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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 22 October 2015 42-17
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 22nd October, 2015
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two O’clock p.m.
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
HON. MATUKE: I move that Orders of the Day Numbers 1, 2 and 3 be stood over until the rest of the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
PRESIDENTIAL SPEECH: DEBATE ON ADDRESS
Fourth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the
Question again proposed.
HON. G. M. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is with great sense of humility that I rise today to present my maiden speech as the ZANU PF representative for Pumula Constituency in the National Assembly.
Madam Speaker, I am poignantly aware of the historic significance of this moment both at personal and political level. I would like, therefore, to register my indebtedness and gratitude to my revolutionary party ZANU PF for giving me the honour to hoist its colours during the by-elections that I recently won resoundingly, thus debunking – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – the myth that urban constituencies in general and Bulawayo in particular, are no go areas for ZANU PF. This victory was not the outcome of individual brilliance, but a culmination of multifaceted collective efforts within our beloved party ZANU PF, led by the visionary, His Excellency President R. G.
Madam Speaker, it is in this regard that I salute His Excellency the
President, Head of State and Government and Commander-in-Chief of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces for his eloquent articulation...- [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Can we have
HON. G. M. NCUBE:…of our legislative agenda as encapsulated in our nation building trajectory during the opening of the Third Session of the Eighth Parliament. His incisive rendition drawing from the ZIM
ASSET Economic Blueprint as recently buttressed by the Ten Point
Economic Plan explicitly underlined the sustainability of our
Government’s pro-poor development thrust. He signposted the road to national economic recovery by pinpointing those key areas that require expedient attention – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I am
appealing to Hon. Members that those at the back of the House need to hear what the Hon. Member is debating. I thought you would lower your whispers, but you are calling across the table. Please, behave yourselves.
HON. G. M. NCUBE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The raft of measures outlined by His Excellency the President will yield tangible results if all Zimbabweans realise that nobody owes us a living. Indeed, it is an open secret that in our political expediency, some of our compatriots in the recent past, actively agitated for the imposition of economic sanctions – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – That have played havoc with our national economy and the pauperised majority of our citizens. It is the vulnerable within our society that have witnessed untold suffering and further marginalisation. It is my sincere hope that these countervailing forces within our body politic have removed the cobwebs from their eyes to be able to prioritise and promote the national interest instead of pursuing narrow parochial partisan considerations. Madam Speaker, Pumula Constituency consists of urban and periurban areas – [HON. MUTSEYAMI: Vanozviziva] - The urban part of the constituency comprises of Pumula Old, Pumula North, Pumula East and the sprawling suburb of Pumula South. It is in Pumula South where the new suburb called Emthunzini is located and up to date, it has not been provided with running water and electricity. I call upon the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate and the Ministry of Energy and Power Development to expeditiously look at these issues burdening Emthunzini in order to ameliorate the living conditions of the people of this new suburb. Pumula Old is one of the oldest suburbs of Bulawayo whose population has a large number of aged people. I appeal to
Government to introduce an inclusive old people’s assistance fund as the current support programme seems discriminatory and inadequate. Hon. Madam Speaker, there are also a number of orphans and child headed families due to the HIV scourge who are crying out for urgent assistance through Government together with Non-Governmental Sector…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order, Hon. Members
from Masvingo, you cannot hold a meeting here. Can the Hon. Member please proceed?
HON. G. M. NCUBE: Hon. Madam Speaker, in Pumula North,
East and South, people are facing perennial water cuts and hence I am appealing to the Ministry of Environment, Water and Climate to assist by sinking more boreholes so as to alleviate the water crises bedeviling these communities. I applaud Government for declaring Bulawayo as a Special Economic Zone. It is hoped therefore that this progressive move will help in creating employment in the City of Kings and Queens.
The peri-urban part of Pumula Constituency was established more than 50 years ago. I thank the authorities there for their continued recognition of the peri-urban communities as the areas now have school facilities through Government support. However, Hon. Madam Speaker, I would like to appeal to Government to further assist these communities by making sure that those in need of electricity access it through the intervention of the Rural Electrification Programme. The water infrastructure of these peri-urban areas is now dilapidated as traces of rusts can be seen in the water that they drink. This requires urgent attention through the relevant authorities so as to prevent an imminent outbreak of waterborne diseases.
Hon. Madam Speaker, it is encouraging to note that the provision of quality education still remains a key priority to the President as enunciated in the country’s National Development Agenda. I applaud Government for the work that it is undertaking in the context of the
Education Amendment Bill that intends to align the Education Act of 2006 with the Constitution. It is hoped that the review of the entire primary and secondary school curriculum will render the country’s education system appropriate for current and future development needs in our country.
Hon. Madam Speaker, the introduction of the Local Authorities
Bill will help to consolidate the Urban Councils Act and the Rural District Councils Act. Hopefully, this will also establish a tribunal to deal with disciplinary issues pertaining to councillors, mayors and chairpersons of councils. It is my considered view, that some councils of late have been plagued by managerial incompetence and corrupt tendencies.
Hon. Madam Speaker, it is pleasing to note that the President is staunchly seized with issues of gender related constitutional provisions, effective health care provisions, eradication of corruption in our society, ICT based applications and other Government programmes that seek to improve the lives of our people in general.
The introduction of the Bill to combine the War Veterans Act and the Ex Political Prisoners Detainees and Restrictees into one Act, now to also incorporate the War Collaborators, will go a long way to address the anomalies hitherto that existed in the current Act. Thousands of ZIPRA cadres who were in Botswana and Zambia camps were inadvertently excluded during the 1997 vetting exercise, and it is my hope Hon. Madam Speaker, that the Bill under consideration will encompass everybody who participated in the liberation struggle.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to pay tribute to Dr. Sikhanyiso Ndlovu whose untimely death has robbed us of a political mentor, a father and a leader. I remember when we came to Parliament, he hand-handled us and made sure we were properly chaperoned and ushered into the august House. Even though we were a bundle of nerves and apprehensive, Dr. Ndlovu made sure that we took up our responsibilities in the House with due decorum. I salute the party, ZANU PF and the Government for recognising his outstanding national contribution by according him a well deserved National Hero status. We will surely miss him. May his dear soul rest in eternal peace!
I thank you – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
ECONOMIC LITERACY WORKSHOP
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to remind Hon.
Members that the bus to the workshop on Economic Literacy for Chairpersons and Members of Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) will leave Parliament at 0745 hours for Pandhari Lodge on Monday, 26th October, 2015.
Order, order. I also want to remind the Hon. Members that I will send out Hon. Members who are attending to their cellphones. This is a reminder, I do not want to send out anyone at the moment but I am just reminding you.
*HON. CHIKUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker, I also want to
add my voice to the Presidential Speech. I want to talk about the issue that he mentioned on land, when he said that there will be a land commission and this commission will take the place of the board. This commission will also assist in ending challenges and conflicts in terms of land. It will also enhance the land audit, it will also be assisted by the Gender Commission that will also ensure that men, women, boys and girls are also allocated land. In my area in Chimanimani, there is little land and each person ends up acquiring land in any province that he gets the land. The commission will assist to end such conflicts which are evident in the rural communities. The community will also assist in ensuring that utilisation of the land is done adequately by those who have the land. Those who are not using the land will also lose some or part of their land to those who are able to engage in farming.
The President, Cde. Robert Mugabe also mentioned the issue of education. He said that there should be adequate education. When ZIM ASSET came into being, it emphasised on people in various ministries which led to the building of houses, schools and other blocks. In other schools, there were no administration blocks but today in secondary schools that were opened after independence, administration blocks were built. For example in my area, we have 26 primary schools and 19 of them were opened and are adequate.
We are therefore saying that infrastructure development in schools should continue. In farming areas where there were no settlements in the past, there are now settlements and schools have been built to accommodate them. We are happy that the Government set aside some money to build the schools especially where rainfall is in abundance such that rivers become flooded and children fail to go to school on time.
The President also mentioned about an issue which really touched me, dissemination of information especially through Information Communication Technology (ICT). Today, there are some areas where one cannot access radio stations and telephone network is also not accessible.
There are also areas where post offices were built. The post offices used to assist a lot in terms of information dissemination, but in terms of their services, they have since deteriorated. When the President took it upon himself to give computers to schools, we were pleased and there are so many schools which were able to get these computers.
However, some schools in Chimanimani such as Chimanimani Secondary School were not able to get the computers. Post offices assisted the community a lot because people could access their pensions from there. The war veterans and those who travelled to collect their cash from National Social Security Authority (NSSA) also used to benefit from the services of the post office. However, the cash is no longer available and that needs to be looked into to ensure that the people from our communities are able to access their monies closer to their homes than to travel all the way to Mutare. Sometimes they travel to collect US$60 and they come back with US$40 after the rest of the money would have been gobbled by transport expenses.
There are people who have vehicles and would want to pay for their licences whilst others would want to pay for their electricity expenses. These people also have to travel all the way to Mutare to make their payments. My plea is that if only the Government could ensure that the functions of the post office are resuscitated within our rural communities. There is also need to avail computers to them to ensure that the post office can effectively render their services.
*HON. JOSHUA MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Firstly, I
would like to thank the President of this nation who gave the speech that was also heard by those who speak Karanga in Masvingo. When the people heard that the parliamentary seat was vacant, they sent me. It is also important for this House to know the meaning of Mwenezi. Mwene – (muridzi) owner, zi – Zimbabwe, meaning the owners of Zimbabwe – [Laughter] – The electorate has faith in the leadership that was pointed God himself.
After being given a powerful and resilient leader who gives us courage such that when we come across obstacles, we are encouraged to persevere to Canaan. For that reason, I stand here and applaud the
President of the nation on behalf of the people of my constituency in Mwenezi East. I also want to thank the President because 87% of our land was in possession of the white men and only 13% was what was allocated to us the blacks. God then allowed us to reclaim our land and we were able to be resettled.
The President of the nation is going to mourn the death of a lot of people. This is because all those who do not listen are like those 42 sons who failed to listen to the prophet of God. They were eaten by two female hyenas. This means that the hyenas shared 22 each. The President also mentioned about education and when I looked into this, I realised that we have also done well in terms of education.
When we reclaimed our land, there were satellite schools which were built totaling 46; eight secondary schools and 38 primary schools. Since the President encourages education, the challenge is on accessibility because most children cannot attend school during the rainy season and there is need to revisit this issue. Money has to be made available to ensure that these schools are built in time. If three months go by whilst it is raining, no education will take place.
In terms of infrastructure development, the President wants us to have adequate accommodation and to travel on good roads. Going back to Masvingo, we travel along Beitbridge road which is quite dangerous. The President highlighted the need for roads to be resurfaced and be improved. I also want to add that in terms of infrastructure, it will also assist our area in that once dams are built, there will be irrigation schemes. What makes me happy is that we did what God wanted us to do….
An Hon. Member having passed between the Chair and the Hon. Member speaking.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Matambanadzo,
you may not cross the line between the Chair and the Hon. Member speaking.
*HON. JOSHUA MOYO: Thank you. In my constituency, we
support our President and since 1980 up to date, there is no Opposition that has managed to penetrate our constituencies because they know that they are the owners of Zimbabwe. Furthermore, even though dams are not available, they also applaud what the President said. They grow rapoko and sorghum which are drought resistant. The Government once came up with a programme whereby they had competition for those who produced a lot of maize. So, we want to thank the work that has been done by God.
Lastly, I want to thank the Government for the Tokwe/Mukorsi dam. It is very helpful in our areas in Chingwizi. It will assist our children who go to South Africa looking for jobs. We look forward for the production of ethanol; even the small to medium businesses will also get businesses there. I want to thank and applaud our President that he will continue to bury the young whilst he is still alive through the guidance of the Almighty. –HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
A white Mazda Twin Cab No. ADL4091 is blocking others and this is the last time we announce this. Next time, the vehicles which will be blocking other vehicles will be toured away.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to
contribute to the Presidential Speech. I want to touch on few issues which are key in the Presidential Speech. One such issue is the resuscitation of our industry and the optimum usage of the same. I want to touch on a very key issue, in particular in Chegutu, Kadoma and
Gweru. That issue is David Whitehead Textiles. Why do I talk of David Whitehead Textiles? I do so as it headed employees to the tune of 4 000 during its peak, I remember during 1988 there were swarms of people who left Kadoma/Rimuka location heading towards David Whitehead Textiles. At that time, you would wonder where the multitudes of people were going to at 12 midnight. I asked and I was told that they were all going to David Whitehead and they were working on a shift system.
I want to dwell on the house and workforce and why David
Whitehead in its present state, cannot be resuscitated under the Judiciary
Management System that it is currently under. Madam Speaker, David Whitehead has gone through three Judiciary Management systems and what it is under now…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. NDUNA: What it is under now is called the final judiciary management. It boggles one’s mind that if somebody does something for fifteen or more years and the same thing to the same entity like David Whitehead without changing any modus operandi and hope for it to be resuscitated and rehabilitated, it will boggle one’s mind why that person would think like that.
I need to touch on the legacy issues that bedevil David Whitehead
Textiles. David Whitehead changed hands from Lonrho or AngloAmerican to the management that was headed at the time by Chimanye. At the peak of listing on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange, the management was told to liquidate their shareholding or to reduce it from 80% to 50% so that it could be listed on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange, whereupon shares were supposed to change hands. One Toindepi who purported to want to buy shares from David Whitehead said he was going to inject US$5.4 million into that entity at that time. Toendepi did not even have a shoe, let alone anything which was automobile. So, it boggles one’s mind why he was given the authority to buy shares from David Whitehead in a fraudulent manner. He misrepresented that he had injected US$5.4 million which he did not.
If at all, he did not even inject a million US dollars, this is why today David Whitehead is in a derelict state because of connivance and fraudulent activities between Chimanye and Toindepi. As we speak, Toendepi is on the run in London, one of the countries that called for sanctions against our beleaguered State. One wonders why England is a safe haven for people that have plundered the resources that have fraudulently taken our resources in terms of shares from our companies and have left them derelict. One wonders why they cannot release those criminals to face the music here in Zimbabwe and why issues to do with fraudulent activities at David Whitehead have not been dealt with to their conclusive end.
At the moment, there is property that has been attached is under investigation and is still with the serious fraud squad at Southerton Police Station from ten years ago including automobile for cases that have not been concluded, and we expect that David Whitehead can be resuscitated. No amounts of DiMAF can resuscitate David Whitehead in its present state. What does David Whitehead owe in terms of creditors? David Whitehead as we speak today, because of these legacy issues, owes to creditors US$20 million and we come here and are made to believe that if we inject $1.8 million DIMAF into David Whitehead, it will be resuscitated. I say no that cannot happen. I say so because I am the Constituency leader of Chegutu which has been since historic time the headquarters of David Whitehead. My friend Hon. Chibaya from Gweru will attest to the same fact that the workers of David Whitehead in Gweru also face – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon. Member
Mutseyami, it is the Chair who directs the Hon. Member who is debating and not another Hon. Member.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the protection Madam Speaker Ma’am.
HON. MARIDADI: Hon. Nduna is giving reference to Hon.
Chibaya who is in Europe right now and he cannot respond to that.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member. Hon.
Nduna is referring to a member of this House. I do not think that there is anything wrong with that and you are not supposed to answer on behalf of another Hon. Member.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for the protection Madam Speaker
Ma’am. Just for point of clarity, I am talking about Hon. Chibaya in good light. He and I share the same sentiments when it comes to the resuscitation of David Whitehead. These were the election promises and we are a Government by the people, for the people, with the people and we want to see the resuscitation of David Whitehead.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, in his absence I speak on his behalf and he shares the same passion. I say today we need to bring to conclusion the issue to do with the investigation of the cases of David Whitehead that are seated and rotting at serious fraud squad at Southerton today. We need to bring to conclusion the issues to do with investigations that are seated in the Attorney-General’s Office today that have not been concluded. I need to ask why we should hold at ransom more than 4 000 families each with five kids or dependants. We are talking of more than 20 000 households and why should we hold them at ransomed – because we do not want to do our duties diligently?
I touched on issues to do with the DIMAF and no amount of it can resuscitate David Whitehead. What David Whitehead needs to do now for the record, it needs to change its credit into equity. The majority of that credit is owed to the former workers. If you retrench a worker and you do not pay them, it means in essence they are still working. They are still active workers and to this end they are owed more than US $10 million as workers and former workers. So that credit of $20 million, 50% of it is owed to workers.
So all I am praying needs to be done at David Whitehead, is you need to change that credit into equity and make the workers the majority shareholders by turning over that company to the rightful owners who are the workers, 20 000 households. I will give you a brief rundown on who is owed at David Whitehead – it is the workers $10 million;
Parogate $5 million, utilities $2 million, that is the urban councils and ZESA $2 million. That will roughly bring it to about $20 million and we come here and make believe. We believe that David Whitehead can be resuscitated by $1.8 million - it will not.
I will tell you what a judicial manager is. A judicial manager is like a doctor, he can proffer a solution and medication - whether you resuscitate or not; that is no ndaba of his. He will still get paid for his services. This is what one Hofisi would have us believe. David Whitehead has gone through three judicial managers, Cecil Madondo,
Militara and now the final judicial manager who is Hofisi.
Hofisi is not a good enough judicial manager for David Whitehead because he is conflicted. He started as an accountant at David Whitehead, went on to be a partner as a judicial manager in the first judicial management and today he is the third and final judicial manager. We should open our eyes and see that this person is in it for self and selfish gains as opposed to the resuscitation of the community factory.
Madam Speaker Ma’am, we are losing the future of this nation in general and the future of Chegutu, Gweru, and the future of Kadoma in particular. When they started liquidating the shares of David
Whitehead, purportedly to one Toendepi who is on the run, one Chimanye started selling hosiery machines. As we speak, there are 15 hosiery machines that are being utilised by his wife behind Borrowdale today at the expense of the workers at David Whitehead.
We need to reverse this situation by making sure that the wheels of justice turn and are oiled by this Parliament, because we are here to make laws for the good governance and order of society. So today I make a clarion call to us in this House to make sure that we resuscitate industry by nipping grand corruption in its bud. Here is grand corruption and it is glaring and it is time that we dealt with it in total. This $1.8 million that we are made to believe is going to resuscitate David Whitehead is in actual fact going to be the payment for the judicial manager’s services.
As we speak, David Whitehead workers and former workers are being chased out of the real estate that David Whitehead owns so that the judicial manager can sell the houses, more than 120 employees so that he can get what he can, cans what he gets and moves off. Is this the type of industry that we want? How many investors are going to come in a situation which is riddled with such inconsistencies?
HON. MARIDADI: Madam Speaker, I raise a point of order on a matter of procedure. I agree with the Hon. Member’s debate but he is talking about a judicial manager who is in place, who has been appointed, who is working and is not able to come and respond to his allegations.
Secondly, he once posed a question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce and the response that was given by the Minister was that on this particular issue, the Hon. Member is conflicted. I think as a House we should be guided accordingly. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you come again.
HON. MARIDADI: There are two issues. Firstly, he is talking about David Whitehead and the judicial manager who is currently in place and according to Standing Rules and Orders, you cannot talk about somebody who is unable to come to this House and defend himself. Secondly, he once asked a question which he directed to the
Minister of Industry and Commerce on the same issue of the Judicial
Manager and the response that was given by the Minister was that the Hon. Member is an interested part. As such, I think this House should be guided accordingly. Thank you.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Hon. Member is
responding to the Presidential Speech – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – When he is responding to the Presidential Speech – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – Order, let us have order.
HON. MARIDADI: With respect Madam Speaker, the President gave the State of the Nation Address and to imply that the Hon. Member is responding to that Address might not be correct because the President did not address the issue of David Whitehead.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: What happens Hon. Member,
when you are responding to the Presidential Speech, you end up referring to some issues which are happening in your constituency. You cannot go on talking about the speech of the President only, but you can also refer to your constituency or some other issues. Can the Hon.
Member wind up his presentation.
HON. NDUNA: As I wind up, I want to talk of ‘Housing for All’,
in particular, in the old location of Chegutu 2 District in Ward 5. That is one of the oldest locations, but as we speak today, the councillor of Chegutu will have us believe those 25 years on, those people still owe council more than $4 000 each in order to get title deeds to those houses.
If we do not nip corruption at that level in its bud, we are doing ourselves a disservice.
On issues to deal with farm downsizing, I agree in total that there is going to be downsizing to the required 400 hectares. However, there is a lot of corruption that goes on behind the scenes in the lands offices. What happens is, they will give you 300 hectares, but he who knows how much land there is, is only the lands officer, and he who is doing the planning. So, what happens is that they will give you the 300 hectares, but behind the 300 hectares, there is 3 000 hectares that are not written on paper. As they downsize, they will downsize from the 300 to 150 hectares, but they will still go smiling all the way to the corrupt bank.
On issues to do with education, I need to touch on education as enshrined in our Constitution, for this Parliament to uphold the supreme law of the land which is the Constitution, to provide free basic education for our kids so that we do not mortgage our future by not providing free basic education.
As we deal with health issues, we need to follow where our population has gone to, that is, to the rural areas. We need to provide free health service, not only to establish free health institutions in the rural areas, but also to provide free health service for our institutions, elderly or the population in the rural areas until we are able to provide optimally for our villagers or rural people from the land that we have been given through the Land Reform Programme. I thank you.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th October, 2015.
STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE
Fifth Order read: Adjourned debate on motion in reply to the State of the Nation Address by His Excellency, the President of Zimbabwe.
Question again proposed.
HON. MATUKE: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. RUNGANI: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th October, 2015.
REPEAL OF SECTION 3 OF THE GOLD TRADE ACT
HON. NDUNA: I move the motion standing in my name that this House:
COGNISANT of the prevailing economic challenges that the country is facing due, in part, to the debilitating economic sanctions and the lack of balance of payment support;
CONCERNED with the crippling de-industrilisation and the prevailing low capacity utlisation in the industrial sector which has severely dwindled Government revenue from taxes; ACKNOWLEDGING the informalisation of the economy which has led to an astronomical growth of the informal sector;
CONVINCED that the pursuit of an upward trajectory of economic revival as envisaged in the ZIM ASSET economic blueprint will include, in part, the formulation of strategies to tap into the informal sector;
RECOGNISING that artisanal mining, which involves over 500
000 people, is a significant generator of both rural and urban livelihoods which has the potential to alleviate poverty and a tool for sustainable development thus, contributing to ZIM ASSET;
AWARE that despite its obvious benefits, the formalization of artisanal mining is hindered by the absence of an enabling legislative framework, prohibitive levies charged by the Ministry of Mines, Rural District Councils, the Environmental Management Agency as well as inordinate delays in the issuance of licenses and inspections by surveyors.
ALSO AWARE that the formalization of the sector will enable artisanal miners to contribute towards the fiscus and will reduce incidences of diversion and smuggling of our precious mineral resources to neighbouring countries;
NOW, THEREFORE, calls upon the Executive to:
- Repeal Section 3 of the Gold Trade Act which criminalises possession of gold and also imposes stiff penalties for possession and also repeal Sections 365 to 368 of the Mines and Minerals Act which criminalises prospecting by artisanal miners;
- Adapt to the ‘new normal’ and review the Mines and
Minerals Act to include artisanal and small scale mining;
- Decriminalise artisanal mining by creating objective, transparent and non-discriminatory regulatory mechanisms which offer easy access to mining titles and legal production channels;
- Create an enabling legislative framework which integrates the artisanal mining sector into the local community and encourages the investment of profits in other forms of economic activity and services.
HON. MAPIKI: I second.
HON. NDUNA: I want to preface my motion by congratulating the three Hon. Members that were recently sworn in and giving ZANU PF in this House an unassailable majority.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand here before you today and I am calling for the decriminalisation of artisanal mining. I say this with a heavy heart, cognisant of the fact that the laws that are enshrined in our Acts are still more moribund, archaic, and historic and still border on colonial breakdown that does not speak to the present day situation of our economic development in this nation. They do not speak to the resource mobilisation, exploitation, exploration and usage as we see it in this present day, Zimbabwe and the global community.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I say small scale mining and artisanal mining and chikorokoza has an effect of removing or treating the issue of deindustrialization. Artisanal mining and chikorokoza is an empowerment tool which borders on affirmative action in terms of resource exploitation and empowerment of our people using the resources that we have got. Artisanal mining is currently being carried out; chikorokoza is currently being carried out. We are exploiting our minerals as we speak but because the artisanal miners, 100% or 99% of them are not licensed, they cannot freely go and sell their gold to Fidelity.
Hon. Speaker Sir, there are a lot of sections in the Gold Act, one such section is Gold Act Section 3, that criminalizes possession of gold. That makes sure that the artisanal miners cannot see the light of day if they do possess, if they do hold gold in their hands. I want to read what Section 3 of the Gold Act says and after I have read it, I will call for the repeal of this Act, for the removal of this Act or to make sure that we move with the time. We do not criminalize possession of gold so that our people can freely go and sell their gold to Fidelity or to Government as opposed to doing what is called engage in basic elicit outflows where they sell their gold to licenced buyers whose buyers have an open ended licence and I am free to sell anywhere else except Fidelity under the cover of darkness.
I will read verbatim, I will quote the Gold Act Chapter 2103, it is said here, it is revised, and it is a 1996 edition. Verbatim part 2 says
‘Dealing in and possession of gold, prohibition of dealing in or possession of gold’ that is Section 3 (1), ‘No person shall either as principal agent deal in or possess gold unless:-
- He is a holder of a licence or permit;
- He is a holder of a tributor;
- He is a holder of an authority, grant or permit issued under the Mines and Minerals Act 215, authorizing him to work an alluvial gold deposit; and
- He is an employee or agent of any persons mentioned in paragraph a, b, c and is authorized by his employer or principal to deal and possess gold in a lawful possession of such an employer or principal and deals or possesses gold in accordance with the Act and licence permit, authority or grant if any held by him”.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I will not go on with the rest of that section but the point is well ventilated, the point is, as long as we do not reverse and as long as we do not repeal this Act, as long as we do not change what is enshrined in this section and in this Gold Act, we are criminalising our artisanal miners who have got the antidote, who have got the potential, who have got the answer to de-industrialisation, who have got the answer to optimum usage and exploitation of our God given finite mineral resources.
Hon. Speaker Sir, in the same vein, I am calling for the repealing of Section 368 of the Mines and Minerals Act, Chapter 2105 which speaks to criminalization of – I want to read it verbatim Hon. Speaker, so that I am guided accordingly. Hon. Speaker, Section 368 deals with prospecting, criminalizes issues to do with prospecting. I am calling for the repealing of this Act; I am not calling for alignment of these laws. I am calling for the repealing of this Act so that we can optimally utilise our God given resources. The Constitution speaks to the right to land, we have addressed that scenario by the Land Act of 2000. Now we have empowered our people but we are reversing those gains by criminalizing amai, mwana, baba and sekuru whilst they dig in the backyard of their land of their heart if they are caught by Minerals Department or the police or our Securico Department and are said to have been prospecting as long as they go a metre down on the same sport. They are no longer allowed to freely till their land because of fear of this draconian law that is hidden in Section 365 of the Mines and Minerals Act.
Hon. Speaker Sir, I am calling for the repealing of that Act, because as long as we do not operationalise the issue to do with decriminalizing artisanal mining and chikorokoza, we will never stamp out corruption and elicit outflows. We will always have people that are caught at our boarders as they try to circumvent the law and sell the gold outside our boarders, after having gotten it for a pittance from our artisanal miners who are the majority miners in this nation.
As we speak Hon. Speaker Sir, in his Mid-Term Monetary Review
Statement, Hon. Chinamasa, Minister of Finance and Economic Development alluded to the fact that there are more than 500 000 artisanal miners out there and his contribution from the small scale miners has risen from one tonne to three tonnes. So, why do we criminalize the hand that feeds us?
Hon. Speaker Sir, we are receiving from the artisanal miners with the other hand and we are incarcerating them with the other hand because all we are failing to do is to repeal these laws. We are a Government by the people, for the people and with the people and we are here to make laws for the good governance and the order of the people. That is enshrined betweens Sections 117 to 119 of the Constitution. So, we are supposed to be here to make...
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members.
Please lower your voices, if you cannot control your voices you go outside and have your discussion outside. You may continue hon. member.
HON. NDUNA: Thank you Hon. Speaker Sir, by making sure
that we decriminalize artisanal mining, we are tapping into our resource which is finite as we speak, that resource is being exploited but the money is not accruing to Government in terms of royalties and in terms of benefits to the fiscus because the person that we are criminalising is the person that is exploiting the resources.
Mr. Speaker Sir, in Chegutu, I have 6 000 artisanal minors, makorokoza, who have generated more than 100kg in two months. What that translates to is US$3.2 million and what it translates to in terms of 5% royalty is about US$40 000. Forty of us in this House can easily be paid from those royalties in one month.
Government is being propped up by these same people that are being criminalised. We should see light and sense in decriminalising them because as long as we do not decriminalise artisanal mining, I will tell you what will befall this country. It is corruption and some more corruption because we are trying to oil the hands of the police in order to make sure that we are not incarcerated as artisanal miners. We are
trying to oil the hands of the millers where we go to so that we get our ore milled. We are trying to oil the hands of the buyers at Fidelity so that they can buy our gold without a licence because all we are doing is we are not repealing the sections that are draconian, that are enshrined in these Acts. I call to this House to stand with one voice and decriminalise artisanal mining.
Mr. Speaker Sir, my heart goes to the people of Chegutu. There are people who are being incarcerated; ten a day, including women and children because of artisanal mining. There is no industrialisation as we speak in Chegutu. Why do we not take from our resources in order to capitalise our industry using artisanal miners? Why do we want to remove them from the main stream economy? Why do we say as long as it is not money we are sidelining them. I am saying to you today, they are giving you money in terms and in the form of gold. Those 500 000 that the Minister of Finance and Economic Development has alluded to, ndivo vane zvivindi, who have gone and sold, but otherwise there are five times more out there that have not found the liver in them to go and face the police and maybe circumvent the police to go and sell their God given gold to Fidelity.
Mr. Speaker Sir, the issue to do with speculative holding of claims and mines can be addressed by making sure that we regulate the artisanal miners as they go and exploit our God given minerals. When they come to sell to Fidelity or to Government, at that point, let us register them. Let us formalise the informal sector and bring home the gold and prop up our economy. Given that this is not an infinite resource, as we tap into it, it is not getting any less; it is getting to extinction.
Let us pioneer laws for the good governance of our people. I call upon this House to make a law to pioneer this issue, not only in the SADC region, but in the whole global community that is going to empower our korokozas or artisanal miners and small scale miners. It will be a first not only in Africa and SADC but in the whole global community. So, I call upon this House to be pioneers, to be inventors of this noble cause. It is common knowledge that our economy is skewed towards the informal sector because of the de-industrialisation that has been caused partly by the sanctions. In the same vein, I want to call for the criminalisation of those that call for sanctions.
We came in here the other day and we applied and changed a labour law and we applied it in retrospect. In the same vein, I ask for this law to be applied in retrospect and make sure that all those that were arrested for artisanal mining and chikorokoza be released from prison, forthwith. If we release these people that we have been incarcerating, knowingly or unknowingly, they were propping up our economy. We are sending a clear signal that now, we are formalising our economy in a non-skewed way so that our korokozas, being bankable so that now we can start realising our benefit from our God given resources. The system that licences gold buyers, I am quite sure can also licence makorokoza.
The system can also licence artisanal miners in the same vein.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you ask yourself where the gold that has been captured at the borders go to. If it is well documented, you will find that there is more gold that has been captured at the borders than is going to Government and that gold should be attributed to the artisanal miners over and above that which has gone to Fidelity. If we can produce using 6 000 manpower, 100kg in two months, how many and how much can 500 000 and five times that can produce in a month. We are talking of more than 6 million tones. If these people are given their operating space, and if they are given the knowledge, we will have an issue that we can clearly address, of exploration.
These are the best people in terms of exploration. They know where gold is. Vanotora dombo vorinanzva vokuudza kuti rinegoridhe iri. However, instead of paying for exploration, we can use our artisanal miners to close that vacuum and that gap. Why should we pay for services that can come free? There is what is called ‘brown bird exploration’. These are the people that can do exploration at no expense. The holders of claims in Zimbabwe…
THE HON. TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order. Hon.
Mutseyami, can you go back to your seat?
HON. NDUNA: I was saying the holders of claims in Zimbabwe, nine times out of ten are listed on the London Stock Exchange and in other exchanges outside this country. They are the former colonisers of this nation and they are the former holders of the majority of our mines in this nation. We have changed nothing since independence. Whoever is there is playing a front of those that were always there, the original players. The original players are not in this country and they do not care about this country, about us, our future and our artisanal miners. They do not care if we arrest each other and they do not care if we are incarcerating our women, wives, fathers and our uncles. Mr. Speaker Sir, let us care about our own.
Mr. Speaker Sir, as I wind up, I want to say the ‘use it’ or lose it concept Mr. Speaker Sir, is now being brought to its fruition by these artisanal miners. No amount of pressure from offices in Harare can pressure a miner in Kadoma to lose it or use it. Let us use the local players to go on the ground and identify those claims that are being held for speculative purposes; bring out the gold, come and sell it to Fidelity and get licenced for those claims.
Mr. Speaker Sir, we are fuelling corruption by being inept in terms of passing good laws for the good governance of our people. I have a list of people that have formulated themselves into mining co-operatives numbering 10 in Chegutu. Mines that are held for speculative purposes are not only in Chegutu; they are in Murehwa, Mazowe, Lupane,
Gwanda, they are everywhere and the only place they are not found is Borrowdale. Hon. Speaker Sir, we would have done service to our population.
Hon. Speaker, as I sit, I want to thank you for affording me this opportunity that is now going to remove the shackles of bondage and self servitudeness from our people and from our community in Zimbabwe in general and in Chegutu in particular because in a 40 kilometre radius place, we have more that 49 gold mines Mr. Speaker Sir. As I know it, towns were formed around mines [AN. HON.
MEMBER: Yes!] – Why do we not have 49 mines around Chegutu?
You can see, it is because we are criminalising our artisanal mines, we are biting the finger that feeds us. I thank you.
*HON. MAPIKI: Thank you Hon. Speaker, for affording me this
opportunity to speak on the issue of artisanal miners. They use hard labour and equipment such as pick and shovels because they do not have sophisticated machinery. They are the people who are accused of polluting water, causing prostitution. They are painted in bad light and as a result, that has caused the country to lose some wealth.
Artisanal miners in Zimbabwe are about 500 000 and also composed of 150 000 women and youth. From January to March, they managed to produce one tonne of gold and they now have three tonnes. It is envisaged that our economy is going to improve through artisanal mining. I was envisaging a situation where 500 000 artisanal miners were going to produce a gramme per week and then multiply it by 500 000. We get 500 000 grammes per week and then multiply that output by a month and per year, this will lessen our burden economically.
The problem that we have is the use of the term formal or informal.
The whites were tricky and they used the term informal or non-formal. Companies are closing down because they use heavy machinery. Day-in and day-out, they are doing planning. The artisanal miners are courageous; they are unable to unlock the value in mining.
I would want to support this motion that has been raised by Hon. Nduna and urge other members to support it. If you were to look at the leakage in terms of several types of gold being recovered, it is worrisome. They are people who are getting arrested but others are not being arrested. Gold production and working in gold should be decriminalised. One should not be treated in the same manner as if they have murdered someone if they are found in possession of gold.
Hon. Speaker Sir, on our part, we are busy looking for heavy machinery to be able to do exploration but as has been said by Hon. Nduna, by merely picking up a stone and looking at it they are able to know the quantities of gold that are contained. We may not want to do area mapping for gold and spend a lot of years before we are able to mine that gold. I urge that artisanal miners be formalised or recognised as soon as possible. What remains is that we should give them a pat on the shoulder for a job well done. It is not only gold that artisanal miners are involved in.
In Hwange, there is coal that can be easily mined. They can have smart partnership with Hwange Colliery and supply Hwange Colliery with that coal. At the moment, we are facing challenges with electricity, we are asking why such stations are not being built or why coal is not being mined but they give excuses.
Hon. Speaker Sir, with the minimal tools, rudimental tools such as picks and shovels, coal can be mined and used for tapping in electricity. They can also mine diamond. In Chiadzwa, artisanal miners were renowned for diamond mining. Some mistook members of the Apostolic sect as using the stones for purposes of healing people spiritually. But then, it was known that there was diamond in Chiadzwa. Upon the discovery of the diamond and the moving on to site by big companies; we are informed that the diamond has run out. The big
lesson is that we should formalise our artisanal miners; we should licence them so that they are able to do this work and we should not arrest them.
Hon. Speaker, if we do not give them licences, we can give them permits. The same applies with the hawkers licences. That will strengthen our economy. We are mourning day-in and day-out but we have the resources. We should be able to put in place the regulations or legislation that formalise artisanal miners.
Gold detectors should be allowed into the country duty free. The gold detectors assist the artisanal miners to do their work well. In theory, they say they are allowed to have duty free machines; when you go there, in practice, they are asked to pay duty. There is need for a rethink on that issue so that we set the record straight.
Hon. Speaker, we have compressors that they need to use, they should also be entitled to duty free. There should be a One-Stop-Shop for the artisanal miners because of the current manner in which various
Ministries and Government including environmental agencies carry out different functions. I heard that there will be de-siltation and contracts were awarded to large companies. If you go to Mazowe, they are removing several kilogrammes of gold, but they would have obtained a licence from the Zimbabwe National Water Authority (ZINWA) to say these are the big companies which intend to remove sand from the rivers. The output in terms of cash that is realised from those rivers will be a lot of kilogrammes which are never remitted to Fidelity.
If artisanal miners were to do this, they will be arrested and sent to jail for a long time. We should really look into this issue and decriminalise artisanal miners. The laws governing miners should not differ from that which governs the disenfranchised artisanal miners. The Environmental Management Agency (EMA) should work hand in glove with artisanal miners so that there will be proper rehabilitation of the land in terms of restoration of sand and gravel and planting of trees where necessary. The gold that is realised should benefit the poor artisanal miners. We complain a lot during budgets due to lack of funds but we have diamond, platinum and coal which can even be accessed with bare hands in Hwange yet we keep complaining about shortage of revenue.
If artisanal miners try to access these minerals, they are sent to jail, that is where I am saying this law must be amended so that these miners can be accommodated. We have a lot of large companies in Zimbabwe that are into gold mining and other business ventures. These companies are sitting on claims for speculation on the London Stock Exchange whilst making a lot of cash out of this. Meanwhile, Zimbabweans will be suffering. These companies should go into partnership with the artisanal miners and give them tributaries so that there is mine and they sell to Fidelity. In this regard, we will be able to monitor the amount of gold that is being produced by these large scale miners.
If you go to Metallon Gold Mine in Shamva, they record that they produce 89 kgs per month, but they remit 47 kgs to Fidelity. Where are they taking the other gold? If you were to ask about the 51% Indigenisation policy, some of them are non-indigenous. Does that mean that people will be working for nothing? These countries are bleeding us dry. We went to ZIMPLATS mine and asked them about the share-ownership, they said 90% belongs to the British, 5% to the Australians and 4% to another country outside Zimbabwe but we are getting 1% as Zimbabweans. We have such minerals but what is on the ground in terms of the ownership of that country is that, as indigenous people, we have nothing. We have a lot of wealth in platinum, gold and other minerals but we are reaping nothing because of this skewed share ownership in the companies. This means that we may end up dying in poverty.
There is corruption when an artisanal miner is arrested by a police constable. The police officer gets part of the gold and remits 700 grammes to the police station. From the police station, 200 grammes is lost and then at the magistrate’s court, 200 grammes is also taken. On the trial date, when evidence is called forth on the quantity of gold confiscated, there will be 2 grammes. You then would want to find out what would have happened to the 1kg of gold that was initially taken from the artisanal miner. These leakages can be stopped if everyone is allowed to trade in gold in as much as people trade in maize. The word precious metal should be removed and anyone should be able to sell gold. It should not be an anathema for one to be involved in gold mining or to be in possession of gold. When one wants to export gold, they should be taxed. We want the law to be revisited and I reiterate that artisanal miners should be formalised as soon as possible.
Gold is abundant in Shamva and a lot of artisanal miners are being arrested, but the amount of gold that is confiscated deteriorates along the system due to corruption. If artisanal miners are allowed to mine gold and sell it directly to Fidelity, then all this corruption and leakages will be avoided. Government should set the price for gold in a transparent manner. We consult amongst ourselves on a Wednesday about gold buyers, but in Shamva there are individuals who openly market themselves in their homes to say ‘we buy gold’. They do not have a buyer’s licence and do not know where the gold is taken but we just watch without taking any action.
On the contrary, if one is caught with a small portion of marijuana, they are severely punished yet there are people who are extorting gold and put up banners written ‘gold buyer’ with no licence. Police officers and other law authorities get to witness such illicit activities as they pass through those places, but they receive bribes and pretend that they have not seen anything. The gold is not benefitting the Treasury and yet we push the Hon. Chinamasa to avail funds for the nation.
That is the reason why I am saying the artisanal miners should be supported through giving them operating licences. Let us build them with the necessary mining equipment and infrastructure like the ones being used by Metallon Gold Mine so that they produce – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – Shamva Gold mine has 160 claims, but only 10 are in operation. Why are they keeping all the remaining gold claims? If we fought in the liberation struggle so that the distribution of wealth becomes equitable, is it fair that someone has 160 claims and I have none? If I then decide to mine on a claim I happen to discover, I am arrested, the law becomes even difficult to accept. If we talk about equitable distribution of wealth, let it not remain on paper, it should be practical. I therefore plead with the authorities that artisanal miners should be formalised.
The most difficult issue to deal with is within the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. If we really want our wealth to be realised, the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development should be given a wake-up call or heads must roll. If you visit Shamva, you will realize that 80% of mines are not in use, citing the issue of disputes. These disputes are awkward as one will be having the necessary documentation from EMA and other authorities to show, but the ownership would be said to be in dispute simply because gold would have been discovered. There will be some people coming from the Ministry of Mines, digging into the claims and production is abruptly stopped – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – In such a scenario, we cannot expect Zimbabwe to grow; there will not be any growth.
If the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development is tasked to solve such disputes, they will take two to four years and yet the ownership documentation will be very clear in as far as who owns the claim is concerned. During the night, some people from the Ministry would come and mine the gold which is never sold to Fidelity.
The process of pegging gold claims is taking a very long time to complete. The Ministers are taking long to process documents on these claims. You will find that if there are 200 claims coming in, only one will be processed in two months. Are people working in such a scenario? Can a country be able to progress under such circumstances? I am of the view that Government leaders who are in this august House should also exercise what is called Result Based Management on Ministers. We should be able to know the work done by a Minister through the results of each Ministry. If they are not performing, they should be send packing. Members of Parliament are going through a difficult time over these issues.
A mining claim is discovered but the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development will take years to ensure that the claim is put to use. Some of them even want to be asked for a totem in order to do their work. What is the use when the procedures are there to follow? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] – We are saying, that issue should be rectified. The corrupt Ministry of Mines and Mining Development officials are causing us sleepless nights. They are not working in a transparent and accountable manner. They suffer from conflict of interest in terms of their operations and they conduct nocturnal activities of mining. That Ministry should be set straight so that things become good for us.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time is up Hon.
HON. MARIDADI: I move that the Hon. Member’s time be
HON. MANDIPAKA: I object Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have an objection and so
the Hon. Member cannot continue.
*MR. MAPIKI: Thank you Madam Speaker, you have allowed me to finish …
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you cannot
continue because there is an objection. Thank you.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, I move that the debate do now
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 27th October, 2015.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Madam Speaker, I move that Order of the day
Number 6, be stood over until the First Order of the day is disposed of.
Motion put and agreed to.
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND EVIDENCE AMENDMENT
BILL [H.B.2, 2015]
First order read: Committee: Criminal Procedure and Evidence Amendment Bill [H. B. 2, 2015].
House in Committee.
On Clause 14:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Ms. Majome left and she
has asked me to move the amendments on her behalf.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: It has to be in writing Hon.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: But she is here.
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that is fine, she can
proceed or she can put it in writing.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in Hon. Majome’s name. The amendment was to deal with the issues to do with the language. We were asking that there be an amendment that does not require that the person is presumed to have understood what they are being accused for. Alternatively, we had said if we cannot remove that Clause, perhaps we could have a signed statement by the accused saying whether or not they indeed had been informed in the language of their choice.
I say so Hon. Chair because many of us would know that it has been common that when you are at road blocks, and you are in places where your language is not spoken, for example if you are to go to Tsholotsho right now, you may meet somebody who is speaking to you in Shona, because the police cannot speak to you in Ndebele and it is quite common. We are therefore, asking to put that Clause because as it stands right now, it will not deal with the issues that are prevalent in this country.
I think many of the people may stand up to attest to that particular issue, that issues of language, particularly as they relate to the police are problematic. All we are asking is for that clause to be amended.
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): Thank you Mr. Chairman. In relation to the issues raised by Hon. Majome on Clause 14, Section 41 A, it must be understood that not all arrested persons understand the officially recognised languages of Zimbabwe. There are suspects who speak languages that are not officially recognized languages of Zimbabwe but we still arrest them.
Are the police supposed to have a Korean or Slovak interpreter wherever they are to read them their rights? It will remain unclear as to how to handle cases of accused people who do not understand any one of the officially recognised languages of Zimbabwe. The police will have the same objection as speakers of the official languages, even if their language is not mentioned in the Constitution. They might even allege that their right to equality and non discrimination under Section
56 of the Constitution is being violated. That presumption in favour of English is a rebuttable presumption. It is open to any speaker of an official language who was read his or her rights in English to allege in court that he or she truly did not comprehend what was being said to him or her by the police. This presumption is essential for the efficient administration of justice. Without it, law enforcement may become impossible in some cases.
In some cases it might happen that an accused is known to speak
English but afterwards pretends not to understand it when it suits him. Obviously, if an interpreter in the required recognised language is at hand, the police will use him/her. Just as the law cannot require anyone to do the impossible, we should not require law enforcement agencies to do the impossible - to have somebody who speaks the languages at the point of arrest.
The Tenth Schedule – Statement of Rights upon arrest shall be translated in all official languages of this country and the police will endeavour to have an interpreter available wherever it is possible.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I did not get the
response from the Hon. Vice President where we have said as one of the suggestions that perhaps let there be a statement that is signed at the point of arrest or of being charged where this person actually does indicate that they did receive the information in a language that they understood, instead of asking them to prove the negative. Could that not be possible just as we do the warned and cautioned statements? I thank you.
HON. MNANGAGWA: Obviously, where the police satisfy themselves that the accused person does not understand the language or cannot follow, will be detained until an interpreter is found to facilitate the interpretation.
Amendment proposed by the Minister of Justice, Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs put and agreed to.
Amendment proposed by Hon. Majome put and negatived.
Amendments to Clause 14 put and agreed to.
Clause 14, as amended, put agreed to.
Clauses 15 to 17 put and agreed to.
On Clause 18:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I move the amendment
standing in Hon. Majome’s name that “Section 50 (1) (a) and 33 (1) to require the issuer of a warrant of arrest and/or search to personally entertain reasonable suspicion of offence”.
HON. MNANGAGWA: In relation to Clause 18, amendment of Section 50 (1) (a) and 33 (1) which is requirement for an adversarial legal system. The court only evaluates the evidence placed before it and comes up with a determination. The applicant is the one who is supposed to prove that there is a reasonable suspicion warranting the court to issue the warrant so requested. So, I cannot take on board the amendment.
Amendment by Hon. Misihairabwi-Mushonga, put and negatived.
Amendment by Hon. Mnangagwa, put and agreed to.
Clause 18, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clause 19, put and agreed to.
On Clause 20:
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: - [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] – I hope the Minister can hear what Members of Parliament are saying, that there is no point in debating and I do not think that is your idea. If there is no point in debating, then let us all just sit down. I thought there was a point in debating.
On Clause 20, I did raise during the time that we were doing the second reading Hon. Vice President. Basically, the argument that I put then was that I believe it is just so wide and arbitrary that if we define –
HON. MNANGAGWA: On a point of order. We are dealing with the amendments that were proposed and submitted, and are on the Order Paper. We have no amendment to Clause 20 at all. We have an amendment to clauses 24 and 30 – [HON. MISIHAIRABWIMUSHONGA: Hon. Vice President, you said to us we can raise issues from the floor.] – That is the procedure of the House so that we cannot entertainment an amendment which was not submitted.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Hon. Chair, the last
time when we had this discussion, we actually agreed that there will be amendments that would have been submitted and amendments that will be brought from the floor. If we have changed that particular agreement, it is okay, I do not have a problem, but there was a standing agreement –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order! – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: If that agreement is no longer there, there is no problem.] – Order, Hon. Member. You might have made that but it is not appearing on the Order Paper and therefore, we cannot take it. – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Inaudible
interjections.] – It is not on the Order Paper, therefore there is nothing that we can do.
HON. CHIDAVAENZI: On a point of order. I would request the Hon. Member to withdraw a statement because the fact that she stood up to present to the House means there is a right to presentation and issues are considered on merit – [HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I am not going to withdraw.] – [HON. MEMEBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (HON. MARUMAHOKO):
Order! Hon. Member, I had already made a ruling.
Clause 20, put and agreed to.
Clauses 21 to 23, put and agreed to.
On Clause 24:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment in my name that on page 22,
in line 37, delete the word “its” and substitute with “it”.
Amendment to Clause 24, put and agreed to.
Clause 24, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 25 to 29, put and agreed to.
On New Clause 30: Amendment of Section 121 of Chapter 9:07:
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER OF JUSTICE,
LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA): I move the amendment in my name that on page 27
of the Bill, after line 23 and after Clause 29, insert the following new clause and renumber the succeeding clauses accordingly:-
“30 Amendment of Section 121 of Cap. 9:07
Section 121 (“Appeals against decisions regarding bail”) of the principal Act is amended –
- by the repeal of subsection (1) and the substitution of –
“(1) Subject to this section, where a judge or magistrate has admitted or refused to admit a person to bail –
(a) the Prosecutor-General or the public prosecutor, within forty-eight hours of the decision; or (b) the person concerned, at any time; may appeal against the admission to or refusal to bail or the amount fixed as bail or any conditions imposed in connection with bail.”;
- by the repeal of subsection (3) and the substitution of –
“(3) Where a judge or magistrate has admitted a person to bail and the judge or magistrate is notified immediately after the decision that the Prosecutor-General or a public prosecutor wishes to appeal against the decision, the judge or magistrate shall order the person to remain in custody until the appeal is determined:
Provided that the person shall not remain in custody under such an Order for longer than forty-eight hours unless, within that period, the Prosecutor-General or public prosecutor lodges the appeal.”;
- in subsection (6) by the deletion of “subsections (2) to (6) of section one hundred and sixteen” and the substitution of “subsections 117 (2) to
Amendment to New Clause 30, put and agreed to.
New Clause 30, as amended, put and agreed to.
Clauses 31 to 49, put and agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.
Bill referred to the Parliamentary Legal Committee
On the motion of THE VICE PRESIDENT AND MINISTER
OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON.
MNANGAGWA), the House adjourned at Twenty Eight Minutes to
Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 27th October, 2015.