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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 21 DECEMBER 2016 43-24
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 21st December, 2016
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. SPEAKER
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have to inform the House that a post-budget seminar will be held for Members of the National Assembly on Monday the 16th of January, 2017. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, it is 16th January, 2017 at Sango Conference Centre, Cresta Lodge in Harare. The seminar is starting from 0830 hours. All Hon. Members are urged to attend.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
HON. HOLDER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon.
Dr. Dokora. Could he please explain to this House the policy which he has put in place regarding enrolment of students from grade seven to form one, the online e-registration. Apparently, there are a lot of problems where children are failing to get positions. If he could clarify that to us so that we could really understand. We are having problems in the rural areas.
THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you Mr. Speaker
and I thank the Hon. Member for raising the question… THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! A question has been asked
and I think it is a question of general interest, can you listen very carefully please.
HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I thank the Hon. Member for raising that question, seeking clarification on the online e-registration. Mr. Speaker, you will recall that I came to the House and issued a ministerial statement which followed an earlier statement we had made in the public domain. In that Ministerial Statement which we delivered on the floor of the House –
[HON. MLISWA and HON. CHIBAYA: Inaudible interjections.]- THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa and Hon. Chibaya
HON. DR. DOKORA: We did explain the progressive
developments that had taken place in education especially in relation to the fact that we were moving away from a manual system of examination registration; even at the Grade 7 level. We are on record as having indicated that when we started to say Grade 6 learners can go on the examination candidate register of ZIMSEC by paying US$1 per term as contribution towards the examination fees at that level, it meant they were immediately available to go on the eregister which we have succeeded in creating 3 years ago.
Secondly, we developed a module, which carries the kind of information which I shared with the House again when I last spoke on this floor, which enables us to know on a week by week basis as to the performance of the system. We call this the EMIS database, (Educational Management and Information System). We also have developed a database on the teacher component of our system, the Teacher Development Information System (TDIS). So, these three modules speak to each other to provide us with current information on how the system is performing. The step that we have now taken is to say there are two ways you proceed into Form 1 or indeed into Form 5. The manual system which is where a young person or family walks into a school and says I live within the catchment area within the zone and they are able to go on to that enrolment register of that school.
This does not preclude any child within that zone from being enrolled because that is their nearest school and they are entitled in terms of the provisions in the Constitution and elsewhere to be provided with basic education in that locality. We then did say that we have quantified the number of places that are available for boarding learners. This is the number that I shared with the House at the time, which is, 24 000 places. Now, you must then look at 24 000 places and say how many of our people want their children to be in boarding? Quite clearly they are much more than 24 000 and the Grade 7 stream that is going into Form 1 was 329 549 learners, which means less than 7% of the Grade 7 pupils would be accommodated in boarding school.
Now, what are the pressures that school heads confront when they try to fit the volume of candidates who wish to be in boarding and how can we use our ICT to mediate in that process? This is why we then instituted the e-registration for Form 1. Therefore, you would understand from what I have just said that it is e-registration for those who are interested in going into boarding but only if you live away from the school that you are interested in. Otherwise you walk into your local school and express your interest either in the boarding facility or day school facility.
How has the system performed, there was a glitch at the beginning. That is a given, because we put the system live on Friday the 9th of December evening and we put out the advert on Saturday and Sunday. Then there was a glitch on Monday that followed. That has since been rectified. From any location and information centre and we had a beautiful launch of an information centre in Chikato in Masvingo recently and there are several others in different districts where you can walk in and do this. You can also access the application on a tablet and cell phone at the touch of a few keys on your phone.
How has the system behaved to date? This is how it has behaved. So far 63% of those that have accessed boarding places have gone through online. There are still some vacancies and we are issuing a press release and I can just highlight some of the schools that still have vacancies. The pressure was greatest in school like
Goromonzi, Rusununguko, Anderson in the Midlands and so on. At Goromonzi a total of 1085 students applied to get in there and they only have 105 places and so you have these kinds of huge numbers, at St. Faith for instance, we have over 850 candidates and all they have is 120 places and so on.
So, each school then set up an Admissions Committee so that they could go through the list that has expressed interest in the particular school. They would take into account, if it is a mission school, matters to do with the responsible authority requests and so on and then the performance scores of the young learners who wish to go into that school. So 63% have been allocated spaces and then about 3 000 or so are still pending. In other words, there are still vacancies for about 3 000. I have asked my colleagues at the Ministry to provide me with the actual details and I might just be able to give that before the end of Question Time here.
The schools that still have openings are the schools that you see when you go online and these are, in Manicaland for instances; St.
Killian’s, Regina Coeli, Makumbe High, St. Patricks, Biriiri,
Nyakatsapa, Chikore, Gedion Mhlanga. In Mashonaland Central;
Mavhuradonha High, Chinduduma 2, St. Phillips, Amai Mugabe
High, Mary Mount Mission High, Nyamatikiti High, Mushumbi
Government High and then of course let me look at Matebeleland North; Marist Brothers, Inyathi, Tsholotsho High, Binga Government
High, St. James High, David Livingstone High; in Midlands; Chaplin, Pakame, Nashville, Bulawayo itself, Milton, Townsend, Northly Eastview et cetera.
Some of the schools in Bulawayo received mere four or five prospective candidates so there are places there. I thank you, Hon.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: My point of order is that he was going to
advertise all this so, there was no point for him going through the entire list. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You do not interrupt an answer; you can then follow up with supplementary questions as you comment. I thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary question is regarding to the Electronic Ministerial Application Platform which is being used by the Ministry. In terms of the ownership of the software, we have heard reports of issues being raised by Purple Design Technology Company regarding the ownership. We would want to know from the Minister if we are using a legal software which they have designed as a Ministry or it has been pirated? Thank you.
HON. DR. DOKORA: The moment you say, you have been
hearing these matters and that these matters are in the courts, then we allow the courts to make their determinations there. Thank you.
HON. D. SIBANDA: Is it in the courts?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Yes, the matter is in the courts.
*HON. NYAMUPINGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. We want
to thank the Minister for this e-selection. I want to thank this system because of corruption. The school that has been cited by the
Minister, like Goromonzi, our children from Goromonzi could not get access to that school. But what I want to ask the Minister is, those who could not get places and could not register on time, how are they going to get places and those who do not have access on line, is there a system in place that children who are far away in remote areas can also be registered on line?
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): What I want to say is that
if a child’s name is registered on line, it is now available for the committee to select that child despite the status of their parents. What will only be there is for the parent to be able to pay the boarding fees.
Those who have challenges in getting on line, we have an example of cluster centres. We have 1 313 cluster centres. All those are connected to the mainstream which connects to the Ministry, which means that each and every school is in a cluster. It can leave its homestead and go on a cluster so that it can be connected to a cluster. The other route is that from a cluster, they can be given the list of applicants, then they work with a printed copy of applicants in choosing the children that they want. The third plan is that children go to a school and they show interest in that school but that is what we did not want. We wanted to phase that out because it is expensive for parents to move from school to school looking for places because once they do that, it means by the time they get places they would have wasted a lot of money in travelling. So, those children who are disadvantaged have their places, the few places that are there which they can get.
*HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Hon. Minister. My
question is, you bring such good things, but do you take time to ask parents who are the major players because we have seen that even when it is the issue of the National School’s Pledge, you did not give them time and this time, parents are crying because they are the owners of these things, but you do not consult them so that they are enlightened on these issues – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, order! It is for the Chair to determine the relevance of the question and not anyone else from the floor.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: I want to enlighten him on the works that the Government is engaged in. When we started the curriculum reform, I came to this House and presented the curriculum reform and I understand he was there. The Hansard is my witness. It is recorded in the Hansard. When they say the National School’s Pledge in the curriculum reform, it is there. If he really wanted to be engaged in this, when we went out to conduct an outreach programme on this issue, we went to all the places in this country. There are about 1 000 000 people who gave their suggestions on the curriculum review and now, we are at an advanced stage because we cannot go back.
Now, what I am saying is that in January, we are starting a new syllabus. What I am challenged with is that I am looking at teachers who are competent in ICT and can take sport disciplines, mathematics and science. That is my challenge right now. Thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister. What is Government policy on children in boarding schools? All boarding schools want four units. So, I do not know what is going to happen to those who cannot attain the four units. Also the issue of boarding schools - we have very few boarding schools but we have so many primary schools. I do not know, are you looking into that? Do you have any plans that all our children should not end up as cattle herders? I do not know what the Government says about four units.
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I want to thank you Mr.
Speaker for the question…
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, you represent the people. You must understand Government policy no matter which political party because it is Government policy which you are obligated to explain to the people. That is why you are here. So, I want you, Hon. Members to listen carefully and interrogate the Minister thereafter if need be.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker and I want to thank the Hon. Member who wants to know the Government’s policy
on children’s education. Firstly, when I came into this House, I said that we have percentage pass rates which we are alluding to and I said that the girls did much better than the boys in the last examinations. I also alluded to the fact that those we say were able to attain credits; it does not mean they are the only ones who go for Form One but all of them. I said that Grade Seven is like a litmus test paper so that we can measure intelligence of the students in terms of numerical, languages and general knowledge. However, we want all pupils to proceed to Form One.
Twenty-four pupils are the ones who can acquire boarding places but 305 000 are day scholars. So, all the students are proceeding to Form One. This is the largest volume of children getting into Form One because it is a measure of success on our policy that there is no child who is not allowed to proceed to Form One even if parents are complaining about school fees. We want these children to continue. Many of them have survived and that is why we have these figures. At the same time, I also said there are about 4500 students who were married or impregnated. We will meet them through non-formal education policy. Thank you.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Minister for the answer that you have given. In the constituencies that we come from, there are children who have 15 units and some who have 28 units who cannot get places into secondary schools. It is not only one school but many schools. So, if they cannot get access, what should we do as parents? Should we come to you so that you give us letters urging schools to take these children? Right now children are at home because they have more units and are not getting access to Form One places. This is because they are not competent enough and cannot get four units. *THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order. I think the Minister has articulated very well on that one – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Muderedzwa, order!
*HON. M. S. MUCHENJE: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education, Hon. Dr. Dokora. When Form One students are being registered, there is a challenge that parents are being urged to pay for school fees and uniforms. Those who have passed are the ones who get places. Some of the children who have passed cannot get places because they do not have money. Schools are now selling uniforms.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Let me
enlighten the House that as we sit down as a family, that our child now has to go for boarding, it is not an easy thing. This is because the child is now leaving the control of the parent and he/she is going to be a boarder under the control of the school. So, what schools look at is that all the children are in boarding and should be more or less the same so that their status would not differentiate them.
Therefore, if a child is at boarding and does not have a uniform, he/she will be stigmatized as they will not be the same as other children. It is a plea to you Hon. Members that you should understand that if a child is going to a boarding school, there are some implications. This means we have to pay the levy fees and money for school uniforms because we do not want them to be different from other children. In education we would say you have affected the concentration of the child.
*HON. M. S. MUCHENJE: My supplementary question is
that, parents are looking for places and schools are demanding money for uniforms. At the banks, there is no cash so parents have to transfer school fees. Many people have not been paid yet. What we want to know is, can we go and tell parents that it is Government policy that if you are looking for a boarding place for your child you should have money ready before Christmas. Is this a new policy?
*HON. DR. DOKORA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. There is no
new policy that has been introduced that children should have their fees and uniforms paid for. All schools that offer boarding places have their own requirements. So for me to stand here and say they should let the children not to pay for the uniforms, what I would have done is just to stigmatise your child. Thank you.
+HON. P. D. SIBANDA: Has it become the Ministry’s policy
to introduce new and far-reaching measures into the education sector without having widely consulted the public?
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): I want to thank the Acting President who interpreted what the Hon. Member has said. I believe that with what we have been working on and the things that we have been moving with are things that are very important and we know that that is the way forward in the area of education. I think we have gone a long way, when we talked even with the Committee, giving us reports, that is where we get these policies. We get good facts from there and that will help us in developing our policies. This
House is not surprised that the challenges that we were faced with were very big. So, those challenges are the ones that we are trying to solve so that we implement the online and manual.
We do not want to go backwards on policy implementation. In other words, at times we do not use a lot of words to explain what is happening behind the scenes. We are however aware of some of these things, for example when we removed incentives for teachers that should we gather and ask whether we should remove them. Some will say it is good because they are benefiting but the poor will suffer. So, on some of the things we look whether the practice is educationally sound. So, we look at the interest of education so that we come up with good plans. I have faith that the Hon. Member once got into discussions with us concerning that issue.
*HON. PHIRI: My question is directed to the Minister of Primary and Secondary Education. You have spoken on the issue of zoning, I did not get a good response, those involved in zoning - are they boarders or there are boarders and day scholars as well. If a child has listed the schools that he or she prefers and he or she cannot get a place there, is there any room for that child to go back online to chose another school or she now has to go school by school looking for a place?
*THE MINISTER OF PRIMARY AND SECONDARY
EDUCATION (HON. DR. DOKORA): Thank you for the
question asked by Hon. Phiri. He wants to know whether children are eligible for schools in their locality despite those parents wanting the children to be boarders. He or she can go to a school which is in his or her zone. The other question is that if I do not get a place from those three choices; if the child cannot get a school from those schools, she also has a choice of looking for places at other schools but those which are now full, they are no longer on the choice list. You are only left with schools that have places and the number is about 3 000 to 4 000 places.
*HON. NDUNA: I need help from the Minister because
children are failing to get places in their zones even on those places which are not on the list because they have more points. What plans do you have to ensure that these schools take children who got 36 units but cannot get into those schools?
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order, I think the Chair is going to send out one or two Hon. Members now. Reduce your whispers please.
*HON. DR. DOKORA: On the issue of children who got 24
or 36 points and parents want these children to get boarding places. Let me explain it this way so that we can be on the same level. We did not give an instruction on selection criteria, even the schools that you choose, we did not tell them to scale them in terms of priority. We said just choose three schools. All the schools are the same. We did not rank them orderly because what we thought was that the admissions committee sit down and say that we are a missionary school. The church has got interests on that school and that should be taken into account. You can say this is a Government school, if the admissions committee have taken children - some start probably by taking girls, some look at Mathematics and General Paper, once they have done that, if your child has got 36 units and if she gets a place; it is up to the school that with the performance of those that they have chosen and the one with 36 points, what is the gap, how are they going to fit into that system because probably that one is a slow learner and they take time to adjust? St. Alberts has taken children with four to five units and some with 12 to 15, they used their own discretion, and we just gave them the liberty to do what they deemed good for them.
*HON. A. MNANGAGWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
question is directed to the Minister of Sport and Recreation, Hon. Hlongwane. We have seen a lot of sporting activity in Harare which you are really supporting but what is the Government policy in bringing those sports in the rural schools because I understand that those children are also gifted in those sports?
*THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
(HON. HLONGWANE): Thank you Hon. Mnangagwa for asking
that question. In schools, in the new curriculum which Hon. Dr.
Dokora has talked about which is starting in January; sports, Physical Education and Mass Display are going to be given the same precedence as Mathematics and English. These are now examinable subjects as well from ECD to A’ level and that is going to help children so that they pursue sport, recreation and physical education as a way of getting a living.
However, as Government looking at our policy, we were seeing that there are children who are not academically gifted but do well in sports. Some of them go up to O’ level but by the time they leave school the talent fades away. So, we now have Community Sport and Recreation Strategy where there is a programme called Community Sports and Recreation Club System. As we are speaking right now, our officers are busy trying to form about 21 clubs in the wards, in rural areas in order for us to have structured sports on the ground in our communities.
These clubs if they are of soccer, are registered under ZIFA, if they are cricket, they are registered under cricket, if they are for hockey, they are registered under hockey. They only pay US$10 registration fee per club. When these processes are through in
February next year, we look forward that we will be having about 80
000 structured clubs in the rural areas, then we start our National Youths Games starting from the wards where we only have one week which will be devote to youths games. Then we will go to District
Youth Games and after that we will also go on to Provincial Youths Games. When the league competition is complete, if it is soccer, they should not take one team to the next level but they should come up with a team from all the teams, the same applies to district and province. We have used what we call Select Based Model so that children who are talented should not be left behind. We will be having our officers and those from different associations where we will look at talented children. They will be writing their names down so that they can be absorbed in the divisions that we have and they will have a career path.
HON. MLISWA: Minister, you have no national policy on sports - that we know, so how do you intend to run sport without a national policy? Equally, you talk about the wards, we are Members of Parliament and I do not have a sports coordinator in ward. So, where are you deriving this without a national policy?
HON. HLONGWANE: I understand that because the Hon.
Member was out of Parliament, he might not be aware; we do have a policy – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister please do not engage
in a duel.
HON. HLONGWANE: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir. In the month of August, Hon. Speaker, we adopted a new National Sport and Recreational policy. It is now as a matter of fact there and the Hon. Member can visit our offices to get a copy of the policy. However, that is not the only policy that we have passed. We now have a new revised National Youth Games Strategy. Subsequent to the passing of the policy, we have put together a Zimbabwe National Fitness and Wellness programme as part of a strategy to get every Zimbabwean involved in wellness programming.
We have also come with a policy on the National Colours to coordinate the whole issue of how team Zimbabwe is kitted from a National Colours point of view that policy is now there. We have also put in place a team Zimbabwe International Games bidding and hosting policy to guide the whole policy around how to bid for games and to host them. So, we have put together a protocol that answers that question.
Finally, we have put together a team Zimbabwe selection policy so that all national teams in different sport codes are guided as to how they select athletes into the national team to obviate corruption, to make sure that we prevent it from taking place by way of athletes having to buy their way into national teams. So, that has been taken care of Hon. Mliswa.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is the other part of the
HON. HLONGWANE: Sorry about that – [HON. ZWIZWAI:
ahh imbomira Speaker varikutaura, gara pasi Makosini]-
THE HON. SPEAKER: The question was how does the
policy filter at the ward level for the process of selection as you had explained?
HON. HLONGWANE: The Hon. Member is right, Hon.
Speaker. From a structural point of view our tentacles do not reach the wards as Ministry of Sport. We go as far as the District offices and the DA office level. Given the freeze by the Ministry of Public Service in terms of recruiting new manpower into Government, we decided that we are going to collaborate with those ministries that have got manpower at the ward level. We have collaborated with the
Ministry of Women’s Affairs which has got ward coordinators that are present at the ward level as well as the Ministry of Youth. Our district officers are working together with these officers from these two Ministries to make sure that the programme does rich the grassroots level.
I must say that the response is kind of sedentary, kind of slow but there is a lot of work that is going on in that direction and we are hoping that with visits that are going to be happening the first week of January by my Ministry officials, it is going to speed up the process. We are going to see conclusion of this exercise in February, in time for the beginning of the National Ward Youth Games which is the preparatory process for the National Youth Games.
Hon. Mliswa having stood up on a point of order.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you cannot ask a supplementary over another supplementary because that was not the original question. It follows from Hon. Mnangagwa. Your supplementary arose from Hon. Mnangagwa’s question and you cannot ask another supplementary question.
HON. MLISWA: That stems from his mention of the national policy and my question was how much in terms of having to consult the stakeholders was done because my colleagues, Members of Parliament are not aware of the national policy. It is equally important that there is a wider consultation. We as Members of Parliament, through the Portfolio on Sport, he was supposed to table that before the Committee on Sport. That was not done. This is the first time he is talking about it without following the due process.
How can he call it a policy?
THE HON. SPEAKER: You want a point of clarification, not a supplementary.
HON. HLONGWANE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I must
start with the latter part of his question. After the passage of the policy in Cabinet, I indeed appeared before the Parliamentary
Portfolio Committee on Sport – [HON. ZWIZWAI: After, after?] – Even before. I did appear before your Committee Mr. Speaker Sir and we did speak about these matters. Let me speak about the process which the Hon. Member is concerned about. When I was appointed Minister in September of last year, I found a draft policy on my desk having been put together by my predecessor.
It is very clear from the policy that the consultative process was done in various provinces across the country and it is very clear that there was a validation process after the draft was done across various provinces of the country. To that extent, the consultation that my dear colleague, Hon. Member is referring to was done. I am not sure why he would be unaware of that process but that process was done.
I thank you – [HON. ZWIZWAI: We are all unaware.] –
HON. K. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Sports and Culture. What plans do you have in place to pay creditors of the AU Games hosted by Zimbabwe in Bulawayo in the year 2014; who are now about to lose business owing to borrowed working capital from the financial institutions?
THE MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION (HON.
HLONGWANE): Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Government is alive to its obligations in respect of amounts owing to service providers due to the December 2014 games in Bulawayo, the African Union
Sports Council Region 5 Games. In 2016, Government put together
a budget of $900 thousand to amortise that bill. Unfortunately, because of the challenges with revenue collection, the actual appropriation was done but the disbursement was not done to us as the line Ministry responsible for the issue that the Hon. Member is raising so that we could pass on the money to the people that are owed.
Government’s position is however, it accepts its obligations. It is quite clear that this is money that has to be paid and Government is going to pay once the resources are available. I thank you.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker for according me this opportunity. I want to wish you a Merry Christmas and also the House. My question is directed to the Leader of the House, Hon.
Vice President Mnangagwa, the Acting President of the Republic of
Zimbabwe. In our country in the Eastern Region bordering Mozambique, we have a challenge of our cattle from Chipinge and part of Nyanga being raided by armed people. Looking at
Musikavanhu, 49 cattle were taken from this area. The armed people were noticed and the police even confirmed. The perpetrators are from FRELIMO, the army of Mozambique.
They took our cattle. What plans do we have as a country to curb what is happening so that our families will not be disturbed.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The issue that is being referred to by the Hon. Member from Musikavanhu in
Chipinge is very true. It is not 44, actually it is 49 cattle and the perpetrators are not from FRELIMO. This is the second time that this act is taking place. The JOC from Manicaland and from Mozambique met yesterday to investigate this issue. Some of the cattle were found and returned. I think yesterday and today, the residents in Chipinge have been checking whether their cattle have been returned.
What came out was that at this border, there are people from
Mozambique who are staying in Zimbabwe and there are people from Zimbabwe who are staying in Mozambique. These people are relatives and they are fighting amongst themselves. There is what we call bandits from the RENAMO. Those are the ones who have guns. They are the ones who do these raids so that we do not get along well with the Government of Mozambique. In our JOC, we have soldiers, police and Office of the President from Zimbabwe.
The JOC in Mozambique also have soldiers, police and also Seguranca is in the JOC. For two days, they have been meeting but yesterday what they came up with is what I have just said. What happened is that one of us from Chipinge who was herding cattle was captured and they took him across the border. They heard gun shots and so, our guys from Chipinge crossed and saw the body there. They shot down a citizen from Zimbabwe. That is the crime that they committed. So, today I did not get any briefing but this is a report from yesterday.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Thank you
Acting President. You have enlightened us that we are together with the security, but my supplementary question is that right now, there is a buffer zone from Zimbabwe where they are saying that people should be removed from there, but what people are not clear about is the timeframe that they have been given for them to live the buffer zone. What plans do we have so that we help these people when they are being relocated from the buffer zone to safe areas? This is because right now, they have to build? So we cannot have people being removed and put in places where they now need to build. The war is not on our side but in Mozambique.
*HON. MNANGAGWA: Mr. Speaker, looking at Chipinge,
what I did not refer to is that the security from this side has come up with a plan that we do not agree to such plans. So outside from what I have said about JOC is that we have deployed people from our side so that these people will not cross the border. We have also seen that we have protected our people in the danger zone in a military sense.
Under the Ministry of Local Government, there is the Disaster Committee that is looking at the long plan and all is in order. Thank you.
HON. M. M. MAWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. My
question is directed to the Minister of Energy and Power Development, Hon. Minister Undenge. What is Government policy as regards to usage of plastic money? I am giving reference to service stations who are short changing people. They are calling for a maximum swipe of $20.00. So, I do not think it is going to work well for the nation. What is your Ministry doing about this if you are aware, and if you are not aware, what corrective measures are you supposed to be taking because we want a free for all festive period.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR UNDENGE): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member is asking me about plastic money. Although that is the domain of the monetary authorities, I will attempt to answer the question. The Government encourages the use of plastic money across board, even within ZESA for payment purposes. That is what we have informed everybody to do. But, how plastic money is used et cetera, my Ministry does not make policy over plastic money. We encourage our companies to make use of Point of sale machines because cash is not readily available. I thank you. – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]-
HON. M. M. MAWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker for allowing me to have the supplementary question. Hon. Minister, plastic money is not as good as cash because it is just swiping money coming from an account to an account. There should be no limitations if you are within our borders. I thank you for that.
THE HON. SPEAKER: What is your supplementary Hon.
HON. M. M. MAWERE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My
supplementary question is that the service stations are not supposed to limit people because that is not their money. The money belongs to individuals not to service stations or banks. Why is it being done that way? Thank you.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Mr. Speaker Sir, perhaps the Hon. Member did not capture my response in full. I said we encourage every garage to accept and make use of plastic money. As I said, respective policy is not done by us. We encourage them because we appreciate the fact that there is a cash shortage and we must move towards plastic money. That is what we encourage the garages to do.
I thank you.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon. Minister, the
import of the question is you are responsible for energy, that is fuel energy and that industry is short changing the public. That is the import of the question.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Mr. Speaker Sir, I will look into that as I said that we want every garage to ensure that all transactions are done using plastic money. Thank you.
HON. ZWIZWAI: I have a supplementary question.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Is the supplementary question justified when the Hon. Minister has said he will look into the matter? Where does the supplementary question arise?
HON. ZWIZWAI: On plastic money Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, no. I will not allow that. Allow the Hon. Minister to look into the issue and I am sure the Hon.
Minister will come back to Parliament.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank you for reprimanding me. I was caught unaware. I did not know that Hon. Mnangagwa is the acting President. I am sorry for
My question is directed to the Minister of Finance and
Economic Development. I have gone around Ward 6 of Harare where all the banks and shops are situated. There is a cash crisis which we thought was going to be eased by the introduction of bond notes. Parents and domestic workers want money to use during the festive season. They need money for transport to ferry them to the rural areas. They cannot use POS machines or Eco-cash in the buses but they do not have the bond notes to use. The money that is being given is one hundred dollars which is three hundred dollars per month and the money is scarce. People wake up very early at around 0200 a.m. and only 100 people are given money.
We would want to know the plans that you have because all the people were waiting for the bond notes. They thought things were going to be easy but now the bond note is there and there is no change. People are suffering especially during this festive season.
HON. CHAPFIKA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: There is no point of order allowed –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
*THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Firstly, I want to thank the Zimbabweans who welcomed the bond notes. Right now, the worry is that we have a low allocation and this should be increased.
That is what Hon. Zwizwai has asked. What is coming now is just a few; why can we not bring in a lot of them.
The central bank is ceased with the issue and they are doing their best so that they work things out. I want this House to know that at the moment, bond notes are an incentive to those who are selling outside the country. These include tobacco growers and gold miners. Right now, the Reserve Bank has released US$29.6 million into the market and they are doing their best to see that the challenges we are facing are lessened. The issue of bond notes is not an overnight thing. The Reserve Bank will work flat out so that they work things out.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: Thank you Hon. Speaker and thank you
Hon. Minister Chinamasa for the answer that you have given us.
My supplementary question is, the Minister is saying that a small amount of bond notes has been released. The Minister speaks as if the money is only an incentive whereas we are talking about the money people have in their accounts because the Government and Ministry are obliged to give people their money. People understood that you said that yes the US dollar is not our currency; now because we have the bond, why do you not give us the money because the
Government is obliged to give us our US$ which you cannot meet. We are saying give us the bond notes but you are not releasing the bond note into the market so that we get our money and get food on the table.
*HON. CHINAMASA: I think I have explained. You can take it or not but people welcome the bond notes and they are getting their money. It is not possible that all of it should be released into the market. It takes time.
*HON. MUDZURI: My supplementary question is that people have their money in US dollars but now we have a law. The central bank issued a statement that people can take bond notes, about three hundred and US$100. When I asked this from the Leader of the House, he said that you are not forced to withdraw bond notes but now there is a law that you should take so much. Is it not the same that when you have a foreign currency and local account, you wake up one day and both the accounts will be in bond notes?
*HON. CHINAMASA: Mr. Speaker, I think I have answered this question. It has been asked by Hon. Zwizwai and I have repeated and I am repeating. The answer is the same. The answer is that right now, there is US$29.6 million which has been released into the market - [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY CHAIR (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Hon. Members, this is why you continue asking supplementary questions because you do not listen. You are busy talking when the Minister is answering. Can we please whisper if we want to have discussions with our friends? We are not allowed to shout. Can we hear the Minister in silence please?
*HON. CHINAMASA: Hon. Mudzuri is talking as if he manufactures the US dollars. Those who manufacture the green back…
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: On a point of order. I believe that the first part of the response by the Hon. Minister must be withdrawn because it is unparliamentary. When the Hon. Member asked that question, he is not asking on his own behalf but rather he is asking because it is a concern which is coming from Zimbabweans that have got a right to access their money in the currency that they deposited it into the banks. For the Hon. Minister to indicate that VaMudzuri vanotaura kunge vanobika maUS dollars, it is a bit arrogant. I thank you.
*HON. CHINAMASA: I have answered the question. There is
nothing to add from what I have said before. What I have said is that the Central Bank is aware and is seized with the matter that the money circulation is tight and they are going to increase in line with the country’s needs. If we put US$100m right now, it will disturb the economy. You will not understand it. They found it prudent that the bond notes be released gradually and increase when the demand is higher like this festive season.
Those who are withdrawing their money are the ones that have money in the banks. There is no one who is going to the queues who is not getting their money. All the people are getting the allocations that they are supposed to get.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER
NON-ADVERSE REPORT RECEIVED FROM THE
PARLIAMENTARY LEGAL COMMITTEE THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House
that I have received a Non-Adverse Report from the Parliamentary Legal Committee on the Land Commission Bill (H.B. 2A, 2016). HON. MLISWA: Hon. Dr. Made, you are aware that the command agricultural programme started with you wanting to identify 100 farmers in each province. That certainly has not been the case because there have been more farmers. As a result, there is a shortage of inputs. The farmers are also planting late which will affect their yields.
The contract with command agriculture states that a farmer must give five tonnes to Government in terms of payment. With late planting which has happened, obviously it will affect the yields. How do you intend to deal with that problem? Equally, there are so many farmers who have not received adequate inputs, can we not say that command agriculture has failed. I thank you.
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. MADE): I want to thank the Hon. Member first of all for the comments that he has given, that are quite pertinent in terms of the target of command agriculture. He is very correct that the target is based on adequate inputs and planting on time. However, I do not agree with the position that command agriculture will be a total failure. We will examine each case as it relates to the various inputs that arrived late namely herbicides, certainly that has got an impact, compound (D) certainly that has an impact and top dressing fertilizer as well but I want to say that we will examine each contract and each field circumstances on a farmer by farmer basis. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: My supplementary question is that command agriculture plan was to have 100 farmers in each province and Government had prepared for that. You then increased the farmers without adding the inputs and at this point in time, farming is about season. We must be able to be clear so that Government is well aware of the fact that we will not meet the target because the yields have gone unless the Minister of Water and Climate is able to tell us that the weather conditions have changed that is another phenomenal. We must have clear position in terms of the preparedness of the season. I am under Command Agriculture, as I speak I did not get adequate herbicides, it will affect the yield - five tonnes is not achievable when you are planting in December and January. You are a doctor in agriculture and I am sure you have an answer pertaining to the intended target of 5 tonnes per hectare, which means that the agreement…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): To the point.
HON. MLISWA: Which means that the agreement that you have with the farmer - already Government is in breach of that contract, so how do you recover your money when Government is in breach?
THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE,
MECHANISATION AND IRRIGATION DEVELOPMENT
(HON. DR. MADE): I think the Hon. Member is trying to prepare for an eventuality that we must subject to technical facts on the ground. I will not be speculative about it, so, we will only examine the technical facts on the grounds. Secondly, Command Agriculture did not specify that there will be 100 farmers per province, that is not correct. Thirdly, the position that he is referring to in terms of the yields as per the given planting time can only relate to the irrigated croup otherwise the dry land crop - even the irrigated crop as we are talking is still within the context of achieving the minimum tonnage per hectare – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Is that not in breach?] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): Order please.
HON. DR. MADE: It is not.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): Thank you Hon. Minister.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by the TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MARUMAHOKO) in terms of
Standing Order Number 64.
HON. SITHOLE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): What is your point of order?
*HON. SITHOLE: We want Hon. Chinamasa to give us a
Ministerial Statement so, we want to know when he is coming because there were a number of issues that were raised. So, we want to know from the Minister when he is presenting the Ministerial
Statement in the House.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
MARUMAHOKO): I have said time for Questions Without Notice
has expired. So, that is part of the question that you are asking. I will liaise with the Minister later but otherwise it is time for Questions With Notice.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
RESTORATION OF POWER AT DOMBORUTINHIRA
BUSINESS CENTRE IN MUTASA DISTRICT
- HON. SARUWAKA asked the Minister of Energy and
Development to inform the House when the Ministry would restore power at Domborutinhira business centre in Ward 19 of Mutasa
District, where the transformer was struck by lightning in February 2015, thereby affecting the business operations, especially the butcheries and bottle stores.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker Sir, this is the second time – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Mimicking Hon.
Undenge’s voice] – [Laughter.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: It is unfortunate some of us do not
behave in a parliamentary way. Perhaps though it is unparliamentary, we have fallstuffs, the equivalent of people who do not exhibit normal parliamentary behaviour. Those the gods want to destroy, they first make mad. Let me now turn to the question Mr.
Speaker Sir. This is the second time I am answering this question. Last week I answered the same question. The transformer in question has already been replaced and last week the Hon. Member actually thanked me for having replaced the transformer. I thank you.
INSTALLATION OF PREPAID METERS IN GLEN-NORAH
- HON. MAONDERA asked the Minister of Energy and
Power Development to inform the House:
- When prepaid meters would be installed in Glen-Norah considering that three years have passed since ZESA last installed the meters;
- What measures have been taken to deal with unscrupulous ZESA employees who demand bribes in order to reconnect customers;
- What measures are being taken to deal with ZESA employees who have been illegally selling prepaid meters for US$250 yet these are supposed to be installed for free.
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): Mr. Speaker, let me
thank the Hon. Member for raising such pertinent issues. Glen Nora is among several Harare Suburbs such as Mufakose, Mbare, Mabvuku and Dzivarasekwa, where over 100 000 prepaid meter installations are still outstanding. The second phase of prepaid meter installations that coveres Glen Norah and the other suburbs has been delayed due to non-delivery of meters by our suppliers who were awarded the tender to supply 130 000 prepaid meters. To date only 11 200 meters have been delivered as the foreign manufacturers are not getting adequate foreign currency allocation to deliver the meters. ZESA is engaging key stakeholders to resolve the matter. The roll out of phase two that includes Glen Norah is now expected to start in the first quarter of 2017.
With regards to the second part of the Hon. Member’s query, ZESA is engaging consumer advisory boards, resident associations and other customer representative bodies in its campaign against corruption, fraud and bribery. In addition, an electronic and print media campaign is also underway urging customers to report unscrupulous staff members using toll free hot lines managed by Deloitte.
Disconnected points are being followed up and customers found illegally reconnected are penalized. Police reports are made for identified offending staff involved in fraud, including the alleged settling of prepaid meters. In such instances, stern disciplinary measures are in place for perpetrators.
*HON. MAONDERA: Hon. Minister, we thank you but it is not only Glen Norah, but all people in Zimbabwe are getting meters for US$250 to US$300 from ZESA employees. Can you tell us if there are employees of ZESA who have been prosecuted? You are saying that supply is not able to meet demand; if we talk to the ZESA bosses they are not taking any action so our people are facing challenges. What are you doing so that we are satisfied that these meters are not being sold? All the meters must have references and where they are going. Where were these 11 00 meters installed, can you give us an audit because people are crying out there?
*HON. DR. UNDENGE: Mr. Speaker Sir, let me speak in
Shona because he asked his question in Shona. The Hon. Member is saying that people are buying meters and I said that it is corruption and it takes two to tango. So, if you buy and you comply and you do not report to the police you are also an accomplice. People from ZESA and the police will only act when cases are reported, that is how the law works. If you want an audit, it will be done and that information is available from ZESA. I thank you.
ELECTRIFICATION OF CHITINHA AND CHIRAMBA
PRIMARY SCHOOLS IN CHIMANIMANI WEST
- HON. CHIKUNI asked the Minter of Energy and Power
Development to inform the House when Chitinha and Charamba Primary Schools in Chimanimani West would be electrified?
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. DR. UNDENGE): The electricity line to Chiramba Primary School has been constructed and the project now awaits a transformer. Once the transformer becomes available, hopefully not later than March 2017, the project will be completed.
Plans are underway to electrify Chitinha Primary School in 2018.
HON. D. P. SIBANDA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to find out from the Hon. Minister what policy measures his Ministry is putting in place to ensure that critical institutions like hospitals are always having supply of electricity. I thank you.
HON. DR. UNDENGE: Hon. Speaker, we do have a standing
policy that critical institutions like the hospitals which the Hon. Member has asked about are kept supplied by power always. Of course there could be issues when there is a fault along the line when there is a cut off, but ZESA speedily attends to such faults so that our hospitals where patients are kept are constantly supplied with power.
I thank you.
DOCTOR TO PATIENT RATIO IN ZIMBABWE
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Health and
- To state the current doctor to patient ratio in Zimbabwe.
- What would be the ideal ratio; and
- What steps is the Government taking to improve on the doctor to patient ratio.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. MUSIIWA): Hon. Chimanikire wanted to find out
the current state of the doctor to patient ratio in Zimbabwe. Well, in terms of ratio it is 0.0792/1000 population. To put it more simply, we have got less than one doctor for every 250 000 people.
He also went on to ask what would be the ideal ratio. The ideal ratio would be to have at least three doctors per every 1 000 population. He also has a third part to the question which says, what steps the Government is taking to improve on the doctor to patient ratio. Our response is at the moment, we actually are training enough doctors for the country. We are currently lobbying for Treasury to allow us more posts so that we can employ more doctors otherwise, we are training enough doctors. If we have enough posts then we should be able to have the current ratio. Thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: I would like the Minister to explain what he means by training enough doctors when actually our current ratio is one doctor....
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. Members.
You are no longer whispering but you are making noise.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: If we have the ratio of one doctor to every 250 000 patients, can he qualify what he means by saying we are currently training enough doctors. Does he have figures and when those doctors graduate what is the time period - do we expect them to actually fill in those posts that will be able to give us a ratio of three doctors to 1000?
HON. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking that question. Actually, in terms of training, we are currently graduating about 360 doctors every year and the problem then comes with retention. Once we have graduated these doctors and deployed them in the system, we are losing a lot of doctors both to the region...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Address the Chair Hon.
HON. MUSIIWA: ... both to the region and internationally.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, address the
HON. MUSIIWA: Although the replacement rate is okay, we are not retaining enough doctors in the country. So, until we have enough money in Treasury to create more posts, it is going to take some time until we reach the required ratio. Thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Once every two years Hon. Speaker, we have junior doctors going on strike because of conditions of service and the last strike was less than 18 months ago. Can the Minister inform the nation as to what steps they have taken to improve the conditions of service of junior doctors that are under training? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for asking the question. It is an issue of great concern when we lose trained and qualified staff. However, it is a situation pertaining across the board in the country. At the moment, our salaries compared to those that pertain in the region and abroad are much lower. Until our economic situation improves, it is going to be very difficult. However, what we have done as a Ministry is, in respect of junior doctors, we have provided accommodation within the institutions which they work on at lower rates. We have also allowed them vehicle loans as a way of retaining them. As to the salaries that we can give them, that is an issue of Treasury. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: I have a point of order Hon. Speaker. I rise on a lighter note to also congratulate the ZIFA President for being made the Cosafa President. It is a very big achievement in the history of Zimbabwe. I think it would be unfair as a House for us not to recognise that appointment on Dr. Chiyangwa being the Cosafa President. It is like being the Chairman of the SADC region from a political point of view. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
NUMBER OF TRAINED UNEMPLOYED GRADUATE NURSES
AND MEASURES TO ENSURE THE TRAINING
PROGRAMMES ARE OF ECONOMIC VALUE
- HON. CHIMANIKIRE asked the Minister of Health and
Child Care to state the number of trained graduate nurses who are currently unemployed in Zimbabwe and what remedial action the Ministry is taking to ensure that the training programmes are of economic value.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I thank the Hon. Member for asking this question. At the moment, we have about 3150 registered general nurses who have graduated and are out of employment. Besides that, we also have 1100 primary care nurses who have also graduated and are awaiting employment.
As I said before, we trained for the national needs. The current establishment is very low. It was an establishment that was given to us in 1982 when the country’s population was only seven million and the disease burden was much less. If we could have fiscal space, then we would be able to absorb all the nurses that are on the streets at the moment. However, to mitigate this situation, we are looking at modalities of exporting this trained labour pool in countries of need.
When we have finalised these modalities, we will bring them to Parliament for consideration and approval. I thank you.
HON. CHIMANIKIRE: Mr. Speaker, the idea of exporting
labour in terms of trained nurses was mooted in this Parliament more than four years ago and nothing has happened. Can the Minister state to the nation when the programme is likely to be implemented; not just the fact that he is going to bring the programme? When is it likely to be implemented because we are four years down the line?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Hon. Member for raising this question. It is also an issue of concern. However, I would want to assure this House that we are at a very advanced stage. We are currently looking at three countries that have expressed interest in absorbing our nurses. What we are currently looking at is the contracts that these countries are offering and the benefit that it will accrue to the nurses and the country. Very soon, we are also working on this strategy. I want to assure you in the next quarter, we will be bringing this strategy to Parliament for approval. Thank you.
*HON. MAPIKI: My supplementary question is, the Minister said the Ministry has 3150 trained nurses. When are they going to be exported? This is because some of them have been trained 10 years ago. Are they going to go for retraining before they are being exported?
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I thank
the Hon. Member for asking this question. It is very true that we have more than 3000 trained nurses but it is not true that they have been trained 10 years ago. When we absorb nurses into the system, we follow the years that they trained. Up to now Treasury was recruiting nurses who graduated during the third quarter of 2013, so they are not yet 10 years old. On the issue that people who have been trained in medication should remain appraised, nurses who are not practising have registered with the Nurses Council. One precondition for them to register is they do what is called continuous education. They should earn points per year so that they keep appraised with the situation at the ground so we believe that they are still current. Thank you.
HON. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker. What is the Government policy on ZIMASSET that we should have 2.2 million jobs? We heard the Minister saying that most of the nurses who have qualified are still at home. What plans do they have that their policy should be in line with ZIMASSET?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think the Hon. Minister
has answered that question when he was talking about Treasury.
There is nothing that he can do if Treasury has no money.
*HON. CHAMISA: I want to thank you Mr. Speaker. What
is worrying me about the issue of training of nurses is that does the Government think it is proper for us to keep on training nurses when we know that we do not have the capacity to absorb them into our system? Why can we not have a programme that can absorb the nurses that are trained already instead of keeping on training and training? What is Government doing or maybe we can do what Cubans used to do. The country was arranging with other countries to absorb their people and then get some money in return. We can get in partnership with other countries. If we do that, it will help us. We used to get doctors from Cuba.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to
thank the Hon. Member for asking this question. It is a very pertinent question which is constantly asked, that is why should we continue training nurses and doctors when we cannot absorb them into our system. What I want to say to this House is that Zimbabwe on its own is well known in the region even internationally as a country which really trains its people well. Human resources is the best resource. It does not mean that if we are constrained right now we cannot absorb our people, we cannot develop a national resource. Many people are amazed on why the economy of Zimbabwe does not fall down; it is because the diaspora remittances which you talk about are coming from Zimbabweans which is our human resource which we export that they can work in other countries. If those people are not trained, they cannot go and work in those places remitting to their countries, so we keep on training.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you did not
answer the question. I think let the Hon. Member repeat.
HON. CHAMISA: I was fascinated by the response of the
Hon. Minister, he went on to talk…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, I have given
you the opportunity to repeat the question.
*HON. CHAMISA: Thank you for really restraining me Mr. Speaker. I said, what plans does Government have that we should not let people just go out and look for jobs on their own. Can we not see to it that those who are going out, if we cannot absorb them in our hospitals, is it not possible that we should engage other countries, then we get in partnership so that we send 2 000 or 3 000 for the next five or ten years and we get money from that agreement and then we keep on training our people. What is happening is that there are people who are just sitting down but we have trained them and they end up not practicing as nurses. That is my plea that do you have any plans, if you do not have any plans, here are some of the plans that we have so that we can build our country. Thank you.
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for the question but he is repeating the question which has been asked by Hon. Chimanikire. That is the same question he asked that what plans do you have of the nurses that we have. I said that we are in partnership with four countries that we are engaging that we should have bilateral relations, country to country so that people will leave with the blessing of the country. When the plans are in place, I will bring them to Parliament; they have to be approved by Parliament.
HON. TOFFA: The Hon. Minister is telling us that there are four countries that they are negotiating with. Previously, the Minister also did tell us that there was a programme where we will be exporting labour and nurses were on the programme. I think the Minister needs to tell us which countries are these and how far they have gone with the programme because he keeps telling us about negotiations. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you very much Mr. Speaker. I
am sorry to repeat. As a matter of procedure, I cannot bring this to the House until it is approved by Cabinet. I think it is well and good for me to let you know that in the next quarter, we will be bringing the finished product to Parliament for approval. Thank you.
CONSTRUCTION OF A CLINIC IN KASIBO VILLAGE
- HON. MKANDLA asked the Minister of Health and Child
Care when the Ministry is going to build a clinic in Kasibo village in Hwange East Constituency where people travel between 30 to 45 km to the nearest clinic which is Mwemba clinic.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want
to thank the Hon. Member for asking this question. It is actually in the Ministry’s plan to construct a clinic at Kasibo Village but this is going to be done through Hwange Rural District Council. The plans for this clinic have already been submitted. We are awaiting funds for the construction of the clinic. Thank you.
HON. SANSOLE: I want to thank the Minister for the response but I just want to find out whether the Ministry has plans to build clinics in every ward because this particular ward does not have a clinic and I have raised the issue with Hwange Rural District Council as the Constituency Member of Parliament and I have been advised that they intend to build a satellite clinic at Kasibo Village and a clinic at Mashala Village which is nearer to an existing clinic. Does the Ministry have plans to build clinics in every ward so as to reduce the distances travelled by villagers? Thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Mr. Speaker. It is true, we
have received plans to construct this clinic in this particular ward. It is definitely in our plans. However, as to the construction of clinics in every ward, it is not feasible at the moment because of the financial constraints. I can vouch for you that we are going to construct the Kasibo clinic. When we then move on to a situation where we are going to construct a rural health post, then we will consider a satellite clinic in the wards. At the moment, we are only going to build a clinic specifically for Kasibo. Thank you.
CONSTRUCTION OF A CLINIC IN SIANYAMA VILLAGE
- HON. MKANDLA asked the Minister of Health and Child
Care to inform the House whether the Ministry is going to build a clinic in Siyanyama Village, Mabale Ward in Hwange East Constituency where people walk a distance of 8 km to the nearest clinic which is Lupote Clinic.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): The current Ministry’s policy is that people should not walk for more than 10 km to the nearest health facility and in this case, the distance indicated by the Hon. Member is within the required radius. However, the Ministry is planning to establish health posts and Sianyama Village can be considered for the establishment of such a facility.
MEASURES IN PLACE TO ALLEVIATE THE PLIGHT OF
CLIENTS FACED WITH HIGH COSTS OF ACCESSING HEALTH SERVICES AT CHITUNGWIZA GENERAL
- HON. SITHOLE asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House what measures the Ministry is putting in place to alleviate the plight of clients who are faced with high costs of accessing health services at Chitungwiza General Hospital.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD
CARE (HON. DR. MUSIIWA): I would like to thank Hon. Sithole for asking this pertinent question about Chitungwiza Hospital. Well, I would like to say, the institution is operating under Government Public Hospital Service Delivery, under its normal guidelines. It is one of the hospitals that has good governance. The hospital is now in joint venture partnership in five areas, mainly the laboratory services, radiology, catering services, funeral parlor and pharmacy department.
The partnership has created a win/win situation between Chitungwiza Central Hospital and the corporate partners. This has tremendously improved service delivery at the hospital and has transformed it into a world class service provider. It is one of the star hospitals in the country.
As to the pricing system, Chitungwiza hospital still charges Government rates and I want to assure you that the consultation fees are still prescribed at Government rates, that is US$10 for adults aged between 11 and 64 years; US$5 for children between five years and 10 years. So, I believe it is still providing good service despite the fact that it has gone into private partnership. I thank you.
*HON. SITHOLE: Regarding children under five years, since there is a shortage of free drugs, what happens when you get drugs from private hospitals which are expensive?
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Member for asking
this question which is repeatedly asked but the truth is that in the country we have a law that under five year children do not pay when they are being attended to at hospitals, they get drugs for free. Currently, the money that we are getting is very little, so at times there are shortages of drugs in hospitals. There are two questions raised on this, that should we close the hospitals or we can engage someone to bring us drugs at a lower price which we then call private partnership.
You find that a private partnership pharmacy is as low on rates as other pharmacies around town. So, we have tried to curb the shortage of money. If it were possible, the drugs should be there for free.
*HON. SITHOLE: What is the Government policy on patients who go to hospital without money, should they be detained in the hospital?
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: It is not Government policy that people who have been attended to without money should be detained. Surely, all the people who would have been treated and have recovered should go back home. Detaining them will be very costly considering food and other things. So, Government policy is that if they are supposed to pay, we should be given their residential addresses and they should be made to sign a payment plan. Thank you.
POLICY ON COMPENSATION OF PEOPLE DISPLACED
FROM THE ZAMBEZI VALLEY
- HON. P. D. SIBANDA asked the Minister of Environment,
Water and Climate to state whether the Ministry has a policy to compensate the people who were displaced from the Zambezi Valley during the period 1955 - 1958 to pave way for the construction of Kariba Dam.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): I would like to thank Hon. Sibanda for the question. Mr. Speaker Sir, the Kariba dam is under the control of the Zambezi River Authority, a bi-national governmental body between Zimbabwe and Zambia created to develop and administer the Kariba dam and reservoir. In Zimbabwe, Z.R.A falls under the Ministry of Energy and Power Development. I am therefore, not in a position to respond to the question. I would like to request that the Hon. Member direct the question to the relevant authorities. I thank you.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker, I would like the Hon. Minister to inform me who those authorities are, that I have to consult because merely saying that I should be directed to the responsible authorities, without mentioning the responsible authorities, I think is not sufficient.
HON. MUCHINGURI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I indicated that the Ministry of Energy from the Zimbabwean side is the responsible authority. I am directing the Hon. Member to approach the Minister of Energy. I thank you.
HON. P. D SIBANDA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of
HON. P. D SIBANDA: Mr. Speaker, I think I would love the Hon. Minister to indicate why I should consult the Minister of Energy. When we are talking about the Zambezi River and the dam itself, it is not all about energy. One of the reasons why the dam was built was to get energy but my question is not about energy. When the Government is compensating people that are moved from some areas where dams are constructed, it is not within the province of the Ministry of Energy, it is within the province of the Ministry of Water. Therefore, ...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. This
question has to be redirected to the Ministry of Local Government, Public Works and National Housing.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
MANAGEMENT OF LAKE KARIBA BETWEEN ZIMBABWE
- 16. HON. MACKENZIE asked the Minister of Environment,
Water and Climate to explain the following to the House:
- the international Management Policy used to manage Lake
Kariba between Zambia and Zimbabwe;
- why residents in Kariba Town are denied their right to do gillnet fishing along Lake Kariba from Charara Estate, the
Leisure Bay and Chawara harbour;
- why Zimbabweans are not allowed to use twine nets on the lake when Zambians are allowed.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): Thank you for the question
Hon. Member. The International Management policy to manage Lake Kariba between Zambia and Zimbabwe – Mr. Speaker Sir, the statutory tool used in the management of Kariba between Zambia and Zimbabwe is called the Protocol on Economic and Technical Corporation between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe concerning management and development of fisheries on Lake Kariba and the Trans-boundary Waters of the Zambezi river. This protocol was jointly established by the governments of the two countries in 1999 setting the agenda for what each country does in the management of fisheries within its jurisdiction. The management objective of the protocol is to ensure that the yield from its fisheries is ecologically sustainable and economically viable within an equitable framework.
The vision of the Protocol is to link conservation efforts on the Zimbabwean side and the Zambian side of Lake Kariba. The pelagic species, kapenta, represents one fish stock in the lake.
Mismanagement by one country will affect the entire stock. Although the inshore stocks (gillnet stocks) are separate, the protocol provides an opportunity for dialogue between fishers and fisheries managers facilitating common ecosystem approach in which fishing communities are fully involved in fisheries management. This is one case of a Trans-frontier conservation area that works as a model for management of natural resources shared by countries.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the protocol also provides the legal framework for joint management of the fisheries resources. Two major bodies fall under this protocol, namely the Joint Fisheries Management Committee (JFTC). The JFMC is the decision-making body while the JFTC is the scientific/technical body.
Each riparian state to the protocol has an obligation to share information with their counterpart. This information includes catch statistics, number of fishing vessels and patrol efforts made to encounter poaching. Riparian states are also obliged to have representation in the technical and management committee. Technical consultations which are an information sharing platform are held every 2 years with rotational hosting of the meetings between the countries.
According to Article 6 of the protocol, fishing effort (number of boats fishing) is to be shared according to the area of the lake which each state holds. Zimbabwe, which holds 55% of the lake, is entitled to 55% of the total fishing effort (particularly of the kapenta fishery which is a shared stock). Currently, Zimbabwe has 460 kapenta fishing boats on the lake and Zambia has 962 boats officially declared. This means the current ratio is 32:68 in Zambia’s favour which is against the protocol agreement.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker Sir, research has shown that the kapenta is above the sustainable limit. A total of 500 boats are required in total on the lake to have a sustainable fishery. With the agreed ration, Zimbabwe is to have 275 rigs and Zambia should have
- The current total is pegged at 1422, meaning there is overcapacity on the lake. Riparian states agreed in 2013 Bio Economic Working Group Meeting to reduce the number of rigs and/or the number of fishing nights to ensure that the fishery is exploited sustainably.
Zimbabwe has to date reduced the total number of fishing nights from 30 days to 23 days a month, a 23% reduction in total fishing effort. This has led to an improvement on the catch statistics, with Basin 5 (Kariba) in 2015 realizing an increase from 88kg/rig per night. This proves that effort reduction does result in better returns for the fishers.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in conclusion, both countries are supposed to ensure that fishing effort is regulated and pegged at a sustainable level by committing to and abiding by the dictates of the protocol to ensure that the fishery recovers and maximum returns are realised. This will result in improved food security status of both nations, particularly for Zimbabwe which gets 90% of its fish protein from Lake Kariba, over 50% of this being from Kapenta fishing.
- Why residents in Kariba Town are denied their right to do gillnet fishing along Lake Kariba from Charara estate, the leisure Bay and Chawara harbour – Mr. Speaker Sir, the shoreline mentioned is used for rod and line fishing only. Generally, if gillnetting is allowed in these parts, the rod and line fishers will be deprived of catches. The area referred to as the Leisure Bay also acts as a control area where limited fishing pressure is applied, allowing the fish to breed and feed into the major gillnet and kapenta fisheries along the lake on the other side of the lake. Once this area is open for gillnet fishing, this could impact negatively on the productivity of the fishery. It should also be noted that the shoreline mentioned is where a lot of boating is done. If this area were to be netted, this would result in a lot of user conflict with boating being disrupted. Gillnets tend to affect boat engines by becoming entangled in the propellers. This is not only dangerous but also very expensive to repair. However, sustainability of the fisheries of Lake Kariba is paramount hence having some area closed to fishing.
- Why Zimbabweans are allowed to use twin nets on the lake when Zambians are allowed – Mr. Speaker Sir, twine nets have been found to be a very unsustainable form of fishing. It has been proven that use of twine nets produces catches that are much higher than the multifilament form of fishing gear. As a result, this will defeat principles of sustainable utilisation which Zimbabwe subscribes to. The reason why Zambia has very low fish production into it’s gillnet fishery can be attributed to this form of fishing gear as well as the open access nature of the fishery. By open access, we are referring to the lack of restriction on entry where anyone who has neighbours is the very cause we have their fishers encroaching on Zimbabwean fishing grounds because they have overfished their stocks and now resort to poaching from Zimbabwean fishing grounds.
Twine nets are highly resistant to abrasion and degradation; hence the netting has potential to last for many years if it is not recovered unlike the multifilament (cotton nets). When abandoned in water, they have the effect of continuing to catch fish (what is referred to as ‘ghost fishing’) this means that the net will continue to trap fish for as long as it is in the water thereby depleting the fish resources and also leads to the unsustainable fishing practices which we as a country try to guard against. Cotton nets will, with time degrade and not impact negatively on the fisheries resources.
Zimbabweans appreciated the role the fisheries of Lake Kariba play to food security and manages the fisheries in a way that ensures that it is carried out sustainably. If we go the Zambian route, there is that danger of a collapse in the fishery leading to loss of employment and income for fishers dotted along the lake.
POLICY ON WEATHER FORECAST FOR TOURIST
RESORTS IN MASVINGO
- HON. MAVHENYENGWA asked the Minister of Environment, Water and Climate to explain Government policy regarding the weather forecast for tourist resort areas on the state television and to explain why the Great Zimbabwe Monument which is a tourist attraction in Masvingo is not featuring on the weather forecast.
THE MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, WATER AND
CLIMATE (HON. MUCHINGURI): I would like to thank the
Hon. Member for the question requiring me to explain Government policy regarding the weather forecast for tourist resort areas on the state television and to explain why the Great Zimbabwe Monument which is a tourist attraction in Masvingo is not featuring on the weather forecast.
There is no Government policy regarding weather forecasting for tourist resort areas on the State television. The time allocated for TV presentations is very short to show all the tourist resorts, monuments and other places of interest to the general public.
However, the Great Zimbabwe weather forecast is presented under Masvingo.
Questions With Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I seek
the leave of the House to move that Orders of the Day, Numbers 1 to 27, be stood over until Orders of the Day, Numbers 28 and 30 have been disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
HON. CHAMISA: I have no objection Mr. Speaker Sir but we are indisposed as a House to transact this very important business. This is a very important debate, we cannot afford to go on a no quorum basis. Members must come; the quorum is not properly constituted, we want it to be properly constituted so that we can transact the business. We do not want to joke around. This is a very important Bill, the Minister has been here and is a serious man and we must grace his efforts. We cannot afford to be unfair to the Minister. We must whip people back from the coupons to come here. Coupons are not as important as this Bill. Yes, there is no quorum Mr. Speaker and we have sent people to call other Members back. What is unfair is absconding Parliament.
RESERVE BANK OF ZIMBABWE AMENDMENT BILL (H.B.
Twenty-Eighth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion on the
Second Reading of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill
[H.B. 12, 2016].
Question again proposed.
1.1 The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Amendment Bill was gazetted on 17 November 2016. The Bill seeks to provide a legal framework for the Central Bank to issue bond notes exchangeable at par value with the United States dollar, on the same basis that it previously issued bond coins. The Bill also seeks to validate the issuance of bond coins currently in circulation.
1.2 Upon gazetting of the Bill, the Committee on Finance and Economic Development resolved to conduct public consultations on the Bill, consistent with Section 141 of the Constitution. The consultations were held from 29 November to 3 December, 2016, in
Gweru, Bulawayo, Gwanda, Lupane, Masvingo, Mutare, Marondera, Harare, Chinhoyi and Bindura. The Bill generated mixed views from the general public. Those who supported the Bill felt that the introduction of the bond notes would ease liquidity challenges and facilitate small local market transactions. There were also dissenting voices but would not substantiate their reasons for opposing the Bill other than expressing expressed fears of losing their savings given their experiences with bearer cheques in 2008. A number of recommendations for improving the Bill were however suggested during the consultations and the proposals will be explained later.
1.3 In terms of the consultations, members of the public queried why Parliament did not conduct the consultations for the proposed introduction of the bond notes much earlier before they were released since Government had expressed its intention sometime in June, 2016. Some even called for the use of bond notes to be subjected to a referendum as a way to ascertain the level of acceptance.
2.0 Submissions from the public
2.1 Members of the public who were in support of the Bill argued that the introduction of the bond notes would address the liquidity challenges that were currently being experienced in the country. The expectation was that bond notes would facilitate small business transactions such as buying of fruits, including wild fruits and vegetables. They further noted that the introduction of bond notes would restrict the use of foreign currency to the financing of critical national imports. Some expressed their gratitude that they would now be able to pay local school fees for their children. To that end, they recommended that the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe should speed up the release of bond notes to enable account holders to withdraw their earnings in reasonable amounts to mitigate against bank charges. They also expressed dissatisfaction with the withdrawal limits imposed by banks which resulted in numerous daily transactions. The small withdrawal limits were now eroding their earnings thereby discouraging savings/deposits. It was further proposed that account holders be allowed to withdraw their weekly limits at once to mitigate against unproductive time spent in bank queues.
2.2 Members of the public also noted that the introduction of the bond notes would curb the externalisation of the limited foreign currency given that they are only available for use in Zimbabwe.
2.3 Participants welcomed the introduction of exports incentives as it would avail more money to the productive exporting sectors of the economy, thereby generating more foreign exchange for the country. They however, proposed the following improvements to the Bill:
- That the Bill should provide for penalties for any conditional acceptance of the bond notes as legal tender.
- Serious penalties for defacing the bond notes and those who will subject it to the parallel market for profit.
- That the Bill should further provide for a guarantee against possible unforeseen losses that may arise at the expiry of the Afrexim-bank loan guarantee;
- The Bill should provide for the establishment of an independent body to monitor the printing and circulation of bond notes to a maximum limit of the Afrexim-bank guarantee.
- Members of the public who opposed the Bill made reference to the extraordinary hyper inflationary environment following issuance of bearer cheques in 2008 which eventually led to the adoption of a multicurrency system to stabilise the economy. That transition to the multi-currency system, left Zimbabweans exposed with hordes of the bearer cheques which they could not exchange anywhere value.
- Members of the public were concerned about statements attributable to the Executive where a perception was developed that the bond note would be exclusively paid to exporters and that would not be forced on the people. The Committee established that some people were not aware that the bond notes would be available to everybody including non-exporters.
- There were reservations expressed on the provision whereby the bond note is at par with the US dollar. There were allegations that an illegal foreign currency market had already emerged where the US dollar was trading at 1: 0,70 to the bond note. Members of the public questioned whether the bond notes could be used as a store of value just like any other currency.
- Some members of the public advised the Committee that more than 80% of the economy was informalised and the majority of the people did not have bank accounts and yet they import some of their products. They were wondering how they would access foreign currency from the banks.
- Some members of the public who were also opposed to the introduction of the bond notes argued that there was urgent need for the government to revive the local industries. They believed that this would result in increased production for local consumption and exports thereby generating foreign currency. It recommended that the Government initiates policies that are aimed at increasing production.
- There was concern raised on the quality and security features of the bond notes. Members of the public claimed that when one got soaked in the rains the notes would stain their clothes whilst it was observed that the some of the $2 notes were not identical. They called for improvements on the quality and security features on the bond notes.
- Members of the public were of the view that the introduction of the bond notes was actually frustrating an established use of plastic money.
- Committee’s Observations and Recommendations
- The Committee noted that the primary objective of the Bill is to give legitimacy to the bond notes and coins in circulation after the expiry of the Presidential Powers (Temporary Measures). In order to achieve the objectives set out in the Bill, the Committee recommends the following measures stemming from the observations from the submissions received during the consultations:
126.96.36.199 The Bill should provide for penalties for those individuals and corporates that do not accept bond notes and coins as legal tender. Stiff penalties should also be imposed on those found exchanging the notes at a different rate other than the one stipulated in the Bill.
188.8.131.52 The Committee proposes that the Bill should provide a mechanism for recourse at the expiry of the guarantee. This will instil confidence in the public.
184.108.40.206 The Committee observed that some banks have stopped the use of ATMs, much to the prejudice of the banking public. It is recommended that the Central Bank and the banking sector ensure that bond notes are dispensed from the ATMs.
220.127.116.11 In order to address lack of confidence, the Committee recommends that the Executive continues with its publicity campaigns so that all the concerns being raised by the citizens are addressed to achieve total acceptance.
18.104.22.168 The Committee recommends that the Governor of the Central Bank publishes, on a quarterly basis, information relating to the value of exports generated and the corresponding value of bond notes and coins paid to the exporters.
22.214.171.124 The Executive should also consider establishing a Committee which includes representatives of business and labour which limits the issuance of bond notes.
3.1.2 The public must be urged to continue using plastic money so as to ease pressure on cash requirements. To allay the fears of the informal sector, the Government should provide assurance that they will continue to have access to the foreign currency. The Committee therefore recommends that the informal traders should be encouraged to open bank accounts to facilitate access to foreign currency.
126.96.36.199 The Committee recommends that measures be put in place to ensure that legitimate travellers and business people including the informal traders have access to the US dollar. However there is need for limits to be set for withdrawals abroad in line with the minimum daily limits, as measures to curb externalisation by unscrupulous dealers.
188.8.131.52 The Committee observed that Government’s policy inconsistencies and lack of understanding of the bond notes on the part of some government officials and citizens has not helped the situation. The resultant overall effect has been lack of confidence with the bond notes. It is therefore recommended that Government continues with its publicity campaigns.
4.1 Subject to the above recommendations, the Committee supports the approval of the RBZ Amendment Bill. I thank you.
HON. DR. MASHAKADA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I rise
also to proffer a few comments on this Bill that was tabled sometime back. First of all, I need to support the remarks by the Chairperson of my Committee on the problems that people are facing in accessing their monies in the banks.
The introduction of the bond note has not brought the necessary or the much needed relief to the consumers and the general public. We all know that the queues are getting longer every day, it is a common cause. One would hope that the introduction of the bond notes and coins would ease the general liquidity crisis. From a macro-economic point of view, this issuance of bond notes in dribs and drubs will affect aggregate demand. You know, for economic activity to respond so that we stimulate production and economic activity, there has to be aggregate demand which is backed by adequate purchasing power.
If people do not have adequate purchasing power, adequate demand becomes depressed and it is also a backlash on the general economic activity in the country. That can slow growth. As you know Mr. Speaker Sir, one of the fast moving or fast growing sectors is the commercial and financial services. These sectors depend on transacting on spending and if that is limited, that can invariably affect the level of growth in the country.
Coming to the Bill itself, I must say that the character of the bond notes depends on two things, which this House must understand. The first thing is that it is anchored by a US$200 million Afriximbank facility. I would have expected this House to be provided with the term sheet of the Afriximbank to inspire confidence so that we know that this bond note is indeed confined to the US$200 million Afriximbank facility. So, I will call upon the Minister to try and provide that term sheet so that we can tell the people whom we represent that this money is not just being printed. It is actually based on something, which is the US$200 million
The second thing is that the bond note is premised on a 5% export incentive. That was the original thinking or logic behind the introduction of the bond note. The original thinking was not to make it a general currency for everybody. It was to issue it out as an export incentive, which would then percolate in the financial system as and when exporters are paid, but that is not the case. So, in this Bill you will find that the issue of export incentive is silent. The Bill is silent on the original question of the introduction of the bond notes. It does not refer to the export incentive at all. It is now treating bond notes as Zimbabwean Dollars, asking this House to embrace the introduction of new legal tender, which is the Zimbabwean Dollar.
It detracts from the original thrust of export incentive. I thought the Minister would re-couch the Bill so that it reflects the original intention that it is going to be a 5% export incentive. As the Bill stands, it is just like any other currency that is being introduced which is not based on any export incentive.
The other comment I have is on Clause 4. I am not a lawyer, but I am not too sure whether a law can be applied retrospectively. We have advocates here, they will educate us. The other comment Hon. Minister is on the interpretation itself. I refer you to the clause, the definition of a unit of a bond note, you say it means a unit of one dollar (1$) or multiple thereof in which a bond note is denominated. What about coins which are less than one dollar (1$). I think the definition should make it clear that it is a unit of a cent not a dollar because the minimum unit in a bond note is the cents and then the dollars.
The other comment is on Clause 4 (3) where you say that bond notes issued by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe shall be legal tender in all transactions in Zimbabwe as if each unit of a bond note is exchangeable. ‘As if’ it would appear like it is fiction. I am sure you can re-couch it to reflect the parity that you were talking about.
If you say ‘as if’ it really defeats the confidence. Same applies to
Clause 4 (4), when you say that it will be deemed to be equivalent to; it is equivalent to. It cannot be deemed. I hope you can address these technical issues which I have raised.
HON. ZIYAMBI: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I rise to add my voice on the Reserve Bank Amendment Bill. I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing the Bill to Parliament, for rectifying a situation that has been left unattended to since dollarisation. When I came to this House, I brought a few United States dollars for the House to see.
Hon. Ziyambi showed the House the few dollars.
These notes Mr. Speaker Sir, if you attempt to take them outside the country, they do not have any value. What we have been doing as a country, we have been using these dollars to circulate in the country, devaluing them and denying the country money for balance of payment support. So, what the Minister has done is trying to secure these dollars in a state that if you want to buy something outside the country we can use the dollar in a usable form. If you go to the bank today, you will get US dollars which are so soiled that you cannot even do anything with them. We have been allowing this situation to go on, using the precious foreign currency that we have to circulate in the country to buy mazhanje, tomatoes and when we want to use the very same dollars to purchase precious things which we do not manufacture in this country, we could not.
So, I want to thank the Hon. Minister for bringing the Bill and for trying to rectify the situation. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to also say we need a lot of controls. If you go to other countries and you want to withdraw maybe $10,000, you are given a nice seat and a cup of coffee while they verify why you want such a huge amount of money. In this country, when we dollarized, you could walk into the bank and withdraw $100,000 with no questions asked and that bled the country. I therefore implore the Minister to look into all those issues so that we have the foreign currency that we need to buy those things that we do not have, the things that are critical for the functioning of the country and remove all the leakages that have been there.
Another area, as alluded to by Hon. Mashakada is that when bond notes were being introduced, so much emphasis was given to the 5% export incentive to the extent that an ordinary person who is not an exporter was in limbo. They were not sure what bond notes were being introduced for. I think the advertisements should be crafted in such a manner that they reflect that this is our currency and the foreign currency that we have is stored somewhere and you are going to use these bond notes, which are equivalent to the US$. The moment that we start using these superlatives that this is for exporters and so on, my grandmother who is in the rural areas will not understand it. When you then try to give them that money, you confuse them. So let us tell people this is our currency and we are trying to rectify the situation. We applaud the Minister for that. I also think we need a situation where we have to move away from this export incentive idea and we gather those exporters and give them this message, it will be helpful to the country.
The other point that I want to speak about is that we had so much advertisements about the introduction of the bond notes. We created this anxiety and expectation and when they were released, we only saw $2 and a few coins. When you create this high demand and then you have trickling money coming into the system, you end up with a situation where a lot of people are now sleeping in bank queues. Maybe the Minister can correct that through some form of education, telling people of the gradual introduction as opposed to the way it was advertised. However, I think it was something which was overdue and we should applaud the Minister for doing that and encourage him to keep on introducing measures that will ensure that the economy improves. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: I also want to add my voice to the RBZ
Amendment Bill. I want to start by thanking the Hon. Members that spoke before me. This bond note that is being introduced – there are a few critical issues that need to be brought out, in particular, that we are holding in trust against a guarantee of US$200 million loan from Afrexim Bank. What immediately comes to mind is that whatever loan we get accrues interest and that needs to be brought into account. How that interest is being liquidated needs also to be spoken about because as long as we are accruing interest against the US$, it means we are losing value on our bond note. Over a long period of time, it then does not become 1:1 just based on the interest. Assuming the RBZ is going to sustain the convertibility of that bond note over a certain period, it needs to be explained to the nation what it is that is going to be used as a convertibility sustenance mechanism for our bond note. The sustenance can never be in perpetuity but can only come to a certain point.
However, the speaker that spoke before me alluded to the fact that there is some US$ that cannot be converted into any other currency outside the borders of this country and they can only be valuable in Zimbabwe. Given that scenario, the introduction of bond notes has been long overdue and it should have come in yesterday because we were engaged in self-servitude, meaning slavery or bondage of one’s dignity and person. We were using false currency. We were using bond notes that were printed in a US$ form. The US$ that we use in Zimbabwe can never be used anywhere else. Try changing them in a bureau de change or try exporting them to South Africa against the amount that is exportable at the airport or any borders. We are allowed US$500 as a holiday allowance but you cannot use that anywhere. In that way, this introduction of bond notes was long overdue.
I need to also deal with Section 4, where there is a question of application in retrospect. I believe in all honesty that we sat and burnt midnight candles when we were crafting and passing the labour law, which was applied in retrospect. I earnestly believe that what cannot be applied retrospectively is capital punishment. I am not a learned friend but I hope to become one very soon. So, it is my fervent view and opinion that the law in this effect can be applied retrospectively because it is devoid of capital punishment.
I also need to say that as a general rule of thumb, it has been said that the introduction of the bond note was as a 5% incentive on exports. I agree with Hon. Ziyambi to the effect that if it is alluded to as an export incentive, it becomes rather a bit on the restrictive side. However, its introduction is very important. How the Minister can bring about other ways of introducing the bond note that is broad based is now up to him as a financial guru. The issue of just saying 5% export incentive rather becomes a bit on the restrictive side in this way Mr. Speaker because as we speak, gold is the only exportable or tradable commodity. It is my belief that assuming there was no introduction of the bond note, easily in Zimbabwe we can introduce what is called the gold coin. The gold coin can be introduced because Zimbabwe is endowed with ubiquitous amount of mineral wealth. It is therefore easy for us to utilise those gold mines in particular, to produce gold coins. Al beit, we have tried and are trying to go the way all other global players have gone, introducing any other form of currency which is not gold coin or gold oriented by attaching our gold to a note called the bond note and US$ note – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Muri kuda kuti ndisadebater here. …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order. If
you are debating please, you do not have to communicate with Hon.
Members who are on the other side.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the protection Mr. Speaker and
I agree with you that this is my turn. I believe in all honest that if we bite the bullet as a nation, we can introduce the gold coin because gold is the only tradable commodity that is acceptable globally, that all other jurisdictions are buying and putting in their volts to hedge against their currencies getting weaker day by day. I believe this is a stop gap measure but going forward, if we include the marginalised gold producers Mr. Speaker, and start first and foremost by removing the issue called alienship and register everybody in Zimbabwe so that they all have identity documents and birth certificates in order that as they grow into artisanal mining field, they are well documented and can be given an incentive. They can be brought into the mainstream of the economy because it is these people that are not documented that are producing a lot of gold.
The RBZ Governor in his Mid-term Monetary Statement,
alluded to the fact that, of the 684 million produced in terms of gold Mr. Speaker, 40 – 60% of that was produced by small scale and artisanal miners. These people are not well documented. Also, in his Mid-Term Monetary Statement at some point, the Minister of Finance and Economic Development alluded to the fact that there was more than 500 000 of these artisanal and small scale miners. These are the people that are bringing in the gold, which gold we are exporting in order to introduce the bond note. This Mr. Speaker, is an abstract way of looking at it.
We need to be forward thinking and see exactly where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going. These are the people that if they continue to be disenfranchised, then the nation will be at a standstill. How do I propose that the 5% export incentive gets to be paid to these people because they are scattered all over in terms of their modus operandi. They are also not well-documented. If these people are not paid their 5% export incentive, what is going to obtain is that the money which is supposed to be paid to these people who are a pillar in terms of the economy of this country, it is going to be pilfered and engaged in illicit outflows by Fidelity Printers officers. These are the people that are buying that gold from artisanal miners, aware and cognisant of the fact that they do not come back to claim that money; aware and also cognisant of the fact that these people do not have the requisite accounts where this money can be paid into. They can pilfer that money using other means that are sophisticated.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what I also need to put in as a second proposal is that there are bus operators that currently carry a lot of passengers into Zimbabwe which request foreign currency for the payment of fares into Zimbabwe. As long as the receipting of that money is welldocumented, I ask that the Minister of Finance accept those receipts and monies banked in local banks for those bus operators who would have imported US$ through passengers and through physical cash which is in foreign currency form. I ask that this be considered as an export oriented approach so that these people also qualify for a 5% export incentive that is paid in the form of bond notes.
These were the two proposals that I had and I now call for the enforcement of the usage of these bond notes. There has not been acceptance from the Asian community, in particular, the Chinese Mr. Speaker Sir. They have not gotten into a position of accepting bond notes as a legal form of tender in terms of cash. They will still sideline bond notes and only accept US$. As long as they are in Zimbabwe, it is accepted that the Minister of Finance is the overall in charge in terms of finances.
I ask now, therefore, that he enforces the usage of these bond notes in the Asian community and also, whilst I am at it, that he enforces that all the Asian community be bankable. They should then take our bond notes and US$ into financial institutions which is also aligned to the introduction of this Bill. He should also introduce a
law that forces everybody to be bankable so that we can embrace plastic money and technology, in particular our Asian community that is not bankable. Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate undisturbed, unequivocal, effectively and efficiently with a voice that is going to make sure that this law is introduced.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Mr. Speaker, I am not going to say much. I have stood up to thank the Hon. Minister. That thing called bond note was introduced late, we are debating on a currency which is already in circulation. People are already banking using the bond notes and they are so excited. Instead, they do not understand what we are doing here discussing about the bond note. As Members of Parliament, we should just make sure the Bill on bond notes sails through so that our constituents visit their rural areas with cash. We should not continue to discuss the currency that is already in circulation because the bond note and the bond coin is just the same
– [Laughter.] – so, I do not see any need to discuss this.
We need to ask Hon. Chinamasa how it is possible for someone who is penniless to be given a 5% incentive after exporting. What is the reason for that? It is supposed to be one dollar to one dollar. If one is owed a dollar, they should be given that dollar. This issue of a 5% incentive is not what we want, this should be scrapped. Where are you getting that money? – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Excuse me, where is the money coming from? We are saying, those who would have exported should just be given the amount of money equivalent to the value of their exports. I stood up to support this Bill and I therefore ask Hon. Chinamasa to move for the passing of this Bill. I thank you.
HON. GABBUZA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I just have a few points that I want to emphasise – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members, let
us hear the Hon. Member in silence please.
HON. GABBUZA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I strongly believe that the more I listen to people talk about bond notes, the more I become more sceptical on whether it is going to solve the intended problems. Bond notes are supposed to solve our cash crisis, but I do not think that only bond notes will be a solution.
Therefore, there are certain things that I think the Minister must consider. Why do I have scepticism on bond notes being a solution to our cash problems? Firstly, we are giving incentives of 5% to the chrome industry and the gold sector, which are the only things that are there in terms of exports. If you look at a gold or chrome plant, even if you give them a 5% incentive, if the capacity of the processing plant is to produce 10 tonnes, no matter how much incentives you offer, that plant will not produce any excess, so that 5% will not result in extra production at all. The plant is built to process a certain amount of commodity or mineral output per month or per day.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we are also incentivising things like tobacco, which is seasonal. After we have reaped all our tobacco, what else will bring in foreign currency? It is a seasonal crop and once it is reaped and sold, it is done. Therefore, we will only earn foreign currency from tobacco over a certain period.
There are some people who believe that industry is improving, that is capacity utilisation, I was listening to the Minister of Industry and Commerce the other day. Mr. Speaker Sir, my recollection is that, there is very little capacity utilisation that has improved, mainly because it was said that we are now producing cooking oil. We are not producing cooking oil at all. We are actually repackaging what is produced outside. If we talk of Delta Beverages, they are one of the major industries that remain in the country, but what are they doing? Everything is coming from outside the country, including the bottle tops. What is locally produced is only water. Mr. Speaker Sir, as long as we just think about bond notes and incentives, it will not work. I think the Minister’s focus must be to target industries and
see how best we can improve our industries in terms of productivity.
Incentivising three companies that continue to produce will not work.
I wish the Hon. Minister would one day find time to move around Bulawayo, most of the industrial complexes, especially on a weekend, have been turned to church halls now. There is very little activity going on.
Mr. Speaker Sir, what should we do? My proposal is that, because we are literally importing everything in the kitchen, the Minister should consider targeting a few kitchen commodities that are used by women when they cook in the kitchen, because those are the major things that we are importing. They should then introduce an import tax, even if it means 5%. I was doing my computation and consulting with other economists. Our import bill is about US$6 billion and if we tax 5% on US$6 billion, we get about US$300 000 and that money is channelled to local industries so that there is improvement in their capacity utilisation. We will reopen those industries and we give them the modalities on how it can be done.
However, if we unveil US$300 000 per year, we will have more than 100 industries producing. Once our own industries start producing, we will see them exporting. We have good quality commodities like Mazoe which is not comparable to any product in the region. However, we need to capacitate those industries so that they export and definitely, we will have more foreign currency.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the other thing is about ZISCO Steel. I have always argued that if ZISCO Steel is resuscitated, we will solve almost half of our problems in the country. This is because if ZISCO Steel starts operating, automatically Hwange Colliery will start moving and the National Railways of Zimbabwe will also start operating. What will ZISCO Steel do? If it starts operating, the fertilizer price of ammonium nitrate will definitely go down because ZISCO Steel subsidises Sable Chemicals through buying oxygen. The mining industry will start operating, the cost of operations will be reduced because most of the dynamites used in the industries now are being imported from such countries as China, South Africa and others, which is moving foreign currency outside the country. However, if ZISCO Steel was operational, explosives automatically follow because they are a by-product of the hydrogen produced at Sable Chemicals where Sable supports ZISCO Steel. That will be helpful to us.
The other proposals that I want to make had been emphasised on by Hon. Nduna. If you move around town right now looking for the only business places that are ticking – If you go to Mahommed Mussa, I suspect they could be cashing in US$100 000 or more as turnover per day. However, the question is, is that money circulating in our banks? If we bank US$100 000 cash from
Mahommed Mussa alone, will there be a cash shortage in the banks. Go to the Gulf Complex along Chinhoyi Street and the shops along all those streets around the Gulf Complex, all the shops are Chinese shops and there is a hive of business. Definitely, all the money being circulated there is not being channelled to the banks. If they were being channelled to the banks, would we still be having queues of people waiting for money outside banks? I think those are some of the things that the Minister must try to consider and see if we can possibly mop up all the money from people who are not keeping money in the banks so that it is allowed to circulate. Then of course the issue of targeting industries, incentivizing four working industries does not work. Let us resuscitate those industries that have collapsed. We do not need to put Government money, let us charge people at the border. People are importing, put an import tax; that import tax then goes to the industries, the local industries. I am sure that will definitely work if we try all those proposals. Those are the few things that I thought I could put on the table.
HON. CHAMISA: Thank you very much. I rise to make a
very short presentation. I want to make a short presentation but just to take note of certain issues, bearing in mind the fact that it is already an afterthought to be debating this very important Bill. I think as has been indicated by certain Hon. Members of Parliament, the bond is already out there. What is important is to indicate that in future, let this be a lesson to our esteemed Government that at no time should we usurp the powers of Parliament. At no time should we run away from constitutionally defined contours of law making.
We are aware that the bond is already out there. In fact, by the admission of the Minister - through this very important Bill, it is indicated on page one, in the memorandum to Parliament that the opportunities taken to validate the issuance, just to say to validate the issuance of bond notes is an indication and admission by the Minister by the Ministry that the introduction and issuance of the bond note hitherto has been invalid. That is the language and I am simply doing statutory interpretation of what is already contained in the
Statute and we are simply saying this because in terms of Section
134, Parliament’s law making responsibilities are not supposed to be delegated at any given point in time which argument was made so ably and so effectively and so smoothly.
This is very important Hon. Speaker to say in future, we expect our Ministers to respect Parliament function of law making. If we had been approached by the Minister before the bond note had been issued out, we were going to give the wisdom to the Minister to avoid the obvious pitfalls we are not seeing when it comes to the way the bond note is being issued out and also is being doled out in the circumstances.
It is very important that we follow our Constitution, we follow our law. I know that there has been an argument to say by using the temporary Presidential Powers Act and those regulations; we were on all fours in terms of the law. Certainly, not because there is a limited framework within which we are supposed to use that Act and that law. What we did was an abuse, what we did was to use an inappropriate instrument for an appropriate responsibility that was supposed to be transacted.
Let me just quickly say that there are hygiene issues that have to be dealt with so that we are able to assist the Minister and the Government to move forward when we want to make sure that things happen in a particular context. You are aware that we managed to dig out our minerals to the tune of US$15b, now we did not manage to account for that US$15b. If we cannot manage to account for what we dig can we account for what we print? That is a fundamental question, it is a hygiene issue to say if we have not been able to account for certain things; if we have not been able to be responsible as a Government, can we therefore become responsible in our law making, responsible in our introduction of this currency. It is a fundamental question; it is a hygiene issue that has to be dealt with.
You are aware that when you transact a resource, particularly a currency, it is a transaction of promise, it is transaction of confidence. Is that confidence sufficiently stimulated in the economy, certainly not? Is that promise evidently there, certainly not. I can tell you that not just Members of Parliament or Ministers but ordinary citizens have a deficit of confidence in the bond note. Now, when you do not have confidence in what you are transacting, the net effect is that you have now erected a false accumulation model. When a person gets a bond note, they are not going to keep that bond note for purposes of storing value or transacting value. What they are simply going to do is make sure that they transact it to the next person then they look at property and other immovables which are real measures of value. That is very important because as you go forward, you are now going to be transacting fiction and we do not want the Minister to come here with a very important law making responsibility so that we come here to legislate fiction. That fiction is going to play out and is going to have a boomerang effect on the economy as we go forward.
I mentioned the issue of hygiene issues. We must also address the issue – if you look at it, we had a currency of our own, the ZIM dollar, it disappeared. Now we are bringing in a bond note, you have not addressed the subjective and objective factors that caused the disappearance of our own currency. All of a sudden you have a bond note, what caused the disappearance of our original ZIM dollar has not been addressed. So, Hon. Minister what we do not want is to come and law make in futility to come and law make with fatality, to come and law make without a proper recourse to things that we know are going to sustainable, not just at law, but factual.
So, it is very important that as we make the law we must also be circumspect on the objective and subjective conditions and factors around the disappearance of our beloved ZIM dollar. We see this bond note coming; again, it is going to go down the drain just the same way the ZIM dollar was actually affected because we have not addressed the real cause. We are students of the cause and effect, we just do not want to come here and now tinker on palliatives on peripherals and we look at cosmetic issues without addressing the core of the issue, the core of the matter which are issues of confidence, issues of governance, issues of making sure that we move away from certain fiscal conduct and fiscal behaviour that is not in line with what is expected of a modern economy.
Hon. Speaker Sir, there are two more observation as I conclude; there is the lack of a sunset clause or a sunset provision in the Act. Under normal circumstances, this is a bond note; we understand that it is a temporary arrangement. If it is a temporary arrangement it is very important Hon. Speaker that we are able to deal with these issues in a particular fashion and manner as to address fundamental consequences that are going to arise as a result of this development. If you look at it, if we do not have a sunset provision or clause, what will happen is that there is an insinuation of permanence of the existence of the bond. There is actually a connotation; it connotes infinity to say the bond note is going to be there until forever, which is problematic. As far as we are concerned, the bond note has been posited to us as an ephemeral arrangement as a stopgap measures, as something that is being done to make sure that there is a bridging gap between the current circumstances and our ideal situation.
If you do not have that kind of a sunset clause that will terminate to say it is going to be effective for a particular period of time or in time, it then brings problems of an open cheque, carte blanche that is given to the Minister, permanence which is false because it can never be permanent. This is supposed to be addressed in the law. We do not see the sunset clause in this Act and it has a problem because that sunset clause is important. In fact the Minister is given in clause 3, absolute powers to then come up with instruments that are then going to make sure that he does so regulate in whatever manner he would wish or deem necessary. That becomes a problem because then we are abrogating our responsibilities to law make to the benefit of citizens in a manner that is consistent with good practices.
Now, the last point, Hon. Speaker Sir, as I conclude is the issue of controls and limits. Even the Chairperson of the Portfolio
Committee made mention of the fact that there is need for this limit.
Why should you limit the resources that I worked for? If I have US$20 000 in the bank, let me have access to my US$20 000. If I have US$40 000 in the bank, let me have access to my US$40 000.
Why should you make a way of limiting and controlling?
Now, this is where we have a problem, Hon. Speaker Sir. You cannot have command agriculture, command economy, command currency – everything you want to command. There is a problem in commanding certain things. The economy does not respect commandments of politicians or policy makers. It respects commandments of the market, of course with the necessary State intervention. But now, the problem we have is that we have what we call economic dirigisme. Economic dirigisme is whereby the Government is so bent on controlling and intervening in the economy. It is drunk with the stupor of intervention; that is the problem we have, because you find that right now, we want to come in to control, we want to come in to limit. It will not work. We must move away from a dirigiste mindset so that we begin to allow our people to work hard and earn a living without all those controls, without all those limitations.
Last but not least, Minister, I would have expected, as we discussed, through you Hon. Speaker Sir, if you had brought an amendment to say, we are going to make it compulsory for everyone including ZIMRA, including ZINARA, to have swipe machines and point-of-sale machines, I would say this is a progressive amendment. Let us amend our laws to make it legally compulsory for us to use point-of-sale machines. Even for a barber, for a hairdresser, let us have a point-of-sale machine. Why? By doing so you are legislating e-commerce, by doing so you are legislating e-transactions, by doing so you are legislating plastic money. Now, we do not have a sufficient mechanism to make sure that we have a plastic money platform that is supported at law, so that everyone is made to be on that platform. Even lobola will be paid e-lobola. That is the progressive thing to be done so that we are able to put everything on line.
Having said that, I want to say, already our hands are functus officio. Our hands are tied because the Minister has already a merit and what we are supposed to simply do is to endorse a marriage that is already there. In fact, he has two children in the family and he is coming to us to say, can you allow me a wife. We have nothing to say because there is evidence of some marital transaction that has taken place, these two children. Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please, order!
Honorable, I am saying order here. Hon. Member, order please.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I represent a constituency and I have got the views of my constituents so, I have got every right to debate – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I cannot proceed if you continue to make noise and you will delay yourselves.
Mr. Speaker Sir, from the report that was given by the Committee that collected the views of the people, it looks like the majority of the people were against the bond notes. So if I could have my own way, those people who are supporting bond notes deserve to be killed by a firing squad because they are going against the will of the people of Zimbabwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Mr. Chairman, can I be protected?
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. The Hon. Member is using unparliamentary language to the effect that he wants those members who are supporting the Bill to be put on a firing squad. It is uparliamnentary language which should not be allowed in a democratic society.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, if you are
short of facts there is no point of you standing up to debate. Let other people debate. Be factual.
HON. MAONDERA: I was saying it in a metaphorical way.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Be factual and debate.
HON. MAONDERA: So it is important that we continue to go along the will of the people, what the people said about the bond notes and it is also important Hon. Chair, that – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Order! Order please.
HON. MAONDERA: The other aspect, Hon. Speaker, is the quality of paper of the bond notes – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please.
HON. HOLDER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir. I do not think that the Hon. Member understands the Bill. So, Hon. Speaker, the problem that we are having is they are making a lot of noise. We are not hearing anything and he is repeating himself.
Astika, kuda musombodhiya I do not know – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please, Hon.
HON. MAONDERA: My point is that, before we brought in this Bill before this august House we should have done our thorough homework about the quality of the bond notes – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Hon.
Members, give him a chance.
HON. MAONDERA: We should have done our homework first on the quality of the bond notes – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, order
please. Order please! Hon. Member, if you have no facts – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order please. What is it?
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (HON. CHINAMASA): Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to thank…
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, I was elected by the people of Glen Norah. I have got a constitutional and democratic right to debate. I am not one to accept – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order please. Order Hon.
Members. Let us hear him …
HON. MAONDERA: No, it is not fair, it is not fair - [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. CHAMISA: I have a point of order Mr. Speaker. I think this is a very special appeal. I do not think that the Hon.
Member is going to take that much time. If he could just be allowed
Hon. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Honestly, I do not think he will take time. We must respect each other.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order! Hon. Members to
my right, order please. Hon. Member, you may resume your debate but I do not think you have got a lot to say. Just say what you need to say and sit down.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I was raising
a point that before we brought in this piece of legislation, we should have done a lot of home work – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please.
HON. MAONDERA: We should have done a lot of homework because as it stands right now, people from my constituency are crying about the quality of the bond note. So, I am urging the Hon. Minister to go back to the drawing board – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Resume
your seat. Order please. Hon. Members, you are wasting your own good time. Let this man finish his debate. He does not have much words to say. Give him two minutes then that is it. Hon. Member, I am giving you two minutes to wind up your debate.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you for protecting me Hon.
Speaker. Maybe my last point will be to urge the Minister to take his time next time when they want to bring laws of national importance so that as Members of Parliament – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members to my
right, please you are not in a beer hall.
HON. MAONDERA: “Vana Keith Guzah vanongogona
kutaura parally, havasati vambotaura muno.” – [Laughter.] –
HON. GUZAH: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is important for the Hon. Member of this House of Parliament to speak issues that are relative to what is being discussed here. He continuously raises issues that are not of paramount importance to this House. He must stick to issues that are relevant and critical to this discourse. Thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Order please. In fact, he has not said anything. So can you speak something please.
HON. MAONDERA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I was just concluding. I urge the Minister to give this House ample time for us to get to understand. You will be shocked Hon. Speaker that some Hon. Members do not know what you are talking about; they do not know what this law entails. If we are given ample time; we do not want to be pigeonholed so that we deliberate and consult our constituencies and pass a law which is of national importance. I want to thank you very much. In future, I think people should listen to the voice of reason. Thank you.
HON. NDEBELE: Hon. Speaker, I just have one point. If you could allow me that. Hon. Speaker, allow me to draw an analogy between what is happening now and what I believe happened during the Soviet dictatorship of Stalin – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, in my reading, I came across this. Stalin is said to have walked into a
Politburo meeting with a live chicken. Before members of the
Politburo, he started plucking out feathers from that live chicken one by one. That chicken quelled in pain; it was bleeding. When he had finished plucking all the feathers, he then pulled out pellets from his pocket and started feeding the chicken. That chicken ended up sitting on his lap and as he walked around the room, the chicken followed him. My point Hon. Speaker is, when you then feed a chicken whose pain you have caused, it forgets that you are the very person that caused its particular pain. This is the very point where we are. The children of Zimbabwe are crying out loud in pain – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - in hunger and sickness and our beloved Government is feeding them bond notes.
The children of Zimbabwe as we heard in that report are helpless. We all have no choice, including you Members of
Parliament. You have no choice but to accept the bond notes – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] - So, for us to sit in this House and think that the very people who caused the demise of this economy will bring in any normal recovery is a waste of time.
Hon. Speaker, I come from a very political family and I am happy. I am a repository of all things, good and bad that have happened in this country – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
Order please. Hon. Member, just go to the point.
HON. NDEBELE: Yes, this is my point. Every time these Temporary Presidential Powers are invoked, the Government uses those powers to railroad very painful things upon the people of Zimbabwe.
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker Sir, we are debating an important Bill. The Hon. Member is talking about his family and about chickens. Such things do not concern us here. We seek your protection Mr. Speaker that we confine our debates to what has been presented and not for him to speechify to us about his family.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! Hon.
Member, you said you have a point to make. So, please one point.
HON. NDEBELE: That is the same point I am working on – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Hon. Speaker, the last bit is, I have noticed over time that every time this Government has something very bad and difficult to drive through, it uses the Presidential Powers Act, so clearly, the bond notes are coming under a very unhygienic situation. I remember Hon. Speaker, that the last time this was ever used was when the Law and Order Maintenance
Act was used to declare war upon Matabeleland – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -This was done outside Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, if you have
nothing to debate, there is nothing wrong in you to just sit down and keep quiet. We are debating about currency here.
HON. ZIYAMBI: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. I think the Hon. Member needs to withdraw his last statement that
Presidential Powers were used to massacre people in Matebeleland.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I was going to ask him to
do that. Hon. Member, you may withdraw that, this has nothing to do with the debate.
HON. NDEBELE: It has, everything, it has all the tingling, no, I stand by my point. I will not withdraw that.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Please withdraw that.
HON. NDEBELE: No, I will not.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You may withdraw that.
HON. NDEBELE: I am not taking that back, I stand by that- [HON. ZIYAMBI: That is a reckless statement, directed at the Head of State and we cannot allow that. That statement is very inflammatory; who does he think he is?] – No, it is not reckless, I stand by that, it is a fact – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
Some Hon. Members, including Hon. Ndebele, having approached the Chair.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon.
Ndebele, may you withdraw your statement so that we proceed with the debate.
HON. NDEBELE: If that does not offend against my privilege as a Member of this House, I withdraw and I do not wish to proceed with this debate.
HON. TARUSENGA: On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, there is no quorum in the House in terms of Standing Order Number 56(1).
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order please.
Pursuant to Standing Order Number 56, we now have a quorum of 70 Hon. Members here.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER adjourned the House
without putting any question in terms of Standing Order Number 51
(1) (a) at Five Minutes to Seven o’clock p.m. until Friday, 23rd December, 2016.