister visits the mining areas, he will be told of sad stories wherein our people are charged 60% of whatever they get particularly gold underground. They have to pay speculators 60% of whatever they earn and they end up with absolutely nothing to channel towards tooling and retooling. They use elementary tools and they work so hard but for so little Hon. Minister.

I heard you say there are a number of applications that are before the Mining Board. For radical purposes Hon. Minister, we have land before that our small scale miners are even delivering more gold than the big players. Is it not possible for the Mining Affairs Board to hold forever, in other words to bar considering the applications that are before it? I have heard of your beautiful projections around the growth of gold but yesterday we learnt from the Minister of Finance that he is removing or taking away incentives from the gold miners. Is this not going to affect your projections Hon. Minister?

Last but not least Madam Speaker, we have land for the return of the Chinese. How did the Minister arrive at getting the Chinese back on to the diamond fields? Does this include the Russians that we removed during the last dispensation? You mentioned big players in the international field such as Arusha, but how are these mining tenders floated Hon. Minister? We only read about them in the newspapers. Is it possible for us in the spirit of empowerment to reach out to our own Zimbabwe and diaspora and urge them to organise themselves into mining entities that can enjoy our gas in Lupane and oil in Muzarabani.

Finally Hon. Minister, why are companies like GDI not complying with indigenisation laws? I thank you Hon. Minister.

HON. MUDARIKWA: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Minister for releasing ground to the indigenous people but I also wanted to check with the Minister, if he can inform the House on progress on the cadastral system. If there are any challenges, what can we do as Parliament to assist him to make sure that the cadastral system progresses?

HON. MUTSEYAMI: My request for clarification to the attention of the Hon. Minister is simple and straightforward.  Hon. Minister, there are allegations to the effect that this challenge we are having countrywide with regard to the machete gangs is more or less coordinated with connections of senior people in the Ministry of Mines. At most, officers at provincial levels who direct these machete gangs to be involved in mining and they work as a syndicate on a certain allocation given to them and then the allocation remains with the syndicates.  What is your response to those kinds of allegations?  What is it that you are doing to remedy such a crisis?

The other thing Hon. Minister is - what is your comment with regards to the challenge of the machete gangs whereby we have most of these mines like Ashanti Mine, for a record Ashanti Mine was taken from one businessman who has been involved in the mining at Ashanti and that same mine was given to another person who happens to be very influential in the Government systems, what does that mean?

Last but not least, it is with regard to the situation in Mazowe.  As we speak today, there are allegations that these machete gangs who are so much into mining, they are more like artisanal miners. Most of their gold is not taken to Fidelity but it is being sold to foreign countries, mostly South Africa.  The argument to that effect is that it has to do with the pricing and the level of payment which is being done by RBZ which is not very conducive to those miners to make more money.  What is your comment?

HON. MUSIKAVANHU:  Thank you Madam Speaker. I would

like to firstly acknowledge the Minister for a well articulated presentation on what is happening in the mining sector which together with agriculture and tourism are the pillars of our economic turnaround.  Given the long gestation period of most mineral and mining activities, is it possible for you through your Ministry to give us a regular proactive feedback programme so that the generality of the population has a good feel of what is happening in your Ministry because I believe firmly that with your presentation, definitely Vision 2030 is on the line.  Thank you.

*HON. PRISCILLA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Since

the Hon. Minister has given his Ministerial Statement, we are happy about what he has said and we have appreciated.  My question is that, if we want to apply for mining licences as women, we encounter difficulties.  We come from communal lands and travel long distances to go and register.  Would it not be better for you to allow licencing to be done at district level and that you open offices in those districts so that we can easily access them since we do not have sufficient resources to travel far away from the provinces?

We want you to clarify on the issue of how licencing is being done because a lot of women are failing to get licenced, they are encountering difficulties.  May you explain on that issue?  I thank you.

HON. CHIKWINYA:  Thank you Madam Speaker. My points of

clarification are as follows; firstly Hon. Minister, are you able to furnish Parliament with the list of the current applicants of the EPOs?  Secondly, huge projects have been embarked on by the Government in Muzarabani, Lupane with Lupane gas and of late with the Russians,   that is the Roval, I did not quite hear you clearly where we saw you on television officially opening that platinum mine.

In line with Section 315 (2) (c) of our Constitution which states that an Act of Parliament must provide for the negotiation and performance of the following contracts and (c) is specific on concession of minerals and other rights.  What is your take with regards to the coming Mines and Minerals Bills for it to capture that principle so that at least Parliament is involved in the negotiation of concessions of minerals and other lines to meet with the provisions of Section 315 (2) (c).  We want to hear your take since the Mines and Minerals Bill is under drafting by your Ministry.

The other issue is that under chrome, you speak of smelters being built but as a Member of Parliament from Mbizo in Kwekwe, I see  that one of the biggest players Potnex are currently closed and there are about a month now because they have been having problems.  Why are they closed?  Are there any prospects that they are going to open and by when?

         The other issue under gold is that it is a fact and it has been agreed to by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development that we are having gold leakages because of the retention regime where the black market is paying 100% of gold sold to the black market and Government is paying 45 to 50%.  Is it Government intention to continue with the retention regime of 45 to 55%?  What impact does it have on the gold retentions to Government since we are seeing that in 2018 when we were currently under the US dollar regime, our gold production was at 33 tonnes and in 2019, especially soon after the introduction of the retention scheme, our gold productions fell.  What is the Ministry going to do then?

Lastly Hon. Speaker, is the Minister comfortable? He speaks of 30 rejections and I presume that these rejections, he says that the areas that have been rejected are going to be opened up by June.  Are you comfortable in furnishing Parliament with the areas that are going to be liberalised for the purposes of access by the generality of Zimbabwe which have currently been held under EPOs?

HON. MADHUKU:  Thank you very much Madam Speaker.

Firstly, is it possible for the Ministry to come up with guidelines or laws setting benchmarks for corporate social responsibility because we noticed that so many mining companies; some are giving a lot and others are not doing anything to the locals.  So if you can come up with some benchmarks.

Secondly, I also plead with the Minister, if it is possible – because you have heard cases whereby locals are displaced by mining conglomerates but you find that there is sort of reneging on what they will have promised to offer to those who have been displaced.  Is it possible that these companies first of all meet their obligations before people are displaced?

HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker.  The first issue is about the chrome claims.  What concessions if any, has Government has recouped from ZIMASCO in order that it can create space to the locals for extraction of chrome and the amount of claims that it has also recouped from ZimPlats for the enhancement of platinum extraction and the amount of concessions that Government has taken over for the extraction of coal for Hwange Colliery in order to capacitate their production in terms of power production?

Madam Speaker, having heard the Statement from the Minister of Finance yesterday, I ask that he clarifies exactly like Hon. Chikwinya has requested, the amount of incentive that is now going to be given taking it over from the middleman who is the buyer to the producer; to see if it is in sync with his assertion that he is going to ramp up production, to remove incentive from the middleman who is the buyer to the primary producer.  Also the issue of the current operation that is going on Chikorokoza Chapera Operation, where there is police to remove artisanal miners from every place which they are not licenced to mine at.  How is that going to impact on the annual production that is spoken about from 20, 19, 27, 30 tonnes, 32 tonnes in the last year?  How is the Chikorokoza Chapera going to impact on the gross annual production of gold?  Thank you Madam President.

HON. NYONI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  My clarification is on the asbestos issue.  I did not hear the Minister including asbestos. Perhaps it is included on other minerals which are expected to contribute about US$1.5 million by 2023.  I wanted to find out that we know that Turnall is still using asbestos fibre as a raw material and most of it is at the moment being imported from Brazil.  Most of the time we are talking about import substitution.  This is one of the minerals which are used in manufacturing by Turnall.  Deposits are readily available in Masvingo, Mashava and other areas.

My second issue of clarity that I am requesting is on the issue of exploration of gas and oil particularly in the Muzarabani area.  I am sure last year there was a lot of Press coverage on the oil aspect and gas that was being explored by an Austrian company.  I think this is also of national importance because the import bill on fuel and other oil products is high.  Thank you.

*HON. MLAMBO:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I heard the issue about diamonds.  I come from Manicaland and you have not told us what Marange Diamond is producing and giving us as a country.

From the time it was said to have been closed, is anything coming from

Marange Diamond?  Also do you have plans to construct a road from

Mutare to Nyanyadzi using the proceeds that you are getting from Mutare?  I thank you.

*HON. MADZIVA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  What is

Government policy as regards people who come to prospect in other people’s fields without getting consent and those that are putting traps?

Our livestock is getting caught in those traps.  I thank you.

*HON. NYAMUDEZA:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  I wanted to

find out about the billions that the Minister has mentioned that will be raised by 2023.  The $1 billion in gold, $3 billion in diamond and the other billion he has mentioned.  How much revenue is being realised from those minerals currently?  The figures you have quoted, are they in RTGS or US dollar denomination?

My second question Madam Speaker is about platinum.  When are we going to have a platinum processing plant in Zimbabwe because our platinum is being processed outside Zimbabwe?  Thank you.

*HON. TOGAREPI:  Thank you Madam Speaker.  Minister, I heard you saying there is a bigger plan to enable this country to prosper from the minerals that we have.  There are issues that are being said in the newspapers that when we mine minerals such as platinum, it also has some base minerals that are not declared such as gold, silver and palladium.  Where are these minerals declared? How are we getting this money and where is this money going to or we just think of platinum only when the people that are into platinum mining are doing it for the benefit of getting money out of the base metals.   I thank you.

HON. TSUNGA:  Thank you very much Madam speaker.  The Hon.

Minister has spoken about the opening up of new mines, well and good. What he has not addressed is the closure of existing mines. You make new friends but you must keep the old ones. It does not appear like we are keeping the old ones. So, my question relates to mines that have ceased to operate and that the Minister has paid lip service to.  Hon. Minister, we have quite a few dysfunctional mines with specific reference to where I come from Mutasa South, there is Red Wing Mine under Metalion Gold that has ceased to operate.  Workers have been made redundant and nobody seemed to care.  The compounds there are now dysfunctional and unserviced and it is a real cause for concern.

Hon. Minister, what we see happening now at those mines for example is that there is some kind of allocation of sub- claims if I may call them that and these claims are being given people who are coming from outside the area and there is no consideration for giving the claims to the workers who have been made redundant so that they can also mine and make a living. It does not look like there is any care for the workers who have been made redundant in terms of allocating the claims or having them take over the mines that have ceased to operate.  My question is, is there any consideration for a right of first refusal of the claims or takeover of the mines by workers who have been made redundant by the closure through the closure of these mines?

THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING

DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHITANDO): Thank you very much

Madam Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Members for very detailed questions which I will go through. The first question was from Hon. Ndebele and the first question was on EPOs, the land being released and he also made reference that June is too far.  Just to further clarify, I indicated that by June. Already, like I indicated in my statement, there are some EPOs which have been rejected and which I said that the land will be freed up by mid – April. Progressively as the mining affairs board processes all these EPOs, the intention is that all the EPOs we have in the system will be processed by June but we are not waiting for June. That is being done progressively as we go on.

         There is a question on the fleecing of poor people who are charged 60% of whatever they earn. Madam Speaker, we have a situation where we have people who own mining titles. People who own mining titles; what some have resorted to is when we started talking of the ‘use it or lose it principle’, they have resorted to tributing out some of the land of the title they have so that when we then write to them and say you are not utilising the land they will say no, we are utilising it because they then make reference to people who have been given the tributes.

In some cases, whilst we are aware that some of them, the arrangements are not fair to the people who are given the tributes; the Mines and Minerals Act is very specific. It specifies a tribute arrangement which in the absence of that, any other tribute arrangement should be approved by the Mining Affairs Board but however, he has a point Hon. Ndebele and it is a point which has come to the attention of the Ministry and it is something which is under discussion to see how we can react to that.  It is a very valid point where a number of people who own mining title to circumvent the ‘use it or lose principle’now go and give tributes and those tributes are not freed.  So Hon. Ndebele, it is a very valid point.

The other point which was raised by Hon Ndebele is the incentives from gold miners and how this will affect the achievement of the target.  I will not be able to eloquently follow through the paper which was delivered by my colleague. The whole essence of the paper and the policy is that if we look at the revenue stream as before the new policy and we look at the revenue stream after the new policy; they intended that there is no change in the revenue stream, hence this statement, if I am not wrong, he meant to say with time, the gold incentives will be taken away by ensuring that the overall revenue stream to the miners is not affected.

There is another question which was also made by Hon. Ndebele on the return to the Chinese, does this include the Russians and he made reference to the reaching out of Zimbabweans to participate in the diamond sector.  Madam Speaker, Cabinet came up with a diamond policy which regulates the operation of the diamond industry.  In terms of that policy, there are four companies which were given permission to operate in the diamond sector; the first being ZCDC, second is Murowa Diamonds, third is Alrosa and fourth being Anjin.  It was further stated in terms of the diamond policy that all other players can come and operate in the diamond sector working together with ZCDC, alternatively they can go and work together with the other three diamond

entities.

The last comment which was made by Hon. Ndebele was that GDI

are not complying with the indegenisation laws.  I think we differ a bit in the sense that what happened is there was initial change in indegenisation laws which left out diamonds and platinum. Subsequent to that, there were further changes, so there I think we differ a bit.

The next question was from Hon. Mudarikwa.  He made a very important point on the cadastral system. Government realising the importance of the cadastral system has also rood in the Ministry of Higher and Tertiary Education, some of the universities, their information technology experts, to assist the ministry to fast track the cadastral system.  The whole idea is that by next year we should have the cadastral system operating.

There was a question by Hon. Mutseyami? The first comment was clarification on allegations to the effect that the machete gangs are coordinated with senior people or officers at provincial level who operates as syndicates.  I must say Hon. Member, it is the first time I am hearing of that, I think if that information is available, it should certainly be made to law enforcement agencies. I am not aware of that.  The second question was the comment on the change of ownership of Ashant from one person to another.  I presume you refer to Freda Rebeca.  One of the things Hon Madam Speaker in terms of our existing laws which need to be reviewed is that where you have a mining entity or when there is a change in the ownership of a mining entity, there is no need for Government approval.  It is investor to investor so Government is not involved.  If anyone who owns company x,y,z makes a sale, it is investor to investor.  The question may be whether that should be revised or changed – but that is the law as it stands.

The next question was from Hon. Musikavanhu on the long gestation period.  I think you made a very important recommendation to say should we give regular feedback. Madam Speaker, I am more than happy to say every second month to come and give feedback to this august House on the $12 billion.

HON. T. MLISWA:  On a point of order.  I want to really commend the way the Minister tackles issues. He answers professionally and not arrogantly and I wish other Ministers to learn from him.  To me, it is amazing. He is thorough - even the questions which one is asking, he has them to point. I hope other Ministers can just learn from that because that is very important. He is able to say if I have to do it, I must investigate.  Those are the Ministers we want, though Hon. Chitando at times you do not come to Parliament.

THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER:  Thank you Hon. Mliswa.

Hon. Minister, you can proceed.

HON. CHITANDO:  Thank you very much Hon. Mliswa for the comment.  I think to answer to the Hon. Member, we can come up with a routine to give regular updates to this august House.  There was a question raised by Hon. P. Moyo.  It was the issue of decentralizing Ministry offices and the issue that most women are failing.  Decentralisation is actually happening.  This year we are opening an office in Hwange, Zvishavane and Gokwe. Right now as we speak, the process is under way, the positions have been approved and the recruitment is taking place.  We will then roll out to other centres, but it is a very valid point.

The second question relates to the issue of women empowerment. There are two initiatives Madam Speaker.  The first initiative is on the part of Government.  The second initiative is on the women leadership in the mining industry.  We have the Zimbabwe Miners Federation.  The

Zimbabwe Miners Federation is a federation of many different associations.  One of the associations which is part of the federation is women in mining.

It is our wish as Government to see closer working relationship doing Zimbabwe Women in Mining and the Zimbabwe Miners Federation.  One of the issues which we have raised Madam Speaker is that every other Monday, the Ministry in the afternoon is ready and has officers ready to meet the Zimbabwe Miners Federation and the

Chamber of Mines.  If there are any issues, it is a question of saying this Monday we are coming and we are ready to meet and see how we can make women empowerment in mining industry easier.

Madam Speaker, there were questions by Hon. Chikwinya.  You

asked that we furnish the list of applicants.  I would give a counter suggestion. If you allow us to finish processing the applications, within the next three weeks, we will have what has been approved and what has been rejected.  At the moment, we can give you applications who are applicants but are being notified of not being approved and it may not be that fair and accurate.

The second question which was raised by Hon. Chikwinya, he refers to projects in Muzarabani and Section 315 of the Constitution.  I must admit my ignorance.  I really do not quite know the contents of Section 315, but it is something which he can go and discuss with lawyers in the Ministry and I can come and enlighten the House. I would not want to claim what I do not know.  The next question is that chrome smelters Portnex are closed and there are two questions.  Why are they closed?  Will they open and by when?  Madam Speaker, of all the minerals we have, the biggest challenge we have is with chrome, because the price fluctuates quite a lot.  All minerals prices fluctuate on a daily basis but chrome goes to extremes.  One time it is US90 cents per pound and the next time like at the moment, in some cases prices have gone down to US55 cents per pound.  With chrome, you then find that some operators are viable in March when the price is US90 cents.  The price falls to US60 cents, they are not viable and they shut down.  With the fluctuation in the price of chrome, then you find that there is a lot of stop start operations in the chrome business.

The next point raised by Hon. Chikwinya is on gold leakages, which, according to his question is because of retention and he says is it Government intention to continue with retention.  Madam Speaker, I would not comment on retention issues, but what I said in my statement is that we are coming with enablers to increase gold production for 2020 and achieve the 100 tonne target.  That is a policy discussion already which I cannot indicate at this stage what is contained in it.

Hon. Madhuku said is it possible on guidelines setting benchmarks for CSR.  Some are giving and some are not giving. It is a pertinent point which I think we need to reflect as Government.  His other point was there are locals who are displaced by mining conglomerates who renege on what they would have promised.  Madam Speaker, that would be illegal and steps should be taken. If there are any such cases, they should be brought to the Ministry.  What happens is before any operator is allowed to resume mining operation, you submit an EIA, in that EIA you indicate how many families are going to be displaced, how they are going to be relocated and what is going to be their fate.  If anyone puts in the EIA that they are going to do a,b,c,d and they do not do it, it is illegal. If there are any such cases they should be brought to the Ministry of Mines or other relevant authorities like EMA and action has to be taken. It is clearly an illegal issue.

There is a question which was raised by Hon. Nduna on chrome and platinum concessions.  I did not quite understand the question but I can speak on that question.  They were ZIMASCO ceded claims.  The claims were issued out in 2016 – 2017 and the Zimbabwe Alloy ceded claims have been issued out to smelters in accordance to their production plans.  There is the question on the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. He asks whether it is in sync with the assertain that it will ramp up production.  I think it is more or less the same answer Madam Speaker which I have given to Hon. Chikwinya.  The platinum and the coal, to my knowledge there is no coal concession which was given back to Government.  On the platinum, there are coal concessions which we issued out; one to Carol Resources and the other one to Bravura but on coal there is no concession which was given back to Government.

Madam Speaker the ‘use it, or lose it’ principle applies to all minerals, including coal. If there are any coal concessions which are going to be given back to Government, there will be in terms of the ‘use it or lose it’ principle.  Moreso, in terms of coal, coal concessions are governed by Part 19 of the Mines and Minerals Act.  There are specific deliverables on the basis of which those special grants are given, and if not applied to, they will be repossessed.

The next question was from Hon. Nyoni on clarification on asbestos whether it is included.  It is definitely included in the $1, 5 billion.  There was a further comment made by Hon. Nyoni about Turnal importing fibre from Brazil.  I must say the information which Hon. Nyoni has does not quite tally with mine, because the information I have is that as of January this year, all the fibre used by Turnal is all produced locally.   The information I have - that was in January, was that there was now surplus for export.  I would need to verify those facts and get back to Hon. Nyoni but from my knowledge and from what I learnt that was as of January, that Turnal was now getting all its raw materials locally.

The other point which was made by Hon. Nyoni related to the

Muzarabani project status and that it is a project of national importance.  Yes, it is a project of national importance and that project is going ahead.  At the moment, I could inform the House that as we speak now, there are negotiations of a production sharing agreement between Invictus and Government. An inter-governmental team has been set up which is already in negotiations with Invictus on a production sharing agreement.  Generally, oil world wide works on production sharing and at the moment the Government is negotiating on production sharing agreements.  About two meetings have been held so far to discuss the production sharing agreements.

The other question was on the diamonds and the CSR. I think the

Hon. Members’ question probably will be covered by what I said earlier on but you may have to re-look on the CSR on how we can approach

that.

The other question was asked by Hon. Madziva on mining without the authority of the land owner.  Madam Speaker, no miner is allowed to go and mine without the authority of the land owner.  A case like that causes tension so it is important that the proper procedures of the Mines and Minerals Act are followed.

Hon. Nyamudeza asked how much the revenues are at the moment and whether they are in USD or not. He also made a question on the platinum processing plant.  The projections like I indicated in my statement was $2,9 billion in 2018, $3,2 billion in 2019 and slowly ramping  up to $2 billion. That ramping up is not an event, it is a process, like I indicated some of the smelters are being commissioned, some of the coke works are being commissioned.  So that ramp up will happen slowly in USD until we get the $12 billion.

The platinum processing plant - the Platinum Producers Association which is an association covering all the platinum mines have come up with firm proposals on the establishment of a base metal refinery and a precious metal refinery.  I could safely say by 2027, Zimbabwe will have base and precious metal refinery.

One of the incidents I can probably just explain is that in terms of the base and precious metal refinery, the whole idea and suggestions on the Platinum Producers Association is to have the base metal refinery would be earning around 2024/25 followed by a precious metal refinery.

Hon. Togarepi asked on platinum that are there other minerals which are mined.  The platinum group metals have got eight minerals which are the first four precious minerals which are platinum, palladium, gold, rhodium and then the base metals, the copper and so forth. Now, all the minerals are paid for.  What happens is that before any platinum concentrate goes out of the country, three samples are taken: one sample is taken and assayed here to determine how much is sent out. The second sample is kept by an umpire. When the material gets for processing at the refinery, they take a sample again. If the sample does not tally with what would have been taken here, then it will not be processed.  So there is a procedure to follow before export and on the receipt there. The invoice does not say platinum - it says platinum, palladium, copper, cobalt: mineral by mineral.  So all the minerals are paid for.

The last question was asked by Hon. Tsunga who makes mention of new mines but there is no talk of what is happening to old mines.  He also refers to a sad case of Redwing Mine.  Hon. Tsunga makes reference to the allocation of sub-claims at Redwing Mine.  Mines like these and those in a similar category are the typical example which

Government has moved and is moving to apply the ‘use it or lose it’ principle.  Without being very specific, that will be dealt with in terms of the provisions of the law.

In terms of the sub claims being done   from Redwing Mine, I must accept that I am not aware of it but my Ministry will look into it.  I thank you.

HON. CHIKWINYA: Understandably, the questions were quite many but the Minister left out my request for him to publish the list of the released EPO’s, the 30 which have been disallowed.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is worth commending that

the Minister tried to answer most of the questions and responding to each and every member.  I think that is worth commending, thank you very much Hon. Minister.   

HON. A. NDEBELE:  Hon. Minister, I had asked a question on

how you float tenders for oil, for instance the Lupane gas.  I think that was also left out.  There is also the question of asbestos on SMM Hon.

Minister.  I just want to check yet again the ownership of SMM mines.

In the 2018 Budget Statement, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development listed SMM mines under ZMDC assets.  If you may apprise this House on the process of how a company or a mining entity under reconstruction comes out of administration.  I thank you.

*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker.

Although I had several questions, I will try to come up with one useful one so that we have progress.  Hon. Minister, for 2020 you are targeting a gold production figure of 100 tons.  Are you going to achieve that target because the majority of the gold producers were artisanal small miners.  They did not have licences. We had asked that they be allowed to use concessions belonging to either whites or blacks but they are no longer in operation because the mines are disused.  Where are we going to raise this gold from?  Even the ones that we were given an incentive of $10 to $12 in the form of support for Fidelity gold buyers so that they would have a lot of gold and bring it into this system, buyers  were buying the gold from small scale artisanal miners.  They are no longer allowed to be found in possession of gold.  If they are to be found in possession of gold they are going to be jailed.  I do not believe that you are going to reach your target.  That is the question that I wanted to pose.

*HON. PETER MOYO:  Thank you Madam Chair.  There are

mines that closed such as Shabani/Mashava mine.  We heard that the people who were living in those mines were now being ordered to leave.  Where are they supposed to go? I think there is need to see how they are going to be resettled because that is how they get their living.  There is also the issue of the $15 billion that was very topical during the time of President Mugabe.  I am aware that you were not a Minister, but have you carried out investigations to find out where the $15 billion went to?

There are Chinese who are digging all over and are not covering the excavations that they are making.  They also do not respect our rights.  They are excavating the graves of our grandfathers and they do not respect the spirits that bring rains.

I know at one time you were at Mimosa and you constructed a very good ground in Shabanie.  That was a very good thing.  What are you doing to assist with the monies that you have?  Can you not come up with two grounds that you can give to the country because our grounds need to be looked into?

HON. CHITANDO: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.  The first question which I had overlooked was from Hon. Chikwinya on publishing EPOs which would have been rejected.  There is absolutely no problem with that.  I will put a proviso that will look at what the procedures are in the Act.  If the procedures allow that they be published we will definitely do that.

The question by Hon. Ndebele was on the floating of tenders for oil and gas.  The provisions of the Mines and Minerals Act refer to oil and gas as an energy mineral.  In terms of that provision anyone who wants to apply for an oil and gas concession, there is no provision for a tender system but a provision for making an application in terms of the Act.  I confuse them between Part 19 and 20 but in terms of that Act which governs energy mineral, that Act specifies that you go to the Geological Department.  If the area is clear you make your application which goes to the Mining Affairs Board and then there is a process that is outlined.  So, there is no provision for tender in terms of the existing Mines and Minerals Act.  There is some debate internally as to whether that should be changed or not.

Then the question by Hon. Ndebele was on the ownership of SMM.  I can confirm that SMM is under the stable of ZMDC.  He also wanted to know the provisions of reconstruction of a company like SMM coming out of reconstruction.  I must admit that one of the discussions we have started having with the administrator of SMM is to have a road map of SMM coming out of reconstruction.  So I can confirm that there are discussions or thinking along those lines.

The other question was from Hon. Matambanadzo on the 100 tons target and the effects on artisanal miners.  The projected 100 tons will be from two sources, a mix of large scale mining and artisanal mining.  In terms of the large scale mining, at the moment the biggest mine which we have in the country produces just above two tons.  In terms of our 2023 projections, we will have at least three mines which will be producing above four tons.  We will also have a number of mines producing above two tons because the moment the number of mines we will have producing above two tons, I think they will probably be about two or so.  However, in terms of 2023, with the rump-up which is happening in terms of large scale mining we will have a number of mines producing above two tons.  We will also have at least three mines above four tons. So we have an increase in terms of the large scale miners. At the same time, Government is working on a number of initiatives to ensure that there is continued increase or flow of gold from artisanal mining through the roll out of gold centres. At the moment, there are five gold centres which will be rolled out by June and there will be another 15 gold centres to be rolled out by the end of the year.

The whole essence of the gold centres is that they will go in areas where they will help promote the flow of ores from artisanal mining, who will also go through a normal hammer mill process to process the free gold but also through a CIP process to extract the gold ignites metallurgical process. So you find that the small scale miners will actually get more revenue once all those gold centres are processed.

There is a question from Hon. Moyo on the Shabani and Shabani Mine Houses. Hon. Moyo, it is a very pertinent question that you mentioned. I can tell you that in January, myself and a colleague Minister held meetings with worker representatives of Shabani Mine and their lawyers. We came up with a framework which is being implemented to ensure that the interests of the former Shabani Mine workers are taken into account.  So far, I have not had any reports in terms of deviation from the framework which we are abdicated upon.

Madam Speaker, there is a question of the $15 billion which Hon.

Moyo says where was it. It is a pertinent question but it is an issue which was moved to the Auditor General’s Department. So it is now in another department Madam Speaker. There is also an issue on Chinese operators and on observing the environment. The way we look at it from the Ministry is, we do not look at whether the investor is from which country but we would want to see compliance with the law.

The Ministry of Mines and the Ministry of Environment have over the last six weeks been liaising on a framework to ensure zero tolerance to non-compliance with the environment and we have a position which is being taken to Government and which the Minister of Environment will certainly be announcing in due course. So that is being taken care of and it is a genuine concern. The last question on the ground, I think it is covered on my comment on CSR. I thank you Madam Speaker.

THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Members for

the points of clarification which you raised which they were quite insightful. I am sure we will be quite on track. However Hon. Members, in future may we kindly stick to the ministerial statement? I understand today the reason why we were speaking is because we were checking on the performance of the $12 billion. That is why we had to ask questions which were not in line with the ministerial statement. In future, it is good for us to be able to stick to questions in line with the ministerial statement that will be given. However, this brings to the end of the ministerial statement on exclusive prospecting orders and also the performance of the $12 billion revenue in line with the mining industry.

Thank you.

On the motion of HON. TOGAREPI, seconded by HON. K.

PARADZA, the House adjourned at Twenty Minutes to Six o’clock p.m.

until Tuesday, 17^th March, 2020.