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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY HANSARD 27 SEPTEMBER 2017 44-06
PARLIAMENT OF ZIMBABWE
Wednesday, 27th September, 2017
The National Assembly met at a Quarter-past Two o’clock p.m.
PRAYERS
(THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair)
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER
DELAYS IN COMING TO PARLIAMENT
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to inform the House
that owing to the Cabinet meeting today, most of the Cabinet Ministers will therefore be late for Question Time.
APOLOGIES RECEIVED FROM CABINET MINISTERS
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I also have received apologies from the Hon. Vice President and Minister of National Healing, Peace, and Reconciliation and the Minister of Mines and Mining Development.
VISITORS IN THE SPEAKER’S GALLERY
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have to acknowledge the
presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of a delegation from Zimbabwe
Christian Ministries Association. You are most welcome. – [HON.
MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] –
HON. MLISWA: Good afternoon Madam Speaker. You have
just mentioned that Cabinet Ministers are in Cabinet right now.
According to the Constitution Section 107 (2), it states that every Vice
President, Minister and Deputy Minister must attend Parliament and Parliamentary Committee in order to answer questions concerning matters for which he or she is collectively or individually responsible. We have Deputy Ministers and they work with their Ministers; they must equally respond.
Madam Speaker, we cannot have a situation where Cabinet
Ministers are not attending; the Deputy Ministers equally not attending, which then renders the whole Cabinet dysfunctional. Clearly, there are a lot of issues especially with the economy, the way it is right now. I was hoping that the President in his wisdom would equally have a situation where Cabinet does not happen on a Wednesday when there is a serious economic situation in the country. I was hoping that since Parliament is another arm of State which has an oversight role over Ministers, they could have been here to respond to a lot of issues which really need answers. The country is not in a good state and we would have wanted especially the Minister of Finance and Economic Development to be here to respond to a number of issues.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand what you are
saying and I agree with you Hon. Member. That is why I had to inform the House about the Cabinet meeting. It was not supposed to be done on a Wednesday but due to other circumstances it is taking place on a Wednesday.
HON. GONESE: I hear you Madam Speaker. In view of the important issue raised by Hon. Mliswa that we have got very serious matters concerning the nation and in view of your announcement that the Ministers will be delayed, it appears sensible to me that instead of having that one and a half hours eaten away when Hon. Members are asking questions to Deputy Ministers, some of whom may not be able to adequately respond to the issues raised since they do not sit in Cabinet – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – I was going to suggest Madam Speaker, that we defer Questions Without Notice so that perhaps we may anticipate that within an hour or so they would have come then we can deal with other business. It is a suggestion Madam Speaker, that in order for us to do justice to important matters facing the nation and us; we can then stand down Questions Without Notice say up to about 1515 hours in anticipation of extended time when they come. If we could have that understanding Madam Speaker.
While I am still on the floor, alternatively we can then say, with your understanding that question time will then have to be extended at the appropriate stage to enable us to be able to ask the relevant questions. I have also made an observation that in terms of our Constitution and in order to make Parliament accessible to the public, we normally have live coverage of this particular session but for the second week running, I do not know whether it is by accident or design that again today 27 September, 2017 as happened on 20 September, 2017 we do not have live coverage. We made that resolution in order to fulfill the provision of the Constitution which entails live coverage so that the people of Zimbabwe can follow, particularly on this day when it is critical that important matters are asked of Ministers. That is also why, in terms of Section 107, it is obligatory for Ministers to attend Parliament in order to answer questions and this is also strengthened by our Standing Orders. So for that reason, I just wanted clarification Madam Speaker.
THE HON DEPUTY SPEAKER: If I may start with the issue of live coverage, I am equally surprised. I think I am going to ask
Administration so that it checks what is happening. Then on the issue of Ministers, the bench is full. I have seen Deputy Ministers answering questions ever since I came to this House. So, I think those with questions which can be answered by Ministers who are here can proceed to ask their questions.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Lands and Rural Resettlement. What is Government policy with regards to deceased estates? I am asking because the children are now being chased away from their deceased fathers’ properties. Your Ministry is now causing confusion in that regard.
What is Government’s policy and how are you going to look into that because orphans are being abused.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LANDS AND RURAL
RESETTLEMENT (HON. CHIKWAMA): Government’s policy
does not allow a deceased person’s land to be taken away by anyone. Once that happens you should make a report. Furthermore, there is an inheritance process when one is deceased. The law that is in accordance with the deceased estates should take its course. We know that there are others who quickly take over land from widows as soon as their husbands are deceased. Ever since we came into that Ministry, women who have had their land taken were having their land restituted. As women MPs, we urge you to tell the women that once land has been allocated and the husband is now deceased, the wife should go and live on the farm. It will cost Government a lot of money when they have to send its officers to go and bar the new invaders on that land. We urge women to follow the law as regards the law of inheritance.
*HON. R. N. S. MAWERE: Thank you Hon. Minister. Yesterday, an orphan was removed from the barns of a house and was put in an area with thorns where the land has not been prepared. Can I be allowed to bring a paper or to bring the said family to you so that you can assist them?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is exactly what the
Minister said in her response, so there is no need for you to say you will go and do it. Go and do it.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: The Minister answered very well but I
think there are some gaps because when people want to report after losing their land it is a challenge. Where are they supposed to report? Are they supposed to go to the person who issued them the land because their system as a Ministry is not ideal at all? Where are they supposed to report? If people go to the Minister, will the Minister not request one to make an appointment before they go to see him? So, who exactly are they supposed to see and where are they supposed to go and report because we know that these people can be tricked. They cannot also go to the Permanent Secretary. So, those who are losing their land, to whom exactly are they supposed to report?
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you Hon.
Chinotimba for the question. Everything is done procedurally. When someone loses his/her land, they can go to the district and if they do not get any results they go to the next office. If it still fails, they can go to the Deputy Minister or the Minister. I always say that we do have an open door policy and there are a lot of women whom we gave back their land. If a woman or man comes and says that they have lost their land,be it an orphan or anyone - I can give an example…
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We asked the Minister and
she is explaining, so may we please give her a chance to explain.
*HON CHIKWAMA: I can give an example of Hon. Mahoka; she brought her children who had lost their land for years and we went and solved the issue and they got their land back. If you lose your land, your first port of call is the district, if you do not get anything fruitful; you go up the ladder until you get to the highest office.
HON. S. CHIDHAKWA: Thank you Madam Speaker. Hon.
Minister, the offices that you are talking about, are the very offices that Hon. Chinotimba said they are engaging in corruption. They are the ones who facilitate the loss of land. So, can you clarify to this House the mandate of the Lands Commission and their parameters? In our opinion, it is the Land Commission that is supposed to be doing that.
*HON CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the supplementary question. When you talk of corruption, there is a law against it, you are supposed to expose that person and they will be brought to book through the courts.
On the issue of the Lands Commission, we know that the Lands
Commission is in the Constitution and I am sure you are aware of their mandate. They do a periodic audit and they also deal with land dispute. They are the ones who deal with disputes.
*HON. NDUNA: The reason why there is a rampant issue of such occurrences it is because of ….
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please ask the supplementary question?
HON. NDUNA: I have been advised to speak in Shona. In
Chegutu, there is a woman, a lands officer whose husband is in Kadoma. So, if you remove a male and take him to another town and bring the wife in that area, there will not be anyone to solve that issue. So, what is left in Chegutu is that they are losing their land, it was taken by the wife, and they are failing to solve the problems.
So my question is, why do you have an attitude that once you remove a man from the lands you put the wife who is married to this man.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order! Is that an example, you have been talking about Chegutu. Order, Order Hon Nduna, if I call for order, you sit down; you are not a new person in the House. Please pose your question and ensure that it is specific.
*HON. NDUNA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What is causing these challenges is that -[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]Hon. Minister, I do not think it is right to remove the lands officer who is male and then put his wife. This problem cannot be solved in this manner. I gave an example that you removed a lands officer in Chegutu and put him in Kadoma and then you put the wife in Kadoma. I am saying that we cannot solve these challenges if the situation is like that.
You should put other officers who are not related in different areas. Why not put people who are not related to ensure that the challenge is solved.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Nduna, this is supposed
to be a supplementary question. Please pose your question in relation to children who lost their land because their parents are deceased not the transfer of Ministers.
*HON. NDUNA: Minister, why is it that people who are related are still given posts within the land offices instead of taking people who are not related, for example in Chegutu and Kadoma?
HON. CHIKWAMA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I realised
Hon. Nduna’s question is related to the transfer of husband and wife. We are the Ministry of Lands; we are there to allocate land. In terms of employment of people, it has nothing to do with us. There are other Ministries to deal with that. I thank you.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you very much Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Health. First of all, I would like to appreciate the efforts by the Ministry for making sure that there are breast cancer screening facilities in three hospitals, that is Mpilo Central, Harare Central and Mutare Central Hospital - even though they are not enough for the population, but I would like to appreciate their efforts. At the same time I would like to appreciate their efforts of making sure that breast cancer screening is for free, because some of the hospitals were charging $50 and Mpilo Central Hospital was charging $25.00.
My question is that, as much as there is breast cancer screening, let us assume a person has been diagnosed with breast cancer, is there any medication for that? is there any chemotherapy to make sure that whoever has been diagnosed is treated. I would also like to thank NAC for procuring those machines. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank the Hon. Member for her appreciation. Yes, it is very important for the nation to focus on cancer, because it has become one of the biggest killers of our nation. Early cancer screening is one of the …
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Minister. I
feel this question is very important to every Member of Parliament who is in this House. If you can listen to the Minister who is giving his answer because you are going to help your constituents. However, I hear voices of people who are making meetings here.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order – [HON.
MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I hear what he is saying.
HON. NDUNA: Madam Speaker, I agree with what you are
saying. The voices are overshadowing his voice. I also believe that the administration in terms of ICT needs to raise the volume of these speakers so that we also hear.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. I
think administration has taken note of that.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you very much Hon. Speaker.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you please raise your
voice.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: My apologies. Hon. Speaker I have got a bit of a cold. However, I wanted to say the Ministry is focusing on cancer treatment because it has become one of the biggest killers in the nation. Early screening means the difference between life and death, so to afford our people an early screening means we have got a chance to then either allow the patients to go for surgery then chemotherapy. We actually have invested in both chemotherapy and operational guidelines both in Harare and Bulawayo. So the screening is very important. That is why we have emphasised that it must be free and affordable to everyone. Thank you.
*HON. MAHOKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My question is
directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. May you enlighten me on Government policy on the issue of people who are having challenges because they were given Identity Cards written alien? Right now people are getting new Identity Cards. I do not know what Government policy is for those who were given Identity Cards written alien. What are they supposed to do? The law says if a person is born in Zimbabwe, he is Zimbabwean. So, I would want the Minister to enlighten us on what Government policy is concerning the issue of children and people who are suffering because of their Identity Cards written alien.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. The policy we have in
Zimbabwe says, if a foreign mother or father comes to Zimbabwe and a child is born, the birth certificate will indicate the country of origin of his father which is alien as she mentioned. That is the policy we have.
We have not changed it to other means but it is there, it stands for now –
[HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members! Now,
you are debating among yourselves.
*HON. MAHOKA: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I would want
to thank the Deputy Minister for his response. I do not think what the Minister is saying is true. He is reading the Constitution and interpreting it wrongly because as I speak right now, if I am to ask the Minister to go out to an area where birth certificates are being issued, children who were given Identity Cards and were named aliens yet they were born
here are facing challenges. Madam Speaker, I can go and collect those Identity Cards and birth certificates as evidence that they were born here. They are not able to get Identity Cards written citizen. That is happening here in Zimbabwe. I thank you.
*THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you are
saying that children were given birth certificates written alien. Now they want to acquire Identity Cards, they are getting them and they are written alien.
+HON. MGUNI: Thank you Madam Speaker. This question has come out on several occasions here in Parliament. Hon. Mahoka has asked that question again today standing there.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, if you can
help me. This question is very important to everyone here because people are registering. If you can just give the answer in English so that those who understand Shona can hear you – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] - Before you answer there is a point of order HON. GONESE: On a point of order Madam Speaker. I have got
a very important point of order. In terms of our Constitution, Section 6 to be precise, we have got languages which are recognised and I believe that all Hon. Members are free to express themselves in whichever language they feel free. I believe Madam Speaker, I do not know whether it was a ruling or a suggestion that the Hon. Deputy Minister should answer in English was not appropriate…
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. You did not understand me Hon. Member.
HON. GONESE: Some of us are trying very hard to learn Ndebele
so that we can understand what is being said. I think it is important for all of us to learn these languages – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- I believe that the suggestion was unfortunate.
THE HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Hon. T. Khumalo. Can
we have order in the House? Can we please understand each other here?
There is no need for you to make noise.
The person who posed the question was Hon. Mahoka and she put in a supplementary question. Now, the Minister was answering – so as the Chair, I knew this question was very important to everyone. So, I thought if he uses the language which everyone in this House understands, it is going to be better – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- He is there, he can answer. After answering in Ndebele, he can again answer in Shona because that one does not understand.
+THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. This question has always been brought here because people want to understand. This matter emanates from the Act which states that a person born of a foreigner, that person’s birth certificate or national identity documents should indicate that he or she is an alien. Section 38(2) of our Constitution, says something else. It says a person who continuously and lawfully resides in Zimbabwe for ten years becomes a citizen. Again if you go to the indigenisation policy it requires that a person’s background should be verified so that the benefits enjoyed are not equivalent to a citizen. That caused the Ministry of Home Affairs to indicate that the person is alien or a foreigner coming from outside so that he does not benefit equally with a citizen.
What is important is this, we should, as Home Affairs and I remember I promised Parliament to take that Act and realign it to the Constitution. This is what is obtaining right now. If one of the parents is a citizen and another a foreigner, in this programme that we have their children will be given the registration documents for free as Zimbabweans. I thank you.
*HON. CHINOTIMBA: Supplementary question. On that issue
of people facing challenges, I wanted you to enlighten us that you said that no money would be paid for birth certificates but in some areas they had begun charging people. Are you going to come back because in those areas people were not able to get their national identity cards because of lack of funds? Are you going to go back to those areas to ensure that people get their IDs so that they get the same privileges as in other areas?
*HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, there are areas where our
teams started issuing birth certificates before the Statutory Instrument came into force. So, we requested the teams to go back and the other teams will go back again next week to start the exercise of issuing free birth certificates and death certificates. I thank you.
HON. ADV. CHAMISA: My supplementary question goes to the
Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. We realise that in other jurisdictions that are now obtaining across the whole world, registration of birth certificates, birth records, NSSA numbers, allocation of all other numbers that are important in the life of a citizen is now being done online in real time as and when a person is born so that you do not need to do things in a primitive way whereby you go into the various areas to say come and register. Are we going to see, in terms of policy, a situation whereby Government is going to introduce an online eregistration process so that you just get your birth registration, national drivers licence number which is activated upon you going into a process of qualifying for passport. This is modern – I was Minister of ICT and it is very simple. Are you having problems in Government so that I can come back to assist you? – [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.]-
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Hon. Member for the pertinent question. However some of the things should be directed to VID, Ministry of Transport. What is within us is that we have tried and we have moved forward. We need the backing from these network systems so that when we are on line, they do not go down so that we produce the civic registration correctly. At the moment we have also moved a step higher.
If you look at the birth certificates that we issue now, they already have ID Numbers. We issue a birth certificate that has got an ID Number now so that when you are 16 years, you just go to the office and collect your ID. We are improving. I think the Hon. Member will bear with us and see that we are coming up. We are a nation that is developing and we will be moving up there where he wants us to be. I thank you.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker...
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, when
the previous Madam Speaker was there, she was talking about the issue of registration. One of the things that she insisted on was that it is a critical issue because of the process that we are going through, and if we were coming up for supplementary questions that relate to registration, honestly I think you should give time for people to raise their questions because that is what we are going through right now. It does not make sense that you are stopping questions around registration.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER (HON. DZIVA: Hon.
Misihairabwi-Mushonga, our procedures say that we can only have four supplementary questions on each question so that is why I am saying this is the last question.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: I agree because my
supplementary question would have been the fourth one, but I am saying given the issue that you are raising right now, the previous Madam Speaker said she was varying the processes because she wanted everybody to understand the registration process, but now you are going back on your work. Anyway, if you are saying fourth, then the fourth one will be a supplementary question that I am going to raise Madam Speaker and I hope you will allow me to do so.
*HON. MATAMBANADZO: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary is Minister, may you please go and read this law correctly. There is Section 38 (2) which says if a person has stayed for ten years in that country and they have children who have stayed in that country, they should automatically qualify for citizenship. This thing is affecting us and you should take it seriously. Sorry, I have vacillated into English. You need to seriously consider this issue because I am an urban Member of Parliament in Kwekwe. I have ten big mines. There were aliens that were employed by these big mines and they now have children.
When you were doing delimitation, for me to be an MP for that constituency, there were 21 000 people and I and my counterpart were arguing on the 12 000 voters and the rest are aliens and it is causing us problems. These people are key persons who hold positions in our party and they are voting. What are we doing and what is our way forward? It does not work. It is irrelevant whether it is MDC or ZANU PF. They have positions and they are not voting either for ZANU PF and even the MDC...
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Matambanadzo. Order Hon. Members. Hon. Matambanadzo when we have given you an opportunity to ask a question, we want you to go straight to the question and not to give other explanations.
+ THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. That is what I explained on Section 38 (2). I was speaking on the indigenisation policy. What he was saying is that those who are of the same thinking like Matambanadzo should meet with the Registrar General and discuss this matter so that they understand what the law says about this matter. I thank you Madam Speaker.
Hon. Phiri having stood up to contribute.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Phiri.
HON. MLISWA: The question I want to ask the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs is going in circles. When is his Ministry bringing a Bill to Parliament to align this to everything that he says? The problem is that the Bill has not come to Parliament and the day the Bill comes to Parliament, all this will not be a problem. When are you bringing a Bill to Parliament to align this so that all these issues are dealt with?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. This is a noble question Hon. Mliswa. I am aware that Mr. Mudede the Registrar-General has done that Bill. It went to Ministry of Justice. It is on its way. We would like to speed up so that it comes here. I thank you Madam Speaker.
HON. PHIRI: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order
Hon. Phiri?
HON. PHIRI: Madam Speaker, Parliament is too small for us to all sit in the front. This side we have been standing and nobody sees us. May be we are dark in complexion or what? Parliament is not the front only, even at the back there are Hon. Members. – [HON. MEMBERS:
Inaudible interjections.] -
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
there. Order Hon. Members. Order Hon. Mandipaka.
HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: Madam Speaker, I am
beginning to think that this is sexual harassment because he did not say so when the men were standing up and you think you can abuse me because I am a woman. I take it serious. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home affairs – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] – [AN HON. MRMBER: On a point of order.]
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. I am not
taking any point of order. I have recognized Hon. MisihairabwiMushonga.
+HON. MISIHAIRABWI-MUSHONGA: My question to the
Deputy Minister of Home affairs is, to be clear, if you are talking about people making applications, do they approach you with money or not? I spoke to the RG yesterday and he said you have put in place some other regulations that those with IDs should go and change their alien IDs so that it indicates that they are now citizens for free. From what I am hearing, it seems the Minister is saying there are some regulations which are to come but the Registrar General is saying something else. I was of the belief that you were going to be very clear on this matter that we have agreed on this and also that the Treasury has also agreed that people should go and register for free. Now, I do not know what is going on. Can you be clear what the policy is on this matter about people whose identification should be changed. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): I thank you Madam Speaker. I explained clearly that the policy which is in place now, at the time when we were doing this programme, the law provides that if a child is born of parents where one is a Zimbabwean and another a foreign citizen, that child should be registered for free as a citizen of Zimbabwe.
+ HON. M. M. MPOFU: I thank you Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development. I request the Deputy Minister to explain because I was sent by my constituents. There are two mines which used to help my people in my constituency. They have gone for three years without being opened. What is the reason for that so that I may go back and give feed back? I thank you.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINES AND MINING DEVELOPMENT (HON. F. MOYO): Thank you Madam Speaker. I
actually did not clearly get the question, if the Hon. Member could assist me.
+HON. M. M. MPOFU: I thank you. Deputy Minister of Mines and Mining Development, I have been sent by people to ask what has caused the two mines which were closed in my constituency not to open.
HON. F. MOYO: Thank you Madam Speaker. Let me talk about
Mali Green first. The mines are in the same area, in the Hon. Member’s constituency. Mali Green is owned by two off-shore shareholders. They closed the mines on account of non-viability of business. We have recently had applications from our youths from the Midlands Province to acquire limited rights over Mali Green so that they can try and open the mines and operate. We referred the applications to one of the owners of the mine who are Freda Rebbeca Mine. It is my understanding that paper work is in process and it has been approved. A Committee that was put together by the community members is in fact going to finalise that transaction. It is my belief that once that is done; limited rights are given, it is now up to the local community to raise funding and reopen the mine.
The other mine which he is talking about, which the Hon. Member called Silobela, I am not sure which one he is referring to. If he can be specific, then I can respond to that one.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think the other one which is
very specific Hon. Member, you can put it in writing for the Hon.
Minister.
HON. MAONDERA: On a point of order. Thank you Madam
Speaker. My point of order is in relation to investigation of the disappearance of Itai Dzamara. The Minister of Home Affairs made an undertaking and there is a court order to that effect that this august
House must be updated regularly. The last update that we had from the Minister - from last year, we have never had an update of the investigation. Can this august House be favoured with an update on the investigation on the disappearance of Itai Dzamara, unless if the investigation has also disappeared. We are worried and we need to know what happened to Itai Dzamara.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Maondera, this is
question and answer segment. What I will do is that I will allow you after the question and answer session to ask the Hon. Minister when he can respond to what you are talking about but at this moment, let us remain focused to the question and answer.
*HON. PHIRI: Thank you Hon. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services and in her absence, to the Deputy Minister. My question is, it is in relation to
NSSA. Pensioners were given a month’s period in which they should re-register using the biometric registration, BVR. There are a lot of pensioners who are in remote areas some of whom do not have registration cards. They have been given a timeline stretching to the 30th and this is insufficient time. If there is anyone who is not registered by the 30th, they will no longer be able to receive their pension. Are you not going to extend the period so that people can access their pensions? I thank you.
*THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE,
LABOUR AND SOCIAL SERVICES (HON. ENG.
MATANGAIDZE): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank Hon. Phiri for this pertinent question. The programme where we are undertaking biometric registration for NSSA beneficiaries has been ongoing for a year. We are getting to the end of that particular programme. We once extended the programme so as to reach a lot of people.
Madam Speaker, what we are doing is that we are taking NSSA staff into the remote areas to educate people about the need for them to be registered using the biometric registration system. If there are certain remote areas that we have not yet reached which he feels may be disadvantaged, please submit the names so that we can send teams that will attend to their issues on the ground. It is important that we conclude this programme. I thank you.
*HON. CHINANZVAVANA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary question to the Deputy Minister of Public Service, Labour and Social Services is related to this biometric registration that you want pensioners to be registered whilst using plastic money when they already have problems accessing money at banks where they stay overnight, how are they going to access this money? Telecash, Ecocash and other forms of money transfers and plastic monies are not enabling them to get money. How good is this card going to help them when they are going to spend the night at home without food?
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
thank the Hon. Member for her question. I believe we have all understood the issue of plastic money. As a country, we agree that it is useful, but the problems you are talking about that if one has plastic money and there is no hard cash, they can access goods even in the remote areas. What we should be working towards is to have a lot of point of sale machines that accept use of swipe all over the country. It is a good suggestion that pensioners should not be sleeping at the bank, but should use their plastic cards to access their money. As Government, we should be using plastic money so that people can have access. We do agree that NSSA has never defaulted in giving pensioners their pensions. Two or three months ago, we increased the amounts that are due to pensioners – [HON. MEMBERS: A-ah!] – There is no problem with accessing money; people can access their money through point of sale machines, they can swipe. I thank you.
*HON. MACHINGURA: Thank you Madam Speaker. We want
to find out if our Ministers are living with us in this country. It is incorrect to say that cash is not a problem out there. Even if you have money and you want to buy using your plastic card, you buy a product worth $5 for $10. If the pensioner were to do that which is a daily occurrence, the Minister is misdirecting himself. Is he now saying that he is going to ensure that there will not be such problems? I thank you. *HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker for
the opportunity that you have given me so that he can fully appreciate. The point that I made was that if you are a pensioner and you are receiving $80 per month from NSSA, NSSA is transferring the said $80. NSSA has no problems in transferring the $80 that is due to you. The problem might arise when you do not access that money as hard cash, tele-banking or whatever form of banking. I went further to explain Madam Speaker, that the issue of plastic money can then alleviate such problems if there are numerous point of sales because you can buy anything using your plastic money. If the plastic money is not working, it is a question that should be directed to the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development so that plastic money can become user friendly. There are people that are corrupt who then charge a $5 item for $10. That is corruption and it is illegal. Let us sit down and ensure that we do things that are good for our country. I thank you.
*HON. SARUWAKA: Thank you Madam Speaker. My point of
order is to request the Deputy Minister - we have saying ealier today that the Deputy Ministers seem not to know – [THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Point of order haisiri yekuti maDeputy Ministers, taura kuti point of order yacho ndeyei.] – My point of order is that we ask the Hon. Deputy Minister to withdraw the statement that queues have come to an end. He should not lie in this august House. He took an oath to tell the truth and he comes here to say that there are no problems about queues. Can we accept that as a Parliament? Can he please withdraw that statement that queues are not a problem in Zimbabwe because people are sleeping queuing at the banks and that problem has been persisting for more than a year now? Can he please withdraw?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Member, unfortunately
I did not hear anywhere or maybe I did not quite get where he talked about queues but if the Hon. Deputy Minister said something, please clarify your point.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: I think if Hon. Saruwaka is to
listen carefully to what I am saying; the issue that I have explained to him is that we were considering a question focusing on NSSA. I said NSSA does not have a problem in paying out pensions and we have increased the pensions from $60 to $80. So, this money is transferred into people’s accounts. NSSA does not have a challenge in transferring that money into the accounts. If there is a challenge that a person prefers hard cash or ecocash, that is an external problem and is different from the one that I am talking about. That is why I have redirected this to say deal with it through the Minister of Finance and Economic Development, but I will continue to reiterate that the use of plastic money is in line with global trends and you can access whatever service you want with plastic money. If there is a challenge that the point of sale machines are limited, then it is a challenge. What we should be asking is - what can we do to increase the point of sale machines to ensure that the card is used? I think Hon. Saruwaka understands what I am saying.
*HON. CHIBAYA: On a point of order. It is a point of privilege in terms of Standing Order Number 69 (d) and is in connection with the response given by the Deputy Minister regarding the pensions which are being paid to pensioners. Hon. Minister, you said that you have raised the pension amount from $60 to $80 – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible
interjections.] –
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order Hon. Members. I
have given Hon. Chibaya the floor to raise his point of order. He has not even finished and I have not even given my ruling. I do not know, have you become speakers in this august House?
*HON. CHIBAYA: Thank you Madam Speaker. What I am
saying is that it is not right to give false evidence to the nation. The pensioners are still getting $60, not $80 that he mentioned in this House. So, I want him to correct that statement.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I do not think this is a point of
order. This is not a point of order and it does not follow.
*HON. MAHOKA: My question goes back to the Minister. What is Government policy, he talked of pensioners that they put money into the pensioners’ accounts hoping that they will access their money using plastic money. In the rural areas where we have the aged who are the owners of the pensions, there are no point of sale machines. What does Government policy say because this was not only meant for people in the urban areas? There are aged and elderly people in the rural areas. What then are you saying about it? How can they access their money without any challenges?
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, this
question is clear. The Hon. Members are concerned that the plastic money is not user friendly in rural areas.
*HON. ENG. MATANGAIDZE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I
responded to that aspect. Implementation of financial policies is under the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. If there is a challenge that the point of sale machines are not available in the rural areas, it is the relevant Ministry that looks into that. If there is a challenge that our elderly are unable to use swipe machines, the challenge is not in our Ministry but in the Ministry of Finance and
Economic Development.
Madam Speaker, all countries the world over transact using plastic money. That is the global trend in terms of development. Hon. Chamisa was talking of E-Commerce. That is where we are moving towards so people must be taught how to use plastic money and that is what we should be doing because that is the global trend. Let us utilize plastic money.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think this issue to do with
plastic money would rather better be dealt with by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development. So, if your supplementary question is in relation with that issue, I think let it wait for the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
HON. DR. KHUPE: My question to the Minister is what he
should be alive to is that the majority of Zimbabweans live in the rural areas and these are the pensioners that we are talking about. There are no facilities in the rural areas for swiping. This is why they sleep in queues all the time so they can get their money. Therefore, something has to be done. Yes, we appreciate that we must move with the times but we do not have those facilities in the rural areas.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think I had given a ruling on
this issue when I said this issue can be effectively dealt with by the Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. MASHAYAMOMBE: On a point of order Madam
Speaker. The only people that are being given a chance to speak are from the MDC side. Why are we not being given a chance to ask questions?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: There is no point of order
Hon. Mashayamombe. The Speaker has discretion to give people the opportunity to ask questions. It was Hon. Phiri, Hon. Mahoka, and before then was Hon. Mpofu. All those are ZANU-PF unless you are suggesting that all the three Members are now MDC.
*HON. MUTSEYAMI: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
question is directed to the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs. What is the deliberate policy that you are crafting to protect the people; especially at bus termini and commuter ranks across the country, bearing in mind that the ordinary person is facing quite a lot of challenges as a result of touts?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Police operate under POSA where they have to see that there is peace and order in any environment. Then there are the Local Authorities that have their own by-laws to ensure that there is a policy in each city that is followed. That policy is handed to the police for implementation and maintenance of order. The tout issue has been brought to us in a way that people have indicated that their fines are too little. You arrest a tout today and get him to court and he is fined $10 and goes back soon after to continue with his operations.
So, we have to come up with a policy that has hefty fines or imprisonment terms for the touts so that they stop what they are doing in the cities.
HON. MUTSEYAMI: My supplementary question on the issue
of touts is that it is not necessarily in Harare alone. It is all over the country. Is it to do with discipline to manage the touts or it is to do with Government creating employment to manage the touts? What is the problem bearing in mind that this thing is so broad and is mostly affecting the ordinary person who boards public transport. Are we, as a Government supposed to respond simply because a life would have been lost like what happened at Fourth Street yesterday? Now, the police is fully in force at Fourth Street but all along things were happening but nothing was being done. It is only yesterday when we experienced the death of a Zimbabwean that the police came in full force and now there is order but all along there was chaos. What is the problem?
HON. MGUNI: The Harare City Council has declared the area an
illegal bus stop or illegal pirating place. Therefore the police are now there to enforce that policy and that is correct. A lot of policies in various cities as the Hon. Member said need to be put in place by the local authorities and then police will come in and enforce the laws in different or various cities.
HON. MANDIPAKA: My question is to the Deputy Minister of Local Government Hon. Chingosho. Given the unfortunate incident of a man that was killed at an illegal pick-up point yesterday, which makes sad reading for Zimbabweans, how soon is your Ministry and Government going to introduce a reliable, cheap and efficient bus transport system in the urban set-up so that we do away with touts and decongest our cities?
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT
(HON. CHINGOSHO): The Ministry of Local Government which is responsible for urban local authorities is in the process of coming up with a Bill in order to improve the transport system in urban authorities. In that Bill, there is going to be some designated points where bus operators are to operate. So, it is in the process and it is going to be introduced in this House very soon.
*HON. MACHINGURA: On a point of order! Thank you Madam Speaker. Every Wednesday, as Members of Parliament we come here to pose questions to Ministers but when we look in our Hansard, you will observe that the Members of Parliament who are given the chance to pose questions are the same Members, always.
Furthermore, if you look at supplementary questions across the political divide, it is the same Members of Parliament that are given the chance again. It is my plea to you Hon. Madam Speaker, to describe a Member if you do not know their name, because they should not be merely standing up and not being afforded a chance to pose questions yet they represent the people’s interests. It is my plea that that issue should be set right. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order, order! I have heard
what you have said Hon. Member. In addition, the majority of those Hon. Members are slow in rising up. Yes, it is the truth but the chief Whips from both political parties should assist us in doing that job.
They are not doing that. However, the rules of Parliament gives the Speaker the discretion to pick any Hon. Member that they would want to pose a question.
HON. MAJOME: May the Deputy Minister confirm that in this
Bill that he has just told the august House, he will introduce in order to bring an urban public transport system of buses that are efficient, safe and affordable. Is he going to respect the devolution of power that was given to local authorities that is in the administration of transport?
In terms of coordinating, also with the police in terms of law enforcement as Hon. Members were asking, it seems to be a law enforcement agent and a local government issue as well as transport issue. Can he confirm that he is going to respect the provision that devolve power, including the power to local authorities to manage transport in their systems and to ensure that they cooperate with the police, coordinate and ensure that there is law and order on our roads. I thank you.
HON. CHINGOSHO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like
to thank Hon. Majome for the supplementary question. Yes, indeed, that is going to be considered in that Bill, devolution of the current system and in that new arrangement, local authorities also realising that transport is one of the sources of income for them. They will be given a part to play in that system. The police will be asked to assist the local authorities to make sure that the system operates smoothly.
Questions Without Notice were interrupted by THE
TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: When we started, the Ministers were
said to be on their way to this august House but up until now they have failed to pitch up. The word that I want to spread is that the world over; Parliaments are respected when they are sitting. Cabinet is equally respected. Cabinet, especially on a Wednesday, to show that the President is operating within the law in terms of Section 90 (1), in terms of respecting the Parliament in conjunction with Section 116 in upholding the Constitution, we want the word to reach the President through a written document that they should respect Parliament and enable the Cabinet Ministers to come and answer questions.
We had Hon. V.P. Mphoko represented by Hon. Kanengoni and V. P. Hon. Mnangagwa was represented by Hon. Sibanda but to ask them issues that require the attention of a Vice President, we are unable to. We plead with you to inform His Excellency that Parliament is disappointed with the fact that the Ministers are not respecting our
Parliament, bearing in mind that we are the people’s representatives. We have problems that are facing this country, the President even talked about it; we are always on record talking about it. If they had turned up late, we would say that they were still running late because they were doing other duties. There should not be a parallel structure in terms of Parliament.
Cabinet can be done at night or even Thursday, but for Parliament and Cabinet should run concurrently, it is not good. This is what we are going to think about that there should be a Government that respects the people and Parliament, and that Parliament should be given its due respect. The Deputy Ministers are shouldering a lot of responsibilities, this should be corrected. I thank you.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have heard your concerns
Hon. Chamisa. I believe you were clearly informed that the Executive which is a superior body was sitting…
*HON. ADV. CHAMISA: There is nothing superior about the
Cabinet. Yes, it is not a superior arm; it is the other arm of the State.
*THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: As you are aware, the
President was away, so we believe that Hon. Ministers, once they are done with their Cabinet meeting will come to this august House. We have heard what you have said. We have heard your concerns; any programme should not coincide with the Question and Answer session of Parliament. We are going to give it to the Executive.
HON. MLILO: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Hon. Deputy Ministers for coming en masse and for outlining and as well for articulating Government policy. We should commend them for coming like this and we hope they will do the same going forward - [HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.] - Thank you.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
JOBS TO YOUTHS IN GOKWE-NEMBUDZIYA CONSTITUENCY
- HON. WADYAJENA asked the Minister of Youth
Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment to explain to the House when the 4500 jobs will be available to the youths of Gokwe Nembudziya Constituency, considering that the Ministry has been registering 500 youths per ward through youth officers.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT,
INDIGENISATION AND ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT (HON.
TONGOFA): I seek your indulgency Hon. Speaker for me to bring the answers for Question 1 and 2 next week.
HON. GONESE: Thank you Madam Speaker. I just noted, I was here last week and this question was deferred. The Hon. Minister was not present and I just wanted it to be placed on record that the Minister and his deputy must take the business of Parliament seriously because last week again the question was deferred. We have not seen the
Minister. I know that today there is Cabinet but the Minister, we have never seen him in this august House. I know that Hon. Zhuwao is not a
Member of Parliament but he is a Minister. He may not be a Member of
Parliament …
Hon. Wadyajena having stood up.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Order Hon. Members. Hon.
Wadyajena, can you please sit down. I have given Hon. Gonese the
floor.
HON. GONESE: I just want to remind the Chair that last week, the Hon. Minister was also not present and I believe that this institution must communicate to the Minister that he and his Ministry must take the business of this august House seriously and they must prepare answers. After all, this was a written question. Even if the Minister is not there, the answer should have been prepared by the Ministry officials, which means to say that it is not just the Minister but even the Ministry officials have not taken it upon themselves to prepare the answers timeously.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister of
Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment, I think you have heard the Hon. Member. These questions were asked last week and there were no responses to the questions. So it is important that your Ministry takes note of that and if possible you bring these responses next week to Parliament.
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, I asked Question
Number 1 and 2. However, I did not get any response. I did not hear what the Minister said.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is what we are talking
about. Hon. Gonese was talking about it and I have also spoken to the Minister about it. They will bring the answers next week.
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker, let me just highlight
this. These questions have been on the Order Paper since …
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have given a ruling. I do not know what you expect.
HON. WADYAJENA: Hon. Minister Zhuwao is going to my
constituency and telling the Youth Officers to chuck off. I need answers to this thing.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, the point of order …
HON. WADYAJENA: It cannot be allowed Madam Speaker. He
is bunking Parliament every day. He does not come to Parliament.
What he knows is going to my constituency.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I have already given a ruling.
HON. WADYAJENA: Yes, he goes to my constituency – [AN HON. MEMBER: To do what?] – He is telling the Youth Officers to chuck me out of the constituency – [Laughter.] – No. He must answer these questions.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Wadyajena, Hon.
Gonese has spoken – [HON. WADYAJENA: But I am not Hon.
Gonese.] – on behalf of the whole Parliament to the Ministry of Youth Development, Indigenisation and Economic Empowerment and I have made a ruling. That ruling stands. The Hon. Deputy Minister and the Minister will respond to the questions next week. The questions have been deferred to next week.
HON. MLISWA: On a point of order Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, you know we work with time
and certain things are overtaken by events. Your answer is not convincing enough because certain things are overtaken by events. When you go to a doctor and you need a surgery, it must happen within that time or else you will die. So, we are not taking Parliament seriously because there are so many things that are being overtaken by events.
The Deputy Minister being here stands for the Minister.
Hon. Mlilo just got up praising the Deputy Ministers for being here and I think he should retract that because they are here sitting down doing absolutely nothing, wasting tax payers’ money. You must be able to respond. They are just sitting there doing nothing. This House in terms of Section 107 of the Constitution is very clear Madam Speaker. You must tell them to respond to these questions. Why is he not responding to the questions? He has been appointed by the President to discharge his duties according to the Constitution. This is a waste of time and taxpayers’ money. We are letting the nation down.
We have a Member of Parliament who wants questions answered by the Minister because there is interference in his constituency. He is failing to do his job because of the Minister going there. The Minister has the time to go there but he has no time to come to Parliament and respond to issues in this Parliament. Madam Speaker, may you please firm up and get the Minister to respond. You can direct from that seat and get him to respond. If he does not, through the Standing Orders, he can be held in contempt. This is becoming a circus and I think we must stop this show.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, the ruling has
been made and it is final. The written questions are made by making research through the Ministry. The Hon. Deputy Minister Tongofa is here and he has heard it from the Hon. Members; the Hon. Members are not happy. Can you please bring the responses next week? I think we agree on that one – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.] –
HON. WADYAJENA: Madam Speaker.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I am not taking any point of
order especially in relation to the issue. I have made a ruling and it is final.
HON. WADYAJENA: I am saying you made a ruling but what will happen next week.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The Hon. Deputy Minister
will bring the answer. Hon. Deputy Minister, can you please bring the answer next week? Can you answer through the microphone – [HON. MUNENGAMI: Hon. Speaker, are you telling me there is no coordination between the Minister and his Deputy?] – Let the Hon. Deputy Minister speak! Hon. Tongofa, can you bring the responses next week?
HON. TONGOFA: Yes, I want to bring prepared responses next week.
HON. MUNENGAMI: I have got a question Hon. Speaker. Are you telling us that there is no co-ordination between the Minister and his deputy?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Munengami!
HON. MUNENGAMI: The Deputy Ministers have got the right to answer questions. Why are they now failing to answer the very same questions which you have earlier told us that they can answer the questions? If there is no co-ordination between the Minister and the Deputy Minister, we need to know as Parliament that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. Why are they here? They must be able to answer. The Minister must be able to give him the answer so that at least when he comes here, he will be able to present the papers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: I think you are out of order Hon. Munengami. You are out of order, I have given a ruling and it is final.
ADDITIONAL DOCTOR FOR MBERENGWA DISTRICT
HOSPITAL
- HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House when Mberengwa District Hospital will have an additional doctor.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Zhou for asking this question. Hon. Zhou wanted to find out when Mberengwa District Hospital is going to have a second doctor.
The scenario we have in Mberengwa District is that Mberengwa District Hospital is a new institution. The old institution was Mnene which was a mission hospital that was designated as a district hospital. As a result, the establishment for Mberengwa Hospital is two doctors. At the moment, one doctor is in position. The other doctor who is supposed to be at Mberengwa because of lack of infrastructure is currently stationed in Gokwe. However, we have allowed an establishment of about 7 doctors from Mberengwa District Hospital. If infrastructure allows, particularly housing, then we will be able to move the doctors to Mberengwa. I thank you.
*HON. ZHOU: My supplementary question is that health facilities should be decentralised to all areas. The doctor that you are talking about is the DMO but he will be doing a lot of work such as administration to manage the entire Mberengwa District. In his absence when he goes to attend to other duties, there will be no one in attendance at the hospital. Are there no other ways that you can use to ensure that you capacitate this hospital because it has been on the plan since 1957?
*HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I would want to thank Hon. Zhou for the
question. It is true that Mberengwa Hospital was constructed in 1957. It was not the designated hospital. When I went to Mberengwa at the beginning of this year, I went with the Midlands Province leadership including the Hon. Member. We agreed that the designation should move from Mnene to Mberengwa District Hospital. It is only this year that the designation has moved from Mnene to Mberengwa.
The doctors that I have talked about that are at Mberengwa are two. Of these two, one of them has a residence and the other doctor has no residence. At the present moment, the other doctor is in Gokwe. If we find accommodation for the second doctor, we have five other doctors that should go to that hospital. There is no infrastructure in terms of accommodation that will enable them to be at that hospital. In our plan for Midlands Province, Mberengwa is one of the districts that we are giving priority to come up with a proper district hospital. Those are the difficulties that we face as regards the issue of doctors at Mberengwa. I thank you.
HON. P. D. SIBANDA: My supplementary question to the Deputy
Minister following his assertions that in Mberengwa they will take five more doctors if structures are available; however, there is a general shortage of doctors in the country and now you are promising that if structures are available in Mberengwa you will supply doctors. Where are those doctors because as I speak, Binga District Hospital has got only one doctor who is a DMO out of an establishment of over three doctors? Where are those doctors and why are they waiting for structures in Mberengwa to be built before they are deployed there. Why are they not deployed in other hospitals like Binga if they are there where structures are available?
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: I want to thank the Hon. Member for
asking that very important question. I want to make a clarification here.
There is no shortage of medical doctors in Zimbabwe – [HON. MEMBERS: Inaudible interjections.]- Let me explain this. At the beginning of the year, we went to Treasury to ask for the unfreezing of 250 posts for the doctors because the doctors we had did not have employment in Zimbabwe. We had 250 newly graduated doctors who were supposed to be deployed and there was no Treasury concurrence.
When we went to Treasury this was given.
However, of the 250 doctors that were allowed only 117 have taken up these posts as others found greener pastures elsewhere and some of them want to stay in urban areas. That is the reason. If we could provide infrastructure, we have the doctors here, they just do not want to be deployed in the rural areas. I thank you.
HON. MLILO: My supplementary question to the Deputy
Minister is, has the Government policy shifted from – you get healed first and you pay later. Why am I asking this, I see that in most Government hospitals, people are not being attended to because they are carrying no money and people are being chased back home. Has the policy changed from attending to them first and payments later? Please advise on that one?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Your question is new because
here we are talking about the number of doctors. Hon. Zhou can you ask your supplementary question. He is the originator of the question.
HON. MLISWA: How many times does he make a supplementary?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: We will give you a chance. Let
him just ask.
HON. MLISWA: So, you can ask until tomorrow.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No. Maybe he just wants a
clarification. It is a point of clarification and not a supplementary question.
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules and records. Are you aware that you are being recorded in case you are forgetting?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Zhou, you may continue
with your clarification?
HON. MLISWA: In terms of the rules, how many times does the originator of a question ask a supplementary question.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is not stated. It is my
discretion.
HON. MLISWA: Is that what the rule says?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You can read the rules Hon,
Mliswa. It is my discretion.
HON. MLISWA: Which rule?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, do not try to cause commotion in the House.
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules. Which rule?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: If you have your Standing
Orders and you have a provision then state it. I am saying it is my discretion and so I have allowed Hon. Zhou to ask the clarification.
HON. MLISWA: Madam Speaker, I said the House must be guided by the rules; which Standing Order states that?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, you cannot ask
- I am supposed to be asking….
HON. MLISWA: We are a House of rules Madam Speaker. Let us not depart from rules.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: You are the one who has raised
the point of order and you have to justify yourself.
HON. MLISWA: But you are saying he said ‘supplementary’.
You originated the question. How many times?
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, no, if you have a problem
with that, just bring the provision.
HON. MLISWA: Yes, I have a problem. That is why I am talking to you Madam Speaker. We are a House of rules. Let us not depart from rules.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Where is your provision?
HON. MLISWA: Yourself, which one are you using? Guide me. I am innocent.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No, no, no, Hon Mliswa sit down.
HON. MLISWA: You are in the Chair to guide us. The Chair must know all the rules. I do not have to.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: That is why I said it is my
discretion. So you can sit down.
HON. MLISWA: Where in the Standing Orders does it say – your discretion? I am serious about this.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Mliswa, go and read your
Standing Rules and Orders.
HON. MLISWA: If you have to get me out of the House, that is okay but I want to know.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Sergeant-at-Arms can you
please get him outside the room.
HON. MLISWA: What for. You are now abusing your powers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: No I am not abusing.
HON. MLISWA: I asked which standing rule is being recorded. I will challenge this. You cannot infringe on our rights. We are Members of Parliament.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: The fact that you are an independent Member of Parliament does not mean you can challenge anyone. Where is the provision? If you are an Independent Member of Parliament, it does not mean you can challenge anyone. Where is your provision? Prove your provision.
HON. MLISWA: You must guide us. The Chair must know
exactly what is happening.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Prove your provision Hon.
Mliswa.
HON. MLISWA: You are sitting there, you must guide people as the Chair and not us.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Take him out!
Hon. Mliswa was escorted out of the House by the Sergeant-atArms.
HON. MLISWA: No, I will go out but I am going to challenge this because you are abusing your powers.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: It is okay, go and challenge anywhere. Hon. Zhou, you may continue.
*HON. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My supplementary
question to the Hon. Minister is that the doctor that you are saying has accommodation in Mberengwa, that is not correct. He is residing in Zvishavane. Can you not redeploy the doctor who is resident in Gokwe to come and reside in Zvishavane like what his colleague is doing so that he can serve Zvishavane. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would want to thank Hon. Zhou for his supplementary question. The clarification that he is seeking, as a Ministry we are saying while the hospital is there, because of the population that it serves we can then allocate doctors. We have said Mberengwa should have two doctors and that the other doctors will be there once infrastructure such as laboratories and theaters are there so that they can be meaningfully occupied. If the doctor is no longer resident in Mberengwa, I thank you because it is now an administrative problem that we are going to ensure that we take an administrative decision so that those two are at that place in time. I thank you.
COMPLETION OF VICTORIA FALLS HOSPITAL
DURAWALL ERECTION
- HON. B. MPOFU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to explain to the House when the Ministry anticipates to equip the intensive Care unit at the Victoria Falls District Hospital in view of the fact that there is an increased inflow of tourists to the resort center which may require the services of this facility.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The project was implemented under the Targeted Approach Programme which came to an end early 2014 before the project was completed. However, the project has been slotted in the Ministry’s Public Sector Investment Programme but due to limited fiscus space, we have not received funding to resume works. We will continue to lobby for its funding from Treasury. You are also encouraged to support Central Government in capital intensive projects by approaching local business people and companies to plough back to communities they operate from through corporate social responsibility.
CAPACITATION OF THE VICTORIA FALLS DISTRICT
HOSPITAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT
- HON. B. MPOFU asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House why the durawall erection at the Victoria Falls
Hospital which was commenced in 2013 still remains uncompleted.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHLD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The Ministry of
Health and Child Care has already started equipping the Intensive Care Unit with the necessary life support and monitoring equipment to manage critically ill patients. To date, ICU beds and Vital Signs Monitors are already installed in the facility courtesy of the equipment received under the Zimbabwe/China loan agreement. However, we have experienced some delays in the last disbursement of the loan and therefore, we have not yet received the patient ventilators which are also critical for the facility to start operating. Alternative funding is being mobilised in order to meet this requirement.
HON. DR. KHUPE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Zimbabwe
requires foreign currency more than anything else and tourists bring that foreign currency. So, when they go to a tourist area, the first thing that they look for is whether that area has got hospitals which are working. For me, what is important for the Ministry to do is that they must make sure that they give this particular issue a priority so that the Intensive Care Unit starts functioning because installing equipment does not mean it is functioning. So, my question to the Minister is, is the Intensive Care Unit in Victoria Falls functioning or not? You talked about ventilators but is it functioning because tourists will not come where there is no hospital which is fully functional. I thank you.
HON. DR. MUSIIWA: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to thank
the Hon. Member for raising this key important point because Victoria Falls as we all agree is a tourist hub and one of our major foreign currency earners. The current hospital at Victoria Falls has got an ICU that we could say is outdated but is functional. However, because of its new status as a tourist hub of international repute, we had envisaged as a Ministry to equip it to that level. So, it is that upper level equipment that we are looking at and it is only the ventilators that are in there, but I want to say the ICU is working as I speak now. Thank you.
ELECTRIFICATION OF MBERENGWA NORTH CONSTITUENCY
INSTITUTIONS
- HON. ZHOU asked the Minister of Energy and Power Development to indicate when the following institutions in Mberengwa
North Constituency will be electrified.
- Don Bosco Primary School in Ward 16;
- Ruvuzhe Primary School in Ward 12;
(c ) Langeni Primary School in Ward 12;
- Vhumukwani Primary School in Ward 16;
- Mawani Primary School in Ward 9;
- Chegato Primary School in Ward 15;
- Gaururo Primary School in Ward 12;
- Chaza Clinic in Ward 10;
- Neta Clinic in Ward 36;
- Maziofa Clinic in Ward 17;
- Chingezi Clinic in Ward 11;
- Shauro Clinic in Ward 1.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER
DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA): Thank you Madam
Speaker. Madam Speaker, questions have been raised by many Hon. Members here who want to know when certain institutions in their respective constituencies shall be electrified. Whilst it is the
Government’s responsibility to provide electricity to rural institutions through the Rural Electrification Fund (REF), the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations hence creating a huge backlog.
Currently, REF has been implementing the Rural Electrification
Programme in consultation with Rural District Councils and their Provincial Administrators in coming up with priority projects considering the cost of the project to be involved, equity distribution within the provinces and resource availability. In this regard, REF’s plans to implement the institutions in question are as follows:-
Name of Institutions Proposed year for electrification
Chingezi Clinic (Ward 35) Electrified
| Ruvuzhe Primary School | Scheduled for 2017 |
| Don Brosco Primary School | 2018-2023 |
| Langeni Primary School | 2018-2019 |
| Vhumukwani Primary School | 2018-2023 |
| Mawani Primary School | 2018-2023 |
| Chegato Primary School | Electrified |
| Gaururo Primary School | 2018-2023 |
| Chaza Clinic | 2018-2023 |
| Neta Clinic | 2018-2023 |
| Maziofa Clinic | 2018-2023 |
| Shauro/Mwenezi Clinic | 2018-2023 |
It must be noted however, that REF is in the process of finalizing a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification Programme. REMP is expected to be completed by the end of the year. Once produced and adopted, the document will form the basis for programming all electrification projects in rural areas including the above mentioned institutions.
Mr. Speaker Sir, once the Rural Energy Master Plan has been finalised, members may engage the Rural Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them. Thank you Madam Speaker.
*HON. T. ZHOU: Thank you Madam Speaker. My
supplementary is just to correct the first part where it is said Chingezi Clinic and Chegato Primary are now electrified. Those institutions have not been electrified. The officials lied to you. The next supplementary is that amongst these institutions, we have power nearby Hon. Minister, where we may need only two or three poles to connect. I think the timeline of 2018 -23 for the completion of your projects is too long where only two or three poles are required to connect electricity in those institutions. It is not a big project which needs to be undertaken.
*HON. SEN. MUZENDA: Thank you Madam Speaker. I am
grateful and I will make an inquiry and get to the bottom of the information that they have supplied to the effect that there is electricity when there is none. I will go to the office and make an inquiry into that.
I would want to promise Hon. Zhou that where there are electrical poles and power and there is need for a few poles to be put up, we will talk to those who are running REA to ensure that they give priority to such areas because it is not that expensive. I thank you.
ACQUISITION OF PRIMARY DOCUMENTS BY ORPHANS
- HON. S. M NDLOVU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to explain the procedures that have to be followed by orphans when they want to acquire primary documents.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. It is not easy to give orphans the primary documents. However, we have got social welfare where the District Social Welfare Officers are allowed to write letters to Home Affairs that will accompany those orphans so that our officers give them the birth certificates and identification documents. Automatically, when you have a birth certificate, you will always get your identity document. So, I advise the Hon. Member to approach the Welfare District Office that will help him with the letters that they have. There is a standard letter that they know they have to write for the orphans. I thank you Madam Speaker.
PAYMENT TOWARDS TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS ON
IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS
- HON. S. M. NDLOVU asked the Minister of Home Affairs to inform the House whether or not clients have to pay for typographical errors on the names appearing on their birth certificates and identity cards.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (HON.
MGUNI): Thank you Madam Speaker. Mostly, there are two common errors that arise when someone is applying for the document. It could be a surname spelt wrong, especially on the identity documents or a female written as a male or a date of birth not corresponding with the birth certificate. What is the source of information - it is the birth certificate. It is expected that everyone, whether you are the mother or father you should be given at least 10 minutes to run through the information on the birth certificate of your child. After you have agreed that the information is correct, then it is printed. If the mistake arises on an I.D when you presented your birth certificate which has correct information, it means it is by the office and nobody is allowed, it is illegal from our office to charge somebody when the mistake comes from our office. If that happens, please report it immediately so that we can correct the matter.
HON. BHEBHE: Madam Speaker, there are mistakes that we have seen which are almost a permanent issue in terms of birth certificate issuance. You find that because of languages, I might have a challenge in writing the Nyanja language but I am employed in Hwange where I am supposed to write a Nyanja word and I misspell that word. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that the people that are employed at the source, where they issue birth certificate, you have got the right people that are able to write the correct spellings for our languages?
HON. MGUNI: Thank you Hon. Member for your intruding question. The reality is that all Zimbabweans can be deployed anywhere. However, the individuals because this I have said in a paper that it is vital for every officer to respect the people or community where you are deployed and you need to learn the culture of that area. That is what I have told our officials in Home Affairs. Now, if something like that happens to rectify it, you do not need to be charged as well because it was an error by the person who is working under Home Affairs. We need to rectify that mistake freely. I thank you Hon. Member.
HON. BHEBHE: As a clarification, I am not talking about deployment. I am talking about the person who is supposed to - because in an area you might be having the requisite education but vernacular languages have got certain spellings that are not usual. So, what is the policy and what is Government doing to make sure that the people deliberately employed there, I am not worried about the deployment but about correcting the mistake of failing to capture the right spelling on a birth certificate.
THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Minister, can you
repeat your answer. I think he did not quite get your clarification on the issue that he is raising.
HON. MGUNI: Madam Speaker, it is exactly what I answered. He is rephrasing his question but that is what I went through. However, I want to add something here that in our Ministry due to anticorruption policies, we need to rotate people. first of all, the employment policy says you must try as much as possible to get local people due to the following reasons; accommodation, the language barrier with the locals, the use of environment within the community and to make people feel at ease and accessible. However, we have got an anticorruption policy also which says staff must rotate. You stay too much and you become used to the policy. We need to move around. So, it will be found but I am not encouraging them to spell the surnames wrongly because it is offending somebody. If you do not know the language, you have got somebody in the office who knows. Why not share with the team to come up with the correct surname. Even if it is a Tonga one, you need to write the correct surname. I am not defending them but they have to. If the mistake was done by our officers, we rectify it freely Madam Speaker.
ELECTRIFICATION OF CHIVI SOUTH CONSTITUENCY
INSTITUTIONS
- HON. VUTETE asked ask the Minister of Energy and Power
Development to inform the House when the following institutions in
Chivi South Constituency will be electrified;
- Chasiyatende Clinic Ward 23
- Runesu Primary School Ward 25
- Chief Shindi’s Homestead
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ENERGY AND POWER DEVELOPMENT (HON. SEN. MUZENDA): I thank the Hon.
Member for his question. Madam Speaker, let me start by advising the House that the Ministry of Energy and Power Development is overwhelmed by questions on when certain institutions in different constituencies shall be electrified. Government has the responsibility of providing electricity to rural institutions through the Rural
Electrification Fund (REF). However, the available resources have not been enough to meet expectations, hence creating a huge backlog.
REF’s plans are to electrify all Chief’s homestead this year, subject to availability of funds. In that regard, Chief Shindi’s homestead should be electrified this year.
Madam Speaker, Chasiyatende Clinic was built next to
Chasiyatende Primary School which has already been electrified. Electrification of the clinic will be relatively easy as the same transformer that is in use at the school will be used for the clinic. Through you Madam Speaker, we will make sure that this clinic is electrified because there is not much which is needed. REF’s plans are to electrify the clinic next year. What I need to know is exactly when but we hope that we can try to have that electrified at the beginning of the year.
Runesu Primary School should be electrified by 2019. Please take note however, that REF is in the process of finalising a Rural Energy Master Plan (REMP) which will act as a guide in implementing the Rural Electrification Program. REMP is expected to be completed by the end of the year. Once produced and adopted, the document will form the basis for programming all electrification projects in rural areas, including the above mentioned institutions. Members may then engage the Rural
Electrification Fund’s Provincial Offices for details regarding electrification of various institutions of interest to them.
WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS TO QUESTIONS WITH NOTICE
REGULATORY FRAMEWORK GOVERNING OPERATIONS OF
GENE TESTING LABORATORIES
- HON. CHAKONA asked the Minister of Health and Child Care to inform the House whether there is any regulatory framework that governs the operations of the gene testing laboratories in Zimbabwe given the rate at which they are mushrooming in the country and the risks associated with the unregulated and uncontrolled movement of genes.
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH AND CHILD CARE
(HON. DR. MUSIIWA): Thank you Mr. Speaker. The legal framework that regulates human gene testing is available and embodied in the Health Professions Act (Chapter 27:19), Section 99 as follows:
99 Health Institutions to be registered.
- (a) No person shall operate or carry on a health institution.
(b) No health practitioner shall practice his profession or calling in or from any health institution: unless he knows or has reason to believe that the health institution is registered in the register of health institutions.
- Any person who contravenes subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level seven or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
In that regard, it is the role of the Health Professions Authority of Zimbabwe to ensure that all health institutions and health practitioners are registered in compliance with the Act.
Questions with Notice were interrupted by THE TEMPORARY SPEAKER in terms of Standing Order No. 64
MOTION
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C. C. SIBANDA): Madam Speaker, I
move that Orders of the Day numbers 1 to 6 be stood over until Order of the Day Number 7 on today’s Order Paper has been dealt with.
Motion put and agreed to.
CONSIDERATION STAGE
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION BILL [H.B. 10A,
2016]
Seventh Order read: Consideration Stage: National Peace and
Reconciliation Bill [H.B. 10A, 2016].
Amendments to Clauses 8, new Clause 9, 11, 12, 15, First and
Second Schedules put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, adopted.
Third Reading: With leave, forthwith.
THIRD READING
NATIONAL PEACE AND RECONCILIATION BILL [H.B. 10A,
2016]
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE PRESIDENT
MPHOKO’S OFFICE (HON. KANENGONI): Madam Speaker, I
now move that the Bill be read the third time.
Motion put and agreed to.
Bill read the third time.
On the motion of THE MINISTER OF STATE IN VICE
PRESIDENT MNANGAGWA’S OFFICE (HON. C.C SIBANDA),
the House adjourned at Thirteen Minutes to Five o’clock p.m.