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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 27 JUNE 2019 45-67
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Thursday, 27th June, 2019
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
(THE HON. SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. SPEAKER
HOSPITALISATION OF HON. SENATOR MATHUTHU
THE HON. SPEAKER: I have the following announcement; let
me start by Hon. Senator Mathuthu to report that I think if all goes on well the doctors say he will be released tomorrow from hospital.
BURIAL OF HON. GUMBWANDA
THE HON. SPEAKER: The second announcement is that Hon. Members are advised that the burial of the late Hon. Gumbwanda will be on Saturday 29th June 2019 at his rural home in Muzvidzwa Village under Chief Bota in Zaka. A church service will be held at Nyaradzo Funeral Parlour tomorrow 28th June 2019 at 11o’clock in the morning.
The parlour is at Hebert Chitepo Street here in Harare – [HON.
SIKHALA: Inaudible interjection] –
Hon. Sikhala, I think we need to respect the dead and I ask you to withdraw that statement.
HON. SIKHALA: I withdraw my statement Mr. Speaker.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Phuti was supposed to have moved a motion, I think yesterday on the passing on of Hon. Mguni. If a Member is not ready, normally you give another Member to do it on your behalf. It will be very unwieldy that we start debating the latter death than the one that took place before. Hon. Sithole from
Matebeleland South, can you immediately see the Clerk of Parliament in his office so that we can table it here as well, otherwise it will be very un-procedural.
The Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs having approached the Chair.
Order, order. The Leader of Government Business has drawn to my attention actually that it was done orally and transcribed to the Order Paper under item number 7. So it is there page 1 505. The Hon. Member from Mashonaland South, Hon. Major Gen. Sithole, will move the motion for debate.
HON. BITI: On a point of privilege, Hon. Speaker Sir. Hon. Speaker you undertook to provide a ruling on the issue of the nontabling of the NSSA Forensic Audit Report by the esteemed Minister of
Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Sekai Nzenza today.
So we are asking, Hon. Speaker, that you make your ruling.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I thought Hon. Biti would be prophetic enough to know that the ruling is ready. I am going to do it. Thank you.
TABLING OF REPORTS
REPORTS OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL FOR THE YEAR ENDED
DECEMBER 31, 2018
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I move on behalf of the Minister of Finance and Economic
Development. Mr. Speaker Sir, in terms of section 12 (1) of the Audit
Office Act, Chapter 22:18, I lay upon the table the Reports of the Auditor General for the year ended December 31, 2018 being:
- Narrative Report on appropriation accounts, finance accounts, revenue statements and fund accounts.
- Narrative Report on State Enterprise and Parastatals and
- Narrative Report on Local Government Authorities.
I thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir.
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Another point of privilege?
HON. T. MLISWA: It is only two minutes Mr. Speaker; as per your recommendations, it will not be more than two minutes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Which recommendation?
HON. T. MLISWA: You said that people be given two minutes. So, there are a number of issues of which some of them have been overtaken by events which I wanted to then raise on a point of privilege, but some are still outstanding. I do not know if I can be given a chance within two minutes.
THE HON. SPEAKER: You know you raise a point of privilege
– one only.
HON. T. MLISWA: I thought in two minutes I can actually raise a few.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, please do the one you think is very
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise on a point of privilege, privilege 69 read together with 68 (d) of our Standing Orders Rules. Mr. Speaker Sir, section 282 of the Constitution, subsection 1(c) and 1(e) talk about the role of the traditional leaders. Subsection 1 (c) talks about their involvement in the development of their communities and subsection 1 (e) talks about them being involved in any disputes that might arise in the community. In this regard, I refer to the Chinese ways of doing things in the country in that they absolutely have no respect for the laws of this country. They beat up a traditional chief in the Norton constituency, Chief Chivero, because he had gone there to solve a dispute of people not being taken care of in terms of the labour. They were violating the Labour Act.
The STI/STD prevalence in Norton has escalated. In fact, not only that, Mr. Speaker Sir, the STI/STD, which are being infected to our Zimbabwean women are coming from China and the doctors are saying cannot be treated here.
Secondly, there is the aspect of corruption again, which is happening there. The Government itself is failing to ensure that the Chinese adhere to the rules of this country. They seem to be more superior to Zimbabweans, they break the law. Even the Parliament Building which they are building right now, the workers are being exploited. It is important therefore from a national point of view to review our relationship with the Chinese, whether they are for us or against us. Unfortunately we are looking East, but there is nothing that has come from the East since we started looking East. So, it is important that there is a review.
Personally, myself as a Member of Parliament, I was actually kidnapped yesterday when I had gone to meet the Ambassador of China who had come to the constituency. They blocked by car in front and behind, yet I was going to meet the Chinese Ambassador who had visited the factory and I represent the people.
So they have no respect for our human dignity as Zimbabweans in terms of that section 50. Mr. Speaker Sir, even the Parliament building which is being constructed right now, the workers are being exploited. They have no safety wear; labour – they hire and fire willy-nilly. So, from a national point of view Government must review its relationship with China whether it is beneficial to us. The contracts which the Chinese sign in Zimbabwe are constantly inflated which is a burden on tax payer’s money. The corruption is out of this world. A transaction of $200 million is inflated to $250 million. $50 million is something that they cannot even account for. So a review of that relationship with the
Chinese is very important because we now have no face as
Zimbabweans because of the Chinese, to the point where they are going for the Traditional Leaders. The next thing it will be our own President at the end of the day. I thank you Mr. Speaker Sir.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Thank you Hon. Mliswa. Was the
beating of the chief reported to the police?
HON. T. MLISWA: It was reported to the police but the Chinese person actually left the country while the police were looking for him.
He is in China now; he could not even face the courts of this country.
Hon. Nduna having wanted to make a point of privilege
THE HON. SPEAKER: Remember what I said yesterday, we do
not want to abuse the thing. If this trend continues, I will ban points of privilege because we have the Business of the House waiting here. Some of the notices on privilege could come through some motions or question time and matters can be clarified accordingly.
THE HON. SPEAKER’S RULING
PROCEDURE OF TABLING OF FORENSIC REPORTS BY THE
THE HON. SPEAKER: On Wednesday 26, June 2019 in the
National Assembly, Hon. Biti asked the Hon. Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Dr. Kanhutu Nzenza when she would table the National Social Security Authority Special Forensic Audit
Report. He voiced concern that the time limits defined in Section 11 and 12 of the Audit Act had already expired. The Hon. Speaker reminded the Hon. Minister that she had indicated that she would table the said report in 30 days, and later had said within 14 days. The Hon. Minister then indicated that the Audit Office Act does not provide a time frame within which the report ought to be tabled. The Speaker said that since a question of law had been raised, he would attend to it and make a determination accordingly.
This ruling seeks to resolve the matter of tabling of forensic reports made by the Auditor-General upon request by the responsible Minister.
It will also address the matter of tabling of the Auditor General’s reports in terms of section 12 of the Audit Act.
Reports by the Auditor-General in terms of section 10 of the Act
Section 10 of the Act makes reference to annual reports that are to be made by the Auditor-General. Section 10 reads as follows—
“10 Annual report of Comptroller and Auditor-General
(1) The Comptroller and Auditor-General, after examining the accounts transmitted to him or her in terms of section 35(6) and (7) of the Public Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19], and the accounts of any public entity, designated corporate body or statutory fund, and after signing a certificate recording the result of his or her examination, shall—
- prepare and submit to the Minister, not later than the 30th of June in each year, a report on the outcome of his or her examination and audit of the accounts referred to him or her in terms of section 6(1); and
- transmit to the appropriate Minister his or her certificate upon his or her examination and audit of such accounts, together with any report which he or she may consider necessary.
(2) The Comptroller and Auditor-General shall set out in his or her annual report—
- if, in his or her opinion, any payment out of public moneys which has been made in terms of the Public
Finance Management Act [Chapter 22:19], to any Minister, Deputy Minister or other member of Parliament is one on which the Comptroller and Auditor-General should report to Parliament, a statement showing the name of the Minister, Deputy Minister or member receiving such payment, the total amount received and the service in respect of which the payment was made;
- any other matters relating to the audit of public accounts which the Comptroller and Auditor-General thinks should be brought to the attention of Parliament.”
The reports envisioned in section 10 are annual audit reports to the Minister or an appropriate Minister, which the Auditor-General has no discretion over. He or she is compelled to submit reports to the Minister or an appropriate Minister within the provided timelines. Reports made in terms of section 10 are then brought to Parliament by the Minister to whom it is submitted and laid before Parliament.
Reports by the Auditor-General in terms of section 11 of the Act
Whereas section 11 of the Act addresses the matter of “Special
Reports”, it reads—
“11 Special reports
(1) If at any time it appears to the Comptroller and Auditor-
General desirable that any matter relating to public moneys or
State property should be drawn to the attention of Public
Accounts Committee without undue delay, he or she shall prepare a special report in relation to such matter and transmit—
- that report to the Minister; and
- if it relates to a public entity, designated corporate body or statutory fund, a copy of that report to the appropriate Minister.
- The Comptroller and Auditor General may make a special report in terms of subsection (1) relating to any matter incidental to the powers and duties of the Comptroller and Auditor-General under this Act or any other enactment.
- If at any time it appears desirable to the Public Accounts Committee that any matter relating to public moneys or State property should be reported upon by the Comptroller and
Auditor-General, the Committee shall direct the Comptroller and Auditor-General to prepare a special report thereon for the transmission to the Committee and—
- to the Minister; and
- if it relates to a public entity, designated corporate body or statutory fund, to the appropriate Minister.”
There are, therefore, two instances within which the Public
Accounts Committee may receive a special report, these are —
- At the instance of the Auditor-General in matters relating to public moneys or State property; and
- At the instance of the Public Accounts Committee where it directs the Auditor-General to prepare a report on any matter relating to public moneys or State property.
Special Audits at the instance of Government in terms of section
309(2)(b) of the Constitution
At the instance of Government/Minister the Auditor-General can be requested to carry out a special audit of the accounts of any statutory body or government-controlled entity in matters relating to public moneys or State property; and submit such reports to the relevant Minister. This is done in terms of section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution which states that, “The function of the Auditor-General- is to- at the request of the Government, carry out special audits of the accounts of any statutory body or government controlled entity.”
Further, the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act in section 40 states that:
- If a line Minister considers it necessary or desirable to do so, the line Minister may by notice in the Gazette direct that a special investigation be conducted into such matters concerning the operations, dealings, affairs, membership, assets or liabilities of a public entity for which he or she is the responsible Minister, as may be specified in the notice.
- A special investigation may take the form, or be inclusive of, a special or forensic audit of the public entity in question.
The requesting Ministry or entity must state the specific issues to be covered by the forensic audit in the terms of reference. It can, thus, be inferred that Forensic Reports may be deemed Special Reports in instances where they are instigated by the Minister in terms of section
309(2)(b) of the Constitution as read together with section 40 of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act.
Are Forensic Reports Special Reports
Definition and purpose of forensic audits
The Constitution and the Act do not define Forensic Audit. “A forensic audit is an examination and evaluation of a firm's or individual's financial information for use as evidence in court. A forensic audit can be conducted in order to prosecute a party for fraud, embezzlement or other financial claims.”1 According to the Certified
Information Systems Auditor (CISA) definition, “forensic auditing is a type of audit specialised in discovering, disclosing and following up on frauds and crimes”. The primary purpose of a forensic audit is to develop evidence for review by law enforcement agents and the judiciary. Whereas an “audit” is defined in section 2 of the Public Accounts and Auditors Act as “the verification or certification of financial statements, financial transactions, books, accounts or records.”
The primary difference between financial and forensic audits lies in the purpose of the audit. A financial audit confirms the validity of a company’s financial records, providing investors and creditors with confidence in the financial information. Forensic auditing uses accounting and auditing knowledge skills to establish fraud, corruption and other improprieties. A forensic report has legal consequences and can be used in courts to help resolve disputes. Forensic audits relate directly to an issue defined by the audit client. A forensic audit is requested by a client wherever the entity’s finances present a legal concern emanating from the financial audit report highlighting possibilities of financial improprieties or fraud. The Auditor’s report must meet the standards for presentation in court.
Procedure for laying forensic reports before Parliament
Reports made in term of section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution and section 40 of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act do not have a set out procedure for laying before Parliament. The Constitution refers to the audit as a “special audit” and it follows that the reports produced by the Auditor General shall be regarded as “special reports”. These “special reports” are not the “special reports” referred to in section 11 of the Audit Act, the difference being that they are made at the instance of the Minister. The procedure set out in Section 12 of the Audit Act relates to section 10 (annual reports) and section 11(special reports) reports. For the avoidance of doubt, section 12 states that―
“(1) Any report transmitted in terms of section 10 or 11—
- to the Minister; or
- to an appropriate Minister; shall be laid by the Minister or appropriate Minister, as the case may be, before the House of Assembly on one of the seven days on which the House of Assembly sits next after he or she has received such report.
(2) Where the Minister or appropriate Minister fails to lay any report before the House of Assembly in terms of subsection (1) within the period specified therein, the Comptroller and AuditorGeneral shall transmit a copy of such report to the Speaker of the
House of Assembly for the Speaker to lay it before the House of Assembly.”.
Unfortunately, section 12 of the Act cannot be extended to cover forensic reports emanating from section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution and section 40 of the Public Entities Corporate Act. There is a lacuna in the law because the Audit Act came into effect before the enactment of the Constitution and is yet to be aligned to the Constitution.
The procedure to be followed by a Minister or Authority after receiving a forensic report is laid out in section 40 and 41 of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act. The report of the investigation is submitted to the line Ministry stating any action to be taken to remedy the situation and problems that prompted the request for the forensic report. If there are any violations of principles of good corporate governance, the line Minister shall report to the Minister responsible for the Act and seek leave of the President to refer the matter to Cabinet. Therefore, the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act has procedures that must be followed before the report is laid before Parliament.
Reporting to Parliament
All reports produced by the Auditor-General, including the forensic reports transmitted to the Minister or responsible Minister, must be laid before Parliament. For the other reports made in terms of section 10 and 11, the procedure is set in Section 12 of the Audit Act as stated above. As reiterated earlier, there is no procedure for laying the reports before Parliament where reports are submitted to Ministers in terms of section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution and section 40(2) of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act. In terms of procedure of their submission, we cannot rely on the Audit Act because it is not providing for the procedure as it came into effect way before the Constitution was enacted. However, the reports must be submitted to Parliament within a reasonable time.
It is my determination that regardless of the fact that there is no procedure laid out for audits done in terms of section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution, the actions of the Minister receiving such a report must be consistent with founding values and principles of the Constitution enshrined in section 3(2)(g) that require all state institutions and agencies of government at every level to apply the principles of good governance relating to transparency, justice, accountability and responsiveness. Section 119(3) of the Constitution states that all institutions and agencies of the State and Government are accountable to Parliament. Furthermore, sections 298 and 299 of the Constitution, provide, inter alia, that there must be transparency and accountability in public financial matters. Parliament must monitor and oversee expenditure by the State and all Commissions and institutions and agencies of government at every level in order to ensure that all revenue is accounted for and all expenditure has been properly incurred.
The Hon. Minister must be guided by section 324 of the Constitution which states that “all constitutional obligations must be performed diligently and without delay”.
Accordingly, the Chair hereby rules that:
- Section 12 of the Audit Act does not apply to forensic reports submitted to a line Minister as there is no procedure for laying forensic reports before Parliament where reports are submitted to Ministers in terms of section 309(2)(b) of the Constitution and section 40(2) of the Public Entities Corporate Governance Act.
- All reports produced by the Auditor-General, including forensic reports transmitted to the Minister or responsible Minister must be laid before Parliament within a reasonable time. In doing so, the Hon Minister must be guided by section 324 of the Constitution which states that “all constitutional obligations must be performed diligently and without delay”.
- It is on record that the Hon. Minister made an undertaking to lay before the House the NSSA Forensic Report within a period of 30 days and later reduced the period to 14 days. Which period has not been realised due to circumstances beyond the Minister’s control because the Ministry is compelled to do due diligence in complying with the recommendations of the Forensic Audit Report. However, because the Minister had made an undertaking to table the said forensic report, she has an obligation to do so in fulfillment of her promise. Consequently, the Minister is directed within the next 2 weeks, to finalise her due diligence regarding the report and advise Parliament on the date she will table the report. Which period must be within a reasonable time in terms of the letter and spirit of Sections 298, 299, 309(2) and 324 of the
National Constitution. That ends my– [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. We acknowledge your ruling which was very fair and which also tackled some of the grey areas and misinterpretations that we all had. I will duly inform the Minister. Unfortunately what happened that time is that, in haste, she agreed to a date before following the due process of ensuring that the Report was tabled. So, we accept your Ruling and will, accordingly advise Parliament when the processes are carried out – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Inaudible interjection.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: You do not do that Hon. Zwizwai, with
all due respect.
Hon. Sikhala having stood up on a point of Privilege.
THE HON. SPEAKER: No, I said no points of Privilege, I told Hon. Nduna – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] – I must be consistent. Order, if you want clarity read the Hansard tomorrow – [Laughter.] – [HON. SIKHALA: It is a point of order.] – No.
REPORT OF THE ZIMBABWE ELECTORAL COMMISSION ON
2018 HARMONISED ELECTIONS
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I move the motion standing in my name:-
That this House Takes note of the Report of the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission on the 2018 Harmonised Elections presented to this National Assembly in terms of Section 241 of the Constitution of Zimbabwe. I so submit Mr. Speaker Sir.
Hon. Members having been talking to each other.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Members on my left, can you be
Hon. Mliswa having been speaking without being given the floor.
THE HON. SPEAKER: Order. Can we learn decorum; we have gone through so many workshops. If a Member wants to speak, you simply stand up and I recognise you.
HON. T. MLISWA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I think moving forward, it is important to ensure that we all receive these reports. Others are showing that they have the reports, the report is not there. This is not the first time, it always happens, so I am saying that we are suffering from inertia. Some office within your administration is certainly not doing its job – because it is not the first time. He announced it that he was going to table the report, we looked forward to see it, we never got the report. I do not know if anybody has the report – [HON. ZWIZWAI: Even vanhu veZANU havana Report yacho.] –
THE HON. SPEAKER: I am going to rule you out of order.
The Hon. Minister of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs approached the Chair.
THE HON. SPEAKER: I need to apologise to Hon. Members that the Report was tendered by the Hon. Minister to the Papers’ Office. I think what was remaining was to run copies for distribution. We apologise for that and we will make sure that this does not happen again.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (HON. ZIYAMBI): Thank you Mr.
Speaker Sir. I move that the debate do now adjourn.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: 2nd July, 2019.
THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE, LEGAL AND
PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS(HON. ZIYAMBI): I move that
Orders of the Day Number 2 to 6, on today’s Order Paper be stood over until Order Number 7, on today’s Order Paper has been disposed off.
CONDOLENCES ON THE DEATH OF HON. OBEDINGWA
HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I move the motion standing in Mr. Phuti’s name that:
This House expresses its profound sorrow on the sudden and untimely death on Tuesday, 18th June, 2019, of Hon. Member of
Parliament for Mangwe Constituency, Mr. Obedingwa Madlala Mguni;
Places on record its appreciation of the sterling services which the late Member of Parliament rendered to Parliament and the nation; and
Resolves that: its deepest and heartfelt condolences be conveyed to Mrs. Mguni, the entire family, relatives, friends and Mangwe Constituency.
HON. NDUNA: I second.
HON. S. SITHOLE: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. With your indulgence, I think you are going to defend me from the other side of the House. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am debating about our Hon. Obedingwa Madlala Mguni, who passed away on Tuesday, 18th June, 2019. He was our Deputy Chief Whip in this Hon. House. The passing on of Hon.
Mguni is a very big loss, not only to this House, but to the Matabeleland South Province and Zimbabwe as a whole. I hope Hon. Members in this
House will agree with me.
Mr. Speaker Sir, may I make a call in this House for Hon. Members not to always fight against each other but instead acknowledge that there are some chronic diseases which are supposed to be included under the Aids levy which are diabetes and cancer.
*HON. ZWIZWAI: On a point of order! When debating about the deceased, we are not supposed to read but to know his biography. This should be off the cuff; if you do not know the deceased, do not talk about him. You did not even attend the funeral, we attended the funeral and we heard that he was a Pastor.
So, my point of order is that a person should not read about a person that they do not know. He does not even know the mover of the motion and wants to just debate something he does not know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I hear your point Hon. Member. The Hon. Member who is reading is standing in for the mover of the motion.
*HON. S. SITHOLE: Hon. Mguni and I used to go to the same church. So, I got some words from my Church, Guta Ramwari which I need to read to the Hon. House.
The words from the letter – ‘as the Guta Ramwari Church, we would like to thank the Government for honouring Obedingwa Mguni and according him the Liberation War Hero Status. This demonstrates that Hon. Mguni was a committed man. The church appreciates the Hon. Speaker and all Members of the august House for the love that you showed to the Mguni family during the period of bereavement and during his burial.
Hon. Mguni leaves a legacy, a responsibility to every Member of this House to unite. Do not denigrate each other in the august House which was chosen by God. May you work together; if there is a problem, just tell it to God. We implore you Hon. Members as the Guta
Ramwari Church to unite. The late Obedingwa Mguni was the National Chairperson of the Guta Ramwari Church. Everything that was happening in this august House was because of God’s grace upon the
late member, even at his own church he was a unifier, a peacemaker. He had the responsibility of uniting and not dividing people’.
As Hon. Members we need to learn from his life, understand that he is gone and that it is God’s will, forever and ever. I thank you.
HON. NDUNA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it is hardly a fortnight that we were here debating about the death of Hon. Tsvangirai-Java and today we are here back again on this same platform debating about a death of one of our own, Deputy Chief Whip Hon. Obedingwa Mguni. It is quite a sad moment and certainly, it leaves a lot of hearts, including mine in a state of despair. The issue of death is quite an unwelcome event. It is an event which is shocking and if it comes in the manner that has visited
Parliament in the recent past, it is really shocking and it calls for all Hon. Members, may be with your indulgence Mr. Speaker Sir, to undergo psycho-social support because this is heart – rending and this really has actually removed our confidence in our day to day operations here in
Aware Mr. Speaker Sir, that this is where we call home – this is where we work. When we talk of the Constitution; this is where we deal with our legislative oversight work interrogating the manner the Executive carries out its mandate and the representative role. It is here that we come to. I spoke on the day that I debated about Hon.
Tsvangirai-Java that this is our theatre of dreams and what happens here affects all of us, especially when it comes to life...
HON. T. MLISWA: On a point of order. My spirit is failing me to understand where the other members are when we are paying tribute to one of us who passed on. I am finding it very difficult to understand why others are not here. I am just looking at how empty this House is. Even if the family sees this, they would ask if we are really serious. May be Chief Whips can bring people back so that we pay tribute to this great Hon. Member. Words alone do not matter. Action is important – to just sit and pay tribute. Tomorrow it is you and me. Why can we not have such a heart?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Hon.
Mliswa, it is incumbent upon us Hon. Members. This is a very painful motion that we are debating. I am quite concerned that a lot of noise is being made whilst we are debating such a painful motion. Really, it does not go well for the integrity of this House and for other members to leave this House willy-nilly. I do not think it is humane. May you have the floor Hon. Nduna?
HON. NDUNA: I am inclined to agree with your ruling Mr. Speaker Sir. It is on Tuesday that Hon. Phuti wanted to move this motion but with your guidance, you said it is prudent that we move the motion on Thursday when everybody is here and where they can contribute effectively and optimally, in numbers, so that it is known and it is very clear that we are in unison with each other from diverse political aspirations and all protagonists.
I dwelt on the point that we need psycho-social support. We need some counselling of some sort because we cannot have death visit Parliament this often. Three deaths in three months – that is heart rending. Aware that there are only 270 of us here – this is the time when God needs to introspect. When we have been born into this nation, what is left for us is to die but this is unexpected and shocking. It is hitting us like a nightmare in three dimensions. It is quite unwelcome. This is why it would be prudent for people out there to adhere to what is enshrined in the Bible where it says people need to pray for the nation and also to pray for their leaders. Maybe this is the time; with the mandate that is bestowed upon us; it is not the time to be dying. It is time to be delivering on our mandate. What has happened here in Parliament is quite heart-rending to say the least.
I ask, without putting it into prayer, that the Lord Almighty protects us during our time of delivery, which is just five years. We are not wishing any death that has occurred here in Parliament to any family out there Mr. Speaker Sir, I am quite alive to the fact that the Almighty is the one that has created Hon. Members that are here and he is the one who can make you live or make die.
Aware that the Bible also says that man is appointed to live three score and ten. Three score is 60 and 10 is ten and it makes it 70. If you look at Hon. Mguni’s age and those that have gone before him, they were all less than 70 years. One wonders and says is there abdication of the ultimate Constitution which is the Bible by the Maker. I would want this little period of five years that at least we live through that five years so that we can carry out our God given mandate. My heartfelt condolences go to the family of Hon. Obedingwa Mguni, his Constituency and his church Guta RaMwari Zvimiso, where he was an Elder.
Certainly, when we speak of constituencies, it is delimitated to own 50 000 electorate. It is not only us as Parliament that have been visited by this acrimonious event but it is also his Constituency that numbers nothing less than 50 000 people, in particular, more than 20
000 voting population. My heartfelt condolences also go to that
Constituency of Mangwe.
When we come into this House, we come with a lot of burden on our shoulders. It is only prudent that as we make laws, we also make laws that protect us. I stood the other time on that pedestal and platform and spoke so eloquently and so much about road carnage. It touches me and I am quite sure that a lot of other members here know that if you die through road carnage, it is a violent death.
I speak today standing on this pedestal about death due to other ailments that have visited us, such as the one that has taken Hon. Mguni to his Maker – the one of sugar diabetes. It is a silent killer and my friend in my Constituency – Mudhara Ten or Mr. Wunganai; just this last week, he had his second leg amputated. The other one was amputated about two months ago. Why do I give this example? It is because the issue of sugar diabetes is slowly overtaking the pandemic of HIV and AIDS in terms of taking away our beloved ones. It is on the same vein that the mover of the motion has spoken about something that needs to be introduced in the form of the AIDS levy to alleviate the plight of the people with cancer and those that have this ailment before them, especially sugar diabetes. When I speak about this ailment, I know there are a lot of other ailments, including blood pressure. There is need to put our money where our mouth is. If we do not capacitate the health institutions, there will not be any of us to talk about in a very short period. An example that I gave the last time is the issue of road carnage that five deaths per day, if they visit Parliament and we are 270, in one month and eight days, we will all be dead in this Parliament.
If we do not capacitate, the issue of alleviating the plight of Hon. Members using a levy that goes through to sugar diabetes and these other silent killers, we are not doing ourselves any justice. Sugar diabetes and other ailments like BP start affecting at the age of 40 years and above. When we look at our Constitution, to be a legislator, you need to be 21 years and above. We need to put laws to protect that age of the electorate who are these legislators. Dr. Mataruse and Dr. Moyo are here and if they are given the opportunity, they can give statistics as to exactly how many deaths are occurring because of this sugar diabetes.
Today we stand here mourning one of our own who has been taken by this ailment and I ask that we come together to support the proposal by the Minister of Health. I know his deputy speaks so much eloquently and vociferously about this issue of sugar diabetes. I make a clarion call that all members of this House come together to support that proposal to put in that levy that is not only going to alleviate the plight of the Members of Parliament but also the plight of the unsuspecting innocent citizens of Zimbabwe.
I am alive to the fact that Hon. Obedingwa Mguni is a liberation war hero – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I ask for your protection Mr. Speaker Sir. I have done nothing wrong – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members on my left,
HON. NDUNA: Thank you for your protection Mr. Speaker Sir – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – empty vessels! The
Hon. Member of Parliament....
HON. T. KHUMALO: On a point of order. The Hon. Member has just said empty vessels. Can he withdraw that statement because we are not empty vessels?
HON. NDUNA: I withdraw Mr. Speaker. I am alive to the fact that Hon. Obendingwa Mguni was a liberation war hero. He actually went to war and he is the reason why women today are not called minors. Women were called minors before independence and the girl child had no right whatsoever. I am glad people like Hon. Mguni went to war in order to liberate, not only us, but also to uphold and to make sure that women are now who they are today. He is the reason why Zimbabwe got a one man one vote.
My point exactly speaks to honouring our heroes before they die if they are still alive. I ask that before we honour our heroes whilst they are alive, we also spruce up the shrines of those that have passed on and those that are late, both in Zimbabwe and outside our borders. Many times , I have come here and I have asked for honouring our heroes according to Section 3 of the Constitution which honours the liberators and observe that Zimbabwe will never have come of age if we would not have heard the war of umvukela.
Therefore, my proposal is that names of streets that are called by those colonisers and those that fought against us in the war of liberation be repealed and be called by the names of those that went to war for the liberation of this country, including the fallen and those that are living. I also call for the upgrading of our local Parliamentary health institutions. I am alive to the fact that before Hon. Mguni went further to a point of primary health care, he came from Parliament but if this clinic that we have here was capacitated in a trauma centre way, we might not have lost him. It is my thinking that we have the room but we now need to capacitate the place in order that we do not continue to needlessly go to points of primary health care where we can receive primary health care here in Parliament because we spent much more than eight hours here per day for some of us. I ask that we capacitate our clinic with doctors, medicines and the technocrats.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mguni was passionate about the rehabilitation, reconstruction and maintenance of roads in his
Constituency. I ask that this be continued especially – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. NDUNA: This programme should be continued so that this does not die with the passing on of Hon. Mguni. Isaiah 6:1 says, ‘I saw heaven when king Hosea died’. Let there be something that we learn from the demise and passing on of Hon. Mguni. Let there be a levy apportioned for sugar diabetes. Let there be capacitation of our local health institutions and let there be sprucing up, of the places that he would have loved to be spruced up in particular the rehabilitation, reconstruction and maintenance of roads in the Mangwe district. I thank you.
HON. MLISWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this motion which was moved by Hon.
Phuti, but in abstentia, Hon. Sithole moved it and was seconded by Hon.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon Members, order. It
was only yesterday but I do not enjoy sending anyone outside – unless of course, you are going to force me to do that. I will certainly oblige. Can you go ahead Hon. Mliswa.
HON. T. MLISWA: I sit on this side and I constantly used to have sight of him. For a very long time since his departure he is missed. I actually was affected by his death to a point where the day that he died it was even difficult for me to debate. We have a family group and I even said today I am not feeling well and one of my sisters said, ‘I think it is because of Hon. Mguni who is no more’. He was a man who cut across the political divide on the welfare of his colleague Members of Parliament. I have been in this Parliament from 2013 and I have seen Chief Whips and Deputy Chief Whips towing the party line on many issues but I recall the day we were discussing our welfare here. We had a Joint Caucus in the Government Caucus and he got on top of the table and gave us guidance on what we wanted. He was not there to reprimand us or to say anything but to say your call is my call and I am supporting you.
We have heard of his liberation credentials which some of us now know about but you never thought that he was part of the freedom fighters that liberated this country. I am talking about the word humility or meekness, which means you are not able to show who you are, yet you have done so much. He went beyond the line in representing issues of national importance as they were. Even when he was the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, he did that with diligence and professionallism. I was part of this House and when he was asked any question he answered it as it was. He gave hope to the people, he was not arrogant as we see with other Members of the Cabinet who never even went to the struggle but are able to show arrogance to this Parliament. He was a man who departed with no record of being corrupt though being in Government. In this time it is unheard of. As Deputy
Minister of Home Affairs you are in control of the Police, Immigration, Registrar General’s Office but at no time did he ever abuse that office in
arresting anybody or in using it for his individual agenda.
His constituency was always served. Hon. Dube here shared something with me while we were sitting there. He said in 2016, they went to his constituency as a group of 16 Members and it was in Mangwe Constituency. He said all of them were accommodated and fed by him as well as given cars to reach their chosen destinations. How many of us here when those of us that you do not know visit your constituency would you accommodate? Sixteen people accommodated! Hon. Dube is a well known MDC Member but that to him did not matter. That is the man that we are talking about today. For me, for the first time I really dropped tears. He was a good man – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] -
What even affects me more is that he worked hard for his constituents and for his family but is the welfare of his family guaranteed? He left with no car that we were supposed to get. I know people think that when we talk about cars, that is what we want but that is the only thing that Members of Parliament have. The country is suffering and people think Hon. Members do not suffer. As at the black market rate we are being paid US$200 a month. We pay school fees in foreign currency and have our own responsibilities. The question that then makes me sad is how his family will sustain themselves when they had a person who served the nation selflessly and went to the struggle selflessly and when Parliament still has not made a decision on other
MPs who have passed on – Hon. Tsvangirai Java and Hon. Gumbwanda. The moment that you take off, whatever is entitled to you must come to you because taking off is not a joke.
The Speaker makes good rulings on a lot of issues but I am yet to see the Speaker giving a good ruling when it comes to matters of welfare for his Hon. Members of Parliament. We are not faring well because of welfare. I am zeroing in on welfare because this is one of the things that Hon. Mguni stood for and colleague MPs here present and those who are not present, if we believe that a man did great things and stood for great things, those things must continue through us. We must ensure that the welfare of Members of Parliament is of paramount importance. We must make sure that Hon. Mguni’s family lives well, but what measures has Parliament put in place to ensure that if an Hon. Member of Parliament is no more his family is alright?
Members of Parliament die destitute. They leave this Parliament and they are destitute. I never see an MP who is given respect out there when they have no other business yet they have been serving the country. We have no access to State coffers where we can also plunder. Others have access to State coffers where they can plunder and be corrupt. We have a situation where the corruption levels in this country have reached alarming levels to a point where it is now sophisticated.
The Bills that we are introducing in this Parliament have been overtaken by the cartels in this country. Hon. Mguni departs from us at a time when we had a man who we believed would stand for our welfare, a man who we knew that amongst many he would be able to say, but the Hon. Members of Parliament need their welfare to be taken care of. Who today sitting on this side, sitting in this Parliament will be able to take the position that he used to take against his own party, especially when others who are Chief Whips have no credentials of being war veterans.
His war veterans credentials made him rise above party politics because when he went to the struggle, he never fought for any party; he fought for the liberation of this country. As such, you could see it in him that when he represented people, it was the ethos that he went to the struggle for. What is important, Mr. Speaker Sir, is to be able to come up with austerity measures that will ensure that Members of
Parliament’s welfare is taken care of. We need a pronouncement from this esteemed institution as to the benefits of Members of Parliament when they are no more, especially the car issue.
I keep on talking about the car because this is the only asset which Members of Parliament have. If I am not mistaken, the party vehicle that he was using goes back to the party, yet this is the very vehicle that was carrying his family to go to funerals, to go to events that he would be called to. So, when the family now has no father who had a party car, what other car are they going to use because the family is not the party. The party in its own right has a right to repossess that vehicle. Just the same way that I had a vehicle from ZANU-PF, the moment that I was expelled, the vehicle was taken away. Political parties have no mercy, they have no heart.
I would like to know whether they have equally given the family that car so that they use it until he gets his car, that is if he is going to get the car. The children that were being taken to school by the car now are on buses, they are on public transport. What do they say about the role that their father played, what do they say about the party that he comes from and what do they say about this Parliament which represents people?
It is in light of that, Mr. Speaker Sir, that in us moving and debating this motion we address those issues so that they do not keep coming up. Mr. Speaker Sir, you are a member of the esteemed
Committee of Parliament which is the Standing Rules and Orders
Committee, which is responsible for the decision making of this Parliament. The Members of that Committee enjoy a certain right which the ordinary Members do not enjoy and as such, it is important that the spirit that Hon. Mguni had of seeing his fellow Members of Parliament’s welfare being taken care of is attended to.
Let me wish his family well in that he played his part. This is a man who leaves a legacy and I hope that those who will be contesting in the primary elections from all political parties in the constituency know that the man that they are replacing was a man of substance. He was a man who stood for the good of the people, who stood for the good of this nation.
Mr. Speaker Sir, you know that I am one who is very outspoken, who is controversial, but you know this man up to this day, it really makes me breakdown because he was a good man. May his soul rest in peace and may his family find comfort in that they had a warrior, a hero for real. It is not every hero who is buried at the Heroes Acre, it is your deeds which define you as a hero.
+HON. R. MPOFU: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to thank the mover of the motion which is a very painful motion raised by Hon. Phuti and seconded by Hon. Nduna.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very painful to lose someone who is a hard worker. Firstly, I would like to thank the Government that has declared Hon. Mguni a hero because he was someone who fought for the liberation of the country of Zimbabwe and I would also like to thank the Hon. Members from both sides. May they all be blessed. May all of them be blessed because everyone was crying at Hon. Mguni’s funeral.
We were all crying like children from the same house.
It is painful again because we lost one of our own, Hon.
Tsvangirai-Java. She never used to call me Hon. Rosey, she used to call me my sister and this is less than three weeks and we have lost another Member. Mr. Speaker Sir, my prayer is that if only God can just intervene in this House and look after us. We would like to complete our three years so that we finish the work that we were asked to do by the people who voted us in.
Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mguni was a man amongst men. In Matabeleland South, the whole of Matabeleland South has lost a man who was a peace maker. Short as he was, he would just approach those who would be quarreling. I would feel his heart. He had a very heavy heart. It is not easy to find someone like him. I know at times I am cheeky. Maybe it is because I do not see, Mr. Speaker Sir, but he would come close to me and say, no, you are a human being like all other people, but during debates at times you become very cheeky. He would teach me since I was still new and I did not know what was happening.
We are grieving like everyone else, especially the wife because the wife is now left with the children. At times when a husband passes on the relatives of the deceased come wanting to take away everything from the widow. I pray that the Mguni family will not do that.
On the day of his passing he came to me, he held me by my hand and told me that he was not feeling well and I said to him, but uncle how can you say that you are not well when we have not yet received our vehicles. I thought that he was joking. Little did I know that he was sick. He then said to me all these papers that I am carrying; they are papers for vehicles for all the Members in the House. So, he was saying that you will be receiving your vehicles very soon. This was a man who did not discriminate at all and we pray that if we find someone, who is as good as Hon. Mguni and they should follow his footsteps. They should love and respect all of us. I am very sorry for the people of Matabeleland South. They have lost a gallant man.
I remember one day I was so low in Parliament. The women’s quota had no vehicles; men got vehicles first. I was with Hon. Alice Ndlovu then - she is here. I am sorry Mr. Speaker Sir. One day it was at night and others were just leaving us by the road side but the short man came and stopped; he asked why we were standing there and we told him that men have got vehicles and are leaving us behind. He then gave us a lift. When we wanted to give him coupons as payment, he refused to accept. He said God was going to bless him. This makes me wonder and I am always asking myself – I know there are people who love me here in this Parliament. I know we can differ in some instances but everyone is my relative. We might differ, yes, but we are all one people
I would like to urge other Hon. Members that we should love each other just like what Hon. Mguni used to do because we do not know what is going to happen next; only God knows. Hon. Mguni has gone, may be tomorrow it is me or it could be you. We are children from the same house.
I would like to thank Members from the opposition for not taking sides. They know death is death and they were there in their numbers. I would also like to thank the people from the ruling party who were also there in numbers, consoling each other. I would also like to thank the Speaker of the National Assembly. It he was at Hon. Tsvangirai-Java’s funeral as well. I heard him speaking and I was listening on television and I knew this is a good man; a father who does not discriminate. Mr.
Speaker Sir, I do not have much to say.
I would like to say Hon. Mguni, rest in peace. May you remember us and also through the spirit, may the issue of our vehicles and our welfare be dealt with. It is difficult since people have no money. I implore that it now as if our Parliament and our Government could only try to remember the Members of Parliament who are working for the people in the constituencies. I just want to say ‘rest in peace my uncle; rest in peace my Madhlala’. You have united us through love and all those in hospital, Senator Mathuthu and others, may they also get well in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
HON. SIKHALA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. I also rise to pay tribute over the sad loss of one of our own Members, Hon. Mguni who passed away last week. Mr. Speaker Sir, 31st July, 2019 will mark the first anniversary of the Nineth Parliament of Zimbabwe. That will be the first anniversary for the sitting of this Parliament. If you will check, within one year to concur with the submissions that have been made by
Hon. Nduna in this House, we have lost so far four Hon. Members of Parliament.
Firstly, we lost Hon. Member of Parliament for Lupane
Constituency, Hon. Gumbo, followed by the sad loss of Hon. Vimbayi Tsvangirai-Java, last week followed by the death of Hon. Mguni and yesterday we lost again our other Hon. Member of Parliament. Mr. Speaker, it is very sad that the Nineth Parliament seems to have been visited by this tragedy. I totally agree with Hon. Nduna that we need to pray to God so that legislators who have been elected here will be able to execute their duties as per their mandate and also be able to finish their terms of office. There is nothing that is as difficult to accept as death. Rufu rwuno rwadza, rwuno rema kurwutambira, no matter how strong you are.
Mr. Speaker Sir, there is only one important trend and development that I have noticed in this House that is changing the politics of our country on the outside world. I have seen exceptional solidarity among Members of Parliament during the period of bereavement. In Lupane, after the passing on of Hon. Gumbo, Members of Parliament from across the political divide went to go and mourn the death of their own. On Hon. Vimbayi Tsvangirai-Java, we witnessed and also saw Members of Parliament across the political divide thronging City Sports Centre to go and pay their last respect, including the Speaker of this House was also present. I was there in Plumtree last week. You would witness that the man who was being mourned on the day in question was exceptional. Almost 70% Members from this side were present. Unfortunately, the reality and the truth is that Members from the other side where the Hon. Member belonged to, we only witnessed about 15 or so Members of Parliament including the Leader of the House – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. MUTOMBA): Order,
order! Hon. Members, less noise in the House.
HON. SIKHALA: Even when the debate for passing condolence messages on this iconic Member of Parliament started in this House, we saw Members from the same side walking out. You could see their benches are all empty and you can compare with this other side Mr. Speaker, this is empirical evidence that there are other people who do not respect the death of other people. I can mention mention the
Members of Parliament from the political party that the late Hon. Mguni belonged to who attended the funeral, whom I saw there. Hon. Nduna was there, the Hon. Member seated next to Hon. Nduna was there, Hon.
Mudarikwa was there; Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi was there but the Acting
Chief Whip was not there – [Laughter] –
And Hon. Chinotimba was there. So, I want to urge Members of Parliament that death will visit all of us. As Members of Parliament from this side, why we went to mourn Hon. Mguni was for us to reciprocate the attendance of Members of Parliament from this other side we saw on the death of Hon. Vimbayi Tsvangirai-Java. If they could not have come, we could not have gone there as well. So, we were reciprocating good things and these people who are not able to mourn one of their own must learn from today that kufirwa kuchauyawo kwenyu. For example, we are not going to Zaka because we did not see him at Hon. Mguni’s funeral. You only mourn those who mourn with you. Mr. Speaker Sir, Hon. Mavetera was there at Hon. Tsvangirai-
Java’s funeral. Hon. Chombo was there and they were in the company of this Hon. Member seated next to Hon. Nduna, we saw them. Hon.
Chinotimba came and we also saw him in Plumtree and that defines ubuntu when you know that if one is bereaved, you have to go kunobata maoko and that is part and parcel of our African culture. So, I urge Hon. Members here Mr. Speaker Sir, that if one of us passes on, we must all be able to bereave among ourselves.
Secondly Mr. Speaker Sir, I learnt a lot on the passing on of Hon. Mguni. The first one being that, many people look flamboyant when they are moving in the streets as Members of Parliament. You would think that these people are high flyers but during the period of their death, when you visit their homesteads, we saw it during the period of the death of Hon. Chenjerai Hunzvi. He had a house that looked like a pigsty where the coffin was taken into. When we went to Plumtree Mr.
Speaker Sir, we saw an example of a homestead of an organised man. We must not look flamboyant in Harare but when we now go to our villages, we live in pigsties, in kraals and in cattle pens. So, I urge all Members of Parliament that vakai kumisha, patinokuvigaiwo, tione zvinodadisa sezvatakaona kwava Mguni – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Less noise Hon. Members.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, the third thing is that, I was with Hon. Mguni in two Parliamentary Portfolio Committees that I serve in this Parliament. One was that of Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services. Secondly, I served with him in the Committee of Justice,
Legal and Parliamentary Affairs. As the Committee on Defence, Home Affairs and Security Services, Mr. Speaker Sir, we had an outreach programme two months ago for us to visit the entire ten provincial provinces of Zimbabwe enquiring about the issues of birth certificates.
Hon. Mguni became my friend at that material time.
When we were travelling because of his good heart and we had finished Manicaland and Masvingo Provinces and we were getting to Matabeleland, he took us and said Hon. Members, today from breakfast until dinner, I am going to take care of you. He took us to one of some very fantastic shopping malls that has been built by one of our own Members of Parliament here, the Hon. Member for Insiza, Farai
Taruvinga, that one seated at the door there. When he took us there, Hon. Farai wanted to give us everything from food, drinks, whisk and everything but Hon. Mguni said no, it is a business, I will pay for everything. We were taken care of and Hon. Member Major Gen.
Sithole (Rtd) was there. We were taken care of at Hon. Farai’s place by Hon. Mguni. He refused all of us to pay a single dime and he paid a bill of more than RTGS$4 000. That was the man we are talking about. During the period and process of travelling together, we also became friends and started to interact – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Can we have less noise Hon.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, I had the opportunity to interact with him and I asked him to say, Hon. Mguni, who are you? He said, I was a member of the ex-ZIPRA forces. I fought during the liberation struggle and I was one of the high ranking military cadres in the ZIPRA high command.
HON. SITHOLE: On a point of order Mr. Speaker. The Hon. Member is debating a very painful motion but people are always making noise. So, this is not good Hon. Speaker Sir. We think that you are supposed to use your authority because this debate is a very painful debate. Thank you Mr. Speaker – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Thank you. Order Hon.
Members and this is what I said earlier on that with the noise that you are making in this House while we are debating such a sorrowful and painful motion, I really do not know where you are getting the guts to make such noises. How are you going to contribute and to debate if you are making such noises? Please, can we respect this motion because it is a painful motion? Thank you.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, it will be unfair if I will sit down without sharing with the House what our discussion by Hon.
Mguni was all about. He told me that after having served as one of the top military personnel for the ZIPRA forces, during the period of Gukurahundi, he escaped death by a whisker from the 5th Brigade and escaped via Botswana into South Africa where he lived from 1981 until he was convinced to come back to Zimbabwe by Ambassador Sen. S. K.
Moyo when he was Ambassador in South Africa.
This is a man who fought the liberation struggle for our country, who also went through a torrential period of torture and torment from the same people whom he liberated. He worked in South Africa and told me that he ended up being one of the top South Africa Revenue Authority officials to become an Executive Director. He left and abandoned his own motherland because of his own political beliefs but he forgave everything and came back after having been convinced by Sen. Ambassador S. K. Moyo to come and settle back in his country.
One lesson is that we should never torment each other because of different political opinions, because this country belongs to all of us. It is a painful episode where one of us who pass - had it not that he passed away, some of these things could not have been said. Even if you could have seen his mindset, the way he interacted even with opposition legislators, you could see that this man wants reconciliation in this country. He wanted the unity of all Zimbabweans – [AN HON.
MEMBER: Inaudible interjection]- not what that old woman is saying.
– [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members.
HON. SIKHALA: Mr. Speaker Sir, let me conclude by saying we all remember when he was Deputy Minister of Home Affairs in this country after he had been appointed by the former President Robert Gabriel Mugabe. Let me admit that for the first time, the best appointment the former President Mugabe did during his reign was the appointment of Hon. O. Mguni to become Deputy Minister of Home Affairs.
You still remember he made a mark when he was just a Deputy Minister during the Question and Answer session at this Parliament.
Some of us were not here during the 8th Parliament of Zimbabwe when a very important question was asked on the constitutionality of the behavior of police officers who were throwing spikes against motorists in the CBD and all over Zimbabwe.
Hon. Mguni told the country and the world that the conduct of the police officers was unconstitutional. If anybody has his own properties destroyed because of the conduct of the police officers, he must report that or sue the police officer on his personal capacity for the breach of the law. That was never expected of a Minister from ZANU PF to speak a statement that was against the police. That was the man. Because of those words and his achievement in this House, we honour and pay him tribute. May his dear soul rest in peace. I thank you.
^^HON. MABOYI: I would like to speak in Venda today
contributing issues like celebrating the life history of Hon. Mguni. Hon. Mguni was a true war veteran. He was a Chairman and was a rare, respected man. He was the man of almost everyone and he was a man who respected everyone, your political party did not matter. He used to teach everyone about how things were done in Parliament. As we are talking right now, we are faced with challenges on how we are going to do some of the things, but we are now saying if Hon. Mguni was still alive, he was going to teach us almost everything.
He was always encouraging everyone to talk in front of people. He was encouraging almost everyone to have self esteem. We are saying may his soul rest in peace. He stated two things about the vehicles for the Hon. Members, but as we are looking right now, we are still having so many questions about when and how we are going to get these cars. I still remember last Thursday when we were on third floor. I still respect the Chairman because when we went to collect our coupons, people were still queuing for the coupons and I went to Hon. Mguni and I talked to him that I cannot stand in the queue for such a long time and he answered me saying, we are going to look into the issue.
I am still wondering if this is going to be looked into. Hon. Mguni was going around and he did not care whether the person was from the opposition party or the ruling party. Even if people were making a lot of noise, he used to talk to them in a polite way. The Chairman, Hon.
Mguni has left us a legacy. In Venda, we were doing this when we were playing. If you touch someone, he could run around touching someone and that was a game by then. He was a man of respect and we should all be taking a good example looking at the way he was talking to people. He was the Chairman, especially if we are looking at the place where he used to work.
People are still in pain because they lost their father. We are talking about a man who had great melody. As I am talking right now, I am encouraging all the MPs from both sides. I want to give much respect to the rank of provinces where they talk Venda, Suthu, Shona, Ndebele and English. I am saying to you as you are the Hon. Members, you are supposed to be telling true stories about the places where you come from. As you first came here to this place, you were taught how to do your job, this is exactly what was being done by Hon. Mguni. I am encouraging everyone in this House to look at his example. Hon. Mguni was teaching people on how to do things, especially in this House, he was a great teacher. Even if he had gone, Hon. Mguni was a person who had respect for almost everyone. He could even listen to anyone who was talking, he could give an ear. Why can we not change our minds and the way we think?
Hon. Speaker, I respect you so much. I respect especially those people who are saying they know more about almost everything but they should have leant a lesson from the way Hon. Mguni was doing things. He was a great teacher. If someone is facing any challenges pertaining the way he is supposed to be doing his work, Hon. Mguni could teach everyone in a respectful manner. I am saying, Hon. Mguni, rest in peace. I know my Shona is not perfect but I think you can understand what I am saying. Thank you.
*HON. MATSUNGA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. Let me thank
the mover of this motion in remembrance of a hero, the late Hon. Mguni. He was a loving man; love speaks a lot about your background, the way you were brought up. We are in this Parliament; we have a lot of people who are always heckling. In the Eighth and Ninth Parliament, I never saw him heckling anyone; he was a unifier and peace lover. I was heartily touched by his untimely passing on. It is a pity that we learn after a good person has gone, we should have leant the good qualities that he possessed when he was still alive.
He went to the liberation war front, he is a war veteran. I remember in his history that he went to the liberation struggle at the age of 15 years, it was not easy. If one were to visualise a 15-year old going to protect and fight for the liberation war. Apart from his political affiliation, he loved everyone regardless of which political party one belonged to. He was a unifier and I want to pay my respects regarding the constituents he led in Matebeleland South. I extend my heart-felt condolences to the people of Mangwe Constituency, they lost a hardworking and loving man who is a hero.
Charity begins at home; Proverbs 3 says that man should fear God and because of that you will be able to go to heaven. He got his heaven when he was still on earth because of the work that he carried out in Mangwe Constituency, these were good works. During his lifetime, he showed direction. I respected and enjoyed one attribute that he was a true ambassador of God. What stems from that is that once you are gone, that Church will be there. Fear and know God because when we go to other people’s funerals, we hear all sorts of songs that are not palatable but others you find that they will be saying, ‘glory be to God.’
Let me also pay my respects as a Pastor and say that we should fear God. In this earth, there is always life after politics and I will reiterate it. The manner in which we conduct ourselves, the hatred between and amongst ourselves is not proper. The love that was exhibited by the late Hon. Mguni to both opposition and ruling party Members was exemplary. It showed that he was being driven by the hand of God. I saw the hand of God through the death of the late Hon.
Mguni. He was also a Member who would stand up for our rights as Members of Parliament in the Eighth and Ninth Parliament.
I feel pity for those that lost their lives for the reason that we do not have medicines or drugs in our hospitals. It is quite painful that an Hon. Member dies because he was being carried in a pick-up truck - he was trying to save because there was no fuel. He is then attacked by pneumonia and blood pressure and there are no drugs in hospital to place you back to good health. In a short period of time we have lost a lot of good Members of Parliament. My prayer is that none of us should die before we achieve our goal, before we attain our five-year terms. It hurts us, we do not expect such things.
I pay my respects to the late Hon. Mguni, I met him at Faramatsi where we were looking for a motor vehicle. He would hold you with his hand and treats you like a daughter. There are types of Hon. Members who would then say, ‘I am a Chief Whip remember, you come and see me, we would be able to sort out your programmes.’ I want to say so as a young female Parliamentarian because there are some Hon. Members who take advantage of young, smart female Members of Parliament and forget that we are brothers and sisters as Hon. Members. I am saying so because he showed me respect and would treat me as his own daughter that he would have left at home.
I respect him because some Hon. Members are very promiscuous; I want to pay him respect. There is a verse in Ecclesiastes 3 which says, ‘there is time for everything, there is time to be born, time to die, time to sow and there is a time to harvest’. So, time saw it proper to call the late Hon. Mguni, we die at different times as different people. Let us look for churches to fellowship from and become Christians like the late Hon. Mguni. I was challenged because he was one of the leaders in Guta RaMwari. There are other backbenchers in the church who do not even pay their tithes. I leant of his active participation in the church and I want to say, rest in peace. God willing, we shall meet, may your soul rest in peace. I thank you.
*HON. MKANDLA: Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir, for giving me
this opportunity to say a few words over the late Hon. Obedingwa Mguni; a hero amongst heroes, a man amongst men. Hon. Speaker, I got to know Hon. Mguni many years ago. I am one of the church members that Hon. Mguni used to go to; Guta Ramwari. I used to call him an Evangelist and the wife being one of the servers. He was a man full of love within the church. He did not take sides, he would not say I do not belong to Harare or Bulawayo but he would carry on God’s work wherever he was.
Hon. Sithole has already mentioned that he was a chairperson all over. Whenever there was a meeting in Guta Ramwari church, Evangelist Mguni would prepare food for all the church members and whenever there were monies to be contributed; Hon. Mguni would be the first to contribute. He was always exemplary and others would follow. It is not only Guta Ramwari that has lost; we have also lost Hon.
Mguni in this House.
Hon. Mguni worked very hard, he worked during the time of ZAPU, and he went to the Liberation Struggle and came back. I agree with everything that was said by Hon. Sikhala. Hon. Mguni’s family was brought up in the church. All his children know ZANU PF. When we are still alive, all parents should teach their children so that their children can follow their steps. What I am saying is the truth. We saw what happened at Hon. Mguni’s funeral. His daughter, Simpiwe stood up and started toi-toying wearing Guta Ramwari’s attire. She was trying to show that she was going to follow her father’s footsteps.
In the Eighth Parliament, Hon. Mguni was a Deputy Minister. He was a much respected men, and he never took sides. He was a man of his word. Those who were in the Eighth Parliament can be or witness and others have already said it before. Hon. Mguni would answer questions here in Parliament. He is one person who would note evade questions in Parliament – [AN. HON. MEMBER: Togarepi.]-
Mr. Speaker, what I would like to say in short is that Hon. Mguni has left a family…
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Hon. Member who has
said Togarepi, I do not know why you have said that. Can you withdraw?
HON. MOLOKELA: I apologise and I withdraw.
*HON. MKANDLA: Hon. Speaker, we must love one another.
Firstly, we went to bury Hon. Mguni and at his church service, there was only one Member of Parliament, Hon. Masenda from Hurungwe East. We must love one another; let us say things that come from the heart and not to just please other people. When we got to his homestead, I slept in the same room where the casket was placed and Hon. Dzuma came in the morning, he was one of those people who went to assist in digging the grave for Hon. Mguni. Let us love one another.
We heard that there will be a service for the late Hon. Member who has passed on, we must all go in our numbers to bid farewell to one of us, we are still crying.
I would like to thank the MDC Alliance, they have shown, through Hon. Mguni how much love they have. They were happy with the work that Hon. Mguni was doing. The opposition Members of Parliament were even more than the ZANU PF Members. I am not ashamed to say this because that is what I witnessed with my own eyes.
From now onwards, if an Hon. Member passes on, no matter he is from Mberengwa, Matabeleland North, Chipinge or wherever, we must all go in our numbers to show love. Let us be one people, we witnessed that at Hon. Mguni’s funeral. There was one Hon. Member at his service but here there are many who are talking about him. I thank you.
HON. MAPHOSA: My name is Lindiwe Maphosa and it is my
first time to debate in this august House. It is sorrowful that I have to debate on a motion of sorrow when we have to pay condolence messages to our fellow Member of Parliament, Hon. Obedingwa Mguni.
I come from Matabeleland South Province where Hon. Mguni came from. To me he was not only a fellow Member of Parliament but also a father. We might come from different political affiliations but what unites us as a people is where we come from. The culture of ubuntu.
Matabeleland South is known for being marginalised as a province. Hon. Obedingwa Mguni served in this House and in this Government in an endevour to make sure that Matabeleland South could rise to be equal to all the provinces in this country. Unfortunately, he died when he was still trying to make sure that dream comes to pass. He was fighting and moving for devolution of power and he thought by now the provincial councils will be elected but up to date, the motion is there on the Order Paper but it has not been debated, hence the Act has not been passed.
I know that it was his wish to see devolution coming to practice because it would have gone a long way in the curing of the marginalisation thing that we see in the curing of the marginalisation thing that you will see the marginalisation that we come across as the people of Matebeleland as a whole. It pains me to hear fellow Members in this House talking about how some of the Members especially from his political affiliation could not come to bid him farewell. This is a good example of what we are talking about even as we talk about Matebeleland South. I therefore urge all Members to take the spirit of the late Hon. Mguni to practice. He never segregated anyone. To him everyone was a human being unlike some of the Members who think that if you are in a different political party you cease to become a human being. You are like an animal that does not feel or think but I want to applaud my father Hon. O. Mguni who worked hard to make sure that we, the new Members who were coming into Parliament could get direction. Whenever I would err as it is common that to err is human and as human beings we err in a lot of things especially if you are starting on new things that you never did. He would call you outside unlike others who would want to make sure that you are undressed in front of everyone. - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - He would call you aside and say, “my daughter we do not do like this in the august House.”
Hon. Mguni was a person who would always show you love even when you had erred and for that I say we will miss him not only as a province but also as Parliament. The other Members have talked about how he was so passionate about our welfare issues. If you wanted to hear how our welfare issues were faring you would go to Hon. Mguni because you knew you would get an answer. You would know you would be comforted and you would come back from him with a comforted heart. - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear] - As a young person who came into Parliament at a tender age I say as all the young people in this we have lost a pillar of strength. We have lost a shoulder to lean on, a father and an advisor. I say to Hon. Mguni rest in peace. I thank you.
*HON. NYATHI: Hon. Speaker Sir, I rise to add my voice to the motion on Hon. Mguni’s death. Mrs Mguni and the whole family, friends of the Mgunis, Mangwe constituency, all Hon. Members in this House and the Guta raMwari church, we are sorry about this death. I saw it was important for me to stand up and speak about what happened on the day we went to bury Hon. Mguni. I had an opportunity to sit next to our Secretary Mrs Ndati and I was happy about the attendance. I saw that the figures of people from ZANU-PF were 110 and those from the MDC Alliance were 75. This showed that ....
HON. S. BANDA: On a point of order - with all due respect Mr. Speaker Sir, let the truth be told as the truth. I am not going to say any number here but what I just want to say is, let the truth be told as the truth. If the Hon. Member decides to mislead the House, then we will stand up. May the Hon. Member withdraw the numbers that he has just said? It is a lie – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Member, there is
no point of order with regards to what you have raised.
HON. NYATHI: I am a man of good reputation. I am an Elder of a church and I am an Hon. Member, I do not lie. I just want that to be on record – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I am not
taking any further point of orders. This is a very emotional debate. We are not here to contest.
*HON. NYATHI: Hon. Speaker Sir, I had mentioned these figures because I am very impressed with the attendance by members of the opposition. A good percentage attended the burial of Hon. Mguni. I very much appreciate what the members of the opposition did. It is important that it is put on record whilst we are grieving – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Member, you are challenging your Speaker now – [HON. BANDA: Hatisikuda kunyeperwa pano.] – Hon. Member! – [HON. BANDA: Let the truth be
*HON. NYATHI: I do not expect that from you. It is important for us to understand – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – that we learn from every death. I have learnt that the life of Hon.
HON. MOLOKELE-TSIYE: Hon. Speaker Sir, this august
House has rules and one of them that is very fundamental is about quorum. We need to double check the quorum.
HON. MUSABAYANA: I move that the debate do now adjourn.
HON. N. NDLOVU: I second.
Motion put and agreed to.
Debate to resume: Tuesday, 16th July, 2019.
On the motion of HON. MUSABAYANA, seconded by HON. N. NDLOVU, the House adjourned at Twenty Five Minutes past Five o’clock p.m. until Tuesday, 16th July, 2019.